# OpenAI Expects $70 Billion in Annualized Revenue by End of 2026

An episode of [Bloomberg Intelligence](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/326301337), 9 Oct 2026, 18 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/tracking.swap.fm/track/UVBrz8bN8aM2Xe47PEPu/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/7f534b8c-9e91-429a-b102-ae3c00090c6d/fa986d04-9627-411d-aef5-b4de011687bd/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=0ad812bf-fd15-4012-a18c-ae3c00090c76

Watch Paul and Scarlet LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF. Bloomberg Intelligence hosted by Scarlet Fu and John Tucker - Matthew Bloxham, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Media and Tech Analyst, discusses top tech stories. OpenAI is expecting to reach or exceed $70 billion in annualized revenue by the end of the year, driven largely by growth in its enterprise business. SpaceX is acquiring a crucial swath of spectrum from Grain Management LLC to turn the company into a "major mobile carrier" and provide cell service to devices indoors from its Starlink network. - Sid Philip, Bloomberg Chief Correspondent for Global Aviation, discusses Delta Airlines earnings. Delta Air Lines Inc. reduced its full-year earnings outlook due to elevated jet fuel prices, expecting adjusted earnings of $5.10 to $5.60 per share in 2026. The airline expects to absorb approximately $6 billion in additional fuel costs this year compared with 2025, citing the war in the Middle East as a factor. Delta's Chief Executive Officer Ed Bastian said he expects flying demand to hold up despite higher ticket prices, noting that "the market has accepted these price points" and that travel is a priority for wealthier consumers. - Tim Craighead, Bloomberg Intelligence Global Chief Content Officer, discusses ten companies to watch for in 4Q. From elevated crude-tanker rates and slowing pizza sales to movie screens, prediction-market rulings, soft drinks and coal, BI’s 10 Focus Ideas to Watch for 4Q highlight the catalysts that can most reshape market expectations. The research showcases BI analysts' highest-conviction, differentiated fundamental views vs. consensus, including Coca-Cola, Cosco Energy and Kalshi. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios.
[0:04] Speaker 2: Podcasts.
[0:05] Speaker 1: Radio.
[0:06] Speaker 3: News.
[0:09] Speaker 4: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live
[0:13] Speaker 4: weekdays at 10 a.m. Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android
[0:16] Speaker 4: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever
[0:19] Speaker 4: you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.
[0:24] Speaker 1: We can't go five minutes without talking about AI, John Tucker.
[0:27] Speaker 1: I think it's been- Is it still AI?
[0:29] Speaker 5: I thought it was like super- Oh.
[0:30] Speaker 1: Super intelligence.
[0:31] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[0:31] Speaker 1: Well, depending who you're talking to.
[0:33] Speaker 5: Don't get on the enemies list, Scarlett.
[0:34] Speaker 1: No, no, no. Wouldn't want to do that. Let's talk
[0:36] Speaker 1: about open AI because there was some reporting that it
[0:39] Speaker 1: now expects to reach or exceed $ 70 billion in annualized
[0:44] Speaker 1: revenue by the end of the year. That's according to
[0:46] Speaker 1: people familiar with the matter. And We want to understand
[0:50] Speaker 1: where that stands based on what people were thinking previously.
[0:54] Speaker 1: Matt Bloxham is our Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Media and Tech Analyst.
[0:58] Speaker 1: He joins us now with more. And Matt, there's some
[1:00] Speaker 1: confusion here over just how much OpenAI can book in
[1:05] Speaker 1: revenue by the end of the year. Are they doing
[1:07] Speaker 1: better than we expected or worse than we expected, slower
[1:10] Speaker 1: than they expected? How are we thinking about this?
[1:13] Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a good question. I think probably the answer
[1:16] Speaker 7: is that they're more or less where people were thinking
[1:19] Speaker 7: they would be. It just depends how you're defining the revenue.
[1:24] Speaker 7: And I think a lot of the confusion came that
[1:27] Speaker 7: there had been some indications or calculations that by the
[1:30] Speaker 7: end of September, they would be at that $ 70 billion
[1:34] Speaker 7: annualized revenue run rate. And obviously, on the face of
[1:37] Speaker 7: it now, it looks like that's been shifted to But actually,
[1:42] Speaker 7: that September number was being calculated according to the anthropic
[1:48] Speaker 7: way of booking revenue. And OpenAI does things slightly differently.
[1:54] Speaker 7: And in particular, they don't. revenue that's generated through third-party
[2:01] Speaker 7: providers in the way that Anthropic does. So I think
[2:04] Speaker 7: if you were to kind of adjust on a like-for-like basis,
[2:08] Speaker 7: probably actually there isn't a discrepancy and that they're kind
[2:11] Speaker 7: of largely tracking revenue where they had been previously indicating
[2:15] Speaker 7: investors but you know I think obviously it's been a
[2:18] Speaker 7: bit of a lumpy year for open AI and I
[2:22] Speaker 7: think earlier in the year you might remember that the
[2:26] Speaker 7: pace of sales growth was perhaps running lower than previously
[2:30] Speaker 7: expected and then they were overtaken by Anthropic right at
[2:33] Speaker 7: that point Anthropic was you know much more into the
[2:36] Speaker 7: enterprise market so I think, yeah, a lot of noise there,
[2:41] Speaker 7: but probably they're kind of tracking with where their investors
[2:45] Speaker 7: probably thought they were.
[2:46] Speaker 5: Matt, just to be clear, this is the key growth
[2:48] Speaker 5: metric that we use, right?
[2:50] Speaker 3: Yes.
[2:51] Speaker 7: Yeah, mainly because it's the only kind of financial metric.
[2:55] Speaker 5: That you've got to play with.
[2:57] Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
[2:59] Speaker 7: And, you know, these companies are being valued at pretty
[3:03] Speaker 7: punchy multiples of that revenue. So if you look at OpenAI,
[3:06] Speaker 7: you know, they're looking to raise money at a total
[3:09] Speaker 7: valuation of 1.4 trillion. So that's kind of roughly 20
[3:13] Speaker 7: times that kind of forward 70 billion revenue number. And
[3:18] Speaker 7: if you look at SpaceX, I guess the only really
[3:20] Speaker 7: directly comparable traded company, that's on about 25, 26 times
[3:25] Speaker 7: forward sales. So yeah, none of these companies are profitable yet.
[3:29] Speaker 7: So you can't look at more traditional valuation metrics. So
[3:32] Speaker 7: really forward revenue growth is the only one. And these
[3:34] Speaker 7: companies are growing tremendously. top line at an exponential rate.
[3:38] Speaker 7: So that's kind of why you've got these fairly lofty multiples.
[3:43] Speaker 5: Can we move on to SpaceX since you mentioned Elon?
[3:48] Speaker 5: In that space, and I ask this question sort of jokingly,
[3:51] Speaker 5: but maybe it's not a joke. Instead of trying to
[3:54] Speaker 5: expand with the broadband telephone service, why don't they just
[4:01] Speaker 5: buy like an existing company, like T-Mobile?
[4:06] Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a good question. And I guess this is
[4:10] Speaker 7: the kind of latest generation of disruptive entrance into that
[4:13] Speaker 7: kind of mobile market. We've seen a lot of it
[4:15] Speaker 7: in Europe. I think historically, the US has been largely
[4:18] Speaker 7: immune to that. So they're kind of getting a bit
[4:20] Speaker 7: of a taste of what's happened over the last couple
[4:23] Speaker 7: of decades i mean probably the answer is that he
[4:25] Speaker 7: kind of feels that the uh the business model of
[4:28] Speaker 7: the established companies is heavy with cost and burdened by
[4:33] Speaker 7: regulation and that they can deliver services more cost effectively
[4:38] Speaker 7: and account in a new innovative way and therefore kind
[4:41] Speaker 7: of take market share so from their perspective the valuation
[4:45] Speaker 7: or the cost of buying an existing player is far
[4:48] Speaker 7: too expensive relative to what they think they need to
[4:50] Speaker 7: invest to gain a market share and a strong position
[4:54] Speaker 7: in that market.
[4:54] Speaker 1: No, that's a really good point. I mean, the money
[4:56] Speaker 1: that they do have, they're using to build out AI
[4:59] Speaker 1: data centers, not necessarily to go buy another company.
[5:02] Speaker 5: But I mean, is there enough spectrum out there if
[5:04] Speaker 5: you want to get into this business?
[5:07] Speaker 3: That's the question. Yeah.
[5:08] Speaker 7: And, you know, there's certainly time to amass them. Whether
[5:12] Speaker 7: it's enough to kind of really take on the established
[5:15] Speaker 7: players effectively, we'll have to wait and see. But I
[5:18] Speaker 7: think they see it as a kind of marginal opportunity
[5:21] Speaker 7: that is incremental revenue. on top of the core business.
[5:24] Speaker 7: And if you kind of go back a few years,
[5:27] Speaker 7: we were talking similarly about T-Mobile, way back when T-Mobile
[5:31] Speaker 7: was perceived as a kind of fairly low quality carrier,
[5:34] Speaker 7: and they kind of completely transformed their business model and
[5:36] Speaker 7: have really become a big challenger to Verizon AT & T.
[5:39] Speaker 7: And I think to some degree, this is the next
[5:41] Speaker 7: iteration of that competitive threat.
[5:44] Speaker 1: Stay with us.
[5:45] Speaker 4: More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this. You're listening
[5:52] Speaker 4: to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at
[5:56] Speaker 4: 10 a.m. Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with
[5:59] Speaker 4: the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get
[6:02] Speaker 4: your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.
[6:06] Speaker 1: Let's switch gears because it is earnings season.
[6:09] Speaker 5: It is earnings season. And you know what? When Charlie
[6:11] Speaker 5: Pellett of Bloomberg Radio flies full fare or close to it,
[6:16] Speaker 5: you know things are amiss in the airline industry or
[6:19] Speaker 5: things at least have. change significantly.
[6:21] Speaker 1: Charlie is known throughout the office for knowing how to
[6:23] Speaker 1: get a good deal. He is the guy to go
[6:26] Speaker 1: to for all of that.
[6:27] Speaker 6: I really try, but I got to tell you, it's
[6:29] Speaker 6: gotten very tough. And part of the reason is that
[6:32] Speaker 6: the airlines have also been cutting back on capacity. So
[6:35] Speaker 6: you got fewer planes flying from here to there. And
[6:38] Speaker 6: what does that do? Less seats, higher rates. And that
[6:42] Speaker 6: brings us to Delta's earnings. Sid Phillip, Bloomberg chief correspondent
[6:45] Speaker 6: for global aviation is joining us now. Is it Simply
[6:50] Speaker 6: the fact that all the discounts have gone away and
[6:52] Speaker 6: the airlines are going to get whatever they can out
[6:54] Speaker 6: of the flying public.
[6:56] Speaker 2: The flying public is key to getting them across these
[7:00] Speaker 2: higher fuel prices. And so for the, I mean, Delta
[7:03] Speaker 2: had to cut their earnings forecast for the year. They
[7:05] Speaker 2: sort of expect now to get between 510 and 560
[7:08] Speaker 2: a share in 2026, down from 650 to 750. And
[7:13] Speaker 2: that's largely down to jet fuel. And so the war
[7:17] Speaker 2: in the Middle East has driven up jet fuel prices significantly.
[7:20] Speaker 2: And airlines are desperate to find ways to sort of
[7:22] Speaker 2: mitigate that higher fuel cost. And the way they've sort
[7:26] Speaker 2: of decided to do that is through high affairs.
[7:29] Speaker 1: At one point, these airlines used to hedge their jet
[7:32] Speaker 1: fuel prices and they don't anymore. But I do recall
[7:35] Speaker 1: that Delta owned a refinery, I believe.
[7:37] Speaker 2: So Delta does own a refinery. And so they are
[7:39] Speaker 2: one of the few airlines and I think probably the
[7:41] Speaker 2: only airline in the world that has sort of been
[7:44] Speaker 2: better insulated from this because of the fact that they
[7:47] Speaker 2: own a refinery. And so some of that higher jet
[7:50] Speaker 2: fuel prices are offset by the profitability of the refinery.
[7:55] Speaker 2: At the same time, jet fuel prices have surged. And
[7:58] Speaker 2: so for airlines, they have to find a way to
[8:01] Speaker 2: pass on those higher fuel costs. And for Delta, they're
[8:05] Speaker 2: saying demand is holding up. They're saying people are willing
[8:08] Speaker 2: to pay the higher fares because travel is a priority.
[8:12] Speaker 2: Other airlines are sort of seeing less of an impact.
[8:15] Speaker 5: I've been warning ever since the big yellow airplane went away.
[8:20] Speaker 5: Is it really like the end of discount airlines altogether?
[8:24] Speaker 2: So it is that whole K-shaped economy that we keep
[8:26] Speaker 2: coming back to where Delta sees people continuing to pay
[8:31] Speaker 2: for business class seats and premium airfares, while at the
[8:35] Speaker 2: bottom end of the curve, people are sort of being
[8:38] Speaker 2: more astute about where they fly to, how much they
[8:41] Speaker 2: spend on travel, and cutting back where they need to.
[8:44] Speaker 2: There is that skew in the market where Delta and United,
[8:48] Speaker 2: which went all in on premium travel, are seeing demand
[8:52] Speaker 2: continue to sort of hold up, whereas other carriers that
[8:55] Speaker 2: are sort of more exposed to price sensitive customers are
[8:58] Speaker 2: seeing some sort of demand waning.
[9:00] Speaker 1: I recently flew from California back to New York, and
[9:03] Speaker 1: I noticed that the first third of the airplane was
[9:06] Speaker 1: first class. The second third of the airplane was business class.
[9:09] Speaker 1: And the last third was economy. I mean, economy used
[9:12] Speaker 1: to be two thirds.
[9:12] Speaker 5: Oh, economy is like this big now.
[9:14] Speaker 1: Yeah. It's tiny. And we're seeing other airlines kind of
[9:18] Speaker 1: move in the same direction of banking all on premium products. passengers, right?
[9:22] Speaker 1: I mean, Southwest now makes you pay for your checked
[9:26] Speaker 1: in luggage and they have launched a premium credit card.
[9:29] Speaker 1: JetBlue has a first class that they just launched as well.
[9:33] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[9:33] Speaker 2: So every airline is looking to sort of lean on
[9:36] Speaker 2: those higher paying customers. So we're seeing airlines, including JetBlue
[9:40] Speaker 2: and others launching new lounges, premium cabins, talking about live
[9:45] Speaker 2: flat seats. And so we're seeing airlines really sort of
[9:49] Speaker 2: catering to that premium customer who can afford to pay
[9:52] Speaker 2: those higher prices at a time when price-sensitive customers are saying,
[9:56] Speaker 2: maybe I won't fly this Thanksgiving or this Christmas.
[10:00] Speaker 5: And relying on those premium customers who should get back
[10:02] Speaker 5: their earnings. How are they doing? Is it working? It
[10:05] Speaker 5: seems to be working.
[10:06] Speaker 2: Delta today talked about how they are 60% booked for December.
[10:10] Speaker 2: They're seeing bookings continuing to be strong. And so we're
[10:14] Speaker 2: seeing that the airlines are saying that premium customers are
[10:17] Speaker 2: still feeling good about their spending.
[10:20] Speaker 1: Charlie Pellett, you have lots of different credit cards. You
[10:23] Speaker 1: know how to game these programs. Is it as easy
[10:27] Speaker 1: as it was to book flights using those points?
[10:30] Speaker 6: Well, there are two answers there. The answer is yes,
[10:33] Speaker 6: it is, Scarlett, but you're going to be paying a
[10:36] Speaker 6: lot more. So what they've done is it used to
[10:38] Speaker 6: be back in the day, 20,000 points got you a ticket.
[10:41] Speaker 6: Then they upped it to 25,000. And now what they
[10:44] Speaker 6: have done is they have introduced floating requirements. So, yeah,
[10:47] Speaker 6: you can always get a ticket to Miami right around
[10:50] Speaker 6: the holidays, but it used to be a 25,000-point redemption,
[10:55] Speaker 6: but now it might be 50,000 points or even more
[10:59] Speaker 6: just to get those tickets at peak times. So it's
[11:03] Speaker 6: kind of an economist's answer, wasn't it? Yes and no.
[11:06] Speaker 5: Sid, this is a guy who had the stewardess make
[11:09] Speaker 5: an announcement on the aircraft with his then-fiancée to propose
[11:13] Speaker 5: to her on the aircraft.
[11:14] Speaker 6: Yeah, those are, you know, I've done a lot of
[11:17] Speaker 6: crazy things over the years. I mean, I've flown into
[11:19] Speaker 6: a lot of airports. It was sweet and lovely. I
[11:23] Speaker 6: flew all the way to Nepal for three nights in
[11:25] Speaker 6: Nepal to fly into the world's most dangerous airport.
[11:27] Speaker 5: I mean, Lukla. What an experience that was.
[11:28] Speaker 6: Yeah, you know it well. Me and you, we ought
[11:30] Speaker 6: to be airplane buddies taking these wild trips, doing things
[11:33] Speaker 6: like that.
[11:33] Speaker 5: We should.
[11:34] Speaker 1: You guys should do a show on that. I'd watch it.
[11:37] Speaker 5: Yeah, there you go. Edge of your seat.
[11:40] Speaker 1: Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
[11:47] Speaker 4: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
[11:51] Speaker 4: weekdays at 10 a.m. Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android
[11:54] Speaker 4: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever
[11:58] Speaker 4: you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.
[12:02] Speaker 5: Let's talk about equities. And, you know, somebody puts out
[12:05] Speaker 5: a list of the 10 companies to watch for the
[12:08] Speaker 5: fourth quarter. Let's get right to them. Joining us on
[12:11] Speaker 5: Zoom from London, Bloomberg's Tim Craighead, our global chief content officer.
[12:17] Speaker 5: How do you put this list together?
[12:18] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's great to be here. So this is an
[12:23] Speaker 3: ongoing every quarter project. The year ahead, it's 50 as
[12:28] Speaker 3: opposed to 10 companies. And it's all based off of
[12:32] Speaker 3: filtering down our set of focus ideas to ones that
[12:36] Speaker 3: really make sense to zero in on, in this case,
[12:40] Speaker 3: in the fourth quarter. And focus ideas, just as a reminder,
[12:45] Speaker 3: these are companies where our analysts have a really strong view,
[12:49] Speaker 3: a high conviction view that they think is different from
[12:52] Speaker 3: what everybody thinks, whether it be consensus expectations or management
[12:56] Speaker 3: guidance or And there's something coming up that's going to
[12:59] Speaker 3: change the market's mentality. And so, yeah, these are 10,
[13:04] Speaker 3: we think, quite pertinent, relevant ideas now.
[13:07] Speaker 1: Okay. So there's a catalyst for each of these companies
[13:10] Speaker 1: that you have identified. Let's talk about Coca-Cola, the soft
[13:14] Speaker 1: drink maker. What's the catalyst for Coca-Cola?
[13:17] Speaker 3: So this is somewhat unusual in that this isn't so
[13:23] Speaker 3: much about what's going on with Coca-Cola and it's drinks business.
[13:31] Speaker 3: This is actually about a long-running fight with the Internal
[13:35] Speaker 3: Revenue Service, where the IRS is saying that the company
[13:41] Speaker 3: has got some back taxes that they need to pay,
[13:47] Speaker 3: given the way that they've accounted for various aspects of
[13:50] Speaker 3: their business. And the U.S. Court of Appeals in the
[13:54] Speaker 3: 11th Circuit should decide whether this multi-billion dollar tax bill
[14:02] Speaker 3: is going to go through as the IRS expects. We
[14:07] Speaker 3: think that there's a good chance it will go against
[14:09] Speaker 3: Koch and will lead to permanently higher tax costs.
[14:13] Speaker 5: There was a time, it wasn't that long ago, where
[14:17] Speaker 5: I believe Coca-Cola was considered to be the number one
[14:22] Speaker 5: generator of wealth in terms of stocks.
[14:26] Speaker 3: Interesting, huh?
[14:27] Speaker 5: Yeah. Next up.
[14:28] Speaker 3: Times change.
[14:30] Speaker 5: If I got this correctly, is it an individual stock
[14:33] Speaker 5: or a sector? But coal?
[14:37] Speaker 3: So China Coal is about a company. And it's, you know,
[14:42] Speaker 3: China Coal Energy is the company. And this is a,
[14:46] Speaker 3: you know, it's a company that produces coal in China. And,
[14:52] Speaker 3: you know, yeah, it's a business that's alive and well
[14:55] Speaker 3: in China, although they are moving more and more towards,
[14:59] Speaker 3: you know, electricity, just like everybody is. But you'd think
[15:04] Speaker 3: that they're in a good spot, in a way, because
[15:07] Speaker 3: of what's transpired in the that are important for China,
[15:13] Speaker 3: and they'd have to lean back on coal. That should
[15:16] Speaker 3: be good. But these guys have had an accident in
[15:22] Speaker 3: their main production area that has really clamped on their production.
[15:29] Speaker 3: It's holding them back from taking advantage of what otherwise
[15:33] Speaker 3: would have been something of an opportunity. And we think
[15:36] Speaker 3: that there's, you know, ongoing constraint and expectations are too
[15:41] Speaker 3: high for a recovery given the backdrop because of this
[15:45] Speaker 3: constraint on their production.
[15:48] Speaker 6: Okay.
[15:48] Speaker 3: So that's a nuanced story.
[15:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
[15:52] Speaker 4: Absolutely.
[15:53] Speaker 1: Another company you point out to watch for, but maybe
[15:56] Speaker 1: for negative reasons as well, is Travis Perkins.
[16:00] Speaker 3: Yeah. So Travis Perkins is a building supply company over
[16:06] Speaker 3: here in the UK. And as a homeowner, unfortunately, I
[16:11] Speaker 3: have to say that the housing market is somewhat under
[16:14] Speaker 3: pressure over here, as it is in various places. And
[16:19] Speaker 3: certainly higher interest rates is creating further pressure on it
[16:24] Speaker 3: as well. It's just not a great environment to be
[16:26] Speaker 3: a building materials supplier, yet expectations have been there for
[16:30] Speaker 3: something of a recovery. We think they're up for further disappointment.
[16:35] Speaker 3: And as we continue to see elevated interest rates, it's
[16:38] Speaker 3: just making the situation worse.
[16:40] Speaker 5: As we close out, I've got a minute left or so,
[16:42] Speaker 5: is there just a unifying theme that connects all these
[16:46] Speaker 5: that investors should be aware of? Yeah.
[16:50] Speaker 3: You know, I think through some of these elements, there's
[16:53] Speaker 3: clearly a consumer aspect. I mean, there is an underlying
[16:58] Speaker 3: element to that with Coke, but I bring it back
[17:00] Speaker 3: to some of the other U.S. ideas we have in here.
[17:03] Speaker 3: If you have a high-end product that's doing well, that
[17:08] Speaker 3: seems to be doing fine. IMAX, for example, you know,
[17:11] Speaker 3: they're on the heels of the Odyssey success. And we
[17:16] Speaker 3: think that there's further upside to those estimates. If you
[17:19] Speaker 3: are facing, however, the lower end of the market, then
[17:26] Speaker 3: it's problematic. That plays through over here in terms of
[17:28] Speaker 3: the housing business, but it also impacts Domino's Pizza, which
[17:32] Speaker 3: on the one hand is going against some pretty tough
[17:35] Speaker 3: comparisons last year. But there's also this issue of a
[17:40] Speaker 3: lot of competition and people downsizing what they're willing to purchase.
[17:43] Speaker 3: So it's pressuring Domino's.
[17:45] Speaker 4: This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
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