# The Beloved Judy Blume

An episode of [Stuff You Should Know](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/278981407), 28 Jul 2026, 45 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/a91018a4-ea4f-4130-bf55-ae270180c327/a2aaa39d-5487-415b-9495-b48e00e60c02/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=44710ecc-10bb-48d1-93c7-ae270180c33e

Judy Blume is more than an author. She's a legend in teen literature for her frank and honest portrayals of adolescence. Today we pay tribute to her. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:01] Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.
[0:11] Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's
[0:14] Speaker 2: Chuck and it's just us. Jerry's on vacation actually as usual,
[0:19] Speaker 2: and this is stuff.
[0:20] Speaker 1: You should not. Have you read any Judy Bloom books.
[0:26] Speaker 2: Yes, I've read a bunch of them. I was going
[0:27] Speaker 2: down the list checking off the ones I've read.
[0:29] Speaker 1: Oh, interesting, me too. I had a feeling you hadn't
[0:32] Speaker 1: for some.
[0:32] Speaker 2: Reason, because I'm soulless and robotic.
[0:37] Speaker 1: Meet Mark. Yeah, I bet you. We've read a lot
[0:41] Speaker 1: of the same one. So let's go over that.
[0:42] Speaker 2: I bet too. All right, now, okay, you ready, Yeah,
[0:45] Speaker 2: we'll say them all at the same time.
[0:47] Speaker 1: Now you say yours, and I'll say whether that's one
[0:49] Speaker 1: of mine?
[0:50] Speaker 2: All right?
[0:51] Speaker 1: Freckle Juice did not read that one?
[0:53] Speaker 2: I did? It was a good one. I'm going to
[0:56] Speaker 2: say that about all of them. Tales of a fourth
[0:58] Speaker 2: grade nothing.
[0:58] Speaker 1: I did read that.
[1:00] Speaker 2: I did two, but I didn't remember what that was about,
[1:02] Speaker 2: and I didn't go look it up. Okay, otherwise known
[1:06] Speaker 2: as Sheila the Great.
[1:07] Speaker 1: I read that.
[1:08] Speaker 2: That was a good one, blubbers the one aside from
[1:11] Speaker 2: are you there? God? It's me, Margaret that I remember
[1:14] Speaker 2: the most.
[1:14] Speaker 1: Yeah, I read both of those, and then I think
[1:17] Speaker 1: that was it for me, all right. I think I
[1:20] Speaker 1: read all the I read. Then again, maybe I won't, Okay,
[1:24] Speaker 1: And I also read Superfudge.
[1:28] Speaker 2: Oh I did too. I'm sorry I did too. I
[1:30] Speaker 2: read Superfudge.
[1:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think I read six or seven of these.
[1:34] Speaker 2: And I had a question mark next to then again,
[1:36] Speaker 2: maybe I won't. I may have read that one, or
[1:38] Speaker 2: I just may have been aware of it.
[1:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, And then the one what is it? Tiger Eyes?
[1:43] Speaker 1: Sounded familiar, but I'm not sure if I read those,
[1:46] Speaker 1: but I think it, like, you know. One reason I
[1:47] Speaker 1: wanted to ask because I think Judy Bloom and her
[1:50] Speaker 1: books get associated with young girls. Sure, and I was like,
[1:54] Speaker 1: was I an outlier because I read six or seven
[1:56] Speaker 1: Judy Bloom books and like loved them all? Or you know,
[1:59] Speaker 1: maybe both out liars.
[2:01] Speaker 2: I don't think so. I don't remember being particularly odd
[2:04] Speaker 2: or weird, at least in my elementary school, so the
[2:07] Speaker 2: fact that you did too, I would guess it was
[2:10] Speaker 2: probably fairly normal. I also read a lot of Ramona
[2:13] Speaker 2: Quimby books. Did you read any of those? Now?
[2:15] Speaker 1: I never read those.
[2:16] Speaker 2: I knew that the day I became at an adolescent,
[2:20] Speaker 2: I guess, uh huh, because that was halfway through a
[2:23] Speaker 2: Ramona Quimby book, You're Seven, and I realized I didn't
[2:26] Speaker 2: give a good damn what was about to come next
[2:30] Speaker 2: in Ramona Quimby's life. All of a.
[2:31] Speaker 1: Sudden, Oh no, that was it for me and Ramona.
[2:35] Speaker 2: I always have fond memories of her. Those were great
[2:38] Speaker 2: fun books.
[2:39] Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think it's cool that we both read
[2:40] Speaker 1: this stuff that our parents were. My suspicion is that
[2:45] Speaker 1: it was the same in my house, is that they
[2:47] Speaker 1: weren't paying attention enough, probably to say, hey, should you
[2:50] Speaker 1: be reading this book about, you know, a young girl
[2:53] Speaker 1: going through menstruation and discovering her sexual awakening?
[2:57] Speaker 2: Right exactly? My parents paid enough attention. I remember my
[3:00] Speaker 2: dad like some tense conversations I barely overheard. The only
[3:04] Speaker 2: word I could make out was fruity.
[3:07] Speaker 1: Oh man, goodness me.
[3:09] Speaker 2: He was a real jerk. Grow now.
[3:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, well, here we are, though, well adjusted and kicking
[3:15] Speaker 1: button life.
[3:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's great. Is I can't wait to
[3:18] Speaker 2: get the one or two emails really like that was
[3:20] Speaker 2: really mean of your dad to call.
[3:22] Speaker 1: You fruity, right, yeah, get some support.
[3:25] Speaker 2: Right, he didn't. Really everybody, is what I'm trying to say. Okay,
[3:29] Speaker 2: I think you make a great point though, Chuck, Like
[3:31] Speaker 2: I think it's whether it's normal or not. I feel
[3:35] Speaker 2: like it was great that we read those books. They
[3:37] Speaker 2: were great books to start with, totally, but also like,
[3:41] Speaker 2: it's just so rare for an adult to have that
[3:44] Speaker 2: level of insight into what it's like to be a
[3:47] Speaker 2: kid growing into well an adolescent again, right, that's just
[3:53] Speaker 2: people have memories of that. I have memories of it,
[3:55] Speaker 2: but the vibe, the feeling and being able to convey
[3:58] Speaker 2: it again, that is long gone.
[4:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally agree.
[4:02] Speaker 2: So she was good at what she did and she
[4:05] Speaker 2: was a trailblazing pioneer of the first kind.
[4:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And when you say was Judy Bloom amazingly
[4:15] Speaker 1: is still with us in her late eighties, living down
[4:18] Speaker 1: in Key West, but I think she's basically given up writing.
[4:23] Speaker 1: She hasn't put out a book in a while. She
[4:25] Speaker 1: does run a bookstore down in Key West, which I
[4:28] Speaker 1: would love to go to sometime.
[4:30] Speaker 2: I wish I had known the one time I went
[4:32] Speaker 2: to Key West, because I definitely would have popped in
[4:34] Speaker 2: to see her.
[4:34] Speaker 1: Yeah, so today we salute Judy Bloom. And I guess
[4:37] Speaker 1: let's go back to her childhood. Sure, because she was
[4:41] Speaker 1: born Judith Marcia Sussman on February second, nineteen thirty eight
[4:46] Speaker 1: in Elizabeth, New Jersey, just outside of New York, and
[4:50] Speaker 1: grew up in a pretty just normal, middle class Jewish family.
[4:54] Speaker 1: Her dad was a dentist, her mom was a homemaker,
[4:57] Speaker 1: and she you know, seemed to have a I was
[5:01] Speaker 1: about to say, a happy life. But she was a
[5:04] Speaker 1: fraught kid about some stuff. But not because she had
[5:07] Speaker 1: like some awful life. It was a pretty normal life,
[5:09] Speaker 1: but a lot of angst.
[5:10] Speaker 2: It seems like, yeah, I'm fairly well earned. I feel like, yeah,
[5:16] Speaker 2: for sure, but not because her family dynamic was screwed up.
[5:19] Speaker 2: It was like her father was her confidant. Yeah, her
[5:23] Speaker 2: entire childhood sounds like a really good father. I didn't
[5:27] Speaker 2: get the impression that her mom was anything terrible, but
[5:31] Speaker 2: I think her father played a more prominent role.
[5:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think such a But what her.
[5:35] Speaker 2: Mom gave her was the gift of loving to read,
[5:39] Speaker 2: which is man, there are a few gifts you can
[5:42] Speaker 2: give a kid better than.
[5:43] Speaker 1: That, you know, yeah, no kidding. And I know you
[5:45] Speaker 1: and I have talked about this privately, but you know,
[5:47] Speaker 1: when Ruby was diagnosed with dyslexia, we were both as
[5:51] Speaker 1: avid readers, just you know, sort of afraid that meant
[5:54] Speaker 1: she wouldn't have that joy. And she's gotten over it
[5:57] Speaker 1: to the point where she's an avid reader and it
[5:59] Speaker 1: just makes it so happy. And you always wonder what
[6:02] Speaker 1: your kid's going to be like. And when I was
[6:03] Speaker 1: reading about young Judy Bloom making up stories like life
[6:08] Speaker 1: stories and backstories for her dolls and playthings and creating
[6:11] Speaker 1: characters and scenarios, like Ruby does a lot of that stuff,
[6:15] Speaker 1: and I'm always wondering if, like you know, she'd writes
[6:18] Speaker 1: stories and stuff like is that her path? And like
[6:21] Speaker 1: who knows, But you know, just like Judy Bloom, they
[6:24] Speaker 1: both had these active or have these active kind of
[6:29] Speaker 1: make believe lives, which I think is super cool and
[6:32] Speaker 1: healthy and awesome.
[6:34] Speaker 2: Yeah. The thing that stuck out to me was that
[6:36] Speaker 2: she would take piano lessons and then whilst she was
[6:39] Speaker 2: practicing the piano herself, she in her head she was
[6:43] Speaker 2: teaching imaginary students like characters. I love that she was
[6:47] Speaker 2: giving them piano lessons yeah, and you know that's pretty
[6:50] Speaker 2: cool in and of itself. She actually kept a journal
[6:52] Speaker 2: a notebook to chart their progress the imaginary student. She
[6:56] Speaker 2: was teaching progress in her notebook, like that's how we're
[7:00] Speaker 2: find her imagination was as far as character development goes
[7:04] Speaker 2: as a kid.
[7:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's super cool. And that reminded me and again
[7:09] Speaker 1: not to just keep bringing Ruby into it. But I
[7:11] Speaker 1: know you're a fan, so you don't mind. Yeah. But
[7:14] Speaker 1: when I took her to her first Hawks game when
[7:16] Speaker 1: she was like eight or nine, maybe she sat there
[7:21] Speaker 1: and I don't think I've told this before, but she
[7:23] Speaker 1: I looked and she brought her a little notebook like
[7:24] Speaker 1: she always does, just in case she gets bored, and
[7:26] Speaker 1: she was keeping notes. And finally was like, what are
[7:28] Speaker 1: you noting? And she had noted all the players and
[7:32] Speaker 1: all of their shoes and what brand and what color
[7:34] Speaker 1: shoes they had, and what number they were and everything.
[7:37] Speaker 1: And I just thought, what an interesting thing to do that.
[7:41] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I was never into that kind of
[7:44] Speaker 2: thing now, so I yeah, I feel like I'm definitely
[7:47] Speaker 2: looking at it from the outside in.
[7:49] Speaker 1: Yeah. I just you know, when you're a parent, you're
[7:51] Speaker 1: always like, what does that mean? And like maybe one
[7:54] Speaker 1: day I'll look back and go like, oh it all
[7:55] Speaker 1: makes sense now or whatever. Sure, maybe she'll be an
[7:58] Speaker 1: inventory or something. Yeah, what's it called when you manage.
[8:06] Speaker 2: Logistics?
[8:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, logistics.
[8:08] Speaker 2: She'll be in charge of logistics of moving basketball players
[8:11] Speaker 2: around the country. Great, Yeah that's cool. That's a great story.
[8:16] Speaker 2: And yeah, I can't quite get it either. I mean,
[8:19] Speaker 2: is it like a calming thing?
[8:21] Speaker 1: I don't know, I have no idea.
[8:23] Speaker 2: Well, let me know when you figure it out.
[8:26] Speaker 1: Like twenty years probably.
[8:28] Speaker 2: So even though Judy Bloom was like she came up
[8:33] Speaker 2: with characters and had a very rich internal life as
[8:38] Speaker 2: a kid, she apparently never particularly aspired to be a writer.
[8:42] Speaker 2: She ended up wanting to find essentially like a creative
[8:46] Speaker 2: outlet later on, as we'll see. But as a kid
[8:49] Speaker 2: that wasn't she wouldn't like, that's what I'm going to
[8:51] Speaker 2: be as a writer. And so that comes later in
[8:55] Speaker 2: between then and now. But the opposite, so now would
[9:01] Speaker 2: be while she was a child, then would be as
[9:04] Speaker 2: she's grown up a little more. Oh man, you said
[9:08] Speaker 2: that she had a kind of a fraught childhood, and
[9:10] Speaker 2: as a result of that, she definitely suffered from anxiety
[9:13] Speaker 2: as a kid. And this is like nineteen fifties anxiety,
[9:16] Speaker 2: so like the real deal kind where you saw like
[9:18] Speaker 2: a psychoanalyst sometimes.
[9:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly starting out in the forties when you're a
[9:23] Speaker 1: little kid, especially a Jewish American kid, and World War
[9:26] Speaker 1: II is going around, there was a big preoccupation in
[9:30] Speaker 1: her family and you know, every probably Jewish American kid's
[9:32] Speaker 1: life about what was going on overseas, afraid that could
[9:36] Speaker 1: happen to them and their family, that kind of thing.
[9:39] Speaker 1: And then really, this is so sad. She was always
[9:41] Speaker 1: just worried about her father dying because a couple of
[9:44] Speaker 1: her uncles died when they were younger, in their early
[9:47] Speaker 1: forties of heart attacks I guess heart failure. Yeah, and
[9:51] Speaker 1: she was just always worried about her dad, and you
[9:54] Speaker 1: know doing kid stuff like you know, making a deal
[9:57] Speaker 1: with God, like hey, if I ace this test, it'll
[10:00] Speaker 1: help my dad live. And just it's just so sort
[10:03] Speaker 1: of heartbreaking to hear that stuff.
[10:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, and if that sounds a little familiar, then you
[10:07] Speaker 2: probably have read are you there, God, it's me Margaret. Yeah.
[10:11] Speaker 2: So yeah, that was a big deal. Like that kind
[10:13] Speaker 2: of guided her outlook, and that's a lot to worry
[10:17] Speaker 2: about as a little kid, right, totally. H So another
[10:21] Speaker 2: thing that happened. Remember I said her dad was like
[10:22] Speaker 2: one of her biggest, most prominent figures in her entire
[10:26] Speaker 2: life as a kid. There were two years where she
[10:30] Speaker 2: and her mom and brother moved to Miami Beach because
[10:33] Speaker 2: her brother had suffered some sort of chronic illness I believe,
[10:38] Speaker 2: and they were like, go to Miami apparently the one
[10:40] Speaker 2: hundred and ten percent humidity will be good.
[10:43] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[10:44] Speaker 2: And her father stayed back in Elizabeth, New Jersey because
[10:46] Speaker 2: he was a dentist, so he had to stay dentisting. Yeah,
[10:52] Speaker 2: and that separation apparently was so significant that she developed
[10:56] Speaker 2: an obsessive compulsive disorder. Only would she, like you said,
[11:01] Speaker 2: kind of make deals with God. She would, you know,
[11:05] Speaker 2: maybe turn a door knob handle X number of times,
[11:07] Speaker 2: and as long as she remembered to do that, her
[11:09] Speaker 2: father would stay alive. Like that kind of stuff. Again,
[11:12] Speaker 2: we're talking about a kid who's less than ten years old.
[11:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a lot to take on. It just made
[11:19] Speaker 1: me real sad to hear that. But she also had
[11:22] Speaker 1: a few and you know, as we'll see, she wrote
[11:25] Speaker 1: a lot about stuff that she knew either places where
[11:28] Speaker 1: she lived, or about things that were you know, like
[11:30] Speaker 1: you said, and are you there, God it to me
[11:32] Speaker 1: Margaret kind of writing about that. She also wrote later
[11:35] Speaker 1: in life about a family who experienced these three plane
[11:39] Speaker 1: crashes sort of near their house that affected their household,
[11:42] Speaker 1: and that really happened to her, right.
[11:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, over the course of fifty eight days,
[11:47] Speaker 2: less than two months, there were three separate plane crashes
[11:52] Speaker 2: from the Newark Airport, which apparently was like right there
[11:56] Speaker 2: that the runways were pointed essentially at Elizabeth. Yeah, and
[12:01] Speaker 2: a hundred people died from those three crashes, eleven of
[12:06] Speaker 2: which were like neighbors, friends and neighbors, like townfolk from
[12:10] Speaker 2: Elizabeth who had been on the ground in the wrong
[12:12] Speaker 2: place at the wrong time.
[12:14] Speaker 1: Yeah. So that's obviously gonna you know, color young kids, psyche,
[12:18] Speaker 1: you know for sure.
[12:19] Speaker 2: I mean, what are the odds of something like that happening.
[12:23] Speaker 2: I guess it was bad enough that they closed the
[12:25] Speaker 2: Newark Airport for a year and rebuilt the runway so
[12:28] Speaker 2: that they weren't pointed at Elizabeth anymore.
[12:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's terrible.
[12:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, So all those things together certainly like shaped her childhood,
[12:38] Speaker 2: her pre adolescence.
[12:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think so.
[12:41] Speaker 2: Yeah, and then she like kind of grew up, like
[12:44] Speaker 2: her life was pretty normal nineteen fifties early nineteen sixties
[12:49] Speaker 2: type life, although she was a little more on the
[12:52] Speaker 2: alternative side. It looks like it sounds like she was
[12:54] Speaker 2: a bit of a beatnik.
[12:56] Speaker 1: Yeah. I think she gravitated towards that, like when she graduated,
[12:59] Speaker 1: and she graduated, you know, high school, at the top
[13:01] Speaker 1: of her class, and then went to NYU, and then
[13:03] Speaker 1: there in the fifties at NYU, it sounds like she
[13:05] Speaker 1: was definitely kind of slanted toward that bohemian culture and
[13:09] Speaker 1: drawn to the beatnik types.
[13:10] Speaker 2: Yes, she was hanging with Llewell and Davis.
[13:15] Speaker 1: Should we take a break, Yeah, all right, we'll take
[13:17] Speaker 1: an earlier break. It seems like a good college seems
[13:20] Speaker 1: like a good breaking point to me. Oh, I agree,
[13:22] Speaker 1: all right, we'll be right back.
[13:42] Speaker 2: So we're back, Chuck and Judy Bloom is stuck in
[13:45] Speaker 2: college because we took an ad break, and we're going
[13:47] Speaker 2: to dislodge her. She's a junior. It's nineteen fifty nine.
[13:52] Speaker 2: She meets a guy named John Bloom. She was twenty
[13:56] Speaker 2: one at the time. He would have been twenty seven. Yeah,
[14:00] Speaker 2: he was already like well out of school, established himself
[14:02] Speaker 2: as a lawyer, and he said, hey, tootz, how about
[14:06] Speaker 2: we get married. And she liked that idea, so they
[14:10] Speaker 2: got engaged and they got married that year. Sadly, very
[14:14] Speaker 2: very sadly. I'm sure this hit her quite hard. Her
[14:16] Speaker 2: father wasn't there to walk her down the aisle because
[14:18] Speaker 2: like a month before the wedding he died from a
[14:21] Speaker 2: heart attack. He wasn't early forties, but he was early
[14:25] Speaker 2: mid fifties, which is still very very young.
[14:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean to see your fear realize like that,
[14:31] Speaker 1: like the one thing that she was worried about, specifically
[14:33] Speaker 1: the heart attack too, must have been devastating. So she
[14:38] Speaker 1: gets married. In nineteen sixty one, she grad graduated from
[14:42] Speaker 1: NYU with a degree in early childhood education, and the
[14:46] Speaker 1: plan was to sort of you know, you know, you
[14:48] Speaker 1: mentioned earlier she didn't want to be a writer necessarily,
[14:51] Speaker 1: and you know, one of the big reasons, because it
[14:53] Speaker 1: is in the nineteen forties and early nineteen fifties when
[14:56] Speaker 1: she was a kid, that just wasn't an avenue that
[14:59] Speaker 1: was as open to young women. It's a big reason
[15:02] Speaker 1: that se Hinton kept the initials se Hinton when she
[15:06] Speaker 1: wrote The Outsiders and all those books.
[15:08] Speaker 2: You know, I didn't know se Hinton was a woman.
[15:12] Speaker 1: Are you serious?
[15:13] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's serious.
[15:14] Speaker 1: Yeah. I thought c Hinton was a teenage girl when
[15:17] Speaker 1: she wrote The Outsiders.
[15:19] Speaker 2: I had no idea. Wow, yeah, yeah, I thought that
[15:23] Speaker 2: was Steve and Edie Hinton.
[15:26] Speaker 1: That's why she did it. I mean it worked. I
[15:28] Speaker 1: guess she's like, I got to be able to fool
[15:29] Speaker 1: Josh Clark.
[15:30] Speaker 2: No, but I mean like, I had no idea. This
[15:33] Speaker 2: is literally the first time I'm hearing that. It's not
[15:35] Speaker 2: even like, oh that vaguely rings a bell. I have
[15:38] Speaker 2: never heard that in my entire life.
[15:40] Speaker 1: Well, there you have it. She was a teenage girl
[15:42] Speaker 1: in high school when she wrote The Outsiders.
[15:43] Speaker 2: That's really cool.
[15:44] Speaker 1: But again, that's why she kept the name se Hinton
[15:47] Speaker 1: because just publishing wasn't so open to young women writing books.
[15:50] Speaker 1: So that's why Judy Bloom didn't. And when she was
[15:54] Speaker 1: graduating college, she was just sort of on that track.
[15:57] Speaker 1: She was like, I'm going to get my degree, I'm
[15:58] Speaker 1: going to get married, which I already did before I graduated.
[16:01] Speaker 1: I'm gonna have kids and be a homemaker, and within
[16:05] Speaker 1: a couple of years of graduating, she had a daughter
[16:07] Speaker 1: named Randy Lee and then a son named Lawrence Andrew
[16:10] Speaker 1: and was you know, very happily it seems, back in
[16:12] Speaker 1: the New Jersey suburbs. Yep, while her husband was attorneying.
[16:17] Speaker 2: Yes, so I had said though that she was. She
[16:22] Speaker 2: started writing because she was like, I need to do
[16:24] Speaker 2: something else besides just like raise kids and sit at
[16:27] Speaker 2: home and dust. That just was not enough to fulfill
[16:31] Speaker 2: her as a person. So once both of her kids
[16:34] Speaker 2: were in preschool, she was like, I'll write some books
[16:38] Speaker 2: for my kids, or at least my kids friends if
[16:40] Speaker 2: the kids don't like it, she started creating picture books.
[16:44] Speaker 2: Essentially the first one she came up was, or at
[16:47] Speaker 2: least the first one. Her first published book was a
[16:50] Speaker 2: children's picture book called The One in the Middle is
[16:52] Speaker 2: the Green Kangaroo, which is a great, great children's book name.
[16:58] Speaker 2: But that didn't come like easy. That wasn't like a
[17:01] Speaker 2: you know, first try. And she she got her big break.
[17:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's I think she went a couple
[17:08] Speaker 1: of years, like two two and a half years, getting
[17:10] Speaker 1: you know, rejection letter after rejection letter. I think they
[17:14] Speaker 1: dug who helped us with this one.
[17:16] Speaker 2: Julia.
[17:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, Julia found that she was getting like six no
[17:20] Speaker 1: letters per week before she became like an overnight success.
[17:24] Speaker 1: You know, that's how the media like tends to view
[17:26] Speaker 1: those things. But it seems like the big turning point
[17:30] Speaker 1: was when she took a continuing ed class at NYU
[17:34] Speaker 1: in the late sixties, like a writing class for like
[17:37] Speaker 1: tween writing and teen writing. And she told NPR a
[17:41] Speaker 1: few years ago that it was like such a monumental
[17:44] Speaker 1: thing for her to like to know that she was
[17:47] Speaker 1: going to leave every Monday, leave her family, go to
[17:50] Speaker 1: the bus to New York City, and like her husband
[17:53] Speaker 1: was going to feed the kids, and she wasn't going
[17:55] Speaker 1: to be home until later that night. And just knowing
[17:57] Speaker 1: she had that creative outlet really freed her up men,
[18:00] Speaker 1: I think, yeah, and led to that children's book, and
[18:03] Speaker 1: then eventually led to the publishing of her first novel,
[18:07] Speaker 1: Iggy's House.
[18:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a children's book, I guess maybe young
[18:12] Speaker 2: adult book about It's from the viewpoint of a little
[18:17] Speaker 2: white girl named Winnie who lives in a neighborhood where
[18:20] Speaker 2: her best friend has just moved and a black family
[18:23] Speaker 2: moves into the neighborhood, and it's all about the racial
[18:26] Speaker 2: tensions that developed White Flight. But it's rather than Judy
[18:32] Speaker 2: Bloom trying to make it from the viewpoint of the
[18:36] Speaker 2: little girl from the black family that just moved in.
[18:39] Speaker 2: I think she very wisely did it from the viewpoint
[18:42] Speaker 2: of this, you know, little white girl who's looking at
[18:45] Speaker 2: it from the outside and was kind of innocently trying
[18:49] Speaker 2: to figure out what the problem was, what was going on.
[18:52] Speaker 2: And this is nineteen seventy when it was published, and
[18:55] Speaker 2: this is not the kind of book that children were
[19:00] Speaker 2: finding in the library at the time by any means.
[19:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So that's her first one published in
[19:06] Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, as far as the novel goes, and then
[19:09] Speaker 1: right out of the gate, her follow up book, again
[19:12] Speaker 1: also in nineteen seventy, was are you there, God, It's
[19:15] Speaker 1: me and Margaret Wow. So, I mean, can you just
[19:18] Speaker 1: imagine starting your career out with a stone cold classic
[19:21] Speaker 1: like that. It was eventually made into a movie that
[19:25] Speaker 1: was actually pretty good. I know, she Yeah, it wasn't bad.
[19:29] Speaker 1: You know, it's hard when you have such a beloved
[19:31] Speaker 1: book from your childhood, and I think that's why she
[19:34] Speaker 1: waited so long. You know, overtures for years and years
[19:38] Speaker 1: and years to like decades to try and get it
[19:40] Speaker 1: made into a film, and she always said no. And
[19:42] Speaker 1: I think she finally found you know, that it was
[19:44] Speaker 1: time and it turned out pretty good. I'm waiting, you know,
[19:46] Speaker 1: Ruby saw it, and I'm waiting for her to want
[19:48] Speaker 1: to read these books. Yeah, we got them all, like,
[19:50] Speaker 1: you know, ready at the gate, waiting for it.
[19:53] Speaker 2: I in the bookshelf.
[19:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they're ready.
[19:57] Speaker 2: I didn't see it. I saw. I had a seven
[19:59] Speaker 2: point three on IMDb, which is definitely respectable, in ninety
[20:02] Speaker 2: nine percent on Rotten Tomatoes. So you're not the only
[20:05] Speaker 2: one who thought it was pretty good. So this book
[20:09] Speaker 2: that comes out, let's talk about Are you there, God,
[20:11] Speaker 2: it's me Margaret for a second. Okay. The reason we
[20:15] Speaker 2: referred to Judy Bloom as the Trailblazer is because she
[20:17] Speaker 2: was she was one of the first people writing this
[20:21] Speaker 2: kind of book for this age group as the hitting her.
[20:27] Speaker 2: Her book, The Outsiders takes place among high schoolers, same
[20:32] Speaker 2: with like The Chocolate War by Yeah Yeah, Robert love Them, Yeah,
[20:40] Speaker 2: Robert Ludlan's Chocolate War. And then also there's another one
[20:45] Speaker 2: called The cat ate My Gym Suit by Paula Danzinger.
[20:48] Speaker 2: That was fairly all of them had to do with
[20:51] Speaker 2: ninth graders or up right. Yeah, she's writing about like
[20:55] Speaker 2: eleven year olds. It's going through the beginnings of what
[20:59] Speaker 2: high school are now dealing with, right, And the only
[21:02] Speaker 2: person who beat her was as he hitting. From what
[21:05] Speaker 2: I could tell, I think The Outsiders came out in
[21:06] Speaker 2: nineteen sixty seven. Are you the Gut? Are you there? Gut?
[21:09] Speaker 2: It's me Margaret came out in nineteen seventy, and again
[21:12] Speaker 2: it was just totally different from other books for kids
[21:15] Speaker 2: at the time.
[21:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, in kids books are still
[21:19] Speaker 1: like this in a lot of ways, although there's a
[21:20] Speaker 1: lot more variety now, thankfully, But back then it was
[21:24] Speaker 1: kind of like, you present a big problem, maybe there's
[21:27] Speaker 1: a moral issue or something, and there's some big grand
[21:29] Speaker 1: solution that teaches a big grand lesson. And she was like,
[21:35] Speaker 1: you know what, it's not that easy and it's not
[21:37] Speaker 1: that clean to grow up and black and white, So like,
[21:42] Speaker 1: I'm going to write books about how messy it is
[21:45] Speaker 1: and how maybe it's just a struggle sometimes, and you know,
[21:48] Speaker 1: there's just a lot of realism in her books of
[21:51] Speaker 1: like what it was really like to be an adolescent.
[21:54] Speaker 1: And you know, critics liked them right away, the buying
[22:00] Speaker 1: public love them. I think it was an are you there? God?
[22:04] Speaker 1: Was a New York Times bestseller in a New York
[22:06] Speaker 1: Times Book Review Outstanding Book of nineteen seventy and just
[22:10] Speaker 1: kind of launched her right out of the gate, you know,
[22:12] Speaker 1: for sure?
[22:14] Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw. It also really took off when it
[22:17] Speaker 2: came out in a trade paperback version in nineteen seventy
[22:19] Speaker 2: two at a price that, like younger kids, her audience
[22:23] Speaker 2: could afford. Oh yeah, they didn't have to ask their
[22:25] Speaker 2: parents to buy it for them anymore. Right, So, one
[22:30] Speaker 2: of the things that Judy Bloom is credited with is
[22:35] Speaker 2: essentially approaching adolescents, approaching well, not just menstruation, chuk but monarchy.
[22:41] Speaker 2: Remember that. Yeah, monarchy used to be like a guest character,
[22:45] Speaker 2: a recurring guest character on early stuff you should know,
[22:48] Speaker 2: weirdly enough.
[22:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just a good trivia word.
[22:52] Speaker 2: For sure. But she approached it as like it's a
[22:55] Speaker 2: good thing. This is exciting, Like her characters are like,
[22:58] Speaker 2: hurry up, I want to hurry up. And one passage
[23:01] Speaker 2: that's very, very famous is when Margaret and her friends,
[23:07] Speaker 2: who all collectively make up the Preteen Sensations. It's their
[23:11] Speaker 2: little secret club where they get together and talk about
[23:13] Speaker 2: this stuff. One of them has the idea they want
[23:15] Speaker 2: to basically grow breasts, I guess is the best way
[23:19] Speaker 2: to put it. And so one of them suggests they
[23:22] Speaker 2: like move their elbows like back and forth alongside of
[23:26] Speaker 2: their like they're basically pumping. And while you do that,
[23:30] Speaker 2: you have to say, I must, I must, I must
[23:33] Speaker 2: increase my bust.
[23:34] Speaker 1: Classic.
[23:35] Speaker 2: I didn't know that came from that. I always associate
[23:37] Speaker 2: that with the Lords of Acid. Remember that song.
[23:40] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I had.
[23:41] Speaker 2: No idea that Jade for You from Lords of Acid
[23:46] Speaker 2: was a Judy Bloom fan and was sighting are you there?
[23:49] Speaker 2: Got It's me?
[23:50] Speaker 1: Margaret pretty cool and s he Hinton was a teenage
[23:53] Speaker 1: girl when she wrote The Outsider.
[23:54] Speaker 2: I'm just finding out all sorts of big stuff.
[23:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty cool. I mean, monumental book right out
[23:59] Speaker 1: of the gate. She is. At the same time this
[24:02] Speaker 1: is going on, you know, a kind of playing this
[24:06] Speaker 1: housewife role, but again realizing, like you know, I don't
[24:11] Speaker 1: know if that was the life for me. I got
[24:13] Speaker 1: married when I was young. I never had sort of
[24:15] Speaker 1: the freedom and adventure that I longed for in her life.
[24:19] Speaker 1: And she said, you know, there was a quote where
[24:22] Speaker 1: she said, for sixteen years writing save me and my marriage,
[24:25] Speaker 1: but by the mid seventies the rules it changed. So
[24:28] Speaker 1: by nineteen seventy five she's like, you know, I think
[24:32] Speaker 1: I want a divorce, and she did that. She divorced
[24:34] Speaker 1: her first husband, moved to New York, and then a
[24:37] Speaker 1: year later married a physicist named Thomas Kitchens. They were
[24:41] Speaker 1: only married for about four years, but they had a
[24:43] Speaker 1: pretty adventurous life. They lived in London and in New Mexico.
[24:47] Speaker 2: Right, I think at Los Alamosh Okay. So also by
[24:54] Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five, when she decided to get divorced from
[24:57] Speaker 2: her first husband, the lawyer, she had put out ten
[25:01] Speaker 2: books between nineteen seventy and nineteen seventy five.
[25:05] Speaker 1: Pretty amazing.
[25:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, basically almost all the ones that you and I
[25:09] Speaker 2: read came out in that first like ten year spurt.
[25:12] Speaker 2: Like she just wrote classic best selling kids books just
[25:17] Speaker 2: right out of the gate. It's just really cool how
[25:20] Speaker 2: much she was able to do, how much she was
[25:22] Speaker 2: able to just connect with little kids. I still don't
[25:25] Speaker 2: get it, like I do not understand how an adult
[25:27] Speaker 2: can do that. I'm just in awe of it.
[25:30] Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I know her nineteen seventy five book
[25:33] Speaker 1: Forever is not one that I read. But that's a
[25:37] Speaker 1: very big book for Emily, and I know, a very
[25:40] Speaker 1: big book for a lot of like probably girls of
[25:43] Speaker 1: all generations, but gen X's Girls in particular, because that
[25:46] Speaker 1: was the one where she had kind of been building
[25:48] Speaker 1: up to, you know, you know, talking about prepubescent stuff
[25:53] Speaker 1: and adolescents and puberty and then finally and Forever, it's
[25:56] Speaker 1: like finally a character that wants to try and have
[25:59] Speaker 1: sex for the first time, and Emily is just like, oh, man,
[26:02] Speaker 1: like to read that book as a kid, it was
[26:03] Speaker 1: like a really big deal.
[26:05] Speaker 2: Yes, And the book itself, I've seen it described as
[26:09] Speaker 2: essentially a self help manual for having safe sex because
[26:13] Speaker 2: she follows the main character Catherine throughout like this process
[26:17] Speaker 2: where she meets the dude, she falls in love, she
[26:20] Speaker 2: decides to have sex, and then before she has sex,
[26:22] Speaker 2: she goes to like planned parenthood to get condoms. Yeah,
[26:27] Speaker 2: Like she basically learns anatomy and reproductive stuff, like all
[26:33] Speaker 2: sorts of different things that are laid out like this
[26:37] Speaker 2: is what's happening to Catherine. But reader, I'm really talking
[26:40] Speaker 2: to you, and I'm making it as plain as possible.
[26:42] Speaker 2: If you're gonna have sex, do this stuff, because this
[26:45] Speaker 2: is how you have safe sex. And of course, as
[26:48] Speaker 2: we'll see, like that just made it an absolute target
[26:51] Speaker 2: for book challenges, where you formally request a book be
[26:56] Speaker 2: being under removed from a library.
[26:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we can go into talk about that
[27:00] Speaker 1: if you want. I mean, as much as people love
[27:03] Speaker 1: Judy Bloom, there was another set of people that hated
[27:08] Speaker 1: an author, a grown woman writing about the realistic challenges
[27:11] Speaker 1: of like being a kid and being a tween or
[27:14] Speaker 1: a teen and going through puberty and all that stuff.
[27:17] Speaker 1: So she was a target right out of the gate
[27:20] Speaker 1: for book banning, like you said, and is on a
[27:23] Speaker 1: lot of lists. As you know, some of the most
[27:26] Speaker 1: banned books of all time have been Judy Bloom books,
[27:28] Speaker 1: which is like a to me, a feather in your
[27:31] Speaker 1: cap as an author, because that means you're probably telling
[27:33] Speaker 1: the truth about something.
[27:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, but as we'll see, that drove her crazy, like
[27:36] Speaker 2: she is not one for censorship, you know.
[27:40] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for sure.
[27:41] Speaker 2: So the key I saw to understanding why everybody wants
[27:46] Speaker 2: to ban Judy Bloom books. Is that Judy Bloom was
[27:49] Speaker 2: the epitome of second wave feminism. Like all the stuff
[27:53] Speaker 2: that Betty Fridhan talked about, the feminine mystique is embodied
[27:57] Speaker 2: in the writing of Judy Bloom, and Judy Bloom is
[28:00] Speaker 2: talking directly to the next generation of kids, essentially saying
[28:03] Speaker 2: this is the way to be, this is a good
[28:05] Speaker 2: this is a good way to become a good person
[28:08] Speaker 2: and love yourself and treat other people kindly. And the
[28:13] Speaker 2: arch rival to second wave feminism in the seventies and eighties,
[28:17] Speaker 2: and I just think still today is conservativism. They don't
[28:22] Speaker 2: want kids shaped like that. So when they see people,
[28:27] Speaker 2: when they see books like that should He Bloom books
[28:29] Speaker 2: in their library, they don't want their kids anywhere near it,
[28:32] Speaker 2: so they request the book be removed. That's why those
[28:36] Speaker 2: those books get challenged all the time, is because they're
[28:38] Speaker 2: a challenge themselves to conservative ideology, which largely revolves around
[28:44] Speaker 2: the idea that if you don't teach kids stuff, they're
[28:48] Speaker 2: not going to do it. They're not going to think
[28:50] Speaker 2: of it themselves, and they're not going to do it.
[28:52] Speaker 2: And yeah, it seems preposterous to me too, and it
[28:54] Speaker 2: gets proven wrong time and time and time again. But
[28:58] Speaker 2: that's just how that's just the conservative outlook. That's just
[29:01] Speaker 2: they don't feel comfortable trying a different way in that respect.
[29:05] Speaker 2: And you know, I mean that's a lot of people's viewpoint,
[29:09] Speaker 2: it's not necessarily mine. But I think, you know, it
[29:12] Speaker 2: doesn't mean that's inherently wrong. I just I just don't
[29:15] Speaker 2: like the idea of banning books, even though I get
[29:18] Speaker 2: to an extent where they're coming from. They're trying to
[29:20] Speaker 2: protect their children, not take off Judy Bloom or the liberals.
[29:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think a lot of what that frame
[29:26] Speaker 1: of mind comes from is I want to be the
[29:30] Speaker 1: decider of my kid learning what they learn when they
[29:33] Speaker 1: learn it. As far as sexuality goes, right, I want
[29:36] Speaker 1: to be in charge of that. I don't want it
[29:37] Speaker 1: to come from some book from some lady that they
[29:39] Speaker 1: happen to check out at the library.
[29:41] Speaker 2: Because they had a good like cover illustration.
[29:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, I get that to a certain degree.
[29:46] Speaker 1: But like ts, you know, for Judy, as far as
[29:51] Speaker 1: she goes, she didn't think she was being very controversial.
[29:53] Speaker 1: She thought I'm just writing in a very frank way
[29:56] Speaker 1: about how kids really are, Like I was writing the truth, right, Chuck,
[30:00] Speaker 1: All right, Well, one day, say she didn't like the
[30:03] Speaker 1: sterilized adolescents that she saw portrayed in like other kids
[30:07] Speaker 1: books and you know, books that ignored the angst of
[30:10] Speaker 1: what was going on in kids' lives. So she thought,
[30:13] Speaker 1: and I think she was very much correct in my opinion,
[30:15] Speaker 1: and I'm sure yours that she was doing a service
[30:18] Speaker 1: by like kind of portraying the realism of childhood and teendom. Yeah.
[30:23] Speaker 2: Better to learn this stuff from an adult who knows
[30:26] Speaker 2: what they're talking about, who's been through this and knows
[30:28] Speaker 2: how to describe the process of having safe sex than
[30:32] Speaker 2: from Tina who has an older brother that mentioned to
[30:35] Speaker 2: her like, you know one time.
[30:37] Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
[30:39] Speaker 2: So, yes, she has been I think she's not just
[30:43] Speaker 2: been one of the most banned authors of the eighties
[30:46] Speaker 2: and the nineties, but also the twenty first century. I
[30:50] Speaker 2: think even in twenty twenty five, twenty twenty four to
[30:53] Speaker 2: twenty twenty five school year, she was her novel Forever
[30:58] Speaker 2: was on the list of most banned books. The one
[31:02] Speaker 2: that had it was basically a safe sex self help Yeah,
[31:07] Speaker 2: so yeah, you can kind of understand that. But it's
[31:09] Speaker 2: not just that. There's been other ones too, Like Tiger
[31:12] Speaker 2: Eyes is about a girl whose father is killed during
[31:19] Speaker 2: a robbery of the seven to eleven that he works at,
[31:22] Speaker 2: and her coming to terms with that and suffering from
[31:24] Speaker 2: grief and depression, and one of her friends is an
[31:27] Speaker 2: underage binge drinker. I mean, that book gets banned a
[31:31] Speaker 2: lot too.
[31:33] Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, I just think it's so cool that she
[31:35] Speaker 1: was brave enough to like write these stories, you know.
[31:38] Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I mean like she was very brave,
[31:41] Speaker 2: especially after it became clear and I think it did
[31:43] Speaker 2: fairly early on that there was a large segment of
[31:47] Speaker 2: America that viewed her books as controversial, And so yeah,
[31:52] Speaker 2: every time she sat down and wrote one of these,
[31:54] Speaker 2: it was a greater and greater act of bravery.
[31:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, and a bigger and bigger middle finger. Should we
[32:02] Speaker 1: take our second break?
[32:03] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[32:04] Speaker 1: All right, we'll be right back, everybody with more on
[32:06] Speaker 1: Judy Bloom. All right. So I did mention, and you know,
[32:27] Speaker 1: this isn't the most revealing thing in the world. A
[32:29] Speaker 1: lot of authors write about what they know, but Judy
[32:31] Speaker 1: Bloom definitely did that. When she was living in Maine,
[32:35] Speaker 1: she wrote a story said in Maine. When she lived
[32:37] Speaker 1: in New Mexico, she wrote, I think I said movie.
[32:40] Speaker 1: She wrote a book. You know, I'm talking about books here.
[32:43] Speaker 1: She wrote a book. Did I say movie?
[32:45] Speaker 2: I don't think so.
[32:46] Speaker 1: Okay, I thought it said movie.
[32:48] Speaker 2: If you did, I'm sorry I missed Anyway.
[32:50] Speaker 1: A lot of times she wrote books like set where
[32:52] Speaker 1: she was living, or about sort of veiled, thinly veiled
[32:55] Speaker 1: sort of things that happened in her own childhood. Super unusual.
[33:01] Speaker 1: But she also did the same thing. You know, she
[33:02] Speaker 1: wrote adult books too. We're talking about her kid's books.
[33:04] Speaker 1: She wrote four novels for adults. They were all bestsellers
[33:07] Speaker 1: as well, and they were all sort of about her
[33:11] Speaker 1: life experiences, starting with Wifey in nineteen seventy eight, about
[33:15] Speaker 1: a woman who was in a sort of traditional marriage
[33:18] Speaker 1: he wanted to break out of that.
[33:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty autobiographical. There's also Smart Women, which was about
[33:25] Speaker 2: women navigating dating and relationships after like post divorce.
[33:30] Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go.
[33:31] Speaker 2: That was eighty three. There's also one that came out
[33:34] Speaker 2: in ninety eight called Summer Sisters. It's about a female friendship.
[33:37] Speaker 2: That sounds pretty sweet.
[33:39] Speaker 1: Yeah, Summer's in the season.
[33:40] Speaker 2: And then in the Unlikely Event from twenty fifteen. That
[33:44] Speaker 2: was the one you mentioned that she wrote about a
[33:46] Speaker 2: family going through those actual plane crashes that she went through.
[33:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And you know I said that critics,
[33:53] Speaker 1: they certainly didn't love everything. I know, are you there,
[33:55] Speaker 1: Goud It's me Margaret. And a lot of her best
[33:57] Speaker 1: sellers got some good marks with critics, but a lot
[33:59] Speaker 1: of critics kind of dunked on her for being a
[34:04] Speaker 1: simplistic writer. And there was one critic who compared her
[34:07] Speaker 1: writing to a shopping list. And I always just thought
[34:10] Speaker 1: her work was just very readable for her audience. If
[34:15] Speaker 1: that's simplistic, then I guess it works in my opinion,
[34:18] Speaker 1: you know, yeah.
[34:20] Speaker 2: I mean we're talking about eleven year old readers who
[34:23] Speaker 2: may have only been reading for the last handful of years, you.
[34:26] Speaker 1: Know, yeah, totally.
[34:27] Speaker 2: Yeah. But the difference is she didn't write down to them, right,
[34:32] Speaker 2: So yeah, I think I think there were just people
[34:35] Speaker 2: who didn't like what she was writing, and we're taking
[34:38] Speaker 2: potshots wherever they felt they could get.
[34:41] Speaker 1: This made me kind of want to reread one of
[34:43] Speaker 1: her books and just see how it grabbed me as
[34:45] Speaker 1: an adult.
[34:46] Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, I ran across a couple of people
[34:48] Speaker 2: who were talking about some of these books and they're like, yeah,
[34:51] Speaker 2: I spent three hours reading this and it was.
[34:52] Speaker 1: Well worth right, and it just plays through it.
[34:55] Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel the same way that I'd like to
[34:58] Speaker 2: read some more, just at least one or two and
[35:02] Speaker 2: then the entire catalog of Sweet Valley High.
[35:06] Speaker 1: Emily read those two man, she reads a lot and
[35:09] Speaker 1: read a lot as a kid.
[35:10] Speaker 2: Yeah, well they were huge when we were younger.
[35:13] Speaker 1: Yeah. And the other one for Emily was the Nancy
[35:16] Speaker 1: Drew books. She still has her collection from like her mom,
[35:19] Speaker 1: from when she was a kid, and she read all
[35:20] Speaker 1: of those.
[35:20] Speaker 2: That's really cool.
[35:22] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[35:22] Speaker 2: Yeah, my sisters read those. And The Hardy Boys a
[35:25] Speaker 2: little bit.
[35:26] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[35:26] Speaker 2: I was a fan of Alfred Hitchcock's Three Investigators.
[35:32] Speaker 1: Two. Why does it sound so familiar?
[35:35] Speaker 2: It was like Alfred Hitchcock's nephew and every once in
[35:38] Speaker 2: a while they could call on Alfred Hitchcock.
[35:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, but they read some of.
[35:42] Speaker 2: Them, investigate some It was very Hardy Boys esque.
[35:45] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[35:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, I like them for some reason.
[35:48] Speaker 1: What a time, What.
[35:49] Speaker 2: A time to be alive.
[35:52] Speaker 1: So because of all of the book banning and stuff
[35:55] Speaker 1: that went on, it's probably no surprise that she became
[35:59] Speaker 1: very much a a kind of central person in the
[36:03] Speaker 1: anti book banning movement. Yeah, she has worked a lot
[36:08] Speaker 1: over the years with the National Coalition Against Censorship. She
[36:11] Speaker 1: had a couple of projects in the eighties trying to
[36:15] Speaker 1: get like parents and kids talking more, and one was
[36:17] Speaker 1: called the Kids Fun Capitol Kids in nineteen eighty one. Yeah,
[36:20] Speaker 1: very cool, And that's to develop programs that encourage communication
[36:23] Speaker 1: between parents and teens, the foster parent child discussions through books.
[36:28] Speaker 1: And then she had a book she I don't think
[36:31] Speaker 1: we mentioned. One of the things that she got a
[36:33] Speaker 1: lot through her career was letters from kids who often
[36:37] Speaker 1: told her things that like they would never tell their
[36:39] Speaker 1: parents and were just very open and expressive. So she
[36:44] Speaker 1: hopefully had permission, but she eventually put those out in
[36:46] Speaker 1: a book called Letters to Judy Colon What your kids
[36:50] Speaker 1: wish they could tell you, And this was in nineteen
[36:52] Speaker 1: eighty six.
[36:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought that was a pretty cool thing to do.
[36:55] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[36:56] Speaker 2: Same, So yeah, I'd like she's the real deal. She's
[37:01] Speaker 2: not just in it for the dough, although I'm quite
[37:04] Speaker 2: sure she's made quite a bit of dough, because I
[37:07] Speaker 2: think she's sold like ninety million copies of her books
[37:10] Speaker 2: over the years. Ooh, man, forty different languages.
[37:14] Speaker 1: That's amazing.
[37:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, so she has made quite a bit of money,
[37:19] Speaker 2: but she's also legit in the fact that she's she
[37:23] Speaker 2: really genuinely wants to figure out how to bridge the
[37:26] Speaker 2: gap between parents and their kids to help both groups.
[37:32] Speaker 2: She also you said that she was like really against censorship.
[37:37] Speaker 2: One of the things that she took a stand against
[37:39] Speaker 2: was back in twenty twenty three was a cancel culture.
[37:44] Speaker 2: Basically any kind of intellectual censorship or anything that was
[37:49] Speaker 2: against any intellectual freedom. She was against. And she was
[37:54] Speaker 2: talking about this in an interview with The Times of
[37:56] Speaker 2: London in April of that year. Apparently they asked her
[38:01] Speaker 2: about JK Rowling, who, at the time and I think
[38:03] Speaker 2: still basically every day was controversial because she made some
[38:08] Speaker 2: like repeated double down comments about that we're just transphobic essentially. Yeah,
[38:18] Speaker 2: and out of that context, in a different context, they
[38:21] Speaker 2: I asked Judy Bloom about that about JK Rowling, and
[38:25] Speaker 2: she said that I love her. I am behind her
[38:28] Speaker 2: one hundred percent. As I watched from afar and the
[38:32] Speaker 2: way that it was printed in the Times of London article,
[38:35] Speaker 2: it made it sound like she was like, yeah, I'm
[38:38] Speaker 2: backing up this person's transphobic comments. I'm behind her one
[38:42] Speaker 2: hundred percent. So she had to take the social media
[38:45] Speaker 2: to be like that was out of context.
[38:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, in fact, I think we should read her quote
[38:50] Speaker 1: even she said I wholly support the trans community. My point,
[38:54] Speaker 1: which was taken out of context, is that I can
[38:56] Speaker 1: empathize with the writer or any person who has been
[38:59] Speaker 1: harassed online, stand with the trans community, and vehemently disagree
[39:03] Speaker 1: with anyone who does not fully support equality and acceptance
[39:06] Speaker 1: of LGTBQ plus people. Anything to the contrary is total
[39:11] Speaker 1: b sh And I love that she took such a
[39:15] Speaker 1: hard stance of like, hey, hey, hey, don't misunderstand my words,
[39:20] Speaker 1: like I'm Judy effing Bloom exactly.
[39:23] Speaker 2: That was pretty much what's between the lines there for sure. Yeah,
[39:28] Speaker 2: so let's see, you said that she lives in Key West.
[39:31] Speaker 2: Now you can go to books and books at the
[39:33] Speaker 2: studios of Key West and say hi, maybe buy something,
[39:36] Speaker 2: and then she's I mean, she's just basically been really
[39:39] Speaker 2: back in the spotlight in the last few years, even
[39:41] Speaker 2: though she's from what I understand, still on hiatus since
[39:45] Speaker 2: twenty fifteen from writing or at least publishing. But starting
[39:50] Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three, there were not just that movie
[39:53] Speaker 2: for Are You There Got It to Me? Margaret, which,
[39:55] Speaker 2: like you said, people have been waiting decades for. There's
[39:58] Speaker 2: a documentary that came out that year, Bloom Forever.
[40:01] Speaker 1: It's great and yeah.
[40:02] Speaker 2: And then in twenty twenty four there was a biography,
[40:05] Speaker 2: The Genius of Judy, by rachelle Bergstein, that was kind
[40:10] Speaker 2: of like a scholarly exploration of how Bloom's work impacted kids.
[40:17] Speaker 2: And then there was another one. It was a authorized
[40:20] Speaker 2: and then unauthorized autobiography called Judy Bloom Colon a Life
[40:25] Speaker 2: that her friend Mark Oppenheimer published in March twenty twenty six,
[40:30] Speaker 2: and that she publicly removed her support from cut off
[40:33] Speaker 2: contact with Oppenheimer. Yea, and then didn't explain to the
[40:37] Speaker 2: public or Oppenheimer why.
[40:39] Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know why.
[40:41] Speaker 2: No, no one knows why she didn't tell me. Poured
[40:43] Speaker 2: over those books and have been like or that book
[40:47] Speaker 2: and have been like, maybe this is it? Is this it?
[40:49] Speaker 2: I don't know. Mark Oppenheimer's like, I have no idea.
[40:52] Speaker 2: She didn't explain it to me. There wasn't anything controversial
[40:55] Speaker 2: she like, but she read the first draft and that
[40:58] Speaker 2: was it.
[40:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, who knows, you know, I know what you mentioned.
[41:01] Speaker 1: She had those two divorces, but you'll be glad to
[41:04] Speaker 1: know that she found long lasting true love. Sometimes it
[41:08] Speaker 1: takes a couple of times to get it right. But
[41:10] Speaker 1: she met a guy named George Cooper in nineteen seventy
[41:13] Speaker 1: nine and they moved in together after their very first
[41:16] Speaker 1: date and got married eight years later in nineteen eighty seven.
[41:20] Speaker 1: And that is who helps her run that bookstore down
[41:23] Speaker 1: in Key Wes. So they're still together after all these years.
[41:25] Speaker 2: That is super cute. Yeah, he's like a civil rights
[41:29] Speaker 2: law professor.
[41:30] Speaker 1: I think, yeah, that sounds about right.
[41:34] Speaker 2: What else you got?
[41:36] Speaker 1: I got nothing else I don't either.
[41:38] Speaker 2: Hats off to Judy Bloom. Even if you don't agree
[41:41] Speaker 2: with her writing and what she writes about to kids,
[41:44] Speaker 2: you still got to admire bravery, courage.
[41:47] Speaker 1: Agreed.
[41:49] Speaker 2: And if you want to know more about Judy Bloom,
[41:51] Speaker 2: doesn't really matter what aide you are, go read some
[41:53] Speaker 2: of her books. While you're doing that, And you know what,
[41:56] Speaker 2: you could do a lot worse than checking it out
[41:58] Speaker 2: at your local library to support its existence there true
[42:02] Speaker 2: and or could do both. Buy one from your local
[42:06] Speaker 2: independent bookseller.
[42:07] Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe from Judy Bloom herself, sure you're in Key West.
[42:13] Speaker 2: Or if you find a dude selling books out of
[42:16] Speaker 2: the trunk of his car that is as independent a
[42:18] Speaker 2: bookseller as you can find.
[42:20] Speaker 1: I wonder if you bought one from Judy Bloom herself
[42:23] Speaker 1: in her own bookstore and you're like, oh my god,
[42:25] Speaker 1: will you please sign this, She's like, I don't sign
[42:27] Speaker 1: books on Judy writing Bloom.
[42:29] Speaker 2: Please leave.
[42:29] Speaker 1: Here's your receipt middle finger.
[42:32] Speaker 2: Let's see. Chuck just made himself laugh, which is wonderful.
[42:35] Speaker 2: That means it's time for listener mail.
[42:39] Speaker 1: That means he's awake. Bonjour, Josh and Chuck. My husband
[42:43] Speaker 1: and I finally had a chance to see you live
[42:44] Speaker 1: for the first time at Massey Hall in Toronto this June,
[42:48] Speaker 1: which in real time was just a couple of nights
[42:49] Speaker 1: ago for us, and it was the greatest show on Earth.
[42:54] Speaker 2: Yeah, we got a standing ovation.
[42:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really something. We are from a small
[42:59] Speaker 1: community about two hours and a half north of Toronto,
[43:02] Speaker 1: and we're definitely not city people, but we figured it's
[43:05] Speaker 1: worth it for Josh and Chuck. My husband's been a
[43:07] Speaker 1: huge fan and loyal listener for many years. I'll admit
[43:09] Speaker 1: that I had personally listen because it gave me something
[43:11] Speaker 1: to talk about with a guy who had eventually become
[43:13] Speaker 1: my husband. But it didn't take long before I genuinely
[43:16] Speaker 1: fell in love with the show myself, and because of that,
[43:18] Speaker 1: I've always associated both of you with the very beginning
[43:21] Speaker 1: of our relationship. Nice your show at Massey Hall far
[43:24] Speaker 1: exceeded our expectations. I just wanted to thank you for
[43:27] Speaker 1: giving us such a wonderful evening. Atmosphere was warm, relaxed,
[43:30] Speaker 1: genuinely fun. My husband was smiling from ear to ear
[43:33] Speaker 1: the entire time, and despite the anxiety that events like
[43:36] Speaker 1: this can sometimes bring, he was comfortable and able to
[43:39] Speaker 1: simply enjoy himself, and that alone meant more to me
[43:42] Speaker 1: than I can express. So thank you both for doing
[43:44] Speaker 1: what you do despite all the craziness in the world
[43:47] Speaker 1: right now. It brought me so much joy to see
[43:48] Speaker 1: a room full of people come together simply to laugh
[43:51] Speaker 1: and learn and enjoy a couple of hours together. I
[43:53] Speaker 1: think your Canadian listeners note just how kind and genuine
[43:55] Speaker 1: you both are, and we truly appreciate that you made
[43:58] Speaker 1: the trip to spend some time with us here in care.
[44:00] Speaker 1: We'd be lucky to have you back anytime, because you're
[44:03] Speaker 1: always welcome here. Thanks for such a memorable experience, warmly,
[44:07] Speaker 1: Kelsey and Andrew. Sweet.
[44:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a world class email.
[44:11] Speaker 1: Huh maybe best ever.
[44:13] Speaker 2: That's the kind of email that removes borders and just
[44:16] Speaker 2: turns us into one great, big North American continent. You know. Agreed, Well,
[44:22] Speaker 2: thanks a lot, Kelsey and Andrew. Thanks for coming to
[44:24] Speaker 2: see us, and thank you Kelsey for such a great email.
[44:26] Speaker 2: And if you want to try to top that, let's
[44:28] Speaker 2: see what you got. You can wrap it up, spank
[44:31] Speaker 2: it on the bottom, and send it off to stuff
[44:33] Speaker 2: podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
[44:40] Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
[44:43] Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
[44:47] Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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