# What's the deal with Swiss neutrality?

An episode of [Stuff You Should Know](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/278981407), 23 Jul 2026, 48 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/a91018a4-ea4f-4130-bf55-ae270180c327/20920c41-cb00-4a5f-9f42-b48d013f5435/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=44710ecc-10bb-48d1-93c7-ae270180c33e

We all know Switzerland is neutral. But why? Listen in and you might learn something. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:01] Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
[0:11] Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
[0:14] Speaker 2: chalk and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you
[0:17] Speaker 2: should know, everybody.
[0:19] Speaker 1: That's right, we're talking about one of the two things
[0:21] Speaker 1: switzerm One is known for.
[0:23] Speaker 2: What it's not cheese Okay, then chocolate, that's true. Three
[0:30] Speaker 2: things okay, cuckoo clocks, four things, beautiful mountains, five things.
[0:39] Speaker 1: Beautiful people, roasty, six things, seven things. All right, let's
[0:42] Speaker 1: just cut to the chase. Then there's a lot to Switzerland, everybody.
[0:46] Speaker 1: And this is just one of myriad things we could
[0:48] Speaker 1: talk about, and that is Swiss neutrality. And I think
[0:52] Speaker 1: this came to mind because of the recent talks between
[0:57] Speaker 1: the United States and Iran and a new Switzerland had
[1:02] Speaker 1: a role to play there, and I'm.
[1:03] Speaker 3: Like, what the heck is up with that country?
[1:07] Speaker 2: Did you say that out loud?
[1:08] Speaker 3: I think I did, And Ruby was like, what country did?
[1:11] Speaker 2: It's a good idea, Chuck. I had no idea about this,
[1:14] Speaker 2: and I'm not sure if I ever would have thought
[1:16] Speaker 2: of doing one on this, but it's actually pretty interesting.
[1:19] Speaker 3: Yeah, and thanks to Olivia. But I now understand it.
[1:22] Speaker 2: Yeah, and we should say that. Right before we started recording,
[1:26] Speaker 2: Jerry announced that she is the Switzerland of stuff. You
[1:29] Speaker 2: should know.
[1:31] Speaker 3: Jerry likes to think she is.
[1:33] Speaker 2: Well, then who would be the Switzerland?
[1:36] Speaker 3: We have no Switzerland.
[1:37] Speaker 2: Okay, who are you?
[1:39] Speaker 3: Uh? I don't know.
[1:42] Speaker 2: I'm a mix of Turkmenistan and Denmark. Okay, all right, great,
[1:49] Speaker 2: And that's just where we're going to leave this, because
[1:51] Speaker 2: let's get back to talking about Switzerland, which is, like
[1:53] Speaker 2: you said, known for many things, and this neutrality thing
[1:58] Speaker 2: I had no idea, but it is in stark contrast
[2:02] Speaker 2: to how Switzerland used to be during the Middle Ages
[2:06] Speaker 2: or medieval times, if you're one of those people who
[2:08] Speaker 2: goes to medieval times.
[2:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know we should point out too, Switzerland's
[2:12] Speaker 1: not the only neutral country. I think Livia found twenty
[2:15] Speaker 1: to twenty five basically neutral countries around the world. But
[2:19] Speaker 1: Switzerland it's a real like when you think of neutral countries,
[2:23] Speaker 1: I think most people would say Switzerland because they've taken
[2:26] Speaker 1: not just neutrality as a stance, but like a really
[2:29] Speaker 1: active neutrality and like, hey, come and settle your warring
[2:33] Speaker 1: disputes here in our friendly confines, or your financial disputes
[2:37] Speaker 1: and our friendly confines.
[2:39] Speaker 2: Yeah. As a matter of fact, Switzerland is the only
[2:41] Speaker 2: country that comes to mind when I think of neutrality.
[2:44] Speaker 2: I had honestly no idea that other countries were officially neutral. Yeah,
[2:49] Speaker 2: like Ireland is Did you know that?
[2:52] Speaker 3: No, but I believe it.
[2:53] Speaker 2: Okay, well, at any rate, Yes, they are the standard,
[2:57] Speaker 2: the gold standard, the Nazi gold state of neutral countries. So,
[3:05] Speaker 2: like I said, the whole thing kind of, I think
[3:08] Speaker 2: it was officially neutral as of like the eighteen teens.
[3:12] Speaker 1: Right, yeah, and then eighteen fifty one, I think when
[3:16] Speaker 1: they formerly became a country. But right, but yeah, but
[3:20] Speaker 1: you promised talk to the Middle Ages. And it is
[3:22] Speaker 1: interesting that we can go back to the thirteenth century
[3:25] Speaker 1: to kind of see the beginnings of this.
[3:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, apparently this is where William Tell comes from too.
[3:31] Speaker 2: Did you know that? No? I know shamefully little about
[3:36] Speaker 2: William Tell's I was reading I think it's swiss info
[3:40] Speaker 2: ch They're like the English speaking outlet for Switzerland, and
[3:45] Speaker 2: this article this guy was writing. He's like, we all
[3:47] Speaker 2: know the story of William Tell, blah blah blah, And
[3:49] Speaker 2: I was like, actually, I don't know anything that you
[3:51] Speaker 2: just mentioned.
[3:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed. He has a heck of an overture, that's
[3:55] Speaker 1: all I know.
[3:56] Speaker 2: Yeah, apparently so I here in the United States, everybody,
[3:59] Speaker 2: we're that William Tell shot the apple off of his
[4:02] Speaker 2: kid's head to show off like his skills. Apparently he
[4:06] Speaker 2: was forced to do that by some evil, evil Austrian
[4:09] Speaker 2: like overlords who had taken over Switzerland. And William Tell's
[4:13] Speaker 2: actually a resistance fighter who helped Switzerland overthrow those Austrian overlords. Fantastic,
[4:20] Speaker 2: but he comes out of this time, right. So, Switzerland,
[4:23] Speaker 2: like you said, until the eighteen fifties or sixties, was
[4:26] Speaker 2: a confederation. It's still known as the Swiss Confederation of Cantons,
[4:31] Speaker 2: which would be like states, provinces, maybe counties, but they're independent,
[4:37] Speaker 2: little municipalities that all together form Switzerland or the Swiss Confederation.
[4:42] Speaker 2: And that's where the whole thing starts. Back in twelve
[4:44] Speaker 2: ninety one, there was an alliance between three of these cantons.
[4:49] Speaker 2: Now there's like twenty five Uri, Schwitz, Schweits maybe and
[4:55] Speaker 2: untor Walden Valden Walden, yeah, yeah, and they formed the
[4:59] Speaker 2: valds Thought Alliance.
[5:02] Speaker 3: Yeah, Stett Stett Voldstetta Alliance.
[5:08] Speaker 1: I would say, I think I don't know if the
[5:09] Speaker 1: East pronounce well, I know that that gives you a
[5:12] Speaker 1: certain thrill, but I think the umlaut would make it
[5:15] Speaker 1: a stett stett.
[5:17] Speaker 2: Say it again, say the whole thing.
[5:19] Speaker 1: The Woldschtez Alliance. These were basically free peasants at the time,
[5:26] Speaker 1: and they you know, partially the reason this all goes
[5:29] Speaker 1: down is because of their location in the Alps, kind
[5:32] Speaker 1: of isolated from a lot of Europe. And so they
[5:35] Speaker 1: were isolated, these free peasants from a lot of the.
[5:39] Speaker 3: Feudal hierarchies all over Europe.
[5:42] Speaker 1: And they were like in a good like geographic position
[5:46] Speaker 1: because they were there in those mountain passes with Italy
[5:49] Speaker 1: to the south and you know German speaking people's to
[5:52] Speaker 1: the north, and so they were there as like hey,
[5:56] Speaker 1: we're kind of here in the middle. So that kind
[5:59] Speaker 1: of started the whole thing of like, hey, everyone wants
[6:01] Speaker 1: to get along with them because they needed them.
[6:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, they've they've from time to time served as a
[6:06] Speaker 2: very useful buffer which has helped other outside nations support
[6:10] Speaker 2: their bid for neutrality right and just to be left alone. Yeah,
[6:14] Speaker 2: at the same time, that isolation, like you said, from
[6:17] Speaker 2: time to time some of their neighbors would break it
[6:20] Speaker 2: and try to basically take over Switzerland and in wood
[6:23] Speaker 2: to varying successes from time to time. Like I said,
[6:27] Speaker 2: but the isolation and the fact that they were mostly
[6:31] Speaker 2: independent made Switzerland or still to this day, that gave
[6:34] Speaker 2: them this fiercely independent streak as a nation that they
[6:41] Speaker 2: see themselves as like it's a different thing. They're separate thing.
[6:45] Speaker 2: They're nothing like a typical nation whatsoever. They're their own thing.
[6:49] Speaker 2: And one of the big things, you can almost call
[6:51] Speaker 2: it a brand, is their neutrality.
[6:53] Speaker 3: That's right.
[6:54] Speaker 1: And when they formed that Bulstead Alliance, it wasn't the
[6:57] Speaker 1: biggest deal because that that had always kind of been
[7:00] Speaker 1: the deal with them, So it was really just renewing
[7:03] Speaker 1: these ties that had already been around for a long time.
[7:07] Speaker 1: But everyone later on would say, oh, actually, that's kind
[7:10] Speaker 1: of when Switzerland started coming together as what would later
[7:14] Speaker 1: be a country. Yeah, And then more cantons came aboard,
[7:17] Speaker 1: the alliance got a little bigger and started getting referred
[7:20] Speaker 1: to as the old Swiss Confederation the new one that
[7:24] Speaker 1: we have now, and that's when they started becoming like
[7:27] Speaker 1: a real kind of piece of the military puzzle that
[7:32] Speaker 1: was going on all around them.
[7:34] Speaker 2: I'm very I'm certain when back in the thirteenth century
[7:38] Speaker 2: they were confused when people called it the Old Swiss
[7:40] Speaker 2: Confederation because it was present to them.
[7:42] Speaker 3: They're like, what are you talking about.
[7:45] Speaker 2: So it was around this time that the Swiss actually
[7:47] Speaker 2: became militarily mighty. The Swiss actually were known for their
[7:54] Speaker 2: warlike tendencies and their excellent fighting skills, so much so
[7:59] Speaker 2: that as they kind of grew and started to take
[8:02] Speaker 2: part in European wars during the medieval era. In the
[8:07] Speaker 2: very very early modern era, apparently Niccolomachiavelli referred to them
[8:11] Speaker 2: as the new Romans, this conquering group of incredibly well
[8:15] Speaker 2: trained fighters that were willing to take on the world. Essentially,
[8:20] Speaker 2: that's that was the image of Switzerland. It's like the
[8:23] Speaker 2: total opposite of how we viewed Switzerland.
[8:25] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, totally.
[8:28] Speaker 1: And you know, they had some pretty decent military upsets
[8:30] Speaker 1: leading up to the beginning of the sixteenth century, and
[8:34] Speaker 1: that's when they started to kind of move away from
[8:36] Speaker 1: that idea because there were some really big countries and
[8:40] Speaker 1: countries getting together and like forming larger alliances around them,
[8:45] Speaker 1: and they were, you know, they were still even though
[8:46] Speaker 1: they had some military might, they realized they were probably
[8:49] Speaker 1: smallish compared to other places that were popping up around them, sure,
[8:53] Speaker 1: notably the Holy Roman Empire. Of course, France, Spain and
[8:57] Speaker 1: Italy kind of all over the place over there trying
[9:00] Speaker 1: to get at least control in the sixteenth century of
[9:03] Speaker 1: the Duchy of Milan, and that's when the Swiss came
[9:06] Speaker 1: out and they're like, hey, you know, the different cantons
[9:09] Speaker 1: had different ideas on who they should support, which would
[9:13] Speaker 1: kind of become a recurring theme of like who they
[9:17] Speaker 1: should have allegiance to and not necessarily agreeing. So maybe
[9:20] Speaker 1: remaining neutral was the best path of least resistance, I guess.
[9:25] Speaker 1: But in this case, at the time, they started out
[9:27] Speaker 1: backing France, then switched to the Italians, and then at
[9:31] Speaker 1: the Battle of Mariniano in fifteen fifteen, the French kind
[9:37] Speaker 1: of kicked their butts, the French and Venetians, and they
[9:40] Speaker 1: were like, all right, we lost ten thousand infantry people,
[9:44] Speaker 1: so like, maybe we need to really rethink putting our
[9:48] Speaker 1: eggs in baskets of other countries.
[9:50] Speaker 2: Yeah, ten thousand was half of the entire Swiss military
[9:54] Speaker 2: force was killed at this one battle. So yeah, It
[9:57] Speaker 2: was a really big deal, so much so that they
[9:59] Speaker 2: were like, yeah, this whole warlike thing is not really
[10:03] Speaker 2: working out all of a sudden, let's explore the idea
[10:06] Speaker 2: of being neutral. And it wasn't just that, but from
[10:09] Speaker 2: everything I've seen, that battle was a decisive turning point
[10:12] Speaker 2: for the mentality among the Swiss about, you know, taking
[10:15] Speaker 2: part in European wars. But there were other things that
[10:19] Speaker 2: kind of contributed to that decision. One was the Protestant Reformation,
[10:25] Speaker 2: because different cantons in different parts of the country supported
[10:29] Speaker 2: or were Protestant or were Catholic, right, Yeah, And that's
[10:34] Speaker 2: a very sticky situation when you're trying to keep these
[10:37] Speaker 2: cantons part of a confederation. Right, there's no central government
[10:40] Speaker 2: that's telling the cantons, no, you can't do this, No
[10:43] Speaker 2: you can't do that. They're a confederation essentially, so they're
[10:46] Speaker 2: all still quite independent, but they're all still also Swiss.
[10:50] Speaker 2: So that in and of itself meant like, how can
[10:53] Speaker 2: you participate in European wars when half of your cantons
[10:57] Speaker 2: want to go to war with one another?
[10:59] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[10:59] Speaker 2: You know, in the wars out and the rest of
[11:01] Speaker 2: Europe are about are between Protestants and Catholics like, you
[11:05] Speaker 2: just can't do that. So the Swiss said, you know what,
[11:07] Speaker 2: let's just stay neutral. And this is a good example
[11:10] Speaker 2: of how being neutral has literally kept the country together
[11:14] Speaker 2: many times over the years, Like where they're like, our differences,
[11:18] Speaker 2: as our differences of opinion are too great right now
[11:21] Speaker 2: among the Cans, so we're just going to not have
[11:24] Speaker 2: an opinion officially as a country.
[11:26] Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
[11:27] Speaker 1: Another thing that helped was they got a pretty sweet
[11:30] Speaker 1: financial deal out of the end of the conflict with
[11:34] Speaker 1: France in fifteen sixteen. That peace treaty gave them access
[11:38] Speaker 1: to French markets. They had I think internally they were like,
[11:41] Speaker 1: I'm not sure if they noticed, but we can do
[11:44] Speaker 1: business with France now, and we could already do business
[11:47] Speaker 1: business with other people, So let's just keep flying under
[11:50] Speaker 1: the radar here financially speaking, because they've got the best
[11:53] Speaker 1: of both worlds. So they had no one to like
[11:55] Speaker 1: financial incidentive to bust up. Almost said bust that move,
[11:59] Speaker 1: but that would be the right term.
[12:00] Speaker 2: Ial think bus a move on French markets. Yeah, sure, okay, yeah,
[12:07] Speaker 2: so yes, this is where their business image also started
[12:13] Speaker 2: to Yeah, this is where the three piece suit was
[12:16] Speaker 2: invented in the peace treaty between France and Europe in
[12:19] Speaker 2: fifteen sixteen.
[12:21] Speaker 3: And let's see, here's a great example. I have no
[12:23] Speaker 3: idea whether to believe you or not. At this point
[12:25] Speaker 3: in my life.
[12:25] Speaker 2: I don't know whether to believe me or not.
[12:27] Speaker 3: Even at least were aligned.
[12:31] Speaker 2: So this is a I don't know if you're picking
[12:33] Speaker 2: up on this, chuck. This is a time of frequent
[12:36] Speaker 2: wars across Europe. And that's the problem. When you put
[12:40] Speaker 2: authoritarian despots in charge with limitless riches. They the elites
[12:45] Speaker 2: wanted to compete among themselves because they want to have
[12:48] Speaker 2: the biggest castle, or I want to have the most
[12:50] Speaker 2: people at my command. Yeah, I want to torture the
[12:53] Speaker 2: most people, right, And they start competing with each other
[12:56] Speaker 2: and they send their own people off to war with
[12:59] Speaker 2: one another. It's a great lesson today. It was something
[13:03] Speaker 2: to learn from, and it happened a lot during this era.
[13:07] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there were a lot of threats to
[13:09] Speaker 1: kind of break up this neutrality. The Thirty Years War
[13:12] Speaker 1: was a big one in sixteen eighteen because again they
[13:16] Speaker 1: were divided sympathies I guess within those cantons, because what
[13:21] Speaker 1: you talked about, but religion for the most part, and
[13:24] Speaker 1: if you got involved in that war as Switzerland, that
[13:27] Speaker 1: would have kind of torn apart this confederation that they
[13:30] Speaker 1: had worked so hard to keep together. And so again
[13:33] Speaker 1: they were like, hey, let's we got to keep a
[13:35] Speaker 1: good thing going here. Let's remain neutral. And in sixteen
[13:39] Speaker 1: forty six the Swedes were sort of threatening them, and
[13:44] Speaker 1: so they're like, well, we need to at least have
[13:46] Speaker 1: an army though for national defense. We can be neutral,
[13:49] Speaker 1: but we can't be we can't be rubesure. So each
[13:53] Speaker 1: canton had like quotas for troops that they had to supply,
[13:56] Speaker 1: and that's when they were like kind of formed that
[13:59] Speaker 1: army of for defense purposes, which still exist today.
[14:03] Speaker 2: So yeah, they created an army in sixteen forty six,
[14:05] Speaker 2: and then two years later really big thing happened. It's
[14:08] Speaker 2: just enormous. I'm really impressed. There is this guy named
[14:12] Speaker 2: Johann Rudolph vechtein Yeah, sounds great. He was the mayor
[14:18] Speaker 2: of Basil, right, and the Thirty Years War came to
[14:22] Speaker 2: an end in sixteen forty eight through the piece of Westphalia,
[14:26] Speaker 2: and vechtein Stein showed up to the piece of West
[14:31] Speaker 2: Fallia Treaty negotiations. He said, I'm glad you guys are
[14:34] Speaker 2: doing this. This is fantastic. Keep up the good work. Also,
[14:38] Speaker 2: I want to talk to everybody about something, even though
[14:41] Speaker 2: I'm just the mayor of Bosel. I want to make
[14:44] Speaker 2: sure that Switzerland is represented here because we're just neutral
[14:48] Speaker 2: and we think that we should no longer be under
[14:53] Speaker 2: the thumb of the Holy Roman Empire. We think that
[14:56] Speaker 2: we should have recognition as an dependent nation and also
[15:02] Speaker 2: we want to be neutral too, And he got it
[15:05] Speaker 2: passed through, like he gained recognition from these major powers
[15:09] Speaker 2: of Europe that Switzerland was now its own country. Holy
[15:13] Speaker 2: Roman Empire, Sorry, you just lost Switzerland.
[15:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that was I'm not sure how he
[15:19] Speaker 1: pulled that off actually at the time, you know.
[15:22] Speaker 2: With a lottery chocolate I'll tell you.
[15:23] Speaker 3: That, yeah, and cuckoo clocks.
[15:27] Speaker 1: So about one hundred years after that, there was another
[15:30] Speaker 1: threat to their neutrality. This was seventeen nineties, late seventeen
[15:33] Speaker 1: nineties when the French Revolutionary Republic and Austria and Russia
[15:40] Speaker 1: were going at it and they kind of eat that
[15:42] Speaker 1: battle into Switzerland some and I think after that victory
[15:48] Speaker 1: that was like seventeen ninety eight, close to eighteen hundred,
[15:51] Speaker 1: the French government created the Helvetic Republic assistern Nation, and
[15:56] Speaker 1: that covered a lot of Switzerland.
[15:59] Speaker 2: Yeah. They basically, he said, oh, we just happened to
[16:01] Speaker 2: create this country that just is within the borders of Switzerland.
[16:05] Speaker 3: Sorry, Switzerland, see some overlap there, guys. Yeah.
[16:07] Speaker 2: They basically turned it into a territory. And this is
[16:10] Speaker 2: pretty much par for the course for Napoleon. He really
[16:14] Speaker 2: kind of sealed the deal when he sent an army
[16:16] Speaker 2: to occupy Switzerland, I guess to protect his new made
[16:19] Speaker 2: up country of Helvetic. I want to say Helvetica is
[16:22] Speaker 2: so bad. But he essentially plundered Switzerland for the next
[16:29] Speaker 2: decade in resources and humans. And actually, when he invaded
[16:35] Speaker 2: Russia in eighteen twelve, he brought some Swiss troops with
[16:38] Speaker 2: him and they did not do very well there.
[16:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, they sent nine thousand troops in seven hundred only
[16:45] Speaker 1: seven hundred came home. Yeah, you know, the tide finally
[16:49] Speaker 1: turned against Napoleon, and so they were like, all right, thank.
[16:52] Speaker 3: God, we got rid of this guy. Yeah. And so
[16:55] Speaker 3: after the Battle of.
[16:58] Speaker 1: Leipzig in I believe eighteen thirteen, they were like all right,
[17:01] Speaker 1: we're back to being neutral again. We do have our
[17:05] Speaker 1: military force, but we're not gonna fight anymore. And in fact,
[17:09] Speaker 1: in December of eighteen thirteen, when the Austrian Imperial Army
[17:13] Speaker 1: was like, all right, we want to march through your
[17:15] Speaker 1: country to go to France, They're like, fine, go right ahead,
[17:17] Speaker 1: we'll just let you do that.
[17:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, they just turned their backs and whistled. So one
[17:22] Speaker 2: other thing happened. There was another another guy named Charles
[17:26] Speaker 2: Pictet de Rochemont, and also in eighteen thirteen, during the
[17:32] Speaker 2: peace treaty that ended well Napoleon's reign, I guess essentially
[17:37] Speaker 2: he showed up and he said, also, we want to
[17:40] Speaker 2: make sure that we're still getting recognized. We're now the
[17:42] Speaker 2: Swiss Confederation. And everyone said, you mean the old Swiss
[17:46] Speaker 2: Confederation and de Rochemont said, no, no, this is brand new.
[17:50] Speaker 2: It's a new Swiss Confederation. You guys are gonna love it.
[17:53] Speaker 2: And he was first just the mayor of Geneva, which
[17:57] Speaker 2: was actually a city state, independenceay state, part of a
[18:01] Speaker 2: canton now and I guess he did such a good
[18:05] Speaker 2: job that he ended up representing Switzerland as a whole.
[18:09] Speaker 2: And this is where their perpetual neutrality was established at
[18:13] Speaker 2: the eighteen fourteen Congress of Vienna.
[18:16] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, and that was it.
[18:18] Speaker 1: I mean people generally look back to eighteen fifteen as
[18:23] Speaker 1: like that's when everything really officially kind of started. When
[18:28] Speaker 1: they became a unified federal state in eighteen forty eight,
[18:30] Speaker 1: was when the final stamp was stamped.
[18:33] Speaker 2: Right, So now we've reached the point where modern Switzerland
[18:37] Speaker 2: is born and it is officially neutral. It's a sovereign nation,
[18:40] Speaker 2: but it's still a confederation. Don't forget that.
[18:43] Speaker 1: That's right, and that is where we're going to take
[18:46] Speaker 1: a break and we'll be right back with more Swiss
[18:49] Speaker 1: neutrality right after this.
[19:10] Speaker 2: So, Chuck, we're in Switzerland now. It's a nice established
[19:14] Speaker 2: country and part of it is very lovely. Part of
[19:19] Speaker 2: what you said it needs and should have is a
[19:22] Speaker 2: military for defense, and still today it has a military.
[19:25] Speaker 2: In fact, I believe this month the military assembled like
[19:30] Speaker 2: four thousand troops along the border to basically just keep
[19:35] Speaker 2: any of the ne'er do wells at the G seventh
[19:38] Speaker 2: summit spilling over, because the G seventh summits in France
[19:42] Speaker 2: right now, that's right, But there I guess military presence
[19:46] Speaker 2: states back I mean much further obviously, but the modern
[19:50] Speaker 2: version of it is from like the nineteenth century, I think.
[19:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, they have to abide by certain
[19:58] Speaker 1: rules that have happened since then, like the the Hague
[20:00] Speaker 1: Convention nineteen oh seven. If you're a neutral country, which
[20:04] Speaker 1: I guess there's like twenty three or so now that
[20:06] Speaker 1: we've learned that, they can't fight in a war. They
[20:09] Speaker 1: can't support any other countries warring parties. They can't send
[20:13] Speaker 1: them weapons like most other countries do. They can't send
[20:17] Speaker 1: money to help out in a war. They can't say hey,
[20:20] Speaker 1: we'll host a base here, or your foreign troops can
[20:24] Speaker 1: stay here for a little while. So, you know, they
[20:28] Speaker 1: have to remain truly neutral under the Hague Convention, which
[20:31] Speaker 1: they were. I'm sure they were quite delighted to make
[20:34] Speaker 1: it official. But they again they've maintained that army because
[20:39] Speaker 1: they have to have their own defense. And also we
[20:43] Speaker 1: should point out that the Swiss army knife kind of
[20:46] Speaker 1: came around in the nineteenth century, the eighteen eighties. It's
[20:50] Speaker 1: like a literal, you know, if you didn't think the
[20:52] Speaker 1: Swiss had an army, they had a knife named after them.
[20:55] Speaker 3: Yeah, of course they had an army.
[20:57] Speaker 2: For sure, and I mean it really is this army knife.
[21:01] Speaker 2: They just call it the army knife. I'm guessing in Switzerland,
[21:03] Speaker 2: but everywhere army knife, Swiss army knife. Yeah. Like the
[21:07] Speaker 2: cake roll.
[21:09] Speaker 3: God, I forgot about the cake roll that's another thing.
[21:12] Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I don't know that they know that Little
[21:14] Speaker 2: Debbie is putting their name on its cake rolls, because
[21:19] Speaker 2: I think they would have a problem with that. Yeah, yeah,
[21:23] Speaker 2: look it up, Switzerland, You're not going to be happy.
[21:26] Speaker 2: So World War One was a threat. Obviously all of
[21:31] Speaker 2: Europe was fighting, but I don't believe Switzerland was drawn
[21:34] Speaker 2: into it much. World War Two was a much greater threat.
[21:37] Speaker 2: They had to work much harder to stay neutral and
[21:41] Speaker 2: to keep the other countries out. And when Germany occupied France,
[21:46] Speaker 2: all of a sudden, Switzerland was surrounded by the Axis
[21:50] Speaker 2: and it was a very nervous time. And they managed
[21:53] Speaker 2: to to amass an army of I think four hundred
[21:58] Speaker 2: thousand troops in the Alps, and they let everybody know
[22:03] Speaker 2: we're staying neutral, but if you come here, we're going
[22:06] Speaker 2: to beat you badly. And it generally worked. I saw
[22:09] Speaker 2: that they were accidentally bombed several times that other powers
[22:15] Speaker 2: basically said, oh, we didn't mean to bomb you, sorry,
[22:18] Speaker 2: but you know, we killed a bunch of your people.
[22:20] Speaker 2: But for the most part, you know, it worked in
[22:22] Speaker 2: that they were never invaded by anyone.
[22:26] Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
[22:27] Speaker 1: You know, just because your neutral doesn't mean that you
[22:30] Speaker 1: have like you're not taking part in anything to do
[22:32] Speaker 1: with the war. So they've as you'll see, you know,
[22:35] Speaker 1: we'll talk about a little later. They have a long
[22:36] Speaker 1: tradition of receiving refugees like war refugees, but kind of
[22:42] Speaker 1: shamefully like the US and a lot of other places
[22:45] Speaker 1: during in the aftermath or during World War Two, they
[22:49] Speaker 1: they prevented a lot of Jewish people from from the
[22:51] Speaker 1: Holocaust from finding refuge there. So that's that's one of
[22:54] Speaker 1: the sort of dark spots.
[22:56] Speaker 2: Sure. And then still today, if you are a man
[23:00] Speaker 2: between ages eighteen and thirty four, you have to enlist
[23:03] Speaker 2: in the military, or if you're a conscientious objector and
[23:07] Speaker 2: say I'm not carrying a gun around, you can also
[23:09] Speaker 2: there's some civilian services you can enlist in. And then
[23:13] Speaker 2: if you're a woman you can also do it, but
[23:15] Speaker 2: it's voluntary, you're not required to and I think today
[23:18] Speaker 2: they have one hundred and fifty thousand active and reserved troops,
[23:22] Speaker 2: and just like back in the day, each canton has
[23:26] Speaker 2: to fulfill a quota and they have their own civilian
[23:29] Speaker 2: defense forces.
[23:31] Speaker 1: That's right, which is you know, it would be foolish
[23:34] Speaker 1: not too at this point in world history for sure.
[23:37] Speaker 2: So yeah, there's still a military despite the fact that
[23:40] Speaker 2: they're neutral. I feel like we've managed to drive that
[23:44] Speaker 2: point home.
[23:47] Speaker 3: That's the stuff you should know. Ay, So.
[23:50] Speaker 1: This whole idea that we mentioned kind of early on,
[23:52] Speaker 1: as as Switzerland taking an active role in neutrality and
[23:55] Speaker 1: not just being like, hey, just leave us alone, sure,
[23:57] Speaker 1: where they're like, we will host your your dealings with
[24:02] Speaker 1: one another, and we've become a center of arbitration for
[24:04] Speaker 1: the world. Basically that started out basically in like the
[24:08] Speaker 1: mid nineteenth century. The Geneva and Basil Chambers of Commerce
[24:14] Speaker 1: said hey, let's get a system together and let's make
[24:17] Speaker 1: this like, let's get serious about this and put some
[24:20] Speaker 1: structure around what we want to do. And they got
[24:23] Speaker 1: their first stab at that, I guess in eighteen seventy two,
[24:26] Speaker 1: when it was around the Civil War, when negotiators from
[24:30] Speaker 1: the United States and Great Britain went to Geneva and
[24:34] Speaker 1: worked out what we're called the Alabama Claims, which were
[24:37] Speaker 1: about losses caused by these British built Confederate ships, one
[24:41] Speaker 1: of which was the Alabama during the Civil War. Britain
[24:45] Speaker 1: ended up having to pay damages there and that started
[24:48] Speaker 1: the whole system of like saying, hey, Geneva's pretty nice,
[24:51] Speaker 1: you guys, we're pretty chill, and why don't you just
[24:55] Speaker 1: come here to settle your disputes in our courtroom, the
[24:59] Speaker 1: people's court, right, and then the bongo jobs started.
[25:03] Speaker 2: I did not see Alabama coming up in an episode
[25:06] Speaker 2: on Swiss New Neutrality, did you.
[25:08] Speaker 3: I did not either.
[25:10] Speaker 2: So since then, like you said, they literally wrote the
[25:13] Speaker 2: rules on arbitration, and since then, like they have had
[25:17] Speaker 2: some pretty high profile arbitration meetings, so much so that
[25:21] Speaker 2: they eventually worked what are called the good Offices, which
[25:26] Speaker 2: are everything from like a meeting place to mediation services
[25:32] Speaker 2: for arbitration. It's worked into the Swiss Federal constitution, so
[25:37] Speaker 2: they like that's a huge part of Switzerland maintaining its neutrality,
[25:42] Speaker 2: as saying like, come take advantage of our neutral territory,
[25:46] Speaker 2: like this is a place where you can meet and
[25:49] Speaker 2: work out your differences. Let's all just work out our differences.
[25:52] Speaker 2: Guy and I saw chook. One other thing that they do,
[25:55] Speaker 2: which is really surprising. They represent the interests of country
[26:00] Speaker 2: who are not speaking to each other. So I think
[26:03] Speaker 2: that they represent Iran in Canada. So let's take Iran's like,
[26:08] Speaker 2: we're not even talking to you Canada anymore. We're gonna
[26:11] Speaker 2: get Switzerland to meet with you. We're not even going
[26:13] Speaker 2: to be in the same room with you. They do
[26:15] Speaker 2: that for several different countries.
[26:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's uh, they provide a service. I
[26:21] Speaker 1: wonder what kind of like do they charge a fee
[26:23] Speaker 1: for this?
[26:24] Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure that there's fees involved.
[26:28] Speaker 1: Sure, even if it's just like you know, the hotels
[26:31] Speaker 1: in Geneva are very overprised.
[26:33] Speaker 2: Dude, I'll bet you their like, like coffee service at
[26:36] Speaker 2: these meetings.
[26:37] Speaker 3: And comences are amazing.
[26:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean because they got they got to get
[26:42] Speaker 1: something out of it besides neutrality.
[26:44] Speaker 2: Sure. So, I you know, I knew like the Swiss
[26:49] Speaker 2: were known for being very business like. I did not
[26:52] Speaker 2: realize the extent that that is true. I believe that
[26:57] Speaker 2: the Swiss mentality is generally like, yes, it's business. We
[27:01] Speaker 2: conduct our business appropriately fairly, like we are really good
[27:05] Speaker 2: at it. We have good contracts, like we are really
[27:08] Speaker 2: business like, and that that is like, yes, that they
[27:13] Speaker 2: are probably getting something for all of the services they're providing,
[27:17] Speaker 2: because that's business.
[27:19] Speaker 3: Yeah for sure. Yeah, I bet you're absolutely right.
[27:23] Speaker 1: They're also known for their real push toward humanitarian aid
[27:28] Speaker 1: all around the world, especially during times of conflict. Yeah,
[27:32] Speaker 1: no less than the Red Cross, still based in Geneva,
[27:38] Speaker 1: and if you look at their symbol, it's the inverse
[27:41] Speaker 1: of the Swiss flag and that's no accident. But that
[27:44] Speaker 1: all started out because of a Genevan businessman named Henry
[27:48] Speaker 1: Jannant Saint Henry, Yeah for real. In eighteen fifty nine,
[27:54] Speaker 1: he was in Sulfarino, a town in the north of
[27:58] Speaker 1: Italy who's there for work, and he saw the aftermath
[28:01] Speaker 1: of a battle between French and Austria and saw like
[28:04] Speaker 1: forty thousand you know, dead and wounded soldiers all about him,
[28:07] Speaker 1: and it really really moved him and put a dent
[28:11] Speaker 1: in a psyche. I think because he got like personally involved,
[28:15] Speaker 1: started helping out locals, started providing medical assistance, dressing wounds,
[28:20] Speaker 1: like you know, literally himself doing this and spoke to
[28:23] Speaker 1: French officials. It was like, hey, you got a bunch
[28:25] Speaker 1: of Austrian surgeons who are POW's, like, let them out
[28:29] Speaker 1: and let them help their own people, and let them
[28:30] Speaker 1: help your people. And it moved him to the point
[28:34] Speaker 1: where he kind of dedicated his life to it. He
[28:36] Speaker 1: wrote a book called A Memory of Sulfurino and talked
[28:40] Speaker 1: about these experiences in the creation of these committees that
[28:43] Speaker 1: would train volunteers, and that's the stuff that would become
[28:46] Speaker 1: the first national Red Cross Society.
[28:48] Speaker 2: Yeah you feel like, okay, that's pretty impressive. Well prepare
[28:53] Speaker 2: for this one too. You've heard of the Geneva Convention
[28:56] Speaker 2: of the Treatment of Prisoners of War.
[29:00] Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well.
[29:01] Speaker 2: That was his work. He started arguing and lobbying for
[29:05] Speaker 2: some sort of international agreements on how to treat the
[29:08] Speaker 2: sick and the wounded in the prisoners of war and
[29:11] Speaker 2: that became the first Geneva Convention in eighteen sixty four.
[29:15] Speaker 3: Pretty great.
[29:17] Speaker 1: And the YMCA that you know in love he didn't
[29:20] Speaker 1: create the YMCA, but do not really made it a
[29:23] Speaker 1: global global movement and the World Alliance of the YMCA
[29:27] Speaker 1: is also still in Geneva.
[29:29] Speaker 2: So two things when I hear YMCA, obviously think village people.
[29:33] Speaker 2: But I also think of this great moment from a
[29:35] Speaker 2: Simpsons episode where Lionel Hutts is staying there at the
[29:39] Speaker 2: YMCA and he's asleep, sitting down with his backup against
[29:43] Speaker 2: the wall and his knees pulled up to his chest
[29:45] Speaker 2: and his elbows on his knees and his head down,
[29:47] Speaker 2: so you can imagine, and I think Bart and Lisa
[29:50] Speaker 2: walk up and wake him up, and he suddenly comes
[29:53] Speaker 2: awake and he has it. He brandishes a knife and
[29:56] Speaker 2: he says, don't touch my stuff. Like that's he was
[29:59] Speaker 2: staying at the YA. That was his experience there.
[30:02] Speaker 3: That's pretty good. I love it, oh man, Lionel huts
[30:05] Speaker 3: was the best.
[30:06] Speaker 2: Yes he was, so if you're like, okay, still Dunant's impressive.
[30:12] Speaker 2: But he was probably also just some crazy billionaire who
[30:15] Speaker 2: just wanted to make a good name for himself wrong.
[30:18] Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, all of this humanitarian work
[30:21] Speaker 2: that he focused on led to him becoming bankrupt. He
[30:25] Speaker 2: wasn't paying enough attention to his business, and so he
[30:28] Speaker 2: lost his business, became bankrupt and essentially unknown for a
[30:32] Speaker 2: couple of decades until eighteen ninety five. There was a
[30:36] Speaker 2: journalist who's like, oh my god, this guy. I know
[30:38] Speaker 2: this guy, and he's living like obscurely in poverty. I
[30:42] Speaker 2: need to let everybody know about him. And he was
[30:45] Speaker 2: one of the co recipients of the first Nobel Peace
[30:48] Speaker 2: Prize in nineteen oh one. Quite rightfully so. But this
[30:51] Speaker 2: guy was seriously, legitimately a good person.
[30:57] Speaker 3: Yeah, we've seen this kind of one of my favorite things.
[31:00] Speaker 1: It happen quite a bit in history where someone has
[31:02] Speaker 1: done great things, but we're sort of lost to history,
[31:04] Speaker 1: and then some journalists or somebody in or historian dug
[31:08] Speaker 1: them up, well not literally, but you know, dug up
[31:12] Speaker 1: their legacy and brushed it off and said, hey, how
[31:14] Speaker 1: about this awesome person that we kind of forgot about.
[31:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nice when they're still alive too, so they
[31:19] Speaker 2: can get the recognition. And maybe you're like, Okay, I'll
[31:22] Speaker 2: bet he owned slaves or something like that. Nope, he
[31:24] Speaker 2: was agitating for the abolition of slavery, or he was
[31:28] Speaker 2: a gun nut. Nope, agitating for disarmament like he was.
[31:33] Speaker 2: He was a humanitarian, if there was ever a humanitarian.
[31:39] Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, I say we take another break.
[31:41] Speaker 2: Is that good? Yeah? I think we're at a good break.
[31:44] Speaker 2: Let's all just think about how great Henry Don is.
[31:47] Speaker 3: All right, Let's spend a few moments doing that, and
[31:49] Speaker 3: we'll be right back. All right. I dwelled on the.
[32:13] Speaker 1: Life of Henry do not, and I feel even better
[32:16] Speaker 1: than I did a few minutes ago.
[32:17] Speaker 2: Same.
[32:19] Speaker 1: But we're gonna move on and talk a little bit
[32:21] Speaker 1: about some of the you know, it's not all I
[32:23] Speaker 1: talked about, you know, one sort of darkness and that
[32:27] Speaker 1: they didn't allow Jewish refugees en mass during World War Two.
[32:32] Speaker 1: There's some other stuff that they have on their record
[32:34] Speaker 1: that's not the greatest in the world. I guess we
[32:37] Speaker 1: should talk about Nazi gold a little bit. But in
[32:40] Speaker 1: order to talk about that, we should probably talk a
[32:42] Speaker 1: little bit about just there. You know, you talked about
[32:45] Speaker 1: them being, you know, brilliant business people and a center
[32:48] Speaker 1: for business around the world. That happened because after they
[32:52] Speaker 1: became formerly neutral in eighteen fifteen, they said, you know what,
[32:57] Speaker 1: this is probably a good place for people to put
[32:59] Speaker 1: their mind because we're neutral.
[33:02] Speaker 3: It's safe.
[33:03] Speaker 1: Anytime there's a lot of chaos around the world, like
[33:05] Speaker 1: with World Wars, everyone knows that they can come here
[33:09] Speaker 1: and do some banking. We may not be like, you know,
[33:13] Speaker 1: like a world banking center with like by the likes
[33:16] Speaker 1: of London or Berlin, but we can become pretty quietly
[33:22] Speaker 1: powerful in our own way, especially if we tell everyone
[33:25] Speaker 1: that all their business will be super private, if you
[33:28] Speaker 1: know what I'm saying.
[33:28] Speaker 2: Yeah, they put an emphasis on that kind of thing,
[33:31] Speaker 2: where like, if you open an account in Switzerland for
[33:34] Speaker 2: decades and most of the twentieth century in fact, if
[33:37] Speaker 2: not longer, you could have a secret bank account where
[33:42] Speaker 2: like nobody could really figure it out. And that's it's
[33:45] Speaker 2: not fully true. Like I think if say the US
[33:48] Speaker 2: government came with a subpoena to find out who the
[33:51] Speaker 2: owner was of a specific account, this was we'd cooperate
[33:54] Speaker 2: with them. But for the most part, this was secret stuff, right,
[33:58] Speaker 2: and that was how they made their name as an
[34:01] Speaker 2: international banking center. But also because like again they are
[34:06] Speaker 2: really really good at business, so you knew that this
[34:10] Speaker 2: was like your money was safe not just because Switzerland
[34:13] Speaker 2: was stable, but because their banking system was incredibly stable.
[34:17] Speaker 2: So a lot of people took advantage of that. Dictators,
[34:20] Speaker 2: money launders, eventually, drug dealers, terrorists, basically anyone Jackie Chanen,
[34:27] Speaker 2: anyone you can think of who wanted to evade taxes,
[34:31] Speaker 2: launder money, or just wanted to have their money stashed away,
[34:35] Speaker 2: you know, quietly, and weren't really breaking any laws. You
[34:41] Speaker 2: went to Switzerland. Like it's almost a trope. I think
[34:45] Speaker 2: it is a true the secret Swiss bank account that
[34:48] Speaker 2: you would have money transferred to.
[34:50] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that officially became official with the Federal Banking
[34:53] Speaker 1: Act of nineteen thirty four, to the utter delight of
[34:56] Speaker 1: screenwriters everywhere then and to come. But that unfortunately dried
[35:02] Speaker 1: up in the nineteen nineties when they were like, all right,
[35:05] Speaker 1: no more secret accounts. I guess we got to get
[35:07] Speaker 1: rid of that provision. But yeah, it worked this way
[35:11] Speaker 1: into a lot of movies over the years, just like
[35:14] Speaker 1: you know, a numbered Swiss bank account that's growing up with,
[35:17] Speaker 1: especially like Cold War movies and stuff like that, spy thrillers.
[35:21] Speaker 1: It was always like a secret Swiss bank account. I
[35:23] Speaker 1: feel like at play.
[35:24] Speaker 2: They ended up removing that ability from the Swiss banking
[35:30] Speaker 2: system because it started to come out just how many
[35:35] Speaker 2: bad guys, right, we're using it where in Switzerland was
[35:39] Speaker 2: allowing it to happen, So their banking system took a hit,
[35:44] Speaker 2: you know, it's image, and they're like, we can't afford
[35:46] Speaker 2: to do that. We're not making enough money off of
[35:49] Speaker 2: drug dealers and terrorists. We need to you know, brush
[35:52] Speaker 2: our image back up. So that's when they got rid
[35:54] Speaker 2: of that.
[35:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, and their image probably needed a little brushing up
[35:59] Speaker 1: because you know, I think I mentioned something about Nazi gold,
[36:02] Speaker 1: or if I didn't, I'm mentioning it for the first
[36:04] Speaker 1: time now. But they because of World War Two, they
[36:08] Speaker 1: the Swiss National Bank ended up buying about four hundred
[36:11] Speaker 1: and forty million dollars in Nazi gold, which was basically,
[36:16] Speaker 1: you know, laundering that gold that was plundered that we've
[36:19] Speaker 1: talked about a lot of times, like the plundering of
[36:22] Speaker 1: World War two of the Germans from you know, different countries,
[36:27] Speaker 1: brutally from Holocaust victims. I know, we've mentioned stuff like
[36:30] Speaker 1: gold dental fillings and stuff. Yeah that was real, Yeah,
[36:34] Speaker 1: from Jewish concentration camp victims. And so it's not a
[36:38] Speaker 1: good look for the Swiss National Bank to be holding
[36:40] Speaker 1: onto this stuff. So later, with the Washington Agreement of
[36:44] Speaker 1: nineteen forty six, they were made to return, well at
[36:48] Speaker 1: least some of that Nazi gold not much of it,
[36:50] Speaker 1: only about twelve percent of it supposedly to its rightful owners,
[36:55] Speaker 1: and that's you know. They ended up using it for
[36:58] Speaker 1: other stuff too, though. They used to sometimes is funds
[37:01] Speaker 1: to repay citizens of Switzerland who had seized property by
[37:05] Speaker 1: communist regimes in Europe. So they were like, hey, maybe
[37:08] Speaker 1: we'll use some of this Nazi gold to repay our
[37:10] Speaker 1: own coffers.
[37:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, and you said that, they, you know, basically laundered it.
[37:14] Speaker 2: They one hundred percent laundered this. So they the Nazis
[37:17] Speaker 2: showed up with literally tons and tons of gold, hundreds
[37:20] Speaker 2: of tons of gold that was stolen from other countries,
[37:24] Speaker 2: gave it to Switzerland. Switzerland gave the Nazi regime money,
[37:28] Speaker 2: lots and lots of money in return, and then Switzerland
[37:31] Speaker 2: turned around and took that gold and sold it to
[37:33] Speaker 2: Spain and Portugal. So they fenced stolen gold for the
[37:37] Speaker 2: Nazis and gave the Nazis money in return. It's as
[37:39] Speaker 2: simple as that. People then know this until the nineteen nineties,
[37:43] Speaker 2: when Switzerland was sued by a few organizations, including the
[37:47] Speaker 2: World Jewish Congress. That was bad enough. So this is
[37:51] Speaker 2: coming out at the same time that the secret account
[37:53] Speaker 2: stuff is coming out too, So Switzerland's taking like one,
[37:56] Speaker 2: two punches, haymakers, ropidopes even left and right. And then
[38:01] Speaker 2: on top of that, even worse, you said that they
[38:05] Speaker 2: were returning twelve percent of the Nazi gold to its
[38:07] Speaker 2: rightful owners as part of the Washington Agreement of nineteen
[38:10] Speaker 2: forty six. Well, a lot of people who were fleeing
[38:14] Speaker 2: Germany or fleeing the Nazi regime, or fleeing the Holocaust
[38:18] Speaker 2: but wanted to kind of keep their valuables in a
[38:22] Speaker 2: safe place went to Switzerland to put money in bank accounts,
[38:25] Speaker 2: to put valuable items in safe deposit boxes. And after
[38:30] Speaker 2: the war ended, their heirs would show up and say,
[38:33] Speaker 2: you know, my grandpa or my dad or somebody put this,
[38:37] Speaker 2: you know, this family heirloom, this hope diamond in a
[38:41] Speaker 2: safe deposit box in your bank, and I'm here to
[38:44] Speaker 2: claim it. Here's all the documentation that i'm their rightful heir.
[38:47] Speaker 2: And they would say, all of your papers look like
[38:49] Speaker 2: they're in order, but I don't see a death certificate.
[38:52] Speaker 2: And the air would say, well, my father or grandpa
[38:56] Speaker 2: or whatever died in a concentration camp. The Nazis didn't
[38:59] Speaker 2: issue death certific kids for that they kind of wanted
[39:01] Speaker 2: to keep it secret, and this Swiss would say, sorry,
[39:03] Speaker 2: can't help you, and they did that across the board.
[39:06] Speaker 2: So they basically kept hundreds of millions of dollars is
[39:10] Speaker 2: the accusation of legitimate deposits from legitimate errors of victims
[39:18] Speaker 2: of the Holocaust.
[39:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, and well a lot of times they didn't even
[39:22] Speaker 1: have documentation at all, you know, much less death certificates
[39:25] Speaker 1: because that stuff was destroyed in the war. Finally, in
[39:29] Speaker 1: nineteen forty six they promised to say, all right, we're
[39:33] Speaker 1: gonna find these assets of Holocaust victims from people who
[39:39] Speaker 1: have no like, identifiable errors, and we're going to at
[39:42] Speaker 1: least transfer them to a Jewish reconstruction organization. And decades
[39:47] Speaker 1: later they basically concluded that that didn't really happen. And
[39:53] Speaker 1: then nineteen ninety I think was when you said, finally,
[39:56] Speaker 1: like fully like was exposed and there was a sus
[40:00] Speaker 1: from the World Jewish Congress that got a one point
[40:02] Speaker 1: two to five billion dollar settlement.
[40:04] Speaker 3: Finally in nineteen ninety eight.
[40:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, and again since then, the Swiss have been doing
[40:09] Speaker 2: everything they can to kind of rehabilitate their image, but
[40:13] Speaker 2: at the same time, they have also shown like they're
[40:15] Speaker 2: not ones to just immediately bow to international pressure. The
[40:19] Speaker 2: way that you get them is to hit them in
[40:21] Speaker 2: their pocketbooks, like threaten their business or their entire banking industry.
[40:26] Speaker 2: That's kind of what the pressure from the outside world
[40:28] Speaker 2: was doing. Yeah, so sure they seem to have rebounded largely.
[40:34] Speaker 2: There are some other things that make Switzerland peculiar too
[40:37] Speaker 2: that are much less evil or dark. One is that
[40:41] Speaker 2: they really are in a kind of a weird position
[40:44] Speaker 2: as far as international groups go. Like in some ways,
[40:48] Speaker 2: like it makes a lot of sense that they're the
[40:50] Speaker 2: host of the International Red Cross headquarters Geneva, is right,
[40:55] Speaker 2: But what about the UN? Should they be members of
[40:58] Speaker 2: the UN? The UN? Does they have like peacekeeping troops
[41:01] Speaker 2: with guns and stuff like that? Is what are the
[41:03] Speaker 2: ramifications of Switzerland joining the UN? And they debated that
[41:08] Speaker 2: for decades.
[41:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, they finally, I mean it wasn't until two thousand
[41:12] Speaker 1: and two that they even joined the UN. And like
[41:15] Speaker 1: you said, it took a long time to kind of
[41:17] Speaker 1: work out internally whether or not that's something they wanted
[41:20] Speaker 1: to do or that would kind of ruin all those
[41:23] Speaker 1: decades and decades of neutrality that they had become known for.
[41:28] Speaker 1: There was a referendum that they eventually voted on whether
[41:30] Speaker 1: or not to become a member, and advocates said, you
[41:35] Speaker 1: know what, if we get involved with them, we can
[41:39] Speaker 1: get involved and still like be committed to mediation and
[41:42] Speaker 1: humanitarian aid, like that will be our role within the UN.
[41:45] Speaker 2: Right.
[41:45] Speaker 3: And it was a pretty close vote.
[41:47] Speaker 1: It was fifty four point six in favor and twelve yeah,
[41:51] Speaker 1: almost like right at half. Twelve out of the twenty
[41:53] Speaker 1: three cantons voted yes. And then finally in twenty twenty
[41:58] Speaker 1: three it became a non permanent member of the UN Security.
[42:01] Speaker 3: Council, that's those peacekeeping troops.
[42:04] Speaker 1: That's right, And that was another you know, it wasn't
[42:08] Speaker 1: It was pretty evenly split as well, so like even
[42:10] Speaker 1: within the country they've always sort of hedged like whether
[42:14] Speaker 1: or not they wanted to support joining up with these
[42:16] Speaker 1: world groups, you know.
[42:18] Speaker 2: Right exactly, and for good reason too. I mean it's
[42:20] Speaker 2: tricky stuff. One of the places or one of the
[42:25] Speaker 2: groups that they are just roundly rejecting, so much so
[42:28] Speaker 2: that they basically told the EU like we're not we're
[42:30] Speaker 2: not negotiating anymore, We're not joining the European Union, and
[42:35] Speaker 2: the reason why they actually have pretty legitimate reasons why,
[42:38] Speaker 2: especially if you come at life from a business like attitude.
[42:42] Speaker 2: But one is that they would immediately be a net contributor.
[42:45] Speaker 2: They would be paying out way more than they were
[42:48] Speaker 2: benefiting from being a member of the EU. And the
[42:52] Speaker 2: reason why is because they basically have cherry treaties with
[42:55] Speaker 2: all of the European countries to do business with them,
[42:59] Speaker 2: which is like the attractive thing for a rich country
[43:02] Speaker 2: to join the EU. So they have that without being
[43:05] Speaker 2: part of the EU, without having to pay into the
[43:08] Speaker 2: EU right now, So they have the best of both
[43:11] Speaker 2: worlds and really negative incentive, a number of negative incentives
[43:16] Speaker 2: to join the EU.
[43:18] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[43:19] Speaker 1: Another is they just they really love taking care of
[43:21] Speaker 1: their own business what they would call direct democracy and
[43:25] Speaker 1: deciding for them what's best for them. And if you're
[43:28] Speaker 1: part of the EU, then obviously you're part of a
[43:31] Speaker 1: larger collective and you don't like just individual citizens' ability
[43:35] Speaker 1: to decide things for themselves and hold those referendums that
[43:40] Speaker 1: would go away, and so they're not into that. And
[43:43] Speaker 1: also just you know, they built up this neutral brand
[43:46] Speaker 1: over the years and it's not like branding, branding but
[43:48] Speaker 1: it kind of is, and that they don't want to
[43:52] Speaker 1: just throw that all away. After again, you know, more
[43:55] Speaker 1: than one hundred years more than that actually of like
[44:00] Speaker 1: being known. Like you know, when you think neutral and
[44:02] Speaker 1: you think chocolate and you think cuckoo clocks and army knives,
[44:08] Speaker 1: you think of Switzerland, and they don't want that to
[44:10] Speaker 1: go away.
[44:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, when you think thirst, you think sprite. When you
[44:14] Speaker 2: think neutral, you think of Switzerland.
[44:16] Speaker 3: That's right.
[44:17] Speaker 2: There's another thing too that being a member of the
[44:20] Speaker 2: EU means that any member nation or the residents of
[44:24] Speaker 2: any member nation or the EU can move to your
[44:26] Speaker 2: place unrestricted as far as I know. So immigration is
[44:30] Speaker 2: free throughout the European Union, and Switzerland's like, we actually
[44:34] Speaker 2: are pretty strict on immigration, and we're worried that if
[44:38] Speaker 2: we get a lot of people migrating to Switzerland, the
[44:42] Speaker 2: wages in Switzerland are going to start to be decompressed
[44:45] Speaker 2: because a lot of people migrating here are willing to
[44:48] Speaker 2: accept far less than what the average Swiss person is paid.
[44:52] Speaker 2: So yeah, essentially, every they have all these incentives, you know,
[44:57] Speaker 2: morally upstanding or not to not join the EU, and
[45:00] Speaker 2: it does not look like they are ever going to
[45:02] Speaker 2: join the EU.
[45:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, or NATO obviously, that's a warring organization for sure,
[45:07] Speaker 1: or not a warring organization, but a military alliance for sure.
[45:11] Speaker 2: And for all of its blemishes and rough spots and
[45:13] Speaker 2: all that, I hope Switzerland stays Switzerland.
[45:16] Speaker 3: You know, it would be I think everyone does.
[45:18] Speaker 2: I think the world would kind of lose something if
[45:20] Speaker 2: if Switzerland just became like any other country. You know, agreed, Well,
[45:25] Speaker 2: that's Switzerland, Chuck, Swiss neutrality, I should say, that's right.
[45:30] Speaker 2: If you want to know more about Swiss neutrality, travel
[45:33] Speaker 2: of Switzerland, or watch a documentary on Switzerland. And in
[45:37] Speaker 2: the meantime, it's time for listener mail.
[45:43] Speaker 1: There's another Mash follow up. Hey guys, huge Mash fan.
[45:47] Speaker 1: I'm a bit older than Chuck and still only twelve
[45:51] Speaker 1: when it debuted. It was a perfect blend of comedy
[45:53] Speaker 1: and poignant drama showing the horrors of war. I always
[45:56] Speaker 1: thought the writing was brilliant and did take characters on
[45:59] Speaker 1: a great growth art being a closeted gay kid now
[46:03] Speaker 1: openly and very happy gay man.
[46:06] Speaker 3: It was one of the first times.
[46:07] Speaker 1: That a TV show dealt with the subject of homosexuality
[46:10] Speaker 1: in a sympathetic way, even if only on one episode.
[46:13] Speaker 1: I was such a fan that I'd developed a mash
[46:15] Speaker 1: trivia game similar to Trivial Pursuit, and a number of
[46:18] Speaker 1: details you mentioned in your episode were part of the game,
[46:21] Speaker 1: like Toledo and Tony Pacos.
[46:24] Speaker 3: So great job, guys.
[46:25] Speaker 1: You always do a great job and are so pleasant
[46:26] Speaker 1: to listen to on my daily walks and whenever you
[46:29] Speaker 1: guys touch on LGTVQ plus topics.
[46:32] Speaker 3: You do an amazing jobs to straight guys. So thank
[46:35] Speaker 3: you for that.
[46:35] Speaker 1: And that is from Dave in Vancouver. And Dave, I
[46:38] Speaker 1: hope you're coming to see our live.
[46:40] Speaker 3: Show in Vancouver. Yeah, we can't wait.
[46:42] Speaker 1: There's still tickets available for all of the Well, I
[46:45] Speaker 1: guess the first LUG will be over by this time,
[46:47] Speaker 1: but that second leg in July I believe is probably
[46:50] Speaker 1: somewhere around this time.
[46:51] Speaker 3: We'd love to see everyone.
[46:52] Speaker 2: Coming up quick, Dave, So yeah, we'd love to see
[46:56] Speaker 2: you too. You can watch Just be Too Straight Guys
[46:58] Speaker 2: live and in person.
[47:00] Speaker 3: That's right.
[47:01] Speaker 2: If you want to be like Dave and let us
[47:03] Speaker 2: know how much you like us, we really appreciate those
[47:05] Speaker 2: kind of emails. Or you can say whatever you like
[47:08] Speaker 2: whatever you have to say, send it off to stuff
[47:11] Speaker 2: Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.
[47:17] Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
[47:20] Speaker 3: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
[47:25] Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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