# The 2025 Post-Mortem with ESPN's Bill Connelly | College Football

An episode of [The Solid Verbal College Football Show](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/270037732), 23 Dec 2025, 1 h 15 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/21437ee1-47d9-4b16-8696-b30d011a2c26/0b0209cb-2071-4c87-aac2-b3bc000e7812/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=51c7e0eb-425c-4d93-b5a8-b30d011a2c46

With Dan on vacation and the regular season officially in the books, Ty invited ESPN's Bill Connelly back to the pod to help us put the 2025 campaign in perspective. In this episode, we discuss the biggest risers, most head-scratching fallers, and how Indiana and Texas Tech are the best stories of the year. Plus, a conversation about how the Group of Five should fit into the CFP discussion, what to watch for in non-playoff bowls, what it felt like for Bill to be part of the Mountain West's tiebreaker, and how Bill's new book, Forward Progress: The Definitive Guide to the Future of College Football, can be instructive as college football forges ahead into uncertain territory. Support the show!: https://www.patreon.com/solidverbal See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal Hell for me, I'm a man,
[0:07] Speaker 1: I'm forty.
[0:08] Speaker 2: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to
[0:10] Speaker 2: be happy.
[0:10] Speaker 1: You want to be happy for a day? Ato state?
[0:13] Speaker 2: Is that? Whoo whoom?
[0:14] Speaker 1: And Dan and Tye.
[0:18] Speaker 2: Revollers, welcome back to the show. My name is ty Hildebrandt.
[0:23] Speaker 2: My beloved co host Dan Rubinstein is currently enjoying the
[0:26] Speaker 2: sun and surf at an undisclosed location. He will be
[0:31] Speaker 2: back with us on Sunday when we drop our college
[0:35] Speaker 2: football playoff quarterfinal preview episode. Please hit follow, Please hit
[0:40] Speaker 2: subscribes that you do not miss any of our episodes.
[0:43] Speaker 3: Also going out.
[0:44] Speaker 2: To play bowlbingo dot com if you want to get
[0:47] Speaker 2: in on the action our little postseason game that we're
[0:50] Speaker 2: running over the next couple of weeks.
[0:52] Speaker 3: It's free for everybody.
[0:53] Speaker 2: All you got to do is sign up as a
[0:55] Speaker 2: free or paid member of our Patreon. Again, go to
[0:58] Speaker 2: play Bowl Bingo if you are interested in that. So,
[1:03] Speaker 2: this episode is dropping on December the twenty third, known
[1:06] Speaker 2: in some circles as Festivus, which means I needed to
[1:11] Speaker 2: bring on a guest who could help me air some grievances,
[1:14] Speaker 2: and for that I have invited on our good friend
[1:17] Speaker 2: Bill Connolly of ESPN, the author of a book titled
[1:21] Speaker 2: Forward Progress, which we'll get into here momentarily. Bill is
[1:25] Speaker 2: one of the most trusted voices in all of college football.
[1:29] Speaker 2: He understands it on an analytical level that few do.
[1:32] Speaker 2: He also is a fan of the sport and wants
[1:35] Speaker 2: the best for it, which is why he wrote the book.
[1:36] Speaker 2: So we're going to get into that and much much more.
[1:39] Speaker 2: We're also going to talk through what his expectations are
[1:43] Speaker 2: moving forward among some of the teams that are part
[1:47] Speaker 2: of this playoff, amongst some that aren't who he is
[1:50] Speaker 2: watching for in the transfer portal, coaches that he thinks
[1:53] Speaker 2: are going to be a slam dunk at their next location.
[1:56] Speaker 3: Just a bunch of stuff that I know is on
[1:57] Speaker 3: people's minds.
[1:58] Speaker 2: We have been doing this post mortem of sorts now
[2:01] Speaker 2: for the last couple of years running, so it's a
[2:03] Speaker 2: pleasure as always to bring Bill back on the show again.
[2:07] Speaker 2: Thank you as always for downloading, for listening, for subscribing
[2:09] Speaker 2: and supporting what Dan and I do here. Let's run
[2:13] Speaker 2: that interview. I'll catch you on the flip side.
[2:15] Speaker 3: All right, joining us now.
[2:16] Speaker 2: One of our best friends He's been on the show
[2:18] Speaker 2: a million times. We've done this show a couple years
[2:21] Speaker 2: running now where we bring them on at the end
[2:23] Speaker 2: sort of do a little bit of a post mortem
[2:25] Speaker 2: talk through what's going on in and around the world
[2:28] Speaker 2: of college football. Of course, he is the esteemed author
[2:31] Speaker 2: of Forward Progress, the definitive Guide to the Future of
[2:35] Speaker 2: college football. I could think of no one better to
[2:38] Speaker 2: bring on at this pivotal moment in college football that
[2:41] Speaker 2: our friend Bill Connolly from ESPN. Sir, welcome, How.
[2:44] Speaker 1: Are you pretty good? It's been a little while, it has.
[2:48] Speaker 3: It was not intentional, what you been up to anything like?
[2:50] Speaker 1: No, nothing, just just hang it out.
[2:55] Speaker 4: No, there seems to have been plenty to keep us
[2:57] Speaker 4: distracted here, so I'm glad we got to connect.
[3:00] Speaker 2: So this episode is dropping on December the twenty third,
[3:02] Speaker 2: which of course is Festivus, and I thought maybe we
[3:06] Speaker 2: could start off this conversation with some airing of grievances.
[3:10] Speaker 3: The tradition of Festivus begins with the airing of grievances.
[3:15] Speaker 2: So my grievance is about the G five playoff spot
[3:19] Speaker 2: and the conversation around it. Obviously, both Tulane and James
[3:24] Speaker 2: Madison got drilled by opponents who.
[3:26] Speaker 3: Were way better. Obviously, that is not a great look.
[3:29] Speaker 3: I get that.
[3:31] Speaker 2: However, immediately the conversation shifted to throwing the baby out
[3:35] Speaker 2: with the bathwater. Right, these teams do not belong, they
[3:38] Speaker 2: should not play. Yes, we should give them a pathway in,
[3:41] Speaker 2: but let's be real about this. I we obviously understand
[3:46] Speaker 2: both sides of that argument, Bill, and I think you
[3:48] Speaker 2: and I are probably more like minded on this topic
[3:51] Speaker 2: than most. But I'll ask you, because I know you
[3:54] Speaker 2: have talked about this for many years now, what is
[3:58] Speaker 2: the solution given where we are at now in college football?
[4:02] Speaker 1: Well, I mean step one, build a time machine.
[4:06] Speaker 4: No, I'll forever be kind of bitter about the way
[4:09] Speaker 4: things played out here, well about how a lot of
[4:11] Speaker 4: things played out.
[4:12] Speaker 1: But with regard to this issue, I.
[4:15] Speaker 4: Mean, fifteen to twenty years ago, mid majors were at
[4:20] Speaker 4: the high step. It's kind of when we all got
[4:21] Speaker 4: started in this business. We got started in an industry
[4:24] Speaker 4: where a boise stake could happen, and then we've watched
[4:27] Speaker 4: over the last fifteen years they as the money distribution
[4:32] Speaker 4: and everything just got filtered and filtered and filtered and consolidated.
[4:36] Speaker 4: I guess it would be the right word to where
[4:39] Speaker 4: it's harder and harder to keep up. I looked it
[4:41] Speaker 4: up the other day in the last fifteen years expenses
[4:46] Speaker 4: for Big ten and SEC teams, actually it was fifteen
[4:48] Speaker 4: years from eight to twenty three.
[4:49] Speaker 1: It was the best data I could find.
[4:51] Speaker 4: So it's gone even up more the last two years obviously,
[4:54] Speaker 4: but as up twenty three, Big ten and SEC expenses
[4:57] Speaker 4: per team had gone up like two hundred and twenty percent,
[5:01] Speaker 4: and mid major like the average group of five had
[5:04] Speaker 4: gone up ninety six percent, which is still a lot
[5:06] Speaker 4: a lot of money in even group of five football,
[5:10] Speaker 4: But that's you know, the gap was always there and
[5:12] Speaker 4: now it's doubled in the last fifteen years, and so.
[5:16] Speaker 1: It's just harder, you know.
[5:17] Speaker 4: The the fact that it was James Madison playing that
[5:22] Speaker 4: evening game, Chilene just played like crap. Like they just
[5:25] Speaker 4: played like crap. They were never going to make enough stops,
[5:28] Speaker 4: but the offense just made stupid mistakes. They could have
[5:31] Speaker 4: that could have forty one ten, could have easily been
[5:33] Speaker 4: like thirty four to twenty, but.
[5:34] Speaker 1: They just didn't play well.
[5:36] Speaker 4: James Madison played fine, it was just Oregon was able
[5:38] Speaker 4: to say, hey, we're much faster than you over here
[5:42] Speaker 4: and over here, and we're just going to beat you
[5:44] Speaker 4: into the ground with being faster than you out out
[5:47] Speaker 4: here on the edge, you're not going to make enough
[5:49] Speaker 4: TFLs because we have the best offensive line you've seen
[5:51] Speaker 4: all year. But really it's just we're going to be
[5:53] Speaker 4: where we're.
[5:54] Speaker 1: Faster than you. We're going to be faster than you
[5:55] Speaker 1: on every play of the game. And that was it.
[5:57] Speaker 4: So know the fact that it was jam you in
[6:01] Speaker 4: that game, with seven players having left for number one Indiana,
[6:06] Speaker 4: five of them play a major role in top ranked,
[6:09] Speaker 4: unbeaten Indiana, it was kind of a very stark kind
[6:13] Speaker 4: of reminder of the era we're in.
[6:15] Speaker 1: If they have.
[6:15] Speaker 4: Those seven players, then you know they probably they're still
[6:19] Speaker 4: not better than organ but then you can at least
[6:21] Speaker 4: get into that kind of territory of you know, with
[6:23] Speaker 4: surrat and with you know, to starting in the end
[6:27] Speaker 4: defensive linemen and the great linebacker on all that you
[6:30] Speaker 4: can start kind of you know, if things break right,
[6:32] Speaker 4: maybe Jamie, you can win this game. And instead they
[6:34] Speaker 4: just didn't have the horses. So like the last fifteen
[6:39] Speaker 4: years made that happen and I hate. I've always hated.
[6:43] Speaker 1: You know.
[6:43] Speaker 4: One of our old PAPN lines was always about how
[6:46] Speaker 4: college football hates a usurper. We always we seem to
[6:49] Speaker 4: resent up and comers or ambitious programs more in the
[6:52] Speaker 4: sport than we do in others. And sometimes that's fun
[6:55] Speaker 4: because it creates a UCF situation where you know, people
[6:59] Speaker 4: are mad about it, and we got to kind of
[7:00] Speaker 4: lean into UCF a little bit and have fun with it.
[7:03] Speaker 4: But no, it's the rich kind of one. And therefore
[7:08] Speaker 4: we've created this situation. And you know, I'd like to
[7:14] Speaker 4: think that people would watch that and go, man, we've
[7:16] Speaker 4: screwed up the balance here. We need to make sure
[7:18] Speaker 4: that that mid majors can still compete. And instead the
[7:22] Speaker 4: overwriting conclusion was mid majors can't compete.
[7:25] Speaker 1: Cut them off.
[7:26] Speaker 4: And the compromise that I saw floated by I don't
[7:28] Speaker 4: remember who it was. I saw it first about like, well,
[7:30] Speaker 4: let's make a rankings requirement they need to be top
[7:33] Speaker 4: twenty to get in or something like that. Well, tell
[7:36] Speaker 4: me the committee won't start putting making every single good
[7:40] Speaker 4: mid major team twenty first.
[7:42] Speaker 1: If we do that, like.
[7:43] Speaker 4: I don't, will this will come into my own area
[7:46] Speaker 4: of grievances. But I don't trust the committee to even
[7:48] Speaker 4: slightly do that in a fair or responsible manner if
[7:51] Speaker 4: we put that requirement in there.
[7:53] Speaker 1: So it's either.
[7:54] Speaker 4: Keep including them, which by the way, they have to
[7:59] Speaker 4: because the anti tru anti trust. If all the whole
[8:02] Speaker 4: the G five should start its own playoff thing, that
[8:04] Speaker 4: would have to be a G five decision because otherwise,
[8:07] Speaker 4: you know, same issues as before with anti trust. But
[8:11] Speaker 4: we could any moment, we could start trying to actually
[8:14] Speaker 4: make the playing field more equal, and something tells me
[8:16] Speaker 4: we're not going to do that.
[8:17] Speaker 3: What does that look like? Making it more equal?
[8:20] Speaker 4: That was the hardest part of writing Forward Progress, honestly,
[8:22] Speaker 4: because we're in such a situation right now where you
[8:25] Speaker 4: really kind of have to brainstorm or create, you know,
[8:28] Speaker 4: in some future world where lots of thin current forces
[8:31] Speaker 4: have changed, because we know what system.
[8:33] Speaker 1: We're in right now.
[8:34] Speaker 4: We're you know, not only do the sec in the
[8:37] Speaker 4: Big ten make more money than everybody else, but somehow
[8:39] Speaker 4: they were handed power to control the playoff Like that
[8:43] Speaker 4: was mind blowing that they did that, Like everybody was
[8:48] Speaker 4: so scared of them creating a little breakaway thing that
[8:50] Speaker 4: they just gave the SEC and Big ten whatever they wanted,
[8:53] Speaker 4: whatever that was eighteen months ago or so, and we're here, like,
[8:57] Speaker 4: unless you have some sport wide crisis or government intervention
[9:02] Speaker 4: that includes hey, SEC in Big ten year too powerful
[9:05] Speaker 4: and we're going to strip you of some of that power,
[9:07] Speaker 4: which nobody's talking about doing, even within the legislation that
[9:11] Speaker 4: is being discussed.
[9:12] Speaker 1: I don't know.
[9:14] Speaker 4: It's very easy to create some sort of and I
[9:16] Speaker 4: put it in for a progress I'm just sort of
[9:20] Speaker 4: revenue sharing structure where everybody puts in X percent of
[9:23] Speaker 4: their money and it gets distributed throughout FBS, and suddenly
[9:25] Speaker 4: Louisiana Monroe has six million more to hold on to
[9:28] Speaker 4: some players, and Alio State still has the most money
[9:30] Speaker 4: even though they have slightly less.
[9:33] Speaker 1: You know, it's easy to talk about stuff like that.
[9:36] Speaker 4: Those are very doable solutions if there was a will
[9:41] Speaker 4: to do it. There's absolutely no will to even go
[9:43] Speaker 4: slightly in that direction, which is which is awesome. I
[9:46] Speaker 4: love talking about this.
[9:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm not trying to be too much of
[9:49] Speaker 2: a bummer, but I oh, I am, I'm clearly trying
[9:52] Speaker 2: to be pretty big.
[9:52] Speaker 1: Bummer right now.
[9:53] Speaker 2: Well, but I mean it's just it's the conversation right now,
[9:57] Speaker 2: and you know it has taken on manyfferent forms. The
[10:01] Speaker 2: thing that I come back to, I actually go back
[10:03] Speaker 2: to a more basic level with all of this, and
[10:07] Speaker 2: because I've been down in the trenches having this conversation
[10:10] Speaker 2: with people as well, this notion that the power for
[10:15] Speaker 2: is greater than is justified in many different ways. Talent disparity,
[10:22] Speaker 2: money as you just described, that part is undeniable here.
[10:25] Speaker 2: But if you are a G five program that wants
[10:28] Speaker 2: to be viewed as equal to other than jumping into
[10:33] Speaker 2: a POWERFO conference, which it's not like those invites are
[10:35] Speaker 2: growing on trees, there's almost no way to do it.
[10:38] Speaker 2: There really isn't. And I know people out there have
[10:40] Speaker 2: talked about, well, Cincinnati in twenty twenty one was definitely
[10:45] Speaker 2: they belonged in that conversation, and Boise State in twenty
[10:48] Speaker 2: twenty four they belonged in the conversation. I still think
[10:51] Speaker 2: in this new world, as you've described, those are kind
[10:54] Speaker 2: of like black Swan events that is not going to
[10:56] Speaker 2: be common. And so if we're relying on that soul
[11:00] Speaker 2: to include just these like extremities of the sport as
[11:04] Speaker 2: part of this playoff, thing. It seems like we're gonna
[11:06] Speaker 2: cut them out more often than not. Yeah, I mean
[11:09] Speaker 2: the system's been successfully rigged. I mean you think about
[11:11] Speaker 2: it like if you're James Madison.
[11:13] Speaker 4: Okay, actually, I hope to write about this, So I
[11:15] Speaker 4: almost feel bad giving this away now because I love
[11:17] Speaker 4: the hook that I came up with this. I hopefully
[11:19] Speaker 4: I'll have something about this in the coming whatever days weeks.
[11:22] Speaker 4: I thought back to yesterday talking think, I thought back
[11:26] Speaker 4: to five Boise State Georgia. So Bois' Day was coming
[11:30] Speaker 4: off an eleven to one season. They're still in the whack.
[11:34] Speaker 4: They are ranked in the preseason. You know, they're a
[11:38] Speaker 4: fun underdog story. They go to Athens and Georgia just
[11:42] Speaker 4: beats the pants off of them, like forty eight thirteen
[11:44] Speaker 4: or something like that. DJ Shockley just throws deep ball
[11:47] Speaker 4: after deep ball. Boise State doesn't have the speed to
[11:50] Speaker 4: keep up. And it was one of those I remember
[11:53] Speaker 4: the response to that game, like, Okay, well, you're a
[11:55] Speaker 4: cute little story Boisese date, but you're beating up on
[11:57] Speaker 4: little sisters of the port. You're not ready for the
[11:59] Speaker 4: real team. You're not ready for the big dogs. A
[12:01] Speaker 4: year later, they beat Oklahoma. Five years after that, they
[12:06] Speaker 4: destroyed Georgia in the Georgia Dome. Like in a sport
[12:09] Speaker 4: with a healthier dialogue, and again the sports changed, so
[12:12] Speaker 4: like you know, obviously it was easier for Boise State.
[12:16] Speaker 4: You know, boys State would have lost half their players
[12:18] Speaker 4: after every successful season and blah blah blah. So it
[12:20] Speaker 4: is different now, but still in a sport with a
[12:23] Speaker 4: healthier dialogue, we'd be calling on that example, like Jamie
[12:26] Speaker 4: was in FCS four years ago. Now here they are
[12:28] Speaker 4: in the playoff, and honestly, I thought they were better
[12:32] Speaker 4: than Tulane. I was kind of annoyed that Tulane got
[12:34] Speaker 4: the better draw. They could have competed with Old Miss.
[12:36] Speaker 4: They had the right pieces on defense, they STI wouldn't
[12:39] Speaker 4: have had enough speed and they would have lost, but
[12:40] Speaker 4: it would have been a pretty good game, I think.
[12:43] Speaker 4: And they could run the ball and Noble Miss can't
[12:45] Speaker 4: stop the run, as we're about to find out again
[12:47] Speaker 4: here in another week and a half. But you know,
[12:50] Speaker 4: in a sport with a healthier dialogue, we would have
[12:52] Speaker 4: been talking about that, how far Jamie's come. How you know,
[12:56] Speaker 4: even Boise State had massive stepbacks and nobody thought they
[12:59] Speaker 4: could pull Boise State even the year before they did,
[13:03] Speaker 4: and we're not.
[13:04] Speaker 1: That's not the dialogue of this sport at all.
[13:07] Speaker 4: And I don't know, I mean, other than using whatever
[13:10] Speaker 4: my microphone, I have to write about this kind of stuff.
[13:13] Speaker 4: I don't know how we get there. We we we anyway,
[13:18] Speaker 4: Sport's not.
[13:18] Speaker 3: There, of course, not there? All right.
[13:20] Speaker 2: You alluded to this a moment ago. It's your turn
[13:25] Speaker 2: to air your grievance here on our Festivus show.
[13:29] Speaker 4: Okay, and it's already we've beaten this, you know, horse
[13:33] Speaker 4: to death over the last week and a half, obviously,
[13:35] Speaker 4: and everybody knows what I'm going to say.
[13:37] Speaker 1: I said it online.
[13:39] Speaker 4: But so two years ago, when Floridas Day got screwed,
[13:42] Speaker 4: that was a genuine injustice in every possible way in
[13:45] Speaker 4: my eyes. I know, I know the logic. I hate
[13:48] Speaker 4: the logic. I thought it was terrible logic. You're you're
[13:51] Speaker 4: a thirteen to oh conference champion in the ACC. You
[13:54] Speaker 4: should get in, no matter what, even if it means
[13:56] Speaker 4: leaving out the SEC champ So that's that was a
[13:58] Speaker 4: completely different deal and a completely a worse deal than
[14:01] Speaker 4: what we saw this year. I was able to for
[14:04] Speaker 4: the first few weeks of the college football rankings playoff rankings,
[14:08] Speaker 4: I was able to kind of just not really pay
[14:10] Speaker 4: attention to the conversation. Everybody was trying to get mad
[14:12] Speaker 4: about Miami being where they were and how could they
[14:14] Speaker 4: be so much lower than Notre Dame, as if they
[14:16] Speaker 4: hadn't lost to Louisville n SMU and hadn't gone like
[14:21] Speaker 4: six weeks without looking like a playoff team at all,
[14:23] Speaker 4: Like we ignored all that. But that was fine because
[14:25] Speaker 4: whoever ended up missing out in this conversation, whether it
[14:29] Speaker 4: was Miami or Notre Dame, they lost twice. They you know,
[14:33] Speaker 4: we knew two weeks into the season Notre Dame might
[14:35] Speaker 4: be screwed, and you know, they suddenly looked so good
[14:38] Speaker 4: that it blurred the picture.
[14:39] Speaker 1: But in the end they were screwed after two weeks.
[14:41] Speaker 4: So whoever I left out there was a pretty good,
[14:43] Speaker 4: well you should have just you shouldn't have done.
[14:45] Speaker 1: This, and that's fine. The bars lower with twelve teams.
[14:48] Speaker 4: I liked that so fine, And I still cut super
[14:52] Speaker 4: angry by the end of the process because of the
[14:55] Speaker 4: process itself, because we've reached the point with the committee
[14:58] Speaker 4: where they try as hard as they can to create
[14:59] Speaker 4: rule for themselves that you end up in a situation
[15:03] Speaker 4: where if Notre Dame isn't physically separated from Miami, Miami
[15:07] Speaker 4: will jump Notre Dame because had to head matters. Obviously,
[15:12] Speaker 4: I mean, Miami had nothing else on the resume besides
[15:14] Speaker 4: that Notre Dame win. So the fact that they were
[15:15] Speaker 4: as high as they were before the final week is
[15:18] Speaker 4: because of the.
[15:18] Speaker 1: Notre Dame win. Clearly they were getting credit.
[15:21] Speaker 4: But if two teams are next to each other, suddenly
[15:23] Speaker 4: had to head means triple and nothing else matters, and
[15:26] Speaker 4: therefore we have no choice but de leete Miami, and
[15:29] Speaker 4: you end up in a situation where Miami was eight
[15:32] Speaker 4: spots behind Notre Dame or whatever it was. Then the
[15:34] Speaker 4: two teams played basically the same caliber opponent from that
[15:37] Speaker 4: point forward. Notre Dame, I think, beats them by more
[15:40] Speaker 4: on average, and Miami makes up eight spots and hops
[15:43] Speaker 4: Notre Dame. That was the stupidest process I could possibly
[15:46] Speaker 4: think of. In the fact that the Notre Dame in
[15:49] Speaker 4: Miami bid was determined by whether Alabama dropped. Alabama has
[15:53] Speaker 4: not played either Notre Dame or Miami should have nothing
[15:55] Speaker 4: to do with Notre Dame or Miami.
[15:57] Speaker 1: But if Alabama had.
[15:58] Speaker 4: Dropped one, then Notre Dame had that separated and they
[16:00] Speaker 4: get in instead of Miami. This is a stupid like,
[16:04] Speaker 4: it's it's an unredeemable process. To me, I've always been
[16:08] Speaker 4: kind of radicalized in this regard.
[16:10] Speaker 1: I've always I never felt the need for a committee anyway.
[16:13] Speaker 4: Like, the only reason we hated the BCS formula was
[16:15] Speaker 4: that it can only pick two teams, and like it
[16:17] Speaker 4: was fine, and.
[16:18] Speaker 1: They've proudly issued all of that.
[16:21] Speaker 4: In the name of you know, people in a closed
[16:23] Speaker 4: door room that with such gravitas that you can't possibly
[16:26] Speaker 4: disagree with them. But this, this just broke it. This
[16:29] Speaker 4: this system does not work and will not work. And
[16:32] Speaker 4: my my grievance is that you know, we need a
[16:36] Speaker 4: formula now more than ever.
[16:38] Speaker 2: Well, I think you're probably the guy to talk to
[16:40] Speaker 2: about that, because was it your formula part of the
[16:43] Speaker 2: equation to settle the Mountain West Conference tiebreaker?
[16:47] Speaker 4: That was such a miserable experience for me. I hated
[16:50] Speaker 4: every moment of that and it was just a Mountain West.
[16:53] Speaker 2: So describe what that was like, because it had to
[16:56] Speaker 2: be something of a surreal moment.
[16:57] Speaker 3: I mean, you've been in this business forever.
[16:59] Speaker 1: Bill.
[16:59] Speaker 2: People look up to you as one of the godfathers
[17:02] Speaker 2: of advanced metrics in college football. When Dan and I
[17:06] Speaker 2: noticed that that was part of the tiebreaker, we were
[17:09] Speaker 2: roaring over here. I mean it was like, oh man,
[17:11] Speaker 2: I can't wait to talk to Bill to find out
[17:14] Speaker 2: what that was like for him.
[17:16] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[17:16] Speaker 4: So it was actually like it was a year and
[17:17] Speaker 4: a half ago when they did it, but that nobody
[17:19] Speaker 4: needed the tie breakers last year.
[17:22] Speaker 1: Or the computer tiebreaker. But yeah, they it was like a.
[17:27] Speaker 4: Consortium I guess of Mountain West Conference USA and American that. Yeah,
[17:34] Speaker 4: as you know, because all these conferences are too big
[17:36] Speaker 4: and everybody like none of the tiebreakers work now in
[17:39] Speaker 4: terms of head to head and whatnot. Yeah, their their
[17:43] Speaker 4: go to is going to be a computer average. And
[17:45] Speaker 4: I told them, I was like okay, because they asked
[17:48] Speaker 4: about sp plus and I said, like, resume sp plus
[17:51] Speaker 4: might be better for these purposes, just because it's more
[17:55] Speaker 4: it's a resume measure, and I guess it depends on
[17:58] Speaker 4: what you're trying to measure. And they were like, yeah,
[18:00] Speaker 4: we want kind of half half resume half pure power rating.
[18:04] Speaker 1: And I guess in the end, when in doubt, go.
[18:07] Speaker 4: With the better team isn't the worst idea in the world.
[18:11] Speaker 4: You know, if you're thinking about trying to get a
[18:12] Speaker 4: playoff bit or whatever, maybe maybe the ACC should have
[18:15] Speaker 4: tried that.
[18:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, but.
[18:18] Speaker 4: By the way, the SEC also had this ended up
[18:20] Speaker 4: with the same tie breaker as the ACC. They just
[18:22] Speaker 4: lucked into a very familiar matchup and anyway, so no,
[18:26] Speaker 4: it was just basically, yeah, they wanted kind of a
[18:30] Speaker 4: mix of quality and resume, and they included SP plus
[18:35] Speaker 4: and so with a few weeks out from the end
[18:37] Speaker 4: of the season, when two lane fans started noticing how
[18:40] Speaker 4: much s P plus hated their team because they got
[18:43] Speaker 4: destroyed by UTSA and fell however far they fell. After
[18:47] Speaker 4: that game, I was getta yelled at by a bunch
[18:50] Speaker 4: of two lane fans. I have like thirty eight two
[18:52] Speaker 4: lane sharance in my closet. It was a very heartbreaking experience.
[18:56] Speaker 4: But then you know that didn't end up coming to
[18:58] Speaker 4: Fruition the you know, the America and took care of itself.
[19:01] Speaker 4: Mount West, however, didn't. Jason eckin New Mexico, we were
[19:04] Speaker 4: just about my favorite story in the sport this year.
[19:07] Speaker 4: And guess who sp plus liked the least among the
[19:10] Speaker 4: Tide teams. So yeah, it was what it was like
[19:13] Speaker 4: I yelled at by a bunch of New Mexico fans
[19:15] Speaker 4: and I was like, I know, I love it, but
[19:17] Speaker 4: your team's not amazing, and you know UNLB has looked
[19:20] Speaker 4: better recently, so here you go. But yeah, that was
[19:24] Speaker 4: I just got an email basically whatever it was, eighteen
[19:27] Speaker 4: months ago, and it took a while for people to
[19:30] Speaker 4: notice because I was.
[19:32] Speaker 1: Not need to.
[19:33] Speaker 2: I'm glad the sp plus is getting the notoriety on
[19:35] Speaker 2: sub level that it deserves. Back to the grievance at hand, though, Okay,
[19:43] Speaker 2: I think you. I mean you obviously, as I've described
[19:46] Speaker 2: time and again here in this episode and over the years,
[19:51] Speaker 2: You've been doing this for a long time.
[19:53] Speaker 1: We've both been doing this for a long time now, we.
[19:54] Speaker 3: Both have been doing this for too long.
[19:56] Speaker 2: You know your way around a spreadsheet, you know your
[19:58] Speaker 2: way around which metrics matter and which metrics determine who
[20:03] Speaker 2: is better, and so I'm not surprised to hear you
[20:07] Speaker 2: say that a computer formula would probably be better than
[20:10] Speaker 2: this weekly show that we do. And whatever process the
[20:13] Speaker 2: committee adopts from year to year. But what does that
[20:17] Speaker 2: formula look like? Okay, hypothetically speaking, this is probably never
[20:20] Speaker 2: something they're going to do ever again.
[20:22] Speaker 3: But in a world where.
[20:24] Speaker 2: They do Bill Connolly's model for determining who should get
[20:29] Speaker 2: in and who shouldn't, what does that look like.
[20:31] Speaker 4: Well, So, the last couple of weeks when I started
[20:34] Speaker 4: to when I started to grasp just how dumb this
[20:36] Speaker 4: whole Notre Dame Miami had to head physical separation.
[20:39] Speaker 1: Barrier thing was going to be.
[20:41] Speaker 4: I did start because it was easiest for me to
[20:44] Speaker 4: do this.
[20:45] Speaker 1: I did. It was like eighty twenty.
[20:48] Speaker 4: It was like eighty percent resume rating, which I just
[20:50] Speaker 4: used my resume SP plus and strength the record, and
[20:53] Speaker 4: then twenty percent pure strength, which was just s P
[20:56] Speaker 4: plus an FPI because I can easily pull all that
[20:58] Speaker 4: and I want to to do it just to kind
[21:00] Speaker 4: of see where the committee was differing from what the
[21:03] Speaker 4: from what a loose computer rating would say. Number one,
[21:07] Speaker 4: it had Oklahoma way out, which which like they kind
[21:12] Speaker 4: of got away because of all the distraction with Notre
[21:13] Speaker 4: Dame Miami. They got away with a kind of a
[21:16] Speaker 4: magic trick there where they did not look like a
[21:18] Speaker 4: playoff team either.
[21:19] Speaker 1: At all.
[21:20] Speaker 4: But they the committee decided they had to be ahead
[21:22] Speaker 4: of Alabama because of this one game they had almost
[21:25] Speaker 4: the lowest statistical likelihood of happening. Like, you know, Alabama
[21:30] Speaker 4: gets double the yardage and loses because of special teams
[21:33] Speaker 4: and turnovers or whatnot. That game decided like, oh use,
[21:36] Speaker 4: fate was sealed at that point, no matter how good
[21:38] Speaker 4: or bad they look from that point forward. And that's
[21:40] Speaker 4: again I hate that. You know, that's just not how
[21:43] Speaker 4: this should work. It is an artisonally handcrafted selection of teams,
[21:48] Speaker 4: not an actual ranking of one through twenty five. But anyway,
[21:51] Speaker 4: like Oklahoma was out, Alabama fell out after they got
[21:55] Speaker 4: their butts kicked in the SEC Championship, which didn't matter
[21:58] Speaker 4: at all, and Notre Dame in Miami, we're both in.
[22:03] Speaker 4: Vandy was on the borderline again then, and that just
[22:06] Speaker 4: made so much more sense to me, top to bottom.
[22:09] Speaker 4: I hate like it just worked. And I know, like
[22:11] Speaker 4: if they were to do this for real, you can't
[22:14] Speaker 4: have nothing but ESPN.
[22:15] Speaker 1: Products decide in it.
[22:16] Speaker 4: I know I like the ident of out of convenience,
[22:21] Speaker 4: but I also know that there are lots of other
[22:25] Speaker 4: power ratings out there that are very good at this point,
[22:27] Speaker 4: it's twenty twenty five, it's not nineteen ninety eight when
[22:30] Speaker 4: they were trying to figure this out the first time.
[22:32] Speaker 1: With the BCS, there.
[22:34] Speaker 4: Are lots of really good You could have a large
[22:35] Speaker 4: selection of the power ratings. Part resume ratings would be
[22:38] Speaker 4: a little trickier, but yeah, twenty ninety ten, just a
[22:43] Speaker 4: mix of the ratings where you can go back and
[22:45] Speaker 4: also see, like, here's how it would have looked in
[22:47] Speaker 4: years past, so we know what we're getting ourselves into.
[22:52] Speaker 4: Has to be a heavy mix of resume because otherwise,
[22:55] Speaker 4: like twenty twenty three, Washington is unbeaten and getting like
[22:58] Speaker 4: the five seed because computers kind of hated that team
[23:01] Speaker 4: because they want ever again by three or whatever. But
[23:05] Speaker 4: that that makes the most sense to me, and I'm
[23:07] Speaker 4: talking about all computers now. That was the big change
[23:10] Speaker 4: this year is previously I'm like, well, we need a
[23:11] Speaker 4: BCS ish polls and computers. No, humans are done. Humans
[23:15] Speaker 4: are out of the I don't want humans decide. I
[23:17] Speaker 4: wouldn't want myself to siding in the It's the.
[23:19] Speaker 3: Age of AI.
[23:20] Speaker 4: Computers with the algorithm has taken over in a lot
[23:24] Speaker 4: of horrible ways.
[23:25] Speaker 1: Well, here's one good way.
[23:26] Speaker 4: We can let the algorithms take over and just take
[23:29] Speaker 4: humans out of the picture, because, among other things, this
[23:31] Speaker 4: is something I realized a couple of days later. Notre
[23:33] Speaker 4: Dame opted out of a bowl immediately, pretty much because
[23:36] Speaker 4: it felt personal, like they were the butt of a
[23:40] Speaker 4: joke and a reality show. They were used as a
[23:42] Speaker 4: prop in a reality show, and they were manipulated, and
[23:44] Speaker 4: they finished their seats some thoughts and thinking they were
[23:46] Speaker 4: easily in, and then a bunch of humans in a
[23:49] Speaker 4: closed door room decided no, actually you're out, and it
[23:52] Speaker 4: felt personal, and they immediately opted out. Maybe they do anyway,
[23:55] Speaker 4: but if it's tesimal points and you're watching and you
[23:57] Speaker 4: see where you stand, and you know, like Alabama, you know,
[24:01] Speaker 4: Championship week, like nobody was playing who had played Miami.
[24:05] Speaker 4: The only team that was playing at all was Boise State,
[24:08] Speaker 4: who Notre Dame had crushed, and they won. It's a
[24:11] Speaker 4: technical Notre Dame's resumeation of like improved by a millimeter,
[24:16] Speaker 4: and you would have you'd just known where you stood,
[24:18] Speaker 4: and it wouldn't have felt personal, like you know what
[24:21] Speaker 4: the algorithm said, what the algorithm said, and that's not
[24:24] Speaker 4: going to make you happy. If you get left out,
[24:25] Speaker 4: but it's still not as personal. I think that would
[24:27] Speaker 4: be a good thing right about now too.
[24:29] Speaker 2: One more question on this, and then I want to
[24:31] Speaker 2: broaden the conversation beyond just the playoff, because we have
[24:33] Speaker 2: people who listened from all all all shapes and of
[24:38] Speaker 2: all shapes and sizes explained to me, and I mean,
[24:41] Speaker 2: I know generally how it works, but it feels to
[24:45] Speaker 2: me like there is some shroud of mystery over resume rankings.
[24:49] Speaker 2: So I think we all understand strength of schedule and
[24:54] Speaker 2: that metrics specific place in this conversation, but resume is
[24:58] Speaker 2: taking it to sort of another layer.
[25:01] Speaker 3: Yeah, how does that work? How do you view resume ranking?
[25:05] Speaker 4: Resume is harder because it's pure. It's an art form.
[25:08] Speaker 4: Like with quality rankings. You know which which power rankings
[25:10] Speaker 4: are good because they predict games well and you can
[25:13] Speaker 4: you know there you you've got prediction tracker. I posted
[25:17] Speaker 4: spplus results online for like sixteen years now, so you
[25:20] Speaker 4: can you can follow along, you know how if those
[25:23] Speaker 4: if those metrics are clearing a certain bar or not,
[25:26] Speaker 4: that's easy. But resume, yeah, it is like strength the record.
[25:30] Speaker 4: What is it is like your wink percentage? When percentage
[25:33] Speaker 4: compared to what a top twenty five team would do
[25:37] Speaker 4: against your schedule, I think is I don't know specifically
[25:40] Speaker 4: how they go about calculating that, but I think that
[25:42] Speaker 4: was the idea. Mine mine includes I couldn't just do
[25:47] Speaker 4: a pure strength to schedule thing, and so mine includes
[25:49] Speaker 4: like scoring margin, like how would a top five team
[25:52] Speaker 4: have performed against your schedule?
[25:54] Speaker 1: Are you clearing that bar or not? You know, but
[25:57] Speaker 1: it is pure art form and that that is adlutly
[26:00] Speaker 1: a trickier thing. And that's why I think if they
[26:03] Speaker 1: went this route, you would have to have like, here's
[26:05] Speaker 1: how the last five years would have looked in all
[26:07] Speaker 1: these different measures, and then in the combination, and so
[26:09] Speaker 1: you can kind of tell what's going on, because yeah,
[26:11] Speaker 1: there is no accuracy with resumes. It's purely the beholder stuff,
[26:16] Speaker 1: and that's a lot harder.
[26:17] Speaker 2: The regular season is now in the rearview mirror. Yiss
[26:23] Speaker 2: key themes, key takeaways, key talking points. Now, as we
[26:27] Speaker 2: round the corner into twenty twenty six, what stood out
[26:30] Speaker 2: to you? What are some like bigger picture, higher level
[26:35] Speaker 2: things that are first and foremost for you.
[26:38] Speaker 4: I think, I mean, the two coolest stories going on
[26:41] Speaker 4: right now, or it's really kind of one story with
[26:43] Speaker 4: two parts. Is you look at the quarterfinal teams. You
[26:48] Speaker 4: got Ohio State, You've got Oregon, You've got Georgia, You've
[26:51] Speaker 4: got blue chip recruiters who have won a lot of
[26:53] Speaker 4: games recently. Indiana is number one in the country. Texas
[26:59] Speaker 4: Tech is number four. Should have been number three, honestly,
[27:02] Speaker 4: but his number four in the country obviously, Texa Tech
[27:06] Speaker 4: George is going to be a dynamite game. They might
[27:07] Speaker 4: not win, Like, that's a really hard game. If Oregon
[27:10] Speaker 4: plays like they did in the first quarter on Saturday,
[27:12] Speaker 4: they're going to be just about anybody.
[27:15] Speaker 1: But the fact that they were able to like got
[27:20] Speaker 1: in my head.
[27:20] Speaker 4: I'm probably still picking Ohio State to win this thing.
[27:22] Speaker 4: I just I think they left more points on the
[27:24] Speaker 4: table against Indiana, and I just probably try and it
[27:27] Speaker 4: probably goes back to Blue Chips and blah blah blah two.
[27:30] Speaker 4: But that team that just ran circles around JMU, A
[27:34] Speaker 4: good JAMU team that shut down Louisville, Like that team
[27:38] Speaker 4: lost to Indiana at home by ten. Ohio State all
[27:42] Speaker 4: the Blue Chippers in the world, best receiver in the country,
[27:44] Speaker 4: best safety in the country, maybe the two best like
[27:46] Speaker 4: players at their position in the country, all the blue
[27:49] Speaker 4: chip talent in the world. Indiana beat them in Indianapolis.
[27:52] Speaker 1: It's a legit team.
[27:53] Speaker 4: It's not an underdog that wins close games and just
[27:55] Speaker 4: kind of looks their way into into whatever.
[27:57] Speaker 1: It's not twenty fifteen Iowa.
[27:59] Speaker 4: Go reaching the season the end of the season, are
[28:01] Speaker 4: almost reaching it unbeaten. It's a legit, awesome team that
[28:05] Speaker 4: deserves to be number one in the country right now.
[28:07] Speaker 4: And that's mind blowing that that could happen in two years.
[28:11] Speaker 4: I mean even last year they were obviously already a
[28:13] Speaker 4: top ten team, and you know the fact that the
[28:17] Speaker 4: quarterback only had one ACL finally caught up to them
[28:20] Speaker 4: in the playoff and like at the two play flip
[28:22] Speaker 4: with the love touchdown.
[28:22] Speaker 1: And that was that was bad.
[28:24] Speaker 4: But they legit were a top ten team and deserved
[28:26] Speaker 4: to be there. And for them to then take another
[28:28] Speaker 4: step like there is a new path to success and
[28:32] Speaker 4: that's awesome. Obviously they spent a good amount of money,
[28:36] Speaker 4: but like the fact that they were able to get
[28:38] Speaker 4: the guys that they brought in and make them better,
[28:40] Speaker 4: like Jmu's guys that came over with Signetty, like did
[28:43] Speaker 4: better with Indiana than they did with jmu is wild.
[28:48] Speaker 4: And of course the other half of that is the
[28:49] Speaker 4: fact that Texas Tech is also right there.
[28:51] Speaker 1: They're they're third in.
[28:52] Speaker 4: Sp plus and even while rising to third, they were
[28:55] Speaker 4: overachieving every game by fourteen points down the stretch. That
[28:59] Speaker 4: Arizona State game, I hate that that happened, but that
[29:01] Speaker 4: was the one game where you know, they couldn't Obviously
[29:04] Speaker 4: Morton was hurt, but they just couldn't like their defense,
[29:07] Speaker 4: you know, as you found some tricks and they still
[29:08] Speaker 4: had Levitt and they were still a decent team.
[29:11] Speaker 1: And that stinks.
[29:12] Speaker 4: But like you know, they are third, and they are
[29:14] Speaker 4: overachieving every single game they're going to have. There were
[29:17] Speaker 4: slight projected favorites over organ in the quarterfinals with us
[29:21] Speaker 4: P plus. So the fact that they were able to
[29:23] Speaker 4: do that their way, Oh, obviously we know Texas Tech.
[29:25] Speaker 4: They were pretty brazen and like, hey, we're just gonna
[29:27] Speaker 4: systems broken. We're gonna spend as much as we want,
[29:30] Speaker 4: and you know, if you want to fix the system,
[29:32] Speaker 4: because we're going to break it. We're going to win
[29:33] Speaker 4: the softball national title this year too. And we're just
[29:36] Speaker 4: gonna You know, that's I like that.
[29:39] Speaker 1: Disruptive force, even if you know it could go in
[29:42] Speaker 1: a pretty gross direction. I think it's it's in this moment.
[29:45] Speaker 4: It's very good that you have historic also ran the
[29:49] Speaker 4: losing this program in the history of college football until
[29:51] Speaker 4: earlier this year being number one and a and a
[29:56] Speaker 4: West Texas Outlaw team having a very solid shot of
[30:01] Speaker 4: making a run here too. I think that's awesome. You know,
[30:05] Speaker 4: that's really really good for the sport. Like the fact
[30:07] Speaker 4: that you can get around history, get around were recruiting
[30:11] Speaker 4: nothing but five stars and still build that level of
[30:13] Speaker 4: team I think is really good.
[30:15] Speaker 2: Okay, what I'm about to say, I will admit is
[30:18] Speaker 2: even hard for me to say, is is Texas Tech
[30:25] Speaker 2: the next Indiana or is Indiana the next Texas Tech?
[30:28] Speaker 3: Because these are two teams that, as you've described.
[30:31] Speaker 2: Here, have challenged the model in one way or another,
[30:33] Speaker 2: have obviously gotten very good, very quickly, in no small
[30:38] Speaker 2: part due to the transfer portal and being smart with
[30:40] Speaker 2: how they spend the money and all that. Clearly different situations,
[30:44] Speaker 2: but there is at least some degree of parallel between
[30:47] Speaker 2: those two programs right now.
[30:48] Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the parallel really is is that you know,
[30:52] Speaker 4: obviously we know how much that Tech spent in the portal.
[30:55] Speaker 1: They made that very clear.
[30:57] Speaker 4: But also, I mean, David Bailey was a slam and dunk,
[31:00] Speaker 4: but like Lee Hunter Journeyman like a dynamite in their system,
[31:06] Speaker 4: Romelo Height Journeyman dynamite in their system. Like there, it
[31:09] Speaker 4: really seems like they did the best job of like
[31:14] Speaker 4: the money is great, but they did the best job
[31:15] Speaker 4: of identifying here's the like, this player with this profile
[31:20] Speaker 4: is going to be perfect in our system, and then
[31:23] Speaker 4: having them show up and verify that. It feels like
[31:25] Speaker 4: they nailed that aspect of it, not just hey, let's
[31:27] Speaker 4: go get the ten biggest names in the portal. A
[31:30] Speaker 4: lot of those weren't big names and they turned out
[31:32] Speaker 4: to be Dynamite players and that's that's cool.
[31:34] Speaker 1: Like I like that, that's that a team is capable
[31:37] Speaker 1: of doing that.
[31:38] Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I guess technically, I think we have
[31:42] Speaker 4: to see how the story ends, because obviously Illin or
[31:45] Speaker 4: Indiana had is a year ahead of Tech, but also
[31:48] Speaker 4: they kind of face planted the first year in the
[31:50] Speaker 4: playoff and Tech might not, so we have to kind.
[31:53] Speaker 1: Of see how this situation ends. But it was kind of.
[31:56] Speaker 4: Yeah, it was two similar journeys and you know, different
[32:00] Speaker 4: personalities leading those journeys, I guess, But it's been it's
[32:04] Speaker 4: been really, really impressive.
[32:05] Speaker 1: It wasn't just about spending.
[32:06] Speaker 2: Money Indiana Texas Tech. Is there another school, maybe one
[32:10] Speaker 2: outside of the playoff conversation that you see rising quickly
[32:15] Speaker 2: ascending in a way that many of us have unexpected.
[32:19] Speaker 2: Is that team out there.
[32:23] Speaker 1: Well, Vanderbilts.
[32:25] Speaker 4: I need to see what Vanderbilt does without Pavia, because Pavia,
[32:28] Speaker 4: I like, he was so uniquely impressive. You know, their
[32:33] Speaker 4: offensive line I still don't think was very good this year.
[32:36] Speaker 4: It got a lot of credit for being good in
[32:38] Speaker 4: part because Pavia. It feels like, figured out a bunch
[32:42] Speaker 4: of new ways to escape the pocket that have never
[32:45] Speaker 4: been seen before in the sport. And just like you're
[32:50] Speaker 4: just a unique player in every regard. I know, they
[32:52] Speaker 4: got the five star freshmen and all that, so they
[32:54] Speaker 4: really might be building towards something, but I just got
[32:56] Speaker 4: to see it without this one magical little piece of
[32:59] Speaker 4: the equation. Still like they were clearly better this year,
[33:03] Speaker 4: like across the board, better even if they wouldn't have
[33:05] Speaker 4: been top ten is level without Pavia, Like that you know,
[33:08] Speaker 4: maybe they've kind of figured out a model too, and
[33:10] Speaker 4: it's the same model to a certain extent of like, yes,
[33:13] Speaker 4: spend a lot of money on transfers, but get the
[33:16] Speaker 4: right transfers who can make you better. And apparently just
[33:19] Speaker 4: hire Jerry kill because he makes everybody better. Yeah, that
[33:23] Speaker 4: seems to be a big part of it as well.
[33:26] Speaker 4: So yeah, like they're they're really really interesting, even if
[33:29] Speaker 4: it's a reasonably similar model.
[33:31] Speaker 1: Otherwise, I mean, honestly.
[33:32] Speaker 4: If we're talking about right rising quickly, James Madison is
[33:37] Speaker 4: still just an unbelievable story. They were in FCS four
[33:41] Speaker 4: years ago and they're legit good. They weren't good enough
[33:44] Speaker 4: to keep up with Organ and Oregon is you know,
[33:46] Speaker 4: seems to have that kind of curby smart edge of
[33:48] Speaker 4: I am offended to be on the field on the
[33:50] Speaker 4: field with you right now, and we are. I'm going
[33:52] Speaker 4: to bring my A plus game to show you whose boss.
[33:57] Speaker 4: But they still like the links to which they have
[34:01] Speaker 4: risen in a short amount of time is pretty incredible.
[34:04] Speaker 4: And obviously you know you're gonna lose players. You lose
[34:06] Speaker 4: your coach every two years. Apparently that's gonna be hard
[34:09] Speaker 4: to keep up. With the boys' State lost a lot
[34:10] Speaker 4: of coaches too, and just kept rising because they made
[34:12] Speaker 4: the right decisions. So still really curious how far James
[34:15] Speaker 4: Madison can rise even with all the forces trying to
[34:19] Speaker 4: tamp stories like that down.
[34:21] Speaker 3: Is there a coaching move.
[34:24] Speaker 2: We've had a lot of them, and there's still one
[34:26] Speaker 2: on the board with Michigan, And who knows what happens
[34:29] Speaker 2: if Kuy's go to the NFL whatever. I mean, we're
[34:31] Speaker 2: a long way from being out of this thing. But
[34:33] Speaker 2: at time of recording on Festivus, which fit to you
[34:38] Speaker 2: makes the most sense.
[34:41] Speaker 4: And I just this is this is great because now
[34:43] Speaker 4: I get to promote a piece I just put up
[34:44] Speaker 4: this morning where my editor saw me grading hires on
[34:48] Speaker 4: Twitter instead about how about you write that? And so
[34:51] Speaker 4: there's an actual grading coaching higher's piece that's gonna get
[34:54] Speaker 4: me yelled at today. Lane Kiffin's the best higher like
[34:59] Speaker 4: it was the best hiring, the best coach available, Like
[35:02] Speaker 4: that's fine. Everything that led up to that hire was gross.
[35:05] Speaker 2: You let me hold on, so let me let me
[35:07] Speaker 2: stop you right there. Yeah, because my big question about
[35:09] Speaker 2: Lane is is.
[35:13] Speaker 3: Is it worth all this to get Lane Kiffin?
[35:16] Speaker 4: And that's fair, especially with and this was something I
[35:20] Speaker 4: wrote in the Thing Too, is just that I was curious, like,
[35:23] Speaker 4: is hiring a proven winner the best strategy or is
[35:26] Speaker 4: it basically trying to find the next Dan Lanning and
[35:28] Speaker 4: spend an extra seven million dollars a year on players?
[35:31] Speaker 1: Maybe that's the best approach.
[35:32] Speaker 4: And honestly that made me really like Kentucky's move with
[35:35] Speaker 4: will Stein among other things.
[35:38] Speaker 1: You know, they they.
[35:40] Speaker 4: I realized, like, you know, a big name hire is
[35:43] Speaker 4: going to bring in more booster money in general, so
[35:45] Speaker 4: the numbers aren't exactly the same. But I was wondering
[35:49] Speaker 4: about that, Like when it looked like drink Wits might
[35:51] Speaker 4: I guess he's still linked to Michigan, but whatever, when
[35:55] Speaker 4: it looked like he might, you know, get pulled into
[35:58] Speaker 4: one of these jobs, That's that's where I was in
[36:00] Speaker 4: my head with Maszoo, was like, h try to hire
[36:04] Speaker 4: the next Landing, not the next you know, Kirby Smart
[36:07] Speaker 4: or whatever. And so a couple of schools went that, right,
[36:10] Speaker 4: A whole bunch of schools spent a whole bunch of
[36:12] Speaker 4: money on the on the proven winner, and we're just
[36:16] Speaker 4: proving the money is not real. This whole situation. But
[36:20] Speaker 4: to your question, Kiffin, he's just been so good over
[36:24] Speaker 4: the last nine years doing what he did with like
[36:26] Speaker 4: six double digit win seasons at Florida Atlantic and Old
[36:30] Speaker 4: Miss being able to build a playoff team that it's
[36:33] Speaker 4: always going to be a mark on his resume that
[36:34] Speaker 4: he left that playoff team when you know he's still
[36:38] Speaker 4: pretty young and this LSU job would have come open
[36:40] Speaker 4: again in like three years if he had just waited
[36:43] Speaker 4: and he decided to take it now, and that's always
[36:45] Speaker 4: going to be part of his story. But he's still
[36:49] Speaker 4: proven so much. No no hire is guaranteed to work,
[36:51] Speaker 4: and you can see if things start off kind of
[36:54] Speaker 4: bumpy and his quarterback gets hurt, they don't do pretty well.
[36:56] Speaker 4: Next year you might see the dark side of LSU
[36:59] Speaker 4: and the dark side of and things could get really gross.
[37:01] Speaker 4: But in terms of pure logic, like he was the
[37:04] Speaker 4: best coach on the board and the best school got him,
[37:06] Speaker 4: So I don't have a problem with that at all.
[37:08] Speaker 4: Is there a move that you look at as a
[37:11] Speaker 4: head scratcher? I just realized I didn'tnswer your original question.
[37:15] Speaker 4: I was going to talk about Eric Morris too, but.
[37:17] Speaker 2: Okay, well, let's let's let's talk about Eric Morris Okay,
[37:19] Speaker 2: and then get there.
[37:20] Speaker 4: There are two head scratchers, and I mean thirty highers
[37:23] Speaker 4: and only two that I didn't like. That's a good average.
[37:25] Speaker 4: It's yeah, you know, the logic's good with most of these.
[37:28] Speaker 4: But to Eric Morris, man, that's a perfect OHI Oklahoma
[37:32] Speaker 4: State fit right there. Like the Oklahoma State we got
[37:36] Speaker 4: to know at its best was lighting up scoreboards in
[37:39] Speaker 4: really really impressive ways. Eric Morris helped helped. I'm not
[37:44] Speaker 4: going to pretend like Patrick Mahomes didn't have Patrick Mahomes
[37:46] Speaker 4: in him all along, but he was Mahomes's quarterback coach.
[37:48] Speaker 4: But Mahomes was a high three star quarterback and became
[37:53] Speaker 4: Patrick Mahomes. That's a pretty good little mark on the resume.
[37:55] Speaker 4: He finds cam Ward as an unrecruited option quarterback, brings
[38:00] Speaker 4: him to incarnate word. However, many years later he's the
[38:03] Speaker 4: number one pick. Drew Mestamaker walks on having not started
[38:07] Speaker 4: in high school and throws for four thousand yards in
[38:09] Speaker 4: his first season, Like there is not a better track
[38:12] Speaker 4: record for just pure Hey, I'm going to find a
[38:15] Speaker 4: cheap quarterback and turn him into a Heisman.
[38:16] Speaker 3: Cause he wanted He wanted Baker too, didn't he.
[38:19] Speaker 4: I think so, I'm pretty sure that was part of
[38:21] Speaker 4: the story, you know, a decade later, who knows, but
[38:23] Speaker 4: that was part of the lore too.
[38:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, so like like that.
[38:28] Speaker 4: That seems perfect to me. We don't know if the
[38:29] Speaker 4: he'll ever be able to craft a defense that's good enough,
[38:31] Speaker 4: although I mean North Texas did improve in that regard
[38:33] Speaker 4: at least. But he went to incarnate Word and immediately
[38:37] Speaker 4: brought them success that they'd never seen before. Then he
[38:39] Speaker 4: goes to North Texas and bring immediately brings them success
[38:42] Speaker 4: they'd never seen before. Like what more can you ask
[38:44] Speaker 4: for at that point? So, yeah, that's my that's my
[38:48] Speaker 4: non Kiffin James Franklin level higher that I love.
[38:52] Speaker 3: Okay, that's so.
[38:54] Speaker 2: I mean what I like about the Eric morris Hire
[38:55] Speaker 2: And I think Dan and I talked about this a
[38:57] Speaker 2: little bit in passing on one of the public episodes
[38:59] Speaker 2: of Private episode I don't even remember at this point,
[39:01] Speaker 2: but I do like the fact that they hired a
[39:04] Speaker 2: guy who sort of seems to fit with the longstanding
[39:09] Speaker 2: ethos and the theme of the program. Yes, you know,
[39:12] Speaker 2: and I know we've had these conversations before when we
[39:14] Speaker 2: talk about Wisconsin, what Wisconsin was trying to build over
[39:17] Speaker 2: these last couple of years with Luke Fickle felt almost
[39:20] Speaker 2: antithetical to what they had been and what they had
[39:23] Speaker 2: been very successful with in years prior. And so we'll
[39:26] Speaker 2: see how it works at Oklahoma State. But at least
[39:29] Speaker 2: they are kind of staying true to themselves, which I
[39:31] Speaker 2: kind of.
[39:31] Speaker 4: Like, yeah, and that's I mean, the fact that Scott
[39:34] Speaker 4: Frost didn't work and the fact that Luke Fickle didn't work,
[39:37] Speaker 4: Like when those when those hires were announced, like it
[39:40] Speaker 4: was just you know, unanimous, A plus is across the board,
[39:43] Speaker 4: so any higher can fail.
[39:45] Speaker 1: But man, it just makes so much sense and I
[39:48] Speaker 1: like it for that reason.
[39:49] Speaker 4: And honestly, that was you know, in my grades piece,
[39:51] Speaker 4: I didn't give jam you an amazing grade for hiring
[39:53] Speaker 4: billion Apier, which part of me like, that's a profect
[39:57] Speaker 4: tire in some way because what happened the last time
[39:58] Speaker 4: he was in the Sun Belt built a rocking ball
[40:02] Speaker 4: of a team in Louisiana, So that makes perfect sense.
[40:04] Speaker 4: It's just a we saw those sloppy Florida teams and
[40:07] Speaker 4: it's hard to get past that. And b they had
[40:09] Speaker 4: a formula of let's hire the best up and coming
[40:13] Speaker 4: over achiever in FCS. It's how they like, I think Houston,
[40:17] Speaker 4: I don't remember where Houston was. I think he qualified
[40:19] Speaker 4: as that. But then Signetti came from Elon, and then
[40:23] Speaker 4: Chesney came from Holy Cross, had holy Cross in the quarterfinals,
[40:28] Speaker 4: and so I just assumed they were going to hire
[40:30] Speaker 4: Kevin Cahill from Lee I honestly, and they strayed from
[40:33] Speaker 4: that formula, And that makes me a little bit nervous,
[40:35] Speaker 4: even though Napier makes sense otherwise. But I still gave
[40:38] Speaker 4: that a decent grade. The two grades, the two poor
[40:41] Speaker 4: grades in the entire piece. Number one, like, I feel
[40:45] Speaker 4: bad for Southern Myss because they made such a good
[40:47] Speaker 4: hire that they lost to Charles Hoff after one year,
[40:50] Speaker 4: and that's just a really tough place to be. But
[40:53] Speaker 4: Blake Anderson, like it, had one good season in his
[40:58] Speaker 4: last four years, and you tossed at Ark State and
[41:00] Speaker 4: Utah State had kind of shady circumstances are surrounding his firing.
[41:05] Speaker 4: Is that really the best you could do? Instead of
[41:08] Speaker 4: highering an up and comer who you don't necessarily know about.
[41:10] Speaker 1: We kind of know everything. We need to know about
[41:12] Speaker 1: Blake Anderson.
[41:13] Speaker 4: And it's kind of a super low ceiling, and I'm
[41:15] Speaker 4: not sure the floor is very high.
[41:16] Speaker 1: Didn't love that higher And the one that I've.
[41:22] Speaker 4: The number of Michigan State fans who have yelled at
[41:24] Speaker 4: me over the last few weeks, because I mean, how
[41:28] Speaker 4: can you hate Pat Fitzgerald. He's a proven winner, he's
[41:31] Speaker 4: an overachiever, Like he didn't overachieve at all over the
[41:34] Speaker 4: last four years he was on the job like that
[41:37] Speaker 4: that COVID season.
[41:37] Speaker 1: Obviously they went seven to two. That's great.
[41:40] Speaker 4: Lots of things happened in the COVID season that nobody
[41:43] Speaker 4: could repeat. Jamie Chadwell can attest to that. You know,
[41:47] Speaker 4: that was a weird circumstance. Great, then Mike Kankutz retires
[41:50] Speaker 4: and your defense completely falls apart. Your offense was never
[41:52] Speaker 4: good to begin with. Maybe he has all the right
[41:56] Speaker 4: touches to, you know, with player development and then to
[42:00] Speaker 4: physical underdog defense strategies and all that stuff.
[42:02] Speaker 1: Maybe he can still pull that off.
[42:04] Speaker 4: Why would you pay six million dollars a year to
[42:06] Speaker 4: find out he's never won a game in the NIL
[42:09] Speaker 4: era and he went fourteen and thirty even with the
[42:12] Speaker 4: seven and two seasons. He went fourteen and thirty one
[42:14] Speaker 4: over his last four years. If Michigan State had hired
[42:17] Speaker 4: him in twenty nineteen, they had fired him in twenty
[42:20] Speaker 4: twenty two, and they hired him like.
[42:23] Speaker 1: That blows my mind.
[42:24] Speaker 4: That he didn't have to go to like the American
[42:25] Speaker 4: Conference or something to get a job to prove he
[42:27] Speaker 4: could still do it. Michigan State just decided, Oh, I'm
[42:30] Speaker 4: sure he still can't. And that is the biggest risk
[42:33] Speaker 4: by far on the board. Even ignoring all the hazing stuff,
[42:37] Speaker 4: Like I know he was exonerated, it was not much
[42:39] Speaker 4: of an exoneration, Like he didn't know about any of
[42:41] Speaker 4: this going on is not much of an exoneration in
[42:43] Speaker 4: my eyes. But even ignoring all of that, the pure
[42:46] Speaker 4: on field performance was terrible for most of four years
[42:50] Speaker 4: three years ago, and they hired him anyway.
[42:54] Speaker 2: We know the guys you like, we know the guys
[42:56] Speaker 2: you don't. Who is squarely in the middle, Who to
[43:01] Speaker 2: you is the wildcard hire or wildcard hires?
[43:04] Speaker 4: Well among the b grades, that was a pretty big
[43:08] Speaker 4: pile of teams in this piece. I had Pete Cold
[43:10] Speaker 4: in there. Probably need to like maybe should bump him
[43:12] Speaker 4: up a little bit. He certainly passed test number one.
[43:15] Speaker 4: Obviously many more to come, but he certainly as the
[43:18] Speaker 4: first test.
[43:18] Speaker 1: That's good.
[43:20] Speaker 4: Tosh Lapoi California is really interesting to me because obviously,
[43:24] Speaker 4: when like when a guy's regarded as that kind of
[43:26] Speaker 4: a recruiter, like the upside's massive. But I feel like,
[43:30] Speaker 4: I feel like I am very heavy scrutiny on defensive
[43:33] Speaker 4: coordinator hires in general when they get bumped up and
[43:36] Speaker 4: I need to see their offensive coordinator hire. And I'm
[43:40] Speaker 4: always wary of the guys who when they just hire
[43:42] Speaker 4: a pro style guy and he I had the most
[43:45] Speaker 4: pro style guy imaginable, this young guy, Jordan Somerville from
[43:51] Speaker 4: former Oregon staffer, spent like the last four years with
[43:53] Speaker 4: the Tampa Bay Bucks. Like the most pro style guy
[43:56] Speaker 4: you can imagine is who he wants to run his offense.
[43:58] Speaker 4: I don't want to ever trust the word pro style,
[44:01] Speaker 4: and so that's that could go either way for me.
[44:04] Speaker 4: But obviously, you know, getting JKS immediately on board to
[44:09] Speaker 4: come back like that was a good start for him.
[44:11] Speaker 4: I'm just a little little wary still of that situation.
[44:14] Speaker 4: That's kind of the perfect middle ground higher right there,
[44:17] Speaker 4: I see the upside, and I'm worried about the downside.
[44:20] Speaker 1: You know, Napier and Neil Brown.
[44:22] Speaker 4: Neil Brown, I guess it was another one where they
[44:25] Speaker 4: it was perfectly logical in every way for North Texas
[44:27] Speaker 4: to hire him, and also we saw what his last
[44:29] Speaker 4: team did. And also you had a very clear script
[44:32] Speaker 4: of just be the incarnate word of FBS, and they
[44:36] Speaker 4: went with the proven, steady, veteran guy instead. I didn't
[44:38] Speaker 4: love that, but I like Neil Brown, so it could
[44:40] Speaker 4: still work. But those are those are right, lots of
[44:43] Speaker 4: teams right in the middle and only a couple at
[44:45] Speaker 4: the bottom.
[44:48] Speaker 2: In looking back at the stat profiles and the write
[44:52] Speaker 2: ups that you did before the season, which teams to
[44:56] Speaker 2: you were the biggest head scratchers in terms of how
[44:59] Speaker 2: they missed? Obviously we were all wrong right with many
[45:02] Speaker 2: of these projections. I had Penn steak Clemson in the
[45:05] Speaker 2: National Championship. As luck would have it, they're playing in
[45:07] Speaker 2: the Pinstripe Bowl, So yeah, missed a little, got the
[45:10] Speaker 2: matchup right, but stakes were a bit off.
[45:13] Speaker 1: Minor details.
[45:14] Speaker 3: I feel like there were.
[45:16] Speaker 2: A disproportionate number of teams this year, in particular that
[45:20] Speaker 2: we did our previews, we thought we had a pretty
[45:23] Speaker 2: good sense of what they were going to be. It
[45:24] Speaker 2: didn't work out that way at all. As you look
[45:27] Speaker 2: back on what you put together and how you thought
[45:30] Speaker 2: of the season back in early August, which teams to
[45:33] Speaker 2: you remain the biggest head scratchers with how things went,
[45:36] Speaker 2: either for the better or for the worse.
[45:38] Speaker 4: So and it's funny I learned this year that when
[45:41] Speaker 4: we the preseason, our predictions and whatnot, it's not whether
[45:45] Speaker 4: you got it right, it's whether you were the closest
[45:47] Speaker 4: to the pen. Because I got a lot of credit
[45:50] Speaker 4: for being skeptical of Clemson. I thought there was still
[45:52] Speaker 4: going to be a top ten team or topteen team
[45:55] Speaker 4: at worst. So I was right about Clemson. I was
[45:59] Speaker 4: right about Tech because I didn't think they should be
[46:01] Speaker 4: preseason number one. Because if Art is anything less than
[46:03] Speaker 4: the best player in the country, you know, the fact
[46:06] Speaker 4: that his offensive line might actually stink seems like it
[46:08] Speaker 4: might be a big deal. And so, like I, I
[46:13] Speaker 4: understand how those teams, or I understand how Texas underachieved.
[46:17] Speaker 1: For sure, I understand how Penn State underachieved. That was
[46:20] Speaker 1: a I.
[46:22] Speaker 4: Can kind of understand how things played out. They wanted
[46:24] Speaker 4: to keep thinkings as vanilla as possible at the start
[46:27] Speaker 4: of the season instead of just trying.
[46:28] Speaker 1: To look good and play well.
[46:31] Speaker 4: And Aler kind of hit that Oregon game, having still
[46:34] Speaker 4: not really found the rhythm that were that they were
[46:36] Speaker 4: probably hoping he that we were needing to see to
[46:40] Speaker 4: think of them as a national title team. And then
[46:43] Speaker 4: they lose this game that they like. They they they
[46:45] Speaker 4: openly decided their season starts with Oregon. They lost the
[46:48] Speaker 4: game in a very predictable fashion. In a lot of ways,
[46:51] Speaker 4: offense just couldn't do what the offense needed to do
[46:55] Speaker 4: in Portree, Aller, just like the Notre Dame game last year,
[46:58] Speaker 4: It's due Aller, Tom, I'm gonna go win this game,
[47:00] Speaker 4: throws a pick.
[47:01] Speaker 3: Immediately Dan and I were in the stands. What I
[47:05] Speaker 3: said to him.
[47:07] Speaker 2: Ten fifteen minutes before that happened that we were due
[47:12] Speaker 2: and I was not rooting for that, obviously. I was
[47:15] Speaker 2: decked out in all white, my Penn State stuff. But
[47:18] Speaker 2: it just felt like, yeah, my gosh, we're gonna see
[47:20] Speaker 2: this again and well and behold it's Dylan Thiena been
[47:23] Speaker 2: getting the big pick that is the game and kind
[47:25] Speaker 2: of puts the finishing touches on James Franklin at Penn State.
[47:28] Speaker 4: Yeah, so, I mean the way that played out, he
[47:29] Speaker 4: was still a shock to see them play the way
[47:31] Speaker 4: they did against UCLA and Northwestern, But it kind of
[47:33] Speaker 4: still makes sense. Like they had the big game, they
[47:37] Speaker 4: lost it in a familiar fashion. They let go of the
[47:39] Speaker 4: rope briefly, and then after you know, from that point forward,
[47:44] Speaker 4: I assume this probably would have been the case if
[47:45] Speaker 4: they hadn't fired Franklin. You know, they fall to like
[47:48] Speaker 4: eighteenth and SP plus and then they basically play like
[47:50] Speaker 4: the number eighteen team the rest of the season. You know,
[47:52] Speaker 4: they almost beat Iowa, they almost beat Indiana. People were
[47:55] Speaker 4: railing against the l S P plus sucks. They look
[47:58] Speaker 4: at Penn State, that's a joke. Like, No, they played
[48:00] Speaker 4: like exactly where as people had them. They met expectations
[48:03] Speaker 4: or projections the rest of the season. So it was
[48:05] Speaker 4: just this momentary collapse after putting all this weight on
[48:09] Speaker 4: the organ game, and then they rallied and kind of
[48:11] Speaker 4: played to their general talent. They weren't the team they
[48:14] Speaker 4: were supposed to be, But I get that, and I
[48:16] Speaker 4: get Texas. I still have no idea how Clemson happened,
[48:20] Speaker 4: even being skeptical of them. Again, I thought skeptical meant
[48:25] Speaker 4: top ten or fifteen. They're not going to win the
[48:27] Speaker 4: national title. I never saw that team. But where are they?
[48:30] Speaker 4: They're thirty second at SPPLUS and that's that's that they
[48:33] Speaker 4: improved late because they just never looked a part on defense.
[48:36] Speaker 4: They never looked a part on offense. Their offensive line
[48:39] Speaker 4: seemed to regress even though they had experience. The injuries
[48:43] Speaker 4: in the receiving corps absolutely didn't help. But if Clubnick
[48:46] Speaker 4: was Klubnik still had good receivers available at any one time.
[48:50] Speaker 4: Never looked. I thought we overreacted to how he looked
[48:54] Speaker 4: last year. But he's still never even looked like last
[48:56] Speaker 4: year's cave Clubnick. So that one is still a mystery
[48:59] Speaker 4: to me. Like the fact that they didn't compete for
[49:01] Speaker 4: the national title. Fine, I get, but they never looked
[49:04] Speaker 4: like even a very good team this year. And I
[49:07] Speaker 4: don't understand that at all.
[49:10] Speaker 2: Which teams were better than most of the college football
[49:14] Speaker 2: watching world will ever realize who was the most underrated
[49:19] Speaker 2: in college football in twenty twenty five.
[49:22] Speaker 4: I mean, I think you can make a case for
[49:23] Speaker 4: Indiana and Tech still when I put out spplus yesterday
[49:26] Speaker 4: and Indiana is a projected thirteen point favorite over Alabama.
[49:30] Speaker 4: People were shocked, like, have you of course they are.
[49:34] Speaker 4: Of course they're double digit favorites. Have you seen these
[49:36] Speaker 4: two teams play this year? So I still think we're
[49:38] Speaker 4: kind of struggling with that. Utah is an interesting one.
[49:42] Speaker 4: They weren't good enough to be Texas Tech. They lost
[49:45] Speaker 4: a toss up game to BYU, but that offense was phenomenal.
[49:50] Speaker 4: The fact that they were able to create an offense
[49:51] Speaker 4: around Devin Dampier that was awesome on passing downs. Beck
[49:55] Speaker 4: is an awesome offensive coordinator. Really curious what his career
[50:00] Speaker 4: path is moving forward. I haven't seen is if Scaley's
[50:03] Speaker 4: going to keep him they I haven't checked that yet,
[50:08] Speaker 4: but like, that was an incredible performance what they did
[50:11] Speaker 4: this season, even if that Tech, even if that Tech
[50:14] Speaker 4: game was they blinked in that moment and Tech just
[50:17] Speaker 4: ran over them. They were other. I mean the hell,
[50:19] Speaker 4: they're what tenth and sp plus Just an awesome team
[50:24] Speaker 4: all around. I was surprised that Whittingham didn't give it
[50:27] Speaker 4: one more go next year because they were really, really
[50:30] Speaker 4: solid and they could have been solid again and that
[50:32] Speaker 4: still might be, but that's one that I think kind
[50:35] Speaker 4: of sneaked up on people, especially if the first time
[50:37] Speaker 4: you paid attention to them was the Texas Tech game,
[50:39] Speaker 4: right like, might not have noticed how much they absolutely
[50:43] Speaker 4: maulled just about everybody else on their schedule.
[50:45] Speaker 2: I've talked a lot about and this is probably a
[50:48] Speaker 2: bit going a bit of field here, but I have
[50:52] Speaker 2: been saying for as far back as I can remember
[50:56] Speaker 2: now in the twenty twenty five season, that one of
[50:58] Speaker 2: my favorite stories of Mississippi State, and.
[51:00] Speaker 3: I'm curious to get your take on that.
[51:02] Speaker 2: I know it's a very specific example that many listening
[51:05] Speaker 2: to this will might not necessarily care about, but for me,
[51:08] Speaker 2: it was a big deal that they had the lowest
[51:12] Speaker 2: over under of any team in the SEC at three
[51:14] Speaker 2: and a half, and they were just as we say
[51:16] Speaker 2: on the show, they're plucky as hell, like they played
[51:19] Speaker 2: whistle to whistle. They obviously didn't win all the games,
[51:21] Speaker 2: but I thought coming from where they did, given the
[51:25] Speaker 2: fact that they still had a murderer's roll of a
[51:27] Speaker 2: schedule playing in the SEC, I liked what I saw
[51:30] Speaker 2: out of them. Does that track with what you saw
[51:33] Speaker 2: and what your stats saw?
[51:34] Speaker 4: Out of Mississippi State until they at the end they
[51:38] Speaker 4: ran out of gas at the end of the year.
[51:40] Speaker 1: I think it's safe to say, you know.
[51:42] Speaker 4: Just looking at one of the things I like to
[51:44] Speaker 4: keep track of because it does kind of hint at
[51:46] Speaker 4: who's rising and falling and whatnot, is just you know,
[51:49] Speaker 4: I have my little excel she with my green and
[51:52] Speaker 4: red conditional format, and then you know, week to week
[51:55] Speaker 4: who's very green in terms of how they're performing versus
[51:59] Speaker 4: s P plus projections. They were a very consistent overachiever
[52:04] Speaker 4: or either meeting or exceeding expectations for almost every game
[52:08] Speaker 4: in the first like two thirds of the season got
[52:10] Speaker 4: you know, the A and N game got away from them,
[52:12] Speaker 4: but otherwise, yeah, almost beat Tennessee, almost beat Florida, almost
[52:16] Speaker 4: beat Texas.
[52:17] Speaker 1: Really really solid team there.
[52:18] Speaker 4: But after they beat Arkansas, underachieved against Georgia, underachieved against Missouri,
[52:23] Speaker 4: underachieved against Ole Miss. So they didn't finish strong. But
[52:26] Speaker 4: they were lifeless last year. So yeah, the fact that
[52:28] Speaker 4: they were able to with Lake Shapin, who was about
[52:32] Speaker 4: the most like known quantity quarterback imaginable like he's going
[52:36] Speaker 4: to give you exactly this and not a bit higher.
[52:38] Speaker 4: They were able to figure out ways to move the
[52:41] Speaker 4: ball really well. Defense couldn't keep up with that, but
[52:44] Speaker 4: was still better than last year. And I think going
[52:46] Speaker 4: ahead and make an a coordinator change was the right
[52:48] Speaker 4: move there. But no, they were that was a horrible
[52:52] Speaker 4: first year he had and they got off the mat
[52:54] Speaker 4: at least even if they faded late.
[52:57] Speaker 2: So this might be putting you a bit on the spot.
[52:59] Speaker 2: But about ten minutes ago, speaking of coordinative changes, I
[53:03] Speaker 2: am seeing here from our friends over at on three
[53:05] Speaker 2: that Bill Belichick has hired a new offensive coordinator and
[53:09] Speaker 2: his name is one Bobby Petrino.
[53:13] Speaker 4: Well, I guess that clinches the Bill Belichick's getting fired
[53:15] Speaker 4: after this year. That's that is the move you make
[53:20] Speaker 4: before you get fired, and it's it is funny. It's
[53:23] Speaker 4: a move that works but still gets you fired. So
[53:28] Speaker 4: because I mean, that's like Arkansas had a great offense
[53:30] Speaker 4: this year, best offense ever for a two and ten
[53:32] Speaker 4: team or whatever they end up. But I man, that
[53:38] Speaker 4: makes a lot of sense in a lot of ways.
[53:40] Speaker 4: He's still a pretty good offensive coordinator and those personalities
[53:44] Speaker 4: make a lot of sense.
[53:46] Speaker 2: Fair enough, The other thing that is now about to
[53:51] Speaker 2: kick into high gear. It's already started as a transfer portal.
[53:54] Speaker 2: We've seen some of these quarterbacks throw their name in
[53:57] Speaker 2: the hat. I want to ask a Delan Roola. I've
[54:01] Speaker 2: had spirited conversations with the ballers on both sides of
[54:05] Speaker 2: the Riola spectrum. I figure you're a good person to
[54:09] Speaker 2: talk to about this, given your focus on the numbers
[54:13] Speaker 2: and your understanding of all these things. Is Dylan Ryol
[54:16] Speaker 2: good question mark? He is pause long pause, Okay, that
[54:25] Speaker 2: answers some.
[54:26] Speaker 3: Of it, but please continue.
[54:27] Speaker 1: He is well, this is a good word to use.
[54:30] Speaker 1: He is solid. It was fine.
[54:34] Speaker 4: He was the litmus test for what stat do you
[54:36] Speaker 4: look at first with a quarterback? Because he comes out
[54:39] Speaker 4: of the gate completed like eighty percent of his passes
[54:42] Speaker 4: for like four yards of completion or whatever. It was
[54:45] Speaker 4: like the past didn't go anywhere. But even in that
[54:47] Speaker 4: first game, what were his numbers against Cincinnati? It was very,
[54:52] Speaker 4: very high completion rate. And my initial reaction to that
[54:55] Speaker 4: game was, I don't know, and Nebraska fans got so mad. Yeah,
[54:59] Speaker 4: he's thirty three for two, huge for two hundred and
[55:02] Speaker 4: forty three yards.
[55:03] Speaker 2: That was That was what a lot of folks brought
[55:06] Speaker 2: up to me. Whenever we had anything negative to say
[55:09] Speaker 2: about Rola and Dan and I were probably on both
[55:13] Speaker 2: ends of the spectrum with that one too, But it
[55:15] Speaker 2: was look at his completion person kind accurate this guy is.
[55:19] Speaker 2: But Dan has been very quick to say, but what
[55:22] Speaker 2: what how is that actually translating into anything a parent?
[55:25] Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, his only like.
[55:29] Speaker 4: You know, after the Cincinnati game, he was putting legit
[55:31] Speaker 4: numbers up for a while, but it was against Acrones,
[55:33] Speaker 4: against Houston Christian.
[55:35] Speaker 1: I guess he was decent against Michigan. Of course.
[55:38] Speaker 4: I'm just looking at his game to game stats here
[55:39] Speaker 4: to make sure I don't forget something. But you know,
[55:41] Speaker 4: then you know, in the games where he actually kind
[55:44] Speaker 4: of makes some big passes, like Maryland, he also throws
[55:46] Speaker 4: three picks.
[55:47] Speaker 1: So it was a very mixed bag for Raola.
[55:52] Speaker 4: Like obviously we see the potential and you know, the
[55:56] Speaker 4: Mahomes like it's it's clearly he he just stuck nothing
[56:00] Speaker 4: but Mahomes film for years, it seems like because every
[56:03] Speaker 4: mannerism is like he's trying to be that. And honestly,
[56:06] Speaker 4: when when NFL defenses started trying to take away big
[56:08] Speaker 4: plays for Mahomes, he was completing in eighty percent of
[56:10] Speaker 4: his passes at like eight yards of pop there for
[56:12] Speaker 4: a little while, but no, it's in the right system.
[56:17] Speaker 4: I think you can get solid things out of him.
[56:19] Speaker 4: But I mean, if you're a top team, that is
[56:22] Speaker 4: it's a really interesting transfer market this year where a
[56:24] Speaker 4: whole bunch of teams want upgrades of quarterbacks, aren't gonna
[56:27] Speaker 4: and are going to spend multiple millions of dollars on
[56:31] Speaker 4: Rayola soresby a lot of guys who have clear upside
[56:36] Speaker 4: and also a pretty hard ceiling.
[56:39] Speaker 1: I think, is.
[56:41] Speaker 2: There a guy we can focus on quarterbacks? Since that's
[56:44] Speaker 2: going to be the main talking point as we go
[56:46] Speaker 2: into the portal? Is there a guy to you that
[56:51] Speaker 2: you are crazy curious about where he ends up because
[56:55] Speaker 2: you think the ceiling is yet to be realized?
[57:05] Speaker 1: Man, I don't know, Like Josh Hoover is kind of interesting.
[57:08] Speaker 1: I guess.
[57:10] Speaker 4: You know it's Kenna Briles is kind of the ultimate
[57:13] Speaker 4: solid offensive coordinator at this point, and so I can't
[57:17] Speaker 4: tell if he was if he had hit his ceiling
[57:20] Speaker 4: or not, but I mean he's he's accurately, he can
[57:22] Speaker 4: run around a little bit. That one's gonna be kind
[57:24] Speaker 4: of interesting to see. I have more faith in him
[57:27] Speaker 4: than in him than in Royola or maybe sores be sorts,
[57:31] Speaker 4: be so confusing, like I from game to game, I
[57:34] Speaker 4: changed my mind completely. He's the Chelsea FC of transfer quarterbacks. Sorry,
[57:39] Speaker 4: you know, sorry for the soccer reference, but you know,
[57:43] Speaker 4: he's I feel like I kind of I don't have
[57:46] Speaker 4: a lot of faith in them. I might still have
[57:47] Speaker 4: faith in in Hoover taking an extra step otherwise, I mean,
[57:51] Speaker 4: what is it?
[57:52] Speaker 1: It's guys like Aaron Noland.
[57:54] Speaker 4: Who or star recruits just haven't but have been stuck
[57:57] Speaker 4: and we have no idea what they have to offer.
[57:59] Speaker 4: Like that's kind of your two choices is very well
[58:02] Speaker 4: defined veteran like Bo Pagula honestly, or guy who we
[58:06] Speaker 4: just don't know anything about yet.
[58:09] Speaker 3: Because you brought up the soccer. We talked about the
[58:13] Speaker 3: soccer on the show, specifically with regard to the portal.
[58:16] Speaker 3: We even called it the transfer market. Is I think
[58:18] Speaker 3: you just did reflexively. Should there be some sort of setup?
[58:25] Speaker 2: I guess back to our conversation earlier on where if
[58:29] Speaker 2: you are poaching a guy from a max school, you
[58:31] Speaker 2: should be required to pay some sort of sum like
[58:34] Speaker 2: they do in the soccer transfer market.
[58:37] Speaker 4: I mean, that's one of those things that sounds great
[58:39] Speaker 4: and also how the hell do you, like, I guess,
[58:41] Speaker 4: stick it into the.
[58:44] Speaker 1: Mythological collective bargaining.
[58:47] Speaker 4: Agreement that we all think should happen, but nobody wants
[58:49] Speaker 4: to talk about details for I mean, unless you stick
[58:53] Speaker 4: it in there. I have no idea how that happens,
[58:55] Speaker 4: but it is. You know, when you start paying attention
[59:00] Speaker 4: to soccer long enough, you start to wonder if those
[59:03] Speaker 4: transfer fees really help anything. Either, Like, obviously it helps
[59:06] Speaker 4: you then go buy some other eighteen year old to
[59:08] Speaker 4: replace the guy, but.
[59:09] Speaker 1: Like a long term you don't really advance from. I
[59:14] Speaker 1: don't know.
[59:15] Speaker 4: I guess it still helps, like the Benfiicas of the
[59:16] Speaker 4: world and whatnot, but like, it has its downsides as well,
[59:20] Speaker 4: But it does kind of stink if you're James Madison
[59:23] Speaker 4: or many many other programs, and your reward for having
[59:26] Speaker 4: your act together is having to bring in twenty five
[59:29] Speaker 4: new transfers or trust a redshirt freshman a lot faster
[59:32] Speaker 4: than you would have had two fifteen years ago. Because
[59:36] Speaker 4: schools that are doing well are continue doing well. Just
[59:38] Speaker 4: look at FCS. I mean, I realize North Dakota State lost.
[59:41] Speaker 4: They actually did a good job and not losing too
[59:43] Speaker 4: many transfers, they still lost some transfers. That that Texas
[59:46] Speaker 4: Tech safety is dynamite. They lost him and still fielded
[59:50] Speaker 4: a phenomenal team. So like, if you have your act
[59:53] Speaker 4: together program wise and culture wise and all that, you
[59:56] Speaker 4: can survive this stuff. But it does feel like there's
[59:59] Speaker 4: a little bit extra punishment for doing well.
[1:00:02] Speaker 2: Right now, Bill, I'll get you out of here in
[1:00:04] Speaker 2: a second, I promise. I just wanted to call out
[1:00:08] Speaker 2: the non playoff bowl action, which maybe fits in differently
[1:00:14] Speaker 2: now to the postseason than had prior to the twelve
[1:00:17] Speaker 2: team field. But generally speaking, what is of interest to
[1:00:21] Speaker 2: you in those bowl games? What are the storylines that
[1:00:25] Speaker 2: you're following? Where are the points of intrigue there?
[1:00:28] Speaker 4: It is we have returned all the way to like
[1:00:30] Speaker 4: the nineteen fifties, where bowl games are simply rewards for
[1:00:34] Speaker 4: solid season.
[1:00:35] Speaker 1: They are exhibition games that are rewards.
[1:00:37] Speaker 4: For solid seasons that don't mean a thing, which I mean,
[1:00:42] Speaker 4: one thing you learn real fast is when players are
[1:00:44] Speaker 4: just kind of out there to have fun.
[1:00:47] Speaker 1: It's a fun game.
[1:00:48] Speaker 3: It is.
[1:00:48] Speaker 1: It's fun to way a.
[1:00:49] Speaker 4: Lot of fun football being played It's like, you know,
[1:00:52] Speaker 4: maybe a couple extra chick plays and you're willing to.
[1:00:55] Speaker 4: You're not afraid of losing. Therefore you're having fun and
[1:00:57] Speaker 4: being aggressive, and so the games are still fun. I
[1:01:00] Speaker 4: think a lot of schools still get a lot out
[1:01:01] Speaker 4: of them. But it is hard to It's hard to trust,
[1:01:05] Speaker 4: you know, when I write a Bowl preview, like, man,
[1:01:06] Speaker 4: I don't know who.
[1:01:08] Speaker 1: Is going to be opting out of any of these games.
[1:01:10] Speaker 1: I have no idea what teams are going to.
[1:01:11] Speaker 4: Take the field, so I'm really just searching either for
[1:01:14] Speaker 4: like a Diego Pavia versus Iowa situation where we get
[1:01:18] Speaker 4: one last go round for the stars who stay and play.
[1:01:22] Speaker 4: Those are always pretty cool. Honestly, the Missouri Virginia game
[1:01:27] Speaker 4: got a lot more interesting to me when Pabula went
[1:01:29] Speaker 4: ahead and entered the portal. Figured that was a I
[1:01:31] Speaker 4: don't think I'm going to start next year, so I'm
[1:01:33] Speaker 4: gonna go ahead and get ahead start. But that means
[1:01:35] Speaker 4: Matt Zallars has a chance to completely define Missouri's transfer
[1:01:39] Speaker 4: strategy by whether he looks good or not. If he
[1:01:41] Speaker 4: looks good, maybe they just try to get a veteran
[1:01:43] Speaker 4: back up Drew Pine type in the portal and then
[1:01:46] Speaker 4: they have more money to spend on others.
[1:01:48] Speaker 2: Drew Pine probably has like five years of eligibility least
[1:01:50] Speaker 2: I never still get him.
[1:01:51] Speaker 1: Yeah, just go get Drew again. It works bad o
[1:01:53] Speaker 1: you last year.
[1:01:55] Speaker 4: But like, and if he looks terrible, then they'll probably
[1:01:59] Speaker 4: have to go in pretty heavy on one of these
[1:02:02] Speaker 4: these well defined low ceiling transfers I just talked about.
[1:02:05] Speaker 1: But you know.
[1:02:07] Speaker 4: That so that games where there are actually stakes of
[1:02:10] Speaker 4: some sort, even if it doesn't like it's not a
[1:02:12] Speaker 4: pure this team really needs to win kind of situation,
[1:02:14] Speaker 4: those are still pretty interesting. But it does think especially
[1:02:18] Speaker 4: for the mid major games like old domnu USF you like,
[1:02:23] Speaker 4: that would have been a gray is still a pretty
[1:02:25] Speaker 4: good fun game, but that would have been an incredible
[1:02:27] Speaker 4: game in September when both teams had their starting quarterbacks
[1:02:32] Speaker 4: who they no longer had win.
[1:02:33] Speaker 1: The game actually happened.
[1:02:34] Speaker 4: That that kind of stinks and just I'm I would
[1:02:38] Speaker 4: immediately gravitor towards the game, like North Texas San Diego State.
[1:02:41] Speaker 4: But as I know Messa makers probably entering the portal,
[1:02:44] Speaker 4: he probably is not going to play it, or maybe
[1:02:45] Speaker 4: it's official that he's not going to play, so that
[1:02:47] Speaker 4: game kind of isn't as fun as it could have been.
[1:02:49] Speaker 4: So it does kind of stink. You're it's it's good content,
[1:02:52] Speaker 4: it's good entertainment, but you still you're not getting a
[1:02:57] Speaker 4: last picture of a team like you would of however
[1:03:00] Speaker 4: many years ago, and that is that is different.
[1:03:03] Speaker 1: It's a different type of content.
[1:03:05] Speaker 2: I was heartened at least by this, And I'm not
[1:03:08] Speaker 2: much for TV ratings, but I did go back and
[1:03:12] Speaker 2: look after the fact to see last year, what were
[1:03:15] Speaker 2: those ratings like compared to previous years because of the
[1:03:18] Speaker 2: playoff field, And at least the sentiment that I was
[1:03:21] Speaker 2: picking up for some people that wrote into the show
[1:03:23] Speaker 2: was that, well, you know, the bowl games don't mean
[1:03:25] Speaker 2: as much now, right, Like why do we don't really
[1:03:27] Speaker 2: care about those bowl games?
[1:03:28] Speaker 3: But ratings were actually.
[1:03:29] Speaker 2: Up, So if that's any indication, again, definitely not my lane,
[1:03:34] Speaker 2: but I would hope that those games continue, and I
[1:03:37] Speaker 2: know we're probably going to see fewer of them in
[1:03:38] Speaker 2: the future, but I do think it still needs to
[1:03:41] Speaker 2: be part of the college football postseason. It is a
[1:03:44] Speaker 2: very important part of how we consume this sport and
[1:03:46] Speaker 2: think about this sport.
[1:03:47] Speaker 4: And what stinks is if we get rid of some,
[1:03:51] Speaker 4: it'll be the mid major opportunities that go first, and
[1:03:53] Speaker 4: they're the ones who get the most out of these
[1:03:54] Speaker 4: damn games.
[1:03:56] Speaker 1: Not the six and six SEC.
[1:03:57] Speaker 4: Team that will always play in a bowl, but the
[1:04:00] Speaker 4: seven and five major team that had to rally after
[1:04:03] Speaker 4: you know, going one in three in conference and non
[1:04:05] Speaker 4: conference player or whatever. You get probably the most out
[1:04:08] Speaker 4: of this. And though that'll be the first ones on
[1:04:10] Speaker 4: the chopping block, I do have a question. Actually, you
[1:04:13] Speaker 4: know you have a you have a Notre Dame tie. Sorry,
[1:04:18] Speaker 4: but my theory and I wrote about this in the spring,
[1:04:21] Speaker 4: and I've been thinking about it more. Number One, with
[1:04:25] Speaker 4: the whole formula thing that I was talking about, Uh
[1:04:29] Speaker 4: you know where it feels less personal for Notre Dame
[1:04:31] Speaker 4: that they missed out. Number one, with the formula, they
[1:04:33] Speaker 4: wouldn't have missed out. But that's not the point.
[1:04:34] Speaker 1: Let's say they they narrowly miss out. Anyway, My thought.
[1:04:39] Speaker 4: With with with Bulls moving forward, we always talk about,
[1:04:42] Speaker 4: like it's unanimous that quarterfinals should be home games. We
[1:04:45] Speaker 4: should get you know, the Bulls have too much sway here,
[1:04:48] Speaker 4: and the idea is they want to make sure that
[1:04:50] Speaker 4: those major bowls are still major bowls and therefore they
[1:04:53] Speaker 4: have to be part of this. I'm not going to
[1:04:56] Speaker 4: remember who played in the Cotton Bowl a year from now, No,
[1:04:59] Speaker 4: because it was a neutral side Dallas quarterfinal. But if
[1:05:03] Speaker 4: the Cotton Bowl, if you took those four games, quarterfinals
[1:05:08] Speaker 4: are now home games, and you take those four major
[1:05:10] Speaker 4: bowls and you literally pair up the top eight teams
[1:05:14] Speaker 4: that missed based purely on attractiveness of potential matchup. You
[1:05:19] Speaker 4: get a weird one like Vanderbilt Arizona in the Sugar Bowl,
[1:05:22] Speaker 4: but you'd get a Texas USC Rose Bowl, and you'd
[1:05:28] Speaker 4: get a potential Actually, when I paired this up, I
[1:05:31] Speaker 4: got I think it was Vandya Arizona in the Sugar Bowl,
[1:05:35] Speaker 4: BYU Utah in the Cotton Bowl, Texas USC and the
[1:05:39] Speaker 4: Rose Bowl, and Notre Dame Michigan in the Orange Bowl.
[1:05:45] Speaker 1: Isn't that better? A? Isn't it better? And B?
[1:05:49] Speaker 4: Does Notre Dame opt out if they're looking at a
[1:05:52] Speaker 4: major potential bowl against Michigan and they haven't, they don't
[1:05:57] Speaker 4: feel like they were personally screwed by a group of
[1:05:59] Speaker 4: people and it was an algorithm that they merely missed
[1:06:03] Speaker 4: out on. Do they still opt out or do is
[1:06:06] Speaker 4: there a chance that they say, well that sucks, let's
[1:06:09] Speaker 4: go be Michigan.
[1:06:11] Speaker 3: I mean the way that they.
[1:06:14] Speaker 2: Described how they opted out or why they opted out,
[1:06:18] Speaker 2: they described it as a rug pull. And to your point,
[1:06:22] Speaker 2: there's no way you can look at the way they
[1:06:24] Speaker 2: acted afterwards and not think that there was some bit
[1:06:28] Speaker 2: of personal animosity at play. So I would agree with that.
[1:06:33] Speaker 2: And my hunch is that if the process were a
[1:06:36] Speaker 2: little bit more transparent along the way, if they knew
[1:06:40] Speaker 2: along the way that they were behind Miami, they might
[1:06:42] Speaker 2: have reacted differently. But the way this thing played out,
[1:06:45] Speaker 2: it gave them grounds to obviously go on this media
[1:06:48] Speaker 2: blitz and play it out through the media.
[1:06:51] Speaker 4: And I try to spend all their sympathy points immediately
[1:06:55] Speaker 4: everybody has sympathy for them, and then.
[1:06:56] Speaker 1: They immliately you try to get rid of that.
[1:06:57] Speaker 2: But anyway, yeah, exactly to the point, I don't think
[1:07:00] Speaker 2: playing Michigan. I mean, obviously that would be a great matchup, right,
[1:07:05] Speaker 2: and that matchup in and of itself has a lot
[1:07:07] Speaker 2: of conversation around it. So I would be surprised if
[1:07:12] Speaker 2: in this hypothetical universe, Notre Dame would want to miss
[1:07:15] Speaker 2: out on that. But that being said, it was potentially
[1:07:17] Speaker 2: a really good matchup against BYU that they missed out
[1:07:20] Speaker 2: against it well, and I understand pop Tart Bowl that's
[1:07:23] Speaker 2: not as sure point taken, but I just think the
[1:07:26] Speaker 2: circumstances probably dictated it more than the matchup. My only
[1:07:31] Speaker 2: concern with that. And by the way, I like the idea.
[1:07:34] Speaker 2: I think it's a great idea. I'm definitely not in
[1:07:37] Speaker 2: favor of having more neutral syche games. I think we
[1:07:39] Speaker 2: should play as many of these on campuses as we can.
[1:07:42] Speaker 2: The issue, though, was still with opt outs. The issue
[1:07:44] Speaker 2: is still with if these games don't actually mean anything,
[1:07:47] Speaker 2: and if the stakes aren't that high, then you're going
[1:07:50] Speaker 2: to have teams that are performing or playing in these
[1:07:52] Speaker 2: games and their performance is going to be dictated by
[1:07:57] Speaker 2: basically a skeleton of.
[1:07:59] Speaker 3: Their normal roster.
[1:08:00] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:08:01] Speaker 3: I don't know how you get around that.
[1:08:02] Speaker 4: Yeah, Jeremi Love's not playing in this game, no matter what,
[1:08:05] Speaker 4: not even if it's Michigan, even if it's whatever. Obviously
[1:08:08] Speaker 4: he's out no matter what. But still like, you know, okay,
[1:08:11] Speaker 4: we'll get your whatever. The next star they're trying to
[1:08:14] Speaker 4: groom is like the third string or whatever. Here's your chance,
[1:08:17] Speaker 4: here's your big star game. Go rush for one hundred
[1:08:19] Speaker 4: and fifty yards against Michigan. There's still something to that.
[1:08:22] Speaker 4: I don't mind the opt outs as much, even though
[1:08:24] Speaker 4: it does, you know, you wish you could see one
[1:08:26] Speaker 4: a player play one last time like that's still I
[1:08:32] Speaker 4: can get around that. But yeah, getting around a team
[1:08:35] Speaker 4: opting out is really hard. And that was didn't like
[1:08:39] Speaker 4: and I can't even completely blame them. It did feel personal,
[1:08:42] Speaker 4: I'm sure, but that that did stink.
[1:08:46] Speaker 2: I'm going to get you out of here on this.
[1:08:49] Speaker 2: Speaking of bulls and different proposals, I think it was
[1:08:52] Speaker 2: Rick Neuheisel who proposed that they should just qualify for
[1:08:57] Speaker 2: a ball and then play that week one of the
[1:08:58] Speaker 2: following season.
[1:09:00] Speaker 1: We've talked.
[1:09:01] Speaker 4: We dine a piece on group piece, like me and
[1:09:03] Speaker 4: Hale and some others did a piece about that, like
[1:09:05] Speaker 4: how do you fix the calendar? It's so weird, And
[1:09:07] Speaker 4: that was one of the ideas to explore was basically,
[1:09:10] Speaker 4: you know you start weeks, have week zero or week
[1:09:13] Speaker 4: zero in week one, bunch of marquee matchups. I mean,
[1:09:17] Speaker 4: lord knows, like old Dominion USF would have been at
[1:09:22] Speaker 4: least a hair more interesting in Week one and next season,
[1:09:24] Speaker 4: and then of course the big name ones too, you know, Texas, Michigan.
[1:09:28] Speaker 1: You know that it makes sense.
[1:09:31] Speaker 4: I still, you know, content is a dirty word, but
[1:09:34] Speaker 4: I like the content. I like having December football to
[1:09:38] Speaker 4: watch throughout the Christmas break and whatnot. So I do
[1:09:43] Speaker 4: think bulls still serve a very clear purpose here, even
[1:09:46] Speaker 4: if they're not the purpose that they were it was
[1:09:48] Speaker 4: fifteen years ago. So I'm not on board with it,
[1:09:51] Speaker 4: but I get it, and there's at least some merit
[1:09:53] Speaker 4: to the idea.
[1:09:55] Speaker 2: Again, the title of the book is Forward Progress, The
[1:09:57] Speaker 2: Definitive Guide to the Future of College Football. The big
[1:10:00] Speaker 2: bolden line under that is a cinematic celebration of college
[1:10:04] Speaker 2: football's exploding influence and a rigorous look at how and
[1:10:07] Speaker 2: why the sport said it. Man, we totally knew. Once again,
[1:10:11] Speaker 2: what does that mean? What is this book about? What
[1:10:14] Speaker 2: is the what is the general vibe of what you're
[1:10:17] Speaker 2: going for here? And why should people buy it?
[1:10:20] Speaker 1: Well, I mean because it's a good book, obviously, I mean.
[1:10:23] Speaker 4: Well, sure, I mean clearly, no, and it really you
[1:10:27] Speaker 4: know it was Writing about current events is really hard
[1:10:30] Speaker 4: because you know, the world changes by the time the
[1:10:32] Speaker 4: book comes out, But I like, you know, it was
[1:10:34] Speaker 4: kind of scrolling back through it the other day, and
[1:10:37] Speaker 4: I think a lot of it still really holds up.
[1:10:40] Speaker 4: It's it's it was with so much change. Number one,
[1:10:44] Speaker 4: I felt like, you know, we were treating changed as
[1:10:47] Speaker 4: like a monolith, like this one thing that is changing
[1:10:50] Speaker 4: the sport, when it's like thirty eight different things, and
[1:10:52] Speaker 4: being able to step back and kind of approach history
[1:10:55] Speaker 4: of conference realignment, history of television's relationship with the sport,
[1:10:59] Speaker 4: history of this, history of that, arguing about a playoff,
[1:11:01] Speaker 4: why we don't have a commissioner, all these things, and
[1:11:03] Speaker 4: then just trying as hard as I could to spend
[1:11:05] Speaker 4: something forward.
[1:11:06] Speaker 1: That's the hardest thing to do.
[1:11:07] Speaker 4: Like, definitive Guide to the Future college football is a
[1:11:10] Speaker 4: bunch of crap.
[1:11:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to rewrite it in like eight months, right, well, right, and.
[1:11:15] Speaker 4: Just there's nothing definitive. We know where things stand right now.
[1:11:18] Speaker 4: And if you are worried about things, like you know,
[1:11:22] Speaker 4: we're eliminating all future poise states that stinks a lot
[1:11:25] Speaker 4: of there's a lot of reason to worry about that
[1:11:28] Speaker 4: aspect about alienating fans and whatnot. But paying players is
[1:11:33] Speaker 4: still awesome and doesn't have to have been a bad
[1:11:36] Speaker 4: thing at all. That's kind of part of the reason
[1:11:38] Speaker 4: Indiana is suddenly the number one team in the country. Like,
[1:11:42] Speaker 4: some of the changes have been really really good for
[1:11:45] Speaker 4: the sport, I think, and could still be good moving
[1:11:47] Speaker 4: forward if we clear out the bad stuff. But you know,
[1:11:51] Speaker 4: just being able to isolate each one of these and
[1:11:53] Speaker 4: get a little weird towards the end, me and Jason
[1:11:55] Speaker 4: Kirk going on a ten page rant about why the
[1:11:58] Speaker 4: SEC should expand to one hundred and forty teams, that
[1:12:01] Speaker 4: kind of thing that was, you know. I tried to
[1:12:04] Speaker 4: bring some fun to it as well, and I think
[1:12:06] Speaker 4: it was a very me book. So that's If you
[1:12:09] Speaker 4: like me, you'll like the book. If you don't like me,
[1:12:11] Speaker 4: you probably won't.
[1:12:12] Speaker 1: But that's fine.
[1:12:13] Speaker 3: Well, we like you.
[1:12:15] Speaker 2: You are always welcome here, Bill. I have great respect
[1:12:17] Speaker 2: Dan does too for the work that you do. Thank
[1:12:19] Speaker 2: you for making us all smarter, and we'll have to
[1:12:22] Speaker 2: do this again very soon.
[1:12:23] Speaker 1: All right, sounds good?
[1:12:25] Speaker 3: All right, there you go.
[1:12:26] Speaker 2: Bill CONNOLLYESPN dot com the author of the book Forward Progress,
[1:12:31] Speaker 2: The Definitive Guide to the Future of College Football. I've
[1:12:34] Speaker 2: got that link down in the description. If you're able,
[1:12:37] Speaker 2: please consider picking it up to support Bill's work. He is,
[1:12:41] Speaker 2: as you know, one of our longest running friends in
[1:12:44] Speaker 2: this space, just a guy that we turned to time
[1:12:46] Speaker 2: and again to get his opinion on things. Man, I
[1:12:51] Speaker 2: would pay good money to see him debate some of
[1:12:54] Speaker 2: the other voices in this G five CFP conversation that
[1:12:59] Speaker 2: has raged on line over the last couple of months
[1:13:02] Speaker 2: and weeks. I think he would stuff a lot of
[1:13:04] Speaker 2: them at a locker. But that's just me speaking from
[1:13:07] Speaker 2: my perspective. You know where I stand on it. Obviously,
[1:13:11] Speaker 2: would welcome many other viewpoints out there to write in
[1:13:14] Speaker 2: soliverbo at gmail dot com.
[1:13:15] Speaker 3: That's what we're here for. We read it all, we
[1:13:17] Speaker 3: can't respond to.
[1:13:17] Speaker 2: It all, but we appreciate your support nonetheless, and obviously
[1:13:22] Speaker 2: appreciate all the time that Bill gave me here today.
[1:13:25] Speaker 2: As I said at the top, Dan will be back
[1:13:27] Speaker 2: with me on Sunday. We're going to preview the next
[1:13:29] Speaker 2: round of the college football Playoff, the four quarterfinal games,
[1:13:32] Speaker 2: which by the way, are absolute bangers. On New Year's
[1:13:35] Speaker 2: Eve and New Year's Day, we're going to talk through
[1:13:37] Speaker 2: all of that. We won't be putting out a show
[1:13:39] Speaker 2: on Christmas Day. No one's going to download it.
[1:13:42] Speaker 3: I've been doing this long enough to know.
[1:13:43] Speaker 2: People just don't download on holidays, so we're not going
[1:13:46] Speaker 2: to do that. We're going to take a few days
[1:13:49] Speaker 2: off here to catch our breath. Next episode drops on
[1:13:52] Speaker 2: Sunday as we round the bend into college football playoff
[1:13:57] Speaker 2: quarterfinal action. If you've made it this far, please consider
[1:14:00] Speaker 2: hitting follow or subscribe. Please also do check out playbowlbingo
[1:14:04] Speaker 2: dot com. That is our postseason game. It's free for all.
[1:14:08] Speaker 2: All you got to do is sign up as a
[1:14:09] Speaker 2: free or paid member of our Patreon if you want
[1:14:12] Speaker 2: to get access and find out what that is all about.
[1:14:15] Speaker 2: In the meantime, thank you again as always for tuning in.
[1:14:18] Speaker 2: Thank you as always for your ongoing support.
[1:14:21] Speaker 3: We'll catch you all on Sunday. In the meantime, stay solid.

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.