# The Sherrone Moore Saga & How Kyle Whittingham Ended Up at Michigan

An episode of [The Solid Verbal College Football Show](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/270037732), 3 Feb 2026, 1 h 17 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/21437ee1-47d9-4b16-8696-b30d011a2c26/2b2f0b67-8639-4c7d-80de-b3e501596897/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=51c7e0eb-425c-4d93-b5a8-b30d011a2c46

The year ended with an absolute whirlwind for Michigan and Utah football. First, the Wolverines fired Sherrone Moore for an inappropriate relationship with a staffer. Within the next 48 hours, he was arrested and arraigned at a local courthouse, marking an unexpected twist as the story took a dark turn. Just two weeks later, the longtime coach of Utah, Kyle Whittingham, was introduced as Michigan's next head coach after succession plans led to an uneasy exit from Salt Lake City. In this episode, we talk with Dan Wetzel from ESPN and Sean O'Connell from ESPN 700 to go inside the ropes and understand what happened during a wild two weeks in December, what it was like to track the Moore news, how Whittingham ended up in Ann Arbor, and more. Timecodes: 0:00 - Intro 6:03 - Dan Wetzel on Sherrone Moore & Michigan Football 41:01 - Sean O'Connell on Kyle Whittinham & Utah Football Support the show!: https://www.patreon.com/solidverbal See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal.
[0:04] Speaker 2: Holleh for me.
[0:06] Speaker 1: I'm a man, I'm forty.
[0:08] Speaker 3: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to
[0:10] Speaker 3: be happy.
[0:10] Speaker 2: You want to be happy for a day?
[0:12] Speaker 3: Edo State?
[0:13] Speaker 1: Is that?
[0:13] Speaker 4: Whoo whoom?
[0:14] Speaker 1: And Dan and Tie.
[0:18] Speaker 4: Dan Rubinstein, welcome back, my good friend. We've got a
[0:22] Speaker 4: bit of a special edition on today's podcast episode that
[0:27] Speaker 4: I am very excited about.
[0:28] Speaker 3: How are you. I'm good, I'm very good.
[0:30] Speaker 5: I'm very excited for this specific concept because this is
[0:33] Speaker 5: one of the weirder turn of events that hit number
[0:37] Speaker 5: of schools this this sort of coaching carousel season. So
[0:42] Speaker 5: pumped about this episode. And you know, it's a weird
[0:46] Speaker 5: time of the college football calendar because technically, I think
[0:48] Speaker 5: this week is officially the regular signing day, even though
[0:52] Speaker 5: the regular signing day happened in December. As far as
[0:56] Speaker 5: like what the reality of college football is in twenty
[0:59] Speaker 5: twenty six, you know, this is what pitchers and catchers
[1:02] Speaker 5: reporting season, not really college football spring practice season. No,
[1:06] Speaker 5: or you know, I'm sure there'll be more coaching movement
[1:09] Speaker 5: after this signing day. You know, Illinois's defensive coordinator I
[1:13] Speaker 5: think was hired by Notre Dame to be their new
[1:14] Speaker 5: DB's coach. So there's going to be stuff like that.
[1:17] Speaker 5: But this is when I I think we at least
[1:20] Speaker 5: start reflecting on the sort of flurry of news of
[1:23] Speaker 5: the past couple of months and figure out how it
[1:26] Speaker 5: happened and what it means moving forward. So I don't know, secretly,
[1:29] Speaker 5: this is a very fun time for me.
[1:31] Speaker 4: Yeah, after the postseason, it's post mortem season. Yeah sure,
[1:35] Speaker 4: which is kind of what we're doing here right now.
[1:38] Speaker 4: Thank you to one and all for stopping on by downloading, listening,
[1:41] Speaker 4: helping support the team. Of course, hit follow, hit subscribe
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[1:52] Speaker 4: You also get all these without the ads. Yeah, a
[1:55] Speaker 4: bunch of other fun stuff if you head on outa
[1:57] Speaker 4: verballers dot com and sign up as a certain fight
[1:59] Speaker 4: or premium verbar.
[2:00] Speaker 3: But that is not required. Of course.
[2:02] Speaker 4: On today's episode, we tease this out a little bit.
[2:05] Speaker 4: You and I are both very intrigued by the dynamics
[2:08] Speaker 4: surrounding Kyle Whittingham. Yes, how he ended up at Michigan,
[2:13] Speaker 4: why he stepped away from Utah, there's that whole.
[2:17] Speaker 3: Side of it. In addition, there is the added.
[2:19] Speaker 4: Layer of what went down at Michigan, not really short
[2:23] Speaker 4: on controversy there that was sort of the story of
[2:26] Speaker 4: the early to middle part of December, especially layered on
[2:30] Speaker 4: top of what was already a very very active coaching carousel.
[2:34] Speaker 4: So what we're doing today is covering that from both sides. First,
[2:39] Speaker 4: we're gonna have Dan Wetzel, our friend Dan Wetzel, we
[2:41] Speaker 4: haven't had on him forever, right from ESPN, to talk
[2:45] Speaker 4: through what transpired, what it was like, to cover the
[2:49] Speaker 4: whole Sharon More angle of him being dismissed from Michigan
[2:53] Speaker 4: and everything that ensued thereafter. And then after we talked
[2:57] Speaker 4: to Dan, we're gonna bring on Sean O'Connell from ESPN's
[3:00] Speaker 4: A one hundred, The Home of the Utes, to talk
[3:02] Speaker 4: through what exactly were the circumstances that led to Kyle
[3:06] Speaker 4: Whittingham walking away from the job at Utah and walking
[3:10] Speaker 4: into the opening with the Michigan Wolverines. A fascinating story
[3:14] Speaker 4: to cover from a bunch of different angles. This is
[3:17] Speaker 4: the time of year where we get to cover it
[3:19] Speaker 4: from both so interested to find out what both men
[3:22] Speaker 4: have to say.
[3:23] Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, the term I would use would be unexpected
[3:26] Speaker 5: on both sides of this, right, the unexpected stepping down
[3:29] Speaker 5: of Kyle Whittingham and the unexpected circumstances of everything that
[3:33] Speaker 5: went down with Sharon Moore at Michigan, and those two
[3:36] Speaker 5: stories sort of coming together into one. And I was
[3:39] Speaker 5: trying to think about this going into the show, where
[3:42] Speaker 5: we would have a longtime head coach who had become
[3:45] Speaker 5: synonymous with the program in the way that Kyle Whittingham
[3:48] Speaker 5: was with Utah leaving after a ton of time and
[3:52] Speaker 5: immediately or leaving for a new job. The one I
[3:56] Speaker 5: came up with was Mike Riley at Oregon State, where
[3:58] Speaker 5: you're just like, oh, he's gonna be there forever, right,
[4:00] Speaker 5: he's mister Oregon State and leaves for the Nebraska job.
[4:03] Speaker 5: It doesn't work out, but obviously there was something about
[4:06] Speaker 5: leaving in that Nebraska job specifically that was like, oh,
[4:09] Speaker 5: that would be an interesting fit. And obviously that had
[4:12] Speaker 5: the same sort of conversational circumstance of like, oh, okay,
[4:17] Speaker 5: the previous guy in Bo Polino, Bo Polino, Bo Polini
[4:22] Speaker 5: Bo Polino is like the uh, the the Baseball Stars
[4:26] Speaker 5: version where they just invent the names, where bo Polini
[4:29] Speaker 5: is just like running hot right and has the temper
[4:32] Speaker 5: and you know, is rubbing people the wrong way. Behind
[4:35] Speaker 5: the scenes, you're like, let's hire the exact opposite. And
[4:37] Speaker 5: I guess you kind of get a little bit of
[4:39] Speaker 5: that here where I don't think Michigan was out to
[4:43] Speaker 5: find the coach with the squeakiest, cleanest reputation, but they
[4:48] Speaker 5: seem to have. And so yeah, this is it's a
[4:51] Speaker 5: unique circumstance in the sport of mister whatever, you know,
[4:56] Speaker 5: mister whoever actually leaving out of you know, seem nowhere
[5:00] Speaker 5: and taking another high profile job. Like Brian Kelly wasn't
[5:04] Speaker 5: mister Notre Dame. He was sort of well traveled and
[5:07] Speaker 5: everything like that. When he took LSU, Lincoln Riley was
[5:09] Speaker 5: not mister Oklahoma. He had been other places and played
[5:12] Speaker 5: other plays like So, I don't know, this one's especially
[5:15] Speaker 5: fascinating to me.
[5:16] Speaker 4: And I'm interested from a different angle, which, as I
[5:19] Speaker 4: said to you before we hit go here, there's a
[5:22] Speaker 4: little bit of Jay Leno Conan O'Brien totally with the
[5:25] Speaker 4: way that Whittingham walked away from or just the way
[5:29] Speaker 4: that his reign as Utah coach ended because it was
[5:33] Speaker 4: rumored that this guy's gonna walk away. There had been
[5:37] Speaker 4: plans drawn up to make the move to Morgan Scalley.
[5:40] Speaker 4: By all accounts, sounds like maybe there was a change
[5:42] Speaker 4: of heart on behalf of Whittingham, but they had already
[5:46] Speaker 4: been too far down the path. That is what gave
[5:49] Speaker 4: him a license to go and take another job. Meanwhile,
[5:52] Speaker 4: they make the move to uh Morgan Scalley.
[5:55] Speaker 3: So fascinating stuff.
[5:56] Speaker 4: We've got two guys on who can help us dissect
[5:59] Speaker 4: all of it, Excited to find out what we weren't
[6:02] Speaker 4: definitely all right. So our guest today was last on
[6:06] Speaker 4: this show. I went back and checked June the first,
[6:10] Speaker 4: twenty sixteen talking about the dismissal of Art Briles from
[6:16] Speaker 4: Baylor back in the day. So it's been a minute,
[6:19] Speaker 4: Dan Wetzel, I promise we are not trying to type
[6:21] Speaker 4: cast you here as the character who comes on to
[6:24] Speaker 4: talk controversial coaches.
[6:26] Speaker 3: But nonetheless here we are.
[6:28] Speaker 1: Have done a horrible job. I mean I get banished
[6:31] Speaker 1: longer than Art Brills.
[6:33] Speaker 3: I think that's true.
[6:34] Speaker 5: He's made comebacks to the sport briefly more often then
[6:37] Speaker 5: you've made comebacks to the show, right.
[6:39] Speaker 1: I got suspended from this pod for ten years, almost
[6:43] Speaker 1: show cause that I have a show cause what happened.
[6:47] Speaker 3: We are thrilled to have you back.
[6:48] Speaker 4: You are now, of course with ESPNESPN dot com.
[6:52] Speaker 3: Welcome back. How's everything?
[6:54] Speaker 2: How you been?
[6:55] Speaker 1: Everything's great, everything's great. Ready for the winter to warm up?
[7:00] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[7:00] Speaker 1: Other than that, everything's great.
[7:02] Speaker 4: I am curious from your perspective because we brought you
[7:04] Speaker 4: on to talk about the Michigan thing, the Harona thing,
[7:10] Speaker 4: the topic situation. I am just curious as a reporter
[7:15] Speaker 4: because you were doing some of I thought the most
[7:18] Speaker 4: important reporting on the story. You were front stage center
[7:22] Speaker 4: talking about everything that was going on in the moment.
[7:24] Speaker 4: People were hanging on every word that you posted out
[7:27] Speaker 4: on social media or ESPN dot com or anywhere. What
[7:31] Speaker 4: is that pressure like as a reporter knowing that whatever
[7:35] Speaker 4: you say about this story is inevitably going to kick
[7:38] Speaker 4: off some kind of firestorm.
[7:41] Speaker 1: So I don't I don't feel it that way. It
[7:43] Speaker 1: was more that when you have a story, so you know,
[7:49] Speaker 1: if you look back on it now, we had gotta
[7:53] Speaker 1: get fired.
[7:54] Speaker 2: You had.
[7:57] Speaker 1: The extracurricular activities. I don't know, you had an affair,
[8:03] Speaker 1: You had a labor situation, So we're already right there,
[8:06] Speaker 1: we're talking about Schryan Moore has a family, a wife,
[8:10] Speaker 1: three people, So anything you say there you have to
[8:14] Speaker 1: be fair in this job. You want to be correct,
[8:17] Speaker 1: but you also want to be fair. And so you
[8:20] Speaker 1: have all of those dynamics. You have a staff member
[8:23] Speaker 1: and their family. We don't know the whole extent of
[8:26] Speaker 1: exactly how this relationship worked, so that could be a
[8:32] Speaker 1: victim itself. So you have all of that. Then you
[8:36] Speaker 1: had what was a either potential when we got into
[8:41] Speaker 1: the legal stuff. So all this is happening very quickly.
[8:44] Speaker 1: You had this is a stock you know, he's charged
[8:47] Speaker 1: with stalking with home invasion, right, there's talk there's a
[8:52] Speaker 1: knife involved and it turns out to be a butter knife,
[8:55] Speaker 1: but still like there's a terrorist kind of thing. Then
[8:58] Speaker 1: there's potential harming, self harm, mental health, Like there are
[9:03] Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that even if you report what
[9:07] Speaker 1: you're hearing or the facts, and you're trying to determine
[9:12] Speaker 1: as best you can the facts that somebody else is
[9:16] Speaker 1: concluding is a fact, not just what someone said they heard.
[9:20] Speaker 1: But is there a police document, is there a you know,
[9:26] Speaker 1: a responding officer who is saying this or is it
[9:30] Speaker 1: like two officers later in the dynamics of all of
[9:35] Speaker 1: those things are so sensitive that that was the That
[9:38] Speaker 1: was the pressure with the story, because if you are
[9:41] Speaker 1: flippant with that, or you are wrong with that, or
[9:44] Speaker 1: you are ahead of that, there is widespread you know,
[9:51] Speaker 1: damn it, whatever it is, it's more than just charomor
[9:56] Speaker 1: got fired because the inven win of games, right or uh.
[10:00] Speaker 1: When you cover a coaching search like I think I
[10:02] Speaker 1: actually said this somewhere else, Like if you just sit
[10:04] Speaker 1: there and say, hey, Michigan is focused on as Pete
[10:08] Speaker 1: dam and I did later, you know, focused on hiring
[10:11] Speaker 1: Kyle whitting him right now. We want to make sure
[10:13] Speaker 1: we're right about that, and we were very careful about
[10:16] Speaker 1: that and it was correct. But if you're wrong, nobody's hurt.
[10:20] Speaker 1: Even Kyle whitting Hand is probably like yeah, cool man,
[10:24] Speaker 1: No one's no, one's adversely effective. But when you're in
[10:26] Speaker 1: all those other things and it's all happening quickly, there's
[10:31] Speaker 1: a lot and you can you can shape public perception
[10:35] Speaker 1: on things that are going to be very significant to
[10:37] Speaker 1: a lot of people, and so you just really wanted.
[10:39] Speaker 4: To be.
[10:42] Speaker 1: As accurate as possible and understanding that the people investigating
[10:46] Speaker 1: it wouldn't know all the issues. That's the other part,
[10:50] Speaker 1: like it's not what exactly happened, what didn't happen, you know,
[10:55] Speaker 1: So that's still getting that'll get hashed out in court.
[10:58] Speaker 1: So that that was the trickiest part.
[11:01] Speaker 5: How long was everything in the works if you are
[11:06] Speaker 5: to read various reporting and even just i'll call this
[11:10] Speaker 5: non reporting, right, there's conversations, there's anecdotes that this was
[11:13] Speaker 5: a known thing behind the scenes, and obviously there is
[11:18] Speaker 5: You have to meet a certain criteria to report it right.
[11:20] Speaker 5: You have to have the sources you have. Documentation is ideal.
[11:23] Speaker 5: But you cover national college football, Pete Theamill covers national
[11:28] Speaker 5: college football. You are not day to day Michigan football.
[11:32] Speaker 5: There are people who are day to day Michigan football.
[11:35] Speaker 5: They weren't the ones who broke this story. Why did
[11:38] Speaker 5: it come out how it did? This is obviously my
[11:41] Speaker 5: naivete talking. There wasn't a story in October. There wasn't
[11:46] Speaker 5: a story in September that he was under investigation, even
[11:48] Speaker 5: though it came out that he was being investigated by
[11:50] Speaker 5: his bosses. To what do you attribute the story breaking
[11:55] Speaker 5: like it did? Obviously you I think we're thorough about that,
[11:58] Speaker 5: the sensitive nature of the story. But I guess the
[12:01] Speaker 5: simple question is why was it you breaking this story?
[12:08] Speaker 1: Well, well we'll avoid that.
[12:10] Speaker 5: But well no, I'm saying, like I'm serious though, right
[12:14] Speaker 5: if this is a known thing, right, like you knew,
[12:16] Speaker 5: try to do the job.
[12:16] Speaker 1: It's a known thing. So all right, I mean I
[12:19] Speaker 1: think I know what you're asking. Yes, yeah, you hear rumors. Okay,
[12:27] Speaker 1: so you hear Sharon Moore is doing this or or
[12:30] Speaker 1: just let's just take it to somebody else. Right, there's
[12:32] Speaker 1: a coach Smith somewhere. Coach Smith's having an affair. Okay,
[12:37] Speaker 1: I'm not investigating whether somebody's having an affair, right, that's
[12:42] Speaker 1: like that. I don't I don't care. That's not my job.
[12:46] Speaker 1: That's not.
[12:48] Speaker 2: News.
[12:49] Speaker 1: If you will if the right, if the school wants
[12:53] Speaker 1: to have a problem with it, they may not, then
[12:56] Speaker 1: so be it. So then you would say, okay, it's
[13:00] Speaker 1: having an affair with a staff member, Well that would
[13:02] Speaker 1: be a fireable offense. So still not my job to
[13:08] Speaker 1: investigate whether like that's it is the school investigating. Okay,
[13:12] Speaker 1: Now we have an actionable thing that you could report,
[13:15] Speaker 1: right if you're running through this that said, if the
[13:20] Speaker 1: school investigates and determines there's nothing there, Now I didn't
[13:25] Speaker 1: I this is this was not a decision. This is
[13:28] Speaker 1: not germane to the Michigan case. I did not sit
[13:30] Speaker 1: there and make this determination. But let's say you hear
[13:33] Speaker 1: Coach Smith that at Old State U was under investigate.
[13:36] Speaker 1: They looked into it, but there were they determined there
[13:39] Speaker 1: was not an affair. Is it fair to anybody to
[13:41] Speaker 1: run that story? Like what the heck man? Like? You
[13:46] Speaker 1: can accuse anybody anything, right or there could be some rumor.
[13:50] Speaker 1: So nothing happened. So what happened with Michigan is, yeah,
[13:53] Speaker 1: they heard that there was something with the staff member
[13:55] Speaker 1: and they did an investigation. Both sides denied it. They
[13:58] Speaker 1: couldn't find it. They did a human reseat sources department
[14:00] Speaker 1: looked into it. So they did their job on that
[14:03] Speaker 1: came away with nothing. The reason the story broke, and
[14:07] Speaker 1: then later in November they hired an outside council, outside
[14:11] Speaker 1: firm to come in and take a look at the
[14:13] Speaker 1: whole situation again because the rumors are going and going.
[14:17] Speaker 1: The reason the story broke was because the staff member
[14:21] Speaker 1: involved a broke off the relationship on Monday, and then
[14:26] Speaker 1: Sharon Moore continued to contact her allegedly, and then she
[14:31] Speaker 1: went to the university I think on I think it
[14:34] Speaker 1: was a Wednesday, and said, I, we did have an affair,
[14:39] Speaker 1: we did have this situation whatever, however you want to
[14:41] Speaker 1: determine it. And the school immediately fired him. So now
[14:44] Speaker 1: you have an actionable thing to report on. So that's
[14:48] Speaker 1: kind of just journalistically where you're at, you can't just
[14:52] Speaker 1: you can I'm just not going to be like, hey,
[14:55] Speaker 1: so and so was cheating on his wife of course, right,
[15:00] Speaker 1: And when you're talking about relationships again, you have what
[15:06] Speaker 1: what is actually happening?
[15:08] Speaker 2: Right?
[15:09] Speaker 1: If you remember the Mike Price situation at Alabama and
[15:12] Speaker 1: when Mike Price.
[15:13] Speaker 3: Is yeah, hotel room, yeah, right.
[15:15] Speaker 1: So the report was that he had gone upstairs I
[15:18] Speaker 1: think and had a you know, relation or something. And
[15:21] Speaker 1: I don't remember the whole thing with with this one.
[15:24] Speaker 1: What they turned out they didn't And again like unless
[15:27] Speaker 1: you got video, and that would be quite creepy and
[15:29] Speaker 1: I don't want that. How the hell do you know
[15:32] Speaker 1: what someone actually did? Right? Like I don't know. So
[15:35] Speaker 1: there's a lot of like, there's just a lot on that.
[15:38] Speaker 1: But yeah, a lot of people knew or heard, and
[15:41] Speaker 1: then once these stories break, everyone's like everybody knows everything. Ah,
[15:46] Speaker 1: I heard that, I knew all about that. It's like,
[15:48] Speaker 1: did you.
[15:49] Speaker 5: What was the sense of Sharon More? I think internally, right,
[15:53] Speaker 5: the stories have come out after the fact about erratic
[15:57] Speaker 5: behavior reportedly and you know, texting or dming and just
[16:05] Speaker 5: behavior that wasn't consistent with a lot of people's experience
[16:09] Speaker 5: with other head coaches. Perhaps was that something that was
[16:13] Speaker 5: known that like, he's behaving a little bit differently as
[16:16] Speaker 5: it relates to the expectations of a head coach, and
[16:19] Speaker 5: you're just like, well, you know, some people are just
[16:20] Speaker 5: different or did that sort of throw alarm bells off
[16:24] Speaker 5: for a lot of people internally for a while leading up?
[16:27] Speaker 1: You know, I don't know how fully to characterize that.
[16:30] Speaker 1: I think that when you first hear that, you know,
[16:34] Speaker 1: you hear some rumor that somebody you know is is
[16:38] Speaker 1: doing that. It could be anything, right, so and So's
[16:41] Speaker 1: drinking a lot, so and So's playing a ton of
[16:43] Speaker 1: golf some so and so. From my perspective, you sit
[16:49] Speaker 1: there and say, Okay, this is probably going to end
[16:52] Speaker 1: in a firing, just just from experience. And that's the
[16:59] Speaker 1: same with a player, right or anything you do. So
[17:03] Speaker 1: I think there was an expectation that sometimes it works
[17:07] Speaker 1: some of the guys, you know, but generally speaking, if
[17:09] Speaker 1: you're gonna try to run the University Michigan football program
[17:13] Speaker 1: or any program like that, you better be dialed in
[17:15] Speaker 1: on that job hardcore. So I don't I don't know
[17:20] Speaker 1: all of the misgivings that they might have had on
[17:23] Speaker 1: the staff, some of them. You know, there's there's a
[17:28] Speaker 1: lot of ways to get this thing done. Jim Harball
[17:30] Speaker 1: is a weird guy, right, totally. So you know he
[17:33] Speaker 1: would sit there and go play with his chickens in
[17:35] Speaker 1: his backyard and you'd say, okay, well that's not what
[17:41] Speaker 1: Nick Saban does, right, But at the same time he
[17:44] Speaker 1: would find some instead. It worked for Jim Harball. So
[17:48] Speaker 1: you don't really know how how these guys do stuff.
[17:51] Speaker 1: Or you know, everyone was out for Hugh Freezer playing
[17:55] Speaker 1: too much golf, right, or at least recording his golf scores.
[17:59] Speaker 1: That was really thing. It was the h Freeze was
[18:02] Speaker 1: incredibly honest golfer.
[18:03] Speaker 3: Yeah, you can find disciplines, yeah.
[18:06] Speaker 1: Yes, he because you do not want sandbaggers who don't
[18:09] Speaker 1: report their scores if you were, if you were a
[18:11] Speaker 1: golfer and you gamble at golf, which you know, so
[18:14] Speaker 1: we give you know, we've basted few plenty of times
[18:16] Speaker 1: for maybe less reputable behavior. Let's give him some credit
[18:20] Speaker 1: here for his golf ethics. So I think he kind
[18:25] Speaker 1: of sit there. But you know, you'll hear complaints about coaches.
[18:29] Speaker 1: I don't you know, is it the head coach or
[18:31] Speaker 1: is an assistant coach he's mad? I don't know, And
[18:34] Speaker 1: I'm not as dialed in on what everybody was complaining
[18:37] Speaker 1: about or saying, but clearly Sharon wasn't focused enough on it.
[18:41] Speaker 1: You know that said they did win nine games.
[18:43] Speaker 3: They didn't.
[18:44] Speaker 1: So he might be the greatest coach of all time
[18:46] Speaker 1: if he was doing all the stuff that's alleged to
[18:48] Speaker 1: him and he still managed to win nine games, Like,
[18:50] Speaker 1: what's everyone else's excuse?
[18:52] Speaker 3: That's a good point.
[18:54] Speaker 5: I'm also curious about what what was happening behind the
[18:57] Speaker 5: scenes with his bosses or you know, quote unquote says,
[19:00] Speaker 5: you know, if you're a successful head coach, you're sort
[19:02] Speaker 5: of in charge, you know. Ward Manual has come under
[19:05] Speaker 5: fire for a lot of how he's handled the athletic
[19:07] Speaker 5: department and the football program and his alleged relationship or
[19:11] Speaker 5: lack thereof with Jim Harbaugh and the president and it's
[19:14] Speaker 5: an interim president. Like, what was the the stability or
[19:21] Speaker 5: lack thereof within the athletic department as this is happening,
[19:26] Speaker 5: And how do you believe that affected things at the end,
[19:29] Speaker 5: if at all.
[19:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, I it's an interesting thing and it's going to
[19:36] Speaker 1: play out. The school, you know, commissioned an external study
[19:43] Speaker 1: into the culture of the athletic department or whatever failures
[19:47] Speaker 1: there were or weren't, and I guess there'll be a
[19:51] Speaker 1: public report on that. Like I can you know, I
[19:55] Speaker 1: can hear. I can hear both sides of that. I mean,
[19:58] Speaker 1: you go to Michigan. You think about Michigan. Uh, it
[20:00] Speaker 1: has been a slew of of headlines, negative headlines, scandals,
[20:06] Speaker 1: criminal behavior. You have the you know, the offensive coordinator before,
[20:13] Speaker 1: Charon matt Weiss. You know he's he's uh facing federal
[20:17] Speaker 1: charges of a computer hacking, uh to to to take pictures,
[20:22] Speaker 1: to steal pictures and videos of other students or student
[20:25] Speaker 1: athletes around the country. Right, So he's got a serious charge.
[20:28] Speaker 1: You have the Sharon More case. Uh, there's obviously the
[20:31] Speaker 1: advanced scouting and Connor Stallion's a little different. There are
[20:34] Speaker 1: other issues. A number of players, a number of coaches
[20:37] Speaker 1: got DUIs, and you know, just different stuff that hit
[20:44] Speaker 1: and throughout the department. And so you say, well, this
[20:47] Speaker 1: this is the leadership. It's loose. At the same time,
[20:50] Speaker 1: is it really like how many times if you're if
[20:54] Speaker 1: you're on the ward manual camp, if I'm more if
[20:59] Speaker 1: I'm gonna pay, if I'm gonna prosecution, to say, look
[21:01] Speaker 1: at all this stuff, what do we do? And you're
[21:02] Speaker 1: in charge, you got to your it's your fault. If
[21:05] Speaker 1: I'm a ward manual defense attorney, I'm saying, look, how
[21:07] Speaker 1: many times do I have to tell a coach don't
[21:10] Speaker 1: get a DUI? Like, what the heck? This is this?
[21:13] Speaker 1: These are grown, This is not his job to be
[21:16] Speaker 1: monitoring this. Don't don't become a don't get federally indicted
[21:22] Speaker 1: for hacking into other like this this stuff we really
[21:24] Speaker 1: had to mention, don't have a relationship in appropriate relationship
[21:28] Speaker 1: with a staff member. I'm sure they went over that.
[21:31] Speaker 1: You have to remind them every day. So like at
[21:33] Speaker 1: what point is their personal responsibility here of of these
[21:36] Speaker 1: people and what point is it just a coincidence there's
[21:41] Speaker 1: this many incidents or is it not a coincidence? And
[21:44] Speaker 1: I guess that's what you find out. I could take
[21:46] Speaker 1: either argument, and someone could probably persuade me. But I
[21:49] Speaker 1: do think there is the idea that you just sit
[21:51] Speaker 1: there and say it's all Ward Manual's fault.
[21:55] Speaker 2: Nobody is.
[21:55] Speaker 1: Nobody is in favor of any of these things. Uh,
[21:59] Speaker 1: the one that made you would be most inclined to
[22:02] Speaker 1: say what's going on is the advanced scouting because that's
[22:05] Speaker 1: more football oriented and it was unlikely to be criminal.
[22:10] Speaker 1: But like, you're not going to convince me that there's
[22:12] Speaker 1: an there's an ad out there going Hey, your offensive
[22:14] Speaker 1: coordinator seems to be committing, you know, allegedly committing federal,
[22:21] Speaker 1: federal crimes. And he's like, yeah, but you know, we
[22:23] Speaker 1: scored fifty six last week against Purdue. We're cool. I
[22:26] Speaker 1: just don't think that stuff happens there in the world anymore.
[22:31] Speaker 3: Dan. I think what I'm struck most by with the story.
[22:34] Speaker 4: Clearly there's a lot going on here, but the speed,
[22:38] Speaker 4: the speed with which everything came together. He was fired
[22:41] Speaker 4: on December the tenth. A couple hours later, he allegedly
[22:46] Speaker 4: goes to the home of the aforementioned staffer. Two days later,
[22:50] Speaker 4: he's in course, immediately, yeah, almost immediately right. Two days later,
[22:54] Speaker 4: arraigned for felony third degree home invasion, two misdemeanors. He
[23:00] Speaker 4: pleads not guilty. He has pleaded not guilty. He's going
[23:03] Speaker 4: to be back in court on March the nineteenth. Will
[23:05] Speaker 4: determine at that point whether or not they go forward
[23:08] Speaker 4: and proceed to trial. But within like a very compact
[23:12] Speaker 4: sliver of time, Dan, everything came together. You were on there,
[23:15] Speaker 4: you're doing the reporting. What can you like take us
[23:18] Speaker 4: inside your head. I'm really just like fascinated by this
[23:21] Speaker 4: angle of you over there, trying to stay on top
[23:24] Speaker 4: of all of this. I'm sure phones ringing off the hook,
[23:27] Speaker 4: just trying to get a sense for what is going on.
[23:29] Speaker 4: How are you making heads or tails of what's happening
[23:31] Speaker 4: in real time?
[23:34] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's so the firing was like that.
[23:38] Speaker 1: That happens, right, Tons of guys get fired, and sometimes
[23:42] Speaker 1: it's for something beyond wins and losses. And so when
[23:46] Speaker 1: you when the firing came, it was like Okay, the
[23:49] Speaker 1: next step is going to be exactly what this relationship entail.
[23:53] Speaker 1: And then almost immediately it's the police detained him and
[23:58] Speaker 1: you're like, oh, boy, like this has changed dour onto
[24:02] Speaker 1: that doesn't happen. And that was the part that I
[24:05] Speaker 1: think really took the story to a whole other level
[24:10] Speaker 1: because now it's now there's a mystery. Did he go
[24:12] Speaker 1: over there to what did why did he go to
[24:14] Speaker 1: this house? Did he was he going to, you know,
[24:17] Speaker 1: harm himself? What was going on? Is he having a breakdown?
[24:20] Speaker 1: Then it just blew up. It became what I would
[24:23] Speaker 1: say is like that becomes ABC news story. Right, it's
[24:26] Speaker 1: everybody's talking about this, and what is good this is?
[24:28] Speaker 1: This is wild opposed to a fairly cliched, if unfortunate
[24:33] Speaker 1: situation of head coach has inappropriate relationship with the staff member.
[24:39] Speaker 1: Like we've seen this act before, we hadn't seen this
[24:41] Speaker 1: one though because of the legal stuff. The speed was unbelievable.
[24:46] Speaker 1: And I was at the the arraignment that Friday, and
[24:53] Speaker 1: you're maybe three four miles from schem Becker Hall and
[24:57] Speaker 1: the Big House, and earlier the week Schilmore had a
[25:03] Speaker 1: press conference to like introduce their new special team coordinator
[25:06] Speaker 1: and talk about the bowl game and signing day had
[25:09] Speaker 1: come and gone, and I mean, he is you know,
[25:14] Speaker 1: he's the Michigan football coach. He's got a big, big job,
[25:17] Speaker 1: and now he's sitting in those Stark jailhouse whites on
[25:21] Speaker 1: the on the little camera. You know. I think that
[25:23] Speaker 1: image was just you know, you could just talk about
[25:27] Speaker 1: fall from grace. It just was like, just like, holy cow,
[25:31] Speaker 1: this guy is this is this is an unbelievable drop
[25:38] Speaker 1: that it could happen. That the idea that you could
[25:40] Speaker 1: open the day as the Michigan football coach and end
[25:43] Speaker 1: the day in jail alone. But just then seeing the
[25:47] Speaker 1: visual of that Friday was was amazing. So yeah, it's
[25:52] Speaker 1: it's one of the one of the more stunning stories
[25:56] Speaker 1: that that happened, just just and like you said, the
[26:00] Speaker 1: and then you know, it's Christmas night, we're hearing okay,
[26:03] Speaker 1: it's gonna be witting him. And we report that the
[26:07] Speaker 1: next morning, and almost immediately people were so happy it's
[26:12] Speaker 1: winning him. It's like I was back out at the
[26:16] Speaker 1: evidentiary hearing for I don't know what they call it.
[26:21] Speaker 1: It's not evident your hearing. It's a Probable Cause conference
[26:24] Speaker 1: where they didn't really do it a lot. But it's
[26:27] Speaker 1: mid January now and Sharon Moore is in a suit
[26:29] Speaker 1: and he's got his family there and all that, but
[26:31] Speaker 1: it's almost like nobody cares. They care, but the world
[26:35] Speaker 1: has moved on. Michigan fans like, great, we got a
[26:38] Speaker 1: better coach. The players didn't all bail because I don't
[26:41] Speaker 1: really think he had that. You didn't see a lot
[26:43] Speaker 1: of guys like I only went to Michigan to play
[26:45] Speaker 1: for Sharon Moore. So the players stayed, they got a
[26:48] Speaker 1: better coach. Michigan's just moved on. They're like, we don't
[26:51] Speaker 1: care about this guy anymore. And so that was like
[26:53] Speaker 1: one month later, and it was pretty pretty stunning that too,
[26:56] Speaker 1: that how quickly you just I don't care how what
[26:59] Speaker 1: you are her Bill Parcells saying once when you get fired,
[27:02] Speaker 1: you think you're the biggest thing in the world NFL
[27:05] Speaker 1: head coach, and then you realize you're just a pebble
[27:06] Speaker 1: on the sand. Nobody cares. Right you get fired, two
[27:09] Speaker 1: months later, you're ohe that guy, And so Charroll Moore
[27:12] Speaker 1: is no Bill Parcells. So is even more.
[27:14] Speaker 4: So the other thing that I'm struck by, especially now
[27:18] Speaker 4: given the news that Kyle Whittingham is going to be
[27:20] Speaker 4: the next guy in charge. Obviously a very different personality
[27:25] Speaker 4: to what degree has Michigan and the athletic department and
[27:28] Speaker 4: the institution as a whole moved on from this Because
[27:31] Speaker 4: from AFAR, and you're obviously a lot more plugged into
[27:34] Speaker 4: this than we are. From AFAR, it just feels like, up,
[27:37] Speaker 4: we turn the page. Kyle Whittingham's the guy. He's going
[27:40] Speaker 4: to instill a different kind of culture. He was able
[27:42] Speaker 4: to retain the likes of Bryce Underwood.
[27:45] Speaker 3: You know, we're all.
[27:45] Speaker 4: Looking forward to twenty twenty six. I understand you don't
[27:48] Speaker 4: want to dwell on the controversial things of the past,
[27:51] Speaker 4: but again, from AFAR, it just feels like it was
[27:54] Speaker 4: just a very quick leap to the next thing. And
[27:57] Speaker 4: we just hear about Sharon Moore and what went down
[28:00] Speaker 4: every now and again in headlines.
[28:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think I don't cover University of Michigan,
[28:06] Speaker 1: so I'm not talking to everybody in that department. But yeah,
[28:10] Speaker 1: it feels exactly like that. It's like, Okay, we're done,
[28:13] Speaker 1: next guy, and you know, and this is the other
[28:16] Speaker 1: part for the Ward Manual, which complicates the ward manual situation.
[28:21] Speaker 1: If you want, if you want to sit there and
[28:22] Speaker 1: say we're gonna blame me for all these scandals, you say, well,
[28:26] Speaker 1: I just hired Kyle Whittingham, and not only did to
[28:28] Speaker 1: hire a coach that can win, but it's like a
[28:31] Speaker 1: complete just scrubbing of the place, right, I mean, you
[28:34] Speaker 1: could not get a guy who's ethics and his personal life.
[28:38] Speaker 1: I mean, like I learned long ago not to swear
[28:41] Speaker 1: by anybody, But if I'm covering a story like this
[28:45] Speaker 1: involving Kyle Whittingham, I'm really stunned. Okay, like this is
[28:50] Speaker 1: this guy a has this incredible track record, but like
[28:54] Speaker 1: the adults, Okay, well I got an adult. We just
[28:56] Speaker 1: solved all of that. All that's done. Oh and I've
[28:59] Speaker 1: got the may and he's got the number three team,
[29:01] Speaker 1: and I got the number one hockey team, and I
[29:03] Speaker 1: got the like the whole department. Now, once you bring
[29:06] Speaker 1: winning him in and presuming that he will see how
[29:09] Speaker 1: they do on the field, but I expect success at
[29:13] Speaker 1: a good level. Like you say, well, what athletic department
[29:15] Speaker 1: isn't doing better? Like what what athletic department would you
[29:19] Speaker 1: switch with? You could win multiple nations. You could win
[29:22] Speaker 1: the three biggest sports in Michigan or football, football mostly,
[29:26] Speaker 1: but then basketball and hockey are significant there. This isn't
[29:29] Speaker 1: a football school only they care about their basketball team
[29:33] Speaker 1: and they care about their hockey team. You win two
[29:35] Speaker 1: national titles this year. So it's such an interesting thing
[29:38] Speaker 1: where I think the whatever shame there was, if there
[29:42] Speaker 1: was one, or fans being like, I can't believe that happened,
[29:47] Speaker 1: the Wittingham hire just scrubbed that away, and everyone's just like,
[29:52] Speaker 1: I don't care about Sharon Moore. We got a better coach.
[29:54] Speaker 1: We didn't really believe in the guy. I mean, he
[29:57] Speaker 1: he was fortunate to get the position. You know. I
[30:03] Speaker 1: don't think anybody sat there and said, oh, this is
[30:04] Speaker 1: the guy we got to hire. He he's a coach
[30:07] Speaker 1: at that level, when you get one of these opportunities,
[30:10] Speaker 1: as Harbaugh put it once, uh, you know you're on
[30:14] Speaker 1: third base. You know you need to you need to
[30:19] Speaker 1: make sure you were capable of hitting the triple. And
[30:22] Speaker 1: I don't think he had convinced anybody that he was
[30:24] Speaker 1: the guy to do that.
[30:26] Speaker 5: I think everything what you're saying is correct. The The
[30:29] Speaker 5: interesting thing to me is two weeks passed between when
[30:33] Speaker 5: Sharon Moore was relieved of his duties and Kyle Whittingham
[30:36] Speaker 5: was reportedly hired. What do you remember about those two weeks?
[30:40] Speaker 5: There was a lot of like, hey, if Kaylin de
[30:42] Speaker 5: Borr loses, maybe this and then you know, Kenny Dillingham
[30:46] Speaker 5: conversations have happened, and Jeff Brohm is a name that's
[30:49] Speaker 5: being like what do you remember? Because I think what
[30:51] Speaker 5: you're saying about, like the ceiling of Michigan sports, especially
[30:55] Speaker 5: right now recent National Championship hockey, basketball, et cetera, is
[31:00] Speaker 5: obviously going to be attractive to a ton of people.
[31:02] Speaker 5: This job for two weeks was open when any number
[31:07] Speaker 5: of huge names hypothetically could have been swayed. They're like,
[31:11] Speaker 5: you're gonna be the next great guy at ann Arbor.
[31:12] Speaker 5: Look at the talent we have, you know, this quarterback
[31:14] Speaker 5: of the future, and the athletic department has a ton
[31:16] Speaker 5: of what do you remember about those two weeks? And
[31:19] Speaker 5: why wasn't every coach on the first plane to ann Arbor?
[31:23] Speaker 1: Well, the timing was bad, and I remember there was
[31:27] Speaker 1: like there was a bit of like, oh, Michigan knew
[31:34] Speaker 1: and then they they finally fired him. After signing day
[31:39] Speaker 1: or something like. They they could have done this earlier,
[31:42] Speaker 1: but they were They were timing it. And you know,
[31:46] Speaker 1: I remember saying to people like, I am incredibly cynical
[31:49] Speaker 1: a person, uh like this is my job is to
[31:52] Speaker 1: be suspicious of every single thing. Like that doesn't make
[31:55] Speaker 1: any sense. They let every candidate that they could have
[31:58] Speaker 1: got signed somewhere up, so they were down. The problem
[32:02] Speaker 1: with the job was they either needed to get someone
[32:05] Speaker 1: who had just jumped to a job to to like
[32:10] Speaker 1: you know, pull like a tampering like the Dabo would
[32:13] Speaker 1: have flipped out right like you job like a week, but.
[32:16] Speaker 3: Now you come here like a temple.
[32:19] Speaker 1: You needed something like that, or you needed somebody who
[32:23] Speaker 1: had just re upped because they hadn't gotten one of
[32:26] Speaker 1: those jobs or took themselves off the market. So the
[32:29] Speaker 1: market was small, and Kaylen de bor was absolutely I
[32:37] Speaker 1: think if Dale and de Boor had lost the Oklahoma game,
[32:41] Speaker 1: I don't know how it would have played out, but
[32:43] Speaker 1: it certainly would not have Like there that was not
[32:46] Speaker 1: just a no way, right, there's not just some some
[32:51] Speaker 1: empty rumor. They would have been a real possibility. Kaylin
[32:54] Speaker 1: de Boor is the head coach at Michigan. But that
[32:57] Speaker 1: was that That's why that game was so weird. If
[33:01] Speaker 1: you remember, like Oklahoma was killing him early, right, so
[33:05] Speaker 1: then yeah, yeah, Michigan fans were like, okay, we want
[33:09] Speaker 1: to lose tonight, so we get kill on to board.
[33:11] Speaker 1: They'd heard all then they're getting killed and like, wait,
[33:14] Speaker 1: do we want these guys?
[33:15] Speaker 3: This is terrible and he's getting a raise after that game. Yeah.
[33:19] Speaker 1: Then he goes and wins the game and then they're like, oh,
[33:22] Speaker 1: he is a good coach. But now we can't get
[33:24] Speaker 1: like it was a mess. So then there was uh,
[33:26] Speaker 1: you know, do we wait? Dillingham was involved, he was
[33:30] Speaker 1: not offered the job, as my understanding, other coaches were
[33:34] Speaker 1: kind of involved. There was there was also NFL potential interest.
[33:39] Speaker 1: How later can you wait?
[33:43] Speaker 2: You know?
[33:43] Speaker 1: I always thought the fun it ended up happening out,
[33:45] Speaker 1: think it ever would have occurred. But my my favorite
[33:48] Speaker 1: one was John Harbaugh. Somehow take right, we just get
[33:53] Speaker 1: a new Harbaugh? Like who worked the last guy? This
[33:55] Speaker 1: was this one seems more better at justin than the
[33:58] Speaker 1: other one, So let's take him.
[33:59] Speaker 3: Who was available if they had given was.
[34:01] Speaker 1: Technically available for a minute there it turned out, but
[34:05] Speaker 1: you were hearing stuff like that, what about Mike Tomblin,
[34:08] Speaker 1: Like what if you want to go to like Jesse
[34:11] Speaker 1: Mintor certainly was a possibility. They were all sorts of
[34:13] Speaker 1: like anything was possible. This is a it's a very
[34:16] Speaker 1: very good uh job, you know, it's a good job
[34:19] Speaker 1: af So there was all of that, but then it
[34:22] Speaker 1: was but there was also limited and then you had
[34:24] Speaker 1: guys like like Eli Drinkwitz was Adam and he was
[34:27] Speaker 1: not going to talk if there would be any contact.
[34:30] Speaker 1: He was no way he was talking to anyone until
[34:33] Speaker 1: after their season, which included a bowl game I think
[34:36] Speaker 1: on like the twenty seventh, So I don't know whether
[34:38] Speaker 1: there was interest on either side there, but that was
[34:41] Speaker 1: like he had that principle. Well, good for Eli drink Woitz.
[34:44] Speaker 1: But it almost got to that point but it didn't.
[34:48] Speaker 1: And I think when Whittingham got involved, you know, it
[34:53] Speaker 1: was confusing with witting him because he got fired after
[34:56] Speaker 1: Sharon Moore.
[34:57] Speaker 3: Well he stepped down technically.
[34:59] Speaker 1: Stepped down technically technically, but that was after right.
[35:04] Speaker 3: Yes, it was. I think it was the twelfth I
[35:06] Speaker 3: think moment he.
[35:07] Speaker 1: Wasn't involved originally, then he finally steps down and it
[35:12] Speaker 1: was like did he get like what is happening there?
[35:15] Speaker 1: And he was very out of I didn't I'm not
[35:17] Speaker 1: I'm not retiring, but you know, whatever term you want
[35:22] Speaker 1: to use. Utah wanted to go in a different direction.
[35:24] Speaker 1: And so now all of a sudden, here's Winningham. And
[35:28] Speaker 1: I think that you know it was you know when
[35:32] Speaker 1: you looked at it, he's not Kaylen de Bor, Like
[35:36] Speaker 1: there was a lot of excitement about Kaylen de Bor.
[35:37] Speaker 1: He sit there and you know, the fans come up
[35:40] Speaker 1: with John Harbaugh or you know, could we get this
[35:43] Speaker 1: guy or even Kenny Dillingham, Well, you know young guys
[35:46] Speaker 1: and to like Whittingham doesn't bring that first of like,
[35:50] Speaker 1: oh my goodness, but then all of a sudden, it's like, wait,
[35:52] Speaker 1: this is exactly what we need. And I think he
[35:55] Speaker 1: was able to win that over and at a time
[35:57] Speaker 1: when the school absolutely needs did a head football coach
[36:01] Speaker 1: who was again the adult in the room where you
[36:03] Speaker 1: could just be like, okay, everyone exhale, this is going
[36:06] Speaker 1: to be good. You probably couldn't have found a better
[36:10] Speaker 1: candidate to bring that part. Now, can he win at
[36:14] Speaker 1: the level that wins you a national championship? I don't know,
[36:17] Speaker 1: that's like the only thing that he hasn't done. But
[36:20] Speaker 1: you know, as you can would five star recruiting batlets
[36:23] Speaker 1: one some but those are very hard and Michigan's not.
[36:27] Speaker 1: They don't win national championships all the time like they
[36:30] Speaker 1: you know, I mean they've won two and since the sixties,
[36:36] Speaker 1: So you know, I just think it panned out the
[36:40] Speaker 1: way it all did. But it was it was an
[36:42] Speaker 1: interesting search because it was very limited and a lot
[36:44] Speaker 1: of it was like who would be a candidate where
[36:47] Speaker 1: if that thing had opened, if this if the relationship
[36:50] Speaker 1: with with the romantic relationship or whatever his relationship is
[36:56] Speaker 1: it broken off in November and Sharon Moore have been
[36:58] Speaker 1: fired on November tenth. Every almost every college football coach
[37:03] Speaker 1: would have been a candidate.
[37:05] Speaker 3: Okay.
[37:05] Speaker 5: And so when Whittingham gets the job, was this a
[37:10] Speaker 5: Michigan like, Okay, we're resetting the search and this is
[37:14] Speaker 5: like a forty eight hour thing conversation. Oh there's interest here,
[37:18] Speaker 5: let's move quickly. Were they keeping him warm? Did he
[37:21] Speaker 5: express interest after he stepped down? What is known about
[37:26] Speaker 5: how long this process took.
[37:29] Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know exactly. I know the
[37:32] Speaker 1: dobor the Oklahoma, Alabama playoff game was was a big game,
[37:36] Speaker 1: and that was what the nineteenth. Yes, right, So Whittingham
[37:42] Speaker 1: was hired the twenty sixth. So by it's my understanding
[37:47] Speaker 1: is I look back on it, and I could be wrong,
[37:51] Speaker 1: but by the twenty fourth he was So it's about
[37:58] Speaker 1: I think it was that Sunday, the twenty first. I
[38:02] Speaker 1: think I reported this is gonna like, don't this is
[38:04] Speaker 1: going to take a little while like it, and we
[38:06] Speaker 1: were here and after Christmas, maybe even after after New
[38:10] Speaker 1: Year's and it wasn't like there's going to be a
[38:14] Speaker 1: hire tomorrow morning, which is always That was just like
[38:19] Speaker 1: a tweet we put out. I mean it was like
[38:22] Speaker 1: caveat who knows? But yeah, again not that's the kind
[38:27] Speaker 1: of reporting that the harms nobody. So I think in
[38:32] Speaker 1: those first couple of days after he became the candidate,
[38:36] Speaker 1: and then I think really by the twenty fourth that
[38:39] Speaker 1: he had been settled on and he had settled on it,
[38:42] Speaker 1: but he wanted to like there was no contact as
[38:46] Speaker 1: I understand it, between Michigan and him on Christmas. You know,
[38:48] Speaker 1: he's a devout, you know, believed devout in his faith
[38:53] Speaker 1: and all that, and he wanted to spend Christmas, even
[38:54] Speaker 1: Christmas focused on that, and then obviously by the twenty
[38:59] Speaker 1: sixth reported early in the twenty six PET nine and
[39:03] Speaker 1: but we had heard by Christmas night that it was
[39:06] Speaker 1: going to be winning Ham and they're just trying to
[39:08] Speaker 1: piece that together until we which we were able to
[39:11] Speaker 1: do in the morning. But so I think that was
[39:13] Speaker 1: kind of the time. I don't know that he was
[39:15] Speaker 1: a candidate. I think the Deboor thing was just I'm
[39:19] Speaker 1: not going to say this is absolutely what was going
[39:20] Speaker 1: to happen, because I don't know if Calen de Boor
[39:22] Speaker 1: would have left Alabama, and I don't know that they
[39:24] Speaker 1: would hire him, but there was certainly a scenario where
[39:26] Speaker 1: you could envision that if Oklahoma beats Alabama and they
[39:31] Speaker 1: want to go at the Boor and divorce and they're saying, yeah,
[39:33] Speaker 1: I'll take this job, you know, then he's hired. But
[39:36] Speaker 1: that did somebody was.
[39:37] Speaker 5: Entertaining the idea, yeah he did.
[39:40] Speaker 1: He wasn't really ruling it out. Let's put out like
[39:43] Speaker 1: there's ruling it out, and there's you know, okay, like
[39:47] Speaker 1: nobody was going after Dan Lanning like you heard nothing.
[39:51] Speaker 1: Dan Lanning's like, I'm not leaving, and then you never
[39:53] Speaker 1: heard all the jobs. You never heard one buzz of
[39:57] Speaker 1: like landing's possible. Like no gossip, I mean agents, coaches, ads,
[40:03] Speaker 1: They gossip NonStop. When you don't hear anything about a
[40:06] Speaker 1: guy that they actually mean it.
[40:10] Speaker 3: All right.
[40:11] Speaker 4: Dan Wetzel from ESPN ESPN dot com. I think it's
[40:14] Speaker 4: fair to say once in a decade, showing not enough
[40:18] Speaker 4: on the podcast six.
[40:23] Speaker 3: Right around forty four, then I promise you we will.
[40:26] Speaker 3: We will definitely bring.
[40:27] Speaker 1: You back in my forties. Then it will be a
[40:30] Speaker 1: little more mature. Hey, I hope you guys have ten
[40:34] Speaker 1: more years of success. It's probably because you rarely have
[40:37] Speaker 1: me on that. This show is no, I'm proud of
[40:40] Speaker 1: you guys.
[40:41] Speaker 3: We're leaving views on the floor. That's what this is usual.
[40:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, I bring the eye candy.
[40:47] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sex sells.
[40:51] Speaker 1: All right.
[40:52] Speaker 3: Thank you, world work.
[40:53] Speaker 4: Thank you so much for your time. We will do
[40:55] Speaker 4: this again at some point soon and keep up the
[40:58] Speaker 4: good work.
[40:59] Speaker 1: Thank you. Thanks you guys.
[41:01] Speaker 5: And with that tie, extremely please to welcome on making
[41:04] Speaker 5: his solid verbal debut. Yes from the Mountain time zone
[41:08] Speaker 5: and honestly, we don't dip into the Mountain time zone enough.
[41:11] Speaker 5: Host on ESPN Radio seven hundred formerly PAC twelve Radio
[41:15] Speaker 5: formerly light Heavyweight. Yes, Yes, Sean O'Connell, Welcome to the show.
[41:22] Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. Yeah, light heavyweight is probably firmly
[41:26] Speaker 2: in the rearview at this moment. Oh, you know, we
[41:28] Speaker 2: could cut down if we ever needed to.
[41:30] Speaker 5: Oh, Mike, well, first of all, okay, let's start briefly
[41:33] Speaker 5: there because we have a lot to get into with
[41:35] Speaker 5: Utah football and Kyle Whittingham. You're cutting down. What's the process.
[41:41] Speaker 2: So obviously, you do the whole healthy diet for six
[41:45] Speaker 2: to eight weeks and you whittle down as much as
[41:48] Speaker 2: you can in a healthy way without hurting yourself. And
[41:52] Speaker 2: then you get to what you know, like forty eight
[41:56] Speaker 2: hours before the fight, and you dehydrate yourself aggressively to
[42:00] Speaker 2: get the final in my case, thirteen to nineteen pounds off,
[42:04] Speaker 2: depending on how well I had done with the dieting thing.
[42:08] Speaker 2: And yeah, that's just you know, it's what you think
[42:11] Speaker 2: it is. It's working out in a sauna suit and
[42:14] Speaker 2: then once your body gets too fatigued and dehydrated, you
[42:18] Speaker 2: just go sit in a sauna and give yourself, you know,
[42:22] Speaker 2: fifteen minutes in the sauna two minutes out of the sauna,
[42:26] Speaker 2: and you do that whole rigamarole until you're dry as
[42:29] Speaker 2: a raisin, and then you step on a scale at
[42:31] Speaker 2: exactly two hundred and five pounds and then you aggressively
[42:35] Speaker 2: rehydrate and you're back to your walk around Waight in
[42:39] Speaker 2: about six hours.
[42:40] Speaker 5: So, okay, we are doing a show about the sort
[42:44] Speaker 5: of both sides of the Utah saga with moving to
[42:50] Speaker 5: Morgan Scaley and having Kyle Whittingham step down, although that's
[42:55] Speaker 5: maybe a loaded term for what all kind of went
[42:58] Speaker 5: down and making his way to Ann Arbert to become
[43:01] Speaker 5: the new head coach of Michigan. I'd like to know
[43:04] Speaker 5: the context of what people should know about the final season,
[43:10] Speaker 5: the final few days, the final three four five years
[43:13] Speaker 5: of Kyle Whittingham, maybe behind the scenes as it relates
[43:17] Speaker 5: to who he was and meant to Utah football. So
[43:22] Speaker 5: if you could do that relatively quickly, that'd be great.
[43:26] Speaker 5: But what should people know about how Kyle Whittingham sort
[43:31] Speaker 5: of finished out his career at Utah short term and
[43:34] Speaker 5: medium term?
[43:36] Speaker 2: Well, I think important to focus on the fact that
[43:39] Speaker 2: he went from maybe the worst season of his career
[43:43] Speaker 2: of his tenure with that five and seven year where
[43:45] Speaker 2: had these huge expectations. You were expected to win a
[43:48] Speaker 2: big twelve conference and then you didn't even make a
[43:51] Speaker 2: bowl game. You bounce back from that with a ten
[43:54] Speaker 2: win season, which is something that right now there's a
[43:56] Speaker 2: lot of angry youth fans that don't want to focus on,
[43:58] Speaker 2: and there's probably a lot of people around the country
[44:00] Speaker 2: that don't realize how important that turnaround was for him
[44:05] Speaker 2: personally for the program because of you know where the
[44:08] Speaker 2: landscape of nil is and all that stuff. You can't
[44:11] Speaker 2: really afford if you're the University of Utah to have
[44:14] Speaker 2: back to back bad seasons and then dig yourself out
[44:17] Speaker 2: of that hole. So that was massively important, and I
[44:20] Speaker 2: thought it was a real testament to who he is
[44:23] Speaker 2: as a coach and the culture that he had built
[44:26] Speaker 2: at the University of Utah in his time. And then
[44:28] Speaker 2: when you get to the end of it, here's what
[44:31] Speaker 2: I was told. He was initially all season long planning
[44:37] Speaker 2: the exit, and I was reading the tea leaves like
[44:39] Speaker 2: everyone else was. And you know, he had the entire
[44:42] Speaker 2: winningham clan show up at that Kansas State game, the
[44:45] Speaker 2: final home game they played. There were people there that
[44:48] Speaker 2: don't usually show up to the games. They were taking
[44:50] Speaker 2: pictures on the field. After the game, it was like, Okay,
[44:53] Speaker 2: this is it. This is his last appearance at home.
[44:55] Speaker 2: He's going to retire after this. And then in the
[44:59] Speaker 2: eleven hour, I think he confronted the reality of being
[45:03] Speaker 2: a super healthy, super invigorated, you know, sixty four year
[45:07] Speaker 2: old who's been better shape than you or I and
[45:10] Speaker 2: was like, why do I need to walk away? I'm
[45:12] Speaker 2: making six and a half million bucks a year to
[45:14] Speaker 2: do my dream job. I'd like to stay. And at
[45:18] Speaker 2: that point a lot of the booster base and the
[45:21] Speaker 2: athletic department in some ways had kind of decided they
[45:26] Speaker 2: were ready to move on, that the transition plan was
[45:28] Speaker 2: going to happen and was going to happen now. And
[45:31] Speaker 2: he wasn't given the the carte blanche like oh you
[45:37] Speaker 2: want to stay? How long do you want to stay?
[45:39] Speaker 2: It was like, well, hold on a minute. We've been
[45:41] Speaker 2: doing this now for three four years. Let's talk about this.
[45:46] Speaker 2: That was happening concurrent with a scandal at Michigan and
[45:50] Speaker 2: suddenly an opening at Michigan and agents do their job,
[45:54] Speaker 2: and I think that he realized, oh wait, if I'm
[45:57] Speaker 2: not super welcome here at a place I've been twenty
[46:00] Speaker 2: one years and there is mutual interest with a blue blood,
[46:05] Speaker 2: you know, top five job in America, maybe I should
[46:10] Speaker 2: take my talents to South Beach, San Arbor. And it
[46:14] Speaker 2: kind of felt like that was sort of mutually agreed upon.
[46:19] Speaker 2: Whether you think that was the right thing for the
[46:20] Speaker 2: athletic department to do or for him to do or whatever.
[46:23] Speaker 2: I think it'll all come out in the wash. But
[46:26] Speaker 2: it was very much going to be his farewell season
[46:30] Speaker 2: at the University of Utah until that final week when
[46:34] Speaker 2: the shroon more stuff happened, and that was the same
[46:39] Speaker 2: he had a clause in his contract that he was
[46:40] Speaker 2: supposed to inform the university that Friday whether or not
[46:44] Speaker 2: he want he intended to return, and when he said, yeah,
[46:47] Speaker 2: I think I would rather return, and I would like,
[46:50] Speaker 2: you know, an extension and a raise is what some
[46:53] Speaker 2: people are saying. The ethletic director has refuted that, but
[46:57] Speaker 2: it was not the warm welcome he expected, maybe after
[47:00] Speaker 2: all of he's done for Utah to receive. So he
[47:03] Speaker 2: decided to go to Ann Arbor.
[47:05] Speaker 5: And Morgan Scalley was named essentially the head coach and Waiting,
[47:10] Speaker 5: you know, way in advance of this, and again, this
[47:13] Speaker 5: is what I have heard. I think a lot of
[47:15] Speaker 5: people had heard even years beforehand. People were saying, we
[47:19] Speaker 5: don't know how long he's actually going to be in
[47:22] Speaker 5: Salt Lake City. Obviously you know, the good seasons, down seasons,
[47:26] Speaker 5: you know, obviously horrific events off field with Aaron Lowe
[47:31] Speaker 5: and Ty Jordan that it seemed that he was understandably
[47:35] Speaker 5: very worn down just being you know, the head of
[47:38] Speaker 5: a huge program for a long time and obviously having
[47:42] Speaker 5: to deal with and lead a program going through the
[47:44] Speaker 5: tragedies that they did. So this wasn't even a first
[47:48] Speaker 5: time this kind of narrative was broached. I don't believe
[47:52] Speaker 5: is that true?
[47:52] Speaker 2: No, No, you're absolutely right. And if I was better
[47:55] Speaker 2: at my job, I would have explained all that concisely.
[47:57] Speaker 3: No, you're good.
[47:58] Speaker 2: Morgan Scally was was named head Coaching Waiting, I mean
[48:02] Speaker 2: effectively five years ago, and then you know, there was
[48:06] Speaker 2: an old text message at surface, so they took that
[48:08] Speaker 2: title away from him temporarily and then they gave it
[48:11] Speaker 2: back to him. And even when there was that minor
[48:15] Speaker 2: scandal unfolding, there was never any question that Morgan Scalley
[48:18] Speaker 2: was going to be the guy, and Kyle Whittingham said
[48:22] Speaker 2: after he had already moved to ann Arbor, he said
[48:24] Speaker 2: in an interview I might have been on the Dan
[48:26] Speaker 2: Patrick Show where he said, look, I made a mistake
[48:29] Speaker 2: when I started answering questions about how long I intended
[48:32] Speaker 2: to stay right right, because people would ask, you know,
[48:36] Speaker 2: you're sixty years old, now you're fifty nine years old,
[48:39] Speaker 2: now you've been here for seventeen years, whatever, and he
[48:42] Speaker 2: would instead of being like, yep, I'm coaching until the
[48:45] Speaker 2: wheels fall off, he would say things like, well, I'm
[48:47] Speaker 2: not going to be a lifer. I'm not going to
[48:49] Speaker 2: coach as long as my dad did. I'm gonna spend
[48:52] Speaker 2: some time with my family, my grandkids, and he started
[48:54] Speaker 2: to kind of like set expectations that people held him to,
[48:58] Speaker 2: whether that was fair or not.
[49:00] Speaker 4: We talked a little bit before we hit go here
[49:02] Speaker 4: Sean about the fan base as a whole and its reaction,
[49:05] Speaker 4: maybe not just specifically to this, but I'm curious where
[49:10] Speaker 4: is the fan base at with this, because we have
[49:14] Speaker 4: seen this play out at a number of other colleges
[49:17] Speaker 4: and institutions. Someone's been there a while either they were
[49:21] Speaker 4: out there welcome, they decide to step away. Can go
[49:25] Speaker 4: a million different directions, but the fan base and how
[49:28] Speaker 4: it feels about those circumstances is always kind of interesting
[49:31] Speaker 4: to chart. Do people overwhelmingly approve of moving in a
[49:37] Speaker 4: different direction? Are there some people that are noticeably angry
[49:42] Speaker 4: at Kyle Whittingham that he would take his talents to
[49:44] Speaker 4: ann Arbor? Give us a sense for where the youth
[49:47] Speaker 4: fan base is at.
[49:49] Speaker 2: I think that a lot of people were ready for
[49:52] Speaker 2: the transition to happen. Everyone's very optimistic about Morgan Scalley.
[49:56] Speaker 2: I mean, he's one of the favorite sons of the program.
[49:59] Speaker 2: He's never been anywhere else, as you guys are aware,
[50:03] Speaker 2: grew up in the shadow of the University of Utah,
[50:06] Speaker 2: played at the University of Utah and became a GA
[50:10] Speaker 2: and has been there. He's never gone to any other
[50:12] Speaker 2: place to work. He's he is the man, right, He's
[50:16] Speaker 2: a Utah man through and through, and so a lot
[50:18] Speaker 2: of people were like kind of sick of the fact
[50:20] Speaker 2: that the offense never really takes off under Kyle Whittingham.
[50:24] Speaker 2: This last year he refuted some of that, and we're
[50:28] Speaker 2: ready to see what Morgan can do, especially he's a charismatic,
[50:33] Speaker 2: energetic guy, and there's a feeling that maybe he'll do
[50:35] Speaker 2: a better job rallying booster support and helping Utah keep
[50:39] Speaker 2: up in the NIL space, whereas Kyle was somewhat resistant
[50:43] Speaker 2: to all of that, And whether that's accurate or not,
[50:47] Speaker 2: that was the perception. The angst from the fan base
[50:51] Speaker 2: comes in with Kyle Whittingham insisting that he would always
[50:55] Speaker 2: do what is right for the program, and he would
[50:57] Speaker 2: step down and retire when the program was in a
[51:01] Speaker 2: better place, and when he knew that it was time
[51:04] Speaker 2: and things were ready for him to move on and
[51:06] Speaker 2: for Utah to be where it needed to be. And
[51:10] Speaker 2: instead of leaving the program in a good place, he
[51:13] Speaker 2: did what every other coach taking a new job does,
[51:16] Speaker 2: and he said, all right, well, I'm going to set
[51:18] Speaker 2: myself up as best I can at my new spot.
[51:21] Speaker 2: And he took his entire offensive staff. He took one
[51:24] Speaker 2: of the best offensive line coaches in the country. He
[51:26] Speaker 2: took the best recruiter from the former Utah staff in
[51:30] Speaker 2: Lewis Powell, who's a defensive ends coach who is just
[51:33] Speaker 2: an absolute monster on the recruiting trail, and he handpicked,
[51:39] Speaker 2: you know, the four or five best talents that he
[51:42] Speaker 2: thought would move from Utah to Michigan, and the big
[51:45] Speaker 2: ten seamlessly from a player perspective, including a legacy recruit
[51:51] Speaker 2: who had enrolled in classes and was brand new to
[51:53] Speaker 2: the University of Utah. Was an early enroll, he out
[51:56] Speaker 2: of high school and the second highest rated guy that
[51:59] Speaker 2: the Utes had ever got out of high school. And
[52:02] Speaker 2: that guy's at Michigan now. So that's where the fan
[52:04] Speaker 2: base said, Oh, you wanted to leave us in a
[52:08] Speaker 2: better place, huh, and you strip the cupboards bear again,
[52:11] Speaker 2: that's the perception thing. I think Utah is going to
[52:13] Speaker 2: be fine. I think every coach in the world would
[52:16] Speaker 2: do the same thing. And what are you gonna do.
[52:18] Speaker 2: You're gonna tell the Michigan fan base, Well, I promised
[52:21] Speaker 2: all the people in Salt Lake City that I wouldn't
[52:23] Speaker 2: bring the best coaches and players with me. I mean,
[52:26] Speaker 2: come on, he's doing what any one of us would do.
[52:28] Speaker 2: But fans are not rational when these emotional things happen.
[52:34] Speaker 4: I suspect we're going to have a bunch of Michigan
[52:36] Speaker 4: and Utah fans that are listening to this episode. So
[52:40] Speaker 4: I think it's fair to ask if you can compare
[52:43] Speaker 4: and contrast the differences between Whittingham and Scaley. On the
[52:48] Speaker 4: Whittingham side, obviously, Michigan fans are curious to know what
[52:52] Speaker 4: they're getting, and on the Utah side, what do they
[52:54] Speaker 4: get with Morgan Scaley that they didn't have with Whittingham.
[52:58] Speaker 2: I'll start with the Utah side. You're going to get
[53:01] Speaker 2: a lot of the Morgan Scaly and Kyle Whittingham are
[53:05] Speaker 2: more similar than they are different. So if Utah fans
[53:08] Speaker 2: are expecting that the program's going to be a totally
[53:12] Speaker 2: new look and one hundred percent turnaround, not the case.
[53:16] Speaker 2: Morgan is going to rightfully so adopt all the good
[53:20] Speaker 2: things from the Whittingham regime and he's gonna mold it
[53:24] Speaker 2: into his own style. I think the big difference is
[53:27] Speaker 2: going to be he has stated over and over again
[53:30] Speaker 2: he wants to be more creative offensively, he wants to
[53:34] Speaker 2: be more threatening down the field. He wants to be
[53:37] Speaker 2: more of a wide open passing less than the Whittingham
[53:41] Speaker 2: ball control like slug it out type offensive approach. And
[53:46] Speaker 2: look again, to be fair to Kyle Whittingham, he brought
[53:48] Speaker 2: in Jason Beck this past year and they made some
[53:52] Speaker 2: real magic, but a lot of that was through the
[53:54] Speaker 2: run game. You had the number two rushing attack in
[53:57] Speaker 2: the country. They were a marginal passing attack. And Morgan,
[54:00] Speaker 2: over and over he said, no, we are going to
[54:02] Speaker 2: you have to win through the air in college football.
[54:05] Speaker 2: We're still going to be dominant the line of scrimmage
[54:07] Speaker 2: and we're going to run the ball, but you have
[54:09] Speaker 2: to have things that Utah has it had in twenty years.
[54:12] Speaker 2: You haven't had a thousand yard receiver at the University
[54:14] Speaker 2: of Utah in over a decade, right, I mean, these
[54:18] Speaker 2: are difficult things to reconcile when you're trying to win
[54:23] Speaker 2: modern Big twelve championships and make a case that you
[54:27] Speaker 2: should be in the college football playoff and you're going
[54:29] Speaker 2: to win games there. So I think that's that end
[54:32] Speaker 2: Morgan Scalley is he's not yet jaded against the criticisms
[54:37] Speaker 2: of the fan base and playing the well, we're not
[54:41] Speaker 2: going to show you any pieces of practice type stuff.
[54:44] Speaker 2: Kyle Whittingham got to a point where practice was closed
[54:48] Speaker 2: medi he didn't get to watch anything. He didn't want
[54:50] Speaker 2: to have to answer questions. He did it because it
[54:52] Speaker 2: was in the contract Morgan is at the beginning of
[54:56] Speaker 2: his head coaching tenure and is a lot more charismatic, loquacious,
[55:00] Speaker 2: and transparent with things like that. I hope we never
[55:03] Speaker 2: beat that out of him by being ridiculous fans for
[55:07] Speaker 2: Michigan fans who are wondering what you're gonna get with
[55:09] Speaker 2: Kyle Whittingham, I mean, look, he's a man of great integrity.
[55:13] Speaker 2: He is the perfect solution to bounce back from a
[55:18] Speaker 2: scandal with a young coach, extramarital affair type situation. I mean,
[55:22] Speaker 2: Kyle Whittingham is the antithesis of all that. He is
[55:26] Speaker 2: the steadying force that your athletic department and your football
[55:30] Speaker 2: program probably need right now. He's also an old school
[55:34] Speaker 2: guy that is at times going to frustrate you because
[55:38] Speaker 2: he's not going to open things up in the passing
[55:41] Speaker 2: game or there. He's going to have a hard time
[55:44] Speaker 2: making a case to the elite wide receivers in a
[55:47] Speaker 2: recruiting class or in the transfer portal. Yeah, come to
[55:50] Speaker 2: Michigan instead of going to Ohio State, Because I mean,
[55:53] Speaker 2: people are going to do their research and they're gonna
[55:55] Speaker 2: be like, this guy's offenses don't produce big time wide
[55:58] Speaker 2: receiver talents, and I think that is a hurdle he's
[56:02] Speaker 2: gonna have to get over in ann Arbor, and you know,
[56:05] Speaker 2: he never did in Salt Lake City, so he'll have
[56:08] Speaker 2: more talent at his disposal in ann Arbor to do it.
[56:11] Speaker 2: Maybe that's the solution he's looking for.
[56:14] Speaker 5: How did the the Jason Beck Devin Dan Pierre thing
[56:17] Speaker 5: sort of play out when they arrived? And this I
[56:20] Speaker 5: think is instructive for what's going on at Michigan as
[56:23] Speaker 5: well as you know, he's building around a you know,
[56:25] Speaker 5: a really good quarterback in terms of physical potential and skill.
[56:31] Speaker 5: It wasn't just Kyle Whittingham saying we need a change.
[56:34] Speaker 5: I need something dramatic after obviously all those years of
[56:37] Speaker 5: Cam rising and injuries, like we need to reset because
[56:41] Speaker 5: as you mentioned, like Utah was a playoff team this
[56:44] Speaker 5: past year other than not getting into the playoff, right,
[56:47] Speaker 5: they are of playoff quality. Their loan losses were two
[56:52] Speaker 5: teams that were either in the playoff or you know,
[56:54] Speaker 5: of playoff quality. The offense was I think the most
[56:57] Speaker 5: improved offense in America related to where they were in
[57:00] Speaker 5: twenty twenty four. How did that come together? Obviously, Jason
[57:04] Speaker 5: Beck has ties to the state. Was this a Kyle Whittingham,
[57:08] Speaker 5: you know, introspective we need to do something dramatic to
[57:11] Speaker 5: change or was this sort of placed on him from
[57:15] Speaker 5: others that were like, you need to make a change
[57:17] Speaker 5: because what's going on on offense is not working.
[57:19] Speaker 1: Well.
[57:20] Speaker 2: I felt a little bit bad because Andy Ludwig kind
[57:23] Speaker 2: of fell on the sword of what was an injury
[57:26] Speaker 2: riddled two seasons, right, and those most of those happened
[57:30] Speaker 2: on the offensive side of the ball, and you weren't
[57:31] Speaker 2: able to get things going. I mean, Utah literally was
[57:34] Speaker 2: down to their fifth quarterback in twenty twenty three and
[57:38] Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four. All respect to Luke Batari. He's
[57:42] Speaker 2: an awesome player, but that's not the guy, right. So, yeah,
[57:47] Speaker 2: they made a change on the offensive staff, and they
[57:50] Speaker 2: were looking for like so many other teams were last
[57:53] Speaker 2: off cycle, a last offseason cycle. They were looking for
[57:57] Speaker 2: a coordinator that could come in and revital the offense.
[58:01] Speaker 2: And also Cam Rising had moved on medical retirement, so
[58:06] Speaker 2: you needed someone with a quarterback connection. And there was
[58:10] Speaker 2: the Oklahoma thing where they brought in our Buckle and
[58:12] Speaker 2: Matier and Utah was in the in the running for that,
[58:16] Speaker 2: but how are you going to beat Oklahoma? And you know,
[58:19] Speaker 2: the familiarity that a lot of people on the staff
[58:21] Speaker 2: had with Jason Beck. The New Mexico coaching staff was,
[58:26] Speaker 2: I mean, that's Bronco Menenhall, who was an old rival
[58:29] Speaker 2: of Kyle Whittingham's and of Utah's for a long time.
[58:32] Speaker 2: There's all these crossovers and ties between those two staffs
[58:37] Speaker 2: and Morgan Scalley. This is where it gets so interesting.
[58:41] Speaker 2: Morgan Scalley was heavily involved in bringing Jason Beck from
[58:46] Speaker 2: New Mexico to Utah, convincing Devin dan Pierre to come
[58:50] Speaker 2: with him, because he was, like, I mean, every single
[58:53] Speaker 2: person in the state and in the program thought that
[58:55] Speaker 2: Kyle Whittingham was going to be done after this year
[58:58] Speaker 2: and that Morgan scally would then be working with Jason
[59:01] Speaker 2: Beck and Devin Dampierre who still had eligibility. So he
[59:04] Speaker 2: was a huge part of bringing those guys to the
[59:06] Speaker 2: University of Utah, and obviously the marriage worked out famously.
[59:11] Speaker 2: Even when he was banged up, Devin dan Pierre was
[59:13] Speaker 2: incredibly productive, and they got a guy behind him in
[59:16] Speaker 2: Bird Ficklin, who was just as good, if not better,
[59:20] Speaker 2: with more arm talent, although he's young and doesn't have
[59:22] Speaker 2: the level of experience. So I mean, it's a beautiful thing.
[59:25] Speaker 2: And it allowed Utah to have that bounce back season,
[59:28] Speaker 2: and unfortunately it ended up not being a long term marriage.
[59:33] Speaker 2: Because when Kyle Whittingham says, Hey, do you want to
[59:36] Speaker 2: go coach in ann Arbor? Do you want to go
[59:38] Speaker 2: to Michigan? Jason Beck has to be thinking the same
[59:42] Speaker 2: thing that Jay Hill is thinking. The defensive coordinator Kyle
[59:46] Speaker 2: brought from BYU that Morgan Scalley was thinking under Kyle Whittingham, Well,
[59:51] Speaker 2: he's only going to be here for a couple more years,
[59:53] Speaker 2: and if I do a good job and if we win,
[59:56] Speaker 2: I could be the next guy there. And to be
[1:00:00] Speaker 2: the next guy at Michigan is one heck of a thing.
[1:00:03] Speaker 5: How is recruiting or I guess, how has recruiting been
[1:00:07] Speaker 5: at Utah? In your eyes? Because it from Afar it
[1:00:11] Speaker 5: seemed like, Okay, they would find developmental guys and they'd
[1:00:13] Speaker 5: get them there and they'd stay around for a long
[1:00:15] Speaker 5: time and they'd produce NFL level talent. And I felt
[1:00:19] Speaker 5: like suddenly Utah was upping the ante, especially in California.
[1:00:23] Speaker 5: They were finding more guys, and Utah was really doing
[1:00:26] Speaker 5: a terrific job of building out a deeper and deeper roster,
[1:00:31] Speaker 5: and now you have this enormous change, even though there
[1:00:33] Speaker 5: are guys returning under Morgan Scalley, especially on defense. What
[1:00:37] Speaker 5: is the state of Utah recruiting now? And what was
[1:00:43] Speaker 5: behind the scenes. You mentioned an assistant coach who was
[1:00:45] Speaker 5: excellent the defensive ends coach. You know what was the
[1:00:48] Speaker 5: ride of Utah recruiting these past few years under Kyle Whittingham.
[1:00:56] Speaker 2: They've done an incredible job kind of consistently through the
[1:00:59] Speaker 2: Pac twelve and Big twelve era of building that pipeline
[1:01:02] Speaker 2: and continuing to get better and better players and add
[1:01:05] Speaker 2: more depth like you're saying. And I know that a
[1:01:09] Speaker 2: lot of programs around the country probably feel like, oh,
[1:01:12] Speaker 2: we do it better than other people do it, But
[1:01:14] Speaker 2: they really have done a remarkable job of sort of
[1:01:17] Speaker 2: keeping the wolves at bay and not losing a ton
[1:01:20] Speaker 2: of talent to the transfer portal and keeping convincing guys
[1:01:24] Speaker 2: even guys weren't playing a ton from year to year,
[1:01:27] Speaker 2: to stick around and to develop and say hey, just
[1:01:30] Speaker 2: trust us, we will get you to the league. Trust us.
[1:01:32] Speaker 2: You're gonna be on the field next year whatever. And
[1:01:35] Speaker 2: you know, they really got people to buy in. Now,
[1:01:40] Speaker 2: the question is will that remain under Morgan Scalley. I mean,
[1:01:44] Speaker 2: no bones about it. Lewis Powell was the best recruiter
[1:01:47] Speaker 2: on the staff. That's why he's at Michigan. And he
[1:01:50] Speaker 2: was a big reason why the Celesie Moa kid was
[1:01:54] Speaker 2: coming to the University of Utah. He flipped from Tennessee.
[1:01:57] Speaker 2: I will say this though, the number one recruit in
[1:02:00] Speaker 2: the history of Utah football signed this last December and
[1:02:06] Speaker 2: he is still on the roster. He's an early enroll league.
[1:02:09] Speaker 2: He's a five star offensive tackle. He's the number five
[1:02:11] Speaker 2: kid in the entire class. His name's Kelvin Obot and
[1:02:15] Speaker 2: he played for Jordan Gross, who's now the offensive line
[1:02:19] Speaker 2: coach at the University of Utah. He played for him
[1:02:21] Speaker 2: in high school up in a little farming town called Fruitland, Idaho.
[1:02:25] Speaker 2: So the pipeline is going to be what you talked
[1:02:28] Speaker 2: about already, finding guys that are maybe a little bit overlooked,
[1:02:32] Speaker 2: developmental type guys, guys from the FCS level or from
[1:02:36] Speaker 2: the Group of five level that have production and that
[1:02:40] Speaker 2: you can say he might be an inch too short
[1:02:42] Speaker 2: for Alabama to be in love with, or he might
[1:02:45] Speaker 2: be twenty pounds too light for Texas to be in
[1:02:48] Speaker 2: love with. But that's what Utah has used from the
[1:02:52] Speaker 2: beginning of Utah football history to climb to where they're
[1:02:55] Speaker 2: at right now. And Morgan Scalley was one of those
[1:02:58] Speaker 2: guys and was one of those guys. And I mean
[1:03:03] Speaker 2: Luther Ellis in some ways was one of those guys.
[1:03:05] Speaker 2: And he's still your defensive line coach. So they're gonna
[1:03:08] Speaker 2: get those guys. They're gonna find those guys, and they're
[1:03:10] Speaker 2: going to continue to develop those guys in an altered
[1:03:13] Speaker 2: landscape where you don't have as much time to develop people.
[1:03:16] Speaker 2: You got to do it faster. But that's what they're
[1:03:18] Speaker 2: going to do.
[1:03:20] Speaker 3: How do people feel about Morgan Scalley? Sorry?
[1:03:22] Speaker 2: Ty?
[1:03:22] Speaker 5: I mean, you basically have a coach and you mentioned
[1:03:26] Speaker 5: to that, you mentioned this that this is kind of
[1:03:28] Speaker 5: all people have known in the modern era. And even
[1:03:31] Speaker 5: though Morgan Scalley is raised and you know, uh been
[1:03:35] Speaker 5: a youth through and through, this is different. This is
[1:03:39] Speaker 5: a lot of change for a place that hasn't had
[1:03:41] Speaker 5: that change basically ever, you have a quarterback who's there
[1:03:45] Speaker 5: in cam Rising forever. There's no change, like even was
[1:03:49] Speaker 5: it Travis Wilson seemed to be around forever, like you
[1:03:52] Speaker 5: go back and there's just never any change with Utah.
[1:03:56] Speaker 5: How are people who root for this team handling it?
[1:04:01] Speaker 2: Well, it's funny because you're absolutely right. We've never had
[1:04:05] Speaker 2: change And the biggest change is that you elevate a
[1:04:08] Speaker 2: guy who's been here since nineteen ninety seven to be
[1:04:11] Speaker 2: your head coach. So oh how much? How much of
[1:04:15] Speaker 2: a change is that? Really? No? I think people are excited.
[1:04:20] Speaker 2: Obviously there's cautious optimism because you did lose some important players,
[1:04:24] Speaker 2: and you lost some important coaches and the guys that
[1:04:26] Speaker 2: are well respected. But people believe in Morgan Scalley, and
[1:04:31] Speaker 2: Morgan Scalley is going to meet the fan base and
[1:04:34] Speaker 2: the booster bass in the middle in a way that
[1:04:37] Speaker 2: Kyle Whittingham refused to or was unable to. Maybe he
[1:04:41] Speaker 2: just Morgan is just better with people, and we'll see
[1:04:46] Speaker 2: if that changes at all after you know, the riggers
[1:04:49] Speaker 2: of being a head coach wear him down. But people
[1:04:53] Speaker 2: are optimistic and believe in the vision he has. His
[1:04:57] Speaker 2: press conference was an absolute home run, and I know
[1:05:01] Speaker 2: That doesn't mean you're gonna win a bunch of football games,
[1:05:03] Speaker 2: but there's trust that Morgan Scalley knows how to connect
[1:05:07] Speaker 2: Utah football back to its glory days. He was a
[1:05:11] Speaker 2: player in one of the best seasons in Utah football
[1:05:13] Speaker 2: history when Urban Meyer showed up. Well, two of those
[1:05:16] Speaker 2: were two of the best seasons U Taugh football history.
[1:05:19] Speaker 2: He's been a coach through the undefeated Sugar Bowl season,
[1:05:22] Speaker 2: through the Pac twelve championship seasons, and he's a pretty
[1:05:26] Speaker 2: darn good recruiter in his own right. So there's trust
[1:05:29] Speaker 2: in this fan base that Morgan Scalley is the right guy,
[1:05:32] Speaker 2: and now we just have to see how it plays out.
[1:05:35] Speaker 4: Sean, how does Kyle Whittingham handle bitter rivalries? Because Holy
[1:05:41] Speaker 4: War at Utah was recently before he left on a
[1:05:44] Speaker 4: three game losing streak. He now steps into a situation clearly,
[1:05:48] Speaker 4: Michigan Ohio State is the pre eminent rivalry in the sport.
[1:05:52] Speaker 4: Is there anything instructive from how Whittingham handled that matchup
[1:05:57] Speaker 4: and all the emotions around it? He played at BYU
[1:06:01] Speaker 4: by the way, clear Yeah, yeah, So there's I think
[1:06:04] Speaker 4: something to be learned about how he handled that circumstance
[1:06:07] Speaker 4: in Salt Lake, perhaps how he might handle a similar
[1:06:10] Speaker 4: circumstance now in ann Arbor.
[1:06:12] Speaker 2: Kyle Whittingham is petty in the rivalry world in the
[1:06:18] Speaker 2: exact right way.
[1:06:20] Speaker 3: That's awesome.
[1:06:22] Speaker 2: He will refuse to give Ohio State any credit for anything.
[1:06:28] Speaker 2: He will at some point probably be reluctant to say
[1:06:33] Speaker 2: the name of the school. He will do all the
[1:06:36] Speaker 2: things that you want your I mean, he turned his
[1:06:39] Speaker 2: back over the years on his own alma mater, where
[1:06:42] Speaker 2: he was a great player. He was a defensive player
[1:06:45] Speaker 2: of the Year in the conference. He was like a
[1:06:48] Speaker 2: BYU football legend, and he got to the point where
[1:06:51] Speaker 2: he didn't even want to play BYU. He didn't want
[1:06:53] Speaker 2: to hear from the fans he was. He was exactly
[1:06:57] Speaker 2: as petty as you want a head coach to be,
[1:07:00] Speaker 2: and he handles it well. He's like passive aggressive about
[1:07:05] Speaker 2: the rivalries rather than overly aggressive, overtly like disrespectful. He
[1:07:09] Speaker 2: does it in ways that will just needle Ohio State
[1:07:12] Speaker 2: fans to their core and make them despise Kyle Whittingham.
[1:07:17] Speaker 2: And that's what you want from a Michigan coach.
[1:07:19] Speaker 4: I was going to say, that's exactly what you want
[1:07:21] Speaker 4: from the Michigan coach.
[1:07:22] Speaker 3: Is it not.
[1:07:23] Speaker 5: My last question is to sort of along those lines
[1:07:26] Speaker 5: as well. It's just like you've spent time watching Kyle
[1:07:28] Speaker 5: Whittingham closely. He's going to a bigger place, you ties,
[1:07:31] Speaker 5: a big winning place. Michigan is a different level than
[1:07:34] Speaker 5: most other programs in the country. When you heard the
[1:07:38] Speaker 5: news and you know, aside from the like, you know,
[1:07:41] Speaker 5: the interpersonal stuff, that he has an impeccable reputation, what
[1:07:46] Speaker 5: was your reaction in terms of, like, will what he
[1:07:49] Speaker 5: does translate to that kind of fish bowl a different
[1:07:53] Speaker 5: level than most places? You know where you immediately like intrigued.
[1:07:57] Speaker 5: Were you immediately like ooh, I don't know if that's
[1:08:00] Speaker 5: work in ann Arbor. You mentioned the receiver thing and
[1:08:02] Speaker 5: you know, not developing a thousand yard receiver. What was
[1:08:05] Speaker 5: your reaction when you heard that this was going to
[1:08:08] Speaker 5: be the move.
[1:08:12] Speaker 2: Well, for me, I'm not a member of the fan
[1:08:15] Speaker 2: base who despises Kyle Whittingham for doing what everyone else
[1:08:19] Speaker 2: should do. I have a ton of respect for him.
[1:08:21] Speaker 2: I was a member of the team way back in
[1:08:23] Speaker 2: the day when he was taking over for the first year,
[1:08:26] Speaker 2: you know, as head coach from Urban Meyer. I love
[1:08:29] Speaker 2: Kyle Whittingham. I think you know, he's one of the
[1:08:32] Speaker 2: few guys in college football that is who he says
[1:08:36] Speaker 2: he is and actually is a person you can admire
[1:08:39] Speaker 2: and that deserves a lot of the respect that he gets.
[1:08:43] Speaker 2: There was always a sense at the University of Utah, Wow,
[1:08:46] Speaker 2: we really are lucky to have a guy who's willing
[1:08:49] Speaker 2: to stay here in Salt Lake City instead of moving
[1:08:51] Speaker 2: on to one of these big time jobs. But because
[1:08:54] Speaker 2: we had he was our guy. There was also a
[1:08:57] Speaker 2: sense like, man, what could he do if he had
[1:09:01] Speaker 2: Michigan money? What could he do if he had access
[1:09:05] Speaker 2: to the recruits that USC has access to, or that
[1:09:08] Speaker 2: Oklahoma or that whoever? And now he's got access to that,
[1:09:12] Speaker 2: and all of us believe he would be a national
[1:09:14] Speaker 2: championship contender if there were no limiting factors. And there
[1:09:19] Speaker 2: are no excuses in Michigan. There are no limiting factors
[1:09:22] Speaker 2: in Michigan. So I, even though it hurts people in
[1:09:26] Speaker 2: Salt Lake City to see it and to say it,
[1:09:29] Speaker 2: I expect Kyle Whittingham, in this short term contract, to
[1:09:33] Speaker 2: be in the College Football Playoff and potentially international championship game.
[1:09:38] Speaker 2: Before he walks away obviously winning it all. When you
[1:09:41] Speaker 2: see what Kurt Signette's doing, and you see what Miami
[1:09:45] Speaker 2: is back and all this stuff, you got to get
[1:09:47] Speaker 2: a lot of luck and everything's got to break your way.
[1:09:50] Speaker 2: But all of the governors are off with Kyle Whittingham,
[1:09:54] Speaker 2: and he's got four more years, with all the money
[1:09:57] Speaker 2: he possibly needs, and with all the talent at his disposal.
[1:10:01] Speaker 2: If he's as good of a head coach as I
[1:10:03] Speaker 2: think he is, he will at the very least be
[1:10:06] Speaker 2: in a playoff and probably competing in a real way
[1:10:09] Speaker 2: for a national championship.
[1:10:12] Speaker 4: All Right, why don't we leave it there again, big
[1:10:14] Speaker 4: thanks to you, Sean O'Connell for stopping on by. We
[1:10:17] Speaker 4: will definitely be in touch as this season of Utah
[1:10:20] Speaker 4: football unfolds. We'll have to bring you back on to
[1:10:23] Speaker 4: talk about through in short order.
[1:10:25] Speaker 2: Okay, all right, looking forward to it. Thanks for having
[1:10:27] Speaker 2: me on, guys, Oh our pleasure.
[1:10:28] Speaker 3: Thanks for coming on.
[1:10:29] Speaker 4: All right, Dan, there you go. We've got Dan Wetzel,
[1:10:32] Speaker 4: We've got Sean O'Connell. Dan has not been on this
[1:10:35] Speaker 4: show and forever, Shawn's never been on this show. So
[1:10:38] Speaker 4: excited that we were able to bring both guys on
[1:10:40] Speaker 4: here to assemble the masses and talk through what exactly
[1:10:44] Speaker 4: transpired on both fronts.
[1:10:45] Speaker 3: Fascinating stuff.
[1:10:46] Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, and Michigan becomes I think more interesting. Kyle
[1:10:51] Speaker 5: Whittingham becomes more interesting, right that he has this opportunity
[1:10:55] Speaker 5: that he's never had because he's been such a life
[1:10:57] Speaker 5: for a Utah And I'm not again saying that to
[1:11:00] Speaker 5: great Utah. Utah has done a fantastic job competing at
[1:11:03] Speaker 5: basically the highest levels of the sport. But you know,
[1:11:06] Speaker 5: Michigan is one of the sort of gilded few in
[1:11:10] Speaker 5: terms of its size and reputation whatever. And they win
[1:11:12] Speaker 5: a national championship a couple of years ago, and to
[1:11:15] Speaker 5: see what he'll do, and I think Sean hit it
[1:11:16] Speaker 5: the nail on the head. He was just like, Okay,
[1:11:19] Speaker 5: how does he sort of scale the mountain of convincing
[1:11:24] Speaker 5: receivers to come to Michigan. Obviously, Bryce Underwood having a
[1:11:28] Speaker 5: terrific year this year, and you know, if he is
[1:11:30] Speaker 5: an NFL type talent at the end of things, then yes,
[1:11:33] Speaker 5: receivers will line up to play at Michigan in twenty
[1:11:36] Speaker 5: twenty seven. But yes, that is the thing that Kyle
[1:11:39] Speaker 5: Whittingham I think immediately right now is going to have
[1:11:41] Speaker 5: to prove because Michigan having a terrific defense in twenty
[1:11:45] Speaker 5: twenty six, I don't think would surprise a lot of
[1:11:47] Speaker 5: people given some of the talent that returns. Obviously what
[1:11:50] Speaker 5: Jay Hill has done at BYU, Kyle Whittingham's reputation and
[1:11:53] Speaker 5: building defense is bringing in the assistance that he brought in.
[1:11:56] Speaker 5: I don't have Michigan's schedule in front of me. I
[1:11:58] Speaker 5: know they go to Oregon and the Ohio State game
[1:12:01] Speaker 5: is in Columbus. Yeah, it's in Columbus this year, so
[1:12:04] Speaker 5: he's got his work cut out for him on the
[1:12:06] Speaker 5: road anyway.
[1:12:08] Speaker 3: But yeah, that's the idea of just.
[1:12:10] Speaker 5: Like, Okay, you showed a good amount of pop last
[1:12:12] Speaker 5: year on offense for Utah, it's a different quarterback from Michigan,
[1:12:17] Speaker 5: who I think is a more complete quarterback at his best.
[1:12:21] Speaker 5: What can you do for this quarterback of this offense
[1:12:24] Speaker 5: immediately and how can you attract a top receiver from Atlanta,
[1:12:30] Speaker 5: from Austin, from la Well that's Seattle.
[1:12:34] Speaker 4: I mean, I think a lot of what we're going
[1:12:36] Speaker 4: to see take place at Michigan completely separate from the
[1:12:40] Speaker 4: fact that Kyle Whittingham, as Sean put it out, is
[1:12:43] Speaker 4: the guy that they're bringing in as a stabilizing force
[1:12:45] Speaker 4: in many ways, the antithesis of what they had previously.
[1:12:49] Speaker 4: Will he will be judged on some level by how
[1:12:53] Speaker 4: he's able to stabilize the program and move it forward,
[1:12:56] Speaker 4: hopefully without skipping too much of a beat. But we're
[1:12:59] Speaker 4: kidding ourselves if we don't look at this from the
[1:13:01] Speaker 4: perspective solely of Bryce Underwood in his development. Yeah, and
[1:13:05] Speaker 4: that has not necessarily been the strongest for Kyle Whittingham
[1:13:10] Speaker 4: and his previous stop quarterback development.
[1:13:12] Speaker 3: But he will be great, I.
[1:13:14] Speaker 4: Think, based on how he brings Underwood along, certainly by
[1:13:18] Speaker 4: how well they do with respect to the Big Ten
[1:13:20] Speaker 4: in the college football playoffs. Just going to be super
[1:13:22] Speaker 4: fascinating to watch here. We appreciate again the time of
[1:13:26] Speaker 4: both Dan and Sean to come on here and give
[1:13:28] Speaker 4: us their insight. If you are listening to this at home,
[1:13:31] Speaker 4: I mean, look, this was a season that was not
[1:13:34] Speaker 4: short on a whole multitude of interesting angles. So if
[1:13:37] Speaker 4: there are any other items out there that you want
[1:13:40] Speaker 4: us to cover in this way, looking at a couple
[1:13:42] Speaker 4: different sides of it, you can always hit us up
[1:13:44] Speaker 4: teliverbal at gmail dot com or any of the social
[1:13:46] Speaker 4: media platforms. Would love to get your feedback on this
[1:13:50] Speaker 4: and if there are any other topics that are of
[1:13:53] Speaker 4: interest to do the full deep dive with Dan.
[1:13:56] Speaker 3: This is fun.
[1:13:57] Speaker 5: I agree by the way, Michigan schedule in twenty twenty six,
[1:14:00] Speaker 5: as the Big Ten has released its schedules and we
[1:14:02] Speaker 5: haven't talked about this a ton. They start with Western Michigan.
[1:14:05] Speaker 5: Not nothing won the MAC last year right.
[1:14:08] Speaker 4: If they lost to Western Michigan, Kyle Whittingham, see's going
[1:14:10] Speaker 4: to be warm immediately.
[1:14:12] Speaker 5: But kids too. That's that's the flash fry of a seat.
[1:14:15] Speaker 5: They host Oklahoma, who returns a good amount on both
[1:14:18] Speaker 5: sides of the ball and added a good amount through
[1:14:20] Speaker 5: the portal. They have Iowa at the end of September
[1:14:22] Speaker 5: at home and Narboro as well. There's maybe a trappiness
[1:14:25] Speaker 5: between Iowa and Penn State though there's a buy in there,
[1:14:28] Speaker 5: but it's at Minnesota between those two games.
[1:14:31] Speaker 3: Don't get me started with Minnesota, man. I had a call.
[1:14:34] Speaker 4: We did do the support call in December. We had
[1:14:36] Speaker 4: a bunch of Minnesota fans chime in and we agreed
[1:14:40] Speaker 4: that We're going to do it again next year.
[1:14:43] Speaker 3: You're ready to be hurt again. This is this is.
[1:14:46] Speaker 4: The reality that is Minnesota football. But Minnesota has also
[1:14:49] Speaker 4: been a trap game before for Nebraska, I think it's
[1:14:52] Speaker 4: fair to label it as such.
[1:14:53] Speaker 5: They have Indiana a week after Penn State, so that
[1:14:56] Speaker 5: could be a difficult one too for a new coach.
[1:14:58] Speaker 5: Oregon's on the road after Michiganigan State, so I think
[1:15:01] Speaker 5: Michigan State is a good deal.
[1:15:03] Speaker 3: Behind Michigan. You're not even done. It very sounds brutal.
[1:15:05] Speaker 5: And UCLA with their playoff caliber head coach Bob Chesney
[1:15:10] Speaker 5: sandwich between road spots at Oregon and at Ohio State.
[1:15:14] Speaker 5: So this is this is tough sledding for Kyle Whittingham
[1:15:17] Speaker 5: in year one.
[1:15:18] Speaker 3: That's really tough. We'll see what you can do. I
[1:15:21] Speaker 3: don't know. Right in Solidverbo at gmail dot com.
[1:15:23] Speaker 4: Again, if you've got topic suggestions, or if you are
[1:15:25] Speaker 4: a fan of one of these teams just college football
[1:15:28] Speaker 4: in general, and you got something to say, Yeah, we
[1:15:31] Speaker 4: read all of our messages.
[1:15:33] Speaker 3: We get many, but we read them all and we
[1:15:36] Speaker 3: would welcome your feedback.
[1:15:38] Speaker 5: As per usual, Utah's schedule is not as bad for
[1:15:40] Speaker 5: Morgan Scalley in year one, Holy War is at home.
[1:15:45] Speaker 5: They don't have Texas tech on here. They don't have
[1:15:47] Speaker 5: ASU on here, So maybe a slightly. It's at Iowa State,
[1:15:52] Speaker 5: at Colorado, at Cincinnati, at Arizona, at TCU. Those are
[1:15:56] Speaker 5: all quality teams, the very least. But you know, missing
[1:15:59] Speaker 5: as you mixing text, missing Texas tack take Holy were
[1:16:02] Speaker 5: at home.
[1:16:02] Speaker 3: I think you take you take all right?
[1:16:04] Speaker 4: Why don't we leave it there again? Big thanks to
[1:16:06] Speaker 4: our two guests of honor today Dan Rubinstein will do
[1:16:09] Speaker 4: it again later in the week. Yeah, make sure he
[1:16:11] Speaker 4: hit follow, make sure he hit subscribes that you don't
[1:16:14] Speaker 4: miss any of the episodes again. They dropped Tuesday, Thursday
[1:16:17] Speaker 4: all throughout the off season for that guy over there, Dan,
[1:16:20] Speaker 4: for myself, Tie, we'll catch you on a few days.
[1:16:22] Speaker 3: In mean Touch, they saw peace

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