# Classic: Is our mind really more than mere matter? Keith Ward and David Papinaeu

An episode of [Unbelievable?](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/267142101), 17 Mar 2026, 1 h 01 min.

Audio: https://pcr-od.streamguys1.com/the-unbelievable/20260319094137-UCR_120324_Podcast_Midroll-2454_Endroll-5106.mp3?awCollectionId=Unbelievable&awGenre=Religion+and+Spirituality&awEpisodeId=d2e175e0-2377-11f1-b510-ed593b7b5be8

In this replay we bring together Christian Philosopher & Theologian Keith Ward and atheist Professor of Philosophy from King's College London, David Papinaeu to unpack the question "Is our mind more than matter"? Ward believes that the brain is accompanied by an immaterial mind, while Papinaeu believes the brain and the mind to be one in the same - with nothing immaterial about it. What do you think? This episode originally aired on: 14 Jan 2012 Get bonus content, updates, fascinating articles, and early access to new episodes - absolutely free! Join now at www.premierunbelievable.com Subscribe to the Unbelievable? podcast: https://www.premier.plus/unbelievable Support us: https://www.premierunbelievable.com/geolink/donate Social Links Instagram: https://instagram.com/premierunbelievable Facebook: https://facebook.com/premierunbelievable Tik Tok: https://tiktok.com/@premier.unbelievable X: https://x.com/UnbelievableFE

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