# The Roy Cohn Playbook, from McCarthyism to Trump

An episode of [Fresh Air](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/214089682), 17 Sep 2026, 46 min.

Audio: https://prfx.byspotify.com/e/play.podtrac.com/npr-381444908/npr.simplecastaudio.com/49850946-31c1-4953-8129-0d718420c400/episodes/6a0f13eb-557c-43ae-ad86-45a194e33aa5/audio/128/default.mp3?awCollectionId=49850946-31c1-4953-8129-0d718420c400&awEpisodeId=6a0f13eb-557c-43ae-ad86-45a194e33aa5&feed=jBsBZBHh&t=podcast&e=nx-s1-5973050&p=381444908&d=2745&size=43922999

In a biography of Roy Cohn, Kai Bird looks at how the lawyer taught President Trump to deny, delay, attack, sue and countersue, never admit defeat, side step paying bills and avoid a paper trail. His book, with co-author Susan Goldmark, is American Scoundrel. He spoke with Terry Gross. Also, Ken Tucker reflects on three of Dolly Parton’s performances that he says demonstrate her range and her unique takes on romance and heartbreak. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy

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