# .22 LR Small Bore Soup to Nuts rolls on

An episode of [Gun Talk](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/190516844), 17 May 2026, 44 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/71959412/051726guntalkc.mp3

JJ Reddick of Federal Premium discussed the brand’s 100+ year history with rimfire ammo and the huge variety of loads available across platforms. Marty Van Der Heiden of Volquartsen Firearms shares the company’s 50-year evolution from custom barrels to premium precision .22 rifles and pistols known for accuracy, lightweight carbon-fiber barrels, and excellent triggers. The rise in popularity of double-stack 1911 pistols as fun range guns. Gun Talk 05.17.26 Hour 3 Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.

## Transcript

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[0:14] Speaker 2: All right, welcome back to gun Talk. I'm your guest host,
[0:17] Speaker 2: Ryan Gresham filling in for Thomas. Week is on the
[0:19] Speaker 2: road and we are doing the show from gun Talk headquarters,
[0:24] Speaker 2: actually so down here in South Louisiana at Range Ready Studios.
[0:28] Speaker 2: Range Ready Studios is the part of this place that
[0:33] Speaker 2: puts on events. We put on classes that are open
[0:35] Speaker 2: to the public. Classes. Yep, you can come here. You
[0:38] Speaker 2: can train with us. You can learn to shoot pistols
[0:41] Speaker 2: and rifles and a bunch of other stuff and get
[0:44] Speaker 2: real proficient with it with our buddy Chris Serina, who
[0:47] Speaker 2: runs the training program. But we also put on media events.
[0:50] Speaker 2: We put on product launches. Obviously, you guys know, we
[0:53] Speaker 2: work with so many different companies within the world of guns,
[0:57] Speaker 2: and we have a bunch of them here for an
[0:59] Speaker 2: event this week. It's called plink Up Palooza, which really
[1:02] Speaker 2: centers around rim fires. So twenty two's and even seventeen
[1:07] Speaker 2: hm rs and some you know some other stuff. Twenty
[1:09] Speaker 2: two mags. Rim fires is where, for a lot of
[1:12] Speaker 2: us where you start your shooting journey. You learn to
[1:15] Speaker 2: shoot on those rim fires because they're low recoil, they're accurate,
[1:20] Speaker 2: they're fun to shoot, they're low noise. And I think
[1:23] Speaker 2: for a lot of us, is we come back, we
[1:26] Speaker 2: circle back to those rim fires because they're just there's
[1:30] Speaker 2: kind of it's where we started. Since JJ, I'm gonna
[1:34] Speaker 2: bring you in because we've got the man, the myth,
[1:36] Speaker 2: the legend, and you guys listening may not realize, but
[1:40] Speaker 2: you're you're talking to a legend right now, or listen
[1:42] Speaker 2: to a legend. JJ. He is communications with Federal Premium YEP,
[1:48] Speaker 2: which you know. Look, let's be honest. We always say,
[1:51] Speaker 2: if you work for an AMMO company in the in
[1:54] Speaker 2: the world of guns, you're everybody's buddy because you've got
[1:57] Speaker 2: the sauce man you make what makes this stuff happen.
[2:01] Speaker 3: Yes, so I am the communications manager of the PR manager.
[2:04] Speaker 3: So I work with all the media folks, editors, writers, influencers,
[2:09] Speaker 3: TV hosts.
[2:10] Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, whatever the heck we are these days YouTubers. Yes,
[2:16] Speaker 2: Federal Premium one of the bigger AMO companies out there. Yes,
[2:21] Speaker 2: you guys really do it all. I mean you do shotshell,
[2:25] Speaker 2: you do center fire, you do pistol, you do rifle,
[2:28] Speaker 2: and you do a ton of rim fire.
[2:30] Speaker 3: Yes, So Federal Ammunition, that's that's our name as far
[2:35] Speaker 3: as our website goes it, it's Federal Premium. But you know,
[2:39] Speaker 3: the premium category of ammunition actually started in the late seventies,
[2:44] Speaker 3: but we've always just been federal, Federal cartridge, sure, and
[2:47] Speaker 3: then Federal ammunition. So we just call ourselves federal, you know. Okay,
[2:52] Speaker 3: But I think one of the biggest things that you
[2:54] Speaker 3: were hitting on with rim fire is just and why
[2:57] Speaker 3: I think rimfires is so popular and also you know,
[3:01] Speaker 3: deserves its own event like plankt Palooza would be just
[3:05] Speaker 3: how many platforms it's on. I sat in the classroom
[3:08] Speaker 3: this morning, you know, and people were bringing out ar
[3:11] Speaker 3: fifteen platforms, pistol platforms. You know, in the past, you
[3:16] Speaker 3: would have rim fire was always either a bolt gun
[3:20] Speaker 3: or you know, mostly a rifle. That's why twenty two
[3:23] Speaker 3: long rifle. But now in the last well ten fifteen years,
[3:28] Speaker 3: how many platforms, how many different platforms there are? Sure
[3:32] Speaker 3: that you can shoot it from and also you can buy,
[3:36] Speaker 3: like for Smith and Wesson, you can buy a handgun
[3:38] Speaker 3: that's in in twenty two long rifle and then a
[3:41] Speaker 3: handgun that's in nine millimeters the same handgun. It's this
[3:44] Speaker 3: chamber of different so you can train, you know, can
[3:46] Speaker 3: train room fire and then and then carry with center fire.
[3:49] Speaker 3: So that's why I think rimfire is so is so popular.
[3:53] Speaker 3: Just how many more platforms there were than when it
[3:56] Speaker 3: first started, one hundred.
[3:58] Speaker 2: Sure in Ammo for really, for rim fire, Ammo is
[4:03] Speaker 2: the heart of this stuff because the variety is wild,
[4:08] Speaker 2: and I think that it's fair to say that you
[4:13] Speaker 2: could do a lot more things with this. Amma. You've
[4:16] Speaker 2: got super Sonic, you've got sub Sonic, you've got shorts,
[4:19] Speaker 2: you've got you know, ratshot, I guess is one little
[4:22] Speaker 2: weird category. But there's something in the performance of rim fire,
[4:28] Speaker 2: and you have to find what your gun likes. Is
[4:30] Speaker 2: that fair to say?
[4:31] Speaker 4: Ah?
[4:31] Speaker 3: Yes, definitely if you look at rim fire as a whole,
[4:36] Speaker 3: That's what's so cool about rimfire is that, well, Ammo,
[4:41] Speaker 3: in general, there's a cartridge, but then there's all the
[4:44] Speaker 3: components of the cartridge. Sure, that's how the cartridge is loaded,
[4:47] Speaker 3: so the different velocities the cartridge is loaded to the
[4:49] Speaker 3: different bullets. You know, you can have flatnose bullets, you
[4:53] Speaker 3: can have hallow point bullets, you can have segmenting hallow
[4:55] Speaker 3: point bullets, you can have coated bullets, and then different
[4:59] Speaker 3: grain weights. With all that, they're all intended for different purposes.
[5:03] Speaker 3: And ammunition as a whole is like that, especially center
[5:07] Speaker 3: fire and handgun, but rim fire, you really see all
[5:12] Speaker 3: those various differences.
[5:14] Speaker 2: Changing them can change what you're really doing with.
[5:17] Speaker 3: It, right, absolutely, absolutely, and so Federal Ammunition was we
[5:22] Speaker 3: just celebrated, well not just but we celebrated our one
[5:25] Speaker 3: hundredth anniversary four years ago, so we're one hundred and
[5:29] Speaker 3: four now. And rim fire came on right away, like
[5:34] Speaker 3: we started with shotshell and then in nineteen twenty two.
[5:37] Speaker 3: Rimfire came in nineteen twenty three, so we have been
[5:40] Speaker 3: producing it for over one hundred years. And a lot
[5:43] Speaker 3: of those same loads, a lot of the loads like
[5:46] Speaker 3: you referred to the cbs or the shorts, you know,
[5:50] Speaker 3: the longs and then the long rifle, you know, those different cartridges,
[5:55] Speaker 3: those were all there and started in nineteen twenty three
[5:59] Speaker 3: and we are low. Some of the same ones still
[6:02] Speaker 3: for one hundred years, so I mean we still we
[6:05] Speaker 3: still have all those a variety. But but for federal
[6:09] Speaker 3: you really do have you know, your your your base loads,
[6:13] Speaker 3: you're you're champion seven forty five loads in that kind
[6:16] Speaker 3: of thing. If you really want to go into the
[6:19] Speaker 3: huge variety of rim fire and the history of rim fire,
[6:23] Speaker 3: then that CCI is the rim Fire King. Sure you know,
[6:28] Speaker 3: we can talk CCI in a different episode if you want.
[6:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, yeah. CCI kind of a sister company, yeah,
[6:33] Speaker 2: sister companies. Yes, yeah, I mean you guys are definitely
[6:37] Speaker 2: have the knowledge and the history with rim fire. After
[6:42] Speaker 2: the break, I want to talk about there's a lot
[6:44] Speaker 2: of new things in the way in talking about projectiles
[6:48] Speaker 2: being loaded in rim fires that kind of changes the
[6:51] Speaker 2: way we think about what a rim fire can do.
[6:54] Speaker 2: We're going to talk about that right after this.
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[9:44] Speaker 2: Hey, welcome back to gun Talk. I'm your guest host,
[9:46] Speaker 2: Ryan Gresha. I'm filling in for Tom this week, and
[9:49] Speaker 2: we are at an event called Plinkapalooza and we're talking
[9:52] Speaker 2: with a bunch of different companies about rim fires. And
[9:54] Speaker 2: my guest right now is JJ re Reich from Federal JJ.
[9:58] Speaker 2: We were talking before the break about, you know, the
[10:01] Speaker 2: in the old days, even I'm not that old, I guess,
[10:05] Speaker 2: but just going back a couple decades, when you think
[10:07] Speaker 2: about shooting twenty two shoot shooting rim fires, you know,
[10:11] Speaker 2: you go, I'll go grab a brick and go out
[10:13] Speaker 2: there and load it up and shoot it. And I mean, honestly,
[10:17] Speaker 2: you probably didn't think a whole lot about the bullet.
[10:20] Speaker 2: It was like, Okay, we're gonna go shoot soup cans,
[10:25] Speaker 2: or we're gonna go maybe do some hunting, some squirrel hunting
[10:28] Speaker 2: or whatever. But it was kind of like, yeah, I
[10:31] Speaker 2: mean whatever, it's supersonic or hypersonic or whatever the marketing said.
[10:35] Speaker 2: But it was kind of just like loaded up and
[10:36] Speaker 2: go for it. But I feel in the last i
[10:39] Speaker 2: don't know, five or plus years, there's stuff that I'm like, okay,
[10:43] Speaker 2: wait a minute, you guys are loading stuff that's self
[10:45] Speaker 2: defense loads, hunting loads. There's a lot of new changes.
[10:48] Speaker 3: Yes, so the self defense, which at this event we're
[10:53] Speaker 3: gonna be shooting ballistic gel blocks. That's pretty cool.
[10:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's gonna be amazing.
[10:56] Speaker 3: They can't we see it. Yeah, So there are some
[11:00] Speaker 3: people who want to carry twenty two long rifle or
[11:04] Speaker 3: a twenty two mag and it's either because of strength
[11:08] Speaker 3: limitations in their hands, or you know, wanting something that's
[11:13] Speaker 3: more comfortable to shoot things like that. So we wanted
[11:17] Speaker 3: to give options for that. So our self defense option
[11:20] Speaker 3: is what's called punch. And so the twenty two bullet
[11:24] Speaker 3: on that would be a solid bullet. It's a nickel plated,
[11:28] Speaker 3: solid bullet. It's not going to expand much, but it's
[11:30] Speaker 3: going to get your penetration. So yeah, so you want
[11:34] Speaker 3: for any self defense load, you want something that opens
[11:38] Speaker 3: up or mushroom so to speak, that actually has that
[11:41] Speaker 3: expansion to create a larger wound channel. And then you
[11:45] Speaker 3: also want depth to make sure you get into far
[11:49] Speaker 3: enough into the vitals. You are limited with room fire
[11:53] Speaker 3: obviously with size, sure, so you can have there's two
[12:00] Speaker 3: schools of thought there. You either want the expansion or
[12:03] Speaker 3: you want the penetration depth. So the Federal punch that
[12:08] Speaker 3: is a hard bullet, nickel plated, that's going to give
[12:11] Speaker 3: you the penetration. If you want something more of an expansion,
[12:15] Speaker 3: then you want to go to federal sister company or
[12:17] Speaker 3: affiliate company CCI and they have something called uppercut and
[12:21] Speaker 3: that that's a too long rifle that will do the
[12:23] Speaker 3: expansion on that.
[12:24] Speaker 2: Okay, different bullets, different designs, exactly different and different, two
[12:29] Speaker 2: different schools of thought.
[12:30] Speaker 3: Sure, for what you want a defensive.
[12:33] Speaker 2: Is there any idea of what punch does into gelatin?
[12:36] Speaker 3: Typically, Yeah, it's just going to punch it. It's just
[12:39] Speaker 3: going to get it's just going to give you the
[12:41] Speaker 3: the the penetration depth.
[12:44] Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, So I mean, and people will hear this
[12:47] Speaker 2: if they're into this, if you carry, like, oh my gosh,
[12:51] Speaker 2: twenty two is for carrying. But I mean, the fact
[12:53] Speaker 2: of the matter is it's people say it all the time,
[12:56] Speaker 2: but it is true. Better to have a gun than
[13:00] Speaker 2: not have a gun when you need something, when something
[13:02] Speaker 2: bad is happening. And there are a lot of very
[13:06] Speaker 2: small twenty twos that might be a little pocket gun
[13:09] Speaker 2: that's kind of a maybe it's not your normal, everyday,
[13:12] Speaker 2: every day carry situation, but it's an option. And like
[13:16] Speaker 2: you said, there are people who they're more comfortable with that.
[13:19] Speaker 2: I'd rather you carry that with good amo like punch
[13:23] Speaker 2: than carry nothing. You know, you're thinking about your loved ones,
[13:26] Speaker 2: your your your mom, or your or your wife or
[13:28] Speaker 2: whatever that might be. Like, hey, listen, this is something
[13:31] Speaker 2: they are comfortable shooting. They can put all the shots
[13:35] Speaker 2: on target. Okay, that's great.
[13:38] Speaker 8: Yep.
[13:39] Speaker 3: If it doesn't have the target, it's not going to
[13:40] Speaker 3: matter anyway.
[13:41] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great.
[13:42] Speaker 7: You know.
[13:42] Speaker 3: So our job isn't to help people make that decision.
[13:45] Speaker 3: Our job is to give them the options and the
[13:47] Speaker 3: products that would work for them in the situation that
[13:51] Speaker 3: they decide to do. So, you know, you'd want a
[13:55] Speaker 3: personal defense bullet for that application. If you're varmin hunting
[13:58] Speaker 3: with a twenty two l R, then you want a
[14:00] Speaker 3: varnment bullet. Now, a varnment bullet is going to be
[14:02] Speaker 3: something that really just kind of blows up. You know,
[14:04] Speaker 3: they say explosive performance. What that means is that bullet
[14:09] Speaker 3: is constructed as soon as it hits it is to
[14:12] Speaker 3: just break apart. Right, So if you are you know,
[14:16] Speaker 3: varmint is prairie dog so to speak, or anything that
[14:19] Speaker 3: you know.
[14:20] Speaker 2: And that's really designed to reduce ricochet, right, Well, it's well,
[14:25] Speaker 2: actually it's it's more designed to to have that deadly
[14:29] Speaker 2: explosion on that.
[14:31] Speaker 3: See on a small avarm, something that you're not going
[14:34] Speaker 3: to eat right, something that you just want to die quickly.
[14:38] Speaker 3: And you know if you if you're trying to squirrel
[14:42] Speaker 3: hunt then and you want the meat, then you're you're
[14:46] Speaker 3: going to be using more of a small game a
[14:48] Speaker 3: bullet that's going to have the traditional exension.
[14:51] Speaker 2: I told you you got to you got to pick
[14:53] Speaker 2: the right ambo for the job. Yes, so if.
[14:55] Speaker 3: You so, if you're squirrel hunting and you picked like
[14:57] Speaker 3: a full metal jacket bullet or a target bullet, it's
[15:00] Speaker 3: not it'll hit the squirrel and go right the zip
[15:02] Speaker 3: right through the squirrel, and it's not going to have
[15:05] Speaker 3: it's not going to release any of its ballistic potential.
[15:09] Speaker 3: It's not going to release.
[15:10] Speaker 2: Chances that you might not harvest that game. You might
[15:13] Speaker 2: lose it.
[15:13] Speaker 3: Right, you want something that's going to you know, give
[15:17] Speaker 3: that shock or you know give that Yeah, so it
[15:21] Speaker 3: expands a little bit and kills the squirrel right away,
[15:24] Speaker 3: just zip through it and squirrel runs away and guns
[15:26] Speaker 3: with a hole. You know, find it right, So you
[15:29] Speaker 3: don't want to shoot target ammunition at something that you
[15:32] Speaker 3: want to you know that you're hunting and you want
[15:34] Speaker 3: to eat. You don't want to shoot varm and ammunition
[15:36] Speaker 3: at that because then the whole thing is going to
[15:39] Speaker 3: be kind of basically exploded explosion.
[15:41] Speaker 2: Well, did you there's a trend right now in super
[15:45] Speaker 2: accurate and even sort of long range rim fire, Yes,
[15:49] Speaker 2: long range twenty two?
[15:50] Speaker 8: Yes.
[15:51] Speaker 2: Are you guys doing some loads for that type of stuff?
[15:54] Speaker 3: Yeah, so we you know, we do have some competition
[15:58] Speaker 3: ammunition that we for pistol, because pistol is a big
[16:01] Speaker 3: thing for competition. The longer range rifle type of stuff
[16:08] Speaker 3: we always say are green Tag. So, uh, Standard velocity
[16:13] Speaker 3: is a rim fire around that has been very popular
[16:17] Speaker 3: with people who you know, shoot for accuracy, and it's
[16:22] Speaker 3: the standard velocity. I think it's I feel stupid for
[16:26] Speaker 3: not knowing off the top of my head, but I
[16:28] Speaker 3: think it's twelve hundred twelve Okay, your standard velocity. So
[16:31] Speaker 3: that's the muzzle velocity.
[16:34] Speaker 2: And then green tag.
[16:36] Speaker 3: The cool thing about green Tag and I'm talking CCI.
[16:39] Speaker 2: By the way.
[16:40] Speaker 3: Okay, so with green Tag, basically standard velocity came out
[16:45] Speaker 3: and then they do a bunch of when you're loading
[16:49] Speaker 3: it to test to see where it is in that
[16:51] Speaker 3: velocity spec because you have to hit a certain velocity
[16:55] Speaker 3: spec to be Sammy speck to be sure, the right sure,
[16:58] Speaker 3: the right cartridge to be it's out. But anyway, or
[17:01] Speaker 3: you have your own internal velocity spec specs that you
[17:06] Speaker 3: want to meet when you're creating the consistency of the
[17:08] Speaker 3: am what you want.
[17:09] Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to have consistency, especially when you're talking
[17:13] Speaker 2: about target shooting in accuracy. I mean because especially in
[17:18] Speaker 2: the accuracy that's expected from a competitor. Changes in velocity,
[17:23] Speaker 2: you know, a big deviation can can make the difference.
[17:27] Speaker 3: Absolutely, absolutely, So Santa velocity is always great. It's got
[17:30] Speaker 3: a really nice uh range of the specifications that it
[17:34] Speaker 3: can hit. But green tags are a lot smaller. So
[17:37] Speaker 3: the specification of hitting green tags is a lot smaller.
[17:40] Speaker 3: And really when they're loading centatard velocity and they're and
[17:44] Speaker 3: they're testing lots and a lot of ammunition is getting
[17:48] Speaker 3: into that smaller range of of of of specifications. Then
[17:55] Speaker 3: they were the olden days. They just took this green
[17:57] Speaker 3: sticker and slapped it on that and then they would
[18:00] Speaker 3: send it out and so then you'd have your standard
[18:02] Speaker 3: velocity and then you'd have your standard velocity with the
[18:04] Speaker 3: green sticker and so then they just started calling a
[18:06] Speaker 3: green green sticker a green tag, and that's that's how
[18:09] Speaker 3: green tag came about. But that would be CCI's best
[18:12] Speaker 3: ammunition for for you know, shooting longer range.
[18:16] Speaker 2: What about just are there any tips or or or
[18:20] Speaker 2: maybe perhaps product lines when you're talking about accuracy, because
[18:24] Speaker 2: I think people think twenty two is okay, we're plinking,
[18:27] Speaker 2: we're shooting cans or whatever, But like, what if the
[18:31] Speaker 2: accuracy expectations would you really get down to an accurate
[18:35] Speaker 2: gun in a in a a good rest. I mean,
[18:38] Speaker 2: what could somebody expect to shoot and maybe what would
[18:41] Speaker 2: be some good options for them?
[18:42] Speaker 3: I mean everyone's chasing that you know one minute, you
[18:46] Speaker 3: know one m o A or that one inch group,
[18:50] Speaker 3: Like that's even with really non fire too. But rin
[18:54] Speaker 3: fiber has always been kind of like a fifty yard
[18:57] Speaker 3: type of thing, but now one hundred yards not not uncommon,
[19:01] Speaker 3: and even longer it's not uncommon. You know, we talked
[19:05] Speaker 3: about your standard ammunition, federal ammunition, and you talked about
[19:10] Speaker 3: the premium ammunition, so premium ammunition. A difference between standard
[19:15] Speaker 3: and premium is more premium components. So maybe a nickel
[19:19] Speaker 3: plated case you know, a better copper plated bullet, you know,
[19:26] Speaker 3: better more consistent powders. You know, more of the premium
[19:29] Speaker 3: components goes into it goes into the premium line of ammunition.
[19:34] Speaker 3: It's the same with center fires, the same with with
[19:37] Speaker 3: with handgun, and it's the same with rim fire. So
[19:40] Speaker 3: if you are trying to get more accuracy or more consistency,
[19:44] Speaker 3: then you always want to spend a little bit more
[19:46] Speaker 3: to get the more premium component ammunition.
[19:49] Speaker 2: I mean, you think about it. I mean one of
[19:51] Speaker 2: the biggest sports in the Olympics is shooting, and I
[19:54] Speaker 2: mean rim fires. That's something that we think about what's
[19:59] Speaker 2: possible with sure, Yeah, it could be incredibly accurate. Yeah.
[20:04] Speaker 3: So and Federal's history did help with all of that
[20:09] Speaker 3: twenty two long rifle in the Olympics really, yes, in
[20:12] Speaker 3: the nineties and eighties and nineties, I believe, and that's
[20:15] Speaker 3: how gold medal came about.
[20:17] Speaker 2: So I wanted you to bring that up because that's
[20:19] Speaker 2: one that when we're siting in and we're getting all
[20:21] Speaker 2: this stuff ready. Chris Sarno, who you know, I end
[20:25] Speaker 2: up tasking him with a lot of this. Yes, he says, well,
[20:28] Speaker 2: let me see if this gun really shoots and he
[20:30] Speaker 2: loads that in the gun.
[20:31] Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so you know, we we that's the whole
[20:36] Speaker 3: eighties nineties with the in the Olympic gold medals that
[20:40] Speaker 3: we helped to win and that kind of thing. That
[20:42] Speaker 3: really helped get out room fire and improved and upgraded,
[20:49] Speaker 3: and it helped with that premium you know, branding for that.
[20:55] Speaker 3: But again this is for different components, different testing procedures,
[20:58] Speaker 3: different accuracy specifications with the engineering team all that. So
[21:04] Speaker 3: it's really cool to be part of that history too.
[21:06] Speaker 2: It's amazing JJ. So what's your first memory of shooting
[21:11] Speaker 2: a rim fire?
[21:12] Speaker 3: First memory of shooting a rim fire? Well, I mean
[21:19] Speaker 3: for me, it's like that's what we all passed our
[21:22] Speaker 3: hunter safety test with. Yeah, and we're true twelve, you know,
[21:26] Speaker 3: so I know, I definitely, I guess. I mean getting
[21:30] Speaker 3: my hunter Safety certificate when I was twelve was a
[21:33] Speaker 3: huge deal for me. I remember having to go into
[21:37] Speaker 3: the classrooms.
[21:38] Speaker 2: It's like that big first certification. Yeah, you're you know,
[21:41] Speaker 2: I think my dad even dropped me off by myself,
[21:44] Speaker 2: and it's you're in this room full of some kids
[21:46] Speaker 2: and some adults and you've got this this grown up
[21:49] Speaker 2: teacher and you're thinking, I got to pay attention because one,
[21:53] Speaker 2: you know, you want to pass it because you want
[21:54] Speaker 2: to be able to go hunting or whatever. Right, But
[21:57] Speaker 2: it's just it's a whole lot of fun. JJ, thanks
[22:00] Speaker 2: for being with us. Is fun, I mean Plinka Palooza.
[22:03] Speaker 2: We're reinvigorating the fun of rim fires at this event
[22:07] Speaker 2: and we'll be back with more gun Talk more rim
[22:10] Speaker 2: fire talk right after this. Hey, welcome back to gun Talk.
[22:24] Speaker 2: I'm your guest host, Ryan Gresh. I'm filling in for
[22:26] Speaker 2: Tom this week. He is on the road, but kind
[22:29] Speaker 2: of so are we. We're actually recording this show at
[22:33] Speaker 2: the gun Talk headquarters and we're putting on an event
[22:36] Speaker 2: called Plinka Paloosa, all centered around rim fire. So that's
[22:39] Speaker 2: kind of the subject of the day. And we'll be
[22:42] Speaker 2: posting some of these videos online, so make sure you
[22:45] Speaker 2: follow gun Talk on YouTube, Facebook, x Instagram. We're actually
[22:51] Speaker 2: filming this episode of gun Talk and so we'll be
[22:54] Speaker 2: posting some of these interviews and clips. You guys can
[22:57] Speaker 2: go check that out. But they can't keep us down, guys.
[23:00] Speaker 2: You just keep subscribing, keep following, keep ringing that bell.
[23:04] Speaker 2: One of the things that that the YouTubers say these days,
[23:06] Speaker 2: you know, do that and then you'll be able to
[23:08] Speaker 2: stay in touch with us. But our guest up on
[23:11] Speaker 2: the show right now, Marty vander Heyden, did I say
[23:14] Speaker 2: it sort of right?
[23:15] Speaker 8: Yes?
[23:15] Speaker 2: From Voltcourts and Firearms and Volcourts and is for people
[23:20] Speaker 2: who love really nice rim fires. They know you guys
[23:25] Speaker 2: right right yep. But you know it's maybe it's like
[23:28] Speaker 2: it's a smaller company, not maybe the names of like
[23:31] Speaker 2: a Smith and Wesson or some of those other of
[23:33] Speaker 2: those guys out there, but you've kind of become this
[23:38] Speaker 2: name in the gun culture when they say, okay, now
[23:41] Speaker 2: I'm ready to move up to something real special, you're
[23:44] Speaker 2: one of the guys that they think of. So talk
[23:46] Speaker 2: about where did Vulcourtson start and where is it now?
[23:50] Speaker 9: So it started back in like nineteen seventy four. We've
[23:53] Speaker 9: been in business about fifty two years. Tom Volcourson started
[23:57] Speaker 9: at what he started out as just bluing and tinkering
[24:01] Speaker 9: with guns and stocks and upgrading some things on his
[24:05] Speaker 9: friend's stuff, and then he got into actually, believe it
[24:10] Speaker 9: or not, revolvers and he was doing a lot of
[24:13] Speaker 9: revolvers and if like I said, if you ever see
[24:16] Speaker 9: one or find one, I would grab.
[24:17] Speaker 2: It of courts and revolver.
[24:19] Speaker 9: Yes, and uh great, I mean it was they're prestige.
[24:24] Speaker 9: I mean they're they're awesome. Uh So when he got
[24:27] Speaker 9: into that, but then he started messing around with twenty
[24:29] Speaker 9: two's out of just one of his buddies that he
[24:32] Speaker 9: had one and just wasn't working. So he started working
[24:34] Speaker 9: on it.
[24:35] Speaker 7: He got it.
[24:36] Speaker 9: Going and they were like, next thing, you know, another
[24:39] Speaker 9: buddy would drop one off, another buddy would drop one off,
[24:42] Speaker 9: and that's how it just started kind of going. And uh,
[24:45] Speaker 9: it's kind of a funny story I know. Scott tells
[24:48] Speaker 9: me all the time about Tom went over to Brown Els,
[24:51] Speaker 9: which is close by us. It's like two and a
[24:53] Speaker 9: half hours from you.
[24:54] Speaker 2: You guys are in Isoland, Yepka.
[24:56] Speaker 9: And he told I believe it was Frank Brown.
[25:00] Speaker 2: Owl or yeah, probably Frank.
[25:03] Speaker 9: Yeah it was either Frank or even Frank's dad or
[25:05] Speaker 9: something back then, and said, this is what I'm going
[25:07] Speaker 9: to do, and this is my barrel I want to
[25:10] Speaker 9: go with. And they're like, there's no way you're going
[25:12] Speaker 9: to be able to sell that.
[25:13] Speaker 3: For that price.
[25:14] Speaker 9: He's like, well, we're going to try and we've come
[25:18] Speaker 9: along the ways then, So.
[25:20] Speaker 2: What was the what was the first barrel for?
[25:23] Speaker 9: It was just for a ruger, just a standard ten
[25:26] Speaker 9: to twenty two rigger replacement barrel.
[25:28] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I thought. Yep, So make it started
[25:31] Speaker 2: out making barrels for twenty twos. What was it about
[25:34] Speaker 2: twenty twos? Because you guys are known as this twenty
[25:37] Speaker 2: two rifles and pistols. You guys make these fancy twenty twos.
[25:40] Speaker 2: Why twenty two's.
[25:42] Speaker 9: Because nobody at that point, nobody really back then, nobody
[25:46] Speaker 9: really dealt with anything with the twenty twos. You just
[25:48] Speaker 9: want to I think it was Sears or Montgomery Wards
[25:52] Speaker 9: or right coast to coast and just picked one up
[25:55] Speaker 9: and you know, on the farm or something like that.
[25:57] Speaker 2: But it was just a sledgehammer.
[25:59] Speaker 7: You didn't know.
[26:00] Speaker 9: Nobody. Yeah, nobody got into those much. And so Tom
[26:03] Speaker 9: was like, well, if nobody's involved in it, we should
[26:05] Speaker 9: get involved in it.
[26:06] Speaker 2: So yeah, find the white space. I like it. So,
[26:10] Speaker 2: you know, fast forward. I mean, you guys over the
[26:13] Speaker 2: years have made a lot of things. What do you
[26:15] Speaker 2: what are you kind of known for these days?
[26:18] Speaker 9: We're still known for like our accuracy, precision, everything like that. Lightweight.
[26:24] Speaker 9: We were like one of some of the first companies
[26:26] Speaker 9: ever to come out with like a corveron fiber barrel
[26:28] Speaker 9: to lighten everything up. So we're more of like on
[26:31] Speaker 9: target precision accuracy, but we do we have a lot
[26:35] Speaker 9: of people that shoot competition with all of our rifle
[26:37] Speaker 9: rifles and pistols.
[26:39] Speaker 2: Is it more on that the accuracy side or is
[26:41] Speaker 2: it more on the speed side? There is a little bit.
[26:44] Speaker 9: Majority was all on accuracy and then the speed came
[26:47] Speaker 9: because of the lightweight stuff that we did. We different uppers,
[26:51] Speaker 9: different barrels, lightweight barrels. We have good triggers, polls and accuracy,
[26:56] Speaker 9: you know, stuff like that which helps with accuracy. You know,
[26:59] Speaker 9: two pound, two quarter pound trigger pole, Chris trigger pole.
[27:02] Speaker 9: So I mean that helps with everything with acuracy and speed.
[27:07] Speaker 2: What type of accuracy should someone expect out of their
[27:10] Speaker 2: twenty two rifle?
[27:11] Speaker 9: It'd be like subma really something like that yep.
[27:15] Speaker 2: Which was in the past was kind of like unheard of, right, right,
[27:18] Speaker 2: A lot of it back in the past was you know,
[27:21] Speaker 2: two and a half three minute of squirrel sort of yes, yeah,
[27:25] Speaker 2: if he's a big.
[27:26] Speaker 9: Squirrel, if he's a big squirrel, aim for the.
[27:28] Speaker 2: Body, yeah, center of mass. Yes, yes, Well, Marty, you're
[27:33] Speaker 2: also someone who builds these guns and building this level
[27:39] Speaker 2: of gun. There's a lot that goes into it. There's
[27:42] Speaker 2: a lot of stuff that's kind of behind the scenes
[27:45] Speaker 2: or inside that people maybe can't see. What goes into
[27:49] Speaker 2: building these guns. What are some of the things that
[27:52] Speaker 2: maybe you guys do differently.
[27:54] Speaker 9: So we're actually and were still a small company I
[27:57] Speaker 9: mean we're just under thirty employees there. So the way
[28:01] Speaker 9: I look at it is every gun I build, I'm
[28:03] Speaker 9: building for that person. I'm not building it for, you know,
[28:08] Speaker 9: to go out on a rack at a store. It's
[28:11] Speaker 9: actually going for our customers. So it takes a lot
[28:14] Speaker 9: of pride, I believe. And you know, we only have
[28:17] Speaker 9: probably I think five builders, So we have two that
[28:24] Speaker 9: do pistols mainly and three that do rifle and so
[28:28] Speaker 9: everyone we're making it for that one person. So we
[28:31] Speaker 9: take a little bit of pride into what we do. So,
[28:34] Speaker 9: I mean we still do some hand polishing of barrels
[28:36] Speaker 9: and stuff like that, so everything looks good. We you know,
[28:41] Speaker 9: laser and grave stuff. So when we're putting it together,
[28:44] Speaker 9: we're putting it together not only for that person, but
[28:47] Speaker 9: we're putting it together for us because we're standing behind it.
[28:50] Speaker 9: We know who makes that gun. So every gun gets
[28:53] Speaker 9: sent out gets a card who built it. That way,
[28:55] Speaker 9: we know exactly everything about that.
[28:58] Speaker 2: There's a lot of there's a lot of pride that
[28:59] Speaker 2: goes into that.
[29:00] Speaker 8: Yeah.
[29:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, tell me about the people that work there, because
[29:04] Speaker 2: it seems like that's kind of a specialized piece of
[29:08] Speaker 2: knowledge to know how to build these guns that are
[29:10] Speaker 2: not just like you said, they're not just squirting out
[29:14] Speaker 2: a gun, you know, once a minute or something like that.
[29:16] Speaker 2: These are there's a little bit more care that goes
[29:18] Speaker 2: into these.
[29:19] Speaker 9: Yeah. And the nice thing about like every gun that
[29:21] Speaker 9: we do build the person that's building them. We're literally
[29:25] Speaker 9: putting the bolt together ourselves. We're putting the trigger guard
[29:28] Speaker 9: together ourselves. We'll put grabbing the barrel, we're posishing the barrel,
[29:31] Speaker 9: assembling everything ourselves. So we have a really good team
[29:35] Speaker 9: out there that puts them together. Courtney Snyder, Dan Overmoll,
[29:39] Speaker 9: Tim Cook, and Chad Huffman, I mean we have a
[29:41] Speaker 9: great team. We work together, so I mean positive attitudes
[29:45] Speaker 9: and I sometimes we bounce things off each other too.
[29:49] Speaker 9: About what we could do better and stuff like that.
[29:51] Speaker 2: We'll be right back with more gun Talk.
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[30:31] Speaker 2: have in a fight.
[30:31] Speaker 8: Gun talks should be in your podcast feed. Check out
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[30:36] Speaker 2: What's it like to be blown up?
[30:37] Speaker 5: You know if it's like C four, it's almost like
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[30:42] Speaker 7: Yeah, we talk about that too.
[30:43] Speaker 3: On your cross hairs, I like a thin crosshair.
[30:47] Speaker 8: Ang, you're really dating yourself by calling things crosshairs. You're
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[31:37] Speaker 10: firearm related topics. Whether it's new guns, training tips, gunsmithing, competition, shooting,
[31:46] Speaker 10: self defense, or gun rights news, we cover it all.
[31:49] Speaker 10: Visit gun talk dot com. That's gun talk dot com.
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[32:37] Speaker 2: Hey, welcome back to gun talk you guys brought some
[32:40] Speaker 2: sent some interesting guns to this event for Plinka Palooza.
[32:45] Speaker 2: I was telling you they were shooting a variety of them.
[32:48] Speaker 2: Can you talk about you know, we kind of have
[32:50] Speaker 2: the little bitty car being guy, we have the big
[32:53] Speaker 2: seventeen mars. Talk about those guns specifically.
[32:57] Speaker 9: So we brought Do you want to talk about the pistols? Yeah,
[33:01] Speaker 9: everything we brought. We brought a four and a half Mamba,
[33:04] Speaker 9: which are four and a half inch barrel with a
[33:05] Speaker 9: compensator on it. The nice thing about it has pick
[33:09] Speaker 9: rail on it, so it has iron sights on it,
[33:10] Speaker 9: but you can always add a red dot onto that.
[33:13] Speaker 9: So we have our lightweight pistol bolt in there now
[33:16] Speaker 9: which works really good with the suppressors and stuff like that.
[33:20] Speaker 2: Okay, so that's kind of tuned for running with expressor yep.
[33:23] Speaker 9: Okay, yep, but it will run otherwise any other just
[33:27] Speaker 9: normal way of planking or competition or anything like that. So,
[33:31] Speaker 9: like all the internal parts are we use the Mark
[33:34] Speaker 9: four lower which is rubs lower, but we take all
[33:37] Speaker 9: the parts of it and we have all of our
[33:38] Speaker 9: d M parts and all that stuff put in it,
[33:41] Speaker 9: plus our bolt. The uppers are so we kind of
[33:45] Speaker 9: unmask it all and we put all the.
[33:47] Speaker 2: Goods, put your stuff in and customize it. Now, what
[33:52] Speaker 2: about this this little car being.
[33:54] Speaker 9: Yeah, so we have an envy, which is it's means
[33:59] Speaker 9: it's has a pistol brace and stuff like that on
[34:01] Speaker 9: it's considered a pistol.
[34:02] Speaker 2: Because the barrel, Yeah it's a pistol.
[34:05] Speaker 9: Yeah, brace with the brace because of the length of
[34:07] Speaker 9: the barrel and stuff like that. The one I have
[34:10] Speaker 9: here today will be a nine inch barrel, but we
[34:12] Speaker 9: do offer a six inch barrel on.
[34:14] Speaker 2: That that that's the one laying on the table that
[34:17] Speaker 2: caught my eye because it just seems so handy because
[34:19] Speaker 2: is the brace. It's a foldable brace as well. Yeah,
[34:22] Speaker 2: so I mean that becomes a very compact package. It
[34:25] Speaker 2: folds down perfect in a backpack or something like that.
[34:28] Speaker 9: If you're going out somewhere and semi auto, semi auto,
[34:32] Speaker 9: what kind of magaz does it use? River ten or
[34:35] Speaker 9: you know, just the River ten twenty two magazines?
[34:37] Speaker 2: Okay, so millions of them out there, and you get
[34:41] Speaker 2: a flat, a flush one or a real long.
[34:43] Speaker 9: Yeah, you can get the b X twenty five, you know,
[34:45] Speaker 9: stuff like that.
[34:46] Speaker 2: Yeah, perfect, very good yeah, and then you're also doing
[34:50] Speaker 2: seventeen HMR guns.
[34:52] Speaker 9: Right, yeah, seventeen h MAR and twenty two mag and
[34:54] Speaker 9: I believe we brought here is I fluted? Twenty two
[34:58] Speaker 9: mag is the one we brought?
[35:00] Speaker 2: How was doing the twenty two mag or seventeen HMAR?
[35:03] Speaker 2: How much different is that? And then dealing with twenty
[35:06] Speaker 2: two is it trickier a little bit?
[35:08] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[35:09] Speaker 9: Because with the twenty two magnue seventeen h AMAR if
[35:12] Speaker 9: you know, like in the past, River has some issues
[35:14] Speaker 9: with that, Tom found a way around that to make
[35:19] Speaker 9: them reliable and stuff like that. With the bolt, we
[35:22] Speaker 9: have to do a little bit something different with We
[35:24] Speaker 9: have a different hammer for that compared to our ten
[35:26] Speaker 9: twenty two hammer okay and spring, So we have a
[35:30] Speaker 9: few different setups, but otherwise it's pretty much put together
[35:33] Speaker 9: as same as our twenty two's. We just have different
[35:36] Speaker 9: components inside.
[35:37] Speaker 2: If somebody's looking at Okay, I want to get one
[35:40] Speaker 2: of these, I'm not sure if I want a twenty
[35:44] Speaker 2: two or twenty two mag or seventeen HMR. If they
[35:47] Speaker 2: come to you and say, Marty.
[35:48] Speaker 3: What do you think?
[35:49] Speaker 2: You know, like, how do you choose?
[35:53] Speaker 9: I look, I'm kind of a twenty two mag guy. Okay,
[35:56] Speaker 9: so I like the twenty two. I don't know, it's
[35:59] Speaker 9: like my first gun that time built me. Okay when
[36:01] Speaker 9: when when I started working there, So I've always liked it.
[36:05] Speaker 9: It's it's gonna knock down what I'm shooting, U Yeah,
[36:09] Speaker 9: raccoon stuff like that, well, especially if it's.
[36:12] Speaker 2: In a bigger, heavier gun like one of the ones
[36:14] Speaker 2: we have here. I mean that's that sucker doesn't move
[36:17] Speaker 2: at all, right, when you're shooting on a bench. It's
[36:19] Speaker 2: just it's a tack driver.
[36:20] Speaker 9: Right, Yeah. And the seventeen is nice. I mean that
[36:23] Speaker 9: that bullet's fast. It's just in my opinion, if you
[36:28] Speaker 9: got some wind out there at one hundred and fifty,
[36:30] Speaker 9: it's gonna sure, it's gonna yeah.
[36:32] Speaker 2: I mean the difference in weight of bullet makes a
[36:35] Speaker 2: difference at that point, right, Yes, yeah, I will say also,
[36:41] Speaker 2: you know you don't think of and I wouldn't say
[36:43] Speaker 2: it's any rim fire is necessarily loud, but a twenty
[36:48] Speaker 2: two mag or seventeen it's got a crack to it.
[36:51] Speaker 2: Yes that you go, wow, wait a minute, oh, this
[36:53] Speaker 2: is a rim fire, but it's it's it's moving, right, yeah, exactly.
[36:58] Speaker 9: I mean you can go out and shoot your you know,
[37:00] Speaker 9: twenty two, but you grab that twenty two magrat the
[37:02] Speaker 9: seventeen h mark, there is a difference.
[37:04] Speaker 2: Yeah you notice it? Yes, yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, that's fun.
[37:09] Speaker 2: I mean, Marty Welson, you guys been up to over
[37:11] Speaker 2: there local.
[37:12] Speaker 9: We've got a few things, you know, like the Envy
[37:14] Speaker 9: I was talking about. We're actually looking at doing our
[37:17] Speaker 9: own conversion of the takedown model on that. So we're
[37:20] Speaker 9: going to use that platform to do a takedown model,
[37:23] Speaker 9: make it even smaller, right yeah, yeah, yeah, be able
[37:26] Speaker 9: to take it down and everything like that, something with
[37:30] Speaker 9: the SBR kind of style stuff like that. So yeah,
[37:33] Speaker 9: and like I said, I mentioned our lightweight Bolt that
[37:35] Speaker 9: we the new lightweight Bolt we came out for our
[37:38] Speaker 9: pistols and trying to take off anything else.
[37:42] Speaker 2: But yeah, always always new things in the works, right yeah.
[37:46] Speaker 9: Yeah, we always got something in the workst We do
[37:47] Speaker 9: have a new chassis coming out also that's going to
[37:50] Speaker 9: be with included with that Envy.
[37:52] Speaker 2: Okay, so tell me about that you guys are doing.
[37:56] Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, we're we're actually doing it right in house.
[38:00] Speaker 9: We kind of outsource that stuff, but we're doing this
[38:02] Speaker 9: one right in house. We have them all machined.
[38:06] Speaker 7: Ready to go.
[38:07] Speaker 9: They got sent off to fizing, so when we get back,
[38:10] Speaker 9: hopefully they're they're back.
[38:12] Speaker 2: And the chassis thing is hot these days. I mean,
[38:15] Speaker 2: everybody's wanting a chassis gun and they look cool. I mean,
[38:20] Speaker 2: and they're probably you're fun to shoot. Marty. Thanks for
[38:23] Speaker 2: being on with us.
[38:24] Speaker 9: Thank you appreciate that.
[38:25] Speaker 2: Vulcourts and firearms, if you haven't heard of them, now
[38:28] Speaker 2: you have. This is kind of not your standard twenty two.
[38:32] Speaker 2: I mean, we think of a twenty two as all,
[38:34] Speaker 2: you know, a little you know, cheapy you buy in
[38:37] Speaker 2: some big box store. But if you want to step
[38:39] Speaker 2: up to something that looks different and shoots great, bull
[38:43] Speaker 2: courts and firearms a great one to look at, small
[38:45] Speaker 2: companies right there in the Midwest. Yeah, vulcourts and I
[38:48] Speaker 2: mean a lot of times we think of twenty two's
[38:50] Speaker 2: as budget friendly rifles and pistols. They don't have to
[38:54] Speaker 2: break the bank. But sometimes you want to step up
[38:56] Speaker 2: and get something really nice. We'll be right back. Hey,
[39:08] Speaker 2: welcome back to gun Talk. I'm your guest. It's Ryan Gresha.
[39:10] Speaker 2: I'm filling in for Tom this week. Thanks for hanging
[39:13] Speaker 2: around with us. You've made it to hour three, or
[39:15] Speaker 2: perhaps you're just driving on your car and you're thinking,
[39:18] Speaker 2: what the heck is this? This is the station where
[39:19] Speaker 2: I usually listen to someone like good at radio, like
[39:22] Speaker 2: Dave Ramsey, But you've got gun talk, so you might
[39:25] Speaker 2: as well stick around because we're talking about guns. We've
[39:27] Speaker 2: been doing it for thirty one years on the air.
[39:29] Speaker 2: And just to give you like a little background, like
[39:32] Speaker 2: our approach with this stuff is we love all things guns,
[39:36] Speaker 2: very broad in it. We talk about gun rights, we
[39:38] Speaker 2: talk about what I call the gun nerds side of this,
[39:41] Speaker 2: comparing ballistics and comparing rifles. But then we also talk
[39:46] Speaker 2: about the self defense and that's the reality for a
[39:48] Speaker 2: lot of people. That's why they buy a gun, that's
[39:51] Speaker 2: where they start. Some of you listen to this, you
[39:54] Speaker 2: started because you started as a kid. I mean your
[39:58] Speaker 2: dad hunted or shotguns, your uncle, your grandpa, whoever introduced
[40:01] Speaker 2: you to it, and along those lines. If you're someone
[40:05] Speaker 2: who's into this, there are a lot of people out
[40:08] Speaker 2: there who are not opposed to guns, but they just
[40:11] Speaker 2: don't know anything about it at all. And they don't
[40:14] Speaker 2: maybe they didn't grow up in a household where dad
[40:17] Speaker 2: was a gun guy, and so you could be that safe,
[40:20] Speaker 2: responsible friend who invites people to the range, who shows
[40:24] Speaker 2: them how to do it, do it the right way,
[40:26] Speaker 2: perhaps start with a twenty two and get them comfortable
[40:29] Speaker 2: with it and show them how fun it is, because
[40:32] Speaker 2: you know, if you don't have that person to hold
[40:35] Speaker 2: your hand and show you the way, it's really easy
[40:39] Speaker 2: to not take that step. It's really easy to not
[40:41] Speaker 2: buy that gun or get a little training and get proficient.
[40:44] Speaker 2: So just encourage you. If you're listening to this and
[40:48] Speaker 2: you're the gun enthusiast and your crowd at your work, whatever,
[40:51] Speaker 2: do those things invite people to do it. You know,
[40:54] Speaker 2: we talk about trends and things we're seeing these days.
[40:57] Speaker 2: What are the trends that we keep seeing is double
[40:59] Speaker 2: stack Team Eleven's and nineteen eleven pistol, the forty five auto,
[41:03] Speaker 2: John Browning's John Browning's creation. They're fantastic. And then the
[41:08] Speaker 2: double stacks are really not new. I mean, Pair of
[41:11] Speaker 2: Ordinance brought that out gosh, maybe twenty or thirty years ago,
[41:15] Speaker 2: but they've just become hot again in the last several years.
[41:18] Speaker 2: And it's an interesting trend because I think it's a
[41:20] Speaker 2: trend that's a bigger one for the world of guns,
[41:23] Speaker 2: which is guns as a fun hobby. We talk about
[41:28] Speaker 2: it where it's all serious, what is this gun for?
[41:30] Speaker 2: What is it good for? Is it good for carry?
[41:32] Speaker 2: Is it good for hunting? Is it going to stop
[41:34] Speaker 2: a bear?
[41:35] Speaker 9: Well?
[41:36] Speaker 2: That's great, that's the serious side of guns. But there
[41:40] Speaker 2: is a trend, especially I think in the younger crowd,
[41:43] Speaker 2: you know, the under forty under thirty crowd, where guns
[41:46] Speaker 2: as a fun hobby and it's not about whether this
[41:51] Speaker 2: is going to be the right thing for Carrie or
[41:53] Speaker 2: this is going to be it's just about going to
[41:55] Speaker 2: the range shooting things that are fun to shoot. And
[41:58] Speaker 2: a double stack nine to eleven definitely fills that need.
[42:01] Speaker 2: I mean, because they are a joy to shoot. They're heavy,
[42:04] Speaker 2: they have a good trigger, they don't have a lot
[42:05] Speaker 2: of recoil, they hold plenty of ambo. You can trick
[42:08] Speaker 2: them out, and let's be honest, you can kind of
[42:11] Speaker 2: look cool on the gram on social media because with
[42:15] Speaker 2: the right gun, maybe with a muzzle break or a
[42:17] Speaker 2: comp or something, they don't have a lot much muzzle flips,
[42:21] Speaker 2: so they look pretty cool. One of the things that
[42:24] Speaker 2: I don't know, and I would it's an interesting debate
[42:26] Speaker 2: to think about, is people carrying the double stack nineteen eleven,
[42:29] Speaker 2: Because I know people do it. There's got to be somebody.
[42:33] Speaker 2: But man, if you think about an all metal gun
[42:37] Speaker 2: that's a five inch barrel that and I know they
[42:40] Speaker 2: have smaller ones. Toccato has smaller ones, springtiar d memory
[42:44] Speaker 2: has smaller ones, SDS has smaller ones. But it's a
[42:47] Speaker 2: lot of weight. You know, you're talking about thirteen to
[42:50] Speaker 2: twenty rounds of nine in the gun. That adds a
[42:52] Speaker 2: lot of weight to it as well. So is it
[42:54] Speaker 2: something you would really carry? If it is, I would
[42:57] Speaker 2: say it's something you've got to train with, You've got
[42:59] Speaker 2: to really practice with. You're talking about a gun with
[43:01] Speaker 2: a thumb safety. You're talking about a gun that has
[43:03] Speaker 2: a shorter trigger press. That's okay as long as you
[43:07] Speaker 2: are proficient and trained with that gun. But it's just
[43:10] Speaker 2: something to consider because obviously, the quote unquote traditional carry guns,
[43:14] Speaker 2: the striker fire polymer stuff, that's what they're made for.
[43:17] Speaker 2: They're pretty lightweight. A lot of them are smaller for carry,
[43:20] Speaker 2: and they're easy to shoot, but it's fun. There might
[43:22] Speaker 2: be ones that you want to pick up Double Stack
[43:24] Speaker 2: nineteen eleven, so if you don't have one, take a
[43:26] Speaker 2: look

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