# Is A Gun Tax Constitutional?; Banning Handguns Is The Goal; Losing And Winning Gun Rights

An episode of [Gun Talk](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/190516844), 31 May 2026, 46 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/72263786/053126guntalkb.mp3

In This Hour: -- The federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition has been around for a century. Now some are saying it's unconstitutional. Larry Keane, from the National Shooting Sports Foundation, explains how the money is used and why it guarantees "A seat at the table." -- The focus may currently be on semi-auto firearms, but the goal from the beginning was to ban private ownership of handguns. That's still the plan. -- What does winning look like in the Second Amendment fight? Gun Talk 05.31.26 Hour 2 Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.

## Transcript

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[0:31] Speaker 5: All right, we're back with you. I'm Tom Gresham. This
[0:33] Speaker 5: is gun Talk. We have hit a million followers on
[0:38] Speaker 5: the gun Talk Facebook page. If you're not followers over there,
[0:41] Speaker 5: you need to do that, honestly. It's where we post
[0:45] Speaker 5: a lot of videos that might not make it out
[0:48] Speaker 5: on YouTube. YouTube it's rottles or blocks or stops posting
[0:54] Speaker 5: up some gun videos. Or on Facebook we can get
[0:57] Speaker 5: them all out. So if you follow us, it's just
[0:59] Speaker 5: look for Talk on Facebook. You'll be able to see
[1:02] Speaker 5: us over there. It's a sorry sucking down the cleriton
[1:09] Speaker 5: and everything else. Still got the allergies going spring us
[1:12] Speaker 5: here and it's blooming, so I'll hit that cough button occasionally,
[1:15] Speaker 5: but I'll stay with you. Don't go anywhere thinking about
[1:21] Speaker 5: what's been going on recently, and I think four states
[1:25] Speaker 5: now have banned or in the process of banning clocks
[1:30] Speaker 5: and clock type pistols. The ideas they're saying, well, these
[1:34] Speaker 5: can be modified to go full auto. Of course, doing
[1:38] Speaker 5: that is against the law. I mean, that would be
[1:42] Speaker 5: a felony to do that. People do it now? Are
[1:45] Speaker 5: they being prosecuted? That's a whole different issue. Understand that
[1:50] Speaker 5: when they pass a law that bans clocks and block
[1:54] Speaker 5: type pistols, those that have a cruciform trigger set up,
[2:00] Speaker 5: it's about sixty five percent of the gun sold on
[2:05] Speaker 5: the market today. It's banning sixty five percent of handguns.
[2:12] Speaker 5: It's sixty five percent of the handguns. I am reminded,
[2:17] Speaker 5: and I want to bring this up because I haven't
[2:19] Speaker 5: talked about this quite some time. Understand that, you know,
[2:25] Speaker 5: there are people like Jerry MITCHELLOK. Who've been around a
[2:28] Speaker 5: long time and can teach you how to shoot. He
[2:30] Speaker 5: can teach you to shoot to revolved, there are people
[2:32] Speaker 5: like Doug Kane who've been around a long time and
[2:34] Speaker 5: can teach you how to shoot a pistol, et cetera,
[2:37] Speaker 5: et cetera. Well, I'm a guy who's been around a
[2:39] Speaker 5: long time and can give you perspective on the gun
[2:44] Speaker 5: control movement, the gun ban movement. I was in high
[2:48] Speaker 5: school debating on the debate team the DoD Bill. The
[2:53] Speaker 5: DoD Bill, once it was passed, became the Gun Control
[2:56] Speaker 5: Act of nineteen sixty eight. Even going further back from that,
[3:02] Speaker 5: my dad was a gun writer and I had access
[3:06] Speaker 5: to all this file so I had articles for back
[3:08] Speaker 5: in the forties and fifties about guns and gun control
[3:11] Speaker 5: and gun bands. So with all that perspective, I want
[3:15] Speaker 5: to tap into that and talk about what's going on today.
[3:20] Speaker 5: This effort to ban glocks because supposedly they can be
[3:26] Speaker 5: modified into fol auto.
[3:29] Speaker 2: The full little thing has nothing to do with it.
[3:32] Speaker 5: You got to understand where we started on this and
[3:36] Speaker 5: why we are where we are today. I remember an
[3:40] Speaker 5: article published in about mid fifties. Title of it was
[3:45] Speaker 5: turn in that Handgun, written by a former Scotland Yard
[3:50] Speaker 5: official police officer. The idea is that handguns are used
[3:56] Speaker 5: to commit murders in America. We have way too many handguns,
[3:58] Speaker 5: We have way too many murders, and the way we
[4:01] Speaker 5: deal with crime and murders in America is to get
[4:05] Speaker 5: rid of handguns. I know some of you are saying, well,
[4:10] Speaker 5: that's ridiculous, what a silly idea. Trust me when I
[4:14] Speaker 5: tell you that back then, the most popular polls were
[4:19] Speaker 5: showing that some sixty to seventy percent of Americans listen
[4:24] Speaker 5: to this, sixty to seventy percent of Americans were in
[4:26] Speaker 5: favor of a total ban on handguns. That's changed now,
[4:31] Speaker 5: it's much much lower, although there are some And so
[4:35] Speaker 5: that spawned groups such as the Coalition to Ban Handguns,
[4:41] Speaker 5: which became the Coalition to Control Handguns because they found
[4:45] Speaker 5: out that the term banning handguns didn't go over so
[4:49] Speaker 5: well with the public, and then they changed that to
[4:52] Speaker 5: oh yeah, the Brady Campaign, Uh huh.
[4:56] Speaker 2: That's still around. The Brady Group is still around.
[4:59] Speaker 5: But they started off asked the National Coalition to ban handguns.
[5:05] Speaker 5: And then there was a shift, and this is important
[5:08] Speaker 5: to follow. There was a shift because they figured out, oh,
[5:12] Speaker 5: a lot of Americans own handguns. They don't want their
[5:15] Speaker 5: guns banned, they don't want to have their guns confiscated.
[5:18] Speaker 5: So this is not really going the way we want.
[5:22] Speaker 5: What are we going to do? I know, we'll come
[5:26] Speaker 5: up with a subset of guns. We'll create a category.
[5:31] Speaker 5: We'll just create a category of guns and make it
[5:35] Speaker 5: sound like they're so bad we've got to ban them.
[5:38] Speaker 5: Let's oh, let's call them assault weapons. There's no such thing.
[5:44] Speaker 5: We know that, but the public doesn't know the difference,
[5:48] Speaker 5: and they don't know the difference between full auto and
[5:50] Speaker 5: semi auto, and we could take advantage of that. Hey,
[5:53] Speaker 5: this is not Tom Greshman talking. This is what the
[5:55] Speaker 5: gun banner said back then. That's what they did. So
[6:02] Speaker 5: they create the term assault weapon, and they say, we're
[6:05] Speaker 5: going to work on demonizing that. And now we have
[6:10] Speaker 5: weapons of war, military style blah blah blah blah blah,
[6:13] Speaker 5: other stuff as a way to make them scary sounding.
[6:16] Speaker 5: And now they've convinced a lot of the public that
[6:19] Speaker 5: a thought weapon, which is a term that has no definition.
[6:22] Speaker 5: Of course, it was created its political term. It was
[6:25] Speaker 5: created as a term that they could use to ban
[6:29] Speaker 5: some subset of guns. Understanding while they're doing this, don't
[6:35] Speaker 5: forget what was going on before. The goal was then
[6:39] Speaker 5: and still is to ban all handguns. But they know
[6:42] Speaker 5: they can't do that. But if they can establish that
[6:46] Speaker 5: there are some guns that are just too dangerous, we
[6:51] Speaker 5: just can't have the public owning these and we all
[6:55] Speaker 5: agree this common sense that as thought, weapons cannot be
[7:01] Speaker 5: they hold too many cartridges, they shoot too fast, they're
[7:06] Speaker 5: used in murders, except that, of course, rifles are used
[7:09] Speaker 5: in less than three percent of the murders, and ars
[7:13] Speaker 5: are used in some subset smaller than all rifles. But
[7:17] Speaker 5: here's the thing, and I understand this is the long
[7:20] Speaker 5: view that they're taking here, and this will make sense.
[7:23] Speaker 5: I'll tie it together for you. If they can establish
[7:28] Speaker 5: that there's such a thing as a good gun versus
[7:30] Speaker 5: a bad gun, and if it's a bad gun, we
[7:35] Speaker 5: can get rid of it. We can ban the bad
[7:39] Speaker 5: guns because they're used to murder people.
[7:44] Speaker 2: All the same.
[7:44] Speaker 5: At the same time, they understand that these guns are
[7:48] Speaker 5: used in fewer than three percent of the murders. If
[7:54] Speaker 5: and when they could accomplish a band on Semeato's salt weapons,
[8:00] Speaker 5: if you will, then they will immediately turn around and say,
[8:05] Speaker 5: oh wait, look, we just discovered handguns are actually used
[8:12] Speaker 5: to commit far more murders than our rifles.
[8:17] Speaker 2: Huh.
[8:18] Speaker 5: Well, if we banned the semi auto rifles and they
[8:23] Speaker 5: were used in fewer than three percent of the murders,
[8:25] Speaker 5: we really need to go after the guns that are
[8:29] Speaker 5: used in most of the murders, and they will return
[8:35] Speaker 5: to the handgun ban that they wanted ever since the
[8:39] Speaker 5: fifties and formed groups to accomplish this and wanted to
[8:45] Speaker 5: ban the handguns and figured out it wasn't going to work,
[8:47] Speaker 5: so they shifted.
[8:49] Speaker 2: That's what's really going on.
[8:51] Speaker 5: So now we have four states that have banned glocks
[8:57] Speaker 5: and block style pistols. Now it's being challenged in the courts,
[9:03] Speaker 5: and the question under Heller and Bruin, where the Supreme
[9:06] Speaker 5: Court said you cannot ban guns that are in common
[9:09] Speaker 5: use for lawful purposes. Well, these are common guns and
[9:14] Speaker 5: they're clearly being used for lawful purposes. So the question
[9:18] Speaker 5: will be will the courts actually honor Bruin and Heller
[9:23] Speaker 5: and stop these states from banning these commonly owned guns.
[9:29] Speaker 5: I don't know how that's going to go. I mean,
[9:30] Speaker 5: I think we're going to prevail. But I'm currently reading
[9:34] Speaker 5: the book Alito, written by Molly Hemingway. Highly recommend it.
[9:38] Speaker 5: She's a very good writer. And you never know what
[9:41] Speaker 5: the courts are going to do. We had almost fifty
[9:44] Speaker 5: years of the Supreme Court acting as a super legislature
[9:51] Speaker 5: where they said, you know, we're just going to accomplish
[9:53] Speaker 5: the things that the legislature, the Congress won't do because
[9:56] Speaker 5: it needs to be done because the country needs it.
[9:59] Speaker 5: Whether or not it's lee go whether or not it's
[10:00] Speaker 5: mentioned in the Constitution, we're just going to make it up.
[10:03] Speaker 2: And they did.
[10:04] Speaker 5: Now we're past that to a large extent. Who have
[10:08] Speaker 5: a better Supreme Court, but you never know what you're
[10:11] Speaker 5: going to get out of them. So that's what's going
[10:14] Speaker 5: on there, just kind of bringing you up to speed
[10:18] Speaker 5: of what's going on. The other takeaway from all of
[10:23] Speaker 5: this is simple, and that is once you decide you're
[10:29] Speaker 5: going to become a Second Amendment warrior, it is a
[10:33] Speaker 5: lifetime enlistment. You are here for the duration because it
[10:39] Speaker 5: will never go away.
[10:42] Speaker 2: They will never stop trying to ban guns.
[10:47] Speaker 5: And when I say band guns, I mean all guns, rifles, shotguns, handguns,
[10:53] Speaker 5: all of them. Actually had one of the guys from
[10:57] Speaker 5: Tom Diez is his name with Violence of Policies and
[11:00] Speaker 5: early on in gun Talk and the gun Talk radio,
[11:02] Speaker 5: way way way long time ago, and I asked him,
[11:05] Speaker 5: I said, well, if you could be king for day,
[11:07] Speaker 5: you could wave your magic wand get anything done. What
[11:09] Speaker 5: would you want he said, well, I'd get rid of
[11:11] Speaker 5: all the guns. I said, well, I'm thinking wow, he
[11:15] Speaker 5: said it out loud. How about that? I said, well,
[11:17] Speaker 5: what about the police? He said, ah, once we get
[11:20] Speaker 5: rid of all the guns, the police won't need theirs either.
[11:23] Speaker 5: There you have it. That is where they are, That's
[11:26] Speaker 5: where their thinking is. Once we get rid of all
[11:31] Speaker 5: the guns, the police won't need theirs and will all
[11:33] Speaker 5: be better off. Of course, the criminals will, of course
[11:37] Speaker 5: obey the laws, because that's what criminals do, right. Yeah, right,
[11:42] Speaker 5: So that's where we are today, and I want to
[11:45] Speaker 5: give that perspective. They have never given up on the
[11:48] Speaker 5: idea of banning handguns. They just realized they weren't going
[11:51] Speaker 5: to be able to get it done then, and they
[11:53] Speaker 5: have gone to a different way of approaching it. And
[11:56] Speaker 5: if it's a thirty year or a fifty year plan,
[11:58] Speaker 5: that's okay with them because they're there for the duration.
[12:01] Speaker 5: And we have to be too simple as that. All right,
[12:04] Speaker 5: eight six' six talk gun Or tom. Talkgun that'll get
[12:06] Speaker 5: you in. Here I'm Tom gresher be right.
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[15:00] Speaker 5: Right carrying on, here let's go talk To joe And, Jefferson.
[15:04] Speaker 2: Texas, Hey, joe thank you for your. Patience you have the.
[15:07] Speaker 11: Floor, Hey, tom you know WHEN i listened to Gun
[15:10] Speaker 11: talk every, week one of the other THINGS i learned
[15:12] Speaker 11: is from in family frying the addouncer's how to store my,
[15:15] Speaker 11: gunlock unloaded and away From. Emma so That's. Joe so
[15:22] Speaker 11: that's not WHAT i called. About WHAT i called about
[15:24] Speaker 11: was to tell you THAT i started shooting late in,
[15:27] Speaker 11: life but a good go get training and even, SO
[15:30] Speaker 11: i learned the four rules of gun safety early. On
[15:35] Speaker 11: CAN i see be kind of a foome here on
[15:37] Speaker 11: your program? Today SO i just thought to tell you
[15:38] Speaker 11: a couple of EXPERIENCES i, had, sure and they're not
[15:42] Speaker 11: Something i'm proud. Of it's actually very. Embarrassing but you,
[15:45] Speaker 11: KNOW i would encourage people that if you will follow
[15:48] Speaker 11: the four gun, rules you can actually sometimes break one
[15:52] Speaker 11: and the other two or three will catch you and
[15:56] Speaker 11: keep you. Safe and that's What i've had. Happened, WELL
[16:00] Speaker 11: i had two and twenty. Years but each TIME i
[16:03] Speaker 11: was talking to my range buddies and THINKING i was
[16:08] Speaker 11: unloading the pistol and let the slide go, forward pull
[16:12] Speaker 11: the trigger with it pointing at the ground and goes
[16:14] Speaker 11: off and it's like man was, embarrason but thank, goodness,
[16:19] Speaker 11: no not none the worse for. It so just a learning.
[16:23] Speaker 11: Experience won't be talking and distracted When i'm loading and
[16:27] Speaker 11: unloading my.
[16:28] Speaker 5: Weapon so rule number two saved. You who never point
[16:32] Speaker 5: your gun to anything you're not willing to.
[16:34] Speaker 11: Destroy that's, Right, yep each TIME i had it in
[16:37] Speaker 11: a safe, direction and so that that rule saved. Me you,
[16:43] Speaker 11: KNOW i, SAID i got a fund of an ego,
[16:46] Speaker 11: bruise but that's a minor.
[16:48] Speaker 5: Thing it's you, know you make a good point is
[16:52] Speaker 5: that when WE'RE i think about handling guns the WAY
[16:57] Speaker 5: i think about flying airplanes is when you're, there you've
[17:00] Speaker 5: got to be there, mentally all there and there's nothing.
[17:03] Speaker 5: Else and if you're, distracted you need to, stop figure
[17:07] Speaker 5: out what's going on and start over. Again because trying
[17:10] Speaker 5: to handle a gun while you're having a different conversation
[17:13] Speaker 5: with somebody, else that where you're not really thinking about.
[17:15] Speaker 2: It as you point, out that's a recipe for a.
[17:18] Speaker 3: Disaster, Yep i'll know it for.
[17:23] Speaker 5: Real, Yeah So i'm glad nobody got. Hurt, now how
[17:28] Speaker 5: else have the four rules helped you?
[17:29] Speaker 11: Out, Well, well that's the first. Thing it kept me
[17:35] Speaker 11: from injuring myself or someone. Else they've helped me to
[17:40] Speaker 11: Be they've helped me to teach others how to be
[17:43] Speaker 11: safe and not be scared of. Guns follow the four
[17:46] Speaker 11: rules and follow them, assiduously you, know, obsessive compulsively and, yes,
[17:52] Speaker 11: yes and so teaching that to other People i've. Seen in,
[17:57] Speaker 11: FACT i had a couple of young ladies out on
[17:59] Speaker 11: the range of the, day and you, know it just
[18:01] Speaker 11: helps them to become more. Confident just always learn the
[18:04] Speaker 11: four rules and practice, them and you don't have to
[18:07] Speaker 11: be scared of.
[18:08] Speaker 2: Guns, yeah that's a great.
[18:10] Speaker 5: Point and the thing, IS i know people sometimes will
[18:13] Speaker 5: want to add rules to. It, no, no, no, No the
[18:15] Speaker 5: four rules work just. Fine we don't need. Anymore and
[18:18] Speaker 5: they're short enough and easy enough to remember to. MEMORIZE i,
[18:21] Speaker 5: Mean i've seen videos of young young kids reciting four
[18:25] Speaker 5: rules of gun. Safety so, Hey, joe thank you for the.
[18:27] Speaker 5: Call appreciate. That, yeah it's real. Simple you can get
[18:30] Speaker 5: them printed.
[18:31] Speaker 2: Up you. SHOULD i, HAVE i guess two of the.
[18:35] Speaker 5: Metal signs they sell over it at gun sight with
[18:39] Speaker 5: four rules on, them And i've got one put up
[18:41] Speaker 5: above my reloading. BENCH i can't remember WHERE i have
[18:43] Speaker 5: the other, one but they're good to put up at different,
[18:46] Speaker 5: places just as. Reminders and a lot of rangers have
[18:49] Speaker 5: the four rules put, up usually in the original. Form
[18:53] Speaker 5: sometimes they'll make a, change a little tweak here and,
[18:55] Speaker 5: there and that's. Okay but the four rules are. Basic
[18:59] Speaker 5: if you miss, them let me give them to you,
[19:00] Speaker 5: again BECAUSE i do have a. Memorized number, one all
[19:03] Speaker 5: guns are always.
[19:05] Speaker 2: Loaded what does that? Mean, well clearly we know they're.
[19:08] Speaker 5: Not always, loaded because we just downloaded, one BUT i loaded,
[19:11] Speaker 5: it but we treated as though it's. Loaded we treat
[19:14] Speaker 5: every gun as though it's. Loaded, period parade rest always.
[19:17] Speaker 5: Period that means just no. Exceptions we treat all guns
[19:21] Speaker 5: as though they are. Loaded fair, enough. Okay number. Two
[19:26] Speaker 5: never point the muzzle at anything you're not willing to.
[19:30] Speaker 5: Destroy that would be your, hand your, knee your, foot your,
[19:35] Speaker 5: dog a wall when there's somebody on the other side
[19:41] Speaker 5: of the wall that you wouldn't want to. Shoot oh,
[19:46] Speaker 5: yeah because both go through walls really. Easily it's where
[19:49] Speaker 5: are you pointing your? Gun and As joe, said it's
[19:53] Speaker 5: got to be like crazy compulsive about, it just like, always, always,
[19:59] Speaker 5: Always i'm careful where my muzzle is. Pointed number, three
[20:03] Speaker 5: don't put your finger on the trigger until your sights
[20:06] Speaker 5: are on the. Target if your guns pointed down range
[20:13] Speaker 5: and the sights are on the target and you touch
[20:16] Speaker 5: the trigger and it goes off and you didn't mean
[20:18] Speaker 5: for it, too it could be a little, embarrassing but
[20:22] Speaker 5: nobody's gonna get. Shot the shot went down. Range so
[20:26] Speaker 5: keep your finger off the cotton picking. Trigger, okay it
[20:31] Speaker 5: doesn't mean like with a handgun where you're laid it
[20:33] Speaker 5: alongside the trigger.
[20:35] Speaker 2: Guard, no stick it up there alongside the. Slide if you.
[20:39] Speaker 5: Place it over the top of the trigger, guard eventually
[20:44] Speaker 5: something's going to. Happen you're gonna get startled. Something that
[20:47] Speaker 5: finger is going to slide into the trigger guard and
[20:50] Speaker 5: hit the, trigger and the gun's going to make a
[20:51] Speaker 5: really loud. Noise so if you keep your finger up
[20:55] Speaker 5: along the, slide then you're not going to do. That
[21:00] Speaker 5: so that's number. Three keep your finger off the, trigger
[21:04] Speaker 5: into the, sight straw on the. Target number four is
[21:06] Speaker 5: know your target and what's behind. It identify your. Target
[21:12] Speaker 5: and you may be, thinking, Well i'm in the. Range
[21:14] Speaker 5: what's the big deal? Now, no, no, No the four wheels
[21:15] Speaker 5: of gun safety apply. Everywhere the four rules of gun.
[21:18] Speaker 5: Safety actually we're created for. Gunfighting we use them everywhere
[21:23] Speaker 5: else because they. Work but in a gunfight or self defense,
[21:27] Speaker 5: situation identifying your target is, critical and knowing what's behind.
[21:33] Speaker 2: It it's.
[21:34] Speaker 5: Critical you got a bad guy and you need to
[21:37] Speaker 5: shoot the bad, guy but you got.
[21:39] Speaker 2: A bus full of nuns and orphans behind the bad.
[21:42] Speaker 2: Guy you can't shoot at.
[21:45] Speaker 5: Him you must do something, different whether you're moving to
[21:49] Speaker 5: the side to get a different angle so now you've
[21:51] Speaker 5: opened up the, background or you've moved forwards so you
[21:55] Speaker 5: can drop down to a knee and shoot upward so
[21:59] Speaker 5: that the bullet's not going to go toward this school
[22:01] Speaker 5: bus full of nuns and orphans. Stuff you got to
[22:05] Speaker 5: think about what WOULD i do? If is there a
[22:08] Speaker 5: brick wall back? There, yeah that'll. Work is there just
[22:11] Speaker 5: a store back there with people in? It now that's
[22:13] Speaker 5: not going to. WORK i don't like that. BACKGROUND i
[22:16] Speaker 5: don't want to be flinging bullets back. There i'm not
[22:18] Speaker 5: one hundred percent That i'm going to hit this bad
[22:20] Speaker 5: guy with every shot because he may be moving. Around
[22:24] Speaker 5: four rules of gun. Safe to commit them to, memory
[22:27] Speaker 5: recyite them, off and teach them to.
[22:29] Speaker 2: Movies they're really. WORTHWHILE i, mean all, right we're. Back
[22:40] Speaker 2: let me get to.
[22:41] Speaker 5: This earlier in the, WEEK i set off a little
[22:43] Speaker 5: bit of a firestorm on x you, know Formerly, twitter
[22:47] Speaker 5: WHEN i posted something that really got people stirred. Up, now,
[22:50] Speaker 5: LOOK i haven't known to be guilty about saying something
[22:54] Speaker 5: just to get people stirred up and watch the. REACTION
[22:57] Speaker 5: i got a lot of reaction to, this AND i
[22:59] Speaker 5: want to throw it out there for discussion and your.
[23:01] Speaker 5: Reaction here's the background BEFORE i run this. Interview for
[23:05] Speaker 5: almost one hundred, years The Pittman Robertson act has placed
[23:10] Speaker 5: a tax on firearms and ammunition eleven percent on long
[23:15] Speaker 5: guns and, ammunition ten percent on. Handguns that's an excise
[23:18] Speaker 5: tax is paid by the, manufacturers and, obviously like all,
[23:23] Speaker 5: taxes it just gets built into the price that we,
[23:25] Speaker 5: pay and that has gone to find a lot of
[23:28] Speaker 5: very good. Things, however the question now is is a
[23:34] Speaker 5: tax on guns?
[23:37] Speaker 2: Constitutional can you tax A Second? Amendment?
[23:41] Speaker 5: Right and, further it gets complicated because evidently some states
[23:47] Speaker 5: now are, saying, oh or there's an excise tax on
[23:51] Speaker 5: the federal, level we'll apply another excise tax on guns
[23:56] Speaker 5: AND ammo on the state. Level and so instead of
[23:59] Speaker 5: being attacks that used to build ranges and to preserve
[24:03] Speaker 5: wildlife and do some good, things it now looks like
[24:08] Speaker 5: it's starting to become. Punitive so tell you. What here's
[24:13] Speaker 5: an INTERVIEW i did this, week and then after, that
[24:18] Speaker 5: let's have the conversation and you tell me what you
[24:21] Speaker 5: think about the idea of there being a federal tax
[24:25] Speaker 5: on firearms and. Ammunition get, ready you can give me
[24:28] Speaker 5: a call at eight six to Six talk gun Or
[24:30] Speaker 5: Tom Talk. Gun now here's that CONVERSATION i had earlier
[24:34] Speaker 5: in the. Week Larry king from The National Shooting Sports. Foundation,
[24:38] Speaker 5: LARRY i would introduce, you but you got so many titles,
[24:40] Speaker 5: now senior vice president and legal, counsel AND i don't
[24:44] Speaker 5: know what all you're doing these, days.
[24:46] Speaker 3: The guy who puts the garbage out on.
[24:47] Speaker 2: One how long have you been AT? INNSSF i just
[24:53] Speaker 2: passed twenty six?
[24:54] Speaker 3: Years?
[24:55] Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, man have you really been?
[24:58] Speaker 5: A National Shooting Sports foundation is the trade association for
[25:02] Speaker 5: the farms. Industry you, know whether you're making guns or
[25:05] Speaker 5: selling guns or being a distributor or. Whatever so you
[25:08] Speaker 5: basically represent all of. Them and there's something else that
[25:12] Speaker 5: has happened over the last five ten. Years it's much
[25:15] Speaker 5: more involved in legislation and litigation as it relates to
[25:21] Speaker 5: the consumers as well on The Second amendment.
[25:23] Speaker 12: Front, Absolutely i'm the Thing i'm most proud about in
[25:27] Speaker 12: my twenty six years nss is the growth of our
[25:31] Speaker 12: government relations capacity or public, affairs our, research our legal
[25:36] Speaker 12: work in Protecting Second amendment rights and challenging vans on
[25:42] Speaker 12: rifles and, magazines. Etc so you, KNOW nssf has changed
[25:46] Speaker 12: considerably for the. Good, yeah you know my twenty six,
[25:51] Speaker 12: years no.
[25:51] Speaker 5: Doubt and you know people are, Seeing, okay N ssf
[25:55] Speaker 5: is involved in a number of the lawsuits and that's,
[25:57] Speaker 5: visible but.
[25:58] Speaker 2: You also do things that are kind of not as.
[26:01] Speaker 5: Visible it's like working With congress and then taking meetings
[26:05] Speaker 5: and or WITH atf people are you, know they're lambasting
[26:08] Speaker 5: THE atf, you but you're working with those folks and,
[26:11] Speaker 5: Actually i'm just going to blow your cover here behind
[26:15] Speaker 5: a lot of the changes that we just saw announced
[26:17] Speaker 5: By Todd.
[26:18] Speaker 3: Blanche, well thank, You.
[26:20] Speaker 12: TOM i, mean we pride ourselves on having a working
[26:25] Speaker 12: relationship with the. Regulators there's no currency in you, know
[26:31] Speaker 12: a sports starth. Approach you have to make your, argument your.
[26:35] Speaker 12: Case you can disagree, strenuously.
[26:38] Speaker 3: But you can do.
[26:39] Speaker 12: That you, know professional, matter and we do that all the,
[26:43] Speaker 12: time and we have in the past SUIT. Atf BUT
[26:46] Speaker 12: i will say, that you, know the relationship with the,
[26:50] Speaker 12: ADMINISTRATION doj AND atf has never been, better particularly coming
[26:55] Speaker 12: off of a buid.
[26:55] Speaker 3: Administration it was, very very, contentious very.
[26:58] Speaker 12: Hostile me have the former president referred to the industry
[27:02] Speaker 12: as quote the enemy close.
[27:04] Speaker 3: Quote so there's a new sheriff in town in.
[27:07] Speaker 5: This you, know let's talk about one other thing BEFORE
[27:10] Speaker 5: i want to get to the subject we want to talk.
[27:12] Speaker 5: About but for, many, many many, years you know, this
[27:15] Speaker 5: we watched. This you get AND i get. It some
[27:18] Speaker 5: of this is, fundraising it's, marketing it's we're the only
[27:22] Speaker 5: no compromise. GROUP i hear all the, time and no,
[27:24] Speaker 5: compromise no, Compromise and you AND i know from doing
[27:27] Speaker 5: this for. Decades, look there's, compromise which MEANS i give.
[27:31] Speaker 2: Up but that's not what we're.
[27:33] Speaker 5: Doing if you, say, Okay i'm going to fight hard
[27:35] Speaker 5: AND i can only get fifty percent of WHAT i want,
[27:38] Speaker 5: Today i'll take the fifty.
[27:40] Speaker 2: Percent that's not. Compromise is it.
[27:43] Speaker 3: Not in my.
[27:43] Speaker 12: Mind, look politics is often called the art of, compromise
[27:48] Speaker 12: and you can achieve policy. Objectives you may not get
[27:52] Speaker 12: everything you want all at, once but you take crown
[27:56] Speaker 12: and you come back and you fight for more of
[27:59] Speaker 12: the next. Day that's the way you have to approach.
[28:01] Speaker 12: This if you demand, perfection then you let perfection be
[28:06] Speaker 12: the enemy of the good and you end up with.
[28:07] Speaker 3: Nothing and so it's better to take ground and come.
[28:10] Speaker 12: Back and you, know and when the horror is the
[28:13] Speaker 12: other side, says well will occur if the policy is,
[28:18] Speaker 12: adopted doesn't, happen you go back and you argue for,
[28:21] Speaker 12: war and you argue for additional dropping the restrictions and
[28:25] Speaker 12: more freedoms and protections for The Second. Amendment so compromise
[28:30] Speaker 12: is not, surrendered compromises making progress.
[28:32] Speaker 5: Exactly it makes no sense to Say i'm not going
[28:35] Speaker 5: to take WHAT i can get today because i can't
[28:37] Speaker 5: get it. All that's just, childish in, naive.
[28:40] Speaker 12: Frankly and we've unfortunately seen that recurring basis where your
[28:45] Speaker 12: demands are made that are just not, feasible, untenable and
[28:48] Speaker 12: SO i would rather achieve something, constructive you, Know and
[28:55] Speaker 12: that doesn't mean you're surrendering your.
[28:57] Speaker 2: Principles but you do understand it folks who are on the.
[29:00] Speaker 5: Outside, now on the, inside you're working with this all the,
[29:03] Speaker 5: time and you're looking at and, Say, okay we can
[29:05] Speaker 5: get this. Done now that other. Thing we're not going
[29:08] Speaker 5: to get it all today or even this. Year we're
[29:10] Speaker 5: gonna have to come. Back but if you're on the,
[29:11] Speaker 5: outside you don't know what the. Conversation you, Say, well
[29:14] Speaker 5: why couldn't we just just do? It, man just just
[29:17] Speaker 5: make it.
[29:17] Speaker 12: Happen, YEAH i, MEAN i certainly appreciate the frustration people have,
[29:23] Speaker 12: that you, Know congress doesn't at fast, enough and it's
[29:27] Speaker 12: a FRUSTRATION i personally share at.
[29:29] Speaker 3: Times but you know.
[29:33] Speaker 12: It's Not congress is not designed to move, quickly particularly The.
[29:37] Speaker 3: Senate it's it's designed to be a check on the you,
[29:41] Speaker 3: know motions of The.
[29:41] Speaker 12: House if you read history of The federal's papers and
[29:45] Speaker 12: things like. That so you know that's what the democracy is.
[29:49] Speaker 12: About the debate ideas and hopefully the better argument. Wins
[29:53] Speaker 12: but you got to play the long, game achieved what
[29:56] Speaker 12: is achievable at the, time.
[29:58] Speaker 3: And come back and fight another. Day all.
[30:00] Speaker 5: Right as much AS i hate, taxes all, taxes the
[30:05] Speaker 5: excise tax on guns AND. Ammo it seems like right
[30:08] Speaker 5: now there's an effort to, say, well that's a tax
[30:11] Speaker 5: on guns is, unconstitutional or we shouldn't have it or,
[30:14] Speaker 5: something AND i just want to, say, wait, wait back.
[30:16] Speaker 5: Up you need to understand about The Pittman robertson. Actic
[30:20] Speaker 5: can you take it from?
[30:20] Speaker 2: There?
[30:21] Speaker 12: Sure, LOOK i, mean there's a very good argument that
[30:25] Speaker 12: tax is paid by consumers on the exercise of The
[30:29] Speaker 12: Second amendment is problematic and they very well be. Unconstitutional
[30:33] Speaker 12: but what people don't understand is that The Pittman robertson excise,
[30:38] Speaker 12: tax that, tax which is paid by, manufacturers not by the,
[30:42] Speaker 12: consumer has been in existence since surround nineteen. THIRTEEN i
[30:46] Speaker 12: believe in nineteen thirty sixty, seven The Pittman Robertson act was,
[30:52] Speaker 12: adopted and it was the industry and conservation groups that
[30:59] Speaker 12: requested that this tax be applied to wildlife conservation because
[31:03] Speaker 12: at the time wildlife was struggling lightly in The, states
[31:07] Speaker 12: and we've seen tremendous gains.
[31:10] Speaker 3: On that front since The Bitmer Robertson.
[31:14] Speaker 12: Act but it's important to understand that the tax is
[31:17] Speaker 12: paid by manufacturers and importers eleven percent have for long
[31:23] Speaker 12: runs and ammunition and ten percent for. Handguns and we
[31:27] Speaker 12: know what that money goes. Towards it is the primary
[31:30] Speaker 12: source of conservation. Funding it's, distributed it's collected By, treasury
[31:35] Speaker 12: distributed BY Us fish And Wildlife service to The, states
[31:39] Speaker 12: and as the primary source of conservation funding in The United.
[31:42] Speaker 12: States it's really not correct to say that the tax
[31:45] Speaker 12: is paid by the consumer any more than you would
[31:49] Speaker 12: say the consumer pays the electric bill or the insurance
[31:53] Speaker 12: or the. Labor it gets paid into the overall pricing the.
[31:57] Speaker 12: Good AND i don't think anyone would say that charging
[32:01] Speaker 12: a manufacturer for electricity infringes upon The Second, amendment, Right
[32:07] Speaker 12: so it's not paid by the consumer.
[32:09] Speaker 3: Directly it's in an indirect.
[32:12] Speaker 12: Sense the consumer pays for electricity and labor like they
[32:15] Speaker 12: do for any, product but it's baked into the cost
[32:18] Speaker 12: of the of the. Product and it is it's a
[32:21] Speaker 12: tax that the industry, asked, uh you, know, well used
[32:25] Speaker 12: for wildlife.
[32:26] Speaker 5: Company the industry and hunters and gun owners all asked
[32:29] Speaker 5: whether this tax to be. Used and AM i right
[32:32] Speaker 5: that even if you're not a, hunter you still get
[32:34] Speaker 5: benefit because a lot of this money is used to
[32:37] Speaker 5: build public shooting.
[32:38] Speaker 12: Ranges that's correct and increasingly and that's something INN ssef
[32:42] Speaker 12: has been working on a lot the last few years
[32:45] Speaker 12: since that the money it pays for hunter education and
[32:50] Speaker 12: now there have been the legislation THAT nssf is supported
[32:53] Speaker 12: and got. Past it will help for building public shooting.
[32:56] Speaker 12: Ranges rising tides looks all boats and you know people
[33:00] Speaker 12: that never go, hunting but our target, shooters you, know
[33:03] Speaker 12: they get AN roi on their, investment and so there's
[33:07] Speaker 12: more opportunity for public shooting and that's been everything important
[33:11] Speaker 12: thing we've been working on the last several.
[33:12] Speaker 3: Years imagine what would happen if the tax on the
[33:15] Speaker 3: way the.
[33:16] Speaker 12: Industry and hunters would lose their feet at the table
[33:20] Speaker 12: to anti hunting groups and to.
[33:24] Speaker 3: You, know preservationists not.
[33:26] Speaker 12: Conservationists there's a distinction there that's you, know anti.
[33:30] Speaker 3: Hunting, groups animal rights groups would hold. Sway and so you,
[33:35] Speaker 3: know we're very that would not be good for the,
[33:38] Speaker 3: industry would be good for gun owners as.
[33:41] Speaker 2: Well because we can, say, hey we're paying for.
[33:43] Speaker 5: This we we didn't demand and deserve a seat at
[33:46] Speaker 5: the table because and we're looking AT i don't know
[33:49] Speaker 5: what the number is now it's probably in the five
[33:51] Speaker 5: to six million dollars a.
[33:53] Speaker 12: Day Significant, again it is the primary source of conservation
[33:57] Speaker 12: funding in The United, states increasingly being used to build shooting.
[34:01] Speaker 12: RANGES i mean now every forest IN vlm section has
[34:06] Speaker 12: got to work with local stakeholders to build a shooting
[34:10] Speaker 12: range in the forest or in THE dlm.
[34:13] Speaker 3: District so that's an important.
[34:15] Speaker 12: Development you, know The Public Marksmanship training And Support act
[34:20] Speaker 12: that n it's A sith champion helps to create more
[34:25] Speaker 12: public shooting, opportunity not just. Hunting and again it's also
[34:28] Speaker 12: you know where funding comes from for hunter education.
[34:32] Speaker 5: CLASSES i just had a thought where we're talking and you,
[34:36] Speaker 5: know because we've both been at this long, enough we
[34:37] Speaker 5: know how the other side. Works if they could eliminate
[34:40] Speaker 5: the tax on, guns the Pitman robertson fee and say,
[34:43] Speaker 5: okay you're not paying any money into, THIS i would
[34:46] Speaker 5: offer that that offers them a door to come back
[34:48] Speaker 5: in and, say you, know the public doesn't need to
[34:50] Speaker 5: be paying for shooting, ranges and the public doesn't need
[34:53] Speaker 5: to be paying for lands where people hunt because we
[34:55] Speaker 5: don't support hunting and we don't support, shooting and let's
[34:58] Speaker 5: just shut all of that. Down that gives them a
[35:01] Speaker 5: huge door to come.
[35:02] Speaker 12: Through, absolutely you, know the industry, hunters gun owners would
[35:06] Speaker 12: lose their seat at the.
[35:07] Speaker 5: TABLE i hadn't thought of that until we had the
[35:14] Speaker 5: conversation With, Larry and, LOOK i am conflicted on this particular.
[35:18] Speaker 5: ONE i like the benefits we get out of The
[35:22] Speaker 5: Pittman robertson. Funds it funds hunter safety. Education basically saved
[35:28] Speaker 5: wildlife In. America if you go look at the population
[35:31] Speaker 5: numbers of elk deer turkeys in nineteen, thirty the twenties and,
[35:38] Speaker 5: thirties they were an all time. Low and the money
[35:42] Speaker 5: that came From Pittman roberson, funds the tax on guns
[35:45] Speaker 5: AND ammo Saved america's. Wildlife so it did great. Things and,
[35:49] Speaker 5: now of course we're using it also to build shooting.
[35:52] Speaker 5: Ranges at the same, TIME i have a basic core
[35:59] Speaker 5: problem with a tax on a second, amendment, Right so
[36:07] Speaker 5: that's kind of WHERE i am at the.
[36:08] Speaker 2: Moment But larry made a good.
[36:10] Speaker 5: Point he, says you, know if we aren't paying the,
[36:13] Speaker 5: money if it just comes from general funds, somewhere then
[36:17] Speaker 5: we don't have a seat at the. Table and Then washington,
[36:19] Speaker 5: speak that means we don't have any say in how
[36:21] Speaker 5: the money is. Used and the gun, banners the anti
[36:25] Speaker 5: hunters come in and, say oh, yeah hunters aren't paying
[36:28] Speaker 5: for this. Anymore gun owners aren't paying for this. Anymore
[36:31] Speaker 5: all this federal land where we've gotten it opened up
[36:35] Speaker 5: through the years for hunting and for. Shooting we should
[36:39] Speaker 5: stop hunting on national. Forest we should stop shooting ON blm.
[36:46] Speaker 5: Property there's no reason for, that and they not only,
[36:50] Speaker 5: can but they would do, that and we could be
[36:54] Speaker 5: ignored because we're just part of the general population and
[36:57] Speaker 5: we're not contributing the. Money is that worth having at
[37:03] Speaker 5: tax on? GUNS i don't. KNOW i would love to
[37:08] Speaker 5: get your take on. THIS i know there are people
[37:11] Speaker 5: who are over on x who are having very strong
[37:14] Speaker 5: opinions about.
[37:15] Speaker 2: This i'd love to have them come away in.
[37:18] Speaker 5: Here ALTHOUGH i think sometimes they just love the anonymity
[37:21] Speaker 5: of using a screen name and being able to call
[37:24] Speaker 5: people names and not be responsible for their actions or
[37:27] Speaker 5: what they.
[37:28] Speaker 2: Say there's a lot of that on The.
[37:29] Speaker 5: Internet if someone told me, recently, says, hey one of
[37:32] Speaker 5: the rules on, axes don't read the comments to your,
[37:34] Speaker 5: post just post it and move. On, yeah BUT i
[37:38] Speaker 5: like having a. Conversation that's WHY i like doing gun,
[37:40] Speaker 5: talk having this conversation where you can call, in can
[37:45] Speaker 5: you tell me what you? Think and you may, say, Hey,
[37:47] Speaker 5: tom you're just. Wrong you're wrong on taxing a. Segonment, right,
[37:52] Speaker 5: fine let's have the. Conversation but you got to call
[37:56] Speaker 5: in for us to have that. Conversation eight sixty Six
[37:58] Speaker 5: talk gun Or tom talk gun will gets you in.
[38:00] Speaker 5: Here so The Pittman, Robert and, look if you're a
[38:04] Speaker 5: hunter safety, instructor you know What i'm talking. About you
[38:07] Speaker 5: know that pr funds have covered that. Completely you know
[38:12] Speaker 5: that that money is being used for a lot of good.
[38:15] Speaker 5: Things AND i guess from a practical, STANDPOINT i would,
[38:21] Speaker 5: say all, right if we, said all, right we can't
[38:26] Speaker 5: tax The Second, amendment we can't tax guns because that
[38:30] Speaker 5: impacts The Second. Amendment, Okay i'm open to suggestions where
[38:34] Speaker 5: we're going to get the, money and is there a
[38:37] Speaker 5: way for us to do it so that we gun
[38:39] Speaker 5: owners and hunters continue to have a say in how
[38:43] Speaker 5: the money is, used so we can keep public lands
[38:45] Speaker 5: open for hunting and public lands open for, shooting and
[38:49] Speaker 5: building more shooting ranges and helping to promote the shooting.
[38:54] Speaker 5: SPORTS i don't, know but, look we've got a lot of, interesting,
[38:59] Speaker 5: smart creative peaceeople out there who could come up with.
[39:01] Speaker 5: Ideas So i'm open to, suggestions and LIKE i, say
[39:04] Speaker 5: i could argue both. WAYS i completely Admit i'm conflicted
[39:08] Speaker 5: on the, thing and any give a, Moment i'll switch
[39:11] Speaker 5: sides on.
[39:12] Speaker 2: You so there you. Go I'm Tom. Gresham this is gun.
[39:14] Speaker 5: Talk if you got a comment about, THIS i thought
[39:17] Speaker 5: maybe you could help me understand.
[39:19] Speaker 2: It, better give me a. Call we'll be right back
[39:28] Speaker 2: with real world.
[39:29] Speaker 8: Experience Range ready delivers basic and advanced classes for pistol and.
[39:34] Speaker 8: Rifle we also offer a lady's only handgun. Course all
[39:37] Speaker 8: these training classes at Range ready prepare you to use
[39:40] Speaker 8: your gun and win the. Fight find us at rangereadystudios
[39:45] Speaker 8: dot com to learn.
[39:46] Speaker 5: More More american women than ever are choosing firearms for self.
[39:51] Speaker 5: Protection female gun ownership has climbed one hundred and seventy
[39:55] Speaker 5: seven percent since nineteen, ninety with roughly one in four
[39:59] Speaker 5: women now owning a. Gun since twenty, nineteen sixty eight
[40:03] Speaker 5: percent of new female buyers cite protection as their main.
[40:07] Speaker 5: Reason one in four women has survived severe physical violence
[40:12] Speaker 5: from an intimate. Partner many have learned that police often
[40:16] Speaker 5: arrive too. Late compact concealable handguns top their shopping. Lists
[40:21] Speaker 5: women's specific training courses sell out within, hours and rangers
[40:25] Speaker 5: report female attendants. Doubling in many states with rational carry,
[40:29] Speaker 5: laws firearm companies now market directly to, women showing them as,
[40:33] Speaker 5: confident capable guardians rather than. Sidekicks millions of women are
[40:39] Speaker 5: rejecting helplessness and embracing armed self reliance as the most
[40:43] Speaker 5: reliable insurance policy in an uncertain. World all, right let's
[41:05] Speaker 5: go straight to the, Phones greg's And Eagle Point Oregon.
[41:08] Speaker 2: Online. One, Oh, greg you've made it into gun.
[41:10] Speaker 13: Talk talk to, me all, right this is my first time,
[41:14] Speaker 13: calling So i'm kind of. Nervous but WHEN i was,
[41:16] Speaker 13: Eighteen i'm sixty seven, now but WHEN i was, EIGHTEEN
[41:19] Speaker 13: i DID i transgressed.
[41:21] Speaker 11: And did an arm. Lobbery BUT i feel.
[41:25] Speaker 13: Like i'm still being. PUNISHED i haven't had my rights,
[41:27] Speaker 13: restored And i'm not sure if that's what you probably
[41:30] Speaker 13: have talked about, it BUT i just haven't been fortunate
[41:33] Speaker 13: enough to catch that show you're doing.
[41:35] Speaker 2: That, well that's changing.
[41:38] Speaker 5: Here it's about like two twenty five years, ago The
[41:41] Speaker 5: democrats went in and yanked the money out of the
[41:43] Speaker 5: budget where people could go and get their rights, restored
[41:47] Speaker 5: applied to THE atf and get the rights, restored and
[41:49] Speaker 5: so they didn't want convicted felons from being able to
[41:53] Speaker 5: own guns ever for the rest of their. Lives and
[41:55] Speaker 5: of Course i'm of the opinion that, hey you served
[41:57] Speaker 5: your time or you, paid your punishment should be over
[42:00] Speaker 5: and you should have all your rights. Back, well we're
[42:03] Speaker 5: working to get that. Back Under, trump The department Of
[42:06] Speaker 5: justice AND atf are working on rights restoration legislation to
[42:10] Speaker 5: try to get that. Done they're doing it right now
[42:12] Speaker 5: on a case by case basis a bit, more but it's,
[42:16] Speaker 5: slow and it's a little bit cumbersome and honestly a
[42:18] Speaker 5: little bit. TROUBLESOME i was kind of hoping they would
[42:20] Speaker 5: be moving, faster AND i know they're, busy but we're
[42:24] Speaker 5: working on.
[42:25] Speaker 2: It and that's not much consolation to.
[42:28] Speaker 5: YOU i know that you have waited a half a
[42:31] Speaker 5: century trying to get your rights, back but you, know
[42:34] Speaker 5: that's ALL i can tell you, IS i know it's
[42:36] Speaker 5: being worked on and there are people who are talking about, it.
[42:39] Speaker 2: But as of right, NOW i don't know where we, Are.
[42:42] Speaker 2: Telly What i'm going to.
[42:43] Speaker 5: Do i'm going to work on getting somebody from the
[42:47] Speaker 5: federal government on the, show or somebody who knows about it,
[42:50] Speaker 5: anyway to come on in the next week or so
[42:53] Speaker 5: and we could discuss it and maybe we'll get an
[42:54] Speaker 5: update on. THAT i hope you'll be able to listen
[42:57] Speaker 5: in and we can get you some information on.
[42:58] Speaker 13: That, Okay, YEAH i appreciate. It thanks you for your.
[43:01] Speaker 11: SHOW i appreciate it very.
[43:02] Speaker 5: Much Thanks, GREG i appreciate the. Call here's a question for,
[43:07] Speaker 5: you and this kind of goes to the whole internet.
[43:10] Speaker 5: Conversation If i'm more pure than you, are is the
[43:16] Speaker 5: question is this is winning incrementally the same as, compromise
[43:23] Speaker 5: because you've got some people who, say you, know we
[43:26] Speaker 5: didn't win, everything so that was a, compromise so they
[43:29] Speaker 5: consider that to be a. Loss And i've always been
[43:33] Speaker 5: of the opinion that if you can win half of
[43:35] Speaker 5: it and then come back for more, later that's a.
[43:37] Speaker 5: Win and, yes sometimes it's really disappointing to not be
[43:41] Speaker 5: able to win it. All but the people who work
[43:44] Speaker 5: In congress or legislators will tell, you, look sometimes you're
[43:48] Speaker 5: just not going to win it. All it's not in the,
[43:52] Speaker 5: cards it's not on the. Table it's not going to
[43:55] Speaker 5: happen no matter what you, do no matter how righteous
[43:58] Speaker 5: you think your cause is, today this, week this, year
[44:01] Speaker 5: it's not going to. Happen but we can get you
[44:04] Speaker 5: some of. It so the question is is it? Compromising
[44:11] Speaker 5: is it? Caving is it surrendering to take part of
[44:14] Speaker 5: what you want with the idea of coming back and
[44:17] Speaker 5: trying to get more of it.
[44:18] Speaker 2: Later and the REASON i bring.
[44:21] Speaker 5: It up is because you GOT i call them the chest,
[44:23] Speaker 5: thumpers the holier than, that more pure than you.
[44:28] Speaker 2: Are we're the only true no compromise that amendment.
[44:32] Speaker 5: Group, yeah, yeah, yeah, YEAH i, know get. It, jeez
[44:34] Speaker 5: give me a. Break but it does raise. Money it
[44:39] Speaker 5: raises funds by saying.
[44:40] Speaker 2: We're the new compromise.
[44:41] Speaker 5: Group, okay, sure when you don't, compromise you generally don't win. Anything,
[44:48] Speaker 5: Man i'll take fifty percent this, year fifty of what's
[44:51] Speaker 5: left next, year fifty percent of what's left after that next.
[44:54] Speaker 5: Year you see where we're, going. Right we call that.
[44:57] Speaker 5: Winning we lost a lot of our g writes incrementally
[45:01] Speaker 5: over many many. Years we're we're not going to get
[45:04] Speaker 5: them all back. Instantly we're getting back past and, Frankly
[45:08] Speaker 5: i'm frustrated like everybody, else BECAUSE i want it right,
[45:11] Speaker 5: now BECAUSE i know we have this narrow window during
[45:13] Speaker 5: The trump era when The democrats take over, again and
[45:16] Speaker 5: they will they will try to.
[45:18] Speaker 2: Undo as much of this as.
[45:19] Speaker 5: Possible SO i want to push this thing as far
[45:22] Speaker 5: as we, can so when the rubber band snaps, back
[45:24] Speaker 5: it doesn't come all the way back to where we.
[45:26] Speaker 5: Were maybe it comes halfway. Back we're back to that fifty.
[45:29] Speaker 5: Percent they. Again I'm Tom. Gresham this is gun.
[45:32] Speaker 2: Talks

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