# Virginia Prosecutors Defy Gun Ban; What's Your Next Gun?; Too Young For Shooting?

An episode of [Gun Talk](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/190516844), 31 May 2026, 44 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/72263813/053126guntalka.mp3

In This Hour: -- Virginia passed a new ban on common rifles and pistols, but a number of prosecutors have pledged to not enforce the law, saying it is unconstitutional. Philip Van Cleeve of the Virginia Citizen's Defense League explains where this is going. -- Serious shooters constantly look for the next gun, whether something old and historic or new and innovative. What are some of the options? -- How old should a daughter be before she can start learning to shoot? Gun Talk 05.31.26 Hour 1 Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.

## Transcript

[0:01] Speaker 1: Two hundred and fifty years of American liberty. Ruger is
[0:04] Speaker 1: honoring that milestone with firearms worthy of the moment. The
[0:07] Speaker 1: two hundred and fiftieth Anniversary series distinctly marked with made
[0:10] Speaker 1: in the two hundred and fiftieth year of American Liberty.
[0:13] Speaker 1: Each limited production model echoes Ruger's legendary nineteen seventy six
[0:17] Speaker 1: bi centennial line while celebrating the freedoms the Second Amendment
[0:20] Speaker 1: has safeguarded for generations. From the iconic ten twenty two
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[0:48] Speaker 4: He was the first and he's still the best. For
[0:51] Speaker 4: thirty years, Tom Gresham has been your trusted source on
[0:55] Speaker 4: all things mollistic, new guns, Second Amendment, personal protection part
[1:00] Speaker 4: of it. Paul Tom Talk Gun. Now, here's Tom.
[1:08] Speaker 5: It's that time again. It's time for gun Talk. I'm
[1:11] Speaker 5: Tom Gresham your host. We're gonna be talking about guns
[1:13] Speaker 5: and the Second Amendment and handguns, rifles, pistols.
[1:17] Speaker 2: I don't care what it is.
[1:18] Speaker 5: If it's a gun or ammo, we will talk about
[1:20] Speaker 5: it here and you can be part of it. Give
[1:22] Speaker 5: me a call it, Tom talk Gun. That's the magic
[1:24] Speaker 5: number here. Now, there's stuff going on everywhere in the
[1:28] Speaker 5: gun rights world, but it seems like at the very moment,
[1:32] Speaker 5: Virginia is the hotbed of that. And a couple of
[1:35] Speaker 5: days ago I was able to grab Philip Vancleeve from
[1:39] Speaker 5: the Virginia Citizens Defense League to bring us up to
[1:42] Speaker 5: date on that. It's hot stuff. Listen to this all right,
[1:46] Speaker 5: A lot of us are watching what's going on in Virginia.
[1:48] Speaker 5: It's been a little bit crazy, the results of an
[1:50] Speaker 5: election gone bat and you've got a band coming forward
[1:54] Speaker 5: on semi automatics and magazine limits and everything else. In
[1:58] Speaker 5: the Virginia Citizens Devents League, it's on top of it,
[2:01] Speaker 5: and there's a lot of stuff going on. Joining me
[2:03] Speaker 5: right now is Philip van Cleeve, the head of the
[2:05] Speaker 5: vcd L. Philip, I caught you in the middle of this.
[2:08] Speaker 5: I think I broke in right between meetings you're having.
[2:11] Speaker 5: But like, as of this moment, you got all sorts
[2:14] Speaker 5: of stuff going on. You want to bring us up
[2:15] Speaker 5: to speed.
[2:16] Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a real circus here. I think it's interesting
[2:19] Speaker 6: that I think they made a mistake in doing.
[2:21] Speaker 7: This in Virginia.
[2:22] Speaker 5: Man.
[2:22] Speaker 6: First of all, it's where vcdl's home is, It's where
[2:25] Speaker 6: the NRA's home is, it's where the goa's home is.
[2:28] Speaker 7: We have all these states filing lawsuits.
[2:30] Speaker 6: We and GOA are filing in the state, owners are
[2:33] Speaker 6: filling federally, and Hamid Dylan is going to step in
[2:37] Speaker 6: probably in early July, once it becomes enforceable law.
[2:41] Speaker 7: Right, Yeah, different angle.
[2:43] Speaker 6: She's gonna come in I think saying, hey, you're now
[2:46] Speaker 6: that you can enforce this, We're not going to let
[2:48] Speaker 6: you enforce it. So we'll see. It's gonna be it's
[2:50] Speaker 6: gonna be very interesting. But I don't know if you
[2:53] Speaker 6: probably have seen the breaking news. Yes, our state police
[2:56] Speaker 6: along with the Attorney General, just thumb their nose at
[2:59] Speaker 6: at a judge and said, well, we don't care about
[3:01] Speaker 6: your injunction on universal background checks. We're going to start
[3:04] Speaker 6: doing them anyhow. I've never seen that happen before, So
[3:08] Speaker 6: things are really going to get explosive here. We have
[3:11] Speaker 6: filed a suit basically going back to that judge saying,
[3:15] Speaker 6: you know, contemptive court on the State Police here.
[3:17] Speaker 7: So we'll know about that pretty soon.
[3:19] Speaker 5: So you and I are talking like on Thursday before
[3:23] Speaker 5: the show here, I just want people to understand because
[3:25] Speaker 5: things may have changed by the time this gets to air.
[3:28] Speaker 2: It's entirely likely that things worth changed.
[3:30] Speaker 5: And I want everybody to follow what's going on at
[3:31] Speaker 5: VCDL and over on X where I'm posting things as well.
[3:36] Speaker 5: But the idea that the state and the State Police
[3:39] Speaker 5: would say, yeah, I'm sorry, judge, we don't really care
[3:41] Speaker 5: what you say. We're going to ignore your injunction. We're
[3:44] Speaker 5: going to continue to enforce the law that you said
[3:46] Speaker 5: we shouldn't enforce. That's just plumb crazy.
[3:50] Speaker 7: That is absolutely crazy.
[3:51] Speaker 6: And then again, these are the same Democrats that knew
[3:55] Speaker 6: that when they tried to redistrict Virginia from a six
[3:58] Speaker 6: to five Democrat republic and representation.
[4:01] Speaker 7: In the House, that they wanted to make it ten
[4:05] Speaker 7: to one.
[4:05] Speaker 2: They knew they.
[4:06] Speaker 6: Didn't do it right, and our Supreme Court in Virginia
[4:09] Speaker 6: struck it down, you know, to the surprise of no one,
[4:12] Speaker 6: but I guess the Democrats.
[4:14] Speaker 7: They thought they were gonna get away with it and now.
[4:16] Speaker 5: And then then you had to take it to the
[4:17] Speaker 5: US Supreme Court. The supreme US Supreme Court says not no,
[4:20] Speaker 5: but hell no, because by the way, those are the
[4:24] Speaker 5: you who took civics know that the US Supreme Court
[4:28] Speaker 5: doesn't get involved in those state issues. So when the
[4:31] Speaker 5: state supreme court said it's unconstitutional, that's it.
[4:35] Speaker 7: Yeah, it's over.
[4:36] Speaker 6: It's got nothing to do with At that point, that
[4:38] Speaker 6: was just hell and Mary pass I guess by the Democrats.
[4:42] Speaker 6: And not only that, the other thing we've got working
[4:44] Speaker 6: for us now is now we've got seven, at least
[4:47] Speaker 6: seven and this may be going up. We have seven
[4:49] Speaker 6: commonwealth attorneys. Those are our you know, prosecutors in Virginia.
[4:53] Speaker 6: Seven of them are saying we are not going to
[4:56] Speaker 6: prosecute the assault weapon ban or the ban on carrying
[4:58] Speaker 6: assault weapons.
[4:59] Speaker 7: We're not going to to do it.
[5:01] Speaker 6: And the General Assembly like and our Attorney General is
[5:06] Speaker 6: a joke.
[5:07] Speaker 7: He was all said.
[5:08] Speaker 6: About that, but he didn't care that the common Wealth
[5:11] Speaker 6: attorney in Fairfax wasn't prosecuting illegal.
[5:14] Speaker 7: Aliens when they were doing things wrong.
[5:16] Speaker 6: That was okay, but heaven forbid that we protect the
[5:19] Speaker 6: Second Amendment.
[5:21] Speaker 7: But that's I mean, this is a battle royale. What
[5:24] Speaker 7: really is something to be a part of this?
[5:26] Speaker 2: Just describe it.
[5:27] Speaker 5: Because those of us on the outside, we're walking here
[5:28] Speaker 5: and thinking, well, wow, this is really interesting and there's
[5:30] Speaker 5: a liberal fight going on. I get the sense that
[5:34] Speaker 5: you are like running through an inferno all the time,
[5:38] Speaker 5: and there's just fires going on, and the people have
[5:41] Speaker 5: awakened and realized what's actually happening.
[5:43] Speaker 2: And the people in Virginia.
[5:45] Speaker 6: Yes, oh absolutely, and even across the country, their eyes
[5:49] Speaker 6: are on Virginia. Part of it is because we're not
[5:51] Speaker 6: a deep blue state. We're actually mostly red if you
[5:54] Speaker 6: were to look at it from a satellite, but if
[5:56] Speaker 6: nothing else, you could say we're purple. But we're not
[6:00] Speaker 6: deep blue. So all this gun control coming in all
[6:03] Speaker 6: in one year, not spread out over a decade, coming
[6:06] Speaker 6: in all at once. That's went up circuits across the
[6:09] Speaker 6: country on this everybody's watching Virginia because they know if
[6:13] Speaker 6: it can happen.
[6:13] Speaker 7: Here, it could happen anywhere.
[6:16] Speaker 6: Now, basically, the Democrats weeded out all the non far
[6:19] Speaker 6: left wing wing Democrats. They weeded them out, So now
[6:22] Speaker 6: we've got people our Senate vote had a zero percent
[6:26] Speaker 6: pro gun voting record this year zero not once did
[6:30] Speaker 6: and forty bills not once did any of them vote correctly.
[6:35] Speaker 6: And the Republicans had almost all have one hundred percent.
[6:37] Speaker 6: Some were in the mid nineties. But I mean, it's
[6:41] Speaker 6: like night and day. And keep in mind that back
[6:44] Speaker 6: in ninety five we had the Democrats controlled the House
[6:46] Speaker 6: and the Senate. We had a Republican governor back then,
[6:49] Speaker 6: and that's when we went from.
[6:50] Speaker 7: Mayasure to shallashing.
[6:51] Speaker 6: Nowadays, we can't get the mildest gun rights bill passed
[6:56] Speaker 6: any of the Democrats in the Senate and the majority
[7:00] Speaker 6: in the House.
[7:01] Speaker 7: And he had one in the House that had.
[7:02] Speaker 6: A forty one percent voting record. What he's all by himself,
[7:06] Speaker 6: floating in the middle.
[7:07] Speaker 5: So where do you think the populace is now? After
[7:13] Speaker 5: ye had this election? Spenberger got elected by pretending she
[7:16] Speaker 5: was a moderate, which she was a crazy leftist radical
[7:19] Speaker 5: nut job. And now that is out, people are seeing
[7:22] Speaker 5: who she is. What's the mood now?
[7:26] Speaker 6: Well, it's even her own site is mad at her
[7:28] Speaker 6: for other things she's done. Where she's they felt they've
[7:31] Speaker 6: been stabbed in the back with the other things. But
[7:34] Speaker 6: we call her grab agale Banburger.
[7:39] Speaker 7: But yeah, no she's not.
[7:40] Speaker 6: She is tremendously unpopular all the way around. Everybody's got
[7:44] Speaker 6: buyer's remorse. And I think again, I think this would
[7:49] Speaker 6: not have happened if the Red Areas had come out
[7:53] Speaker 6: and voted and we were warning gun owners.
[7:56] Speaker 7: You know, we need to wake up hunters.
[7:57] Speaker 6: They're part of the biggest problem here because they rarely
[8:00] Speaker 6: get involved.
[8:01] Speaker 7: But man, there was no excuse for this.
[8:03] Speaker 6: We could with all the gun owners in the Red Areas,
[8:06] Speaker 6: we could have stopped this from happening. So if they
[8:09] Speaker 6: sat back, I guess they thought Trump was elected so
[8:11] Speaker 6: they had nothing else to do anyhow, And now they're
[8:14] Speaker 6: learning civics. Oh well, like you said earlier, you know civics.
[8:18] Speaker 6: You got the federal government, but you got state governments,
[8:21] Speaker 6: and most gun control that we all live with are
[8:23] Speaker 6: actually at the state level. You know, I have the
[8:26] Speaker 6: same rights the youth in federally, but if I tried
[8:30] Speaker 6: to open carry in New York State, let's see what
[8:32] Speaker 6: happens to me there.
[8:33] Speaker 7: It's not federal law.
[8:34] Speaker 8: It's going to get me new.
[8:35] Speaker 2: York state law. Right.
[8:37] Speaker 5: I felt, if you've been at this a long time
[8:39] Speaker 5: and you really understand politics, and you're talking about the
[8:43] Speaker 5: election and the way that the red voters did not
[8:47] Speaker 5: turn out, and now we're looking at the midterms coming up,
[8:51] Speaker 5: and I'm wondering, could this be the warning that awakens
[8:57] Speaker 5: voters around the country to say, Wow, look what you
[9:00] Speaker 5: happened in Virginia, primarily because hunters and gun owners just
[9:04] Speaker 5: sat back and said, well, we're living in the age
[9:06] Speaker 5: of Trump.
[9:07] Speaker 2: Why worry?
[9:08] Speaker 7: Yeah, I think it will.
[9:09] Speaker 6: I think a lot of people again, they're looking at
[9:11] Speaker 6: Virginia and go, how did this happen in Virginia? And
[9:14] Speaker 6: here in Virginia, I think people are going, now, we've
[9:16] Speaker 6: had enough of all of this. So yeah, I think
[9:19] Speaker 6: it could could very well have that and the fact
[9:22] Speaker 6: that the Democrats didn't get their way with that ten
[9:26] Speaker 6: to one redistricting, the jerrymandering, they lost on that big time,
[9:30] Speaker 6: and that will also help.
[9:32] Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right.
[9:34] Speaker 5: So all right, so you've got lawsuits against well, let's
[9:37] Speaker 5: back up, let's not assume that people know what just happened.
[9:42] Speaker 5: If you would just run through quickly the laws that
[9:45] Speaker 5: were just signed into effect by Spenberger.
[9:49] Speaker 7: Okay, effect of July one, most of these if you
[9:53] Speaker 7: ar ars.
[9:55] Speaker 6: I should say, you know, assault rifles and assault firearms
[9:58] Speaker 6: as we call them there Virginia law have been redefined
[10:02] Speaker 6: and it covers a rifle with one attribute, most of
[10:06] Speaker 6: the ones we're familiar with, you know, a pistol grip
[10:08] Speaker 6: or threaded barrel. For handguns, it's two attributes. And shotguns
[10:13] Speaker 6: have now come in. So this is again where we're
[10:15] Speaker 6: telling the hunters you don't think they're coming after you.
[10:17] Speaker 6: They just did with shotguns. A lot of shotguns are
[10:20] Speaker 6: going to be banned. So what will happen is you
[10:22] Speaker 6: can keep what you got it's been grandfathered, but no
[10:25] Speaker 6: new sault firearms will be available in Virginia. You can't
[10:29] Speaker 6: sell the ones you got except to an FFL, but
[10:32] Speaker 6: you can't sell it to anybody else. You can't buy
[10:34] Speaker 6: any new ones. Magazines are limited to fifteen rounds after
[10:38] Speaker 6: July one.
[10:38] Speaker 7: If you have them before July.
[10:40] Speaker 6: One, you can keep them, you can carry them, but
[10:42] Speaker 6: you can't buy new ones that are over fifteen rounds
[10:45] Speaker 6: after July one. You can't carry in a saft firearm
[10:49] Speaker 6: in public on any public road, any public alley, any
[10:51] Speaker 6: public place open to the public of whatever nature. Can't
[10:55] Speaker 6: do that, but you can transport meaning unloaded, locked up
[10:59] Speaker 6: in the trunk where it does the logo. You can transport,
[11:02] Speaker 6: but you can't carry. They just didn't like gunnars showing
[11:05] Speaker 6: up that lobby day and uh, you know, standing on
[11:09] Speaker 6: you you know, and carry goes, oh no, we can't.
[11:12] Speaker 6: There have been zero problems, right, well, you know that's
[11:14] Speaker 6: never been an issue with VCO, No problems all these years.
[11:17] Speaker 6: That doesn't matter, is you and I both know this
[11:19] Speaker 6: is about civilian disarmament. It's not about crime. It's not
[11:23] Speaker 6: about making things safer. We know that they're letting people
[11:25] Speaker 6: out of prison early. No, they don't care about public safety.
[11:28] Speaker 6: That's an excuse to disarm us. That's the end goal.
[11:32] Speaker 5: And one of the lives they tell when they say, oh, yeah,
[11:35] Speaker 5: well we're gonna let you keep what you have, that's
[11:37] Speaker 5: on me, grandfather. That's until next year, where they say, well,
[11:39] Speaker 5: you know, clearly, if it's too dangerous for you to
[11:42] Speaker 5: be able to buy, it's too dangerous for you to
[11:44] Speaker 5: be able to own, so you're gonna have to turn
[11:46] Speaker 5: them all in.
[11:46] Speaker 2: That will come not only.
[11:49] Speaker 6: That, not only that, Tom, but who are we to say, okay, good,
[11:52] Speaker 6: my gun's and grandfather.
[11:53] Speaker 7: It's a lot of good. I'm I'm not gonna worry
[11:55] Speaker 7: about this. That is so an American.
[11:57] Speaker 6: Who are we to tell the next generation you can't
[11:59] Speaker 6: have the same guns that I have because I'm not
[12:02] Speaker 6: going to stand up and fight for you because I
[12:04] Speaker 6: get to keep my guns.
[12:05] Speaker 7: That's beloney.
[12:06] Speaker 6: I'm glad you know they didn't dare come and do
[12:08] Speaker 6: a confestation this year, but you're right, that's where they
[12:11] Speaker 6: would head it. They're given the chance, and we cannot
[12:14] Speaker 6: let this stand. The next generation needs to buy the
[12:17] Speaker 6: same guns that we have, and maybe even better guns.
[12:20] Speaker 5: You mentioned the lawsuits and you got NRAGA, Second Amendment, Foundation,
[12:25] Speaker 5: Fire's Policy Coalection VCDL. It's one of the reasons I
[12:28] Speaker 5: keep telling people you must belong to these groups because
[12:31] Speaker 5: it takes an enormous amount of money to challenge and
[12:34] Speaker 5: we're challenging it on the state level, challenging on the
[12:36] Speaker 5: federal level. And you got this Partment of Justice that
[12:39] Speaker 5: the moment that these laws become effective July one, then
[12:44] Speaker 5: Harmy Dillon walks in the door and.
[12:45] Speaker 2: Says, cease and desist that DOJ has arrived.
[12:49] Speaker 6: Yes, right, And it's like forty thousand dollars just to
[12:53] Speaker 6: walk in the door on a lossuit, just to walk
[12:55] Speaker 6: in the door. And these things can go on for years.
[12:58] Speaker 6: We have that universal back prod check that they're now defined. Well,
[13:01] Speaker 6: we're going after that. Just a contiguous battle. We had
[13:06] Speaker 6: another women in the city of Winchester. I don't say
[13:08] Speaker 6: we sue Winchester because people were going, why would you
[13:10] Speaker 6: see a gun manufacturer? No, this is the city of Winchester.
[13:14] Speaker 7: We just fad a.
[13:16] Speaker 6: But when there they were saying, no guns in our
[13:19] Speaker 6: parking garage is owned by the city.
[13:21] Speaker 7: Well, that's not a sensitive area. And we won that.
[13:23] Speaker 7: They backed down and blinked and got rid of the band.
[13:25] Speaker 5: Oh before before I let you go here, I want
[13:27] Speaker 5: to remind people that you know, you do not have
[13:29] Speaker 5: to be a citizen of the Commonwealth of Virginia to
[13:33] Speaker 5: belong to and support a bcd L. You can live
[13:35] Speaker 5: anywhere in the country and you can be a member
[13:37] Speaker 5: and you can send money to help with a fight.
[13:39] Speaker 5: That way, you keep the fight of Virginia and keep
[13:42] Speaker 5: it from Uzziah into your state.
[13:45] Speaker 7: That's fine, we'll do that, We'll fight for you.
[13:47] Speaker 6: But yeah, we welcome members from out of state absolutely,
[13:50] Speaker 6: because what happens here, will spread it.
[13:53] Speaker 7: We don't put the brakes on it.
[13:54] Speaker 6: And those people from Virginia we're talking about leaving going
[13:56] Speaker 6: to another state.
[13:57] Speaker 7: You don't ever win a war by retreating.
[14:00] Speaker 6: And our founding fathers would stood on you for leaving
[14:02] Speaker 6: this state just because he didn't like the gun laws
[14:04] Speaker 6: that had changed.
[14:05] Speaker 7: You should be here fighting with us to get these sticks.
[14:08] Speaker 5: There you go, Philip Banklay, thank you so much for
[14:10] Speaker 5: doing what you're doing and keeping us posted on what's
[14:12] Speaker 5: going on. All right, don't go far, we'll be right
[14:15] Speaker 5: back with more gun talk.
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[17:01] Speaker 5: Alrighty, let's do this thing. I'm Tom Gresha, I'm your host.
[17:04] Speaker 5: We're gonna be all over the place today, so just
[17:07] Speaker 5: dive into the middle of it. Didn't really matter because
[17:09] Speaker 5: I don't really have a theme or a plan. Well
[17:13] Speaker 5: I never have a plan. So if there's something you
[17:16] Speaker 5: want to talk about, give you a call. We'll talk
[17:18] Speaker 5: about it. Doesn't matter if it's a rifle of pistol,
[17:20] Speaker 5: a shotgun, a carrying technique, a holster, about sporting stuff,
[17:26] Speaker 5: sporting clay's clay, target shooting, long range rifles. O o
[17:31] Speaker 5: ooh there's something coming. Oh and give me a week,
[17:34] Speaker 5: give me a week. We've got some stuff to talk about.
[17:36] Speaker 5: It's gonna be really cool. Our number here, by the way,
[17:40] Speaker 5: is the eight sixty six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun,
[17:44] Speaker 5: and we're gonna be talking well in the next hour.
[17:49] Speaker 5: Cover the subject that I brought up on X that
[17:52] Speaker 5: start up a lot of people is a tax on
[17:59] Speaker 5: guns unconstitutional. You know, we already have one. We have
[18:07] Speaker 5: for a hundred years. It's an eleven percent excise tax
[18:10] Speaker 5: and long guns, ten percent on handguns, eleven percent on
[18:13] Speaker 5: AMMO that we pay. We'll talk about that a good
[18:16] Speaker 5: bit next hour. Over the last few weeks, we have
[18:22] Speaker 5: had several, I mean like maybe nine or ten instances
[18:26] Speaker 5: of good guys with a gun saving people and sometimes
[18:31] Speaker 5: by shooting them, sometimes by just getting a gun out
[18:34] Speaker 5: and pointed at somebody. We had one just a couple
[18:37] Speaker 5: days ago where good guys guy was shooting at people.
[18:42] Speaker 5: Good guys pointed the guns at the sky and he
[18:44] Speaker 5: just gave up. And not only did you give up,
[18:46] Speaker 5: he shot himself. Yep, that works, that'll work too. We
[18:51] Speaker 5: had an armed marine veteran in Cambridge, Massachusetts a couple
[18:56] Speaker 5: of three weeks ago stopped a guy. This guy with
[19:00] Speaker 5: in a middle traffic and he's shooting a rifle and
[19:04] Speaker 5: he's shooting fifty I think he ended up shooting fifty
[19:07] Speaker 5: to sixty rounds, hit a dozen vehicles, and he was
[19:12] Speaker 5: engaged by a Massachusetts State Police trooper. And then he
[19:17] Speaker 5: was joined by a former marine, just a good guy
[19:22] Speaker 5: with a gun who joins the fight, joins them with
[19:27] Speaker 5: the trooper joins by coming in at a different angle.
[19:31] Speaker 5: And he shooting at this guy. And let me just
[19:35] Speaker 5: tell you, two people shooting back is not twice as good.
[19:41] Speaker 5: It's like ten times as good. The multiplier effect is enormous,
[19:49] Speaker 5: especially if you can cut angles. You can get a
[19:51] Speaker 5: different angle. If you have a chance to work on this,
[19:56] Speaker 5: should you be with somebody you know, or even joining
[19:59] Speaker 5: up with an office or something. If you can get
[20:01] Speaker 5: a little separation and then you're working from different angles,
[20:04] Speaker 5: it makes a big difference.
[20:07] Speaker 7: Uh.
[20:09] Speaker 5: The equation and I'm reading his story says well changed
[20:11] Speaker 5: the equation was a civilian, a marine veteran legally carrying
[20:15] Speaker 5: under a Massachusetts license to carry law, who moved toward
[20:20] Speaker 5: the shooter instead of moving away from him. The marine
[20:24] Speaker 5: engaged the gunman, and according to Middlesex County District Attorney
[20:29] Speaker 5: Mary and Ryan helped to get people out of the
[20:31] Speaker 5: area by drawing the shooter's attention. You know, having two
[20:39] Speaker 5: people shoot back at the bad guy does in fact.
[20:42] Speaker 2: Divert his attention. We see it over and over again.
[20:46] Speaker 5: Basically, when the good guy shows up, the bad guy says, oh,
[20:51] Speaker 5: that's not what I counted on. There's some takeaways from
[20:54] Speaker 5: this instance of the marine joining the officer. I'm reading
[20:59] Speaker 5: a story by Jay Paulson and he said, look, training
[21:01] Speaker 5: is the variable, not the gun.
[21:04] Speaker 2: Says.
[21:04] Speaker 5: The DA didn't credit the Marines caliber holster or carry methods.
[21:08] Speaker 5: She credited his training. Spend money and time on instruction.
[21:12] Speaker 5: Just position an angle matter as much as marksmanship. I
[21:15] Speaker 5: don't know about that, but it matters. Marksmanship is important.
[21:19] Speaker 5: Movement beats freezing. Yeah, don't just stand there. Most people
[21:23] Speaker 5: don't train for that. Most people shoot on a square
[21:24] Speaker 5: range or an indoor range where they can't move around.
[21:29] Speaker 5: Try to find a place where you can go and train,
[21:30] Speaker 5: where you can shoot and move, or get some training
[21:34] Speaker 5: from a place where you can shoot and move, or
[21:37] Speaker 5: you can shoot and go down on her knee, or
[21:39] Speaker 5: shoot and go down on two knees. Or shoot and
[21:41] Speaker 5: go down prone and continue to shoot, or lay down
[21:44] Speaker 5: and shoot underneath a car. Ooh, never thought of that one,
[21:49] Speaker 5: did you? You lay down and the guys on the
[21:50] Speaker 5: other side of the car, you lay down, shoot underneath
[21:53] Speaker 5: the car and shoot him in the ankle. I think
[21:56] Speaker 5: you just got his attention. Yes, guaranteed. These are the
[21:59] Speaker 5: things you learn when you take these classes. We had
[22:02] Speaker 5: another thing out of a pleasant hill in Missouri just
[22:04] Speaker 5: a few days ago. A guy was starting to shoot
[22:08] Speaker 5: a place up and good guys show up, two of them,
[22:13] Speaker 5: and they approached him, and there are some shots fired,
[22:16] Speaker 5: and all of a sudden, this guy decides he's gonna
[22:19] Speaker 5: take himself out. The police chief credits the two good
[22:23] Speaker 5: guys who have guns. Good guys with guns firing back
[22:29] Speaker 5: are resisting stop mass murders. It's what stops mass murders
[22:34] Speaker 5: faster than anything we know about, and we know it
[22:38] Speaker 5: from the empirical data of this out there. So the
[22:40] Speaker 5: question is are you carrying? What are you carrying? And
[22:43] Speaker 5: how are you prepared mentally for a situation like that?
[22:46] Speaker 5: Give you a shout at Tom talk gun.
[22:56] Speaker 2: Ah, Yes, it's spring.
[22:58] Speaker 5: One of young men's turn to well, no, all of
[23:01] Speaker 5: us actually turns to what's the next gun?
[23:03] Speaker 2: I'm going to buy it? Yeah? I know, And it's.
[23:07] Speaker 5: An interesting question. There are so many out there and
[23:09] Speaker 5: so many new ones coming out all the time. So
[23:11] Speaker 5: the question is you're thinking about maybe something historical and
[23:14] Speaker 5: cool and old and neat, or looking at some of
[23:18] Speaker 5: the new things that are out double Stack nineteen eleven,
[23:21] Speaker 5: or new cartes or calibers, just wondering. Also, there are,
[23:29] Speaker 5: for lack of a better term, some weird calibers out there,
[23:34] Speaker 5: and I guess weird depends on your perspective, and you know,
[23:36] Speaker 5: it could be something old European, you know, nine three
[23:40] Speaker 5: by sixty two or whatever, or even some of the
[23:44] Speaker 5: US calibers. I mean some people think of two fifty
[23:46] Speaker 5: seven Robberts.
[23:47] Speaker 2: Its weird.
[23:48] Speaker 5: Or some of the new things, the new the Creed
[23:49] Speaker 5: Wars and the others. Would one of those be on
[23:53] Speaker 5: your shopping list? Or are even better? Do you own
[23:57] Speaker 5: something that people keep saying, what is that? Why do
[24:00] Speaker 5: you own that? What's that good for? So I'd love
[24:03] Speaker 5: to know about that, what caliber? What cartridge is your
[24:06] Speaker 5: wife with chamber for? That makes people scratch their heads
[24:08] Speaker 5: and go one world. Our number of course is Tom
[24:11] Speaker 5: Talk Gun Let's go grab Stu out of Georgia. Hey Stu,
[24:15] Speaker 5: your own gun talk. What's cooking?
[24:17] Speaker 9: Well?
[24:18] Speaker 12: Hi there, I wanted to give you a big thumbs
[24:20] Speaker 12: up on the Shooting Sport live streaming channel. I've had
[24:24] Speaker 12: a chance to enjoy it for the past week or so.
[24:27] Speaker 12: It captures all of the it captures all the best
[24:31] Speaker 12: of the Wednesday night at the Range outdoor channel programming,
[24:35] Speaker 12: as you might recall as you once had a show
[24:37] Speaker 12: on that evening. Yeah, and I like the way it
[24:41] Speaker 12: highlights the guns and the technologies and the modifications with
[24:47] Speaker 12: this billbox show for example. I'm hoping though that you
[24:51] Speaker 12: all might consider it getting into real world scenarios. A
[24:55] Speaker 12: lot of people are buying subcompact nine millimeters in three eighties.
[25:00] Speaker 12: You're not gun people necessarily, and you know, there's only
[25:04] Speaker 12: so many scenarios where a gun like that is appropriate
[25:08] Speaker 12: for me. It's not so much of fight but a
[25:12] Speaker 12: flight gun, whereas if I had a big, hulking handgun
[25:16] Speaker 12: but with lots of rounds, that would be I want
[25:18] Speaker 12: to see perspectives like that in real world scenarios for
[25:22] Speaker 12: programming on that channel. Other than that, it's all thumbs
[25:25] Speaker 12: up on it. Ryan's great, although that haircut of his
[25:29] Speaker 12: deserves a nice loud electric guitar. Anyway, Well, you know.
[25:34] Speaker 5: And the funny part is, as you look at this,
[25:37] Speaker 5: you'll realize that some of these shows are from a
[25:39] Speaker 5: few years ago, and the hairstyle will change as you
[25:42] Speaker 5: see different programs. Let me ask you, where did you
[25:45] Speaker 5: Those who don't know, we're talking about Shooting Sports Life.
[25:47] Speaker 5: It's our new full streaming channel. In the old style
[25:52] Speaker 5: of streaming, it's just one show after another, the way
[25:56] Speaker 5: that networks used to be, rather than just clicking and
[25:59] Speaker 5: choosing and you just turn it on and see what's
[26:01] Speaker 5: going to be on. So there are a lot of
[26:02] Speaker 5: different platforms available.
[26:04] Speaker 2: How did you add it to your TV? How do
[26:06] Speaker 2: you watch it?
[26:08] Speaker 12: Well, there's something called FREEBTV that I caught it on.
[26:11] Speaker 12: There's some flaws with the Roku set up, but once
[26:18] Speaker 12: I get my smart TV program just right, I can
[26:21] Speaker 12: go straight to the channel. It would be nice to
[26:24] Speaker 12: see it as an independent channel away from the streaming services,
[26:27] Speaker 12: but I understand why it has to be dealt with
[26:30] Speaker 12: that way. Being a former broadcaster myself, I know things
[26:34] Speaker 12: like that have to be done a certain way, but
[26:37] Speaker 12: mostly it was freeb TV where I caught it. I
[26:40] Speaker 12: enjoyed the programming a lot.
[26:42] Speaker 5: You know, I'm just thinking, if you like scenario based stuff,
[26:45] Speaker 5: are you familiar with our first Person Defender series?
[26:50] Speaker 12: I will look for it right after I talk to you.
[26:54] Speaker 5: Okay, we've been doing that for I don't know, probably
[26:57] Speaker 5: fifteen years now. We take regular people and drop them
[27:00] Speaker 5: into a force on force scenario and they get attacked,
[27:03] Speaker 5: something happens, and then we see how they do, and
[27:05] Speaker 5: then we coach them up a little bit and see
[27:07] Speaker 5: how they improve. It is available on our channels, YouTube
[27:10] Speaker 5: channels at all, and I'm sure we'll be included with
[27:13] Speaker 5: the Shooting Sports Life show as we go forward. But
[27:17] Speaker 5: you know, it's brand new, and you being out, you know,
[27:20] Speaker 5: experienced and broadcast, you understand it's like, Okay, we're.
[27:23] Speaker 2: Trying to make this work.
[27:24] Speaker 5: We're going to put all these pieces in and then
[27:26] Speaker 5: we just keep being able to get a little bit
[27:28] Speaker 5: of a time. And I like where it is now,
[27:31] Speaker 5: but it just gets better month by month.
[27:33] Speaker 12: Yeah, it reminds me all the fun stuff like with
[27:36] Speaker 12: the Michael Bains shows and of course shooting Usay, I'm
[27:39] Speaker 12: not so much into the sport of target shooting and
[27:42] Speaker 12: that sort of thing. But it's fun to watch that too,
[27:45] Speaker 12: But I really want to know about scenarios and defense
[27:48] Speaker 12: and things like that. And this looks like it's covering
[27:50] Speaker 12: pretty well.
[27:52] Speaker 5: It is thanks to I appreciate it. I appreciate the
[27:55] Speaker 5: comments on that. And for those who don't know, you
[27:57] Speaker 5: can go to Shootings Shooting SportsLife dot com see what
[28:00] Speaker 5: we're talking about and they'll show you where to go
[28:03] Speaker 5: and how to get the show. Okay, let me find this.
[28:08] Speaker 5: Oh there it is. Okay, remember god, it's got to
[28:12] Speaker 5: be fifteen twenty years ago. Now the video of the
[28:15] Speaker 5: dea cop who's talking in front of a class and he says,
[28:18] Speaker 5: you know, I'm the only one in this room qualified
[28:21] Speaker 5: to have a glock forty that he promptly shoots himself
[28:24] Speaker 5: in the foot.
[28:25] Speaker 2: We made a lot of fun of that.
[28:26] Speaker 5: Well, now we had kind of a variation on that.
[28:30] Speaker 5: And where was this boardman? I don't know where board
[28:35] Speaker 5: and a fin further out it's a store in Boardman.
[28:39] Speaker 5: I don't have the state on this story. Oh well,
[28:42] Speaker 5: sorry about that. But this guy goes into the store.
[28:47] Speaker 5: He's got a burst of three eighty pistol loaded and
[28:52] Speaker 5: he's wanted to buy a holster and he goes in
[28:55] Speaker 5: and the clerk says, we need to check your gun,
[28:57] Speaker 5: you know, just to make sure it's unloaded. And the
[28:59] Speaker 5: customer says, I'm allowed to carry. So he's already he's
[29:02] Speaker 5: got offended, and Clark says, well, you know, we do
[29:07] Speaker 5: need to check your gun. If you've got to go
[29:08] Speaker 5: buy holster, fort we need to check. And then the
[29:12] Speaker 5: customer proclaims says I'm not stupid, says I know I'm
[29:17] Speaker 5: not going to bring a loaded gun into the store, says.
[29:20] Speaker 5: The story goes on and says the employee said he
[29:22] Speaker 5: took the customer's gun, And this is where it gets
[29:25] Speaker 5: really interesting. He says he charged the slide back twice,
[29:30] Speaker 5: pointing it down into the left, and then the writer
[29:33] Speaker 5: goes into passive voice. A round was discharged from the pistol,
[29:39] Speaker 5: shattering a nearby glass display case. Another employee, standing roughly
[29:43] Speaker 5: twenty feet away was grazed by the gunfire and was
[29:46] Speaker 5: taken to the hospital with a non life threatening injury
[29:51] Speaker 5: to his arm. Well, I would offer that a round
[29:56] Speaker 5: was not discharged. It's not a case passive. Somebody pulled
[30:02] Speaker 5: the trigger on the gun and made it go bang.
[30:05] Speaker 5: And the way they're writing it up, it almost sounds
[30:07] Speaker 5: like the employee had the gun and racked the slide
[30:10] Speaker 5: a couple of times and then pulled the trigger, which
[30:13] Speaker 5: makes it sound like there was a full magazine.
[30:16] Speaker 2: And I don't know what was going on.
[30:18] Speaker 5: So you got the guy the customer who comes in
[30:21] Speaker 5: and proclaims that he's not stupid, he knows not to
[30:23] Speaker 5: bring a loaded gun in the store, and it's loaded,
[30:26] Speaker 5: of course. And then you got an employee who's racking
[30:30] Speaker 5: the slide, possibly without removing the magazine first. You know,
[30:34] Speaker 5: there's a certain order you have to do this. You
[30:36] Speaker 5: can't rack the slide and then take the magazine out
[30:38] Speaker 5: and pull the trigger and expect it not to go bang,
[30:40] Speaker 5: because that's just how things work. So there's a lot
[30:43] Speaker 5: of questions about this. I would offer that this is
[30:49] Speaker 5: yet another example of why we have the four rules
[30:53] Speaker 5: of gun safety. All guns are always loaded, Never point
[30:58] Speaker 5: a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy, keep
[31:01] Speaker 5: your finger off the trigger until your sites are on
[31:04] Speaker 5: the target. And number four, make sure of your target
[31:08] Speaker 5: and what's behind it. If you screw up on some
[31:14] Speaker 5: of them, but you still are obeying some of them.
[31:17] Speaker 5: You probably won't shoot anybody, especially if you do the whole.
[31:21] Speaker 5: Don't point a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy.
[31:25] Speaker 5: What does that mean in real world terms? In real practice,
[31:33] Speaker 5: it means you become like some kind of weird religious
[31:38] Speaker 5: zealot about muscle discipline, even with an unloaded gun, even
[31:45] Speaker 5: when you're being cared, even if you got the slide
[31:48] Speaker 5: locked back. When you need to move a gun from
[31:51] Speaker 5: pointing over there to pointing over there, you don't swing
[31:55] Speaker 5: it past people. He goes down to the floor, points
[31:57] Speaker 5: to the floor, He moves around, so that at any
[32:00] Speaker 5: point along the way, if it goes bang, it's not
[32:03] Speaker 5: gonna hit somebody. At no point along its movement does
[32:07] Speaker 5: it ever point at you or anybody else. You just
[32:11] Speaker 5: become so adamant about it that you would never think
[32:16] Speaker 5: about casually moving the gun. You also, by the way,
[32:22] Speaker 5: no dangling, Okay, when you're out the range, you'll see people,
[32:25] Speaker 5: they'll shoot, and then the bank anyaby bank guns empty,
[32:28] Speaker 5: and then they drop the gun to their side and
[32:31] Speaker 5: it's just dangling down there at the end of their
[32:33] Speaker 5: arm where they're walking around. It's guns just dangling all
[32:36] Speaker 5: over the place. No, it's a firearm. It's always a gun.
[32:42] Speaker 5: Point it with purpose. Yes, I know you shot it.
[32:46] Speaker 5: It's unloaded, slides locked back. Point it somewhere. Don't just
[32:50] Speaker 5: dangle it. For heaven's sakes, be in control of your gun.
[32:56] Speaker 5: Where's the muscle pointed at any given time? Where where
[33:00] Speaker 5: is the muzzle pointed? Simple as that. Let's go talk
[33:05] Speaker 5: to John and Dallas online three. He's got a range
[33:07] Speaker 5: report for us. Hey, John, welcome the gun talk.
[33:11] Speaker 13: Hey, thanks for having me back. Hey, So here's my
[33:14] Speaker 13: mini range report on that five hundred magnum performance center.
[33:18] Speaker 13: I told you about a couple of weeks. Yes, yeah,
[33:23] Speaker 13: I'll be honest, though I was. I was a little
[33:25] Speaker 13: disappointed in the AMMO. I feel like in the past,
[33:28] Speaker 13: I have a few different five hundred magnums, but my
[33:30] Speaker 13: eight and three eighth inch barrel, the first time I
[33:32] Speaker 13: shot it was with some Winchester silver tips, and man,
[33:35] Speaker 13: when you touched off that round, you can feel the
[33:38] Speaker 13: concussion and it is quite the ride. But that was,
[33:42] Speaker 13: you know, fifteen years ago. Now with this performance center,
[33:45] Speaker 13: with this particular AMMO, this HSM, you know it, it shoots,
[33:52] Speaker 13: But I feel like it was kind of weak sauce.
[33:55] Speaker 13: So I was shooting two rounds of three hundred grain
[33:57] Speaker 13: excuse me, three hundred and thirty grain hard cast lead,
[34:02] Speaker 13: and then a four hundred and forty grain barrel load,
[34:06] Speaker 13: also hard cast lad, and it just I don't know,
[34:09] Speaker 13: I've fired a lot of five hundred magnum. To me,
[34:11] Speaker 13: I didn'tchrono it, but it's all kind of like weak sauce.
[34:14] Speaker 13: So I was a bit disappointed.
[34:16] Speaker 5: Did you check that What does HSM say on their
[34:20] Speaker 5: website about the velocity?
[34:22] Speaker 2: They should have velocity published.
[34:23] Speaker 13: The correct So the four hundred and forty grain, it's
[34:28] Speaker 13: supposed to be sixteen hundred feet per second, and they
[34:34] Speaker 13: say it's out of an eight and three eighth inch barrel.
[34:36] Speaker 13: My original smith will listened, but out of this ten
[34:38] Speaker 13: and a half inch barrel. I just felt like, you know,
[34:41] Speaker 13: I fired forty four magnum that had more recoil. Oh,
[34:44] Speaker 13: and secondly, I should mention it was funny. I was
[34:47] Speaker 13: shooting it with my friend yesterday and they kicked this
[34:51] Speaker 13: off the pistol range because people three lanes down had
[34:54] Speaker 13: complained there's too much quash too loud.
[34:58] Speaker 2: Oh, I got a question for you.
[34:59] Speaker 5: Now is the luck you got to Did you say
[35:02] Speaker 5: a ten inch barrel on this one?
[35:04] Speaker 13: Yeah, it's ten and a half inch the Performance Center model.
[35:08] Speaker 5: Okay, have you shot other AMMO in it? I'm wondering
[35:11] Speaker 5: if if there's some part of this equation that the
[35:15] Speaker 5: longer barrel is reducing the felt.
[35:17] Speaker 13: Recoil, Yes, sir, and not only that when it comes
[35:22] Speaker 13: to feeling the recoil in the power, Yes, it's the grant,
[35:25] Speaker 13: the mass of the bullet, the type of powder they use,
[35:28] Speaker 13: the velocity, and also you're right, the length of the barrel,
[35:32] Speaker 13: the weight of the gun, plus the scope. So yeah,
[35:35] Speaker 13: it absorbed a bit of the recoil. But man, I'm
[35:38] Speaker 13: looking back to when I first shot my first five
[35:41] Speaker 13: hundred magneum like, wow, this is surely can take it.
[35:45] Speaker 12: Out Grizzly Bear.
[35:45] Speaker 13: But you know, if you want to get that that
[35:49] Speaker 13: jolt and ride that fun recoil that ammos hsm at
[35:53] Speaker 13: least in this platform, wasn't it well as interesting?
[35:57] Speaker 2: They kicked you off the range because your gun's too loud.
[36:00] Speaker 13: Yeah, well they moved me over to the rifle range.
[36:05] Speaker 5: Well that's okay. It is almost a rifle around. So
[36:08] Speaker 5: the question is Are you enjoying that revolver?
[36:11] Speaker 13: I do? I do.
[36:12] Speaker 2: Now.
[36:12] Speaker 13: We were just shooting an offhand, So I was shooting
[36:15] Speaker 13: at twenty yards and actually with that rifle scope. I
[36:18] Speaker 13: didn't tell you it's a rifle scope, not a pistol scope.
[36:21] Speaker 13: But I used it as a red dot, and just
[36:23] Speaker 13: with using it as a red dot, the illuminated radical,
[36:26] Speaker 13: I was hitting a center mask at twenty yards. So
[36:30] Speaker 13: if it was a charging bear, it'd be okay. But
[36:32] Speaker 13: this type of gun is meant to be shot off
[36:34] Speaker 13: of bipod or sticks, and we were just shooting it
[36:37] Speaker 13: off hands.
[36:38] Speaker 2: Yeah, that thing is set up for hunting.
[36:41] Speaker 5: It wouldn't be your typical gun you would carry for
[36:43] Speaker 5: bear protection, not with a.
[36:44] Speaker 13: Barrel that long, right right, Well, you couldn't technically carry it.
[36:49] Speaker 13: It's got a slip. You could technically carry it.
[36:53] Speaker 2: But that's that.
[36:54] Speaker 13: You know, it's a fun gun. And I would recommend
[36:57] Speaker 13: for those out there who are listening, if you ever
[36:59] Speaker 13: try a big magnum like that X frame, the four
[37:02] Speaker 13: sixty or five hundred, start with one round in the
[37:05] Speaker 13: cylinder first, because there's a phenomenon where a new shooter
[37:09] Speaker 13: if you're not gripping it right, you'll double tap it
[37:12] Speaker 13: and we put up two rounds at one time, and
[37:14] Speaker 13: you won't even know.
[37:16] Speaker 2: Oh you'll know.
[37:19] Speaker 5: You are do it on purpose, but you'll know the
[37:21] Speaker 5: two went off because that is a lot of recoil.
[37:24] Speaker 2: What a great writing report.
[37:25] Speaker 5: I appreciate that, sir, and I would offer if anybody's
[37:28] Speaker 5: interested in that type revolver. The big X frame, the
[37:33] Speaker 5: five hundred is the biggest and it hits the hardest,
[37:36] Speaker 5: but the four sixty Smith and Wesson Magnum is a
[37:40] Speaker 5: heck of a round. It shoots flatter, I think it
[37:44] Speaker 5: has a little bit less recoil. And the other benefit
[37:48] Speaker 5: is it's actually forty five caliber, and in the four
[37:52] Speaker 5: sixty Smith and Wesson revolver, it's kind of like a
[37:56] Speaker 5: three fifty seven magnum where you can shoot thirty eight
[37:58] Speaker 5: specials in it. In the four sixty you can shoot
[38:02] Speaker 5: four to fifty four casoole and forty five Colt. So
[38:06] Speaker 5: if you don't want to shoot the real big heavy
[38:09] Speaker 5: recoiling rounds all the time, you can back all the
[38:12] Speaker 5: way off to like Cowboy Action forty five colt and
[38:17] Speaker 5: those will be pussy catloads in that big heavy revolver.
[38:20] Speaker 5: And now you're talking about a lot of fun to shoot,
[38:23] Speaker 5: because even a four to fifty four cassoole is a
[38:27] Speaker 5: pretty powerful round. But you shoot forty five's in there
[38:29] Speaker 5: and you go, yeah, this is nice. I'm liking that.
[38:32] Speaker 5: So I would just offer that any I know, I know,
[38:35] Speaker 5: I know, you get bragging rights by having the five hundred,
[38:38] Speaker 5: get it. I understand that, and I've shot them, I've
[38:41] Speaker 5: owned them and actually have one, but I don't shoot
[38:44] Speaker 5: it much because it's not a lot of fun to
[38:49] Speaker 5: just go out and shoot. Now, it's a great hunting
[38:53] Speaker 5: rig if you want to hunt with a revolver, that's
[38:55] Speaker 5: a great rig for that.
[38:57] Speaker 2: But in terms of having a bit more versative.
[39:00] Speaker 5: Tilloty, I would go with the four sixty and then
[39:03] Speaker 5: have the option of four fifty four cassoole in forty
[39:06] Speaker 5: five cold. You know what the other thing is, you're
[39:09] Speaker 5: liable to find some four or fifty four cassuole ammo
[39:13] Speaker 5: being offered at discount from people who bought one of
[39:16] Speaker 5: those revolvers, shot it for a while and said this
[39:19] Speaker 5: is too much recoil for me. They sold their gun.
[39:22] Speaker 5: Now they got this leftover cassoole AMMO and you might
[39:26] Speaker 5: be able to pick some of that up for a song.
[39:28] Speaker 5: It happens, and you can feed it into that big
[39:31] Speaker 5: revolver and shoot it with.
[39:32] Speaker 2: No problem at all.
[39:33] Speaker 5: All Right, the number here eight sixty six Talk gun
[39:36] Speaker 5: or Tom Talk Gun. I'm Tom Gresham. This is gun talk.
[39:48] Speaker 5: So how old or how young is too old or
[39:51] Speaker 5: too young to start? Somebody out? Ryan's got the question.
[39:54] Speaker 5: Hey Ryan in Carson State, Nevada. You're on the air.
[39:57] Speaker 5: Tell me about it.
[40:00] Speaker 8: Ryan here with my nine year old daughter, Raylan, and
[40:03] Speaker 8: we were listening to your rules of gun safety. And
[40:08] Speaker 8: I think that, by the way, I really love that segment.
[40:10] Speaker 8: Thank you for that. Sitting here with my nine year
[40:12] Speaker 8: old daughter, Raylan though, and talking about when do we
[40:15] Speaker 8: start training her the gun safety laws and learning how
[40:19] Speaker 8: to shoot and going to the range.
[40:21] Speaker 5: In your opinion, Well, Raylan, what does she want to do?
[40:26] Speaker 5: That's the real question.
[40:29] Speaker 8: I want to say. Hi, go ahead, Tom.
[40:37] Speaker 5: I just wonder now, okay, So Ryan, does she want
[40:39] Speaker 5: to does she want to start shooting? Now?
[40:41] Speaker 2: Do?
[40:42] Speaker 7: I mean?
[40:42] Speaker 5: Because you know, it's one thing for us to say yeah,
[40:44] Speaker 5: now's the time for you to start. It's another thing
[40:46] Speaker 5: for them to say yeah, I'm ready, or I don't
[40:48] Speaker 5: really want to do it yet.
[40:52] Speaker 8: I would say. I just asked her after your segment
[40:54] Speaker 8: and she said twelve, because I think maybe we're not
[40:58] Speaker 8: there at the confidence level yet. Do you have any reals?
[41:03] Speaker 2: Okay, confidence? I love it?
[41:07] Speaker 5: Okay, here, all right, here's my recommendation. Take her to
[41:11] Speaker 5: the range with you and she doesn't have to shoot,
[41:14] Speaker 5: but make what you're doing fun and not loud, which
[41:18] Speaker 5: means buying a suppressor if you don't already have one.
[41:21] Speaker 5: Shooting rim fires twenty two rim fires with suppressors, it
[41:25] Speaker 5: will take about thirty minutes or less for her to say,
[41:28] Speaker 5: I want to try that because it's fun.
[41:30] Speaker 2: Shoot some reactive targets, steal targets.
[41:34] Speaker 5: If you have a place where you can do it,
[41:35] Speaker 5: Get you a bunch of ritz crackers and tape them
[41:37] Speaker 5: to a piece of poster board and shoot those. But
[41:41] Speaker 5: the suppressed twenty twos and a gun that is small
[41:45] Speaker 5: enough if it's a rifle to fit her or handguns,
[41:50] Speaker 5: and just make it fun and she'll.
[41:53] Speaker 2: Let you know when she's ready to do it.
[41:56] Speaker 5: But I think the main thing is to not have
[41:58] Speaker 5: her at the range with you. You're shooting big loud boomers.
[42:02] Speaker 5: That could be a little intimidating, but it'll all come together.
[42:05] Speaker 2: It's gonna be fine.
[42:07] Speaker 8: Sounds like a date date afternoon on BLM Land here
[42:10] Speaker 8: in Nevada.
[42:11] Speaker 5: And yeah, your recommendation, yeah, perfect, I suppressed twenty two,
[42:16] Speaker 5: making a picnic, outing and everything else. And then she'll
[42:20] Speaker 5: let you know when she's ready to try it. Okay,
[42:22] Speaker 5: But you know what, in the meantime, work on those
[42:24] Speaker 5: four rules of gun safety. Everybody in the family ought
[42:27] Speaker 5: to know those and be able to recite them any
[42:30] Speaker 5: given time. They're easy and you can find them. You know,
[42:33] Speaker 5: they're basically everywhere. But it's the rules that's set forth
[42:36] Speaker 5: by Jeff Cooper at gun Site four rules of gun safety,
[42:39] Speaker 5: and I would like for Raylan to be able to
[42:41] Speaker 5: know those and recite them as part of her training.
[42:45] Speaker 5: A great call, Hey, Raylan, thank you for being part
[42:47] Speaker 5: of the call. You guys be careful out there.
[42:49] Speaker 8: Okay, we will thank you Tom for your time.
[42:52] Speaker 5: You bet, you guys take care of a great call.
[42:55] Speaker 5: It's it's one thing for an adult to say, hey,
[42:59] Speaker 5: I think you're ready, and that's nothing wrong with that,
[43:03] Speaker 5: but you also have to measure that and put it
[43:06] Speaker 5: against the youngster saying I don't really want to do
[43:10] Speaker 5: that yet, or maybe I don't want to do that
[43:12] Speaker 5: at all, and he or she has a voting this thing.
[43:16] Speaker 5: He's not pushing somebody. You don't want to be doing that.
[43:20] Speaker 5: That's not gonna go. Well, make it fun, make it attractive,
[43:25] Speaker 5: take them to the range, let them have a good time.
[43:28] Speaker 2: I'm a huge believer in.
[43:31] Speaker 5: Suppressors, and now that they are easy to get and
[43:34] Speaker 5: you don't have the two hundred dollars tax, it's just
[43:36] Speaker 5: not a big deal.
[43:37] Speaker 2: You can pick them up anywhere.
[43:39] Speaker 5: You should have suppressors, and a suppressor on a twenty
[43:43] Speaker 5: two rim fire is absolutely the way to get somebody started.
[43:47] Speaker 5: And once you get going on that, here's the deal.
[43:50] Speaker 5: You're not going to want to shoot them any other
[43:52] Speaker 5: way either. You're gonna say, why was I shoot without
[43:54] Speaker 5: a cad all these years? This just makes sense? That
[43:58] Speaker 5: makes so much fun. It's just great. It's a great idea.
[44:03] Speaker 2: You know.
[44:04] Speaker 5: Now, we just got to get rid of the whole
[44:05] Speaker 5: registration thing on them, and I think that may be coming.
[44:08] Speaker 2: But in the meantime, there's no tax.
[44:11] Speaker 5: On suppressures and you can get all your paperwork back
[44:14] Speaker 5: in a week or so eight six' six Talk gun Or,
[44:17] Speaker 5: Tom Talk, gun be right.
[44:18] Speaker 7: Back

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