# How to Choose a Firearms Training Class and Spot Bad Instructors | Gun Talk Nation

An episode of [Gun Talk](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/190516844), 9 Apr 2026, 48 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/71070635/gtnation_0290_chrisc_final.mp3

How do you choose a good firearms training class, and what should you do if the instructor is unsafe, unhelpful, or simply wastes your time? In this episode of Gun Talk Nation, Ryan Gresham and Chris Cerino break down how to evaluate pistol and carbine classes, what bad training looks like, how to test your gear in class, and why tight groups, reliable equipment, and practical gun handling matter more than internet myths. Train with Chris at Range Ready Studios. This Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by Vortex Optics, CZ Firearms, Silent Steel USA, Range Ready Studios, EOTech, Taurus USA, Remington Ammunition, and FN Firearms. About Gun Talk Nation Gun Talk Media's Gun Talk Nation with Ryan Gresham is a weekly multi-platform podcast that offers a fresh look at all things firearms-related. Featuring notable guests and a lot of laughs. Gun Talk Nation is available as an audio podcast or in video format. For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Watch Gun Talk Nation on its new YouTube channel. Catch Gun Talk Hunt on the new dedicated YouTube Channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts. Copyright ©2026 Freefire Media, LLC Gun Talk Nation 04.09.26 Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Do you want to get training? You pay all this money,
[0:03] Speaker 1: you take time off from work, you travel, you show
[0:06] Speaker 1: up with all of your gear, excited to learn, and
[0:08] Speaker 1: the guys a freakin' apple. What do you do right away?
[0:12] Speaker 2: You've got to tell people to piss off.
[0:20] Speaker 1: I'm Ryan Gresham and this this is guntog Nation. Guntognation
[0:34] Speaker 1: is brought to you by cz Usa, Silent Steel, Vortech,
[0:41] Speaker 1: range Ready, FN EO Tech, Taurus, and Remington Ammunition. All right,
[0:50] Speaker 1: welcome into gun Talk Nation Guntognation. This week, we're gonna
[0:53] Speaker 1: have our director of Training of range Ready Studios, Chris Serno,
[0:57] Speaker 1: Because Chris, we have to talk about training and classes
[1:02] Speaker 1: and the types of things that you see and the
[1:04] Speaker 1: things that happen in classes. Because although there's not you know,
[1:10] Speaker 1: we always say, and people listen to this may or
[1:12] Speaker 1: may not know there's whatever. There's like eighty or ninety
[1:16] Speaker 1: million gun owners in America and the number of people
[1:20] Speaker 1: that take a full day or even better yet two
[1:24] Speaker 1: day or three day class is very very small, like
[1:27] Speaker 1: eight thousand people a year. Maybe it's like point zero
[1:31] Speaker 1: zeros one percent or something.
[1:33] Speaker 2: So I want to make my living teaching class.
[1:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, this is this is great. I'm gonna do something
[1:38] Speaker 1: nobody wants to do. I like to offer a service
[1:41] Speaker 1: that no one wants to buy.
[1:42] Speaker 3: A hand out a shingle and try to poach like
[1:45] Speaker 3: one or twenty of those eight thousand people.
[1:48] Speaker 1: It's our cut of our running joke. Everybody is like, well,
[1:51] Speaker 1: we have this thing that not a lot of people
[1:54] Speaker 1: purchase this service, but when they do training, and I
[1:59] Speaker 1: think people think I'm just like, oh, you just want
[2:01] Speaker 1: us to come sign up for your thing. Actually, I
[2:04] Speaker 1: just want you to go sign up for anybody's thing.
[2:06] Speaker 2: Because just make sure it's a good one.
[2:08] Speaker 1: Well that's where it is.
[2:10] Speaker 2: How do you know?
[2:10] Speaker 1: How do you know? Mostly? I mean certainly when they
[2:13] Speaker 1: come here are we're basically you know, we ask people
[2:18] Speaker 1: review our courses and we say give us a one
[2:22] Speaker 1: through ten. This is anonymous. They don't have to put
[2:24] Speaker 1: their name. We don't look at them.
[2:26] Speaker 3: Then we don't like to look at them ever, but
[2:29] Speaker 3: you guys make me read them sometimes because we want.
[2:32] Speaker 1: To get better, you know, I want I want the
[2:34] Speaker 1: constructive criticism, and basically we get mostly ten out of ten,
[2:41] Speaker 1: sometimes nine out of Ten's.
[2:43] Speaker 3: Here's what I want to That's it. I want to
[2:45] Speaker 3: hear if something's wrong or if there's something I can
[2:47] Speaker 3: do better. Yeah, I don't need anybody blowing smoke up
[2:50] Speaker 3: my skirt. I don't need anybody telling me that it
[2:52] Speaker 3: was fantastic, because I know it was fantastic. I gave
[2:55] Speaker 3: them one hundred and ten percent. If you don't think
[2:57] Speaker 3: it was, then tell me why we want.
[3:00] Speaker 1: We really want to know. I mean sometimes I'm disappointed
[3:03] Speaker 1: when I get a glowing when I look through and
[3:05] Speaker 1: it's just nothing but glowing reviews, I'm like, all right, well, good,
[3:08] Speaker 1: that's what we want to have happened. That's that's our expectation. Yeah,
[3:12] Speaker 1: I'm looking for a little feedback of like, well, well
[3:15] Speaker 1: get it.
[3:16] Speaker 3: Early on, when we first started range ready, we got
[3:19] Speaker 3: some really good stuff, and I would tell Hannah, I
[3:21] Speaker 3: don't want to read them, just let me know if
[3:23] Speaker 3: there's something wrong. She'd like, well, I think you should
[3:26] Speaker 3: see this, And it was about, hey, more chairs for this,
[3:30] Speaker 3: more space for that, Hey how about some some water,
[3:33] Speaker 3: or hey, maybe a few more breaks, because man, it
[3:36] Speaker 3: is hot out there, and I am a slave driver,
[3:39] Speaker 3: and I forget sometimes.
[3:40] Speaker 1: Well you're trying, you always tell them, trying to give
[3:43] Speaker 1: them their money. You're trying to give them their money,
[3:45] Speaker 1: you know, like Galary, their money's worth very sensitive that
[3:48] Speaker 1: we all are of, Like these people paid good money
[3:50] Speaker 1: and took time to travel here or whatever. It is,
[3:52] Speaker 1: So okay, So people are training all over the country,
[3:56] Speaker 1: not a lot of them, but more of you should.
[3:59] Speaker 1: I promise you won't read it. I don't care if
[4:01] Speaker 1: you come here or go somewhere else. But we're going
[4:04] Speaker 1: to talk about a few things in this episode. We're
[4:06] Speaker 1: going to talk about the class we just had, which
[4:09] Speaker 1: was a pistol carbing combo class, some fun things that
[4:12] Speaker 1: we saw there, some things we learned, some funny things.
[4:15] Speaker 1: We're going to talk about experiences that we've heard from
[4:19] Speaker 1: other people going to other places. And how do you
[4:21] Speaker 1: know if somebody's gonna be a good trainer or a
[4:24] Speaker 1: bad trainer? And what do you do if you're in
[4:26] Speaker 1: a class where you go, man, this is no good.
[4:28] Speaker 2: How do you know when to walk out?
[4:30] Speaker 1: How do you know when to walk out? Because it
[4:32] Speaker 1: happens you just mag dump and just yell yippie kaya.
[4:37] Speaker 3: And I just throw my gun in the mud because
[4:39] Speaker 3: I've got so many I just throw it in the
[4:41] Speaker 3: ground because it makes a big statement, and I turn
[4:43] Speaker 3: around and I just walk out. I leave it, and
[4:45] Speaker 3: I'm like, congratulations, you got a free gun.
[4:48] Speaker 2: But I'm gone keep god.
[4:51] Speaker 1: So uh so we're running this car being pistol class.
[4:55] Speaker 1: And I told you, Chris, one of the funny things
[4:57] Speaker 1: is pistol classes. People bring their pistols and there's nothing
[5:03] Speaker 1: there's not Usually it's not usually too wild. I mean,
[5:06] Speaker 1: people have their pistol and it's either a glock or
[5:09] Speaker 1: an m MP or a Walther or a sig sour.
[5:13] Speaker 3: I would think they couldn't score a Springfield or a
[5:16] Speaker 3: Taurus or whatever.
[5:17] Speaker 1: And it's it's typically polymer Striker fired nine millimeter guns.
[5:22] Speaker 1: For the most part, you got the nineteen eleven guy.
[5:25] Speaker 1: It's pretty fine. But the weird part is car beings.
[5:29] Speaker 1: You see all kinds of weird stuff at carbing class.
[5:32] Speaker 3: Man, and it usually starts off with well I built
[5:36] Speaker 3: this one.
[5:38] Speaker 1: I mean, this is every car being class we've had.
[5:41] Speaker 1: And I literally was thinking, I wonder what Chris is
[5:44] Speaker 1: seen because it always starts with all right, well show
[5:46] Speaker 1: me what you brought. Yeah, it's not like it's not
[5:49] Speaker 1: like we're trying to say this is good or this
[5:51] Speaker 1: is bad or you should have bought a of this brand. No, No,
[5:54] Speaker 1: it's just like, how do you evaluate what well?
[5:58] Speaker 3: First I look forca anical correctness. I make sure triggers
[6:02] Speaker 3: are installed correctly, because that's one of the things people
[6:04] Speaker 3: screw up.
[6:05] Speaker 2: I look to make sure.
[6:06] Speaker 3: Accessories are installed, you know, correctly, properly, because I see
[6:12] Speaker 3: things wrong all the time. Heck, I had a guy
[6:14] Speaker 3: come into a class many years ago, I think Gibb
[6:16] Speaker 3: was in it, and he had an eotach on the gun,
[6:21] Speaker 3: but it was on backwards because it looked like an
[6:25] Speaker 3: RMR would mount on a.
[6:26] Speaker 2: Pistol right, like a regular red dot site.
[6:29] Speaker 3: So he had it on that way, and I looked
[6:30] Speaker 3: at it, and I don't think anything of it until
[6:32] Speaker 3: I had really scrutinized it and picked it up, and
[6:35] Speaker 3: then I was like, wait a minute, that's the.
[6:37] Speaker 2: Way that's supposed to go. It looks right, but.
[6:40] Speaker 1: It wasn't utech holographic sites are awesome, but they look
[6:46] Speaker 1: backwards when they're correctly installed.
[6:49] Speaker 3: It looked like a pistol site put on backwards. Yeah,
[6:52] Speaker 3: you know, this class, there are some things poorly installed.
[6:54] Speaker 3: Of course, there's always a list, and I have a
[6:56] Speaker 3: list sitting in my lap right now. I just don't
[6:59] Speaker 3: want to bang through it because there's so many things.
[7:01] Speaker 3: But first I look at I look at the guns
[7:04] Speaker 3: for mechanical correctness, if there's something that I can see
[7:06] Speaker 3: that's wrong, eye pick, loose optics, being loose, things installed
[7:13] Speaker 3: backwards or incorrectly or in the wrong places.
[7:17] Speaker 1: And then just functionality. Right, you said triggers, So specifically,
[7:21] Speaker 1: what we're kind of talking about, I think is does
[7:24] Speaker 1: the safety work when the safety is on? Yeah, well
[7:28] Speaker 1: the trigger not fire and vice versa. Right, Yes, what
[7:34] Speaker 1: stuff like that, Yeah.
[7:35] Speaker 3: One hundred percent. And then you know, I look for
[7:37] Speaker 3: how they're what kind of sling they have on it.
[7:40] Speaker 3: And you know, when you get a guy that's, you know,
[7:43] Speaker 3: five feet tall or barely five feet tall, and he
[7:45] Speaker 3: has a single point slang with a full sixteen inch
[7:49] Speaker 3: gun with the stock extended, and now we're looking at
[7:51] Speaker 3: you know, I don't know how many inches we're talking
[7:53] Speaker 3: about overall, but somewhere close to forty and it's hanging
[7:58] Speaker 3: like a pendant around his neck. We have to have
[8:01] Speaker 3: a discussion about that and how that's going to work
[8:03] Speaker 3: on the range, and what the learning process will be.
[8:06] Speaker 1: A single point slaying. The gun is hanging between his legs,
[8:11] Speaker 1: and it's if it's a short guy.
[8:13] Speaker 2: I mean, it's literally scraping the ground.
[8:15] Speaker 1: It's scrape in the ground. The muzzle is scraping the ground.
[8:17] Speaker 3: And you can't take any more adjustment out of it
[8:20] Speaker 3: because he's that he's that just that small of a guy,
[8:23] Speaker 3: you know, And and it looks I mean it sounds.
[8:27] Speaker 3: I don't know, guys, I'm not beating up on anybody,
[8:29] Speaker 3: because I love our students and they they love me.
[8:33] Speaker 2: They treat me really well. I treat them.
[8:35] Speaker 3: I give them one hundred and ten percent, and I
[8:37] Speaker 3: try to be honest with them. Like we had a
[8:39] Speaker 3: front sight that was on backwards. I mean, the sites
[8:43] Speaker 3: go on the gun a certain way. The rear one
[8:45] Speaker 3: goes to where it lays and it comes to the
[8:49] Speaker 3: you know, to the end of the charging handle, unless
[8:51] Speaker 3: it's some kind of wonky configuration, because there are some
[8:54] Speaker 3: cheap Chinese things out there that are so big they
[8:56] Speaker 3: can actually get in the way of your charging handle.
[8:59] Speaker 3: But it goes here. The front site goes at the end.
[9:02] Speaker 3: The front sight when it folds folds back towards you.
[9:05] Speaker 3: It doesn't fold out forward. And if it says uh,
[9:09] Speaker 3: directionals stuff on it, like where it's they usually want
[9:13] Speaker 3: you to be able to.
[9:14] Speaker 2: See that from the bad guy doesn't need to see that.
[9:18] Speaker 3: This is the way it goes up to put the
[9:20] Speaker 3: site of the clue, you know, like uh, you know.
[9:23] Speaker 3: And then we had red dots that didn't have proper
[9:26] Speaker 3: risers on them. Well, when you buy listen, I shot
[9:31] Speaker 3: in this class. I shot a gun with a primary
[9:34] Speaker 3: arms optic on it. I shot it because it's an
[9:37] Speaker 3: etched radical, because I cannot shoot really well in front
[9:42] Speaker 3: of students doing zero stuff with a red dot, because.
[9:45] Speaker 2: I just can't get a fine enough site picture.
[9:47] Speaker 3: Okay, so I shot the set's radical primary arms. Believe
[9:50] Speaker 3: it or not, it came with three different sized risers,
[9:53] Speaker 3: so the one that's on it is probably not the
[9:56] Speaker 3: one you should.
[9:56] Speaker 2: Leave on it. Really, why is that?
[9:59] Speaker 3: Because you have to get up high enough so you
[10:01] Speaker 3: can actually cheek the rifle. So you came with the
[10:03] Speaker 3: lowest one, and then you can decide which one you
[10:06] Speaker 3: want for your rifle. But if you don't put any
[10:07] Speaker 3: on it, you can't see down the gun. And then
[10:11] Speaker 3: when the iron sight's get in the way of looking
[10:13] Speaker 3: through the side. Yeah, I mean folded down.
[10:16] Speaker 1: And that's probably a good rule of thumb, right, is
[10:20] Speaker 1: you shouldn't be fighting the gun or fighting the equipment.
[10:24] Speaker 1: It should be kind of like effortless, you know, to
[10:27] Speaker 1: mount it. It just feels normal. You're not straining anything,
[10:30] Speaker 1: you're not cocking your head up or down or sideways.
[10:33] Speaker 1: Like it should just be like roll right up to
[10:35] Speaker 1: your eye. You're standing in a comfortable position, and you
[10:39] Speaker 1: raise the gun up and then you can put the
[10:41] Speaker 1: gun to your shoulder. You can look through the optic
[10:44] Speaker 1: and you can pull the trigger.
[10:45] Speaker 3: Right, we talk about presentations and stuff like that. You
[10:49] Speaker 3: know that happens. So so then we talk about the
[10:53] Speaker 3: good and the bad and the ugly of about having
[10:56] Speaker 3: vertical grips on the guns, you know, because vert crip
[11:00] Speaker 3: it can really help you hold the gun solid.
[11:03] Speaker 2: But where do you put it? How far do you
[11:06] Speaker 2: need to stretch for it? How far should it be back?
[11:08] Speaker 3: And when you do hold it, do you hold it
[11:10] Speaker 3: like this like it's a broom handle so that the
[11:12] Speaker 3: gun can pivot inside, or do you hold it like
[11:15] Speaker 3: a pistol and lock that gun in?
[11:18] Speaker 2: All right, So.
[11:19] Speaker 1: There's somebody listening right now who has a vertical grip
[11:22] Speaker 1: on the ar. Probably a bunch of people. What's Chris
[11:26] Speaker 1: so Reno's little advice for this?
[11:29] Speaker 3: Until you start shooting heavy tactical stuff or competitions working
[11:35] Speaker 3: around vehicles and barricades, you'll never know what a pain
[11:40] Speaker 3: in the butt that thing's going to be. Because you
[11:42] Speaker 3: can no longer lay that handguard across a flat surface,
[11:47] Speaker 3: you can no longer get up over a car. You'd
[11:49] Speaker 3: have to go Junkyard style, which means normally we would
[11:52] Speaker 3: lay the gun on the car like we would shoot prone,
[11:54] Speaker 3: but you have to lay it completely flattened sideways. But
[11:57] Speaker 3: then do you have a flashlight over there? Is that
[11:59] Speaker 3: going to be a price problem? And you know, until
[12:02] Speaker 3: you start taking a class and working around the environment,
[12:07] Speaker 3: you don't realize how bad it was. So then one
[12:10] Speaker 3: gun had the magpull slant grip on it, you know whatever.
[12:14] Speaker 2: I like those. I like the way they feel the wedge.
[12:17] Speaker 2: But it was not an AR. It was like a
[12:20] Speaker 2: brand rifle.
[12:20] Speaker 3: And the rifle was literally, i don't know, from bottom
[12:24] Speaker 3: to top, almost four inches thick.
[12:27] Speaker 2: He had small hands.
[12:28] Speaker 3: Then he added the wedge grip to it, so now
[12:30] Speaker 3: he's just kind of holding it like it's resting in
[12:33] Speaker 3: his hand.
[12:34] Speaker 2: He can't grip it, can't pull it back in it.
[12:37] Speaker 1: And you don't run vert grips on a lot of stuff.
[12:39] Speaker 2: To you, I don't have any okay, but you're.
[12:42] Speaker 1: Saying what you want to be able to do is
[12:44] Speaker 1: pull the gun into you to make it more stable.
[12:46] Speaker 1: If you're going to use you.
[12:47] Speaker 3: Got to crush this sort of cuts player. And that's
[12:51] Speaker 3: the whole idea, is pulling that gun into you. And
[12:53] Speaker 3: it's really not your strong hand that does the work.
[12:55] Speaker 3: It's your support hand that's wrapping on there and doing it.
[12:58] Speaker 3: I mean, the strong hand does some, but it's not
[13:01] Speaker 3: the majority of that pulling in. Because if you don't
[13:03] Speaker 3: crush through that subcutaneous layer, then you're kind of firing
[13:06] Speaker 3: on this water water bag.
[13:09] Speaker 2: You got to pull over that muscle.
[13:10] Speaker 3: Yeah, you got to drive into there, you know, and
[13:13] Speaker 3: I'm guilty of it. But the vert crips have their
[13:16] Speaker 3: time and their place. If the vert grip helps you
[13:19] Speaker 3: run your flashlight and a tactical operation, that's fine. But
[13:22] Speaker 3: I guarantee you when you start working around, you know,
[13:25] Speaker 3: small holes that you need to fire through, whether it's
[13:28] Speaker 3: windows or firing off and around pieces of cover, the
[13:31] Speaker 3: thing gets in the way.
[13:33] Speaker 1: I think this is a good transition of how classes
[13:37] Speaker 1: can help you test gear and really figure out run
[13:42] Speaker 1: what works because you can put it on there, but
[13:45] Speaker 1: if you don't run the gun a bunch, you won't know.
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[16:00] Speaker 1: What if you could be significantly better with your firearms
[16:03] Speaker 1: in a short time. At range Ready Studios, we offer
[16:06] Speaker 1: handgun and rifle classes to help you be the best.
[16:09] Speaker 2: You can be.
[16:10] Speaker 1: You'll be safer, more competent, and just better at the range.
[16:13] Speaker 1: We also offer special experience classes which include the gun,
[16:17] Speaker 1: the ammo, the gear and the training. Learn more at
[16:21] Speaker 1: Rangereadystudios dot com. So Chris, the fact of the matter
[16:25] Speaker 1: is people like to put a lot of stuff on
[16:28] Speaker 1: their guns. But a lot of times they put on
[16:30] Speaker 1: their guns, they take pictures of it, they say, isn't
[16:32] Speaker 1: this neat, but they don't test it. And going to
[16:36] Speaker 1: a class is a great way to test your gear.
[16:39] Speaker 3: Well, and that was said this week too, and the
[16:41] Speaker 3: car being portion especially because people always say, well, I
[16:45] Speaker 3: guess that's what training's for, find out what works and
[16:48] Speaker 3: what doesn't.
[16:49] Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding.
[16:51] Speaker 3: People operate in unconscious incompetence a lot until they go
[16:58] Speaker 3: to training.
[16:59] Speaker 1: Right, Well, they like what they've put on the gun
[17:04] Speaker 1: or you see, you know, like the bagpollar a wedge thing.
[17:06] Speaker 1: It's not that it's bad, I mean it's good for
[17:09] Speaker 1: certain things.
[17:10] Speaker 2: I'm a slender handguard, it can be fantastic.
[17:12] Speaker 1: Neat, that's neat, But like, what is the purpose of
[17:15] Speaker 1: it is? What are we doing right now?
[17:18] Speaker 3: And then it's in one spot. Remember it's in one spot.
[17:20] Speaker 3: Once you put it on, you can't really change. You
[17:22] Speaker 3: can work around it here and there, but then you're
[17:24] Speaker 3: not using it. So you know, find a place where
[17:28] Speaker 3: it's going to work. Figure out what it does for you.
[17:30] Speaker 3: If you have it on a slender handguard where you
[17:32] Speaker 3: can actually grab the wedge and the handguard, man, how
[17:35] Speaker 3: great is that? I mean, it's going to give you
[17:36] Speaker 3: all kinds of force to pull that gu en to
[17:38] Speaker 3: you and control it. And I'm not saying any of
[17:41] Speaker 3: this stuff is bad. It's just that there's a time
[17:43] Speaker 3: and a place for everything. And people come to training
[17:47] Speaker 3: and they say, man, I guess that's what that's what
[17:49] Speaker 3: training's for. Like the slings they got. They got these
[17:52] Speaker 3: slings that are really really nice, but then they don't
[17:56] Speaker 3: do what they need them to do, or they've got
[17:58] Speaker 3: them mounted incorrectly.
[18:00] Speaker 1: What do you see people do that's incorrect on their slings?
[18:04] Speaker 3: They will mount them around the handguard sometimes and then
[18:09] Speaker 3: they have a big attachment and their hand gets in
[18:11] Speaker 3: the way, so then that sling is in the way
[18:14] Speaker 3: of their hand being able to manipulate the safety selector.
[18:17] Speaker 3: People ask me, you know, we've had Blue Force gear
[18:20] Speaker 3: here to run classes with us, and they like to
[18:22] Speaker 3: run their slings out far. Well, the little guy that
[18:26] Speaker 3: ran his sling out far, he goes, well, why do
[18:28] Speaker 3: you run yours enclose? I said, I run in close
[18:30] Speaker 3: because I don't use my sling for support. I don't
[18:33] Speaker 3: wrap into my sling ever. My sling is just a
[18:35] Speaker 3: holster for my gun. I said, this is what you
[18:39] Speaker 3: can do with it out there. He goes, oh, I
[18:41] Speaker 3: like that. I'm going to leave it like that, And I.
[18:42] Speaker 2: Said, yeah, you should do whatever works for you.
[18:45] Speaker 3: Well, then it was in his way every time he
[18:47] Speaker 3: tried to manipulate the gun. He goes, I'm going to
[18:49] Speaker 3: have to move this back because every time I do
[18:52] Speaker 3: something with my arm, I hit it.
[18:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I mean going back to the hole. Well,
[18:57] Speaker 1: now you've run the gun a bunch in a multi
[18:59] Speaker 1: day class and you go, you know this doesn't work anymore?
[19:03] Speaker 1: Or like maybe something I find this is true on
[19:05] Speaker 1: pistols too. You like it, you think you like it. It
[19:09] Speaker 1: feels good. Let's talk about grip texture or whatever. But
[19:14] Speaker 1: then you run it for two or three days and
[19:18] Speaker 1: you're like, dude, I need more. I need more texture
[19:20] Speaker 1: on this. My hands are sweaty, and the guns.
[19:22] Speaker 3: Like, look the way this feels. It's not too aggressive
[19:26] Speaker 3: you really want it not too.
[19:27] Speaker 1: Aggressive, or it's super aggressive and your hands are getting
[19:31] Speaker 1: raw after three days of shooting, and you're going, Holy spokes. Now,
[19:34] Speaker 1: maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe you can have super aggressive
[19:37] Speaker 1: texture on your pistol, on a pistol that you don't have.
[19:42] Speaker 1: You're not running a three day class for it. Like well,
[19:44] Speaker 1: in the moment at you know, the seven to eleven
[19:47] Speaker 1: when I need it, I grip it and I shoot it.
[19:50] Speaker 1: Hands aren't getting raw. Who cares?
[19:52] Speaker 2: Sure? That could be true? Right?
[19:55] Speaker 3: Like the people that text youre up underneath the trigger garden.
[19:57] Speaker 3: It's like I even put them up here because it
[20:00] Speaker 3: gives me a little bite, Like, yeah, it might wear
[20:04] Speaker 3: you out after a little while. Oh yeah, by the way,
[20:06] Speaker 3: that's wearing me out. What can I do?
[20:08] Speaker 2: I don't know.
[20:08] Speaker 3: Here's a cigarette lighter, heat it up and just let
[20:11] Speaker 3: it flatten itself out and then it takes care of itself.
[20:14] Speaker 2: You know, that's right?
[20:17] Speaker 1: What else are you know with carbing specifically? What else
[20:21] Speaker 1: is on your list?
[20:22] Speaker 3: Well, when I see a junkie dot that comes in
[20:25] Speaker 3: like something that should be on an airsoft gun, I
[20:28] Speaker 3: have a really hard time saying hey, So I usually
[20:33] Speaker 3: what I say is hey, I hope it works. I mean,
[20:37] Speaker 3: because we had one that was I mean it wiggled,
[20:40] Speaker 3: it moved, the housing moved, and he's like, oh, I
[20:44] Speaker 3: was shooting dime sized groups off the bench at the
[20:46] Speaker 3: range last week and the thing wiggled and moved. When
[20:52] Speaker 3: you turned the directional controls to zero it there's just tension,
[20:57] Speaker 3: no clicks, So it's like a guess game. The red
[21:02] Speaker 3: dot itself was like it was a circle dot, but
[21:05] Speaker 3: it wasn't a standard size like was sixty five moa
[21:08] Speaker 3: outside circle with a dot in the middle. It was
[21:10] Speaker 3: just this tiny, tiny little circle with a dot in
[21:13] Speaker 3: the middle.
[21:13] Speaker 2: I mean it's airsoft stuff, you know, right, right, So
[21:17] Speaker 2: then it wasn't shooting straight and I'm like, well, let
[21:20] Speaker 2: me shoot your gun, because I mean I can shoot
[21:23] Speaker 2: a gun.
[21:25] Speaker 3: I can shoot a gun. I just shot other guns. Fine,
[21:29] Speaker 3: And I get down on it and I put one
[21:32] Speaker 3: every three inches, including off the sider target paper, and
[21:37] Speaker 3: I'm like, all right, there's something wrong with this gun.
[21:40] Speaker 3: So then we finally we shoot it enough that we're struggling, struggling, struggling,
[21:44] Speaker 3: we take it. We just put use the iron sights
[21:46] Speaker 3: and then we can shoot it and shoot straight.
[21:48] Speaker 1: Well, it's so hard when you're training. I mean, yes,
[21:52] Speaker 1: vetting your gear is a benefit of training. I don't
[21:54] Speaker 1: know that it's the reason to go to a training class.
[21:57] Speaker 1: Like the reason to go a training class to me
[21:59] Speaker 1: is to improve your skills and learn what you need
[22:03] Speaker 1: to work on and vet your gear. And it's helpful
[22:06] Speaker 1: that you can vet your gear there, but you don't
[22:09] Speaker 1: want it doesn't need to be an experiment for two days.
[22:12] Speaker 1: Like it's really hard to train.
[22:13] Speaker 2: Be an experiment.
[22:14] Speaker 1: No, it's not. That's not the point of this, right,
[22:16] Speaker 1: Like it's really hard to train because if you're all
[22:20] Speaker 1: over the target, Chris is gonna go, well, is he
[22:24] Speaker 1: shooting poorly? Or is the is the gun not?
[22:28] Speaker 2: No, Chris says, what are you doing over there? Do
[22:31] Speaker 2: you mind if I shoot that real quick? And then
[22:33] Speaker 2: I shoot it and I'm like, yeah, she's great. Uh,
[22:36] Speaker 2: let's work on something and then we know we need
[22:39] Speaker 2: to work on something. But like, where you're.
[22:41] Speaker 3: Going with this is what I have one of my
[22:42] Speaker 3: other notes in here. It's like, all right, so you
[22:45] Speaker 3: spend six hundred dollars on a class, right, and you
[22:49] Speaker 3: come in here with a single ply kmart leather belt
[22:54] Speaker 3: and your stuff is hanging off, Your pants are falling down,
[22:57] Speaker 3: you can't get it tight enough, the gun won't stay
[23:00] Speaker 3: in one place.
[23:01] Speaker 2: You're struggling with that for two or three days.
[23:05] Speaker 3: Because you don't spend sixty dollars on a good belt.
[23:08] Speaker 2: Well, what's a good belt? Well, the one guy says
[23:11] Speaker 2: to me.
[23:11] Speaker 3: He said, well, the link on your website didn't work
[23:14] Speaker 3: for the slings that you that you kind of recommend,
[23:17] Speaker 3: Like I have a couple slings I really like, and
[23:19] Speaker 3: of course I like tab gear. I've used it for
[23:23] Speaker 3: years and years. It works really well for me. Okay,
[23:27] Speaker 3: he says, well, but the website didn't work, so I
[23:30] Speaker 3: just bought this. I said, did you want to email
[23:33] Speaker 3: me and let me know that the link on the
[23:35] Speaker 3: website He goes, yeah, Now that I've done this and
[23:37] Speaker 3: I've bought this and it was incorrect, and I see
[23:40] Speaker 3: what you have and I like that. I wish I
[23:43] Speaker 3: would have said something, So a thousand dollars rifle and
[23:47] Speaker 3: they won't spend seventy five bucks on a good sling.
[23:49] Speaker 3: Let's spend thirty five dollars on a strap.
[23:52] Speaker 1: Yeah, you're going to spend seventy bucks on dinner. You know,
[24:00] Speaker 1: I'm going to go have a steak in a glass
[24:02] Speaker 1: of line, you know, Like, dude, that's that's something that's
[24:06] Speaker 1: holding your gun there. I mean, we're talking about it.
[24:08] Speaker 1: Especially this is I mean, for the most part, this
[24:12] Speaker 1: is defensive youth stuff. So I'm gonna repeat the old
[24:16] Speaker 1: Tom Gresham slogan of like you don't want to buy
[24:19] Speaker 1: the cheap parachute, whether that's guns or slings or optics
[24:24] Speaker 1: or whatever.
[24:24] Speaker 3: And I have some of those things I've had for
[24:27] Speaker 3: so for as many as twenty years now, and they.
[24:29] Speaker 2: Still work, they're still serviceable.
[24:31] Speaker 3: And I still use them, and I still buy new
[24:32] Speaker 3: ones every once in a while because I used to
[24:34] Speaker 3: have so many more, but I keep loaning them ounta
[24:37] Speaker 3: and then they disappear.
[24:39] Speaker 2: But the sling is to the rifle what a holster
[24:41] Speaker 2: is to a pistol. So you know you can buy
[24:44] Speaker 2: this cheap, you know, not even Kaydeks.
[24:47] Speaker 3: These these people come in with these holsters that are
[24:49] Speaker 3: just they're the reason they buy them is because they're
[24:53] Speaker 3: at the gun store. They're on a rack and there's
[24:56] Speaker 3: a whole I bought this gun, here's what I have.
[25:00] Speaker 2: Oh, here's the holster for you.
[25:01] Speaker 3: There you go, and they buy it because people still
[25:04] Speaker 3: don't know that the internet exists. And I hate to
[25:07] Speaker 3: say that because the brick and mortar places, they're still
[25:10] Speaker 3: family businesses.
[25:11] Speaker 1: We love them, we love them, support of.
[25:13] Speaker 3: Them, freaking buy put good stuff on your shelves. There
[25:17] Speaker 3: are stores that do that.
[25:18] Speaker 1: It's and there's certain categories. I mean, this is something
[25:21] Speaker 1: that people in them to know. There's certain categories of
[25:24] Speaker 1: product that's just very difficult for a gun store, holsters
[25:29] Speaker 1: being one of them. Yeah, dude, can you imagine being
[25:31] Speaker 1: a gun store and obviously carrying them all And if
[25:35] Speaker 1: you're in retail, you have to stock this stuff and
[25:38] Speaker 1: you don't want to just sit on the shelf. You
[25:40] Speaker 1: want to move, So holsters are impossible. If I was
[25:43] Speaker 1: a gun store, I'm not sure I would even stock holdsters.
[25:45] Speaker 1: I'd be like, listen, I was.
[25:47] Speaker 3: Doing an affiliate program with somebody and everybody I referred
[25:51] Speaker 3: to them, I would get a co say you think
[25:52] Speaker 3: about it.
[25:52] Speaker 1: I mean, any holster company you talk to, They're like, dude,
[25:54] Speaker 1: we have like four thousand skews, how's that possible? We
[25:59] Speaker 1: have a hundred SKUs for glock.
[26:02] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[26:02] Speaker 1: Is it right handed or left handed? Is it inside
[26:05] Speaker 1: the waistband or outside the waist?
[26:06] Speaker 2: We've got twenty SKUs just for the M and P.
[26:09] Speaker 2: Yeah it smith get.
[26:10] Speaker 1: A light light bearing or not light bearing?
[26:13] Speaker 2: Right?
[26:14] Speaker 1: Does it? Is it optics ready or not optics ready?
[26:17] Speaker 1: Those are just and we even haven't even talked about models.
[26:20] Speaker 3: Yeah, barrel length, trigger car, trigger guard, Uh, the way
[26:25] Speaker 3: they're created.
[26:25] Speaker 2: I mean, and then then these come.
[26:27] Speaker 3: Then these pistol companies change something about the slide cut,
[26:33] Speaker 3: or they change the width of the trigger guard or
[26:36] Speaker 3: something just simple, and all of a sudden, everything's gone.
[26:40] Speaker 2: It's all different.
[26:41] Speaker 1: Chris, we got to talk about because people will say, Okay, fine,
[26:46] Speaker 1: I want to go attend to class, but how do
[26:50] Speaker 1: I know which class to take? How do I know
[26:52] Speaker 1: if it's going to be any good? It's a it's
[26:54] Speaker 1: a bunch of money, which we appreciate that it's cost
[26:57] Speaker 1: hundreds of dollars, even thousands of dollars. If you're going
[26:59] Speaker 1: to travel, and then what happens if you get there
[27:03] Speaker 1: and the instructor is a jerk or unsafe?
[27:08] Speaker 2: What do you do?
[27:09] Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about all that right after this. FN
[27:13] Speaker 1: has launched four new products for the US commercial market.
[27:16] Speaker 1: The FN three oh nine MRD is an easy to rack,
[27:19] Speaker 1: easy to load self defence pistol designed for peace of
[27:23] Speaker 1: mind performance. FN also improved a legend with the next
[27:27] Speaker 1: generation of SCAR series, now with twenty five innovative upgrades
[27:31] Speaker 1: and no price increase. The next generation of SCAR is
[27:34] Speaker 1: suppress or capable, especially with FN's brand new forward venting suppressors,
[27:41] Speaker 1: the FN QD seven six two and the FN QD
[27:46] Speaker 1: five five six. Visit fnamerica dot com slash gun talk
[27:51] Speaker 1: to learn more. One of the nice features about the
[27:54] Speaker 1: e FLEXCEE is a programmable sleep mode that powers down
[27:58] Speaker 1: the optic as well as shake awake technology that powers
[28:01] Speaker 1: the optic backup with just the slightest movement. The three
[28:06] Speaker 1: redicals to choose from. That's kind of nice, and it's
[28:09] Speaker 1: designed to fit the Delta point pro or the RMSC footprint.
[28:14] Speaker 1: The e flex ce from Eotech is sure to be
[28:17] Speaker 1: a great addition to any optics ready pistol. All right,
[28:21] Speaker 1: let's talk about the new Taurus TX nine series, because
[28:25] Speaker 1: sometimes you want a nine milimeter that's straightforward, reliable, and
[28:29] Speaker 1: doesn't require a second mortgage to actually shoot it a lot.
[28:33] Speaker 1: The TX nine is built for the stuff that matters.
[28:35] Speaker 1: Solid ergonomics, easy handling, and the kind of shootability that
[28:40] Speaker 1: makes practice feel less like training and more like hey,
[28:44] Speaker 1: one more mag If you're shopping for a new nine
[28:47] Speaker 1: milimeter for the range, home defense, or just to do
[28:49] Speaker 1: it all pistol, the TX nine series is worth a look.
[28:54] Speaker 1: Looking to level up your hunt or tighten up those groups, well,
[28:57] Speaker 1: look no further than rimming to Namo. Yeah, the stuff
[29:00] Speaker 1: in the green box is super accurate, and they've got
[29:03] Speaker 1: everything from hunting AMMO shot shells, rim fire match Ammo.
[29:08] Speaker 1: So check those out. Under rifle. They've got the Premiere line,
[29:12] Speaker 1: the premier ACU tip, the premier long range, Premiere match handgun.
[29:16] Speaker 1: They've got even corlocked handgun of course, Golden saber. You
[29:20] Speaker 1: know it, you love it, you trust it, wheel gun,
[29:23] Speaker 1: Ammo shotshell. It doesn't matter if you're target shooting or
[29:26] Speaker 1: hunting They've got a lot of different options for you,
[29:29] Speaker 1: and then of course rimfire. It's kind of the go
[29:31] Speaker 1: to all in that green box remming TOAMMO. So you
[29:36] Speaker 1: want to get training, you pay all this money, you
[29:39] Speaker 1: take time off from work, you travel, you show up
[29:42] Speaker 1: with all of your gear, excited to learn, and the
[29:45] Speaker 1: guy's a fricke pull.
[29:46] Speaker 2: What do you do? Man?
[29:50] Speaker 3: We're really starting off strong here, aren't we. I'll tell
[29:53] Speaker 3: you what it's happened. I've heard people that have said
[29:56] Speaker 3: they've walked out of classes, mostly due to safety. But
[30:00] Speaker 3: I just recently had a story for an absolute jerk that.
[30:03] Speaker 2: Just you know. I mean, listen. Uh.
[30:07] Speaker 3: Usually, if I get somebody shooting well on the line,
[30:10] Speaker 3: I don't beat them down. I find the details that
[30:13] Speaker 3: are going to make them shoot even better than they are.
[30:16] Speaker 3: But I just heard a story about one of my
[30:19] Speaker 3: guys shooting and doing a great job, and the instructor
[30:22] Speaker 3: was up his rear end about how his groups were
[30:26] Speaker 3: too tight and he wasn't investing himself in the training.
[30:30] Speaker 1: Let's let's let's let's get into the groups too tight thing, Chris,
[30:33] Speaker 1: Because this is a weird thing that still keeps floating
[30:37] Speaker 1: around on the Internet that people will say, you got
[30:42] Speaker 1: to spread out your shots.
[30:44] Speaker 2: I'll tell you what.
[30:45] Speaker 3: If anybody tells you to spread out your shots, what
[30:47] Speaker 3: you do is you say, number one, you hand the
[30:50] Speaker 3: instructor your gun, because that instructor doesn't even have a
[30:53] Speaker 3: gun on.
[30:56] Speaker 1: Right, because he's not gonna shoot in front of people.
[30:57] Speaker 2: No, he's not gonna shoot in front of you. And
[30:58] Speaker 2: you hand him your gun and you say, okay, I
[31:00] Speaker 2: would like to see you spread out the shots, but
[31:02] Speaker 2: can you do it for me like this?
[31:04] Speaker 3: Would you put one in the head, one in each shoulder,
[31:06] Speaker 3: one in the chest, one in the belly button, and
[31:08] Speaker 3: one in each chip.
[31:08] Speaker 2: Socket for me? Please?
[31:10] Speaker 3: That would be to me spreading out your shots, because
[31:12] Speaker 3: that would be intentional? Would it not be correct? Right? So,
[31:16] Speaker 3: right away you've got to tell people to piss Offically.
[31:22] Speaker 1: What we're saying is bread shots.
[31:24] Speaker 2: It's yes, yeah, because I'll tell you what.
[31:26] Speaker 3: We're shooting at a piece of paper that's glued to
[31:28] Speaker 3: cardboard staple to a stick. It's not moving or shooting
[31:31] Speaker 3: back at you. Do I need to say that again?
[31:33] Speaker 1: Say it again?
[31:33] Speaker 2: Okay, We're shooting at.
[31:35] Speaker 3: A piece of paper glued to cardboard staple to a stick,
[31:37] Speaker 3: it's not moving or shooting back at you.
[31:39] Speaker 1: What happens when it does start shooting back at you.
[31:42] Speaker 3: Well, you'll wish to God you could put those tight
[31:44] Speaker 3: groups on that on that target when it too is
[31:46] Speaker 3: dynamic and start shooting back at you, you wish you
[31:49] Speaker 3: could place your shots, because.
[31:52] Speaker 2: That is super hard.
[31:54] Speaker 3: Even I have a hard time with it shooting any
[31:56] Speaker 3: kind of moving target or where things go dynamic, because
[32:00] Speaker 3: in a dynamic world, we have to have a defense
[32:03] Speaker 3: for a trained technique, Like I train people to make
[32:06] Speaker 3: every shot count right, because when it goes dynamic, there's
[32:10] Speaker 3: a really good chance that everybody is gonna miss. Anybody
[32:14] Speaker 3: can miss if I let you shoot terrible and I
[32:17] Speaker 3: tell you.
[32:18] Speaker 2: To, oh make bigger groups.
[32:19] Speaker 3: Oh look at that, Hey, look at that, you got
[32:22] Speaker 3: them all on the cardboard. I mean makes my stomach
[32:26] Speaker 3: sick just thinking about it. It's like I'm moving as
[32:28] Speaker 3: fast as I can. I'm I'm locked in. I am
[32:33] Speaker 3: sorry that they're all going through the same spot. When
[32:35] Speaker 3: I shoot demos, sometimes I'll shoot two rounds and they
[32:37] Speaker 3: go through the same hole because the gun rises and falls,
[32:40] Speaker 3: and if I do the same thing twice, chances are
[32:43] Speaker 3: I might get the same result twice, So don't talk
[32:47] Speaker 3: to me about that. But yeah, so you get speed
[32:50] Speaker 3: up about you know, his shooting too tight, he's not
[32:53] Speaker 3: invested in the training, whatever, whatever the guy wants to
[32:57] Speaker 3: say to him.
[32:58] Speaker 2: And this is one of the most humble, studious guys
[33:02] Speaker 2: that I know. He's been to a lot of training,
[33:04] Speaker 2: a lot of training.
[33:06] Speaker 3: Yeah, and then we hear from other people in the
[33:09] Speaker 3: class that they're also experiencing the same type of.
[33:14] Speaker 2: Discontent with the instructor.
[33:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, Chris, what is that because it doesn't happen all
[33:19] Speaker 1: the time, but no, it definitely happens where shooting instructors.
[33:26] Speaker 1: Occasionally you get this person who's kind of unreasonable or
[33:29] Speaker 1: a jerk or not helpful or whatever.
[33:32] Speaker 2: It is. It a case of.
[33:34] Speaker 1: They come from a law enforcement or military background, and
[33:38] Speaker 1: the old school way is there's it's sort of that, Well,
[33:41] Speaker 1: I was taught by the drill sergeant who was an
[33:43] Speaker 1: asshole to me, so I'm going to be an asshole
[33:45] Speaker 1: to everybody else. Like it's like they're all trying to
[33:48] Speaker 1: qualify and like, no, actually, these are just regular citizens
[33:52] Speaker 1: who paid their own money. The department didn't send them here.
[33:55] Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And I don't know what sets me apart
[33:58] Speaker 3: from from other people other than the fact that my
[34:01] Speaker 3: training is based on the sum of my experiences, because
[34:04] Speaker 3: I really haven't trained.
[34:06] Speaker 2: I mean, I have a bunch of certificated.
[34:08] Speaker 1: Whys and why does this happen? What is your theory
[34:10] Speaker 1: of why someone is this?
[34:11] Speaker 2: Egos?
[34:13] Speaker 3: Egos get in the way people. You know, I don't
[34:16] Speaker 3: want you to be better than me. You know, I
[34:17] Speaker 3: call you out and you shoot a demo. If you
[34:19] Speaker 3: do really well and I expect you to screw up,
[34:21] Speaker 3: you know what I say. You've probably been there when
[34:23] Speaker 3: I say it, and I go, well, that's not exactly
[34:25] Speaker 3: what I expected to happen. Let's see if we can
[34:27] Speaker 3: get somebody who can do it wrong. I mean, I'm
[34:30] Speaker 3: glad he did it right. I'm glad he did a
[34:31] Speaker 3: good job. I'm never disappointed by that. I want people
[34:34] Speaker 3: to shoot as good or better than me.
[34:36] Speaker 2: I don't get it, Ryan, I don't get it. You
[34:39] Speaker 2: know how I am.
[34:39] Speaker 3: I mean, I yell because I care, and the beatings
[34:42] Speaker 3: will continue until performance improves. But I also sprinkle that
[34:48] Speaker 3: with humor and self deprecating humor, and I will deprecate
[34:51] Speaker 3: you as well, because when you screw up and you say, yeah,
[34:55] Speaker 3: I saw that.
[34:56] Speaker 2: I even felt that.
[34:57] Speaker 3: We laugh about it together and we move forward because
[35:00] Speaker 3: mistakes are experience, you know. We get so much experience
[35:04] Speaker 3: in classes from all that, And why would.
[35:06] Speaker 2: You be a jerk. Why would you be a jerk to.
[35:08] Speaker 3: People that spent their money to train with you, unless,
[35:11] Speaker 3: of course, this is a class that they have to
[35:14] Speaker 3: go to to maintain their certification with your company.
[35:19] Speaker 1: Hmm, could be something there, I mean, but it's just
[35:23] Speaker 1: it is. It is a weird thing. I think.
[35:25] Speaker 2: Great, that was a very Gutfeld move right there with
[35:28] Speaker 2: that film.
[35:30] Speaker 1: Well, you know, I think that some people forget the
[35:34] Speaker 1: business they're in. It's kind of like, well, I'm here
[35:38] Speaker 1: to yell at you, like I'm here to we're because
[35:41] Speaker 1: we're shooting guns. We're gonna pretend we're all you know
[35:45] Speaker 1: that that you've entered the academy or yeah we're tactical
[35:49] Speaker 1: or whatever, like listen, I want to get better, but
[35:54] Speaker 1: I also am here to have fun. I don't want
[35:57] Speaker 1: to be.
[35:57] Speaker 3: If you're not having fun, you can't learn anything. Grain
[36:01] Speaker 3: only absorb what the ass can endure. And if your
[36:04] Speaker 3: ass is constantly getting chewed, you're not absorbing anything.
[36:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, it drives me nuts.
[36:09] Speaker 1: Yeah, what's the best class that you've ever been to?
[36:13] Speaker 1: Because you actually take classes in addition to yeah, you do.
[36:17] Speaker 2: I mean I do once in a while, I mean
[36:20] Speaker 2: I go to I go.
[36:21] Speaker 3: My blessing is that I've got to shoot with some
[36:23] Speaker 3: of the best people in the world, and that's my
[36:26] Speaker 3: big thing. And I have been in some great classes
[36:29] Speaker 3: and the problem the thing for me is all the
[36:32] Speaker 3: classes they want to speed me up because they think
[36:35] Speaker 3: I want to be the fastest in the world, so
[36:37] Speaker 3: they give me the little details that can speed me up.
[36:41] Speaker 3: But since I do what I do with you guys,
[36:43] Speaker 3: and we shoot so many different guns, I can't apply
[36:45] Speaker 3: them all because I'm.
[36:46] Speaker 2: Not the one guy with one specialist.
[36:48] Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, we actually try to be generalists here.
[36:51] Speaker 2: I'm a generalist, right, And then what I get is
[36:54] Speaker 2: I get nuggets. I get little cool drills. But I
[36:57] Speaker 2: also have to see.
[36:58] Speaker 3: The value in a drill, like is it a thinking drill,
[37:01] Speaker 3: is it a grip drill? Is it you know, you know,
[37:04] Speaker 3: grip sites and trigger type of drill? You know, how
[37:07] Speaker 3: can I apply this that it makes me better? And
[37:09] Speaker 3: that's kind of cool, But I haven't you know. I'll
[37:12] Speaker 3: tell you what. One of the best things I did
[37:13] Speaker 3: was when we went up to six hour. We had
[37:15] Speaker 3: a great time. And going to those instructor level classes
[37:19] Speaker 3: like that, if you can get into them.
[37:21] Speaker 2: It's great. I love it. I love I just I
[37:26] Speaker 2: like to learn new things.
[37:27] Speaker 3: I like to hear somebody say the same thing I'm
[37:29] Speaker 3: saying or I've been saying for years, but say it
[37:32] Speaker 3: completely different and then and then my brain goes, wow,
[37:37] Speaker 3: the way you said that, because that's exactly what I mean,
[37:40] Speaker 3: except I don't say it that way.
[37:41] Speaker 1: Sure, it's a new way to explain it. Yes, And
[37:43] Speaker 1: you kind of have to do that.
[37:44] Speaker 2: I think as a teacher is you have.
[37:46] Speaker 1: To find like several different ways to say the same
[37:50] Speaker 1: thing because it may resonate with somebody in a different way.
[37:54] Speaker 3: Like I like going to gunsighte. You know, I like
[37:57] Speaker 3: going up there. I just enjoy I enjoy shooting with
[38:00] Speaker 3: their people. I know that the instructors kind of teach
[38:04] Speaker 3: to the they teach to the lesson planned, but they
[38:08] Speaker 3: know more and when they know you, or if you've
[38:11] Speaker 3: been there a few times, they probably give you extra
[38:13] Speaker 3: little nuggets and things so they'll come up to you
[38:15] Speaker 3: and say stuff, Well.
[38:16] Speaker 1: It's a balance, right, you can you can only you know,
[38:18] Speaker 1: you can't get into the level two type of information
[38:22] Speaker 1: if you're still working on the level one information with
[38:25] Speaker 1: right jewelry of the class. It's kind of tricky that way.
[38:27] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this last this weekend's class was pistol
[38:30] Speaker 3: and carbing. It was essential skills. What do you think
[38:32] Speaker 3: that means? It means it's essential skills. I give you
[38:35] Speaker 3: what I think you need to get your journey started.
[38:39] Speaker 2: But everybody was.
[38:40] Speaker 3: That was there except for well, I mean two people
[38:43] Speaker 3: hadn't taken a class ever, but their skill levels were good,
[38:47] Speaker 3: so it was like we could do a little bit more,
[38:49] Speaker 3: and so we did a little bit more. But as
[38:52] Speaker 3: soon as I did anything that was that involved thinking
[38:55] Speaker 3: while shooting, they come on glued, all of them really,
[38:58] Speaker 3: And I'm like, everybody wants advanced training. There is no
[39:01] Speaker 3: advanced training. There's advanced applications of the basics.
[39:05] Speaker 2: So we do a.
[39:06] Speaker 3: Simple reload drill and they look like a frog looking
[39:10] Speaker 3: at a wristwatch a monkey humping on a football.
[39:13] Speaker 2: I don't know, because it's a mess.
[39:14] Speaker 3: It's like a turkey noodle hogy, which is a soup sandwich,
[39:17] Speaker 3: but it's on a paper plate. It gets you know,
[39:20] Speaker 3: It's like, let's make it worse. You're a You're a
[39:22] Speaker 3: soup sandwich man, a turkey noodle hogy on a paper plate.
[39:26] Speaker 2: What is that? Well, that's a mess. It's a mess.
[39:30] Speaker 2: But I'm like, tell me what is advanced about any
[39:32] Speaker 2: of this?
[39:34] Speaker 3: Drawing a pistol from the holster, shooting a shot, doing
[39:37] Speaker 3: a reload after that, firing two more after that, keeping
[39:41] Speaker 3: the gun in your hand when you bend over, because
[39:43] Speaker 3: who lets you do that on the range?
[39:45] Speaker 1: Well, that's what I was gonna say, Chris, is even
[39:47] Speaker 1: people who shoot often and maybe shoot well as far
[39:52] Speaker 1: as the bullet goes where they're aiming, they don't get
[39:57] Speaker 1: to do those types of drills a lot of places, right,
[40:00] Speaker 1: I mean, you're gonna get held at at a lot
[40:03] Speaker 1: of public ranges if you do a reload, like you
[40:07] Speaker 1: drop a magazine and put a new magazine in the gun.
[40:10] Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, how dare you?
[40:12] Speaker 3: And then your mag bounces out in front of the line.
[40:14] Speaker 3: They have to shut everything down so a guy can
[40:16] Speaker 3: get a little broom and scoop it back to you.
[40:19] Speaker 1: I get it, Like it's it's a public range. It's
[40:21] Speaker 1: it's tricky. You're kind of having You definitely have her
[40:23] Speaker 1: going for the lowest common denominator. You have to keep
[40:28] Speaker 1: people kind of moving through.
[40:29] Speaker 3: Well, whatever you do most often is what you're going
[40:31] Speaker 3: to do when you have no time to think. And
[40:33] Speaker 3: if all you've ever done is use your mag out
[40:35] Speaker 3: and sit on a table and you're not drawn from
[40:38] Speaker 3: a holster and never drop the magazine to the ground, yes,
[40:41] Speaker 3: give me a daunting task.
[40:43] Speaker 1: It's do you ever have a people you're like, just
[40:47] Speaker 1: you hit the button, you just let the mag fall
[40:49] Speaker 1: all the way to the ground. Do they look at
[40:50] Speaker 1: you like, oh.
[40:51] Speaker 2: No, oh, they can't stop easing it.
[40:53] Speaker 3: And I'll be like, let the mag fall and they're like,
[40:55] Speaker 3: oh yeah, like it's a hot potato, you.
[40:57] Speaker 2: Know, and then they reach for the next one.
[40:59] Speaker 1: It's gonna break.
[41:01] Speaker 2: I think there's.
[41:01] Speaker 3: People like that back in the old days training cops
[41:04] Speaker 3: man especially under or ranges with cement floors, we broke mags.
[41:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, but they would be so worried. And I was like, listen,
[41:11] Speaker 2: if your magazine breaks, you can get a new one.
[41:14] Speaker 2: You can get a new one. You probably might even
[41:16] Speaker 2: need it. If it breaks that easy, right, yeah?
[41:19] Speaker 3: But yeah, like so then you know, then you move
[41:21] Speaker 3: to the reload, and then you've got to bend over
[41:22] Speaker 3: with a loaded gun in your hand. But think about this,
[41:27] Speaker 3: how many people let you bend over a loaded gun
[41:29] Speaker 3: in your hand to pick something up next to nobody?
[41:33] Speaker 2: Might you ever have to do that?
[41:35] Speaker 3: Because that magazine that you're picking up off the deck
[41:37] Speaker 3: to reset the drill can symbolize what your car keys,
[41:43] Speaker 3: your cell phone, the magazine that was in your gun.
[41:47] Speaker 2: Maybe it fell out. I don't know what it could be.
[41:50] Speaker 3: Maybe it's your glasses and you absolutely need them to
[41:53] Speaker 3: get out of there. You know, that magazine symbolizes anything
[41:57] Speaker 3: you want it to be. And should I be putting
[42:00] Speaker 3: my gun away?
[42:01] Speaker 2: If I? If I can, I.
[42:02] Speaker 1: Should if I just had to shoot in self defense? Right,
[42:07] Speaker 1: should I be rushing to put the gun away?
[42:09] Speaker 2: Exactly?
[42:10] Speaker 3: So, now I bend over with the gun in my hand,
[42:12] Speaker 3: which is, oh my god, Heaven forbid, oh my goodness,
[42:16] Speaker 3: we can't do that. So then you give them that responsibility.
[42:19] Speaker 3: Then they do a magazine exchange, which is manipulation skills,
[42:23] Speaker 3: which is great, okay, Oh, but you're teaching them to
[42:25] Speaker 3: put an empty mag back in the gun.
[42:27] Speaker 2: No, we're not.
[42:28] Speaker 3: We're going through administrative motions and weapon handling skills.
[42:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you have to reset the trill.
[42:32] Speaker 3: All make believe is over. Now we're working on skills.
[42:36] Speaker 3: Then we're reset for the drill. But what you know,
[42:39] Speaker 3: people think? You know I'm not going to be there
[42:41] Speaker 3: when you leave and you go to the gas station
[42:43] Speaker 3: down the street here and you get in your shooting
[42:46] Speaker 3: and something's on the ground. You're looking at your phone
[42:48] Speaker 3: and the shooting happens. You drop your phone to engage,
[42:51] Speaker 3: and now I need that phone. Have you ever taken
[42:54] Speaker 3: your brain there? Have you ever gone there?
[42:56] Speaker 2: No? It was my car keys. How do I get
[42:58] Speaker 2: away from this situation with that my car keys? Well,
[43:00] Speaker 2: I guess I better put my gun away.
[43:02] Speaker 1: It is funny because it's such a little simple thing,
[43:04] Speaker 1: and maybe someone listening to this will go, well, why
[43:08] Speaker 1: do I need to practice that? But I guess here's
[43:10] Speaker 1: the thing. Have you ever shot your gun and bent
[43:16] Speaker 1: down or dealed down with your gun pointed at the
[43:21] Speaker 1: threat and pick something off the ground? I mean, what
[43:24] Speaker 1: I'm describing sounds stupidly simple, but have you ever done it?
[43:30] Speaker 3: Why wouldn't you be inherently aware of where your muscling
[43:33] Speaker 3: your trigger finger are at all times when handling a gun. Well,
[43:37] Speaker 3: because someone always told me what to do. Yeah, they
[43:40] Speaker 3: always told me to take the gun out, to point
[43:42] Speaker 3: it in this direction, to keep my finger off the trigger,
[43:44] Speaker 3: not to bend over. They tell me what not to do.
[43:48] Speaker 3: But now you're saying I can do this. I always
[43:51] Speaker 3: thought that was a good idea, but I never had permission.
[43:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we do kind of run a big boy
[43:57] Speaker 1: range here. As far as like we do, we expect
[44:01] Speaker 1: you to be able to handle the gun and be
[44:02] Speaker 1: safe with it. It's not a we are not defaulting
[44:06] Speaker 1: to distrust, right, which is sometimes people would hide behind Well,
[44:12] Speaker 1: you know, it's safer this way, but it's just a
[44:15] Speaker 1: different way of doing it.
[44:16] Speaker 3: If it's not safe enough to do on the range,
[44:18] Speaker 3: it's not safe enough to do in the real world.
[44:22] Speaker 2: How about that. People say, oh, you can't do that.
[44:26] Speaker 3: You can't walk from this shooting line with a loaded
[44:29] Speaker 3: gun back there to prep the rest of your bags.
[44:31] Speaker 3: You can't pop your partial mag out of your gun
[44:34] Speaker 3: that's in your holster and refill it and then come
[44:37] Speaker 3: back down to the line and do something. I mean,
[44:41] Speaker 3: I understand. Oh, we don't do administrative stuff with the gun.
[44:44] Speaker 3: We don't want them to refill their partial mag and
[44:47] Speaker 3: then stick it in the back. Oh well, there's time
[44:50] Speaker 3: and place for everything. Because if you do stick that
[44:52] Speaker 3: magazine back in the gun and it's still in your holster,
[44:55] Speaker 3: do you have the presence of mind? Have you been
[44:57] Speaker 3: taught to seat, sweep, and tug because we seat the magazine.
[45:03] Speaker 3: We sweep to make sure our shirt because I've worked
[45:06] Speaker 3: in undercover positions to make sure our shirt isn't caught
[45:09] Speaker 3: or something's caught in between the magwell and the gun,
[45:11] Speaker 3: and then give it a little tug to make sure
[45:13] Speaker 3: it is seated.
[45:15] Speaker 2: I mean, there's time and a place for everything.
[45:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's you know, And I think you think competition
[45:21] Speaker 1: is good, but the way competitions typically run things is
[45:26] Speaker 1: a very very very controlled environment. And I understand why
[45:30] Speaker 1: they have to do that. But a competition is a game.
[45:36] Speaker 1: Uh oh, Ryan just said that USPSA is a game.
[45:41] Speaker 1: It's a shooting game, which is fine.
[45:44] Speaker 2: It's great and walk through and it's.
[45:46] Speaker 1: Skill building and this is wonderful, but like you could,
[45:52] Speaker 1: people carry guns, you know, like every day that are
[45:54] Speaker 1: loaded from their person.
[45:56] Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly could be done.
[45:58] Speaker 3: So when you leave here and you load up your
[46:01] Speaker 3: gun and then the people. We had one guy come
[46:04] Speaker 3: in last week and said.
[46:05] Speaker 2: Hey, I don't know where to unload my gun. My
[46:07] Speaker 2: gun's loaded. What do I do?
[46:09] Speaker 3: I'm like, there's like two hundred and seventy degrees of
[46:11] Speaker 3: burm out there, and not to mention your trunk and
[46:14] Speaker 3: all kinds of ground that you can point your gun
[46:17] Speaker 3: at and unload it if you think. Do you think
[46:19] Speaker 3: you can unload it on your own safely? And he said, well, yeah,
[46:22] Speaker 3: I just didn't know. And I'm like, I get it.
[46:24] Speaker 3: I'm just screwing with you. I'm screwing with you, you know,
[46:27] Speaker 3: because it's like, I mean, I don't know. I load
[46:32] Speaker 3: and unload my gun in my bedroom sometimes. Is there
[46:34] Speaker 3: a safe direction in there? I don't know, as long
[46:36] Speaker 3: as there's no people on the other side. But I
[46:38] Speaker 3: really don't even want to hole in the wall in
[46:39] Speaker 3: my house.
[46:40] Speaker 1: But Chris, you know, you can't point your gun to
[46:42] Speaker 1: anything you're not willing to destroy, which would be all
[46:45] Speaker 1: of the walls in my.
[46:46] Speaker 2: House, including the floor, including the floor.
[46:48] Speaker 1: I don't want holes on the floor.
[46:50] Speaker 3: I sure as hell don't want to hold in my ceiling. Yeah,
[46:52] Speaker 3: all the way out, like through the shingles and everything.
[46:56] Speaker 3: Always A never, yeah, I always and never are great words.
[47:00] Speaker 3: I love to stay away from him because even though
[47:02] Speaker 3: I've never been on Naked and Afraid, you know, I
[47:06] Speaker 3: would like to think I would never eat dog poop,
[47:09] Speaker 3: but I haven't been on Naked and Afraid, and I've
[47:11] Speaker 3: seen him eat some pretty wild stuff.
[47:14] Speaker 1: That feels like a perfect ending to this episode dog poop.
[47:19] Speaker 2: Naked and Afraid.
[47:23] Speaker 3: I mean, I'm quite often afraid sometimes I am naked,
[47:26] Speaker 3: but I mean it happens. I mean, you know, I
[47:29] Speaker 3: live in the country. I can be naked anywhere I want.
[47:31] Speaker 3: You can do what you want, and it's scary, especially
[47:36] Speaker 3: at night.
[47:38] Speaker 1: All right, guys, Well, hopefully this has been fun entertaining.
[47:41] Speaker 1: I know that we had fun with it.
[47:44] Speaker 3: That's it, you know, just stuff to think about, Just
[47:47] Speaker 3: to think about everything we said.
[47:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, not picking on any particular type of gear or.
[47:53] Speaker 2: People or people you don't know until you know.
[47:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, hopefully give you something to think about. We will
[48:00] Speaker 1: see you next time on gun Cognation

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