# Heat and homelessness in Las Vegas with Catrina Grigsby-Thedford

An episode of [Not a Climate Scientist](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1893397479), 16 Jun 2026, 28 min.

Audio: https://api.riverside.com/hosting-analytics/media/29cb139f66ef1e27729816f53b902170b4564ece8eab49375c6d1b9f250c0d19/eyJlcGlzb2RlSWQiOiI1NzZjNmU3OS1mMjk5LTQzMWYtYmIxZC0wMTc3ZTI0YmQxMTciLCJwb2RjYXN0SWQiOiI1MjZkMzc5MS0xYzVmLTQ1ODQtOTFlZi0yZTk0Mzg4ZGZkNTMiLCJhY2NvdW50SWQiOiI2OTE0ZDYxOGQzMTgxZTA5YWMwYjM3NTAiLCJwYXRoIjoibWVkaWEvY2xpcHMvNmEyYzUwODZmN2ZmN2Y2ODQ0YWUwODIxL2hlYXRoZXItZ29sZHN0b25lcy1zdHVkaW8tY29tcG9zZXItMjAyNi02LTEyX18yMC0zMS0zNC5tcDMifQ==.mp3

Nearly 150 people experiencing homelessness died of extreme heat in Las Vegas in 2024. Advocate Catrina Grigsby-Thedford says planning for rising temps could save the lives of residents, visitors, and those experiencing homelessness.

## Transcript

Heather Goldstone: Not a Climate Scientist is a podcast from Woodwell Climate Research Center. Like and follow wherever you're getting this podcast, then head over to our website to sign up for emails so you never miss an episode. join me back here next time for a conversation with retired Navy Vice Admiral Michael Franken. Catrina Grigsby Thedford, welcome to Not a Climate Scientist. Thank you for joining us, especially at a time that I know is getting to be the busiest time of year for you.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: Yes, thank you for having me.
Heather Goldstone: So you are not a climate scientist, right?
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: I am not.
Heather Goldstone: You are executive director of the Nevada Homeless Alliance. Tell me a little bit about the organization you lead and the work that you do.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: Okay, so the Nevada Homeless Alliance has been in our community right here in Las Vegas since nineteen ninety-two. we lead advocacy efforts. ⁓ education and public awareness. So we train homeless service providers on best practices in dealing with vulnerable populations. And we also create public awareness documents, ⁓ letting the public know why people are homeless, what they can do to help, things like that, just to get past some of those bias and ⁓ the attitudes about why people become homeless. collaboration is one of our biggest ⁓ ⁓ Pillars, we work closely with any organization that we can because we know we can't do it alone. May that be Department of Social Services get people linked up to Medicaid or Food Stamps or TANF. ⁓ it be pro bono legal services, substance use providers, mental health providers, street teams here in our community, all the way down to the other nonprofits that are also serving the population. May their target population be youth, senior. Seniors, families, we just know we can't do it alone. ⁓ we also provide direct services through our agency and through partner agencies. So that would look like ⁓ organization is able to assist with IDs, birth certificates, auto repairs, things like that for people experiencing homelessness, as well as some gap funding for people at risk of homelessness. ⁓ then we refer people directly to our partners to on-the-spot services. We have our ⁓ Project Connect event.
Heather Goldstone: Hey everybody, I'm Heather Goldstone, and this is Not a Climate Scientist, the podcast where we talk with everyday Americans about the very real ways climate change is showing up in our lives and livelihoods. It is June, and it is hot in a lot of places across the country. Extreme heat is a hallmark of climate change, and it turns out it's the deadliest form of extreme weather hazard in the United States. But a recent study by Yale researchers.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: four to eight times per month where we may go to an encampment, it could be a library, it could be a parking lot where we partner with we invite all of the agencies, ⁓ one location. that's highly populated with experiencing homelessness. ⁓ a person can in get their ID ⁓ or and sign up for Medicaid. ⁓
Heather Goldstone: Found that most Americans underestimate this risk. That is not the case for my guest today. Dr. Catrina Grigsby Thedford leads the Nevada Homeless Alliance. She, her staff, and her clients are all acutely aware of what extreme heat feels like and what it can do when you don't have a place to go inside, get out of the sun and heat, and cool off.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: and then and talk to the legal aid folks and get a substance use assessment, get some clothes, take a shower, eat, get their wounds ⁓ treated. That's we build rapport with people and we know transportation is a barrier. So we try to do these one-stop on-site shops ⁓ where individuals can multiple needs met at one time.
Heather Goldstone: Her personal story and her passion for ending homelessness and supporting those experiencing it are incredibly inspiring. And she's got a wake-up call for all of us. How did you personally come to do this work?
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: I with Nevada Homeless Alliance in November of two thousand twenty one. ⁓ previously I worked at the Salvation Army. So I started with the Salvation Army in two thousand nine as a client. I experienced homelessness on the streets of Las Vegas and Reno, which is northern Nevada, from two thousand till about two thousand nine when I went to treatment. and then so I went to treatment at the Salvation Army and I ended up working there as a shelter worker and then I ended up being ⁓ a vocational case manager in one of the same adult homelessness programs that I worked at. I went on to become a women's counselor at the same rehab I was at and then I transferred over to the veteran services section where was a case manager, lead case manager, eventually the assistant coordinator of all our veterans programs. And during that time that's when we ended veteran homelessness and reached functional zero. ⁓ So I there for 12 years as a staff member and you know I started in rehab with a GED in 2009 and by the time I left the Salvation Army in 2021 I was ⁓ a and a half away from getting my doctorate degree. So just working in that area ⁓ of expertise and as an agency that helped me to my barriers it just solidified that you know I was saved from homelessness to serve the homeless. ⁓ The opportunity came up to be the executive director of Nevada Alliance I had strong ties to this agency. I did my social work practicum here. I was the volunteer coordinator here, and ⁓ it just aligned with what I want to do ⁓ as my work. And so I accepted this position in ⁓ November of would be five years.
Heather Goldstone: That's a really incredible story. Thank you for sharing that with us. So Las Vegas, ⁓ is a place that's experiencing a lot of change on a lot of different levels ⁓ now. Pretty steady growth in population overall over the past 15, 20 years, probably going back further than that. But
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: DM.
Heather Goldstone: There's been this dramatic spike like since twenty twenty one in the homeless population in Las Vegas. Do do you have an understanding? Is there an understanding of what's been driving that really dramatic increase in homelessness in the area that you're serving?
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: So many would say that we're a transit community and people come here because the weather is nice. right. ⁓
Heather Goldstone: we're gonna talk about the weather and whether or not it's nice in a minute.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: I know, right? If compared to New York, right? ⁓ I guess, you know, in the summertime or in, you know, around Thanksgiving it's very comfortable outside. It's in the sixties and seventies. So people would say that's the reason. however, ⁓ being boots on the ground and and working with individuals on ⁓ face to face level, ⁓ we hire people with lived experience of homelessness. We're always out there doing surveys and getting feedback from people and the number one reason ⁓ that people are becoming homeless that we're seeing is the lack of affordable housing. So after COVID, Everything just skyrocketed, right? ⁓ the housing skyrocketed. We have a lot of developers that are coming in buying up full neighborhoods and renting those out to individuals with a higher income level. And so our people who are thirty ⁓ sixty percent ⁓ fifty percent ⁓ area median income below those are unable to afford rent. also our our wages are stagnant, right? And so I think minimum wage in ⁓ Clark County is about twelve dollars. and you have to work probably 80 hours a week in order to afford rent off that. And so our ⁓ income to rent ratio is not increasing but the rent is increasing. and plus ⁓ we all know that substance use and mental health is increasing not just in our community but all over and substance use and undiagnosed mental health could be a cause or condition of homelessness. it's just this mixture, like this tornado of things just happening that just makes it hard for those vulnerable populations that may or may not have substance use issues, that are low income, and that may not have a lot of social support around them. As a community, we have to be that for them. We have to fight for them and we have to let the decision makers know that hey, these are residents, right? And so how can we focus on them as well as growing our city to be number one in entertainment? Right. And so what does that collaboration look like? not just for the outsiders to come in and have a good time,
Heather Goldstone: You mentioned the weather in Las Vegas and the fact that it's generally seen as a positive about the area. ⁓ but one thing ⁓ that just recently learned, Las Vegas is the second fastest warming city in the United States. ⁓ And of that is, you know, the development that has been happening as the population has grown. You get more dark, hard surfaces that that absorb more heat and you and you get a hotter area. So it's getting a lot. hotter, fast. How does that show up in the work that you do with those who are unhoused?
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: So every summer is scary. ⁓ today our cooling stations open up on the the 5th and 6th because high temperatures, right? And so do, ⁓ community, Clark County Social Services works with a lot of libraries and in different organizations ⁓ open cooling stations. quite a few few cooling stations open today. Only four take pets. Some of them close at three o'clock, some of them close at six o'clock. is ninety degrees at nine in the morning, right? And then at nine o'clock at night it's still hot. And so it's th they're focused on that like hundred and three instead of like at eighty five it's hot, right? And so what we do is that we make sure when we're doing outreach, ⁓ that we are making sure that we are given cooling towels, as well as water. any letrolytes. ⁓ but we're
Heather Goldstone: What are cooling towels? I live in the northeast where our concern, is cold weather and handing out blankets. What are cooling towels?
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: So cooling those it there's like a mesh towel and then there's also another towel that has these little beads in it. You dip it in water and wring it and you can just put it on your neck to keep you cool. Right? so we make sure that we do what we can do to keep people cool. ⁓ we encourage individuals. To go to the cooling station, but some of the hesitancy is there's not one close to me, or I can't take my pet, or who's gonna wash my stuff while I'm gone? I can't take my stuff with me. How am I gonna get back if you transport me to the other side of town and all the people I know is on this side of town at this encampment or in this area, right? So we do what we can do. ⁓ you know, it's like a concrete jungle out here, right? And, you know, some of the bus stops are removed to deter individuals experiencing homelessness hanging out there. ⁓ and you know, some the water is cut off to discourage people homelessness from using the water or from bathing in the water. And I that piece, but at at the same time, you know, let's just ramp up security and and and treat people like humans and and offer them things that they may need to to stay cool And so do we need cooling stations closer to where they are? Yes, ⁓ right? And did anyone ask them what would be great for ⁓ I make it a point that we're talking to the people, them, because we feel like people are closest to the problem are closest to the right? That's what human-centered, that's what client-centered looks like. ⁓ And that's why we also ⁓ hire ⁓ people with lived experience of to be independent contractors with Nevada Homeless Alliance to make sure we're elevating the voices of people who are experiencing homelessness. so we're always highlighting those individuals who pass on the streets, and we're always having a a for action about the heat or about the substances. Because if you're using math, like last year a lot the individuals who died ⁓ It was more meth than open than fentanyl or opioids. So meth is doing
Heather Goldstone: there was a really ⁓ dramatic and and tragic ⁓ of that a couple of years ago, right? Summer twenty twenty four, was it a hundred and forty-seven individuals died? Las Vegas early that summer hit ⁓ just incredible all time heat I think a high temp of a hundred and twenty. And there was one week where the average high temperature was a hundred and seventeen and a half degrees Fahrenheit.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: Yeah.
Heather Goldstone: Which is to me, that that is just an incredible temperature. And I guess I'm curious Was a wake up call for the community?
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: Mm, would like to say yes for some of us. Maybe not for the whole community. because the general community can just get in their car and cut the air on and or go home, right?
Heather Goldstone: Hmm.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: ⁓ for for homeless service providers, like we were out there making sure that people were at least at least hydrated, right, with electrolytes and that we were at least making the attempt to get them to a location where they can cool off. But we understand the barriers. If my pet can't go, I'm not going. I get that, right? a normie may say, Well, if they wanted to survive they would leave the pet. But like if you have pets, that's That's what you do, regardless of if you're house or homeless, right? It's like that's your family. And so
Heather Goldstone: We we see that with natural disasters all the time, that people don't evacuate, don't leave their homes because of their pets.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: Yes. And so we have to make sure we use those same standards for people who are housed, people who are in national disasters, as a valid reason that if your pet can't go, you won't go. Instead of saying you must wanna stay homeless because you didn't leave your pet. So those narratives like that has to stop. but we know that there's people just gonna say no. Maybe because they don't have the ability to say yes to something that's more healthy due to substance use and undiagnosed or untreated mental health, right? But we get to continue building rapport with those individuals outside of summer months. So when they see us coming, they'll trust that if we take them, we'll come back and bring them back when it's night, right?
Heather Goldstone: You've mentioned a couple of times this idea of cooling stations that are open during the heat of the day, which I think is the first thing that comes to mind for most people when we think about extreme heat. But then there's the nighttime. And one of the hallmarks ⁓ of climate change is it cool off at night as much as it would have before. And and that's just an added layer of risk, right? If you don't get that break overnight from the heat. ⁓ it just compounds the effects that much more.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: Exactly. And when I first moved to Vegas in two thousand, it was so funny. Like it would be a hundred and ten during the day and then the news at eleven o'clock say, ⁓ temperatures have cooled down is now a hundred degrees. Like that's at midnight. So it's still hot. And you know, ⁓ so I think we're looking at the sun and extreme heat, but a hundred degrees, ninety eight degrees, ninety five degrees is still hot. And then, you know, some people may not have shoes on and I can't even walk to my mailbox without them.
Heather Goldstone: Whew, yeah.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: imagine what the sores and what it's doing to your body just laying on the concrete for four hours if you go to sleep on the concrete, right? Like people actually get burned. So we give aloe vera gel, we give sunburn ⁓ and like that. But you know, we just know that it's not just the sun.
Heather Goldstone: You've been working ⁓ the past couple of years with some of my colleagues here at Woodwell Climate, looking at how extreme heat risks and also flood risks, and I would love to talk about that in a minute, are evolving. what got that collaboration off the ground?
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: so you know, in community, those things have been a big thing for years. The flooding and the heat. the flooding is always a issue because of how our city is built and people living in the tunnels. and then the heat has always been an issue ⁓ because, know, people are dying and it's just extremely hot.
Heather Goldstone: so in this collaboration between Nevada Homeless Alliance and Woodwell, there's also a third partner, the Lived X team. And the depth, I think, that that brings to the final report. And actually, you know, got a the copy of the ⁓ report here, was reading through that earlier today. the quotes.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: Okay. Mm-hmm.
Heather Goldstone: one of them that really stuck with me describing the sun as a predator, right? To your point, the and this the mental image that that conjured for me of really being chased by the sun, of of the effort that you might have to go to to try to find shade, to find relief And then to your point, really understanding.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: Mm.
Heather Goldstone: How people are living, where they're living, and the the challenges that they might be experiencing on a daily basis was just really, really powerful. And and maybe we can talk now a little bit about the flood risk, because Las Vegas has is a dry climate. I don't think most people think about flood risk in Las Vegas, but you also have a monsoon season.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: Yes.
Heather Goldstone: overlaps with the hottest part of the year, right? And and then as you said, people are sometimes living in tunnels, especially if they're trying to find shade, which just makes them that much more vulnerable to the flooding. And if you didn't have that lived experience part piece in it, you might not make that that connection between those two risks.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: Yes. You know, we've had what they call ⁓ the underground people in Vegas for years. People have been living in tunnels for years. and so I don't know a lot about construction and how Vegas was originally built, but I do know this, that it wasn't built for rain. you know, like we don't have drains on our a lot of our streets ⁓ and we do have those tunnels. Tunnels were not built for people to live in either. and so, you know, I don't know what happened early thirty or forty years ago before we started getting these big rainstorms 'cause I hear stories of people saying we would have fun outside when it rained, And maybe our homeless population wasn't as big then, right? So people go in the tunnels because it's cooler for one. They're out of sight. there are outreach teams going down there. But it sounds like, ⁓ just from me being here for twenty six years and hearing about and and being in the tunnels and and and meeting people who do work down there. that individuals kinda that's been there forever, they know what it feels like. ⁓ They the different sounds that happen when water's coming, right? It to help people get out so they know. ⁓ But the same time, if a person is intoxicated they haven't slept for days and they're down there asleep, right, they could get washed out. So our outreach teams are really keen about working with our weather folks ⁓ when there's rain in forecast. going out there letting people know it's gonna be raining. Like we can help you guys get out or you at least get your important documents and things like that to try to help mitigate that. and then we don't see a lot of the stats about how many people actually died in the tunnel. I think that's something we need to started advocating for when the rain comes. ⁓
Heather Goldstone: You've mentioned a few times teams ⁓ ⁓ attuned to the weather, right? Constantly watching the weather for forecasts of potentially dangerous weather, whether that's ⁓ or or heat. I wonder if you feel like you and others ⁓ this work, and for that matter, the unhoused individuals that you're working with.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: Mm-hmm.
Heather Goldstone: are maybe more attuned to the way that the weather is changing to the phenomenon of climate change than others in your community who aren't they're they're watching the weather for perhaps life or death reasons.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: Yes, exactly. So ⁓ I think that's just one hundred percent true. So if I was not working in this field ⁓ I'm just watching the news, ⁓ that helps me to determine what I should wear tomorrow. Should I put my little shade thing up in my car? So my the wheel won't feel like I need mitts, ⁓ It feels like that. you know, and you know, should I, you know, have me some iced tea instead of coffee? Like what should that look like, right?
Heather Goldstone: Yeah.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: ⁓ And so, yeah, so the the short answer to your question is yes. I think that we and the people who are experiencing homelessness look at the weather totally different than just person who's just watching the news and like looking at the seven day forecast.
Heather Goldstone: So when it comes to the with Woodwell and actually looking at ⁓ projections heat and flood risk over the coming ten, twenty, fifty years. ⁓ How you bring that into your work, right? That's not the the forecast for Tuesday and who needs to go out and what they need to have with them. That's that's looking really long range. So What does that much longer term understanding of how things are likely to change influence the work that that you're doing?
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: think that it's great to have that projection into the future. I wish we would have had that projection into the future fifty years ago or thirty years ago. Right? And then ⁓ if people if people were passionate about helping people experiencing experiencing homelessness, there would be things in place.
Heather Goldstone: Hm. Why? What what would what do you think would have been different? Mm.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: make sure that we're not so reactive every time it gets hot or every time a flood is coming. But if we know that these things are if the heat is gonna continue to rise over the next however many years to twenty fifty, what that looks like, right? We get to choose to be proactive. my hope is that homelessness decreases, affordable housing increases, access to livable wages increases, so we can have less people, but in the interim, we have to Look at reports such as that as a warning. Let's not wait and be like, ⁓ they told us I told you so. Let's look at it as a warning and the opportunity to be proactive to set systems in place and structures in place or action plans in place So, ⁓ back to the report, like I said, like this could be a tool. Right, ⁓ to see into the future in essence and see what do we need to do. And we have to balance so many things. We just can't say we gotta end homelessness so they won't die. We gotta say we gotta look at wages, we gotta look at housing costs, we gotta look at being number fifty one in mental health services, we gotta look at the youth situation, we have to look at all this as a community, ⁓ And you know, I would hope that extreme weather and people dying would make people open their eyes more and say, we gotta help people but sometimes you just have to ⁓ approach it from different angles and say, This needs to happen because this is gonna happen and this is these are like all the ripple effects. But if we work on this and fix this and fix this, right? It's still gonna get hot, but we can possibly have less people out there dying of heat, you know? So
Heather Goldstone: Yeah. as you were talking about that, it occurred to me that you were essentially ⁓ that one ⁓ of climate adaptation, is ending homelessness, making that we don't have people our communities that are that vulnerable. to climate change and that by doing that it'll end up also helping others in the community, If anything, I was expecting you to say something like, Well, we need 24 hour cooling stations instead of only during the the the hot part of the day. We
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: could be one of the things that's in the action plan, right?
Heather Goldstone: Right.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: twenty four hour cooling stations. but then ⁓ a 24-hour cooling station means teams with vehicles to transport people to. And if they want to leave from, instead of saying, Hey, now walk 10 miles back to where you're normally staying and see you later. Good luck, right? cooling stations. Often have rules. You can bring two bags in. But what if a person has four bags, right? Some people have clothes and their kids' pictures and stuff still. ⁓ may have that little piece of paper when they were playing Scrabble with their grandma that looks like trash to me because on the floor, but for them it means something, right? And a lot of people can put their ID and birth certificate and medications and things like that in one backpack. But often, like I got a three-bedroom house and it's just myself and my husband. Each closet, the garage, other bedrooms have stuff I need. So, you know, like put your stuff in a backpack. Like that's not a reality for a regular human. and with our homeless population, we can't expect that to be a reality either, right?
Heather Goldstone: Yeah. sure you're in touch with colleagues doing this work in different communities across the country. And I'm curious whether climate change and increasingly dangerous weather is something that comes up in conversations with those colleagues.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: Not as much as like just in general, ⁓ homeless deaths. We ⁓ attend a lot of mortality ⁓ groups with other individuals that are tracking people experiencing homelessness. you know, w we do talk to some individuals who in colder climates that are talking about what they're doing, which is like it's still climate, but it's like different from us here, you know? And not saying like we're that anomaly, but like Vegas, like a little bit different, ⁓ than other
Heather Goldstone: Canary in the coal mine.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: Exactly. So this weather thing is one extra thing that we have in our community. that we have to make sure that we're putting high on the pedestal,
Heather Goldstone: As you're putting this climate and weather issue up on the pedestal, as you said, and educating those who are not experiencing homelessness or working with those individuals, would hope that they would take from this? What would you want the rest of us to be doing with that new awareness
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: The data is there. Take it as the truth. Don't wait for to happen. And just be proactive. What does being proactive look like? Is this a three year plan or a five year plan to work towards a goal? Right? And so we have a statewide plan to end homelessness. Where is our statewide plan to address homelessness and the heat and so let's not leave out the people who are coming to ⁓ visit, right? when they check into the hotel is there something on there that says, hey, if you're from a community where the temperatures blah blah blah, we should be careful. We have free cooling towels and we sell electrolytes and get in and cool off. Like if they don't want to make it only about the people experiencing homelessness, let's make it about everybody and include people experiencing homelessness because the heat is not only gonna impact people experiencing homelessness, it's gonna impact everybody, right? ⁓ And so I would hope that many individuals have seen the report, we've shared it. and they're taking this seriously and we just gotta keep pushing that narrative that like we have to do something in general because residents, tourists and people experiencing homelessness who are residents are dying in the heat in Las Vegas.
Heather Goldstone: Doctor Catrina Grigsby Thedford, I wanna thank you so much for a really thoughtful and eye opening conversation.
Dr. Catrina Grigsby-Thedford: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

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