# Understanding Relatability in Leadership

An episode of [Amplify Speakers Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1874167939), 28 Feb 2026, 39 min.

Audio: https://api.riverside.com/hosting-analytics/media/2222bf86f2e28923926d7d8fba526feb87e58b9fe2e8b9e7154fc4f70d846501/eyJlcGlzb2RlSWQiOiIzMjQ5MDUwMi1iYmQyLTQ5Y2QtODdlNS0wZGNlMzI4MTI5OTMiLCJwb2RjYXN0SWQiOiJkNDdhNjkwNS1lNzY5LTQ2MDgtYjM4ZS1kY2Y4M2E0M2ViOTEiLCJhY2NvdW50SWQiOiI2OTUyMTkxOWFmYjZiNjY4ZTA0NGE2ZGUiLCJwYXRoIjoibWVkaWEvY2xpcHMvNjlhMjJiNDlhODgxYjMwOGViZjFkNDk2L2NocmlzLXN1bmRzLXN0dWRpby1jb21wb3Nlci0yMDI2LTItMjhfXzAtMzktNTMubXAzIn0=.mp3

Understanding Relatability in Leadership Summary In this episode of the Amplify Speakers podcast, host Chris Sund interviews Rachel DiAlto, a bestselling author and expert on connection, leadership, and influence. Rachel shares her unique journey from being a lawyer to a startup CEO, and eventually transitioning into television and public speaking. The conversation delves into the importance of relatability in leadership, the impact of social media on human connection, and the necessity of intentional respect in workplace relationships. Rachel emphasizes the need for leaders to foster genuine connections with their teams and offers practical advice for building relationships in a disconnected world. Takeaways • Rachel's journey includes being a lawyer, CEO, and speaker. • Startup failure can lead to unexpected opportunities. • Relatability is crucial in leadership and human connection. • Social media provides a performative connection, not a real one. • Intentional actions are necessary for building respect. • Survivor's guilt can affect one's career trajectory. • Casual relationships can significantly impact loneliness. • Leaders must create space for honest conversations. • Respect is the top trait people seek in leaders. • Understanding bias can improve workplace relationships. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Rachel DiAlto 01:00 Rachel's Journey: From Lawyer to CEO to Speaker 03:01 The Heartbreak of Startup Failure 06:08 The Role of Media and TV in Rachel's Career 09:03 Understanding Relatability: The Inspiration Behind Rachel's Books 12:09 The Impact of Social Media on Connection 14:57 Building Connections: Advice for the Lonely 18:00 Leadership and Relationship Building 20:53 Creating a Culture of Respect in Leadership 23:57 The Importance of Intentional Respect 26:47 Overcoming Bias in Relationships 30:02 The Power of Human Connection 32:47 Final Thoughts and Advice for the Future Links Rachel DeAlto’s Profile: https://amplifyspeakers.com/rachel-dealto/ Rachel DeAlto’s Website: http://www.racheldealto.com/ Rachel DeAlto’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/racheldealto Rachel DeAlto’s Books: https://www.racheldealto.com/book

## Transcript

Chris Sund: Hi everyone, welcome to the Amplify Speakers podcast where we share the stories of some of the most inspiring people in the world and break down what it really takes to lead, communicate, and perform at your best. I'm your host Chris Sund and each week we sit down with some of the top speakers, leaders, and performers to share their stories and insights. Today's guest is Rachel DiAlto. She is the bestselling author of Relatable and the relatable leader and one of the leading voices on connection, leadership and influence. Rachel helps leaders and teams turn everyday conversations into real trust, real impact and real results. Rachel, welcome to the show.
Rachel DeAlto: Great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Chris Sund: Absolutely. Well, I think where I'd like to start off is before the books and the sage and everything else, what was, what's your journey? What did it look like getting here today?
Rachel DeAlto: ⁓ How long do we have? feel like, I feel like everybody and especially speakers, there's always this weird roller coaster of like, how did you get here? ⁓ But I, so I was a lawyer.
Chris Sund: Hahaha
Rachel DeAlto: I came up with an idea for a startup company, launched the startup company, raised $2 million, became a CEO. And then all of a sudden that rub was pulled out from under me because it was completely taken over by technology. We had created this idea that combined online and offline dating before apps even existed. was, know, obviously according to the apps, it was a really big market. ⁓ And then they made us obsolete. And all of a sudden I pivoted into television. end up doing TV because I was doing a lot of TV around the launch of the our product as the startup founder. And then they were like, wait, you can talk on camera, come back. And I was like, you're going to do my hair and makeup. I'd love to. And so I ended up doing TV for about 10 years. And then that really led me into what I do now, which is as a keynoter and speaking and studying just human psychology. went back on a master's in psychology because I really liked to, to get some student loans under me. And. ⁓ That's kind of how I got here in a very short version of things, but yeah, it's been winding.
Chris Sund: That's incredible. Yeah, you've done quite a bit of school between law school and the NBA. More than most, even most doctors can probably say.
Rachel DeAlto: You you I would go, you know, it's funny. I always say if I won the lottery, I would go back to school again. I love school. I mean, I think eventually I was like, I should probably stop pursuing degrees and just work a little bit more. ⁓ if I did, if I was, ⁓ if I was, you know, independently wealthy and no responsibilities, I'd be like, let's get the MBA. Let's become a medical doctor. I don't know. It's kind of fun.
Chris Sund: I love that. So I have definitely a little bit of a question if don't mind. I want to dig back into the dating and the CEO side. How big, you know, how many years did that, how big did the team get? And then I have a little bit more, but I'm going to hear that first.
Rachel DeAlto: Sure. Yeah. Yes. It was, ⁓ gosh, was interesting. the intention really was to run it super lean when we launched it. Like I said, it was in 2010, so it was right before all the apps came out. I think it was about four months we existed before it died. And it was this idea that combined online and offline dating together. It was unique and we had a ton of media, but we kept our team pretty small. I had probably a team of five or six that was within the organization. And then we ran a ton of different independent contractor teams for marketing and public relations and things like that. So it was kind of spaced out. But yeah, we had about two or three full-time employees and then a couple part-time employees.
Chris Sund: Okay, so I'm gonna, I guess, lean into the hard side. What did that look like when it came down to make the decision to wind down? Or, you know, was it quick or did it slowly happen?
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah. It was heartbreaking. It was one of those things, especially, you know, when, when you really put everything into a, you know, an idea and you had so many people that believed in the idea. Like it was so hard. I didn't take a salary. Like we didn't take any money, you know, from the company itself. So everything was this almost like a volunteer position. And I didn't go back to law, you know, because I wanted to really spend the time on the organization. And then when we realized that this is beyond. repair because it was it was one of those things where we could have pivoted a bit towards more a tech focused but there was so much technology that had just come out that we would have been behind the eight ball and and obviously all of those companies that launched you know tinder was one of them it's you know it was supported by a billion dollar organization who then I ended up working for them I was one of their spokespeople for match the match group for quite some time about five years and so that was a weird full circle moment Whereas their chief connection officer, but... Yeah, was definitely, it was heartbreaking. It was one of those things too, where I realized I had survivor's guilt because what had happened was when I did the startup, I, you know, we, we had done a lot of PR and so that's how the entire TV opportunities came because people were booking me to talk about the, company. And so I'd go on and talk about the company, promote the company. You know, had a lot of people wanting to do that for the first year and then had more opportunities to come back on and pursue that part of, of my life as a, career and I felt so guilty that the company had failed that I actually said no to so many opportunities in the beginning because I had to come to terms of you know this is a this is a next path and I wasn't ready to open that path ⁓ because I felt so much responsibility for the organization the employees the investors.
Chris Sund: Yeah, that's unwinding, closing, anything that you're passionate about. You put your whole heart into it. It's really hard, especially when it, it does involve people's livelihoods as well. Where's your responsibility? With that said though, it did venture, people saw something in you and opened up some new doors. How long were you doing the TV? before the idea and maybe it has nothing to even do with it, but when at one point you go, I'm gonna sit down and write a book.
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah. ⁓ so full disclosure, I did when we were marketing the company, they're like, you need to write a book on flirting and dating. And so I wrote this book in 10 days just for them to use that as, some way to push media. And I was like, ⁓ my gosh, I'm going to write a book on flirting and dating. I'm a lawyer running a company. Like this is the end of my existence. And it really was, it was kind of like this moment where I realized, okay, if I'm to try to make this organization work, if I'm going to try to make this company stable or, viable in any way, I have to close the door completely because, you know, I need to do this from a media marketing perspective. And so I did that. I don't even consider that it's not a real book. I can't get rid of it. It's out there in the ethers, but that one's not real. And then I didn't write it relatable until 2019. I started really coming up with the idea of what I wanted my work to look like. And so that was from, you know, 2010 to 2019. It was nine years. Like I said, I had so much survivor guilt that it took me a while to really pivot out and figure out what my next steps were gonna be.
Chris Sund: Yeah. How, you know, I guess of all the choices you could have wrote on in the area that you're passionate about, why relatable? How did you land on that?
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah, that actually came. in those years in between, I started doing some speaking and I started doing more TV and I ended up being one of the experts on Married at First Sight. So it's still on the air. I think they just switched over to Peacock, but it was on Lifetime for a while. I started when it was on A &E. So it was a very, very different program when I started. And I was one of the experts for seasons four and five. And then I left the show and the show is still insanely popular. And I kept receiving this is back in 2017, I want to I've received thousands of messages from fans saying, know, why did you leave? You were such a relatable expert. And it was the same word. It was so strange. It was the same word, whether it was in a social media message or an email. And so I was like, well, that's interesting. Why did they feel that? And so I, you know, obviously I was in the relationship space and in the human connection space, but I wanted to see what exactly is relatability because I don't, didn't see anybody talking about it. You know, we hear the word a lot and be like, ⁓ they're so relatable or you know, you want to be a more relatable leader or a relatable human being, but I didn't understand what that meant. And so that's really what was the inspiration for that. And I thought, okay, well, you know, I don't believe in sample sizes of one, so we got to take a step back. And I really started researching relatability.
Chris Sund: That's amazing. I love just kind of hearing how it came out. There is a good purpose behind it. ⁓ With that.
Rachel DeAlto: down.
Chris Sund: get too much into this, like what if you looked at just relatable because like you said there's different versions of it and it means so much to different people, but if there is one area that you're gonna be like this is why it's really important to read to know this to study what would that be?
Rachel DeAlto: You know, and this is something people talk about a lot and I think it's almost become just rhetoric or, you know, just out there in the ethers about how disconnected we are. But we truly are. And that's really where my purpose has come into play of, you know, I really think I'm here to bring people back to one another. And that's the purpose of Relatable. It's the purpose of Relatable Leader as well. think, you know, if we're looking at the umbrella above all of it, it's, you know, we are so separated and we're so disconnected. But what if, you know, we really worked on that? And what if we thought about the way that we showed up or changed our approach or really connected with people more intentionally? kind of brings us all back together.
Chris Sund: Hmm. That is pretty timely. What's your views on, you know, the impact that the phones that are sitting right next to us at all times, social media, what's your thoughts around how this has shifted over the last decade or two?
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah. And you know social media, hate when I don't want to demonize it because it does provide it's a it's a resource I think it's part of the tools that we should use to stay connected to people, but it's almost it's performative connection So when we're on social media, this is, you know, and I'm telling you about myself or my life, it's, it's very performative and it's not actually really connecting with someone. And we all know this because we all have very, very different experiences when you have a one-on-one conversation, preferably in person. And that's the time when you really realize that, ⁓ my gosh, this feels different, this works differently. And so, you know, that's really where I think of social media is like, that's kind of the breadcrumb that gets us down. the trail to eventually connect with someone. I appreciate social media because I couldn't stay in touch with as many people as I could without it. You know, it's really hard to say, hey, you know, hey Chris, like, let's get together, or like, let's get on a call. Like, you can't do that with hundreds of people. And so it does expand your reach, but at the same time you have to be even more intentional of the relationships that you want to deepen.
Chris Sund: Yeah, great points. I completely agree. ⁓ It gets plenty of bad rap, but at the same time, it's not just friends or colleagues that like, hey, maybe I used to spend thousands of hours a year working with these people. And we were pretty close. Now we don't, but I still like to know what's going on with them. But even family that lives far away, you're really right. I mean, it's just surface level. It's like getting the holiday card. a letter and update on like this what happened this year, but it doesn't really tell you anything else. Not what would happen if you just got to sit down with them for 30 minutes.
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah, it's a great touch point, like you said, and I think of it in terms of family too. I keep my husband informed of his family because he's not on social media. And so I was like, you know, this baby's born or, you know, this is happening. And so it's nice for those elements, but we also have to recognize that that's not enough. know, it's, and especially even with this loneliness epidemic that we have, you know, which has become a bigger and bigger problem and is such a... a huge impact in terms of the way that our health is declining, the way that our mental health is declining. so we have to look at that. there is kind of, they find that in research, social media can create a little bit of like... life support right so you know social media is going to allow people to feel some level of social connection so that it doesn't feel like despair but it's not enough you know it's it's not enough and that's where i don't want people to feel reliant on it and i want them to consistently look at their network and figure out who do i want to actually build a real relationship with
Chris Sund: Well, I want to expand on that. let's say we have somebody, I think with families, people that have families or maybe someone they're living with, it's probably a little bit easier to have, you're getting some type of connection. But let's say somebody isn't in a relationship and they're living by themselves and they're starting to feel that. What advice would you give for them?
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah, it has to be a very intentional effort to reach out. and to reach out to a friend, to make plans with someone. And I've talked to people who have said, don't really have someone to reach out to. Or I've tried that and it doesn't work. Well then, try to engage in an organization. Find something to volunteer your time. A lot of times I'll tell people to find something that you're passionate about, something that you're interested in. I had a friend recently, she started working at a soup kitchen because she had extra time. her kids are out of the house, she felt a little lonely at times. And so I said, you know, really find something that you enjoy doing that takes your mind away from the fact that maybe you feel disconnected and then think about all the people that are there that you can then potentially build relationships with because it's not necessarily, it doesn't have to be a best friend or a romantic partner. could be, you know, those, even those casual, there was a study that came out in the last, I think it was in the last year, I was talking about the power of the, casual touches, those casual relationships, you know, the Starbucks barista that knows your name and you have those small conversations with, that can have a significant impact on your loneliness scale.
Chris Sund: Wow. Yeah, I think it's some that we don't need to think about. The different things that can. impact both you emotionally and from a loneliness perspective that you could go throughout the day. But for some people it would be, and anyone, it could be really easy to go throughout the day, run through the motions and do the same thing and just kind of feel like there's no one there. So I love that advice of finding something they love to do or that they're passionate about. then hopefully most times I'm guessing there's human interaction that'll come from there.
Rachel DeAlto: even work. I mean, and that's the biggest challenge too, is, you know, there's so much hybrid work, there's remote work, but, you know, I think back to, you know, I came up, I'm 46 years old, so I was in the weird Gen X millennial, like, I feel like there's this strange line that I don't know which way I'm going, but, you know, we had to go into the office, but there was a beauty to that. You made friends in the office, you had connections in the office, you had conversations, even if they weren't your close buddies, you know, you're still having those connections. And so sometimes I suggest if you are in a situation where you don't have that social network, maybe you don't have that family network, what are you doing for work? And is there somewhere that you can go be amongst people versus being at home?
Chris Sund: Absolutely. And it's easier now than ever to find that work. You know, a lot of times if I'm traveling, grab an Uber and I most times, unless I have a lot of work to do, I love talking to the driver if they're in mood to talk. And it's really interesting to hear how many different stories I hear. But, you know, one of the more recent ones was a dad whose kids were in college or moved out of the house. And he's like,
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah.
Chris Sund: Didn't have a lot of do at night. I figured I might as well make some money. And then I get to meet a lot of people like yourself. I meet so many people. I have a good time with the ones that want to talk. And it gets me something to do. And it's great to hear there's what you go do with that time to fulfill that bucket and find that interaction. You never know who you might meet and what you're going to learn along the way.
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah. Yeah, no, those are some of my favorite conversations too, depending on, I mean, sometimes I'm tired when you're up for it. And you know, that is, I know so many people that have gotten a job after they've retired because they're just thinking, you know, I need to do something. I have to be amongst people. And so listen to that call. If that is something that you are feeling, you know, and that's a call within, pay attention to that and take that opportunity.
Chris Sund: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, completely. So shifting a little bit into the leadership side. And so if I'm looking at myself and I'm looking at the team I work with and I'm evaluating my relationship with each one and I identify or I'm like, you know, I really don't feel like I have a great relationship with this employee. What advice would you give me?
Rachel DeAlto: I would try to figure out why. think the starting line for any of those situations is taking that moment to be open to being a little bit more self-aware of how am I showing up with this person, but also being willing to figure out, what does that relationship look like and what could I be doing that could be causing that disconnect with that team member? think what I have realized in my career is that lot of leaders don't want to ask the hard questions because they don't want to hear the answers. We always say there's that saying, it's like never ask a question that you don't want to hear the answer to. Well, we do that a lot where people don't want, I had one organization there I love, before I go into an organization, I'm like, me all your data and. This one was like, well, we don't really have any data. We don't do employee engagement surveys. We don't do this. And I was like, well, can I do one? It's six questions. I'll tailor it to what we want to talk about. And can we get some data on your team so I have an idea of where people are at? And they're like, no.
Chris Sund: You ⁓
Rachel DeAlto: I was like, I'm literally offering you like $50,000 worth of consulting at this point for free. And they said, we don't, we don't want to know because we're afraid then we're going to have to do. Cause if you ask the question, you don't do anything with it. Then obviously your team's going to be a little bit irritated, but ⁓ what are we doing here? So I'm always down, you know, ask the questions, you know, have a one-on-one, if it's one person, you know, have that one-on-one team meeting with them to say, it doesn't feel like, you know,
Chris Sund: Thank
Rachel DeAlto: we're optimized in terms of our relationship. It doesn't feel like we're working in the best way that we could together. Tell me what's going on. Create that space for someone to say, well, Chris, I didn't like the way that this project went down or whatever it is. But it's up to the leader to create that opportunity. And that's the other thing that's, you I think about there was a study or not a study, it was a story about Ford where when the new leader came in and they were talking about, know, we were reading the projects. was red and yellow and green and everybody came in with greens, but they were losing money. And so eventually it was like, you have to rate these accurately. And eventually people did. And it created this opportunity to say, no, we're, messing up. Like, this is a bad project. This is, this needs to go. But if you're not from a leadership perspective, creating the space for people could be honest, then you're never going to have that honest conversation. And that team member is probably going to never have a different opinion of you as a leader. I was a soapbox. I'm going to get off of it now.
Chris Sund: Yeah. No, but you're completely right. And it happens a lot, I think, where, you know, I call it reciprocal leadership. You get out what you're willing to put into the person. And sometimes it gets looked at, well, they work for me. Here's what I expect. Here's my KPIs. And all of that matters. The performance matters. They want to mean we're making money, we're winning. That's there, but what's making it for them? Do they understand their purpose and why they're important? Do they actually think you think they're important and that you feel they're a valuable part of the team? And if they don't feel they're valuable part of the team, then how are we gonna turn around and say, we want you to be elite. We want you to be here. We gotta get it. Yeah.
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah, they're like, I'm barely here.
Chris Sund: And ⁓ it's really wonderful advice. I see a lot where, you know, somebody will say, you know, I don't really get along as well or here. And unfortunately, usually if that friction is there, the natural tendency is to want to not go around them, which makes it even worse or try to avoid it. Like you say, avoid the confrontation or just the honesty in the mirror to go. Maybe I never really took time to just get to know them and what matters to them and make them feel like I care. Do you see that a lot with your coaching when you go in?
Rachel DeAlto: I see a lot of people that are missing the basics and that's really, that's something I find really interesting is, you just said it, know, people are looking to feel like their leader cares about them. You know, and, and I, I get it too. And there's so many leaders that are doing so much and they have so many things on their plates and the to-do list is a mile long. they're like, now I have to sit down and like hold someone's hand and tell them that I care about them as a human being. I'm like, eh, yeah, minus the hand holding. Yeah. Yeah. We have to do that. Um, and that's really, I did before I wrote relatable leader, I did a proprietary study just because I wanted to understand what teams are looking for. Cause I had this idea. I had this idea that we were missing the mark. think there's so much thought leadership around leadership and there's so many ideas of how we need to show up and, you know, authentic and vulnerable and all of these things, which, yes. And, you know, what the research showed, the top trait that people were looking for was respect. And I found that to be so interesting because from, you know, in psychology, they call it a negativity bias. When you are asked a question, if I ask you, Chris, you know, what are you looking for in a leader? We tend to immediately go to the negative of like what you didn't have or what was the worst case scenario or like the worst leader that you've had. And so if respects at the top of the list, means that that means that most people don't feel respected by their leadership. And so to me, what I see with my coaching clients, it's not that they don't even, They don't respect their team. It's that they're not thinking about how important that is for them.
Chris Sund: well said. And I would love to see that study. ⁓ That's not surprising, unfortunately, I think. ⁓ But having people be conscious of it when people do you get caught up on projects or I hate the term, but managing processes and managing versus taking the time to lead. and understanding that's part of leading is taking time to make people feel respected. ⁓
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah. And like you said, it's It is that moment. It's that moment of time where you actually think, okay, I have to be intentional about my actions. And that's the biggest shift is, you know, maybe you're not being disrespectful, but maybe you're not showing respect. And so that's a different, you know, that there's two different ways of approaching a situation, know, active disrespect. You got a bigger problem here. We probably need to talk about that. But if you're just not ⁓ intentional about showing that you respect someone, you know, they can feel like that doesn't exist. And so that makes a huge impact is just taking that beat before you have a conversation, having that moment before you say something or before you give feedback or, you know, share some sort of, you know, next project or goals or, you know, their to-do list.
Chris Sund: It's great advice. I want to lean into a little bit more on the intentional respect. because it is something, like you said, it's very common. There's a reason it rated there. For somebody that knows that I need to lean in, or listen, like I probably should lean into this, what would you tell them? Like, where should we start?
Rachel DeAlto: Hmm. well, you know, it- you actually just said, like, listen to this, like even just paying attention to the people in front of you is an act of respect. And then letting them know that they're valuable, that expression. you know, it's not, it's not an everybody gets a trophy kind of situation. I think that's where some leaders like, I don't have to say this every time. Like, of course they know it. Well, no, they don't, you know, and, and people want to hear it. They want to be recognized. They want to be appreciated. They want to have that acknowledgement. That's a huge start of this. When a, one of the studies that I found when I started researching respect and in leadership they use this quote that says respect is the manifestation of believing another person has value and it gives me goosebumps and I think it's probably one of the most profound things if you think about it you know respect is the manifestation of believing another person has value so if you believe that this team member in front of you has value how does that manifest how how do you allow that to show up you know, what are the words that you say? What are the actions that you take? What is that recognition? And so I would think about it through that lens of, you know, what does that, how does that manifest for whatever that team member that you're thinking of?
Chris Sund: What a great line. I am feeling that line. I like that a lot. I, you know, I, I could say I've seen it and I'm sure I'm guilty of it as well of when you see somebody go, you know, I think we need to cut ties with this person or this person isn't, and you go back and go, okay, let's rewind back a year or two. Remember when you asked to hire them.
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah.
Chris Sund: Why did you want to hire them so badly back then? And what's that, basically getting to what is that value that you saw in them then that they had? I don't believe anyone intentionally doesn't want to go out and do great things with their life. People, everyone is capable, probably much more than they realize they're capable of. So what's happened over the last year or two, the change, the value you saw in them now, and after working with them for a year or two, what happened?
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah. And be willing to see how am I showing up? You know, did I create this? Are my actions related to having them adjust their reactions?
Chris Sund: Yes, it's, I think it's just a lot easier to point the finger and go, they're not performing here. They're not doing this. They're not meeting this and going, okay. And knowing your role, if this, and I like to use the parent analogy, but it's my kids, love them to death. They're going to hear the hard things one way or the other, but I have, it's my responsibility at the end of the day to make sure they do great things. So. no different than as a leader in that situation. Point the thumb, what can you own? What can you go back differently? Is there something you can do to change that behavior? Because is it the person that's bad or is it just the behavior that we need changed?
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah, being willing to have that conversation and being aware enough of yourself and then also unbiased enough of observing how they're showing up in a way that's not tainted by whatever challenging situation you've had with them.
Chris Sund: Yes, great points. Care to dive in a little bit more on just on the bias side of it.
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah, you know it's funny I've had this happen. I've done, I don't do a ton of workshops each year just because I tend to, especially when there are full days or multi-day because it does become a full project and so. I do a couple a year and I worked with a couple different companies last year and the year before where we had some serious challenges with people and serious conflict. And what I found and I get very intentional where I kind of forced them together in these workshop situations to get to have these deeper conversations, but not about the work, about the person. And what I have seen happen every single time is that when they actually are facilitated to get to know each other from a human level, those biases change. The biases go away because we're actually seeing the human and the person versus the worker or versus the problem that we have with them. so I think we create a bias and we create a story when we don't have anything else to fill the space.
Chris Sund: Mmm. Yep. I really love what you just said there. ⁓ I think people probably need to hear that again Because everyone has a situation It doesn't matter if it's work or life where you have that you just telling your gut. It's not there How do you if you know that's there and you're helping with that?
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah.
Chris Sund: What's that look like? you share a little bit of what you're going to do to try to open them up to get to that level?
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah, well, a lot of it has to do with the pre-work too. So I get to know people, you know, especially if there is a challenging situation, I will have one-on-one conversations with them before we're on site to make sure that I understand where they're coming from so that I can, you know, facilitate it in the best and the most peaceful way possible, you know, know where their limits are, know where their boundaries are, ⁓ but also have the background so that, you know, those conversations can be really intentional. And that's really where that then leads. And then it's really, to me, think important to have a slow escalation of... realness, know, authenticity or vulnerability in those conversations, which are so important, but you can't come out of the gate and be like, all right, guys, tell each other your deepest, darkest secrets. You just sat down with each other, but really start to get to know each other step by step. And so it's very strategic in that. And it changes based on, you know, the situation, the organization, the challenges, but we grow that relationship pretty much on site. And it has happened, you know, several times repeatedly where it's like once actually built that connection and built that relationship, the respect shows up, the conversation continues, and the conflict dies.
Chris Sund: ⁓ that is wonderful advice. I've had the pleasure of, ⁓ Patrick Lencioni has the book, the five dysfunctions of a, and he has the table group, which is his coaching aspects. And I've had the pleasure, it's been a while, but I have pleasure working with the table group in the past and going in on a team and basically trying to make sure it's as cohesive.
Rachel DeAlto: Hmm.
Chris Sund: organized and structured as best possible. One of the activities they do, Ref the Bat, if, especially if they don't feel a team is together, is to have everyone share a story. It's usually pretty emotional that has made a profound impact on their life. Something that is, they may be a certain way because this happened to them. And it, what it does is, I mean, as you just said, figuring out what people, where they came from, where they walked, and all of sudden the light bulb goes off and you're like, no wonder they're kind of seen that way. When I asked that question, that explains a lot. They're trying intentionally or doing that. This is just, this is more important to them than maybe that. And that's why they seem that way. So.
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah. We infuse meaning into everything and we make it all about us too. We're like, well, you know, clearly they're being rude to me or they're, you know, this reaction is, because of, you know, XYZ and it's not necessarily the case. So I love that. Very cool.
Chris Sund: Yeah, well, and I love how much you're coaching. mean, borderline, your life coach slash therapy session going into some of these companies. ⁓
Rachel DeAlto: I, you know, it's funny, I did get a master's in psychology years ago to understand people and to research. I really did it for the research perspective of things so that I could do my own research. But, know, the psyche is interesting. We are fascinating creatures. And so being able to kind of put a name to things or to understand, you know, the why, you know, why we show up a certain way or why we do things has been very helpful.
Chris Sund: Oh, I can imagine. Add that to another one of your school links. And that's one of the things I could say I've enjoyed so much from this conversation is, mean, Rachel, you've, we were joking earlier about like some sports person I interviewed, I goofed up on it, but you're joking on what you've done. Your experience is something that not too many people can say between not just the educationals things aside.
Rachel DeAlto: Yeah.
Chris Sund: We talk about the books, we talk what it's like to build a startup company, having to wind down a company, and now to go in and help other companies get better. And so first off, thank you, because I've learned so much from talking with you and taking, and I have no doubt the audience is gonna do that. ⁓ I just wanna share that with you personally.
Rachel DeAlto: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I always took her around. was like, I've never climbed Everest. I have no gold medals. So sometimes, know, especially being in the speaker community, I'm always like, wait, I've done nothing. I know nothing.
Chris Sund: You have done plenty in all those things take immense hard work and have given you valuable lessons that I mean, you could break down any of those and say, Hey, I just like to have coffee and pick your brain. I guess I'd like to wrap up though. If, ⁓ if there is one piece of advice, you'd go back and tell yourself, I want to go really far. Let's go like 20 years back. 20 years ago, when you go back and say, this is advice I'd give you, what would that be?
Rachel DeAlto: ⁓ I would say stop trying to prove yourself. You know, it's because I literally just said, you know, I didn't do this and I didn't do that. Like, what is that? You know, I think that's a really difficult thing. for any of us to kind of wrap our heads around is like, you know, feeling like you have to have these accomplishments or feeling like you've got to prove that you're smart or capable. You know, I think so much of that is just ego and so unnecessary. So I would say, you know, just stop trying to prove yourself and really focus on impact.
Chris Sund: Yeah, could not agree more to say at least. So the impact's what's gonna really matter long, long time from now. So great advice. Thank you so much again. And for everyone listening in the notes for this podcast, please look, there'll be a link to Rachel's website and I'll also put in some information around her books as well. So you can go get your copies. All right. Thanks for being on here, Rachel.
Rachel DeAlto: Thanks for having me.
Chris Sund: All right.

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