# The Things He Couldn’t Say

An episode of [Badge of Betrayal](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1852919243), 5 Oct 2026, 22 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/fbab9570-a7a3-4fd4-a673-b3940044b1b8/08316e80-5e42-4c68-972e-b4da018a213b/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=2f1fa4b5-119b-41b5-8749-b3940044b5a4

This special episode is being released across both Our Little Edey and Badge of Betrayal, as new information intersects with both stories the death of Eden Westbrook and wider questions surrounding Tasmania Police. A former Tasmania Police staff member shares what Sergeant Robert “Cookie” Cook told her about his time in St Helens, while another witness comes forward with fresh allegations and a disturbing memory involving “Kate.” Plus, we bring you the latest developments from the parliamentary inquiry into Tasmania Police. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:05] Speaker 1: A Poche Production.
[0:12] Speaker 2: Welcome to this double drop of Badger Betrayal and Our
[0:15] Speaker 2: Little Edie. We've decided to publish this episode across both
[0:19] Speaker 2: channels because some of the information in it concerns both
[0:22] Speaker 2: the Eden Westbrook case and the Tasmanian police force. If
[0:27] Speaker 2: you haven't yet listened to either podcast, then I invite
[0:30] Speaker 2: you to follow Our Little Edie or Badger Betrayal on
[0:33] Speaker 2: your favourite podcast app. I also invite you to join
[0:36] Speaker 2: our Patreon page at Podshape True Crime. We've put a
[0:40] Speaker 2: link in the show notes and it's where you can
[0:42] Speaker 2: get live case news and extra details about both podcasts.
[0:47] Speaker 2: To those that have already joined, thank you. But let's
[0:52] Speaker 2: start with the information we received a few weeks ago.
[0:55] Speaker 2: It's from a woman we've been in touch with across
[0:58] Speaker 2: the In Westbrook podcast for the last few years.
[1:03] Speaker 3: Okay, so my name is Christine. I worked for TASPOL for,
[1:10] Speaker 3: I was employed by them for approximately 15 years. Whilst
[1:13] Speaker 3: I was on workers' compensation, I took a payout, but
[1:18] Speaker 3: I still have other matters against TASPOL before the courts.
[1:22] Speaker 2: Christine, the information that we received from other people, but
[1:26] Speaker 2: not from you, and I'm going to ask you this now,
[1:29] Speaker 2: was a conversation that happened with a man that, took
[1:33] Speaker 2: his own life, a police officer, and in fact he
[1:36] Speaker 2: was part of the same inquest into the deaths of
[1:41] Speaker 2: four police officers at the time, which was the same
[1:45] Speaker 2: inquest that Reynolds was tied up in. His name was Cook.
[1:51] Speaker 2: Can you tell me who he was and your relationship
[1:54] Speaker 2: to him?
[1:56] Speaker 3: So that was Sergeant Robert Cook. Him and I were
[1:59] Speaker 3: really close. He was an admin sergeant for a little
[2:03] Speaker 3: while when I was working at operations support in the city.
[2:06] Speaker 3: And then we became really close friends from there. And
[2:10] Speaker 3: then when he was put to the academy, he was
[2:13] Speaker 3: there as the admin sergeant for a little while as well.
[2:16] Speaker 3: But we often caught up outside of work. We were
[2:21] Speaker 3: always in constant contact. And when he was in the St.
[2:24] Speaker 3: Helens clinic, I would often go and see him and
[2:28] Speaker 3: catch up for breakfast with him on a Saturday morning
[2:32] Speaker 3: if I could. Yeah, so much so that after he
[2:35] Speaker 3: took his life, I've got his name actually tattooed on
[2:38] Speaker 3: his badge number.
[2:40] Speaker 2: He was a good police officer and by no means
[2:44] Speaker 2: are we to tarnish his name or reputation in this
[2:47] Speaker 2: conversation that we're having.
[2:49] Speaker 3: Because obviously, like a lot of people are devastated with
[2:53] Speaker 3: the loss of Cookie.
[2:55] Speaker 2: You might know the name Robert Cook. He was one
[2:58] Speaker 2: of the officers that was included in the same coronial
[3:00] Speaker 2: finding as Paul Reynolds. From that coronial finding, there were
[3:04] Speaker 2: glaring reports of Robert Cook, a man that everyone knew
[3:08] Speaker 2: as Cookie.
[3:11] Speaker 1: At the time of his death, he was still a
[3:13] Speaker 1: sergeant in Tasmania Police, although by then very ill with PTSD,
[3:18] Speaker 1: unable to work and in receipt of benefits under the Workers'
[3:20] Speaker 1: Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 1988. All witnesses who gave evidence
[3:25] Speaker 1: at the inquest about him spoke glowingly of Sergeant Cook
[3:28] Speaker 1: as a man, police officer, father and friend. Even allowing
[3:32] Speaker 1: for the all-too-human and very common tendency to exaggerate the
[3:36] Speaker 1: personal qualities of a person after death, it is evident
[3:39] Speaker 1: he was universally liked, respected and admired by his colleagues.
[3:44] Speaker 1: For example, Senior Sergeant Bennett, who knew Sergeant Cook very well,
[3:48] Speaker 1: was asked questions about Sergeant Cook by Mr Harris, counsel
[3:51] Speaker 1: for the Police Association of Tasmania. Senior Sergeant Bennett described
[3:55] Speaker 1: Sergeant Cook as appearing stoic, being looked up to and
[3:58] Speaker 1: revered by many serving police officers. He said Sergeant Cook
[4:02] Speaker 1: was the leader that everyone else wanted to be.
[4:06] Speaker 2: Cook was working as a police officer up until 2019.
[4:09] Speaker 2: In 2020, he took his own life after suffering significant
[4:14] Speaker 2: mental health issues. Across the period of his work with TASPOL,
[4:18] Speaker 2: he was diagnosed with severe PTSD.
[4:21] Speaker 3: So this is where it's sort of come a bit
[4:23] Speaker 3: unstuck for me because my ex-husband, who was a police officer, said, oh,
[4:28] Speaker 3: Cookie's gone to St Helens. And I thought, I never
[4:31] Speaker 3: thought he'd go back to bloody St Helens. And he goes, no,
[4:35] Speaker 3: St Helens is the clinic, the mental health clinic, not
[4:37] Speaker 3: St Helens the town.
[4:39] Speaker 2: St Helens Psychiatric Hospital, which is now closed, was a
[4:42] Speaker 2: private hospital that had a mother and baby unit and
[4:45] Speaker 2: also offered psychiatric care for other private patients. It's alleged
[4:50] Speaker 2: that Robert Cook... was a patient of the hospital.
[4:53] Speaker 3: I said, oh, right, okay then. So Cookie had contacted
[4:56] Speaker 3: me once and said that my voice wanted to be
[4:59] Speaker 3: the last one that he heard before he went to
[5:01] Speaker 3: take his life, so I understood his mental health issues,
[5:05] Speaker 3: which I reached out to some commanders for some help. Anyway,
[5:09] Speaker 3: I went and saw Cookie, and he was a mess,
[5:14] Speaker 3: an absolute mess. And I said to him, I said,
[5:17] Speaker 3: I thought you went back to St Helens. And he goes,
[5:19] Speaker 3: you'll know I'll never go back there. And I said, why?
[5:22] Speaker 3: And he goes, you know what? He said, no one
[5:25] Speaker 3: listens to me. No one has been listening to me.
[5:27] Speaker 3: He said, I've got stuff for this department that I'm
[5:30] Speaker 3: not proud of, and yet they're treating me this way,
[5:34] Speaker 3: which he didn't actually go into the details of it,
[5:37] Speaker 3: but I know that his time at the St Helens
[5:39] Speaker 3: with whatever he did up there also impacted on his
[5:42] Speaker 3: mental health.
[5:43] Speaker 2: Did Cookie ever tell you that he was uneasy about
[5:47] Speaker 2: the investigation into Eden Westbrook?
[5:50] Speaker 3: He was just uneasy about his time in St Helens
[5:52] Speaker 3: in general with what he experienced, what he saw and
[5:55] Speaker 3: what he knew. That's all he said to me. That's
[5:57] Speaker 3: why when I was told he was back at St Helens,
[5:59] Speaker 3: I thought, wow. I didn't know what had actually happened
[6:03] Speaker 3: at St Helens. I just know that he said that
[6:05] Speaker 3: he was part of something that, yeah, he wasn't proud of.
[6:08] Speaker 3: And as he said, he said, do I have to, well,
[6:11] Speaker 3: I don't really want to swear, but he said, do
[6:13] Speaker 3: I have to do, like, stab somebody in the neck
[6:16] Speaker 3: in St Helens? them all for people to hear me
[6:19] Speaker 3: he said because no one's listening to me no one's
[6:21] Speaker 3: taking any notice of me management don't care and so
[6:25] Speaker 3: I kept trying to say well what is it that
[6:26] Speaker 3: was so bad he said I don't want to involve
[6:28] Speaker 3: you he said but I will never step a foot
[6:30] Speaker 3: in there ever again I will never do it again
[6:33] Speaker 3: and that's all I know I never wanted to pry
[6:36] Speaker 3: him too much especially when he was in the clinic
[6:39] Speaker 3: and he was very emotional whenever we did catch up
[6:42] Speaker 3: From what the coroner has said, that it was because
[6:46] Speaker 3: of his PTSD from the front line. I don't, I
[6:50] Speaker 3: believe there was one episode that was pretty bad for him, significant,
[6:54] Speaker 3: but I don't believe that's why he took his life.
[6:56] Speaker 3: He did have relationship issues, I understand that, but he
[7:00] Speaker 3: was mainly more disappointed and upset with how management were
[7:04] Speaker 3: treating him in that space. He was asking for help
[7:08] Speaker 3: for certain things that he was going through in his
[7:10] Speaker 3: private life and other things that he had done that
[7:13] Speaker 3: he was mentally struggling with. This is what he told
[7:15] Speaker 3: me anyway. And they just weren't helping him. They weren't interested.
[7:19] Speaker 3: And that's why he was sending emails. I know he
[7:22] Speaker 3: was under a bit of pressure when he was at
[7:24] Speaker 3: Oatlands because we both worked on the 2019 fires. And
[7:28] Speaker 3: I do understand his frustration with the management of that
[7:33] Speaker 3: space because But do I believe he took his life
[7:36] Speaker 3: because of what he had witnessed on the front line? No,
[7:39] Speaker 3: he was hardcore. It was more in relation to how
[7:42] Speaker 3: management had treated him when he was asking for help.
[7:45] Speaker 3: And his words, after everything I've done for them, they
[7:48] Speaker 3: couldn't help me out.
[7:50] Speaker 2: Christine told us that Cook was upset about what happened
[7:54] Speaker 2: in St Helens. We know from his police records that
[7:58] Speaker 2: he was working the radio dispatch service at the time
[8:01] Speaker 2: of Eden Westbrook's death. We formally lodged an RTI request
[8:05] Speaker 2: to find out whether he had any other involvement in
[8:09] Speaker 2: Eden's case and whether the things Christine said had anything
[8:13] Speaker 2: to do with Eden Westbrook or the St Helens Police Station.
[8:18] Speaker 2: Without trying to draw any conclusions from what happened, Cook
[8:21] Speaker 2: died in the same manner as Eden died. He was
[8:25] Speaker 2: found at his home. In the second half of this episode,
[8:29] Speaker 2: we have more information that came forward about Eden's case.
[8:33] Speaker 2: In the first instance, it went to Jason and Amanda Westbrook,
[8:37] Speaker 2: and then they reached out to me to see if
[8:38] Speaker 2: this information might help. Often, when we get information, we
[8:42] Speaker 2: don't know where it might land. Now, this person wishes
[8:46] Speaker 2: to stay anonymous, so we'll call him James, but that's
[8:48] Speaker 2: not his real name. We've also used a voice actor
[8:51] Speaker 2: to speak his exact words from a transcript of our
[8:55] Speaker 2: call with him. And tell me why you don't want
[8:59] Speaker 2: to use your real name.
[9:01] Speaker 1: Oh, because I'm looking at a career in the police
[9:03] Speaker 1: force and I don't want anything to jeopardise that. But
[9:06] Speaker 1: I also want to do what's right and bring whatever
[9:09] Speaker 1: information I have, bring who's responsible to justice.
[9:14] Speaker 2: James grew up in Tasmania on the east coast and
[9:16] Speaker 2: hung out a fair bit in St Helens. He lived
[9:19] Speaker 2: there for a short time, but also lived in some
[9:21] Speaker 2: neighbouring towns.
[9:23] Speaker 1: Yep. Um, so when I was living in Scamander, me
[9:27] Speaker 1: and my group of friends, we had, we had this,
[9:29] Speaker 1: you know, a couple of old cars and we'd either
[9:32] Speaker 1: take them up the bush or we'd just take them
[9:34] Speaker 1: out the back of Scamander there to a reserve. And
[9:37] Speaker 1: this one particular time there was no cars in sight,
[9:41] Speaker 1: but me being honest in that the police turned up
[9:44] Speaker 1: and asked who was driving and me being the honest
[9:47] Speaker 1: one that I am, I, uh, I took the rap
[9:49] Speaker 1: for myself and my group of friends. And on this
[9:52] Speaker 1: particular occasion, I think I was about maybe 15 or something.
[9:57] Speaker 1: I only had my learners at the time, but I
[9:59] Speaker 1: didn't have an accompanied driver with me. The car was unregistered.
[10:03] Speaker 1: It's just what you do down there as... there's not
[10:05] Speaker 1: a lot to do on the East Coast. And yeah,
[10:08] Speaker 1: this one officer arrested me. He put the cuffs on
[10:12] Speaker 1: me that tight that my wrists were bleeding before I
[10:15] Speaker 1: got from Scamander to St. Helens. And I was actually
[10:19] Speaker 1: taken into the police station and questioned without a parent
[10:23] Speaker 1: or guardian there with me, which I think is illegal.
[10:27] Speaker 2: That officer was from St Helens, were they? Correct.
[10:31] Speaker 1: I can't, I can't remember the, I honestly can't remember
[10:34] Speaker 1: the name of the arresting officer.
[10:35] Speaker 2: Do you remember what they looked like?
[10:38] Speaker 1: They were bigger built. They were heavy set.
[10:42] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. And middle aged. We've established in the conversations
[10:46] Speaker 2: we've had previously that that that wasn't Paul Reynolds, just
[10:50] Speaker 2: for those that are trying to piece together a piece
[10:53] Speaker 2: of a puzzle that might not exist. Reynolds was never
[10:56] Speaker 2: stationed down in St Helens. That doesn't mean he didn't
[11:00] Speaker 2: attend there, but he was never stationed there. There are
[11:03] Speaker 2: other officers that we have discussed and it's hard to
[11:07] Speaker 2: actually pinpoint which officer it might have been. After you
[11:12] Speaker 2: were arrested, were you charged?
[11:16] Speaker 1: I believe I was, yes, because I had to attend
[11:19] Speaker 1: the break-o-day council chambers in the courtroom.
[11:23] Speaker 2: And you've since gone to the courts and asked for
[11:28] Speaker 2: records of that. I have, yes.
[11:32] Speaker 1: But they informed me that because it's been archived for
[11:35] Speaker 1: so long, the details of the arresting officer are no
[11:39] Speaker 1: longer on there. And the only things that is detailed
[11:42] Speaker 1: on those documents are the time, the date and the
[11:48] Speaker 1: punishment I received, such as fines, etc.
[11:51] Speaker 2: What was the punishment you received?
[11:54] Speaker 1: I believe I received a three-month loss of licence and
[11:57] Speaker 1: I had to restart my learner hours all over again
[12:01] Speaker 1: and I got a 12-month good behaviour bond.
[12:04] Speaker 2: The officer that arrested you then took you back to
[12:08] Speaker 2: your home in Scamander?
[12:09] Speaker 3: He did, yes.
[12:11] Speaker 2: What happened there?
[12:12] Speaker 1: I thought him taking me home was a bit odd. But, yeah,
[12:15] Speaker 1: once I got out and walked inside, he continued to
[12:18] Speaker 1: follow me inside, didn't even knock or anything. He just
[12:21] Speaker 1: walked inside and, yeah, addressed my mother.
[12:25] Speaker 2: And what did he say?
[12:27] Speaker 1: I believe he just referred to my mother by her
[12:30] Speaker 1: last name and then continued to tell my mum what
[12:33] Speaker 1: I'd done at that stage and what the charges were and, yeah.
[12:39] Speaker 2: And that was the first time your mum heard... about this,
[12:43] Speaker 2: so she wasn't contacted by police before that moment? No.
[12:48] Speaker 1: No, Mum was unaware that I'd been arrested and taken
[12:50] Speaker 1: into the St Helens Police Station.
[12:52] Speaker 2: Do you recall at that young age whether you were
[12:56] Speaker 2: asked whether there was anyone that you wanted to call
[12:58] Speaker 2: when you were arrested and taken to the police station?
[13:01] Speaker 1: At that age, I believe that if I was asked,
[13:05] Speaker 1: it most definitely would have been, you know, ring my mum. Because, yeah, look,
[13:10] Speaker 1: me and my mum had a really good relationship while
[13:13] Speaker 1: I was growing up. And if I was ever in trouble,
[13:16] Speaker 1: she'd be the first one that I'd call. But I don't, yeah,
[13:19] Speaker 1: I wasn't given that opportunity.
[13:23] Speaker 2: The account you've just heard is based on James's recollection
[13:27] Speaker 2: of events in around 2019. He says he was a
[13:31] Speaker 2: learner driver and was stopped while driving without an accompanied
[13:35] Speaker 2: licensed driver. And while the vehicle was unregistered, He was
[13:38] Speaker 2: subsequently handcuffed and transported from Scamander, where he lived, to
[13:42] Speaker 2: St Helens Police Station. Now, we've not been able to
[13:46] Speaker 2: independently verify all aspects of his account through Tasmanian Police records. Accordingly,
[13:52] Speaker 2: his descriptions of the arrest and the conduct of individual
[13:55] Speaker 2: officers and the reasons given for taking him into custody
[13:59] Speaker 2: should be treated as allegations, unless, of course, they're supported
[14:02] Speaker 2: by further evidence, which we are looking into. Tasmanian law
[14:07] Speaker 2: does allow police to arrest young people in certain circumstances,
[14:11] Speaker 2: but specific safeguards apply to people under 18. Whether James' arrest,
[14:16] Speaker 2: the use of handcuffs and transport to St Helens were
[14:19] Speaker 2: justified would depend on circumstances known to police at the
[14:23] Speaker 2: time and, of course, the legal basis relied upon by
[14:27] Speaker 2: the officers involved. And so you then, without putting words
[14:35] Speaker 2: in your mouth... had more challenges with police officers down
[14:39] Speaker 2: in St. Alan's over a sustained period of time after
[14:42] Speaker 2: that initial arrest? Correct.
[14:46] Speaker 1: Yes.
[14:47] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[14:47] Speaker 1: They, they believed that I should have copped a lot
[14:49] Speaker 1: more punishment than what I did. And yeah, but ever
[14:53] Speaker 1: since then and yeah, since I got my whatever yeah,
[14:57] Speaker 1: I believe I was, I was very well picked out
[14:59] Speaker 1: of a crowd and targeted along with a, along with
[15:02] Speaker 1: a couple of others as well.
[15:03] Speaker 2: By that same officer that arrested you? No, no.
[15:07] Speaker 1: I was harassed by two police officers in particular down
[15:11] Speaker 1: there while growing up.
[15:13] Speaker 2: And these officers you know by name? Yes. Have you
[15:18] Speaker 2: ever made a formal complaint about the treatment that you
[15:21] Speaker 2: received from these officers? I haven't, no. Did you make
[15:25] Speaker 2: a statement or a submission to the government inquiry into
[15:28] Speaker 2: Tasmanian Police? No. Can I ask why?
[15:31] Speaker 1: Because, look, I honestly, I would have thought that nothing,
[15:34] Speaker 1: nothing would have been done because, you know, when it's
[15:37] Speaker 1: something coming like that, it's police investigating police. And, look,
[15:41] Speaker 1: we've all heard stories and that, even, you know, back
[15:44] Speaker 1: when I was at a young age and whatever.
[15:47] Speaker 2: Look, we all.
[15:48] Speaker 1: Know that, you know, the police, you know, it's police
[15:51] Speaker 1: investigating police and it's, you know, a lot of the
[15:54] Speaker 1: time there's not a lot done.
[15:58] Speaker 2: There aren't many more allegations this person has made to us,
[16:01] Speaker 2: not just about police, but allegations of alleged abuse by
[16:04] Speaker 2: a member of the community, as well as allegations against
[16:08] Speaker 2: school teachers. We're in the process of verifying some of
[16:11] Speaker 2: those allegations. In the next part of our interview, he
[16:14] Speaker 2: references the girl we have called Kate in the podcast
[16:17] Speaker 2: Our Little Edie. Kate is not her real name. Kate
[16:20] Speaker 2: was allegedly the last person to see Eden alive. She
[16:24] Speaker 2: told the family in the days after Eden's death could
[16:27] Speaker 2: have stopped it she denies that she ever said that
[16:30] Speaker 2: kate for almost nine years was never spoken to by
[16:33] Speaker 2: police in a formal setting in the last few years
[16:37] Speaker 2: once the podcast began and noise started to happen she
[16:41] Speaker 2: was finally interviewed by police you knew of kate when
[16:45] Speaker 2: she was quite young sure i did yes so how
[16:50] Speaker 2: old were you and how old was she.
[16:53] Speaker 1: Look, I might have been 19, 20, and she would
[16:56] Speaker 1: have been, I don't know, 13, 14, maybe.
[16:59] Speaker 2: And you met Kate through a family acquaintance. Is that right?
[17:03] Speaker 2: I did. Yes. You had an incident with Kate that
[17:08] Speaker 2: you recall to me. And that's, to be honest, the
[17:11] Speaker 2: reason we started speaking. In fact, it's the conversation you
[17:15] Speaker 2: had first with Jason and Amanda Westbrook, who then told
[17:18] Speaker 2: me that you were willing to come forward on the
[17:20] Speaker 2: podcast and have a conversation. Can you recount the conversation
[17:23] Speaker 2: you had with Jason and Amanda and the conversation we
[17:26] Speaker 2: had previously? Yeah.
[17:28] Speaker 1: So, look, I just, I didn't think anything of what
[17:31] Speaker 1: I'd heard. Oh, sorry, not what I'd heard, what I'd
[17:35] Speaker 1: actually experienced. And I, look, I avoided listening to the
[17:40] Speaker 1: Our Little Edie podcast because, you know, like it was
[17:43] Speaker 1: so close to home and me having my own daughters
[17:46] Speaker 1: and yeah, it was a little bit, you know, it
[17:49] Speaker 1: hit too close to home and I just, yeah, I
[17:51] Speaker 1: wasn't ready for it, but I was, um, look, I
[17:55] Speaker 1: gave it a listen and yeah, once I was listening
[17:58] Speaker 1: to the podcast, I, um, yeah, I started putting two,
[18:02] Speaker 1: two and two together and yeah, I just had a
[18:04] Speaker 1: couple of memories come flooding back and, you know, I
[18:07] Speaker 1: thought they might be of great significance.
[18:10] Speaker 2: Can you talk to me about those memories? Yeah.
[18:12] Speaker 1: So this one particular evening, look, I'm not going to
[18:17] Speaker 1: say what I was actually doing at the time because
[18:20] Speaker 1: I reckon that would give it away. But I had
[18:23] Speaker 1: a conversation with Kate about, you know, just it was just,
[18:27] Speaker 1: you know, normal conversation.
[18:29] Speaker 3: And.
[18:30] Speaker 1: Then, I believe that, you know, a few months prior
[18:34] Speaker 1: to this, there was a suicide that was in Street
[18:38] Speaker 1: Helens or down that way. And anyway, so topic changed
[18:42] Speaker 1: to that. And I remember this one particular evening where
[18:46] Speaker 1: Kate said to me she had been drinking and, you know, look,
[18:50] Speaker 1: I thought at this time, I thought it was just
[18:52] Speaker 1: something that a drunk, dumb, drunk teenager would say. But
[18:56] Speaker 1: now that all this I've listened to the podcast, I'm yeah,
[19:01] Speaker 1: I'm not so sure. But what she said to me,
[19:04] Speaker 1: it was along the lines of suicide is a choice
[19:08] Speaker 1: and that I support it. And if someone is unsure,
[19:11] Speaker 1: I will make it happen because I have made a
[19:14] Speaker 1: pact with the devil or a deal with the devil.
[19:17] Speaker 2: And at the time, your thoughts were that she was
[19:21] Speaker 2: just young and probably drunk.
[19:24] Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, at that time, like that's, that's exactly what
[19:27] Speaker 1: I thought. And, you know, like I haven't, I haven't
[19:30] Speaker 1: thought about it since. Um, but yeah, after listening to
[19:34] Speaker 1: the podcast and everything, yeah, that, that memory came flooding back.
[19:38] Speaker 1: And I just, yeah, I, I just thought, wow, could
[19:42] Speaker 1: it be this person that, you know, that I've had
[19:44] Speaker 1: this conversation that I had this conversation with many years ago.
[19:47] Speaker 2: So now that you've, heard the podcast, the allegations that
[19:52] Speaker 2: have been made around Kate and the fact that she
[19:55] Speaker 2: only ever been questioned once by police, which ended up
[19:57] Speaker 2: being in 2023. How do you feel about that? Oh, look,
[20:02] Speaker 2: I 100% I'm not OK with that.
[20:06] Speaker 1: I believe that Kate knows a lot more than what
[20:09] Speaker 1: she is letting on. And yeah, I'm, and being only
[20:12] Speaker 1: questioned once that, yeah, that's, yeah, I don't think that,
[20:16] Speaker 1: I don't think that's acceptable. And again, I don't, yeah, personally,
[20:20] Speaker 1: I don't think a investigation was carried out correctly down there.
[20:25] Speaker 2: We have an open invitation for Kate to join us
[20:28] Speaker 2: on the podcast, which we've had open for the last
[20:31] Speaker 2: few years. To date, she's declined and also threatened legal
[20:35] Speaker 2: action if we attempt to contact her again. To end
[20:39] Speaker 2: this episode, I want to give you an update on
[20:41] Speaker 2: the inquiry into Tasmanian police and the allegations of officer misconduct,
[20:46] Speaker 2: including allegations against Paul Reynolds. The second tranche of submissions
[20:51] Speaker 2: has now been published on the inquiry's website. When we
[20:55] Speaker 2: got this alert on Friday afternoon, we were hopeful we
[20:57] Speaker 2: could learn more about the breadth and the depth of
[21:00] Speaker 2: submissions that have been made There were 15 new submissions
[21:04] Speaker 2: that went live on Friday. All of these have been
[21:08] Speaker 2: marked as private witnesses. This means the committee has either
[21:12] Speaker 2: agreed the submission can be kept anonymous and they'll consider
[21:16] Speaker 2: the information as part of their investigations. However, we have
[21:20] Speaker 2: asked the committee to clarify whether the committee themselves decided
[21:24] Speaker 2: to keep the information private until such time as the
[21:28] Speaker 2: public hearings. We'll update you on that information once we
[21:32] Speaker 2: get it. If you want to follow the case of
[21:34] Speaker 2: Eden Westbrook or Badger Betrayal, feel free to support our
[21:37] Speaker 2: independent storytelling at our Patreon page. Just search Podshaped True
[21:42] Speaker 2: Crime or there's a link in the show notes. Thanks
[21:45] Speaker 2: for listening.

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