# The SEC Roots Out Golf on the Taxpayer Dime

An episode of [Disclosure](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1847986591), 22 Oct 2026, 28 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/tracking.swap.fm/track/UVBrz8bN8aM2Xe47PEPu/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/52867e9a-91f7-42c6-8553-b37800ff5dfb/b26069c7-9b2e-426a-819a-b4ea016d1036/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=4cfad03b-3a6c-4b80-9626-b37800ff61ce

When the Securities and Exchange Commission announced earlier this year that it had disciplined workers for golfing on the job, investigative reporter Jason Leopold shot off a FOIA request. Co-host Matt Topic, who is an accomplished golfer, and Jason, who isn’t, pore over records he received about the SEC’s internal investigation. They learn how a few words overheard on a golf course launched a Caddyshack-worthy investigation into allegations of government waste and abuse – or, in this instance, “known golf activity.” Subscribe to the FOIA Files newsletter at https://www.bloomberg.com/account/newsletters/foia-files. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Oh, Jason, you have no idea how deep golf addiction runs.
[0:04] Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't until I got a copy of
[0:07] Speaker 2: this SEC investigative report. And you know, Matt, I'm glad
[0:10] Speaker 2: I FOIA'd that.
[0:11] Speaker 1: And Jason, again, is patting himself on the back. Literally.
[0:14] Speaker 2: Tee it up! I'm investigative journalist Jason Leopold. I spend
[0:19] Speaker 2: most of my days getting documents from the government.
[0:21] Speaker 1: I'm attorney Matt Topic, and I fight them in court
[0:24] Speaker 1: to open their files when they don't want to.
[0:26] Speaker 2: From Bloomberg and No Smiling, this is Disclosure. a podcast
[0:30] Speaker 2: about pying loose government secrets, the Freedom of Information Act,
[0:34] Speaker 2: and the unexpected places that takes us. Hey, Matt.
[0:40] Speaker 1: Hey, Jason.
[0:41] Speaker 2: Look at that shirt you're wearing. Is that a golf shirt?
[0:43] Speaker 1: It's a bright yellow fluorescent golf shirt my kids gave
[0:48] Speaker 1: me many years ago for Father's Day. And I even
[0:50] Speaker 1: have a hat on that says golf, in case you
[0:52] Speaker 1: weren't sure. If I could just hang out with my family...
[0:55] Speaker 1: play golf, and fight with the government, that would be
[0:58] Speaker 1: a complete and full life for me.
[1:00] Speaker 2: Do you remember our golf story, our golf outing?
[1:03] Speaker 1: I do remember our golf outing.
[1:05] Speaker 2: I'm not a golfer, but you invited me on.
[1:07] Speaker 1: Yeah, that was clear when you showed up in vans
[1:09] Speaker 1: and a leather jacket.
[1:10] Speaker 2: I didn't wear a leather jacket.
[1:12] Speaker 1: I think you maybe did.
[1:13] Speaker 2: You were driving the golf cart, and I stuck my
[1:17] Speaker 2: hand out to try to get a golf ball while
[1:19] Speaker 2: the cart was going and tweaked my shoulder.
[1:21] Speaker 1: It would have been hilarious if you fell out, but no,
[1:24] Speaker 1: it messed you up for a little while.
[1:25] Speaker 2: When you usually play golf, what time of day is it?
[1:28] Speaker 1: I mean, whenever. I've played it one in the afternoon
[1:30] Speaker 1: when it's 95 degrees out.
[1:32] Speaker 2: Do you play during work hours?
[1:34] Speaker 1: Well, see, that's a trick question, Jason, because I don't
[1:37] Speaker 1: really have work hours.
[1:39] Speaker 2: Oh.
[1:39] Speaker 1: My work-life balance is really just a big old mush
[1:42] Speaker 1: of all of it together. I don't ever I never
[1:45] Speaker 1: bill clients for time that I spend on a golf course.
[1:47] Speaker 1: Maybe that's the best way to answer your question.
[1:49] Speaker 2: You know who does love to golf during office hours, Matt?
[1:53] Speaker 1: Tell me.
[1:54] Speaker 2: SEC employees, according to an inspector general report I recently received.
[1:59] Speaker 1: Wait, SEC employees playing golf during work hours. Like you
[2:03] Speaker 1: can't make this up, can you?
[2:05] Speaker 2: Back in March, while scrolling through the SEC's website, An
[2:09] Speaker 2: announcement caught my eye. Here's what it said. SEC information
[2:13] Speaker 2: technology supervisor resigned and two employees were suspended following investigation
[2:20] Speaker 2: into whether they golfed during duty hours without taking leave.
[2:25] Speaker 2: So I saw this and you know what I had
[2:27] Speaker 2: to do, Matt. Gotta for you that. So what did
[2:31] Speaker 2: you ask for in your request? Well, my summer reading
[2:34] Speaker 2: list was looking a bit thin, Matt. So I just
[2:36] Speaker 2: filed a request for the full copy of the Inspector
[2:40] Speaker 2: General's investigation. It took about three months for them to
[2:43] Speaker 2: send it to me, which, you know, these days, that's
[2:46] Speaker 2: pretty quick. It's 11 pages. But Matt, this report does
[2:50] Speaker 2: not disappoint. What's the cover page say?
[2:53] Speaker 1: It looks very official, and it has a seal with
[2:56] Speaker 1: an eagle on it. Office of Inspector General, U.S. Securities
[3:00] Speaker 1: and Exchange Commission, report of investigation, SEC employee misconduct redacted.
[3:07] Speaker 1: I would not want to be the person who's subject
[3:09] Speaker 1: to a report that looks like this. So I got
[3:11] Speaker 1: to know, Jason, where does this investigation begin?
[3:14] Speaker 2: So back in August 2024, the SEC's Office of General
[3:18] Speaker 2: Counsel received a complaint. Somebody overhears a conversation at a
[3:23] Speaker 2: Maryland golf course. And then the next thing you know,
[3:27] Speaker 2: this person sends an anonymous tip to the SEC's Office
[3:31] Speaker 2: of General Counsel. The report contains all of the highlights. Matt,
[3:35] Speaker 2: you want to read what it says?
[3:36] Speaker 1: In their email, the anonymous complainant reported that they overheard
[3:39] Speaker 1: golfers believed to be SEC employees refer to, quote, SEC
[3:44] Speaker 1: life and said, quote, golf is great on the taxpayer's dime.
[3:49] Speaker 2: Wait, this is fake.
[3:51] Speaker 1: There's no way that.
[3:53] Speaker 3: SEC employees are in a public golf course and they're
[3:59] Speaker 3: just bragging about Golfing on the taxpayer's dime.
[4:04] Speaker 2: This is... I mean, as soon as I got this
[4:06] Speaker 2: report and saw that line, I kind of went like
[4:09] Speaker 2: this because I was like, that's why I FOIA.
[4:12] Speaker 1: Jason's patting himself on the back.
[4:14] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I FOIA'd for the full report. This
[4:16] Speaker 2: is awesome. Who are these employees? Well, that's a good question.
[4:21] Speaker 2: So the tipster's email identified one employee by his first
[4:25] Speaker 2: name and suggested that this person worked in information technology
[4:31] Speaker 2: or communications at the agency. And then using the SEC's directory,
[4:37] Speaker 2: investigators figured out who it was. Ultimately, they determined that
[4:41] Speaker 2: three SEC employees were involved. an information technology supervisor, his subordinate,
[4:48] Speaker 2: and another employee who worked in the same department. But
[4:51] Speaker 2: the SEC redacted their names from the report. No surprise there, right, Matt?
[4:55] Speaker 1: This is just such a great if you see something,
[4:58] Speaker 1: say something moment. So kudos to you, Tipster, for reporting this.
[5:02] Speaker 2: Good for you.
[5:03] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[5:04] Speaker 2: What happens next, though, is kind of amazing. And the
[5:07] Speaker 2: email sets in motion almost immediately an investigation to find
[5:12] Speaker 2: out if these employees really are golfing during work hours.
[5:16] Speaker 2: So these investigators invested a lot of time and effort
[5:20] Speaker 2: probing the employees' golf outings. just under a year and
[5:24] Speaker 2: a half, from August 2024 to December the following year.
[5:29] Speaker 2: They reviewed employees' time card records, inspected documentation from a
[5:34] Speaker 2: company that handles tea time reservations, and they even conducted
[5:38] Speaker 2: surveillance at the golf course.
[5:41] Speaker 1: Surveillance? Surveillance, Matt. Surveillance, that's awesome. You know what I'm
[5:50] Speaker 1: picturing is in, I think it's the second Caddyshack movie,
[5:53] Speaker 1: Dan Aykroyd has a character who's got like, he's in
[5:57] Speaker 1: the woods and he's got like the tree, like, you know,
[6:02] Speaker 1: branches and leaves stuck to.
[6:03] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
[6:04] Speaker 1: All right.
[6:04] Speaker 2: So let me set the scene. It was six weeks
[6:07] Speaker 2: after the anonymous tip, September 20th, 2024. It was a Friday,
[6:12] Speaker 2: just a regular workday. And investigators took a field trip
[6:17] Speaker 2: to a public 18-hole golf course in Maryland. with camera
[6:21] Speaker 2: in hand. So I'm picturing like an old Chevy Caprice
[6:26] Speaker 2: or Chevy Impala, these like wide collars, collared shirts that
[6:31] Speaker 2: these guys are wearing, real bushy mustaches. And I don't know,
[6:35] Speaker 2: like those Ray-Ban cop glasses.
[6:38] Speaker 1: That's good.
[6:39] Speaker 2: So they go to this golf course and they're ready
[6:42] Speaker 2: to catch a glimpse of these office ditching SEC employees.
[6:47] Speaker 2: And at around 1.15 p.m., It's showtime. I'm reading from
[6:52] Speaker 2: the report here and an SEC employee, we don't know
[6:55] Speaker 2: his name. So just to keep track, let's give him
[6:58] Speaker 2: a fake name. Let's call him Shooter McGavin, like from
[7:01] Speaker 2: Happy Gilmore. Shooter. And so he arrives at the golf
[7:05] Speaker 2: course at that time. And Shooter is an information technology supervisor.
[7:10] Speaker 2: But Shooter wasn't alone. He was with two other SEC employees.
[7:15] Speaker 2: And one was Shooter's subordinate. What should we call these
[7:18] Speaker 2: other two employees, Matt? Give them names.
[7:20] Speaker 1: I think we should go with Hotshot and Ace.
[7:23] Speaker 2: Oh, I like it. Hotshot and Ace, yeah. So they
[7:26] Speaker 2: unloaded their clubs, practiced their putting on the green, and
[7:30] Speaker 2: hit the links around 1.45 p.m. Is this what it
[7:33] Speaker 2: says in the report?
[7:35] Speaker 1: Like, it's at that level of detail? We've watched them
[7:37] Speaker 1: unload their clubs and practice putting and hit the links?
[7:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, it didn't say hit the links. That was me.
[7:42] Speaker 1: I got it.
[7:42] Speaker 2: I'm just giving you a hard time. You know, I'm
[7:44] Speaker 2: going to start wearing a, you know, a glove. But
[7:47] Speaker 2: one sighting wasn't enough for these investigators.
[7:50] Speaker 1: Why was one sighting not enough? Like, oh, they just
[7:54] Speaker 1: did it once.
[7:55] Speaker 2: You know, they had to prove their case.
[7:57] Speaker 1: I get it. I really respect the diligence that they're
[8:00] Speaker 1: doing here.
[8:01] Speaker 2: They're working it. You know, they're working their case. So
[8:04] Speaker 2: about a month later, investigators spent another Friday staking out
[8:09] Speaker 2: the club. And guess what? They see Shooter again. Do
[8:12] Speaker 2: you want to read this one from the report, Matt?
[8:15] Speaker 2: But when you read it, you've got to do it
[8:18] Speaker 2: in a Batman voice. And by the way, it's okay
[8:20] Speaker 2: if you want to do Lego Batman, too. Batman.
[8:23] Speaker 1: I'll do my best. November 1, 2024. Redacted, who we're
[8:28] Speaker 1: calling Shooter, and a non-SEC federal government worker arrived at
[8:32] Speaker 1: approximately 11.57 a.m., practiced on the driving range, and started
[8:36] Speaker 1: golfing at 12.31 p.m. They return their golf cart at
[8:40] Speaker 1: approximately 5 o'clock p.m.
[8:43] Speaker 2: That was good.
[8:44] Speaker 1: Can I just add some commentary here? I will say,
[8:47] Speaker 1: so that's a round of four hours and 29 minutes.
[8:50] Speaker 1: It's a little slow. It's within kind of the zone
[8:53] Speaker 1: of reasonableness. This is a Friday afternoon. Yeah, probably it's
[8:56] Speaker 1: a little bit crowded. Probably a bunch of other people
[8:58] Speaker 1: blowing off work on Friday afternoon, drinking a few beers.
[9:02] Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm not going to ding them for a
[9:04] Speaker 1: four and a half hour round. The goal is really
[9:06] Speaker 1: sub four hours, but.
[9:08] Speaker 2: Keep in mind, golf is great on the taxpayer's dime.
[9:11] Speaker 2: They're not trying to rush through their game, man. But
[9:14] Speaker 2: I just want to take a step back for a
[9:15] Speaker 2: moment here, okay? So you said it, four and a
[9:19] Speaker 2: half hours. But during those four and a half hours,
[9:22] Speaker 2: the SEC investigators spent their entire day, for the most part,
[9:26] Speaker 2: or at least their entire afternoon, watching these guys.
[9:29] Speaker 1: There's food wrappers and empty coffee cups strewn about the
[9:33] Speaker 1: inside of the car.
[9:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a big deal. So a week later, again,
[9:36] Speaker 2: I'm looking at the report, on November 8th, the SEC
[9:40] Speaker 2: authorized a two-hour early dismissal for employees who want to
[9:46] Speaker 2: cut out for the afternoon for Veterans Day, federal holiday.
[9:50] Speaker 2: By then, though, Shooter hotshot an ace and had already
[9:55] Speaker 2: been at the golf club for hours. Investigators observed them
[10:00] Speaker 2: arriving around 10.45 a.m., and they didn't return their golf
[10:04] Speaker 2: cart until 4 p.m. Unbelievable.
[10:07] Speaker 1: So no early dismissal. for the investigators. They had to
[10:11] Speaker 1: keep going.
[10:11] Speaker 2: No, they're on the clock. Everybody's golfing on the weekdays.
[10:16] Speaker 2: Everybody wants a.
[10:18] Speaker 1: Everybody wants to save their personal days because that's what
[10:21] Speaker 1: these guys could have done if they wanted to golf
[10:23] Speaker 1: on a Friday is just use their personal time.
[10:25] Speaker 2: Oh, I like it.
[10:26] Speaker 1: So the investigators have seen three employees golfing three times
[10:30] Speaker 1: in less than two months. How often are they taking
[10:33] Speaker 1: these little... golf outings during office hours.
[10:35] Speaker 2: Okay, this is great. And this is what we know
[10:37] Speaker 2: from the report. So investigators reviewed about three years of
[10:42] Speaker 2: time and attendance records from January 2022 through December of 2024.
[10:47] Speaker 2: And this part is just hilarious. Matt, do you know
[10:52] Speaker 2: what Golf Now is?
[10:54] Speaker 1: I do know what Golf Now is. It is an
[10:56] Speaker 1: app that you can use to find in book tee times.
[11:02] Speaker 1: And it has a commercial with a gopher that is
[11:04] Speaker 1: a pretty obvious play on the gopher from Caddyshack. It's
[11:09] Speaker 1: very widely used for booking tea times.
[11:12] Speaker 2: Full circle. But here's the part that's great. The SEC
[11:15] Speaker 2: investigators obtained tee time records from Shooter's Golf Now account
[11:22] Speaker 2: and from the golf course. Matt, just so you know,
[11:25] Speaker 2: this is a real investigation. This is not like, ah,
[11:29] Speaker 2: you know, we got a couple of employees on the
[11:31] Speaker 2: golf course. I mean, this is serious. This is no joke. Yeah.
[11:36] Speaker 1: You got a FOIA for the subpoena to Golf Now.
[11:38] Speaker 1: I would love to see that.
[11:39] Speaker 2: I mean, I assume that that's how they would have
[11:42] Speaker 2: obtained it. It doesn't explain it in the report.
[11:45] Speaker 1: Oh, Golf Now, I'm sure, fully respects golfer golf app confidentiality.
[11:50] Speaker 1: And in the absence of a subpoena, I would hope
[11:53] Speaker 1: they wouldn't just turn over my very personal golfing records.
[11:56] Speaker 2: Well, I reached out to Golf Now, and a spokesperson
[12:00] Speaker 2: declined to comment. So the investigators compared Shooter's tee times
[12:06] Speaker 2: with his employee time and attendance records and actually made
[12:11] Speaker 2: this pretty cool little chart here. Take a look. And
[12:16] Speaker 2: can you describe what you're looking at? All right.
[12:21] Speaker 1: So I'm looking at a table and it's titled Summary
[12:26] Speaker 1: of Redacted Work Schedule Golf Reservations and Tests. Known golf activity.
[12:33] Speaker 1: I love that. KGA. Known golf activity.
[12:37] Speaker 2: Known golf activity. Yeah.
[12:39] Speaker 1: That's great. All right. One column is date. And then
[12:43] Speaker 1: going down the column, there's, I don't know, maybe 20
[12:46] Speaker 1: rows or so. It's got the dates starting in March 2022,
[12:50] Speaker 1: going through November 2024.
[12:51] Speaker 2: The next is day.
[12:58] Speaker 1: The days are almost all F for Friday, although there
[13:01] Speaker 1: was one Monday. Incredible. Golf Now reservation time. These are
[13:07] Speaker 1: all late morning and into the afternoon. Golf Now reservation location.
[13:12] Speaker 1: They have redacted the.
[13:13] Speaker 2: Oh, come on.
[13:14] Speaker 1: They've redacted the location of the golf courses. I can't
[13:19] Speaker 1: make it out. What's the basis on that?
[13:22] Speaker 2: I mean, of course, it's probably a privacy exception, right?
[13:25] Speaker 2: What are they saying? You're telling us that... If we
[13:29] Speaker 2: figured all this out, what the location is of the
[13:32] Speaker 2: golf course, it will ultimately allow us to figure out
[13:35] Speaker 2: who the employee is, whose identity was redacted.
[13:39] Speaker 1: I'm calling BS on redacting the golf course names. I
[13:43] Speaker 1: guess the theory is if you knew who played on
[13:48] Speaker 1: April 15, 2022 at 11.50 a.m. at some particular golf course,
[13:54] Speaker 1: you'd know who these people are.
[13:56] Speaker 2: I want to know where they're playing. Right, exactly. I
[13:59] Speaker 2: want to know.
[13:59] Speaker 1: So in this last column, the times I got from
[14:01] Speaker 1: the golf course, there's a bunch of times that are
[14:04] Speaker 1: mostly in the afternoons, like as early as like 11.30 a.m.
[14:10] Speaker 1: and as late as 3 o'clock p.m.
[14:13] Speaker 2: What you're looking at is 23 separate times when Shooter
[14:19] Speaker 2: alone made reservations and or played golf on company time.
[14:27] Speaker 2: Or I'm sorry, should I say the taxpayer is done?
[14:32] Speaker 2: So basically between these three employees, they played golf or
[14:36] Speaker 2: made a golf reservation at least a combined 26 times
[14:43] Speaker 2: between March 2022 and November 2024 while on the clock.
[14:50] Speaker 1: So if we do some math here, I mean, I'm
[14:52] Speaker 1: just looking at the dates and they've got As early
[14:55] Speaker 1: in the year as March and as late in the
[14:57] Speaker 1: year as November. So let's call it nine months of
[15:00] Speaker 1: golf weather a year. That's almost once a month for
[15:04] Speaker 1: three seasons straight. Do we know how much these employees
[15:09] Speaker 1: are getting paid?
[15:10] Speaker 2: They're making salaries from at least $ 100, 000 to more than
[15:13] Speaker 2: $ 200, 000 a year.
[15:15] Speaker 1: Wow. Plus they get the perk of playing golf on
[15:18] Speaker 1: the taxpayer dime on a regular basis.
[15:20] Speaker 2: On the taxpayer's dime. At all hours. You know, all seasons.
[15:25] Speaker 2: You know, guess what? November? I kind of assume November
[15:27] Speaker 2: is pretty cold in D.C., but it doesn't matter. You know,
[15:31] Speaker 2: it doesn't matter if, you know, the ground is hard
[15:35] Speaker 2: as a rock, because when it's on the taxpayer's dime,
[15:40] Speaker 2: it is great.
[15:42] Speaker 1: All right, so what happens next?
[15:44] Speaker 2: All right, so now it's time to talk to these employees.
[15:51] Speaker 2: In March 2025... the investigators called Shooter McGavin in for
[15:56] Speaker 2: an interview. It didn't last long. After they explained, quote,
[16:00] Speaker 2: the allegation of golfing during work hours, Shooter said he
[16:05] Speaker 2: wanted a lawyer and the interview immediately ended. And I
[16:09] Speaker 2: have to say- Lawyer's up! Yeah, I have to say respect, right?
[16:14] Speaker 2: Respect to Shooter because he wasn't saying anything. He's clearly
[16:18] Speaker 2: well aware about self-incrimination. So a couple of months later,
[16:24] Speaker 2: Shooter comes back with a lawyer for an interview. And
[16:28] Speaker 2: this is just amazing. So he told investigators that he
[16:33] Speaker 2: was on teams inside of the SEC, these work teams,
[16:37] Speaker 2: that he thought allowed him to, quote, flex his time.
[16:42] Speaker 2: And he explained that he was, quote, always on call
[16:45] Speaker 2: while at the golf course. And so that got me thinking, Matt,
[16:49] Speaker 2: when you're on the golf course, are you always on call? Like,
[16:52] Speaker 2: could I call you and talk about my FOIA cases?
[16:55] Speaker 1: You can always call me anytime, day or night, Monday
[16:59] Speaker 1: through Sunday, and I'm happy to talk to you. Now,
[17:02] Speaker 1: as a matter of etiquette, I'm maybe not going to
[17:04] Speaker 1: take your call on the golf course. Etiquette to the
[17:06] Speaker 1: other golfers. I mean, like, there's nothing more annoying than
[17:09] Speaker 1: you're playing behind some group and it's taken forever because
[17:12] Speaker 1: somebody's like on the phone on the golf course, you know?
[17:15] Speaker 2: And Shooter believes that he's a surgeon, you know, and
[17:18] Speaker 2: it's like, guys, if you need me, you know where
[17:21] Speaker 2: to find me. I'll be on the golf course. He's Dr.
[17:22] Speaker 3: Beeper.
[17:23] Speaker 2: From Caddyshack.
[17:24] Speaker 1: He's Dr.
[17:24] Speaker 2: Beeper.
[17:24] Speaker 1: Oh, just snake a tube down her throat and I'll
[17:27] Speaker 1: be there in four or five hours.
[17:28] Speaker 2: Unreal. But these quotes are great. So I want to
[17:33] Speaker 2: read from the report. I'm going to play the SEC's
[17:35] Speaker 2: OIG investigator, and you be shooter. So, okay, here we go.
[17:39] Speaker 2: You think that being responsive, you're golfing, and then you
[17:43] Speaker 2: can just answer your phone on the course? And that
[17:46] Speaker 2: means you're working?
[17:47] Speaker 1: Well, yeah, dot, dot, dot. It's my personal time in
[17:50] Speaker 1: my mind.
[17:52] Speaker 2: Matt, can you read that again, but do it in
[17:55] Speaker 2: the voice of, what's his name, from Fast Times at
[17:58] Speaker 2: Ridgemont High?
[17:59] Speaker 1: Oh, God.
[18:00] Speaker 2: Sean Penn's character?
[18:01] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[18:02] Speaker 2: Well, yeah.
[18:03] Speaker 1: It's my personal time in my mind. Exactly. If I'm
[18:08] Speaker 1: here and you're here, doesn't that make it our time?
[18:13] Speaker 2: So getting back to it, I'm the OIG investigator. During
[18:19] Speaker 2: core hours, employees are expected to be at their desks working.
[18:24] Speaker 1: I disagree with that.
[18:25] Speaker 2: Let's just stop for a second.
[18:28] Speaker 1: During....
[18:30] Speaker 2: During core hours, employees are expected to be at their
[18:34] Speaker 2: desk working. So not really controversial, right, Matt? Like, you know,
[18:39] Speaker 2: you got a job. You're supposed to be working when you,
[18:43] Speaker 2: you know, during the time that you're at work. And
[18:47] Speaker 2: he's saying, wait, he's saying, I disagree with that. Yeah.
[18:51] Speaker 2: But Shooter explained that while he wasn't required to be
[18:56] Speaker 2: at his computer desk, to do his job or give
[18:59] Speaker 2: his team direction. His subordinates had to be. Wait, hold on,
[19:04] Speaker 2: hold on, hold on.
[19:05] Speaker 1: He's like, listen, it's totally fine for me to be
[19:09] Speaker 1: on a golf course. And I'm an awesome supervisor because
[19:12] Speaker 1: the people who work for me, they're at their desks.
[19:16] Speaker 1: They gotta be at their desks.
[19:17] Speaker 2: That's right.
[19:18] Speaker 1: He thinks he's like an investment banker or like a
[19:21] Speaker 1: partner at a huge law firm or something.
[19:24] Speaker 2: Why should I be at my desk when I got
[19:26] Speaker 2: these guys taking care of everything over there? So next,
[19:31] Speaker 2: the investigators interviewed Shooter's boss, right? And they were shown
[19:36] Speaker 2: surveillance photos of his employee golfing during work hours. And
[19:41] Speaker 2: so Shooter's boss said he never authorized it and was, quote,
[19:45] Speaker 2: shocked and thought the conduct was, quote, blatant.
[19:50] Speaker 1: Well yeah can i ask a clarifying question here yeah
[19:54] Speaker 1: it before you go to the next part so is
[19:57] Speaker 1: shooter he's saying he's working from home these days right
[20:00] Speaker 1: like or does the supervisor just miss that like shooters
[20:03] Speaker 1: like not in the office like a lot of friday afternoons.
[20:06] Speaker 2: It's a good question. I mean, just from looking at
[20:09] Speaker 2: this report, it does mention some kind of remote work.
[20:13] Speaker 2: At that time, many government employees had some kind of
[20:18] Speaker 2: remote work schedule.
[20:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no world in which being on a golf
[20:21] Speaker 1: course counts as being at work. Even if you're taking calls,
[20:26] Speaker 1: even if you're keeping on top of your emails.
[20:28] Speaker 2: Come on. I love how he rationalizes it. So another manager-
[20:36] Speaker 2: who spoke to the SEC investigator, said, this is great.
[20:40] Speaker 2: He said that his– I'm just laughing thinking about it.
[20:44] Speaker 2: So he said his employee, quote, joked about golfing on
[20:50] Speaker 2: the job, but they didn't take it seriously. Or the
[20:55] Speaker 2: employee maybe felt guilty. He's like, ha-ha, I'm golfing right now.
[21:00] Speaker 2: He just couldn't keep it secret but made it come
[21:02] Speaker 2: across as a joke.
[21:04] Speaker 1: Or was he setting himself up later to be like, no, no, no.
[21:08] Speaker 1: My supervisor knew. I told everyone I was golfing on
[21:12] Speaker 1: the job. There's no secrets here. Yeah.
[21:14] Speaker 2: I mean, I imagine that's what must have happened. That
[21:17] Speaker 2: would be the only reason why he joked about golfing
[21:23] Speaker 2: on the job.
[21:24] Speaker 1: I'm picturing just some surly, crusty bureaucrat who's just like,
[21:31] Speaker 1: Like the person at the DMV who's just letting the
[21:35] Speaker 1: lines sit there forever. Like Patty and Selma smoking cigarettes
[21:39] Speaker 1: at the DMV in The Simpsons.
[21:40] Speaker 2: Oh, my God. So as for the guys we're calling
[21:45] Speaker 2: Hotshot and Ace, and to be clear, those are fake names.
[21:49] Speaker 2: Hotshot said he thought he, quote, took leave when he
[21:53] Speaker 2: golfed during work hours. He also said he believed his
[21:57] Speaker 2: flexible schedule allowed him to golf during work hours because
[22:02] Speaker 2: he was on call. So there seems to be kind
[22:05] Speaker 2: of like a little bit of a coordination of stories here. Maybe,
[22:09] Speaker 2: you know, you know, he too was on call. He's
[22:11] Speaker 2: another surgeon, an SEC, you know, surgeon.
[22:16] Speaker 1: And well, I mean, there is a world where I
[22:18] Speaker 1: know some IT people are like, they're not They're not
[22:23] Speaker 1: expected to be working, but they're on call in case
[22:26] Speaker 1: something arises. But I don't– it seems like they're starting
[22:28] Speaker 1: to hint at that, but that's not actually what's happening here.
[22:31] Speaker 1: So what about Ace? What did Ace have to say?
[22:35] Speaker 2: Okay. So Ace said the same thing during his interview
[22:40] Speaker 2: and added– again, the same thing. But he added that
[22:46] Speaker 2: he worked extra hours to make up for any time.
[22:50] Speaker 2: He missed when he was supposed to be working.
[22:53] Speaker 1: Which I'm guessing SEC employment policies do not allow you
[22:58] Speaker 1: to do that.
[22:59] Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's like, oh, man, I just spent 12
[23:02] Speaker 2: hours on the golf course. So I'll just work, you know,
[23:05] Speaker 2: 12 extra hours or whatever he did. This is like amazing.
[23:13] Speaker 2: You know, and it's just incredible that. One, that they
[23:19] Speaker 2: were golfing for as long as they were, that the
[23:23] Speaker 2: SEC found out about this through an anonymous tip, and
[23:29] Speaker 2: it kind of just unraveled until we get to the
[23:35] Speaker 2: point in the interviews where they're admitting that they were
[23:40] Speaker 2: doing it, more or less, but they were rationalizing.
[23:44] Speaker 1: And amazing to me is if they just kept their
[23:46] Speaker 1: mouth shut, not mouthed off about it in a public
[23:49] Speaker 1: golf course, they would still be getting away with this, apparently.
[23:53] Speaker 2: Right? Yeah.
[23:54] Speaker 1: We only know this because they went to a golf
[23:57] Speaker 1: course and said, it's SEC life. It's great playing golf
[24:02] Speaker 1: on the taxpayer's dime. And then somebody rats them out.
[24:06] Speaker 2: Somebody heard it. But let's be clear. If I heard
[24:10] Speaker 2: or if you heard Well, I'm a reporter, so I
[24:14] Speaker 2: would be investigating it and writing a story.
[24:17] Speaker 1: You'd be the one staking them out with a long
[24:21] Speaker 1: scope camera.
[24:23] Speaker 2: Yeah, in my Chevy Impala. But, you know, if you're
[24:30] Speaker 2: a government employee and you're saying golf is great on
[24:34] Speaker 2: the taxpayer's dime and somebody overhears it, yeah, you know,
[24:38] Speaker 2: they're trying to, I mean, they're figuring out, you know, God,
[24:43] Speaker 2: this is not cool. This is not okay. Hubris.
[24:47] Speaker 1: All right. So how did the inspector general in the
[24:49] Speaker 1: SEC handle these findings, Jason?
[24:52] Speaker 2: Well, they submitted this report and their findings to the U.S.
[24:57] Speaker 2: Attorney's Office in Washington last year. Yeah.
[25:00] Speaker 1: Wow.
[25:01] Speaker 2: Wow. Okay. Prosecutors declined to pursue charges. And the IG
[25:06] Speaker 2: then referred its findings to the SEC. And that brings
[25:09] Speaker 2: us back to the announcement, you know, I saw on
[25:12] Speaker 2: the SEC's website earlier this year. And it said that
[25:15] Speaker 2: the supervisor, who again, we're calling shooter, agreed to resign
[25:20] Speaker 2: after the investigation. And the other two employees received three-day
[25:25] Speaker 2: work suspensions. Three-day work. work suspension.
[25:28] Speaker 1: Do you think they spent those days on a golf course?
[25:30] Speaker 1: They're laughing, right?
[25:31] Speaker 2: I'm just wondering if it was like this golf course
[25:33] Speaker 2: in Maryland, or if they just like went, you know,
[25:36] Speaker 2: to a private, you know, golf course. I will say,
[25:38] Speaker 2: you don't typically see a whole lot of government.
[25:40] Speaker 1: Employees with private golf club memberships.
[25:42] Speaker 2: Yeah. But this is great. So, you know, as I mentioned,
[25:46] Speaker 2: there was another federal government employee, you know, that the
[25:51] Speaker 2: SEC report said was, who was photographed at the golf course.
[25:55] Speaker 2: And the IG report says that that it informed that
[26:00] Speaker 2: agency's IG about this, you know, government employee. Oh, have
[26:05] Speaker 2: you chased that down yet? I have not started, but
[26:09] Speaker 2: obviously I'm going to have to FOIA more agencies for,
[26:14] Speaker 2: more IG offices for agency reports about golf.
[26:19] Speaker 1: Did they have to pay back the time that they
[26:23] Speaker 1: essentially stole the It doesn't seem like it, right?
[26:27] Speaker 2: It doesn't say that they did.
[26:29] Speaker 1: So it sounds like they kind of came out ahead.
[26:31] Speaker 2: That's it.
[26:31] Speaker 1: And some employers, like your unused personal and vacation time,
[26:34] Speaker 1: which is what they should have been using if they
[26:36] Speaker 1: wanted to play golf on a Friday afternoon. And hey,
[26:39] Speaker 1: if their schedule allows them to do it, like just
[26:42] Speaker 1: use your time. But some employers, they'll get paid that
[26:45] Speaker 1: time when they leave. So I get some unanswered questions here.
[26:51] Speaker 2: Like I said, this report did not disappoint. Any final thoughts?
[26:56] Speaker 1: It's all in the hips, Jason. It's all in the hips.
[27:03] Speaker 2: From Bloomberg and No Smiling, this is Disclosure. The show
[27:07] Speaker 2: is hosted by Matt Topic and me, Jason Leopold. It's
[27:10] Speaker 2: produced by Heather Schroering and Sean Cannon for No Smiling
[27:14] Speaker 2: with additional support from Callum Foote. Our editor for Bloomberg
[27:18] Speaker 2: is Jeff Grokot. Our executive producers for Bloomberg are Nicole
[27:23] Speaker 2: Beamster-Bohr Cheryl Brumley, and me, Jason Leopold. And our executive
[27:29] Speaker 2: producers for No Smiling are Sean Cannon, Heather Schroering, and
[27:33] Speaker 2: Matt Toppin. The Disclosure theme song is by Nick, with
[27:37] Speaker 2: additional music by Nick and Epidemic Sound. Sound design and
[27:41] Speaker 2: mixing is by Sean Cannon. Video production is by Drew Brown.
[27:46] Speaker 2: Fact-checking is by Mick Swasko. For more transparency news and
[27:50] Speaker 2: important document dumps, you can subscribe to my weekly FOIA
[27:53] Speaker 2: Files newsletter at bloomberg.com slash FOIA Files. That's F-O-I-A Files.
[28:01] Speaker 2: We'll see you next week. SEC Information Technology Supervate. SEC
[28:11] Speaker 2: Information Technology Supervate.

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