# Hamlet, James Bond and SNL UK: Riz Ahmed on Reinventing Cultural Icons

An episode of [The Mishal Husain Show](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1845840408), 17 Apr 2026, 39 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/tracking.swap.fm/track/UVBrz8bN8aM2Xe47PEPu/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/d4afad24-707c-42c5-afc3-b36200ef6fe2/24796724-49e9-455f-a28d-b42e008f63cb/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=16eda0d4-f4e8-48ea-8fbb-b36200ef73d1

A new and radical take on Shakespeare’s Hamlet is out in US cinemas. The force behind it is actor, writer, producer and musician Riz Ahmed. He says the 400-year-old story has never felt more current. Ahmed, Oscar-nominated for Sound of Metal and star of the Oscar-winning live-action short The Long Goodbye, has a new series on Prime Video called Bait. It’s a black comedy about an actor on the cusp of a life-changing role as James Bond. In this conversation with Mishal Husain, Ahmed talks about creativity and politics, discusses his upcoming movie with Tom Cruise and how becoming a father affected his acting. Read this interview with Mishal’s notes on Bloomberg Weekend: www.bloomberg.com/latest/weekend-interview 02:32 - Hamlet “never goes out of fashion" 03:39 - “The old order is falling apart” 05:00 - “Is it the world that’s gone crazy or is it me?” 07:50 - The dream of playing Hamlet 09:51 - To be, or not to be is “misunderstood” 13:40 - “It's authentic. I'm not acting” 17:00 - Bait “it’s a very personal show” 17:24 - Why Barbara Broccoli said yes to using Bond 21:43 - Looking for acceptance 22:34 - “Culture works in cycles” 25:04 - Acting was an extension of real life 28:20 - “I don’t like being pinned down” 28:42 - SNL UK 30:01 - Working with Tom Cruise 32:21 - “My weekends are really simple” Contact The Mishal Husain Show mishalshow@bloomberg.net Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, Radio News.
[0:08] Speaker 2: To me or not to be?
[0:09] Speaker 3: That is the question whether it is nobler in mind
[0:11] Speaker 3: to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. Do
[0:14] Speaker 3: you keep your head down and just take it, or
[0:16] Speaker 3: to take arms against a sea of troubles and by
[0:20] Speaker 3: opposing end then it's a far more confronting and radical
[0:24] Speaker 3: speech than we've been taught.
[0:26] Speaker 1: Ris Armored, actor writer Oscar Winner on his latest film Hamlet.
[0:32] Speaker 3: We're all greaving this solution that the world was had
[0:35] Speaker 3: some semblance of fairness and justice.
[0:38] Speaker 1: Because of what's happening in the news, because of.
[0:40] Speaker 3: What's happening in the world, it does feel like the
[0:42] Speaker 3: old order is falling apart. We did in a world
[0:44] Speaker 3: where people in public office would conduct themselves in a
[0:47] Speaker 3: certain way, where there was accountability.
[0:48] Speaker 2: These things are crumbling.
[0:51] Speaker 1: From Bloomberg Weekend. This is the Michelle Hussein Show. I'm
[0:56] Speaker 1: Michelle Hussein. Shakespeare's Hamlet is more than four hundred years old,
[1:06] Speaker 1: a play containing some of the most famous lines ever
[1:09] Speaker 1: written in the English language. How does it speak to
[1:13] Speaker 1: us today? There is a new and radical take that
[1:18] Speaker 1: has come from the actor, writer and producer Riz armed
[1:22] Speaker 1: someone who in recent years has combined the more art
[1:26] Speaker 1: house project with the big budget world. He was Oscar
[1:30] Speaker 1: nominated for Sound of Metal, a film I loved. He
[1:33] Speaker 1: was in the Star Wars prequel Rogue one, and has
[1:36] Speaker 1: a new film with Tom Cruise coming up. Aside from Hamlet,
[1:41] Speaker 1: his other current production is a series on Prime Video
[1:44] Speaker 1: called Bait, a black comedy about an actor on the
[1:48] Speaker 1: cusp of a life changing role as James Bond. But
[1:52] Speaker 1: Riz Armed has long been interesting beyond his on screen work.
[1:57] Speaker 1: It's nearly ten years since he delivered a sp each
[2:00] Speaker 1: in the UK Parliament about race and access to the arts,
[2:05] Speaker 1: and he's written about his experience as a Muslim with
[2:08] Speaker 1: British intelligence, US immigration and airport's security. In this conversation
[2:15] Speaker 1: we talk about creativity, politics, family life, he recently became
[2:20] Speaker 1: a father, and first about Hamlet, playing a part he
[2:25] Speaker 1: dreamt of since his teens and a plot that he
[2:28] Speaker 1: believes is evergreen.
[2:32] Speaker 3: I think the thing with a timeless story like Hamlet
[2:35] Speaker 3: is that it always feels timely, It never goes out
[2:39] Speaker 3: of fashion right. It's about family and love and loyalty
[2:42] Speaker 3: and loss and how do you do the right thing?
[2:45] Speaker 3: These these are timeless themes, they will always feel relevant,
[2:48] Speaker 3: but I can't help but feel that it's actually.
[2:51] Speaker 2: More relevant now than ever.
[2:53] Speaker 3: I think there's actually a reason why it's bubbling up
[2:55] Speaker 3: in a collective kind of unconscious Actually at the moment,
[2:58] Speaker 3: you know, you've had our film Hamlet, you've had Hamnet
[3:02] Speaker 3: Out as well, and you've also had Grand Theft Hamlet.
[3:05] Speaker 3: I don't know if you're where this Grand Theft Auto
[3:07] Speaker 3: meets Hamlet. It's it's the play staged in the in
[3:10] Speaker 3: the video game world. I think the reason why we're
[3:12] Speaker 3: turning to this story right now is because it's a
[3:14] Speaker 3: Hamlet is a character I think is going through a
[3:16] Speaker 3: version of what we all are at the moment. He's
[3:20] Speaker 3: grieving the illusion that the world was a fair place,
[3:24] Speaker 3: you know, that's really what's happening. He's grieving the loss
[3:26] Speaker 3: of his father. Yes, but his father represented a certain
[3:29] Speaker 3: way of doing things, perhaps flawed, but you know, not
[3:31] Speaker 3: as shamelessly unjust, not as brazenly kind of corrupt as
[3:36] Speaker 3: the regime that his kind of uncle sets up.
[3:39] Speaker 2: And so I think we're we're.
[3:40] Speaker 3: All grieving this, this illusion that the world was had
[3:43] Speaker 3: some semblance of fairness.
[3:46] Speaker 1: Because of what's happening in the news because.
[3:48] Speaker 3: Of what's happening in the in the world. Yea, absolutely,
[3:50] Speaker 3: it does feel like the old order is falling apart,
[3:52] Speaker 3: doesn't it. You know, we did in a world where
[3:55] Speaker 3: you know, you just didn't do certain things, you didn't
[3:57] Speaker 3: say certain things, where people in public office were conduct
[4:00] Speaker 3: themselves in a certain way, where there was accountability. You know,
[4:03] Speaker 3: we came off the back of the Second World War
[4:05] Speaker 3: setting up international systems, multilateral organizations. These things are crumbling.
[4:09] Speaker 3: And so yes, that's bring it to the micro specificity
[4:12] Speaker 3: of the news cycle. But to bring it back to
[4:14] Speaker 3: the emotional level, which is where I hope my work
[4:17] Speaker 3: kind of operates. I think we're all feeling a sense
[4:19] Speaker 3: of shock and grief and loss, you know that the
[4:22] Speaker 3: world was a fair place. And actually, to take the
[4:25] Speaker 3: kind of parallels further, just like Hamlet, we're actually being
[4:28] Speaker 3: gas lit about it. We're actually being told that there's
[4:31] Speaker 3: nothing wrong, this business as usual and how things should be.
[4:33] Speaker 1: A new normal.
[4:34] Speaker 3: Yeah, when we're feeling powerless in the face of it.
[4:36] Speaker 3: And actually, ultimately Hamlet really realizes, like I think many
[4:40] Speaker 3: of us are, that we're complicit in it.
[4:41] Speaker 2: We're complicit in the new regime of injustice.
[4:44] Speaker 3: We're feeding the fire and the algorithmic fuel, you know,
[4:48] Speaker 3: of outrage that seems to be kind of characterizing our politics.
[4:52] Speaker 1: Well. In Hamlet's case, he's driven mad by the wrongs
[4:55] Speaker 1: that he sees around him. It understandably absolutely consume.
[5:00] Speaker 3: I always think one of the central questions of the
[5:02] Speaker 3: player is is it the world that's gone crazy?
[5:05] Speaker 2: Or is it me?
[5:07] Speaker 3: You know, that's certainly how I think we're all feeling
[5:11] Speaker 3: at the moment. You know, it feels like we're living
[5:13] Speaker 3: in a very unstable time, just as Hamlet was. And
[5:15] Speaker 3: actually I think there's some solid we can gain from
[5:17] Speaker 3: turning to these you know, canonical stories at this time,
[5:21] Speaker 3: realizing actually we've been through this before. You know, we're
[5:24] Speaker 3: not the first people to feel this way. There's an
[5:26] Speaker 3: element of hope, I think, and we can feel a
[5:28] Speaker 3: little less alone in that grief.
[5:30] Speaker 1: You've been thinking about doing Hamlet for a long time,
[5:34] Speaker 1: I think.
[5:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
[5:36] Speaker 3: I first had the idea very precociously when I was
[5:38] Speaker 3: about seventeen, and the reason is I got a government
[5:42] Speaker 3: assistant place to a private school where I felt very
[5:44] Speaker 3: much like an outsider for many different reasons. And I
[5:47] Speaker 3: had an inspirational English teacher called mister rose Blade. He
[5:50] Speaker 3: took me under his wing. He was a white, middle
[5:53] Speaker 3: aged Jewish guy from Wolverhampton, seemingly nothing in common but
[5:57] Speaker 3: if he spoke fluent Punjab be and he just had
[6:02] Speaker 3: this kind of connection to me and other boys who
[6:04] Speaker 3: felt like outsiders in that institution.
[6:06] Speaker 1: Because there were very few brown kids.
[6:08] Speaker 3: And I think it was a class thing. I think
[6:10] Speaker 3: it was also just something about my personality. I think
[6:14] Speaker 3: in retrospect I realized that was probably very add and
[6:17] Speaker 3: I just had to kind of push back and didn't
[6:20] Speaker 3: do very well with rules, so I was always getting
[6:22] Speaker 3: into trouble. And he gave me this play and said,
[6:25] Speaker 3: I do you think Shakespeare is everything you're on that
[6:27] Speaker 3: outside of you know, there's this stuffy establishment kind of cannon.
[6:31] Speaker 3: But actually this character in the heart of this play,
[6:33] Speaker 3: the most famous, revered play in British culture, he feels
[6:37] Speaker 3: like an outsider as well, so much so he doesn't
[6:39] Speaker 3: even want to be in this play. He you know,
[6:41] Speaker 3: he's stuck in a revenge tragedy and he's not sure
[6:43] Speaker 3: he wants to take revenge. And so he gave me
[6:45] Speaker 3: this play and in it, I found myself like so
[6:48] Speaker 3: many people have before and since, and more than just
[6:52] Speaker 3: the kind of emotional similarities to how I was feeling
[6:54] Speaker 3: as a teenager, I found something I really didn't expect,
[6:58] Speaker 3: which is I found massive parallels with my own lived
[7:01] Speaker 3: experience as a British Asian. And it was really a
[7:05] Speaker 3: mind blowing to me to see that, Hang on a minute.
[7:08] Speaker 3: This is a story where it's about who you can
[7:10] Speaker 3: and can't marry, It's about everyone squabbling over the family business.
[7:14] Speaker 3: It's where ghosts and spirituality are part of your lived experience.
[7:19] Speaker 3: And there's even a kind of tradition in Jewish culture
[7:23] Speaker 3: and in South Asian culture that is a central part
[7:27] Speaker 3: of the story, which is if your brother dies and
[7:29] Speaker 3: you yourself are unmarried, you may end up marrying your
[7:32] Speaker 3: sister in law. It's a way of protecting the orphans.
[7:35] Speaker 3: And so all of these elements made me think, wow, actually,
[7:38] Speaker 3: this this story is for me, and I'm not on
[7:40] Speaker 3: the outside of this. It really reframed for me who
[7:44] Speaker 3: can be in the stories at the heart of our
[7:46] Speaker 3: culture and who those stories belong to. And so back then,
[7:51] Speaker 3: as a seventeen year old, I had this kind of
[7:54] Speaker 3: dream of trying to democratize this play and you know,
[7:57] Speaker 3: kind of crack it open for a wider audience.
[8:00] Speaker 1: But in some ways you've made parts of it more
[8:03] Speaker 1: elusive to some audiences in that there are parts of
[8:06] Speaker 1: the dialogue and entire speeches which at times are in Hindi,
[8:09] Speaker 1: so sometimes the English speaker is struggling to access some
[8:12] Speaker 1: bits of it. So I think you both democratized it,
[8:14] Speaker 1: and you've in setting it within a British Asian family,
[8:18] Speaker 1: you've introduced a different dimension.
[8:21] Speaker 3: I wouldn't say it obscures it from me personally. The
[8:24] Speaker 3: feedback I've had is that non Hindi speakers absolutely adore
[8:27] Speaker 3: the speeches that we've kind of translated into Hindi because
[8:30] Speaker 3: I think what people connect to more than their similarity
[8:34] Speaker 3: to their experience is specificity. You know, if something feels authentic,
[8:38] Speaker 3: if something feels specific enough, that's what pulls people in
[8:43] Speaker 3: and then they're able to find themselves in it. So, yes,
[8:45] Speaker 3: basing it in a Hindu family on the outskirts of
[8:48] Speaker 3: northwest London, a property empire rather than a Danish kingdom,
[8:52] Speaker 3: it makes it more specific. But actually what I find
[8:55] Speaker 3: is it actually makes it more real, renders it more
[8:58] Speaker 3: vivid and more grounded. And you know, the most gratifying
[9:01] Speaker 3: thing for me has been hearing people say, you know,
[9:03] Speaker 3: I always felt Shakespeare wasn't for me, and I never
[9:05] Speaker 3: really understood it. This is the first time I've understood it.
[9:08] Speaker 3: This is the first time it's felt real and tangible.
[9:11] Speaker 3: And I think specificity does that rather than distancing audiences
[9:16] Speaker 3: through points of difference, it pulls them in through kind
[9:18] Speaker 3: of authenticity.
[9:19] Speaker 1: And by being Hamlet, you get to say some of
[9:23] Speaker 1: the most famous lines in the English language to be
[9:26] Speaker 1: or not to be speed.
[9:28] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really fascinating, isn't it, Because even people who
[9:31] Speaker 3: don't know about or care for Shakespeare, they know those words.
[9:34] Speaker 3: They're probably the most famous words ever written in any
[9:37] Speaker 3: language ever. You know, the play itself has been performed
[9:40] Speaker 3: continuously since it was written somewhere around the world.
[9:44] Speaker 1: It's seen on stage in the Hamlet film.
[9:46] Speaker 3: Exactly, It's never stopped being performed. And so, but what
[9:51] Speaker 3: I found really fascinating is when I started talking to
[9:54] Speaker 3: my drama school teacher, Rob Claire about this, is that
[9:58] Speaker 3: I think that speech is massively misunderstood. You know, we
[10:02] Speaker 3: think that to be or not to be that is
[10:04] Speaker 3: the question. Is a speech about suicide? Probably speaking right.
[10:08] Speaker 3: If Hamiley takes the stage, he's pointing a dagger at
[10:10] Speaker 3: himself or whatever it may be. But actually, if anything,
[10:14] Speaker 3: you should be pointing the dagger outwards. It's a far
[10:16] Speaker 3: more confronting and radical speech then we've been taught, and
[10:21] Speaker 3: then it is traditionally performed. It's actually a speech about resistance.
[10:27] Speaker 3: It's a speech about do I have the courage to
[10:32] Speaker 3: fight back against injustice and oppression, even if it means
[10:36] Speaker 3: I might lose everything, I might lose my life.
[10:38] Speaker 1: Hence the slings and arrows about rageous fortune and the
[10:42] Speaker 1: call to arms in a sea of troubles.
[10:44] Speaker 3: That's exactly that. The active verb there is take arms
[10:48] Speaker 3: you know, to me or not to be? That is
[10:49] Speaker 3: the question, staying out the context, whether it's is nobody
[10:52] Speaker 3: in mind to suffer the slings and arrows about rageous fortune?
[10:55] Speaker 3: Do you keep your head down and just take it?
[10:57] Speaker 3: Or to take arms against a sea of troubles and
[11:02] Speaker 3: by opposing end them. Now, what happens when you oppose
[11:05] Speaker 3: a sea? It drowns you. So we're saying, is I
[11:08] Speaker 3: can fight back, but I know this will only end
[11:10] Speaker 3: one way with my death. I mean, that's a that's
[11:14] Speaker 3: a really radical question, that's a and so the way
[11:17] Speaker 3: that we tried to film it and stage it was
[11:20] Speaker 3: I hope as radicals as those words kind of invite
[11:23] Speaker 3: us to imagine to be.
[11:27] Speaker 1: Or not to be. Yeah, is the question.
[11:35] Speaker 2: Whether it's nobler in the mind to.
[11:37] Speaker 3: Suffer sings and arrows of outrageous fortune or to take
[11:42] Speaker 3: arms against the sea of troubles. You know, Hamlet is
[11:45] Speaker 3: driving down the motorway one hundred miles an hour in
[11:47] Speaker 3: a BMW.
[11:48] Speaker 2: We're in the sleep of death.
[11:49] Speaker 3: What dreams where we have shoveled off this mortal coil
[11:52] Speaker 3: must give us pause towards a massive lorry. You know,
[11:57] Speaker 3: if the speech itself is a game of chicken, when
[11:59] Speaker 3: he has daring himself to go to the edge, then
[12:02] Speaker 3: that's how we wanted to film it. And I hope
[12:08] Speaker 3: that it invites people to re imagine and revive the
[12:12] Speaker 3: kind of kind of radical dna of this play.
[12:15] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a very striking way to do it, because
[12:17] Speaker 1: as I started watching the film, in the back of
[12:19] Speaker 1: my mind somewhere was how are they going to do
[12:22] Speaker 1: to be or not to be?
[12:23] Speaker 2: Speech?
[12:23] Speaker 1: Because you know, it's coming, and the way you did
[12:26] Speaker 1: it really took my breath away. But if you've been
[12:29] Speaker 1: thinking about the play and Hamlet for such a long time,
[12:32] Speaker 1: had you been had you been thinking about the way
[12:35] Speaker 1: that you might play this?
[12:36] Speaker 3: You know?
[12:36] Speaker 1: Was it were these words that you you said in
[12:40] Speaker 1: front of the bathroom mirror or anywhere else.
[12:43] Speaker 2: You know, it's so funny. It's like, what is it saying?
[12:45] Speaker 3: Is like, we make plans and God laughs, right, And
[12:48] Speaker 3: it's actually one of my favorite lines in Hamlet is
[12:52] Speaker 3: there's a divinity that shapes our ends rough hue them
[12:55] Speaker 3: how we will right, You can make all the plans
[12:58] Speaker 3: you want. And I had all these thoughts and ideas,
[13:01] Speaker 3: you know, going back for all these years about how
[13:03] Speaker 3: I might want to do this. When it got down
[13:05] Speaker 3: to it, particularly when you're making a film, like when
[13:08] Speaker 3: you're undertaking any kind of big collaborative project, it has
[13:11] Speaker 3: its own momentum, It has its own parameters, its own limitations.
[13:15] Speaker 2: Part of, you know, the pace.
[13:18] Speaker 3: And the energy with which we perform to be or
[13:19] Speaker 3: not to be was dictated by the fact that we
[13:21] Speaker 3: can only find a certain stretch of motorway in which
[13:24] Speaker 3: you're film it. You run time historically, if you watch
[13:27] Speaker 3: that speech in most films, sometimes it's done in voiceover,
[13:30] Speaker 3: so it's a bit quicker, but it's about five minutes.
[13:33] Speaker 3: It was like, okay, you've got two minutes and forty
[13:35] Speaker 3: seconds to do to be or not to be. So
[13:38] Speaker 3: that's my hands, right, it's out of my hands. And actually,
[13:40] Speaker 3: what I find as an actor is the fewer decisions
[13:43] Speaker 3: I am making, the more that I am responding to
[13:46] Speaker 3: things out of my control, the better because it's authentic.
[13:49] Speaker 3: I'm not acting, I'm reacting. And I think that the
[13:52] Speaker 3: best things happen in life when there's an element of surrender,
[13:55] Speaker 3: you know, when we're forced to kind of resort to
[13:57] Speaker 3: instinct rather than planning. I'll give you another example. You know,
[14:00] Speaker 3: I've been hoping to play this role for the decades,
[14:02] Speaker 3: you know, probably twenty five years. If you go back
[14:04] Speaker 3: to when I was seventeen, and what I didn't account
[14:08] Speaker 3: for is that I would I would have just had
[14:10] Speaker 3: a baby, my wife would have just given birth, we
[14:13] Speaker 3: had a newborn.
[14:14] Speaker 2: I was not sleeping at all.
[14:17] Speaker 3: So after years of kind of build up an anticipation,
[14:20] Speaker 3: I'm going to perform these timeless speeches on one, two,
[14:24] Speaker 3: three hours of sleep. I shouldn't complain about it because
[14:26] Speaker 3: every time I do, my wife tells me to, you know,
[14:27] Speaker 3: watch it. You know, it was much wors for but Anil,
[14:30] Speaker 3: the director, his kid was going through a sleep regression too,
[14:34] Speaker 3: so he had this kind of ongoing joke, we'd turn
[14:37] Speaker 3: up right, how long last night?
[14:39] Speaker 2: In two hours? One hours?
[14:40] Speaker 1: Ah?
[14:40] Speaker 3: I went and actually that brought a kind of frazzled
[14:45] Speaker 3: vulnerability and kind of and unraveling that was I wasn't acting,
[14:51] Speaker 3: you know, you could see that on the screen.
[14:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, And a lot of it is filmed in real
[14:55] Speaker 1: close up, so you know that. You know, the camera
[14:58] Speaker 1: doesn't miss any of that obviously or right, but it
[15:00] Speaker 1: tells you what tells us what's going on behind the scenes.
[15:03] Speaker 1: So the actual motorway driving scene, how many takes? You're
[15:08] Speaker 1: also doing that, so you're driving.
[15:09] Speaker 2: Kings a ton.
[15:10] Speaker 3: We didn't get a ton of takes on that because
[15:12] Speaker 3: it was about finding a very particular stretch of motorway
[15:16] Speaker 3: that we could control and all this kind of stuff
[15:19] Speaker 3: with the stunt vehicles, etc. You know, I think it's
[15:22] Speaker 3: something interesting about that. I remember when I was doing
[15:24] Speaker 3: Sound of Metal as well, we only got a couple
[15:27] Speaker 3: of takes of that big drumming sequence at the start
[15:30] Speaker 3: of the film.
[15:30] Speaker 1: I love that film. By the way, you were Oscar
[15:32] Speaker 1: nominated for it. It's about the drama who loses his hearing.
[15:35] Speaker 3: Right. Yes, well, I'm glad you connected with it. I
[15:38] Speaker 3: think there can be something magical about embracing the imperfections
[15:42] Speaker 3: of like spontaneity. I'm trying to do it more and more,
[15:45] Speaker 3: trying to surrender to the authenticity of the moment instead
[15:48] Speaker 3: of trying to endlessly revise things with this kind of
[15:51] Speaker 3: perfectionist obsession I used to have. And maybe something about
[15:55] Speaker 3: fatherhood teaches you that surrender. But I remember we did
[15:58] Speaker 3: Sound a Metal you know, I'm rehearsing for that for
[16:01] Speaker 3: eight months. I didn't know how to play the drums,
[16:02] Speaker 3: and we ended up having two takes of that. You
[16:05] Speaker 3: just got to embrace it. I think it just kind
[16:07] Speaker 3: of like pushes you to focus. So Yeah, as much
[16:10] Speaker 3: as I might kind of kind of moan about those limitations,
[16:13] Speaker 3: I think often in the end I'm grateful for them.
[16:16] Speaker 1: Your other new project at the moment of the TV
[16:19] Speaker 1: series Bait, which is on Amazon Prime. I mean interestingly,
[16:23] Speaker 1: because we've been talking about Hamlet a great iconic character
[16:26] Speaker 1: that also has a great iconic character as part of
[16:30] Speaker 1: the storyline. My god, Sharp, are you going to be
[16:32] Speaker 1: the next Checks Bond? What?
[16:36] Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess I'm interested in stepping into the cannon,
[16:39] Speaker 3: stepping into these archetypes and subverting them and complicating them,
[16:43] Speaker 3: and if anything, just adding vulnerability to them. Often these
[16:47] Speaker 3: characters become kind of archetypes and suits of armor, you know,
[16:50] Speaker 3: the Bond in the case of or Hamlet or whatever
[16:54] Speaker 3: it is. And actually, what I'm really interested in is like,
[16:57] Speaker 3: how can we humanize them with vulnerability?
[17:00] Speaker 1: You know.
[17:00] Speaker 3: It's interesting when we first had the idea of kind
[17:03] Speaker 3: of tying together all the personal themes of Bait and
[17:06] Speaker 3: then he is a very personal show, we had the
[17:09] Speaker 3: idea of putting that all into the vessel of James Bond.
[17:11] Speaker 3: Everyone said, there's no way you're going to be able
[17:13] Speaker 3: to do it. Just an audition, James Bond, Man, I
[17:18] Speaker 3: should you listen? It's an audition, so follow from today's audition.
[17:20] Speaker 3: That's what Bond is white. But it was to Barbara
[17:25] Speaker 3: Broccoly's credit. We sat down with her shoulder scripts explained
[17:29] Speaker 3: to her and I think she saw as well. Actually
[17:30] Speaker 3: the show is not about James Bond. It's about, I
[17:34] Speaker 3: think a feeling that a lot of us can relate
[17:36] Speaker 3: to that life sometimes feels like one big audition, you know,
[17:41] Speaker 3: and so we wanted to tell a story about someone
[17:42] Speaker 3: auditioning to be James Bond because we all, I think
[17:46] Speaker 3: now is social media and LinkedIn and zoom calls, always
[17:49] Speaker 3: performing and more put together version of ourselves than we
[17:52] Speaker 3: actually and.
[17:53] Speaker 1: The actors on the brink of something incredible, so huge
[17:56] Speaker 1: role is within his grasp and then his life starts
[17:58] Speaker 1: to fall apart. But the Barbara Broccoli is that because
[18:01] Speaker 1: you needed her permission, or at least you needed a
[18:03] Speaker 1: lot to sue you.
[18:04] Speaker 3: Yeah, we needed her permission. She's never done this before.
[18:06] Speaker 3: It's it's not been done, you know, She's never given
[18:08] Speaker 3: up the bond ip for someone to kind of make
[18:11] Speaker 3: a surreal satirical or TV comedy, you know, within that playground.
[18:16] Speaker 3: I think it's to her credit and also credit our
[18:19] Speaker 3: incredible writers room. You know. We had people in that
[18:22] Speaker 3: room from from the Bear and Yellow Jackets and industry,
[18:26] Speaker 3: and people would work with the comedian hausse Minaj and
[18:28] Speaker 3: my wife who's a novelist, and yeah, brain's much bigger
[18:32] Speaker 3: than mine, and we all just kind of tried to
[18:34] Speaker 3: just find a way of you're trying to just try
[18:38] Speaker 3: to thread this this tonal kind of fusion we were
[18:42] Speaker 3: going for, you know.
[18:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, and the actor is also you know, part of
[18:45] Speaker 1: a British Asian family, so you know your own heritage
[18:47] Speaker 1: is reflected in it. You said it was personal before,
[18:50] Speaker 1: and I wondered how personal that the you know, the
[18:53] Speaker 1: actor looking for the big breakthrough role, Like, how much
[18:58] Speaker 1: of yourself did you bring to it?
[18:59] Speaker 3: I mean so much, and again not so much because
[19:02] Speaker 3: I wanted to be a therapy session or to feel
[19:05] Speaker 3: soleimpsistic in that way. I just wanted to kind of
[19:07] Speaker 3: be as authentic as possible, because I think that's how
[19:09] Speaker 3: people end up.
[19:10] Speaker 2: Relating to things ironically. I mean, where to begin.
[19:14] Speaker 3: I mean an episode one, my character has a panic
[19:17] Speaker 3: attack in a music venue in London, the Kentish Town Forum.
[19:21] Speaker 3: I had a panic attack in that exact venue. I
[19:24] Speaker 3: burst out of those side fire escape doors into that
[19:27] Speaker 3: same alleyway where we recreated that scene. My character gets
[19:30] Speaker 3: jumped and attacked as a you know, preteen a kind
[19:35] Speaker 3: of railway overpass in a park in Wembley, that exact
[19:38] Speaker 3: thing happened to me, or a version of it in
[19:41] Speaker 3: that on that staircase in that park in Wembley.
[19:44] Speaker 2: You know, my.
[19:45] Speaker 3: Character is approached by the security services, you know, after
[19:49] Speaker 3: becoming a bit more well known as an actor, and
[19:50] Speaker 3: they say, hey, do you want to come and work
[19:51] Speaker 3: with us? Literally, that's happened to me several times, you know,
[19:54] Speaker 3: since I've started my career. You know, it goes on
[19:57] Speaker 3: and on and on, and I just kind of, honestly,
[20:00] Speaker 3: it was quite scary. It felt quite vulnerable to kind
[20:03] Speaker 3: of go there and share that. But I thought, if
[20:07] Speaker 3: I'm going to tell a story about a character who
[20:10] Speaker 3: needs to learn how to take the mask off, and
[20:12] Speaker 3: I'm going to do that myself, you know, there's no
[20:15] Speaker 3: cheating here. I have to take the mask off myself
[20:18] Speaker 3: and kind of put.
[20:18] Speaker 2: It all out there.
[20:19] Speaker 1: There's a moment in it that stuck in my mind
[20:23] Speaker 1: where your character turns around to his family and others
[20:28] Speaker 1: in his immediate circle and says, you don't understand me. Essentially,
[20:35] Speaker 1: I'm trying to make a difference. I'm trying to change
[20:37] Speaker 1: the world so that people don't look at you and
[20:40] Speaker 1: think you're worthless. It's I wondered if that was personal
[20:45] Speaker 1: to you, the sense that you needed to break out
[20:48] Speaker 1: and do something different, because at the time you went
[20:50] Speaker 1: into the industry, there weren't very many actors of your
[20:55] Speaker 1: background and heritage, and if there were, they were playing
[20:57] Speaker 1: kind of like classic stereotypical post nine eleven roles.
[21:01] Speaker 3: You know what I love about that speech is it
[21:03] Speaker 3: is something feels so kind of When we were working
[21:07] Speaker 3: on that it needed to feel both like like there
[21:11] Speaker 3: was a nobility in it and also like a deeply
[21:14] Speaker 3: offensive condescension in it, and that this character was motivated
[21:19] Speaker 3: by both those things. And honestly, I think as an
[21:22] Speaker 3: artist there is often that combination. Right. You need to
[21:25] Speaker 3: have an ego to think you have something to say
[21:28] Speaker 3: and something to offer. But if that ego gets too big,
[21:31] Speaker 3: then rather than offering and giving something, what you want.
[21:34] Speaker 2: Is you want to get something.
[21:36] Speaker 3: You want to get that round of applause, you want
[21:37] Speaker 3: to get that praise, you want to get those accolades.
[21:40] Speaker 3: And so our character shot is walking that fine line.
[21:43] Speaker 3: But certainly, I think I've been through periods of my
[21:47] Speaker 3: life where what I think I'm seeking is other people's approval,
[21:51] Speaker 3: you know, whether for myself or what, yeah, and whether
[21:53] Speaker 3: for myself or whether for my community. And actually I'd
[21:56] Speaker 3: go as far as to say, is that that the
[21:57] Speaker 3: pendulum keeps swinging back and forth depending on how much
[22:01] Speaker 3: sleep you've had and how vulnerable you feel. We need
[22:04] Speaker 3: that kind of hug from the culture one day and
[22:08] Speaker 3: the next day you feel actually you can give yourself
[22:11] Speaker 3: that love.
[22:11] Speaker 1: But I wonder is that because as an actor, the
[22:14] Speaker 1: next role is probably always doubtful, right, you have that
[22:16] Speaker 1: kind of industry, or is it also because you think
[22:18] Speaker 1: the pendulum is changing back? Like the progress? You know,
[22:22] Speaker 1: what you've described is just like getting to the promised land.
[22:25] Speaker 1: The roles that are nothing to do with your heritage.
[22:27] Speaker 1: You've got there through sound of metal and others. But
[22:29] Speaker 1: are there worries that society or the industry is rolling
[22:33] Speaker 1: back on some of those things? You know?
[22:35] Speaker 3: I do think these things work in cycles. I think
[22:38] Speaker 3: culture works in cycles. History works in cycles, for better
[22:41] Speaker 3: and for worse. You know, I think we've been through
[22:43] Speaker 3: periods where dominant culture wants to like kind of like
[22:48] Speaker 3: regressively assert its narratives, and we've gone through periods actually
[22:54] Speaker 3: of greater collective kind of self confidence when we're able
[22:57] Speaker 3: to let you know, a thousand flowers blossom. You know,
[23:01] Speaker 3: I think that things never really kind of like stay
[23:06] Speaker 3: in one gear for too long, you know, for better
[23:09] Speaker 3: and worse. So I'm not too concerned about that. What
[23:14] Speaker 3: I am interested in, however, is something that I do
[23:18] Speaker 3: feel is unprecedented, is the democratizing of the tools of storytelling.
[23:22] Speaker 3: You know, it's fascinating to see how some of the
[23:29] Speaker 3: gatekeeping is no longer as effective as it was. Right
[23:33] Speaker 3: now we have different kind of gatekeeping, you know, it's
[23:35] Speaker 3: an algorithmic you know, and seeing consolidation across social media
[23:39] Speaker 3: might undo some of that democratization. But actually it's really
[23:43] Speaker 3: fascinating to me to see, like how these kids picking
[23:46] Speaker 3: up their phones can have a bigger audience than some
[23:49] Speaker 3: of these institutions.
[23:51] Speaker 2: And so that's a good thing.
[23:53] Speaker 3: I think it's it's I mean, it's a thing. There
[23:56] Speaker 3: are good things about it. There are things about it
[23:58] Speaker 3: that maybe a more But this is the reality that
[24:02] Speaker 3: we're in. So I don't know if the pendulum is
[24:04] Speaker 3: swinging back and forth, retracing its old steps. It's kind
[24:08] Speaker 3: of like swinging into new territory. And that's that's interesting.
[24:29] Speaker 1: Do you remember this book The good immigrant. It's ten
[24:31] Speaker 1: years old. You wrote an essay in it called Airports
[24:35] Speaker 1: and Auditions.
[24:36] Speaker 2: Right, it's a very good essay, thank you.
[24:39] Speaker 1: And I looked at it again and the reason I
[24:41] Speaker 1: wanted to talk to you about it is because you
[24:43] Speaker 1: talk about how how you grew up. You say, since
[24:46] Speaker 1: I was a teenager, I've had to play different characters,
[24:49] Speaker 1: negotiating the cultural expectations of a Pakistani family, brit Asian
[24:53] Speaker 1: rude boy culture, and a scholarship to private school. The
[24:56] Speaker 1: fluidity of my own personal identity on any given day
[24:59] Speaker 1: was for other compounded by the changing labels assigned to
[25:02] Speaker 1: Asians in general. Did acting come to you reasonably naturally
[25:09] Speaker 1: as an extension of what you were doing in your
[25:11] Speaker 1: own life?
[25:13] Speaker 3: And I look back on this and I realized it.
[25:15] Speaker 3: It's like I was playing different roles, or at least different
[25:19] Speaker 3: versions of myself. Right, speaking in Urdu, wearing shamarikamis at home,
[25:23] Speaker 3: to wearing rebot classics and you know kind of fake jewelry,
[25:28] Speaker 3: you know out on the street corner or then school uniform,
[25:32] Speaker 3: you know, wearing a tie that belonged to Clive House,
[25:35] Speaker 3: named after Clive of India.
[25:37] Speaker 2: Right, you know at school.
[25:40] Speaker 3: It was I look back and actually it was confusing,
[25:43] Speaker 3: But actually I think it was really enriching, you know.
[25:46] Speaker 3: And for a long time I thought of code switching
[25:49] Speaker 3: as this kind of like cross to bear, but also
[25:52] Speaker 3: kind of superpower, you know, that I was forced to
[25:55] Speaker 3: kind of explore these different versions of myself. I think
[25:58] Speaker 3: now my hope for my self, my hope for the
[26:01] Speaker 3: next generation is they don't have to code switch so much,
[26:04] Speaker 3: and that they're actually they get to bring all of
[26:07] Speaker 3: themselves into any.
[26:10] Speaker 2: Room they enter.
[26:11] Speaker 1: And I think that desire to change portrayals of ethnic minorities,
[26:15] Speaker 1: I mean, it's explicit in this essay because you talk
[26:18] Speaker 1: about these various stages of ethnic minority characters, the stereotype,
[26:23] Speaker 1: then the subversive portrayal, challenging the stereotypes, and then what
[26:26] Speaker 1: you call the promised Land. In the Promised Land, my
[26:29] Speaker 1: name might even be Dave. You've got there, right, You've
[26:33] Speaker 1: got to the Promised Land. You've been in Rogue one,
[26:36] Speaker 1: which is one of the Star Wars films.
[26:40] Speaker 2: What is still elusive? You know, it's interesting.
[26:43] Speaker 3: I don't think of the Promised Land as necessarily a
[26:45] Speaker 3: kind of destination. I think it's something we have to build.
[26:49] Speaker 3: At least I'm realizing that now, you know.
[26:52] Speaker 1: Hence producing writing, Yeah, I think more than acting.
[26:56] Speaker 3: Not so much more, but I mean, I guess I
[26:58] Speaker 3: see it all as extensions storytelling. You know, I've been
[27:01] Speaker 3: rapping and making music since I was a teenager, and
[27:05] Speaker 3: I think of that as storytelling. I think of producing
[27:07] Speaker 3: and writing scripts of storytelling. I think of acting as storytelling.
[27:10] Speaker 3: So I guess I'm aware that the kind of promised
[27:15] Speaker 3: land I want to see might be something that me
[27:17] Speaker 3: and others have to build, you know. And yeah, hence
[27:20] Speaker 3: you know, short films like The Longer By or Hamlet
[27:24] Speaker 3: or Bait. And I don't know if that feels elusive,
[27:27] Speaker 3: that feels exciting, that feels like the work that lies ahead.
[27:30] Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of really tough subjects you've tackled in
[27:33] Speaker 1: your work. And yet I read the other day that
[27:36] Speaker 1: you said your dream is to be a stand up
[27:38] Speaker 1: comedian in itself was a joke.
[27:41] Speaker 3: No, I mean, it's interesting because I like to think
[27:44] Speaker 3: that something like night Crawler, which is about the kind
[27:47] Speaker 3: of the insatiable appetite of like violence and news media,
[27:53] Speaker 3: it's actually very funny. Or four Lillions, which is about
[27:58] Speaker 3: you know, a happless group of would be suicide bombers.
[28:01] Speaker 2: Again, it's very funny.
[28:03] Speaker 3: I like to think that kind of humor has been
[28:06] Speaker 3: shot through my work. Actually that scene runs through it
[28:10] Speaker 3: or I don't know. I kind of like to try
[28:12] Speaker 3: and change lanes and be quite genre agnostic in that way.
[28:17] Speaker 3: It's quite important to me to have bait out alongside Hamlet.
[28:20] Speaker 3: You know. I don't like being pinned down. I want
[28:24] Speaker 3: to express all these different parts of myself. But you're right,
[28:28] Speaker 3: particularly in America, I think where four Lines maybe isn't
[28:30] Speaker 3: as much of a cultural touch point. Yeah, some people
[28:34] Speaker 3: might be surprised to see me do comedy, but I
[28:35] Speaker 3: think people particularly in the UK, you know, the early
[28:38] Speaker 3: part of my career, I think they know that's a
[28:40] Speaker 3: big part of who I am.
[28:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, so they mixing different things together takes me to
[28:45] Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live and the fact that you're part of
[28:47] Speaker 1: the UK lineup of that. What does it represent to you?
[28:52] Speaker 1: Is it an immediate yes when they came to you.
[28:54] Speaker 2: Yeah, of course.
[28:54] Speaker 3: I think it's a really cool opportunity to take this
[28:57] Speaker 3: kind of institution and do it our own way, you know,
[29:01] Speaker 3: do it with British humor that feels exciting to me.
[29:04] Speaker 3: I grew up on all these sketch shows, the Real
[29:06] Speaker 3: McCoy goodness, gracious me, Harry Enfield, The Fast Show, stay
[29:13] Speaker 3: up late to watch them. So yeah, I don't know,
[29:16] Speaker 3: it's kind of possibly. Those sketch shows are bigger influences
[29:20] Speaker 3: on me than any film.
[29:22] Speaker 1: But they've moved into the past, haven't they that that
[29:25] Speaker 1: particular kind of show is not really part of British
[29:29] Speaker 1: comedy anymore.
[29:30] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an interesting point you make, you know, And
[29:32] Speaker 3: I kind of think that that's a shame. And so
[29:36] Speaker 3: if it requires a kind of an American institution to
[29:41] Speaker 3: lend us their brand in order for us to kind
[29:43] Speaker 3: of revive that tradition here, there's such a rich tradition,
[29:47] Speaker 3: the no, I'm all for it.
[29:48] Speaker 1: You know.
[29:49] Speaker 3: Sometimes you need a shot in the arm to kind
[29:50] Speaker 3: of remember who you are. And I think that we
[29:52] Speaker 3: do sketch comedy pretty well here.
[29:54] Speaker 1: What else are you working on that you can share?
[29:57] Speaker 1: What's next in the in the portfolio?
[30:01] Speaker 3: You know? I did a film recently with Tom Cruise,
[30:04] Speaker 3: directed by Alejandro in Yuritu, who's we made Birdman and Revenant,
[30:09] Speaker 3: and it's such an incredible you know, visionary director, and
[30:13] Speaker 3: that experience was really unique, and I'm so excited not
[30:17] Speaker 3: only for people to see the film but see it myself.
[30:20] Speaker 2: I haven't seen it unique. It was unique.
[30:23] Speaker 3: Because you've got this combination of actually obsessive perfectionists and
[30:30] Speaker 3: the director. The director, you've got one of the all
[30:33] Speaker 3: time greatest directors, you know, You've got Tom Cruise, possibly
[30:36] Speaker 3: the most notable film star, you know, arguably, you know,
[30:40] Speaker 3: top three in the history of cinema. And so the
[30:43] Speaker 3: level of focus, attention to detail and care that they
[30:48] Speaker 3: brought to every single thing it flawed me. It really
[30:54] Speaker 3: flawed me, and particularly Tom. His energy is that of
[30:57] Speaker 3: a just a world class athlete, is completely inexhaustible reserves
[31:03] Speaker 3: of energy and constantly kind of quarterbacking it, you know, constantly.
[31:07] Speaker 3: I remember on one of the first days of rehearsal,
[31:09] Speaker 3: I tried something out with the character that didn't quite
[31:12] Speaker 3: work and said, I didn't really work, did it? Allejandra said, no,
[31:14] Speaker 3: no worries, but we'll keep going. Tom stopped the rehearsal.
[31:18] Speaker 3: To say is when you try things like that, when
[31:21] Speaker 3: you're creating in that way and taking swings, I love it.
[31:25] Speaker 2: Don't ever stop doing it.
[31:27] Speaker 3: And it gave me a round of applause for making mistake,
[31:31] Speaker 3: And I just thought, this guy is just an inspirational leader,
[31:34] Speaker 3: and it's no coincidence that he's in the place he
[31:37] Speaker 3: is in because he just cares so much.
[31:39] Speaker 2: That was a real lesson. It was amazing, you know.
[31:42] Speaker 1: It was Actually if he hadn't said that, you might
[31:44] Speaker 1: well have thought, oh, that was just really embarrassing to
[31:46] Speaker 1: try something out, It doesn't work in front of all
[31:48] Speaker 1: these people on set, never going.
[31:49] Speaker 3: There exactly, but actually being given permission to fail, to
[31:53] Speaker 3: be messy, to try things is so crucial, not just
[31:56] Speaker 3: for an actor in rehearsal, but for an executive at
[31:59] Speaker 3: a company or anything.
[32:00] Speaker 2: You know.
[32:00] Speaker 1: Speaking of being inexhaustible, I feel that's got to be
[32:04] Speaker 1: the case with you as well, right, look at the
[32:06] Speaker 1: number of things that you're working on, and I'm sure
[32:09] Speaker 1: as an actor you're always grateful for the work. But
[32:13] Speaker 1: this podcast is part of Bloomberg Weekend, so I have
[32:15] Speaker 1: to ask you what yours are like, you know, husband,
[32:19] Speaker 1: parents as well, what are those days of the week like.
[32:22] Speaker 3: My weekends are the highlight of my week. And they're
[32:26] Speaker 3: very simple, They're just very simple. They're about having breakfast together.
[32:31] Speaker 3: It's about going for a walk.
[32:34] Speaker 2: My kid loves going to the fishmongers, just as I did.
[32:37] Speaker 3: Weirdly, I used to love going there with my mom
[32:39] Speaker 3: and just looking at the fish, just touching the fish
[32:42] Speaker 3: and talking. You know, he's obsessed with that, you know,
[32:45] Speaker 3: just these simple kind of things, these simple rituals, traditions.
[32:50] Speaker 3: It's just so grounding and it's you know, it's what
[32:53] Speaker 3: life's about. So I keep extremely boring and very simple
[32:58] Speaker 3: and quite slow, and I try and visit my parents'
[33:02] Speaker 3: most weekends, if not every weekend. It's very boring and
[33:06] Speaker 3: extremely satisfying.
[33:07] Speaker 1: But I imagine quite hard to protect that kind of time.
[33:11] Speaker 2: It can be when you're filming, in particular often this and.
[33:14] Speaker 1: You're always thinking about the next project, or there's a
[33:17] Speaker 1: script you need to read or like to actually force
[33:20] Speaker 1: yourself to know.
[33:21] Speaker 3: It's challenging. And I think that's something that most people
[33:24] Speaker 3: can relate to now. Right the working week seems to
[33:26] Speaker 3: like be seven days at this point, and disengaging from
[33:29] Speaker 3: emails is like such a discipline, takes such force of will.
[33:33] Speaker 3: I think something that I'm kind of rediscovering is the
[33:38] Speaker 3: importance of boredom. You know that actually the adreamal rush
[33:44] Speaker 3: of being constantly active is an addiction. It's an addiction
[33:49] Speaker 3: like any other. And trying to kind of like find
[33:54] Speaker 3: ways of just downshifting my nervous system to appreciate stillness.
[33:59] Speaker 2: It takes effort.
[34:01] Speaker 3: It takes effort, and I what I'm discovering is like
[34:05] Speaker 3: the bigger boundary to keep is internal rather than external. Actually,
[34:09] Speaker 3: if I tell people, hey, don't contact me here, it
[34:12] Speaker 3: usually won't. But there's a part of me that wants
[34:15] Speaker 3: them to. It's a part of me that wants to
[34:16] Speaker 3: keep riding the wave of activity. And so I think
[34:19] Speaker 3: that's just that's a learning curve that I'm on.
[34:22] Speaker 1: But that space is that also where ideas come from
[34:24] Speaker 1: that you actually need to.
[34:27] Speaker 3: There's a reason why the best ideas come in the
[34:30] Speaker 3: shower or the toilet seat. And you're not the toilet
[34:32] Speaker 3: sea anymore because we'll take our phones to the toilet.
[34:34] Speaker 3: But in the shower is the last sanctuary of our imagination,
[34:38] Speaker 3: isn't it. You don't have your phone on you and
[34:41] Speaker 3: you're just doing something automatic. And I feel driving around
[34:45] Speaker 3: in a car as well to be like where I
[34:47] Speaker 3: have those Eureka moments doing the dishes, all these kinds
[34:51] Speaker 3: of things, right, you do the dishes? I definitely, because
[34:54] Speaker 3: my wife does not. I am the neat freak. So yeah,
[34:58] Speaker 3: that's my very OCD about those.
[35:01] Speaker 2: Kinds of things.
[35:02] Speaker 1: Finally, is I do want to ask you about fame
[35:04] Speaker 1: because you have got fame now. When you go to
[35:07] Speaker 1: the park with your kid, I'm sure there are times
[35:09] Speaker 1: you're spotted and asked for a selfie. How do you
[35:12] Speaker 1: deal with that side of life?
[35:15] Speaker 3: You know, I think that the level of recognition I
[35:22] Speaker 3: have is I'm very grateful for it. You know, a
[35:26] Speaker 3: couple of times a day someone will say something nice
[35:28] Speaker 3: or not will say a pleasant word. You know, usually
[35:30] Speaker 3: when you're with family, people understanding they want to picture.
[35:34] Speaker 2: I just say, you know, I'm with family right now.
[35:35] Speaker 3: And move on. It's just kind of like an intermittent
[35:42] Speaker 3: kind of nudge of positivity through your day. I think
[35:45] Speaker 3: I think the bigger issue isn't kind of other people.
[35:48] Speaker 3: I think it's internal. Actually it's it's kind of it
[35:52] Speaker 3: can make you a bit guarded, you know. I used
[35:56] Speaker 3: to just love engaging strangers in prolonged conversation. Just I
[36:01] Speaker 3: just love I'm just quite chatty British way. I don't know, actually,
[36:06] Speaker 3: you know, particularly I mean if you go up north,
[36:07] Speaker 3: for example, I don't know, Like it's it's about chatting
[36:10] Speaker 3: to the shop keeper, chating to someone of the bus stop.
[36:12] Speaker 2: I just love that. And I think I've.
[36:14] Speaker 3: Stopped doing that as much because part of me wasn't
[36:17] Speaker 3: sure if these people are engaging with me because they're
[36:20] Speaker 3: having a pleasant chat with random or because they recognized
[36:23] Speaker 3: me or something, and there's something ulterior going on, and
[36:26] Speaker 3: and I think it's made me a bit more guarded.
[36:29] Speaker 3: I think the problem is more my own trust rather
[36:31] Speaker 3: than other people's behavior, which is interesting.
[36:34] Speaker 1: And for someone who lives their life telling stories, are
[36:37] Speaker 1: you storytelling to your your child? Now?
[36:40] Speaker 3: Yeah? My child loves stories, and and you know both
[36:45] Speaker 3: of us are storytellers, so your wife's and novelists exactly.
[36:48] Speaker 1: So.
[36:51] Speaker 2: Exactly.
[36:51] Speaker 3: Yeah, So no, it's it's just you kind of like
[36:57] Speaker 3: those are the things you hold on to, right. I
[36:58] Speaker 3: just remember the stories that my dad would tell me
[37:01] Speaker 3: growing up that still stuck with me, And I do
[37:04] Speaker 3: think the story is something kind of magical and spiritual,
[37:07] Speaker 3: and it's the most profound, powerful technology we've ever created
[37:10] Speaker 3: as humans. So I don't know, I kind of feel
[37:13] Speaker 3: like stories are where we find ourselves and how we
[37:16] Speaker 3: recognize our similarities with characters who seemingly are nothing like us.
[37:20] Speaker 3: And yeah, I'm kind of evangelical about the power and
[37:24] Speaker 3: importance of story at the heart of our culture.
[37:28] Speaker 1: Riz Amad, thank you so much. Thank you, And that's
[37:37] Speaker 1: where we left our conversation. If you're in the US,
[37:40] Speaker 1: do look out for Hamlet in movie theaters and wherever
[37:44] Speaker 1: you are, you'll find Bait on Prime Video. Riz was,
[37:48] Speaker 1: by the way, the first guest in our new studio
[37:51] Speaker 1: in London, and if you have a look on Instagram,
[37:54] Speaker 1: you'll see a video that I shared of him cutting
[37:56] Speaker 1: a ceremonial ribbon before we began to mark the moment.
[38:00] Speaker 1: And so to the team. The producers are Jessica Beck
[38:03] Speaker 1: and Chris Martlou. The video producer is Andy Haywood. Social
[38:07] Speaker 1: media is by Alex Morgan, Production assistance by Jennifer Seeley,
[38:11] Speaker 1: audio mixing by Richard Ward. Our music is by Bart Walshaw,
[38:15] Speaker 1: and the executive producer is Louisa Lewis at Bloomberg Weekend.
[38:20] Speaker 1: The director of Audio and Special Projects is Brendan Francis
[38:23] Speaker 1: Newnham and our executive editor is Catherine Bell. Just to
[38:27] Speaker 1: remind you, the email is Micheals Show at Bloomberg dot net.
[38:32] Speaker 1: And we do right back until next time. Goodbye,

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