# ‘KPop Demon Hunters’ Creator Maggie Kang on the Global Hit No One Saw Coming

An episode of [The Mishal Husain Show](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1845840408), 20 Feb 2026, 41 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/tracking.swap.fm/track/UVBrz8bN8aM2Xe47PEPu/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/d4afad24-707c-42c5-afc3-b36200ef6fe2/7e790d0d-738d-48ef-8f87-b3f600f4cfcf/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=16eda0d4-f4e8-48ea-8fbb-b36200ef73d1

“KPop Demon Hunters” is the brainchild of Korean-Canadian animator Maggie Kang. It’s Netflix’s biggest-ever film and follows Rumi, Mira and Zoey, members of the girl band Huntrix, as they battle to save the world from dark forces. As you’ll hear, Kang grew up loving Korean pop music long before it was globally cool and forged a Hollywood career on films including “The Lego Ninjago Movie” and “Kung Fu Panda 3.” In this conversation with Mishal Husain, Kang explains how she had always hoped a story about Korea would one day come her way. But it never did, so she came up with her own. Kang is in the middle of a life-changing moment. Her movie has already scored wins at the Golden Globes and the Grammys, and now all eyes are on the Oscars. The extraordinary thing is that no one expected “KPop Demon Hunters” to be such a smash hit. Husain asks Kang what it’s been like adjusting to all the attention, and of course whether there’s a sequel in the works. 03:06 - “A global phenomenon” 04:17 - The screaming fans 05:01 - The movie theater screenings 06:49 - Pitching “KPop Demon Hunters” 09:27 - Living between two cultures 12:04 - Growing up as an “outsider” 16:34 - Kang’s first animation book 17:16 - “I liked to draw” 18:21 - Recording the voiceover, over and over 20:11 - The story of “Golden” 21:39 - Rumi, Mira and Zoey in “Golden” 23:00 - Waiting for “the tingles” 25:25 - “We kinda worried it was a little cheesy” 27:27 - Helping the world find Korean culture 29:30 - Choosing the title for a “kooky” movie 34:20 - A message from Kang to the fans 34:48 - “There’s a sequel, surely?” 35:14 - Live action “KPop Demon Hunters”? 37:01 - “I’m still very grounded” 37:22 - Diving back into the sequel? 38:00 - “Wow! You are going to the Oscars!” Read this interview with Mishal’s notes on Bloomberg Weekend: www.bloomberg.com/latest/weekend-interview Contact The Mishal Husain Show mishalshow@bloomberg.net Visit https://www.bloomberg.com/mishal Contact The Mishal Husain Show mishalshow@bloomberg.net Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
[0:08] Speaker 2: I am somebody who lives between two cultures. I would
[0:13] Speaker 2: always introduce myself as a Korean Canadian, and so I
[0:17] Speaker 2: was able to select all the things that I loved
[0:20] Speaker 2: about each and meld it together because that's who I am.
[0:25] Speaker 1: Maggie kang Oscar nominated creator of K Pop Demon Hunters.
[0:31] Speaker 2: Every time somebody plays the film on Netflix, they are
[0:34] Speaker 2: immersing themselves in Korean culture and that's really special.
[0:38] Speaker 1: I want to know about the music offestigue.
[0:40] Speaker 2: I didn't really approve any song until we felt the tingles,
[0:44] Speaker 2: like the butterflies in our stomach, because that is the
[0:47] Speaker 2: whole point of this movie is to show that music
[0:50] Speaker 2: has this power to make us feel.
[0:53] Speaker 1: From Bloomberg Weekend, this is the Michelle Hussein Show. I'm
[0:58] Speaker 1: Michelle Hussein. Go see K Pop Demon Hunters. That's what
[1:07] Speaker 1: Kara Swisher said to me slightly unexpectedly at the end
[1:11] Speaker 1: of our conversation about tech at the start of this year.
[1:15] Speaker 1: She said she was living in the K Pop Demon
[1:18] Speaker 1: Hunter's zone, that there was this movie about cultural shifts
[1:22] Speaker 1: in society and I needed to trust her and go
[1:25] Speaker 1: see it. I confess at the time it had slightly
[1:30] Speaker 1: passed me by, but commanded by Kara, I did then
[1:34] Speaker 1: see it, and I get it. There is a reason
[1:38] Speaker 1: that this unusual, authentically Korean and yet accessible story has
[1:44] Speaker 1: had hundreds of millions of views since it came out
[1:47] Speaker 1: last summer. It's become Netflix's biggest movie yet. And the
[1:53] Speaker 1: extraordinary thing is no one expected it. There's been something
[1:57] Speaker 1: wonderfully organic about how this blend of superheroes, Korean culture,
[2:03] Speaker 1: Korean music, and female power took off. How And we'll
[2:16] Speaker 1: dive into all of that with Maggie Kang, the woman
[2:19] Speaker 1: who created and co directed it. After more than a
[2:23] Speaker 1: decade working as an animator in Hollywood, given the global
[2:27] Speaker 1: appeal of K pop, she thought a story about career
[2:31] Speaker 1: would come her way one day, and when it didn't,
[2:34] Speaker 1: she came up with her own about a girl band
[2:38] Speaker 1: battling against dark forces. After wins at the Grammys and
[2:42] Speaker 1: the Golden Globes, Maggie's now hoping for Oscar success, and
[2:47] Speaker 1: as you'll hear, she's still adjusting to all the attention
[2:52] Speaker 1: and the love she's getting. So there is a joy
[2:56] Speaker 1: in this that I appreciated and I you will too.
[3:06] Speaker 1: What was the moment when you realize that your creation
[3:11] Speaker 1: had become a global phenomenon.
[3:13] Speaker 2: Last year, oh, a global phenomenon, I guess it is.
[3:24] Speaker 2: I think it was around September, and I took a
[3:27] Speaker 2: trip to Korea, and then on the way back, that
[3:31] Speaker 2: was when the single Longs were starting, and so our
[3:34] Speaker 2: crew was in New York, and so I flew back
[3:38] Speaker 2: from Korea right to JFK and as soon as I landed,
[3:42] Speaker 2: they took me to a screening for one of the
[3:46] Speaker 2: single alongs somewhere near Central Park, and I was very
[3:50] Speaker 2: jet like. I walked in and we're backstage, and they said,
[3:53] Speaker 2: nobody knows you guys are here, but we're going to
[3:55] Speaker 2: surprise the audience. And it was it was myself, Chris Apple,
[4:01] Speaker 2: Ardent Chow, I think Kevin Wu and Ray Ami were there.
[4:05] Speaker 2: And so after the film we walked in and I
[4:08] Speaker 2: don't think I had experienced the kind of kid audience yet,
[4:11] Speaker 2: because I'd seen all the reactions from Instagram and TikTok
[4:14] Speaker 2: and online, but not in person. And so to walk
[4:18] Speaker 2: out there and see just the wall of like screaming
[4:22] Speaker 2: kids just wearing their Hunter Tricks outfits and the wigs
[4:28] Speaker 2: and the parents and it was just kind of all
[4:31] Speaker 2: demographics and a lot of kids as well, and they
[4:34] Speaker 2: were just screaming and they were like loving this movie.
[4:36] Speaker 2: And I think that just really blew my mind. I
[4:40] Speaker 2: just hadn't really realized how big it was and how
[4:44] Speaker 2: many different people were really loving the film so and
[4:48] Speaker 2: then on top of the jet lag, I think that
[4:49] Speaker 2: was that was a very special moment.
[4:53] Speaker 1: What a great moment, and also a significant moment in
[4:56] Speaker 1: the story of the film because that was, you know,
[4:59] Speaker 1: some weeks after release on Netflix, but the sing alongs
[5:03] Speaker 1: were the way that it went for a short time
[5:05] Speaker 1: into movie theaters and you got this communal experience, which
[5:08] Speaker 1: obviously meant so much to you as the creator.
[5:11] Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and that was pretty intense. It was just
[5:16] Speaker 2: a great experience to watch the film on a big
[5:19] Speaker 2: screen with the live audience, and you know, as a
[5:22] Speaker 2: filmmaker who has worked on this movie for so long,
[5:27] Speaker 2: for seven years, and I think the movie got so
[5:32] Speaker 2: global so quickly because we were on a streaming platforms
[5:35] Speaker 2: and through Netflix, we were able to release the movie.
[5:39] Speaker 2: I believe it was something like one hundred and twenty
[5:41] Speaker 2: countries at once, and that was just an incredible way
[5:45] Speaker 2: to release, and I don't think you could get as
[5:48] Speaker 2: global as that, and so we benefited from that release
[5:52] Speaker 2: and having it be dubbed in so many languages as well.
[5:56] Speaker 2: But to experience a movie that you made and worked
[5:59] Speaker 2: on for so long in a theater with it with
[6:02] Speaker 2: an audience who already loved the movie, I don't know
[6:04] Speaker 2: what it's like with an audience that doesn't know your
[6:06] Speaker 2: movie yet, but they're already there loving it. And it
[6:09] Speaker 2: felt like a concert, And it felt like I was
[6:12] Speaker 2: experiencing what we were trying to capture in our film,
[6:15] Speaker 2: is that communal love for something for Hunter Tricks, and
[6:20] Speaker 2: so that was very special.
[6:21] Speaker 1: And I want to hear the story of those seven
[6:24] Speaker 1: years and getting to the moment that the movies come out.
[6:28] Speaker 1: But before I do that, Kara Swisher was the one
[6:31] Speaker 1: who first told me to see it, and I have,
[6:33] Speaker 1: and I, okay, I marvel at what you've done. But
[6:36] Speaker 1: for anyone who hasn't seen it, I think we should
[6:39] Speaker 1: tell a bit of the story. So how sure would
[6:42] Speaker 1: you describe it? The clue is kind of in the
[6:44] Speaker 1: title that it is both K pop and about demon hunting.
[6:47] Speaker 2: Yes. Yes, the way that I pushed it to my
[6:51] Speaker 2: producer friend who bought the concept. Is it's okay about
[6:55] Speaker 2: girl group called hun Tricks. Yes, Hello, see Gritly Moonlight
[7:00] Speaker 2: as demon hunters and protect a world from demons? That's it.
[7:15] Speaker 1: What kind of reactions did you get because hearing you
[7:17] Speaker 1: say the words like, we're all used to the concept
[7:19] Speaker 1: now it's been massively successful, but it sounds pretty unlikely.
[7:23] Speaker 2: Yes, it sounds pretty wild and pretty crazy. And fortunately
[7:28] Speaker 2: the person I pitched it to was very, very down
[7:33] Speaker 2: to do it. He felt like it was very gettable
[7:36] Speaker 2: and unique, and he was just immediately like, let's do this,
[7:39] Speaker 2: and I totally thought he was joking, But the next
[7:42] Speaker 2: week he had a deal ready, so we just jumped
[7:44] Speaker 2: right into development. But it is a wild concept, I
[7:48] Speaker 2: do agree.
[7:49] Speaker 1: And you had been thinking about it, had you for
[7:52] Speaker 1: a long time because at the heart of the movie,
[7:54] Speaker 1: it's authenticity, the fact that it's so rooted in Korean culture.
[7:59] Speaker 1: This is of course your own heritage as a Korean Canadian,
[8:02] Speaker 1: So was the genesis of the film in the back
[8:05] Speaker 1: of your mind for a long time.
[8:07] Speaker 2: I've always wanted to do a film rooted in Korean culture,
[8:11] Speaker 2: and I've always wanted to work on one since the
[8:14] Speaker 2: beginning phases of my career, and I had talked to
[8:18] Speaker 2: a bunch of Korean studios and so I knew that
[8:20] Speaker 2: the desire to make something Korean was there even in Korea,
[8:24] Speaker 2: but we just didn't know how to get that off
[8:27] Speaker 2: the ground. And so for years I just I waited
[8:31] Speaker 2: for a project like this to come along that I
[8:34] Speaker 2: could contribute to, but it never came. And so by
[8:38] Speaker 2: the time I felt like I had developed my skills enough,
[8:42] Speaker 2: my writing skills, my comedy skills, my storyboarding skills, my
[8:46] Speaker 2: filmmaking skills, and I was I felt confident to step
[8:50] Speaker 2: into the directing role. I thought, well, I guess nobody
[8:54] Speaker 2: has done this yet, maybe I have to take it
[8:56] Speaker 2: on myself to make something for our culture. And so
[8:59] Speaker 2: that's what I did.
[9:01] Speaker 1: And what you've done is create this blend of something
[9:05] Speaker 1: that is authentic in that Korean mythology, the Korean language,
[9:12] Speaker 1: the setting in Seoul, the names of your characters and places,
[9:18] Speaker 1: and yet it's successible. You know, it has that international
[9:22] Speaker 1: feel to it, and yes, deconstruct that for us. How
[9:25] Speaker 1: do you produce that combination?
[9:27] Speaker 2: You know, I truly believe it's because I am somebody
[9:32] Speaker 2: who really lives between two cultures almost equally. I would
[9:37] Speaker 2: say I would always introduce myself as a Korean Canadian.
[9:42] Speaker 2: I always put Korean first, even though I've spent the
[9:45] Speaker 2: majority of my life outside of Korea. I was born
[9:47] Speaker 2: in Korea, I lived there until I was five before
[9:50] Speaker 2: my family immigrated to Canada, and I lived there for
[9:54] Speaker 2: eighteen years before moving to the States. But I always
[9:58] Speaker 2: identified as Korean first, and I think it's because my parents,
[10:02] Speaker 2: my mom specifically always told me that you are Korean,
[10:06] Speaker 2: you can never forget the language, and just really instilled
[10:10] Speaker 2: that Korean pride in me early early on, and because
[10:15] Speaker 2: they really wanted my sister and I did to have
[10:17] Speaker 2: deep roots, you know, with our culture. We spent all
[10:20] Speaker 2: of our summer vacations in Korea with our cousins, and
[10:25] Speaker 2: so that's where I was just immersed in Korean culture,
[10:28] Speaker 2: Korean pop culture, and so I grew up listening to
[10:32] Speaker 2: Korean music even before the kind of style of k
[10:36] Speaker 2: pop ever existed. Korean music is my first like introduction
[10:39] Speaker 2: to music, really, and so because I grew up with that,
[10:43] Speaker 2: it was just always there. And then English was my
[10:46] Speaker 2: second language, and American North American pop culture is my
[10:49] Speaker 2: second you know knowledge. So I do feel like I
[10:52] Speaker 2: have equally like deep roots in both, and so I
[10:56] Speaker 2: was able to kind of select all the things that
[11:00] Speaker 2: I loved about each and melded together, because that's that's
[11:04] Speaker 2: who I am. I'm just a meld of both cultures.
[11:07] Speaker 1: But earlier on in your life, Maggie, were there aspects
[11:10] Speaker 1: of this you struggle with, right? I look, I come
[11:13] Speaker 1: from a South Asian background. I grew up as an
[11:15] Speaker 1: expat kid in the Middle East. My family came to
[11:18] Speaker 1: the UK later. But yes, you know, I remember being
[11:21] Speaker 1: very conscious of the fact in a British school, I
[11:24] Speaker 1: didn't call my parents Mum and dad. You know these things.
[11:27] Speaker 1: It's not easy to be different.
[11:30] Speaker 2: It's not and I did face that, of course, But
[11:35] Speaker 2: I do think because I grew up in Toronto, and
[11:38] Speaker 2: Toronto is already a very multicultural city, is very diverse,
[11:44] Speaker 2: and the city encourages different cultures to celebrate their culture.
[11:50] Speaker 2: We have Korea Town, we have Greek Town, we have
[11:52] Speaker 2: like a little Italy so in Chinatown, and so I
[11:56] Speaker 2: always felt like I was growing up with a lot
[11:59] Speaker 2: of different people from different backgrounds. But even then, I
[12:03] Speaker 2: did feel like as a Korean person. Even amongst the
[12:06] Speaker 2: Asian community, we were kind of a minority because most
[12:11] Speaker 2: of my friends, well actually all my friends that I
[12:14] Speaker 2: went to high school with, are Chinese, and as a
[12:17] Speaker 2: Korean person, I still felt a little bit of an
[12:20] Speaker 2: outsider because they could celebrate things together as Chinese people,
[12:25] Speaker 2: but I, as the only Korean friend, I felt a
[12:28] Speaker 2: little bit on the outside. And I remember when Mulan
[12:34] Speaker 2: Disney's Mulan came out, they were very excited that their
[12:37] Speaker 2: culture was being celebrated through the lens of Disney, but
[12:40] Speaker 2: they were also frustrated that it wasn't represented properly, like
[12:44] Speaker 2: exactly the way that they wanted it, because it is
[12:47] Speaker 2: kind of a meld of Chinese culture and Japanese culture,
[12:49] Speaker 2: and there's some Korean influences in there as well. And
[12:52] Speaker 2: when I heard that, I just, you know, that really
[12:55] Speaker 2: stuck with me. And so when I started on K
[12:58] Speaker 2: pop d Manitors, that was very important to me to
[13:00] Speaker 2: make something that showcased our culture in the modern day
[13:05] Speaker 2: and not fantasy, not like old times when you could
[13:09] Speaker 2: kind of feel like you have liberties to change things
[13:11] Speaker 2: or skew things in more of a fantasy lens. But
[13:15] Speaker 2: I wanted to represent our culture like the way it
[13:18] Speaker 2: is now.
[13:19] Speaker 1: Did you find yourself at school ever having to explain
[13:22] Speaker 1: where career is or what career is?
[13:26] Speaker 2: I did, And my earliest memory of that was I
[13:31] Speaker 2: was at a young age. I was maybe about eight
[13:32] Speaker 2: or nine years old, I think, and my teacher asked
[13:35] Speaker 2: me if I was Chinese and I said no. They
[13:37] Speaker 2: asked me if I was Japanese. I said no, well,
[13:39] Speaker 2: I'm from Korea. And the teacher tried to find it
[13:42] Speaker 2: on a map and could not find it. And I
[13:45] Speaker 2: pointed it out to them and they were like, oh,
[13:48] Speaker 2: it's a country between Japan and China. And I was shocked.
[13:52] Speaker 2: I was shocked that my teacher couldn't find it on
[13:54] Speaker 2: the map. And even at a young age, I was
[13:56] Speaker 2: very proud of where I came from. But that really
[13:59] Speaker 2: left a mark on me, and I think that was
[14:01] Speaker 2: kind of the spark for me that started.
[14:04] Speaker 1: Well, the fact that you can remember it all these
[14:06] Speaker 1: years down the line, But how did it make you
[14:08] Speaker 1: feel at the time, like where you came from didn't matter?
[14:13] Speaker 2: It just I was very confused why somebody wouldn't know
[14:17] Speaker 2: about this culture that, you know. I had been told
[14:20] Speaker 2: by my parents that it's this great culture, and I
[14:23] Speaker 2: knew so much of the history as well, reading books
[14:26] Speaker 2: and being taught at and like where our language came
[14:28] Speaker 2: from and why it was developed. Because I knew all
[14:31] Speaker 2: of that, it oddly didn't make me feel like our
[14:36] Speaker 2: culture was smaller, but it made me just a little
[14:39] Speaker 2: bit more proud, I think, And I think it lit
[14:41] Speaker 2: a spark in me that, you know that I really
[14:44] Speaker 2: wanted to do whatever I could to educate people about
[14:49] Speaker 2: our culture. Yeah, even at a young age, I remember
[14:52] Speaker 2: having that feeling.
[14:53] Speaker 1: Obviously, you've really done that through this There are children, parents,
[14:57] Speaker 1: people of all ages really all around the world who
[15:00] Speaker 1: consciously or even subliminately have learnt things about career, your culture,
[15:05] Speaker 1: history through this film.
[15:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean that's one of the most proud
[15:12] Speaker 2: things about that I feel about this film is that
[15:15] Speaker 2: every time somebody plays the film on Netflix, they are
[15:18] Speaker 2: immersing themselves in Korean culture and that's really special.
[15:42] Speaker 1: Your parents, what did they want you to grow up
[15:45] Speaker 1: to be? Were they trying to push you in a
[15:47] Speaker 1: particular direction.
[15:49] Speaker 2: Well, I'm the youngest of two kids, and so I
[15:52] Speaker 2: didn't get the doctor lawyer a typical Asian family. I
[15:56] Speaker 2: got that wanting your kid to be an acurd. I
[16:00] Speaker 2: didn't get that really. My dad he has a lot
[16:03] Speaker 2: of interests, but fortunate for me, one of his biggest
[16:06] Speaker 2: interests is film. He's a huge centophile and he has
[16:09] Speaker 2: a massive collection of film from directors all over the world.
[16:13] Speaker 2: And so at a young age, I was exposed to
[16:17] Speaker 2: the best films created, like carsal films, Felini, like a Kislowski,
[16:23] Speaker 2: Chaplain Buster Keaton. So I got this like film schooling
[16:29] Speaker 2: at my house. And I think he knew that I
[16:32] Speaker 2: wanted to be a storyteller because I wrote little stories
[16:36] Speaker 2: at school too at a young age, and I would
[16:38] Speaker 2: only draw when I had something to say, like it
[16:42] Speaker 2: was for these characters or these story moments. And so
[16:46] Speaker 2: my dad bought me an animation book at Disney Animation
[16:49] Speaker 2: Book and that was the first time I really knew
[16:53] Speaker 2: or realized that this could be a career. And so
[16:56] Speaker 2: he really supported me down that path. And so they
[16:59] Speaker 2: were oddly the odd Asian parents who are very supportive
[17:03] Speaker 2: of a child going into the arts. So I'm really
[17:06] Speaker 2: grateful that they supported me from that on that.
[17:09] Speaker 1: So you were drawn to animation because you could draw
[17:13] Speaker 1: as well as right.
[17:15] Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I like to draw, and that's what my
[17:19] Speaker 2: dad saw and I think he kind of put those
[17:23] Speaker 2: two things together for me, just the love of film
[17:25] Speaker 2: and storytelling and animation.
[17:28] Speaker 1: And does it tell me about the genre and what
[17:30] Speaker 1: it gives you. Is there a freedom in animation that
[17:33] Speaker 1: you can draw the characters any way you like?
[17:36] Speaker 2: Yes, I think there's that. There's also just our process
[17:40] Speaker 2: of filmmaking. You can iterate a lot, you can iterate
[17:44] Speaker 2: to no end. Really, you iterate until your producer says, Okay,
[17:48] Speaker 2: we're out of money or your time is up and
[17:50] Speaker 2: we need to move this into production. And so we
[17:53] Speaker 2: always joke that, you know, in animation, you're never done,
[17:56] Speaker 2: you just run out of time. So you're able to
[17:59] Speaker 2: kind of craw to moments and crafted until it's almost perfect.
[18:03] Speaker 2: And I think that's what we are striving for in
[18:06] Speaker 2: animation is perfection. And it can be dangerous because when
[18:09] Speaker 2: you do that and when you rework something, it can
[18:12] Speaker 2: feel very labored and feel unnatural. But to make it
[18:16] Speaker 2: feel feel natural, feel spontaneous, it's really tricky, but you
[18:20] Speaker 2: know we try to strive for that as well.
[18:22] Speaker 1: How do you get that to make it feel spontaneous?
[18:25] Speaker 1: Let me into your world.
[18:29] Speaker 2: Oddly enough, it requires rewatching something many many times, and
[18:35] Speaker 2: sometimes it's changing a couple of words that a character
[18:38] Speaker 2: would say or the performance of it. And some of
[18:42] Speaker 2: our process is, you know, when we work with the actors,
[18:44] Speaker 2: we take many takes. For even a line that's I
[18:47] Speaker 2: don't know, as simple as hey, what are you doing?
[18:51] Speaker 2: You could say that line in so many different ways,
[18:53] Speaker 2: in so many different tones, and so we'll get even
[18:56] Speaker 2: for a line that simple, we'll get twenty or forty
[19:00] Speaker 2: different takes of that same line, and we'll review every
[19:03] Speaker 2: single one of them, and every intonation within that line
[19:09] Speaker 2: can change the tone of the entire sentence, the delivery
[19:12] Speaker 2: of it.
[19:12] Speaker 1: So just imagining the actors being in the room and
[19:15] Speaker 1: you taking them through that, because you've got to manage
[19:19] Speaker 1: their expectations.
[19:20] Speaker 2: There yes energy like this.
[19:22] Speaker 1: You know, the probably is a point where you think
[19:25] Speaker 1: I mean, or they're or they're thinking, can I really
[19:27] Speaker 1: do it anymore?
[19:28] Speaker 2: Oh? If you say the same line five or even
[19:32] Speaker 2: ten times, they just become syllables and they just lose
[19:37] Speaker 2: all meaning. And I know this because I've done this
[19:39] Speaker 2: as well for the movie. It just becomes weird, like
[19:42] Speaker 2: you're just saying you don't know what you're saying anymore. Yeah,
[19:45] Speaker 2: and it can get that way.
[19:47] Speaker 1: I want to know about the music, obviously, because that's
[19:49] Speaker 1: such a key part of this what's the process? You
[19:52] Speaker 1: have these songs within the film that have been so
[19:55] Speaker 1: incredibly successful in their own right. Golden is the most obvious,
[20:00] Speaker 1: but there are others like Takedown. Do you give the
[20:03] Speaker 1: songwriters a brief I want a certain kind of song
[20:06] Speaker 1: for this moment in the film, and then they're kind
[20:09] Speaker 1: of trying songs out on you.
[20:12] Speaker 2: It was a very long process. Oh, use Golden as
[20:14] Speaker 2: an example. When we are working on our film, we
[20:18] Speaker 2: work on something called a real a story reel, and
[20:21] Speaker 2: it's all storyboards. It's all hand drawn, and we have
[20:24] Speaker 2: story artists who create these drawings that represent the finished movie.
[20:29] Speaker 2: So they are thinking about what the camera shot is,
[20:32] Speaker 2: what the action is in that moment, So they draw
[20:35] Speaker 2: out the characters moving, and it's not really animated. I
[20:39] Speaker 2: would say it's like one drawing every two drawings per second,
[20:43] Speaker 2: let's say something like that. And then we have an
[20:46] Speaker 2: editor who cuts all those drawings and makes this reel,
[20:49] Speaker 2: and then we have temp music, temp dialogue, temp effects, sounds,
[20:54] Speaker 2: and we basically just mock up the film that we
[20:57] Speaker 2: envision for the final and that is what keeps getting
[21:01] Speaker 2: updated and reviewed until it is ready to be animated.
[21:05] Speaker 2: And so during that process, we pick a song that
[21:08] Speaker 2: is already existing in the world, so a pop song,
[21:11] Speaker 2: and we'll drop it into the moment just for vibes
[21:14] Speaker 2: to see if this is the right kind of song
[21:17] Speaker 2: that we want. So based on that song, we will
[21:20] Speaker 2: create an original song that is more in tune with
[21:23] Speaker 2: what we would like it to kind of be emotionally
[21:27] Speaker 2: and suiting the story right.
[21:28] Speaker 1: So in a way, maybe it's not the right thing
[21:31] Speaker 1: to think of it as a soundtrack. You are thinking
[21:33] Speaker 1: of the songs as an integral part of the story
[21:36] Speaker 1: and I think we see that in Golden because there's
[21:39] Speaker 1: a moment within it which is a kind of darker
[21:42] Speaker 1: or troubled moment.
[21:45] Speaker 2: For me, it is so lot of breakfast world Now
[21:49] Speaker 2: to wake up, I feel like me. Yes, we make
[21:54] Speaker 2: these long written documents, and for Golden it was about
[21:58] Speaker 2: six pages, and it was very late in the process
[22:00] Speaker 2: that we realized that Golden needed to be a song
[22:02] Speaker 2: that just gave us a little clue of each of
[22:04] Speaker 2: the girls backstories. No mohiding, now be shin. So we
[22:10] Speaker 2: would write that down and write a backstory for Mira,
[22:14] Speaker 2: for Zoe, for Roumy. The song is about we are
[22:18] Speaker 2: this amazing group of women. We are this amazing group Punterricks,
[22:25] Speaker 2: but this is where we came from. We kind of
[22:27] Speaker 2: came from nothing and now we are here, but we
[22:29] Speaker 2: are striving for more. That is really the story of
[22:32] Speaker 2: Golden and then Rumy within that has her own personal story,
[22:36] Speaker 2: and so we would write that in a document very literally,
[22:39] Speaker 2: and then we would hand that off to the lyricists
[22:41] Speaker 2: and it's their job to take a paragraph of just
[22:45] Speaker 2: dry information and distill it down into I don't know,
[22:49] Speaker 2: twenty words that are like pop lyrics, and that's you know,
[22:53] Speaker 2: that's a very hard job to do. And then the
[22:56] Speaker 2: track is also made at the same time, and we
[22:58] Speaker 2: listen to a few tracks, and Chris and I didn't
[23:01] Speaker 2: really approve any song until we felt the tingles, like
[23:05] Speaker 2: the butterflies in our stomach, because that is also the
[23:09] Speaker 2: whole point of this movie is to show that music
[23:12] Speaker 2: has this power to make us feel. So those things come.
[23:22] Speaker 1: Together, Chris Applehans your co directors directly, Yeah, absolutely, at
[23:27] Speaker 1: the heart of this. One of the important things about
[23:31] Speaker 1: this is that your characters are away from stereotypes about
[23:36] Speaker 1: race and Asian characters that we still see often in movies,
[23:39] Speaker 1: like they're very studious or they're like model, you know,
[23:43] Speaker 1: model people without flaws. But I did want to ask
[23:46] Speaker 1: you one thing about the portrayal of women, because they
[23:49] Speaker 1: are really strong, complex, interesting women. They're all drawn very thin,
[23:56] Speaker 1: as female characters tend to be. Why is that? Could
[24:01] Speaker 1: you did you think about drawing them differently?
[24:03] Speaker 2: We did, but you know, we we were very much
[24:06] Speaker 2: on the aesthetics of the film. We were very much
[24:09] Speaker 2: inspired by anime films, so we just leaned into those aesthetics.
[24:14] Speaker 2: We are just fans of that kind of d style
[24:17] Speaker 2: of Sailor Moon, Cowboy Bebop, and those are the kind
[24:20] Speaker 2: of anime films that we grew up with. So it's
[24:22] Speaker 2: a homage to those designs.
[24:24] Speaker 1: But given you have all of these girls, young women watching.
[24:30] Speaker 2: Yes, but you know, within those characters, we worked very
[24:34] Speaker 2: hard to distinguish them, and I think Zoe in particular,
[24:38] Speaker 2: you know, we gave her a little thicker legs and
[24:40] Speaker 2: a bottom, and so we do we do. We do
[24:44] Speaker 2: feel like we hit those those little differences.
[24:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the film's come out at a moment
[24:50] Speaker 1: where the world is in the midst of well. Mark
[24:56] Speaker 1: Conney when he came on this podcast said, in the
[24:59] Speaker 1: middle of a and your characters are trying to save
[25:03] Speaker 1: their world, right, the demons that they're slaying are trying
[25:07] Speaker 1: to destroy everything around them.
[25:10] Speaker 2: How do you feel.
[25:11] Speaker 1: About the way that audiences will be seeing it at
[25:15] Speaker 1: this moment in time, given what we're seeing unfold.
[25:20] Speaker 2: So, when we were very deep into the writing process,
[25:24] Speaker 2: even in the first draft, the movie ended with this
[25:26] Speaker 2: big concert numbers a long dodging, and we knew that
[25:33] Speaker 2: it would be a performance where the girls would start
[25:37] Speaker 2: kind of be reunited, and the final kind of stage
[25:42] Speaker 2: would be the entire stadium full of fans contributing into
[25:46] Speaker 2: the song and singing to defeat the demons. Done hiding
[25:52] Speaker 2: now shine like Go, And you know, we kind of
[25:59] Speaker 2: worried was a little cheesy, and it was a little
[26:02] Speaker 2: cheesy to make a movie about the power of music.
[26:13] Speaker 2: But it was during COVID time and a lot of groups,
[26:16] Speaker 2: especially BTS specifically, had this online concert where they would
[26:22] Speaker 2: perform and I don't know, millions of people around the
[26:27] Speaker 2: world were tuning in to watch this one concert, and
[26:29] Speaker 2: I remember there was a shot where they are on
[26:31] Speaker 2: the stage and the back behind them there were all
[26:35] Speaker 2: these faces of the audience that were tuning in, and
[26:38] Speaker 2: it was just incredible to see, even in the dark
[26:42] Speaker 2: time like COVID, where we were all huddled in our
[26:44] Speaker 2: own private spaces, that there was this unifying force of
[26:49] Speaker 2: music just uniting people and bringing joy to people at
[26:52] Speaker 2: this dark time. And that really told us that this
[26:56] Speaker 2: moment could really land. And so I feel like that
[26:59] Speaker 2: is what's happening now with the release of the movie.
[27:03] Speaker 2: People are kind of coming together and being able to
[27:06] Speaker 2: celebrate and share this experience of this movie with that together,
[27:10] Speaker 2: and I think that's what the movie is doing, and
[27:13] Speaker 2: that's something that only art can really do, is unite people.
[27:17] Speaker 2: No matter what your background is, and no matter if
[27:19] Speaker 2: you don't speak the same language, everybody kind of speaks
[27:22] Speaker 2: the language of music and knows what that feels like. Yeah.
[27:25] Speaker 1: I was thinking listening to the songs, which are English,
[27:29] Speaker 1: but they've got words and phrases of Korean in them
[27:33] Speaker 1: that people are singing along and there are words they
[27:35] Speaker 1: might not understand within the song and it doesn't matter
[27:37] Speaker 1: they can still enjoy it. And what a contrast that
[27:40] Speaker 1: is to something like the Super Bowl, which we've just seen,
[27:42] Speaker 1: where the use of Spanish is to some people really controversial.
[27:46] Speaker 1: You know.
[27:46] Speaker 2: I just feel like art just speaks to you no
[27:49] Speaker 2: matter what language it is, and I think that's the
[27:52] Speaker 2: beauty of art, and so we just really should embrace that. Yeah,
[27:57] Speaker 2: it's just such a powerful medium.
[27:59] Speaker 1: And you, I mean, you were a fan of k
[28:02] Speaker 1: pop or it was part of your tradition long before
[28:05] Speaker 1: the rest of the world had discovered it. You were
[28:07] Speaker 1: born in the nineteen eighties, and have you through this
[28:12] Speaker 1: helped deliver a key moment for K pop, which is
[28:15] Speaker 1: also about further opening this gateway to its growth in
[28:20] Speaker 1: the rest of the world.
[28:22] Speaker 2: That's what they tell me. I've met a lot of
[28:25] Speaker 2: the labels. There's four major labels of K pop in Korea,
[28:29] Speaker 2: and I've met with all of them, and they're so
[28:33] Speaker 2: grateful that K pop is just kind of reached another level,
[28:38] Speaker 2: I think. And there's so many fans that I meet
[28:40] Speaker 2: that tell me I didn't even know what K pop
[28:43] Speaker 2: was or I had no interest in it, and this
[28:45] Speaker 2: movie really let me down a path of K pop
[28:48] Speaker 2: and now I'm a big fan, and the fandom allows
[28:52] Speaker 2: them not just to enjoy the music, but just want
[28:55] Speaker 2: to learn more about the culture and experience other K
[28:59] Speaker 2: content like the movies or K beauty or K food,
[29:04] Speaker 2: and so I think it's just a beautiful way for
[29:06] Speaker 2: people to just find our culture. So yes, I definitely
[29:09] Speaker 2: feel like it's helped K pop, but also just other
[29:12] Speaker 2: aspects of our culture as well.
[29:14] Speaker 1: Yeah, and you've been very deliberate about it because obviously
[29:16] Speaker 1: K pop is in the title of the film, and
[29:19] Speaker 1: that would have been a draw to many people who
[29:21] Speaker 1: know what it is, but it could have been a
[29:23] Speaker 1: barrier to others. So in a way, you took a
[29:26] Speaker 1: risk by doing that.
[29:28] Speaker 2: Yes, we did. Yes, we talked about that for about
[29:30] Speaker 2: a year while we were finishing up the movie, what
[29:34] Speaker 2: the title could be, because this was always the working
[29:36] Speaker 2: title of the movie. But we went down a lot
[29:39] Speaker 2: of different routes with the title, but we couldn't land
[29:42] Speaker 2: on anything that felt right. So ultimately we just landed
[29:47] Speaker 2: back on the working title. And you know, it's a
[29:50] Speaker 2: little it's a little cheesy, I have to admit it
[29:53] Speaker 2: really is, but I think that's what the movie is
[29:55] Speaker 2: a little bit there's some kind of silly moments to
[29:59] Speaker 2: the film. Tonally is a mashup of a lot of
[30:02] Speaker 2: different things, and it's a little cookie and because of that,
[30:06] Speaker 2: I think the title kind of fits it.
[30:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it definitely the title does what it says right, That.
[30:12] Speaker 2: Is the film also despite the title.
[30:14] Speaker 1: These are the elements of the film despite the title.
[30:15] Speaker 2: I feel like people and I've been told that as well.
[30:18] Speaker 2: It's like I didn't want to watch it because of
[30:20] Speaker 2: the title.
[30:20] Speaker 1: But there must be some vindication for you, Maggie in that.
[30:27] Speaker 1: One of the great things about this is that people
[30:29] Speaker 1: weren't really expecting it to be the runaway success that
[30:32] Speaker 1: it was. Right. A lot of retailers didn't buy into
[30:34] Speaker 1: the merchandise. They're like catching up with the merchandise. Sony
[30:38] Speaker 1: made it, but sold the rights to Netflix. Other people
[30:42] Speaker 1: it's Sony who are regretting that.
[30:45] Speaker 2: Maybe. I mean, we produced a movie at Sony, so
[30:49] Speaker 2: I think we're all celebrating the movie and the success there.
[30:53] Speaker 2: But yes, we were definitely the underdog. There was no
[30:56] Speaker 2: marketing for the movie, and I think we were fortunate
[31:00] Speaker 2: to have a really good trailer that really told the
[31:02] Speaker 2: audience what the movie was. Going to be and what
[31:05] Speaker 2: the tone of the movie was going to be. And
[31:07] Speaker 2: you know, when you're an underdog, you don't have a
[31:09] Speaker 2: lot of eyes on you, so you can get away
[31:12] Speaker 2: with some things. And that's what some of my director
[31:14] Speaker 2: friends asked me. They said, how did you get away
[31:16] Speaker 2: with some of these things that you did in the movie.
[31:19] Speaker 2: But you know, we had a we had a core
[31:22] Speaker 2: group from the very beginning, and one of them was
[31:25] Speaker 2: Christine Belsen, the president of Sony Animation. She was a
[31:28] Speaker 2: firm believer in this film and really supported it so
[31:32] Speaker 2: and those word of the fans.
[31:33] Speaker 1: But there must have been frustrations along the way, right,
[31:36] Speaker 1: I'm just imagining you've pulled your heart and soul into
[31:38] Speaker 1: the film, and then you don't have a marketing budget,
[31:40] Speaker 1: or much of a marketing budget, you know. I mean,
[31:43] Speaker 1: that's gotta be tough. At the time, it.
[31:46] Speaker 2: Was, it was tough. It was it was really tough.
[31:49] Speaker 2: But it was just tough all the way through. But
[31:52] Speaker 2: I always thought back to the moment where I knew
[31:56] Speaker 2: that we got the green light, and that happened during
[31:59] Speaker 2: COVID and it was during a time where the movie
[32:02] Speaker 2: industry was already pretty uncertain and putting movies in theaters
[32:06] Speaker 2: was a little uncertain, and COVID made that even worse.
[32:09] Speaker 2: But then to be given an opportunity during those hard
[32:13] Speaker 2: times to make a movie, let alone a personal film
[32:17] Speaker 2: about my own culture, an original that's not a sequel,
[32:21] Speaker 2: And so I was just grateful to just complete a
[32:24] Speaker 2: film and to release it. And I believed in the movie.
[32:29] Speaker 2: When we finished, I really loved the movie myself and
[32:33] Speaker 2: our team did too, and so we really believed that
[32:36] Speaker 2: if an audience will find it, then it could do okay.
[32:39] Speaker 2: And they did. They found it right away.
[32:43] Speaker 1: So would you have liked it to be in Cinema's
[32:47] Speaker 1: movie theaters for longer, Maggie, because the future of those
[32:51] Speaker 1: places depends on having the films that get people in
[32:55] Speaker 1: the door and the sing along release. It was a
[32:58] Speaker 1: very short time people could see it on the big screen.
[33:01] Speaker 2: Yes, As somebody who's working in Hollywood, you know, we
[33:05] Speaker 2: don't want to see theaters die. I think that experience
[33:09] Speaker 2: is unlike anything else. It's like going to a concert.
[33:12] Speaker 2: You're sharing art with strangers and you're connecting with them,
[33:16] Speaker 2: even though you know you might may not be talking
[33:18] Speaker 2: to people that are sitting next to you. There's something
[33:20] Speaker 2: about being around fellow humans and experiencing something new and
[33:25] Speaker 2: learning something new. A theater experience is unlike anything else,
[33:29] Speaker 2: so I would hate to see that disappear. But with
[33:33] Speaker 2: that said, the way that people are consuming content, especially
[33:37] Speaker 2: the younger generations, has changed. We tend to absorb content
[33:41] Speaker 2: on our phones and our iPads all alone, and without
[33:44] Speaker 2: the fans, A movie like this that's on a streaming
[33:46] Speaker 2: platform couldn't have gotten this big. It was all word
[33:48] Speaker 2: of mouth and content being created by the fans and
[33:52] Speaker 2: that being shared and talked about on social media. So
[33:56] Speaker 2: I don't know. It's still a big question mark for me,
[33:59] Speaker 2: but I do think think that two can coexist, and
[34:01] Speaker 2: I would love to see a world where that could happen.
[34:03] Speaker 1: Well maybe this, maybe what you've done, might make someone
[34:06] Speaker 1: like Ted Surroundels and Netflix think that what he said
[34:09] Speaker 1: about the movie theater being outmoaded is not necessarily right.
[34:13] Speaker 2: Yes, I'll try to talk to Ted about that.
[34:20] Speaker 1: Speaking of fans, I love the way that the film
[34:22] Speaker 1: has fans like you know, Hunterricks fans right at the
[34:25] Speaker 1: heart of it. And then you're talking now about the
[34:28] Speaker 1: fans of the film and of you, So do you
[34:32] Speaker 1: have a message for them about what is going to
[34:35] Speaker 1: come next? What is the next iteration of K pop
[34:38] Speaker 1: Demon Hunters from Maggie kang.
[34:42] Speaker 2: Oh. I don't know. I don't know what I will
[34:45] Speaker 2: do next. I really don't. I can't really share that
[34:47] Speaker 2: at the moment.
[34:48] Speaker 1: But there's a sequel, surely, I mean I.
[34:52] Speaker 2: Can't really say that officially, but I would say I
[34:55] Speaker 2: would be shocked if I mean, in a world where
[34:58] Speaker 2: that loves sequels, I don't think gets a surprise that
[35:01] Speaker 2: something something else could be coming. But I don't know.
[35:05] Speaker 2: It's going to be a long wait for anything, unfortunately,
[35:08] Speaker 2: because animation just takes Animation just takes a long time.
[35:11] Speaker 1: It's just does it have to be animation? What about
[35:15] Speaker 1: a live action version?
[35:18] Speaker 2: I really think there's so much that the animation medium
[35:21] Speaker 2: brings to the film. The tone of the movie, the
[35:25] Speaker 2: types of characters that we were able to create, the
[35:27] Speaker 2: type of comedy that we were able to push, the drama.
[35:32] Speaker 2: So I firmly believe that the movie couldn't have seen
[35:35] Speaker 2: the success if it was live action, and so because
[35:38] Speaker 2: of that, I would like to stick to animation. But
[35:41] Speaker 2: also that is why I love animation. I aspire to
[35:44] Speaker 2: also do live action someday, But there are two very
[35:48] Speaker 2: different mediums, and animation is globally successful and is able
[35:54] Speaker 2: to be successful with multiple demographics for a reason, and
[35:58] Speaker 2: I truly believe that it's special medium that in many
[36:02] Speaker 2: ways can be just so much more impactful than live action.
[36:05] Speaker 1: Well what else could be part of this ecosystem? I
[36:07] Speaker 1: wonder if you dream of a franchise like the Marvel films,
[36:12] Speaker 1: or if you're thinking about live events like Bridgitton have,
[36:17] Speaker 1: and you know, there are so many dimensions that you
[36:20] Speaker 1: could take great characters and storytelling in. What do you
[36:24] Speaker 1: dream of?
[36:25] Speaker 2: Yeah? There is, And I think it's every filmmaker's dream
[36:28] Speaker 2: to have an IP that can live for generations and
[36:32] Speaker 2: we can share with our children like The Little Mermaid
[36:35] Speaker 2: and Lion King and Frozen. So that's always a dream.
[36:38] Speaker 2: So I'd love to see that. Yeah, we have a
[36:41] Speaker 2: light merch coming up, which is very exciting for the
[36:43] Speaker 2: fans too.
[36:44] Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, again, that's catch up, right because people did
[36:47] Speaker 1: not necessarily order it early on. What about the impact
[36:51] Speaker 1: on you, Maggie, if I'd met you this time last year,
[36:55] Speaker 1: how different a person were you before this huge thing
[36:59] Speaker 1: that you've created hit the world.
[37:02] Speaker 2: You know, I feel like I'm still very grounded, Like
[37:05] Speaker 2: this whole experience has been amazing, but I'm still at
[37:09] Speaker 2: heart a storyteller and a creator. And although this Awards
[37:13] Speaker 2: run has been amazing and fun, I just can't wait
[37:16] Speaker 2: to dive right back into another movie and figure something.
[37:20] Speaker 1: Out for the world to share into the sequel I'm imagining.
[37:26] Speaker 2: I'm sure that's what a lot of people hope.
[37:30] Speaker 1: And how are you preparing for Oscar night?
[37:33] Speaker 2: Well?
[37:33] Speaker 1: Will you be nervous? Will you be apprehensive before a big,
[37:37] Speaker 1: big moment like that?
[37:38] Speaker 2: Oh? You know, I hadn't really been thinking about it,
[37:42] Speaker 2: but yesterday we had the Oscars luncheon where we celebrated
[37:47] Speaker 2: every single nominee and that was really special. I didn't
[37:50] Speaker 2: I actually didn't know that that was part of the
[37:51] Speaker 2: program where they announced every person individually and when your
[37:56] Speaker 2: name is called, you go and stand and that's where
[37:58] Speaker 2: they place you for that big class koto And it
[38:00] Speaker 2: was such a special moment. And it's so amazing to
[38:03] Speaker 2: just share that moment with fellow nominees and get to
[38:06] Speaker 2: know them and meet them. And I think that really
[38:10] Speaker 2: told me, like, Wow, you aren't going to the Oscars
[38:12] Speaker 2: this event that you've been watching on TV with your
[38:15] Speaker 2: family for for decades. You will be going there and
[38:19] Speaker 2: you may go on that stage. And that just really
[38:22] Speaker 2: hit me, made it really real. So I'm just going
[38:24] Speaker 2: to enjoy every single moment, every single second of it,
[38:28] Speaker 2: and I'm just very excited to be part of that,
[38:32] Speaker 2: this legacy of the Oscars and get into history books
[38:36] Speaker 2: no matter what happens on March fifteenth. You know, me
[38:40] Speaker 2: and K Pop Team Minutors are on there, you know,
[38:43] Speaker 2: so I'm very proud of that.
[38:45] Speaker 1: I suspect it won't be the only time that you
[38:48] Speaker 1: go to the Oscars as a nominee.
[38:51] Speaker 2: I hope, I hope. I hope to see the same
[38:53] Speaker 2: success with a live action movie.
[38:56] Speaker 1: Yes, one day. Very best of luck for the Oscar. Maggie,
[39:00] Speaker 1: thank you for talking to us, Thank you, thank you
[39:02] Speaker 1: so much, And there she goes onwards to the Oscars.
[39:10] Speaker 1: By the way, do listen out for news of any sequel,
[39:13] Speaker 1: because it is very much a live discussion for fans
[39:16] Speaker 1: and the industry, and it seems pretty clear from what
[39:19] Speaker 1: Maggie said there will be one. The question is when,
[39:24] Speaker 1: and that's where we leave things this week. Our email
[39:28] Speaker 1: is Michelle's show at Bloomberg dot Net. That's the way
[39:32] Speaker 1: you can let us know what you thought of this conversation,
[39:35] Speaker 1: or others, or who you'd like to hear me speaking
[39:38] Speaker 1: to next. Also, don't forget you can watch the whole
[39:41] Speaker 1: episode on YouTube, and you can find a version to
[39:45] Speaker 1: read with photos and my notes at bloomberg dot com
[39:49] Speaker 1: Slash Weekend. The show's producers are Jessica Beck and Chris Martlu.
[39:55] Speaker 1: The video producer is Andy Haywood. Social media is by
[39:59] Speaker 1: Alex Morgan. Production support from Jennifer Seeley, Audio mixing and
[40:04] Speaker 1: editing by Richard Ward. Our music is by Bart Walshaw,
[40:09] Speaker 1: and the executive producer is Louisa Lewis. We're part of
[40:13] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Weekend, where Brendan Francis Newnham is Editorial director of
[40:18] Speaker 1: Audio and Special Projects, and our executive editor is Catherine Bell.
[40:24] Speaker 1: Until next time, goodbye,

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