# 2025-07-28 LIVE DEBATE \[Jesus was a Liar and a Fraud\]

An episode of [Deconstruction Zone](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1837730286), 28 Sep 2025, 5 h 13 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/67798383/2025_07_28_live_debate_jesus_was_a_liar_and_a_fraud.mp3

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## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Okay, and now I'm live hopefully on both YouTube channels.
[0:07] Speaker 1: It would be good to go there. Fantastic and we're
[0:11] Speaker 1: ready to rock and roll again. Oh yeah, friends, hell yeah. Okay,
[0:15] Speaker 1: so we're ready to rock and roll. I apologize for
[0:19] Speaker 1: the hiccup. I will apparently in the future, I will
[0:24] Speaker 1: not be streaming four K on vertical. Four K on
[0:28] Speaker 1: vertical appears to be too much. That's my apologies. Now
[0:33] Speaker 1: before I because I had to create two new streams.
[0:37] Speaker 1: I've got a bunch of super chests I think didn't
[0:39] Speaker 1: get read. Let me grab like the top ten superchats
[0:42] Speaker 1: because some people paid some money to get these super
[0:45] Speaker 1: chats up here, and then we'll get the next guest
[0:49] Speaker 1: right in. We'll get the next guest right in. Cody,
[0:51] Speaker 1: thank you for the gifts on TikTok. I appreciate that.
[0:53] Speaker 1: Patrick says Sicilianism a new religion. My Domina is God
[0:58] Speaker 1: and she is real. I have actual proof. Just look
[1:01] Speaker 1: at my trashed Okay, I would love to hear I'd
[1:06] Speaker 1: love to hear more about it. Tell me more about Sicilianism.
[1:09] Speaker 1: Do you sing the song Secilia? Just curious Drifter says
[1:13] Speaker 1: he's religious, will pull curtains over their insecurities and call
[1:16] Speaker 1: the curtains truth to make their claims believable to them. Meanwhile,
[1:19] Speaker 1: their unread Bible is gathering dust. Isn't it crazy that
[1:23] Speaker 1: Christians have a book they believe that God literally wrote
[1:26] Speaker 1: for them. In fact, when I was in Bible College,
[1:28] Speaker 1: someone said it's like a love letter from God. They
[1:30] Speaker 1: won't read the fucker. It's crazy. Flux, thank you for
[1:33] Speaker 1: the ten dollar l to g Man. Yes, we should
[1:37] Speaker 1: change his name to l Man because he takes nothing
[1:39] Speaker 1: but else and Snipe says g Man is just really
[1:42] Speaker 1: crying out for help. I'm starting a GoFundMe for him
[1:45] Speaker 1: for an entire greenhouse full of plans to follow him
[1:48] Speaker 1: around and make up for the oxygen he's stealing. That's unbelievable.
[1:54] Speaker 1: That is unbelievable. I appreciate that. By the way, I
[1:55] Speaker 1: don't know if you knew this. Somebody on YouTube did
[1:58] Speaker 1: make a greenhouse with no oxygen in it to see
[2:03] Speaker 1: how many plants and how much plant life you need
[2:06] Speaker 1: in there to create oxygen just for one human being
[2:09] Speaker 1: to survive indefinitely. It's an amazing video. Flox says yap Man.
[2:13] Speaker 1: Thank you for that. Ten dollars super tight, and you're right.
[2:15] Speaker 1: He is a yap man, not a g man. He's
[2:18] Speaker 1: a yap man. And Patty, thank you for the nineteen
[2:21] Speaker 1: ninety nine super thanks. I really appreciate that. That's super generous.
[2:25] Speaker 1: And Yoda says. G Man is a where's my Hug guy?
[2:28] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, at church? I bet he is. Where's my hug?
[2:32] Speaker 1: Raised by a single mom, his attitude shows it and
[2:35] Speaker 1: me and my mom was single. In a minute, he
[2:38] Speaker 1: smacks his lips and says, you're about to make me
[2:40] Speaker 1: mad anytime he's slightly confronted. Soft as a ten ply, Yes,
[2:44] Speaker 1: he is tenfly. He's a million percent ten fly. And
[2:48] Speaker 1: for those of you who don't know the reference, sometimes
[2:50] Speaker 1: tenply refers to garbage bags, that means it's strong. Ten
[2:54] Speaker 1: ply here refers to toilet paper, which means he's soft.
[2:57] Speaker 1: He's soft like tenply. And Tom Gregory thank you for
[2:59] Speaker 1: the twenty five dollars super chest says justin Sorry, I
[3:02] Speaker 1: tuned in late. G Man is starting to make me sorry.
[3:05] Speaker 1: I tuned in. In my opinion, g Man thinks if
[3:08] Speaker 1: he talks over anyone or someone and keep saying you're wrong,
[3:11] Speaker 1: makes him right. Junior high school debating. I know he
[3:15] Speaker 1: gets I've never seen someone take so many l's as
[3:17] Speaker 1: much as g Man and still think he's cooking. It's crazy, Skeptics,
[3:22] Speaker 1: thank you for the ten that super Jest says, happy
[3:23] Speaker 1: to hear you're appearing on the line again. If this
[3:26] Speaker 1: becomes a pattern, hopefully we'll get an opportunity to host together.
[3:29] Speaker 1: I would love to Skeptics. I'm hoping that is the
[3:33] Speaker 1: case to get more regular appearances on the line. I
[3:35] Speaker 1: know Forrest is trying to get me on with him
[3:38] Speaker 1: sometime as well. We just have to wait for it
[3:40] Speaker 1: to happen. And Drifter says, I was cracking crudely under
[3:43] Speaker 1: the Nordic Spice, but they striked my channel and I
[3:46] Speaker 1: lost three thousand subs. I've joined again on this channel.
[3:50] Speaker 1: In philbro words, fluff equals alphabet equals salad equals energy
[3:54] Speaker 1: equals holy equals grace, Hail the Doug Well. I appreciate that. Drifter,
[3:58] Speaker 1: thank you for being a member, and thank you for subscribing.
[4:01] Speaker 1: And last one from Born to Offend, thank you for
[4:04] Speaker 1: the twenty dollars super Chat. It's huge, So I just
[4:06] Speaker 1: wanted to thank you for helping me gain courage in
[4:10] Speaker 1: speaking about deconstructing. After forty three years as a believer,
[4:14] Speaker 1: I ripped off the band aid and told my youth pastor,
[4:16] Speaker 1: my youth pastor's son, that I've completely deconstructed from Christianity.
[4:21] Speaker 1: And that's huge. That's a super difficult thing to do
[4:24] Speaker 1: to like we would refer to it typically as like
[4:27] Speaker 1: coming out of the closet, but to come out of
[4:29] Speaker 1: the Christian closet and finally admit to like the people
[4:33] Speaker 1: at church, pastor's pastor's friends and say, listen, I don't
[4:39] Speaker 1: believe this mess anymore. It's super difficult to hear. I'm
[4:43] Speaker 1: super difficult to do. But we're glad to hear that
[4:45] Speaker 1: you're able to get the courage and get it done.
[4:48] Speaker 1: So big w for having the courage to get it done.
[4:51] Speaker 1: And I'm just getting I'm just rearranging real quick. And
[4:55] Speaker 1: now that I got the new streams open, I'm just
[4:56] Speaker 1: rearranging the windows so that I can get the chat
[5:01] Speaker 1: windows open and I can see who's chatting, and so
[5:04] Speaker 1: I can get our next guest in here. All right,
[5:09] Speaker 1: we should be ready to rock and roll, but being
[5:14] Speaker 1: a bout of boom and we rock and roll. All right.
[5:17] Speaker 1: If you're watching on TikTok, you know how to hit
[5:20] Speaker 1: that guess your question. If you're watching on YouTube, you
[5:23] Speaker 1: can click the link in the description of the video
[5:25] Speaker 1: and you'll be into the discussion. So we're gonna get
[5:28] Speaker 1: our next guest in here, looks like Born Shaw. How
[5:31] Speaker 1: you doing Born? Hey, I do. I just came across
[5:35] Speaker 1: your content first time. I was just interested.
[5:38] Speaker 2: What do you go by?
[5:39] Speaker 1: Is the deconstruct or deconstruction zone? And are you a
[5:45] Speaker 1: believer or not a believer? I'm a believer, but not
[5:50] Speaker 1: I'm not a Christian. Oh all right, we're just talking
[5:53] Speaker 1: to Christians today. We do start a slight caveat to
[5:59] Speaker 1: your claim here. That's why I kind of do want
[6:02] Speaker 1: to join. So I guess are you a Christian or
[6:04] Speaker 1: not challenging your position?
[6:05] Speaker 2: No?
[6:06] Speaker 1: No, I'm not. I'd be challenging your position of what
[6:08] Speaker 1: you're making a statement of. Do you think that the
[6:11] Speaker 1: Bible is true? Uh? No? Okay, Well we're talking to
[6:16] Speaker 1: Christian who think the Bible's true.
[6:17] Speaker 2: Okay, okay, well maybe some other time.
[6:20] Speaker 1: Then sure, coming back some other time. All right, We'll
[6:24] Speaker 1: move on to our next in que looks like Jack
[6:27] Speaker 1: Jack's been waiting for a minute. Jack, thank you for
[6:30] Speaker 1: your patience. We had a lot of people in the queues,
[6:34] Speaker 1: but we got to you. We got you in. Buddy.
[6:37] Speaker 2: How are you doing today?
[6:38] Speaker 1: Doing good things? For asking? Jack? Are you at least eighteen?
[6:43] Speaker 3: Absolutely, I'm twenty three years old.
[6:46] Speaker 1: Awesome? And are you a believer? Amen? Yes, awesome? And
[6:51] Speaker 1: are you a believer in Jesus?
[6:53] Speaker 3: Absolutely, He's God, He's the Son of God. Yes, that's
[6:56] Speaker 3: what our faith teaches. I believe from the scriptures.
[7:00] Speaker 1: Yeah. Actually I agree with you on that one. I
[7:02] Speaker 1: think the Trinity is questionable, but being the son of
[7:04] Speaker 1: God is definitely in there.
[7:05] Speaker 2: So absolutely.
[7:07] Speaker 1: Do you agree or disagree with the claim on the
[7:10] Speaker 1: screen that Jesus is a liar and that he's a
[7:14] Speaker 1: fraud and all that, I fully disagree. Yeah.
[7:17] Speaker 3: I mean, for instance, you say that he himself would
[7:21] Speaker 3: not affirm and he would absolutely.
[7:23] Speaker 1: Deny the Trinity. Well, I don't know.
[7:25] Speaker 3: Well, fair, fair, But in the scriptures it says, go therefore,
[7:30] Speaker 3: and this is Matthew twenty eight, go therefore and make
[7:33] Speaker 3: disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of
[7:37] Speaker 3: the Father, of the Father and the Holy Spirit. So
[7:40] Speaker 3: isn't it kind of blasphemous to say three named three
[7:44] Speaker 3: persons if it's with the divine you know, ultimatum you're
[7:47] Speaker 3: trying to reach.
[7:48] Speaker 1: No, I don't think so, because so in the Old
[7:51] Speaker 1: Testament they have this idea of divine emissaries, like the
[7:55] Speaker 1: various angels of Yahweh are divine emissaries that carry the
[7:59] Speaker 1: name of Yahweh way, and so for example, you could
[8:02] Speaker 1: be a divine emissary or you could also be an
[8:06] Speaker 1: adopted son of God. So like in Psalm Too, David
[8:09] Speaker 1: himself says that he is a forgotten son of God. Right,
[8:13] Speaker 1: So I don't believe that this is a trinitarian statement
[8:17] Speaker 1: suggesting that Jesus is God. I'm reading this as more
[8:21] Speaker 1: like he's got the power and authority that God has
[8:24] Speaker 1: granted upon him, much like it says in Daniel seven
[8:27] Speaker 1: and Daniel seven. Remember, the authority is given from God
[8:31] Speaker 1: to this individual. It's not something that he has unless
[8:35] Speaker 1: God gives it to him. And so to me, this
[8:38] Speaker 1: sounds like adoptionism, not trinitarianism.
[8:42] Speaker 3: Okay, I got you, I hear you on that. So
[8:44] Speaker 3: now just real quick to challenge on that. So Yahweh
[8:47] Speaker 3: thought the Father. He is never going to glorify another
[8:51] Speaker 3: below him, right.
[8:52] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's Isaiah. Yeah, very good. He says that he
[8:56] Speaker 1: has got a loan and will share my glory with
[8:58] Speaker 1: no other.
[8:59] Speaker 3: Absolutely perfect. So doesn't Jesus Christ literally say that he
[9:05] Speaker 3: shares glory with the fathers since before the heavens the
[9:08] Speaker 3: earth was created, the heavens before the earth.
[9:11] Speaker 1: Thank you. You've literally pointed out one of the lies
[9:14] Speaker 1: of Jesus, which is that he literally contradicts the Father
[9:18] Speaker 1: because the Father says there's no God before me nor
[9:21] Speaker 1: after me. I share my glory with no other. That
[9:23] Speaker 1: certainly would discount Jesus, how so, because Jesus would be another.
[9:30] Speaker 3: So if God is one singular person, one sinklar being,
[9:35] Speaker 3: that's a possibility that can totally exist if God exists, right,
[9:38] Speaker 3: But it's also completely possible for God to exist as
[9:42] Speaker 3: the singular being that he is, but exists in a
[9:45] Speaker 3: way that we cannot process with great eavese. Isn't that
[9:48] Speaker 3: something that could be, you know, understood a little.
[9:51] Speaker 1: Bit only if you're willing to abandon the laws of logic.
[9:54] Speaker 1: And I don't think I'm ready for that, And I
[9:57] Speaker 1: can kind of run you through a syllogism that I
[9:59] Speaker 1: think demonstrates my point pretty clearly. Absolutely good work, go
[10:04] Speaker 1: for it.
[10:04] Speaker 2: Please.
[10:04] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So we would say, like premise number one,
[10:07] Speaker 1: give me one second. I want to put it on
[10:08] Speaker 1: the screen real quick.
[10:10] Speaker 3: Oh, is there a way that I can see your screen?
[10:12] Speaker 3: Or do I just open up a new tab or whatever,
[10:14] Speaker 3: or what would you think is best?
[10:16] Speaker 1: I don't know. If there is a way for you
[10:18] Speaker 1: to see it, I might be able to send it
[10:20] Speaker 1: to you if you give me one second.
[10:23] Speaker 3: Well, actually, hold on, I'm going to check your YouTube
[10:24] Speaker 3: on my phone and see if I can get kind
[10:26] Speaker 3: of like decently real time.
[10:32] Speaker 1: The problem is, when you put me up on another stream,
[10:36] Speaker 1: we can hear myself talking to myself.
[10:38] Speaker 2: Oh I already turned the volume down. I figured perfect.
[10:41] Speaker 1: Okay, Now if you turn the volume down, I think
[10:42] Speaker 1: we're probably in business, gotcha. Okay, give me one second. Okay,
[10:52] Speaker 1: you might be able to see my screen now, I
[10:54] Speaker 1: just I can. Okay, So premise number one on our
[11:00] Speaker 1: where's my notepad? There we go. Premise number one on
[11:04] Speaker 1: the notepad is that you can't be one hundred percent
[11:07] Speaker 1: God unless you're identical to God. Do we agree or disagree?
[11:12] Speaker 3: Absolutely. And in the Book of Philippians, Jesus is said
[11:16] Speaker 3: to be in very nature God and declare equality with God,
[11:19] Speaker 3: something he doesn't want to do, and he wanted to
[11:21] Speaker 3: humble himself. You can't declare equality in that excellent or
[11:25] Speaker 3: even have that ability to declare it, unless you are
[11:28] Speaker 3: of that nature of divine because he says he comes
[11:31] Speaker 3: from Heaven right yet not from her.
[11:33] Speaker 1: And in Clausans chapter one, in chapter two I think
[11:36] Speaker 1: one sixteen and two nine says that the fullness of
[11:39] Speaker 1: the deity dwelt within him bodily form.
[11:42] Speaker 2: What does the fullness mean?
[11:43] Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to take fullness as being completeness, all
[11:47] Speaker 1: of one hundred percent of.
[11:50] Speaker 2: Okay, absolutely, I totally agree, I definitely.
[11:53] Speaker 3: I don't know how some Christians would hear this, But
[11:55] Speaker 3: I don't believe that Jesus is like thirty three percent
[11:58] Speaker 3: part of God. I believe he's fully God, the son
[12:01] Speaker 3: of God, because only he can glorify the Father if
[12:04] Speaker 3: you are actually of the same nature, and vice versa.
[12:07] Speaker 3: The Father can only glorify himself of his nature because
[12:12] Speaker 3: like we're all evil humans, you know.
[12:14] Speaker 1: So, right, Okay, So premise number one is you can't
[12:17] Speaker 1: be one hundred percent God unless you're identical to God.
[12:20] Speaker 1: Do igorous.
[12:21] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[12:22] Speaker 1: Now, if in fact you are identical to something, I
[12:29] Speaker 1: take that to mean that you must have all of
[12:33] Speaker 1: that thing's attributes.
[12:36] Speaker 2: Unless the roles are specifically told to be different by
[12:39] Speaker 2: the master hierarchical ladder.
[12:43] Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. So, like if you
[12:45] Speaker 1: have one hundred percent of a thing, because remember God
[12:49] Speaker 1: in the Trinitarian worldview, God is a thing, not a category.
[12:55] Speaker 2: Well, his being as a what is exactly right?
[12:58] Speaker 1: It's a it's an identity, not a category. Because if
[13:01] Speaker 1: there's multiple gods, then God can be a category. You
[13:04] Speaker 1: can have multiple gods with multiple personalities, multiple properties. But
[13:09] Speaker 1: if God is one, if there's only one of them,
[13:12] Speaker 1: then that limits your option to God only being a
[13:15] Speaker 1: thing and not a category.
[13:16] Speaker 3: Right, Okay, fair, fair, So whenever what's the Bible verse
[13:21] Speaker 3: where the Lord says, I am the Lord.
[13:23] Speaker 2: Yahweh, I am one.
[13:25] Speaker 3: The Deuteronomy six' Four deuteronomy is six, Four, okay. Gotcha
[13:30] Speaker 3: so Whenever jesus says Before abraham was, BORN i am
[13:35] Speaker 3: or Before abraham WAS i, am isn't That jesus making
[13:39] Speaker 3: some statement claiming to be one eight hundred years old at.
[13:42] Speaker 3: Minimum and also he's attributing the divine name THAT i
[13:46] Speaker 3: can't pronounce.
[13:47] Speaker 1: It but, yeah way you, Know, OH i. AGREE i
[13:50] Speaker 1: think in The gospel Of, john they're Painting jesus to Be. God,
[13:54] Speaker 1: okay so there is definitely reason For christians to arrive
[13:57] Speaker 1: to the Conclusion jesus is fully, divine fully.
[14:00] Speaker 2: Human.
[14:00] Speaker 1: Yes SO i said this earlier that if you read
[14:04] Speaker 1: some verses and ignore, others you can get to a
[14:07] Speaker 1: trinitarian worldview as long as you're willing to throw out.
[14:10] Speaker 1: Logic that's why we're going through the logical premises. Now
[14:13] Speaker 1: so premise number two still is to be identical To,
[14:16] Speaker 1: god Because god's not a, category it's a. Thing to
[14:19] Speaker 1: be identical To, god you have to have all Of god's, attributes.
[14:24] Speaker 3: Gotcha so whenever you think Of, god you think of
[14:27] Speaker 3: something that is completely unseen to the human.
[14:30] Speaker 1: Eye, Right, no it depends on which book of The.
[14:34] Speaker 1: Bible this is where he gets, fishy because in some
[14:37] Speaker 1: of the book of The bible he certainly does have
[14:39] Speaker 1: a visible, body but according to The New, testament he.
[14:42] Speaker 1: Doesn't jesus is the visible manifestation of the Invisible. God
[14:46] Speaker 1: BUT i THINK i don't find that in The Old. Testament, okay.
[14:52] Speaker 3: Gotcha so when it does say that it dwelt in
[14:54] Speaker 3: fullness the presence Within jesus and that he is in
[14:58] Speaker 3: very Nature, god and then it says that he shares
[15:00] Speaker 3: glory pre existing With god and he claims to be
[15:03] Speaker 3: nearly two thousand years old at, Minimum, like doesn't that
[15:07] Speaker 3: add great claims to What jesus is saying and it
[15:10] Speaker 3: doesn't merit him as a.
[15:12] Speaker 1: Liar, no it does because it contradicts What god says
[15:15] Speaker 1: in The Old. Testament in, fact In isaiah the very
[15:18] Speaker 1: like one chapter after the quote you gave From isaiah sixty,
[15:21] Speaker 1: five he literally, says to the name Of yahweh every
[15:24] Speaker 1: knee will. Bow but The New testament says to the
[15:26] Speaker 1: name Of jesus every knee will, bow which is a
[15:28] Speaker 1: direct contradiction and. Blasphemy it's literally blasphemy against the name Of. Yahweh,
[15:34] Speaker 1: now let's finish the syllogism right because point number, three
[15:39] Speaker 1: AND i think is pretty, clear is That jesus lacked
[15:44] Speaker 1: some of the attributes Of.
[15:45] Speaker 2: God agree or, disagree it depends on how you view.
[15:50] Speaker 3: It but, yes that is what we derive from. It
[15:53] Speaker 3: it depends on how you want to interpret how you
[15:55] Speaker 3: get to that.
[15:55] Speaker 1: Conclusion, WELL i mean either did or he didn't have
[16:00] Speaker 1: all Of god's.
[16:01] Speaker 3: Attributes, well it's, take for, instance a Common bible verse
[16:06] Speaker 3: where it, says even, sorry the son Of man does
[16:09] Speaker 3: not know the?
[16:09] Speaker 1: Hour right? Yep all of it? Discourse, yeah, Perfect so.
[16:13] Speaker 3: It says only the father, does, Right, Okay so in
[16:17] Speaker 3: previous verses before, That jesus literally says that he knows
[16:22] Speaker 3: everything and that he is able to read the hearts of.
[16:26] Speaker 3: Man and it also says in previous verses AND i
[16:29] Speaker 3: can pull them up if you certainly want to read.
[16:31] Speaker 3: Them it says one of the servants, DECLARED i have
[16:34] Speaker 3: made it to be known THAT i know nothing except
[16:37] Speaker 3: for this certain. Thing and that's the same word used
[16:40] Speaker 3: to be know to know something that's used When jesus says,
[16:44] Speaker 3: That AND i can pull up.
[16:46] Speaker 1: Evidence, Yeah but the question is Does jesus know the
[16:49] Speaker 1: day or the?
[16:49] Speaker 3: Hour that's something that he knows, OFFICIALLY i don't have
[16:54] Speaker 3: that ability to know that. Knowledge either he certainly does
[16:57] Speaker 3: and he's doing a role that he's not going to reveal,
[16:59] Speaker 3: it or he does not know it because that is his.
[17:03] Speaker 1: Role so if he knows it and he says he
[17:06] Speaker 1: doesn't know, it then he's, lying not.
[17:09] Speaker 3: Lying it has to do with what the word know,
[17:11] Speaker 3: is because that could be MEAN i, sorry it could
[17:14] Speaker 3: be SAID i have decided to know nothing except for.
[17:18] Speaker 3: This that's not. Lying that's simply, saying at this, Moment
[17:21] Speaker 3: i've decided to know nothing except to do this one,
[17:24] Speaker 3: event this one, activity or to go say one specific
[17:28] Speaker 3: type of.
[17:28] Speaker 1: Thing, yeah but clearly he's employing metaphorical. Language he's, saying
[17:33] Speaker 1: the knowledge That i've the knowledge That i've obtained is
[17:37] Speaker 1: of nothing in. Comparison but that's not what's happening in
[17:41] Speaker 1: the ol of it. Discourse they're asking him when he's coming,
[17:45] Speaker 1: back and he says about the day or the, Hour
[17:49] Speaker 1: no one, knows neither the angels of heaven nor the,
[17:51] Speaker 1: son but only The. Father so he's, saying no one
[17:53] Speaker 1: knows except for the.
[17:54] Speaker 3: Father, okay, gotcha gotcha real. Quick so does this say.
[17:58] Speaker 2: The son or is to say the son event says
[18:01] Speaker 2: the son says the?
[18:02] Speaker 3: Son, Okay so are you familiar with the terminology behind
[18:05] Speaker 3: the son of man and what it implies or do
[18:07] Speaker 3: you think it just means, like, oh just, man born Of.
[18:11] Speaker 1: Son The son Of man is A messianic title born
[18:13] Speaker 1: out Of Daniel chapter seven that gets rehashed in The
[18:17] Speaker 1: Dead Sea scrolls in The book Of. Enoch by the
[18:20] Speaker 1: Time jesus comes. Around it's a messianic title referring. To
[18:24] Speaker 1: now my interpretation Of, daniel it's about the, archangel BUT
[18:28] Speaker 1: i understand That christians believed it was About. Jesus but either,
[18:30] Speaker 1: way it's referring to this messianic. Figure and so In,
[18:36] Speaker 1: matthew when we get to the Olive it, discourse he
[18:38] Speaker 1: just says The, son and if he is The son Of,
[18:41] Speaker 1: GOD i assume that's his. Identification here he says that
[18:44] Speaker 1: The son himself doesn't know the day or the, hour
[18:48] Speaker 1: only The, father which means he doesn't know.
[18:50] Speaker 3: Something so you're familiar with the concept of he totally
[18:55] Speaker 3: has the two, natures one side the human, nature one
[18:58] Speaker 3: side of divine.
[18:59] Speaker 1: Nature, Right, WELL i don't think those are.
[19:01] Speaker 3: Compatible so what If jesus says they, Were and what
[19:05] Speaker 3: if they, are then aren't we just denying?
[19:07] Speaker 1: It, well he'd biologically he biologically, wrong which is what
[19:10] Speaker 1: this is What i'm doing with the syllogism right. Now
[19:13] Speaker 1: SO i. Guess so you keep trying to go back
[19:16] Speaker 1: to the teachings Of, jesus but we're still kind of
[19:18] Speaker 1: in the logical. Syllogism and it's.
[19:20] Speaker 3: Because The gospel is kind of illogical and offense of.
[19:24] Speaker 1: SOMETHING i know it's. Illogical i'm agree with. You, Yes
[19:27] Speaker 1: i'm demonstrating.
[19:28] Speaker 3: That like, take for, instance the issue Of greg's people
[19:32] Speaker 3: are going to, say, wait you're saying a murderer or
[19:34] Speaker 3: a serial killer can get into.
[19:35] Speaker 1: Heaven, yes, well let's let's talk about. It we can
[19:38] Speaker 1: talk about heaven and hell the next. Time let's try
[19:40] Speaker 1: to focus on where we're. At So premise number one,
[19:42] Speaker 1: is you cannot be one hundred Percent god unless you
[19:46] Speaker 1: are identical To. God premise number. Two to be identical To,
[19:51] Speaker 1: god you must have all Of god's. Attributes if, not
[19:55] Speaker 1: then you're only part Of. God you're like ninety nine
[19:57] Speaker 1: or eighty Percent. God premise number three Is jesus lacked
[20:01] Speaker 1: some Of god's. Attributes that seems.
[20:02] Speaker 2: Clear, Right, yes what we can, SEE i.
[20:08] Speaker 1: Agree, yes from what we, know from what The bible tells,
[20:11] Speaker 1: us it is true That jesus didn't have all Of
[20:14] Speaker 1: god's attributes In matthew chapter. Six he couldn't heal people
[20:19] Speaker 1: in all of it, discourse he didn't know. Something he's
[20:21] Speaker 1: certainly not. Omnipresent so then what we could say then
[20:25] Speaker 1: is conclusion number, One jesus is Not. God or will
[20:30] Speaker 1: Say jesus is not identical To. God but it still
[20:34] Speaker 1: gets you to the same, conclusion which, Is jesus can't Be.
[20:37] Speaker 1: God he could be A, god but he can't Be.
[20:39] Speaker 1: God so if.
[20:42] Speaker 3: He's A, god then why is you believing in? Him
[20:45] Speaker 3: not believing in The, father.
[20:47] Speaker 2: Specifically in Denying, Jesus but you believe In, jesus then
[20:51] Speaker 2: you get a turn of. Life when you, die you
[20:54] Speaker 2: still live in the other. State why does he say that?
[20:56] Speaker 1: Then because of, this because all authority has been given
[21:00] Speaker 1: to him on heaven and on. Earth but we're Not
[21:03] Speaker 1: we're not critiquing What jesus thought of. Himself i'm just
[21:07] Speaker 1: walking through the logical problem with The. Trinity that's, it,
[21:09] Speaker 1: Right and there's absolutely there is a logical problem with The.
[21:12] Speaker 1: Trinity that's Why paul himself caused a. Mystery, Yes paul
[21:16] Speaker 1: himself said it's a. Mystery, yes Because paul himself can't
[21:19] Speaker 1: make sense of.
[21:20] Speaker 3: IT i, MEAN i don't know if you can pull
[21:23] Speaker 3: the verses up or, anything But i'm pretty certain there's
[21:25] Speaker 3: A bible verse that says you do not know the
[21:28] Speaker 3: ways of the mind of The, lord and you think you,
[21:31] Speaker 3: do but you cannot grasp. IT i would say that
[21:34] Speaker 3: that adds to the full deity dwellness of Who god.
[21:39] Speaker 3: Is AND i, mean what about that verse in The
[21:42] Speaker 3: bible where it, says let's see what it is that
[21:44] Speaker 3: you have not just lied to, man but To. God
[21:47] Speaker 3: and in the context before that it was lying to
[21:50] Speaker 3: The Holy. Spirit doesn't that now say that The Holy
[21:53] Speaker 3: spirit is?
[21:54] Speaker 2: Divine in my?
[21:55] Speaker 1: Mind, yes, well as far As i'm, Concerned like if
[21:58] Speaker 1: we're reading The old test The Holy spirit is The
[22:02] Speaker 1: spirit Of. God SO i don't think of it as
[22:05] Speaker 1: a separate. Entity so for, example like in Classical Greco,
[22:10] Speaker 1: roman thinking, me all of me contains like three. Parts
[22:15] Speaker 1: there's a, mind, body and. Soul, right that was true
[22:19] Speaker 1: necessarily of what it seemed to be what The israelites
[22:22] Speaker 1: The jews believed. In they believed that there were like
[22:25] Speaker 1: multiple components that made up the, whole and they believed
[22:29] Speaker 1: that The Holy spirit was one of those. Components now
[22:33] Speaker 1: they wouldn't have said that a person's spirit was identical
[22:37] Speaker 1: to the rest of. Them they would say it's a
[22:39] Speaker 1: part of. Them but the problem we have there is
[22:42] Speaker 1: partialism is a. Heresy you can't if you try to
[22:46] Speaker 1: apply partialism to The, Trinity you've just walked into one
[22:49] Speaker 1: of the earliest heresies that was condemned By theodosius the
[22:53] Speaker 1: second And. Constantine SO i don't know if that's a great.
[22:57] Speaker 3: Solution so are you able to pull up The bible
[23:02] Speaker 3: verse for everyone to see where it talks about the
[23:04] Speaker 3: word Was god and the word was With.
[23:05] Speaker 2: God and.
[23:08] Speaker 3: Please, yeah, Yeah explain to me how that does not
[23:10] Speaker 3: point to the word becoming, flesh which is what we
[23:13] Speaker 3: know to Be. Jesus how does that not say that
[23:16] Speaker 3: he is outside of all, creation therefore he is fully.
[23:19] Speaker 1: Divine i'm not saying that he's not. Divine What i'm
[23:22] Speaker 1: saying is this results in having multiple deities.
[23:27] Speaker 2: Unless it's one being who is somehow some mystery three.
[23:32] Speaker 1: Persons but that's WHY i, said you can't accept it
[23:35] Speaker 1: unless you abandon, logic And i'm not willing to do.
[23:37] Speaker 1: That i'm clutely.
[23:38] Speaker 3: Understandable it's a difficult thing to accept The. Trinity but it's,
[23:42] Speaker 3: like this goes against WHAT i naturally, think but lots
[23:45] Speaker 3: of things go against what we naturally.
[23:46] Speaker 1: Think, WELL i think it goes against, logic and as
[23:48] Speaker 1: far AS i, KNOW i don't think logic is like.
[23:52] Speaker 1: FALLIBLE i think it. Works but In john, one so
[23:55] Speaker 1: the in the beginning was The, word and the word Was,
[23:56] Speaker 1: god and the Word i'm, sorry the word was With
[23:59] Speaker 1: god and the word Was. God, now interestingly, enough The
[24:02] Speaker 1: mormons read this and they have a possible reading which
[24:05] Speaker 1: works with The. Greek actually it says the word was
[24:08] Speaker 1: With god and The word was A. God and we
[24:11] Speaker 1: do this because we've got a definite article on the
[24:13] Speaker 1: First god and no definite article on the Second. God
[24:16] Speaker 1: so there's multiple ways to read. This BUT i think
[24:18] Speaker 1: both readings ends up with this entity being, divine because
[24:23] Speaker 1: if it's The word Of god and it's Another, god
[24:26] Speaker 1: then it is a divine. Entity the problem is you
[24:29] Speaker 1: have to be willing to accept that there are two,
[24:32] Speaker 1: gods and The mormons don't. Care they're, like, yeah there's two, gods,
[24:35] Speaker 1: right what's the? Problem you know WHAT i?
[24:37] Speaker 2: Mean, NO i totally disagree with.
[24:40] Speaker 1: That The.
[24:40] Speaker 3: MORMONS i don't know if people call Them, christians but
[24:43] Speaker 3: that's certainly Not.
[24:45] Speaker 1: CHRISTIANITY i believe it, is and they would say that
[24:48] Speaker 1: you got it. Wrong so but The christian in. Fighting
[24:51] Speaker 1: i'm not here to defend The. Mormons i'm just saying
[24:53] Speaker 1: THAT i, think based on the, grammar they're reading of
[24:56] Speaker 1: the text as. Plausible so that being, SAID i think
[24:59] Speaker 1: we've worked through some of The trinity and we got
[25:01] Speaker 1: to both of our end. Points the endpoint is for,
[25:03] Speaker 1: ME i rejected because it's. Illogical you're willing to accept
[25:06] Speaker 1: it even though it is. Illogical AND i was in
[25:09] Speaker 1: your shoes ones too WHEN i was A. CHRISTIAN i
[25:11] Speaker 1: was willing to, say, yeah it's. Illogical i'm okay with.
[25:13] Speaker 1: That it's a. Mystery now if you're okay with, that
[25:15] Speaker 1: you're allowed to be okay with.
[25:16] Speaker 3: It can we go to The Old testament real quick
[25:20] Speaker 3: and go to what was?
[25:22] Speaker 1: It what was?
[25:22] Speaker 3: It where it talks about what is? It is It genesis.
[25:28] Speaker 3: Seventeen it's where it talks about the. Donkey, yes because
[25:31] Speaker 3: it was prophesied in The Old testament Where yahweh would
[25:35] Speaker 3: come down and he would be the one to ride the.
[25:38] Speaker 3: Donkey but then we see it was Actually. Jesus who did?
[25:42] Speaker 3: It you, Mean zach claim, maaze could you pull it up? Please,
[25:47] Speaker 3: Yeah i'll pull it up for. You so the prophecy
[25:49] Speaker 3: in Zach ryan nine is about.
[25:52] Speaker 1: King i'll put it on the, screen isn't?
[25:56] Speaker 2: It yahweh. HIMSELF i don't.
[26:00] Speaker 1: It's a. King, yeah, yeah it certainly is a. King
[26:03] Speaker 1: so it says in verse, nine rejoice, greatly o Daughter,
[26:08] Speaker 1: zion shout, aloud oh Daughter, Jerusalem see your king comes to,
[26:12] Speaker 1: you triumphant and. Victorious is he humble and riding on a,
[26:15] Speaker 1: donkey on a, colt the foal of a. Donkey he
[26:18] Speaker 1: will cut off the chariot From ephrium and the war
[26:21] Speaker 1: horse From, jerusalem and the battle bow shall be cut.
[26:23] Speaker 1: Off he should command peace of the, nations and his
[26:25] Speaker 1: dominion shall be from c to, sea from the river
[26:28] Speaker 1: to the ends of the. Earth, so if this is About,
[26:31] Speaker 1: jesus seems like it kind of failed.
[26:33] Speaker 2: It, Okay, Okay so this is this is WHERE i
[26:38] Speaker 2: kind of come with little. Confusion. OKAY i just asked
[26:40] Speaker 2: this to Chat, cheebut AND i actually like chat ChiPT
[26:43] Speaker 2: it's pretty. COOL i asked this question right. Here so
[26:48] Speaker 2: Is jesus claiming to Be god when he rides the,
[26:51] Speaker 2: donkey because yahwe is in the prophecy to come down
[26:54] Speaker 2: and do. IT i didn't see. That so is it
[26:59] Speaker 2: in the content surrounding?
[27:00] Speaker 1: It, No i'm, saying there's No yahweh riding the. Donkey
[27:04] Speaker 1: And zacharya and NINE i, THINK i think it's, Okay
[27:09] Speaker 1: BUT i think you just. Misremembered either this isn't the
[27:12] Speaker 1: passage you're looking, for or you misremembered.
[27:14] Speaker 3: It, Okay so let's see. Here so this is what
[27:18] Speaker 3: it says on the chat To BET's. End, Okay so
[27:20] Speaker 3: this is it, Says, Yes jesus is making a profound
[27:25] Speaker 3: claim to Be god by riding the donkey and fulfilling that.
[27:29] Speaker 3: Prophecy and this is why the event is so. Significant
[27:32] Speaker 3: the prophecy Of zachariah nine nine is about the coming
[27:36] Speaker 3: Of yahweh's. King the prophecy isn't just about any. King
[27:40] Speaker 3: it's About yahweh himself coming To is It zion Or?
[27:43] Speaker 3: ZION i don't know how to pronounce that as a
[27:46] Speaker 3: righteous and saving. King so it seems to me like
[27:51] Speaker 3: what at least what this is saying and what The
[27:54] Speaker 3: bible alludes to. It It's yahweh Or yahweh's king, directly.
[27:58] Speaker 1: Right is the one who says that yaw is. King
[28:00] Speaker 1: you always not Mentioned he's not in.
[28:05] Speaker 3: Here so what's the context of the book Of Zachariah
[28:11] Speaker 3: BECAUSE i haven't read it that, Much i'll be.
[28:12] Speaker 2: Honest.
[28:13] Speaker 1: Yeah So zachary is a really interesting book that was
[28:15] Speaker 1: written after they already came back from, exile so it's pretty.
[28:19] Speaker 1: Late in, fact it even touches the beginning of The greek,
[28:22] Speaker 1: period so it's really. Late and what they were looking
[28:26] Speaker 1: for was finally to have their their empire restored to
[28:32] Speaker 1: what it should have been normally or What god, promised
[28:35] Speaker 1: and so they were hoping for. That that's why we
[28:37] Speaker 1: get these expectation for like a victorious, king right that's
[28:41] Speaker 1: writing on a, donkey and then there's going to be a,
[28:47] Speaker 1: fight even it, says actually this is. Disconnected this is
[28:53] Speaker 1: after the, fight let's. See, yeah so this Is zacharai
[29:00] Speaker 1: nine is just about the war you know that's going to.
[29:03] Speaker 1: Ensue now the war it gets talked about again in
[29:08] Speaker 1: verse chapter ten and in chapter, eleven so you can
[29:11] Speaker 1: read you can read more about that. War so if
[29:14] Speaker 1: we go To zachariah ten we get the restoration. Vision,
[29:21] Speaker 1: sorry it Was zachari. TWELVE i think there we Go jerusalem.
[29:27] Speaker 1: Victory so this is the final. War In zachariah right
[29:30] Speaker 1: says the word of the lords Concerning. Israel let's say
[29:33] Speaker 1: it The lord who stretched out the heavens and founded
[29:36] Speaker 1: the earth and formed the human spirit within. Them, See
[29:38] Speaker 1: i'm about to Make jerusalem a cup of reeling for
[29:41] Speaker 1: all the surrounding, people and it will be Against judah
[29:44] Speaker 1: also in the siege Against. Jerusalem and then he talks
[29:47] Speaker 1: about how he's going to grant judea victory and so
[29:50] Speaker 1: on and so, forth and you, know everyone's gonna repent and.
[29:53] Speaker 1: Whatnot So i'm Reading zachari twelve thinking the war that
[29:59] Speaker 1: is alluded to In zachari nine is being described In zacharai.
[30:04] Speaker 3: Twelve, okay, gotcha, GOTCHA i understand how you right to.
[30:08] Speaker 3: That i'll definitely have to Read zachariah a lot. MORE
[30:12] Speaker 3: i don't read The Old testament too, much and it's
[30:14] Speaker 3: crazy THAT i don't do. THAT i just like reading
[30:16] Speaker 3: the words of you, Know jesus incarnate, directly you, know
[30:20] Speaker 3: because it's they're very profound and, beautiful and there's a
[30:22] Speaker 3: lot Of you definitely find a lot of violence happening
[30:25] Speaker 3: in The Old, testament or wars taking, place or things
[30:28] Speaker 3: that are, like, wow it was that crazy back, then
[30:31] Speaker 3: three thousand years, ago four thousand years.
[30:32] Speaker 1: Ago there's a lot in. There But, jake, listen, MAN
[30:35] Speaker 1: i appreciate you coming. Up you've been super kind and
[30:38] Speaker 1: make let's Said jake is Je. Jack i'm sorry the
[30:42] Speaker 1: text is so small on my. Screen oh you're, Good you're.
[30:45] Speaker 1: Good please accept my deepest apologies for saying that you're.
[30:48] Speaker 3: Fine as A, Christian i'm called to forgive every single
[30:51] Speaker 3: sent against. Me BUT i just wanted to add something real.
[30:54] Speaker 3: Quickly AND i totally understand. That you, know you said
[30:57] Speaker 3: you Were christian for like ten or twenty years or something. Previously, Right,
[31:01] Speaker 3: Okay so do you believe that The bible at least
[31:05] Speaker 3: if you don't want to say the Whole, bible, Fine
[31:07] Speaker 3: but if you want to say The New? Testament is
[31:08] Speaker 3: there things that are in The New testament that teach absolutely,
[31:11] Speaker 3: amazing beautiful.
[31:12] Speaker 1: PRINCIPLES i think there's some good nuggets in. There, OBVIOUSLY
[31:16] Speaker 1: i think there's some horrific stuff in there as, Well
[31:17] Speaker 1: BUT i do think there's some good stuff in. THERE
[31:20] Speaker 1: i really do like like the reframing of like who
[31:24] Speaker 1: is your neighbor with the Good, samaritan where you, know
[31:28] Speaker 1: typically in The Old testament period they would have thought
[31:30] Speaker 1: of those people as your, enemy not your. NEIGHBOR i
[31:34] Speaker 1: certainly do like the idea of, like sell all you
[31:38] Speaker 1: have and give it to the. POOR i think charity
[31:41] Speaker 1: is incredibly, needed AND i do like That jesus was
[31:44] Speaker 1: so much like, listen this life isn't about. Money you
[31:49] Speaker 1: Need you need to focus on other, things, yes not
[31:51] Speaker 1: glory To.
[31:52] Speaker 2: God don't do ungodly.
[31:54] Speaker 3: Things, well, actually could you do me a favor real
[31:56] Speaker 3: quickly and pull Up titus chapter, two verses eleven through.
[31:59] Speaker 3: Twelve even if people don't want to believe in The Lord,
[32:02] Speaker 3: jesus this is a beautiful thing we should all live.
[32:04] Speaker 1: By, honestly it is too eleven and. Twelve, yeah, actually
[32:09] Speaker 1: we find the same thing elsewhere in the writings Of.
[32:13] Speaker 1: PAUL i Think, paul, actually when it comes to, behavior
[32:16] Speaker 1: said a lot more really cool stuff Than, jesus IF
[32:19] Speaker 1: i was just going to be, Honest but he was
[32:22] Speaker 1: also a. Maniac so it says for the grace Of
[32:25] Speaker 1: god has, appeared bringing salvation all training us to renounce
[32:28] Speaker 1: impiety and worldly passions in the present, age to live
[32:34] Speaker 1: that are self, controlled, upright and godly while we wait
[32:36] Speaker 1: for the blessed hope and the manifestation of the glory
[32:39] Speaker 1: of our Great god And, Savior Jesus. Christ.
[32:43] Speaker 2: Amen that sounds.
[32:44] Speaker 3: Beautiful but if the whole world embodied those, principles don't
[32:49] Speaker 3: you think it would be a good thing versus that
[32:50] Speaker 3: everybody just, Thought, oh morality SUBJECTIVE i can just go
[32:53] Speaker 3: murder this person and get their money and no one's
[32:55] Speaker 3: GONNA i might get in trouble IF i get, caught
[32:58] Speaker 3: but it's not actually that.
[32:59] Speaker 1: Wrong, well that's not what subjective morality. Teaches subjective morality
[33:03] Speaker 1: teaches that we have to use our own cognitive faculties
[33:06] Speaker 1: to come to a conclusion as a society what we
[33:10] Speaker 1: think are going to be the parameters that we live.
[33:12] Speaker 1: By AND i like that system much better than the
[33:15] Speaker 1: system laid out by The, bible which, is you have
[33:17] Speaker 1: to obey The. Bible because if that was the, case
[33:19] Speaker 1: If god had the moral system that everyone should, obey
[33:24] Speaker 1: that means it would have been okay to own, slaves
[33:27] Speaker 1: to have. Concubines we would still be doing. Polygamy it
[33:32] Speaker 1: would be, okay.
[33:33] Speaker 3: Absolutely not okay to have. Concubines that's.
[33:35] Speaker 1: Disgusting why wouldn't it. Be god says you can have.
[33:38] Speaker 1: Concubines he. Does can you show Me exus twenty one
[33:42] Speaker 1: rememver grab?
[33:43] Speaker 2: It because from WHAT i, understand whenever what's that guy's name?
[33:48] Speaker 2: King is It King david or is It? Solomon who
[33:50] Speaker 2: had so many?
[33:51] Speaker 1: Wives solomon had the. Most King david had like maybe,
[33:55] Speaker 1: twenty But solomon had one.
[33:57] Speaker 3: Hundreds, YES i personally always found that, disgusting AND i
[34:00] Speaker 3: think that they are very evil, people AND i Think
[34:03] Speaker 3: god used very evil. People and Also, god, yahweh he did, say,
[34:08] Speaker 3: hey do not pursue multiple. Women you're going to fall
[34:11] Speaker 3: from What i'm trying to get you to. Do you
[34:14] Speaker 3: do not need to do. That you only need to
[34:15] Speaker 3: marry one, woman because that's how the design was and
[34:19] Speaker 3: marriage should never separate between one male and one, female
[34:22] Speaker 3: at least that's HOW i understand.
[34:23] Speaker 1: It, well we'll see about. That In exus twenty, One god,
[34:28] Speaker 1: says when a man sells his daughter as a, slave
[34:30] Speaker 1: she shall not go out as the male slaves do
[34:33] Speaker 1: if she does not please her master who designated her for,
[34:36] Speaker 1: himself then he shall let her be. Redeemed he shall
[34:40] Speaker 1: have no right to sell her to a foreign, people
[34:42] Speaker 1: since he has dealt unfairly with. Her if he designates
[34:45] Speaker 1: her for his, son he shall deal with her as a.
[34:48] Speaker 1: Daughter if he takes another wife to, himself he shall
[34:51] Speaker 1: not diminish the, food, clothing and marital rights of the first.
[34:55] Speaker 1: Wife so when you have multiple, wives you're going to
[34:59] Speaker 1: have some of them on multiple. Statuses, now if you
[35:02] Speaker 1: have a wife that you married because you purchased her
[35:05] Speaker 1: as a, slave that's a. Concubine and so you're saying
[35:11] Speaker 1: That god is saying this is a good thing to,
[35:13] Speaker 1: do keep doing, it or it's a standard That he
[35:16] Speaker 1: did at a time three, thousand five thousand years.
[35:18] Speaker 2: Ago which one do we arrived.
[35:20] Speaker 1: TO i think if you're reading the whole, book you
[35:23] Speaker 1: have to conclude That god's completely okay with, it because
[35:26] Speaker 1: he tells you elsewhere in the book to follow these
[35:28] Speaker 1: laws for literally.
[35:29] Speaker 2: Ever can you please go to the book Of Can't
[35:33] Speaker 2: Talk deuteromedy where it talks about the treatment of captive
[35:35] Speaker 2: women and how they what they went through is.
[35:39] Speaker 1: Going to get. Worse if you want to Do deuteronomy twenty.
[35:41] Speaker 1: One i'll listen to.
[35:43] Speaker 2: IT i shouldn't hide from WHAT i.
[35:46] Speaker 1: Believe you let me do this real, Quick, Jack i'm
[35:48] Speaker 1: going to plug in my phone before my better, dies
[35:50] Speaker 1: and then we're going to Read deuteronomy twenty.
[35:52] Speaker 4: One, right she'll.
[36:18] Speaker 1: Be good to, go, now says when you go to,
[36:21] Speaker 1: War when you go out to war against your, enemies
[36:23] Speaker 1: and the lord You're god hands them over to you
[36:25] Speaker 1: and you take them. Captives suppose you see among the
[36:27] Speaker 1: captives a beautiful woman whom you desire and want to,
[36:30] Speaker 1: Marry so you bring her to your. House bring her
[36:34] Speaker 1: home to your. House she shall shave her, head pare her,
[36:36] Speaker 1: nails discard her captive's, garb and remain in her house
[36:39] Speaker 1: a full month mourning her father and. Mother after that
[36:42] Speaker 1: you may go into her and be her, husband and
[36:45] Speaker 1: she shall be your. Wife keep. Kicking but if you
[36:51] Speaker 1: are not satisfied with, her you shall let her go,
[36:53] Speaker 1: free and certainly not sell her for. Money you must
[36:56] Speaker 1: not treat her as a, slave since you have dishonored.
[36:59] Speaker 3: Her so it seems like that's actually a mercy given
[37:05] Speaker 3: to a horrific time.
[37:06] Speaker 2: Period it sounds like. Rape no not at.
[37:10] Speaker 3: All rape would be stuff that's In islam because those
[37:14] Speaker 3: captive women get their families, butchered and then rape does
[37:17] Speaker 3: sex slaves for however, long And muslims will always deny,
[37:21] Speaker 3: this but they'll still defend sex slavery like it's.
[37:23] Speaker 1: Holy do you think women that are captured in war have?
[37:26] Speaker 3: Consent it's definitely not consent LIKE i have right, Now.
[37:31] Speaker 1: And it's certainly not. Now this is Not this is not.
[37:34] Speaker 2: Consensual this is. Rape so you have to prove it's.
[37:39] Speaker 1: Rape But god's good when he says you can. Rape, Sometimes,
[37:42] Speaker 1: no she doesn't say the.
[37:44] Speaker 3: Word it actually says you're supposed. To what does it
[37:46] Speaker 3: say the death penalty if you rape?
[37:48] Speaker 1: Someone Take that is not the. Case there is no
[37:52] Speaker 1: death penalty for. Rape the only death penalty you have
[37:55] Speaker 1: is if you rape a betrothed woman if he's. Unbetrothed
[37:59] Speaker 1: according To Dude roonomy twenty two to twenty, eight all
[38:01] Speaker 1: you got to do is pay the bride price and
[38:02] Speaker 1: marry her and then you're stuck with. Her so let
[38:05] Speaker 1: let's go over this real. Quick this is a woman
[38:07] Speaker 1: captured in. War do you think war captives have?
[38:11] Speaker 3: CONSENT i think it's significantly diminished, Significantly so basically.
[38:16] Speaker 2: It's almost no.
[38:17] Speaker 1: Yeah it is a no yeah. War captives don't have, consent.
[38:22] Speaker 3: But you're so you're operating under the ideology That god
[38:27] Speaker 3: does not want his people to be safe and dig
[38:31] Speaker 3: and have dignity and have value as. Humans because like
[38:34] Speaker 3: if he's coining that, rape well, no, NO i. Know
[38:37] Speaker 3: but if he is, saying oh you can rape, sometimes,
[38:40] Speaker 3: yeah which is, disgusting that's, awful which one says that
[38:44] Speaker 3: he just said it right, here the word rape is not.
[38:47] Speaker 3: There there's No hebrew word for. Rape you're not going
[38:50] Speaker 3: to find it. Ever, Really i'd have to investigate. That
[38:54] Speaker 3: i've never heard of.
[38:54] Speaker 1: It No hebrew word for. Rape so they describe it
[38:58] Speaker 1: when you take a woman against her, will she's your,
[39:01] Speaker 1: captive she's your, prisoner and then you go into. Her
[39:05] Speaker 1: that's called. Rape non consensual sex is.
[39:07] Speaker 2: Rape so if she is supposed to be integrated into
[39:13] Speaker 2: the godly, society that would BE.
[39:15] Speaker 3: I think The israel It's israel people at that time.
[39:18] Speaker 3: Frame what would happen if no marital relations ever.
[39:24] Speaker 2: Happened like those women just would die widows never being
[39:28] Speaker 2: allowed to have.
[39:28] Speaker 1: Relations, well widow is someone who already HAS i mean.
[39:33] Speaker 1: Virgins sorry what repeat? That you could just not murder
[39:38] Speaker 1: their entire family and leave room. Alone why do you
[39:41] Speaker 1: have to capture the women and force them into.
[39:43] Speaker 3: Marriages now that's a fantastic. POINT i love that. Point
[39:47] Speaker 3: And i'm pretty certain that The bible teaches that you
[39:50] Speaker 3: That god killed off all of the really evil bad,
[39:54] Speaker 3: people and he told the people to do that because
[39:57] Speaker 3: they were doing all kinds of disgusting sins and.
[39:59] Speaker 2: Crime, yeah like raping, people ungodly. Things, Sorry So god's.
[40:04] Speaker 1: Like we've got some rape people over. Here make sure
[40:06] Speaker 1: you kill them and rape, them you, know make.
[40:08] Speaker 3: Sure you kill them and then take the women away from,
[40:11] Speaker 3: them rape.
[40:11] Speaker 1: Them, no you have, to she.
[40:15] Speaker 3: Said the word rape isn't there right in The? Hebrew, yeah,
[40:19] Speaker 3: Okay i'm Gonna.
[40:20] Speaker 1: Rape is described, Though like if you just look up
[40:22] Speaker 1: the definition of, rape it's it's pretty. Easy like, says
[40:27] Speaker 1: rape is a form of sexual assault involving sexual intercourse
[40:30] Speaker 1: or other forms of sexual penetration committed without the consent
[40:34] Speaker 1: of the.
[40:34] Speaker 2: Victim that's, evil it's.
[40:36] Speaker 1: Disgusting god says you can do.
[40:38] Speaker 3: It god says you can have a. Wife so it's
[40:41] Speaker 3: a forced arrangement of a captive woman so that diminishes her.
[40:44] Speaker 1: CONSENT a forced arrangement is.
[40:47] Speaker 2: Rape i'm not drawing that conclusion because the god could
[40:54] Speaker 2: be extremely.
[40:55] Speaker 1: Nice it doesn't matter if he's. Nice if she doesn't have,
[40:58] Speaker 1: consent it does not matter if that guy's. Nice it
[41:00] Speaker 1: doesn't even matter if he's got feelings for. It it's called.
[41:02] Speaker 3: Rape what if she falls in love with his? Character
[41:06] Speaker 3: is it still?
[41:06] Speaker 2: Raped?
[41:06] Speaker 1: THEN i think not only is it, rape It's stockholm.
[41:09] Speaker 3: Syndrome Isn't stockholm syndrome where you have to get abused
[41:14] Speaker 3: and mistreated but you still love them because they provided
[41:16] Speaker 3: a certain service for you or some kind of.
[41:19] Speaker 1: Loyalty stockholm syndrome is just when you start to develop
[41:23] Speaker 1: feelings or some level of admiration or connection with your.
[41:26] Speaker 3: Captor, okay so what about if said captor individualist would
[41:32] Speaker 3: be The israelis after the whole war thing just took,
[41:34] Speaker 3: place and they have a captive now the idea that
[41:38] Speaker 3: she gets to go.
[41:39] Speaker 2: Freely if he does.
[41:40] Speaker 3: Not delight in that new, arrangement she is not to be.
[41:42] Speaker 3: Enslaved he waits a full month for, morning all these?
[41:45] Speaker 1: Things is he not? Mean? Well he waits thirty days before.
[41:49] Speaker 3: He these are mercies for where they would just get
[41:54] Speaker 3: raped or, murdered you, know die of, illness die of,
[41:58] Speaker 3: cold die of. Stormy just it'd be, very very bad
[42:02] Speaker 3: if they didn't get integrated into, society would it.
[42:04] Speaker 1: Not it would not and would. Not it would not be.
[42:08] Speaker 1: Bad and that's clear in the last provision of the,
[42:12] Speaker 1: verse which you've already mentioned twice, now which is if
[42:15] Speaker 1: you're not pleased with, her if she doesn't satisfy, you
[42:18] Speaker 1: you can just let her go. Free So god's not
[42:20] Speaker 1: doing this for their their, welfare because if they're not
[42:24] Speaker 1: satisfied with their rape, concubine they can just let them.
[42:27] Speaker 1: Go this is this is about spoils of, war he tells.
[42:34] Speaker 1: You in the prior Chapter deuteronomy, twenty he tells you
[42:37] Speaker 1: these are spoils of. War he, says when you, go
[42:41] Speaker 1: when you draw near to a town to fight against,
[42:42] Speaker 1: it offer it terms of. Peace if it accepts your
[42:45] Speaker 1: terms of peace and surrenders to, you then all the
[42:47] Speaker 1: people in it shall serve you as forced. Labor but
[42:49] Speaker 1: if it does not accept your terms of peace and
[42:51] Speaker 1: makes war against, you then you shall besiege. It and
[42:54] Speaker 1: when The lord. Try god gives it into your. Hand
[42:56] Speaker 1: you shall put all of the mails to the. Sword you, may,
[42:59] Speaker 1: however take as your plunder the, women the, children the,
[43:02] Speaker 1: livestock and everything else in the, town all of its.
[43:05] Speaker 1: Spoil you may enjoy the spoil of your, enemies which
[43:09] Speaker 1: The lord Your god has given. You the women are
[43:11] Speaker 1: spoil of. War that's why In deuteromy twenty one he,
[43:14] Speaker 1: says if you see a woman that is beautiful that you,
[43:19] Speaker 1: Like he didn't say marry all the women to make
[43:21] Speaker 1: sure they're taken care. Of he, says, hey if you
[43:23] Speaker 1: see a hotty toddy among the, captives you can make
[43:26] Speaker 1: her you're, concubine you can go Rapor.
[43:30] Speaker 3: Doesn't it say you have to marry? Them, no with
[43:34] Speaker 3: the treatment of captives in the verse you're looking at in,
[43:36] Speaker 3: deuteromedy you make them your.
[43:38] Speaker 1: Wife that's, rape, yeah.
[43:42] Speaker 2: Or it's a.
[43:42] Speaker 3: Promise. No it's, like, HEY I i understand that you
[43:48] Speaker 3: have that understanding of, it BUT i would like to
[43:51] Speaker 3: just give this little. Example horrific time is. Happening there
[43:56] Speaker 3: is that, slaughter there is that war going. On it's
[43:59] Speaker 3: very very differ going, scary and the, women their families
[44:02] Speaker 3: did get killed and now they're left for. Dead, right that's.
[44:05] Speaker 1: Terrifying so just to be, Sure yahweh says you can
[44:08] Speaker 1: go commit, genocide massacre these, people kidnap their women and
[44:14] Speaker 1: force them into. Marriages you think these are good?
[44:17] Speaker 3: Commands If yahuweh is a truly Good god and these
[44:21] Speaker 3: people are, evil there's taken. Them there's taken the women
[44:25] Speaker 3: from the evil people to bring them to the. TRUTH
[44:28] Speaker 3: i can't say it's. EVIL i can just say it sounds, immoral.
[44:32] Speaker 1: Okay so under what circumstances is it okay to kidnap
[44:37] Speaker 1: women and rape? Them, well give me some.
[44:38] Speaker 2: Conditions it's never okay to rape.
[44:43] Speaker 1: Someone it's. Disgusting but we Do you just said it
[44:45] Speaker 1: was okay in this.
[44:46] Speaker 3: Situation well, no if it's a forced arrangement from captivity
[44:51] Speaker 3: in war, times captivity is a thing that, exists, Right,
[44:53] Speaker 3: okay it's an im moral thing that.
[44:55] Speaker 1: Exists so if the if the people In israel force
[44:58] Speaker 1: The gosens into these, marriages that would be. Okay oh
[45:02] Speaker 1: not at. All, no that's.
[45:03] Speaker 3: Disgusting why not, take for, instance what's going on with Take?
[45:08] Speaker 1: Why oh, no it's Just, Jack i'm so SORRY i
[45:11] Speaker 1: keep doing. That jack why why is that? Wrong if
[45:14] Speaker 1: they do it right?
[45:15] Speaker 2: Now can you repeat the questions slowly one more? Time
[45:19] Speaker 2: if The israelites right, now who are at war With,
[45:22] Speaker 2: gaza went Into, gaza kidnapped the women and forced them into,
[45:28] Speaker 2: marriages would that be a good? Thing? No why because
[45:33] Speaker 2: they're not following the True.
[45:34] Speaker 3: God they're not Being, uh what's THE i don't want
[45:38] Speaker 3: to what you're talking about right?
[45:41] Speaker 1: Now right like twenty? Five, yeah you, know The israelites Worship.
[45:45] Speaker 1: Yahweh these Are yahweh's. People they're part of The Eternal.
[45:48] Speaker 3: Covenant but they don't believe In Jesus christ is the
[45:51] Speaker 3: son Of.
[45:51] Speaker 1: God do? They because he's, not he's a liar of.
[45:55] Speaker 3: Fraud, well well that's your. CLAIM i believe a little bit,
[45:59] Speaker 3: differently but from my belief it's.
[46:01] Speaker 1: Okay so if you do believe In, jesus you can rape,
[46:05] Speaker 1: women but these people didn't in The Old. Testament.
[46:08] Speaker 3: No if you do believe In, jesus and you see
[46:12] Speaker 3: there are enemies among, you and there are people who are,
[46:16] Speaker 3: fighting and death. Happens there are now women who are,
[46:19] Speaker 3: captive and you now bring them over to your, side
[46:22] Speaker 3: and you do have a forced arrangement because they have
[46:25] Speaker 3: no real consent in that, say and you promised to
[46:28] Speaker 3: be their, husband and he promised to take care of,
[46:29] Speaker 3: them and he promised not to enslave. Them they're treated
[46:33] Speaker 3: with full dignity and rights under. That at least that's
[46:36] Speaker 3: WHAT i.
[46:36] Speaker 1: Thought it says if they don't, please you can just
[46:38] Speaker 1: let them. Go there's no promise to take care of.
[46:40] Speaker 3: Them but doesn't it say you can't treat them like a.
[46:43] Speaker 1: Slave says you can't sell them like a slave or
[46:48] Speaker 1: treat them so you can't sell them like a. Slave
[46:52] Speaker 1: so what does sell them like a? Slave imply sell
[46:56] Speaker 1: them like a. Slave slaves are sold for.
[46:59] Speaker 2: Money, yeah that's WHAT i.
[47:01] Speaker 3: Meant how, like how much are we talking about?
[47:03] Speaker 2: Here BECAUSE i don't understand this.
[47:04] Speaker 1: Stuff, whatever the going right for slaves, Is, Jack you're
[47:09] Speaker 1: kind of missing the forest between the trees. Here so
[47:13] Speaker 1: you're saying that as long as you worship the Right,
[47:16] Speaker 1: god it's okay to rape. Women, no rape is always,
[47:20] Speaker 1: Wrong so, no it's not always. Wrong it's right if
[47:23] Speaker 1: you worship the Right. God according to, you.
[47:26] Speaker 3: Well it wouldn't be called rape Because god never commenced the,
[47:28] Speaker 3: rape because he does not have sin in, him nor
[47:31] Speaker 3: does he do any temptations or.
[47:33] Speaker 1: Non consensual sex is Rape jack every. Days there's never
[47:38] Speaker 1: a time where non consensual sex isn't.
[47:40] Speaker 3: Rape if there is a promise to be their husband
[47:44] Speaker 3: after their family, died the, rape that's not.
[47:46] Speaker 1: Rape you murdered the. Family not only is it rapist.
[47:50] Speaker 2: Coercion, well That's god who told them to go kill
[47:54] Speaker 2: these evil. People so it's we have to have the.
[47:57] Speaker 3: Assumption these people are doing really evil things and they are.
[48:00] Speaker 1: Evil and why we have that? Assumption what evil did
[48:03] Speaker 1: the little children? DO i don't. Know, well why are
[48:08] Speaker 1: they out here killing?
[48:09] Speaker 3: Children they are killing the evil people who are engaging
[48:15] Speaker 3: in things like child. Sacrifice they're doing all kinds of.
[48:19] Speaker 3: Bestiality like you, Mentioned.
[48:21] Speaker 1: It's literally not. True in, fact the exact. Opposite it
[48:25] Speaker 1: says that In deuteronomy twenty And deuteronomy, twenty this is
[48:28] Speaker 1: a treatment for all of the cities that are very
[48:31] Speaker 1: far from. You according to The, bible the only people
[48:34] Speaker 1: that are participating in this so called child, sacrifice which
[48:38] Speaker 1: they weren't were The. Canaanites But deuteronomy twenty is not
[48:42] Speaker 1: for The. Canaanites in, Fact i'll read it for. You
[48:44] Speaker 1: deuteronomy twenty is about the people living outside of the,
[48:47] Speaker 1: land because thus you shall treat all the towns that
[48:50] Speaker 1: are very far from, you which are not the towns
[48:53] Speaker 1: of these nations. Here but as for the towns of
[48:55] Speaker 1: these people that The lord Your god has given you as an,
[48:57] Speaker 1: inheritance you must not let anything that breeze remain. Alive,
[49:02] Speaker 1: indeed you shall annihilate, them the Hit, tites The, amorites The,
[49:05] Speaker 1: canaanites and The, parasites and the High bites and The,
[49:08] Speaker 1: jebbizites just as The lord Your god has commanded, you
[49:10] Speaker 1: so that they may not teach you to do all
[49:12] Speaker 1: the abborrant things that they do for their gods and
[49:16] Speaker 1: you and thus and you thus sin against The lord Your.
[49:21] Speaker 1: God so these are not The. Canaanites these are not
[49:23] Speaker 1: the people that you think are doing all the bad
[49:25] Speaker 1: stuff that it's described in The. Bible these are just
[49:27] Speaker 1: people that live far away from. You it's. It and
[49:29] Speaker 1: they're marching out to these people's territories making them slaves or.
[49:34] Speaker 3: Captives that does sound, very very. Terrifying i'll be completely
[49:40] Speaker 3: frank on that.
[49:41] Speaker 1: Seriously So i'm assuming you don't believe in objective. Morals
[49:45] Speaker 1: you believe in divine command, theory which means it's only
[49:48] Speaker 1: just If god tells you to do. It there is
[49:50] Speaker 1: no objective moral.
[49:51] Speaker 3: Code, well, ACTUALLY i believe The Bible versus says we
[49:55] Speaker 3: have the moral law written on our. Heart where LIKE
[49:57] Speaker 3: i feel that's really wrong to do certain.
[49:59] Speaker 1: Things, well that can't be the. Case if you think
[50:01] Speaker 1: it's wrong to kidnap women And god says you, Can.
[50:06] Speaker 3: Well if the people that they were with were evil
[50:09] Speaker 3: or doing something that was completely Against god's. Design god's, saying,
[50:12] Speaker 3: hey those women should not be with us people and
[50:15] Speaker 3: bring them Into.
[50:16] Speaker 1: Israel, yeah do you ever hear the term two wrongs
[50:19] Speaker 1: don't make it? Right and if the people groups are completely,
[50:22] Speaker 1: wicked why is he preserving the? Women do you think
[50:25] Speaker 1: the women are all innocent or do you think maybe
[50:27] Speaker 1: they're just spoils of?
[50:28] Speaker 3: War, no they continue to propagate the.
[50:31] Speaker 1: Species, Right but are the women innocent of the same
[50:34] Speaker 1: guilt as the? Men are they?
[50:37] Speaker 2: Innocent, no every single.
[50:38] Speaker 1: Purpose so if the women and the men are both
[50:41] Speaker 1: guilty of the, sin why does they say kill all the,
[50:44] Speaker 1: men but the women you can.
[50:45] Speaker 3: KIDNAP i would imagine it's to continue propagating the species
[50:51] Speaker 3: and integrate.
[50:52] Speaker 1: Them do The hebrews not have?
[50:54] Speaker 2: Women, WELL i imagine they, Do but did.
[50:58] Speaker 1: They run out of?
[50:58] Speaker 2: THEM i don't think. So, No so what is something?
[51:01] Speaker 2: That so why does he?
[51:03] Speaker 1: Need what does he need then to propagate the human
[51:06] Speaker 1: race with these evil? People why doesn't he wipe them
[51:09] Speaker 1: out like the?
[51:09] Speaker 3: MEN i don't have a necessary answer to. That i'd
[51:15] Speaker 3: have to read the scriptures more on.
[51:17] Speaker 1: That because women are, Property they're not seen at the
[51:20] Speaker 1: same level as. Men to The god of The Old.
[51:22] Speaker 1: Testament their, property which is why you can have, concubines
[51:24] Speaker 1: you can have multiple, wives and you can just rape.
[51:27] Speaker 1: Them you can hand them out as spoils of, war
[51:29] Speaker 1: which we see happening in numbers thirty. One god literally
[51:33] Speaker 1: Instructs moses to hand out all these little virgin children
[51:36] Speaker 1: girls as spoilers of war to the.
[51:38] Speaker 3: Warriors SO i understand how you interpret. That you think
[51:44] Speaker 3: it is forced rape and. ABUSE i understand, That but
[51:49] Speaker 3: WHAT i interpret it as is a forced arrangement from
[51:53] Speaker 3: a terrific terrific a terrifying scenario in which these people
[51:58] Speaker 3: forced arrangement is. Rape that's not the definition of.
[52:06] Speaker 1: Rape it is any if you were not any any
[52:11] Speaker 1: amount of non consensual sexual contact is is.
[52:15] Speaker 3: Rape so that means that whenever a female kisses her
[52:21] Speaker 3: boyfriend when he SAYS i don't want to be, kissed
[52:23] Speaker 3: she's violating him sexual.
[52:27] Speaker 1: Content, yes if you're dating someone and she does not
[52:31] Speaker 1: consent to being, kissed you don't kiss. Her that's that's
[52:35] Speaker 1: like an Assault definitionly.
[52:39] Speaker 3: Isn't isn't consent for bodily activities to some small degree
[52:45] Speaker 3: imply that you can kiss this person and that their
[52:47] Speaker 3: mood is just going to vary and.
[52:49] Speaker 1: Vary, No and they can tell, you, know word for, word.
[52:52] Speaker 3: If it's, like, HEY i don't want to be kissed right,
[52:54] Speaker 3: now and then you respect it at a. Decency no means,
[52:57] Speaker 3: no well, yeah obviously they tell you.
[53:00] Speaker 1: That. Yeah so if you don't have, consent you don't have,
[53:05] Speaker 1: consent which means if you go into a woman without her,
[53:08] Speaker 1: consent that is called. Rape doesn't matter If god arranged,
[53:11] Speaker 1: it it's Just god ordained. Rape at that, point what if.
[53:14] Speaker 3: The woman did consent to, it but couldn't have the consent.
[53:18] Speaker 1: That we have right. Now she can't consent to it
[53:20] Speaker 1: because she is a captive of. War she is. Property
[53:23] Speaker 1: she's been, kidnapped.
[53:25] Speaker 3: But doesn't she even get the treatment of a wife
[53:28] Speaker 3: because she gets, married she gets.
[53:29] Speaker 1: The treatment of a. Concubine wives are concubine women that
[53:39] Speaker 1: you pay for or kidnap that become your. Wives those
[53:42] Speaker 1: are called. Concubines so why is someone you pay money?
[53:47] Speaker 1: For you pay a bride price for?
[53:49] Speaker 3: Them so do you think that The Old testament morals
[53:54] Speaker 3: and The New testament morals are just like completely?
[53:57] Speaker 1: Different, no Because jesus said to Fall law Of. Moses
[54:01] Speaker 1: so you don't get anything different until you get to
[54:05] Speaker 1: the writings Of, paul or if you turn to Like
[54:09] Speaker 1: mark chapter. Seven mark chapter seven seems to have an
[54:11] Speaker 1: opinion on the law and acts chapter ten In acts chapter.
[54:16] Speaker 3: Fifteen can you explain what you mean by that an
[54:20] Speaker 3: opinion on the?
[54:20] Speaker 2: Law? Please.
[54:21] Speaker 1: Yeah mark makes a comment in The gospel Of mark
[54:26] Speaker 1: in chapter. Seven he comments on what he Thinks jesus is,
[54:31] Speaker 1: doing which Means mark himself believed a thing about the
[54:35] Speaker 1: law even Though jesus said the. Opposite, so BUT i, Mean,
[54:40] Speaker 1: JACK i just want to make sure you're clear on
[54:42] Speaker 1: what you're agreeing. To at this, point you're you're agreeing
[54:45] Speaker 1: that Anything god commands to do is definitionally good now
[54:49] Speaker 1: Because god said to do? It?
[54:51] Speaker 3: Right, well If god is good and, love then he's
[54:55] Speaker 3: not going to give, evil sinful commandments to. People, No
[54:58] Speaker 3: he's doing it for a good, reason, Right.
[55:00] Speaker 1: Right but What i'm saying, is in your, worldview If
[55:03] Speaker 1: god tells you to do, it it's, always AND i mean,
[55:07] Speaker 1: always the right thing to do is, obey, right.
[55:13] Speaker 3: Say that one more time to kind of cut.
[55:14] Speaker 1: Out in your, worldview it's always the right thing to
[55:18] Speaker 1: Obey god when he gives you a.
[55:19] Speaker 3: Command right are you talking about by faith or by
[55:23] Speaker 3: seeing and talking To god and doing what he?
[55:25] Speaker 1: Says If god speaks? Differences If god speaks to, You
[55:33] Speaker 1: If god speaks to you, right in your, worldview obedience
[55:36] Speaker 1: is always the right. Choice.
[55:38] Speaker 3: Right If god actually spoke to me and it wasn't
[55:41] Speaker 3: a dream or it wasn't a not not a metaphor
[55:45] Speaker 3: what's the, word Like i'm thinking about something or like
[55:48] Speaker 3: delusion or. Whatever, no If i'm actually speaking To god
[55:50] Speaker 3: and he says to do, something the appropriate thing to
[55:53] Speaker 3: do is to do. It at least that's WHAT i would, Imagine.
[55:56] Speaker 1: Okay and what's the limit on? That is your, limit.
[56:00] Speaker 2: A limit is his? Goodness?
[56:02] Speaker 1: No, no what's the limit on the? Things, so for,
[56:04] Speaker 1: example If god, Said, JACK i need you to go
[56:07] Speaker 1: to the local, orphanage round up all of the. Babies
[56:10] Speaker 1: just drop kick them all into meat grinders and grind
[56:13] Speaker 1: them in the baby, paste and then make, sure, though
[56:17] Speaker 1: make sure that it's. Gross he keeps going. On make
[56:21] Speaker 1: sure though that after you ground them all in the baby,
[56:23] Speaker 1: paste you put them in the dehydrator and you can
[56:25] Speaker 1: make some baby paste beef jerky to snack. On would
[56:29] Speaker 1: it be the right thing to be obedient to that?
[56:32] Speaker 2: Command absolutely, not that's gross and.
[56:34] Speaker 1: Evil, Okay so then there are occasions where you should Disobey.
[56:38] Speaker 2: God, Well god is only going to give a command
[56:41] Speaker 2: if it's in line with.
[56:42] Speaker 1: Goodness but you just said he wouldn't give the command
[56:44] Speaker 1: unless he had a reason for.
[56:46] Speaker 2: It, well if it was for a good, reason his, Goodness.
[56:49] Speaker 1: But how do you know what the reason. Is i'm Not.
[56:52] Speaker 2: GOD i don't know.
[56:53] Speaker 3: THAT i don't know his his overarching.
[56:56] Speaker 1: Reason that's why the appropriate thing is to always. Obey
[56:59] Speaker 1: because you don't Know god's. Reasons you don't know the
[57:01] Speaker 1: mind Of, god which, means If god tells you to do,
[57:04] Speaker 1: something you have to do.
[57:05] Speaker 2: It take for, instance is the sacrifice Of? Isaac is
[57:09] Speaker 2: that the right?
[57:09] Speaker 1: Name just. Focus sacrifice Of isaac proves my point exactly.
[57:15] Speaker 2: Exactly If, God.
[57:16] Speaker 1: God knows you to do, it the correct thing to
[57:19] Speaker 1: do is.
[57:20] Speaker 3: Obey if it was like to sacrifice my son BECAUSE
[57:24] Speaker 3: i trusted that he would raise them from the.
[57:25] Speaker 1: Dead but you don't know. That that, is you don't know.
[57:28] Speaker 1: That all you know is That god told you to do.
[57:30] Speaker 3: SOMETHING i have faith in the unseen That god is
[57:37] Speaker 3: good And god is love and he has.
[57:40] Speaker 1: Purposes so If god told You, jack make the baby,
[57:43] Speaker 1: paste is what is the right thing to.
[57:46] Speaker 2: Do god's not going to say.
[57:49] Speaker 1: THAT i didn't ask you if you WOULD i, said
[57:51] Speaker 1: if he, did what's the right?
[57:52] Speaker 3: Thing If god were to give that? Command and that's
[57:57] Speaker 3: an Evil, god And i'm gonna just like, Accept i'm
[58:00] Speaker 3: going to.
[58:00] Speaker 1: Hell, HONESTLY i didn't ask you what you would. DO
[58:04] Speaker 1: i ask, you in your, worldview what is the right?
[58:07] Speaker 1: Thing is the right thing?
[58:08] Speaker 2: Obedience, OKAY i Think i'm understanding what you're trying to
[58:14] Speaker 2: try not to say the answer is, no you don't do.
[58:17] Speaker 1: That so sometimes so sometimes you do Disobey. God, okay
[58:23] Speaker 1: so how do you know which commands Of god you
[58:25] Speaker 1: should obey and which ones you should? DISOBEY i would.
[58:29] Speaker 2: Imagine doesn't it have to do with his goodness and his?
[58:32] Speaker 1: Love, no obviously not if he lets you rape. Women
[58:37] Speaker 1: you know he. Didn't he. Didn't you, don't he didn't
[58:39] Speaker 1: do any of. That if he really wanted to save the,
[58:41] Speaker 1: women he could just, say bring the women into your
[58:44] Speaker 1: community and give them houses to, live and make sure
[58:47] Speaker 1: that you provide for. Them you don't have to force
[58:49] Speaker 1: any of them into rapey. Marriages you think an all powerful,
[58:54] Speaker 1: god the only way he could handle saving these women
[58:57] Speaker 1: is the rape them. All and how come only the hot?
[58:59] Speaker 1: One how come it's only the good looking? Ones what
[59:02] Speaker 1: about the ugly?
[59:02] Speaker 2: Ones?
[59:04] Speaker 3: No, no, no, no that's just getting.
[59:05] Speaker 1: Into like the ugly ones?
[59:09] Speaker 3: Die these are these are not THINGS i know AND
[59:13] Speaker 3: i sounds.
[59:14] Speaker 1: Terrifying it's not, terrifying it's. Horrific he literally says. That he,
[59:19] Speaker 1: says when you go out to war against your, enemies
[59:22] Speaker 1: and the lord your yard hands them over to, you
[59:24] Speaker 1: and you take them. Captives suppose you see among the
[59:26] Speaker 1: captives a beautiful. Woman this commandment, says, hey if you
[59:31] Speaker 1: kidnap these, women you see a hot, one he's. Yours
[59:35] Speaker 1: you can go a Rapor so he doesn't care about the.
[59:38] Speaker 1: Women this is not about the, women because the ugly
[59:40] Speaker 1: ones theoretically just remain.
[59:42] Speaker 3: Slaves, okay so pause for just one moment to go
[59:46] Speaker 3: right back to that verse you just. Mentioned how many
[59:49] Speaker 3: days goes by before any kind of intimacy takes. Place
[59:52] Speaker 3: is that important in the slightest pit.
[59:54] Speaker 1: Take it's not at all. Important the standard time period
[59:57] Speaker 1: of mourning was thirty days in the ancient The.
[1:00:00] Speaker 3: East, okay so during this time, frame can't this man
[1:00:04] Speaker 3: theoretically try and do all he can to make her
[1:00:08] Speaker 3: realize he's not the evil person this but her, family her.
[1:00:12] Speaker 1: Father, no, no he is. Evil he murdered their, family, grandparents little.
[1:00:19] Speaker 1: Babies murdering, old gray haired people and murdering babies is
[1:00:23] Speaker 1: Never you're never the good. Guy you're always the bad.
[1:00:25] Speaker 1: Guy there's no good way murder to.
[1:00:27] Speaker 2: Do it's, bad, absolutely.
[1:00:30] Speaker 5: And he is a.
[1:00:30] Speaker 1: Murderer god murders people all the, time unjustifiably so all the.
[1:00:36] Speaker 3: Time so The bible says all has, sinned and all
[1:00:39] Speaker 3: full short of that glory so we're all, sinners, Right
[1:00:42] Speaker 3: so if he kills, someone he kills an evil.
[1:00:45] Speaker 2: Thing that's not.
[1:00:46] Speaker 1: Murder it is. Murdered. Definition when you murder children for
[1:00:51] Speaker 1: crimes they've never, committed that's. Murder what have you read,
[1:00:55] Speaker 1: First samuel, Fifteen go ahead and read. It this Is
[1:00:59] Speaker 1: saul giving a. Command i'm, Sorry samuel giving a command
[1:01:03] Speaker 1: From god To King. Saul so The lord sent me
[1:01:05] Speaker 1: to annoint you king over his People. Israel, now, therefore
[1:01:08] Speaker 1: listen to the words of The. Lord let's, say at
[1:01:10] Speaker 1: The lord Of, HOSTS i will punish The amalekites for
[1:01:12] Speaker 1: what they did in opposing The israelites when they came
[1:01:15] Speaker 1: up out Of. Egypt now go and Attack amlek and
[1:01:18] Speaker 1: utterly destroy all that they. Have do not spare, them
[1:01:20] Speaker 1: but kill both man and, woman child and, infant ox and,
[1:01:24] Speaker 1: sheep camel and. Donkey what prime were these children guilty?
[1:01:29] Speaker 3: OF i based off of that. VERSE i don't, know
[1:01:34] Speaker 3: BUT i imagine that it's in the context or the
[1:01:37] Speaker 3: one start either before or, after in the preceding, context
[1:01:41] Speaker 3: where it would likely explain the evils that they're.
[1:01:43] Speaker 1: Doing because he does give you a, REASON i will
[1:01:47] Speaker 1: punish The amalekites for what they did in opposing The
[1:01:51] Speaker 1: israelites when they came up out Of. Egypt when did this?
[1:01:53] Speaker 2: HAPPEN i don't know what he's telling.
[1:01:56] Speaker 1: Me four hundred years, prior this Is exodus, seventeen four
[1:01:59] Speaker 1: hundred years. Go The amalekites defended their own territory when
[1:02:04] Speaker 1: an invading people group came, by And god, said, nope
[1:02:07] Speaker 1: we're not going to do. That he, Said i'm gonna
[1:02:09] Speaker 1: wipe these people out entirely.
[1:02:11] Speaker 3: Anyways, immacolites the people who practice child's hackerd.
[1:02:14] Speaker 1: Icce, No so then not even. Close. Nope so four
[1:02:20] Speaker 1: hundred years, Later god finally gets around to it and,
[1:02:22] Speaker 1: says all, right time to fuck them. Up go wipe
[1:02:24] Speaker 1: out every last one of, them the, old the, young the,
[1:02:27] Speaker 1: babies the nursing. Infant kill them.
[1:02:29] Speaker 3: All, so do you believe That god has the right
[1:02:34] Speaker 3: to kill?
[1:02:34] Speaker 2: Anybody?
[1:02:35] Speaker 3: No, so whenever people die like that's just completely just just.
[1:02:43] Speaker 2: Normal it's, like.
[1:02:43] Speaker 3: Oh you're dead, now, Cool you're gonna rot in the.
[1:02:45] Speaker 3: Great that's kind of how your worldview sees it.
[1:02:47] Speaker 1: Now right. Now my worldview is that when you slaughter
[1:02:50] Speaker 1: infants for, crimes that they're great great great great great
[1:02:54] Speaker 1: great grandparents. Did that's, unjust that's. Injustice justice is when
[1:03:00] Speaker 1: you receive what you, deserve not what your great great
[1:03:03] Speaker 1: great great grandparents. Deserve but these children were slaughtered having
[1:03:08] Speaker 1: never committed a, sin.
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: Having never committed a. Sin but The bible says every
[1:03:13] Speaker 2: single person's a, Sinner so what not? Babies, well, yeah,
[1:03:18] Speaker 2: babies everyone's a. Sinner, man you think babies are? Sinners, yes,
[1:03:22] Speaker 2: everything babies are going to.
[1:03:23] Speaker 3: HELL i Think, god in his goodness and mercy. Sins
[1:03:28] Speaker 3: the little ones who don't know that the laws on
[1:03:31] Speaker 3: their heart and they're judged by.
[1:03:33] Speaker 1: It you would definitely imagine they go to. Heaven do
[1:03:35] Speaker 1: you think newborn babies?
[1:03:37] Speaker 2: Sin how old is? Newborn what do you mean by
[1:03:40] Speaker 2: that one week? Old one week? OLD i imagine that
[1:03:45] Speaker 2: baby does not have the knowledge of anything, sinful BUT
[1:03:49] Speaker 2: i imagine they have a body that has sinful. Tendencies
[1:03:52] Speaker 2: SO i Imagine god in his goodness would send that baby to.
[1:03:55] Speaker 1: Heaven but is the baby sinful or?
[1:03:57] Speaker 3: Not the baby is likely in a sinful, body, yes
[1:04:03] Speaker 3: because Of adam And eve's what happened to.
[1:04:05] Speaker 1: It so it can't help us Sin it has to
[1:04:07] Speaker 1: because of the said nature exactly. Exactly So god sends people
[1:04:11] Speaker 1: to hell because they can't help but do what they're
[1:04:13] Speaker 1: made to. Do you're making us. Worse you actually prove
[1:04:17] Speaker 1: my point for. Me god punishes people for things that
[1:04:20] Speaker 1: they have no control. Over If god gave you the sin,
[1:04:23] Speaker 1: nature meaning every human has to sin because they have
[1:04:25] Speaker 1: the sid, nature and then he punishes you with eternal
[1:04:28] Speaker 1: hell fire because you have the said nature and you
[1:04:31] Speaker 1: can't help but. Sin, eventually then he's just the biggest
[1:04:34] Speaker 1: asshole on the. Planet.
[1:04:36] Speaker 2: Well, no he.
[1:04:36] Speaker 3: Tells us to walk humbly and to love justice and
[1:04:40] Speaker 3: to love mercy and to renounce.
[1:04:41] Speaker 1: Ungodliness, yeah but he's still going to send you the.
[1:04:43] Speaker 3: Hell well if you don't believe In.
[1:04:46] Speaker 1: Jesus, yeah, yeah he's going to send you to hell
[1:04:49] Speaker 1: for doing the thing that he created you to. Do,
[1:04:54] Speaker 1: well so he so the, wicked Right? Jack Can can
[1:04:58] Speaker 1: you live a sinless? Life?
[1:05:00] Speaker 2: No not a?
[1:05:00] Speaker 1: Chance and why? Not why? Not?
[1:05:03] Speaker 2: Yeah because out of the heart of man comes and,
[1:05:08] Speaker 2: dwelts evil, thoughts, murder, adultery, fortification all sorts of.
[1:05:12] Speaker 1: Things because of the flesh we've been, given because of
[1:05:15] Speaker 1: the sin. Nature, okay so for something you have no
[1:05:18] Speaker 1: control over something you were born. With god will burn
[1:05:22] Speaker 1: you for all. Eternity do you just need to repent
[1:05:25] Speaker 1: and bleed the? Constable, well you can't just do. It
[1:05:28] Speaker 1: you can't force yourself to. Believe it's just not. True
[1:05:31] Speaker 1: so what you're saying now IS i use me for an,
[1:05:34] Speaker 1: example someone like me who pass to sin BECAUSE i
[1:05:39] Speaker 1: have THE si. Nature god will literally punish me with
[1:05:43] Speaker 1: hell fire for all of eternity BECAUSE i don't believe
[1:05:47] Speaker 1: in the Sky.
[1:05:47] Speaker 3: Carcass, WELL i don't necessarily know why people say we
[1:05:52] Speaker 3: get punished for all of eternity and your torture for all.
[1:05:55] Speaker 3: TRATERNITY i mean the wages sin is, Death you die and,
[1:05:58] Speaker 3: perish not your torture for.
[1:05:59] Speaker 1: Us, okay so you're an. Annihilationist what does that. Mean
[1:06:04] Speaker 1: it means that you're only in hell for a time,
[1:06:05] Speaker 1: period then you get. Annihilated, yeah you, perished you. Know,
[1:06:10] Speaker 1: okay that's. Fine if you're an, annhilationist we'll just change.
[1:06:12] Speaker 1: It So god will punish you with hell fire until
[1:06:14] Speaker 1: he annihilates you for doing the thing that you couldn't
[1:06:17] Speaker 1: help but do Because he created you with the sin
[1:06:19] Speaker 1: nature and the only way out of it is to
[1:06:21] Speaker 1: believe and confess in this Sky, carcass who fulfilled zero,
[1:06:24] Speaker 1: prophecies contradicts The Old testament at every, turn and for
[1:06:28] Speaker 1: all we can, tell failed his own second coming. Predictions so,
[1:06:31] Speaker 1: wait this is Sky carcass is just dead body floating
[1:06:36] Speaker 1: around in the.
[1:06:37] Speaker 2: Sky oh, okay, SORRY i was so confused on that
[1:06:40] Speaker 2: for a.
[1:06:40] Speaker 1: Second, Right so the, whole this whole concept Haint scott
[1:06:44] Speaker 1: out to be the biggest jackass in the world BECAUSE
[1:06:48] Speaker 1: i can't, help but SIN i have. TO i was
[1:06:50] Speaker 1: created that. Way so for me to get punished for
[1:06:53] Speaker 1: SOMETHING i can't help with hell fire is. Horrific and
[1:06:58] Speaker 1: then the only way out of it in your worldview
[1:07:01] Speaker 1: is to believe in the thing that's completely. Irrational believe
[1:07:05] Speaker 1: in a thing that's completely. Irrational what do you mean by.
[1:07:08] Speaker 1: That you've already told me The trinity is not.
[1:07:10] Speaker 3: Logical, well it's definitely like that divine mystery type.
[1:07:14] Speaker 1: Thing, yeah that's. Irrational, yes that's what it means to
[1:07:18] Speaker 1: not be. Logical it's. Irrational so you have to believe
[1:07:21] Speaker 1: that there's a there's a corpse of a man that
[1:07:24] Speaker 1: came back to life and literally breaks the laws of.
[1:07:27] Speaker 1: Logic you have to believe this. Nonsense then you have
[1:07:29] Speaker 1: to get on your knees and pray to this this
[1:07:31] Speaker 1: sky carcass For god to save you from the thing
[1:07:34] Speaker 1: That he's going to do to you for doing the
[1:07:35] Speaker 1: thing That he created you to. Do please tell me
[1:07:37] Speaker 1: to see the insanity.
[1:07:38] Speaker 3: THERE i see how it sounds trump, troublesome, Absolutely but
[1:07:43] Speaker 3: WHAT i say to that is it has to do
[1:07:45] Speaker 3: if all glorification eventually goes To jesus and for the
[1:07:49] Speaker 3: benefit of the people who are the, believers because they
[1:07:53] Speaker 3: are going to be glorified with Alongside christ and all
[1:07:58] Speaker 3: evil that's in the, world all the terrifying things are,
[1:08:01] Speaker 3: happening all the, wars all the people who Deny Jesus,
[1:08:04] Speaker 3: christ they are going, to at least in the Biblical christian,
[1:08:07] Speaker 3: narrative they are going to be at the judgment seat
[1:08:10] Speaker 3: at the end of time when that takes, place and
[1:08:12] Speaker 3: they're going to see just how wrong they were and
[1:08:15] Speaker 3: how much more beautiful and Glorious jesus is in what
[1:08:19] Speaker 3: the amazing message is that he teaches to.
[1:08:22] Speaker 1: US i, mean for, INSTANCE i certainly are not addressing
[1:08:25] Speaker 1: WHAT i, Said oh what did you? Say So god
[1:08:29] Speaker 1: is an unjust asshole if he sends you to hell
[1:08:34] Speaker 1: and then eventually annihilation for doing things that he created
[1:08:38] Speaker 1: you to. Do he designed the sin, nature he gave
[1:08:41] Speaker 1: you the sin. Nature he decided if you only have one,
[1:08:44] Speaker 1: sin you go to, hell which means he's on the
[1:08:48] Speaker 1: hook for me going to. Hell in, Fact roman chapter
[1:08:51] Speaker 1: one literally, says so.
[1:08:53] Speaker 3: It definitely sounds extremely strict and.
[1:08:55] Speaker 1: Harsh. Yeah, Yeah so let's imagine that there is an
[1:08:58] Speaker 1: age of, accountability because you certainly believe if at some
[1:09:00] Speaker 1: point you become accountable for your. Sin so let's stick
[1:09:03] Speaker 1: a pin in age. Thirteen you have your bar. Mitzvah
[1:09:05] Speaker 1: now you're accountable for your. Sins all. Right let's imagine
[1:09:09] Speaker 1: that you commit one. Sin the day after you're, accountable
[1:09:12] Speaker 1: you commit one, sin then you go to, church they
[1:09:15] Speaker 1: tell you About jesus and you're, like, yeah that's not for.
[1:09:17] Speaker 1: Me that sounds. Crazy and then you. Died do you
[1:09:19] Speaker 1: go to heaven or?
[1:09:20] Speaker 2: Home you would go to.
[1:09:24] Speaker 1: Hell, yeah that's the ridiculousness of your. RELIGION i hope
[1:09:28] Speaker 1: you think about that. Tonight That god will look at a.
[1:09:30] Speaker 1: CHILD i don't know if you have. CHILDREN i have a.
[1:09:32] Speaker 1: Child god would look at a thirteen year old child
[1:09:34] Speaker 1: who committed one sin and then heard this nonsense gospel and, said,
[1:09:39] Speaker 1: yeah that's, crazy and then, okay little hell fire for,
[1:09:43] Speaker 1: you burning for as long as you can burn TILL
[1:09:47] Speaker 1: i completely annihilate. You and you think this is the
[1:09:49] Speaker 1: good guy in the. Book this is the villain of the.
[1:09:51] Speaker 3: Book so if he's killing bad, people that's a good
[1:09:57] Speaker 3: thing bad.
[1:09:58] Speaker 1: PEOPLE a thirteen year old who committed one sin is
[1:10:01] Speaker 1: a bad, Person, yeah.
[1:10:03] Speaker 2: Depends on the. Sin what if he murdered.
[1:10:04] Speaker 1: SOMEONE i didn't say he murdered. Anyone imagine a thirteen
[1:10:09] Speaker 1: year old just lied to her parents about not chewing guming. Class,
[1:10:13] Speaker 1: yep The bible says all liars will go to the
[1:10:15] Speaker 1: lake of. Fire, second, Yeah, ROMANS i Mean revelation twenty
[1:10:19] Speaker 1: one to seven and. Eight so in your, worldview a
[1:10:23] Speaker 1: child who lies about chewing gumming class once and then
[1:10:27] Speaker 1: passes away literally goes to, hell suffers in hell, fire
[1:10:31] Speaker 1: and then gets thrown into the lake of fire as is,
[1:10:33] Speaker 1: annihilated and you Think god's a good.
[1:10:35] Speaker 3: Guy, Okay so from my answer to, that it sounds
[1:10:39] Speaker 3: like it.
[1:10:39] Speaker 1: Just needs to be a yes or. No you Think
[1:10:41] Speaker 1: god is good for doing this.
[1:10:42] Speaker 3: Behavior if it's just that one time sin like you
[1:10:46] Speaker 3: use in your, example and it was that lying and
[1:10:48] Speaker 3: it was a thirteen year, OLD i would say he's just,
[1:10:51] Speaker 3: yes because lying is. Evil The lord says he hates,
[1:10:55] Speaker 3: it it's an.
[1:10:55] Speaker 1: Abomination, Well, JACK i think you've perfectly illustrated how religion
[1:11:00] Speaker 1: rots the. BRAIN i want you to think about this.
[1:11:03] Speaker 1: Conversation we've got to move. On it's been. Along we've
[1:11:05] Speaker 1: had a long.
[1:11:05] Speaker 2: CONVERSATION i appreciate you staying up here with.
[1:11:07] Speaker 1: ME i love talking to. YOU i certainly hope you
[1:11:10] Speaker 1: look back on this conversation and recognize the fact that
[1:11:13] Speaker 1: you Have stockholm syndrome and you've been conditioned to believe
[1:11:17] Speaker 1: that the bully of the book is the good guy
[1:11:19] Speaker 1: in the, book when you wouldn't accept this in any
[1:11:22] Speaker 1: of the. Book if you read this in The, korwan
[1:11:23] Speaker 1: you'd say that motherfucker is. Insane but because it's your,
[1:11:26] Speaker 1: guy you're, Like, eh he's. GREAT i love. Him SO
[1:11:29] Speaker 1: i hope you recognize.
[1:11:29] Speaker 3: That jack definitely hear what you're, saying AND i thank
[1:11:32] Speaker 3: you for the time to.
[1:11:33] Speaker 1: Talk, cheers, Buddy you have a great. Day and people
[1:11:40] Speaker 1: wonder why we do these live. Streams it's crazy to.
[1:11:43] Speaker 1: Me it's crazy to, me the amount of bullets they will.
[1:11:46] Speaker 1: Bite i'll NEVER i will never understand biting all these.
[1:11:49] Speaker 1: Bullets all, right let's grab a least it was nice.
[1:11:53] Speaker 1: About let's grab a. Couple super, chance we'll get our
[1:11:55] Speaker 1: next guest in. Here oh, sorry one, SECOND i got
[1:11:57] Speaker 1: to arrange My superchat. WINDOWS i forgot to put My
[1:12:02] Speaker 1: superchat windows back. UP i apologize for. That see if
[1:12:06] Speaker 1: we can get this thing going about of being about a,
[1:12:11] Speaker 1: boom there's. One let me get the other windows set.
[1:12:15] Speaker 1: UP i apologize for. That friends totally forgot about. It
[1:12:18] Speaker 1: we were in the midst of having a conversation and
[1:12:22] Speaker 1: there we. Go so it says From abraham to Chaw,
[1:12:25] Speaker 1: DIAN i stopped Saying christians. Lie NOW i say pastor's
[1:12:28] Speaker 1: priests and apologists. Lie christians are under red rock Hard For,
[1:12:31] Speaker 1: doug that's actually a really good, point because it's not
[1:12:35] Speaker 1: That christians, lie it's that they don't know any. Better
[1:12:38] Speaker 1: they don't know they're saying things that are. Untrue and
[1:12:41] Speaker 1: the hem, says what Does god use to light his?
[1:12:44] Speaker 1: SMOKES a match made in? Heaven that's pretty. Good that
[1:12:49] Speaker 1: is pretty. Good. HIM i appreciate that. One And, marcus my, friend,
[1:12:53] Speaker 1: says when is the? Ketchup when is the? Ketchup doesn't
[1:12:57] Speaker 1: go on hot dog's? Debate i'm ready for, that. Okay
[1:13:01] Speaker 1: sarah AND i have had a lengthy disagreement on whether
[1:13:04] Speaker 1: or not you can put catch up a hot. DOG
[1:13:05] Speaker 1: i don't know when we're going to have a, debate
[1:13:07] Speaker 1: but it's probably gonna happen, Eventually so does mark the.
[1:13:13] Speaker 1: Calendars we'll let you. Know he AND c. Said dan
[1:13:16] Speaker 1: McClellan's Book You Always Divine images does a better job
[1:13:18] Speaker 1: of Explaining john's theology as an idolatrous as idolatrous and Not.
[1:13:23] Speaker 1: God it certainly. Does he does a great job in
[1:13:25] Speaker 1: the book explaining. THIS i NEVER i never claimed to
[1:13:30] Speaker 1: have a better explanation Than. DAN i encourage you to
[1:13:33] Speaker 1: go read his book And The Red. Shrek thank you
[1:13:36] Speaker 1: so so much for the fifty dollars super. Chat that's, huge,
[1:13:39] Speaker 1: friend Says. Jude in seventh century propaganda really has made
[1:13:43] Speaker 1: a mark on this world in ways they could never.
[1:13:46] Speaker 1: IMAGINE i. Agree it's crazy to think about what's come
[1:13:49] Speaker 1: from these cults over the course of time and versus
[1:13:54] Speaker 1: what people would have expected from. Them you know WHAT i?
[1:13:57] Speaker 1: Mean And, chip thank you for the Super chet, says if,
[1:14:00] Speaker 1: Anyone i'm, sorry if one throws out logic read The.
[1:14:04] Speaker 1: Trinity No christian can ever again use any logical argument
[1:14:08] Speaker 1: related To. God you can't say That god is logical
[1:14:10] Speaker 1: for some things but not logical for. Others, YEAH i
[1:14:14] Speaker 1: agree with, you, Right Either god is logical or he's,
[1:14:17] Speaker 1: not or she's. Not it's just it's gotta be one
[1:14:19] Speaker 1: another you. Get you gotta gotta pick a.
[1:14:22] Speaker 2: Lane.
[1:14:23] Speaker 1: Master Michelle heer, says huge relief you back. Online may
[1:14:26] Speaker 1: his hugeness grace. YOU i appreciate that and we are
[1:14:30] Speaker 1: back friends and hopefully no more LEG i think we
[1:14:33] Speaker 1: got the leg sorted. Out Johnny kick, SAYS i enjoy
[1:14:35] Speaker 1: The Planet peterson debate with That christian YouTuber Jim. Bob
[1:14:39] Speaker 1: do you have any VIDs with other christ, tubers any
[1:14:42] Speaker 1: plans for the Foreseeable, So Johnny, KICKS i don't really
[1:14:46] Speaker 1: have any debates EXCEPT i got one on moderated debates
[1:14:49] Speaker 1: that was Against WiFi, gospel The precept. Clown but it's
[1:14:57] Speaker 1: only because he like was challenging me and we had
[1:15:00] Speaker 1: kind of an ongoing beef that needed to be. Settled but,
[1:15:05] Speaker 1: No i'm not out here trying to debate Every Tom
[1:15:08] Speaker 1: digg Or. Harry that's not my. Goal my goal is
[1:15:11] Speaker 1: to get my message out to as many people as.
[1:15:13] Speaker 1: Possible AND i don't know if like going on modern
[1:15:15] Speaker 1: day debates really accomplishes that, goal But i'll be on there.
[1:15:18] Speaker 1: Again diablow, says super pumped for, you And matt on the,
[1:15:22] Speaker 1: line thank. You i'm pumped for it as. Well it's
[1:15:24] Speaker 1: gonna be. Fun Rock hard For duck says just finish
[1:15:26] Speaker 1: a manual for creating? Atheists oh hell yeah By Peter
[1:15:30] Speaker 1: bogozian discussing The socratic method of questioning to challenge. Beliefs
[1:15:35] Speaker 1: you are the inspiration and let go rock For. Doug,
[1:15:40] Speaker 1: hey thank you Rock hard For. DOUG i appreciate. That
[1:15:42] Speaker 1: AND i haven't read that. TEXT i actually. SHOULD i
[1:15:44] Speaker 1: should get a copy of it and give it a.
[1:15:45] Speaker 1: Read it sounds, good And Doug brown, says, hey, justin
[1:15:48] Speaker 1: Is matthew twenty one to nine verse about writing Two
[1:15:51] Speaker 1: donkeys a weird translation? Thing or Is matthew just getting
[1:15:54] Speaker 1: things wrong as? Usual how exactly does one ride two
[1:15:56] Speaker 1: donkeys at? Once so my understanding Of matthew twenty one
[1:16:00] Speaker 1: one is that he's misunderstanding what's happening In zechariaan nine to.
[1:16:05] Speaker 1: Nine so In zecharian nine to, nine he's reading The
[1:16:09] Speaker 1: Greek septuagent, edition and whoever translated in The greek scept
[1:16:13] Speaker 1: tuagent seems to have translated it in a way which
[1:16:18] Speaker 1: lends itself readily to believing there were. Two, right so
[1:16:22] Speaker 1: it would, say rejoice very, much o Daughter zion announced Odaor, Drusalem,
[1:16:26] Speaker 1: behold your king comes to, you righteous and able to keep.
[1:16:29] Speaker 1: Alive he is humble and mounted upon a, mule even
[1:16:33] Speaker 1: a young foal of an, ass you could. Say and as, well,
[1:16:36] Speaker 1: so not understanding what was happening in The, greek and
[1:16:40] Speaker 1: certainly not having any knowledge of what was happening in The,
[1:16:43] Speaker 1: hebrew didn't realize that the text was using synonymous, parallelism
[1:16:48] Speaker 1: assumed that there was in fact two, Animals and So
[1:16:52] Speaker 1: matthew just, said, fuck we've got to get two animals in,
[1:16:54] Speaker 1: here whereas anyone with a brain would have read that and, said,
[1:16:56] Speaker 1: ah this is just synonymous. Parallelism but that let's you
[1:16:59] Speaker 1: know That matthew wasn't too, Bright he wasn't good at
[1:17:02] Speaker 1: reading and understanding the ancient. Texts so it is what it.
[1:17:06] Speaker 1: Is all, Right let's get our next guest in. Here
[1:17:08] Speaker 1: let's go Grab Ricky. Marsh maybe see If fricky can
[1:17:18] Speaker 1: connect Aging, ricky Aging ricky, Anything, Ricky, Ricky, Ricky, Ricky,
[1:17:34] Speaker 1: Ricky Ricky. Ricky, oh leaving faith is with, Us sarah's with.
[1:17:39] Speaker 1: Us there they want to hear the great hot dog.
[1:17:42] Speaker 1: Debate i'm just, Saying america is about, freedom freedom to
[1:17:52] Speaker 1: put anything on the hot dogs that you.
[1:17:53] Speaker 6: Want, hey, hi let me let me talking about hot.
[1:18:05] Speaker 6: Dogs it looks that.
[1:18:07] Speaker 1: Way, uh we know that you're a dedicated no ketchup
[1:18:11] Speaker 1: hot dog. Advocate, yeah it's. Ridiculous it's such a. Thing that's, okay,
[1:18:16] Speaker 1: listen everyone is entitled to be, wrong.
[1:18:23] Speaker 7: And that is you when you put hot ketchup on
[1:18:26] Speaker 7: your hot.
[1:18:27] Speaker 1: Dog all, right, well we we can fight about this.
[1:18:30] Speaker 1: Later let's Grab, uh we're gonna grab someone from the.
[1:18:32] Speaker 1: Queue you wanna want to stay? Up?
[1:18:35] Speaker 2: Sure.
[1:18:35] Speaker 1: Awesome we're gonna Grab tans from the. Queue, Tans, sam
[1:18:41] Speaker 1: is It tans Or sam's? Tons? Tons? Tons? Okay? Tans
[1:18:46] Speaker 1: are you least? Eighteen and are you a? Believer?
[1:18:50] Speaker 2: Yes?
[1:18:50] Speaker 1: Absolutely and you believe in The Christian. God, yes, cool
[1:18:56] Speaker 1: and do you agree or disagree with the STATE.
[1:18:59] Speaker 5: I don't necessarily believe That jesus Is. God he's the
[1:19:03] Speaker 5: son Of.
[1:19:03] Speaker 1: God fair. Enough, ACTUALLY i just got talking done talking
[1:19:08] Speaker 1: to A trinitarian that says you can't be A christian
[1:19:10] Speaker 1: without believing In. TRINITY i was, like, yeah that's not.
[1:19:12] Speaker 1: TRUE a lot Of christians don't believe in.
[1:19:13] Speaker 5: Trinity SO i think that last, Guy, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
[1:19:18] Speaker 5: NICE i definitely. Yeah, well so what's your. Premise he's
[1:19:23] Speaker 5: a liar.
[1:19:24] Speaker 1: And he's a liar and a. Fraud so which one
[1:19:28] Speaker 1: of those topics would you prefer to touch? First for touch?
[1:19:31] Speaker 5: First mm, hmmm, uh well was? Fraud let's GO fraudu?
[1:19:38] Speaker 1: Praud. OKAY i think he's a fraud because he claimed
[1:19:41] Speaker 1: that he was A messiah and he claimed that he
[1:19:43] Speaker 1: was going to be coming back within the lifetimes of,
[1:19:44] Speaker 1: disciples and neither one of those were. True he not
[1:19:48] Speaker 1: only didn't fulfill a Single massianic, prophecy but The gospels
[1:19:52] Speaker 1: have to make repeated lies pretending that he did fulfill
[1:19:56] Speaker 1: prophecies unless you know one that he even. BUILD i
[1:19:59] Speaker 1: don't know if an. Name oh, well Let's i'm going
[1:20:06] Speaker 1: to show you the. Example so, sure so if you
[1:20:12] Speaker 1: have A bible or, not you can follow along with.
[1:20:14] Speaker 1: Me i'm going to put it on for.
[1:20:15] Speaker 5: Me, sorry, yeah, sorry work at the, Moment.
[1:20:20] Speaker 1: I'll put it on the. Screen so In jeremiah thirty,
[1:20:23] Speaker 1: one there's an interesting. Passage have you Read jeremiah, Before, yes,
[1:20:28] Speaker 1: okay so you're kind of familiar with the. Context jeremiah
[1:20:30] Speaker 1: is prophetesying the babylons are going to come, in wipe them,
[1:20:32] Speaker 1: out and then they're going to come back after seventy
[1:20:34] Speaker 1: years for. Years, yes. Awesome so we have a cool
[1:20:38] Speaker 1: passage in thirty one that, says thus say it The.
[1:20:41] Speaker 1: LORD a voice is heard in, rama lamentation and bitter.
[1:20:43] Speaker 1: Weeping rachel is weeping for her. Children she refused to
[1:20:46] Speaker 1: be comforted for her children because they are no. More
[1:20:50] Speaker 1: thus said The, lord keep her voice from. Weeping your
[1:20:52] Speaker 1: eyes from, tears for there is a reward for your,
[1:20:54] Speaker 1: work says The. Lord it shall come back from the
[1:20:57] Speaker 1: land of the. Enemy that's pretty easy you, interpret, Right
[1:21:00] Speaker 1: what do you think it's.
[1:21:01] Speaker 5: About, Well rachel being the mother Of, jacob she's eating four,
[1:21:15] Speaker 5: Children jacob's children being the the The. ISRAELITES i actually
[1:21:26] Speaker 5: never knew this was a. Prophecy is this? Prophecy is?
[1:21:29] Speaker 2: It?
[1:21:29] Speaker 1: Yeah so From jeremiah's and he's he's basically trying to
[1:21:32] Speaker 1: reassure the mother is, saying it's, okay your children are
[1:21:36] Speaker 1: going to be brought back to the homeland. Eventually, Right.
[1:21:39] Speaker 5: So does that it's a twine With jeremyah thirty three when.
[1:21:45] Speaker 1: WELL i think that it should intertwine With jeremiah thirty
[1:21:49] Speaker 1: three if you read long. Enough BUT i think that's
[1:21:51] Speaker 1: going to be a separate. Discussion right. Now we're just
[1:21:55] Speaker 1: trying to figure out as to what the prophet is actually.
[1:21:57] Speaker 1: Saying that's actually, saying, well, well.
[1:22:04] Speaker 5: She refuses to be comforted for her children because they
[1:22:07] Speaker 5: are no. MORE i think it's because they are basically
[1:22:14] Speaker 5: well that the chosen. People, obviously this is about The
[1:22:20] Speaker 5: populonian captivity.
[1:22:22] Speaker 2: That they.
[1:22:24] Speaker 5: They they've walked away from, yahweh.
[1:22:28] Speaker 1: Right And god is sending them to exile and then
[1:22:32] Speaker 1: they're going to come, back, right, yes all? Right. Yes
[1:22:36] Speaker 1: the problem comes in is when we go to The
[1:22:38] Speaker 1: New testament And matthew is selling. Lies so if you
[1:22:44] Speaker 1: go To matthew two, eighteen when the children in and
[1:22:48] Speaker 1: Around bethlehem get, executed, says then what had been spoken
[1:22:52] Speaker 1: through the Prophet jeremiah was. Fulfilled so the voice was
[1:22:55] Speaker 1: heard In, rama wailing in loud, Lamentation rachel weeping for her,
[1:22:58] Speaker 1: children refused to be consoled because there are no. More
[1:23:02] Speaker 1: but that's not a prophecy about the children Of. Bothlehem
[1:23:04] Speaker 1: that's a. Prophecy but the children being taken captive in
[1:23:08] Speaker 1: The babylonian exile and then subsequently coming back.
[1:23:11] Speaker 5: Coming, Back, well Well jesus was, there he he, he
[1:23:17] Speaker 5: he was bringing them, back he. He he did not
[1:23:21] Speaker 5: say he was there for the lost, sheep which were
[1:23:24] Speaker 5: not not necessarily just The Southern. Kingdom that he was
[1:23:30] Speaker 5: because he was prophesided to those of The Southern. Kingdom
[1:23:35] Speaker 5: but he didn't bring any of. Them they were further
[1:23:40] Speaker 5: scattered and then and then and then, minds you, know
[1:23:44] Speaker 5: they they had been led astray by The. Pharisees so
[1:23:49] Speaker 5: he was bringing them back to, well you, Know God's
[1:23:53] Speaker 5: god's laws and.
[1:23:54] Speaker 1: Commandments, no, no says they're going to come back to their. Land,
[1:24:00] Speaker 1: yeah that's that's that's future, prophecy they.
[1:24:03] Speaker 5: Say when we look at, revelations we see that in
[1:24:09] Speaker 5: revelation that and you, know he's going to be the
[1:24:12] Speaker 5: he's going to be The king of the of, Kings
[1:24:15] Speaker 5: lord of, lords he's going to be he's going to
[1:24:17] Speaker 5: sit on the phone Of.
[1:24:17] Speaker 1: David but the prophecy in revelation didn't come. True so
[1:24:23] Speaker 1: what The Old testament says is that the children Of
[1:24:25] Speaker 1: israel are going to come back from the babylon in
[1:24:28] Speaker 1: captivity back To. Israel so this cannot be applied To
[1:24:32] Speaker 1: jesus Because jesus didn't bring anyone back From babylon in, captivity,
[1:24:37] Speaker 1: Right CAN i just real quick?
[1:24:44] Speaker 7: Times why do you believe That jesus is The son Of?
[1:24:48] Speaker 5: God because you sid and and most, prophecy the, prophets.
[1:24:58] Speaker 5: PSALMS i, mean we look at SOME i believe it's
[1:25:01] Speaker 5: sounds twenty some twenty two sounds twenty. Two you know
[1:25:08] Speaker 5: we see there. That SORRY i can't read. IT i
[1:25:15] Speaker 5: can't get off the top of my head the. Past
[1:25:19] Speaker 5: so why do you think some twenty two is a? Prophecy,
[1:25:23] Speaker 5: well it talks about his.
[1:25:24] Speaker 1: Crucifixion mm, hmm it doesn't is talking about events that
[1:25:29] Speaker 1: are already. Transpired, yeah, yeah a prophecy needs to be
[1:25:38] Speaker 1: about the. Future doesn't.
[1:25:39] Speaker 5: It, yes absolutely, Absolutely and what.
[1:25:43] Speaker 1: We read in some twenty two is not about the.
[1:25:45] Speaker 1: Future what we read In some twenty two Is david
[1:25:47] Speaker 1: lamenting his own, struggles both in the past and in the.
[1:25:51] Speaker 1: Present starts, Out My, God My, god why have you've forsaken?
[1:25:54] Speaker 1: Me this Is david crying out To. God and then he,
[1:25:57] Speaker 1: Says i'm poured out like. Water all my bones are
[1:25:59] Speaker 1: out of. Joint my heart is like, wax it's melting
[1:26:02] Speaker 1: within my. Breast so he's being very poetic about his.
[1:26:05] Speaker 1: Struggles is my mouth is dried up like pot shirts
[1:26:08] Speaker 1: and my tongue sticks to my. Jaws you lay me
[1:26:10] Speaker 1: in the dust of, Death for dogs are all around,
[1:26:13] Speaker 1: me a company of evildoers and circle. Me they bound
[1:26:15] Speaker 1: my hands and my. FEET i can count all my.
[1:26:17] Speaker 1: Bones they stare and they gloat over. Me they divide
[1:26:20] Speaker 1: my clothes among, themselves and for my clothing they cast.
[1:26:23] Speaker 1: Lots so this is a present tense psalm Of King
[1:26:27] Speaker 1: david about his own. Struggles why WOULD i read this
[1:26:30] Speaker 1: as a? Prophecy, well did they actually happen To King?
[1:26:34] Speaker 1: David like you? Know? They he's telling you it happened to,
[1:26:38] Speaker 1: him telling you what happened to. Him he's talking, here
[1:26:41] Speaker 1: he's talking, here physically happened to?
[1:26:43] Speaker 5: Him or this is like he feels like this is
[1:26:47] Speaker 5: what you, know how he feels is that that actually?
[1:26:50] Speaker 1: Happen, WELL i think it's. BOTH i think he's being
[1:26:55] Speaker 1: a little metaphorical about how severe it. Is, obviously he's
[1:26:58] Speaker 1: not being attacked by. Dogs he's obviously not being attacked
[1:27:02] Speaker 1: by a. Lion says here that he's being attacked by
[1:27:06] Speaker 1: the strong bulls Of. Bashan he's obviously not being attacked by.
[1:27:09] Speaker 1: Bulls he's obviously using metaphorical language to describe his own.
[1:27:12] Speaker 1: Suffering But david certainly did suffer quite a bit in.
[1:27:16] Speaker 1: War he was known as a warrior. King and in,
[1:27:20] Speaker 1: fact when you're when you when you're taken in, battle
[1:27:24] Speaker 1: this is what. Happens they they take your, armor they
[1:27:27] Speaker 1: take your, Clothing they divided among, themselves you.
[1:27:30] Speaker 5: Know, yeah but they bound his, hands his feet LIKE
[1:27:36] Speaker 5: i don't remember a time. THAT i, MEAN i guess
[1:27:41] Speaker 5: when HE i, mean you, know THEY i mean stopped
[1:27:46] Speaker 5: HIS i peters his.
[1:27:48] Speaker 1: MOVEMENT i.
[1:27:49] Speaker 5: Guess but but he just told you they.
[1:27:52] Speaker 1: Did so this this is the weird thing About psalm
[1:27:57] Speaker 1: twenty two is Like david is telling you what's, happening
[1:28:01] Speaker 1: like he's telling you this is happening to. Me and
[1:28:04] Speaker 1: Then christians will get up here and, say, well this
[1:28:06] Speaker 1: never happened To. David he's telling you what happened to.
[1:28:08] Speaker 1: Him what more do you? NEED i understand.
[1:28:13] Speaker 5: That but that's, so you, KNOW i, MEAN i guess
[1:28:19] Speaker 5: you know when it says they bound his hands and,
[1:28:21] Speaker 5: feet you know That jesus', feet hands and feet were,
[1:28:23] Speaker 5: bound and they cast lots and shred his coat when
[1:28:26] Speaker 5: he was walking with his.
[1:28:27] Speaker 1: Cross that's what happened when you're. Captured that's what people.
[1:28:30] Speaker 1: Did that's just what Everyone that's what everyone had happened to.
[1:28:33] Speaker 1: Them if you read any of the ancient war, annals
[1:28:36] Speaker 1: that's what you did with the foreign. Kings you bound
[1:28:38] Speaker 1: their hands and their. Feet you bring him in his.
[1:28:41] Speaker 1: Captives usually you beat the snot out of. Them you
[1:28:44] Speaker 1: take all their good, stuff you take all the, armor
[1:28:46] Speaker 1: all the, weapons like Even. Goliath remember they took his
[1:28:49] Speaker 1: sword and kept it as a souvenir they, kept they
[1:28:51] Speaker 1: took his armor Even, no he took his head as.
[1:28:55] Speaker 1: Well yeah you're, right and his, Head yeah you nail that.
[1:28:58] Speaker 1: Right so so like the this is just what happens
[1:29:02] Speaker 1: when you're this is just wartime. Language we see the
[1:29:05] Speaker 1: same thing in like For samuel thirty one and Joe
[1:29:10] Speaker 1: cephis even their rights a couple instances where this is
[1:29:14] Speaker 1: the case where he says that after The amalekite, war
[1:29:18] Speaker 1: The israelites went and stripped the, bodies the, clothing and
[1:29:22] Speaker 1: the weapons of the Slain. Amalekites just what just what you?
[1:29:26] Speaker 5: Did, yeah, yeah, yeah, ABSOLUTELY i heard you dialoguing with The.
[1:29:36] Speaker 5: Jack jack was his name regard in war times all
[1:29:39] Speaker 5: when the you, know the The israelites were commanded By
[1:29:44] Speaker 5: god to underlive you, know certain certain. Groups but you, know,
[1:29:49] Speaker 5: Sorry i'll get back to the subject you brought. Up
[1:29:55] Speaker 5: jeremy thirty, one which is actually a good. POINT i
[1:29:58] Speaker 5: didn't know that was future, prophecy to be, Honest BUT
[1:30:01] Speaker 5: i thought because when it begins To jeremiah thirty three
[1:30:04] Speaker 5: and it talks about.
[1:30:08] Speaker 1: Us, Yeah jeremiah thirty three or, fourteen he talks about
[1:30:11] Speaker 1: the Actual, messiah because there is A messiah In, jeremiah
[1:30:15] Speaker 1: and In. Jeremiah you, know the interesting thing about The
[1:30:19] Speaker 1: messiah is he is he's doing the opposite of What
[1:30:22] Speaker 1: jesus did, it, Says, thus say is The, lord WHEN
[1:30:28] Speaker 1: i got to start from the. Beginning the days are surely,
[1:30:30] Speaker 1: coming says The, lord WHEN i will fulfill the Promise
[1:30:32] Speaker 1: i've made to The house Of israel into The house
[1:30:34] Speaker 1: Of judah in those, days and at that, TIME i
[1:30:37] Speaker 1: will cause a righteous branch to spring up For, david
[1:30:39] Speaker 1: and he shall execute justice and righteousness in the. Land
[1:30:43] Speaker 1: in those, Days judah will be saved And jerusalem will
[1:30:46] Speaker 1: live in. Safety and this is the name by which
[1:30:48] Speaker 1: it will be. Called The lord is Our. Righteousness for
[1:30:51] Speaker 1: thus saith The Lord david shall never lack a man
[1:30:54] Speaker 1: to sit on the throne of The house Of, israel
[1:30:56] Speaker 1: and the levitical priests shall never lack a man in
[1:30:59] Speaker 1: my presence to offer burnt, offerings to make grain, offerings
[1:31:03] Speaker 1: and to make sacrifices for all. Time so when The messiah,
[1:31:07] Speaker 1: comes there's going to be ritualistic mosaic sacrifices and, offerings
[1:31:11] Speaker 1: just Like, ezekiel, Says.
[1:31:14] Speaker 5: Yes and so Obviously jesus was on the lineage Of,
[1:31:19] Speaker 5: david and he, well his mother Was, mary was a
[1:31:27] Speaker 5: part of the the tribe Of.
[1:31:29] Speaker 1: Levi, yes she was from the tribes of The.
[1:31:31] Speaker 2: Levites, yeah, yeah so.
[1:31:35] Speaker 5: That that they're speaking about two. Tribes that Concerning, JESUS
[1:31:40] Speaker 5: i think that's it's talking About. JESUS i mean that
[1:31:43] Speaker 5: that popacy, occur it.
[1:31:45] Speaker 1: Didn't, occur it, Failed jesus didn't do. It jesus didn't do.
[1:31:49] Speaker 1: It so it says that the levitical, priests these are
[1:31:51] Speaker 1: real people who's not a. Metaphor so levitical priests shall
[1:31:55] Speaker 1: never lack amandon my presence to offer burnt, offerings make
[1:31:59] Speaker 1: grain offers and sacrifices for all. Time now my translation
[1:32:02] Speaker 1: says all, time but some of them just say, forever
[1:32:05] Speaker 1: like some will say, always some will say, forever some
[1:32:08] Speaker 1: will say for all. Time but it just means continually
[1:32:11] Speaker 1: there's going to be continued sacrifices Of moses going, on going.
[1:32:15] Speaker 5: On so this was just probably fulfilled In Eran mar thirty.
[1:32:21] Speaker 5: THREE i mean it was never But jesus also it's
[1:32:26] Speaker 5: still a future prophecy, pending is what you're.
[1:32:28] Speaker 1: Saying, well it's never going to be fulfilled because according
[1:32:31] Speaker 1: to The New, testament there will be no mosaic sacrifices.
[1:32:34] Speaker 1: Anymore but if your.
[1:32:38] Speaker 7: Point times is that you think That jesus is The
[1:32:42] Speaker 7: messiah because he fulfilled These messianic. PROPHECIES i, Mean justin
[1:32:49] Speaker 7: is showing you How jesus did not fulfill The messianic,
[1:32:54] Speaker 7: prophecy and so you need a different reason than to
[1:32:57] Speaker 7: believe That jesus.
[1:32:58] Speaker 2: Is The son Of. God.
[1:33:02] Speaker 5: Yeah, no, NO i understand. That i'm still looking at
[1:33:06] Speaker 5: it as a future prophecy and When, yeah but.
[1:33:10] Speaker 7: If it's a future, startacy that Means jesus did not fulfill,
[1:33:14] Speaker 7: it therefore us not The.
[1:33:16] Speaker 1: Messiah, well he did say In matthew five point.
[1:33:19] Speaker 5: SVENTEEN i think that that has come to dispose of
[1:33:23] Speaker 5: the law and the prophets has not come to, disposed
[1:33:27] Speaker 5: but to fulfill until heaven and earth. Passed so we
[1:33:32] Speaker 5: know that heaven And earth hasn't been rolled up into
[1:33:34] Speaker 5: a scroll like THE i Believe Prophet ezekiel. Said so
[1:33:42] Speaker 5: it's still pending.
[1:33:43] Speaker 1: Prophecy do you Think jesus is The?
[1:33:46] Speaker 7: Messiah then he has not fulfilled the, Prophecy so why
[1:33:50] Speaker 7: do you think he's The Messiah if he hasn't fulfilled the.
[1:33:52] Speaker 5: Prophecy it's still to be fulfilled when we see him
[1:33:57] Speaker 5: in The book Of. Revelation AND i believe the book Of.
[1:34:01] Speaker 5: Galatians when see a new heaven And, earth and her
[1:34:06] Speaker 5: name Is, jeryson you've brought.
[1:34:08] Speaker 1: Up just a second. Ago another contradiction we see Between
[1:34:14] Speaker 1: jesus and the rest of The, bible which is that
[1:34:16] Speaker 1: according To matthew, Five jesus hays to follow the wall
[1:34:19] Speaker 1: until heaven earth passed, away and heaven earth certainly hasn't passed.
[1:34:22] Speaker 1: Away but In Ephesians paul says the. Opposite it, says
[1:34:26] Speaker 1: but Now, Christ, jesus you who once were far, off
[1:34:29] Speaker 1: had been brought near by the blood Of. Christ for
[1:34:33] Speaker 1: he is our peace in his. Flesh he has made
[1:34:35] Speaker 1: both into one and has broken down the dividing wall
[1:34:39] Speaker 1: that is the hostility between us abolishing the law and
[1:34:42] Speaker 1: its commandments and its. Ordinances So paul, Says jesus about
[1:34:46] Speaker 1: abolished the. Law jesus, SAID i did not abolish the. Law,
[1:34:55] Speaker 1: interesting it's a tricky.
[1:34:57] Speaker 5: ONE i don't have an.
[1:35:04] Speaker 1: Outfit Yeahs, now to be, FAIR i Think paul is
[1:35:09] Speaker 1: a crazy one when it comes to the. LAW i
[1:35:11] Speaker 1: Think jesus was a Good, jew meaning he tried to
[1:35:13] Speaker 1: follow the. LAW i Think paul was a maniac who
[1:35:16] Speaker 1: fell off a horse and bumped his head and dreamed
[1:35:19] Speaker 1: up with this whole new theology through these weird visions he.
[1:35:23] Speaker 5: HAD i, mean he was A pharisee or A pharisee
[1:35:28] Speaker 5: in the, making so he did know a lot about the, law.
[1:35:32] Speaker 1: Well he claims. To he makes a lot of mistakes
[1:35:36] Speaker 1: talking about the, law and it's clearly he. DOESN'T i
[1:35:39] Speaker 1: don't think he's A hebrew Of, hebrews as he, says
[1:35:41] Speaker 1: because he doesn't actually know Any. Hebrew And i'm going
[1:35:44] Speaker 1: to show. You oh, sorry not Carry i'm. SORRY i
[1:35:49] Speaker 1: just want to show you one example that clearly demonstrates
[1:35:51] Speaker 1: that he. Doesn't not only does he not Know, hebrew
[1:35:54] Speaker 1: he doesn't really understand what's in The Hebrew. Bible if
[1:35:57] Speaker 1: you go To galatians chapter, three a pretty famous. Passage
[1:36:01] Speaker 1: he talks about how the law was done away. With
[1:36:03] Speaker 1: but there's another thing In glatians three that people. Miss
[1:36:06] Speaker 1: so In glatians three he's trying to make an argument
[1:36:10] Speaker 1: from The Old, testament saying, that, well as long as
[1:36:13] Speaker 1: you read The Old testament this, way it means what it.
[1:36:15] Speaker 1: Means but his brothers and, SISTERS i gave an example
[1:36:18] Speaker 1: from daily. Life once a person's will has been. Ratified
[1:36:21] Speaker 1: no one adds to it or annuls. It, now the
[1:36:24] Speaker 1: promises were made To abraham and to his. Offspring, okay
[1:36:28] Speaker 1: so now he's talking about the. Promise he's saying there
[1:36:31] Speaker 1: was a promise To abraham's. Offspring then he, says it
[1:36:36] Speaker 1: does not say and to offsprings plural as of, many
[1:36:42] Speaker 1: but it says and to your, offspring that, is to
[1:36:45] Speaker 1: one person who Is. Christ so who he's, saying because
[1:36:49] Speaker 1: the promise Of abraham And genesis says offspring in the,
[1:36:52] Speaker 1: singular not in the, plural we have to interpret it
[1:36:55] Speaker 1: that all people will be one rather than multiple people
[1:37:00] Speaker 1: under the. Promise but none of that's. Important the theology
[1:37:03] Speaker 1: here's not. Important what's important here is That paul has
[1:37:06] Speaker 1: no idea what's happening in The hebrew. Text because anyone
[1:37:09] Speaker 1: who's learned like Like, hebrew like one, oh one knows
[1:37:13] Speaker 1: one of the most popular words in The hebrew, language
[1:37:15] Speaker 1: which is, zirah which means seed or, offspring and the
[1:37:21] Speaker 1: plural usage of zara doesn't show up in The Old.
[1:37:23] Speaker 1: Testament it's a collective, noun just like the word om for.
[1:37:28] Speaker 1: People it's a collective, noun and it uses singular, grammar
[1:37:33] Speaker 1: even though it's referring to a. Collective But paul doesn't know.
[1:37:36] Speaker 1: That there's no, you there's no convincing me That paul
[1:37:40] Speaker 1: has ever read The bible In hebrew if he doesn't
[1:37:43] Speaker 1: know that one of the most popular words in The
[1:37:44] Speaker 1: Hebrew bible is just a collective singular as opposed to a.
[1:37:48] Speaker 1: Plural but he makes a whole, theology a whole theological
[1:37:50] Speaker 1: point on this, fact which is head spinning to.
[1:37:54] Speaker 5: Me i'd, say, well m, okay so he uses it
[1:38:04] Speaker 5: as a SINGLE i, mean when.
[1:38:07] Speaker 2: Does.
[1:38:07] Speaker 1: THAT i don't know if that.
[1:38:10] Speaker 5: Proves your, point because you, know we we see that And,
[1:38:15] Speaker 5: matthew When matthew gets run down the genealogy From david
[1:38:19] Speaker 5: down To, jesus he uses the word seed. Instead so
[1:38:24] Speaker 5: we as we still using instead of, SEEDS i, Guess
[1:38:30] Speaker 5: AND i don't. KNOW i Think i'm just you, know
[1:38:33] Speaker 5: clutching that straws. Here but with that into, INTERPRETATION i still.
[1:38:38] Speaker 1: Believe That.
[1:38:42] Speaker 5: Paul is actually mentioning because we know that The messiah
[1:38:46] Speaker 5: who's going to Be king of, Kings, jesus we know
[1:38:50] Speaker 5: that he is you, know one one. Person so are
[1:38:54] Speaker 5: you are you saying that because he's Another, sorry here's
[1:38:58] Speaker 5: another point when when.
[1:39:00] Speaker 1: SO i wasn't making sorry to, INTERRUPT i wasn't making
[1:39:02] Speaker 1: a theological. Point What i'm saying is That, Paul paul
[1:39:06] Speaker 1: was looking back on The book Of, genesis and it's
[1:39:09] Speaker 1: clear that he can't Read. Hebrew he's only reading in The.
[1:39:11] Speaker 1: Greek so in The greek you have a plural of,
[1:39:14] Speaker 1: sperma that's The greek word for, seed but it can be.
[1:39:18] Speaker 1: Plural but in The Hebrew bible you don't find the
[1:39:21] Speaker 1: plural of. Seed it's always a collective, singular, Right So
[1:39:25] Speaker 1: paul didn't know. That If paul had a copy Of
[1:39:28] Speaker 1: genesis In, hebrew he wouldn't have made this. Argument or
[1:39:31] Speaker 1: if he had ever at least read it once in The,
[1:39:34] Speaker 1: hebrew or if he knew he like the basics of Biblical,
[1:39:37] Speaker 1: hebrew he wouldn't have made this. Mistake it's just a grammatical.
[1:39:40] Speaker 1: Mistake All i'm saying Is, paul the Supposed hebrew Of,
[1:39:43] Speaker 1: hebrews The pharisee Of. Pharisees that guy's a. Joke there's
[1:39:47] Speaker 1: no way he's A hebrew Of hebrews if he doesn't
[1:39:49] Speaker 1: know what's happening in The hebrew, text The hebrew, Text
[1:39:54] Speaker 1: i'll take, It, okay, fair you.
[1:39:57] Speaker 2: Know WHAT i.
[1:39:57] Speaker 1: Mean but let's talk about that's the. Thing let's talk
[1:40:00] Speaker 1: about the, lineage BECAUSE i think the lineage is a
[1:40:02] Speaker 1: kind of. Important so you already alluded to the lineage
[1:40:06] Speaker 1: That mary came from Trouble, levi and Supposedly joseph came
[1:40:10] Speaker 1: from the tribe Of judah and then he Adopted. Jesus
[1:40:16] Speaker 1: the PROBLEM i have the lineage is In, MATTHEW i
[1:40:19] Speaker 1: don't believe.
[1:40:19] Speaker 5: It, sorry CAN i just, YEAH i don't believe in
[1:40:24] Speaker 5: an immaculate, conception so to, say Because joseph was already
[1:40:30] Speaker 5: his spoused to to To.
[1:40:33] Speaker 1: Mary it's. Interesting tell me. More i'm. Curious, Now i'm.
[1:40:39] Speaker 1: Curious Now sarah's under the. Receipt now.
[1:40:46] Speaker 5: You've already conflicted me in just two. Verses So i'm
[1:40:49] Speaker 5: pretty much on the edge of my seat too nearly
[1:40:51] Speaker 5: abouts fall. Off but, yes so when it comes to
[1:40:55] Speaker 5: spells him BECAUSE i, CAN'T i can't see That god
[1:41:04] Speaker 5: would allow an immaculate. Conception and in a, sense because he,
[1:41:11] Speaker 5: didn't he flooded the world because of the the fallen
[1:41:16] Speaker 5: angels come down To earth and meeting with the sons
[1:41:18] Speaker 5: and women sons to, men, sorry daughters.
[1:41:22] Speaker 1: Is a very good, point a very good.
[1:41:23] Speaker 5: Point and then so, he you, know he, he that
[1:41:27] Speaker 5: is an abomination and hence why that was not. Allowed
[1:41:32] Speaker 5: SO i can't see him actually changing his stance on
[1:41:35] Speaker 5: on on the fact that it wasn't. Allowed SO i
[1:41:39] Speaker 5: can't see. THAT i believe, that you, KNOW i Think
[1:41:44] Speaker 5: i'm talking about. Context but, yeah because they were.
[1:41:46] Speaker 1: Espoused it sounds like you're an, adoptionist, right you believe
[1:41:50] Speaker 1: like The gospel Of, mark as The gospel Of mark
[1:41:52] Speaker 1: Frames jesus as like the adopted son Of, god like
[1:41:55] Speaker 1: at his baptism he became god, son similar to Like
[1:41:58] Speaker 1: psalm to when in some Too david says today you
[1:42:03] Speaker 1: have forgotten. Me, YES i like your terminology around.
[1:42:08] Speaker 5: That so, yeah absolutely, Doctrinism, yeah, absolutely like he's a
[1:42:11] Speaker 5: chosen son because we know That david well As well
[1:42:15] Speaker 5: was known as firstborn. Son david was known as the firstborn.
[1:42:19] Speaker 5: Son eph was known as the firstborn. Son SO i
[1:42:23] Speaker 5: mean obviously they WERE i, mean you, Know, god but
[1:42:28] Speaker 5: that's Not god's. Seed so it's so to say he's,
[1:42:32] Speaker 5: impregnanty you, Know joseph's, wife so, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely
[1:42:39] Speaker 5: that's that's exactly what.
[1:42:41] Speaker 7: The bible claims that you. Didn't, sorry there's an. Echo
[1:42:46] Speaker 7: do you have like headphones or SOMETHING i can?
[1:42:48] Speaker 1: Hear, Yes, sam there is a little bit of an.
[1:42:51] Speaker 1: Echo maybe swipe away from the app and come. Back don't,
[1:42:54] Speaker 1: exit just swipe away and come. Back see if it fixes. It, sure,
[1:42:59] Speaker 1: yeah that. NOW i hope we don't lose. HIM i
[1:43:03] Speaker 1: don't want to lose. Him he's. Fun, okay he's wiped.
[1:43:10] Speaker 1: Away it's better. NOW i think it's. Fixed. Oh, Correct
[1:43:16] Speaker 1: i'm gonna fectuate SO i might. WORK i Think sarah's
[1:43:19] Speaker 1: got a couple of. Questions i'm going to run and
[1:43:21] Speaker 1: use restaurant real quick while While sarah and, you you
[1:43:24] Speaker 1: you do talk for a. Bit, sure.
[1:43:28] Speaker 7: So when The bible claims, that, like, uh when The
[1:43:36] Speaker 7: bible mix claims About jesus', birth do you think that
[1:43:39] Speaker 7: the The bible is incorrect about?
[1:43:41] Speaker 8: That?
[1:43:42] Speaker 7: LIKE i Guess i'm interested in your view of the
[1:43:45] Speaker 7: infallibility of The.
[1:43:46] Speaker 1: Bible you're.
[1:43:52] Speaker 3: MUTED i didn't know if you knew that or.
[1:43:53] Speaker 5: Not, Sorry, SARAH i just got called away from my boss.
[1:43:59] Speaker 1: Again. Please, YEAH i have a problem.
[1:44:01] Speaker 7: Listening when The, Bible like when The bible makes claims
[1:44:04] Speaker 7: About jesus' birth and how he was, conceived do you
[1:44:10] Speaker 7: think The bible is wrong about that or, like what
[1:44:12] Speaker 7: what is your view on the infallibility of The.
[1:44:15] Speaker 5: BIBLE i believe some texas are you, know the way
[1:44:22] Speaker 5: we can to see them that you, know we can
[1:44:26] Speaker 5: get a different understanding of the. VERSUS i was just
[1:44:29] Speaker 5: looking At, sorry is it THE dc.
[1:44:35] Speaker 1: Biber?
[1:44:36] Speaker 5: Version and that was pretty cool that we mentioned in. There,
[1:44:42] Speaker 5: WELL i think it opens it up a little. Bit
[1:44:46] Speaker 5: are you familiar with the version that he's. USING i
[1:44:50] Speaker 5: think it's is.
[1:44:51] Speaker 1: It THE nrsv that he's using or something?
[1:44:53] Speaker 3: ELSE i know he uses that pretty.
[1:44:54] Speaker 1: Frequently, yeah that's a pretty cool. VERSION i see IF
[1:45:00] Speaker 1: i can hack me one of those.
[1:45:02] Speaker 5: Versions but, yeah, NO i, MEAN i guess it's the
[1:45:04] Speaker 5: language used that can can give us a different perception
[1:45:09] Speaker 5: of what's been actually spoken of at the. TIME i,
[1:45:13] Speaker 5: understand you, know The New testament was had derived from
[1:45:18] Speaker 5: this children, texts The greek, texts which obviously it was
[1:45:25] Speaker 5: from The hebrew. Text but, yeah so there could be transliteration, issues. Definitely,
[1:45:32] Speaker 5: okay So i'm just.
[1:45:32] Speaker 7: Trying to nail down then how, like when you're reading
[1:45:36] Speaker 7: it now In, english do you trust that what you
[1:45:40] Speaker 7: are reading is all? True or when you read the
[1:45:43] Speaker 7: text do you, think, well some of this is probably,
[1:45:46] Speaker 7: true but it could have been, mistranslated SO i don't
[1:45:49] Speaker 7: know how much of The bible is actually.
[1:45:50] Speaker 1: True, yeah excellent.
[1:45:53] Speaker 5: Question i'd like To i'm not so sort of like
[1:45:58] Speaker 5: one version of The bible. ONLY i like to look
[1:46:04] Speaker 5: at multiple, versions like the NR, v nsv R v
[1:46:08] Speaker 5: as well As King, james BECAUSE i was told.
[1:46:12] Speaker 7: Yeah but regardless of which, Version i'm just like in
[1:46:15] Speaker 7: if in all The english versions it says that you,
[1:46:18] Speaker 7: Know jesus was born of a, virgin do you think
[1:46:22] Speaker 7: it's all, wrong like every version got it?
[1:46:25] Speaker 1: Wrong?
[1:46:29] Speaker 5: Yes, yes, yes well okay in the in the, yes,
[1:46:34] Speaker 5: no absolutely, no, yes that's.
[1:46:35] Speaker 1: Correct. Tons do you mind IF i read a passage
[1:46:37] Speaker 1: with you real? Quick, yes of, course BECAUSE i hear
[1:46:41] Speaker 1: what you're what you're, saying and you could, suggest, well
[1:46:45] Speaker 1: maybe that there's some translational issues and it's not supposed
[1:46:49] Speaker 1: to be read as a virgin. Birth BUT i, think,
[1:46:53] Speaker 1: UNFORTUNATELY i Think luke makes it hard to come to
[1:46:55] Speaker 1: that conclusion because it's in the birth. Narrative in the
[1:47:02] Speaker 1: six months of The Angel gabriel was sent To. God
[1:47:05] Speaker 1: i'm sorry By, god to a town In galilee Called,
[1:47:07] Speaker 1: nazareth to a. Virgin so she's virgin engaged to a
[1:47:11] Speaker 1: man whose name Was, joseph of the house Of. David
[1:47:14] Speaker 1: the virgin's name Was. Mary and he came to her and,
[1:47:17] Speaker 1: said greeting's favor would The lord is with. You but
[1:47:19] Speaker 1: she was much perplexed by his words and pondered what
[1:47:24] Speaker 1: sort of greeting this might. Be The angel said to,
[1:47:26] Speaker 1: her do not be, Afraid, mary for you have found
[1:47:28] Speaker 1: favor With, god and now you will. Conceive so she
[1:47:31] Speaker 1: hasn't conceived, yet, says now you will conceive in your
[1:47:34] Speaker 1: womb and bear a, son and you will name Him.
[1:47:37] Speaker 1: Jesus he will be great and will be called The
[1:47:39] Speaker 1: son of The Most, high and The Lord god will
[1:47:41] Speaker 1: give him a throne of his Ancestor. David he will
[1:47:44] Speaker 1: reign over the house Of Jacob frever and of his
[1:47:46] Speaker 1: kingdom Of. Buno And mary said to the, angels how
[1:47:49] Speaker 1: can this, be SINCE i am a? Virgin and The
[1:47:52] Speaker 1: angel said to, her The Holy spirit will come upon,
[1:47:54] Speaker 1: you and the power of The Most high will overshadow.
[1:47:55] Speaker 1: You therefore the child will be, born will be, holy
[1:47:59] Speaker 1: he will be called The son Of. God, so if
[1:48:02] Speaker 1: we're Taking luke, SERIOUSLY i think the virgin, birth the
[1:48:06] Speaker 1: immaculate conception seems to be in. There but you could, say,
[1:48:11] Speaker 1: WELL i just don't accept that.
[1:48:13] Speaker 5: Part, well, yeah because when we look At, ISAIAH i
[1:48:20] Speaker 5: believe It's isaiah fourteen when it, says, yeah a VIRGIN
[1:48:27] Speaker 5: i shall give, birth that that we're there As almah
[1:48:30] Speaker 5: in The, hebrew which can alwayso, mean you, know a young, damsel.
[1:48:37] Speaker 1: And it speaks Of.
[1:48:40] Speaker 5: I've been taught this that it speaks Of Isaiah's isaiah's
[1:48:46] Speaker 5: wife And manuel. Becoming even though.
[1:48:53] Speaker 1: That's my interpretation to, me.
[1:48:57] Speaker 5: Cool, cool, Cool, yes.
[1:49:01] Speaker 1: That's WHAT i.
[1:49:01] Speaker 5: MEAN i want to say that To, sarah it was
[1:49:05] Speaker 5: basically that it was, no it. Wasn't sorry, sorry it
[1:49:10] Speaker 5: was coworkers coming were skinned ready for.
[1:49:15] Speaker 1: Lunch, sorry.
[1:49:15] Speaker 5: Bro, yeah SO i can see, that you, know When
[1:49:21] Speaker 5: sarah was saying that there's misinterpretations or what DO i?
[1:49:26] Speaker 5: Believe CAN i not believe what's being? Said that that
[1:49:31] Speaker 5: that's WHY i, believe you, Know mary wasn't actually a,
[1:49:34] Speaker 5: virgin and that that the virgin that was supposed to
[1:49:38] Speaker 5: be spoken off was a young damsel because obviously she
[1:49:41] Speaker 5: had been a spoused To. Joseph and we don't we don't,
[1:49:46] Speaker 5: see we don't see you know that they didn't have any,
[1:49:53] Speaker 5: relations so to say they hadn't had, intercourse nor do
[1:49:57] Speaker 5: we see.
[1:49:58] Speaker 1: That they So mary says they.
[1:50:01] Speaker 7: Haven't it's the, problem Like mary is directly saying In,
[1:50:06] Speaker 7: LUKE i am a.
[1:50:08] Speaker 9: Virgin found it all over the place. Here yeah, no
[1:50:19] Speaker 9: could she be?
[1:50:19] Speaker 7: LYING i, mean well, no or LIKE i think you
[1:50:22] Speaker 7: have to, decide is can you trust the word that's
[1:50:27] Speaker 7: in the? Text you, Know so when week is claiming
[1:50:32] Speaker 7: that this interaction Between gabriel And mary, happened Is.
[1:50:37] Speaker 10: Luke wrong about?
[1:50:38] Speaker 7: It is it being reported? Incorrectly you, know it gives
[1:50:42] Speaker 7: you Some you're in a tough spot.
[1:50:44] Speaker 1: There, YEAH i mean it seems like they build a
[1:50:51] Speaker 1: whole doctrine on a. Mistranslation.
[1:50:54] Speaker 5: Mistranslation, yeah, Yeah i'm saying. THAT i, MEAN i DON'T
[1:51:02] Speaker 5: i don't sort of subscribe to any sort of denomination Of.
[1:51:08] Speaker 5: Christianity The i'm sort open to. Interpretation but can we
[1:51:15] Speaker 5: get to some some of the.
[1:51:16] Speaker 1: Lies that he?
[1:51:17] Speaker 9: SAID i, MEAN i think, Right.
[1:51:20] Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, please, yes, Please.
[1:51:24] Speaker 1: OKAY i, mean so we'll start, out BECAUSE i know
[1:51:27] Speaker 1: you're a work start out with some of the, short easy.
[1:51:29] Speaker 1: Ones let's Grab john seven and we're gonna do verses
[1:51:34] Speaker 1: seven through. TENS i think it's just the clearest example
[1:51:39] Speaker 1: Of jesus just saying something that he he lied. About
[1:51:44] Speaker 1: SO i put up on the. Screen so this is
[1:51:48] Speaker 1: in regards to going to a. Festival it, says go
[1:51:55] Speaker 1: to the festival. Yourselves talking to, disciples go to the festival,
[1:51:58] Speaker 1: YOURSELVES i am not going to this, festival for my
[1:52:01] Speaker 1: time has not yet fully. Come after saying, this he
[1:52:04] Speaker 1: remained In. Galilee but after his brothers had gone to the,
[1:52:08] Speaker 1: festival then he also, went not, publicly as it, were in,
[1:52:12] Speaker 1: Secret so he does end up.
[1:52:13] Speaker 5: GOING i mean THAT i can't say that that's a,
[1:52:23] Speaker 5: lie because you, know go to the festival. Yourselves i'm
[1:52:29] Speaker 5: not going to this, festival for my time has not
[1:52:32] Speaker 5: yet fully. Come after saying, this he remained In. GALILEE
[1:52:36] Speaker 5: i mean he his time had not fully, come and
[1:52:41] Speaker 5: HE i, MEAN i guess not not to say that
[1:52:45] Speaker 5: he was expecting to be, crucified BUT i mean we.
[1:52:53] Speaker 7: An hour later his time had come to go to the, Festival, like, hey,
[1:52:57] Speaker 7: BROS i can't go at, eight but like Maybe i'll
[1:52:59] Speaker 7: show up by ten because that's.
[1:53:00] Speaker 1: When, yeah because if that was his, intention wouldn't you just, say,
[1:53:05] Speaker 1: well i'll see you, there but later go on without.
[1:53:09] Speaker 1: Me i'll meet you there in a couple of.
[1:53:10] Speaker 11: Hours when you when you look at that from that
[1:53:22] Speaker 11: point of, view, definitely it's.
[1:53:25] Speaker 5: Tough it's it's. Concerning it's, concerning.
[1:53:31] Speaker 1: H. J i'll go.
[1:53:33] Speaker 5: AHEAD i Think I'm i'm listening to you even. More
[1:53:38] Speaker 5: i'm going to be buying a ticket to.
[1:53:41] Speaker 1: Hell BUT.
[1:53:46] Speaker 7: I, THINK i, MEAN i know you're, kidding but ALSO
[1:53:50] Speaker 7: i think it's Good, god it would never send you
[1:53:52] Speaker 7: to eternal torture for genuinely trying your best to.
[1:53:56] Speaker 12: Understand, GREAT i, agree actually, Absolutely I'M i, mean if
[1:54:01] Speaker 12: we're trying to look for, Truth, Jay i'm confounded on
[1:54:07] Speaker 12: just the three verses that you've put UP dc, sorry
[1:54:10] Speaker 12: the construction.
[1:54:11] Speaker 5: ZONE i don't know IF i want to be confounded any,
[1:54:16] Speaker 5: more BUT i hate.
[1:54:17] Speaker 1: If you're up or we can do one. More if,
[1:54:19] Speaker 1: NOT i don't, UNDERSTAND i don't.
[1:54:21] Speaker 5: Understand absolutely, absolutely please all, right well.
[1:54:24] Speaker 1: We'll do one. More so this is in regards To
[1:54:27] Speaker 1: jesus's second, coming and he, says, NOPE i typed in
[1:54:33] Speaker 1: the wrong. VERSE i Wanted matthew ten twenty, three not.
[1:54:36] Speaker 1: Thirteen so he sends the disciples out into the villages to,
[1:54:41] Speaker 1: preach and he, says when they persecute you in this,
[1:54:43] Speaker 1: town flee to the, Next for, TRULY i tell, you
[1:54:45] Speaker 1: will not have finished going through all the towns Of
[1:54:47] Speaker 1: israel before The son Of man. Comes and The son
[1:54:50] Speaker 1: Of man coming is a reference To daniel seven when
[1:54:54] Speaker 1: he's glorified in the heavens and he judges all of.
[1:54:56] Speaker 1: Mankind and then he reiterates this In matthew sixteen twenty
[1:55:01] Speaker 1: seven twenty. Eight he, says for The son Of man
[1:55:03] Speaker 1: is to come with his angels in the glory of his,
[1:55:05] Speaker 1: father and then he will repay everybody for what's been. Done,
[1:55:09] Speaker 1: TRULY i tell you there are some standing here who
[1:55:11] Speaker 1: will not taste death before they see The son Of
[1:55:14] Speaker 1: man coming in his, kingdom and they're all. Dead and
[1:55:18] Speaker 1: then he gets even more specific In matthew twenty four
[1:55:21] Speaker 1: when the disciples bluntly ask him when will you be coming,
[1:55:24] Speaker 1: back and he gives them a bunch of signs of the,
[1:55:27] Speaker 1: end he, says immediately after the suffering of those, days
[1:55:30] Speaker 1: the sun will be dark and the moon will not
[1:55:32] Speaker 1: give its. Light the stars will fall from, heaven and
[1:55:34] Speaker 1: the powers of heaven will be. Shaken then the sign
[1:55:37] Speaker 1: of The son Of man will appear in. Heaven so
[1:55:39] Speaker 1: we have already know the sign of The son Of
[1:55:40] Speaker 1: man is the. Judgment. Right then all the tribes of
[1:55:43] Speaker 1: the earth will. Mourn they will see The son Of
[1:55:45] Speaker 1: man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great.
[1:55:47] Speaker 1: Glory he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet,
[1:55:50] Speaker 1: call and they will gather his leg from the four,
[1:55:51] Speaker 1: winds from one end of heaven to the. Other, then he, says,
[1:55:55] Speaker 1: last from the trick fig, tree learn its. Lesson as
[1:55:58] Speaker 1: soon as his branches come tender and put forth as,
[1:56:01] Speaker 1: leaves you know that summer is. Near so also when
[1:56:04] Speaker 1: you see all of these, things you know that he
[1:56:06] Speaker 1: is near at the very. Gates, TRULY i tell, you
[1:56:09] Speaker 1: this generation will not pass away until all of these
[1:56:11] Speaker 1: things have taken.
[1:56:12] Speaker 5: Place, WELL i Think i've got mass first. One so
[1:56:18] Speaker 5: when it talks about this, generation we because for he
[1:56:25] Speaker 5: has a fulfilled you, Know or because LIKE i said
[1:56:29] Speaker 5: In matthew. Five he, says until we're having a nerve,
[1:56:32] Speaker 5: part sure all things be. Fulfilled so the generation that
[1:56:36] Speaker 5: he's talking about is Because, God god made a covenant
[1:56:41] Speaker 5: with his, people this chosen, people and it's a perpetual.
[1:56:46] Speaker 5: Covenant so perpetual obviously.
[1:56:51] Speaker 2: Meaning.
[1:56:52] Speaker 1: Forever and.
[1:56:55] Speaker 5: The generation that he's talking about is, basically you, know
[1:57:01] Speaker 5: the generation he's talking about is basically their, offspring those people's.
[1:57:06] Speaker 5: Offspring BECAUSE i NOT i don't believe in. Reincarnation but
[1:57:10] Speaker 5: when he says no to the disciples About, elijah you,
[1:57:18] Speaker 5: know do you believe say any he says That john Is,
[1:57:22] Speaker 5: elijah BUT i, knew no one knew about. It so
[1:57:25] Speaker 5: that's not. Reincarnation but that's a form of. Reincarnation so
[1:57:33] Speaker 5: when he says just generations shall not, pass he's talking about.
[1:57:39] Speaker 1: Future.
[1:57:39] Speaker 5: PROPHECY i don't know if if, that IF i can
[1:57:44] Speaker 5: if that answers your, Question, sorry but you Know i'm
[1:57:48] Speaker 5: a bit. NERVOUS i don't want to stand one more words.
[1:57:51] Speaker 1: Giving it your best. Goal so this is what a
[1:57:53] Speaker 1: lot of people. Say they'll, say, well this must be
[1:57:55] Speaker 1: a future. Generation, now in Typical, greek there is a
[1:57:58] Speaker 1: way to talk about future. Generations In, english we would
[1:58:02] Speaker 1: say that, generation that generation will not pass. Away but In,
[1:58:07] Speaker 1: greek here is this generation meaning this present generation in the,
[1:58:11] Speaker 1: now which is why The english transit Is, yeah, Exactly
[1:58:15] Speaker 1: and this makes much more, sense, right because the disciples are,
[1:58:18] Speaker 1: saying when will be the signs of your coming? Back
[1:58:20] Speaker 1: because they're expecting him to come back. Imminately, Right so
[1:58:23] Speaker 1: he gives them all these signs and then he gives
[1:58:25] Speaker 1: them the. Cutoff the cut off is this generation will
[1:58:29] Speaker 1: not pass away until all of these things have taken. Place,
[1:58:31] Speaker 1: now if this is just any future, generation meaning whatever
[1:58:35] Speaker 1: generation is alive at the Time jesus comes, back, well
[1:58:39] Speaker 1: then the data points useless because, yeah obviously that generation
[1:58:43] Speaker 1: is going to be. Alive that's the generation it's presumed
[1:58:48] Speaker 1: that when you come, back if there's people on the,
[1:58:49] Speaker 1: earth they're going to be. Alive they're going to be.
[1:58:51] Speaker 5: ALIVE i, mean could also be the the five hundred
[1:58:55] Speaker 5: that saw them in the book.
[1:58:56] Speaker 1: Facts so that's One corinthians chapter. Fifteen the five hundred
[1:59:01] Speaker 1: was mentioned By, Paul but, NO i don't think, so
[1:59:06] Speaker 1: because the signs that need to take place didn't take. Place.
[1:59:09] Speaker 1: Right it says that the sign of The son Of
[1:59:12] Speaker 1: man will appear in, heaven and then all the tribes
[1:59:15] Speaker 1: of the earth will, mourn and they'll see The son
[1:59:17] Speaker 1: Of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power
[1:59:19] Speaker 1: and great, glory and he will send out his angels
[1:59:21] Speaker 1: with a loud trumpet, call and they will gather his
[1:59:23] Speaker 1: elect from the four, wins from one end of heaven
[1:59:25] Speaker 1: to the. Other and they're still waiting for, this for,
[1:59:30] Speaker 1: like even As paul's writing his, letters like in The Second,
[1:59:33] Speaker 1: thessalonians chapter, four of Our First testonians chapter, four he's
[1:59:39] Speaker 1: still saying That jesus still has yet to come on
[1:59:42] Speaker 1: the clouds of heaven with the loud trumpet, call like
[1:59:44] Speaker 1: they're still waiting for. It they're still waiting for. It.
[1:59:48] Speaker 5: Yeah, ABSOLUTELY i totally believe, that as obviously it spouted
[1:59:55] Speaker 5: it again in The book of A. Relation so, Yeah
[2:00:02] Speaker 5: i'm not gonna. Lie i'm still a bit confounded on
[2:00:04] Speaker 5: those previous verses because it seems.
[2:00:08] Speaker 1: Like it seems like The jesus following is just a
[2:00:12] Speaker 1: failed end times apocalyptic culled From judaism based on the
[2:00:19] Speaker 1: writings Of jesus or the sayings Of, jesus and also
[2:00:23] Speaker 1: based on what we find in the in the letter
[2:00:27] Speaker 1: of The paul like and flipping four, Five paul, says
[2:00:31] Speaker 1: let your gentle bess be known to, all because The
[2:00:34] Speaker 1: lord is near The, lord, like what does that? Mean
[2:00:39] Speaker 1: he he says over and over again that the coming
[2:00:41] Speaker 1: Of jesus is like. Imminent. One peter four, says the
[2:00:45] Speaker 1: end of all things is near. Near, yes, yes, yes.
[2:00:51] Speaker 1: Right they were obviously expecting him to come back in their.
[2:00:54] Speaker 5: Lifetime, YEAH i get that that that's what they. EXPECTED i,
[2:01:02] Speaker 5: MEAN i believe that when when they, did when they
[2:01:06] Speaker 5: did pass on or we're, underlived that's that's what that
[2:01:13] Speaker 5: could have. Meant but, YEAH i still go on the
[2:01:18] Speaker 5: fact THAT i still go on the fact, that you,
[2:01:23] Speaker 5: know to heaven and earth pass is basically What jesus
[2:01:27] Speaker 5: was talking.
[2:01:27] Speaker 1: About BUT.
[2:01:31] Speaker 5: I, KNOW i Think i'm Gonna i'm gonna ramble on
[2:01:33] Speaker 5: and this son of The son of my belief right
[2:01:37] Speaker 5: here in front of, them you, know your your your.
[2:01:39] Speaker 5: Crowd i'm actually going to go back to join board on.
[2:01:43] Speaker 1: This. Yeah so so go ahead and spend some time
[2:01:48] Speaker 1: thinking about some of these points and coming back in
[2:01:51] Speaker 1: the future and let us know where you're.
[2:01:52] Speaker 5: AT i definitely WILL i appreciate your. Time thank, You,
[2:01:55] Speaker 5: Sarah you're insight with was excellent as. Well they nice
[2:02:00] Speaker 5: to meet. You both say, yeah, BUDDY i have a great.
[2:02:04] Speaker 5: One nice.
[2:02:08] Speaker 1: Guy he was. Lovely you don't get a lot of
[2:02:11] Speaker 1: really nice people up. Here usually they're coming in and
[2:02:14] Speaker 1: they're pretty they're pretty upset about the.
[2:02:17] Speaker 13: Prompt, yeah you, know he.
[2:02:20] Speaker 7: WAS i think it takes a lot of bravery and
[2:02:25] Speaker 7: humility to be in front of this big crowd who
[2:02:28] Speaker 7: disagrees with you and for you to, say, OH i
[2:02:32] Speaker 7: might be wrong about, That like that's really hard to.
[2:02:35] Speaker 1: Do so, truly, like huge kudos to. Him that was,
[2:02:38] Speaker 1: awesome big. Time i'm gonna grab a couple of super
[2:02:41] Speaker 1: chests and then we're gonna Get joe in from our
[2:02:43] Speaker 1: TikTok q who has been waiting for a. While jesse
[2:02:46] Speaker 1: beat thank you for the supertest, says if you're really,
[2:02:48] Speaker 1: nice it's Not if you're really, nice it's not. Great
[2:02:51] Speaker 1: it's just forced. Arrangement god's perfect. Morals, yeah we. SORRY
[2:02:55] Speaker 1: i don't know if you saw the conversation With, jack
[2:02:57] Speaker 1: but Boy jack really bit some bullets reading The Old.
[2:03:00] Speaker 1: Testament it was, rough it was, rough really justifying war.
[2:03:04] Speaker 1: Grape Chris by, says do you think it's valid to
[2:03:09] Speaker 1: Drop matthew twenty five thirty one through forty six On
[2:03:12] Speaker 1: mega to illustrate oh that their god king is going
[2:03:17] Speaker 1: to the fiery pits of? Heck is there a that's
[2:03:20] Speaker 1: out of context argument that holds? Up? Okay, so WHEN
[2:03:24] Speaker 1: i was In catholic, school this was actually a discussion
[2:03:26] Speaker 1: that we had with our, teacher and she agrees with,
[2:03:30] Speaker 1: you AND i agree with, her which is that If
[2:03:32] Speaker 1: jesus's words have any, meaning it's that doing What jesus
[2:03:36] Speaker 1: asked you to, do namely taking care of the poor
[2:03:38] Speaker 1: and the needy and the, children counts for something. RIGHT
[2:03:42] Speaker 1: i don't believe that the Historical jesus taught What paul.
[2:03:46] Speaker 1: TAUGHT i do not think that the Historical jesus told
[2:03:49] Speaker 1: you that if you just believe the wrong, thing you're
[2:03:51] Speaker 1: burning forever. INTERNITY i Think jesus was probably more like
[2:03:54] Speaker 1: The jews of a time period that taught that you
[2:03:57] Speaker 1: need to be good and righteous Before. God that's what
[2:04:00] Speaker 1: he's looking. For he's looking for people who walk humbly
[2:04:03] Speaker 1: and upright and treat others with. Respect that seems to
[2:04:06] Speaker 1: be what Most jews Of jesus' time period, believed and
[2:04:10] Speaker 1: it seems to be what the Historical jesus probably. Believed
[2:04:12] Speaker 1: carnegi just started to think you for the ten hour
[2:04:14] Speaker 1: super Chat friend, says those babies had sinful. Bodies is
[2:04:18] Speaker 1: probably the most yest officer this man right Here i've
[2:04:22] Speaker 1: ever heard on your. Stream, yes you nailed. It he
[2:04:26] Speaker 1: would turn in his own mother if that was the.
[2:04:28] Speaker 1: Case time to put down The internet for the night
[2:04:30] Speaker 1: and take a scalding hot shower you need after that
[2:04:34] Speaker 1: after talking To, jack everyone needs a. SHOWER i have
[2:04:37] Speaker 1: to scrape some stuff off. Me, ben thank you so
[2:04:41] Speaker 1: much for the twin hour Superchat friend is, huge it,
[2:04:43] Speaker 1: says all Hailed, justin the True messiah Of. Doug considering
[2:04:47] Speaker 1: doing a live as a disciple Of justin to preach
[2:04:49] Speaker 1: the gospel of false. PROPHECY i would love. It, Ben
[2:04:53] Speaker 1: let me know when and where And i'll show. Up
[2:04:55] Speaker 1: i'll be their. Friend just give me the, Deats give
[2:04:58] Speaker 1: me the. Deats thom, says in my, Opinion jack is
[2:05:01] Speaker 1: a serial killer in the, making if he hasn't already. Started, yes,
[2:05:06] Speaker 1: YES i. Agree so if you go back and watch
[2:05:09] Speaker 1: The i'll Clip jack, eventually if you see, it you'll
[2:05:11] Speaker 1: know exactly what it. Was. Rough it was a tough.
[2:05:14] Speaker 1: One you did not want to be here for that,
[2:05:19] Speaker 1: one like you would have been pulling your hair.
[2:05:21] Speaker 3: Out AS i am known to.
[2:05:24] Speaker 1: Do jessica the Trans Metal alchemists is cultural assimilation isn't
[2:05:31] Speaker 1: a harmless academic thought. Experience it's a living reality today
[2:05:34] Speaker 1: for indigenous people across THE, Us canada And, australia who
[2:05:38] Speaker 1: bear the generational trauma of. Colonialism, yes that is the.
[2:05:42] Speaker 1: Case that is the. Case but if you're a, believer
[2:05:45] Speaker 1: you justify. It you justify this type of forced colonialism
[2:05:50] Speaker 1: because Your god tells you and because not doing it
[2:05:53] Speaker 1: makes you. Wrong Camber maid says women that are forced
[2:05:57] Speaker 1: to get married after getting graped aren't living a great married.
[2:06:00] Speaker 1: Life they're just getting graped With god's permission for the
[2:06:04] Speaker 1: rest of their. Lives that is. It and if they
[2:06:06] Speaker 1: ever become okay with, it that's Called stockholm. Syndrome you
[2:06:10] Speaker 1: should never get used, to you should never have to
[2:06:13] Speaker 1: tolerate and get used to getting. Graped that's, rape no matter.
[2:06:17] Speaker 1: What And Internet, shrimp thank you for the tenor or super.
[2:06:20] Speaker 1: Thing SO i appreciate that what a good. Name don't
[2:06:23] Speaker 1: tell yahweh about your, situation, Though zach, says think of
[2:06:27] Speaker 1: a Supersized zach, says what do you think Of Andrew
[2:06:29] Speaker 1: wilson as a? DEBATER i think he's a standard pre.
[2:06:32] Speaker 1: Supper but the thing that he does well that other
[2:06:35] Speaker 1: people don't take note of is rather than supplying an,
[2:06:39] Speaker 1: Argument So Andrew wilson almost never supplies an argument or.
[2:06:42] Speaker 1: Position he'll do everything he can to not have an
[2:06:45] Speaker 1: argument and not have a, position because then you can't
[2:06:48] Speaker 1: debate against, him, Right so then what he does is
[2:06:51] Speaker 1: he forces you to lay out your, argument and he'll
[2:06:54] Speaker 1: spend the whole conversation trying to poke holes in your,
[2:06:56] Speaker 1: argument and then you look silly if he can find
[2:06:59] Speaker 1: something in assistant in your, argument and then he just
[2:07:01] Speaker 1: walks away claiming to have. Won but that's not how
[2:07:05] Speaker 1: you actually defend your. Position you have to actually take
[2:07:08] Speaker 1: a position and then defend it and then actually have
[2:07:11] Speaker 1: statements that you claim and provide premisses for those. Statements
[2:07:15] Speaker 1: he doesn't typically do. That he, literally like if you
[2:07:18] Speaker 1: watch them of his, debates he'll he'll not even have
[2:07:20] Speaker 1: an opening. Statement he'll skip the opening, statement and then
[2:07:24] Speaker 1: he won't even have anything. Prepared he'll go right into
[2:07:27] Speaker 1: a rebuttal against the other person's opening. Statement so the
[2:07:30] Speaker 1: whole debate is just him trying to not take a. Position,
[2:07:35] Speaker 1: Godless goddess Of, rebel thank you for the twenty hours super.
[2:07:39] Speaker 2: Chap.
[2:07:39] Speaker 1: Friend it, SAYS i think you said That jesus had
[2:07:41] Speaker 1: access to the scriptures In greek but didn't know Ancient. Hebrew,
[2:07:44] Speaker 1: yes that is the. Case how did the scriptures come
[2:07:46] Speaker 1: to Be greek Not hebrew Or aramaic For jesus to
[2:07:49] Speaker 1: get it? Wrong so there's a story like the story
[2:07:53] Speaker 1: is told in The letter Of aristeus and the way
[2:07:55] Speaker 1: it goes, down there was a bunch Of jews living
[2:07:58] Speaker 1: in Ancient egypt under The Alexandrian, kingdom and they wanted
[2:08:04] Speaker 1: a copy of The torah for The alexandrian, library and
[2:08:08] Speaker 1: so they brought in Seventy ish scribes to translate The
[2:08:13] Speaker 1: torah and put it into the, library and then subsequently
[2:08:17] Speaker 1: they theoretically translated the rest of. Them but we're not
[2:08:19] Speaker 1: told when and when it. Happened we're only told about
[2:08:22] Speaker 1: when The torah gets. Translated so, anyways let's grab our next,
[2:08:27] Speaker 1: Guest joe coming into the. Chat welcome, In, Jim, Yeah,
[2:08:47] Speaker 1: joe were you on hold too? Long? Joe, Okay, WELL
[2:08:57] Speaker 1: i guess we'll Grab caleb. Next Since joe's not with.
[2:09:01] Speaker 1: Us sorry about, That, CALEB i hope you're still with.
[2:09:05] Speaker 1: US i see your cameras On. Caleb are you with?
[2:09:10] Speaker 4: Us?
[2:09:14] Speaker 2: Caleb?
[2:09:15] Speaker 1: Caleb caleb is no longer with. Us i'll drop him.
[2:09:19] Speaker 1: BACK i, Wait i'll. Wait he must be he must
[2:09:22] Speaker 1: have had to go run to the restroom or. Something
[2:09:24] Speaker 1: when he comes. Back, well we'll Grab caleb for then
[2:09:28] Speaker 1: let's get our next. Guests we'll Grab. Becca. Jean, well come, Then. Beca.
[2:09:37] Speaker 13: Hi how's it going?
[2:09:38] Speaker 1: Good are? You i'm doing all?
[2:09:41] Speaker 13: RIGHT i ADMIT i don't know THAT i really uh
[2:09:46] Speaker 13: am able to prove you. WRONG i don't really have
[2:09:48] Speaker 13: the desire to prove you. WRONG i GUESS i have
[2:09:51] Speaker 13: a question for. You what is it that brought you
[2:09:55] Speaker 13: to the conclusion That jesus was a?
[2:09:58] Speaker 1: Liar?
[2:09:59] Speaker 13: Like what what's like the top? Tier saying that just
[2:10:05] Speaker 13: kinda made you think about the question in the first.
[2:10:09] Speaker 1: Place reading The, BIBLE i think the first thing that
[2:10:14] Speaker 1: piqued my interest to the idea was reading the prophecies
[2:10:19] Speaker 1: about The, messiah Which jesus definitely did not, fulfill and
[2:10:24] Speaker 1: then reading The New testament and Seeing jesus talking endlessly
[2:10:27] Speaker 1: about being The. Messiah but the reality is The messiah
[2:10:30] Speaker 1: in The Hebrew bible is not The messiah of The New.
[2:10:32] Speaker 1: Testament they're completely different.
[2:10:33] Speaker 13: Individuals, okay, YEAH i am definitely. DECONSTRUCTING i have been
[2:10:41] Speaker 13: for quite a. While it, does it's not you don't
[2:10:48] Speaker 13: just make the decision to not believe In god. ANYMORE
[2:10:50] Speaker 13: i GUESS i consider myself the agnostic some days and
[2:10:54] Speaker 13: an atheists other.
[2:10:55] Speaker 1: Day, WELL i was in the same place for a long.
[2:10:58] Speaker 1: TIME i was, like, WELL i was Like christian for
[2:11:00] Speaker 1: like twenty, years and THEN i moved into like super
[2:11:04] Speaker 1: Liberal christianity WHEN i was In bible college and, seminary
[2:11:08] Speaker 1: and then by the TIME i graduated, SEMINARY i was.
[2:11:11] Speaker 1: AGNOSTIC i was, like there's probably Still. GOD i don't
[2:11:14] Speaker 1: think it's this. One this one doesn't make a lot of.
[2:11:15] Speaker 1: Sense but Now i'm an. Atheist so it took me
[2:11:19] Speaker 1: a long time to get to this. Point but let
[2:11:21] Speaker 1: me ask you a couple of. Questions are you strictly
[2:11:23] Speaker 1: in the agnostic or do you feel like you're like
[2:11:26] Speaker 1: an Agnostic. CHRISTIAN i am not A, christian, okay so
[2:11:31] Speaker 1: just straight up.
[2:11:32] Speaker 13: Agnostic, YEAH i do want to sit down with The.
[2:11:37] Speaker 13: Bible AND i haven't read The bible through SINCE i started.
[2:11:44] Speaker 13: DECONSTRUCTING i still have My. BIBLE i haven't read The
[2:11:49] Speaker 13: bible as a non believer, yet So i'm Definitely i'm
[2:11:53] Speaker 13: planning on rereading.
[2:11:56] Speaker 2: It BUT.
[2:11:58] Speaker 13: I think That i'm not really expecting to revert back To.
[2:12:03] Speaker 13: CHRISTIANITY i think that for me going back to The
[2:12:06] Speaker 13: bible and rereading, it WHAT i plan to get out of,
[2:12:09] Speaker 13: it more so than anything is who's saying what they're,
[2:12:14] Speaker 13: saying rather than even just what they're. SAYING i want to.
[2:12:17] Speaker 13: KNOW i want to know who's talking and who has
[2:12:20] Speaker 13: the who in The bible believes themselves to have, authority
[2:12:26] Speaker 13: you know WHAT i, Mean like like who are these
[2:12:29] Speaker 13: people in the first? Place AND i Guess I'M i
[2:12:33] Speaker 13: won't pretend to know like the origin of The bible,
[2:12:36] Speaker 13: Either LIKE i know that it's said to Be god,
[2:12:38] Speaker 13: breathed which not to sound disrespectful to other, believers like
[2:12:42] Speaker 13: two believers at, ALL i just it just sounds insane to.
[2:12:46] Speaker 2: Me.
[2:12:47] Speaker 1: Yeah oh, WELL i don't know IF i can agree
[2:12:50] Speaker 1: much more than. THAT i think we're in agreement. There
[2:12:54] Speaker 1: SO i mean typically we do do a debate. Night,
[2:12:59] Speaker 1: ACTUALLY i would say most of our debate nights we
[2:13:01] Speaker 1: do the topic of whether or Not god is. Real,
[2:13:06] Speaker 1: so and keep in, mind you, know not all of
[2:13:09] Speaker 1: our debates are actually. DEBATES a lot of people come
[2:13:11] Speaker 1: in and they just want to have a. Discussion, uh
[2:13:14] Speaker 1: so tonight we're not doing. That so but But i'll
[2:13:17] Speaker 1: tell you, What i'll be alive again most of the
[2:13:19] Speaker 1: nights this like, tomorrow the next, Night friday, night coming back,
[2:13:25] Speaker 1: sometime and let's talk about The god, topic not the
[2:13:27] Speaker 1: not The christianity. Topic let's just talk about The god,
[2:13:30] Speaker 1: topic BECAUSE i think there's a lot to say, there
[2:13:33] Speaker 1: at least a lot to think. About but for, Tonight
[2:13:37] Speaker 1: i'm gonna try to keep it. On SO i haven't
[2:13:39] Speaker 1: done this topic in like, months But i'd love to
[2:13:44] Speaker 1: talk to you on the other. Topic but since we're
[2:13:46] Speaker 1: since we're already, Here i'm going to try to get
[2:13:48] Speaker 1: this one taken care. Of BUT i would also encourage
[2:13:51] Speaker 1: you to join our. Discord so we've got a friend
[2:13:53] Speaker 1: of the, Community. Benny benny set up a discord last. Summer,
[2:13:56] Speaker 1: now it's been a year since The discord has been
[2:13:59] Speaker 1: open for people that are, deconstructing people that are already
[2:14:01] Speaker 1: deconstructed and. WHATNOT i think it's a really good. Community
[2:14:04] Speaker 1: we've got a lot of people in there that are
[2:14:07] Speaker 1: that are pretty active and so and there's a lot
[2:14:10] Speaker 1: of people. There we've got like science nerds, There bible nerds,
[2:14:13] Speaker 1: there history nerds, there and so, LIKE i think it's
[2:14:16] Speaker 1: a really good. Place like if you have questions or
[2:14:18] Speaker 1: you need reading, recommendation things like, THAT i highly recommend
[2:14:22] Speaker 1: being a part of The. Discord.
[2:14:24] Speaker 13: Sick thank you so. Much sorry for straying from the.
[2:14:27] Speaker 13: TOPIC i appreciate you so.
[2:14:28] Speaker 1: Much, okay it's, Okay Thanks, becca thank, You bye me W.
[2:14:35] Speaker 1: Beca deconstructing is not always, easy not always, easy But
[2:14:41] Speaker 1: becca's doing, It SO i, mean W beca with, That
[2:14:45] Speaker 1: let me GRAB i was gonna Grab caleb. Next caleb
[2:14:49] Speaker 1: is still not. Back So i'll move on to j
[2:14:51] Speaker 1: Robsonce caleb's not, back and, we'll you, know we'll move
[2:14:54] Speaker 1: through the. CYCLE i don't know what happened To. Caleb
[2:14:58] Speaker 1: Maybe i'll come back. Later Hey, rob are you with?
[2:15:04] Speaker 14: Us Hey i'm, Here Hey, Jay. Robin, hey you're Somebody
[2:15:14] Speaker 14: i'm pretty.
[2:15:14] Speaker 1: Bad, yeah the connection is really rough right. Now it
[2:15:20] Speaker 1: shows that you're you've got like red. Bars do you
[2:15:24] Speaker 1: have Any Wi? FI i do? That why it's not popping?
[2:15:28] Speaker 2: Up mm hmm because you've been.
[2:15:33] Speaker 1: Uh even who like WH i can't?
[2:15:37] Speaker 3: CALL i think WHAT i can just, UH i can
[2:15:41] Speaker 3: call back here you said the next, DAY i can.
[2:15:45] Speaker 1: Call Tomorrow's. Wednesday. RIGHT i want to get on at
[2:15:54] Speaker 1: one o'clock And i'm gonna stream TILL i fall. Asleep
[2:15:57] Speaker 1: Probably i'm In eastern time, zone So i'll be on
[2:16:06] Speaker 1: at one O'clock eastern.
[2:16:07] Speaker 2: Time perfect more WHEN i would working.
[2:16:14] Speaker 1: And chat, alright, Perfect See, jereb that was not the
[2:16:21] Speaker 1: J rob we know from TikTok, bertram thank you for the.
[2:16:24] Speaker 1: FIREWORKS i super appreciate, that, buddy big W i see
[2:16:28] Speaker 1: a bunch of people, saying get. Rusty thank you for
[2:16:30] Speaker 1: the love. PAINT i really appreciate. That uh And flacco
[2:16:34] Speaker 1: said a, KIDDY i would my kiddy's afraid of heights
[2:16:38] Speaker 1: or else he would be up here with me during the.
[2:16:41] Speaker 1: Streams he's on a cushion just over here next to.
[2:16:45] Speaker 1: Me you guys can't see him but he's a beautiful,
[2:16:48] Speaker 1: cat just just a gorgeous. Cat but he doesn't climb
[2:16:52] Speaker 1: up on the desk or climb up on. Me in,
[2:16:54] Speaker 1: fact it took me a while to get him to
[2:16:56] Speaker 1: climb up on the. COUCH i think part of it
[2:16:58] Speaker 1: was BECAUSE I i don't, KNOW i hate to say,
[2:17:01] Speaker 1: it but he was you guys know the saying that you,
[2:17:04] Speaker 1: know fat cats don't fall so. Gracefully, well that was
[2:17:09] Speaker 1: kind of his. Situation he was really obese WHEN i got.
[2:17:12] Speaker 1: HIM i finally got him down to a Normal, catwait
[2:17:14] Speaker 1: and he's getting up and down on couches and beds
[2:17:17] Speaker 1: and things like that, now but he's still kind of
[2:17:20] Speaker 1: scared of going up, high kind of. Scared but eventually
[2:17:22] Speaker 1: you get to see the. Kiddy don't. Worry all, Right caleb's.
[2:17:26] Speaker 1: Done god took. Him let me see If dave is
[2:17:29] Speaker 1: in the. Queue let's Grab. Dave, dave how you? Doing
[2:17:35] Speaker 1: not coming? Through all? Right? Yeah you're coming?
[2:17:37] Speaker 2: Through?
[2:17:37] Speaker 1: Great how you, Doing?
[2:17:38] Speaker 2: Dave how you? Doing? Man?
[2:17:40] Speaker 1: Great great? Things for IF i can get video on,
[2:17:42] Speaker 1: here if, it if it chops.
[2:17:43] Speaker 2: Up.
[2:17:45] Speaker 1: Looks, good it's going. On So, dave are you at
[2:17:50] Speaker 1: least eighteen and are you a, believer, yes, Sir and
[2:17:55] Speaker 1: do you agree or disagree with the prompt on the?
[2:17:57] Speaker 2: Screen, well of course, ye to hear what you're for
[2:18:09] Speaker 2: maybe like an hour, now, yeah and just like.
[2:18:14] Speaker 1: Is, dave let me let me check one thing real.
[2:18:17] Speaker 1: Quick when you turned your camera, on your audio got
[2:18:20] Speaker 1: kind of. Funny. This let me see if that fixes.
[2:18:24] Speaker 2: It how are we doing?
[2:18:25] Speaker 1: NOW i think that's. GOOD i think you were just
[2:18:27] Speaker 1: running out of bandwidth and it was doing some funny
[2:18:31] Speaker 1: things to the to the. Audio and not that we
[2:18:34] Speaker 1: don't want to see your, face but we want to
[2:18:35] Speaker 1: hear you for. SURE i. WOULDN'T i think YOU'RE i
[2:18:40] Speaker 1: think you're okay right?
[2:18:41] Speaker 2: Now? Yeah.
[2:18:42] Speaker 1: Awesome so uh, so my, Claim, dave is That jesus
[2:18:45] Speaker 1: was a liar and a. Fraud the claim that he
[2:18:48] Speaker 1: was a, liar there's a lot of place you can
[2:18:50] Speaker 1: you can go with. That the claim with the fraud
[2:18:52] Speaker 1: is based on the idea that he claimed to be
[2:18:55] Speaker 1: The messiah and he just simply wasn't The messiah with
[2:18:58] Speaker 1: one of these two, top would you prefer to start
[2:19:01] Speaker 1: with the lying or the fraud?
[2:19:02] Speaker 2: PART i guess like so maybe. FRAUD i think they're
[2:19:07] Speaker 2: kind of tied up. RIGHT i, mean would you agree
[2:19:10] Speaker 2: like being a fraud is being a liar in a.
[2:19:13] Speaker 1: Way, RIGHT i do. Agree now it could be true
[2:19:19] Speaker 1: that you're a, fraud but you're an accident or fraud
[2:19:22] Speaker 1: like you're. MISTAKEN i think that could be the. Case in,
[2:19:25] Speaker 1: fact IF i was going to put money on, IT
[2:19:26] Speaker 1: i would say that is the case With. JESUS i,
[2:19:28] Speaker 1: say if there's a Real, jesus he probably thought he
[2:19:31] Speaker 1: was a messiah then he just.
[2:19:33] Speaker 2: Wasn't just so we can like make sure we're levels.
[2:19:37] Speaker 2: That do you believe in a Historical?
[2:19:39] Speaker 1: Christ? YEAH i? Do, okay, Okay.
[2:19:42] Speaker 2: So like you Believe jesus actually, lived and do you
[2:19:46] Speaker 2: believe he was?
[2:19:47] Speaker 1: CRUCIFIED i think it was. Crucified i've got some doubt
[2:19:51] Speaker 1: as to the exact manner of, death only because The
[2:19:57] Speaker 1: jews right in The talmud and said he forty THREE
[2:20:00] Speaker 1: a and they wrote about him a couple of times
[2:20:02] Speaker 1: in The, talmud but they didn't they really didn't like this.
[2:20:05] Speaker 1: Guy but In Saint kington forty THREE a they say
[2:20:08] Speaker 1: that they stoned him and then they hung him up
[2:20:10] Speaker 1: on the. Wood so but either, WAY i think we
[2:20:14] Speaker 1: still get to the end, point which is at some
[2:20:16] Speaker 1: point that dude ended up on a piece of. Wood, okay,
[2:20:20] Speaker 1: Okay SO i mean you know you have a historical
[2:20:23] Speaker 1: view Of.
[2:20:23] Speaker 2: Christ now what would you say about BECAUSE i think
[2:20:27] Speaker 2: if we're going to the fraud, direction, Right, christ you
[2:20:30] Speaker 2: believe The gospels were you, know, like what is your
[2:20:34] Speaker 2: belief about The?
[2:20:35] Speaker 1: GOSPELS i know someone called In so my belief on
[2:20:41] Speaker 1: The gospels is that they were written much. Later in,
[2:20:47] Speaker 1: fact let, me let Me i'll give a little bit
[2:20:49] Speaker 1: of credit to The. Bible you, know a lot of
[2:20:52] Speaker 1: people kind of get upset because the seems like The
[2:20:56] Speaker 1: gospels were written so much later than The jesus. Figure
[2:20:59] Speaker 1: BUT i think the reason why this is is because
[2:21:03] Speaker 1: everybody in The New testament time, Period, jesus his, Followers,
[2:21:07] Speaker 1: paul they Believe jesus was coming back imminently like any, day,
[2:21:11] Speaker 1: says you, know the hour is, near, right it's at.
[2:21:14] Speaker 1: Hand so why do you need to write all this nonsense.
[2:21:17] Speaker 1: Down it's not until all of the disciples are getting
[2:21:19] Speaker 1: old that's clear that they're going to, die that they
[2:21:23] Speaker 1: finally write the stuff, down, like, oh we actually we
[2:21:26] Speaker 1: might not be we might not. Survive we actually need
[2:21:28] Speaker 1: to write this stuff. Down then we finally get people
[2:21:30] Speaker 1: writing stuff. Down so that being, said WHAT i don't
[2:21:36] Speaker 1: know is how much was written down is authentically from
[2:21:40] Speaker 1: the disciples and how much was added to, later because
[2:21:42] Speaker 1: we have a lot of evidence of the biblical manuscripts
[2:21:45] Speaker 1: being added to. Later so it's hard for me to
[2:21:50] Speaker 1: know WHICH i would personally find to be original in
[2:21:54] Speaker 1: which is not. ORIGINAL i kind of lost track of
[2:21:58] Speaker 1: the question. THOUGH i forgot the, question and what was?
[2:22:00] Speaker 2: It?
[2:22:00] Speaker 1: Dave, DAVE i think your connection rose on.
[2:22:05] Speaker 2: Me can you hear me?
[2:22:08] Speaker 1: Now? Yep, okay, YEAH i heard everything you.
[2:22:11] Speaker 2: Said SO i want to make sure we kind of
[2:22:13] Speaker 2: we're going through bibical, text SO i want to know
[2:22:15] Speaker 2: what you thought about like Did john was he actually
[2:22:19] Speaker 2: writing About? Jesus Did jesus say those? Things do you
[2:22:21] Speaker 2: believe that he said those? Things? LIKE i, mean because
[2:22:25] Speaker 2: a lot of the TEXTS i would go to that, says, Hey,
[2:22:27] Speaker 2: jesus you, know actually claim to Be you, know you're
[2:22:31] Speaker 2: talking to someone about Was jesus The son Of? God
[2:22:34] Speaker 2: and you know you look at text Like john one one,
[2:22:36] Speaker 2: right like do you you? DON'T i, MEAN i know
[2:22:39] Speaker 2: you don't believe that, text but do you believe That
[2:22:43] Speaker 2: john was a disciple Of. Christ he actually wrote those
[2:22:45] Speaker 2: things and says in the beginning was The word and
[2:22:48] Speaker 2: the words With, god and The word Was.
[2:22:49] Speaker 1: God, Right, so, LIKE i guess.
[2:22:51] Speaker 2: What is your belief about the gospels that you just
[2:22:54] Speaker 2: do you just kind of accept some of those things
[2:22:56] Speaker 2: or or not all of, them because you were kind
[2:22:58] Speaker 2: of pointing out certain text LIKE i Think john seven
[2:23:01] Speaker 2: your appoint, yet, Right And i'm, curious like when you
[2:23:06] Speaker 2: see those, texts like read Texts jesus said, this and you're, saying,
[2:23:09] Speaker 2: Oh jesus lied, Here, well like do you actually Believe
[2:23:11] Speaker 2: jesus lied or that text was Actually jesus, speaking you,
[2:23:16] Speaker 2: know like because if you don't believe in the, gospel,
[2:23:19] Speaker 2: right then you can't even really look at that text and, say,
[2:23:21] Speaker 2: Hey jesus live because you don't believe.
[2:23:23] Speaker 1: In the, text or do you believe in the. TEXT
[2:23:25] Speaker 1: i think almost almost the entirety Of john is. LUDICROUS
[2:23:29] Speaker 1: i don't think he said half the stuff he said
[2:23:31] Speaker 1: in The book Of. JOHN i think a more accurate
[2:23:33] Speaker 1: depiction Of jesus shows up in The gospel Of. Mark
[2:23:36] Speaker 1: but for this, topic, actually that's not actually the. Point
[2:23:40] Speaker 1: my point with this topic is not to say this
[2:23:42] Speaker 1: is original and this isn't. Original my point with this topic,
[2:23:45] Speaker 1: is like with what we do have in the, book,
[2:23:48] Speaker 1: like IF i just take the book for what it,
[2:23:50] Speaker 1: Is jesus is clearly a liar and a fraud within this. Book, okay,
[2:23:54] Speaker 1: Okay So i'll give you kind of an example of
[2:23:59] Speaker 1: What i'm talking. About so In john thirteen eighteen And
[2:24:04] Speaker 1: psalm forty, one we find like this really interesting. Situation
[2:24:08] Speaker 1: let's Grab psalm forty one first and we're going to
[2:24:14] Speaker 1: do five through. NINE i don't know if you have A,
[2:24:18] Speaker 1: bible But i'm gonna read. It, Yeah i'm catching up
[2:24:21] Speaker 1: to you. Here forty one he, Said, Yeah psalm forty.
[2:24:24] Speaker 1: One So psalm forty one is a psalm of Lament you,
[2:24:30] Speaker 1: Know david was quite famous for his songs psalms of,
[2:24:34] Speaker 1: lamentation and so what we read in this particular lamentation
[2:24:39] Speaker 1: a part of. It at. Least he, says my enemies
[2:24:41] Speaker 1: wonder in malice WHEN i die and my name. Perish
[2:24:47] Speaker 1: i'm sorry WHEN i will die and my name. Perish
[2:24:50] Speaker 1: and when they come to see, me the utter empty,
[2:24:52] Speaker 1: words while their hearts gather. Mischief when they go out
[2:24:56] Speaker 1: they tell it. Abroad all who hate me whisper together about.
[2:24:59] Speaker 1: Me they imagine the worst for. Me they think that
[2:25:02] Speaker 1: a deadly thing has fastened on, me THAT i will
[2:25:05] Speaker 1: not rise again from WHERE i. Lie even my close
[2:25:08] Speaker 1: friend and WHOM i, trust who ate of my, bread
[2:25:11] Speaker 1: has lifted his heel against. Me Now i'm writing this
[2:25:15] Speaker 1: passage And i'm saying to, myself, oh, sure this is
[2:25:18] Speaker 1: just a lament Of King. David so the PROBLEM i
[2:25:23] Speaker 1: have Is jesus reads this and he's, like, nope it's.
[2:25:25] Speaker 1: Prophetic john thirteen, eighteen when he talks about his betrayal
[2:25:30] Speaker 1: and singles out one, person he, Says i'm not speaking
[2:25:33] Speaker 1: of all of, YOU i know Whom i've, chosen but
[2:25:35] Speaker 1: it is to fulfill the. Scriptures the one who ate
[2:25:38] Speaker 1: my bread has lifted his heel against. Me but if
[2:25:41] Speaker 1: you're Reading psalm forty, one there's no reason why you
[2:25:44] Speaker 1: would ever read that and believe that that single line
[2:25:48] Speaker 1: is a prophecy about The. Messiah it's Just david, lamenting.
[2:25:54] Speaker 2: Right so you, KNOW i Guess i'm kind of curious
[2:25:57] Speaker 2: where you're going with, that because with you, right A
[2:26:01] Speaker 2: hebrew of that time without Hearing christ SAYING i wouldn't be, like,
[2:26:04] Speaker 2: hey this is about, me, Right AND i think that's
[2:26:06] Speaker 2: that is in accordance with The, gospels, right you, KNOW
[2:26:09] Speaker 2: i think of you, know the rot to amis Where
[2:26:12] Speaker 2: christ goes through The Old testament scriptures and shows them
[2:26:15] Speaker 2: all things concerning.
[2:26:16] Speaker 1: Himself.
[2:26:17] Speaker 2: Right so he's going through The Old testament opening up
[2:26:20] Speaker 2: things that no one would have been, like, hey that's
[2:26:22] Speaker 2: talking About jesus.
[2:26:24] Speaker 1: Because when they see.
[2:26:25] Speaker 2: It, WELL i mean you AND i would disagree on.
[2:26:29] Speaker 2: THAT i think there ARE i think there are texts
[2:26:30] Speaker 2: in the psalms that are that are, prophetic AND i
[2:26:33] Speaker 2: think there are some that are you, know the songs are, poetry,
[2:26:37] Speaker 2: right they're not meant to be taken.
[2:26:38] Speaker 1: LITERALLY i think you would agree with. That. TRUE i
[2:26:42] Speaker 1: think some of them are. Poetry some of them are.
[2:26:45] Speaker 1: Not but a lot of them do contain. Poetry but
[2:26:47] Speaker 1: like In psalm forty, one it's the character who's doing
[2:26:51] Speaker 1: the lament can't be The. Messiah it's got to Be King,
[2:26:55] Speaker 1: david because he's a. Sinner says as for, ME i,
[2:26:58] Speaker 1: Said Oh, lord be gracious to, me heal, me FOR
[2:27:00] Speaker 1: i have sinned against. You can't Be. Jesus what do
[2:27:11] Speaker 1: you what are you referring to? Here What i'm saying
[2:27:13] Speaker 1: Is psalm forty one is clearly a lamentation from a
[2:27:16] Speaker 1: sinful King. David, right just because there is one line that, says,
[2:27:22] Speaker 1: right my close RANDOM i trusted eight of my bread
[2:27:26] Speaker 1: lifted hill against. Me, listen just because it says one
[2:27:30] Speaker 1: thing in here that is reminiscent of something else in
[2:27:33] Speaker 1: The bible doesn't make it a.
[2:27:35] Speaker 2: Prophecy, No and you know, WHAT i think THAT i
[2:27:39] Speaker 2: can see what you're saying. There but What christ can
[2:27:43] Speaker 2: do is he could say this exact Line i'm applying, here.
[2:27:49] Speaker 1: Was THAT i could do the same. Thing THEN i
[2:27:51] Speaker 1: can just go into any random sentence of any random
[2:27:54] Speaker 1: text and say it's a prophecy about.
[2:27:56] Speaker 2: Me you, Could but but you're Not.
[2:27:59] Speaker 1: God Oh jesus Isn't god, Either so, yeah you're kind
[2:28:02] Speaker 1: of putting the cart the. Horse what you're saying, Is
[2:28:05] Speaker 1: i'm willing to accept bad Exit. Jesus i'm willing to
[2:28:08] Speaker 1: accept lies Because i'm starting with the presupposition That jesus Is.
[2:28:13] Speaker 1: God but that's the cart before the. Horse what you
[2:28:16] Speaker 1: should ask yourself, is can this guy Be god while
[2:28:19] Speaker 1: telling me lies while giving me bad? Exit jesus and
[2:28:23] Speaker 1: telling me that prophecies are prophecies when they're actually. Not,
[2:28:26] Speaker 1: okay so.
[2:28:26] Speaker 2: Bad Et jesus would imply though that it's the wrong,
[2:28:29] Speaker 2: interpretation AND i would say it would be, yeah, Yeah
[2:28:32] Speaker 2: so you're you're coming with a priest opposition That god isn't,
[2:28:35] Speaker 2: real there is No, god and Then, God so.
[2:28:39] Speaker 1: You have different priest. Oppositions, no my presupposition is that
[2:28:43] Speaker 1: whoever The messiah, is they have to fulfill actual prophecies
[2:28:47] Speaker 1: and not just any random words on any random. Page.
[2:28:50] Speaker 2: Right but you, say you say, that but then like
[2:28:54] Speaker 2: you don't actually believe that there's A. Messiah so your
[2:28:57] Speaker 2: priestoposition actually is that there is No, messiah that there
[2:29:00] Speaker 2: there is No.
[2:29:00] Speaker 1: God, no my presupposition is that The messianic prophecy has
[2:29:03] Speaker 1: never got. Fulfilled, no your presupposition actually goes beyond. That
[2:29:08] Speaker 1: it's there's No. God that's not a presupposition in this.
[2:29:12] Speaker 1: Debate this debate is not about whether or Not god.
[2:29:14] Speaker 1: Exists this debate literally is about whether or Not jesus
[2:29:17] Speaker 1: was The. MESSIAH i could have this identical debate IF
[2:29:19] Speaker 1: i was A. Jew, Okay, so AND i guess What
[2:29:24] Speaker 1: i'm saying is BECAUSE.
[2:29:26] Speaker 2: I believe in the death and resurrection Of christ and
[2:29:28] Speaker 2: that he Is. GOD i believe That christ can look
[2:29:31] Speaker 2: at this home and, say, hey this text exactly right
[2:29:34] Speaker 2: here it says that he who ate my bread has
[2:29:37] Speaker 2: lifted up his heel against. Me is Actually i'm applying
[2:29:40] Speaker 2: this To judas The.
[2:29:42] Speaker 1: Scariot, yeah which you would accept if you're already brainwashed
[2:29:47] Speaker 1: to think that this is a.
[2:29:48] Speaker 2: Prophecy AND i get what you're saying. THERE i kind
[2:29:53] Speaker 2: of want the other.
[2:29:53] Speaker 1: Dissent LIKE i probably have, here is you're willing to
[2:29:58] Speaker 1: accept bad readings of a, text And i'm, not, like so,
[2:30:02] Speaker 1: what what's more likely that a guy reads director from
[2:30:05] Speaker 1: the dead that can't actually read The messianic prophecies and
[2:30:09] Speaker 1: we just have to give him the. Credit or that
[2:30:12] Speaker 1: there's a guy who claimed to Meet, messiah didn't fulfill
[2:30:14] Speaker 1: a single prophecy and then didn't rise from the, dead
[2:30:18] Speaker 1: but there were some people who thought he did and
[2:30:19] Speaker 1: made up mythologies about.
[2:30:21] Speaker 2: Him, well he said a lot.
[2:30:25] Speaker 1: THERE i. DON'T i don't believe what you.
[2:30:28] Speaker 2: Said there is, true BECAUSE i do believe That christ
[2:30:31] Speaker 2: died and, rose AND i do believe that he fulfilled.
[2:30:33] Speaker 1: PROPHECY i don't think he fulfilled even. One can you
[2:30:36] Speaker 1: find me one that he?
[2:30:37] Speaker 2: Did, yeah let's Cut.
[2:30:40] Speaker 1: Isaiah, hold oh, boy you're gonna have a good time
[2:30:42] Speaker 1: with this. One have you Read Second isaiah? Before?
[2:30:51] Speaker 2: HOW i?
[2:30:52] Speaker 1: Read what Second? Isaiah when you say Second, isaiah what
[2:30:55] Speaker 1: do you? Mean chapter forty to fifty, five the second.
[2:30:59] Speaker 1: Half there's three. Parts there's First, Isaiah Second, Isaiah Third
[2:31:05] Speaker 1: isaiah also known As dudero And Trudeau. Isaiah you, KNOW
[2:31:11] Speaker 1: i know.
[2:31:12] Speaker 2: THAT i think it's what it was like in like
[2:31:14] Speaker 2: forty forty, one maybe eight sessions.
[2:31:16] Speaker 1: Off it's kind of got like a historically. Interlude, Yeah
[2:31:19] Speaker 1: so what happens in chapter forty to chapter fifty five
[2:31:23] Speaker 1: is the entire topic. Changes the first part of the
[2:31:27] Speaker 1: book is about The assyrian, captivity with the exception of
[2:31:33] Speaker 1: WHAT i would say is chapter. Fourteen most scholars think
[2:31:35] Speaker 1: chapter fourteen is. Misplaced the second half and the third
[2:31:39] Speaker 1: or the second portion and third portion are about The babylon,
[2:31:42] Speaker 1: captivity so about two hundred years, later which is why
[2:31:45] Speaker 1: most scholars attribute this to a completely different. Author it's
[2:31:49] Speaker 1: not important right. Now what's important right now is that
[2:31:52] Speaker 1: chapter forty and beyond are entirely different theme than the
[2:31:57] Speaker 1: first portion Of. Isaiah and the theme of this portion
[2:32:02] Speaker 1: is The babylon in. Captivity you went Into, Babylon you've
[2:32:06] Speaker 1: paid for your, Sins you've paid double for your. Sins
[2:32:10] Speaker 1: and Now i'm coming to free you from. Captivity and
[2:32:12] Speaker 1: WHEN i free you from, captivity it's going to be
[2:32:14] Speaker 1: so awesome that all the nations will. See you know,
[2:32:17] Speaker 1: this this glorious. Thing so let me read you a
[2:32:22] Speaker 1: couple of, passages And i'm going to make a case
[2:32:25] Speaker 1: That jesus is not the fulfillment Of isaiah. D, three
[2:32:29] Speaker 1: that it's indeed the righteous remnant Of. Israel you're gonna
[2:32:32] Speaker 1: complain because you don't see How israel could fulfill. It
[2:32:36] Speaker 1: and Then i'm going to explain to you Why isaiah
[2:32:38] Speaker 1: says It's. Isaiah and then and then we'll move on
[2:32:41] Speaker 1: to a different, prophecy because you'll agree to. Disagree so
[2:32:44] Speaker 1: In isaiah forty one eight through, nine he, says but You,
[2:32:48] Speaker 1: israel my, Servant, jacob Whom i've, chosen the offspring Of,
[2:32:50] Speaker 1: abraham my, friend, you WHO i took from the ends
[2:32:53] Speaker 1: of the earth and called you from his furthest, corner
[2:32:55] Speaker 1: saying to you you are my. Servant, okay so already
[2:32:58] Speaker 1: in the opening Of Second, isaiah we've got an identification
[2:33:02] Speaker 1: of the, servant and who is the identification of the Servant.
[2:33:08] Speaker 2: Israel? Nailed and THEN i would say that that is
[2:33:13] Speaker 2: not consistent throughout every single chapter In. Isaiah AND i
[2:33:17] Speaker 2: think that, this you, KNOW i mean curious what you
[2:33:20] Speaker 2: would say about All would you say all of the servant,
[2:33:22] Speaker 2: songs all of the songs In isaiah that are about the,
[2:33:28] Speaker 2: servant are all About. Israel would you say that's?
[2:33:32] Speaker 1: True, yeah the servant songs are About. Israel there's one
[2:33:36] Speaker 1: reference in chapter forty nine to the prophet, himself and
[2:33:39] Speaker 1: there's one other reference prior to that that's clearly About King.
[2:33:43] Speaker 1: Cyrus we can address those when we get. There let's
[2:33:46] Speaker 1: keep reading the Textile in chapter forty, Three verse ten
[2:33:51] Speaker 1: says you are my, witnesses says The lord and my,
[2:33:53] Speaker 1: servant Whom i've. Chosen so That's, israel, Right.
[2:34:00] Speaker 2: Well scholars would debate, that you, know WOULD i would
[2:34:03] Speaker 2: say that there's two. Views one is that It's israel
[2:34:05] Speaker 2: here and THE o there's This christ witnesses is, plural,
[2:34:10] Speaker 2: right but it says and my, Servant, yeah and my. Servants,
[2:34:13] Speaker 2: so so you are my witnesses and my. SERVANT i
[2:34:17] Speaker 2: have chosen so talking talking to two different groups, there you, know, honestly.
[2:34:23] Speaker 1: You, mean how about a multiplicity of. People The israelites
[2:34:29] Speaker 1: Were god's. Witnesses that's why they're, plural.
[2:34:36] Speaker 2: Right and then it, says and my, servant so are
[2:34:39] Speaker 2: you saying, that, well mine would be singular, here.
[2:34:43] Speaker 1: Right, no you are my, witnesses and you, say.
[2:34:48] Speaker 2: And my servants, say plural.
[2:34:50] Speaker 1: Servants. Right the servant is a personification Of. Israel israel
[2:34:55] Speaker 1: is a group of, people and the servant is a
[2:34:58] Speaker 1: singular entity of metaphor for What israel. Is just like
[2:35:03] Speaker 1: In exodus he says That israel is my firstborn. Son, well,
[2:35:06] Speaker 1: Obviously israel's not a. Child it's a personification of a
[2:35:10] Speaker 1: people group into a single.
[2:35:11] Speaker 2: Person i'm with, YOU i you, KNOW i think that
[2:35:17] Speaker 2: there are biblical you, Know bible believing scholars who would
[2:35:20] Speaker 2: say this is talking About israel. Here i'm just saying, That,
[2:35:23] Speaker 2: HEY i, DON'T i. DON'T i wouldn't accept the premise
[2:35:26] Speaker 2: that what you're saying is that because it's right here
[2:35:29] Speaker 2: talking About, israel WHICH i could agree, with that doesn't
[2:35:35] Speaker 2: mean That isaiah fifty three is talking About, israel AND
[2:35:38] Speaker 2: i think you have a hard time making that because we.
[2:35:40] Speaker 1: Have, today we have texts that's talking about a single.
[2:35:43] Speaker 1: PERSON i know we're covering that right. Now don't. Worry,
[2:35:48] Speaker 1: Okay so a single a single servant is in fact
[2:35:53] Speaker 1: more than one. People it's a. Nation we're doing this right.
[2:35:56] Speaker 1: Now you're my witnesses in the plural and my servant
[2:36:01] Speaker 1: in the. Singular, okay that's what's. Happening forty four says here,
[2:36:05] Speaker 1: now Oh, jacob my, servant And, israel Whom i've, Chosen
[2:36:08] Speaker 1: thus said The lord who made, you who formed you
[2:36:10] Speaker 1: in the, womb and will help. You do not, fear Oh,
[2:36:13] Speaker 1: jacob my. Servant it's nation Of. Israel right, then forty
[2:36:17] Speaker 1: four to twenty, one remember these, things Oh jacob And,
[2:36:20] Speaker 1: israel for you are my. Servant So jacob And israel
[2:36:24] Speaker 1: is the servant in the. Singular so a multiplicity of
[2:36:28] Speaker 1: people as a single. Servant forty five to four for
[2:36:31] Speaker 1: the sake of my, Servant jacob And israel my. Chosen easy,
[2:36:35] Speaker 1: Enough and this is my favorite. One now we're getting
[2:36:37] Speaker 1: close to the climax Of Second. Isaiah he, says go
[2:36:41] Speaker 1: out From, babylon flee From chowdia to clare this with
[2:36:43] Speaker 1: a shout of, joy proclaim, it send it forth to
[2:36:46] Speaker 1: the ends of the, earth says The lord has redeemed his, Servant.
[2:36:50] Speaker 1: Jacob So i'm reading the text in context Where god
[2:36:55] Speaker 1: is repeatedly, saying over and over, again my Servant, israel my, Servant,
[2:37:00] Speaker 1: JACOB i am about to redeem. You and it's gonna
[2:37:03] Speaker 1: your enemies are gonna ship. Bricks it's gonna be. Awesome
[2:37:06] Speaker 1: so WHEN i get to chapter fifty, two WHEN i
[2:37:08] Speaker 1: get to chapter fifty, three And god continues talking about
[2:37:12] Speaker 1: the thing he had been talking about for the last ten,
[2:37:14] Speaker 1: CHAPTERS i don't see WHY i would interpret this as
[2:37:18] Speaker 1: being about anybody But. Israel what would be a good
[2:37:21] Speaker 1: contextual reason to do.
[2:37:23] Speaker 2: That so WHEN i look At isaiah fifty, three whereas
[2:37:28] Speaker 2: says he was wounded for our, transgressions bruised for our. Iniquity, yeah,
[2:37:32] Speaker 2: chapterizing our piece was upon him and by his stripespere. Healed, Huh,
[2:37:37] Speaker 2: okay how can you say that's Why?
[2:37:39] Speaker 1: Israel right?
[2:37:40] Speaker 2: There all?
[2:37:40] Speaker 1: Right so did you hear my, Question?
[2:37:42] Speaker 2: Dave, No, YEAH i heard the, premise AND i LOOK
[2:37:47] Speaker 2: i can give you that, say, hey that's that's talking About.
[2:37:49] Speaker 2: Israel but that doesn't mean that all of the texts
[2:37:52] Speaker 2: saying servant here is talking About.
[2:37:55] Speaker 1: Israel but my question is is there a contextual reason
[2:38:00] Speaker 1: WHY i would not interpret this chapter is about the
[2:38:03] Speaker 1: nation Of israel When god has told me so many
[2:38:05] Speaker 1: times prior that it's the nation Of israel that's going
[2:38:09] Speaker 1: to suffer and then be.
[2:38:10] Speaker 2: Exalted, yes because the text In isaiah fifty three is
[2:38:16] Speaker 2: clearly talking about a.
[2:38:17] Speaker 1: Person why why would you say?
[2:38:19] Speaker 2: That because it says he was bruised for our, iniquities.
[2:38:23] Speaker 1: The servant Servant. Jesus, yeah, no Not. Jesus the servant Is.
[2:38:28] Speaker 1: Reel How?
[2:38:31] Speaker 2: Okay then just mentioned it like a times the text
[2:38:35] Speaker 2: the servant Is. Israel, Okay so apply this text To
[2:38:38] Speaker 2: israel and how does it make any?
[2:38:39] Speaker 1: Sense, okay we'll start from the. Beginning we're going to
[2:38:41] Speaker 1: start in fifty two and we're going to walk through
[2:38:43] Speaker 1: the context And i'll explain why it's about the nation Of. Israel,
[2:38:48] Speaker 1: also because there's not a single passage in the Entire
[2:38:52] Speaker 1: Old testament that talks about a Suffering, messiah and there
[2:38:55] Speaker 1: are dozens that talk about a Suffering. Israel so in
[2:38:58] Speaker 1: fifty two we're getting the Context god is now ready
[2:39:02] Speaker 1: to redeem his. People he, says, Depart actually start into verse.
[2:39:06] Speaker 1: Ten in, fact we even start in verse. Nine he,
[2:39:11] Speaker 1: says break, forth shout together for joy your ruins Of,
[2:39:13] Speaker 1: jerusalem for The lord has comforted his. People he has Redeemed. Jerusalem,
[2:39:17] Speaker 1: okay so the setting right now Is god is talking
[2:39:20] Speaker 1: to The israelites in captivity and to those back In.
[2:39:23] Speaker 1: Jerusalem he, Said, hey it's time for. Joy god has
[2:39:26] Speaker 1: finally redeemed his. People he, says The lord has bared
[2:39:30] Speaker 1: His Holy arm before the eyes of all the, nations
[2:39:32] Speaker 1: and all the ends of the earth shall see the
[2:39:35] Speaker 1: salvation of Our god now prior in The book Of,
[2:39:39] Speaker 1: isaiah Second isaiah explicitly he tells you over and over
[2:39:43] Speaker 1: again what it means when The lord bears His Holy.
[2:39:45] Speaker 1: Arm he, Says he's going to Free israel from the
[2:39:47] Speaker 1: captivity using his mighty outshushed, arm just like he says
[2:39:50] Speaker 1: with The. Exodus right when he bears His holy. Arm
[2:39:52] Speaker 1: this is a reference to freeing his people from, captivity
[2:39:55] Speaker 1: which is why the very next verse, says, depart, depart
[2:39:57] Speaker 1: go out from, there toush no unclean. Thing go out
[2:40:00] Speaker 1: from the midst of, it and purify, yourselves you who
[2:40:02] Speaker 1: carry the vessels of The, lord where you shall not
[2:40:04] Speaker 1: go out in, haste and you shall not go out
[2:40:06] Speaker 1: in flight for The lord Your. God i'm. Sorry The
[2:40:08] Speaker 1: lord will go before, you and The god Of israel
[2:40:11] Speaker 1: will be your. Regard so he's he's kind of echoing The.
[2:40:14] Speaker 1: Exodus remember In exus they had to go out in.
[2:40:16] Speaker 1: Haste that's why they made the unloved bread and so
[2:40:18] Speaker 1: on and so. Forth so he's, saying this, time you
[2:40:20] Speaker 1: don't even have to go out in. Haste God's god's
[2:40:22] Speaker 1: going before, you and he'll be your. Rearguard he'll take
[2:40:25] Speaker 1: care of. You. Right, so, now Like i'm reading this in, context,
[2:40:28] Speaker 1: right this, whole the entire Second isaiah has been building
[2:40:32] Speaker 1: up to this. Moment god's Saying i'm going to free
[2:40:34] Speaker 1: you and inching closer and closer to that, goal right
[2:40:38] Speaker 1: and then so and then the very next line After
[2:40:41] Speaker 1: god Says i'm going to free, you he, says, see
[2:40:44] Speaker 1: my servant shall, prosper he shall be exalted and lifted,
[2:40:46] Speaker 1: up he shall be very. High so now we're back
[2:40:48] Speaker 1: to talk About israel being exalted, again just as there
[2:40:51] Speaker 1: were many who were astonished at. Him so marred was
[2:40:54] Speaker 1: his appearance beyond human, semblance his form beyond that. Immortals
[2:40:58] Speaker 1: so he shall startle many. Nations and this is the important.
[2:41:01] Speaker 1: Part kings shall shut their mouths because of. Him for
[2:41:05] Speaker 1: that which they had Not i'm. Sorry for that which
[2:41:07] Speaker 1: had not been told of, them they shall, See and
[2:41:09] Speaker 1: that which they had not, heard they shall. Contemplate and
[2:41:12] Speaker 1: this makes sense Because god Says he's going to Use
[2:41:16] Speaker 1: israel as they light to the, nations a covenant to the,
[2:41:19] Speaker 1: people and that the, kings the, foreigners the kings are
[2:41:23] Speaker 1: going to see the vindication Of israel and come running to.
[2:41:26] Speaker 1: Them and that's why the ending of verse fifteen is very,
[2:41:31] Speaker 1: important because he, says for that which had not been
[2:41:33] Speaker 1: told to, them they shall. See them are the nations
[2:41:38] Speaker 1: that were holding them captive because they don't have the
[2:41:41] Speaker 1: word Of, Yahweh they don't have the prophets, right they
[2:41:44] Speaker 1: didn't receive any words From yahweh about. This and said
[2:41:47] Speaker 1: that which they had not, heard they shall. Contemplate So he's, saying,
[2:41:51] Speaker 1: listen these, people these, nations they that are Holding israel,
[2:41:54] Speaker 1: captive they. Don't they didn't know what was about to.
[2:41:57] Speaker 1: Happen they have no idea what's about to. Happen the
[2:42:00] Speaker 1: very next line is a personification of the nations contemplating,
[2:42:05] Speaker 1: right says that which they had not, heard they shall.
[2:42:07] Speaker 1: Contemplate the very next, line who has believed what we have?
[2:42:11] Speaker 1: Heard and to whom has the arm of The lord been?
[2:42:13] Speaker 1: Revealed for he grew up before him like a young,
[2:42:16] Speaker 1: plant like a root out of dry. Ground So i'm reading,
[2:42:19] Speaker 1: This i'm, saying, oh this is the personification of the, nation, saying,
[2:42:22] Speaker 1: oh now That i've seen What yahweh has, done holy,
[2:42:25] Speaker 1: shit who would believe? This this is? Crazy and then
[2:42:29] Speaker 1: it says that they're like a root out of dry,
[2:42:31] Speaker 1: ground referring to you, Know israel's, situation, Right And isaiah
[2:42:36] Speaker 1: says later in chapter, SIXTY i believe he says That
[2:42:41] Speaker 1: god says To isaiah That israel is the root THAT i. Planted,
[2:42:46] Speaker 1: Right So i'm reading this, Something, Yes israel is the
[2:42:49] Speaker 1: root out of drag. Ground isaiah tells, you or whoever
[2:42:52] Speaker 1: Wrote isaiah tells you That israel is the. Root so
[2:42:54] Speaker 1: Now i'm already in fifty three And i'm reading this
[2:42:57] Speaker 1: AND i still at this, POINT i can't find a
[2:43:00] Speaker 1: single reason to not read this About israel.
[2:43:02] Speaker 15: Yet, okay so you, KNOW i think obviously there's an
[2:43:08] Speaker 15: exegetical reason you come to that conclusion, that AND i
[2:43:11] Speaker 15: see what you're, Doing you're leading up to, it AND
[2:43:13] Speaker 15: i get.
[2:43:14] Speaker 2: That now if you look at fifty, three could you
[2:43:19] Speaker 2: see how there could be a Suffering messianic prophecy in?
[2:43:23] Speaker 2: Here or you just, like, no there's no possible.
[2:43:26] Speaker 1: Way it's just. Impossible there's No messiah mentioned anywhere. Here
[2:43:30] Speaker 1: the Only messiah ever mentioned In isaiah Is King. Cyrus
[2:43:35] Speaker 1: if this was A messianic, prophecy you've got two. Problems
[2:43:38] Speaker 1: well that's.
[2:43:39] Speaker 2: INTERESTING i don't.
[2:43:39] Speaker 1: Know i'm.
[2:43:40] Speaker 2: WAIT i kind of want TO i want to probe
[2:43:42] Speaker 2: a little bit, there like why you come to that?
[2:43:44] Speaker 2: Conclusion so you, Don't so let's let's maybe let's look
[2:43:48] Speaker 2: At isaiah nine.
[2:43:50] Speaker 1: Six.
[2:43:50] Speaker 2: Right it's a very, famous well known. Passage, Right so
[2:43:53] Speaker 2: what would you what would you say About isaiah nine.
[2:43:57] Speaker 1: Six the Only messiah In Second? Isaiah IF i didn't say,
[2:43:59] Speaker 1: SECOND i meant to say, second the Only messiah mentioned
[2:44:02] Speaker 1: In Second isaiah Is King.
[2:44:03] Speaker 2: Cyrus, Okay so you, KNOW i WOULD i would proposition
[2:44:09] Speaker 2: that In isaiah nine, six that we're looking at the
[2:44:12] Speaker 2: same figure here AS i Think.
[2:44:16] Speaker 1: Isaiah, well first of, ALL i don't think they're the same,
[2:44:18] Speaker 1: author but even if they, WERE i Think isaiah nine
[2:44:21] Speaker 1: is About hezekiah because it's an actual. King.
[2:44:26] Speaker 2: Yeah so that's interesting because you wouldn't attribute those things
[2:44:30] Speaker 2: that would be. Blasphemous, actually, Right, no.
[2:44:34] Speaker 1: The wordiah means anointed. One the king was anointed Blast.
[2:44:41] Speaker 1: Okay so the, beginning, right the beginning of chapter nine
[2:44:45] Speaker 1: starts out with the prophecy just post the invasion by The.
[2:44:51] Speaker 1: Assyrians in, fact this is uh when this was. Written
[2:44:54] Speaker 1: this was written in a time period in which The
[2:44:56] Speaker 1: assyrian powers already came, in already defeated the northern tribes Of,
[2:44:59] Speaker 1: israel and they got pushed, back and then their kingdom
[2:45:02] Speaker 1: went off and to go fight other, battles And israel
[2:45:05] Speaker 1: had a little bit of rest for a little. While
[2:45:07] Speaker 1: so this prophecy comes at a period before The babylonian,
[2:45:11] Speaker 1: invasion after The assyrian the Initial assyrian, invasion when there's
[2:45:14] Speaker 1: a little bit of breathing, room and it, says but
[2:45:17] Speaker 1: there will be no gloom for those who are in.
[2:45:19] Speaker 1: Anguish in the former time he brought into contempt the
[2:45:21] Speaker 1: land Of zebulin and the land Of. Naptali these are
[2:45:24] Speaker 1: the two the two groups Of israelites that are northernmost
[2:45:29] Speaker 1: except for the tribe Of. Dan these two are right
[2:45:32] Speaker 1: up at the north where the invasion of The assyrians came. In,
[2:45:35] Speaker 1: theoretically the tribe Of dan was already in an alliance
[2:45:38] Speaker 1: with The, assyrians depending on how you read. It so he's, saying,
[2:45:42] Speaker 1: listen these northern, tribes he got their asses. Kicked it's,
[2:45:44] Speaker 1: okay things are, changing but he says in the latter
[2:45:48] Speaker 1: time they would be made. Glorious the way of the
[2:45:51] Speaker 1: sea and the land beyond The, Jordan galilee of the.
[2:45:54] Speaker 1: Nations the people who walked in darkness have seen a great.
[2:45:56] Speaker 1: Light those who lived in a land of deep, darkness
[2:45:58] Speaker 1: on them a light has. Shined so this is just
[2:46:02] Speaker 1: so we're aware this is past, tense that this part
[2:46:07] Speaker 1: of the text is past. Tense he's talking about what
[2:46:10] Speaker 1: has happened with the drawback of These syrian, troops and
[2:46:14] Speaker 1: then he talks about how they're gonna be victorious in.
[2:46:17] Speaker 1: War says for the boots of the trampling warriors and
[2:46:20] Speaker 1: all the garments rolled in blood shall be burned as
[2:46:22] Speaker 1: fuel for the. Fire or why is this the? Case
[2:46:25] Speaker 1: why is this the? Case he, says because a child
[2:46:29] Speaker 1: has been born for, us a son given to. Us
[2:46:33] Speaker 1: both of these words born and. Given so this is
[2:46:37] Speaker 1: ulade in The hebrew is past. Tense the child has been.
[2:46:42] Speaker 1: Born that's why it says has been. Born this is
[2:46:44] Speaker 1: not a. Prophecy this part is not a prophecy for the.
[2:46:47] Speaker 1: Future this is a prophecy about a child who's literally
[2:46:50] Speaker 1: already been. Born and then he, says authority rests upon his,
[2:46:54] Speaker 1: shoulders and he is named wonderful Counselor Mighty, god Everlasting,
[2:46:58] Speaker 1: Father prince of. Peace if you know anything about enthronement,
[2:47:01] Speaker 1: prophecies these are not names that are describing the. King
[2:47:06] Speaker 1: these are theophoric names describing the god of the. King
[2:47:09] Speaker 1: we see the same thing in the other Ancient neurastern.
[2:47:12] Speaker 1: Literature we see the same thing in The egyptian enthronement. Prophecies,
[2:47:16] Speaker 1: Yeah i'd reject. That, okay, yeah you can reject a.
[2:47:19] Speaker 1: Scholarship this. Time he doesn't.
[2:47:20] Speaker 2: Say, that, though Right it says his name will be Called.
[2:47:23] Speaker 1: Yes, exactly because the Name hezekiah Means Mighty yahweh Or Mighty.
[2:47:28] Speaker 1: God that's literally the name Of. Hezekiah but when a
[2:47:32] Speaker 1: king became, enthroned he took on theophoric. Names, obviously there's
[2:47:38] Speaker 1: not four different names for the. King this is a
[2:47:40] Speaker 1: standard practice to give four to five theophoric names to
[2:47:44] Speaker 1: whatever king was taking the, throne which is clear in verse.
[2:47:48] Speaker 1: Seven great will be his. Authority there shall be endless
[2:47:51] Speaker 1: peace for the throne Of King david and for his.
[2:47:54] Speaker 1: Kingdom but there was. Not first of, All jesus was
[2:47:57] Speaker 1: never a. King he never sat On King david's. Throne
[2:48:00] Speaker 1: he never brought peace to the kingdom Of King. David
[2:48:02] Speaker 1: it says he will establish it and uphold it with
[2:48:05] Speaker 1: justice and. Righteousness he didn't do. That he was never
[2:48:07] Speaker 1: a king.
[2:48:09] Speaker 2: Who was not a.
[2:48:10] Speaker 1: King jesus was never a.
[2:48:11] Speaker 2: King jesus is the only. King he's the king of kings.
[2:48:14] Speaker 1: There or, literally not give me One bible passage where
[2:48:17] Speaker 1: he was ever on a throne Of King. David what's?
[2:48:20] Speaker 1: That throw me One bible passage where he ever sat
[2:48:22] Speaker 1: on the throne Of King. David In. Israel he's at
[2:48:25] Speaker 1: the right hand of The father right.
[2:48:26] Speaker 2: Now he's In. Heabit he ranged from.
[2:48:27] Speaker 1: Heaven the throne Of King david is An.
[2:48:29] Speaker 2: Israel, okay but would you there's there's metaphorical language and
[2:48:35] Speaker 2: then there's literal. Language so was Did jesus calm as
[2:48:38] Speaker 2: a humble? Servant yes he. Did but is he also
[2:48:42] Speaker 2: described In revelation as the king of kings and the
[2:48:45] Speaker 2: lord of?
[2:48:45] Speaker 1: Lords yes he. Is there's adorable if he comes back
[2:48:49] Speaker 1: In revelation and says on the, throne but he's. Not
[2:48:51] Speaker 1: he's never been on it. Yet until he sits on the,
[2:48:53] Speaker 1: throne he's not a, king.
[2:48:54] Speaker 2: Right but he ascended to the right hand Of.
[2:48:56] Speaker 1: God you believe. THAT i. Don't so this is this
[2:49:00] Speaker 1: is the problem you. Have jesus has to fulfill this
[2:49:03] Speaker 1: prophecy by being a. King he must be sitting on
[2:49:06] Speaker 1: the throne Of King. David that's what it means to
[2:49:08] Speaker 1: be a.
[2:49:09] Speaker 2: King AND i would say that he is the only
[2:49:12] Speaker 2: one who actually ever fulfilled this.
[2:49:14] Speaker 1: Prophecy but he didn't if he didn't sit on the.
[2:49:17] Speaker 2: Throne, YEAH i get what you're, saying like because you
[2:49:22] Speaker 2: are taking it to be a literal. Throne but When jesus,
[2:49:26] Speaker 2: comes he, says The kingdom Of god is at. Hand
[2:49:28] Speaker 2: king he's talking about a heavenly. Kingdom it's not an earthly.
[2:49:30] Speaker 1: Kingdom but it doesn't matter what he doesn't matter what he.
[2:49:33] Speaker 1: Says if he says that it's not the throne Of King,
[2:49:36] Speaker 1: david then he's a. Liar he's a liar and a.
[2:49:38] Speaker 1: Fraud like we've been pointing, out because every time The
[2:49:40] Speaker 1: Old testament talks about the Actual, messiah which The New
[2:49:43] Speaker 1: testament for some reason, ignores it's an actual king living
[2:49:48] Speaker 1: in Actual, israel sitting on an actual throne Of King.
[2:49:51] Speaker 1: David go to When jesus's food men say THAT i.
[2:49:55] Speaker 1: Am it doesn't matter what he. Said i'm telling you
[2:49:57] Speaker 1: What god. SAID i just want to make, Sure, david
[2:50:00] Speaker 1: you understand Where i'm coming. From, Right i'm looking at
[2:50:03] Speaker 1: The bible And i'm, saying The god of The Old
[2:50:06] Speaker 1: testament said, this, Right And i'm, Saying, okay if The
[2:50:10] Speaker 1: New testament is, true it has to align with The
[2:50:12] Speaker 1: god of The Old testament. Says you're going. Backward you're,
[2:50:16] Speaker 1: Saying i'm starting with The New. Testament i'll twist every
[2:50:18] Speaker 1: word in The Old testament to mean whatever it needs to,
[2:50:20] Speaker 1: mean just SO i don't have to give up My New.
[2:50:23] Speaker 1: Testament but that's putting the cart before the, horse because,
[2:50:26] Speaker 1: well if we have Clear messianic passages in The Old,
[2:50:29] Speaker 1: testament would you like to read one with? Me? Okay
[2:50:32] Speaker 1: CAN i respond to that? Though?
[2:50:33] Speaker 2: First, Okay so you're reading the text linearly in terms of, history.
[2:50:38] Speaker 2: Okay AND i would say that If jesus said something
[2:50:41] Speaker 2: in The New, testament AND.
[2:50:43] Speaker 1: I believe That jesus is who he says.
[2:50:46] Speaker 2: He, is THAT i also have to look At Old
[2:50:49] Speaker 2: testament scripture with exogetical lens that, says, Hey jesus said,
[2:50:54] Speaker 2: THIS i need to look at this other scripture and
[2:50:56] Speaker 2: can see if it comports with one. Another and that's
[2:51:00] Speaker 2: to get what you're saying is, like, hey this happened
[2:51:02] Speaker 2: first and this happened.
[2:51:03] Speaker 1: Later but what you're.
[2:51:05] Speaker 2: Saying is If jesus so when he Has, peter he,
[2:51:09] Speaker 2: says who do men say THAT i? Am And peter, says,
[2:51:12] Speaker 2: RIGHT i am The they say that you were The,
[2:51:15] Speaker 2: christ the son of The Living.
[2:51:16] Speaker 1: God, Right so Did jesus claim to be The? Christ
[2:51:21] Speaker 1: do you believe? THAT i Think jesus did claim to
[2:51:24] Speaker 1: be The. Christ but none of that's actually, Relevant And
[2:51:27] Speaker 1: i'll tell YOU i don't accept the claims that we
[2:51:32] Speaker 1: have to interpret The Old testament through the lens of
[2:51:34] Speaker 1: The New testament for the same reason that you wouldn't
[2:51:37] Speaker 1: accept the claim that we need to interpret The New
[2:51:39] Speaker 1: testament through the lens of The book Of. Mormon, Right,
[2:51:42] Speaker 1: so The book Of mormon's doing the same thing you're.
[2:51:44] Speaker 1: Doing they're starting At Joseph smith and then they're Reading
[2:51:47] Speaker 1: Joseph smith back into the. Text you're starting At jesus
[2:51:50] Speaker 1: and then you're Reading jesus back in the. Text so
[2:51:53] Speaker 1: if you don't let The mormons do, it then you
[2:51:55] Speaker 1: can't do it For christianity. Either you have to start
[2:51:57] Speaker 1: with The Old testament and read that and then ask,
[2:51:59] Speaker 1: yourself did this actually? Happen so that's what we're doing right,
[2:52:03] Speaker 1: now we're trying to read the.
[2:52:04] Speaker 2: Text, okay that's, fair that's. FAIR i understand. That but
[2:52:09] Speaker 2: don't compare. This don't compare for Historical christianity.
[2:52:12] Speaker 1: To mormonism because it's literally. Identical oh, really, yeah. Yeah
[2:52:17] Speaker 1: christianity is a failed apocalyptic cult based On judaism And
[2:52:21] Speaker 1: mormonism is another cult based On. Christianity so it's completely.
[2:52:26] Speaker 1: Analogous in, fact The jews joke that you, Know god
[2:52:30] Speaker 1: gave The Christians, mormons so they knew what it was
[2:52:32] Speaker 1: like for The jews to Get. Christians so let's read
[2:52:35] Speaker 1: an Actual messianic prophecy From. Ezekiel because My Servant david
[2:52:39] Speaker 1: shall be king over. Them this Is teb thirty. Seven
[2:52:42] Speaker 1: My Servant david shall be king over. Them they shall
[2:52:45] Speaker 1: have one. Shepherd they shall follow my ordinances and be
[2:52:48] Speaker 1: careful to observe my. Statutes they shall live in the
[2:52:51] Speaker 1: land THAT i gave to my Servant, jacob in which
[2:52:53] Speaker 1: your ancestors. Lived they and their children and their children's
[2:52:56] Speaker 1: children will live there, forever and My Servant david will
[2:52:59] Speaker 1: be their print. Forever so The messiah is supposed to
[2:53:03] Speaker 1: be on the throne In, israel.
[2:53:08] Speaker 2: And so let's let's. OKAY I i hear what you're.
[2:53:13] Speaker 2: SAYING i hear what you're. Saying he has to be
[2:53:16] Speaker 2: on the throne Of. Israel, now what Do christians believe
[2:53:19] Speaker 2: about Who christ? Is it is That jesus did fulfill
[2:53:23] Speaker 2: that because he's at the right hand Of god and
[2:53:26] Speaker 2: he is going to come, back and he is going
[2:53:28] Speaker 2: to create a new heavens and a New earth and
[2:53:30] Speaker 2: sit on the throne in New, jerusalem but.
[2:53:32] Speaker 1: He didn't do. It that's the. Difference see you're, saying,
[2:53:35] Speaker 1: well he's going to do it, Later but if he's
[2:53:37] Speaker 1: going to do it, later that means he didn't do.
[2:53:39] Speaker 1: It and if he didn't do, it that means it's not.
[2:53:41] Speaker 1: Fulfilled so until he comes back and defeats all Of
[2:53:45] Speaker 1: israel's enemies insists on that, throne he is not The.
[2:53:48] Speaker 1: Messiah see. IT i don't agree with that because you,
[2:53:54] Speaker 1: again you can't show me a single thing he actually.
[2:53:56] Speaker 1: Fulfilled the best you have is he rose from The
[2:54:00] Speaker 1: i'm dead, theoretically and THEREFORE i just believe whatever he.
[2:54:03] Speaker 1: Says you can't show me in the Actual Hebrew bible
[2:54:06] Speaker 1: where he fulfilled. Anything, Okay so.
[2:54:11] Speaker 2: What you're saying about the resurrection being that, IMPORTANT i agree, with.
[2:54:15] Speaker 2: RIGHT i, mean IF i didn't believe in the, RESURRECTION
[2:54:17] Speaker 2: i wouldn't be A.
[2:54:17] Speaker 1: Christian but why do you believe In jesus's, resurrection but
[2:54:20] Speaker 1: you don't believe in the resurrection Of alcistis Or zelmaxus
[2:54:25] Speaker 1: Or aristeus Like jesus's resurrection or like the resurrection Of,
[2:54:29] Speaker 1: nero like there's literally hundreds of resurrections from this time,
[2:54:32] Speaker 1: period like you just picked this one to believe. In,
[2:54:37] Speaker 1: WELL i, mean do you want the.
[2:54:39] Speaker 2: Likes there's an academic, answer WHICH i came to.
[2:54:42] Speaker 1: Later BUT i was an atheist for most of my.
[2:54:44] Speaker 2: Life I'm i'm thirty three, now AND i met The
[2:54:47] Speaker 2: lord a few years, ago AND i started reading the,
[2:54:49] Speaker 2: text AND i really believe That jesus was who he
[2:54:52] Speaker 2: says he, was and then he died for my sins
[2:54:54] Speaker 2: and then heroes from the dead according to the. Scripture,
[2:54:57] Speaker 2: NOW i didn't get to the end of The. GOSPELS
[2:55:00] Speaker 2: i believe THAT i really just started reading all the,
[2:55:04] Speaker 2: scriptures AND i believe that they are logically. CONSISTENT i
[2:55:08] Speaker 2: know that You you don't because you have a lens
[2:55:11] Speaker 2: is That jesus is a.
[2:55:12] Speaker 1: Liar, WELL i know he's a liar because he says
[2:55:15] Speaker 1: that he fulfilled things that he never. Fulfilled he says
[2:55:18] Speaker 1: that He's, messiah but he didn't fulfill a single, prophecy
[2:55:20] Speaker 1: like he explicitly lies On King david when he Quotes
[2:55:26] Speaker 1: psalm one In matthew twenty. Two he explicitly misquotes and
[2:55:31] Speaker 1: Misrepresents isaiah sixty one In luke chapter.
[2:55:34] Speaker 2: Four See jesus can't take a piece of songs and
[2:55:39] Speaker 2: apply it to a. Situation because, no he can Apply
[2:55:44] Speaker 2: he can take a verse like, that when we looked
[2:55:46] Speaker 2: at in the it was its own forty, four we're
[2:55:50] Speaker 2: looking at forty One psalm forty. One he could take
[2:55:54] Speaker 2: verse nine out of there and he can say this
[2:55:57] Speaker 2: is applying to this. Situation No jesus for the.
[2:55:59] Speaker 1: Trayer, no, yeah well, NO i mean because so my
[2:56:05] Speaker 1: conclusion is easy that a prophecy is a. PROPHECY i
[2:56:08] Speaker 1: don't care if you think a dude rose from the.
[2:56:09] Speaker 1: Dead you can't tell me that something's not a, prophecy
[2:56:12] Speaker 1: is a Prophecy when we've got literally a third of
[2:56:15] Speaker 1: The bible is. Prophetic just just look at the amount of.
[2:56:18] Speaker 1: Prophetic i'll show it to. You hold, On i'm just
[2:56:21] Speaker 1: gonna sandwich real, quick the amount of. Prophecy and my
[2:56:26] Speaker 1: book even includes the apocrypha of THOSE i even got
[2:56:29] Speaker 1: extra books in. Here, okay so here's the. Beginning one,
[2:56:33] Speaker 1: second almost. There, Okay i've got this much material in My.
[2:56:43] Speaker 1: BIBLE a bunch of this is, apocrypha that's literally just.
[2:56:46] Speaker 1: Prophecy all of this is just. Prophecy All jesus had
[2:56:50] Speaker 1: to do was go to these books of prophecies and, say,
[2:56:54] Speaker 1: hey these prophecies said that something is going to, happen
[2:56:56] Speaker 1: AND i did it not? Once does that?
[2:56:58] Speaker 2: Happen? Right and you, KNOW i think that your conclusion
[2:57:03] Speaker 2: is that it. Didn't but WHEN i read a text
[2:57:06] Speaker 2: Like isaiah fifty, three AND i see that he was
[2:57:09] Speaker 2: bruised and shastives what for our? Sins and the wrath
[2:57:14] Speaker 2: of all Nighty god was laid on.
[2:57:16] Speaker 1: Him but it. Wasn't that's, Able but it wasn't the. Case,
[2:57:20] Speaker 1: no because the passage is really originally referring to the
[2:57:23] Speaker 1: nation Of. Israel, listen a guy that gets suffered and
[2:57:26] Speaker 1: killed by The romans could be. Anybody Simon barkokva fits
[2:57:29] Speaker 1: that better Than. Jesus Simon barkokva was an actual. Leader
[2:57:32] Speaker 1: he was an actual prince In. Israel we've got a
[2:57:34] Speaker 1: period of about three and a half years where they
[2:57:36] Speaker 1: minted coins with his name and face on, them calling
[2:57:40] Speaker 1: him The prince Of israel before The romans killed. Them,
[2:57:45] Speaker 1: well why Wouldn't why would you say he's a? Fulfillment?
[2:57:47] Speaker 2: Then, well, WELL i mean there's there's multiple. Reasons one
[2:57:52] Speaker 2: is the. Apostles one is, WELL i mean would a.
[2:57:57] Speaker 2: Man would would you die for a?
[2:57:59] Speaker 1: Lie you die if you're?
[2:58:01] Speaker 2: Deceived, yes, okay so tell me about how you could
[2:58:05] Speaker 2: deceive hundreds of people to die for a False Christ that.
[2:58:11] Speaker 1: Was not even. Hard in, fact if you read the
[2:58:14] Speaker 1: ancient text like A, Tacitus sinsutonius and, others there were
[2:58:18] Speaker 1: so Many nero impostors pretending to be the Resurrected nero
[2:58:21] Speaker 1: that people were literally Starting nero. Cults and then there
[2:58:25] Speaker 1: was one impostor that was so successful he convinced The
[2:58:28] Speaker 1: parthian army to go to war Against. Rome like twenty
[2:58:32] Speaker 1: Thousand parthians picked up arms and marched Into rome with
[2:58:36] Speaker 1: the Resurrected, nero thinking of the Resurrected nero leading them into,
[2:58:40] Speaker 1: battle only to get their asses handed to. Them i'm
[2:58:43] Speaker 1: talking about something, else not. That i'm saying that if.
[2:58:46] Speaker 2: You walked literally with a man and you knew that
[2:58:50] Speaker 2: he Wasn't, jesus would you die for?
[2:58:53] Speaker 1: That they. Didn't that's What i'm trying to tell. You
[2:58:57] Speaker 1: they didn't even recognize. That if you just read the
[2:58:59] Speaker 1: new test like when he appears to, people they don't
[2:59:02] Speaker 1: even recognize his. Ass mary thinks he's a. Gardener and
[2:59:06] Speaker 1: then when he shows up to, others they don't recognize
[2:59:08] Speaker 1: them at first. Either these are hallmark signs of an.
[2:59:11] Speaker 1: Impostor and then if you just read like the ol
[2:59:14] Speaker 1: Of it discourse in The book Of. Mark during the
[2:59:16] Speaker 1: Olive it, discourse he tells you that people are going
[2:59:19] Speaker 1: to come and impersonate. Them it's almost like the book
[2:59:21] Speaker 1: was written after the, fact knowing That jesus impersonators are running.
[2:59:24] Speaker 10: Around, YEAH i, MEAN i, like DO i believe in
[2:59:30] Speaker 10: Historical christian evidence that the apostles were persecuted and murders
[2:59:35] Speaker 10: who were eyewitnesses Of?
[2:59:36] Speaker 2: Christ, like, YEAH i.
[2:59:37] Speaker 1: Did why why would you believe that it's not even.
[2:59:40] Speaker 1: Recorded you've got the death of two of them theoretically
[2:59:45] Speaker 1: in The. Bible you've got one of them told By,
[2:59:48] Speaker 1: josephus and the rest of them come hundreds of years,
[2:59:51] Speaker 1: later like the the stories that tell the death of
[2:59:55] Speaker 1: the other, Disciples like you've probably heard of the famous
[2:59:58] Speaker 1: Pastor peters be fifteen hundred years. Later so the like
[3:00:05] Speaker 1: the death Of peter being upside down on a, cross
[3:00:07] Speaker 1: like such a famous. Story everyone knows it. Right in
[3:00:10] Speaker 1: the same book that records that, story it says that
[3:00:13] Speaker 1: a dog was empowered by The Holy spirit to give a.
[3:00:16] Speaker 1: Speech it says that a baby nursing at his mother's
[3:00:19] Speaker 1: breast took up words and gave a, speech and that
[3:00:23] Speaker 1: That Simon magus and And peter got into a wizard's. Duel,
[3:00:31] Speaker 1: YEAH i Mean Simon magus was. FLYING i DON'T i don't.
[3:00:36] Speaker 2: Tell you know, This Like christians don't take that to be,
[3:00:38] Speaker 2: Canon like that's not.
[3:00:39] Speaker 1: Canon but That's these are the texts that we used
[3:00:43] Speaker 1: to talk about the deaths of the. Disciples, like the
[3:00:45] Speaker 1: same text that talks about flying men and talking dogs
[3:00:49] Speaker 1: are the same ones that record how the disciples.
[3:00:51] Speaker 2: Die you, know you're, like you could point to those,
[3:00:55] Speaker 2: texts but they're not the only text. RIGHT i would
[3:00:57] Speaker 2: say That luke was a first class historian and he
[3:01:00] Speaker 2: recorded the death Of, james and, yeah the death Of, paul, right, yeah.
[3:01:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, Well paul's death is not. Recorded it's presumed that
[3:01:11] Speaker 1: he died in. PRISON i don't know if anyone really.
[3:01:14] Speaker 1: KNOWS i personally believe he died in, prison but you,
[3:01:18] Speaker 1: know there's certainly there's some debate to be had. There So,
[3:01:22] Speaker 1: james the son Of, zeviedy is the one that gets
[3:01:25] Speaker 1: killed in The book Of, Acts, james the son Of,
[3:01:31] Speaker 1: joseph perhaps the brother Of, jesus is the one theoretically
[3:01:35] Speaker 1: that gets. Killed in antiquities of The. Jews we don't
[3:01:39] Speaker 1: hear about any other deaths other Than. Stephen But stephen
[3:01:43] Speaker 1: technically wasn't one of the court. Disciples So stephen in
[3:01:45] Speaker 1: actually seven gets, executed, Right but we have no, idea you,
[3:01:50] Speaker 1: know whether or not he was like a court. Disciple
[3:01:53] Speaker 1: but that being, said none of that's. Relevant but like
[3:01:58] Speaker 1: the reality, is lots of people in the ancient world
[3:02:01] Speaker 1: were willing to give their lives for like these mystery
[3:02:04] Speaker 1: cults and these so called resurrection.
[3:02:06] Speaker 2: Occults, OKAY i mean, that like that could be, true
[3:02:14] Speaker 2: But i'm more taking The i'm not talking about those.
[3:02:18] Speaker 2: INSTANCES i don't know about what you're talking about, There
[3:02:21] Speaker 2: like that might be, true people do crazy. Stuff i'm
[3:02:25] Speaker 2: talking about people that were eyewitnesses Of christ dying.
[3:02:29] Speaker 1: For THIS i, know, yeah, yeah eyewitnesses of the Resurrected
[3:02:34] Speaker 1: nero went to war on his.
[3:02:36] Speaker 2: Behalf and what is your manuscript evidence for? That?
[3:02:42] Speaker 1: YEAH i can show. You it's written in a number
[3:02:45] Speaker 1: of different. MANUSCRIPTS i want to grab. You the historians real,
[3:02:48] Speaker 1: quick all, Right so we read about, IT i think
[3:02:55] Speaker 1: a clear one In Cassius dio In roman. Histories he
[3:03:00] Speaker 1: says in his, reign During titus's, reign the False nero,
[3:03:07] Speaker 1: appeared who was An asiatic Name Terentius Parrentius. Maximus he
[3:03:13] Speaker 1: Resembled nero both in appearance and in, voice for he
[3:03:16] Speaker 1: too sang with the accompaniment of the, liar Which nero
[3:03:19] Speaker 1: was known. For he gained a few followers In, asia
[3:03:22] Speaker 1: and in his advance into The, euphrates attached a far greater,
[3:03:27] Speaker 1: number and finally sought refuge With, artabanus The parthian, leader
[3:03:32] Speaker 1: but because of his anger Against, titus both received him
[3:03:35] Speaker 1: and set about making preparations to restore him To. Rome
[3:03:39] Speaker 1: so the leader of The parthians believed that this was
[3:03:42] Speaker 1: in Fact nero and was going to restore him to the.
[3:03:44] Speaker 1: Throne and then we read In tacitus And suetonius how
[3:03:50] Speaker 1: that actually. Happened it says that they went to. War
[3:03:53] Speaker 1: they actually went to war with The romans and then
[3:03:56] Speaker 1: obviously got their asses handed.
[3:03:58] Speaker 2: THEM i, MEAN i obviously can't respond to. That that's
[3:04:05] Speaker 2: like not not to, me the neither here nor, There
[3:04:08] Speaker 2: because you, know these these they.
[3:04:11] Speaker 1: WEREN'T i Was Christ, like there were eyewitnesses that the Resurrected.
[3:04:15] Speaker 1: NEROS i keep trying to tell, you so The, okay
[3:04:17] Speaker 1: let me let me give you some background On. Nero,
[3:04:20] Speaker 1: Okay So nero was known for like three. Things one
[3:04:24] Speaker 1: was the dude was always fucking. Gone he was always
[3:04:27] Speaker 1: Offen parthia doing plays in dramas and making their. Music
[3:04:33] Speaker 1: CAN i ask you a, question because we're talking about,
[3:04:35] Speaker 1: this how do you know? That because they wrote about.
[3:04:39] Speaker 1: It so we've got tons of documents from the from
[3:04:44] Speaker 1: the the ancient Sources, Tasses, Cassius, Dio. Suetonius not as
[3:04:49] Speaker 1: many as The New testament, manuscripts so, yeah we. Do, yeah,
[3:04:52] Speaker 1: no far More New testament. Manuscripts, well the number of
[3:04:56] Speaker 1: manuscripts is. Irrelevant the bulk Of New testament manuscripts come
[3:04:58] Speaker 1: from the medieval, Period like very few of them come
[3:05:02] Speaker 1: within even one hundred or two hundred years Of jesus'.
[3:05:05] Speaker 1: Lifetime we've got one fragment. P fifty two that's like
[3:05:10] Speaker 1: one hundred years maybe After jesus already, died and it's
[3:05:14] Speaker 1: like the size of a business.
[3:05:16] Speaker 2: Card, Okay SO i mean like historical reliability, Though, YEAH
[3:05:23] Speaker 2: i don't think there is historical.
[3:05:24] Speaker 1: Reliability in, fact it says In The Gods life That
[3:05:27] Speaker 1: jesus was born during the reign Of herod And herod
[3:05:31] Speaker 1: died in FOUR. Bce luke says That jesus was born
[3:05:35] Speaker 1: in SIX ce during the census Of. Quinarius they're off
[3:05:39] Speaker 1: by ten, years.
[3:05:41] Speaker 2: Bro but help me out understand. This how can you
[3:05:44] Speaker 2: cite literature About nero and say it's reliable when you
[3:05:49] Speaker 2: would Reject New testament manuscripts as being. Reliable for, example
[3:05:55] Speaker 2: let's say The book Of acts being a historical look
[3:05:58] Speaker 2: a real historical, document but you'll say that that can't be.
[3:06:02] Speaker 2: True but, hey my other book here about From tastinus
[3:06:05] Speaker 2: about neuro it's exciting something about neuro this is this is?
[3:06:08] Speaker 1: True, now how do you know what you're even saying
[3:06:11] Speaker 1: right now as. TRUE i think they're both true in
[3:06:14] Speaker 1: that they're telling, histories and they're both false when they
[3:06:18] Speaker 1: add mythology to the history of. Telling So herodotus does,
[3:06:21] Speaker 1: This tacitus does, This stonius does. This so they tell
[3:06:24] Speaker 1: stories that seem to actually happen in, history and then
[3:06:28] Speaker 1: they add mythological stuff to, It like if you Read,
[3:06:31] Speaker 1: atonius they claim That Vespasian Emperor vespasian healed a blind
[3:06:35] Speaker 1: man by spitting in his, eyes and healed another man
[3:06:38] Speaker 1: who had a lame leg by using the power of. Therapists,
[3:06:41] Speaker 1: OBVIOUSLY i don't believe that the power of therapist Compelled
[3:06:45] Speaker 1: vespasian to heal. Anybody we've got tons of healing miracles
[3:06:48] Speaker 1: told by The roman historians by the power Of. Asclepias
[3:06:52] Speaker 1: OBVIOUSLY i don't believe That ascleppius was healing. Anybody but
[3:06:55] Speaker 1: What i'm saying is just as reliable as you think
[3:06:58] Speaker 1: The new Test of Manuscript we also have The roman.
[3:07:01] Speaker 1: Histories The roman histories do the same thing as The
[3:07:04] Speaker 1: New testament, documents The New. Gospels they're purporting to tell
[3:07:09] Speaker 1: history and adding mythological stories on top of.
[3:07:13] Speaker 2: It, okay Sore As you're saying this is, like, hey
[3:07:16] Speaker 2: this might be. True this might be, True like what
[3:07:19] Speaker 2: you're talking about right now in terms of neuro, right
[3:07:22] Speaker 2: a history of Neuro.
[3:07:23] Speaker 1: Now, no, NO i don't think neuro rose from the. Dead
[3:07:25] Speaker 1: What i'm saying is The New testament manuscripts right are
[3:07:31] Speaker 1: doing the same thing That roman histories and biographers were.
[3:07:35] Speaker 1: Doing they're telling they're trying to tell history and adding
[3:07:39] Speaker 1: mythology on top of. It, certainly if you've Read life
[3:07:43] Speaker 1: of The Twelve, caesars you don't believe that six of
[3:07:45] Speaker 1: them ascended into heaven and became. Gods but that's part
[3:07:48] Speaker 1: of the. Histories they're adding mythology to their histories because to,
[3:07:52] Speaker 1: them the mythology is. True to everyone, else it's. Not
[3:07:56] Speaker 1: i'm saying the same WAY i reject the mythology in
[3:08:00] Speaker 1: The roman. HISTORIES i also reject the mythology in The christian. History, right, okay,
[3:08:06] Speaker 1: RIGHT i reject just one more mythology than, you because
[3:08:10] Speaker 1: you reject all The roman, mythologies and The roman mythologies
[3:08:13] Speaker 1: read just like The. GOSPELS i disagree with, that but,
[3:08:17] Speaker 1: okay have you read.
[3:08:18] Speaker 2: Them i've read.
[3:08:21] Speaker 1: You're talking about Like homer's work for, Examp, Well homer Was,
[3:08:23] Speaker 1: greek he came way before The, romans and he's doing
[3:08:27] Speaker 1: something completely. Different but if you've read like The iliad
[3:08:29] Speaker 1: and The, odyssey it's the same thing THAT i, say
[3:08:33] Speaker 1: that's more mythology than.
[3:08:34] Speaker 2: History, YEAH i would say that they're in terms of
[3:08:38] Speaker 2: genres of. Literature, now you couldn't compare The gospels and
[3:08:42] Speaker 2: The book Of acts to say The iliad or The.
[3:08:45] Speaker 1: Odyssey, NO i think The iliador in The, ODYSSEY i
[3:08:48] Speaker 1: think it's questionable on whether or Not homer thought that
[3:08:50] Speaker 1: they were completely true, stories or if he was writing.
[3:08:53] Speaker 1: Mythology But i'm talking about The roman, writings the ones
[3:08:56] Speaker 1: that are contemporaneous to The biblical. Writings in those they're
[3:09:00] Speaker 1: doing the exact same thing that The gospel is. Doing
[3:09:03] Speaker 1: so What i'm saying, is rather than saying all of
[3:09:06] Speaker 1: These roman mythological histories they're just all wrong and we
[3:09:11] Speaker 1: need to accept The biblical, One i'm, saying, NO i
[3:09:13] Speaker 1: read like all of. Them they're all saying the same
[3:09:15] Speaker 1: type of. Nonsense all of them are doing the same
[3:09:18] Speaker 1: weird like here's something that happened in, history but also
[3:09:21] Speaker 1: here's like this deified. God. Man i'm, saying, no, NO i
[3:09:24] Speaker 1: don't believe any of this. Nonsense, Okay, okay that's.
[3:09:28] Speaker 2: Fair i'm just you, Know i'm trying to, understand, like
[3:09:31] Speaker 2: like how you even know what is? True like where
[3:09:34] Speaker 2: is your even you're in your view of how to acquire?
[3:09:39] Speaker 2: Knowledge because you believe in, history, right you're talking about historical.
[3:09:43] Speaker 1: Things how do you know what is true and what's not?
[3:09:46] Speaker 2: True or you just kind of don't.
[3:09:48] Speaker 1: Know, well true is that which is in accordance with the, reality,
[3:09:52] Speaker 1: Right so we have to observe the reality around. Us
[3:09:55] Speaker 1: so when someone makes a claim and it's not in
[3:09:57] Speaker 1: alignment with, reality we would just, say, well it's not.
[3:10:00] Speaker 1: True and you but you'd agree that history you. Can't
[3:10:04] Speaker 1: you weren't, there, Right so nobody's.
[3:10:07] Speaker 2: Definition you can't say, that, hey that historical event happened or.
[3:10:11] Speaker 2: Didn't BUT i would assume you'd, say you, Know washington
[3:10:14] Speaker 2: across The, delaware, right for, example you'd say that's.
[3:10:17] Speaker 1: TRUE i don't know if it. Is What i'm saying
[3:10:19] Speaker 1: IS i don't know that you can say anything in
[3:10:22] Speaker 1: history happened the way that it was. Written because like
[3:10:25] Speaker 1: if you just compare like the individual war, annals if
[3:10:28] Speaker 1: you compare the war annals of The egyptians When Pharaoh
[3:10:31] Speaker 1: necho went to war up In megido Or, Carkamish when
[3:10:35] Speaker 1: When Pharaoh necho when his like when The egyptians write
[3:10:38] Speaker 1: about them going to war against The babylonians and The.
[3:10:40] Speaker 1: Israelites when you read the writings of The, egyptians he
[3:10:43] Speaker 1: read the writings of The, babylonians and you read the
[3:10:45] Speaker 1: writings of the of The, jews and they all. Differ
[3:10:48] Speaker 1: isn't that weird how they all? Differ so was there a? War?
[3:10:52] Speaker 1: Yeah absolutely DO i believe like the individualist spin on the.
[3:10:56] Speaker 2: War how can you actually say? That?
[3:10:59] Speaker 1: Though then say? What? Right, Okay, like how do you
[3:11:03] Speaker 1: know That George washington crossed The? DELAWARE i have really
[3:11:05] Speaker 1: no idea if he. Did i'm saying that when we
[3:11:08] Speaker 1: have three different people groups and they all say we
[3:11:10] Speaker 1: went to war at this, Location i'm okay. Admitting i'm okay, saying,
[3:11:15] Speaker 1: yeah these fuckers probably went to. War they have no
[3:11:17] Speaker 1: reason to lie about. It all three people groups wrote about. It,
[3:11:19] Speaker 1: now WHAT i don't believe is all the stuff that
[3:11:22] Speaker 1: appears to be manufactured to make their people groups sound.
[3:11:26] Speaker 1: Better so The jews wrote about these wars to make
[3:11:29] Speaker 1: them sound, Better The egyptians wrote about these wars to
[3:11:32] Speaker 1: make them sound. Better The babylonians did the same. Thing i'm, saying,
[3:11:35] Speaker 1: listen the SPIN i don't. ACCEPT i will accept the
[3:11:38] Speaker 1: fact that these three people groups went.
[3:11:39] Speaker 2: To war and the context, though where you're, saying, hey
[3:11:44] Speaker 2: this is, manufactured you're saying is. Manufactured but could something
[3:11:49] Speaker 2: which you believe to be, manufactured actually be true in
[3:11:52] Speaker 2: accordance with? Reality?
[3:11:54] Speaker 1: Right do you think that when The king Of babylon
[3:11:57] Speaker 1: breached the wall Of jerusalem that the people fell backwards
[3:12:01] Speaker 1: because of the splendor and majesty of The king Of?
[3:12:04] Speaker 1: Babylon but what's your WHAT'S i want to? Hear what
[3:12:10] Speaker 1: your point is? There do you think that? HAPPENED i
[3:12:14] Speaker 1: believe everything The biblical test is. TRUE i didn't ask
[3:12:17] Speaker 1: you if That babel said. IT i, said do you
[3:12:18] Speaker 1: believe that when The king Of babylon breached the wall
[3:12:21] Speaker 1: Of jerusalem that the army of the enemies Of babylon
[3:12:25] Speaker 1: all fell backwards because they saw the radiance and the
[3:12:28] Speaker 1: glory of The king Of. Babylon i'm not telling. You
[3:12:33] Speaker 1: do you believe? It if it's a, DESCRIPTIONS i believe.
[3:12:36] Speaker 1: It see this is Rob your starting point IS i
[3:12:38] Speaker 1: believe it because it's in my. Book your starting point
[3:12:41] Speaker 1: should BE i believe it if it's, true AND i
[3:12:44] Speaker 1: determined if it's true by observing whether or not it
[3:12:47] Speaker 1: imagines what we expect reality to. BE i don't know
[3:12:50] Speaker 1: why you would expect an army to fall backwards because
[3:12:55] Speaker 1: a particular king showed up when they breached the wall
[3:12:58] Speaker 1: of the, city and his radiance exuded from his body
[3:13:01] Speaker 1: and scared. Everybody why would you believe? THAT i, mean
[3:13:04] Speaker 1: that's probably.
[3:13:05] Speaker 2: The same way that you can believe that the scientific
[3:13:08] Speaker 2: impossibility that life came from non.
[3:13:10] Speaker 1: Life that's not a scientific. Impossibility AND i will not
[3:13:13] Speaker 1: let you. Pivot, Well i'm just, saying you're you're you're.
[3:13:17] Speaker 2: Saying, hey you can't believe in this.
[3:13:19] Speaker 1: Mirror there's a crazy. Pivot i'm gonna whiplash over. HERE
[3:13:23] Speaker 1: i said nothing about a. Miracle just so you, Know,
[3:13:25] Speaker 1: david that's not in The. Bible that's a claim made
[3:13:28] Speaker 1: by The babylonian. King IF i remember, correctly it Was.
[3:13:30] Speaker 1: Snakarib so What i'm saying, is, yes The babylonians went
[3:13:35] Speaker 1: to war Against judea and they breached the. Wall, no
[3:13:39] Speaker 1: it's ridiculous to believe that when The babylonian king breached
[3:13:42] Speaker 1: the wall Of jerusalem that the entire army fell backwards
[3:13:45] Speaker 1: because of his glorious. Radiance that's. Crazy What i'm saying
[3:13:49] Speaker 1: is WHEN i read the same crazy stuff in The,
[3:13:52] Speaker 1: BIBLE i, say, yeah that's the same crazy. STUFF i
[3:13:54] Speaker 1: don't believe that. Either the difference between you and me
[3:13:57] Speaker 1: Is i'm willing to use the same judgment for The
[3:13:59] Speaker 1: bible THAT i would use for other, books and you
[3:14:01] Speaker 1: can't do.
[3:14:02] Speaker 2: That, no you're, RIGHT i can't do.
[3:14:05] Speaker 1: That it's, impossible, right because your starting point is it's
[3:14:08] Speaker 1: true and it can't be. Wrong and this was the
[3:14:11] Speaker 1: same thing that somebody told me WHEN i was A.
[3:14:13] Speaker 1: Christian WHEN i was out on the, internet back before social,
[3:14:17] Speaker 1: media having discussions with, ATHEISTS i had a very good
[3:14:20] Speaker 1: friend who's an atheists said this suggestin your starting point
[3:14:23] Speaker 1: is that The bible has to be true and it's
[3:14:26] Speaker 1: up to me to prove it. Wrong but have you
[3:14:28] Speaker 1: actually tried going through The bible from the beginning and,
[3:14:30] Speaker 1: saying can you actually prove it to be? Right or
[3:14:33] Speaker 1: do you only demand that it has to be? Right
[3:14:35] Speaker 1: SO i went through that, summer read the Entire bible
[3:14:38] Speaker 1: from front to, back AND i asked myself with every,
[3:14:40] Speaker 1: chapter CAN i prove this to be? Right or DO
[3:14:43] Speaker 1: i just believe it to be? Right Because i'm already A?
[3:14:45] Speaker 1: Christian and it turned OUT i was doing the same
[3:14:48] Speaker 1: thing you're doing, Now. DAVE i was only accepting it
[3:14:50] Speaker 1: because it was part of my. Religion it was part
[3:14:52] Speaker 1: of the THING i already. BELIEVED i couldn't prove any
[3:14:54] Speaker 1: of it to be.
[3:14:55] Speaker 2: True but history is as so. Much you can't prove
[3:15:01] Speaker 2: history to be true.
[3:15:02] Speaker 1: Or not if you were not, there LIKE i.
[3:15:04] Speaker 2: Can't, right you can't say anymore THAN i. Could, hey
[3:15:08] Speaker 2: here's definitive evidence in front.
[3:15:10] Speaker 1: Of you that the world was.
[3:15:12] Speaker 2: Created, WELL i don't know what your belief is, on like,
[3:15:14] Speaker 2: say the origin of, life but we weren't, there and
[3:15:18] Speaker 2: so therefore we can never make a historical claim outside
[3:15:22] Speaker 2: of some. Knowledge AND i would say that there is
[3:15:25] Speaker 2: divine knowledge and also logical reasonable evidence That god created
[3:15:31] Speaker 2: life because life does not come from non.
[3:15:33] Speaker 1: Life, okay that true life literally does come from non.
[3:15:36] Speaker 1: Life in, fact you're made of non life right. Now
[3:15:39] Speaker 1: every atom in your body is technically not. Alive so
[3:15:45] Speaker 1: when has life ever come from non? Life always it's
[3:15:49] Speaker 1: only done, that that's all it's ever. Done in, fact
[3:15:51] Speaker 1: we see it happening even in outer. Space we find
[3:15:54] Speaker 1: on two different meteors recently we found a self assembling
[3:15:58] Speaker 1: amino acids and protein on each of.
[3:16:01] Speaker 2: Them so your your your view is, that, UH i,
[3:16:06] Speaker 2: MEAN i don't want.
[3:16:07] Speaker 1: TO i don't want to oversimplify. It but your view
[3:16:09] Speaker 1: is that carbon became.
[3:16:12] Speaker 2: Sentient, yeah, okay and how does that? Happen have you
[3:16:19] Speaker 2: never read? Evolution do you know how this?
[3:16:21] Speaker 1: Works? NO i MEAN i. UNDERSTAND i know one. Thing
[3:16:26] Speaker 1: it wasn't a magic man in the. Sky how do
[3:16:31] Speaker 1: you know? That because evolution has. Evidence the magic man has.
[3:16:34] Speaker 1: None so evolution has an entire body of. Evidence AND
[3:16:39] Speaker 1: i think the best evidence that we evolved from lower
[3:16:42] Speaker 1: life forms is THE dna. Evidence THE dna, evidence we
[3:16:46] Speaker 1: have very strong evidence that we were in fact from
[3:16:50] Speaker 1: a common ancestor with The Great, family which is why
[3:16:53] Speaker 1: we're classified as as. Apes so do you know what
[3:16:56] Speaker 1: in an endogenous? Rectroviruses?
[3:17:00] Speaker 2: DON'T i have a? Question how can you say that
[3:17:04] Speaker 2: as true when we don't have any evidence of life
[3:17:07] Speaker 2: coming from non life we.
[3:17:08] Speaker 1: Do i'll explain it to. You, Okay so In dodger's,
[3:17:11] Speaker 1: Nuctraviruses i'm going to show you a picture IF i
[3:17:15] Speaker 1: can grab a good.
[3:17:16] Speaker 2: One, hey while you're looking at, that, up are you
[3:17:19] Speaker 2: A you're like a savant?
[3:17:21] Speaker 1: Man you got like a ridiculous. MEMORY i don't know
[3:17:26] Speaker 1: IF i classify myself as a, Savant but as it
[3:17:30] Speaker 1: turns out for some, REASON i do have a gift
[3:17:35] Speaker 1: of being able to read stuff and remember WHAT i.
[3:17:38] Speaker 1: READ i. DON'T i don't remember shit THAT i. HEAR
[3:17:41] Speaker 1: i have like one, skill and my one skill is
[3:17:44] Speaker 1: to remember stuff THAT i. Read that's about. It so
[3:17:49] Speaker 1: it's not a bad. One it's one of the reasons,
[3:17:52] Speaker 1: Why like WHEN i was reading The, bible it was
[3:17:54] Speaker 1: so easy to find all the plot holes and in
[3:18:00] Speaker 1: consistencies BECAUSE i remembered the stuff THAT i was THAT
[3:18:02] Speaker 1: i had already. READ i was, like, oh well that
[3:18:04] Speaker 1: kindredicts out other thing that was already. There so let
[3:18:07] Speaker 1: me Grab i'm going to show you a diagram real
[3:18:10] Speaker 1: quick of an endogenous. Retrovirus let's see if this one's.
[3:18:13] Speaker 2: HELPFUL i just want to SAY i know THAT i appreciate,
[3:18:17] Speaker 2: you AND i appreciate this. Conversation you're helping, me and
[3:18:23] Speaker 2: NOW i just wanted TO i wanted to let you
[3:18:25] Speaker 2: know that LIKE i appreciate the conversation and.
[3:18:29] Speaker 1: NOT i, think, yeah, YEAH i think you've Been you've
[3:18:32] Speaker 1: been quite. Cordial i've got no complaints about the call so.
[3:18:35] Speaker 1: FAR i think we're having a good. Time So i'm
[3:18:37] Speaker 1: going to show you a picture if it'll ever. LOAD
[3:18:41] Speaker 1: i don't know why it's taking a lifetime to. Load
[3:18:43] Speaker 1: there we, go all, right so this is like a
[3:18:47] Speaker 1: generic picture of an endogenous. Retrovirus and the basic explanation
[3:18:52] Speaker 1: here is that this little snippet in. Orange ACTUALLY i.
[3:18:56] Speaker 1: Forgot can you see my?
[3:18:57] Speaker 2: Screen, yeah it's it's all BUT i see red YELLOW
[3:19:02] Speaker 2: dna looking structure and red yellow green blocks. There.
[3:19:07] Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah so the red structure in THE dna snippet
[3:19:10] Speaker 1: is FOREIGN, dna they're calling it VIRAL, dna and the
[3:19:14] Speaker 1: rest is like the HOST. Dna so what happens is
[3:19:16] Speaker 1: like sometimes when foreign viruses get into the, body they'll
[3:19:20] Speaker 1: actually INSERT dna into our HUMAN, dna and you can
[3:19:26] Speaker 1: typically know where they show up because they leave. Indicators
[3:19:29] Speaker 1: so like where the FOREIGN dna and the HOST dna,
[3:19:33] Speaker 1: meet there'd be like a little bit of pinch of.
[3:19:35] Speaker 1: Scarring you can identify the beginning and the end by the.
[3:19:39] Speaker 1: Scarring and we've done tons of studies causing retroviruses on,
[3:19:44] Speaker 1: purpose just so we can study. Them now here's the
[3:19:46] Speaker 1: fun thing about. Retroviruses right when we look at the human,
[3:19:49] Speaker 1: Genome now that we've mapped the human, genome what we
[3:19:51] Speaker 1: discover is that because retroviruses make it into OUR, dna
[3:19:56] Speaker 1: make it into our, genome they get passed on to our. Children,
[3:19:59] Speaker 1: now the human species has at a minimum like two
[3:20:04] Speaker 1: hundred plus retroviruses that all humans, have every one of
[3:20:08] Speaker 1: them so living today. Obviously so what that means is
[3:20:13] Speaker 1: that all of us had a common ancestor who had that. Retrovirus,
[3:20:18] Speaker 1: now the interesting thing is about eighty percent unless we
[3:20:23] Speaker 1: find more of. Them about eighty percent of the retroviruses
[3:20:27] Speaker 1: that humans have we also share with the great, apes
[3:20:30] Speaker 1: which means we had to SHARE dna with the great
[3:20:33] Speaker 1: apes because there's no way for them to have those.
[3:20:35] Speaker 1: Retroviruses and the fun thing about retroviruses is that they
[3:20:38] Speaker 1: show up in the same segment of THE dna every. Time,
[3:20:41] Speaker 1: so for, example let's imagine that the segment is abcd RETROVIRUS. Efg,
[3:20:48] Speaker 1: right it shows up that way every time, everywhere and
[3:20:52] Speaker 1: then we find the same thing in The great. Apes
[3:20:55] Speaker 1: so the fun thing about the, retroviruses most of, them
[3:20:58] Speaker 1: almost all of, them that we share with The great,
[3:21:00] Speaker 1: apes they don't show up anywhere in the animal. Kingdom,
[3:21:03] Speaker 1: ever they don't exist outside of humans and great, apes
[3:21:07] Speaker 1: which is why it's the best evidence in my, view
[3:21:10] Speaker 1: that we evolved from LOWER i don't say lower life,
[3:21:13] Speaker 1: forms but we'll say less intelligent life forms a common
[3:21:16] Speaker 1: ancestor with the.
[3:21:17] Speaker 2: Apes, OKAY i you know it's hard for me to
[3:21:24] Speaker 2: arrive at a place where we say that sentient human
[3:21:27] Speaker 2: level intelligence came from non. Life. WHY i think that's
[3:21:32] Speaker 2: a great leap because it's never happened.
[3:21:34] Speaker 1: Before, no it, did and we're doing it right. Now
[3:21:37] Speaker 1: we are. It like saying it never happened before is
[3:21:41] Speaker 1: just saying like we're going to ignore all the evidence
[3:21:43] Speaker 1: that we are the example of.
[3:21:45] Speaker 2: It, like how do rocks become? Living they.
[3:21:49] Speaker 1: Don't rocks aren't. Living, Okay so where did the first
[3:21:52] Speaker 1: life worm come?
[3:21:53] Speaker 2: From motter? Space so the water and other like not
[3:21:59] Speaker 2: locationally like, actually like how how was the first life? One?
[3:22:02] Speaker 1: Created a? Biogenesis so the theory of abiogenesis is that
[3:22:11] Speaker 1: all you need is the right mixture of like, no
[3:22:16] Speaker 1: what's the word of prebiotic? Life and then you need
[3:22:21] Speaker 1: like an energy, source so like thermal, events. Electricity there's
[3:22:27] Speaker 1: a million ways you can do. It we've got experiments demonstrating.
[3:22:30] Speaker 1: This The Uri miller experiment was the first one it's
[3:22:33] Speaker 1: been duplicated since you can literally go out and watch
[3:22:37] Speaker 1: people like scientists on the internet reproducing the experiment showing
[3:22:40] Speaker 1: that you can and actually induce now a, biogenesis and
[3:22:45] Speaker 1: you're merely The Uri miller experiment are. Identical, Right one
[3:22:50] Speaker 1: is showing how you can cause, uh you, know reproducible,
[3:22:58] Speaker 1: material and one like, abiogenesis is how does it become
[3:23:03] Speaker 1: what we would call. Life The Uri miller experiment isn't
[3:23:06] Speaker 1: quite a, biogenesis but that being, said we've got a
[3:23:10] Speaker 1: lot of examples of, that and we've even done synthetic
[3:23:13] Speaker 1: first living cells as, well where we've taken the building
[3:23:15] Speaker 1: blocks of what are believed the very first living cells
[3:23:19] Speaker 1: and then we put them together and then see if
[3:23:22] Speaker 1: they would reproduce and, live and they. Did they're called
[3:23:25] Speaker 1: synthetic living. Cells, so like what we know from science is,
[3:23:29] Speaker 1: that like we just have to combine the right materials
[3:23:33] Speaker 1: and they will in fact reproduce and consume energy from the,
[3:23:37] Speaker 1: environment and then you give it a couple billion years
[3:23:40] Speaker 1: of evolution and bada bing bada. BOOM i don't think
[3:23:43] Speaker 1: people appreciate how long a billion years.
[3:23:46] Speaker 2: Is, YEAH i, MEAN i hear, you but that's just
[3:23:52] Speaker 2: never been proven to be. True that's why it's called a.
[3:23:55] Speaker 2: Theory right that you can't say that after a hundred
[3:23:59] Speaker 2: billion years or trillions of, years that carbon is just
[3:24:03] Speaker 2: going to become. Sentient why could it?
[3:24:06] Speaker 1: Not the argument you're providing is typically called the argument from. Incredulity,
[3:24:12] Speaker 1: Right So i'm saying the evidence that we have demonstrates
[3:24:16] Speaker 1: that it is. Possible now you're saying it's not. Possible
[3:24:20] Speaker 1: but you're not providing an. Argument you're just saying it
[3:24:22] Speaker 1: can't be. Possible, like is there an argument why it
[3:24:24] Speaker 1: can't be? POSSIBLE i would say that it's a. Miracle,
[3:24:28] Speaker 1: No But i'm asking for an argument why it's not.
[3:24:30] Speaker 2: Possible why it's not possible that non life can become?
[3:24:35] Speaker 2: LIFE i, MEAN i believe that it is. POSSIBLE i
[3:24:42] Speaker 2: think it's only possible Through.
[3:24:43] Speaker 1: God i'm asking for an. Argument. Right first of, all
[3:24:48] Speaker 1: you'd have to demonstrate that Your god exists before you
[3:24:51] Speaker 1: postulate that he's the cause of. Anything, Right i'm asking,
[3:24:54] Speaker 1: you based from a scientific, perspective is there a reason,
[3:25:01] Speaker 1: why in, fact we couldn't get sentient life from.
[3:25:05] Speaker 2: CHEMICALS i don't see how the science would ever lead
[3:25:11] Speaker 2: you to believe that that's.
[3:25:12] Speaker 1: Possible what, science what science would contradict?
[3:25:15] Speaker 2: It, well for, EXAMPLE i don't see how you could
[3:25:20] Speaker 2: HAVE dna like, obviously Like i'm sure you actually know
[3:25:23] Speaker 2: much better THAN i DO. Dna the complexity of that
[3:25:26] Speaker 2: structure is so insanely. COMPLEX i don't see, how, RIGHT
[3:25:32] Speaker 2: i don't see how you take carbon and you you
[3:25:35] Speaker 2: input his carbon and output HIS.
[3:25:37] Speaker 1: Dna that's what life. Is life isn't. CARBON i don't know.
[3:25:41] Speaker 2: Why, oh JUST i thought most life forms are carbon based, life.
[3:25:47] Speaker 1: Right, yeah but you need, hydrogen, oxygen, Protein, like there's
[3:25:54] Speaker 1: lots of stuff that goes into like a, cell because
[3:25:58] Speaker 1: not just. Carbon, yeah, sure you need amino, acids fatty, acids, lipids,
[3:26:06] Speaker 1: like there's lots of stuff that goes into a.
[3:26:08] Speaker 2: Cell AND i don't understand how you can arrive at
[3:26:13] Speaker 2: that output of we are like the sentience of of
[3:26:17] Speaker 2: a human intelligence from, nothing from no.
[3:26:21] Speaker 1: Life i'm asking why you can't do? It what's the hold?
[3:26:24] Speaker 1: Up why can't it?
[3:26:25] Speaker 2: Happen how is the burden of proof on me to
[3:26:29] Speaker 2: say that that's that's, Possible that that doesn't seem logically.
[3:26:32] Speaker 1: Possible what's illogical about?
[3:26:34] Speaker 2: IT i, mean from the SAME i would, say it's
[3:26:39] Speaker 2: it's as illogically possible as me teleporting to you right.
[3:26:43] Speaker 1: Now, yeah but what's illogical about?
[3:26:45] Speaker 2: It about about that?
[3:26:50] Speaker 1: Situation? Yeah, MAN i don't. Know it just it seems
[3:26:55] Speaker 1: ludicrous to, me, Right that's why it's an argument from,
[3:26:58] Speaker 1: incredulity which is a logical. Fallacy an argument from incredulity
[3:27:02] Speaker 1: just MEANS i don't know how it could, happen therefore
[3:27:05] Speaker 1: it couldn't have. Happened but that's not like a valid,
[3:27:07] Speaker 1: Argument Like i've got lots of arguments that demonstrate that
[3:27:11] Speaker 1: the god you believe in could not. Exist but you
[3:27:14] Speaker 1: don't have any arguments against my. Worldview oh SURE i.
[3:27:18] Speaker 1: DO i don't think you. Do.
[3:27:21] Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, okay so let's just where? Where what is Your,
[3:27:26] Speaker 2: okay let me understand your world to you? First what
[3:27:29] Speaker 2: is your?
[3:27:29] Speaker 1: World to?
[3:27:29] Speaker 2: Where why are we? Here where did we come? From
[3:27:33] Speaker 2: and what are we doing?
[3:27:34] Speaker 1: Here we don't have a. Purpose purpose is given by.
[3:27:38] Speaker 1: OURSELVES i decide what my purpose. Is we don't have
[3:27:41] Speaker 1: a reason for being. Here the universes both eternal and. Chaotic,
[3:27:46] Speaker 1: Okay and do you believe in right and, wrong good and? Evil,
[3:27:50] Speaker 1: no right and, wrong good or? Evil or subjective. Words
[3:27:53] Speaker 1: we decide what those words. Mean And i've never not
[3:27:58] Speaker 1: even once ever heard someone come close to providing an
[3:28:01] Speaker 1: argument for why objective morals. Exist, okay so is rape objectively?
[3:28:06] Speaker 1: WRONG i just told you objective morals don't. Exist, okay
[3:28:09] Speaker 1: so is rape objectively? WRONG i just told. You rape
[3:28:12] Speaker 1: is a relevant question if you're asking me if it's objectively,
[3:28:15] Speaker 1: moral because objective morals don't.
[3:28:17] Speaker 2: Exist, okay is rape?
[3:28:19] Speaker 1: Wrong i'll try this. Again yea objective morals don't. Exist,
[3:28:22] Speaker 1: Okay so subjectively is rape wrong to?
[3:28:24] Speaker 2: You?
[3:28:25] Speaker 1: Yeah? Why because it's my subjective? Opinion, yeah but you
[3:28:30] Speaker 1: have to substantiate. That. Right you have an opinion for
[3:28:32] Speaker 1: a reason because it Causes, okay why is that? Bet
[3:28:37] Speaker 1: because it's subjectively something we all agree on is. Bad
[3:28:40] Speaker 1: do you want to be? HARMED i don't want to be. Harmed, no,
[3:28:44] Speaker 1: Neither Why and it turns out as a society we
[3:28:46] Speaker 1: agree we don't want to be harmed. Either. Right so
[3:28:49] Speaker 1: the reality is you can SAY i don't like subjective.
[3:28:51] Speaker 1: MORALITY i don't like. IT i. DON'T i can't pound
[3:28:55] Speaker 1: my fists and say that something's definitively. WRONG i get
[3:28:58] Speaker 1: it that you don't like, it but that's not in
[3:28:59] Speaker 1: our argument for objective morals. Existing you still have to
[3:29:02] Speaker 1: substantiate that objective morals do, exist AND i don't think you.
[3:29:05] Speaker 1: Can you just.
[3:29:07] Speaker 2: Said that it's wrong because society has agreed that it's
[3:29:10] Speaker 2: bad to do harm to. PEOPLE i didn't say, That,
[3:29:13] Speaker 2: Okay so why.
[3:29:16] Speaker 1: So? THEY i want TO i want to make sure
[3:29:17] Speaker 1: you're very clear on how objective or subjective morals. Work,
[3:29:21] Speaker 1: Right if there are no objective, morals then by, default
[3:29:25] Speaker 1: all morals are. Subjective do you agree.
[3:29:30] Speaker 2: If there are no objective, morals then all morals are?
[3:29:33] Speaker 1: Subjective, yep that's that's your. Statement do you agree with?
[3:29:36] Speaker 2: THAT i, MEAN i think it?
[3:29:41] Speaker 1: Like DO i agree with that like?
[3:29:43] Speaker 2: Definition? Yeah i'd have to think about. That MAYBE i.
[3:29:49] Speaker 1: DON'T i, mean what else could they? BE i. DON'T
[3:29:52] Speaker 1: i HONESTLY i.
[3:29:53] Speaker 2: DON'T i don't believe in subjective.
[3:29:54] Speaker 1: MORALITY i just don't think it's the logical.
[3:29:56] Speaker 2: CONCLUSION i.
[3:29:57] Speaker 1: DIDN'T i didn't ask you if you. DID i, said
[3:29:59] Speaker 1: if they're not, objective what else could could it? Be?
[3:30:05] Speaker 2: Okay i'll Buy, yeah, sir there's they're all subjective if
[3:30:08] Speaker 2: they're not, Objective, okay let's say.
[3:30:09] Speaker 1: That. Okay now the question we have to ask ourselves
[3:30:13] Speaker 1: is is there any evidence for morals being? Objective BECAUSE
[3:30:18] Speaker 1: i don't see. Any IF i saw, SOME i would
[3:30:21] Speaker 1: be an. Objectivist.
[3:30:28] Speaker 2: OKAY i believe that moral, truth moral right and wrong transcend, cultures, time,
[3:30:39] Speaker 2: people and whatever we THINK a Plus so two plus
[3:30:43] Speaker 2: two is, four whether anyone believes it or.
[3:30:46] Speaker 1: Not, Right it's a, math and morals aren't the same.
[3:30:48] Speaker 2: Thing, dave AND i, agree AND i agree to What i'm.
[3:30:52] Speaker 1: Asking for the argument that objective morals.
[3:30:55] Speaker 2: Exist rape would be wrong no matter WHAT i.
[3:30:58] Speaker 1: Think about it OR i know you about. IT i
[3:31:00] Speaker 1: know you believe, that But i'm asking for what you.
[3:31:02] Speaker 1: Believe i'm asking for an argument that ends in morals being, objective.
[3:31:08] Speaker 2: That rape is objectively.
[3:31:09] Speaker 1: Wrong, YEAH i know you believe. That i'm asking for
[3:31:12] Speaker 1: an argument that ends in.
[3:31:13] Speaker 2: That. Okay SO i believe that those moral truths that
[3:31:22] Speaker 2: you could say that murder is, wrong rape is wrong
[3:31:25] Speaker 2: are as true as you plus two being. Four what
[3:31:27] Speaker 2: is The how do you?
[3:31:28] Speaker 1: KNOW i know, You, DAVE i know you believe That
[3:31:31] Speaker 1: i'm asking for the evidence of. It. Right so here's
[3:31:33] Speaker 1: Where i'm. SORRY i put the wrong thing on the.
[3:31:35] Speaker 1: Screen i'm gonna put somebody on the screen for. You
[3:31:37] Speaker 1: here's where we're at so far in the. Conversation, Right
[3:31:40] Speaker 1: you've got your, conclusion, right your conclusion is that morals are. Objective,
[3:31:45] Speaker 1: now what we're missing from that conclusion is a premise
[3:31:49] Speaker 1: or an argument for that. Conclusion that's what we. Need,
[3:31:51] Speaker 1: Right so this is Like god, exists that's my. Premise
[3:31:55] Speaker 1: those are that's the non sequitor because if If god,
[3:32:00] Speaker 1: exists doesn't have anything to say with where they're. Not
[3:32:02] Speaker 1: morals are, objective and you can't prove That god exists
[3:32:04] Speaker 1: in the first. Place in, fact in your, worldview if
[3:32:07] Speaker 1: Your god, exists then you don't believe in objective morals.
[3:32:10] Speaker 1: Either you believe in subjective. Morals it's just that they're
[3:32:13] Speaker 1: subject to the mind Of.
[3:32:14] Speaker 2: God, well they're objective to. Humans they're subjective to so.
[3:32:24] Speaker 1: That's not what subjective. Means so that's not what objective. Means,
[3:32:28] Speaker 1: Right so if they're subject to any, mind even the
[3:32:32] Speaker 1: mind Of, god that means they're. Subjective you can say
[3:32:36] Speaker 1: they're subject To, god but that they're still not. Objective
[3:32:40] Speaker 1: they are subject To god and objective to. People that's
[3:32:44] Speaker 1: not how objective. Works objective means without.
[3:32:47] Speaker 2: Anybody give me the right word. There.
[3:32:51] Speaker 1: H so you believe in divine command. Theory, Right so
[3:32:54] Speaker 1: if they're, objective that means without needing a, mind they're absent.
[3:33:00] Speaker 1: Mind it doesn't matter what your mind will an emotions.
[3:33:03] Speaker 1: Say it doesn't matter what anyone's mind will an emotion?
[3:33:06] Speaker 1: Say they are they are true independent of any. Mind,
[3:33:11] Speaker 1: now Your god has a, mind and Your god tells
[3:33:13] Speaker 1: you what moral, is which means if Your god is
[3:33:16] Speaker 1: the arbiter of, morals you believe in subjective, morals not objective.
[3:33:19] Speaker 1: Morals you just think that they're subject to the mind
[3:33:22] Speaker 1: Of god rather than the mind of.
[3:33:23] Speaker 2: Humans you could label. Up you can label it that.
[3:33:26] Speaker 2: Way that finds.
[3:33:27] Speaker 1: Me, Okay so you don't believe in objective, morals you
[3:33:29] Speaker 1: believe in divine command. Theory, RIGHT i mean an objective
[3:33:34] Speaker 1: from from the mind of a.
[3:33:35] Speaker 2: Human they are.
[3:33:37] Speaker 1: Objective that's not what objective. Means, well you're not giving
[3:33:41] Speaker 1: me the right. WAY i don't know the right word.
[3:33:43] Speaker 1: Here they're? Subjective, no because it's not subjective to?
[3:33:47] Speaker 2: Me right? You?
[3:33:48] Speaker 1: You but, okay so what do you know what the
[3:33:52] Speaker 1: word subjective?
[3:33:53] Speaker 2: Means that your it's this your, truth my. Truth it's
[3:33:59] Speaker 2: you have your own belief of what the reason we're, here,
[3:34:03] Speaker 2: RIGHT i have my own belief they can. Coexist there
[3:34:06] Speaker 2: isn't some truth that is anchored on, right there's jacological moral.
[3:34:11] Speaker 1: Truth subjective means that it's based or grounded in a. Mind,
[3:34:18] Speaker 1: Right and if morals are grounded in Your god's, mind
[3:34:21] Speaker 1: then you believe in subjective, morals but you believe that
[3:34:25] Speaker 1: they come From. GOD i see what you're.
[3:34:27] Speaker 2: Saying but to call me a subjective moralist is, like
[3:34:30] Speaker 2: that's not what you would call someone that's subjectively.
[3:34:33] Speaker 1: Moral you, Would, yeah if morals are subject to a,
[3:34:38] Speaker 1: mind and that Is god's, mind you believe in subjective.
[3:34:41] Speaker 1: Morals if morals were, objective it wouldn't matter what was
[3:34:45] Speaker 1: In god's, mind they would just be. Objective all.
[3:34:48] Speaker 2: Right, WELL i feel like we're kind of getting off
[3:34:51] Speaker 2: the road here a little. Bit so here's the Issue
[3:34:53] Speaker 2: i'm seeing is, that, like if you, said, hey you
[3:34:56] Speaker 2: have subjective, morality you wouldn't normally be saying that's someone who's, saying,
[3:35:00] Speaker 2: HEY i believe That god is the arbiter of truth and.
[3:35:03] Speaker 2: Morality you wouldn't normally classify someone that says as, like,
[3:35:06] Speaker 2: hey you're a subjective, moralist.
[3:35:09] Speaker 1: Right, Yeah i'm specifically doing it with, You, dave because
[3:35:12] Speaker 1: you don't think that you're a subjective, moralist but you.
[3:35:15] Speaker 1: Are you believe in the subjective morals Of. God And
[3:35:18] Speaker 1: i'm gonna explain to you why that's, dangerous, right because
[3:35:22] Speaker 1: your form of subjective morals means that you believe in
[3:35:25] Speaker 1: divine command, theory which means Everything god commands you to
[3:35:28] Speaker 1: do is thereby. Justified, Right, like If god tells you
[3:35:34] Speaker 1: to do, it then it must be good to.
[3:35:35] Speaker 2: Do it.
[3:35:38] Speaker 1: If it was Truly, God, yes, Exactly, so if it
[3:35:41] Speaker 1: was Truly, god then it's always a good thing to.
[3:35:43] Speaker 1: Do so like When god gives, laws he can't give bad.
[3:35:46] Speaker 1: Laws all of his laws by definition are, good, right, yes,
[3:35:54] Speaker 1: right because if it comes From, god it has to
[3:35:57] Speaker 1: be good unless he's fooling.
[3:35:59] Speaker 2: You.
[3:35:59] Speaker 1: Right but this falls apart as soon as you start
[3:36:02] Speaker 1: reading Like god's. Commands for, example if you go To
[3:36:05] Speaker 1: deuteronomy twenty, two he, says suppose a man marries a,
[3:36:09] Speaker 1: woman but after going into, her dislikes her and makes
[3:36:11] Speaker 1: up charges against, her slammed during her by SAYING i
[3:36:15] Speaker 1: married this, woman but WHEN i lay with, HER i
[3:36:16] Speaker 1: did not find evidence of her. Virginity the father of
[3:36:19] Speaker 1: the young woman and her mother shall then submit the
[3:36:21] Speaker 1: evidence of the young woman's virginity to the elders of
[3:36:25] Speaker 1: the city at the. Gate, okay so. Far what it's
[3:36:28] Speaker 1: saying here is if there's a guy and he marries a,
[3:36:31] Speaker 1: woman goes into her, right he sleeps with, her and
[3:36:34] Speaker 1: he doesn't find the evidence of her, virginity namely the.
[3:36:36] Speaker 1: Bleeding he's, like, hey we got a problem, here let's
[3:36:39] Speaker 1: go to. Court we had agreement so. Far, okay. Okay
[3:36:44] Speaker 1: now what happens is if they end up in court
[3:36:46] Speaker 1: because he's charging her with not being a, virgin says
[3:36:52] Speaker 1: the father of the young woman shall say to the,
[3:36:54] Speaker 1: ELDERS i gave my daughter a marriage to this, man
[3:36:56] Speaker 1: but he dislikes, her and now he's made up charges against,
[3:36:59] Speaker 1: her SAYING i did not find evidence of your daughter's,
[3:37:02] Speaker 1: virginity but here is the evidence of my daughter's. Virginity
[3:37:06] Speaker 1: then they shall spread out the cloth before the elders
[3:37:09] Speaker 1: of the. Town the elders of that town shall take
[3:37:12] Speaker 1: the man and punish. Him so he's, saying, listen if
[3:37:14] Speaker 1: it turns out that the cloth has blood on. It
[3:37:18] Speaker 1: he's in trouble right. Now he's making up false charges
[3:37:21] Speaker 1: against a. Woman but it, says, if, however this charge is,
[3:37:25] Speaker 1: true that evidence of the young woman's virginity was not,
[3:37:28] Speaker 1: found then they shall bring the young woman out to
[3:37:30] Speaker 1: the entrance of her father's, house and the men of
[3:37:32] Speaker 1: her town shall stone her to death because she committed
[3:37:35] Speaker 1: a disgraceful act In israel by prostituting herself in her father's.
[3:37:38] Speaker 1: House so you shall purge the evil from among. You, Right,
[3:37:42] Speaker 1: so in this, command you would have to assume then
[3:37:46] Speaker 1: that in, fact it's good to kill women that aren't
[3:37:50] Speaker 1: virgins on their wedding. Night are you saying that this is?
[3:37:54] Speaker 1: BAD i think it's.
[3:37:56] Speaker 2: Bad, Okay, well how do you come to that.
[3:37:59] Speaker 1: Conclusion because it causes? HARM i told YOU i believe
[3:38:02] Speaker 1: in subjective, morals and my subjective, morals which are formed
[3:38:05] Speaker 1: by my, upbringing my, observation and society at large tells
[3:38:09] Speaker 1: me that we shouldn't kill women if they don't? Bleed
[3:38:13] Speaker 1: do you think we? Should but why is harm bad
[3:38:15] Speaker 1: in your? Worldview it's almost like you don't want to
[3:38:18] Speaker 1: answer my. Questions do you think it's? Bad to kill
[3:38:20] Speaker 1: women if they don't bleed under wedding.
[3:38:22] Speaker 2: Night i'm asking a different.
[3:38:27] Speaker 1: QUESTION i, know, yes you're avoiding my. QUESTION i. Know
[3:38:30] Speaker 1: do you think it's bad to kill women if they
[3:38:32] Speaker 1: don't bleed under wedding?
[3:38:33] Speaker 2: Night, Okay SO i don't know about this exact, passage
[3:38:37] Speaker 2: BUT i will say THAT i do know if some
[3:38:39] Speaker 2: scriptures were That moses is gave me this, law, Right,
[3:38:44] Speaker 2: yeah so you, know Like christ would, say, Hey moses
[3:38:47] Speaker 2: gave you that law because you were heart of, heart
[3:38:52] Speaker 2: right and in.
[3:38:53] Speaker 1: Regards to in regards to. Divorce, Yeah jesus said. That,
[3:38:58] Speaker 1: Okay so you're just gonna apply that to every law
[3:39:01] Speaker 1: Of moses you don't, Like, no BUT.
[3:39:03] Speaker 2: I think there's good textual evidence that some of the
[3:39:07] Speaker 2: some of the.
[3:39:09] Speaker 1: O IF i just want to let you, KNOW i
[3:39:10] Speaker 1: already know this talking, point and if you keep going
[3:39:12] Speaker 1: down this, road it's not going to. End, well that's,
[3:39:15] Speaker 1: fine that's. Fine go ahead if you feel like you. Must.
[3:39:17] Speaker 1: Okay is all of The torah applied for all?
[3:39:21] Speaker 2: Time any? Answers?
[3:39:23] Speaker 1: Now, yeah it is according To. God. Yeah he says
[3:39:25] Speaker 1: to follow the law, forever and he even says in
[3:39:28] Speaker 1: in the era where he circumcises the heart of the
[3:39:30] Speaker 1: people that they're going to follow this law that he's
[3:39:32] Speaker 1: given them. Today that's thirty.
[3:39:35] Speaker 2: Okay, Okay and you'd have to define what law is
[3:39:38] Speaker 2: there right.
[3:39:39] Speaker 1: The law that he's giving on this. Day all the
[3:39:42] Speaker 1: laws In deuteronomy were given on one day When moses
[3:39:45] Speaker 1: sat on the foot of the mountain and instructed The
[3:39:47] Speaker 1: israelites before they went into The Promised.
[3:39:49] Speaker 2: Land, Okay so there you know there is there is ceremonial.
[3:39:53] Speaker 2: Law there's moral code right.
[3:39:55] Speaker 1: THERE i, said whoever to, read you do around me Thirty.
[3:39:59] Speaker 2: God.
[3:40:00] Speaker 1: Yeah also keep in, mind even if this was, temporary
[3:40:02] Speaker 1: doesn't fix. It you want to know why it doesn't
[3:40:04] Speaker 1: fix it because not all women bleed their first, time
[3:40:09] Speaker 1: only about forty three percent of them. Do but the
[3:40:11] Speaker 1: ancient goat herders who wrote this book and pretended to
[3:40:14] Speaker 1: be talking For god didn't know. That so they, said
[3:40:17] Speaker 1: if a woman doesn't bleed on a wedding, night you
[3:40:19] Speaker 1: can stone her because they didn't know any, better which
[3:40:22] Speaker 1: means most of the, women if not all of them getting,
[3:40:25] Speaker 1: stoned were actually.
[3:40:25] Speaker 2: INNOCENT i don't see how that's a problem in your.
[3:40:28] Speaker 1: Worldview it's probably your. Worldview it's probably in mind, too
[3:40:33] Speaker 1: by the. Way so in my, WORLDVIEW i don't think
[3:40:37] Speaker 1: we should be executing women who don't. Bleed in my,
[3:40:40] Speaker 1: WORLDVIEW i believe in. Justice in your, world you don't
[3:40:43] Speaker 1: believe in. Justice in, fact Your god explicitly tells you
[3:40:47] Speaker 1: that he doesn't believe in.
[3:40:48] Speaker 2: Justice, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait tell me that that
[3:40:53] Speaker 2: is a very big.
[3:40:54] Speaker 1: CLAIM i want to we'll get their Next. David so
[3:40:57] Speaker 1: it says In deuteronomy thirty of the period where he
[3:41:01] Speaker 1: circumcises the heart of the. People you've read about this In,
[3:41:03] Speaker 1: jeremiah And ezekiel, says The Lord god will bring you
[3:41:07] Speaker 1: into the land that your ancestors, possessed and you will possess.
[3:41:10] Speaker 1: It and he will make you prosperous and, numerous more
[3:41:13] Speaker 1: than your. Ancestors if actually make you more prosperous and
[3:41:15] Speaker 1: numerous than your. Ancestors so this is the gathering when
[3:41:18] Speaker 1: he gathers all the, people, right he, says, moreover The
[3:41:22] Speaker 1: lord of your Your god will circumcize your heart and
[3:41:25] Speaker 1: the heart of your, descendants so that you will love
[3:41:27] Speaker 1: The lord Your god with all your, heart with all your,
[3:41:29] Speaker 1: soul that you may live this is obviously The New covenant.
[3:41:33] Speaker 1: Era The lord Your god will put these curses on
[3:41:36] Speaker 1: your enemies and on the adversaries who took advantage of.
[3:41:39] Speaker 1: You then you shall again obey The, lord observing all
[3:41:42] Speaker 1: of his commandments THAT i am commanding you. Today so
[3:41:48] Speaker 1: that means fun during The New testament. Era hold, on
[3:41:52] Speaker 1: we're In deuteronomy. Thirty he's. Saying during The New testament,
[3:41:55] Speaker 1: era WHEN i circumcisee your, hearts you are Vote new coven. Era,
[3:42:00] Speaker 1: sorry WHEN i circumcise your, heart you're going to be
[3:42:03] Speaker 1: following all of these. Laws, now what do you want
[3:42:06] Speaker 1: to know About exus Twenty, No.
[3:42:09] Speaker 2: I'm saying that you were talking about the commandments, here,
[3:42:11] Speaker 2: right and so The deuteronomy is are retelling?
[3:42:14] Speaker 1: Right this is the, second the second telling of the.
[3:42:17] Speaker 2: Law, yep, Okay AND i would say that the text
[3:42:21] Speaker 2: you just read is referring to The Ten, commandments the moral.
[3:42:24] Speaker 2: Law it was given in excess.
[3:42:26] Speaker 1: Twenty, no we'll try this, again he, says The lord Your.
[3:42:29] Speaker 1: God i'm. Sorry then you shall again obey The, lord
[3:42:31] Speaker 1: observing all of his commandments That i'm commanding you. Today
[3:42:35] Speaker 1: that Includes deuteronomy twenty. Two all of those commands came
[3:42:39] Speaker 1: in that. Day.
[3:42:42] Speaker 2: Okay so when we talked about The Ten commandments and
[3:42:44] Speaker 2: the law that was written on the, tablis you don't
[3:42:46] Speaker 2: think that the law written on the tablist was?
[3:42:48] Speaker 1: Unique he said. All there's no exception to the word.
[3:42:54] Speaker 1: All when he says you're going to observe all of
[3:42:56] Speaker 1: his Commandments i'm commanding you, today that means all of
[3:42:59] Speaker 1: the com comandments that he's commanding them that, day which
[3:43:03] Speaker 1: Includes duterono me twenty.
[3:43:04] Speaker 2: Two, Okay so that doesn't actually answer what we're talking about, here,
[3:43:12] Speaker 2: though because What i'm saying is that their ceremonial.
[3:43:16] Speaker 1: Law, dave do you remember WHY i read this to.
[3:43:17] Speaker 1: YOU i read this to you to demonstrate that there's
[3:43:24] Speaker 1: no intention of The god who gave these laws to
[3:43:26] Speaker 1: get rid of. Them there's no intention to do.
[3:43:29] Speaker 2: That And i'm not saying that there's intention to get
[3:43:34] Speaker 2: rid of. Them i'm saying that there are things like
[3:43:36] Speaker 2: circumcision which later did not become required for eventiles for a.
[3:43:41] Speaker 1: Reason. Wrong ezekiel And yahweh disagree with. You ezekiel forty
[3:43:46] Speaker 1: four nine literally says that during The New, Heaven New,
[3:43:49] Speaker 1: Earth New, jerusalem that the foreigners who worship With israel
[3:43:52] Speaker 1: must be. Circumcised, okay that's a.
[3:43:57] Speaker 2: Future that's a, future. Right i'm talking about.
[3:44:01] Speaker 1: The, gentiles new testing, gentiles and so you think we
[3:44:04] Speaker 1: shouldn't get circumcised, Now but when we go to, heaven
[3:44:06] Speaker 1: we got to get. CIRCUMCISED i don't.
[3:44:08] Speaker 2: Know how it'll, work but What i'm telling you is
[3:44:10] Speaker 2: that the text is clear that circumcision was not for the.
[3:44:13] Speaker 1: Gentiles all is clear about. That jesus disagree Is jesus
[3:44:17] Speaker 1: says to follow the law until heaven And earth pass. Away,
[3:44:20] Speaker 1: paul that maniac disagrees With. Jesus jesus, SAYS i did
[3:44:24] Speaker 1: not come to abolish the. Law paul says In ephesians chapter,
[3:44:27] Speaker 1: two fourteen and fifteen that he did abolish the. Law
[3:44:31] Speaker 1: they contradict each, other and they. Contradict paul Contradicts. Yahweh
[3:44:35] Speaker 1: this is WHY i keep trying to tell, YOU i
[3:44:36] Speaker 1: don't care What paul. Says. Yahweh the guy who gave
[3:44:39] Speaker 1: the command To deuteronomy twenty two said that you're going
[3:44:42] Speaker 1: to follow this law all the. Time he says the
[3:44:45] Speaker 1: same thing In deuteronomy, Twelve deuteronomy eleven over In ogovern
[3:44:48] Speaker 1: he tells you do this thing.
[3:44:50] Speaker 2: Forever any issue without, interpretation, though is that you're saying
[3:44:56] Speaker 2: that like there isn't. Laws they were just for the
[3:44:59] Speaker 2: levitical priests and for the people Of, israel which there were.
[3:45:04] Speaker 1: No one says there weren't individual laws for the. Priests
[3:45:07] Speaker 1: remember we still talk About deudarmy twenty. Two When god
[3:45:10] Speaker 1: says you can kill the women who don't. Believe the
[3:45:13] Speaker 1: question is does it still? Apply and the reality, is
[3:45:17] Speaker 1: according to The Old, testament, yes, yes it very much.
[3:45:19] Speaker 1: Does according To, jesus, yes yes it. Does Deuter army twelve,
[3:45:23] Speaker 1: say is these are the statues and ordinances that you
[3:45:25] Speaker 1: must diligently observe in the land that The, lord The
[3:45:28] Speaker 1: god of your, ancestors have given you to occupy all
[3:45:32] Speaker 1: the days that you live on the. Earth every day
[3:45:34] Speaker 1: that you're living on this earth is a day to
[3:45:36] Speaker 1: all these.
[3:45:37] Speaker 2: Commands, Right The Orthodox christian view would be that those
[3:45:41] Speaker 2: were civil laws gave into The israelites and not for
[3:45:45] Speaker 2: all men of all. Time that's The Orthodox christian.
[3:45:47] Speaker 1: View they would be wrong because in The Old testament
[3:45:51] Speaker 1: it says in the prophets that The israelites and the
[3:45:54] Speaker 1: foreigners will join. Together in, fact even In isaiah fifty
[3:45:58] Speaker 1: six literally says that the foreigners will make sacrifices on
[3:46:03] Speaker 1: the physical altar Of yahweh in the. Temple same thing With.
[3:46:07] Speaker 1: Eel his ego says the same thing forty, four forty,
[3:46:10] Speaker 1: five forty. Six foreigners will come and dwell With israel
[3:46:14] Speaker 1: and give offering in, sacrifices bulls, rams lambs libations inside the.
[3:46:21] Speaker 2: Temple, okay what you're. Saying i'm not saying That god
[3:46:29] Speaker 2: is abolishing. Laws i'm saying he has lost certain laws
[3:46:33] Speaker 2: for time and place and, people including The levites and
[3:46:37] Speaker 2: including Civil.
[3:46:39] Speaker 1: Israel and he, says do him. Forever and then he,
[3:46:44] Speaker 1: says the foreigners will join.
[3:46:45] Speaker 2: You, right but how could how could The israelites do them?
[3:46:49] Speaker 2: Forever how could they, think, well Because israel was a, theocracy,
[3:46:55] Speaker 2: right you know they, were they were there for a.
[3:46:58] Speaker 1: Time is there anything preventing somebody from stoning a woman
[3:47:04] Speaker 1: who doesn't?
[3:47:04] Speaker 2: Bleed, yeah we're.
[3:47:06] Speaker 1: Not i'm not in Civil. Israel we're still we're still
[3:47:09] Speaker 1: talking about. That this is a moral. Precept god, says
[3:47:14] Speaker 1: you must purge the evil from among you if a
[3:47:17] Speaker 1: woman is found to not be a, virgin because she didn't,
[3:47:20] Speaker 1: bleed you need to stone. Her this are we're, Aware.
[3:47:27] Speaker 1: Dave this is not a good, command whether it was
[3:47:30] Speaker 1: temporary or. Permanent nothing you're doing now helps, this because
[3:47:36] Speaker 1: all that means is for about two thousand, Years god
[3:47:39] Speaker 1: said you can kill innocent. Women nothing you're doing here
[3:47:42] Speaker 1: is going to fix.
[3:47:42] Speaker 2: This how? Okay, wait so how is that saying?
[3:47:49] Speaker 1: That if you think That jesus abolished the? Laws according To,
[3:47:54] Speaker 1: paul all you're saying is that for fifteen hundred years
[3:48:01] Speaker 1: or more about, yeah about fifteen hundred, Years god was
[3:48:04] Speaker 1: okay with killing innocent. Women do you Think god was
[3:48:06] Speaker 1: okay with killing innocent? Women does the text say? That? Though,
[3:48:10] Speaker 1: yeah yeah it, does because we know for a fact
[3:48:15] Speaker 1: that ancient women didn't always bleed if they were. Virgins
[3:48:18] Speaker 1: but it says if she doesn't, bleed you can kill.
[3:48:20] Speaker 2: Her let's say that that was given by divine authority
[3:48:28] Speaker 2: and that the let's just say that for the sake of.
[3:48:33] Speaker 2: Argument if there was actually injustice, there it weren't something
[3:48:39] Speaker 2: where you're saying, like, no it's not something where you're, saying, oh,
[3:48:42] Speaker 2: hey that actually.
[3:48:43] Speaker 1: Didn't happen like. That there was people that got they were.
[3:48:45] Speaker 1: Innocent they got.
[3:48:46] Speaker 2: Executed, hey this.
[3:48:47] Speaker 1: Is a tip of the. Iceberg if you can't handle
[3:48:49] Speaker 1: Dude army twenty, two you're not gonna like where we're going.
[3:48:51] Speaker 1: Next i'm fine with.
[3:48:53] Speaker 2: IT i, Mean god can say what he wants to
[3:48:56] Speaker 2: say about Civil israel and have that executing. Judgment they
[3:49:00] Speaker 2: had a prophet among them who was the spokesperson Forgot.
[3:49:03] Speaker 1: Yeah but do you believe that it's okay to execute
[3:49:07] Speaker 1: women on faulty? Evidence, no, okay the god of the book.
[3:49:15] Speaker 1: DOES i don't see that in the. Text oh so
[3:49:19] Speaker 1: we'll try this. AGAIN i don't. Know MAYBE i didn't
[3:49:21] Speaker 1: read it slow. Enough, Okay so in the text it
[3:49:25] Speaker 1: literally says in verse, thirteen suppose a man marries a,
[3:49:30] Speaker 1: woman but after going into, her that means they're you,
[3:49:33] Speaker 1: know if he dislikes her and makes up charge against
[3:49:36] Speaker 1: her by slandering her and, SAYING i married this, woman
[3:49:38] Speaker 1: but WHEN i lay with, HER i did not find
[3:49:39] Speaker 1: evidence of her. Virginity he's saying she didn't. Bleed. Correct, Okay,
[3:49:44] Speaker 1: Okay now if he does, that if he goes to
[3:49:48] Speaker 1: bed with her and she does not, bleed they end
[3:49:51] Speaker 1: up in court and then the father, says, hey here's the.
[3:49:55] Speaker 1: Situation but here is the evidence of my daughter's. Virginity
[3:50:01] Speaker 1: then they will spread out the cloth before the elders
[3:50:04] Speaker 1: of the. Town now the cloth is the, evidence the
[3:50:07] Speaker 1: blood is the. Evidence but less than half of women
[3:50:12] Speaker 1: bleed their first, time less than. Half in, fact if
[3:50:16] Speaker 1: you're a woman right now watching, this put a one
[3:50:18] Speaker 1: in the. Comments if you didn't bleed your first, time
[3:50:21] Speaker 1: you're gonna see a fucking flood of. Ones because not
[3:50:24] Speaker 1: everyone woman bleeds the same. Way in, fact some people
[3:50:28] Speaker 1: don't bleed until there's the, second, third or fourth. Time
[3:50:30] Speaker 1: some of them never bleed their first. Time women aren't a.
[3:50:33] Speaker 1: Monolith there's not one, hymen there's not one. Vagina as
[3:50:38] Speaker 1: it turns, out women are, diverse and ancient people didn't know,
[3:50:41] Speaker 1: this which means if a woman was taken to court
[3:50:45] Speaker 1: because she didn't bleed on a, sheet the sheet is
[3:50:49] Speaker 1: not good evidence of whether or not she's guilty of
[3:50:51] Speaker 1: being a. Virgin you cannot tell if a woman is
[3:50:54] Speaker 1: a virgin based on whether or not she.
[3:50:56] Speaker 2: Bled let's just say it at that time that when that,
[3:51:02] Speaker 2: happened it was definitive.
[3:51:04] Speaker 1: Proof it wasn't though.
[3:51:07] Speaker 2: Now but according to what you're, saying but you weren't.
[3:51:09] Speaker 1: There we have ancient people who wrote about. It the
[3:51:12] Speaker 1: Ancient greeks wrote about. It the Ancient jews eventually figured
[3:51:16] Speaker 1: it out and they wrote about. It we know that
[3:51:18] Speaker 1: ancient women didn't bleed their first. Time they told us
[3:51:22] Speaker 1: stories about how that was the.
[3:51:24] Speaker 2: Case maybe that wasn't true for The australie.
[3:51:26] Speaker 1: Woman so they had special. Hymens yeah, Maybe, okay so
[3:51:31] Speaker 1: they had special hymens Until jesus. Came Then god fucked
[3:51:34] Speaker 1: up their. Hymens i'm not sure what you're saying. There
[3:51:42] Speaker 1: do you Think god changed their hymens When jesus came.
[3:51:45] Speaker 2: Up i'm saying that That god's precepts are.
[3:51:50] Speaker 1: Righteous, well you're killing a woman on faulty evidence is not.
[3:51:59] Speaker 1: Righteous he tells you he's not Righteous exus thirty four to.
[3:52:02] Speaker 1: Seven he declares it to. You he literally tells you
[3:52:06] Speaker 1: that he's not. Righteous he, says visiting the iniquity of
[3:52:09] Speaker 1: the parents upon the children and the children's children into
[3:52:12] Speaker 1: the third and the fourth, generation that's not. Righteousness you
[3:52:15] Speaker 1: don't punish grandchildren for the sins of their.
[3:52:18] Speaker 2: Parents, okay let's read that full, part not just one.
[3:52:23] Speaker 1: Verse keeping steadfast love for a thousand, generations for giving,
[3:52:27] Speaker 1: intiquity iniquity and transgression and. Sin it's almost like it
[3:52:30] Speaker 1: didn't listen for giving iniquity and sin yet by no
[3:52:34] Speaker 1: means clearing the, guilty but visiting the iniquity of the
[3:52:38] Speaker 1: parents upon the.
[3:52:39] Speaker 2: Children, Okay so here's here's where you're arriving out. There
[3:52:46] Speaker 2: it's different than Where i'm arriving. At my, assumption based
[3:52:50] Speaker 2: on The biblical, texts is that all men are sinners
[3:52:55] Speaker 2: and need grace and.
[3:52:56] Speaker 1: FORGIVENESS i need you to address the text for reading.
[3:53:00] Speaker 1: There one of the reasons says That god visits the
[3:53:03] Speaker 1: iniquity of the parents upon the children and the children's
[3:53:06] Speaker 1: children into the third or fourth. Generation and then we've
[3:53:10] Speaker 1: got lots of instances in The bible where he does.
[3:53:12] Speaker 1: That you want to see where he does? That, no
[3:53:15] Speaker 1: because here's the thing that you do know he, does? Right,
[3:53:19] Speaker 1: YEAH i.
[3:53:19] Speaker 2: Do and do you think.
[3:53:21] Speaker 1: It's okay to punish grandchildren for the crimes of their grandparents.
[3:53:24] Speaker 2: If they're if they are guilty of.
[3:53:26] Speaker 1: TRANSGRESSION i didn't ask, THAT i, said do you think
[3:53:29] Speaker 1: it's okay to punish grandchildren for the crimes of their
[3:53:31] Speaker 1: grandparents if they are guilty of trying and ask THAT i,
[3:53:37] Speaker 1: said is it okay to punish grandchildren for the crimes
[3:53:40] Speaker 1: of their, grandparents not for their crimes the crimes of their? Grandparents?
[3:53:44] Speaker 1: Okay but but you have to qualify that. STATEMENT i
[3:53:46] Speaker 1: don't have to qualify. Anything you know What i'm. Saying listen.
[3:53:49] Speaker 1: Carefully is it okay to punish a grandchild for the
[3:53:54] Speaker 1: crime that their grandparents? Committed is that? Okay? No thank,
[3:54:00] Speaker 1: You it's not. Okay, no if they are, innocent innocent
[3:54:04] Speaker 1: of what? Sin? Okay so if if my grandparents committed a,
[3:54:10] Speaker 1: crime it's okay for me to be punished for.
[3:54:12] Speaker 2: It are you a?
[3:54:13] Speaker 1: Sinner everyone is in your? Worldview? Dave, NO i Mean
[3:54:17] Speaker 1: i'm Asking you're you a? Sinner everybody is a sinner
[3:54:21] Speaker 1: in your? Worldview so do you think it's okay in
[3:54:24] Speaker 1: the world we live in for me to go to
[3:54:27] Speaker 1: prison for a crime my grandparents? Committed do you think
[3:54:31] Speaker 1: that's okay.
[3:54:32] Speaker 2: If you are if you are guilty and not innocent.
[3:54:35] Speaker 1: And guilty of what. Sin i'm not guilty of the
[3:54:38] Speaker 1: crime they, Committed. Dave that's the. Problem If i'm not
[3:54:41] Speaker 1: guilty of the crime being. PUNISHED i shouldn't receive the punished.
[3:54:46] Speaker 1: Mint that's what it means to be. Just you get
[3:54:48] Speaker 1: punished for the crimes you do. Make you don't get
[3:54:51] Speaker 1: punished for the crime somebody else. Made that's the definition of. Justice,
[3:54:56] Speaker 1: Okay god not just because he. Punished i'll show you
[3:54:59] Speaker 1: another one he puns. Wish In deuteronomy twenty, three those
[3:55:02] Speaker 1: born of an illicit union shall not come into the
[3:55:05] Speaker 1: assembly of The, lord even to the tenth and Gen i'm,
[3:55:08] Speaker 1: sorry even to the tenth. Generation none of their descendants
[3:55:12] Speaker 1: shall come into the assembly of The, lord which means
[3:55:14] Speaker 1: if your parents had you out of, wedlock you were
[3:55:18] Speaker 1: barred from joining the assembly of The. Lord what did you?
[3:55:20] Speaker 1: Do why are you punished for?
[3:55:22] Speaker 2: That Because god can do whatever he wants for it
[3:55:27] Speaker 2: with he's not.
[3:55:28] Speaker 1: JUST i didn't ask you if you know what he wants.
[3:55:31] Speaker 1: That we're talking about the definition of, Justice, dave we're
[3:55:35] Speaker 1: talking about. Justice Your god is not a god of.
[3:55:37] Speaker 2: Justice but hold, on hold on one, second, okay let
[3:55:40] Speaker 2: me let me let me say. Something being let Into
[3:55:43] Speaker 2: god's temple is a. Grace he's.
[3:55:47] Speaker 1: Not But, david listen to the. Words i'm not asking
[3:55:55] Speaker 1: you if it's. Grace i'm asking you why he's punishing
[3:55:59] Speaker 1: people for things they didn't. Do the child who's not
[3:56:04] Speaker 1: allowed into the assembly of The. Lord it's not just a,
[3:56:07] Speaker 1: temple it's the entire. Assembly. Right you can't do, festivals
[3:56:11] Speaker 1: you can't do any ritual, sacrifices none of. It you
[3:56:13] Speaker 1: can't do. It you're not allowed in the. Assembly. Right
[3:56:17] Speaker 1: this happens because what your parents or grandparents or great grandparents.
[3:56:21] Speaker 1: Did this is not a punishment for what you. Did
[3:56:24] Speaker 1: it's a punishment for what your ancestors. Did do you
[3:56:31] Speaker 1: see the problem with punishing great grandchildren for the crimes
[3:56:35] Speaker 1: of their. ANCESTORS i think he lost his. Reception he's coming. Back,
[3:56:40] Speaker 1: Hold i'm welcome. Back can you hear? Me, Hey, poulla
[3:56:54] Speaker 1: good to see, you, Buddy. Dave can you hear, me budd.
[3:57:01] Speaker 2: He, Loope?
[3:57:03] Speaker 1: Dave got? ME i can hear? You sorry about?
[3:57:07] Speaker 2: That?
[3:57:08] Speaker 1: Right so, Again god is willing to punish people for
[3:57:14] Speaker 1: the crimes of others all the. Time you want to
[3:57:17] Speaker 1: see like the most egregious example of, This this is
[3:57:20] Speaker 1: maybe my favorite example ever Of god acting. Unjustly it's
[3:57:24] Speaker 1: in Second samuel. TWELVE i don't know WHY i type twenty.
[3:57:29] Speaker 1: Four so you know About david and The bathsheba, incident don't? You? Yes?
[3:57:35] Speaker 1: Okay and When david had your, ride The hittite killed
[3:57:39] Speaker 1: because he knocked up his. Wife there was two punishments
[3:57:43] Speaker 1: that were handed. Down do you remember either of the.
[3:57:45] Speaker 1: Punishments his child, Died, yeah, exactly his child. Died he
[3:57:52] Speaker 1: made his child sick for a full, week then his child.
[3:57:54] Speaker 1: Died the second punishment was the wives get. Raped to
[3:57:59] Speaker 1: thus say it The, LORD i will raise up trouble
[3:58:01] Speaker 1: against you from within your own, house AND i will
[3:58:03] Speaker 1: take your wives before your eyes and give them to your.
[3:58:05] Speaker 1: Neighbor he shall lie with your wives in broad. Daylight
[3:58:09] Speaker 1: you did it, secretly BUT i will do this thing
[3:58:10] Speaker 1: before All israel in broad. Daylight and then you fast
[3:58:14] Speaker 1: forward to chapter. Sixteen david goes on the run because
[3:58:17] Speaker 1: his Son absalom raises up a coup and brings a
[3:58:21] Speaker 1: military with, him tases them out of the, palace and
[3:58:25] Speaker 1: then he takes the advice of a hit the fell
[3:58:28] Speaker 1: and he, says, listen in order to prove that you're in, charge,
[3:58:31] Speaker 1: now you need to Take david's, wives bringing up to
[3:58:34] Speaker 1: the top of palace and sleep with them in front of,
[3:58:36] Speaker 1: everybody to show that you're in charge. Now so he.
[3:58:39] Speaker 1: Does he goes into the, palace takes ten Of david's
[3:58:42] Speaker 1: wives up to the top of the palace and sleeps with.
[3:58:44] Speaker 1: Them do you think those wives deserve to take the
[3:58:48] Speaker 1: punishment For? David?
[3:58:49] Speaker 2: SIN i, mean here's the jump you're making THAT i don't.
[3:58:55] Speaker 2: Buy is that Because god allowed? It does that mean
[3:58:58] Speaker 2: he authored.
[3:58:59] Speaker 1: It caused. It we'll try this again verse. ELEVEN i
[3:59:02] Speaker 1: will raise up trouble against you from within in you own.
[3:59:06] Speaker 1: House he's Saying i'm doing. It he's taking the credit for.
[3:59:11] Speaker 2: It he's allowing.
[3:59:13] Speaker 1: It, no, no he, Says i'm doing. It, Okay so
[3:59:16] Speaker 1: how how is he doing? It he's instigating it the
[3:59:20] Speaker 1: same way he Instigated David in chapter twenty, four he,
[3:59:23] Speaker 1: SAYS i will take your, wives and just like he
[3:59:27] Speaker 1: does all the, time he's influencing people to do. Things
[3:59:30] Speaker 1: he influences people to do shit all the time in The.
[3:59:32] Speaker 1: Bible this is not. New god's taking credit for. It
[3:59:39] Speaker 1: he literally, SAYS i will do this thing before All.
[3:59:41] Speaker 1: ISRAEL i will do. It he's taken the credit for,
[3:59:44] Speaker 1: me calling got a.
[3:59:45] Speaker 2: Liar, No i'm saying something, different which is That god
[3:59:49] Speaker 2: permissing something is different than him doing it.
[3:59:52] Speaker 1: Himself we'll try. This does he Say i'm doing? IT i,
[3:59:59] Speaker 1: mean can you not see the? Screen do you not
[4:00:01] Speaker 1: see the verse?
[4:00:02] Speaker 2: From you KNOW i do from the eyes Of god
[4:00:04] Speaker 2: or from the eyes of.
[4:00:05] Speaker 1: Man you know the words Of. God god's own words
[4:00:12] Speaker 1: IS i will do.
[4:00:14] Speaker 2: It and What i'm saying is that did men rape those?
[4:00:20] Speaker 1: WOMEN a man rape those women Because god caused it to.
[4:00:26] Speaker 2: Happen and when you Say god caused it to, happen
[4:00:31] Speaker 2: how do you mean?
[4:00:32] Speaker 1: That he obviously hardened the heart Of absalom the same
[4:00:36] Speaker 1: way he hardened the heart Of, pharaoh the same way
[4:00:38] Speaker 1: he hardened the heart of The, canaanites same way he
[4:00:41] Speaker 1: hardened all kinds of people's. Hearts he hardens people's hearts
[4:00:44] Speaker 1: all the time to get them to do horrific.
[4:00:45] Speaker 2: Stuff and my belief on this text is that those
[4:00:52] Speaker 2: men were the ones, sinning Not.
[4:00:54] Speaker 1: God god caused. It we'll try to think is it
[4:00:59] Speaker 1: a yes or no? Question Does god take credit for
[4:01:02] Speaker 1: what happened.
[4:01:06] Speaker 2: In the?
[4:01:07] Speaker 1: Passage not in your? Mind in the passage you're a.
[4:01:10] Speaker 1: Reading Does god take credit for?
[4:01:12] Speaker 2: IT i, MEAN i don't see that, word so you're
[4:01:15] Speaker 2: adding that a little.
[4:01:16] Speaker 1: Bit but uhh, Okay i'll read it for the fifteenth.
[4:01:19] Speaker 1: Time he literally SAYS i will take your. Wives when
[4:01:26] Speaker 1: someone SAYS i will take your, wives what does that mean.
[4:01:31] Speaker 2: He will take your?
[4:01:31] Speaker 1: Wives it means he's the one causing, it thank. You
[4:01:33] Speaker 1: when he SAYS i will do this, thing what does.
[4:01:36] Speaker 2: That, mean hey will do this?
[4:01:38] Speaker 1: Thing. Motherfucker that's. Right that means he's doing the. Thing, Listen,
[4:01:43] Speaker 1: dave you're way too young and way too smart to
[4:01:46] Speaker 1: not know how first person pronouns.
[4:01:47] Speaker 2: Work see. That the PROBLEM i have with this, view,
[4:01:53] Speaker 2: though is you're not taking into account that men actually
[4:01:57] Speaker 2: did those.
[4:01:58] Speaker 1: THINGS i, know Because god influence them to do, it
[4:02:02] Speaker 1: the same way he Influenced pharaoh to not let the people,
[4:02:05] Speaker 1: go the same way he influenced The canaanites in The
[4:02:08] Speaker 1: book Of joshua to make war Against, israel the same
[4:02:11] Speaker 1: way he Influenced King saw to do things That King saw,
[4:02:16] Speaker 1: did the same way he Influenced dog to kill the
[4:02:18] Speaker 1: priest set. Up god does this all the.
[4:02:20] Speaker 2: Time and my view of that is that based on
[4:02:25] Speaker 2: WHAT i AND i, understand WHAT i agree, with what
[4:02:28] Speaker 2: you're Saying god did hard in the heart Of.
[4:02:30] Speaker 1: Pharaoh, yes he, did he hard in the heart Of.
[4:02:32] Speaker 1: Abslom does it say that in the? Text it says
[4:02:36] Speaker 1: he's causing it to. Happen how do you think he caused?
[4:02:39] Speaker 2: IT i, MEAN i don't.
[4:02:40] Speaker 1: Know you realize this only works if this is a
[4:02:43] Speaker 1: punishment By. God just so you're aware what we're hold, On.
[4:02:47] Speaker 1: Dave what we're reading is a punishment For. David this
[4:02:53] Speaker 1: Is god said you did a bad here's the, punishment,
[4:02:57] Speaker 1: right and the Punishment god takes credit. For he, Says
[4:03:00] Speaker 1: i'm doing the. Thing and now you're up here lying
[4:03:05] Speaker 1: to my, Face. Dave so we started this conversation right
[4:03:09] Speaker 1: with this crazy presupposition that whatever is in this book
[4:03:15] Speaker 1: just has to be, True AND i, SAID i don't
[4:03:17] Speaker 1: think that is the, case, Right and now you're demonstrating
[4:03:20] Speaker 1: why religion rots your brain because now we're reading a
[4:03:23] Speaker 1: passage Where god clearly Says i'm doing, something and you're, say,
[4:03:26] Speaker 1: No god's not doing. It he says he's doing, it.
[4:03:30] Speaker 2: And i'm, saying there's nuances so that that statement and
[4:03:34] Speaker 2: here's WHAT i mean by. That so he, SAYS i
[4:03:35] Speaker 2: will take your wives before your eyes and give them
[4:03:38] Speaker 2: to your. Neighbor, so for, example could that be that
[4:03:42] Speaker 2: those wives were being restrained from sinning and that they
[4:03:46] Speaker 2: decided to go committed.
[4:03:47] Speaker 1: Ault they did. Not they were taken By absalom when
[4:03:50] Speaker 1: he raided the. Palace do you think ten Of david's
[4:03:55] Speaker 1: wives are dumb enough to sleep with their own step
[4:03:58] Speaker 1: son literally on top of the palace in front of All,
[4:04:02] Speaker 1: israel knowing that the punishment for that is that they
[4:04:04] Speaker 1: would be. Stoned do you think they're that? Dumb this is,
[4:04:07] Speaker 1: like this is like the oh what were they? Wearing
[4:04:10] Speaker 1: they had it, coming they enjoyed, It they wanted to be.
[4:04:13] Speaker 2: Raped i'm not saying, That i'm, saying, like how we arrived?
[4:04:17] Speaker 2: Here how do we even get?
[4:04:19] Speaker 1: Here we got here by demonstrating that Your god is
[4:04:24] Speaker 1: not a god of. Justice Your god allows and causes
[4:04:28] Speaker 1: women to be raped for the crimes of their.
[4:04:30] Speaker 2: Husband but you, know, see here's What i'm trying to
[4:04:35] Speaker 2: understand from you, know is we live in a society
[4:04:38] Speaker 2: and you're saying words like. Justice but if morals are
[4:04:42] Speaker 2: all relative to, you and you believe that rape is
[4:04:45] Speaker 2: wrong for, you but it's not objectively, wrong then how
[4:04:48] Speaker 2: can we even have an idea and say, that, hey there's.
[4:04:52] Speaker 1: Right he can't help. Himself they really. Have they have
[4:04:57] Speaker 1: no way of dealing with the. Text they have to
[4:04:59] Speaker 1: pivot to, bad presuppositional moralist. Arguments so, Again, dave the
[4:05:04] Speaker 1: word justice is not. Subjective it has an actual meaning
[4:05:10] Speaker 1: and what it. Means the meaning of justice is that
[4:05:14] Speaker 1: you get what you. Deserve, right you don't deserve to
[4:05:18] Speaker 1: be raped if you haven't committed the. Sin the sin
[4:05:22] Speaker 1: was committed By. David so if anyone gets punished other Than,
[4:05:26] Speaker 1: david that is not. Justice this has nothing to do
[4:05:29] Speaker 1: with me trying to defend the position that rape is,
[4:05:33] Speaker 1: bad ALTHOUGH i. Could that has nothing to do with.
[4:05:35] Speaker 1: That this is about the definition of just and Your
[4:05:38] Speaker 1: god is not Just god because he makes laws and,
[4:05:45] Speaker 1: morals cannot do. Evil he just did. It it is.
[4:05:49] Speaker 1: Evil it is always. Evil it is always evil to
[4:05:53] Speaker 1: punish somebody for somebody else's. Crime always.
[4:05:59] Speaker 2: You're saying it like they are not guilty.
[4:06:02] Speaker 1: Guilty of what? Sin, Okay so any woman on the
[4:06:07] Speaker 1: face of the, planet because she's not, sinless deserve to be.
[4:06:09] Speaker 2: RAPED i didn't say.
[4:06:11] Speaker 1: That did these women deserve to be? Raped what What
[4:06:14] Speaker 1: i'm saying.
[4:06:15] Speaker 2: That i'm saying That god can.
[4:06:17] Speaker 1: Judge this is, Why, david this religion has rotted your.
[4:06:20] Speaker 1: Brain what do you think women deserve to be raped
[4:06:24] Speaker 1: because their husband sinned and they're not? PERFECT i didn't say.
[4:06:27] Speaker 2: That.
[4:06:28] Speaker 1: Okay did they deserve to be raped or? Not If
[4:06:32] Speaker 1: god says, something did they do something deserving of the.
[4:06:36] Speaker 1: CRIME i don't know what they.
[4:06:37] Speaker 2: DID i don't know what they.
[4:06:39] Speaker 1: Did. Okay does the text tell you why they're getting?
[4:06:41] Speaker 2: Raped it's saying Why god is doing this?
[4:06:45] Speaker 1: Thing does the text tell you why they're getting?
[4:06:47] Speaker 2: Raped, SEE i can't go to that conclusion with you.
[4:06:53] Speaker 1: Though you can't. It yes or, No? David does the
[4:06:56] Speaker 1: text tell you why they're getting? Raped not fully? Enough,
[4:07:02] Speaker 1: oh it doesn't tell you? Why, No so you're just gonna,
[4:07:06] Speaker 1: Okay i'm gonna take a deep, Breath. David i'm gonna
[4:07:11] Speaker 1: give you one last chance to not be a lying dirt.
[4:07:13] Speaker 1: Bag this is the last chance you. Get the text
[4:07:17] Speaker 1: does tell you why they're being. Raped it's a. Punishment
[4:07:21] Speaker 1: he literally, Says, now, therefore the word of The lord
[4:07:23] Speaker 1: shall never depart from your, house for you have despised
[4:07:26] Speaker 1: me and taken the wife Of uriah The hittite to
[4:07:29] Speaker 1: be your. Wife this is the punishment for what he
[4:07:32] Speaker 1: did to Your. Ayah Thus saith The, LORD i will
[4:07:35] Speaker 1: raise up trouble against you from within your, house AND
[4:07:37] Speaker 1: i will take your wives before your eyes and give
[4:07:39] Speaker 1: them to your, neighbor and he shall lie with your
[4:07:41] Speaker 1: wives in broad. Daylight for you did it, secretly BUT
[4:07:43] Speaker 1: i will do this thing before All israel in broad.
[4:07:46] Speaker 1: Daylight he tells you why it's. Happening it's because of
[4:07:49] Speaker 1: What david. Did it's a punishment To david for What david,
[4:07:52] Speaker 1: did and he takes credit for doing. It and you're
[4:07:55] Speaker 1: getting up here and, saying GOLLY, G i don't know
[4:07:57] Speaker 1: why it. Happened GOLLY. G i guess they did something
[4:07:59] Speaker 1: to deserve. It, david this has rotted your. Brain you've
[4:08:02] Speaker 1: turned your brain, off and now you lack critical thinking
[4:08:05] Speaker 1: skills because this religion has poisoned your.
[4:08:08] Speaker 2: MIND i know that this is getting, heated BUT i
[4:08:16] Speaker 2: just want you to hear me say. THIS i DON'T
[4:08:19] Speaker 2: i don't want this to devolve into a bad. Conversation
[4:08:22] Speaker 2: i've been enjoying the conversation with.
[4:08:24] Speaker 1: YOU i was having a good conversation until you started
[4:08:27] Speaker 1: lying to my, Face, David, okay so what DID i lie?
[4:08:30] Speaker 1: About you told me on multiple occasions That god did
[4:08:34] Speaker 1: not do the thing that he clearly said he.
[4:08:36] Speaker 2: Did i'm saying something different than. That i'm saying that it's.
[4:08:41] Speaker 1: NUANCED i know there's. Nuanced we know humans did. It
[4:08:46] Speaker 1: we know humans did. It i'm Saying god caused it to,
[4:08:49] Speaker 1: happen because he Said he's causing it to happen the
[4:08:52] Speaker 1: same way he caused The isrights to go to war
[4:08:54] Speaker 1: with The Canaanites joshua eleven, Twenty for it was The
[4:08:57] Speaker 1: lord's doing to harden their hearts so that they would
[4:09:01] Speaker 1: come Against israel in battle in order that they might
[4:09:04] Speaker 1: be utterly. Destroyed god influences people all the time to do.
[4:09:09] Speaker 1: Stuff in this, case he clearly Influenced absalom to do
[4:09:14] Speaker 1: the thing he Needed absalom to. Do that's why it's a. Punishment, Okay,
[4:09:21] Speaker 1: Yeah so this is the, Moment, david where you get
[4:09:25] Speaker 1: to BE i don't know how old you. Are this
[4:09:26] Speaker 1: is the moment where you get to have an adult
[4:09:29] Speaker 1: epiphany and, say, yes this is one thing that means
[4:09:32] Speaker 1: what it says and it's not. Pretty You're god's a, Monster.
[4:09:39] Speaker 1: David that's not. True it's one hundred.
[4:09:43] Speaker 2: Fact that's definitely not.
[4:09:44] Speaker 1: True god's a vicious monster if he causes women to
[4:09:47] Speaker 1: be raped for the crimes of the.
[4:09:49] Speaker 2: HUSBAND i DON'T i don't know what would like. That
[4:09:57] Speaker 2: that's a very horrible, statement but.
[4:10:00] Speaker 1: It's a true. Statement there's no reality in which somebody
[4:10:04] Speaker 1: rapes somebody for crimes that somebody else committed and they're
[4:10:07] Speaker 1: not a. Monster that's the reality you're living in right,
[4:10:10] Speaker 1: now and you're unwilling to accept.
[4:10:12] Speaker 2: It the thing, Is i'm not Saying god is here
[4:10:17] Speaker 2: in this. Example Did god soberly allow for that thing to?
[4:10:22] Speaker 1: Happen, yes he caused. It, Okay, okay let's just, Say
[4:10:26] Speaker 1: i'll use your.
[4:10:27] Speaker 2: Words it doesn't say that, exactly BUT i will get those. Words,
[4:10:32] Speaker 2: Okay god sovereignly.
[4:10:35] Speaker 1: He said. That he, SAYS i will take your, WIVES
[4:10:39] Speaker 1: i will do this. Thing If god says something is
[4:10:43] Speaker 1: going to happen and then he Says i'm doing the,
[4:10:45] Speaker 1: thing that means he's the cause of. It that's what that. Means.
[4:10:53] Speaker 1: DAVID i want this to be a good, conversation but
[4:10:56] Speaker 1: it can't be until you stop lying to my.
[4:10:57] Speaker 2: Face CAN i just, OKAY i want to at least
[4:11:01] Speaker 2: get to a point of agreement on. This god sovereignly
[4:11:05] Speaker 2: did do this.
[4:11:06] Speaker 1: Thing yes he.
[4:11:07] Speaker 2: Did, also men were free agents in.
[4:11:10] Speaker 1: This they were not free, agents just like The amalekites
[4:11:13] Speaker 1: and the other people were influenced By. God it Says
[4:11:17] Speaker 1: god hardened their heart so that they would go out in.
[4:11:20] Speaker 1: Battle god is causing people to do. Things you have
[4:11:30] Speaker 1: to take ownership for what this text. Does they the
[4:11:33] Speaker 1: longer you beat around the, bush the longer you lie
[4:11:36] Speaker 1: to our, faces the sillier it. Looks there are like
[4:11:39] Speaker 1: two thousand people are more watching right. Now you're coping
[4:11:42] Speaker 1: poorly with the text that you know is. Horrible that is.
[4:11:46] Speaker 2: Fine i'm trying to go as far AS i possibly
[4:11:49] Speaker 2: can here and Say god was sovereign in, this and
[4:11:52] Speaker 2: also there were free agents involved in. This, yes Was
[4:11:57] Speaker 2: god a mover in, this a sovereign. Mover, yes he
[4:12:01] Speaker 2: was a sovereign.
[4:12:02] Speaker 1: Mover but it can't be a free will if he causes.
[4:12:05] Speaker 2: It, Okay so because you were born and, raised do
[4:12:10] Speaker 2: you do you have free?
[4:12:11] Speaker 1: Will, now this can't be free will if he's causing.
[4:12:14] Speaker 1: It he's acting against somebody's free will to make it.
[4:12:18] Speaker 1: Happen that's why it's a. Punishment If david never did
[4:12:21] Speaker 1: the same With, bashiba this wouldn't have. Happened you, know
[4:12:31] Speaker 1: that's the. Case If david did Not If david did
[4:12:34] Speaker 1: not sleep With, bashi but if he did not have
[4:12:36] Speaker 1: Your riodah, killed this event would not have. Happened because
[4:12:40] Speaker 1: this is a punishment for what he. Did and if
[4:12:42] Speaker 1: it's a punishment for the thing he, did that Means
[4:12:45] Speaker 1: god is causing it to. Happen that's why it's a. Punishment, LIKE.
[4:12:53] Speaker 2: I get what you're saying, here but Because god is
[4:12:56] Speaker 2: sovereign and outside time and, space you're.
[4:13:00] Speaker 1: Trying so hard day they the more you fight, this
[4:13:03] Speaker 1: the sillier it.
[4:13:04] Speaker 2: LOOKS i, MEAN i feel Like i'm conceding your point.
[4:13:07] Speaker 2: Here god is sovereign in.
[4:13:08] Speaker 1: This, Yes he's causing it to, happen.
[4:13:11] Speaker 2: But there is men involved in.
[4:13:12] Speaker 1: This oh my life just got flagged for harassment on.
[4:13:16] Speaker 1: TikTok i get flagged every TikTok. Stream it doesn't matter what.
[4:13:22] Speaker 1: Happens The christians get so up in arms on TikTok
[4:13:25] Speaker 1: that they report me UNTIL i get. Flagged that's WHY
[4:13:27] Speaker 1: i stream on on YouTube so much now BECAUSE i
[4:13:30] Speaker 1: can't keep an active account on.
[4:13:32] Speaker 2: TikTok, WELL i want to go to at least to
[4:13:38] Speaker 2: a spot OF i know what you're saying, here AND
[4:13:43] Speaker 2: i see what you're, saying AND i do concede the
[4:13:47] Speaker 2: point That god is sovereign in, this BUT i do
[4:13:49] Speaker 2: NOT i will not go so far as to say
[4:13:51] Speaker 2: that those people did not sin and have pulpability of
[4:13:55] Speaker 2: their own.
[4:13:56] Speaker 1: Sin the women both, Sides but the text doesn't say.
[4:13:59] Speaker 1: That the text says that this is happening because of
[4:14:02] Speaker 1: What david.
[4:14:02] Speaker 2: Did, Right but so.
[4:14:05] Speaker 1: The text line is.
[4:14:06] Speaker 2: Here the premise here is that they are. Innocent it
[4:14:09] Speaker 2: was what you're.
[4:14:09] Speaker 1: Saying they're innocent of the crime That david. Committed, remember
[4:14:13] Speaker 1: no one's saying they're. Sinless we're saying they're innocent of
[4:14:17] Speaker 1: the crime they're being punished.
[4:14:18] Speaker 2: For And i'm saying that because they are, Sinful god
[4:14:22] Speaker 2: can do whatever he. Wants.
[4:14:24] Speaker 1: Okay that means Your god doesn't have. Justice that means
[4:14:27] Speaker 1: in your, worldview justice is. ARBITRARY i, Mean god can
[4:14:31] Speaker 1: punish anybody at any time for anyone else's, sin no
[4:14:34] Speaker 1: matter how severe or how unsevere it. Is that's not.
[4:14:37] Speaker 1: Justice justice means the punishment is proportional to the. Crime
[4:14:41] Speaker 1: justice means you get punished for the crime you, committed
[4:14:44] Speaker 1: not the crime somebody else. Committed just because you're all
[4:14:47] Speaker 1: powerful doesn't mean you can make up new rules of.
[4:14:50] Speaker 2: Justice AND i would agree with, that But i'm going
[4:14:55] Speaker 2: so far as it's just say, That, hey these people,
[4:14:59] Speaker 2: involved no matter who you talk about in human, history
[4:15:03] Speaker 2: regardless of is this exact text or, not are sinful
[4:15:08] Speaker 2: and our deserving Of god's.
[4:15:09] Speaker 1: Judgment, well no one. Cares so Was King, david and
[4:15:12] Speaker 1: he didn't Kill King. David he didn't Rape King. David
[4:15:15] Speaker 1: if this was a fair, Punishment david should have been,
[4:15:19] Speaker 1: raped not his.
[4:15:19] Speaker 2: Wives according to who.
[4:15:24] Speaker 1: According to the definition of. Justice, again the definition of
[4:15:29] Speaker 1: just means the person gets punishment for the things they, did.
[4:15:35] Speaker 2: Right And i'm saying what they did was that everyone
[4:15:38] Speaker 2: is guilty of.
[4:15:39] Speaker 1: Sin it doesn't. Matter it does. Matter do you think
[4:15:42] Speaker 1: do you think a thirteen year old girl who has
[4:15:45] Speaker 1: only committed one, sin the sin of lying to her
[4:15:47] Speaker 1: mom about chewing gum in, class deserved to be raped
[4:15:50] Speaker 1: Like david's.
[4:15:50] Speaker 2: WIVES i believe That god is so, holy but as.
[4:15:57] Speaker 1: He, answered no, question she's a, sinner she's committed a,
[4:15:59] Speaker 1: Sin does that means she's deserving of?
[4:16:01] Speaker 2: RAPE i didn't say.
[4:16:03] Speaker 1: That so what sin does a person have to commit
[4:16:06] Speaker 1: Before god's willing to let you get?
[4:16:07] Speaker 2: RAPED i don't know. That you know. THAT i don't know.
[4:16:10] Speaker 1: That so you're you're the one saying that people aren't,
[4:16:12] Speaker 1: perfect therefore they should be. RAPED i want to know
[4:16:15] Speaker 1: what sins does the person have to commit Before god
[4:16:17] Speaker 1: has them? Raped what sin does it have to? Be?
[4:16:20] Speaker 2: Okay but but hold, ON i didn't say you put
[4:16:22] Speaker 2: words When i'm off. THERE i didn't say.
[4:16:24] Speaker 1: That you're saying it's okay that because they were not.
[4:16:28] Speaker 1: Sinless that's what you, Said, david listen to your.
[4:16:30] Speaker 2: Words, No i'll let me be. Clear WHAT i believe
[4:16:35] Speaker 2: is that all men are, sinners deserving Of god's justice
[4:16:39] Speaker 2: and wrath and deserve to go to. Hell, yeah Except
[4:16:42] Speaker 2: god gives.
[4:16:43] Speaker 1: Grace and at what part does that include the?
[4:16:45] Speaker 2: Raping at the part Where god can do whatever he wants?
[4:16:53] Speaker 1: TO i didn't ask. It what sin DO i need
[4:16:55] Speaker 1: to commit Before god is willing to rape?
[4:16:57] Speaker 2: Me there is there's no answer to.
[4:17:00] Speaker 1: THAT i don't is this? Anything is this? Arbitrary?
[4:17:03] Speaker 2: No it's not, arbitrary it's it's That god Is this is.
[4:17:07] Speaker 1: IMPORTANT i need to, Know. DAVE i need to know
[4:17:09] Speaker 1: what SIN i can and cannot commit SO i don't
[4:17:11] Speaker 1: get raped by, yahweh what sin DO i have to
[4:17:14] Speaker 1: be worried about that you should be worried. About hell,
[4:17:17] Speaker 1: WELL i am worried about getting raped because he had
[4:17:19] Speaker 1: ten Of david's wives. Raped how do you not see this, Problem?
[4:17:22] Speaker 1: Dave do you have? Sisters do you have a?
[4:17:24] Speaker 2: Mother i'm more worried about people's.
[4:17:30] Speaker 1: Eternity i'm worried about your mother right, Now, dave you
[4:17:33] Speaker 1: think it's okay For god to have her? Raped, no
[4:17:36] Speaker 1: that's Not that's not WHAT i. Said is your mother?
[4:17:39] Speaker 1: Sinless is my mother?
[4:17:42] Speaker 2: Sinless you know the answer to.
[4:17:44] Speaker 1: That he's. Not so in your, worldview it's okay If
[4:17:47] Speaker 1: god has your mother raped because she's not. Sinless, well
[4:17:54] Speaker 1: this is the bed you, lay you, made you have
[4:17:56] Speaker 1: to lie in it. Now you said it's okay for
[4:17:58] Speaker 1: these women to be raped because they're not. Sinless by
[4:18:00] Speaker 1: the same, consequence it's okay for your mother to be raped.
[4:18:03] Speaker 2: Because you're applying this tax outside of, This.
[4:18:08] Speaker 1: I'm Not i'm using your. Logic you've walked into this.
[4:18:12] Speaker 1: Trap you built your own, trap and you walked into.
[4:18:16] Speaker 1: It you're, saying it's okay That god had these women
[4:18:18] Speaker 1: raped because they're not completely free of, sin which by,
[4:18:21] Speaker 1: extension means any woman can be raped because they're not
[4:18:24] Speaker 1: free of. Sin so if your dad cheats on your
[4:18:27] Speaker 1: mom and commits, adultery can Can god have your mother
[4:18:31] Speaker 1: raped for your dad's?
[4:18:32] Speaker 2: Sin god can do whatever he wants to, Do yes or, No,
[4:18:37] Speaker 2: DAVE i just said, that would.
[4:18:39] Speaker 1: It be just if your dad committed? Adultery would it
[4:18:42] Speaker 1: be just For god to punish your dad by having
[4:18:45] Speaker 1: your mother?
[4:18:46] Speaker 2: Raped god, KNOWS i don't.
[4:18:47] Speaker 1: Know i'm asking. YOU i want to know what you
[4:18:50] Speaker 1: think because you're the one making this case right, Now
[4:18:52] Speaker 1: so answer, honestly according to the worldview you're painting right,
[4:18:55] Speaker 1: now would it be just For god to have your
[4:18:58] Speaker 1: mother raped if your dad committed? Adultery there's one lawgiver
[4:19:02] Speaker 1: who's able to save. You Can't he can't do? It all? Right, Well,
[4:19:04] Speaker 1: DAVE i think we reached the logical extension of the.
[4:19:07] Speaker 1: Conversation you've demonstrated that religion has completely ruined your. Brain
[4:19:11] Speaker 1: you're probably a smart young man in real. Life i'm
[4:19:14] Speaker 1: sad that religion has done this to, you and that's
[4:19:16] Speaker 1: why we do these live. Streams but coming back some other,
[4:19:18] Speaker 1: TIME i think we've we've gone on quite a, bit
[4:19:21] Speaker 1: And i'm sure we'll have a good conversation on another.
[4:19:23] Speaker 2: TOPIC i appreciate the call, man AND i hope you
[4:19:26] Speaker 2: have a buss.
[4:19:26] Speaker 1: Set religion rots your. Brain we just seen. IT i don't.
[4:19:37] Speaker 1: KNOW i don't know what else needs to be. Said
[4:19:42] Speaker 1: when you get to a point that it's okay for
[4:19:46] Speaker 1: this behavior to, happen there's NOTHING i could do for. You,
[4:19:50] Speaker 1: Okay so, guys we got a shit ton of super
[4:19:53] Speaker 1: chests during that. Conversation i'm going to read all the
[4:19:55] Speaker 1: superchestes and then it's. Late i'm going to go to
[4:19:57] Speaker 1: bed by midnight, ish maybe. Midnight thank you for Being
[4:20:02] Speaker 1: i've Been we've been here like all day since like five.
[4:20:04] Speaker 1: O'clock thank you so much for being. Here BUT i
[4:20:08] Speaker 1: am going to read through the superchats. NOW i really
[4:20:10] Speaker 1: appreciate everybody Astro, nova thank you for the tiny diny.
[4:20:13] Speaker 1: FLOTILLA i appreciate that we've got a super chat from
[4:20:16] Speaker 1: our Friend Tarik's psalm twenty two, sixteen past tense Or
[4:20:20] Speaker 1: hebrew prophetic? Perfect great, question, TARIK i, Reject, OKAY i
[4:20:27] Speaker 1: Reject hebrew prophetic. PERFECT i have never seen an example of,
[4:20:32] Speaker 1: this And i've, Checked i've talked to, People i've looked
[4:20:36] Speaker 1: at the actual. Resources i've never seen. IT i don't
[4:20:38] Speaker 1: think it actually. Exists So i'm never going to admit
[4:20:42] Speaker 1: it exist until someone can actually show me that it.
[4:20:44] Speaker 1: Exists the closest you'll ever get Is isaiah fourteen And
[4:20:48] Speaker 1: ezekiel twenty. Eight and he explicitly tells you that this
[4:20:52] Speaker 1: is something you're supposed to do in the, future and
[4:20:55] Speaker 1: you're going to read this about something that already happened
[4:20:59] Speaker 1: in the, past which means, yes of course it's going
[4:21:02] Speaker 1: to be in the past. Tense he's personifying the future
[4:21:05] Speaker 1: about past. Events that's it as close as you'll ever.
[4:21:08] Speaker 1: Get chance, Says but it doesn't say the word. Grape,
[4:21:11] Speaker 1: funny HOW i don't see the word consent, either slaves.
[4:21:14] Speaker 1: Bag that's one hundred percent. Right just because it doesn't
[4:21:18] Speaker 1: say grape doesn't mean there's consent and cognitive distances Jack hale's.
[4:21:23] Speaker 1: Disgusting unfortunately that seems to have been the case And jennifer,
[4:21:28] Speaker 1: says this guest is such an inceel grape. Guy, yeah,
[4:21:32] Speaker 1: listen when you're up when you're up here defending, grape
[4:21:36] Speaker 1: that's the end of the line for, you, Friend you're.
[4:21:37] Speaker 1: Done your brain's. Toast P pilpie, says When jack runs
[4:21:40] Speaker 1: out of crazy rationalizations for, grape he'll resort to, saying
[4:21:44] Speaker 1: but she enjoyed. It he almost, Did he almost got
[4:21:47] Speaker 1: to The he tried for a half a second to
[4:21:49] Speaker 1: say they wanted. It he really. Did he wanted to
[4:21:52] Speaker 1: go down that. Road how do you know they didn't like?
[4:21:54] Speaker 1: It how do you know that all of ten Of
[4:21:56] Speaker 1: david's wives didn't have grape fantasies about their steps. Children that's, Crazy,
[4:22:02] Speaker 1: chip thank you for the, supertest Says. Jake your beliefs
[4:22:04] Speaker 1: and justifications are. Revolting stop ignoring what is staring in your. Face,
[4:22:09] Speaker 1: yeah and better, yet don't lie to.
[4:22:11] Speaker 13: Me.
[4:22:12] Speaker 1: Listen you can twist yourself in. Pretzels you can lie to.
[4:22:15] Speaker 1: Yourself you can even lie to your. Mother you cannot
[4:22:17] Speaker 1: lie to. ME i will not let you lie to my.
[4:22:19] Speaker 1: Face And globin, Says, hi justin keep doing The lord's. Work,
[4:22:25] Speaker 1: HEY i appreciate. That Lord Doug Hail doug And, jeane
[4:22:29] Speaker 1: thank you for the, supertest, Says, Oh jack seems, nice
[4:22:32] Speaker 1: and there's the grape. Apologetics please wake up to the
[4:22:35] Speaker 1: horror of what you're saying and reclaim your. Humanity that's
[4:22:39] Speaker 1: the thing that's the problem when talking To, christians no
[4:22:41] Speaker 1: matter how nice they, Are, eventually, eventually if we talk long,
[4:22:46] Speaker 1: enough we will end up on grape. Apologetics that's why
[4:22:51] Speaker 1: doesn't matter how nice you, Are religion rots your. Brain robin,
[4:22:56] Speaker 1: says they seem so, nice and you did take it
[4:23:00] Speaker 1: just below the surface and it gets very, dark very. Fast,
[4:23:03] Speaker 1: yeah that's, Right, robin listen. To all you have to
[4:23:05] Speaker 1: do is read the text to, them the text that
[4:23:07] Speaker 1: they've never, read and they will, instinctively, reflexively on the
[4:23:13] Speaker 1: spot make up justifications for the most horrific. STUFF i
[4:23:19] Speaker 1: could have told him something that's not even in The,
[4:23:22] Speaker 1: bible and if it sounded, plausible he would have defended
[4:23:25] Speaker 1: it because he's not interested in. Truth he's interested in
[4:23:30] Speaker 1: what he already believes not being. Debunked penelope, says when
[4:23:35] Speaker 1: the women says you kiss me one more time and
[4:23:37] Speaker 1: my fist is going across her, Face jack probably thinks
[4:23:40] Speaker 1: that's to come. On, Yes, yes you'd be surprised how
[4:23:44] Speaker 1: many young men think that no Means try again in
[4:23:50] Speaker 1: a few minutes and see what's. Up. Ridiculous cannaba, says
[4:23:54] Speaker 1: this guy is so delusional with rosy glasses, on it's just. Sickening,
[4:24:00] Speaker 1: yeah it's hard to. Watch, actually it's hard to. Watch
[4:24:04] Speaker 1: And lord of The stacks is every religion boils down
[4:24:07] Speaker 1: to control over. Women it's so, true like all of
[4:24:10] Speaker 1: these religious books are full of the most, misogynistic crazy
[4:24:14] Speaker 1: things you've ever. Seen AND tnc, says guy's words don't mean.
[4:24:18] Speaker 1: Words don't you see no means, Yes essay doesn't mean
[4:24:22] Speaker 1: essay BECAUSE i say, so And god is. Real you
[4:24:25] Speaker 1: finally convinced. Me TNC. Dnc it's crazy that you can
[4:24:30] Speaker 1: read these books and rather than, saying, oh that's, horrific you, say,
[4:24:34] Speaker 1: Well god is just, no, no the fuck he's. Not
[4:24:36] Speaker 1: he's not. Just he just did a horrible. Thing god
[4:24:38] Speaker 1: can't be. Unjust he must if he is, unjust we
[4:24:41] Speaker 1: just read. It it's in front of your. Face by
[4:24:44] Speaker 1: five FOUR o five says you can try to kiss your,
[4:24:46] Speaker 1: girlfriend but if you keep going after, no that is.
[4:24:49] Speaker 1: Assault AND i. Agree no means. No it doesn't matter
[4:24:54] Speaker 1: if you already did it once or one hundred. Times
[4:24:56] Speaker 1: no means, No and in, Turn shrimp says Crap. Jack,
[4:25:01] Speaker 1: yeah i'd say. So it's a shame that since a
[4:25:04] Speaker 1: nice young man has to go out with such dishonor
[4:25:08] Speaker 1: argument from, motion Says. Jack hale needs to be on
[4:25:11] Speaker 1: a list. Asap. Yeah half These christians need to be
[4:25:14] Speaker 1: on a list. Somewhere they need to be. Watched they're,
[4:25:16] Speaker 1: dangerous even the nice ones are. Dangerous lamika Says jack outed.
[4:25:23] Speaker 1: Himself religious people never acknowledged delusions or. Hallucinations that's the. Case,
[4:25:27] Speaker 1: actually in, fact most like religious people who are delusional
[4:25:31] Speaker 1: don't know they're. Delusional like they're just. Stuck they're trapped
[4:25:35] Speaker 1: and they actually can't get out of. It it's just,
[4:25:39] Speaker 1: me says your Show. Barbecue, YEAH i appreciate, that love your.
[4:25:44] Speaker 1: SHOW i appreciate. That just me and, WE i mean
[4:25:48] Speaker 1: we we had some cooking. There mike, SAYS i would
[4:25:52] Speaker 1: Say jack needs huge grades from The Holy, spirit but
[4:25:55] Speaker 1: empathy is not one of the. Gifts poor guy is
[4:25:57] Speaker 1: one hundred percent. Docturated that is the. Case like WHERE
[4:26:04] Speaker 1: i come, from WHEN i was a Young. Christian IF
[4:26:06] Speaker 1: i had read this passage at say eighteen or, nineteen
[4:26:11] Speaker 1: my IF i was in front of a, crowd my
[4:26:13] Speaker 1: response would, be, Oh i've never read. THAT i need
[4:26:16] Speaker 1: to go think about. THAT i need to go read
[4:26:18] Speaker 1: more about. THIS i wouldn't have immediately jumped, to, hey
[4:26:21] Speaker 1: let's defend. Rape it's crazy that people will jump to that.
[4:26:25] Speaker 1: Defense they won't even consider the possibility that something's. Amiss,
[4:26:31] Speaker 1: WELL i Says jack would one hundred percent make baby
[4:26:34] Speaker 1: paste jerky. Strips you know what WILL I i almost
[4:26:37] Speaker 1: got to that. POINT i wish BEFORE i dropped, them
[4:26:40] Speaker 1: we would have done another baby. Paste that's my, bad
[4:26:43] Speaker 1: that's my. MISTAKE i should have done one more baby.
[4:26:46] Speaker 1: PASTE i PROMISED i won't miss that opportunity next. Time
[4:26:49] Speaker 1: john Says jack Looks. Mega sounds. Fabulous he actually does sound.
[4:26:53] Speaker 1: Nice does he look? MEGA i don't. KNOW i didn't,
[4:26:56] Speaker 1: see so maybe they do kind of have a. Look ella,
[4:27:02] Speaker 1: says better Check jack's basement Asav, yeah and there's someone
[4:27:06] Speaker 1: tamed up down. There frank Says dan McClellan has a
[4:27:10] Speaker 1: responsive video of someone USING ai himself to try to debunk.
[4:27:14] Speaker 1: You it's weird but. Hilarious actually. Yes so there's a
[4:27:16] Speaker 1: guy on YouTube who literally hates me because he came
[4:27:20] Speaker 1: up once and got utterly. Cooked then he came up
[4:27:24] Speaker 1: a second. TIME i think he was drunk and he
[4:27:27] Speaker 1: got even more. Cooked and ever since he's been MAKING
[4:27:31] Speaker 1: ai videos about, me trying TO i don't, know trying
[4:27:35] Speaker 1: to convince people THAT i said things THAT i didn't
[4:27:37] Speaker 1: say and That dan McClellan cooked, me which obviously failed
[4:27:41] Speaker 1: every single. Time and like all of my supporters went
[4:27:44] Speaker 1: and found THE ai generated videos and reported. Him goof
[4:27:47] Speaker 1: Of Bearded gamer, SAYS i for, one very much appreciate
[4:27:52] Speaker 1: you helping everyone to see facts and sharing your. Knowledge
[4:27:55] Speaker 1: thank you, WELL i appreciate. It, GOOFY i really do appreciate.
[4:27:57] Speaker 1: That and Dope, beard by the, WAY i appreciate. It good,
[4:28:00] Speaker 1: Beard Adam brown my. Friend great to see you, again
[4:28:03] Speaker 1: and SAYS i feel like G. Man, SORRY i feel
[4:28:06] Speaker 1: like G man did what he was what he did
[4:28:10] Speaker 1: to get booted and play the. Victim, ACTUALLY i think you're.
[4:28:12] Speaker 1: Right he loves to get booted like. That he'll he'll
[4:28:16] Speaker 1: go on a, livestream get booted and talk forever about.
[4:28:18] Speaker 1: It he, says knew he was cooked and took the flaccid.
[4:28:22] Speaker 1: Root BUT i am rock, hard buddy. Boy you Are, Adam,
[4:28:25] Speaker 1: Adam you're always rock hard For, DOUG i appreciate. That
[4:28:29] Speaker 1: and also from our Friend Taco, joe it's been a.
[4:28:31] Speaker 1: Minute thanks for being. Here good to see, you Says.
[4:28:34] Speaker 1: Justin this super chat is in honor Of Jason, pate
[4:28:38] Speaker 1: who cries NonStop in the chat that you get super.
[4:28:41] Speaker 1: Chats thank you so, Much. Taco christians hate the fact
[4:28:48] Speaker 1: that people support WHAT i. Do they hate. It the
[4:28:51] Speaker 1: same hypocrites will turn around and justify pastors taking poor
[4:28:55] Speaker 1: people's money to buy extra. Jets they don't hate, that
[4:28:59] Speaker 1: but they do hate me getting paid for my. Work
[4:29:02] Speaker 1: And Jason pate there he is At Taco joe is
[4:29:05] Speaker 1: being disingenuous like The. CHRISTIANS i don't. Know, LISTEN i
[4:29:09] Speaker 1: haven't been part of the. COMMENTS i CAN'T i can't
[4:29:11] Speaker 1: moderate what you guys are fighting. About Matt dogherty says
[4:29:15] Speaker 1: in response to hot, dogs the correct answer, is of,
[4:29:20] Speaker 1: course that hot dogs should not be consumed by. Humans polish,
[4:29:23] Speaker 1: Sausage italian. Sausage, sure hot dogs are, Shite, Okay i'll
[4:29:27] Speaker 1: give you some. Credit real, SAUSAGE i think is better
[4:29:30] Speaker 1: than hot. Dogs hot, dogs it's a, spam it's mystery.
[4:29:34] Speaker 1: Meat that being, SAID i still like. Them DO i
[4:29:37] Speaker 1: like them as much as like a really good? Sausage?
[4:29:41] Speaker 1: NO i, don't but do it WHILE i eat? Them oh, yeah?
[4:29:44] Speaker 1: YEAH a lad of some spicy, mustard maybe some, dijon
[4:29:48] Speaker 1: maybe some some catsup and uh you got me Spicy.
[4:29:52] Speaker 1: Godzilla thank you for the super. Testys can you add
[4:29:54] Speaker 1: to the cheat sheet a tab covering talking points for
[4:29:57] Speaker 1: the New covenant apologetics outside of the failed? Prophecies thank,
[4:30:02] Speaker 1: you rocard For. Doug, yes let me put a note real,
[4:30:06] Speaker 1: quick SO i actually have a document for this. Already
[4:30:15] Speaker 1: i'm just making a, note, Okay So i'll add to
[4:30:18] Speaker 1: the cheat. Sheet i'll add my documentation of why we
[4:30:24] Speaker 1: get to the conclusion that the laws are forever and
[4:30:29] Speaker 1: How paul's just an. Idiot i'll do. THAT i add
[4:30:31] Speaker 1: that does cheat sheet good suggestions, space Got, zilla it's
[4:30:35] Speaker 1: a good. ONE i think a lot of people have
[4:30:36] Speaker 1: asked me about the laws because they don't know where
[4:30:40] Speaker 1: to start with the. Laws BUT i can put that.
[4:30:42] Speaker 1: Together keith, Says i've been watching you for a couple months,
[4:30:45] Speaker 1: now and WHILE i enjoy your. Debates guests Like jack
[4:30:48] Speaker 1: make me discourage for. Humanity, Yes, Keith i'm with. You,
[4:30:51] Speaker 1: Actually so WHEN i first started doing these live, STREAMS
[4:30:55] Speaker 1: i WAS i did not know people like this. Existed
[4:30:58] Speaker 1: the PEOPLE i grew up weren't like. This and SO
[4:31:02] Speaker 1: i was slowly running across people that would defend drowning
[4:31:05] Speaker 1: babies and, bathtubs they would defend slavery and grape. Apology
[4:31:09] Speaker 1: and that's WHEN i, Realized, oh there's a lot of
[4:31:11] Speaker 1: these motherfuckers out. THERE i mean there's a. Lot and
[4:31:15] Speaker 1: NOW i kind of focus on this stuff because there's
[4:31:18] Speaker 1: so many of. Them it's such a good display of
[4:31:20] Speaker 1: how religion rots the. Brain Mixtriss, monica thank you for
[4:31:24] Speaker 1: the find out That supertenes, says ask them how many
[4:31:26] Speaker 1: people got killed in The bible versus The devil By?
[4:31:28] Speaker 1: God in The bible versus The, Devil i'm pretty Sure
[4:31:31] Speaker 1: god's body count is. Higher it's way. Higher like it's
[4:31:34] Speaker 1: not even. Close like the only Thing god ever beat
[4:31:38] Speaker 1: The devil at was being. Evil nobody's more evil in
[4:31:42] Speaker 1: this book Than. God devil doesn't even come. Close, mcdubbin
[4:31:46] Speaker 1: thank you for The supertendo, SAYS i need a shower After. Jake, yeah,
[4:31:48] Speaker 1: Actually i'm gonna take a shower and go to bed. Myself, Yes,
[4:31:52] Speaker 1: jake that posff hasn't learned the Name. JACK i. Apologize,
[4:31:59] Speaker 1: Listen i'm an asshole for giving the wrong, name but
[4:32:02] Speaker 1: not as much of an asshole for raping. WOMEN i
[4:32:05] Speaker 1: can't wait for this video to get. Demonetized skeptics And scoundrels,
[4:32:09] Speaker 1: says of, course you can put ketchup on a hot.
[4:32:11] Speaker 1: Dog you can put ketchup on any. SANDWICH i. Agree,
[4:32:15] Speaker 1: actually speaking of sandwiches and hot dogs in the same,
[4:32:18] Speaker 1: scentage if you've never Had skyline, chili get yourself a
[4:32:22] Speaker 1: chili cheese dog sandwich a chili cheese sandwich as well
[4:32:27] Speaker 1: With hunt The dog, amazing, amazing a delicacy from the
[4:32:31] Speaker 1: state Of, ohio the heart of it. All And mike
[4:32:35] Speaker 1: my conscious Says jack was one of the Worst i've
[4:32:37] Speaker 1: seen in a. Minute, yeah when it comes to cognitive,
[4:32:41] Speaker 1: Dissonance jack was one of the worst we've seen in a.
[4:32:45] Speaker 1: MINUTE i didn't know how FAR i could push them
[4:32:47] Speaker 1: into the corner of cognitive, dissonance but as it turns,
[4:32:50] Speaker 1: out pretty pretty. Far eric, says more important than the
[4:32:54] Speaker 1: hot dog. Convo can we all, agree plain ass cheese pizza.
[4:32:57] Speaker 1: Sucks toppings are the? Pizza oh, okay, OKAY i got
[4:33:01] Speaker 1: things to say about. This. Okay first of, ALL i love.
[4:33:04] Speaker 1: Cheese and WHEN i SAY i love, CHEESE i MEAN
[4:33:06] Speaker 1: i just raw dog cheese all the. TIME i just
[4:33:08] Speaker 1: take the block and eat that. SHIT i cheese all,
[4:33:12] Speaker 1: day every. Day SO i love a good cheese pizza
[4:33:15] Speaker 1: as long as it's like double cheese or triple. Cheese
[4:33:18] Speaker 1: gotta have lots of. Cheese it can't be one of
[4:33:20] Speaker 1: these these pizzas where is lightly sprinkled cheese on here
[4:33:24] Speaker 1: and you have to like, hunt like find the right.
[4:33:26] Speaker 1: Pizza fuck. That you need cheese. Everywhere you need cheese
[4:33:29] Speaker 1: in the. Crust you need that stuff crust. Pizza that being,
[4:33:32] Speaker 1: Said i'll eat. That if there's not a good serving
[4:33:36] Speaker 1: of cheese on, it then you better have some pepperoni's
[4:33:39] Speaker 1: and some other stuff on. There, Now i'm not. Picky
[4:33:41] Speaker 1: i'll take most. TOPPINGS i like this, shit even Ollivems
[4:33:44] Speaker 1: i'll take on the. Pizza even banana, PEPPERS i don't
[4:33:47] Speaker 1: care put them on. There but cheese. Pizza i'm okay
[4:33:52] Speaker 1: with cheese. PIZZA i can rock with cheese. Pizza but
[4:33:54] Speaker 1: it's gotta be real. Cheese it's gotta be a lot of.
[4:33:56] Speaker 1: Cheese gotta be good. Cheese you can't cheat me on.
[4:33:59] Speaker 1: Cheese don't cheat me on the. Cheese marcus. Says sarah
[4:34:03] Speaker 1: is one hundred percent. Right no ketchup on that hot. Dog,
[4:34:05] Speaker 1: marcus but we used to be, friends and, LISTEN i get,
[4:34:09] Speaker 1: IT i get. IT i know you have an opinion
[4:34:12] Speaker 1: on a hot dog that's different than. Mine and trust,
[4:34:14] Speaker 1: Me i'm not saying it's objectively good to put to
[4:34:18] Speaker 1: catch up hot. Dogs it's subjectively good to put ketchup
[4:34:21] Speaker 1: on hot. Dogs because my subjective framework agrees with putting
[4:34:26] Speaker 1: on hot. Dogs it means you can't tell me that
[4:34:28] Speaker 1: it's objectively bad to put ketchup on hot. Dogs the
[4:34:32] Speaker 1: saying that's the ARGUMENT i would. Run, Anyways skeptics and
[4:34:36] Speaker 1: scoundrel is my. Friend great to see it in here.
[4:34:38] Speaker 1: Again thank you for the super, test Says i'd introduce
[4:34:40] Speaker 1: you to my, messiah but unfortunately he lives In. CANADA
[4:34:43] Speaker 1: i don't know who your messiah is In. Canada there
[4:34:47] Speaker 1: could be a lot of people up. There it's certainly
[4:34:49] Speaker 1: Not Selein Delon dion because it's it's a it's a
[4:34:52] Speaker 1: He Brian. Adams maybe maybe he's pretty he's pretty bad.
[4:34:57] Speaker 1: ASS i have to think about. That SKEPTICIS i love
[4:34:59] Speaker 1: to know who your messiah. Is i'm not far From, canada,
[4:35:02] Speaker 1: actually Says tutor. Ed it's a dual fulfillment when you
[4:35:06] Speaker 1: ride two donkeys instead of just. One is? It listen
[4:35:11] Speaker 1: in terms of dual, fulfillment this is the only dual
[4:35:14] Speaker 1: FULFILLMENT i would ever, Accept not the kind The christians talk.
[4:35:17] Speaker 1: About i'm talking about riding two, donkeys like, planking like,
[4:35:24] Speaker 1: pyramiding like like. Surfing That's that's the only way to do.
[4:35:29] Speaker 1: It that's What i'm calling the right. Way. Helping mega,
[4:35:32] Speaker 1: says thanks For tuesday night barbecue, Praise. Doug, well thank, You,
[4:35:35] Speaker 1: MEGA i appreciate. That and nobody on. Fire glad to
[4:35:39] Speaker 1: hear no one's on. Fire thank you for the ten dollars.
[4:35:41] Speaker 1: Justin your biblical knowledge is. Insane you're a theological. NINJA
[4:35:45] Speaker 1: i appreciate. THAT i think my biblical knowledge is pretty.
[4:35:48] Speaker 1: Good my science knowledge is. Shit like once we leave,
[4:35:51] Speaker 1: ELECTRICITY i DON'T i don't know. SCIENCES i love the,
[4:35:54] Speaker 1: sciences but LIKE i can't do science like Like forest
[4:35:59] Speaker 1: Foul high Or Planet peterson or Doctor blitz like these
[4:36:04] Speaker 1: people they're just they're they're so, Amazing like what WHAT
[4:36:09] Speaker 1: i do WHEN i talk about, Science like it's like
[4:36:11] Speaker 1: watching a baby drool over like uh like oatmeal like.
[4:36:16] Speaker 1: That that's and they're they're like making five star restaurants,
[4:36:21] Speaker 1: meals you know WHAT i. Mean it's just completely different. Things,
[4:36:24] Speaker 1: cameron thank you for the supertest Justin what's up With Tuesday?
[4:36:27] Speaker 1: Night another night to be spoiled for free? Education love you,
[4:36:31] Speaker 1: Sir Hello, Sarah, well thank, You. CAMERON i appreciate. That
[4:36:34] Speaker 1: So i'm trying to stream as much AS i can this, week,
[4:36:39] Speaker 1: uh later next week and the week after, That i'm
[4:36:42] Speaker 1: gonna be on vacation with my. Son So i'm getting
[4:36:45] Speaker 1: some extra time in now Because i'm going to have
[4:36:48] Speaker 1: like like a week and a half where my son
[4:36:50] Speaker 1: AND i are are gonna be completely off doing fun
[4:36:53] Speaker 1: stuff And i'm not going to be online at. All
[4:36:57] Speaker 1: i'll be posting clipped content, obviously But i'm not gonna
[4:36:59] Speaker 1: be a live. Streaming my conscience coming in again SAYS
[4:37:02] Speaker 1: i gave four. Cats i'm, Sorry i've got four cats
[4:37:06] Speaker 1: all are currently mad at me for giving them their
[4:37:10] Speaker 1: D l E a Treatments, TODAY i expect a few
[4:37:12] Speaker 1: extra scratches in The morning's can do. That they can
[4:37:16] Speaker 1: hold some. Grudges they. Can they get mad when they
[4:37:21] Speaker 1: don't get their. Ways sometimes my cat does. That like
[4:37:23] Speaker 1: my cat demands to be pet and IF i don't
[4:37:26] Speaker 1: pet them when he wants to be, pet he'll Get
[4:37:28] Speaker 1: he'll get a little pissy with. Me but it's. OKAY
[4:37:30] Speaker 1: i love my. Cat And shay, SAYS i really appreciate
[4:37:33] Speaker 1: what you, do my, guy keep up the fight for critical. Thinking,
[4:37:35] Speaker 1: well thank You shaye for the ton of super. Chat
[4:37:38] Speaker 1: And i'm doing EVERYTHING i, can like every bit THAT
[4:37:41] Speaker 1: i can. DO i am. Doing And sue has Seen
[4:37:46] Speaker 1: Sue Sue Sue tuacoon two thousand and. One thankive you
[4:37:50] Speaker 1: the ten that Super chet, says my favorite way to
[4:37:52] Speaker 1: think of The New testament is It's Disney Star. Wars
[4:37:56] Speaker 1: it's a sequel to one planned four and doesn't fit
[4:37:59] Speaker 1: with the old in very. Well, oh that's that's a
[4:38:02] Speaker 1: really good way to point. In ACTUALLY i do remember
[4:38:05] Speaker 1: so like WHEN i graduated from, seminary there's, like, well
[4:38:09] Speaker 1: we're gonna call it like an exit, interview, right they
[4:38:13] Speaker 1: do this really interesting exit, interview and they did they
[4:38:17] Speaker 1: pick your brain a little bit kind to see where
[4:38:19] Speaker 1: you're at theologically and how you liked your. Experience and
[4:38:23] Speaker 1: they were particularly interested during my exit interview BECAUSE i
[4:38:26] Speaker 1: was one of the few people that specifically studied The
[4:38:29] Speaker 1: Old testament in the in. Seminary AND i didn't want
[4:38:33] Speaker 1: to like burst their bubble for, them BUT i was, like,
[4:38:34] Speaker 1: yeah you, know it's very. INTERESTING i loved learning more
[4:38:36] Speaker 1: about you, KNOW i love studying the prophecies and the
[4:38:39] Speaker 1: history and. Whatnot and MY i HAD i had an
[4:38:44] Speaker 1: advisor with me from the, school BUT i also had
[4:38:47] Speaker 1: what they called your. Mentor so when you go to
[4:38:49] Speaker 1: seminary like the ONE i went, to you're required to
[4:38:52] Speaker 1: have a pastoral mentor while you're in seminary as part
[4:38:56] Speaker 1: of your seminary. Training and so my pastoral mentor was
[4:38:59] Speaker 1: there as, well and he HE i don't think he
[4:39:03] Speaker 1: knew why was studying The Old. Testament he got excited
[4:39:05] Speaker 1: and he was, like, yeah, yeah it's so cool that,
[4:39:07] Speaker 1: he you, know studied The Old. TESTAMENT i always say
[4:39:09] Speaker 1: that the you, know The Old testament Is. Jesus you,
[4:39:12] Speaker 1: Know jesus. Concealed The New testament Is jesus revealed it
[4:39:16] Speaker 1: just it fits together so, perfectly and INSIDE i was,
[4:39:18] Speaker 1: like oh my, god no it. DOESN'T i just BUT
[4:39:20] Speaker 1: i JUST i need to get my diploma and get
[4:39:22] Speaker 1: the fuck out of. Here they don't. Match they don't
[4:39:24] Speaker 1: go To. Jeta, guys you would only believe that if
[4:39:28] Speaker 1: you only ever read The New. Testament AND i, reacted
[4:39:31] Speaker 1: thank you for the six sixty. SIX i really appreciate.
[4:39:33] Speaker 1: That rock hard For, doug he, SAYS i Think doug
[4:39:36] Speaker 1: hardness be upon. Him for The. Mormons they Show christians
[4:39:39] Speaker 1: what they look like to The. JEWS i love Watching
[4:39:44] Speaker 1: christians say that The mormons are like heretics and then
[4:39:47] Speaker 1: show them how they're the exact same, thing exact same.
[4:39:51] Speaker 1: Thing todd, says his miracles can't be. Debunked you can
[4:39:55] Speaker 1: even prove that he performed a. Miracle you don't have
[4:39:57] Speaker 1: to debunk something if it's not even. True you can't
[4:40:00] Speaker 1: debunk the miracles Of. Vespasian you can't debunk the miracles Of.
[4:40:04] Speaker 1: Ysclepius Acme hero, says make a pleasing aroma to The.
[4:40:08] Speaker 1: Lord doug four twenty we. DID i think we ended
[4:40:11] Speaker 1: on a Pleasing. Aroma IF i IF i had to
[4:40:15] Speaker 1: make a, Wager adam, Says sarapis was a shadow and
[4:40:19] Speaker 1: type for serpentor hail. COME i. Agree i'm with. You
[4:40:26] Speaker 1: we're in agreement. HERE i like this mythological. Origin freedom from.
[4:40:30] Speaker 1: Security thank you for the six sixty. Six Hail nero
[4:40:33] Speaker 1: says justin you Are christian. Kryptonite kryptonite is but another,
[4:40:37] Speaker 1: stone another firm stone on which the ground on which
[4:40:41] Speaker 1: to ground all. Bs we're told we don't have rockhard
[4:40:44] Speaker 1: For Doug, well thank you so. Much freedom AND i
[4:40:47] Speaker 1: might be kryptonite For, Christians i'm not kryptonite For. Muslims THAT'S.
[4:40:50] Speaker 1: MS ms is The muslim, Kryptonite colonel Of. Truth thank
[4:40:54] Speaker 1: you for the two, hours super things and one bad
[4:40:56] Speaker 1: weekend that must reference To. Jesus thank you for the
[4:40:59] Speaker 1: six sixty says holy shitake uh and huge. Grace you're still.
[4:41:05] Speaker 1: Cooking this is going to be the best commute material ever,
[4:41:09] Speaker 1: Tomorrow doug Willing, well thank you bad week AND i appreciate.
[4:41:12] Speaker 1: That AND i hope that you drive, safely don't drive.
[4:41:15] Speaker 1: RECKLESSLY i know listening to the conversation might make you
[4:41:18] Speaker 1: want to pound your, fist but keep two hands on the. Wheel,
[4:41:21] Speaker 1: hey who'd say sent out Five Dzy debate. MEMBERSHIPS i appreciate,
[4:41:25] Speaker 1: that he hud big big w for, that and rock
[4:41:29] Speaker 1: hard For. Doug great to see you. Again thank you
[4:41:31] Speaker 1: for the ten that super, chat, Says doug told me
[4:41:33] Speaker 1: to send this super, chat And i'm not going to
[4:41:37] Speaker 1: anger the. Gods Rock hard For doug And Jared, stone you,
[4:41:42] Speaker 1: Listen doug's never, Angry he's Never he loves you. Unconditionally
[4:41:46] Speaker 1: he like he's never going to send you to. Hell
[4:41:48] Speaker 1: he doesn't make you weep and gnash your teeth like
[4:41:51] Speaker 1: he's not going to do any of that. Too he's
[4:41:54] Speaker 1: a loving rock hard, deity and Rock card, says for the,
[4:41:57] Speaker 1: Record doug did not create desert. Imens he. Didn't he did.
[4:42:01] Speaker 1: Not Although i'll never not be. Tickled i'll never not
[4:42:05] Speaker 1: be tickled when you do The hebrew Hymen deuteronomy twenty
[4:42:11] Speaker 1: two and they try to tell you that Ancient hebrew
[4:42:14] Speaker 1: women had different hymen's back then it every. Time it's,
[4:42:16] Speaker 1: funny And polypolitics says thanks for the help on my
[4:42:20] Speaker 1: Old testament law, Arguments. Polly i'm glad to help. You
[4:42:24] Speaker 1: And polly is a good friend of mine who's streaming
[4:42:26] Speaker 1: on YouTube and. TikTok if you're not Following polly politics
[4:42:30] Speaker 1: on YouTube and, TikTok you're missing. Out you really need.
[4:42:32] Speaker 1: To he's, phenomenal he's finale and he looks way better
[4:42:35] Speaker 1: in a tank top THAN i ever. Have And, sonas
[4:42:38] Speaker 1: thank you so so much for the two Dollar i'm,
[4:42:40] Speaker 1: sorry two Hundred argentinian dollars super. Chat that's, huge, friend
[4:42:44] Speaker 1: BECAUSE i think most guests know the right, answer but
[4:42:46] Speaker 1: have have A pavlovian response to that prevents them from speaking.
[4:42:51] Speaker 1: IT i think you're. Right they know the right, answer
[4:42:56] Speaker 1: and they're reading the passage and they know in their
[4:42:58] Speaker 1: mind what the right, answer but they can't bring themselves
[4:43:02] Speaker 1: to be. Truthful they have to sit here and lie
[4:43:05] Speaker 1: to your. Face they would lie to their mother's face
[4:43:08] Speaker 1: about this passage if she read this to, them because
[4:43:12] Speaker 1: they're not interested in what's. True they're interested in not
[4:43:17] Speaker 1: losing their feeling in their tomue tumb about their. Religion
[4:43:21] Speaker 1: that's what this is. About And ahuda left this, says
[4:43:24] Speaker 1: If god caused, it it isn't a, sin, right, kid that's.
[4:43:28] Speaker 1: Right If god caused, it then it can't be a,
[4:43:30] Speaker 1: sin which means if the women committed adultery rather than getting,
[4:43:34] Speaker 1: raped then it Means god caused sin to, happen And
[4:43:37] Speaker 1: god wouldn't do that in his. Worldview banging Out west,
[4:43:41] Speaker 1: says justin up, here Chopping, WOOD i think you're. Right
[4:43:47] Speaker 1: we made some, pretzels you. KNOW i did finally go
[4:43:49] Speaker 1: out and buy some hot pretzels to eat during the live,
[4:43:52] Speaker 1: stream AND i keep forgetting to make them before the live.
[4:43:54] Speaker 1: STREAM i need like a little pretzel, warmer like a
[4:43:56] Speaker 1: little easy bake oven up here to warm up my
[4:43:59] Speaker 1: pretzels to eat during the during the. Stream colonel Of truth,
[4:44:04] Speaker 1: says this poor. Simp subjective morals are negotiated and enforced
[4:44:09] Speaker 1: by all animal. GROUPS i, agree, right and you don't
[4:44:13] Speaker 1: have to like subjective. Morals you don't have to agree
[4:44:17] Speaker 1: that they're good Even but the reality, is until you
[4:44:20] Speaker 1: can demonstrate that objective morals, exist you're stuck with. Them
[4:44:24] Speaker 1: nothing you could do about. It you have to be
[4:44:27] Speaker 1: stuck with them or you prove they're. Objective that being
[4:44:31] Speaker 1: said Garbg, gaman great to see, you my. Friend thank
[4:44:33] Speaker 1: you for the five. Dollars Conduct bucks, says Did god
[4:44:36] Speaker 1: create the world or just allow it to. Happen, yeah
[4:44:39] Speaker 1: isn't that. Crazy god exclicitly says that he created the.
[4:44:44] Speaker 1: World but when he Says i'm causing these women to be, taken,
[4:44:48] Speaker 1: no he didn't do. That every time he Says i'm doing,
[4:44:52] Speaker 1: it he's doing. It just this one, time he's not doing.
[4:44:55] Speaker 1: It justin, right thank you for the ten dollar Super chest,
[4:44:58] Speaker 1: says what's? Crazy he? Is if it said and SO
[4:45:02] Speaker 1: i will Save david's, wives AND i will cause them
[4:45:05] Speaker 1: to be, saved and Then absalom saved them from being
[4:45:09] Speaker 1: from a burning, building they would say it was Solely god's. Doing, Yes,
[4:45:14] Speaker 1: oh it is such a good. Point you're. Right If
[4:45:16] Speaker 1: god Says i'm going to cause something good to happen
[4:45:18] Speaker 1: and then a person does, it they did not for
[4:45:21] Speaker 1: a minute would they ever say, No god didn't cause.
[4:45:23] Speaker 1: It god didn't cause. It the man with the free
[4:45:25] Speaker 1: will did. It this was Something god. Did that's that's
[4:45:29] Speaker 1: such a good. Point justin next time we do this,
[4:45:31] Speaker 1: PASSAGE i might bring that. Up that's. GOOD i love
[4:45:35] Speaker 1: it when the people in the audience give me, More.
[4:45:37] Speaker 1: Ammo it's just it's the best. Thing Hard work. Says
[4:45:41] Speaker 1: why Is satan held responsible for influencing people's freely chosen,
[4:45:47] Speaker 1: actions But god gets to pass when he. Does next,
[4:45:50] Speaker 1: time compare scriptures Of satan stirring up trouble and ask
[4:45:54] Speaker 1: if he did. Evil this is a really a good
[4:45:56] Speaker 1: point because if if all the sins are just based
[4:46:08] Speaker 1: solely on our own free, will they're not influenced by
[4:46:12] Speaker 1: any divine, entity whether good or, bad then you can't
[4:46:17] Speaker 1: say That satan tempts, anybody Or satan causes or influences anyone's.
[4:46:21] Speaker 1: Sin you can't say. That at some, point you have
[4:46:26] Speaker 1: to admit That god is influencing. People as we Read,
[4:46:31] Speaker 1: martin thank you for the ten dollar super, Chat martin,
[4:46:33] Speaker 1: says doing good Justin, HEY i appreciate, That. MARTIN i appreciate.
[4:46:37] Speaker 1: That thank you for supporting the. Channel And logan says
[4:46:40] Speaker 1: would have been a perfect time to eat a soft.
[4:46:42] Speaker 1: PRETZEL i, KNOW i, GUYS i got to get an
[4:46:47] Speaker 1: easy bakeup AND i don't want to rele oven up.
[4:46:49] Speaker 1: HERE i don't need a lot of. POWER i just
[4:46:50] Speaker 1: want like a little easy bake oven with like a
[4:46:52] Speaker 1: light bulb in it THAT i could put like one
[4:46:54] Speaker 1: pretzel in and keep it warm during the live. Streams
[4:46:57] Speaker 1: so at the right, TIME i can just pull out
[4:46:59] Speaker 1: my my warm pretzel and JUST i, mean it would
[4:47:03] Speaker 1: have been the perfect. TIME i did order MY i
[4:47:07] Speaker 1: finally made a coffee mug that's Got doug eating. Pretzels
[4:47:10] Speaker 1: it Says Doug's Pretzel. Shop so you can wear A
[4:47:13] Speaker 1: t shirt or get a coffee mug or, something get
[4:47:15] Speaker 1: stickers With Doug's Pretzel shop on. IT i think you'll like,
[4:47:17] Speaker 1: That dominique, Says, So, dave grape is determined by nationality and. Date,
[4:47:25] Speaker 1: yeah it kind of seems that, way. Right if you're
[4:47:30] Speaker 1: of a particular nationality or it happened at a particular time,
[4:47:32] Speaker 1: period then it's Not, Grape that's what he's. Saying, yeah
[4:47:35] Speaker 1: because if it happened to anybody, else it would be.
[4:47:37] Speaker 1: Great dominique, SAYS i, Mean, jake we, knew we. Knew
[4:47:43] Speaker 1: you Meant, jake Not. Dave don't. Worry don't. WORRY i
[4:47:47] Speaker 1: DID i do the same. Thing. Kyle good to see, you,
[4:47:50] Speaker 1: Buddy he. Says, Well i'm officially an atheist now truth
[4:47:54] Speaker 1: sets for. Real, Well i'm Glad kyle you finally made
[4:47:59] Speaker 1: it to the end of your deconstruction. Journey. CONGRATULATIONS i
[4:48:02] Speaker 1: don't think there's a whole lot to go from here
[4:48:05] Speaker 1: other than continue to. Learning so read the. Book readers
[4:48:08] Speaker 1: are leaders. Friends Red, trek thank you for the fifteen
[4:48:12] Speaker 1: dollars super. Chat it's a big who, says it's quite
[4:48:15] Speaker 1: remarkable how Much christians are ignorant of The Hebrew. Bible
[4:48:19] Speaker 1: I'm i'm never not surprised by, it AND i KNOW
[4:48:24] Speaker 1: i shouldn't be, surprised but Like i'm still a little
[4:48:28] Speaker 1: bit shocked every time when LIKE i go to a
[4:48:31] Speaker 1: verse that like Every christian should know and they just.
[4:48:34] Speaker 1: Don't they don't know, it like they just haven't read
[4:48:37] Speaker 1: anything in this. Book but, yeah thank you for the super.
[4:48:42] Speaker 1: Chat and Also abel, says if you need someone to
[4:48:45] Speaker 1: talk about, SCIENCE i can do it The mexican atheist
[4:48:48] Speaker 1: able well shit. Able if you're like a good science
[4:48:52] Speaker 1: person and you're free during my live streams, ever you
[4:48:55] Speaker 1: feel free to request, up you, know if you've got
[4:48:59] Speaker 1: a background in, science hit me up on the. Discord
[4:49:01] Speaker 1: let me know what your credentials. Are And, ryan thank
[4:49:05] Speaker 1: you for the ten dollars Super, yeah he, Says justin
[4:49:09] Speaker 1: Is god Good? Christian, Yes god is always good all the. Time, Justin,
[4:49:13] Speaker 1: well what about This. Christian whoa, whoa, whoa whoa who
[4:49:16] Speaker 1: AM i to comprehend What god? Is what good? IS
[4:49:21] Speaker 1: i am literally souper brained. Idiot that is the, case.
[4:49:26] Speaker 1: Right they will tell you That god is always good
[4:49:28] Speaker 1: all the. Time they know that to be the, case
[4:49:31] Speaker 1: and then the minute we start looking at his, actions
[4:49:34] Speaker 1: all of a, Sudden, OH i can't tell. YOU i
[4:49:36] Speaker 1: can't Judge. GOD i can't analyze. THIS i can't tell
[4:49:39] Speaker 1: you if this is good or. BAD i have no.
[4:49:42] Speaker 1: Knowledge oh, okay, well if you have no knowledge If
[4:49:46] Speaker 1: god is good or, bad then don't tell me he is. Good,
[4:49:49] Speaker 1: roger thank you for the ten. Dollars Super jest, says great.
[4:49:52] Speaker 1: Conversations thanks be To, doug and you, Too Justin well
[4:49:55] Speaker 1: big W, roger thank you for supporting the. CHANNEL i
[4:49:58] Speaker 1: really appreciate, that, BUDDY i really. Do AND tg, says
[4:50:03] Speaker 1: immaculate conception Is mary born with out, Originalists AND i
[4:50:06] Speaker 1: ACTUALLY i think you're right IF i remember, correctly the
[4:50:08] Speaker 1: Immaculate conception was originally About, mary not About. Jesus so
[4:50:13] Speaker 1: there's another word for the virgin. Birth it's not coming
[4:50:17] Speaker 1: to my. Brain john, Says jesus had to go the.
[4:50:20] Speaker 1: Stonings were Playing stonings or The stones the Rolling stones were.
[4:50:25] Speaker 1: PLAYING i may not get the. Joke if that's the.
[4:50:31] Speaker 1: CASE i, Apologized, JOHN i apologize if you made a
[4:50:35] Speaker 1: good joke and it was over my, Head i'm. Sorry i'm, sorry,
[4:50:39] Speaker 1: Friend i'm. Sorry someone correct me in the. Comments MAYBE
[4:50:42] Speaker 1: i can read the answer to the joke in the comments.
[4:50:46] Speaker 1: Below after the video, posted all, right we're getting closer
[4:50:51] Speaker 1: to the end of our super chat. Chain, tim thinking
[4:50:55] Speaker 1: of The tim THAT i was super, says can you
[4:50:56] Speaker 1: talk about The New World Translation bible produced by The
[4:50:59] Speaker 1: jehovah Witness what do you think of? IT i was
[4:51:02] Speaker 1: Raised Jehovah, witnesses and they think it was the best translation.
[4:51:05] Speaker 1: Available it's. Not it's not that. Great is it? Bad? No, no,
[4:51:10] Speaker 1: ACTUALLY i got a copy on my bookshop back. Here
[4:51:15] Speaker 1: that being, said, like they do some. Things so they
[4:51:20] Speaker 1: do some interesting things with The greek The. Hebrew they
[4:51:24] Speaker 1: try to render as literal as. Possible with The, greek
[4:51:26] Speaker 1: they do some funny. Things once upon, TIME i had
[4:51:30] Speaker 1: A New World translation that had a bunch of my
[4:51:32] Speaker 1: markings in it WHERE i was correcting the. TRANSLATION i
[4:51:38] Speaker 1: don't know where it's. AT i don't know where it,
[4:51:40] Speaker 1: WENT i need to get a new copy and write
[4:51:43] Speaker 1: in my new copy where all the corrections need to.
[4:51:47] Speaker 1: Be but a lot of the bookstores don't sell. THEM
[4:51:49] Speaker 1: i got mine because they came to my house and
[4:51:52] Speaker 1: they gave me a. Copy it was a thick blue,
[4:51:55] Speaker 1: one AND i kind of liked. IT i don't know
[4:51:56] Speaker 1: where it's. At it's gone IF i if they ever
[4:51:59] Speaker 1: come back to, Them i'm more than happy to take
[4:52:01] Speaker 1: one of Their bibles and mark it up and show
[4:52:03] Speaker 1: them where the bad translations. Are bofel Says, jack is
[4:52:06] Speaker 1: another example WHY i don't Have christian, friends even if
[4:52:09] Speaker 1: nice at, first the vile shit they believe is. Inexcusable
[4:52:14] Speaker 1: so many quiet ones Like, Jack, yeah that is the.
[4:52:16] Speaker 1: Case And i've seen the same thing With. Muslims i've
[4:52:19] Speaker 1: had very pleasant conversations With, muslims and all of a
[4:52:21] Speaker 1: sudden you start asking them questions about women and, apostates
[4:52:25] Speaker 1: and you find out that they think women are property
[4:52:27] Speaker 1: and that murdering apostates is dope, Right because it doesn't
[4:52:31] Speaker 1: matter if they're. Nice they will justify whatever horrific shit
[4:52:36] Speaker 1: is in their, religion whether they're nice people or. Not
[4:52:38] Speaker 1: that's why religion poisons, everything And lewis Is matthew twenty
[4:52:42] Speaker 1: one verses one through. Eleven jesus tells his disciples to. Steal,
[4:52:47] Speaker 1: yeah it does seem to be the. Case, actually he
[4:52:49] Speaker 1: doesn't say to ask for. Permission he just says tell
[4:52:52] Speaker 1: them that The lord needs of. It and that seems
[4:52:56] Speaker 1: to be the case now in the, story even Though
[4:53:00] Speaker 1: jesus tells them to. Steal in the, story they do get,
[4:53:02] Speaker 1: consent But jesus doesn't tell them to get. Consent And
[4:53:06] Speaker 1: Godless doctor, says Recommend recovering From religion for the deconstructing. Folks,
[4:53:11] Speaker 1: yes if you're deconstructing and you're leaving, religion considering and leaving,
[4:53:15] Speaker 1: religion check Out recovering From. Religion they do great. Work
[4:53:19] Speaker 1: they do really good. Work And carlos, says just saying
[4:53:24] Speaker 1: hi and thanks for the cook and love you. Man
[4:53:26] Speaker 1: we thank, You, CARLOS i appreciate, you and thanks for being,
[4:53:29] Speaker 1: here and thank you for supporting the. Channel Silver, surfer
[4:53:32] Speaker 1: thank you for the four hour super. THANKS i appreciate.
[4:53:35] Speaker 1: That and ALSO tg come in again with another super.
[4:53:38] Speaker 1: Chat thank you for the ten Dour superchest. Says christians
[4:53:40] Speaker 1: never realize that the New testament authors manipulated The jesus
[4:53:44] Speaker 1: story to fit The Old testament. Prophecies if they rewrote
[4:53:48] Speaker 1: historical people Like, pilot what else would they alter to
[4:53:51] Speaker 1: fit their narrative. Bias. Exactly they're writing the books to
[4:53:57] Speaker 1: complete the prophecies as much as they. Could the reality
[4:54:01] Speaker 1: is he didn't complete any. Prophesies you have to contort
[4:54:03] Speaker 1: yourself into pretzels to get to that. Point you can't
[4:54:07] Speaker 1: be honest with the. Text And jerry, Says i'm Actually
[4:54:11] Speaker 1: i'm actually already sitting on the metaphorical. Throne So jesus
[4:54:15] Speaker 1: needs to find his own and that once you get
[4:54:17] Speaker 1: the metaphorical thrones and metaphorical, kingdoms and anyone can fulfill that.
[4:54:21] Speaker 1: Shit i'm a. KING i wore A Burger king. Crown
[4:54:24] Speaker 1: one that makes me a. King four of my, friend
[4:54:27] Speaker 1: good to see, you it. Says my only problem With
[4:54:29] Speaker 1: mormonism is it has one too many m's in. It,
[4:54:33] Speaker 1: LISTEN i UNDERSTAND i have a, lisp SO i have
[4:54:37] Speaker 1: to stay away From SSA's says are the ones that
[4:54:39] Speaker 1: fuck me. Up that's WHY i like. You if you
[4:54:42] Speaker 1: have a religion with a bunch of s's in, It
[4:54:45] Speaker 1: i'm already. OUT i don't even don't even tell me
[4:54:47] Speaker 1: what it. Says i'm a teacher coming in and again
[4:54:50] Speaker 1: says worst thing about being an. Atheist you can't SAY
[4:54:53] Speaker 1: i told you so after you. Die best YouTube channel
[4:54:56] Speaker 1: ever Rock hard For. Dog, heyha thank. YOU i appreciate, that, because,
[4:54:59] Speaker 1: yeah if we're right at the, end like we're just,
[4:55:02] Speaker 1: right we don't we never get to turn around and be, like,
[4:55:04] Speaker 1: HAH i told you this is it because we're, Gone we're,
[4:55:06] Speaker 1: done and the dead no, nothing and the dead care
[4:55:10] Speaker 1: not uh because they're not. Here Philly, derk thank you
[4:55:15] Speaker 1: for the fin hours, supertest says Praise. DOUG i want
[4:55:17] Speaker 1: to learn more about the history Surrounding christianity And. Judaism
[4:55:21] Speaker 1: is there any books you? RECOMMEND i would start with
[4:55:30] Speaker 1: the writings Of frank Bore. ACROSS i would Read The
[4:55:34] Speaker 1: canaanites By Jonathan. TUBB i would read the archaeological books
[4:55:38] Speaker 1: By William. DEVERS i would read the archaeological Books unearthing
[4:55:42] Speaker 1: The bible By Israel. FINKELSTEIN i would also READ i
[4:55:48] Speaker 1: would also Read The Cosmic mountain By Roger. Roger what's
[4:55:54] Speaker 1: what's his first? Name last name Is, clifford what's His
[4:55:59] Speaker 1: richard There. A Richard clifford wrote a book Called The Cosmic.
[4:56:02] Speaker 1: Mountain duffy would give that a. READ i would also
[4:56:05] Speaker 1: read the books By MARK. S. Smith mark writes a
[4:56:09] Speaker 1: book Called where The Gods. Are he also writes a
[4:56:12] Speaker 1: book on the origins Of Biblical. MONOTHEISM i would read that.
[4:56:16] Speaker 1: One and then there's one other books By Mark. SMITH
[4:56:19] Speaker 1: i can't think of. THAT i would recommend those are
[4:56:20] Speaker 1: really good places to. START i think if you spent
[4:56:24] Speaker 1: a year going through those, books, man you would learn a.
[4:56:27] Speaker 1: Lot if you have a couple of books sitting around
[4:56:30] Speaker 1: and you really want to dig into more of a,
[4:56:33] Speaker 1: classic you can Do israelite In Judean history from The
[4:56:38] Speaker 1: Old Testament. Library it's a little bit dated at this,
[4:56:40] Speaker 1: point but it's full of good, documentation historical and archaeological. Data,
[4:56:46] Speaker 1: again it's Called israelite In Judean history in The Old Testament.
[4:56:49] Speaker 1: Library peter Says gospel writers are exegetical. Dropouts f after f,
[4:56:57] Speaker 1: OH i, know, listen The gospel writers took so many
[4:57:01] Speaker 1: el's LIKE i expect to find it missing from the.
[4:57:04] Speaker 1: Alphabet like they're just brain dead. Dummies godless, says we
[4:57:10] Speaker 1: get folks from sperm and, eggs but a biogenesis is
[4:57:15] Speaker 1: a bridge too. Far, yeah Isn't that's the crazy thing,
[4:57:17] Speaker 1: Actually but listen got to, remember in his, worldview either
[4:57:23] Speaker 1: the sperm or the, eggs none of that. Matters that
[4:57:26] Speaker 1: it's super complicated Because god did, magic, Right so in his,
[4:57:31] Speaker 1: worldview everything's just. Magic it doesn't matter how we can demonstrate. It.
[4:57:36] Speaker 1: Superhuman thank you for the ten THAT i was. Supertests
[4:57:38] Speaker 1: as Many christians, think raising a family is value taught
[4:57:42] Speaker 1: in the, faith but it seems That jesus And paul
[4:57:45] Speaker 1: were almost anti. Natalists jesus, says to hate your, Family
[4:57:49] Speaker 1: paul suggests not get. Married AM i off? Here? SO
[4:57:53] Speaker 1: i Think jesus And paul are doing two, things but
[4:57:56] Speaker 1: two sides of the same. Coin what they're suggesting is
[4:58:01] Speaker 1: you must abandon all for The, gospel even your own.
[4:58:05] Speaker 1: Family he, says he who puts his hand to the
[4:58:09] Speaker 1: plow and looks back is not worthy of. Me the
[4:58:13] Speaker 1: man who wanted to bury his own father his dead
[4:58:16] Speaker 1: father before going in and Following, jesus he, says let
[4:58:20] Speaker 1: the dead bury their, dead come and follow. Me he
[4:58:24] Speaker 1: instructed the young man to disrespect his own father to
[4:58:27] Speaker 1: come follow. Him god And paul are two, sides Or
[4:58:31] Speaker 1: jesus And paul are two sides of the same. Coin nothing,
[4:58:35] Speaker 1: matters not your, family not your own, life. Nothing the
[4:58:38] Speaker 1: only thing that matters is that you're a slave For. God,
[4:58:44] Speaker 1: eltine thank you so much for the fifty dollars super.
[4:58:47] Speaker 1: Chat that's, huge. FRIEND i appreciate, that says the plot.
[4:58:50] Speaker 1: Twist hymen's were different back, then but forty three percent
[4:58:53] Speaker 1: of women still didn't believe due to husband's lack of,
[4:58:56] Speaker 1: endowment and women were stone for exposing their. Smallness omni
[4:59:02] Speaker 1: benevolence is. Saved this is such A this is an interesting.
[4:59:10] Speaker 1: One if there was a reason to, Execute if there
[4:59:18] Speaker 1: was such a reason to, execute why's my screen doing
[4:59:21] Speaker 1: this weird? Thing hold, on it's happening with my. Picture
[4:59:25] Speaker 1: there we. Go if there was a reason to execute
[4:59:28] Speaker 1: these women is because they were. Ashamed nobody told them
[4:59:32] Speaker 1: about the shrinkage and now what are you gonna? Do
[4:59:37] Speaker 1: they saw, It they saw the. Shrinkage maryland, Says, king
[4:59:42] Speaker 1: good to see you, Again. Maryland thank you for being,
[4:59:44] Speaker 1: here thank you for supporting the, stream AND i appreciate the.
[4:59:48] Speaker 1: SEDIMENT i am more of a king Than jesus And
[4:59:52] Speaker 1: mike Old, newby thank you for the ten. Dollars Super
[4:59:54] Speaker 1: chest Says dave is like the last bingo game of the.
[4:59:58] Speaker 1: Night he covered all of his spots on THE dz bingo. Card, grape, yeah,
[5:00:03] Speaker 1: pivot dunt baby paste And hebrew. Himen he really. Did
[5:00:08] Speaker 1: he covered a lot of. Ground that's why we kept
[5:00:11] Speaker 1: him up for so long is because he just kept
[5:00:14] Speaker 1: he just kept prettling over and over again on the biblical.
[5:00:17] Speaker 1: TEXT i was, like how far is he getting? PRETZEL
[5:00:19] Speaker 1: i want to. Know pharah Says god's love equals graping
[5:00:22] Speaker 1: women and children for another's. Mistake, yeah that's. It, yeah
[5:00:28] Speaker 1: the Loving god is okay having women. Graped mardick, Says,
[5:00:33] Speaker 1: dave your brain is. Broken Poor. Jake Poor jake's never
[5:00:44] Speaker 1: gonna have his name. Remembered, geene think of. It the
[5:00:50] Speaker 1: ten hour Super jet says you need a super chat
[5:00:53] Speaker 1: super cut of callers Like jack And, dave which you
[5:00:57] Speaker 1: then just play wordlessly whenever you get some wine or
[5:01:03] Speaker 1: asking why don't you just mind your? Business this is
[5:01:06] Speaker 1: actually a good. Point i've got so much video content
[5:01:10] Speaker 1: THAT i am at a point WHERE i could make
[5:01:14] Speaker 1: a supercut of people just saying horrible, things AND i
[5:01:17] Speaker 1: want to do. IT i just haven't done it, yet
[5:01:19] Speaker 1: But i'm going to get it. Done. Eventually we'll make it.
[5:01:22] Speaker 1: Happen the problem, IS i still edit all of my own,
[5:01:24] Speaker 1: videos AND i live stream a. Lot i'm live like
[5:01:28] Speaker 1: twenty twenty five hours a, week if not. More. So
[5:01:32] Speaker 1: it's just hard to get time to do a lot
[5:01:34] Speaker 1: of editing like that because you got to search through
[5:01:36] Speaker 1: the video. Archive But i'll do WHAT i. Can i'll
[5:01:39] Speaker 1: certainly do WHAT i. Can, colton thinking for the Super, chest,
[5:01:43] Speaker 1: SAYS i wish your job wasn't, necessary BUT i appreciate
[5:01:46] Speaker 1: what you. DO i, Know, COLTON i wish it wasn't.
[5:01:47] Speaker 1: DUE i never THOUGHT i would be spending my time doing.
[5:01:51] Speaker 1: This i'm doing this because it's, necessary. Unfortunately And, colton,
[5:01:55] Speaker 1: again thank you for the ten. Dollars Super chest, Says
[5:01:57] Speaker 1: i'm looking forward to watching you on the. Line If, matt,
[5:02:00] Speaker 1: Yeah i'm super. Pumped mark The Calendar's august the, sixth
[5:02:05] Speaker 1: at seven Pm eastern. Centertime i'll be on the line
[5:02:08] Speaker 1: With Matt della, honey and uh we're gonna be. Cooking
[5:02:13] Speaker 1: it's be. Hot you've heard Of Bad, Cop Good, cop
[5:02:17] Speaker 1: it's gonna be Bad, cop Bad. Cop we're gonna fuck
[5:02:19] Speaker 1: some people, Up mike Says dave And jack, infuriating so
[5:02:24] Speaker 1: sad at the same, TIME i know it's hard to.
[5:02:27] Speaker 1: Watch it really. Is And vera, says with or without,
[5:02:32] Speaker 1: religion good people can behave well and bad people can do.
[5:02:36] Speaker 1: Evil but for good people to do, evil that takes. Religion, yeah,
[5:02:40] Speaker 1: yeah it's, True. Vera but for people to do truly horrific,
[5:02:44] Speaker 1: things even though they seem completely, normal you need A
[5:02:47] Speaker 1: god for. That you need divine command. Theory And aaron,
[5:02:51] Speaker 1: Says doug came to me in a vision and told
[5:02:54] Speaker 1: me to put WHATEVER i want on my hot. Dog
[5:02:56] Speaker 1: doug would do. That doug would not judge you for
[5:02:59] Speaker 1: putting up on your hot dog. Never, evan thank you
[5:03:04] Speaker 1: for the ten THAT i was Super chest, SAYS i
[5:03:05] Speaker 1: love your work too. Much i'm an Ex mormon for
[5:03:08] Speaker 1: about twelve years, now and those like you saved. Me
[5:03:11] Speaker 1: but you are the best of the. Rest Pray, Doug,
[5:03:15] Speaker 1: HEY i appreciate. THAT i don't know IF i am the,
[5:03:19] Speaker 1: best But i'm trying to. BE i want to be the.
[5:03:21] Speaker 1: BEST i want to be the best counter apologist. Possible
[5:03:25] Speaker 1: BECAUSE i think it's true AND i want to do
[5:03:28] Speaker 1: the best job THAT i, can no matter what that job.
[5:03:31] Speaker 1: Is And jem AND i good to see you. Again
[5:03:34] Speaker 1: it's been a. Minute thank you for The superjestys has
[5:03:36] Speaker 1: justin been told he looks like a Young Sean. Bean
[5:03:40] Speaker 1: doug clearly has his. FAVORITES i don't Who's Sean? Bean?
[5:03:44] Speaker 1: Shit AND i gotta look that. Up Sean bean, INTERESTING
[5:03:52] Speaker 1: i know the. Face i'm surprised That i've never been
[5:03:58] Speaker 1: compared To Sean bean. Before don't look. TERRIBLE i, mean
[5:04:01] Speaker 1: he's obviously better looking THAN i. Am, well thank, You
[5:04:03] Speaker 1: jem AND. I i'll show you Who Sean bean is
[5:04:04] Speaker 1: if it will pop. Up he's way better looking THAN i.
[5:04:09] Speaker 1: Am let's see what we. Got Here's Sean Bean. Bean
[5:04:14] Speaker 1: you've seen him. Before this guy, right this handsome feller. There,
[5:04:17] Speaker 1: yeah you guys know the. Guy we. Do actually we
[5:04:20] Speaker 1: don't look that terribly. Different, SHIT i never knew his name.
[5:04:27] Speaker 1: Anyways w, oh, well he's getting millions of, dollars so
[5:04:34] Speaker 1: he's got a really good skill.
[5:04:36] Speaker 2: Set.
[5:04:36] Speaker 1: Anyways, Uh, jmr thank you so so much for the
[5:04:40] Speaker 1: twenty dollars super. Chat that's. HUGE i appreciate, that says High.
[5:04:44] Speaker 1: Christians are you feeling down struggling with nice little? Questions
[5:04:48] Speaker 1: so for Another nigerian email, scam fear not try. Atheism
[5:04:53] Speaker 1: doug will guide you in all the ways you discovered
[5:04:56] Speaker 1: truth or always to discover. Truth no eternal punishment. Involve,
[5:05:00] Speaker 1: Never doug would never eternally punish, anybody not even with,
[5:05:03] Speaker 1: annihilation not even not even JAM. R thank you for
[5:05:09] Speaker 1: the super. Jet that's a good. ONE i am working
[5:05:11] Speaker 1: on a commercial to play While i'm on my urinary.
[5:05:14] Speaker 1: Breaks it's gonna be. Fun it's gonna be a lot of.
[5:05:17] Speaker 1: FUN i just need time to record it and make
[5:05:21] Speaker 1: videos for. It, skeptics thank you so so much for
[5:05:24] Speaker 1: the tend to our super chat. Is your recitation of
[5:05:29] Speaker 1: The David bathsheba tail made me, think what's worse Than
[5:05:33] Speaker 1: god unaliving an, infant torturing it for a, week and
[5:05:37] Speaker 1: then unliving. It christians have to defend the execution and the. Torture,
[5:05:42] Speaker 1: yeah SO i bring this. Up typically WHEN i addressed the,
[5:05:45] Speaker 1: Infant god didn't just. Execute he didn't just touch the
[5:05:48] Speaker 1: infant and poof it was. Gone he made it sick
[5:05:52] Speaker 1: and suffered for a. Week he didn't have to do that.
[5:05:54] Speaker 1: Shit he. Didn't what did that little infant do that
[5:05:57] Speaker 1: he had to suffer like? That it's. Crazy the one
[5:06:02] Speaker 1: who should have been killed Is. David god killed an
[5:06:07] Speaker 1: innocent child and raped innocent women because he's not a
[5:06:11] Speaker 1: god of. Justice, ridersia thank you for the ten that
[5:06:16] Speaker 1: oar super chest. Says A christian told me That paul
[5:06:18] Speaker 1: said That gentiles don't need to follow the old. Loss
[5:06:21] Speaker 1: is he? Right, well he's right That paul said. It
[5:06:24] Speaker 1: he's not right That paul's. Right paul's an absolute. Maniac paul's.
[5:06:29] Speaker 1: Insane paul says In ephesians chapter, two verses, thirteen, fourteen and,
[5:06:35] Speaker 1: fifteen that that is the. Case i'm black TO i
[5:06:38] Speaker 1: to show it to. You he says it In. Glatians,
[5:06:39] Speaker 1: well In, phesians he, says but now In Christ, jesus
[5:06:46] Speaker 1: you who once were far, off have been brought near
[5:06:49] Speaker 1: by the blood Of. Christ for he is our peace
[5:06:53] Speaker 1: in his. Flesh he has made both into one and
[5:06:55] Speaker 1: has broken down the dividing wall that is the hostility between,
[5:06:59] Speaker 1: us abolishing the law and its commandments and. Ordinances he
[5:07:04] Speaker 1: says something similar In galatians chapter, three verse twenty three Says,
[5:07:12] Speaker 1: now before faith, came we were imprisoned and guarded under
[5:07:16] Speaker 1: the law until faith would be. Revealed and he goes
[5:07:18] Speaker 1: on and does old diatribe in this chapter about how
[5:07:22] Speaker 1: the law has been done away. With it was a
[5:07:24] Speaker 1: temporary school. Master So paul does say. It he's just.
[5:07:29] Speaker 1: Wrong he's contradicting The god of The Old, Testament he's
[5:07:32] Speaker 1: contradicting The. Father it's just a. Contradiction, dakoda thank you
[5:07:37] Speaker 1: for the supertest Says, hi justin great. Stuff IF i
[5:07:39] Speaker 1: have a question for, you but it's not a, debate
[5:07:41] Speaker 1: is there a format place where it's appropriate to ask?
[5:07:45] Speaker 1: Us the discord server link is in my link, tree
[5:07:48] Speaker 1: in my profile or email. Me my email is. ATTACHED
[5:07:51] Speaker 1: i do check my discord in my email a couple
[5:07:53] Speaker 1: times a. Week keep in mind THAT i get a
[5:07:58] Speaker 1: fucking a lot of, messages SO i might not get
[5:08:00] Speaker 1: to you right, away BUT i try to get to
[5:08:02] Speaker 1: EVERYBODY i. CAN i apologize THAT i can't get to
[5:08:04] Speaker 1: everybody sooner than THAT i WISH i. Could, UNFORTUNATELY i
[5:08:09] Speaker 1: get a lot of, messages and like basically everybody in
[5:08:13] Speaker 1: this game gets That i'm not. Special once you get
[5:08:17] Speaker 1: any type of a following on the social. Media people
[5:08:20] Speaker 1: are clamoring to talk to you outside of social, media
[5:08:23] Speaker 1: AND i do provide a way for. That not everyone.
[5:08:25] Speaker 1: DOES i think it's. GOOD i want to know what
[5:08:28] Speaker 1: people in the community. THINK i want to know what they.
[5:08:31] Speaker 1: SAY i want to get the, critiques and the only
[5:08:34] Speaker 1: way to do that is by interacting with the people
[5:08:36] Speaker 1: in the. Community it just happens to be. There there's
[5:08:38] Speaker 1: a lot of, them BUT i love. THEM i love this.
[5:08:41] Speaker 1: Community And decal Says, Jack muslims will defend grape in their.
[5:08:45] Speaker 1: Book it's, disgusting proceeds to defend grape in his book
[5:08:48] Speaker 1: for a half. Hour, yeah that's the, case. Right it's.
[5:08:51] Speaker 1: Funny if you read this about any other god in
[5:08:54] Speaker 1: any other, book they tell you it's, Horrible but because
[5:08:56] Speaker 1: it's in their, book, now all of a, sudden it's.
[5:08:58] Speaker 1: Okay Keep snacks is damn still going strong tonight full
[5:09:04] Speaker 1: Of rocky The rocky. Spirit kudos, Sir, well thank, you Cheap.
[5:09:07] Speaker 1: SNACK i appreciate, it And i'm. Done i've got one
[5:09:10] Speaker 1: more Super chat and we're done for the. Night johnny
[5:09:13] Speaker 1: cakes his thoughts on the shroud Of. Train, yeah it's
[5:09:15] Speaker 1: a medieval. Forgery it's been carbondated to be from the midiview.
[5:09:20] Speaker 1: Period when it was, discovered the pope at the time
[5:09:23] Speaker 1: told you is, forgery literally told you where it came.
[5:09:26] Speaker 1: From it's made from a type of fiber fiber weave
[5:09:31] Speaker 1: that did not exist at the time Of. Jesus we
[5:09:35] Speaker 1: have no archaeological evidence that would suggest that it's older
[5:09:38] Speaker 1: than the medieval. Period we do have archaeological. Evidence we
[5:09:42] Speaker 1: have other shrouds from the time period that did. Survive
[5:09:46] Speaker 1: James tabor talks about one recently that you can compare it,
[5:09:49] Speaker 1: to and they're not even remotely the. Same the reality
[5:09:52] Speaker 1: is The shroud Of turin is just one in a
[5:09:54] Speaker 1: long line of fake. Relics The Holy foreskin Of jesus fake,
[5:10:00] Speaker 1: relic The Holy crown Of thorns fake, relic The Holy
[5:10:05] Speaker 1: sandals Of jesus fake, relic the splinters of The cross
[5:10:09] Speaker 1: that have been preserved fake relics for hundreds of. Years
[5:10:13] Speaker 1: people in The Christian church during a medieval period were
[5:10:16] Speaker 1: obsessed with. Relics they collected them ad. Nauseum there's no
[5:10:22] Speaker 1: end to the amount of relics out. There The shout
[5:10:24] Speaker 1: Of turnch just one of many. Relics the gospel says
[5:10:28] Speaker 1: that he had an individual covering for his head and
[5:10:31] Speaker 1: wrappings for the rest of his. Body it wasn't a
[5:10:34] Speaker 1: one piece, Thing so he wasn't wrapped up in multiple
[5:10:38] Speaker 1: pieces of. Linen if he was wrapped up in the
[5:10:40] Speaker 1: shroud Of turin when the disciples find him or didn't find,
[5:10:43] Speaker 1: him when they go to the tomb in The gospel
[5:10:45] Speaker 1: Of john and else, where they find strips of linen
[5:10:48] Speaker 1: and the separate, headcloth it was multiple. Linens it wasn't
[5:10:51] Speaker 1: one big. Piece this is. Ridiculous, anyways that's all for
[5:10:57] Speaker 1: tonight for the super. Chats i'm going to see who
[5:10:59] Speaker 1: is live right. Now i'm sure somebody is live right
[5:11:02] Speaker 1: now that we can go. Raid let me see who's
[5:11:05] Speaker 1: live right now that we can we can go dump
[5:11:08] Speaker 1: some viewers. On all, RIGHT i gotta log into the
[5:11:15] Speaker 1: right account real. Quick see who is? Live Is joel
[5:11:22] Speaker 1: live this time of? Night no? Way is he? Really let?
[5:11:27] Speaker 1: Me my internet is so SLOW i NEED i need
[5:11:30] Speaker 1: to restart my computer right. Now all. Right let me
[5:11:32] Speaker 1: see who's. Live, Well joel is live And thinkers. Live
[5:11:40] Speaker 1: they're both. Live all? Right this is gonna be a
[5:11:42] Speaker 1: late night. Special joel's never live this. LATE i don't
[5:11:45] Speaker 1: know what he's. Doing let's Go let's.
[5:11:47] Speaker 8: Go Give joel wrong, fourth they like to say from
[5:11:51] Speaker 8: a wet we gotta go Raid joel's live. Stream that's
[5:11:54] Speaker 8: gonna do a Midnight doug raid On joel's live. Stream,
[5:11:59] Speaker 8: guys this is gonna be. Awesome go Find Joel Reid's.
[5:12:03] Speaker 8: Bible Joel Reid's, bible, Friends let's go raid his live
[5:12:08] Speaker 8: stream Is joel Reads bible on. YouTube he's on TikTok as.
[5:12:12] Speaker 1: Well if YOU i don't know how anyone couldn't know
[5:12:15] Speaker 1: at this, point let's go raid the live. Stream tell
[5:12:17] Speaker 1: Them doug sent. You i'll meet you over there in
[5:12:20] Speaker 1: just a. Minute i'll be in the comments chirping along with. You.
[5:12:23] Speaker 1: Guys thank you so much for being, here. Friends thank
[5:12:26] Speaker 1: you for all the, likes thank you for all the,
[5:12:28] Speaker 1: shares thank you for all the, supers thank you for
[5:12:31] Speaker 1: all the. COMMENTS i really really appreciate.
[5:12:33] Speaker 2: It.
[5:12:33] Speaker 1: Friends it means the world to me that you support
[5:12:36] Speaker 1: my stream the way that you. Do, Anyways i'll see
[5:12:39] Speaker 1: you again tomorrow night and get some. Rest, friends

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