# 2025-05-02 LIVE DEBATE \[God is Imaginary\]

An episode of [Deconstruction Zone](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1837730286), 11 Sep 2025, 5 h 36 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/67727819/2025_05_02_20_00_23.mp3

Live debating every theist on the planet. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Get Member Perks: https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone/join https://patreon.com/Deconstruction_Zone --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUPPORT THE STREAM: https://venmo.com/u/JHCOFFEEFUND https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/JHCOFFEEFUND https://cash.app/$JHCOFFEEFUND --------------------------------------------------------------------- SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS: https://www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction.zone https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone https://www.youtube.com/@DZDebates https://www.twitch.tv/deconstructionzone_ https://www.instagram.com/deconstruction_zone/ https://clapperapp.com/Justin_DZ https://x.com/Justin_DZ_ https://discord.com/invite/WmeAmrhkxZ https://linktr.ee/justin_____ Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/deconstruction-zone--6451535/support.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Fire things up and running. We've got the TikTok stream
[0:03] Speaker 1: up for sure. I think the YouTube stream is up now.
[0:07] Speaker 1: I double checked the YouTube's connected and we should be
[0:11] Speaker 1: connected on Facebook and Twitch.
[0:15] Speaker 2: There we go.
[0:15] Speaker 1: I think we're we're good to go now. All right,
[0:17] Speaker 1: thank you guys for being here. I know it's a
[0:20] Speaker 1: little bit later than usual, but I was traveling home
[0:23] Speaker 1: today from a job site and so I couldn't get
[0:28] Speaker 1: here at my usual time. But thanks for being here
[0:31] Speaker 1: for the late session. I really appreciate that. And we
[0:35] Speaker 1: had an interesting session two on Wednesday night from the
[0:38] Speaker 1: hotel room. Could have gone worse, actually, I think it
[0:41] Speaker 1: did okay despite the difference in technology. So thanks for
[0:46] Speaker 1: being there. And also we've got some new members to
[0:49] Speaker 1: the Crack and Crew Elite. Hell yeah, DJ, welcome to
[0:52] Speaker 1: the Crack and Crew Elite. You should have a link
[0:55] Speaker 1: to the deconstruction cheat sheet and same for you. M
[0:58] Speaker 1: one K three Welcome to the Crack and Crew Elite.
[1:01] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being a member, and you
[1:04] Speaker 1: also have access to the chat she and welcome in
[1:07] Speaker 1: everyone else. I see doctor Joe's in the house collects
[1:10] Speaker 1: with us. We got a bunch of the crew in
[1:14] Speaker 1: the house. Bad religions with us. Good to see a
[1:16] Speaker 1: bad religion. Thank you so much for the handhearts. I
[1:18] Speaker 1: appreciate that. And whiskey, punch and loan. Thank you so
[1:21] Speaker 1: much for the gifts, and thank you for being here.
[1:25] Speaker 1: It should be a lot of fun tonight. You know,
[1:26] Speaker 1: we're just doing the tried and true topic, the typical,
[1:30] Speaker 1: the typical live stream topic. Let me grab my guest box,
[1:34] Speaker 1: make sure my guest box is actually open, so we
[1:37] Speaker 1: can get some guests in here, and then we'll do
[1:41] Speaker 1: what we can. All right, we've got one guest already.
[1:44] Speaker 1: Let me bring in our guests. The name says boodha Win,
[1:49] Speaker 1: maybe in in parentheses. If you can pronounce that, I
[1:53] Speaker 1: don't know if I can pronounce it. I certainly we'll
[1:56] Speaker 1: give it my best try. But booda Win, can you
[1:59] Speaker 1: hear me? Let me no, actually, let me see if
[2:02] Speaker 1: I've even got this set up right to get the
[2:06] Speaker 1: guests in here. I don't. I don't one second. I apologize.
[2:17] Speaker 1: There we go try that. Maybe I got him in here,
[2:27] Speaker 1: darn it, I gotta get my guest box working correctly.
[2:31] Speaker 1: We got a Joel Raid. Welcome in, guys. I appreciate
[2:34] Speaker 1: the raid. I'm just getting the first guest pulled in.
[2:37] Speaker 1: We've got a guest over on video Ninja. Give me
[2:42] Speaker 1: just a moment, I apologize, and I'll have the guests
[2:44] Speaker 1: pulled over from video Ninja. I just got to fix
[2:49] Speaker 1: my link real quick. I can't spell. I missed an
[2:52] Speaker 1: eye in deconstruction. There we go, deconstruction zone. Now let's
[2:58] Speaker 1: see if the link works. We will see. Well, I
[3:03] Speaker 1: don't think it did work. Actually, there we go. Now
[3:05] Speaker 1: it's working. We should be. It should be working now.
[3:09] Speaker 1: And uh, bootle Win, I don't I don't know if
[3:13] Speaker 1: you're if your technology is working. But I've got I've
[3:17] Speaker 1: got you pulled into the to the scene. Let me
[3:22] Speaker 1: know if you can hear me. I can see your screen.
[3:24] Speaker 1: I can't hear anything you're saying. If you're talking. I'm
[3:27] Speaker 1: going to open up the chat window. You can chat
[3:30] Speaker 1: me if if there's a problem, I'm going I'm gonna
[3:36] Speaker 1: send you a message saying I can't hear you. I
[3:39] Speaker 1: don't think anyone can hear the guests. As far as
[3:41] Speaker 1: I can tell, I can't hear the guests. You guys
[3:42] Speaker 1: can't hear the guests. So I'm not sure what's going
[3:48] Speaker 1: on with our guests, but having a little trouble here
[3:50] Speaker 1: with the guest audio. Let me check one thing. We'll see,
[3:58] Speaker 1: we'll see. We'll see one thing. One second. Let me
[4:01] Speaker 1: see if there's a situation going on here. What we
[4:06] Speaker 1: get for using technology? Okay, what about that? No anything,
[4:13] Speaker 1: I don't think the guest technology is working. If I
[4:15] Speaker 1: had to take a guess, he says, I have set
[4:20] Speaker 1: it up previously. Let me reconnect, all right, yeah, go
[4:23] Speaker 1: ahead and reconnect and see what happens. Come on back. Anyways,
[4:26] Speaker 1: the guestbox on TikTok and YouTube are open. You can
[4:28] Speaker 1: join on TikTok. We're on the usual account tonight, so
[4:32] Speaker 1: we can take guests over TikTok and we can take
[4:35] Speaker 1: guests over our third party source like we've been doing.
[4:38] Speaker 1: And Higgs, welcome to the Crack and Crew Elite. Big
[4:41] Speaker 1: W thank you for joining, and also Small Johnson in
[4:44] Speaker 1: the house gifting out five Deconstruction Zone memberships. Big W
[4:49] Speaker 1: on the five cent piece. I appreciate that, Small Johnson.
[4:51] Speaker 1: That's very generous. And we've got Silver Surfer with us
[4:54] Speaker 1: tonight as well. Silver Surfer, thank you so much for
[4:56] Speaker 1: the nine to ninety nine. Super thanks. I really appreciate that.
[5:00] Speaker 1: And I know it's kind of a late start to
[5:01] Speaker 1: the to the stream tonight, but we're gonna we're gonna
[5:04] Speaker 1: get it going, you know what I mean? And con
[5:06] Speaker 1: thank you so much for becoming a member of the
[5:09] Speaker 1: crack and crew, Big big w All right, so we've
[5:12] Speaker 1: got got the guest back with us. One second, okay,
[5:19] Speaker 1: what about now? Not so much? Let me try one thing.
[5:25] Speaker 1: One second. I'm gonna try one thing and see if
[5:28] Speaker 1: this sticks. Is it? I'm gonna restart the now I'm
[5:42] Speaker 1: added in the scene. Can can you hear me? I
[5:45] Speaker 1: still can't hear you. If you're talking, I can't hear you.
[5:49] Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Are my headphones even on? Let me
[5:51] Speaker 1: check my headphones maybe with my problem? No, my headphones
[5:54] Speaker 1: are on. Let me let me double check with Oh,
[5:58] Speaker 1: we had a guest on TikTok. I don't know what's
[6:01] Speaker 1: going on with your set up there, bedouin download TikTok
[6:05] Speaker 1: and get a free kind of TikTok and joined that way.
[6:07] Speaker 1: Since your hardware doesn't seem to be functioning properly, I
[6:10] Speaker 1: don't know what else to tell you. It's weird that
[6:14] Speaker 1: he said he was here once before. But oh, well,
[6:20] Speaker 1: how you doing, dark.
[6:23] Speaker 2: Doing pretty good.
[6:23] Speaker 1: I just wanted to see if you could hear me,
[6:25] Speaker 1: just to help you out with the test.
[6:27] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[6:27] Speaker 1: I'm actually really glad you did, because I was curious.
[6:29] Speaker 1: I was like, shit, are my headphone's not working right?
[6:31] Speaker 3: But no, I can hear you just fine, Okay, perfect, man,
[6:35] Speaker 3: I'll drop.
[6:35] Speaker 2: I just wanted to help you out with that.
[6:37] Speaker 1: Good to hear from your friend. Also, guys, if you
[6:39] Speaker 1: don't already follow Dark Night, make sure you do.
[6:43] Speaker 2: Uh.
[6:43] Speaker 1: He's a part of the deconstruction debate community as well,
[6:46] Speaker 1: and so we want to make sure that we're all
[6:49] Speaker 1: supporting each other. Good to see you tonight, man.
[6:51] Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Yeah, I'm glad to see you.
[6:53] Speaker 4: And then I was a little disappointed that you've been
[6:56] Speaker 4: a a I you know, am I a little bit man.
[6:58] Speaker 5: But it's all good to call your job and report
[7:01] Speaker 5: them and be like, yo, don't take justin from us anymore.
[7:04] Speaker 2: Okay.
[7:04] Speaker 1: I'm sure they'll respond well to that, all right in truth?
[7:10] Speaker 2: Man.
[7:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's the problem with work. It's always getting
[7:14] Speaker 1: in a way of my non work life, you know
[7:16] Speaker 1: what I mean. I don't know why they keep doing that.
[7:17] Speaker 1: You think they just start paying me for not showing up,
[7:21] Speaker 1: But apparently that's not the way the world works yet. Anyways,
[7:26] Speaker 1: we don't have any guests yet, so let me grab
[7:28] Speaker 1: a couple of super chats and we'll get a guest
[7:30] Speaker 1: in here. No apology for truth. This should be interesting, says.
[7:33] Speaker 1: If God created the tree of good and evil and
[7:36] Speaker 1: Eve ate the fruit, doesn't that mean that our knowledge
[7:39] Speaker 1: of good and evil is the same as God's. Actually, yeah,
[7:41] Speaker 1: not only is that what has means, but that's what
[7:44] Speaker 1: the text says in Genesis chapter three, verse twenty two.
[7:48] Speaker 1: After they eat the fruit, what does God say? Because
[7:51] Speaker 1: God says, man has become like one of us. In fact,
[7:53] Speaker 1: I'll put it on the screen real quick. So what
[7:57] Speaker 1: it says is there you go. The Lord God said, See,
[8:02] Speaker 1: the humans have become like one of us, knowing good
[8:05] Speaker 1: and evil, and now they might reach out their hands
[8:08] Speaker 1: to take also from the true of life. So I mean,
[8:10] Speaker 1: according to the book, I mean humans know what good
[8:13] Speaker 1: and evil is like. That's just it seems to be
[8:16] Speaker 1: like some innate sense that had been put inside of us.
[8:19] Speaker 1: And mister mister, thank you so much for the chat. Says,
[8:22] Speaker 1: thoughts on the double slit experiment. I mean that's a
[8:26] Speaker 1: very open ended question. Can you be more specific? I
[8:29] Speaker 1: mean I have a lot of thoughts on it. You know.
[8:31] Speaker 1: The first thing that comes to mind whenever I hear
[8:33] Speaker 1: the double split experiment is that Christians have literally no
[8:37] Speaker 1: idea what this experiment is referring to, and they try
[8:41] Speaker 1: to misuse it as part of their like quantum woo nonsense,
[8:45] Speaker 1: and they don't realize what the double slit experiment is
[8:48] Speaker 1: actually doing. But that being said, like I don't maybe
[8:52] Speaker 1: if you could get asked me a specific question, I
[8:54] Speaker 1: could maybe fill in some gaps for you. Welcome to
[8:57] Speaker 1: the Crack and Crew Elite, Tommy, thank you for joining
[9:01] Speaker 1: and act me with us tonight. Thank you so much
[9:03] Speaker 1: acting me hero says, rock with doug all night, dance
[9:06] Speaker 1: into the Sunlight. I like that.
[9:08] Speaker 2: I like that.
[9:08] Speaker 1: That's a good little tune there. We're gonna be doing
[9:11] Speaker 1: some We're gonna be doing some Dougie tonight. Friends, We're
[9:13] Speaker 1: gonna be doing some Douggie. Thank you for the super
[9:16] Speaker 1: track me and it looks what we've got. It's it's life,
[9:20] Speaker 1: you know, how you doing life? I'm good? How about
[9:24] Speaker 1: you doing good? Thank you for asking life. Are you
[9:27] Speaker 1: at least eighteen in Are you a believer? Yes? I'm
[9:32] Speaker 1: both cool? And which God do you believe in? I
[9:36] Speaker 1: believe in the God of the Bible. Cool and would
[9:40] Speaker 1: be the most compelling evidence or argument for the Bible
[9:43] Speaker 1: God being real.
[9:45] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[9:46] Speaker 1: So first I would like to ask you a question.
[9:49] Speaker 1: Do you think it's.
[9:50] Speaker 2: Really weird that you.
[9:52] Speaker 1: Is it pretending to the question that I ask you?
[9:56] Speaker 6: No, I just want to get your h I believe
[9:59] Speaker 6: off of this, So you don't want you don't want
[10:03] Speaker 6: to engage in my question?
[10:05] Speaker 1: No, No, it will It will lead back to it.
[10:07] Speaker 1: I think maybe maybe.
[10:09] Speaker 6: Okay, Yeah, I just wanted to ask you this questionlessly
[10:14] Speaker 6: and then we can talk about it. But I don't
[10:16] Speaker 6: know how I would add it in later. But if
[10:20] Speaker 6: all the problems that you had with there being a god,
[10:22] Speaker 6: like the pain and suffering we see in the world,
[10:25] Speaker 6: kind of the inconsistencies we see like natural disasters taking place,
[10:30] Speaker 6: if there was no natural disasters, if there is no
[10:32] Speaker 6: pain in suffering, would you then believe that there could
[10:35] Speaker 6: be a gun?
[10:36] Speaker 2: No?
[10:37] Speaker 1: No, oh, you would still say no. I would still
[10:41] Speaker 1: need evidence.
[10:44] Speaker 6: Oh uh, I mean I'm just saying, like, in any
[10:50] Speaker 6: possible universe, could.
[10:52] Speaker 1: There be a god? In your mind?
[10:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
[10:55] Speaker 1: Now that there's possible that there's a universe that has
[10:58] Speaker 1: some kind of a god, depending on how you just it.
[11:00] Speaker 1: But again, I would need evidence to believe that that
[11:03] Speaker 1: god existed.
[11:06] Speaker 6: Okay, so do most Do you know if most atheists
[11:08] Speaker 6: when they say that there is no God are either
[11:11] Speaker 6: referring to any in any possible universes or just the
[11:14] Speaker 6: one that we're kind of living.
[11:15] Speaker 1: The only one we know of, which is the one
[11:18] Speaker 1: we're living in. And I don't know how other atheists
[11:20] Speaker 1: like to use words. I can only tell you how
[11:22] Speaker 1: I like to use words, and I carefully crafted my statement,
[11:26] Speaker 1: which is that your God is imaginary. It could be
[11:29] Speaker 1: that there's some weird, deistic god that just kicked everything
[11:31] Speaker 1: in the motion and he's kind of like, you know,
[11:34] Speaker 1: a little bit of a sadist and likes to like
[11:36] Speaker 1: watch the world burn. That sure could be a possibility.
[11:39] Speaker 1: I see no evidence for it, but it certainly could
[11:41] Speaker 1: be a possibility. But your God is not possible.
[11:45] Speaker 6: Okay, So when people say that they're atheists in here,
[11:50] Speaker 6: you would consider yourself an atheist right.
[11:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, nature is that one who lacks a belief in God.
[11:56] Speaker 6: Okay, So that doesn't mean that there is no possibility
[11:59] Speaker 6: for God. You just don't believe in one.
[12:01] Speaker 1: As of now, atheism is not a claim about God.
[12:03] Speaker 1: It's a state of belief. It's the current state of belief. Okay.
[12:09] Speaker 6: Because I'm always getting confused when people say that they're
[12:11] Speaker 6: atheists or agnostic, Well, well, they're.
[12:15] Speaker 1: Two related but slightly different things. Like you can be
[12:18] Speaker 1: an agnostic atheist. An agnostic atheist is someone who doesn't know,
[12:22] Speaker 1: they don't have knowledge about a God, but they also
[12:27] Speaker 1: don't believe in a God. It's two separate statements even
[12:31] Speaker 1: though they sound similar. Okay, I think I get it.
[12:36] Speaker 6: I don't think I have too good of arguments for
[12:38] Speaker 6: the existence of the God of the Bible. I would
[12:41] Speaker 6: say that the best argument I have, which is not
[12:43] Speaker 6: really put together at all, it's just some of the
[12:46] Speaker 6: universal constance that we see in the world thirty plus
[12:49] Speaker 6: universal constance is any of them changed by slight factors
[12:52] Speaker 6: in life would cease to exist. So the argument, yeah,
[12:56] Speaker 6: I don't think that could be possible with a mere
[12:58] Speaker 6: random explosion.
[12:59] Speaker 2: Why not?
[12:59] Speaker 6: I mean could say the law of infinite after don't
[13:02] Speaker 6: know what the law is called.
[13:03] Speaker 2: Why not?
[13:04] Speaker 6: But why can't that be possible? Why can't that? I
[13:08] Speaker 6: mean it could be possible, I don't think it could
[13:10] Speaker 6: be probable.
[13:10] Speaker 1: Why not?
[13:13] Speaker 6: Because I think that in some ways, once you get
[13:15] Speaker 6: past the realm of possibility, it turns against probable outcome.
[13:20] Speaker 1: Possibility of what.
[13:23] Speaker 6: Yeah, So I just think that if we think of
[13:26] Speaker 6: things that we see in.
[13:27] Speaker 1: The earth and thank you for the galaxy. So, like,
[13:30] Speaker 1: young man, I don't know what your name is, But
[13:32] Speaker 1: like when I ask you like very specific questions, I'm
[13:35] Speaker 1: not asking you to ignore my question and then keep
[13:37] Speaker 1: going with your talking points like I'm asking you clarifying.
[13:41] Speaker 1: I'm asking you clarifying questions about your position. So the
[13:45] Speaker 1: way conversations work is like you asked me a question,
[13:47] Speaker 1: I answer, I ask you a question, you answer.
[13:49] Speaker 6: So like I was trying to answer, you just talked
[13:52] Speaker 6: about the probability of it happened, and I was trying
[13:53] Speaker 6: to relate it to something right, because I couldn't.
[13:55] Speaker 1: Give the probability of what happening.
[14:00] Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm saying the probability of us coming into existence.
[14:03] Speaker 1: From America production. Now do you know how probabilities work
[14:10] Speaker 1: to a certain extent. Right, So probabilities work, and they're
[14:14] Speaker 1: more important when you actually have a goal in mind.
[14:17] Speaker 1: Like so if I took a deck of fifty two
[14:19] Speaker 1: cards and I said, I'm going to give you the
[14:21] Speaker 1: exact order that I'm going to throw these cards down in,
[14:24] Speaker 1: and if those cards land on the floor and they're
[14:27] Speaker 1: in that exact order, that is like the most statistically
[14:31] Speaker 1: improbable thing that could literally ever happen. It just is
[14:35] Speaker 1: mathematically impossible. But that's only true because I set the
[14:40] Speaker 1: goal in my head ahead of time. I said, the
[14:42] Speaker 1: goal is to have this particular order. And that's the
[14:46] Speaker 1: problem with a fine tuning argument is you're presupposing that
[14:49] Speaker 1: the universe has a goal of creating life. It doesn't.
[14:53] Speaker 1: The universe doesn't have any goals. It just happened to
[14:55] Speaker 1: be a consequence of the universe existing. And how do
[14:59] Speaker 1: you know that because we have no evidence of the contrary.
[15:02] Speaker 1: Do you have evidence that there's a goal setter?
[15:07] Speaker 6: Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious, you and I having
[15:09] Speaker 6: a conversation right now, you and not having a hope, streams, visions, passions.
[15:12] Speaker 6: I think all of these things are good evidence too.
[15:15] Speaker 1: But we don't create universes. But we don't create universes. Okay, then.
[15:24] Speaker 6: I'm saying that, like, I don't understand this logically speaking.
[15:28] Speaker 6: If there is something like you and I and we
[15:30] Speaker 6: have purpose in this universe supposedly came about by accident,
[15:35] Speaker 6: you and I would never exist because we are purpose.
[15:39] Speaker 1: No, so nothing.
[15:40] Speaker 6: So you're saying that non important things create important things.
[15:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, because importance is an abstract concept, Like we decide
[15:48] Speaker 1: what importance is.
[15:52] Speaker 6: So okay, I'm also curious. I'm just not really sure
[15:57] Speaker 6: how that makes any sense. I think that a lot
[15:59] Speaker 6: of the time people will say anything and everything that
[16:02] Speaker 6: doesn't even necessarily make sense, just because is it important
[16:05] Speaker 6: to brush your hair?
[16:08] Speaker 1: Is it important to brush your hair? Yeah? I think so.
[16:12] Speaker 1: Yeah I don't. I haven't brushed my hair in probably
[16:15] Speaker 1: three decades. See, it's so importance is subjective. It's something
[16:20] Speaker 1: we make up. It's an abstract concept. We decide what
[16:23] Speaker 1: we think is important.
[16:26] Speaker 6: I think that every human species would think that we
[16:30] Speaker 6: are important species compared to other human species.
[16:33] Speaker 1: Yeah. I think we think we're important because we're the
[16:37] Speaker 1: center of our own attention. But the universe doesn't think
[16:40] Speaker 1: we're important. The universe doesn't give a shit about us.
[16:42] Speaker 1: Our galaxy is going to collide with the Andromeda galaxy,
[16:45] Speaker 1: but not before the Sun gets so big that it
[16:47] Speaker 1: swallows up our solar system. And you really believe that
[16:52] Speaker 1: when is that supposed to happen? The Sun's going to
[16:55] Speaker 1: swallow up Earth in like a billion years. The collision
[16:58] Speaker 1: with the Andromaic galaxy isn't for like another amount of
[17:02] Speaker 1: four billion years.
[17:03] Speaker 6: The amount of faith that you put in science, I
[17:05] Speaker 6: think is to some extent greater than the faith that
[17:08] Speaker 6: I have in believing in God. Disagree, is going to
[17:11] Speaker 6: swallow itself up in one billion You realize how long
[17:15] Speaker 6: one billion years is.
[17:16] Speaker 1: Do you know how the Sun works? Do you know
[17:19] Speaker 1: how sons work? How sons work?
[17:23] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[17:23] Speaker 1: Do you like you know that stars don't stay the
[17:25] Speaker 1: same size throughout their life cycle?
[17:28] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[17:29] Speaker 1: But I don't think that's that's a prediction that scientists are.
[17:32] Speaker 1: Oh that's right, Yeah, you don't. You don't believe in science?
[17:34] Speaker 1: What shape is the Earth? Per flat? There we go,
[17:40] Speaker 1: I do it. I'm just I'm just oking. I mean
[17:44] Speaker 1: that would be a rational response for somebody in your religion. Yeah,
[17:49] Speaker 1: I don't think it's flat. Okay, so you do believe
[17:52] Speaker 1: some science, the science you like.
[17:57] Speaker 6: I think that some science is necessary his life. I
[18:01] Speaker 6: do think that science is a way of just proving
[18:03] Speaker 6: the existence of a God, and they'll try every avenue possible.
[18:06] Speaker 1: Yet every time we make a scientific advancement, the answer
[18:12] Speaker 1: is not a God did it never. In fact, the
[18:15] Speaker 1: more we learn about the universe, the more like believers
[18:18] Speaker 1: of God have to make their God more invisible and
[18:21] Speaker 1: more like far away. Like a couple of thousand years ago,
[18:25] Speaker 1: the gods were like just up in the sky. They
[18:27] Speaker 1: were just like hanging out above us. And then like
[18:30] Speaker 1: we we got mountaintops and we explored the skies, We're like,
[18:33] Speaker 1: oh shit, like, well they're they're not here. They got
[18:36] Speaker 1: to be somewhere else, and they just keep pushing them
[18:37] Speaker 1: out further and further until now they're like completely illogical, immaterial, timeless,
[18:43] Speaker 1: spaceless entities.
[18:46] Speaker 6: I mean, I think that you would agree that that's
[18:48] Speaker 6: kind of the only thing that would make sense for
[18:50] Speaker 6: something that exist outside of time in order to create
[18:53] Speaker 6: I think in time.
[18:54] Speaker 2: I disagree.
[18:55] Speaker 1: I think existing outside of time is impossible. I don't
[18:58] Speaker 1: think anything can exist without time.
[19:03] Speaker 6: Okay, and then you but you believe that the universe
[19:05] Speaker 6: is eternal, which is also impossible.
[19:08] Speaker 1: It's not. Okay, cantie, tell me something else. That's what's
[19:13] Speaker 1: the well, the universe. What's the evidence that the universe
[19:16] Speaker 1: once didn't exist?
[19:19] Speaker 6: Because everything that things that began to exist, things that exist, Uh.
[19:28] Speaker 1: Premise number one of the column. You can do it.
[19:32] Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't really know what it is. But things
[19:35] Speaker 6: that began to exist have a beginning or something like that.
[19:38] Speaker 1: Well, I mean that's just definitionly true that things that
[19:41] Speaker 1: have a beginning have a beginning. I'm asking you what's
[19:44] Speaker 1: the evidence that the universe did not exist, that there
[19:47] Speaker 1: was absolutely nothing? Because I think that that is just
[19:56] Speaker 1: because it's devastating to my case, your honor, sorry, because
[20:00] Speaker 1: that's just common.
[20:00] Speaker 6: Sense that things that exist had to have had a beginning.
[20:04] Speaker 1: No, that's what we see. I don't agree. I don't
[20:06] Speaker 1: think it's coming with us.
[20:08] Speaker 6: Okay, then tell me one other thing that's not like that, please,
[20:10] Speaker 6: Literally the entire universe, The entire universe contains everything. Thank
[20:17] Speaker 6: you for the jewelry, by the way. And where's there's
[20:21] Speaker 6: evidence in universe?
[20:23] Speaker 1: Well, the evidence is that the universe exists and that
[20:26] Speaker 1: matter can't be created nor destroyed. Same with energy. Energy
[20:29] Speaker 1: can't be created or destroyed. So we have two laws
[20:33] Speaker 1: of physics that agree with me, and I think it's
[20:35] Speaker 1: just logically true. We can do a simple syllogism. Premise
[20:38] Speaker 1: number one, you can't get something from nothing, right, you
[20:44] Speaker 1: can't get something from nothing? I agree, okay, and we
[20:47] Speaker 1: have something. That's why I think it's hold on, hold on,
[20:52] Speaker 1: because just stop stop spiraling. Okay. Premise number one, you
[20:57] Speaker 1: can't get something from nothing. Premisse number too is we
[21:00] Speaker 1: have something, yeah, okay. Then the conclusion is that there
[21:07] Speaker 1: was never nothing, yeah, which is an eternal god. Right, yeah,
[21:13] Speaker 1: but I have evidence for the eternal universe. You don't
[21:15] Speaker 1: have any evidence for the eternal god. And your god
[21:17] Speaker 1: doesn't actually solve any problems.
[21:21] Speaker 6: But don't you think it's a bit interesting how everything
[21:23] Speaker 6: was pointing to the start of the universe and now
[21:26] Speaker 6: that they realized that the start of the universe kind
[21:28] Speaker 6: of does point to something external of the universe because
[21:31] Speaker 6: nothing cannot come from nothing. Now it's heading towards the
[21:33] Speaker 6: direction of everything being an eternal which still does away
[21:37] Speaker 6: with the fact that there could be a creator.
[21:39] Speaker 1: Not even close. In fact, the state of the current
[21:42] Speaker 1: field of physics doesn't make a definitive statement about what
[21:45] Speaker 1: happened prior to the Big Bang, just that there was
[21:48] Speaker 1: something before the Big Bang. We just don't know what
[21:51] Speaker 1: was before the Big Bang. Now, if you're going to
[21:53] Speaker 1: posit that there was a god before the Big Bang,
[21:55] Speaker 1: you would still need evidence of the god. But it
[21:58] Speaker 1: sounds like you don't have any. Mm.
[22:03] Speaker 6: I already told you what my evidence was.
[22:05] Speaker 1: I think that personal incredulity. What was that personal incredulity? Yeah,
[22:15] Speaker 1: that's your complication. But yeah, sure, okay, I mean I
[22:20] Speaker 1: think that's pretty common.
[22:21] Speaker 6: Even the even the biggest people who didn't believe in
[22:24] Speaker 6: a gods, is that the best case for their being
[22:26] Speaker 6: a god was mm hmm.
[22:30] Speaker 1: That's teleological. I think it's called argument. I'm familiar with
[22:33] Speaker 1: that one too. I think that fails. And here's the
[22:36] Speaker 1: problem with all like these really silly fine tuning arguments
[22:40] Speaker 1: is that you like, as soon as I start looking
[22:43] Speaker 1: at the earth for this fine tuning, you're gonna tell
[22:45] Speaker 1: me that God like shit the bed. So when I
[22:48] Speaker 1: talk about things like natural disasters, I'm gonna say this
[22:52] Speaker 1: is evidence of nonfine tuning, an all knowing, all loving
[22:57] Speaker 1: all powerful creator that created a habitat for his his
[23:00] Speaker 1: humans that he loves, is just like randomly executing one
[23:04] Speaker 1: hundred thousand of them a year using natural disasters. This
[23:08] Speaker 1: is not fine tuning. Yeah, that does make sense.
[23:13] Speaker 2: I just.
[23:16] Speaker 6: Artist look around me, and I think that there's just
[23:20] Speaker 6: no way you can explain it away through science. I
[23:23] Speaker 6: don't think that there ever is going to be a
[23:25] Speaker 6: truly good explanation that needs how we came about. I
[23:30] Speaker 6: don't think that there ever is going to be a
[23:31] Speaker 6: truly satisfying answer, Like I don't think that even for yourself,
[23:36] Speaker 6: for you think, yeah, I mean, if you're being honest
[23:39] Speaker 6: with yourself too, you don't think that any turn.
[23:42] Speaker 2: Now you're.
[23:44] Speaker 1: You're you're reading my mind. So I would just say,
[23:46] Speaker 1: what's your name, young man, My name Bezy coneus Bez.
[23:54] Speaker 1: Deep down inside you know that there's no God and
[23:57] Speaker 1: you're just lying to us and there could be no no, no,
[24:02] Speaker 1: you're lying to us right now. Deep down inside you
[24:04] Speaker 1: know that there's no God. Well, that's not That's not
[24:07] Speaker 1: the same thing I was saying to you. It's the
[24:09] Speaker 1: same thing you're saying. No, that's not. Yeah, you're saying
[24:13] Speaker 1: that I'm up here saying that I have beliefs that
[24:15] Speaker 1: are contrary to the words that are coming out of
[24:17] Speaker 1: my mouth. You're calling me a liar. You're just doing
[24:20] Speaker 1: it by circling the wagons around the issue, and I'm
[24:23] Speaker 1: doing it directly. I'm just saying you're a liar because
[24:25] Speaker 1: that's what you're doing. You just don't realize it.
[24:28] Speaker 6: No, I would say that it's satisfying for me to
[24:31] Speaker 6: believe in a god, but it's not truely satisfying, and
[24:33] Speaker 6: it doesn't answer all my deep down questions. What I
[24:36] Speaker 6: was saying was, I don't think that there's ever going
[24:38] Speaker 6: to be an answer that comes within the scientific community
[24:41] Speaker 6: or a belief that truly, deep down answers all of
[24:44] Speaker 6: your questions about how the world came to be. And
[24:46] Speaker 6: I think that's the purpose of why people spend countless
[24:49] Speaker 6: time and.
[24:50] Speaker 1: I don't have questions about how the world came to be?
[24:53] Speaker 2: It did it is?
[24:55] Speaker 1: It didn't come to be, it always has been.
[24:57] Speaker 6: And when did you start believing in the internal?
[25:00] Speaker 2: Oh?
[25:01] Speaker 6: Shit, probably eight years ago, Okay, exactly, That's what I'm saying.
[25:06] Speaker 6: This isn't generally that.
[25:11] Speaker 1: It's almost it's almost a quarter of my life a quarter,
[25:19] Speaker 1: and for the first ten years I didn't have the
[25:21] Speaker 1: cognitive abilities to worry about this kind of stuff. So
[25:24] Speaker 1: now we're talking about roughly a third of my life
[25:27] Speaker 1: or so.
[25:28] Speaker 6: So I then I'll just I won't assume, I'll ask you,
[25:31] Speaker 6: do you think that the evidence for an eternal universe
[25:36] Speaker 6: truly leaves you satisfied and fully believing that the universe
[25:39] Speaker 6: is eternal?
[25:39] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[25:40] Speaker 1: If I didn't believe it, I wouldn't tell you. I'd
[25:42] Speaker 1: tell you what I actually believed.
[25:44] Speaker 6: But no one believes in things with one hundred percent certainty.
[25:47] Speaker 1: No, I don't think that we can know things with
[25:49] Speaker 1: one hundred percent certainty. I think there's always room for
[25:52] Speaker 1: error because humans are prone to error. But that being said,
[25:56] Speaker 1: my level of confidence is as high as it could be.
[26:00] Speaker 6: So, and it's also interesting that you always say that
[26:02] Speaker 6: for me that I don't believe in science, and I
[26:05] Speaker 6: would say that the majority of sciences probably does not
[26:08] Speaker 6: point in the direction of an eternity universe.
[26:10] Speaker 1: The majority of scientists would name one piece of science
[26:14] Speaker 1: that suggests the universe once didn't.
[26:16] Speaker 6: Exist, that it came into existence.
[26:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, name one piece of science that demonstrates that it
[26:23] Speaker 1: once did not exist. I think the Big Bang. The
[26:28] Speaker 1: bank doesn't point.
[26:29] Speaker 6: To that, Okay, but you realize that scientists at one point,
[26:36] Speaker 6: not too long ago, believe that the Big Bang was
[26:38] Speaker 6: the start of the universe.
[26:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, like a hundred years ago when they didn't know
[26:43] Speaker 1: what it was. And it's also true that only a
[26:45] Speaker 1: select few of them described it as such. Most of
[26:48] Speaker 1: them would have described it as a big bang or
[26:52] Speaker 1: a big expansion of some nature, but they didn't make
[26:55] Speaker 1: claims about what came before it. It didn't make big claims.
[27:04] Speaker 6: I'm also confused on how this makes sense, because so
[27:09] Speaker 6: you do believe in the Big Bang?
[27:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, why would I not? Because how does that make
[27:17] Speaker 1: sense with an eternal univous Because the Big Bang doesn't
[27:20] Speaker 1: posit that there was nothing and then something exploded out
[27:23] Speaker 1: of the nothing. So you would you would say that
[27:27] Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense. Then no, I'd say that
[27:30] Speaker 1: the way you understand it doesn't make any sense. The
[27:32] Speaker 1: way I understand it is that there was a very hot,
[27:35] Speaker 1: dense mass that expanded, probably through some form of chemical
[27:39] Speaker 1: reaction that I don't have the expertise to actually explain,
[27:44] Speaker 1: or perhaps through dark energy. There's there are tons of
[27:47] Speaker 1: theories as to why the matter started to expand that
[27:50] Speaker 1: being said, I hold to a cyclical universe model.
[27:54] Speaker 6: And this this is also kind of what I was
[27:56] Speaker 6: saying two years talking about a ton of different theories,
[27:59] Speaker 6: Like you know how many theories there are to say that,
[28:02] Speaker 6: Like tons of different sciences throughout the scientific communities have
[28:05] Speaker 6: completely different theories of how the world came to be.
[28:08] Speaker 6: So you're selecting one of those. You just said it yourself.
[28:12] Speaker 6: There's a ton of difference.
[28:13] Speaker 1: Is science does not make claims about how the universe
[28:17] Speaker 1: came into being. That's not what science does. That's what
[28:22] Speaker 1: religion does. Science is telling you this is what we
[28:26] Speaker 1: know as far back as we can go. They're not
[28:29] Speaker 1: saying that there was once something and then are there
[28:32] Speaker 1: once nothing and then something came into being and this
[28:35] Speaker 1: is how it came into being.
[28:38] Speaker 6: But isn't that what they're doing by saying that the
[28:40] Speaker 6: universe is eternal. They're making that claim that the universe
[28:42] Speaker 6: has always existed, So they technically are proving the or
[28:45] Speaker 6: saying the origins of the universe.
[28:47] Speaker 1: Well, if it always existed, then there's no origin. These
[28:50] Speaker 1: are category rs.
[28:53] Speaker 6: So science is making a claim of the origins or
[28:57] Speaker 6: eternity of the universe.
[29:00] Speaker 1: The science does have opinions on whether or not the
[29:02] Speaker 1: universe existed eternally or non eternally.
[29:05] Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, so there's different theories of how the world
[29:10] Speaker 6: either came into existence or has always existed.
[29:14] Speaker 1: Right, But science doesn't hold to the idea that it
[29:16] Speaker 1: once didn't exist.
[29:21] Speaker 6: I think that there are definitely scientists who believe that
[29:25] Speaker 6: the Big Bang was the start of the universe.
[29:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, like Ken Ham or Kent Hoven, guys with like
[29:31] Speaker 1: fake degrees. Yeah, let's just look it up. I'll bet
[29:41] Speaker 1: you one hundred dollars. The first name that comes up
[29:42] Speaker 1: a statement Hawking, and you're not going to like how
[29:44] Speaker 1: I address it. For every scientist that you can chat GPT,
[29:58] Speaker 1: I'll name you the scientists that it disagrees with them.
[30:01] Speaker 1: So this would be a really fun endeavor.
[30:05] Speaker 6: Well, the first thing that does come up is an
[30:06] Speaker 6: AI overview. I think that's just regularly now for researches.
[30:11] Speaker 1: Stephen Hawking was like the last famous person to suggest
[30:15] Speaker 1: that there might have been nothing prior to the Big Bang,
[30:18] Speaker 1: but even he went back on that statement and corrected
[30:21] Speaker 1: himself late in life.
[30:23] Speaker 6: This says, while specific percentages can vary depending on the
[30:26] Speaker 6: survey and the group of scientists surveyed. Estimate range from
[30:29] Speaker 6: eight percent to nearly one hundred percent with the scientific community.
[30:32] Speaker 6: For example, study of members of the National Academics of
[30:35] Speaker 6: Science indicated that ninety nine point nine percent believe the
[30:38] Speaker 6: universe began with a Big Bang. This widespread acceptances on
[30:41] Speaker 6: robust balloty of evidence supporting the theory. Okay, so ninety
[30:45] Speaker 6: nine point nine percent believe the universe began with the
[30:48] Speaker 6: Big Bang.
[30:49] Speaker 1: Yes, And if you actually read their studies, they tell
[30:52] Speaker 1: you that they're talking about the observable, observable universe. That's
[30:56] Speaker 1: the start of the observable universe. They're not saying that
[30:59] Speaker 1: there was nothing that gave rise to something. In fact,
[31:02] Speaker 1: Lawrence Krauss famously wrote a book on this called Something
[31:05] Speaker 1: from Nothing, and he dedicated an entire chapter to the
[31:09] Speaker 1: idea that nothing doesn't actually mean nothing.
[31:14] Speaker 6: These these are the kind of claims that people were
[31:17] Speaker 6: making that they're in the fact that you think that
[31:19] Speaker 6: there is proof for this is astonishing.
[31:22] Speaker 2: No one.
[31:25] Speaker 6: That nothing like before the universe. There was this, before
[31:28] Speaker 6: the universe, there.
[31:29] Speaker 1: Was already what would be the evidence that there was
[31:33] Speaker 1: nothing before the Big Bang. What's the evidence of that?
[31:37] Speaker 6: This is now you know you're moving the question back
[31:40] Speaker 6: to me. I don't have a problem saying that I
[31:41] Speaker 6: don't know. But the fact is you rely on science
[31:46] Speaker 6: and you're acting like science is correct.
[31:49] Speaker 1: No, I don't rely on science to say that your
[31:51] Speaker 1: God doesn't exist.
[31:53] Speaker 6: It again, it's you wanted to diminish the idea of
[31:56] Speaker 6: a god so bad.
[31:57] Speaker 1: Just to be completely just be completely frank with you.
[32:03] Speaker 1: I dismissed your god long before I dismissed the notion
[32:07] Speaker 1: of a god. In general. Your god is easily dismissed.
[32:11] Speaker 1: You literally went to seminary school.
[32:13] Speaker 2: I know.
[32:13] Speaker 1: That's why. I know that your book is full of
[32:15] Speaker 1: lies and failed prophecies and bad science and bad history.
[32:20] Speaker 1: That's why it's not true.
[32:22] Speaker 6: Let's go okay, let's you can move away from the
[32:27] Speaker 6: fact that you're basing your ideology about life off of
[32:30] Speaker 6: something that is unstable.
[32:32] Speaker 1: And you know that's true. My ideology of life has
[32:35] Speaker 1: nothing to do with whether or not your God exists. Again,
[32:39] Speaker 1: it's back to my god.
[32:41] Speaker 2: I feel like you're.
[32:42] Speaker 1: Trying literally the topic of the stream. Your God is
[32:45] Speaker 1: imaginary this whole time, but this time you've been trying
[32:49] Speaker 1: to avoid addressing the actual topic, and I've been nice
[32:52] Speaker 1: enough to let you do it because you're young. I
[32:54] Speaker 1: don't think you do these debates a whole lot, and
[32:56] Speaker 1: I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.
[32:58] Speaker 1: But the reality is the topic of the debate is
[33:01] Speaker 1: that your God is imaginary and your God is a
[33:04] Speaker 1: Christian God that you already admitted. Do you have no
[33:06] Speaker 1: defense for demonstrating that your God is real? Now, on
[33:11] Speaker 1: the other side, I have lots of reasons to believe
[33:13] Speaker 1: that your God isn't real.
[33:16] Speaker 6: You want to go through some of those, Okay, yeah,
[33:19] Speaker 6: but I'd just like to say one more thing before
[33:20] Speaker 6: you go into these reasons. You don't have to reply
[33:24] Speaker 6: to it. This is more so like it just a statement.
[33:27] Speaker 6: It seems like you spend the majority of your time
[33:29] Speaker 6: trying to disprove the existence of a possible God when
[33:33] Speaker 6: you could be looking at your own beliefs and your
[33:36] Speaker 6: own ideologies and seeing the inconsistencies within them and trying
[33:40] Speaker 6: to better understand what's inconsistent. I was just trying to
[33:44] Speaker 6: tell you, and then you completely move directions.
[33:46] Speaker 1: What am I being inconsistent about?
[33:50] Speaker 6: You're being inconsistent about the fact that you're trying to
[33:53] Speaker 6: say that there is proof, and there's theories, and there's
[33:56] Speaker 6: all these things that different scientists have. Scientists have their
[34:01] Speaker 6: own theories about it, and you're saying that you believe
[34:04] Speaker 6: things that cannot be proven, but you're acting as if
[34:08] Speaker 6: they can because they're part of this scientific.
[34:10] Speaker 1: Quote unquote community. Well that's not at all. So I
[34:14] Speaker 1: believe where the evidence leads me, and the evidence that
[34:17] Speaker 1: we have at our disposal suggests that the universe is eternal. Now,
[34:21] Speaker 1: if new evidence shows up next week that suggests otherwise,
[34:24] Speaker 1: I'd be happy to change my mind on it. But
[34:26] Speaker 1: I have seen no evidence of it, just like there's
[34:29] Speaker 1: no evidence of your gun.
[34:31] Speaker 6: So then ninety nine point nine percent believe that the
[34:33] Speaker 6: universe begin with a big thing.
[34:36] Speaker 2: They don't. They don't they do it.
[34:41] Speaker 1: I live stream with an actual PhD physicist once a week.
[34:48] Speaker 1: He'll tell you the same thing I'd tell you, which
[34:50] Speaker 1: is that the beginning of the observable universe doesn't suggest
[34:53] Speaker 1: that that's the beginning of all things, like there was
[34:55] Speaker 1: once nothing and then boom, the universe existed. That's not
[34:58] Speaker 1: what that statement means.
[35:01] Speaker 6: Okay, then I'm asking you to explain it, and you
[35:03] Speaker 6: can't even explain what that means. What means what was
[35:09] Speaker 6: there before the Big Bang in which the evidence is supported.
[35:12] Speaker 1: I've already told you there's multiple theories about what was
[35:15] Speaker 1: before the Big Bang. Some people will say cosmic foam.
[35:17] Speaker 1: Some people will say it's a cyclical universe. Some people
[35:21] Speaker 1: will say there's some sort of other state that we
[35:24] Speaker 1: don't know about. But again, there's no reason to believe
[35:27] Speaker 1: that there was nothing. That we know for a fact
[35:31] Speaker 1: that the fundamental particles in our universe can't be created
[35:35] Speaker 1: or destroyed. They just exist. That's it. So alls we
[35:40] Speaker 1: have at our disposal from science tells us that all
[35:43] Speaker 1: the particles that make up our universe existed forever. You
[35:48] Speaker 1: would need to provide some kind of evidence that would
[35:51] Speaker 1: provide the mechanism by which that these particles didn't exist.
[35:59] Speaker 6: Okay, now this is this is what I was trying
[36:01] Speaker 6: to say. So I am saying that I believe that
[36:06] Speaker 6: the reason these things came into existence was something outside
[36:09] Speaker 6: of time had to create them. And you're saying that
[36:12] Speaker 6: nothing can exist all the time, And you're saying that
[36:16] Speaker 6: these things have always existed, and there's tons of different
[36:19] Speaker 6: theories to prove what came before nothing. I think that
[36:23] Speaker 6: this idea is the same inconsistency as me choosing to
[36:27] Speaker 6: believe that before nothing was God, and you're saying that
[36:30] Speaker 6: before nothing was one of these sert like, I don't
[36:34] Speaker 6: know very much.
[36:35] Speaker 1: I don't you keep you keep suggesting that I believe
[36:38] Speaker 1: there was ever nothing. There was never a state of nothingness.
[36:44] Speaker 6: Again, that's just not that's just not an objective claim,
[36:47] Speaker 6: because that's not even consistent.
[36:48] Speaker 1: It is my claim. My claim is that we have
[36:51] Speaker 1: no evidence that there was never nothing. You just keep
[36:53] Speaker 1: insisting that there was once nothing, but you have no evidence,
[36:58] Speaker 1: you have no reason to believe it. Provide one piece
[37:02] Speaker 1: of evidence, one thing, one piece of evidence that would
[37:06] Speaker 1: suggest that there was nothing at some time. You can't
[37:12] Speaker 1: do it. I know you can't do it because it
[37:13] Speaker 1: doesn't exist.
[37:16] Speaker 6: I think that the idea that the that there was
[37:19] Speaker 6: once nothing is a very common idea, and you're almost
[37:22] Speaker 6: seem to be gaslighting me.
[37:23] Speaker 1: I'm you and no, it's not that common in science.
[37:28] Speaker 1: Yes it is. No, I'm still waiting.
[37:30] Speaker 3: Maybe you could give me, if you.
[37:32] Speaker 1: Could read Sean Carroll, William Kinney, Roger Penrose. You can
[37:37] Speaker 1: even talk to my friend doctor Blitz. This idea that
[37:40] Speaker 1: there was nothing prior to the Big Bang is not
[37:42] Speaker 1: a widely held view in science. It's just not.
[37:49] Speaker 6: Yeah, because it doesn't make any sense.
[37:52] Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, something coming from nothing doesn't make any sense,
[37:55] Speaker 1: which is why modern cosmologists holds to the idea that
[37:58] Speaker 1: there was never nothing. Same thing. I hold to no
[38:06] Speaker 1: reason to believe that there was ever nothing. The only
[38:08] Speaker 1: reason why you believe there was once nothing is because
[38:11] Speaker 1: you need a reason for your God to exist. Thank
[38:15] Speaker 1: you for the birds, Nate. Okay.
[38:18] Speaker 6: And so you think that the energy in the universe
[38:23] Speaker 6: is never going to disappear, but will reach whatever reach.
[38:27] Speaker 6: Do you believe that it will ever reach a state
[38:29] Speaker 6: where no more energy can be transferred? And then no,
[38:34] Speaker 6: you don't believe that. No, Okay, Now I believe in
[38:39] Speaker 6: the cyclical universe. You know what the cyclic universal model is. No,
[38:44] Speaker 6: But I would like to say that the majority of
[38:45] Speaker 6: scientists dog no, they don't.
[38:48] Speaker 2: So the cyclical.
[38:49] Speaker 1: Universe model will basically posit that the expansion of the
[38:53] Speaker 1: universe will eventually slow down and then it will be
[38:57] Speaker 1: drawn back in on itself and it's going to be
[38:59] Speaker 1: a big tight ball of hot, dense matter and energy,
[39:03] Speaker 1: just like it was prior to the Big Bang, and
[39:05] Speaker 1: then it's going to expand again. It's an infinite cycle
[39:08] Speaker 1: of big bang, big crunch, big bang, big crunch. And
[39:12] Speaker 1: the evidence of this is that the expansion, the acceleration
[39:15] Speaker 1: rate of the expansion is decreasing, so every so many
[39:19] Speaker 1: years the acceleration is less, and it's going to keep
[39:24] Speaker 1: doing that until it's not accelerating anymore, and then it's
[39:27] Speaker 1: going to keep doing that until it's literally decelerating. And
[39:30] Speaker 1: this was recently confirmed by the latest DESI data. There's
[39:33] Speaker 1: other reasons to believe that this was the case prior
[39:35] Speaker 1: to it as well. The expanding or the rebounding universe
[39:40] Speaker 1: model I think back in the seventies they called it
[39:43] Speaker 1: the elastic universe model. That's how I first came into
[39:46] Speaker 1: the theory. It's been around for a long time and
[39:49] Speaker 1: there's lots of reasons why people believe in it. Okay,
[39:55] Speaker 1: so that is interesting.
[39:59] Speaker 6: I don't again, I think that that whole theory is
[40:01] Speaker 6: again a theory, and I think that.
[40:04] Speaker 1: But we have evidence of it. That's what I'm saying.
[40:07] Speaker 1: We have evidence of these scientific theories, but you have
[40:10] Speaker 1: no evidence of the God. See, this is what it gets.
[40:14] Speaker 1: It really tickles me about people get up here talking
[40:17] Speaker 1: about like how their God must be the cause of
[40:20] Speaker 1: all things. Because let's imagine tomorrow that we don't know
[40:23] Speaker 1: a damn thing about science, Like we don't know about
[40:25] Speaker 1: the Big Bang, we don't know about how suns work,
[40:29] Speaker 1: we don't know anything. You would still need to provide
[40:32] Speaker 1: an argument for your God existing. I could know nothing
[40:35] Speaker 1: about science and still know that your God doesn't exist.
[40:39] Speaker 1: So this whole commentary on how like you don't really
[40:44] Speaker 1: know what cosmology teaches is just a meaningless endeavor. It
[40:48] Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything. It will never prove your God being real.
[40:51] Speaker 1: He's in order to prove your God being real, you
[40:53] Speaker 1: have to lay down an argument or evidence for your
[40:56] Speaker 1: God being real. You'll never prove your God being real
[40:59] Speaker 1: by trying to disprove science, or disprove Hinduism or disprove Islam.
[41:06] Speaker 6: Yeah, and I think you're right about that. I think
[41:08] Speaker 6: I will never or no one will ever be able
[41:11] Speaker 6: to prove the existence of a God. However, it does
[41:14] Speaker 6: make me a little irritan. It does make me well.
[41:16] Speaker 6: I mean, you even said to yourself. You can't prove
[41:18] Speaker 6: anything with one hundred percent certainty, and I definitely don't
[41:20] Speaker 6: think that you can prove a god with one hundred
[41:22] Speaker 6: percent certainty, because I think the majority of reasons why
[41:25] Speaker 6: people believe is because they believe that they have a
[41:27] Speaker 6: relationship with him. However, it does make me a little
[41:30] Speaker 6: bit irritated that you come on here and you say
[41:33] Speaker 6: that you can't prove the existence of a god, which
[41:35] Speaker 6: I do believe in. You can, yes, I don't think
[41:39] Speaker 6: you can fully prove the existence of a God. No,
[41:42] Speaker 6: and then you go on to say that you can,
[41:45] Speaker 6: Like it seems like you're trying to say that you
[41:47] Speaker 6: can prove that the origins of the universe, not the
[41:50] Speaker 6: origins because you believe all. But it seems like you're
[41:54] Speaker 6: saying that you can prove this from science.
[41:56] Speaker 2: No, not at all.
[41:57] Speaker 1: What I'm saying is the reason why I believe the
[42:00] Speaker 1: universal model that I believe is because of what we
[42:04] Speaker 1: know through modern science, and any of that could be wrong.
[42:07] Speaker 1: I could be literally wrong about everything I just told
[42:09] Speaker 1: you about science. Today, your God would still be fake.
[42:12] Speaker 1: They're not connected, they don't have they're not even in
[42:16] Speaker 1: the same room together. Your God doesn't exist no matter
[42:19] Speaker 1: what you think about science.
[42:23] Speaker 6: Okay, And when you talk about evidence, it seems like
[42:25] Speaker 6: the evidence that people give you it's always like, well,
[42:28] Speaker 6: that's not evidence. Like I'm talking about how the universe.
[42:34] Speaker 6: I mentioned slightly that the thirty plus universal constance, if
[42:37] Speaker 6: any one of them changed by a mere factory, life
[42:39] Speaker 6: to exist.
[42:40] Speaker 1: And that's a circular argument. Do you know what begging
[42:42] Speaker 1: the question is? Begging the question is when you support
[42:49] Speaker 1: your conclusion with the conclusion. And that's what you've done.
[42:53] Speaker 1: You said God exists because of the universal constants, and
[42:57] Speaker 1: the universal constants prove that God exists because it prooves
[43:00] Speaker 1: that this thing that has intent did something that was
[43:03] Speaker 1: exceedingly rare. Therefore it must be that God existed. As
[43:06] Speaker 1: a circular argument, but before you can claim that the
[43:10] Speaker 1: universe had the intent to create life, you would have
[43:13] Speaker 1: to first prove that there was an entity that was
[43:17] Speaker 1: desiring to create life. That's how this probability game works.
[43:21] Speaker 1: The fact that life exists is absolutely meaningless in the
[43:24] Speaker 1: world of probabilities.
[43:28] Speaker 6: My gosh, it's just so you're really not looking for
[43:31] Speaker 6: evidence within the universe.
[43:32] Speaker 1: You're looking at It's like, hear what I say, do
[43:35] Speaker 1: you understand Did you understand anything I just said about probabilities?
[43:40] Speaker 1: But the probability of life existing is only meaningful if
[43:43] Speaker 1: somebody set out to create life.
[43:49] Speaker 6: I feel like you're not listening to anything I just said.
[43:50] Speaker 6: I just replied to you by saying, so you're not
[43:53] Speaker 6: looking for evidence within the universe, because if I give
[43:56] Speaker 6: you evidence within the universe, you're still looking for the
[43:59] Speaker 6: question if the person that created the universe was looking
[44:01] Speaker 6: for it for human life.
[44:03] Speaker 1: No, you can't support the hypothesis that a crater exists
[44:08] Speaker 1: with the claim that a crater exists. That's what you're
[44:11] Speaker 1: attempting to do. Like I said, listen, there's a place
[44:14] Speaker 1: in my backyard where water actually flows uphill. And I said,
[44:19] Speaker 1: well it will it proved to me that water can
[44:21] Speaker 1: actually flow uphill. I said, well, it's true because I've
[44:25] Speaker 1: looked outside and water is flowing uphill, and it is
[44:27] Speaker 1: incredibly a rare for it to happen. Therefore, it must
[44:29] Speaker 1: mean that water can flow up phill. This is a
[44:31] Speaker 1: circular argument. It's saying that it's true because it's true.
[44:33] Speaker 1: You're saying that that God exists because this thing happened.
[44:38] Speaker 1: But this thing already presupposes that the god exists. The argument,
[44:43] Speaker 1: the argument that you're laying down is circular. Okay, but
[44:48] Speaker 1: you realize you do this if I go This is
[44:50] Speaker 1: a common argument. But if you go outside and see
[44:53] Speaker 1: a forth that's being built, you're presupposing that someone built
[44:56] Speaker 1: the fort. That's not a circle. You wouldn't consider that
[44:58] Speaker 1: a circule world because we've seen people forts. I know
[45:00] Speaker 1: what a fort looks like, and I've seen people build it.
[45:03] Speaker 1: We have no evidence of a universal or a universe
[45:06] Speaker 1: building anything. It could be that there's an army of
[45:11] Speaker 1: like magic unicorns that build universes. It could be that
[45:14] Speaker 1: there's like like outer space gremlins that build universes. Like
[45:19] Speaker 1: you can't just say, well, here there's a thing. We've
[45:22] Speaker 1: seen a watch get built, so we we since watches
[45:25] Speaker 1: get built, there must be a universe builder.
[45:27] Speaker 2: That's that's a leap.
[45:29] Speaker 1: Okay.
[45:29] Speaker 6: So do you believe in like if you saw like
[45:32] Speaker 6: a machine coding, would you believe that that was created?
[45:35] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[45:36] Speaker 1: Because it turns out I literally designed machines for a living.
[45:39] Speaker 1: That's that's what I do for So a machine is
[45:42] Speaker 1: something that I know humans create. That's why I know
[45:45] Speaker 1: that it was created by humans.
[45:47] Speaker 6: So the four sections of DNA act like digital characters
[45:50] Speaker 6: in sections of software. This is from some interview that
[45:53] Speaker 6: I watched. It was someone on with Francis Collins. I
[45:57] Speaker 6: forget who it was, But the four sections of DNA.
[46:01] Speaker 1: DNA is not code. It's also wildly inefficient.
[46:07] Speaker 6: Richard Dawkins says it functions like a machine code. So
[46:10] Speaker 6: Richard Dawkins himself said it functions like a deep code.
[46:13] Speaker 1: I'm sure, but it's not. As someone who actually programs code,
[46:17] Speaker 1: I can tell you that it doesn't function like code.
[46:19] Speaker 1: This is like I literally spend my life programming code.
[46:22] Speaker 1: So you're kind of in the wrong place to talk
[46:23] Speaker 1: about programming code. But the other thing is that if
[46:27] Speaker 1: it was designed by somebody an entity, it's like a
[46:30] Speaker 1: really terrible design. It's wildly inefficient, it's prone to errors,
[46:34] Speaker 1: it can't self correct. The algorithms get fucked up all
[46:37] Speaker 1: the time. Sometimes the algorithm itself is wrong from birth.
[46:41] Speaker 1: And then the DNA is my favorite reason to believe
[46:44] Speaker 1: that we're actually evolved from apes or from a common
[46:48] Speaker 1: ancestor with apes. So the DNA argument is going to
[46:52] Speaker 1: work against you before it works for you. Okay, so
[46:55] Speaker 1: he also inside the simplest cell, we have bigal nanotechnology.
[46:59] Speaker 1: We have information that is being used to build protein machines,
[47:06] Speaker 1: the Fortune instant gena and like digital characters and seek
[47:08] Speaker 1: section of software. Okay, So you're telling me from a
[47:11] Speaker 1: random explosion that this came about with all of that
[47:18] Speaker 1: precision and what I would like that cannot come If
[47:22] Speaker 1: you think that that can come about by accident, I
[47:25] Speaker 1: can absolutely boil. I don't understand like what prevents it
[47:31] Speaker 1: from happening. So again, your your argument is your argument
[47:35] Speaker 1: is personal incredulity. That's all it is. This is not no,
[47:40] Speaker 1: it's have you actually taken a biology class? Are you
[47:43] Speaker 1: in college yet?
[47:45] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[47:45] Speaker 1: Have you taken a biology class on a college level? No?
[47:50] Speaker 1: Maybe you should because like these are not these are
[47:54] Speaker 1: not like hot topics among biologists. These are widely accepted
[47:59] Speaker 1: theories and biology, like evolution and evolutionary biology isn't something
[48:03] Speaker 1: that like people are debating about in the classroom anymore.
[48:07] Speaker 6: When have I tried to debate about evolution?
[48:10] Speaker 1: Well, you're not. I am bringing it up. But my
[48:13] Speaker 1: guess is, since you're talking about DNA, you're going to
[48:15] Speaker 1: tell me that you don't believe in evolution. No, I
[48:19] Speaker 1: believe in evolution. That brings up some problems. And how
[48:22] Speaker 1: long has humans been on the earth? How long have
[48:28] Speaker 1: humans been on the earth? Billions of years? I would say, okay,
[48:33] Speaker 1: how long have humans been on the earth? According to
[48:36] Speaker 1: the Bible.
[48:39] Speaker 6: The Bible does not give any scientific claims.
[48:42] Speaker 1: It does it gives a genealogy from Jesus all the
[48:45] Speaker 1: way to Adam.
[48:49] Speaker 6: Uh Luke, where's that geology?
[48:52] Speaker 2: Luke?
[48:52] Speaker 1: Chapter three? Have you not read? Luke?
[49:00] Speaker 2: See?
[49:00] Speaker 1: This is why like talking about science is a waste
[49:03] Speaker 1: of time. Your God will never be real. No matter
[49:06] Speaker 1: how much pseudoscience and how many bad apologies science books
[49:10] Speaker 1: you read, Your God will not be real. Your God
[49:14] Speaker 1: says that Jesus had his lineage go all the way
[49:16] Speaker 1: back to Adam, and we literally know how long all
[49:19] Speaker 1: of those individuals lived in the Bible.
[49:25] Speaker 6: So you make fun of you don't believe, but then
[49:29] Speaker 6: you make people who fund of people who do believe
[49:32] Speaker 6: in evolution.
[49:34] Speaker 1: I'm not making fun of you. I'm just saying that
[49:37] Speaker 1: your your viewpoint is troubling because you can't believe in
[49:40] Speaker 1: evolution and believe in like a literal Adam and Eve
[49:44] Speaker 1: and you kind of need the literal Adam and Eve
[49:46] Speaker 1: for the Bible to make sense. Yeah, I do believe
[49:49] Speaker 1: in the literal and Adam and Eve. Sure, And when
[49:52] Speaker 1: did they live? I don't. I don't know. It's kind
[49:57] Speaker 1: of an important thing, don't you think. I would say
[50:02] Speaker 1: that a lot of Christians hold to.
[50:05] Speaker 6: Not young creation, but they believe that Adam and Eve
[50:08] Speaker 6: were like six thousand years ago. I do know a
[50:10] Speaker 6: lot of Catholics to believe that, otherwise that they do
[50:14] Speaker 6: believe in evolution.
[50:15] Speaker 1: So I think that there's no strict guideline in which
[50:18] Speaker 1: we have to follow whether not to.
[50:19] Speaker 6: Believe in evolution or Adam and Eve.
[50:22] Speaker 1: I do think that it is.
[50:24] Speaker 6: Though, if the first humans were not adamant Eve, I
[50:26] Speaker 6: think that would be troublesome.
[50:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it definitely would be troublesome. Right, So
[50:30] Speaker 1: if the first humans lived, you know, even ten thousand
[50:33] Speaker 1: years ago, you've got a huge problem because the Bible
[50:35] Speaker 1: says that Adam and Eve live roughly four thousand BCE,
[50:42] Speaker 1: and you're getting that numbered by adding up the ages
[50:47] Speaker 1: of everyone's out the Bible. Yeah, the ages of the
[50:49] Speaker 1: lineage in Luke chapter three can be deduced, so it
[50:53] Speaker 1: comes out to about four thousand BCE, right, so that's
[51:03] Speaker 1: like the time The time scale is a huge issue there.
[51:07] Speaker 2: Also, this brings up.
[51:09] Speaker 1: A really interesting point, which is that, like, if you
[51:11] Speaker 1: believe that animals evolved into being human beings, where at
[51:16] Speaker 1: what point did it become a human being?
[51:19] Speaker 2: Like?
[51:19] Speaker 1: Where's the cutoff? Where's the transition line?
[51:25] Speaker 6: I would say when Adam and Eve were the cutoff?
[51:28] Speaker 1: Right, But when, at what point during the transition, during
[51:31] Speaker 1: the evolutionary phase did that happen? What do you mean?
[51:38] Speaker 6: I'm saying that everything that became before Adam and Eve
[51:41] Speaker 6: were not part of the cutoff. Everything that came after
[51:45] Speaker 6: Adam and Eve were the cutoff. What was the difference
[51:48] Speaker 6: between Adam and Eve and their parents, because that's the cutoff.
[51:52] Speaker 6: What was the difference between the two?
[51:58] Speaker 1: Oh? No, Adam and Eve didn't have parents. So you
[52:02] Speaker 1: don't believe in evolution?
[52:05] Speaker 6: No, No, you're you're asking me what the cutoff was.
[52:08] Speaker 6: I believe that Adam and Eve were the first humans
[52:11] Speaker 6: that had value in the eyes of God. However, I
[52:13] Speaker 6: think that there was evolution before Adam and Eve that
[52:16] Speaker 6: was creating species and different kinds of variety of animals. However,
[52:20] Speaker 6: I think that Adam Eve were the first humans that
[52:23] Speaker 6: had inherent worth and value.
[52:25] Speaker 1: Right, But that's not my question. My question is like,
[52:28] Speaker 1: if Adam and Eve evolved from prior ancestors, so everything
[52:36] Speaker 1: everything evolved except for Adam and Eve.
[52:39] Speaker 6: Yes, And that's why I think that that's what. I
[52:41] Speaker 6: don't know why you're acting that's not in the Bible.
[52:45] Speaker 6: It's not in the Bible that God spoke them into existence.
[52:48] Speaker 1: Well, God spoke everything into existence, so you can't make
[52:50] Speaker 1: an exception for Adam and Eve. He spoke the light
[52:53] Speaker 1: and darkness into existence. He spoke the plants into existence.
[52:57] Speaker 1: He spoke Adam and Eve into existence. So what However,
[53:00] Speaker 1: Adam and Eve came into existence, everything else came the
[53:02] Speaker 1: same way. Have you read much of the Bible, because
[53:11] Speaker 1: it sounds to me like maybe you've read some some
[53:13] Speaker 1: stuff from like apologists or apologists websites, but you don't
[53:17] Speaker 1: actually know what's in the Bible. Did very well?
[53:21] Speaker 6: I think I have a general grasp of the main
[53:23] Speaker 6: message of the Bible.
[53:24] Speaker 2: Right.
[53:25] Speaker 1: Well, it's just it's weird to me that you think
[53:27] Speaker 1: that ab and Eve were created but everything else evolved.
[53:31] Speaker 1: This is like wildly inconsistent I don't.
[53:35] Speaker 6: I mean, I guess it does sound kind of inconsistent,
[53:38] Speaker 6: but I do. Do you not think that this is
[53:39] Speaker 6: what the people who hold to evolution in creation? What
[53:44] Speaker 6: would they think that Adam and you've also evolved?
[53:48] Speaker 1: What would they say? Do you know? No, So there's
[53:50] Speaker 1: a couple of views on this. In fact, one of
[53:53] Speaker 1: my old Testament professors was part of the Biologost Foundation.
[53:56] Speaker 1: They do a lot of Christian research on this same thing.
[54:00] Speaker 1: With like Reason to Believe, they're another organization that does
[54:03] Speaker 1: research on this topic. But most of these people who
[54:06] Speaker 1: believe in science but still believe in like the Bible,
[54:10] Speaker 1: would take the Adam and Eve story to be non literal.
[54:14] Speaker 1: It's like a metaphor or it's mythology, but it's not
[54:18] Speaker 1: literally referring to the events as so they happened in
[54:21] Speaker 1: real life. That's how they've taken.
[54:24] Speaker 6: So what would they do with the genealogy?
[54:27] Speaker 1: They would just say it's mythology, just like the genealogy
[54:31] Speaker 1: in the Samerian king List.
[54:35] Speaker 6: Okay, well, that kind of makes it hard to grasp
[54:38] Speaker 6: what you should believe.
[54:39] Speaker 1: In what not to believe. I agree, And once you
[54:42] Speaker 1: get to the point where you're like the parts that
[54:44] Speaker 1: you don't like just become mythology and non literal. Then, like,
[54:49] Speaker 1: where do you stop drawing that line? At some point
[54:51] Speaker 1: you can just say all of it is non literal.
[54:53] Speaker 1: You could be like an agnostic. I don't know. All right, Well, listen,
[55:05] Speaker 1: we spent some time. I gotta get move on to
[55:07] Speaker 1: the next guest. We spent a lot of time talking
[55:09] Speaker 1: about science, and I didn't hear a single argument for
[55:12] Speaker 1: your God. So I'm gonna assume that your opening statement,
[55:16] Speaker 1: which is that there is no evidence, is the same
[55:18] Speaker 1: as your closing statement.
[55:21] Speaker 6: No, I don't think so. I think that there is
[55:23] Speaker 6: good evidence for God. If you're not, as you keep saying,
[55:26] Speaker 6: it's a circular argument, I don't think it is a
[55:28] Speaker 6: circular argument, and you couldn't. I think that the complexity
[55:32] Speaker 6: that we see from the simplest single celled organism points
[55:36] Speaker 6: the complexity that we see.
[55:37] Speaker 1: You can laugh. I don't know why you're laughing.
[55:39] Speaker 6: Even the biggest people who believe in an evolution of
[55:42] Speaker 6: their time period believe that even the simplest celt organisms
[55:47] Speaker 6: have complexities that astonish them, and they think that it's
[55:52] Speaker 6: the probability of that coming out from random chances is astonishing.
[55:56] Speaker 1: We've already been just the probability. You keep misunderstanding probability,
[56:00] Speaker 1: and at this point, I'm afraid that you're incapable of
[56:03] Speaker 1: understanding the probability argument. So alls I would say is
[56:07] Speaker 1: moving forward, try not to use that argument with like
[56:10] Speaker 1: I don't know debaters that aren't on their first day debating,
[56:14] Speaker 1: because like they're just going to keep telling you the
[56:16] Speaker 1: same thing I told you four times, which is that
[56:18] Speaker 1: probability is a really important if you have like a
[56:21] Speaker 1: sentient being that's attempting to do something.
[56:27] Speaker 2: Right.
[56:27] Speaker 1: Like if I if I said, Sarah, if you're gonna
[56:33] Speaker 1: go to the store tomorrow and I'm gonna you're gonna
[56:36] Speaker 1: buy fifty items, and I'm going to guess all fifty
[56:38] Speaker 1: of them without without me knowing, without me using any technology.
[56:43] Speaker 1: I'm just in a black box somewhere, right, and when
[56:46] Speaker 1: you get home, I'm going to tell you everything you
[56:48] Speaker 1: got from the store. Now, the probability of me getting
[56:50] Speaker 1: that right is unbelievable, Like nobody would believe it. They'd
[56:54] Speaker 1: be like this motherfucker's got a camera, he's got he's
[56:56] Speaker 1: spying on me, Like no one's gonna believe it because
[56:59] Speaker 1: it's such an probable thing to do. But it's only
[57:03] Speaker 1: improbable if my goal. If I have a goal in
[57:06] Speaker 1: mind to do the thing right, the minute you take
[57:10] Speaker 1: away the idea that it was my goal to do it,
[57:12] Speaker 1: the probability is completely meaningless. So like if she just
[57:16] Speaker 1: came home and I said, well, fuck, you got beans,
[57:18] Speaker 1: you got rights, and I named everything she brought home, well, yeah,
[57:21] Speaker 1: the probability that she grabbed all fifty of those items
[57:24] Speaker 1: is highly improbable. The arrangement of those fifty items will
[57:28] Speaker 1: never be the same again. But that's meaningless because like
[57:31] Speaker 1: it's not improbable that she brought fifty items home, it's
[57:33] Speaker 1: just improbable that I could have guessed what those fifty
[57:36] Speaker 1: items are. Yeah, I think I get it, you know
[57:41] Speaker 1: what I mean.
[57:43] Speaker 6: My last question is you think that there's better evidence
[57:46] Speaker 6: for the resurrection of Jesus or evidence that supports that
[57:51] Speaker 6: there is creation.
[57:53] Speaker 1: I think there's more evidence for Nero resurrectioning from the
[57:56] Speaker 1: dead than Jesus. It seems like you really just here
[58:02] Speaker 1: comes to meta Eric comes.
[58:06] Speaker 6: You're not you're induced. You're just not fair with your ideas,
[58:10] Speaker 6: and I think it's pretty evident.
[58:13] Speaker 1: I'm not fair. He didn't mean he hasn't even heard
[58:15] Speaker 1: my argument for why I believe it, but he knows
[58:17] Speaker 1: I'm being unfair. So this type of meta is the
[58:20] Speaker 1: type of stuff that loses you points in a discussion.
[58:23] Speaker 1: Like you've came up here and you've been fairly polite
[58:26] Speaker 1: the time we've been talking. I think you've been polite,
[58:29] Speaker 1: and so you get big brownie points there. But the
[58:31] Speaker 1: minute you start saying things like your viewpoint isn't being
[58:34] Speaker 1: fair when you don't even know why I hold the viewpoint,
[58:37] Speaker 1: it just makes you look silly. It makes you like
[58:40] Speaker 1: you're not actually concerned with the argument at hand. You're
[58:42] Speaker 1: more concerned with trying to paint me as a villain
[58:45] Speaker 1: who's just being unreasonable. Well, I mean, I can tell
[58:50] Speaker 1: you why I think you're being unreasonable. Well, I think
[58:52] Speaker 1: that you spend the majority of your time focusing on
[58:56] Speaker 1: Christianity and bashing Christianity. Is saying about Christianity here?
[59:02] Speaker 6: Okay, what religion do you target the.
[59:05] Speaker 1: Most when you speak to people?
[59:07] Speaker 2: The religion that they have when they come up and
[59:09] Speaker 2: talk to me.
[59:11] Speaker 1: Okay again, if you're a Muslim, might be talking about
[59:15] Speaker 1: Muhammad right now.
[59:16] Speaker 6: So during your free time, when you're looking at studies
[59:20] Speaker 6: are are you looking at other religions or are you
[59:22] Speaker 6: mostly just looking at Christianity.
[59:24] Speaker 1: I studied Christianity more than Islam because I live in
[59:27] Speaker 1: a country where most people are a Christian. But if
[59:29] Speaker 1: I lived in a country like Egypt or Pakistan or
[59:33] Speaker 1: something like that, I'd be studying the kron all the
[59:35] Speaker 1: time because those are the people that I'd be engaging
[59:37] Speaker 1: with most of the time.
[59:39] Speaker 6: Okay, so I'll guess I'll go back to what I
[59:42] Speaker 6: was saying. I think that you spend the majority of
[59:44] Speaker 6: your time trying to bash Christianity. I think that you
[59:47] Speaker 6: have a problem with people. Then you say that like
[59:50] Speaker 6: people can.
[59:51] Speaker 1: Have relationships with Jesus, meta is crazy.
[59:54] Speaker 5: They have relationships with God.
[59:56] Speaker 1: That's okay, No one cares about the meta. Well, listen,
[59:58] Speaker 1: young man. I think the conversation when it's course, when
[1:00:02] Speaker 1: you get to the point where all you have is meta,
[1:00:04] Speaker 1: I think that that's pretty much the end of the conversation.
[1:00:07] Speaker 1: No one came here for meta. We just came here
[1:00:10] Speaker 1: for good arguments, and it sounds like you don't have one.
[1:00:12] Speaker 1: But thanks for joining us and come back try try
[1:00:14] Speaker 1: another time.
[1:00:16] Speaker 6: All right, Thanks for having.
[1:00:19] Speaker 1: He was listening. I think he was a nice young man.
[1:00:22] Speaker 1: I think he's just frustrated that his talking points sounded
[1:00:25] Speaker 1: great in Bible Study but not so good here.
[1:00:30] Speaker 7: Yeah.
[1:00:30] Speaker 8: That's always tough, and it's interesting. I get this probably
[1:00:36] Speaker 8: every single day. Someone angry that if we disagree with them,
[1:00:40] Speaker 8: then we are being mean and angry and unfair, when yeah,
[1:00:46] Speaker 8: we just disagree.
[1:00:48] Speaker 9: I don't.
[1:00:48] Speaker 1: I don't hate you.
[1:00:49] Speaker 2: I'm not sad at you.
[1:00:50] Speaker 6: I just disagree.
[1:00:52] Speaker 1: That's all it is. We just we don't agree. Anyways, guys,
[1:00:56] Speaker 1: make sure you're following Leaving Faith on TikTok and YouTube.
[1:01:00] Speaker 1: She's got great content. We're going to be recording another
[1:01:02] Speaker 1: episode of our Bible Study Saturday and putting that out,
[1:01:05] Speaker 1: so look forward to that, right, I think it's tomorrow. Yeah,
[1:01:09] Speaker 1: I had a crazy week. I probably worked like sixty
[1:01:11] Speaker 1: or seventy hours. This week goes too much. Just one
[1:01:14] Speaker 1: of those things. Anyways, it is what it is. I'm
[1:01:17] Speaker 1: back home now. But Peter, thank you for twenty five
[1:01:19] Speaker 1: hours over Venmo. I really appreciate that. Peter, big big
[1:01:22] Speaker 1: w And let me grab a couple of super chests.
[1:01:24] Speaker 1: We'll get our next guest in here. We've got some
[1:01:26] Speaker 1: people waiting to get in, and I want to make
[1:01:28] Speaker 1: sure we get to them and con thank you so
[1:01:31] Speaker 1: much for the supertest, says proof that Moses has no
[1:01:33] Speaker 1: respect for the One True God Exodus seventeen six. He
[1:01:37] Speaker 1: hits Doug with a stick and makes him cry one
[1:01:39] Speaker 1: an asshole. Actually that's a great story. I mean, listen,
[1:01:44] Speaker 1: if there was ever a reason for Moses not to
[1:01:45] Speaker 1: get into the Promised Land, it's because he hit Doug.
[1:01:48] Speaker 1: He shouldn't have struck Doug like that. The story makes
[1:01:51] Speaker 1: much more sense when you put Doug in there and
[1:01:56] Speaker 1: no apology, says, So, when we see God doing evil,
[1:01:59] Speaker 1: are using his own standard. So yeah, this relates to
[1:02:03] Speaker 1: the question you asked prior. I think so, like when
[1:02:06] Speaker 1: we see God doing evil things, the way that we're
[1:02:09] Speaker 1: able to say, if we're Christians, the way we're able
[1:02:11] Speaker 1: to say, hey, that's some evil shit is because according
[1:02:15] Speaker 1: to Genesis chapter three, like you pointed out, mankind knows
[1:02:18] Speaker 1: right in front wrong. Now now that they ate from
[1:02:20] Speaker 1: the tree, we know good and evil. So we should
[1:02:23] Speaker 1: be able to look at somebody doing evil and be like, hey,
[1:02:26] Speaker 1: that's evil. According to the book, we should just be
[1:02:28] Speaker 1: able to do that, and Asian said, I'm a big fan.
[1:02:32] Speaker 1: Justin listening to you is incredibly soothing. Thank you for
[1:02:34] Speaker 1: doing this well, thank you so much. And I'll tell
[1:02:36] Speaker 1: you one thing. I appreciate the superchat, but nobody is
[1:02:39] Speaker 1: more soothing than Sarah. Sarah's live streams are straight up soothing.
[1:02:45] Speaker 8: We do have a little bit of a different vibe.
[1:02:49] Speaker 1: We really do, We really do. It's a slightly different vibe.
[1:02:55] Speaker 1: And Doctor Joe, you're right, thank you for the superchest,
[1:02:57] Speaker 1: she says, new look at the Trees guest hosts exists. Therefore, God,
[1:03:01] Speaker 1: you're right, let me get the look at the trees.
[1:03:03] Speaker 1: Counter up, we're already at one. Give me a second
[1:03:07] Speaker 1: look at the trees and we are one for the night.
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: There we go.
[1:03:11] Speaker 1: We'll put it on the screen and we're up and run.
[1:03:13] Speaker 1: And thank it, doctor Joe. I appreciate that. And make
[1:03:15] Speaker 1: sure you guys you're following Doctor Joe as well. And
[1:03:20] Speaker 1: no apology says following that this means the who are
[1:03:25] Speaker 1: you to judge God? Argument falls apart. Yeah, it's actually
[1:03:27] Speaker 1: that's what I was saying. I agree with you. This
[1:03:30] Speaker 1: idea that we can't judge God is nullified by what
[1:03:33] Speaker 1: the book actually says, you know what I mean. And
[1:03:36] Speaker 1: mister mister follow up on your previous chat says, my
[1:03:38] Speaker 1: question about the double split experiment is why it reacts
[1:03:42] Speaker 1: to being observed versus not. Would you think this is
[1:03:45] Speaker 1: a conscious decision? Great, I'm glad you brought that up. Okay,
[1:03:47] Speaker 1: I figured that's what you're asking. So the general idea
[1:03:51] Speaker 1: is that, like in quantum wu theory, people are saying, well,
[1:03:54] Speaker 1: the reason why, like the we get this away fund
[1:04:00] Speaker 1: is because our consciousness when we observe it, affects it.
[1:04:05] Speaker 1: But that's not what's actually happening. The problem is we
[1:04:07] Speaker 1: don't have a way of interacting with it. We don't
[1:04:10] Speaker 1: have a way of observing it without interacting with it.
[1:04:14] Speaker 1: And the minute that we actually do interact with it,
[1:04:18] Speaker 1: then it becomes modified, changed, collapse, like it's gonna it's
[1:04:24] Speaker 1: not gonna do the same thing it did before. So
[1:04:26] Speaker 1: the problem isn't that it's just being observed. The problem
[1:04:29] Speaker 1: is that the act of observing is like modifying the behavior.
[1:04:35] Speaker 1: So but I understand why you would think that is
[1:04:39] Speaker 1: the case. And KVJ kV K. This young guy seems
[1:04:43] Speaker 1: nervous reading a script. It was a little script. But
[1:04:47] Speaker 1: he listen, a lot of us were there before, a
[1:04:50] Speaker 1: lot of us were young Christians and we had you know,
[1:04:54] Speaker 1: we read a book from some apologists and thought that
[1:04:56] Speaker 1: they were good talking points. Or in thank you for
[1:04:59] Speaker 1: the necklace. I appreciate at that big w and let
[1:05:01] Speaker 1: me grab this one or two more super chests. We'll
[1:05:03] Speaker 1: grab our next guest in here, Brian, I'm in full agreement.
[1:05:06] Speaker 1: Hello from Austin, Texas. Yaha. Praise Doug. I'm with you, absolutely,
[1:05:11] Speaker 1: praise Doug and absurdist. Thank you so much for the supertest.
[1:05:15] Speaker 1: Has put one on the look at the trees counter.
[1:05:17] Speaker 1: We did, we got it. We got to look at
[1:05:19] Speaker 1: the trees counter. We're at one and Godless, doctor, thank
[1:05:23] Speaker 1: you so much for the superchech. Godless says widey. Christians
[1:05:26] Speaker 1: always get to special plead God that you know what.
[1:05:29] Speaker 1: I should have mentioned special pleading too, because I don't
[1:05:33] Speaker 1: know if that young man knew that he was special pleading.
[1:05:36] Speaker 1: We should have explained it to him because he was
[1:05:38] Speaker 1: definitely special pleading. Ezekiel, welcome in. Let me grab one
[1:05:40] Speaker 1: more super chat. I'm sorry, and then we'll get the
[1:05:43] Speaker 1: conversation moving. Margu with us tonight. Good to see you,
[1:05:46] Speaker 1: my friend. Thank you so much for the nineteen hy
[1:05:48] Speaker 1: nine superchest. It says, thanks for all you do justin
[1:05:50] Speaker 1: keep cooking well. Thank you mar Duke for supporting the stream.
[1:05:54] Speaker 1: We really appreciate you being in here. And Ezekiel, are
[1:05:58] Speaker 1: you at least eighteen? And are you a believer in?
[1:06:01] Speaker 4: Yes, sir, I'm both.
[1:06:02] Speaker 1: How are you doing doing good? Thank you for asking?
[1:06:05] Speaker 1: And what God do you believe in?
[1:06:08] Speaker 4: I believe in the Christian God?
[1:06:09] Speaker 1: Cool? What'd be the most convincing argument or evidence for
[1:06:14] Speaker 1: the Christian God being real?
[1:06:17] Speaker 4: My kind of view is I don't think you can
[1:06:20] Speaker 4: necessarily prove the existence of God. I think it's one
[1:06:24] Speaker 4: hundred percent faith. For me, it was an encounter that
[1:06:26] Speaker 4: I personally had that was real to me, and so
[1:06:29] Speaker 4: that's where my belief stems from. But I did kind
[1:06:33] Speaker 4: of want to just talk about something that I've seen
[1:06:35] Speaker 4: you question about.
[1:06:36] Speaker 1: Well, I had a friend who converted from Christianity to
[1:06:41] Speaker 1: Islam based on an experience that he had. Would that
[1:06:45] Speaker 1: be like a good justification to believe in the God
[1:06:48] Speaker 1: of Islam for them?
[1:06:50] Speaker 4: Yeah, it could definitely. I think it could definitely be
[1:06:52] Speaker 4: a good justification I think, especially when it comes to God,
[1:06:55] Speaker 4: that it's a lot of experience that has to kind
[1:06:59] Speaker 4: of take place for I don't think no amount of
[1:07:01] Speaker 4: evidence can necessarily bring you to faith, unless like you're
[1:07:04] Speaker 4: really looking for it.
[1:07:06] Speaker 1: Well, I think human beings can be persuaded by evidence.
[1:07:09] Speaker 1: Like I want to believed in a God. I was
[1:07:12] Speaker 1: raised to believe in a God, and when I was
[1:07:14] Speaker 1: presented with evidence, I changed my mind. Right, So like
[1:07:17] Speaker 1: I and Sarah too. Sarah used to be a Christian.
[1:07:19] Speaker 1: She was presented with evidence and changed her mind. So
[1:07:22] Speaker 1: like I think humans are pretty open to evidence typically.
[1:07:25] Speaker 1: That's why we ask like what would be the evidence
[1:07:28] Speaker 1: that would warrant, you know, changing our minds?
[1:07:33] Speaker 4: Yes, sir, Yeah, I agree completely. I don't think that
[1:07:37] Speaker 4: there's no I think there's like things that can like
[1:07:39] Speaker 4: say hey this is this can show there's could be
[1:07:41] Speaker 4: an existence of a God. But I think for me,
[1:07:45] Speaker 4: I think the biggest thing is being able to defend
[1:07:47] Speaker 4: the faith for me personally. So that's why I kind
[1:07:51] Speaker 4: of wanted to talk. I know you have a script
[1:07:53] Speaker 4: or not a script, a prompto, so I wanted to
[1:07:55] Speaker 4: kind of talk about where Jesus said that some here
[1:08:01] Speaker 4: that are standing here will not die and will not
[1:08:03] Speaker 4: taste death until they see the Kingdom of God.
[1:08:05] Speaker 10: Matthew, Yes, sir, yeah, I wanted to talk about that,
[1:08:09] Speaker 10: If that's okay.
[1:08:10] Speaker 4: I know you have a script though, so I don't
[1:08:11] Speaker 4: want to like mess it up.
[1:08:12] Speaker 1: No, I don't actually have a script this particular topic
[1:08:16] Speaker 1: is it doesn't need a script. Sometimes I do. Actually,
[1:08:18] Speaker 1: I do have topics that are kind of scripted. This
[1:08:21] Speaker 1: isn't really one of them. So I love Matthew sixteen.
[1:08:23] Speaker 1: What do you want to talk about?
[1:08:25] Speaker 4: Okay? So my view on that is that he's actually
[1:08:29] Speaker 4: referring to the transfiguration, and I kind of wanted to
[1:08:32] Speaker 4: see why you think it's not referring to the transfiguration.
[1:08:37] Speaker 1: Cool, so right from the outset right, it says truly,
[1:08:41] Speaker 1: I tell you, there are some standing here right now.
[1:08:45] Speaker 1: My contention is that some is always more than one,
[1:08:49] Speaker 1: and it's never all. So that's kind of how we
[1:08:52] Speaker 1: would interpret the words some sores. Some of you standing
[1:08:55] Speaker 1: here will not taste death before they see the Son
[1:08:57] Speaker 1: of Man coming in his kingdom, which means some of
[1:09:00] Speaker 1: them had to have tasted death before the transfiguration, but
[1:09:03] Speaker 1: none of them did Transfiguration was only six days later.
[1:09:07] Speaker 4: I disagree because he only took three of them with
[1:09:09] Speaker 4: them to the transfiguration.
[1:09:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, but they did anyone die? Did his disciple die?
[1:09:16] Speaker 4: Some died without seeing the Kingdom of God manifested?
[1:09:19] Speaker 1: No, no, no, truly, I tell you there are some standing
[1:09:21] Speaker 1: here who will not taste death before they see the
[1:09:23] Speaker 1: Son of Men coming in his kingdom. So did they
[1:09:27] Speaker 1: die or not? No?
[1:09:30] Speaker 4: No, No.
[1:09:30] Speaker 2: What I'm saying is, oh, I see you're saying.
[1:09:32] Speaker 1: You're saying they didn't get to see transfiguration. Therefore they
[1:09:36] Speaker 1: all died not seeing the transfiguration. Okay, So then I
[1:09:39] Speaker 1: would go to point number two of my argument, which
[1:09:41] Speaker 1: is that the Transfiguration was not a coming at all.
[1:09:44] Speaker 1: It was Jesus just walking up on a mountain. The
[1:09:47] Speaker 1: verbiage we have here is the same thing he says
[1:09:49] Speaker 1: in Matthew twenty four, same thing he says in Matthew
[1:09:52] Speaker 1: twenty five, the same thing he says in Matthew twenty six.
[1:09:55] Speaker 1: He's coming with the angels to repay everybody. He's coming
[1:09:59] Speaker 1: to judge. That's what's coming with the angels. Means. It
[1:10:03] Speaker 1: doesn't mean that I walk up on a mountain that's
[1:10:05] Speaker 1: going not coming.
[1:10:07] Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree. The reason the reason will point one
[1:10:11] Speaker 4: of my argument to the reason why I think it
[1:10:13] Speaker 4: is a transfiguration is because in all of the the
[1:10:16] Speaker 4: Synoptic Gospels that every every everything follows with the sum
[1:10:21] Speaker 4: after eight days the saying took place that he took Peter,
[1:10:23] Speaker 4: John and James with him. So I think I don't
[1:10:25] Speaker 4: think it's by coincidence that it was the event that
[1:10:27] Speaker 4: happened right after in the Gospels. No, I think it was.
[1:10:30] Speaker 1: I agree with you. I think the gospel authors, whoever
[1:10:34] Speaker 1: they were, interpreted the transfiguration as being the fulfillment of them.
[1:10:37] Speaker 1: But I don't think the gospel authors were truth tellers
[1:10:40] Speaker 1: or intelligent, So like, I really don't care what the
[1:10:43] Speaker 1: gospel authors think.
[1:10:45] Speaker 2: HM.
[1:10:47] Speaker 4: So in Luke nine, it doesn't because I have all
[1:10:50] Speaker 4: three of the Synoptic Gospels right here where it talks
[1:10:53] Speaker 4: about it, because I know they kind of say a
[1:10:55] Speaker 4: little bit differently. So in Luke nin, for instance, he says,
[1:11:00] Speaker 4: but I say to you truthfully that there is some
[1:11:01] Speaker 4: saying here who will not taste death until they see
[1:11:04] Speaker 4: the Kingdom of God. So I don't think he's not
[1:11:07] Speaker 4: necessarily saying that they're not gonna someone not taste death
[1:11:10] Speaker 4: until they see him is coming with the angels. They're saying,
[1:11:12] Speaker 4: until he sees the coming, or until I'm sorry, until
[1:11:14] Speaker 4: they see the Kingdom of God manifested in the flesh.
[1:11:17] Speaker 2: And well, see.
[1:11:19] Speaker 1: This is the problem you have is Luke was written
[1:11:21] Speaker 1: so much later than even Matthew that you've got a
[1:11:25] Speaker 1: transition of the Kingdom the Kingdom in the Gospel of Luke.
[1:11:29] Speaker 1: Isn't Jesus coming back the Kingdom? And says in Gospel
[1:11:33] Speaker 1: Luke says, you won't even see it. You won't say,
[1:11:34] Speaker 1: look over there, here it is. It's actually already here,
[1:11:37] Speaker 1: It's already among you. That's unique to the Gospel of Luke.
[1:11:41] Speaker 1: Luke is written so late that he's now trying to
[1:11:43] Speaker 1: figure out what the coming of the Kingdom is if
[1:11:47] Speaker 1: it wasn't the coming of the second Coming of Jesus,
[1:11:49] Speaker 1: because Jesus clearly didn't come back yet.
[1:11:53] Speaker 4: Okay, I see what you're saying.
[1:11:54] Speaker 1: It's a reaction.
[1:11:56] Speaker 4: I see your point. So Mark not, do you think
[1:11:59] Speaker 4: would you you would say, like Mark Knight is Mark
[1:12:01] Speaker 4: nine would be the most original?
[1:12:03] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[1:12:04] Speaker 4: I would yeah, Okay, So in Mark nine, it says
[1:12:08] Speaker 4: Mark nine. In verse one, it says, and Jesus was
[1:12:10] Speaker 4: saying to them, truly, I say too that there are
[1:12:12] Speaker 4: some here standing here who will not taste death until
[1:12:14] Speaker 4: they see the Kingdom of God after he has come
[1:12:16] Speaker 4: with power.
[1:12:17] Speaker 1: Right.
[1:12:17] Speaker 4: I still think even I'm sorry.
[1:12:19] Speaker 1: I agree with you guys coming with power. M m.
[1:12:23] Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I was I was saying. I still
[1:12:25] Speaker 4: think even with that that terminology that the Mark used
[1:12:29] Speaker 4: or where he was recording Jesus, I think that you
[1:12:32] Speaker 4: could still subscribe that to the fact of the transfiguration,
[1:12:35] Speaker 4: of that of him correlating that to the transfiguration, because
[1:12:39] Speaker 4: he doesn't say anything. He doesn't mention the angels, he
[1:12:41] Speaker 4: doesn't mention him coming to judge or to rain. He
[1:12:44] Speaker 4: just says, until he sees the Kingdom of God come
[1:12:46] Speaker 4: with his power. And that's what we saw the transfiguration.
[1:12:49] Speaker 1: Right, But Jesus talks about the coming of the Kingdom
[1:12:51] Speaker 1: of God on many occasions and it's not the transfiguration.
[1:12:56] Speaker 1: In fact, he talked about the coming of the Kingdom
[1:12:58] Speaker 1: after the transfigure.
[1:13:01] Speaker 4: In Matthew twenty four.
[1:13:02] Speaker 11: Right.
[1:13:02] Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, I just don't that's argue.
[1:13:09] Speaker 1: So I understand why you want the transfiguration to be
[1:13:13] Speaker 1: the fulfillment of Matthew sixteen, because otherwise it looks like
[1:13:15] Speaker 1: Jesus made a false prediction. But when you interpret it
[1:13:19] Speaker 1: as a second coming, it matches everything else Jesus said, Jesus,
[1:13:23] Speaker 1: this isn't like a lone incident. Like if this was
[1:13:27] Speaker 1: just a rogue verse, like this was a saying that
[1:13:31] Speaker 1: didn't have parallels elsewhere, then I might say, yeah, you know,
[1:13:35] Speaker 1: maybe we don't fully understand what Jesus is trying to
[1:13:37] Speaker 1: say here, but he said it so many times in
[1:13:40] Speaker 1: the gospels, Like why would I take this specific time
[1:13:43] Speaker 1: and be like, well, this specific time it means something
[1:13:46] Speaker 1: different than the other times.
[1:13:48] Speaker 4: Yeah, no, one hundred percent agree with you, Like I mean,
[1:13:50] Speaker 4: especially in Matthew sixteen, where it's clearly talking about the
[1:13:53] Speaker 4: judgment right like him coming, it is clearly talking about
[1:13:56] Speaker 4: the angels, like there's no way of getting around that.
[1:13:59] Speaker 4: It's just my view. My kind of position on that
[1:14:01] Speaker 4: would be that he was he was showing the three
[1:14:05] Speaker 4: disciples a form of the Kingdom of God before they
[1:14:07] Speaker 4: That's why I said some of you will taste death
[1:14:10] Speaker 4: before some of you will not taste death until you
[1:14:11] Speaker 4: see the Kingdom of God because they were giving He
[1:14:14] Speaker 4: was giving them a taste of his divine essence. And
[1:14:18] Speaker 4: I mean Moses appeared, Elijah appeared, so it was kind
[1:14:21] Speaker 4: of like him showing as like a taste and then
[1:14:24] Speaker 4: later obviously he would come back with divine glory as well.
[1:14:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is what you know. I had a
[1:14:30] Speaker 1: pastor when I was young who said it's part of
[1:14:34] Speaker 1: the uh part but not yet or what the hell
[1:14:40] Speaker 1: was that saying partly now but not not yet full?
[1:14:44] Speaker 1: I don't know. He had some weird so he was
[1:14:45] Speaker 1: from Texas. Texas people have lots of weird sayings. He
[1:14:48] Speaker 1: had some slogan that he used to say that basically
[1:14:53] Speaker 1: the underlying premise was that like all we have right
[1:14:56] Speaker 1: now is a taste and then everything else comes when
[1:14:58] Speaker 1: Jesus comes back to second time. But like to me,
[1:15:01] Speaker 1: I think this is like this is kind of silly
[1:15:04] Speaker 1: because I don't think he did anything the first time,
[1:15:06] Speaker 1: Like what good is it for him to like give
[1:15:09] Speaker 1: three of the disciples this neat little vision when it
[1:15:12] Speaker 1: seems to be like he's actually promising much more than
[1:15:15] Speaker 1: that elsewhere, Like he's promising that he's going to be
[1:15:18] Speaker 1: coming back with all of the angels with a loud
[1:15:20] Speaker 1: trumpet call. He's going to collect all the elect from
[1:15:23] Speaker 1: the ends of the earth, from under all of heaven,
[1:15:26] Speaker 1: and then he's going to judge mankind. And he says
[1:15:28] Speaker 1: this is going to happen before this generation passes away.
[1:15:32] Speaker 2: Which seems I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
[1:15:35] Speaker 1: It seems to match to Matthew sixteen. The same thing
[1:15:37] Speaker 1: he said in Matthew ten twenty three he says the
[1:15:40] Speaker 1: same thing when he sends the disciples out to the villages.
[1:15:43] Speaker 1: He said, you guys won't even finish going through all
[1:15:46] Speaker 1: these villages before the Son of Man comes back.
[1:15:50] Speaker 4: I haven't looked at I haven't looked at that passage yet.
[1:15:53] Speaker 4: But as far as Matthew twenty four, I also have
[1:15:56] Speaker 4: like a position on that. I want to see what
[1:15:59] Speaker 4: you thought about it.
[1:16:00] Speaker 1: Well, well, I mean, I assume it's an interesting one
[1:16:03] Speaker 1: because you had an interesting interpretation of Matthew sixteen. Not
[1:16:08] Speaker 1: the fact that the transfiguration was interesting, that's pretty mundane,
[1:16:11] Speaker 1: but your take on how the sum actually played into
[1:16:15] Speaker 1: it was a little bit unique. So I'm curious to
[1:16:18] Speaker 1: know what you do with Matthew twenty four. If I
[1:16:21] Speaker 1: had to wager, I'd say, you're gonna do something fun
[1:16:23] Speaker 1: with the word generation.
[1:16:25] Speaker 4: No not, I don't know. I completely believe that Jesus
[1:16:28] Speaker 4: what Jesus meant by a generation. But yeah, I don't.
[1:16:32] Speaker 4: I saw like the ones about like the temple and
[1:16:35] Speaker 4: stuff like that. I don't really think that that was
[1:16:37] Speaker 4: a compelling argument. The one I did find compelling that
[1:16:41] Speaker 4: if you go down to when he first mentions let
[1:16:44] Speaker 4: me see Matthew twenty four, when he mentions Daniel.
[1:16:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, when you see them surrounding head to the hills, Yes.
[1:16:53] Speaker 4: I think. So everything before that was like showing like
[1:16:57] Speaker 4: the the signs or the warnings of his coming. And
[1:17:00] Speaker 4: then when he mentioned Daniel, you you can you can
[1:17:03] Speaker 4: understand that he's going straight into the context of the tribulation.
[1:17:06] Speaker 4: So when he says that this generation will not pass,
[1:17:08] Speaker 4: he's talking about the generation currently there, because it's a
[1:17:11] Speaker 4: seven year time period of the tribulation.
[1:17:14] Speaker 1: Yes, the generation currently living while he's talking.
[1:17:17] Speaker 4: Ye see, I don't. I don't get that under And
[1:17:19] Speaker 4: I go and I'm trying to look through this through
[1:17:21] Speaker 4: a non biased view. When I actually read that, I
[1:17:24] Speaker 4: look at I see it as him saying to that
[1:17:26] Speaker 4: generation during that time, because he understood that there's readers
[1:17:29] Speaker 4: that we're gonna be reading this tape.
[1:17:30] Speaker 1: Ezekiel, you just solved it. What words? What word did
[1:17:35] Speaker 1: you just say before generation?
[1:17:40] Speaker 4: I'm not sure what he said.
[1:17:41] Speaker 1: He said that generation. That generation is a distant generation,
[1:17:46] Speaker 1: it's a future generation. It's a different generation. This generation
[1:17:50] Speaker 1: means this generation. And this is this is clear in
[1:17:55] Speaker 1: English and in Greek. Yeah.
[1:17:57] Speaker 4: But let let's say I'm writing a letter, right and
[1:17:59] Speaker 4: I'm writing it to my future grandparents. Let's say let's
[1:18:02] Speaker 4: say I'm some sort of profit, just for context, and
[1:18:04] Speaker 4: I'm writing to writing to my future grandkids, and I'm saying,
[1:18:08] Speaker 4: by this year, this generation will have to go through this.
[1:18:12] Speaker 4: When you're understanding it through that context, you can understand
[1:18:15] Speaker 4: that Jesus was talking to that generation that would be
[1:18:18] Speaker 4: going through the tribulation at that time. That's why as
[1:18:21] Speaker 4: soon as he started in Daniel, when you mentioned Daniel,
[1:18:23] Speaker 4: the beginning of the tribulation, it's a seven year time period,
[1:18:26] Speaker 4: so it makes sense to say that this generation will
[1:18:28] Speaker 4: not pass. Talking about the generation that has to go
[1:18:31] Speaker 4: through the tribulation will not pass until they taste death
[1:18:33] Speaker 4: or until they see all these things come to pass.
[1:18:36] Speaker 1: So listen to what Matthew says is truly, I tell you,
[1:18:39] Speaker 1: this generation will not pass until all these things have
[1:18:43] Speaker 1: taken place. What are all these things? That's obviously all
[1:18:45] Speaker 1: the signs that were given prior in chapter twenty four,
[1:18:49] Speaker 1: and he's saying that this generation shall not pass away. Now,
[1:18:52] Speaker 1: if he's actually saying that future generation, not this generation,
[1:18:56] Speaker 1: then it's a redundant statement. It's a meaningless statement. The
[1:18:59] Speaker 1: statement has no actual function because obviously the generation that
[1:19:04] Speaker 1: witnesses the things are going to be alive. You don't
[1:19:07] Speaker 1: have to say that if I said, you know, Sarah,
[1:19:10] Speaker 1: you know when I come back from the grocery store,
[1:19:13] Speaker 1: Sarah is going to be uh, you know, alive to
[1:19:17] Speaker 1: see it. When when she sees me come back from
[1:19:19] Speaker 1: the grocery store, she'll be alive to see it. Well, yeah,
[1:19:22] Speaker 1: no kidding, because she's going to see me come back
[1:19:24] Speaker 1: from the grocery store. So like this idea that this
[1:19:27] Speaker 1: future generation who's going to witness something they're going to
[1:19:30] Speaker 1: be alive when they witness it is a meaningless statement.
[1:19:32] Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense.
[1:19:35] Speaker 4: I don't I don't see I don't I personally just
[1:19:37] Speaker 4: disagree with that for the reason being.
[1:19:39] Speaker 1: That, wait, can you be dead while witnessing something?
[1:19:43] Speaker 4: No, no, but there's gonna be people alive during the tribulation.
[1:19:46] Speaker 1: No no, no, no, no, you're not hearing what I'm saying.
[1:19:48] Speaker 1: I think you may have missed to what I'm saying.
[1:19:50] Speaker 1: If he's talking about a distant future generation and he's saying,
[1:19:55] Speaker 1: this generation who sees all these signs, some of them
[1:19:59] Speaker 1: are going to be you know, they're going to be alive. Yeah, right,
[1:20:03] Speaker 1: but they can't see them if they're dead. They have
[1:20:05] Speaker 1: to be alive. That's just a given, which means the
[1:20:08] Speaker 1: statement's useless. It doesn't have any purpose to be here.
[1:20:12] Speaker 4: I may not be catching. Can you explain? I'm sorry
[1:20:14] Speaker 4: when we're okay, yeah.
[1:20:15] Speaker 1: Okay, So Jesus says, truly, I tell you, this generation
[1:20:19] Speaker 1: will not pass away until all these things have taken place.
[1:20:23] Speaker 1: The generation that's if you think this is a future
[1:20:25] Speaker 1: generation that's going to be living when these things take place,
[1:20:29] Speaker 1: obviously they're not going to pass away because that's the
[1:20:32] Speaker 1: generation living when the things happen. Like we it's assumed
[1:20:36] Speaker 1: that they're going to be alive or else they wouldn't
[1:20:38] Speaker 1: be the generation. Okay, the statement has no meaning, no purpose.
[1:20:44] Speaker 1: If you think that it's about a future generation.
[1:20:47] Speaker 4: This generation will not pass away.
[1:20:50] Speaker 1: It's yeah, obviously if that generation is the generation that
[1:20:54] Speaker 1: these signs happen to, yeah, obviously they're going to be alive.
[1:20:57] Speaker 1: They're the ones happening is happening to mm hmm. You
[1:21:01] Speaker 1: don't have to say that.
[1:21:05] Speaker 4: Okay, let me let me try to read this one
[1:21:07] Speaker 4: more time.
[1:21:10] Speaker 1: And I understand this argument. This of the many apologists
[1:21:13] Speaker 1: argument for this passage, this is the only one that
[1:21:17] Speaker 1: really helps the situation. But I don't think it's a
[1:21:20] Speaker 1: good argument.
[1:21:21] Speaker 2: So unfortunately, I'm sorry, I'm sorry what we're saying.
[1:21:25] Speaker 1: I unfortunately, I don't think you're going to get the
[1:21:28] Speaker 1: satisfaction that you want out of this particular argument.
[1:21:32] Speaker 4: Oh so saying true, I say to you, this generation
[1:21:35] Speaker 4: will not pass away, and so all these things take place.
[1:21:38] Speaker 4: I get what you're saying. I just don't think he's
[1:21:41] Speaker 4: meeting it in a when I say, I don't know
[1:21:46] Speaker 4: how to explain kind of what I'm thinking, you don't
[1:21:50] Speaker 4: think that, so like kind of like what I'm saying, Like,
[1:21:52] Speaker 4: let's say I'm a prophet, right, and I'm writing a
[1:21:54] Speaker 4: letter to a future generation. When I'm saying like this
[1:21:57] Speaker 4: generation will not pass away.
[1:21:58] Speaker 1: This is not a letter to a future gener He's
[1:22:00] Speaker 1: talking to his disciples, and he's specifically answering the question
[1:22:04] Speaker 1: what signs should we look for?
[1:22:08] Speaker 4: And that's my point. If you go through all the
[1:22:11] Speaker 4: other signs from verse let's go to verse four, all
[1:22:15] Speaker 4: the way through verse twenty eight, there are all signs
[1:22:19] Speaker 4: before the tribulation. That's why in verse twenty nine when
[1:22:21] Speaker 4: he mentions Daniel, that's the beginning of the tribulation. That's
[1:22:26] Speaker 4: why it can't be the generation that he's talking to,
[1:22:29] Speaker 4: because all these things had to take place before that.
[1:22:32] Speaker 1: No, I disagree. He thought that all those things were
[1:22:34] Speaker 1: happening in his lifetime. That's why in the very next
[1:22:37] Speaker 1: chapter Matthew twenty six, he paraphrases Daniel when he's talking
[1:22:42] Speaker 1: to the high priest. Well, he says, you know here
[1:22:46] Speaker 1: after you'll see me coming on the clouds. It's Danel
[1:22:49] Speaker 1: chapter seven. He told the actual leader of the Pharisees
[1:22:53] Speaker 1: that he's gonna witness it.
[1:22:58] Speaker 4: Can you show me where that is if you don't mind.
[1:23:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, Matthew twenty six says, but Jesus was silent. Then
[1:23:03] Speaker 1: the High Priest said to him, I put you under
[1:23:06] Speaker 1: oath before the Living God. Tell us if you are
[1:23:08] Speaker 1: the Messiah, the Son of God. And Jesus said to him,
[1:23:11] Speaker 1: you have said so, But I tell you, from now
[1:23:13] Speaker 1: on you will see the Son of Man seated on
[1:23:16] Speaker 1: the right hand of power, in coming on the clouds
[1:23:18] Speaker 1: of heaven, which is the scene from Daniel chapter seven.
[1:23:24] Speaker 4: Right, I haven't I haven't looked into that that passage yet,
[1:23:28] Speaker 4: but I'm asking you because I'm not sure. Would you
[1:23:31] Speaker 4: say that that could be the moment at Pentecost?
[1:23:34] Speaker 1: No? No, this is directly what he thought was going
[1:23:36] Speaker 1: to So this is where the Son of Man actually
[1:23:38] Speaker 1: comes from. Are you familiar with the Son of Man terminology?
[1:23:43] Speaker 4: The only one I'm familiar with is kind of where
[1:23:45] Speaker 4: it's mentioned in Daniel.
[1:23:46] Speaker 1: Okay, So there's like, there was a huge tradition that
[1:23:49] Speaker 1: blew up around this Son of Man figure, and the
[1:23:53] Speaker 1: book of Daniel picks up on it. But the Son
[1:23:54] Speaker 1: of Man is a messianic title based on an interpretation
[1:23:59] Speaker 1: of Daniel chapter seven, where it says I saw one
[1:24:02] Speaker 1: like a human being coming with clouds of heaven. And
[1:24:05] Speaker 1: he came to the ancient One and was presented before
[1:24:07] Speaker 1: him to him, was given dominion and glory and kingship,
[1:24:11] Speaker 1: that all people, nations and language should serve him, and
[1:24:14] Speaker 1: so on and so forth. So this when Jesus says
[1:24:16] Speaker 1: that he's going to be you know, ceded to you know,
[1:24:20] Speaker 1: God on the throne and coming on the clouds, this
[1:24:23] Speaker 1: is what he's referring to as Daniel seven. And that's
[1:24:26] Speaker 1: what the Son of Man was supposed to do. If
[1:24:29] Speaker 1: you read the Kuman literature and read the Book of
[1:24:31] Speaker 1: Enoch and read even like the book of Second Esdras,
[1:24:35] Speaker 1: this idea of the Son of Man coming on the
[1:24:38] Speaker 1: clouds is the supposed fulfillment of Daniel chapter seven. But
[1:24:43] Speaker 1: it's not like it's not a vision. It's not a
[1:24:46] Speaker 1: dream that somebody had. It's like a literal judgment where
[1:24:49] Speaker 1: the throne room is pulled forward and all the people
[1:24:51] Speaker 1: are judged.
[1:24:53] Speaker 4: I see what you're saying. Okay, that's a good point.
[1:24:55] Speaker 4: I don't have to do more research on that, but
[1:24:57] Speaker 4: I'm gonna look definitely looked up.
[1:24:59] Speaker 1: And this is important two, because this is kind of
[1:25:01] Speaker 1: the culmination of twenty four twenty five and twenty six,
[1:25:04] Speaker 1: because the speech in twenty four doesn't end in twenty four,
[1:25:07] Speaker 1: he keeps talking. Most people kind of forget this, They
[1:25:10] Speaker 1: like they get done with twenty four and then they
[1:25:11] Speaker 1: stop reading. But if you keep reading all the way
[1:25:14] Speaker 1: into Matthew twenty five, he tells you what's going to
[1:25:18] Speaker 1: happen when whatever this generation, when he comes back, it's
[1:25:22] Speaker 1: going to be the judgment. That's why he gives the
[1:25:25] Speaker 1: parable of the ten Brides to be paid to not
[1:25:28] Speaker 1: be patient, but to be on the lookout for my coming.
[1:25:31] Speaker 1: And then when he comes, what's he gonna do. He's
[1:25:33] Speaker 1: gonna set up the throne of judgment and judge all mankind,
[1:25:36] Speaker 1: the same thing he said in chapter twenty four. So like,
[1:25:39] Speaker 1: if you're just taking twenty four, twenty five, and twenty
[1:25:42] Speaker 1: six in context, it all seems to be about the
[1:25:44] Speaker 1: same event, Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven as
[1:25:47] Speaker 1: predicted in Daniel chapter seven and judging mankind and taking dominion.
[1:25:53] Speaker 4: Yeah, and that I would agree with. That's why you
[1:25:56] Speaker 4: made a good point about why he told the Pharisees
[1:25:58] Speaker 4: that that I haven't looked into. Yeah, one hundred percent agree.
[1:26:01] Speaker 4: I think it's the same context of what he's talking about.
[1:26:04] Speaker 1: Right, But the arguments that you've come up with, Like
[1:26:08] Speaker 1: I don't know if you're using apologetics press or you know,
[1:26:11] Speaker 1: got a questions.
[1:26:11] Speaker 4: I just kind of looked them up myself.
[1:26:14] Speaker 1: The apologist answers that you've come up with, to be fair,
[1:26:17] Speaker 1: are the better ones. I've heard way worse apologetic answers
[1:26:21] Speaker 1: for these problems, and I think those are the probably
[1:26:25] Speaker 1: the most convincing of them. I just don't find any
[1:26:28] Speaker 1: of them to be convincing or true to the text.
[1:26:32] Speaker 4: Yeah, I understand what you're saying about what. I appreciate
[1:26:36] Speaker 4: you bringing some of the stuff, folks. It challenges me
[1:26:38] Speaker 4: to go research and stuff, so I appreciate it.
[1:26:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, and listen, we appreciate you come up here and
[1:26:42] Speaker 1: being kind. I know it's hard to get on a
[1:26:44] Speaker 1: live stream in front of a bunch of people and
[1:26:47] Speaker 1: be told that your your savior was a liar. I
[1:26:49] Speaker 1: get it. It's not a fun thing to participate in.
[1:26:53] Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, I did. I wanted to ask you to.
[1:26:57] Speaker 4: I heard you mentioned the Book of Enoch. What do
[1:27:00] Speaker 4: you when I read that? I read it for the
[1:27:01] Speaker 4: first time today and all the way through. But I
[1:27:04] Speaker 4: did see like when when Enoch prophesied, I believe it
[1:27:08] Speaker 4: was in the when he was talking about the Son
[1:27:10] Speaker 4: of Man. I forgot what, yes, yeah, And there was
[1:27:15] Speaker 4: a couple of other ones. I think it was like
[1:27:16] Speaker 4: sixty something. I read a couple of the chapters. It
[1:27:20] Speaker 4: seems it seemed like it was more descriptive than even
[1:27:24] Speaker 4: like Isaiah was about Jesus. And I wanted to hear
[1:27:27] Speaker 4: your view about that.
[1:27:27] Speaker 1: Okay, So if you were of the opinion that maybe
[1:27:31] Speaker 1: the early Christians had this conception of Jesus that was
[1:27:35] Speaker 1: based on Enochic literature, you'd be one hundred percent correct.
[1:27:38] Speaker 1: The Enochic literature and this, this manifestation of the Son
[1:27:42] Speaker 1: of Man is exactly why Jesus has described the way
[1:27:46] Speaker 1: he's described in the New Testament. And the Book of
[1:27:49] Speaker 1: Enoch was very influential to the sect at Kriman and
[1:27:53] Speaker 1: to the other scenes, which seems to be the group
[1:27:57] Speaker 1: of people that gave rise to the Jesus movement. So
[1:27:59] Speaker 1: I don't find it surprising at all that they thought
[1:28:02] Speaker 1: that this Enochic literature was important. And even in the
[1:28:06] Speaker 1: Book of Jude, what does Jude say about Enoch? Because
[1:28:08] Speaker 1: Jude and second Peter Booth quote from Enoch and Jude
[1:28:10] Speaker 1: says it was about these that Enoch the seventh generation
[1:28:14] Speaker 1: from Adam prophesied, saying, see the Lord is coming with
[1:28:17] Speaker 1: ten thousands of his holy ones, which is a direct
[1:28:20] Speaker 1: quote from first Enoch, like chapter nine, and so like
[1:28:25] Speaker 1: the Bible says Enoch was a prophet.
[1:28:28] Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I was going to actually say. My
[1:28:31] Speaker 4: personal belief, I do think that at least the first
[1:28:33] Speaker 4: portions of Enoch should be considered scriptures because of that
[1:28:36] Speaker 4: Jude scripture. I like, because he literally said he prophesied.
[1:28:40] Speaker 4: It's not like he said he wrote, or he you know,
[1:28:43] Speaker 4: was interpreted like he prophesied. So it was obviously they
[1:28:45] Speaker 4: considered a scripture during that time. Yeah, so that's the
[1:28:48] Speaker 4: reason I personally kind of hold it to a high regard.
[1:28:51] Speaker 4: I'm still I haven't read it fully yet, but when
[1:28:53] Speaker 4: it talks about like, you know, the Son of Man,
[1:28:55] Speaker 4: and it kind of seems like it describes Jesus pretty
[1:28:57] Speaker 4: pretty heavy. Look, I never read most of it, but
[1:29:01] Speaker 4: what do you kind of think about that? From what
[1:29:04] Speaker 4: I understand is, did most most Jews did kind of
[1:29:06] Speaker 4: consider it scripture? Right for an early portion before Jesus.
[1:29:10] Speaker 1: Well, that's the problem is Judaism was really fractured in
[1:29:13] Speaker 1: the first century. So, for example, the Sadducees didn't believe
[1:29:17] Speaker 1: anything was from God. After the Torah, the first five
[1:29:20] Speaker 1: books of Moses were given by God and then that
[1:29:22] Speaker 1: was it. The Pharisees believed in the Torah plus the
[1:29:26] Speaker 1: prophets and also the writings, and then you had like
[1:29:30] Speaker 1: non Phariseaic Jews, like the Ascenes or the Zelots, who
[1:29:35] Speaker 1: primarily those two groups were engaging with the extra biblical
[1:29:39] Speaker 1: literature like the Enochic Liger and things like that, and
[1:29:42] Speaker 1: trying to really push this Messianic movement. And it's not
[1:29:46] Speaker 1: to say that some of the Pharisees didn't really get
[1:29:49] Speaker 1: pulled into Messiahism. And some of the Enochic literature, like
[1:29:53] Speaker 1: the angelology that developed during the Second Temple period is
[1:29:56] Speaker 1: well supported in the writings of the Zettolomid. So if
[1:29:58] Speaker 1: you read the writings of the Talmud, you'll learn how
[1:30:00] Speaker 1: like Enoch became an archangel named Metatron and different things
[1:30:06] Speaker 1: like that, and so, but by and large, I would
[1:30:10] Speaker 1: say that the Sadducees and the Pharisees were not of
[1:30:15] Speaker 1: the same mindset about Enoch and the apocryphal books as
[1:30:19] Speaker 1: the scenes and the Zalods would have been.
[1:30:23] Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, that makes that makes really that makes a
[1:30:25] Speaker 4: lot of sense.
[1:30:26] Speaker 1: Yeah. And they hated the septuagen the Greek translation. Yeah,
[1:30:31] Speaker 1: they said it was the only thing. The only thing
[1:30:34] Speaker 1: more lowsome than the translation into the Greek scriptures was
[1:30:39] Speaker 1: the day that Aaron allowed them to make a golden calf.
[1:30:43] Speaker 4: Man. That's pretty crazy, pretty bad, I'll get by the way,
[1:30:48] Speaker 4: by the said, tu agent do, I'm curious just about
[1:30:51] Speaker 4: what you think, because obviously you studied this way more
[1:30:53] Speaker 4: than I have. What do you think about the apocrypha?
[1:30:56] Speaker 1: So I love the apocrypha. In fact, I tell my audience,
[1:30:59] Speaker 1: don't buy that doesn't contain the apocrypha, mind does? You
[1:31:03] Speaker 1: can do NRSV with apocrypha. NABI, the New Revised Jerusalem
[1:31:08] Speaker 1: has the apocrypha. There's a bunch of them now that
[1:31:11] Speaker 1: include it by default. But listen, if you want to
[1:31:15] Speaker 1: read the Christian Bible, then read it with the apocrypha.
[1:31:18] Speaker 1: It makes a lot more sense. The New Testament. There's
[1:31:22] Speaker 1: so much in the New Testament that relies on the
[1:31:24] Speaker 1: apocryphal works. It'll make more sense once you've actually bothered
[1:31:27] Speaker 1: to read the apocryphal works. Otherwise, the New Testament seems
[1:31:31] Speaker 1: very disjointed from the Old Testament, Like where this where
[1:31:34] Speaker 1: do this hell concept come from? Where people are burning
[1:31:36] Speaker 1: and there's wailing and gnashing of teeth that's not in
[1:31:38] Speaker 1: the Old Testament anywhere, but it certainly is in the apocryphon.
[1:31:43] Speaker 4: So why do you think so many Jews like disregarded
[1:31:46] Speaker 4: it as a scripture.
[1:31:48] Speaker 1: Well, there's a couple of reasons, I think, primarily because
[1:31:52] Speaker 1: it didn't have like the authenticity and the antiquity, And
[1:31:55] Speaker 1: in fact, even the Book of Daniel nearly didn't make
[1:31:58] Speaker 1: it into the Jewish canon because of the same problems.
[1:32:01] Speaker 1: And so when it came to canonicity, typically what they
[1:32:06] Speaker 1: were looking for was somebody who was confirmed to be
[1:32:09] Speaker 1: an actual prophet. And the problem that you have with
[1:32:12] Speaker 1: Enoch is Enoch lived so long ago that the writings
[1:32:18] Speaker 1: that they had would have been three thousand years later.
[1:32:20] Speaker 1: You can't confirm any authenticity of that, whereas like the
[1:32:24] Speaker 1: writings of Isaiah. If Isaiah lived in the seventh century
[1:32:27] Speaker 1: and we've got texts in Biblical Hebrew from only two
[1:32:31] Speaker 1: or three hundred years later. Well, that's a pretty short
[1:32:34] Speaker 1: gap of time, but three thousand years that's a huge
[1:32:37] Speaker 1: gap of time.
[1:32:38] Speaker 4: Yeah. Also, okay, I see what you're saying.
[1:32:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's hard to you know. It reads much
[1:32:45] Speaker 1: more like mythology, which is why they didn't accept Like
[1:32:48] Speaker 1: all of these narratives that were supposedly written by ancient people,
[1:32:53] Speaker 1: like the Testament of the of the Twelve Patriarchs and
[1:32:56] Speaker 1: different things like that, those were all considered myth logical writings.
[1:33:01] Speaker 1: They weren't true, and one of the biggest reasons was
[1:33:03] Speaker 1: because we have no chain of authenticity.
[1:33:07] Speaker 4: Got you. Yeah, that makes that makes sense. So you personally,
[1:33:11] Speaker 4: so do you? I mean, obviously you're not a Christian,
[1:33:13] Speaker 4: but do you think like you should consider the apocryphal scripture,
[1:33:16] Speaker 4: like if you were a Christian.
[1:33:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're a Christian, you should think of the
[1:33:19] Speaker 1: apocryphied scripture. In fact, should be a DM. I'm going
[1:33:22] Speaker 1: to send you an article or I'll send you a
[1:33:25] Speaker 1: word document that'd be easier. I took the time and
[1:33:28] Speaker 1: I wrote down. I went through the first four hundred
[1:33:32] Speaker 1: years of early Christian writing, and I documented every single
[1:33:36] Speaker 1: time they mentioned one of the apocryphal books and what
[1:33:38] Speaker 1: they said about it. And what I discovered is that
[1:33:41] Speaker 1: not a single person mentioned the apocryphal books without saying
[1:33:45] Speaker 1: that it was scripture, without saying that it was inspired
[1:33:47] Speaker 1: by the Holy Spirit, without saying that it was prophetic.
[1:33:50] Speaker 1: All of them agreed that it was from God, it
[1:33:52] Speaker 1: was scripture, it was prophetic, and it was from the
[1:33:54] Speaker 1: Holy Spirit, until Jerome showed up. And then Jerome was like, well,
[1:33:59] Speaker 1: may I don't know, the Jews disagree with us, maybe
[1:34:02] Speaker 1: maybe we should look into this.
[1:34:05] Speaker 8: We don't just talk about the nerdiness of you for
[1:34:07] Speaker 8: doing that just for fun.
[1:34:10] Speaker 1: I got a problem. I got a big problem.
[1:34:13] Speaker 4: I would I would love that article that. I'm definitely
[1:34:15] Speaker 4: gonna send you.
[1:34:15] Speaker 1: A shoot me DM, I've got It'll be a link
[1:34:20] Speaker 1: to a Google document.
[1:34:22] Speaker 4: Okay, awesome, Yeah I don't. I don't really have anything else,
[1:34:26] Speaker 4: but I appreciate you giving me your points and stuff.
[1:34:30] Speaker 4: I'm definitely gonna go do more research. I appreciate that.
[1:34:32] Speaker 1: He thanks Ziegel. We appreciate you coming up here and
[1:34:34] Speaker 1: for being a kind and courteous person.
[1:34:37] Speaker 4: Sir, Thank you, have a good night.
[1:34:39] Speaker 1: Cheers. You know, Sarah, it's funny to me that, like,
[1:34:44] Speaker 1: you've got Christians like that that can have really good,
[1:34:46] Speaker 1: reasonable discussions even if we don't agree. Like listen, he's
[1:34:49] Speaker 1: not an atheist. He didn't leave here an atheist, and
[1:34:52] Speaker 1: I didn't convert to Christianity, And but nobody had to
[1:34:55] Speaker 1: like yell at anybody.
[1:34:57] Speaker 7: Indeed, amazing that can happen, isn't It's weird than Yeah,
[1:35:01] Speaker 7: he was lovely, Like I don't understand why so many
[1:35:04] Speaker 7: Christians get up here and they want to be hostile,
[1:35:06] Speaker 7: like right off the bat, you know what I mean?
[1:35:09] Speaker 8: Like that guy the other day. The last time I
[1:35:11] Speaker 8: was here, Luke.
[1:35:12] Speaker 1: Luke was wild he read his first like philosophy argument
[1:35:19] Speaker 1: and thought he was just like really smart. Now let
[1:35:24] Speaker 1: me grab a couple of super jets and then we'll
[1:35:25] Speaker 1: keep on moving. Uh, Jake, good to see it tonight. Guys,
[1:35:28] Speaker 1: if you're not following Jake's podcast The Exis Brothers, I
[1:35:31] Speaker 1: implore you to give him a listen. Thank you for
[1:35:34] Speaker 1: the super chat. It says, why did Jesus take forty
[1:35:36] Speaker 1: days in the wilderness? Doug doesn't do retreats. He is
[1:35:41] Speaker 1: the mountain. People retreat to praise Doug. That's interesting. Uh, okay,
[1:35:46] Speaker 1: let me. Let me make sure I soak this. And
[1:35:48] Speaker 1: why did Jesus take fourth? Oh yeah, yeah, he had
[1:35:51] Speaker 1: to go into the wilderness to take a retreat. But
[1:35:54] Speaker 1: Doug doesn't do retreats. He is the mountain. People retreat too. Oh,
[1:35:58] Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. Maybe I don't, sir, am
[1:36:00] Speaker 1: I reading this wrong? What am I missing?
[1:36:03] Speaker 8: He is expressing the superiority of Doug because Doug is
[1:36:09] Speaker 8: the mountain. He doesn't need to go to a mountain
[1:36:12] Speaker 8: to go have a retreat.
[1:36:14] Speaker 3: He is a retreat.
[1:36:15] Speaker 1: I see you saying. I mixed the two sentence. Okay,
[1:36:19] Speaker 1: So Jesus took a retreat. Doug does not take a retreat.
[1:36:23] Speaker 1: Jesus took a retreat to Doug because Doug is superior
[1:36:26] Speaker 1: to Jesus. Now it makes sense. Thank you, Sarah, I
[1:36:32] Speaker 1: don't word so good. And one thank you for the
[1:36:38] Speaker 1: supertest says God is positive. God is positive? Oh, God
[1:36:44] Speaker 1: as positive? I'm sorry, I'm gonna guys, I got your glasses.
[1:36:47] Speaker 1: God as positive could explain everything being such a powerful being,
[1:36:51] Speaker 1: But can theis prove that such a being exists in
[1:36:54] Speaker 1: the first place? One? That's actually my point. The whole
[1:36:57] Speaker 1: time is like listen, you can pop the existence.
[1:37:01] Speaker 2: Of the God.
[1:37:01] Speaker 1: You can do it right. But I have no reason
[1:37:04] Speaker 1: to believe in the thing until you give me the
[1:37:05] Speaker 1: evidence for why I should believe in it. Like if
[1:37:08] Speaker 1: I'm going to pick like a cosmic creator, I'm going
[1:37:11] Speaker 1: with magic farting ponies. Ponies every time, Like why would I?
[1:37:16] Speaker 1: Why would I pick something else? I have questions. They're
[1:37:23] Speaker 1: just the magic. They got together, they had a really
[1:37:26] Speaker 1: big sneeze, and then you know that's what happened. The
[1:37:34] Speaker 1: University's eternal. Just look at the trees, Tim, Actually, Tim,
[1:37:38] Speaker 1: I need to use this argument. Someone someone messaged me
[1:37:41] Speaker 1: about this. I need to use the Christian argument. Look
[1:37:43] Speaker 1: at the trees. And but for my position, just say,
[1:37:47] Speaker 1: what do you mean we're created? Obviously we're not created.
[1:37:49] Speaker 1: Just look at the trees. I just want to see
[1:37:51] Speaker 1: how that plays out. I really need to see this.
[1:37:55] Speaker 1: And Doug, thank you for the supertest, says, just watch
[1:37:57] Speaker 1: your appearance on the Tim Poole Show. My condolences and
[1:37:59] Speaker 1: how how bad you were cooked. Hope it's up. Well, Doug,
[1:38:02] Speaker 1: oh dog, you came back. It's been like a year
[1:38:04] Speaker 1: since we talked. Well, apparently the conversation was too far
[1:38:07] Speaker 1: over your head for you to understand any of the
[1:38:09] Speaker 1: talking points. But you're welcome to get into the guest
[1:38:12] Speaker 1: box and name even a single point that they got
[1:38:15] Speaker 1: over in their two v one that actually didn't get rebutted,
[1:38:19] Speaker 1: and I'll be glad to have that discussion with you.
[1:38:22] Speaker 1: But listen, you're welcome to come by and get cooked anytime.
[1:38:25] Speaker 1: I know it's been over a year since you got
[1:38:26] Speaker 1: cooked last and you're probably a little trepidatious. That's fine,
[1:38:29] Speaker 1: that happens. And Andy, thank you for the super tests.
[1:38:32] Speaker 1: I don't know. Also he paid ten dollars to say that. Crazy.
[1:38:39] Speaker 1: I don't know how people want to talk about lack
[1:38:41] Speaker 1: of proof and then demand that we believe something they
[1:38:43] Speaker 1: can't show any proof for. Thanks for what you do.
[1:38:46] Speaker 1: Love listening well, Andy, thank you so much. I can't
[1:38:49] Speaker 1: agree with you any more than that. I whole hardly
[1:38:51] Speaker 1: agree with you. It's weird that they'll admit that there's
[1:38:54] Speaker 1: no lack of proof. But if that was the case,
[1:38:56] Speaker 1: what are you doing here?
[1:38:57] Speaker 4: Like?
[1:38:57] Speaker 1: What's happening? And Bobby says, what does the prophecy in
[1:39:02] Speaker 1: number twenty four to seventeen me? The star rising is
[1:39:05] Speaker 1: that the star prophecy. Pretty sure it is, so I
[1:39:09] Speaker 1: think it's about an actual king.
[1:39:12] Speaker 2: You know.
[1:39:13] Speaker 1: But let me put it on the stream. So it says,
[1:39:16] Speaker 1: I see him, but not now. I behold him, but
[1:39:18] Speaker 1: not near. A star shall come out of Jacob, and
[1:39:22] Speaker 1: a scepter shall rise out of Israel. It shall crush
[1:39:24] Speaker 1: the foeheads of Moab and the heads of all the Chethites.
[1:39:28] Speaker 1: And traditional interpretation has either been this is a king,
[1:39:31] Speaker 1: someone who wields the scepter and defeats Israel's enemies, or
[1:39:35] Speaker 1: it's actually God. God is going to come out and
[1:39:37] Speaker 1: defend Israel because God is the king of Israel. So
[1:39:39] Speaker 1: that's another possible interpretation. The real question is is it Jesus? No,
[1:39:44] Speaker 1: it's not clearly not Jesus. We God tumor super chats
[1:39:48] Speaker 1: and we will keep the conversation role and sands a
[1:39:49] Speaker 1: bar good to see it tonight, says the lack of
[1:39:51] Speaker 1: certainty and scientific ideas about the origins of the universe
[1:39:54] Speaker 1: in no way proves the existence of your God. Also,
[1:39:57] Speaker 1: if Doug is for gods, for God's one, he must
[1:40:01] Speaker 1: be a conglomerate rock. Yes, actually that would be true.
[1:40:06] Speaker 1: I need to ditch the quadrinity and go to a
[1:40:10] Speaker 1: conglomerate deity and Fenn, good to see it, my friend,
[1:40:13] Speaker 1: thank you for the supertest, says Christians like this one
[1:40:16] Speaker 1: don't realize that we can tell everything they've learned about
[1:40:19] Speaker 1: the Big Bang theory was taught from a pulpit and
[1:40:22] Speaker 1: it's comedy goal. Actually, Fenn, that's a really good point. So, like,
[1:40:27] Speaker 1: here's what is interesting to me. When we get the
[1:40:30] Speaker 1: apologists up here. They typically don't know that we've heard
[1:40:34] Speaker 1: all of their talking points, which is weird to me. Like,
[1:40:37] Speaker 1: are they encountering people in the wild that haven't heard
[1:40:40] Speaker 1: these talking points and they just assume that we won't
[1:40:42] Speaker 1: know them either. Yes, well, all right, we're gonna get
[1:40:48] Speaker 1: Remy in the conversation. I tried to get somebody else,
[1:40:51] Speaker 1: but their connection didn't really work. Although it shows shows
[1:40:55] Speaker 1: that they're almost connected. I don't know why. Let me
[1:40:58] Speaker 1: disconnect that trying to connect. Well, see if you can
[1:41:01] Speaker 1: get Remy in the box Rise of as a Zel
[1:41:05] Speaker 1: great name. By the way, W six sixty six says,
[1:41:07] Speaker 1: the idea that there was never nothing as a defense
[1:41:10] Speaker 1: for theism, to me, has always seemed obviously self defeating.
[1:41:15] Speaker 1: It's just so pointlessly or pointlessly special pleading. Yeah, I
[1:41:19] Speaker 1: agree right this This is the problem with science and
[1:41:24] Speaker 1: God is all of the philosophical and scientific arguments for
[1:41:27] Speaker 1: God kind of end up on special pleading, Like you
[1:41:31] Speaker 1: can't get something from nothing except God can do it.
[1:41:35] Speaker 1: You can't have something existing forever except God existed forever.
[1:41:38] Speaker 1: Like it's just endless special pleading. Well, remy is not connecting,
[1:41:42] Speaker 1: so we'll move on to our next guest. Try to
[1:41:49] Speaker 1: get Planet in here. Sometime when people will waiting for
[1:41:52] Speaker 1: a while, it's says they're in the guest box, but
[1:41:54] Speaker 1: they're not actually there. But Planet, how you doing?
[1:41:58] Speaker 12: Yeah, I'm not too bad.
[1:41:59] Speaker 1: How you do? Good? Doing good? Thank you for asking Planet?
[1:42:03] Speaker 1: Are you at least eighteen? And are you a believer?
[1:42:07] Speaker 4: Yep, I'm a believer.
[1:42:08] Speaker 1: And I know cool And which guy do you believe in?
[1:42:13] Speaker 12: Basically, I'll just stay that I'm someone who holds knowledge
[1:42:17] Speaker 12: of certain true divine beings connected to part of our
[1:42:19] Speaker 12: atmospheric system.
[1:42:20] Speaker 2: Oh, this is.
[1:42:23] Speaker 12: I seek truth across all concepts, and the information I
[1:42:26] Speaker 12: share includes both facts and opinions. When something is verified fact,
[1:42:31] Speaker 12: i'll make it clear. Otherwise it may just be my
[1:42:34] Speaker 12: personal opinions basically cool.
[1:42:36] Speaker 1: So I want to make sure I heard you correctly.
[1:42:37] Speaker 1: You said divine beings in the plural.
[1:42:41] Speaker 12: Yeah, So basically, I won't go too deep into it.
[1:42:44] Speaker 12: I just wanted to give you more of the explanation
[1:42:47] Speaker 12: about just the divine being and the great creation of
[1:42:51] Speaker 12: the universe.
[1:42:52] Speaker 1: That's all right. I want to make sure I understand
[1:42:54] Speaker 1: you correctly, So allow me to ask some clarifying questions.
[1:42:57] Speaker 1: You believe in one deity or a multiple DEDs?
[1:43:02] Speaker 12: I know of some some deities basically, but I don't
[1:43:06] Speaker 12: want to confuse the situation because it is quite technical.
[1:43:11] Speaker 1: So well, it's either we understand it's either one or
[1:43:14] Speaker 1: more than one.
[1:43:16] Speaker 12: Yeah, as in it's it's more of a circular concept basically,
[1:43:20] Speaker 12: so there could be more beings, but it's it's entitled
[1:43:23] Speaker 12: as one if you're not, so.
[1:43:26] Speaker 1: It's basically it could be multiple gods and one.
[1:43:31] Speaker 12: It forms a circle, so it's it's consistent of one one.
[1:43:36] Speaker 12: You could say one god if you wanted.
[1:43:37] Speaker 1: To with multiple brains, yeah, I mean you could.
[1:43:42] Speaker 5: You could.
[1:43:43] Speaker 12: You could call them angels or higher beings. But I'll
[1:43:49] Speaker 12: explain more in the future. But it's just I just
[1:43:51] Speaker 12: want to get some concepts about.
[1:43:54] Speaker 4: Just the creation.
[1:43:55] Speaker 8: Oh nothing, it's just literally scratching my head.
[1:43:58] Speaker 1: So what makes the on one god in not multiple gods?
[1:44:05] Speaker 12: So basically, I just want to say, just before I continue,
[1:44:08] Speaker 12: if I if anything that I say makes you feel
[1:44:10] Speaker 12: comfortable offended, please don't hesitate to let me know. If
[1:44:13] Speaker 12: at any point you prefer me that I step away,
[1:44:16] Speaker 12: just say so. I'm just here to offer guidance. I
[1:44:18] Speaker 12: don't want to intrude or impose on anyone's space. Yeah,
[1:44:21] Speaker 12: and hope you understand that I may not internalize some
[1:44:25] Speaker 12: of your arguments.
[1:44:26] Speaker 1: I my safe word is gigawatts.
[1:44:29] Speaker 12: Okay, So yeah, I might not internalize it because I
[1:44:32] Speaker 12: already know it could it is probably incorrect. So it's
[1:44:35] Speaker 12: not that I'm willing to listen to your points, but
[1:44:37] Speaker 12: it's just rather I just choose not to direct my
[1:44:39] Speaker 12: focus towards something I believe is flawed.
[1:44:43] Speaker 2: So if you do say.
[1:44:44] Speaker 12: Something, I will try to understand your views, But forgive
[1:44:48] Speaker 12: me if I if I just dismiss it, and so
[1:44:51] Speaker 12: can I can I just information peace?
[1:44:55] Speaker 2: Well?
[1:44:55] Speaker 1: I think we need to know, like the god concept
[1:44:59] Speaker 1: that you're defending the before you can defend it. So
[1:45:01] Speaker 1: it sounds to me like you believe in like a
[1:45:03] Speaker 1: many gods in the one right.
[1:45:06] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[1:45:06] Speaker 12: So basically you could say, in regards to the Christians
[1:45:11] Speaker 12: that Abrahamic faith, they had the concept of trinity. So
[1:45:16] Speaker 12: in regards to trinity they believe, well, some of them
[1:45:20] Speaker 12: don't believe it exists, but it is mentioned in the Bible.
[1:45:24] Speaker 12: It mentions it as the Holy Ghost farther than the spirits.
[1:45:29] Speaker 12: What people they don't fully understand it. It's part of
[1:45:33] Speaker 12: like God being the head guardians, and then you've got
[1:45:37] Speaker 12: the angels, and then you've got the descendants of God
[1:45:40] Speaker 12: and the angels. So they all form a circular concept. Basically,
[1:45:44] Speaker 12: a lot of them they think it's a trinity. They
[1:45:46] Speaker 12: think it's a triangle, but the concept is actually a
[1:45:48] Speaker 12: circle basically. So it's in regards to the whole planet.
[1:45:53] Speaker 12: You have to understand that when it comes to God
[1:45:56] Speaker 12: or higher beings, it's not directly in just one part
[1:45:59] Speaker 12: of the planet. So you should be you should understand
[1:46:02] Speaker 12: that they would form other religions and they would be
[1:46:06] Speaker 12: the same being.
[1:46:08] Speaker 8: Are these these are physical beings that and do you
[1:46:12] Speaker 8: have any physical evidence of these beings?
[1:46:15] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[1:46:15] Speaker 12: So basically it's I know it might be hard to understand,
[1:46:19] Speaker 12: but with the concepts of God that they're basically extremely
[1:46:22] Speaker 12: advanced supreme hominoids basically, so the term God may sound
[1:46:28] Speaker 12: mythical and stuff, but really if you to make you
[1:46:31] Speaker 12: understand it, it could be like a form of aliens.
[1:46:33] Speaker 12: So do you think there's a possibility of aliens to exist?
[1:46:38] Speaker 8: These advanced hominids are are here physically on our planet.
[1:46:42] Speaker 8: Can we see them?
[1:46:44] Speaker 12: The thing is you should have a lot of you
[1:46:47] Speaker 12: lot have probably seen a lot of the orbs and
[1:46:49] Speaker 12: the drones in the skies. And I know a lot
[1:46:51] Speaker 12: of people might think they're aliens, but they're the they're
[1:46:54] Speaker 12: the type of beings that they exist. And the government
[1:46:58] Speaker 12: aware of this, and I know a lot of people
[1:47:00] Speaker 12: in the chat are aware of these orbs as well.
[1:47:02] Speaker 12: A lot of them might think their government things, but
[1:47:05] Speaker 12: they need to identify if you can't prove that their government,
[1:47:09] Speaker 12: they are off out out of beings. And like I'm saying,
[1:47:13] Speaker 12: I'm not here to scare anyone, but this is this
[1:47:16] Speaker 12: is occurring, and it's it's not too Yeah, I'm not
[1:47:22] Speaker 12: here to I'm just here to explain the situation basically
[1:47:25] Speaker 12: because it because it is.
[1:47:26] Speaker 5: Going to get a bit more.
[1:47:28] Speaker 2: Do you believe in people?
[1:47:31] Speaker 1: Basically?
[1:47:31] Speaker 12: Can I do that?
[1:47:33] Speaker 1: There's a lot of information that I just want to
[1:47:35] Speaker 1: or no, do you believe in reptilian people?
[1:47:41] Speaker 12: I don't fully have experienced it.
[1:47:44] Speaker 1: I don't.
[1:47:45] Speaker 4: I don't believe.
[1:47:48] Speaker 8: Have you physically seen these beings or are you just
[1:47:51] Speaker 8: saying you've seen their crafts?
[1:47:58] Speaker 12: I just I can't reveal to much affirmation. I just
[1:48:01] Speaker 12: want to provide you some information of your existence, if
[1:48:03] Speaker 12: that's okay.
[1:48:04] Speaker 2: Do you have like a gag order?
[1:48:05] Speaker 1: What's going on? No?
[1:48:07] Speaker 12: No, it's just thinks. So can I just present you
[1:48:09] Speaker 12: with affirmation?
[1:48:10] Speaker 1: And I mean, you like just answered your question. I
[1:48:15] Speaker 1: thought it was a perfectly fine question. What are you?
[1:48:20] Speaker 1: What are you doing with your phone?
[1:48:21] Speaker 4: Like?
[1:48:22] Speaker 1: Are you do you do your fingers? Are they still
[1:48:25] Speaker 1: on your hands? Are you capable of holding it? Did
[1:48:29] Speaker 1: they take your fingers? I'm right, I'm okay. Can I
[1:48:35] Speaker 1: just can I just present you with up? Did you
[1:48:38] Speaker 1: get the probe? Did they probe you?
[1:48:44] Speaker 4: I'm all right, okay, okay, okay.
[1:48:47] Speaker 12: So I know that God is an extremely advanced supreme
[1:48:51] Speaker 12: being created created the galaxies?
[1:48:54] Speaker 2: What was your question?
[1:48:55] Speaker 1: I don't feel like this was the question answered to the.
[1:48:57] Speaker 12: Question I'm tetting you how how you came into existence?
[1:49:02] Speaker 1: So I'll try this again, Sarah, can you restate your question?
[1:49:04] Speaker 1: I was hoping to hear an answer to it.
[1:49:07] Speaker 8: Yeah, so have you physically seen these beings or have
[1:49:11] Speaker 8: you only seen their aircraft?
[1:49:14] Speaker 12: I've had my experiences and i've I've I'm in communication
[1:49:21] Speaker 12: with them at the moment.
[1:49:22] Speaker 8: How are you in communication with them?
[1:49:25] Speaker 13: It's just.
[1:49:29] Speaker 12: Yeah, could you just could you just.
[1:49:32] Speaker 1: But you're not even in communication with your phone right now?
[1:49:35] Speaker 1: How are you communicating with alien life?
[1:49:40] Speaker 12: I'm just asking them what to say because I can't
[1:49:42] Speaker 12: say too much basically, So they just tell me to
[1:49:45] Speaker 12: present some information for you to just absorb it just
[1:49:47] Speaker 12: and give me your opinion on it. So let me
[1:49:49] Speaker 12: just state one statement and then you tell me your
[1:49:51] Speaker 12: opinions on it.
[1:49:52] Speaker 1: Can you ask them a question for me?
[1:49:54] Speaker 11: Yeah?
[1:49:54] Speaker 5: I would.
[1:49:55] Speaker 12: I would have just just just let me say one
[1:49:56] Speaker 12: sentence and and ask you. Okay, I know that God
[1:49:59] Speaker 12: is an extremely advanced supreme being created the galaxies using
[1:50:03] Speaker 12: a highly sophisticated nuclear propulsion system, not as a myth,
[1:50:07] Speaker 12: but advanced science far beyond human capability. This aligns with
[1:50:11] Speaker 12: the big Fan theory, which ascribes the sudden expansion of
[1:50:14] Speaker 12: the universe from an ultra dense point. Where science explains
[1:50:18] Speaker 12: the expansion, it cannot explain the cause. I know, God
[1:50:21] Speaker 12: initiate this expansion through a controlled nuclear ignition, not an
[1:50:26] Speaker 12: explosion in space, but the activation of space itself. This
[1:50:29] Speaker 12: powerful system emotion.
[1:50:32] Speaker 2: Like a like a bomb.
[1:50:34] Speaker 12: Yeah, like the nuclear bombs up.
[1:50:37] Speaker 1: It was like Wiley Coyote and he just like had
[1:50:39] Speaker 1: the TNT box with the handle and.
[1:50:42] Speaker 12: A lot a lot of your scientists now are testing it.
[1:50:46] Speaker 12: They've they've created a mini one. They're trying to do
[1:50:48] Speaker 12: this replicate the same thing, and this is just something
[1:50:50] Speaker 12: that you're going to know in the future.
[1:50:52] Speaker 1: You mean, but they're not as nuclear fission.
[1:50:56] Speaker 12: No, it's called advanced nuclear propulsion system such it.
[1:51:00] Speaker 1: Well proportion, that's I think that's different than what you
[1:51:03] Speaker 1: were saying. No, I was saying.
[1:51:06] Speaker 12: I was saying, it's highly advanced nuclear propulsion system. So
[1:51:10] Speaker 12: a lot of the scientists these days they've got a
[1:51:13] Speaker 12: mini one they're testing out. They can create these little
[1:51:16] Speaker 12: life forms.
[1:51:17] Speaker 14: And stuff like that, like the the hydro system that
[1:51:20] Speaker 14: they're using, so that they're testing they're doing all these
[1:51:23] Speaker 14: stuff that they're going to create little type galaxies and
[1:51:26] Speaker 14: little planets and stuff, but they're not as advanced as
[1:51:29] Speaker 14: the extra extra being, the higher being space.
[1:51:32] Speaker 1: Do your family members go ahead?
[1:51:34] Speaker 8: Do you have yet? Do you have a support system,
[1:51:37] Speaker 8: like do you have friends around you.
[1:51:40] Speaker 12: Able to disprove me? Are you able to disprove me?
[1:51:43] Speaker 12: If you can disprove me scientific so then you can
[1:51:46] Speaker 12: argue that fact. So if you can't disprove me, then
[1:51:49] Speaker 12: you can't say that I'm wrong. So planning, isn't that right?
[1:51:53] Speaker 12: You don't have scientific evidence to disprove me, you can't
[1:51:56] Speaker 12: say I'm right.
[1:51:57] Speaker 1: So the way that like arguments were for things is
[1:52:01] Speaker 1: like it's not true just because somebody didn't disprove it.
[1:52:04] Speaker 1: That's not how claims work, right. So if I said, actually,
[1:52:08] Speaker 1: the universe came about by magic pixies and they just
[1:52:12] Speaker 1: sprinkle a little like planet dust everywhere and create planets,
[1:52:16] Speaker 1: like you can't disprove that, that doesn't mean it's true. Right,
[1:52:20] Speaker 1: So just making claims that are outlandish and unfalsifiable doesn't
[1:52:24] Speaker 1: make them true just because like we don't have evidence
[1:52:27] Speaker 1: of the things that don't exist, and.
[1:52:32] Speaker 8: I'm a little concerned.
[1:52:33] Speaker 1: Honestly, I was. I was actually pleased that you asked
[1:52:37] Speaker 1: him that question. I kind of get the impression that
[1:52:39] Speaker 1: while he might be fun at Thanksgiving dinner, I don't
[1:52:42] Speaker 1: know if this guy is well if I don't know
[1:52:46] Speaker 1: if he was if he has like escaped from somewhere,
[1:52:51] Speaker 1: or like, did you have to get a permission slip
[1:52:53] Speaker 1: to leave the building planet. I hope that.
[1:52:59] Speaker 8: If you have a support system, if you've got friends
[1:53:01] Speaker 8: and family in place, people you can talk to. I'm
[1:53:07] Speaker 8: not sure what your medical situation is, but yeah, I
[1:53:13] Speaker 8: would I would definitely encourage you to reach out to
[1:53:16] Speaker 8: your support system.
[1:53:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, anyways, listen, I mean, the theory was incredibly interesting.
[1:53:24] Speaker 1: That's all I can say about that. But I think
[1:53:26] Speaker 1: you're in the wrong place. My guess is you can't
[1:53:29] Speaker 1: prove any of those claims. But Boyle, it's interesting at least,
[1:53:33] Speaker 1: wasn't it.
[1:53:34] Speaker 8: Yeah.
[1:53:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, let's make sure he gets in contact with doctor Joe,
[1:53:43] Speaker 1: Guys and Chip. Thank you so much for the super chest,
[1:53:45] Speaker 1: says in Fenn Integram. The same is true every time
[1:53:50] Speaker 1: they talk about the theory of evolution. Praise Doug the
[1:53:53] Speaker 1: rock on which all life began actually you're actually right,
[1:53:56] Speaker 1: referring to Fend's prior comment if there was an original rock,
[1:54:03] Speaker 1: surely the rock was. Doug and Necro. Good to see
[1:54:05] Speaker 1: you tonight, friend. Thank you for the ton of super
[1:54:07] Speaker 1: chest says a scientific theory is testable and falsifiable. Science
[1:54:10] Speaker 1: doesn't work on absolutes like a pastor. Doug helped me
[1:54:15] Speaker 1: stand firm today. I'm with the Necro actually, and that's
[1:54:18] Speaker 1: actually a really good point. So the thing that you
[1:54:21] Speaker 1: ask yourself in science is when you come up with
[1:54:24] Speaker 1: a theory, is how do I falsify it? And seraho
[1:54:27] Speaker 1: is actually all about the scientific process a scientist herself, right,
[1:54:32] Speaker 1: if a theory, like if you come up with a
[1:54:35] Speaker 1: theory in physiology and you have no way to prove
[1:54:38] Speaker 1: it wrong, Like how strong is that theory?
[1:54:42] Speaker 8: You mean a hypothesis?
[1:54:43] Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, sorry, hypothesis Yeah yeah.
[1:54:47] Speaker 8: So if you come up with a hypothesis, then there's
[1:54:49] Speaker 8: no way to test it. We mean, you just can't
[1:54:52] Speaker 8: make any claims about it at all. You can't say
[1:54:55] Speaker 8: whether it's true or false. You just can't claim either way.
[1:54:59] Speaker 1: But what if it feels true?
[1:55:01] Speaker 8: Well that's different.
[1:55:06] Speaker 1: Can best. Thank you so so much for the sixty
[1:55:08] Speaker 1: nine ninety nine Canadian superchat, big w your dollar is
[1:55:13] Speaker 1: actually not being devalued right now. We appreciate that. Thank
[1:55:15] Speaker 1: you so much for the support and for supporting our
[1:55:19] Speaker 1: ailing country now that we've got a maniac in charge.
[1:55:21] Speaker 1: And it says, get circular much shake my head, Yeah,
[1:55:24] Speaker 1: I can. You're you nailed it. That's exactly what's happening.
[1:55:27] Speaker 1: We're in the land of circular arguments tonight. We've had
[1:55:30] Speaker 1: quite a few circular arguments. And I'm not a prophet,
[1:55:34] Speaker 1: but I'm gonna predict there's going to be more. Larry,
[1:55:36] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the five deconstruction zone gifted,
[1:55:39] Speaker 1: Subby's Big w and bad Kitties. Thank you so much
[1:55:42] Speaker 1: for the birdies. And also Chip again with another super chat.
[1:55:46] Speaker 1: Chiming in says DNA is chemistry, not code, for fuck's sake,
[1:55:50] Speaker 1: the Big Bang with an expansion, not an explosion. Listen,
[1:55:54] Speaker 1: you can't expect science among believers. That that's why they're
[1:55:58] Speaker 1: still believers is because they don't know the science. But yeah,
[1:56:02] Speaker 1: we're in complete agreement with you. And one last super
[1:56:05] Speaker 1: chat from Ksak says, I love the superchat already. When
[1:56:09] Speaker 1: I write poc code I make sure it can randomly
[1:56:11] Speaker 1: copy part of itself until the machine can no longer function.
[1:56:17] Speaker 1: Anyone who's written PLOC code knows a few things. Same
[1:56:20] Speaker 1: with CNC code. It has to be operable, it has
[1:56:24] Speaker 1: to not kill itself. And it's also true that you
[1:56:27] Speaker 1: don't want dead code. In fact, I have customers that
[1:56:31] Speaker 1: part of the design criteria for the code on the
[1:56:34] Speaker 1: machines is that there is no dead code. All code
[1:56:38] Speaker 1: on that machine must contribute to the function of the machine.
[1:56:41] Speaker 1: Our DNA is packed full of dead code code. Anyways,
[1:56:46] Speaker 1: Kyle Wooman, Hey, how's it going pretty good?
[1:56:50] Speaker 2: How are you?
[1:56:51] Speaker 15: I don't know, Okay, This whole prophecy thing's got me
[1:56:57] Speaker 15: all fucked up since I've been listening to you.
[1:57:00] Speaker 1: Fair enough, okay, so I can understand that are you
[1:57:03] Speaker 1: currently deconstructing right? Okay? And it sounds to me like
[1:57:10] Speaker 1: you're having a little bit of trouble with the fact
[1:57:12] Speaker 1: that you're probably told in church that Jesus fulfilled a
[1:57:16] Speaker 1: bunch of prophecies, but when you actually go back and
[1:57:18] Speaker 1: read the prophecies, it's kind of turns out that he
[1:57:21] Speaker 1: didn't really fulfill anything.
[1:57:23] Speaker 15: Well, It's like, if I go and ask the people
[1:57:25] Speaker 15: that I'm surrounded, because you know, obviously we're in a
[1:57:28] Speaker 15: heavily Christian nation or whatever you want to call it,
[1:57:32] Speaker 15: and everyone wants to say, well, you're interpreting it wrong.
[1:57:35] Speaker 10: You got to interpret it this way.
[1:57:37] Speaker 1: It takes a.
[1:57:38] Speaker 15: Special spiritual, you know, thing to understand what Jesus was
[1:57:43] Speaker 15: talking about. And so I tried to default, Well, man's
[1:57:48] Speaker 15: hands have been on the Bible all over it, so
[1:57:51] Speaker 15: it's obviously going to be a little fucked up. There's
[1:57:55] Speaker 15: no way it could be perfect.
[1:57:58] Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you a question. I mean, yeah,
[1:58:02] Speaker 1: when you have a discussion with these friends of yours,
[1:58:04] Speaker 1: ask them about the spot in the Koran where it
[1:58:07] Speaker 1: says that mankind is basically comes from semen. Then the
[1:58:13] Speaker 1: semen comes from between the ribs and the backbone, right.
[1:58:16] Speaker 1: And then when they say, well, that's obviously not true.
[1:58:19] Speaker 1: The book says something untrue, say no, no, no, it's true. Spiritually,
[1:58:23] Speaker 1: you just you have to have the spirit of a
[1:58:25] Speaker 1: law living in you and the power of Muhammad to
[1:58:29] Speaker 1: help you to understand it. And right when they realize
[1:58:33] Speaker 1: that that's like a really terrible thing to say to somebody,
[1:58:36] Speaker 1: then you say, okay, cool, so like words have meanings.
[1:58:39] Speaker 1: You don't need a spirit to understand that words have meanings.
[1:58:42] Speaker 1: Like adding spiritual meanings to words just means you don't
[1:58:45] Speaker 1: like what they actually mean in the first place, for sure.
[1:58:49] Speaker 15: And I guess where it got to me, got me
[1:58:52] Speaker 15: to where I'm at is everyone's like, well, now that
[1:58:56] Speaker 15: you've learned a little bit of science and a little
[1:58:58] Speaker 15: bit of a fallowed in the Bible, now you've got
[1:59:01] Speaker 15: really you've lost humility, You've you're really prideful, and you
[1:59:04] Speaker 15: think you know it all, and you're asking so many
[1:59:06] Speaker 15: questions and it's just like.
[1:59:09] Speaker 1: I just don't know, man.
[1:59:11] Speaker 15: And then I I know, I know how easily I
[1:59:14] Speaker 15: fall fall out of like things that I'm interested in.
[1:59:17] Speaker 10: I got super obsessed.
[1:59:19] Speaker 15: Still find the religious text just learning about it kind
[1:59:22] Speaker 15: of fascinating. But just to keep myself locked into the
[1:59:26] Speaker 15: cult we call Christianity, I tattooed Romans twelfth two completely
[1:59:30] Speaker 15: on the top of my head, thinking that keep me in, I.
[1:59:36] Speaker 8: Know, man, huh, like on the top of your head
[1:59:41] Speaker 8: or your forehead.
[1:59:42] Speaker 15: From the start of my hairline to the to like
[1:59:46] Speaker 15: the calic like here, like on the very top, yep, yep,
[1:59:52] Speaker 15: like Mohawks style right like King James Virgin every word.
[1:59:58] Speaker 1: Wow.
[1:59:59] Speaker 15: So I called the line here and there or whenever
[2:00:03] Speaker 15: I just had free time. Uh, and they hit me
[2:00:07] Speaker 15: with the fallacy.
[2:00:08] Speaker 11: What is that?
[2:00:08] Speaker 1: The uh sun cost? Yeah? And I'm like, well, fuck man.
[2:00:14] Speaker 15: And it's like this Christianity thing that seemed to do
[2:00:17] Speaker 15: the trick as far as meaning and purpose and give
[2:00:19] Speaker 15: me answers for unanswerable things. And uh, I've just tried
[2:00:24] Speaker 15: to I don't I think if there is a God,
[2:00:27] Speaker 15: he ain't gonna give us a book that everybody's gonna
[2:00:30] Speaker 15: argue over and bring confusion when it clearly says that
[2:00:33] Speaker 15: God is not the author of confusion.
[2:00:37] Speaker 1: And uh, Kyle, send me, send me DM.
[2:00:41] Speaker 2: If you ever.
[2:00:44] Speaker 1: Get the feeling like you want to have your tattoo
[2:00:47] Speaker 1: lasery moved, I'll make sure it happens for you. That's
[2:00:50] Speaker 1: what's up now.
[2:00:51] Speaker 15: I I am kind of been mentored over since I was.
[2:00:56] Speaker 15: My mom brought a self proclaimed prophet into my life.
[2:01:00] Speaker 15: And dudes, you know he's willing to talk, let me
[2:01:03] Speaker 15: ask questions and he he and he finally admitted. So
[2:01:07] Speaker 15: I was like, man, that's just all I wanted somebody
[2:01:09] Speaker 15: to do was admit that there is flaws. And he said,
[2:01:12] Speaker 15: you know, just like we call Israel the holy land,
[2:01:15] Speaker 15: man has made a business out of it. Therefore it's
[2:01:18] Speaker 15: no longer holy. It's corrupted. He said, same thing with
[2:01:21] Speaker 15: the Bible. But don't like throw the baby out with
[2:01:23] Speaker 15: the bathwater, meaning Jesus being God dying for sins and
[2:01:27] Speaker 15: don't go to hell.
[2:01:28] Speaker 1: Essentially, they have to say that, I know, because they
[2:01:32] Speaker 1: don't have proof. They don't have anything beyond that. So
[2:01:36] Speaker 1: you can give you the proof.
[2:01:38] Speaker 10: So you're like one hundred percent that Jesus is not
[2:01:41] Speaker 10: the answer.
[2:01:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, like you you might be able to lay down
[2:01:44] Speaker 1: an argument that could result in like some kind of
[2:01:47] Speaker 1: a creator being some kind of like a deistic entity.
[2:01:50] Speaker 1: But there's no argument whatsoever that would ever make Jesus
[2:01:54] Speaker 1: and Christianity true. There isn't one. You'd have to get
[2:01:57] Speaker 1: rid of the Bible. You have to say, well, this
[2:01:59] Speaker 1: Jesus stuff is true, but the Bible is not true,
[2:02:02] Speaker 1: and then you just have to believe it without the Bible. Yeah,
[2:02:05] Speaker 1: if you get rid of the Bible, then maybe you
[2:02:07] Speaker 1: can make some claims. But the minute you say that
[2:02:10] Speaker 1: Christianity is proved by the Bible, you shut yourself in
[2:02:13] Speaker 1: the foot.
[2:02:14] Speaker 15: Right, And then I asked this self proclaimed profit. I said, you,
[2:02:18] Speaker 15: I asked you a question. All these years, you have
[2:02:20] Speaker 15: yet to give me an answer. You claim to be
[2:02:22] Speaker 15: a prophet. Therefore you hear from God, and you obviously
[2:02:25] Speaker 15: don't hear it in the physical, so how do you
[2:02:27] Speaker 15: hear it? And then he's like, well, you got to
[2:02:29] Speaker 15: understand God is above our frequency and he speaks through
[2:02:34] Speaker 15: you know, the frequency. And then so I started like
[2:02:36] Speaker 15: YouTube and a bunch of frequency and energy and vibration shit.
[2:02:41] Speaker 15: And then I'm just like well, and then the idea
[2:02:44] Speaker 15: of time itself, I'm like, let's crowd that a good argument.
[2:02:48] Speaker 1: Well, okay, yeah, and I'll end on this, Kyle, because
[2:02:51] Speaker 1: I got to get a debating here, but ask him
[2:02:53] Speaker 1: how God created sound waves in a vacuum because you
[2:02:58] Speaker 1: can't have sound waves in the space.
[2:03:00] Speaker 10: Oh shit, all right, man, I'm gonna dmu.
[2:03:02] Speaker 1: Thanks man him, Kyle.
[2:03:04] Speaker 8: You're also welcome to come hang out on my lives.
[2:03:07] Speaker 8: It's not debate, so it's more people who are deconstructing
[2:03:11] Speaker 8: who want to just chat and connect. So you're always
[2:03:15] Speaker 8: welcome on my lives as well.
[2:03:17] Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
[2:03:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, follow Sarah's channel and join the discord. Go to
[2:03:21] Speaker 1: the link tree of my profile and join up on
[2:03:22] Speaker 1: the discord.
[2:03:24] Speaker 3: All right, sounds good.
[2:03:25] Speaker 15: I tried to subscribe to your thing to find the
[2:03:27] Speaker 15: cheat sheet for the prophecies and stuff.
[2:03:29] Speaker 1: But I'll figure it out, all right, DM, if you
[2:03:32] Speaker 1: have okay?
[2:03:33] Speaker 2: All right?
[2:03:33] Speaker 1: Thanks? Man. Like guys, deconstructing is hard, and I would
[2:03:39] Speaker 1: say frustrating, right.
[2:03:41] Speaker 8: Yeah, it's really hard and it's really lonely. So yeah,
[2:03:46] Speaker 8: I can definitely empathize.
[2:03:48] Speaker 1: And I think one of the hard things too, is
[2:03:50] Speaker 1: while you're in it, you're thinking to yourself, I can
[2:03:52] Speaker 1: go to the people in authority and they'll be able
[2:03:55] Speaker 1: to give me the answer that I need. And then
[2:03:57] Speaker 1: you go and they don't actually have any good answers.
[2:04:00] Speaker 1: You're like, oh, well, this is a problem. Like imagine
[2:04:03] Speaker 1: like taking your car to like a master mechanic and
[2:04:06] Speaker 1: he just throws his hands up in the air if
[2:04:08] Speaker 1: I fuck, I don't know, if wrong, your car don't
[2:04:10] Speaker 1: major in the minors, It's like, what what do you
[2:04:12] Speaker 1: mean You're supposed to You're supposed to know.
[2:04:13] Speaker 2: Bef all of this damn thing.
[2:04:16] Speaker 8: Yeah, it's this feeling of like the path that you're
[2:04:19] Speaker 8: walking is crumbling underneath your feet and you're like, oh
[2:04:22] Speaker 8: my god, there's nothing here.
[2:04:25] Speaker 1: That's crazy thing about all right, we've got uh still
[2:04:28] Speaker 1: got that back waiting to get in.
[2:04:30] Speaker 2: We'll grab that.
[2:04:31] Speaker 1: Guest next and black Alishair, thank you so much for
[2:04:34] Speaker 1: the supertest, says energy cannot be created nor destroyed.
[2:04:37] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[2:04:37] Speaker 1: I brought that up. Only transformed or transferred. That's the
[2:04:40] Speaker 1: only accuracy. That's the only accuracy we have to God.
[2:04:44] Speaker 1: But we can't call that God. Yes, energy is eternal,
[2:04:47] Speaker 1: just like our universe. Yeah, I again, I agree with
[2:04:50] Speaker 1: you there. I think though, like what the way I
[2:04:53] Speaker 1: interpret that part of science is that it negates the
[2:04:56] Speaker 1: need for a god. If it's if it can't be
[2:04:58] Speaker 1: created nor destroyed, then it just means it's eternal, which
[2:05:01] Speaker 1: means nobody has to create it. Doctor Pizza, thank you
[2:05:04] Speaker 1: so much for the Superjest says we need to have
[2:05:06] Speaker 1: you debate someone while they get a brain scan so
[2:05:09] Speaker 1: we can see what part of the brain facilitate cognitive dissonance. Actually, Sarah,
[2:05:13] Speaker 1: I think Sarah and I have talked about this. They've
[2:05:15] Speaker 1: done studies on people and discovered that when people are
[2:05:20] Speaker 1: being challenged on their religious beliefs, they exhibit all the
[2:05:24] Speaker 1: same like hormone and chemical makeups and brain responses as
[2:05:28] Speaker 1: somebody who's being challenged to like a physical fight, like
[2:05:31] Speaker 1: a brawl.
[2:05:32] Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean it's the same responses as if you
[2:05:36] Speaker 8: are being physically attacked.
[2:05:38] Speaker 1: It's crazy to think about, but I mean, I get it.
[2:05:42] Speaker 1: It does feel like an attack. And Cameron said, is
[2:05:45] Speaker 1: funny that guests loves the word nothing so much. Yeah. Well,
[2:05:50] Speaker 1: when you've come with scripted talking points, it's hard to
[2:05:53] Speaker 1: get off the script because you don't know where to go.
[2:05:56] Speaker 1: And so I get it. It's kind of like the
[2:05:58] Speaker 1: first time you preach a sermon. You're like, I'm going
[2:06:00] Speaker 1: to read this sermon word for a word, because if
[2:06:02] Speaker 1: I get off this thing, I don't know word. I
[2:06:04] Speaker 1: have no idea what's going to happen.
[2:06:10] Speaker 8: Mad night, Thank you for having.
[2:06:15] Speaker 1: Thanks so much for coming up, and you guys, make
[2:06:16] Speaker 1: sure everyone's following Sarah on YouTube and TikTok. Not just
[2:06:20] Speaker 1: on TikTok, also on YouTube. We're gonna be releasing another
[2:06:23] Speaker 1: episode of our atheist deconstruction Bible study. It should be
[2:06:28] Speaker 1: a lot of fun. Sounds good.
[2:06:30] Speaker 3: Thank you.
[2:06:31] Speaker 2: I have a great as erum.
[2:06:35] Speaker 1: All right, big w for having Sarah up with us,
[2:06:38] Speaker 1: and Maximilian, thank you so much for sending out ten
[2:06:41] Speaker 1: Deconstruction Zone gifted memberships. I really really appreciate that. Super generous,
[2:06:45] Speaker 1: my friend, super generous. And again with the super chat,
[2:06:48] Speaker 1: Max says, where do you get the energy from? Buddy?
[2:06:51] Speaker 1: I can barely keep up with you from nowhere? Actually,
[2:06:57] Speaker 1: the one the one question that I would say is
[2:07:01] Speaker 1: frustrating to me is why is there something rather than nothing?
[2:07:07] Speaker 1: That's the weird thing to me, Like obviously the conclusions
[2:07:09] Speaker 1: that there was never nothing, but the question of why
[2:07:12] Speaker 1: is there something instead of nothing? I don't know if
[2:07:15] Speaker 1: we're ever going to have an answer for that, but
[2:07:17] Speaker 1: it's a good question. Godwin says, is the Tabernacle a
[2:07:20] Speaker 1: form of idol worship? No? No, no, I don't think so.
[2:07:22] Speaker 1: The Tabernacle was essentially a place of worship and bearded heretic.
[2:07:28] Speaker 1: Good to see it tonight. Thank you for the ten
[2:07:29] Speaker 1: dollars super chit it says, just finish your guest spot
[2:07:32] Speaker 1: on CJ. Cornthwait's channel Fantastic Talk on the sept two
[2:07:37] Speaker 1: Agent He's a newer creator worth the follow actually I agree,
[2:07:40] Speaker 1: Go to CJ. Cornthwaites or I think you missed a
[2:07:44] Speaker 1: tea in there. Go to his channel, a buddy of mine.
[2:07:47] Speaker 1: He's deconstructed, but he's still a Christian. We recently did
[2:07:51] Speaker 1: a video on why the Hebrew scriptures came before the
[2:07:55] Speaker 1: Greek septuagent There's a popular guy right now, Ammin Hillman,
[2:07:59] Speaker 1: who's going around trying to convince people that he's an
[2:08:03] Speaker 1: expert and that he knows that the Greek Septuagint was
[2:08:05] Speaker 1: earlier than the Hebrew manuscript. So we did a video
[2:08:09] Speaker 1: diving into the languages and demonstrating why it wouldn't make
[2:08:13] Speaker 1: sense that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew first,
[2:08:16] Speaker 1: it had to be written in Greek. Okay, I'll grab
[2:08:18] Speaker 1: one more guest on TikTok that I'm going to switch
[2:08:20] Speaker 1: over to the YouTube queue. So everyone who's been waiting
[2:08:23] Speaker 1: in the YouTube queue, your time has come. Sorry that
[2:08:26] Speaker 1: you've waited so long. But when I've got when I've
[2:08:29] Speaker 1: got TikTok co hosts with me, they can't interact with
[2:08:33] Speaker 1: anybody on the YouTube stream. Only I can. But anyways,
[2:08:37] Speaker 1: how are you doing still good?
[2:08:39] Speaker 3: How about you doing well?
[2:08:41] Speaker 1: Thank you for asking good, are you at least eighteen?
[2:08:44] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[2:08:45] Speaker 1: Okay?
[2:08:46] Speaker 2: What you were?
[2:08:46] Speaker 3: You born two thousand and six?
[2:08:50] Speaker 1: Okay, so what religion are you a part of?
[2:08:55] Speaker 3: I just recently converted to Islam and last two year
[2:09:00] Speaker 3: of October.
[2:09:01] Speaker 1: Sure it would be the most compelling evidence or argument
[2:09:04] Speaker 1: for Islam being true.
[2:09:08] Speaker 3: The miracles that have happened are unordinary, like what prophet
[2:09:16] Speaker 3: Muhammed peace be upon him splitting the moon. But I
[2:09:19] Speaker 3: wanted to start it off with a couple of questions.
[2:09:21] Speaker 2: Oh you couldn't.
[2:09:22] Speaker 1: You can't start out with that, Okay, So give me
[2:09:26] Speaker 1: the evidence that the moon was split into? Huh? I
[2:09:30] Speaker 1: mean give me the evidence that I mean, well, I
[2:09:32] Speaker 1: know the Kuran says it doesn't mean it happened.
[2:09:34] Speaker 3: Would do you believe in mass transmission?
[2:09:37] Speaker 1: I don't even know what mass transmission is, but I
[2:09:39] Speaker 1: certainly don't believe that the moon was split into.
[2:09:42] Speaker 3: Do you think the Roman Empires were real?
[2:09:45] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[2:09:45] Speaker 1: I do believe the Romans existed, Like we have buildings.
[2:09:50] Speaker 1: We have buildings from ancient Rome that are still standing.
[2:09:54] Speaker 3: What about the worst do you believe they happened as well?
[2:09:57] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[2:09:57] Speaker 1: Like the people that Rome went to war with throat
[2:10:00] Speaker 1: about it like we know that they went to war
[2:10:02] Speaker 1: with people.
[2:10:03] Speaker 3: Mass transmission where a bunch of people say it, that said,
[2:10:06] Speaker 3: it happened and it was carried on.
[2:10:08] Speaker 1: I mean oral tradition. Yeah, and also mass transmission, Well,
[2:10:13] Speaker 1: you can call it what you want. It's basically an
[2:10:15] Speaker 1: oral tradition. I'm not relying on oral tradition. I don't
[2:10:17] Speaker 1: think oral traditions are all that reliable. We've done quite
[2:10:21] Speaker 1: a few studies on people's ability to transmit things orally
[2:10:25] Speaker 1: and it's not very good. So anyways, that means nothing
[2:10:30] Speaker 1: to me. Like I get to say the same thing
[2:10:31] Speaker 1: is true of the Babylonian gods. The Babylonian gods are
[2:10:34] Speaker 1: true because the Babylonians transmitted their religion and their culture
[2:10:39] Speaker 1: and all the events that Mardu did. Therefore it's true.
[2:10:42] Speaker 1: That's not really a meaningful argument. Do you have, like
[2:10:45] Speaker 1: any actual evidence.
[2:10:48] Speaker 3: It was written down in the Quran. Prophet Muhammad couldn't write,
[2:10:53] Speaker 3: he didn't know much how to learn, and he had
[2:10:55] Speaker 3: messages from the angel Gabriel and he was able to
[2:11:01] Speaker 3: how can I put it? Not translate by I'm not
[2:11:05] Speaker 3: looking for the word right now. But I was mainly
[2:11:08] Speaker 3: focused on like a couple of questions. I just wanted
[2:11:10] Speaker 3: to ask.
[2:11:10] Speaker 1: You, right, But like you're stating, like what you believe,
[2:11:13] Speaker 1: we kind of already know what you believe. Like we're
[2:11:15] Speaker 1: not questioning what you believe. We're questioning if there's like
[2:11:18] Speaker 1: evidence for you to believe these things, Like so, for example,
[2:11:21] Speaker 1: the evidence that Muhammad was visited by Gabriel and then
[2:11:27] Speaker 1: after his death all the words of the Koran that
[2:11:31] Speaker 1: he spoke to his followers, they were able to remember
[2:11:33] Speaker 1: it and write it down. To me, these are adorable claims,
[2:11:37] Speaker 1: but like I don't have any reason to believe that
[2:11:39] Speaker 1: they're true.
[2:11:41] Speaker 3: Okay, so you don't believe in God?
[2:11:44] Speaker 1: Correct?
[2:11:45] Speaker 3: No, So, how how do you think your body is able?
[2:11:49] Speaker 3: How can you explain consciousness?
[2:11:51] Speaker 1: Consciousness is a derivative of the brain, the same way
[2:11:54] Speaker 1: we've got lower forms of consciousnesses in say like ants
[2:11:58] Speaker 1: and bees and fraus and dogs, like it's just a
[2:12:01] Speaker 1: product of things that can think.
[2:12:05] Speaker 3: Okay, well, so do you believe in things that you
[2:12:09] Speaker 3: So you don't believe in things that you don't see?
[2:12:11] Speaker 11: Right?
[2:12:11] Speaker 1: No, I didn't say that. There's lots of things that
[2:12:14] Speaker 1: we can't see, but we can detect using other means
[2:12:17] Speaker 1: like we can use special you know, goggles to see
[2:12:22] Speaker 1: wavelengths that you can't see with the with the naked eye.
[2:12:28] Speaker 3: Okay, so I had a really big topic to explain.
[2:12:35] Speaker 3: So I have a question. Do you think a cake
[2:12:37] Speaker 3: can be made? How do you think a cake can
[2:12:41] Speaker 3: be made? It's just a solid question to start off.
[2:12:43] Speaker 3: How do you think a cake can be made?
[2:12:45] Speaker 1: Well, I know how cakes are made because I've made cakes,
[2:12:47] Speaker 1: and I've witnessed other people make cakes. And you're attempting
[2:12:50] Speaker 1: to walk into everything that is created as a creator.
[2:12:55] Speaker 1: And so I'll pause you there. You sound like a
[2:12:57] Speaker 1: nice young man, but I just want to let you know,
[2:13:00] Speaker 1: like you said, you're you're eighteen, and like it sounds
[2:13:03] Speaker 1: to me like you've kind of run into some talking
[2:13:06] Speaker 1: points from various apologists and they might sound like novel
[2:13:10] Speaker 1: and convincing to you. And I understand why you would
[2:13:13] Speaker 1: you would feel that way because you're just now hearing
[2:13:16] Speaker 1: about them. That being said, keep in mind, from my
[2:13:20] Speaker 1: point of view, I've been hearing the same talking points
[2:13:24] Speaker 1: for over twenty years.
[2:13:26] Speaker 2: Do you like you.
[2:13:27] Speaker 1: Don't think that these are the first time I'm hearing
[2:13:29] Speaker 1: these talking points?
[2:13:29] Speaker 3: Do you no of course not, I feel like your experience.
[2:13:33] Speaker 1: Okay, So all I'm suggesting is that you may want
[2:13:39] Speaker 1: to tread lightly with some of these talking points and
[2:13:42] Speaker 1: assume that this is not my first time hearing it.
[2:13:46] Speaker 1: But anyways, you started giving like all creation has a creator,
[2:13:51] Speaker 1: which is like a version of the Paley's watchmaker argument.
[2:13:55] Speaker 1: Is that the one you want to go go to next?
[2:13:58] Speaker 1: The who the guy who created the watchmaker argument was
[2:14:02] Speaker 1: was Paaley? What was his first name? I don't remember.
[2:14:05] Speaker 11: I don't even know who you're talking about.
[2:14:07] Speaker 3: But I just want to I just want to say,
[2:14:10] Speaker 3: how can how can you explain a cake to be made?
[2:14:14] Speaker 1: Because I've seen how do it?
[2:14:16] Speaker 2: Well?
[2:14:16] Speaker 3: No, no, no, I'm talking about do you explain Do you
[2:14:20] Speaker 3: think that cake can be made just off of the wind? No?
[2:14:25] Speaker 1: No, So we defined what a cake is like. So
[2:14:28] Speaker 1: when we combine certain ingredients and then we put it
[2:14:31] Speaker 1: into a tin and we bake it in the oven
[2:14:33] Speaker 1: and it produces something that is what we call cake.
[2:14:38] Speaker 1: We decided what cake is, and we decided how cake
[2:14:41] Speaker 1: would be made.
[2:14:43] Speaker 3: Yeah, so do you think a cake can be made
[2:14:44] Speaker 3: from literally nothing?
[2:14:46] Speaker 2: No?
[2:14:47] Speaker 1: Definitionly, a cake is something that is made with ingredients
[2:14:51] Speaker 1: that we determined would be cake.
[2:14:53] Speaker 3: So how do you explain the universe to be created?
[2:14:56] Speaker 1: It wasn't created, It wasn't created, so into it it
[2:15:00] Speaker 1: always existed, So how did it exist? It always existed
[2:15:05] Speaker 1: the same way your God always existed in your worldview?
[2:15:08] Speaker 3: Yeah, but like, how did it exist?
[2:15:09] Speaker 1: Like?
[2:15:09] Speaker 3: Who made it?
[2:15:10] Speaker 2: It did?
[2:15:11] Speaker 1: Nobody made it. Things that exist forever don't get made.
[2:15:14] Speaker 3: So you're basically running off the knowledge that something happened
[2:15:20] Speaker 3: and then maam universe.
[2:15:21] Speaker 1: Nope, the universe always existed. So how it always existed
[2:15:27] Speaker 1: the same way it exists right now in this very moment.
[2:15:32] Speaker 3: Yeah, but who do you think created it?
[2:15:33] Speaker 1: Nobody created it. Things that exist forever don't get created.
[2:15:37] Speaker 3: So how does something exist without being created the.
[2:15:39] Speaker 1: Same way your God existed without being created?
[2:15:44] Speaker 3: Well, here's the thing, do you know what do.
[2:15:47] Speaker 1: You know what special pleading is?
[2:15:50] Speaker 3: Huh?
[2:15:50] Speaker 1: Do you know what special pleading is?
[2:15:53] Speaker 2: Nah?
[2:15:53] Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm going to introduce you to special pleading
[2:15:56] Speaker 1: just because I honestly you sound like a nice young man,
[2:15:59] Speaker 1: so you need you should learn like a little bit
[2:16:02] Speaker 1: of debate tack. So, like special pleading is when you
[2:16:06] Speaker 1: say something like nothing can exist forever and then you
[2:16:10] Speaker 1: say that my God exists forever. That's called special pleading.
[2:16:13] Speaker 1: You're saying that there's an exception to the thing, and
[2:16:16] Speaker 1: the thing is the thing that you like. Right, So
[2:16:19] Speaker 1: if you're going to say that, like things can't exist forever,
[2:16:22] Speaker 1: then that nullifies your God. When you add your god
[2:16:25] Speaker 1: as the exception, that's called special pleading. Right. So just
[2:16:29] Speaker 1: keep in mind, like as you're giving arguments for why
[2:16:32] Speaker 1: my viewpoint can't be true, ask yourself, could the claim
[2:16:36] Speaker 1: that I'm making could it also be applied to my worldview?
[2:16:39] Speaker 1: And then you won't be special pleading so much.
[2:16:43] Speaker 3: So questions. Let's let's say, so, okay, all all we
[2:16:48] Speaker 3: can really do is believe there's no denying that there's
[2:16:51] Speaker 3: there's nothing for certain in this world. For accept that
[2:16:54] Speaker 3: there's nothing for certain in this world. But let's say
[2:16:58] Speaker 3: let's say the world was coming to an end and
[2:17:03] Speaker 3: long long long time after me and you are like
[2:17:06] Speaker 3: in the grave.
[2:17:09] Speaker 1: Let's say I mean, like when you say the world,
[2:17:12] Speaker 1: you mean the earth huh, yes, when the world was ending, yes, yeah, yeah,
[2:17:17] Speaker 1: the earth is going to come to an end, like
[2:17:19] Speaker 1: the sun is going to gobble it up.
[2:17:21] Speaker 3: Yeah, And the Kuran also mentions that I don't think
[2:17:24] Speaker 3: it does. Yeah, it does, it does.
[2:17:26] Speaker 1: What's the first Macuran?
[2:17:28] Speaker 3: It says that all things are temporary in this earth.
[2:17:33] Speaker 1: That has nothing to do with what I said. The
[2:17:35] Speaker 1: Sun destroying the earth is altogether different than saying everything
[2:17:39] Speaker 1: on the earth is temporary.
[2:17:42] Speaker 3: That's exactly how this world is going to be destroyed
[2:17:43] Speaker 3: as by the sun.
[2:17:45] Speaker 1: I agree that, yes, our earth is going to be
[2:17:47] Speaker 1: destroyed by the sun, but the Kuran doesn't say that.
[2:17:50] Speaker 1: The Chorn does say, though, that Semen comes from between
[2:17:54] Speaker 1: the ribs and the backbone. Do you think that's true?
[2:17:57] Speaker 3: I haven't read about that yet.
[2:18:00] Speaker 1: About it now, sure if you have the time. Yeah,
[2:18:04] Speaker 1: we got it. It's going to be in Let me
[2:18:14] Speaker 1: grab the verse. Let's see. I'll always forget what verse
[2:18:18] Speaker 1: it is. I end up having to look it up,
[2:18:19] Speaker 1: but it's there. Eighty six Kurn eighty six six or
[2:18:24] Speaker 1: eighty six seven. I'm gonna put it on the screen too.
[2:18:29] Speaker 1: You don't have to take my word for it. We'll
[2:18:30] Speaker 1: read it directly. Actually, let me grab I want the
[2:18:35] Speaker 1: whole chapter, not just the verse. There we go one
[2:18:39] Speaker 1: through seventeen, so it says, let people consider what they
[2:18:46] Speaker 1: were created from They were created from a spurting fluid
[2:18:50] Speaker 1: stemming from between the backbone and the rib cage.
[2:18:56] Speaker 3: Stemming between the backbone and the red cage.
[2:18:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think do you think that the sperm
[2:19:02] Speaker 1: comes from between the backbone and the rib cage.
[2:19:06] Speaker 3: I haven't learned that much about.
[2:19:07] Speaker 1: It, but no, man doesn't right comes from the.
[2:19:12] Speaker 3: Yes?
[2:19:13] Speaker 1: Right? Yeah. It also says in the Quran that in
[2:19:16] Speaker 1: order to like, do a legal contract, you need two
[2:19:19] Speaker 1: female witnesses for every one male witness because it presumably
[2:19:25] Speaker 1: women aren't as good witnesses as men. Do you think
[2:19:27] Speaker 1: that's true.
[2:19:29] Speaker 3: That women aren't as good as men, They're.
[2:19:32] Speaker 1: Not as good as witnesses? Like, what do you mean
[2:19:37] Speaker 1: when the Koran when you sign a contract you need witnesses? Right? Well,
[2:19:40] Speaker 1: you need two male witnesses. If you want to use
[2:19:43] Speaker 1: females for witnesses, you need two females for every male.
[2:19:49] Speaker 1: That sounds like misogyny to me. Why would you need
[2:19:51] Speaker 1: two women to equal one male witness I.
[2:19:55] Speaker 3: Haven't learned much. I haven't learned. Well, are you reading
[2:19:58] Speaker 3: it with or without content?
[2:20:01] Speaker 1: I can read to all the context you want. How
[2:20:04] Speaker 1: much context do you want? Because the chapter in the
[2:20:06] Speaker 1: crown that I'm referring to doesn't really require context, is
[2:20:09] Speaker 1: just giving you the rules on you know, what to
[2:20:12] Speaker 1: do when you sign a legal agreement a contract. Right,
[2:20:19] Speaker 1: So it's going to be in Koran uh Sarah two
[2:20:24] Speaker 1: two twenty one and two twenty eight. And let you see,
[2:20:32] Speaker 1: I'm pacific a pope the whole chapter. Obviously we don't
[2:20:35] Speaker 1: want to read the whole chapter. It's a big one.
[2:20:36] Speaker 1: But let me go to the part that we want
[2:20:38] Speaker 1: to read. Mm hmmmmmmmmm too almost there, and I say
[2:20:47] Speaker 1: to eighty two, I think I did. Yeah, to eighty
[2:20:52] Speaker 1: two was where the statement was, I need one of
[2:20:57] Speaker 1: those mice that has the the fast scroll.
[2:21:01] Speaker 3: Okay, oh, get the get the B two uh the
[2:21:06] Speaker 3: vipers those.
[2:21:09] Speaker 1: I really I I got this particular mouse because it's
[2:21:11] Speaker 1: like dead silent when you click the buttons, that doesn't
[2:21:13] Speaker 1: show up. It doesn't come into my microphone typically. Shit,
[2:21:20] Speaker 1: what is I can't even read it? It's by rap who.
[2:21:26] Speaker 2: Rap rap who r a p o O.
[2:21:31] Speaker 1: I haven't heard of you anyways, it holds up to
[2:21:35] Speaker 1: it's it's uh, it's promise. It's pretty damn quiet. But
[2:21:38] Speaker 1: the scroll takes forever. Scroll. But so it says, oh, believers,
[2:21:42] Speaker 1: when you contact tracked alone for a fixed period of time,
[2:21:45] Speaker 1: commit it to writing that the scribe maintained justice between
[2:21:49] Speaker 1: the parties. The scribe should not refuse to write, as
[2:21:52] Speaker 1: Allah has taught them the right. They will write that
[2:21:55] Speaker 1: the debtor dictates, bearing Allah in mind and not defrauding
[2:21:59] Speaker 1: the debt. If the debtor is incompetent, weak, or unable
[2:22:02] Speaker 1: to dictate, let the guardian dictate for them with justice.
[2:22:06] Speaker 1: Call upon two of your men to witness. If two
[2:22:09] Speaker 1: men cannot be found, then one man and two women
[2:22:13] Speaker 1: of your choice will be witnesses, so that if one
[2:22:16] Speaker 1: of the women forgets, the other may remind her. So
[2:22:21] Speaker 1: you need two female to be equal to one male
[2:22:24] Speaker 1: witness in the Quran.
[2:22:29] Speaker 3: So what was the context before it?
[2:22:32] Speaker 2: Though?
[2:22:32] Speaker 1: It's just how to do a contract. This is when
[2:22:36] Speaker 1: you're yeah, when you're doing a contract for a loan.
[2:22:40] Speaker 1: This is the procedure.
[2:22:43] Speaker 3: So Okay, I kind of see what I kind of
[2:22:46] Speaker 3: see what you're yet to saying.
[2:22:47] Speaker 1: But I'm just suggesting that the Quran is misogynistic, assuming
[2:22:51] Speaker 1: that women are somehow deficient and men are not.
[2:22:57] Speaker 3: Well, I'm trying to think, so where it took place
[2:23:04] Speaker 3: where it took place. I wonder if those were any
[2:23:06] Speaker 3: of the laws in the country.
[2:23:09] Speaker 5: But I don't know.
[2:23:12] Speaker 3: I haven't read the entire Qurn yet. I have just
[2:23:15] Speaker 3: I just stopped reading after Albakra and then got hella busy,
[2:23:20] Speaker 3: so then I started focusing on school. But I need
[2:23:24] Speaker 3: to read it more. But my main question is I'm
[2:23:28] Speaker 3: not really here to completely debate. My main question.
[2:23:31] Speaker 2: Is is.
[2:23:34] Speaker 3: What would you do if there was a life after death?
[2:23:39] Speaker 1: Hopefully I would enjoy it.
[2:23:42] Speaker 3: Well, let's say, let's say there is a life after death,
[2:23:46] Speaker 3: just a hypothetic, like a hypothetical situation. Let's say like
[2:23:52] Speaker 3: the word of God was true and there was a
[2:23:57] Speaker 3: life after death, and you would be sent health fire
[2:24:01] Speaker 3: for not believing. What would your thoughts be?
[2:24:06] Speaker 1: This is hot, What would your thoughts be if you
[2:24:08] Speaker 1: were actually wrong about Mohammad and you get sent to
[2:24:11] Speaker 1: the Christian helm? Then so be it? There you go,
[2:24:16] Speaker 1: so be it? Yes, same answer.
[2:24:19] Speaker 3: But here's the thing.
[2:24:21] Speaker 1: Why why does God want to send people to hell
[2:24:23] Speaker 1: fire for their beliefs?
[2:24:25] Speaker 3: Huh?
[2:24:26] Speaker 1: Why does God want to send people to hell fire
[2:24:28] Speaker 1: just for what they believe it was?
[2:24:31] Speaker 3: It was already revealed to them, like if it was
[2:24:33] Speaker 3: already revealed, I just I disagree it wasn't revealed to me.
[2:24:36] Speaker 1: I don't believe this book. I read the Koran when
[2:24:38] Speaker 1: I was in high school. I didn't find it believable then,
[2:24:40] Speaker 1: I don't find it believable now.
[2:24:44] Speaker 3: Well, when they denied, when they denied the belief of
[2:24:46] Speaker 3: the law, and it would show to them correctly then though,
[2:24:51] Speaker 3: it would be a bigger punishment because it said, hey
[2:24:53] Speaker 3: believe and they decide not to.
[2:24:56] Speaker 2: Right.
[2:24:56] Speaker 1: But my point is, why is God sending anybody it
[2:24:59] Speaker 1: to hell based on what they believe? Like you would
[2:25:02] Speaker 1: think that if hell existed, it was for people that
[2:25:04] Speaker 1: were like truly wicked, not for people who just didn't
[2:25:07] Speaker 1: believe in like this guy, Like, why is God so
[2:25:10] Speaker 1: butt hurt that people believe or don't believe in him?
[2:25:13] Speaker 3: Well, it's just like it's just like prison, you know,
[2:25:15] Speaker 3: Like imagine imagine someone did someone something horrible and they
[2:25:20] Speaker 3: got punished for it, like they got sent to they
[2:25:23] Speaker 3: got sent to death.
[2:25:24] Speaker 1: You're not listening. I need you to listen to my question.
[2:25:26] Speaker 1: I'm not talking about people doing crimes. I'm talking about
[2:25:28] Speaker 1: people not believing in a lah like non believers.
[2:25:33] Speaker 3: It basically is a crime.
[2:25:36] Speaker 1: Non believers go to hell in your religion and in Christianity.
[2:25:41] Speaker 1: And what I want to know is why is your
[2:25:44] Speaker 1: God so butt hurt that people don't believe in him
[2:25:47] Speaker 1: that he has to torture them for eternity.
[2:25:50] Speaker 3: Because they denied it.
[2:25:52] Speaker 1: So I'm asking why. Like so, for example, if if
[2:25:56] Speaker 1: somebody went up to.
[2:25:58] Speaker 3: Trump, and you're putting God's rage in two different things.
[2:26:02] Speaker 1: Not even clothes follow me. Okay, So if I if
[2:26:04] Speaker 1: I walked up to Trump and I said, Trump, your
[2:26:07] Speaker 1: hands are small, he would get upset because he's really
[2:26:10] Speaker 1: insecure about his hands being small. All right, So my
[2:26:14] Speaker 1: question is I know why Trump would get upset if
[2:26:18] Speaker 1: I'd said something to him. Why is God upset when
[2:26:20] Speaker 1: I say I don't believe in you? What's he insecure about?
[2:26:26] Speaker 3: Well, you've already read the Koran, and you've already read all.
[2:26:30] Speaker 1: Of it, correct, But I don't believe it's true.
[2:26:35] Speaker 3: But here's here's a question. But you believe you believe
[2:26:38] Speaker 3: that nothing was existed, no existed.
[2:26:43] Speaker 1: I don't believe there was ever nothing.
[2:26:46] Speaker 3: So what do you what do you expect that existed?
[2:26:51] Speaker 1: Everything you see around us, the universe existed eternally, So like.
[2:26:55] Speaker 3: How though, how how is everything made? Force?
[2:26:58] Speaker 1: How did it not?
[2:27:02] Speaker 3: There obviously has to be a creator. There's no there's
[2:27:04] Speaker 3: no like God.
[2:27:05] Speaker 1: Not even close. I have no reason for a creator
[2:27:07] Speaker 1: in my worldview.
[2:27:09] Speaker 3: So you don't think you don't think there is a creator? Nope,
[2:27:13] Speaker 3: So you think if.
[2:27:14] Speaker 1: I thought there was a creator, I'd beat my my
[2:27:16] Speaker 1: topic would say God is real, prove me wrong. That's
[2:27:20] Speaker 1: what I'd be doing.
[2:27:22] Speaker 3: Yeah, But also, how how can there be no creator
[2:27:25] Speaker 3: when everything was made?
[2:27:27] Speaker 4: So?
[2:27:29] Speaker 3: So like, how can I explain it so evenly? There's
[2:27:34] Speaker 3: well no, no, no, think about it. There's good and
[2:27:36] Speaker 3: what good? What comes from good is bad, and what
[2:27:38] Speaker 3: comes from bad is good.
[2:27:40] Speaker 1: No, I don't believe it. So, yeah, you're wrong. So
[2:27:43] Speaker 1: this idea that everything was created so perfectly, I think,
[2:27:45] Speaker 1: is a big problem unless you think that your God
[2:27:48] Speaker 1: is like super vindictive and capricious. For example, why in
[2:27:51] Speaker 1: the world did he create everything so that children would
[2:27:54] Speaker 1: be born with bone cancer?
[2:27:58] Speaker 3: Well here's the thing with bone cancer. Well here's the thing.
[2:28:02] Speaker 3: Those people actually automatically go to heaven. Believers or not,
[2:28:06] Speaker 3: they automatically go to heaven.
[2:28:07] Speaker 1: Okay, so babies all go to heaven.
[2:28:11] Speaker 3: That die, Yeah, yes, because they were annowledged.
[2:28:15] Speaker 1: Cool. What about the babies that don't go to heaven?
[2:28:17] Speaker 1: What about the babies that don't die? What about the
[2:28:19] Speaker 1: babies that are born with bone cancer and then they
[2:28:22] Speaker 1: die at age thirty?
[2:28:25] Speaker 3: At age thirty?
[2:28:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, why did he give humans the ability to get
[2:28:31] Speaker 1: bone cancer from birth?
[2:28:34] Speaker 3: They might have just been sent to heaven.
[2:28:36] Speaker 1: Then this has nothing to do with them dying and
[2:28:38] Speaker 1: going somewhere. I'm asking why does he cause humans? Why
[2:28:42] Speaker 1: did he design humans in a way in which they
[2:28:46] Speaker 1: would have bone cancer in other nonsense like skin cancer
[2:28:51] Speaker 1: from the sun.
[2:28:54] Speaker 3: That's that's a question. I don't completely know why God?
[2:28:58] Speaker 3: Why God does that?
[2:28:59] Speaker 2: Right?
[2:29:00] Speaker 1: Because that's because it's because it's inconsistent in your worldview.
[2:29:05] Speaker 1: It's an unexpected thing. If you believe in a god
[2:29:08] Speaker 1: that's good, then it's it's unexpected that when we look
[2:29:12] Speaker 1: around us we see a bunch of stuff that we
[2:29:15] Speaker 1: wouldn't associate with a good creator, like natural disasters like earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes.
[2:29:22] Speaker 1: Those things are not consistent with a crator that's good.
[2:29:26] Speaker 3: Okay, what if it was an example, What if it
[2:29:29] Speaker 3: almost was an example showing to be grateful saying, hey,
[2:29:33] Speaker 3: I gave this person this instead of you giving instead
[2:29:36] Speaker 3: of giving it to you.
[2:29:37] Speaker 1: I know you said words, but I don't think your
[2:29:42] Speaker 1: words was a cojin statement.
[2:29:45] Speaker 2: So I'm asking in your worldview.
[2:29:47] Speaker 1: You believe in God. That's good, I presume, right, Yeah?
[2:29:51] Speaker 2: Right?
[2:29:51] Speaker 1: So why would God create the earth in which one
[2:29:54] Speaker 1: hundred thousand people are more a year on average are
[2:29:58] Speaker 1: randomly executed in the most brutal fashion through natural disasters,
[2:30:02] Speaker 1: and even more than that are like maimed for life.
[2:30:08] Speaker 3: Well, like, what what kind of natural disasters?
[2:30:11] Speaker 1: I told you? Earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, hurricanes, flash floods.
[2:30:17] Speaker 3: They come from the Earth.
[2:30:18] Speaker 1: I know, right, But did God make the earth?
[2:30:21] Speaker 9: Yeah?
[2:30:22] Speaker 2: Okay?
[2:30:23] Speaker 1: Could God made the earth without those things?
[2:30:26] Speaker 3: Without those things? Yeah, but that would make it?
[2:30:30] Speaker 1: You got it?
[2:30:30] Speaker 2: Okay?
[2:30:30] Speaker 1: So then what I'm saying is that if you believe
[2:30:33] Speaker 1: in a God that is like all powerful, all knowing,
[2:30:37] Speaker 1: and is also good, it's an unexpected thing that the
[2:30:41] Speaker 1: place he created his special people to live is full
[2:30:44] Speaker 1: of all these horrific things that cause senseless and needless suffering.
[2:30:55] Speaker 3: I get that. Wait, hold on, I explain that one
[2:30:58] Speaker 3: more time.
[2:30:59] Speaker 1: Right, if you believe in God, this is all knowing,
[2:31:01] Speaker 1: all powerful, and is also good. And my understanding is
[2:31:04] Speaker 1: in Islam, you don't believe in all good God. You
[2:31:07] Speaker 1: believe in like the goodest God. But if you believe
[2:31:11] Speaker 1: that God is good, then it's unexpected that the environment
[2:31:14] Speaker 1: He created for the people that he loves and wants
[2:31:17] Speaker 1: to be with causes unnecessary and needless suffering.
[2:31:24] Speaker 3: Well, here's the thing, what if what if they weren't
[2:31:27] Speaker 3: What if there weren't How can I explain this unneeded
[2:31:30] Speaker 3: and what if there was a reason behind it? Because immediately,
[2:31:34] Speaker 3: what if those people did something good but they saw
[2:31:38] Speaker 3: but God saw that they had a bad future and
[2:31:40] Speaker 3: stopped it from happening.
[2:31:41] Speaker 1: Right, So this is probably where most people should take
[2:31:45] Speaker 1: this argument. This is probably the better route for this argument.
[2:31:47] Speaker 1: A lot of people miss out on this, but it's
[2:31:50] Speaker 1: still not a good route to take because now you
[2:31:52] Speaker 1: have to figure out what good came from the baby
[2:31:56] Speaker 1: that was paralyzed when the when the building fell and
[2:32:00] Speaker 1: both of its parents were killed.
[2:32:05] Speaker 2: Me like, you've got to take.
[2:32:07] Speaker 1: The most horrific things that have ever happened to humanity
[2:32:11] Speaker 1: and find a way that somehow it was good and
[2:32:13] Speaker 1: I think the the the better question is whatever good
[2:32:18] Speaker 1: came from that? Could God have accomplished that good without
[2:32:23] Speaker 1: the horrific thing?
[2:32:26] Speaker 3: Okay, right, long, whatever.
[2:32:28] Speaker 1: Good came from whatever disaster you have in mind? Could
[2:32:32] Speaker 1: God cause that good to come about without the disaster?
[2:32:38] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[2:32:39] Speaker 5: So about that.
[2:32:40] Speaker 3: Look when there's like.
[2:32:43] Speaker 1: Where do you go? Alah took him? Allah took him?
[2:32:50] Speaker 4: Did he meet the drunks?
[2:32:51] Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what happened. I think
[2:32:55] Speaker 1: his phone might have died or something. Oh, he'll come back.
[2:33:04] Speaker 1: Adam's good to see you tonight. Or is it is
[2:33:06] Speaker 1: morning where you're at?
[2:33:07] Speaker 4: It is it is? I just woke up.
[2:33:10] Speaker 1: I thought, Yeah, well, good morning over in your part
[2:33:13] Speaker 1: of the world. Thanks for coming and hanging out with me.
[2:33:15] Speaker 1: You're welcome to stay up here. I got to grab
[2:33:17] Speaker 1: a couple of super chests and get to our next guest.
[2:33:19] Speaker 1: And maybe maybe that young man will come back. Maybe
[2:33:23] Speaker 1: he won't. He's eighteen, he just converted to Islam recently,
[2:33:27] Speaker 1: and it sounds to me like some apologists got a
[2:33:30] Speaker 1: hold of him and maybe gave him some arguments that
[2:33:34] Speaker 1: he didn't know what to do with. Well, uh uh Joma,
[2:33:42] Speaker 1: thank you for the super Chest says, if they say
[2:33:44] Speaker 1: there's no proof, but I believe through faith and it
[2:33:46] Speaker 1: provides me comfort, that would be spect spec to tablem Oh,
[2:33:53] Speaker 1: I'm sorry, respectable, that would be respectable. Admit it's a
[2:33:58] Speaker 1: coping mechanism. So I agree. Actually, so, I had a
[2:34:02] Speaker 1: teacher when I was in high school. She was my
[2:34:06] Speaker 1: religion teacher that literally said that, you know, you have
[2:34:10] Speaker 1: to take this thing on faith. It's not a fact.
[2:34:12] Speaker 1: You can't prove it. It's a faith, and you have
[2:34:15] Speaker 1: to live with that uncomfortable, that uncomfortable thing. And she's like,
[2:34:20] Speaker 1: if you can't live with that uncomfortable thing, maybe maybe
[2:34:24] Speaker 1: you should pray. But she's like, so she primed us
[2:34:28] Speaker 1: to know early on that like, hey, you can't prove
[2:34:30] Speaker 1: this thing to be true. At some point you have
[2:34:32] Speaker 1: to realize that it's it's a faith. And I appreciate that.
[2:34:35] Speaker 1: Look at the trees, awesome name. Thank you so much,
[2:34:37] Speaker 1: says I feel so seen tonight. Listen, we've had a
[2:34:40] Speaker 1: couple look at the trees arguments laid out tonight, and
[2:34:42] Speaker 1: you know there's going to be more. This topic brings
[2:34:45] Speaker 1: them out. Meg, says another theist who has no clue
[2:34:47] Speaker 1: what a theory is, I know, Meg, Oh it's so painful.
[2:34:51] Speaker 1: Every once in a while you'll get somebody who knows
[2:34:54] Speaker 1: what a scientific theory is, but typically not an absurdistig theist.
[2:34:58] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the tin that hour. Super
[2:35:00] Speaker 1: Chet says faith definition now and the Magical Wizard Sauce
[2:35:04] Speaker 1: that when drunk allows you to say, do and believe
[2:35:06] Speaker 1: the dumbest shit imaginable and still feel right. See also
[2:35:10] Speaker 1: Pegasus Feces denial quote from the Oatmeal. I do love
[2:35:15] Speaker 1: the oatmeal. It's been a minute since I've seen anything
[2:35:17] Speaker 1: from the oatmeal, but big w on bringing the oatmeal
[2:35:21] Speaker 1: to the chat. And Denise, thank you so much for
[2:35:22] Speaker 1: the super Chet. Good to see if Denise says, what
[2:35:25] Speaker 1: happens to rainbows when they break the law? They go
[2:35:28] Speaker 1: to prison? Oh, they go to prism. It's a light sentence.
[2:35:33] Speaker 1: It's a light sentence, but it gives them time to reflect.
[2:35:36] Speaker 1: Oh my god, three jokes in one. It's a trifecta joke.
[2:35:42] Speaker 1: That's I don't know if a more perfect joke exists. Denise.
[2:35:46] Speaker 1: I think he nailed it. I think that's the joke
[2:35:49] Speaker 1: of the night, Denise. I can't think of one that's
[2:35:51] Speaker 1: gonna be better. I fail to think that there's gonna
[2:35:55] Speaker 1: be a better one. And Carlos, thank you for gifting
[2:35:57] Speaker 1: out five DZ memberships. Big w Brian, thank you for
[2:36:01] Speaker 1: the super chest, says I do appreciate your patience and
[2:36:03] Speaker 1: perspective with your guests. You make Doug proud well. Brian,
[2:36:06] Speaker 1: thank you so much. I try to be patient. Sometimes
[2:36:10] Speaker 1: sometimes I fail, but I'm trying to be patient with
[2:36:13] Speaker 1: the guests. And Biden Welcome to the Crack and Crew
[2:36:15] Speaker 1: Elite and Jamo again says Ezekiel was close to deconstruction,
[2:36:19] Speaker 1: smart enough to follow the logic, but unwilling to draw
[2:36:23] Speaker 1: and accept the answer. That speaks cognitive dissonance. You're right,
[2:36:26] Speaker 1: but you know what, I think a lot of us
[2:36:28] Speaker 1: were there before. I have a sneaky suspicion that Ezekiel
[2:36:34] Speaker 1: will actually find his way through deconstruction eventually. I think
[2:36:39] Speaker 1: he's just young and he's still figuring out where he's
[2:36:41] Speaker 1: gonna land. And Garromel, thank you so much for the
[2:36:45] Speaker 1: ten dollars superchest. It says got a gift member. Thanks
[2:36:48] Speaker 1: a lot, Doug and Sharon. I'm curious about if the
[2:36:51] Speaker 1: Bible says that God speaks to us irregardless of belief.
[2:36:55] Speaker 1: I'm asking because someone told me that I need to
[2:36:57] Speaker 1: learn how to hear interesting, so like you hear people
[2:37:02] Speaker 1: talk about like the still small voice and things like that.
[2:37:07] Speaker 1: And there's like verses in Romans chapter one where it
[2:37:10] Speaker 1: kind of says that, you know, like God is revealed
[2:37:14] Speaker 1: in nature and that nobody is without excuse, and so
[2:37:19] Speaker 1: you get some verses like that that kind of hint
[2:37:21] Speaker 1: towards like God has kind of revealed himself. You just
[2:37:26] Speaker 1: have to look hard enough, with or without the Bible.
[2:37:28] Speaker 1: And actually I had a really good friend of mine,
[2:37:30] Speaker 1: like two years ago, ask me, you know, if God exists,
[2:37:33] Speaker 1: could you know God without the Bible? And it was like,
[2:37:35] Speaker 1: of course you couldn't, like even the Christian God. Could
[2:37:37] Speaker 1: you know the Christian God without the Bible. I don't
[2:37:39] Speaker 1: see why not, Like why would God limit himself to
[2:37:43] Speaker 1: like you can't find me unless you read the Bible.
[2:37:44] Speaker 1: It's a silly thing to believe in. But I had
[2:37:47] Speaker 1: a guest, and the guest ran I guess he didn't
[2:37:49] Speaker 1: mean to be here. And Godwin says the Catholic Church
[2:37:51] Speaker 1: promised that moving forward, they would identify the pedos in
[2:37:56] Speaker 1: their ranks by marking them with white collars. Interesting. Oh shit,
[2:38:02] Speaker 1: it took me a half a second. Yeah, that little
[2:38:05] Speaker 1: white mark at the beginning of the collar. You're right,
[2:38:08] Speaker 1: they certainly did mock them. It took me a second
[2:38:10] Speaker 1: to catch what you were doing there. That was good.
[2:38:13] Speaker 1: And Draco says, whenever I hear By and Large, I
[2:38:15] Speaker 1: can't help think of Wally BNL. I love Wally. By
[2:38:20] Speaker 1: the way, I really do enjoy the movie Wally. If
[2:38:24] Speaker 1: you're talking about a different Wally than I don't know
[2:38:25] Speaker 1: anything about that Wally, but I do love the movie Wally,
[2:38:29] Speaker 1: probably because you know, I designed machines and robots for
[2:38:33] Speaker 1: a living, but w for the Wally reference. Definitely appreciate that.
[2:38:36] Speaker 1: And Vinnie, thank you so much for being a member
[2:38:39] Speaker 1: of the Crack and Crew Elite. And it's just Kay says, hey,
[2:38:42] Speaker 1: justin always happy to support. Lots of love to you,
[2:38:45] Speaker 1: leaving Faith Mezso and Planet Peterson, Well, thank you so much.
[2:38:48] Speaker 1: It's just ka five month member. I think it's the
[2:38:50] Speaker 1: longest we've got. That's when we started doing memberships. So
[2:38:55] Speaker 1: we've got Kirk with us in the box. How are
[2:38:57] Speaker 1: you doing, Kirk? Can you hear us.
[2:39:00] Speaker 11: Yeah, I can hear.
[2:39:03] Speaker 1: Let me see if your audios is set up, because
[2:39:08] Speaker 1: I don't hear you even though I can see you talking.
[2:39:13] Speaker 1: Your microphone is set to default. I can change it
[2:39:17] Speaker 1: to the GBL or to the blue snowball. You can
[2:39:25] Speaker 1: see if that. I don't know which microphone you use them,
[2:39:27] Speaker 1: but you've got three of them plugged in here. See
[2:39:31] Speaker 1: if that works well. I can I cannot hear you
[2:39:36] Speaker 1: even though you can hear me. It shows that the
[2:39:40] Speaker 1: audio is coming over. Let me double track that it's
[2:39:45] Speaker 1: coming over correctly. Yeah, set up correctly?
[2:39:49] Speaker 8: Uh?
[2:39:49] Speaker 1: We we had? Did we have somebody else earlier come
[2:39:52] Speaker 1: in through YouTube and test the audio? Somebody from uh
[2:39:56] Speaker 1: from the Deconstruction crew join up on video Ninjura real quick,
[2:40:02] Speaker 1: let's verify that the settings are working and that they
[2:40:05] Speaker 1: didn't get changed between last stream and this stream when
[2:40:07] Speaker 1: I switched computers. Did to be really nice to just
[2:40:10] Speaker 1: to verify that, although I suspect that they're good to go.
[2:40:14] Speaker 1: James and Biblical Ritual, thank you for becoming a member
[2:40:17] Speaker 1: on TikTok. You guys should have access to the Deconstruction
[2:40:20] Speaker 1: cheat sheet and chat is in the house tonight now
[2:40:23] Speaker 1: that I'm looking over at the TikTok stream.
[2:40:25] Speaker 2: Chet.
[2:40:26] Speaker 1: Welcome in. Good to see him, my friend. Guys, if
[2:40:28] Speaker 1: you're not following Chet, you're missing out, all right. Actually,
[2:40:31] Speaker 1: so if anyone, let me let me grab somebody else
[2:40:33] Speaker 1: from the from the YouTube queue and see if their
[2:40:37] Speaker 1: audio works. What about Austin, Austin, can you hear me?
[2:40:45] Speaker 2: Yeah? I can hear you perfectly clear.
[2:40:47] Speaker 1: Oh you're talking? Interesting?
[2:40:50] Speaker 2: All right?
[2:40:50] Speaker 1: I can hear you now, yeah, I can. I think
[2:40:54] Speaker 1: there's some sort.
[2:40:55] Speaker 4: Of I think it's users issues.
[2:40:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's it's actually in the in the hardware.
[2:41:01] Speaker 1: I think it's on your guys end. So can you
[2:41:05] Speaker 1: guys hear Austin talking now that I've I've got the
[2:41:08] Speaker 1: microphone open, I'm curious if it's if it's gonna be double.
[2:41:15] Speaker 1: I don't know if my voice oh so yeah. That's
[2:41:18] Speaker 1: the other thing is it might just be that your
[2:41:20] Speaker 1: gear works and k Kirk's gear doesn't work. Sorry, sorry,
[2:41:27] Speaker 1: It certainly is a distinct possibility, Kirk. Can you hear us?
[2:41:33] Speaker 2: Yeah? Can you hear me? Yeah? I can hear you.
[2:41:35] Speaker 1: Let me test one thing real quick, okay, okay, what
[2:41:43] Speaker 1: about now, Kirk? Okay, Well, I don't know what what
[2:41:50] Speaker 1: I did to break it, but I have a workaround
[2:41:52] Speaker 1: for it for now, and we can we can use
[2:41:54] Speaker 1: the workaround. It's not a problem, all right, Austin. I'm
[2:41:56] Speaker 1: gonna drop you down and talk to Kirk since we
[2:41:58] Speaker 1: had him in the box. But thank you so much.
[2:42:00] Speaker 1: I appreciate that anyway. Sorry about the technical difficulty. I'm
[2:42:06] Speaker 1: not sure what happened to my setup. I'll have to
[2:42:08] Speaker 1: double check it later, but it looks like everything's working
[2:42:10] Speaker 1: right now. Kirk are well, you've got a beard in
[2:42:14] Speaker 1: a mustache that you're at least eighteen, and do you
[2:42:18] Speaker 1: believe in some kind of a deity?
[2:42:21] Speaker 16: Yes, I believe Jesus was the manifestation of Sure and.
[2:42:28] Speaker 2: Catholic if that matters, I guess Protestant, but just.
[2:42:36] Speaker 4: Mainstream.
[2:42:37] Speaker 2: I guess you could say it's a better word for it.
[2:42:40] Speaker 1: Sure. And what would be like the most compelling evidence
[2:42:44] Speaker 1: or argument for this God concept being real?
[2:42:50] Speaker 2: Well, I mean there's I mean, there's several of them.
[2:42:56] Speaker 2: I mean, just the fact that that we I think, uh,
[2:43:04] Speaker 2: that's a clearator were intelligelligence. I don't know that's an
[2:43:21] Speaker 2: apriate consumption.
[2:43:23] Speaker 1: They make sure before we move on too much further, Kirk,
[2:43:26] Speaker 1: can you get a little bit closer to your microphone
[2:43:29] Speaker 1: or turn your microphone up. You're a little bit quiet,
[2:43:31] Speaker 1: and we want to make sure we can hear you.
[2:43:36] Speaker 1: I think you just unplugged it. I can't hear anything. Yeah,
[2:43:47] Speaker 1: we lost you. There we go, we got you. Okay, okay,
[2:43:52] Speaker 1: we can hear you. Really good now, nice, nice, the
[2:43:56] Speaker 1: audience really quiet.
[2:43:59] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[2:43:59] Speaker 1: I used the stuff a long time ago when it
[2:44:02] Speaker 1: first came out, and I really enjoyed it. If I
[2:44:05] Speaker 1: ended up breaking mind and I have to get something else.
[2:44:10] Speaker 1: But anyways, so Kirk, you're you're a Christian of the
[2:44:14] Speaker 1: Catholic variety, and you were starting.
[2:44:18] Speaker 2: No non non contact. Oh I'm sorry that the CACA
[2:44:27] Speaker 2: there there there, they're all arguing there there rather other
[2:44:31] Speaker 2: not getting getting because because I mean, I mean there's
[2:44:34] Speaker 2: a lot a lot of assault happening in public couples. Well, well,
[2:44:38] Speaker 2: I am non religious, you know, kind of like really,
[2:44:44] Speaker 2: I don't know, rather rather a way away from I'm
[2:44:49] Speaker 2: not trying trying to runage. I think it's like like well,
[2:44:52] Speaker 2: you know, you know, bad bad. I don't think think's
[2:44:56] Speaker 2: like like any anything with God, God existing.
[2:45:03] Speaker 1: I agree yeah, the divide between the Protestants and the
[2:45:07] Speaker 1: Catholics don't amount to much in terms of answering the
[2:45:10] Speaker 1: question whether or not God exists. So back at the question, then,
[2:45:13] Speaker 1: what would be the evidence that the Christian God exists?
[2:45:20] Speaker 2: Well, well, I find because I already answer the question
[2:45:28] Speaker 2: question and give you an arment, it would would always
[2:45:33] Speaker 2: come out of the fact that I learned it from
[2:45:37] Speaker 2: from a book, right right, And that's like invite if
[2:45:45] Speaker 2: the then we can speak about well, whether it's uh,
[2:45:53] Speaker 2: it's a nature is to be distrust or it's constructed
[2:45:58] Speaker 2: on the way way that cantact legally separate, sparate, and
[2:46:04] Speaker 2: he's placed by peace.
[2:46:06] Speaker 1: Sure, so here's an argument. Jesus didn't fulfill a single
[2:46:09] Speaker 1: Messianic prophecy.
[2:46:12] Speaker 2: Okay, okay, Well the first first one, mind is that
[2:46:17] Speaker 2: which is prophet Micah. You're going to read it with me,
[2:46:22] Speaker 2: mm hmm with you, Ah, It's.
[2:46:29] Speaker 1: I can read it to you if you're okay with listening. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
[2:46:32] Speaker 1: sure so Micah five two says, but you, o, Bethlehem,
[2:46:36] Speaker 1: of a Pratha, who are of the little clans of
[2:46:38] Speaker 1: Judah from you shall come forth from me one who
[2:46:41] Speaker 1: is the rule in Israel whose origin is from old,
[2:46:44] Speaker 1: from ancient days. So when did Jesus rule in Israel?
[2:46:52] Speaker 2: I believe that is considered more more or less. But
[2:47:02] Speaker 2: the fact that Jesus is, where's that? Where can I
[2:47:12] Speaker 2: find that? Well over?
[2:47:19] Speaker 1: And I don't believe that things like if Jesus was
[2:47:24] Speaker 1: over the earth from Israel, I would expect to see
[2:47:26] Speaker 1: some evidence of Jesus in Israel.
[2:47:30] Speaker 2: Right right, but but okay, okay, the pull pull up again.
[2:47:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, Micah five two says, but you owe Bethlehem of
[2:47:45] Speaker 1: a Fratha, who are of the little clans of Judah?
[2:47:48] Speaker 1: From you shall come forth from me one who is
[2:47:50] Speaker 1: the rule in Israel, whose origin is from old, from
[2:47:53] Speaker 1: ancient days. So this is about the actual rulers.
[2:47:58] Speaker 2: Yeah, so I would Jesus when he return turns he was,
[2:48:15] Speaker 2: So when Jesus come second, will will as assole the
[2:48:25] Speaker 2: co Almo.
[2:48:26] Speaker 1: Everyone on TikTok is saying that your audio is echoing
[2:48:30] Speaker 1: really loud. Give me one second to turn something off
[2:48:33] Speaker 1: real quick. All right, what about now, let's see if
[2:48:36] Speaker 1: the echo goes away?
[2:48:39] Speaker 2: Yeah? Is that better? All right?
[2:48:40] Speaker 1: Over on the YouTube stream, guys, let me know if
[2:48:44] Speaker 1: the if Kirk is still echoing weird. I don't I
[2:48:47] Speaker 1: don't recall changing my setup here on stream Yard or
[2:48:52] Speaker 1: stream labs on my home computer. But sometimes when I
[2:48:55] Speaker 1: when I was away this last week and I installed
[2:48:57] Speaker 1: it on my travel machine, like it'll like some of
[2:49:02] Speaker 1: the settings I change on that machine will still affect
[2:49:05] Speaker 1: the other machine, like it tries to memorize some of
[2:49:08] Speaker 1: your settings, but then like it doesn't always grow. It's
[2:49:11] Speaker 1: so weird. Stream Labs is a bit of a nightmare.
[2:49:13] Speaker 1: But I think the echo's gone, So I think we're
[2:49:15] Speaker 1: good to go for now.
[2:49:18] Speaker 2: Okay, sounds good. Okay, so I apologize Kirk. What we're
[2:49:23] Speaker 2: you saying, I would say my best whack at it,
[2:49:28] Speaker 2: because to say that I would be called a theologian
[2:49:33] Speaker 2: would be incorrect. I'm a scientist. I'm not a theologian.
[2:49:37] Speaker 2: But Jesus will rule, so that is in revelation that
[2:49:42] Speaker 2: he will rule from Israel. So even though I know
[2:49:47] Speaker 2: you don't believe that he's ruling, and that's that's fair.
[2:49:52] Speaker 2: So we'll separate the fact that there is a there's
[2:49:57] Speaker 2: your belief of something that's true, and then the objective
[2:50:01] Speaker 2: nature of it. But what we're gonna do is take
[2:50:05] Speaker 2: upon ourselves the Judeo Christian framework. And so if we're
[2:50:10] Speaker 2: in the Judeo Christian framework, the understanding is that what
[2:50:14] Speaker 2: Jesus completed on the uh Gogatha when he was crucified
[2:50:21] Speaker 2: and then resurrected, we believe that that is his dominance
[2:50:28] Speaker 2: upon death, which is the which is what all men fear,
[2:50:32] Speaker 2: essentially is death. And these days taxes but in tariffs.
[2:50:37] Speaker 1: But right, but he didn't say anything about that. Like
[2:50:41] Speaker 1: all this stuff that you like about Jesus, none of
[2:50:43] Speaker 1: that is in the Messianic prophesies, and certainly not in
[2:50:46] Speaker 1: Micah five.
[2:50:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, but it's that's only determining one characteristic. Sure,
[2:50:53] Speaker 2: I mean, we can go Bethlehem, we can go to
[2:50:57] Speaker 2: all of it.
[2:50:57] Speaker 1: It also says that this person is going to be
[2:51:00] Speaker 1: like in the verse four says he will stand and
[2:51:03] Speaker 1: feed his flock in the strength of the Lord. That's Yahweh,
[2:51:07] Speaker 1: in the majesty of the name of Yahweh, his God,
[2:51:10] Speaker 1: meaning Yahweh is going to be his god. So it
[2:51:12] Speaker 1: seems to be like an actual king, like a human
[2:51:15] Speaker 1: being king, like a Messiah, not not a god himself.
[2:51:21] Speaker 2: Hmm.
[2:51:23] Speaker 4: So the.
[2:51:27] Speaker 2: The distinction there is the the Messiah is is a
[2:51:37] Speaker 2: divine The Messiah is considered divine.
[2:51:45] Speaker 13: Right, But but does Jesus have a God? Well, yeah,
[2:51:52] Speaker 13: so's he's not equal to God? Well no, he he
[2:51:57] Speaker 13: is himself God, So he's God.
[2:52:01] Speaker 2: But he has a God. So let's see here. I'll here.
[2:52:23] Speaker 2: I'll just put this right here real quick. I should
[2:52:25] Speaker 2: have done Isaiah fifty two, but that was my mistake.
[2:52:29] Speaker 1: I don't think that's going to help you either. I've
[2:52:31] Speaker 1: read every single prophecy about Jesus, and not a single
[2:52:33] Speaker 1: one of them lands. But that is Christian's favorite prophecy.
[2:52:41] Speaker 1: If I had to say there's one prophecy that Christians
[2:52:43] Speaker 1: turned to, I would say that's the one I cover
[2:52:46] Speaker 1: Isaiah fifty two and fifty three. I could be wrong
[2:52:49] Speaker 1: when I say this almost every time I'm live. I
[2:52:54] Speaker 1: don't know if there's been a time that I haven't
[2:52:57] Speaker 1: been able to talk about it when I was live.
[2:53:00] Speaker 1: Been talking about it three days a week for last
[2:53:04] Speaker 1: year and a half. Anyways. So we have like some
[2:53:12] Speaker 1: criteria for the Messiah that's given in the Hebrew scriptures,
[2:53:16] Speaker 1: and Jesus just didn't actually fulfill the criteria. And we've
[2:53:19] Speaker 1: got expectations on what's going to happen during the Messianic Age,
[2:53:24] Speaker 1: and none of that comes true, and it seems to
[2:53:26] Speaker 1: contradict what Jesus was supposed to do, or at least
[2:53:29] Speaker 1: what the Book of Hebrews says. Right, So, the Book
[2:53:31] Speaker 1: of Hebrews talks about Jesus being the final sacrifice and
[2:53:35] Speaker 1: put an end to the law of Moses and all
[2:53:36] Speaker 1: this nonsense, But the Old Testament didn't say anything like that.
[2:53:40] Speaker 1: The Old Testament depicts the Messianic Age as following the
[2:53:43] Speaker 1: laws of Moses. It's like if you go to Jeremiah
[2:53:46] Speaker 1: thirty three talks about the Messianic King. He says, the
[2:53:51] Speaker 1: days are surely coming, says the Lord, when I will
[2:53:53] Speaker 1: fulfill the promise that I made to the house of
[2:53:54] Speaker 1: Israel and to the house of Judah in those days,
[2:53:57] Speaker 1: and at that time I will cause a righteous branch
[2:54:00] Speaker 1: to spring up for David, and he will execute justice
[2:54:03] Speaker 1: and righteousness in the land. In those days, Judah will
[2:54:06] Speaker 1: be saved, and Jerusalem will live in safety. And this
[2:54:09] Speaker 1: is the name by which it would be called. The
[2:54:11] Speaker 1: Lord is our righteousness the last two verses, For thus
[2:54:14] Speaker 1: saith the Lord David shall never lack a man to
[2:54:17] Speaker 1: sit on the throne of the House of Israel, and
[2:54:19] Speaker 1: the levitical priests shall never lack a man in my
[2:54:22] Speaker 1: presence to offer burnt offerings, to make great offerings, and
[2:54:25] Speaker 1: to make sacrifices for all time. So that sounds like
[2:54:31] Speaker 1: the Lot of Moses. Yeah, I understand that.
[2:54:35] Speaker 2: I mean what I'll say is, in Micah, there's a
[2:54:39] Speaker 2: distinction between pre and post Jesus on the view of
[2:54:44] Speaker 2: the Messiah. So the the Messiah was identified in Daniel,
[2:54:49] Speaker 2: which I'm sure you understand, it's identified in Daniels. So
[2:54:54] Speaker 2: when Michael's when Micah is writing about it, it's not
[2:55:00] Speaker 2: the well Daniel was written hundreds of years after Micah.
[2:55:08] Speaker 2: When was Micah written?
[2:55:10] Speaker 1: So Micah was a contemporary of like Isaiah. In fact,
[2:55:16] Speaker 1: he lived shortly after Isaiah wrote, so he in Micah
[2:55:21] Speaker 1: chapter four he directly quotes Isaiah chapter two, and Micah
[2:55:26] Speaker 1: is listed in the Bible as a contemporary of the
[2:55:31] Speaker 1: of the major prophets.
[2:55:35] Speaker 2: Mm hmm, yeah, that's if we that that's if we
[2:55:43] Speaker 2: were talking about if Micah was learning from Uh from
[2:55:48] Speaker 2: something that was written, but he was actually inspired by
[2:55:51] Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit to write these things and write one
[2:55:57] Speaker 2: thing but.
[2:55:59] Speaker 1: To write what he wrote, Michael, Well, I know you
[2:56:02] Speaker 1: believe that, but I don't have reason to believe it.
[2:56:05] Speaker 1: And I don't think Daniel is going to help your
[2:56:07] Speaker 1: case at all, because I think Daniel is going to
[2:56:09] Speaker 1: make it even worse. Because the the figure in Daniel
[2:56:13] Speaker 1: chapter seven that seems to be taking the kingdom appears
[2:56:16] Speaker 1: to be Michael the archangel.
[2:56:20] Speaker 2: Can you can you explain that? Yeah?
[2:56:23] Speaker 1: Yeah, so in Daniel chapter seven.
[2:56:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, because I'll just be honest. The the reason why
[2:56:30] Speaker 2: is because and zeph and Iyah talks about the people
[2:56:35] Speaker 2: of God lying down in the houses of ash Kalan
[2:56:39] Speaker 2: and that the Lord will restore their land, and that's
[2:56:42] Speaker 2: where the October thing happened last year in Ashcalon. So like, well,
[2:56:47] Speaker 2: we can't really, we can't take the prophecy could be.
[2:56:55] Speaker 1: Was about the immediate future. So if you read the
[2:56:58] Speaker 1: first chapter of and he tells you that these are
[2:57:01] Speaker 1: events that are very soon to take place, they're immediate, absolutely.
[2:57:06] Speaker 2: But prophecy can also repeat itself. So I disagree history
[2:57:10] Speaker 2: repeats itself. Well, history does repeat itself, but prophecy doesn't, right,
[2:57:17] Speaker 2: But prophecy can be applied in multiple different ways, So
[2:57:21] Speaker 2: I agree differ.
[2:57:23] Speaker 1: I know you believe that, but why would why would
[2:57:25] Speaker 1: anyone else believe that? Like so, you're doing the same
[2:57:27] Speaker 1: thing the Mormons do. You're saying the prophecies were fulfilled originally,
[2:57:31] Speaker 1: and then they were fulfilled in Jesus, and then they
[2:57:33] Speaker 1: were fulfilled another time in Joseph Smith. But like so,
[2:57:37] Speaker 1: if you want me to believe that the prophecies of
[2:57:39] Speaker 1: the Old Testament be fulfilled twice, then I would ask
[2:57:42] Speaker 1: you to believe that they can be fulfilled three times.
[2:57:45] Speaker 2: Micah is no, I'm saying that they're fulfilled theologically one time,
[2:57:50] Speaker 2: but they can be applied to multiple different situations. I disagree.
[2:57:53] Speaker 1: Why would anyone want that? Why would anyone believe that?
[2:57:57] Speaker 2: Okay, but you can see the truth of the scriptures
[2:58:02] Speaker 2: in multiple different situations, I guess the best way to
[2:58:05] Speaker 2: say it.
[2:58:05] Speaker 1: But well, yeah, but that's not prophecy. That's just biblical principles.
[2:58:09] Speaker 1: Like biblical principles can be applied to anything. We're talking
[2:58:12] Speaker 1: about whether or not prophecies can be fulfilled once or
[2:58:15] Speaker 1: multiple times.
[2:58:17] Speaker 2: Okay, So theologically speaking, prophecies have to be fulfilled one time,
[2:58:23] Speaker 2: and Micah fulfills the prophecy of Jesus being born in Bethlehem.
[2:58:27] Speaker 1: I mean, he doesn't. It doesn't say that Jesus is
[2:58:30] Speaker 1: going to be born in Bethlehem. It says someone who
[2:58:32] Speaker 1: is going to be a ruler in Israel is going
[2:58:34] Speaker 1: to be born in Bethlehem. And it seems to be
[2:58:37] Speaker 1: that he's going to be a descendative of King David.
[2:58:39] Speaker 1: That's why it mentions Bethlehem and Aphratha. Those are the
[2:58:43] Speaker 1: most ancient ancestors in the Bible of King David, which
[2:58:47] Speaker 1: is why it says his origins are going to be
[2:58:48] Speaker 1: from old. These two individuals in the Book of Micah
[2:58:53] Speaker 1: aren't acting as actual cities. It's actually the lineages he's
[2:58:57] Speaker 1: referring to. The people group now just happens to be
[2:58:59] Speaker 1: the city of Bethlehem in the city of Fratha was
[2:59:03] Speaker 1: named after their ancestors, obviously. So the problem I have
[2:59:08] Speaker 1: is Jesus never ruled in Israel, and he wasn't from
[2:59:10] Speaker 1: the line of David.
[2:59:14] Speaker 2: Yes he was his father and his mother, Yes that
[2:59:18] Speaker 2: they were both from the house of David. No, his
[2:59:20] Speaker 2: father was God.
[2:59:22] Speaker 1: Joseph wasn't his father. And we have no idea what
[2:59:25] Speaker 1: mary Is lineage is. But she's the sister of Elizabeth,
[2:59:29] Speaker 1: and in the very in the first chapter of the
[2:59:33] Speaker 1: Book of Luke, it says that Mary's sister was a Levite,
[2:59:37] Speaker 1: which means she's a Levite.
[2:59:42] Speaker 2: So to pull it back there is there are references
[2:59:48] Speaker 2: to Jesus being from both houses, so you have to
[2:59:53] Speaker 2: understand it's not there's the aspect of God being jesus
[3:00:00] Speaker 2: 's father, which we can say right the Holy Spirit,
[3:00:03] Speaker 2: if you will, is the actual element of what we
[3:00:08] Speaker 2: would call his father. But when it comes to the
[3:00:12] Speaker 2: Jewish standard, he dwelled under the Father, under the father's house,
[3:00:17] Speaker 2: which is Joseph, and that was the inheritance that he
[3:00:23] Speaker 2: received as being of that house under his father.
[3:00:27] Speaker 1: It wasn't so he wasn't from the line of David.
[3:00:29] Speaker 1: He was adopted theoretically.
[3:00:34] Speaker 2: Well, that's besides the point, because he was born to married.
[3:00:39] Speaker 1: I think it's a really good point. And like if
[3:00:43] Speaker 1: the Old Testament says that the king is going to
[3:00:45] Speaker 1: be a descendant of King David, I'm I'm under the
[3:00:48] Speaker 1: impression that is going to be a legitimate descendant, not
[3:00:51] Speaker 1: just someone who was theoretically adopted. But the lineage going
[3:00:55] Speaker 1: to Joseph has got a lot more problems than just
[3:00:57] Speaker 1: the adoption.
[3:01:00] Speaker 2: Mary is from what I understand, Mary comes from the
[3:01:06] Speaker 2: lineage of David.
[3:01:08] Speaker 1: She does not, in fact, not only do I know
[3:01:12] Speaker 1: that she doesn't. I will venmo you one hundred dollars
[3:01:16] Speaker 1: if you can find that in the Bible for me.
[3:01:17] Speaker 1: I'll do it right now, live on stream.
[3:01:23] Speaker 2: Right let me see m I'm finding Luke three twenty three.
[3:02:21] Speaker 1: Nope, So we'll we'll read Luke and then I'm gonna
[3:02:26] Speaker 1: show you why Luke three twenty three doesn't say what
[3:02:28] Speaker 1: you think it says. So if you go to the
[3:02:31] Speaker 1: visitation of Mary and the Elizabeth in Luke chapter one says, uh,
[3:02:36] Speaker 1: let's see during the visitation her Elizabeth is said to
[3:02:42] Speaker 1: come from and try to believe I give me a
[3:02:43] Speaker 1: second blah blah blah blah blah. Virgin Mary maybe found
[3:02:48] Speaker 1: favorite God. I'm just now you're relative blah blah blah blah.
[3:02:56] Speaker 1: Let's see where in the world is say that she's
[3:03:00] Speaker 1: from the trip of LEVI why is this versus eluding me?
[3:03:04] Speaker 1: Now I have to google it? See Luke chapter one?
[3:03:10] Speaker 1: Was it too late? In the chapter verse five to seventeen,
[3:03:13] Speaker 1: let's see it says blah blah blah blah blah. Okay
[3:03:18] Speaker 1: says his wife descended from the daughter Oh I thought
[3:03:21] Speaker 1: it said Levi says, daughters of Erin. That's why I
[3:03:23] Speaker 1: was wrong. Okay, says his wife, meaning Elizabeth, was descendant
[3:03:29] Speaker 1: from the daughters of Erin, and her name was Elizabeth.
[3:03:33] Speaker 1: So the sister of Mary came from the line of Erin.
[3:03:37] Speaker 1: We have no idea who her actual parents is. Who
[3:03:42] Speaker 1: her actual parents are. Now, if you go to Luke
[3:03:44] Speaker 1: chapter three, what you find is the lineage of Joseph,
[3:03:47] Speaker 1: not of Mary. So in twenty three says Jesus was
[3:03:53] Speaker 1: about thirty years old when he began his work. He
[3:03:56] Speaker 1: was the son, as a thought of Joseph, son of Elis,
[3:04:00] Speaker 1: of my thought, son of Levi, son of melchies on
[3:04:04] Speaker 1: and so forth. So Mary's not mentioned here.
[3:04:11] Speaker 2: Okay, understandable, uh I. I believe that well, sister could
[3:04:19] Speaker 2: be used in different ways, and in Hebrew it is
[3:04:23] Speaker 2: used in if you if when when you look at
[3:04:27] Speaker 2: the Hebrew, it does say certain things that can be disputed.
[3:04:32] Speaker 2: But I'm I'm actually instructed if if I do have
[3:04:37] Speaker 2: to stick back with you know, with my roots, so
[3:04:43] Speaker 2: to speak, I am instructed not to debate genealogies because
[3:04:48] Speaker 2: it's in vain. We can try one.
[3:04:53] Speaker 1: Vaci because both genealogies and Matthew and Luke are cursed
[3:04:57] Speaker 1: by the way. In Matthew it goes through Jack and Ayah,
[3:05:00] Speaker 1: and it said in Jeremiah twenty two that none of
[3:05:02] Speaker 1: his descendants will sit on the throne of King David.
[3:05:05] Speaker 1: And the other gealogy is not cursed. But Luke goes
[3:05:08] Speaker 1: through the son of David named Nathan rather than Solomon.
[3:05:12] Speaker 1: And God established the throne of King David through Solomon,
[3:05:15] Speaker 1: not Nathan.
[3:05:18] Speaker 2: Okay, I don't believe that determines the throne, but does
[3:05:24] Speaker 2: read the verse? No, that's okay.
[3:05:29] Speaker 1: Well, well I'll read it for you because it's I
[3:05:32] Speaker 1: think it's I think it's kind of an important verse
[3:05:34] Speaker 1: to read. So David was a king and his son
[3:05:40] Speaker 1: that took over for him was not Nathan, it was
[3:05:43] Speaker 1: it was actually it's actually Solomon. And this is in
[3:05:49] Speaker 1: First Chronicles twenty two. I me pull up the verse
[3:05:56] Speaker 1: see twenty two, and we're going to be about in
[3:05:58] Speaker 1: verse nine ish.
[3:06:02] Speaker 2: It says Nathan's mother. But who is Nathan's mother?
[3:06:07] Speaker 1: Well, one of the wives is David. But the question
[3:06:10] Speaker 1: is for the throne right is See, his son shall
[3:06:12] Speaker 1: be born to you. He shall be a man of rest.
[3:06:15] Speaker 1: I will give him rest of them, all of his
[3:06:16] Speaker 1: enemies on every side. Indeed, his name shall be Solomon,
[3:06:19] Speaker 1: and I will give peace and quiet to Israel. In
[3:06:21] Speaker 1: his days. He shall build a house for my name.
[3:06:23] Speaker 1: He shall be a son to me, and I would
[3:06:25] Speaker 1: be a father to him, and I will establish his
[3:06:27] Speaker 1: royal throne in Israel forever. There's no royal throne of Nathan.
[3:06:35] Speaker 2: Okay, it's I would say that you're you're looking at
[3:06:48] Speaker 2: a physical throne. But why would I not, Well, because
[3:06:58] Speaker 2: when you're looking at a physical throne, then you're constraining
[3:07:02] Speaker 2: what it's actually saying, because Jesus doesn't have any limits
[3:07:06] Speaker 2: in that regard.
[3:07:07] Speaker 1: Well, I don't care what Jesus has. I'm using the
[3:07:09] Speaker 1: words of the book. So the Old Testament talks about
[3:07:12] Speaker 1: the throne of David as a physical throne. That's why
[3:07:14] Speaker 1: it says in Jeremih thirty three that he's going to
[3:07:18] Speaker 1: be like, there's going to be a king on the
[3:07:20] Speaker 1: throne in Israel, and he's going to rescue Israel from
[3:07:23] Speaker 1: their enemies.
[3:07:25] Speaker 2: And as you can see, I'm sure you're familiar with
[3:07:28] Speaker 2: Maccabee's and so on and so forth. There had not
[3:07:33] Speaker 2: been anybody to return to that position well after the diaspora.
[3:07:40] Speaker 2: So wait that it's the great silence after I can't
[3:07:52] Speaker 2: remember there were kings. Sure, there were herods and whatnot,
[3:07:58] Speaker 2: but there wasn't no fire to hear, no, no no
[3:08:03] Speaker 2: herod's a title.
[3:08:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, are you familiar with the hasmoneine kings?
[3:08:11] Speaker 2: Vaguely? I mean, I haven't really gone over Israeli history.
[3:08:16] Speaker 2: It's why I just have to make kind of wide
[3:08:19] Speaker 2: sweeping general statements because it's I only have limited knowledge
[3:08:26] Speaker 2: in that regard, So I don't know about that.
[3:08:30] Speaker 1: So, I mean there's a bunch of you know, has
[3:08:32] Speaker 1: many in rulers. You already know about Jonathan mccabeus, Simon mccabeus,
[3:08:37] Speaker 1: and then maybe the most famous is John Hurricanus. Alexander
[3:08:42] Speaker 1: Janeis was popular. There was another John Hurricanus that came later.
[3:08:47] Speaker 1: Like there was a whole succession of kings leading that
[3:08:49] Speaker 1: Hasmenian dynasty.
[3:08:52] Speaker 2: Sure, but there did any of them? Did any of
[3:08:57] Speaker 2: them assume what we would call what your calling the
[3:09:00] Speaker 2: throne of David?
[3:09:01] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[3:09:02] Speaker 1: They all said on the throne. They were actual kings.
[3:09:05] Speaker 1: Even Simon Barkopa did during the the end of the
[3:09:09] Speaker 1: first century beginning of the second century. Simon Barkokva was
[3:09:13] Speaker 1: an actual prince in Israel.
[3:09:16] Speaker 2: M Okay, then I guess that, like I said, I
[3:09:24] Speaker 2: don't know so learning stuff. I just know about the
[3:09:28] Speaker 2: Maccabees that they tried to revolt. But from my understanding,
[3:09:32] Speaker 2: the the the the san Hedron was the ruler after
[3:09:38] Speaker 2: the Diaspora because there wasn't actually legitimate kings that were
[3:09:45] Speaker 2: in control. I understand the North in Israel and the
[3:09:48] Speaker 2: tribes and the and the breakup between them, but well,
[3:09:52] Speaker 2: to me, it seems like the Diaspora period there wasn't
[3:09:55] Speaker 2: what you're calling the throne of David being assumed by
[3:09:58] Speaker 2: a king.
[3:09:59] Speaker 1: Well, there certainly was in the Sanhedrin, according to a
[3:10:03] Speaker 1: Jewish custom, theoretically was before the Diaspora. In fact, it
[3:10:09] Speaker 1: goes all the way back to the pre Babylonian period.
[3:10:12] Speaker 1: In fact, if you read the Talmud, they say that
[3:10:15] Speaker 1: it actually goes all the way back to Moses, and
[3:10:17] Speaker 1: we see in the Book of Exodus Moses himself has
[3:10:21] Speaker 1: a council of elders. There are seventy of them.
[3:10:25] Speaker 2: Okay, if that's how we're going to define the throne
[3:10:27] Speaker 2: of David, then sure, yeah, then there is a physical
[3:10:30] Speaker 2: throne that was handed down and there were herods and
[3:10:32] Speaker 2: so on and so forth around the time of Jesus.
[3:10:36] Speaker 2: I'm guessing that assumed assume that throne. But that doesn't
[3:10:45] Speaker 2: that doesn't mean the prophecy's incorrect. Where it's saying that
[3:10:49] Speaker 2: he's assuming a throne, it's a spiritual It's just like,
[3:10:56] Speaker 2: how well, okay, are you familiar with Psalms eighty nine.
[3:11:03] Speaker 1: I'm familiar with most of the Psalms, but I have
[3:11:07] Speaker 1: to be honest, I don't read the Psalms as much
[3:11:08] Speaker 1: as I read the rest of the Old Testament.
[3:11:12] Speaker 2: Sure, so Psalms is an important since we're talking about David.
[3:11:15] Speaker 2: Psalms considers the firstborn, but he was actually the last born,
[3:11:23] Speaker 2: and they believe he was technically the child of an
[3:11:27] Speaker 2: affair that his father took care of. That's why he
[3:11:32] Speaker 2: was the shepherd out in the fields and not in
[3:11:36] Speaker 2: other situations. That's just besides the point. But David, let's
[3:11:43] Speaker 2: just say he was a legitimate son. He was the
[3:11:45] Speaker 2: last born, but he was anointed as king. So the
[3:11:51] Speaker 2: anointing of the king is besides the point of the
[3:11:56] Speaker 2: throne being carried down to Jesus. Of what you're talking about,
[3:12:00] Speaker 2: because what the requirement of the Messiah is to be
[3:12:05] Speaker 2: from the house of David, which is fulfilled through Nathan.
[3:12:09] Speaker 2: And that's fine because because it's a Okay, I'm looking
[3:12:13] Speaker 2: at a lineage right now from David to Mary and
[3:12:17] Speaker 2: she was from the house you're not of David. And okay,
[3:12:21] Speaker 2: I'm shooking at it. Well, give me the verse I okay,
[3:12:38] Speaker 2: it's not one verse.
[3:12:39] Speaker 1: I mean, you can't give me whatever verses you think
[3:12:42] Speaker 1: we'll get you there.
[3:12:46] Speaker 2: Well, it's the coming from the house of Heally, son
[3:12:52] Speaker 2: of Heally.
[3:12:54] Speaker 1: That's going to Joseph, not Mary. Mary's not mentioned Luke three.
[3:13:04] Speaker 2: So okay, I'm getting mixed up. Sorry.
[3:13:12] Speaker 1: So this was already solved like fifteen hundred years ago
[3:13:16] Speaker 1: when Eusebius wrote about this.
[3:13:19] Speaker 4: You.
[3:13:19] Speaker 1: Hebius clarified why Matthew and Luke disagree on the parents
[3:13:24] Speaker 1: of Joseph is because Joseph had two fathers and one
[3:13:29] Speaker 1: of them was a stepfather.
[3:13:31] Speaker 2: There has nothing to do with Mary, right, but the
[3:13:40] Speaker 2: fulfillment of the fulfillment of the messianic status of what
[3:13:46] Speaker 2: we're talking about. So, regardless of the points, at the
[3:13:50] Speaker 2: points at which I'm right or wrong, the fact that
[3:13:54] Speaker 2: Jesus it has fulfilled the Messiah, the Messianic But he
[3:14:00] Speaker 2: didn't want to be from David. He wasn't his because Joseph.
[3:14:06] Speaker 2: He dwelled in Joseph's house.
[3:14:10] Speaker 1: So because he was theoretically adopted, well yeah, I mean
[3:14:18] Speaker 1: so he was at the time, he was descendant from
[3:14:20] Speaker 1: King David. On a technicality, it's all technicalities, Yes, it's okay.
[3:14:28] Speaker 1: So if you believe in technicalities, then you believe that
[3:14:31] Speaker 1: both those genealogies, neither one of them are appropriate for
[3:14:34] Speaker 1: a king. I already told you. Jeremiah twenty two says
[3:14:37] Speaker 1: that no descendant from Jack and I will sit on
[3:14:39] Speaker 1: the throne of King David. And we already know that
[3:14:42] Speaker 1: the throne was promised through Solomon. Look.
[3:14:44] Speaker 2: Look, look, look three gives you the genealogy.
[3:14:47] Speaker 1: I know I've read it.
[3:14:48] Speaker 2: I mean, that's why I know it's false. I've read
[3:14:50] Speaker 2: every last word of it. Okay, what could it could
[3:14:56] Speaker 2: it be that you're wrong? No, so are you the
[3:15:03] Speaker 2: arbiter of truth? Or could you be right.
[3:15:06] Speaker 1: Can you prove me wrong?
[3:15:09] Speaker 2: Well, yes, the scriptures waiting for it. The scriptures literally
[3:15:15] Speaker 2: are telling you the genealogy.
[3:15:17] Speaker 1: You know, and neither of the genealogies actually go to
[3:15:21] Speaker 1: someone who birthed Jesus. It's just someone who theoretically adopted Jesus.
[3:15:25] Speaker 1: And both of them are illegitimate. One of them goes
[3:15:28] Speaker 1: through a cursed line and one of them goes through
[3:15:31] Speaker 1: a line that's not Solomon. It's just bad scribal world so.
[3:15:37] Speaker 2: So, but it doesn't matter. See. The thing is, you
[3:15:42] Speaker 2: can't be a skeptic atheist and say that and then
[3:15:46] Speaker 2: care about what's cursed and what's not.
[3:15:50] Speaker 1: You know, I'm making an internal critique on your world view.
[3:15:54] Speaker 1: I don't think any of this is true. I don't
[3:15:55] Speaker 1: think that these people. Half of them probably didn't even exist.
[3:15:59] Speaker 1: It doesn't matter to me if it's accurate. I'm adopting
[3:16:03] Speaker 1: the worldview that the Bible says things, and that the
[3:16:08] Speaker 1: New Testament claims to be fulfillment of the Old Testament.
[3:16:11] Speaker 1: What I'm pointing out is that Jesus didn't fulfill any
[3:16:14] Speaker 1: requirements of the Messiah in the Old Testament. Not one did.
[3:16:19] Speaker 2: Jesus exist probably did he perform miracles?
[3:16:25] Speaker 1: Like what they say, I have no reason to believe that.
[3:16:28] Speaker 2: No, Okay, could it be true?
[3:16:31] Speaker 1: Could it be true that Vespasian did miracles by the
[3:16:34] Speaker 1: power of therapists?
[3:16:38] Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, honestly, yeah, because miracles. No, no, no,
[3:16:46] Speaker 2: But what we're we're not talking about him, We're talking
[3:16:49] Speaker 2: about Jesus, right, I'm sayings.
[3:16:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, it has the same probability as Emperor Vespasian doing miracles.
[3:16:57] Speaker 1: Both of them have the same probability.
[3:16:59] Speaker 2: Yep, I understand that. But we can't lilypad to some
[3:17:05] Speaker 2: other to an obscurity. We're talking about.
[3:17:09] Speaker 1: You, obscure. The two different moment historians wrote about it
[3:17:13] Speaker 1: and said that it happened in front of a multitude
[3:17:15] Speaker 1: of witnesses.
[3:17:17] Speaker 2: Okay, So what I'm saying, what I'm talking about is
[3:17:22] Speaker 2: with Jesus, I'm talking about with all the insurmountable amounts
[3:17:28] Speaker 2: of proof, I'm not denying that something miraculous happened. Okay.
[3:17:32] Speaker 2: There are tons of manuscripts, So I mean, if that's
[3:17:36] Speaker 2: really what you want to argue about, there's more manuscripts, then.
[3:17:39] Speaker 1: The majority of the manuscripts come from the medieval period.
[3:17:44] Speaker 2: No, yeah, they do.
[3:17:45] Speaker 1: Let me show you a chart. Oh sure, yeah, name
[3:17:49] Speaker 1: one manuscript from the first century.
[3:17:51] Speaker 2: Can you do it? Like I said, I'm not a theologian,
[3:17:57] Speaker 2: but I do from recent searching it I know, and
[3:18:02] Speaker 2: I don't know.
[3:18:03] Speaker 1: Because I actually have done the research. I actually did
[3:18:06] Speaker 1: go to school for this and study this professionally. And
[3:18:08] Speaker 1: you're wrong. And I've actually got it in an Excel spreadsheet.
[3:18:11] Speaker 1: I've got a chart and probably everyone can see it,
[3:18:14] Speaker 1: but you. I'm gonna put it on the screen and
[3:18:17] Speaker 1: let me see if there's a way to share.
[3:18:18] Speaker 2: My browser with you.
[3:18:19] Speaker 1: One second. Let's see. I think it's this button right here.
[3:18:24] Speaker 1: I should be able to share this with you. No,
[3:18:30] Speaker 1: not that one. That one. You should be able to
[3:18:36] Speaker 1: see my browser.
[3:18:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, let's see. Let me see here. Okay.
[3:18:44] Speaker 1: This is a distribution of all the New Testament manuscripts
[3:18:47] Speaker 1: that we have extand and what you'll discover is not
[3:18:50] Speaker 1: a single one of them is from the first century.
[3:18:52] Speaker 1: We've got four of them from the second century, and
[3:18:54] Speaker 1: the four that we have for the second century are
[3:18:56] Speaker 1: the size of the palm of my hand. Mm hmm.
[3:19:05] Speaker 2: Okay, uh, I mean it's the the the manuscripts from
[3:19:16] Speaker 2: the first century were used to compile that was a leftover,
[3:19:20] Speaker 2: or we.
[3:19:21] Speaker 1: Don't have those manuscripts. You're just you're presuming they exist.
[3:19:32] Speaker 2: Okay, I'll look, I'll get up bocklish.
[3:19:36] Speaker 1: Uh googling hasn't really helped you so far during this conversation.
[3:19:46] Speaker 1: You think it's gonna help you out.
[3:19:48] Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's pretty helpful. I mean, you're right,
[3:19:52] Speaker 2: like I, I actually assumed. I didn't know that. I
[3:19:55] Speaker 2: thought you were, uh, the the arguing scientific stuff, because
[3:20:02] Speaker 2: that's just what I heard. So that's just what I assumed.
[3:20:05] Speaker 2: I know those arguments a lot better. When it comes
[3:20:07] Speaker 2: to the theology and stuff I the or historical facts
[3:20:17] Speaker 2: around where these things come from. I actually don't believe
[3:20:21] Speaker 2: that that's an inhibitor. So I'm actually I actually don't
[3:20:25] Speaker 2: elevate the scriptures to the place of the Holy Spirit.
[3:20:29] Speaker 2: I actually believe the Holy Spirit is the one who
[3:20:32] Speaker 2: inspired the scriptures, and he actually knows all things, so
[3:20:36] Speaker 2: he can actually teach you anything and everything. So I
[3:20:40] Speaker 2: am not a I believe sola scriptra that the scriptures
[3:20:45] Speaker 2: have ultimate authority, but I believe that people interpret them incorrectly.
[3:20:49] Speaker 1: So I am I do not believe give an interpretation
[3:20:54] Speaker 1: for me using the Holy Spirit. I want you to
[3:20:56] Speaker 1: turn to Jeremiah thirty three fourteen.
[3:21:04] Speaker 2: Uh yeah, thirty three fourteen.
[3:21:08] Speaker 1: Yep, we're gonna read fourteen through eighteen. Okay, I'm gonna
[3:21:13] Speaker 1: ask you some some questions. I'm in the NRSV.
[3:21:17] Speaker 2: By the way, NRSV. What what is that?
[3:21:22] Speaker 1: The new revised Andandard version. I'm in the updated.
[3:21:26] Speaker 2: NRSV. E. I mean, any chance we could use the
[3:21:34] Speaker 2: something more? I I don't know, cause I haven't used
[3:21:40] Speaker 2: that one before. It's a good one, I I. It
[3:21:43] Speaker 2: doesn't really matter, it doesn't You can read it. It's fine.
[3:21:46] Speaker 1: Yeah. The days are surely coming, says the Lord. When
[3:21:49] Speaker 1: I will fulfill the promise that I made to the
[3:21:51] Speaker 1: House of Israel and the House of Judah in those days,
[3:21:54] Speaker 1: and at that time, I will cause a righteous branch
[3:21:57] Speaker 1: to spring up for David, and he shall execute justice
[3:21:59] Speaker 1: and righteousness in the lane. And in those days Judah
[3:22:01] Speaker 1: will be saved, and Jerusalem will live in safety. What
[3:22:04] Speaker 1: does that mean? What does it mean to live in safety?
[3:22:14] Speaker 2: Well? Just as a clarification, did you you studied Hebrew?
[3:22:25] Speaker 1: Okay?
[3:22:28] Speaker 2: Did you?
[3:22:29] Speaker 1: Was it?
[3:22:29] Speaker 2: Was it a course? Or did you do advanced like interpretation.
[3:22:34] Speaker 1: In four years of Hebrew class.
[3:22:38] Speaker 2: Okay, no, that's I just was curious. That's actually really impressive.
[3:22:42] Speaker 2: It's actually really difficult language to learn.
[3:22:47] Speaker 1: A lot of people don't like it. I I kind
[3:22:48] Speaker 1: of enjoyed it.
[3:22:51] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, just a little bit.
[3:22:52] Speaker 15: I know.
[3:22:53] Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's cool how the words are pictograms.
[3:22:56] Speaker 2: So I like, you know, don't don't don't Who told
[3:23:00] Speaker 2: you that they're not picktograms? Okay, So we'll be called
[3:23:06] Speaker 2: our righteousness, no imagination, just all all logic. The name
[3:23:14] Speaker 2: by which so let me see said safely, I mean
[3:23:21] Speaker 2: safety means to be delivered or to be protected garden. Yeah,
[3:23:29] Speaker 2: I agree.
[3:23:29] Speaker 1: Right, So the promise that was made they're referring to,
[3:23:33] Speaker 1: is to rescue Israel from the hands of their enemy,
[3:23:35] Speaker 1: which is why you know, you can see that just
[3:23:37] Speaker 1: a couple of verses prior he says that they're going
[3:23:39] Speaker 1: to be rescued. Says, in the towns of the whole
[3:23:41] Speaker 1: country of the Shuffala of the Neative, in the land
[3:23:43] Speaker 1: of Benjamin and the places around Jerusalem, and then the
[3:23:47] Speaker 1: towns of Judah, flocks shall again pass under the hands
[3:23:50] Speaker 1: of the one who counts them as the Lord. This
[3:23:52] Speaker 1: is a time of peace where they're rescued from their enemies,
[3:23:56] Speaker 1: isn't it.
[3:23:59] Speaker 2: Well, they Jesus did rescue from I mean, he rescued
[3:24:04] Speaker 2: his people from the Romans, the enemy. Romans kick their heads. Well,
[3:24:08] Speaker 2: that's not their enemy. Well, right, but if you if
[3:24:11] Speaker 2: we take Paul, he says that, why.
[3:24:14] Speaker 1: Would I take Paul? You can assuming that I should,
[3:24:17] Speaker 1: that I should care what the New Testament says like.
[3:24:20] Speaker 2: Well you should, Well I don't. That's besides.
[3:24:23] Speaker 1: That's my point is the New Testament when it looks
[3:24:26] Speaker 1: back on the Old Testament, it's abusing the Hebrew scriptures.
[3:24:29] Speaker 1: It's misinterpreting it every time.
[3:24:33] Speaker 2: Okay, Well, Paul says, our enemy is not flesh and blood.
[3:24:37] Speaker 2: So when I lean on that, I say, okay, the
[3:24:41] Speaker 2: enemy that is being spoken of or being prophesied, that's
[3:24:45] Speaker 2: more important. It's not being spoken by Jeremiah. It's being prophesied.
[3:24:49] Speaker 2: The enemy is the Hacitan. It is not the literal
[3:24:56] Speaker 2: enemy that you're speaking of.
[3:24:58] Speaker 1: But it was Satan preventing them from shepherding flocks in
[3:25:02] Speaker 1: the Chuffala and the negative.
[3:25:08] Speaker 2: Sorry, I have to what verse is it?
[3:25:10] Speaker 1: We're still in Jeremiah thirty three. He says, I will
[3:25:14] Speaker 1: restore the fortunes of the land as at first the
[3:25:18] Speaker 1: fortunes of the land.
[3:25:19] Speaker 2: Sorry, yeah, sorry, let me.
[3:25:23] Speaker 1: These are physical locations. They're being rescued from physical dangers.
[3:25:38] Speaker 2: Who do you believe that it's speaking of? Do you have?
[3:25:42] Speaker 1: It's not a who anati, it's a what it's talking
[3:25:47] Speaker 1: about the Messianic age, when Israel's going to be completely
[3:25:50] Speaker 1: restored and they're going to be living in peace, just
[3:25:52] Speaker 1: like Isaiah chapter two. Mike chapter four said. That's why
[3:25:56] Speaker 1: it says so that they're going to live in peace
[3:26:01] Speaker 1: and security.
[3:26:03] Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it's wrong of you to to suppose
[3:26:07] Speaker 2: that that's not speaking of what the work that Jesus did.
[3:26:12] Speaker 1: Jesus didn't allow them to live in peace and security.
[3:26:14] Speaker 1: That they got crushed by the Romans.
[3:26:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's just the physical result of what the
[3:26:26] Speaker 2: Romans did. I know that's the physical result.
[3:26:28] Speaker 1: I'm aware. But that's what the prophecy says. The prophecy
[3:26:31] Speaker 1: says that they're going to be rescued, they're going to
[3:26:34] Speaker 1: live in safety. Didn't it didn't say anything about Satan.
[3:26:41] Speaker 1: Satan's not a divine enemy of anyone in the Old Testament, Yes,
[3:26:46] Speaker 1: he is, He's got tnchament in the Old Testament. He does.
[3:26:51] Speaker 1: Satan only does what God tells him to.
[3:26:55] Speaker 2: He Satan only does what God allows him to.
[3:26:58] Speaker 1: Same thing. God doesn't use Satan. No, no, he does
[3:27:05] Speaker 1: Job Chapter one. No, God, God tells Job what he
[3:27:09] Speaker 1: can do. God decided that that he was going to
[3:27:13] Speaker 1: allow to say into torment job. Yeah, he ordained it right, Yeah, exactly.
[3:27:19] Speaker 1: Satan only does what God lets him do.
[3:27:22] Speaker 2: Do you do you so? Do you believe that people
[3:27:26] Speaker 2: should so? One thing I heard you say earlier, which
[3:27:29] Speaker 2: is I thought what the line that we're going to
[3:27:31] Speaker 2: go on was, do you believe that uh suffering is?
[3:27:40] Speaker 1: We're still We're still on Jeremiah thirty three. I'd love
[3:27:43] Speaker 1: to do a Theodo the odsy with you when we
[3:27:46] Speaker 1: get through this Jeremiah thirty three. He says that he's
[3:27:50] Speaker 1: going to restore the fortunes of the land. As at
[3:27:53] Speaker 1: first does that mean?
[3:27:57] Speaker 6: So?
[3:27:58] Speaker 2: What comes to mind is the scales have been weighed,
[3:28:05] Speaker 2: You've been measured and found wanting.
[3:28:08] Speaker 4: And so.
[3:28:10] Speaker 2: And then in Revelation, Jesus says.
[3:28:14] Speaker 1: Focus up, what does it mean to have their land restored?
[3:28:18] Speaker 1: Have their fortunes restored in the land. What does that mean?
[3:28:22] Speaker 2: Well, that's what I'm explaining. Let me finish. It's like
[3:28:26] Speaker 2: a one temple answer. In Revelation. Jesus said, I'll give
[3:28:32] Speaker 2: you gold to buy riches from me. That's what he
[3:28:36] Speaker 2: did for us in the land, in the land of Israel. Well,
[3:28:41] Speaker 2: that's where he Yeah, that's where he was, that's where
[3:28:43] Speaker 2: he lived. Those were his people. Okay, so can't We
[3:28:46] Speaker 2: can't separate the fact that Jesus is a Jew, He's Jewish, but.
[3:28:51] Speaker 1: We can separate the fact that he didn't do anything
[3:28:53] Speaker 1: that Jeremiah thirty three predicted. Jeremier thirty three says that
[3:28:56] Speaker 1: y'a always going to restore the fortunes of of the
[3:28:59] Speaker 1: land as how it was before, and then he describes
[3:29:03] Speaker 1: what that means. He says that in this place that
[3:29:06] Speaker 1: is that is currently a waste without humans or animals,
[3:29:09] Speaker 1: and in all of its towns or shall agin be
[3:29:11] Speaker 1: pasture for shepherds resting their flocks. In the towns of
[3:29:14] Speaker 1: the hill country of the Sheffala of the Negative, in
[3:29:16] Speaker 1: the land of Benjamin, the places around Jerusalem, and in
[3:29:20] Speaker 1: the towns of Judah, flocks shall again pass under the
[3:29:23] Speaker 1: hands of those who cut themselves the Lord. These are
[3:29:26] Speaker 1: physical people, physical sheep in a physical land. This is
[3:29:30] Speaker 1: what's supposed to happen when the Messiah comes. No, yeah, no, no, no,
[3:29:35] Speaker 1: that's what it says.
[3:29:36] Speaker 2: Because Jesus na, because Jesus spoke metaphorically about people like
[3:29:41] Speaker 2: sheep as a flock.
[3:29:42] Speaker 1: He said, I don't care what Jesus said. I'm talking
[3:29:45] Speaker 1: about Jeremiah said, Okay, Jeremiah lists of physical locations is
[3:29:51] Speaker 1: the land of the Sheffala and the negative metaphors are
[3:29:55] Speaker 1: those real places.
[3:29:58] Speaker 2: So I'm gonna I'm gonna step back from that real quick.
[3:30:02] Speaker 1: I'm gonna say I would I would avoid the clear
[3:30:04] Speaker 1: language about land as well.
[3:30:06] Speaker 2: Yes, we're we're taught, we're talking. I'll try to answer
[3:30:10] Speaker 2: it like I said, I mean, I'm not You're you're
[3:30:13] Speaker 2: much more educated than I am on this, But I'm
[3:30:16] Speaker 2: gonna step back and say, we're talking about Jesus fulfilling
[3:30:19] Speaker 2: the Messianic prophecy.
[3:30:21] Speaker 1: But he didn't.
[3:30:22] Speaker 2: Okay, so so but I know, but I know what
[3:30:27] Speaker 2: you what you're saying. But what I'm saying is that
[3:30:31] Speaker 2: we're talking about that in this in this frame. So
[3:30:35] Speaker 2: if we're talking about that, I'm going to tell I'm
[3:30:39] Speaker 2: telling you how this is going to relate to him. Yeah.
[3:30:43] Speaker 2: If you say it doesn't matter what Jesus says, well,
[3:30:46] Speaker 2: then what's even the point of talking about him being
[3:30:49] Speaker 2: the Messiah? Because he even claimed to be the Messiah? Why, well,
[3:30:53] Speaker 2: so did Simon Barkoka.
[3:30:55] Speaker 1: No one cares. The question is did he fulfill the prophecy?
[3:30:58] Speaker 2: But he but he didn't. He did and bring himself
[3:31:00] Speaker 2: back up from life.
[3:31:01] Speaker 1: There's no prophecy about that. There's no prophecy about a resurrection.
[3:31:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, you can't.
[3:31:09] Speaker 1: You're looking at a bona fide methianic prophecy right now,
[3:31:12] Speaker 1: and you can't deal with it. Jeremiah thirty three is
[3:31:15] Speaker 1: a legitimate, actual Messianic prophecy. And the reason why it
[3:31:20] Speaker 1: doesn't show up in the New Testament you're not telling
[3:31:23] Speaker 1: me where is the Sheffala and where is the negative?
[3:31:35] Speaker 2: What verse is it?
[3:31:36] Speaker 1: Chapter thirty three thirteen?
[3:31:40] Speaker 2: Okay, in the land of Benjamin and the cities of Judah.
[3:31:52] Speaker 1: Yeah, are those physical places.
[3:31:56] Speaker 2: The land of Benjamin? M hm, that's the tribal uh.
[3:32:06] Speaker 2: I mean, is it a physical location? But I would
[3:32:10] Speaker 2: say there were tribes that.
[3:32:13] Speaker 1: The physical location is the land of Benjamin a physical land. No,
[3:32:21] Speaker 1: the land of Benjamin is not a physical land.
[3:32:23] Speaker 2: Okay.
[3:32:24] Speaker 1: So when it says all the towns, when it says
[3:32:27] Speaker 1: the towns of the hill country, those aren't actual towns. Well, Kirk,
[3:32:36] Speaker 1: I want to invite you to listen to this conversation
[3:32:39] Speaker 1: back after we terminate this conversation and ask yourself if
[3:32:45] Speaker 1: you're dealing with this text honestly or if you're turning
[3:32:48] Speaker 1: yourself into a pretzel because you just have to fit
[3:32:51] Speaker 1: Jesus into this somehow. This is a very clear prophecy
[3:32:56] Speaker 1: about the actual city's physical location is being restored when
[3:33:01] Speaker 1: the Messiah comes. It says in the Shuffala of the
[3:33:04] Speaker 1: negative that's the desert region. The land of Benjamin, that's
[3:33:08] Speaker 1: an actual land. The places around Jerusalem, those are actual places.
[3:33:13] Speaker 1: The towns of Judah, those are actual towns. Why would
[3:33:17] Speaker 1: I go into this text and say none of these
[3:33:20] Speaker 1: physical locations actually mean physical locations. Why would I do that?
[3:33:26] Speaker 2: Well, like I said, there is there are physical boundaries
[3:33:33] Speaker 2: to where the where Benjamin settled and so on and
[3:33:36] Speaker 2: so forth. I was saying that, But when you're talking
[3:33:40] Speaker 2: about the application of the text. I mean, I take
[3:33:44] Speaker 2: it to be interpreted differently than what you're saying, which
[3:33:48] Speaker 2: is a literal interpretation. It's actually what the pharisees that
[3:33:53] Speaker 2: doesn't answer my question.
[3:33:54] Speaker 1: My question is why would I look at those regions
[3:33:58] Speaker 1: and places listed and think that there's something other than
[3:34:02] Speaker 1: regions and places. Why would I do that?
[3:34:08] Speaker 2: I mean, ultimately, I.
[3:34:22] Speaker 1: The only motivation you have to go into Jeremiah thirty
[3:34:26] Speaker 1: three and say none of these towns are actual towns
[3:34:29] Speaker 1: is that you can't let go of your Jesus missiety.
[3:34:32] Speaker 1: You can't let go of it. If you're being honest
[3:34:35] Speaker 1: with the text, you would just say these are actual
[3:34:38] Speaker 1: physical towns, and this is not the only time that
[3:34:41] Speaker 1: shows up. In fact, we find the same thing in
[3:34:43] Speaker 1: Ezekiel thirty six. In Ezekiel thirty six, if you go
[3:34:47] Speaker 1: down to verse like twenty seven to twenty eight, he says,
[3:34:50] Speaker 1: I will put my spirit within you and make you
[3:34:52] Speaker 1: follow my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances.
[3:34:55] Speaker 1: Then you shall live in the land that I gave
[3:34:57] Speaker 1: to your ancestors, and you and your p I'm sorry,
[3:35:01] Speaker 1: you should be my people, and I will be your God.
[3:35:03] Speaker 1: So that's a physical land, the land that he gave
[3:35:06] Speaker 1: to the ancestors of a physical land.
[3:35:09] Speaker 2: Right, But Jesus called himself the good Shepherd. So the
[3:35:12] Speaker 2: reason why I because you're saying again, you're saying, interpret
[3:35:15] Speaker 2: this with the Holy Spirit. I'm interpreting in with the
[3:35:18] Speaker 2: Holy Spirit.
[3:35:19] Speaker 1: So Kirk, I was being facetious. I don't believe the
[3:35:22] Speaker 1: Holy Spirit is real.
[3:35:25] Speaker 2: I know. I know you don't, and it's okay. But
[3:35:28] Speaker 2: what I'm saying is that that we we have to
[3:35:33] Speaker 2: look at who I don't know, Benjamin, but Judah specifically,
[3:35:39] Speaker 2: and who Judah was, and why that name is being
[3:35:44] Speaker 2: specifically used, and why Jesus was referred.
[3:35:46] Speaker 1: To as the line of Judah. I believe that ties
[3:35:49] Speaker 1: back here. Think of your Old Testament history. You know
[3:35:52] Speaker 1: why Benjamin was mentioned. Just give it a half a
[3:35:55] Speaker 1: second of thought. What happened after the Assyrian invasion.
[3:36:00] Speaker 16: And remember your history the Assyrian yep, the ten Northern
[3:36:09] Speaker 16: tribes were wiped out.
[3:36:10] Speaker 1: The only tribes that were left for Judah and Benjamin
[3:36:13] Speaker 1: because those were God's chosen people. God was upset with
[3:36:16] Speaker 1: the Northern tribes, but he was able to look past
[3:36:19] Speaker 1: the sins of the tribe of Judah and Benjamin, and
[3:36:22] Speaker 1: then Judah and Benjamin essentially assimilated into the same tribe.
[3:36:27] Speaker 2: I understand that, but that that's actually that's actually good.
[3:36:33] Speaker 2: But all I'm doing is I'm just interpreting in the
[3:36:37] Speaker 2: text like you told me to and so thus says
[3:36:41] Speaker 2: the Lord of the Holy told you to lie. Well,
[3:36:45] Speaker 2: it's not a lie. I'm just telling you how the
[3:36:48] Speaker 2: text should be taken. And I mean, is this quoted
[3:36:54] Speaker 2: from somewhere else though? Is this referred to in a
[3:36:57] Speaker 2: different place in scripture?
[3:36:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, it shows up Jeremiah twenty three and Jeremiah thirty
[3:37:03] Speaker 1: as well. In fact, Jeremiah thirty one is a really
[3:37:06] Speaker 1: interesting case where I'm going to show you something in
[3:37:10] Speaker 1: Jeremiah thirty one.
[3:37:10] Speaker 2: You want to read this real quick. So Jeed is
[3:37:16] Speaker 2: is Jeremiah quoting himself?
[3:37:18] Speaker 1: No, the Jeremiah is giving a prophecy.
[3:37:25] Speaker 2: Okay, So that says the Lord. Okay, So that's just
[3:37:28] Speaker 2: how they just stick that.
[3:37:31] Speaker 1: Go back two chapters to thirty one fifteen for me.
[3:37:37] Speaker 2: Okay, thirty one fifteen, you'll.
[3:37:40] Speaker 1: Probably recognize this. It says, thus say at the Lord.
[3:37:43] Speaker 1: A voice is heard in rama, lamentation and bitter weeping.
[3:37:47] Speaker 1: Rachel is weeping for her children. She refuses to be
[3:37:50] Speaker 1: comforted for her children because they are no more. Thus,
[3:37:53] Speaker 1: say at the Lord, keep your voice from weeping and
[3:37:55] Speaker 1: your eyes from tears. For there is a reward for
[3:37:57] Speaker 1: your work, says the Lord. They shall come back from
[3:38:00] Speaker 1: land of the enemy. There is hope for your future,
[3:38:02] Speaker 1: says the Lord. Your children shall come back to their
[3:38:05] Speaker 1: own country. So just on like a basic face, you know,
[3:38:10] Speaker 1: on the face of it, what's these three verses talking about?
[3:38:13] Speaker 2: Do you know?
[3:38:16] Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I gotta what were they fifteen, sixteen and seventeen?
[3:38:33] Speaker 1: M I do you know what Jeremiah was writing about?
[3:38:38] Speaker 2: There is hope in your future, says the lawyer, that
[3:38:40] Speaker 2: your children shall come back to their own border. I've
[3:38:43] Speaker 2: surely heard of from bemoaning himself, the Lord, my God.
[3:38:56] Speaker 1: Think a little bit about what Jeremiah what time period
[3:38:58] Speaker 1: he lived in Rodin. Right, he's writing this as he's
[3:39:02] Speaker 1: watching his Israelite brethren be carried off into captivity by
[3:39:06] Speaker 1: the Babylonians, right, Okay. And he said already in chapter
[3:39:11] Speaker 1: twenty five that they're going to go a way into
[3:39:13] Speaker 1: captivity for seventy years, and then they're going to come back, right, yeah, okay,
[3:39:18] Speaker 1: So when we get to chapter thirty one, he's clearly
[3:39:21] Speaker 1: suggesting like, hey, these women, you know, crying for their
[3:39:26] Speaker 1: children being carried off, It's okay, they're going to come
[3:39:29] Speaker 1: back from the land of the enemy.
[3:39:30] Speaker 2: Right.
[3:39:31] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[3:39:32] Speaker 1: It seems to fit the context of Jeremiah pretty well,
[3:39:36] Speaker 1: and it seems to fit everything.
[3:39:37] Speaker 2: It was like, we're actually late on it.
[3:39:41] Speaker 1: Yes, Actually you and I agree on one thing. And
[3:39:45] Speaker 1: Daniel chapter nine, he's making the case that the period
[3:39:50] Speaker 1: of seventy years gets turned into period of four hundred
[3:39:52] Speaker 1: and ninety years. But that's another prophecy. So if you
[3:39:55] Speaker 1: go to Matthew two though, and go to I think
[3:40:00] Speaker 1: verse eighteen, if I remember correctly.
[3:40:01] Speaker 2: Do you think people well, just on that fact, do
[3:40:05] Speaker 2: you think that people were highly learned and intelligent and
[3:40:11] Speaker 2: writing and understanding during the time that Jesus was supposed
[3:40:15] Speaker 2: to be alive? Yeah, I mean people are just a majority.
[3:40:18] Speaker 1: People were doing like high level math already.
[3:40:23] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, just in humanity. I mean just like in Israel, Jerusalem, Judea,
[3:40:29] Speaker 2: that kind of region. Would you say that the majority
[3:40:33] Speaker 2: of people were learned and writing or in reading or
[3:40:36] Speaker 2: were they more or was it not the majority, I'd
[3:40:40] Speaker 2: say no.
[3:40:40] Speaker 1: So the best estimate for the entire Kingdom of Rome
[3:40:44] Speaker 1: was about seven percent literacy, and that was highly dependent
[3:40:49] Speaker 1: on your economic status. So if you were poor or
[3:40:52] Speaker 1: you're backwater, you're less likely to be.
[3:40:54] Speaker 2: Able to read.
[3:40:54] Speaker 1: But even we'll say Jewish people that were we're going
[3:40:59] Speaker 1: to call a middle class for lack of better words,
[3:41:01] Speaker 1: like they could typically like read and write, like basic
[3:41:04] Speaker 1: words like you could write your name out, you could
[3:41:08] Speaker 1: perhaps write write down some numbers, like you can get
[3:41:11] Speaker 1: through like some basic situations in life using a couple
[3:41:15] Speaker 1: written words, even if you didn't fully know how to
[3:41:18] Speaker 1: read and write.
[3:41:20] Speaker 2: I just think that's really interesting because I found the
[3:41:22] Speaker 2: same and it's that seventy times seven is the extended
[3:41:29] Speaker 2: period of.
[3:41:33] Speaker 15: Of the.
[3:41:36] Speaker 2: The enslavement. So for me, it's really hard to say.
[3:41:41] Speaker 1: That I love the four hundred and ninety year talking point.
[3:41:45] Speaker 1: But we've got to finish Jeremiah thirty one and then
[3:41:47] Speaker 1: we'll go to Daniel Jeveran nine. So in Matthew chapter two,
[3:41:51] Speaker 1: verse seventeen and eighteen, it says when the children were killed,
[3:41:56] Speaker 1: when Herod had the children killed in and around Bethlehem,
[3:41:59] Speaker 1: says then what had been spoken through the prophet Jeremiah
[3:42:02] Speaker 1: was fulfilled. The voice was heard in Rama wailing in
[3:42:05] Speaker 1: loud lamentation, Rachel weeping for her children. She refused to
[3:42:08] Speaker 1: be consoled because they are no more so. Matthew is
[3:42:11] Speaker 1: suggesting that when the babies are executed by Herod, that
[3:42:16] Speaker 1: this was the fulfillment of Jeremiah thirty one fifteen. But
[3:42:19] Speaker 1: we just read Jeremiah thirty one fifteen and it clearly
[3:42:21] Speaker 1: wasn't about a bunch of babies getting slaughtered during the
[3:42:24] Speaker 1: time of Herod. It could be, though it couldn't, but
[3:42:33] Speaker 1: it could just not because it says your children are
[3:42:36] Speaker 1: going to come back from the land of the enemy.
[3:42:39] Speaker 1: Do you think those dead babies are coming back?
[3:42:49] Speaker 2: I believe, yeah, I mean I believe that they will
[3:42:52] Speaker 2: be resurrected or in heaven or however that's gonna work.
[3:42:56] Speaker 2: I don't know the technicalities. I'm not really into beat
[3:42:58] Speaker 2: baby theology like some people may be. But of course, yeah,
[3:43:04] Speaker 2: I mean, they'll they'll, they will't their their existence will
[3:43:08] Speaker 2: not go in vain. I truly believe that there will
[3:43:12] Speaker 2: be a resurrection.
[3:43:14] Speaker 1: Why would I possibly interpret it as that when the
[3:43:18] Speaker 1: text is so clearly about what's happening to the Israelites
[3:43:22] Speaker 1: by the Babylonians. Why in the world would I jump
[3:43:25] Speaker 1: to the illogical conclusion that it's actually secretly about a
[3:43:29] Speaker 1: bunch of babies that are going to get slaughtered by Herod.
[3:43:33] Speaker 2: H Well, why was Jesus' first miracle turning water to wine?
[3:43:39] Speaker 1: Think he did.
[3:43:42] Speaker 2: Right? So, but why would people write that? Because it
[3:43:45] Speaker 2: was not a selling point for anything that Homer wrote
[3:43:50] Speaker 2: or any other poet or.
[3:43:58] Speaker 1: So.
[3:43:58] Speaker 2: I'm not familiar with that. But the turning the water
[3:44:02] Speaker 2: to wine being such a almost like a party trick,
[3:44:08] Speaker 2: was not a I'll say, it wasn't a popular theme.
[3:44:11] Speaker 2: Somebody may have written something similar.
[3:44:14] Speaker 1: Super popular Greek writings.
[3:44:20] Speaker 2: So which one are you referring to?
[3:44:23] Speaker 1: So the one that comes to mind is Dionysis. But
[3:44:26] Speaker 1: a guy named Derek Buddy Mine from myth Vision did
[3:44:29] Speaker 1: a video on this some quite some time ago about
[3:44:31] Speaker 1: how water into wine is a pretty popular trope in
[3:44:35] Speaker 1: the Greco Roman world. But I don't want to deviate
[3:44:38] Speaker 1: from Jeremiah thirty one. I'm sorry, I'm so trying to
[3:44:42] Speaker 1: figure out why why would I interpret Jeremiah thirty one
[3:44:46] Speaker 1: as being about the children in Bethlehem.
[3:44:50] Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is what I'm saying, is that the
[3:44:54] Speaker 2: the for it to be like a I guess the
[3:45:00] Speaker 2: the closest thing you could compare it to is the
[3:45:03] Speaker 2: Herculean kind of novel in the Greek side, where it's
[3:45:08] Speaker 2: like somebody realizes their divine nature or something like that. Right,
[3:45:13] Speaker 2: that's kind of the only thing you could compare Jesus
[3:45:16] Speaker 2: to in that regard. And so for it to be
[3:45:19] Speaker 2: the first feat of strength or the first miracle to
[3:45:22] Speaker 2: be watered a wine is a trope, and it wasn't
[3:45:26] Speaker 2: popular to do that at the time, That's all I'm saying.
[3:45:29] Speaker 2: So if that's the case, then we can see that
[3:45:33] Speaker 2: the prophecies should not align with the rigidity of what
[3:45:39] Speaker 2: you're interpreting.
[3:45:41] Speaker 1: They should because they need they tell you how to interpret.
[3:45:43] Speaker 1: He words just have meanings. The same passage, just read
[3:45:47] Speaker 1: back a couple of sentences. The Lord has ransomed Jacob.
[3:45:50] Speaker 1: He has redeemed him from the hands too strong for him.
[3:45:53] Speaker 1: They shall come and sing aloud on the heights of Zion.
[3:45:56] Speaker 1: They shall be radiant over the goodness of the Lord,
[3:45:58] Speaker 1: over the grain, over the wine, the oil, and over
[3:46:01] Speaker 1: the young of the flock. And the herd, and their
[3:46:04] Speaker 1: life shall become like a watered garden. They shall never
[3:46:07] Speaker 1: languish again. Like this is talking about the restoration of
[3:46:11] Speaker 1: the Israelites, when they when God brings them back. The
[3:46:14] Speaker 1: whole chapter everything in chapter thirty one from the Babylonian Exile.
[3:46:20] Speaker 1: Chapter thirty one literally opens with at that time says
[3:46:23] Speaker 1: the Lord, I will be the god of all the
[3:46:24] Speaker 1: families of Israel. They will be my people. Thus at
[3:46:26] Speaker 1: the Lord to people who survived the sword, found grace
[3:46:29] Speaker 1: in the wilderness. When Israel sought for rest, the Lord appeared,
[3:46:32] Speaker 1: so on and so forth. Then he says again I
[3:46:35] Speaker 1: will build you, and you shall be built, o Virgin Israel. Again.
[3:46:38] Speaker 1: You shall adorn yourself with tambourines, and go forth, and
[3:46:41] Speaker 1: talks about the restoration after the exile, sing aloud with
[3:46:45] Speaker 1: gladness for Jacob, and raise shouts for the Chief of
[3:46:48] Speaker 1: the nations, proclaim and give praise, and say, save, oh Lord,
[3:46:52] Speaker 1: your people. The remnant of Israel. The remnant of Israel
[3:46:55] Speaker 1: are the people who get to come back from captivity.
[3:47:00] Speaker 1: That's why he says in verse eight, See, I'm going
[3:47:02] Speaker 1: to bring them from the land of the North and
[3:47:05] Speaker 1: gather them from the furthest parts of the earth. This
[3:47:08] Speaker 1: entire chapter is about God bringing his people back from
[3:47:11] Speaker 1: the Babylonian captivity. If you care about the context of
[3:47:15] Speaker 1: the prophecy, the prophecy has nothing to do with a
[3:47:18] Speaker 1: bunch of babies getting murdered six hundred years later.
[3:47:23] Speaker 2: Okay, but that's what I was saying earlier, is there's
[3:47:26] Speaker 2: a unary theological definition and then it can be applied
[3:47:33] Speaker 2: elsewhere to Why.
[3:47:35] Speaker 1: Would I think that's if I'm reading a prophecy, and
[3:47:41] Speaker 1: the prophecy has a clear context and a clear prediction
[3:47:44] Speaker 1: and a clear meaning, why would I go into that
[3:47:46] Speaker 1: prophecy and say, well, it actually means something completely different,
[3:47:51] Speaker 1: And who gets to decide what the completely different meaning
[3:47:53] Speaker 1: of it is? Can I decide? Can I just say
[3:47:55] Speaker 1: it's actually about me?
[3:47:58] Speaker 2: I mean you could, but right, I mean that means
[3:48:00] Speaker 2: that you have to follow through.
[3:48:02] Speaker 1: I'd be using the same hermeneutic as a New Testament.
[3:48:07] Speaker 2: Well, not necessarily, because there was a large I mean,
[3:48:11] Speaker 2: those manuscripts went through years of filtering, a lot of discussion.
[3:48:16] Speaker 1: So not high level.
[3:48:18] Speaker 2: I can tell you that do you believe that Jesus
[3:48:22] Speaker 2: was just created by somebody.
[3:48:25] Speaker 1: No, I told you. I think Jesus was a real person,
[3:48:26] Speaker 1: but I believe most of what we know about a
[3:48:28] Speaker 1: mythology was a real person. I believe Paul was a
[3:48:31] Speaker 1: real person. I think what we know about him is
[3:48:33] Speaker 1: mythological too.
[3:48:36] Speaker 2: Like what, oh, the miracles and stuff?
[3:48:38] Speaker 1: The miracles, the nonsense about getting papers from the Sanhedron
[3:48:42] Speaker 1: to go round up Christians. I don't believe any of
[3:48:45] Speaker 1: that happened. I read the writings of the Sanhedrin. I've
[3:48:48] Speaker 1: never seen a single text in like the what one
[3:48:53] Speaker 1: hundred and ten chapters in the writing of the Sanhedron
[3:48:57] Speaker 1: that talk about giving papers to anyone to go around
[3:49:00] Speaker 1: up Christians. They talk about killing Christians, talk about killing Jesus,
[3:49:03] Speaker 1: talk about all kinds of stuff, talk about brother James.
[3:49:06] Speaker 1: Didn't say a damn word about sending emissaries out to
[3:49:10] Speaker 1: go round them up. In fact, it says the opposite,
[3:49:13] Speaker 1: So it says they sent people out to to They
[3:49:19] Speaker 1: sent people out for forty days ahead of time to
[3:49:22] Speaker 1: round up evidence that could clear them from guilt.
[3:49:27] Speaker 2: So I really like the New Testament, and the reason
[3:49:30] Speaker 2: why is because that's actually what we're dealing with. If
[3:49:36] Speaker 2: we're trying to dispute things that are written in the
[3:49:39] Speaker 2: New Testament by using interpreting the Old Testament. Well, obviously
[3:49:45] Speaker 2: during that time there was separate interpretations of the Old
[3:49:50] Speaker 2: Testament when it was happening. And so, but if a
[3:49:55] Speaker 2: writer determines to use something, I think it's it's like
[3:49:59] Speaker 2: a book or a highlight to highlight to something else.
[3:50:04] Speaker 2: Just like it's It's been done many many other times
[3:50:06] Speaker 2: in the scriptures. And so I think to disregard that,
[3:50:10] Speaker 2: I think is intellectually dishonest.
[3:50:12] Speaker 1: I think it's intellectually dishonest to read these prophesies and
[3:50:15] Speaker 1: say on every occasion that the words don't have any
[3:50:18] Speaker 1: inherent meaning. We should ignore what they actually say and
[3:50:21] Speaker 1: apply different meanings to these words that just happen to
[3:50:24] Speaker 1: fit my agenda. I think that's the height of dishonesty.
[3:50:27] Speaker 1: And then to look at me and think that I'm
[3:50:29] Speaker 1: being dishonest is wild. That's a wild coach.
[3:50:33] Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, I am not. I don't think
[3:50:36] Speaker 2: that you're being a dishonest person. I think that not
[3:50:40] Speaker 2: being open to the New Testament and to the cross
[3:50:45] Speaker 2: referencing that it does.
[3:50:46] Speaker 1: I don't care about the cross referencing. No, the cross
[3:50:49] Speaker 1: reference doesn't mean anything if I cross reference, if I
[3:50:52] Speaker 1: write a whole book, I write the Book of Mormon,
[3:50:55] Speaker 1: and I say, look at all these cross references the
[3:50:57] Speaker 1: Old Testament, it must be true. You're going to say, no,
[3:50:58] Speaker 1: let just make it true. I do the same argument
[3:51:01] Speaker 1: for you, the same reason why you reject a Book
[3:51:03] Speaker 1: of Mormon, I reject a New Testament.
[3:51:06] Speaker 2: Okay, I mean it's not I don't necessarily think it's
[3:51:11] Speaker 2: a bad thing, because you are being honest to yourself.
[3:51:15] Speaker 2: But I will say that you're throwing away the truth
[3:51:21] Speaker 2: of man.
[3:51:22] Speaker 1: I mean it's you have not demonstrated to be true whatsoever.
[3:51:26] Speaker 2: Well.
[3:51:27] Speaker 1: Well, in fact, during this conversation, I think we've demonstrated
[3:51:30] Speaker 1: pretty clearly that it's not true.
[3:51:32] Speaker 2: It's just a cope for a dead Messiah. Sure, so
[3:51:36] Speaker 2: find his body. Find Jesus' body.
[3:51:38] Speaker 1: Second of all, find find anybody's body from the ancient
[3:51:42] Speaker 1: world that was thrown into a mass grave. Why would
[3:51:46] Speaker 1: you expect that anyone had access to it?
[3:51:50] Speaker 2: Okay, So, I mean it's just that at that point,
[3:51:56] Speaker 2: you are being intellectually dishonest.
[3:51:58] Speaker 1: When no, I'm not being inellectually I mean you are.
[3:52:01] Speaker 1: You're saying words don't mean words.
[3:52:05] Speaker 2: Okay, you talking to me about Judaic history is like
[3:52:09] Speaker 2: an mma fighter fighting a baby. I just you're right,
[3:52:12] Speaker 2: like you know more than me. But just because you
[3:52:16] Speaker 2: know more does not dictate that you're right. And so
[3:52:20] Speaker 2: I'm not saying that to attack you or anything like that.
[3:52:25] Speaker 2: I just want you to be open to the fact
[3:52:28] Speaker 2: that you could possibly be wrong, because in atheism there's
[3:52:31] Speaker 2: always the escape patch up.
[3:52:32] Speaker 1: I could be wrong, that's true and everything. Do you
[3:52:35] Speaker 1: know that you could be wrong?
[3:52:38] Speaker 2: I could be wrong. Yeah.
[3:52:40] Speaker 1: So I was a Christian for twenty years and I
[3:52:42] Speaker 1: discovered that I was wrong, which is why I'm not
[3:52:44] Speaker 1: a Christian. So when you actually study the book, it
[3:52:48] Speaker 1: can't hold up the scrutiny. It doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
[3:52:53] Speaker 2: Sure, did you ever meet the Holy Spirit?
[3:52:57] Speaker 1: Though? I didn't meet the Holy Spirit, and neither you.
[3:53:00] Speaker 1: You only think you met the Holy Spirit, just like
[3:53:02] Speaker 1: I thought I met the Holy Spirit. So, no, you
[3:53:05] Speaker 1: didn't meet the Holy Spirit.
[3:53:07] Speaker 2: No you don't.
[3:53:09] Speaker 1: You know a delusion. You think you know the Holy Spirit.
[3:53:13] Speaker 2: Okay, if it's just all a delusion, then we could
[3:53:17] Speaker 2: say that you are under a delusion, a strong delusion
[3:53:21] Speaker 2: as well. And not able to read.
[3:53:25] Speaker 1: Well, you haven't been able to demonstrate that yet. Your
[3:53:27] Speaker 1: old argument so far through everything we've read is words
[3:53:30] Speaker 1: don't mean words. And I am sorry. I don't think
[3:53:33] Speaker 1: that's an honest way to read any text, to go
[3:53:36] Speaker 1: into it and say, well, as long as I change
[3:53:37] Speaker 1: the meaning of all these words, then it can mean
[3:53:40] Speaker 1: what I wanted to meet.
[3:53:44] Speaker 2: Well, there are literal like I said, there's a literal
[3:53:49] Speaker 2: theological definition, and then there's the messianic application. I disagree.
[3:53:55] Speaker 1: I disagree. You have yet to give me a single
[3:53:58] Speaker 1: reason why I would accept a second and dairy interpretation
[3:54:01] Speaker 1: that is divorced from the original context. I've asked you
[3:54:04] Speaker 1: ten times. You haven't given me a single one yet.
[3:54:07] Speaker 1: Do you have even a single reason why I should
[3:54:10] Speaker 1: apply a second meaning to these prophecies that are divorced
[3:54:13] Speaker 1: from the original context other than the New Testament?
[3:54:24] Speaker 2: Says so, okay, I mean it's at that point I
[3:54:30] Speaker 2: can't because.
[3:54:31] Speaker 1: I know you can't exactly. You're reading the Old Testament
[3:54:35] Speaker 1: through the lens of the New Testament, and that's not
[3:54:38] Speaker 1: the appropriate way to do hermeneutics. You take the Old
[3:54:40] Speaker 1: Testament based on the context and the history of what's
[3:54:43] Speaker 1: happening at the time when it was written, who it
[3:54:45] Speaker 1: was written to, and what do you think the author intended.
[3:54:47] Speaker 1: What you don't do is force your interpretation onto the
[3:54:50] Speaker 1: text based on somebody who lived many hundreds of years later.
[3:54:55] Speaker 2: You're right, and there are things that I'm wrong about,
[3:54:58] Speaker 2: and there are things that I'm right about. And I
[3:55:02] Speaker 2: understand that you're well learned and that you studied a lot.
[3:55:07] Speaker 2: And at this point, because like I said, the it
[3:55:11] Speaker 2: really I think comes down to the genealogical argument, which
[3:55:15] Speaker 2: I'm told not to buy Paul, and I'm going to
[3:55:18] Speaker 2: take his advice as as good advice that we shouldn't
[3:55:21] Speaker 2: argue about genealogies.
[3:55:22] Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think you should at the end of
[3:55:24] Speaker 1: the day.
[3:55:26] Speaker 2: Yeah, at the end of the day. Yeah, Like if
[3:55:29] Speaker 2: you want to consider that you beat me, you beat.
[3:55:32] Speaker 1: Me, well, you know, I don't consider it a victory.
[3:55:37] Speaker 1: Like we're just here having a debate. You know, no
[3:55:41] Speaker 1: one wins in these debates.
[3:55:44] Speaker 2: Seen things, I've seen things that convince me that and
[3:55:49] Speaker 2: I didn't even need to know those things. I just
[3:55:52] Speaker 2: had faith and through that I've seen things that just
[3:55:58] Speaker 2: prove to me that that it's true and those are
[3:56:02] Speaker 2: the most blessed people. So I'd call you back, I'd say,
[3:56:07] Speaker 2: you know, to really open open yourself up to the
[3:56:13] Speaker 2: New Testament, don't.
[3:56:14] Speaker 1: It's wild why that you like you just have to
[3:56:17] Speaker 1: assume that I'm not open to like new information. Like
[3:56:20] Speaker 1: so I say this a lot to Christians and it
[3:56:22] Speaker 1: never gets old. But your belief system causes you to
[3:56:26] Speaker 1: think that somehow something's deficient with me. I'm either not
[3:56:29] Speaker 1: studying it, right, I'm not sincere, I'm closed off to
[3:56:33] Speaker 1: something in your worldview. You can't you can't believe that
[3:56:38] Speaker 1: I legitimately studied this book as a professional and just
[3:56:42] Speaker 1: wasn't convinced by it.
[3:56:44] Speaker 2: No, I totally believe that you are genuine. I think
[3:56:49] Speaker 2: you're a genuine skeptic of the New Testament, and I understand.
[3:56:55] Speaker 2: I've also seen the podcast with the guy who's quite
[3:56:58] Speaker 2: you know, in my opinion, seems off as rocker but
[3:57:01] Speaker 2: the Greek yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's interesting to talk to.
[3:57:12] Speaker 2: I actually don't mind talking to atheists, so it's like
[3:57:15] Speaker 2: I actually spend a lot of time talking but with
[3:57:18] Speaker 2: him in New York and stuff. But at the end
[3:57:21] Speaker 2: of the day, man, I yes, there if you if
[3:57:26] Speaker 2: you interpret the Old Testament, if you read the Old
[3:57:29] Speaker 2: Testament and you interpret it plainly, you're going to see
[3:57:33] Speaker 2: historical things that match up to that. And that's totally valid,
[3:57:38] Speaker 2: and that's the theological that that is the unary theological definition. However,
[3:57:43] Speaker 2: if it's applied in some way externally to Messianic prophecy,
[3:57:51] Speaker 2: I'd encourage you to not throw everything away because of that,
[3:57:55] Speaker 2: because because the Jews interpreted.
[3:58:00] Speaker 1: Thing, not even one prophecy. We just spent last hour
[3:58:02] Speaker 1: talking about it. Okay, if he was so clearly the Messiah,
[3:58:06] Speaker 1: you could have took me to all these very clear
[3:58:08] Speaker 1: passages that he fulfilled, and he just didn't. And like
[3:58:14] Speaker 1: the prophecies they point to, half of them are even prophecies,
[3:58:17] Speaker 1: Like when it says that he went into Egypt and
[3:58:20] Speaker 1: his parents took him into Egypt until the death of Heroda,
[3:58:22] Speaker 1: then took him out to fulfill what was written by
[3:58:24] Speaker 1: the prophet I've called my son. It's not even a prophecy.
[3:58:27] Speaker 1: Hoseiah eleven, verses one and two is a recounting of
[3:58:31] Speaker 1: the Exodus narrative. It's not a prophecy about anything. Matthew's
[3:58:35] Speaker 1: lying to you.
[3:58:37] Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, all right, on one thing about I understand
[3:58:45] Speaker 2: now it's kind of we kind of went through the
[3:58:48] Speaker 2: whole house and now at the back door. But like
[3:58:52] Speaker 2: I understand now that what's going on.
[3:58:56] Speaker 1: But uh.
[3:59:00] Speaker 2: I, I don't believe the New Testament is a lie.
[3:59:04] Speaker 2: I believe it's accurate, and I believe there's certainly not
[3:59:08] Speaker 2: accurable proof surrounding it, not even close.
[3:59:10] Speaker 1: You haven't brought a single proof yet.
[3:59:14] Speaker 2: Well, Isaiah fifty two.
[3:59:17] Speaker 1: Is about the nation of Israel.
[3:59:18] Speaker 2: Fifty three.
[3:59:20] Speaker 1: The prophet tells you on eight different occasions who the
[3:59:22] Speaker 1: servant is, and it's the nation of Israel.
[3:59:26] Speaker 2: Okay, are do you believe that God exists? It's just
[3:59:30] Speaker 2: not what we believe. Or do you believe that there's
[3:59:33] Speaker 2: no God? And I'm just curious where you're at with that.
[3:59:36] Speaker 1: No, I don't believe in any guns. Okay, listen, Kirk,
[3:59:42] Speaker 1: if we had a good time talking. It's been it's
[3:59:45] Speaker 1: been a while, but thanks for.
[3:59:47] Speaker 2: Hanging out with me so long. But yeah, no problem.
[3:59:50] Speaker 2: I appreciate. I mean, you got you. You showed me
[3:59:54] Speaker 2: a lot of things that I need to go read over,
[3:59:56] Speaker 2: and you're right, you know, but I will say this
[3:59:59] Speaker 2: that I know for an absolute fact that Jesus existed,
[4:00:04] Speaker 2: that he is a real person. I know him personally.
[4:00:06] Speaker 1: I know for a fact that you're delusional. Okay, I've
[4:00:11] Speaker 1: a Hindu friend that knows for a fact that his
[4:00:13] Speaker 1: God exists because he met them. See, these are these
[4:00:17] Speaker 1: are called periods of psychosis. One hundred people a year demons.
[4:00:22] Speaker 1: One hundred people a year are hospitalized in Jerusalem with
[4:00:25] Speaker 1: Jerusalem syndrome, where they're overcome with religion and conviction and
[4:00:30] Speaker 1: feel like they're having spiritual experiences that make them the
[4:00:34] Speaker 1: Messiah's spiritual phenomenon. Happens to a lot of people.
[4:00:39] Speaker 2: Well that's what happens when you reject them the Siah.
[4:00:41] Speaker 2: It's called a curse.
[4:00:42] Speaker 1: But well they would my hindufraid wouldn't say the same
[4:00:46] Speaker 1: thing about your God. Your God's just a gin.
[4:00:50] Speaker 2: Sure, And so if if they they live in a
[4:00:55] Speaker 2: culture where they were introduced to a demon, and that's
[4:01:01] Speaker 2: it's very it's very common. But I know you won't
[4:01:04] Speaker 2: accept that. But just because you don't accept it doesn't
[4:01:07] Speaker 2: mean it's not objectively true.
[4:01:09] Speaker 1: But they would say that it's objectively true that your
[4:01:11] Speaker 1: God is fake, it's just a gin, and that the
[4:01:13] Speaker 1: Hindu gods are real. Sure, and at that point it's
[4:01:18] Speaker 1: not objectively true, just your opinion.
[4:01:22] Speaker 2: Sure, well, I have seen things that prove to me
[4:01:27] Speaker 2: that the name of Jesus has powers listen.
[4:01:29] Speaker 1: So I'd love to agree with you, but then we'd
[4:01:31] Speaker 1: both be wrong.
[4:01:35] Speaker 2: Well, I've seen it, and I know for a fact,
[4:01:41] Speaker 2: and I won't I won't get into it. But it's
[4:01:43] Speaker 2: just it's okay. But thanks, man. I appreciate talking with you.
[4:01:47] Speaker 2: I enjoy how you have it. Just open. I'm sorry.
[4:01:49] Speaker 2: I kind of sucked up all the time I'm here
[4:01:51] Speaker 2: in the Philippines, so I kind of have a you know,
[4:01:57] Speaker 2: extra extra time I'm here during the day. But anyways,
[4:02:02] Speaker 2: m yeah, man, it was it was nice speaking with you.
[4:02:06] Speaker 2: I wish the best of you and Kirk.
[4:02:08] Speaker 1: Take care of yourself. Do me a favor and eat
[4:02:11] Speaker 1: some mango float for me. I can't get it over here.
[4:02:14] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, a mango float.
[4:02:16] Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, it's good stuff. All right, man, have a
[4:02:19] Speaker 1: good one.
[4:02:20] Speaker 2: Take care.
[4:02:21] Speaker 1: If you guys don't know what mango float is, holy shit,
[4:02:24] Speaker 1: is one of the best desserts here ever. Gonna put
[4:02:26] Speaker 1: in your pie hole. It's amazing, all right. Let me
[4:02:30] Speaker 1: grab some super chats, guys. I'm so sorry you guys
[4:02:33] Speaker 1: know when I get these long conversations, I get backed
[4:02:36] Speaker 1: up on super chats. But he sounded like we were
[4:02:40] Speaker 1: gonna have some room to do some good talking. Hugh persons,
[4:02:45] Speaker 1: Doug is the bedrock that keeps us safe from the
[4:02:48] Speaker 1: hot magma that would destroy us all. Actually one hundred percent.
[4:02:52] Speaker 1: The dog always abides and always keeps you safe and cranky.
[4:02:55] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the six sixty six. Hail
[4:02:57] Speaker 1: Nero says, Lol, I'm still mad about you cook me.
[4:03:00] Speaker 1: But to make sure you know how mad I am,
[4:03:02] Speaker 1: I'm going to give you money because you know I'm mad. Yeah, yeah,
[4:03:07] Speaker 1: referring to shit, what was that guy's name that super
[4:03:10] Speaker 1: chatted that message earlier? I already forgot Doug, meeps, Meek?
[4:03:16] Speaker 1: Is it Meek or MEPs? I forget.
[4:03:18] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[4:03:18] Speaker 1: I Doug came up and crashed out hard, like super
[4:03:23] Speaker 1: hard twice, and then he never came back. It was
[4:03:26] Speaker 1: before I was streaming to YouTube, so it's not saved
[4:03:28] Speaker 1: it anywhere. I don't have a backup of it. But
[4:03:31] Speaker 1: Doug came up and crashed out really hard back when
[4:03:33] Speaker 1: I first started streaming and el Karaki. Thank you so
[4:03:37] Speaker 1: much for the twenty hours super chat.
[4:03:38] Speaker 2: Big W.
[4:03:39] Speaker 1: I appreciate that, he says, my wife was raised in
[4:03:41] Speaker 1: the church and I was there Reformed. I was there
[4:03:45] Speaker 1: Reformed Baptist Church for ten years and we have officially left.
[4:03:48] Speaker 1: I really appreciate you justin you have really helped out
[4:03:52] Speaker 1: and now I'm grateful I'm not raising my four girls
[4:03:54] Speaker 1: in it. Well, holy shit, congratulations on getting out of
[4:03:58] Speaker 1: the cult, big W. Oh kakei and thank you for
[4:04:01] Speaker 1: the support. And I'm glad that you're not passing the
[4:04:03] Speaker 1: cult on to your children and perpetuating the cycle of
[4:04:07] Speaker 1: misogyny that is in this religion. The Christian religion is.
[4:04:12] Speaker 1: If you don't find it misogynistic, you have not read
[4:04:15] Speaker 1: the book.
[4:04:16] Speaker 2: In fact, you don't even need to read the.
[4:04:17] Speaker 1: Book to see the misogyny. It's right there in most churches. Anarco,
[4:04:21] Speaker 1: thank you for the finding our Canadian chat. It says,
[4:04:23] Speaker 1: what books besides the apocrypha should have been included in
[4:04:25] Speaker 1: the canon? Are ones that you find turn Christian theology
[4:04:29] Speaker 1: on its head. Thanks good question, Anarco, And sorry you
[4:04:33] Speaker 1: might not even be in the live stream still, but
[4:04:34] Speaker 1: the answer is I think the like the standard apocrypha
[4:04:39] Speaker 1: should be included, except for Second Esdras. Second Esdras was
[4:04:42] Speaker 1: written after Jesus. It's fiction, like it's pretending to be old,
[4:04:46] Speaker 1: but it's not. Get rid of Second Esdras. But definitely
[4:04:50] Speaker 1: keep like you know, Baruk and the additions to Daniel.
[4:04:55] Speaker 1: Definitely keep the Maccabees. I don't know if you need
[4:04:57] Speaker 1: fourth Maccabees, but you definitely want to keep first and
[4:05:00] Speaker 1: second Maccabee's. I would include the Book of Enoch because
[4:05:03] Speaker 1: the New Testament quotes it is Zoe's scripture. And even
[4:05:07] Speaker 1: in like the I think it was Codex Sinatikus, they
[4:05:10] Speaker 1: included an additional epistle. It was the Shepherd uh Shepherd
[4:05:17] Speaker 1: of Hermes. And in one of the early manuscripts there
[4:05:22] Speaker 1: was another book that was included that is not part
[4:05:26] Speaker 1: of the canon.
[4:05:26] Speaker 4: What was it?
[4:05:29] Speaker 1: Shit, there was another one. I can't think of, but yeah,
[4:05:31] Speaker 1: there's a There's definitely a couple of books I would
[4:05:33] Speaker 1: include outside of the Apocrypha, but I think the main
[4:05:35] Speaker 1: one would definitely be Enoch and K thank you so
[4:05:38] Speaker 1: much for the nine to eighty nine says unfortunately work
[4:05:40] Speaker 1: called so I must go. I will be watching the
[4:05:43] Speaker 1: vod I think you mean vid later. Love wins. Well,
[4:05:45] Speaker 1: thank you so much.
[4:05:46] Speaker 2: It's just ka.
[4:05:47] Speaker 1: I agree. Love always wins and just like justice, justice
[4:05:51] Speaker 1: always wins. But it's a long arc, and there's a
[4:05:54] Speaker 1: lot of bumps along that long arc. It takes a
[4:05:57] Speaker 1: while to get to the to the goal. And Adelle,
[4:06:00] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the super chest, says Happy Friday.
[4:06:02] Speaker 1: Justin and Sarah so good to see you, Hail, Doug
[4:06:04] Speaker 1: and Sharon, well, thank you so much. And now you
[4:06:06] Speaker 1: know how backed up I am on super chats because
[4:06:09] Speaker 1: this was sent when Sarah was still up with me.
[4:06:11] Speaker 1: Holy shit, I must have like one hundred super chats waiting.
[4:06:14] Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that I got backed up. Guys, it's
[4:06:16] Speaker 1: just these long conversations do it to me. Freedom, thank
[4:06:19] Speaker 1: you so much, says just affirming my existence in exchange
[4:06:22] Speaker 1: for currency, Braise Doug. Freedom, I confirm you exist absolutely,
[4:06:27] Speaker 1: and you're a conscious, thinking being and we're glad that
[4:06:30] Speaker 1: you're here. And Flanker, good to see you tonight, says
[4:06:33] Speaker 1: dirty Jad. Joke for Justin, I'm gonna love this. He says,
[4:06:36] Speaker 1: what's the difference between a chickpea and a garbonzo bean?
[4:06:40] Speaker 1: I've never paid to have a garbonzo bean on my face.
[4:06:44] Speaker 1: Oh oh, I listen, you should. You should not have
[4:06:50] Speaker 1: chickpeas on your face. That's not the thing. That's only
[4:06:55] Speaker 1: Trump does golden showers. That's a Trump thing. And I'm
[4:06:58] Speaker 1: I'm I'm not down with that.
[4:07:00] Speaker 16: Uh.
[4:07:00] Speaker 1: Jay g says, was this guy?
[4:07:03] Speaker 2: Oh?
[4:07:04] Speaker 15: Was this?
[4:07:05] Speaker 1: Was this this guy with turetts who called in previously?
[4:07:10] Speaker 2: I don't think so.
[4:07:13] Speaker 1: I do remember the trets guy, but I don't think
[4:07:15] Speaker 1: he's been on today. But fair question. Definitely a fair
[4:07:19] Speaker 1: question his because he reminds me of the guy with turets,
[4:07:22] Speaker 1: which I actually his video the guy that had the
[4:07:25] Speaker 1: treats is posted on my main account under my channel.
[4:07:30] Speaker 1: It's only about three months old, so you should be
[4:07:33] Speaker 1: able to find it without too much a problem. But yeah,
[4:07:36] Speaker 1: it Isn't it funny? They looked alike, But I think
[4:07:38] Speaker 1: this guy was smarter. I don't think it was the
[4:07:40] Speaker 1: same guy. Rey Gatto, thank you for the six sixty
[4:07:44] Speaker 1: six is My cat seems to think that she is
[4:07:46] Speaker 1: God and we are all her subjects. Well, all cats
[4:07:49] Speaker 1: believe that my cat pie, Holy shoot, my cat pie
[4:07:52] Speaker 1: runs the place. He's in charge that's all theirs to it.
[4:07:56] Speaker 1: We're just living in the cat's world. They're in control.
[4:08:00] Speaker 1: Rock hard for Doug, good to see it, says this
[4:08:01] Speaker 1: guy is so high he needs grounded by some dug
[4:08:04] Speaker 1: and shared. And that last guy with the conspiracy theory
[4:08:10] Speaker 1: is wild and barely says, where's the comment spaceship And
[4:08:13] Speaker 1: when do I cast straight guys? We have to do
[4:08:18] Speaker 1: some episodes on cults. I know we've been saying it
[4:08:23] Speaker 1: and it's just never happened yet, But I've got to
[4:08:25] Speaker 1: start doing some episodes on like dangerous cults. The apothecary says,
[4:08:30] Speaker 1: people with these theories are possibly schizophrenic or manic. Yes, actually,
[4:08:34] Speaker 1: you're right. I think that that caller was says good
[4:08:37] Speaker 1: for clips, but let remember empathy, peeps, Let's remember it. Yeah,
[4:08:41] Speaker 1: I agree with you, and Sarah was on the same page.
[4:08:43] Speaker 1: That's why we let him go. Susie, thank you for
[4:08:47] Speaker 1: the supertest says to be rock and not roll plays Doug,
[4:08:51] Speaker 1: praise Doug and the gods of rock. Led Zeppelin, Oh,
[4:08:55] Speaker 1: absolutely w led Zeppelin. I could definitely handle some led
[4:09:00] Speaker 1: Zeppelin playing in the background of these chats, but unfortunately
[4:09:04] Speaker 1: I would get demonetized it's horrific, but Susie, thank you
[4:09:07] Speaker 1: so much for the super chat and hail led Zeppelin
[4:09:11] Speaker 1: and Carlos big w On gifting five deconstructions on memberships.
[4:09:14] Speaker 1: I really appreciate that, friend. I hope you're here to
[4:09:17] Speaker 1: see your super chat and grateful for you justin, says Kriku.
[4:09:23] Speaker 1: Oh that's a Psalm twenty two reference, Cariku is the
[4:09:29] Speaker 1: Psalm twenty two reference of the manuscript. That is incorrect.
[4:09:33] Speaker 1: It's got the wrong Hebrew word in the in the
[4:09:37] Speaker 1: in the text. Fantastic reference. Great one, and jam, thank
[4:09:43] Speaker 1: you so much for the super chest, says I remember
[4:09:45] Speaker 1: hearing Kyle's his first call to the line and appreciating
[4:09:48] Speaker 1: his kindness and honesty. We celebrated in chat when he
[4:09:52] Speaker 1: let go of his theism. Then he got sucked back in.
[4:09:55] Speaker 1: Still cheering for him. Well, that that is a thing
[4:09:58] Speaker 1: that happens, unfortunately, but it takes a little tugg of war.
[4:10:01] Speaker 1: He's in, he's out, he's in, he's out. Eventually you win, though,
[4:10:03] Speaker 1: eventually eat him. YouTube Punk says a DM of recent
[4:10:08] Speaker 1: goodwill Bible haul. Oh shit, I'd appreciate if you could
[4:10:12] Speaker 1: tell me which our keepers and which I should craft
[4:10:15] Speaker 1: into blasphemy Bible. Okay, if you sent me a DM,
[4:10:18] Speaker 1: I promise I'll get to it this weekend. And at
[4:10:21] Speaker 1: Pepiano says again on Lot's story, imagine an old creep
[4:10:25] Speaker 1: in our neighborhood making that up. When found guilty of
[4:10:29] Speaker 1: impregnating his daughters. They got me blackout, drunk yet hard twice.
[4:10:33] Speaker 1: But Lot was righteous. Yes, we've mentioned this before. It
[4:10:37] Speaker 1: says in Tecod Peter that Lot was a preacher of
[4:10:39] Speaker 1: righteousness or no, that was sorry Noah. But it says
[4:10:45] Speaker 1: that he was a righteous man living among the unrighteous.
[4:10:48] Speaker 1: But he couldn't have been if he just willy nilly
[4:10:50] Speaker 1: slept with his daughters like that and offered them up
[4:10:53] Speaker 1: to be graped.
[4:10:55] Speaker 2: Crazy.
[4:10:56] Speaker 1: And Eric says, so eight guests, Christian really mean the
[4:11:01] Speaker 1: universe looks like it was perfectly designed then ruined by humans.
[4:11:05] Speaker 1: How does that make sense? It really doesn't make sense,
[4:11:09] Speaker 1: and that is the problem. There's so much unexpected stuff
[4:11:14] Speaker 1: in the universe. Evan says, why did Jesus go to
[4:11:16] Speaker 1: the spa to get his nails done? All three of them?
[4:11:21] Speaker 1: That's a good one. And Evan again says, well, here's
[4:11:23] Speaker 1: the thing. What if every apologist. Actually, you nail that.
[4:11:26] Speaker 1: The goal of apologists is to say what if. It's
[4:11:30] Speaker 1: not to say that it's true or likely, it's to
[4:11:32] Speaker 1: say what if is possible? And just let me grab
[4:11:35] Speaker 1: two more super chats, guys says I'm the cheese. Logical
[4:11:38] Speaker 1: conclusion to the callers claim that all babies dye and
[4:11:41] Speaker 1: go to heaven is that it's preferable to unlive all
[4:11:44] Speaker 1: babies in order to save them from hell. It is
[4:11:46] Speaker 1: ultimate moral to sacrifice personal salvation for others. So you're
[4:11:49] Speaker 1: one hundred percent right. I have a live stream that
[4:11:52] Speaker 1: I've done with that exact topic where I said abortion
[4:11:55] Speaker 1: is the most Christian thing you can do, and I
[4:11:57] Speaker 1: went through the Bible to demonstrate your exact claim that
[4:12:00] Speaker 1: that is the most Christian thing you do to lay
[4:12:02] Speaker 1: down your eternal soul to save all of those babies.
[4:12:05] Speaker 1: I'm one hundred percent on board with you and fierce interaction.
[4:12:09] Speaker 1: Good to see you again tonight. Thank you so much
[4:12:10] Speaker 1: for the twenty dollars supertests. It's always nice to watch
[4:12:12] Speaker 1: you cook. Wish i'd gotten here earlier. Well, you're here now,
[4:12:16] Speaker 1: and I'm so glad that you're here, and I really
[4:12:18] Speaker 1: appreciate you coming to the streams and liking and sharing
[4:12:22] Speaker 1: and supporting this stream. We definitely appreciate all of our regulars.
[4:12:26] Speaker 1: We've got so many regulars that are in here supporting
[4:12:29] Speaker 1: and it does not go unnoticed. We really appreciate that.
[4:12:31] Speaker 1: All right, now, I'm gonna pull in another guys from
[4:12:33] Speaker 1: the YouTube queue. I apologize. I know some people have
[4:12:35] Speaker 1: been waiting for a long time. It looks like next
[4:12:39] Speaker 1: in line is gonna be Aaron. Aaron. Oh shit, Aaron,
[4:12:47] Speaker 1: there's a really bad echo on your end. Do you
[4:12:49] Speaker 1: have any headphones or something you could plug in?
[4:12:53] Speaker 2: I might not? All right, hold on, all right, okay,
[4:12:59] Speaker 2: all right.
[4:13:00] Speaker 1: Find find some headphones and come back, all right, So
[4:13:02] Speaker 1: then we'll grab Paul next, we'll bring Paul and hidom poem. Paul,
[4:13:10] Speaker 1: your microphones shows that it's muted right now on your
[4:13:13] Speaker 1: end says you've got a T sixty microphone and a
[4:13:17] Speaker 1: T sixty headset.
[4:13:19] Speaker 4: So got sugg justin?
[4:13:21] Speaker 2: Can you hear me?
[4:13:22] Speaker 1: Now?
[4:13:22] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[4:13:22] Speaker 1: I got your hiding poem.
[4:13:25] Speaker 4: Good gif.
[4:13:26] Speaker 17: So, uh, just a It may not even be appropriate
[4:13:30] Speaker 17: to this streaming, but I just wanted to touch on
[4:13:34] Speaker 17: the topic of Paul being a false apostle, seeing if
[4:13:38] Speaker 17: you've delved into that whole topic at all.
[4:13:41] Speaker 1: So we talk about it kind of when it comes
[4:13:43] Speaker 1: up in stream, and I agree that Paul was, we're
[4:13:48] Speaker 1: going to say, a bad Jew. I don't think he
[4:13:51] Speaker 1: knew his Old Testament very well. He misquotes it in
[4:13:54] Speaker 1: the Book of Corinthians. He seems to misunderstand large portions
[4:13:59] Speaker 1: of it. And to me, I, you know, I feel
[4:14:02] Speaker 1: like Paul had a near death experience. I think the
[4:14:05] Speaker 1: guy fell off his horse, bumped his head and had
[4:14:07] Speaker 1: a vision, and then went about trying to figure out
[4:14:11] Speaker 1: how he can squeeze Jesus into the Old Testament. And
[4:14:15] Speaker 1: he does a lot of somersaults trying to make it happen.
[4:14:17] Speaker 1: But in the in the you know, in the process,
[4:14:20] Speaker 1: he basically turns into a heretic.
[4:14:24] Speaker 17: Gotcha, So and sorry, I'm I was having to go
[4:14:27] Speaker 17: back and think about why I was even wanting to
[4:14:29] Speaker 17: bring this up with you. But it was actually a
[4:14:31] Speaker 17: reference to one of your previous videos where you had
[4:14:33] Speaker 17: told somebody and I don't remember exactly, so I apologize
[4:14:37] Speaker 17: if I'm misquoting, but you're basically saying that typology is
[4:14:42] Speaker 17: just a bad hermeneutics or something along the lines of that.
[4:14:45] Speaker 1: Yes, so I know that typology was popular during Paul's
[4:14:49] Speaker 1: time period. I think typology is silly. I think it's ridiculous.
[4:14:52] Speaker 1: I think it's a megacope. And so, like when I
[4:14:55] Speaker 1: talked about like the New Testament's use of the Old Testament,
[4:14:58] Speaker 1: it appears to just be a big hope. Well, it's
[4:15:01] Speaker 1: not like they were the only ones doing it. Like,
[4:15:03] Speaker 1: if you look at the Dead Sea Scrolls and other
[4:15:05] Speaker 1: similar writings from the time period, a lot of them
[4:15:08] Speaker 1: were realizing that the Old Testament prophecies didn't really seem
[4:15:11] Speaker 1: to come true, and they were just reinterpreting them. In fact,
[4:15:14] Speaker 1: there's a bunch of pressuriem among the Dead Sea Scrolls
[4:15:18] Speaker 1: of them reinterpreting the prophecies about their community, and of
[4:15:23] Speaker 1: course those reinterpretations failed as well. So, like I understand
[4:15:27] Speaker 1: that this was a popular thing to do, I just
[4:15:30] Speaker 1: think that it's a huge cope every time it's done.
[4:15:35] Speaker 17: Gotcha, So would it be appropriate for the stream if
[4:15:38] Speaker 17: I just kind of present so the argument for Paul
[4:15:42] Speaker 17: being a second century literary character that's just a typology
[4:15:46] Speaker 17: fulfillments of a false prophetess.
[4:15:49] Speaker 2: Well, like to test people.
[4:15:51] Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, you could. It sounds like you
[4:15:54] Speaker 1: agree with me then, but unfortunately, yeah, I agree, thought. Yeah, Unfortunately,
[4:16:00] Speaker 1: everyone's here to see a debate, so I can't really
[4:16:03] Speaker 1: use a bunch of time to.
[4:16:06] Speaker 4: It.
[4:16:07] Speaker 1: But hit me up on the discord. Actually, I'll be
[4:16:11] Speaker 1: doing a Q and A this Sunday after the Atheist experience,
[4:16:15] Speaker 1: but it also just hit me up on the discord too,
[4:16:19] Speaker 1: because I'd be intrigued to see the argument. I've heard
[4:16:23] Speaker 1: christ before. Jesus gives some arguments for why Paul was fiction,
[4:16:27] Speaker 1: and to me, they're you know, I don't know if
[4:16:29] Speaker 1: I'm convinced by them yet, but I think they're really interesting.
[4:16:33] Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, I can definitely do that.
[4:16:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, i'd love to hear from Thanks for waiting all
[4:16:38] Speaker 1: that time. I'm sorry, it's been a busy night. It's
[4:16:40] Speaker 1: been a full night.
[4:16:42] Speaker 17: Oh it's fine. I'm doing work. I just said, John,
[4:16:43] Speaker 17: I'm waiting to come in.
[4:16:45] Speaker 1: So thanks so much.
[4:16:46] Speaker 2: Paul.
[4:16:49] Speaker 1: W Paul. We talked out that long ago. Actually, let
[4:16:55] Speaker 1: me grab another guest in here. Match Energy says past
[4:17:00] Speaker 1: told us good people go to hell, Christians go to heaven. Yeah,
[4:17:03] Speaker 1: so essentially, what he's saying, is that all people who
[4:17:05] Speaker 1: aren't Christians are bad people? Or she as crazy. Bruce
[4:17:09] Speaker 1: has picked one Money Python Life of Brian or Holy
[4:17:12] Speaker 1: Grail Life of Brian. I think it's got a better plot.
[4:17:16] Speaker 1: I do love the Holy Grail, but it's kind of
[4:17:19] Speaker 1: like Napoleon Dynamite, where the plot is lacking even though
[4:17:21] Speaker 1: it full of great one liners. But the Money Python
[4:17:24] Speaker 1: Life of Brian has got a better plot. Austin says.
[4:17:28] Speaker 1: A rabbi, a priest, and a minister walk into I'm sorry,
[4:17:31] Speaker 1: a rabbi, a priest, and a minister walk into a bar.
[4:17:33] Speaker 1: The bartender asks, what.
[4:17:35] Speaker 5: Joke is this?
[4:17:37] Speaker 1: That's a good version of one that I tell I
[4:17:39] Speaker 1: like that a lot, and el Krocki says crazy echo
[4:17:42] Speaker 1: on guests justin, Oh sorry, got we did figure that out.
[4:17:45] Speaker 1: Thank you for letting us know and match energy again,
[4:17:47] Speaker 1: says my pastor told congregation, good people go to hell,
[4:17:50] Speaker 1: Christians go to heaven. I was terrified also the unforgivable sin.
[4:17:54] Speaker 1: They were so weaponized, I know, so I'm glad you
[4:17:57] Speaker 1: gave me some clarification the unforgivable sin. Thank you for
[4:18:00] Speaker 1: the hat, Miss Lilac. The unforgivable sin from Mark chapter three.
[4:18:04] Speaker 1: I believe is a wild take. But anyways, Austin says,
[4:18:08] Speaker 1: remember to assume. I'm sorry, Remember to assume makes an
[4:18:11] Speaker 1: ass out of you and me every time. Don't don't
[4:18:14] Speaker 1: assume assumptions are bad. Okay, all right.
[4:18:18] Speaker 2: Let me grab We've got some people.
[4:18:20] Speaker 1: I've mentioned this before and i'll mention it again if
[4:18:24] Speaker 1: you're in the YouTube queue. I do prioritize people that
[4:18:28] Speaker 1: have cameras and microphones, and right now it looks like
[4:18:32] Speaker 1: it looks like, uh is it? Elaine Thomas?
[4:18:36] Speaker 2: Thomas?
[4:18:38] Speaker 9: Can you hear me?
[4:18:40] Speaker 1: I can hear you, but I can also hear myself.
[4:18:44] Speaker 9: I can talk a little louder.
[4:18:46] Speaker 1: Can you plug in some headphones or bluetoothes or something,
[4:18:49] Speaker 1: because when I talk, it comes out of your speaker
[4:18:52] Speaker 1: and feeds back into your microphone.
[4:18:55] Speaker 9: Yeah yeah, yeah, give me one second.
[4:19:00] Speaker 2: Kah huh.
[4:19:01] Speaker 9: So if you if you see there's gonna be another
[4:19:04] Speaker 9: of me. My name, it's that's my iPad. That's where
[4:19:07] Speaker 9: I'm hearing the audio to. I can't connect heapephones to
[4:19:10] Speaker 9: my phone, but I can connect it to our It
[4:19:11] Speaker 9: just says alien, Do you see that on there? Yeah, yeah, okay,
[4:19:14] Speaker 9: I'll connect them to that, all right, what about they're wired?
[4:19:19] Speaker 1: So, all right, so I'm gonna add I'm gonna add
[4:19:26] Speaker 1: them to the screen twice.
[4:19:27] Speaker 9: Phone, says Alien Thomas. Just iPad says.
[4:19:31] Speaker 1: Fair enough, fair enough, all right, we'll see if this works.
[4:19:47] Speaker 1: So I'm not echoing, but I can't hear you just yet.
[4:19:54] Speaker 1: Let's see if we can make this work. I don't
[4:20:06] Speaker 1: hear you yet, although it does show that you have
[4:20:13] Speaker 1: your headset plugged in. I'm not sure what he's up to.
[4:20:25] Speaker 1: You guys, well while he's trying to get his headset working. Starfish,
[4:20:30] Speaker 1: thank you for the supertest, says, we need an actually counter. Actually,
[4:20:35] Speaker 1: I think we do need an actually counter. I'm actually
[4:20:37] Speaker 1: in agreement with that. I just did two more for
[4:20:40] Speaker 1: you and Jake. I thank you for the supertest, says,
[4:20:42] Speaker 1: what do you call a book club that's been stuck
[4:20:45] Speaker 1: on one book forever? Church? That is true, I am
[4:20:52] Speaker 1: no longer a member of that book club, although I.
[4:20:54] Speaker 2: Do enjoy it.
[4:20:58] Speaker 1: All right, I don't have anything yet from your audio.
[4:21:07] Speaker 1: It's not showing at all that your audio is even
[4:21:11] Speaker 1: plugged in. Let me recycle it. Well, this should be
[4:21:25] Speaker 1: fun I'll see if this works. Well, Elaine, I believe
[4:21:34] Speaker 1: in you. I believe in you. Johannah, good to see
[4:21:38] Speaker 1: you tonight. Johannah says they don't believe in pixies, unicorns,
[4:21:41] Speaker 1: or dragons, but they believe in a holy ghost. What
[4:21:44] Speaker 1: the fuck?
[4:21:44] Speaker 15: I know?
[4:21:45] Speaker 1: Right, If I'm going to believe in magical entities, I'm
[4:21:47] Speaker 1: believing in unicorns and pixies. That is a clear winner, obviously,
[4:21:52] Speaker 1: and uh jah Rakula says, love the channel amazingly insightful. Well,
[4:21:58] Speaker 1: I appreciate that, John, big w, thanks for being here
[4:22:01] Speaker 1: and track the Thank you for the ten dollars super things,
[4:22:05] Speaker 1: big w. Elaine, I see that you're talking, but I
[4:22:10] Speaker 1: don't hear any audio. All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna
[4:22:14] Speaker 1: have to move on. I apologize. Come on back, get
[4:22:16] Speaker 1: your technology sorted out, and come on back. We'll get
[4:22:19] Speaker 1: you pulled in. We're gonna grab gator mouth.
[4:22:26] Speaker 11: Can you hear me?
[4:22:29] Speaker 1: I heard somebody.
[4:22:32] Speaker 11: Hello?
[4:22:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, who's talking?
[4:22:34] Speaker 2: Is this gator Mouth?
[4:22:36] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[4:22:36] Speaker 4: It's me.
[4:22:37] Speaker 1: Yeah, your voice is coming through. For some reason, your
[4:22:39] Speaker 1: video is not coming through, but your your voice is
[4:22:41] Speaker 1: showing at least or coming up. I don't know why
[4:22:44] Speaker 1: your video is not on this in one second. I
[4:22:48] Speaker 1: don't think it's you. Your technology seems to be working anyways.
[4:22:51] Speaker 1: We can hear your voice.
[4:22:53] Speaker 11: All right, that's good. I mean I'm not very pretty,
[4:22:56] Speaker 11: but you know that's right.
[4:22:57] Speaker 2: Can you all hear him?
[4:22:58] Speaker 1: So I need to turn them up? Is he enough
[4:23:05] Speaker 1: say something for us so they can hear you.
[4:23:09] Speaker 11: Atheists?
[4:23:12] Speaker 2: Oh?
[4:23:12] Speaker 1: He's ad turn them up? Oh you're are you an atheist?
[4:23:16] Speaker 11: Uh no, I'm actually a Christian?
[4:23:18] Speaker 1: Okay, all right, fantastic. Okay, So what would be like
[4:23:21] Speaker 1: the most compelling evidence or argument for the Christian God
[4:23:24] Speaker 1: being real?
[4:23:27] Speaker 11: I would say, just a simple one of creation?
[4:23:32] Speaker 1: Well, what if I don't believe there is a creation.
[4:23:38] Speaker 11: I wouldn't see any evidence of their not being one.
[4:23:42] Speaker 1: Well, what I'm saying is everything in the universe seems
[4:23:46] Speaker 1: to exist. Why would I believe that it once didn't exist?
[4:23:55] Speaker 11: Let me think of that.
[4:24:04] Speaker 1: It's just.
[4:24:06] Speaker 11: You did still be there?
[4:24:07] Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, yeah, I can hear you.
[4:24:14] Speaker 1: Right, So like the Yeah, the position that you're in
[4:24:19] Speaker 1: is essentially this right. Here's I'll kind of give you
[4:24:22] Speaker 1: the difference between our two positions. My position is that
[4:24:25] Speaker 1: the stuff that we know exists, the stuff that's all
[4:24:27] Speaker 1: around us, that it always existed. Your position is that
[4:24:33] Speaker 1: it once didn't exist, and not only did it not exist,
[4:24:36] Speaker 1: it came into existence by like some sort of spiritual
[4:24:42] Speaker 1: entity that we have no evidence of. It seems like
[4:24:45] Speaker 1: you're putting two assumptions into the equation that don't need
[4:24:48] Speaker 1: to be there.
[4:24:51] Speaker 11: I understand that. Ah, what about evolution, I don't believe
[4:24:57] Speaker 11: it exists.
[4:24:59] Speaker 1: Well, I think is different than the god argument. Right, So, like,
[4:25:01] Speaker 1: even if there was no such thing as evolution, it
[4:25:04] Speaker 1: has nothing to do with whether or not God existed.
[4:25:06] Speaker 1: But to be sure, I do think that evolution is true.
[4:25:12] Speaker 2: I understand that.
[4:25:13] Speaker 18: Yeah, Well, my I don't. I don't understand the evolution.
[4:25:16] Speaker 18: It's kind of a dumb concept. I understand that there's
[4:25:20] Speaker 18: some forms of evolution, like obviously we're going to have
[4:25:24] Speaker 18: two Wallas back in the beginning, but that's because of
[4:25:28] Speaker 18: selected breeding, right, But like I know a.
[4:25:32] Speaker 1: Couple atheists that don't believe in evolution. I don't think
[4:25:35] Speaker 1: that evolution is a requirement to be an atheist.
[4:25:39] Speaker 11: Yeah, I understand that. Yeah, I want to think on that.
[4:25:43] Speaker 18: Uh well then thank you stump, merely, Well that happened sometimes, man, you're.
[4:25:56] Speaker 11: Let's stop me da much very exciting, you.
[4:25:58] Speaker 18: Know, Ah, I understand if you don't mind me asking
[4:26:05] Speaker 18: why did you stop becoming a Christian?
[4:26:08] Speaker 1: Well, I left christianityway because I studied the Bible and
[4:26:10] Speaker 1: it just to me it couldn't hold up to scrutiny.
[4:26:13] Speaker 1: The God of the Bible was like a genocidal, misogynistic maniac,
[4:26:19] Speaker 1: and Jesus didn't fulfill any prophecies, and the Bible gets
[4:26:22] Speaker 1: like history and science wrong all the time. So like
[4:26:26] Speaker 1: for me, it was like a death by a thousand
[4:26:27] Speaker 1: paper cuts. I found one problem, then a second problem,
[4:26:30] Speaker 1: then the third problem. Before you know what, I've got
[4:26:31] Speaker 1: a thousand problems. I'm like, you know what, I don't
[4:26:33] Speaker 1: think this is true.
[4:26:36] Speaker 11: Well, in my faith, God is a creature that we
[4:26:41] Speaker 11: don't fully understand. He is of a higher power.
[4:26:44] Speaker 18: It so so I fist to have thought of the
[4:26:48] Speaker 18: I think it's either the fourth dimension of fifth dimension
[4:26:51] Speaker 18: to where it's it's we can't possibly understand it.
[4:26:56] Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if that's entirely true. A co
[4:27:00] Speaker 1: host of mine named doctor Blitz wrote his PhD dissertation
[4:27:05] Speaker 1: on the fifth dimension. It seems like he I think
[4:27:11] Speaker 1: he understands it. I don't understand it. I don't know
[4:27:13] Speaker 1: shit about that kind of thing.
[4:27:15] Speaker 18: I heard something the other day about it. It was like,
[4:27:18] Speaker 18: imagine being under a pole of water and then rain
[4:27:21] Speaker 18: coming down off the top, and that's the close that
[4:27:23] Speaker 18: you can get to it. Yeah, and I was just
[4:27:26] Speaker 18: as confused.
[4:27:28] Speaker 1: I mean, to be sure, some people understand these concepts,
[4:27:31] Speaker 1: but those people are not me. I don't Those are
[4:27:33] Speaker 1: two Those types of topics are way out of my
[4:27:37] Speaker 1: pay grade.
[4:27:39] Speaker 11: Yeah, I understand that.
[4:27:43] Speaker 1: So let me ask you the reverse question. Then, why
[4:27:45] Speaker 1: do you believe that Christianity is true?
[4:27:50] Speaker 11: It's more of a.
[4:27:52] Speaker 18: Feeling as much as I don't have any evidence. I
[4:27:56] Speaker 18: obviously I'm too young and not small enough like these
[4:28:00] Speaker 18: other guys.
[4:28:01] Speaker 1: But well you're start enough to give an on an answer.
[4:28:05] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[4:28:06] Speaker 11: Yeah.
[4:28:07] Speaker 1: A lot of people come up here and they can't
[4:28:08] Speaker 1: be honest. They get up here and they twist themselves
[4:28:11] Speaker 1: into pretzels.
[4:28:13] Speaker 11: Here's my honest opinion. I don't have any facts whatsoever.
[4:28:17] Speaker 11: I just have a feeling.
[4:28:19] Speaker 18: It might have been because I was somewhat raised, and
[4:28:23] Speaker 18: in that is possibility, I could one hundred percent be
[4:28:26] Speaker 18: brainwashed right now. I mean, as an open minded person
[4:28:29] Speaker 18: like I am. I I've never thought the same way twice.
[4:28:33] Speaker 18: You know, I've constantly had my beliefs changed. And right
[4:28:39] Speaker 18: now I believe in God and Jesus, and who knows,
[4:28:43] Speaker 18: maybe in five years I'll be an atheist or agnostic.
[4:28:47] Speaker 1: Want me to give you a gentle nudge along that path?
[4:28:52] Speaker 11: Possibly, who knows, Maybe i'll think you one day.
[4:28:54] Speaker 2: But yeah, it's okay, don't worry.
[4:28:59] Speaker 1: Listen, when you're ready to question your beliefs, come back
[4:29:02] Speaker 1: and I'll put you through the ringer.
[4:29:03] Speaker 11: Okay, all right, I'll follow you to no worry.
[4:29:10] Speaker 2: All right, sounds good, good to every man.
[4:29:12] Speaker 18: Uh, if you don't mind, could I if you don't
[4:29:16] Speaker 18: mind that channel I'm trying out. Uh, it's gator Mouth
[4:29:21] Speaker 18: with two ages. I try to do gaming and it's
[4:29:25] Speaker 18: just try to make some fun out of it.
[4:29:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I think everyone here you got you know,
[4:29:30] Speaker 1: two thousand people, fifteen hundred people that just heard it.
[4:29:32] Speaker 1: Two thousand people know about Gatormouth now, So if you
[4:29:35] Speaker 1: like gaming, head over to Gatormouth.
[4:29:40] Speaker 11: I feel like it's good to have these I feel
[4:29:43] Speaker 11: like it's good to have these things.
[4:29:46] Speaker 4: I don't think I think I.
[4:29:51] Speaker 1: Thinks yeah, it gets very Yeah, Skator mouths your your
[4:29:56] Speaker 1: connection is breaking up a little bit, honest, but do
[4:29:59] Speaker 1: come back when you're when you're ready to do a
[4:30:03] Speaker 1: deep dive, because I'd love to do a deep dive
[4:30:05] Speaker 1: with you sometimes.
[4:30:09] Speaker 11: That's good.
[4:30:09] Speaker 1: Thank you for having me absolutely, cheers, man, it was
[4:30:14] Speaker 1: a nice seg Man was honest.
[4:30:17] Speaker 9: Sorry, So.
[4:30:19] Speaker 1: Ellien, Ellien is back. We're gonna get Ellen. We're gonna
[4:30:23] Speaker 1: try again to get Ellien in the into the stream.
[4:30:27] Speaker 1: And then it looks like Aaron is ready to rock
[4:30:29] Speaker 1: and roll too. Okay, we've got two people ready to
[4:30:31] Speaker 1: come in and then match. Energy says this guy is
[4:30:34] Speaker 1: like a dripping tap a slow cooker. Actually, that reminds
[4:30:40] Speaker 1: me of a proverb where it says a nagging wife
[4:30:45] Speaker 1: is like a leaky uh. Some Bible translations say leaky faucet,
[4:30:50] Speaker 1: but they didn't really have faucets. But it's like a
[4:30:53] Speaker 1: constant dripper, constant leak, which I always thought was a
[4:30:57] Speaker 1: pretty wild thing to say about women, at least it says.
[4:31:00] Speaker 1: Schollar worships Paul the Antichrist his writings. Actually, that's pretty common.
[4:31:04] Speaker 1: Most people follow Paul, not Jesus, and welcome to the
[4:31:07] Speaker 1: Crack and Crew Elite. Mike big W, thank you for
[4:31:10] Speaker 1: being coming a member and you have access to the
[4:31:13] Speaker 1: cheat sheet. And Johannah again with the super chest, thank
[4:31:16] Speaker 1: you so much. It's most definitely the only book club
[4:31:18] Speaker 1: I would ever want to join is the Bible Book Club. Well,
[4:31:22] Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I don't want to join the club,
[4:31:24] Speaker 1: but you know I'm going to read the book. I'm
[4:31:25] Speaker 1: going to read it to people who aren't even in
[4:31:28] Speaker 1: the club.
[4:31:29] Speaker 2: And welcome to the.
[4:31:29] Speaker 1: Crack and Crew Elite. Ornando big W appreciate that, and
[4:31:33] Speaker 1: Design thank you for the superchest says like all imaginary creatures,
[4:31:37] Speaker 1: God Drew power is giving believers the ability to speak
[4:31:39] Speaker 1: while being thoroughly cooked. Actually, that happens a lot. It
[4:31:43] Speaker 1: happens way more than I thought it would when I
[4:31:45] Speaker 1: started doing these live streams. I'm perplexed by how often
[4:31:48] Speaker 1: it happens. Joshua pieces, but what if and stay with
[4:31:52] Speaker 1: me for a second, words mean other words. You've summed
[4:31:57] Speaker 1: up the apologist argument perfectly, Josh, Well, that is the
[4:32:01] Speaker 1: apologist argument. What if these words don't mean what words mean?
[4:32:05] Speaker 1: And Penelope, thank you for the supertest, says, here's a
[4:32:07] Speaker 1: contribution to your Bible Verse tattoo removal fund, praise Doug
[4:32:10] Speaker 1: and carry on, big w Listen, I was serious about that.
[4:32:13] Speaker 1: If that young man is ready to get rid of
[4:32:15] Speaker 1: his Bible Verse tattoo on the top of his head,
[4:32:18] Speaker 1: I'm more than happy to pay for it. And Johanna
[4:32:21] Speaker 1: again says Justin you are a great chef. You're cooking
[4:32:24] Speaker 1: is phenomenal. Well, thank you so much Chef's gifts to you.
[4:32:27] Speaker 1: I appreciate you dining with us tonight. So, Ellien, I've
[4:32:32] Speaker 1: got your stream pulled up and you're unmuted. I'm hoping
[4:32:36] Speaker 1: that it actually works, so I still can't hear you.
[4:32:46] Speaker 1: It says that you have a microphone plugged in, but
[4:32:51] Speaker 1: if you're saying something, none of it's coming through. I
[4:32:59] Speaker 1: don't know what to tell. Yeah, your technology is I've
[4:33:04] Speaker 1: got both of them pulled up right now. Neither one
[4:33:06] Speaker 1: of them are working. I don't think this guy's technology
[4:33:12] Speaker 1: is gonna work. Elliott. I want this to work for you,
[4:33:18] Speaker 1: so I'm gonna I'm gonna give you some really good advice.
[4:33:20] Speaker 1: Let's not waste any more time on this, Okay. What
[4:33:23] Speaker 1: I want you to do is just download TikTok and
[4:33:27] Speaker 1: join up on the TikTok stream. You can find the
[4:33:29] Speaker 1: TikTok stream in the description of the video. TikTok will
[4:33:33] Speaker 1: help you out. All you need is some kind of
[4:33:35] Speaker 1: a working phone, some kind of a working tablet, some
[4:33:37] Speaker 1: kind of a working anything, as long as it's not
[4:33:40] Speaker 1: a computer, and you'll be fine. That's crazy.
[4:33:47] Speaker 2: Uh uh.
[4:33:48] Speaker 1: Jamo, thank you so much for the superchat. Jamo says,
[4:33:51] Speaker 1: Kirk was paralyzed by cognitive dissonance. Dang, Actually, I think
[4:33:55] Speaker 1: that's the right way to describe it. Actually, I'm in
[4:33:59] Speaker 1: agree with you, and Frank, thank you for the super
[4:34:01] Speaker 1: chest says justin just curious. Is it possible that Jesus
[4:34:03] Speaker 1: fulfilled the prophecy of Jeremiah now since Israel was restored
[4:34:07] Speaker 1: and he is king of the world. No, because it
[4:34:11] Speaker 1: says that all of them are gonna be restored to land.
[4:34:13] Speaker 1: He's gonna collect all the people from all the countries
[4:34:15] Speaker 1: they've been scattered and bring them back to the land,
[4:34:18] Speaker 1: and there are going to be a king in an
[4:34:19] Speaker 1: actual physical king in the land, on the throne of
[4:34:22] Speaker 1: King David. So I wouldn't count that, but I appreciate
[4:34:24] Speaker 1: the question either way. So we've got Aarin with us. Now, Aaron,
[4:34:27] Speaker 1: thanks for waiting, and thanks for having a camera turned
[4:34:30] Speaker 1: on and for listening, because you got a ear piece
[4:34:33] Speaker 1: in your ear. So let me see if I I
[4:34:38] Speaker 1: can't hear you, but I can see you real good,
[4:34:39] Speaker 1: can you? I assume you can. I assume you can.
[4:34:44] Speaker 2: Hold on.
[4:34:47] Speaker 1: I'm gonna request your speakerphone for Mike. See if that
[4:34:53] Speaker 1: works any better? What is happening with technology tonight? We
[4:35:00] Speaker 1: cannot get people's technology working tonight. It shows right now
[4:35:05] Speaker 1: that you've got headphones plugged in, and you've got a speakerphone,
[4:35:08] Speaker 1: and you've got a headset, and you've got a Bluetooth headset,
[4:35:12] Speaker 1: and I can't hear audio from it. Hold on, hold on, Aaron.
[4:35:17] Speaker 1: It was my fault.
[4:35:20] Speaker 11: Can you hear me?
[4:35:21] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[4:35:21] Speaker 1: It was my fault.
[4:35:25] Speaker 2: Oh no ways, yeah, yeah, sorry about that.
[4:35:28] Speaker 1: I had good to meet you. Yeah, I had it
[4:35:32] Speaker 1: temporarily muted. When the guests come into the guest box,
[4:35:35] Speaker 1: my system automatically mutes them so that I don't hear
[4:35:39] Speaker 1: ten people talking over each other while we're having conversations. So, Aaron,
[4:35:44] Speaker 1: it's great, great to meet you. Welcome in and are
[4:35:48] Speaker 1: you at least eighteen and do you believe in some
[4:35:50] Speaker 1: kind of a god?
[4:35:53] Speaker 10: I am, I'm twenty seven, and I don't believe. However,
[4:35:59] Speaker 10: I do have a sort of an interesting debate for you.
[4:36:03] Speaker 1: I believe sure must have it.
[4:36:07] Speaker 10: So I'm a little bit worried about how conclusive it
[4:36:13] Speaker 10: seems like you might be being in in these chats.
[4:36:16] Speaker 10: I'm I'm not saying that you are, but I'm just
[4:36:19] Speaker 10: interpreting it. Perhaps it's more conclusive. So, like, my background
[4:36:25] Speaker 10: is in science. I study astronomy and physics, and I am,
[4:36:31] Speaker 10: I don't know, I'm sort of been kind of pushed
[4:36:33] Speaker 10: into the idea of like trying to avoid jumping to
[4:36:36] Speaker 10: too many conclusions to I'm about I don't know about
[4:36:41] Speaker 10: jumping too far ahead. I'm based on conclusions I've drawn
[4:36:46] Speaker 10: about smaller details. So like, it seems like listening to you,
[4:36:53] Speaker 10: a lot of what you're discussing is about smaller versus
[4:36:57] Speaker 10: in smaller within the Bible, and I'm a little bit
[4:37:04] Speaker 10: worried about using that to god judge the overall existence
[4:37:08] Speaker 10: of a God.
[4:37:10] Speaker 1: I'm not using the Bible to judge the existence of
[4:37:13] Speaker 1: a non Bible God.
[4:37:16] Speaker 11: Well, I mean, so I believe that.
[4:37:21] Speaker 10: If the Bible if there's any truth in the Bible,
[4:37:24] Speaker 10: it could be wildly inaccurate, but there might be it
[4:37:28] Speaker 10: might have a source of truth that stems from.
[4:37:32] Speaker 1: Would you say the same thing about the Bagada, Vita
[4:37:36] Speaker 1: or the Quran.
[4:37:38] Speaker 10: I'm not sure. I'm not as I would assume. Maybe
[4:37:44] Speaker 10: that's sort of my perspective a little bit when it
[4:37:46] Speaker 10: comes to all of these texts.
[4:37:47] Speaker 1: Right, So I like the approach that the Koran sets forth.
[4:37:50] Speaker 1: You know, Allah says of the Koran that if you
[4:37:52] Speaker 1: find one false thing in it, then it's not from God. Now,
[4:37:56] Speaker 1: I don't give the Bible that much credit. I think
[4:37:59] Speaker 1: you can probably find some things in it that are
[4:38:01] Speaker 1: false and still say somehow it was from God. But
[4:38:03] Speaker 1: the problem I have is that there's so much in
[4:38:06] Speaker 1: it that is clearly false. I have no reason to
[4:38:09] Speaker 1: believe that it's from God.
[4:38:11] Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, And I do see your point of view there.
[4:38:15] Speaker 10: I guess I'm the way I'm interpreting it is that
[4:38:17] Speaker 10: the Bible, although it's said to be the actual word
[4:38:20] Speaker 10: of God, it's also written by man, and man is
[4:38:26] Speaker 10: wildly inaccurate, right, and many things. Thanks, And I'm thinking, oh, sorry.
[4:38:32] Speaker 1: I agree with you that it is certainly written by men.
[4:38:35] Speaker 1: What would be the part that would convince me that
[4:38:39] Speaker 1: it was also like a partnership with God.
[4:38:43] Speaker 10: I suppose I'm not seeking to add conclusive evidence that
[4:38:48] Speaker 10: it is. I guess I'm seeking the idea, like the
[4:38:51] Speaker 10: possibility that it might there might be something in there,
[4:38:54] Speaker 10: it might stem from something. Perhaps there was a singular
[4:38:58] Speaker 10: experience before it was written that sort of inspired other
[4:39:02] Speaker 10: people to make tall tales about what happened.
[4:39:05] Speaker 1: I don't know, Like, I guess, but what would lead
[4:39:08] Speaker 1: me to like, why would I adopt that position? Like,
[4:39:11] Speaker 1: what would be like the motivating factor?
[4:39:15] Speaker 10: I suppose I'm not seeking for adoption of it. I
[4:39:18] Speaker 10: guess I'm seeking for whether or not it's an open
[4:39:22] Speaker 10: minded perspective that is acceptable as an acceptable outcome. If
[4:39:29] Speaker 10: I'm sorry, I'm not I'm not thinking. I'm not using
[4:39:31] Speaker 10: my words as distinctly as i'd like to h I
[4:39:36] Speaker 10: suppose I'm just worried about drawing conclusion saying that there
[4:39:40] Speaker 10: is no God when we don't know all the background
[4:39:46] Speaker 10: information about what inspired the text in the first place.
[4:39:50] Speaker 1: Right, So my position is this, like the God of
[4:39:52] Speaker 1: the Bible clearly doesn't exist. Now there could be another God.
[4:39:55] Speaker 1: It could be like a deistic god that just kicked
[4:39:57] Speaker 1: everything in the motion. I think they're a good like
[4:40:00] Speaker 1: philosophical arguments that would justify those gods not actually being
[4:40:05] Speaker 1: able to exist. I think that's one route you can go.
[4:40:08] Speaker 1: You can go with science route too, but I think
[4:40:10] Speaker 1: you can disprove a notion of a god without even
[4:40:13] Speaker 1: touching science. I think you can just use it using philosophy.
[4:40:17] Speaker 1: So like, I don't know, but I could be convinced
[4:40:21] Speaker 1: if I had evidence or an argument for God existing,
[4:40:24] Speaker 1: But I don't think there's any evidence that wouldever convince
[4:40:26] Speaker 1: me that the Bible God is real because the book
[4:40:29] Speaker 1: itself is so ridiculous.
[4:40:32] Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying, and I and
[4:40:36] Speaker 10: I definitely sort of adopt that belief myself. Like, you know,
[4:40:39] Speaker 10: I can't push myself to believe in the Bible just
[4:40:42] Speaker 10: because there's so many things in it that seem to
[4:40:46] Speaker 10: contradict itself and what it teaches, and it's just it's
[4:40:51] Speaker 10: so hard to it's so hard to push myself to
[4:40:55] Speaker 10: accept something that has so many that seems to have
[4:40:57] Speaker 10: a flawed foundation. I guess I'm trying my best.
[4:41:02] Speaker 1: Is it possible that there is a god, but it's
[4:41:04] Speaker 1: not the God of the Bible. Oh of course sure.
[4:41:09] Speaker 10: I always used to ask my dad before before he
[4:41:11] Speaker 10: passed that, I always used to ask him. I like,
[4:41:14] Speaker 10: we were never a religious family, and I always bring
[4:41:17] Speaker 10: up stuff like how does God know that there are
[4:41:19] Speaker 10: no other gods? Like how is how is he certain
[4:41:23] Speaker 10: of that? R? Like, I don't know. I don't know
[4:41:25] Speaker 10: how anybody can, Like how can you know if you're
[4:41:28] Speaker 10: all knowing?
[4:41:29] Speaker 2: Right?
[4:41:30] Speaker 1: Yeah, the all knowingness of God is a bit of
[4:41:32] Speaker 1: a problem, like when you have the triomna properties, you've
[4:41:35] Speaker 1: got big issues. But like, you know, to the point though,
[4:41:39] Speaker 1: like if it's possible that there's a God that exists
[4:41:42] Speaker 1: and it's not the God of the Bible, you know,
[4:41:44] Speaker 1: the follow up question I would just ask, is you
[4:41:46] Speaker 1: know what's motivating you to want to connect the Bible
[4:41:50] Speaker 1: to the God that you believe exists.
[4:41:53] Speaker 10: I suppose just because it's so prevalent in my culture, right,
[4:41:57] Speaker 10: Like you know, just I see it, I see it everywhere.
[4:42:02] Speaker 1: Right. I would say the same thing for Hindus and
[4:42:04] Speaker 1: Muslims and whatnot. You know, a lot of these people
[4:42:06] Speaker 1: already have a belief in God, and so they adapt
[4:42:10] Speaker 1: their belief in God to the God of their culture.
[4:42:14] Speaker 1: And we see this especially in like near death experiences,
[4:42:17] Speaker 1: when people have near death experiences and they claim to
[4:42:20] Speaker 1: have visions of the afterlife, a lot of times the
[4:42:24] Speaker 1: God that they saw in their afterlife was the God
[4:42:27] Speaker 1: that they knew from their culture, from their religion, right, So, Like,
[4:42:31] Speaker 1: so I understand the instinct to like assume that if
[4:42:35] Speaker 1: there is a God, it's the God that I was
[4:42:37] Speaker 1: raised to believe in. But I think that's a comfortable connection.
[4:42:43] Speaker 1: But I think if we're going to be honest, we
[4:42:45] Speaker 1: have to ask the difficult questions of, well, how do
[4:42:48] Speaker 1: we know that it's that specific god?
[4:42:52] Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, and I agree with or if it's or
[4:42:55] Speaker 10: if it's a god that we've never really considered before
[4:42:58] Speaker 10: in the first.
[4:42:58] Speaker 1: Place, that's a fair pob So I agree with you there,
[4:43:01] Speaker 1: it's possible that there there's a God and is absolutely
[4:43:05] Speaker 1: nothing like any god we've ever defined in any Holy
[4:43:08] Speaker 1: Holy Book. Like that's a real probability, And I would
[4:43:11] Speaker 1: say that's way more likely than the Bible God being real.
[4:43:16] Speaker 10: Yeah, i'd agree with that as well. Like, I feel like,
[4:43:21] Speaker 10: I don't know, I feel like the Bible is I sorry,
[4:43:24] Speaker 10: not just the Bible. I keep going to that because again,
[4:43:26] Speaker 10: it's it's spoken more of in my life than any
[4:43:29] Speaker 10: other text. But I feel like a lot of religious
[4:43:32] Speaker 10: texts seek definition for something that might not be definable
[4:43:38] Speaker 10: from our perspective, and that's what makes me worried about
[4:43:42] Speaker 10: like texts like define, Like what what's to say that
[4:43:45] Speaker 10: we have any standing to actually define it?
[4:43:47] Speaker 2: Right?
[4:43:47] Speaker 1: No, listen, I agree with you on these talking points.
[4:43:50] Speaker 1: I think I think these are very good thoughts because
[4:43:53] Speaker 1: if there was such a thing as a God and
[4:43:55] Speaker 1: the God decided that it was going to be hidden
[4:43:59] Speaker 1: from us, which is seems to be the case, or
[4:44:00] Speaker 1: else we'd all know then, Like, it's kind of silly
[4:44:04] Speaker 1: that we would be able to know what God was
[4:44:06] Speaker 1: like if he's chosen to hide himself from us, right, Like,
[4:44:10] Speaker 1: all we can do is theorize. We certainly don't have
[4:44:14] Speaker 1: any solid evidence to know what the properties of the
[4:44:17] Speaker 1: God are. In fact, shit, it might be possible that
[4:44:20] Speaker 1: the God is just like a super evolved being from
[4:44:23] Speaker 1: a prior universe that evolved from so many billions of
[4:44:28] Speaker 1: years of evolution that it was able to create a
[4:44:30] Speaker 1: new universes, you know, like the Mormon god system. Yeah,
[4:44:39] Speaker 1: but anyways, I don't know, but I think when when
[4:44:42] Speaker 1: if you have a belief in God and you immediately
[4:44:45] Speaker 1: want to pin the Bible to it, even though the
[4:44:48] Speaker 1: Bible seems to have clear issues, I would say that
[4:44:50] Speaker 1: the book doesn't help you. Just get rid of the
[4:44:52] Speaker 1: book and think about if this God exists, what's the
[4:44:55] Speaker 1: most logical form of the God?
[4:45:00] Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, I know what you mean.
[4:45:04] Speaker 10: And I actually have one other question. Uh, so we
[4:45:10] Speaker 10: talk about evidence. I try to like split things up
[4:45:13] Speaker 10: in the conclusive and non conclusive evidence. I don't necessarily
[4:45:18] Speaker 10: have a problem with people basing their beliefs off of
[4:45:24] Speaker 10: some sort of like you were talking with a previous
[4:45:26] Speaker 10: caller about the watchmaker like or sorry to watch maker,
[4:45:30] Speaker 10: argument like a watch implies a watchmaker like And I
[4:45:34] Speaker 10: can kind of see that argument a little bit, like
[4:45:36] Speaker 10: you know, if you see like how how efficient the
[4:45:40] Speaker 10: cell of the human body is, or how how perfect
[4:45:45] Speaker 10: the conditions for Earth are.
[4:45:48] Speaker 5: Or.
[4:45:50] Speaker 10: Or just just I wish I could come up with
[4:45:52] Speaker 10: another example right off the top of my head right now,
[4:45:56] Speaker 10: But I don't know. I I feel like it's not
[4:45:59] Speaker 10: so bad to necessarily have those those ideas guide your beliefs.
[4:46:06] Speaker 10: I feel like, but like maybe not to be so
[4:46:09] Speaker 10: conclusive about how they guide your beliefs, like you know,
[4:46:13] Speaker 10: like being so domineering about you do?
[4:46:15] Speaker 1: You do?
[4:46:16] Speaker 10: You see that as the same way.
[4:46:19] Speaker 1: So I think the reason why it comes off from
[4:46:22] Speaker 1: your advantage point as being like domineering is because you
[4:46:25] Speaker 1: got to remember, you know, I do this three nights
[4:46:28] Speaker 1: a week, you know, five or six hours at a pop.
[4:46:29] Speaker 1: And I've been doing it for in like September, it
[4:46:34] Speaker 1: would be two years now. So like, I've heard all
[4:46:38] Speaker 1: of these arguments so many times that is very easy
[4:46:42] Speaker 1: for me just to be dismissed of it because I've
[4:46:44] Speaker 1: already given the rebuttal forty thousand times, and like when
[4:46:48] Speaker 1: I you know, when probably the first five times they
[4:46:51] Speaker 1: had the conversation, I probably would have been more charitable
[4:46:54] Speaker 1: to my interlocular But after doing it four thousand times,
[4:46:58] Speaker 1: eventually you just kind of like, oh, that's no. Obviously,
[4:47:01] Speaker 1: this is why the argument fails. You don't really put
[4:47:03] Speaker 1: any fluff around it. You just kind of get rid
[4:47:06] Speaker 1: of it so you can move on to a better argument.
[4:47:09] Speaker 10: Well, I'm not saying that you're domineering. I'm I'm saying that, Like,
[4:47:12] Speaker 10: you know, I suppose, like I don't have a problem
[4:47:17] Speaker 10: with with a with belief systems from people who don't
[4:47:21] Speaker 10: take their informed beliefs and use it to like try
[4:47:26] Speaker 10: to say, oh, this political policy is what's bests. I
[4:47:32] Speaker 10: don't know, like, would you prefer that someone does not
[4:47:39] Speaker 10: use beliefs to influence even like the smaller portions of
[4:47:43] Speaker 10: their personal lives, like you know, just on how they
[4:47:46] Speaker 10: live on a day to day basis.
[4:47:48] Speaker 1: Well, I'm okay with people doing that. I think that's natural. Like,
[4:47:51] Speaker 1: you know, we make our decisions and we form our
[4:47:54] Speaker 1: life around the things that we believe are true. So
[4:47:57] Speaker 1: if you're religious, then yeah, I would expect that you're
[4:47:59] Speaker 1: making decisions based on the religious beliefs that you think
[4:48:03] Speaker 1: are true. So I think that's natural. And I think
[4:48:05] Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons that motivates me to do
[4:48:08] Speaker 1: these live streams is because I think what people believe
[4:48:11] Speaker 1: affects their behavior, right, And so when I could wake
[4:48:14] Speaker 1: people up and say, like listen, you know, being participating
[4:48:18] Speaker 1: in religions that are dangerous and harmful and lead to
[4:48:23] Speaker 1: violence or to like Christian nationalism, like there's a better
[4:48:27] Speaker 1: way and like I could do political debates. I could say, listen,
[4:48:31] Speaker 1: here's my political position. Debate me on it. But for me,
[4:48:34] Speaker 1: you know, a lot of the things that I don't
[4:48:35] Speaker 1: like politically can be solved just by deconverting people.
[4:48:40] Speaker 10: Yee, I see, And so do you see, even deconvert
[4:48:47] Speaker 10: from people who who do whose beliefs are not like
[4:48:53] Speaker 10: even the people who kind of think like how I
[4:48:56] Speaker 10: was describing a little bit earlier, Like you know, they
[4:48:58] Speaker 10: don't necessarily believe in every literal thing of the Bible.
[4:49:00] Speaker 10: They think that maybe it comes from a source like
[4:49:03] Speaker 10: a stem. It's like it could be the Bible could
[4:49:06] Speaker 10: be full of falses or any other religious texts. Again,
[4:49:09] Speaker 10: but it could stand from some sort of source. Like
[4:49:13] Speaker 10: they're open minded to the possibility and think that it
[4:49:16] Speaker 10: sort of guides them.
[4:49:18] Speaker 1: So, like, I understand that there's a lot of people
[4:49:21] Speaker 1: who do believe that, and they're like I would classify
[4:49:25] Speaker 1: them as non dangerous religion adherents adherence. I can't say
[4:49:31] Speaker 1: the word, but anyways, there are some people who do
[4:49:34] Speaker 1: believe in particular religions that they don't take it seriously.
[4:49:38] Speaker 1: They believe a lot of it's metaphorical, non literal and
[4:49:43] Speaker 1: those people by and large aren't really a danger to society.
[4:49:46] Speaker 1: And I you know, to me, it's not really an
[4:49:48] Speaker 1: issue in fact. And there are some people that like,
[4:49:51] Speaker 1: you know, they they discovered a religion and it helped
[4:49:54] Speaker 1: their life get better, you know, and I love that
[4:49:56] Speaker 1: for them. So like, sometimes I get really nice people
[4:50:01] Speaker 1: who are like, they get up here and they don't
[4:50:03] Speaker 1: think that Christianity is literally true and that you can
[4:50:05] Speaker 1: argue it and things like that, and you know, those people,
[4:50:07] Speaker 1: to me, I live and let live. You know. I
[4:50:10] Speaker 1: do this because I live in a country full of
[4:50:12] Speaker 1: people that want to force it on my children, and
[4:50:16] Speaker 1: I want to they think it's acceptable to come and
[4:50:20] Speaker 1: like into the government and make people follow their religious rules.
[4:50:25] Speaker 1: And that's where I draw the line. Right, But if
[4:50:27] Speaker 1: if it's just a private thing that you do in
[4:50:29] Speaker 1: your house and it doesn't hurt anyone else, I don't
[4:50:32] Speaker 1: really care.
[4:50:34] Speaker 2: Okay, cool, I think that might be.
[4:50:38] Speaker 10: That might be everything on my end, actually, just the
[4:50:40] Speaker 10: questions I may. I mean, it probably wasn't that much
[4:50:42] Speaker 10: of a debate.
[4:50:43] Speaker 1: No, it's okay, we appreciate it conversation sometimes.
[4:50:49] Speaker 10: Yeah, I was just picking your brain a little bit.
[4:50:51] Speaker 10: Like and I and I like what you have to say.
[4:50:53] Speaker 10: I'll go and give you a subscribe.
[4:50:56] Speaker 1: Hey, thanks Aaron. Good to hear from you. Man, take
[4:50:58] Speaker 1: care from me. Well, Aero's nice. It sounds like he's
[4:51:05] Speaker 1: wanting to have some honest dialogue. I can appreciate some
[4:51:08] Speaker 1: honest dialogue, fierce interaction with some dialogue. Thank you so much, says,
[4:51:11] Speaker 1: Nobody wins these debates. The audience wins. Doug, damn right,
[4:51:15] Speaker 1: we do. That's my point. Listen when I'm up here
[4:51:19] Speaker 1: debating and get somebody or they're debating me like, I'm
[4:51:22] Speaker 1: not winning, and the person I'm debating is not winning.
[4:51:26] Speaker 1: The winner is the audience, the people who get to
[4:51:29] Speaker 1: come here and listen to the arguments and walk away thinking,
[4:51:33] Speaker 1: oh that was an interesting point. Oh that was another
[4:51:35] Speaker 1: interesting point. I never thought about that, right, I think
[4:51:38] Speaker 1: that's where the big value is here. It's not trying
[4:51:41] Speaker 1: to like one up the person that you're talking to,
[4:51:43] Speaker 1: not that it's not fun to do it. Carrie, thank
[4:51:45] Speaker 1: you for the ninety nine super ten says the prophecies
[4:51:47] Speaker 1: are bullshit because profits do not have and never existed. Actually,
[4:51:52] Speaker 1: that's a very good point, Carrie, and I could be
[4:51:54] Speaker 1: a hardliner on the Bible and just be like, well,
[4:51:57] Speaker 1: you have to prove that the God is true before
[4:51:59] Speaker 1: I will except that they gave prophecies. But to me,
[4:52:03] Speaker 1: I think it's funner just we can just kind of
[4:52:05] Speaker 1: presuppose that there is these prophecies given, you know, and
[4:52:09] Speaker 1: hell shit, maybe they were from the hand of God.
[4:52:11] Speaker 1: Who knows the better questions did they actually come true?
[4:52:15] Speaker 1: And for me, I think this is more entertaining, But
[4:52:17] Speaker 1: I don't. I'm totally with you, Carrie. No profit has
[4:52:20] Speaker 1: ever really existed and cases I'd love to agree with you,
[4:52:24] Speaker 1: but then we both be wrong. Yeah, that's a good one.
[4:52:26] Speaker 1: I like that one too. Actually, I don't think I've
[4:52:28] Speaker 1: ever used that one before. I've heard it quite a
[4:52:30] Speaker 1: few times, but as the first time using it, I
[4:52:32] Speaker 1: think freedom from Security says, justin the fragrance of this
[4:52:37] Speaker 1: cook pleases our stony salvation through his porous crust, it
[4:52:43] Speaker 1: is absorbed big w Also, for those who know my
[4:52:47] Speaker 1: love of cheese and pizza, You'll never guess what I
[4:52:49] Speaker 1: cook my pizza on. I've got a pizza cooking ovenstone
[4:52:53] Speaker 1: that I cook it on, and that's why my pizza
[4:52:55] Speaker 1: tastes amazing is because Doug helps every time I cook
[4:52:58] Speaker 1: it and has good to see you tonight, says Doug.
[4:53:02] Speaker 1: Cured my ed had to contact my physician. Hell yeah,
[4:53:06] Speaker 1: get rock hard for Doug. You'll perform the best you've
[4:53:09] Speaker 1: ever performed and make the best of what's around, says
[4:53:13] Speaker 1: talk to the Book of Talk about the Book of Q.
[4:53:15] Speaker 1: I don't even know what, Oh you mean the hypothetical
[4:53:20] Speaker 1: Q source. I don't know any book of Q. I
[4:53:29] Speaker 1: know the hypothetical Q source for the Gospels. Unashamed, I
[4:53:35] Speaker 1: think you a super test says Justin. Is it true
[4:53:37] Speaker 1: that Jesus drove a Christler? He drove a Chrysler and
[4:53:43] Speaker 1: the disciples had a Honda Accord because they were all
[4:53:46] Speaker 1: in one accord. Don't ask me how they got there,
[4:53:49] Speaker 1: but that's my understanding of the text.
[4:53:52] Speaker 6: And P. K.
[4:53:52] Speaker 1: Heathen says, is intro to New Testament by brown Worth read, Yes,
[4:53:57] Speaker 1: yes it is. Anything by RAYN. Browned is worth a read.
[4:54:02] Speaker 1: If you if you see a book that says Raymond
[4:54:05] Speaker 1: brown on it, just buy it and read it. He's
[4:54:07] Speaker 1: a phenomenal scholar. There's a lot of great New Testament
[4:54:11] Speaker 1: scholars that are still in the Christian like the Christian
[4:54:15] Speaker 1: camp that I would I always plug. For example, John J. Collins,
[4:54:20] Speaker 1: John J. Collins one of my favorite scholars of all time.
[4:54:23] Speaker 1: Maybe him and some others love like James Vanderkam, Klaus
[4:54:28] Speaker 1: Westerman like these are scholars that still associate as Christian,
[4:54:34] Speaker 1: but are just phenomenal in their academic work and they
[4:54:38] Speaker 1: don't let their religious beliefs cloud their judgment in academia.
[4:54:42] Speaker 1: And Jacob says full preterist, Cessatianists, Calvinists, covenant creationists, and
[4:54:47] Speaker 1: non trinitarian Here I disagree with you, but love your attitude. Well, Jacob,
[4:54:53] Speaker 1: I've talked quite a few Cesatianists Calvinists for full breads
[4:54:57] Speaker 1: before they don't last very long. I've got to do
[4:55:00] Speaker 1: is read some of the prophecies.
[4:55:02] Speaker 2: But listen, I.
[4:55:03] Speaker 1: Appreciate the super chat, I appreciate you hanging out and
[4:55:05] Speaker 1: listen into the live stream. And Johannah again says, how
[4:55:09] Speaker 1: does one get themselves excommunicated from the Catholic Church. Actually,
[4:55:12] Speaker 1: there's a lot of ways to do it. For about
[4:55:15] Speaker 1: four hundred years, one of the ways you can get excommuted,
[4:55:18] Speaker 1: sometimes killed, is by reading a book on the forbidden booklist.
[4:55:21] Speaker 1: They had a forbidden booklist called the Libroum Prohibitorium. I
[4:55:26] Speaker 1: think that's how you pronounce it. Look it up, the
[4:55:28] Speaker 1: Libroorum Prohibitorum. It's an amazing collection of books that will
[4:55:34] Speaker 1: get you excommunicated. Also, Jeram says new Watcher, love your channel.
[4:55:39] Speaker 1: I deconstructed while attending Baylor during my first degree. The
[4:55:43] Speaker 1: more Bible I read, the less I believe. Well, thank
[4:55:44] Speaker 1: you for the six sixty six kl Nero and I'm
[4:55:46] Speaker 1: with you. A lot of people deconstruct while they're getting
[4:55:52] Speaker 1: their degree. A lot of people are deconstructing as they're
[4:55:57] Speaker 1: doing professional studies of the book. And to be fair,
[4:56:00] Speaker 1: a lot of universities and seminaries do that on purpose.
[4:56:03] Speaker 1: They want to break down your belief system. They want
[4:56:05] Speaker 1: to deconstruct you, and then they hope that you reconstruct.
[4:56:09] Speaker 1: The problem is a lot of people don't reconstruct. They
[4:56:12] Speaker 1: just say, oh, this is bullshit. My one black friend,
[4:56:16] Speaker 1: great name, by the way, say shout out to YouTube punk. Well,
[4:56:21] Speaker 1: I agreed, shout out to YouTube punk definitely, and thank
[4:56:24] Speaker 1: you for the super chest and Joseph of Portland, great name,
[4:56:27] Speaker 1: by the way, thank you for the ten hour super
[4:56:28] Speaker 1: chet says, I'm all about empathy, but your cooking is cathartic.
[4:56:32] Speaker 1: Those of us who've had our lives ruined by this
[4:56:35] Speaker 1: ps need vengeance. We want vengeance. Fucking hail Doug. Well,
[4:56:41] Speaker 1: thank you so much, Joseph and I get it. I
[4:56:44] Speaker 1: understand the cathartic feeling. When you see in the powage
[4:56:47] Speaker 1: get roasted. It's like nice to watch. It feels like
[4:56:50] Speaker 1: a little bit of payback. And Carlo is gifting five
[4:56:53] Speaker 1: more Deconstruction Zone memberships, big W. Carlos, I really appreciate it.
[4:56:57] Speaker 1: And holy shit, Jonathan Miller is sending out twelve funny
[4:57:00] Speaker 1: Deconstruction Zone memberships, big big W. Let's get some w's
[4:57:04] Speaker 1: for Carlos and Jonathan in the chat, we really appreciate that.
[4:57:08] Speaker 1: That's super generous. And Jim says, Doug was the apple
[4:57:12] Speaker 1: in Eve's eye. That's why Adam punished Eve with the snake.
[4:57:18] Speaker 1: God was sick of hearing him whine about the rib
[4:57:22] Speaker 1: So fuck women broll. So this is really interesting.
[4:57:24] Speaker 2: Did you know.
[4:57:27] Speaker 1: That there's an ancient mythology about the eating of the
[4:57:32] Speaker 1: apple that came to explain why Adam had the apple?
[4:57:37] Speaker 1: Check out the eating of the apple and the Adam's
[4:57:40] Speaker 1: apple connection. There's a famous Jewish fable about how Adam
[4:57:47] Speaker 1: was struck on the neck for the situation, and so
[4:57:51] Speaker 1: rather than God putting a stone in the neck of man,
[4:57:54] Speaker 1: he put an apple in the neck of man to
[4:57:56] Speaker 1: remind them of the apple at the eight. But we
[4:57:59] Speaker 1: know the truth. It's not an apple from Yahweh. It
[4:58:02] Speaker 1: is in fact doug and women had them too. And
[4:58:06] Speaker 1: j B says, if God was real, there would not
[4:58:09] Speaker 1: be a debate about his existence at all, and having
[4:58:12] Speaker 1: the pretzel so much makes it even more likely. Well,
[4:58:15] Speaker 1: thank you for the sixty six.
[4:58:16] Speaker 2: And I agree with you.
[4:58:17] Speaker 1: If God was real, like we wouldn't be searching for
[4:58:22] Speaker 1: seven thousand years to find it. It doesn't make any
[4:58:25] Speaker 1: sense unless the God is capricious and really good at hine,
[4:58:29] Speaker 1: go seek. And Johannah says religious people must have stood
[4:58:33] Speaker 1: at the end of the line when brains were handed out. Yeah,
[4:58:36] Speaker 1: they got the leftovers, but to be fair, some of
[4:58:40] Speaker 1: it is in doctrination, all right. Two more super chats.
[4:58:43] Speaker 1: Terrence says, make sure to hit the like button. Well,
[4:58:45] Speaker 1: thank you Terrence so much for the five dollars Aussie
[4:58:49] Speaker 1: chat and for hitting that like button. Guys, crucify the
[4:58:52] Speaker 1: like button. That's how you get this thing pushed out
[4:58:55] Speaker 1: into the algorithm. And I certainly appreciate it. Nail the
[4:58:59] Speaker 1: like button. And Johnah says, how do I let them
[4:59:02] Speaker 1: know I read one of the forbidden books? Well, that's
[4:59:06] Speaker 1: the thing, is like, somebody has to turn you in typically,
[4:59:09] Speaker 1: so getting excommunicated for reading a forbidden book typically was
[4:59:13] Speaker 1: the result of somebody turning you into the authorities, and
[4:59:17] Speaker 1: then the authorities having to we'll say more or less
[4:59:21] Speaker 1: interrogate you, if you know what I mean. All right,
[4:59:24] Speaker 1: we'll try to bring our next guest in. I think
[4:59:28] Speaker 1: I finally got caught up on all the superchats. Sorry
[4:59:30] Speaker 1: so much that it took me so long. I really
[4:59:32] Speaker 1: appreciate all the superchats, but the long conversations sometimes end
[4:59:36] Speaker 1: up in getting backed up. I apologize if some of
[4:59:40] Speaker 1: them didn't get read in a timely manner. Certainly is
[4:59:43] Speaker 1: not it was not my intention, but it you know,
[4:59:47] Speaker 1: it is what it is. All right, Ellien is trying
[4:59:51] Speaker 1: for a fourth time, and he's been here so long.
[4:59:54] Speaker 1: I want to give him the opportunity to get in. Ellien,
[4:59:57] Speaker 1: we want to talk to you. Can you get your
[5:00:02] Speaker 1: technology working, Ellie, and we still cannot hear you. I
[5:00:08] Speaker 1: don't think you're I don't think your headphones work, my friend,
[5:00:17] Speaker 1: I can't read lips either, And what can you guys
[5:00:20] Speaker 1: read lips? Oh? Check my phone? Your phone is in
[5:00:31] Speaker 1: the messages? Is he trying to ask me on a date? Listen?
[5:00:39] Speaker 1: I don't know if you're my type, but I mean,
[5:00:41] Speaker 1: if you do you like seafood, I listen, if you
[5:00:46] Speaker 1: want to go and do a lobster dinner, I'll go
[5:00:49] Speaker 1: out with you. I'm just saying, I mean, you look
[5:00:52] Speaker 1: a little young. He's saying, access the phone. What do
[5:00:57] Speaker 1: you mean? What does it mean to access the phone?
[5:01:00] Speaker 1: I don't know what that means? My phone or his phone.
[5:01:06] Speaker 1: I've got, I got both of the devices on the screen.
[5:01:09] Speaker 1: I don't know.
[5:01:10] Speaker 2: I don't know what he's doing.
[5:01:12] Speaker 1: This is crazy. I've never seen so much. I've never
[5:01:15] Speaker 1: seen so much. Uh, he's writing me a message. Now
[5:01:19] Speaker 1: we'll see what happens. I'm I'm intrigued. I'm so confused
[5:01:26] Speaker 1: about what's happening. I really want to hear what he
[5:01:28] Speaker 1: has to say. All right, all right, let me let
[5:01:33] Speaker 1: me blow this up real quick. I want to be
[5:01:35] Speaker 1: able to read this. I'm gonna make the screen much
[5:01:37] Speaker 1: bigger for a second, all right, And he says, I'm
[5:01:46] Speaker 1: gonna talk through my phone and listen through my iPad. Yeah,
[5:01:49] Speaker 1: you're welcome to do that. But I I have both
[5:01:53] Speaker 1: your devices on the screen and we still can't hear you.
[5:01:57] Speaker 1: One of them has to have a working microphone, all right,
[5:02:04] Speaker 1: See what it says my earpiece. Yeah, I know they're Look,
[5:02:10] Speaker 1: they're both right here. They're both on the screen right now,
[5:02:13] Speaker 1: both of them. They're both up here. We can't hear you.
[5:02:19] Speaker 1: Neither one of them are muted. Your technology just doesn't work, buddy,
[5:02:26] Speaker 1: You got to you gotta download TikTok or get a
[5:02:28] Speaker 1: better set of earphones or something. I feel so bad
[5:02:33] Speaker 1: because he's been waiting so long to get up here,
[5:02:35] Speaker 1: Like I want to give the young man a chance
[5:02:37] Speaker 1: to talk to us, like he's really trying. I just
[5:02:41] Speaker 1: the technology doesn't work. And you, yeah, read is asking
[5:02:45] Speaker 1: if he's eighteen. He might be a day past eighteen,
[5:02:48] Speaker 1: just one day I'd give him. I show right now
[5:02:54] Speaker 1: that your microphone is plugged in, but there's just no
[5:02:57] Speaker 1: audio coming from it. Are you sure that those that
[5:03:02] Speaker 1: thing works? Does your phone have internet access?
[5:03:12] Speaker 9: Oh sorry, sorry?
[5:03:20] Speaker 1: All right, you just spoke and we heard you for
[5:03:23] Speaker 1: a second because it came through the iPad.
[5:03:29] Speaker 9: Can you hear me?
[5:03:29] Speaker 1: I can hear you a little bit?
[5:03:33] Speaker 4: Okay?
[5:03:33] Speaker 2: Perfect?
[5:03:34] Speaker 9: Can you hear me? Like pretty okay?
[5:03:37] Speaker 1: A little bit?
[5:03:38] Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead and talking.
[5:03:38] Speaker 1: To the mic?
[5:03:41] Speaker 9: Would this be okay to talk with you?
[5:03:43] Speaker 1: Yes, whatever you're doing, don't, don't move, don't breathe, don't sneeze.
[5:03:49] Speaker 11: I won't, I won't.
[5:03:52] Speaker 9: You can listen to that? Okay? Oh wait, I have
[5:03:56] Speaker 9: to turn my that's sorry, Emma.
[5:03:58] Speaker 1: Can you want so whatever you're doing right now works.
[5:04:05] Speaker 9: Perfect.
[5:04:09] Speaker 1: I mean the connection is a little bit choppy, but
[5:04:10] Speaker 1: I think we'll get through it and cut out your audio?
[5:04:13] Speaker 1: Cutout again? Oh you're back.
[5:04:21] Speaker 9: Can you hear me?
[5:04:22] Speaker 1: I heard you for a second, then it cut out.
[5:04:35] Speaker 1: Ellie and Buddy listen. Send me send me a DM
[5:04:38] Speaker 1: My email is in my profile on YouTube. Send me email.
[5:04:43] Speaker 1: I will personally. I will personally amazon you headphones. I
[5:04:53] Speaker 1: think you've got two problems. I think the first problem
[5:04:55] Speaker 1: is your technology. I think the second problem is your
[5:04:57] Speaker 1: internet connection. Because your internet connection is really bad. All right, Ellien,
[5:05:06] Speaker 1: I don't think it's gonna work. Listen, just I'm gonna
[5:05:11] Speaker 1: I gotta move on to the next guest. But ellien,
[5:05:13] Speaker 1: do this, Send send me a message, email.
[5:05:17] Speaker 2: Me my good.
[5:05:28] Speaker 9: Hello, Hello, Hello.
[5:05:31] Speaker 1: Oh this is interesting. I can't now he's stuck. Yeah,
[5:05:35] Speaker 1: his connection is really bad. Okay, okay, we're gonna recycle that.
[5:05:43] Speaker 1: I have no idea what's going on over there. I'm
[5:05:45] Speaker 1: more than happy to buy a working piece of equipment.
[5:05:51] Speaker 1: I don't think uh headphones are too hard to get
[5:05:54] Speaker 1: ahold of all right, so we're gonna grab We'll get
[5:05:56] Speaker 1: Luke in here from the TikTok Q. Sorry about the
[5:05:59] Speaker 1: delay that guys. Well, Luke's not Luke's not coming in. Well,
[5:06:03] Speaker 1: let's try to get Zach. Oh it says Luke's connected. Now,
[5:06:12] Speaker 1: oh shit, Zach, how you doing?
[5:06:17] Speaker 4: Yo?
[5:06:19] Speaker 2: Zach?
[5:06:19] Speaker 1: Are you at least eighteen? And are you a believer?
[5:06:22] Speaker 4: Yeah?
[5:06:23] Speaker 1: I am a believer?
[5:06:24] Speaker 5: Cool?
[5:06:25] Speaker 1: And are you overteen? I no, sorry, Bud, gotta be
[5:06:30] Speaker 1: at least eighteen TikTok rules of terms of service? All right,
[5:06:35] Speaker 1: cheers man, Sorry about that.
[5:06:38] Speaker 4: It is what it is.
[5:06:39] Speaker 1: All right, Luke came back. Let's see if Luke can
[5:06:41] Speaker 1: connect this time. I don't know if if it was
[5:06:43] Speaker 1: a bad connection last time. All right, Luke, what does
[5:06:46] Speaker 1: I do? Luke?
[5:06:47] Speaker 2: O car, Hey, how's it going good?
[5:06:49] Speaker 1: How are you doing?
[5:06:51] Speaker 2: Oh?
[5:06:51] Speaker 5: I'm doing really good.
[5:06:53] Speaker 1: Just uh.
[5:06:55] Speaker 5: You were talking earlier about hermeneutics mm hm away different
[5:07:00] Speaker 5: ways to interpret scripture. Now, how do you choose which
[5:07:04] Speaker 5: hermaeutic to take.
[5:07:06] Speaker 1: My hermaeutic is that words have meanings, and in order
[5:07:10] Speaker 1: for words to change their meanings, I would need a
[5:07:12] Speaker 1: pretty substantial reason to believe that. So when it the
[5:07:15] Speaker 1: Old Testament or the Hebrew Scriptures says that the Israelites
[5:07:19] Speaker 1: are going to be brought back from the land of
[5:07:20] Speaker 1: the enemy, from the land of the North, and they're
[5:07:22] Speaker 1: going to live in their land and peace and security,
[5:07:25] Speaker 1: the same land that was promised to their ancestors. I
[5:07:28] Speaker 1: take all those words to mean exactly what those words mean.
[5:07:32] Speaker 5: Okay, But but you're you're reading something that's not of God.
[5:07:39] Speaker 5: It's not God.
[5:07:41] Speaker 1: Well, I agree, yes, the Bible God, because God is
[5:07:45] Speaker 1: who God is, right, I agree, yes, it's man's interpretation
[5:07:49] Speaker 1: of God.
[5:07:51] Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're an atheist.
[5:07:54] Speaker 5: There is no perfect idea like God.
[5:07:57] Speaker 1: Luke, are you an atheist? Write a book?
[5:08:00] Speaker 5: What's that.
[5:08:01] Speaker 1: Are you an atheist? Uh No, I'm a I'm a reconstructionist, okay.
[5:08:07] Speaker 1: And you believe that the Bible is true or not?
[5:08:11] Speaker 2: I do to an extent, okay.
[5:08:13] Speaker 1: And how do you determine which parts are true and
[5:08:15] Speaker 1: which ones are not?
[5:08:17] Speaker 8: Well?
[5:08:17] Speaker 5: I use Jesus as my hermaeudic, as he he said
[5:08:22] Speaker 5: to use, So what I could say?
[5:08:24] Speaker 1: I use Moses as my hermaeneudic, which means that Jesus
[5:08:27] Speaker 1: is wrong.
[5:08:28] Speaker 5: So what Yeah?
[5:08:29] Speaker 1: But with Moses as your hermaeudic, then you have King
[5:08:32] Speaker 1: David saying.
[5:08:34] Speaker 5: I didn't want sacrifices.
[5:08:37] Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
[5:08:37] Speaker 1: King David does suggest that yahweh would prefer obedience rather
[5:08:42] Speaker 1: than sacrifice.
[5:08:43] Speaker 2: You know why that is?
[5:08:45] Speaker 1: Although King David didn't say that that's.
[5:08:46] Speaker 5: In that's in the Psalms than King David wrote that.
[5:08:51] Speaker 1: He said something similar to.
[5:08:54] Speaker 5: Three.
[5:08:55] Speaker 1: I think it's also in Josea six. Is there isn't
[5:08:58] Speaker 1: there one in Josea six that's very similar to that?
[5:09:01] Speaker 1: Let me yeah, let me check. He says, I desire mercy,
[5:09:06] Speaker 1: not sacrifice. That's the one I was looking for. He said,
[5:09:08] Speaker 1: I desire not sacrifice. And the one from David was
[5:09:13] Speaker 1: was the one you were saying.
[5:09:15] Speaker 5: But no, mercy, mercy from sacrifice. That's that's perfect mercy,
[5:09:20] Speaker 5: not sacrifice.
[5:09:22] Speaker 1: Yeah, he would prefer mercy not sacrifice.
[5:09:25] Speaker 5: Yeah, mercy is intrinsic to who God is.
[5:09:30] Speaker 1: But Joseiah is saying the same thing that that David
[5:09:34] Speaker 1: is saying. Right, he's saying, and it is going against
[5:09:37] Speaker 1: what what Moses had said. It doesn't. So what David
[5:09:41] Speaker 1: and Josea are suggesting is that God would prefer people
[5:09:45] Speaker 1: to behave the right way rather than have to go
[5:09:49] Speaker 1: back and then offer since sacrifice for the bad behavior.
[5:09:52] Speaker 1: That's like if my child, if I said, listen, if
[5:09:55] Speaker 1: you whatever, if you eat the candy, I gotta you know,
[5:09:59] Speaker 1: put you in the corner for five minutes. I don't
[5:10:01] Speaker 1: want to punish my child. I would prefer obedience rather
[5:10:04] Speaker 1: than punishment. Yeah, but you will always forgive your kid.
[5:10:10] Speaker 5: How much more will God forgive us?
[5:10:12] Speaker 1: Well, he wouldn't if he had to like kill an
[5:10:15] Speaker 1: innocent person.
[5:10:17] Speaker 5: Oh he didn't.
[5:10:18] Speaker 1: That's that's us. We killed God. No, he killed him
[5:10:21] Speaker 1: Ephesians chapter one. It was already planned from the foundation
[5:10:25] Speaker 1: of the earth. Yeah, what is the foundation of the world?
[5:10:29] Speaker 1: What he is his sacrifice speaking to before the world
[5:10:33] Speaker 1: was even created. God already knew that he was going
[5:10:35] Speaker 1: to have to kill Jesus.
[5:10:38] Speaker 5: Yes, he didn't know that.
[5:10:40] Speaker 1: Did he have to kill Jesus or did he choose
[5:10:42] Speaker 1: to do it? No, Jesus came and we killed him.
[5:10:46] Speaker 1: God came to and got killed. It's not God. He
[5:10:49] Speaker 1: knew that.
[5:10:49] Speaker 5: What God happened.
[5:10:50] Speaker 1: God planned it. He designed it.
[5:10:53] Speaker 5: He knew that was going to happen.
[5:10:55] Speaker 1: He designed it. It was destined. Jesus even agreed, Yeah,
[5:11:00] Speaker 1: he says. Jesus says that Judas was destined to betray him. Yeah, okay,
[5:11:08] Speaker 1: I mean so even so it was God's plan to
[5:11:12] Speaker 1: have Jesus sacrifice, wasn't it? Uh?
[5:11:15] Speaker 4: Not his?
[5:11:17] Speaker 5: Not his plan.
[5:11:18] Speaker 1: He knew it was that.
[5:11:19] Speaker 5: He's well, he is all knowing what what? Who is God?
[5:11:25] Speaker 1: All knowing beings can't change their mind. He ever planted
[5:11:28] Speaker 1: or he didn't.
[5:11:30] Speaker 5: Yeah, he didn't change his mind.
[5:11:32] Speaker 1: That means it was planned.
[5:11:35] Speaker 2: Yeah it was.
[5:11:37] Speaker 1: I agree, Okay, so it was planned. He knew he
[5:11:40] Speaker 1: was going to do it. The question is does he
[5:11:42] Speaker 1: have to do it or could he just forgive people.
[5:11:46] Speaker 5: He can just forgive people.
[5:11:48] Speaker 1: That means that means that means killing Jesus was arbitrary
[5:11:52] Speaker 1: and needless.
[5:11:54] Speaker 2: No, it was.
[5:11:55] Speaker 5: It was to show that in in amongst the very
[5:11:59] Speaker 5: foundation of the world. The foundation of the world refers
[5:12:02] Speaker 5: to Cain and Abel.
[5:12:04] Speaker 1: What's the first The foundation of the world is not Cannonable?
[5:12:08] Speaker 2: No, no, no, it is.
[5:12:10] Speaker 5: That's what the Bible is dealing against. Okay, after the
[5:12:13] Speaker 5: first sin or after the garden of Eden? What is
[5:12:17] Speaker 5: the first sin in the Bible?
[5:12:20] Speaker 1: The Canaanabel incident.
[5:12:22] Speaker 5: Canaan Abel, that's right, And that was the foundation of
[5:12:26] Speaker 5: the world.
[5:12:26] Speaker 1: No, it was not. The foundation of the world is
[5:12:29] Speaker 1: when it was created, when God laid its foundation the
[5:12:32] Speaker 1: Book of Job. Were you there when I laid the
[5:12:35] Speaker 1: foundations of the world.
[5:12:37] Speaker 5: I understand that, But it's your hermineutic you keep forgetting about.
[5:12:43] Speaker 2: Again.
[5:12:43] Speaker 1: My hermineutic is that words mean words. Your herminutic is
[5:12:47] Speaker 1: that you don't like what words mean.
[5:12:49] Speaker 15: No.
[5:12:49] Speaker 5: I know what words mean, but I don't think in
[5:12:51] Speaker 5: order to interpret them.
[5:12:53] Speaker 1: Because you're saying that the word foundation refers to canaan Abel,
[5:12:57] Speaker 1: and the only hermaeudic that you can use is Jesus.
[5:13:01] Speaker 2: And you'd be wrong.
[5:13:02] Speaker 1: I say, the only herminude that you can use to
[5:13:04] Speaker 1: read the Old Testament is a hermonudict that is faithful
[5:13:07] Speaker 1: to what the Old Testament or the Hebrew Scriptures actually says.
[5:13:10] Speaker 1: I reject the New Testament's interpretation of the New Testament
[5:13:14] Speaker 1: for the same reason that you reject the interpretation of
[5:13:16] Speaker 1: the New Testament through the Book of Mormon. I I
[5:13:21] Speaker 1: agree with the Luke are you Mormon? I don't reject
[5:13:24] Speaker 1: the New Testament. Luke, are you Mormon?
[5:13:26] Speaker 15: No?
[5:13:27] Speaker 5: I'm not Mormon.
[5:13:27] Speaker 1: Okay, well, you you have to interpret the New Testament
[5:13:30] Speaker 1: through the Book of Mormon. That's the proper hermaudic.
[5:13:34] Speaker 5: Uh whatever you want to believe, like.
[5:13:38] Speaker 2: Prove me wrong, so it's true.
[5:13:43] Speaker 1: See how sill it is when you demand that the
[5:13:46] Speaker 1: only appropriate hermaeudic is the one that you like best.
[5:13:48] Speaker 1: It's a dumb argument. It's silly.
[5:13:50] Speaker 5: It's the one that so are we.
[5:13:52] Speaker 2: Going to take.
[5:13:52] Speaker 1: It's just it's just the one that it's just the
[5:13:55] Speaker 1: one that you like best.
[5:13:57] Speaker 5: Yeah, No, it's not what I like best.
[5:13:59] Speaker 1: It's what Jesus revealed is but he didn't reveal anything.
[5:14:03] Speaker 1: He was a liar in a fraud.
[5:14:05] Speaker 5: What he wasn't a liar in fraud.
[5:14:07] Speaker 1: He was a liar in a fraud. He said He's
[5:14:08] Speaker 1: going to come back with in the lifetime of the
[5:14:10] Speaker 1: disciples and judge mankind. And he didn't. He did not.
[5:14:14] Speaker 1: He is he's with you.
[5:14:15] Speaker 2: No, he's not. Yes, he is, No, he's not.
[5:14:18] Speaker 5: Okay, okay, do you have love in you?
[5:14:21] Speaker 1: Is? Love?
[5:14:22] Speaker 2: Is not Jesus.
[5:14:23] Speaker 1: You're not even close.
[5:14:25] Speaker 5: You're not even close in those second first John four eight.
[5:14:29] Speaker 1: You're not even close to the ballpark. Before you ramble
[5:14:31] Speaker 1: on about some woo woo shit on love, let's actually
[5:14:34] Speaker 1: read the passage that we were getting ready to quote
[5:14:37] Speaker 1: Matthew sixteen twenty seven through twenty eight. So for the
[5:14:40] Speaker 1: Son of Man is to come with his angels and
[5:14:42] Speaker 1: the glory of his father, then he will repay everybody
[5:14:44] Speaker 1: for what has been done. Truly, I tell you there
[5:14:46] Speaker 1: are some standing here who will not taste death before
[5:14:49] Speaker 1: they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.
[5:14:51] Speaker 1: That's a lie that didn't happen. It's never gonna happen,
[5:14:55] Speaker 1: because Jesus is a false prophet. The only prophecy he
[5:14:58] Speaker 1: ever fulfilled was Dudun thirteen when God said he would
[5:15:01] Speaker 1: send false prophets. And Luke doesn't know he's he's muted.
[5:15:08] Speaker 1: He's probably still yapping I since this is his first
[5:15:11] Speaker 1: time on TikTok, because two minutes of dialogue started the
[5:15:16] Speaker 1: crash out session.
[5:15:18] Speaker 5: Oh sorry, I didn't realize I was muted, dude.
[5:15:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, I figured. Okay. So Matthew sixteen, Jesus clearly states
[5:15:25] Speaker 1: that he's going to be coming back before all of
[5:15:27] Speaker 1: his disciples die.
[5:15:30] Speaker 5: Yes, and he did? He did not, Oh he didn't.
[5:15:35] Speaker 1: It says he's going to come back with the angels
[5:15:37] Speaker 1: and the glory of his father and repay everybody for
[5:15:39] Speaker 1: what's been done. They says, truly, I tell you there's
[5:15:42] Speaker 1: some standing here who will not taste death before they
[5:15:44] Speaker 1: see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. Which
[5:15:47] Speaker 1: didn't happen while the disciples were alive.
[5:15:50] Speaker 5: Why why, Well, I don't know. Jesus was talking about
[5:15:56] Speaker 5: the destruction of the temple.
[5:15:58] Speaker 1: He certainly was not that right, not even close.
[5:16:01] Speaker 5: Oh he wasn't.
[5:16:02] Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
[5:16:03] Speaker 1: Did it say was here?
[5:16:03] Speaker 5: He wasn't talking about over?
[5:16:05] Speaker 1: Does it say anything? Does it say anything about a temple?
[5:16:08] Speaker 1: In Matthew sixteen. It says about the temple in Matthew
[5:16:14] Speaker 1: twenty Matthew twenty four, And this is this is not
[5:16:17] Speaker 1: the same passage. This doesn't say anything about temple. And
[5:16:20] Speaker 1: Matthew twenty four is going to cook he even worse
[5:16:22] Speaker 1: than Matthew sixteen. No, it's it's definitely not. It's an interpretation, right.
[5:16:30] Speaker 2: No, it's not.
[5:16:31] Speaker 1: I promise you when you when you actually get a
[5:16:33] Speaker 1: little bit of focus and address. Matthew sixteen will then
[5:16:36] Speaker 1: move to Matthew twenty four. Can we first go to
[5:16:39] Speaker 1: I need you, I need you, I need you to
[5:16:42] Speaker 1: I need you to focus. Where in Matthew sixteen right now?
[5:16:47] Speaker 1: And what does it say is going to happen? The
[5:16:50] Speaker 1: son of Man will come and I with who he's
[5:16:52] Speaker 1: already with, who's already look with who?
[5:16:55] Speaker 2: What with? Who?
[5:16:58] Speaker 5: With with this angel?
[5:17:00] Speaker 1: And do what?
[5:17:04] Speaker 2: Sorry? I need glasses.
[5:17:14] Speaker 5: Sorry.
[5:17:17] Speaker 1: Uh.
[5:17:19] Speaker 2: And then he went, we'll repay.
[5:17:20] Speaker 5: Everyone for what they have done.
[5:17:22] Speaker 1: Okay, did he do any of that?
[5:17:25] Speaker 2: But he he is in the process of luke is
[5:17:28] Speaker 2: He answered, no question, did he do any of that? Yeah,
[5:17:31] Speaker 2: all of that is done.
[5:17:33] Speaker 1: Okay, Then did show me show me where that happened?
[5:17:35] Speaker 1: When did that happen? That happened at the destruction of
[5:17:39] Speaker 1: the temple? No it didn't, Oh it didn't.
[5:17:44] Speaker 5: So now you don't now you now you're not uh like,
[5:17:49] Speaker 5: you're not letting me get there.
[5:17:51] Speaker 2: Well, you're just wrong.
[5:17:53] Speaker 1: Oh why Jesus didn't come back when the tumble was destroyed?
[5:17:57] Speaker 2: Why not?
[5:17:58] Speaker 1: Okay, proved proved to me that in seventy a D.
[5:18:01] Speaker 1: Jesus came back and did Matthew sixteen twenty seven. Well,
[5:18:06] Speaker 1: it all depends on who you see as God, and
[5:18:09] Speaker 1: is God love?
[5:18:10] Speaker 5: You already rejected that in this already.
[5:18:13] Speaker 1: So it is more words don't mean words.
[5:18:16] Speaker 5: No, no, no, that is that's exactly just the vibes.
[5:18:19] Speaker 5: Bro it's not a vibes, it's it's mercy.
[5:18:24] Speaker 1: It sounds like a vibe to me. I want to
[5:18:25] Speaker 1: know the evidence that Jesus came back in seventy a d.
[5:18:30] Speaker 1: And then judged mankind.
[5:18:32] Speaker 2: He's like.
[5:18:36] Speaker 1: God is with us, that is what that's not adorable?
[5:18:41] Speaker 1: That that is an adorable claim. That has nothing to
[5:18:43] Speaker 1: do with Jesus coming back with all of the angels
[5:18:45] Speaker 1: to repay humanity.
[5:18:48] Speaker 5: So what do you believe about that?
[5:18:51] Speaker 1: He pays it can actually focus, He tells you what
[5:18:55] Speaker 1: to believe. It's Matthew, chapter twenty five. He says the
[5:18:58] Speaker 1: exact same thing in Matthew twenty five, thirty one. He
[5:19:02] Speaker 1: talks about when he comes with the angels and the
[5:19:04] Speaker 1: glory of the Father. What's going to happen? He says,
[5:19:07] Speaker 1: when the Son of Man comes in his glory and
[5:19:09] Speaker 1: all the angels with him, then he will sit on
[5:19:11] Speaker 1: the throne of his glory, and all the nations will
[5:19:13] Speaker 1: be gathered before him, and he will separate people one
[5:19:15] Speaker 1: from another, as a shepherd separates sheep from the goats.
[5:19:19] Speaker 1: That's what's going to happen when he comes in the clouds.
[5:19:22] Speaker 5: Who is what is his glory?
[5:19:27] Speaker 2: Glory?
[5:19:29] Speaker 1: It's the glory of the Father that's given to him.
[5:19:31] Speaker 1: According to theoretically Daniel chapter seven, it is him on
[5:19:36] Speaker 1: the cross. It's not self sacrificing love, no forgiveness, not
[5:19:41] Speaker 1: even clothes. What it says is that he's going to
[5:19:43] Speaker 1: come with the angels and the glory, and he's going
[5:19:47] Speaker 1: to judge humanity, That's what it says.
[5:19:50] Speaker 5: And what is his judgment.
[5:19:52] Speaker 1: His judgment is going to be casting people into hell.
[5:19:56] Speaker 2: What where do you get that?
[5:19:58] Speaker 1: The same very first he was say to those on
[5:20:00] Speaker 1: his left, you who are a cursed apartment for me,
[5:20:03] Speaker 1: and go into the eternal fire. Prepared for the Devil
[5:20:05] Speaker 1: and his Angels. Have you read this book? Imagine imagine
[5:20:11] Speaker 1: coming up here talking about herma udics and you don't
[5:20:14] Speaker 1: even know what's in the book.
[5:20:15] Speaker 5: This is embarrassing. I know it's in the book.
[5:20:18] Speaker 1: So Luke, I want to I want to help you
[5:20:20] Speaker 1: out when you come into when you come into people's
[5:20:23] Speaker 1: live streams, when you've brought up Luke, when you come
[5:20:26] Speaker 1: into people's live streams, here's what you should do to
[5:20:29] Speaker 1: not get embarrassed. One, don't chirp in the comments pretending
[5:20:33] Speaker 1: that you know a whole lot talking about the host. Two,
[5:20:36] Speaker 1: don't get into the guest box and then immediately start
[5:20:39] Speaker 1: saying nonsense like my hermaeudic is bad and you you know,
[5:20:42] Speaker 1: I have to read things for your lens. When you
[5:20:45] Speaker 1: come in with that type of like gusto and like
[5:20:52] Speaker 1: just that level of cognitive dissonance and dunning Kruger effect,
[5:20:56] Speaker 1: it makes you look silly when you can't actually defend
[5:20:59] Speaker 1: your claims. If you came into my stream being kind
[5:21:03] Speaker 1: and humble and having a legitimate conversation with me, not
[5:21:06] Speaker 1: over talking me, not saying words don't mean words, then
[5:21:10] Speaker 1: I would be very charitable to everything that you're saying.
[5:21:13] Speaker 1: But you came in and you immediately started chirping in
[5:21:16] Speaker 1: the comments and immediately started the conversation by criticizing my
[5:21:21] Speaker 1: hermeneutic while not being able to support your hermaudic And
[5:21:25] Speaker 1: now I'm going to give you a hard time because
[5:21:28] Speaker 1: you're on my live stream acting like a child, and
[5:21:31] Speaker 1: that's how things work here. Sorry, dude, if you if
[5:21:34] Speaker 1: you feel the need to do that, go ahead. I'll
[5:21:37] Speaker 1: be that punching bag for you.
[5:21:39] Speaker 2: You're not a victim here.
[5:21:39] Speaker 1: You started it.
[5:21:41] Speaker 2: No, sorry, Yeah, you came in.
[5:21:44] Speaker 1: You came in behaving like a clown, and now you're
[5:21:46] Speaker 1: getting clowned. I'm not acting like a clown.
[5:21:50] Speaker 5: You are like you are stepping away from the conversation
[5:21:54] Speaker 5: by not letting me complete.
[5:21:57] Speaker 1: The first thing that I say. You jump on and
[5:22:01] Speaker 1: with a faulty understanding of what hell is. No, it's
[5:22:04] Speaker 1: not a faulty understanding. You just keep assuming what I
[5:22:10] Speaker 1: didn't say, what hell was. I didn't say anything about
[5:22:12] Speaker 1: what hell was. You are assuming, Luke, You're assuming you
[5:22:17] Speaker 1: know what's in my head. I never told you one
[5:22:19] Speaker 1: thing that I knew about how all I said is
[5:22:21] Speaker 1: that in the judgment Jesus is sending people to hell. Yeah,
[5:22:26] Speaker 1: I didn't tell you what it was. I didn't tell
[5:22:27] Speaker 1: you for how long.
[5:22:28] Speaker 2: I didn't tell you what happened there.
[5:22:30] Speaker 1: All I said is that when Jesus comes back with
[5:22:32] Speaker 1: the glory of his father and the angels with him,
[5:22:35] Speaker 1: he's coming back to judge humanity, some of them to
[5:22:38] Speaker 1: everlasting shame and contempt, and some of them to paradise.
[5:22:42] Speaker 5: Okay, so what do you believe about the pen or
[5:22:46] Speaker 5: the sheep and the ghast? Do you think you are
[5:22:49] Speaker 5: a sheep or a goat?
[5:22:51] Speaker 2: Neither.
[5:22:52] Speaker 1: I think nobody is a sheep nor a goat. I
[5:22:54] Speaker 1: think this is a really silly mythology. Yeah, I totally
[5:22:58] Speaker 1: agree to boil one per down to one sheep or
[5:23:01] Speaker 1: one goat.
[5:23:02] Speaker 5: That's stupid.
[5:23:03] Speaker 2: I know that you're the book is stupid.
[5:23:06] Speaker 1: The book, the book.
[5:23:07] Speaker 2: The book is the one that said it, not me. Yeah, yeah,
[5:23:10] Speaker 2: I know.
[5:23:11] Speaker 1: But that understanding of it is is is faulty because you.
[5:23:15] Speaker 2: Were I didn't.
[5:23:16] Speaker 1: I didn't give you the understanding of it. I just
[5:23:18] Speaker 1: told you what the book says. The book says that
[5:23:19] Speaker 1: Jesus is going to judge people. Yeah, I didn't give
[5:23:22] Speaker 1: you the criteria. I didn't tell you what happened after
[5:23:26] Speaker 1: he sent them. The hell, I didn't do any of that.
[5:23:28] Speaker 1: You keep assuming positions that I hold. You don't even
[5:23:31] Speaker 1: know what my positions are. I'm just it's like it's
[5:23:36] Speaker 1: like you're arguing. It's like you're arguing against the person.
[5:23:40] Speaker 1: It's like you're arguing against a person that you want
[5:23:43] Speaker 1: to be up here, not the person actually is up here.
[5:23:47] Speaker 5: No, no, no, you're not responding to what I'm saying.
[5:23:51] Speaker 1: I literally directly responded to what you're saying.
[5:23:54] Speaker 5: No, you're you're rejecting it. Every time I speak, you're
[5:23:58] Speaker 5: you're saying, oh you're I mean.
[5:23:59] Speaker 1: Every time you say something silly, yeah, I tell you
[5:24:01] Speaker 1: that it's silly.
[5:24:03] Speaker 2: Yeah, But you're not.
[5:24:06] Speaker 5: That's not listening.
[5:24:07] Speaker 2: You're you're rege is listening.
[5:24:09] Speaker 1: When I respond to the exact thing that left your mouth,
[5:24:13] Speaker 1: that means I heard it leave your mouth. I was
[5:24:15] Speaker 1: listening to the words that came out of your mouth.
[5:24:19] Speaker 5: Okay, let's go to the pen. Are you a pen
[5:24:25] Speaker 5: of sheep and goats? In your day?
[5:24:27] Speaker 1: Your other your other guest that was up here, he
[5:24:32] Speaker 1: he caught onto it a little bit that during your day,
[5:24:35] Speaker 1: if you are good and merciful and loving. That is good.
[5:24:41] Speaker 1: I have no interest in preaching tonight. All right, well, Luke,
[5:24:45] Speaker 1: you came in for a couple of minutes and you
[5:24:47] Speaker 1: give it your best shot. Unfortunately it was an embarrassment.
[5:24:50] Speaker 1: I don't want to hear you preach to me at
[5:24:52] Speaker 1: one twenty five in the morning. You need to get medication. Sorry,
[5:24:57] Speaker 1: thought there is to it. You can't focus. You've got
[5:25:00] Speaker 1: adult ADHD. There's nothing wrong with it. A lot of
[5:25:02] Speaker 1: people have it. You've got it to go get medication.
[5:25:06] Speaker 1: You completely lack a focus for conversation. I hope this
[5:25:09] Speaker 1: is how all your conversations go in your personal life. Also,
[5:25:14] Speaker 1: Jay Best, thank you so much for the you find out.
[5:25:16] Speaker 1: Our super chat says God is an atheist. He is
[5:25:19] Speaker 1: not convinced the other gods in the world exists. Hail Doug,
[5:25:21] Speaker 1: the only one we can see for ourselves. Hail Doug
[5:25:24] Speaker 1: and Sharon Stone. The gods that you know exist, They're
[5:25:27] Speaker 1: right here, They're in front of your face. You know
[5:25:30] Speaker 1: that Doug and Sharon Stone exist. There's no doubt about that.
[5:25:34] Speaker 1: This other god, this yahweh character, this Jesus character, where
[5:25:38] Speaker 1: are they? Can you show them? To me, I don't
[5:25:40] Speaker 1: see them. I don't think so at all. Also, match
[5:25:44] Speaker 1: Energy again says the notes were like Matt Damon on
[5:25:47] Speaker 1: the Martian. Wait those notes, those notes were like Matt
[5:25:52] Speaker 1: Damon on the Margin. Guys, I literally just saw that
[5:25:57] Speaker 1: movie like a couple of weeks ago. I waited that
[5:25:59] Speaker 1: long to watch it. I never get around to watching movies.
[5:26:02] Speaker 1: That was a good movie though, But yeah, I agree.
[5:26:07] Speaker 1: And Joseph thank you for the five hours, super thanks.
[5:26:09] Speaker 1: I appreciate it. And Aaron said, thank you for the
[5:26:11] Speaker 1: nice discussion. Have you seen The Sunset Limited? I think
[5:26:15] Speaker 1: it provides interesting, although exaggerated perspectives of faith. I've not
[5:26:19] Speaker 1: seen it. Now I kind of want to see it
[5:26:23] Speaker 1: now that you brought it up. Let me see. I'm
[5:26:26] Speaker 1: gonna look it up. The sun Set Limited. It looks
[5:26:32] Speaker 1: like a movie.
[5:26:33] Speaker 2: Who's in it?
[5:26:34] Speaker 1: Who's in the movie? There's twenty eleven? Said Samuel L. Jackson. Shit, now,
[5:26:42] Speaker 1: I kind of want to see it.
[5:26:43] Speaker 15: You know.
[5:26:43] Speaker 1: The only like like quasi religious movie that I really enjoy.
[5:26:48] Speaker 1: Two of them, actually one of them is super religious.
[5:26:51] Speaker 1: Is I love the Ten Commandments that Charleston Heston film.
[5:26:54] Speaker 1: Love it. I also believe it or not really love
[5:26:57] Speaker 1: the Life of Pie. I love the movie. It's an
[5:26:59] Speaker 1: amazing movie. I love it to death. Such a good movie,
[5:27:03] Speaker 1: and I think they were doing a good job there
[5:27:06] Speaker 1: of trying to be theistic without being preachy. Jakolin said,
[5:27:11] Speaker 1: my favorite religious movie is Spinal Tap. I can definitely
[5:27:17] Speaker 1: go for the band. All right, guys, let me grab
[5:27:21] Speaker 1: the last couple of super chats here. Frederick says, funniest
[5:27:24] Speaker 1: apologetic I ever read where Caine's white. Oh yeah, a
[5:27:29] Speaker 1: response from where Caine's wife came from that he married
[5:27:32] Speaker 1: a distant sister? What the fuck is a distant sister?
[5:27:35] Speaker 1: So yeah, that's the craziest thing is they know that
[5:27:39] Speaker 1: there's no like, theoretically God didn't create any more people, right,
[5:27:43] Speaker 1: so he had to marry a relative. Well he's like,
[5:27:45] Speaker 1: oh shit, well, I mean it would have had to
[5:27:48] Speaker 1: been sister. And they're like, oh God, that feels so
[5:27:50] Speaker 1: bad to say that it must be a distant sister.
[5:27:53] Speaker 1: What the hell is a distant sister. It's a sister
[5:27:56] Speaker 1: by like only a half parent. Like it's listen, it's
[5:28:00] Speaker 1: it's your sister, dude. That's all there is to it.
[5:28:02] Speaker 1: It's your sister. There's no such thing as a distant sister.
[5:28:05] Speaker 1: You could have said like a niece or a grandchild
[5:28:08] Speaker 1: or a cousin or something like that, but that doesn't
[5:28:11] Speaker 1: make it any better, doesn't. And Johanna says, I lead
[5:28:16] Speaker 1: a normal, caring life. I'm definitely not riddled with sin.
[5:28:19] Speaker 1: By all means, punish the bad ones, and preferably in
[5:28:22] Speaker 1: this lifetime. I listen, I'm with you. I've not done
[5:28:25] Speaker 1: anything that requires me to be burned alive for the
[5:28:29] Speaker 1: rest of you eraternity, that's crazy. The fact that God
[5:28:33] Speaker 1: would send anybody to hell, even for five minutes is
[5:28:36] Speaker 1: utterly ridiculous. And I say it every time I'm live.
[5:28:40] Speaker 1: If you have children, you know there's nothing your child
[5:28:43] Speaker 1: could do that you would ever light them on fire
[5:28:45] Speaker 1: for even two seconds. You would never do it God.
[5:28:49] Speaker 1: If God is a father, he's not a good father.
[5:28:52] Speaker 1: A snap outfit says you're the best. Well, thank you
[5:28:55] Speaker 1: so much for the thirty three dollars super chat. I
[5:28:57] Speaker 1: really appreciate that. Snap A definitely appreciate it. And Johannah
[5:29:03] Speaker 1: again says, heaven is here on earth if where you
[5:29:06] Speaker 1: live is not move I agree with you. I think
[5:29:09] Speaker 1: the life we have now, you know we owe it
[5:29:13] Speaker 1: to ourselves and others to make it amazing, to make
[5:29:16] Speaker 1: it the best life you can have, because you only
[5:29:18] Speaker 1: get one of them. And so I'm in full agreement.
[5:29:22] Speaker 2: This is what we have.
[5:29:23] Speaker 1: Let's make the most of it. If there's a heaven,
[5:29:25] Speaker 1: this is it. This is as good as it gets.
[5:29:28] Speaker 1: So guys, let's have fun. The best quote in the Bible,
[5:29:32] Speaker 1: eat drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we may die.
[5:29:35] Speaker 1: And I listen, I make a very good habit of this.
[5:29:39] Speaker 1: I'm a very biblical man when it comes to this
[5:29:42] Speaker 1: one thing. Eat, drink, be merry, because tomorrow we may die.
[5:29:45] Speaker 1: And Doug says, welcome, sorry, Doug, keepye welcome to the
[5:29:49] Speaker 1: Crack and Crew. Lead. I really appreciate you joining the
[5:29:51] Speaker 1: Crack and Crew, big w And with that, guys, listen,
[5:29:54] Speaker 1: oh shit, we got one more. Well, make Mammoth good
[5:29:58] Speaker 1: to see you tonight, friend, it says, the best real
[5:30:01] Speaker 1: movie is The Rock with Nick Cage and Sean Connery.
[5:30:06] Speaker 1: I haven't seen that, but I love Sean Connery and
[5:30:10] Speaker 1: Nick Cage. I'm surprised I haven't watched that movie. It's
[5:30:13] Speaker 1: because I haven't watched movies, and like once I became
[5:30:17] Speaker 1: a working adult. I just kind of had. I decided
[5:30:19] Speaker 1: there were things I weren't going to do anymore, because
[5:30:21] Speaker 1: like I had to limit what I was going to
[5:30:24] Speaker 1: do in my free time. In watching movies wasn't one
[5:30:26] Speaker 1: of them. I converted to reading books and drinking coffee
[5:30:32] Speaker 1: and whiskey. That's that's what I did. But yeah, I'll
[5:30:38] Speaker 1: love you. Put it on the to do list, you know,
[5:30:40] Speaker 1: hopefully I'll get some time to get around to it.
[5:30:43] Speaker 1: And last one from salty Bit says, what are your
[5:30:46] Speaker 1: thoughts on a I think you mean an official atheist
[5:30:50] Speaker 1: political party. I'd be all for it. Actually, I would
[5:30:53] Speaker 1: love to have and a godless political party. What what
[5:31:00] Speaker 1: recall it? It has to be good if it's going
[5:31:03] Speaker 1: to be catchy. Let me think on that. What we're
[5:31:07] Speaker 1: to call an atheist political party? I don't know. I
[5:31:14] Speaker 1: don't know, guys, let me know what you think. Actually,
[5:31:17] Speaker 1: shoot me a message on the discord and let me
[5:31:20] Speaker 1: know what you think about that. Something with Doug. I
[5:31:22] Speaker 1: agree John. Guys, if you're not on the discorder yet,
[5:31:25] Speaker 1: what are you waiting for? We finally have surpassed three
[5:31:28] Speaker 1: thousand members and we have a really high active rate
[5:31:32] Speaker 1: we have at any given time about five about ten
[5:31:36] Speaker 1: to fifteen percent of our users online, which is I
[5:31:39] Speaker 1: think it is pretty high. So it's a very active community.
[5:31:41] Speaker 1: We'd love to see you there, and we'd love to
[5:31:44] Speaker 1: have you participate in our deconstruction conversations offline. And who's
[5:31:49] Speaker 1: live right now that we can go?
[5:31:51] Speaker 2: Rate?
[5:31:51] Speaker 1: Is anyone live? Can we? I know it's late, it's
[5:31:54] Speaker 1: late at night. Sorry, yak love that. I think you
[5:31:56] Speaker 1: just got here a couple of minutes ago, and now
[5:31:58] Speaker 1: we're we're already leaving. I apologize, but it's just one
[5:32:04] Speaker 1: of those things. Let me see if anyone's live right
[5:32:06] Speaker 1: now that we can send him to also, but see
[5:32:11] Speaker 1: Sunday special live stream on Sunday Ian and I allegedly
[5:32:18] Speaker 1: Ian and I are going to be co hosting the
[5:32:21] Speaker 1: Atheist Experience together. I cannot wait for the roast session.
[5:32:25] Speaker 1: It's gonna be an amazing roast session. But I'm hearing
[5:32:29] Speaker 1: that Mezzo is live right now. Let me see real quick,
[5:32:34] Speaker 1: where Mezzo at? Where is Mezzo at? I really hate
[5:32:38] Speaker 1: this the way TikTok website is.
[5:32:44] Speaker 2: There?
[5:32:44] Speaker 1: There we go, I see Mezzo tinyes live, cybers live,
[5:32:49] Speaker 1: all right, Mezzo is a typical late night happening. Let's
[5:32:53] Speaker 1: go raid mezzos live stream.
[5:32:56] Speaker 2: We want everyone to agree. Actually looks like.
[5:32:58] Speaker 1: He's already having a little bit of For those who
[5:33:02] Speaker 1: don't know Mezzo, he's a friend of mine in front
[5:33:05] Speaker 1: of the channel and his handle is Mezzo underscore WS
[5:33:11] Speaker 1: and let me zoom in so you can read it. There,
[5:33:14] Speaker 1: go Menzo underscore WS and he's probably got a couple
[5:33:17] Speaker 1: hundred people in their age that five hundred and twenty
[5:33:19] Speaker 1: five people, and right now we got to get this
[5:33:21] Speaker 1: thing well over six hundred. Let's go do a Justin
[5:33:23] Speaker 1: and Doug raid on Mezzo's live stream and boost these
[5:33:27] Speaker 1: numbers up over six hundred. And then I'm I'm gonna
[5:33:30] Speaker 1: join you over there in just a minute myself, and
[5:33:33] Speaker 1: we can go chirp in the comments at the at
[5:33:36] Speaker 1: the guests and make fun of them. I love going
[5:33:39] Speaker 1: into other people's live streams and chirping in the comments
[5:33:42] Speaker 1: and just harassing people. It reminds me of going to
[5:33:45] Speaker 1: like baseball games and making fun of the umps and
[5:33:47] Speaker 1: the referees in basketball games. It is more exciting than
[5:33:51] Speaker 1: the game sometimes, actually, it is, my opinion. Also, last things, last,
[5:33:56] Speaker 1: we're ending the live stream, but I do appreciate the
[5:33:58] Speaker 1: super chats from Max. Max says mcktoon is live too.
[5:34:03] Speaker 1: I oh, I don't know micktoon. Holy shit, who's mcktoon. Now,
[5:34:07] Speaker 1: I gotta look up mctoon. I've never heard of mctoon
[5:34:11] Speaker 1: and I can't figure out how to make the website work.
[5:34:14] Speaker 1: How do I search on the website?
[5:34:19] Speaker 2: Uh?
[5:34:19] Speaker 1: There we go, mc tune. I can't believe it is
[5:34:24] Speaker 1: this an atheist creator mctoon. I don't see anyone when
[5:34:28] Speaker 1: I search for mctoon. I don't know. I'm probably mc
[5:34:32] Speaker 1: toon twenty seven, mc twoon five. There's a lot of
[5:34:36] Speaker 1: mc tuns. I just DM it to me, DM it
[5:34:38] Speaker 1: to me so I can look at it. Also, match
[5:34:41] Speaker 1: Energy says we could be the Dougocrats, and I'd be
[5:34:44] Speaker 1: down to be a Dougocrat. Actually, I gotta think on this.
[5:34:50] Speaker 1: We do need a political party, though, we really do,
[5:34:53] Speaker 1: and Johannah says the Heaven on Earth Party. Actually, I'm
[5:34:57] Speaker 1: with you there, the Heaven on Earth Party. It's a
[5:35:00] Speaker 1: little wordy, but I think we could probably shorten it down.
[5:35:04] Speaker 1: Let me think of it. It certainly wouldn't be a theocracy.
[5:35:07] Speaker 1: It'd be a theocracy, a the I don't know. I'm
[5:35:16] Speaker 1: thinking about it all right. I'll work on this during
[5:35:18] Speaker 1: Mezo's life stream. Hey, guys, thank you so much for
[5:35:20] Speaker 1: being here. Thank you so much for all the likes
[5:35:22] Speaker 1: and the shares and all the support. And thank you
[5:35:25] Speaker 1: to the moderators for moderating and keeping the spam out
[5:35:27] Speaker 1: of the comments. I really do appreciate it. I know
[5:35:30] Speaker 1: it's a lot of work. And thank you so much
[5:35:32] Speaker 1: for everybody who's participating in the community, making the community
[5:35:36] Speaker 1: as awesome as it is. I really appreciate you, guys,
[5:35:38] Speaker 1: and we'll see again on Sunday night.

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