# 2025-07-21 LIVE DEBATE \[God is Imaginary\] An episode of [Deconstruction Zone](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1837730286), 28 Sep 2025, 4 h 57 min. Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/67798420/2025_07_21_live_debate_god_is_imaginary.mp3 Live debating every theist on the planet. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Get Member Perks: https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone/join https://patreon.com/Deconstruction_Zone --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUPPORT THE STREAM: https://venmo.com/u/JHCOFFEEFUND https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/JHCOFFEEFUND https://cash.app/$JHCOFFEEFUND --------------------------------------------------------------------- SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS: https://www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction.zone https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone https://www.youtube.com/@DZDebates https://www.twitch.tv/deconstructionzone_ https://www.instagram.com/deconstruction_zone/ https://clapperapp.com/Justin_DZ https://x.com/Justin_DZ_ https://discord.com/invite/WmeAmrhkxZ https://linktr.ee/justin_____ Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/deconstruction-zone--6451535/support. ## Transcript [0:00] Speaker 1: I think the TikTok and the YouTube streams and the [0:04] Speaker 1: Facebook stream and Twitch team should all be open and [0:07] Speaker 1: running now. Welcome in friends. Everything should be live. We [0:11] Speaker 1: should see some population in the queue here in the [0:15] Speaker 1: near future. I see a bunch of friends are already [0:18] Speaker 1: in the chat. Great to see everybody. So it should [0:21] Speaker 1: be a should be a fun day. It should be [0:24] Speaker 1: a good one. We're starting off the week right, it's Monday. [0:27] Speaker 1: We're going to get right into it. And it looks [0:29] Speaker 1: like we've already got two guests to talk to, so [0:31] Speaker 1: let me let me grab our first three super chests. [0:36] Speaker 1: Get her guest, our first guest in here, Benjamin Vern, [0:40] Speaker 1: thank you for the tonight of Supertest, says love starting [0:42] Speaker 1: the week with Justin's live streams praise Doug, Well, thank [0:45] Speaker 1: you so much. [0:45] Speaker 2: Vern. [0:46] Speaker 1: It is fun to start the week out with the stream. [0:48] Speaker 2: I think I like Monday streams. [0:50] Speaker 1: And Robert says, working hard at work today, hard as [0:54] Speaker 1: a rock, indeed, And while you're at it, put some [0:58] Speaker 1: praise music on, some Doug praise music and sing along [1:01] Speaker 1: to like a Rock? Which was that Bruce Springsteen that [1:04] Speaker 1: didn't like a rock? I could be wrong? Worth listening [1:07] Speaker 1: to and last one from our friend David. David, thank [1:10] Speaker 1: you so so so much for the forty nine ninety [1:12] Speaker 1: nine dollars super chat. Super generous, my friend, and it's [1:15] Speaker 1: great to see you in the stream, Early says to [1:17] Speaker 1: the guest John at the last live show. Yeah, John [1:20] Speaker 1: was a WRAQ. He is an unethical interlocular for in [1:26] Speaker 1: America not being a Christian nation. Andrew Sidell, constitutional lawyer [1:31] Speaker 1: at Freedom from Religion Foundation, wrote the founding myth superb [1:35] Speaker 1: ac accurate rate. Well, David, I have not read that, [1:39] Speaker 1: and I actually don't. I don't know the name either, [1:40] Speaker 1: but I'll definitely have to check him out. This idea [1:43] Speaker 1: that America is a Christian nation simply just isn't true. Now. [1:47] Speaker 1: It might be that people want it to be, but [1:49] Speaker 1: it certainly is not according to the documents that we have. [1:53] Speaker 1: All right, let's get Benjamin in the guest box. I doing, Benjamin, [1:58] Speaker 1: not better yourself doing good things for us? [2:00] Speaker 2: Benjamin? [2:00] Speaker 1: Are you at least eighteen and are you a believer? [2:04] Speaker 3: I am. I'm twenty six. I'm a believer. I'm a [2:06] Speaker 3: Christian Baptist. [2:08] Speaker 1: Cool. Now, what do you think is the most convincing [2:11] Speaker 1: argument or evidence for the Christian God being real, I [2:16] Speaker 1: would say. [2:16] Speaker 3: The probably the the best evidence for him would be [2:20] Speaker 3: just the the grounding of sorry, Like I believe that [2:26] Speaker 3: just a Mo'm sorry, justin sorry one moment, take time, sorry, [2:36] Speaker 3: I'm getting nowhere, pneumonia, sorry with that? Okay, all right? [2:39] Speaker 3: So yeah, So I believe that like things that we [2:44] Speaker 3: have like intrinsic like intentionality, and I believe that that [2:47] Speaker 3: is grounded in something. I believe that, like our consciousness, [2:50] Speaker 3: has to be grounded in something. Why yes, Like for example, [2:55] Speaker 3: like me and you could both agree that like we [2:58] Speaker 3: when we see things like i'm map, that has the [3:01] Speaker 3: derived intentionality because we give it intentionality. Right, So like [3:05] Speaker 3: if we read a map, it has meaning because other [3:07] Speaker 3: people give it meaning. Well, when it comes to thinking [3:12] Speaker 3: things in your head, what gives that meaning? If it [3:17] Speaker 3: makes sense to just you? [3:18] Speaker 1: Our brains Our brains give it meaning. [3:21] Speaker 3: Right, But there's an issue with it. But it has meaning, [3:25] Speaker 3: but something has to ground it to give it meaning. [3:29] Speaker 2: No, we do our brain. [3:30] Speaker 1: So the thing that we find valuable, we find valuable, [3:34] Speaker 1: which is why like I love a really good pen. [3:38] Speaker 1: Some people could give a shit about pens. I love [3:40] Speaker 1: a good pen. I love a pen that rolls and [3:44] Speaker 1: just glides across the page and doesn't leave empty spots [3:48] Speaker 1: in the in the pen stroke. I love it. [3:50] Speaker 2: Most people could give a damn about that. [3:52] Speaker 1: That's something I've placed value on because that's something that [3:55] Speaker 1: I personally like. I don't need to ground that in [3:58] Speaker 1: anything other than my brain, which is the house of [4:01] Speaker 1: my personal preferences. [4:03] Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I mean yeah. To be clear, I do [4:05] Speaker 3: agree with you that the brain, obviously it can explain [4:08] Speaker 3: the chemical process processes behind it, but like what gives [4:13] Speaker 3: it its aboutness? [4:15] Speaker 1: My brain gives it the aboutness. The fact that I [4:20] Speaker 1: have preferences comes from my brain. [4:23] Speaker 4: Wo Okay. [4:27] Speaker 3: So then if we go back to like the derived things, [4:31] Speaker 3: can you give me an example of like one thing [4:34] Speaker 3: on Earth that like has derived intentionality that doesn't require [4:38] Speaker 3: a conscious agent. [4:41] Speaker 1: All the intentionality does require a conscious agent, which is [4:44] Speaker 1: why we see that trees don't have necessarily intentions, they [4:49] Speaker 1: have chemical reactions. Although I would say that there's a [4:53] Speaker 1: pretty fine line between intentions and chemical reactions because like [4:58] Speaker 1: on the molecular scale, our brain. [5:00] Speaker 2: Is basically just doing chemical reactions. [5:03] Speaker 1: But the reality is I do agree that, like, for example, [5:08] Speaker 1: the things that I choose to do seem to be intentional. [5:12] Speaker 1: I could be wrong about that, but I don't see [5:15] Speaker 1: how any of that actually goes back to a deity. [5:19] Speaker 3: Quite sure, So can I can I read like an [5:20] Speaker 3: argument for you? You can just like, you know, give [5:22] Speaker 3: you some premises, like I suppose. [5:23] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, give me your best tag argument. I'm sure, [5:26] Speaker 1: I'm sure I've never heard it. [5:28] Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, sure. So Premise one would be human minds [5:31] Speaker 3: have intentionality, so our our minds are about things. [5:34] Speaker 1: I don't think that's the case. [5:36] Speaker 3: Okay, So you disagree to premise one. So you don't [5:37] Speaker 3: think human minds have intentionality. [5:40] Speaker 1: Uh no, the human mind itself doesn't have an intention [5:44] Speaker 1: like we we can derive intentions from the mind. [5:51] Speaker 3: Okay, So I guess it's just so you're you're disagreeing. [5:56] Speaker 3: I'm trying to say, can you can you repeat that [5:58] Speaker 3: one more time? I'm trying to understand what you're saying. [5:59] Speaker 3: So you're saying that it doesn't have intentionally, because why. [6:03] Speaker 1: You're saying the human mind has intentions, I don't think. [6:07] Speaker 1: I don't know if that's necessarily the case. I think [6:10] Speaker 1: we can derive intentions. There's a lot of human minds [6:13] Speaker 1: or a lot of minds in general, that we would [6:15] Speaker 1: say don't have intentions. Although intentions are a nebulous thing [6:20] Speaker 1: that we don't really know exists, yet like I believe [6:23] Speaker 1: they exist. I can't prove to you that intentions exist [6:27] Speaker 1: because in a deterministic world, it's possible that intentions are illusions. [6:31] Speaker 1: So I'm not going to make like a really firm [6:34] Speaker 1: case that the human mind has intentions. The most I [6:37] Speaker 1: can tell you is that it seems it feels like [6:39] Speaker 1: our brains does have an intention that we create. [6:44] Speaker 5: Okay. [6:44] Speaker 3: Can I give you the pushback to that then? And [6:46] Speaker 3: I would say that we'll see the problem too, is that, like, yeah, sure, [6:49] Speaker 3: So i'man like if your argument is that, like, you know, [6:52] Speaker 3: if I understand your argument correctly, you're basically saying I'm [6:57] Speaker 3: trying to think how I can word this, okay. So [6:58] Speaker 3: like if you clean that thoughts aren't about anything, okay, [7:02] Speaker 3: then I mean, like, what is your argument about? Because [7:04] Speaker 3: the problem is that, like I. [7:06] Speaker 1: Don't think you're using the word about the same way [7:09] Speaker 1: that normal people use the word about. Maybe you should [7:11] Speaker 1: explain what you mean by the word about. [7:15] Speaker 3: Well, when I'm using a word about this you mean [7:17] Speaker 3: in this? Yeah? [7:19] Speaker 2: Sure. [7:19] Speaker 3: So when I'm using about this, basically it refers like [7:22] Speaker 3: the property of a mental state, where it's directed towards. [7:25] Speaker 1: Where do you get that definition, because that's not in [7:27] Speaker 1: the dictionary. [7:28] Speaker 3: Well, I'm using this in regards. It's like a philosophical definition. [7:30] Speaker 3: When I'm using aboutness, I even know I mean, yeah, Just. [7:36] Speaker 1: Just to be clear, Benjamin, none of us are philosophers. [7:38] Speaker 1: Using words in the non colloquial sense is just going [7:42] Speaker 1: to get you like publicly shamed here. [7:45] Speaker 3: Okay, so you're saying before a non philosophical like, well, [7:48] Speaker 3: I'm using my definitions. [7:49] Speaker 6: No. [7:50] Speaker 1: What I'm saying, Benjamin, is if you want people to [7:52] Speaker 1: care about what you're saying, you should use words the [7:55] Speaker 1: way they're typically used, Like about this in the dictionary [7:58] Speaker 1: doesn't mean what you think it does. [8:05] Speaker 3: Okay, so then can we redefine the term about this? [8:07] Speaker 1: You can use whatever term you want to. Just know [8:09] Speaker 1: that if you keep using words like in the non [8:12] Speaker 1: standard sense, like, all you're really doing is annoying the audience. [8:18] Speaker 1: Because now we have to do a big run around. [8:20] Speaker 1: Now we have to do a big Now we have [8:22] Speaker 1: to do a big Benjamin. Now we have to do [8:24] Speaker 1: a big run around to explain how you use words [8:27] Speaker 1: versus how normal people use words. [8:30] Speaker 3: Well, I'm not trying to do that, but I mean, like, [8:31] Speaker 3: in order for me to kind of lay out my argument, [8:33] Speaker 3: I kind of would have to use I mean, it's [8:36] Speaker 3: just I mean, okay, fine, I will, let's just be clear. Okay, [8:40] Speaker 3: I'm just gonn unfortunate to define it thing. Okay, if [8:42] Speaker 3: about this doesn't mean the monustract towards or represents something, [8:45] Speaker 3: what does it mean to you? [8:46] Speaker 1: It means to concern something like. So if I said [8:50] Speaker 1: about that pen over there, it'd be equivalent to saying [8:54] Speaker 1: concerning the pen over there. It just it just means [8:57] Speaker 1: in relation to That's it. [9:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's for what I said. So I mean the [9:01] Speaker 3: con Wait no, no, no, because I'm just adding a [9:05] Speaker 3: couple of extra words into I'm just basically saying. [9:07] Speaker 2: How tale is silly. [9:09] Speaker 1: This conversation becomes when you don't know how like words [9:12] Speaker 1: work in the dictionary, but you think that philosophical usages [9:16] Speaker 1: of words are the same. [9:18] Speaker 3: No, what I'm saying is the concept of aboutness has [9:20] Speaker 3: a well established meaning philosophy. [9:22] Speaker 1: Sure, what's your definition of aboutness? [9:25] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the capacity of a mental state to be [9:27] Speaker 3: directed or represent something. [9:30] Speaker 1: No, aboutness doesn't require a mental state. [9:32] Speaker 3: That's from that's from what's his name, Brentano to the rehearsal, it's. [9:36] Speaker 1: You can, you can, you can say anything you any [9:39] Speaker 1: names you want. It doesn't doesn't fit the actual definition. [9:43] Speaker 3: So I actually disagree, and I would actually to propose [9:46] Speaker 3: a credible alternative definition. You basically just said what again? [9:48] Speaker 1: You could just say what you mean. I just said [9:53] Speaker 1: I know you said what you mean, and the meaning [9:55] Speaker 1: of what you said doesn't match the definition. So you [9:58] Speaker 1: just don't like what the word is defined. You can [10:00] Speaker 1: make up a new word. You can call it flap [10:02] Speaker 1: a jab? [10:04] Speaker 3: All right? Do you believe that physical matters alone have intentionality? [10:09] Speaker 7: Uh? [10:09] Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think we're made of physical matter. [10:12] Speaker 3: So what about when I say physical matter, let's just say [10:15] Speaker 3: like a rock or a neuron firing? Is that about something. [10:21] Speaker 1: In the dictionary definition of about? Yes, in your definition [10:25] Speaker 1: of about, maybe about just means concerning something concerning the [10:34] Speaker 1: thing in my fingers right now, concerning the pen on [10:37] Speaker 1: my desk. That's all that means. [10:41] Speaker 3: Okay, all right, I don't think you're like I don't [10:45] Speaker 3: no events. I don't think you're understanding the argument. [10:47] Speaker 1: Do you understand? I don't think you're capable of articulating [10:50] Speaker 1: the argument, which is wild, because this is. [10:53] Speaker 2: The funny thing. [10:54] Speaker 1: I So I talked to a guy a couple of [10:56] Speaker 1: weeks ago with a PhD in a PhD in philosophy. [11:02] Speaker 1: You know how many words he had to use that [11:04] Speaker 1: were non standard from the dictionary? None fucking zero, not [11:09] Speaker 1: a single time. We talked for two hours, Benjamin, we [11:14] Speaker 1: talked for two hours. Not once did he use a [11:17] Speaker 1: word that didn't have a different meaning than what I [11:19] Speaker 1: can find in the dictionary, or a different meaning than [11:22] Speaker 1: how we. [11:22] Speaker 2: Use it in the English language. [11:23] Speaker 1: So, if you want to have an actual conversation with [11:27] Speaker 1: a real human being who doesn't give a damn about [11:30] Speaker 1: your philosophy, one O, one class, just use words that [11:33] Speaker 1: mean what they mean. [11:34] Speaker 2: Don't give me words. [11:36] Speaker 1: Don't don't give me words that when I look in [11:38] Speaker 1: the dictionary they mean something else. [11:40] Speaker 3: Okay, fine, fair enough, anyway, So I missing a challenge, Like, [11:43] Speaker 3: so you basically said that matter can maybe have about this. Okay, [11:48] Speaker 3: So where is the evidence or example of like purely [11:51] Speaker 3: physical things that are about something? So I can use [11:54] Speaker 3: the contrast like a rock isn't about anything. A thermometer [11:58] Speaker 3: like responds to the tempt sure, but it doesn't represent [12:01] Speaker 3: or understand it. A book contains information, right, but only [12:05] Speaker 3: mine can interpret it. [12:06] Speaker 1: So again, using the actual definition of about everything is [12:10] Speaker 1: about everything, there's not a single thing that isn't about Can. [12:15] Speaker 3: A book that has information interpret it itself? [12:18] Speaker 1: I'd never said anything about interpreting. I've said about the [12:20] Speaker 1: word about. You still don't understand how words work, But [12:26] Speaker 1: you gotta find You gotta find a different way of [12:28] Speaker 1: saying what you're saying if the word you're using isn't right. [12:33] Speaker 3: Again, I assumed you were looking for philosophical debates when [12:36] Speaker 3: I came up here. [12:38] Speaker 1: Why would you think I could give a damn about [12:40] Speaker 1: your like philosophical jargon? Why would I care about that? [12:44] Speaker 1: What I care about is what's logical. What I care [12:46] Speaker 1: about is what's true. And what you what you're attempting [12:49] Speaker 1: to do is a really bad tag argument. You want [12:52] Speaker 1: me to give you the better tag argument. [12:55] Speaker 3: That's not a tag argument. [12:56] Speaker 1: You're literally doing a tag argument. You're basically going to [12:59] Speaker 1: run to a god the gaps. Yeah, you're gonna say [13:01] Speaker 1: that qualitia. What you want to do is give me [13:04] Speaker 1: the qualitia argument, which is essentially what you're getting at. [13:06] Speaker 1: You're trying to say that there are immaterial qualitia that [13:09] Speaker 1: can't be accounted for because qualitia cannot be determined or [13:14] Speaker 1: come from a purely matter. And to that, I would say, [13:17] Speaker 1: prove it. [13:22] Speaker 3: Read the last part of that before you said prove it. [13:24] Speaker 1: I would say, if you're saying that things that you [13:26] Speaker 1: deems immaterial like qualitia, like experiences or you're so called [13:31] Speaker 1: about this can't come from the material world alone, I say, [13:35] Speaker 1: prove it. Prove that it can't. [13:40] Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't. [13:42] Speaker 1: There you go, So then it's not a good argument, [13:44] Speaker 1: Like you're wocome to try another argument. But like I [13:47] Speaker 1: started this the whole discussion, Benjamin by subtly letting you [13:50] Speaker 1: know that I've already heard all the tag arguments, which [13:54] Speaker 1: is why I said, but sure, give me one I've [13:56] Speaker 1: I'm sure I've never heard before. Like you can't think [14:00] Speaker 1: think that I've never heard these arguments before. You don't [14:02] Speaker 1: really think that, Okay, do you think that? Do you [14:07] Speaker 1: thought this was gonna work? [14:10] Speaker 3: Potentially? Why they have they're pretty solid. [14:15] Speaker 1: Arguments, They're not have you ever tried them with an [14:17] Speaker 1: actual atheist. [14:19] Speaker 3: Well, you're an atheist? Are you a new atheist? Or [14:23] Speaker 3: I thought your athought used to be religious? Therefore I [14:25] Speaker 3: thought it works fine. [14:26] Speaker 1: I was religious, I'm not anymore. [14:29] Speaker 3: When did you deconstruct your religion again? I'm just wondering. [14:33] Speaker 1: I haven't been a Christian for ship probably a decade, [14:38] Speaker 1: almost not quite a decade, maybe eight years, But that [14:43] Speaker 1: that really has nothing to do about like the nature [14:46] Speaker 1: of our discussion. Now, listen, if you laid down a [14:50] Speaker 1: really good argument that led to God, listen, shit, it [14:53] Speaker 1: could be that there's some kind of deistic god out there. [14:55] Speaker 2: I've never heard a good argument for it. [14:57] Speaker 1: What I do know is that your god, the christ God, [15:01] Speaker 1: that motherfucker he don't exist. [15:05] Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, great, So I mean so you're not. Then [15:08] Speaker 3: you're not like Follis. You're not fully an atheist. You're [15:11] Speaker 3: just suspending judgment. [15:13] Speaker 1: I'm an agnostic atheist, which means I have no knowledge [15:16] Speaker 1: of a god and I have no belief in a god. [15:18] Speaker 1: If someone provided me a rational argument that could only [15:23] Speaker 1: conclude that a god must exist, I'd be more than [15:25] Speaker 1: happy to accept the argument. But it still wouldn't be [15:29] Speaker 1: the Christian God, which is why my screen doesn't say [15:33] Speaker 1: God is imaginary. My screen says your God is imaginary. [15:37] Speaker 1: Because your God is imaginary, your God's only really the [15:40] Speaker 1: tooth theory. [15:41] Speaker 3: So if if God can't exist, let's say for a [15:45] Speaker 3: reason that like we believe, obviously, not to say one [15:47] Speaker 3: of the big reasons suffering or something like that, if God, [15:50] Speaker 3: if God isn't responsible for the suffering, then who would [15:52] Speaker 3: then be responsible for the suffering we experience? [15:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, so the problem of evil is quite simple in [15:57] Speaker 1: my world view. The suffering happens because the world is chaos. [16:00] Speaker 1: There is no God managing the world. There's no God [16:03] Speaker 1: at the helm. That's why there is the chaos that [16:05] Speaker 1: we see. [16:07] Speaker 3: Okay, so then great. So if God isn't responsible for [16:09] Speaker 3: the suffering because you deny God, then it's just the [16:13] Speaker 3: result of conscious agents that causes a lot of suffering. [16:15] Speaker 1: Correct, No, it's a result of nature. So nature causes [16:21] Speaker 1: all kinds of human suffering. In fact, I would say [16:24] Speaker 1: a lot of the suffering that you might even blame [16:27] Speaker 1: on humans could be solved if nature was different. If [16:30] Speaker 1: nature worked so that there was always clean drinking water [16:33] Speaker 1: everywhere on the planet and there was always food readily [16:36] Speaker 1: available everywhere on the planet, and there were no natural disasters. [16:41] Speaker 1: If that was the way nature was, there'd be a [16:43] Speaker 1: lot less wars over resources, over land, over money, so [16:49] Speaker 1: on and so forth. [16:52] Speaker 3: Guess is it possible that there was a god that [16:56] Speaker 3: isn't proba good? [16:59] Speaker 1: I mean possible, it's just not the Christian God. [17:02] Speaker 3: Okay, so you wouldn't be able to suspend you would [17:04] Speaker 3: have to suspend Judson them because. [17:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's possible, it's just not the Christian God. Again, [17:10] Speaker 1: my claim is not that there isn't some sort of [17:13] Speaker 1: a weird deistic Goud out there that just like poofed [17:16] Speaker 1: things into existence and now he's just what he just [17:20] Speaker 1: fucked off. Or I mean a buddy of mine has [17:23] Speaker 1: came up with a theory that there was a god [17:25] Speaker 1: that poofed everything into existence and then he died something [17:28] Speaker 1: killed him. There's like a lot of different theories to [17:32] Speaker 1: explain the state of reality. It's just not the it's [17:35] Speaker 1: not the Christian God. [17:37] Speaker 3: Okay, last question, I let you go because obviously you [17:40] Speaker 3: know that's one you probably have other people. Does people [17:45] Speaker 3: that hold non extremist religious you know how they have [17:50] Speaker 3: no they're non extremists, but their Religiou does that bother you? [17:53] Speaker 2: No? [17:56] Speaker 3: Question Number two, you obviously wouldn't tell someone on their [17:59] Speaker 3: death bed. And so you're a family member that was [18:01] Speaker 3: a Christian as they're dying, if they're talking about God, [18:04] Speaker 3: you wouldn't tell God isn't real? [18:05] Speaker 1: Right, depends on which family member they are. [18:10] Speaker 3: Well, sure, I'll just say it's like a close, close [18:12] Speaker 3: family A close family member. [18:14] Speaker 1: Now if they're literally on their their deathbed, no, I'm [18:16] Speaker 1: not gonna like go up to them and be like, [18:18] Speaker 1: God's not real. [18:19] Speaker 2: But in reality, I don't. I don't. [18:21] Speaker 1: I don't actually do that. I don't actually do that [18:24] Speaker 1: in real life. Like I don't go up to anybody [18:26] Speaker 1: in real life, no matter what the circumstances are, and [18:28] Speaker 1: tell them that God's not real. [18:30] Speaker 3: If your mother is dying and she asked you to [18:31] Speaker 3: pray for her, would you pray for her before she [18:33] Speaker 3: died if. [18:34] Speaker 2: She wanted me to, I would. [18:35] Speaker 1: I mean shit, I'm presiding over a wedding in like [18:38] Speaker 1: two months, and certainly I'm going to be praying in [18:40] Speaker 1: the wedding. But the there's going to be though, why [18:44] Speaker 1: not the people? Because because the people who do believe [18:49] Speaker 1: find it to be meaningful. [18:51] Speaker 3: Wait, that's my that's my point. So the question for you, [18:53] Speaker 3: can you openly say that right now that your sole [18:56] Speaker 3: purpose by these lives is to strip people of their [18:59] Speaker 3: purpose and meaning. [19:00] Speaker 1: No, my sole purpose by this live is to make [19:02] Speaker 1: the society I live in a better place, because I [19:04] Speaker 1: think societies are better when they believe in things that [19:07] Speaker 1: are true and not in fairy tales. And also I [19:09] Speaker 1: think the Christian religion and the Abrahamic religions in general [19:13] Speaker 1: have been a net negative for humanity if you just [19:15] Speaker 1: look over the history. [19:17] Speaker 3: I'm confused me. You said you said that it brings [19:18] Speaker 3: people meaning and purpose. [19:19] Speaker 7: In their life. [19:20] Speaker 2: I didn't say that. [19:21] Speaker 3: You said that people that are religious, they have they [19:24] Speaker 3: have it's meaningful for them. [19:25] Speaker 1: I said people find it to be meaningful. They attribute [19:28] Speaker 1: meaning to it. I'm not saying it gives them meaning. [19:31] Speaker 1: They think it gives them meaning, but the reality is [19:33] Speaker 1: they give it the meaning. [19:36] Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess it just doesn't really Just got confuses [19:38] Speaker 3: me because. [19:38] Speaker 1: Like confusing because like so unlike you, this is the [19:42] Speaker 1: fun summary. Unlike believers, I don't go around to people [19:46] Speaker 1: I love and care about and try to force them [19:48] Speaker 1: to believe the bullshit that I believe in, except for Christians. [19:51] Speaker 1: Christians feel the need to go around in society and [19:54] Speaker 1: force everybody to believe they're bullshit. We have to force [19:57] Speaker 1: it in the schools, we have to send people the [20:00] Speaker 1: door to evangelize. We have to spend millions of dollars [20:04] Speaker 1: evangelizing people through missionary efforts. That's the bullshit religion does. [20:08] Speaker 1: I'm here in my own space saying things that I [20:12] Speaker 1: think is true. I've not gone to anyone's door. I've [20:15] Speaker 1: not held up any signs protesting things in public. I've [20:18] Speaker 1: never gone up to a person in the street trying [20:20] Speaker 1: to convince them they shouldn't believe in God. That's the [20:23] Speaker 1: ship you guys do. In fact, the fact that I [20:26] Speaker 1: exist makes you, guys so fucking uneasy. You have to [20:29] Speaker 1: come to our spaces like you feel compelled to come [20:33] Speaker 1: to our spaces and stop what we're doing. [20:36] Speaker 3: That's because religion, quite literally, is not in that negative. [20:40] Speaker 3: It actually benefits people's lives. [20:42] Speaker 1: It can benefit people's lives. [20:44] Speaker 2: It also ends, it also ends. [20:46] Speaker 1: It also no, it doesn't, Benjamin. It also read no, [20:50] Speaker 1: you're wrong. So how many, how many millions of people [20:54] Speaker 1: died in the Inquisitions. [20:55] Speaker 2: Wait before I even answered that, Benjamin. [20:59] Speaker 1: De Band, the data does not fucking say that answer [21:02] Speaker 1: my question. It does how many millions of people died [21:04] Speaker 1: in the Inquisition, It doesn't matter. It does answer the [21:09] Speaker 1: question how many people died during the inquisitions Christian extremism. [21:13] Speaker 1: How many people died during the Inquisitions? [21:22] Speaker 3: Sorry, I got a phone call. [21:25] Speaker 1: How many people died during the Inquisitions? What years the [21:30] Speaker 1: entire Inquisition? It lasted for a couple hundred years. [21:35] Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe like ten thousand. [21:39] Speaker 1: No, the low estimate is eleven million. [21:44] Speaker 3: No, you're from the entire That's not true that the [21:48] Speaker 3: Inquisition or the Roman Inquisition which won. [21:51] Speaker 1: All of them, they're all part of the same thing. [21:53] Speaker 1: Every inquisition that was all the inquisitions that were held [21:57] Speaker 1: in Europe were horrific, and they were all part of [22:00] Speaker 1: the Christian religion. It doesn't matter if it because Roman, [22:03] Speaker 1: doesn't matter if it was Spanish. They all resulted in [22:07] Speaker 1: Christians unalizing each other. [22:10] Speaker 3: I already agree with you that Christian extremism, like any [22:14] Speaker 3: other religion, can be dangerous obviously. [22:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, And Christianity was the vehicle, just [22:24] Speaker 1: like Islam is the vehicle for extremism right now, just [22:29] Speaker 1: like there are Christian extremists right now in our country. [22:32] Speaker 1: In fact, there was a pastor, the pastor of the [22:34] Speaker 1: church where Peak Pete Hegsith goes to literally is advocating [22:39] Speaker 1: today to burn gay people. This is this is what [22:44] Speaker 1: Christianity teaches. Christianity teaches that the Bible says you can [22:49] Speaker 1: burn or you can stone gay people. The Bible says [22:52] Speaker 1: that this is an appropriate thing. God hates this particular behavior, [22:56] Speaker 1: and you should hate what God hates. The reason like [23:00] Speaker 1: Christianity is a net negative for society is because people [23:03] Speaker 1: can do all kinds of horrific stuff and then they [23:06] Speaker 1: can point to the Bible and say I did it [23:08] Speaker 1: because this is what the Bible says. [23:14] Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean the argument where I'll just have [23:15] Speaker 3: against that, yeah, obviously that occurs. The argument would just [23:18] Speaker 3: be is that religiously motivated crimes, okay, aren't even close [23:26] Speaker 3: to atheist regimes. [23:28] Speaker 2: Yeah, they're They're way worse. [23:29] Speaker 3: I know, no atheist regimes, Like like, what is it? [23:33] Speaker 1: Stalin? Stalin's the only thing close you can get to [23:37] Speaker 1: an atheist regime. [23:39] Speaker 3: There was one hundred million probably deaths an atheist regime [23:43] Speaker 3: as compared to religious religiously. [23:45] Speaker 2: Probably name who. [23:48] Speaker 5: You have. [23:49] Speaker 3: I guess you'd do like Stalin's purchase. [23:51] Speaker 1: How many people do Stalin kill? How many people do [23:55] Speaker 1: Stalin kill? [23:57] Speaker 3: Obviously? [23:57] Speaker 1: How many people did Stalin kill? [24:00] Speaker 3: Well knows exactly. [24:01] Speaker 1: You tell me, where do you get your number from? [24:05] Speaker 5: Huh? [24:06] Speaker 1: Where do you get your number from? [24:07] Speaker 3: Then? No, I know at the top of my head, [24:08] Speaker 3: And that's what it was. [24:09] Speaker 1: I know he killed a lot of people. [24:12] Speaker 2: Wait, I would get how many people? [24:14] Speaker 1: How many people were killed under the Third Reich. [24:17] Speaker 2: Let's just do this guy, how many people? [24:19] Speaker 1: It's crazy that you want to answer a question. How [24:21] Speaker 1: many people were killed under the Third Reich? [24:25] Speaker 3: Probably fifteen to twenty Yeah, a lot, a lot. [24:27] Speaker 1: Of millions, And we estimated just six million Jews. That [24:31] Speaker 1: that's only the Jews. Right now, we can add so [24:36] Speaker 1: already just using World War Two era, we already have [24:40] Speaker 1: an equivalent Stalin millions. I'm sure he was a horrible [24:43] Speaker 1: human being. [24:45] Speaker 2: A third Reich. [24:45] Speaker 1: He was third Third Reich, probably damn near the same [24:49] Speaker 1: as Stalin. Now we can also add in all the [24:52] Speaker 1: other religious deaths, the Inquisitions minimum of eleven million, the [24:56] Speaker 1: Holy Wars another five to six million people died during [25:01] Speaker 1: the Crusades, the Great Schism of people who went to [25:05] Speaker 1: war to literally conquer the Promised Land by slaughtering and [25:09] Speaker 1: genociding the people that were currently living there. I don't [25:13] Speaker 1: know how many people were living there. I'm sure it [25:14] Speaker 1: was a lot. They got genocided according to history. And [25:18] Speaker 1: then we can even do non Christian wars, like there's [25:20] Speaker 1: all kinds of religious based wars in the entire world. [25:24] Speaker 3: I'm just going to be very clear with this. I [25:26] Speaker 3: heard you said. My argument is very simple. It doesn't [25:29] Speaker 3: really necessarily it doesn't follow for you to say that [25:33] Speaker 3: that it's a net negative for Christianity when the data [25:36] Speaker 3: literally still I agree with you, Yes, there was tons [25:39] Speaker 3: of religiously motivated. [25:40] Speaker 1: Data doesn't disagree with me. [25:41] Speaker 2: It disagrees with you. [25:43] Speaker 1: The data does not show. [25:44] Speaker 3: That shows atheists, when you hold an atheist position, there's [25:47] Speaker 3: more crime than religious. [25:48] Speaker 1: The data does not show that. So what you're attempting [25:54] Speaker 1: to do is say white evangelical Christians in America today [25:59] Speaker 1: behaved differently than atheists in America. That's not an actual comparison. [26:05] Speaker 1: I said, net negative. This includes all of the history [26:09] Speaker 1: of the religion. [26:11] Speaker 2: It doesn't. [26:12] Speaker 1: It doesn't matter to me that Christianity, all the horrific [26:15] Speaker 1: shit at this point has been weeded out of it. [26:18] Speaker 1: In fact, one day we might even do the same [26:20] Speaker 1: thing with Islam. I'm saying, over the course of human history, [26:24] Speaker 1: Christianity has not been at a positive, It's been a [26:27] Speaker 1: net negative. I could give a damn if you think, well, [26:30] Speaker 1: shit like Christians Christians today, like they believe in like [26:35] Speaker 1: putting up hospitals and graduate fuculations. So do atheists, which [26:39] Speaker 1: is not enough of us to actually get it done. [26:43] Speaker 3: Your position would only end with both or a net negative. [26:46] Speaker 1: No, it wouldn't. [26:48] Speaker 3: So being atheists, I think has a it holds a superior. [26:53] Speaker 1: The atheism is not a movement. There there's nothing that [26:57] Speaker 1: you can You can't take any You can't take an [27:00] Speaker 1: atheists and say here are the things that atheists do, [27:05] Speaker 1: because you know, over the course of atheism there's not [27:09] Speaker 1: like a clear agenda, there's not a clear goal. [27:13] Speaker 3: Just a minute here, hold up, Billy. [27:20] Speaker 1: The Baptist literally losing his mind in the comments. I [27:23] Speaker 1: can't wait from the when they get the balls to [27:24] Speaker 1: get in the guest box. [27:26] Speaker 3: Let's do everybody, Yes, my son is off the boss man. [27:35] Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I think going dude. [27:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, Also, Benjamin, I would point out that whether or [27:40] Speaker 1: not you think Christianity is good or bad is completely [27:42] Speaker 1: irrelevant to whether or not it's true. [27:44] Speaker 2: So I'm sorry for the last part. [27:47] Speaker 1: So, whether or not you think Christianity is good or bad, [27:50] Speaker 1: it's also irrelevant to whether or not it's true. [27:53] Speaker 4: Well, again, I try to give me into the argument. [27:55] Speaker 4: I can't use my words. [27:58] Speaker 2: We'll try this again. [27:59] Speaker 1: Whether or not you think Christianity is good is irrelevant [28:03] Speaker 1: to whether or not you think it is true. So [28:09] Speaker 1: as you're doing is wasting your time. I don't care [28:11] Speaker 1: if it's good or bad. I think it's bad. I [28:14] Speaker 1: care if it's true. So all right, listen, go take [28:17] Speaker 1: care of your kid. Man, all right, Cures, Is it [28:21] Speaker 1: just me or did the horizontal stream crash? It looks frozen, [28:28] Speaker 1: the vertical stream still running. I see comments on the [28:31] Speaker 1: vertical stream, and no one has let me know of [28:34] Speaker 1: anything going on there. Let me reload the horizontal stream [28:38] Speaker 1: on my phone real quick. See if the horizontal stream [28:40] Speaker 1: is done for anyone. Yeah, the horizontal stream is not loading. [28:45] Speaker 1: I'm curious if it's just my phone, If anyone's around [28:49] Speaker 1: that could check on the horizontal stream and let me [28:51] Speaker 1: know if the horizontal crashed. Yeah, the horizontal went down. [28:53] Speaker 1: I don't know why that is. That's weird. Yeah, give [28:57] Speaker 1: me one second. I'll restart the horizontal stream. It's kind [29:00] Speaker 1: of a weird thing to happen. I've never seen the [29:02] Speaker 1: horizontal stream just kind of crash like that. Let me [29:05] Speaker 1: see if I could. Let me see if I can [29:07] Speaker 1: fix it up. I don't know if I can without [29:12] Speaker 1: ending the stream. Fuck one second, one second. Let me [29:21] Speaker 1: go to my other account and see if there's a [29:23] Speaker 1: reason why it crashed. It shows that it's live, which [29:29] Speaker 1: is really interesting. So I show that. If I go [29:31] Speaker 1: into my account, it does show that it's live. I [29:33] Speaker 1: do see comments still going, but it's saying that the [29:36] Speaker 1: streaming software might not be connected. Okay, it looks like [29:40] Speaker 1: it might be connected. Now, okay, I think it's back up. [29:46] Speaker 1: It could have just been my phone too. Okay, well [29:49] Speaker 1: now it might have been my phone crashing. Now all right, [29:51] Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep keep it rolling. Let me grab a [29:53] Speaker 1: couple of super chats. We'll get our next guest in here. [29:55] Speaker 1: Sorry about the delay there, guys. Steven says, do Genesis [29:59] Speaker 1: do second to? [30:00] Speaker 2: What? [30:00] Speaker 1: Do two Genesis stories contradict each other? I mean kind of, Stephen. [30:05] Speaker 1: If you compare the order of events, they do contradict [30:08] Speaker 1: each other. I never use that contradiction in a debate [30:11] Speaker 1: only because I don't think it's all that meaningful. Because [30:14] Speaker 1: I don't think that I don't think that Genesis two, [30:17] Speaker 1: the second creation account, was attempting to give a detailed account. [30:22] Speaker 1: I think Genesis two was saying, here's a summary of [30:25] Speaker 1: some shit God did when he created the world. Now [30:27] Speaker 1: let's get on to the humans. Let me tell you [30:30] Speaker 1: how he created humans. Right, So I don't like, I know, [30:33] Speaker 1: if you just compare the order of operations, I get it, [30:36] Speaker 1: they do contradict in the order that they're given. I [30:39] Speaker 1: just don't think the intention of the author was to [30:41] Speaker 1: give a strict order of events. So that's me personally. [30:44] Speaker 1: That's why I don't use that contradiction. But thank you [30:47] Speaker 1: for the superchest and Johnny, thank you for the Superjest [30:49] Speaker 1: says I was debating Christians about Matthew sixteen twenty seven, [30:52] Speaker 1: twenty eight. They claim it was fulfilled because John saw [30:54] Speaker 1: Jesus and revelation thoughts, well, it's wrong for two reasons. [30:57] Speaker 1: One because it's clearly not saying that you will see [31:00] Speaker 1: a vision. Jesus didn't say you'll see a vision of [31:03] Speaker 1: me coming. He says you will see me coming. He [31:06] Speaker 1: also says some some is always more than one, which [31:10] Speaker 1: means one doesn't count. John's vision can't count unless there [31:13] Speaker 1: were at least two people seeing the vision. Also, it's [31:16] Speaker 1: pretty clear that the gospel authors assumed that you would [31:20] Speaker 1: think it's the transfiguration, which is why they put it [31:22] Speaker 1: right there. Edward says, if you put hadassa John and [31:25] Speaker 1: Praise I Am into the same room, even Doug would [31:28] Speaker 1: struggle with the sheer bf they. I don't know about you, Edward, [31:32] Speaker 1: I would I would pay money to put Hadassa John [31:36] Speaker 1: and Praise I Am into a room together and just [31:38] Speaker 1: let him slug it out. That would be the most [31:41] Speaker 1: entertaining thing I've ever seen. Jim, and I good to [31:44] Speaker 1: see it today. Thank you for the super test, says, [31:46] Speaker 1: I'm about to crash out about how this guest's obsession about. [31:50] Speaker 1: I know I'm always tickled when and I've heard him before. [31:54] Speaker 1: I knew he was a Philbrough, But I'm always tickled [31:57] Speaker 1: when philbros come in and they use words wrong and [32:00] Speaker 1: they think, well, this is how I learned to use [32:02] Speaker 1: it in philosophy class. Motherfucker, you are not in philosophy class. [32:06] Speaker 1: That's not where you're at. You're in the real world now, [32:08] Speaker 1: and in the real world you have to use words [32:11] Speaker 1: that are defined properly in the English Dictionary. No one [32:14] Speaker 1: cares how your last five page philosophy paper turned out. Hey, who, [32:19] Speaker 1: thank you for the five Deconstruction Zone gifted memberships. That's huge, [32:23] Speaker 1: my friend, I really appreciate that. And thanks for being [32:26] Speaker 1: here in elteen. Thank you for the fifty hours super chat. [32:31] Speaker 1: That's super generous, my friend says. Apologies that probably can't [32:34] Speaker 1: catch the whole live today. No worries, but question and [32:36] Speaker 1: answer tomorrow maybe, yes, tomorrow, I will be doing a [32:39] Speaker 1: Q and A says, Also help me out here, David, [32:42] Speaker 1: get me one hundred tipskins. Here you go, double your fun. [32:46] Speaker 1: Thanks David. What the f are the next series of [32:49] Speaker 1: events regarding the tips? So this is a good question. [32:54] Speaker 1: What did Saul do with all the tips? [32:57] Speaker 2: No one knows. [32:58] Speaker 1: My theory is he made something akin the Chitlins or [33:02] Speaker 1: maybe some hogrinds. He definitely deep Fried those things. That's [33:06] Speaker 1: that's where I'm going with that Silver Surfer. Thank you [33:08] Speaker 1: for the Fortnite and nine super hype. I appreciate that. [33:11] Speaker 1: And Lamachus says, don't ask your religion when you get arrested. [33:15] Speaker 1: They don't ask your religion when you get arrested. They should. Actually, [33:18] Speaker 1: I'd be curious to know. I would be really curious [33:21] Speaker 1: to know. What I do know is the prison. If [33:23] Speaker 1: you do a survey in prison, there are more theists [33:26] Speaker 1: than atheists. Paul says, best cooking show on the net, [33:29] Speaker 1: keep rocking. Well, thank you, Paul. I appreciate that. And [33:33] Speaker 1: Andreas says, it's a story to cope with the absurdity [33:36] Speaker 1: of life. That's true. That's my point. That's what I'm saying. [33:40] Speaker 1: I've got I think a one, two, three, four, five, [33:43] Speaker 1: six more super chats, and then we're going to bring [33:45] Speaker 1: in our next guest, which looks like it's gonna be Chris. [33:50] Speaker 1: Chris Scott. I think the name is Chris Scott. Anyways, [33:56] Speaker 1: Daniel says, enjoying Justin's barbecue while on vacation will shit. [34:00] Speaker 1: I hope you're enjoying your vacation. It is summer, it's [34:02] Speaker 1: the best time to vacation unless you live in a [34:05] Speaker 1: cold state, then you want a vacation in the middle [34:06] Speaker 1: winter summer warm. [34:07] Speaker 2: But I hope you enjoy it. [34:08] Speaker 1: And apostate chest says, compare freedom of religion in the [34:11] Speaker 1: US to Deuteronomy at thirteen. [34:14] Speaker 2: Yeah. [34:14] Speaker 1: Actually, if you look at an atheist organization like freedom [34:17] Speaker 1: from religion, and do you compare that to so called [34:21] Speaker 1: religious organizations, I think you'll see a very different story. No, [34:24] Speaker 1: Mad says, listening a bit behind, but checked out the [34:27] Speaker 1: fountain pen hobby. If you like a good pen, even [34:30] Speaker 1: just a cheap pilot Metropolitan is praise dog. Actually, I [34:34] Speaker 1: do have some fountain pens. I can't use them in [34:37] Speaker 1: my everyday life, but when I'm writing like Hebrew scripts, [34:42] Speaker 1: I use a good fountain pen. But yeah, I took [34:45] Speaker 1: clicker fee actually when I was in high school, and [34:47] Speaker 1: I just kind of fell in love with good pens [34:49] Speaker 1: and writing. So it's really cool. Like a good pen. [34:53] Speaker 1: It feels good in your hand, it writes good. It [34:55] Speaker 1: just feels good to have a good pen. That's me personally. [34:58] Speaker 1: Straightforward says some slow on the menu today, maybe some [35:02] Speaker 1: straight maybe some straight to the barbecue. Rock hard for [35:06] Speaker 1: Doug from Norway, well, thank you so much, straight forward. [35:08] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And trust me, there's a lot of [35:11] Speaker 1: time left in the stream. There's going to be some [35:13] Speaker 1: people that jump right into the fire. And Abraham the [35:16] Speaker 1: Chowden says, blocked off time for an afternoon of query [35:19] Speaker 1: scripting and justin Doug truly as the rocket of agent. Well, [35:23] Speaker 1: thank you for spending your time with me while you're [35:25] Speaker 1: doing your I assume sequel of programming, big w And [35:30] Speaker 1: I hope I'm not distracting to you, but I also [35:33] Speaker 1: hope you're having fun. And last one from Tobias says, [35:35] Speaker 1: what if God was a stranger on the bus? Yeah? [35:38] Speaker 1: I mean Cheryl Crow asked that question a while ago. [35:41] Speaker 1: I thought it was a good question. What if God [35:43] Speaker 1: was just a normal Joe. But I think if that [35:47] Speaker 1: is the case, then God wouldn't be God then, right, [35:50] Speaker 1: I think that's the implication of that. Anyways, Chris Scott, [35:54] Speaker 1: are you with us? [35:56] Speaker 2: Nope? Chris Coss, he ran. [36:01] Speaker 1: All right, we'll get the next one in the queue. [36:04] Speaker 1: Let's get Conundrum up here, and then our friend Creed [36:08] Speaker 1: is back. We'll grab Creed after Conundrum. We come in [36:13] Speaker 1: Conundrum yep. [36:16] Speaker 2: So you made it a couple of conundrum. [36:18] Speaker 1: Are you at least eighteen? And are you a believer [36:21] Speaker 1: in God? [36:23] Speaker 2: I'm a believer in Jesus. [36:24] Speaker 1: Kind of you feel bros really running packs, don't you pack? [36:30] Speaker 1: So what's your best argument or evidence for the Christian [36:33] Speaker 1: God being real? [36:35] Speaker 2: Well, it's not about that kind it is. [36:39] Speaker 1: Yeah, So what you're gonna do? So, I don't know [36:42] Speaker 1: if you're I don't know if you know over Yeah. [36:43] Speaker 2: I think you're. [36:44] Speaker 1: You came in pretty dizzy, so you're not actually asking [36:47] Speaker 1: you questions. So well, I kind of I'll kind of [36:49] Speaker 1: help orient you. I'll help orient you on the way in. [36:53] Speaker 1: So the way this works is you come in, I [36:55] Speaker 1: asked you the preliminary questions. You can choose to answer them, [36:59] Speaker 1: or you can choose to run from them. So I'll [37:02] Speaker 1: try again. What's the best argument or evidence for the [37:06] Speaker 1: Christian God being real? [37:08] Speaker 2: Archaeological evidence? I would suggest that right all right, now, [37:11] Speaker 2: what archaeological? [37:13] Speaker 1: What archaeological? No one cares about the meta. Let's get [37:16] Speaker 1: onto the argument. So literally, what archaeological what archaeological evidence [37:22] Speaker 1: do you think confirms or provides a rational argument for [37:26] Speaker 1: the Christian God being real. [37:30] Speaker 2: Which okay, So how about the Exodus? How about how [37:33] Speaker 2: about that? Of course? What about it? Christian God? [37:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, what's the evidence that proves the excess? [37:40] Speaker 2: Well, there's a whole slew of like name one. See [37:45] Speaker 2: you're running away from her own question, name one. What [37:47] Speaker 2: your questions? [37:48] Speaker 1: Which we'll try this again. So I asked you for [37:50] Speaker 1: the evidence. You said archaeology. Now I'm asking you what [37:53] Speaker 1: specifically about archaeology are you thinking confirms the Exodus? [37:59] Speaker 2: Well, I mean considering that they have the uh undiscoes [38:03] Speaker 2: the grave sides and you could read that in uh [38:06] Speaker 2: doctor Badford be techs will be unliving of grave sites [38:10] Speaker 2: of who For example, I just clearly said the children [38:13] Speaker 2: listening comprehentions is how you're strong suit obviously, So who [38:18] Speaker 2: I just said, the Israelites? Okay? [38:21] Speaker 1: And Manford b tech? Where are these uh? Where are [38:24] Speaker 1: these gravesites? [38:25] Speaker 2: Yea, the leading Well, they're they're in Egypt. Obviously, they [38:28] Speaker 2: have been discovered as far as back as two thousand [38:31] Speaker 2: when he began is uh right, around two thousand, early [38:35] Speaker 2: part of two thousand. Yeah, you can read it in [38:37] Speaker 2: his book. You can also read doctor David Rowles extensive research. [38:39] Speaker 2: You could also read doctor Titus Kennedy's research. I mean [38:42] Speaker 2: there's there's especially. [38:44] Speaker 1: I don't think any of these people are really that good. [38:47] Speaker 1: I would point to like James Hoffmeyer. James Hoffmeyer has [38:49] Speaker 1: done a lot better research in Egypt. He's actually, let [38:55] Speaker 1: us try this again. The lead, the leading egypt egyptologists [38:59] Speaker 1: right now is still James Hoffmeyer, which is why if [39:02] Speaker 1: you read any of these books that you're referring to, [39:04] Speaker 1: they reference James Hoffmeyer. James Hofmeyer not only has been [39:08] Speaker 1: doing it a lot longer, he's literally the most referenced [39:11] Speaker 1: egyptologists alive. He literally is Ye, have you read a [39:17] Speaker 1: single book by him? [39:19] Speaker 2: Well, no, I've read doctor Matporbtek and he is the [39:22] Speaker 2: leading archaeologist according to who, according to who, well his university, [39:28] Speaker 2: which is according. [39:29] Speaker 1: To his university, he's the leading. Okay, okay, so. [39:32] Speaker 2: Somebody who actually lead try this. We'll just do this again. [39:38] Speaker 1: So I've actually went to school and I actually had [39:42] Speaker 1: professors who were Egyptologists, Like I actually had professors who [39:47] Speaker 1: actually had professors who are Egyptologists. That was their specialty [39:52] Speaker 1: and the only one. And they were, Okay, where do [39:55] Speaker 1: you go to school at? [39:57] Speaker 2: When did I? I? Went to Lee University done Cleveland, Tennessee, [40:00] Speaker 2: and I've actually talked to doctor Hugh Ross. Okay, yeah, yeah, actually. [40:07] Speaker 1: Okay, tell me tell me about the Hebrew baby tombes. [40:12] Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so again doctor manpord Be tech has discovered [40:15] Speaker 2: it again. You can also tell me tell me about [40:17] Speaker 2: the tombes. [40:18] Speaker 1: What do you know? [40:20] Speaker 2: Well, it's not the tones, it's the great Barkers. I [40:25] Speaker 2: just at this justin. [40:29] Speaker 1: We'll try this again. Okay. So I'm asking you about [40:31] Speaker 1: the actual evidence and what what you keep saying is names. Listen, [40:36] Speaker 1: I know there are Egyptologists. I know I know that [40:40] Speaker 1: there are Christian Egyptologists. Even everyone knows that. [40:43] Speaker 2: I'm I'm asking you. [40:47] Speaker 1: I'm asking you to give me the actual evidence that [40:51] Speaker 1: you know about. Don't give me a guy that I [40:53] Speaker 1: have to go read. Tell me about the actual evidence. [40:56] Speaker 5: What do you know? [40:58] Speaker 2: He is? He is? He is discovered right and in [41:01] Speaker 2: his research that there is a grave markers with inside [41:05] Speaker 2: of Goshen, what we consider Goshen, right, it's called the Barus. [41:08] Speaker 2: He wrote his book on it. Therefore, he has discovered [41:11] Speaker 2: that in regards to what took place with the unlive [41:14] Speaker 2: and give the children there is a ratio from women [41:17] Speaker 2: or girls to two men or to boys. Should I [41:21] Speaker 2: say because of that separation of the hips during birth? [41:26] Speaker 2: All right, we all know how women it's irrelevant. It's [41:31] Speaker 2: still spreading of a hip. Yeah, women's hipnesh, yes? Correct? [41:39] Speaker 1: Do you think only Hebrew women? Do you think only [41:41] Speaker 1: Hebrew women have hips that spread when they get pregnant? [41:45] Speaker 2: Well, then you have to explain whether you have to explain, [41:49] Speaker 2: which is also on the book on Papyrus. The Hebrew [41:55] Speaker 2: names that are scovered with inside. [41:56] Speaker 1: The name, they're not Hebrew. Okay, I'm going to stop [41:58] Speaker 1: you now because you haven't read to any of these [42:00] Speaker 1: sources obviously, So these are these are Hebrew names, These [42:04] Speaker 1: are Semitic names, the Hebrews, the Hebrews, the Hebrews. What [42:11] Speaker 1: do you think the Hebrews are a subset of these [42:14] Speaker 1: Semitic speaking people, just like there are like multiple subsets [42:18] Speaker 1: of the Asian language, which is why even among the [42:22] Speaker 1: Asian dialects, you'll see names that show up in Mandarin [42:25] Speaker 1: that also show up in not. [42:29] Speaker 2: Try this again. [42:30] Speaker 1: So even in the Asian country point, I'm not going [42:34] Speaker 1: to prove anything if you don't shut up. So even [42:37] Speaker 1: in the Asian country. [42:39] Speaker 2: You're literally you're literally proving. [42:41] Speaker 1: It's crazy that I have to keep muting. You just [42:43] Speaker 1: say a word, Okay. So in Asian countries, what we [42:46] Speaker 1: find is that people that are in the Asian language family, [42:50] Speaker 1: there are names that transcend all the different language families. Now, [42:55] Speaker 1: just because somebody came from a Mandarin speaking subsect of [42:59] Speaker 1: the Asian languages doesn't mean that if we find that [43:03] Speaker 1: name in another Asian sub sect, that they came from [43:07] Speaker 1: the Mandarin sub sect. Just like if we find somebody [43:11] Speaker 1: that has a Semitic name, it doesn't mean that they [43:14] Speaker 1: came from the Hebrews. It means that they came from [43:16] Speaker 1: the Semitic family, and there are different Semitic languages that [43:20] Speaker 1: shared name. There are Hebrew names that existed prior to Hebrew. [43:26] Speaker 1: There are non Hebrew names that show up in Hebrew [43:30] Speaker 1: because they're all part of the Semitic family. That's how [43:33] Speaker 1: that works. So, yes, were there Semitic. [43:36] Speaker 2: I'll try this again. [43:37] Speaker 1: There are Semitic names found in fact in Egypt because [43:42] Speaker 1: there were Semites in Egypt. The Egyptians even wrote about it. [43:45] Speaker 1: The Egyptians referred to them as hicksas and Yes, in [43:49] Speaker 1: the Brooklyn Papyrus, there are in fact Semitic names. There [43:53] Speaker 1: are in fact Semitic names found in the Brooklyn Papyrus [43:57] Speaker 1: because there were actual Semites and Hebrews. Almost if you [44:05] Speaker 1: stopped talking long enough for me to. [44:07] Speaker 2: Explain its unsufferable. I was quiet for three minutes. Dude. [44:10] Speaker 2: We'll try this again. [44:11] Speaker 1: So the reason why the Brooklyn Papyrus has Semitic names [44:15] Speaker 1: is because they were in fact Semites that went down [44:18] Speaker 1: and made a stronghold in Egypt. Now you're never and again, [44:21] Speaker 1: guess when this happened? [44:22] Speaker 2: Do you know when? You know about about when this happened? Oh, [44:27] Speaker 2: so I get a chance to speak now, So again [44:30] Speaker 2: the timeframe we really don't know I would I would [44:32] Speaker 2: say probably right around the early Bronze Age, probably mid [44:36] Speaker 2: Bronze Age. According to try again, when was the Brooklyn [44:41] Speaker 2: Papyrus dated, Well, it was discovered in eighteen like the [44:46] Speaker 2: mid eighteen. [44:47] Speaker 1: Yes, and when is the text dated to. [44:51] Speaker 2: It's irrelevant, we don't it kind of is okay, So [44:54] Speaker 2: we'll try this again. [44:55] Speaker 1: So the Brooklyn Papyrus has dated to the fifth century BCE, [44:58] Speaker 1: the fifth century even by even by the account of. [45:03] Speaker 2: The round, even by because I said that, and you're wrong. [45:07] Speaker 1: That's the middle of the Iron Age, you dummy. This [45:11] Speaker 1: guy did not go to school. [45:12] Speaker 2: Okay, so we know for a fact from the Egyptians. [45:17] Speaker 2: We'll try it is. [45:18] Speaker 1: Yes, the Iron Age starts at one thousand. [45:20] Speaker 2: Yes, no, no, it was clearly it clearly according to [45:25] Speaker 2: I just said that. According to the sources that I [45:27] Speaker 2: just described. I just sided them, the Bronze Age ends [45:31] Speaker 2: at one thousand BCE. I don't care when it ends. [45:35] Speaker 1: Okay, so we'll try this again. Okay, So if the [45:38] Speaker 1: Brooklyn Papyrus is dated to four one hundred to four [45:42] Speaker 1: point fifty BCE, that puts it in the middle of [45:45] Speaker 1: the Iron Age, which starts at one thousand. In fact, [45:48] Speaker 1: it's about five hundred years after the start of the [45:51] Speaker 1: Iron Age, which means it's not in the Bronze Age. [45:54] Speaker 2: No, according to the leading archaeologist, guy'sn't describe. He declares [45:59] Speaker 2: that it was right around the thirteen or probably right [46:02] Speaker 2: around the early to mid Bronze Age. He does what [46:06] Speaker 2: he says, Yes, he literally does does. Of course, you [46:10] Speaker 2: literally haven't read anything from either sources that I've described [46:13] Speaker 2: to you. [46:14] Speaker 5: He does. [46:15] Speaker 1: He does not date it, He does not date it [46:17] Speaker 1: to that time period. [46:18] Speaker 2: Yes, he literally does. Doctor David Roll literally dates it [46:21] Speaker 2: at that point, so does doctor Manford b tech. Again [46:24] Speaker 2: the language, but. [46:25] Speaker 1: The language it was written in doesn't even exist in [46:27] Speaker 1: that time period. Yes it does. No, it doesn't. [46:30] Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, it does. It doesn't prove it. [46:34] Speaker 2: Don't say it justin come on, I thought. [46:37] Speaker 1: You were better than Okay, what language was it written in? [46:41] Speaker 2: What language was what written? [46:42] Speaker 1: What language was the bookrin of Prepart written in. [46:47] Speaker 2: Egyptian? [46:49] Speaker 6: Be kind. [46:53] Speaker 2: Again, that's irrelevant. [46:54] Speaker 6: Word. [46:54] Speaker 1: Do you not know that the Egyptians have multiple languages? [46:58] Speaker 2: Yes, I'm well aware of okay, and which which in which? [47:02] Speaker 2: And which? That's going to be damn near compience. Which language? [47:06] Speaker 1: Which language did they use? [47:11] Speaker 2: Again? That's that's if it's multicultural languages? Just what that [47:15] Speaker 2: means they're bilingual. That means you don't we don't know [47:17] Speaker 2: what was truly written. And I mean calligraphy. I'm assuming [47:20] Speaker 2: that not the calligraphy put in the picture the picture. [47:24] Speaker 2: What is that called when you write. [47:27] Speaker 1: In a picture form hieroglyphic? [47:31] Speaker 2: Well, no, it's not. There's a there's a certain word [47:33] Speaker 2: for it, not hieroglyphic. Hieroglyphic. [47:40] Speaker 1: Okay, so the language, the language that it was written [47:44] Speaker 1: in is late stage Middle Egyptian, right, and so what [47:49] Speaker 1: we find which which what we what we find is [47:54] Speaker 1: that this is not hieroglyphic. In fact, if like, if [47:56] Speaker 1: you look at the traditional writings from the Bronze Age, [48:01] Speaker 1: they are literally written still in hieroglyphics. Typically, the Brooklyn [48:05] Speaker 1: Papyrus was not written in hieroglyphics. [48:09] Speaker 2: Yes, it was. It was translated from it literally was [48:12] Speaker 2: it was translated. Why don't you Wikipedia, I'll just put [48:17] Speaker 2: it a discover who. I'll just put it on for you. [48:20] Speaker 1: Since since you keep lying, okay, this is not hieroglyphic, [48:26] Speaker 1: then what is it? It's not hieroglyphic. [48:29] Speaker 6: What is it? [48:34] Speaker 2: Answer the question? Don't run this is hieroglyphic. I don't know. [48:38] Speaker 2: Oh sorry, wrong page. [48:39] Speaker 1: Let me grab. This is Egyptian hieroglyph That that's what [48:45] Speaker 1: Egyptian hieroglyph looks like. Although it's a little blurry. [48:48] Speaker 2: See if you can see it there. I can't see that. [48:51] Speaker 1: That's Egyptian. That's Egyptian hieroglyphic. What we're looking at here, [48:56] Speaker 1: what we're looking at here is not hieroglyphic. [48:59] Speaker 2: Okay, so you pulled up a papyrus. You pulled up [49:03] Speaker 2: a papyrus I pulled up. Yes, you literally pulled up [49:08] Speaker 2: a translation from the hieroglyphic itself, that is, in fact [49:13] Speaker 2: the document. [49:14] Speaker 6: When when When? When? [49:15] Speaker 2: When did we discover? [49:17] Speaker 6: When? [49:17] Speaker 2: When did any culture in the world discovered that you [49:20] Speaker 2: can translate, to be able to translate from hieroglyphs to [49:25] Speaker 2: any form of language. We all know how translations work. [49:29] Speaker 2: Answer the question, don't dodge. Answer the question a year? [49:33] Speaker 2: What year? No, you didn't. What year was mankind be [49:38] Speaker 2: able to understand what the hieroglyphics read and translated into any. [49:42] Speaker 1: When did we decipher hieroglyphics? [49:46] Speaker 2: Not that long ago? Actually, actually it's about about one [49:50] Speaker 2: hundred and fifty years ago. [49:51] Speaker 1: Yes, yah, I just said not that long ago. [49:53] Speaker 2: So what what you have in the ago? In fact, [49:57] Speaker 2: it's probably about twelve to four generations. [49:59] Speaker 1: So what you have is a demotic script in Egyptian. [50:03] Speaker 1: A demotic script in Egyptian is characteristic of the Iron Age, [50:08] Speaker 1: not the Bronze Age. A hieroglyphic script would be Bronze Age. [50:12] Speaker 1: You'd be wrong. [50:14] Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, Manford. You said menaphord be [50:16] Speaker 2: Tech is a Christian. [50:17] Speaker 6: He's not. [50:17] Speaker 1: I didn't say he was a Christian. [50:21] Speaker 2: If you rewind. [50:22] Speaker 1: And so what I said is I know that Egyptologists [50:26] Speaker 1: exists and some of them are Christian. Those were my [50:29] Speaker 1: little words. I never said Manford never said that Stanford [50:34] Speaker 1: Tech was a Christians. [50:36] Speaker 2: You said my sources. I certainly did not. You certainly did. [50:40] Speaker 1: No, I didn't. So you're not good at this, like [50:44] Speaker 1: you're you're really you're really bad at this. So the [50:48] Speaker 1: Brooklyn Papyrus doesn't doesn't show anything that you actually think [50:52] Speaker 1: that it says. [50:53] Speaker 2: The Brooklyn Papyrus actually is a. [50:58] Speaker 1: It doesn't. It doesn't even come close to the Bronze Age, [51:00] Speaker 1: is dated in the middle of the Iron. [51:03] Speaker 2: Age midwives that were born, as well as the decree [51:06] Speaker 2: that the Pharaoh gay about. [51:07] Speaker 1: It does not a lot. [51:09] Speaker 2: It literally does, it doesn't. It literally does, it doesn't. [51:14] Speaker 2: It literally does it doesn't. Basically, what all you're saying [51:17] Speaker 2: is not. All you're saying is not. I I'm matching [51:23] Speaker 2: what you're saying. [51:24] Speaker 1: Justin show me in the Brooklyn Proprietors where it says [51:26] Speaker 1: anything about Hebrew midwives. [51:29] Speaker 2: You know, so you know what you know, what's a [51:31] Speaker 2: medical text, dummy? Actually, no, it's not. It is No, [51:36] Speaker 2: it's not. [51:37] Speaker 1: It is. [51:37] Speaker 2: Well, well, pregnancy is considered medical. [51:41] Speaker 1: Okay, So literally, like the very first paragraph from the [51:45] Speaker 1: wiki the Brooklyn Papyrus known as the Brooklyn the Brooklyn [51:49] Speaker 1: and the Brooklyn Medical listen, I know, like you're getting [51:55] Speaker 1: uncomfortable and like you're feeling like this squishy stuff. You're [51:58] Speaker 1: feeling like this weird puishy stuff on your backside because [52:01] Speaker 1: you're taking backshots right now. But it's literally known as [52:04] Speaker 1: the Brooklyn Medical Papyrus. [52:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, pregnancy is considered medical, and you're taking face shots [52:10] Speaker 2: justin and you're taking money shots. [52:12] Speaker 1: Not even not even close. You've been wrong on literally [52:14] Speaker 1: everything you said about the Brooklyn paprias so far you [52:17] Speaker 1: have yet you have. [52:19] Speaker 2: Literally no idea. You have literally no idea what you're [52:21] Speaker 2: talking about. [52:22] Speaker 1: I literally showed you, I literally showed you the demotic [52:28] Speaker 1: script that it was written, and I put it on [52:29] Speaker 1: the screen. [52:30] Speaker 2: It was written in a demotic script, not hieroglyphics. That [52:34] Speaker 2: literally proves nothing. [52:35] Speaker 1: It proves that it was written in demotic if you [52:38] Speaker 1: want to prove, if you want that, it proves that [52:42] Speaker 1: it was a demotic script, and if you just look [52:45] Speaker 1: up when demotic script was used, it was used in [52:47] Speaker 1: the Iron Age, which is why it's dated to the [52:51] Speaker 1: Iron Age. Also, why does this say? Is it just mirror? [52:58] Speaker 1: Does this sound like praise? [52:59] Speaker 2: I am no, this is not for his arm. [53:02] Speaker 1: Oh you guys sound a lot alike. I think he [53:03] Speaker 1: has this cry the same way I have. [53:05] Speaker 2: A I have a severe, extremely severe sonus infection. [53:09] Speaker 1: I'm sure you do. Yeah, dude, I have a brain [53:14] Speaker 1: infection involved a crawl up into your brain kevity. [53:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of disorder. I guess. Okay, So the brooklet [53:24] Speaker 2: put pirus. Hold on, you're asking me a question. I'm [53:27] Speaker 2: trying to answer that, so give me just a second. [53:29] Speaker 2: So okay, Uh, the brooklyt for Pyrus. According to doctor [53:34] Speaker 2: Titus Kennedy, which I will make the statement, he is [53:37] Speaker 2: a Christian. He is also an Egyptologist and a scholar [53:41] Speaker 2: of the New Testament. So okay, according to him, Uh, [53:44] Speaker 2: it does. It does contain not only Semitic names. [53:49] Speaker 1: But sorry, did he did he say Semitic names names? [53:54] Speaker 2: Hold on? I heard I heard the word semitic. It's [53:57] Speaker 2: almost it's almost like he said semitical hospital don't hit [54:01] Speaker 2: the gaspital justin, don't press the gaspital. Hold on, keep [54:04] Speaker 2: it neutral. [54:05] Speaker 1: You know, you know, you know that some Semitic names [54:07] Speaker 1: are Hebrew, right, you know that right, Some Semitic names [54:09] Speaker 1: are Hebrew. [54:10] Speaker 2: Actually they're two different they're two different names better. So [54:13] Speaker 2: according to according to doctor Titus Kennedy, they are. So [54:16] Speaker 2: he states, he states that in the seventeenth century BC, [54:22] Speaker 2: it contains not only Semitic names, but even he's not [54:25] Speaker 2: from according to an archaeologist, according to all the other archaeologists, [54:32] Speaker 2: that's wrong. It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. So again, [54:35] Speaker 2: a section in the papyrus contains a list of ninety [54:38] Speaker 2: five servants, and you can read his book An Earth [54:41] Speaker 2: Thing the Bible. I think it's Paige. Let me get [54:44] Speaker 2: let me get this right. So I'm not wrong. So [54:46] Speaker 2: it's going to be Paige fifty eight. He clearly demonstrates [54:52] Speaker 2: that ninety five servants within that papyrus, which is the [54:55] Speaker 2: Brooklyn Provirus, of whom are of Asiatic descent. Which is [54:59] Speaker 2: going to be Yeah, they have Semitic names. [55:02] Speaker 1: I know we already covered this, okay, so maybe i'll [55:07] Speaker 1: just I'll just explain to you why this is a [55:09] Speaker 1: bad talking point. I'll just kind of cut to the chase. [55:12] Speaker 1: So everyone knows that there were Semites in Egypt. They [55:15] Speaker 1: were literally called the Hixsos. There were so many of [55:18] Speaker 1: them that they literally waged a war against the Egyptians. [55:22] Speaker 1: They went to war against the Egyptians, and the Egyptians [55:25] Speaker 1: chased them out of Egypt. They ruled Egypt for a [55:28] Speaker 1: time period. They were called the Hixos, not the Hebrews now. Now, [55:33] Speaker 1: the Brooklyn Papyrus, which dates to the fifth century BCE, [55:38] Speaker 1: has Semitic names in it, and in fact some of [55:41] Speaker 1: them are hebrew And the reason for that is because [55:44] Speaker 1: when the Assyrians invaded, and then when the Babylonians subsequently invaded, [55:49] Speaker 1: people left, they fled for their lives and they set [55:52] Speaker 1: up an entire town, multiple towns in Egypt where Hebrews [55:57] Speaker 1: were living. That's why so many of them were keen [56:00] Speaker 1: to translate the Hebrew Bible into the Greek language while [56:05] Speaker 1: they were in Egypt, because a lot of them never [56:07] Speaker 1: came back. They went to Egypt and they never came back. [56:10] Speaker 1: There were a lot of Hebrews in Egypt during the [56:13] Speaker 1: Hellenistic period. [56:16] Speaker 2: But were You're you're you're fast forwarding all the way [56:19] Speaker 2: to the Hellenistic period though. [56:20] Speaker 1: That's when it's that's when the Brooklyn preparus is dated to. [56:23] Speaker 2: No, it's not, it's literally dated to the seventeenth century BC. [56:27] Speaker 2: You'd be wrong according too, Well, it's it's not. I'm [56:30] Speaker 2: not making a claim that it is. I'm only citing [56:32] Speaker 2: what doctor Titus Kennedy has stated. [56:35] Speaker 1: And I would and I would disagree with Titus Kennedy, [56:38] Speaker 1: and I agree with the other scholars that say otherwise. [56:42] Speaker 2: And you're allowed to do that more probably Dan m. McLellan. [56:45] Speaker 2: But hey, that's fine, So okay, according to Accordion again further, [56:49] Speaker 2: he goes on to repeat three names that are Hebrew [56:52] Speaker 2: that really generate from the tribes. So again you're gonna [56:56] Speaker 2: have to make that distinction of whether this is when [56:58] Speaker 2: he touched you or if it's some of the names [57:01] Speaker 2: are in fact Hebrew. [57:03] Speaker 1: And as it turns out, if you read the archaeology, [57:06] Speaker 1: the original ten tribes of the North were not believed [57:10] Speaker 1: to actually be part of the same Judean tribes, like [57:13] Speaker 1: if you read the writings, not the lost tribes we're [57:17] Speaker 1: talking about in the Canaanite era, the leading research shows that, [57:23] Speaker 1: in fact, the Israelites were originally Canaanites, not to be [57:27] Speaker 1: confused with the Judeans. They were a separate people group. [57:30] Speaker 1: The Judeans certainly came from the land of Midian and [57:34] Speaker 1: even some of them could have come from the outskirts [57:36] Speaker 1: of Egypt, but the northern tribes seemed to be derived [57:40] Speaker 1: from actual Canaanites. So, now that being said, I don't [57:45] Speaker 1: think any of that is relevant to what we're talking about, [57:48] Speaker 1: because no one's disagreeing that there were Semites in Egypt. [57:53] Speaker 1: The question that you have to ask yourself is when [57:56] Speaker 1: were they there, what were they doing there, and what [57:59] Speaker 1: happened into them? And as far as we know from archaeology, [58:03] Speaker 1: there was a huge expulsion of the Hixsos after a [58:06] Speaker 1: huge war. [58:08] Speaker 2: That's what we know. And you said, you said, what [58:14] Speaker 2: we know, where is the evidence that suggest that what [58:17] Speaker 2: we supposedly know where is this expulsion time frame? [58:23] Speaker 1: The expulsion of the Hicksos was in roughly around the [58:27] Speaker 1: sixteen hundreds, maybe even the late seventeen hundreds, but most [58:32] Speaker 1: people dated to the sixteen hundreds, so the the Hixsos [58:37] Speaker 1: were already there three hundred years prior, so the Hiksos [58:42] Speaker 1: started populating Egypt around the time of Abraham. [58:46] Speaker 2: No, the Hiksos, that was, the Hixsos came after No [58:50] Speaker 2: Rung Again, No, the Hixsos is actually the one actually [58:54] Speaker 2: after God with all the plagues and everything else. And [58:58] Speaker 2: they basically based we went on about their business and [59:01] Speaker 2: I'm talking about the Hebrews. Then the Hiksos came in [59:03] Speaker 2: and finished, Yeah, that's not clean it basically the cleanup crew. No, actually, [59:08] Speaker 2: that is true. This is certainly not true as a [59:10] Speaker 2: matter of fact. That is, as a matter of fact, [59:11] Speaker 2: that is, the. [59:12] Speaker 1: Hixsos expulsion was in the sixteen hundreds, before the supposed [59:15] Speaker 1: biblical expulsion. [59:18] Speaker 2: Well, no, again, you understand that it's working backwards, right, [59:21] Speaker 2: So if you're saying, if you're making the clay it [59:23] Speaker 2: literally is if you're making the claim that this happened [59:26] Speaker 2: in sixteen BCE, right, so guess what comes before that? [59:32] Speaker 2: Seventeen Right, that's how they're placulating the date. [59:36] Speaker 1: We'll try this again, the biblical exodus. The biblical exodus [59:40] Speaker 1: was in the middle of the fourteen hundred, according to [59:43] Speaker 1: First Kings Chapter six. We don't know when the first [59:46] Speaker 1: Kings chapter six tells. [59:47] Speaker 2: You when it was No, it doesn't it Okay, you [59:49] Speaker 2: haven't read the Bible there though, I'll read it for you. [59:53] Speaker 1: Don't. [59:53] Speaker 2: Don't worry. [59:54] Speaker 1: It'll be but I'll take care of it. First Kings [1:00:01] Speaker 1: chapter six in the four hundred and eightieth year after [1:00:04] Speaker 1: the Israelites came out of the land of Egypt. In [1:00:06] Speaker 1: the fourth year of Solomon's reign over Israel, in the [1:00:09] Speaker 1: months of zev which is the second month, he began [1:00:12] Speaker 1: to build the House of the Lord. By almost all accounts, [1:00:15] Speaker 1: scholars agree that the solomon of Temple was built around [1:00:18] Speaker 1: the nine sixties and nine seventies, which means all you [1:00:21] Speaker 1: got to do is count four hundred and eighty years [1:00:23] Speaker 1: prior and you get. [1:00:24] Speaker 2: To the middle of the fourteen hundred. So you're you're [1:00:27] Speaker 2: appealing to at pocains, right, No, I'm not. I'm appealing [1:00:32] Speaker 2: to the Bible art. You're appealing to at pocalyms. [1:00:35] Speaker 7: No I'm not. [1:00:35] Speaker 1: I'm appealing to the calculations. I'm appealing to your first [1:00:39] Speaker 1: of all scholars. First of all, that's literally the only scholars. [1:00:42] Speaker 1: We'll try this again. So that's literally been your entire argument, [1:00:45] Speaker 1: The entire time you've been up. So it's a little [1:00:47] Speaker 1: hypocritical for you to say that I can't refer to scholars, [1:00:50] Speaker 1: but I can literally just refer you to an actual [1:00:53] Speaker 1: timeline from Bishop James Usher, who's laid out why in [1:00:58] Speaker 1: fact we know that that is they So if you [1:01:00] Speaker 1: actually put together a timeline, we know that the Babylonians [1:01:03] Speaker 1: invaded at six So five that was their first incursion [1:01:07] Speaker 1: into Judea, wasn't it. [1:01:11] Speaker 2: I would disagree with that because again, we. [1:01:13] Speaker 1: Really what evidence the Babylonians told you. [1:01:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, the reason why I'm making this assertion is because [1:01:21] Speaker 2: you do understand how the Roman calendar only had ten months, right, [1:01:26] Speaker 2: you know. [1:01:27] Speaker 1: But we're not talking about the Roman calendar. We're talking [1:01:29] Speaker 1: about years. [1:01:30] Speaker 2: We'll actually we are, we were not we are the. [1:01:32] Speaker 1: Roman calendar still had the Roman calendar still had like [1:01:35] Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty four days. [1:01:39] Speaker 2: That's actually number. [1:01:40] Speaker 1: Of months of their relevance. [1:01:42] Speaker 2: No, actually it is. It actually is a very relevant [1:01:45] Speaker 2: because again, if they if the Romans, which were they, [1:01:49] Speaker 2: you know, the basically the Krim de la Krim of timekeeping. [1:01:54] Speaker 2: But the Romans have nothing to do with this, by [1:01:56] Speaker 2: the way, Well yeah, actually it does. [1:01:59] Speaker 1: But we're not taking No, we're not. [1:02:03] Speaker 2: So what we're doing is we're using the Julian calendar. [1:02:07] Speaker 1: The Roman calendar had three hundred and fifty five days [1:02:10] Speaker 1: in it, and in fact that I don't know if [1:02:13] Speaker 1: you know this. The modern calendar doesn't have three hundred [1:02:17] Speaker 1: and fifty five days in it, does it? [1:02:19] Speaker 6: No? [1:02:20] Speaker 2: How many how many days are in the modern calendars? [1:02:24] Speaker 2: Sixty five? [1:02:24] Speaker 1: Oh, it's almost like it's different by ten days. All right, congratulations. [1:02:27] Speaker 1: So what we're not doing is using the Roman calendar. Now, [1:02:30] Speaker 1: as it turned out, the Jews didn't use the Roman [1:02:32] Speaker 1: calendar either. The Jews used the Jewish calendar. And as [1:02:35] Speaker 1: it turns out, if you count the years using either [1:02:39] Speaker 1: the Roman calendar or the Jewish calendar, what you still [1:02:43] Speaker 1: end up with is basically the same number of years. [1:02:46] Speaker 6: No, you do not. [1:02:47] Speaker 2: I'll tell you the reasons why is because you have [1:02:49] Speaker 2: to keep an account the Jewish New Year. When is [1:02:52] Speaker 2: the Jewish New Years? No, it's not how many fall [1:03:00] Speaker 2: Rochashana is in the fall? You dip shit? [1:03:02] Speaker 1: Are you sure about that? [1:03:05] Speaker 2: Yes, it's right around August September going into October. [1:03:08] Speaker 1: Yes it is, okay, you might be right on that [1:03:10] Speaker 1: one Roshashana is listed this year for September. You get [1:03:14] Speaker 1: a point, Thank you, You get one point. You get [1:03:17] Speaker 1: one point. [1:03:18] Speaker 2: That's that's that's from here, okay. [1:03:19] Speaker 1: And how many days and how many days are in [1:03:22] Speaker 1: the Hebrew calendar? [1:03:25] Speaker 2: Well that I can't tell you, because well that seems to. [1:03:28] Speaker 1: Be the important part, because we're counting days in a year. [1:03:30] Speaker 1: So how many days? How many days are they? How [1:03:34] Speaker 1: many days? How many days are in the Jewish year? [1:03:41] Speaker 2: If I want to say, I think it's right around [1:03:43] Speaker 2: three sixty two. [1:03:44] Speaker 1: I think about three fifty three to three fifty five. Okay, [1:03:49] Speaker 1: So what you get then is the difference of maybe [1:03:51] Speaker 1: ten days right. [1:03:56] Speaker 2: Thereabouts. I'm looking it up right now to verify. Okay. [1:04:00] Speaker 1: Now, if we're counting from let's just say zero to [1:04:07] Speaker 1: the invasion by the Babylonians in Judea six so five, [1:04:10] Speaker 1: let's imagine that there's just like ten days missing. Well, [1:04:13] Speaker 1: that's easy. We just take six five and we can [1:04:16] Speaker 1: multiply it by ten, and what you end up with [1:04:20] Speaker 1: is a difference. [1:04:22] Speaker 2: Oh excuse me. [1:04:23] Speaker 1: What you end up with is the difference of about [1:04:25] Speaker 1: six hundred and fifty days, so, which means you have [1:04:29] Speaker 1: a variance of only a couple of years. [1:04:32] Speaker 2: Yeah, according to the AI overview Google al. [1:04:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, of course you'd be using Google AI rather rather [1:04:39] Speaker 1: than your brain. [1:04:40] Speaker 2: You're basically you're literally doing the same thing. Literally type [1:04:44] Speaker 2: you literally are you're talking, I am typing. [1:04:47] Speaker 1: I don't use AI because AI doesn't give you appropriate answers. [1:04:50] Speaker 1: What AI does is it scans the Internet, and it [1:04:52] Speaker 1: gives you what it thinks our answers, and it has [1:04:54] Speaker 1: no way of actually knowing what is a good answer [1:04:57] Speaker 1: from a bad answer, which is why using AI is [1:04:59] Speaker 1: always a losing argument. [1:05:02] Speaker 2: Bro Okay, your argument is Wikipedia. I don't know if [1:05:06] Speaker 2: you know. [1:05:06] Speaker 1: This is based on actual sources, and actual professionals have [1:05:10] Speaker 1: already went through Wikipedia and rated the accuracy of Wikipedia, [1:05:13] Speaker 1: and as it turns out, they're just as accurate as [1:05:16] Speaker 1: any other encyclopedia we've ever had. So well, I don't [1:05:20] Speaker 1: think that Wikipedia, well, I don't agree that Wikipedia is [1:05:25] Speaker 1: always right. What I do agree is that the sources [1:05:28] Speaker 1: in Wikipedia are usually pretty good sources. Now, if you [1:05:30] Speaker 1: don't like what the sources, you can disagree with the [1:05:33] Speaker 1: actual sources Wikipedia. [1:05:36] Speaker 2: I'm sorry, academia does not recognize Wikipedia as. [1:05:40] Speaker 1: Wikipedia is not a source at all. That's what I [1:05:42] Speaker 1: keep telling you. A Wikipedia, Wikipedia is not a source. [1:05:47] Speaker 1: Wikipedia is a competitively of sources within. Wikipedia is a [1:05:52] Speaker 1: collection of sources. [1:05:55] Speaker 2: Yes, but when you try to put it in a dissertation, [1:05:57] Speaker 2: guess what you're going to get a failing because because it's. [1:06:00] Speaker 1: Not a no, it's not at all. [1:06:03] Speaker 2: Therefore it's not recognized with academia. Try this again. [1:06:08] Speaker 1: So Wikipedia is not a reliable Wikipedia is not a [1:06:12] Speaker 1: reliable source because it's not a source. What it is [1:06:16] Speaker 1: is like entries written by people with sources. The sources [1:06:20] Speaker 1: are included in the articles. So if you want the sources, [1:06:24] Speaker 1: you have to read the sources that are listed. Wikipedia [1:06:27] Speaker 1: itself is not a source. [1:06:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sure whatever. Okay, So according to reform Judaism [1:06:35] Speaker 2: dot org a solar year which Jews do not recognize [1:06:38] Speaker 2: the solar They only recognize the lunar. They consider it [1:06:41] Speaker 2: three hundred fifty five and one fourth to the day. Now, [1:06:44] Speaker 2: the difference between the twelve days per per per year, [1:06:48] Speaker 2: which is added, which you were somewhat somewhat, I'm going [1:06:53] Speaker 2: to give you a little bit of leniency on that [1:06:55] Speaker 2: because it's only two day different being right, Yeah, I [1:06:58] Speaker 2: literally said no, No. [1:07:00] Speaker 1: If you multiply six hundred and five by the number [1:07:04] Speaker 1: of days that are not on the lunar calendar, you [1:07:07] Speaker 1: only get a variance of one to two years, which [1:07:09] Speaker 1: means the building of Solomon's temple seems to be when [1:07:14] Speaker 1: the scholars date it to when you do the timeline. [1:07:17] Speaker 1: It also seems to be the case of the exodus. [1:07:21] Speaker 2: No, okay again, well okay, let me ask you this. [1:07:24] Speaker 2: So you keep making this claim, and a lot of [1:07:26] Speaker 2: atheists also make this claim that scholars use the dating. [1:07:30] Speaker 2: So what program are they suggesting that this supposedly took place. [1:07:35] Speaker 1: They're not using a program, that's the glory of the thing. [1:07:38] Speaker 1: So what you do is you start out with the [1:07:40] Speaker 1: modern timeline and then you start adding in dates that [1:07:44] Speaker 1: you know, like we know when zero, we know we [1:07:49] Speaker 1: know when zero is, and we can start adding stuff [1:07:52] Speaker 1: to the timeline before and after zero. Zero is a [1:07:56] Speaker 1: definitive point on the timeline. [1:07:58] Speaker 2: Do you agree, because zero cannot be measured. So no, [1:08:01] Speaker 2: that's not that it is twenty twenty five on the timeline. [1:08:06] Speaker 2: Of course, because there's no zero and there is a [1:08:09] Speaker 2: zero on the timeline. Are you insane? No, there's not. [1:08:14] Speaker 2: You didn't know there was a zero measure. So zero [1:08:17] Speaker 2: divided by zero is what that's crazy. Zero times zero [1:08:24] Speaker 2: is what that's math. We're not we're not saying zero. [1:08:29] Speaker 2: We're not saying that zero is what. We're not saying [1:08:31] Speaker 2: that zero exists. [1:08:33] Speaker 5: Zero. [1:08:33] Speaker 1: We're saying that zero is the zero is the dividing mark. [1:08:38] Speaker 2: Therefore, zero cannot be measured. So you do not count [1:08:41] Speaker 2: zero for anything. [1:08:42] Speaker 1: No one's measuring zero. And yes, you can use it [1:08:45] Speaker 1: in mathematics. You just can't divide by zero. [1:08:48] Speaker 2: You can't multiply by zero either. [1:08:50] Speaker 1: I know, because zero has a null value exactly. So [1:08:56] Speaker 1: the zero point on the timeline is the dem the [1:09:01] Speaker 1: the marking, the demark hater. There we go, the d [1:09:04] Speaker 1: marke hater between negative and positive numbers. That that's the datum. Okay, [1:09:11] Speaker 1: So so those stuff who actually like took engineering, you [1:09:14] Speaker 1: can figure out what a datum is. A datum is [1:09:17] Speaker 1: the zero reference. It's the starting point for the timeline, [1:09:21] Speaker 1: which would be one. No, yes, one would be the [1:09:26] Speaker 1: completed first year. Correct from zero two From zero to [1:09:32] Speaker 1: one is a year one okay. [1:09:34] Speaker 2: Let's okay, let let's let's break it down justin so [1:09:38] Speaker 2: six months Obviously you're not broad because you can't measure [1:09:41] Speaker 2: with zero. Zero is not definitive. I'll draw you. [1:09:44] Speaker 1: I'll draw you a picture. Hold on, I'll make it [1:09:48] Speaker 1: easier for you. On one second, I'm sure there's a [1:09:50] Speaker 1: free drawing app I can use. [1:09:52] Speaker 2: I had no idea. I need to get my crayons [1:09:55] Speaker 2: out for you. But go well, we'll go ahead. It's [1:09:58] Speaker 2: a lot better than glue that what you were. We'll [1:10:00] Speaker 2: go ahead and get the. [1:10:02] Speaker 1: A draw. No one's talking about measuring zero. I don't [1:10:06] Speaker 1: know why you're confused. I we're gonna go to auto draw. [1:10:11] Speaker 1: I literally did not. Okay, so here's I'm going to [1:10:13] Speaker 1: put it on the screen. [1:10:14] Speaker 2: So here's a really bad at this. You're really a liar. [1:10:20] Speaker 2: I'm really not. [1:10:21] Speaker 1: Everyone's gonna hear you lying constantly on this particular thing. [1:10:26] Speaker 6: Said. [1:10:27] Speaker 1: Okay, so, uh, this is the zero marker on the timeline. [1:10:31] Speaker 1: This is your datum point. From zero to one gets [1:10:37] Speaker 1: you one year, From zero to one, from zero to [1:10:43] Speaker 1: negative one gets you one year. You have to complete [1:10:50] Speaker 1: a year to get to the negative year. You have [1:10:53] Speaker 1: to complete a year to get two years one. There's [1:10:57] Speaker 1: no there's no year. [1:11:00] Speaker 2: Zero. [1:11:01] Speaker 1: Zero is the datum. [1:11:03] Speaker 2: You made this suggestion that zero is the beginning factor [1:11:07] Speaker 2: of all timelines. [1:11:09] Speaker 1: Question No, I said zero can be the starting point [1:11:14] Speaker 1: of our timeline because we have to count negative and [1:11:18] Speaker 1: positive from a starting point, and as it turns out, [1:11:21] Speaker 1: zero is a great starting point. So if we're just [1:11:24] Speaker 1: counting from zero negatively or positively, we can count negative [1:11:29] Speaker 1: all the way to the year six. [1:11:30] Speaker 2: So five, can we not? Not really, because again you [1:11:38] Speaker 2: have to begin to one. We can't go negative whatever. Well, [1:11:43] Speaker 2: I mean again, if you're counting. [1:11:46] Speaker 1: The negative, human beings aren't capable of counting negative years. [1:11:51] Speaker 2: I'm literally trying to answer your question. So if you [1:11:53] Speaker 2: run backwards, yes you can. But again, it's going from [1:11:58] Speaker 2: one to negative one. Now, I'll grant you zero is [1:12:02] Speaker 2: gonna be that little factory. Zero's the data. No, it [1:12:07] Speaker 2: cannot be measured, though. That's what I'm trying to get [1:12:09] Speaker 2: you done on saying measured. You literally are no. [1:12:13] Speaker 1: Try this again. We'll try this again. Zero is not [1:12:17] Speaker 1: a measurement. Zero is a data. [1:12:20] Speaker 2: To make the assertion that zero zero, zero is. [1:12:24] Speaker 1: A datum, I never said a damn thing about measuring zero. Yes, no, [1:12:28] Speaker 1: I didn't. [1:12:30] Speaker 2: I've never seen someone lie as many times as you [1:12:32] Speaker 2: have today, you're literally lying yourself. All right, So we're [1:12:37] Speaker 2: gonna do You're gonna figure out that you are like, oh, ship. [1:12:41] Speaker 1: I'll do this again. I'll do another kindergarten drawing for you. [1:12:44] Speaker 1: Here's a piece of wood, and we're gonna we're gonna [1:12:47] Speaker 1: call this corner the datum. That's zero. That that's our [1:12:51] Speaker 1: datum point. Now, if you go from zero to inch [1:12:55] Speaker 1: number one and inch number two and inch number three, [1:12:59] Speaker 1: these are men measurements from zero. Do you have to [1:13:05] Speaker 1: measure zero to know where inch number one is? Do [1:13:12] Speaker 1: you have to measure zero to know where one is? [1:13:16] Speaker 1: It's a yes or no, it's a yes or no. [1:13:18] Speaker 1: Do you have to measure zero to know where one is? [1:13:21] Speaker 1: Do you have to measure it's a yes or no? [1:13:25] Speaker 2: Listen. [1:13:26] Speaker 1: I know it's really difficult for you to answer yes [1:13:28] Speaker 1: or no questions because they don't align with what you [1:13:30] Speaker 1: were saying previously. But if you're going to be honest, [1:13:34] Speaker 1: you have to answer the question yes or no. Do [1:13:36] Speaker 1: I have to measure zero to know where one is? Okay, no, [1:13:40] Speaker 1: thank you, That's all I'm saying. So if our daytum [1:13:44] Speaker 1: is zero, I can measure I can measure one. I'm [1:13:49] Speaker 1: not measuring I'm not measuring one. I'm not measuring zero. [1:13:55] Speaker 1: We'll try this again. [1:13:56] Speaker 2: Do I have to measure zero to measure from zero [1:14:00] Speaker 2: to one? I go back to my original statement. [1:14:06] Speaker 1: Do I have to measure zero to measure from zero [1:14:09] Speaker 1: to one? [1:14:10] Speaker 2: I'm going I'm referring to my original statement. [1:14:13] Speaker 1: Okay, So then you're not going to answer the question [1:14:14] Speaker 1: because you're a coward. [1:14:18] Speaker 2: Literally, I literally answered your question. [1:14:19] Speaker 1: You didn't. [1:14:20] Speaker 2: We'll try this again. Okay, So I do I have [1:14:23] Speaker 2: to measure zero to measure from zero to one? Original statement? [1:14:30] Speaker 2: It begins with one. [1:14:32] Speaker 1: I hope your mother's not watching this. She would be [1:14:34] Speaker 1: really ashamed of this conversation. Okay, So we can start [1:14:37] Speaker 1: all the way back at the beginning of the conversation, [1:14:40] Speaker 1: which is that the. [1:14:41] Speaker 2: Bible you do not bring family members justin I'm going [1:14:43] Speaker 2: to bring you. [1:14:44] Speaker 1: I already brought your mother and it's too late. Okay, listen, [1:14:48] Speaker 1: I'll get off your mom. I already got off of [1:14:49] Speaker 1: her last night. Don't worry. [1:14:52] Speaker 2: Okay. [1:14:52] Speaker 1: So we can measure from the data point on the time, [1:14:58] Speaker 1: both negatively and positively. Now, as it turns out, I [1:15:03] Speaker 1: can I can count negative and figure out when in [1:15:07] Speaker 1: fact the Babylonians invaded Judea. Do you do you know [1:15:11] Speaker 1: how that counting works? [1:15:17] Speaker 2: Please educate? [1:15:19] Speaker 1: Okay, because they gave you their own timeline of who [1:15:22] Speaker 1: was in power when they when they did what, Yes, [1:15:25] Speaker 1: they did, they didn't literally it's in the war annals. [1:15:29] Speaker 1: They'll tell you in that in the. [1:15:31] Speaker 2: Third described Daniel described, So. [1:15:36] Speaker 1: You don't want to go to Daniels, So just pay [1:15:38] Speaker 1: attention to little child. So if you read the Babylonian chronicles, [1:15:42] Speaker 1: they'll tell you in the third year of rain so [1:15:45] Speaker 1: and so we did this. In the fifth year of [1:15:48] Speaker 1: rain so and so we did that. So alls we [1:15:51] Speaker 1: need is one so and so that we know has [1:15:54] Speaker 1: a definitive date on that timeline. A good starting point [1:15:57] Speaker 1: would be the death of Herod the Great. The death [1:15:59] Speaker 1: of haired degree seems to be a definitive point of [1:16:03] Speaker 1: negative four or four BCE on the timeline. Would you [1:16:07] Speaker 1: agree with that? [1:16:12] Speaker 2: Sure? And I'll tell you the reasons why. According to [1:16:16] Speaker 2: the new updated charts within NASA. As a matter of fact, [1:16:18] Speaker 2: you can download the app and it can measure constellations [1:16:24] Speaker 2: and everything else. The supposed time that Jesus was born, [1:16:28] Speaker 2: was not around. For you can no what I'm talking [1:16:31] Speaker 2: about jesus birth. We're talking about Herd the Great. Well, [1:16:35] Speaker 2: to institute the idea that Heir the Great actually did X, Y, [1:16:39] Speaker 2: and Z, we have to go back to A, B [1:16:40] Speaker 2: and C of Jesus' birth. We don't. [1:16:43] Speaker 1: We don't literally we don't need Jesus at all to [1:16:45] Speaker 1: know when Herod lived. [1:16:48] Speaker 2: Actually we do, because that's exactly what we literally don't. Yes, [1:16:52] Speaker 2: we are. Herod's birth is not. [1:16:55] Speaker 1: Is not dated on when Jesus was around. You can't [1:16:58] Speaker 1: be serious. We want show me. Show me one historian [1:17:01] Speaker 1: that says we know when Herod lived because the Bible said, so. [1:17:07] Speaker 2: Who put the decree out? [1:17:09] Speaker 1: Justin Quineerius And no, no, here the Great did no [1:17:16] Speaker 1: such degree. [1:17:18] Speaker 2: Oh he didn't. He didn't have He didn't he didn't [1:17:20] Speaker 2: inquire what the wise man justin? No, he did not. [1:17:25] Speaker 2: There these are these are fictional stories. Matthew is a lie. [1:17:31] Speaker 2: No it's not. [1:17:31] Speaker 1: Yes it is. It's a lie. [1:17:32] Speaker 2: It's it's you two, Matthew to Matthew two. [1:17:35] Speaker 1: The fact of all the chapters in the Bible, not [1:17:38] Speaker 1: a single chapter in the Bible tells more lies than [1:17:41] Speaker 1: Matthew Chapter two. There are so many lies in Matthew [1:17:45] Speaker 1: Chapter two it's hard to even keep count. [1:17:46] Speaker 2: But that's said. [1:17:48] Speaker 1: Not a single not a single about to Not a [1:17:51] Speaker 1: single historian, not a single historian, believes that we can [1:17:56] Speaker 1: date the reign of haird degree by reading the Bible. No, [1:18:00] Speaker 1: I'll show you what, okay, since you haven't read the Bible. [1:18:03] Speaker 1: I'll go to it like a really short, really easy one. [1:18:07] Speaker 1: Do you have a Bible on you or do I [1:18:08] Speaker 1: have to show it to you? [1:18:11] Speaker 2: No, show it for the class. Justin I. [1:18:14] Speaker 1: Can't wait Jeremiah thirty one. Sure, it says in Jeremiah [1:18:18] Speaker 1: thirty No, no, I'm about to show you. Just pay [1:18:21] Speaker 1: attention to child. No pay attention. [1:18:24] Speaker 2: Don't jump to the old time. Thus say it, the Lord. [1:18:26] Speaker 1: A voice is heard in rama, lamentation and bitter weeping. [1:18:29] Speaker 1: Rachel is weeping for her children. She refuses to be [1:18:32] Speaker 1: comforted for her children because they are no more. Thus [1:18:36] Speaker 1: say it, the Lord. Keep her voice from weeping, and [1:18:38] Speaker 1: your eyes from tears. For there is a reward for [1:18:40] Speaker 1: your work, says the Lord. They shall come back from [1:18:43] Speaker 1: the land of the enemy. There is hope for your futures, [1:18:45] Speaker 1: says the Lord, your children shall come back to their [1:18:49] Speaker 1: own country. Now, what's he saying here? What's the prophet [1:18:53] Speaker 1: saying here? [1:18:57] Speaker 2: Well, I mean he says a lot in there, so [1:18:59] Speaker 2: you gotta be more specific. [1:19:00] Speaker 1: What's he saying is going to happen? Have you read Jeremiah? [1:19:05] Speaker 2: Of course I have. [1:19:06] Speaker 1: Then what's he talking about? [1:19:08] Speaker 2: Well, apparently there's something going on that creates a lamentation. Yeah, [1:19:13] Speaker 2: like what of the well, well, I mean, we really [1:19:17] Speaker 2: don't know, because he has We don't fucking know. You've [1:19:19] Speaker 2: never read Jeremiah. Well again, I mean, of course, bro, what. [1:19:24] Speaker 1: Is Jeremiah write about in almost every chapter of the [1:19:27] Speaker 1: book Babylon? Yeah, about the Israelites being held captive or [1:19:32] Speaker 1: being taken captive into Babylon. He says they're going to [1:19:36] Speaker 1: be there for seventy years, and then they're going to [1:19:38] Speaker 1: be back after seventy years. That's literally just just two [1:19:42] Speaker 1: chapters away. If you just go to Jeremiah chapter twenty nine, [1:19:44] Speaker 1: he literally tells you that they're going to be there [1:19:47] Speaker 1: for seventy years. [1:19:49] Speaker 3: I know. [1:19:49] Speaker 1: The argument say I will bring you it says, I [1:19:51] Speaker 1: will let you find me, says the Lord, and I [1:19:53] Speaker 1: will restore your fortunes, and gather you from all the [1:19:55] Speaker 1: nations and all the places where I've driven you, says [1:19:57] Speaker 1: the Lord, and I will bring you back from the [1:19:59] Speaker 1: place which I sent you to exile. He's talking about [1:20:02] Speaker 1: the Israelites coming back from exile. [1:20:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm okay. [1:20:06] Speaker 1: So we'll get to Jeremiah thirty one, and he said [1:20:10] Speaker 1: that you'll come back from the land of the enemy. [1:20:13] Speaker 1: I mean, using common sense, what do you think he's [1:20:16] Speaker 1: talking about? [1:20:18] Speaker 2: Obviously Babylon justin. [1:20:20] Speaker 1: Obviously, yes, obviously Jeremiah is saying that the Israelites are [1:20:25] Speaker 1: going to come back from Babylon. You don't have to cry. [1:20:28] Speaker 1: They'll come back after seventy years. We agree that this [1:20:32] Speaker 1: is a pretty easy, straightforward interpretation of this passage. Right, No, [1:20:38] Speaker 1: it's not. Well, tell me what else it means. [1:20:41] Speaker 2: Well, again, you don't agree. I've heard you say sometimes [1:20:45] Speaker 2: you don't agree with types of shadows. So no, I [1:20:48] Speaker 2: an theology, sure, yeah, well in theology, that's what that's [1:20:52] Speaker 2: that's what we use. So they're in. [1:20:54] Speaker 1: Christian theology, that's what you use because you don't have [1:20:56] Speaker 1: real prophecies. [1:20:57] Speaker 2: Actually you're actually you're wrong. Oh so Jews didn't write [1:21:05] Speaker 2: the New Testament justin. [1:21:06] Speaker 1: H No, they certainly didn't. That's why it's written in Greek. [1:21:09] Speaker 1: That's why they only exclusively quote from the Greek Septegen. [1:21:13] Speaker 1: That's why they actually misunderstand. That's why they actually misunderstand [1:21:18] Speaker 1: the words that they're reading, is because they keep quoting [1:21:20] Speaker 1: from the Greek scept tuo agent. In fact, no, almost [1:21:23] Speaker 1: the only time that the New Testament authors even come [1:21:26] Speaker 1: close to pointing to the Hebrew Bible is when they say. [1:21:30] Speaker 2: That Jesus the branch from Isaiah chapter eleven. Then you're [1:21:37] Speaker 2: going to have to read. Then you're gonna have to [1:21:39] Speaker 2: explain why the jew is that the phariseeason as statues [1:21:44] Speaker 2: raised non levels of hell over the plate that was [1:21:48] Speaker 2: above Jesus's head. [1:21:50] Speaker 8: Of why didn't raise hell over? They laughed at it, [1:21:54] Speaker 8: Yes they did. They laughed the lid they went, they [1:21:59] Speaker 8: didn't make fun of the went back. [1:22:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, they made fun of them. I know, he's not [1:22:04] Speaker 2: the king of the Jews. [1:22:07] Speaker 9: That's put a crown of thorn onto on the heads [1:22:10] Speaker 9: they're making fun of Amro. Look at this, Look at [1:22:15] Speaker 9: his jackass with a crowd of literally bleeding out on [1:22:19] Speaker 9: a cross claims to be king of the Jews. [1:22:22] Speaker 2: I'm not talking about the Romans justin. I'm talking about [1:22:24] Speaker 2: the Sadducees and the Ferris. Listen, Jesus was never a king. [1:22:28] Speaker 2: He was a joke, That's what he was. [1:22:30] Speaker 1: But let's let's actually pay attention to the passage that [1:22:33] Speaker 1: we're reading. I know it's hard for you to stay [1:22:35] Speaker 1: on task when you're getting cooked, but you have to. [1:22:38] Speaker 1: You're gonna have to, You're gonna have to try a [1:22:40] Speaker 1: little bit. Okay, So I so, the the actual context [1:22:45] Speaker 1: of Jeremiah, right, is about the babyloon in captivity, isn't it? [1:22:51] Speaker 2: Again? The types and shadows is going to be. [1:22:53] Speaker 1: It's weird and weird. How you ignored my yes or [1:22:56] Speaker 1: no question? I said, the actual context of Jeremiah is [1:23:00] Speaker 1: about the Babylonian captivity. [1:23:01] Speaker 2: Isn't that We've already established that it is. [1:23:04] Speaker 1: Oh, okay, so again, now, I don't believe that I'm [1:23:07] Speaker 1: going to allow you or any other Christian to supply [1:23:11] Speaker 1: an alternative meaning that is divorced from the actual context [1:23:15] Speaker 1: of the prophecy. [1:23:16] Speaker 2: Why would I do that? Well, again, prophecies are multilayered, meaning, [1:23:21] Speaker 2: they're types of shadows of proven. Well, again, it goes [1:23:26] Speaker 2: back to what we were talking about, and so you [1:23:28] Speaker 2: can't prove it. [1:23:29] Speaker 1: So the only thing Jesus ever fulfilled types shadows. [1:23:34] Speaker 2: No, no, no, I said, you don't. You don't adhere [1:23:37] Speaker 2: to types of shadows, Justine, No, I agree. [1:23:40] Speaker 1: So you're saying that the only thing Jesus ever fulfilled [1:23:42] Speaker 1: with time. [1:23:44] Speaker 2: It's really it's really irrelevant. [1:23:46] Speaker 1: So Jesus didn't fulfill any prophecies in the original context, Well, of. [1:23:52] Speaker 2: Course he did, Like what, well, how about how about [1:23:58] Speaker 2: when he said that the love of many will wax cold? [1:24:01] Speaker 1: Well, first of all, that's not even a novel prophecy. [1:24:04] Speaker 1: Second old, that's not a prophecy about the Messiah. We're [1:24:06] Speaker 1: talking about. What he actually fulfilled was written that was [1:24:10] Speaker 1: written before he was alive. You can't you can't write [1:24:14] Speaker 1: a prophecy after somebody dies and then say that he [1:24:16] Speaker 1: fulfilled the prophecy that I wrote on the page. [1:24:19] Speaker 2: You have to point that prophecy that was actually you. [1:24:22] Speaker 1: Would have to point to a prophecy that we have [1:24:24] Speaker 1: evidence that was written before the person did it. [1:24:27] Speaker 2: Sure, Okay, how about again, we're gonna have to go [1:24:30] Speaker 2: back to the entire book of Daniel. [1:24:33] Speaker 1: Daniel Davie is my favorite book. You're not going to [1:24:35] Speaker 1: want to go to Daniel. [1:24:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't want to go to Daniel Ruse Daniel. [1:24:40] Speaker 1: Let me get Daniel nine. [1:24:41] Speaker 2: You want to go Daniel nine, Let's go Daniel two. [1:24:44] Speaker 1: Daniel two is not going to help you. Daniel too [1:24:47] Speaker 1: ends in the Greek Empire. [1:24:49] Speaker 2: No it doesn't, Yeah it does. [1:24:51] Speaker 7: No, it doesn't, it does. [1:24:53] Speaker 2: Daniel five is the one that ends. [1:24:55] Speaker 1: All of them. Do Daniel two, Daniel Sevenel eight, Daniel nine, [1:24:59] Speaker 1: Daniel ten, literally all of them in the Greek Empire? Yep, [1:25:02] Speaker 1: every single one. [1:25:02] Speaker 2: No it doesn't. Yeah does, it doesn't? [1:25:04] Speaker 1: It does? [1:25:04] Speaker 2: No, it doesn't, it does. Daniel two, Daniel two tells [1:25:09] Speaker 2: you what's going on? Yep, according to Debaconizer's dream, right, Okay, [1:25:15] Speaker 2: so where in the hell. As a matter of fact, [1:25:18] Speaker 2: there's only one there's only one argument that was based [1:25:22] Speaker 2: out of the eighteen hundreds in regards to basically an [1:25:26] Speaker 2: atheist or an agnostic. What do I care about the [1:25:28] Speaker 2: eighteen hundred four because he's the one that made this [1:25:31] Speaker 2: whole Greek or Dill plausible for you. [1:25:34] Speaker 1: No, not even close. Yes, it is no, literally Josephus [1:25:38] Speaker 1: made the argument. He was the first one, actually, joseph Josephus, [1:25:43] Speaker 1: Josepha's Josephus quite did make an argument. In fact, in [1:25:47] Speaker 1: book ten of Antiquities, he even tells you that Daniel [1:25:50] Speaker 1: chapter nine is in ty Kiss. [1:25:52] Speaker 2: You do understand, you do understand that they're the older [1:25:55] Speaker 2: I'm talking about. The fifteen hundred's version of Josephus does [1:25:59] Speaker 2: not even record that it does, So you're gonna have [1:26:02] Speaker 2: to put it literally, doesn't. [1:26:03] Speaker 3: I know it doesn't. [1:26:07] Speaker 1: I've got joe Cephis. Yeah, who did your translation? [1:26:10] Speaker 2: Yeah, well Williams, some dude named Williams from. [1:26:15] Speaker 1: The Yeah, William Whitson, right, Yes, well, yeah, that's that. [1:26:21] Speaker 1: That's what I've got behind me on the shelf. And [1:26:23] Speaker 1: guess what, You're never going to believe what's at the [1:26:24] Speaker 1: end of book ten. [1:26:27] Speaker 2: It doesn't record that, certainly does it literally doesn't? Okay, [1:26:33] Speaker 2: literally doesn't. Well, sure, y'all go ahead. This guy never learned, okay, anti. [1:26:41] Speaker 1: Then it is wild. All right, let me grab Let [1:26:45] Speaker 1: me make sure I get the the William Whitson translation. Okay, [1:26:56] Speaker 1: there we go. I'm gonna put it on the screen [1:27:00] Speaker 1: to make the text figure though hold on, it's going [1:27:02] Speaker 1: to be the very last chapter of book ten. [1:27:07] Speaker 2: And this is from the fifteen. [1:27:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the guy, the guy that wrote the one [1:27:12] Speaker 1: that you've got it is it is it. [1:27:15] Speaker 2: Is, that's an updated version. [1:27:17] Speaker 1: This is not This is not is literally not. First [1:27:23] Speaker 1: of all, how could you possibly fucking know that? [1:27:26] Speaker 2: Because it was translated into Latin? Justin? [1:27:29] Speaker 1: Oh kay, we'll try this again. Okay, what. [1:27:34] Speaker 2: I will get you? [1:27:35] Speaker 1: This one is listed by William Whitson. [1:27:40] Speaker 2: This is the one. [1:27:42] Speaker 1: Okay, it literally says Antiquities of the Jews by William [1:27:48] Speaker 1: Whitson on the screen. That that's what it says. [1:27:54] Speaker 2: It's an updated version. Justin? [1:27:56] Speaker 1: Who updated it? [1:27:57] Speaker 2: Version? [1:27:58] Speaker 1: Who updated it? [1:28:00] Speaker 6: Oh? [1:28:01] Speaker 7: I don't know. [1:28:02] Speaker 2: I'll get you hard, I'll get you my hard copy, William. [1:28:28] Speaker 1: This is a hard, unate, unupdated copy of Josephus from [1:28:35] Speaker 1: the Williams, the William Whitson translation. This was uh, this [1:28:43] Speaker 1: one was published in two thousand and six. [1:28:47] Speaker 2: Oh ship, so it's updated. It's not updated. It was updated. [1:28:50] Speaker 2: It's not updated if it was printed in two thousand [1:28:52] Speaker 2: not updated. [1:28:53] Speaker 1: It was printed. It was printed in two thousand and six. [1:28:57] Speaker 1: It was not updated updated. No, it doesn't updated. It's [1:29:00] Speaker 1: not updated. [1:29:01] Speaker 2: Holy shit, So you haven't. [1:29:05] Speaker 1: Okay, what do you think when do you think William [1:29:07] Speaker 1: When do you think William Whitson lived? [1:29:11] Speaker 2: Yeah? He lived in the seventeen hundreds, justin Oh, okay. [1:29:14] Speaker 1: Do you think William Whitson Whitson updated in two thousand [1:29:17] Speaker 1: and six? [1:29:20] Speaker 2: Again, it's been updated. Do you think who updated is? [1:29:24] Speaker 2: Do you know how translation? Who updated it is? Just [1:29:27] Speaker 2: who updated? Should justice? [1:29:29] Speaker 1: Nobody in? Nobody updated it. It's a reprint, that's what. [1:29:35] Speaker 2: Do you think a reprint is? It's an updated version. [1:29:37] Speaker 1: No, a reprint is a reprint. I've got a reprint. [1:29:40] Speaker 1: I've got a reprint of the fifteen sixty Geneva Bible. [1:29:45] Speaker 1: It's not updated. It's a reprint. [1:29:49] Speaker 2: Yes, that means it's updated in No, it is not. No, Yes, no, [1:29:55] Speaker 2: it's not. [1:29:55] Speaker 1: A reprint has no updates. You don't have to update [1:29:58] Speaker 1: something to reprint it. That's literally in the definition of reprint, [1:30:02] Speaker 1: you print it again. That's the definition of rent. [1:30:07] Speaker 2: Languages evolved. [1:30:09] Speaker 1: I agree that the word reprint means one thing, and [1:30:13] Speaker 1: it means that it was reprinted. That's why this is [1:30:15] Speaker 1: written in the language of William Whitson, not the Language [1:30:19] Speaker 1: of two thousand and six. [1:30:23] Speaker 2: I do you want me to read it to you? [1:30:26] Speaker 2: It's an updated version, so it's not do you want [1:30:33] Speaker 2: me to read it to you. No, I've clearly just [1:30:36] Speaker 2: said that wrong. [1:30:38] Speaker 1: On that, I'll just tell you. Referring to Daniel in [1:30:42] Speaker 1: the the Prophecies, says that according to the prophety of Daniel, [1:30:47] Speaker 1: he should take away political government and should spoil the [1:30:50] Speaker 1: temple and forbid the sacrifices to be offered for three [1:30:53] Speaker 1: years time. And indeed it came to pass that our [1:30:57] Speaker 1: nation suffered these things under entire kiss epiphanies according to [1:31:01] Speaker 1: Daniel's vision from from William from William. [1:31:09] Speaker 2: That still means nothing. [1:31:10] Speaker 7: That is nothing. [1:31:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, it just means that the final kingdom, according to [1:31:14] Speaker 1: Josephus in Daniel chapter nine, is in fact the Greeks, [1:31:19] Speaker 1: the same way it is in chapter eight, the same [1:31:20] Speaker 1: way it is in chapter seven, the same way it [1:31:22] Speaker 1: is in chapter two. [1:31:25] Speaker 2: No, that's not, that's a hun correct. So you're gonna [1:31:27] Speaker 2: tell me, Okay, So you're going to tell me right [1:31:32] Speaker 2: that Josephus supposedly wrote, which I don't believe that. According [1:31:36] Speaker 2: to according to the atheistic community, you can't trust Josephus [1:31:41] Speaker 2: because he's unreliable. But now here you are using. [1:31:44] Speaker 1: I've never said he was unreliable. [1:31:47] Speaker 2: You literally have just no, I haven't. [1:31:49] Speaker 1: I've never once, never, not even once, I've ever said [1:31:53] Speaker 1: that that Josephus was unreliable. As crazy as it's like [1:31:58] Speaker 1: you're living in an alter that universe. [1:32:02] Speaker 2: No, that's you're one hundred percent wrong. I've heard you [1:32:05] Speaker 2: in lives before, justin gaslighting, not only myself, you have [1:32:09] Speaker 2: literally gaslighted your entire audience. Justice not even that means [1:32:12] Speaker 2: you and you're unreliable. [1:32:15] Speaker 1: You can't cope with the fact that you keep saying [1:32:19] Speaker 1: that are not true. You've been getting back shots for [1:32:23] Speaker 1: an hour. Your your your eyes, your eyes are literally [1:32:27] Speaker 1: stopped working because you've taken two money shots, one to [1:32:30] Speaker 1: each eye, and you're completely concussed. [1:32:32] Speaker 2: You don't even know where you're at right now. [1:32:34] Speaker 1: You're being literally waterboarded, and you think that you're you're [1:32:37] Speaker 1: like getting an upper hand in this conversation by saying [1:32:40] Speaker 1: things about Josephus that you thought I said that. [1:32:42] Speaker 2: I've never actually said, like I said, if you want [1:32:46] Speaker 2: the w it's a week, W can. [1:32:47] Speaker 1: But you've taken an unending stream. [1:32:51] Speaker 3: Of l's. [1:32:54] Speaker 2: Again. If you want the W Justin, it's a week W. [1:32:56] Speaker 2: You can have it. I don't. I don't need a W. [1:32:59] Speaker 1: You you've been grabbing onto l's the literally the entire [1:33:03] Speaker 1: time you've been up here. [1:33:04] Speaker 2: Again, it's like you've been You've just been cramming l's. [1:33:07] Speaker 2: I'll give me more losses, just let me crammel them [1:33:10] Speaker 2: into my. [1:33:10] Speaker 1: Mouth the entire time. I don't even need to have [1:33:13] Speaker 1: to try. You just keep saying things that are that [1:33:15] Speaker 1: are patently not true. [1:33:18] Speaker 2: That's what's said. If you think this is about l's [1:33:20] Speaker 2: and W is Justin, that's what's sad. [1:33:21] Speaker 1: But that's what you brought up. You you've been saying [1:33:24] Speaker 1: this entire time, Justin, if you want to W Justin, [1:33:26] Speaker 1: if you want to W Justin, if you want to W. [1:33:28] Speaker 2: It's like you don't even listen to the words coming [1:33:30] Speaker 2: out of your mouth. Again, I'm not here to I'm [1:33:33] Speaker 2: not here to try to take a W Justin. I'm [1:33:35] Speaker 2: not trying to get one over. I'm not trying to [1:33:36] Speaker 2: get your to AHA moment or i'd got your moment. [1:33:39] Speaker 2: I'm not trying to do that. Why because if you [1:33:42] Speaker 2: want the W bro, you can have it, it only [1:33:44] Speaker 2: proves egotism. [1:33:45] Speaker 1: But I already took it. [1:33:48] Speaker 2: Well, I'm given to your freely, so you didn't take anything. [1:33:51] Speaker 1: No, you took an l unwillingly, an unending stream of. [1:33:56] Speaker 2: L yes, A yeah, it's not about it that see, [1:33:58] Speaker 2: that's the what your Dell call is, Justin is if [1:34:00] Speaker 2: you want the w you can have it. [1:34:01] Speaker 1: But you imagine living with could you imagine? [1:34:06] Speaker 2: Could you imagine living with you? It's insufferable, Justin. [1:34:09] Speaker 1: Yeah, only because you'd make up. You would make up everything, [1:34:12] Speaker 1: you'd make up every single day. I don't even know [1:34:15] Speaker 1: Matt Della honey, we've never talked once. [1:34:17] Speaker 2: I don't know. Matt den is not here to save you. Justin. [1:34:21] Speaker 2: Matt deal Honey is not here at all. We don't talk. [1:34:24] Speaker 2: We're not friends. J Mack is not here to say [1:34:26] Speaker 2: even know who J. [1:34:27] Speaker 1: Mack is. [1:34:29] Speaker 2: You're a liar, Justin. [1:34:30] Speaker 1: You mean J Mike. [1:34:33] Speaker 2: I'm sorry, J Mike. J Mike has nothing to do [1:34:37] Speaker 2: with the Bible. He's a philosopher. No he's not. [1:34:40] Speaker 5: He is. [1:34:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, his study is in philosophy, not the Bible. That [1:34:46] Speaker 1: means I actually studied the Bible and history, unlike you. [1:34:50] Speaker 2: I don't know. [1:34:51] Speaker 1: Did you actually. [1:34:51] Speaker 2: Complete your degree? Yes, as a matter of fact, what [1:34:54] Speaker 2: was your degree in? As a matter of fact, Well, [1:34:57] Speaker 2: my my my bachelor's degree is in U. I have [1:35:00] Speaker 2: a Bachelor of Science degree a psychology. [1:35:06] Speaker 1: Okay, so you got a psychology, but your masters. [1:35:08] Speaker 2: In I'm a license psychotherapist. Know what's your master's in psychotherapy? [1:35:14] Speaker 2: I just clearly said that, boy. [1:35:16] Speaker 1: You have a master's degree in psychotherapy. Do you work [1:35:19] Speaker 1: as a therapist? [1:35:21] Speaker 2: Clearly said that I'm a clinical psychologist. That's crazy. [1:35:24] Speaker 1: Imagine going to magic, going to this guy for psychotherapy [1:35:29] Speaker 1: after he spent an hour literally crashing out over bad talking. [1:35:34] Speaker 2: Points and lives is not just what you're demonstrating. [1:35:41] Speaker 1: This is the wildest, the wildest situation I've ever seen [1:35:45] Speaker 1: where someone's come up and spent the entire time literally [1:35:48] Speaker 1: projecting all of his lives and insecurities on somebody else. [1:35:53] Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question, what what provokes you? [1:35:56] Speaker 1: What provokes you to come into these live streams and [1:35:59] Speaker 1: get cooked. [1:36:02] Speaker 2: Again? If you think this is a cooking justice, I'm [1:36:04] Speaker 2: sorry that you have a very poor choice of words. [1:36:07] Speaker 1: What provokes you to come into these live streams and [1:36:10] Speaker 1: get rhetorically fisted, No one fisted, justin what compels you [1:36:18] Speaker 1: to come into these live streams and take literal money [1:36:22] Speaker 1: shots to the eyeballs. [1:36:25] Speaker 2: At homes love them no well, to try to prove [1:36:28] Speaker 2: a point that you act like you're the only one [1:36:30] Speaker 2: that has an education, like you're more superior, said you [1:36:35] Speaker 2: literally have You've illistrated for your egotism justice. Clearly, I've [1:36:38] Speaker 2: demonstrated that you you don't know how to have a conversation. [1:36:42] Speaker 1: You don't know what good talking points are, you don't [1:36:45] Speaker 1: know how to do proper research, and I do expect [1:36:48] Speaker 1: this from you. You don't even know how datum points work. [1:36:51] Speaker 1: You don't even know how timelines work. It's crazy. [1:36:55] Speaker 2: Now, what's crazy is you've demonstrated to zero proving my [1:36:59] Speaker 2: point is not measured. [1:37:02] Speaker 1: I never I never said it was. That's a straw man. [1:37:04] Speaker 2: Again, Yes, that's not a straw man. [1:37:06] Speaker 1: Now, everyone watching this back knows that I never said [1:37:09] Speaker 1: anything about measuring zero. I said you measure from zero, [1:37:12] Speaker 1: and I said it on multiple occasions. And it's okay [1:37:15] Speaker 1: that you were like so concussed that you couldn't hear [1:37:18] Speaker 1: the words coming out of my mouth. That's perfectly fine. [1:37:21] Speaker 1: But listen. There's like actual adults that probably want to [1:37:23] Speaker 1: get into the conversation. So I'll give you just just [1:37:26] Speaker 1: for you, because I know you like talking. I'll give [1:37:29] Speaker 1: you the last word. Go ahead, you can. You can [1:37:31] Speaker 1: say anything you want to and I won't interrupt you. [1:37:34] Speaker 1: I don't even care if you say bad things about me. [1:37:36] Speaker 1: You can preach, you can give me the gospel message, [1:37:38] Speaker 1: whatever you want. You get the last word. You finally [1:37:46] Speaker 1: got to say something. [1:37:46] Speaker 2: Go ahead. [1:37:55] Speaker 1: I'm literally waiting in anticipation for something profound. Anything I [1:38:06] Speaker 1: can wait. You know what people are sending me super [1:38:08] Speaker 1: chats says they listen to you in silence, right like, [1:38:15] Speaker 1: this isn't preventing my stream from doing what the stream does. [1:38:26] Speaker 1: Are you praying? Are you asking the Lord for guidance? [1:38:32] Speaker 1: Maybe you should close out in a prayer. That's what [1:38:35] Speaker 1: you should do. You're the Christian here, do us a favor, [1:38:38] Speaker 1: close us out in something prayerful and meaningful. In fact, [1:38:41] Speaker 1: give us like a true Colossians three three twelve moment, [1:38:46] Speaker 1: that's actually what we need. Have you read Clausions three [1:38:52] Speaker 1: It says, let me pull it up for your. Clausions [1:38:56] Speaker 1: three twelve says that God's chosen ones, Holy U Beloved, [1:39:01] Speaker 1: clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, makeness and patience. Do [1:39:07] Speaker 1: you think you've done that today? That's it nothing, Okay, [1:39:26] Speaker 1: I'll move on. [1:39:29] Speaker 2: That'll do. [1:39:31] Speaker 1: Imagine being that guy. The funny thing is, I've talked [1:39:34] Speaker 1: to him before under a different name. I forget what [1:39:36] Speaker 1: his name was before, but I know for a fact [1:39:38] Speaker 1: that I've talked to him. I just can't remember his [1:39:42] Speaker 1: name last time we talked. But last time he talked. [1:39:45] Speaker 1: Last time we talked, he did the same nonsense. Just [1:39:50] Speaker 1: wanted to yap and overtalk and throw out names. But [1:39:56] Speaker 1: this name of the guy that I like, that agrees [1:39:58] Speaker 1: with me? What about that? Okay, will tell me about it. Okay, [1:40:01] Speaker 1: let me grab a couple of super chats. We'll move [1:40:02] Speaker 1: on to our next guest. Glam, thank you so much [1:40:06] Speaker 1: for the fine dollars super things. I appreciate that, Big [1:40:08] Speaker 1: w and Spider says. [1:40:11] Speaker 2: Uh pa raise ooh. I don't know what that means. [1:40:16] Speaker 1: The ever hard Lord, Doug, praise, the ever hard Lord Doug. [1:40:22] Speaker 1: Say it in all evangelical may make a church like. [1:40:26] Speaker 1: I think what you mean to say is paray. I [1:40:30] Speaker 1: think that's how I was supposed to say that. That's [1:40:31] Speaker 1: the appropriate pronunciation of that. Hey, thank you, I really [1:40:34] Speaker 1: appreciate that, and definitely praise Doug and crucifix me. Friend, [1:40:38] Speaker 1: good to see us, says, Jesus can't rule Poland criminal record, Bro, [1:40:43] Speaker 1: he actually does have a criminal record. Glam coming in again. [1:40:47] Speaker 1: Thank you so much, says is number thirty plus I'm [1:40:51] Speaker 1: justin Oregon is an example of God bypassing free will. [1:40:56] Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what that means, is number thirty plus, [1:41:01] Speaker 1: n I'm organ. I feel like, friend, you meant to [1:41:06] Speaker 1: say something else in that super chat. I don't know [1:41:08] Speaker 1: what you meant to say, but I appreciate the superchat. [1:41:11] Speaker 1: I couldn't quite make it out, Morpheus, my friend. Great [1:41:14] Speaker 1: to see you, he says, Yeah, what's the penis obsession [1:41:16] Speaker 1: in the Bible about taking an oath undergrabbing balls and [1:41:20] Speaker 1: collecting dickskin. That's the craziest thing, actually that we have [1:41:24] Speaker 1: a book where he repeatedly is like obsessed with where [1:41:26] Speaker 1: you put your penis, but also he really wants you [1:41:30] Speaker 1: to like touch it, inspect it, fondle it, trim it, [1:41:33] Speaker 1: whatever you do. Don't crush your testicles. There's a lot [1:41:35] Speaker 1: of weird stuff. Carnage my friend, Thank you for the [1:41:38] Speaker 1: super chat. [1:41:39] Speaker 2: Good to see you. [1:41:39] Speaker 1: It says, can't catch the stream today do to EO [1:41:41] Speaker 1: M Crunch. Just have one question smash Mary, un alive [1:41:46] Speaker 1: food edition for pizza, Tacos Sushi. Okay, I'm going to [1:41:52] Speaker 1: smash Tacos, marry Sushi and unlive pizza Unfortunately. [1:41:57] Speaker 2: Sorry Pizza. [1:41:58] Speaker 1: I love you, but someone's got to go and you're [1:42:00] Speaker 1: the low one on the totem pole. Good question. And [1:42:03] Speaker 1: Kyle my friend, great to see you, buddy, Thank you [1:42:04] Speaker 1: for the ten that I was supertes says would you [1:42:06] Speaker 1: watch a small thirty second video I linked you on Discord? [1:42:09] Speaker 1: It's on Instagram. It's kind of hard to explain something [1:42:11] Speaker 1: about how Israel was original isis before they encountered to Palestinians. [1:42:15] Speaker 1: Actually I would watch it. I apologize. I've got like [1:42:17] Speaker 1: twenty messages I haven't been on on Discord. It's only because, [1:42:23] Speaker 1: like when I'm spending time with my son, I'm just [1:42:24] Speaker 1: not checking my messages, and I spend you know, all [1:42:27] Speaker 1: weekend with my son, So I usually catch up on [1:42:31] Speaker 1: my messages like just one or two days a week, [1:42:34] Speaker 1: like during the work hours, because otherwise the one I [1:42:37] Speaker 1: have fun with my son Graham says, I am correct. [1:42:40] Speaker 1: Oh number thirty one, midy Night's free will was removed, [1:42:44] Speaker 1: or at least they are children's free will. [1:42:45] Speaker 2: That is the case. [1:42:46] Speaker 1: Actually, So there's a lot of situations where God removes [1:42:49] Speaker 1: people's free will. This is one of them. That is like, [1:42:53] Speaker 1: you have to read it right to get to that conclusion, [1:42:55] Speaker 1: but that is a correct conclusion. Anytime God says you [1:42:59] Speaker 1: become a slave or somebody gets to make you a captive, [1:43:02] Speaker 1: you lose your free will at that point. And Apostate Sisters, [1:43:05] Speaker 1: great to see you. Thank you so much for being here. [1:43:07] Speaker 1: Thank you for the super chat. If you're not following [1:43:10] Speaker 1: the Apostate Sisters on YouTube, friends, you definitely want to, [1:43:13] Speaker 1: says Justin. I love listening to Phil bros Sizzle best [1:43:16] Speaker 1: ever while painting props for Nanocon party on Doug Well, [1:43:20] Speaker 1: thank you so much. I appreciate that, and I wish [1:43:22] Speaker 1: I could be at Nanocon. I apologize I won't be [1:43:24] Speaker 1: able to make it, but make sure and let me [1:43:27] Speaker 1: know how it goes. Do lots of videos. Love to [1:43:30] Speaker 1: see the content. Your mom's very eighty seven says, what's [1:43:33] Speaker 1: different about the Ethiopian Bible. Is it canonical or heretical? [1:43:37] Speaker 1: How old is it compared to the Hebrew Bible. Well, [1:43:39] Speaker 1: the Ethiopian Bible is dated to about the fifth century CE, [1:43:43] Speaker 1: so it's not super old, but it's not late either. [1:43:47] Speaker 1: It's almost as old as like the Signiaticus or the Vanaicatis. [1:43:52] Speaker 2: So it certainly is old. [1:43:54] Speaker 1: It does include a wider cannon, and if I remember correctly, [1:43:57] Speaker 1: it also includes the Book of Jubileese. That being said, um, [1:44:03] Speaker 1: it's not heretical. The Ethiopian Bible is just another one [1:44:10] Speaker 1: of the many Christian Bibles. I don't know if you [1:44:12] Speaker 1: know this, but the Ethiopian canon is bigger than the [1:44:14] Speaker 1: Christian Canon, just by a little bit. The Catholic Canon [1:44:17] Speaker 1: and the Ethiopian Canon are very similar. I would consider [1:44:21] Speaker 1: it canonical. Josh says, looks like I just showed up [1:44:24] Speaker 1: to hear a douche guest, and boy, did you ever [1:44:27] Speaker 1: we had two in a row to start to stream [1:44:29] Speaker 1: off with. Alex says. He said early Middle Bronze Age [1:44:33] Speaker 1: over and over again. That would be like three thousand [1:44:36] Speaker 1: to two thousand BCE. Nowhere the actual time of the [1:44:39] Speaker 1: Brooklyn pro virus. I know, Alex, but you can't convince [1:44:41] Speaker 1: an idiot that he's wrong. [1:44:44] Speaker 2: But you're right. [1:44:45] Speaker 1: The Brooklyn Prius had nothing to do with the Middle [1:44:47] Speaker 1: Bronze Age, not even related. And Dunzo says, caller, look [1:44:53] Speaker 1: it up on Wikipedia, justin where is it on wiki? Caller, [1:44:57] Speaker 1: I don't trust Wikipedia. Keep cooking, but I appreciate it [1:45:03] Speaker 1: done though, And that this guy's insane, and I've seen [1:45:08] Speaker 1: him on other live streams. He gets cooked everywhere he goes. [1:45:12] Speaker 1: He has no good arguments, and he's a coward. Joshua's [1:45:15] Speaker 1: guest is so certain certainly one hundred levels stupid. Yeah, [1:45:20] Speaker 1: he's not bright, Friends and l cases, can you explain [1:45:24] Speaker 1: Ezekiel forty through forty four? Is the Prince the Messiah? Yes? [1:45:27] Speaker 1: It is the Messiah? Is a temple described by Ezekiel [1:45:30] Speaker 1: something that is to be built during the Messianic Age? Yes, [1:45:34] Speaker 1: what's going on here? So everything in Ezekiel forty and [1:45:37] Speaker 1: beyond is supposed to be the Messianic Age. Now, the [1:45:39] Speaker 1: problem is, obviously they expected the Messianic Age to happen [1:45:43] Speaker 1: shortly after the prophecy was given. In fact, earlier in Ezekiel, [1:45:46] Speaker 1: God says that I'm I'm doing something different now. All [1:45:51] Speaker 1: of the prophecies, I'm going to make them come to [1:45:53] Speaker 1: pass immediately. So everything after I think that was Ezekiel twelve. [1:45:57] Speaker 1: Everything after Ezekiel twelve should have been events that were [1:46:00] Speaker 1: happening immediately. They just didn't happen. Robin says, Titus Kennedy [1:46:06] Speaker 1: is with Creation Institute. I know, I know these creation [1:46:11] Speaker 1: people really want to tout their poor scholarship, and they're like, look, [1:46:16] Speaker 1: there's one guy. I've got one guy that agrees with me, [1:46:19] Speaker 1: that's got credentials. Surely we should never question what we [1:46:23] Speaker 1: believe and only listen to that one guy, even though [1:46:26] Speaker 1: he literally works for the Creation Institute. That tells you [1:46:28] Speaker 1: all you need to know about Titus Kennedy. And Bob [1:46:30] Speaker 1: Boop says, praise is not given me Galatians five twenty [1:46:34] Speaker 1: two or twenty three vibes. No, he doesn't have the [1:46:36] Speaker 1: fruit of the spirit. He's also lying about his identity. [1:46:40] Speaker 1: Pretty sure there's a commandment about that keep cooking. I [1:46:43] Speaker 1: could be wrong, but it really did sound like praise, [1:46:46] Speaker 1: did it not. I realized that praise does sound a [1:46:48] Speaker 1: little bit more drunk when he's up. But man, they [1:46:51] Speaker 1: really sounded like the same person. Dunza says, I never [1:46:55] Speaker 1: heard a guest be so confidently wrong. It's hard to do, [1:46:58] Speaker 1: but he certainly was confidently wrong. And it's just kay [1:47:02] Speaker 1: good to see the case. It's high justin just lost [1:47:04] Speaker 1: my job today. Shit, I'm sorry to hear that. I'm [1:47:06] Speaker 1: happy you're I'm happy you're live to keep my mind [1:47:11] Speaker 1: off of things. Well, listen, if I could take your [1:47:13] Speaker 1: mind off of it, I'm happy to do so. Kay, [1:47:17] Speaker 1: I'm really sorry that happened to you. That's really shitty. [1:47:20] Speaker 1: I apologize for that. And a side thank you for [1:47:23] Speaker 1: the twenty hours super things. I really appreciate that. [1:47:26] Speaker 2: The friend. [1:47:27] Speaker 1: That's very, very generous. And I'm just gonna g have [1:47:30] Speaker 1: a couple more super chats. I know we've we've done [1:47:32] Speaker 1: a shit ton of them, and we've got a lot [1:47:34] Speaker 1: more left, but I want to get to conversations. Saint [1:47:36] Speaker 1: Brush says the Holy Christian piece on display. Isn't that [1:47:40] Speaker 1: wild that they'll get up here and act like that [1:47:43] Speaker 1: and then pretend like they've got the moral high ground. [1:47:45] Speaker 1: Saint Barnabas says prison is full of believers. Seventy percent [1:47:48] Speaker 1: of us inmates identify as religious. Yeah, if believing made [1:47:52] Speaker 1: you a better person? Was weird that the prison and [1:47:54] Speaker 1: statistics don't agree with that? And stateful, thank you so [1:47:58] Speaker 1: much for the supertest, says crazy. The contradiction for how [1:48:01] Speaker 1: eye for an eye has quickly forgotten one chapter later, [1:48:04] Speaker 1: when stolen sheep rocks requires five as compensation. Yeah, well, [1:48:09] Speaker 1: I mean the eye for the eye is typically for [1:48:13] Speaker 1: bodily injury. Things that can be compensated for. Is a [1:48:15] Speaker 1: little bit different. But that's a fair point that you're [1:48:18] Speaker 1: bringing up. There's some weird stuff happening there. And Peter [1:48:20] Speaker 1: says Paul. Peter is wrong. Peter, who even is a guy? Yeah, [1:48:26] Speaker 1: those guys did not get along. Stephen says Christianus are [1:48:29] Speaker 1: made by God, aren't we aren't? [1:48:32] Speaker 2: Are we? [1:48:33] Speaker 6: No? [1:48:33] Speaker 1: Stephen, you know that we're not made by God whatsoever? [1:48:36] Speaker 2: That guy's a joke. [1:48:37] Speaker 1: And Miko says Luke nineteen twenty seven. Those enemies of [1:48:40] Speaker 1: mine whom don't want me as king over them, bring [1:48:42] Speaker 1: them and kill them in front of me? Is this [1:48:45] Speaker 1: the caller's net? Positive? [1:48:46] Speaker 2: It is, Miko. [1:48:48] Speaker 1: This is what they think we need Christianity for. We [1:48:51] Speaker 1: need it for this, otherwise we're immoral, you know, monkeys, [1:48:54] Speaker 1: and Stephen says God spoke some into life and made [1:48:57] Speaker 1: others with mud. As far as they know, he made everybody. [1:49:01] Speaker 1: He made the original with mud. He didn't speak any [1:49:03] Speaker 1: human beings into life. That's the first time I've heard [1:49:06] Speaker 1: of that one. Eltine says, late and off topic. Well, [1:49:08] Speaker 1: thanks for being here, but late than never. But are [1:49:11] Speaker 1: you worried about the legal ramifications on you? Slaughtering the [1:49:15] Speaker 1: in the Wi Fi gospel debate violated the Geneva Convention, Elpeine, [1:49:21] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And Wi Fi, holy shit, did not [1:49:26] Speaker 1: come prepared for that debate. He challenged me to debate [1:49:29] Speaker 1: and picked the fucking topic. And he thought he was [1:49:32] Speaker 1: going to come to a debate about the prophecies of [1:49:34] Speaker 1: Jesus and pres up his way through it. Can't believe it, Meg, [1:49:39] Speaker 1: I think you are a g GP said, one hundred [1:49:44] Speaker 1: years ago is a long time ago. Oh no, wonder [1:49:46] Speaker 1: you don't understand evolution. Pat's philbro head. I should have. [1:49:51] Speaker 1: I didn't think about that. [1:49:52] Speaker 2: I should have. [1:49:53] Speaker 1: I'm going to read like five or super chats and [1:49:54] Speaker 1: we'll get our next guest in here. We'll try to [1:49:56] Speaker 1: get super chats that are hanging at the end of [1:49:58] Speaker 1: the live stream, and if we get chance between callers, [1:50:02] Speaker 1: obviously we'll take more. Bryce says, why would God give [1:50:05] Speaker 1: me foreskin only to demand back? Well, that's the weird thing. [1:50:09] Speaker 1: I've never heard a good reason why God demands foreskins [1:50:13] Speaker 1: or why he wants you to trim it, because if [1:50:14] Speaker 1: it's problematic, then he shouldn't. He shouldn't have put it [1:50:17] Speaker 1: there to begin with. If it is problematic, I'm sorry. [1:50:20] Speaker 1: If it's not problematic, he shouldn't be telling you to [1:50:22] Speaker 1: remove it. A share a good friend, good to see you, [1:50:25] Speaker 1: it says, why is the pine tree a philbros. Favorite tree? [1:50:28] Speaker 1: Because it's as supped? Ass h, that was a good joke, Guys. [1:50:36] Speaker 1: You know I love a good joke. That's my friend. [1:50:39] Speaker 1: Good to see you, he says, I'm ninety percent sure [1:50:41] Speaker 1: this guest is actually Durdin's razor, but no matter the name, [1:50:45] Speaker 1: he's failing praises to Doug and share it actually seth Okay, [1:50:51] Speaker 1: now that you mention it, man, it really does sound [1:50:54] Speaker 1: like Durden's and Durden's crashes out on every live stream. [1:50:57] Speaker 1: He has this same performance every single live stream. Now [1:51:02] Speaker 1: that you've mentioned it, I'm almost positive it was Durden's razor, [1:51:06] Speaker 1: and if I remember correctly, we haven't talked in over [1:51:09] Speaker 1: a year, and the last time we talked he wanted [1:51:12] Speaker 1: to do a really bad Fareborough argument. I could be wrong, [1:51:15] Speaker 1: A danger says, I discovered this channel recently and have [1:51:18] Speaker 1: been learning a lot. But I was wondering, why does [1:51:20] Speaker 1: the Bible instruct to kill witches specifically but not the [1:51:23] Speaker 1: people of other faiths. Well, okay, it does tell you [1:51:25] Speaker 1: to kill people of other faiths as well as in [1:51:28] Speaker 1: Deuteronomy thirteen, But it specifically tells you to kill witches [1:51:31] Speaker 1: because witches theoretically can perform curses and God doesn't want [1:51:36] Speaker 1: anyone cursing anyone. So I think that's the best reason. Then, [1:51:41] Speaker 1: of fulgram, thank you for the time that I was [1:51:43] Speaker 1: super test says In the end, none of this matters [1:51:45] Speaker 1: in the slightest. Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, is [1:51:47] Speaker 1: coming with the sword this time. That won't change. Well, [1:51:50] Speaker 1: it won't change because it's never gonna happen. All will [1:51:53] Speaker 1: witness his glory, and for most their last time, no [1:51:55] Speaker 1: one's gonna witness it. Your savior rescue fantasy is a dream. [1:52:01] Speaker 1: It's never going to happen. He's a clown show who [1:52:04] Speaker 1: fulfilled zero prophecies. He didn't fulfill anyone the first time [1:52:09] Speaker 1: he came, and he can't even come a second time. [1:52:11] Speaker 1: But listen, you're welcome to give me ten ten more [1:52:13] Speaker 1: dollars to cry in my chap. So no, no again, [1:52:17] Speaker 1: with another ten dollar cry, says Jesus. Christ said, many [1:52:20] Speaker 1: will not make it into the Kingdom of God. Many [1:52:22] Speaker 1: will fall away. However, what will the fate of unbelievers? Well, [1:52:26] Speaker 1: first of all, the Bible's not even clear about what [1:52:28] Speaker 1: happens of the unbelievers. If you read the entire Bible, [1:52:32] Speaker 1: it seems like there's actually room for the unbelievers in heaven. [1:52:35] Speaker 1: So not a great argument. Also, your God is fiction. Actually, [1:52:40] Speaker 1: you got another super chat. We'll grab that while we're here. [1:52:43] Speaker 1: I'll take another ten bucks from you. It says I'm [1:52:45] Speaker 1: a follower christ. I couldn't tell you don't say admittedly [1:52:49] Speaker 1: a lukewarm Christian. Well, shit, don't read Revelation three. Jesus [1:52:53] Speaker 1: is going to spit you out of his mouth. However, [1:52:55] Speaker 1: I refuse to believe there's people who think God doesn't exist. [1:52:58] Speaker 1: When we're living evidence, we're not living evidence. We're living [1:53:01] Speaker 1: evidence that you don't know how to read a science book. [1:53:04] Speaker 1: Look around you so much life? Yeah, well, look around [1:53:07] Speaker 1: you so much chaos. Not parsimonious with an all good God. [1:53:11] Speaker 1: All right, let's grab our next guest in line was Max. [1:53:14] Speaker 1: Max has been waiting the longest in our YouTube queue. [1:53:17] Speaker 1: So we're gonna grab. [1:53:18] Speaker 2: Max and pull them into the conversation. [1:53:20] Speaker 1: How you doing, Max, Doug, how you doing doing good? [1:53:24] Speaker 1: Are you good? [1:53:26] Speaker 3: Good? [1:53:26] Speaker 5: Good? [1:53:27] Speaker 6: This is our third conversation. You probably don't remember me. [1:53:29] Speaker 6: I'm not as memorable as your last guest. [1:53:31] Speaker 1: Well, I talked to a lot of people. What did [1:53:34] Speaker 1: we talk about last time? [1:53:36] Speaker 6: Uh, it's the first time we talked. We talked about [1:53:42] Speaker 6: a number of things, but it ended with us going [1:53:45] Speaker 6: back and forth about predestination. The second time we talked, [1:53:50] Speaker 6: I just had a bunch of questions. I was just [1:53:52] Speaker 6: really trying to get insight on your on the way [1:53:56] Speaker 6: you view the world through Doug's eyes. You know, I [1:54:00] Speaker 6: didn't I didn't have a debate. I was just asking [1:54:02] Speaker 6: you questions. So and then we kind of ended it there. Okay, so. [1:54:08] Speaker 1: What's your what's your agenda for today? [1:54:10] Speaker 2: Well? [1:54:10] Speaker 6: I wanted to pick up kind of where we left off. [1:54:12] Speaker 6: You were telling me about chaos and the I wanted [1:54:15] Speaker 6: to ask you said you didn't you didn't accept the [1:54:18] Speaker 6: Big Bang theory. [1:54:19] Speaker 1: I didn't say that. [1:54:21] Speaker 6: Okay, maybe I heard you wrong. What is your what? [1:54:23] Speaker 6: What is your take on the Big Bang theory? [1:54:25] Speaker 1: I think it happened? [1:54:28] Speaker 6: Oh oh, I could have swere I remember you saying [1:54:33] Speaker 6: that you didn't accept the big bank theory. Okay, so [1:54:38] Speaker 6: you do accept you you accept the big bank theory. Okay. [1:54:43] Speaker 6: Do you know who created the big bank theory? [1:54:47] Speaker 1: No, but I also don't care. I know it was [1:54:49] Speaker 1: created by a Catholic. [1:54:51] Speaker 6: Yeah, he was a he was a Catholic priest. [1:54:54] Speaker 5: I was. [1:54:56] Speaker 1: Do you think that's relevant to whether or not it happened? [1:54:59] Speaker 6: I'm not well. I would like your h I would [1:55:03] Speaker 6: want to ask you the same question. What is your [1:55:05] Speaker 6: thoughts on the fact that the Big Bang theory was [1:55:08] Speaker 6: created by a Catholic priest. [1:55:10] Speaker 1: I think it's meaning. [1:55:13] Speaker 2: I think it's it's a meaningless data point. [1:55:15] Speaker 1: Doesn't matter to me. I care about whether or not [1:55:17] Speaker 1: the thing is is like demonstrable. [1:55:22] Speaker 6: That's a big word. I'm kind of slow. You got [1:55:25] Speaker 6: to break that down. [1:55:26] Speaker 1: From I just care if it's true or not. I [1:55:29] Speaker 1: don't care who came up with the idea? [1:55:32] Speaker 4: Cool? [1:55:32] Speaker 2: Cool? [1:55:33] Speaker 5: Cool? [1:55:35] Speaker 6: Are you familiar with baryonasymmetry, So, so what is your [1:55:41] Speaker 6: basis on the world, the universe being chaos? [1:55:44] Speaker 5: That? [1:55:44] Speaker 6: Can you expand on it? Like, can you break that [1:55:46] Speaker 6: down a little bit? [1:55:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, the universe is chaotic. That's why, like planets form [1:55:53] Speaker 1: and then get destroyed, Galaxies collide with each other, black [1:55:56] Speaker 1: holes swallow up galaxies because it's just all chaos. The [1:56:00] Speaker 1: universe doesn't have a goal in mind. [1:56:03] Speaker 6: So it's interesting you say that. So Barryon asymmetry, I [1:56:08] Speaker 6: don't know if you can bring it up on your screen, [1:56:10] Speaker 6: but or if you want to. But it's spelled b [1:56:13] Speaker 6: A R y oh in baryon a symmetry. It's a [1:56:17] Speaker 6: concept that when the universe was formed, there was more [1:56:22] Speaker 6: antimatter than matter. So technically, by that same standard, through [1:56:27] Speaker 6: a symmetry, if if matter is trying to create itself, [1:56:34] Speaker 6: then technically antimatter should have swallowed up all of the [1:56:38] Speaker 6: matter before we even had the opportunity to exist. [1:56:41] Speaker 1: Not if there's more of the matter than antimatter. [1:56:45] Speaker 6: Well, so what actually makes up the matter is called leptons. [1:56:49] Speaker 6: Are you familiar with leftons? Now? [1:56:51] Speaker 1: Are you a physicist? [1:56:54] Speaker 5: No? [1:56:54] Speaker 6: No, I'm an idiot. [1:56:55] Speaker 1: Actually, Like some people in the comments that I know [1:57:00] Speaker 1: are trained in these sciences, and they're saying that you're not. [1:57:02] Speaker 1: You're not repeating this argument correctly. [1:57:06] Speaker 6: Well, that's cool, they can if that's how they feel. [1:57:13] Speaker 1: Well, I'm just saying, like, if we're going to have [1:57:15] Speaker 1: a debate on like things that you don't really know [1:57:18] Speaker 1: and things that I ser as hell don't know, I'm [1:57:20] Speaker 1: not sure if that's fruit for anyone. [1:57:21] Speaker 2: Like I'm not a scientist and either of you. [1:57:24] Speaker 6: Well, I don't think we need to be scientists just [1:57:26] Speaker 6: to have a friendly discussion about science. I'm not. [1:57:29] Speaker 2: I'm not. [1:57:30] Speaker 6: I'll be out of here in about a minute. I'm [1:57:32] Speaker 6: not trying to, you know, go into a debate. [1:57:34] Speaker 2: I just was you know, I mean, you've been genuine [1:57:37] Speaker 2: every time you've been up here. [1:57:38] Speaker 1: I just I don't know what good it is to [1:57:40] Speaker 1: have a discussion on a topic that probably neither one [1:57:43] Speaker 1: of us are really trained in. [1:57:46] Speaker 6: Well, I'm not. I'm just trying it interesting and I [1:57:52] Speaker 6: just wanted to bring a point and just get your [1:57:53] Speaker 6: insight on it. More so, than debate. I would just [1:57:56] Speaker 6: I would really like, honestly, legitimately like to hear your [1:57:59] Speaker 6: opinion on because the thing about Buryono symmetry, it doesn't [1:58:03] Speaker 6: point to a designer per se, but there are certain [1:58:05] Speaker 6: scientists that that are agnostic that will say that, okay, well, [1:58:11] Speaker 6: based on buryon a symmetry alone, that there seems to [1:58:14] Speaker 6: be some sort of uh, fine tuning towards life more [1:58:20] Speaker 6: so than chaos. And it's just based on your your [1:58:24] Speaker 6: your thoughts on chaos as far as like the universe [1:58:27] Speaker 6: being more chaotic than being fine tuned toward life and matter, [1:58:32] Speaker 6: and that there's arguments that there's, uh, we exist more [1:58:37] Speaker 6: toward being fine tuned toward life, and that there's a [1:58:40] Speaker 6: bias towards life more so than a bias towards chaos. [1:58:44] Speaker 6: That doesn't necessarily mean that there's a designer or that [1:58:47] Speaker 6: that doesn't that's not proof of God per se. But [1:58:50] Speaker 6: I'm just curious on on on what that means to [1:58:55] Speaker 6: somebody who has who is more in tune with chaos theory. [1:59:00] Speaker 2: Well, don't. [1:59:01] Speaker 1: I think there are two problems with the argument. I [1:59:02] Speaker 1: think the first problem is that chaos has nothing to [1:59:06] Speaker 1: do with the ratio of matter to antimatter. And even [1:59:10] Speaker 1: when antimatter and matter come into contact and they quote [1:59:13] Speaker 1: unquote annalely each other, they turn back into an energetic state, [1:59:18] Speaker 1: which I assume is something akin to like a quantum field, [1:59:22] Speaker 1: which means like something still exists. They don't go into [1:59:25] Speaker 1: complete non existence. And the fact that there could be [1:59:29] Speaker 1: an imbalance of matter to antimatter just means that we've [1:59:34] Speaker 1: got a lot of matter. I don't think that has [1:59:36] Speaker 1: anything to do with whether or not the universe is [1:59:38] Speaker 1: chaos or not. I think the fact that when we [1:59:41] Speaker 1: look at the universe we don't find life. There's certainly [1:59:44] Speaker 1: not a lot of life out there, lends itself to [1:59:47] Speaker 1: the idea that the universe isn't finally tuned for life. [1:59:50] Speaker 1: We just happen to have a pocket of it right [1:59:52] Speaker 1: here where we exist. That being said, if you want [1:59:56] Speaker 1: to invoke the fine tuning argument, I think the problem [1:59:59] Speaker 1: with the find the argument is that it smuggles in intent. [2:00:04] Speaker 1: Saying that something is fine tuned for life means that [2:00:07] Speaker 1: there is an intent, there's a goal in mind. I [2:00:10] Speaker 1: don't think there's a goal in mind. For example, and [2:00:12] Speaker 1: I've used this a lot, but like if if I [2:00:16] Speaker 1: drop a deck of fifty two. [2:00:18] Speaker 2: Cards, right, you said this last time, you'll head exactly. [2:00:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, this is why fine tuning. Fine tuning always fails [2:00:25] Speaker 1: because fine tuning always relies on there being an intention, [2:00:29] Speaker 1: and you would have to improve or you would have [2:00:31] Speaker 1: to prove that the universe has an intention before you [2:00:34] Speaker 1: can prove that we're the result of the universe's intention. [2:00:39] Speaker 6: Well, I think that's interesting, Might I get it? I [2:00:42] Speaker 6: think it's interesting. Like earlier, you had a caller. He [2:00:44] Speaker 6: was using the word about this. He kept saying about [2:00:46] Speaker 6: in this Yeah, and uh, you said. He asked you [2:00:51] Speaker 6: an interesting question. He said, you know, if if you [2:00:53] Speaker 6: you said you were going to be leading a wedding [2:00:54] Speaker 6: and you're gonna have to have a prayer, you're gonna [2:00:56] Speaker 6: have to pray. And he said, why would you do that? [2:00:59] Speaker 6: And I'm not probably not quoting you, right, but you [2:01:02] Speaker 6: said something to the effect that it gives meaning or no, no, [2:01:06] Speaker 6: you said that the people who do believe find meaning [2:01:09] Speaker 6: in the prayer per se. [2:01:12] Speaker 2: I'm not quoting right. [2:01:14] Speaker 1: So there's going to be people there that do believe. [2:01:19] Speaker 2: Right, So remember the meaning. [2:01:21] Speaker 1: But my job, my job as an officiant isn't to [2:01:24] Speaker 1: do what I want. My job as the officiant is [2:01:26] Speaker 1: to do what the wedding and the family wants. [2:01:30] Speaker 6: Right, So I think what he was I could be wrong, [2:01:35] Speaker 6: but I think what he was trying to say was [2:01:37] Speaker 6: was just something around when he was using the word [2:01:39] Speaker 6: about this, I think he was trying to express interest [2:01:43] Speaker 6: or what you say, meaning in that for the sake [2:01:47] Speaker 6: of meaning, meaning for the sake of meaning in that, [2:01:51] Speaker 6: or intent is in conscious as far as consciousness is concerned, [2:01:56] Speaker 6: what we find meaningful and where do that comes from? [2:02:00] Speaker 6: And I get what you're saying as far as brain [2:02:02] Speaker 6: is just being chemicals and things like that, But I [2:02:06] Speaker 6: just I think it's interesting that, uh, through consciousness, there's [2:02:12] Speaker 6: typically some form of intent or meaning behind the conscious [2:02:17] Speaker 6: that that consciousness, and that isn't particularly measurable from a [2:02:22] Speaker 6: scientific standpoint. [2:02:24] Speaker 1: Yeah. So, and that's why I said, like, I don't [2:02:27] Speaker 1: know if if we do have intentions, So because if [2:02:32] Speaker 1: we have intentions, it means that we have free will, [2:02:35] Speaker 1: and I don't know if we actually do have free [2:02:37] Speaker 1: will or even the ability to choose. I don't know. [2:02:39] Speaker 1: If we do, we could be living in in a [2:02:42] Speaker 1: deterministic world. And I'll say, yeah, I'll say the same [2:02:46] Speaker 1: thing I've said to everybody. This is not a topic [2:02:48] Speaker 1: I've studied yet. The opinion for me personally, my personal [2:02:52] Speaker 1: opinion is out. I don't know if we actually do [2:02:55] Speaker 1: have the ability to make decisions. I do know it [2:02:58] Speaker 1: feels that way. I do know that it seems that way. [2:03:02] Speaker 1: But I've heard really good arguments. There's a friend of [2:03:05] Speaker 1: mine called packs of Ophelia, if I remember her name correctly. [2:03:10] Speaker 1: We haven't talked in a couple of months, but she [2:03:12] Speaker 1: laid down for me an argument that really went like [2:03:17] Speaker 1: I couldn't refute it. I'm like, shit, based on what [2:03:19] Speaker 1: you've said, it sounds like you're right, you know. [2:03:22] Speaker 5: What I mean. [2:03:23] Speaker 6: I'd love to hear it. What what what do you [2:03:25] Speaker 6: remember what the gist of it was? Well, I'm going [2:03:27] Speaker 6: to be out of here in a second. Two I'm [2:03:28] Speaker 6: not gonna take up to call. [2:03:30] Speaker 1: It was over the course of like three weeks talking [2:03:33] Speaker 1: in a TikTok thread. So like I can find the [2:03:37] Speaker 1: TikTok thread, Like, if you're in the discord or email me, [2:03:40] Speaker 1: I can send you the thread and you can kind [2:03:42] Speaker 1: of see see what she was saying. Or I can [2:03:46] Speaker 1: go to the thread and I can reproduce it for you. [2:03:48] Speaker 1: But the reality is like if you if you look [2:03:53] Speaker 1: at the material universe, it seems like everything is a [2:03:57] Speaker 1: chemical reaction. And like, I don't like I want things [2:04:02] Speaker 1: to be a choice. I want things to be an intention, [2:04:05] Speaker 1: but I can't prove that they are. [2:04:09] Speaker 6: In that same theory. Don't you think that there's more [2:04:12] Speaker 6: odds that we should have if by those same odds [2:04:15] Speaker 6: we should have been destroyed by now, or we shouldn't [2:04:18] Speaker 6: even be alive at this point. And if there's more [2:04:20] Speaker 6: chaos than how are we still here? [2:04:22] Speaker 1: We will be destroyed. Our entire socialism is going to [2:04:25] Speaker 1: be destroyed in a couple of billion. [2:04:27] Speaker 6: Years, right, but so, but by the by the numbers, [2:04:31] Speaker 6: technically it should have happened by the same numbers that [2:04:34] Speaker 6: you're going by, it should have happened already multiple time. [2:04:36] Speaker 1: I don't think so. [2:04:38] Speaker 6: Well, if you, if hold on, give me, let me [2:04:41] Speaker 6: bring this up. [2:04:42] Speaker 1: And remember, based on what we know about the planet Earth, [2:04:46] Speaker 1: all life was wiped out on Earth at least one time, [2:04:48] Speaker 1: as far as we can tell, almost almost all life. [2:04:51] Speaker 6: Right, But we're alive today, and we're aware that we [2:04:54] Speaker 6: know that we're alive you're aware that you're alive, and [2:04:56] Speaker 6: you're you're you're aware that you're here. So why by [2:05:01] Speaker 6: this by the odds, I would think that the odds [2:05:03] Speaker 6: are against us in that In that context, if if [2:05:07] Speaker 6: the Earth is billions of years old, and that would [2:05:12] Speaker 6: mean cause trillions of days, I would think at least [2:05:17] Speaker 6: in one of those days, by the same odds that [2:05:20] Speaker 6: you're going by, we should have totally been wiped like [2:05:22] Speaker 6: totally totally wiped out by now, if you're going by [2:05:26] Speaker 6: the odd and might. That goes back to what I [2:05:27] Speaker 6: was saying about Bury on the symmetry, and that there [2:05:30] Speaker 6: they don't under they don't even understand why there seems [2:05:33] Speaker 6: to be a bias towards life than then anti matter [2:05:37] Speaker 6: wiping us all out, because technically we should have been [2:05:39] Speaker 6: wiped out multiple at least two three times, at least [2:05:42] Speaker 6: two three times by now in the true I mean [2:05:47] Speaker 6: they might. There's there's no answer, there's no definitive answer [2:05:51] Speaker 6: on this either way. So it's all theory anyway. So [2:05:53] Speaker 6: I mean, we all have our personal I get it. [2:05:55] Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, like the population on the Earth [2:05:58] Speaker 1: has went through insane reductions over the last you know, millenniums, [2:06:05] Speaker 1: we've seen the population get reduced by fifty percent, Like [2:06:08] Speaker 1: during the Bubonic plague, the population of Europe went down [2:06:12] Speaker 1: to like fifty percent of what it was like there. [2:06:15] Speaker 1: And that's because we're in a world of chaos. Like, [2:06:18] Speaker 1: just because we're in a world of chaos, doesn't mean [2:06:20] Speaker 1: that there's never going to be life. I mean, that [2:06:23] Speaker 1: certainly doesn't seem to be the case. In fact, we [2:06:25] Speaker 1: found even on meteorites, we found on two different occasions, [2:06:29] Speaker 1: amino acids, and on both of those occasions we even [2:06:33] Speaker 1: found a fully formed protein. So like, it seems that [2:06:37] Speaker 1: life as we know it is capable of self assembling, [2:06:42] Speaker 1: and it is fragile obviously, which is why all life [2:06:44] Speaker 1: on this planet will eventually be annihilated. [2:06:49] Speaker 6: Just I'm gonna say this, and I'm gonna I'm gonna [2:06:51] Speaker 6: let you get to nice collar. I've got a whole [2:06:53] Speaker 6: list of facts about the universe that basically explain why [2:07:02] Speaker 6: we're alive. And if one fraction I'm sure you've heard [2:07:05] Speaker 6: some of these things, like if one fraction of these [2:07:07] Speaker 6: things were off, like the electromagnetism force, if it was [2:07:10] Speaker 6: too greater, then stars wouldn't be able to be created. [2:07:12] Speaker 6: If it was too smaller, then stars would explode. The [2:07:16] Speaker 6: ratio of electron to proton mass. If it was larger, [2:07:19] Speaker 6: the insufficient chemical bonding for stable molecules wouldn't be possible. [2:07:22] Speaker 6: The ratio of numbers to protons and electrons, the expansion [2:07:26] Speaker 6: rate of the universe. If it was larger, there would [2:07:28] Speaker 6: be no galaxy formation. If it was smaller, the universe [2:07:31] Speaker 6: would collapse. The entropy level of the universe. Uh, that [2:07:35] Speaker 6: I was talking about baryon. If one of these, basically [2:07:39] Speaker 6: I'm not gonna go to that whole. [2:07:41] Speaker 1: The universe would still exist, just in a different form. [2:07:48] Speaker 6: Right, but it wouldn't be able to support life as [2:07:51] Speaker 6: we know it. [2:07:51] Speaker 1: It's certain life isn't the goal, so I think we [2:07:57] Speaker 1: should That's what That's what they keep trying to say, [2:07:59] Speaker 1: Like you keep saying, well, it's uh, it seems like [2:08:02] Speaker 1: really long odds that we have a universe with life, [2:08:05] Speaker 1: but the that just happens to be the case. It [2:08:08] Speaker 1: wasn't the goal of the universe to produce life. [2:08:11] Speaker 6: Well, they're not only just life. But going back to [2:08:13] Speaker 6: the quote unquote aboutness of what he was talking about [2:08:16] Speaker 6: life and the fact that you're aware that you're alive, [2:08:19] Speaker 6: and and it has some it has meaning, and even [2:08:24] Speaker 6: meaning for the sake of meaning in it. [2:08:25] Speaker 2: Like subjective, it's one thing to be alive. [2:08:28] Speaker 6: I'm sorry. [2:08:28] Speaker 1: Like subjective or objective, I think we all have subjective meanings. [2:08:32] Speaker 1: I don't think in objective meanings. [2:08:39] Speaker 6: Well, if you go back to if you go back [2:08:41] Speaker 6: to what I was saying about Bury on a symmetry, [2:08:43] Speaker 6: that it would point to that there is some type [2:08:46] Speaker 6: of fine tuning to support at least to support life. [2:08:50] Speaker 6: And if one of those fine, why do you say that? [2:08:55] Speaker 1: Because fine tuning implies intent. We have no idea that [2:08:59] Speaker 1: the universe has intent. Fine tuning is a useless argument [2:09:04] Speaker 1: no matter which way you run the script, it's always [2:09:06] Speaker 1: about our day. [2:09:07] Speaker 6: Okay, I could follow that, but I would so I [2:09:08] Speaker 6: would think by those same odds, we should have been [2:09:11] Speaker 6: destroyed by now, multiple times over what we will be destroyed. [2:09:16] Speaker 6: But we have. But I think it should have happened by. [2:09:18] Speaker 1: Now based on what calculations. [2:09:22] Speaker 6: Well, a couple of things I just read. [2:09:24] Speaker 2: For one, I mean. [2:09:25] Speaker 1: We've been here for like, the planet's been here for [2:09:28] Speaker 1: four a little over four billion years. That's nothing. The [2:09:31] Speaker 1: cosmic time scale of four billion years is nothing is [2:09:34] Speaker 1: dropping the bucket and we will be annihilated. [2:09:38] Speaker 6: Right, those years break down into days, which is trillions [2:09:42] Speaker 6: of days, so at least by one one trillion. You know, [2:09:46] Speaker 6: like you're talking hundreds of trillions of days that have passed, [2:09:48] Speaker 6: and you're telling me not one of those days we [2:09:50] Speaker 6: weren't totally white. [2:09:51] Speaker 1: I think it's only like roughly a trillion days. I [2:09:54] Speaker 1: think there's like three hundred and some odd billion uh [2:09:59] Speaker 1: uh days in a in a in a billion years, right, [2:10:08] Speaker 1: so it'd be three hundred and sixty billion days in [2:10:11] Speaker 1: one billion years, and you've got four of them about [2:10:15] Speaker 1: four and a half, so it gets you just over [2:10:17] Speaker 1: a trillion. [2:10:19] Speaker 2: So we've had about a truck but there's been there's. [2:10:23] Speaker 1: Been many trillions of seconds. Just fighting time infinitely into [2:10:28] Speaker 1: bigger numbers doesn't make the argument better. [2:10:30] Speaker 6: I get, Well, the going by the thesis that you're [2:10:35] Speaker 6: presenting that there's no intent and this all just happened randomly, [2:10:38] Speaker 6: then I would think by those same random numbers, there [2:10:41] Speaker 6: has to be something stopping us from being destroyed. Point [2:10:45] Speaker 6: because the number, the math isn't that math don't. [2:10:48] Speaker 1: Mask what math? What math gets me to the point [2:10:53] Speaker 1: where our planet can't exist for a couple of billion years. [2:10:57] Speaker 6: The probability, the probability of no, if there's no intent, [2:11:03] Speaker 6: or if there's no if if it's all just random, [2:11:07] Speaker 6: then by the problem not possibility, but the probability of [2:11:12] Speaker 6: us being wiped out increases. If there's no intent and. [2:11:16] Speaker 1: We will, we will be wiped out. That's a fact. [2:11:18] Speaker 6: But I would think to that same probability that might [2:11:22] Speaker 6: I don't know the exact numbers, but it should have [2:11:24] Speaker 6: happened by now multiple times. [2:11:26] Speaker 1: Give me the calculation that says human beings should have [2:11:29] Speaker 1: been wiped out. [2:11:31] Speaker 6: Okay, well, let's let's look it up quick. Let's let's [2:11:35] Speaker 6: because I'm an idiot. I'm not. [2:11:36] Speaker 2: I'm not a genre Max. [2:11:38] Speaker 1: You're not. [2:11:38] Speaker 2: I talked to an idiot before you You're not an idiot. [2:11:42] Speaker 6: What are the odds. [2:11:48] Speaker 2: Of the odds? Are one destroyed? No, we know it's [2:11:54] Speaker 2: going to be destroyed. [2:11:58] Speaker 6: It's not zero, but extremely low. Exactly, I get it. [2:12:03] Speaker 6: There's really no absolute way to calculate these numbers. I [2:12:06] Speaker 6: get it. [2:12:06] Speaker 1: That's true. We know for a fact that the Earth [2:12:09] Speaker 1: will be described. [2:12:10] Speaker 6: Context in the context, in the context if you if [2:12:12] Speaker 6: you break it down and you say, okay, it's all [2:12:14] Speaker 6: random and it's all chaos, then I would think it [2:12:16] Speaker 6: would increase that probability. That's all I'm saying. Even though [2:12:19] Speaker 6: we don't have those numbers going by your your your baseline, [2:12:24] Speaker 6: then you're increasing the probability. It's like, okay, well, why [2:12:27] Speaker 6: why are we still here? [2:12:28] Speaker 1: It's one hundred percent max the Like, Okay, the probability [2:12:32] Speaker 1: that I'm going to eat food today is one hundred [2:12:34] Speaker 1: percent because I need food to eat, but I'm not [2:12:37] Speaker 1: eating every second of the day. Like, just because there's [2:12:40] Speaker 1: a probabilistic outcome doesn't mean that the probabilistic outcome needs [2:12:45] Speaker 1: to be right now. [2:12:48] Speaker 6: Okay, let's let's end it there. And I just want [2:12:50] Speaker 6: to tell you I absolutely love your show. It's hilarious. [2:12:52] Speaker 6: I died laughing listening listen match. [2:12:55] Speaker 1: I actually like talking to you. Just don't worry about it. [2:12:58] Speaker 1: You're okay, I'll. [2:13:00] Speaker 6: I hope we'll talk again soon. [2:13:01] Speaker 1: I love it. [2:13:02] Speaker 6: I absolutely love your show, man, I absolutely love it. [2:13:04] Speaker 6: And keep doing what you're doing, keep thinking, all right, [2:13:07] Speaker 6: let me ask you this, real quick, real quick. Do [2:13:10] Speaker 6: you think that so do you think you chose to [2:13:13] Speaker 6: be the way you are or it was just just [2:13:16] Speaker 6: universal does not by the same, uh, you know, toalken [2:13:19] Speaker 6: to what we were discussing, do you think that you [2:13:20] Speaker 6: had a choice in being the person that you are [2:13:23] Speaker 6: today or that just that's just how the math math. [2:13:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's why I keep saying it like, I [2:13:29] Speaker 1: don't know if we even have the ability to choose. [2:13:31] Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm still trying to figure that out myself, right. [2:13:35] Speaker 1: So it it feels like we have the ability to choose, [2:13:39] Speaker 1: and it seems like we have the ability to choose, [2:13:42] Speaker 1: but what we know about science seems to be pointing [2:13:46] Speaker 1: in the opposite direction, even though it does feel like [2:13:49] Speaker 1: we're choosing to do it. But then again, you know [2:13:52] Speaker 1: the hydrangeas in my flower bed, do they choose to [2:13:56] Speaker 1: lay over their leaves when the sun gets out so [2:13:59] Speaker 1: that they don't get overexposed or is it just a [2:14:01] Speaker 1: chemical reaction? [2:14:07] Speaker 6: Well, I would think I we have intelligence, which is, [2:14:11] Speaker 6: you know, so like people can measure i Q. So [2:14:13] Speaker 6: I would think that intelligence separates us from basic chemical [2:14:19] Speaker 6: reactions and that we through and min Like they say [2:14:22] Speaker 6: in physics, the what does it say the collapse of [2:14:25] Speaker 6: a wave particle is based on observation, So are the [2:14:30] Speaker 6: fact that we can observe In fact, we're not just [2:14:35] Speaker 6: part of the universe. The fact that we can observe [2:14:37] Speaker 6: it and we're we're aware that we observed it would [2:14:39] Speaker 6: give us some form of choice. I would think that's [2:14:42] Speaker 6: not definitive. I get it. [2:14:44] Speaker 1: But maxic collapse of the of the wave happens not [2:14:47] Speaker 1: because it's observed, but because all forms of observation requires disturbance. [2:14:54] Speaker 6: You're one hundred percent right. I would think that would [2:14:56] Speaker 6: separate us from just being part of the universe. And then, yes, [2:15:00] Speaker 6: we are part of the universe, but we are also [2:15:02] Speaker 6: we can affect the universe as well. [2:15:04] Speaker 1: So if we have to disturb it in order to [2:15:07] Speaker 1: observe it, that means then we're just using physical interactions. [2:15:14] Speaker 6: Say that again, I kind of. [2:15:16] Speaker 1: I mean, if we have to to disturb the wave [2:15:19] Speaker 1: in order to observe it, then it just means that [2:15:22] Speaker 1: we're interacting with it. [2:15:24] Speaker 7: I get. [2:15:25] Speaker 1: There's no there's no metaphysical like immaterial force that causes [2:15:32] Speaker 1: our observation to collapse the wave. It collapses because all [2:15:37] Speaker 1: of our ability to do observation requires us to interact [2:15:41] Speaker 1: it with it in like the real world. [2:15:44] Speaker 6: Well, see that's what I think some like people do [2:15:48] Speaker 6: string theory theory. They talk about like I don't know [2:15:52] Speaker 6: if you know string theory, but like from fifth dimension, [2:15:55] Speaker 6: like fifth dimensional observation based into fourth dimensional time and space. [2:15:59] Speaker 6: How that breaks down from what is perceived from us [2:16:01] Speaker 6: as choice and that like if you if you go [2:16:05] Speaker 6: to like you say, it's one hundred percent chance you're [2:16:07] Speaker 6: going to go eat some food, but you go into [2:16:08] Speaker 6: your fridge and say, okay, do I want to apple [2:16:10] Speaker 6: or orange? That's not necessarily choice per se. But like [2:16:13] Speaker 6: you choosing to start this YouTube channel, you choosing to [2:16:18] Speaker 6: be an atheist, you you know, that's that comes from [2:16:22] Speaker 6: some form of observation of the way that life is [2:16:25] Speaker 6: playing out, and so therefore you make a choice. Okay, [2:16:28] Speaker 6: do I believe or do I not believe? I would [2:16:30] Speaker 6: think that that's based on some form of observation that [2:16:35] Speaker 6: surpasses a chemical basic chemical reaction. It's it's if that [2:16:41] Speaker 6: makes it because you have to observe the universe. You [2:16:44] Speaker 6: observe people say okay, this is why God is and [2:16:47] Speaker 6: you look at it and say, well, no, that's all bullshit. [2:16:48] Speaker 6: I don't believe that that was a at some point, [2:16:51] Speaker 6: that's a choice that you notice a chemical reaction. [2:16:55] Speaker 1: It's a brain states, not a choice. I didn't choose [2:16:57] Speaker 1: and not believe. I just stopped believing, like it was [2:17:00] Speaker 1: no longer convincing. [2:17:05] Speaker 6: Right, But you have to observe. It takes some forms [2:17:08] Speaker 6: of observation for you. [2:17:09] Speaker 1: I agree, But all forms of observation interact with the [2:17:13] Speaker 1: physical world. Do you have to observe with your eyeballs [2:17:16] Speaker 1: or your five senses? Right, like the physical world using [2:17:19] Speaker 1: physical means, even the power of looking at something, you're [2:17:22] Speaker 1: interacting with photons. [2:17:28] Speaker 6: So you don't think that there's so go back to [2:17:30] Speaker 6: the example you gave about the leaves turnover. You don't [2:17:32] Speaker 6: think that your quote unquote choice. I know that's the [2:17:35] Speaker 6: lack of a better word. Don't you think that there's [2:17:37] Speaker 6: no difference between leaves turning over like that and the [2:17:40] Speaker 6: choice that you made to be and eight? Did you [2:17:41] Speaker 6: think that those are the same type of chemicals? Not tight? [2:17:43] Speaker 6: Do you think those are just all chemical reactions? I do. [2:17:46] Speaker 1: I think the simplest forms of life had just simple [2:17:48] Speaker 1: chemical reactions that allowed them to adapt to their environment. [2:17:52] Speaker 1: And we added one more adaptation onto another, onto another, [2:17:56] Speaker 1: onto another. For a billion years till we get to [2:17:59] Speaker 1: a point where where we have this thing that we [2:18:02] Speaker 1: call intelligence, but really what it is it's a conglomerate [2:18:06] Speaker 1: of billions of adaptations and chemical reactions that have allowed [2:18:11] Speaker 1: us to adapt and overcome in our environment. [2:18:14] Speaker 6: Interesting. So you think morality plays into that same type [2:18:17] Speaker 6: of chemical reaction as well. [2:18:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't even think morals exist. I think morals [2:18:21] Speaker 1: are subjective. That's a conversation for another idea, sure. [2:18:28] Speaker 6: Okay, yeah, yeah, the idea of somebody killing somebody else. [2:18:32] Speaker 6: I'm sorry, and I shouldn't say that on your somebody [2:18:34] Speaker 6: in there, somebody else's life and them making a choice [2:18:38] Speaker 6: not to You think that that's just a chemical reaction, [2:18:40] Speaker 6: not necessarily a choice. [2:18:42] Speaker 1: That's why I keep telling you I don't know if [2:18:44] Speaker 1: we actually have choices. [2:18:46] Speaker 6: Nice, Okay, we'll end it there. I love talking to you. [2:18:48] Speaker 6: Brood have going all Rightep, you too. [2:18:53] Speaker 1: Max has been played every time he's been up here. [2:18:56] Speaker 1: I'm gonna grab a couple of super chats and I [2:18:58] Speaker 1: think Librian Amber had something to say. [2:19:00] Speaker 2: We're gonna bring Lion Bryan amberin for Bryce A. [2:19:03] Speaker 1: Roney says the most confidently dumb call it not Max [2:19:06] Speaker 1: the previous one most confidently dumb caller I've ever heard. [2:19:09] Speaker 1: It's got to be Dirden. It literally is uh, thanks [2:19:14] Speaker 1: that you have to start from one in order to [2:19:17] Speaker 1: count one increment. It doesn't know the difference between reprint [2:19:20] Speaker 1: and update. It's crazy to me, Like I thought the [2:19:24] Speaker 1: zero to one thing was crazy, that he didn't understand [2:19:27] Speaker 1: the fact that he didn't realize that a reprint just [2:19:31] Speaker 1: means it was reprinted is unfucking believable crazy. [2:19:37] Speaker 2: To me, Martin, thank you for the twenty dollars. [2:19:39] Speaker 1: Supertess is My father once told me that most of [2:19:41] Speaker 1: the people I argue with will be below average intelligence. [2:19:44] Speaker 1: As intelligent people will quote facts that you can check [2:19:47] Speaker 1: and verify. THEA seems to have trouble with facts. Martin [2:19:51] Speaker 1: is one hundred percent correct. In fact, one of the [2:19:54] Speaker 1: reasons why these debates happen, the reason why they're ongoing, [2:19:58] Speaker 1: is because Christian's don't have facts. If they had facts, [2:20:02] Speaker 1: they would just present them and they'd be done. It [2:20:05] Speaker 1: wouldn't be an argument anymore. Jesse says, giving thanks for [2:20:10] Speaker 1: I am offering himself up as a crispy, charred burnt [2:20:13] Speaker 1: offering a pleasing aroma to Doug. I appreciate that, Jesse, [2:20:17] Speaker 1: and it certainly is a pleasing aroma to Doug. Also, [2:20:21] Speaker 1: I was rereading some of the sacrificial literature the other day, [2:20:25] Speaker 1: and it's really funny because in the Book of not Exodus, [2:20:31] Speaker 1: in numbers, when you get to like chapter chapter twenty [2:20:36] Speaker 1: nine or so, there's a we were told about the [2:20:39] Speaker 1: daily offerings, and it's really funny. The daily offerings follow [2:20:44] Speaker 1: First of all, it follows all of the daily food regiments. [2:20:47] Speaker 1: It's clear in numbers and in parts of Leviticus that [2:20:51] Speaker 1: God is treating the offerings as food like he needs [2:20:55] Speaker 1: to be fed, which is why he gives two daily [2:20:58] Speaker 1: meals at his set time period with drinks and a [2:21:02] Speaker 1: set meal. Crazy that God needs fed, John says, rhetorical book. Really, [2:21:11] Speaker 1: I can't say the word on TikTok, but yeah, I [2:21:12] Speaker 1: think that's about what happened John, And Smack says, maybe [2:21:17] Speaker 1: you know who thinks literally means in my imagination, that's [2:21:22] Speaker 1: what he was thinking. Actually, and Carl Grime says, your [2:21:26] Speaker 1: callers should know that when I start watching this channel, [2:21:30] Speaker 1: I was not an atheist, but because of the constant [2:21:32] Speaker 1: lives hatred stupidity from callers. They've pushed me away from Christianity. Carl, [2:21:37] Speaker 1: that seems to be the case. I've heard that a [2:21:38] Speaker 1: couple of times, and I don't blame you. Like if [2:21:41] Speaker 1: you're a Christian and you tune into a channel to say, Okay, [2:21:45] Speaker 1: who's got better arguments, and then you hear Christians continuously [2:21:48] Speaker 1: lay out dog shit arguments with the worst character ever. [2:21:53] Speaker 1: They're going to dissuade you. Thanks for being here and John, [2:21:56] Speaker 1: thank you for the twenty hours super chat. Hughes w [2:21:59] Speaker 1: friend says thanks for the Monday barbecue, miss crack and [2:22:01] Speaker 1: payment due to card fraud, but should be back now. Hey, [2:22:05] Speaker 1: thank you, I appreciate that. Sorry you had the fraud [2:22:07] Speaker 1: on your card, says, here's to you and Doug for [2:22:09] Speaker 1: keeping the heat up and burning through all the bs thesps. Well, [2:22:14] Speaker 1: thank you so much John for supporting I certainly appreciate [2:22:17] Speaker 1: that and glad to hear that You're rock hard for [2:22:19] Speaker 1: Doug big w And let me grab a couple more [2:22:23] Speaker 1: cheap snacks. Is I've watched hundreds of hours of your [2:22:26] Speaker 1: streams and have learned things that are priceless to me. [2:22:29] Speaker 1: You are my favorite in the genre. Thank you for [2:22:31] Speaker 1: helping Doug find his way into my. [2:22:35] Speaker 2: Well. [2:22:35] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Doug gets you, gets you hard. Big [2:22:39] Speaker 1: w for that, and I'm glad I could teach you [2:22:42] Speaker 1: something that I really like learning personally, so so so [2:22:47] Speaker 1: no is literally crashing out. He sent me so many [2:22:51] Speaker 1: super chats, Sona says. All of you have freedom to [2:22:55] Speaker 1: choose a gift from God. He will not force you [2:22:57] Speaker 1: to worship him. Except he does. He will burn you [2:22:59] Speaker 1: literally in hell if you don't worship him. That's force. [2:23:02] Speaker 1: He's literally holding a pewpew to your head saying, worship [2:23:05] Speaker 1: me or burn. Sona says, However, you atheists are risking [2:23:08] Speaker 1: the gift of eternal life that God has promised you [2:23:11] Speaker 1: if you follow his son wrong again. It's not a [2:23:14] Speaker 1: free gift. It's coercion. He's a bully. Christianity is quite [2:23:18] Speaker 1: literally Stockholm syndrome, and you're an example. Ahood. Here's a [2:23:22] Speaker 1: message for sons, says, inspired me to support the channel [2:23:26] Speaker 1: a bit more. Well, thank you, Ared, I appreciate it. [2:23:31] Speaker 2: Sona coming in again. [2:23:33] Speaker 1: Sona, you can send all the super chats you want [2:23:35] Speaker 1: doing your missionary work, says mocking the very person who [2:23:39] Speaker 1: can not only save you, but heal you. I don't [2:23:42] Speaker 1: have any aliments when I'm I being healed from. He [2:23:44] Speaker 1: says an Exodus four eleven that he literally makes people named. [2:23:48] Speaker 1: He makes some blind, deaf and dumb. Says Jesus comes [2:23:52] Speaker 1: back in full glory and fire. [2:23:54] Speaker 2: Wrong again. [2:23:54] Speaker 1: He's never coming back. He said he was coming back soon. [2:23:57] Speaker 1: He said he was coming back imminently. He said he [2:23:59] Speaker 1: was coming back in the lifetime of disciples. He's a liar, [2:24:01] Speaker 1: He's a fraud. You may regret everything for eternity in [2:24:05] Speaker 1: the lake of sulfur. I won't Sona because it doesn't exist. [2:24:09] Speaker 1: It doesn't exist. You'll be worm food. I'll be worm food. [2:24:13] Speaker 1: Here he is again. I've never seen a theist send [2:24:15] Speaker 1: so many super chats. How is it that even demons [2:24:18] Speaker 1: believe yet not you atheists, because we don't believe demons exist. [2:24:22] Speaker 2: They're not real. [2:24:22] Speaker 1: They're in your imagination, just like your God. And Emeka [2:24:26] Speaker 1: says Sono is secretly an atheist. Guys, listen, I would [2:24:30] Speaker 1: believe that he's saying all the dumb stuff I would [2:24:32] Speaker 1: say if I was trolling Christians. Here he goes he [2:24:37] Speaker 1: can't help himself. I will spend. [2:24:40] Speaker 2: Thank you Bertram for the fireworks. [2:24:42] Speaker 1: I will spend as much as I'm able if it [2:24:45] Speaker 1: means getting some of you to start believing. Then when [2:24:51] Speaker 1: that day comes, I can happily say, with the help [2:24:54] Speaker 1: of Jeebus got you into Heaven, not gonna happen. So No, [2:24:57] Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, Sona. We've read [2:24:59] Speaker 1: the book, We've read the Gospel. We know what it says. [2:25:02] Speaker 1: You're wasting your time and your money. You're welcome to [2:25:07] Speaker 1: keep trying, he says. Those are his gates. [2:25:10] Speaker 2: Gates. [2:25:10] Speaker 1: Good to see your friend. He says, guy doesn't understand [2:25:13] Speaker 1: publishing versus translations and updating so arrogantly wrong. It's funny [2:25:17] Speaker 1: that he's not just stupid and wrong, but he's arrogantly [2:25:20] Speaker 1: stupid and wrong, and from from so No again, communism [2:25:26] Speaker 1: I know, but that doesn't matter to me. Well, communism [2:25:30] Speaker 1: has nothing to do with atheism. I don't know if [2:25:32] Speaker 1: you know that. And if you read your Bible you [2:25:34] Speaker 1: know that the early Church were essentially communists. Peter says, [2:25:37] Speaker 1: fifty of Sof's hard earned dollars just to preach in vain. [2:25:42] Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy, Peter? He's already spout like fifty or [2:25:45] Speaker 1: sixty bucks. [2:25:46] Speaker 2: Up here. [2:25:49] Speaker 1: And Saint Barnabas thank you so much and says, quite [2:25:52] Speaker 1: a conundrum the guests put himself in. I see the [2:25:55] Speaker 1: plan on words. That's good, says, came up with an [2:25:57] Speaker 1: axe to grind Huffy and Puffy I need to get [2:26:00] Speaker 1: thoroughly curb stomped on every point. Shameful performance. Yeah, that's [2:26:05] Speaker 1: how he does. I've never seen Dirden come into my [2:26:08] Speaker 1: live stream and be reasonable. He always comes in just [2:26:11] Speaker 1: fucking pissed off. It just I got something to say, [2:26:15] Speaker 1: you dirty atheists shat. That's why I gotta call you. [2:26:20] Speaker 1: I can't pronounce the name of your chat for now [2:26:21] Speaker 1: on thank you for the super tests. [2:26:23] Speaker 2: Holy shit. [2:26:23] Speaker 1: I just realized I bought an updated version of Julia [2:26:26] Speaker 1: Vern's Collection or Julio Vern's Collection, because it's printed in [2:26:30] Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. Wonder what Vern would say? Yeah, could you [2:26:35] Speaker 1: imagine buying a new print it of like Harry Potter. [2:26:39] Speaker 1: I want to know what they added to it. That's [2:26:41] Speaker 1: what I want to know. And Solo look Sola is [2:26:43] Speaker 1: still here. He's still going, he says to Gray Highlighter. [2:26:48] Speaker 1: Jesus loves you, bro. He doesn't he's dead. He's worm food, buddy, [2:26:52] Speaker 1: he has gone. Get over it all right, I'm gonna [2:26:55] Speaker 1: read like four more super chests. We'll get our next [2:26:57] Speaker 1: guest in here. The nightman cometh great to see you. [2:27:00] Speaker 1: Thank you for the ten hour supertest, says If this [2:27:01] Speaker 1: guy's a psychotherapist and I'm happily married to Anne Hathaway, listen, [2:27:07] Speaker 1: I here's my guess. He's not employed. He's not employed anywhere. [2:27:12] Speaker 1: He's got to be a self employed therapist. Jennifer says, [2:27:15] Speaker 1: I'm crawling out of my skin. I never heard someone [2:27:17] Speaker 1: say so much, get so much wrong, not know the [2:27:20] Speaker 1: meaning of reprint, and think he's winning. This is next [2:27:23] Speaker 1: level delusion. It's the craziest thing that they'll bang their head, [2:27:27] Speaker 1: that will literally banged their head against the wall and [2:27:29] Speaker 1: be like, I'm not banging my head against the wall. [2:27:31] Speaker 1: The wall's not even here. You don't even know what [2:27:33] Speaker 1: you're looking at, as he's literally bleeding out from the [2:27:36] Speaker 1: forehead and so so no, so no, I don't know [2:27:42] Speaker 1: how much money you're gonna spend up here today. You're [2:27:44] Speaker 1: welcome to spend all your money preaching, because this man [2:27:49] Speaker 1: is simply here to destroy, not billed. Yes, you've nailed it. [2:27:52] Speaker 1: I'm here to destroy your toxic religion. He is ungodly. [2:27:56] Speaker 1: I know I am ungodly and not a father of Jesus. Right, [2:28:00] Speaker 1: that's the fucking point, Sono. Do not follow in his [2:28:03] Speaker 1: ways for the lead only to destruction. Show me hell okay, [2:28:09] Speaker 1: so no, no, show me where hell is? And he's guys, [2:28:12] Speaker 1: he's still fucking, he's still going. He's still We need [2:28:15] Speaker 1: to make a clip of just Sono superchats. Sono says, [2:28:19] Speaker 1: BMW two BMW Wilson. Then, I'm afraid you won't make [2:28:22] Speaker 1: it into the eternal kingdom of God made Jesus. Have [2:28:24] Speaker 1: mercy on you and all who food. Imagine spending your [2:28:31] Speaker 1: hard earned money on this here he is again uncynical. [2:28:36] Speaker 1: That won't change the fact that Jesus is coming back [2:28:38] Speaker 1: with an unquestionable, unquenchable fire. He's coming back for God's Jon. [2:28:43] Speaker 1: He ain't coming, guy, he said he was coming two [2:28:45] Speaker 1: thousand years ago. He ain't coming. He's a clown. He [2:28:49] Speaker 1: is a clown. And so no hold on, he's got [2:28:52] Speaker 1: another one in here. He's got another one. Give me [2:28:55] Speaker 1: a second. There's so foot, there's so many Sono superchats. [2:29:00] Speaker 1: So many Fearing God is the first step to wisdom. [2:29:04] Speaker 6: It's not. [2:29:04] Speaker 1: It's the first step to stupidity. So no, and here [2:29:07] Speaker 1: he is again saying to the inquisitor, read the Bible. [2:29:10] Speaker 1: We've all read it. That's why we don't believe. Get [2:29:12] Speaker 1: to know him and he will understand. He is true [2:29:16] Speaker 1: and just in his judgments. He's certainly not just in [2:29:19] Speaker 1: his judgment. He executes people for crimes he never committed. [2:29:23] Speaker 1: There are perfect examples in the Bible. There's not. The example, [2:29:26] Speaker 1: he says in the Bible is that he's a clown. [2:29:28] Speaker 1: And he's still fucking going. Guys, He's still going. He says, [2:29:33] Speaker 1: you mock Jesus and God, but he still loves you. [2:29:36] Speaker 1: He doesn't because he doesn't exist. So no, we're mocking you. [2:29:40] Speaker 2: You're the one being mocked. And here he is. [2:29:43] Speaker 1: Don't spat like a hundred dollars to preach in this [2:29:46] Speaker 1: live stream today. This is crazy work, he says. I [2:29:52] Speaker 1: won't pray for you and your family. Don't worry. It's [2:29:54] Speaker 1: not gonna do anything, not out of any hate or malice, [2:29:58] Speaker 1: but merely asking God to fill you with the wholy spirit, [2:30:00] Speaker 1: have good and God, God bless Oh so no, listen, [2:30:07] Speaker 1: you did at least one thing for us. You gave [2:30:09] Speaker 1: us a laugh today. Oh my God, here's still still more. [2:30:12] Speaker 1: I had no idea there was so many Sono chats. [2:30:15] Speaker 1: Sono says to minute Row, all the followers of Jesus [2:30:19] Speaker 1: Christ are supposed to spread the gospel. It's our purpose [2:30:22] Speaker 1: on this earth to do just that. In the Last Day. Yeah, [2:30:27] Speaker 1: we've been in the Last Days for two thousand years. [2:30:29] Speaker 1: We can only bring people with us into heaven. You're [2:30:31] Speaker 1: not going to bring anyone into heaven because heaven doesn't exist. [2:30:34] Speaker 1: You're delusional, but keep trying. Let me see. I'm gonna [2:30:38] Speaker 1: read out all of Sono's chats in a row just [2:30:40] Speaker 1: so you can see the crash out. Here's another one [2:30:42] Speaker 1: from Sono. They keep going, guys for people will be [2:30:45] Speaker 1: lovers of self, lovers of money, proud. You've got some commas, abusive, [2:30:50] Speaker 1: disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy heartness, unappeasable, slanderous, without [2:30:56] Speaker 1: self control, brutal, not loving. You just described Christians. So [2:31:02] Speaker 1: thank you for that. And here he is again. God, [2:31:04] Speaker 1: I have no idea why he's sending so many superchats. [2:31:07] Speaker 1: At Johnny. I can't accept letting all of you be [2:31:10] Speaker 1: ignorant of the truth. Neither can God. I desire to [2:31:13] Speaker 1: see you in heaven or at least make it, and [2:31:15] Speaker 1: if I don't, then so be it. At least you [2:31:18] Speaker 1: did so. No, man, listen, you're in a world of hurt. [2:31:22] Speaker 1: You're gonna I hope you've got money in the bank [2:31:24] Speaker 1: to spend all this money entirely wasted on preaching. [2:31:30] Speaker 2: Here he is again. [2:31:30] Speaker 1: All right, I did my part. The seeds have been planned, [2:31:33] Speaker 1: No they haven't. You threw a bunch of seeds out [2:31:36] Speaker 1: into the literal middle of the highway and they're gonna [2:31:40] Speaker 1: get crushed and destroyed. It's up to God to water them. [2:31:43] Speaker 1: They're not getting watered. And also, your seeds are rotten. [2:31:46] Speaker 1: Nobody actually wants them. Okay, So I think that's sorry [2:31:50] Speaker 1: about that. I want he sent so many. I wanted [2:31:52] Speaker 1: to read all of his superchats. I'm gonna I'm gonna [2:31:55] Speaker 1: end it there and I will I will cover the [2:31:59] Speaker 1: other super chats later. All right, let me grab our [2:32:02] Speaker 1: next from the queue. I promise we'd get Creed in [2:32:05] Speaker 1: here again. Creed and I have talked a couple of [2:32:08] Speaker 1: times so how are you doing, Creed? [2:32:14] Speaker 7: I then here for hours, dude, I know, all right, [2:32:21] Speaker 7: so you gotta start. You're gonna ask any questions. [2:32:23] Speaker 1: Like right, yeah, we know you're eighteen, nothing wrong there, yes, [2:32:28] Speaker 1: and we know you believe in Jesus mostly yes, okay, yes, [2:32:33] Speaker 1: And I presume you've come back to the stream with [2:32:36] Speaker 1: a different argument. You want to run by us? Yes, true, [2:32:40] Speaker 1: So what's the argument? [2:32:42] Speaker 3: So? [2:32:43] Speaker 7: So, so you do not live to Christianity? Obviously you [2:32:46] Speaker 7: don't think the Christianity is true in the side of [2:32:47] Speaker 7: so like you don't think there's anything unusual about it [2:32:50] Speaker 7: or helps spread across the world. [2:32:52] Speaker 1: No, not at all. I think it's spread just like Islam, [2:32:55] Speaker 1: just like any other religion that's spread quickly through a [2:32:58] Speaker 1: military force. [2:33:02] Speaker 2: Well, in the in the in the Bible, like Paul [2:33:04] Speaker 2: and Peter, like they kind of they reference each other [2:33:06] Speaker 2: almost like these are like something you claim that these [2:33:09] Speaker 2: authors aren't weren't less likely weren't real people. They also [2:33:12] Speaker 2: they all referenced each other and each other's scriptures like [2:33:14] Speaker 2: they like know things they can constantly know. [2:33:16] Speaker 1: So Second Peter references Paul because Second Peter was written [2:33:20] Speaker 1: by somebody who wasn't Peter who lived after Paul. So [2:33:25] Speaker 1: Second Peter was written after Paul wrote his letters, and [2:33:28] Speaker 1: almost no scholar I know of things that's actually from Peter. [2:33:31] Speaker 1: Now you could say it's from Peter, but I don't [2:33:34] Speaker 1: know if that helps. Even if we even if we [2:33:37] Speaker 1: granted you that Peter wrote Second Peter, the fact that [2:33:40] Speaker 1: he mentions Paul is meaningless. Paul had already written the letters. [2:33:43] Speaker 1: He should know about the letters. [2:33:46] Speaker 7: So when is Second Peter data compared to the atistles [2:33:49] Speaker 7: of Paul. [2:33:50] Speaker 1: Well, second Peter's they did late. So the epistles of [2:33:53] Speaker 1: Paul typically dated in the fifties and sixties, whereas the [2:33:57] Speaker 1: letter of Peter or sorry, second Peter's typically dated to [2:34:01] Speaker 1: like the eighties or even later, maybe nineties. I can [2:34:05] Speaker 1: give you a dating of a typical dating anywhere between [2:34:11] Speaker 1: the sixties, earliest as the sixties. I don't think that's [2:34:16] Speaker 1: a good date as late as the second century, like [2:34:18] Speaker 1: the late second century, like the one fifties, sixties, seventies. [2:34:22] Speaker 1: But my guess is that they're probably written towards the [2:34:27] Speaker 1: end of the first century, like not too far away [2:34:31] Speaker 1: from the time period of John. I think one of [2:34:34] Speaker 1: the reasons why this seems to be the case. Is [2:34:36] Speaker 1: because in the epistol of Second Peter, the Jews are [2:34:40] Speaker 1: already in diaspora, They've already been spread abroad, They've already [2:34:44] Speaker 1: been like kicked the fuck out, which happened in seventies. [2:34:51] Speaker 2: I guess that's true. [2:34:52] Speaker 7: But think about Christianity then, is it like you know different, [2:34:55] Speaker 7: is that they should buy a lot of persecution, like [2:34:57] Speaker 7: over the years, like they had to constantly dan the [2:34:59] Speaker 7: run and people that are trying to kill them, and [2:35:02] Speaker 7: why the people have such an angry relation christian They. [2:35:06] Speaker 1: Literally controlled the government, like they took control over the [2:35:10] Speaker 1: government under Constantine and then under Theodosius, so on and [2:35:14] Speaker 1: so forth, and they mandated that Christianity be like a [2:35:17] Speaker 1: real thing, but it wasn't that big until it was [2:35:19] Speaker 1: a government mandate. In fact, you can read like the [2:35:22] Speaker 1: apostate emperor Emperor Julian talking about this Julian reign in [2:35:26] Speaker 1: the middle of the fourth century, not that long after Constantine, [2:35:30] Speaker 1: and he mentions how it was a small religion that [2:35:33] Speaker 1: was like taking advantage of the uneducated and in the widows. [2:35:40] Speaker 7: It was like that kind of like conspiracy theory to [2:35:43] Speaker 7: be like, oh, Christianity was just pushed by these big [2:35:46] Speaker 7: governments that were trying to manipulate people. [2:35:49] Speaker 1: They were. [2:35:52] Speaker 7: Like with your editors for that, outside of like constracy theories, it's. [2:35:54] Speaker 1: Not conspiracy theories. We actually have the documents that show [2:35:59] Speaker 1: the edicts that were given out, the Edict of Milan [2:36:01] Speaker 1: and some of the other edicts and like all of [2:36:04] Speaker 1: the heretical edicts as well, demonstrating that well shit, the [2:36:08] Speaker 1: Church is now executing heretics. And the Church went on [2:36:11] Speaker 1: to execute heretics. In fact, one of the earliest ones [2:36:16] Speaker 1: wasn't even like a lapsed Christian or lapsed Jew. He [2:36:19] Speaker 1: was just a Greek philosopher. That Emperor Valens was like, [2:36:24] Speaker 1: fuck that guy, kill him. He's teaching things contrary to [2:36:27] Speaker 1: the to the Christian Church. Let's go kill him. He's [2:36:31] Speaker 1: got students he shouldn't be doing. That was Emperor Valens [2:36:35] Speaker 1: out here just killing Greek philosophers. [2:36:39] Speaker 7: Well he was obviously in the wrong, like there's no [2:36:42] Speaker 7: justification for a murder. [2:36:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, And they literally went around burning literature. There was [2:36:47] Speaker 1: a book burning as early as Constantine that they were [2:36:52] Speaker 1: trying to stamp out everything but Christianity and spread it [2:36:56] Speaker 1: by the sword, and they were fairly successful. [2:37:00] Speaker 7: No, that's not really they cannot really a pause. It [2:37:02] Speaker 7: just things people in the past who watch Christianity did [2:37:05] Speaker 7: bad things. It doesn't really have the great argument to [2:37:06] Speaker 7: say why it's not true. It's just some people will [2:37:08] Speaker 7: advanage that. [2:37:08] Speaker 1: I didn't say that. I said it it spread because [2:37:13] Speaker 1: of violence and oppression. I never said it wasn't true [2:37:16] Speaker 1: because of. [2:37:16] Speaker 7: That, Okay, And I wasn't really saying you were saying that. [2:37:20] Speaker 7: I think some people will kind of argue that Christianity [2:37:22] Speaker 7: and that's just dad things were done in Christianity's name, [2:37:25] Speaker 7: and is it not true to hear? Okay, So what's [2:37:29] Speaker 7: your argument is that You're argument is that this does [2:37:32] Speaker 7: not make it not true. It's just one of the [2:37:33] Speaker 7: reasons why you're Christianity. [2:37:36] Speaker 1: No, I was just responding to the thing that you claimed. [2:37:39] Speaker 1: Do you ask me for an explanation for why it [2:37:41] Speaker 1: spread so rapidly and I give it to you. [2:37:43] Speaker 6: Okay. [2:37:45] Speaker 7: But you know, so I hear you say that you [2:37:47] Speaker 7: think the Apocassa should be part of the canon. Yeah, [2:37:52] Speaker 7: but there's things apocapsas that aren't really Christian in any way, [2:37:54] Speaker 7: shop or form. [2:37:55] Speaker 1: They literally would be Christian if they're part of the canon, [2:37:57] Speaker 1: then they're by definition of Christian. [2:38:01] Speaker 7: That there are ways you can tell which books that [2:38:03] Speaker 7: the canon just by looking at them. [2:38:04] Speaker 1: No, there's not. [2:38:07] Speaker 7: Well, the signs of God, like you can tell like [2:38:10] Speaker 7: like this, that's what was what God is saying. Like [2:38:12] Speaker 7: obviously the Gospel of like Thomas would not be something [2:38:16] Speaker 7: that you put in the Christian canon, because Jesus tells [2:38:19] Speaker 7: us to think any that to going ahead and shay [2:38:21] Speaker 7: to them nan. [2:38:22] Speaker 6: Or something like that. [2:38:22] Speaker 7: Like you can see if something obviously safe. There's all [2:38:24] Speaker 7: kinds of quotes like that in the Apocrassa as well. [2:38:29] Speaker 1: So in the Apocrypha. Of what we find are lots [2:38:32] Speaker 1: of Christian texts being quoted by the early Church. [2:38:35] Speaker 2: In fact, all of the early Church. [2:38:38] Speaker 1: Quoted from the Apocrypha and referred to it as prophecy [2:38:41] Speaker 1: and scripture. Even as early as the Epistle of Barnabas. [2:38:44] Speaker 1: The Epistle of Barnabas, which was one of the earliest [2:38:48] Speaker 1: Christian writings, we have literally quotes from the Book of [2:38:52] Speaker 1: Wisdom Wisdom of Solomon and refers to it as prophetic. [2:39:00] Speaker 7: Yes, but it's not like it's though, like people can't [2:39:02] Speaker 7: be wrong with that thing. [2:39:03] Speaker 1: It's prophetic, it's from God. Scripture is what's your definition [2:39:11] Speaker 1: of scripture? [2:39:12] Speaker 7: Scripture is God breathed material that is designed to correct. [2:39:18] Speaker 2: Prophecies, not from God. [2:39:21] Speaker 5: They are. [2:39:21] Speaker 7: But is the epistle that you just mentioned, is that [2:39:23] Speaker 7: actually official scripture? [2:39:25] Speaker 3: No? [2:39:25] Speaker 1: No, I didn't say the epistle I'm quoting from is scripture. [2:39:28] Speaker 1: What I'm saying is the earliest Christian writings we have [2:39:32] Speaker 1: agree that the apocryphal works should be considered scripture. They [2:39:37] Speaker 1: call it prophetic. They say that it's inspired by God. [2:39:40] Speaker 1: Is that it's uttered by God? They say that it [2:39:42] Speaker 1: In fact, Justin Martyr made an argument suggesting that the [2:39:46] Speaker 1: Jews were conspiring to get rid of the Apocrypha because [2:39:49] Speaker 1: it did contain prophecies about Jesus. [2:39:54] Speaker 7: Would you say that, Would you say that they contain [2:39:56] Speaker 7: properties about Jesus? [2:39:58] Speaker 1: No, I don't think they do. But Justin Martyr, and [2:40:00] Speaker 1: he's most likely quoting to referring to the Wisdom of [2:40:04] Speaker 1: Solomon chapter two. But unfortunately, the Wisdom of Solomon chapter [2:40:08] Speaker 1: two was written after Jesus already died. So but you [2:40:12] Speaker 1: you could definitely see why he would think that it's [2:40:15] Speaker 1: about Jesus. If you don't know when it was written [2:40:17] Speaker 1: and you just assumed it was part of your canons. [2:40:22] Speaker 7: Well, you know, Jesus never quotes in the You know, [2:40:25] Speaker 7: Jesus never quotes in any of those texts that he's. [2:40:32] Speaker 2: See. Jesus. [2:40:33] Speaker 1: You know, the idea of you will know them by [2:40:35] Speaker 1: their fruits comes from Sirac twenty seven. That's like from Yeah, [2:40:41] Speaker 1: it comes from look of Syrac. Same thing in Matthew [2:40:44] Speaker 1: six when he talks about storing up treasures in heaven, [2:40:48] Speaker 1: that comes from Syrac as well. The apocryphal books were [2:40:52] Speaker 1: all over the dead Sea scrolls. Whoever the dead Sea [2:40:55] Speaker 1: community was, they valued the apocrypha as scripture. And Jesus [2:41:01] Speaker 1: clearly came from the dead Sea community. [2:41:05] Speaker 7: You know, how is is Jesus like Jesus? You know, [2:41:07] Speaker 7: Jesus talks about the Moses. Obviously, Jesus believes that the [2:41:10] Speaker 7: Torero written by Moses. [2:41:11] Speaker 1: When you say so, I think Jesus thought the Torah [2:41:14] Speaker 1: was for Moses. Yeah, and so does he? [2:41:18] Speaker 7: Does he other really quote in these other autographer works [2:41:21] Speaker 7: says a social scripture from God. [2:41:23] Speaker 1: Does Jesus refer to anything else as scripture? I don't [2:41:27] Speaker 1: know that he says that it's scripture, but he doesn't [2:41:30] Speaker 1: indeed quote from it. [2:41:34] Speaker 7: So I was just trying to say that the Christian [2:41:35] Speaker 7: canon is pretty clear, like you know, the Bible like [2:41:38] Speaker 7: this status, like it all sets together perfectly. [2:41:41] Speaker 1: So what you're suggesting is you don't like the original [2:41:44] Speaker 1: Christian canon. That's what you're saying. It was good enough [2:41:47] Speaker 1: for the Catholic Church, it was good enough for the [2:41:49] Speaker 1: Orthodox Church, it was good enough for the Ethiopian Church, [2:41:52] Speaker 1: it was good enough for literally everybody for hundreds of years. [2:41:56] Speaker 1: It wasn't until much later some people figured out that, hey, [2:42:01] Speaker 1: not all of the Jews treat this as canonical. Maybe [2:42:05] Speaker 1: we shouldn't either, But that's irrelevance whether or not the [2:42:08] Speaker 1: early Christians treated them as canonical. [2:42:12] Speaker 7: Well, obviously, canonization is not just the only, the only [2:42:15] Speaker 7: thing you should prove that Christianity is true, but it's [2:42:18] Speaker 7: the Cenisation is prete August because in SCRIPTUOI references what [2:42:21] Speaker 7: can't what looks already been seen as canon, like you [2:42:23] Speaker 7: see in the New testing that what looks for being [2:42:25] Speaker 7: referred to by other authors, So they can. [2:42:28] Speaker 1: They literally quote from the Book of Enoch and Jude [2:42:30] Speaker 1: and in Second Peter. [2:42:32] Speaker 7: Yes, but The way I see Jude doing it is [2:42:34] Speaker 7: that Judas saying that they're like, you know, so certain [2:42:36] Speaker 7: certain people looking get things right, and so Judas quoting [2:42:38] Speaker 7: a section of Enoch, they're not noting it like it's [2:42:41] Speaker 7: like official. [2:42:42] Speaker 1: He said it's a prophecy. He called Enoch a prophet. [2:42:47] Speaker 7: Did he called that he held the entire book officially [2:42:49] Speaker 7: from God? [2:42:50] Speaker 1: No, he said Enoch was prophesying. In fact, I'll read [2:42:54] Speaker 1: it to you. And Jude says it was also about [2:42:56] Speaker 1: these that Enoch in the seventh generation from Adam prophesied, saying, [2:43:00] Speaker 1: see the Lord is coming with ten thousands of his [2:43:03] Speaker 1: holy ones. That comes from first Enoch, chapter nine. So [2:43:07] Speaker 1: if ch if he's reading the book of Enoch and [2:43:09] Speaker 1: saying that Enoch is prophesying, then obviously he considers Enoch [2:43:13] Speaker 1: to be giving prophecies. He didn't say what part of Enoch. [2:43:17] Speaker 1: He didn't say that. I don't believe in any of [2:43:19] Speaker 1: Enoch other than this one verse. Why would anyone believe that? [2:43:22] Speaker 1: Why would anyone believe that Enoch isn't a true book [2:43:27] Speaker 1: except for this one line from Enoch? [2:43:32] Speaker 7: The good point? How come the Protestant cannon chose to [2:43:35] Speaker 7: lose most of those books like what they doesn't know [2:43:38] Speaker 7: this is bad. [2:43:39] Speaker 1: I don't think they ever said it was bad. They [2:43:41] Speaker 1: just didn't concern canonical So the way things went was Jerome. [2:43:46] Speaker 1: When Jerome was charged to put together a Latin version [2:43:50] Speaker 1: of the Bible that made better sense of the old Latin. [2:43:52] Speaker 1: So we had old Latin manuscripts which were originally translations [2:43:57] Speaker 1: of the Greek Sceptuagen, but they were in a bit [2:43:58] Speaker 1: of a disarray that didn't have like a good official copy, [2:44:01] Speaker 1: and so they put Jerome on the task of saying, listen, [2:44:05] Speaker 1: we need you to collate all of the old Latin [2:44:08] Speaker 1: manuscripts and give us a good, updated Latin manuscript that [2:44:11] Speaker 1: has everything and used the best sources you have available [2:44:15] Speaker 1: to you. Well, he went one up. He said, no, no, no, [2:44:19] Speaker 1: I'm not just going to collate the Latin manuscripts. I'm [2:44:21] Speaker 1: going to go back to the actual Greek and Hebrew [2:44:24] Speaker 1: and actually see if what we have in Latin is appropriate, [2:44:28] Speaker 1: and if not, I can make adjustments. So he actually [2:44:31] Speaker 1: already knew Greek, but he visited with who he calls [2:44:34] Speaker 1: the Chowdeans. Those are what was left of the Hebrews [2:44:37] Speaker 1: to learn Hebrew so he went and learned Hebrew from [2:44:41] Speaker 1: actual rabbis, and then as he's learning Hebrew, the topic [2:44:45] Speaker 1: of the Hebrew canon became something to talk about, and [2:44:50] Speaker 1: he discovered through his learning from the Hebrews that the [2:44:53] Speaker 1: Hebrews didn't officially count all of these books as canonical [2:44:57] Speaker 1: and reality in Jesus' time period there was canon. The [2:45:00] Speaker 1: Jews didn't close the canon for like one hundred years [2:45:03] Speaker 1: after Jesus. So Jerome was like, hey, guys, we should [2:45:07] Speaker 1: look at this because like we are touting the Old [2:45:10] Speaker 1: Testament books here, like the Apocrypha, as though they're part [2:45:13] Speaker 1: of the canon, but the Jews don't actually agree with us. [2:45:17] Speaker 1: But the rest of the church was like, no, fuck you, [2:45:19] Speaker 1: these are canonical, and they even had councils declaring them [2:45:22] Speaker 1: as canonical. So Jrome was basically overruled. And this went [2:45:27] Speaker 1: on on and on and on all the way. [2:45:29] Speaker 2: Until the Protestant Reformation. [2:45:30] Speaker 1: No one cared about this topic, roughly again until the [2:45:35] Speaker 1: Protestant Reformation, and then some of the Protestants did the [2:45:39] Speaker 1: same thing. We're said, listen, we should get rid of [2:45:41] Speaker 1: these Latin manuscripts and get manuscripts in our own native tongue, [2:45:45] Speaker 1: and we should translate them from the Greek and Hebrew. [2:45:47] Speaker 1: And then when they went back to translate from the [2:45:49] Speaker 1: Greek and Hebrews, they had the Hebrew text, the massoretic [2:45:53] Speaker 1: official Jewish Hebrew text that didn't include the Apocypha. And [2:45:56] Speaker 1: then they're like, Hey, why the hell are we doing [2:45:59] Speaker 1: this krap thing if the Jews don't consider canonical. The [2:46:02] Speaker 1: reality was in the time period of the Early Church, [2:46:05] Speaker 1: there was no Jewish canon, which means these books were [2:46:09] Speaker 1: canonical to the Christians no matter what the Jews thought [2:46:13] Speaker 1: about it. [2:46:14] Speaker 7: Well, we know that the Jews, the Jewish people could [2:46:17] Speaker 7: recognize when, like when scripture was from God, because at [2:46:20] Speaker 7: this twenty four seven it shows them understanding it immediately [2:46:23] Speaker 7: they have it from God, like you can see in [2:46:25] Speaker 7: script themselves say understand's actually was from God. [2:46:27] Speaker 1: But they said the Early Church said that the Apocrypha [2:46:30] Speaker 1: was from God too. [2:46:33] Speaker 7: I think they're mistakes. You know, It's like there is [2:46:35] Speaker 7: like that part of the problem that there is no [2:46:37] Speaker 7: like church institution that's authoritated. It should be the Church [2:46:41] Speaker 7: is a people group, not non institution. [2:46:43] Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. The people who formed the Christian Church, [2:46:46] Speaker 1: the people said, we are Christians and we are the [2:46:49] Speaker 1: defenders of Christianity. All of them agreed when they read [2:46:54] Speaker 1: from the Apocrypha that it was scripture. It wasn't until [2:46:57] Speaker 1: much later that people started to question it. And the [2:46:59] Speaker 1: reality is the Early Church, the Christians who founded Christianity, [2:47:04] Speaker 1: believed in these books as canonical. They quoted from them, [2:47:09] Speaker 1: they use them. They even the dedicate the earliest writing [2:47:13] Speaker 1: we have of the Early Church claim to come down [2:47:16] Speaker 1: from the Apostles directly quotes from the Book of Sirac twice. [2:47:23] Speaker 7: Well, just because this looks you know, God chooses what's [2:47:26] Speaker 7: in the canon, and so maybe he's God is like, okay, [2:47:28] Speaker 7: those books are to let sure, people, let's keep the [2:47:31] Speaker 7: books that really matter for the right. [2:47:35] Speaker 2: No, that's what I'm saying. [2:47:36] Speaker 1: If you believe in God and you believe in a canon, [2:47:38] Speaker 1: then you're required to believe what Justin Martyr believes, which [2:47:41] Speaker 1: is that all of these books are canonical and that [2:47:43] Speaker 1: the Jews are wrong. You're choosing to side with the [2:47:46] Speaker 1: Jews rather than the Christians. I don't know if you [2:47:48] Speaker 1: know that yet. [2:47:51] Speaker 7: Well, sometimes you know, it's a it's a good point. [2:47:54] Speaker 7: It's it's complicated, but I think that there's truth you [2:47:58] Speaker 7: can see. You know, the Scripture itself teached you knowed [2:48:00] Speaker 7: something from God as through to the spirits like lotjoy, [2:48:03] Speaker 7: peace stations. [2:48:04] Speaker 1: I don't think so. [2:48:07] Speaker 7: Like the Atographa, these books, they don't they they have [2:48:10] Speaker 7: concepts and they are not really in scripture. I don't [2:48:12] Speaker 7: know Maccabee's is as atographer, but it actually talks about [2:48:15] Speaker 7: like praying for the day. That's not something that Christians [2:48:17] Speaker 7: believe in. [2:48:17] Speaker 1: Her First Christians believe in that first and second Maccabeees [2:48:20] Speaker 1: does refer to that. And yes, the earlier Christians did [2:48:23] Speaker 1: believe in that. They were literally congregating at people's tombs [2:48:27] Speaker 1: praying for them. In fact, this is recorded in a [2:48:30] Speaker 1: number of the early Christian texts. They would hold assemblies [2:48:34] Speaker 1: at the tombs of the dead Christian martyrs, and. [2:48:39] Speaker 7: So it was actly what they'd be praying for them [2:48:41] Speaker 7: to do. [2:48:43] Speaker 1: They would be praying for an apparition or a message, [2:48:46] Speaker 1: or even just that they could get their soul unbound [2:48:48] Speaker 1: from Helm. So basically turgatory, Yeah, purgatory is right way [2:48:55] Speaker 1: for it. There's a reason why the early Church believes [2:48:58] Speaker 1: in the apocryphse believes in purgatory or he believes in [2:49:00] Speaker 1: all this stuff. You got to remember the Protestants, the [2:49:03] Speaker 1: people who came after the Catholics. Those are the people [2:49:06] Speaker 1: that looked back on Christian history and said, all of [2:49:09] Speaker 1: Christian history you're wrong. It's the Protestants who came around [2:49:14] Speaker 1: and said, we think you get it's got it all wrong. [2:49:17] Speaker 1: Even though Protestants refused the charge, they refused to study [2:49:20] Speaker 1: Church history. They have no idea why the Catholics even [2:49:23] Speaker 1: include the Apocryphone. They're clueless. [2:49:26] Speaker 2: They don't study it well. [2:49:28] Speaker 7: On London, the Restorationist movement like on Church of Christ, [2:49:31] Speaker 7: and that's Restorationists. Have you heard of that movement before? [2:49:34] Speaker 1: I know about the Church of Christ. Unfortunately you're not [2:49:36] Speaker 1: part of the United Church of Christ. But that's okay. [2:49:40] Speaker 7: Well, I'm just I'm trying to say that we don't [2:49:42] Speaker 7: really believe the people believe that there were a lot [2:49:44] Speaker 7: in the States in Christian history. Preachers diaid it like this, [2:49:48] Speaker 7: It's like a play, like people took wrong turns through [2:49:50] Speaker 7: history and the decisions that were contrary of God and [2:49:54] Speaker 7: Christianity was crutched very early on, and so a lot [2:49:57] Speaker 7: of Christian writings outside of the Bible, aren't. Well, you [2:50:00] Speaker 7: look this friture like people like venerating the saints, not [2:50:04] Speaker 7: anything and not anywhere in Scritcher. It's a it's an [2:50:06] Speaker 7: including that this is all. [2:50:08] Speaker 2: And what's wrong with venerating the saints? Do you even [2:50:10] Speaker 2: know what that means? Yes? [2:50:13] Speaker 7: And so you're like, you're asking them to pray for [2:50:15] Speaker 7: you to try to go. It's just it's very convoluted. [2:50:17] Speaker 1: It's that convoluted at all. If if you believe that [2:50:20] Speaker 1: the spirit of your departed loved ones are still alive, [2:50:25] Speaker 1: why do you think you couldn't be able to communicate [2:50:26] Speaker 1: with them? [2:50:29] Speaker 7: Because it says in the Bible, and it says in [2:50:32] Speaker 7: Criture not to pray for the dead, not that it's [2:50:34] Speaker 7: something of the dead. [2:50:34] Speaker 1: Where does say that you like the Old Testament? No, [2:50:38] Speaker 1: I didn't say that at all. There's a commandment. There's [2:50:42] Speaker 1: a commandment in the Old Testament talking about not doing necromancy. [2:50:48] Speaker 1: Necromancy is when you try to bring up a soul [2:50:51] Speaker 1: from the dead, like what happened with the Witch of Endoor. [2:50:56] Speaker 2: Yeah. [2:50:58] Speaker 7: See, there is nobody in heaven right now. They are [2:51:01] Speaker 7: in paradise, which is not even the sky is the [2:51:04] Speaker 7: second problem. There's no there's no third dimension like outside [2:51:09] Speaker 7: of the earth and the sky called heaven. Heaven is [2:51:11] Speaker 7: literally just the sky. In fact, all of the Greek [2:51:13] Speaker 7: and Hebrew writings tell you about this. If you read [2:51:17] Speaker 7: like the the writings of the ancient Greeks, and they'll [2:51:21] Speaker 7: they say the same thing. Heaven is that place up [2:51:24] Speaker 7: there right above our heads. Yeah, I mean yeah, yeah, [2:51:31] Speaker 7: that's just the station, like nothing nothing about the the cloud, [2:51:35] Speaker 7: Ray said, idea, that's all. It's actually the sky. [2:51:37] Speaker 1: No, everything does. Literally, the Hebrew word for heaven is [2:51:40] Speaker 1: sky hashamayam, and the Greek word around us just mean [2:51:45] Speaker 1: the sky above you, the clouds. It says that the [2:51:48] Speaker 1: birds fly through hashamyam, they fly through the heavens. When [2:51:53] Speaker 1: they build a tower. In Genesis, it says they're trying [2:51:56] Speaker 1: to build a tower to reach the heavens, reach hashamayam. [2:51:59] Speaker 2: This guy. [2:52:01] Speaker 1: Certainly they don't think that they're going to build a [2:52:03] Speaker 1: tower that reaches into outer space and hit Jupiter. [2:52:09] Speaker 7: Theoretically speaking, even if it was in the sky wouldn't matter. [2:52:12] Speaker 7: Just God can they cannot appear to human beings like [2:52:15] Speaker 7: you know, He has it hidden it from us. [2:52:17] Speaker 1: Okay, so you think there is another realm called Heaven [2:52:20] Speaker 1: that is in the sky somewhere. [2:52:22] Speaker 7: I'll believe the sky is very likely to juice to [2:52:24] Speaker 7: leave that it's just invisible. [2:52:27] Speaker 2: Yes, why would anyone believe that? [2:52:31] Speaker 7: Well, you don't have to believe it, but it's it's [2:52:33] Speaker 7: the most logic explanation for what heaven't like god Win [2:52:36] Speaker 7: had heaven like right up there, like right up for [2:52:39] Speaker 7: the first to see. [2:52:39] Speaker 2: It. [2:52:39] Speaker 7: Just be kind of ridiculous, dude, But you hit us [2:52:42] Speaker 7: free will. [2:52:43] Speaker 1: But according to Ezekiel, the new Heaven and new Earth [2:52:45] Speaker 1: is here, same thing with Isaiah sixty five. Isaiah sixty [2:52:48] Speaker 1: five says, the new Heaven and new Earth is here, [2:52:53] Speaker 1: not someplace. [2:52:56] Speaker 2: Even. Yeah, Ezekiel does talk about a new Heaven and [2:52:59] Speaker 2: and a new Earth. [2:53:00] Speaker 7: That's he's going to be here on Earth. But what [2:53:02] Speaker 7: that was to talk about, talk about what would happen [2:53:05] Speaker 7: as through Jesus came and diving across for us. But [2:53:09] Speaker 7: and now that we don't across, we're we're on a [2:53:11] Speaker 7: new Earth right now. We're not New Earth. [2:53:13] Speaker 1: But there's nothing in the Bible that says says you're [2:53:14] Speaker 1: going to die and go to heaven. [2:53:15] Speaker 2: It's not a thing. [2:53:20] Speaker 7: Yeah. In the Hebrew Bible, not live. In the New [2:53:22] Speaker 7: Bible Christian Bible, there is talk about dying and going [2:53:26] Speaker 7: to heaven. [2:53:26] Speaker 1: The Kingdom of Heaven is coming here. The goal is [2:53:30] Speaker 1: to take heaven up there and bring it down here. [2:53:33] Speaker 1: We're not dying and going up there. The goal is [2:53:36] Speaker 1: to get there here. That's why I says on earth [2:53:40] Speaker 1: as it is in heaven. That's that's the whole goal. [2:53:44] Speaker 7: And well, in Joe, he seems to believe that he [2:53:47] Speaker 7: will be resurrected because he talks to how aether. You [2:53:49] Speaker 7: believe that God, either heath dust will resurrect him. [2:53:53] Speaker 1: I know there were Jews that believe in the resurrection. [2:53:56] Speaker 1: I agree, but that doesn't mean they're being resurrected and [2:53:58] Speaker 1: going to heaven. [2:54:01] Speaker 6: Yes, but. [2:54:03] Speaker 7: Fanonical Old Tests in the book a towarth the idea [2:54:06] Speaker 7: of the resurrection. Why is that the case of the [2:54:08] Speaker 7: Jews are not leaving heather? [2:54:10] Speaker 1: I agree, Yes, in the Old Testament you will find [2:54:13] Speaker 1: the resurrection of the righteous. It's at a minimum two [2:54:16] Speaker 1: different locations. It's in the Book of Isaiah kind of tangentially. [2:54:21] Speaker 1: I think in chapter twenty nine if I remember correctly, [2:54:24] Speaker 1: And there's another one in Daniel chapter twelve and Daniel [2:54:28] Speaker 1: chapter twelve. Clearly he talks about the resurrection of the righteous. [2:54:33] Speaker 1: But that's a problem because according to the Book of Daniel, [2:54:36] Speaker 1: it seems like it should have happened right after the [2:54:39] Speaker 1: period of the Greeks. But he says, at that time, Michael, [2:54:42] Speaker 1: the Great Prince, the protector of your people, shall arise, [2:54:44] Speaker 1: and there shall be a time of anguish such as [2:54:47] Speaker 1: has never occurred since the nations first came into existence. [2:54:50] Speaker 1: But at that time your people shall be delivered everyone [2:54:53] Speaker 1: who has found written in the book, many of those [2:54:55] Speaker 1: who sleep in the dust of the air shall awake, [2:54:57] Speaker 1: some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. [2:55:02] Speaker 1: But doesn't say they're going to heaven. [2:55:07] Speaker 7: Yeah, right there, did you write not to say that? [2:55:08] Speaker 7: But the thought Jesus like is But she seems like [2:55:11] Speaker 7: a real guy, like Joe Cesis, you know, talks about [2:55:14] Speaker 7: him that I did miracles. [2:55:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he was a real guy. I don't [2:55:19] Speaker 1: think he was a miracle worker. I think there was [2:55:21] Speaker 1: a lot of early people who claimed the new miracle [2:55:23] Speaker 1: workers or to be miracle workers. I don't think that [2:55:26] Speaker 1: they were, you know, Vespasian classically was known to heal [2:55:30] Speaker 1: a guy by spitting in his eyes, and he healed [2:55:32] Speaker 1: a lame leg of a dude. As well said, there [2:55:35] Speaker 1: was a multitude of witnesses. There's a guy named Hony [2:55:39] Speaker 1: the Circle Drawer. He was a famous Jewish mystic that [2:55:42] Speaker 1: supposedly did a bunch of miracles that didn't seem to [2:55:45] Speaker 1: come to pass. There's another guy named Simon. Simon did [2:55:50] Speaker 1: all kinds of crazy miracles. And then maybe one of [2:55:53] Speaker 1: my favorite was Fanina Bendoza. Nina Bendoza, you can read [2:55:56] Speaker 1: about in the Talmud, was like literally doing the same [2:55:59] Speaker 1: thing Jesus was. He was like praying for people far [2:56:01] Speaker 1: off and healing them at a distance. Like like, miracle [2:56:06] Speaker 1: claims are not unique among the Greeks or the Romans. Literally, [2:56:10] Speaker 1: we have evidence of at least three hundred different institutions [2:56:14] Speaker 1: called Sclepii where people would go and receive healing, and [2:56:18] Speaker 1: there would be like a priest there and they would [2:56:20] Speaker 1: pray to the god as Sclepius to get healing, and [2:56:23] Speaker 1: they claim to be healed. [2:56:26] Speaker 5: Well. [2:56:27] Speaker 7: Well, the libel is kind of the libel doesn't say [2:56:29] Speaker 7: that other gods aren't real. I kind of believe that [2:56:31] Speaker 7: other guys are most likely demons, have these supernatural powers [2:56:34] Speaker 7: to do these things. [2:56:36] Speaker 1: Why why why wouldn't you say that the Greek or [2:56:39] Speaker 1: the Roman gods are real, and that the Jewish god [2:56:41] Speaker 1: is just one of many, and he's kind of like [2:56:44] Speaker 1: one of the weaker ones. [2:56:46] Speaker 7: Oh, he's not weaker because he trusts that all the [2:56:48] Speaker 7: old tests and how he's the best god, how he's [2:56:50] Speaker 7: above all the other ones. [2:56:52] Speaker 1: Well, Zeus disagrees. Zeus is a king of the sky. [2:56:56] Speaker 7: Zeus is no sizeless. If if there was in some [2:56:59] Speaker 7: way shame before in real there's most likely some kind [2:57:01] Speaker 7: of dramatic entity like a fallen angel. [2:57:03] Speaker 1: Where do you think lightning comes from? [2:57:06] Speaker 7: Well, it's the natural process. Oh so it's not from Zeus, No, [2:57:10] Speaker 7: because I don't live in Zeus. But if he was [2:57:12] Speaker 7: some kind of entity called soul, Zeus woulds likely the [2:57:14] Speaker 7: demonic in nature. [2:57:16] Speaker 1: Right, But I think you're kind of missing the point. [2:57:18] Speaker 1: The point is you believe in a god, and the [2:57:21] Speaker 1: people who believes in those gods would disagree with you. Right, [2:57:24] Speaker 1: So how do you know which belief in the so [2:57:27] Speaker 1: called gods is the right one? [2:57:31] Speaker 7: Well, look up the most evidence in the test, the [2:57:34] Speaker 7: new tests, and that the translations are incredible, like the [2:57:37] Speaker 7: way that they are translated, like almost folloshly translated. [2:57:40] Speaker 2: What you talk about translated. [2:57:43] Speaker 6: You're asking how to know God is real? [2:57:45] Speaker 7: Which religion is legit? You look at Christianity and you [2:57:47] Speaker 7: see that it's evidence is very strong. Things he's together [2:57:52] Speaker 7: like the topic like one they don't talk to something [2:57:54] Speaker 7: or another. [2:57:55] Speaker 2: They contradict each other endlessly. [2:57:58] Speaker 7: Yeah, I know the other day you were talking. You [2:58:00] Speaker 7: know that part in I Think Nasty, which says Jeremiah [2:58:02] Speaker 7: Clid something that naturally Zipharia said it. Yeah, that's a [2:58:08] Speaker 7: scribal error. It's not a very big dealscribal error. Well, [2:58:13] Speaker 7: it's see possible. The people were working really hard to [2:58:15] Speaker 7: translate these things. Let's say one night a month or [2:58:18] Speaker 7: some scribe was like sitting there tired and this the names. [2:58:21] Speaker 2: I know this story. [2:58:22] Speaker 1: I know scribal errors exist. I'm asking prove that that [2:58:25] Speaker 1: was a scribal error. [2:58:28] Speaker 7: Well, you can't, like, like, what's the earliest manscras we [2:58:30] Speaker 7: have of Matthew. [2:58:32] Speaker 1: The earliest manuscript of Matthew is going to be P [2:58:37] Speaker 1: one if I remember correctly, and P one is like [2:58:39] Speaker 1: second century. [2:58:41] Speaker 7: Does it contained that saying the error in it. Yeah, [2:58:46] Speaker 7: well if less it happened pretty early on in the [2:58:48] Speaker 7: process and nobody's really noticed it. But the message is [2:58:51] Speaker 7: still the same that they were prophesized and Cechhariah the [2:58:53] Speaker 7: first cycles soberly used to. [2:58:55] Speaker 1: Create pay Attentionine, paid attention. You have no evidence that [2:58:59] Speaker 1: it was a scribal error. You just want it to [2:59:04] Speaker 1: be a scribal error because it makes the gospel issue [2:59:07] Speaker 1: go away. But if it is indeed a scribal error, [2:59:10] Speaker 1: and it's been there ever since the second century, that's [2:59:14] Speaker 1: still on God. It means God couldn't preserve his word. [2:59:17] Speaker 1: He didn't want you to know what was actually there, [2:59:21] Speaker 1: and he didn't even give us the evidence. [2:59:25] Speaker 5: God knew that. [2:59:26] Speaker 7: God knew that one day he would have a dieb [2:59:27] Speaker 7: level able to cross reference it and know where it [2:59:29] Speaker 7: actually came from. [2:59:31] Speaker 3: Not lost. [2:59:33] Speaker 2: We have no evidence that was his that was his intention. [2:59:38] Speaker 6: I know that God. [2:59:39] Speaker 7: God worked it out in the end, He figured out [2:59:40] Speaker 7: a way to make it work. [2:59:42] Speaker 6: But he didn't. [2:59:42] Speaker 1: What he should have done is just made sure the [2:59:45] Speaker 1: right word got in there, or the right prophet got [2:59:47] Speaker 1: in there. The wrong prophet got in there because Matthew [2:59:49] Speaker 1: made his mistake and there's lots of mistakes in the Bible. [2:59:54] Speaker 7: Well it couldn't. Some scholars believe that this is that [2:59:57] Speaker 7: he's quoting, that he's kind of combining the two together [2:59:59] Speaker 7: on to make a point. [3:00:01] Speaker 2: I don't think he is. I don't. [3:00:03] Speaker 1: I've heard the argument that he's doing Midrash. I don't [3:00:06] Speaker 1: agree with it. I don't think he's doing Midrash. I [3:00:08] Speaker 1: think he's being a bonehead, and I think he's trying [3:00:11] Speaker 1: to do some like sideways typology by combining Zachariah and Jeremiah. [3:00:17] Speaker 1: But he doesn't do a good job because, as it [3:00:19] Speaker 1: turns out, neither Zachariah nor Jeremiah say everything he says [3:00:23] Speaker 1: in that part of the passage, So it's he's he's [3:00:27] Speaker 1: just conflating stuff. Probably because Matthew was writing without the [3:00:30] Speaker 1: actual manuscripts in front of him. He was probably writing [3:00:34] Speaker 1: with like a snippet or either from memory or he [3:00:38] Speaker 1: asked somebody what was in it and they told him wrong. [3:00:41] Speaker 2: Like he just he goofed. [3:00:43] Speaker 1: But Creed, I want to demonstrate something real quick. The [3:00:47] Speaker 1: Bible's just not coherent on what it teaches. What what [3:00:50] Speaker 1: does a person have to do to go to heaven? [3:00:53] Speaker 7: Okay, so they asked to heal the gospel. They need [3:00:57] Speaker 7: to retent to their sins. They baptize, that's it, yeah, [3:01:03] Speaker 7: and then continue to live a godly life. And when [3:01:05] Speaker 7: you know when they will die and go to Handland. [3:01:07] Speaker 1: Well no, no, if you have to live a godly life, [3:01:09] Speaker 1: that then the means is not by faith alone, because [3:01:11] Speaker 1: in Ephesians too says for by grace you have been [3:01:13] Speaker 1: saved through faith. And this is not your own doing. [3:01:17] Speaker 1: It's the gift of God, not the result of works, [3:01:19] Speaker 1: so that no one may boast. So God knows you're [3:01:22] Speaker 1: going to sin. You shouldn't have to live a sinless [3:01:25] Speaker 1: life to still get in the pearly gates. [3:01:28] Speaker 7: Right, Well, you don't really have to have the sinless [3:01:31] Speaker 7: life you just now now you can do up. You [3:01:35] Speaker 7: can go to God and say, yaty please forget me, [3:01:37] Speaker 7: for that's just done. Is wrong? I end up. You're [3:01:39] Speaker 7: ju just across the down across like you can, crady [3:01:41] Speaker 7: God and you'll forgive you. Now you need, yes, the [3:01:46] Speaker 7: new testing. [3:01:46] Speaker 1: That you do none of the commands of Moses. [3:01:50] Speaker 7: No, because Paul says it was a silent guardian. Is [3:01:52] Speaker 7: it just not really needed anymore? It was just sort [3:01:55] Speaker 7: of a nearer. [3:01:56] Speaker 1: But Jesus said otherwise. He said, someone came to him [3:01:58] Speaker 1: and said, teacher, what good deed must I do to [3:02:02] Speaker 1: have eternal life? And he said to him, why do [3:02:04] Speaker 1: you ask me about what is good? There is no [3:02:06] Speaker 1: one who is good, or there is one who is good. [3:02:10] Speaker 1: If you wish to enter into life, keep the commitments. [3:02:15] Speaker 1: So maybe you should keep the commitments, yes, so that [3:02:19] Speaker 1: you didn't taken from Moses. And during this guy's time [3:02:22] Speaker 1: that we would have been on, he would have been [3:02:23] Speaker 1: under the old law. Jesus Christ, we died. [3:02:25] Speaker 2: We don't know if he was Jewishes is. [3:02:30] Speaker 7: Implied because Jesus sins to believe that he's under the follows. [3:02:33] Speaker 7: Those canandans what. [3:02:34] Speaker 1: He could be aposelytite, He could be a god fear [3:02:37] Speaker 1: he could be a Jew. We don't know. What we [3:02:39] Speaker 1: do know is that this man was instructed to follow [3:02:43] Speaker 1: the commandments? [3:02:43] Speaker 6: Right, Yes? [3:02:46] Speaker 1: Okay? So God, does God want you to follow the [3:02:48] Speaker 1: commandments or not? [3:02:51] Speaker 6: Yes? [3:02:51] Speaker 7: And is it clear quick that you're supposed to follow? [3:02:53] Speaker 7: And the testing that talks a lot about the. [3:02:57] Speaker 1: Christian well, he clearly referring to the commandments of here [3:03:01] Speaker 1: and then if even gets worse if you go to [3:03:03] Speaker 1: Matthew says, not everyone who says to me Lord the [3:03:05] Speaker 1: Lord will enter the Kingdom of heaven, but only the [3:03:07] Speaker 1: one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Well, [3:03:10] Speaker 1: that's doing something, He's saying. If you don't do what [3:03:14] Speaker 1: God tells you, you won't actually enter heaven. That's works. [3:03:18] Speaker 1: That means Paul's wrong. [3:03:21] Speaker 7: Well it's it's so here, here's the way, here's the [3:03:24] Speaker 7: way i'll here's the way I do. It is that [3:03:26] Speaker 7: I think that those sides are kind of into correct [3:03:29] Speaker 7: to doctor dervitation of face and works. I think think [3:03:31] Speaker 7: they go hand in hand like yes, nothing you can [3:03:34] Speaker 7: do can say to you, but after you are that [3:03:37] Speaker 7: tis ay, are expected to live the way God wants [3:03:39] Speaker 7: you to live. So there is someone works involved. [3:03:43] Speaker 1: Okay, so you do have to do works in order [3:03:45] Speaker 1: to go to heaven. [3:03:47] Speaker 7: Yes, is dead. [3:03:48] Speaker 1: So the so Paul was wrong then, because Paul says, [3:03:53] Speaker 1: not at all. It's just by grace. You have been [3:03:54] Speaker 1: saved through faith. This is not of your own doing, [3:03:57] Speaker 1: but a gift of God, not the result of works. [3:04:01] Speaker 7: Yes, yes, the original state and even allowed to be [3:04:05] Speaker 7: saved so that God godly life is from God. [3:04:08] Speaker 1: You didn't earn that, right, But if you don't do [3:04:11] Speaker 1: what God tells you, then you have to do works [3:04:14] Speaker 1: to get to heaven. Yes, which means Paul wrong. [3:04:22] Speaker 7: I know, But Paul office other times were tossed about [3:04:24] Speaker 7: things that you must do. [3:04:26] Speaker 1: I know he does. One Corinthians, chapter six, verse nine. [3:04:29] Speaker 1: He says, if you commit these particular sins, you won't [3:04:32] Speaker 1: go to heaven. Right, So if you still have to [3:04:35] Speaker 1: not sin, you still have to follow the commandments, you [3:04:38] Speaker 1: still have to do what God tells you to do. [3:04:41] Speaker 1: Then that it's not faith alone that gets you to heaven. [3:04:46] Speaker 7: Oh yeah, yea, it's safe alone. [3:04:49] Speaker 2: Paul wrong. [3:04:50] Speaker 7: Life is more than well, He's not wrong, He's just [3:04:53] Speaker 7: getting a piece of the puzzles could never like a [3:04:55] Speaker 7: puzzer still together, he says, not si context not the [3:04:59] Speaker 7: result of work. The baptism is not a work. [3:05:03] Speaker 1: Stir and say anything about baptism. I said, following the [3:05:06] Speaker 1: commandments and doing what God commands you to do, those [3:05:10] Speaker 1: would be works. But he's saying salvation is not the [3:05:14] Speaker 1: result of works, which means those works are useless. [3:05:18] Speaker 7: It is doing this is that ill tr it as [3:05:21] Speaker 7: slightly as possible is that whenever you were born, you [3:05:24] Speaker 7: were I look think called the edge accountability. And you're [3:05:26] Speaker 7: born you're not avertally sinful. Then you get older and [3:05:29] Speaker 7: you choose, like to say it thirteen or fourteen you said, [3:05:31] Speaker 7: as a example, you start to have more sinful urges. [3:05:34] Speaker 7: You become more accountable, and you're aware of what you're doing. [3:05:36] Speaker 7: So you're in a state of disarray and that now [3:05:39] Speaker 7: you need to save. You're to come to help you. [3:05:42] Speaker 7: And now God offered you the gifts of baptism. So [3:05:44] Speaker 7: when you get baptized to the water, says Jesus, or [3:05:47] Speaker 7: that varies Jesus and resurrected, you. [3:05:50] Speaker 5: Are now saved. [3:05:51] Speaker 7: And then now you''re safe. You need to go on [3:05:52] Speaker 7: and lives the God, the lives you're supposed to live. [3:05:54] Speaker 7: You can lose your salvation. [3:05:55] Speaker 1: It's no we agree if you lose your salvation. The [3:05:59] Speaker 1: question is are works required to get into heaven? And [3:06:02] Speaker 1: it sounds like you agree with James and Jesus that [3:06:06] Speaker 1: works are required to get into heaven. In fact, Jesus [3:06:09] Speaker 1: family said unless your righteousy exceeds out of the pharisees [3:06:13] Speaker 1: like you, you can't get in. But that being said, [3:06:16] Speaker 1: That just means that Paul is wrong. Paul clearly taught [3:06:20] Speaker 1: grace and faith alone. [3:06:24] Speaker 7: All talking about salvation. You don't earne salvation for the [3:06:26] Speaker 7: work as yours. [3:06:28] Speaker 2: What is your salvation is. [3:06:32] Speaker 7: It's it's like your soul, your salting saved from the [3:06:34] Speaker 7: fire to hotel as the English or hes. [3:06:37] Speaker 1: Okay, if it's not by works, if it's if it's [3:06:41] Speaker 1: nothing you can do as a work to get there, [3:06:43] Speaker 1: then that would be faith alone. [3:06:46] Speaker 2: Yes, the first part is faith alone. The second part [3:06:48] Speaker 2: involves doing the works. [3:06:50] Speaker 1: No, no faith alone. Say that again. Faith alone means [3:06:55] Speaker 1: you only need faith. [3:06:59] Speaker 7: Yes, it's the first part of the sequences that are [3:07:02] Speaker 7: involved being said. Yes, the first part is having faith. [3:07:05] Speaker 7: Being dad ties take a part of living in godly life. [3:07:08] Speaker 1: Just try this again, really slowly. Degree the words faith [3:07:13] Speaker 1: alone means there's only one thing, and that thing is faith. [3:07:19] Speaker 1: If I said the only thing you need to give [3:07:22] Speaker 1: me for me to fix your car is money alone, [3:07:26] Speaker 1: I will alone only take money. That means I don't [3:07:29] Speaker 1: give a shit if you bring me a donkey or [3:07:31] Speaker 1: a horse or a gift. I only care about you [3:07:34] Speaker 1: giving me that money. When Paul says it's only by faith, alone. [3:07:40] Speaker 1: What that means is that it doesn't matter what your [3:07:42] Speaker 1: works are, it's faith alone. [3:07:46] Speaker 7: Okay, I get what you were saying. I understood. I [3:07:48] Speaker 7: put your times on theth but do not do this [3:07:50] Speaker 7: lor nuance to how you're saved. Then just do works. [3:07:53] Speaker 7: You don't have faith. [3:07:54] Speaker 2: No, Paul's just wrong, That's what I'm saying. [3:07:58] Speaker 3: But Paul, that Paul seems. [3:08:00] Speaker 7: So the other you know, other apostles, and Paul had [3:08:03] Speaker 7: to Freae similar viewpoint on Jesus Christ. Then ke inclined [3:08:07] Speaker 7: to know people that saw the resurrection shouldn't occur in [3:08:09] Speaker 7: First Quentians eleven. [3:08:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, but none of the first Qunthians fifteen. You mean, [3:08:13] Speaker 1: but none of that's actually relevant. The question we're trying [3:08:16] Speaker 1: to answer is why Paul is contradicting himself. [3:08:21] Speaker 7: Is he contradictoring himself or is are we just not [3:08:24] Speaker 7: looking at it at all? [3:08:24] Speaker 1: He's contradicting Jesus and himself because he if he's saying [3:08:27] Speaker 1: it's by faith alone. And then later he comes by [3:08:30] Speaker 1: and says, do you not know that those who do X, [3:08:34] Speaker 1: Y and Z will not inherit the kingdom of God? [3:08:36] Speaker 1: Well that works. Now, now you're back in works, So [3:08:41] Speaker 1: he contradded to himself. [3:08:44] Speaker 7: So you think that not doing certain things is a work? [3:08:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, obeying the law, like not breaking God's [3:08:55] Speaker 1: commandments is a work. [3:08:56] Speaker 2: Yeah. [3:09:00] Speaker 7: And I'm not saying you're totally wrong. It's just I [3:09:02] Speaker 7: feel like you're you're It's like you're taking one side [3:09:05] Speaker 7: of the birthday cake and not on the other side. [3:09:07] Speaker 7: You're just like you're trying to have it both like [3:09:11] Speaker 7: you can't have it both ways. [3:09:12] Speaker 2: Are obeying for God's laws of work? [3:09:16] Speaker 3: Yes, of course. [3:09:18] Speaker 2: Yeah. [3:09:18] Speaker 1: And Paul is saying if you disobey God, then you [3:09:21] Speaker 1: don't get to go into heaven, which means you must [3:09:23] Speaker 1: obey God to get to heaven, which means you're doing [3:09:25] Speaker 1: the work. [3:09:28] Speaker 7: Well, yeah, you're doing a work. But how is that contradictory? [3:09:31] Speaker 7: I mean, like Paul follows it up later, is he's [3:09:33] Speaker 7: adding on to what he's saying. [3:09:35] Speaker 1: No, he's just contradicting himself. He doesn't realize it. If [3:09:40] Speaker 1: he says, if he says, you have to follow these [3:09:43] Speaker 1: commands or you can't get to heaven, and then earlier [3:09:46] Speaker 1: he says that these are your salvation is not the [3:09:49] Speaker 1: result of works, then neither one. He doesn't know how [3:09:52] Speaker 1: words work, which I would believe, or he doesn't realize [3:09:54] Speaker 1: that he's created a contradiction. [3:09:58] Speaker 7: If the Bible is very consistent on a lot of saying, [3:10:00] Speaker 7: especially on the treatment as women. [3:10:02] Speaker 2: There the woman is very. [3:10:02] Speaker 7: Consistent for the Bible. [3:10:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, very bad. [3:10:06] Speaker 1: It's not, sir, it's horrible, creed. It literally says like, [3:10:11] Speaker 1: if you're a priest and your your daughter is sleeping around, [3:10:15] Speaker 1: you have to burn her alive. Can you show me [3:10:18] Speaker 1: the passage where it says, if you're a priest and [3:10:20] Speaker 1: your son is sleeping around, you have to burn him alive. No, [3:10:25] Speaker 1: but why only women, creed? Why only women? Why do [3:10:29] Speaker 1: only they get burnt alive? [3:10:33] Speaker 7: Not just not just a woman in the part you know, [3:10:35] Speaker 7: and those people are caught adultery and then a stone tune. [3:10:40] Speaker 1: No, why if a young woman who is the daughter [3:10:45] Speaker 1: of a priest is not a virgin and same thing [3:10:49] Speaker 1: about adultery. If she's not a virgin, right, she gets [3:10:53] Speaker 1: burned alive. How come men don't get the same treatment. [3:10:58] Speaker 7: It says most of the most men, one of those [3:11:00] Speaker 7: not prostitutes. The prostitute stackination. [3:11:03] Speaker 1: I didn't say anything about prostitutes, and we do find [3:11:05] Speaker 1: that the Old Testament mentions male temple prostitutes the same [3:11:08] Speaker 1: way as females refer to the kiddo kiddoshah and kitoshim. [3:11:18] Speaker 7: Sord. But so your point about to your point about [3:11:21] Speaker 7: like yeah, yeah, it was a heart, it was under [3:11:23] Speaker 7: the old law too, Like the new law is super [3:11:26] Speaker 7: clear of how woman with respects like Ephesian five. [3:11:30] Speaker 1: No, no, we're talking about the behavior of the God, [3:11:32] Speaker 1: which means it doesn't matter if it's the Old Testament [3:11:34] Speaker 1: or the New Testament. The behavior of the God of [3:11:36] Speaker 1: the Bible treats women completely different to men, entirely different. [3:11:41] Speaker 1: In fact, numbers chapter thirty, women aren't even allowed to [3:11:44] Speaker 1: stick through their contracts. In fact, I read uh. [3:11:48] Speaker 2: Number thirty with. [3:11:49] Speaker 1: Your real quick says in terms of making a vow, [3:11:54] Speaker 1: when a man makes a vow to the Lord and [3:11:56] Speaker 1: as fear as an oath to bind himself by a pledge, [3:11:58] Speaker 1: he shall not break his words. Now, Because when a [3:12:01] Speaker 1: woman makes a vow to the Lord or binds herself [3:12:04] Speaker 1: by a pledge while within her father's house in her youth, [3:12:07] Speaker 1: and her father hears of the vow or the pledge [3:12:09] Speaker 1: by which she has bound herself, and says nothing to her, [3:12:12] Speaker 1: then all of her vowels shall stand, and any pledge [3:12:15] Speaker 1: which is made, I'm sorry, any pledge by which she [3:12:18] Speaker 1: has bound herself shall stand. But if her father over [3:12:20] Speaker 1: rules her at the time that he hears of it, [3:12:24] Speaker 1: no vow of hers and no pledge by which she [3:12:26] Speaker 1: has bound herself shall stand. So her dad can just [3:12:29] Speaker 1: overrule her vow. Now that's it gets worse, because now [3:12:31] Speaker 1: if she gets married, says, if she marries while obligated [3:12:35] Speaker 1: by her vows or any thoughtless utterance of her lips [3:12:37] Speaker 1: by which she has bound herself, and her husband hears [3:12:40] Speaker 1: of it, so on and so forth, so her husband [3:12:42] Speaker 1: can be like, oh shit, my wife made a vow. [3:12:44] Speaker 1: I don't like that. Let me nullify it. So women [3:12:47] Speaker 1: are not equal to men in the Bible. [3:12:52] Speaker 7: It's a spiritual china to man, sir. It's first Corinthians [3:12:55] Speaker 7: to Learne talks about the spiritual Chinican man. [3:12:57] Speaker 5: No no, no, no, no, God na. [3:12:59] Speaker 1: Create a dress us. What I just read, don't jump [3:13:02] Speaker 1: to another verse address numbers thirty. Why does God not [3:13:09] Speaker 1: allow women? Why does God not allow women to have [3:13:13] Speaker 1: the same autonomous right of making a vow as men have? [3:13:20] Speaker 7: Well, let's just chouse the men in the inch into row, [3:13:23] Speaker 7: what heads to the household and everything that was going [3:13:26] Speaker 7: on households, how to go for them first? And so [3:13:28] Speaker 7: since most wom lived under their father's roosts, he had [3:13:31] Speaker 7: the right to nullify. [3:13:33] Speaker 1: That was the thing is I know they had the right. [3:13:35] Speaker 1: I'm asking how that it's equal treatment. [3:13:39] Speaker 7: Because he is protecting the one he's taking care of. [3:13:41] Speaker 1: Protecting her from women from from making sure she doesn't [3:13:45] Speaker 1: have her own desires met. Maybe she needed to make [3:13:48] Speaker 1: that vow for something. Maybe she pledged something to God. [3:13:51] Speaker 1: Maybe she pledged a tenth of her yarn earnings to God. [3:13:57] Speaker 7: Yes, dig in that society, women of like most likely [3:14:00] Speaker 7: less educated, and then they didn't have the same resources. [3:14:04] Speaker 1: First of all, the men were educated either, None of [3:14:05] Speaker 1: these people were educated. But women certainly could make a vow. [3:14:09] Speaker 1: Vow could be literally anything. You could vow to give [3:14:13] Speaker 1: to give your grain to your neighbor next year because [3:14:16] Speaker 1: your neighbor's field got burned down and you felt bad [3:14:18] Speaker 1: for them. You could vow anything. [3:14:23] Speaker 7: Yes, but you know it's your parents are for a reason, [3:14:26] Speaker 7: like like and your husband too. Like if they're one [3:14:28] Speaker 7: your your husband's also there for a reason. [3:14:29] Speaker 2: There, That's what I'm asking you there. [3:14:31] Speaker 1: Why why is a husband allowed to just go to [3:14:33] Speaker 1: a woman that he's married to and like your vow [3:14:35] Speaker 1: is meaningless, I'm ripping it up. [3:14:37] Speaker 7: Why Well, I was trying to answer this with a [3:14:40] Speaker 7: new test and that puts us into context as to [3:14:42] Speaker 7: why this is the case. And see just talked about [3:14:45] Speaker 7: how you know in there that the husband is the [3:14:47] Speaker 7: head of the wife. Christis side of the church, so [3:14:49] Speaker 7: he's the leader, and then are of the leaders in [3:14:51] Speaker 7: the leadership roles, So they might be choice, yes. [3:14:53] Speaker 1: Because they're not equal creed. I've said it ten times. [3:14:56] Speaker 1: They're not equal partners. Women, you do not get the [3:15:00] Speaker 1: same treatment as men. God does not think women are [3:15:03] Speaker 1: equal to men, so. [3:15:07] Speaker 7: He never says that. He never says that, though he does. [3:15:10] Speaker 1: He literally says it in like chapter seventeen of Leviticus, [3:15:15] Speaker 1: when you're when you're redeeming human beings, the redemption rate [3:15:19] Speaker 1: for a woman is less than that of a man, [3:15:22] Speaker 1: says that, Yeah, I'll find it for you. Hold on. [3:15:27] Speaker 1: I think it's a Leviticus chapter seventeen. I could be wrong, [3:15:30] Speaker 1: but I think I think I have it. Blah blah, [3:15:37] Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah. Nope, not seventeen, it was [3:15:41] Speaker 1: twenty seven. I apologize my I had the seven right, [3:15:44] Speaker 1: but I had the wrong incorrect. So Leviticus twenty seven, [3:15:50] Speaker 1: so speaking to speak to the Israelites and say to [3:15:52] Speaker 1: them when a person makes an explicit bow to the [3:15:54] Speaker 1: Lord concerning the equivalent for a human being, the equivalent [3:15:58] Speaker 1: for a male shall be from twenty to sixty years [3:16:02] Speaker 1: of age, the equivalent shall be fifty shekels of silver [3:16:06] Speaker 1: by the sanctuary shekel. If the person is a female, [3:16:10] Speaker 1: the equivalent is thirty shekels. So God literally places the [3:16:14] Speaker 1: value in shekels on men and women. Men are worth [3:16:17] Speaker 1: fifty shekels and women are worth thirty. [3:16:21] Speaker 2: Yeah. [3:16:21] Speaker 7: The things that the cultural content of this time who [3:16:23] Speaker 7: are most likely to be favored females are men. The [3:16:26] Speaker 7: females are in men. [3:16:27] Speaker 2: Yeah. [3:16:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a command from God. Culture is irrelevant. [3:16:32] Speaker 7: God is using his proleence to go for the cultures [3:16:35] Speaker 7: that were in more patriarchal and whine when they get [3:16:37] Speaker 7: things work. [3:16:38] Speaker 2: Why would God have to bend to the patriarchy. [3:16:43] Speaker 7: I'm sorry and sort of jeffy because he doesn't pick, [3:16:46] Speaker 7: because he means a man, of course, like he wants [3:16:48] Speaker 7: to look out for his daughters like any father. [3:16:50] Speaker 1: Would, but he's not. He explicitly gives you the opposite. [3:16:54] Speaker 1: He explicitly tells you that women aren't the same value. [3:16:57] Speaker 1: In Exus twenty one, he explicitly tells you that their [3:17:01] Speaker 1: slave conditions aren't even the same. A Hebrew male as [3:17:04] Speaker 1: a slave for six years ago free in the seventh. [3:17:06] Speaker 1: A Hebrew woman is a slave for life. She can [3:17:09] Speaker 1: just be sold as a concubine or a slave for life. [3:17:11] Speaker 1: That's it. [3:17:12] Speaker 7: She's done, So it takes the sort of slaves for life. [3:17:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a Exus twenty one says, when a man [3:17:23] Speaker 1: sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go [3:17:25] Speaker 1: out as the male slaves do. If she does not [3:17:28] Speaker 1: please her master, who designated her for himself, then he [3:17:32] Speaker 1: shall let her be redeemed. So she's permanent property of [3:17:35] Speaker 1: the master who buys her, and he can do anything [3:17:38] Speaker 1: he wants with her. He can make her a concubine, [3:17:40] Speaker 1: he can make her a wife to one of his sons, [3:17:44] Speaker 1: and he can even he could even just get rid [3:17:46] Speaker 1: of her. [3:17:49] Speaker 7: She can then he can make her a concubine and [3:17:51] Speaker 7: a wise to one of his sons. Would you say, [3:17:54] Speaker 7: is a woman sent all? Can sent? [3:17:56] Speaker 6: It? [3:17:56] Speaker 5: All asked? [3:17:56] Speaker 7: In the passage? [3:17:57] Speaker 1: None? None? Is he designated her? She's not given the option. [3:18:04] Speaker 1: She didn't ask to be sold off. Do you think [3:18:07] Speaker 1: a young woman is going to ask to be sold [3:18:10] Speaker 1: off as a slave? [3:18:14] Speaker 7: No, but Sava, these things did happen back in that culture. [3:18:18] Speaker 2: I know, but it didn't have to. These are commands [3:18:20] Speaker 2: of God. [3:18:24] Speaker 7: God can end, and God can end. Then isn't there [3:18:27] Speaker 7: another past that says that a nan can sell his daughter? [3:18:30] Speaker 2: We just read it. [3:18:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, when a man sells his daughter as a slave, [3:18:32] Speaker 1: she shall not go out as the male slaves do. [3:18:34] Speaker 1: It sounds a whole lot like the God is made [3:18:37] Speaker 1: up by man rather than man made by God. [3:18:43] Speaker 7: You know, justin I lose another coming back on here. [3:18:46] Speaker 7: I'm sorry, I'm not going to send this stuff anymore. [3:18:49] Speaker 1: Care do you say that but then you come back? [3:18:51] Speaker 2: Yeah? [3:18:52] Speaker 7: Well I'm done. I'm sorry for coming on to wasting [3:18:54] Speaker 7: your time. [3:18:54] Speaker 1: All right, love you body, come back next week. Okay, Okay, [3:18:58] Speaker 1: stop them say that to me. [3:18:59] Speaker 7: How I got it here? [3:19:00] Speaker 2: I gotcha. [3:19:04] Speaker 1: He's done this a couple of times where he he [3:19:06] Speaker 1: he gets to the end of an argument and it [3:19:08] Speaker 1: seems like I've convinced him, but then he comes back [3:19:12] Speaker 1: next week with new arguments. It's really weird. I don't know, [3:19:16] Speaker 1: I don't know what's happening. But anyways, he's always nice. [3:19:18] Speaker 1: He's a nice guy, you know what I mean. Let [3:19:20] Speaker 1: me grab a couple of super chests. We'll get our [3:19:22] Speaker 1: next guest. And here Josha's guest has been driven straight [3:19:24] Speaker 1: into the Oh yeah, the prior guest, Creed's not bad. [3:19:29] Speaker 1: We've listened. You guys been around long enough. You know [3:19:31] Speaker 1: that Creed is a He's a nice, nice young man. [3:19:36] Speaker 1: But the prior guest before Max says the great backshot argument. [3:19:42] Speaker 2: I know. [3:19:46] Speaker 1: I got that from Ian. I love that that rhetorical [3:19:49] Speaker 1: saying it's such a good one. And Karako karaka kakar [3:19:54] Speaker 1: Roto says, that's the guy who called your son, oh [3:19:58] Speaker 1: and our. [3:20:00] Speaker 2: I think you're right. [3:20:01] Speaker 1: Actually, I think that is the guy if I remember correctly, [3:20:04] Speaker 1: cocker Rotum, that was the guy last time we talked. [3:20:07] Speaker 1: He literally blew a gasket after he was getting cooked [3:20:11] Speaker 1: and referred to my son as a retard because he's autistic. [3:20:14] Speaker 1: That I'm pretty sure that's the same guy. Actually, he [3:20:18] Speaker 1: was getting cooked hard that conversation. I'm I'm surprised that [3:20:22] Speaker 1: they keep coming back. It's weird to me that they [3:20:24] Speaker 1: keep returning. Ross says, if memory and emotion are or [3:20:28] Speaker 1: have physical states, then doesn't that mean Qualia is total [3:20:31] Speaker 1: bs or am I mistaken? Ross? [3:20:33] Speaker 2: That is kind of what I'm saying. [3:20:35] Speaker 1: I think I don't think Qualia exists as a transcendental entity. [3:20:41] Speaker 1: I think Qualia is just a physical product of the [3:20:44] Speaker 1: mind and that no more. Kenna says, have you ever [3:20:48] Speaker 1: thought of using moderators? I actually have a bunch of them, [3:20:51] Speaker 1: But I think you mean during the debate that play [3:20:54] Speaker 1: back they play back guests when the backtrack on what [3:20:57] Speaker 1: they said rock hard for some good faith to base today. So, Kenneth, [3:21:01] Speaker 1: here's the fun part. The software I'm using does actually [3:21:04] Speaker 1: allow me to play it back. [3:21:06] Speaker 2: I don't know how to use it yet. [3:21:07] Speaker 1: I know it exists, I know I. [3:21:09] Speaker 2: Could do it, but I don't know how to make [3:21:12] Speaker 2: that a reality. [3:21:12] Speaker 1: Unfortunately, I apologize, but eventually I'll figure it out. Eventually [3:21:16] Speaker 1: I'll get that work. And Kyle says, well, it goes [3:21:19] Speaker 1: sort of like this. It says that Israel is a [3:21:22] Speaker 1: combination of isis rot l with different gods in each name. [3:21:28] Speaker 1: Hope that makes sense. Okay, so I see what you're saying. [3:21:30] Speaker 1: It's a play on words. The problem is isis is [3:21:34] Speaker 1: from a different from a different language, and I'm pretty [3:21:36] Speaker 1: sure it's an abbreviation and it doesn't mean the same thing. [3:21:40] Speaker 1: It just happens to be that isis is different. But [3:21:44] Speaker 1: that being said, it's an interesting argument. I just I [3:21:49] Speaker 1: don't think it's a good one. I don't know where [3:21:51] Speaker 1: you heard that from. But also, you know, fuck isis Golach. [3:21:56] Speaker 1: Thank you for the super chet friend, it says rock [3:21:58] Speaker 1: hard for Doug. The psycho theory needs to be recertified. [3:22:02] Speaker 1: What a child? Can you imagine getting therapy advice from him? [3:22:05] Speaker 2: I can't. [3:22:06] Speaker 1: That's step of guy that giving you therapy advice, Like [3:22:09] Speaker 1: you're trying to like get off heroin or something, and [3:22:12] Speaker 1: he's like, just stop doing it, just stop doing it. [3:22:14] Speaker 2: Why are you doing it? [3:22:14] Speaker 1: Just stop doing it? Okay, Yeah, I never thought about that. Yeah, [3:22:17] Speaker 1: thanks for that and bouncing. Kyl says lem Tree worked [3:22:22] Speaker 1: with the Pope would not make religious or philosophical interpretations [3:22:26] Speaker 1: of matters concerning physical cosmology. So that's my understanding of [3:22:29] Speaker 1: le Maitree as well, is that he did like he [3:22:33] Speaker 1: did hold this view of the cosmos, but he didn't [3:22:37] Speaker 1: state anything as about it as it relates to theology. [3:22:41] Speaker 1: And Kyle says, everyone justin is having a Q and [3:22:43] Speaker 1: A this Tuesday, let's perplex him with questions. Brady Doug Actually, [3:22:47] Speaker 1: I like the Q and A because a lot of [3:22:49] Speaker 1: times I get questions that are so good I have [3:22:52] Speaker 1: to go look up in my resources answers. I don't [3:22:55] Speaker 1: always know the answers. They're a lot of fun. Russell, [3:22:57] Speaker 1: my friend, welcome back. W for the six one six [3:22:59] Speaker 1: is could you say the odds are against us? It's [3:23:03] Speaker 1: estimated ninety nine point nine percent of all species that [3:23:05] Speaker 1: have existed are extinct. We've had at least five mass [3:23:08] Speaker 1: extinction events. I think that's about right. That's the numbers [3:23:12] Speaker 1: I've heard. I don't know how many mass extinctions, but [3:23:14] Speaker 1: we had a lot. The odds are against us. The [3:23:16] Speaker 1: fact that we're surviving just shows how resilient we are, [3:23:20] Speaker 1: not that there's a miracle. And Josh Say's chaos and [3:23:22] Speaker 1: life are not mutually exclusive. Life is pretty chaotic. Last [3:23:26] Speaker 1: I checked it, is it's super chaotic. You can't tell [3:23:29] Speaker 1: me this earth is fine tuned. And Larry, my friend, [3:23:32] Speaker 1: thank you for gifting out five DZ Debate memberships, big [3:23:37] Speaker 1: w friend. I super appreciate that. And I said a word, [3:23:41] Speaker 1: and now my life is flagged on TikTok. Malcolm says, [3:23:44] Speaker 1: question from last week is there a scholarly support that [3:23:47] Speaker 1: the livitical priesthood where Charlatan's demanding food, meat flour in [3:23:51] Speaker 1: exchange for prophecy and support from God. I mean that [3:23:54] Speaker 1: seems to be the case of all ancient priesthoods, not [3:23:57] Speaker 1: just the levitical priesthood, you know what I mean? Is [3:24:01] Speaker 1: there support in the Bible for this? I don't know [3:24:03] Speaker 1: if that's the case. The closest you can get. [3:24:05] Speaker 2: To is like Bell and the Dragon. [3:24:07] Speaker 1: But if you just read the text, like the sacrificial texts, [3:24:10] Speaker 1: like they're telling you to do stuff that simply just [3:24:14] Speaker 1: only support the priesthood, you know what I mean. I [3:24:18] Speaker 1: mean it's a fair question, though, it really is. And [3:24:20] Speaker 1: f Dot says you nailed it. No way that that [3:24:24] Speaker 1: wasn't Dirden. I could never forget that insufferable voice in [3:24:28] Speaker 1: terrible talking points. Great work cooking them again. I think [3:24:31] Speaker 1: if dot and the reason why he didn't come back [3:24:33] Speaker 1: is Dirden is because he didn't want to get cooked [3:24:35] Speaker 1: on his main account. Saint Barnabas says, was the depression [3:24:39] Speaker 1: in the ground created for the puddle or the water [3:24:42] Speaker 1: gather there because of physics. Obviously physic part of his [3:24:45] Speaker 1: I love the puddle analogy, though I've used it. [3:24:48] Speaker 2: Tons of times. [3:24:49] Speaker 1: And Carlos, my good friend, thank you for sending out [3:24:52] Speaker 1: ten Deconstruction Zone gifted memberships. I really appreciate it. Friends. [3:24:56] Speaker 1: The memberships are really the backbone of the channel. And [3:24:59] Speaker 1: GP he says for the color Max, you're not an idiot. [3:25:01] Speaker 2: I agree, Max is not an idiot. [3:25:03] Speaker 1: We're all bozos in this bus. And good quote for [3:25:06] Speaker 1: phil Bros. To meditate on a fool believes himself to [3:25:09] Speaker 1: be wise. A wise man knows himself to be a fool. [3:25:12] Speaker 1: It's actually a good quote. It kind of taps into [3:25:14] Speaker 1: the Dunning Kruger effect. It reminds me a little bit [3:25:17] Speaker 1: of what Plato records from Socrates in the Apology. In [3:25:24] Speaker 1: the Apology by Plato, Socrates is essentially saying that he's [3:25:28] Speaker 1: trying to find out who is wiser than him because [3:25:31] Speaker 1: a god he heard from a god that in fact, [3:25:38] Speaker 1: oh okay, he sorry, I read a message he heard [3:25:40] Speaker 1: from God that he was the wisest man alive, and [3:25:43] Speaker 1: he didn't believe it. So now he goes around talking [3:25:45] Speaker 1: to people to figure out if he really is the [3:25:47] Speaker 1: wisest man. He says, what I've learned is that the [3:25:50] Speaker 1: people that claim to be without wisdom are among the wisest, [3:25:54] Speaker 1: and the people who claim to be wise are among [3:25:57] Speaker 1: the least wise, which seems to be just an age [3:26:01] Speaker 1: old fact. Quota says, it's vacation time and I can't [3:26:06] Speaker 1: watch live. I'm hungry. Did I miss any pretzels? You [3:26:09] Speaker 1: certainly did, Koto, you definitely missed a couple of pretzels. [3:26:12] Speaker 2: But don't worry. [3:26:13] Speaker 1: You can play it back. Everything will be able to [3:26:16] Speaker 1: be played back. El Tine, thank you so much for [3:26:18] Speaker 1: the twenty hour superchat. This goes to son Sono. Ties [3:26:22] Speaker 1: finally got to the right place. Great job. At least [3:26:26] Speaker 1: he played. He paid ties somewhere that matters. I'm gonna [3:26:29] Speaker 1: grab two more. Sonis good to see you all the [3:26:32] Speaker 1: way from Argentina. Thank you for the superchat. My friend [3:26:35] Speaker 1: says Hi justin. Is there any thought experiment where every [3:26:37] Speaker 1: creature are herbivores, will the suffering diminish. I don't know [3:26:43] Speaker 1: if that's the case, because I'm thinking if there's nothing, [3:26:48] Speaker 1: but herbivores are still going to fight over the resources, right, So, [3:26:52] Speaker 1: as long as you're dependent on resources, I think there's [3:26:55] Speaker 1: going to be fighting a Narcissa, my friend, great to [3:26:58] Speaker 1: see you. Thank you so much for the forty nine [3:27:00] Speaker 1: ninety nine dollars super jet. That's huge, my friend says, [3:27:02] Speaker 1: I just turned tuned in and I think you might [3:27:05] Speaker 1: have said something about destroying religion. Yeah. Actually, I'm so [3:27:10] Speaker 1: about that. Religion is destroying our ability to care for [3:27:13] Speaker 1: each other. I agree, Narcissa, so, and. [3:27:15] Speaker 2: That's the thing. [3:27:16] Speaker 1: Religion seems to be poisoning everything. And I know there [3:27:19] Speaker 1: are religions that are not so toxic, and we don't [3:27:23] Speaker 1: talk about them all that much. Actually, Narcissu's got a [3:27:25] Speaker 1: second one coming in. Thank you so much, Narcissa says, [3:27:28] Speaker 1: I wake up every day, I'm sorry every day morning [3:27:31] Speaker 1: and immediately worry about how dangerous these morons are. Thank [3:27:34] Speaker 1: you for doing this. Listen, I worry about the same things. [3:27:37] Speaker 1: Remember Christian nationalisms upon us like they're trying to get [3:27:41] Speaker 1: us Narcissa, so like we have to we have to [3:27:43] Speaker 1: defend ourselves. You know, this is something we gotta do. [3:27:46] Speaker 1: Let me grab our next guest. It looks like next [3:27:49] Speaker 1: to line is going to be Dave, And for some reason, [3:27:54] Speaker 1: Dave's got a drawing board or Microsoft Paint open. He's [3:28:00] Speaker 1: done a hell of a job in Microsoft Paint to [3:28:02] Speaker 1: make what he's made, though. I mean, I'm thoroughly impressed [3:28:05] Speaker 1: with what he's got going on? Dave? Can you hear me? [3:28:12] Speaker 6: Dave? [3:28:15] Speaker 1: Shit, I feel bad that you wasted all the time [3:28:17] Speaker 1: making the cool graphics. I see your mouse moving. [3:28:19] Speaker 2: It's almost like. [3:28:20] Speaker 1: You've got your audio turned off and you just can't [3:28:22] Speaker 1: hear me. That's unfortunate. Well, well, listen, Dave. The painting's awesome. [3:28:28] Speaker 1: Big w on the painting love It gonna go on [3:28:31] Speaker 1: to the next guest in r Q, which looks like [3:28:34] Speaker 1: it's going to be I can't read the words, Ti [3:28:39] Speaker 1: McGee smith, how are you doing? Time? [3:28:42] Speaker 2: Although a tie your micro's muted? There you go right now? [3:28:49] Speaker 6: Hi, Ti? [3:28:54] Speaker 1: I think Tie is trying. It says you have no [3:29:00] Speaker 1: microphone selected. [3:29:01] Speaker 2: Tie. [3:29:02] Speaker 1: When I go into your settings, you have to when [3:29:04] Speaker 1: you come into the box, you have to select the microphone. [3:29:09] Speaker 1: You can't tell it not to use a microphone. [3:29:10] Speaker 2: You have to select one on the way in. [3:29:18] Speaker 1: A right see if this works all right? It looks [3:29:20] Speaker 1: like you got a microphone attached now, although I can't [3:29:23] Speaker 1: hear you. Ty, uh drop, ty, go ahead and drop [3:29:30] Speaker 1: and coming back. I'm going to get a guest that [3:29:32] Speaker 1: looks like their equipment's working, and it looks like it's [3:29:36] Speaker 1: gonna be the lowest ranking Muslim. Shit, I don't hear [3:29:43] Speaker 1: lowest ranking either. [3:29:44] Speaker 2: This is weird. I we heard our prior guests. Anyone [3:29:49] Speaker 2: else hear them. I don't hear them. [3:29:53] Speaker 1: Anyone hear them. I can't hear a thing we heard Max. [3:29:59] Speaker 1: Max is up here here, so we know the system [3:30:03] Speaker 1: is working. No one can hear them. [3:30:04] Speaker 2: That's weird. [3:30:06] Speaker 1: Lowest ranking Muslim. It says you've got an iPhone. It [3:30:10] Speaker 1: should be working. I don't know why it's not here. [3:30:13] Speaker 3: You. [3:30:14] Speaker 2: Oh, it's your because your connection shoddy. [3:30:16] Speaker 1: That's why. [3:30:18] Speaker 6: Oh maybe i'm over here. Let me see if I [3:30:21] Speaker 6: can change my eyes. [3:30:22] Speaker 1: It's working right now. I think it's just kind of [3:30:24] Speaker 1: an in and out connection. Ope, now he's gone. [3:30:31] Speaker 2: That's the one thing. [3:30:32] Speaker 1: About using video ninja is if you come up and [3:30:34] Speaker 1: you got a bad connection, it just kind of it [3:30:38] Speaker 1: just kind of messes up. It doesn't really do what [3:30:40] Speaker 1: you wanted to. All Right, Let's try this again time. [3:30:45] Speaker 1: Oh really bad? [3:30:47] Speaker 6: All right? [3:30:49] Speaker 1: All right, sorry Ty, your connection is really bad. It's [3:30:51] Speaker 1: got a lot of feedback. All right, sorry, Ty, gotta [3:30:57] Speaker 1: we gotta drop that. Guys, if you got a really [3:30:59] Speaker 1: bad connection, I apologize. We can't take it. You're like, [3:31:02] Speaker 1: you have to have a good connection. Are Dave coming back? [3:31:04] Speaker 1: Let's see if Dave's can. [3:31:05] Speaker 2: Hear us this time? [3:31:06] Speaker 1: Dave? How you doing? No? Okay, sorry Dave. [3:31:13] Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna move on to the other queue. [3:31:16] Speaker 2: Then we're gonna go to I think the next one [3:31:19] Speaker 2: was Yoso. [3:31:24] Speaker 5: Hey, how going man? [3:31:26] Speaker 1: You'll say, are you at least. [3:31:29] Speaker 5: I am a I am over eighteen and I am [3:31:31] Speaker 5: a believer? Do I have to be religious? Or as [3:31:34] Speaker 5: long as I believe in God. [3:31:35] Speaker 2: You don't have to be religious? [3:31:36] Speaker 5: Yes? [3:31:37] Speaker 1: I said, you just got to believe. [3:31:39] Speaker 5: Okay, Okay, yeah, I do cool this for my first time. [3:31:42] Speaker 5: More here too. I just joined for hopefully a good conversation. [3:31:44] Speaker 1: Welcome in welcome in. Well, okay, so what kind of [3:31:48] Speaker 1: the God do. [3:31:48] Speaker 6: You believe in? [3:31:51] Speaker 5: I believe in I would say God as the source. [3:31:54] Speaker 5: I kind of ill sat kind of aligned with the [3:31:58] Speaker 5: way that Isaac Newton describe God, and I already aligned [3:32:01] Speaker 5: with it before I found his belief. But his belief [3:32:04] Speaker 5: kind of is the closest alignment to my belief. [3:32:07] Speaker 2: Isaac Newton was a Christian though. [3:32:10] Speaker 5: Yes, but he wasn't a Trinitarian. He didn't take the [3:32:13] Speaker 5: Bible as a history book. He took it as an [3:32:15] Speaker 5: alchemical book about transformation. [3:32:17] Speaker 1: Wrote a whole commentary on the Book of Daniel. [3:32:21] Speaker 5: Yes, but he was not a Trinitarian. [3:32:23] Speaker 1: I don't know if he was a Trinitarian, but he [3:32:25] Speaker 1: certainly believes in a traditional view of the Book of Daniel. [3:32:30] Speaker 5: Well, from my research, and you can pull this up [3:32:32] Speaker 5: now if you want to, Isaac Newton saw the Bible [3:32:36] Speaker 5: as a book of transformation. He viewed it from an [3:32:40] Speaker 5: alchemical standpoint. And I don't know if he took it [3:32:46] Speaker 5: as history as well, but I know he initially took [3:32:48] Speaker 5: it as understanding creation and the designer behind physics. [3:32:55] Speaker 1: I don't know if everything you're saying matches. So he [3:33:01] Speaker 1: was an alchemist. No one is questioning that. I don't [3:33:04] Speaker 1: think if he used the Bible as a book of alchemy. Now, [3:33:09] Speaker 1: I'm sure he might have found something in the Bible [3:33:11] Speaker 1: that led to some sort of alchemist idea. But my [3:33:15] Speaker 1: understanding and that here's got a pretty straightforward idea of [3:33:19] Speaker 1: the Bible. [3:33:21] Speaker 5: Are you Are you familiar with alchemy as well? [3:33:24] Speaker 3: No? [3:33:25] Speaker 1: I don't believe in alchohomy. [3:33:27] Speaker 5: That's fine. Well, I'll say the premise is transformation. And [3:33:31] Speaker 5: I know they there's something referred to as the Great Work, [3:33:34] Speaker 5: which is taking a lower material and elevating it or [3:33:37] Speaker 5: transcending it. And he describes the life of Jesus as [3:33:40] Speaker 5: that as a transformation. [3:33:43] Speaker 2: What is a transformation? [3:33:46] Speaker 5: The transformation is energy going from one form to another. [3:33:50] Speaker 1: Okay, so transformation is a process, not a thing. Yes, [3:33:56] Speaker 1: So Jesus is a process. [3:33:58] Speaker 5: Jesus went through. [3:33:59] Speaker 1: All try this again, Jesus. All right, I'm going to [3:34:05] Speaker 1: write it out. You're actually on TikTok, so you can [3:34:07] Speaker 1: see what I'm going to write. So premise number one [3:34:11] Speaker 1: was something about transformation. Can you repeat that again? Jesus [3:34:15] Speaker 1: is a transformation. [3:34:17] Speaker 3: Yeah. [3:34:17] Speaker 5: The story of Jesus is a story of transformation. Maybe [3:34:20] Speaker 5: I didn't say that clearly, but yeah. [3:34:22] Speaker 1: Okay, transformation, Okay, so gotcha? Okay, So Jesus wasn't a transformation, [3:34:27] Speaker 1: he went through a transformation. [3:34:29] Speaker 5: Well, I mean, if if you're looking at it as [3:34:31] Speaker 5: a representation or him being symbolic, then he represents a [3:34:36] Speaker 5: transformation and he goes through a transformation. Does that make sense? [3:34:40] Speaker 2: But everyone in the bubble does? [3:34:43] Speaker 3: Well. [3:34:43] Speaker 5: I specifically compared that one to the transformation of alchemy, [3:34:47] Speaker 5: of turning based metals into gold or elevating the spirit there. [3:34:53] Speaker 5: They're in connection to each other, how because the only [3:34:58] Speaker 5: way that you can evolve lower metals into higher metals [3:35:01] Speaker 5: are for you to evolve, for you to transform. You [3:35:04] Speaker 5: can only transform the substance by through a process of [3:35:09] Speaker 5: internal transformation. [3:35:10] Speaker 1: That's not coherent. Everything in the world is currently transforming. [3:35:14] Speaker 1: There's not a single thing in the world that's not [3:35:16] Speaker 1: currently changing form. [3:35:19] Speaker 5: Well, I said, transforming from a lower thing to a [3:35:21] Speaker 5: higher thing. For for example, how do you higher? You [3:35:28] Speaker 5: know it's lower and higher because of how it's energy [3:35:31] Speaker 5: energy gold. Gold is a more conducive metal than conductive [3:35:35] Speaker 5: stainless still. Yes, conductive than stainless still. [3:35:39] Speaker 1: One's not higher than the other, ones is more conductive [3:35:42] Speaker 1: than the other. [3:35:44] Speaker 5: I mean, I guess that will come down to our descriptions, [3:35:47] Speaker 5: but I do believe that things can go through an [3:35:49] Speaker 5: elevated state. Everything is not of equal value. Yeah, but [3:35:53] Speaker 5: we assigned. [3:35:55] Speaker 1: Values are are subjective to the human beings who want them. [3:35:58] Speaker 1: Just like platinum used to be completely valueless. Now it's [3:36:01] Speaker 1: like one of the most valuable things we have. [3:36:04] Speaker 5: Where I'm in value in terms of usage, like what [3:36:06] Speaker 5: I said about gold being more conductive and it being [3:36:09] Speaker 5: more malleable, like actually having different properties that are useful. [3:36:12] Speaker 1: But gold was useful before it was conductive, before we [3:36:17] Speaker 1: knew you can use it for electricity. [3:36:19] Speaker 5: So I just want to understand, is that the position [3:36:22] Speaker 5: you're taking right now is that all metals are equal [3:36:25] Speaker 5: in value, that stainless still is equal to gold, but [3:36:28] Speaker 5: the value of it as a facade or perception. [3:36:30] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all value is a facade. It's something we create. [3:36:35] Speaker 1: We decide what value is. [3:36:38] Speaker 5: Okay, Well, the first step of alchemy is that everything [3:36:41] Speaker 5: is the mind. All is the mind. [3:36:43] Speaker 1: Everything is the mind. [3:36:46] Speaker 5: Yes, everything is perceived through the mind, and that's where [3:36:49] Speaker 5: it's given its value. [3:36:50] Speaker 1: You know, I didn't ask about perception. I said, you [3:36:52] Speaker 1: said everything is the mind. [3:36:54] Speaker 5: The universe is mental. This is the first principle. [3:36:57] Speaker 1: Yes, sure, support that premise. How do you how do [3:37:01] Speaker 1: you support that everything. [3:37:02] Speaker 5: In the universe? I'm here, I was, well, I was [3:37:05] Speaker 5: here to state my case for God. I don't want [3:37:08] Speaker 5: to break down my whole belief system in alchemy and [3:37:10] Speaker 5: things that may not be relevant. [3:37:13] Speaker 2: Case for God. [3:37:14] Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, Well, I mean, I guess I would try [3:37:17] Speaker 5: to start from a scientific place because you do believe [3:37:19] Speaker 5: in science, I do. [3:37:21] Speaker 2: It sounds like you have a different science. [3:37:22] Speaker 5: So no, I mean I believe in things like fine tuning. [3:37:26] Speaker 5: Do you believe in that? [3:37:27] Speaker 2: That's not science? [3:37:30] Speaker 5: Okay, fine tuning is not a uh uh of aspect [3:37:38] Speaker 5: of science within an aspect of science. [3:37:40] Speaker 1: I think the way you're about to use it, it's pseudoscience. [3:37:43] Speaker 1: You're about to say that because we have life and [3:37:46] Speaker 1: it seems like life is dependent on finally tuned variables, [3:37:49] Speaker 1: then life had to be finely tuned by God. That's [3:37:53] Speaker 1: the argument you're going to give. [3:37:55] Speaker 5: But somewhat, but I would say that, do you believe [3:37:59] Speaker 5: that the Earth is in a proper proportion in that [3:38:02] Speaker 5: it's a very low probability of these things happening. [3:38:05] Speaker 1: No, it's just high probability. In fact, the probability is one. [3:38:11] Speaker 5: The probability of the universe existing. [3:38:13] Speaker 2: No, the probability of life on Earth. [3:38:17] Speaker 5: A probability is one out of one. Are you saying [3:38:22] Speaker 5: because it's already happened, or are you saying because of [3:38:24] Speaker 5: the possibilities of what it took for it to happen. [3:38:28] Speaker 1: Because it did happen, we have no idea what the [3:38:30] Speaker 1: probability would be, because probabilities are useless unless you know [3:38:34] Speaker 1: that there's some sort of an intention. Right, So, if [3:38:37] Speaker 1: I took a bag of marbles, and let's just say [3:38:41] Speaker 1: that I'm going to take the marbles, and let's say [3:38:45] Speaker 1: every one of them. I've got a bag of one [3:38:47] Speaker 1: hundred marbles, and every marble is a different color. If [3:38:52] Speaker 1: I throw that bag of marbles up in the air [3:38:54] Speaker 1: and I tell you before they land, I tell you [3:38:56] Speaker 1: what order they're all going to land in, and I [3:38:58] Speaker 1: draw a picture of it where every one and landed in, [3:39:01] Speaker 1: that would be the craziest shit in the world because [3:39:04] Speaker 1: nobody should be able to predict that. That's that's insane. Now, [3:39:08] Speaker 1: if I did the same thing. I threw the marbles [3:39:10] Speaker 1: up and they all just landed. That's meaningless. It means nothing. [3:39:15] Speaker 1: The only thing that makes those two things different is [3:39:18] Speaker 1: one had intention and one did not. The fact that [3:39:21] Speaker 1: the universe is the way that it is, and it [3:39:23] Speaker 1: could have been any other way is a meaningless thing [3:39:27] Speaker 1: unless you believe that it needed to be this way [3:39:30] Speaker 1: because it intended to create life. But we don't know [3:39:34] Speaker 1: or certainly have no reason to believe that the universe [3:39:37] Speaker 1: intended to do anything. [3:39:40] Speaker 5: Okay, do you believe? Okay, I don't want to stick [3:39:44] Speaker 5: there and get stuck because we could just talk in circles. [3:39:46] Speaker 5: I'll move to something that maybe we can. I want [3:39:48] Speaker 5: us to move forward in the conversation. So do you [3:39:51] Speaker 5: believe that beyond what we you know physically see when [3:39:55] Speaker 5: it comes to particles or nature or they're not like [3:39:58] Speaker 5: the aspects of nature that are not apparent to us, [3:40:01] Speaker 5: do you believe that they're working in order? Or do [3:40:03] Speaker 5: you believe that we came about through randomness? [3:40:06] Speaker 2: I think everything in the world is a product of chaos. [3:40:13] Speaker 5: So you believe in no order? We order within nature? [3:40:18] Speaker 1: In nature, order is a subjective term, like we we [3:40:21] Speaker 1: decided what we think order is. [3:40:25] Speaker 5: Oh man, Okay, we're breaking the conversation down all the way. [3:40:28] Speaker 5: But I'm going to define order. Now. When I say order, [3:40:32] Speaker 5: I mean things happening in particular ways that allow them [3:40:37] Speaker 5: to keep growing or surviving, as opposed to where it [3:40:41] Speaker 5: meets an obstacle that it allows that obstacle to stop [3:40:44] Speaker 5: it because it's only happening in a random way. [3:40:46] Speaker 2: That's not the definition of order. [3:40:50] Speaker 5: Can you pull up the definition of order? [3:40:52] Speaker 2: Yeah, the definition of order? Ahld on. It's like you [3:40:55] Speaker 2: can put your room in order. [3:40:58] Speaker 5: Well, I mean you just when I I mentioned the [3:41:00] Speaker 5: word order, you kind of brought it up as like, well, [3:41:02] Speaker 5: kind of like orders an elusive term. But I think [3:41:06] Speaker 5: we kind of understand at least a basis. [3:41:09] Speaker 3: Definition. [3:41:10] Speaker 1: Did not say it was elusive, that I said it's subjective. [3:41:13] Speaker 5: No, I wasn't being verbatim. I wasn't being verbatim, but subjective. [3:41:17] Speaker 1: In elusive or entirely different meanings. So the word order [3:41:21] Speaker 1: means the arrangement or disposition of people or things in [3:41:24] Speaker 1: relation to each other according to a particular sequence, pattern, [3:41:28] Speaker 1: or method, And the thing that makes it particular is [3:41:30] Speaker 1: human subjectiveness. We've decided what is a pattern or method [3:41:35] Speaker 1: that we find meaningful, or what we would call order. [3:41:41] Speaker 5: So now that we know what order means outside of [3:41:44] Speaker 5: what we believe or what we think, do you perceive [3:41:47] Speaker 5: that the universe works in any type of order according [3:41:51] Speaker 5: to that definition? Or is it random chaos? [3:41:55] Speaker 1: No, because we decided what order is. [3:41:57] Speaker 5: So is there a code to the universe? [3:42:00] Speaker 1: Certainly not. [3:42:04] Speaker 2: We lost him. [3:42:09] Speaker 5: I'm still here. My phone was just I got a notification. [3:42:12] Speaker 5: But I heard your answer to that. But okay, so [3:42:17] Speaker 5: I want to I want to actually let me, let [3:42:19] Speaker 5: me get on my computer so I can maybe pull [3:42:21] Speaker 5: up some things as well. [3:42:32] Speaker 2: It's almost four o'clock already, I implies. [3:42:35] Speaker 1: When you're having fun, I wish I had more time [3:42:37] Speaker 1: to stay alive. Next week i'll actually be. [3:42:41] Speaker 2: Able to host some longer live streams. [3:42:42] Speaker 1: My son's going to be visiting with mom for a [3:42:44] Speaker 1: little bit, and so when he's with mom, I'll do [3:42:47] Speaker 1: some longer live streams so we can get like a [3:42:50] Speaker 1: good six seven eight hour stream in there. [3:42:54] Speaker 5: Okay, I'm sorry, I'll let you finish. I don't mean [3:42:57] Speaker 5: to interrupt. No, No, that's fine, Okay, So I'll start here. [3:43:01] Speaker 5: The universal genetic code within biology it says, perhaps the [3:43:06] Speaker 5: most widely recognized universal code refers to a set of [3:43:09] Speaker 5: rules by which information is encoded in genetic material DNA [3:43:15] Speaker 5: and RNA translated into proteins by living cells. So you [3:43:19] Speaker 5: consider that a. [3:43:20] Speaker 1: Code, Well, we're talking about orders still. [3:43:24] Speaker 5: Well, I think that a colde I'm trying to get [3:43:28] Speaker 5: to where we disconnected on one thing, so I have [3:43:31] Speaker 5: to go a step back. We didn't agree on another thing, [3:43:33] Speaker 5: So I'm going to step back to find out where [3:43:35] Speaker 5: we agree. I have to get to us agreeing on [3:43:37] Speaker 5: something to move the needle the direction I want to [3:43:40] Speaker 5: move it to, or to try to at least, I [3:43:42] Speaker 5: can't do it from a place where we don't even agree. [3:43:44] Speaker 5: If I say the universe is there's a code to [3:43:47] Speaker 5: the universe, or the universe is in order, and you [3:43:49] Speaker 5: say no, it's not, I'm not going to get a [3:43:50] Speaker 5: go in a circle about that. I'm going to go [3:43:52] Speaker 5: a step further back to see what we actually agree on, [3:43:55] Speaker 5: because we have to agree on something. [3:43:57] Speaker 1: Well, a code to the universe is different than what [3:43:59] Speaker 1: we would call a code in our genetics. [3:44:03] Speaker 5: Okay, so are you speaking on like a universal code [3:44:06] Speaker 5: similar to a computer code? [3:44:08] Speaker 1: No? [3:44:09] Speaker 5: Okay, So what are you speaking on when you say code? [3:44:12] Speaker 1: I think the same. A code is a sequence of [3:44:17] Speaker 1: we'll call it things, a sequence of things that when [3:44:21] Speaker 1: they're in the appropriate sequence, they can be followed and [3:44:25] Speaker 1: produce a predictable result. [3:44:29] Speaker 5: Say that one more time for me. I heard you, [3:44:31] Speaker 5: but I want to get it clear. [3:44:32] Speaker 1: Code is typically something that sequenced and if you follow [3:44:35] Speaker 1: the sequence appropriately, you can get a desired result from it. [3:44:41] Speaker 6: So is there? [3:44:41] Speaker 5: So are you saying that you don't believe that there [3:44:44] Speaker 5: are is a sequence within nature? And I want to [3:44:48] Speaker 5: understand sequence is steps that would be taken to get [3:44:52] Speaker 5: to a particular result, right. [3:44:54] Speaker 1: In genetics, Yes, you can call it a code in [3:44:58] Speaker 1: the universe or in nature. [3:45:00] Speaker 5: No, okay, So, and no, you're and that's what I'm [3:45:05] Speaker 5: asking I'm not saying, like, don't take code to mean [3:45:09] Speaker 5: what you think I think it means. When I asked you, [3:45:12] Speaker 5: does the universe have any type of cold answer? It [3:45:15] Speaker 5: in any type like answer? Does it have any type [3:45:18] Speaker 5: of code? You're in a way what it seems like [3:45:20] Speaker 5: you're the universe. Hell, you're answering to my understanding instead [3:45:24] Speaker 5: of the words I'm using, no, or what you presume. [3:45:27] Speaker 2: The universe does not have a code. [3:45:30] Speaker 5: Okay, so when when I will I say code? [3:45:34] Speaker 1: If I mean so, I already know the argument that [3:45:36] Speaker 1: you're trying to give. [3:45:36] Speaker 5: You want me to to cut to the chase and [3:45:38] Speaker 5: give it, you know the argument that I'm giving. Yeah, [3:45:46] Speaker 5: please do tell me, Please do tell me. I feel [3:45:48] Speaker 5: like I've moved around a couple of times. I've tried [3:45:49] Speaker 5: to have three or four different conversations. So but please [3:45:52] Speaker 5: tell me, please tell me. [3:45:53] Speaker 1: Okay, Uh. The whole there's code in our DNA argument [3:45:57] Speaker 1: argues for the fact that you can't get into elligence [3:46:00] Speaker 1: from non intelligent life. Therefore, since there's code in our DNA, [3:46:03] Speaker 1: had to come from an intelligent designer. [3:46:06] Speaker 2: What you're trying to say, pretty go. [3:46:18] Speaker 5: Hey, hey, I'm here, My bad. I close the app [3:46:23] Speaker 5: to answer what you just asked? Am I am? I [3:46:26] Speaker 5: saying that because there's order or there's a code, that [3:46:28] Speaker 5: that that that that means that there's a designer. No, [3:46:32] Speaker 5: but I wanted to know that if there is order [3:46:34] Speaker 5: or or code, then what is your explanation for that [3:46:37] Speaker 5: it evolved? [3:46:38] Speaker 2: I believe what scientists believe. [3:46:41] Speaker 5: Okay, so what is the original cause? [3:46:43] Speaker 1: There's not an original cause? It's an infinite chain of causes. [3:46:47] Speaker 1: It's turtles all the way down, buddy. [3:46:50] Speaker 5: So okay, so you don't believe there's a So when [3:46:54] Speaker 5: I look this up right and this while, I'm gonna say, [3:46:56] Speaker 5: I am gonna cut to the chase a little bit [3:46:57] Speaker 5: or just cut through what I I look these things up. [3:47:01] Speaker 5: Scientists goes back and to belief in a multiverse. Do [3:47:04] Speaker 5: you believe in a multiverse? [3:47:05] Speaker 1: Some scientists believe in a multiverse. Some people believe in [3:47:09] Speaker 1: a different type of universe, like someone like Roger Penrosechan [3:47:12] Speaker 1: Carroll believe in a cyclical universe, which is I think [3:47:15] Speaker 1: that's my favorite theory, but certainly a multiverse could be [3:47:19] Speaker 1: a theory. I also like the universe within a universe theory, [3:47:22] Speaker 1: which is essentially that our universe is actually one small [3:47:25] Speaker 1: universe in an infinite series of universes that all simultaneously coexists. [3:47:33] Speaker 5: Okay, So my question is for those theories, is there [3:47:36] Speaker 5: any material evidence for any of them? [3:47:39] Speaker 2: Yeah? [3:47:39] Speaker 1: I think the latest comes from the DESI data collected [3:47:43] Speaker 1: in twoenty twenty two, twenty twenty three and is still ongoing. [3:47:47] Speaker 1: They're about to have a second round of data collected [3:47:50] Speaker 1: and release pretty soon. That indicates that the rate of [3:47:54] Speaker 1: acceleration for the expansion of the universe is decreasing, meaning [3:48:00] Speaker 1: the if you believe in dark energy, dark energy is [3:48:04] Speaker 1: weakening now. You could say that it's evolving like it's [3:48:06] Speaker 1: weakening now, but it could not be weakening later. You [3:48:10] Speaker 1: could also just say that, well, it seems to be weakening, [3:48:12] Speaker 1: which you would expect over the course of time. If [3:48:15] Speaker 1: you believe in a cyclical model of the universe, which. [3:48:18] Speaker 5: I do, can you can you repeat that that study? [3:48:26] Speaker 5: What is the name of it or who is it [3:48:28] Speaker 5: conducted by? [3:48:29] Speaker 1: So the data is collected referred to as the DESI [3:48:33] Speaker 1: data d E s I. DESI stands for Dark Energy [3:48:39] Speaker 1: Spectrum something or another. [3:48:41] Speaker 2: Now I got to look it up. [3:48:46] Speaker 5: I never remember the name of saying that it is [3:48:47] Speaker 5: in the process of trying and are you saying that [3:48:51] Speaker 5: it is in the process of trying to prove trying [3:48:56] Speaker 5: to prove this point through the slowing down of expansion [3:49:00] Speaker 5: or it has already proved that we are that the [3:49:04] Speaker 5: Big Bang was the connection to another cycle or a [3:49:07] Speaker 5: smaller universe within the universe. Are you saying it's in [3:49:10] Speaker 5: the process or it has been completed in proving something already, I'm. [3:49:13] Speaker 1: Saying, they're not trying to prove anything. The goal is [3:49:15] Speaker 1: to collect data. The interpretation of the data comes next. [3:49:19] Speaker 1: So it's called the Dark Energy Spectroscopic Instrument short term DESI, [3:49:24] Speaker 1: way easier to say DOZI. And they've been collecting data [3:49:27] Speaker 1: now for a couple of years, and the data shows that, [3:49:31] Speaker 1: in fact, the universe, the expansion of the universe is [3:49:35] Speaker 1: not a constant. They used to think it was a constant. [3:49:39] Speaker 1: Now we're going to have more data released in the future. [3:49:43] Speaker 1: So the more data points you get, the better. But [3:49:47] Speaker 1: up till now, the data points that we have demonstrate [3:49:50] Speaker 1: that the expansion rate of the universe is not going [3:49:53] Speaker 1: to accelerate. [3:49:57] Speaker 2: Forever. [3:50:02] Speaker 5: Sorry, So the flowing down of expansion is is the [3:50:07] Speaker 5: evidence or to the discovery of these pre existing universes? Orses? [3:50:15] Speaker 1: No, I never advocated for the multiverse. [3:50:20] Speaker 5: Okay, So what I'm gonna I'm looking at this here, [3:50:23] Speaker 5: the DESI, the DESI, uh dark DESI data, and I mean, [3:50:32] Speaker 5: I don't I don't see that it has actually like [3:50:36] Speaker 5: found any answers to what was the cause of the [3:50:38] Speaker 5: Big Bang. I'll look into it more. [3:50:41] Speaker 1: It's not attempting to the point of the Dozi diada [3:50:44] Speaker 1: has nothing to do is proven the Big Bang. [3:50:47] Speaker 5: Okay, so that's what I was asking you, though you [3:50:50] Speaker 5: prove the Big Bang? No, no, no, I was asking [3:50:54] Speaker 5: at first I asked what was the cause? [3:50:55] Speaker 2: And then I certainly didn't for the cause. [3:51:00] Speaker 5: I would tempt you to maybe rewind the playback, to [3:51:04] Speaker 5: rewind it back. I did say, I did say you [3:51:07] Speaker 5: believe in the Big Bang. Well, either way I'm gonna say, [3:51:10] Speaker 5: I'm gonna say this. [3:51:10] Speaker 1: Maybe you wanted to say that, maybe you meant to [3:51:12] Speaker 1: say that, but. [3:51:14] Speaker 5: Well, I don't want to get stuck on that, so [3:51:15] Speaker 5: I'll just say I could be wrong. But that's what [3:51:18] Speaker 5: I'm saying right now. Is what I was asking you about, [3:51:22] Speaker 5: was your explanation of the original cause or the uncaused [3:51:25] Speaker 5: or whatever. And that's how we got to this desidated stuff, [3:51:28] Speaker 5: because I'm assuming that this is about understanding what, understanding [3:51:33] Speaker 5: more information about before what we whatever we have already [3:51:37] Speaker 5: come to understand. [3:51:38] Speaker 1: I don't believe in our first cause. Why would I [3:51:40] Speaker 1: believe in our first cause? [3:51:42] Speaker 5: Don't you? Does every effect not have to have a cause? [3:51:45] Speaker 2: Yeah? [3:51:46] Speaker 1: Inefinite change of causes? [3:51:49] Speaker 5: What? And I asked what evidence is there for that, [3:51:52] Speaker 5: because we have no. [3:51:53] Speaker 1: Evidence of the country. All the evidence we have indicates [3:51:56] Speaker 1: that everything that's here has always is this a matter [3:51:59] Speaker 1: and energy can be courted and or destroyed. Logically, you [3:52:02] Speaker 1: can't get something from nothing. And since we have something, [3:52:04] Speaker 1: there's obviously no nothing. We have no evidence whatsoever that [3:52:08] Speaker 1: would point to the idea that there was once nothing. None. [3:52:12] Speaker 5: Oh no, I'm gonna say this. It sounds like what [3:52:15] Speaker 5: you're saying, what your your belief is or your understanding, [3:52:19] Speaker 5: takes just as much much faith as believing in a designer. [3:52:22] Speaker 1: Not even close. [3:52:25] Speaker 2: My viewpoint doesn't even require. [3:52:27] Speaker 5: A design Sorry, what you broke up a little bit. [3:52:30] Speaker 1: Not even close. My viewpoint is that there's always I [3:52:34] Speaker 1: can hear you. [3:52:38] Speaker 2: My view. [3:52:41] Speaker 1: Yes, my viewpoint is that the universe is eternal and [3:52:44] Speaker 1: there's no evidence to the contrary. There's not a single [3:52:47] Speaker 1: piece of evidence we have that suggests there was once [3:52:50] Speaker 1: nothing that gave rise to something. [3:52:54] Speaker 2: Unless you can tell me what it is. [3:53:06] Speaker 5: And how do we go from here back to the [3:53:08] Speaker 5: big Bang? [3:53:10] Speaker 2: You just count backwards. [3:53:18] Speaker 5: It's not hard, I say, So, how do we go [3:53:21] Speaker 5: from here basically back to the weg is We're going [3:53:26] Speaker 5: to keep going and going until eventually it's going to [3:53:28] Speaker 5: be nothing and we're going to start over, right, the [3:53:31] Speaker 5: Big Bang will happen again. [3:53:32] Speaker 1: Okay, so there's two theories. Yes, there's two theories. I [3:53:35] Speaker 1: think Roger Penrose's theory is a little bit different than [3:53:37] Speaker 1: someone like Sean Carroll, but it's been around for a [3:53:40] Speaker 1: long time. And the reality is, if the acceleration starts [3:53:45] Speaker 1: to decrease of the expansion, eventually it will decrease like [3:53:51] Speaker 1: we'll have a rather than an acceleration, will have a deceleration. [3:53:55] Speaker 1: And the deceleration obviously would be caused by gravity, and [3:54:06] Speaker 1: it might even be that black or that dark. [3:54:09] Speaker 5: Energy toleration gravity. I'm sorry, well I'm. [3:54:13] Speaker 1: Saying no, the deceleration would be caused by gravity. And [3:54:25] Speaker 1: I don't even know if we can attribute this to [3:54:27] Speaker 1: the weakening of dark energy. I I know there's a [3:54:30] Speaker 1: lot of good arguments for dark energy existing. I think [3:54:33] Speaker 1: the reason why we have the Big Bang is because [3:54:35] Speaker 1: of black hole bounce. [3:54:36] Speaker 5: Uh. [3:54:37] Speaker 1: That's something that is studied and known, and black hole [3:54:40] Speaker 1: bounce could definitely contribute to why the universe is expanding, [3:54:44] Speaker 1: rather than blaming it on dark energy. Oh coause if [3:54:46] Speaker 1: you ask quantum physics. Quantum physics seems to have a [3:54:50] Speaker 1: really good explanation for dark energy that obviously I don't [3:54:53] Speaker 1: have the expertise to argue against. All they know is that, [3:54:57] Speaker 1: you know, the science on this is certainly what's the [3:55:00] Speaker 1: word I'm looking for, it's still active, like people are [3:55:03] Speaker 1: still trying to figure some of this stuff out. What [3:55:06] Speaker 1: I do know is that no matter what the various [3:55:09] Speaker 1: points of argumentation are, there's just no evidence that there [3:55:12] Speaker 1: was ever nothing. [3:55:19] Speaker 5: I mean that kind of I would honestly say that [3:55:21] Speaker 5: lines up with with my belief in a designer, because [3:55:25] Speaker 5: I believe that designer has to be eternal, so there [3:55:27] Speaker 5: was always something there. We actually don't agree on that [3:55:31] Speaker 5: on what that matter may have been. So let me [3:55:34] Speaker 5: ask this to you, but consciousness. [3:55:36] Speaker 1: But if the universe is eternal, why do we need [3:55:38] Speaker 1: a designer? [3:55:43] Speaker 5: If the universe is eternal, why does it need a designer. [3:55:48] Speaker 5: I'm saying that the designer is eternal. You said there [3:55:50] Speaker 5: was always something there. I didn't say the universe was always. [3:55:52] Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. [3:55:53] Speaker 5: Say the universe is eternal. [3:55:54] Speaker 2: In my worldview, If. [3:55:55] Speaker 1: The universe is eternal, what do we need a designer [3:55:57] Speaker 1: for what. [3:56:00] Speaker 5: I don't believe the universe is eternal, but I do [3:56:05] Speaker 5: so that's just where we have a difference in belief. [3:56:07] Speaker 5: But if you have some evidence to why you believe that, [3:56:09] Speaker 5: I would be open to it. [3:56:10] Speaker 1: I just told you like five different points. [3:56:18] Speaker 5: On why the universe is eternal. [3:56:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, because you can't get something from nothing. We have something. Therefore, [3:56:24] Speaker 1: there was never nothing, no reason to believe there was [3:56:26] Speaker 1: ever nothing. Number two, the cyclical universe model is a [3:56:31] Speaker 1: working model. It's a real thing, and the desert data [3:56:34] Speaker 1: seems to actually confirm it. I mean, I don't see [3:56:38] Speaker 1: a way around that. And if we believe you, I [3:56:41] Speaker 1: would say, if we believe that time is a property [3:56:45] Speaker 1: of the universe rather than an independent item independent from [3:56:52] Speaker 1: the universe, then well shit, there's nothing. There's absolutely no [3:56:56] Speaker 1: issue saying that the universe existed forever, because he even [3:57:00] Speaker 1: if everything was like completely immaterial, even if alls he [3:57:05] Speaker 1: had is like some weird singularity, well then time. [3:57:08] Speaker 2: Just wouldn't exist. [3:57:09] Speaker 1: And then time would not exist until time existed, because [3:57:13] Speaker 1: time is not an independent entity. It's just literally a [3:57:16] Speaker 1: property of the material universe. So it just something wasn't [3:57:20] Speaker 1: in existence until you got the material universe. Once you [3:57:23] Speaker 1: get the material universe and you get time. [3:57:27] Speaker 5: Okay, so I'm gonna I'm gonna be I'm gonna try [3:57:29] Speaker 5: to understand what you said, because that was a little [3:57:31] Speaker 5: bit of a lot for me. But are you saying [3:57:33] Speaker 5: that something if it's eternal in your perspective, even before [3:57:39] Speaker 5: it actually manifests into a physical thing, like before whatever [3:57:43] Speaker 5: the Big Bang was, Let's say there was just heat [3:57:46] Speaker 5: or energy of some some raw sort, you would still [3:57:49] Speaker 5: say the universe is there even though it hasn't manifested [3:57:53] Speaker 5: yet because it will manifest. Or are you saying something different? [3:57:55] Speaker 1: No energy would be the universe even if, first of all, [3:57:58] Speaker 1: energy is not a thing you can't just be energy. [3:58:01] Speaker 1: Energy is a property of the physical universe. That being said, [3:58:07] Speaker 1: even if there was energy, let's say it's just a [3:58:09] Speaker 1: quantum field. Okay, we've got a quantum field and there's [3:58:12] Speaker 1: no matter yet. Well, quantum fields give rise to actual matter, [3:58:16] Speaker 1: so it doesn't matter if it's completely a quantum field [3:58:20] Speaker 1: or if there was always matter. The reality is there [3:58:24] Speaker 1: was always something. We have no reason to believe that [3:58:26] Speaker 1: there wasn't nothing. [3:58:28] Speaker 5: Yeah, I think we just said the same thing. I [3:58:30] Speaker 5: understand but I just wanted to be clear on what [3:58:32] Speaker 5: you were saying. [3:58:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, but a quantum field doesn't require God to create it. [3:58:36] Speaker 5: No, I understand that. But this is this is why [3:58:39] Speaker 5: I ask that question. For example, like a human right now, [3:58:42] Speaker 5: me and you are alive. We are consciousness, but and [3:58:45] Speaker 5: we are energy. But when we passed that energy would [3:58:49] Speaker 5: just turn into what heat? Are part of the atmosphere? [3:58:51] Speaker 5: Right that would you believe? [3:58:53] Speaker 2: No, go into the ground and it will turn into [3:58:56] Speaker 2: worm food. [3:58:58] Speaker 5: Okay, So that even though we are that is the [3:59:00] Speaker 5: same energy that we carried throughout life. Now it is [3:59:04] Speaker 5: only decomposing, uh soon to be soiled a body. But [3:59:10] Speaker 5: basically energy can say that. [3:59:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, so energy is not a thing. Energy is a measurement. [3:59:16] Speaker 2: It's the property is something. Energy is a property of things. [3:59:22] Speaker 5: I understand. I'm just using the word as a placeholder. [3:59:25] Speaker 5: I don't take it like to like I'm I'm not [3:59:28] Speaker 5: trying to downplay the word energy or something like that. [3:59:30] Speaker 5: I'm just using that as a for understanding. [3:59:33] Speaker 1: But that's what I'm saying. Like if if our body, [3:59:37] Speaker 1: when we decompose, it just goes into the to the ground, [3:59:41] Speaker 1: We're just going to be consumed by by other stuff. [3:59:45] Speaker 1: There's there's nothing, there's no immaterial part of us that [3:59:48] Speaker 1: needs to go somewhere else, Like we don't have any [3:59:50] Speaker 1: souls or anything. [3:59:53] Speaker 5: Okay, So I'm glad you brought that up because that [3:59:56] Speaker 5: moves me to my next point. So you don't you [3:59:59] Speaker 5: don't think that there is a on physical aspect to [4:00:01] Speaker 5: a human No, how would you describe feelings? [4:00:05] Speaker 1: Feelings are chemical reactions in your brain. We can manipulate them, [4:00:08] Speaker 1: we can measure them, we can induce them. [4:00:12] Speaker 6: Okay. [4:00:12] Speaker 5: Do you consider the mind physical or is it connected [4:00:15] Speaker 5: to a physical body part physical? The mind is physical, Yeah, [4:00:21] Speaker 5: do science believe that the mind is fully physical? [4:00:24] Speaker 1: As far as I can tell, I've never seen a [4:00:26] Speaker 1: good piece of science suggesting that there's an immaterial part [4:00:29] Speaker 1: of the mind. [4:00:30] Speaker 5: In fact, I've heard that the mind in science is [4:00:34] Speaker 5: known as the hard problem because sciences have a hard [4:00:36] Speaker 5: time fully defining the aspects of the mind that are intangible, [4:00:41] Speaker 5: as far as perception consciousness, Like describe the color red, [4:00:45] Speaker 5: Like describe the perception of the color red. Things like that. [4:00:50] Speaker 5: Science has a hard time describing those things because they're [4:00:52] Speaker 5: not fully physical. [4:00:53] Speaker 1: I don't know if science does. Science knows exactly what [4:00:55] Speaker 1: red is. It's a wavelength. [4:00:58] Speaker 5: No, I'm talking about the mind. I was just using [4:00:59] Speaker 5: that same example. [4:01:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think these are kind of illogical questions, right, [4:01:03] Speaker 1: saying can you smell the color purple or hear the [4:01:09] Speaker 1: feeling of a needle prick? Like you're you're you're using [4:01:13] Speaker 1: two different forms of interacting with the world that don't [4:01:17] Speaker 1: cross over. [4:01:18] Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I don't want to get stuck on that. [4:01:21] Speaker 5: I'm just talking about the mind, right, I'm just trying [4:01:24] Speaker 5: to understand. Do you understand do you perceive any non [4:01:27] Speaker 5: physical aspect of the mind. But you're saying no, I [4:01:30] Speaker 5: don't see a reason to know so as a thought [4:01:35] Speaker 5: physical as far as I can tell, Yeah, an idea physical, [4:01:38] Speaker 5: An idea is physical. [4:01:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, the idea is in our brain. It's a it's [4:01:43] Speaker 1: a physical thing. We can measure the brain waves and [4:01:47] Speaker 1: see like how they the brain is coming up with [4:01:50] Speaker 1: these thoughts. We can even see like what people are [4:01:52] Speaker 1: thinking if we're doing brain scans. Effect. I've got a [4:01:56] Speaker 1: friend who's a medical doctor who knows a little bit [4:01:58] Speaker 1: about this. I think he wants to add something too, [4:02:00] Speaker 1: is how I do an MS? [4:02:03] Speaker 10: Can you hear me? [4:02:05] Speaker 3: I'm good. How are you. [4:02:07] Speaker 5: I've heard this guy in a different lives. [4:02:08] Speaker 10: How you doing, I'm good? [4:02:10] Speaker 6: How are you? [4:02:11] Speaker 5: Yeah you got a real. [4:02:14] Speaker 6: I thank you? [4:02:15] Speaker 10: And yeah, I keep you up to say that, I [4:02:19] Speaker 10: lose my train of thought start saying And we were [4:02:24] Speaker 10: just in just saying you're saying. [4:02:26] Speaker 1: So we were talking about whether or not the brain [4:02:29] Speaker 1: contains any sort of like immaterial proper to it, or [4:02:32] Speaker 1: if the brain is just like a physical thing. [4:02:36] Speaker 10: The mind, not the brain. The mind and the brain [4:02:38] Speaker 10: to me the same thing. A good example of this [4:02:42] Speaker 10: is like if you if you think of language and [4:02:44] Speaker 10: our ability to interpret language and use language, we can [4:02:48] Speaker 10: see specific points in the brain which are specialized in grammar. [4:02:52] Speaker 10: For example, if you have a problem and again your [4:02:56] Speaker 10: book is area, you would have problems keep you didating [4:03:00] Speaker 10: even unteating words or speaking at all. And I have [4:03:03] Speaker 10: a problem with grammar. If you have a problem with [4:03:06] Speaker 10: your vertex area, you would have a problem understanding words, [4:03:11] Speaker 10: but you would be able to make and produce sounds [4:03:13] Speaker 10: in a grammatically correct way. So like everything that would [4:03:18] Speaker 10: be quote unquote perception and conscious and your ability to [4:03:23] Speaker 10: communicate or perceive. Again, this is you giving out to [4:03:27] Speaker 10: the world, to the world speaking and producing sounds and [4:03:31] Speaker 10: language and you interpreting the words. But again as language [4:03:36] Speaker 10: can be by different points of your brain. Yeahs do [4:03:41] Speaker 10: you believe completely independently? So you can so Again, as [4:03:44] Speaker 10: we said, you can have which would be expressive of phisia. [4:03:47] Speaker 10: If you have a problem in your brindics area, you [4:03:50] Speaker 10: would be able to produce words. You would you would [4:03:53] Speaker 10: be fluent. You're able to make sentences, but you wouldn't [4:03:55] Speaker 10: be able to understand sentences. [4:03:58] Speaker 5: I understand perception, you know. [4:04:00] Speaker 2: So do you believe that, say like fish? Do you [4:04:04] Speaker 2: think fish have souls? [4:04:07] Speaker 6: Yeah? [4:04:07] Speaker 5: Well I think fish have a spirit. I think a soul. [4:04:11] Speaker 5: To my understanding, a soul is the tethering of a [4:04:14] Speaker 5: spirit and a body. [4:04:17] Speaker 2: Does Does this fish spirit go somewhere when it dies? Yes? [4:04:22] Speaker 5: Everything returns to the source where the admit that what [4:04:29] Speaker 5: I would call the cause, which you basically don't believe. [4:04:31] Speaker 6: Is necessary. [4:04:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, but where where where does it go? [4:04:37] Speaker 5: Well? I would say the spirit is non physical. It [4:04:39] Speaker 5: exists where the mind exists. But where where does exist? [4:04:43] Speaker 2: Yeah? But where is that? [4:04:46] Speaker 5: I mean you experience? Have you ever had a dream? Yeah? [4:04:50] Speaker 5: Where did it happen? [4:04:52] Speaker 3: In my head? [4:04:54] Speaker 5: And you're what though you don't want to say the word. [4:04:57] Speaker 5: You don't want to say it in your mind. My [4:05:01] Speaker 5: mind is in my head, Yeah it is, but you [4:05:06] Speaker 5: didn't want to be specific in saying that it happens [4:05:08] Speaker 5: in your mind. Does it happen in the back of [4:05:10] Speaker 5: your head? [4:05:11] Speaker 1: What happens all throughout my head? Like various regions of [4:05:14] Speaker 1: my brain are going to be firing while I'm dreaming, Well. [4:05:17] Speaker 5: I would say it happened you see dreams with your [4:05:20] Speaker 5: pineal grant gland, and you perceive dreams with your third eye. [4:05:25] Speaker 5: That's not true, you know that's so what do you [4:05:28] Speaker 5: what do you look at a dream with? [4:05:31] Speaker 10: You don't look at dreams because again, your eyes are [4:05:34] Speaker 10: not going to be active. [4:05:37] Speaker 5: So okay, so do we not do you guys not [4:05:41] Speaker 5: believe that that you can see with the piineal gland. [4:05:45] Speaker 10: Hey, you don't see with the planial glint. The pineal [4:05:48] Speaker 10: glint is gonna produce militunin, which is putting you to sleep, [4:05:52] Speaker 10: and it's going to regulate your sarcadian rhythm. But it [4:05:54] Speaker 10: is not gonna be cuse you to see stuff that [4:05:57] Speaker 10: it's going to be boosty your quotex area. H It [4:06:00] Speaker 10: is just stactivey th pisweet, which re activated when you're [4:06:03] Speaker 10: a week. [4:06:05] Speaker 5: A small in doctrine plan in the brain believed to [4:06:09] Speaker 5: play a role in dreaming, particularly in mider But why [4:06:14] Speaker 5: did you guys just completely deny what I said? Because [4:06:19] Speaker 5: stuff could have made a bridge. I literally just said [4:06:23] Speaker 5: that the pioneal gland is what leads to us having [4:06:27] Speaker 5: dreams or seeing. We see dreams through the pineal. [4:06:30] Speaker 10: Gland as soon as they see stuff. Maybe, but you know, [4:06:34] Speaker 10: but you know, you don't think that couse you to [4:06:36] Speaker 10: see stuff. The aution of your critical pro by putting [4:06:41] Speaker 10: you to sleep, play by putting you to sleep and [4:06:45] Speaker 10: get your sleep, and we can meet your sleeping Yes, Okay. [4:06:49] Speaker 5: I see here now, and I'm going to say I [4:06:52] Speaker 5: agree with what No, I agree with what you're saying. [4:06:54] Speaker 5: But I also think that what I'm saying is a [4:06:56] Speaker 5: part of the whole thing. I feel like maybe you're [4:06:59] Speaker 5: you're pointing out the half that you're aware of it. [4:07:01] Speaker 5: I see here. It produces melotonin, a hormone that regulates [4:07:05] Speaker 5: sleep and wake cycles. So you are right in Some [4:07:07] Speaker 5: research suggests it may also be involved in the production [4:07:10] Speaker 5: of two. Now, that was when I continued. They started [4:07:15] Speaker 5: out saying that the grand gland plays a role in dreaming, [4:07:19] Speaker 5: particularly in the vividness and imagery of dreams. [4:07:22] Speaker 10: Hey, what is the role? [4:07:26] Speaker 5: Well, I said the role. Well, I don't know exactly [4:07:30] Speaker 5: what the role is, but it also produces melotones. What [4:07:32] Speaker 5: do you acknowledge what you said? [4:07:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, what do glenns do? [4:07:37] Speaker 5: I was only speaking about the pineal glen, I know, [4:07:40] Speaker 5: And I just pulled up the definition for what I read. [4:07:42] Speaker 10: But it's called a glen for reasons, so they again, [4:07:48] Speaker 10: but it just slipped this up and it says the [4:07:50] Speaker 10: plain new glends directly comes visual dreams, but it please [4:07:53] Speaker 10: the rule and sleep and dreaming. [4:07:57] Speaker 6: They do not know. [4:07:58] Speaker 10: Hell yeah, but I do not know. Hell which because [4:08:00] Speaker 10: you to see physical threats in your dream because it [4:08:03] Speaker 10: can understand. [4:08:06] Speaker 5: I understand my statement wasn't but you took it as if, [4:08:11] Speaker 5: I mean, the way you respond it was if there [4:08:13] Speaker 5: was no validity to what I was saying. I understand [4:08:15] Speaker 5: it wasn't accurate, and so it wasn't accurate. [4:08:20] Speaker 1: So I'm saying there's kind of a symptom of the [4:08:22] Speaker 1: conversation that we've been having so far, which is that [4:08:25] Speaker 1: I think sometimes you you you use words, and I [4:08:29] Speaker 1: don't I don't know the best way to say it, [4:08:31] Speaker 1: but I think sometimes you use words haphazardly and the [4:08:35] Speaker 1: way you mean them to be taken don't mean what [4:08:37] Speaker 1: they actually mean. But the problem that we have is [4:08:40] Speaker 1: we only we can only know the meaning of the [4:08:43] Speaker 1: words that leave your mouth, not how you intend to [4:08:46] Speaker 1: use them. Right, So if you if you use a [4:08:48] Speaker 1: word and you intended it to mean something different than [4:08:53] Speaker 1: like the blanket value of the word, we have no [4:08:55] Speaker 1: way of knowing that, right. That's why we're listening to [4:09:01] Speaker 1: Like we're listening very carefully to your words and analyzing [4:09:05] Speaker 1: your words because all we can really know is your words. [4:09:07] Speaker 1: We don't know any of your intents on how to [4:09:10] Speaker 1: use the word. Okay, I understand, but we're trying, like [4:09:14] Speaker 1: we're trying to hear your words and think to ourselves, Okay, [4:09:17] Speaker 1: what does he mean? [4:09:18] Speaker 2: What's he trying to say? [4:09:20] Speaker 6: Right? [4:09:20] Speaker 2: So we're we're we're trying. [4:09:23] Speaker 5: I probably simplify it, Yes, I'll simplify it. There is [4:09:26] Speaker 5: a non physical aspect to life as I perceive it, [4:09:31] Speaker 5: Maybe you perceive it differently. But when I think about [4:09:35] Speaker 5: a day dream or a dream or using your imagination [4:09:39] Speaker 5: I think about if you I'm listening, go ahead, you [4:09:43] Speaker 5: want to say something. [4:09:43] Speaker 6: They do not. [4:09:44] Speaker 10: They do not mean to interrupt you. But I personally [4:09:46] Speaker 10: do not have the ability to visual life and I [4:09:50] Speaker 10: don't dream. So it's my consciousness not to have physical [4:09:54] Speaker 10: and metaphysical. [4:09:57] Speaker 5: I would say that if you're if you do not [4:09:59] Speaker 5: have the ability to imagine, it's not just me. Well, [4:10:05] Speaker 5: I think that imagination is a part of human experience. [4:10:09] Speaker 10: They do not have that. [4:10:11] Speaker 5: Okay, so so you cannot Are you able to visualize [4:10:16] Speaker 5: at all? [4:10:16] Speaker 10: And I don't not at all? [4:10:18] Speaker 5: No, if I if I said close your eyes and [4:10:21] Speaker 5: picture a bucket, you couldn't. [4:10:22] Speaker 10: Have done this with my life. No, I don't know [4:10:24] Speaker 10: how to do that. [4:10:25] Speaker 1: No, it actually is you. [4:10:28] Speaker 5: Does that make you? Does that make you less conscious? [4:10:32] Speaker 10: Am asking you? You said that it is proving the [4:10:34] Speaker 10: fact that we dream, that we have imaginations, is proving [4:10:36] Speaker 10: that there's a non physical aspect. And I'm telling you [4:10:39] Speaker 10: I do not see that. They do not have that. [4:10:41] Speaker 10: The have aphesia, which you can look up that you [4:10:44] Speaker 10: said that you have a computer next to you, look [4:10:46] Speaker 10: up infantesia. Millions of people make me a p H [4:10:52] Speaker 10: A N A s I now MS get this. [4:10:57] Speaker 1: There's there's another version of this. I don't know what [4:11:00] Speaker 1: it's called for for auditory things. So for example, when [4:11:03] Speaker 1: I read, I can hear the words in my head, [4:11:07] Speaker 1: like my head is reproducing the words as I'm reading it. [4:11:09] Speaker 2: Right, I've got her brother, I've got a brother. [4:11:14] Speaker 10: Also another area in yeah. [4:11:18] Speaker 1: Area Yeah, what he reads is dead silent. He doesn't [4:11:21] Speaker 1: hear anything. Nothing's happening in his brain when he reads, [4:11:24] Speaker 1: which is really interesting, they think. [4:11:37] Speaker 5: I would like, Yeah, I'm sorry, I pulled it up. [4:11:39] Speaker 5: I would like to read what I found for a fantasia. [4:11:42] Speaker 5: It said. Affantasia is the inability to voluntary, voluntarily visualize [4:11:49] Speaker 5: mental images. It is often described as having a mind's [4:11:53] Speaker 5: eye that is blind. So that's me, yes, meaning individuals [4:12:02] Speaker 5: without it cannot form mental pictures of things they are [4:12:06] Speaker 5: thinking about. Right, So I will say this first. First, [4:12:10] Speaker 5: I just want to acknowledge that here, I don't we [4:12:14] Speaker 5: don't have to stick with this term or hold it [4:12:16] Speaker 5: super firm. But how it mentions a mind's eye, I [4:12:19] Speaker 5: think that is kind of referring to what I was [4:12:21] Speaker 5: trying to describe. I did it poorly. As you said, [4:12:25] Speaker 5: deconstruction zone. But I was just trying to describe that [4:12:29] Speaker 5: when we dream, we are seeing through the mind's eye. [4:12:32] Speaker 5: So that actually comes back to the point I was [4:12:34] Speaker 5: making a minute ago. You can you can like reject it. [4:12:36] Speaker 5: I'm totally fine with that, but I just wanted to [4:12:38] Speaker 5: clarify what I was trying to say enough that, yeah, [4:12:41] Speaker 5: we see dreams through the mind's eye. Well, this dreams [4:12:44] Speaker 5: happened in the mind, you know. [4:12:45] Speaker 1: So Unfortunately I'm short a time. I got to get [4:12:48] Speaker 1: to the super chats before it gets too much later. [4:12:51] Speaker 1: My stream has to end by five o'clock. But listen, [4:12:53] Speaker 1: you've been like really kind and you've been a really [4:12:56] Speaker 1: nice guest, and we super appreciate that because you know, [4:13:00] Speaker 1: we can discuss these topics and it doesn't actually have [4:13:03] Speaker 1: to turn into like a shouting match. You can just [4:13:05] Speaker 1: have a conversation. And I feel like we did have [4:13:07] Speaker 1: a conversation. So I appreciate the conversation. [4:13:11] Speaker 5: Thank you, man. I want to be clear, man, I [4:13:13] Speaker 5: love science as well, just because I'm a believer, I [4:13:16] Speaker 5: still love science and I believe in reality. [4:13:19] Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. Well, listen, we appreciate you science. [4:13:22] Speaker 5: Yes, I'll be back. [4:13:23] Speaker 2: Cheers, buddy, Come yeah, come back, so all right, but [4:13:26] Speaker 2: I have a great day. [4:13:26] Speaker 10: Guys, you too, are you too? [4:13:29] Speaker 1: What a what a great guest to have near the [4:13:32] Speaker 1: end of the stream, like a palate cleanser, you know [4:13:38] Speaker 1: what I mean. [4:13:40] Speaker 2: He's pretty nice. All right, I'm going to read some [4:13:41] Speaker 2: super chats. It's four fourteen. [4:13:43] Speaker 1: I'm probably not going to have time to take another guest, [4:13:47] Speaker 1: but I want to get to everyone super chats because [4:13:48] Speaker 1: I really appreciate you. [4:13:51] Speaker 10: I'm going to be drinking, but thank you for having [4:13:52] Speaker 10: me up. [4:13:53] Speaker 2: Thank you so much for being here, Bud. I appreciate you, man. [4:13:56] Speaker 10: Okay, thank you for having me up. [4:13:57] Speaker 2: Have a great one. W MS big w for ems. [4:14:03] Speaker 1: Like people think of MS as just like the worst [4:14:07] Speaker 1: fear of Muslims, but dudes just smart in so many ways. [4:14:10] Speaker 1: He's amazing. Just not a lot of people like him. [4:14:15] Speaker 1: Robin says, Happy Monday. Well shit, Rob him, Happy Monday [4:14:18] Speaker 1: to you. We got some Monday barbecue in. I hope [4:14:21] Speaker 1: that you enjoyed it. I really do. And Kyle coming [4:14:23] Speaker 1: in again. Thank you so much Kyle for the super chat. [4:14:25] Speaker 1: He says, Well, we might be able to compare the [4:14:28] Speaker 1: choice to choose something in comparison to the Phoenis Gauge event. [4:14:34] Speaker 2: This is news for me. [4:14:35] Speaker 1: What's a Phoenish this Phenis Gauge. Oh, Phineas Phineas Gauge. [4:14:43] Speaker 1: The guy had got the steak into his head. Yes, okay, [4:14:47] Speaker 1: the Phineas Gauge situation was wild. Okay, so let me [4:14:52] Speaker 1: make sure I read the rest of this. Yeah, Phineas [4:14:54] Speaker 1: Gauge event, the one with the railroad spike. He kind [4:14:57] Speaker 1: of lost his ability to choose due to bring damage thoughts. Okay, [4:15:02] Speaker 1: so I agree with you, like we we can. We [4:15:07] Speaker 1: can manipulate the brain and determine that people's ability to [4:15:11] Speaker 1: choose can be hindered, not just Phineas Gage. If you [4:15:15] Speaker 1: go to the split brain experiments that were pioneered by [4:15:19] Speaker 1: Roger Sperry, what we find is when we split the [4:15:23] Speaker 1: colopial colopum course, that what the fuck do you call that? [4:15:27] Speaker 1: Hold on? [4:15:34] Speaker 2: What do they call that thing? Okay? [4:15:37] Speaker 1: The thing that they cut in your brain is the [4:15:38] Speaker 1: corpus colostomy. Fuck, I would not even close to that. [4:15:43] Speaker 1: The corpus colostomy. They'll cut it in the brain and [4:15:46] Speaker 1: it divides the two halves of the brain, so they [4:15:48] Speaker 1: don't really get. [4:15:49] Speaker 2: Cross talk anymore. [4:15:50] Speaker 1: What they find is people develop two different personalities. A [4:15:54] Speaker 1: lot of times they can't like you can't do one thing, [4:15:57] Speaker 1: like you can't cover this eye and think about something [4:16:01] Speaker 1: the same way you could do covering this eye and [4:16:03] Speaker 1: think about something, because the data goes to different places. [4:16:06] Speaker 1: So what they would do is like show somebody a [4:16:09] Speaker 1: picture and close one eye and ask them to describe it, [4:16:13] Speaker 1: and then do the other eye and ask them to [4:16:14] Speaker 1: describe it. What they discovered is like, depending on what [4:16:18] Speaker 1: side of your brain you were using, you couldn't even [4:16:20] Speaker 1: describe it, Like you might be able to close this [4:16:22] Speaker 1: eye and describe it, and then. [4:16:24] Speaker 2: Try this eye. [4:16:25] Speaker 1: You can't describe it, but you can draw it, right. [4:16:27] Speaker 1: So the split brain experiments I think reinforce the finius [4:16:32] Speaker 1: gage situation as a really good thought. There, Kyle and squeegee, [4:16:36] Speaker 1: says Hi Justin hail Nero. Hail NERO, I agree. I've [4:16:40] Speaker 1: always thought that let's try this again on a T [4:16:43] Speaker 1: shirt would be a great addition to the DZ swag. [4:16:46] Speaker 2: I'd buy one. [4:16:48] Speaker 1: I actually I. [4:16:49] Speaker 2: Agree with you. [4:16:50] Speaker 1: One second. One second we're gonna do. I'm gonna put [4:16:55] Speaker 1: this in my web browser and save it for later. [4:16:57] Speaker 2: We will do. I will. [4:16:59] Speaker 1: I will come hell or highwater this week. Friends, I [4:17:02] Speaker 1: will go because a lot of people ask for it. [4:17:04] Speaker 1: I will do a shirt this week and maybe some [4:17:07] Speaker 1: stickers that say we'll try this again. I promise we'll [4:17:11] Speaker 1: get we'll get it done. Squeegee, I promise we'll get [4:17:13] Speaker 1: it done. Thank you for being here, though, and thank [4:17:15] Speaker 1: you for supporting I am. I'm a little behind on [4:17:18] Speaker 1: getting some of these tasks completed. Deleted user says, what [4:17:22] Speaker 1: are the chances so No is using that guy's stolen card? [4:17:28] Speaker 1: H shit, I forgot the conversation I was having with [4:17:31] Speaker 1: so No. [4:17:31] Speaker 2: Now I don't know. [4:17:33] Speaker 1: Shoot, I mean it's certainly, certainly it seems plausible. I apologize. [4:17:38] Speaker 1: I kind of forgot what was going on with Son. [4:17:41] Speaker 1: Kenneth says, SONO guys single handedly paying for Justin's college. [4:17:45] Speaker 1: Oh the I'm sorry Son. The guy who was commenting, [4:17:50] Speaker 1: not the guy I was talking to, said what are [4:17:52] Speaker 1: the chances that so No is using that guy stolen card? [4:17:56] Speaker 1: Maybe he seems he seems out there. Kennath says, this [4:18:00] Speaker 1: Son guy single handedly pain for Justin's college fund? Notice [4:18:03] Speaker 1: how all his chats are threats of God, not facts. [4:18:06] Speaker 1: Isn't that The funniest thing is that the evangelists, the missionaries, [4:18:11] Speaker 1: they don't want to bring you facts. They want to [4:18:13] Speaker 1: bring you preaching. And the reason why they the reason [4:18:18] Speaker 1: why they bring you preaching one is because they don't [4:18:20] Speaker 1: have facts. [4:18:22] Speaker 2: That's it. [4:18:23] Speaker 1: Also because it works on people who kind of already [4:18:25] Speaker 1: believe preaching is really effective. When you go to somebody [4:18:30] Speaker 1: who's like elapsed Christian and they still kind of believe [4:18:34] Speaker 1: it's very fucking effective, you can get that person in [4:18:36] Speaker 1: church fast. But for an atheist, preaching's useless. It doesn't [4:18:41] Speaker 1: matter how many times you read John three point sixteen [4:18:43] Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything. I am the cheese welcome back, it says, [4:18:47] Speaker 1: son of fulgrum SONO is a Warhammer forty K reference [4:18:53] Speaker 1: or forty K reference due to cosplay theists. Are you [4:18:56] Speaker 1: suggesting that son is not a real Christian? Maybe I [4:19:01] Speaker 1: could believe that, or just not a bright one actually, [4:19:06] Speaker 1: damn aka Shmooley, Well, thank you for letting us know [4:19:09] Speaker 1: that this is schmooly. Thank you for the fight out [4:19:10] Speaker 1: of supertes says I'm with you on pens. I got [4:19:13] Speaker 1: a custom one as a gift, made from a whiskey barrel. [4:19:16] Speaker 1: Are you shit me? It still has a little whiskey [4:19:19] Speaker 1: smell every now and then, always rock hard for Douglasten, [4:19:22] Speaker 1: that sounds like a dope ass pen. I listen, I [4:19:24] Speaker 1: would pay money for that kind of a pen. I [4:19:27] Speaker 1: love a cool pen. That's dope. Thank you for sharing, Sam. [4:19:31] Speaker 1: I didn't know that they were making such cool things. [4:19:33] Speaker 1: But why why wouldn't you? It's just would Of course [4:19:35] Speaker 1: you can turn a whiskey wood into a pen. Timmoedy says, [4:19:39] Speaker 1: I bet Sono is going to count count that as. [4:19:42] Speaker 2: Their weekly tithe. I bet you're right. [4:19:44] Speaker 1: Actually, if I had to guess, if I know anything [4:19:48] Speaker 1: about Christians, that is money given to God. But to [4:19:51] Speaker 1: be fair, okay, to be fair, right, just be upfair, okay. [4:19:55] Speaker 1: If God never says you have to give money to [4:19:57] Speaker 1: the church, okay. If you're going to give a tie, [4:20:00] Speaker 1: give it to someone poor, give it to someone you [4:20:02] Speaker 1: don't like. Why should I be forced to pay this [4:20:05] Speaker 1: guy to drive another Mercedes Benz, I actually would agree [4:20:09] Speaker 1: with so and no. If so if that was Sono's [4:20:11] Speaker 1: tithe money and he gave it to preach to everybody [4:20:14] Speaker 1: here rather than to his pastor, that's probably a good [4:20:17] Speaker 1: use of funds. I mean for us, not for him. [4:20:21] Speaker 1: He's still wasting his money a Scott, thank you for [4:20:24] Speaker 1: the supertit says for a great, profound and hilarious Aish [4:20:29] Speaker 1: rock song. Check out Oh God, Syphilis in Religion by [4:20:34] Speaker 1: Graham Parker and Jesus was a dradal Spinner by Joel [4:20:38] Speaker 1: the Buell. Let me put this in. There's so many [4:20:43] Speaker 1: songs out there I don't know about, but Syphilis in [4:20:49] Speaker 1: Religion sounds like a banger, literally and figuratively. [4:20:52] Speaker 2: I'm down for that. [4:20:53] Speaker 1: Scott, thanks for letting me know it's in the browser. [4:20:55] Speaker 1: Out plate here later and Yoda. Great to see your friend. [4:20:59] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the twenty dollars. Super chat [4:21:01] Speaker 1: is a huge w he says, broke out the cheat [4:21:03] Speaker 1: sheet the other day, had a nice talk about God [4:21:06] Speaker 1: and grape. He never did that. Where did you read. [4:21:10] Speaker 2: Such a thing? [4:21:11] Speaker 1: Thanks for the cheat sheet. I pulled up multiple references [4:21:14] Speaker 1: rock Hard for Doug Sell, the Pretzel Shop shirt, Oh shit. [4:21:18] Speaker 2: Hold on, I got to write that down too. Got [4:21:21] Speaker 2: to write that down to. [4:21:25] Speaker 1: The Pretzel Shop shirt, and also going to do a [4:21:29] Speaker 1: shirt for Let's try that again. Sorry I'm late on [4:21:34] Speaker 1: these guys, I apologize. I just summers are crazy for me. [4:21:39] Speaker 1: My schedule over summer is always crazy. Design says, so no, Well, [4:21:44] Speaker 1: I gave, I gave tie THEE. I gave to THEE. [4:21:49] Speaker 1: I gave tithe to a group of atheists to repeat [4:21:53] Speaker 1: my words, and they should all be here any minute. Shirt. [4:21:58] Speaker 1: Could you imagine he's probably going to go to his [4:22:01] Speaker 1: church friends and say what he did. He's going to [4:22:04] Speaker 1: go and say, listen, I sent all these super chat [4:22:07] Speaker 1: and I witnessed all these heathen atheists. Ain't I like [4:22:11] Speaker 1: making Jesus proud? And a lot of them are patim [4:22:15] Speaker 1: Oh look at look at you ministering to the atheists. [4:22:17] Speaker 1: I'm I'm sure you saved a bunch of them. And [4:22:20] Speaker 1: you know that's what you get is a big old [4:22:22] Speaker 1: circle jerk. Martin says, is there any argument to make [4:22:25] Speaker 1: for the Jewish God to be female? Then see Christian [4:22:29] Speaker 1: squirm about yeah Timothy two twelve. Hm, well kind of, [4:22:37] Speaker 1: because if you believe that the spirit of God is [4:22:42] Speaker 1: fundamental to God, well, it's feminine. Ruach in Hebrew is [4:22:48] Speaker 1: a feminine ending and yahweh, yahweh, it's not I don't [4:22:58] Speaker 1: want to say it's a femine an ending because it's [4:23:01] Speaker 1: a verb, and there are such things as feminine masculine [4:23:06] Speaker 1: verb endings. But shit, now I got a I don't [4:23:13] Speaker 1: believe that that really fits the verb paradigms that I'm [4:23:18] Speaker 1: I'm looking for in Hebrewah. Yeah, I don't know of [4:23:26] Speaker 1: a verb paradigm that fits that ending of yahweh. So [4:23:33] Speaker 1: that being said, at least we can say that the [4:23:36] Speaker 1: spirit has a feminine ending. We can assume that the [4:23:39] Speaker 1: Father is masculine, and therefore God may not be feminine [4:23:44] Speaker 1: necessarily or a female necessarily, but his or it is [4:23:48] Speaker 1: trans So to be sure, Martin, the God of the [4:23:51] Speaker 1: Bible appears to be they them transsexual. Seems to be [4:23:57] Speaker 1: the case anyways, good question. I appreciate that, and also, Stinky, [4:24:04] Speaker 1: thank you for the two dour super thanks and Misavros, [4:24:09] Speaker 1: thank you for the six sixty six al Nero says, [4:24:12] Speaker 1: the Trinity Father in the sun and the hokey ghost watches. [4:24:18] Speaker 1: Did I get that right? That's basically it. Remember God [4:24:23] Speaker 1: had to knock up his own mother to give birth [4:24:25] Speaker 1: to himself, which means not only is God kind of [4:24:28] Speaker 1: trans he's also incest. The God of the Bible is [4:24:31] Speaker 1: a trans incest weird metaphysical entity. Hey, thank you for [4:24:37] Speaker 1: the nineteen dollars ninety nine dollars ninety nine cent super chat. [4:24:40] Speaker 1: I super appreciate that, says, what if someone had thrown [4:24:43] Speaker 1: Doug at me when I spectacularly failed my virginity test. [4:24:49] Speaker 1: Love these debates you're doing Doug's Thank you, kay, I [4:24:52] Speaker 1: appreciate that. Listen. That's the hard part of about the Bible, [4:24:56] Speaker 1: and that's how you know the Bible is not true [4:24:57] Speaker 1: because the God of the Bible wants to use Dug [4:25:00] Speaker 1: in the most profoundly unholy way possible. The Bible God [4:25:04] Speaker 1: wants you to take Doug and injure people, but Doug [4:25:08] Speaker 1: would never do that. Doug doesn't want anyone to be injured, [4:25:11] Speaker 1: certainly not on Doug's account. So praise Doug and Sharon [4:25:14] Speaker 1: Stone for being good wherein God is not although the [4:25:20] Speaker 1: Bible God that is, I am the cheese. Thank you [4:25:22] Speaker 1: for the nine and and nine says. In Jewish tradition, [4:25:24] Speaker 1: the righteous come out of the graves at the Mount [4:25:27] Speaker 1: of Olives and to send to Jerusalem at the arrival [4:25:30] Speaker 1: of the Mischiach. Rabbis believe in a physical out of [4:25:35] Speaker 1: the grave resurrection of the dead. Yes, that's what we [4:25:37] Speaker 1: read from Daniel chapter nine, because it is in fact [4:25:40] Speaker 1: a physical resurrection, it's not a spiritual one. [4:25:45] Speaker 2: Paul was wrong. Paul was completely wrong. [4:25:47] Speaker 1: You don't receive new bodies, your old body is renewed. [4:25:51] Speaker 1: And Johnny Cake thank you for the nine and nine, [4:25:53] Speaker 1: says his thoughts on Joseph Attwell Caesar's Messiah hypothesis that [4:25:57] Speaker 1: Gospels are written to predict that Titus Flavius was the [4:26:01] Speaker 1: son of Man temple was destroyed by Titus Flavius. In reality, [4:26:05] Speaker 1: I don't believe in the Caesars Mathiah Messiahs theory. Even [4:26:09] Speaker 1: if Jesus was fiction, I don't think it was made [4:26:11] Speaker 1: up by the Romans. There's way too much anti Roman [4:26:16] Speaker 1: propaganda in there, and there's way too much stuff that [4:26:18] Speaker 1: would be dangerous to the Romans. There's way too much [4:26:21] Speaker 1: stuff that would only work if it came from cult [4:26:25] Speaker 1: followers of Jesus, not from the Romans. Plus, I've watched [4:26:29] Speaker 1: the documentary Caesar's Messiah. It just makes a lot of [4:26:32] Speaker 1: blunders about ancient Rome. It says things that are just [4:26:35] Speaker 1: fundamentally not true of ancient Rome. And so I just [4:26:38] Speaker 1: don't think it's really well researched. And Joseph Atwell isn't [4:26:41] Speaker 1: a historian or biblical scholar of any nature, which I [4:26:45] Speaker 1: think is why it fails, because he just isn't in tune, [4:26:49] Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And these are hard things [4:26:51] Speaker 1: to explain to people, but I kind of explain it [4:26:53] Speaker 1: like this, like if you're a medical doctor, you can [4:26:56] Speaker 1: tell the difference immediately between somebody who has a medical [4:27:01] Speaker 1: degree and somebody who like practices herbs, you know, because [4:27:05] Speaker 1: he got the training. Sometimes it's hard to articulate immediately, [4:27:08] Speaker 1: but you can just tell right off the bat the [4:27:11] Speaker 1: stuff by like Joseph Atwell and others. You could, like [4:27:14] Speaker 1: anyone who's got an education in this particular field can [4:27:18] Speaker 1: just tell immediately that this guy doesn't have a proper education. [4:27:21] Speaker 1: It's just obvious with a lot of statements that he says. [4:27:25] Speaker 1: Roger Winzel says, confusion abounds at this sweet smell of [4:27:28] Speaker 1: the cooked It doesn't it always? Roger, thank you so [4:27:32] Speaker 1: much for the twenty dollars superchat. [4:27:34] Speaker 2: It really does. [4:27:35] Speaker 1: Like the theist will get up here and they'll kind [4:27:37] Speaker 1: of get put to the coals and then rather than [4:27:41] Speaker 1: conceding an argument. They just like they appear to be [4:27:44] Speaker 1: concussed in reality, they should just concede. Riy, thank it [4:27:48] Speaker 1: for the ten dollars. Superjet, says. Jesus also contradicts himself [4:27:51] Speaker 1: in John three sixteen sixteen through eighteen. Yes he does it, [4:27:55] Speaker 1: says salvation belief. But in Matthew seven twenty one through [4:27:58] Speaker 1: twenty three he says it's by works. Yes, he absolutely does. [4:28:03] Speaker 1: Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will [4:28:05] Speaker 1: be saved, except they won't be They will not bryce. [4:28:08] Speaker 1: You absolutely nailed it, and that is on the cheat sheet. Actually, [4:28:12] Speaker 1: the other thing too, that Jesus really screws up, just [4:28:17] Speaker 1: absolutely screws up, is he literally says no man has [4:28:21] Speaker 1: seen God at any time. But if Jesus literally is [4:28:25] Speaker 1: God one hundred percent God, then that statement's literally false. Literally, [4:28:32] Speaker 1: if Jesus is one hundred percent God according to the Trinity, [4:28:36] Speaker 1: then Jesus is lying when he says no man has [4:28:38] Speaker 1: ever seen God at any time. They were literally looking [4:28:42] Speaker 1: at the supposed God as he was uttering that lie [4:28:46] Speaker 1: ge Hey, great name, thank you for the nine to [4:28:49] Speaker 1: nine Supertest, says Paul was not writing systematic theology. They [4:28:52] Speaker 1: were letters to specific congregations at different times, his views change, [4:28:56] Speaker 1: or he just shifted arguments to suit the topic, like [4:28:59] Speaker 1: apologists agreed. Thank you so much, Gez. So this is [4:29:03] Speaker 1: the point Paul's theology was developing over time. He said [4:29:09] Speaker 1: shit to the Thessalonian Church that he probably wouldn't say [4:29:13] Speaker 1: to like during his later letters, even like in Second [4:29:17] Speaker 1: Corinthians or Ephesians or the Book of Romans, like his [4:29:22] Speaker 1: last letter right because he was still figuring it out. [4:29:25] Speaker 1: He himself didn't even know. And once you write the letter, [4:29:29] Speaker 1: you can't take it back. It's already out there. Double donkey, [4:29:32] Speaker 1: sir for a great name, think it for the six [4:29:34] Speaker 1: sixty six says, when is the pologia collab dropping? [4:29:39] Speaker 2: I don't know yet. [4:29:40] Speaker 1: We've both kind of dropped the ball on this summer's [4:29:41] Speaker 1: hard guys, says, would love to hear you guys talk [4:29:44] Speaker 1: hallucination verse impostor as better explanation for the Jesus resurrection, [4:29:49] Speaker 1: and listen, I actually found another ancient reference to bolster [4:29:53] Speaker 1: his argument of hallucination as opposed to impostor. The quotation [4:29:59] Speaker 1: come from Julian the Heretic, and he writes that the [4:30:07] Speaker 1: early Christians were going to the tombs of dead people [4:30:13] Speaker 1: waiting for hallucinations like they were expecting them, and that [4:30:17] Speaker 1: this was actually a false teaching within Judaism. This was [4:30:20] Speaker 1: something you weren't supposed to do. And so it seems [4:30:23] Speaker 1: to be that there might be a tradition within Judaism [4:30:26] Speaker 1: that people, or early Christianity, rather that people were expecting visions, [4:30:31] Speaker 1: which you would expect if Paul had a vision of [4:30:34] Speaker 1: Jesus and other people were expecting visions of Jesus or [4:30:37] Speaker 1: visions of other loved ones. Why wouldn't we expect also [4:30:41] Speaker 1: that maybe the appearance of Jesus to one or two [4:30:44] Speaker 1: of the disciples was in fact just a vision, not [4:30:47] Speaker 1: even an impostor. Right, But I think the impostor theory [4:30:52] Speaker 1: does a better job of explaining what we find in gospels, [4:30:55] Speaker 1: especially a Gospel of John, and I think in Luke [4:30:58] Speaker 1: or Matthew where Jesus appears and no one recognizes the asshole, like, [4:31:02] Speaker 1: who's is this the fucking gardener? But yeah, you would [4:31:05] Speaker 1: expect that if in fact there was an impostor. Tim [4:31:08] Speaker 1: thank you for the super chest says, if Jesus is [4:31:10] Speaker 1: glory and his hands have holes, are they wink wink. Yes, [4:31:16] Speaker 1: Jesus himself does in fact have glory holes. Tim excellent [4:31:21] Speaker 1: plan words and I agree with you. I agree with [4:31:24] Speaker 1: you on that one. Matt Vernon, thank you for the [4:31:26] Speaker 1: ten dollars Canadian Chests says, if you haven't watched Tim [4:31:30] Speaker 1: Manchin's live performance of Thank You God, it's on YouTube, [4:31:33] Speaker 1: then you're making baby Doug cry. Don't make baby Doug cry. [4:31:37] Speaker 1: I finally did watch it. So many people, so many [4:31:41] Speaker 1: people super chatted to watch Tim Manchin. I finally got [4:31:44] Speaker 1: around this week to watching a bunch of Tim or [4:31:47] Speaker 1: mention Tim mintionin and he's really funny. How do you [4:31:50] Speaker 1: recommend Papa No No, thank you for the fine hour. [4:31:54] Speaker 1: Supertest says Wika and atheists are close allies and are harmless. Actually, [4:31:59] Speaker 1: I mean yeah, the Wickans and the atheists do run [4:32:02] Speaker 1: around in a lot of the same circles. And the [4:32:04] Speaker 1: reason why is because it's kind of harmless. Same thing [4:32:07] Speaker 1: with like Buddhists. I don't give it a damn about [4:32:08] Speaker 1: Buddhist They're not out here hurting anybody with their religion. [4:32:12] Speaker 1: What the fuck do I care for? [4:32:13] Speaker 2: Right? [4:32:14] Speaker 1: So, like, yeah, if your religion is harmless, I don't care. [4:32:16] Speaker 1: You can have it. [4:32:18] Speaker 2: Kyle says. [4:32:18] Speaker 1: Alchemists believe that urine could be a source for creating [4:32:22] Speaker 1: gold or other valuable substances like a philosopher's stone. Yeah, [4:32:26] Speaker 1: alchemy is crazy, absolutely crazy. [4:32:30] Speaker 2: I get the idea. [4:32:31] Speaker 1: The idea is, if you make the right combination of ingredients, [4:32:34] Speaker 1: you know you'll create up. You'll create something new, a [4:32:37] Speaker 1: different molecular structure. But what you won't do is create [4:32:40] Speaker 1: like gold. [4:32:41] Speaker 2: Not gonna happen. [4:32:43] Speaker 1: Crucifix me says, tried alchemy. Now I sit like a filbro. [4:32:47] Speaker 1: Oh jeez, well, I hope you're okay. I hope that [4:32:52] Speaker 1: you didn't end up with crushed testicles, because now you're [4:32:55] Speaker 1: can't be entering into the congregation of yahweh if it [4:32:57] Speaker 1: fills out, it turns out to be true. His shadow, [4:33:00] Speaker 1: I think it for the six ninety nine says The [4:33:01] Speaker 1: day that believer comes in and says strong anthropic principle [4:33:05] Speaker 1: instead of fine tuning, you'll know they might understand the concept. Actually, Shadow, [4:33:10] Speaker 1: that's one hundred percent right. You can definitely tell the [4:33:14] Speaker 1: difference between someone who read like a philosophical argument and [4:33:18] Speaker 1: is trying to repeat it versu someone who has actually [4:33:21] Speaker 1: developed themselves a full on argument using scientific principles, because [4:33:27] Speaker 1: then they'll typically use scientific principles like the anthropic argument. [4:33:34] Speaker 1: Dustint says, I heard if you take a Bible code [4:33:37] Speaker 1: and multiply it by the genetic code equals contract code. [4:33:42] Speaker 1: Then if you take that and multiply that by Morse code, [4:33:44] Speaker 1: you get the Da Vinci code. [4:33:46] Speaker 2: Actually does it? I believe that. [4:33:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, if you take all these codes and add them [4:33:49] Speaker 1: up somehow, you'll end up in Morse code. And who's [4:33:53] Speaker 1: ever doing it is going to end up in like [4:33:58] Speaker 1: a nursing home soon because it's only like old, the [4:34:01] Speaker 1: geriatric Nebraska Steve type people who still believe in Bible codes. [4:34:06] Speaker 1: I feel like that was popular in the eighties, and [4:34:09] Speaker 1: thank Doug, it's not popular anymore. My goodness, I'm so [4:34:13] Speaker 1: glad that young people aren't getting in here giving us [4:34:16] Speaker 1: bs Bible code stuff that was debunked forty years ago. [4:34:20] Speaker 1: Mister Morpheus, Thank you for the ten that I was supertests. [4:34:22] Speaker 1: As Christians say, there's a God because the human body [4:34:25] Speaker 1: and life is complex. But simplicity reflects intelligence more than complexity, [4:34:29] Speaker 1: a principle shared across disciplines. It does actually in my [4:34:33] Speaker 1: training in both engineering and programming and whatnot. If you [4:34:37] Speaker 1: could do a design that did everything you needed to do, [4:34:44] Speaker 1: you would do it just that. You wouldn't add anything [4:34:46] Speaker 1: else to it. You wouldn't add superfluous things to the design. [4:34:50] Speaker 1: You only use what you need when you have a [4:34:53] Speaker 1: vestigial organs or non functional code or things like that. [4:34:58] Speaker 1: Now you're just over complicating the design. And the reality [4:35:01] Speaker 1: is the human design is full of over complications, a [4:35:04] Speaker 1: lot of them completely non value adding. Saint Brush says, [4:35:08] Speaker 1: ask this alchemy, mushroom guy, if one time's one equals [4:35:14] Speaker 1: I should I should start asking people basic math questions [4:35:17] Speaker 1: to see what they do Saint Brush and Cody says, [4:35:19] Speaker 1: I'm the exact thing. If I close my eyes, I [4:35:22] Speaker 1: see nothing. Yeah, Cody, it's a real thing. Millions of [4:35:24] Speaker 1: people suffer from it. Friend and Josh says, is this Terrence? [4:35:27] Speaker 1: How it sounded like Terren Toward? If I had to [4:35:31] Speaker 1: guess he was influenced by Darren Towder Howard and designed [4:35:35] Speaker 1: welcome back. Thank you so much for the additional supertestis [4:35:37] Speaker 1: hollowing out definitions to smuggle in preconceived beliefs pays poorly. [4:35:43] Speaker 1: That is kind of the thing, right, that's what it's like. So, [4:35:46] Speaker 1: you know, Sebastian Cole, known as pink Beard now always [4:35:49] Speaker 1: says that words are elastic, but I think words need [4:35:52] Speaker 1: to be elastic to believers because you need them to [4:35:54] Speaker 1: smuggle in concepts that normally you couldn't smuggle in, right, [4:35:59] Speaker 1: And so it's just one of those things you want [4:36:01] Speaker 1: to hide a concept into a word where it normally [4:36:04] Speaker 1: doesn't belong. You know. [4:36:06] Speaker 2: Kyle comeing in again, says, oh my god. [4:36:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, they had a guy where they split his brain [4:36:11] Speaker 1: intwo he tried to button his shirt and yet his [4:36:13] Speaker 1: other hand was trying to unbutton the shirt at the [4:36:15] Speaker 1: same time. [4:36:16] Speaker 2: That's it, Kyle. [4:36:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's part of the split brain experiments because once [4:36:21] Speaker 1: once your brain has split, you understand that your so [4:36:24] Speaker 1: called decision making experiences are coming from your brain. And [4:36:28] Speaker 1: when you split the brain, it turns out your two [4:36:30] Speaker 1: different hemispheres are making different decisions. Sometimes sometimes the decisions [4:36:35] Speaker 1: that they're making, operating independent from each other, don't agree [4:36:38] Speaker 1: with each other, so the brain contradicts itself. It's crazy. [4:36:42] Speaker 1: Hercules says, your last caller was definitely an uber driver. [4:36:46] Speaker 1: That might be the case that certainly could be the case, [4:36:49] Speaker 1: but we need uber drivers, you know what I mean, [4:36:52] Speaker 1: So power to them and Yoda, thank you for the [4:36:55] Speaker 1: ten hour super Chest says God knocked up his mother, [4:36:57] Speaker 1: that is the case, so that she could give birth [4:37:00] Speaker 1: to himself, indeed, so that he could sacrifice himself to [4:37:04] Speaker 1: himself to save us from the punishment that he created. [4:37:07] Speaker 2: Thanks. [4:37:07] Speaker 1: I guess it really is the most convoluted thing in [4:37:11] Speaker 1: the world. I remember, even as like a liberal believer, [4:37:16] Speaker 1: when I was in the faith, I read that meme, [4:37:18] Speaker 1: the very famous meme where Jesus is knocking at the [4:37:20] Speaker 1: door and he's like, let me in, and the guy [4:37:23] Speaker 1: on the other side of the door is like, why [4:37:24] Speaker 1: because of what I'm gonna do to you if you [4:37:26] Speaker 1: don't let me in. Like, oh shit, that is kind [4:37:28] Speaker 1: of the thing, right. God doesn't love you. He just [4:37:32] Speaker 1: wants you to do what he says, or will burn [4:37:34] Speaker 1: you in heme base Wards says, Jesus is coming. Everyone [4:37:37] Speaker 1: looked busy. Actually, this is the funny part. There's a [4:37:40] Speaker 1: lot of people in the Christian faith who literally would [4:37:43] Speaker 1: spend their time trying to calculate Jesus's return rather than [4:37:46] Speaker 1: doing his words. Saint Barnabas, says son of Fulghum. I'm [4:37:51] Speaker 1: an atheist and I would like to know how to [4:37:53] Speaker 1: find Jesus. Please use super chats to reply. I think [4:37:57] Speaker 1: we lost him, but I would love to hear and [4:37:59] Speaker 1: waste a bunch of super chat time and money explaining [4:38:02] Speaker 1: to atheists how to go to heaven, so then I [4:38:04] Speaker 1: could press alone with versus cranky old Cubert. Thank you [4:38:08] Speaker 1: so much for being here, Frank, great to see it, [4:38:09] Speaker 1: says more DZ. More work in the yard today. I'm [4:38:13] Speaker 1: busting up concrete. That's real work. Actually, that's man's work. Shit, No, [4:38:17] Speaker 1: that's misogynistic. That's real work. That's hard work. Women do [4:38:21] Speaker 1: hard work too. I apologize for that. It's my fault. [4:38:24] Speaker 1: Sometimes I say things that are still stuck in my [4:38:27] Speaker 1: vocabulary that shouldn't be there. Guys, we're all learning. It's [4:38:31] Speaker 1: a process. It's a process. Today's guests are lending me [4:38:34] Speaker 1: righteous strength for my tasks. Nice cooking justin Hey, shit, [4:38:38] Speaker 1: thank you for being here. I appreciate the superchat and listen. [4:38:42] Speaker 1: Best of luck on breaking up concrete. I've done my [4:38:46] Speaker 1: fair share of breaking up concrete with sledgehammers. [4:38:50] Speaker 2: It can be fun. [4:38:52] Speaker 1: Just wear safety glasses. Don't get your eye like shot [4:38:55] Speaker 1: out by a piece of rogue concrete that you hit. [4:38:58] Speaker 1: Wear safety glasses, friends, And Carlos says, so thank you [4:39:04] Speaker 1: for your tithes of Doug tithes. Doug appreciates your tithes [4:39:08] Speaker 1: and offerings, he really does. And Peter says, tomorrow commences [4:39:12] Speaker 1: the son gofund me. Had fucking imagine a guy up [4:39:17] Speaker 1: here spending all of his money. [4:39:20] Speaker 2: And tomorrow he's got to go fund me. He spend [4:39:22] Speaker 2: all of his money on. [4:39:23] Speaker 1: Missionary work trying to convert atheists, and GP says, silly, [4:39:28] Speaker 1: theis Christianity spread because Constantine won a civil war of ambition? [4:39:32] Speaker 2: He really did. [4:39:33] Speaker 1: Dude didn't convert until his deathbed. We have grifters. We [4:39:37] Speaker 1: had grifters back then. Yeah, his by all accounts, his [4:39:40] Speaker 1: mother seems to have been a believer, but Constantine not [4:39:42] Speaker 1: so much. Constantine just wanted to make his mom happy [4:39:45] Speaker 1: and keep the country. Try to prevent future infighting, you [4:39:50] Speaker 1: know what I mean, And space Lord says, if if [4:39:53] Speaker 1: I were Peter, I'd write a lot more about how [4:39:56] Speaker 1: me and Jesus were BFFs. That's not what we have [4:39:59] Speaker 1: it In first and second Peter. So that's the craziest thing, right, [4:40:02] Speaker 1: Peter literally wrote a letter, theoretically two letters. There's literally [4:40:07] Speaker 1: there's no inside information. We don't learn anything. We don't [4:40:12] Speaker 1: learn a single fucking thing about Peter and Jesus from. [4:40:15] Speaker 2: The letters of Peter. That's crazy. [4:40:19] Speaker 1: The one book in the Bible, right that, if it's [4:40:22] Speaker 1: from Peter, we should be learning something new about Jesus [4:40:25] Speaker 1: and Peter and the relationship and things that they did. [4:40:28] Speaker 1: And it's just not there. It's just not there. How [4:40:33] Speaker 1: how is there nothing in first and second Peter that [4:40:36] Speaker 1: was like, well, Jesus and I this one day. [4:40:39] Speaker 2: That's crazy. [4:40:40] Speaker 1: And it opens unlike the Gospels, it opens with the [4:40:45] Speaker 1: character Peter an apostle of Jesus Christ. Well, yeah, why [4:40:50] Speaker 1: didn't you tell us a whole bunch of new information [4:40:52] Speaker 1: that we didn't know yet. It's almost like Peter was [4:40:55] Speaker 1: not being written by Peter, but you know, by somebody [4:40:59] Speaker 1: pretending to be Peter. Gary says, sending you a tiny [4:41:03] Speaker 1: tithe for Doug love your work. Well, thank you, not [4:41:06] Speaker 1: Gary Gray, thank you Gray, I really appreciate that. And listen, [4:41:10] Speaker 1: any amount helps to support the channel, all the members, [4:41:13] Speaker 1: all the gifts, all the likes, chats, and playbacks, all [4:41:16] Speaker 1: of them help to support the channel and the mission. [4:41:20] Speaker 1: S Martik says, the conundrum caller reminded me of clease [4:41:25] Speaker 1: in John Cleith. Isn't his name John clees In Monty [4:41:29] Speaker 1: Python's argument sketch. Shit, I haven't seen that, and fore [4:41:40] Speaker 1: I'm gonna pull it up and listen to it later. [4:41:41] Speaker 1: Though it's been a long minute. But if guys, if [4:41:44] Speaker 1: you don't know about the Monty Python sketches, if you [4:41:48] Speaker 1: only know about Monty Python movies, man, you're missing out. [4:41:52] Speaker 1: Monty Python's sketches are really good. Although I don't know [4:41:56] Speaker 1: if I care about the Ministry of funny Walking or [4:42:00] Speaker 1: whatever they call it. That wasn't my favorite sketch, mind [4:42:03] Speaker 1: Forge Manacles. Thank you for the super jack. Good to [4:42:06] Speaker 1: see us. Since Protestants are weird, I knew a Baptist [4:42:08] Speaker 1: pastor as a kid who claimed Jews are still secretly [4:42:12] Speaker 1: sacrificing animals in vain for the remission of sins. Oh, [4:42:18] Speaker 1: I don't know of any I do know there's like [4:42:21] Speaker 1: a sect of the Samaritans, a very tiny sect of [4:42:25] Speaker 1: the Samaritans that actually idolized John the baptistill that participate [4:42:29] Speaker 1: in some sacrifices but not much. It's crazy what lies [4:42:33] Speaker 1: pastors will tell because no one checks them on it. [4:42:36] Speaker 1: Their congregation is not questioning. Right when a pastor says something, [4:42:40] Speaker 1: very few people in that congregation will ever fact check [4:42:43] Speaker 1: that pastor. Most people just accept it. They have faith [4:42:47] Speaker 1: that the pastor knows what he's talking about or what [4:42:49] Speaker 1: she's talking about, and typically they don't mind. Forge coming [4:42:53] Speaker 1: in Again says heaven is invisible Christian logic. Yeah, I [4:42:57] Speaker 1: know it's invisible. You can't see it. They're up there [4:42:59] Speaker 1: right Elijah is up there right now, floating around in [4:43:02] Speaker 1: Heaven on his fiery chariot. It's flaming, but they're spiritual flames. [4:43:07] Speaker 1: That's why you can't see him. A GP, come in [4:43:10] Speaker 1: in again, Thank you so much for the ten hour [4:43:11] Speaker 1: super Chest says, hate to defend religion, but Protestant draw [4:43:15] Speaker 1: man Catholics the same way believers draw man atheists. I agree. [4:43:19] Speaker 1: They think venerate means worship for example, like come on, [4:43:23] Speaker 1: read a book on occasion please. This to me troubles me. Okay, [4:43:27] Speaker 1: So I never considered myself a Catholic, but I had [4:43:31] Speaker 1: twelve years of Catholic schooling. Right, So when I really [4:43:35] Speaker 1: became like what you call a born again Christian, I [4:43:38] Speaker 1: was weird Like I was weirded out by how much [4:43:43] Speaker 1: Protestant has disliked Catholics, but also how much they just [4:43:47] Speaker 1: didn't know, like how much what they thought they knew [4:43:50] Speaker 1: about Catholics were just bullshit. They didn't know anything about [4:43:53] Speaker 1: what Catholics believe. It was like, just like you said, [4:43:58] Speaker 1: how when you're a Christian people tell you what atheists [4:44:01] Speaker 1: are like and then you meet when you're like, the [4:44:02] Speaker 1: fuck like nothing what I thought it was going to [4:44:05] Speaker 1: be like, But do you know what are you talking about? [4:44:07] Speaker 2: Thank you for the. [4:44:08] Speaker 1: Ten hour superchat, friend, says new member from New Hampshire. Well, [4:44:11] Speaker 1: hell yeah, welcome to the crack and Crew. Granite starter stater, [4:44:16] Speaker 1: granite stater rock hard for Doug. Well listen, we are [4:44:21] Speaker 1: glad that you were granite rock hard for Doug big [4:44:25] Speaker 1: w Steve super appreciate that and welcome to the crew, [4:44:28] Speaker 1: my friend, welcome in and also optimist rhymes. Still love [4:44:32] Speaker 1: the name because if we knew one hundred percent that [4:44:35] Speaker 1: Jesus existed and that the shroud was actually on his body, [4:44:39] Speaker 1: would that raise the probability that a miracle actually happened. [4:44:43] Speaker 1: I don't think so. [4:44:45] Speaker 2: So this is a good question, optimist. [4:44:47] Speaker 1: If we found a way to prove and I don't [4:44:49] Speaker 1: think there is a way, but if we found a [4:44:50] Speaker 1: way to prove that Jesus was literally crucified and that [4:44:54] Speaker 1: was his shroud, the only thing would ever proved is [4:44:57] Speaker 1: that somebody put Jesus in a shroud after he died. [4:45:01] Speaker 1: That's it. Doesn't do anything for the resurrection, doesn't do [4:45:04] Speaker 1: anything for the magic tricks. God damn, says Doug turned [4:45:09] Speaker 1: water into lava just for fun. Hell, yeah, that's the [4:45:12] Speaker 1: miracles of Doug. Listen, Jesus didn't turn any water into wine. [4:45:15] Speaker 1: In fact, I mean, if he did, he was only [4:45:18] Speaker 1: did it because Dionysus did it before him. But Doug, [4:45:21] Speaker 1: Doug turns rock into lava. [4:45:24] Speaker 2: Take that in, Take that in. [4:45:26] Speaker 1: Nika, thank you so much for the five dollars super chest, [4:45:29] Speaker 1: says rock Hard for Doug questions for m shit, He's gone. [4:45:31] Speaker 1: I apologize. I couldn't get to the super chest sooner. [4:45:35] Speaker 1: Do you dream visually? [4:45:36] Speaker 5: He does not. [4:45:37] Speaker 1: I have affantagia and I dream vividly. I love you [4:45:41] Speaker 1: justin I added the I love you justin keep up [4:45:44] Speaker 1: the great work. Well, thank you, Nika. I appreciate that [4:45:47] Speaker 1: I've heard EM say before M's I apologize if I [4:45:50] Speaker 1: misquoting you that he doesn't dream, But yeah, it's interesting too, [4:45:55] Speaker 1: because like the brain manifests different ways at different times, [4:46:00] Speaker 1: which is really strange because I know, like my brother, [4:46:03] Speaker 1: when he reads, he doesn't hear any of the words [4:46:05] Speaker 1: audibly in his head like I do, but he does [4:46:07] Speaker 1: hear words when he dreams. So like, the brain is [4:46:10] Speaker 1: a weird playground, my friends, it's a very weird place, [4:46:14] Speaker 1: not as weird as Freud thinking that Penis MV is [4:46:17] Speaker 1: real real, It's not that weird, Burnerd. Thank you for [4:46:21] Speaker 1: the five hour superjet, though, says M's mic sounds so good. [4:46:24] Speaker 1: Have always been able to understand him, But it's chef [4:46:27] Speaker 1: kiss crisp. [4:46:28] Speaker 2: Now it's much better. [4:46:30] Speaker 1: The problem is sometimes Ems isn't at a place where [4:46:33] Speaker 1: his microphone is right. He can't always get to his microphone, [4:46:36] Speaker 1: so sometimes he just has to use like his phone right, [4:46:39] Speaker 1: and then it just sounds like he's talking to his phone. [4:46:42] Speaker 1: But Ems is just a gem. He's an absolute fucking gem. [4:46:47] Speaker 1: And Noah's Lyons eight babies dead babies on the arc. [4:46:51] Speaker 1: Great to see you today. Thank you for the super [4:46:53] Speaker 1: Jest says, late because priority, late because prioritized for dedicating [4:47:00] Speaker 1: for new art. [4:47:02] Speaker 2: I love it. [4:47:03] Speaker 1: I listen, I love it. Do all the fornication you [4:47:06] Speaker 1: can friend while you're alive. In fact, the Bible got [4:47:09] Speaker 1: one thing right. Eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow [4:47:12] Speaker 1: we may die. What time you have here, friends, have [4:47:15] Speaker 1: a good time. Burner says, God receives all credit and [4:47:18] Speaker 1: avoids any blame. That is the Christian method, and it's [4:47:22] Speaker 1: true in the Bible, almost true. In the Bible. God [4:47:25] Speaker 1: does take credit for in Isaiah forty five seven and [4:47:30] Speaker 1: also in Amos chapter three, he says, does not calamity [4:47:34] Speaker 1: fall into town and not come from the Lord, because yeah, [4:47:39] Speaker 1: all calamities do come from God. Riz, thank you for [4:47:42] Speaker 1: the two dollars super things. [4:47:43] Speaker 2: I appreciate that. [4:47:45] Speaker 1: And s Martic come in in again. Thank you so [4:47:47] Speaker 1: much for the sixty five se Ca says, conundrum and [4:47:50] Speaker 1: argument sketch. [4:47:52] Speaker 2: I thought of caller just often. [4:47:55] Speaker 1: I thought of caller often just replied with lazy contrary [4:47:59] Speaker 1: points like no it isn't, no it is. I'll play [4:48:03] Speaker 1: the argument. Clinic sketch here before we end the stream, [4:48:07] Speaker 1: I got to grab three more super chests, and I'm [4:48:10] Speaker 1: going to play the sketch for everyone who hasn't heard it. [4:48:13] Speaker 1: Dexter's Lab, but thank you for the supertest, says kidney [4:48:15] Speaker 1: stones equals alchemy. Philbros Stone. Kidney stones are not from DOUG. [4:48:22] Speaker 1: It's an evil manifestation by a bad eating habits or [4:48:27] Speaker 1: disease kind of says. So if I dream almost all [4:48:30] Speaker 1: the time and lucid dreams does, does must mean I [4:48:34] Speaker 1: got lots of natural d MT. Well kind of like [4:48:38] Speaker 1: so if your body is releasing a hormone that causes [4:48:41] Speaker 1: you to have vivid dreams, it does mean that your [4:48:44] Speaker 1: body typically is producing more melowtonin. I believe in d [4:48:49] Speaker 1: MT and see design. Thank you for the five hour knuckbucks. [4:48:54] Speaker 1: As Orthodox and Catholics claim to be the original true [4:48:58] Speaker 1: Church Orthodoxy through accession, traditions and merit, didn't Orthodoxy change [4:49:03] Speaker 1: all the time. Kind of we don't have an original Orthodoxy. [4:49:09] Speaker 2: That's the problem. [4:49:10] Speaker 1: Orthodoxy developed later and then they superimposed it on the [4:49:15] Speaker 1: early Church. The early Church did not have an orthodox position. [4:49:19] Speaker 1: Orthodox position developed after the early Church got tired of [4:49:23] Speaker 1: disagreeing with each other, and Tim says, if the communion [4:49:27] Speaker 1: is the flesh and blood of Christ, how many actual [4:49:30] Speaker 1: participants till you've eaten a full Messiah? [4:49:32] Speaker 2: Good question? [4:49:33] Speaker 1: Participations? Yeah? How many of those wafers do you have [4:49:39] Speaker 1: to eat before you've put all of Jesus's body in [4:49:41] Speaker 1: your mouth? [4:49:41] Speaker 2: I don't know, but I'm sure it's a lot. I [4:49:45] Speaker 2: certainly provided. [4:49:46] Speaker 1: I prefer the bread, like the real actual bread. The wafers, [4:49:50] Speaker 1: they're okay. I do need to buy some and eat [4:49:53] Speaker 1: some on stream for fun, though. I did finally buy [4:49:55] Speaker 1: some soft pretzels, eat one stream. I got two more [4:49:58] Speaker 1: superchatched friends, I got a I gotta I gotta end it. [4:50:00] Speaker 1: Don't send I love you. Don't send any more super [4:50:03] Speaker 1: test because I want to play the sketch. I think [4:50:04] Speaker 1: you like the sketch. Thateful says, when THEUS say they [4:50:09] Speaker 1: know Jesus, do they mean that in the biblical sense? [4:50:13] Speaker 1: Explains the obsession with foreskins? [4:50:15] Speaker 2: What a dream? [4:50:16] Speaker 1: Love your content? Well, thank you so much, Stateful. Yeah, [4:50:19] Speaker 1: if they really know God. According to the Bible, knowing [4:50:22] Speaker 1: God in the Biblical sense means you know. So if [4:50:26] Speaker 1: they do know God, it does explain some why everyone's [4:50:30] Speaker 1: always obsessed with foreskins and touching the genitalia and perilousas. [4:50:36] Speaker 1: Have you ever read Yung's answer to Job? If so, [4:50:39] Speaker 1: what do you think of his take? I don't really [4:50:41] Speaker 1: read any I haven't read any Yung, but I don't [4:50:47] Speaker 1: read psychology in general. First of all, I think psychology [4:50:50] Speaker 1: is amazingly interesting. It's just not high on my reading list. [4:50:55] Speaker 1: Yung I certainly would find interesting if I got around [4:50:58] Speaker 1: to reading them, But to me, I just think most [4:51:01] Speaker 1: of it's nonsense. So I don't know his answers to Job. [4:51:05] Speaker 1: If I had to guess, he probably thinks Job is [4:51:07] Speaker 1: an archetype and not a literal human being. [4:51:11] Speaker 7: You know what I mean. [4:51:13] Speaker 1: Let me grab the skit. This is the money Python [4:51:16] Speaker 1: argument skit. One second. [4:51:19] Speaker 4: Yes, I'd like to have an argument, please me? All right, Yes, [4:51:27] Speaker 4: I'd like to have an argument. Please? Have you been [4:51:31] Speaker 4: here before? [4:51:31] Speaker 1: No? [4:51:32] Speaker 4: This is my first time. Do you want to have [4:51:35] Speaker 4: the full argument? [4:51:36] Speaker 7: Or were you thinking of taking a course? [4:51:38] Speaker 6: Well? [4:51:39] Speaker 4: What would be the cost? [4:51:40] Speaker 1: Well, yes, five, it's one pounds for a five minute argument, [4:51:43] Speaker 1: but only eight pounds. [4:51:44] Speaker 4: For a course of ten. Well, I think it's probably [4:51:47] Speaker 4: best if I start with the one and see how [4:51:49] Speaker 4: it goes from there. Okay, fine, I'll see you three. [4:51:51] Speaker 2: At the moment. [4:51:53] Speaker 4: Mister Tobak his free, but he's a little bit conciliatory. Yes, sir, [4:51:58] Speaker 4: try mister Barnard twelve. Thank you. Is this the right [4:52:05] Speaker 4: going for an argument? I've told you once the isn't. Well, [4:52:11] Speaker 4: just now, No, you didn't this I did didn't. [4:52:13] Speaker 6: I didn't. [4:52:14] Speaker 4: I tell you you did not. Sorry is this a [4:52:17] Speaker 4: five minute argument or the full half hour? Oh oh, [4:52:21] Speaker 4: just a five minute one, thank you. Anyway, I did, [4:52:27] Speaker 4: you most certainly did not. [4:52:28] Speaker 2: Let's give one thing. [4:52:29] Speaker 1: Quite. [4:52:30] Speaker 4: I most definitely told you you did not. Yes, I did, [4:52:32] Speaker 4: we did not. Yes, I did didn't. Yes I didn't. No, [4:52:35] Speaker 4: this is an argument, Yes it is. [4:52:37] Speaker 6: No, it isn't. [4:52:38] Speaker 4: It just contradiction. [4:52:39] Speaker 6: No it isn't. [4:52:39] Speaker 2: Yes it is, it is not it. [4:52:42] Speaker 4: You just contradicted me. [4:52:43] Speaker 3: No I didn't. [4:52:43] Speaker 4: Oh you did? [4:52:44] Speaker 2: No? [4:52:44] Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, no you didn't know. No nonsense. [4:52:47] Speaker 4: Oh look this is futile. [4:52:49] Speaker 6: No, it isn't. [4:52:49] Speaker 4: Gave me I have a good argument. [4:52:51] Speaker 6: You didn't. [4:52:51] Speaker 4: You gave me for an argument. One argument is not [4:52:53] Speaker 4: the same as contradiction can be. No, I can't. An [4:52:56] Speaker 4: argument is a collected series of statements to establish a [4:52:58] Speaker 4: definite proposition. [4:53:00] Speaker 6: Now it isn't. [4:53:00] Speaker 4: Yes it did is it didn't. Just contradiction. Look, if [4:53:03] Speaker 4: I argue with you, I must take up a country position. [4:53:06] Speaker 4: But he didn't just say no, it isn't. If it [4:53:07] Speaker 4: is no, it isn't argue with an intellectual process. Contradiction [4:53:12] Speaker 4: is just an automatic game saying of anything the other [4:53:14] Speaker 4: person said. [4:53:15] Speaker 2: Now it isn't. [4:53:16] Speaker 4: Yes, it is not at all. No, Look thank you, [4:53:23] Speaker 4: what that's it? [4:53:25] Speaker 2: Morning? [4:53:27] Speaker 4: I was just getting interested. Sorry, the five minutes is up. [4:53:30] Speaker 4: That was never five minutes, just now, afraid it was? [4:53:32] Speaker 6: No, it wasn't. [4:53:34] Speaker 4: Sorry, I'm not now to argue anhim. What if you [4:53:38] Speaker 4: want me to go on arguing, I'll have to pay [4:53:39] Speaker 4: for another five minutes. But that was never five minutes? [4:53:42] Speaker 4: Just now, Oh come on, this is ridiculous. I'm no, sorry, [4:53:50] Speaker 4: but I told you I'm not annowed to argue and [4:53:52] Speaker 4: I should pay. Oh all right, there you are, okay, Well, [4:54:02] Speaker 4: well what that was never five minutes? [4:54:04] Speaker 2: Just now? [4:54:04] Speaker 4: John does not to argue it? Just pay? [4:54:06] Speaker 6: Oh just pay? [4:54:07] Speaker 1: I did. [4:54:11] Speaker 4: I don't argue about that? [4:54:13] Speaker 2: Sorry? [4:54:14] Speaker 4: Ah, well, if I didn't pay. Why are you arguing, [4:54:17] Speaker 4: Cutcham There you have is that if you're arguing, I [4:54:20] Speaker 4: lost of pain. Not necessarily it couldn't be arguing in [4:54:23] Speaker 4: my time. I bad enough of this. [4:54:27] Speaker 1: Now you have, Oh, shut up, plastic skit love it. [4:54:32] Speaker 1: I haven't heard that in years. All of those kits [4:54:35] Speaker 1: are are amazing. I absolutely love these kids. Now listen, [4:54:39] Speaker 1: I have to cut the stream, friends, but I got [4:54:42] Speaker 1: one last chat from our friend Carnage Asada with another [4:54:45] Speaker 1: good question. Thank you so much Carnage for the question. [4:54:48] Speaker 1: In the super chest says smash Mary or unalive cult [4:54:53] Speaker 1: edition Calvinism, Mormonism or Orthodoxy. All right, so I think [4:54:57] Speaker 1: what I'm gonna do is definitely un alive Calvinism. That [4:55:01] Speaker 1: shit doesn't need to exist. I'm probably going to smash [4:55:08] Speaker 1: Orthodoxy because they're crazy, and maybe Mary Mormonism because at [4:55:15] Speaker 1: least Mormonism is not all that fundamentalist and they're happy. [4:55:21] Speaker 1: They tend to be happy people, except for the ones [4:55:24] Speaker 1: that are getting abused right now or have been abused. [4:55:27] Speaker 1: But that's a tough one. That's a tough one in Carnage. [4:55:29] Speaker 1: I appreciate the question though. All right, listen, listen, friends. [4:55:33] Speaker 2: I have to go. I gotta leave. [4:55:37] Speaker 1: I hope you have a great evening. I really appreciate [4:55:41] Speaker 1: everyone being here. I thank you for all the likes, [4:55:44] Speaker 1: the super chats, the shares. I thank you to the [4:55:48] Speaker 1: moderators for being here moderating everything. Thank you for all [4:55:51] Speaker 1: the memberships and all the gifts on TikTok. I super [4:55:54] Speaker 1: appreciate all my family on TikTok and all my family [4:55:57] Speaker 1: on YouTube. So last thing, let's go raid Ian's live stream. [4:56:02] Speaker 1: If you don't know Ian, I'll put him on the screen. [4:56:05] Speaker 1: He's going to be streaming on YouTube and on TikTok, [4:56:10] Speaker 1: and the name of his channel is allegedly Ian. I [4:56:15] Speaker 1: want to put him on the screen so we can [4:56:17] Speaker 1: all see him. [4:56:18] Speaker 6: I think so. [4:56:20] Speaker 1: He must have a pretty big he must have started [4:56:23] Speaker 1: the stream recently. He's got a huge crowd already. [4:56:28] Speaker 2: Building. [4:56:29] Speaker 1: Let me grab his name. [4:56:30] Speaker 2: There we go Ian. [4:56:33] Speaker 1: And it's allegedly Ian. I don't know why Texas so small. [4:56:37] Speaker 1: Allegedly Ian. We're gonna go raid allegedly Ian on TikTok [4:56:41] Speaker 1: and on YouTube. Tell him Doug and Justin sent you, [4:56:44] Speaker 1: and then I'll see you friends over there. Thank you [4:56:46] Speaker 1: so much for being here and We'll see you again [4:56:49] Speaker 1: on probably Wednesday. Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.