# 2025-02-14 LIVE DEBATE \[God is Imaginary\]

An episode of [Deconstruction Zone](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1837730286), 4 Sep 2025, 4 h 19 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/67637767/2025_02_14_live_debate_god_is_imaginary.mp3

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## Transcript

[0:03] Speaker 1: Right, All right, guys, get the live stream open here, guys,
[0:08] Speaker 1: give me just a second here. I think YouTube is
[0:12] Speaker 1: connected and TikTok should be connected any second. Now, make
[0:18] Speaker 1: sure all the audio is set right, audio set right.
[0:21] Speaker 1: Good to see you, guys. Welcome in. I think all
[0:23] Speaker 1: the streams are open, the gust boxes are open. If
[0:27] Speaker 1: you're watching on YouTube, there's a link in the description
[0:31] Speaker 1: that will get you in as a guest. If you're
[0:33] Speaker 1: watching on TikTok, you guys know how to join. So
[0:37] Speaker 1: welcome in, guys. Good to see you, and rock Badger
[0:41] Speaker 1: cud good to see you again, says hoping Justin is
[0:44] Speaker 1: going to bust out some ha guy tonight. Well, I
[0:47] Speaker 1: don't know if I'll get the opportunity to. You know,
[0:49] Speaker 1: most Christians don't know that the Book of Hagy even exists,
[0:52] Speaker 1: so there's not a lot of occasion to talk about
[0:56] Speaker 1: the Book of Hag guy. But he's a pretty cool prophit. Actually,
[1:02] Speaker 1: he was like whipping the Israelites back into gear after
[1:06] Speaker 1: the return of the exiles. Basically, you know, do it,
[1:12] Speaker 1: doing the Lord's work and making sure that the temple
[1:14] Speaker 1: gets rebuilt, you know what I mean. But yeah, hey,
[1:18] Speaker 1: gu's a fun one. All right, let's get let's see
[1:21] Speaker 1: no one in the guest box yet, sureley, welcome to
[1:23] Speaker 1: the Cracking Crew and surely right, thank you for upgrading
[1:27] Speaker 1: to the Crack and Crew Elite. Everyone who's on the
[1:31] Speaker 1: Crack and Crew Elite obviously has access to the Deconstruction
[1:34] Speaker 1: Zone cheat sheet as well as you know anybody who
[1:37] Speaker 1: is subscribed to me on TikTok. And since we're waiting
[1:42] Speaker 1: on guests to load up, this would be a good
[1:45] Speaker 1: time to let everyone know that, Hey, our Discord community
[1:49] Speaker 1: is still growing.
[1:49] Speaker 2: Guys.
[1:51] Speaker 1: We literally blew path our two thousand dollars dollar, our
[1:56] Speaker 1: two thousand subscriber or a member mark last week, and
[2:01] Speaker 1: so we're just gonna keep on rolling. Guys, we'd love
[2:03] Speaker 1: to see you join the Discord community and get get
[2:08] Speaker 1: plugged in with what's happening. Soren, thank you so much
[2:13] Speaker 1: for the superchest, says, Let's go let's get some spicy
[2:17] Speaker 1: cooking tonight. Well, we're gonna do what we can. We
[2:20] Speaker 1: are definitely gonna do what we can. Thank you for
[2:23] Speaker 1: the super chat and one two three, good to see
[2:26] Speaker 1: again tonight as well. Thank you for the two super chest, says,
[2:29] Speaker 1: do you think apologists lie on purpose, I p and Wes, well,
[2:35] Speaker 1: that's actually really good points. So I think there are
[2:39] Speaker 1: some apologists that lie on purpose, but I think, you know,
[2:42] Speaker 1: the majority of them don't lie on purpose. I think
[2:45] Speaker 1: the majority of them are. I guess you would just
[2:48] Speaker 1: say they're they're coping right now. That doesn't mean they
[2:53] Speaker 1: don't say things that are untrue. They still are definitely
[2:56] Speaker 1: saying things that are not true, but I don't think
[3:00] Speaker 1: think necessarily that they're intentionally trying to say things that
[3:03] Speaker 1: are untrue. Now, there are some that we would say
[3:07] Speaker 1: are like professional apologiests. When you get those professional pologiests
[3:12] Speaker 1: where like it's their job to be apologists, and I
[3:14] Speaker 1: think they have a higher threshold for saying things that
[3:19] Speaker 1: support their position, even if they don't necessarily always believe
[3:22] Speaker 1: that thing to be true. And so that is the case.
[3:26] Speaker 1: But I do I think that wes Huff is not
[3:29] Speaker 1: lying to anyone. I think wes Huff his strength the
[3:32] Speaker 1: kool aid. I think he believes all the nonsense he preaches. Ken,
[3:37] Speaker 1: thank you for becoming a fifteen month subscriber, Big w Ken,
[3:41] Speaker 1: I appreciate that, and Fire, thank you for sharing out
[3:43] Speaker 1: the live guys, remember Sharon is Karen, and the faster
[3:47] Speaker 1: we share out the live, the easier it is to
[3:50] Speaker 1: get eyeballs on it and to get guests in the
[3:53] Speaker 1: guest box and do gold big w thank you for
[3:56] Speaker 1: all the handhearts. Good to see you do gold do.
[3:58] Speaker 1: Goald's been going live as well. Make sure you're tuning
[4:01] Speaker 1: into Dogald's channel over on TikTok, although I don't think
[4:06] Speaker 1: Dogald is streaming to any of the other any of
[4:09] Speaker 1: the other platforms yet, but we'll see, you know when
[4:13] Speaker 1: if TikTok goes by the wayside again, I think a
[4:16] Speaker 1: lot of the TikTokers are going to switch on over
[4:19] Speaker 1: to uh, switch on over to YouTube. If I had
[4:22] Speaker 1: to guess, it's hard. It's hard to say. I'm just
[4:24] Speaker 1: I'm doing both. I'm hedging all my bets, you know
[4:26] Speaker 1: what I mean. All Right, we'll get our first guest
[4:31] Speaker 1: in here. We've got Ernesto with us. How you do in, Ernesto?
[4:35] Speaker 3: I'm doing good?
[4:36] Speaker 1: How about you, Ernesto? Uh, thank you for asking, I'm
[4:38] Speaker 1: doing well. Are you least eighteen? Because you don't sound eighteen?
[4:42] Speaker 3: I am eighteen. Sure?
[4:43] Speaker 1: What year were you born?
[4:46] Speaker 3: Two thousand and one.
[4:50] Speaker 1: Good liar.
[4:51] Speaker 3: Get out of here.
[4:55] Speaker 1: Guys. If you can't do basic algebra, not algebra, bas arithmetic,
[5:02] Speaker 1: don't come up lying about your age ridiculous. Yeah, he
[5:09] Speaker 1: was a zygote H Parker. Thank you so much for
[5:12] Speaker 1: the VR goggles and Gemini, good to see you. Thank
[5:16] Speaker 1: you for the love paint, Gemini, let's see tech techna.
[5:24] Speaker 1: Thank you for being to remember it says you can
[5:26] Speaker 1: hear the blue screen in some of the guests. Yeah,
[5:30] Speaker 1: it's funny, like when when the guests malfunction, like you
[5:33] Speaker 1: can you can hear it in the voice, Like when
[5:35] Speaker 1: you've said something that that stops them in their tracks.
[5:38] Speaker 1: You like hear it in their voice. It's really kind
[5:40] Speaker 1: of a fun thing to watch. We all fall pray
[5:44] Speaker 1: to it eventually.
[5:45] Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
[5:46] Speaker 1: Welcome in the Is it libbing? Yes, welcome in libin?
[5:59] Speaker 1: How you doing? Are you at least eighteen? And are
[6:00] Speaker 1: you a believer?
[6:02] Speaker 2: Yes? I I am twenty twenty seven cool believer?
[6:08] Speaker 1: Cool? And what God do you believe in?
[6:10] Speaker 2: I believe in Allah? Cool?
[6:12] Speaker 1: And would be the best evidence or the best argument
[6:14] Speaker 1: for why a law is real?
[6:17] Speaker 2: Well, I came to the conclusion that I think that
[6:22] Speaker 2: there being god is the most logical explanation to why
[6:26] Speaker 2: we are here.
[6:27] Speaker 1: Cool, But what's the argument for your specific god?
[6:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, so my thought process it was like this. So
[6:33] Speaker 2: I thought like, there had always had to be something
[6:38] Speaker 2: that was in existence, or else there would be nothing.
[6:43] Speaker 2: And I believe that nothing comes out of nothing, and
[6:48] Speaker 2: something can't come out of nothing.
[6:50] Speaker 1: We agree. But interestingly enough, I don't believe in a god,
[6:53] Speaker 1: so I don't believe there was ever nothing. I think matter, space,
[6:57] Speaker 1: timed universe. I think it's always been here. It's it's infinite,
[7:00] Speaker 1: it's eternal, it's always been here, it will always be here.
[7:04] Speaker 1: And as it turns out, we can prove that the
[7:06] Speaker 1: universe exists, we're part of it, but there's no proof
[7:09] Speaker 1: for an internal god. So so is there a different
[7:13] Speaker 1: argument that would lead me to a god? Or is
[7:16] Speaker 1: that the only one?
[7:16] Speaker 2: Well? You know, you know, it was like more like
[7:20] Speaker 2: a starting point. I started with, Okay, there had always
[7:23] Speaker 2: had to be something, and I explored, okay, what can
[7:27] Speaker 2: that something be? And it was plausible to me that
[7:32] Speaker 2: that thing that always existed, it had it has to
[7:37] Speaker 2: have some what is called not not capabilities, but the abilities,
[7:42] Speaker 2: or some kind of yeah, abilities maybe because because when
[7:50] Speaker 2: I see around the world, you know, I see, I see,
[7:54] Speaker 2: I see what it's called like, yeah, order, yeah, order, I.
[7:58] Speaker 1: Don't see order. I seek. I think the majority of
[8:02] Speaker 1: the universe, ninety nine point nine percent of it is
[8:04] Speaker 1: just utter chaos. Even the planet that we live on
[8:07] Speaker 1: is mostly chaos. Like the planet unalives one hundred thousand
[8:13] Speaker 1: people a year on average through natural disasters. Three million
[8:17] Speaker 1: children a year die from starvation something chaos, not order.
[8:22] Speaker 2: Yeah, three million maybe may maybe die, but there are
[8:26] Speaker 2: many more people that come that get berthed. And the
[8:34] Speaker 2: order in the sense that you know, for example, the
[8:37] Speaker 2: sun and the night and day, it shifts every day.
[8:41] Speaker 2: It shifts every day. So so it's it's it's an
[8:45] Speaker 2: order behind it.
[8:46] Speaker 1: No, something being cyclical doesn't mean that it's orderly. It's
[8:50] Speaker 1: one day we're not going to have a sun, order Earth,
[8:52] Speaker 1: our entire galaxy is going to collide with the Andromeda
[8:56] Speaker 1: galaxy and we're not going to exist at all.
[8:58] Speaker 2: Well, that's that's a theory. I also believe that we
[9:00] Speaker 2: will not be here forever.
[9:03] Speaker 1: Sure, what do you what's the evidence that we're not
[9:06] Speaker 1: gonna be here forever?
[9:09] Speaker 2: The evidence I take my evidence from the Quran.
[9:12] Speaker 1: Okay, so all this really rests on the Quran and no,
[9:16] Speaker 1: and not.
[9:17] Speaker 2: Really you know, so it was you know, I came to,
[9:20] Speaker 2: you know, a logical conclusion that God does exist and yeah,
[9:25] Speaker 2: because you know there has there had always had to
[9:28] Speaker 2: be something in existence and that.
[9:31] Speaker 1: I know, the universe, the universe always existed. I agree.
[9:34] Speaker 1: So there's no need, there's no need to invent a
[9:37] Speaker 1: magic man in the sky.
[9:39] Speaker 2: Do you believe that the universe always existed?
[9:42] Speaker 1: I believe that matter, space, and time has always existed.
[9:45] Speaker 2: So and space is universe. Yeah.
[9:49] Speaker 1: The universe, when I use that phrase, just means everything
[9:52] Speaker 1: that we know to exist.
[9:54] Speaker 2: Okay, what's your what's your evidence for marder and space
[9:59] Speaker 2: to all has existed because according to scientists, Well don't.
[10:03] Speaker 1: Let's just start out easy. First of all, you don't
[10:05] Speaker 1: know what scientists think, and you definitely don't care what
[10:07] Speaker 1: scientists think because scientists don't believe in God over you know,
[10:11] Speaker 1: over the larger collection of them. But the fact of
[10:15] Speaker 1: the matter is we know the universe exists, right, yes, Okay, Now,
[10:20] Speaker 1: can something come from nothing?
[10:23] Speaker 2: No?
[10:24] Speaker 1: Do we have something or do we have nothing?
[10:26] Speaker 2: Yeah? Something?
[10:27] Speaker 1: Okay, that means the universe is eternal, It's always existed.
[10:30] Speaker 2: Okay, well what about the Big Bang? What about it?
[10:36] Speaker 2: Wasn't it like the universe came into existence now after
[10:39] Speaker 2: the Big Bank? No, what was there before the Big Bang?
[10:42] Speaker 1: Then there's a lot of theories as to what was
[10:44] Speaker 1: before the Big Bang. I think the theory that makes
[10:46] Speaker 1: the most sense is the elastic universe theory or the
[10:50] Speaker 1: Big Bang Big Crunch theory, basically stating that the universe
[10:53] Speaker 1: is in a constant cycle of expansions and then contractions
[10:58] Speaker 1: and then expansions.
[11:01] Speaker 2: Yeah. Well it doesn't really sound convincing.
[11:05] Speaker 1: Well, I'm sorry, but there's actually scientific evidence for it.
[11:08] Speaker 1: There's no scientific evidence for a prophet that did all
[11:12] Speaker 1: a nine year old in the middle of the desert
[11:13] Speaker 1: and split the moon into though. Do you think that
[11:19] Speaker 1: it's Do you think it's a good thing that Iraq
[11:22] Speaker 1: officially lowered the age of marriage to nine.
[11:26] Speaker 2: To be honest, you know, according to my religion, we
[11:30] Speaker 2: don't have a specific age what is called the age
[11:37] Speaker 2: of consent? I know, yeah, we don't.
[11:39] Speaker 1: We don't have that in Iran. It's it's common to
[11:43] Speaker 1: get married even before you hit double digits.
[11:47] Speaker 2: Well, you know. According according to Islam, it's like, you know,
[11:51] Speaker 2: we have to we have to see we have like
[11:54] Speaker 2: two we have to see the mind and the body.
[11:57] Speaker 2: They are both really mine.
[12:00] Speaker 1: When when is a nine year old's mind ready? And
[12:02] Speaker 1: how do you know? Because it sounds to me like
[12:05] Speaker 1: what you're doing is just looking at the body and
[12:07] Speaker 1: saying I'd like to have a piece of that because
[12:10] Speaker 1: the mind doesn't matter to you. Women are just property
[12:12] Speaker 1: to to Islamic believers.
[12:14] Speaker 2: No, no, not really. I think I think that you
[12:16] Speaker 2: have what is the what is the mind?
[12:19] Speaker 1: Does the women do for you? Half half of these
[12:22] Speaker 1: Muslim countries won't even let women like read and go
[12:25] Speaker 1: to school or drive. Why do you care with their minds?
[12:27] Speaker 2: With their mind? I think, I think I think that
[12:29] Speaker 2: you have very many like piece of positions about Islam
[12:33] Speaker 2: that that's that's not true because you know, we we
[12:39] Speaker 2: we don't like, you know, have sex outside of marriage.
[12:42] Speaker 2: It's not allowed. It's not allowed. So in order for
[12:45] Speaker 2: us to have a sex with with with someone, let's
[12:47] Speaker 2: say a girl, I have to like ask permission from
[12:50] Speaker 2: the parents, and I have to get married to to
[12:55] Speaker 2: the girl and no, and and you know, the parents,
[13:01] Speaker 2: all the parents they want good for their children. So
[13:04] Speaker 2: it's like, you know, you're saying that you don't you
[13:06] Speaker 2: don't take that into accountability. It's like, it's not like
[13:10] Speaker 2: we going around and you know the rest.
[13:11] Speaker 1: Of the world has marriage too, right, you understand that, like,
[13:17] Speaker 1: you guys didn't invent marriage.
[13:20] Speaker 2: Well, I do believe that we invented marriage.
[13:22] Speaker 1: You definitely didn't invent marriage. Mohammed lived in a time
[13:26] Speaker 1: period where marriage had already been a thing for four
[13:28] Speaker 1: thousand years.
[13:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, we don't believe that Mohammed that
[13:33] Speaker 2: he came with a new religion. We do believe that
[13:35] Speaker 2: the first human being he was Muslim.
[13:39] Speaker 1: Well, he'd be wrong. Then, Hey, I'm going to see
[13:42] Speaker 1: a buddy.
[13:44] Speaker 2: Love.
[13:44] Speaker 4: No, I just will go.
[13:46] Speaker 1: I know someone summoned the final boss. Goot to see
[13:48] Speaker 1: a buddy. We've got a guy in here who thinks
[13:51] Speaker 1: that it's okay to marry children. What do you think
[13:54] Speaker 1: about that?
[13:55] Speaker 2: No, I don't believe. No, no, no, don't. I don't.
[13:57] Speaker 2: I don't believe it's okay to marry children. I don't
[14:01] Speaker 2: believe that.
[14:02] Speaker 1: Okay, So that then Iraq was wrong for lowering the
[14:05] Speaker 1: age of marriage.
[14:06] Speaker 2: Well, well, can we specify what children is?
[14:10] Speaker 1: First, I think a nine year olds a child? Yeah, yeah, no,
[14:14] Speaker 1: but what EM's got a medical background? Is there like
[14:18] Speaker 1: a good way to know if a child as a child?
[14:21] Speaker 2: Like?
[14:23] Speaker 4: Yeah, So the thing is like it seems to be
[14:27] Speaker 4: like the only Muslim men do you don't know what
[14:29] Speaker 4: a child is?
[14:31] Speaker 2: Like?
[14:31] Speaker 4: It seems to be like a very very intuitive like
[14:33] Speaker 4: topic where a quite category of people children when we
[14:39] Speaker 4: say children is usually people referring to who are not adults.
[14:43] Speaker 4: We can define it by a legal age where we
[14:44] Speaker 4: can define it by a by the age at which
[14:47] Speaker 4: they hit puberty. But it doesn't matter because again you
[14:51] Speaker 4: you liben, know what a child is. You're just changing
[14:55] Speaker 4: the definition because you want to see if it's the
[14:58] Speaker 4: definition we're going to give you is well, well, what things.
[15:04] Speaker 2: I'd like to know?
[15:04] Speaker 1: When the cutoff is living?
[15:06] Speaker 2: What is the like?
[15:07] Speaker 1: When do you know when a child is no longer
[15:09] Speaker 1: a child? What's that cat off?
[15:11] Speaker 5: Well?
[15:11] Speaker 2: According to me, according to me, I believe that a
[15:14] Speaker 2: child is no longer a child after they are done
[15:17] Speaker 2: with puberty.
[15:19] Speaker 1: So what if they have if they have puberty at
[15:22] Speaker 1: age six?
[15:24] Speaker 2: Let me let me complete, So after after they're done
[15:27] Speaker 2: with puperty and they're there, so after the body is developed,
[15:34] Speaker 2: So that's puberty, after puberty and when the when the mind,
[15:38] Speaker 2: that's you know, it's a it's a wrong mind. Cool.
[15:42] Speaker 1: So okay, So if if someone has early onset puberty,
[15:51] Speaker 1: the precocious puberty, and they're fully developed by age eight,
[15:54] Speaker 1: is okay to marry them and have.
[15:56] Speaker 2: Babies if if they have if they have if they
[15:59] Speaker 2: have sound, sound mind and their body is developed, Yeah,
[16:03] Speaker 2: I don't see you guys are sick.
[16:06] Speaker 1: How does a how does an eight year old? How
[16:08] Speaker 1: does the mind of an eight year old satisfy the
[16:12] Speaker 1: needs of an adult man? What kind of conversations do
[16:14] Speaker 1: you think you guys are going to have? What kind
[16:16] Speaker 1: of pillow talk you have an eight year old?
[16:19] Speaker 4: You talk to your wife?
[16:21] Speaker 2: Well, well, I'm not talking specifically about eight years old,
[16:25] Speaker 2: eight years I'm just, you know, trying to to set
[16:28] Speaker 2: a standard. I came with my standard. What is your standard?
[16:33] Speaker 1: Well, my standard is when they're an actual adult, their
[16:35] Speaker 1: brains are actually developed. I don't care when they hit puberty.
[16:39] Speaker 1: That's useless. That's just not a good metric. In fact,
[16:42] Speaker 1: we know from science that engaging in sexual intercourse too
[16:46] Speaker 1: early results in lifelong chronic illnesses. In fact, this was
[16:50] Speaker 1: a problem that was documented well in India in the
[16:54] Speaker 1: middle of the nineties. There was a large number of
[16:57] Speaker 1: women that were outcast from society because they had birth
[17:01] Speaker 1: when they were too young. Their bodies were till too
[17:03] Speaker 1: small and it messes up their urinary tract and some
[17:07] Speaker 1: of the other organs, and it causes them to have leakage,
[17:10] Speaker 1: incurable leakage. They're just constantly leaking, you know, urine. They
[17:14] Speaker 1: can't control it. And this is very common that when
[17:17] Speaker 1: women have children before their body is ready for it,
[17:20] Speaker 1: they develop chronic illnesses. So I believe that you should
[17:25] Speaker 1: marry someone over the age of eighteen, and I think
[17:28] Speaker 1: that it doesn't matter if they've hit puberty or not.
[17:31] Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, so it's eighteen, what about seventeen or about seventeen?
[17:36] Speaker 2: Would you be okay with the seventeen? I wouldn't be
[17:38] Speaker 2: non okay, Well, okay, let's say you know a country
[17:41] Speaker 2: like France, they are okay with the fourteen? Did they
[17:45] Speaker 2: have the age of consent? There is fourteen?
[17:46] Speaker 1: I know, actually that's the case.
[17:49] Speaker 2: Well, I don't think some.
[17:51] Speaker 4: European confirmed thirteen and fourteen is the age of consent
[17:55] Speaker 4: in France?
[17:56] Speaker 1: Yes, I would disagree with France. Then, yes, the age
[18:01] Speaker 1: of consent right now in France is fifteen, as specified
[18:05] Speaker 1: by Article two two seven dash to five. I disagree.
[18:10] Speaker 1: I think the age of consent should be higher. I
[18:13] Speaker 1: think you should be because I think the human brain
[18:16] Speaker 1: doesn't finish developing even until you've you've getten, close to
[18:21] Speaker 1: your twenties, and even at that you don't have enough
[18:23] Speaker 1: life experiences to function as an adult yet.
[18:26] Speaker 2: Okay, okay, but but would you say that France are
[18:30] Speaker 2: a country that is filled?
[18:33] Speaker 1: Where do you go? You just take up to say
[18:35] Speaker 1: that again we lost you for a second.
[18:36] Speaker 2: Okay, would you say that France is filled with people
[18:41] Speaker 2: that are pedophiles or no?
[18:43] Speaker 1: I would say anyone who marries a fifteen year old
[18:46] Speaker 1: in France as a pedophile?
[18:48] Speaker 2: Yeah, you would say that, yep. Okay, So okay, So
[18:51] Speaker 2: the government of France is pedifies according to.
[18:54] Speaker 1: You, then fair enough. I don't care.
[18:57] Speaker 2: Okay, let's say, let's suppose in the hundred.
[18:59] Speaker 1: This this is just like a really bad what about it?
[19:02] Speaker 1: You're like saying, well, what about France, what the fuck
[19:04] Speaker 1: about you? France didn't say you can marry eight year olds.
[19:06] Speaker 1: You do. So, do you think there's a difference between
[19:09] Speaker 1: marrying a fifteen year old and an eight year old?
[19:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, I do believe there's a difference.
[19:14] Speaker 1: What's the difference.
[19:15] Speaker 2: So the difference is it's much more likely when you
[19:19] Speaker 2: are fifteen that you are more delivered, that you are
[19:22] Speaker 2: an adult than suppose eight and an eight year old.
[19:26] Speaker 2: In most cases, I don't believe that you can be
[19:27] Speaker 2: an adult adult.
[19:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, eight year olds can even see over the stirring
[19:30] Speaker 1: all of the car. Eight year olds still play with barbies.
[19:33] Speaker 1: Eight year olds have dollhouses.
[19:35] Speaker 2: Well, the thing is, you know, you are comparing eight
[19:38] Speaker 2: years eight year olds of the West, children of you know,
[19:44] Speaker 2: eight year olds of other parts of the world, like
[19:46] Speaker 2: you know other eight year olds are. They are much
[19:49] Speaker 2: more grown up.
[19:50] Speaker 1: And that's not true. Iush you still play with dolls.
[19:52] Speaker 1: When she married the prophet accorded to her.
[19:54] Speaker 2: Own Well, there are thirty years old that play with
[19:58] Speaker 2: play stations.
[19:58] Speaker 1: You think, do you think she it was thirty years
[20:00] Speaker 1: old playing with dolls.
[20:02] Speaker 2: No, no, no, I'm just I'm just saying that are
[20:04] Speaker 2: thirty years old now that they're playing with pasages and dolls. Okay,
[20:09] Speaker 2: what it's more like games, you know, it's games.
[20:12] Speaker 1: Playing with dolls is like playing a video game.
[20:15] Speaker 2: Well, there didn't used to be video games, Bacia in
[20:19] Speaker 2: one of four hundred years ago.
[20:21] Speaker 1: So really, because, as it turns out, the playing with
[20:24] Speaker 1: dogs dolls was explicitly attached to her being below the
[20:28] Speaker 1: age of puberty. She says in the narration, I used
[20:32] Speaker 1: to play with dolls in the presence of the prophet,
[20:35] Speaker 1: and my girlfriends also played with me. When all this
[20:38] Speaker 1: messenger used to enter my dwelling place. They used to
[20:41] Speaker 1: hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join
[20:44] Speaker 1: and play with me. The playing with dolls and similar
[20:47] Speaker 1: images is forbidden, but it was allowed for Ayesha at
[20:50] Speaker 1: the time as she was a little girl not yet
[20:52] Speaker 1: reached the age of puberty. So playing with dolls is
[20:55] Speaker 1: specifically something you do when you're young, when you're a
[20:58] Speaker 1: little girl, when you haven't reached stage of purbity.
[21:01] Speaker 2: Okay, So are you saying that the girls that have
[21:04] Speaker 2: reached the puberty doesn't play with dolls.
[21:06] Speaker 1: What I'm saying is, yeah, for the most part, yeah,
[21:09] Speaker 1: girls that reach the people that you don't play with
[21:11] Speaker 1: dolls anymore. Okay, so yeah, I'm not I'm not a
[21:14] Speaker 1: little girl. So I can't give you statistics on this.
[21:16] Speaker 1: I don't have like anecdotal evidence or even collected evidence.
[21:20] Speaker 1: But I would say I don't actually know any adult
[21:23] Speaker 1: women that plays with dolls. Put a put a one
[21:25] Speaker 1: in the comments. If you're an adult woman that plays
[21:28] Speaker 1: with dolls. I'm curious if there's any out there.
[21:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know. Anyways, it's like, you know, I
[21:36] Speaker 2: don't believe that you know, you have a moral ground
[21:41] Speaker 2: to stand down. I think that you just come with
[21:44] Speaker 2: your subjective opinions and you've just come with you know,
[21:48] Speaker 2: arbitrary numbers. Eighteen. You're saying eighteen, but why eighteen? It's
[21:53] Speaker 2: not like you're just faying it.
[21:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I got you. Can I get big screams, Yeah,
[22:01] Speaker 1: you're you're bumped up.
[22:02] Speaker 4: So Libyan, you read it. I can tell from me accent,
[22:06] Speaker 4: Yeah I can.
[22:07] Speaker 5: I can.
[22:08] Speaker 2: I can read a little bit. But this this it
[22:10] Speaker 2: looks tough to read.
[22:13] Speaker 4: Okay, this is I can I can summarize this. This
[22:16] Speaker 4: is Guitablo boy, sure volume mate, the chapter of fucking.
[22:22] Speaker 2: And it's us that the chapter what the chapter? What? Yeah?
[22:27] Speaker 2: Bbanica Bby nica babicablica. Okay, okay, okay, it is that.
[22:36] Speaker 4: Yeah, it is someone called told why would you say
[22:41] Speaker 4: that founders get married off their peoples and girls? And
[22:44] Speaker 4: then he said that the get married off to the
[22:47] Speaker 4: prophet Aha when she was a laughter of six or seven,
[22:51] Speaker 4: and then he sucked her when she was a daughter
[22:53] Speaker 4: of nine, and then he said in both cases that
[22:56] Speaker 4: the marriage contract will happened, and the intercourse happened was
[22:59] Speaker 4: when she was prepeopcent, when she had now.
[23:02] Speaker 2: Upon yourself, and I didn't understand that.
[23:08] Speaker 4: And I'm going to say to New York for you.
[23:17] Speaker 1: With the Prepew girls, what he said, who had sex
[23:20] Speaker 1: with the present your pervent prophet? Yeah, the pedophile prophet?
[23:24] Speaker 2: Bro. You know, you just you don't have to you know,
[23:27] Speaker 2: commit common names. You know, can we keep it you know,
[23:31] Speaker 2: uh formal or you know respectful.
[23:34] Speaker 1: I'm sorry, what do you call someone who diddles children
[23:37] Speaker 1: that are prepewdes and what's the word for that? I
[23:41] Speaker 1: think we call him pedophile? Okay, So if he did that,
[23:45] Speaker 1: then definitionally speaking, he is a pedophile. Like if I
[23:48] Speaker 1: if I was a criminal, like if I was an
[23:50] Speaker 1: arsonist and you called me an arsonist. I had that coming.
[23:54] Speaker 1: I earned that. So when when somebody is a known pedophle,
[24:00] Speaker 1: I's gonna come them.
[24:00] Speaker 2: But okay, okay, I do. I do agree with you
[24:03] Speaker 2: that someone who who who lays around with the pre
[24:08] Speaker 2: pre prepresented girls they are I do agree with that,
[24:11] Speaker 2: but I oh sorry, I don't should I repeat it?
[24:18] Speaker 1: But I think you've probably said enough. Do you think
[24:21] Speaker 1: that women are half as good as men? Or like
[24:24] Speaker 1: you need two women to equal one man?
[24:29] Speaker 2: Could you repeat that? Yeah?
[24:32] Speaker 1: Do you think that you need two women to equal
[24:34] Speaker 1: one man?
[24:35] Speaker 2: Like?
[24:35] Speaker 1: For example, if somebody committed a crime, should there be
[24:38] Speaker 1: two witnesses for every male witness if they're female?
[24:44] Speaker 2: Not not necessarily. But it's not the Quran, it.
[24:49] Speaker 1: Is the Crown. Chapter two literally says that if there
[24:53] Speaker 1: are not two men available, that a man and two
[24:55] Speaker 1: women as you agree for witnesses, so that if one
[24:59] Speaker 1: of them too man errors the other kid. In chapter two,
[25:02] Speaker 1: chapter which verse it's two two eighty two. Okay, Okay,
[25:07] Speaker 1: you're right, and they're just as bad as the Christians.
[25:09] Speaker 1: They've never read the book.
[25:11] Speaker 2: I've read that. Even I've even re memberized the chrome
[25:14] Speaker 2: bro Yeah, I thought it was it was, I thought, yeah.
[25:19] Speaker 4: Preit you memories Dacon, and you didn't know this, I know.
[25:22] Speaker 2: I just thought it was in Dadith.
[25:24] Speaker 1: So so yeah, so he's not just he's not just
[25:27] Speaker 1: like a pedophile. He's also a liar. Now he's memorized
[25:32] Speaker 1: the Koran.
[25:32] Speaker 2: Didn't know this was in it.
[25:33] Speaker 1: It was like chapter two, bro.
[25:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, chapter two. But you know the chorn I rememberized
[25:40] Speaker 2: did when I was thirteen, fourteen years old. It was
[25:43] Speaker 2: like twelve years ago. So I do. I do read
[25:49] Speaker 2: some parts from time from time to time. So don't
[25:52] Speaker 2: call me a liar.
[25:53] Speaker 1: You're a liar.
[25:55] Speaker 2: How odd they lie.
[25:56] Speaker 1: Because you said you had it memorized. Either you do
[25:58] Speaker 1: or you don't.
[26:00] Speaker 2: No, I said I memorized it, But it doesn't mean
[26:03] Speaker 2: that you know, I have everything available right away.
[26:08] Speaker 1: That's what it means to memorize something.
[26:10] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, but you can memorize something and you can
[26:12] Speaker 2: forget something to Okay, So I just but okay, let's go,
[26:16] Speaker 2: let's move on. Okay.
[26:17] Speaker 1: So you think women are only half as equal as men.
[26:20] Speaker 2: No, I think I believe that the women and the
[26:23] Speaker 2: men are equal.
[26:24] Speaker 1: Okay, So the crown is wrong, then no, the crowd
[26:28] Speaker 1: is not wrong.
[26:28] Speaker 2: There's the crowns.
[26:30] Speaker 1: Do you need two women for one man.
[26:34] Speaker 2: In the case of being in in a court? Well,
[26:42] Speaker 2: it can. I haven't really read the content. I don't
[26:45] Speaker 2: remember the context of it.
[26:49] Speaker 4: In front of them is as a if fun of
[26:51] Speaker 4: them forgets sources one detail, the other woman is get
[26:55] Speaker 4: a character. And this is one when for example, if
[26:58] Speaker 4: you have a person committings in a for adultery, you
[27:01] Speaker 4: get four male witnesses enough, but you need eight women witnesses.
[27:04] Speaker 4: And some scholars say eight women witnesses wouldn't be alone
[27:07] Speaker 4: with because you do not have a man inside of them.
[27:10] Speaker 2: Well I don't, I don't, I don't. I don't believe that.
[27:13] Speaker 1: No, No, okay, So your religion is is not just
[27:16] Speaker 1: full of pedophiles, it's also super sexist. That's cool. Is
[27:21] Speaker 1: there a chapter in the Koran about beating your husband?
[27:24] Speaker 1: Or can you only beat wives?
[27:26] Speaker 2: Oh?
[27:26] Speaker 4: Actually, before that just said if you might o libya.
[27:29] Speaker 4: Can you tell me what the word the deal means
[27:32] Speaker 4: to deal?
[27:33] Speaker 6: Yes?
[27:34] Speaker 2: This is like yeah, isn't it like you know something
[27:36] Speaker 2: that's better?
[27:38] Speaker 4: Yeah, so it is something that is better. So if
[27:40] Speaker 4: I if I say that I don't know what this,
[27:42] Speaker 4: what does that.
[27:42] Speaker 2: Mean, uh and this this is better or something? I
[27:49] Speaker 2: prefer this?
[27:51] Speaker 7: Yeah?
[27:52] Speaker 4: Yeah, just can you bring up for thirty four?
[27:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, bring up four thirty four?
[27:58] Speaker 6: Right exactly.
[28:00] Speaker 4: Funny thing is good in this vers is that that
[28:06] Speaker 4: been or the the cure takers of women because of
[28:09] Speaker 4: what he preferred within the one sex of video other.
[28:13] Speaker 2: Go with let me lemit literally okay, he said, I
[28:18] Speaker 2: have made great hair budget the calamity wincent for the
[28:24] Speaker 2: twelve question. Okay, but this is referring to to a
[28:27] Speaker 2: version of the Krown.
[28:28] Speaker 4: Yes, I'm talking about chapter four versus twenty four thirty four.
[28:32] Speaker 1: Not oh oh, I'm in Koran chapter four. Let me
[28:37] Speaker 1: pop the whole chapter.
[28:40] Speaker 4: This is little here.
[28:43] Speaker 1: Oh sorry, sorry?
[28:45] Speaker 2: Okay, So so you were ready, you were ready that
[28:48] Speaker 2: it wasn't the Koran. No, no, I was.
[28:51] Speaker 1: It's in the Koran. It's two to eighty two. I've
[28:53] Speaker 1: got it written on my sheet right here, from the
[28:55] Speaker 1: copy and pasted.
[28:57] Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, there we go.
[28:59] Speaker 1: We want this guy right here. This is the one
[29:01] Speaker 1: we're looking for. Sorry about that. I was on the
[29:03] Speaker 1: wrong website looking for a tough seer. All right, So
[29:07] Speaker 1: men are caretakers of women, as men have been provisioned
[29:11] Speaker 1: by Allah over women and tasks with supporting them financially.
[29:15] Speaker 1: And righteous women are devoutly obedient and when alone, protective
[29:20] Speaker 1: of what Allah hasn't trusted them with. And if you
[29:23] Speaker 1: sense ill conduct from your women, advise them first. If
[29:27] Speaker 1: they persist, do not share their beds. If they still persist,
[29:31] Speaker 1: then discipline. Discipline them gently. If they change their ways,
[29:35] Speaker 1: do not be unjust to them. By the way, Oh,
[29:40] Speaker 1: it's funny how they lied when they translated into English.
[29:43] Speaker 2: No, no but things.
[29:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, it's in it's it's a got a
[29:46] Speaker 1: box around it. They added that that's not actually in there.
[29:49] Speaker 2: Okay, so you know, you know, when we are reading
[29:52] Speaker 2: the crown, if something is like onqure, we we go
[29:56] Speaker 2: to to the hadith and it says we can like
[29:59] Speaker 2: top them lightly, so it's not beating up.
[30:01] Speaker 4: A wife avoided the profet waited. The profit punched his
[30:04] Speaker 4: way from the chest.
[30:06] Speaker 2: No, it is not bro next hands.
[30:11] Speaker 4: You know he never punched his She literally said, he
[30:14] Speaker 4: punched me on the chest, which costs me pain.
[30:16] Speaker 2: He held me, he held he held my my. What
[30:20] Speaker 2: is called the clothes?
[30:22] Speaker 4: No, that isn't what it says. This is not the
[30:24] Speaker 4: definition of the word. The definition of the word. The
[30:26] Speaker 4: other the inn the airbic lexicons is either you've you've
[30:29] Speaker 4: given a CEV push did the test, or you've you've
[30:32] Speaker 4: hit the chest or the breasts with your fist. So
[30:37] Speaker 4: he did either either one of those two actions to
[30:40] Speaker 4: her when she was a child, that she said it
[30:42] Speaker 4: caused her pain, So that the profit contradicts himself.
[30:46] Speaker 2: Well, well, you know, even even even even even let's
[30:51] Speaker 2: suppose no, no, the thing is, you know, I'm trying,
[30:56] Speaker 2: I'm trying to award it. But even let's say, let's
[31:04] Speaker 2: say that you know, we have a like a moral
[31:08] Speaker 2: all this this it goes back to, you know, our
[31:10] Speaker 2: moral but things do you guys have even a moral
[31:15] Speaker 2: standard exactly a standard?
[31:18] Speaker 4: And I agree with you because me and Justine do
[31:20] Speaker 4: not have a moral standard. We have no idea that
[31:23] Speaker 4: sleeping with a nine year old is bird and the
[31:25] Speaker 4: beating her when she's twelve is bad.
[31:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so we have no way of wrong?
[31:30] Speaker 2: Is no?
[31:30] Speaker 1: Not at all?
[31:32] Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't. I don't believe that you have like
[31:33] Speaker 2: a moral standard that that you can judge upon, because
[31:37] Speaker 2: you are now, you know, throwing throwing rocks at at us.
[31:41] Speaker 2: But but you don't even have a house, you know, so,
[31:44] Speaker 2: so it's like, you know, I can't, I can't.
[31:46] Speaker 4: You know you can do it back.
[31:49] Speaker 2: No, it's not it's not about doing back. It's more
[31:52] Speaker 2: about you know, you don't. You don't even have a
[31:55] Speaker 2: moral ground.
[31:55] Speaker 1: I love it. People who think it's it's okay to
[31:58] Speaker 1: be a pedophile criticize my moral standing. Wild to me,
[32:02] Speaker 1: do you think that ex Muslim should be executed.
[32:07] Speaker 2: In a Islamic country where the rule of the country
[32:12] Speaker 2: is and if if a Muslim he goes out of
[32:19] Speaker 2: the fault of Islam and I judge, and he goes
[32:23] Speaker 2: to court and orders it, Yeah, I do believe that
[32:27] Speaker 2: he can. You are sick. No, no, why why? Why
[32:33] Speaker 2: is it wrong? Though?
[32:34] Speaker 1: Why should you execute somebody for not believing in your fantasy?
[32:39] Speaker 2: Well, it's not it's not that, it's not that he
[32:41] Speaker 2: doesn't believe in it. The thing is, in order to
[32:43] Speaker 2: be what it.
[32:44] Speaker 1: Means to be an ex Muslim, you don't, you no
[32:46] Speaker 1: longer believe that you're not part of the faith anymore.
[32:48] Speaker 2: But the thing is, you know, other you don't have to, like,
[32:51] Speaker 2: you know, go on shout about it. And if you
[32:53] Speaker 2: don't go out shout about it. I know what we know.
[32:55] Speaker 4: You know why, no, no, no, no, no no no,
[32:58] Speaker 4: you have to you have to pretend to pre to
[33:00] Speaker 4: because there is enough to get you in a lift.
[33:04] Speaker 1: Well you know you have so you have to pretend
[33:06] Speaker 1: you could be an ex Muslim. But you have to
[33:08] Speaker 1: pretend to be a Muslim or you'll get murdered. Oh
[33:12] Speaker 1: my guys, my my moral standing is so terrible. I
[33:15] Speaker 1: don't have a moral standard. But look at these guys.
[33:17] Speaker 1: We're just going to execute people who don't agree with
[33:20] Speaker 1: our sky fairy.
[33:22] Speaker 2: Well we do. Look look at the same way. Wh
[33:26] Speaker 2: Where are you from? Can ask? Where are you from?
[33:28] Speaker 1: Not your country? Then goodness?
[33:30] Speaker 2: Yeah? But where are you from?
[33:32] Speaker 1: I get enough death threats for Muslims. So where are
[33:35] Speaker 1: you from? What country are you in?
[33:37] Speaker 2: I'm in no way, You're in Norway.
[33:41] Speaker 1: Oh so you want to take over somebody else's country
[33:43] Speaker 1: and make it a ship home?
[33:45] Speaker 2: Bro? But I don't I brought you know, I don't know.
[33:47] Speaker 2: I don't know why the you know the hostile.
[33:50] Speaker 1: Because your religion is disgusting you. Every everywhere it spreads
[33:56] Speaker 1: brings a wake of damage.
[34:01] Speaker 4: You did you go to a country.
[34:04] Speaker 2: Well when I went I came here. Yeah, well, well
[34:08] Speaker 2: I came. I came here as a baby, you know,
[34:11] Speaker 2: and we we we fled war. Our family.
[34:16] Speaker 4: Just like land onto London is devoted into the land
[34:22] Speaker 4: of Islam and the land of war.
[34:24] Speaker 3: Bro.
[34:24] Speaker 4: I didn't go back because purposely choose to live in
[34:27] Speaker 4: the land of war with the with the dis believers.
[34:31] Speaker 2: Bro, I didn't go back. I didn't go back because
[34:33] Speaker 2: I grew up here. I have my family here, my
[34:36] Speaker 2: friends here, my work here.
[34:38] Speaker 4: So but do not have a Muslim community and society
[34:41] Speaker 4: there you're being governed by Yeah we are.
[34:46] Speaker 5: We are, But.
[34:48] Speaker 2: I do have a Muslim community and you know, and
[34:50] Speaker 2: the and the government. It doesn't like, you know, step
[34:54] Speaker 2: on my religion freedom. So h that's definitely.
[35:02] Speaker 1: For now. If you guys keep driving vehicles in the
[35:05] Speaker 1: parades and yeah, eventually they're going.
[35:07] Speaker 2: To come for you, bro, that's I think that's racist.
[35:10] Speaker 1: Bro. Why does it keep happening every Christmas?
[35:14] Speaker 2: Why keep happening?
[35:16] Speaker 1: Why why keep attacking people on Christian howadays?
[35:20] Speaker 2: You know, when the thing is the thing is you
[35:22] Speaker 2: know when when a when a sick person, that is
[35:26] Speaker 2: that's a sick person. You know, that's someone that that
[35:30] Speaker 2: just just just one moment, someone that goes and kills
[35:33] Speaker 2: random people, civilians. That's that's wrong. And slams not allowed.
[35:38] Speaker 2: And you know if they are crazy or something. No,
[35:41] Speaker 2: the people, it doesn't they don't look if that they
[35:44] Speaker 2: are crazy. They just say, no, he was Muslim and
[35:47] Speaker 2: he did that because he was a Muslim.
[35:49] Speaker 1: Why don't you find Christians doing that? Like when the
[35:52] Speaker 1: last time I saw a Christian driving a vehicle into
[35:56] Speaker 1: a like a Hindu parade.
[36:01] Speaker 2: Yeah, m yeah, that's you know, that's like a very
[36:06] Speaker 2: specific kind of kind of situation. But you know, the biggest,
[36:11] Speaker 2: the biggest terrorists in the world, I do believe it,
[36:13] Speaker 2: it is Christians, you guys.
[36:17] Speaker 1: In fact, my ex wife had to immigrate from Egypt.
[36:21] Speaker 1: Her family and all of our relatives immigrated from Egypt
[36:25] Speaker 1: over to Canada because the Muslim community and there kept
[36:28] Speaker 1: trying to kill them. That's why they immigrated.
[36:32] Speaker 2: They didn't.
[36:33] Speaker 1: They didn't, they didn't grow up thinking and love to
[36:35] Speaker 1: leave this country. They left Egypt because your religion kept
[36:38] Speaker 1: trying to murder them for not being in their religion.
[36:43] Speaker 1: Because you guys are violent psychopaths. Your religion is not
[36:46] Speaker 1: a religion of the peace. It's a religion of violence
[36:49] Speaker 1: and pedophilia. Why of all the death threats I get online,
[36:54] Speaker 1: nine out of ten of them come from your religion.
[36:56] Speaker 1: Because you guys are all violent psychopaths.
[37:00] Speaker 2: We are all me too, especially you me me as
[37:04] Speaker 2: a person.
[37:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, I have no idea who you are. But if
[37:08] Speaker 1: push comes a shove, I can guarantee if somebody threatens
[37:11] Speaker 1: your religion, you will resort to violence.
[37:14] Speaker 2: Well do you have three? You have? You have, like
[37:16] Speaker 2: you know, been very condescening. I'm very disuspectful towards my religion.
[37:21] Speaker 1: Because your religion is disgusting, and so are you.
[37:25] Speaker 2: Or you you really feel I like that? Yeah, I think.
[37:28] Speaker 2: I think that you have very much in a hate
[37:29] Speaker 2: inside of you.
[37:31] Speaker 1: I don't have hate for you, I have hate for
[37:33] Speaker 1: your religion. If you stop being a Muslim today, I'd
[37:37] Speaker 1: welcome you into the Fold. I don't care what you
[37:39] Speaker 1: convert to. You can convert to Islam, not Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity,
[37:44] Speaker 1: you could become an atheist. I would champion this decision.
[37:48] Speaker 1: Your religion is the most destructive religion on the planet.
[37:51] Speaker 1: Only the only thing that comes close is medieval Christianity.
[37:55] Speaker 1: Medieval Christianity used to be the most destructive, and they
[37:58] Speaker 1: seem to have gone on course.
[38:00] Speaker 2: Correction, irern't to the United States of America. Yeah, Christian country.
[38:06] Speaker 1: I don't know why you keep trying to find my
[38:08] Speaker 1: location because you're violent your people to come for me.
[38:11] Speaker 1: Why do I why do I keep getting death rates
[38:13] Speaker 1: from your people? Maybe because you're a violent.
[38:15] Speaker 2: I said, I said that, I said that, aren't. I'm
[38:19] Speaker 2: not talking about where you are. I'm talking about the
[38:21] Speaker 2: United States of America. Are they a Christian country?
[38:25] Speaker 1: No, we have a secular government.
[38:31] Speaker 4: Up on the screen, I'm sorry.
[38:35] Speaker 2: What was that?
[38:38] Speaker 4: Nine one fife.
[38:42] Speaker 6: Six nine one fife?
[38:44] Speaker 1: Yes, all right, let me grab it. Yeah, so he abacari, And.
[38:52] Speaker 4: The important point is like the last three sentences, all right.
[38:55] Speaker 1: Let me grab it real quick. Should be on souna
[38:59] Speaker 1: dot com. I'm in, uh Sahi abakari sixty nine. What
[39:04] Speaker 1: was the rest of the reference? That's sixteen sixty nine
[39:08] Speaker 1: fifteen Okay, give me one second. I don't know if
[39:15] Speaker 1: I actually found it. Hold on, let me just google
[39:17] Speaker 1: it because it didn't come up on the Souna website.
[39:21] Speaker 8: Sorry about that, Abacarien well, Hitler, you Christian.
[39:33] Speaker 1: That's not true. So Hitler, it is true. It's not true.
[39:36] Speaker 1: So Hitler founded a church for the German people. But
[39:40] Speaker 1: he was very open about not being a Christian. So
[39:44] Speaker 1: I think I found it. Book sixty nine Hadith fifteen
[39:47] Speaker 1: in Sahi Bukari, right, and it says, I don't know
[39:53] Speaker 1: if I can make it bigger. Let me see all
[39:57] Speaker 1: as messengers said, the best women among the camel riders
[40:01] Speaker 1: are the women of Kiash. Another narrator said, the prophet said,
[40:06] Speaker 1: the righteous among the women of Kurash.
[40:09] Speaker 4: I'm sorry what you have the wrong one?
[40:11] Speaker 6: You have the wrong one.
[40:12] Speaker 4: It says, yeah, it is only three six six.
[40:17] Speaker 1: You see that fifteen or fifty?
[40:21] Speaker 4: Yes it is no, it is six to nine.
[40:25] Speaker 1: Oh six. I thought you were talking about like, okay,
[40:28] Speaker 1: chapter and verse, okay, okay, yeah, so six nine one
[40:31] Speaker 1: five I apologize. That makes a big difference. Actually, And
[40:36] Speaker 1: you know.
[40:37] Speaker 2: Bush Bush he was he was a Christian and he
[40:39] Speaker 2: ordered the killing of it was back. It was behind
[40:42] Speaker 2: the killing of two million iraqis.
[40:45] Speaker 1: Yeah, I disagree with Bush.
[40:46] Speaker 2: By the way, he was a Christian. Though he was
[40:48] Speaker 2: a Christian, I.
[40:49] Speaker 1: Know, and I disagree with Bush yes, yes, I don't
[40:53] Speaker 1: believe what he did was good. He was a bad person.
[40:56] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[40:56] Speaker 4: Last the last four sentences, if you can read them.
[41:00] Speaker 1: Please absolutely. I got it right here. So it says
[41:03] Speaker 1: we have nothing except what is in the Quran and
[41:06] Speaker 1: the ability of understanding Allah's book.
[41:09] Speaker 2: Where are you reading reading?
[41:13] Speaker 1: Were you not present for the last five minutes of
[41:15] Speaker 1: this discussion?
[41:16] Speaker 2: No, no, no, you are reading something now.
[41:18] Speaker 1: But I'll read it and then I'll cry about it.
[41:20] Speaker 1: It says he may endow a man with uh with
[41:24] Speaker 1: And what is written in the sheet of paper? I asked,
[41:27] Speaker 1: what is on this paper? He replied, the legal regulations
[41:31] Speaker 1: of daya blood money and the ransom for releasing the captives,
[41:36] Speaker 1: and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed on
[41:40] Speaker 1: kisis equality and punishment for killing a kafir a disbeliever.
[41:46] Speaker 4: So there's this is imputing because if only is a
[41:51] Speaker 4: Muslim deslike to a not Muslim, there is no there
[41:55] Speaker 4: is no eye for eye punishment for me, which is
[41:58] Speaker 4: the punishment for murderer.
[42:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, is this in the case of Is this in
[42:02] Speaker 2: the case of war, or is this in the case.
[42:05] Speaker 4: This is normally this is within fact that is normally
[42:08] Speaker 4: within all times that if a Muslim and lives and
[42:10] Speaker 4: non Muslim there is no there is no retribution in
[42:14] Speaker 4: kind for the punishment, and if a free mannif's a sleeve,
[42:19] Speaker 4: there is no casos for the safe either.
[42:21] Speaker 2: Well is it is talking about captives there, so captives
[42:24] Speaker 2: it all.
[42:25] Speaker 4: Means exactly, it's talking about captives, but the rest of
[42:28] Speaker 4: it is not talking about captives, because why would you
[42:31] Speaker 4: need christos if you're going into war and killing someone
[42:34] Speaker 4: in battle? Cristance the mention of cristals and dya is
[42:37] Speaker 4: specifically when you on life someone outside of the context
[42:40] Speaker 4: of war.
[42:41] Speaker 2: Well, well you know when it comes to cross us
[42:43] Speaker 2: and and the fact I'm not very knowledgeable on that,
[42:48] Speaker 2: so I can't I can't say any much of it,
[42:51] Speaker 2: you know.
[42:53] Speaker 1: Sure, Well listen, Liban, it's been fun talking to you.
[42:57] Speaker 1: I think we've gone about as far as we can
[43:00] Speaker 1: go in the conversation. I hope you reconsider your pervert
[43:03] Speaker 1: profit and maybe if you really have to join a religion,
[43:07] Speaker 1: join one that doesn't believe in violence and subjugation and pedophilia,
[43:11] Speaker 1: but have.
[43:13] Speaker 2: A good one. It was.
[43:18] Speaker 1: That's rough, and thank you so much for being here.
[43:21] Speaker 1: Hang out with me. Let me grab a couple of
[43:23] Speaker 1: super chats, and.
[43:25] Speaker 4: Yeah, I wanted to tell you that one of the
[43:28] Speaker 4: one of the reasons that pre peoples and girls when
[43:30] Speaker 4: they have intercourse, they're more likely to have tears is
[43:34] Speaker 4: because reaching puberty as a girl, it owns up extra
[43:37] Speaker 4: stone lightnings within your vagina. So then it's it's bent
[43:41] Speaker 4: as a way to protect against trauma. Oh shit, I
[43:44] Speaker 4: just know that their money takes a lot of like
[43:48] Speaker 4: different like precautions once you hit puberty to prevent trauma
[43:53] Speaker 4: to the vagina.
[43:54] Speaker 1: I had no idea. That's crazy. Thank you for that information.
[43:58] Speaker 1: I'm going to use that in the future. Techno Manser Magis,
[44:03] Speaker 1: thank you for the superchat says, have you tried turning
[44:05] Speaker 1: the guests off and then on again? Yeah, we're refrain
[44:08] Speaker 1: to what we're talking about earlier. That's good. We got
[44:11] Speaker 1: a bunch of subscribers here on TikTok. Thank you so much,
[44:14] Speaker 1: Bad Religion and Kelly James and not that Dan Brown
[44:18] Speaker 1: and also Michelle Backwards and the one who the one
[44:24] Speaker 1: who knocks, thank you so much for becoming subscribers on
[44:27] Speaker 1: TikTok and Dexter in the House sending out five Subby's
[44:31] Speaker 1: right off the bat. Thank you so much, Dexter, I
[44:33] Speaker 1: really appreciate that. And again Scott gifting five Deconstruction Zoned memberships,
[44:38] Speaker 1: Big W. Scott, I really appreciate that. And Tim upgrading
[44:43] Speaker 1: to Crack and Crew Elite. You got the access to
[44:45] Speaker 1: the cheat sheet now and Jake, how good to see
[44:47] Speaker 1: you in the house tonight, my friend. Thank you for
[44:50] Speaker 1: the three dollars super thanks and Emir getting in on it.
[44:53] Speaker 1: Amir gifting a Deconstruction Zone membership. Thank you so much, Amir,
[44:56] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And Eric, good to see you tonight.
[44:59] Speaker 1: Eric the ten dollar Superjet says, smash the pagan hallmark
[45:02] Speaker 1: God today and give all thanks and praise to the
[45:05] Speaker 1: one true Creator. Doug and his infinite consort Sharon Stone,
[45:10] Speaker 1: All Hill, the all hail Doug and Sharon Stone and
[45:14] Speaker 1: their son Rocky. They instantiate all possibilities and hold the
[45:19] Speaker 1: world together. And Tim, tim jumping on the train and
[45:23] Speaker 1: gifting five Deconstruction Zone memberships, Big W. Tim, I really
[45:27] Speaker 1: appreciate that. And David H. Says, this Muslim guy's is sick. Oh.
[45:31] Speaker 1: I know, because it's a sick religion. I believe if
[45:35] Speaker 1: it wasn't for Islam, he might have been a normal individual.
[45:37] Speaker 1: By the way, he'd probably be perfectly normal. Doctor Joe
[45:41] Speaker 1: and JT and Carrie just subscribed on TikTok. Big w
[45:45] Speaker 1: Doctor Joe, JT, and Carrie for subbing on TikTok. I
[45:48] Speaker 1: appreciate that. And Evan with the duder superjet says a
[45:52] Speaker 1: pedo guest is clearly not a pediatrician. Ick, he's not.
[45:56] Speaker 1: And there's a reason why the modern world it rejects
[46:01] Speaker 1: child marriage. It's dangerous, it's hazardous, it's wrong. Also, thank
[46:06] Speaker 1: you for the super chat. I think it's a I'm
[46:09] Speaker 1: gonna call you bar Barbie maybe says this guy is disgusting.
[46:13] Speaker 1: He's just defending petos. That's exactly what he's doing. Yes,
[46:16] Speaker 1: he's up here defending pedophilia. Think about your religion, what
[46:20] Speaker 1: your religion causes you to do. If it causes you
[46:22] Speaker 1: to defend kitty diddlers, and guess what, maybe it's not
[46:25] Speaker 1: the right religion. Ben, thank you so much for the fight.
[46:28] Speaker 1: Our superchat says I was at Walmart. Bill was fifty dollars.
[46:32] Speaker 1: When I told the cashier that fifty dollars was spiritual
[46:35] Speaker 1: and not physical. And she didn't understand context didn't go well,
[46:39] Speaker 1: big big, big w Ben, I appreciate that. That's a
[46:43] Speaker 1: good one. Yeah. I love it when Christians or people
[46:47] Speaker 1: of a religion say that, like, well, something happened or
[46:50] Speaker 1: prophecy was fulfilled, but it was fulfilled spiritually, as if
[46:53] Speaker 1: that means something. And Ken, thank you so much for
[46:57] Speaker 1: giving away a subscription. Ken and Nolan, thank you for
[47:02] Speaker 1: the twenty hour super chat says twenty hours to please
[47:04] Speaker 1: explain how Adam and Eve populated the earth and later
[47:07] Speaker 1: Noah's family of eight. Thanks. Well, that's the crazy thing is,
[47:12] Speaker 1: like you have to believe that God did a miracle, right,
[47:16] Speaker 1: that's the only way to do it. You have to
[47:17] Speaker 1: believe that God did a miracle, that he allowed them
[47:20] Speaker 1: to procreate at a rate never seen before in all
[47:22] Speaker 1: of history, and that the children just miraculously survived, and
[47:27] Speaker 1: also that there weren't any genetic abnormalities that were caused
[47:32] Speaker 1: by the many generations of incest. There's also crazy problems
[47:36] Speaker 1: in the Adam and Eve story too, like, for example,
[47:39] Speaker 1: like two generations after Adam and Eve, they're already doing
[47:43] Speaker 1: iron metallurgy, Like we're way before that, we're two thousand
[47:48] Speaker 1: years before the Iron Age. They're not smelting iron.
[47:52] Speaker 4: And the thing is, you're gonna have to be arguing
[47:54] Speaker 4: for a very very accelerated evolution for them to produce
[47:58] Speaker 4: the genetic that we.
[48:00] Speaker 1: See, right, that's a great point. Yeah. Also, Dad big
[48:05] Speaker 1: w for the super Chest says, excuse me, Islam is gross.
[48:09] Speaker 1: Mohammed was a PDF file and this color personifies disgust.
[48:13] Speaker 1: I agree, which is why I bring it up with everyone.
[48:16] Speaker 1: And a you're thank you for the fight our super
[48:18] Speaker 1: chest says, who is em the final boss that comes
[48:20] Speaker 1: in for Muslims? Can we follow him anywhere? He's amazing,
[48:23] Speaker 1: all Hill, Doug, he is amazing. And Em is on TikTok.
[48:27] Speaker 1: If you're on my TikTok stream, you can follow him
[48:29] Speaker 1: right now while he's in the guest box. M do
[48:31] Speaker 1: you have a YouTube profile?
[48:33] Speaker 4: I don't know, okay, if it's like a personal one,
[48:35] Speaker 4: but I don't think.
[48:36] Speaker 1: Videos, okay, So just on TikTok. So, guys, if you
[48:39] Speaker 1: want to follow M, which I suggest you do, join
[48:41] Speaker 1: the discord. You can dialogue with M in the discord
[48:45] Speaker 1: and then you can also connect with him here on TikTok.
[48:48] Speaker 1: And he's a beloved creator here on TikTok Master Sheeter,
[48:52] Speaker 1: thank you for the fight. Dour super Chest says Justin.
[48:54] Speaker 1: You have no morals, you say, I'm sick. I know
[48:57] Speaker 1: because I won't diddle children. Unreally, here is my single
[49:01] Speaker 1: digit age ol life. I know, guys, I have no morals.
[49:05] Speaker 1: I am wrong for thinking you should let a person
[49:08] Speaker 1: be an adult when they get married. Ben, thank you
[49:11] Speaker 1: for the bidoar. Super Chat says Genesis ten five the
[49:16] Speaker 1: Mara Timeme. I don't know what that means. Mara Timme
[49:21] Speaker 1: nations branched out, each with its language. Genesis eleven one,
[49:27] Speaker 1: everyone had the same language. Can you comment on this weirdness.
[49:31] Speaker 1: I'm not sure that's really what it says. I'd be
[49:34] Speaker 1: curious to know what your translation is that you're using.
[49:38] Speaker 1: Let me grab the new revised standard version real quick
[49:43] Speaker 1: and see what we got going on here. I've never
[49:46] Speaker 1: noticed this before. I feel like I would have noticed this,
[49:49] Speaker 1: although sometimes there are contraditions in texts that even I
[49:52] Speaker 1: don't notice. So it says in justis ten to five
[49:55] Speaker 1: from these coastland people spread. These are the descendants of
[49:59] Speaker 1: j in their lands with their own language by their families.
[50:03] Speaker 1: Oh ey, see you're saying, Okay, yeah, yeah, I don't
[50:06] Speaker 1: think this is a contradiction. I realized that it might
[50:08] Speaker 1: sound like a contradiction. But to me, this is an
[50:11] Speaker 1: editorial note for the fact that at the time of
[50:15] Speaker 1: writing they had their own language, if that makes sense.
[50:18] Speaker 1: I don't think that he's saying that when they spread,
[50:21] Speaker 1: like as the children of Jpeth spread, they developed their
[50:26] Speaker 1: own language. I don't read it that way. It just
[50:28] Speaker 1: says that that they were in they are they currently are.
[50:32] Speaker 1: Says these are the descendants of Jpeth in their own
[50:35] Speaker 1: lands with their own language, referring to their present time.
[50:38] Speaker 1: So that's how I'm reading it. But I definitely understand
[50:40] Speaker 1: how you could look at that and think that we've
[50:43] Speaker 1: got some anachronistic features going on. Ask good to see
[50:50] Speaker 1: you tonight. Every girl in Islam is in immediate danger.
[50:54] Speaker 3: I agree.
[50:55] Speaker 1: If you're a woman in Islam, I would be afraid
[50:58] Speaker 1: for your life. If you have a daughter in in
[51:00] Speaker 1: Islam and country, I'm afraid for your daughter's life. And
[51:03] Speaker 1: as again says, what grown ass man even wants a
[51:06] Speaker 1: nine year old? That's what I was trying to say.
[51:08] Speaker 1: What what are you doing with a nine year old.
[51:11] Speaker 1: What could you possibly have in common with a nine
[51:13] Speaker 1: year old?
[51:13] Speaker 4: And the funny thing is that the prophet and his friends,
[51:16] Speaker 4: all four of his friends, used to marry each other's daughters.
[51:19] Speaker 4: We had a friend who buried both of his daughters.
[51:22] Speaker 4: It's sick, so he married he married one of her,
[51:24] Speaker 4: one of them, and that she don't and then the
[51:26] Speaker 4: prophet married him another one.
[51:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, these people are gross. Doug would never and Dade,
[51:33] Speaker 1: you're thank you for the superchest, says Doug one one.
[51:36] Speaker 1: People in glass houses shouldn't throw Doug amen, I believe
[51:40] Speaker 1: that that is wise advice from Doug and Blumpkin. Lumpkin,
[51:45] Speaker 1: thank you for the super chest, says hide your kids,
[51:47] Speaker 1: hide your wife. He has hide your kids and your
[51:49] Speaker 1: wife from Islam. And Emir, thank you for the five
[51:52] Speaker 1: dollars supertest says driving into a crowd is bad. Yes,
[51:55] Speaker 1: somehow killing people for not believing your God is good?
[51:58] Speaker 1: Make it make sense? Isn't that wild? That's a very
[52:00] Speaker 1: good double standard. You pointed out a mirror. He thinks
[52:02] Speaker 1: that only sick people would drive a vehicle into a
[52:06] Speaker 1: crowd of like bystanders, But it's okay to murder ex
[52:09] Speaker 1: Muslims just because they no longer are part.
[52:11] Speaker 2: Of the faith.
[52:12] Speaker 1: Chet, thank you so much for the gifts. I appreciate that. Buddy,
[52:14] Speaker 1: good to see you tonight. And Texas Panhandler, thank you
[52:17] Speaker 1: for the six sixty six is Happy Friday, Justin. Doug
[52:20] Speaker 1: is rock hard for us, and so we shall be
[52:23] Speaker 1: for him. Doug is rock hard for you, guys, and
[52:26] Speaker 1: so you know that Doug is never ever flasted for you.
[52:30] Speaker 1: And last one, Dade, thank you so much for the
[52:32] Speaker 1: two dollars superchest that says bro is thoroughly and satisfyingly
[52:35] Speaker 1: cooked el Islam. I agree. Actually we got one more
[52:39] Speaker 1: related to this. Thank you so much, act me for
[52:41] Speaker 1: the ten hour superchest. It says children cannot give a consent. Yes,
[52:45] Speaker 1: I don't care when you've hit Peberty. I don't care.
[52:50] Speaker 1: Children don't have the mental capacity to give the consent
[52:53] Speaker 1: and our c Thank you for the supertest, said read
[52:56] Speaker 1: Christ before Jesus debate Jared. I know Jared personally. He's
[52:59] Speaker 1: a friend of mine. I'm not sure he's even interested
[53:02] Speaker 1: in in debating me, but I will get around to
[53:04] Speaker 1: reading his book. I already bought it, and bad thank
[53:08] Speaker 1: you for the supertest says for you are justin all
[53:11] Speaker 1: you have done, all your works are true, and all
[53:13] Speaker 1: your ways right, and your judgments are true. Prayer of
[53:16] Speaker 1: Azaraiah one for look it up. Yeah, big w I'm
[53:19] Speaker 1: gonna have to look that up. I haven't read the
[53:20] Speaker 1: Prayer of Azarayah in a couple of years, I think
[53:23] Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. But let me grab the next guest from
[53:26] Speaker 1: the Q guys, and we'll keep the we'll keep the
[53:28] Speaker 1: live stream rolling. I'm gonna grab Aaron. See if Aaron
[53:32] Speaker 1: can connect.
[53:37] Speaker 4: Yeah, so the funny think recluding the the supertest that's
[53:40] Speaker 4: a children cannot consent. The funnily you know Islam agreez.
[53:44] Speaker 4: It just doesn't better because the contract is between the
[53:46] Speaker 4: founder and the husband. Right, your fund literally going out.
[53:50] Speaker 4: You had to come back and tell you where. Well,
[53:51] Speaker 4: here's your marriage contract.
[53:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, because they're the property. The women are property. It's crazy.
[54:00] Speaker 1: These religious elets are wild, all right. So this guest
[54:03] Speaker 1: is not connecting. I'm sorry, Aaron. If you're still here,
[54:06] Speaker 1: jump back in the queue and we'll you know, we'll
[54:08] Speaker 1: try to get you in, but we're going to keep
[54:11] Speaker 1: on moving on, guys. Let me grab the next guest.
[54:16] Speaker 1: Sma Smazy smasy, We'll see Hi.
[54:20] Speaker 6: Hello carey, Yeah, I can hear you.
[54:23] Speaker 1: Is it smazy?
[54:25] Speaker 6: Yeah, you can say smazy.
[54:26] Speaker 1: How you doing smazy? Are you at least eighteen? And
[54:29] Speaker 1: are you a believer in some kind of a god?
[54:32] Speaker 6: Yes, I'm twenty two and I believe Jesus is Lord
[54:35] Speaker 6: and Christ awesome.
[54:36] Speaker 1: And what would be the best evidence or the most
[54:39] Speaker 1: reasonable argument for why this is the case?
[54:42] Speaker 6: Because of the evidence of the historicity of the resurrection,
[54:44] Speaker 6: the empty tomb, and the fact that we can find
[54:46] Speaker 6: the bones of Jesus Christ.
[54:48] Speaker 1: Can you prove that he was put in a tomb
[54:50] Speaker 1: at all based on.
[54:51] Speaker 6: That witness testimony?
[54:53] Speaker 4: On what they say?
[54:54] Speaker 1: Oh, who are the eyewitnesses?
[54:56] Speaker 6: Matthew, Mark Luke, Matthew. He was a witness of the week.
[55:00] Speaker 1: I didn't write anything, Yes he did from Matthew.
[55:04] Speaker 2: Yes, how do you show me in.
[55:05] Speaker 1: The Book of Matthew where he says I Matthew wrote.
[55:07] Speaker 6: This argument of silence fallacy. He doesn't have to say
[55:10] Speaker 6: to prove he didn't. Okay, then Matthew was written by Matthew.
[55:14] Speaker 6: Because we have the church history. Can you show me
[55:16] Speaker 6: where in church history where they said Matthew was written
[55:18] Speaker 6: by someone else here we go.
[55:20] Speaker 1: So are you aware that Matthew wrote after Mark and
[55:22] Speaker 1: he copied from Mark?
[55:24] Speaker 6: That's not my question, that's no way, that's my questions
[55:26] Speaker 6: that I asked you.
[55:27] Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, I know. I'm helping you to understand
[55:29] Speaker 1: my position. My position Mark was Mark was written about
[55:34] Speaker 1: seventy CE. Matthew and Luke copied directly from Mark, which
[55:39] Speaker 1: means Matthew and Luke had to have been written.
[55:42] Speaker 6: Claiming that you're not proving Matthew.
[55:45] Speaker 1: And Mark written after Mark. So I'll just pull you
[55:51] Speaker 1: up the Mark in priority charts, the first Mark was
[55:56] Speaker 1: written around and Matthew copy directly from Mark. Are you
[56:01] Speaker 1: aware of this?
[56:03] Speaker 6: You said the Matthew didn't write Matthew.
[56:05] Speaker 1: How do you know that I'm working on it? Just
[56:07] Speaker 1: hold your fucking horses. We had to go one step
[56:11] Speaker 1: out of time since you don't know anything about this topic. No,
[56:14] Speaker 1: I do know asking the question, So are you aware
[56:17] Speaker 1: of Mark and priority?
[56:18] Speaker 2: Yes or no?
[56:20] Speaker 6: That's what I just said. I did say Matthew. I
[56:22] Speaker 6: said Mark was written first before Matthew.
[56:24] Speaker 1: And Mark is generally dated to about seventy CE. Correct?
[56:29] Speaker 6: Do you know why it's data?
[56:30] Speaker 3: Though?
[56:30] Speaker 6: Way?
[56:30] Speaker 1: I know why it's just a yes or no. We're
[56:32] Speaker 1: trying to get there next. Yeah, okay, So okay, So
[56:38] Speaker 1: if Mark was written roughly around seventy CE, and Matthew
[56:41] Speaker 1: and Louke copy from Mark, that means Matthew and Luke
[56:44] Speaker 1: had to been written post seventy correct.
[56:46] Speaker 6: How do you know Matthew copied from Mark.
[56:48] Speaker 1: Because we have long strings of copying between Matthew and Mark,
[56:53] Speaker 1: even in the same Greek word order. I think we
[56:55] Speaker 1: find the same, and we find the same.
[56:58] Speaker 6: You an example, We're in Matthew, and so.
[57:02] Speaker 1: We have long chains of copied Greek texts from.
[57:06] Speaker 6: Give an example that shows Matthew and Mark.
[57:10] Speaker 1: So we have long strings of Greek texts from Mark
[57:14] Speaker 1: that show up in both Luke and also in Matthew.
[57:18] Speaker 6: And what's interesting is an example Mark.
[57:21] Speaker 1: And so what's interesting is that in the text that's
[57:25] Speaker 1: copied from Mark, a lot of times it retains the
[57:28] Speaker 1: same bad grammar preaching.
[57:30] Speaker 6: Bro give me an example.
[57:32] Speaker 1: I'm not going to give you anything until you listen
[57:34] Speaker 1: to why market priority is the consensus among scholars.
[57:40] Speaker 6: That's well, that's not.
[57:42] Speaker 1: Okay. So anyways, a long and short of it is,
[57:45] Speaker 1: if you actually were reading the Greek text, Like if
[57:48] Speaker 1: you laid it out in Greek, what you would find
[57:50] Speaker 1: is the parts that were copied, The parts that were
[57:53] Speaker 1: copied from Mark retain a lot of the bad grammar
[57:57] Speaker 1: from Mark that you don't find in narratives that are
[58:00] Speaker 1: only in Luke or narratives that are only in Matthew.
[58:04] Speaker 1: The type of Greek that we find in Matthew and
[58:06] Speaker 1: Luke is all together different from the poor Greek that
[58:08] Speaker 1: we find in the Book of Mark. And what we
[58:12] Speaker 1: do find is that there are Matthew and Luke are
[58:17] Speaker 1: actually correcting the text of Mark. So for example, in
[58:20] Speaker 1: Matthew Chapter two, verse twenty five and twenty six, Mark
[58:24] Speaker 1: makes a blunder. Mark says that abby Athar is the
[58:27] Speaker 1: high priest, and it actually wasn't. It was a Himmelecht
[58:30] Speaker 1: that was the high priest. When Matthews this text in
[58:34] Speaker 1: chapter twelve, Matthew just fixes it. So what we find
[58:37] Speaker 1: is that in Matthew and Luke they go out and
[58:41] Speaker 1: they fix some of the problems that are in Mark,
[58:43] Speaker 1: like the problems that are you can't really overlook. So
[58:47] Speaker 1: this is one of the many reasons it does.
[58:50] Speaker 6: If they copied the hold on, if they copyed like
[58:53] Speaker 6: you posited. That would prove that they would copy the
[58:55] Speaker 6: exact same thing as Mark did. So that means you
[58:57] Speaker 6: just defeated you.
[58:58] Speaker 1: Only they did. So we'll try this again in So
[59:01] Speaker 1: if they didn't.
[59:02] Speaker 6: Mark, why didn't they copy the exact same thing?
[59:04] Speaker 1: So in Mark, what we find is that we have
[59:07] Speaker 1: a very rustic text and there are many sections of
[59:10] Speaker 1: that text that get copied word for word into Matthew
[59:18] Speaker 1: with you and Luke. So there are word for word
[59:21] Speaker 1: agreement between Matthew and Luke with what we find in Mark.
[59:26] Speaker 6: You didn't prove that.
[59:28] Speaker 1: Do you read Dreek?
[59:30] Speaker 2: Do you?
[59:31] Speaker 1: I used to read Dreek.
[59:32] Speaker 6: I can probably do it, so you're doing it anymore.
[59:36] Speaker 1: I could still read Dreek. I just need a dictionary.
[59:39] Speaker 6: So that's an appeal to authority, fellas.
[59:41] Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, appeal to forty follas.
[59:45] Speaker 2: Greek?
[59:46] Speaker 1: Okay, so you don't know anything about Greek. You don't
[59:52] Speaker 1: know anything about Mark and.
[59:54] Speaker 3: I do?
[59:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, I do you don't, Okay, Yes, I agree. I agree.
[1:00:01] Speaker 1: It means Lord in Greek.
[1:00:02] Speaker 2: I know.
[1:00:03] Speaker 1: So I agree with what scholarship teaches, So I priority
[1:00:10] Speaker 1: I think the scholars have a very good reason for
[1:00:13] Speaker 1: Mark and priority, and I have no reason to believe
[1:00:18] Speaker 1: that Matthew wrote math.
[1:00:20] Speaker 6: I think that's right.
[1:00:22] Speaker 1: I think the most convincing evidence that Matthew didn't write
[1:00:25] Speaker 1: Matthew is that Matthew copied his own conversion story from Mark.
[1:00:30] Speaker 1: Why would why would Matthew write his own conversion or
[1:00:35] Speaker 1: copy his own conversion story from Mark?
[1:00:38] Speaker 2: Well?
[1:00:39] Speaker 6: Wait, how's the question?
[1:00:40] Speaker 1: Why would Matthew copy his own conversion story from Mark?
[1:00:46] Speaker 6: Was the evidence that he did copy.
[1:00:48] Speaker 1: Because it was written after and he was talking about
[1:00:51] Speaker 1: himself in the third person.
[1:00:53] Speaker 6: So what kind of a kind of a person?
[1:00:55] Speaker 1: What kind of a person tells his own story in
[1:00:57] Speaker 1: the third person?
[1:00:59] Speaker 6: Well, to give a hospel, tell the people so they
[1:01:01] Speaker 6: can know the story.
[1:01:01] Speaker 1: Over this again.
[1:01:05] Speaker 6: Again, the third conversion story and the third person the
[1:01:09] Speaker 6: same way. They're trying to make a message to give
[1:01:11] Speaker 6: to other people in the third person, so they do.
[1:01:14] Speaker 1: You think that Matthew knew more about his own conversion
[1:01:17] Speaker 1: experience more than Mark?
[1:01:19] Speaker 6: It doesn't matter if he does or doesn't. If he
[1:01:21] Speaker 6: wrote it, it's written.
[1:01:23] Speaker 1: Yeah, But question is question. The question is why do
[1:01:27] Speaker 1: you believe that Matthew wrote Matthew? Because there's no evidence
[1:01:30] Speaker 1: that Matthew.
[1:01:32] Speaker 6: Okay, let me let me tell you why I prove
[1:01:33] Speaker 6: there's no evidence that just an appeal to was ignorance.
[1:01:37] Speaker 2: No, no, no.
[1:01:37] Speaker 1: Saying that there's no evidence doesn't require evidence. So you're
[1:01:41] Speaker 1: the ondence that Matthew wrote, Matthew, the only evidence you
[1:01:45] Speaker 1: have comes for hundreds of years later.
[1:01:47] Speaker 6: No, and you're saying that's evidence, right.
[1:01:52] Speaker 1: Yeah, I would count it as evidence, but I don't
[1:01:54] Speaker 1: think it's good evidence. Why why don't the same church
[1:01:58] Speaker 1: father is that Matthew wrote, matth you said a bunch
[1:02:00] Speaker 1: of other things. So you just got a couple of problems.
[1:02:06] Speaker 6: You got to a problem, Let me speak.
[1:02:07] Speaker 1: Then you've got a couple of problems. You got a
[1:02:11] Speaker 1: couple of problems.
[1:02:12] Speaker 6: Here, which let me speak.
[1:02:15] Speaker 1: I would love to let you speak if you didn't
[1:02:17] Speaker 1: want to speak in the middle of all my sentences.
[1:02:21] Speaker 1: So did you want to have an adult dialogue or
[1:02:23] Speaker 1: did you want to let me talk over you every time.
[1:02:28] Speaker 6: We speak?
[1:02:30] Speaker 1: I asked you a question, do you want to have
[1:02:31] Speaker 1: an adult dialogue or do you want me to just
[1:02:33] Speaker 1: interrupt you all the time?
[1:02:34] Speaker 6: Well, it depends on you. Depends on you.
[1:02:36] Speaker 1: It depends on you.
[1:02:38] Speaker 6: It depends on you. Notes you.
[1:02:39] Speaker 1: Okay, if it depends on me, I'll just meet you.
[1:02:42] Speaker 1: I'll keep doing what I've been doing.
[1:02:43] Speaker 6: So you're going to keep preaching.
[1:02:45] Speaker 1: I'm going to keep muting you every time you interrupt
[1:02:47] Speaker 1: preaching and preaching. Okay, okay, So what's the evidence that
[1:02:50] Speaker 1: Matthew Matthew other than some early church fathers said?
[1:02:53] Speaker 6: So prove that what the early church father said is wrong.
[1:02:59] Speaker 1: Prove that it's right. Because if your position is true,
[1:03:03] Speaker 1: because someone says.
[1:03:04] Speaker 6: Speak, just let me speak, let me speak.
[1:03:06] Speaker 5: Right.
[1:03:07] Speaker 6: So, if Matthew was anonymous and was written by anonymous sources,
[1:03:11] Speaker 6: would they may be confusion on who wrote Matthew?
[1:03:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, there was confusion on who the confusion?
[1:03:18] Speaker 6: Okay, good, got it? So where is the confusion?
[1:03:21] Speaker 1: Yeah? So there was confusion in the early Church about
[1:03:23] Speaker 1: who wrote what? Are you aware of this?
[1:03:25] Speaker 6: Okay? So give me an example where there was confusion
[1:03:28] Speaker 6: in the early Church. Wherever there was confusion, go ahead.
[1:03:30] Speaker 1: Because the early church fathers weren't even sure who wrote
[1:03:34] Speaker 1: the earliest gospels. There's talking to the early church. Where
[1:03:36] Speaker 1: what's sake the early church writing? The early Church fathers
[1:03:43] Speaker 1: talk about a proto matthean gospel that was actually written
[1:03:47] Speaker 1: in Hebrew. They didn't even know what language it was written,
[1:03:51] Speaker 1: and it clearly wasn't originally written in Hebrew though, so,
[1:03:54] Speaker 1: and it also says that the earliest Gospel of our
[1:03:57] Speaker 1: theory also says that their earliest Gospel of Mark is
[1:04:00] Speaker 1: a sayings gospel, and Mark isn't the sayings gospel.
[1:04:05] Speaker 6: That's a theory.
[1:04:07] Speaker 1: So I'm still waking.
[1:04:09] Speaker 6: Wait, let me just go with what you just said. Wait,
[1:04:11] Speaker 6: let me just me what you just told me. Right,
[1:04:14] Speaker 6: according to what you just told me about the Hebrew thing,
[1:04:16] Speaker 6: which I know it's a theory because the early Church
[1:04:18] Speaker 6: brothers did writing Greek, not Hebrew. How does that even
[1:04:22] Speaker 6: still prove that Matthew is anonymous if the history putting
[1:04:25] Speaker 6: it as mad.
[1:04:26] Speaker 1: Because all of the earliest manuscripts are anonymous, there is
[1:04:30] Speaker 1: there's not.
[1:04:31] Speaker 6: Every there are no single wrong.
[1:04:34] Speaker 1: Are no first century manuscripts that say that say by
[1:04:39] Speaker 1: the hand of Matthew.
[1:04:41] Speaker 6: Every single manuscript that we have except for the one
[1:04:44] Speaker 6: in the first century, which is fragments, and we can't
[1:04:46] Speaker 6: see the entire thing said as the Gospel of Matthew,
[1:04:50] Speaker 6: the Gospel of Mark, the Gospel of Luke, the Gospel
[1:04:53] Speaker 6: of John, give me, okay, then give me give me
[1:04:57] Speaker 6: the name of the of the manuscript and the fragments
[1:04:59] Speaker 6: that tell you you that it's not Matthew, Mark, Luk
[1:05:02] Speaker 6: and John.
[1:05:02] Speaker 1: Go ahead, okay, I'll give you some manuscripts.
[1:05:07] Speaker 6: In the fourth century, not the first century, because they're fragments.
[1:05:11] Speaker 1: I don't care what century they came from. If there's
[1:05:13] Speaker 1: gospel manuscripts from it doesn't matter if there's gospelupt manuscripts
[1:05:18] Speaker 1: from the first.
[1:05:18] Speaker 6: Couple of centuries, because you don't have the power where.
[1:05:22] Speaker 1: If there are gospel manuscripts where the name of the
[1:05:25] Speaker 1: author would appear and they don't show the name of
[1:05:29] Speaker 1: the author, then that's evidence that there was no name
[1:05:32] Speaker 1: on the manuscript.
[1:05:33] Speaker 6: What century though, so we can just look up, Well.
[1:05:36] Speaker 1: Obviously the first couple of centuries, we don't care.
[1:05:38] Speaker 6: Okay, yeah, because in the first century, every manuscript is
[1:05:42] Speaker 6: a fragment, not completed manage.
[1:05:44] Speaker 1: I don't know why you asked me questions and then
[1:05:46] Speaker 1: you talk over my answers. Did you want to have
[1:05:49] Speaker 1: a discussion or do you want me to keep muting you?
[1:05:53] Speaker 6: It can keep muting the I'm just going to keep talking, Okay.
[1:05:55] Speaker 1: I'm just going to keepmuting you. Then okay, So what
[1:05:58] Speaker 1: is the earliest manuscript that has the name Matthew on it?
[1:06:02] Speaker 3: Wait?
[1:06:02] Speaker 6: Didn't you just hear what I said? There is no
[1:06:04] Speaker 6: first manuscript that has the name because we do not
[1:06:06] Speaker 6: see them.
[1:06:07] Speaker 1: So the earliest manuscripts don't have the name of Matthew
[1:06:10] Speaker 1: because they are fragments.
[1:06:12] Speaker 6: You can't see the part. Are you slow?
[1:06:14] Speaker 1: So the first manuscript that says Matthew?
[1:06:17] Speaker 6: What do you mean first manuscript?
[1:06:18] Speaker 1: You mean the first century, earliest manuscript that reached the
[1:06:22] Speaker 1: name of Matthew.
[1:06:24] Speaker 6: How do you know they changed the name? What's your
[1:06:25] Speaker 6: evidence that they changed?
[1:06:26] Speaker 1: I didn't say they changed the name.
[1:06:27] Speaker 6: You just said that.
[1:06:29] Speaker 1: Ch I didn't say that. You misheard me or repeated. So,
[1:06:34] Speaker 1: what is the earliest manuscript that retains the name Matthew? Sorry,
[1:06:40] Speaker 1: what is the earliest manuscript that contains the name of Matthew?
[1:06:48] Speaker 6: It doesn't have to if it's a fragment.
[1:06:51] Speaker 1: I'm asking you, what is the earliest manuscript that has answered?
[1:06:55] Speaker 1: I just answered that answer answered my question.
[1:06:58] Speaker 6: I just told you. I just answered that it doesn't
[1:07:00] Speaker 6: have to.
[1:07:01] Speaker 1: If we'll try this again, what is the earliest manuscript
[1:07:04] Speaker 1: that has.
[1:07:05] Speaker 6: I'll give you the same answer. By the way, do
[1:07:06] Speaker 6: it again.
[1:07:07] Speaker 1: We'll try this again. I'm not asking you if the
[1:07:09] Speaker 1: early manuscripts that are fragments didn't have the name. I'm
[1:07:12] Speaker 1: asking you, do you know what the earliest manuscript is
[1:07:15] Speaker 1: that does have the name? Do you know what manuscript?
[1:07:23] Speaker 6: Are going to keep mutimeric going to let me answer.
[1:07:25] Speaker 1: I'm asking you to answer the question that I answer.
[1:07:28] Speaker 6: Again the same way that you meet them again. They
[1:07:30] Speaker 6: don't have to have it if it's a fragment.
[1:07:33] Speaker 1: That wasn't my question. My question is what is the
[1:07:35] Speaker 1: first manuscript that does have it?
[1:07:38] Speaker 6: Say it again.
[1:07:40] Speaker 1: I'm asking about the first manage or the.
[1:07:42] Speaker 6: Completed manuscripts that we have that is in the first
[1:07:44] Speaker 6: fourth century, which is completed. Now we can know where
[1:07:47] Speaker 6: it is. That's where we are.
[1:07:48] Speaker 1: Yes, Sinaticus has it, Vaticanus has it. I'm aware of.
[1:07:52] Speaker 6: Those are the earliest right in the fourth century. Yeah,
[1:07:54] Speaker 6: that are completed, correct, those are.
[1:07:55] Speaker 1: The earliest completed ones. But we have gospel manship that
[1:07:59] Speaker 1: gospel manuscripts from before that that retain either the ending
[1:08:03] Speaker 1: or the beginning of the gospels.
[1:08:06] Speaker 6: So give me a fragment that you're referring to.
[1:08:10] Speaker 1: That doesn't have the name.
[1:08:12] Speaker 6: Go ahead, I mean no, because it depends on what
[1:08:16] Speaker 6: part of the fragment you're referring to, right.
[1:08:19] Speaker 1: Because everything that has the beginning or the end.
[1:08:23] Speaker 6: Huh.
[1:08:25] Speaker 1: Any manuscript that has the beginning or the end is
[1:08:30] Speaker 1: where the name of Matthew would appear.
[1:08:33] Speaker 6: Well, it doesn't help to be if it's a fragment
[1:08:35] Speaker 6: because you can't see the entire page, or you like
[1:08:37] Speaker 6: two words on it, touch it.
[1:08:38] Speaker 1: I'm talking about any manuscript that contains the beginning and
[1:08:43] Speaker 1: the end.
[1:08:45] Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm talking about about it.
[1:08:47] Speaker 1: I'm not talking about a fragment. You need to listen.
[1:08:50] Speaker 6: They are all fragments in the first century. That's why
[1:08:52] Speaker 6: it's completed in the fourth century.
[1:08:54] Speaker 3: What do you mean.
[1:08:54] Speaker 6: I'm talking to you.
[1:08:55] Speaker 1: About manuscripts that do contain the parts that are relevant.
[1:09:02] Speaker 1: Any that contains and the beginning or the name would
[1:09:08] Speaker 1: appear is where we could look to see if in
[1:09:12] Speaker 1: fact there was an actual name in the Okay, So
[1:09:19] Speaker 1: you're not actually going to engage in the dialogue.
[1:09:21] Speaker 6: I did answer a question. If you don't like my answer,
[1:09:23] Speaker 6: that's your problem.
[1:09:24] Speaker 1: I'm not asking about Vaticanus or Alexandryness or any of those.
[1:09:29] Speaker 6: You are when you're asking, I know that they exist.
[1:09:35] Speaker 6: You are indirectly. I'm not hello, hello you, I'm talking.
[1:09:46] Speaker 1: Are you Are you going to answer my question or no?
[1:09:48] Speaker 6: I'm answering a question.
[1:09:50] Speaker 1: So my question was, are you aware that there are
[1:09:52] Speaker 1: manuscripts that contained the beginning and the end of the Gospels?
[1:09:57] Speaker 6: Yes, in the fourth century completed manuscript.
[1:10:00] Speaker 1: There are earlier Yes.
[1:10:01] Speaker 6: Wait, I didn't completed, they completed.
[1:10:03] Speaker 1: There are earlier manuscripts they have. I didn't say they
[1:10:07] Speaker 1: were completed. That's not what I'm saying. Listen carefully. I'm
[1:10:11] Speaker 1: asking there are manuscripts that show the beginning and the
[1:10:16] Speaker 1: ending of the Gospels, where the names would be. Whether
[1:10:21] Speaker 1: or not they're one hundred percent complete is irrelevant.
[1:10:24] Speaker 6: It is relevant because the name.
[1:10:26] Speaker 1: Do you think they would put the name of the
[1:10:28] Speaker 1: author in the middle of it?
[1:10:30] Speaker 6: That's not what I'm saying.
[1:10:31] Speaker 1: Do you think they would put the name of it? Okay?
[1:10:33] Speaker 6: Well, okay, So if we're going with the first page,
[1:10:35] Speaker 6: hold on with this.
[1:10:36] Speaker 1: It's really easy. If you're writing a gospel, would you
[1:10:39] Speaker 1: put your would you put your would you put your
[1:10:41] Speaker 1: name in the middle of it? Or would you put
[1:10:43] Speaker 1: it at the beginning or the end.
[1:10:45] Speaker 6: I never argue that they put in the middle of it.
[1:10:46] Speaker 1: Okay, where would they put their name.
[1:10:49] Speaker 6: Where everyone is at the middle of the first page.
[1:10:52] Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, So if we have a fragment of the
[1:10:55] Speaker 1: gospel that contains the first page.
[1:10:58] Speaker 6: We don't need The part of the progment is if
[1:11:01] Speaker 6: we have the.
[1:11:01] Speaker 1: Gospel that retains the first page, we don't need the
[1:11:07] Speaker 1: entire gospel to notice if in fact it was anonymous.
[1:11:11] Speaker 1: Do you understand what I'm saying.
[1:11:14] Speaker 6: I've always understood. You know who's confusing yourself?
[1:11:18] Speaker 1: Okay, So we don't need an entire complete manuscript of Matthew,
[1:11:21] Speaker 1: John or Louke to know if it is without a name.
[1:11:25] Speaker 6: Do we never said you did? I said everything? Did
[1:11:29] Speaker 6: you hear my argument from the beginning?
[1:11:31] Speaker 1: I know your argument. Your argument is about. Your argument
[1:11:35] Speaker 1: is about Your argument is about the completed manuscripts. The
[1:11:39] Speaker 1: completed manuscripts that we have from the fourth and the
[1:11:41] Speaker 1: fifth century do.
[1:11:43] Speaker 6: Contain the name.
[1:11:44] Speaker 1: I'm not asking. I am not fucking asking about completed manuscripts. God,
[1:11:51] Speaker 1: I need you to actually listen to what we're talking about.
[1:11:55] Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the completed manuscripts. We have hundreds
[1:11:58] Speaker 1: of manuscripts that aren't completed that do retain the beginning
[1:12:03] Speaker 1: and the ending of the gospels.
[1:12:05] Speaker 6: Are you ok based on that right? How do you
[1:12:08] Speaker 6: know the part of the fragments of manuscripts are regarding
[1:12:12] Speaker 6: towards the.
[1:12:12] Speaker 1: Names, because we know the first page.
[1:12:18] Speaker 6: Give me the number of the All you.
[1:12:20] Speaker 1: Need is the first page of the manuscript.
[1:12:23] Speaker 6: Give Okay, So let me grant your argument. Give me
[1:12:25] Speaker 6: a number of the fragment you're talking about.
[1:12:28] Speaker 1: I think seventy five and sixty six both lack any names.
[1:12:33] Speaker 6: If it's a fragment, that is just one. So where's
[1:12:40] Speaker 6: the confusion?
[1:12:41] Speaker 3: Though?
[1:12:41] Speaker 1: In the Church history I already told you. In the
[1:12:45] Speaker 1: Church history, they talk about gospel that is related to
[1:12:50] Speaker 1: Matthew in Hebrew, which we don't have.
[1:12:52] Speaker 6: No, that's the theory. There is no manuscript that is
[1:12:55] Speaker 6: Hebrew I know.
[1:12:56] Speaker 1: And the early Church fathers said that the earliest manuscripts
[1:12:58] Speaker 1: of Matthew were in fact act in Hebrew. And it
[1:13:00] Speaker 1: doesn't exist.
[1:13:02] Speaker 6: Okay, wait, if that's a theory, I'm the ones that
[1:13:05] Speaker 6: were written in Greek. It doesn't matter, and it doesn't
[1:13:08] Speaker 6: show that Matthew is anonymous, does it?
[1:13:12] Speaker 1: What I'm saying, is what the early Church doesn't say
[1:13:14] Speaker 1: about Matthew don't add up.
[1:13:18] Speaker 6: Prove it doesn't add up if we have the manuscript
[1:13:20] Speaker 6: that says it adapt.
[1:13:20] Speaker 1: Because we don't have the manuscript in Hebrew. And the
[1:13:23] Speaker 1: early Church was confused as to whether or not there
[1:13:25] Speaker 1: was a Hebrew Matthew man.
[1:13:27] Speaker 6: There was a theory heurized by who, confusion by who
[1:13:33] Speaker 6: the church fathers, Hello.
[1:13:34] Speaker 1: Oh there you go. Yeah, there was a theory of
[1:13:36] Speaker 1: the church Matthew wasn't Hebrew. And it turns out that
[1:13:40] Speaker 1: there's no Matthew in Hebrew. And it also says that gospel.
[1:13:46] Speaker 6: Gospel hold On, hold On, it's a theory that the
[1:13:49] Speaker 6: church fathers made that also be Since yeah, so since
[1:13:53] Speaker 6: you know that, how does that prove that Matthew's anonymous?
[1:13:56] Speaker 1: Because the early manuscripts don't retain the name Matthew. Don't
[1:14:00] Speaker 1: get the name Matthew until.
[1:14:01] Speaker 6: Then says it doesn't. Yes, it does.
[1:14:08] Speaker 1: I disagree.
[1:14:10] Speaker 6: Well, I disagree with you, because every completed ministry we
[1:14:13] Speaker 6: have has the name and every Fred.
[1:14:15] Speaker 1: Funny how you keep saying completed manuscript. I've never once
[1:14:17] Speaker 1: said anything about a completed manuscript.
[1:14:20] Speaker 6: But I'm just I'm clarifying, so you don't confuse yourself.
[1:14:22] Speaker 1: I'm not confused. I'm not talking about I'm not talking
[1:14:27] Speaker 1: about completed manuscript.
[1:14:28] Speaker 6: That's that's the point.
[1:14:30] Speaker 1: Confused atheists are not confused.
[1:14:31] Speaker 6: You have zerofication standard, you have.
[1:14:35] Speaker 1: Zero justification for your sky fairy, which is why, which
[1:14:39] Speaker 1: is why you can't actually engage in a dialogue. So
[1:14:43] Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, but we're still
[1:14:44] Speaker 1: talking on the evidence for the Resurrection engaging, and the
[1:14:48] Speaker 1: farthest we've got so far is that Matthew was an
[1:14:51] Speaker 1: I and I disagree. I don't think Matthew was an eyewitness.
[1:14:55] Speaker 1: And even if Matthew wrote matth even if Matthew don't
[1:15:00] Speaker 1: wrote Matthew, I don't agree that his account is true.
[1:15:04] Speaker 1: So you've got a lot of ignorant So you've got
[1:15:08] Speaker 1: a large burden to lift here, because Matthew, out of
[1:15:10] Speaker 1: all the burdens, Matthew, out of all the New Testament writers,
[1:15:15] Speaker 1: tells the most lies. So we've got a guy named
[1:15:18] Speaker 1: Matthew that repeatedly is lying.
[1:15:21] Speaker 6: I have no reason before we're going to that. Do
[1:15:23] Speaker 6: you can't see that it's a it's not a what
[1:15:25] Speaker 6: do you call it anonymous.
[1:15:26] Speaker 1: No, it's anonymous.
[1:15:28] Speaker 3: Prove it.
[1:15:29] Speaker 6: You still haven't proved that. I'm not going to jump
[1:15:30] Speaker 6: to another point. Can prove your points?
[1:15:32] Speaker 1: Can you prove that he wrote it?
[1:15:34] Speaker 6: Yeah, I just did. He didn't, Yes, I did. You
[1:15:37] Speaker 6: said it didn't. Doesn't prove me wrong.
[1:15:38] Speaker 1: No, he didn't. You said the early Church accredited to me.
[1:15:43] Speaker 1: That's not proved. That's proof of her tradition.
[1:15:49] Speaker 6: Yeah, and the tradition if it was anonymous, would be
[1:15:51] Speaker 6: confused on who wrote it.
[1:15:54] Speaker 1: No, there was confusion on who wrote it.
[1:15:56] Speaker 6: Where do we find? So where do we find in
[1:15:57] Speaker 6: the church history that it was quote unquote you know,
[1:16:01] Speaker 6: they were confused like, oh, maybe uh was it the
[1:16:04] Speaker 6: writer kiss Matthew or no, no.
[1:16:07] Speaker 2: It was Matthew.
[1:16:08] Speaker 6: Who wrot Matthew. We don't find this, We say, Matthew, Matthew, Matthew, Matthew.
[1:16:11] Speaker 1: Right, yeah, but we don't know what Matthew was. That's
[1:16:14] Speaker 1: what I'm saying. What do you mean was the early
[1:16:16] Speaker 1: church brothers don't know when they refer to Matthew. They
[1:16:19] Speaker 1: don't is they don't know, They don't not until until many,
[1:16:25] Speaker 1: many generations later.
[1:16:27] Speaker 6: No, we see it from the train from the beginning
[1:16:29] Speaker 6: from Polly car all the way to know we know
[1:16:31] Speaker 6: who exactly wrote? Yes, we do. Bro, Listen you say no,
[1:16:36] Speaker 6: we don't. Doesn't just prove me. You have to give evidence.
[1:16:39] Speaker 1: What what is the evidence? You haven't brought any evidence.
[1:16:41] Speaker 6: I just gave you the evidence you.
[1:16:43] Speaker 2: I just told you.
[1:16:44] Speaker 6: The Church brothers and church.
[1:16:45] Speaker 1: Fathers don't know what was in Matthews. They don't even
[1:16:49] Speaker 1: agree on what language Matthew was actually written in.
[1:16:52] Speaker 6: That's bro, we're going in circles. That's I know you're
[1:16:55] Speaker 6: going at the circles.
[1:16:56] Speaker 1: I know, yeah, because you're going in circles. You like
[1:16:59] Speaker 1: what you like some of the early church fathers, but
[1:17:01] Speaker 1: you don't like all of the early church fathers, which
[1:17:03] Speaker 1: is why you're stuck on this.
[1:17:05] Speaker 6: What do you mean I don't like some of the
[1:17:06] Speaker 6: early church fathers. Doesn't matter if I don't like their
[1:17:08] Speaker 6: theological positions or not. It's based on what they said.
[1:17:11] Speaker 1: I know you like the ones that agree with you,
[1:17:15] Speaker 1: don't like the ones that disagree with your position.
[1:17:17] Speaker 6: How is that relevant to Matthew?
[1:17:19] Speaker 1: It's relevant because you're saying the evidence are these church
[1:17:22] Speaker 1: fathers that agree with me? But I'm going to ignore
[1:17:24] Speaker 1: the church fathers that disagree with.
[1:17:26] Speaker 6: Me, Well, I'm not disregarding their interpretations. I'm going to say.
[1:17:31] Speaker 1: The same thing I would have say. Cool, I agree
[1:17:33] Speaker 1: with the church fathers that agree with me, and I
[1:17:35] Speaker 1: disagree with the ones that comparison it is, yeah, all right,
[1:17:42] Speaker 1: what do you say? It is an apples to apples comparison.
[1:17:44] Speaker 6: You're saying, so, I'm glad you know, I'm glad you
[1:17:46] Speaker 6: know it's an upland oranges comparison.
[1:17:48] Speaker 1: No, I said apples to apples. Listen to the words
[1:17:50] Speaker 1: about So you're saying you don't like what some of
[1:17:53] Speaker 1: the church fathers say. You do like what other church
[1:17:56] Speaker 1: fathers say, and therefore you're going to reject what some
[1:17:58] Speaker 1: of the church fathers say because of the other church fathers.
[1:18:02] Speaker 1: I'm saying that that's not a good argument because I
[1:18:05] Speaker 1: could use the same argument against you.
[1:18:08] Speaker 6: That's not relevant in terms of who route it.
[1:18:10] Speaker 2: It is. No, it's not.
[1:18:12] Speaker 6: It is because again I could read like the writings
[1:18:14] Speaker 6: of like polycoch and it says something that disagrees with
[1:18:17] Speaker 6: like what my confession on my or what I read
[1:18:20] Speaker 6: from the word of the Lord. That doesn't change that
[1:18:23] Speaker 6: what he said is what he said, you're saying he's
[1:18:26] Speaker 6: he didn't even say that, or it's not even there.
[1:18:27] Speaker 1: I didn't say that's completely. I didn't say that at all.
[1:18:29] Speaker 1: You're really bad at listening. I'm saying that, like you
[1:18:33] Speaker 1: fathers reference Matthew, we don't know what Matthew was.
[1:18:39] Speaker 6: Yes, we do. What do you mean what we find
[1:18:42] Speaker 6: not define was?
[1:18:45] Speaker 1: What do you mean by contents? We don't know the content.
[1:18:48] Speaker 7: We do.
[1:18:48] Speaker 6: We read them. We read them. That's why they them.
[1:18:50] Speaker 6: Do they call Matthew? Do they call Matthew the church
[1:18:54] Speaker 6: for the content?
[1:18:57] Speaker 1: Okay, okay, so the content no wrong? Calling something wrong?
[1:19:03] Speaker 1: Calling something Matthew doesn't mean you know what was in Matthew?
[1:19:08] Speaker 1: What just call referring to I'm so tired of talking
[1:19:15] Speaker 1: over you. Referring to something as Matthew doesn't mean that
[1:19:20] Speaker 1: the text that is available to you is the same
[1:19:23] Speaker 1: Matthew that they were speaking about, in the same way
[1:19:27] Speaker 1: that when early Church fathers refer to the Hebrew Matthew
[1:19:31] Speaker 1: is clearly a different tradition. So just because the word
[1:19:36] Speaker 1: Matthew shows up in the Early Church doesn't mean that
[1:19:40] Speaker 1: they're referring to the same Matthew. We don't know what
[1:19:44] Speaker 1: text they're referring to.
[1:19:46] Speaker 6: Yes, we do know, because they quoted, and it's word
[1:19:49] Speaker 6: for with the Matthew we have in the manuscripts. Do
[1:19:51] Speaker 6: they quote Matthew? Yes or no?
[1:19:53] Speaker 1: Did they quote all of Matthew?
[1:19:56] Speaker 6: They don't have to. Do they quote parts of Matthew.
[1:19:57] Speaker 1: I'm sure they did, but just quote and.
[1:20:00] Speaker 6: Guess what we can just based on Actually all the Church.
[1:20:03] Speaker 1: Just quoting part of Matthew doesn't mean that they're retaining
[1:20:07] Speaker 1: the entire tradition of Matthew, which is what we're talking about.
[1:20:11] Speaker 1: So if there was in fact a Hebrew Matthew, it's
[1:20:13] Speaker 1: certainly possible that there were parts of Hebrew Matthew that
[1:20:17] Speaker 1: agreed with Greek Matthew. But that doesn't mean that the
[1:20:21] Speaker 1: text of Matthew as we have today is the text
[1:20:24] Speaker 1: of Matthew. And the earliest manuscripts we have of Matthew
[1:20:28] Speaker 1: that retain the beginning and the end is p. One
[1:20:33] Speaker 1: and p.
[1:20:34] Speaker 5: Four.
[1:20:34] Speaker 1: They date to the second in the third century, and
[1:20:37] Speaker 1: they do not include the name Matthew.
[1:20:39] Speaker 6: Yeah, because it's a fragment that is not the portion
[1:20:42] Speaker 6: where Matthew is.
[1:20:43] Speaker 4: That's why.
[1:20:43] Speaker 6: And second of all, again with the Church fathers. That's
[1:20:47] Speaker 6: just literally.
[1:20:48] Speaker 1: Disregarded what I said.
[1:20:49] Speaker 6: I said, they quote exactly what we have from the
[1:20:53] Speaker 6: Greek manuscripts of Matthew.
[1:20:56] Speaker 1: I'm aware they Okay, since you know that, so there
[1:20:59] Speaker 1: are quotation Wait, hold on, hold on, you were preaching
[1:21:02] Speaker 1: for that time. So we'll try this again, because I
[1:21:04] Speaker 1: know you're not listening to me. I don't know why
[1:21:06] Speaker 1: I have to repeat myself so many times. You couldn't
[1:21:09] Speaker 1: quote from a text. And it's possible that the text
[1:21:13] Speaker 1: that you're quoting from exists. But what that doesn't mean
[1:21:18] Speaker 1: is that the text we have available to us today
[1:21:21] Speaker 1: in its entirety, is the same as the text that
[1:21:25] Speaker 1: was being quoted from. For the same reason, why we
[1:21:28] Speaker 1: know that the earliest copies of Mark probably had different variants,
[1:21:33] Speaker 1: because Mark chapter sixteen had a chapter added to it,
[1:21:37] Speaker 1: or almost a whole chapter added to the end of it.
[1:21:40] Speaker 1: Other Gospels are referred to in the early Churches the
[1:21:43] Speaker 1: saying Gospels, when they weren't actually saying gospels.
[1:21:46] Speaker 6: I love how you wrote up the part of Mark
[1:21:48] Speaker 6: sixteen because we know that Mark sisteen was part because
[1:21:50] Speaker 6: we have the early church fathers quoting Mark sixteen. So
[1:21:53] Speaker 6: again back to the Church fathers.
[1:21:55] Speaker 1: We mean, but they weren't actually in the manuscripts. Pardon,
[1:21:59] Speaker 1: but they aren't actually in the manuscripts.
[1:22:02] Speaker 6: Well, depending on the way were talking about cortexcat because
[1:22:05] Speaker 6: you have textual variance. But we know that textual variance
[1:22:07] Speaker 6: in some manuscripts doesn't matter. If they do matter, we
[1:22:10] Speaker 6: have the overall amount of manuscripts. So how does that, again, actual.
[1:22:14] Speaker 1: Variance matter because you don't know which ones are actually original. Pardon,
[1:22:19] Speaker 1: textual variance do matter because you don't know which ones
[1:22:21] Speaker 1: are original.
[1:22:22] Speaker 6: That's the problem, varique is.
[1:22:25] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the biggest problem with all the textual variance
[1:22:28] Speaker 1: is that you don't.
[1:22:29] Speaker 6: Know what is thenscripts in the world. The best that
[1:22:32] Speaker 6: you can do with Impress. We know exactly because we
[1:22:36] Speaker 6: have twenty five thousand. Yes, we do know.
[1:22:39] Speaker 1: No, you don't know.
[1:22:39] Speaker 6: We have Again, listen, we have twenty five thousand incient
[1:22:42] Speaker 6: manuscripts that line open ninty nine percent accuracy with one another.
[1:22:44] Speaker 1: That's not true.
[1:22:45] Speaker 6: This is the most book, you said.
[1:22:47] Speaker 1: What that's not true. Yes, it is the majority of
[1:22:50] Speaker 1: your majority of your five hundred manuscripts come from after
[1:22:54] Speaker 1: the medieval period.
[1:22:56] Speaker 2: Bro.
[1:22:56] Speaker 6: Obviously, Yeah, they.
[1:22:57] Speaker 1: Don't exactly lots in he will Greek, Latin.
[1:23:02] Speaker 6: And all the other manuscripts. Yeah, they will line up
[1:23:04] Speaker 6: in twenty five thousand ancient manuscripts.
[1:23:06] Speaker 1: If they were different, like you're putting five thousand, eight hundred,
[1:23:08] Speaker 1: there's not twenty five thousand, it's twenty five thousand. No,
[1:23:11] Speaker 1: there's five thousand, eight hundred.
[1:23:13] Speaker 6: You're talking about Greek. I'm talking about the entirety.
[1:23:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm talking about the Greek New Testm manascripts.
[1:23:18] Speaker 6: I'm talking about the entirety. I'm talking about the entirety.
[1:23:20] Speaker 1: Do I care the manuscripts? Why would I care about
[1:23:23] Speaker 1: the Latin manuscripts. I don't care what you said about
[1:23:25] Speaker 1: don't agree and all, it doesn't matter.
[1:23:26] Speaker 6: It does matter because if it was different like you're proposing,
[1:23:29] Speaker 6: they would have different things they're saying in each manuscript.
[1:23:32] Speaker 6: But no, they all line open nine nine percent accuracy.
[1:23:34] Speaker 1: No they don't. Yes, yes they do, prove them or
[1:23:36] Speaker 1: not they're they're not. Listen, have you actually been and
[1:23:42] Speaker 1: have you actually gone through and talent the accuracy of
[1:23:44] Speaker 1: all the Greek manuscripts. I don't have to oh, so
[1:23:48] Speaker 1: so I don't have to go. So I don't have
[1:23:50] Speaker 1: to go through the manuscripts and show you well, you can't.
[1:23:53] Speaker 6: But you're just gonna find me. You're just going to
[1:23:55] Speaker 6: prove me right.
[1:23:55] Speaker 2: If you do that.
[1:23:56] Speaker 1: I'm absolutely not going to be doing that.
[1:23:58] Speaker 6: So of course you won't because this and I'm lazy.
[1:24:01] Speaker 1: I'm not lazy. I went to school. I actually studied this.
[1:24:04] Speaker 1: So the fact of the matter is there's no reason
[1:24:08] Speaker 1: to trust what Matthew says.
[1:24:09] Speaker 6: I don't first wall the reason because we have we
[1:24:12] Speaker 6: have again, So.
[1:24:13] Speaker 1: I don't believe that Matthew wrote Matthew, which is the
[1:24:15] Speaker 1: first problem. The second problem is Matthew says things that
[1:24:19] Speaker 1: are untrue, which is the biggest problem. When Matthew or
[1:24:23] Speaker 1: whoever wrote Matthew says things that are untrue, I have
[1:24:27] Speaker 1: no reason to trust anything in the Gospel.
[1:24:31] Speaker 6: Like I said before, before we move on to the
[1:24:33] Speaker 6: next point, you have to concede about your point about that.
[1:24:36] Speaker 1: I won't concede because you're wrong. Okay, so you can't
[1:24:41] Speaker 1: actually defend the contents.
[1:24:42] Speaker 6: I can, but you have to debunk me first in
[1:24:44] Speaker 6: one points.
[1:24:45] Speaker 1: We go from one point, your claim is not supported
[1:24:48] Speaker 1: by evidence. Claims claims without evidence. You can be dismissed
[1:24:53] Speaker 1: without evidence so your claim, your claim is that Matthew
[1:24:57] Speaker 1: wrote Matthew, and the only evidence you have are some
[1:25:01] Speaker 1: early church fathers said that Matthew gospel. So my my
[1:25:07] Speaker 1: reuttal to that is that that is not enough evidence
[1:25:10] Speaker 1: for me, just because just because tradition granted matthean auship
[1:25:16] Speaker 1: authorship to Matthew is not enough for me because the
[1:25:19] Speaker 1: internal contents of Matthew are not consistent. My claim is
[1:25:25] Speaker 1: that the internal thing the Book of Matthew are not
[1:25:29] Speaker 1: consistent with Matthew writing Matthew.
[1:25:37] Speaker 6: Still having proved that he's anonymous.
[1:25:40] Speaker 1: Because the earlier manuscripts we have don't contain the name Matthew.
[1:25:45] Speaker 6: Yes, they do, every single one until the fourth century,
[1:25:49] Speaker 6: which we can find a completed manuscript. What should the
[1:25:52] Speaker 6: name Matthew? Every single manuscript.
[1:25:54] Speaker 2: Does, but not.
[1:25:56] Speaker 6: Not even close unless you're looking at fragments, yeh, because
[1:25:59] Speaker 6: they don't going to the whole page in Matthew is
[1:26:01] Speaker 6: obviously and we see the church fathers under matt See listen,
[1:26:05] Speaker 6: you still haven't proven me wrong, dog, you.
[1:26:08] Speaker 1: Haven't open yourself, right. So that's the way it claims work, right,
[1:26:11] Speaker 1: So when you make a claim, claims to make it
[1:26:14] Speaker 1: when you make a claim, the evidence like the burden
[1:26:17] Speaker 1: of the evidence is on the person making.
[1:26:20] Speaker 6: Just rejected it. You say, no, it doesn't you're just
[1:26:22] Speaker 6: rejecting my evidence.
[1:26:23] Speaker 1: I didn't say no. I'm saying that the arguments ago.
[1:26:27] Speaker 1: You said sorry, you were listening to my actual argument.
[1:26:29] Speaker 1: My argument is very easy. I was listening that the
[1:26:31] Speaker 1: early manuscripts of Matthew don't retain the name Matthew. The
[1:26:35] Speaker 1: internal content of the Book of Matthew don't leave. Don't
[1:26:39] Speaker 1: leave me to believe that Matthew wrote Matthew. And I
[1:26:43] Speaker 1: think the biggest evidence of that is that Matthew copied
[1:26:46] Speaker 1: his own conversion story from Mark, which is inconsistent. Somebody
[1:26:50] Speaker 1: writing a gospel and they get to the part of
[1:26:53] Speaker 1: the gospel that is about themselves, and not only do
[1:26:56] Speaker 1: they copy it from somebody else, but they leave it
[1:26:58] Speaker 1: in the third person. Ru is a consistent You.
[1:27:04] Speaker 6: Can claim that, you can claim that, dog, but you
[1:27:05] Speaker 6: have to prove you. You have to prove your claims.
[1:27:07] Speaker 1: You already agreed that Mark wrote first.
[1:27:12] Speaker 6: Yeah, of course Mark claim.
[1:27:14] Speaker 1: And math and Matthew copied from Mark, didn't they.
[1:27:19] Speaker 6: No, you have to prove that.
[1:27:20] Speaker 1: Oh, so they caught so Matthew, Mark and Luke have
[1:27:24] Speaker 1: word for word agreement on a number of stories, but
[1:27:28] Speaker 1: there was no copying.
[1:27:29] Speaker 6: Yeah, because it's the same.
[1:27:31] Speaker 1: That was the Holy spirit waitya of course, do you
[1:27:35] Speaker 1: know how greed?
[1:27:36] Speaker 6: We are running from the argument, don't you know how
[1:27:37] Speaker 6: greed copied?
[1:27:39] Speaker 1: Do you know how Greek works?
[1:27:40] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[1:27:41] Speaker 5: Do you?
[1:27:41] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[1:27:43] Speaker 6: So does it work?
[1:27:43] Speaker 1: Do you know how Greek word order works?
[1:27:46] Speaker 6: Does it?
[1:27:46] Speaker 2: Do you?
[1:27:47] Speaker 1: Yes?
[1:27:48] Speaker 6: So explain how I went to school. I'm asking you,
[1:27:51] Speaker 6: do you appealed to authority? Follocy?
[1:27:53] Speaker 1: I mean appealed to authority? I actually have an education actually.
[1:27:58] Speaker 6: When I was in school.
[1:27:59] Speaker 1: So I'm asking a very easy question. Do you know
[1:28:03] Speaker 1: how word order works in the Greek language?
[1:28:07] Speaker 2: Dog?
[1:28:08] Speaker 1: It's easy, yes or no question, either do or you don't?
[1:28:11] Speaker 1: Do you do you know how word order works in.
[1:28:17] Speaker 7: You do?
[1:28:17] Speaker 1: Because this is important to the conversation. And if you
[1:28:20] Speaker 1: don't know, alls you have to say is no listen.
[1:28:23] Speaker 1: If you don't know, it's fine, It's it's not got you. Yes,
[1:28:27] Speaker 1: I do, Yes, I know how how it works. I'm
[1:28:32] Speaker 1: asking I'm asking.
[1:28:33] Speaker 2: You do you know? Me?
[1:28:36] Speaker 6: Knowing or not knowing is irrelevant?
[1:28:37] Speaker 1: If you Okay, So you don't know, you just don't
[1:28:39] Speaker 1: want to say it fantastic. So the word order Greek
[1:28:43] Speaker 1: is basically irrelevant except for usually the first word of
[1:28:46] Speaker 1: the sentence. You can order the words in Greek almost
[1:28:49] Speaker 1: any way you wanted to. All you need to do
[1:28:52] Speaker 1: is make sure that your case endings, your gender, and
[1:28:54] Speaker 1: your number agree so that you can actually get the
[1:28:57] Speaker 1: right verbs and act and sub and objects tied to
[1:29:02] Speaker 1: each other. So the reason why this is relevant is
[1:29:05] Speaker 1: because if two people or even three people, however many people,
[1:29:10] Speaker 1: if they're all telling the same story in Greek, then
[1:29:12] Speaker 1: the word order in the narrative, even if they're telling
[1:29:15] Speaker 1: the same story, the word order is going to be
[1:29:17] Speaker 1: different from person to person because word order is a
[1:29:20] Speaker 1: matter of personal preference, which is why we can.
[1:29:23] Speaker 2: Point out.
[1:29:26] Speaker 1: Gospel, which is why we can point out Pauline writings.
[1:29:29] Speaker 1: So Paul has a very specific word that he likes
[1:29:33] Speaker 1: to use in Greek, so scholars who study the Greek
[1:29:36] Speaker 1: of Paul can detect what is like typically Pauline Greek.
[1:29:42] Speaker 1: We have the same thing with the Gospels. Are types
[1:29:45] Speaker 1: of words and word orders that the gospel authors like
[1:29:49] Speaker 1: to use if they're all telling the same story. But
[1:29:52] Speaker 1: they're not copying from each other. Then what we would
[1:29:54] Speaker 1: expect is that in the stories that are copied, the
[1:29:57] Speaker 1: stories that are the same, they tell the same story,
[1:29:59] Speaker 1: but the word ordering in the sentence would all be different.
[1:30:02] Speaker 1: But what we find is a lot of copy of
[1:30:05] Speaker 1: stories in the Gospels that match in the Greek word
[1:30:10] Speaker 1: for word. And this is why, this is why critical
[1:30:14] Speaker 1: scholars understand somebody that somebody is copying, that somebody is
[1:30:22] Speaker 1: copying from somebody else, because if you're copying a story
[1:30:26] Speaker 1: in Greek, there's no reason to copy the word orders.
[1:30:31] Speaker 1: If you're copying a story in Greek, that's the only
[1:30:34] Speaker 1: reason to retain the word order, because word order in
[1:30:38] Speaker 1: the sentence is personal preference.
[1:30:43] Speaker 6: You didn't prove anything, you just said, I'm.
[1:30:45] Speaker 1: Explaining you why scholars agree that Matthew and Luke. I'm sorry.
[1:30:51] Speaker 1: Do you have a degree in this field?
[1:30:53] Speaker 6: That's do you have?
[1:30:57] Speaker 1: Okay?
[1:30:58] Speaker 2: Do you.
[1:31:00] Speaker 6: Do you disagree with authority? Do you disagree with the
[1:31:04] Speaker 6: scholars comments search?
[1:31:07] Speaker 1: Do you disagree with the scholarly consensus that Matthew and
[1:31:12] Speaker 1: Luke quoted from Mark.
[1:31:16] Speaker 5: That?
[1:31:17] Speaker 1: Do you disagree with the scholarly consensus that Matthew and
[1:31:21] Speaker 1: Luke quoted from Mark.
[1:31:23] Speaker 6: Yes, I have every reason too.
[1:31:24] Speaker 1: If it's consensus, okay, what is your so what's your
[1:31:27] Speaker 1: reason for disagreeing with that?
[1:31:30] Speaker 6: Because I don't granted that they copied.
[1:31:33] Speaker 4: What evidence?
[1:31:35] Speaker 1: What evidence was?
[1:31:37] Speaker 6: The evidence approves it.
[1:31:38] Speaker 1: The fact that there's entire books written on it. You
[1:31:44] Speaker 1: don't know that it's not an appeal to authority fallacy.
[1:31:47] Speaker 2: That yes it is.
[1:31:48] Speaker 6: You know what it is, authority fallacy.
[1:31:51] Speaker 1: The subject has been widely studied. You can read a
[1:31:54] Speaker 1: book on it. You just go to the synoptic problem
[1:31:57] Speaker 1: of Amazon and see what books have been written by
[1:32:00] Speaker 1: dollars on it.
[1:32:01] Speaker 2: This is like a.
[1:32:01] Speaker 1: Universally accepted positions. It's like a universally accepted position. And
[1:32:09] Speaker 1: the fact that you don't read Greek and nobody nobody
[1:32:12] Speaker 1: else here does read Greek means that means that what
[1:32:16] Speaker 1: we're not going to do is put a bunch of
[1:32:18] Speaker 1: Greek parallel texts on the screen and demonstrate that there
[1:32:22] Speaker 1: going on. But as it turns out, there are lots
[1:32:26] Speaker 1: of scholars already on TikTok, already on YouTube do make
[1:32:31] Speaker 1: this their area of study, and you're more than welcome
[1:32:35] Speaker 1: to go talk to them if you disagree with their position. Now,
[1:32:41] Speaker 1: So my position, as I've been trying to tell you,
[1:32:45] Speaker 1: is that the contents of Matthew are not trustworthy.
[1:32:49] Speaker 6: That's your claim that.
[1:32:51] Speaker 1: I'm just to it. I'm getting to it. Would you
[1:32:54] Speaker 1: like me to prove it?
[1:32:55] Speaker 6: Now? Wait so you can see I've literally been.
[1:32:59] Speaker 1: Trying to do it, and I am not conceding.
[1:33:01] Speaker 6: No, you're not conceding, then we have nothing to talk about.
[1:33:05] Speaker 1: We do. Yeah, I'm sorry. If you're terrified of actually
[1:33:08] Speaker 1: reading the book.
[1:33:09] Speaker 6: I'm not terrified. Okay, I'm just saying, no, you have
[1:33:13] Speaker 6: to concede.
[1:33:16] Speaker 1: I'm not conceding anything. I agree with what the scholars.
[1:33:20] Speaker 1: I agree with what the scholars find. You're not a scholar,
[1:33:23] Speaker 1: you have no expertise in this field of study. You've
[1:33:26] Speaker 1: brought no evidence to support your claims. So I dismiss
[1:33:30] Speaker 1: your claims in favor of the claims made by the
[1:33:33] Speaker 1: guys with the actual PhD. So that is my position
[1:33:37] Speaker 1: on the authorship of Matthew. You don't have to like it,
[1:33:40] Speaker 1: but that is my position on Matthew. And I've already
[1:33:42] Speaker 1: told you that the internal consistency of the Book of
[1:33:46] Speaker 1: Matthew leads me to believe that Matthew didn't actually write it,
[1:33:49] Speaker 1: because it doesn't make sense that Matthew would tell a
[1:33:52] Speaker 1: story about himself in the third person, much less copy
[1:33:55] Speaker 1: it from the book of Mark. Now, what I would
[1:33:59] Speaker 1: like to do is actually read the contents of Matthew.
[1:34:03] Speaker 1: Would you like to read the contents of the Book
[1:34:05] Speaker 1: of Matthew with me?
[1:34:10] Speaker 6: Well, you're preaching. Let me just what you said. You
[1:34:13] Speaker 6: can say you appeal to PhDs and all these things,
[1:34:16] Speaker 6: et cetera. I can appeal to scholars who hold my
[1:34:17] Speaker 6: position too. That doesn't prove them right. It goes based
[1:34:20] Speaker 6: on the evidence.
[1:34:21] Speaker 1: I don't think you can kill many of them.
[1:34:23] Speaker 6: He's an Amazon and all these things. It's not going
[1:34:25] Speaker 6: to help your case.
[1:34:26] Speaker 2: It.
[1:34:28] Speaker 1: So you don't actually want to read the context, So
[1:34:31] Speaker 1: you don't actually want to read the contents of the book.
[1:34:32] Speaker 6: Then that's not what I said. I was addressing what
[1:34:36] Speaker 6: you're saying.
[1:34:36] Speaker 1: Let me, do you want to do you want to
[1:34:38] Speaker 1: read the Do you want to read?
[1:34:41] Speaker 2: This is not yours?
[1:34:43] Speaker 1: I'm going to rush you. Would you like to read
[1:34:45] Speaker 1: the contents of the book? Because the conversation on authorship
[1:34:49] Speaker 1: is not going anywhere. You're not getting anywhere You've not
[1:34:51] Speaker 1: convinced anyone here. You've not convinced me. You don't actually
[1:34:55] Speaker 1: have an argument, and you don't like my argument. That
[1:34:59] Speaker 1: being said, that's as far as this particular topic is
[1:35:02] Speaker 1: going to. The topic of authorship of Matthew is out
[1:35:06] Speaker 1: of legs at this point. So would you like to
[1:35:09] Speaker 1: talk about another topic or is this the only topic
[1:35:12] Speaker 1: that you're willing to talk about, Because it's what I'm
[1:35:15] Speaker 1: sensing is that you're terrified of actually reading what is
[1:35:19] Speaker 1: in math?
[1:35:20] Speaker 6: That's what you think, So then would you like to.
[1:35:24] Speaker 1: Actually read the Book of Matthew? So we'll do this again.
[1:35:29] Speaker 2: I've wrote it.
[1:35:30] Speaker 1: The conversation on the authorship of Matthew is at a stalemate.
[1:35:34] Speaker 1: You can't prove that he wrote it, and I can't
[1:35:37] Speaker 1: bring you proof that he didn't write it other than
[1:35:39] Speaker 1: appealing to the actual manuscripts and the internal evidence. I
[1:35:43] Speaker 1: would love to look at the actual internal writings of
[1:35:48] Speaker 1: the Book of Matthew and see what Matthew has to say.
[1:35:52] Speaker 1: Is that something that you would like to do? Because
[1:35:54] Speaker 1: if the answer is no, then we no longer have
[1:35:57] Speaker 1: anything to talk about.
[1:35:59] Speaker 6: You said, it's still made right, That's what happens. Yes, Okay,
[1:36:04] Speaker 6: I'll come back the next time from Matthew.
[1:36:05] Speaker 1: Then okay, so you don't want you don't want to
[1:36:07] Speaker 1: read it?
[1:36:09] Speaker 6: Not today, maybe tomorrow.
[1:36:10] Speaker 1: Okay. So you're terrified of actually reading what's in the
[1:36:12] Speaker 1: book because you know it's going to cook you.
[1:36:14] Speaker 6: Oh no, I'm not terrified.
[1:36:15] Speaker 1: You're terrified of reading it. You don't want me to
[1:36:17] Speaker 1: show you. Matthew lied.
[1:36:19] Speaker 6: You don't know me. You can't gus like me. It
[1:36:21] Speaker 6: doesn't I can definitely gas like you're a coward.
[1:36:24] Speaker 1: I love the fact it's running with his tail between
[1:36:26] Speaker 1: the legs. He's terrified of reading God's holy words. When
[1:36:31] Speaker 1: I was a Christian, there was nothing I enjoyed more
[1:36:35] Speaker 1: than reading the Bible with non believers. I want to
[1:36:37] Speaker 1: know why you're afraid of actually reading the Bible.
[1:36:41] Speaker 6: I want to know why you're afraid. You're not well.
[1:36:45] Speaker 1: I'll give you, give you one less chance. Would you
[1:36:49] Speaker 1: like to read the Bible with me?
[1:36:51] Speaker 6: And the answer?
[1:36:51] Speaker 1: If the answer is no, then you're running. You're a coward.
[1:36:55] Speaker 6: No, No, I'm not a coward. I'm not like you.
[1:36:56] Speaker 1: You're a coward.
[1:36:58] Speaker 2: No I'm not.
[1:36:58] Speaker 1: Then read the Bible with me.
[1:37:02] Speaker 2: Okay, you know what you.
[1:37:03] Speaker 6: Won, You won, all right. Let me let me destroy
[1:37:07] Speaker 6: you here. Two, let me destroy here as well.
[1:37:08] Speaker 1: You're gonna love this, all right? Have you ever read Jeremiah?
[1:37:13] Speaker 6: What about it?
[1:37:14] Speaker 1: Have you read it?
[1:37:16] Speaker 6: What about it?
[1:37:18] Speaker 1: Have you read it?
[1:37:20] Speaker 2: What about it?
[1:37:21] Speaker 1: Listen? You can be a coward all night. Wrong, I'm
[1:37:23] Speaker 1: asking you.
[1:37:25] Speaker 6: I'm just asking you.
[1:37:26] Speaker 1: Have you read the Book of Jeremiah? It's a yes? Sorry, no?
[1:37:30] Speaker 6: It doesn't matter if I have or havens? What about it?
[1:37:32] Speaker 6: What's your points get to?
[1:37:33] Speaker 1: I'm going to make you answer the question. You're never
[1:37:35] Speaker 1: going to be more stubborn than me. You're going to
[1:37:37] Speaker 1: answer the question or you're going to get infinitely muted.
[1:37:40] Speaker 1: It was a yes or no question. Have you read
[1:37:44] Speaker 1: the Book of Jeremiah? It is a yes or a no.
[1:37:48] Speaker 1: If the next word out of your mouth is not
[1:37:50] Speaker 1: a yes or no, I'll ask you another time, and
[1:37:52] Speaker 1: then another time, and then another time. Have you read
[1:37:56] Speaker 1: the Book of Jeremiah?
[1:37:57] Speaker 2: Yes or no?
[1:38:00] Speaker 6: What about it?
[1:38:01] Speaker 1: So the answer is no, I'll take that as a no. Okay, cool?
[1:38:03] Speaker 6: What about it?
[1:38:04] Speaker 4: So?
[1:38:04] Speaker 6: Are you running for my answers?
[1:38:06] Speaker 1: Yes, you didn't give an answer. The answer is no,
[1:38:08] Speaker 1: you have, which is why you're too much of a
[1:38:12] Speaker 1: coward to answer the question. So in Jeremiah thirty one fifteen,
[1:38:16] Speaker 1: it says, thus say it the Lord. A voice is
[1:38:19] Speaker 1: heard in rama, lamentation and bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping,
[1:38:23] Speaker 1: forel you'd know if you read it. Rachel is weeping
[1:38:26] Speaker 1: for her children. She tell me, is on the screen?
[1:38:32] Speaker 2: What chapter?
[1:38:33] Speaker 1: It's on the screen?
[1:38:37] Speaker 6: Fifteen?
[1:38:37] Speaker 2: Gotcha?
[1:38:39] Speaker 1: Thus say it the Lord. A voice is heard in rama, lamentation.
[1:38:43] Speaker 1: Rachel's wea for children.
[1:38:46] Speaker 6: Go back quick please? Uh okay, gotcha?
[1:38:51] Speaker 1: Six Rachel is weeping for her children. She refuses to
[1:38:55] Speaker 1: be comforted for her children because they are no more.
[1:38:57] Speaker 1: Thus say that the Lord. Keep her voice from weeping
[1:39:00] Speaker 1: and your eyes from tears. For there is a reward
[1:39:02] Speaker 1: for your work, says the Lord. They shall come back
[1:39:04] Speaker 1: from the land of the enemy. What's the context here
[1:39:06] Speaker 1: and what is this prophecy about?
[1:39:09] Speaker 6: This is what the Lord says. The voice is said
[1:39:11] Speaker 6: in Rayma. He's Rachel weeping for her children and refusing
[1:39:15] Speaker 6: to be comforted because they are no more. This is
[1:39:18] Speaker 6: what the Lord Almighty says. Restrain your voice from weeping
[1:39:20] Speaker 6: and your eyes from tears, for your work will be
[1:39:23] Speaker 6: revealed to close the Lord, they will return from my
[1:39:25] Speaker 6: land and enemy ill three the entire chapter two of
[1:39:28] Speaker 6: the context.
[1:39:29] Speaker 1: How do you not know the context of Jeremiah When
[1:39:31] Speaker 1: was he writing?
[1:39:32] Speaker 6: Because you put in the because you put it in
[1:39:35] Speaker 6: the middle.
[1:39:36] Speaker 1: When was Jeremiah writing?
[1:39:38] Speaker 6: Doesn't matter what Jeremiah do.
[1:39:41] Speaker 1: Jeremiah was writing.
[1:39:43] Speaker 6: What does that have to do with your points?
[1:39:45] Speaker 1: The context of Jeremiah is clear when you know who
[1:39:47] Speaker 1: Jeremiah was and why he was writing. Jeremiah was writing
[1:39:51] Speaker 1: to the Israelis as they were being taken away in
[1:39:54] Speaker 1: captivity by the babylon by the Babylonians. So this is
[1:39:59] Speaker 1: a prophet to see about them coming. It's a prophecy
[1:40:03] Speaker 1: about them coming back. Anything about you, it's a prophecy
[1:40:05] Speaker 1: about them coming back from Babylon, because Chapter twenty five
[1:40:10] Speaker 1: tells you they're going to come back after seventy years.
[1:40:12] Speaker 1: To me, show me, show me me the Babylonian captivity
[1:40:15] Speaker 1: foretold the word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the
[1:40:17] Speaker 1: people of Judah in the fourth year of King Jeri
[1:40:21] Speaker 1: Jehoic Kim, son of Josiah of Judah, that was the
[1:40:25] Speaker 1: first of the king Nebican Ezzer of Babylon, which the
[1:40:28] Speaker 1: prophet Jeremiah spoke to all the people of Judah and
[1:40:30] Speaker 1: all the inhabitants of Jerusalem for twenty three years from
[1:40:33] Speaker 1: the thirteenth year of King Josiah's, son of Emmin of Judah.
[1:40:37] Speaker 1: On this day, the word of the Lord has come
[1:40:38] Speaker 1: to me, and I've spoken persistently to you, but you
[1:40:40] Speaker 1: have not listened. And the whole chapter twenty five is
[1:40:43] Speaker 1: about how they're going to be taking captivity. It says,
[1:40:46] Speaker 1: I'm going to send for all the tribes of the North,
[1:40:48] Speaker 1: says the Lord, even for King nebucon Nezzer of Babylon,
[1:40:51] Speaker 1: my servant, and I will bring them against this land
[1:40:54] Speaker 1: and its inhabitants. That is the context of Jeremiah. Jeremiah's
[1:40:58] Speaker 1: writing about the Babylonian captives and how long are they
[1:41:03] Speaker 1: going to be there?
[1:41:04] Speaker 2: For?
[1:41:04] Speaker 1: Do you do you read chapter twenty five? You ever
[1:41:06] Speaker 1: read it?
[1:41:09] Speaker 6: Hold on, where are you? What chapter are you in?
[1:41:12] Speaker 6: Twenty five verse what.
[1:41:13] Speaker 1: I'm in twenty five.
[1:41:16] Speaker 2: Verse eight?
[1:41:17] Speaker 6: Therefore, the Lord of Mighty says, this is because you
[1:41:18] Speaker 6: have no listen to my words. I will summon all
[1:41:20] Speaker 6: peoples of the North and the coveniers and King of
[1:41:23] Speaker 6: Babylon to close the Lord, and I will bring them
[1:41:25] Speaker 6: against the line and its inhabitants, and against all surrounding nations.
[1:41:29] Speaker 1: Case of prophecy, So cape riding go all through twelve.
[1:41:34] Speaker 6: Uh destroy and make them object horror, scorn and lasting ruin.
[1:41:39] Speaker 6: I banished from them the sounds of joy and gladness,
[1:41:42] Speaker 6: the voice of the bride and the bridegroom, the sound
[1:41:44] Speaker 6: of milestones, and the light of the lamp. The whole
[1:41:47] Speaker 6: country will become desolate wasteland, and these nations will serve
[1:41:50] Speaker 6: the King Babylon seventy years.
[1:41:53] Speaker 1: That's right, so to be taking capital seven years.
[1:41:56] Speaker 6: So when the seventy years of field, I will punish
[1:42:02] Speaker 6: the King Babylon and his nations and the land of
[1:42:04] Speaker 6: Babbelahlians for their guilt to close the Lord, and it
[1:42:07] Speaker 6: will make it destly forever. What about it?
[1:42:10] Speaker 1: Okay? So the prophecy context of Jeremiah is the Babylonian.
[1:42:14] Speaker 6: Captivity, right, it's a prophecy about it?
[1:42:19] Speaker 1: Right? And then what's going to happen after seventy years.
[1:42:23] Speaker 6: Based on the prophecy it says, But then seventy years
[1:42:28] Speaker 6: of fulfilled, I'll punished the kingdom. When the seventeen years
[1:42:31] Speaker 6: are fulfilled, I will punish the king of Babylon and
[1:42:33] Speaker 6: his nation and the land of Babylonians and their guilt
[1:42:36] Speaker 6: to close the lord uh huh yep.
[1:42:38] Speaker 1: And then what happens is the Israelites.
[1:42:40] Speaker 6: After that, I will bring on the land and things
[1:42:44] Speaker 6: I've spoken against it, and I've written in the book
[1:42:46] Speaker 6: and prophesied Germanicanstu nations. They themselves will be in sleep
[1:42:51] Speaker 6: by many nations and kings. Where does it talk about
[1:42:55] Speaker 6: the Israelites?
[1:42:56] Speaker 5: It doesn't.
[1:42:56] Speaker 1: It doesn't finish the restoration in chapter twenty five. You
[1:42:59] Speaker 1: have to keep reading after twenty.
[1:43:00] Speaker 6: By do you ask me a question? There's no based
[1:43:02] Speaker 6: on the chapter.
[1:43:03] Speaker 1: Because the chapter explains what's happening in chapter thirty one.
[1:43:06] Speaker 1: In chapter twenty five, it talks about how are going
[1:43:09] Speaker 1: to be taken captive in Babylon for seventy years, and
[1:43:13] Speaker 1: then after the captivity, what happens the captives when they're freed?
[1:43:20] Speaker 6: Where does it talk about the Israelites on Whate's going
[1:43:21] Speaker 6: to happen and it.
[1:43:22] Speaker 1: Happened to captives after they are freed?
[1:43:25] Speaker 6: Give me a verse where you're talking about this.
[1:43:28] Speaker 1: Guy does not want to engage in honest inconsistency usually
[1:43:32] Speaker 1: honest dialogue. So if you go if you go to
[1:43:35] Speaker 1: thirty one, the context is very serious talking about what's
[1:43:38] Speaker 1: happening after the seventy years? Says at that time says
[1:43:42] Speaker 1: the Lord I will be the god of all the
[1:43:44] Speaker 1: families of Israel. Does say it the little after the people,
[1:43:49] Speaker 1: the people who survived the sword found in the wilderness.
[1:43:54] Speaker 1: When Israel sought for rest, the Lord appeared to him.
[1:43:56] Speaker 6: Where does it say after the seventy years?
[1:43:58] Speaker 4: Come on?
[1:43:59] Speaker 1: Because this is after the captives?
[1:44:01] Speaker 6: Where does it say that though? Where does it say
[1:44:02] Speaker 6: that they're.
[1:44:03] Speaker 1: Already read it in verse sixteen it says they.
[1:44:05] Speaker 6: Were, I know it's a prophecy.
[1:44:06] Speaker 1: Hold on, they will come back from the land of
[1:44:09] Speaker 1: the enemy.
[1:44:10] Speaker 6: Where does it say it's after the seventy years.
[1:44:13] Speaker 1: Because they're going to be captives for seventy years, you
[1:44:16] Speaker 1: don't and twenty five?
[1:44:17] Speaker 6: Sure, but where does it say thirty one? Difference with
[1:44:19] Speaker 6: down captivity back.
[1:44:20] Speaker 1: From the land of the enemy while you're captives in
[1:44:23] Speaker 1: the land of the enemy.
[1:44:26] Speaker 6: Okay, so what might be talking about different captivity?
[1:44:29] Speaker 2: What else?
[1:44:29] Speaker 1: There is no different captivity? Yes, there is an There
[1:44:32] Speaker 1: is no captivity after the bat Woining captivity.
[1:44:34] Speaker 6: Yeah, Roman captivity? What about that?
[1:44:36] Speaker 1: The Roman captivity had nothing to do with this? This
[1:44:38] Speaker 1: is actually well, it's a prophecy, right, How do you
[1:44:41] Speaker 1: know about the Romany.
[1:44:43] Speaker 6: Yes, I did say it was.
[1:44:44] Speaker 1: I'm saying they were captives in Rome.
[1:44:47] Speaker 6: I didn't say they were. I said it's a prophecy.
[1:44:48] Speaker 1: You Roman captivity. Huh, there's no Roman captivity.
[1:44:53] Speaker 6: And well, hold on, I didn't say it was. I
[1:44:55] Speaker 6: said it could be that many captivities because it's a prophecy.
[1:44:58] Speaker 6: Wait with the Romans, cup with the just captive of
[1:45:00] Speaker 6: the Roman Empire.
[1:45:01] Speaker 1: No, they were not.
[1:45:02] Speaker 6: Yes, they were.
[1:45:04] Speaker 1: Captive. Means you are exiled out of your country by
[1:45:07] Speaker 1: the Babylonians or by the Assyrians.
[1:45:09] Speaker 6: Prior to them, or by When I mean by captive,
[1:45:11] Speaker 6: I mean under Roman rule.
[1:45:13] Speaker 1: I'm not talking about being under occupation. I'm talking about
[1:45:16] Speaker 1: being captives. I mean foreign land. Maya is talking about
[1:45:20] Speaker 1: coming back from a foreign land, says there is hope
[1:45:26] Speaker 1: for your future, says the Lord. Your children shall come
[1:45:29] Speaker 1: back to their own country. He's talking about children of
[1:45:32] Speaker 1: Israel who have been taken captive by the Babylonians, and
[1:45:36] Speaker 1: they're going to.
[1:45:37] Speaker 6: Come mention in Deuteronomy are going to the courses of Israel,
[1:45:40] Speaker 6: that they will be scattered into.
[1:45:42] Speaker 1: Many other nations, back to their land.
[1:45:47] Speaker 6: Yeah, they'll go back to their land. But also in
[1:45:49] Speaker 6: Deuteronomy from where it depends on from where, depending what
[1:45:54] Speaker 6: do you mean from where? What is the land of
[1:45:57] Speaker 6: the obviously Israel, that's where the originated.
[1:45:59] Speaker 1: What is the land of enemy? According to Jeremiah.
[1:46:02] Speaker 6: I don't know which enemy Jeremanic thirty one is talking about,
[1:46:05] Speaker 6: because in twenty five it tells me.
[1:46:06] Speaker 1: The same enemy.
[1:46:08] Speaker 4: How do you know?
[1:46:09] Speaker 1: Because he's writing in the middle of the Babylonian captivity.
[1:46:13] Speaker 6: It's the only you know, he's not referring to a prophecy.
[1:46:16] Speaker 1: No prophecy literally as the women are watching their children
[1:46:22] Speaker 1: being carried away.
[1:46:25] Speaker 6: Okay, it can refers to something else. You can refer
[1:46:27] Speaker 6: to that, so what it's not. No, there are many
[1:46:30] Speaker 6: prophetic things in the Bible. Come mean one thing, coming
[1:46:32] Speaker 6: another thing. For example, David writes about one. Yes he does.
[1:46:37] Speaker 1: For example, David, prope don't have multiple meanings.
[1:46:40] Speaker 6: Yes it does.
[1:46:40] Speaker 1: No, they don't. Yes, that's a that's a lie, you know,
[1:46:44] Speaker 1: you're coping.
[1:46:45] Speaker 6: You're coping.
[1:46:45] Speaker 1: That's a lie. You have to tell yourself. You like
[1:46:48] Speaker 1: the actual context of the original prophecy, you have to
[1:46:51] Speaker 1: make up new context. You have to make up new interpretations,
[1:46:55] Speaker 1: new prophecies. Imagine here and acting like a child, thinking
[1:46:59] Speaker 1: that you're actually doing good for Jesus right now, like
[1:47:03] Speaker 1: it's wild. You mean, so if you go to the
[1:47:06] Speaker 1: very beginning of the prophecy says I will give all
[1:47:10] Speaker 1: Judah into the hands of the King of Babylon, he
[1:47:12] Speaker 1: shall carry them. Oh, po, chapter is this to Babylon.
[1:47:16] Speaker 1: And every chapter Baia is dealing with the Babyloonian captivity.
[1:47:20] Speaker 6: I don't care what you're saying, school chapter, Every.
[1:47:23] Speaker 1: Single chapter in Kerrabiah is about the Babylonian captivity, every
[1:47:29] Speaker 1: last one.
[1:47:31] Speaker 6: Yeah, prove the screw up what chapter you reading?
[1:47:34] Speaker 1: The word Babylon shows up one hundred and fifty times
[1:47:38] Speaker 1: in the book.
[1:47:39] Speaker 6: I'm not rejecting that. I'm not rejecting that. I'm saying,
[1:47:42] Speaker 6: scroll up chapter where you're reading.
[1:47:44] Speaker 1: In chapter twenty, each chapter chapter twenty, I guess what
[1:47:47] Speaker 1: Babylon's mentioned in chapter twenty. They're mentioned in chapter twenty two,
[1:47:51] Speaker 1: they're mentioned in twenty four. They're mentioned in twenty five.
[1:47:54] Speaker 1: They're men. They're mentioned in chapter twenty seven in chapter abo,
[1:47:59] Speaker 1: I'm going to get about the one. They're mentioned in
[1:48:00] Speaker 1: chapter twenty eight. They're also mentioned hold On in chapter
[1:48:04] Speaker 1: twenty nine. They're also mentioned hold On in chapter thirty two.
[1:48:08] Speaker 6: I wasn't argument they were mentioned that.
[1:48:10] Speaker 1: It's almost like every single chapter in Jeremiah is dealing
[1:48:13] Speaker 1: with the Babylonian captivity.
[1:48:15] Speaker 6: It's almost like I never say it, wait, hold on, Like.
[1:48:17] Speaker 1: The actual context of Jeremiah is talking about the Babylonian
[1:48:21] Speaker 1: captivity and you're just better enough to gold on.
[1:48:25] Speaker 2: No, I'm not.
[1:48:26] Speaker 6: Yeah, I was talking about prophetic statement because where you
[1:48:29] Speaker 6: went to in Jeremiah twenty five was it? Was it
[1:48:32] Speaker 6: a prophetic statement?
[1:48:33] Speaker 1: Jeremiah thirty one, not just thirty one.
[1:48:36] Speaker 6: You went to a different when I was twenty something.
[1:48:37] Speaker 1: I was in twenty five, and in thirty one, both
[1:48:40] Speaker 1: of them are talking about the Babylonian captivity, that's the
[1:48:44] Speaker 1: land of the edity and talking.
[1:48:46] Speaker 6: About Sure you can talk about bubblon, but can also
[1:48:49] Speaker 6: mean the prophetic message. No it doesn't, Yes it does.
[1:48:51] Speaker 6: For example, yes it does if you if you look
[1:48:54] Speaker 6: at is.
[1:48:54] Speaker 2: Yes, it does.
[1:48:55] Speaker 6: If you look at Isaiah, yes it does. You look
[1:48:57] Speaker 6: at Isaiah, yes.
[1:48:58] Speaker 2: It does.
[1:48:59] Speaker 1: Give me a good reason why I would want to
[1:49:01] Speaker 1: accept a secondary meaning to the text and ignore the primary.
[1:49:04] Speaker 6: Meeting, because, for example, if you look to Isaiah, where
[1:49:07] Speaker 6: he also talks about Babylon, right, he also talks about
[1:49:11] Speaker 6: this angel who was with him in the garden of Eden, referring.
[1:49:15] Speaker 1: To the fourteen is not the devil.
[1:49:18] Speaker 6: It's talking about Babylon. But okay, when was When was
[1:49:20] Speaker 6: Babylon and you.
[1:49:21] Speaker 1: Talk about the king of Babylon? Was confusing?
[1:49:24] Speaker 6: When was the king of Babylon Eden?
[1:49:26] Speaker 1: You're confusing Ezekiel twenty eight with Isaiah fourteen.
[1:49:31] Speaker 4: Okay, I might have been Actually, hold on one, yeah,
[1:49:34] Speaker 4: I know.
[1:49:36] Speaker 6: Hey, at least I can see when I'm right or
[1:49:39] Speaker 6: wrong like you.
[1:49:39] Speaker 1: I'm like you, I'm not wrong.
[1:49:42] Speaker 6: Yeah you're wrong, you'rene's No.
[1:49:44] Speaker 1: I'm definitely not wrong.
[1:49:45] Speaker 6: Yeah, you're definitely wrong.
[1:49:47] Speaker 1: I'm definitely not wrong wrong.
[1:49:50] Speaker 6: Hold on, let me get the first.
[1:49:54] Speaker 1: Isaiah fourteen is about the King of Babylon, and he's
[1:49:57] Speaker 1: making fun of the King of Babylon by compar Herringham
[1:50:00] Speaker 1: to Assyrian mythology and The Syrian mythology is about the
[1:50:05] Speaker 1: shame of Athtar. That's the reference to Venus. That's why
[1:50:09] Speaker 1: it starts out referring to as helll ben Shekar. This
[1:50:13] Speaker 1: is a reference to the Syrian mythology of when Athtar
[1:50:17] Speaker 1: tried to take over the throne of Bail, but he
[1:50:20] Speaker 1: couldn't take over the throne of Bail. He was a
[1:50:21] Speaker 1: laughing stock. He got cast down off the mountain of Bail,
[1:50:25] Speaker 1: which you'll never guess is mount so offone. Interesting, that's
[1:50:29] Speaker 1: the mountain that the leader of Babylon is being cast
[1:50:32] Speaker 1: down from in this prophecy, it's using Syrian mythology. The
[1:50:37] Speaker 1: king of Babylon doesn't know anything about a devil figure.
[1:50:40] Speaker 1: He knows nothing.
[1:50:41] Speaker 6: Okay, So the King of Babylon also said that he
[1:50:43] Speaker 6: was sent to the most die and sit on the
[1:50:45] Speaker 6: throne of God.
[1:50:46] Speaker 1: Yes, yes, in the that's the mythology. No, listen to
[1:50:50] Speaker 1: what I'm saying. The mythology being echoed is not about Satan.
[1:50:53] Speaker 1: The mythology being echoed here is the ascent of Athtar
[1:50:58] Speaker 1: in the Divine Assembly.
[1:51:00] Speaker 6: He goes to Even if we want to go without reading,
[1:51:03] Speaker 6: even wait, hold on, if you want to go with
[1:51:04] Speaker 6: that interpretation is to proving my points that du.
[1:51:07] Speaker 1: Prophecy, I'm actually not proving your point at all. Yes,
[1:51:10] Speaker 1: it is agi the original prophecy of referring to two
[1:51:14] Speaker 1: people two things, right, It's not referring to two different ideas,
[1:51:18] Speaker 1: is it or is it bubblin Or it's referring to
[1:51:23] Speaker 1: the king of or referring to one individual, and it's
[1:51:28] Speaker 1: it's likening that individual to a mythology.
[1:51:31] Speaker 6: So it's two parties.
[1:51:32] Speaker 1: I play right, there's only one interpretation.
[1:51:35] Speaker 6: I'm not talking about interpretation. I'm talking about.
[1:51:36] Speaker 1: Parties too, about interpretations.
[1:51:38] Speaker 6: This talking about parties. I'm talking about parties.
[1:51:40] Speaker 1: This conversation, this conversation is not about parties. This conversation,
[1:51:44] Speaker 1: yes it is. The conversation is about whether or not
[1:51:46] Speaker 1: prophecies have two meanings. That's what we're talking about, whether
[1:51:51] Speaker 1: or not the prophecy should have a meaning that is
[1:51:54] Speaker 1: divorced from its original context.
[1:51:56] Speaker 6: Yes it does. And the profit of okay, because that's
[1:51:59] Speaker 6: who the Because what you.
[1:52:01] Speaker 1: Said, prophecy of Jeremiah is about the Babylonian captivity, and
[1:52:05] Speaker 1: you don't like that.
[1:52:07] Speaker 6: I didn't reject that is about the Babylonian captivity.
[1:52:09] Speaker 1: I'm saying you have why I accept. I accept that there.
[1:52:15] Speaker 6: I don't care what you accept or disagree on.
[1:52:17] Speaker 1: Anyone accept a second meaning.
[1:52:19] Speaker 6: I don't care what you accept or disaccept. Let's go
[1:52:21] Speaker 6: with what you said.
[1:52:23] Speaker 1: I don't know if you actually listen to my question.
[1:52:25] Speaker 6: So I'm listening.
[1:52:26] Speaker 1: You're saying that. You're saying that the prophecy of Jeremiah
[1:52:30] Speaker 1: has two meanings. It has a meaning in its original
[1:52:35] Speaker 1: and it has a second meaning. I'm merely asking you
[1:52:38] Speaker 1: why should anyone accept that a prophecy should be interpreted
[1:52:42] Speaker 1: by its second meaning, that is divorced from the original
[1:52:46] Speaker 1: context of the prophecy.
[1:52:52] Speaker 6: Because you proved it. I do that way, Yes, you
[1:52:55] Speaker 6: did when you mentioned the fair when you mentioned the
[1:52:57] Speaker 6: fairy tale of the foalse God, is that the King
[1:53:00] Speaker 6: of Babylon or the false God?
[1:53:01] Speaker 2: Answered me?
[1:53:02] Speaker 1: It is about the King of Babylon being.
[1:53:04] Speaker 6: Compared and the false God and the false God.
[1:53:07] Speaker 1: Being compared to Athtons and the false God.
[1:53:10] Speaker 6: Okay, so two people, that.
[1:53:12] Speaker 1: Is them that, Yes, there are two individuals, but is
[1:53:15] Speaker 1: not it is not two interpretations.
[1:53:21] Speaker 6: So Satan and the King of babelon are they two individuals?
[1:53:25] Speaker 1: I don't think Isaiah thought of Satan as existing.
[1:53:27] Speaker 5: That's what I asked.
[1:53:30] Speaker 6: So they're not two individuals.
[1:53:32] Speaker 1: I never said they were one individual.
[1:53:35] Speaker 6: So there are two individuals.
[1:53:36] Speaker 1: Well, I'm saying that there are two individuals.
[1:53:38] Speaker 6: Okay, so there are two individuals. There's no reason there
[1:53:41] Speaker 6: are two individuals.
[1:53:42] Speaker 1: There's no reason to put Satan into Isaiah fourteen.
[1:53:46] Speaker 6: Let's, in fact, let's throw away Satan. Let's go with
[1:53:48] Speaker 6: what you said, right too, like a myth right and
[1:53:52] Speaker 6: the captivity of Babylon. If it's too refer into two things,
[1:53:56] Speaker 6: like a false god. Comparing it to this, it's a
[1:53:59] Speaker 6: dual problem.
[1:54:00] Speaker 2: No, it's not.
[1:54:02] Speaker 1: Yes, dual prophecy, No you have you have no idea
[1:54:06] Speaker 1: what you're talking about. A dual prophecy means that it
[1:54:09] Speaker 1: has two interpretations.
[1:54:11] Speaker 6: Yes, you just gave me a second interpretation.
[1:54:13] Speaker 1: No I didn't.
[1:54:14] Speaker 6: Yes you did you mention the false where the false god?
[1:54:18] Speaker 1: I gave you a prime? Where does the primary? Where
[1:54:21] Speaker 1: does it say Satan?
[1:54:23] Speaker 6: I didn't say that. There you go, son of Satan?
[1:54:28] Speaker 6: It is it's an interpretation of Satan.
[1:54:30] Speaker 2: It's not.
[1:54:30] Speaker 1: It's using an interpretation of mythology that the Babylonian king
[1:54:35] Speaker 1: actually knew about the Babylonian king, didn't know anything about
[1:54:39] Speaker 1: the Satanic figure that you're referring to. In fact, at
[1:54:42] Speaker 1: the time Isaiah fourteen was written, Israel doesn't even know
[1:54:46] Speaker 1: anything about the Satan figure that you're talking about. Job
[1:54:50] Speaker 1: was written way after the captivity. Yes, it was written
[1:54:54] Speaker 1: after the Okay, so they did go ahead. Yeah, it
[1:54:57] Speaker 1: was written way after the captivity.
[1:54:58] Speaker 6: It doesn't it doesn't matter.
[1:54:59] Speaker 1: It's student Isaiah wrote hundreds of years before job.
[1:55:04] Speaker 2: I know that.
[1:55:05] Speaker 6: But it's students. That's an ok so what so that
[1:55:07] Speaker 6: mean the Jews today knew the Satan figure.
[1:55:10] Speaker 1: I'm talking about the time of Isaiah.
[1:55:12] Speaker 6: You're not good at it doesn't matter. That's process.
[1:55:15] Speaker 1: That's someone so childish, not capable of.
[1:55:18] Speaker 6: I'm just being likeds coming out of my mouth.
[1:55:21] Speaker 2: I'm just being like.
[1:55:22] Speaker 1: The fact of the matter is there's no.
[1:55:24] Speaker 6: Good you're brought to your interpretation.
[1:55:26] Speaker 1: They said, there's no good reason to take any prophecies
[1:55:30] Speaker 1: from the Old Testament and say that it has two interpretations,
[1:55:33] Speaker 1: because the second interpretation we gave divorce from the original
[1:55:38] Speaker 1: context is subjective. The second interpretation is whatever you wanted
[1:55:42] Speaker 1: to do, which is why prophecies should always be taken
[1:55:46] Speaker 1: in their original context. I'm reading Jeremiah, and I'm saying,
[1:55:53] Speaker 1: the original context of Jeremiah is how it should be interpreted.
[1:55:58] Speaker 1: You're reading Jeremiah and you're saying, no, you should nor
[1:56:02] Speaker 1: the original context. And what you should do then is
[1:56:06] Speaker 1: apply a second meaning to Jeremiah. So I'll ask you again,
[1:56:11] Speaker 1: what is the meaning why I would want to apply
[1:56:16] Speaker 1: a second meaning?
[1:56:17] Speaker 5: Did?
[1:56:18] Speaker 2: Then?
[1:56:18] Speaker 1: Why would I want to apply a second meaning to
[1:56:22] Speaker 1: the prophecy in Jeremiah.
[1:56:24] Speaker 6: Because you did it in Isaiah?
[1:56:26] Speaker 1: I didn't.
[1:56:27] Speaker 6: Yes you didn't. What does you say The false isah,
[1:56:29] Speaker 6: yes you did.
[1:56:30] Speaker 1: I'm not providing two different interpretations. I'm saying my interpretation
[1:56:35] Speaker 1: is a singular interpretation that takes.
[1:56:38] Speaker 6: Into account Okay, your interpretation.
[1:56:41] Speaker 1: My interpretation is a singular interpretation that takes into account
[1:56:46] Speaker 1: the context and the time period of the prophet Isaiah.
[1:56:50] Speaker 1: There is only one interpretation. Now, it's possible that my
[1:56:54] Speaker 1: interpretation is wrong, but that doesn't mean that there are
[1:56:57] Speaker 1: In fact.
[1:56:59] Speaker 6: Of course you're wrong.
[1:57:00] Speaker 1: Doesn't mean that there are two interpretations that are right.
[1:57:03] Speaker 1: There is still only one correct interpretation, and the one
[1:57:07] Speaker 1: correct interpretation has to be connected to the actual context
[1:57:12] Speaker 1: of the prophet and his time. So again, I'm not
[1:57:16] Speaker 1: asking you whether or not there are multiple ways to
[1:57:19] Speaker 1: read the text. I'm asking you about why I should
[1:57:23] Speaker 1: accept an original context interpretation and then also accept a
[1:57:28] Speaker 1: second dary interpretation that is divorced from the original context.
[1:57:34] Speaker 1: That is what I want to know about. What is
[1:57:36] Speaker 1: the good reason why I would want to accept a
[1:57:40] Speaker 1: second interpretation of a prophecy that is not connected to
[1:57:45] Speaker 1: the actual context of the prophecy. What is the reason
[1:57:48] Speaker 1: for that.
[1:57:51] Speaker 6: Because of what you did in Isaiah?
[1:57:53] Speaker 1: Okay, so you don't actually have a good answer. Answer
[1:57:56] Speaker 1: you can you're wrong, Okay, Well listen, I think the
[1:58:00] Speaker 1: audience has enough of your childish behavior for the night,
[1:58:03] Speaker 1: and I'm tired of it. I've been tired of it
[1:58:05] Speaker 1: for thirty minutes, maybe forty minutes at this point, So
[1:58:08] Speaker 1: I'm going to move on. I'm going to move on
[1:58:10] Speaker 1: to an adult.
[1:58:11] Speaker 4: They couldn't see him, and I was the one arguing
[1:58:14] Speaker 4: with you.
[1:58:14] Speaker 1: They thought you were the one.
[1:58:15] Speaker 4: Yes, I kept getting so many tugs.
[1:58:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy to me. All I wanted to do
[1:58:22] Speaker 1: was show him how Matthew was fallaciously reading the Old Testament,
[1:58:25] Speaker 1: and he couldn't handle it. He knew the point that
[1:58:27] Speaker 1: I was about to make. He knew that was going
[1:58:29] Speaker 1: to show him that Jeremiah wasn't talking about what Matthew
[1:58:32] Speaker 1: said it was, but he couldn't get over it. He
[1:58:34] Speaker 1: kept wanting to jump to something different. All right, guys,
[1:58:37] Speaker 1: let me get a couple of super chats in here. Sorry,
[1:58:40] Speaker 1: there's a bunch of them that came through, but I'm
[1:58:44] Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna see if I can catch up. Pat, Pat,
[1:58:46] Speaker 1: thank you for the two dour super chests, says Damn
[1:58:49] Speaker 1: justin get just getting here. What did it miss? Well,
[1:58:51] Speaker 1: you kind of missed a lot with the first caller.
[1:58:53] Speaker 1: We had a Muslim caller here that was pretty despicable.
[1:58:56] Speaker 1: And Eric, thank you for the two dollars super chest,
[1:58:58] Speaker 1: says Christians freed the slaves? Oh who from Yeah, from
[1:59:02] Speaker 1: the other Christians. That's one hundred percent right. And Rich,
[1:59:06] Speaker 1: thank you for the superchat, says debating, I don't believe
[1:59:10] Speaker 1: in God, Please don't touch children. Are I may not
[1:59:16] Speaker 1: understand what you're saying, right, are you saying you're debating
[1:59:18] Speaker 1: a Christian? I may listen. I appreciate the superchat, but
[1:59:23] Speaker 1: maybe a little more clear next time.
[1:59:26] Speaker 4: I think he said that when you're debating a Christian
[1:59:29] Speaker 4: that you do not believe in the gods. When you're
[1:59:31] Speaker 4: debating a Muslim, please do not touch kids.
[1:59:33] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's actually a good point. Yeah, well, I
[1:59:38] Speaker 1: would have loved to have the conversation about why his
[1:59:41] Speaker 1: God wasn't real. But he wasn't really giving me much.
[1:59:44] Speaker 1: I was hoping he'd like turned to the Koran like
[1:59:47] Speaker 1: I figured he'd give me like the Koran predicted stuff
[1:59:50] Speaker 1: that came true type of argument or something, but he
[1:59:52] Speaker 1: didn't really get around to it. Oh shit, guys, there's
[1:59:57] Speaker 1: so many super chats that I there's like thirty super
[2:00:00] Speaker 1: chats that backed up here. I apologize if I don't
[2:00:03] Speaker 1: get through all of them. Helium, thank you for the
[2:00:05] Speaker 1: super jest says all hail oie Josh. May he drip
[2:00:07] Speaker 1: like hot fries Big w McDonald's hot fries for sure,
[2:00:11] Speaker 1: And it says from Healium again. Job ain't got nothing
[2:00:14] Speaker 1: on the patients of Justin. You know what, if Job
[2:00:19] Speaker 1: is pretty patient. But listen, if somebody killed my whole family,
[2:00:22] Speaker 1: I'd be cursing that God. That's crazy, that Job wouldn't
[2:00:25] Speaker 1: do that. But It's amazing to me that there are
[2:00:28] Speaker 1: quite like there are guests who will get up in
[2:00:30] Speaker 1: here and have that kind of dialogue and they think
[2:00:33] Speaker 1: that they're doing well. It's crazy to me. As a Christian,
[2:00:36] Speaker 1: I would have been so embarrassed to even associate myself
[2:00:40] Speaker 1: with that kind of a guest. Tyler, thank you for
[2:00:42] Speaker 1: the ten hour supertest, says, I don't think this joker
[2:00:44] Speaker 1: knows what a fallacy actually is. He doesn't know what
[2:00:46] Speaker 1: a fallacy is. He had no idea. He's just using
[2:00:49] Speaker 1: words he learned in like freshman, you know, philosophy class
[2:00:53] Speaker 1: one oh one. Goblin brain, thank you for the Superjet, says,
[2:00:56] Speaker 1: call in your ability to read a language and appeal
[2:00:58] Speaker 1: to authority is such a crazy, dumb clown work. Praise Doug.
[2:01:01] Speaker 1: I know and listen. At least I proceed with caution
[2:01:05] Speaker 1: with Greek. It's been so many years since I really
[2:01:07] Speaker 1: could read Greek well that I leaned really heavily on
[2:01:11] Speaker 1: the dictionary, like I still understand how the language works.
[2:01:13] Speaker 1: I can still read the words. I just forgot my
[2:01:16] Speaker 1: vocabulary because I don't really use it. Because I was
[2:01:19] Speaker 1: an Old Testament guy. I studied the Old Testament in school.
[2:01:22] Speaker 1: Mckennath Jack, thank you for the super chat, says, that's
[2:01:24] Speaker 1: an appeal to authority's fallacy. Early church fathers said it
[2:01:27] Speaker 1: was Matthew. Make it make sense, Yes, listen if you're
[2:01:30] Speaker 1: if your claim that Matthew wrote it despite his name
[2:01:33] Speaker 1: but not being on it is my church father said,
[2:01:36] Speaker 1: So that's an appeal to authority as well. And Delilah Scissors,
[2:01:40] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the fight our superchat says,
[2:01:42] Speaker 1: how awkward when they are so confident they're right yet
[2:01:45] Speaker 1: cannot feel the toasting of being completely cooked. Ll Doug
[2:01:48] Speaker 1: is the rock. That's my favorite thing is when they
[2:01:50] Speaker 1: come in and they're they're so confident of their position
[2:01:55] Speaker 1: and they have no idea how like shallow the position is,
[2:01:58] Speaker 1: but like they're convinced that they're doing good. Space Lord,
[2:02:03] Speaker 1: thank you for the fight. Hour supertest says, Justin Martyr
[2:02:05] Speaker 1: quotes several Gospels, doesn't mention the name of any authors,
[2:02:08] Speaker 1: makes it confusing to read. Circle one point fifty. That's true.
[2:02:11] Speaker 1: There's a bunch of quotes from the early Church where
[2:02:14] Speaker 1: they're quoting from the gospel authors without telling you what
[2:02:16] Speaker 1: they're actually quoting from. And even when they do, like
[2:02:20] Speaker 1: mention the gospels. We don't really know exactly what was
[2:02:24] Speaker 1: in the gospel that they're quoting from other than the
[2:02:27] Speaker 1: snippet that they quoted from, which was the point that
[2:02:29] Speaker 1: I was making that when they say Matthew, we don't
[2:02:32] Speaker 1: know what all was in the Gospel of Matthew other
[2:02:35] Speaker 1: than the parts that they quoted from. Look at the trees,
[2:02:39] Speaker 1: Big w for the name, thank you for the five
[2:02:41] Speaker 1: hour Superjet says that Color's brain was in fragments. It
[2:02:44] Speaker 1: certainly was, but his mom told me you was special,
[2:02:48] Speaker 1: So there's that. And Evan thank you for the superjet says, Wow,
[2:02:51] Speaker 1: God has low standard for who represents them. Indeed, if
[2:02:55] Speaker 1: that's the best God has, God should be embarrassed. And
[2:02:58] Speaker 1: Ahy're thank you for the fight hour Superchat says I'm
[2:03:01] Speaker 1: glad we got one of the dumbest and most obnoxious
[2:03:03] Speaker 1: Christians to balance out the awful Muslim caller we had first.
[2:03:06] Speaker 1: Bro thinks he's cooking too, Solo, thank you for the manifesting,
[2:03:10] Speaker 1: and Lapiquete, thank you for the face bait. I appreciate that,
[2:03:13] Speaker 1: and you're right, he really thought he was cooking. I
[2:03:15] Speaker 1: don't know why people think that, like constantly interrupting and
[2:03:18] Speaker 1: over talking and not like actually wanting to engage in
[2:03:22] Speaker 1: the text. Is like that that they're doing well. It's
[2:03:25] Speaker 1: funny how quickly they don't want to read the book
[2:03:28] Speaker 1: with you, like they want to talk about like how
[2:03:30] Speaker 1: it's true, except don't read it to me. Whatever you do,
[2:03:34] Speaker 1: don't read it to me, and mostly givezers. Thank you
[2:03:37] Speaker 1: for the ten hour superchat, says bro knows he's outmatched
[2:03:40] Speaker 1: and thinks he sounds smarter by yelling fallacy improves your
[2:03:43] Speaker 1: claim solo. Thank you again for the manifesting big w Yeah,
[2:03:48] Speaker 1: that's what he was doing. He just he thought like
[2:03:50] Speaker 1: if he could shout enough philosophy one oh one words
[2:03:53] Speaker 1: that he'd be doing well. The Deep Burrito, Thank you
[2:03:57] Speaker 1: for the super chat says callers should join a circus.
[2:03:59] Speaker 1: He's a cunning stunt.
[2:04:01] Speaker 2: He is.
[2:04:02] Speaker 1: He definitely belongs in a circus. He was a clown
[2:04:05] Speaker 1: and techno manager. Thank you for the dinna Our supertest
[2:04:07] Speaker 1: says it's an appeal to authority fallacy when the person
[2:04:10] Speaker 1: you are appealing to is an authority of the subject.
[2:04:15] Speaker 1: It's listening. It's listed in the definition of the fallacy.
[2:04:20] Speaker 1: Yeah I agree, Yeah, yeah, when you're appealing to authority. Yeah,
[2:04:23] Speaker 1: but here's the thing. There are exceptions to the appeal
[2:04:27] Speaker 1: to authority fallacy. Like so if you appeal to a
[2:04:31] Speaker 1: doctor about medicine, that's not an appeal to authority fallacy
[2:04:37] Speaker 1: because at some point you have to understand that there
[2:04:40] Speaker 1: are professionals in a particular field of study, and I
[2:04:43] Speaker 1: agree that you can, like an appeal to authority fallacy
[2:04:47] Speaker 1: would be like, well, this one guy, there's this one
[2:04:49] Speaker 1: guy that believes that that, and that might qualify as
[2:04:52] Speaker 1: an appealed to authority. But if you appeal to like, hey,
[2:04:55] Speaker 1: we have consensus of medicine experts, we have consensus of
[2:04:58] Speaker 1: biblical experts, we have census of cosmologists. I don't find
[2:05:02] Speaker 1: that to be as big of an appeal to authority
[2:05:04] Speaker 1: as saying like, well, my one guy said that's how
[2:05:08] Speaker 1: That's typically how I read the appeal to authority. I
[2:05:11] Speaker 1: can't say the appeal to authority, thank you far the
[2:05:14] Speaker 1: super chat techno, it says not a fallacy, dang it
[2:05:16] Speaker 1: not when they are an authority. I know that's crazy.
[2:05:19] Speaker 1: When somebody is an authority on a subject, That's what
[2:05:21] Speaker 1: I'm saying, and you appeal to them, that's not as
[2:05:25] Speaker 1: much of an appeal to authority as people are claiming.
[2:05:27] Speaker 1: And Everlasting, thank you so much for the Galaxy Big
[2:05:31] Speaker 1: w Everlasting and SHANEA. W On becoming eleven month subscriber,
[2:05:37] Speaker 1: and here we go, Space Lord's got a passage up
[2:05:39] Speaker 1: for us. I'm gonna actually have to put a document
[2:05:42] Speaker 1: together to prove market authority. I haven't done it because,
[2:05:46] Speaker 1: to be honest, most people just accept it, like they're
[2:05:49] Speaker 1: most Christians know about market authority and they're they're like
[2:05:53] Speaker 1: they're willing to accept it. It's not something you have
[2:05:55] Speaker 1: to argue about. But sometimes you get like these like
[2:05:58] Speaker 1: real jackass guests that are like, well, it's not true,
[2:06:01] Speaker 1: Like any claim you make is by definition not true
[2:06:04] Speaker 1: until you can prove it. I understand why they would
[2:06:06] Speaker 1: do that, because it shifts the burden away from them,
[2:06:10] Speaker 1: Like he didn't want the burden of demonstrating that. Matthew
[2:06:13] Speaker 1: actually wrote, Matthew, so what you do? You shift the burden?
[2:06:17] Speaker 1: Try to get out of it. But let me grab
[2:06:19] Speaker 1: those passages real quick. I'm going to put it in
[2:06:22] Speaker 1: the New King James Bible. The New King James Bible
[2:06:25] Speaker 1: has a good tendency to put things in similar word
[2:06:30] Speaker 1: order when they quote from the Greek, even though it's
[2:06:33] Speaker 1: not actually going to match exactly what the word order
[2:06:36] Speaker 1: in the Greek was. We can pull it up to
[2:06:40] Speaker 1: in the Greek and see what the word order is.
[2:06:44] Speaker 1: See see Mark thirteen twelve, Matthew ten twenty one. I
[2:06:49] Speaker 1: don't think those are the two passages you're referring to,
[2:06:54] Speaker 1: but yeah, those are not the passages you're referring to.
[2:07:00] Speaker 1: Mark thirteen is about the Perusia, and Matthew ten is
[2:07:07] Speaker 1: not even close to that. Maybe typo, but listen, you're right.
[2:07:13] Speaker 1: There are passages in the Gospels where they match word
[2:07:18] Speaker 1: for word up to like twenty twenty five thirty words
[2:07:20] Speaker 1: in the same order in the which if you had
[2:07:23] Speaker 1: a Greek text you wouldn't expect that. So many guests
[2:07:27] Speaker 1: get cornered and end up saying something like, that's just
[2:07:31] Speaker 1: your opinion, man, call it de Lebowski surrender. You're right
[2:07:35] Speaker 1: that actually it really is a good I do like
[2:07:37] Speaker 1: that line though from the bis Lebowski. That's just like
[2:07:40] Speaker 1: your opinion, man, And that's not a terrible thing to say.
[2:07:43] Speaker 1: Like if somebody's saying something that you know they can't
[2:07:46] Speaker 1: prove then it is. It's a powerful thing to say, like,
[2:07:49] Speaker 1: well that's just your opinion. Can you demonstrate it to
[2:07:51] Speaker 1: be true? Which is you? I mean to give him credit,
[2:07:54] Speaker 1: that was something that he was leaning on pretty heavily.
[2:07:57] Speaker 1: Is I won't accept anything you tell me. Any thing
[2:08:00] Speaker 1: you tell me you have to physically demonstrate live, like
[2:08:04] Speaker 1: on the air, Like I have to pull up the
[2:08:05] Speaker 1: Greek text and demonstrate it. Tyler, thank you for the supertest,
[2:08:09] Speaker 1: says this guest knows nothing about the Bible. Typical Paul
[2:08:12] Speaker 1: worshipper reminds me of Q Flop. Yeah, actually I agree
[2:08:15] Speaker 1: with you there, and Pedro says this conversation turned from
[2:08:19] Speaker 1: stubborn mail to stubborn child and ignorant of the brainwash
[2:08:23] Speaker 1: he was injected with. You're one hundred percent right he was.
[2:08:27] Speaker 1: He definitely wasn't an adult, and I he definitely didn't
[2:08:31] Speaker 1: want to come up for honest dialogue. Gate's a delirium.
[2:08:33] Speaker 1: Thank you for the ten dollar supertest, says I never
[2:08:35] Speaker 1: said that caller who just said that I know the
[2:08:40] Speaker 1: lies you have to tell yourself. All right, guys, we
[2:08:42] Speaker 1: got more super chests, but I'm going to get the
[2:08:43] Speaker 1: next guest up in here. If you're watching this on YouTube, guys,
[2:08:47] Speaker 1: you can get in the guest box. There's a link
[2:08:50] Speaker 1: in the description of the video for people on YouTube
[2:08:52] Speaker 1: to join the discussion. You don't have to be on
[2:08:54] Speaker 1: TikTok to join the discussion. Ernesto, I'm trying to get
[2:09:01] Speaker 1: you back in here. I know you've been waiting for
[2:09:03] Speaker 1: a while, even though you couldn't connect it first. Ernesto's
[2:09:08] Speaker 1: probably not gonna connect again. Ernesto cannot connect, so we'll
[2:09:15] Speaker 1: move on to the next one. All right, let's get
[2:09:19] Speaker 1: next in line. Charlie. Happy Valentine's to you as well.
[2:09:26] Speaker 1: I reactor, thank you for the six sixty six says
[2:09:28] Speaker 1: Happy Valentine's Day to Sharon and Doug. To that guy's
[2:09:33] Speaker 1: girlfriend run he's a darvo. Yeah, he's definitely. Yeah, I
[2:09:39] Speaker 1: check his hard drives. You don't want to know what
[2:09:42] Speaker 1: he's up to in his private life. Well, they disconnected
[2:09:45] Speaker 1: pretty fast. I don't know what happened, but we'll try
[2:09:46] Speaker 1: the next one. Stinky's been waiting for a while, so
[2:09:49] Speaker 1: we'll get Stinky next in line. And mechanic Jack, you're right,
[2:09:56] Speaker 1: thank you for the supertit says, where does it say that,
[2:09:58] Speaker 1: Justin starts reading, Oh, you're preaching again. This guy is
[2:10:01] Speaker 1: a parody of himself. Your patience is astounding, mechanic Jack.
[2:10:04] Speaker 1: I was hoping eventually, because sometimes when you have contentious arguments,
[2:10:09] Speaker 1: if you let it go on long enough, eventually, like
[2:10:11] Speaker 1: the party will tire out and then you can get
[2:10:14] Speaker 1: to a point where you have some honest dialogue. But
[2:10:18] Speaker 1: unfortunately we never got to that point. Also, uh, there's somebody. Oh, come,
[2:10:23] Speaker 1: I'm sorry. For a second, I thought somebody was commenting
[2:10:25] Speaker 1: as me and the YouTube chat solo. Thank you for
[2:10:28] Speaker 1: the handhearts. I'm going to bring the next guest in
[2:10:30] Speaker 1: because this guest is not connecting. You know, eventually, we're
[2:10:33] Speaker 1: going to find a guest that can connect. But we'll
[2:10:36] Speaker 1: do what we can. A lot of slow connections tonight.
[2:10:43] Speaker 3: There we go.
[2:10:45] Speaker 1: How you doing three five?
[2:10:46] Speaker 2: Hack?
[2:10:49] Speaker 7: Oh?
[2:10:49] Speaker 6: I didn't mean to call.
[2:10:51] Speaker 1: Oh, no, worries, I got jad He's oops, Yeah, that works,
[2:10:59] Speaker 1: that works? Yes, all right, let's get the next guest
[2:11:03] Speaker 1: in here. We're gonna get Joe in the guest box. Medusa,
[2:11:09] Speaker 1: I think where you might be right and says I
[2:11:11] Speaker 1: don't know how you had this strength for this guest
[2:11:13] Speaker 1: I don't know how I put up with that guest
[2:11:16] Speaker 1: as long as I did. It's wild that these people
[2:11:20] Speaker 1: get up here and behave that way and they think
[2:11:21] Speaker 1: that they're doing God proud and uh clac thank you
[2:11:24] Speaker 1: for the fight, Dollar super thanks, I appreciate that, and mindful,
[2:11:28] Speaker 1: thank you for the fight. Dour super Jest says, you're
[2:11:29] Speaker 1: cooking this guy like a burnt offering and doctrination is sad.
[2:11:33] Speaker 1: I really appreciate that. I feel like we could have
[2:11:35] Speaker 1: done more cooking if he wasn't more obstinate. It's very
[2:11:38] Speaker 1: difficult to actually do cooking if, in fact, like your
[2:11:43] Speaker 1: interlocular is unwilling to have dialogue with you, right, And
[2:11:47] Speaker 1: I think that's the difficult part with some of those
[2:11:49] Speaker 1: conversations is when like when it becomes apparent that they're
[2:11:52] Speaker 1: actually not going to have dialogue, like they came in
[2:11:55] Speaker 1: and they think they're going to steamroll you and just
[2:11:57] Speaker 1: like ask unreasonable things to you that they're not willing
[2:12:02] Speaker 1: to prove themselves, then maybe don't even entertain the conversation.
[2:12:06] Speaker 1: Well they dropped as well. Guys, we're going to keep
[2:12:08] Speaker 1: pulling people from the queue. Somebody is going to come
[2:12:11] Speaker 1: up from the queue and actually connect. I don't know
[2:12:15] Speaker 1: why it's been so difficult to get somebody, but somebody
[2:12:18] Speaker 1: is going to have reception. Elie Silver Surfer, good to
[2:12:21] Speaker 1: see you tonight. Thank you for the ten dollars super thanks.
[2:12:23] Speaker 1: I really appreciate that, and I agree with you, Pat
[2:12:26] Speaker 1: Pat Praise the Almighty Doug. This guy finds sense. I
[2:12:29] Speaker 1: don't think he will, but maybe he'll be shamed enough
[2:12:32] Speaker 1: by the general public and everlasting. Thank you for the Blowpop.
[2:12:36] Speaker 1: We're still trying to get Hippie Witch to connect. Hippi Witch,
[2:12:40] Speaker 1: We'll see if your connection is strong enough to get
[2:12:42] Speaker 1: you in here. The last fry Bender. Thank you for
[2:12:44] Speaker 1: the ten hour. Super Chest says you learn this much
[2:12:47] Speaker 1: and much more. This guy is looking for any gotcha
[2:12:50] Speaker 1: he can get his hands on. You're right, he was
[2:12:52] Speaker 1: actually looking for a dialogue. He was looking to find
[2:12:54] Speaker 1: gotcha's and burden shift and you know things like that.
[2:13:00] Speaker 1: I was hoping we'd actually get to the point where
[2:13:03] Speaker 1: we can read the text together, because I think that's
[2:13:05] Speaker 1: where the most interesting information is what the text actually
[2:13:08] Speaker 1: has to say, right, Because you can argue all day
[2:13:11] Speaker 1: about like who you think wrote it. I think those
[2:13:17] Speaker 1: are conversations that most people typically will agree to disagree on.
[2:13:23] Speaker 1: But what you really can't disagree on is what the
[2:13:26] Speaker 1: text says. That's why reading it is way easier. All right, Well,
[2:13:29] Speaker 1: keep on rolling. I'm Charlie again, Charlie, will see if
[2:13:33] Speaker 1: you can connect this time.
[2:13:34] Speaker 3: There we go.
[2:13:35] Speaker 1: Charlie, Hi, doing good?
[2:13:37] Speaker 3: How are you doing?
[2:13:38] Speaker 1: Very good? Thank you for asking. Charlie, are at least
[2:13:40] Speaker 1: eighteen in Are you a believer?
[2:13:42] Speaker 2: Yes?
[2:13:43] Speaker 1: I am?
[2:13:44] Speaker 2: Cool?
[2:13:44] Speaker 1: And what God do you believe in?
[2:13:46] Speaker 3: The God of the Bible?
[2:13:48] Speaker 1: Cool? And what be the best evidence or the best
[2:13:50] Speaker 1: argument for the God of the Bible being real?
[2:13:55] Speaker 3: I think maybe the cosmological argument.
[2:13:58] Speaker 1: Sure, you want to give me your version of it?
[2:14:02] Speaker 3: Well, yeah, but do you believe in internal universe or
[2:14:06] Speaker 3: a like it was there was the beginning for the universe.
[2:14:11] Speaker 1: I believe in eternal universe. I believe in the Big
[2:14:13] Speaker 1: Bang Big Crunch model that there's infinite cycles of expansion
[2:14:17] Speaker 1: and contraction.
[2:14:20] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[2:14:21] Speaker 3: I don't really understand how that works. So could you
[2:14:24] Speaker 3: explain that?
[2:14:25] Speaker 1: Yeah, the universe expands to the point where eventually it
[2:14:31] Speaker 1: flows down and gravity pulls it back in, and then
[2:14:34] Speaker 1: it comes back in a smaller denser hot mass, and
[2:14:38] Speaker 1: then it begins to expand again, and it does that infinitely.
[2:14:44] Speaker 3: And what's the evidence for an eternal universe?
[2:14:47] Speaker 1: What's the evidence that it didn't exist?
[2:14:51] Speaker 3: Because everything that has existed begin to exist at one point, No,
[2:14:55] Speaker 3: it didn't. Can you give me examples of that?
[2:15:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, everything that we first of all, everything that were
[2:15:03] Speaker 1: made up, like all the atoms in our body, right,
[2:15:06] Speaker 1: all of the atoms in our body were initially in
[2:15:09] Speaker 1: something else, like they were part of the earth, right, yeah, okay,
[2:15:13] Speaker 1: And everything that made up the Earth before the Earth
[2:15:15] Speaker 1: was made was some other form in the cosmos.
[2:15:18] Speaker 2: Right.
[2:15:24] Speaker 3: I don't think that the universe is eternal, So.
[2:15:26] Speaker 1: No, okay, Well, I guess the question would be, then,
[2:15:31] Speaker 1: what would be the evidence that would lead one to
[2:15:33] Speaker 1: conclude that everything around us, everything that we know exists,
[2:15:38] Speaker 1: that somehow didn't exist at one point.
[2:15:41] Speaker 3: I mean, this is a very new theory, so I
[2:15:42] Speaker 3: don't know why you're explaining it, Like it's a very
[2:15:44] Speaker 3: widely held theory about the universe, that the universe being eternal.
[2:15:48] Speaker 3: I think scientists would mostly agree with the Big Bang theory.
[2:15:52] Speaker 1: I agree with the big Bang theory. My model includes
[2:15:55] Speaker 1: a big bang.
[2:15:56] Speaker 3: So do you believe do you hold to heat death
[2:15:58] Speaker 3: or no?
[2:16:00] Speaker 1: No, I don't hold the heat death theory, although I
[2:16:02] Speaker 1: would say a lot of people don't hold it the
[2:16:05] Speaker 1: heat death theory.
[2:16:08] Speaker 3: Okay, and then how do we know that? So you
[2:16:11] Speaker 3: believe that energy is wearing out?
[2:16:15] Speaker 2: What energy?
[2:16:17] Speaker 3: Energy in the atmosphere, like every time energy is transferred
[2:16:19] Speaker 3: from one form to another, it's moving to a less
[2:16:22] Speaker 3: usable form.
[2:16:23] Speaker 1: No, I don't think you understand what that is even about.
[2:16:26] Speaker 1: In fact, I just had this discussion with doctor Blitz
[2:16:28] Speaker 1: the other day, and that's not what you're misunderstanding what
[2:16:33] Speaker 1: the science is. I don't believe that the energy in
[2:16:35] Speaker 1: the universe is wearing out or going anywhere.
[2:16:40] Speaker 3: So you don't believe I forget what law it is?
[2:16:44] Speaker 3: The law of entropy?
[2:16:45] Speaker 5: Is it?
[2:16:46] Speaker 1: That's not what the law of entropy is. But I
[2:16:47] Speaker 1: know what the law of entropy is.
[2:16:49] Speaker 3: Maybe it's the first law of the third dynamics something
[2:16:52] Speaker 3: like that. Is energy is always energy is always moving
[2:16:55] Speaker 3: to a less usable form.
[2:16:56] Speaker 1: That's not a law of thermodynamics. But basically, what you're
[2:17:00] Speaker 1: suggesting is that the energy, because it's being transferred, is
[2:17:05] Speaker 1: going to be spread out. Okay, So, for example, when
[2:17:11] Speaker 1: you've got a closed system and the amount of energy
[2:17:16] Speaker 1: or the amount of heat in any given part of
[2:17:18] Speaker 1: the system, it's going to reach equilibrium. The hot items
[2:17:22] Speaker 1: are actually going to cool off and the cool items
[2:17:24] Speaker 1: are actually going to warm up because there's going to
[2:17:27] Speaker 1: be heat transfer. But that doesn't mean that the heat
[2:17:30] Speaker 1: is not going to be usable.
[2:17:32] Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's going to be less usable.
[2:17:34] Speaker 1: No, it's not.
[2:17:36] Speaker 3: Energy never transfers one hundred percent of the time. It's
[2:17:39] Speaker 3: all some of it, some of it is always left
[2:17:42] Speaker 3: to a less usable form, but it's still there.
[2:17:45] Speaker 1: First of all, you've got a couple of problems. Like
[2:17:47] Speaker 1: energy is not a thing. By the way, energy is
[2:17:50] Speaker 1: not like a stuff you can't you can't like a
[2:17:52] Speaker 1: touch in energy. Energy is a property, technically a property
[2:17:56] Speaker 1: of matter. It's like a measured rate of change in
[2:18:01] Speaker 1: in like direction and velocity of like a given item.
[2:18:09] Speaker 3: But you're just like going against what science says.
[2:18:13] Speaker 1: No, I'm literally not You kind of are.
[2:18:17] Speaker 3: Literally true that energy is always moving to a less
[2:18:20] Speaker 3: usable form.
[2:18:21] Speaker 1: That's not true.
[2:18:23] Speaker 3: It is true.
[2:18:24] Speaker 1: It's not true.
[2:18:28] Speaker 3: Okay, you can say it's not true, but it literally
[2:18:30] Speaker 3: is true.
[2:18:30] Speaker 1: It literally is not true.
[2:18:35] Speaker 3: I'm saying that every time energy transfers from one to
[2:18:39] Speaker 3: another little is lost into a format is no longer usable.
[2:18:42] Speaker 1: It's not lost. The energy doesn't doesn't go into oblivion.
[2:18:52] Speaker 1: It's not a thing that can be lost to begin with.
[2:18:55] Speaker 1: It's not a thing that ceases or begins to exist.
[2:18:59] Speaker 1: Energy is a property, it's an attribute of the of
[2:19:03] Speaker 1: the world, of the physical world.
[2:19:08] Speaker 3: So there's just unlimited energy.
[2:19:10] Speaker 1: No, I didn't say that either.
[2:19:14] Speaker 3: So then, so if it's not unlimited, that means that
[2:19:17] Speaker 3: there's a limited supply of it.
[2:19:19] Speaker 1: I agree, I think there there is probably a finite
[2:19:24] Speaker 1: amount of energy in the cast.
[2:19:26] Speaker 3: Okay, now you're proving my point. So if there's a Okay,
[2:19:29] Speaker 3: if there's a finite amount of energy in the universe
[2:19:31] Speaker 3: and the universe is eternal, that means it expands forever
[2:19:34] Speaker 3: to the left and.
[2:19:34] Speaker 2: To the right, no matter where where we are in.
[2:19:38] Speaker 1: How does it mean just because there's energy in the
[2:19:41] Speaker 1: universe doesn't mean that it expands forever.
[2:19:46] Speaker 3: You don't think that it's eternal. No, I'm not saying
[2:19:48] Speaker 3: energy is eternal. I'm saying you think that the universe
[2:19:50] Speaker 3: is eternal.
[2:19:51] Speaker 1: The universe is eternal. The expansion doesn't go on forever.
[2:19:57] Speaker 3: So if there's a limited amount of energy, though, and
[2:20:00] Speaker 3: the universe is eternal, that means we would have already
[2:20:03] Speaker 3: run out of usable energy.
[2:20:05] Speaker 1: By wrong Again, you're assuming that energy has like a
[2:20:09] Speaker 1: usability to it, and you're also assuming that the universe
[2:20:13] Speaker 1: just goes on forever in the same, like the same expansion.
[2:20:18] Speaker 1: But I already told you I don't believe that. I
[2:20:19] Speaker 1: think the universe is in a cycle of big bangs,
[2:20:22] Speaker 1: big crunches. Eventually it's all going to collapse back in
[2:20:25] Speaker 1: on itself. All the energy that's in our universe now
[2:20:31] Speaker 1: will still be in our universe when it collapses.
[2:20:34] Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, I think I see what you're saying.
[2:20:37] Speaker 1: It doesn't go anywhere. It's still part of the universe.
[2:20:40] Speaker 1: Where's it going to go? And energy is a property
[2:20:45] Speaker 1: of the stuff in the universe.
[2:20:49] Speaker 3: So you believe that if heat death was an option,
[2:20:52] Speaker 3: you would not because of that, you would not rely
[2:20:55] Speaker 3: on heat death.
[2:20:57] Speaker 1: I don't think heat death is in my model, is
[2:20:59] Speaker 1: what I'm saying. That the model I subscribe to does
[2:21:02] Speaker 1: not include heat death. And there's a lot of good
[2:21:04] Speaker 1: reasons why my model makes more sense than the heat
[2:21:08] Speaker 1: death model.
[2:21:08] Speaker 3: But so you think that this is more likely than
[2:21:12] Speaker 3: they're being a creator with all the consistencies that we
[2:21:15] Speaker 3: see in.
[2:21:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, because there's no evidence for a creator.
[2:21:19] Speaker 3: And while I'm saying telling evidence for the do you
[2:21:22] Speaker 3: think that the universe existed on a size of a
[2:21:26] Speaker 3: period on a piece of paper? I know it's bigger
[2:21:27] Speaker 3: than No, I don't believe that. Okay, but it's still condensed,
[2:21:31] Speaker 3: super condensed, super condensed, and it randomly exploded without any
[2:21:38] Speaker 3: order or structure into the universe that we have. If
[2:21:41] Speaker 3: thirty plus of the universal constants changed, why a mere
[2:21:44] Speaker 3: factor life would cease to exist.
[2:21:46] Speaker 2: So is the universe.
[2:21:46] Speaker 3: If oxygen in the universe went from twenty one percent,
[2:21:49] Speaker 3: so I think, I forget what it was exactly. I
[2:21:50] Speaker 3: think sixteen percent, fires would break out. So what we
[2:21:53] Speaker 3: see these consistencies, anythink that a random explosion could have
[2:21:57] Speaker 3: caused all of this.
[2:21:58] Speaker 1: So the problem that you have here is you're that
[2:22:00] Speaker 1: life is the goal of the universe. Like, so if
[2:22:03] Speaker 1: if the goal of the universe was to produce life,
[2:22:06] Speaker 1: and we have all of these constants that are necessary
[2:22:09] Speaker 1: for life, then you would say, yeah, it's very real.
[2:22:12] Speaker 1: It seems almost unreal that we have life, given that
[2:22:16] Speaker 1: it's so hard for life to arise. But in my model,
[2:22:20] Speaker 1: and I would say in everybody's model that are atheists,
[2:22:24] Speaker 1: the universe has no purpose. Like, the universe isn't trying
[2:22:28] Speaker 1: to make life. It just happened to be. At some
[2:22:31] Speaker 1: point in the infinite past, infinite future of the universe,
[2:22:34] Speaker 1: it did produce life. So if the odds of the
[2:22:37] Speaker 1: universe producing life is anything other than zero, even if
[2:22:42] Speaker 1: that odd is one in a trillion trillion children, then
[2:22:45] Speaker 1: it's inevitable that it's going to happen eventually.
[2:22:48] Speaker 3: That's the same with the existence of the god. If
[2:22:51] Speaker 3: the existence of a god is probable in an universe,
[2:22:54] Speaker 3: I means it's probable in this universe, but it's not probable.
[2:22:57] Speaker 3: You're just saying you don't think so. You think that
[2:23:00] Speaker 3: your model is at least one out of however many
[2:23:03] Speaker 3: probable chance, But you don't think that the existence of
[2:23:05] Speaker 3: a god is one out of a trillion.
[2:23:08] Speaker 2: No.
[2:23:08] Speaker 1: No, my model is not like a probability. My model
[2:23:11] Speaker 1: is consistent with the actual observations. So the observations is
[2:23:16] Speaker 1: that the universe exists. We know the universe exists. Can
[2:23:20] Speaker 1: we agree on that?
[2:23:21] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[2:23:22] Speaker 1: Okay, and can we have something from nothing? No, Okay,
[2:23:27] Speaker 1: that means there was never nothing. The universe must be.
[2:23:30] Speaker 3: Eternal or there was a god that created it.
[2:23:34] Speaker 1: You would have to demonstrate the existence of the god first. See,
[2:23:40] Speaker 1: if you have an eternal universe, it doesn't actually need
[2:23:42] Speaker 1: a creator. That's the first problem.
[2:23:44] Speaker 3: So you would have That's exactly why the whole point
[2:23:47] Speaker 3: of science is disproved the existence literally not But you guys,
[2:23:52] Speaker 3: you guys have gone through so many different phases of
[2:23:54] Speaker 3: how the world came to be, and every one of
[2:23:56] Speaker 3: them removes the possibility of the existence of a god.
[2:23:59] Speaker 3: And now you're just taking away the internals and stuff.
[2:24:02] Speaker 3: But you're literally just changing the wording.
[2:24:04] Speaker 1: Cosmology does not get rid of the does not get
[2:24:08] Speaker 1: rid of the idea of god. It just states that
[2:24:11] Speaker 1: there's not necessarily a need for the god.
[2:24:14] Speaker 3: Okay, that's that's the same point.
[2:24:17] Speaker 1: Sure, So I would ask again, you know, what is
[2:24:20] Speaker 1: the evidence of the actual God being in charge of it?
[2:24:23] Speaker 1: Because it could be that big Like, let's just imagine
[2:24:27] Speaker 1: that big bank cosmology is wrong, that there actually wasn't
[2:24:31] Speaker 1: a big bang. Still does it mean or God was
[2:24:32] Speaker 1: responsible for it? And it still doesn't mean that the
[2:24:34] Speaker 1: universe once didn't exist.
[2:24:37] Speaker 3: Yeah, I would just have to say that all of
[2:24:39] Speaker 3: the I think it would be very unlikely. As I
[2:24:43] Speaker 3: mentioned before, for I think it was like thirty. If
[2:24:46] Speaker 3: thirty plus the universal constants change, I just don't think
[2:24:49] Speaker 3: all of that stuff would line up with a random explosion.
[2:24:52] Speaker 3: I think that more shows the existence.
[2:24:54] Speaker 1: That's not the big Bang. The Big Bang's not a
[2:24:55] Speaker 1: random explosion.
[2:24:58] Speaker 3: I mean it kind of is a random explosion, kind
[2:25:00] Speaker 3: of not so it's just expanding with order.
[2:25:05] Speaker 1: That's why it's called the expansion, not the big Bang.
[2:25:07] Speaker 1: Big bang is a pejorative term.
[2:25:11] Speaker 3: Okay, And then how do you know that it expanded
[2:25:13] Speaker 3: with purpose?
[2:25:14] Speaker 1: It doesn't. That's why I'm trying to tell you that
[2:25:16] Speaker 1: the universe has no purpose. You're trying to put purpose.
[2:25:19] Speaker 3: On the universe. So it was a random explosion.
[2:25:22] Speaker 1: It wasn't an explosion, but it was random.
[2:25:23] Speaker 3: Yes, that's what I just said. And you said it
[2:25:27] Speaker 3: wasn't random.
[2:25:27] Speaker 1: No, rung Again, I said, it doesn't have a purpose.
[2:25:31] Speaker 3: So it was a random expansion.
[2:25:32] Speaker 1: It was a random expansion. You nailed it there, you go.
[2:25:36] Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm just saying that I don't think a
[2:25:38] Speaker 3: random expansion. And also I don't think that a single
[2:25:41] Speaker 3: Selle organism could I don't know what the word correlate
[2:25:47] Speaker 3: to or keep progressing to ross union.
[2:25:50] Speaker 1: But Trolie, all you're doing is presenting God of the
[2:25:53] Speaker 1: gaps arguments. You're just saying I don't understand science there
[2:25:56] Speaker 1: for God. None of that leads to your God being real.
[2:26:01] Speaker 3: So I'm telling you you.
[2:26:04] Speaker 1: Can disprove about Genesis, you can disprove the Big Bang.
[2:26:07] Speaker 1: None of it is proof for your God.
[2:26:11] Speaker 3: You don't think that the order and structure that we
[2:26:12] Speaker 3: see within the universe is proof of the creator.
[2:26:15] Speaker 1: No, ninety nine point nine percent of the universe is
[2:26:17] Speaker 1: pure chaos. Even the Earth is mostly chaos. For example,
[2:26:21] Speaker 1: if you believe a creator created the planet for us
[2:26:24] Speaker 1: to live on, then he is like a vindictive asshole
[2:26:26] Speaker 1: because one hundred thousand people a year die from natural disasters.
[2:26:31] Speaker 1: Why would God create a planet that just randomly executes
[2:26:34] Speaker 1: people via natural disaster? If he went through all this
[2:26:37] Speaker 1: trouble of fine tuning all these little constants.
[2:26:42] Speaker 3: Why I don't think that natural disasters were part of
[2:26:45] Speaker 3: his original plane? What they happened once in broke up?
[2:26:47] Speaker 1: Did God design the Earth?
[2:26:50] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[2:26:50] Speaker 1: Did God design the earth that would be capable of
[2:26:53] Speaker 1: natural disasters?
[2:26:55] Speaker 3: Yeah, but he also created us as humans, knowing that
[2:26:57] Speaker 3: we would be capable of mass destruction.
[2:26:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, but we didn't create natural disasters God did. God
[2:27:05] Speaker 1: created the earth, not us. He's the designer. You can't
[2:27:09] Speaker 1: blame Adam and Eve for natural disasters. There's no reason
[2:27:12] Speaker 1: for God to make natural disasters, whether or not they
[2:27:14] Speaker 1: sinned or not.
[2:27:16] Speaker 3: I think that's well, yeah, well, if you don't believe
[2:27:19] Speaker 3: in natural disasters, and it kind of just you want
[2:27:21] Speaker 3: to believe in the whole sin thing to begin with.
[2:27:23] Speaker 1: No, no, no, listen, what I'm saying, God is the
[2:27:26] Speaker 1: one responsible for natural disasters. Natural disasters, in your worldview,
[2:27:31] Speaker 1: have to account in God's reckoning somehow.
[2:27:34] Speaker 2: Right.
[2:27:35] Speaker 1: In my worldview, natural disasters are just a product of
[2:27:37] Speaker 1: a chaotic universe. It's much more in line with my viewpoint.
[2:27:44] Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I guess, but I just kind of
[2:27:46] Speaker 3: think natural disasters are just I know that you're saying
[2:27:51] Speaker 3: that God created the world, so through the creation of
[2:27:54] Speaker 3: the world, if he knew that there were going to
[2:27:55] Speaker 3: be natural disasters, he created natural disasters. But I think
[2:27:58] Speaker 3: you could say that about anything in the universe. That's bad.
[2:28:00] Speaker 1: But we're talking about the earth. Did he create the
[2:28:03] Speaker 1: earth with intention?
[2:28:05] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[2:28:06] Speaker 1: Okay, was the intention to execute one hundred thousand people
[2:28:09] Speaker 1: a year through natural disasters?
[2:28:14] Speaker 3: I mean, if that's the way it is, then possibly.
[2:28:16] Speaker 1: Okay. So then now, in order to explain the chaos
[2:28:20] Speaker 1: that we actually do find on the earth, not the order,
[2:28:23] Speaker 1: you have to posit a god that purposely executes one
[2:28:27] Speaker 1: hundred thousand people a year at random. And do you
[2:28:29] Speaker 1: think that's a good a good god?
[2:28:34] Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's I think it's a good God.
[2:28:37] Speaker 1: So you think it's good for a random execution of
[2:28:40] Speaker 1: one hundred thousand people a year, that's a good thing.
[2:28:44] Speaker 3: No, I don't also think it's a good thing when
[2:28:46] Speaker 3: terrorists and people like that kill people.
[2:28:48] Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk about terrorism and talk about natural disasters.
[2:28:53] Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's literally correlated.
[2:28:55] Speaker 1: It's not correlated whatsoever. Terrorism is human free will. Natural
[2:28:59] Speaker 1: disasters are not. Natural disasters are caused by God.
[2:29:03] Speaker 3: But he created the world for us to sin in,
[2:29:05] Speaker 3: so what so that's a problem. That's the same thing.
[2:29:07] Speaker 3: But we're saying we're.
[2:29:09] Speaker 1: Talking about natural disasters, we're talking about human free will,
[2:29:12] Speaker 1: But it's it's the same concept he created a world
[2:29:14] Speaker 1: concept or our natural disasters sentient.
[2:29:18] Speaker 3: Okay, but listen, he created a world where natural.
[2:29:20] Speaker 1: Disasters have have free will?
[2:29:23] Speaker 3: No, they don't.
[2:29:23] Speaker 1: Okay, we're talking about objects that don't have free will.
[2:29:27] Speaker 1: We're talking about things that are part of the planet
[2:29:30] Speaker 1: that was designed by God. Did God know that natural
[2:29:34] Speaker 1: disasters would happen?
[2:29:39] Speaker 2: Yes, he did.
[2:29:40] Speaker 1: Did he have to create a world in which natural
[2:29:43] Speaker 1: disasters would happen?
[2:29:46] Speaker 3: Maybe this was the only word where free will could
[2:29:49] Speaker 3: also exist with natural disasters taking place.
[2:29:51] Speaker 2: No, I don't know.
[2:29:52] Speaker 1: Again, you're wrong, because there were no natural disasters before
[2:29:56] Speaker 1: Adam and Eve sinned, and there won't be natural disasters
[2:29:59] Speaker 1: in heaven because when the new Heaven and a new
[2:30:02] Speaker 1: Earth has arrived, there's gonna be no more tears, no
[2:30:04] Speaker 1: more suffering, no more pain, no more sorrow. If she
[2:30:06] Speaker 1: means natural disasters are inconsistent with that, So there can
[2:30:10] Speaker 1: be a world without natural disasters and human free will.
[2:30:19] Speaker 3: But once before they choose to use their free will
[2:30:22] Speaker 3: for bad That's why there wasn't natural disasters.
[2:30:25] Speaker 1: But we're not talking about free will. Though we're talking
[2:30:28] Speaker 1: about natural disasters. They don't have to exist they don't
[2:30:33] Speaker 1: need to exist.
[2:30:36] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, sure, they don't need to exist.
[2:30:38] Speaker 1: Okay, So then now the next thing is justifying why
[2:30:42] Speaker 1: they do exist, because natural disasters cause unnecessary suffering, and
[2:30:46] Speaker 1: an all good, all powerful, all knowing God shouldn't be
[2:30:50] Speaker 1: causing unnecessary suffering, whereas in my world view, the unnecessary
[2:30:56] Speaker 1: suffering is not unnecessary. It's just part of a chaotic verse.
[2:31:03] Speaker 3: Yeah, I can. I mean, you're you're like talking to
[2:31:05] Speaker 3: me like I'm not listening to what you're saying. I'm
[2:31:09] Speaker 3: telling you, there's got to be some correlation, like with
[2:31:12] Speaker 3: what I'm saying. I'm saying that every time I talk
[2:31:17] Speaker 3: you to say, sin is not the same thing as
[2:31:20] Speaker 3: natural disasters. I'm trying to tell you, Okay, but I'm
[2:31:22] Speaker 3: saying God created the world, right, yep. At first he
[2:31:26] Speaker 3: created the world perfect, and he knew that if he
[2:31:30] Speaker 3: brought humans into the world, these humans would cause mass destruction,
[2:31:35] Speaker 3: mass destruction, Okay, well, they would cause pain and suffering,
[2:31:39] Speaker 3: unnecessary suffering. So I'm saying that through this pain and
[2:31:44] Speaker 3: suffering and unnecessary suffering, that's what causes the catastrophs feast
[2:31:49] Speaker 3: to happen. First, your sins, disasters yes, I think our
[2:31:56] Speaker 3: original sins caused the natural disasters.
[2:31:58] Speaker 1: How what's the link?
[2:31:59] Speaker 5: What?
[2:31:59] Speaker 1: What's the link? Like when I when I like use
[2:32:02] Speaker 1: a curse word, does that automatically trigger a tsunami?
[2:32:07] Speaker 2: No?
[2:32:07] Speaker 3: I don't think so.
[2:32:08] Speaker 1: Okay, So is there could Could God have created a
[2:32:11] Speaker 1: world after Adam and Eve's sinned that included punishment for
[2:32:15] Speaker 1: Adam and Eve but excluded natural disasters?
[2:32:21] Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I think that would be impossible.
[2:32:23] Speaker 1: Right, because otherwise you'd have to say that he doesn't
[2:32:26] Speaker 1: have omnipotence. Okay, So God had the ability to create
[2:32:29] Speaker 1: a world without the natural disasters, he chose to create
[2:32:32] Speaker 1: a world with the natural disasters, which means you have
[2:32:36] Speaker 1: to find a good reason still for why he did that.
[2:32:39] Speaker 1: Why would God create natural disasters knowing it's going to
[2:32:43] Speaker 1: randomly execute people one hundred thousand a year.
[2:32:48] Speaker 3: I don't think there is a good answer for that.
[2:32:50] Speaker 1: Actually, there's not one. That's the honest answers. There's no
[2:32:53] Speaker 1: good answer for it in your worldview. And that's the
[2:32:59] Speaker 1: tip of the Charlie. You've also got childhood bone cancer
[2:33:02] Speaker 1: to deal with, You've got leukemia. Three million babies, you know,
[2:33:07] Speaker 1: die of starvation, every year because you know, certain parts
[2:33:10] Speaker 1: of the world are you can't actually support life properly.
[2:33:14] Speaker 1: There's lots of horrific things even outside of natural disasters.
[2:33:19] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why I was saying that, I think natural
[2:33:21] Speaker 3: disasters aren't really Like if if I'm okay with all
[2:33:25] Speaker 3: the other stuff happening in the world, I kind of
[2:33:27] Speaker 3: can just clarify or think that natural disasters are just
[2:33:30] Speaker 3: another part of that. So it's not like natural disasters
[2:33:33] Speaker 3: are going to be the thing that I think of them, like,
[2:33:35] Speaker 3: oh no, I'm not going to be a Christian anymore
[2:33:37] Speaker 3: because natural disasters take place.
[2:33:39] Speaker 1: Well, I think it's a defeater for your worldview, right,
[2:33:42] Speaker 1: because the only way to get out of the problem
[2:33:45] Speaker 1: of evil in your worldview is to say that not
[2:33:47] Speaker 1: the natural disasters are necessary for something.
[2:33:51] Speaker 3: I mean, they could be necessary for a greater good.
[2:33:53] Speaker 3: I don't know, though, what would the greater good be
[2:33:58] Speaker 3: through the natural disasters. I don't know. Communities could come together,
[2:34:02] Speaker 3: people could come together.
[2:34:04] Speaker 1: Could God accomplish that without natural disasters?
[2:34:08] Speaker 3: Yeah, but he doesn't choose to do that. Throughout the Bible,
[2:34:13] Speaker 3: we see God doing all sorts of stuff that I
[2:34:16] Speaker 3: want it necessarily deemed to be good, but he deemed
[2:34:19] Speaker 3: it to be good. He goes in and calls for
[2:34:24] Speaker 3: like the murder, the killing of people, and he could
[2:34:27] Speaker 3: have done that in many different ways, but he choose
[2:34:30] Speaker 3: to do that. And I think him adding in that, like,
[2:34:33] Speaker 3: why if God is being presented as a good God
[2:34:35] Speaker 3: throughout the Bible, why would the writers of the Bible
[2:34:38] Speaker 3: include stuff like that to make the good God seem bad?
[2:34:41] Speaker 3: That's why I also think it adds.
[2:34:43] Speaker 1: I don't think they did it to make them seem bad.
[2:34:45] Speaker 1: I think they're just being sloppy.
[2:34:47] Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. You think that throughout the
[2:34:50] Speaker 3: whole Bible they're saying, like someone's going to come and
[2:34:52] Speaker 3: fix all of our problems. There's a good God, and
[2:34:55] Speaker 3: then they randomly add in verses that say that God
[2:34:58] Speaker 3: is commanding the killing of these people. I think that
[2:35:01] Speaker 3: shows the like the sheer relevance of those verses because
[2:35:07] Speaker 3: like the reality of what was actually going on during
[2:35:09] Speaker 3: those times, because if they were just presenting God in
[2:35:11] Speaker 3: the Bible to be all good, all loving, that would
[2:35:14] Speaker 3: kind of take away from those verses.
[2:35:17] Speaker 1: Is God all good? I?
[2:35:19] Speaker 2: Yeah? He is?
[2:35:20] Speaker 1: Is he all loving?
[2:35:22] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[2:35:23] Speaker 1: Can you be all good and all loving while causing
[2:35:25] Speaker 1: unnecessary suffering.
[2:35:29] Speaker 3: Yes, I think so, because if he deems he's the
[2:35:32] Speaker 3: one that created us, so he can take life from
[2:35:34] Speaker 3: us whenever he wants.
[2:35:36] Speaker 1: Not even close to what I'm asking, I said, can
[2:35:39] Speaker 1: can you be all good and all loving while causing
[2:35:43] Speaker 1: unnecessary suffering? So, for example, like if I took my
[2:35:47] Speaker 1: son to get his polio vaccine and the doctor came
[2:35:50] Speaker 1: in and you know, grabbed him by the arm and
[2:35:53] Speaker 1: put the needle in him. The pinch of the needle
[2:35:55] Speaker 1: is necessary suffering. You have to have it to get
[2:35:58] Speaker 1: to the good part. But if the doctor walks in
[2:36:01] Speaker 1: and punches my son in the nose and then gives
[2:36:03] Speaker 1: them the shot, well, the doctors are jackass. The punch
[2:36:06] Speaker 1: in the nose is unnecessary. You can't be all good
[2:36:09] Speaker 1: while causing unnecessary suffering.
[2:36:13] Speaker 3: So, like natural disasters or just any extra suffering that
[2:36:16] Speaker 3: we experienced.
[2:36:17] Speaker 1: I would say, any suffering that is not necessary is
[2:36:21] Speaker 1: by definition the antithesis of good right, and God's okay
[2:36:27] Speaker 1: with it all the time. And you've already pointed out
[2:36:29] Speaker 1: that God's even okay with blood vengeance, like he makes
[2:36:32] Speaker 1: people suffer for crimes they never committed and Tewod Samuel
[2:36:35] Speaker 1: twenty one. God has seven random members of Saul's household
[2:36:41] Speaker 1: executed for the crime that Saul committed, and he even
[2:36:46] Speaker 1: makes the Israelite suffer for three years, the whole people group.
[2:36:49] Speaker 1: It says there was a famine in the days of
[2:36:51] Speaker 1: David for three years, year after year, and David inquired
[2:36:55] Speaker 1: of the Lord, and the Lord said, there is blood
[2:36:57] Speaker 1: guilt on Saul and on his house because he but
[2:37:00] Speaker 1: the gibe Knights to de death. So God is causing
[2:37:03] Speaker 1: all of the Israelites to suffer through a famine. The
[2:37:05] Speaker 1: probably a bunch of babies died all because Saul. When
[2:37:09] Speaker 1: Saul was king, he's not king anymore. He put the
[2:37:11] Speaker 1: death some of the Gibbe knights, and they were supposed
[2:37:13] Speaker 1: to protect the Gibbi knights, according to Joshua chapter nine.
[2:37:17] Speaker 1: And how does all this get fixed, Well, it gets
[2:37:19] Speaker 1: fixed because they hand over. Says, let seven of his
[2:37:23] Speaker 1: sons be handed over to us, and we will impale
[2:37:25] Speaker 1: them before the Lord at Gibeon, on the mountain of
[2:37:28] Speaker 1: the Lord. The king said, I will hand them over,
[2:37:31] Speaker 1: and then it happens they impale them on the mountain,
[2:37:34] Speaker 1: and it says they did all that the king commanded,
[2:37:38] Speaker 1: and after that God heeded the supplications of the land.
[2:37:41] Speaker 1: So God not only believes in blood vengeance, but he
[2:37:43] Speaker 1: believes in making innocent people suffer for blood vengeance.
[2:37:51] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that the Old Testament has some very
[2:37:54] Speaker 3: bad verses like that. Well, I don't know if I
[2:37:56] Speaker 3: can consider them bad. I think that God has purpose
[2:37:59] Speaker 3: in everything he does.
[2:38:00] Speaker 1: So what's the purpose in making innocent people suffer for
[2:38:03] Speaker 1: somebody else's blood vengeance?
[2:38:09] Speaker 3: I don't think anyone's innocent. So I think if if
[2:38:14] Speaker 3: you were created by God, he has authority to take
[2:38:17] Speaker 3: your life whenever you want. And I think that's okay.
[2:38:19] Speaker 1: So your God's not a god of justice, and your
[2:38:21] Speaker 1: God is just a matter. As long as you're the
[2:38:23] Speaker 1: most powerful thing, you can do anything you want.
[2:38:27] Speaker 3: And I don't think that's not what I said.
[2:38:30] Speaker 1: So just because you create something, you should be able
[2:38:32] Speaker 1: to do anything you want with it.
[2:38:34] Speaker 3: I mean, he's the god of the universe, so I
[2:38:36] Speaker 3: think he can do whatever he wants.
[2:38:37] Speaker 2: To his careerator.
[2:38:38] Speaker 1: So justice has no meaning in your religion then.
[2:38:40] Speaker 3: I mean, I think that he acts justice, but I
[2:38:43] Speaker 3: don't know if what is justice, like moral obligation like morals.
[2:38:51] Speaker 1: Well, justice means like the person being punished is getting
[2:38:54] Speaker 1: what they deserve or that like if you didn't do
[2:38:58] Speaker 1: the crime, you don't get punished for it. So if
[2:39:00] Speaker 1: I robbed a store and my brother had to go
[2:39:03] Speaker 1: to jail for me, we would call that unjust right, right,
[2:39:08] Speaker 1: But what we find is God's perfectly okay practicing injustice
[2:39:11] Speaker 1: in the Bible, like all over the place. For example,
[2:39:15] Speaker 1: in Second Samuel chapter twelve, I remember what happened to
[2:39:18] Speaker 1: David with the whole Bathsheba incident. Do you remember the
[2:39:21] Speaker 1: punishment that was given?
[2:39:28] Speaker 3: I don't where was it.
[2:39:29] Speaker 1: Well, the baby gets sick and dies for seven days
[2:39:33] Speaker 1: it's sick, and then it dies. And then God says,
[2:39:36] Speaker 1: I'm going to raise up trouble from within your own house,
[2:39:39] Speaker 1: and I'm going to take your wives before your very eyes,
[2:39:41] Speaker 1: and I'm going to have your companion or your neighbors
[2:39:44] Speaker 1: sleep with them in broad daylight. And that happens. If
[2:39:46] Speaker 1: you keep reading the story. Absalom runs a coup against
[2:39:49] Speaker 1: his own father's household, chases David out of the palace.
[2:39:53] Speaker 1: He's on the run, He's afraid for his life. He
[2:39:55] Speaker 1: goes into the palace, takes ten of David's concubines and
[2:39:59] Speaker 1: pitches a ten on the roofs of the palace and
[2:40:01] Speaker 1: sleeps with them in broad daylight as a show of
[2:40:03] Speaker 1: force over his father to declare to the kingdom that
[2:40:08] Speaker 1: I'm now in charge. And that's the punishment for Bathsheba,
[2:40:12] Speaker 1: the Bathsheba incident. But those ten women didn't do anything wrong.
[2:40:17] Speaker 3: Do you think it's possible that God could just be
[2:40:19] Speaker 3: explaining what's going to happen in the future.
[2:40:21] Speaker 1: He said, I'm causing it to happen.
[2:40:26] Speaker 3: Maybe when he speaks what's going to happen in the future,
[2:40:28] Speaker 3: he's causing it to happen.
[2:40:29] Speaker 1: I agree, Yeah, he says, Thus said the Lord, I
[2:40:31] Speaker 1: will raise up trouble against you from within your own house.
[2:40:34] Speaker 1: I will take your wives before your eyes and give
[2:40:36] Speaker 1: them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives
[2:40:38] Speaker 1: in broad daylight. For you did it secretly, but I
[2:40:41] Speaker 1: will do this thing before all Israel in broad daylight.
[2:40:44] Speaker 1: So the punishment that is handed down is God is
[2:40:47] Speaker 1: going to raise up Absalom from within his own house,
[2:40:50] Speaker 1: and Absalom is going to forcibly sleep with ten of
[2:40:54] Speaker 1: David's wives. What verse is that Second Samuel twelve, verse
[2:41:00] Speaker 1: eleven and twelve.
[2:41:03] Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't know about that verse. But I don't
[2:41:08] Speaker 3: think it's good. But because even if the woman I'm
[2:41:13] Speaker 3: not saying it would he ben be justified if they
[2:41:16] Speaker 3: were doing stuff wrong. But even if they were doing
[2:41:18] Speaker 3: stuff wrong, I don't think that would be a just punishment.
[2:41:20] Speaker 2: Right, So.
[2:41:25] Speaker 3: Yeah, I write that verse down. Just look into it,
[2:41:28] Speaker 3: but I don't think I'm going to find anything.
[2:41:30] Speaker 1: You're not going to find much. Most commentaries want to
[2:41:32] Speaker 1: skip over it.
[2:41:33] Speaker 2: Now.
[2:41:34] Speaker 1: The biggest problem for Christianity is not just the Old Testament.
[2:41:37] Speaker 1: It's that the New Testament continually tells lies. So I
[2:41:42] Speaker 1: tried to get through Jeremiah thirty one earlier. I've still
[2:41:44] Speaker 1: got it pulled up on one of my tabs, so
[2:41:46] Speaker 1: I'll throw it up on the screen. Jeremiah thirty one
[2:41:50] Speaker 1: says something very interesting. And if you know anything about Jeremiah,
[2:41:53] Speaker 1: he's writing about the Babylonian exile. He says that your
[2:41:56] Speaker 1: children are going to be taken for seventy years and
[2:41:59] Speaker 1: exiled and Babylon and then there's a prophecy about the
[2:42:02] Speaker 1: restoration and so on and so forth. But in verse
[2:42:04] Speaker 1: fifteen and sixteen, it says, thus, say at the Lord,
[2:42:07] Speaker 1: a voice is heard in rama, lamentation, excuse me, lamentation,
[2:42:11] Speaker 1: and bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for her children, and
[2:42:14] Speaker 1: she refuses to be comforted for her children because they
[2:42:17] Speaker 1: are no more. Thus say at the Lord, keep your
[2:42:19] Speaker 1: voice from weeping and your eyes from tears, for there
[2:42:22] Speaker 1: is a reward for your work, says the Lord. They
[2:42:23] Speaker 1: shall come back from the land of the enemy. So
[2:42:26] Speaker 1: this is clearly about the Israelites coming back from the
[2:42:29] Speaker 1: land of Babylon, right. I think the context is pretty clear,
[2:42:34] Speaker 1: and if actually you can read the whole chapter, he
[2:42:36] Speaker 1: talks more about it, about what's going to happen. You
[2:42:39] Speaker 1: know when they come back seventeen there's hope for your future,
[2:42:44] Speaker 1: says the Lord. Your children shall come back to their
[2:42:46] Speaker 1: own country. Indeed, I heard Ephrie, I'm pleading. You disciplined me,
[2:42:50] Speaker 1: and I took the discipline, and so on and so forth.
[2:42:53] Speaker 1: So the problem we have is this passage I think
[2:42:57] Speaker 1: is pretty clear that it's about the activity. But if
[2:43:00] Speaker 1: you just go to Matthew chapter two, Matthea has something
[2:43:03] Speaker 1: really interesting to say. When the babies are executed in Bethlehem,
[2:43:08] Speaker 1: it says, then what had been spoken through the prophet
[2:43:10] Speaker 1: Jeremiah was fulfilled. The voice was heard in Rama wailing
[2:43:14] Speaker 1: in loud lamentation, Rachel weeping for her children. She refused
[2:43:18] Speaker 1: to be consoled because they are no more. But the
[2:43:20] Speaker 1: prophecy of Jeremiah was about the babylon captivity, not about
[2:43:23] Speaker 1: a bunch of babies being executed in Bethlehem many hundreds
[2:43:27] Speaker 1: of years later.
[2:43:30] Speaker 3: Now I have to say, this is the kind of
[2:43:32] Speaker 3: stuff that you do with that. I just don't think
[2:43:34] Speaker 3: is that important if you're like looking into the Bible
[2:43:37] Speaker 3: this much and you're critiquing little things like this. Like
[2:43:41] Speaker 3: I see people like critiquing things in the Bible and
[2:43:44] Speaker 3: it's like, oh, he said that he was going to
[2:43:46] Speaker 3: leave him out, but in staid it's like something like different. No, no, no,
[2:43:50] Speaker 3: it's not that important.
[2:43:51] Speaker 1: This is very important. These are the prophecies that, according
[2:43:56] Speaker 1: to the New Testament, are the validation for Jesus being
[2:43:59] Speaker 1: the assay. But when we go back and read the prophecies,
[2:44:03] Speaker 1: it's clear in the original context they're not talking about
[2:44:05] Speaker 1: what the Gospel authors are saying that they're not talking about.
[2:44:08] Speaker 1: Jeremiah's not talking about a bunch of babies getting executed
[2:44:11] Speaker 1: in Bethlehem. Six hundred years later, he's talking about the
[2:44:15] Speaker 1: children or the people being carried away in Babylonian captivity,
[2:44:20] Speaker 1: that they're going to come back. They're going to return
[2:44:22] Speaker 1: from their land. That's what the prophecy's about. So there's
[2:44:25] Speaker 1: no reason to say that this was about a bunch
[2:44:27] Speaker 1: of babies being killed in Bethlehem.
[2:44:31] Speaker 3: Okay, that is good finding, I think, but I just again,
[2:44:36] Speaker 3: I just don't understand, like if you're searching this hard
[2:44:39] Speaker 3: in the Bible for little mistakes like this, it's not
[2:44:41] Speaker 3: a mistake, it's a lie. Okay, But if it's a lie,
[2:44:46] Speaker 3: then like I don't know why they would even purposely
[2:44:51] Speaker 3: put it in. If it's like blatantly lying. I think
[2:44:54] Speaker 3: it was a mistake because if it was a lie,
[2:44:56] Speaker 3: then why would they even put it in to begin with.
[2:44:58] Speaker 1: It's not because they thought that they could con people.
[2:45:02] Speaker 1: They thought that they can quote things out of context
[2:45:05] Speaker 1: and people would just believe it because they don't know
[2:45:07] Speaker 1: any better, and a lot of them didn't know better. Taylor,
[2:45:11] Speaker 1: Tom thank you for the subby big w fifteen fifteen
[2:45:14] Speaker 1: month subscription and Amy nine month in Savage seven months,
[2:45:18] Speaker 1: big w I appreciate that. And also bad religion. Thank
[2:45:22] Speaker 1: you so much for the face paint. I appreciate that too.
[2:45:24] Speaker 3: Can you show me what you think your best lie
[2:45:27] Speaker 3: is in the Bible. I'm just wanting to know how
[2:45:29] Speaker 3: like important it is to the overall meaning of the Bible.
[2:45:32] Speaker 3: I want to see the biggest lie that is presented
[2:45:34] Speaker 3: in the Bible.
[2:45:35] Speaker 1: Well, I think they're all important. So for example, I.
[2:45:40] Speaker 3: Don't want I don't want to hear like a little
[2:45:41] Speaker 3: small one though. I want to hear like the best,
[2:45:43] Speaker 3: the best, the biggest lie, the biggest lie. Yeah, in
[2:45:46] Speaker 3: the Bible that like contradicts the whole Bible in and
[2:45:49] Speaker 3: of itself.
[2:45:51] Speaker 2: The fact that.
[2:45:51] Speaker 1: Jesus didn't fulfill any prophecy, not even one of them.
[2:45:57] Speaker 3: Can can you show me like what you think.
[2:46:00] Speaker 1: I'm showing you right now. I'm going through them one
[2:46:01] Speaker 1: by one. I'm going to show you that not a
[2:46:03] Speaker 1: single prophecy in the Gospels was ever fulfilled by Jesus.
[2:46:08] Speaker 3: I just again, I do not think that's true their
[2:46:10] Speaker 3: biblical scholars. I'm not a biblical scholar at all. I
[2:46:15] Speaker 3: don't do this, But there are biblical scholars who put
[2:46:18] Speaker 3: their whole life's work to proving Christianity.
[2:46:21] Speaker 1: I know you're wrong.
[2:46:24] Speaker 3: You're saying that all of them are wrong. Even people
[2:46:26] Speaker 3: who are in Christians say that some of the prophecies
[2:46:28] Speaker 3: in the Bible were fulfilled, and it's impressive.
[2:46:30] Speaker 2: Not one of them.
[2:46:32] Speaker 3: Okay, but who are you to say that the propheties
[2:46:35] Speaker 3: are wrong going against generations of people who have said
[2:46:38] Speaker 3: that they are true and put their whole lives into it.
[2:46:41] Speaker 3: Is this what you do all the time?
[2:46:43] Speaker 1: Is what I do all the time. I've got a
[2:46:44] Speaker 1: bachelor's degree and a master's degree in biblical studies. And
[2:46:47] Speaker 1: you're the one that is saying that generations of people
[2:46:51] Speaker 1: are wrong because the Jewish people rejected this fallacious application
[2:46:55] Speaker 1: of prophecy, and they rejected it rightly because it's a
[2:47:00] Speaker 1: galacious way of reading prophecy. So you can't just say
[2:47:03] Speaker 1: that like, well, a lot of people believe it, therefore
[2:47:06] Speaker 1: it's true, because I would just appeal to the Jewish people.
[2:47:11] Speaker 3: So okay, I'm not saying just because people say that
[2:47:13] Speaker 3: it's true, it's true. I'm just saying that just because
[2:47:16] Speaker 3: you're saying that no prophecies were not not one prophecy
[2:47:20] Speaker 3: was fulfilled does not mean that no prophecies were fulfilled.
[2:47:22] Speaker 1: Can you find me one?
[2:47:26] Speaker 3: I don't really know much prophecies off the top of
[2:47:28] Speaker 3: my head.
[2:47:28] Speaker 1: How could you possibly know that Jesus fulfilled any prophecies
[2:47:31] Speaker 1: if you don't know one of them? I told you,
[2:47:32] Speaker 1: if I can go through with.
[2:47:33] Speaker 3: You, I know that one of them was he would
[2:47:36] Speaker 3: be born of a.
[2:47:37] Speaker 1: Virgin Okay, that comes from that chapter seven.
[2:47:41] Speaker 3: That is where he was going to be born, and
[2:47:45] Speaker 3: he would come, Yeah, he would come from the land
[2:47:48] Speaker 3: of Bethlehem. Would also be one that said that, Shoot,
[2:47:54] Speaker 3: I'm forgetting what they were about.
[2:47:55] Speaker 1: That no bones in his body would be broken a prophecy.
[2:47:58] Speaker 1: There's no prophecy about that. Okay, that's a misapplication of
[2:48:02] Speaker 1: Exus chapter twelve. When there's the instructions for the passover meal.
[2:48:08] Speaker 1: That's not a prophecy.
[2:48:12] Speaker 3: Then why do so many people reforce it or as prophecy.
[2:48:15] Speaker 1: Because they're ignorant. They have never read the Old Testament.
[2:48:17] Speaker 1: They just believe that when John said that in chapter
[2:48:20] Speaker 1: nineteen that it was true. You've never read the Old Testament.
[2:48:28] Speaker 1: Why do you think other Christians are reading it?
[2:48:30] Speaker 3: I've read the Old Testament?
[2:48:31] Speaker 1: Well, I don't think you have, because Isaiah seven you
[2:48:34] Speaker 1: said was about a virgin birth, and it's not. Isaiah
[2:48:37] Speaker 1: seven is about the war that's going on between the
[2:48:39] Speaker 1: Northern Alliance between Ephrium and Arim, and how they're coming
[2:48:44] Speaker 1: to attack Judea specifically under the leadership of King a Has,
[2:48:49] Speaker 1: and God sends the prophet Isaiah to King a Has
[2:48:52] Speaker 1: three different times to tell them that your kingdom is
[2:48:56] Speaker 1: not going to fall. In fact, you're going to be protected,
[2:48:59] Speaker 1: but need to have faith that I'm going to protect you.
[2:49:02] Speaker 1: At the end of the very first prophecy, it says,
[2:49:05] Speaker 1: if you do not stand firm in your faith, you
[2:49:07] Speaker 1: will not stand at all. So the point of Isaiah
[2:49:10] Speaker 1: seven is for the people of Israel to stand firm
[2:49:14] Speaker 1: during this particular war, which is why we read in
[2:49:17] Speaker 1: chapter seven, verse ten again the Lord spoke to AHAs, saying,
[2:49:22] Speaker 1: ask a sign of the Lord your God. Let it
[2:49:24] Speaker 1: be as deep as shield or as high as heaven.
[2:49:26] Speaker 1: But a Has said, I will not ask, and I
[2:49:28] Speaker 1: will not put the Lord to the test. Then isaiahs said, here, then,
[2:49:32] Speaker 1: a house of David, is it too little for you
[2:49:33] Speaker 1: to weary morals that you weary? My God also Therefore
[2:49:37] Speaker 1: the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the
[2:49:40] Speaker 1: young woman is with child and shall bear a son,
[2:49:43] Speaker 1: and shall name him Emmanuel. He shall eat kurds and
[2:49:46] Speaker 1: honey by the time he knows how to refuse the
[2:49:48] Speaker 1: evil and choose the good. For before the child knows
[2:49:51] Speaker 1: how to choose the good, I'm sorry, refuse the evil
[2:49:54] Speaker 1: and choose the good, the land before whose two kings
[2:49:57] Speaker 1: you are in dread will be deserted. So the prophecy
[2:50:00] Speaker 1: is about a child who's already been conceived, and before
[2:50:03] Speaker 1: that child knows right from wrong, the two kings that
[2:50:07] Speaker 1: are attacking it has are going to be wasted.
[2:50:11] Speaker 2: Song.
[2:50:17] Speaker 3: So they just happened to name Jesus the same thing.
[2:50:21] Speaker 1: They didn't name him. There's not a single instance in
[2:50:24] Speaker 1: the New Testament or anyone ever called him Emmanuel.
[2:50:29] Speaker 3: I think that it's something in Matthew. Doesn't they say
[2:50:33] Speaker 3: that they will call him a Manuel.
[2:50:34] Speaker 1: It says they will call him Emmanuel, and then not
[2:50:37] Speaker 1: a single person ever did.
[2:50:40] Speaker 3: But I'm saying that this verse right here is saying
[2:50:42] Speaker 3: they shall call him Emanuel, and doesn't it doesn't say that, Matthew,
[2:50:46] Speaker 3: it says it.
[2:50:47] Speaker 1: Again, you're misquoting it, so Matthew changes the wording. By
[2:50:51] Speaker 1: the way, the wording doesn't say that they shall call
[2:50:54] Speaker 1: him Emmanuel. It says that he is going to be named.
[2:51:00] Speaker 1: It says shall be named, and specifically, I think it
[2:51:03] Speaker 1: was in the feminine in the original Hebrew. Have to
[2:51:06] Speaker 1: go back and tell you. But it seems to be
[2:51:08] Speaker 1: that the mother is the one that's declaring, you know,
[2:51:12] Speaker 1: the title of Emmanuel. But the Emmanuel title is not
[2:51:16] Speaker 1: necessarily the name of the child, just like it's not
[2:51:19] Speaker 1: the name of Jesus. It's just a prophetic title that
[2:51:22] Speaker 1: gets used again in the very next chapter. In the
[2:51:25] Speaker 1: very next chapter, when the prophecy actually comes true, the
[2:51:29] Speaker 1: prophet himself cries out twice, oh Emanuel, as as the
[2:51:33] Speaker 1: prophecy's unfolding.
[2:51:35] Speaker 3: Oh wait, So I think I'm confused because I thought
[2:51:37] Speaker 3: that Matthew.
[2:51:39] Speaker 1: Hold on, let me look it up, and in Matthew
[2:51:43] Speaker 1: like one twenty eight.
[2:51:44] Speaker 3: I think, okay, yeah, so it says Matthew one twenty two.
[2:51:48] Speaker 3: That's twenty three niv All. This took place to fulfill
[2:51:50] Speaker 3: what the Lord I said through his prophets. The vision
[2:51:52] Speaker 3: will conceive and give birth to a son, and they
[2:51:54] Speaker 3: will call him in the NNU. Well, yep, so you're
[2:51:57] Speaker 3: telling me that Matthew is saying that the vision will conceive,
[2:52:00] Speaker 3: which is exactly what Isaiah is saying.
[2:52:02] Speaker 1: That's not what Isaiah said. Isaiah said, Look, the young
[2:52:06] Speaker 1: woman is with child, is already pregnant.
[2:52:12] Speaker 3: Did not say anything about a virgin, didn't.
[2:52:14] Speaker 1: Say anything about a virgin.
[2:52:22] Speaker 3: Very too soon. Diff for Lord, Isaiah seven fourteen does
[2:52:27] Speaker 3: say virgin, and because it's because it's super imposing the
[2:52:29] Speaker 3: New Testament Greek over top of it.
[2:52:32] Speaker 1: The Hebrew doesn't say anything about a virgin. It says
[2:52:34] Speaker 1: that she is a ha almah, which means a young woman,
[2:52:38] Speaker 1: and it describes her with the Hebrew word hurrah, which
[2:52:41] Speaker 1: means an adjective. It means to be pregnant, So it's
[2:52:44] Speaker 1: a pregnant young woman.
[2:52:47] Speaker 3: So they just added virgin.
[2:52:50] Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, it's important to remember that they couldn't read Hebrew.
[2:52:54] Speaker 1: Matthew couldn't read Hebrew. He's quoting from a Greek translation
[2:52:57] Speaker 1: of the Old Testament, and he doesn't even know Greek
[2:52:59] Speaker 1: all that way. Well, because at the time Isaiah was
[2:53:01] Speaker 1: translated into Greek, the Greek word parthenos didn't always refer
[2:53:07] Speaker 1: to someone who never had sex. It could refer to
[2:53:09] Speaker 1: a married woman. In fact, in the writings of Homer,
[2:53:12] Speaker 1: and even in Genesis of the Greek Sceptu Agent, we
[2:53:15] Speaker 1: see instances where it refers to somebody who's already had sex.
[2:53:19] Speaker 1: Matthew didn't know that. Matthew read the Greek Sceptu Agent
[2:53:22] Speaker 1: and said, oh, it must be non someone who never
[2:53:25] Speaker 1: had sex before. And that's what he wrote into his narrative.
[2:53:28] Speaker 1: But he doesn't know Greek or Hebrew.
[2:53:31] Speaker 3: So the original Hebrew for Isaiah seven fourteen, I mean
[2:53:35] Speaker 3: Greek verse seven fourteen. It was just a young woman,
[2:53:41] Speaker 3: a pregnant young.
[2:53:42] Speaker 1: Woman, just a young woman.
[2:53:43] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[2:53:44] Speaker 1: And the prophecy is to the king, right says therefore,
[2:53:48] Speaker 1: the Lord himself will give you a sign. He's talking
[2:53:51] Speaker 1: to King a Has. The sign is for King a Has,
[2:53:55] Speaker 1: and the sign is that there's a young child and
[2:53:58] Speaker 1: before that trial knows how to know good from bad
[2:54:03] Speaker 1: from you, know good from evil.
[2:54:05] Speaker 3: The two literally like representing Jesus as well, though.
[2:54:07] Speaker 1: So literally not. It says, before the child knows how
[2:54:10] Speaker 1: to refuse evil and choose good, the land before you,
[2:54:14] Speaker 1: whose two kings you are in dread, will be deserted.
[2:54:17] Speaker 1: The prophecy is saying that before this child is old
[2:54:20] Speaker 1: enough to know right from wrong, the two kings that
[2:54:23] Speaker 1: are attacking you are going to be wiped out. And
[2:54:27] Speaker 1: this is a sign to you that I am with you.
[2:54:34] Speaker 3: So then why do you other Bible scholars deem this
[2:54:37] Speaker 3: to be a correct prophecy?
[2:54:38] Speaker 1: They don't.
[2:54:41] Speaker 3: They don't, None of them do.
[2:54:43] Speaker 1: They don't. I don't know any reputable Bible scholars that
[2:54:46] Speaker 1: think that Isaiah fourteen seven fourteen is actually a prophecy
[2:54:50] Speaker 1: about Jesus. I think the closest thing you can get
[2:54:53] Speaker 1: to Cyrus Gordon at some point tried to make a
[2:54:57] Speaker 1: claim on it, but it was pretty weak. But like,
[2:55:01] Speaker 1: no serious Bible scholars thinks that Isaiah fourteen in the
[2:55:03] Speaker 1: original context we're talking about Jesus. Most Bible scholars understand
[2:55:08] Speaker 1: that this is like a like a typology. But typologies,
[2:55:11] Speaker 1: I think are nonsense.
[2:55:15] Speaker 3: So what do most Bible scholars? What prophets or prophecies
[2:55:21] Speaker 3: do they deem to be correct?
[2:55:23] Speaker 1: None of them?
[2:55:24] Speaker 3: If you actually read like a wait, wait, you think
[2:55:27] Speaker 3: that no Bible you think that Bible people scholars, they
[2:55:31] Speaker 3: don't think that any of the prophecies are correct in
[2:55:33] Speaker 3: the Bible.
[2:55:33] Speaker 1: I'm saying the Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah. If
[2:55:37] Speaker 1: you read an actual Old Testament scholar, they know that
[2:55:40] Speaker 1: not a single one of them is talking about Jesus.
[2:55:43] Speaker 3: That is not true, because it's true. My professor at
[2:55:48] Speaker 3: my old college I went to was a Bible professor.
[2:55:53] Speaker 1: Was the Old Testament professor or New Testament professor?
[2:55:55] Speaker 3: Old Testament?
[2:55:57] Speaker 1: Okay? And what did he say about the prophecies? Did
[2:55:59] Speaker 1: he tell you that there were that there were secondary fulfillment,
[2:56:02] Speaker 1: some typologies, or did he tell you that they were
[2:56:04] Speaker 1: fulfilled in the original context?
[2:56:07] Speaker 3: Well, he was a world religion professor and he wasn't.
[2:56:09] Speaker 1: Able to Okay, So he wasn't an Old Testament scholar.
[2:56:12] Speaker 2: Was he?
[2:56:12] Speaker 3: But he believed in the in the prophecies of the Bilby.
[2:56:15] Speaker 1: But he wasn't an Old Testament scholar.
[2:56:19] Speaker 3: I mean that was his specialty, was Old Testaments.
[2:56:21] Speaker 1: Certainly couldn't have been his specialty if he's teaching world religion,
[2:56:27] Speaker 1: Well that's what it was. I don't know, certainly couldn't
[2:56:31] Speaker 1: have been. In fact, I bet we could look up
[2:56:35] Speaker 1: his credentials right now. What was his name?
[2:56:37] Speaker 3: Hold On, let me go to my past classes. I
[2:56:44] Speaker 3: don't even know if I know my walk him back.
[2:56:46] Speaker 3: I'm sure there's also community college, so he might not
[2:56:50] Speaker 3: be makes a lot of sense because it was in
[2:56:53] Speaker 3: high school. MM. Selected user account does not exist in
[2:57:09] Speaker 3: tenants Saint Petersberg College. It cannot access the application. M.
[2:57:19] Speaker 3: The account needs to be added as the external user
[2:57:22] Speaker 3: in the tenant. First. Yeah, I don't think this is
[2:57:25] Speaker 3: gonna work.
[2:57:26] Speaker 1: Saint Petersburg College, is what you said? Yeah, it was
[2:57:30] Speaker 1: World Religions with Mark Unger.
[2:57:34] Speaker 3: No, I think it was a woman. Her name was like.
[2:57:39] Speaker 2: It was like a.
[2:57:42] Speaker 3: Ethnic last name, like hard.
[2:57:44] Speaker 1: To pronounced an ethnic last name.
[2:57:46] Speaker 2: What is that?
[2:57:47] Speaker 1: What's an ethnic last name?
[2:57:50] Speaker 3: You don't know what ethnic last names are.
[2:57:52] Speaker 1: There is a an academic department chair. It looks like
[2:57:57] Speaker 1: doctor Barbara Hubbard. No, it was not Hubbard. Saint Peterburg College.
[2:58:06] Speaker 1: Is this in Florida?
[2:58:08] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[2:58:09] Speaker 3: There should only be like four total professors, so just
[2:58:12] Speaker 3: do the one that.
[2:58:14] Speaker 2: And where the college.
[2:58:16] Speaker 3: It's like it's for high schoolers mostly, Well it's not
[2:58:21] Speaker 3: just for high schools.
[2:58:23] Speaker 1: I mean, listen, they've got a list of faculty and staff.
[2:58:26] Speaker 1: I mean we can easily just look at the faculty directory.
[2:58:31] Speaker 3: I also want to note you that I the professors
[2:58:36] Speaker 3: at my college. Now, I've discussed with them the possible
[2:58:40] Speaker 3: existence of a God, and I would say that the
[2:58:42] Speaker 3: well majority of them deemed the possibility of the existence
[2:58:45] Speaker 3: of a God. And a lot of them are Jewish,
[2:58:48] Speaker 3: and a lot of them are Christian, a lot of
[2:58:50] Speaker 3: them are Atheists, but even or agnostic, and even the
[2:58:54] Speaker 3: agnostic people like all of these professors deem the existence
[2:58:58] Speaker 3: of a God, distance of a God. And I'm saying
[2:59:01] Speaker 3: that these professors have crazy amounts of information, so for
[2:59:07] Speaker 3: you to do, I mean, these are like the most
[2:59:10] Speaker 3: renowned professors.
[2:59:11] Speaker 1: I would ask, like someone with a background in science,
[2:59:13] Speaker 1: because if you ask a professor of cosmology or professor
[2:59:17] Speaker 1: in the sciences, by and large, they don't believe in God.
[2:59:20] Speaker 1: But yeah, I would definitely expect somebody that's teaching world
[2:59:24] Speaker 1: religion at a community college to be religious.
[2:59:27] Speaker 3: My chemistry teacher last semester was a Christian.
[2:59:31] Speaker 1: I'm sure they exist.
[2:59:32] Speaker 3: I know you just told me that people who teach
[2:59:36] Speaker 3: science classes are not going to be Christian.
[2:59:38] Speaker 1: I didn't say that. I said overwhelmingly people in the
[2:59:40] Speaker 1: sciences don't believe in God. That doesn't mean they don't exist.
[2:59:45] Speaker 3: Okay, So the first science teacher that I've had in
[2:59:47] Speaker 3: college just happened to be a Christian.
[2:59:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's probably whether at a community college.
[2:59:54] Speaker 3: It's university. It's not a community college.
[2:59:56] Speaker 1: Oh okay, Vanderbilt is different. That's a real school.
[3:00:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, so she's she's a Christian from van about university
[3:00:02] Speaker 3: teaching chemistry. So I don't know if your argument for
[3:00:07] Speaker 3: that was.
[3:00:08] Speaker 1: Really argument's good because it's this one professor. We've actually
[3:00:12] Speaker 1: have surveys of people in the science fields, and with
[3:00:15] Speaker 1: the actual surveys, we have the overwhelmingly don't believe in God.
[3:00:21] Speaker 3: And I also was talking to my this is actually
[3:00:24] Speaker 3: interesting that you say this as well, because I'm in
[3:00:26] Speaker 3: physics right now and he was taught he was going
[3:00:30] Speaker 3: over the laws.
[3:00:31] Speaker 6: I don't.
[3:00:31] Speaker 2: I don't.
[3:00:32] Speaker 3: I'm not supposed to even really be taking physics. There's
[3:00:34] Speaker 3: nothing to do with my relate a major, so I
[3:00:35] Speaker 3: don't know much stuff going on in the class. But
[3:00:39] Speaker 3: he deemed the eternal universe to not be probable that probable.
[3:00:43] Speaker 1: Well, I literally do a Sunday broadcast with an actual
[3:00:46] Speaker 1: PhD physicist who agrees with me. So I think, I
[3:00:51] Speaker 1: think I think so, Charlie. All you're doing is you're saying,
[3:00:55] Speaker 1: I know a guy that agrees with me. But I
[3:00:57] Speaker 1: could say I know a guy that agrees with me.
[3:01:00] Speaker 1: You have to provide something better than that, Like I'm
[3:01:03] Speaker 1: using like when I talk about cosmology, like I'm using
[3:01:06] Speaker 1: positions that are widely held. I'm not just saying, well,
[3:01:10] Speaker 1: I know one cosmologist that agrees with me. Do you
[3:01:13] Speaker 1: understand the difference?
[3:01:24] Speaker 3: Oh, there we go. I don't know how to mute myself. Yeah,
[3:01:28] Speaker 3: I'm just saying that you were saying that well known people,
[3:01:31] Speaker 3: for the most part, are not going to be holding
[3:01:33] Speaker 3: to the possibility of God existing. I'm telling you that
[3:01:37] Speaker 3: I'm at a current university where these have PhDs from
[3:01:40] Speaker 3: the most profound places all across the world. And I'm
[3:01:44] Speaker 3: giving you two examples of my first two teachers in
[3:01:46] Speaker 3: the science classes that deem both the eternal universe for
[3:01:50] Speaker 3: not having a high probability of existing. In my past
[3:01:52] Speaker 3: chemistry teacher last semester being a Christian.
[3:01:55] Speaker 1: Cool, did you hear what I said? Because what I
[3:01:57] Speaker 1: just said with a rebuttal.
[3:01:59] Speaker 3: To that, and what's the difference. You're saying that my
[3:02:01] Speaker 3: people are wrong and your people are right wrong.
[3:02:04] Speaker 1: No, I said, I'm appealing to a consensus of the field.
[3:02:07] Speaker 1: I'm not looking at one or two scientists. I'm looking
[3:02:10] Speaker 1: at the whole field of scientists. Which is why I
[3:02:13] Speaker 1: told you, if you look at the field of science,
[3:02:16] Speaker 1: they overwhelmingly reject the notion of a god.
[3:02:19] Speaker 3: And you know why, because from the very beginning of
[3:02:21] Speaker 3: science classes, from the moment you start to the moment
[3:02:23] Speaker 3: you finished, it's telling you that science is true. From
[3:02:28] Speaker 3: the very foundation of science, it's telling that evolution is true,
[3:02:31] Speaker 3: one hundred percent fact, and you learn it and you
[3:02:33] Speaker 3: have to say it as fact. They don't say that
[3:02:36] Speaker 3: it's a probability that it's true. They're saying evolution is true.
[3:02:40] Speaker 3: They're saying that there is no chance that there was
[3:02:42] Speaker 3: a creator. It most likely definitely came from the Big Bang.
[3:02:46] Speaker 3: So these people are going from all the way from
[3:02:47] Speaker 3: middle school to high school to college, they're getting PhDs
[3:02:51] Speaker 3: in science classes, and from the very beginning they're telling
[3:02:54] Speaker 3: you that the probability of a god existing is not true.
[3:02:57] Speaker 3: So I'm not surprised that the well majority of sciences
[3:03:00] Speaker 3: do not believe in the possibility they're being creator because
[3:03:03] Speaker 3: from age twelve to thirty. They're being told that evolution
[3:03:07] Speaker 3: and all these things are true, and they're being presented
[3:03:09] Speaker 3: as facts.
[3:03:10] Speaker 1: Actually a lot of them were Christians before they went
[3:03:12] Speaker 1: into higher education. In fact, that was my case, and
[3:03:17] Speaker 1: in fact Sarah just jumped up and joined us. That
[3:03:19] Speaker 1: was Sarah's case. She's got a PhD in physiology and
[3:03:22] Speaker 1: she used to be a Christian as well, but she
[3:03:24] Speaker 1: certainly isn't anymore. That's I think evolution has got a
[3:03:31] Speaker 1: lot of support. And the problem we have, and we
[3:03:35] Speaker 1: kind of got off the beaten track here, is that
[3:03:38] Speaker 1: the Bible just over and over again, says things that
[3:03:40] Speaker 1: are clearly not true. Like it can't get history right,
[3:03:43] Speaker 1: it can't get science right. It says that there's a
[3:03:46] Speaker 1: dome over top of the earth and that the earth
[3:03:48] Speaker 1: is basically flat. Called in Job thirty eight, it says
[3:03:52] Speaker 1: that the Exodus was in the middle of the fourteen
[3:03:54] Speaker 1: hundreds and says that they built the storehouses of Ramsays,
[3:03:58] Speaker 1: but Ramses didn't exist for another two hundred years. Like,
[3:04:02] Speaker 1: it just gets things wrong all over the place. It's
[3:04:04] Speaker 1: not from God.
[3:04:06] Speaker 3: Okay, I guess it's different because it's coming to be
[3:04:08] Speaker 3: from God. If you look throughout history, A ton of
[3:04:11] Speaker 3: history books or things that have been proven to be
[3:04:13] Speaker 3: true ended up being proven false. Many of the wartimes
[3:04:16] Speaker 3: that we see throughout history, they say that they were
[3:04:18] Speaker 3: in certain locations, but there's locations were actually not the
[3:04:21] Speaker 3: beginning of the conquest and all sorts of stuff like that.
[3:04:24] Speaker 1: Are you doubting we know when Ramses lived?
[3:04:28] Speaker 3: No, I'm just saying to get stuff like that wrong
[3:04:31] Speaker 3: that long ago and to like mess up on when
[3:04:35] Speaker 3: Ramses existed, I just don't think it's that important at all,
[3:04:37] Speaker 3: because I think it is very important. I'm just saying,
[3:04:41] Speaker 3: if we look throughout history books, we can see all
[3:04:43] Speaker 3: sorts of things that are not correct.
[3:04:45] Speaker 1: I'm talking about the Bible. We shouldn't we shouldn't find
[3:04:48] Speaker 1: things in the Bible that are incorrect. The Bible says
[3:04:50] Speaker 1: that rock Badger's chew cut, and they don't. In fact,
[3:04:54] Speaker 1: they lack the ability to regurgitate.
[3:04:58] Speaker 3: Like for you to be invest to getting the Bible
[3:05:01] Speaker 3: that much and you're coming away with information like that,
[3:05:04] Speaker 3: I just do not think is very appealing, Like for
[3:05:07] Speaker 3: you to just be like, well, this is what I
[3:05:09] Speaker 3: found that they don't that these certain animals don't regurgitate.
[3:05:12] Speaker 1: But is the Bible true?
[3:05:14] Speaker 3: Is that really it is if you take ninety If
[3:05:17] Speaker 3: you take ninety percent, if any buck I'm not saying
[3:05:19] Speaker 3: that that's in correlation to what the Bible is, but
[3:05:22] Speaker 3: ten percent of it is false. You don't say that
[3:05:23] Speaker 3: the rest of the ninety percent is true. If it's
[3:05:25] Speaker 3: saying that an animal can't eat a certain thing because
[3:05:28] Speaker 3: they can't regurgitate, I really don't give a crap about
[3:05:31] Speaker 3: that at all.
[3:05:32] Speaker 1: Like, yeah, but the question is if the Bible says
[3:05:34] Speaker 1: things over and over again that aren't true, why in
[3:05:36] Speaker 1: the world would I believe the like the metaphysical claims
[3:05:40] Speaker 1: that are in the Bible, Like the Bible says that
[3:05:43] Speaker 1: if a woman doesn't bleed on her wedding night, that
[3:05:45] Speaker 1: she's not a virgin. But we got a physiologist with
[3:05:49] Speaker 1: us right now that can tell you that less than
[3:05:51] Speaker 1: half of women bleed their first time.
[3:05:55] Speaker 3: That's okay.
[3:05:58] Speaker 2: And totally.
[3:05:59] Speaker 9: That happens to be particularly important rather than a tiny
[3:06:02] Speaker 9: little detail, because that false information that was used to
[3:06:07] Speaker 9: then say let's put these women to death.
[3:06:11] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean yeah, I don't think that everything that
[3:06:17] Speaker 3: is in the Bible is God inspired. I think that
[3:06:19] Speaker 3: it was. I think that it was made by man,
[3:06:22] Speaker 3: because if it was God inspired to be when to
[3:06:24] Speaker 3: be seeing these mistakes in it. I think that the
[3:06:26] Speaker 3: overall message of the Bible, that he would send his
[3:06:28] Speaker 3: son to fix it is God inspired. I don't think
[3:06:31] Speaker 3: that everything is God breathed. And even if you look
[3:06:33] Speaker 3: at the original Greek for the verses that says all
[3:06:35] Speaker 3: scripture is God breathe, it's not actually saying God. Well,
[3:06:39] Speaker 3: I think it was like God inspired or God breathed.
[3:06:41] Speaker 3: There's like controversy to what that even means. I know,
[3:06:44] Speaker 3: so I'm saying that, like, it's not even everything in
[3:06:48] Speaker 3: the Bible. I don't think is like God is directly
[3:06:51] Speaker 3: telling them, like this animal eats this certain thing, but
[3:06:55] Speaker 3: then we come to find out that I can't regurgitate.
[3:06:57] Speaker 3: I don't think God was like whispering in their ear,
[3:06:59] Speaker 3: like this is what you need to write. I think
[3:07:01] Speaker 3: that the overall gist of the Bible in and of
[3:07:03] Speaker 3: itself is what is true. I don't think the little
[3:07:06] Speaker 3: details that like what animal he wrote on, was inspired
[3:07:09] Speaker 3: by God.
[3:07:09] Speaker 1: Okay, so when it says in Deuteronomy and Leviticus that
[3:07:13] Speaker 1: God gave these laws to Moses and Moses is uttering
[3:07:16] Speaker 1: the laws of God. He's not actually doing that.
[3:07:20] Speaker 3: Wait you say that again?
[3:07:21] Speaker 1: Sorry, I was when Deuteronomy and Leviticus claim that this
[3:07:25] Speaker 1: is the utterance of God. It's not actually the utterance
[3:07:28] Speaker 1: of God.
[3:07:29] Speaker 3: Then, like the whole Bible in and of itself is
[3:07:32] Speaker 3: the errant of God.
[3:07:33] Speaker 1: No, the laws. According to the Old Testament, God gave
[3:07:36] Speaker 1: everyone these laws.
[3:07:37] Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, I think the laws would be utterance
[3:07:41] Speaker 3: of God.
[3:07:41] Speaker 1: Okay, so then you have to agree that in Deuteronomy
[3:07:44] Speaker 1: twenty two, God gave a law to the Israelites that
[3:07:48] Speaker 1: allows for women to be executed via stoning if they
[3:07:51] Speaker 1: don't bleed on their wedding night.
[3:07:59] Speaker 3: I mean, I don't always say yes to that, but
[3:08:01] Speaker 3: I'm not sure.
[3:08:02] Speaker 1: Exactly we can read it for you wanted to read it?
[3:08:05] Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, yeah, I really do have to go in
[3:08:09] Speaker 3: like five minutes so to do a presentation.
[3:08:11] Speaker 9: So, Charlie, I think the big question then is if
[3:08:14] Speaker 9: you know that some of it is false, how do
[3:08:18] Speaker 9: you determine which parts are true.
[3:08:21] Speaker 3: I think that the only thing that you really need
[3:08:24] Speaker 3: to fully consider true in the Bible is the birth
[3:08:27] Speaker 3: of Jesus in the resurrection of Jesus.
[3:08:30] Speaker 9: But that doesn't answer the question, how did you determine
[3:08:32] Speaker 9: that those parts were true.
[3:08:36] Speaker 3: That the birth and resurrection of Jesus were true. I
[3:08:39] Speaker 3: think the birth of Jesus is well accepted, or like
[3:08:44] Speaker 3: the Jesus in general, is well accepted throughout the world.
[3:08:47] Speaker 3: I think that people would deem that he is he
[3:08:50] Speaker 3: was a real person, and I think there is also
[3:08:53] Speaker 3: good evidence for the resurrection of Jesus.
[3:08:57] Speaker 1: I don't think there is. Do you think there's good
[3:08:59] Speaker 1: evidence for Joseph Myth being a prophet of God? I'm
[3:09:03] Speaker 1: not sure, but he's real. He predicted things. He actually
[3:09:06] Speaker 1: he predicted the Civil War was going to happen, okay,
[3:09:13] Speaker 1: But Jesus predicted things that didn't come true at all.
[3:09:17] Speaker 1: Like in Matthew ten twenty three, Matthew sixteen twenty seven,
[3:09:20] Speaker 1: twenty eight, and Matthew fourteen thirty two. He says that
[3:09:24] Speaker 1: his second coming is going to be imminent, it's going
[3:09:26] Speaker 1: to be within the generation of the people still living there.
[3:09:29] Speaker 1: But it wasn't. It didn't happen because he's not a messiah.
[3:09:36] Speaker 3: Wait, the second coming, yeah, says for the son of.
[3:09:40] Speaker 1: Man is to come with his angels in the glory
[3:09:42] Speaker 1: of his father, and then he will repay everybody for
[3:09:44] Speaker 1: what has been done. Truly, I tell you there are
[3:09:47] Speaker 1: some standing here who will not taste death before they
[3:09:50] Speaker 1: see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.
[3:09:58] Speaker 3: I don't understand the problem with that.
[3:10:02] Speaker 1: Are all those people dead?
[3:10:04] Speaker 5: Well?
[3:10:04] Speaker 3: The Second Coming hasn't happened yet, that's.
[3:10:06] Speaker 1: The point, yep. And he said it's going to happen,
[3:10:09] Speaker 1: while some of you standing here with me will not
[3:10:13] Speaker 1: have tasted death by the time it happens.
[3:10:16] Speaker 3: This is exactly what I mean as well, though, Like
[3:10:19] Speaker 3: you're not supposed to be taking that directly literally.
[3:10:21] Speaker 1: Oh so the words doesn't mean words anymore for some.
[3:10:24] Speaker 3: Of the people standing here with me. I think that
[3:10:27] Speaker 3: means like the people who are there who were not believers.
[3:10:30] Speaker 3: Like when you said that, I didn't even think anything
[3:10:32] Speaker 3: was wrong with it at first, because my mind firstly
[3:10:34] Speaker 3: thought of people you're standing with me who are not believers.
[3:10:37] Speaker 1: Who's standing there?
[3:10:39] Speaker 9: But they're all dead too?
[3:10:41] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm saying, oh, but like people who were
[3:10:44] Speaker 3: standing there with him, some of them were not believers,
[3:10:46] Speaker 3: just how some of us today are not believers. So
[3:10:50] Speaker 3: they're all dead, Yeah, they're all dead.
[3:10:52] Speaker 1: Okay, because it says some of you standing here will
[3:10:54] Speaker 1: not taste death. Before they see the Son of Man
[3:10:57] Speaker 1: coming in his kingdom, they're all dead.
[3:11:04] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I just I just again, I'm not
[3:11:07] Speaker 3: going to stress over a verse like that over a lie, sorry.
[3:11:11] Speaker 9: Sir, oh No, I mean this is not like a
[3:11:15] Speaker 9: little tiny detail. This is Jesus telling his disciples about
[3:11:19] Speaker 9: the Second Coming. I mean that's a that's a pretty
[3:11:22] Speaker 9: big deal.
[3:11:25] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[3:11:25] Speaker 3: But again, even when you read it the first time,
[3:11:27] Speaker 3: I think when many other people read it the first time,
[3:11:30] Speaker 3: if you're reading it to contradict it, of course it's
[3:11:32] Speaker 3: gonna you're gonna look into every key thing.
[3:11:34] Speaker 1: I didn't read it to contradict it. I knew this
[3:11:36] Speaker 1: verse existed when I was a teenager, and I found
[3:11:39] Speaker 1: it by reading the Bible. When I believed that the
[3:11:41] Speaker 1: Bible was true.
[3:11:44] Speaker 3: Well, then from an early age it was probably hard
[3:11:46] Speaker 3: for you to accept anything as truth. I think that's
[3:11:48] Speaker 3: hard for me too, because like for me to believe
[3:11:52] Speaker 3: in the Bible, I have to think, like not everything
[3:11:55] Speaker 3: in it, it's gonna be easy to believe. But for
[3:11:58] Speaker 3: a verse like this, just saying that we'll not taste death,
[3:12:01] Speaker 3: I just don't think that that is like literal people
[3:12:04] Speaker 3: there are not going to taste death.
[3:12:05] Speaker 1: What is it?
[3:12:06] Speaker 3: What does it mean then, exactly what I thought it
[3:12:08] Speaker 3: meant when you first read it.
[3:12:10] Speaker 1: Well, what does it mean If it doesn't mean that
[3:12:11] Speaker 1: they die, what does it mean?
[3:12:13] Speaker 3: I tried to explain it, but you thought my explanation
[3:12:15] Speaker 3: was stupid. What I thought it meant was like, some
[3:12:18] Speaker 3: people like you who are standing here, who are not Christians,
[3:12:21] Speaker 3: will not enter the Kingdom of God.
[3:12:22] Speaker 1: He didn't say anything about entering a kingdom of God,
[3:12:26] Speaker 1: or I.
[3:12:26] Speaker 3: Meant his second coming. They will not see the second coming.
[3:12:32] Speaker 1: He's talking to his disciples. You know that, right, Yes,
[3:12:36] Speaker 1: I know that he's talking to his disciples, and he says,
[3:12:39] Speaker 1: some of you standing here to his disciples will not
[3:12:44] Speaker 1: taste death. It's talking about dying.
[3:12:50] Speaker 3: Maybe maybe it's meaning they will not taste death, as
[3:12:54] Speaker 3: in there already believe fevers of God, so when they die,
[3:12:57] Speaker 3: they'll go to heaven, and God doesn't consider dying going
[3:13:00] Speaker 3: to heaven death like true death.
[3:13:01] Speaker 1: Well, there's only two deaths. There's a physical death and
[3:13:03] Speaker 1: then there's the second death. The second death comes after
[3:13:06] Speaker 1: the judgment, after the second Coming. He says it again
[3:13:11] Speaker 1: in Matthew twenty four. He doubles down on it. He
[3:13:16] Speaker 1: says it again in Matthew ten twenty three. Even he
[3:13:20] Speaker 1: gives all the signs of the end times. In Matthew
[3:13:22] Speaker 1: twenty four says the sun will be darken, the moon
[3:13:25] Speaker 1: will not give its light, the stars will fall from heaven,
[3:13:27] Speaker 1: the powers of heaven will be shaken. Then the sign
[3:13:30] Speaker 1: of the Sun of Man will appear in heaven, and
[3:13:32] Speaker 1: all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will
[3:13:34] Speaker 1: see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of
[3:13:35] Speaker 1: heaven with power and great glory. And he will send
[3:13:38] Speaker 1: out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they
[3:13:40] Speaker 1: will gather his elect from the four winds, from one
[3:13:43] Speaker 1: end of heaven to the other. And then he says,
[3:13:45] Speaker 1: from the fig tree, learn it's lesson as soon as
[3:13:47] Speaker 1: this branches become tender, and puts forth his leave. So
[3:13:50] Speaker 1: you know that summer's near. So also when you see
[3:13:52] Speaker 1: these things, you know that he is near at the
[3:13:56] Speaker 1: very gates. Truly, I tell you, this generation will not
[3:13:59] Speaker 1: pass away until all of these things have taken place.
[3:14:04] Speaker 1: They're all dead too.
[3:14:06] Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't know about that, all right, But I
[3:14:10] Speaker 3: actually really do have to go though, So it was
[3:14:12] Speaker 3: nice talking with you, Charlie.
[3:14:13] Speaker 1: Thanks for coming through. Man good to hear.
[3:14:15] Speaker 2: Thank you.
[3:14:18] Speaker 1: The mental gymnastics that you have to age.
[3:14:22] Speaker 9: That was hard to listen to.
[3:14:24] Speaker 1: That was rough I listen. I was a young apologist.
[3:14:27] Speaker 1: Once I get it, let me grab a couple of
[3:14:31] Speaker 1: super chests. We'll get our next guest in here. Thank
[3:14:33] Speaker 1: you Rachel for the ten hour superchest says, anything God
[3:14:36] Speaker 1: can do, Doug can do better. Doug can do everything
[3:14:39] Speaker 1: better than God. No he can't, Yes he can, No,
[3:14:43] Speaker 1: he can't. Yes. If I could sing, i'd sing it. Oh,
[3:14:49] Speaker 1: this is an old one, Tim says, proved Jeremiah is
[3:14:51] Speaker 1: about Babylon and captivity, or you could just read your
[3:14:54] Speaker 1: own book and know it for your damn self. Unbelievable.
[3:14:56] Speaker 2: I know.
[3:14:58] Speaker 1: It's wild to me how many people claimed to know
[3:15:00] Speaker 1: the Bible is the word of God, but they just
[3:15:02] Speaker 1: haven't taken the time to read it. Nihilis. Thank you
[3:15:08] Speaker 1: for the thirteen ninety nine superges says, justin question, when
[3:15:12] Speaker 1: I bring up Deuteronomy twenty two thirteen through twenty, Christians
[3:15:15] Speaker 1: say that was part of the ethical law that Jesus
[3:15:18] Speaker 1: abolished and we should still follow the moral law. Do
[3:15:21] Speaker 1: you have any idea what they mean? They're lying, They're
[3:15:23] Speaker 1: just saying the parts of the law that we don't like,
[3:15:26] Speaker 1: we're going to say are abolished. In the parts that
[3:15:28] Speaker 1: we do like, we're going to say are still in fact.
[3:15:30] Speaker 1: But take them to Matthew five seventeen through nineteen and
[3:15:33] Speaker 1: chrom where Jesus says that it's good to follow the
[3:15:35] Speaker 1: law of Moses. He didn't say the ten Commandments, he
[3:15:38] Speaker 1: didn't say just a couple of the commandments. He just
[3:15:42] Speaker 1: says the law and the prophets he came to fulfill.
[3:15:44] Speaker 1: That includes all of the laws of Moses. And take
[3:15:48] Speaker 1: them also to Deuteronomy, where in Deuteronomy it says to
[3:15:51] Speaker 1: follow these laws literally forever. Deuteronomy four, verse one and two,
[3:15:55] Speaker 1: Deuteronomy twelve, verse one and two, Deuteronomy twelve, verse thirty two,
[3:16:00] Speaker 1: Deuteronomy twelve, verse twenty eight. There's like a dozen instances
[3:16:05] Speaker 1: where God, when he gave the laws, said to follow
[3:16:07] Speaker 1: the laws forever. He didn't say anything about one day
[3:16:11] Speaker 1: modifying the laws. Oh my gosh, guys, that we have
[3:16:15] Speaker 1: so many super chats that came in during some of
[3:16:18] Speaker 1: these conversations. I'm going to try to get through all
[3:16:21] Speaker 1: of a Matthew, thank you for the supertest, says Justin'd
[3:16:23] Speaker 1: like to demonstrate the power of Christ to affect one's
[3:16:26] Speaker 1: character by being a complete jerk. That works, right now, Doug,
[3:16:31] Speaker 1: you got it. I love it when people come up
[3:16:33] Speaker 1: and say, like, the proof of God is that, like
[3:16:37] Speaker 1: he changed my life, but then like they're a complete jerk.
[3:16:40] Speaker 1: I'm like, well, that's not good proof. I don't think
[3:16:43] Speaker 1: you're helping yourself. Ben, thank you for the supertest, says
[3:16:46] Speaker 1: The overwhelming majority of Christian New Testament scholars agree that
[3:16:49] Speaker 1: we don't know who wrote the Gospels. Guy has no idea. Yeah,
[3:16:52] Speaker 1: that's from the way previous caller. I agree. New Testament
[3:16:55] Speaker 1: scholars overwhelmingly agree that the Gospels were originally anonamous. Anonymous
[3:17:00] Speaker 1: Willma Dickliffe. Good to hear from me tonight. Thank you
[3:17:02] Speaker 1: for the supertest, says When do we get a Christians
[3:17:05] Speaker 1: aren't Christian? They're Pauline discussion. Let the pebbles come to
[3:17:09] Speaker 1: me the Gospel of Doug for twenty so I eventually
[3:17:13] Speaker 1: we will have to do that. I don't know how
[3:17:15] Speaker 1: we word the topic though, you know, what I mean, like,
[3:17:17] Speaker 1: how do we how do we word the topic to
[3:17:21] Speaker 1: have that discussion of like, hey, as it turns out,
[3:17:24] Speaker 1: Pauline Christianity is not the same as Jesus Christianity. You
[3:17:30] Speaker 1: know what I mean?
[3:17:31] Speaker 9: Yeah, you could say like something like you follow paul
[3:17:36] Speaker 9: instead of Jesus or something.
[3:17:38] Speaker 3: Oh, that could be.
[3:17:41] Speaker 1: They could be it. Oh, there we go, space, you
[3:17:44] Speaker 1: got it. Yeah, it was Matthew ten twenty one and
[3:17:46] Speaker 1: Mark thirteen twelve. That is a direct word for word
[3:17:50] Speaker 1: copy says sibling will betray sibling to death, and a father,
[3:17:54] Speaker 1: his child and children will rise against parents and have
[3:17:57] Speaker 1: them put to death. And then Mark thirteen s will
[3:18:00] Speaker 1: portray siblings to death, and a father, his child and
[3:18:03] Speaker 1: children will rise against parents and have them put to death.
[3:18:05] Speaker 1: Even in English and in Greek, it's going to give
[3:18:07] Speaker 1: you the same word order. Yeah, because they're copying from
[3:18:11] Speaker 1: each other. This is not a questionable topic in New
[3:18:15] Speaker 1: Testament scholarship. It's wild to me that people are questioning this. Jeremy,
[3:18:20] Speaker 1: thank you for the Superchesch says, thank you, justin for
[3:18:21] Speaker 1: what you do. We need more people like you. Well,
[3:18:24] Speaker 1: you know what, we've got, Sarah, and we've got em
[3:18:26] Speaker 1: We've got a bunch of people that are like me
[3:18:28] Speaker 1: doing these debates. And Icon thank you for the ten
[3:18:30] Speaker 1: dollar superchest says we do have photos of other planets
[3:18:34] Speaker 1: with storms, natural disasters, asteroids hit and yet no people
[3:18:38] Speaker 1: living there in sin? Does human sin extend to other planets?
[3:18:42] Speaker 1: That's such a good point, because if natural disasters are
[3:18:45] Speaker 1: a product of sin, why do they exist on planets
[3:18:47] Speaker 1: with no human beings? It's crazy.
[3:18:49] Speaker 3: That is a point.
[3:18:52] Speaker 1: And Meno thank you for the superchest, says I'm a
[3:18:54] Speaker 1: nurse practitioner. What's the best short response when a patient
[3:18:58] Speaker 1: says they will pray? That just shows himself to me.
[3:19:02] Speaker 1: I mean I would just say, well, that's hard because
[3:19:08] Speaker 1: as a nurse practitioner you have to have like bedside manners.
[3:19:10] Speaker 1: You have to like there's like a way you interact
[3:19:12] Speaker 1: with your patients. You can't be antagonistic with them because
[3:19:16] Speaker 1: like I'm not a nurse. I would say something snarky,
[3:19:19] Speaker 1: but you can't do that as a nurse. You gotta
[3:19:20] Speaker 1: be good. So you know, I would just say, you know,
[3:19:25] Speaker 1: you know, appreciate the kindness, but you know, you know
[3:19:30] Speaker 1: I've already asked and he has already said no, obviously,
[3:19:33] Speaker 1: so no need to praying for me. But yeah, that's
[3:19:37] Speaker 1: a tough one. I don't get that a lot from
[3:19:40] Speaker 1: people in the wild. I just only get it from
[3:19:42] Speaker 1: people in debates, like they like that's the last thing
[3:19:45] Speaker 1: they cling to when they've been cooked, and like, well,
[3:19:47] Speaker 1: I'll pray that God reveals himself to you, because okay,
[3:19:53] Speaker 1: all right, guys, let me get a guest in here.
[3:19:56] Speaker 1: All right, Oh my gosh, there's so many I guess
[3:19:58] Speaker 1: we're going to get in all right, let's care yab
[3:20:03] Speaker 1: yahweh elohem yahoosha woo. That's a mouthful. Erica, thank you
[3:20:10] Speaker 1: for becoming a subscriber on TikTok. I appreciate that. While
[3:20:13] Speaker 1: we're waiting for yahweh eloheim yahusha to connect, let me
[3:20:16] Speaker 1: grab some super jets. Wild man Chris good to see
[3:20:18] Speaker 1: again tonight, says Job one two, job nor charge God
[3:20:24] Speaker 1: foolishly Job four eleven. They consoled him for the evil
[3:20:27] Speaker 1: the Lord had brought upon him paradox or contradiction. Well,
[3:20:31] Speaker 1: that's the hard thing because in Biblical Hebrew, the word
[3:20:34] Speaker 1: for evil and the word for like bad or calamity
[3:20:38] Speaker 1: is all one word. Like they didn't really differentiate badness
[3:20:43] Speaker 1: from evil, like the idea that evil is this transcendental
[3:20:46] Speaker 1: category is different, right, Mike, thank you for the hel
[3:20:51] Speaker 1: Odin drink the victory, big w. I appreciate that hel Odin.
[3:20:55] Speaker 1: I like Odin, and this guest is not connecting. So
[3:20:58] Speaker 1: let me grab the next guest and we'll Oh they
[3:21:01] Speaker 1: dropped cool, all right, so we'll grab the next guest. Eric,
[3:21:04] Speaker 1: thank you for the super chest, says how do these
[3:21:06] Speaker 1: people not get even a twinge in their spidy sense
[3:21:08] Speaker 1: when they vaguely waive an idea you name the verse?
[3:21:12] Speaker 1: I'd be super worried by that, you.
[3:21:14] Speaker 9: Know, Yeah, that's gotta be very intimidating.
[3:21:20] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[3:21:20] Speaker 1: If I was in a conversation declaring to know the
[3:21:23] Speaker 1: truth and the guy I was talking to could just
[3:21:26] Speaker 1: tell you where the verse was whatever they're talking about,
[3:21:29] Speaker 1: that would be like a white flag moment. I'd be like,
[3:21:33] Speaker 1: I don't mind, I don't know if I'm in the
[3:21:35] Speaker 1: right place. Like if I was talking to somebody about
[3:21:41] Speaker 1: the Koran, and every time I brought something up, he's like, oh,
[3:21:43] Speaker 1: that's in Sarah two forty eight. Oh that's in Sarah
[3:21:46] Speaker 1: eight forty five. I'm like, Oh, this guy knows the Koran.
[3:21:49] Speaker 1: I gotta tread carefully here. Definitely all right, Jay is
[3:21:55] Speaker 1: not connecting either.
[3:21:56] Speaker 2: Jay.
[3:21:56] Speaker 1: I'm going to keep moving on. If you want to
[3:21:58] Speaker 1: come in, you're welcome to come in time. I'm but
[3:22:00] Speaker 1: I got to keep moving through the queue. So we'll
[3:22:05] Speaker 1: do what we can. We're gonna get aj every day
[3:22:08] Speaker 1: in here, and Jordi thank you for the super j
[3:22:12] Speaker 1: Jordie says, can you give me a Jesus failing a prophecy? Flatly?
[3:22:16] Speaker 1: All of them, like Zachari ninety nine love it says
[3:22:19] Speaker 1: that he's going to be a king and he's going
[3:22:21] Speaker 1: to defeat Israel's enemies. And Jesus was never king. He
[3:22:25] Speaker 1: never defeated the enemies of Israel. Flatley failed, didn't do it.
[3:22:31] Speaker 1: We haven't talked about slavery tonight, but Evan says, Christians
[3:22:33] Speaker 1: on slavery, you have to understand the context. Christian's on prophecy,
[3:22:37] Speaker 1: context doesn't matter. You nailed it one hundred percent. Yeah.
[3:22:43] Speaker 1: The minute they don't like what it says, they want
[3:22:46] Speaker 1: to say, you don't know the context. But then when
[3:22:49] Speaker 1: when you read the prophecy, they're like, oh, to ignore
[3:22:51] Speaker 1: all the context. It doesn't matter. We're going to apply
[3:22:53] Speaker 1: a new subjective meaning to it. And the subjective meaning
[3:22:56] Speaker 1: is whatever my new Testament tells me.
[3:22:58] Speaker 6: It is all right.
[3:22:59] Speaker 1: They didn't connect either, so we're just gonna keep on rolling.
[3:23:02] Speaker 1: We've got wisdom Ikei Chua corro chew Wu coming up.
[3:23:09] Speaker 1: We'll see if they can connect. Jordi says badgers were
[3:23:14] Speaker 1: never mentioned. I think you're referring to Leviticus the eleven,
[3:23:17] Speaker 1: chapter four and five talking about the rock badgers. Yeah,
[3:23:20] Speaker 1: it's in there. The rock badgers are in there.
[3:23:22] Speaker 9: Okay, I gotta be honest. I don't know what a
[3:23:24] Speaker 9: rock badger is.
[3:23:26] Speaker 1: It's uh well, the The other name for a rock
[3:23:29] Speaker 1: badger is also hard to identify. It's a hi rex.
[3:23:35] Speaker 9: Oh wait is that? Would you see that? Like at
[3:23:38] Speaker 9: the zoo? Because I feel like I've seen that word before.
[3:23:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's it's a it's related. It's I'll show
[3:23:45] Speaker 1: you hold on. So it's related to the marmins. I thought,
[3:23:52] Speaker 1: oh yeah, no, I totally know what that is, right,
[3:23:55] Speaker 1: aren't Aren't they related to marmots?
[3:23:57] Speaker 9: Marmints look like marmots. I don't know, but they're cute.
[3:24:00] Speaker 1: Oh I know, they're door born things, and I want
[3:24:02] Speaker 1: to squeeze them. They might they might not be marmots.
[3:24:05] Speaker 1: I could be wrong. I thought they were, but who knows. Anyways,
[3:24:08] Speaker 1: that's a rock badger and according to the Bible, they
[3:24:10] Speaker 1: chew cut, but they certainly don't. Space Lord says, we
[3:24:14] Speaker 1: know when Ramsey's ruled. We have his mummy. Yes, we
[3:24:18] Speaker 1: have material evidence literally from Ramsey's lifetime. We have his body.
[3:24:25] Speaker 1: Orgami said, my favorite YouTube cooking channel, Well big w
[3:24:29] Speaker 1: t you that guest dropped out. We have a lot
[3:24:31] Speaker 1: of guests not drop not connecting. Well try Lucas now melodious,
[3:24:37] Speaker 1: thank you for the Superjest says guests can't stop lying
[3:24:39] Speaker 1: to himself. I know, listen, he was doing his best
[3:24:43] Speaker 1: to defend the book. I just think this is the
[3:24:46] Speaker 1: first time he's ever been pressed on these things that
[3:24:48] Speaker 1: he didn't know what to say, and he wasn't willing
[3:24:51] Speaker 1: to like concede the nonsense. So this guess is trying
[3:24:56] Speaker 1: to connect. Umm, they did not connect. Luke, come on
[3:25:00] Speaker 1: back if you can find some holy spirit wi Fi.
[3:25:04] Speaker 1: We're going to keep on moving though. Are a grab
[3:25:08] Speaker 1: scarface king see if they can connect. Eli says, I
[3:25:11] Speaker 1: feel sorry for this caller, I know, I felt a
[3:25:14] Speaker 1: little bit bad for him, it says, as he reminds
[3:25:16] Speaker 1: me of myself when I was a Muslim, albeit nowhere
[3:25:18] Speaker 1: to the extent of ignorance. A confirmation bias will will
[3:25:21] Speaker 1: run your impetus for truth into the ground. That's basically it, right,
[3:25:26] Speaker 1: Like Sarah, remember when when we were both Christians and
[3:25:29] Speaker 1: when people brought up difficult passions as the Bible, typically
[3:25:32] Speaker 1: the first instinct is to try to make the problem
[3:25:35] Speaker 1: go away, right, right, right, rather than like, rather than
[3:25:40] Speaker 1: looking at it and be like, oh, that is a problem.
[3:25:41] Speaker 1: Oh shit, I guess I don't believe anymore. Your first
[3:25:44] Speaker 1: instinct is to it's just self preservation.
[3:25:47] Speaker 9: Right, right, you have to defend it, and yeah, you
[3:25:50] Speaker 9: already have come to the conclusion, and so the contradicting
[3:25:53] Speaker 9: evidence just has to be defeated rather than considered.
[3:25:57] Speaker 1: Right exactly, yeah, exactly, yeah, you make it make it
[3:25:59] Speaker 1: go way. I had a boss back when I was
[3:26:03] Speaker 1: young man, and like when customers, when customers called in
[3:26:11] Speaker 1: because like one of their robots broke, our policy was
[3:26:16] Speaker 1: the goal is to get it fixed and get it working,
[3:26:19] Speaker 1: even if it wasn't like the preferred method, and he
[3:26:22] Speaker 1: would say, before you left the office. He would say,
[3:26:26] Speaker 1: I don't know what the problem is, but make it
[3:26:28] Speaker 1: go away before you leave. He didn't care how you
[3:26:32] Speaker 1: did it, just make sure it didn't come back. All right,
[3:26:37] Speaker 1: we'll get Joe Smith up in here. Come on, somebody
[3:26:39] Speaker 1: connect right.
[3:26:42] Speaker 9: Checkers was getting into the dog food.
[3:26:44] Speaker 1: W Checkers, what are you well, Joe's not connecting. We'll
[3:26:50] Speaker 1: give him a second. We'll read a super chat if Joe.
[3:26:52] Speaker 1: If you don't connect by the end of the super chat,
[3:26:54] Speaker 1: I got to move on to the next one. Flankard,
[3:26:56] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the super chat. By the way,
[3:26:57] Speaker 1: it says, it's not the fault of skepticism and science
[3:27:00] Speaker 1: that your religious narrative has no evidence. Scientists are simply
[3:27:04] Speaker 1: following the evidence, unlike religion, which starts with the conclusion
[3:27:07] Speaker 1: and works back yeah. Religion is yeah. Religion starts with
[3:27:12] Speaker 1: the conclusion and then is seeking to find the evidence
[3:27:16] Speaker 1: supporting that conclusion. It's kind of like it's kind of
[3:27:20] Speaker 1: like remember when you, like you took your first writing class,
[3:27:22] Speaker 1: maybe in high school. They would say, you know, form
[3:27:26] Speaker 1: your hypothesis and your conclusion and then fill in the
[3:27:30] Speaker 1: supporting evidence for an argument. And it's basically what Christianity
[3:27:34] Speaker 1: is doing. They say, we got the hypothesis. Now we
[3:27:36] Speaker 1: just have to fill in the supporting paragraphs, and now
[3:27:38] Speaker 1: you've got a complete essay.
[3:27:43] Speaker 2: Jay.
[3:27:43] Speaker 1: I tried to pull you up again. I saw you
[3:27:45] Speaker 1: jump back in the box, but you didn't connect. We're
[3:27:47] Speaker 1: gonna keep on rolling, though, I mean, we're gonna do
[3:27:49] Speaker 1: what we can.
[3:27:51] Speaker 9: Is it your internet?
[3:27:52] Speaker 1: No, they just keep dropping. All right, We're gonna get
[3:27:56] Speaker 1: a ton to nash Tanashia. How close was I?
[3:28:11] Speaker 2: Hello?
[3:28:13] Speaker 1: I hear the news, ton.
[3:28:19] Speaker 9: Connect.
[3:28:20] Speaker 1: Did you get up here by accident?
[3:28:21] Speaker 5: Ton?
[3:28:22] Speaker 2: Hell?
[3:28:23] Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay, Well keep moving guys. While we're finding a guest,
[3:28:30] Speaker 1: please make sure you're following. Sarah and Ems both great
[3:28:33] Speaker 1: friends of mine. Both have channels here on TikTok. Also
[3:28:38] Speaker 1: join the discord. We've got a bunch of people offline
[3:28:41] Speaker 1: on the discord that you can dialogue with and deconstruct
[3:28:45] Speaker 1: with and ask questions and find resources. And I think
[3:28:48] Speaker 1: we finally got someone to connect. Iggy, thank you for
[3:28:51] Speaker 1: the super Checkigy says, Hey, Justin, would you be interested
[3:28:54] Speaker 1: in doing a topic on whether Christians should still be
[3:28:57] Speaker 1: Christians without the reward of Heaven? I mean, I think
[3:29:02] Speaker 1: it's a lovely concept. I love the concept. The problem
[3:29:06] Speaker 1: with some of these things is there it's such a
[3:29:08] Speaker 1: narrow topic that it's hard to turn it into a
[3:29:11] Speaker 1: five hour debate, you.
[3:29:13] Speaker 2: Know what I mean.
[3:29:16] Speaker 1: We lost our guy, we lost them. We're gonna get
[3:29:19] Speaker 1: somebody though. Let's get Desiree up in here. We'll see
[3:29:24] Speaker 1: if Desiree can connect. I'll read Adams superchet wile Desiree's
[3:29:27] Speaker 1: loading and says, can you give me a prophecy Jesus fulfilled?
[3:29:30] Speaker 1: Have you read the Old Testament?
[3:29:32] Speaker 2: No?
[3:29:32] Speaker 1: And no, but please read it to me so I
[3:29:34] Speaker 1: can explain how your atheist interpretation is wrong. That's basically it.
[3:29:39] Speaker 1: I've never read it, but I know your interpretation can't
[3:29:42] Speaker 1: be right because somebody else told me. Yep, Bobby again
[3:29:46] Speaker 1: with a super tech Thank you so much. When Christians
[3:29:48] Speaker 1: claim that the laws only applied to Israel, but their
[3:29:51] Speaker 1: own scriptures say that they were grafted onto Israel, they
[3:29:55] Speaker 1: should just show how ignorant they are of their own text.
[3:29:57] Speaker 1: I agree. The closest you're going to get it is
[3:30:00] Speaker 1: some of the later I'm going to call them reactions
[3:30:03] Speaker 1: in the New Testament. Have this idea that not all
[3:30:06] Speaker 1: of the law was supposed to be meant for the Gentiles,
[3:30:08] Speaker 1: but only for the Jews. And in Matthew, I'm sorry Mark,
[3:30:12] Speaker 1: chapter seven, there's this whole discourse on the washing of hands,
[3:30:18] Speaker 1: and Jesus, according to Mark, nullifies the food laws. I
[3:30:22] Speaker 1: just think Mark was wrong, though. I think Mark misunderstood
[3:30:24] Speaker 1: what Jesus was saying. But we've got hipster with us.
[3:30:27] Speaker 1: How you do in hipster?
[3:30:29] Speaker 6: Hey guys, how are you doing? Can you hear me?
[3:30:30] Speaker 6: All right?
[3:30:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, I can hear you.
[3:30:33] Speaker 2: Okay.
[3:30:34] Speaker 7: I am not a Christians. I just wanted to come
[3:30:38] Speaker 7: on here and say that.
[3:30:40] Speaker 2: For I was not raised in.
[3:30:43] Speaker 7: Any religion, so I am open convinced me. I've had
[3:30:48] Speaker 7: no church, I've gone to no place. I'm covered in
[3:30:51] Speaker 7: original sin, i haven't been baptized.
[3:30:54] Speaker 6: I'm open. There's some good arguments.
[3:30:56] Speaker 1: Try to swaye for sure. Yeah, I'm very I'm asking
[3:31:00] Speaker 1: for I'm bathing over here in the original.
[3:31:05] Speaker 6: I can't get rid of it.
[3:31:08] Speaker 7: But yeah, I've been watching a few lives and I've
[3:31:12] Speaker 7: been sitting in the chats being like these are terrible,
[3:31:15] Speaker 7: Like I would never choose to believe what you just said.
[3:31:19] Speaker 6: That would never slay me.
[3:31:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, as as a non believer, if these
[3:31:25] Speaker 1: were the best arguments you can come up with. I
[3:31:28] Speaker 1: don't think they're very persuasive arguments, and obviously they're not
[3:31:32] Speaker 1: going to persuade me, but I don't think they would
[3:31:33] Speaker 1: persuade anybody that was just like a run of the
[3:31:36] Speaker 1: mill non believer.
[3:31:38] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[3:31:39] Speaker 7: That's why I kind of wanted to come on, because
[3:31:41] Speaker 7: I think that a lot of them walk away and
[3:31:43] Speaker 7: they're like, well, no one's ever going to change his mind,
[3:31:46] Speaker 7: And I'm just like, guys, no indoctrination here.
[3:31:49] Speaker 6: No one's told me anything about anyone.
[3:31:51] Speaker 1: Right, bring me some truths. Yeah, see it. Well, we're
[3:31:56] Speaker 1: going to try to get somebody hipster. Have a good night,
[3:32:00] Speaker 1: great one, Claudia, thank you for the bubble gum. I
[3:32:04] Speaker 1: appreciate that. And we're going to keep rolling through the queue. Guy,
[3:32:07] Speaker 1: I think we've got a list of people now that
[3:32:10] Speaker 1: are none of them are new, so I'm going to
[3:32:14] Speaker 1: start grabbing people. Oh, we have one person that's new here.
[3:32:17] Speaker 1: I always try to prioritize guests that that haven't been
[3:32:19] Speaker 1: on the show yet. Hello Life for Yeshuah, Welcome in
[3:32:26] Speaker 1: what's so Life for Yeshua. Are you at least eighteen
[3:32:29] Speaker 1: and are you a believer?
[3:32:31] Speaker 2: Yes?
[3:32:32] Speaker 5: And I'm an Orthodox Christian Eastern Orthodox.
[3:32:35] Speaker 1: Sure?
[3:32:36] Speaker 3: Cool?
[3:32:36] Speaker 1: What be your best argument or your most convincing evidence
[3:32:39] Speaker 1: for the God of the Bible being real?
[3:32:43] Speaker 3: Well?
[3:32:44] Speaker 5: First off, do you mind if I do like a
[3:32:46] Speaker 5: classical apologist approach to this, where I prove the existence
[3:32:49] Speaker 5: of God and then further down the line through the
[3:32:52] Speaker 5: existence that it has to be the Christian God.
[3:32:55] Speaker 1: I mean, you're welcome to try, but you won't get
[3:32:56] Speaker 1: past number one.
[3:32:58] Speaker 5: Okay, So leo'ld say God's existence is essential and that
[3:33:03] Speaker 5: God is going to be like the necessary precondition to
[3:33:06] Speaker 5: like transcendentals.
[3:33:08] Speaker 1: Things like what group transcendentals exist?
[3:33:13] Speaker 6: Well?
[3:33:14] Speaker 5: Okay, so do you believe that if you pick out
[3:33:17] Speaker 5: an object, it is that object.
[3:33:18] Speaker 1: I don't think transcendentals exists, by the way, So you.
[3:33:23] Speaker 5: Do you disagree with all scientific studies?
[3:33:26] Speaker 3: Uh?
[3:33:26] Speaker 1: No, I agree with scientific studies.
[3:33:28] Speaker 2: You don't.
[3:33:29] Speaker 5: Scientific studies rely on the regularity of nature. So how
[3:33:32] Speaker 5: could you we're.
[3:33:33] Speaker 1: Talking about transcendental is not regularity?
[3:33:36] Speaker 5: Regularity in nature? Is it transcendental?
[3:33:38] Speaker 2: It's not?
[3:33:41] Speaker 5: So how is the regularity of nature not a transcendental physics.
[3:33:46] Speaker 5: Physics don't really exist within reality.
[3:33:48] Speaker 1: They're just nature is literally just repeatability or consistency of
[3:33:53] Speaker 1: something has nothing to do with it, whether or not
[3:33:55] Speaker 1: something is transcendental.
[3:33:57] Speaker 5: Okay, so it's caused barly Actually.
[3:33:59] Speaker 1: Material causality is a description of way things behave.
[3:34:04] Speaker 5: Okay, So I'm asking you if causality is going to
[3:34:06] Speaker 5: be something that materially exists.
[3:34:09] Speaker 1: No, cauity is not immaterially existing.
[3:34:13] Speaker 5: Do you understand the regularity of nature? I do, Yeah,
[3:34:17] Speaker 5: holds to causality.
[3:34:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, And causality is a description of the way nature behaves.
[3:34:22] Speaker 1: It's not a thing that exists.
[3:34:26] Speaker 5: So how can you Yeah, So how can you trust
[3:34:28] Speaker 5: scientific studies if it relies on something that doesn't materially exist?
[3:34:32] Speaker 5: You just blind you just blindly accept.
[3:34:35] Speaker 1: That science doesn't rely on transcendentals.
[3:34:38] Speaker 5: So scientific studies don't rely on causality.
[3:34:41] Speaker 1: They rely on causality. Causality is the way the universe behaves.
[3:34:45] Speaker 1: It is not a thing that exists transcend transcendentally. It
[3:34:48] Speaker 1: is a description. You're confusing the map for the place.
[3:34:54] Speaker 5: Again, I'm asking you why you would rely on such
[3:34:57] Speaker 5: a principle if it doesn't materially exist.
[3:35:00] Speaker 1: It doesn't have to materially exist for the concept to work.
[3:35:03] Speaker 5: I'm saying.
[3:35:07] Speaker 1: My worldview is that transcendentals don't exist. Yes, it's up
[3:35:11] Speaker 1: to you to demonstrate that transcendentals do exist.
[3:35:15] Speaker 5: I just explained to you something. I just explained to
[3:35:18] Speaker 5: you that causality is going to be transcendental.
[3:35:20] Speaker 1: Causality is not transcendental. Causality doesn't exist on its own.
[3:35:24] Speaker 1: It's just a description of the way the universe behaves.
[3:35:31] Speaker 5: So you don't agree. So do you find causality to
[3:35:35] Speaker 5: being material or do you think it's non physical?
[3:35:37] Speaker 1: It doesn't exist. It's not a thing that exists. It
[3:35:40] Speaker 1: is the way like the universe that we're in. It's
[3:35:44] Speaker 1: the way the universe behaves. It behaves in a way
[3:35:47] Speaker 1: in which the cause precedes the effect causality.
[3:35:55] Speaker 5: So so you you you hold to this principle so
[3:36:02] Speaker 5: heavily that scientific study that's like kind of the basis
[3:36:06] Speaker 5: is causality to accept certain principles. But yet you don't
[3:36:09] Speaker 5: think it exists.
[3:36:11] Speaker 1: No, it doesn't exist. It's a description of behavior.
[3:36:15] Speaker 5: So causality doesn't exist.
[3:36:17] Speaker 1: No, Causality is an abstract concept. Is a description of
[3:36:20] Speaker 1: the way things behave. It is not something that ex
[3:36:23] Speaker 1: What do you think trans transcendentally?
[3:36:29] Speaker 5: So what do you I want to understand? What do
[3:36:30] Speaker 5: you think of transcendental?
[3:36:31] Speaker 1: Is transcendental is something that exists outside of the mind
[3:36:34] Speaker 1: and is transcendental to all existence, Meaning even if all
[3:36:38] Speaker 1: human beings disappeared today, it would still exist.
[3:36:43] Speaker 5: So you think causality just wouldn't exist if we didn't exist.
[3:36:46] Speaker 1: Causality does not exist. The word causality is a description
[3:36:52] Speaker 1: of behavior. It doesn't actually exist.
[3:36:59] Speaker 5: So you don't think things have causal relationships.
[3:37:02] Speaker 1: They have causal relationships, but causality is not a thing
[3:37:06] Speaker 1: that exists. It's not a stuff. You can't touch it,
[3:37:09] Speaker 1: you can't see it, you can't feel it. It doesn't
[3:37:12] Speaker 1: actually exist.
[3:37:13] Speaker 5: It is a material.
[3:37:15] Speaker 1: It is a description of behavior.
[3:37:19] Speaker 5: So why would you hold to if it doesn't materially exist.
[3:37:23] Speaker 5: Why do you assume causality? I assume you assume causality
[3:37:27] Speaker 5: throughout your entire life. I assume that you drop a pencil,
[3:37:30] Speaker 5: hit the floor.
[3:37:30] Speaker 1: I assume that causes precede the effect. That's how the
[3:37:36] Speaker 1: universe behaves. You don't need to believe in transcendentals to
[3:37:40] Speaker 1: know that the universe.
[3:37:42] Speaker 5: Why would you assume that, I'm asking you why you red?
[3:37:44] Speaker 2: You assume because we.
[3:37:45] Speaker 1: Know it to be the case, so that we never
[3:37:49] Speaker 1: beg We've never seen an effect precede the cause.
[3:37:56] Speaker 5: So because you can empirically prove it?
[3:37:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, can you give me one instance where the effect
[3:38:02] Speaker 1: preceded the cause.
[3:38:04] Speaker 5: And you empirically proved empiricism? Like, what what do you
[3:38:09] Speaker 5: mean you derived truth from?
[3:38:11] Speaker 1: He's so stuck on his scripted talking points. Did you
[3:38:13] Speaker 1: actually hear what I said?
[3:38:15] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[3:38:16] Speaker 5: Hearing you and you say you derived the truth? Do
[3:38:18] Speaker 5: you believe physical you believe.
[3:38:20] Speaker 1: That there is an effect that precedes the cause of anything?
[3:38:25] Speaker 3: No?
[3:38:26] Speaker 1: Okay, so you and I agree, then all causes?
[3:38:29] Speaker 5: Yes, we agree that I'm saying. Okay, I'm saying, and
[3:38:31] Speaker 5: is that going to be irrational? Given your world view?
[3:38:34] Speaker 1: Is that the way the universe behaves?
[3:38:37] Speaker 5: Yes, we can both agree, but that is I'm saying,
[3:38:40] Speaker 5: given your world views that to be the case.
[3:38:43] Speaker 2: It does? Are you not hearing me? It does?
[3:38:45] Speaker 5: You don't understand the argument?
[3:38:46] Speaker 1: Yes, I'm sorry that you're to ask my argument.
[3:38:50] Speaker 5: My argument is, do you think I think that causality?
[3:38:53] Speaker 1: Doesn't that cause and effect is the way the universe behaves.
[3:38:57] Speaker 1: There's no such thing as cause and effect that actually
[3:39:00] Speaker 1: exists transcendentally.
[3:39:03] Speaker 5: So why would you hold to any scientific.
[3:39:05] Speaker 1: Study Because we know that cause and effect we know.
[3:39:09] Speaker 5: How do we know? That's begging the question because.
[3:39:12] Speaker 1: We've never observed anything ever, never.
[3:39:15] Speaker 5: You're just relying on.
[3:39:18] Speaker 1: We've never observed. We've never observed a cause preceding the effect. Now,
[3:39:23] Speaker 1: if you think that cause can proceed, I'm sorry, effects
[3:39:27] Speaker 1: can procede that.
[3:39:28] Speaker 5: Don't think that you're critiquing your world. I don't think
[3:39:31] Speaker 5: you understand.
[3:39:32] Speaker 1: You're not critiquing anything. You don't understand at all.
[3:39:35] Speaker 5: Well, you have yet to give me the foundation for causality.
[3:39:39] Speaker 1: There's no foundation. It's just the way the universe behaves.
[3:39:42] Speaker 1: Like you can describe the behavior of something without saying
[3:39:45] Speaker 1: that there's something causing the behavior to be that way.
[3:39:49] Speaker 5: Yeah, of course, I do believe you could hold to
[3:39:52] Speaker 5: your world. To you, I'm just saying it would be irrational.
[3:39:54] Speaker 1: It's not irrational. How is it irrational?
[3:39:57] Speaker 5: Because you kind of agreed that there's going to be this, like,
[3:39:59] Speaker 5: you know, visual principle that causality exists.
[3:40:02] Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's a universal principle. I'm saying that
[3:40:05] Speaker 1: is the way the universe behaves. There's no law making
[3:40:08] Speaker 1: it behave that way. There's nothing causing it to behave
[3:40:11] Speaker 1: that way. That is just the way it works. That's
[3:40:14] Speaker 1: the way the universe behaves. That it certainly could be
[3:40:18] Speaker 1: that when this world collapses and another one regenerates, that
[3:40:21] Speaker 1: there's a world in which effects can precede the cause.
[3:40:24] Speaker 1: What I'm saying is, in the world we live in,
[3:40:26] Speaker 1: we've never observed an effect to precede the cause.
[3:40:30] Speaker 5: That's just going to be relying on empiricism. But you
[3:40:33] Speaker 5: can empirically, that's all you have. Empiricism, that's all you can.
[3:40:36] Speaker 5: You empirically improve prove empiricism.
[3:40:39] Speaker 1: Well, empiricism is not a thing to be proven. First
[3:40:41] Speaker 1: of all, that's your first problem. So all these really
[3:40:44] Speaker 1: dumb darth awken gotcha questions don't work on me. I've
[3:40:47] Speaker 1: already heard them.
[3:40:48] Speaker 2: So you.
[3:40:50] Speaker 5: Hold to the idea that you can empirically.
[3:40:53] Speaker 1: That all empiricism is not a thing to be proven.
[3:40:57] Speaker 1: Empiricism is a process. It's a signific process that we
[3:41:01] Speaker 1: engage in by looking at the world around us and
[3:41:03] Speaker 1: saying this is how it seems to behave and then
[3:41:08] Speaker 1: if we find something later that contradicts that said Listen,
[3:41:10] Speaker 1: we thought it behaved a particular way, but it actually
[3:41:12] Speaker 1: behaves a different way on these particular occasions, then we
[3:41:15] Speaker 1: would change our empirical observations.
[3:41:20] Speaker 5: Again, my argument isn't that empiricism isn't practically useful. My
[3:41:24] Speaker 5: argument is that holding to the idea of empiricism would
[3:41:27] Speaker 5: be irrational because it would be special pleading. Yet you're
[3:41:33] Speaker 5: saying you can derive all truth from Pierceism, So you.
[3:41:40] Speaker 1: Keep assuming things in my worldview that I don't have.
[3:41:44] Speaker 5: So how do you think you derive truth?
[3:41:45] Speaker 1: I think causality exists because time exists.
[3:41:49] Speaker 5: Are you not going to answer my question?
[3:41:50] Speaker 1: I literally just answered your first question before you went
[3:41:52] Speaker 1: onto the next.
[3:41:53] Speaker 5: Great time is just going to be another thing that
[3:41:55] Speaker 5: you can prove.
[3:41:55] Speaker 1: Causality exists because time exists. Yea, if time didn't exist,
[3:41:58] Speaker 1: then there would be no thing has caused and effect.
[3:42:01] Speaker 1: Everything would be happening all at once.
[3:42:04] Speaker 5: Okay, how can you prove time.
[3:42:07] Speaker 1: Because if there was no time, everything would be happening
[3:42:10] Speaker 1: all at once. Time is a thing that makes a
[3:42:12] Speaker 1: moment a moment.
[3:42:15] Speaker 5: Okay, So you hold the time? How could so? Do
[3:42:18] Speaker 5: you holds you infinite?
[3:42:19] Speaker 1: Do you think that time exs?
[3:42:20] Speaker 5: You hold an infinite past?
[3:42:21] Speaker 2: Yes? I do.
[3:42:22] Speaker 1: Do you think that time exists?
[3:42:24] Speaker 2: Yes?
[3:42:24] Speaker 5: I imaginatique of your own worldview. Imagine you don't understand
[3:42:29] Speaker 5: my argument.
[3:42:29] Speaker 1: Imagine believing time exists. I love it. How so he
[3:42:32] Speaker 1: came up saying he's going to prove God exists.
[3:42:35] Speaker 5: Like you don't understand a critique of your own worldview.
[3:42:37] Speaker 1: I hold to his argument for why his God exists
[3:42:40] Speaker 1: is he doesn't like my worldview. Notice how your argument
[3:42:44] Speaker 1: for why your God exists is now burden shifted. You've
[3:42:48] Speaker 1: said no. What you've done is he said I don't
[3:42:52] Speaker 1: He said, I actually don't like your worldview. And because
[3:42:55] Speaker 1: I don't like your worldview, mine is true by default.
[3:42:58] Speaker 1: But even if my worldview was wrong, even if science
[3:43:01] Speaker 1: was wrong, you still haven't supported the idea that your
[3:43:04] Speaker 1: God needs to exist somehow. So that's the actually the
[3:43:07] Speaker 1: argument I'm waiting for.
[3:43:09] Speaker 5: Again Again, the tag argument is just going to be
[3:43:12] Speaker 5: proven paradigm via paradigm. Right, it's going to be a
[3:43:15] Speaker 5: reductio Adam Surtim argument. If you can't give me this
[3:43:17] Speaker 5: epistemal epistemology. That's not going to be circulating.
[3:43:20] Speaker 1: I love these and it doesn't philosophy one on one guys.
[3:43:25] Speaker 5: Okay, I mean you could throw all the you could.
[3:43:28] Speaker 1: Throw all the I'm still waiting.
[3:43:30] Speaker 5: It's actually refute the argument.
[3:43:32] Speaker 1: Still waiting for the argument that transcendentals exist as premise
[3:43:35] Speaker 1: number one of your argument. You fail to support the
[3:43:38] Speaker 1: first premise of your argument.
[3:43:40] Speaker 5: When I try to engage to whether your transcendentals exist
[3:43:44] Speaker 5: or not, you keep on appealing to the idea that
[3:43:47] Speaker 5: it that certain principles like causality can only be empirically derived.
[3:43:52] Speaker 2: Correct.
[3:43:53] Speaker 1: How do you know that causality is?
[3:43:55] Speaker 2: Okay?
[3:43:56] Speaker 5: Sorry, you're not going to answer that.
[3:43:58] Speaker 1: I've already answered.
[3:43:59] Speaker 2: You're going to question.
[3:44:00] Speaker 1: The only thing we have is our powers of observation
[3:44:03] Speaker 1: and our powers of thinking. Those are methods of empiricism.
[3:44:07] Speaker 1: If you think that you have a method that is
[3:44:10] Speaker 1: outside of empiricism, then you'd have to demonstrate that that
[3:44:13] Speaker 1: method exists and should be trusted.
[3:44:15] Speaker 5: Again, I'm not saying that empiricism doesn't work practically. I'm
[3:44:18] Speaker 5: saying to anyone that would hold to the idea of empiricism,
[3:44:21] Speaker 5: the worldview would collapse.
[3:44:23] Speaker 1: Not in the least. So I'm still asking for you
[3:44:26] Speaker 1: to demonstrate that transcendentals actually exist, and it seems like
[3:44:30] Speaker 1: you actually can't do that, so you actually keep burden
[3:44:34] Speaker 1: shifting away from the transcendental argument. I'm asking for the
[3:44:39] Speaker 1: evidence that transcendentals exist.
[3:44:44] Speaker 5: Right, And when I engage with you and you agree
[3:44:46] Speaker 5: that there's a certain universal principle that exists, and I
[3:44:49] Speaker 5: ask you, how do you know that universal principle exists?
[3:44:52] Speaker 5: You rely, I didn't say that again the form of empiricism.
[3:44:55] Speaker 1: I didn't care you keep lying. I didn't say that
[3:44:57] Speaker 1: there's a universal principle.
[3:45:01] Speaker 5: Do you? So you agree that causality we observe causality?
[3:45:07] Speaker 1: Correct, Yes, I'm saying all the information we have demonstrates
[3:45:12] Speaker 1: that the effect always comes after the cause. We refer
[3:45:16] Speaker 1: to this as causality. And the reason why things have
[3:45:20] Speaker 1: a causality is because time exists, and time separates one
[3:45:24] Speaker 1: thing from another. It's the thing that allows.
[3:45:26] Speaker 5: Action another thing. Okay, how do you prove time?
[3:45:31] Speaker 1: You already agree both of us agree that time exists.
[3:45:35] Speaker 5: I don't have to agree exists. I'm saying it wouldn't
[3:45:38] Speaker 5: make sense.
[3:45:39] Speaker 1: So you and I both agree that time exists, which
[3:45:42] Speaker 1: means neither one of us has to support the premise
[3:45:45] Speaker 1: that time exists.
[3:45:46] Speaker 5: Do you understand I'm saying, giving your worldview time would
[3:45:50] Speaker 5: be irrational.
[3:45:50] Speaker 1: For it too, it would not.
[3:45:52] Speaker 5: Okay, So what is time or how do you prove time?
[3:45:56] Speaker 1: How do you how do you prove time?
[3:46:00] Speaker 5: I would say, because I observe it, I would make
[3:46:03] Speaker 5: the principle of time would makes sense. You are you
[3:46:08] Speaker 5: just going to interrupt me before?
[3:46:11] Speaker 1: You just said you can't trust impiricism, So now you
[3:46:13] Speaker 1: can trust empiricism all of a sudden when it's improving time.
[3:46:16] Speaker 5: An observation doesn't necessarily imply in piricism, right, because I
[3:46:20] Speaker 5: don't hold to the world that every truth value can
[3:46:22] Speaker 5: be derived from empiricism.
[3:46:25] Speaker 1: Imagine going to school to study philosophy to get cook
[3:46:27] Speaker 1: by a guy that took one philosophy.
[3:46:29] Speaker 5: Like you're not listening. It's like you're not listening. Okay.
[3:46:32] Speaker 5: I agree that time exists because you can observe it,
[3:46:35] Speaker 5: But the idea, the principle of time could the reason
[3:46:39] Speaker 5: why we observe time to be consistent is because there's
[3:46:41] Speaker 5: a necessary precondition of a mind outside of space and time.
[3:46:46] Speaker 5: Keep it regularly. I'm trying to I'm using reductive ad
[3:46:50] Speaker 5: absurd them.
[3:46:51] Speaker 1: So you're saying you don't like my worldview, so your
[3:46:54] Speaker 1: worldview is true by default. I'm asking you to demonstrate them.
[3:46:57] Speaker 5: Would you agree that of your world you either believe
[3:47:00] Speaker 5: in a god or you believe.
[3:47:02] Speaker 1: In your world of view you believe in transcendentals. That's
[3:47:04] Speaker 1: the basis of your argument so far, and the basis
[3:47:07] Speaker 1: of your argument has failed. So I'm not going to
[3:47:10] Speaker 1: let you pivot from the transcendental argument until you just concede.
[3:47:13] Speaker 1: You can't actually famish, finish the premises and get to
[3:47:15] Speaker 1: the conclusion.
[3:47:20] Speaker 5: Again. Do you agree that you either believe in a
[3:47:22] Speaker 5: God or you don't believe.
[3:47:23] Speaker 1: In againtless pivots. No, some people don't. Don't have a
[3:47:26] Speaker 1: claim on that.
[3:47:31] Speaker 5: Okay, but that's not it's a binary option, right that obe.
[3:47:37] Speaker 1: Some people are some people are undecided.
[3:47:40] Speaker 5: Are you going to listen to me?
[3:47:41] Speaker 1: I'm going to listen to you. I need you actually
[3:47:43] Speaker 1: listen to my answer. Child. Some people don't have an
[3:47:47] Speaker 1: opinion on whether or not God exists.
[3:47:50] Speaker 5: Okay, but it's still a binary option. If you hold
[3:47:53] Speaker 5: a pencil in front of you, it's either a pencil
[3:47:56] Speaker 5: or not a pencil. Correct.
[3:47:58] Speaker 1: In real life, you ask me what people believe.
[3:48:02] Speaker 5: Okay, you rather believe it's a pencil or not a pencil.
[3:48:04] Speaker 1: Correct, Right, that's what I'm saying. Your belief is.
[3:48:07] Speaker 5: Not it's a binary choice, just just because somebody refuses
[3:48:11] Speaker 5: to answer the question.
[3:48:12] Speaker 1: Right. I try this again. When you're talking about what
[3:48:14] Speaker 1: people believe believe, beliefs are not binary choices. Now, it
[3:48:20] Speaker 1: might be true that the answer in reality could be binary,
[3:48:25] Speaker 1: but we're talking about what people believe. It's not binary
[3:48:28] Speaker 1: because somebody can always say I don't know.
[3:48:33] Speaker 5: But that would just not be an answer.
[3:48:34] Speaker 1: It would Yeah, I don't know is an answer.
[3:48:39] Speaker 5: So if if you hold a pencil in front of you,
[3:48:42] Speaker 5: is it a pencil or not a pencil?
[3:48:45] Speaker 1: I believe there's a pencil, but some people might.
[3:48:48] Speaker 5: Somebody else to reject the question.
[3:48:49] Speaker 1: Does that change every question reality that you answer them.
[3:48:53] Speaker 5: I'm not answer is somebody who holds a pencil in
[3:48:57] Speaker 5: front it's either a pencil or not a pencil. If
[3:48:59] Speaker 5: you just refuse to answer that question, you're not engaging
[3:49:02] Speaker 5: with reality, right.
[3:49:03] Speaker 1: But you're talking about things that don't exist and have
[3:49:05] Speaker 1: no proof. Right, So when you talk about the God concept,
[3:49:09] Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who don't know if God exists.
[3:49:13] Speaker 1: It's not a binary decision for everybody. You're not holding
[3:49:17] Speaker 1: a God in front of their face and saying, is
[3:49:19] Speaker 1: this God. You're saying this thing, we have no evidence for,
[3:49:22] Speaker 1: this thing, we have no proof for. Do you believe
[3:49:24] Speaker 1: it exists? Some people say yes, some people say no,
[3:49:27] Speaker 1: some people would be in between.
[3:49:31] Speaker 5: Okay, so let's say say the premise God exists, what
[3:49:34] Speaker 5: would be the opposite of that God doesn't exist?
[3:49:36] Speaker 3: Correct?
[3:49:37] Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe God? And then somebody says, maybe God exists.
[3:49:42] Speaker 5: Is maybe God exists a truth claim?
[3:49:45] Speaker 1: No, it is their belief exactly. That's what you asked me, dumb, dumb,
[3:49:51] Speaker 1: you ask me about what people believe and believing something
[3:49:55] Speaker 1: is not a binary choice. I've said it three times. Reality,
[3:50:00] Speaker 1: he may have a binary choice, but what people believe
[3:50:03] Speaker 1: is not binary.
[3:50:06] Speaker 5: So you don't you don't think atheism and theism are
[3:50:10] Speaker 5: binary choices.
[3:50:11] Speaker 1: They are binary choices in reality, but that doesn't mean
[3:50:15] Speaker 1: that a person believes binarily. They could be in the middle,
[3:50:20] Speaker 1: they could not know, they could.
[3:50:22] Speaker 5: Not have thought about it, but that wouldn't be a
[3:50:24] Speaker 5: truth claim.
[3:50:25] Speaker 1: I never said anyone's making a truth claim. He's getting When.
[3:50:31] Speaker 5: You're asserting God exists or God it doesn't exist, that's
[3:50:33] Speaker 5: a truth claim.
[3:50:34] Speaker 2: Correct.
[3:50:36] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, if you're making if you come out and say, listen,
[3:50:38] Speaker 1: God does not exist, that would be a claim. Now
[3:50:42] Speaker 1: if you said I don't only if you said I
[3:50:45] Speaker 1: don't believe. If you said I don't believe God exists,
[3:50:49] Speaker 1: that's not a truth claim. That's just a statement of Okay.
[3:50:52] Speaker 5: Okay, I see what you're saying. Okay, God exists or
[3:50:55] Speaker 5: God doesn't. God exists or God doesn't exist. Is that
[3:50:57] Speaker 5: a binary Yeah?
[3:50:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, that question is a binary choice. The God either
[3:51:02] Speaker 1: exists or he doesn't exist.
[3:51:05] Speaker 5: So if you prove the idea that any worldview under
[3:51:08] Speaker 5: God doesn't exist to be false, wouldn't necessarily imply God
[3:51:11] Speaker 5: existing to.
[3:51:14] Speaker 1: No, it would you still have to You'd have to.
[3:51:21] Speaker 1: You would have to disprove every variety of atheism possible.
[3:51:26] Speaker 2: You can do it.
[3:51:27] Speaker 5: That's what I'm the only that's what the tag argument does.
[3:51:31] Speaker 1: The only it doesn't do that at all. A tag
[3:51:35] Speaker 1: transidentals as evidence for the God, which you fail to
[3:51:39] Speaker 1: do what you're attempting to do.
[3:51:40] Speaker 5: When you fail to engage what you're saying.
[3:51:42] Speaker 1: Well, what you're attempting to do is say, if your
[3:51:47] Speaker 1: worldview doesn't make sense, then my worldview is true by default.
[3:51:51] Speaker 1: But that's not actually the case. It's still up to
[3:51:54] Speaker 1: you to defend your worldview with evidence. And the closest
[3:51:58] Speaker 1: thing you have far is transcendentals exist. But I disagree
[3:52:04] Speaker 1: transcendentals don't exist. I have no reason to believe they exist.
[3:52:07] Speaker 1: So I'm asking you on that point. So I'm still
[3:52:11] Speaker 1: asking you to support premise number one. And remember this
[3:52:15] Speaker 1: is a two part conversation. You're going to prove God
[3:52:17] Speaker 1: exists and then you're going to prove that it's your God.
[3:52:20] Speaker 1: And you can't even get past premise number one of
[3:52:22] Speaker 1: argument number one.
[3:52:24] Speaker 5: Because when you're making a circular argument, So how would
[3:52:27] Speaker 5: that be possible.
[3:52:27] Speaker 1: It's not circular demonstrates that.
[3:52:31] Speaker 5: Exists because they exist demonstra Okay, would you agree? You agree?
[3:52:38] Speaker 5: Causalities is something we observe correct.
[3:52:40] Speaker 1: Causality is a description of the way the material world behaves.
[3:52:45] Speaker 1: It is not a thing that exists. We've already been
[3:52:48] Speaker 1: over it.
[3:52:49] Speaker 5: I just said, I I said, do you hold, Let's
[3:52:53] Speaker 5: try this again.
[3:52:54] Speaker 1: The argument is not going to help you. Do you
[3:52:56] Speaker 1: have a better argument, because I'm going to give you
[3:52:58] Speaker 1: the same answer over and over again.
[3:53:02] Speaker 5: You said because of time, and then I'm asking your
[3:53:05] Speaker 5: time works. He's still stuck on it or something. How
[3:53:09] Speaker 5: can you prove that you can observe time?
[3:53:11] Speaker 1: You and I both agree that time exists. Nobody has
[3:53:13] Speaker 1: to prove it.
[3:53:16] Speaker 5: I don't understand saying given your worldview. I'm saying, given
[3:53:19] Speaker 5: your worldview, wouldn't make sense told to that time is
[3:53:22] Speaker 5: an observable thing. Do you not understand the argument?
[3:53:25] Speaker 2: Why?
[3:53:25] Speaker 1: Why would my worldview negate time existing.
[3:53:29] Speaker 5: Because there wouldn't be something prior to this this I
[3:53:35] Speaker 5: know there's nothing phenomenon that we see in nature, there's.
[3:53:40] Speaker 1: Nothing prior to time. Time has always existed.
[3:53:46] Speaker 5: So you're saying, if it passed, do you want to
[3:53:49] Speaker 5: go down that road?
[3:53:50] Speaker 1: I do, yeah, because your next argument is that infinite
[3:53:53] Speaker 1: regresses don't exist, and you're wrong on that one, and
[3:53:55] Speaker 1: you're also wrong that time could.
[3:53:57] Speaker 5: Be regress exists.
[3:53:59] Speaker 1: Prove that they can't.
[3:54:01] Speaker 5: You hold to the position that infinite regress exists. I'm
[3:54:04] Speaker 5: asking you to.
[3:54:05] Speaker 9: Prove your entire defense is telling justin that his worldview
[3:54:12] Speaker 9: doesn't make sense to you. You have not demonstrated.
[3:54:16] Speaker 5: Anyhow when I asked you a question.
[3:54:18] Speaker 1: You know, he's such a child. He can't actually engage
[3:54:22] Speaker 1: in any argumentation in defense of his position.
[3:54:25] Speaker 9: The only argument he has is to try to tear
[3:54:28] Speaker 9: your argument down.
[3:54:29] Speaker 2: But it's.
[3:54:33] Speaker 1: Not about It's called burden shifting because you're a coward.
[3:54:38] Speaker 1: You can't actually support the premises of your own argumentation.
[3:54:41] Speaker 5: A reductio is a valid argument.
[3:54:43] Speaker 1: You're not doing a reductio, You're doing a more worthy guy.
[3:54:48] Speaker 5: The whole process is going to be how am I
[3:54:52] Speaker 5: doing your God of the gaps?
[3:54:54] Speaker 1: Because you're saying, if your worldview has some error in it,
[3:54:57] Speaker 1: I'm just going to insert God into that air. And
[3:55:02] Speaker 1: there's no reason to believe that the time couldn't exist forever.
[3:55:08] Speaker 1: It doesn't violate any laws of the universe, doesn't violate
[3:55:11] Speaker 1: any laws. Logically, there's no reason why it couldn't give.
[3:55:16] Speaker 5: Me the P and O, P, P and P would
[3:55:21] Speaker 5: be the idea that you wild to that all these
[3:55:25] Speaker 5: observable things right, they you see that they're consistent and
[3:55:29] Speaker 5: they work correct.
[3:55:31] Speaker 1: You're going back to cause outy again.
[3:55:34] Speaker 5: Yeah, because you have You're just circular. You're saying, therefore
[3:55:39] Speaker 5: it exists.
[3:55:39] Speaker 1: Wild how they can't actually get off their script? Want
[3:55:42] Speaker 1: me to give you a premise base argument for why
[3:55:44] Speaker 1: your God didn't create time, sir. Premise number one is
[3:55:51] Speaker 1: any act of creation is a change of states?
[3:55:54] Speaker 5: Agree, change of states?
[3:55:59] Speaker 1: Will?
[3:56:00] Speaker 5: I wouldn't agree with that. What would be a state?
[3:56:02] Speaker 5: Prior to all states? Any actions do existence?
[3:56:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, if something is created, there's a state in which
[3:56:11] Speaker 1: it exists, in a state in which it does not exist, right?
[3:56:15] Speaker 5: Ma?
[3:56:15] Speaker 2: Sure?
[3:56:16] Speaker 1: Cool? So all acts of creation are a change of state?
[3:56:20] Speaker 5: Yes, Well, I would say that this to say that
[3:56:26] Speaker 5: there's a state of non existence. I wouldn't understand what
[3:56:29] Speaker 5: that means.
[3:56:30] Speaker 1: You don't understand what it means to not exist?
[3:56:35] Speaker 5: No, I mean, how could you prove that non existence?
[3:56:38] Speaker 1: You exist before your your mother birthed you.
[3:56:43] Speaker 5: Yeah, but I wouldn't say necessarily do.
[3:56:45] Speaker 1: You understand non existence? Okay?
[3:56:49] Speaker 5: Yeah, But I wouldn't say it's a state.
[3:56:51] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a state of non existence.
[3:56:54] Speaker 5: I would say that for particular things, but not to
[3:56:56] Speaker 5: prior to every single thing.
[3:56:59] Speaker 1: I'm not asking about every single thing. I'm asking about time,
[3:57:02] Speaker 1: And the argument is about time. Okay, So any act
[3:57:05] Speaker 1: of creation, meaning something goes from not existing to existing
[3:57:09] Speaker 1: is a change of states, right, sir, Cool, any change
[3:57:14] Speaker 1: of states has a before state in an after state. U.
[3:57:21] Speaker 5: Sure, I'll just go down through this. Fegu means see
[3:57:23] Speaker 5: what I disagree with?
[3:57:24] Speaker 1: Sure, I mean if it doesn't have it before in
[3:57:27] Speaker 1: an after state, that means it wasn't created. It means
[3:57:29] Speaker 1: it always existed. So you have to agree to it.
[3:57:32] Speaker 2: Okay, Cool.
[3:57:34] Speaker 1: Premise number three says anything with it before and an
[3:57:38] Speaker 1: after state requires time obviously implied by before and after.
[3:57:48] Speaker 5: No, I wouldn't hold to that.
[3:57:49] Speaker 1: Okay, So then premise number two was that every change
[3:57:53] Speaker 1: of state has a before state in an after state.
[3:57:56] Speaker 5: Yeah, but I wouldn't say that in ne sissa states time.
[3:57:59] Speaker 1: I'm talking about any act of creation, no matter what
[3:58:02] Speaker 1: the creation is, it requires a state in which something
[3:58:05] Speaker 1: existed in a state in which it didn't exist, right.
[3:58:09] Speaker 5: Right, But I wouldn't hold you that time has to Sorry,
[3:58:14] Speaker 5: I wouldn't say that time has to be necessary for this.
[3:58:18] Speaker 1: So you can have a before in and after without time.
[3:58:21] Speaker 5: If there's nothing, how can time exist?
[3:58:23] Speaker 2: Right?
[3:58:23] Speaker 5: Time is going to be a measurement of motion.
[3:58:25] Speaker 1: Correct, I'm saying Can you have a before in and
[3:58:28] Speaker 1: after without time?
[3:58:33] Speaker 2: No?
[3:58:34] Speaker 5: I guess no, There we go.
[3:58:35] Speaker 1: So if there's a before state in an after state,
[3:58:38] Speaker 1: something going from nothing to something, then there must be
[3:58:41] Speaker 1: time because there's a before and and after.
[3:58:43] Speaker 2: Right.
[3:58:46] Speaker 5: Well, if you're saying that complete total non existence, there's
[3:58:49] Speaker 5: no time because time is the measurement.
[3:58:51] Speaker 1: Either one of us believe in complete nothingness. Why you
[3:58:56] Speaker 1: keep I don't know why you keep moving to this.
[3:58:58] Speaker 1: You don't believe in nothing as in neither?
[3:58:59] Speaker 2: Why?
[3:59:05] Speaker 5: I would just say time wouldn't exist prior? In non existence,
[3:59:09] Speaker 5: time doesn't exist.
[3:59:10] Speaker 1: What is prior to time? When you just invoke time
[3:59:12] Speaker 1: when you can't use the word prior, prior is a
[3:59:15] Speaker 1: time connotation?
[3:59:18] Speaker 5: Yeah? Sorry, I would say in non existence, time doesn't exist.
[3:59:22] Speaker 1: Again, you don't believe in non existence?
[3:59:28] Speaker 5: Well, I guess I'm talking in a material sense.
[3:59:31] Speaker 1: In my worldview, I don't believe in non existence and
[3:59:33] Speaker 1: neither to you. You're arguing somebody's worldview that's not here.
[3:59:38] Speaker 5: Yeah, I just said, are we talking about time as
[3:59:42] Speaker 5: in referring to emotion?
[3:59:45] Speaker 2: No?
[3:59:47] Speaker 5: But what is time?
[3:59:48] Speaker 1: Time is a thing. Understand what time is the thing
[3:59:50] Speaker 1: that makes motion possible?
[3:59:53] Speaker 2: So what is time.
[3:59:54] Speaker 5: Time is a measurement of what.
[3:59:56] Speaker 1: Time is the measurement of any two we'll call it moment.
[4:00:02] Speaker 1: It's the thing that allows like events to transpire rather
[4:00:06] Speaker 1: than things happening all at once.
[4:00:12] Speaker 5: So how would you, yeah, how would you measure time?
[4:00:15] Speaker 1: We're doing it right now. You know what a clock is.
[4:00:21] Speaker 5: I'm I'm asking you how you would measure time.
[4:00:27] Speaker 1: Between events?
[4:00:33] Speaker 2: Do you know?
[4:00:34] Speaker 5: So you understand how time is defined?
[4:00:36] Speaker 1: Like scientists, time is defined by taking something that is
[4:00:41] Speaker 1: tangible and making a measurement between two tangible things.
[4:00:50] Speaker 5: Exactly. So if there's something that's not well, no, it
[4:00:55] Speaker 5: wouldn't be tangible. It was you, So you think tangible.
[4:01:04] Speaker 5: So it only exists in our our mind.
[4:01:08] Speaker 1: That's not what tangible means.
[4:01:13] Speaker 5: I thought tangible. It's like you can conceive of its existence.
[4:01:17] Speaker 1: No, that's called imaginary. That's what your god is. Tangible
[4:01:20] Speaker 1: means that it's accessible.
[4:01:23] Speaker 5: Touch. Okay, yes, yes, okay, okay.
[4:01:30] Speaker 1: So easy enough. Anything that has created.
[4:01:34] Speaker 5: A non existence perceptible by touch.
[4:01:38] Speaker 1: Anything that has creation has a change of states. Anything
[4:01:41] Speaker 1: that has a change says a before state in an
[4:01:43] Speaker 1: after state. We agree, so far right, Okay? Can you
[4:01:47] Speaker 1: have a before state? In an after state without time.
[4:01:55] Speaker 5: No, I mean I guess no, it wouldn't have it
[4:01:58] Speaker 5: before state because there would be.
[4:01:59] Speaker 1: No time exactly, There would be no before state, which
[4:02:02] Speaker 1: means the thing that would have always existed.
[4:02:07] Speaker 5: So that gives you no to the because time is
[4:02:10] Speaker 5: a measurement of things that are tangible.
[4:02:11] Speaker 1: Correct, No, that's how we track time. That's not what
[4:02:15] Speaker 1: time is.
[4:02:19] Speaker 5: What would be time?
[4:02:21] Speaker 1: Time is the thing that separates any two moments.
[4:02:26] Speaker 5: And how would you separate those moments.
[4:02:28] Speaker 1: By looking at something tangible?
[4:02:32] Speaker 5: So tangible exists? Correct?
[4:02:35] Speaker 1: We generally agree that things that are tangible are in existence.
[4:02:38] Speaker 5: Yes, therefore time doesn't exist. It does in non existence,
[4:02:43] Speaker 5: it does. You just said the way we understand time
[4:02:49] Speaker 5: is through a separation of moments given a tangible thing.
[4:02:53] Speaker 2: Correct.
[4:02:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the way we are able to measure it.
[4:02:57] Speaker 1: But even if we couldn't measure it, we have reasons
[4:03:00] Speaker 1: to believe that time exists. Is the thing that separates
[4:03:05] Speaker 1: any two moments is also interact.
[4:03:08] Speaker 5: How would you see that separation.
[4:03:09] Speaker 1: Also interwoven with space? There's this thing called space time.
[4:03:16] Speaker 5: I just asked you how you would separate those moments.
[4:03:20] Speaker 1: By observing the tangible world.
[4:03:24] Speaker 5: Therefore, the only way you can separate moments is through
[4:03:27] Speaker 5: tangible things. Correct.
[4:03:29] Speaker 1: The only way you can track time is by observing
[4:03:34] Speaker 1: the world around you.
[4:03:35] Speaker 5: You just said time is measured, or you understand time
[4:03:39] Speaker 5: to be I didn't say that the discrepancy of two
[4:03:42] Speaker 5: different moments. Correct.
[4:03:43] Speaker 1: No, time is a thing that separates the moments exactly.
[4:03:47] Speaker 5: And I said, how do you know it separates moments?
[4:03:50] Speaker 5: Or how would you distinct the separation of moments? And
[4:03:52] Speaker 5: then you said through tangible things?
[4:03:54] Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. How do we measure the separation between moments.
[4:03:58] Speaker 5: To tangible things?
[4:04:01] Speaker 1: Yes, it does.
[4:04:03] Speaker 5: You are explaining to me time. Correct what you said,
[4:04:07] Speaker 5: it's a separation of two moments.
[4:04:09] Speaker 1: Correct, I'm saying the way I'm.
[4:04:10] Speaker 5: Asking you how you separate those two moments? And you
[4:04:13] Speaker 5: say through tangible things.
[4:04:14] Speaker 1: That's not what I said.
[4:04:17] Speaker 5: The way that you separates.
[4:04:19] Speaker 1: Your question was how do you measure time? I said
[4:04:22] Speaker 1: time is measured by looking at two different moments of
[4:04:26] Speaker 1: a tangible thing.
[4:04:29] Speaker 5: I just asked, how do you separate moments with time?
[4:04:33] Speaker 5: Or how do you understand the separation of.
[4:04:34] Speaker 1: Moments because they're not happening all at once?
[4:04:40] Speaker 5: How would you how would you understand that to be.
[4:04:44] Speaker 1: True, because otherwise this conversation wouldn't be possible because the
[4:04:48] Speaker 1: events happening in this conversation are happening in time things.
[4:04:53] Speaker 1: If something happening in this conversation wasn't happening in time,
[4:04:57] Speaker 1: it would be happening all at once, which means we
[4:04:59] Speaker 1: could actually have a conversation.
[4:05:04] Speaker 5: Okay, I agree with that. I agree we understand time
[4:05:07] Speaker 5: through tangible things, and that's actually the definition of what
[4:05:11] Speaker 5: time is going to be. It's not that's how we
[4:05:14] Speaker 5: separate you. I just asked you, how do we How
[4:05:16] Speaker 5: do you understand that time is not happening happening all
[4:05:19] Speaker 5: at once? And you appeal to this idea is because
[4:05:22] Speaker 5: we see the difference of moments of using tangible things.
[4:05:28] Speaker 2: Right.
[4:05:28] Speaker 5: You gave this conversation as an example, and I'm saying, yes,
[4:05:32] Speaker 5: I agree time is a contingent on tangible things.
[4:05:36] Speaker 1: It's not.
[4:05:38] Speaker 5: Then what then? Give me what would distinct I don't.
[4:05:42] Speaker 1: Know how many times I just say everyone in the
[4:05:44] Speaker 1: audience gets it. Time is measured using tangible things. It
[4:05:50] Speaker 1: is not dependent on the things.
[4:05:58] Speaker 5: And I'm asking you you, okay, so you say time
[4:06:00] Speaker 5: to the separation of two moments.
[4:06:02] Speaker 1: Correct, Time is a thing that separates the moments. It's
[4:06:06] Speaker 1: the thing, yes, that causes the moments.
[4:06:08] Speaker 9: How you separate them?
[4:06:09] Speaker 2: I'm going to die.
[4:06:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, I've never seen.
[4:06:11] Speaker 2: I'm asking you.
[4:06:14] Speaker 5: How you could understand that separation, literally, that separation.
[4:06:18] Speaker 1: Talking to to like a grown adult here that doesn't
[4:06:21] Speaker 1: understand the nature of time.
[4:06:23] Speaker 9: Like, dude, you both agree time happens, so just say
[4:06:27] Speaker 9: yes and let's move on to the next premise. Like
[4:06:29] Speaker 9: you both agree.
[4:06:30] Speaker 5: I agree time exists. I'm just saying it's contingent on
[4:06:33] Speaker 5: tangible things. And he doesn't agree, And I'm asking him
[4:06:36] Speaker 5: what would.
[4:06:36] Speaker 9: Be the because understand them and depend are the same thing,
[4:06:42] Speaker 9: and they're not.
[4:06:43] Speaker 2: You can't.
[4:06:43] Speaker 5: He can't show me without using a tangible thing, how
[4:06:46] Speaker 5: two moments can be separate.
[4:06:48] Speaker 1: How could I show you something if it was invisible.
[4:06:53] Speaker 5: That's my whole point exactly. You can't prove time without
[4:06:56] Speaker 5: using too tangible.
[4:06:57] Speaker 1: Things can because when you have little things, those tangible
[4:07:02] Speaker 1: things are separated by time in two moments the same reason,
[4:07:08] Speaker 1: like this conversation is happening and it wasn't happening yesterday
[4:07:13] Speaker 1: because yesterday and today are separated by moments in time.
[4:07:20] Speaker 5: You said, you said time is going to separate two moments.
[4:07:23] Speaker 1: Correct, that's yes, that's what time does.
[4:07:25] Speaker 5: Yes, And I'm asking you how would you understand the
[4:07:28] Speaker 5: separation of two.
[4:07:29] Speaker 1: Moments because they're not happening all at once, and I'm
[4:07:35] Speaker 1: one precedes the other.
[4:07:37] Speaker 5: And I'm asking you how would you understand that?
[4:07:40] Speaker 1: Because that's the way the world works. You and I
[4:07:43] Speaker 1: already agree that cause and effect is real. You and
[4:07:46] Speaker 1: I already agree that because there's no evidence for that.
[4:07:53] Speaker 5: So I'm asking you the evidence that time can be
[4:07:55] Speaker 5: non dependent on tangible things, And you're not answering.
[4:07:58] Speaker 1: What's the proof that see the amazing burden shift, it's
[4:08:03] Speaker 1: always the same burden shift.
[4:08:05] Speaker 5: I'm saying it's dependent because the only way we can
[4:08:08] Speaker 5: understand separation of two moments is through tangible things.
[4:08:12] Speaker 1: That's the only way we can measure it.
[4:08:15] Speaker 5: That's the only way you can understand it.
[4:08:17] Speaker 1: No, I did well. I think there's other ways to
[4:08:19] Speaker 1: understand it. Doctor Blitz has some good information on this.
[4:08:22] Speaker 1: In fact, he wrote some papers on this as well.
[4:08:24] Speaker 1: But I'm saying the only way we can measure it
[4:08:27] Speaker 1: is through tangible things. I'm not saying that's the only
[4:08:29] Speaker 1: way to actually understand time. In fact, cosmology have come
[4:08:35] Speaker 1: up with a number of different ways to describe time
[4:08:37] Speaker 1: without tangible like physical items.
[4:08:41] Speaker 5: Okay, can you could you describe that to me? Because
[4:08:44] Speaker 5: you have failed to describe that. You failed to describe
[4:08:46] Speaker 5: me the distinctions between the two moments.
[4:08:49] Speaker 2: Dude, you have.
[4:08:49] Speaker 9: Failed to prove anything, literally anything.
[4:08:54] Speaker 1: Imagine getting up here and going through endless burden shifting
[4:08:57] Speaker 1: on like really easy questions. Remember this is all he
[4:09:00] Speaker 1: was going to prove as God is real. I'm still waiting, sir.
[4:09:07] Speaker 1: So here's here's what I know you have. You have
[4:09:11] Speaker 1: zero percent chance of bringing a valid argument for God
[4:09:16] Speaker 1: at all, any God, no matter what that God is.
[4:09:19] Speaker 1: I know this for sure, though, you have less than
[4:09:22] Speaker 1: zero percent chance of making your God that God.
[4:09:27] Speaker 5: So when I asked you what are the you said,
[4:09:29] Speaker 5: there's two distinct moments, correct, He stuck on this sh
[4:09:33] Speaker 5: And I'm asking you what distincts the moments?
[4:09:35] Speaker 9: Can you just say yes? And we can hear the last.
[4:09:38] Speaker 5: Premise that we're asking. We're understanding what time is? I
[4:09:41] Speaker 5: say what is time? You say the distinction between two moments?
[4:09:44] Speaker 5: And I say, what is that specific distinction going to be?
[4:09:47] Speaker 5: And you don't answer it.
[4:09:48] Speaker 1: I did. I've answered it five times.
[4:09:50] Speaker 5: What is going to be the distinction?
[4:09:52] Speaker 1: The distinction is that it's not happening at once. The
[4:09:55] Speaker 1: two moments are separated, not at the same time.
[4:10:00] Speaker 2: That is the.
[4:10:00] Speaker 5: Distinction that you're definition what time is.
[4:10:05] Speaker 1: Yes, I am, because.
[4:10:07] Speaker 5: It's called running in circles.
[4:10:08] Speaker 1: I think it's not running in circles. The thing one
[4:10:12] Speaker 1: thing happening and then another thing happening and they're not
[4:10:15] Speaker 1: overlapping each other on a timetable, means that they're separated
[4:10:19] Speaker 1: by time.
[4:10:21] Speaker 5: Right, And I would ask you, how do you understand
[4:10:23] Speaker 5: it to be to be that they're not overlapping on a.
[4:10:26] Speaker 1: Timetable because cause and effect worked?
[4:10:31] Speaker 5: And how would you understand that cause and effect.
[4:10:33] Speaker 1: Worked because it's always worked and we've never observed it
[4:10:37] Speaker 1: to not work.
[4:10:40] Speaker 5: So you appealed to this idea that since we empirically
[4:10:45] Speaker 5: see that it works, right, we.
[4:10:48] Speaker 9: Have a question of how much to boot the guest.
[4:10:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, he's irritating everybody at this point. All right, well, listen,
[4:10:54] Speaker 1: you failed if you don't engage just pretty years, you
[4:10:57] Speaker 1: failed to support premise number one of your argument. You've
[4:11:02] Speaker 1: ran away from every question we engaged with and did
[4:11:06] Speaker 1: nothing but burden shift the entire time you're up here.
[4:11:09] Speaker 1: I think it's time for you move on to a
[4:11:13] Speaker 1: conversation that doesn't require you sticking religiously to a script.
[4:11:22] Speaker 1: Imagine reading from a script, thinking that it's like, as
[4:11:26] Speaker 1: long as you get the interlocular to like agree with
[4:11:30] Speaker 1: your various presuppositions, that you're right.
[4:11:34] Speaker 9: Oh man, someone in the chat is mad, mad that
[4:11:36] Speaker 9: I keep intervening. My sincerest apologies for saying like six
[4:11:41] Speaker 9: words in.
[4:11:42] Speaker 6: All of that.
[4:11:43] Speaker 1: God forbid a woman talking alive. My goodness, Bertram, thank
[4:11:46] Speaker 1: you for the dragon. All right, guys, I'm going to
[4:11:49] Speaker 1: read a couple of super chats, and I got it
[4:11:51] Speaker 1: caught at night. I've got an early morning tomorrow, and
[4:11:57] Speaker 1: it's a holiday weekend, guys, so share it with your
[4:11:59] Speaker 1: loved ones. Jam thank you for the superchet, says, wishing
[4:12:02] Speaker 1: you a great weekend. Cheers of me go well, thank
[4:12:04] Speaker 1: you so much, Jam, I appreciate that, and cheers to you,
[4:12:07] Speaker 1: and Carla says thank you. Justin well, Carla, I say
[4:12:09] Speaker 1: thank you, and Dexter again with the superchat big w
[4:12:13] Speaker 1: dex He says, I was debating someone about my Jesus
[4:12:16] Speaker 1: is not qualified to be the messiah argument. And in
[4:12:19] Speaker 1: regards to the curse of Jack and Niah, my opponent
[4:12:21] Speaker 1: was saying that Galatians three thirteen proves Jesus got rid
[4:12:24] Speaker 1: of all curses. What are your thoughts, Well, you would
[4:12:28] Speaker 1: have to first demonstrate that Jesus was the Messiah before
[4:12:31] Speaker 1: you can say that Jesus got rid of the curses.
[4:12:34] Speaker 1: So it's a circular argument, right. The conclusion is the
[4:12:38] Speaker 1: thing that solves the failed premise. Right, So, like I
[4:12:42] Speaker 1: could say the same thing. I could say, well, like
[4:12:44] Speaker 1: I'm the Messiah, and they might say, well, you can't
[4:12:46] Speaker 1: be the Messiah because you weren't born of King David
[4:12:49] Speaker 1: and like you didn't do the prophecies, And I would say, yeah,
[4:12:51] Speaker 1: but if I'm the Messiah, then I can just you know,
[4:12:55] Speaker 1: reconfigure whatever it said and invent something new. And I
[4:12:58] Speaker 1: can do it because I'm the Messiah. Like that's basically
[4:13:01] Speaker 1: what's happening here, right, He's just saying that Jesus got
[4:13:04] Speaker 1: rid of the things. At best, it still makes the
[4:13:08] Speaker 1: god a liar because he's contradicting himself. Although Galatians get
[4:13:14] Speaker 1: the right verse, I'm going to read Glatian three thirteen
[4:13:16] Speaker 1: out loud for everyone says Christ redeemed us from the
[4:13:21] Speaker 1: curse of the law by becoming a curse for us,
[4:13:23] Speaker 1: for it is written cursed as everyone who hangs on
[4:13:25] Speaker 1: a tree. So yeah, in Pauline theology, Jesus did take
[4:13:29] Speaker 1: away the law, but you would have to demonstrate that
[4:13:32] Speaker 1: he was the Messiah before you got me to accept
[4:13:35] Speaker 1: that reinterpretation. Picklus Cage, amazing name. Thank you for the
[4:13:41] Speaker 1: Supertet says, I've had kinnic kidney stones. Turns out the
[4:13:44] Speaker 1: Lord and Savior has been living inside me the entire time.
[4:13:46] Speaker 1: Doug is inside of you, Pickolas Cage, although Doug does
[4:13:51] Speaker 1: not want to give people kidney stones, see Doug would
[4:13:53] Speaker 1: never Eric. Thank you for the fight. Doar Superjet says,
[4:13:56] Speaker 1: does your latent ever activate from callers casual heresies and
[4:14:03] Speaker 1: make you think people's corpses have been put on trial
[4:14:06] Speaker 1: for every Once in a while, I'll hear an argument
[4:14:10] Speaker 1: from Protestanism, and I think to myself, the Catholics really
[4:14:14] Speaker 1: got this one right. The Protestystem really screwed the Pooche.
[4:14:17] Speaker 1: But as an atheist, I'm not really allowed to make
[4:14:19] Speaker 1: that argument. kV K. Thank you for the superchest says,
[4:14:23] Speaker 1: would you ever do a debate with your physicist, cosmologists,
[4:14:26] Speaker 1: doctor friend about the popular theories regarding how the universe
[4:14:29] Speaker 1: came to be? Versus crazy as biblical? Every Sunday morning,
[4:14:32] Speaker 1: I won't be this Sunday morning, but literally every Sunday morning,
[4:14:35] Speaker 1: doctor Blitz and I are debating with Ian on the
[4:14:40] Speaker 1: Unapologetic Channel. So come by and see doctor Blitz debate
[4:14:43] Speaker 1: these topics. El Rocky, thank you for the superchest. It says, Hey, brother,
[4:14:47] Speaker 1: what's your thoughts on similarities of Dionysus and Jesus. I
[4:14:50] Speaker 1: think they're quite similar. I think Jesus was a myth
[4:14:53] Speaker 1: I'm sorry. The story of Jesus employs a lot of
[4:14:56] Speaker 1: mythology stolen from the Greek philosophy and the Greek religions,
[4:15:02] Speaker 1: and so I think part of it was stolen because,
[4:15:04] Speaker 1: like they were describing him in ways that represented other
[4:15:07] Speaker 1: Greek deities, and they wanted you to think that Jesus
[4:15:10] Speaker 1: was similar, kind of like the cult of Serapis, and
[4:15:14] Speaker 1: we had lots of dying and rising gods as well,
[4:15:16] Speaker 1: Like he wasn't really unique. So I think there's a
[4:15:18] Speaker 1: lot of costs over there. Damien, thank you for the
[4:15:21] Speaker 1: ten of our super chet, says, the Gospels mentioned demon
[4:15:24] Speaker 1: sixty five times. Did Aramaic have more than one word
[4:15:27] Speaker 1: for demons? Do modern day Christians literally believe demon's cause illness?
[4:15:32] Speaker 1: There's not really like a word in the Old Testament
[4:15:35] Speaker 1: that works well for demons in Greek is really simple.
[4:15:39] Speaker 1: It's like deemonian would be the standard word for demon
[4:15:48] Speaker 1: in Hebrew. You get spirits, right, you get like different
[4:15:52] Speaker 1: types of ruach, and that some ruachs are bad and
[4:15:56] Speaker 1: some are good, and the bad ones we would call
[4:15:59] Speaker 1: demon in modern language. The good ones not so much.
[4:16:02] Speaker 1: I hope that helps, but no, there's no like equivalent
[4:16:05] Speaker 1: in Biblical Hebrew for the word demon, like as it
[4:16:08] Speaker 1: shows up in the New Testament. Chris, thank you for
[4:16:12] Speaker 1: the supertest, says your pre supper mind tricks don't work
[4:16:15] Speaker 1: on me just in the hut, they don't. I was
[4:16:19] Speaker 1: so hoping he'd move on from the conversation so we
[4:16:22] Speaker 1: can move on to his God, but we couldn't get
[4:16:25] Speaker 1: that far. Singer Soul, thank you for the supertest says,
[4:16:27] Speaker 1: how does this guy think we all got to true
[4:16:30] Speaker 1: conclusions about reality not using empiricism as the starting point.
[4:16:34] Speaker 1: What exactly is he using as his starting point. He's
[4:16:37] Speaker 1: making up a starting point. He's presupposing God and then
[4:16:41] Speaker 1: just inserting God into any argument that breaks. And thank
[4:16:45] Speaker 1: you so much, Eli for the another supertest, says this
[4:16:48] Speaker 1: Darth Dawkins fanatic epitomizes a growing problem in America. People
[4:16:52] Speaker 1: in this country are more concerned with conspiracy and religion
[4:16:55] Speaker 1: astrology than actual education. I agree, Eli, there's this side
[4:17:00] Speaker 1: Ida that there's always a conspiracy. The right wingers all
[4:17:03] Speaker 1: about the conspiracies and they're primed to believe in it
[4:17:07] Speaker 1: because of the Bible. And just a couple more superchats, guys, Margic,
[4:17:10] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the superchat. Big W says,
[4:17:12] Speaker 1: keep cooking the phil bros.
[4:17:14] Speaker 6: I will.
[4:17:15] Speaker 1: They can't bring their nonsense in here. They'll get cooked.
[4:17:17] Speaker 1: And mister thank you for the superchat. And Jake Carla
[4:17:21] Speaker 1: Ja thank you for the two Dour supertest says Calor
[4:17:23] Speaker 1: was only I'm sorry, Carl has only proven he knows
[4:17:27] Speaker 1: some words. I think you nailed it. He knew the
[4:17:29] Speaker 1: philosophy words. He had no actual argument, and my consciousness
[4:17:33] Speaker 1: says w for Sarah, it's nice when Justin has a
[4:17:36] Speaker 1: co host. I agree. I like having a co host,
[4:17:39] Speaker 1: and Sarah is the best of them. Make sure you're
[4:17:42] Speaker 1: following Sarah guys on YouTube as well. Go to her
[4:17:45] Speaker 1: handle at Leaving Faith on YouTube and follow her. Now,
[4:17:49] Speaker 1: look at the people crashing out debate Frank turt Hey,
[4:17:52] Speaker 1: you bring them in here, I'll debate them. Jose, thank
[4:17:56] Speaker 1: you for the superchat, says thanks to Justin, I'm gonna
[4:17:59] Speaker 1: have nightmares of someone saying over and over, so if
[4:18:02] Speaker 1: they hold a pencil in front of you.
[4:18:06] Speaker 3: I was dying. I was dying.
[4:18:11] Speaker 1: I'll never be untickled by the nonsense of philosophy, Bros.
[4:18:16] Speaker 1: S F thank you for the supertest, says Imagine getting
[4:18:18] Speaker 1: up to represent your God but instead spend the whole
[4:18:21] Speaker 1: time forcing your opponent to prove time is real. What
[4:18:26] Speaker 1: a pathetic crowd. Last one, guys, Solo, good to see you,
[4:18:30] Speaker 1: my friend, Solo, says Jesus Christ. I would rather listen
[4:18:33] Speaker 1: to Q Top. I'm with you, Solo, I'm will see guys.
[4:18:37] Speaker 1: Make sure you're following Solo Veno as well. All right, Sarah,
[4:18:42] Speaker 1: are you going live tonight?
[4:18:44] Speaker 9: I already did. I went early.
[4:18:45] Speaker 1: Oh congratulations, good job. I'm getting off on you. I'm
[4:18:48] Speaker 1: going to bed, Sarah. Thanks for joining us. Guys, if
[4:18:50] Speaker 1: you're not following Sarah, I promise you're missing out. The
[4:18:53] Speaker 1: power of Doug compels you.
[4:18:55] Speaker 9: Thanks for having me.
[4:18:56] Speaker 1: And with that, guys, I want to call it. I'm
[4:18:59] Speaker 1: going to run. I'm gonna go let my cat inside. Uh,
[4:19:02] Speaker 1: he's been wandering outside looking for you know, trouble to
[4:19:06] Speaker 1: get into. And then we're going to bed. So love you, guys.
[4:19:10] Speaker 1: We'll see you soon.

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