# 2025-11-21 LIVE DEBATE \[God is Imaginary\]

An episode of [Deconstruction Zone](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1837730286), 6 Jan 2026, 5 h 19 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/69201280/2025_11_21_18_00_27.mp3

Live debating every theist on the planet. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Get Member Perks: https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone/join https://patreon.com/Deconstruction_Zone --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUPPORT THE STREAM: https://venmo.com/u/JHCOFFEEFUND https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/JHCOFFEEFUND https://cash.app/$JHCOFFEEFUND --------------------------------------------------------------------- SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS: https://www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction.zone https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone https://www.youtube.com/@DZDebates https://www.twitch.tv/deconstructionzone_ https://www.instagram.com/deconstruction_zone/ https://clapperapp.com/Justin_DZ https://x.com/Justin_DZ_ https://discord.com/invite/WmeAmrhkxZ https://linktr.ee/justin_____ Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/deconstruction-zone--6451535/support.

## Transcript

[0:06] Speaker 1: All right, I think the YouTube streams are open. I'm
[0:10] Speaker 1: gonna open up TikTok. There we go. We should have
[0:16] Speaker 1: all of the streams open. Give me one second, real quick.
[0:25] Speaker 1: Get my video resolution worked out properly here mm hmmmmm
[0:32] Speaker 1: on video Ninja. There we go. Now we got proper
[0:38] Speaker 1: video resolution on video Ninja, and we should be ready
[0:44] Speaker 1: to rock and roll. So I think I think all
[0:47] Speaker 1: the streams are up. Welcome in, friends, It's it's Friday
[0:50] Speaker 1: night to be fun. Appreciated all being here. We had
[0:57] Speaker 1: some some interesting conversations on Wednesday night. Surprisingly interesting. Not
[1:03] Speaker 1: as many crash outs as I expected, but it is
[1:05] Speaker 1: Friday night. We're gonna have some crash outs, I'm sure.
[1:08] Speaker 1: And welcome in everybody from the Ian Raid. Thank you
[1:11] Speaker 1: Ian for sending the people over big w Welcome in
[1:15] Speaker 1: everyone from Ian's channel. In fact, I'll be live on
[1:20] Speaker 1: on Sunday morning with Ian and Blitz. Actually this week yeah,
[1:25] Speaker 1: this weekend. Yeah, we'll be live on Sunday. I don't
[1:29] Speaker 1: know about Thanksgiving weekend. We actually haven't talked about that yet.
[1:33] Speaker 1: It's possible that we might not be live on Unapologetic
[1:35] Speaker 1: over Thanksgiving weekend. We'll have to take some some stock
[1:39] Speaker 1: this weekend. See what our schedules are like. But welcome in, friends,
[1:43] Speaker 1: I'm glad to see you. We've got a couple of
[1:45] Speaker 1: super chats already. The guest boxes are open. We've got
[1:50] Speaker 1: a link on thescreen tiny dot c c forde slash
[1:54] Speaker 1: d Z guest, you can use that link to get
[1:57] Speaker 1: into the discussion. You can awesomeh use the guest request
[2:03] Speaker 1: on TikTok. Do is hit the grosctory request button here
[2:06] Speaker 1: somewhere in the bottom of tool bar on TikTok and
[2:08] Speaker 1: you'll get into the queue and we can we can
[2:10] Speaker 1: discuss whether or not your God is real. Dexter, thank
[2:13] Speaker 1: you for sending up five DZ debate memberships. I really
[2:17] Speaker 1: appreciate that. Did you change a handle to dexter nine
[2:21] Speaker 1: with interesting well like it? H Lakuka says, hello friend,
[2:25] Speaker 1: how are you? I am well, Lakuka, how are you?
[2:28] Speaker 1: I hope you're doing well. And Devil's PD says Friday
[2:32] Speaker 1: night barbecue time. Let's go it is it is. It
[2:35] Speaker 1: is barbecue time. Thank you for the ten dollars super
[2:38] Speaker 1: jet and we've we got one guest already loading up.
[2:42] Speaker 1: Looks like John Onto TikTok q. I'm gonna take a
[2:45] Speaker 1: moment with John to make sure the audio is working.
[2:48] Speaker 1: I switched soundboard software because El Gato finally pushed out
[2:54] Speaker 1: an update for a three piece of software, which they
[2:58] Speaker 1: didn't have before. I want to see if it's any good.
[3:01] Speaker 1: I think it's all set. I've been working though old John.
[3:09] Speaker 2: Hey, I will never forgive the atheist experience for what
[3:12] Speaker 2: they did to Matt Della Hunting.
[3:15] Speaker 1: I don't know what they did to Matt Della Hunty,
[3:17] Speaker 1: so I guess I don't really know what you're referring to.
[3:20] Speaker 3: Yeah, well, look into it.
[3:23] Speaker 1: There's some there's some stuff that went down. That's it.
[3:28] Speaker 1: Just came up to cry about that, Okay, listen. I
[3:33] Speaker 1: know there's some bad blood between XP and Matt. I
[3:36] Speaker 1: actually don't know the story, and I'm not sure I
[3:39] Speaker 1: really care. I love them both. I love XP, I
[3:42] Speaker 1: love Matt. It certainly you guys know my position. I
[3:45] Speaker 1: hate it when the atheist community is divided and there's infighting.
[3:49] Speaker 1: Not a fan of that. I'm a big tent kind
[3:52] Speaker 1: of person. I think we should all be on the
[3:53] Speaker 1: same team. I don't think we should spend our time
[3:56] Speaker 1: in fighting I don't think it serves a purpose, and
[4:00] Speaker 1: I you know, I'm certainly not a fan of like
[4:05] Speaker 1: like purity tests as well. Like there are some people
[4:08] Speaker 1: in our community that are deconstructing from politics the same
[4:12] Speaker 1: way they're deconstructing from religion. They just haven't finished yet,
[4:15] Speaker 1: So I mean that being said, we do have one guest.
[4:19] Speaker 1: Hext's waiting to get in. Let me grab. We've got
[4:21] Speaker 1: a couple of super chest dark ether. Prince Princess says,
[4:25] Speaker 1: I feel like there's been an epidemic of narcissistic personality
[4:28] Speaker 1: disorder considering how many colors cannot accept the fact that
[4:31] Speaker 1: they are simply mistaken. That is actually the case. There's
[4:35] Speaker 1: a lot of people that call in and they just
[4:39] Speaker 1: they they've never thought that maybe they could be wrong,
[4:45] Speaker 1: final voice of thanks for the glasses, and then they'll
[4:47] Speaker 1: ask me, could you be wrong? Well, of course I
[4:49] Speaker 1: could be wrong. That's how I became an atheist. I
[4:51] Speaker 1: was religious, I realized I was wrong, and I changed. So, yeah,
[4:54] Speaker 1: I could be wrong, but they haven't considered that they
[4:57] Speaker 1: could be wrong. Welcome in from the Ian Raid. Friends
[4:59] Speaker 1: about they bring in our first guests, well, technically our
[5:02] Speaker 1: second guest panoramic banana. Great name says, it's the union
[5:07] Speaker 1: of the horizontal in the vertical that formed the cross
[5:09] Speaker 1: of the Salvation delivering its graath. Indeed, indeed, the horizontal
[5:15] Speaker 1: stream with the vertical stream combined is the hugest of graces.
[5:20] Speaker 1: And milif Rangler, thank you so much for the ten
[5:22] Speaker 1: that supertest says. Love that you take the time to
[5:25] Speaker 1: decorate your surroundings shows you care. I do listen to Mifrangler.
[5:29] Speaker 1: You guys know I have a background in engineering, and
[5:34] Speaker 1: not everyone thinks like me. However, one of my slogans,
[5:38] Speaker 1: like something that I live by, is that details matter.
[5:41] Speaker 1: When you find someone that's willing to pay attention to
[5:44] Speaker 1: the details, that means they're really invested in what's happening.
[5:48] Speaker 1: So I believe in details. That's why I'm not a
[5:50] Speaker 1: Christian anymore. I read the Bible and I said, fucking
[5:53] Speaker 1: these details to line up. All right, let's get our
[5:58] Speaker 1: let's get our next guest in here. Welcome in hex, Hey, justin,
[6:05] Speaker 1: how are you good?
[6:07] Speaker 4: Are you?
[6:08] Speaker 5: I'm good?
[6:10] Speaker 6: So I it's my birthday weekend, so my.
[6:16] Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.
[6:18] Speaker 6: So I've just kind of been going around just expressing
[6:21] Speaker 6: how grateful I am for the deconstruction folks in the
[6:25] Speaker 6: community just who have been gifts in my life, and
[6:28] Speaker 6: you're one of them, and I just wanted to share
[6:30] Speaker 6: that you have contributed to my sanity as I get
[6:34] Speaker 6: this PhD. So I've just you know, you've been first
[6:40] Speaker 6: I was introduced to the line, then I ran into you,
[6:43] Speaker 6: then I ran into Thinker, and it's just been this
[6:46] Speaker 6: awesome like just like a connection pool of folks who
[6:52] Speaker 6: just have contributed to the work that I do, and
[6:56] Speaker 6: just how much dedication I have in my my PhDs
[7:01] Speaker 6: in counseling psychology, and then I'm getting I'm also a
[7:04] Speaker 6: therapist and I work with a lot of religious trauma
[7:11] Speaker 6: and different deconstruction conversations and it gets hard to sometimes
[7:18] Speaker 6: bridge that like non bias battle, you know, where I'm
[7:23] Speaker 6: providing that empathy for folks and also like just reminding
[7:28] Speaker 6: them that deconstruction can be such a general term. It's
[7:32] Speaker 6: it's it doesn't have a moral value to it. It's
[7:34] Speaker 6: literally just like breaking down information. And I have really
[7:39] Speaker 6: deeply appreciated your lives and your ability to help me,
[7:45] Speaker 6: even like in this continuous process because I deconstructed a
[7:50] Speaker 6: while back, like when I was like eighteen, I was,
[7:53] Speaker 6: you know, I'm thirty three now as of yesterday, but
[7:57] Speaker 6: but I just I don't know, I need it. I
[8:00] Speaker 6: needed this community so bad in a time where it's
[8:03] Speaker 6: a very stressful time for me. And I also live
[8:05] Speaker 6: in Oklahoma, and it's just like very yes, that facial expression,
[8:10] Speaker 6: that exact facial expression.
[8:13] Speaker 1: All Oklahoma, I got.
[8:16] Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
[8:17] Speaker 6: And and I just I've really appreciated like.
[8:21] Speaker 3: Being able to work.
[8:23] Speaker 6: On this through my own mental health and having the
[8:25] Speaker 6: access to like these free free resources of TikTok like
[8:29] Speaker 6: and YouTube. So You've been such a positive force in
[8:33] Speaker 6: my life and I just wanted to share that.
[8:34] Speaker 2: And I appreciate you well.
[8:36] Speaker 1: Ship Hex, I appreciate the kind words and and happy
[8:39] Speaker 1: birthday on behalf of the entire community. We're glad that
[8:43] Speaker 1: you're a part of it, and we're glad that you're
[8:46] Speaker 1: able to utilize what we do here and help others.
[8:50] Speaker 6: Oh yeah yeah, and I I refer I refer clients
[8:55] Speaker 6: to recovering from religion and uh, I am technically like
[9:00] Speaker 6: in the vetting process with the Secularly Therapy project. It
[9:04] Speaker 6: just takes a takes a minute. And I and I
[9:07] Speaker 6: have to go through the reply process. But then I
[9:10] Speaker 6: next year I'll have internship though, So it's just like
[9:12] Speaker 6: a whole complicated thing with the process of doing that,
[9:17] Speaker 6: but it's it's so it's so worth it and I
[9:22] Speaker 6: and I love what I do and I hope to
[9:24] Speaker 6: teach and I hope to do more research that maybe
[9:28] Speaker 6: one day, like you might be like, oh, doctor Hex
[9:30] Speaker 6: did this article and we're we're talking about how it
[9:33] Speaker 6: affected our community, and you know, I just I'm I'm
[9:36] Speaker 6: very excited to do more religious deconstruction work. And yeah,
[9:43] Speaker 6: I just I just get really excited to sit down
[9:45] Speaker 6: your lives because I just appreciate the line of questioning
[9:48] Speaker 6: and I I really hope that this continues to flourish
[9:54] Speaker 6: because the Socratic style questioning is so important. And yeah,
[10:02] Speaker 6: I could just go on.
[10:03] Speaker 7: So I appreciate.
[10:03] Speaker 6: I don't want to take it your time, justin I
[10:05] Speaker 6: I really appreciate you, and I I'm very grateful and
[10:10] Speaker 6: thanks for keeping me sane.
[10:12] Speaker 1: Absolutely we got your back. Well, happy birthday, friend, I'm
[10:15] Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll have a great one.
[10:17] Speaker 6: Oh one more thing, keep this, Oh my god, I
[10:19] Speaker 6: love all the sweaters. Just keep wearing the sweaters. Man,
[10:23] Speaker 6: they're working. I love it, so I appreciate it and
[10:26] Speaker 6: thank you so much. I hope you have a good
[10:28] Speaker 6: day and I look forward to listening to the live today.
[10:31] Speaker 7: Have a good one, Have a.
[10:33] Speaker 1: Good one, w X. I do love me a good sweater.
[10:38] Speaker 1: The first time I saw Ian wearing some dope sweaters,
[10:41] Speaker 1: I was like, that's a cat. That's the cat that
[10:44] Speaker 1: I talk to you right there. But I get overheated
[10:50] Speaker 1: if I wear sweaters in warm weather. I have to
[10:52] Speaker 1: wait for the weather to really cool down. Luckily, you know,
[10:55] Speaker 1: in the in the Midwest, it cools down pretty early,
[10:58] Speaker 1: so weather's already pretty cool. Here. Let me grab We've
[11:01] Speaker 1: got a couple of people waiting to get in already.
[11:03] Speaker 1: The cute water fowl was next in line, and then
[11:08] Speaker 1: possibly the Onu knocker. I assume that name has something
[11:12] Speaker 1: to do with the Onu naki. So maybe we're going
[11:14] Speaker 1: to do some ancient aliens here in a minute. Let's see.
[11:19] Speaker 1: Adam says, you recently said that it's awesome to read
[11:21] Speaker 1: the Bible in less than a year. I got my
[11:24] Speaker 1: Bible in May and I'm on book number five. You
[11:27] Speaker 1: got me motivated. Now listen, you're really reading the Bible,
[11:31] Speaker 1: if you could do it less than a year. I
[11:33] Speaker 1: admit that there are people that can breeze through it
[11:37] Speaker 1: much faster. But the reality is, if you breeze through
[11:39] Speaker 1: it that fast, you're you're not going to catch most
[11:41] Speaker 1: of it. You're not gonna remember it, not going to
[11:43] Speaker 1: retain it. You have to take a little bit of
[11:45] Speaker 1: time on the subjects. And b Boop says ads equal question,
[11:49] Speaker 1: which domination is the most biblically accurate? Oh, fuck me,
[11:53] Speaker 1: the jew the Jews. No, I mean the most biblically
[11:59] Speaker 1: accurate to the Hebrew Bible obviously would be traditional Judaism.
[12:03] Speaker 1: The most biblical accurates of the New Testament. Is that
[12:06] Speaker 1: the problem is the New Testament can't agree in itself
[12:10] Speaker 1: as to what its teachings are, which is why the
[12:13] Speaker 1: churches have always been so divided. That the church disagrees
[12:17] Speaker 1: because the Bible disagrees. So when we see these churches
[12:21] Speaker 1: that can't agree on like fuck do we need baptism
[12:23] Speaker 1: for the remission of sins? Should be baptizing infants? All
[12:28] Speaker 1: this nonsense that people argue about. Yeah, they're arguing as
[12:33] Speaker 1: the Bible doesn't make sense. That being said, I do personally,
[12:37] Speaker 1: I do personally think that the Catholic tradition, maybe the
[12:43] Speaker 1: Orthodox tradition, would be the closest to the you know
[12:46] Speaker 1: what was originally the Christian early Christian community. Whether or
[12:52] Speaker 1: not they adhere to the Bible is maybe a different story.
[12:54] Speaker 1: I don't think the Greek Orthodox adhere to the Bible
[12:56] Speaker 1: all that well. I think the Catholics do a little
[12:59] Speaker 1: bit better job. So that's just my personal opinion. Doctor
[13:04] Speaker 1: wasamba good to hear hear from me. Thank you for
[13:06] Speaker 1: the ten that super says hell Nero. Please find us
[13:08] Speaker 1: another like BMF to crash out. I'm you, I will
[13:11] Speaker 1: if I can, going his nose on the screen. Who
[13:14] Speaker 1: knows it might be funnier. Also, no more Ai arguments,
[13:19] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we're not gonna do that. Justice for Sarah,
[13:21] Speaker 1: and big high to the Viking chef. Yeah, big hello
[13:23] Speaker 1: to the Viking chef. And if poor Sarah was literally
[13:27] Speaker 1: getting tortured last night listening having to listen to this conversation,
[13:32] Speaker 1: uh Sellerman saying the Geneva Bible. The Geneva Bible is
[13:35] Speaker 1: not that great. I got a copy of it. There's
[13:37] Speaker 1: nothing special about it. I have no idea why people
[13:41] Speaker 1: think going to an older English translation is somehow like
[13:46] Speaker 1: better than modern translations. Okay, let me get a cute
[13:50] Speaker 1: water foul from the guest Q and I'm gonna test
[13:55] Speaker 1: audio first real quick, because I changed my soundboard soft
[14:00] Speaker 1: there was an Elgato update on the soundboard software and
[14:03] Speaker 1: some of the features changed. So what that means is
[14:07] Speaker 1: I'm basically in the testing phase with their new iteration
[14:10] Speaker 1: of software, so I have to make sure everything works
[14:12] Speaker 1: before we move on too far in the conversation. But
[14:15] Speaker 1: get water fowl. Welcome in? Are you at least eighteen?
[14:18] Speaker 1: And do you believe in God? Okay, and before we
[14:24] Speaker 1: get too much further. Did everyone hear the guest on
[14:27] Speaker 1: TikTok and on YouTube? I assume they did. I heard
[14:32] Speaker 1: your lot and clear some people on TikToker saying no,
[14:36] Speaker 1: they didn't hear you. All right, give me one second
[14:40] Speaker 1: to see. But let me make sure they heard you
[14:43] Speaker 1: on YouTube at least. But you didn't hear them on
[14:46] Speaker 1: YouTube either. How's that possible? We're in the same soundboard. Uh,
[14:51] Speaker 1: do me a favor a quick waterfoul? Say something again?
[14:53] Speaker 1: I want to make sure that the soundbar moves.
[14:58] Speaker 8: See, so I'm using my desk.
[15:01] Speaker 3: Oh.
[15:01] Speaker 1: Interesting, interesting because I can hear you the sound is
[15:06] Speaker 1: the sound was working. I tested it on my phone
[15:11] Speaker 1: before I started. Well, yeah, I'm using OBS and I'm
[15:16] Speaker 1: using TikTok Studio. That being said, I did test it
[15:19] Speaker 1: before I went live with my own hardware. But you know,
[15:22] Speaker 1: once you go live, it goes crazy. Not a big deal.
[15:26] Speaker 1: I mean, there's a couple of ways to fix it.
[15:28] Speaker 1: Is really not that big of an issue. But all right,
[15:32] Speaker 1: So what we'll do then is I'm going to turn
[15:37] Speaker 1: one thing on real quick and one thing off real quick,
[15:42] Speaker 1: and I suspect we'll be okay. All right, go ahead,
[15:46] Speaker 1: cute waterfowl now and say something for us.
[15:48] Speaker 9: Hello, Hello, you.
[15:53] Speaker 1: Turned that time? Yeah you heard them on TikTok. I
[15:59] Speaker 1: assume yeah, I heard you on TikTok there, and let's
[16:04] Speaker 1: see if they heard you on YouTube. I assume they
[16:06] Speaker 1: heard it on YouTube loud and clear. They said on YouTube,
[16:09] Speaker 1: was there any echo? Was he echoe? Keep waterfowl? Say
[16:17] Speaker 1: something for us real quick? I want to make sure
[16:18] Speaker 1: there's no echo or anything.
[16:20] Speaker 8: Okay, is there any echo?
[16:24] Speaker 1: They're saying no echo on TikTok, and they're saying no
[16:27] Speaker 1: echo on YouTube so I think we're I think we're
[16:30] Speaker 1: good to go. Okay, So, Waterfowl, you said you're at
[16:33] Speaker 1: least eighteen and I apologized. Did you say you did
[16:35] Speaker 1: or didn't believe in God?
[16:37] Speaker 9: Yeah?
[16:38] Speaker 8: I don't need it to your show. I think it
[16:40] Speaker 8: was the other day. I was the person who left Christianity,
[16:43] Speaker 8: but I still believe in God, and I ultimately just wanted.
[16:49] Speaker 9: To discuss with you.
[16:51] Speaker 8: Is is it problematic for me to be religious in
[16:55] Speaker 8: a sense but not follow the Christian Bible because I
[16:58] Speaker 8: believe Judaism is more true in Christianity, just based off
[17:02] Speaker 8: my studying over the years. But is believing in God
[17:05] Speaker 8: problematic if there is no way for me to prove
[17:07] Speaker 8: it beyond feelings, because that's kind of the point I'm at.
[17:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, So basically my position is that as human beings,
[17:18] Speaker 1: we should try to believe as many true things as
[17:20] Speaker 1: possible and as many false things as are as few
[17:24] Speaker 1: false things as possible. And the reason why that is,
[17:28] Speaker 1: you know, we make decisions based on what we believe. Now,
[17:30] Speaker 1: the truth of the matter is, if you believe in
[17:32] Speaker 1: a generic God but you don't have a religion, it
[17:35] Speaker 1: probably doesn't impact your life all that much, only a
[17:38] Speaker 1: tiny bit. When you have like a real religion, then
[17:40] Speaker 1: it becomes well problematic, you might say. So, I'm not
[17:45] Speaker 1: entirely sure that it's it's critical to like that every
[17:51] Speaker 1: single belief, But that being said, I mean, it's obviously
[17:55] Speaker 1: would be more beneficial for you to believe in something
[17:58] Speaker 1: that has evidence or reason behind it. So it's not
[18:03] Speaker 1: that it's bad to believe in God. I don't think
[18:05] Speaker 1: that people that believe in God are bad. I just
[18:07] Speaker 1: don't think that it's a good practice to believe in
[18:10] Speaker 1: things without evidence.
[18:13] Speaker 9: Yeah, and I agree with that.
[18:15] Speaker 8: One of the things though, is for me, I started
[18:20] Speaker 8: the process of an Orthodox Jewish conversion and I started
[18:23] Speaker 8: learning a lot more about the Jewish philosophy. I started
[18:28] Speaker 8: learning Hebrew a few years ago, and one of the
[18:31] Speaker 8: things that I learned from just evidence of Judaism is
[18:36] Speaker 8: it's really hard to pin down, especially from a lot
[18:39] Speaker 8: of their writings.
[18:40] Speaker 9: I don't know if you've ever.
[18:40] Speaker 8: Read like Jewish philosophy books like Derek Kisham, The Way
[18:45] Speaker 8: of God or Path of the Just, stuff like that.
[18:49] Speaker 1: No, I haven't, And the reason why is because to me,
[18:53] Speaker 1: the God of the Hebrew Bible is kind of ridiculous,
[18:56] Speaker 1: So like it's not really like reading a book about
[18:59] Speaker 1: the God of the he Bible, I don't think would
[19:01] Speaker 1: be beneficial.
[19:04] Speaker 8: The reason I was asking is because one of the
[19:06] Speaker 8: arguments that I find for Judaism that I'd never really
[19:12] Speaker 8: have a way of getting around because I don't I
[19:14] Speaker 8: besides my own feelings and I guess me being stuck
[19:16] Speaker 8: in a religious aspect most of my life, the only
[19:19] Speaker 8: real evidence I've heard from Jewish people is the fact
[19:22] Speaker 8: that the Jewish people are still around, and that many
[19:26] Speaker 8: of the biblical prophecies, like returning to the land of Israel,
[19:30] Speaker 8: God saying that you know, he will only preserve a
[19:34] Speaker 8: small remnant of them because only a small remnant remnant
[19:37] Speaker 8: are loyal to him.
[19:38] Speaker 9: You know, stuff like that.
[19:39] Speaker 8: Those are like the only arguments that I guess the
[19:42] Speaker 8: Jewish people in themselves is the reason I guess I
[19:45] Speaker 8: believe God is real.
[19:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the problem with those types of predictions
[19:50] Speaker 1: is like the predictions of you're going to be the
[19:52] Speaker 1: greatest nation. You know, I'm regard I'm going to defeat
[19:55] Speaker 1: all your enemies. That type of prophetic prediction was common
[19:58] Speaker 1: in all of the ancient Near Eastern culture. So, for example,
[20:02] Speaker 1: there's a book that I bring out a lot. I
[20:04] Speaker 1: love this book, and you can get it a free pdf,
[20:07] Speaker 1: most likely on Internet. Ancient Near Eastern text relating to
[20:11] Speaker 1: the Old Testament by James Richard. There's a section in
[20:14] Speaker 1: here dedicated to Babylonian and Assyrian prophecies, and they read
[20:19] Speaker 1: just like Biblical prophecies. I mean, the reality is, all
[20:22] Speaker 1: of these ancient prophetic traditions are saying the same thing.
[20:26] Speaker 1: My God's the most powerful, Mike King's the best. Here's
[20:30] Speaker 1: what's going to happen. God's going to be victorious, right,
[20:33] Speaker 1: Marduke is Lord. And the reality is just because one
[20:37] Speaker 1: of those cultures survived doesn't mean that the prophecy came
[20:41] Speaker 1: true because there was a God behind it. I mean,
[20:44] Speaker 1: if you throw enough spaghetti at the wall, something's going
[20:46] Speaker 1: to come true. I think the biggest problem with the
[20:49] Speaker 1: God of the Hebrew Bible isn't that there's like one
[20:51] Speaker 1: or two, you know, vague predictions that came true, but
[20:55] Speaker 1: that there's so many of them that never came true
[20:57] Speaker 1: and won't ever come true. Right like you, if you
[21:00] Speaker 1: make a thousand prophecies, we would expect that something would
[21:04] Speaker 1: come true. We do the same thing with no. Stu
[21:06] Speaker 1: damis right.
[21:07] Speaker 3: No.
[21:07] Speaker 1: Sudramas was famous for making these vague prophecies that some
[21:11] Speaker 1: of them seem to have come true. But the reality
[21:14] Speaker 1: is like, if you take enough geopolitical guesses, I mean,
[21:17] Speaker 1: eventually you're gonna get something right.
[21:20] Speaker 8: Yeah, And I agree with that because one of the
[21:23] Speaker 8: contradictions in the at least the Jewish Bible that I'm
[21:26] Speaker 8: I'm well aware of is the prophecy that I think
[21:32] Speaker 8: it was Tier would be destroyed, like Babylon would destroy Tier.
[21:35] Speaker 8: And then in jah Heskel, I mean Ezekiel for English sake,
[21:40] Speaker 8: he doesn't actually do it, and he says and he
[21:42] Speaker 8: like says, oh, yeah, it actually wasn't supposed to happen.
[21:45] Speaker 1: And yeah, if you go to chapter twenty nine, God
[21:49] Speaker 1: admits that it didn't happen. Yeah.
[21:53] Speaker 8: And many of the biggest contradictions, because at least it
[21:56] Speaker 8: comes from the Hebrew Bible itself, is King's Chronicles Samuel
[22:00] Speaker 8: like Minefield that you have to navigate for those. But
[22:04] Speaker 8: I feel like I'm at the final cusp of like
[22:09] Speaker 8: maybe leaving religion entirely. It's just like I can't shake
[22:13] Speaker 8: the baseline feelings because I keep studying, I keep learning,
[22:16] Speaker 8: you know, I keep learning about pre biblical flood narratives
[22:18] Speaker 8: and stuff like that, but I just.
[22:20] Speaker 9: Can't find the.
[22:24] Speaker 8: An alternative because to me, it's like, well, if there
[22:26] Speaker 8: is no God, then everything's random, and all the things
[22:30] Speaker 8: that happened to me in my life were kind of
[22:32] Speaker 8: like purposeless and bad RNG. That's kind of like the
[22:36] Speaker 8: problem that I have when I go when I go
[22:39] Speaker 8: away from Oh.
[22:40] Speaker 9: Everything happens for a reason.
[22:41] Speaker 8: You know, you're being tested refined through fire, but then
[22:45] Speaker 8: removing religion from that part, and you know, not going
[22:48] Speaker 8: into my own life but having a rather difficult life,
[22:51] Speaker 8: it kind of just makes me like, wow, I just
[22:53] Speaker 8: had bad spawn RG, Like that's that's kind.
[22:55] Speaker 3: Of the way it.
[22:57] Speaker 9: Yeah, A non religious perspective is.
[23:00] Speaker 1: That, like one of my really good friends named Dan,
[23:03] Speaker 1: he feels like, well, there must be a God, there
[23:05] Speaker 1: must be an after life, or there's no justice, because
[23:09] Speaker 1: there's certainly no justice in this world. And I hear
[23:12] Speaker 1: people make these types of arguments from desire quite a bit.
[23:15] Speaker 1: But I understand how you could want there to be
[23:19] Speaker 1: purpose in your life, and you could want there to
[23:22] Speaker 1: be justice. You could want to see your loved ones
[23:25] Speaker 1: after your pass. But the reality is wanting something to
[23:28] Speaker 1: be true doesn't make it true. It's not a valid
[23:32] Speaker 1: argument for why something would be true. So, I mean,
[23:36] Speaker 1: the reality is, as far as we can tell, the
[23:39] Speaker 1: evidence is pointing that. You know, life on this planet
[23:43] Speaker 1: is here for a short amount of time, you know,
[23:46] Speaker 1: maybe five billion years max. You know, in about another
[23:50] Speaker 1: billion years, the Sun is going to destroy all life
[23:52] Speaker 1: on Earth and perhaps our galaxy when it collides with
[23:56] Speaker 1: the Andromena galaxy in another four billion years. It may
[23:59] Speaker 1: or may not be destroyed, depending on you know, how
[24:02] Speaker 1: we actually collide or if we end up getting sucked
[24:05] Speaker 1: into it like a super massive black hole. So like,
[24:08] Speaker 1: the reality is like our universe is chaos, which is
[24:11] Speaker 1: why life here on Earth is chaos. Like we we
[24:15] Speaker 1: evolved in a system of chaos for a short period
[24:19] Speaker 1: and eventually it'll be all gone. But that doesn't mean
[24:22] Speaker 1: that you have to live a meaningless life. It might
[24:24] Speaker 1: have not have a meaning from like a creator, but
[24:27] Speaker 1: you get to decide what kind of meaning your life has.
[24:29] Speaker 1: You could spend your life helping people. You can spend
[24:31] Speaker 1: your life giving your your family that the best life possible,
[24:35] Speaker 1: you know, there's so many things you can do that
[24:37] Speaker 1: would provide you a feeling or some kind of meaning
[24:42] Speaker 1: that you don't feel like you're aimlessly wandering, you know.
[24:47] Speaker 8: Yeah, and I and I see that too because I
[24:52] Speaker 8: constantly study like psychology, and I watch ean too. I
[24:57] Speaker 8: watch a lot of these debates because I think I'm
[24:58] Speaker 8: just like, I'm at that like finish line point. But
[25:02] Speaker 8: it's to me, the things that I struggle with the
[25:05] Speaker 8: most is, oh, well, there's a lot of bad in
[25:09] Speaker 8: the world, and we can use our lives, however minuscule
[25:13] Speaker 8: and maybe purposelessly are to benefit others and help society.
[25:17] Speaker 9: But it doesn't.
[25:18] Speaker 8: It kind of just it kind of creates a feeling
[25:21] Speaker 8: of I guess, existential dread, Like there's I kind of
[25:26] Speaker 8: just feel, oh, I'm just a small fry and of cosmos,
[25:29] Speaker 8: and if there's no afterlife, it's I'm small in comparison
[25:32] Speaker 8: to everything. And then you know, I may not be
[25:36] Speaker 8: remembered in a hundred years, let alone like two thousand years.
[25:39] Speaker 8: So really, what is the purpose of life and the
[25:42] Speaker 8: impact that I can have. I can make the lives
[25:46] Speaker 8: of others around me temporarily better, like you said, because
[25:49] Speaker 8: I have a hard time navigating my religious family because
[25:52] Speaker 8: they're they're people who are religious, but they never study.
[25:55] Speaker 8: They go to church, they do that, but they never
[25:58] Speaker 8: really sit down and read their bikes. And I've had
[26:02] Speaker 8: conflicts with family regarding my beliefs and everything like that.
[26:06] Speaker 9: But I've studied so much.
[26:07] Speaker 8: It's it's hard to navigate those relationships, especially when you're
[26:11] Speaker 8: in the position we're in.
[26:13] Speaker 1: Yeah, I really get it, you know. I remember the
[26:15] Speaker 1: first time, the first time the thought ever crossed my
[26:19] Speaker 1: mind that maybe there's no God. I was maybe twenty two,
[26:26] Speaker 1: and it terrified the shit out of me. It's scary.
[26:29] Speaker 1: It was a It's crazy that it took me that
[26:31] Speaker 1: long to conceive because like when you're growing up, you
[26:34] Speaker 1: might think, well, maybe my religion is not true, and
[26:37] Speaker 1: maybe the other religions are true, or maybe there's a
[26:40] Speaker 1: God that we don't doesn't even have a religion, right,
[26:43] Speaker 1: But when the minute, as as like a fully thinking
[26:46] Speaker 1: human being, you come to the conclusion that, oh, maybe
[26:49] Speaker 1: there is no God at all, Like none of the
[26:51] Speaker 1: religions are true because there's no God. That's terrifying because
[26:54] Speaker 1: that means there's no afterlife. You don't get to see
[26:56] Speaker 1: your loved ones. Yeah, and yes, you're going to experience
[26:58] Speaker 1: existential dread. But you're not the first one to do it.
[27:03] Speaker 1: We've all gone through it, I promise you. In fact,
[27:05] Speaker 1: one of the stories that I encourage people to read
[27:08] Speaker 1: when they're experiencing this is please go read the Epic
[27:11] Speaker 1: of Go Gomesh. It's one of the oldest stories ever
[27:14] Speaker 1: and the story, honestly, it starts out with existential dread.
[27:19] Speaker 1: You know, his friend anki do dies, he realizes, oh
[27:23] Speaker 1: my god, if Ankadu can die, that means one day
[27:26] Speaker 1: I'll die. What the fuck do I do now?
[27:28] Speaker 7: Right?
[27:29] Speaker 1: So it's a really cool read from the ancients. It
[27:32] Speaker 1: just lets you know that, like people have been struggling
[27:35] Speaker 1: with our mortality forever, it's never been easy for anybody.
[27:41] Speaker 1: And the fact that you're experiencing some existential dread is
[27:45] Speaker 1: it's not something because you're wrong. It's not because you're
[27:48] Speaker 1: doing anything you shouldn't be doing. It's because that is
[27:50] Speaker 1: what we all go through. I can tell you though,
[27:53] Speaker 1: as somebody who experienced it a long time ago and
[27:55] Speaker 1: already got over it, it doesn't last forever, I promise.
[27:59] Speaker 1: The Sleepless Nights, The Racing Mind that type of stuff,
[28:04] Speaker 1: it goes away. I promise it does. Eventually you can
[28:06] Speaker 1: get back to doing life. But yeah, when you're at
[28:09] Speaker 1: the beginning stages of it, it's terrifying, it's frightening. You're
[28:12] Speaker 1: frustrating because nobody's talking about it. I get it.
[28:21] Speaker 8: Yeah, I completely, I completely agree with you.
[28:25] Speaker 1: But the reality is you're somebody waterfowl that's doing study.
[28:30] Speaker 1: You're reading, you're crunching the numbers, and you're saying, hey,
[28:33] Speaker 1: the math isn't really mathing here, right, And the reality is,
[28:37] Speaker 1: no matter how uncomfortable it is, if you're someone who
[28:40] Speaker 1: has intellectual honesty and intellectual integrity, I mean, at some
[28:45] Speaker 1: point you just have to accept where the evidence leads,
[28:49] Speaker 1: even if it leads somewhere frightening and uncomfortable. And I
[28:51] Speaker 1: would also certainly recommend connecting with like the Freedom for
[28:56] Speaker 1: Religion Foundation and getting some counseling, or my friend doctor
[28:59] Speaker 1: Joe getting some counseling, because the reality is, like therapy
[29:04] Speaker 1: is super important because they help to give you tools
[29:08] Speaker 1: and an ere it's gonna listen to you and provide
[29:11] Speaker 1: you actual good feedback for the things that you're struggling with,
[29:15] Speaker 1: you know.
[29:17] Speaker 9: Yeah, And I've already.
[29:19] Speaker 8: That's part of the reason I called in too, because
[29:22] Speaker 8: I've already taken a lot of those steps. But for me,
[29:25] Speaker 8: I feel like I have my own form of cognitive dissonance.
[29:28] Speaker 8: Like when we were Christians, you know, oh Islam is wrong,
[29:32] Speaker 8: Oh Buddhism's wrong, and this is the only true way.
[29:36] Speaker 8: But when and we're okay telling other people they were wrong,
[29:39] Speaker 8: but when we sit down and we're like, you know
[29:41] Speaker 8: that that night you first slipped down and you're like this,
[29:44] Speaker 8: this doesn't make sense, Like I can't you know, God,
[29:48] Speaker 8: help me understand this, and then you kind of just
[29:50] Speaker 8: go down.
[29:50] Speaker 9: The rabbit hole we went down.
[29:52] Speaker 8: It creates like I feel like I have my own
[29:55] Speaker 8: cognitive dissonance that I'm aware of, and it's it's a
[29:58] Speaker 8: weird feeling.
[29:59] Speaker 1: I think we all I'll do. I think that's normal.
[30:02] Speaker 1: Especially at the beginning phases. You're you're resistant to go,
[30:06] Speaker 1: you know, into the more painful part. You want to
[30:09] Speaker 1: hold on to the part that you like. It comes
[30:12] Speaker 1: with time, toe I mean, in time, the more you
[30:15] Speaker 1: keep studying, the more that comfortable part that you're trying
[30:19] Speaker 1: to hold on to just goes away. Somebody said once
[30:23] Speaker 1: on TikTok, I forget who it was a long time
[30:25] Speaker 1: ago now said, she said, everything that I left behind,
[30:28] Speaker 1: referring to Christianity, everything that I left behind has claw
[30:31] Speaker 1: marks in it. Because that's how all of us deconstructed.
[30:34] Speaker 1: We didn't want to write. We we let go of
[30:37] Speaker 1: one thing at a time until eventually we kind of
[30:41] Speaker 1: realized we are holding on to nothing.
[30:47] Speaker 8: Yeah, and that's pretty much how it's been.
[30:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, doctor Joe, you got any advice.
[30:55] Speaker 2: I do?
[30:56] Speaker 10: I wanted to just say, I.
[30:57] Speaker 1: Can't hear doctor Joe. I can, oh one second, Okay,
[31:05] Speaker 1: now I can hear.
[31:08] Speaker 10: Hey, justin so, I don't want to call you cute
[31:11] Speaker 10: waterfowl because that just sounds patronizing.
[31:14] Speaker 3: So, hey, waterfowl.
[31:17] Speaker 10: I wanted to invite you to, yeah, get some support
[31:21] Speaker 10: through vetted sources, whether that's recovering from religion or other possibilities,
[31:29] Speaker 10: and more generally, I wanted to speak to kind of everybody.
[31:32] Speaker 10: Last time I was up, I said I have a
[31:35] Speaker 10: resource on boundaries for people in the deconstruction process, and
[31:40] Speaker 10: I do, but I started to revise it and it's
[31:43] Speaker 10: turned out to be basically a book. So those who
[31:46] Speaker 10: did contact me, you will be getting that probably this weekend.
[31:51] Speaker 10: I've added an appendix with a lot of different resources,
[31:54] Speaker 10: including books, and a section just for women who are
[32:00] Speaker 10: urging from the trauma of the patriarchy. So I will
[32:04] Speaker 10: get that to anybody who's requested and anybody who will
[32:07] Speaker 10: request from now. But it's a great workbook to begin
[32:12] Speaker 10: processing all of the things that come with deconstruction, and
[32:17] Speaker 10: it's very respectful of people who don't deconstruct to complete
[32:22] Speaker 10: atheism or agnosticism. So it has support if if people
[32:28] Speaker 10: want to continue with some kind of spirituality or or
[32:32] Speaker 10: even faith.
[32:33] Speaker 3: So I wanted to let you know, yeah, and.
[32:37] Speaker 8: I definitely would would like some of those resources too.
[32:40] Speaker 10: Yeah, so you can go to you can friend me,
[32:43] Speaker 10: go to my TikTok, and I'm pretty findable, so you
[32:48] Speaker 10: can you can email me and I will get you
[32:51] Speaker 10: that resource as soon as it's complete.
[32:54] Speaker 8: I don't have a lot of social media. I'm kind
[32:57] Speaker 8: of just like I don't use TikTok or a lot
[32:59] Speaker 8: of other things.
[32:59] Speaker 3: So how I that.
[33:02] Speaker 10: Yeah, so you can just contact me via recovery therapist
[33:10] Speaker 10: at Joanne Ketch j O A N N E K
[33:15] Speaker 10: E T c H dot com. Okay, I have personally
[33:22] Speaker 10: deconstructed my Christianity and later deconstructed my twelve step.
[33:29] Speaker 2: Understanding.
[33:30] Speaker 10: So I've been there personally and along the way got
[33:33] Speaker 10: a master's and a doctorate, and since joining this community,
[33:37] Speaker 10: have developed kind of an unadvertised specialty in supporting people
[33:41] Speaker 10: as they go through it.
[33:44] Speaker 8: Yeah, because I like the biggest part for me is
[33:46] Speaker 8: I ended up learning like two languages because of this.
[33:50] Speaker 8: Like I I dabbled into Greek and then I learned
[33:53] Speaker 8: Biblical Greek, and my Hebrew is you know, because I
[33:57] Speaker 8: speak with a lot of Jewish people.
[33:58] Speaker 9: My Hebrew and Yiddish have and really good.
[34:00] Speaker 8: And it's like now I have these skills that it's like, uh,
[34:05] Speaker 8: but they're.
[34:06] Speaker 1: Still They're still useful, you can still use them. Like so,
[34:09] Speaker 1: as an atheist, I still love reading the Bible. I
[34:12] Speaker 1: love digging into the academic stuff. It's really a lot
[34:15] Speaker 1: of fun. In fact, it's more fun then when I
[34:17] Speaker 1: was a Christian because now I can just read it
[34:19] Speaker 1: for what it is and I don't have to like
[34:21] Speaker 1: make apologies for the horrific genocides or rapes or anything
[34:25] Speaker 1: like that.
[34:28] Speaker 9: Yeah. Definitely.
[34:32] Speaker 8: Well, I just found your YouTube channel Catch and I
[34:35] Speaker 8: subscribe and I'll find all the other links as well.
[34:38] Speaker 2: Do that excellent?
[34:39] Speaker 10: Well, I look forward to hearing from you, and i'll
[34:43] Speaker 10: when you email me, I'll get you that resource as
[34:45] Speaker 10: soon as it's complete.
[34:47] Speaker 8: Alrighty, then, thank you guys for the conversation.
[34:50] Speaker 9: I got to actually head off.
[34:51] Speaker 1: Good friend. That's the luck to you. Here's Deconstruction's hard,
[34:57] Speaker 1: doctor Joe.
[35:00] Speaker 2: It is, and in the early stages, it's brutal.
[35:03] Speaker 10: I feel like there is probably a grief like process
[35:06] Speaker 10: people go through. The five stages of grief has kind
[35:11] Speaker 10: of been debunked, although people go through the bargaining and
[35:14] Speaker 10: the anger.
[35:15] Speaker 2: I think we go.
[35:16] Speaker 10: Through the same thing, you know, especially when it comes
[35:20] Speaker 10: to loss of community and identity and the fear around death,
[35:27] Speaker 10: for sure.
[35:28] Speaker 2: But it is hard.
[35:29] Speaker 10: And what's harder is well, not harder, but what's additionally
[35:37] Speaker 10: challenging is the shakiness with which you feel like you
[35:42] Speaker 10: don't have a foundation anymore on which to make decisions,
[35:46] Speaker 10: on which to connect with people, on which to serve
[35:48] Speaker 10: and to love, and so trying to reconstruct that in
[35:53] Speaker 10: whatever way it works for you is lonely.
[35:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, lonely is a good word for it, very lonely,
[35:59] Speaker 1: and a lot of people do it a lot. Yeah, yeah,
[36:03] Speaker 1: you don't have to come to the deconstruction Zone. We've
[36:05] Speaker 1: got resources, we've got people.
[36:08] Speaker 11: We do, we do.
[36:09] Speaker 2: I didn't, Yeah I had.
[36:10] Speaker 10: I had deconstructed for over thirteen years by the time
[36:14] Speaker 10: I came across our community here, and I didn't know
[36:18] Speaker 10: how much I needed it.
[36:20] Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, we all did well. Thanks start, Joe.
[36:24] Speaker 1: I really appreciate it.
[36:25] Speaker 12: Yeah.
[36:27] Speaker 1: I'm gonna read a couple of super chats and we're
[36:29] Speaker 1: going to get our next guest in here, the on
[36:31] Speaker 1: New Knocker. It should be interesting conversation. Nicholas, thank you
[36:34] Speaker 1: for the Supertestes. If you show up in the deconstruction Zone,
[36:38] Speaker 1: your religious deconstruction begins amazing work. Justin I'm truly impressed. Well,
[36:42] Speaker 1: thank you, Nicholas. I appreciate that. And that is the
[36:45] Speaker 1: case when you when you run into particular sets of information,
[36:50] Speaker 1: it's hard not to deconstruct. My deconstruction started with learning
[36:53] Speaker 1: information and Herbie beautiful kittens. Those are gorgeous kittens.
[36:59] Speaker 3: Thank you.
[37:00] Speaker 1: So the super chest says, what's all this religious talk about?
[37:03] Speaker 1: I came here for kittycam. Actually the kittycam is set up,
[37:06] Speaker 1: but the kittens are they must be napping or something
[37:09] Speaker 1: in the other room. They're not in here right now.
[37:11] Speaker 1: I'm sure they'll they'll come back. They they you know
[37:15] Speaker 1: how they are. They play and then they nap. They play,
[37:17] Speaker 1: and then they nap. They play, and then they nap.
[37:19] Speaker 1: They'll be back and w t think of for the
[37:22] Speaker 1: ten that supertest says. I've been going through sometimes so
[37:25] Speaker 1: bad that I felt my knees and prayed for a miracle.
[37:29] Speaker 1: Almost immediately my boss called and asked if I could
[37:31] Speaker 1: fly out to Little Rock for work praise Doug. Hell yeah,
[37:35] Speaker 1: so you needed some work. You prayed to Doug, you
[37:37] Speaker 1: got some work. That's what I'm talking about. And to
[37:41] Speaker 1: Little Rock no less. If that's not a sign of
[37:44] Speaker 1: Doug's power, what is? And Sentry says, sending my tithe
[37:47] Speaker 1: to the show. Sending my tithes to show respect to
[37:51] Speaker 1: the profit of Doug. Thank you. Also pick up my
[37:54] Speaker 1: new kitten on Monday. Hell yeah, congratulations The shout out
[37:58] Speaker 1: to a fellow rethink cat acchoir. I'm happy for you.
[38:01] Speaker 1: And remember, if you're on the discord, share your kitten pictures.
[38:05] Speaker 1: We'd love to see your kittens and puppers too. We
[38:08] Speaker 1: love kittens. And puppers and fuck babies. I love babies.
[38:12] Speaker 1: Hexas panat or Thinking for the ten that supertech great
[38:14] Speaker 1: to see it says, when you remove religion, you can
[38:16] Speaker 1: create your own purpose exactly. Learning that life can be
[38:19] Speaker 1: unfair and working towards balancing the scales is a great purpose.
[38:23] Speaker 1: Embrace it. I agree, I agree, And again, just because
[38:27] Speaker 1: our purpose doesn't live on for eternity doesn't mean that
[38:30] Speaker 1: we can't define some purpose for us. It means something
[38:33] Speaker 1: to us. Doctor Fudge Thinking for the ten dollars supertest says,
[38:36] Speaker 1: if you recognize that reality is only guided by the
[38:38] Speaker 1: real things within it, you can focus on the forces
[38:43] Speaker 1: that are actually hurting you. For example, just spitball and
[38:46] Speaker 1: Rich all the guards and that's more than a spitball.
[38:49] Speaker 1: I think you know, the doctor fud fucking oligarks Man.
[38:54] Speaker 1: No need no more of that, all right, let me
[38:56] Speaker 1: get on your knocker in here and then we'll keep
[39:00] Speaker 1: the discussions rolling. If you're watching on YouTube, the link
[39:03] Speaker 1: to join is in the description of the video tiny
[39:06] Speaker 1: dot CC four dot DC guess. If you're watching on TikTok,
[39:09] Speaker 1: if you just hit the guests request button down here
[39:11] Speaker 1: on the on the toolbar somewhere on a knocker, welcome in.
[39:14] Speaker 1: Are you at least eighteen? And do you believe in God?
[39:17] Speaker 3: Yep? Yep?
[39:18] Speaker 13: Uh yeah, I'm out of crossroads?
[39:22] Speaker 1: Okay? And what God? Do you believe in?
[39:26] Speaker 13: The Christian God?
[39:28] Speaker 3: Okay?
[39:29] Speaker 1: You said you're at a crossroads? Though you mean you're you're.
[39:32] Speaker 13: Da It's like, yeah, I'm not sure.
[39:35] Speaker 12: It's because like sometimes because I grew hopefully I don't disconnect,
[39:40] Speaker 12: but what's it called? So I grew up in the
[39:42] Speaker 12: Eastern Orthodox Church, right, I went there for over a decade, right,
[39:47] Speaker 12: and it was a good community and all that, Like
[39:49] Speaker 12: they never said anything crazy to me, uh Like, it
[39:51] Speaker 12: was actually a pretty good overall experience.
[39:53] Speaker 13: It was a really good community. We did good things.
[39:56] Speaker 12: But even when I would go there and like praying things,
[39:59] Speaker 12: sometimes I would like think to myself, like, you know,
[40:01] Speaker 12: is this even like actually real, just because like some
[40:04] Speaker 12: of the things that would happen in the Bible just
[40:06] Speaker 12: wouldn't make too much sense to me, And especially like
[40:09] Speaker 12: when you a cross examine that with like scientific facts
[40:13] Speaker 12: and things like that, it'd be like, wait, how the
[40:15] Speaker 12: hell can this happen?
[40:16] Speaker 13: So it just be super confusing for me.
[40:19] Speaker 12: Because I'd ask like sometimes, like for example, when I
[40:23] Speaker 12: went to elementary school, we had like this club after
[40:25] Speaker 12: school and it was like about the Bible and stuff,
[40:27] Speaker 12: and I'd ask them some questions about like you know,
[40:29] Speaker 12: space and stuff like that, and they just gave me
[40:31] Speaker 12: like weird responses that wouldn't make sense. Like for example,
[40:35] Speaker 12: I was like, wait, how can God exists? And stuff
[40:38] Speaker 12: like that, and then it was like kind of a
[40:39] Speaker 12: childish thing, but I was like, wait, if black holes exist,
[40:41] Speaker 12: how can God exist? And they're like, yeah, black holes
[40:44] Speaker 12: don't exist because they caused destruction and God doesn't cause destruction.
[40:49] Speaker 12: And there was like things like that that didn't really
[40:51] Speaker 12: make much sense to me.
[40:53] Speaker 13: Uist Yeah, yeah, I know that.
[40:57] Speaker 12: It's like I would bring that up to them and
[40:58] Speaker 12: then they would just like say they can't this because
[41:01] Speaker 12: nothing can be created from destruction and things like that,
[41:06] Speaker 12: so that that like didn't make much sense to me.
[41:08] Speaker 13: And also.
[41:11] Speaker 12: Yeah, it's like I said, similar to like the last guy,
[41:14] Speaker 12: it's like an existential thing. It's like, man, also, I
[41:18] Speaker 12: don't really want to burn in health he Israel, and
[41:20] Speaker 12: I also don't want to, you know, just like be
[41:23] Speaker 12: believing in something that's not necessarily true, you know what
[41:25] Speaker 12: I mean.
[41:26] Speaker 1: Right, let me ask you a question about hell then,
[41:28] Speaker 1: because to me, I think hell is the easiest problem
[41:31] Speaker 1: to deal with. For example, Yeah, in in whatever definition
[41:37] Speaker 1: of justice you have access to, do you think it's
[41:39] Speaker 1: just to punish somebody we're merely not believing something?
[41:44] Speaker 13: Uh, I think?
[41:46] Speaker 12: No, I mean, are you talking about I'm okay, I'm
[41:49] Speaker 12: not kind of going death.
[41:50] Speaker 13: But no, it's not it's not good.
[41:51] Speaker 3: No, Right.
[41:52] Speaker 1: So for example, yeah, if you ran into a guy
[41:54] Speaker 1: in the street and the guy in the street didn't
[41:57] Speaker 1: believe that that you were real, You're like, well, you
[42:02] Speaker 1: can't go out and slug him just because he doesn't
[42:04] Speaker 1: believe that you're real. He could think that your computer simulation.
[42:08] Speaker 1: That's just that's just what he believes. Like, you can't
[42:10] Speaker 1: control that kind of stuff, right, So the idea that
[42:13] Speaker 1: like God needs to torture people for eternity in hell
[42:16] Speaker 1: because they didn't believe the right thing, it seems asinine.
[42:21] Speaker 11: Yeah.
[42:21] Speaker 12: The explanation I've heard for that is that if you
[42:24] Speaker 12: were like delivered the message right and they don't believe
[42:26] Speaker 12: in it, then you'd go to hell. And then I
[42:29] Speaker 12: would bring up like, for example, because all like the
[42:32] Speaker 12: you know, Abrahamic religion started like in the Middle East,
[42:34] Speaker 12: you know, they spread to like Europe, you know, parts
[42:36] Speaker 12: of Asia, things like that, Africa. But I would ask
[42:38] Speaker 12: him like, how about the people like in you know,
[42:41] Speaker 12: the Americas and stuff like that, who didn't have access
[42:43] Speaker 12: to that? And then they would give me the explanation
[42:45] Speaker 12: that like, I mean, you know, America is Australia, all
[42:48] Speaker 12: those places. They'd say that they those those people also
[42:51] Speaker 12: had messengers, but they just chose to ignore them and
[42:54] Speaker 12: it's And then I would ask like, was that ever
[42:56] Speaker 12: like stated in the Bible, Like how would we know
[42:59] Speaker 12: they even had messagers and things like that? And then
[43:01] Speaker 12: they would just say like, oh, it happened, But you
[43:04] Speaker 12: know it doesn't It doesn't necessarily have to be in
[43:06] Speaker 12: the Bible. But the you know, the Gospel was brought
[43:08] Speaker 12: to everybody in a way, and I don't know that. Yeah,
[43:10] Speaker 12: didn't make too much sense to me.
[43:12] Speaker 1: They have to make stuff up to justify the nonsense
[43:15] Speaker 1: of the book. But listen, even if a messenger did
[43:18] Speaker 1: come and tell them and they're like now that that's bullshit,
[43:21] Speaker 1: that still doesn't mean they should be tortured with fire
[43:24] Speaker 1: for eternity. What a nonsensical thing to believe it? And
[43:28] Speaker 1: it's not even part of Judaism. Like so this idea
[43:30] Speaker 1: that like God had to send somebody to save you
[43:34] Speaker 1: from the hell fire is fiction. Is fiction. There's nothing
[43:38] Speaker 1: in the Old Testament where God's like, well you don't
[43:41] Speaker 1: believe the right thing, I got to torture forever now,
[43:43] Speaker 1: that's just not in there.
[43:45] Speaker 12: Yeah, And it's also like when you think about I mean,
[43:49] Speaker 12: because you know, the Bible's livestly based on the Earth
[43:51] Speaker 12: and you know, a creation here, but then like you know,
[43:54] Speaker 12: once we discovered like you know, there's like two trillion galaxies,
[43:57] Speaker 12: and then within those galaxies it's like hundreds of billions
[43:59] Speaker 12: of stars, you know, just age I don't even know what, huge,
[44:03] Speaker 12: huge number of exo planets and things like that. It's like,
[44:06] Speaker 12: why would that all be created necessarily if, like, you know,
[44:10] Speaker 12: God's creation, it should be like focused on Earth's, Like,
[44:13] Speaker 12: so what's up with all these excel planets and you
[44:15] Speaker 12: know galaxies and stuff like that, like where they just
[44:17] Speaker 12: put there just for us to like observe them, not
[44:19] Speaker 12: necessarily do anything with it, because you know, it's not
[44:23] Speaker 12: like they're ever going to be able to reach those places.
[44:24] Speaker 1: So it's like I agree, Like what's the point of
[44:27] Speaker 1: all those planets? Why what are they doing?
[44:30] Speaker 3: Right?
[44:30] Speaker 1: Like, Yeah, it's such a silly, such a silly thing
[44:34] Speaker 1: to create, you know, trillions of such still bodies. Uh,
[44:38] Speaker 1: and then in fact have nothing to do with you,
[44:42] Speaker 1: like human beings or like your actual purpose of creation.
[44:46] Speaker 14: Yeah.
[44:47] Speaker 12: And then like I think my biggest thing, which this
[44:50] Speaker 12: is like the biggest question I've ever like I had,
[44:53] Speaker 12: like I'm not gonna act like I'm some Bible scholar
[44:55] Speaker 12: and stuff like that, and there's like things I don't
[44:59] Speaker 12: necessarily know about it. But like one thing I couldn't
[45:02] Speaker 12: really wrap my head around is because like when they
[45:04] Speaker 12: talk about the ten come in miss right, one of
[45:06] Speaker 12: them is is thou should not kill right, And I don't,
[45:10] Speaker 12: like I couldn't just or I don't know how that
[45:12] Speaker 12: would justify the flood. And then people always bring this
[45:14] Speaker 12: up like the I'm not I'm gonna sure you used
[45:17] Speaker 12: to talk friendly language, but like the g side of
[45:19] Speaker 12: the Amaleki it's right and stuff like that, and it's uh,
[45:22] Speaker 12: people say it was because like it was a following
[45:23] Speaker 12: world and things like that, and like that was in
[45:26] Speaker 12: the Old Testament, so that when it makes sense to me,
[45:30] Speaker 12: and then it also seems like, you know, the god
[45:32] Speaker 12: of the Old Testament seems like he just wants to
[45:34] Speaker 12: like destroy everything, or he's like like more wrathful and stuff,
[45:38] Speaker 12: and then the one of the New Testaments like kind
[45:40] Speaker 12: of nicer.
[45:41] Speaker 13: So I just don't understand how.
[45:43] Speaker 12: You could even like un all people, you know, including
[45:45] Speaker 12: woman and children and things like that when they didn't
[45:47] Speaker 12: do anything.
[45:48] Speaker 13: So it's like, you, yeah, you could, you could he
[45:50] Speaker 13: justify that?
[45:51] Speaker 1: And if you're if you're yahweh, and you're like, listen,
[45:54] Speaker 1: this lineage needs to die, right, Yeah, you can do
[45:57] Speaker 1: it without war.
[45:59] Speaker 3: Right.
[45:59] Speaker 1: You can just close the wombs of all the women
[46:01] Speaker 1: and then they can no longer reproduce the next generation. Right,
[46:04] Speaker 1: there's so many that you can make all the men infertile, right,
[46:08] Speaker 1: Like slaughtering and genociding an entire population is never necessary
[46:13] Speaker 1: when you're all powerful. The reason why the genocide stories
[46:16] Speaker 1: exist is because there was probably a genocide at some
[46:19] Speaker 1: point and they needed to justify it. Okay, well, what's
[46:22] Speaker 1: the excuse? How do we justify it? And then they
[46:25] Speaker 1: make up a backstory for its justification. The same way
[46:28] Speaker 1: that the German people needed a backstory, They needed mythology
[46:33] Speaker 1: about the Jews to justify what they were doing to
[46:36] Speaker 1: the Jews. So you know, the reality is, I mean,
[46:40] Speaker 1: if there's a historical kernel in here anywhere, it's just
[46:43] Speaker 1: that some people committed a genocide and needed an excuse
[46:46] Speaker 1: for it.
[46:47] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[46:47] Speaker 12: And then also I don't remember the names, but I
[46:50] Speaker 12: think in the Bible there's like someone has to sacrifice
[46:53] Speaker 12: their son because God said so, and then he like
[46:54] Speaker 12: says not to it.
[46:55] Speaker 13: Then, oh, Abraham, were those people of them?
[46:57] Speaker 3: Abraham?
[46:58] Speaker 12: And then I think it was a son isaacorrect if
[47:00] Speaker 12: I'm not wrong, or it was a son right, And
[47:02] Speaker 12: then I'm thinking, like, you know, if I was you know,
[47:07] Speaker 12: you know, if I had a son and stuff, it's
[47:08] Speaker 12: like if someone told me to sacrifice my son forgot,
[47:11] Speaker 12: Like I don't know how.
[47:14] Speaker 13: Someone could do that.
[47:16] Speaker 12: And then I asked my dad, who's like a Christian,
[47:18] Speaker 12: about it, and I don't know, like my dad's a Christian,
[47:20] Speaker 12: but like sometimes I bring stuff up and he just says,
[47:22] Speaker 12: like it didn't happen, even though it's like in the Bible,
[47:24] Speaker 12: like I asked him about like the flood and stuff,
[47:27] Speaker 12: and he was like, yeah, that's like not really what happened.
[47:29] Speaker 12: But it's like I don't know how Like he's a
[47:31] Speaker 12: Christian stuff and he's like religious, but it's like he
[47:34] Speaker 12: denies somethings in the Bible. But like if he deny
[47:36] Speaker 12: some things in the Bible, does that make you not Christian?
[47:40] Speaker 1: I mean kind of. There's a lot of approaches to
[47:42] Speaker 1: the Bible. Some people are biblical literists, some people are
[47:45] Speaker 1: Biblical minimalists, and you know, there's a whole lot in between.
[47:51] Speaker 3: You know.
[47:51] Speaker 1: One of my professors for the Hebrew Bible was he
[47:56] Speaker 1: was like somewhere in the middle, and so like he
[47:59] Speaker 1: would he would probably say that what there wasn't like
[48:02] Speaker 1: a literal Adam in the right. The story was meant
[48:05] Speaker 1: to be a theological story, not a historical story. But
[48:08] Speaker 1: obviously this is nonsense because the rest of the Bible
[48:11] Speaker 1: treats it like it's literal. So it's like, in order
[48:13] Speaker 1: to say that you have to get rid of like
[48:15] Speaker 1: Jesus' genealogy, you have to get rid of Paul's reasoning.
[48:19] Speaker 1: In First Thessalonians chapter two or Onest Timothy chapter two,
[48:23] Speaker 1: he talks about how women need to like shut up
[48:26] Speaker 1: and sit down and be quiet and serve their husbands
[48:28] Speaker 1: because he was the one who ate the fruit first. So, like,
[48:32] Speaker 1: you know, the New Testament treats it like it's historical,
[48:35] Speaker 1: which means if if you run into somebody who thinks
[48:38] Speaker 1: that it's just a theological story rather than the historical story,
[48:42] Speaker 1: you know, it's not that they're not Christian, it's just
[48:44] Speaker 1: that they haven't read the New Testament at all.
[48:47] Speaker 12: Yeah, it's because when people talk about like reading the
[48:49] Speaker 12: Bible literally versus metaphorically, sometimes when they bring certain things up,
[48:53] Speaker 12: it feels like a cop out, if you know what
[48:54] Speaker 12: I mean. Like for example, when they talk about what
[48:58] Speaker 12: was it like the Leviathan inside the Bible, and they're like, oh, yeah,
[49:00] Speaker 12: that was just like the dinosaurs and stuff. And then
[49:02] Speaker 12: like when they just talk about like the like how
[49:06] Speaker 12: they're eart to six thousand years old, some people, like
[49:08] Speaker 12: some people will say that, and then other people will
[49:10] Speaker 12: be like, uh, I mean and they get that number
[49:12] Speaker 12: like going through like genealogies and things like that, and
[49:15] Speaker 12: other people will say, oh, and it was just metaphorical,
[49:17] Speaker 12: like you know, God didn't create the world. And you know, however,
[49:20] Speaker 12: many like a week right it was actually like a
[49:22] Speaker 12: metaphor for billions of years and things like that, and
[49:24] Speaker 12: it's I don't necessarily get like how they would attribute,
[49:30] Speaker 12: Like I feel like they pick and choose, like certain
[49:32] Speaker 12: things could be metaphors and other things are literal, and
[49:36] Speaker 12: I don't know.
[49:36] Speaker 13: I feel like.
[49:38] Speaker 12: It is just you know, picking and choosing certain things
[49:41] Speaker 12: to you know, fit your narrative because like I like,
[49:45] Speaker 12: it's hard to imagine because I think Eve was born
[49:48] Speaker 12: from like Adam's rib, right, Like obviously you can't be
[49:50] Speaker 12: born from like a rib and things like that, and
[49:52] Speaker 12: then Adam was created from dust, right if I'm not mistaken,
[49:55] Speaker 12: like the dirt. So I'm thinking like, like how can
[50:00] Speaker 12: being how can I be creative from the durt and
[50:03] Speaker 12: that being metaphor?
[50:03] Speaker 13: Like does that mean because we know, like through evolution
[50:06] Speaker 13: and things like that, right, we had.
[50:07] Speaker 12: Like a common ancestor with like you know, other primates
[50:09] Speaker 12: and or I think we are primates, but you know,
[50:12] Speaker 12: we had like a common ancestor and then you know,
[50:14] Speaker 12: at some point like we split and stuff like that,
[50:16] Speaker 12: and then there's like the whole thing. But then I
[50:20] Speaker 12: don't know, like and where would you like fit in
[50:21] Speaker 12: Neanderthals and all those types of people, like because I mean,
[50:24] Speaker 12: I think Theanderthals and what other other ones, Dennis evens
[50:28] Speaker 12: whatever they are, Like, I'm pretty sure they spoke languages too,
[50:33] Speaker 12: so were they just like I don't know, Like what
[50:36] Speaker 12: are they feeling if they're because we we also, I mean, these.
[50:39] Speaker 1: Are real good questions. It sounds like you're you're getting
[50:42] Speaker 1: towards the tail end of verdict journey. So just hang
[50:45] Speaker 1: in there. You'll you'll get to a place where you're
[50:47] Speaker 1: more comfortable. I know you're in a crossroads now.
[50:50] Speaker 13: But yeah, it's kind of scary thinking about it, Like
[50:52] Speaker 13: if I guess I'm wrong, but.
[50:54] Speaker 1: It is scary. But there's nothing to be scared of,
[50:56] Speaker 1: because if hell doesn't exist, you don't have to be
[50:58] Speaker 1: scared of it, right, So you don't have but like
[51:00] Speaker 1: force your fear of hell to go away. It'll go
[51:02] Speaker 1: away all on its own. The more you dig into it,
[51:05] Speaker 1: the more you realize how fake everything is, you'll just
[51:08] Speaker 1: naturally stop being afraid of hell. Like what percentage one
[51:12] Speaker 1: out of one hundred are you afraid of the Muslim hell?
[51:16] Speaker 15: Uh?
[51:17] Speaker 13: I mean some of them say there is hell. Some
[51:19] Speaker 13: of them say there is in Hell.
[51:20] Speaker 1: So no, you what percentage of fear do you have
[51:23] Speaker 1: towards the Muslim helm.
[51:26] Speaker 12: I mean they say it's the same hell, So I
[51:27] Speaker 12: mean I guess, like I don't know, it's just a
[51:31] Speaker 12: random no, jeez.
[51:32] Speaker 1: Do you think there's a thirty percent chance that Muslims
[51:35] Speaker 1: could be right?
[51:37] Speaker 13: Okay, I mean okay, there's like a very low chance,
[51:41] Speaker 13: low chance.
[51:42] Speaker 2: Right.
[51:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not afraid of Muslim Hell because you don't
[51:44] Speaker 1: believe in Muslim health, the same reason why you're not
[51:47] Speaker 1: afraid of any other concept of hell, because you don't
[51:49] Speaker 1: believe in that.
[51:50] Speaker 3: Right.
[51:50] Speaker 8: But the more you.
[51:51] Speaker 1: Study, the less Yeah, the less you believe. Hell's not
[51:55] Speaker 1: gonna be a problem for you. So just you're you're
[51:57] Speaker 1: doing fine, You're gonna get there. It doesn't happen night,
[52:00] Speaker 1: you know.
[52:01] Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean it just sucks. Everything's just gonna turn
[52:04] Speaker 12: to black one day and it's like it's wraps.
[52:06] Speaker 1: Yeah that sucks.
[52:08] Speaker 3: No one likes that.
[52:09] Speaker 12: Yeah, but thank you, like for you kind of justifying
[52:12] Speaker 12: like what I'm thinking. Uh, you know, people try to
[52:16] Speaker 12: make you think you're crazy for like thinking there's no God,
[52:18] Speaker 12: but it's like, I don't know, it's it's very hard
[52:20] Speaker 12: to think about.
[52:21] Speaker 1: But math, the math is math. That's fine.
[52:26] Speaker 13: Thank you, man. Have a good day, Matt.
[52:30] Speaker 1: A lot of people deconstructing right now.
[52:32] Speaker 5: Huh hey, Bud, how you doing?
[52:36] Speaker 1: Can't be better? How you doing? Don't?
[52:39] Speaker 3: Well?
[52:40] Speaker 16: I kind of don't have a job anymore, so fu
[52:43] Speaker 16: what happened? Well, new bosses came in and they were
[52:47] Speaker 16: just so horrible to my mother that I I quit.
[52:51] Speaker 16: So now we're gonna be doing.
[52:53] Speaker 1: This full time. Hell yeah, Okay, it sounds like we
[52:57] Speaker 1: need to sorry, been kind of and I don't think
[53:00] Speaker 1: we really need to hook up tomorrow and get your
[53:03] Speaker 1: gear working.
[53:03] Speaker 16: Right, absolutely, yeah, and I'll have all the time in
[53:07] Speaker 16: the world tomorrow.
[53:09] Speaker 1: Okay, we will in fact make it happen tomorrow. Will
[53:12] Speaker 1: take care of it. Guys, while we're bringing up an guest,
[53:16] Speaker 1: make sure you're following Dalton on TikTok and YouTube the
[53:19] Speaker 1: Bible Guy Official on YouTube, and we gotta get his
[53:23] Speaker 1: YouTube career jump started fast. It sounds like, but man,
[53:28] Speaker 1: a huge, huge, thank you for standing up for your mom.
[53:31] Speaker 1: I mean, it needs to happen, Cameron, thank you for
[53:35] Speaker 1: the twenty dollars. Super chat friend says hello, justin. I
[53:37] Speaker 1: don't have anything to say. I just want to support
[53:39] Speaker 1: your hard work. I am addicted to your show. Well, shit, Cameron,
[53:42] Speaker 1: thank you. I really appreciate that. It's very generous of you,
[53:45] Speaker 1: and we're glad that you're here. Friend, And Kohota's with
[53:49] Speaker 1: us tonight as well, says Parking my rig for Thanksgiving
[53:52] Speaker 1: and gonna try cracking. How do you recommend it now, Kohoto,
[53:55] Speaker 1: big w for trying to crack. And there's a lot
[53:57] Speaker 1: of ways to enjoy it. You can even mix it
[54:01] Speaker 1: into like a homemade white Russian. My favorite way is
[54:05] Speaker 1: to just have it straight up. And if you're not
[54:07] Speaker 1: used to something with that high of ABV, you know,
[54:11] Speaker 1: you could put a piece of ice in it. That
[54:13] Speaker 1: would be fine too. But I mean I just I
[54:16] Speaker 1: just sip it. But I just pour a little bit
[54:18] Speaker 1: in a glass.
[54:18] Speaker 14: I sip.
[54:19] Speaker 1: It's delicious. And if you don't like rum, then you
[54:23] Speaker 1: might you might not want to sip it. You might
[54:25] Speaker 1: want to mix it. You can mix it with coke
[54:26] Speaker 1: if you want to water it down and be fine.
[54:29] Speaker 1: Pardon old chimp thinking for the twenty dollars super Chat
[54:31] Speaker 1: my friends is sharing some birthday money as tied to
[54:34] Speaker 1: God and his prophet. Well, thank you rock Hard for Doug,
[54:38] Speaker 1: g for j Gay for Justin. I love that we're
[54:41] Speaker 1: now shortening gay for Justin ad thing. My only birthday
[54:45] Speaker 1: wishes are for bourbon and baby paste. One down, one
[54:49] Speaker 1: to go. Well, listen, you got the bourbon already. We
[54:52] Speaker 1: will make baby paste happen tonight. We'll see what we
[54:54] Speaker 1: can do about that.
[54:55] Speaker 13: Friend I haven't gone for a week.
[54:57] Speaker 16: Is some new lore eve Ben drop that.
[55:00] Speaker 13: I've missed out on?
[55:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, it was on one of the weekend streams I think.
[55:05] Speaker 1: On the line somebody was accusing me of turning dudes
[55:10] Speaker 1: gay with my atheism and said, good, I hope I've
[55:13] Speaker 1: turned him gay. Gay for Justin, and then it just stuck.
[55:16] Speaker 1: It's been going so now. Hashtag gay for Justin is
[55:20] Speaker 1: the thing and it's a thing of beauty. Actually, gotta
[55:24] Speaker 1: get those t shirts made? Uh and last one for
[55:27] Speaker 1: now from our friend Jude Drew. Thank you so much
[55:30] Speaker 1: for the fifty dollars super chat. That is huge. I
[55:34] Speaker 1: appreciate that Big Big W says ties for the cat
[55:37] Speaker 1: gods indeed indeed, which coincidentally is also Doug and Sharon.
[55:42] Speaker 1: So let's get our first guest in here. I'm gonna
[55:46] Speaker 1: grab our first guest, second, third, and fourth guest. I
[55:48] Speaker 1: don't know. I'm gonna grab Riley from the queue. Riley
[55:52] Speaker 1: has got the camera on. He looks like he's actually
[55:55] Speaker 1: ready to jump in the conversation. It looks like he's
[55:59] Speaker 1: got hardware plug in. He's an iPad or something. So
[56:02] Speaker 1: let's see if all of this stuff works. How you doing, Riley?
[56:06] Speaker 1: I'm well, how are you doing?
[56:08] Speaker 4: Well?
[56:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome, All your hardware is working, so we're good
[56:10] Speaker 1: to go. Riley, are you at least eighteen? And do
[56:13] Speaker 1: you believe in God?
[56:15] Speaker 2: I am at least eighteen, but I don't believe in God. Oh.
[56:19] Speaker 2: I was just I've been watching it for a while
[56:22] Speaker 2: and I was just wondering if I could ask you
[56:23] Speaker 2: a few questions.
[56:24] Speaker 1: Well, Riley, I'm going to be doing a Q and
[56:26] Speaker 1: A really soon, in fact, this upcoming week. If you
[56:29] Speaker 1: want to drop in and ask questions, everyone here on
[56:32] Speaker 1: Friday night is to see the debates. Also, I do
[56:36] Speaker 1: have a discord in an email if you just want
[56:38] Speaker 1: to pop in and ask some questions as well. That's
[56:41] Speaker 1: that's certainly something you can do.
[56:43] Speaker 3: Okay, cool?
[56:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, So sorry you waited in line for that. But yeah,
[56:48] Speaker 1: unfortunately that mean the it's a debate show, you know
[56:51] Speaker 1: what I mean.
[56:52] Speaker 5: No, I want to respect that.
[56:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but I'll post him in the in the
[56:57] Speaker 2: discorder or find the email.
[56:58] Speaker 1: Yeah you can. You can d M me from the discord.
[57:02] Speaker 1: It'd be deconstruction dot Zone I think is my handle.
[57:06] Speaker 2: Okay, cool, all right, thank you.
[57:11] Speaker 1: It's a Shamie was a nice young man. But we
[57:13] Speaker 1: gotta get we gotta get some theist callers and we'll
[57:17] Speaker 1: we'll keep the ball rolling here. I think speaking of
[57:21] Speaker 1: non theists, we've got a friend in the house. Welcome Jim.
[57:28] Speaker 3: Hey, how's it going.
[57:30] Speaker 1: Good to see bud, Jim.
[57:31] Speaker 3: You followed me over here. Well, yeah, I would just
[57:37] Speaker 3: like to disagree with you on one thing. Zaia is
[57:41] Speaker 3: better than racking. I'm not saying cracking is bad. I'm
[57:44] Speaker 3: just saying zia is batter.
[57:46] Speaker 1: Well, sorry, Jim's about to get yeated. It'd be okay,
[57:52] Speaker 1: it'd be okay, Jim, It'll be okay. Jim, come in
[57:55] Speaker 1: hand with us. I'm going to bring in what I
[57:57] Speaker 1: think is I don't know, probably at although I'm pretty
[58:01] Speaker 1: sure I've talked to this guest before Shem, Child of
[58:05] Speaker 1: Jesus is coming in, Shem, welcome in. Are you at
[58:09] Speaker 1: least eighteen? And do you believe in God?
[58:12] Speaker 3: Thank? You think?
[58:12] Speaker 11: Yeah, I'm I'm twenty five and I believe in God.
[58:17] Speaker 1: Yeah. And we've talked before, haven't we.
[58:23] Speaker 11: You're talking to me?
[58:25] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[58:27] Speaker 11: What did you say?
[58:29] Speaker 1: I said, You and I have talked before.
[58:31] Speaker 3: Haven't we? Yeah?
[58:33] Speaker 11: Yeah, I've been in your life too.
[58:35] Speaker 3: I thought. I think.
[58:36] Speaker 1: Okay, So what is your best evidence or argument for
[58:42] Speaker 1: your particular god existing, the Christian God? I assume?
[58:46] Speaker 11: Yeah, my best evidence is my quinscience.
[58:50] Speaker 1: You're conscience? Oh boy, what does your conscience have to
[58:52] Speaker 1: do with God?
[58:55] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[58:55] Speaker 11: I mean the Bible says you that the gorual of
[58:59] Speaker 11: the command the is you know, love that comes from
[59:03] Speaker 11: a good quinscience and pure heart.
[59:07] Speaker 1: And since your faith, you know, Yeah, Why do I
[59:10] Speaker 1: care what the Bible says?
[59:12] Speaker 11: The other Bible says in first two monity?
[59:14] Speaker 1: If you have read the goal of my question was,
[59:18] Speaker 1: why should I care what the Bible says?
[59:22] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[59:23] Speaker 11: I mean, if you are, like, if you believe in
[59:25] Speaker 11: humility and humanity.
[59:28] Speaker 1: I do believe in humanity. I don't believe in the Bible.
[59:31] Speaker 1: So why would I believe that the Bible is true
[59:34] Speaker 1: when it's demonstrably not? Yeah, I mean you you need to.
[59:43] Speaker 11: Uh, you know to you need to believe in humility
[59:48] Speaker 11: and humanity.
[59:49] Speaker 3: I do.
[59:50] Speaker 1: I believe in both those things. But again, why would
[59:52] Speaker 1: I believe that the Bible is true when I can
[59:54] Speaker 1: demonstrate it to not be true?
[59:58] Speaker 11: Do you believe working in love?
[1:00:01] Speaker 7: Is? Uh?
[1:00:03] Speaker 3: The whip?
[1:00:03] Speaker 7: Do you do?
[1:00:04] Speaker 1: You think this is an answer to the question.
[1:00:10] Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean you're asking me why you should believe in.
[1:00:14] Speaker 1: The Yeah, I'm saying, give me a reason why I
[1:00:16] Speaker 1: would believe that the Bible is true because I don't
[1:00:18] Speaker 1: believe that the Bible is true.
[1:00:22] Speaker 11: Okay, so what do you what is your belief?
[1:00:26] Speaker 2: Then?
[1:00:27] Speaker 11: What do you believe is true?
[1:00:29] Speaker 2: Not?
[1:00:29] Speaker 13: The Bible is true?
[1:00:31] Speaker 1: And also that doesn't answer the question. Again, the question
[1:00:34] Speaker 1: is what would compel one to believe that the Bible
[1:00:37] Speaker 1: is true? I mean, because it is true, it's not true.
[1:00:47] Speaker 1: In fact, the first page of the New Testament starts
[1:00:50] Speaker 1: out by saying things that are not true. There's like
[1:00:53] Speaker 1: five different blunders on the very first page. I'm gonna
[1:00:56] Speaker 1: read some of the problems with you. Do you already
[1:01:01] Speaker 1: gonna do it. So Matthew Chapter one, the Genealogy of Jesus,
[1:01:07] Speaker 1: who is, according to Matthew, the father of Jack Andiah.
[1:01:14] Speaker 11: The father of Jaconam.
[1:01:17] Speaker 13: This is very hard to know.
[1:01:19] Speaker 1: It's on the screen. You can read the screen.
[1:01:23] Speaker 11: Yeah, and Josiah the father of ja and his brother
[1:01:27] Speaker 11: at the time of the deportation.
[1:01:29] Speaker 1: Indeed, yeah, is it true that Josiah was the find
[1:01:35] Speaker 1: Why are you caring about two people? Or you'll find
[1:01:39] Speaker 1: out if you pay attention. So is it true that
[1:01:43] Speaker 1: Josiah is the father of jack Andiah?
[1:01:48] Speaker 11: I mean it is written.
[1:01:51] Speaker 1: Well, the answer is no, it's not true. If you
[1:01:53] Speaker 1: go to the actual genealogy and the rest of the
[1:01:56] Speaker 1: of the Bible, what you'll find is that Josiah was
[1:01:59] Speaker 1: the grand father other of Jack Andyah. In First Chronicles,
[1:02:03] Speaker 1: says the sons of Josiah were Johannan the first born,
[1:02:07] Speaker 1: the second, Jehoia Kim, the third, Zedekiah the fourth Shaloum.
[1:02:11] Speaker 1: The descendants of Jehoia Kim include Jack Andyah his son
[1:02:15] Speaker 1: and Zedekiah his son. So it was the the grandson
[1:02:20] Speaker 1: of Josiah. He got it wrong.
[1:02:24] Speaker 11: Yeah, But faith, he's bigger than jokin.
[1:02:28] Speaker 1: Faith I have failed. Okay, So okay, so then who
[1:02:35] Speaker 1: got it? Who got it wrong? Was it the chronicler
[1:02:38] Speaker 1: or Matthew?
[1:02:40] Speaker 11: I mean, you know Bible. The Bible is written so
[1:02:44] Speaker 11: that we can have peace.
[1:02:45] Speaker 1: It's not so I'll ask you the same question. Who
[1:02:48] Speaker 1: got it wrong? The chronicler or Matthew?
[1:02:56] Speaker 11: Yeah? I mean you're going to like people.
[1:03:00] Speaker 1: It's weird that you haven't answered the question yet. Those
[1:03:04] Speaker 1: two stories can't both be true. So which one got
[1:03:10] Speaker 1: it wrong? Was it whoever wrote Matthew? Or was it
[1:03:13] Speaker 1: whoever wrote chronicles? This question is very hard to It's
[1:03:22] Speaker 1: not hard.
[1:03:24] Speaker 13: Let's talk about just.
[1:03:27] Speaker 1: We are talking about general things. So one of them
[1:03:30] Speaker 1: is wrong? Correct?
[1:03:34] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[1:03:34] Speaker 1: I mean she's like two people.
[1:03:36] Speaker 11: That's their name is named in the Bible.
[1:03:38] Speaker 5: Right.
[1:03:39] Speaker 1: Interesting that you didn't give me an answer the question.
[1:03:42] Speaker 1: One of them is wrong?
[1:03:43] Speaker 3: Correct?
[1:03:47] Speaker 1: Wonderful? One of the authors is wrong about the father
[1:03:53] Speaker 1: of Jack and Noiah.
[1:03:54] Speaker 3: Correct?
[1:03:57] Speaker 1: It might be No, it definitely is.
[1:04:02] Speaker 11: I don't you know, to be honest with you, I
[1:04:04] Speaker 11: don't really care about the genuine like genuine Yeah.
[1:04:09] Speaker 1: I know you don't care. I know you don't care
[1:04:12] Speaker 1: because you don't like what's true. You believe that just
[1:04:16] Speaker 1: having faith in something makes it true, and I don't
[1:04:19] Speaker 1: it does. So the reality is, if there's a contradiction
[1:04:22] Speaker 1: in the book, one of the propositions must be false.
[1:04:26] Speaker 1: In fact, probably fucking both of them are false. But
[1:04:29] Speaker 1: at least one of them has to be false. They
[1:04:30] Speaker 1: can't both be true. So either Johoya Kim is the
[1:04:34] Speaker 1: father of Jack Andiah or Josiah is the father of
[1:04:36] Speaker 1: Jack and Aiah, one of those two things is true.
[1:04:41] Speaker 1: Can I ask you a question, Is it gonna be
[1:04:45] Speaker 1: related to the father of Jack and Iiah, because that's
[1:04:47] Speaker 1: what we're talking about right now.
[1:04:49] Speaker 11: Yeah, it's gonna be related to our conversation.
[1:04:52] Speaker 1: Is it gonna be related to Jack and Iiah though?
[1:04:57] Speaker 5: Is?
[1:04:57] Speaker 11: Yeah, it's kind of I.
[1:05:02] Speaker 1: I know if you say something that's unrelated, I'm going
[1:05:04] Speaker 1: to bring it right back to it.
[1:05:05] Speaker 3: Sham.
[1:05:06] Speaker 1: We do this every time you come up. Every time
[1:05:08] Speaker 1: you come up, I end up cutting you because you
[1:05:10] Speaker 1: can't focus.
[1:05:13] Speaker 11: I'm focusing, But you're asking me very hard questions.
[1:05:16] Speaker 1: Like they're not hard questions, you just don't like the
[1:05:19] Speaker 1: answer to them.
[1:05:21] Speaker 11: I'm answering, But how can I know about Jack and
[1:05:24] Speaker 11: I and.
[1:05:26] Speaker 1: Josiah because the book tells you. It's okay if you
[1:05:30] Speaker 1: haven't read the book. Most people haven't.
[1:05:32] Speaker 11: But so who is the father of Jesus?
[1:05:37] Speaker 1: Who's the father of Jack and I Am?
[1:05:41] Speaker 11: They are not important, they are going to be judged.
[1:05:43] Speaker 1: Like they are important, asking who's the father of Jack
[1:05:47] Speaker 1: and I Am?
[1:05:53] Speaker 11: But it's you say in your screen.
[1:05:56] Speaker 1: Okay, So then then the Book of Chronicles is wrong.
[1:06:04] Speaker 11: The Book of Chronicles is wrong.
[1:06:07] Speaker 1: I'm asking you if the Book of Chronicles wrong because
[1:06:09] Speaker 1: it says Joey like.
[1:06:12] Speaker 11: You, it might be like one meaning wrong. Right, the
[1:06:15] Speaker 11: Bible is.
[1:06:15] Speaker 1: Written each like I mean, clearly one of them. Clearly
[1:06:18] Speaker 1: one of them has to be wrong. I'm just asking
[1:06:20] Speaker 1: you which one is it? Chronicler, like you.
[1:06:29] Speaker 11: Know, to be honest with you, I'm not like a
[1:06:31] Speaker 11: person that knows details, so much details.
[1:06:34] Speaker 1: And you're done here, buddy, Sorry, I don't know if
[1:06:41] Speaker 1: you're ever worth bringing up. Just don't request again. You're
[1:06:44] Speaker 1: nice enough, But like every time we talk, it ends
[1:06:47] Speaker 1: in the same way. You can't track, follow or have
[1:06:50] Speaker 1: a conversation, which means you're really in the wrong place
[1:06:54] Speaker 1: for this.
[1:06:55] Speaker 16: Like not not even a GPS could help that guy
[1:06:58] Speaker 16: not get lost.
[1:07:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, like he came. He always comes in half asleep
[1:07:05] Speaker 1: and mostly concussed, and I'll never understand why he thinks
[1:07:09] Speaker 1: that he's going to like win people over for Jesus.
[1:07:11] Speaker 1: But I'm gonna grab this a couple of super tracks
[1:07:14] Speaker 1: and then we're going to get based Alex Warner into
[1:07:18] Speaker 1: the guest box next get thank you for the supertests. Frequently,
[1:07:21] Speaker 1: I frequently argue with my friends on the prophecy of Jesus.
[1:07:25] Speaker 1: How can I rebutt them when he says that the
[1:07:27] Speaker 1: New Testament is the prophecy, thank you for your time. Well,
[1:07:30] Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know how he could fulfill
[1:07:32] Speaker 1: messianic prophecies that didn't exist until after he was dead.
[1:07:36] Speaker 1: The New Testament certainly is not a prophecy. If Jesus
[1:07:39] Speaker 1: fulfilled prophecies, we need evidence that the prophecy was written
[1:07:42] Speaker 1: prior to him being alive. And the reality is nothing
[1:07:45] Speaker 1: in the New Testament pre existed Jesus actually as a
[1:07:48] Speaker 1: human being. So that means you must turn to the
[1:07:52] Speaker 1: Old Testament to find out where those messianic prophecies are.
[1:07:55] Speaker 1: You can't just attribute prophecies to post resurrection Jesus and
[1:08:00] Speaker 1: do Gold. Great to see him, my friend. I hope
[1:08:02] Speaker 1: you're doing well, it says, Hey, friend, I have a
[1:08:04] Speaker 1: few bucks, finally have some. Well, thank you dude, Goald.
[1:08:06] Speaker 1: It's good to hear from you. I hope you're doing well.
[1:08:09] Speaker 1: And dark Ether Princess says ex Messianic Jew. Oh, that's exciting.
[1:08:14] Speaker 1: Deconstructed it and deconverted almost five years ago. So much
[1:08:17] Speaker 1: happier since then. Rock hard for Doug. Well, I'm glad
[1:08:19] Speaker 1: to hear it.
[1:08:20] Speaker 14: I do know.
[1:08:21] Speaker 1: I feel like Messianic Messianic Jews are already in the
[1:08:27] Speaker 1: process of deconstruction, which is how they came to Messianic
[1:08:31] Speaker 1: Judaism in the first place. But I don't know how
[1:08:33] Speaker 1: long they stay in it. I've seen a lot of
[1:08:35] Speaker 1: people drop out for good reasons. Ancient flames. Good to
[1:08:39] Speaker 1: see your friend, says, what do you say to those?
[1:08:41] Speaker 1: All those other culture stories point to God being real.
[1:08:45] Speaker 1: Some just corrupted the truth. Well, I mean the reality
[1:08:48] Speaker 1: is we could just say the same thing about them,
[1:08:51] Speaker 1: Like if you're talking to a believer and like, well
[1:08:54] Speaker 1: they had the truth and they corrupted it. Well, who,
[1:08:57] Speaker 1: First of all, you can't prove it. Second of all,
[1:08:59] Speaker 1: what would stop me for saying you corrupted the truth right, Like,
[1:09:02] Speaker 1: if you can make assertions without evidence, then I can
[1:09:05] Speaker 1: make assertions without evidence. I mean, anyone can do that.
[1:09:09] Speaker 1: It's not even hard. And uh, White Magics has been
[1:09:14] Speaker 1: going through it so bad lately. I prayed for a miracle.
[1:09:17] Speaker 1: Not a minute later, my boss called and asked me
[1:09:19] Speaker 1: to help out in Little Rock praise, Like, wait, Magic,
[1:09:21] Speaker 1: I think, I think, didn't you send this super chat twice?
[1:09:25] Speaker 1: You did well. I appreciate you sending it twice. You
[1:09:28] Speaker 1: didn't have to. We we definitely were going to read
[1:09:31] Speaker 1: it eventually. I'm sorry we don't read them immediately when
[1:09:33] Speaker 1: we get them, but we appreciate that. And last one
[1:09:35] Speaker 1: from our friend doctor h Wassemblea again says for the
[1:09:39] Speaker 1: kiddies in the Kittie Cam, they help us get through
[1:09:43] Speaker 1: the tough times like fiel Bro moments. I know the
[1:09:46] Speaker 1: kiddies should be back anytime now. They're downstairs, fucking probably
[1:09:51] Speaker 1: playing in the litter box. Am I the only one
[1:09:54] Speaker 1: that's got cats that feel like it's okay to play
[1:09:56] Speaker 1: in the litter box because I have to bathe them
[1:09:58] Speaker 1: like every day. It's starting to get pretty crazy. But
[1:10:00] Speaker 1: like I don't remember any of my cats when I
[1:10:02] Speaker 1: was younger doing this, it seems like it's specifically these two.
[1:10:08] Speaker 1: All right, we've got based in here.
[1:10:11] Speaker 14: Let me see.
[1:10:12] Speaker 1: Is it based Alex? How you doing, Alex?
[1:10:14] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's based Alex. Like, you can just call me Alex.
[1:10:17] Speaker 1: I mean right, Alex.
[1:10:19] Speaker 2: I was. I had to come up with the name.
[1:10:20] Speaker 1: I came up with that fair enough. Are you at
[1:10:23] Speaker 1: least eighteen? And do you believe in God?
[1:10:25] Speaker 2: Yeah? I'm thirty eight and I'm a Christian, okay.
[1:10:28] Speaker 1: And what's the best evidence or argument for the Christian
[1:10:31] Speaker 1: God being real?
[1:10:33] Speaker 15: Yeah?
[1:10:33] Speaker 2: So I was on Ian's Live earlier and I was
[1:10:36] Speaker 2: talking to him. I'm so I think something that he
[1:10:40] Speaker 2: said that you and I have something in common. I'm
[1:10:44] Speaker 2: not good at philosophy. I took like a semester of
[1:10:46] Speaker 2: semester of philosophy in college and was like this, this
[1:10:49] Speaker 2: literally makes no sense to me. But the historical textual
[1:10:54] Speaker 2: criticism I do enjoy and so and that's something that
[1:10:58] Speaker 2: I like. And so anyways, Ian was like, you should
[1:11:04] Speaker 2: talk to this guy, and I was like, okay, cool,
[1:11:08] Speaker 2: So I'm here. And one of the things that I
[1:11:10] Speaker 2: talked about the Ian was just Gary Havermasts like the
[1:11:13] Speaker 2: minimal facts argument, and I wanted and we had a
[1:11:16] Speaker 2: discussion about it, but I wanted to get your take
[1:11:18] Speaker 2: on Gary Havermast's minimal facts.
[1:11:22] Speaker 14: Yeah.
[1:11:22] Speaker 1: Well, first of all, I think he's a goof and
[1:11:24] Speaker 1: his research is never up to his advertising. He claims
[1:11:29] Speaker 1: that he's got all these testimonials from other scholars. He doesn't.
[1:11:34] Speaker 1: He claims that all scholars agree on his set of
[1:11:36] Speaker 1: minimal facts. They don't. The reality is, I don't think
[1:11:41] Speaker 1: I personally don't take Gary Haveermat seriously. And the reality is, like,
[1:11:45] Speaker 1: we've got tons of other resurrection accounts from ancient Greece
[1:11:49] Speaker 1: and Rome. Like, it's not like the resurrection of Jesus
[1:11:51] Speaker 1: was somehow unique. There's a bunch of people that claim
[1:11:53] Speaker 1: to resurrect some of them from quite a bit of witnesses.
[1:11:57] Speaker 1: In fact, Herodotus recawards the resurrection of one Aristius, as
[1:12:03] Speaker 1: does Theodorus and Plutarch. We've got, uh, I mean, we've
[1:12:09] Speaker 1: got so many ancient people that resurrected. I don't know
[1:12:11] Speaker 1: why I would believe specifically in just the Jesus one.
[1:12:17] Speaker 2: Okay, I mean I know that there was a claim
[1:12:19] Speaker 2: that Nero resurrected. So I'm aware of that claim which
[1:12:24] Speaker 2: freaked the hell out of Christians and everything, which rightfully so.
[1:12:28] Speaker 2: I mean, if you're being turned into Roman candles, I
[1:12:30] Speaker 2: would definitely be freaked out as well.
[1:12:32] Speaker 1: I mean, that's why he shows up in Revelation thirteen.
[1:12:35] Speaker 1: Revelation thirteen is clearly a reference to Nero six sixty
[1:12:39] Speaker 1: six in the Greek.
[1:12:40] Speaker 2: And fully fully agree with you. The number, the name.
[1:12:45] Speaker 2: The letters in Euro match the numbers in Hence why
[1:12:49] Speaker 2: six one six and six sixty six like match the
[1:12:52] Speaker 2: letter like I think? If so, I'm not mistaken. The
[1:12:55] Speaker 2: letters in Greek match six one six. The letters in
[1:13:01] Speaker 2: in Latin so much six six six, But I'm not sure.
[1:13:05] Speaker 1: The Greek is all over the place. The Latin says
[1:13:08] Speaker 1: six one six, because the Latinized spelling of Nero's name
[1:13:11] Speaker 1: is Nero kaiser, the same way we'd pronounce it, it
[1:13:14] Speaker 1: comes out to six one six the Greek. The Greek
[1:13:18] Speaker 1: is neuron kaiser because they've got a nominal ending that
[1:13:22] Speaker 1: they Latin doesn't have, not the same one, and so
[1:13:25] Speaker 1: when you do ca matria on that, it comes out
[1:13:27] Speaker 1: to six sixty six. That being said, there is one
[1:13:31] Speaker 1: manuscript that says six one six even in the Greek,
[1:13:36] Speaker 1: and there's an additional manuscript that says six six which
[1:13:41] Speaker 1: comes out to Gaias Kaiser, the nickname for Caligula, which
[1:13:47] Speaker 1: was another Caesar that persecuted the Jewish people, and so
[1:13:52] Speaker 1: in the Christians, well.
[1:13:54] Speaker 2: Mostly the Christians.
[1:13:56] Speaker 1: I mean, he did persecute Jews.
[1:13:59] Speaker 2: You are correct, he did persecute Jews.
[1:14:01] Speaker 1: I mean, is there anybody that kill didn't persecute?
[1:14:05] Speaker 2: Well, that is true. I mean he seems to be
[1:14:07] Speaker 2: a pretty evil dude. But so when it.
[1:14:11] Speaker 1: Comes to just but when it comes but my point,
[1:14:14] Speaker 1: but my point, Alex, and I don't want to, you know,
[1:14:17] Speaker 1: derail your talking point. But like if Revelation thirteen is
[1:14:22] Speaker 1: supposed to be about how Nero is the Antichrist and
[1:14:25] Speaker 1: he revived from the immortal wound, this means like the
[1:14:30] Speaker 1: predictions and Revelation were nonsense, they didn't come true.
[1:14:35] Speaker 2: Revelation is a very interesting book to study. It's almost
[1:14:42] Speaker 2: a direct there's a I mean, if if you were
[1:14:46] Speaker 2: to if that book was to be written now, you
[1:14:48] Speaker 2: would accuse that book of straight up plagiarism from certain
[1:14:51] Speaker 2: because of its almost direct quotations from the Old Testament
[1:14:56] Speaker 2: in certain books like it would be accused of almost
[1:14:58] Speaker 2: plagiarism immediately.
[1:15:00] Speaker 1: I'm not that I'm about I know, but I mean, there.
[1:15:06] Speaker 2: Are certain prophecies that I think have come true. I
[1:15:09] Speaker 2: think a large portion of Revelation has come true already.
[1:15:13] Speaker 2: I'm not a dispensationalist, I'm not a zionist. I'm not
[1:15:16] Speaker 2: any of those things. I would classify myself mostly as
[1:15:19] Speaker 2: like a millennial. So Jesus is ruling on his throne
[1:15:23] Speaker 2: from the moment that he went to heaven, and so
[1:15:25] Speaker 2: he'll come when he comes back, like everything ends.
[1:15:29] Speaker 1: What's the proof that Jesus is on the throne.
[1:15:34] Speaker 2: The fact that he's been I would go to Matthew
[1:15:36] Speaker 2: like twenty eight the Great Commission where he says, like
[1:15:38] Speaker 2: all authority on heaven, in and earth has.
[1:15:40] Speaker 11: Been done to me.
[1:15:42] Speaker 1: The proof that he's on the throne is that a
[1:15:43] Speaker 1: book says.
[1:15:44] Speaker 2: So I mean, I'm okay, yeah.
[1:15:49] Speaker 1: The difference, the difference that we have here is like
[1:15:52] Speaker 1: you're going to say, well, this stuff in Revelation came
[1:15:54] Speaker 1: true because other parts of the Bible says that it
[1:15:57] Speaker 1: will or it did come true. But I'm asking like,
[1:16:00] Speaker 1: in reality, what is the evidence that any of it
[1:16:03] Speaker 1: came true? Because when I read the book, it's full
[1:16:06] Speaker 1: of failed predictions. Jesus said he was coming back within
[1:16:08] Speaker 1: the lifetime of the disciples in Matthew sixteen, Matthew ten,
[1:16:11] Speaker 1: and Matthew twenty four, and he just didn't do it.
[1:16:14] Speaker 1: And the guy couldn't read the Hebrew Bible to save
[1:16:17] Speaker 1: his life. He misquotes it, he adds to it, he
[1:16:21] Speaker 1: only reads it in Greek. He has a fundamental misunderstanding
[1:16:24] Speaker 1: of what prophecy even means. Like the New Testament is
[1:16:29] Speaker 1: just a goof It's written by a bunch of people
[1:16:31] Speaker 1: who didn't know a single thing about the Jewish religion.
[1:16:38] Speaker 2: I mean, okay, when it comes to the prophecy that
[1:16:44] Speaker 2: Jesus would come back in the lifetime of the disciples,
[1:16:48] Speaker 2: correct me if I'm wrong. But Matthew twenty four, that's
[1:16:51] Speaker 2: the all of it discourse, is it not?
[1:16:52] Speaker 1: It is?
[1:16:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So what Jesus. What I would argue there
[1:16:58] Speaker 2: is Jesus is saying that within the lifetime of the
[1:17:02] Speaker 2: disciples this is going to happen, like all of this
[1:17:07] Speaker 2: must be filled, be fulfilled before you die. He's not
[1:17:11] Speaker 2: necessarily saying I will return. Like when this happens, He's
[1:17:15] Speaker 2: just saying, all of this has to be fulfilled, and
[1:17:18] Speaker 2: that's the destruction of the temple. And basically I mean
[1:17:21] Speaker 2: the ending of the ending of the Jewish sacrificial system.
[1:17:25] Speaker 1: Well, no, no, Jesus never said once about the end
[1:17:28] Speaker 1: of the Jewish sacrificial system. Not a single thing ever
[1:17:31] Speaker 1: left his mouth about that. That's something that comes after
[1:17:33] Speaker 1: his death. But in Matthew twenty four he talked about
[1:17:36] Speaker 1: the suffering. It says immediately after the suffering of those days,
[1:17:40] Speaker 1: the sun will be darken, the moon will not give
[1:17:42] Speaker 1: its light, the stars will fall from heaven, and the
[1:17:44] Speaker 1: powers of heaven will be shaken. Then the sign of
[1:17:47] Speaker 1: the Sun of Man will appear in heaven, and all
[1:17:49] Speaker 1: the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will
[1:17:51] Speaker 1: see the son of a man coming on the clouds
[1:17:53] Speaker 1: of heaven with power and great glory.
[1:17:55] Speaker 2: Did that happen, I mean, according to Josephus, they definitely,
[1:18:03] Speaker 2: they definitely saw.
[1:18:05] Speaker 1: Did all the tribes of the earth morn when they
[1:18:07] Speaker 1: saw Jesus riding on the clouds. I don't know.
[1:18:16] Speaker 2: I don't know how to do that. There's a lot
[1:18:18] Speaker 2: of interpretation that could go there. But I mean, I'm
[1:18:20] Speaker 2: going to say, we haven't seen that. We haven't seen that.
[1:18:23] Speaker 2: But according to Josephus, when when recording the destruction of
[1:18:27] Speaker 2: the Temple and the siege of Jerusalem, they did see
[1:18:30] Speaker 2: like angel figures, like in the clouds.
[1:18:34] Speaker 1: Sure, and stuff like that. So and Josephus has a
[1:18:38] Speaker 1: really fanciful edition of seventy a d. And that's great,
[1:18:44] Speaker 1: but it doesn't fix what Jesus said in Matthew twenty four,
[1:18:46] Speaker 1: which is that the second coming, the Son of Man,
[1:18:50] Speaker 1: as we read in Daniel chapter seven, is going to
[1:18:53] Speaker 1: happen within the lifetime of the disciples. In fact, he
[1:18:55] Speaker 1: says it in two chapters later, chapter twenty six, he
[1:18:58] Speaker 1: tells a high priest that henceforth you will see the
[1:19:01] Speaker 1: Son of Man coming on the clouds of glory, so
[1:19:03] Speaker 1: on and so forth. So this this is the judgment scene.
[1:19:06] Speaker 1: Chapter twenty four, chapter twenty five, and chapter twenty six
[1:19:10] Speaker 1: are all about the judgment Jesus coming back and judging.
[1:19:14] Speaker 1: This is all one discourse. Chapter twenty four doesn't end
[1:19:17] Speaker 1: the discourse. It goes on in the chapter twenty five
[1:19:20] Speaker 1: and he says when the Son of Man comes with
[1:19:23] Speaker 1: the angels in the glory of his father. He will
[1:19:26] Speaker 1: bring all people to him and he's going to separate
[1:19:29] Speaker 1: the sheep from the goats. Right, this was all supposed
[1:19:31] Speaker 1: to happen within the lifetime of his audience.
[1:19:36] Speaker 2: Okay, I mean I don't have I'm gonna be honest
[1:19:41] Speaker 2: with you. I don't have any information on that. I
[1:19:44] Speaker 2: don't to be frank and honest, I don't think there's anything.
[1:19:48] Speaker 2: I'm a Christian like through and through, like I believe.
[1:19:55] Speaker 2: I don't know. You can say it's for comfort. You
[1:19:57] Speaker 2: could say it's for whatever, Like I mean to be frank,
[1:20:00] Speaker 2: I don't really care what you what you think. Why
[1:20:02] Speaker 2: I believe. I believe because I think it to be true.
[1:20:05] Speaker 2: Like I believe that Jesus Christ resurrected from the dead
[1:20:08] Speaker 2: from after being crucified on the cross. So like there's
[1:20:11] Speaker 2: certain things and then I see certain things in the
[1:20:14] Speaker 2: Old Testament that confirmed this.
[1:20:17] Speaker 1: But Jesus didn't fulfill a single Messianic prophecy, not one.
[1:20:21] Speaker 2: He did fulfill a Messianic prophecy. I don't know if
[1:20:24] Speaker 2: that he fulfilled several Messianic prophecies.
[1:20:27] Speaker 1: My counts at zero. Which one did he fil.
[1:20:31] Speaker 2: Uh, the one from Zechariah about riding on the colt
[1:20:35] Speaker 2: like Israel, your your king comes writing to you on
[1:20:39] Speaker 2: a on the colt.
[1:20:40] Speaker 1: Of a donkey Zacharian nine.
[1:20:43] Speaker 2: Yeah, did he not fulfill that one? Did?
[1:20:45] Speaker 1: I know when I wrote a donkey that you.
[1:20:49] Speaker 16: Know it's justin it's crazy. I'm not super like, I'm
[1:20:53] Speaker 16: not a big student of history. But did Jesus cut
[1:20:56] Speaker 16: off the war horse from if I am?
[1:20:58] Speaker 1: As it turns out, I don't believe he did. In
[1:21:01] Speaker 1: First ten says he would. He will cut off the
[1:21:05] Speaker 1: chariot from Ephriam, and the war horse from Jerusalem, and
[1:21:08] Speaker 1: the battle bow shall be cut off, and he shall
[1:21:10] Speaker 1: command peace to the nations, and his dominion shall be
[1:21:13] Speaker 1: from c to sea, from the river to the ends
[1:21:15] Speaker 1: of the earth. But it's an earthly kingdom. After he
[1:21:18] Speaker 1: defeats Israel's enemies, That's why it says, here comes your king,
[1:21:22] Speaker 1: triumphant in victorious. Well, yeah, he's trumpet in victorious because
[1:21:25] Speaker 1: the motherfucker just defeated all of his enemies. So like,
[1:21:28] Speaker 1: just didn't do that just because the dude wrote a donkey,
[1:21:32] Speaker 1: I mean, impressively rode two donkeys. According to Matthew doesn't
[1:21:35] Speaker 1: mean if he filled his prophecy.
[1:21:42] Speaker 2: Okay, I mean I then why does Matthew quote it?
[1:21:47] Speaker 2: Or why do several of the other gospel writers quote
[1:21:50] Speaker 2: it when they when they when they do this story
[1:21:54] Speaker 2: because they're goofballs.
[1:21:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, they're idiots. They have no idea what they're doing.
[1:21:59] Speaker 1: A dude riding a donkey doesn't become a king because
[1:22:02] Speaker 1: he's on a donkey, and he doesn't fulfill the prophecy
[1:22:05] Speaker 1: of defeating enemies of Israel by writing the donkey. Again, listen,
[1:22:09] Speaker 1: I've written a donkey. That doesn't make me the fulfillment
[1:22:12] Speaker 1: of this prophecy.
[1:22:14] Speaker 2: Yeah, but you didn't have, like you weren't going into Jerusalem.
[1:22:18] Speaker 1: So what you've already decided that you don't have to
[1:22:21] Speaker 1: You've already told me you don't have to fulfill all
[1:22:23] Speaker 1: the points of the prophecy. You can fulfill just one
[1:22:26] Speaker 1: point of the prophecy and fulfill it. So the fact
[1:22:29] Speaker 1: that it's in Jerusalem is irrelevant. I fulfilled at least
[1:22:32] Speaker 1: a part where I wrote the donkey.
[1:22:38] Speaker 3: Where you write two animals at the same time, not
[1:22:41] Speaker 3: just a donkey, to fulfill two different so called prophecies.
[1:22:45] Speaker 2: What's that.
[1:22:49] Speaker 3: Two different animals. One was a donkey, I forget what
[1:22:52] Speaker 3: the other one was into Jerusalem to fulfill two different prophecies.
[1:22:57] Speaker 3: It's almost like the guys writing Book two knew about
[1:23:00] Speaker 3: the prophecies in Book one and tried to make them fulfilled.
[1:23:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, and not only that, I've got I've got thousands
[1:23:08] Speaker 1: of subjects. Put a put a k in the comments.
[1:23:11] Speaker 1: If I'm your king, there's a lot of case.
[1:23:19] Speaker 2: Did we just have a whole day about none of those?
[1:23:23] Speaker 1: Yeah? So anyways, my point is he's only a spiritual king,
[1:23:28] Speaker 1: so it doesn't count. Oh so my point is, like
[1:23:41] Speaker 1: you just didn't fulfill zach Ryan nine. The prophecy is
[1:23:44] Speaker 1: about a real, actual king on the actual earth that
[1:23:48] Speaker 1: defeats Israel's enemies. So if he doesn't do that, he
[1:23:51] Speaker 1: didn't fulfill the prophecy.
[1:23:54] Speaker 2: But he did defeat Israel's he did, like you're he
[1:23:58] Speaker 2: did defeat the But he defeated the greatest enemy.
[1:24:01] Speaker 1: No he did not, Yes he did, No, he did not.
[1:24:05] Speaker 1: He just he defeated nothing, say, and is still roaring
[1:24:09] Speaker 1: around like a lying seeking who he made devour. He
[1:24:12] Speaker 1: didn't do shit.
[1:24:17] Speaker 2: I would beg the I mean, yes, but I know
[1:24:21] Speaker 2: it's different that he that he that he did defeat
[1:24:25] Speaker 2: sin and death.
[1:24:27] Speaker 1: No he didn't. They didn't need to be defeated. You
[1:24:31] Speaker 1: don't have to defeat death. Yahweh already said he would
[1:24:35] Speaker 1: resurrect the righteous. Nobody has to die for that. His
[1:24:38] Speaker 1: death was silly, it accomplished nothing. Well, Yahweh was Yahweh
[1:24:45] Speaker 1: was already going to resurrect the righteous at the end,
[1:24:48] Speaker 1: and nobody had to die for it.
[1:24:50] Speaker 2: Yeah, but now we get to the Proto Gospel.
[1:24:53] Speaker 1: No, you don't get to the Proto Gospel.
[1:24:55] Speaker 2: Well, I mean yeah, because the Proto Gospel Genesis three
[1:24:59] Speaker 2: fifteen clear really says that the seat of a woman
[1:25:01] Speaker 2: will wash the head of the serpent.
[1:25:04] Speaker 1: Where do they get these bad talking points from. It's
[1:25:07] Speaker 1: crazy to.
[1:25:07] Speaker 16: Me, as wow, this is literally I was literally just
[1:25:11] Speaker 16: making this topic on my lie, like thirty pence ago.
[1:25:13] Speaker 3: It's crazy, and I was just kind of wondering, Uh,
[1:25:17] Speaker 3: the way I read that it's supposed to be snakes
[1:25:19] Speaker 3: fighting humans, which means that the authors of Genesis don't
[1:25:23] Speaker 3: know anything about constructors.
[1:25:26] Speaker 1: Yeah, so, like the reality is Genesis is referring to
[1:25:30] Speaker 1: the relationship between snakes and human beings. In fact, the
[1:25:35] Speaker 1: entity here is definitely a snake and not Satan. It
[1:25:39] Speaker 1: says the Lord God said to the woman, what is
[1:25:42] Speaker 1: it that you have done? The woman said to the serpent, said,
[1:25:44] Speaker 1: the serpent tricked me, and I ate. And the Lord
[1:25:47] Speaker 1: God said to the serpent, because you have done this,
[1:25:49] Speaker 1: cursed to you among all animals and among wild creatures.
[1:25:51] Speaker 1: On your belly you shall go. Nakes crawl under belly.
[1:25:55] Speaker 1: Nakes are part of the animals. Nakes are wild creatures.
[1:25:59] Speaker 1: Why would God punish all snakes if snakes didn't have
[1:26:03] Speaker 1: a damn thing to do with the garden. If this
[1:26:06] Speaker 1: was Satan doing it. What a weird thing that God
[1:26:08] Speaker 1: would punish snakes and not Satan.
[1:26:14] Speaker 3: Uh. What is the word?
[1:26:18] Speaker 2: So, what's the Hebrew word for snake? That's that's right.
[1:26:26] Speaker 2: Nakash is the Hebrew word for uh for snake. They're
[1:26:34] Speaker 2: meant to give the not an idiom, I guess a
[1:26:41] Speaker 2: metaphor for saying that he he is cursed, that Satan
[1:26:46] Speaker 2: is cursed.
[1:26:48] Speaker 3: Type of thing.
[1:26:49] Speaker 1: Nope, this is snake.
[1:26:51] Speaker 2: No, yeah, I mean I I don't know. There could
[1:26:57] Speaker 2: be a lot of there could There could a lot
[1:27:00] Speaker 2: of poetry there, especially when you look at biblical poetry
[1:27:04] Speaker 2: in the way that that that is that is spoken
[1:27:08] Speaker 2: by God. There it could be there is some poetry
[1:27:13] Speaker 2: into that, uh into that in the way that it's written.
[1:27:17] Speaker 1: I don't find this to be poetic at all. This
[1:27:20] Speaker 1: is just a story, uh other like other ancient neuristern
[1:27:24] Speaker 1: stories about the relationship between snakes and human beings. In fact,
[1:27:28] Speaker 1: in the echip I'm sorry epic of Gogomesh, we find
[1:27:32] Speaker 1: something similar when he gets the plant of immortality from
[1:27:36] Speaker 1: the Sea of Death and is sitting down by the shore,
[1:27:39] Speaker 1: he has it snatched away, stolen from him by a
[1:27:42] Speaker 1: wily snake. There's a bunch of like stereotypes in the
[1:27:45] Speaker 1: ancient Near East of snakes kind of being the enemy
[1:27:48] Speaker 1: of mankind because they're they're tricky, and they're slithery, and
[1:27:53] Speaker 1: you don't really see them coming, and so what better
[1:27:57] Speaker 1: enemy to put into the story? O then what we
[1:28:01] Speaker 1: already know from ancient Mesopotamia, because the first eleven chapters
[1:28:05] Speaker 1: of Genesis, almost everything in it is a mirror of
[1:28:09] Speaker 1: Babylonian mythology. The first eleven chapters are just a playbook
[1:28:13] Speaker 1: of them riffing on the Babylonians.
[1:28:16] Speaker 2: So some of it you're you're correct, You're you're right.
[1:28:20] Speaker 2: Some of it is, uh, is that way I mean,
[1:28:23] Speaker 2: but it's not a it's not a direct copy of
[1:28:26] Speaker 2: the Epic of Gilgamesh.
[1:28:27] Speaker 1: No, No, I'm not saying it's a direct copy. What
[1:28:29] Speaker 1: I'm saying is they're they're taking these mythologies of the
[1:28:32] Speaker 1: Babylonians and they're reworking them, and they're saying, no, here's
[1:28:36] Speaker 1: how it really happened. It's like they're they're polemicizing the
[1:28:40] Speaker 1: Babylonian mythologies. And that's fine, you know you can do that.
[1:28:44] Speaker 1: But because I know that that is what they're they're doing,
[1:28:47] Speaker 1: because I've read the Babylonian literature, then obviously the snake
[1:28:51] Speaker 1: is just a snake. It's there's no Satan to be blamed.
[1:28:54] Speaker 3: Here, okay.
[1:28:57] Speaker 2: And so then the crushing of the head and him
[1:29:01] Speaker 2: striking the heel, what is what's the symbolism with that then,
[1:29:04] Speaker 2: because if that's the poetry, then that's.
[1:29:06] Speaker 1: How you kill a snake. But why would he be
[1:29:12] Speaker 1: That's why ancient people are depicted as treading on the
[1:29:14] Speaker 1: heads of snakes in the ancient world, gonna you kill
[1:29:18] Speaker 1: us to stop on them?
[1:29:20] Speaker 16: So the category of This text is what we call
[1:29:24] Speaker 16: an ideology. It's just a story that's meant to give
[1:29:28] Speaker 16: like a explanation for certain phenomenons. So like, why do
[1:29:32] Speaker 16: women have pain when they give birth? Why do men
[1:29:35] Speaker 16: struggle when they reap from the field, why do they
[1:29:38] Speaker 16: sweat from the broad they work for their food? Why
[1:29:40] Speaker 16: do we tread upon snakes? The whole purpose of the
[1:29:43] Speaker 16: Genesis story is meant to serve as an ideology for
[1:29:46] Speaker 16: all these different phenomenon.
[1:29:51] Speaker 3: Hold on, yeah, no, the first several chapters are well,
[1:30:01] Speaker 3: go ahead.
[1:30:01] Speaker 2: I was just gonna oh, no, no, go on. Sorry,
[1:30:04] Speaker 2: my wife just asked me to watch my daughter for
[1:30:05] Speaker 2: a bit.
[1:30:06] Speaker 3: I go ahead. Respond to Dalton.
[1:30:10] Speaker 2: So were you so were you saying that it's like
[1:30:14] Speaker 2: an idiom? No?
[1:30:15] Speaker 16: No, no, an ideology?
[1:30:17] Speaker 2: What is an ideology? So is that ideology? Because I
[1:30:21] Speaker 2: know what ideology means.
[1:30:23] Speaker 16: No, no, no. An ideology is just a story that's
[1:30:26] Speaker 16: created in order to like give an explanation for like
[1:30:31] Speaker 16: a certain condition or phenomenon within the world life.
[1:30:35] Speaker 3: For example, why is it that.
[1:30:37] Speaker 16: The ancient sites don't eat a certain ligament from the
[1:30:40] Speaker 16: hip bone. Well, you create a story about Jacob wrestling
[1:30:43] Speaker 16: with an angel and dislocates as hip, and that's why
[1:30:46] Speaker 16: we do this. But in this case, it's giving an
[1:30:48] Speaker 16: explanation for why humans are hostile towards snakes and why
[1:30:52] Speaker 16: snakes are hostile towards humans.
[1:30:56] Speaker 2: Okay, all right?
[1:31:00] Speaker 3: And then if, as admitted the first what eleven chapters
[1:31:06] Speaker 3: are all risks on Babylonian stories, then how do we
[1:31:10] Speaker 3: know that any of that actually sets up any of
[1:31:14] Speaker 3: the preconditions for Jesus Christ and the New Testament.
[1:31:18] Speaker 2: Well, because Jesus believed him, like Jesus clearly believed them,
[1:31:22] Speaker 2: Jesus believe in mythology.
[1:31:26] Speaker 3: Does that make the pathology true? And then that would
[1:31:28] Speaker 3: be the Babylonian mythology, wouldn't it.
[1:31:31] Speaker 2: Well, No, because there's a clear difference, like unless you're billy, uh, Billy,
[1:31:36] Speaker 2: what's his face?
[1:31:37] Speaker 6: That debated?
[1:31:37] Speaker 3: What's up?
[1:31:38] Speaker 2: Uh? There's a clear difference between the Epic of gyogamesh
[1:31:43] Speaker 2: And and the Genesis story.
[1:31:46] Speaker 3: We keep using the word riff and and takes on
[1:31:49] Speaker 3: and things like that, So nobody here is actually saying
[1:31:52] Speaker 3: that it's word for word, but I am saying that
[1:31:55] Speaker 3: if they if they copied in some way the stories
[1:31:59] Speaker 3: from Babylon and Jesus believe them. Does that mean that
[1:32:02] Speaker 3: the Babylon pantheon exists?
[1:32:06] Speaker 2: Well, no, but doesn't don't all don't all like mythology
[1:32:10] Speaker 2: stories have like some truth to them, Like can't we
[1:32:13] Speaker 2: all agree that there's like a little bit of truth
[1:32:15] Speaker 2: in like every mythology story, like something something was true
[1:32:20] Speaker 2: in that mythology story, not all of it. So like
[1:32:22] Speaker 2: a great example would be like the Iliad. And do
[1:32:26] Speaker 2: you think the Battle of Troy?
[1:32:28] Speaker 1: Do you think the Hindu mythologies are true?
[1:32:33] Speaker 2: I don't really know a ton about the Hindu mythologies,
[1:32:36] Speaker 2: to be frank and aust with you, so I can't.
[1:32:39] Speaker 2: I can't speak on those.
[1:32:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, they're large.
[1:32:42] Speaker 3: Actually got got you out of the quandary I was asking.
[1:32:46] Speaker 3: But if it's all mythology, isn't that just what Jesus
[1:32:51] Speaker 3: is in the New test.
[1:32:52] Speaker 2: Well no, because Jesus, Jesus clearly seems to be different
[1:32:57] Speaker 2: from every other like biblical prophet, biblical judge, all of that.
[1:33:04] Speaker 1: Different.
[1:33:06] Speaker 2: Well, okay, different in the fact that he is able
[1:33:11] Speaker 2: to forgive sins, but nobody else is able to forgive sins.
[1:33:15] Speaker 2: That's he's able.
[1:33:16] Speaker 1: He's not able to forgive sins. He's a goof so.
[1:33:20] Speaker 2: So then that so now it just makes me wonder.
[1:33:24] Speaker 2: So in Lewis's C. S. Lewis thing lot liar, myth
[1:33:30] Speaker 2: or liar or lord, you would say lunatic.
[1:33:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a lunatic. He had a screw loose,
[1:33:38] Speaker 1: he needs help.
[1:33:40] Speaker 16: There's there's a fourth there's a fourth option that you're
[1:33:42] Speaker 16: not considering based legend.
[1:33:46] Speaker 5: Absolutely well, I don't.
[1:33:48] Speaker 3: I've heard that. I don't.
[1:33:50] Speaker 16: I don't think we can say with any high confidence
[1:33:52] Speaker 16: that the things said about Jesus and the Gospels are
[1:33:55] Speaker 16: necessarily telling us the truth about what Jesus said and did,
[1:33:58] Speaker 16: at least not in at least not in in large part.
[1:34:02] Speaker 3: And didn't the Jewish folks have a right they could
[1:34:07] Speaker 3: do to get God to forgive them for the for
[1:34:09] Speaker 3: them offending them sacrifices and things like that, So why
[1:34:13] Speaker 3: does Jesus want to do it?
[1:34:15] Speaker 1: Well, not only that, there's all sorts of forgiveness in
[1:34:18] Speaker 1: the Hebrew Bible without sacrifices, like you don't have to
[1:34:20] Speaker 1: kill anything just to seek forgiveness, though, like even the
[1:34:25] Speaker 1: New Testament nonsense like Hebrews nine twenty two, and it
[1:34:28] Speaker 1: says without the shedding of blood. There's no forgiveness of sins,
[1:34:31] Speaker 1: simply not true.
[1:34:32] Speaker 2: Yeah, because you can offer quarts of flour and stuff
[1:34:37] Speaker 2: like that for sin offerings if you're poor, too poor
[1:34:41] Speaker 2: to be able to afford like more animals.
[1:34:44] Speaker 1: Or just be repentant. When David repents in tewod Samuel
[1:34:47] Speaker 1: chapter twelve, when he's confronted by the prophet Nathan, God
[1:34:51] Speaker 1: forgive them on the spot.
[1:34:56] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I would say that, but that gets
[1:34:59] Speaker 2: to that, it's to the heart that then that goes
[1:35:01] Speaker 2: to like Exodus thirty four, six and seven, which is
[1:35:04] Speaker 2: what like the key focal point of like the entire
[1:35:08] Speaker 2: Old Testament of the Bible, because it's God describing his character,
[1:35:12] Speaker 2: and you clearly see God say I will not forgive
[1:35:15] Speaker 2: sin iniquity, but then also says I will not leave
[1:35:19] Speaker 2: the guilty unpunished, but then also says like I forgiving
[1:35:22] Speaker 2: of sin and iniquity and finish it.
[1:35:26] Speaker 1: Verse seven says what, uh, surely I will not leave
[1:35:31] Speaker 1: the guilty unpunished. I will visit the iniquity of the
[1:35:33] Speaker 1: father upon the children, then the children into the themy generation,
[1:35:37] Speaker 1: which trust me, that does line up with God's character.
[1:35:40] Speaker 1: He punishes innocent generations for the crimes of their father
[1:35:43] Speaker 1: all the time. I don't think that's a good look
[1:35:45] Speaker 1: for him. Do you think that it's right to punish
[1:35:50] Speaker 1: children for their parents' crimes?
[1:35:53] Speaker 2: Well, hold on, hold on, Jim, oh, Jim, you broke
[1:35:58] Speaker 2: up on us. Yeah, So I would say that the
[1:36:02] Speaker 2: way I the way I view that, and I think
[1:36:04] Speaker 2: a lot of Biblical people would view that isn't not
[1:36:07] Speaker 2: necessarily God saying, hey, I'm going to punish you for
[1:36:10] Speaker 2: your father's like example, like sin of alcoholism, but I
[1:36:14] Speaker 2: will allow that sin to be a struggle for you
[1:36:20] Speaker 2: to see if you're able to overcome it.
[1:36:22] Speaker 1: But the problem is he didn't say that, right, So
[1:36:25] Speaker 1: what he says is that he's going to visit the
[1:36:27] Speaker 1: iniquity upon the children. The iniquity is the sin or
[1:36:32] Speaker 1: the guilt. He's going to visit that upon the children.
[1:36:35] Speaker 1: Didn't say anything about addiction or like, you know, genetic traits.
[1:36:38] Speaker 1: They don't know any about genes here, And we see
[1:36:41] Speaker 1: God doing ye in the in the Hubre Bible, God
[1:36:44] Speaker 1: punishes children and great grandchildren and great great grandchildren all
[1:36:48] Speaker 1: the time for the crimes of their ancestors. So like, yeah,
[1:36:53] Speaker 1: but then you mentioned the right we do.
[1:36:56] Speaker 2: Yes, I've definitely heard of the Amalekites. I'm fullya where
[1:36:59] Speaker 2: the Allekites. I them attacking Israel as they came out
[1:37:03] Speaker 2: of Egypt, and the God basically saying like.
[1:37:08] Speaker 1: I will, I will, I will block them out.
[1:37:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, I will block them out. He held a grudge and.
[1:37:14] Speaker 1: Then he did. How many years later was it when
[1:37:16] Speaker 1: he blotted them out?
[1:37:18] Speaker 2: It wasn't until Esther it was.
[1:37:21] Speaker 1: Well, I mean the attempt was made in first Samuel
[1:37:23] Speaker 1: under the reign of King.
[1:37:24] Speaker 2: Saul, yes, against King egg Egg, and then Hayman lo
[1:37:30] Speaker 2: and behold is an egg eye, which is a direct
[1:37:33] Speaker 2: descendant of King Egggg. So it wasn't until Hayman was
[1:37:37] Speaker 2: killed that they were fully blotted out.
[1:37:40] Speaker 1: I don't think they're fully blotted out. But that's neither
[1:37:43] Speaker 1: here nor there. The problem is four hundred years later,
[1:37:48] Speaker 1: God says, okay, now I'm going to punish them people
[1:37:51] Speaker 1: who didn't do the crime.
[1:37:55] Speaker 2: Well, he says, the iniquity of the Amalekites is not
[1:37:57] Speaker 2: yet complete. So they clearly see Amaris have been or amorites.
[1:38:01] Speaker 3: So they that's a that's a different more and more.
[1:38:04] Speaker 1: That's a different passage. You're referring to Genesis fifteen when
[1:38:07] Speaker 1: God says He's sending the Israelites into Egypt and they'll
[1:38:10] Speaker 1: be slaves there for four hundred years because the iniquity
[1:38:13] Speaker 1: of the Amorites have not yet been completed.
[1:38:17] Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so, but but but.
[1:38:20] Speaker 1: That doesn't fix the problem. My point is the amalek
[1:38:22] Speaker 1: Kites are being punished for a crime that they didn't commit.
[1:38:27] Speaker 1: It says in verse two. I'll put it on the
[1:38:31] Speaker 1: screen so you know I'm not lying to you. That's
[1:38:34] Speaker 1: set the Lord of hosts you.
[1:38:36] Speaker 2: So hold on real quick. I don't think you're a
[1:38:38] Speaker 2: liar like you've been. You've been good faith. I've been
[1:38:42] Speaker 2: good faith, like I'm not like, I'm not coming at
[1:38:44] Speaker 2: you with like really hostile I hope you don't think
[1:38:46] Speaker 2: I'm coming at you energy.
[1:38:48] Speaker 1: And so I don't think that you think I'm a liar.
[1:38:51] Speaker 1: It's just that a lot of Christians do think that
[1:38:54] Speaker 1: I'm a liar. So I always put the verse on
[1:38:55] Speaker 1: the screen. Okay, okay, let's say the Lord of host
[1:39:00] Speaker 1: I will punish the Amalekites for what they did in
[1:39:02] Speaker 1: opposing the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt.
[1:39:05] Speaker 1: So the punishment that's being handed down in First Amuel
[1:39:08] Speaker 1: fifteen is for what happened four hundred years prior. But
[1:39:12] Speaker 1: none of these people living did that thing there. They're
[1:39:16] Speaker 1: just they just happen to be ancestors of the Amalekites.
[1:39:19] Speaker 1: And he's murdered. He's having all the even the babies murdered.
[1:39:23] Speaker 1: Why why why would he? Why would he do all
[1:39:25] Speaker 1: that if he hated the Amalekites so much, just prevent
[1:39:29] Speaker 1: them from giving birth, don't don't make the poor babies
[1:39:33] Speaker 1: get born and then have to slaughter all the babies
[1:39:36] Speaker 1: by the sword.
[1:39:39] Speaker 2: Yeah, I would just say that God's the author of life,
[1:39:43] Speaker 2: and because he's the author of life, he's able to
[1:39:45] Speaker 2: take life, and he's able to determine how he wants
[1:39:48] Speaker 2: to take take life.
[1:39:49] Speaker 1: Oh, you don't want to, you know, to do a
[1:39:51] Speaker 1: divine command theory, do you?
[1:39:53] Speaker 3: Okay?
[1:39:54] Speaker 2: I mean that's so.
[1:39:55] Speaker 1: Then if God, I know, you have to because you
[1:40:00] Speaker 1: believe that this is true, so you have to do
[1:40:02] Speaker 1: divine command theory. It's just it is what it is.
[1:40:04] Speaker 1: So then if God tells Alex that you have to
[1:40:08] Speaker 1: murder a baby because I'm I'm judging them for what
[1:40:11] Speaker 1: their parents did, it would be good to murder the baby.
[1:40:16] Speaker 2: Well, see, that's where I would say that. If I'm
[1:40:18] Speaker 2: claiming that God's talking to me like some some Christians
[1:40:23] Speaker 2: I know kind of kind of cooky or very charismatic,
[1:40:30] Speaker 2: I wouldn't. I would be like, no, the cannon's closed.
[1:40:34] Speaker 1: So well, I didn't ask you if you would. I
[1:40:36] Speaker 1: didn't ask you if you would do it. I'm asking you.
[1:40:40] Speaker 1: Would it be right to obey God? If God killed
[1:40:43] Speaker 1: up right now and said, Alex, I have my reasons,
[1:40:46] Speaker 1: I'm judging these people, and I need you to kill
[1:40:52] Speaker 1: this baby, it would be right to kill the baby,
[1:40:55] Speaker 1: I would say, no, oh, so God would God would
[1:40:59] Speaker 1: be wrong with them?
[1:41:01] Speaker 2: Well, we're going based off right now.
[1:41:03] Speaker 1: I would say, is it not within God's character to
[1:41:05] Speaker 1: command you to kill a baby?
[1:41:08] Speaker 9: I mean it is within his character?
[1:41:10] Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So then why would you say that it
[1:41:13] Speaker 1: would be right to disobey him? Is it ever right
[1:41:17] Speaker 1: to disobey God? Isn't that the definition of sin?
[1:41:21] Speaker 2: Well? Yes it is, but it's so that's not how
[1:41:25] Speaker 2: That's not how he communicates anymore. He has revealed himself
[1:41:28] Speaker 2: that's not in the Bible at all. In scripture.
[1:41:31] Speaker 1: The Bible does not say even for one second that
[1:41:34] Speaker 1: God won't give future commands. That quite the opposite.
[1:41:40] Speaker 2: Actually, I would say Hebrews one, one and two.
[1:41:44] Speaker 1: No, he just does not say that God will cease
[1:41:47] Speaker 1: to speak to human beings. He killed and I and
[1:41:54] Speaker 1: Sephirah after Jesus already passed away, after jess already passed
[1:41:57] Speaker 1: and was directed all that nonsense. He he literally had
[1:42:01] Speaker 1: Peter kill Annonis and Sephira, So like we know that
[1:42:05] Speaker 1: he's having people taken out even after the whole New
[1:42:09] Speaker 1: Covenant nonsense is done.
[1:42:12] Speaker 2: Okay, well, I will have to come back to you
[1:42:16] Speaker 2: because I have to do some stuff with my my wife,
[1:42:19] Speaker 2: and we have some friends coming into town tonight, so
[1:42:25] Speaker 2: so doing some stuff there with getting the house ready.
[1:42:28] Speaker 2: It's been good talking with you. It's really been valuable. Yeah,
[1:42:33] Speaker 2: no problem, I will be back. I followed you, so
[1:42:36] Speaker 2: I will talk to you later. Okay, I cheers Frian,
[1:42:40] Speaker 2: Yeah later.
[1:42:44] Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a conversation he wanted, but
[1:42:47] Speaker 1: that's a conversation he got. At least he was nice
[1:42:49] Speaker 1: about it. Okay, friends, I'm gonna read a couple of
[1:42:53] Speaker 1: super tests. We'll get our next guest in here shortly,
[1:42:56] Speaker 1: thank you for being here. It's Friday night. We're gonna
[1:42:58] Speaker 1: have lots of fun tonight. We got Dalton and Jim
[1:43:01] Speaker 1: in the house. Speakon of house, House seventy says, I
[1:43:04] Speaker 1: grew up in middle of Orthodox Christian country. It's ninety
[1:43:07] Speaker 1: nine percent fire, brimstone and keeping people down very depressed.
[1:43:11] Speaker 1: That is the case. I'll never understand why it's especially
[1:43:15] Speaker 1: in America. We love the UH, we love the health,
[1:43:20] Speaker 1: fire and brimstone preaching. I think it's because for a
[1:43:23] Speaker 1: lot of people it's effective. If you can scare people
[1:43:26] Speaker 1: into not defecting, a lot of them won't defect. Help bar.
[1:43:32] Speaker 5: Well, I say.
[1:43:32] Speaker 16: My pastor growing up was one of those pastors that
[1:43:35] Speaker 16: would like hoop and holler and jump up and down
[1:43:38] Speaker 16: and run down the aisles.
[1:43:39] Speaker 13: He was a very entertaining to listen to.
[1:43:42] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, at least they're fun. Kepler says, listening to
[1:43:46] Speaker 1: your debates at work has been great. Hope you you'll
[1:43:50] Speaker 1: have a nice and relaxed holiday season and a productive
[1:43:53] Speaker 1: new year. Well, thank you, Kevlar. I really appreciate that, friend,
[1:43:56] Speaker 1: and yes, I'm looking forward to it as well. I'll
[1:43:58] Speaker 1: be taking some time off for Thanksgiving, for you know,
[1:44:02] Speaker 1: the four days weekend or whatever. It should be a
[1:44:05] Speaker 1: good time. Socks, thank you for the six sixty six.
[1:44:09] Speaker 1: Hell Nero says so confused in Dude Army twenty two?
[1:44:11] Speaker 1: How can the man ever make false charges? All he
[1:44:14] Speaker 1: has to do is look down? Only the woman is
[1:44:17] Speaker 1: on the hook. No, what am I missing? Well, I
[1:44:19] Speaker 1: mean kind of The bloody sheet was tricky because not
[1:44:24] Speaker 1: everybody practiced it the same. But typically what would happen
[1:44:28] Speaker 1: is there would be a wedding tent and then there
[1:44:31] Speaker 1: would be attendants who set the bed for the couple.
[1:44:35] Speaker 1: They would wash the couple go in, they would wash
[1:44:38] Speaker 1: the couple go out, and then they would collect the sheet,
[1:44:40] Speaker 1: and then the sheet would go to whoever deemed necessary
[1:44:44] Speaker 1: as the keeper of the sheet. Sometimes the parents, sometimes
[1:44:47] Speaker 1: the bridegroom, or not TheRoom I mean, the groomsman. Just
[1:44:51] Speaker 1: kind of depend on your local tradition. That being said,
[1:44:55] Speaker 1: the man, if he doesn't have the sheet and she
[1:44:58] Speaker 1: doesn't have the sheet, let's say somebody else is holding
[1:45:00] Speaker 1: on to it. Sometime later. The reality is the man
[1:45:03] Speaker 1: could say anything he wants to and hope that the
[1:45:06] Speaker 1: sheet doesn't turn up right, It's just one of those things.
[1:45:11] Speaker 1: You know. Theoretically what would have happened is it would
[1:45:15] Speaker 1: have been pretty much immediate. He would have accused her
[1:45:18] Speaker 1: immediately the day of. And you know, I understand that,
[1:45:22] Speaker 1: like the mechanics of everything can be weird. But the
[1:45:26] Speaker 1: problem the thing is, we know that people were doing it.
[1:45:29] Speaker 1: In fact our cultures today this still have this practice.
[1:45:32] Speaker 1: It was very common in fact, people in ancient times. Writer,
[1:45:35] Speaker 1: I thank you for the money. Gun. People in ancient
[1:45:37] Speaker 1: times would literally bring like a little bit of like
[1:45:41] Speaker 1: a blood with them to the marled of chamber to
[1:45:44] Speaker 1: make sure that there would be blood on that sheet.
[1:45:47] Speaker 1: It happened a lot even in the medieval period, Medieval Europe,
[1:45:51] Speaker 1: there were people practicing this tradition and they would bring
[1:45:54] Speaker 1: blood with them to make sure that the sheet had
[1:45:57] Speaker 1: blood on it. So it's a tough one. And Weezer says,
[1:46:01] Speaker 1: justin I'm working on a surprise. Oh really for you
[1:46:04] Speaker 1: and your members? What's the best way to contact you? Email,
[1:46:06] Speaker 1: discord or social? I think email is the best. If
[1:46:09] Speaker 1: you go to my YouTube profile, you'll find my email.
[1:46:12] Speaker 1: That's all official business should be going there, says Please
[1:46:15] Speaker 1: say Weezer in your reply so I can find it
[1:46:18] Speaker 1: using control F in my reply in my email or
[1:46:25] Speaker 1: like right now, like can you do a word search
[1:46:29] Speaker 1: on audio? I didn't know that was the thing anyways, Weezer, Weezer, Weezer.
[1:46:33] Speaker 1: Hopefully it turns up. Randy, welcome in, my friend. Great
[1:46:38] Speaker 1: to see you. Thank you so so much for twenty
[1:46:42] Speaker 1: Deconstruction Zone memberships. That's huge. Not just twenty another twenty,
[1:46:46] Speaker 1: that's forty Deconstruction Zone memberships. Thank you so so much, Randy,
[1:46:50] Speaker 1: that is huge. I really appreciate that, friend, just because
[1:46:52] Speaker 1: w's for our friend Randy in here and small Johnson.
[1:46:55] Speaker 1: Great to see you, says, can we get a counter
[1:46:57] Speaker 1: for how many times you have to explain how commas work?
[1:47:00] Speaker 1: I know, but it's amazing to me that there are
[1:47:05] Speaker 1: people out there that they think having a conversation is
[1:47:09] Speaker 1: somebody responding to you, and then you just not responding
[1:47:13] Speaker 1: to them and obfuscating the point. I don't know why
[1:47:16] Speaker 1: people think that's a conversation. And side thank you for
[1:47:19] Speaker 1: the twenty hours supertests. I just wanted to say hi
[1:47:21] Speaker 1: and good night. Love to all. Well, thank you, SID
[1:47:24] Speaker 1: appreciate that. Love to you. I hope you're doing well.
[1:47:26] Speaker 1: I hope you're having a great night and snickerdoodles with us.
[1:47:29] Speaker 1: Good to see a sneak or doodle. Thank you for
[1:47:31] Speaker 1: the supertestes. I feel for the guest who is in deconstruction.
[1:47:34] Speaker 1: I miss worship and all the feels. I resent being
[1:47:37] Speaker 1: raised to need or enjoy what I got from old
[1:47:40] Speaker 1: hymns and worship songs. I miss feeling love for or
[1:47:45] Speaker 1: from a God who doesn't exist after all. I get
[1:47:49] Speaker 1: that that there is like the whole church. God experience
[1:47:52] Speaker 1: evokes emotions and things like that, and we like those,
[1:47:57] Speaker 1: and then when we can't have them anymore, it can
[1:47:59] Speaker 1: be disappointed. I get that in the loss of community.
[1:48:02] Speaker 1: But we're building our own community here, friends and Reverend Nate.
[1:48:06] Speaker 1: Good to see who says Jimmy and Forrest are live
[1:48:08] Speaker 1: right now. I didn't know that, so I'll be flipping
[1:48:11] Speaker 1: back and forth. And holy shit, Jim Burrows is here too. Yay.
[1:48:14] Speaker 1: I am overwhelmed with fantastic content in creators. We've got
[1:48:18] Speaker 1: so many good creators in the community right now. I'm
[1:48:21] Speaker 1: astounded by the growth of the community. I'm gonna do
[1:48:24] Speaker 1: one worshiper chat from Grumpy green Eye. I think it
[1:48:27] Speaker 1: for the sixteen New Zealand dollars says, rather than j
[1:48:31] Speaker 1: hwh sending his son to be six, I think it
[1:48:37] Speaker 1: hung on the cross the sky Daddy sent his blessings
[1:48:40] Speaker 1: to Justin and Dalton. So they are hung like a donkey,
[1:48:44] Speaker 1: a double donkey, A double donkey.
[1:48:47] Speaker 16: That reallyminds me Justin for future references. So Rashie and
[1:48:53] Speaker 16: his commentary on Zachariah says that the donkey is symbolic
[1:48:58] Speaker 16: for humility. So if they're going to be throwing around
[1:49:00] Speaker 16: like spiritual fulfillment of prophecies, all you got to do
[1:49:04] Speaker 16: is say that you like were humble and walked into
[1:49:08] Speaker 16: Jerusalem and you fulfill the prophecy.
[1:49:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, basically. And it is interesting too because, like I
[1:49:16] Speaker 1: don't know if double donkey has any meaning. It certainly
[1:49:22] Speaker 1: could be that the double donkey was Satan, because you know,
[1:49:26] Speaker 1: snakes have two two p penies pens. What's the plural
[1:49:31] Speaker 1: penis penises? I'm gonna go with P and I I
[1:49:35] Speaker 1: PENI sounds like the Latin version. Right, Well, let's grab
[1:49:41] Speaker 1: our next guest in here. It looks like it's gonna
[1:49:43] Speaker 1: be either j D or Dan I don't know who
[1:49:48] Speaker 1: I was gonna grab. I might not have announced I
[1:49:50] Speaker 1: was gonna grab I want to grab JD because I
[1:49:52] Speaker 1: think they've been in here longest. And then after that
[1:49:55] Speaker 1: was Dan loocome in JD. Are you he's eighteen? And
[1:50:01] Speaker 1: do you believe in God?
[1:50:06] Speaker 3: Yes? Can you hear me? Yeah?
[1:50:08] Speaker 1: I can hear you? Yeah, JD? Which God do you
[1:50:11] Speaker 1: believe in?
[1:50:16] Speaker 3: Hello? Yeah?
[1:50:23] Speaker 16: Justin the reason why I joined this is because is
[1:50:26] Speaker 16: there a way to contact your email or something?
[1:50:29] Speaker 3: And how how fast do you respond to it?
[1:50:33] Speaker 1: It's on my YouTube. You'll find my email on my
[1:50:37] Speaker 1: YouTube profile and I usually sprawled within a week. Yeah, okay.
[1:50:43] Speaker 12: The reason why I joined because I just had like
[1:50:45] Speaker 12: a small request that I'll just explain it on the
[1:50:47] Speaker 12: YouTube is if you.
[1:50:48] Speaker 3: Want it there, I mean having the email?
[1:50:50] Speaker 1: Ye get email sign.
[1:50:54] Speaker 5: All right?
[1:50:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, that was it.
[1:50:56] Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, here's bud cheers.
[1:51:01] Speaker 1: I don't think he's not having a good time. I
[1:51:02] Speaker 1: hope he's okay, all right, we'll grab Dan next after that.
[1:51:09] Speaker 1: I don't think he might be deconstructing as well. We've
[1:51:10] Speaker 1: had aqu what a few people come in deconstructing? Dan?
[1:51:14] Speaker 1: Welcome in? Are you at least eighteen and do you
[1:51:16] Speaker 1: believe in God?
[1:51:17] Speaker 15: Hey, deconstruction, I am above eighteen and I actually no,
[1:51:22] Speaker 15: I'm an atheist.
[1:51:23] Speaker 3: I did have a question.
[1:51:24] Speaker 15: I don't know if you're only taking Christians. I have
[1:51:26] Speaker 15: a question related to the Bible, and I wanted to
[1:51:29] Speaker 15: know your take.
[1:51:30] Speaker 1: We are we are doing debates. I mean, I can
[1:51:32] Speaker 1: take one question since you're already up. But we're just
[1:51:35] Speaker 1: doing debates friends.
[1:51:37] Speaker 3: Okay, sure.
[1:51:37] Speaker 15: So I was having a discussion with a Christian, specifically
[1:51:40] Speaker 15: about Exodus twenty one twenty through twenty one, the one
[1:51:43] Speaker 15: where it says if you beat him with a rod,
[1:51:46] Speaker 15: you know, and if he after if he dies within
[1:51:48] Speaker 15: a day or two, then he is to be punished.
[1:51:50] Speaker 15: I was having this discussion with a Christian, and the
[1:51:52] Speaker 15: Christian basically, obviously just my point was to show, hey,
[1:51:55] Speaker 15: the Bible is okay with slavery. Not only is it
[1:51:58] Speaker 15: okay with slavery, it's okay to beat them. And the
[1:52:01] Speaker 15: Christian was arguing that, well, well that's not true at all.
[1:52:06] Speaker 15: You know, they had laws that would protect them, and
[1:52:09] Speaker 15: that's why. Essentially what they were trying to say is
[1:52:12] Speaker 15: the word within that verse in Hebrew the punishment is
[1:52:16] Speaker 15: equivalent to being put to death. He was saying, Oh,
[1:52:19] Speaker 15: you know, these slaves were protected if you were. If
[1:52:21] Speaker 15: they were to die, the owner slave owner would be
[1:52:24] Speaker 15: put to death, to which I argue that the verse
[1:52:27] Speaker 15: doesn't seem to say that. It says that they were
[1:52:29] Speaker 15: to be punished, which I interpret that as maybe a
[1:52:32] Speaker 15: penalty of some kind of financial penalty. And I'm curious
[1:52:35] Speaker 15: if you understand the background behind that verse.
[1:52:39] Speaker 1: Yeah, so in the common Hebrew could mean capital punishment,
[1:52:44] Speaker 1: it could be not capital punishment. Sometimes it's used for
[1:52:47] Speaker 1: capital punishment, sometimes it's not. I don't think that's relevant
[1:52:51] Speaker 1: to the conversation because there's two things why it's not relevant.
[1:52:55] Speaker 1: Number one is this is clearly for beating your Hebrew slave.
[1:52:58] Speaker 1: The whole chapter is about Hebrew slaves. There seems to
[1:53:01] Speaker 1: be no really rules given about foreign slaves. But that
[1:53:05] Speaker 1: being said, Verse twenty one makes it entirely irrelevant. Says
[1:53:09] Speaker 1: if the slave survives for a day or two, there's
[1:53:12] Speaker 1: no punishment, meaning if a man beats his slaves so
[1:53:15] Speaker 1: severely that the slave accidentally gets unlived later, there's no
[1:53:20] Speaker 1: punishment for it.
[1:53:22] Speaker 15: Right, agreed, How do we know that this is for
[1:53:26] Speaker 15: Hebrew slaves, So I didn't see that in the text.
[1:53:28] Speaker 1: The whole chapter only mentions Hebrew slaves. If you go
[1:53:31] Speaker 1: to the beginning of Exus twenty one, it starts out
[1:53:35] Speaker 1: telling you when you buy a male Hebrew slave, he
[1:53:38] Speaker 1: shall serve six years on and so forth, and then
[1:53:40] Speaker 1: all the slaves in the rest of this verse is
[1:53:43] Speaker 1: in the context of dealing with Hebrews, just like in
[1:53:48] Speaker 1: Leviticus twenty five. Everything in there is about Hebrews, and
[1:53:52] Speaker 1: then you get to one little paragraph where it's like, okay,
[1:53:56] Speaker 1: and here's what to do with the foreigners, right, So
[1:53:59] Speaker 1: like when they're when they start the conversation, starting and
[1:54:02] Speaker 1: ending the conversation talking about what to do with your
[1:54:05] Speaker 1: your Hebrew people. Then you know, within the context, we
[1:54:09] Speaker 1: would be right to assume that this is a conversation
[1:54:11] Speaker 1: about what to do with Hebrews, or else they would
[1:54:13] Speaker 1: explicitly tell you otherwise.
[1:54:16] Speaker 15: God, I'm not sure if it's within the Exodus, but
[1:54:18] Speaker 15: there's another verse that basically kind of goes into It
[1:54:21] Speaker 15: describes an eye for an eye, right, if you stab
[1:54:24] Speaker 15: a you know, if you gouge another a fellow Israelite's eye,
[1:54:28] Speaker 15: and it's eye for the punishment's eye for an eye.
[1:54:30] Speaker 15: But if you gouge a slave's eye, then his treatment
[1:54:34] Speaker 15: is to be set free, which I don't know is
[1:54:37] Speaker 15: that also within the Exodus, because that's why I thought
[1:54:39] Speaker 15: that it followed that maybe was referring to foreign slaves,
[1:54:42] Speaker 15: because I mean, the text makes it very clear that
[1:54:45] Speaker 15: the punishment for you know, against the crime against an
[1:54:48] Speaker 15: Israelite is not the same for a punishment against a
[1:54:50] Speaker 15: crime for.
[1:54:52] Speaker 3: You know, a slave. They weren't considered equal.
[1:54:54] Speaker 1: It's the same chapter, and it's it's for Hebrews because
[1:54:57] Speaker 1: Hebrew slaves could get their freedom in livity because twenty
[1:55:01] Speaker 1: five we learned that foreign slaves never get their freedom.
[1:55:05] Speaker 1: So in the Book of Exodus, men's male slaves gold
[1:55:11] Speaker 1: free in the seventh year. Women not so much. Women
[1:55:14] Speaker 1: become cockubines quite often. But if you knock out the
[1:55:18] Speaker 1: eye of a slave owner I'm sorry, of a slave,
[1:55:21] Speaker 1: then they can get their freedom. But I have no
[1:55:24] Speaker 1: reason to believe that this is going to apply to foreigners.
[1:55:28] Speaker 3: Right, agreed? Okay, Well, hey, I appreciate it.
[1:55:31] Speaker 5: That answers my question.
[1:55:33] Speaker 1: Hey, best luck men, heures.
[1:55:35] Speaker 3: Thanks.
[1:55:37] Speaker 1: A lot of people out there doing doing debates now
[1:55:40] Speaker 1: I'm glad to see it. Rock hard for Doug. Good
[1:55:43] Speaker 1: to see you, my friend. Thank you for the supertest
[1:55:45] Speaker 1: says We've got a jam session tonight with our local band,
[1:55:48] Speaker 1: the garage Bandits. That's a great name. I like that
[1:55:51] Speaker 1: and love the cookout pregame Rockott produg and some simply
[1:55:54] Speaker 1: what for Sharon, Well listen, we love that for you.
[1:55:56] Speaker 1: Hopefully you rock out for Doug. And last one from
[1:56:01] Speaker 1: doctor Doctor Fairy guitar, Thank you for the fifty dollars
[1:56:07] Speaker 1: super chat. I appreciate that. It's huge because at night
[1:56:10] Speaker 1: I see a monster in the corner of my room.
[1:56:11] Speaker 1: Then my mind clears and it's a chair with clothes.
[1:56:14] Speaker 1: It stops being a monster forever. I mean, that is
[1:56:18] Speaker 1: the case. Like when people are coming out of these religions,
[1:56:21] Speaker 1: they're afraid of so much the you know, the the boogeyman,
[1:56:24] Speaker 1: devil and demons and hell and whatnot. But once you
[1:56:28] Speaker 1: see clearly like what's actually happening, you're not afraid of
[1:56:32] Speaker 1: that shit anymore. Like I don't spend one second worrying
[1:56:34] Speaker 1: about help because I don't believe it exists. Thank you doctor.
[1:56:37] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. All right, let's get next guest in here,
[1:56:44] Speaker 1: wellcome in all you hear me? Dec you are? Are
[1:56:48] Speaker 1: you at least eighteen? And do you believe in goden?
[1:56:51] Speaker 14: Yes, yes to both?
[1:56:53] Speaker 11: Okay?
[1:56:53] Speaker 1: And which guy do you believe in?
[1:56:56] Speaker 14: I don't hold to any religious concept of God. Just
[1:56:58] Speaker 14: holds a classical thieves.
[1:57:00] Speaker 1: Gotcha? So you're not a Christian?
[1:57:03] Speaker 14: No, no, no, I'm not a Christian Muslim hinto it?
[1:57:06] Speaker 1: Okay, So then you would just say I denounce into Jesus.
[1:57:11] Speaker 1: Yeahweh and allah?
[1:57:14] Speaker 14: Yes, I denounced a law Jesus, etcetera.
[1:57:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, fair enough, So I'll get the philbro time around
[1:57:23] Speaker 1: the board. You get ten minutes to give us your
[1:57:25] Speaker 1: bad syllogism, and when you're done with ten minutes, you
[1:57:29] Speaker 1: have to move on to another one.
[1:57:32] Speaker 14: Yeah, so let me get like a syllogism real quick.
[1:57:36] Speaker 14: Let's just get the mortal ontological argument.
[1:57:38] Speaker 1: If you know what that is, probably not yeah, yeah,
[1:57:41] Speaker 1: I'm probably not.
[1:57:45] Speaker 14: Yeah. So promise one is just going to be. If
[1:57:47] Speaker 14: it's possible that a maximum grade being exists, it follows
[1:57:50] Speaker 14: that it exists in a possible world. If it follows
[1:57:53] Speaker 14: that exists in a possible world, it must exist in
[1:57:56] Speaker 14: all worlds. Because it's getting defined. It's necessary. Something necessary.
[1:57:59] Speaker 14: I'm not to exist it, so it has to exist
[1:58:01] Speaker 14: in all possible worlds as we perceive them.
[1:58:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, you think I had time to write all that down.
[1:58:08] Speaker 3: I know what he's talking about. He was talking about
[1:58:11] Speaker 3: Anselm's ontological argument. No it's not.
[1:58:13] Speaker 14: It's punting, but okay whatever.
[1:58:16] Speaker 3: The counter argument is the same. I can imagine a
[1:58:19] Speaker 3: greater God than the one in the Bible. Just because
[1:58:23] Speaker 3: I can imagine it, it doesn't exist. I can imagine
[1:58:26] Speaker 3: the best possible island, and that also doesn't exist. I mean,
[1:58:31] Speaker 3: just because you imagine it doesn't mean it exists. Yeah.
[1:58:34] Speaker 14: Again, we're not saying that. We're saying, if it's possible
[1:58:38] Speaker 14: that X exists, X must not contain any logical or
[1:58:41] Speaker 14: metaphysical errors. Then X must have or be defined within
[1:58:44] Speaker 14: this ontology. So X must have the most definitive position
[1:58:48] Speaker 14: of being necessary. No, what you just sorry?
[1:58:51] Speaker 1: Almost like he didn't actually respond to Jim. Because you
[1:58:55] Speaker 1: can imagine something doesn't have anything to do with whether
[1:58:59] Speaker 1: or not it's it's possible, right.
[1:59:02] Speaker 3: Well, and when you start using, when you start saying
[1:59:06] Speaker 3: things like X and going through all of that, just
[1:59:09] Speaker 3: plug my name in there for X instead, and then
[1:59:12] Speaker 3: you've just proven I'm God.
[1:59:14] Speaker 14: Okay, so what you just mentioned is yes, those can
[1:59:18] Speaker 14: be real in a different possible world. I could grant that,
[1:59:22] Speaker 14: but I'm saying it's all worlds. Wait, well, hi, the
[1:59:27] Speaker 14: way cute somehow?
[1:59:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, according to your syllogism, if it's possible in one world,
[1:59:33] Speaker 1: is possible in all worlds.
[1:59:35] Speaker 14: No, that just means you're ignorant because we're saying it
[1:59:37] Speaker 14: must be.
[1:59:40] Speaker 1: That line.
[1:59:42] Speaker 3: Sorry, sorry, it's possible. I'm God.
[1:59:46] Speaker 14: That I mean a logical since you're not defined as
[1:59:48] Speaker 14: necessary nor wait if you know that, how do you
[1:59:53] Speaker 14: know you define as necessary?
[1:59:55] Speaker 1: I believe in the transcendental argument for Jim Barrows, he
[1:59:58] Speaker 1: is the necessary entity that brings all things into existence.
[2:00:04] Speaker 14: Yeah, I'm saying, yes, that would only be applicable if
[2:00:06] Speaker 14: you're ontology is to find that's necessary.
[2:00:08] Speaker 3: Which is not yontology is defined is not necessary.
[2:00:11] Speaker 14: Because how do you know that?
[2:00:12] Speaker 2: You tell me?
[2:00:13] Speaker 3: Yeah, because I define it that way. All you're doing
[2:00:16] Speaker 3: is defining God that way. I'm defining myself that way.
[2:00:19] Speaker 3: I'm doing the same thing you are. I'm just making
[2:00:21] Speaker 3: it look ridiculous.
[2:00:23] Speaker 14: No, we're seeing the best in coherent logical responses.
[2:00:27] Speaker 3: Hear logical blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
[2:00:31] Speaker 14: Yes, so is your fat ass just gonna like he
[2:00:33] Speaker 14: you know, I guess.
[2:00:35] Speaker 3: There because it's a dumb argument, dumb, a little baby
[2:00:41] Speaker 3: crash because you can't prove it's not me.
[2:00:45] Speaker 14: Well, yes, so I'll just actually one more time, which
[2:00:48] Speaker 14: metaphysical property that you share that's going to be within
[2:00:51] Speaker 14: the necessary category?
[2:00:52] Speaker 3: All of them?
[2:00:53] Speaker 14: Okay, so are you all knowing?
[2:00:55] Speaker 3: Yes?
[2:00:56] Speaker 14: If you're all knowing, then you would have said that
[2:00:58] Speaker 14: prior to when I said are you all knowing?
[2:01:00] Speaker 3: That means you're not on the No, I work in
[2:01:02] Speaker 3: mysterious ways.
[2:01:04] Speaker 14: Yeah. Again, you're not attacking the argument. I don't wan't see, like,
[2:01:06] Speaker 14: where's the relevance to you?
[2:01:07] Speaker 3: No, I'm making fun of the argument. I'm not attacking it.
[2:01:10] Speaker 3: I'm reducing it.
[2:01:10] Speaker 14: To confuses something being probable into existence. I'm saying, if
[2:01:16] Speaker 14: the predicate givens show.
[2:01:19] Speaker 3: So here's the problem with using the word yeah, yeah,
[2:01:23] Speaker 3: that's me. You can't get away from the fact that
[2:01:25] Speaker 3: I can define that as me no matter how you
[2:01:28] Speaker 3: look at it. And I'm saying that you keep saying
[2:01:32] Speaker 3: in all possible worlds, just possible, in all possible worlds,
[2:01:36] Speaker 3: that pigs will come flying out of my lily white
[2:01:38] Speaker 3: backside today, I believe that.
[2:01:40] Speaker 14: Do I carry Jim Jim Jim? Are you made of matter?
[2:01:43] Speaker 3: Yes?
[2:01:44] Speaker 14: Or no?
[2:01:45] Speaker 3: I'm God, I'm made of everything.
[2:01:48] Speaker 1: Obviously.
[2:01:50] Speaker 14: Yeah, obviously he's a proof of ignorant.
[2:01:53] Speaker 1: Not only matter, not only matter.
[2:01:57] Speaker 14: If it made it matter, then by definition your contingent.
[2:02:00] Speaker 14: Something cannot be contingent.
[2:02:01] Speaker 1: But you didn't hear me not only matter.
[2:02:05] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[2:02:05] Speaker 14: Again, I'm saying that's a contradiction. Something cannot be immitarial
[2:02:08] Speaker 14: being material at the same time, I'm doing that right now.
[2:02:11] Speaker 14: So like you affirm contradictions, no, nor.
[2:02:15] Speaker 3: Because because I'm God all powerful and I imagine myself
[2:02:18] Speaker 3: being able to do it.
[2:02:19] Speaker 14: Yeah, are you okay? Yeah, So when we say God
[2:02:21] Speaker 14: is all powerful, we're not saying he could do contradictions.
[2:02:23] Speaker 14: But of course you would have known that, because again
[2:02:25] Speaker 14: I'm taking the position of no.
[2:02:27] Speaker 3: I do know that that's the most common definition I
[2:02:29] Speaker 3: use for for omnpotentical to do it, because because the
[2:02:35] Speaker 3: greatest possible God I can imagine is me creating contradictions.
[2:02:39] Speaker 14: Wait, so perfect, So God can do logical contradictions.
[2:02:42] Speaker 3: I can, yes, because that's the most that's the greatest God.
[2:02:45] Speaker 3: I can imagine.
[2:02:47] Speaker 14: Yeah, And I'm not saying if you could imagine X
[2:02:49] Speaker 14: and X must exist. Can you like show me when I.
[2:02:51] Speaker 3: Said that somewhere in there you said something like that.
[2:02:55] Speaker 3: It's it's the basic prestoppositionalism is all you're doing. And
[2:03:02] Speaker 3: I'm presupposing I'm God, wait, any argument, I can use
[2:03:07] Speaker 3: any argument. You may substitute my name in it, and
[2:03:10] Speaker 3: it works when you're talking about a metaphysical or transcendental argument.
[2:03:14] Speaker 3: This is a problem with transcendental arguments.
[2:03:20] Speaker 14: Yes, are you done.
[2:03:23] Speaker 3: Talking? Yeah? I know.
[2:03:25] Speaker 1: The funny thing about conversations is that when somebody is
[2:03:28] Speaker 1: no longer talking, that's usually how you know that they're
[2:03:30] Speaker 1: actually done. I know conversations are hard for people like
[2:03:34] Speaker 1: you because you never had a real one, But that's
[2:03:36] Speaker 1: how they work.
[2:03:38] Speaker 14: Insulting and actually attack the argument.
[2:03:40] Speaker 1: Oh now, now he doesn't like insulting the guy who
[2:03:43] Speaker 1: came up here calling people dumb, stupid, and fat. Now,
[2:03:46] Speaker 1: all of a sudden, isn't okay with insulting? Are dead?
[2:03:51] Speaker 1: Did you get concussed? You get concussed on the way
[2:03:54] Speaker 1: in here. I think you're.
[2:03:58] Speaker 14: Wait, wait, wait, there's a different.
[2:04:00] Speaker 3: President argument you can make that I can't substitute myself
[2:04:04] Speaker 3: in and I am making your definition.
[2:04:07] Speaker 14: You cannot be necessary based on your quality of the
[2:04:09] Speaker 14: properties you share. It's not the criteria I am necessary. Okay, perfect, perfect?
[2:04:15] Speaker 14: If you're necessary? Are you saying you could have always existed?
[2:04:18] Speaker 3: Yes?
[2:04:19] Speaker 14: Perfect?
[2:04:20] Speaker 3: Possibly?
[2:04:22] Speaker 14: How is that possible?
[2:04:25] Speaker 1: What was possible?
[2:04:26] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[2:04:27] Speaker 14: Yeah, I'm saying if you could have always existed, how
[2:04:29] Speaker 14: would that be possible? When creation applies to porality? Can
[2:04:32] Speaker 14: you tell me.
[2:04:34] Speaker 3: Because I I I thought it up and made it so.
[2:04:37] Speaker 14: Yeah, he manifest. It doesn't mean the unicorn exists that
[2:04:42] Speaker 14: he manifested.
[2:04:44] Speaker 1: He manifested from the transcendental to the physical.
[2:04:50] Speaker 14: Yeah, but we're not saying that though. We're saying, vibrating
[2:04:52] Speaker 14: between the two has that ontology which we could prove.
[2:04:56] Speaker 14: So if it has that ontology, must be true in
[2:04:58] Speaker 14: all possible worlds.
[2:05:00] Speaker 1: Jim Jim, Jim is true in all possible worlds?
[2:05:06] Speaker 14: Yeah, how would that be coherent when Jim is contingentus?
[2:05:08] Speaker 14: Since he's composed of.
[2:05:09] Speaker 1: Matter, he's not content some.
[2:05:15] Speaker 14: Perfect Yeah, I'm when something is going to be immaterial.
[2:05:18] Speaker 14: It cannot.
[2:05:19] Speaker 1: So I've tried to tell you earlier and you weren't
[2:05:22] Speaker 1: paying attention. Jim is not just made of material. He's
[2:05:25] Speaker 1: also made of all of the transcendental stuff. Whether you
[2:05:29] Speaker 1: think transcendental things exist isn't even a question. You're making
[2:05:34] Speaker 1: essentially a tag argument for God. Right, So all we're
[2:05:37] Speaker 1: saying is, whatever the transcendental stuff you think exists, Jim's
[2:05:41] Speaker 1: also made of Some of it's not material. You can
[2:05:44] Speaker 1: believe in Platonism, and there's a whole range of transcendental
[2:05:47] Speaker 1: ship that exists that's not material. What we're saying is Jim,
[2:05:51] Speaker 1: while he does have a material presence, is also made
[2:05:53] Speaker 1: of an eternal transcendental nature.
[2:05:56] Speaker 3: I'm just using. I'm just using my meat to.
[2:06:03] Speaker 14: Yeah, you're saying you're gonna be confided.
[2:06:04] Speaker 3: I'm animating my meat suit. That's all I'm doing.
[2:06:07] Speaker 14: Okay, I'm saying matters on a transcendental property. So you
[2:06:10] Speaker 14: can't add in on to that.
[2:06:12] Speaker 3: No, I'm talking to you through my meat suit. Otherwise
[2:06:14] Speaker 3: I couldn't talk to you at all. So I have
[2:06:15] Speaker 3: to have a meat suit. So I'm just animating a
[2:06:18] Speaker 3: bunch of flesh I created it out of dust. It
[2:06:20] Speaker 3: was kind of fun.
[2:06:23] Speaker 14: Guys, not even answering the question.
[2:06:26] Speaker 1: It's embarrassing. So did God not exist before he created
[2:06:30] Speaker 1: all the matter?
[2:06:33] Speaker 17: Oh?
[2:06:34] Speaker 14: No, God is immaterial, so that would be impossible.
[2:06:36] Speaker 1: No, no, did God not exist until he created matter?
[2:06:40] Speaker 14: God always existed? What do you mean?
[2:06:42] Speaker 5: That's uh?
[2:06:42] Speaker 3: Okay?
[2:06:43] Speaker 1: So then Jim, Jim always existed even before he created
[2:06:46] Speaker 1: matter and manifested himself in that matter.
[2:06:50] Speaker 14: Well, how would that follow though? When he just has that?
[2:06:52] Speaker 1: How would that follow its? I just told you he
[2:06:55] Speaker 1: always existed, he was immaterial, and then he created all matter,
[2:06:59] Speaker 1: and then he manifested himself inside of matter. Not even hard.
[2:07:03] Speaker 14: You believe that you could just home, so you believe
[2:07:05] Speaker 14: that you could.
[2:07:06] Speaker 1: Praise Jim praised Jim. The essential property. I just told
[2:07:11] Speaker 1: you the essential property. It's defined by Jim. The essential
[2:07:19] Speaker 1: property is what Jim defined as being essential and not
[2:07:22] Speaker 1: only essential, it's necessary. Jim's necessary existence is why we're here,
[2:07:27] Speaker 1: and it's also why you're out of time. Now you
[2:07:30] Speaker 1: got fifteen seconds left on the clock. You have no argument.
[2:07:34] Speaker 1: This is bad. This argument doesn't work on grown adults.
[2:07:39] Speaker 1: It might have worked on your like your teenage cousin
[2:07:41] Speaker 1: who didn't know any better. But it doesn't work on
[2:07:43] Speaker 1: actual adults, so we're gonna We're gonna move on to
[2:07:46] Speaker 1: the next guest. But I do like the mute game.
[2:07:48] Speaker 1: I could do this for a while, you agent.
[2:07:57] Speaker 3: I think he's just evolved into nothing but insults.
[2:08:01] Speaker 1: Now, thanks for the Galaxy ride.
[2:08:04] Speaker 3: Well that is kind of cool.
[2:08:06] Speaker 7: Now.
[2:08:07] Speaker 1: I don't know why he thinks he's going to get
[2:08:09] Speaker 1: a word out here.
[2:08:11] Speaker 16: I'm just glad that I'm not the only guy coming
[2:08:15] Speaker 16: up here debating that gets called fat ass like that's
[2:08:18] Speaker 16: been my That's been my title for the longest time,
[2:08:21] Speaker 16: so I'm glad to share it with somebody.
[2:08:23] Speaker 3: I'm almost foreigner pounds. Last time I weighed myself off
[2:08:26] Speaker 3: eighty pounds. I am definitely fat, So thank you for
[2:08:29] Speaker 3: describing me accurately.
[2:08:31] Speaker 1: Did he just did he use the f slur just
[2:08:33] Speaker 1: a minute ago? Did I hear that right?
[2:08:36] Speaker 16: No, he just repeated the word fat ass.
[2:08:38] Speaker 1: Oh okay. It's hard to tell because he's just up
[2:08:41] Speaker 1: here crashing out, and I'm muting him so fast. It's
[2:08:43] Speaker 1: hard to tell which insult is coming out of his mouth.
[2:08:47] Speaker 1: I wonder how long he can keep this up.
[2:08:49] Speaker 3: Forwards.
[2:08:50] Speaker 1: He's kind of interesting, kind of interesting.
[2:08:52] Speaker 14: Lease.
[2:08:55] Speaker 3: I love how you're still talking and thinking we can
[2:08:57] Speaker 3: hear him. Does he thank?
[2:08:59] Speaker 1: It looks like he still thinks he's in control here,
[2:09:02] Speaker 1: like you were never in control for not even thirty seconds.
[2:09:05] Speaker 1: My man, you're deeply confused about where you're at and
[2:09:08] Speaker 1: what's happening.
[2:09:11] Speaker 3: Yeah, this is This is I think the fundamental problem
[2:09:14] Speaker 3: of the transcendental argument or any metaphysics argument, because when
[2:09:18] Speaker 3: you start talking about all possible worlds and all the
[2:09:20] Speaker 3: rest of that, you're not talking about this universe, which
[2:09:23] Speaker 3: is the only one that we care about. And while
[2:09:26] Speaker 3: metaphysics has uses, this is not one of them. You
[2:09:32] Speaker 3: just do exactly what I did. And you know we
[2:09:35] Speaker 3: substitute rock, you know we can substitute tugging a Price.
[2:09:41] Speaker 1: Oh, there he goes. He's so mature, it is, he's
[2:09:45] Speaker 1: so mature. All right, Well we're gonna cut you. Okay,
[2:09:49] Speaker 1: you're not adult enough to be here. All right. When
[2:09:51] Speaker 1: your testes drop, let us know, maybe we'll bring it back. Okay, Well,
[2:09:57] Speaker 1: there you go. I'll make sure before I forget. Let
[2:10:00] Speaker 1: me add him to the clip list. His name was
[2:10:04] Speaker 1: all the on TikTok and I think I'll list him
[2:10:09] Speaker 1: as philbro crash out crushed two pebbles by Jim fantastic.
[2:10:19] Speaker 1: Now he's he's he'll be clipped eventually. Friends, he really
[2:10:25] Speaker 1: showed us, Jim, are you do you believe in his God?
[2:10:28] Speaker 3: Now? Uh? Well I believe it myself, so yes.
[2:10:34] Speaker 1: You know what the funny thing is, I know, beyond
[2:10:37] Speaker 1: a shadow of a doubt that that asshat does believe
[2:10:41] Speaker 1: in some formalized God. There's not a single human being
[2:10:44] Speaker 1: alive who runs these bullshit transcend into arguments for God
[2:10:48] Speaker 1: that aren't part of some religion. They didn't learn these
[2:10:51] Speaker 1: dumb arguments until they already started to realize that their
[2:10:54] Speaker 1: religion didn't make any sense and it needed some sort
[2:10:57] Speaker 1: of way to justify believing in God. And then and
[2:11:00] Speaker 1: they started to learn philosophy. Nobody comes to the nameless,
[2:11:05] Speaker 1: formless God through philosophy. That's not how that works at all.
[2:11:09] Speaker 1: Blon of Guard a couple of super chests. We'll get
[2:11:11] Speaker 1: our next guest in here relax with Russell a SMR.
[2:11:14] Speaker 1: Good to see you. Thank you for the super chest,
[2:11:15] Speaker 1: says Alex. Just let something slip. He said, kind of
[2:11:19] Speaker 1: kooky about Christians who say they hear God speaking to them,
[2:11:22] Speaker 1: But if God is true and real, why are they kookie?
[2:11:25] Speaker 1: It's like, intuitively he knows. Oops, you're right. That is
[2:11:30] Speaker 1: kind of a slip, isn't, Because like, if God is real,
[2:11:33] Speaker 1: there should be nothing strange or kookie about God speaking
[2:11:37] Speaker 1: to anybody. He does it all the time. It's like
[2:11:39] Speaker 1: one of his most repeated functions in the Bible. And
[2:11:44] Speaker 1: Gumby Green says the sky Donkey is the most humble
[2:11:47] Speaker 1: of the gods and reports that Jesus didn't ride him,
[2:11:51] Speaker 1: though he was always happy to take his kids for
[2:11:54] Speaker 1: a ride. That may be the case. I don't know
[2:11:56] Speaker 1: much about the sky the sky Donkey, but I believe
[2:11:59] Speaker 1: the Donkey's probably more real than the skycarcass if I'm wagering.
[2:12:04] Speaker 1: And Alien Madge I says I've never donated to a
[2:12:07] Speaker 1: content creator before, but you deserve it. Well, thank you,
[2:12:10] Speaker 1: Alien MAGEI, thanks for everything you do. I hope you
[2:12:13] Speaker 1: don't mispronounce my name, Hi, Discord chat Well, I mean
[2:12:17] Speaker 1: it looks like Alien Magi, right. I mean, I could
[2:12:19] Speaker 1: be wrong. I've been known to mispronounced names before, but
[2:12:22] Speaker 1: I think I've got that one. Paul, thank you for
[2:12:25] Speaker 1: the supertests, I don't understand what Christians say. Jesus gave
[2:12:27] Speaker 1: up everything, which does he lose permanently, not a damn thing.
[2:12:31] Speaker 1: Donating all my money to charity knowing I get back,
[2:12:34] Speaker 1: get it back in three days equals not a sacrifice. Indeed,
[2:12:36] Speaker 1: he didn't sacrifice shit. And he didn't even take the punishment.
[2:12:40] Speaker 1: If the punishment is that we are eternally separated from
[2:12:42] Speaker 1: God and in hell fire, and Jesus is not eternally
[2:12:45] Speaker 1: separated from God and in hell fire, he did not
[2:12:48] Speaker 1: take our punishment. He had a bad hangover.
[2:12:50] Speaker 3: That was it.
[2:12:51] Speaker 1: And Design says mockery is to God. Add water is
[2:12:55] Speaker 1: to a witch as mockery is to God, as water
[2:12:58] Speaker 1: is to a witch.
[2:12:59] Speaker 3: What a word.
[2:13:00] Speaker 1: It is the one thing God says. You know that
[2:13:03] Speaker 1: he will not be mocked. But like, what a crazy
[2:13:05] Speaker 1: thing to say. God like has been mocked literally eternally
[2:13:10] Speaker 1: throughout all of history. We're doing it right now x
[2:13:15] Speaker 1: jazz ex jazmocause. The funny thing about Christian Philbros Is
[2:13:19] Speaker 1: you can be maximally certain their virtue is intact. He'll say,
[2:13:24] Speaker 1: I would say not intact, is my guys, that philbro
[2:13:28] Speaker 1: that came up here. His virtue was not intact. He
[2:13:31] Speaker 1: showed his it asked pretty early, and people not very
[2:13:34] Speaker 1: good to see it. Says, if a phil brow is
[2:13:35] Speaker 1: honest in a forest and no one is there to
[2:13:37] Speaker 1: hear it, was he ever honest at all? Well, if
[2:13:41] Speaker 1: I'm wagering, no, I very rarely meet an honest philbro,
[2:13:45] Speaker 1: which is why they don't get much time up here.
[2:13:48] Speaker 1: And Bunny Bismuth says philbro should be given penalties on
[2:13:52] Speaker 1: the time every time they insult a host or demand
[2:13:55] Speaker 1: an answer, or be given a list of words they
[2:13:56] Speaker 1: can't use. Aw so true, you're right every time they
[2:14:00] Speaker 1: insult one of them, and they always do. By the way,
[2:14:02] Speaker 1: this is something that is unique to philbros. When their
[2:14:06] Speaker 1: syllogism doesn't work the first time, they immediately go right
[2:14:10] Speaker 1: to insulting the hosts. It's their go to tactic. They
[2:14:14] Speaker 1: think that it's good rhetoric, like if you can't win
[2:14:17] Speaker 1: the argument, you can at least win the poop smearing contest.
[2:14:21] Speaker 1: They think that's good rhetoric. It's not. It might have
[2:14:24] Speaker 1: worked in your junior high philosophy class, but it doesn't
[2:14:26] Speaker 1: work in real life. And last one for now from
[2:14:29] Speaker 1: oh yolante, thank you so much for the toin hour
[2:14:32] Speaker 1: supertest is you should add God and Anatomy. I think
[2:14:36] Speaker 1: we have that on the list, don't we on our
[2:14:38] Speaker 1: resources list on the spreadsheet. Let me see. I mean
[2:14:43] Speaker 1: it's a good book for sure.
[2:14:46] Speaker 16: Okay, both the audiobook and the physical copy, although the
[2:14:49] Speaker 16: physical copy belongs to my friend Ashland and I need
[2:14:52] Speaker 16: to send it back to her in the mail. But
[2:14:53] Speaker 16: the audiobook is so good because Francesca'stabcapulu actually reads it
[2:14:58] Speaker 16: herself and she's got such a good reading a voice.
[2:15:01] Speaker 1: Oh no way, I didn't know that. I'll make sure
[2:15:06] Speaker 1: it's on the list. If it's not on the list, friends,
[2:15:08] Speaker 1: and we'll make sure it gets linked up. But yeah,
[2:15:11] Speaker 1: Francisca is uh. I mean, let's just be honest. Francisca
[2:15:15] Speaker 1: is awesome. But yeah, we definitely will add it up there,
[2:15:18] Speaker 1: and says also got a new software engineer job offer.
[2:15:21] Speaker 1: Just wanted to share and pay my tithe praise Doug.
[2:15:24] Speaker 14: What hell?
[2:15:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, congratulations on the new software engineering job offer, big
[2:15:29] Speaker 1: w and we have fun. Software engineering is a good time.
[2:15:32] Speaker 1: I probably spent more of my time doing software than
[2:15:34] Speaker 1: electrical stuff, even though my training is engineering. But let
[2:15:40] Speaker 1: me grab Joshua from the queue and then we'll keep
[2:15:43] Speaker 1: the conversations moving. I think Joshua was next in line. Joshua,
[2:15:49] Speaker 1: welcome in. Are you at least eighteen? And do you
[2:15:50] Speaker 1: believe in God?
[2:15:53] Speaker 17: Yes?
[2:15:54] Speaker 3: And yes? Okay?
[2:15:56] Speaker 1: And which guy do you believe in? I believe in
[2:15:59] Speaker 1: the Christian Go sure? Now, what do you think is
[2:16:02] Speaker 1: the greatest evidence or argument for the Christian God being real?
[2:16:08] Speaker 17: The existence of cancer?
[2:16:12] Speaker 1: Go ahead?
[2:16:15] Speaker 2: Clearly, there has to be some.
[2:16:20] Speaker 17: There has to be some higher force that is doing
[2:16:23] Speaker 17: these horrible things to us. I believe in the Christian God,
[2:16:26] Speaker 17: but I think that God created everything, right, so he
[2:16:30] Speaker 17: must have created Satan. So in that case, God is Satan.
[2:16:35] Speaker 17: That's why I believe in the Christian God, but I
[2:16:37] Speaker 17: do not worship him. Think about Bohemian Bohemian growth. They're
[2:16:42] Speaker 17: sacrificing babies on it.
[2:16:43] Speaker 1: Yeah so alter, Yeah, that's adorable. But what does any
[2:16:48] Speaker 1: cancer have to do with proving God is real? Like
[2:16:54] Speaker 1: I can just say, listen, the reason why cancer exists
[2:16:56] Speaker 1: is because of the cancer unicorn. It's the evil twin
[2:17:01] Speaker 1: of the life granting unicorn. And she went wayward about
[2:17:04] Speaker 1: four million years ago, like, do you make up anything
[2:17:07] Speaker 1: to justify what you're seeing around you? We're trying to
[2:17:10] Speaker 1: figure out why God.
[2:17:13] Speaker 17: I absolutely agree, perhaps everything exists, including that cancer causing uniccorn,
[2:17:22] Speaker 17: Like think about it. Why do you like there's things
[2:17:25] Speaker 17: like curses and people that have been unlucky and unlucky,
[2:17:28] Speaker 17: and how can that all just be like this pure possibility?
[2:17:33] Speaker 17: Like in the history there's been just people with tons
[2:17:35] Speaker 17: of bad luck. And if there there is most likely
[2:17:39] Speaker 17: a man in the sky trying to.
[2:17:42] Speaker 3: He's trying.
[2:17:43] Speaker 17: He's jealous of us as humans.
[2:17:45] Speaker 1: So just did you say that?
[2:17:47] Speaker 5: Do you?
[2:17:47] Speaker 1: Do you think the Bible's true?
[2:17:50] Speaker 7: Yes?
[2:17:50] Speaker 1: I do believe the Bible's true, so, but just not
[2:17:53] Speaker 1: true when it describes God's attributes.
[2:17:57] Speaker 17: I think it was a I think the factual existence
[2:18:02] Speaker 17: of the Christian God is true, but I feel like
[2:18:04] Speaker 17: the Bible is a lie and it's been pushed by
[2:18:07] Speaker 17: the New.
[2:18:08] Speaker 1: World warder since So the Bible is not true.
[2:18:12] Speaker 4: Okay, for the.
[2:18:14] Speaker 17: Existence of God, yes, but on the moral claims, on
[2:18:17] Speaker 17: what he presents himself to be as all good, all this,
[2:18:21] Speaker 17: I think that is not true.
[2:18:23] Speaker 14: Yeah.
[2:18:24] Speaker 1: Cool, So what's the evidence again that this weird twisted God.
[2:18:28] Speaker 18: Exists cancer and unlucky people.
[2:18:33] Speaker 1: It's not evidence.
[2:18:38] Speaker 17: What would you classify as reliable? Like what evidence would
[2:18:43] Speaker 17: you accept?
[2:18:46] Speaker 1: But not not that evidence. That's because that's not evidence. Okay,
[2:18:51] Speaker 1: So like what evidence I would accept is your relevant?
[2:18:54] Speaker 1: The reality is what you just listed is not evidence.
[2:18:57] Speaker 1: You're just saying, well, here's why, right, here's something I see.
[2:19:01] Speaker 1: I'm just gonna blame it on God. But just not evidence.
[2:19:04] Speaker 1: That's just something you believe. That's like your opinion, man, Okay, Okay, let.
[2:19:10] Speaker 3: Me let me think.
[2:19:13] Speaker 17: I don't know if this is right, but I've heard
[2:19:15] Speaker 17: that like Jehovah's name or is like in your DNA
[2:19:19] Speaker 17: or something, and I know he's trying to they're trying
[2:19:23] Speaker 17: to control us the New World Order through Jehovah.
[2:19:26] Speaker 13: This guy's gotta be a troll.
[2:19:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, Joshua's the troll. Listen, josh thanks for coming by,
[2:19:31] Speaker 1: But you're not a real person. Okay, nobody can believe
[2:19:36] Speaker 1: that nonsense, No way, he's not a troll. I agree.
[2:19:42] Speaker 1: Definitely a troll.
[2:19:43] Speaker 2: All right.
[2:19:43] Speaker 1: Well, next in is what's that Jim?
[2:19:46] Speaker 3: I was just saying, I'm not sure, but he's definitely
[2:19:48] Speaker 3: throwing spaghetti against the wall. To see what would stick.
[2:19:52] Speaker 1: That seemed to be the case. That seemed to be
[2:19:55] Speaker 1: the case. We're gonna get Naser in here next, Zelda,
[2:19:58] Speaker 1: great to see is thinking for the super tests. Well,
[2:20:00] Speaker 1: I'm converted. I think it was the crash out. Oh hey,
[2:20:03] Speaker 1: you're right, the Pillbok crash out finally made you believe
[2:20:06] Speaker 1: in God. I guess it is effective sometimes, just not
[2:20:11] Speaker 1: all the time. And I reactor, good to see it says,
[2:20:14] Speaker 1: just be nice. It shall be the whole of the law.
[2:20:17] Speaker 1: Alistair Crawley probably, I'm sure he said that. I'm sure
[2:20:21] Speaker 1: he did. And uh, Parissa, good to see you. Thank
[2:20:24] Speaker 1: you for sending out ten deconstruction zon't gifted memberships. I
[2:20:28] Speaker 1: really appreciate that.
[2:20:29] Speaker 3: Friend.
[2:20:30] Speaker 1: Let's get NASA in here, and then after that we'll
[2:20:35] Speaker 1: get a manual. And if you're watching on YouTube, you
[2:20:38] Speaker 1: can join the stream by going to tiny dot cc
[2:20:41] Speaker 1: ford slash dz guest. There's a clickable link in the
[2:20:44] Speaker 1: description of the video. If you're watching on TikTok, you
[2:20:47] Speaker 1: can click the guest request at the bottom bar and
[2:20:50] Speaker 1: you'll be in the queue on TikTok. So Nasha, welcome in.
[2:20:54] Speaker 1: Are at least eighteen and do you believe in God? Hello,
[2:21:05] Speaker 1: Nasir Bueller. No, nothing you can request by accident. Okay,
[2:21:18] Speaker 1: well guess we'll just guess we'll drop and we'll move
[2:21:23] Speaker 1: on to our next.
[2:21:30] Speaker 5: Hello.
[2:21:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, welcome in Emmanuel. Your MIC's I think you're Mike's
[2:21:34] Speaker 1: a little bit better now, Okay, Emmanuel, are at least eighteen?
[2:21:37] Speaker 1: And do you believe in God?
[2:21:39] Speaker 5: Yeah? I'm nineteen, and yes, I believe in God. I'm
[2:21:42] Speaker 5: a Christian. I believe the Bible is reliable, especially the Gospels,
[2:21:49] Speaker 5: and I believe that the cosmological argument is a good
[2:21:56] Speaker 5: argument for God's existence. Can is my micro? Fine?
[2:22:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's picking up some background noise. Its not a problem.
[2:22:05] Speaker 13: Okay, all right.
[2:22:07] Speaker 1: Why would we accept that the Bible is reliable when
[2:22:09] Speaker 1: it says a bunch of stuff that's not true?
[2:22:13] Speaker 5: Can you elaborate on that? What does it say that's
[2:22:15] Speaker 5: not true?
[2:22:17] Speaker 1: Do you think rock Badger's chew cud? Huh? Do you
[2:22:21] Speaker 1: think Rock Badger's chew cut?
[2:22:25] Speaker 5: Rock Badgers chew could?
[2:22:27] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[2:22:29] Speaker 5: I don't know what that means.
[2:22:31] Speaker 1: Do you know what chewing cut is?
[2:22:34] Speaker 5: Chewing? Is that like bark something?
[2:22:37] Speaker 1: Do you know what cows do?
[2:22:40] Speaker 5: Oh? I don't think the Babe was a scientific book.
[2:22:46] Speaker 1: I I'm just I'm not saying it's a scientific book.
[2:22:49] Speaker 1: I'm saying it makes a statement that is false. The
[2:22:52] Speaker 1: statement is that rock badger's chew cut, and they in
[2:22:55] Speaker 1: fact do not chew cut.
[2:22:58] Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know the context today, but I'm
[2:23:01] Speaker 5: referring to the Gospels.
[2:23:03] Speaker 1: The context is irrelevant. It says in Leviticus eleven four
[2:23:08] Speaker 1: and five that rock badgers chew cut. Do you think
[2:23:11] Speaker 1: that you couldn't.
[2:23:14] Speaker 5: I don't know a thing about rock badges.
[2:23:16] Speaker 1: Now, the answer is no. Do birds gather food? Because
[2:23:22] Speaker 1: Jesus says, because you want the Gospels, Jesus says in
[2:23:25] Speaker 1: Matthew six twenty six, look at the birds of the air.
[2:23:28] Speaker 1: They neither sow, nor reap, nor gather into barns, And
[2:23:31] Speaker 1: yet your heavenly Father feeds them. But there's actually quite
[2:23:35] Speaker 1: a few birds that do gather food and store them up.
[2:23:39] Speaker 5: I don't think Jesus is saying that He's I don't
[2:23:41] Speaker 5: think Jesus is saying that birds don't get food, and
[2:23:47] Speaker 5: that's a parable.
[2:23:50] Speaker 2: No.
[2:23:50] Speaker 1: He says they don't sew or reap or gather food
[2:23:54] Speaker 1: into barns. Clearly, he's saying that, Listen, they don't do
[2:23:58] Speaker 1: the stuff that humans do, not planting crops, they're not
[2:24:01] Speaker 1: harvesting crops, and they're not storing crops up. Yet God
[2:24:04] Speaker 1: takes care of them anyways, it says the Father feeds them, right, So,
[2:24:09] Speaker 1: but that's just simply not true. Birds. There's actually quite
[2:24:12] Speaker 1: a few especial actually quite a few birds that they
[2:24:15] Speaker 1: actually do go and get food and store it up.
[2:24:19] Speaker 5: But that's not the point of the parable, though I
[2:24:22] Speaker 5: didn't ask you.
[2:24:24] Speaker 1: First of all, it is is The point of the
[2:24:25] Speaker 1: parable is that God takes care of people. You don't
[2:24:28] Speaker 1: have to worry about anything like so in Matthew six,
[2:24:32] Speaker 1: Jesus says that you don't have to worry about what
[2:24:34] Speaker 1: you eat or what you drink. God will, We'll make
[2:24:36] Speaker 1: sure you get it.
[2:24:38] Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not about it getting it like factually correct.
[2:24:45] Speaker 1: Like his parable, his parable doesn't match reality.
[2:24:51] Speaker 5: Yeah, is a fictional story in the first place.
[2:24:54] Speaker 1: No parables, parables map onto reality.
[2:24:57] Speaker 3: Right.
[2:24:58] Speaker 1: The moral of this parable, first of all, it's not
[2:25:00] Speaker 1: a parable. It's a statement. I don't know why you're
[2:25:03] Speaker 1: calling it a parable. But the point of what he's
[2:25:06] Speaker 1: saying is that birds don't plant, they don't harvest, and
[2:25:10] Speaker 1: they don't gather. God takes care of them. God feeds them,
[2:25:14] Speaker 1: and you're more valuable than the birds. Therefore, don't worry
[2:25:18] Speaker 1: about tomorrow. Don't worry about what you'll eat. God will
[2:25:21] Speaker 1: make sure that you get it. So the whole point
[2:25:23] Speaker 1: of what he's saying is, Hey, look at these fuckers.
[2:25:26] Speaker 1: They don't gather food and store it up, but they
[2:25:29] Speaker 1: do gather food and store it up.
[2:25:33] Speaker 5: But he used them as an example of how God
[2:25:37] Speaker 5: provides for them, staying.
[2:25:40] Speaker 1: I know, yes, the example works because birds don't store
[2:25:44] Speaker 1: up food according to him. That's why what he's saying
[2:25:49] Speaker 1: is workable for what he's trying to teach. But in
[2:25:52] Speaker 1: real life there are lots of birds that do gather
[2:25:56] Speaker 1: the lesson.
[2:25:58] Speaker 5: It's not that birds don't eats, that they don't need you.
[2:26:02] Speaker 1: Birds don't eat. It's anything about eating. What he's saying
[2:26:06] Speaker 1: that birds don't worry about tomorrow. Birds aren't worried about
[2:26:11] Speaker 1: what they're going to eat tomorrow. God takes care of them,
[2:26:14] Speaker 1: But they are worried about what they're going to eat tomorrow,
[2:26:16] Speaker 1: which is why they store up food.
[2:26:18] Speaker 5: Yeah, this whole thing is like a red herring, because.
[2:26:24] Speaker 1: Nothing is a red herring. It's just something that Jesus
[2:26:28] Speaker 1: said that clearly isn't true.
[2:26:31] Speaker 5: It doesn't have to be true.
[2:26:34] Speaker 1: It does it's not a parable. He said something about
[2:26:38] Speaker 1: birds that is factually untrue. He says a bunch of
[2:26:41] Speaker 1: stuff that aren't true. Jesus says in John three point
[2:26:44] Speaker 1: thirteen that no one has ascended into heaven except the
[2:26:47] Speaker 1: one who descended from heaven, the son of Man. Do
[2:26:51] Speaker 1: you think that Jesus is the only one that ascended
[2:26:54] Speaker 1: into heaven?
[2:26:57] Speaker 5: Yes?
[2:26:58] Speaker 1: Have you read the Hebrew Bible?
[2:27:04] Speaker 5: I know you're referring to Elijah or that guy who's.
[2:27:07] Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, Elijah and Enoch. So did they ascend into heaven?
[2:27:20] Speaker 5: You're ticking up into heaven?
[2:27:23] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[2:27:23] Speaker 1: It says he ascended into heaven in a whirlwind. So
[2:27:27] Speaker 1: did he ascend into heaven?
[2:27:37] Speaker 5: Well, okay, I can grant that.
[2:27:40] Speaker 1: Okay. So Jesus here said something again that's just actually untrue.
[2:27:45] Speaker 5: I was referring to historical like historical evidence, like archaeological evidence,
[2:27:51] Speaker 5: archaeological evidence. What a resurrection, for example, what's.
[2:27:58] Speaker 1: The archaeological evidence that a human being resurrected?
[2:28:04] Speaker 5: Like for example, the Church of the Holy which is
[2:28:09] Speaker 5: the most.
[2:28:10] Speaker 1: Likely nothing to do with his resurrection.
[2:28:13] Speaker 5: No, it's the most likely tomb, the most likely burial tomb.
[2:28:17] Speaker 1: Of Jesus, based on what based on what data, Well,
[2:28:24] Speaker 1: it late.
[2:28:25] Speaker 5: The location described in the in the gospels to where
[2:28:29] Speaker 5: Jesus was buried. In what it says that Jesus was
[2:28:33] Speaker 5: buried in place of the skull that exactly matches the
[2:28:39] Speaker 5: burial it doesn't.
[2:28:41] Speaker 1: That region's got multiple tombs. That's why there's multiple tombs
[2:28:44] Speaker 1: throughout that region that are claiming to be the tomb
[2:28:47] Speaker 1: of Jesus.
[2:28:50] Speaker 5: All right, hold on, I'm gonna put up my notes.
[2:28:54] Speaker 1: We have no data as to where he was buried,
[2:28:59] Speaker 1: which you think would be more important, like a really
[2:29:02] Speaker 1: important detail if his empty tomb is so important.
[2:29:13] Speaker 5: All right, So, first off, one of them is recent
[2:29:19] Speaker 5: excavations beneath the Holy the Church of the Holy Sepulcher
[2:29:23] Speaker 5: reveals an ancient garden including olive trees and grape vince,
[2:29:28] Speaker 5: consistent with the Gospel of John's account of jesus garden
[2:29:34] Speaker 5: outside the city walls.
[2:29:37] Speaker 1: So so again you're missing the point that there are
[2:29:42] Speaker 1: other tombs and other gardens.
[2:29:44] Speaker 5: In the region.
[2:29:45] Speaker 1: There's not one of them most likely. Well, then you're wrong.
[2:29:51] Speaker 1: Just because there's a garden tomb has nothing to do
[2:29:55] Speaker 1: with whether or not this is the tomb. We literally
[2:29:58] Speaker 1: have no way of knowing where he was buried.
[2:30:01] Speaker 5: That doesn't matter. Like ever, the most likely, the most
[2:30:07] Speaker 5: likely location of jesus tomb is.
[2:30:10] Speaker 1: The Holy No, that's that's the claim, and you haven't
[2:30:14] Speaker 1: actually defended that claim. And also none of it, none
[2:30:18] Speaker 1: of it, none of it actually matters. I listened. Listen,
[2:30:23] Speaker 1: you haven't presented any actual evidence that that's where he
[2:30:27] Speaker 1: was buried. But even if even if he was buried there,
[2:30:30] Speaker 1: it's meaningless. An empty tomb has nothing to do with
[2:30:33] Speaker 1: Jesus resurrecting. The likelihood like you can know it certainly
[2:30:38] Speaker 1: does not raise the likelihood of a human being resurrected.
[2:30:42] Speaker 1: People knew the Fuller Shop where Aristius died and resurrected.
[2:30:46] Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that he died and resurrected there.
[2:30:49] Speaker 5: There's a bunch of notes between Audio's empty tomb.
[2:30:55] Speaker 1: The empty Two accounts don't even agree with each other.
[2:31:00] Speaker 1: Who was the first one to get there?
[2:31:06] Speaker 13: Can you show me like John?
[2:31:11] Speaker 1: John tells you, John tells you who's the first person
[2:31:14] Speaker 1: to get there? Can you the vice John twenty, verse
[2:31:19] Speaker 1: one and two. John Waite, John twenty, verses one and two.
[2:31:29] Speaker 1: Early on the first day of the week, while it
[2:31:31] Speaker 1: was still dark, Mary Magdalene came to the tomb and
[2:31:34] Speaker 1: saw the stone has been removed from the tomb. So
[2:31:37] Speaker 1: while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene shows up. She
[2:31:41] Speaker 1: sees the stone is rolled away. She sees that Jesus
[2:31:44] Speaker 1: isn't there, and she goes to run to tell the disciples.
[2:31:47] Speaker 1: So she ran and went to Simon, Peter and the
[2:31:49] Speaker 1: other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them,
[2:31:51] Speaker 1: they have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and
[2:31:53] Speaker 1: we do not know where they have laid them. And
[2:31:55] Speaker 1: Mark agrees. If you go to the long ending of Mark,
[2:31:59] Speaker 1: which is Mark six, Mark says the same. Mark says
[2:32:03] Speaker 1: that the appearance was first to marry, because now after
[2:32:08] Speaker 1: he rose early on the first day of the week,
[2:32:10] Speaker 1: he appeared first to Marry Magdalene, from whom he had
[2:32:14] Speaker 1: cast out seven demons. And she went out and told
[2:32:17] Speaker 1: those who had been with him while they were mourning
[2:32:19] Speaker 1: and weeping. Though I plus the women and the men,
[2:32:23] Speaker 1: which would explain then why. In fact, we see at
[2:32:28] Speaker 1: the beginning of Mark sixteen says when the sabbath was over,
[2:32:32] Speaker 1: Mary Magdalene, the mother and Marry the mother of James
[2:32:34] Speaker 1: and Salame, brought spices so that they might go and
[2:32:36] Speaker 1: anoint him. And very early on the first day of
[2:32:39] Speaker 1: the week, when the sun had risen, they went to
[2:32:41] Speaker 1: the tomb. And then in Matthew, it happens before the
[2:32:45] Speaker 1: son is even risen.
[2:32:54] Speaker 5: Before. Oh, you're referring to before, like before sunset.
[2:33:04] Speaker 1: No, before it's risen.
[2:33:07] Speaker 5: Yeah, that's that complete that can be explained by science.
[2:33:12] Speaker 1: No, it can't be explained by science either either the
[2:33:16] Speaker 1: either the women went when the sun was up or
[2:33:19] Speaker 1: the women went when the sun wasn't up.
[2:33:22] Speaker 5: No, but the sun was rising. The first says that
[2:33:26] Speaker 5: when they in the morning when it's.
[2:33:30] Speaker 1: Still dark, Yes, when it was still dark, which means
[2:33:34] Speaker 1: the sun the sun didn't rise every day though, like, yeah,
[2:33:39] Speaker 1: we agree, the sun rises every day, that it's still dark.
[2:33:47] Speaker 1: By the way, it's dark when the sun hasn't risen. Matthew.
[2:33:52] Speaker 1: After the sabbath, the first day of the week was dawning,
[2:33:55] Speaker 1: and Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see
[2:33:57] Speaker 1: the tomb. What's going on with this translation? They were dawning.
[2:34:04] Speaker 5: Are you listening to me?
[2:34:06] Speaker 1: No, because you're you're you're saying nonsense.
[2:34:12] Speaker 5: Okay, what what I'm trying to say is that the
[2:34:16] Speaker 5: sun hasn't, you know, cast its lights down on there,
[2:34:21] Speaker 5: down on the earth.
[2:34:22] Speaker 1: It's I don't know if you know how the sun works.
[2:34:25] Speaker 1: But when when the sun had risen, it's it's not
[2:34:28] Speaker 1: dark anymore.
[2:34:31] Speaker 5: I didn't say it was completely missing though, none of.
[2:34:34] Speaker 1: The it doesn't have to be completely risen. So let
[2:34:45] Speaker 1: me piece it together for you. According to Mark, and
[2:34:47] Speaker 1: according to John, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb first.
[2:34:50] Speaker 1: He went there before the sun was up, while it
[2:34:53] Speaker 1: was still dark. She got there and saw that Jesus
[2:34:56] Speaker 1: wasn't in the tomb, and that the tomb had the
[2:34:58] Speaker 1: stone already rolled away. Then there's a second setting where
[2:35:03] Speaker 1: Mary and the women with spices go to the tomb
[2:35:06] Speaker 1: after the sun has already come up, and they're talking
[2:35:08] Speaker 1: to themselves saying, hey, who's going to roll away the stone?
[2:35:11] Speaker 1: This second trip is silly if John is telling the
[2:35:14] Speaker 1: truth or the ending of Market telling the truth, because
[2:35:17] Speaker 1: there's no way they would be going to the tomb
[2:35:19] Speaker 1: to spice Jesus's body if he's not there, and Mary
[2:35:24] Speaker 1: Magdalene knew that he in fact wasn't there, and they
[2:35:27] Speaker 1: wouldn't be debating about who's going to roll away the
[2:35:29] Speaker 1: stone because Mary Magdalene was already there and saw that
[2:35:31] Speaker 1: the stone was in fact rolled the way. You cannot
[2:35:35] Speaker 1: harmonize the four Gospels on the resurrection account, which is
[2:35:38] Speaker 1: crazy because it's supposed to be the most important story
[2:35:42] Speaker 1: of all of history.
[2:35:46] Speaker 5: I mean, most of your arguments is an argument for silence.
[2:35:51] Speaker 1: It's not an argument from silence. So what I'm saying
[2:35:53] Speaker 1: is the story you said is reliable is not reliable.
[2:35:57] Speaker 1: It doesn't even agree within its se elf on the details.
[2:36:04] Speaker 5: Based on what.
[2:36:06] Speaker 1: I just told you, The two trip narrative is stupid.
[2:36:12] Speaker 1: There's no way that Mary Magdalene is going with the
[2:36:14] Speaker 1: other women to the tomb despice Jesus's body and roll
[2:36:17] Speaker 1: away the stone if she already knows that Jesus ain't
[2:36:21] Speaker 1: there and the stones already rolled away.
[2:36:28] Speaker 5: How do you even get that that? How do you
[2:36:31] Speaker 5: even piece that?
[2:36:33] Speaker 1: We just read it John chapter twenty, verses one and two,
[2:36:36] Speaker 1: and Marri Maitland goes to the tomb by herself alone
[2:36:39] Speaker 1: while it was still dark. And then and then in
[2:36:46] Speaker 1: the other gospels, Mary goes with the other women when
[2:36:51] Speaker 1: it's light, which means she went to the tomb twice,
[2:36:58] Speaker 1: which is in Coheren and.
[2:37:01] Speaker 5: The woman journeyed to the tomb just after sunrise.
[2:37:06] Speaker 1: I know, yet, just after sunrise, which is this? Which
[2:37:11] Speaker 1: is the second time? That's Mary Magdalen's second trip. That's
[2:37:16] Speaker 1: Mary Magdalen's second trip.
[2:37:19] Speaker 5: How do you even get that?
[2:37:20] Speaker 1: Like John chapter twenty, you're hinging on the John chapter twenty, Mary,
[2:37:31] Speaker 1: on the first day of the week, while it was
[2:37:33] Speaker 1: still dark, Mary Magdalen came to the tomb. It means
[2:37:37] Speaker 1: the sun hasn't risen yet. The cognitive dissonance is thick
[2:37:46] Speaker 1: with this one. And the funny thing is Emmanuel, even
[2:37:53] Speaker 1: if all four stories coincided on every detail, they wouldn't
[2:37:57] Speaker 1: make it true.
[2:38:06] Speaker 5: Okay, Well, I was obviously not prepared for for the
[2:38:12] Speaker 5: talk about the Gospels. I got a bit of dusty.
[2:38:15] Speaker 5: But I'd like to go over go over the contingency,
[2:38:20] Speaker 5: the contingency argument for God. Sure, I'd like to present
[2:38:25] Speaker 5: my syllogism. Okay, so.
[2:38:30] Speaker 1: Before you start, I'm going to put a timer on
[2:38:32] Speaker 1: the board. We do a timer for all philosophical arguments.
[2:38:36] Speaker 1: You get ten minutes per sillogism. If your syllogism doesn't
[2:38:40] Speaker 1: work in ten minutes, you gotta go rework it. It's
[2:38:43] Speaker 1: not a good one, So go ahead.
[2:38:44] Speaker 5: Premise one does the universe is the totality of all
[2:38:48] Speaker 5: contentent things?
[2:38:50] Speaker 3: Two?
[2:38:50] Speaker 5: Under the the principle of sufficient reason, all contingent things
[2:38:56] Speaker 5: need an explanation for the existence doing so, to.
[2:39:01] Speaker 1: Be sure, Emanuel, I have to write these down so
[2:39:03] Speaker 1: you can't just fly through them. I got the first one,
[2:39:06] Speaker 1: The universe is the totality of all contingent things, right, yes, okay?
[2:39:12] Speaker 1: What's the next one?
[2:39:14] Speaker 5: Under the principle sufficient reason of ps ps R?
[2:39:21] Speaker 1: What's PSR?
[2:39:22] Speaker 5: The p the principal sufficient reason Every contingent things need
[2:39:27] Speaker 5: needs an explanation for the existence.
[2:39:30] Speaker 1: It's okay, So then so then P two should be
[2:39:35] Speaker 1: all contingent things need and explanation, right.
[2:39:43] Speaker 5: Yeah, for the existence.
[2:39:46] Speaker 1: But but I do before we move too further, too
[2:39:49] Speaker 1: much further in the syllogism, I would probably disagree that
[2:39:55] Speaker 1: only contingent things need an explanation. I have no reason
[2:39:58] Speaker 1: to believe that non contingent things don't require an explanation too,
[2:40:03] Speaker 1: Like it seems like a really silly special plead, not.
[2:40:07] Speaker 5: Witty because they're brute facts.
[2:40:10] Speaker 1: Like you don't, oh, I would just appeal to whatever
[2:40:16] Speaker 1: brute facts I wanted to. If we're just allowed to
[2:40:18] Speaker 1: appeal to brute facts, I.
[2:40:21] Speaker 5: Mean, non conchanged things aren't are inherently brute facts.
[2:40:30] Speaker 1: Fair enough? Go ahead, listen, you're the one that wants
[2:40:33] Speaker 1: to use brute facts. I'm writing down the syllogism. What's
[2:40:36] Speaker 1: your next one?
[2:40:38] Speaker 5: I mean, your expremise to avoid an infinite weakress or
[2:40:43] Speaker 5: going all the way back we have, we eventually reach
[2:40:48] Speaker 5: an uncaused cause, and under classical theism, this is known
[2:40:52] Speaker 5: as God.
[2:40:54] Speaker 1: Okay, so we know the conclusion. The conclusion is that
[2:41:00] Speaker 1: God is the inn uncontingent thing or the non congent thing. Yep, okay, cool.
[2:41:07] Speaker 1: Every single premise and the conclusion is wrong. And I'm
[2:41:10] Speaker 1: gonna explain why. I just gotta write it down, Okay,
[2:41:14] Speaker 1: So start at number one. The universe is a fatality
[2:41:17] Speaker 1: of contingent things. We literally have no idea, no idea.
[2:41:22] Speaker 1: If there are contingent things and non contingent things in
[2:41:26] Speaker 1: the universe. I mean, it's when we use words like contingent,
[2:41:31] Speaker 1: we're assuming that we're talking about physical things when we
[2:41:35] Speaker 1: get down the quantum level. I don't know if that
[2:41:37] Speaker 1: necessarily is always the case, But that being said, like
[2:41:40] Speaker 1: when you say contingent, I assume you're referring to the
[2:41:43] Speaker 1: material world. I don't know what you think about the
[2:41:47] Speaker 1: immaterial world. But also I don't see why premise number
[2:41:51] Speaker 1: one would ever get you to a point where you
[2:41:53] Speaker 1: needed to appeal to something that's non contingent, because you
[2:41:56] Speaker 1: certainly could have a world where everything is contingent upon
[2:41:59] Speaker 1: everything else. It's called symbiosis.
[2:42:06] Speaker 16: What.
[2:42:07] Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm saying that. I'm saying that contingent things need
[2:42:11] Speaker 5: an explanation because that's under the principle sufficient reason.
[2:42:16] Speaker 1: Yes, I know, I know. Yeah. What I'm saying is
[2:42:20] Speaker 1: you can have contingent things that are contingent on each other.
[2:42:28] Speaker 5: How does the how does that work?
[2:42:32] Speaker 1: I just told you symbiosis content?
[2:42:35] Speaker 5: I mean, you didn't tell me how. You just said.
[2:42:38] Speaker 5: It's symbiosis.
[2:42:40] Speaker 1: Just something that is dependent on something else and is
[2:42:44] Speaker 1: also dependent on that thing. Think of, say like animals
[2:42:49] Speaker 1: that have symbiotic relationships.
[2:42:53] Speaker 5: Yeah, but I don't. I don't think you can phisophically
[2:42:58] Speaker 5: justify a content a symbiotic content, because that's what That's
[2:43:04] Speaker 5: not what I mean by contingent.
[2:43:06] Speaker 3: I mean.
[2:43:07] Speaker 5: What I mean by contingent is that something that is
[2:43:11] Speaker 5: is changing. That's one two that it's.
[2:43:16] Speaker 1: Uh, so contingent means it must be changing.
[2:43:21] Speaker 5: Yeah, it changed, it changes, it goes, it goes through change.
[2:43:27] Speaker 1: Well it's wait, everything goes through changes. We don't know
[2:43:32] Speaker 1: of anything that doesn't go through changes.
[2:43:35] Speaker 5: Yeah, that's why everything is contingent.
[2:43:38] Speaker 1: And well, I agree, Yes, everything is contingent. There's no
[2:43:43] Speaker 1: such thing as a non contingent.
[2:43:46] Speaker 5: Everything in this universe. I was referring to the universe.
[2:43:50] Speaker 1: Everything that we know to exist is contingent. Using your definition,
[2:43:54] Speaker 1: Why would we believe that there's something non contingent.
[2:43:59] Speaker 5: Because we need a stomping point? Why because it will
[2:44:07] Speaker 5: just go infinitely backwards?
[2:44:08] Speaker 13: Unless what what was the problem with that?
[2:44:11] Speaker 1: Can you demonstrate that infinite regresses are a problem. I
[2:44:15] Speaker 1: don't think you can.
[2:44:17] Speaker 5: If notite regresses only work if if say, uh, the
[2:44:23] Speaker 5: universe is necessary, but it's yeah, so.
[2:44:27] Speaker 1: What it proved proved to me that the universe isn't
[2:44:31] Speaker 1: necessary You've already appealed to one brute fact. Your your
[2:44:35] Speaker 1: brute fact is that there's a brute fact God. You
[2:44:40] Speaker 1: have no evidence for that. You just you're just asserting it.
[2:44:43] Speaker 1: I don't believe that your God is a brute fact.
[2:44:45] Speaker 1: In fact, if I'm going to appeal to a brute fact,
[2:44:47] Speaker 1: I'm going to say that the universe is the only
[2:44:50] Speaker 1: thing that's necessary. That's the only brute fact, and I
[2:44:52] Speaker 1: know that the universe exists.
[2:44:58] Speaker 5: Again, I just go back to what I was saying,
[2:45:01] Speaker 5: that the universe can't be a boute fact if it's content.
[2:45:07] Speaker 5: Why not, because it's content. No contingency.
[2:45:13] Speaker 1: Contingency doesn't have anything to do with a brute fact.
[2:45:15] Speaker 1: It's an infinite chain of contingency.
[2:45:19] Speaker 5: Yes it does, because foot facts means that something is
[2:45:25] Speaker 5: it's necessary.
[2:45:25] Speaker 1: And doesn't I know, yeah, it is necessary. It doesn't
[2:45:29] Speaker 1: require an explanation. I agree, it's a brute fact. We
[2:45:32] Speaker 1: know that the universe exists. We have no reason to
[2:45:34] Speaker 1: believe that there was ever a first moment. We have
[2:45:37] Speaker 1: no reason to believe that there was ever no universe.
[2:45:39] Speaker 1: We have no reason to believe there was ever nothing.
[2:45:42] Speaker 1: We kind of do, but no, we don't. There's no
[2:45:45] Speaker 1: reason whatsoever to believe that there was one nothing.
[2:45:47] Speaker 5: Find a finite age, and it you know, came came
[2:45:51] Speaker 5: about from a sage.
[2:45:52] Speaker 1: No, it does not. Neither one of those two things
[2:45:55] Speaker 1: are true. How we we have no way of knowing
[2:45:59] Speaker 1: how old the universe is. There's no such thing as
[2:46:02] Speaker 1: the age of the universe. What you can do is say,
[2:46:05] Speaker 1: it's been so many years since the expansion event, what
[2:46:09] Speaker 1: we call the Big Bang. But that's not that's not
[2:46:12] Speaker 1: saying that there was no matter prior to this point.
[2:46:15] Speaker 1: All we're doing is measuring the time between now and
[2:46:18] Speaker 1: the expansion event.
[2:46:19] Speaker 13: That's it.
[2:46:20] Speaker 1: It says nothing about prior to the expansion.
[2:46:23] Speaker 5: But as far as we know, that's the that's the
[2:46:28] Speaker 5: stunning points.
[2:46:30] Speaker 1: No, that not we don't know that at all.
[2:46:35] Speaker 3: I mean, that's that can't be created or destroyed. That's
[2:46:41] Speaker 3: the problem going Our ound end to is that energy
[2:46:43] Speaker 3: cannot be created or destroyed, and the laws of thermodynamics
[2:46:48] Speaker 3: pretty much guarantee that life will occur, because there's no
[2:46:51] Speaker 3: better way to create entropy than to create life. So
[2:46:55] Speaker 3: your brute fact is energy, not God. It's energy.
[2:47:10] Speaker 5: It's energy, a physical thing.
[2:47:13] Speaker 1: Uh, No, to be sure. Energy is a measure of
[2:47:18] Speaker 1: what we call physical things. It's not something that has
[2:47:20] Speaker 1: its own ontology.
[2:47:23] Speaker 5: Okay, so I mean by by your guys logic, how
[2:47:27] Speaker 5: is energy above fact?
[2:47:30] Speaker 3: If it's not physical, it can either be created nor described.
[2:47:37] Speaker 5: Yeah, but that's depending on space time. We're talking about that.
[2:47:42] Speaker 3: Nope equals mc square, dude does all kinds are really nasty.
[2:47:51] Speaker 5: That's depending on space time.
[2:47:54] Speaker 3: Though it's not.
[2:47:56] Speaker 1: It's not dependent on energy.
[2:47:58] Speaker 3: Precedes precedes the Big Band. It's the only thing that can.
[2:48:02] Speaker 3: We don't know how the Big Bang got started or why.
[2:48:05] Speaker 3: I didn't know all that, but it did.
[2:48:09] Speaker 5: Does anyone say that, like it's like can you sell
[2:48:13] Speaker 5: your sos or something?
[2:48:14] Speaker 3: Because yeah, it's just basic physical You can't create that.
[2:48:21] Speaker 3: You can't create or destroy. Energy is just a basic
[2:48:24] Speaker 3: law of physics.
[2:48:25] Speaker 5: But that doesn't mean that energy existed before space time.
[2:48:28] Speaker 5: That doesn't make any Yes, it.
[2:48:30] Speaker 1: Does illogically follows if you if you have a conservation
[2:48:35] Speaker 1: of energy, then you would need evidence that there was
[2:48:38] Speaker 1: once a state with no energy. What's the evidence of that?
[2:48:46] Speaker 1: If you if we have a universal principle that we
[2:48:51] Speaker 1: observe in the universe, namely that matter and energy are conserved.
[2:48:57] Speaker 1: Then what that means is that we have no reason
[2:49:00] Speaker 1: to believe there was a state without energy because energy
[2:49:04] Speaker 1: is in fact conserved. So we would need you to
[2:49:09] Speaker 1: demonstrate that there was once no energy. So we ran
[2:49:19] Speaker 1: out of timer, philbro Timer. But I mean, you're nice enough.
[2:49:22] Speaker 1: Here's some advice. Okay, all of your arguments, I assume
[2:49:26] Speaker 1: like you came in with the KLOM. You're talking about
[2:49:28] Speaker 1: the KLOM, now you're doing this particular one. The reason
[2:49:32] Speaker 1: why all of these arguments fail is because your starting
[2:49:35] Speaker 1: point is that there was once nothing and then something
[2:49:38] Speaker 1: came into an existence. We have no evidence for that.
[2:49:41] Speaker 1: There's no reason to believe that. That's not what science teaches, right,
[2:49:45] Speaker 1: which means the KLOM fails, The contingency argument fails, the
[2:49:49] Speaker 1: primover argument fails, the argument from change fails. All of
[2:49:53] Speaker 1: these arguments fail because you're presupposing that there has to
[2:49:57] Speaker 1: be an initial moment where there was no nothing and
[2:50:00] Speaker 1: then something, but we have no reason to believe that
[2:50:03] Speaker 1: to be the case.
[2:50:05] Speaker 5: The Big Bank itself presupposed is a you know, previous point,
[2:50:10] Speaker 5: like a point before before, like the Big Bang.
[2:50:15] Speaker 1: Yeah it does, you nailed it. Yeah it presupposes that
[2:50:18] Speaker 1: there is stuff happening prior to the Big Bang. The
[2:50:21] Speaker 1: Big Bang does not teach that there was nothing.
[2:50:26] Speaker 5: I mean to do? Does the column argument? Necessarily? It's
[2:50:31] Speaker 5: just that we don't know what's before it, so we
[2:50:33] Speaker 5: just say it's nothing.
[2:50:36] Speaker 3: Right using it, it does not get you to God.
[2:50:41] Speaker 14: It gets you that's a point.
[2:50:43] Speaker 1: But you're assuming there needs to be cause. Yeah, I agree.
[2:50:48] Speaker 1: Even if we granted the entirety of the column, it
[2:50:50] Speaker 1: wouldn't get you to God.
[2:50:54] Speaker 5: It gets us to the first cause though, right, But.
[2:50:57] Speaker 1: But it won't get you to God. You can have
[2:51:00] Speaker 1: a first cause, that's not God. And also the Clomn's broken,
[2:51:03] Speaker 1: there's no such You don't need a first cause.
[2:51:10] Speaker 5: What do you mean by that?
[2:51:12] Speaker 1: There's no need for a first cause. You would have
[2:51:15] Speaker 1: to demonstrate that there was once nothing, and you can't
[2:51:18] Speaker 1: do it. You only need a first cause if you
[2:51:25] Speaker 1: believe that the universe was once not in not in
[2:51:28] Speaker 1: an existence. But that's just not what science teaches. Science
[2:51:32] Speaker 1: doesn't teach that there was nothing and then boom, there
[2:51:34] Speaker 1: was a first cause. For all we know, the universe
[2:51:38] Speaker 1: is eternal. It's always existed, it will always exist in
[2:51:41] Speaker 1: the future. And there's no such thing as a first cause.
[2:51:47] Speaker 19: So okay, if you read that and physics is demonstrated,
[2:51:51] Speaker 19: there's no such thing as nothing, and that something can
[2:51:54] Speaker 19: come out of the closest thing to nothing that physics
[2:51:57] Speaker 19: can get.
[2:51:58] Speaker 3: So none of that works. Your first cause could be natural.
[2:52:03] Speaker 3: It could just be an energy fluctuation that created the
[2:52:06] Speaker 3: entire universe, which is why even if we grant you
[2:52:09] Speaker 3: the klomb, it doesn't get you to a god until
[2:52:12] Speaker 3: you eliminate all possible all other possible reasons, or you
[2:52:18] Speaker 3: can prove God exists. Otherwise, I'm very.
[2:52:23] Speaker 5: Aware of the quantum fluctuation stuff creating the universe. But
[2:52:29] Speaker 5: the reason why that one doesn't work is that you
[2:52:33] Speaker 5: need that's basic physics, dude, you need space time.
[2:52:36] Speaker 3: That's basic physics.
[2:52:38] Speaker 5: You need space time to mechanics to work. No no, no,
[2:52:44] Speaker 5: no no no.
[2:52:46] Speaker 3: So quantum mechanics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, and
[2:52:51] Speaker 3: the quantum fields never go to zero, does not require
[2:52:57] Speaker 3: space time, does not require space time, only requires energy
[2:53:00] Speaker 3: which cannot be treated or destroyed. So if you really
[2:53:07] Speaker 3: want to brewt fact, if you really want something that
[2:53:10] Speaker 3: is not contingent, I'm gonna we can point an energy
[2:53:13] Speaker 3: all day long, and we can prove energy exists. You
[2:53:19] Speaker 3: cannot prove your God exists. The only thing you can
[2:53:20] Speaker 3: do is claim that God is not contingent, that God
[2:53:26] Speaker 3: is necessary. Some thing you do is claim it. I
[2:53:28] Speaker 3: can go and point to energy and the fact that
[2:53:31] Speaker 3: it can't be created or destroyed, all the science behind
[2:53:33] Speaker 3: that and make the exact same plan.
[2:53:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, and even if quantum fields required space time, it
[2:53:41] Speaker 1: would be irrelevant. We would just say that they're all
[2:53:43] Speaker 1: part of the They're all part of a system that
[2:53:46] Speaker 1: existed eternally, like not a problem for us.
[2:54:05] Speaker 3: Got GPT isn't going to help you.
[2:54:08] Speaker 5: I'm not using tragic thinking. Like again, I'm just I'll
[2:54:12] Speaker 5: just have to pee myself. Like you're just appealing to,
[2:54:18] Speaker 5: you know, the the laws of nature, but the laws
[2:54:22] Speaker 5: of nature that didn't always.
[2:54:26] Speaker 1: I know, but that makes it just because like just
[2:54:30] Speaker 1: because like just because like the law of gravity wasn't known,
[2:54:34] Speaker 1: didn't mean that gravity didn't have any eternal existence.
[2:54:38] Speaker 5: I'm not talking about descriptive like the descriptive thought of nature.
[2:54:46] Speaker 5: I'm talking about like the the you know, the parameters
[2:54:51] Speaker 5: of the universe, like you know, they didn't always exist.
[2:54:56] Speaker 5: They like why why are you saying that.
[2:54:58] Speaker 1: No proof that they didn't exist. H prove that they
[2:55:02] Speaker 1: didn't exist. These are your assertions that have no evidence
[2:55:06] Speaker 1: for The Big Bang doesn't doesn't say that again. Nope,
[2:55:10] Speaker 1: the Big Bang doesn't presuppose that space time didn't exist,
[2:55:13] Speaker 1: or quantum fields didn't exist, or that the fuck the
[2:55:16] Speaker 1: Big Bang doesn't even presuppose that the that the entire
[2:55:20] Speaker 1: universe was part of that bang. In fact, there are
[2:55:22] Speaker 1: quite a few people who believe that the Big Bang
[2:55:25] Speaker 1: was simply a smaller event inside of an infinitely large universe.
[2:55:30] Speaker 1: We have really no reason to believe that there was
[2:55:33] Speaker 1: Like the laws of physics didn't exist prior to the
[2:55:35] Speaker 1: Big Bang.
[2:55:45] Speaker 5: I mean, okay, we actually do. One of them is
[2:55:50] Speaker 5: that that the you know, physics breaks down at those
[2:55:55] Speaker 5: levels and when.
[2:55:57] Speaker 3: We did more understanding of physics are on. Understanding of
[2:56:00] Speaker 3: physics breaks down at at the high energy levels necessary
[2:56:05] Speaker 3: for the Big Bang, and we don't have the math
[2:56:08] Speaker 3: to express it yet. But that doesn't mean we won't
[2:56:11] Speaker 3: ever have it. And it doesn't mean that your God exists,
[2:56:15] Speaker 3: because it's still the fact you need energy exists. God
[2:56:19] Speaker 3: is completely irrelevant, but energy, it's contingent.
[2:56:25] Speaker 5: It's it's.
[2:56:28] Speaker 1: Everything is contingent. It doesn't matter. Something being contingent has
[2:56:32] Speaker 1: nothing to do with it not existing.
[2:56:36] Speaker 5: Yeah, but if you tried some explanation.
[2:56:42] Speaker 1: Everything requires an explanation. I agree, everything is contingent. You
[2:56:46] Speaker 1: haven't demonstrated that there's anything that's not contingent. But no, Emmanuel,
[2:56:53] Speaker 1: you don't need a starting point. You can assert it
[2:56:56] Speaker 1: as many times as you want. You're wrong every time.
[2:56:59] Speaker 5: Okay, can can you can? You have an infinite stack
[2:57:02] Speaker 5: of turtles?
[2:57:03] Speaker 1: I felt a surface, it's turtles all the way down.
[2:57:08] Speaker 1: The universe is eternal? Do you have You have zero evidence.
[2:57:13] Speaker 1: You don't have one piece of evidence that would demonstrate
[2:57:15] Speaker 1: that the universe isn't eternal. I mean so all so,
[2:57:29] Speaker 1: all of these arguments again, I told you this before.
[2:57:31] Speaker 1: All of your arguments depend on there once being nothing
[2:57:35] Speaker 1: and then there being something. That's why all of your
[2:57:38] Speaker 1: arguments are going to fail, because you can't demonstrate that
[2:57:41] Speaker 1: there was ever once nothing. You want there to be
[2:57:44] Speaker 1: a first moment. You want there to be something non contingent.
[2:57:47] Speaker 1: You want there to be a state where there was nothing.
[2:57:50] Speaker 1: You have no evidence of it.
[2:58:00] Speaker 5: All right, I think I have to you know, work
[2:58:04] Speaker 5: on my my uh stuff, Like it's been a while
[2:58:09] Speaker 5: since I've been doing this.
[2:58:12] Speaker 1: Yeah uh yeah, Well, I mean thanks for coming up, Emanuel.
[2:58:19] Speaker 1: You were you were at least a nice guest. It
[2:58:21] Speaker 1: was good to talk to him.
[2:58:23] Speaker 3: Thank you.
[2:58:27] Speaker 1: Well, he sounds a little disappointed when he left, But
[2:58:32] Speaker 1: that tends to be the case when people want to
[2:58:34] Speaker 1: run fielderal arguments. Here, let me grab a couple of Yeah,
[2:58:39] Speaker 1: what you I'm saying?
[2:58:40] Speaker 3: I mean, I say, yeah, well, they don't understand that
[2:58:44] Speaker 3: energy cannot be pretty or destroyed and doesn't require this universe.
[2:58:48] Speaker 1: So yeah, I think the problem, Jim is somebody set
[2:58:52] Speaker 1: these people up for failure, right, so, like somebody gave
[2:58:55] Speaker 1: him these bad arguments and they never thought for a second, oh,
[2:58:59] Speaker 1: somebody is gonna put back on the idea that there
[2:59:02] Speaker 1: was a first moment, Like it never crossed his mind
[2:59:04] Speaker 1: that somebody would push back on that. But the reality
[2:59:07] Speaker 1: is there's a huge contingency pun not intended of physicists,
[2:59:13] Speaker 1: cosmologists and other scientists who are saying, yeah, we have
[2:59:17] Speaker 1: no reason to believe there was nothing prior to the
[2:59:19] Speaker 1: Big Bang. In fact, the idea that there was nothing
[2:59:22] Speaker 1: prior to the Big Bang is an adorable old religion
[2:59:26] Speaker 1: religious notion from the very beginning of the Big Bang
[2:59:29] Speaker 1: era when people first started talking about it. It certainly
[2:59:32] Speaker 1: has nothing to do with modern science.
[2:59:35] Speaker 3: Yeah, and then the nothing they claim doesn't exist anyway, right,
[2:59:39] Speaker 3: that absolute philosophical nothing. You know, physicists have shown that
[2:59:44] Speaker 3: that doesn't exist, So you know you've got to go
[2:59:48] Speaker 3: with the physics. And we know that something can come
[2:59:52] Speaker 3: from the the nothing of physics. They've proven that as well.
[2:59:56] Speaker 1: So right right, we got a couple of we'll get
[3:00:00] Speaker 1: our next guests in here. Orbital defense says a rock
[3:00:05] Speaker 1: badger's don't chew cud, but honey badgers chew whatever they
[3:00:08] Speaker 1: want anytime they want, and that is fucking the truth.
[3:00:11] Speaker 1: Honey badgers don't care. Do not fuck with A honey
[3:00:14] Speaker 1: badger is not going to turn out well for you,
[3:00:16] Speaker 1: and chance great to see you. Thank you for the
[3:00:18] Speaker 1: ten hour supertest, says the first law a thermodynamics delta
[3:00:22] Speaker 1: E equals Q minus W concludes nothing can be created
[3:00:26] Speaker 1: nor destroyed, proving the universe had no beginning and will
[3:00:31] Speaker 1: never end. Why are people star arguing about this because well,
[3:00:34] Speaker 1: somebody preprogrammed their brain to believe that there must be
[3:00:38] Speaker 1: a starting point. And to be fair, most of these
[3:00:41] Speaker 1: bad filbro arguments have that presupposition. It's just not a
[3:00:44] Speaker 1: good one, Duke, good to see. My friend says, ay, Yes,
[3:00:47] Speaker 1: the third little pig didn't store food or chew cud,
[3:00:50] Speaker 1: but spend us days in prayer and soilid contemplation. And
[3:00:53] Speaker 1: when the wolf came to huff and puff and tempt
[3:00:55] Speaker 1: God and tempt God did smite his ass into oblivion.
[3:01:00] Speaker 1: That's certainly not the rendition I learned growing up, but
[3:01:03] Speaker 1: I think it is more exciting than the one that
[3:01:05] Speaker 1: I learned growing up. But it's interesting, like how much
[3:01:11] Speaker 1: the biblical authors didn't know about the natural world, Like
[3:01:14] Speaker 1: it thinks that the mustard seed is the smallest seed.
[3:01:17] Speaker 1: It's not those that birds don't store up food. They do.
[3:01:21] Speaker 1: The earth is only six thousand years old. It's not
[3:01:24] Speaker 1: good question. Thank you for the supertests. The Holy Spirit
[3:01:27] Speaker 1: is evil, inspires slavery, holy war, et cetera. This is blasphemy.
[3:01:31] Speaker 1: So I graduated my deconstruction training decades ago to pebbles.
[3:01:37] Speaker 1: Hell is a big stick atheists and fifteen good question.
[3:01:40] Speaker 1: This is the case. So like religion carries out like
[3:01:44] Speaker 1: a system of carrots and sticks. It starts out usually
[3:01:48] Speaker 1: with carrots, and it ends with sticks. That's why the
[3:01:51] Speaker 1: earliest strata of the Abrahamic God was carrots. Worship me
[3:01:58] Speaker 1: and I'll do good shit for you. But when none
[3:02:00] Speaker 1: of that happens, they have to move closer and closer
[3:02:03] Speaker 1: to sticks, until literally all you have left are sticks.
[3:02:07] Speaker 1: And Ago, thank you for the ten hour superjest says,
[3:02:09] Speaker 1: I think their kicker. The kicker is in Matthew. Mary
[3:02:13] Speaker 1: sees the tomb get opened and gets told by an
[3:02:16] Speaker 1: angel that Jesus has risen. In John, the tomb is
[3:02:19] Speaker 1: already opened at her arrival, and believe someone else stole
[3:02:22] Speaker 1: his body. That's the fucking that's another one. Ago, there's
[3:02:25] Speaker 1: so many contradictions in the tomb narrative, like it's embarrassing.
[3:02:29] Speaker 1: Like I don't know why Christians think that this is
[3:02:32] Speaker 1: a dependable story when God couldn't even get his story
[3:02:35] Speaker 1: straight within his own book. And Aggo says, if in
[3:02:38] Speaker 1: Matthew she saw an angel open the tomb and tell
[3:02:40] Speaker 1: her Jesus has risen, he's him on the way to
[3:02:45] Speaker 1: the disciples, why in John would she go back to
[3:02:48] Speaker 1: think his body has been and think his body has
[3:02:51] Speaker 1: been stolen. This is such a good case because the
[3:02:54] Speaker 1: reality is you can't combine Mary Magdalene's trip with the
[3:02:59] Speaker 1: other women and say there was only one trip of
[3:03:01] Speaker 1: the women. You can't do it because it first of all,
[3:03:04] Speaker 1: it doesn't match John, it doesn't match the ending of Mark,
[3:03:07] Speaker 1: and then it doesn't match how in fact she could
[3:03:11] Speaker 1: see the risen Jesus first in one but in not
[3:03:14] Speaker 1: in the other. Or she did see the risen Jesus
[3:03:17] Speaker 1: first and the other, then what the fuck was she
[3:03:19] Speaker 1: doing at the tomb a second time? There's so many
[3:03:22] Speaker 1: This is bad. Simon thinking it a supertest says I've
[3:03:26] Speaker 1: just prayed for Jesus to turn my tap water into cracking.
[3:03:28] Speaker 1: He turned it into Bocardy, grand stupid piece of shit.
[3:03:33] Speaker 1: Listen if if you got Bacardi, I'd be grateful for
[3:03:36] Speaker 1: that at least, I mean that that for sure, even
[3:03:39] Speaker 1: though it's not kracking. Holes in the g in the
[3:03:42] Speaker 1: ground says I love you guys, well, we love you holes.
[3:03:45] Speaker 1: We appreciate it being here, and I got two more
[3:03:47] Speaker 1: super chats per se, thank you so much for the supertest, says,
[3:03:51] Speaker 1: are you wearing pants? I am indeed wearing pants. This
[3:03:55] Speaker 1: interesting question, but yes, yes, indeed I am and last
[3:03:59] Speaker 1: super chest for now for Athena Temple. Thank you for
[3:04:01] Speaker 1: the twenty pound chat evening all from Northern Ireland. Well,
[3:04:07] Speaker 1: a big w acrossed upon there. Rabbi Singer was saying,
[3:04:11] Speaker 1: an already buried body isn't required spices. That that is true,
[3:04:16] Speaker 1: that's actually really the case, Like if you were in
[3:04:20] Speaker 1: the tomb, they would spice you and then they would
[3:04:22] Speaker 1: leave you in the tomb until your bodies start to
[3:04:25] Speaker 1: decompose and stop smelling a little bit and dry out,
[3:04:28] Speaker 1: and then they would move your bones or what was
[3:04:31] Speaker 1: left you into a longer term place, maybe the tombs
[3:04:35] Speaker 1: of your ancestors. It says, already buried bodies don't require spices,
[3:04:41] Speaker 1: and that in no way would a woman be involved
[3:04:44] Speaker 1: in the prep of a dead man's body for burial.
[3:04:48] Speaker 1: Love the show. Yeah, so basically the women typically were
[3:04:52] Speaker 1: there to spice the bodies. Did they do the grunt
[3:04:56] Speaker 1: work of burying the body? No, No, it certainly wasn't
[3:04:59] Speaker 1: the case. Is man's work back then, But they certainly
[3:05:02] Speaker 1: would have been there to spice and perfume the bodies,
[3:05:04] Speaker 1: which is what we see them doing, which means Jesus
[3:05:07] Speaker 1: certainly wasn't fully buried yet. In fact, we have ancient
[3:05:10] Speaker 1: stories of people literally being placed in tombs believing that
[3:05:16] Speaker 1: they're dead, only to find out later that they're not dead.
[3:05:21] Speaker 1: In fact, let me grab you one. I think I've
[3:05:23] Speaker 1: got one on my list. Was it al Ceistis? Let's see,
[3:05:31] Speaker 1: mm hmmm, I think it is the narrative of Alcestis.
[3:05:38] Speaker 1: It is, okay, there is a narrative of Alcestis, who uh,
[3:05:44] Speaker 1: She's placed in a tomb and it turned out later
[3:05:48] Speaker 1: that she comes up missing. So I mean, like and
[3:05:52] Speaker 1: empty tomb stories are not all that interesting. They're like
[3:05:54] Speaker 1: a time a dozen. I mean that they're that's that's
[3:05:57] Speaker 1: one of the reasons why people were robbing graves, other
[3:06:00] Speaker 1: than to get the you know, to get the loot.
[3:06:02] Speaker 1: But let's bring in our next guest. I'm going to
[3:06:05] Speaker 1: bring in Mystic Flow and our friend ms.
[3:06:14] Speaker 8: Flu.
[3:06:15] Speaker 1: You need Mystic Flow, welcome in. Are you at least eighteen?
[3:06:19] Speaker 1: And do you believe in God?
[3:06:23] Speaker 3: Yes?
[3:06:23] Speaker 14: I do?
[3:06:24] Speaker 1: And I am over eighteen, okay, And which I do
[3:06:29] Speaker 1: bleep in and which I doe in, just the God
[3:06:32] Speaker 1: of all the God of all wait, which god is that?
[3:06:37] Speaker 14: Which is that? All?
[3:06:40] Speaker 1: Gods? All right, So before we get too much further,
[3:06:43] Speaker 1: you've got to get too much. You've got to turn
[3:06:46] Speaker 1: your Bluetooth off and you've got to stop driving.
[3:06:50] Speaker 14: Okay, let me turn off.
[3:06:53] Speaker 3: Oh off, My car is reconnecting.
[3:06:58] Speaker 1: Right right because when I when I talk, it's playing
[3:07:02] Speaker 1: through your speakers and they're right back into your microphone.
[3:07:05] Speaker 1: So you gotta stop driving, turn the bluetooth off, and
[3:07:07] Speaker 1: we can have a conversation. Can I come back in
[3:07:11] Speaker 1: a little bit, mm hmm, yeah, okay, yeah.
[3:07:18] Speaker 3: There's.
[3:07:20] Speaker 1: Remember friends do not drive and live. Don't do it.
[3:07:25] Speaker 1: How are you doing?
[3:07:26] Speaker 4: M's I am you don't existed. They spent the list
[3:07:31] Speaker 4: always looking at parasites.
[3:07:32] Speaker 1: Oh fuck, Well, we're glad you're here. But that sounds diring.
[3:07:40] Speaker 1: All right, So here's what we're gonna do. I need
[3:07:42] Speaker 1: to I need to use the restroom. I'm gonna bring
[3:07:44] Speaker 1: up Mocha Pine. I've talked to Moca probably three times,
[3:07:47] Speaker 1: maybe four times at this point. He's he's actually a
[3:07:50] Speaker 1: really decent guy. That being said, I'm gonna I'm gonna
[3:07:54] Speaker 1: let Jim and Ems talk to Moca. We already know
[3:07:57] Speaker 1: he's at least eighteen, and he's a theist. Like unless
[3:08:01] Speaker 1: he has like a really good argument that I've never
[3:08:03] Speaker 1: heard of, I'd hate to have the same discussion with
[3:08:06] Speaker 1: him that I had the last couple of times.
[3:08:09] Speaker 3: I'd hate to have this same.
[3:08:11] Speaker 1: Well what's going on there? Oh yeah, I think I
[3:08:15] Speaker 1: think it was. While he was connecting, it was kind
[3:08:16] Speaker 1: of goofy, Moca, welcome back before we get started, refresh
[3:08:21] Speaker 1: my memory. What God do you believe in?
[3:08:24] Speaker 3: Oh, Christian? I'm a Lutheran?
[3:08:29] Speaker 1: Yeah right, all right, I'm gonna leave you in the
[3:08:31] Speaker 1: hands of M's and Jim's for your for your argument
[3:08:35] Speaker 1: for the Christian God. And I'm gonna use the restaurant,
[3:08:39] Speaker 1: but I got earbuds in I'll be able to hear
[3:08:40] Speaker 1: the whole thing. So Moca, go ahead and give your
[3:08:43] Speaker 1: give your best argument or whatever argument you came in
[3:08:46] Speaker 1: here with, and we'll respond to it.
[3:08:51] Speaker 3: Well.
[3:08:52] Speaker 20: Shoot, I mean, I heard you talking about revelation before,
[3:08:55] Speaker 20: and and of course like revelations, I'm not construed as
[3:09:00] Speaker 20: a prophecy, but I was hoping to get.
[3:09:02] Speaker 3: Your take on it. But I could talk to Jim
[3:09:04] Speaker 3: and see what he.
[3:09:06] Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I'll be bet I'll be back in
[3:09:09] Speaker 1: a moment. Jim is a Jim read the Bible a bit,
[3:09:12] Speaker 1: but I'm for I got to use the rest of
[3:09:13] Speaker 1: my apologize if while I'm gone, Friends, if you want
[3:09:16] Speaker 1: to talk, the guest box is actually pretty low right now.
[3:09:18] Speaker 1: The guest Q I mean they'll hit the guest request
[3:09:21] Speaker 1: on TikTok or go to tiny dot cc Forslaw's z
[3:09:24] Speaker 1: guest and get yourself in the queue before it gets late,
[3:09:27] Speaker 1: and people wait until it gets late and then like
[3:09:29] Speaker 1: ten or eleven o'clock rolls around, I've got like twenty
[3:09:32] Speaker 1: guests waiting. I'm like, where were you three hours ago?
[3:09:35] Speaker 1: Like I got to end the live stream soon.
[3:09:40] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Revelations I think is like the rest of
[3:09:47] Speaker 3: the Bible problematic, even his prophecy. It's so vague that
[3:09:55] Speaker 3: I think you could point at multiple different events since
[3:09:58] Speaker 3: it was written that could fulfill any one of them.
[3:10:02] Speaker 3: And I think that it's metaphors. You need to really
[3:10:05] Speaker 3: go back and look at the time and find out
[3:10:09] Speaker 3: what metaphors they were using, because they're they're not going
[3:10:12] Speaker 3: to apply to today. I don't think it was written
[3:10:15] Speaker 3: with any idea that we'd still be around in twenty
[3:10:17] Speaker 3: twenty five. Well, I think it's interesting.
[3:10:21] Speaker 20: I actually agree with Justin on the reference of six
[3:10:25] Speaker 20: one six six sixty six being grown.
[3:10:28] Speaker 3: I mean, like, do you think that's the intention of
[3:10:32] Speaker 3: the author? I don't. I don't know the author at all,
[3:10:39] Speaker 3: so I don't know. I can't speak to his intentions.
[3:10:41] Speaker 3: And I don't know how anybody can this late, you know,
[3:10:45] Speaker 3: with so few people actually knowing who he was. Alls
[3:10:48] Speaker 3: we can do is read it and try and figure
[3:10:50] Speaker 3: it out. But you have to read it in the
[3:10:52] Speaker 3: context in which it was written. And that's true of
[3:10:55] Speaker 3: any written work. Just for example, I used to do
[3:10:59] Speaker 3: Maniple and round us on sword play from the manuals,
[3:11:03] Speaker 3: and you have to really go back and mi case,
[3:11:05] Speaker 3: I was studying the Italian masters, and the Italian from
[3:11:10] Speaker 3: the fourteen hundreds is not the Italian of today, and
[3:11:14] Speaker 3: the things they referenced in the fourteen hundreds was not
[3:11:16] Speaker 3: what they would reference today. So and the same is
[3:11:20] Speaker 3: true Revelation, but just in his back So he's much
[3:11:23] Speaker 3: more knowledgeable than I am. I don't know.
[3:11:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, I heard that, I did. Yeah, yeah, well, I
[3:11:31] Speaker 1: appreciate that. I think for me, one of the difficulties
[3:11:34] Speaker 1: with Revelation is it seems like it was written late,
[3:11:39] Speaker 1: and it was written in stages, and so like, I
[3:11:42] Speaker 1: do believe there are some parts that were prior to
[3:11:45] Speaker 1: sixty eight or maybe sixty five AD, and then there
[3:11:49] Speaker 1: are parts that weren't added until like ninety a d.
[3:11:52] Speaker 1: I think it's a compilation and I'm not I didn't
[3:11:55] Speaker 1: invent this view. You can you can check out the
[3:11:58] Speaker 1: work by Joseph Steine. She was a professor at Notre Dame.
[3:12:02] Speaker 1: She wrote in the Anchor Yo Bible commentary series on this.
[3:12:06] Speaker 1: I find her authorship argument to be the most plausible.
[3:12:11] Speaker 1: So like, to me, like, the work of Revelation is
[3:12:14] Speaker 1: just like you know, some early Christians that wanted to
[3:12:18] Speaker 1: believe that the end was right around the corner, and
[3:12:21] Speaker 1: they put these writings together that depicted that, and uh,
[3:12:26] Speaker 1: you know, it seems like it all failed.
[3:12:30] Speaker 3: So oh so like.
[3:12:33] Speaker 20: And and I wonder if that's what your church, your
[3:12:35] Speaker 20: personal church growing up taught like that is the it's
[3:12:38] Speaker 20: sort of the whole book is about the end of
[3:12:40] Speaker 20: the end, tied to the last seven years of tribulation
[3:12:44] Speaker 20: like this like this massive future date or something. Is
[3:12:50] Speaker 20: that how I don't know how to construe it. How
[3:12:52] Speaker 20: do you how do you construe the book because it
[3:12:54] Speaker 20: does kind of go to all the rest of the
[3:12:56] Speaker 20: other prophecies, Like, how do you construe the entire Book
[3:13:00] Speaker 20: of Revelation to be able? I know you're not interested
[3:13:02] Speaker 20: in reading it that way, but maybe you have insight
[3:13:05] Speaker 20: on that.
[3:13:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, the Book of Revelation talks about the end period,
[3:13:11] Speaker 1: the chatological period that we find in like Isaiah sixty five,
[3:13:15] Speaker 1: Like when we would think of Revelation twenty one, where
[3:13:18] Speaker 1: there's no more pain, no more are, no more peace,
[3:13:20] Speaker 1: and Heaven has now come down to earth, like certainly
[3:13:23] Speaker 1: we would probably all agree that this is the end state,
[3:13:26] Speaker 1: that's God's end goal.
[3:13:28] Speaker 20: Right, Actually find myself deconstructing from this book Revelation that
[3:13:35] Speaker 20: is the apocalypse. And I say that because I want
[3:13:38] Speaker 20: to tell your listeners that they shouldn't think of deconstruction
[3:13:42] Speaker 20: as a totally terrible word. I don't think that it
[3:13:45] Speaker 20: can be a totally terrible word.
[3:13:48] Speaker 1: By the way, you don't need it, mocha, you know that, right, Like,
[3:13:51] Speaker 1: so there are a lot of people in early Church
[3:13:53] Speaker 1: that didn't accept revelation, Like you don't have to accept
[3:13:56] Speaker 1: it just because it's in your Bible.
[3:13:58] Speaker 3: Well, and Luther thought it isn't very revealing himself, so.
[3:14:03] Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, even even Luther was like, I don't
[3:14:06] Speaker 1: know about.
[3:14:07] Speaker 20: That, and he I mean because like my my personally,
[3:14:13] Speaker 20: I when I look for a prophecy, you know, I
[3:14:17] Speaker 20: want to see one to one connection with history. I
[3:14:19] Speaker 20: want to see that and so but it seems like
[3:14:23] Speaker 20: my own people don't want to even play that game.
[3:14:26] Speaker 20: And uh, I'm like, well, it just seems like you're stifling.
[3:14:29] Speaker 20: You know, what's the word looking at? What's just stifling?
[3:14:38] Speaker 20: What's the word I'm looking for? Reading I don't know,
[3:14:41] Speaker 20: reading and asking questions about the text.
[3:14:43] Speaker 1: Like growing education, they're stifling, like growing in education, you
[3:14:49] Speaker 1: know they're I mean, I would ask some mocha, like
[3:14:53] Speaker 1: a lot of Christians are really married on this whole
[3:14:56] Speaker 1: idea that the canon is sacred. But why ask him
[3:15:00] Speaker 1: why the canon is sacred? Like who decided that the
[3:15:04] Speaker 1: canon of Christian literature must be this right? And invariably
[3:15:08] Speaker 1: they're just going to tell you, well, like the Holy
[3:15:10] Speaker 1: Spirit did. But that couldn't be the case, because the
[3:15:12] Speaker 1: Holy Spirit told the Orthodox one thing, it told the
[3:15:14] Speaker 1: Ethiopians another thing it told the Catholics, another thing it
[3:15:17] Speaker 1: told the Protestants, another thing like surely the Holy Spirit
[3:15:21] Speaker 1: can't be deciding what books are canonical because we're really
[3:15:25] Speaker 1: no consensus.
[3:15:27] Speaker 3: Well, and you raise an important issue because like solo scripture,
[3:15:31] Speaker 3: which again Luther kicked off, he sparked that whole revolution,
[3:15:37] Speaker 3: you know, for him was kind of like like Jim says,
[3:15:40] Speaker 3: was a contextual device that he that he sort of
[3:15:45] Speaker 3: said because he was in.
[3:15:47] Speaker 20: Anathetical dialogue with the Catholics, but since then has sort
[3:15:52] Speaker 20: of taken on of a life of its own, with
[3:15:54] Speaker 20: a categorical attachment to the nature of like a the
[3:15:59] Speaker 20: attributes of God, especially because people say it's the word
[3:16:04] Speaker 20: of God, and so that phrase is like a categorical
[3:16:07] Speaker 20: construl of these books, and people miss what they're actually
[3:16:12] Speaker 20: used for, and so like when it comes to Revelation,
[3:16:17] Speaker 20: like you know, most people like take like especially in
[3:16:20] Speaker 20: the Protestant West, like maybe you were familiar with, you know,
[3:16:22] Speaker 20: they will just tie this to the end of time,
[3:16:27] Speaker 20: complete end of time, and which I'm not so sure
[3:16:31] Speaker 20: that that's what this book is. But then they'll tie
[3:16:34] Speaker 20: it together with all these other scriptures and cause you
[3:16:36] Speaker 20: a bunch of frustration as well as many of your
[3:16:38] Speaker 20: Protestant listeners.
[3:16:41] Speaker 1: Well, I think the trouble with Revelation is if it's
[3:16:44] Speaker 1: not talking about the end of time, what is it
[3:16:46] Speaker 1: talking about? Because if Revelation twenty one is kind of
[3:16:51] Speaker 1: the goal, when do we expect that to happen?
[3:16:56] Speaker 20: Well, I actually think that this book is unveiling of
[3:17:01] Speaker 20: like an unpacking of the Church the Kingdom of God,
[3:17:06] Speaker 20: which is not like at the very end, like this
[3:17:09] Speaker 20: is just sort of an unfolding from the beginning until
[3:17:13] Speaker 20: like until no point in the future. Actually, I don't
[3:17:16] Speaker 20: think that it's tied to what they think it's tied to.
[3:17:20] Speaker 20: And certainly, if you are married to a certain construct
[3:17:24] Speaker 20: like theological categorical, if you're married to a certain way
[3:17:29] Speaker 20: of thinking, you can't see other things. And I think
[3:17:31] Speaker 20: it's interesting because I actually have ideas about Revelation that
[3:17:34] Speaker 20: nobody's had except people on TikTok are now starting to
[3:17:37] Speaker 20: imitate not my exact ideas, but they're starting to say
[3:17:42] Speaker 20: similar things. I'm kind of shocked. But I don't know
[3:17:48] Speaker 20: if I'm rambling yet. Just stop me if I'm rambling.
[3:17:50] Speaker 1: Well, what I'm trying to figure out in Revelation twenty one.
[3:17:54] Speaker 1: I'm gonna read it. Snippet it real quick, go ahead.
[3:17:58] Speaker 1: It says, then I saw the new Heaven and new Earth,
[3:18:01] Speaker 1: for the first heaven and the firth Earth had passed away,
[3:18:04] Speaker 1: and the sea was no more. And I saw the
[3:18:06] Speaker 1: Holy City and the New Jerusalem coming down out of
[3:18:08] Speaker 1: Heaven from God prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
[3:18:12] Speaker 1: And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, See,
[3:18:15] Speaker 1: the home of God is among mortals, and he will
[3:18:17] Speaker 1: dwell with them, and they will be his people, and
[3:18:20] Speaker 1: God himself will be with them and be their God.
[3:18:22] Speaker 1: He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death
[3:18:24] Speaker 1: will be no more morning, and crying and pain will
[3:18:26] Speaker 1: be no more, for the first things have passed away.
[3:18:28] Speaker 1: So this is like, this seems to be like the
[3:18:32] Speaker 1: s catological period that people are pointing to that they're saying,
[3:18:36] Speaker 1: this is going to happen eventually, right, this is the
[3:18:39] Speaker 1: end goal for God to dwell with humanity and there's
[3:18:44] Speaker 1: we're gonna basically have heaven on earth.
[3:18:46] Speaker 3: Right, So.
[3:18:48] Speaker 1: If you think this is the end or not, they
[3:18:50] Speaker 1: mean the reality is it just didn't happen.
[3:18:56] Speaker 20: Well, do you think that Jerusalem, like, do you think
[3:18:58] Speaker 20: this is the saying that Jerusalem is a cube and
[3:19:00] Speaker 20: it's coming down It's going to come down on the
[3:19:03] Speaker 20: earth like this, Like it's saying I mean, I'm sure
[3:19:05] Speaker 20: you know people like this, or you grew up with
[3:19:08] Speaker 20: people saying this, Maybe you'd tell me if I'm wrong.
[3:19:10] Speaker 21: Yeah.
[3:19:11] Speaker 1: So the problem we kind of have is at this
[3:19:13] Speaker 1: stage in Judaism, they had kind of adopted the idealist
[3:19:18] Speaker 1: worldview where everything here has an equivalent up in heaven.
[3:19:23] Speaker 1: But that's like the perfect copy. That's why we see
[3:19:26] Speaker 1: Jesus saying things like, you know, let it be on
[3:19:30] Speaker 1: earth as it is in heaven, or is I only
[3:19:33] Speaker 1: do what I see my Father in heaven doing? This
[3:19:36] Speaker 1: seems to be born out of the time period, and
[3:19:40] Speaker 1: so the idea that there is a perfect Jerusalem up
[3:19:44] Speaker 1: in heaven that's going to come to earth seems to
[3:19:47] Speaker 1: coincide with like the usual belief of that time period.
[3:19:55] Speaker 3: Do you believe that the.
[3:19:58] Speaker 20: Not that you believe it, but do you agree that
[3:20:01] Speaker 20: the New Testament is saying that the Kingdom of God
[3:20:05] Speaker 20: is in the midst of them as what is that
[3:20:08] Speaker 20: bean to you know?
[3:20:10] Speaker 1: Luke Luke, Yeah, Luke mentioned the most explicit one, where
[3:20:15] Speaker 1: it says that the kingdom is not going to be
[3:20:18] Speaker 1: something where you say, look, there it is, or here
[3:20:21] Speaker 1: it is over here, It'll be basically inside of you.
[3:20:25] Speaker 1: And I think the reason why Luke is saying this
[3:20:27] Speaker 1: is because he's trying, like there's at Luke's when he
[3:20:30] Speaker 1: was writing, there were obviously people that were still waiting
[3:20:33] Speaker 1: for the kingdom to come, as it said in the
[3:20:37] Speaker 1: When the Disciples before the All of It discord, question Jesus,
[3:20:40] Speaker 1: when is your kingdom coming?
[3:20:41] Speaker 3: Right?
[3:20:42] Speaker 1: And it says Peter at one point thought that the
[3:20:45] Speaker 1: kingdom would descend immediately from Heaven.
[3:20:47] Speaker 7: Right.
[3:20:48] Speaker 1: It didn't, and so Luke has to like explain it, right.
[3:20:52] Speaker 1: So Luke's got Jesus in there essentially with an explainer
[3:20:55] Speaker 1: saying no, no, no, the Kingdom of Heaven is not
[3:20:57] Speaker 1: something that you're actually going to see, is just going
[3:20:59] Speaker 1: to be like a spiritual kingdom, right. But I think personally,
[3:21:05] Speaker 1: I think this is a view that only Luke holds too.
[3:21:08] Speaker 1: I don't see this in any of the other Gospels,
[3:21:11] Speaker 1: and I don't think that this coincides very well with
[3:21:16] Speaker 1: Revelation twenty one because Revelation twenty one, we still have
[3:21:20] Speaker 1: the expectation that when the Kingdom comes, there's going to
[3:21:22] Speaker 1: be no over pain, no more suffering, no more sorrow,
[3:21:24] Speaker 1: no more death. And if those things hadn't occurred, then
[3:21:28] Speaker 1: the Kingdom certainly couldn't have come yet.
[3:21:33] Speaker 3: Okay, that's certainly strong premise now, am I?
[3:21:38] Speaker 20: Still My question is like, do you agree that with
[3:21:42] Speaker 20: many people on TikTok and the Church that that when
[3:21:46] Speaker 20: it says the Kingdom of God is within you, it's
[3:21:48] Speaker 20: sort of like saying it's within your person. It's it's
[3:21:53] Speaker 20: not in temples or or houses. Because people say this
[3:21:56] Speaker 20: and they run with it, but really that versus is
[3:21:59] Speaker 20: Jesus talking against the Pharisees, and so he's not saying
[3:22:03] Speaker 20: the Kingdom of God is in them?
[3:22:05] Speaker 3: Am I right in saying that?
[3:22:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, So there's a couple of ways to interpret it.
[3:22:11] Speaker 1: You could literally read like the Kingdom of God is
[3:22:13] Speaker 1: in your midst. That that's one possible reading of it.
[3:22:17] Speaker 1: Which if you do it that way, then it's just
[3:22:20] Speaker 1: like an invisible kingdom, like it's in your midst even
[3:22:24] Speaker 1: though you can't see it. You could definitely translate it
[3:22:27] Speaker 1: as it is like inside of you that's certainly a
[3:22:30] Speaker 1: possible translation, but I don't know. I mean that certainly
[3:22:34] Speaker 1: could be within the context, could be used as a
[3:22:39] Speaker 1: polemic against the Pharisees or against others who thought that
[3:22:43] Speaker 1: the kingdom was going to be physical, and.
[3:22:48] Speaker 20: I don't make that distinction between the spiritual and physical.
[3:22:51] Speaker 20: So sorry to let you down, guys.
[3:22:53] Speaker 7: But.
[3:22:55] Speaker 3: Why should he be using the word kingdom to not
[3:22:58] Speaker 3: refer to a geographic area ruled by a kink that
[3:23:03] Speaker 3: that doesn't make any sense to say that a kingdom
[3:23:08] Speaker 3: is within you when that word doesn't necessarily have any
[3:23:13] Speaker 3: spiritual connotation. Right, So, all of a sudden, taking a
[3:23:16] Speaker 3: word of kingdom that means a geographic area ruled by
[3:23:21] Speaker 3: a king and now we're giving it a whole new
[3:23:24] Speaker 3: meaning just to fit our preconceptions of what it should mean,
[3:23:28] Speaker 3: doesn't make any sense to me. Can you make sense
[3:23:30] Speaker 3: of that? Well?
[3:23:32] Speaker 20: I feel like I agree with what you're saying against
[3:23:35] Speaker 20: against Justine, maybe because I think this goes along with
[3:23:41] Speaker 20: the vision that Daniel had that the acts will be
[3:23:44] Speaker 20: laid at the root of the tree, which which John
[3:23:49] Speaker 20: the Baptist was saying. So he's sort of saying, now
[3:23:53] Speaker 20: is the time and it also goes along with the
[3:23:56] Speaker 20: fig tree. And what I also think goes along with
[3:23:59] Speaker 20: revelation is that this cube possibly in contradistinction to this
[3:24:06] Speaker 20: Cube of.
[3:24:07] Speaker 3: Saturn that we hear a lot about. That's just my take.
[3:24:11] Speaker 3: Nobody else I know says that, but that this kingdom Saturn?
[3:24:17] Speaker 3: What is this cub of Saturn you're talking about? I'm sorry,
[3:24:21] Speaker 3: what is the cube of Saturn you're talking about?
[3:24:25] Speaker 20: It's you can see in a lot of major cities
[3:24:28] Speaker 20: there's like usually sculptures of it, and people say it's
[3:24:31] Speaker 20: the Saturn worship that comes from maybe Freemasonic descent.
[3:24:35] Speaker 3: Or major cities. Are you talking about, Well.
[3:24:39] Speaker 20: I know that there was one in Saint Louis. It
[3:24:42] Speaker 20: doesn't say a cube of Saturn, but there's a preponderance
[3:24:45] Speaker 20: of evidence that they build these sculptures everywhere in honor
[3:24:48] Speaker 20: of this. I shouldn't have said that because it's not
[3:24:52] Speaker 20: going to help the conversation, but I was anyway. My
[3:24:56] Speaker 20: point is that the kingdom came. It's not, as you say,
[3:25:02] Speaker 20: like a geographically bound kingdom. I think that's kind of
[3:25:06] Speaker 20: clear from the beings, right.
[3:25:07] Speaker 3: That's literally the definition of kingdom, and now we're using
[3:25:11] Speaker 3: it in a completely different way. And it seems like
[3:25:15] Speaker 3: to me that you're you have to do this in
[3:25:18] Speaker 3: order to come to your predetermined conclusion. Right, You're you're
[3:25:24] Speaker 3: fitting the facts to fit your conclusion rather than fitting
[3:25:27] Speaker 3: your conclusion to the facts. Wait, I think I agree
[3:25:33] Speaker 3: with you? Let where do I disagree with you?
[3:25:37] Speaker 11: Yeah?
[3:25:37] Speaker 3: I mean I come at all? Because there's no geographic
[3:25:41] Speaker 3: boundary ruled by a king boundary.
[3:25:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess that that's where I well, I mean
[3:25:52] Speaker 1: that's what That's what I'm trying to figure out too, Right, Like,
[3:25:54] Speaker 1: at what point could we accept that a kingdom is
[3:25:58] Speaker 1: no longer a kingdom?
[3:26:00] Speaker 3: Right?
[3:26:00] Speaker 1: Because that's basically what Luke is essentially trying to tell you, Right,
[3:26:03] Speaker 1: He's saying that the kingdom, which is a geographical region
[3:26:06] Speaker 1: reigned over by a king, no longer means that. But
[3:26:11] Speaker 1: why would why would a rational human being just allow
[3:26:14] Speaker 1: Luke to redefine what kingdom means?
[3:26:19] Speaker 20: Or one that didn't want to get smashed by Rome
[3:26:22] Speaker 20: because Rome came up with the idea that Or was
[3:26:24] Speaker 20: using the word gospel like nine BC before Jesus was
[3:26:30] Speaker 20: supposedly born, and so they said the yuon Gellian of
[3:26:33] Speaker 20: Augustus Caesar, who was king of kings. You know this
[3:26:36] Speaker 20: whole There are kingdoms, but then the the four kingdoms
[3:26:40] Speaker 20: or four empires before that, are sort of establishing that
[3:26:43] Speaker 20: the kingdoms are being swallowed up by even greater like
[3:26:46] Speaker 20: universal by implication, you know, universal empires. The idea of
[3:26:52] Speaker 20: taking over the earth. That's the eschatology of Christianity as
[3:26:56] Speaker 20: well as Islam. So I don't know, but most people
[3:27:00] Speaker 20: call it a spiritual kingdom to wease a lot of
[3:27:03] Speaker 20: out of something here or there.
[3:27:05] Speaker 3: So I agree that Christians he's spiritual to weasel out
[3:27:08] Speaker 3: of all kinds of things. Sure, maybe I do too.
[3:27:13] Speaker 3: I don't know. Well, Justin will find out. But definitely
[3:27:18] Speaker 3: it seems like this is the consistent.
[3:27:21] Speaker 20: Way to read the narratives all all the books, is
[3:27:23] Speaker 20: that you have it's the Kingdom begins with Jesus thirty
[3:27:28] Speaker 20: a d crowned king. And if I think Revelation was
[3:27:33] Speaker 20: written sometime in the fifties, because there was a reference
[3:27:36] Speaker 20: to that by one of the what is it Armenian Bibles,
[3:27:41] Speaker 20: I think in the foreword says it was written under Claudius.
[3:27:45] Speaker 20: I could be mistaken by I thought that was so
[3:27:48] Speaker 20: shocking because most churches go with the ninety AD reference
[3:27:52] Speaker 20: by Eusebius, and he's being torn apart online anyway. But
[3:28:00] Speaker 20: but why, justin why do you think that revelation is
[3:28:02] Speaker 20: partly written in before the destruction of the temple and
[3:28:06] Speaker 20: partly after.
[3:28:08] Speaker 3: Never heard anybody say that.
[3:28:09] Speaker 1: Well, one of the reason is because they clearly seem
[3:28:12] Speaker 1: to be referencing time periods. Though for example, if in
[3:28:17] Speaker 1: fact they're writing prior to the death of Nero, and
[3:28:24] Speaker 1: I'm not saying that they did, it's possible they were
[3:28:26] Speaker 1: writing shortly after the death of Nero Revelation thirteen. But
[3:28:30] Speaker 1: if we believe that Revelation thirteen is being written roughly
[3:28:35] Speaker 1: when Nero's been killed, he died in sixty eight, right,
[3:28:38] Speaker 1: So if sixty eight rolls around Nero's dead and the
[3:28:42] Speaker 1: legend of Nero redivivus takes hold, it's possible it could
[3:28:46] Speaker 1: have been written as early as sixty eight, you see
[3:28:49] Speaker 1: what I'm saying. But like that being said, it could
[3:28:52] Speaker 1: have also been written as late as the eighties or
[3:28:57] Speaker 1: even nineties. Because the most famous Nero impostor, the one
[3:29:01] Speaker 1: that convinced the leader of the Parthian army to prepare
[3:29:04] Speaker 1: for war that happened in eighty eight. So Nero Reda
[3:29:08] Speaker 1: Vivis was such a popular legend even you know, two
[3:29:13] Speaker 1: decades later, or you know, a decade and a half
[3:29:16] Speaker 1: after the destruction of the temple, that the people were
[3:29:20] Speaker 1: willing to believe it. So it's hard to know exactly
[3:29:23] Speaker 1: when what was written. But that being said, there's other
[3:29:27] Speaker 1: parts that would lead you to believe that it was
[3:29:31] Speaker 1: written later, like the destruction of the Lao Deshian church
[3:29:36] Speaker 1: says you say that you are rich, but you're actually
[3:29:40] Speaker 1: poor and wretched, and so on and so forth. Like
[3:29:42] Speaker 1: there seems to be some stuff in here being hinted
[3:29:44] Speaker 1: at at an earlier time period because there was an
[3:29:47] Speaker 1: earthquake and Rome, if I remember, I think it's the
[3:29:51] Speaker 1: Layo decision, Lao laod. Let me see. Anyways, there's a
[3:29:58] Speaker 1: church right that says we don't need your money, right,
[3:30:04] Speaker 1: or we have money, we have wealth. And this is
[3:30:07] Speaker 1: a call back to when there was an earthquake and
[3:30:10] Speaker 1: their city was destroyed and the Romans offered to rebuild
[3:30:15] Speaker 1: their city for them, and they actually turned down the
[3:30:17] Speaker 1: Roman money. It said no, no, we're wealthy. We got
[3:30:20] Speaker 1: it right. So what that means then is that, yeah,
[3:30:26] Speaker 1: I think it's late to see it. So what that
[3:30:28] Speaker 1: means then is that that text had to have been
[3:30:31] Speaker 1: written long enough after that where perhaps they were already
[3:30:36] Speaker 1: recovered and the the whatever destruction that was done was
[3:30:42] Speaker 1: already recovered. But we knew from history that it took
[3:30:44] Speaker 1: a while to recover from that earthquake. It was a
[3:30:46] Speaker 1: wild It wasn't like an overnight thing, right, So if
[3:30:49] Speaker 1: we know when the earthquake was and we give them
[3:30:51] Speaker 1: a decade, maybe two decades to fully recover, you can
[3:30:54] Speaker 1: kind of start guessing about when it was written. That
[3:30:58] Speaker 1: being said, like just from internal clues, it's difficult to
[3:31:02] Speaker 1: date eat each section of the book, you know.
[3:31:08] Speaker 20: Well, and just to preface, I'm our people don't. Our
[3:31:13] Speaker 20: theology doesn't center around this book like a lot of
[3:31:16] Speaker 20: some groups, so it's fins to be a safe topic.
[3:31:20] Speaker 20: But but that said, I see it feels like what
[3:31:24] Speaker 20: you're doing is is you're saying it must not have
[3:31:28] Speaker 20: been written until after these events, because that's not possible.
[3:31:33] Speaker 1: No, I didn't say that, But what I'm saying is
[3:31:38] Speaker 1: there are statements in the book that would lead one
[3:31:41] Speaker 1: to believe that there are like date ranges. Right, So
[3:31:45] Speaker 1: when it says that about the lacy in church, that
[3:31:48] Speaker 1: you say that you're rich and wealthy, but I say
[3:31:51] Speaker 1: that you know you're poor and bag or lead and whatever.
[3:31:54] Speaker 1: That statement only makes sense in light of what we
[3:31:58] Speaker 1: know happened to their region.
[3:32:00] Speaker 7: Right.
[3:32:01] Speaker 1: They were famously known as turning down the wealth of
[3:32:04] Speaker 1: Rome to rebuild their city after the earthquake, right, So
[3:32:08] Speaker 1: I mean that just means that the story really only
[3:32:10] Speaker 1: makes sense if it's post earthquake time period. It's not
[3:32:14] Speaker 1: a prophecy, it's not a miracle story. It's just a
[3:32:17] Speaker 1: statement about what they were like.
[3:32:19] Speaker 3: You know.
[3:32:24] Speaker 20: Well, it does say that if they don't listen to Jesus,
[3:32:27] Speaker 20: that people take away their lamp or their candle or
[3:32:31] Speaker 20: whatever you want to call it. So it's sort of
[3:32:34] Speaker 20: like a warning. I mean, the narrative seems to ply
[3:32:37] Speaker 20: that it's before these events. And then of course we
[3:32:40] Speaker 20: know that Latasia was destroyed, and I think you're right,
[3:32:44] Speaker 20: there's Ladasa the head the wealth that they didn't need
[3:32:47] Speaker 20: Rome to back them up. But I mean, like my
[3:32:51] Speaker 20: I wonder if it was written even before fifty four AD,
[3:32:54] Speaker 20: because it's warning them that there's this span coming six
[3:32:58] Speaker 20: sixty six six Oneths with the very reference, and of
[3:33:02] Speaker 20: course he was he started raining in fifty four Nero,
[3:33:06] Speaker 20: I think it was October thirteenth, actually that he started raining.
[3:33:10] Speaker 20: That's easy on Wikipedia, so don't think I'm making that up.
[3:33:15] Speaker 20: But it really doesn't matter exactly when it was written.
[3:33:19] Speaker 20: What matters is the long term prophecies to us because
[3:33:24] Speaker 20: it gives the millennial millennial reign period that people often
[3:33:29] Speaker 20: refer to as Jesus reigning on the earth, like visibly
[3:33:33] Speaker 20: like ruling, not raining, but ruling. And what I find interesting,
[3:33:39] Speaker 20: I'm just gonna put this on the table. You can
[3:33:41] Speaker 20: mock me if you want, and I'm okay with that.
[3:33:44] Speaker 20: But references Nero six sixty six thousand year reference the
[3:33:49] Speaker 20: church split in ten fifty four. This is a thousand
[3:33:52] Speaker 20: years a basic politic They enjoyed a thousand years of
[3:33:56] Speaker 20: political unity for what it's worth, you know, and then
[3:34:00] Speaker 20: the change in the creed was sort of like maybe
[3:34:04] Speaker 20: it was the straw that broke the camel's back, but
[3:34:09] Speaker 20: you know that obviously cannot be said to be written
[3:34:13] Speaker 20: after the fact.
[3:34:14] Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, But I mean with the thousand year reign,
[3:34:19] Speaker 1: I think the problem you have is like it comes
[3:34:21] Speaker 1: to an end in a pretty drastic fashion in Revelation twenty,
[3:34:24] Speaker 1: because when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be
[3:34:27] Speaker 1: released from his prison and he will come out to
[3:34:30] Speaker 1: deceive the nations and gather four corners of the earth,
[3:34:33] Speaker 1: Gog and Magog, in order to gather them for battle.
[3:34:36] Speaker 1: They are as numerous as the sands of the sea.
[3:34:38] Speaker 1: They marched up over the breath of the earth and
[3:34:40] Speaker 1: surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city.
[3:34:43] Speaker 1: The beloved city seems to be a referenced to probably Jerusalem.
[3:34:46] Speaker 1: Here and fire came down from heaven and consumed them,
[3:34:49] Speaker 1: and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into
[3:34:52] Speaker 1: the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and
[3:34:55] Speaker 1: his false prophet were, and they will be tormented day
[3:34:57] Speaker 1: and night forever. So when when this passage happens, This
[3:35:03] Speaker 1: seems to be at the s catallogical end time, at
[3:35:06] Speaker 1: the end of the one thousand years. So if the
[3:35:08] Speaker 1: one thousand years ended in the early pre medieval period,
[3:35:12] Speaker 1: that I guess. I don't see how the rest of
[3:35:15] Speaker 1: this chapter came true, because it follows by a judgment, right,
[3:35:19] Speaker 1: So Satan's thrown into prison with the others, and then
[3:35:22] Speaker 1: it says and I see a great white thrown and
[3:35:24] Speaker 1: one who sat on it, and then you know, we
[3:35:25] Speaker 1: get the judgment right, So I'm expecting that at the
[3:35:28] Speaker 1: end of the one thousand years there be universal judgment.
[3:35:35] Speaker 20: Well, like I said, I'm not totally solid on this book.
[3:35:43] Speaker 20: I'm kind of using this as examples to explore what
[3:35:46] Speaker 20: you considered to be prophecy or evidence thereof. If you
[3:35:51] Speaker 20: think that prophecy only entails these rectlinear you know, one
[3:35:55] Speaker 20: to one connections with history, or does they have other
[3:35:59] Speaker 20: forms or.
[3:36:05] Speaker 3: Yeah, so the history of that thousand years involves the
[3:36:10] Speaker 3: fall of Rome and Rome becomes two. And I think
[3:36:13] Speaker 3: you said there's supposed to be a thousand years of peace?
[3:36:17] Speaker 3: Is that the Did I hear that correctly? Or relative peace?
[3:36:24] Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think for the one thousand years,
[3:36:28] Speaker 1: Jesus is supposed to be reigning, but I'm not sure
[3:36:30] Speaker 1: if that is like complete peace, although I think Moco
[3:36:34] Speaker 1: was making the point that there was at least peace
[3:36:37] Speaker 1: within the Roman Empire. But when did the when the
[3:36:40] Speaker 1: umpire fell, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
[3:36:45] Speaker 1: You know, when did that happen?
[3:36:48] Speaker 20: Wait, are you thinking that this is referring of the
[3:36:50] Speaker 20: Roman Empire? Because the Kingdom of God is different from
[3:36:54] Speaker 20: the governments of this world.
[3:36:58] Speaker 1: So then when was there a kingdom of peace? I
[3:37:11] Speaker 1: think we lost smoke up for a second.
[3:37:15] Speaker 3: Is the fall of Rom is what historians most historian
[3:37:19] Speaker 3: considered to be the fall of Wrom. So yeah, I mean,
[3:37:23] Speaker 3: and again, if you're going to go to this spiritual
[3:37:25] Speaker 3: thing rather than the traditional kingdom, then I don't know.
[3:37:29] Speaker 3: I mean, how do you define spiritual and how do
[3:37:31] Speaker 3: you know that actually existed in any way, shape or
[3:37:34] Speaker 3: form during you know, from during that thousand years. I
[3:37:42] Speaker 3: just don't see how you get to prove that actually happened.
[3:37:50] Speaker 20: Well, I mean the idea of the kingdom, if you
[3:37:56] Speaker 20: define it spiritually only, then it is a problem. But
[3:38:00] Speaker 20: I mean, we have the presence of all these bishops,
[3:38:02] Speaker 20: all these churches all over the empire, and they're spreading everywhere,
[3:38:06] Speaker 20: and it is pretty much looking like the physical kingdom
[3:38:10] Speaker 20: on the earth.
[3:38:12] Speaker 3: But it's not like the other governments of this world.
[3:38:14] Speaker 3: But it can't be a kingdom because there's no there's
[3:38:17] Speaker 3: not a single king You could say there are multiple kingdoms,
[3:38:22] Speaker 3: but you can't say there's one kingdom, especially after the
[3:38:26] Speaker 3: fall of Rome. What do you think about the king
[3:38:31] Speaker 3: of king's concept the empire where I mean, the Holy
[3:38:36] Speaker 3: Roman Empire.
[3:38:36] Speaker 1: Gets Oh where, Jim, go, Jim, I think you just
[3:38:44] Speaker 1: heated yourself.
[3:38:49] Speaker 3: Back to see when the bill An Empire got started.
[3:38:52] Speaker 3: But I don't think the Holy Roman Empire got started
[3:38:54] Speaker 3: during that first thousand years. So you have multiple kingdoms.
[3:39:00] Speaker 3: Rome falls into multiple city states. Byzantium, the Byzantine Empire
[3:39:07] Speaker 3: gets started during that time. Germany falls into city states.
[3:39:12] Speaker 3: I mean, once the fall of Rome happens, everything that
[3:39:15] Speaker 3: Rome built fell and there was no longer. I mean
[3:39:18] Speaker 3: that's where we get the word duke from was from
[3:39:20] Speaker 3: from Rome. So you know England probably devolved into multiple
[3:39:26] Speaker 3: kingdoms as well. So where is this single kingdom you're
[3:39:29] Speaker 3: talking about, or where is this emperor, you know, this
[3:39:32] Speaker 3: king of kings anywhere on the planet at this point.
[3:39:39] Speaker 20: So you're right, there are kingdoms everywhere and they have
[3:39:43] Speaker 20: a king and you're aware of I'm assuming you're aware
[3:39:47] Speaker 20: that you know, Rome divided and conquered these kings and
[3:39:51] Speaker 20: was able to overcome them all. So it's like Rome
[3:39:54] Speaker 20: over all the local kings, right, and then fell and
[3:39:56] Speaker 20: then fell halfway through that thousand year period.
[3:39:59] Speaker 3: It died, it was, I mean, and that that end
[3:40:03] Speaker 3: actually is antecedent of the split to the east and
[3:40:08] Speaker 3: western Rome and the Byzantine Empire. So it's still not
[3:40:12] Speaker 3: one kingdom I mean Rome shortly after, you know, in
[3:40:16] Speaker 3: the first couple of centuries there starts to tear itself apart.
[3:40:21] Speaker 3: So where again, is this kingdom for a thousand years
[3:40:24] Speaker 3: or this king of king for a thousand years? Because
[3:40:26] Speaker 3: that's what you're talking about, is a thousand years of history.
[3:40:30] Speaker 3: Yeah are you Are you looking for a kingdom like
[3:40:33] Speaker 3: Rome or a kingdom like the Church? What I'm looking Well,
[3:40:37] Speaker 3: I'm looking for the traditional usage of the word kingdom, right,
[3:40:42] Speaker 3: which is a geographic boundary ruled by a king. Well, yeah,
[3:40:49] Speaker 3: the men with little hats are looking for that too.
[3:40:51] Speaker 3: But is that is that what we expect in the
[3:40:55] Speaker 3: That's not the Christian view at the time, is it.
[3:41:01] Speaker 3: I have no idea what the Christian of you at
[3:41:03] Speaker 3: the times, but this is what I would I mean,
[3:41:07] Speaker 3: the Bible is fairly consistent using kingdom to refer to
[3:41:12] Speaker 3: a geographic boundary. Now, all of a sudden, we're adding
[3:41:15] Speaker 3: new meaning to the word, like.
[3:41:20] Speaker 20: Can you give me an example, because I honestly do
[3:41:22] Speaker 20: believe the Bible has a shift in style from the
[3:41:26] Speaker 20: beginning to the end.
[3:41:27] Speaker 3: And I'm using the word Bible loosely, but yeah, I mean,
[3:41:31] Speaker 3: throughout the entire history of the Bible, we know there's
[3:41:33] Speaker 3: a kingdom of Bethlehem turned into a kingdom. I mean,
[3:41:39] Speaker 3: we've got multiple kingdoms. Israel was a kingdom, and so
[3:41:44] Speaker 3: all throughout this you know, Rome king of kings. There's
[3:41:49] Speaker 3: a bunch of kingdoms inside that I mean, and then
[3:41:53] Speaker 3: all of a sudden, just to fit your preconceived notions
[3:41:56] Speaker 3: of what has to happen, because you have to change
[3:42:00] Speaker 3: and make words not mean mean things anymore, just to
[3:42:04] Speaker 3: fit your preconceived notion of this spiritual kingdom that that
[3:42:08] Speaker 3: you claim exists. Well, why why are why do we
[3:42:14] Speaker 3: have to force? Well?
[3:42:16] Speaker 20: I want to back up here, so because because this
[3:42:20] Speaker 20: all goes to prophecy, and how we the different kinds
[3:42:25] Speaker 20: of prophecies, and if referring to rectilinear prophecies about the kingdom,
[3:42:30] Speaker 20: we can know all the moody back to Daniel, where
[3:42:33] Speaker 20: Babylon was the first Daniels.
[3:42:37] Speaker 3: Daniels pretty much MacCabe and propaganda. So I don't know
[3:42:41] Speaker 3: why we want to go back to to Daniel. Now,
[3:42:45] Speaker 3: why do you assume that, because that's what both biblical
[3:42:50] Speaker 3: scholars that I'm aware of uh are making arguments for
[3:42:56] Speaker 3: that that Daniel is is at best pseudographia because of
[3:43:01] Speaker 3: just how much Daniel gets wrong just from the job,
[3:43:06] Speaker 3: and he gets things wrong that he's supposed to have
[3:43:08] Speaker 3: lived through.
[3:43:11] Speaker 20: My understanding is that Porphrey, who was a Jewish non believer,
[3:43:16] Speaker 20: was arguing against Daniel because he said that it was
[3:43:18] Speaker 20: too exact and it had to be history written after
[3:43:21] Speaker 20: the fact, which is the lead wrong.
[3:43:25] Speaker 1: So we lost jim agin. So there are good reasons
[3:43:32] Speaker 1: to believe that Daniel was written in the second century,
[3:43:35] Speaker 1: other than he knows a lot about the second century. So,
[3:43:40] Speaker 1: for example, Porfrey's argument isn't the greatest, But I'll give
[3:43:44] Speaker 1: you a version of his argument that scholars give, which
[3:43:48] Speaker 1: is it's not that he knew so much about the
[3:43:51] Speaker 1: second century. To be fair, he gets a lot of
[3:43:54] Speaker 1: shit right about the second century. The problem is he
[3:43:57] Speaker 1: gets everything wrong about the supposed time period Daniel was
[3:44:00] Speaker 1: supposed to be in that time period, he totally screws up,
[3:44:04] Speaker 1: and so because of that we're left to conclude that
[3:44:07] Speaker 1: he couldn't have lived in that time period. Now, what
[3:44:11] Speaker 1: we do know is also like we've got parts of Daniel,
[3:44:15] Speaker 1: a huge portions of Daniel that were written what seems
[3:44:18] Speaker 1: to be primarily in the second century, because it's using
[3:44:22] Speaker 1: a form of Hebrew that didn't exist until the second century.
[3:44:26] Speaker 1: So like Missione, Hebrew wasn't really a thing until the
[3:44:30] Speaker 1: second century, and when they started to get some nationalistic
[3:44:33] Speaker 1: pride and use the reinstitution of Hebrew as a symbol
[3:44:39] Speaker 1: of national pride, that form of Hebrew that they reinstituted
[3:44:42] Speaker 1: published nee Hebrew or has many in Hebrew, and a
[3:44:48] Speaker 1: lot of Daniel is written in that form of Hebrew.
[3:44:50] Speaker 1: If it was written during the supposed, you know, fifth
[3:44:54] Speaker 1: or sixth century when Daniel would have lived, we would
[3:44:57] Speaker 1: expect it to all been written in like early Aramaic,
[3:45:01] Speaker 1: and it's really not like even the Aramic portions appear
[3:45:05] Speaker 1: to be like super late stage Aramaic. And we have
[3:45:08] Speaker 1: additions to Daniel. You probably know about them. In Greek
[3:45:12] Speaker 1: people were adding to the Book of Daniel for you know,
[3:45:15] Speaker 1: probably two or three hundred years over the course of time,
[3:45:18] Speaker 1: and the vast majority of it is the part that
[3:45:21] Speaker 1: most of us are interested in, appears to have been
[3:45:24] Speaker 1: written in a form of Hebrew that didn't really exist
[3:45:27] Speaker 1: until the second century, which is why the author of
[3:45:29] Speaker 1: that section knows a lot of shit about the second century,
[3:45:33] Speaker 1: but he doesn't get anything right about what happened in
[3:45:36] Speaker 1: the prior centuries.
[3:45:40] Speaker 3: Like on to decide which way I want to go
[3:45:44] Speaker 3: in this choose your own adventure game.
[3:45:46] Speaker 1: I know it's a tough one. For example, like it
[3:45:50] Speaker 1: has Belshazzar on multiple occasions as the son of Nebukanezer,
[3:45:56] Speaker 1: but they weren't even related, not remotely. The father of
[3:46:00] Speaker 1: Belshazzar was Nabinitas, and he was akin to being an
[3:46:04] Speaker 1: usurper of the throne. He didn't have any kingly succession.
[3:46:10] Speaker 20: Why do you say that Belshazzar was Nebkinzer's son. I
[3:46:14] Speaker 20: don't think it says that.
[3:46:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, it does, I think five different times actually in Daniel,
[3:46:19] Speaker 1: Oh my, yeah, let me grab you. Yeah, don't worries,
[3:46:25] Speaker 1: it's a it's not a problem, but yeah, let me
[3:46:28] Speaker 1: grab the verses for you.
[3:46:32] Speaker 3: Second, and to me, never existed as far as anyone
[3:46:36] Speaker 3: can tell. Well, certainly, we've been trying to figure out
[3:46:40] Speaker 3: the reference of all these names for a long time.
[3:46:43] Speaker 1: So the first instance is in Daniel five twenty two,
[3:46:51] Speaker 1: and then that's where he's referred to as the Sun.
[3:46:54] Speaker 1: And then there's I think four instances where he's talking
[3:46:59] Speaker 1: to Belshazzar or about Belshazzar and he references your father, Nebukanezzer,
[3:47:05] Speaker 1: and that's going to be in Daniel five verse two,
[3:47:09] Speaker 1: Daniel five eleven, another one two of them in Daniel
[3:47:13] Speaker 1: five eleven, and then another one in Daniel five thirteen.
[3:47:16] Speaker 1: So in Daniel five thirteen and eighteen as well, we
[3:47:20] Speaker 1: have at least four or five different occasions where Nebukinezer
[3:47:24] Speaker 1: is named the father of belshazz Arm.
[3:47:28] Speaker 5: Oh.
[3:47:29] Speaker 1: Okay, but he certainly wasn't We do have we have
[3:47:32] Speaker 1: data quite a bit of for inform ancient world demonstrating
[3:47:35] Speaker 1: that Belshazzar was the son of Nabonitis and that there
[3:47:40] Speaker 1: was actually four different kings between Nebukanezer and Nabonitis.
[3:47:47] Speaker 3: Okay, I think actually are my mentors work agrees. Let's
[3:47:55] Speaker 3: see here.
[3:47:56] Speaker 20: I don't want to go too much down there because
[3:47:58] Speaker 20: I didn't prepare on Daniel five and Belshazzar. But I'm
[3:48:04] Speaker 20: more interested in I'm more interested in your understanding of
[3:48:10] Speaker 20: this as a like, do you see Daniel true or false?
[3:48:15] Speaker 20: True or false? As a rectlinear style prophecy like.
[3:48:21] Speaker 3: One to one.
[3:48:23] Speaker 20: I'm not asking to believe it, but do you think
[3:48:25] Speaker 20: it presents itself as you should look for these things
[3:48:28] Speaker 20: in history. They're not spiritual, only the physical.
[3:48:34] Speaker 1: Yeah, this is how apocalyptic literature works. In apocalyptic literature,
[3:48:40] Speaker 1: there's chaos happening. God's people are suffering, and we have
[3:48:44] Speaker 1: these prophecies of hey, just hold on a little bit,
[3:48:47] Speaker 1: a little bit longer. God's promises are going to come true,
[3:48:50] Speaker 1: and they're going to be way better than you even
[3:48:52] Speaker 1: thought they were going to be right. And this is
[3:48:54] Speaker 1: just how all of the Jewish apocalyptical literature was.
[3:48:59] Speaker 3: But I mean, it's a it presents itself as sort
[3:49:01] Speaker 3: of like a falsifiable system.
[3:49:03] Speaker 1: Right, Yes, you nail that. It is a falsifiable system
[3:49:08] Speaker 1: because they're giving prophetic predictions and when they don't come true,
[3:49:13] Speaker 1: you have one of two options. You can say that
[3:49:15] Speaker 1: the prophecies failed, or you can go, well, it was spiritual.
[3:49:19] Speaker 1: It didn't mean what it actually meant. It means something
[3:49:21] Speaker 1: completely different. But there are two, there's more than two.
[3:49:25] Speaker 1: There's two books on this topic that I do like
[3:49:28] Speaker 1: the first by James Vandercam, an amazing scholar from Notre Dame,
[3:49:33] Speaker 1: called Enoch and The Growth of an Apocalyptic Tradition and
[3:49:36] Speaker 1: a longer one, The Method and Message of Jewish Apocalyptic.
[3:49:42] Speaker 1: It is a pretty good two really good resources on
[3:49:44] Speaker 1: like how apocalyptical prophecy functioned within the Jewish community.
[3:49:51] Speaker 20: I only have one more question, is that, Okay, do
[3:49:55] Speaker 20: you think that the New Testament writers are playing that
[3:49:59] Speaker 20: game as they go through the prophecies that you reference
[3:50:04] Speaker 20: with all of your guests.
[3:50:06] Speaker 1: I think the New Testament authors are doing a game
[3:50:10] Speaker 1: of the same thing we find them the Dead Sea Scrolls,
[3:50:12] Speaker 1: which is words don't mean words, right. These prophecies don't
[3:50:16] Speaker 1: fail as long as we change the meaning of all
[3:50:19] Speaker 1: the words. And we find this in like the Habitcook
[3:50:21] Speaker 1: pressure and some of the other pressure room from the
[3:50:23] Speaker 1: Dead Sea Scrolls where they're taking like, hey, guys, well
[3:50:26] Speaker 1: they're taking these Old Testament profits and they're saying, well,
[3:50:29] Speaker 1: I mean now the Babylonians are actually the Katam and
[3:50:33] Speaker 1: this city is actually now this city. They're just going
[3:50:36] Speaker 1: into it and they're saying, Okay, these words now mean
[3:50:38] Speaker 1: something new, because rather than saying that the prophecies failed,
[3:50:42] Speaker 1: we just have to say, okay, now they need decoded.
[3:50:45] Speaker 1: These words don't really mean what they mean. They're secret
[3:50:47] Speaker 1: code words for such and such, right, and so like
[3:50:50] Speaker 1: when prophecies fail, like you don't have too many choices.
[3:50:53] Speaker 1: You could admit that they failed, or you can just
[3:50:56] Speaker 1: reword them and say that words have no meaning.
[3:51:00] Speaker 3: That's really interesting what this is. This is kind of
[3:51:02] Speaker 3: new to me.
[3:51:03] Speaker 20: But I'm really happy to hear this, and I think
[3:51:05] Speaker 20: those of what Jim was saying about reading in the
[3:51:07] Speaker 20: context of the time. You're saying that some of the
[3:51:11] Speaker 20: scrolls are found in the Dead Sea collection. We're playing
[3:51:16] Speaker 20: this other sort of game, like a Jewish missnake. What
[3:51:22] Speaker 20: do you want to call it, like a dialectic or
[3:51:23] Speaker 20: a dialogue. I'm thrilled to hear you say this.
[3:51:26] Speaker 1: This is amazing, Like, yeah, so in the Dead Sea Scrolls,
[3:51:31] Speaker 1: we've got a collection of pechur eem These are like
[3:51:35] Speaker 1: reinterpretations of the prophecies, and they're pretty brazen with what
[3:51:40] Speaker 1: they they're.
[3:51:41] Speaker 11: Going to do.
[3:51:41] Speaker 3: With them.
[3:51:41] Speaker 1: So, for example, in the Habit Cook pressure, we've got
[3:51:45] Speaker 1: a bunch of lines where they're saying, well, this means
[3:51:49] Speaker 1: this now right. So for example, in Habit Cook one six,
[3:51:53] Speaker 1: he says, for I am now about to raise up
[3:51:55] Speaker 1: the Kaldeans, the brutal, reckless people. Interesting enough, we know
[3:51:59] Speaker 1: what the Kaldeans are. But in the Peasurim it says
[3:52:02] Speaker 1: this refers to the Katim, who are swift and mighty
[3:52:05] Speaker 1: in war, annihilating many people, so on and so forth.
[3:52:08] Speaker 1: And we've got a bunch of the pressure that reads
[3:52:11] Speaker 1: just like this. In fact, they read like some of
[3:52:16] Speaker 1: the some of the stuff that God's going to do
[3:52:19] Speaker 1: to his enemies, he reads is actually God's going to
[3:52:21] Speaker 1: do it against the Jewish, some of the Jewish leaders
[3:52:24] Speaker 1: in Jerusalem, because they hated the leaders in Jerusalem. And so,
[3:52:29] Speaker 1: you know, it's just it's just one of those things
[3:52:32] Speaker 1: where like people, the Jewish people were already doing it.
[3:52:35] Speaker 1: By the time the New Testament came along, a lot
[3:52:38] Speaker 1: of them were already going into these prophecies and repurposing them.
[3:52:44] Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, you just made my day. That is awesome.
[3:52:47] Speaker 20: I mean, I hope all of your hearers heard that
[3:52:49] Speaker 20: that's because a lot of times in the in the
[3:52:52] Speaker 20: New Testament. Maybe you agree with this, maybe you don't.
[3:52:55] Speaker 20: One thing I got from my mentors was that oftentimes
[3:52:58] Speaker 20: they're suppressed by area opposite in a conversation like these epistles,
[3:53:05] Speaker 20: even even like the writings of John. They're writing either
[3:53:09] Speaker 20: against something or or touching on a topic, and we
[3:53:12] Speaker 20: don't have the other person or group talking to, say
[3:53:15] Speaker 20: Paul or John. It's sort of like it's it's either
[3:53:19] Speaker 20: there or we don't have it. You know, we can't
[3:53:20] Speaker 20: hear the back and forth conversation. And so with that,
[3:53:26] Speaker 20: with that gone, that eliminated from the conversation, we're just
[3:53:29] Speaker 20: left with the Bible. We don't It becomes more and
[3:53:34] Speaker 20: more interpretable however we want to, but people don't even understand.
[3:53:38] Speaker 21: That it is.
[3:53:39] Speaker 20: It could be a sort of a big dialogue rather
[3:53:41] Speaker 20: than just like an Islamic book where it just comes
[3:53:43] Speaker 20: down from Heaven and this is it, this is the
[3:53:46] Speaker 20: word of God, and.
[3:53:48] Speaker 3: You see, you know that distinction where it's just.
[3:53:50] Speaker 2: Like the right.
[3:53:54] Speaker 1: But my point is like if you can just go
[3:53:56] Speaker 1: into a prophecy and rework it by changing them of
[3:54:00] Speaker 1: the words, then like it could mean anything you wanted
[3:54:02] Speaker 1: to mean.
[3:54:05] Speaker 20: But what you agree then that that's what the New
[3:54:08] Speaker 20: Testament writers are. That's the game they are playing, right.
[3:54:11] Speaker 1: That's one hundred the game they're playing. Yes, that's why
[3:54:14] Speaker 1: when they quote the Old Testament, they're they're typically doing
[3:54:18] Speaker 1: some sort of typological or words don't mean words type
[3:54:21] Speaker 1: of fulfillment. Right, because the Jewish people, especially the Kumran sect,
[3:54:27] Speaker 1: they were already doing that. They thought that they had
[3:54:29] Speaker 1: been given secret knowledge and they're going to decode these
[3:54:33] Speaker 1: Hebrew scriptures.
[3:54:34] Speaker 2: Right.
[3:54:35] Speaker 1: So this is where like stacred gnosis comes into play,
[3:54:39] Speaker 1: Like we those who are really in the know, those
[3:54:42] Speaker 1: who are really connected to God, they can go into
[3:54:45] Speaker 1: these Jewish scriptures and tell you this secret meaning, the
[3:54:49] Speaker 1: true meaning of them. Right. Let the plain meaning of
[3:54:52] Speaker 1: the text is irrelevant. We need to give you the
[3:54:54] Speaker 1: secret meanings of the text. But the reality is I
[3:54:58] Speaker 1: think that that's just I mean, philly, Well, but that
[3:55:03] Speaker 1: is kind of what like.
[3:55:04] Speaker 20: Say, some of like the Talmud. The Talmud is a
[3:55:08] Speaker 20: commentary you know, on the Old Testament, and not judging it,
[3:55:13] Speaker 20: I'm just saying what it is. And so if we
[3:55:16] Speaker 20: look at the New Testament, it's doing a lot of
[3:55:18] Speaker 20: what you just said, John, responding to the nosis the
[3:55:22] Speaker 20: secret history that some are asserting. That's why he says
[3:55:27] Speaker 20: logos because it's not part of this lagos ethos pathos
[3:55:31] Speaker 20: super narrative, the comic book narrative that someone may be
[3:55:34] Speaker 20: or I'm sorry, I shouldn't be so, uh, but like
[3:55:38] Speaker 20: you said, the Gnostics have a reinterpretation of the words
[3:55:43] Speaker 20: like you're saying, and so he's responding and saying, these
[3:55:46] Speaker 20: are the words. And then when they read prophecies, obviously
[3:55:50] Speaker 20: like Isaiah seven doesn't mean in the future this is
[3:55:56] Speaker 20: going to happen it obviously, you know, doesn't mean that.
[3:56:00] Speaker 20: So it's sort of tortuous when people come up on
[3:56:01] Speaker 20: your show and assert the virgin birth out of Isaiah seven.
[3:56:06] Speaker 7: And.
[3:56:07] Speaker 1: Well they kind of have to because Matthew did.
[3:56:11] Speaker 3: Yeah, but Matthew's playing a different game, right.
[3:56:14] Speaker 1: Yeah, but you have to play whatever game Matthew is playing.
[3:56:20] Speaker 3: And that what is the game that he's playing.
[3:56:24] Speaker 1: The game that he's playing is words don't mean words, right,
[3:56:28] Speaker 1: context is no longer relevant. I'm going to tell you
[3:56:30] Speaker 1: the secret meaning of the passage.
[3:56:36] Speaker 3: I do agree with that.
[3:56:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, So either you agree with Matthew or you don't, well,
[3:56:43] Speaker 1: I agree.
[3:56:44] Speaker 20: With Jesus when he says, and I'll just offer this,
[3:56:46] Speaker 20: but he says, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a
[3:56:48] Speaker 20: scribe who finds new things out of old treasure, something
[3:56:51] Speaker 20: that effect. And so what they are doing at least
[3:56:55] Speaker 20: agree with that. I'm not telling you to agree with them.
[3:56:57] Speaker 20: I'm just saying what the New Testament writers are doing
[3:57:00] Speaker 20: is looking for this preponderance of evidence in all the
[3:57:04] Speaker 20: stories of the Old Testament and saying, here's this big picture.
[3:57:08] Speaker 20: But they're not looking And I'm kind of disappointed because
[3:57:11] Speaker 20: I would have thought they would have gone back to linear.
[3:57:13] Speaker 20: But they are doing a lot of this typeological you
[3:57:17] Speaker 20: know those pictures that like you see that are all
[3:57:19] Speaker 20: the pictures together and they form this face or the
[3:57:23] Speaker 20: or some new picture where you just stand back. Computers
[3:57:27] Speaker 20: are often putting these together. Well, that isn't that what
[3:57:30] Speaker 20: they're doing. They're they're looking at these obviously not what
[3:57:34] Speaker 20: they're saying versus and then they're saying. But if you
[3:57:36] Speaker 20: look stand back and look back up all these verses together,
[3:57:38] Speaker 20: you see the story, you see the bigger picture.
[3:57:41] Speaker 1: It's exactly what they're doing.
[3:57:43] Speaker 2: But to me.
[3:57:44] Speaker 1: I think it's as honest. I've done the same. I've
[3:57:45] Speaker 1: got a collection of prophecies out of context and typeological
[3:57:49] Speaker 1: and whatnot that are about me. I got a whole
[3:57:51] Speaker 1: document full of them, because like, if you're just going
[3:57:54] Speaker 1: to the Old Testament, you're saying, Okay, I don't care
[3:57:56] Speaker 1: about the context, I don't care about what the actual
[3:57:58] Speaker 1: meaning of the text is, and you're just finding like
[3:58:01] Speaker 1: loose vague quotes and stories. Well, they got news for you.
[3:58:05] Speaker 1: I fit that too, right, So, like, I don't think
[3:58:08] Speaker 1: it's ever a good idea to interpret prophecy by ignoring
[3:58:12] Speaker 1: the context and the meaning of the original offering of it.
[3:58:19] Speaker 20: Okay, Well, in future conversations with you, would you just
[3:58:21] Speaker 20: prefer I go straight right to linear.
[3:58:23] Speaker 3: And then do you Okay?
[3:58:27] Speaker 1: Cool, But Moca's good talking to you. It's been a
[3:58:30] Speaker 1: minute since we chatted, but always good to hear from you.
[3:58:35] Speaker 3: Man, God bless cheers.
[3:58:37] Speaker 1: Man, it's been a minute since we talked to Moca.
[3:58:41] Speaker 1: But Mocha is a nice guy. We've conversed all over
[3:58:45] Speaker 1: text a little bit too. He's a good guy. I
[3:58:47] Speaker 1: think he's he's trying to figure out what he what
[3:58:49] Speaker 1: he believes just like all of us. I think I
[3:58:51] Speaker 1: think Moca, you know, sometimes you get Christians up here
[3:58:54] Speaker 1: that are hostile and ignorant. I don't think that Moca
[3:58:57] Speaker 1: is either of those two things. I think he's just
[3:58:59] Speaker 1: trying to figure some stuff out. But let's grab a
[3:59:02] Speaker 1: couple super tests. We're gonna get Kaiden here next. Ferris,
[3:59:05] Speaker 1: thank you for the twenty dollars supertests just should have
[3:59:08] Speaker 1: dropped at the moment of that crypto fash dog whistle
[3:59:12] Speaker 1: of small hats. What it's so boring as a boring
[3:59:18] Speaker 1: as this belief system are uni or nically you know,
[3:59:24] Speaker 1: you know, cornically, I may not understand what you're talking about.
[3:59:29] Speaker 1: Crypto fash dog whistle? Did I miss a dog whistle?
[3:59:32] Speaker 1: I must have missed something. Maybe I wasn't listening very well.
[3:59:36] Speaker 1: I apologize. Was he was he an anti vaxer? Did
[3:59:39] Speaker 1: he mention the vaccines? And I miss miss it? Anyways?
[3:59:42] Speaker 1: I mean, uh, Ferris, you might have called it. I
[3:59:45] Speaker 1: missed it. I apologize, But thank you for being here
[3:59:47] Speaker 1: and support in the channel. My friend and Duke. Thank
[3:59:50] Speaker 1: you for the Supertestas Greeks called ake, Persians means, I mean, uh,
[3:59:57] Speaker 1: the Archimedean Empire. A person meeds along with the actual meds.
[4:00:02] Speaker 1: I mean that is true, so he followed that error.
[4:00:05] Speaker 1: Darius the Mead is probably Darius the Second. I agree.
[4:00:09] Speaker 1: I agreed to Darius the second, Arian, son of an
[4:00:12] Speaker 1: Arian king of kings chosen by Ahura Mazda. Yeah, Duke,
[4:00:17] Speaker 1: I think we agree on all points here, and it
[4:00:19] Speaker 1: seems to be the case. And there's other Bible passages
[4:00:23] Speaker 1: too that would lead us to believe that, in fact,
[4:00:27] Speaker 1: they understood the meeting and the Persians to be separate kingdoms,
[4:00:30] Speaker 1: which is a whole other topic. But Dian's lover, good
[4:00:33] Speaker 1: to see you. Thank you for the super just as
[4:00:35] Speaker 1: this is my favorite show on Netflix. Thank you Justin
[4:00:38] Speaker 1: at al Prai, Doug and Sharon for their bedrock support
[4:00:41] Speaker 1: as we battle apologists. Well, thank you signs Lever for
[4:00:44] Speaker 1: supporting us as we battle the apologists, although you know,
[4:00:49] Speaker 1: some of them need battled and some of them just
[4:00:51] Speaker 1: need talk to. Mocha is a nice guy. We just
[4:00:53] Speaker 1: talked to Mocha. I do understand that there was a
[4:00:57] Speaker 1: portion of our audience that was bored during that conversation,
[4:01:00] Speaker 1: because we lost like three or four hundred viewers. That
[4:01:03] Speaker 1: doesn't happen from time to time. But MOGA's a nice guy. Friends.
[4:01:07] Speaker 1: All right, let's grab Kate and we'll get the conversation
[4:01:10] Speaker 1: moving with Kate, hohokom, is.
[4:01:13] Speaker 4: Christian theology harder than anything I've ever written in my life?
[4:01:18] Speaker 4: Like that sounds like the when you speak a literally
[4:01:22] Speaker 4: just it feels to me like you in discussing philosophy.
[4:01:26] Speaker 1: Oh I get that, yeap, I totally get that. The
[4:01:29] Speaker 1: way that like me and Mocha and others will talk
[4:01:33] Speaker 1: about the Biblical theology, I totally why understand why most
[4:01:37] Speaker 1: people would see that and zone out and be like,
[4:01:39] Speaker 1: what the fuck are they even talking about? I get it, mam,
[4:01:42] Speaker 1: That's just it. That's the nature of the beast. Kate,
[4:01:46] Speaker 1: welcome in. Are you at least eighteen? And do you
[4:01:48] Speaker 1: believe in God?
[4:01:52] Speaker 4: Yes, sir?
[4:01:52] Speaker 1: And oh not the not just the Romans, and not
[4:02:00] Speaker 1: just the Grecians but Greco Romans, So the Grease and
[4:02:05] Speaker 1: the Romans.
[4:02:08] Speaker 18: And if you do care, I guess it's more. But yeah, together.
[4:02:22] Speaker 1: Mhmm. So there's a little bit of an echo going on.
[4:02:27] Speaker 1: Give me one second, I'm gonna see if I can
[4:02:29] Speaker 1: get rid of your echo.
[4:02:31] Speaker 18: Yeah about that?
[4:02:35] Speaker 3: All right?
[4:02:35] Speaker 1: How far are you from your microphone?
[4:02:39] Speaker 11: My microphone should be my headphones.
[4:02:42] Speaker 1: But it could be my computer, So I mean, yeah,
[4:02:46] Speaker 1: it might have something goofy going on with your audio.
[4:02:48] Speaker 1: Because I'm hearing the echo myself. I assume they can
[4:02:51] Speaker 1: hear it on YouTube and TikTok because there's saying there's
[4:02:54] Speaker 1: an echo.
[4:02:57] Speaker 18: Okay, if it's bad, I can leave in come back
[4:03:00] Speaker 18: in another day.
[4:03:01] Speaker 1: It is better right now?
[4:03:04] Speaker 18: Oh okay, okay, it'll be good.
[4:03:07] Speaker 3: All right.
[4:03:07] Speaker 1: So then, hey, what is the what's the the evidence
[4:03:14] Speaker 1: or the argument or what have you or the Greco
[4:03:17] Speaker 1: Roman gods being real? And keep in mind this is
[4:03:19] Speaker 1: a really interesting topic because we don't get to talk
[4:03:21] Speaker 1: to people very often who believe in the Greco Roman gods.
[4:03:26] Speaker 18: It's nice to be here, and you do a lot
[4:03:27] Speaker 18: of good work.
[4:03:28] Speaker 21: I have to say, if I'm completely honest with you,
[4:03:32] Speaker 21: I don't really have an exact reason to believe in them.
[4:03:38] Speaker 21: It's more of like, uh, a desire or if fulfillment
[4:03:44] Speaker 21: a desire. And I could probably take an argument from beauty, but.
[4:03:48] Speaker 18: That's not going to go anywhere. That's concrete evidence.
[4:03:55] Speaker 1: Okay, So what convinced you that the Greco and God are.
[4:04:00] Speaker 21: Real, well mostly, and it's going to be a bit embarrassing,
[4:04:08] Speaker 21: I guess, since I know how you feel.
[4:04:12] Speaker 18: But Plato.
[4:04:17] Speaker 1: Is there a particular argument from Blato and.
[4:04:22] Speaker 18: I think that the poetry and the.
[4:04:29] Speaker 21: All of the dialogue captivating, and this is it's just
[4:04:34] Speaker 21: an argument from desire, because there's no such thing as
[4:04:38] Speaker 21: a soul, there's the potonic forms in the way that
[4:04:43] Speaker 21: scholars typically conceive them aren't real. There's no such thing
[4:04:47] Speaker 21: as like unchanging forms of things. And most of the
[4:04:53] Speaker 21: arguments that are actually in Plato don't really stand up
[4:04:57] Speaker 21: to the thinking of today. But the biggest thing that
[4:05:05] Speaker 21: I get from Plato is the connoya or like the
[4:05:11] Speaker 21: changing of the mind.
[4:05:12] Speaker 18: I don't know if you're Greek. I know you're really
[4:05:14] Speaker 18: good at Hebrew, but.
[4:05:17] Speaker 1: So yeah, I took about a little over a year
[4:05:22] Speaker 1: in Greek. I didn't give it as much time and
[4:05:26] Speaker 1: attention as Hebrew. Like I still kind of I understand
[4:05:30] Speaker 1: the grammar, but most of the most of my database
[4:05:34] Speaker 1: of words is dwindled down pretty small. Okay, So it
[4:05:42] Speaker 1: sounds to me like you read something from Plato and
[4:05:45] Speaker 1: it convinced you that the Greek gods are real, and
[4:05:48] Speaker 1: I guess what I'd like to see is if you
[4:05:50] Speaker 1: can articulate what that argument would be, well.
[4:05:57] Speaker 13: If we go through the.
[4:06:02] Speaker 21: I guess what I would call an argument of beauty
[4:06:05] Speaker 21: is that we can see all around us that the
[4:06:08] Speaker 21: world is in chaos, and somehow in that the poetry
[4:06:16] Speaker 21: is that we can see beauty or the gods in
[4:06:20] Speaker 21: this world, and also of course the one.
[4:06:25] Speaker 18: And it's just as simple as that.
[4:06:29] Speaker 21: It's just the text really captivated me, and I think
[4:06:35] Speaker 21: that's what happens, what has happened with me and other
[4:06:40] Speaker 21: religious in my life. So I don't really believe, I
[4:06:48] Speaker 21: guess I would say, in these gods, but I all
[4:06:51] Speaker 21: do believe in the gods. If you understand what I'm saying,
[4:06:54] Speaker 21: like the myths of the gods and of all this
[4:06:57] Speaker 21: the text, it doesn't make any sense. But I still
[4:07:00] Speaker 21: have the desire to participate in this religion because it's
[4:07:09] Speaker 21: like happiness didn't matter. It's more of fighting the dream
[4:07:15] Speaker 21: or like trying to achieve something you know can't happen.
[4:07:21] Speaker 1: So it sounds to me like you don't really believe
[4:07:23] Speaker 1: in these gods, you just like the religion.
[4:07:31] Speaker 18: I suppose you could put it that way.
[4:07:32] Speaker 1: Okay, I get that. You know, there are people who
[4:07:35] Speaker 1: are called secular Christians who don't really believe in the
[4:07:38] Speaker 1: Christian God, but they like the Christian faith and they
[4:07:42] Speaker 1: participated in anyways. And there's a lot of secular Jews
[4:07:45] Speaker 1: who do the same thing. They don't really believe in
[4:07:48] Speaker 1: the God of Judaism, but they do love Judaism itself
[4:07:51] Speaker 1: as a religion in the community. So it sounds like
[4:07:54] Speaker 1: you might fall into that category where you really don't
[4:07:57] Speaker 1: believe in these gods, but you do, like you really,
[4:08:00] Speaker 1: I love the idea and maybe even the community that
[4:08:03] Speaker 1: is developed within you know, Greek and Roman philosophers that
[4:08:07] Speaker 1: are based on these gods, and for that, we can
[4:08:10] Speaker 1: certainly respect you for for liking some of these arguments.
[4:08:14] Speaker 1: But if you don't believe these gods are literally real,
[4:08:18] Speaker 1: that means you're with me. We agree that God is
[4:08:21] Speaker 1: imaginary rather than for real. But okay, it was good
[4:08:26] Speaker 1: to good to talk to you. We don't get to
[4:08:27] Speaker 1: talk to many people who who are into like the
[4:08:31] Speaker 1: Greek gods. I had one friend that used to host
[4:08:33] Speaker 1: with me a little bit named Hanji, who like she
[4:08:36] Speaker 1: really does believe in the Greek gods. She's from Greece,
[4:08:39] Speaker 1: but we don't. We don't hear from people like that
[4:08:42] Speaker 1: very often.
[4:08:44] Speaker 18: Okay, thank you for having me. It's always good to be.
[4:08:49] Speaker 1: But cheers, friend, keep reading. They played, It was awesome played.
[4:08:53] Speaker 1: It was a lot of fun. We had a Christian
[4:08:55] Speaker 1: in the TikTok q and they dropped out. I was
[4:08:59] Speaker 1: gonna bring them up. Where'd they go? Let me see
[4:09:02] Speaker 1: what was their name?
[4:09:03] Speaker 3: They were?
[4:09:04] Speaker 1: They were in here shouting about Jesus just a minute ago,
[4:09:07] Speaker 1: and now they're now they're gone. That's not that's unfortunate.
[4:09:11] Speaker 3: I was.
[4:09:12] Speaker 1: I was getting the grill ready for a for a
[4:09:14] Speaker 1: cook session. But I guess they they could. They couldn't
[4:09:17] Speaker 1: take the heat. They had to run away unless they
[4:09:20] Speaker 1: got banned. Maybe they said some ship and got banned.
[4:09:23] Speaker 1: That seems to happen a lot. I don't seem in
[4:09:24] Speaker 1: the comments anymore. Did did did the mods ban that guy?
[4:09:31] Speaker 1: That Christian that was in here? He happened? Did you
[4:09:33] Speaker 1: guys ban him that way? I can't see him in
[4:09:37] Speaker 1: the count they got banned? What happened? I was gonna
[4:09:40] Speaker 1: bring him up. That's why they're not in the guest
[4:09:42] Speaker 1: box anymore because you banned them. Guys, how much supposed
[4:09:45] Speaker 1: to talk to anybody? If you if you, if you
[4:09:47] Speaker 1: kick him out, what do you do? Did anyone see
[4:09:51] Speaker 1: what what happened? I don't know. He's gone now, he's
[4:09:54] Speaker 1: not even in the chat. I was Dylan? If it
[4:10:00] Speaker 1: was Dylan, Okay, we'll bring Dylan up to be fine.
[4:10:04] Speaker 1: We you know what interesting as we didn't have a
[4:10:07] Speaker 1: Muslim all night yet?
[4:10:09] Speaker 4: But you think the best week?
[4:10:12] Speaker 1: Yeah? What a what a weird occurrence?
[4:10:16] Speaker 14: How are y'all doing?
[4:10:18] Speaker 1: Yeah? Dylan, welcome in? Are you at least eighteen? And
[4:10:21] Speaker 1: do you believe in.
[4:10:24] Speaker 3: Christian Jesus Christ is the true God?
[4:10:26] Speaker 1: I'm sure he is. What's the best evidence or argument
[4:10:30] Speaker 1: for the Christian God being real?
[4:10:33] Speaker 7: I would say earth what it is? And I would
[4:10:35] Speaker 7: say that your your belief on Earth I can already
[4:10:38] Speaker 7: tell is not true.
[4:10:39] Speaker 4: It's not true.
[4:10:40] Speaker 7: Cosmology. You've been taught Freemason pseudoscience since grade first. What
[4:10:48] Speaker 7: there is a flat, motionless plane with a firmanent above.
[4:10:52] Speaker 7: I'm not trolling everything I say.
[4:10:53] Speaker 5: I believe.
[4:10:54] Speaker 1: So yeah, how does gravity work?
[4:10:57] Speaker 3: Well?
[4:10:58] Speaker 7: Gravity? Thanks fall because they're denser than the air. Surrounding it,
[4:11:03] Speaker 7: and there is an electromagnetic current being pulled down. That's
[4:11:06] Speaker 7: why electro magnetic electricity.
[4:11:08] Speaker 1: Yes, electrictics so buoyant c works based on electromagnetive electromagnet magnetism.
[4:11:15] Speaker 7: You know what I'm saying, Gravity is false. Gravity comes
[4:11:18] Speaker 7: from a freemason, by the way, before Isaac Newton the
[4:11:22] Speaker 7: way to isscribed.
[4:11:24] Speaker 1: Where the seri of gravity comes from. When what I'm
[4:11:26] Speaker 1: asking you is why density.
[4:11:27] Speaker 7: Works, because I'm saying because they're heavier than.
[4:11:32] Speaker 1: The around it. That's why he Well, the heaviness has
[4:11:36] Speaker 1: nothing to do with whether or not it's going to
[4:11:37] Speaker 1: rise or fall. Heavy is a reference to gravity, right,
[4:11:41] Speaker 1: So without gravity, there's no such thing as heavier.
[4:11:45] Speaker 7: But your view of gravity is false. You think it's
[4:11:47] Speaker 7: because there's a heavy core pulling at the center of space. No,
[4:11:52] Speaker 7: I don't believe.
[4:11:54] Speaker 1: I don't believe that at all.
[4:11:55] Speaker 7: No gravity how they describe gravity, warping.
[4:11:58] Speaker 1: Of no gravity is a warping of space time.
[4:12:02] Speaker 7: Yeah, it's like a heavy matter pulling down in space,
[4:12:05] Speaker 7: is what I'm saying.
[4:12:05] Speaker 1: No, that's not the case.
[4:12:07] Speaker 4: And not have you seen the just saying have you
[4:12:11] Speaker 4: seen the videos of which they would put a helium
[4:12:14] Speaker 4: balloon inside the vacuum chamber and it would fall down?
[4:12:19] Speaker 2: Right?
[4:12:19] Speaker 4: Would that work?
[4:12:22] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[4:12:22] Speaker 7: But I'm saying gravity is not real.
[4:12:24] Speaker 4: Bro's density.
[4:12:27] Speaker 7: He describes it way better.
[4:12:28] Speaker 3: Than it is.
[4:12:29] Speaker 4: Density. Sure, but why does a helium balloon to fall
[4:12:33] Speaker 4: down in a vacuum chamber.
[4:12:36] Speaker 7: I'm saying, why does healium rise because.
[4:12:38] Speaker 4: It's ignory ignored the not because inst it is because
[4:12:45] Speaker 4: of gravity is But anyways, in a vacuum chamber, why
[4:12:49] Speaker 4: does a helium balloon fall down?
[4:12:51] Speaker 3: That up?
[4:12:54] Speaker 7: I don't know, man, I'm just letting you know anything, Okay.
[4:12:59] Speaker 4: In a vacuum chamber in each direction? Yeah, didn't.
[4:13:03] Speaker 7: I'm telling you electromagnetics disprove gravity because the only thing
[4:13:07] Speaker 7: you needed to knowing everything I say, believe it might
[4:13:11] Speaker 7: not be real?
[4:13:13] Speaker 20: Yeah?
[4:13:13] Speaker 1: From geniuses?
[4:13:15] Speaker 7: Yeah?
[4:13:15] Speaker 1: Like how Like how does Albert Well, I didn't teach
[4:13:19] Speaker 1: any of that.
[4:13:20] Speaker 7: No, he's not really a genius. He's kind of a bitch.
[4:13:24] Speaker 1: How does electromagnetism work against non conductors?
[4:13:28] Speaker 14: Dude?
[4:13:29] Speaker 7: I don't know, but I'm telling you. Nikolaye Tesla has
[4:13:31] Speaker 7: a quote. What he's saying, electromagnetics disproves gravity.
[4:13:35] Speaker 1: I'm telling you about it.
[4:13:35] Speaker 7: Gravity comes from a Freemason. That's why it has a gystem.
[4:13:43] Speaker 3: Al.
[4:13:44] Speaker 7: So we're going to get you know, we're going to
[4:13:45] Speaker 7: get the.
[4:13:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a it's a group of people who were.
[4:13:51] Speaker 7: In religion, buddy. It's certainly not their own highest sources
[4:13:55] Speaker 7: they say it. No, there literature books they say, like
[4:14:00] Speaker 7: morals and doctors.
[4:14:02] Speaker 1: They don't say it. I've got their book. So the
[4:14:04] Speaker 1: reality is the Freemasons were an offshoot of the Illuminati,
[4:14:08] Speaker 1: which was a Bavarian underground group that was formed to
[4:14:12] Speaker 1: discuss politics. Because at the time you couldn't discuss politics
[4:14:16] Speaker 1: openly because it was considered treason against the rulers. So
[4:14:21] Speaker 1: they had to form these goofy underground societies so that
[4:14:24] Speaker 1: they could actually come together and talk about religion and
[4:14:26] Speaker 1: politics without actually being persecuted. The Freemasons was just a
[4:14:31] Speaker 1: branch of these later Bavarian groups. And so they're not evil,
[4:14:37] Speaker 1: they're not Satan worshippers. In fact, I'm not even allowed
[4:14:40] Speaker 1: to be in the Freemasons because I don't believe in God.
[4:14:42] Speaker 1: In order to believe in the Freemasons, you actually have
[4:14:45] Speaker 1: to believe in some kind of a god. And I don't,
[4:14:48] Speaker 1: so they most certainly aren't Satan worshippers.
[4:14:50] Speaker 3: And I do have.
[4:14:54] Speaker 1: I do actually have their manuals. Like they're not hard
[4:14:58] Speaker 1: to get. You can buy them online, you can download
[4:15:01] Speaker 1: them in PDF form. The reality is they don't believe
[4:15:04] Speaker 1: any of the nonsense that you believe that they believe.
[4:15:06] Speaker 1: But all that being said, there's a lot of people
[4:15:09] Speaker 1: on the Internet that would do like a really fun
[4:15:12] Speaker 1: like flurf debate with you. And I'm certainly down to
[4:15:17] Speaker 1: do the flurf debate, and I'm certainly down to do
[4:15:19] Speaker 1: a religion debate, but I don't really care about the Freemasons.
[4:15:22] Speaker 1: I'm not interested in in debating you on a topic
[4:15:25] Speaker 1: you clearly have no knowledge of. The I'll ask you
[4:15:29] Speaker 1: one more question about blurfdom and then I'm going to
[4:15:32] Speaker 1: ask you a question about about your Messiah. So do
[4:15:36] Speaker 1: you know how satellites work?
[4:15:40] Speaker 7: Yeah, First of all, look at a video of a
[4:15:42] Speaker 7: satellite coming down. They always come down with the weather
[4:15:44] Speaker 7: bloom buddy. The secondly, you say it's a lucifering religion,
[4:15:51] Speaker 7: It's no, they don't.
[4:15:52] Speaker 1: So we'll try this again. That didn't actually answer my question.
[4:15:55] Speaker 1: My question was do you know how satellites work, yes, dude, okay, fantastic.
[4:16:00] Speaker 1: And have you ever seen one?
[4:16:03] Speaker 3: Yes?
[4:16:04] Speaker 1: No, no, in real life in a picture now on
[4:16:07] Speaker 1: the internet, in real life. And where were you in your.
[4:16:10] Speaker 7: Where were you NASA Space Center?
[4:16:14] Speaker 3: Oh?
[4:16:14] Speaker 1: You lying motherfucker. Okay, he's either a really bad liar
[4:16:21] Speaker 1: or a really bad troll on the.
[4:16:25] Speaker 3: I for their iridium project and actually got to practice
[4:16:31] Speaker 3: to see if we could actually get a a ridium
[4:16:34] Speaker 3: satellite to crash into the planet.
[4:16:36] Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean anyone who spent there anytime, who
[4:16:44] Speaker 1: spent any time in like engineering or in like an
[4:16:49] Speaker 1: electrical engineer, like I've been lucky enough to have to
[4:16:52] Speaker 1: do some projects. I've worked on some projects where we
[4:16:55] Speaker 1: did try lateralization, and the reality is pride lateralization through
[4:17:00] Speaker 1: satellites don't work unless you calculate a globe Earth, unless
[4:17:03] Speaker 1: it's a really short distance that you're trying to calculate.
[4:17:07] Speaker 1: But if you're calculating over long distances, you have to
[4:17:10] Speaker 1: assume that the Earth is round, which is why in fact,
[4:17:13] Speaker 1: all of our GPS models, the ones that are on
[4:17:16] Speaker 1: your tesla, on your garment, on your ev go or
[4:17:19] Speaker 1: whatever it is, all of them have a glob birth,
[4:17:23] Speaker 1: every one of them.
[4:17:24] Speaker 5: Yep.
[4:17:25] Speaker 3: And if you're using a sextant, you have to know
[4:17:28] Speaker 3: your ie height, not your height, but your eye height
[4:17:31] Speaker 3: above sea level in order to properly do the calculations.
[4:17:36] Speaker 3: If you don't have your ee height right, you won't
[4:17:39] Speaker 3: get the correct calculations. And that is because your IE
[4:17:44] Speaker 3: height determines how far to the horizon you are you
[4:17:48] Speaker 3: can see, which is how you do your calculations. So, yeah,
[4:17:52] Speaker 3: there's no form of navigation that doesn't require a glob birth. Yeah.
[4:17:57] Speaker 1: Indeed, let me grab a t y This might be
[4:18:01] Speaker 1: the famous t y O our YouTube chat that everybody
[4:18:07] Speaker 1: hates that says is a troll? T y wolf, t
[4:18:12] Speaker 1: y WO come in or at least eighteen and do
[4:18:13] Speaker 1: you believe in God? Why are there? He's gone? I
[4:18:28] Speaker 1: can only assume t y is a is a troll.
[4:18:33] Speaker 1: Oh well, we'll see anyways. Friends. That is the end
[4:18:39] Speaker 1: of our of our queue. We've actually gone through the
[4:18:43] Speaker 1: entire queue. This doesn't happen very often, but that's okay.
[4:18:46] Speaker 1: I have to wake up super early tomorrow to meet
[4:18:49] Speaker 1: my my boy Dan at the gym. We couldn't work
[4:18:51] Speaker 1: out during the week, so We're doing it Saturday morning,
[4:18:54] Speaker 1: which is literally the worst fucking time to work out
[4:18:56] Speaker 1: because I want to sleep. And that being said, I'm
[4:18:58] Speaker 1: not gonna do it. I'm gonna force myself to get there.
[4:19:00] Speaker 1: We're working out at like eight eight thirty in the morning,
[4:19:03] Speaker 1: so I'm not going to stay up till two in
[4:19:04] Speaker 1: the morning this time. I stayed up super late Wednesday.
[4:19:07] Speaker 1: Not going to do it tonight. So I'm going to
[4:19:09] Speaker 1: read through some super chats while I'm doing that. Friends,
[4:19:13] Speaker 1: make sure if you're not following M's you're doing so.
[4:19:15] Speaker 1: If you're not following Jim, make sure you're doing though.
[4:19:18] Speaker 1: And Jim has a YouTube channel as well as a
[4:19:21] Speaker 1: TikTok channel, and so you can find them on YouTube.
[4:19:24] Speaker 1: You can find him on TikTok. Jim, what's your YouTube handle?
[4:19:30] Speaker 3: I am pretty much Jim Burrows everywhere. So yeah, and
[4:19:35] Speaker 3: there is one other Jim Burrows, so make sure it's
[4:19:38] Speaker 3: got my fat face on it. But I don't know
[4:19:41] Speaker 3: if that Jim Burrows is on any social media. He
[4:19:45] Speaker 3: is on gmails, so which is how I know he exists.
[4:19:51] Speaker 1: And I'm sure sometime soon you and I would be
[4:19:53] Speaker 1: on AXP Again, it's only a matter of time.
[4:19:56] Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm really really hoping it's soon. I know. I
[4:20:00] Speaker 3: think I'm on the seventh. I'm on a XP and
[4:20:07] Speaker 3: I forget who I'm on with. I forget anyway, and
[4:20:13] Speaker 3: then I'll be on Skeptic Van coming up soon. You're
[4:20:15] Speaker 3: setting that up now, and I will actually be on
[4:20:20] Speaker 3: with Aaron Lewis, and honestly, you'll probably be Warren Sedd
[4:20:25] Speaker 3: Aaron Lewis and you Army. She's a former sex worker,
[4:20:28] Speaker 3: writes some really good books, so I'll be on with
[4:20:32] Speaker 3: her when they get that finalized. So I think it's
[4:20:35] Speaker 3: just this Sunday actually, But that was good.
[4:20:39] Speaker 1: Excited for that. All right, Well, listen, my friends, I'm
[4:20:42] Speaker 1: I'm going to read some super chats. Go find Jim's
[4:20:46] Speaker 1: profile and follow him up. Make sure he's in your
[4:20:49] Speaker 1: list of people you follow if you haven't already done
[4:20:51] Speaker 1: so yet. And doctor WMBLA, thank you for sending out
[4:20:55] Speaker 1: one dzy debate gifted membership. I appreciate that. And Interstate
[4:20:59] Speaker 1: five is with us, says Matthew ten. Five through six
[4:21:02] Speaker 1: Jesus forbids converting gentiles. Well kind of. In Matthew ten,
[4:21:06] Speaker 1: he's sending out his disciples into the villages, and it
[4:21:10] Speaker 1: seems to be he's specifically sending them out only to
[4:21:13] Speaker 1: the non Gentiles, to the Hebrew villages. But I'm not
[4:21:18] Speaker 1: entirely sure interstate that this is a universal command for
[4:21:23] Speaker 1: all time, because other places in the Gospels Jesus does,
[4:21:29] Speaker 1: in fact indicate that he does want to make converts
[4:21:32] Speaker 1: of all the Gentiles, namely Matthew twenty eight. You know
[4:21:35] Speaker 1: all the nations, right, So it just kind of depends
[4:21:38] Speaker 1: on your hermeneutic. Is it possible that Matthew ten was
[4:21:42] Speaker 1: an earlier an earlier statement by Jesus, and then some
[4:21:47] Speaker 1: of the whole Gospels of the Gentiles was something later
[4:21:51] Speaker 1: added into the gospels. That certainly is a point, because
[4:21:55] Speaker 1: there certainly seems to be a strata of data within
[4:21:59] Speaker 1: the Gospels that seemed like more matching Jesus's time period,
[4:22:03] Speaker 1: namely like this is all about the Jews, whereas the
[4:22:07] Speaker 1: later portions of the Gospels seem to be much more
[4:22:10] Speaker 1: already after seventy a d God's mad at the Jesus,
[4:22:14] Speaker 1: why he punished them and removed them from grace, you
[4:22:17] Speaker 1: know that kind of a thing, right, So it it
[4:22:19] Speaker 1: it kind of depends on how you're reading it. HD says,
[4:22:22] Speaker 1: I've had my RNG. I've had bad ring. My whole
[4:22:27] Speaker 1: life sucks to suck. What is RNG is short for
[4:22:31] Speaker 1: something that I should know. I've had bad RNG my
[4:22:35] Speaker 1: whole life. H I've never heard them. Well, listen, I'm
[4:22:42] Speaker 1: sorry that you've you got rng, HD, but thank you
[4:22:46] Speaker 1: for being here. We appreciate you supporting the channel too,
[4:22:48] Speaker 1: and gets gets in field good to see against. Throughout history,
[4:22:53] Speaker 1: human beings have always constructive stories to facilitate these social interactions.
[4:22:59] Speaker 1: If you even look at the code of Hammer robbery,
[4:23:01] Speaker 1: et cetera. Yes, that's my favorite thing. Like if you
[4:23:04] Speaker 1: think the law of Moses was unique, please please read
[4:23:09] Speaker 1: the law code of Hammer, Robbie, and then also read,
[4:23:13] Speaker 1: uh some of the other law codes. Read the law
[4:23:15] Speaker 1: code of Eshnouna and lappid Ishtar and the Middle Assyrian
[4:23:18] Speaker 1: law code. And there's so many good law codes, the
[4:23:22] Speaker 1: Palace Wall inscription law codes, so many good ones out there,
[4:23:26] Speaker 1: and the the mods on discorder saying RNG possibly refers
[4:23:34] Speaker 1: to random number generator, which I would not have guessed.
[4:23:39] Speaker 3: Okay, where's that? Where's that super chat? Now?
[4:23:42] Speaker 1: I already moved beyond it. I don't remember what he's
[4:23:45] Speaker 1: the same.
[4:23:46] Speaker 4: It's a bit move my life I've had. I've had
[4:23:50] Speaker 4: bed orang and.
[4:23:54] Speaker 1: That's certainly not random number generated that.
[4:23:58] Speaker 4: I think it might mean like bad luck.
[4:24:01] Speaker 1: Could be could be or could be a typo too.
[4:24:04] Speaker 4: I'm gonna go to so I done it.
[4:24:07] Speaker 3: M Yeah, thank you.
[4:24:13] Speaker 1: I get some rest, buddy. W M's what a legend.
[4:24:18] Speaker 1: I mean, just an absolute legend. I think Muslims check
[4:24:23] Speaker 1: under their bed at night for m's. That's that's my opinion.
[4:24:27] Speaker 3: But I would so.
[4:24:30] Speaker 1: Right, Josh, thank you for the Superjest says, what a
[4:24:33] Speaker 1: sweet relief it was to realize that when I die,
[4:24:35] Speaker 1: it's just over for me, no memory, no nothing. Yeah.
[4:24:38] Speaker 1: You know, I've heard that quite a bit for some people,
[4:24:40] Speaker 1: the idea that you're just gonna hoof it like that's
[4:24:43] Speaker 1: kind of relaxing for them, like it's the end, right,
[4:24:46] Speaker 1: no more struggles, no more pain. But I think that
[4:24:51] Speaker 1: on the other side of that, you're like, well, I
[4:24:53] Speaker 1: don't get to experience the good stuff anymore. Right, somebody's
[4:24:56] Speaker 1: aversion to death is somehow linked quite a bit to
[4:25:02] Speaker 1: how much they want to keep living, you know what
[4:25:05] Speaker 1: I mean? It seems to be the link there, and Christover,
[4:25:09] Speaker 1: thank you for the two our super thanks Justin for
[4:25:12] Speaker 1: the distraction from red Hat. Well, I get it, and
[4:25:16] Speaker 1: I had to like turn off politics because like for me,
[4:25:21] Speaker 1: it would I would waste so much time worrying about
[4:25:24] Speaker 1: what's happening politically that I wouldn't get stuff done. And
[4:25:26] Speaker 1: the reality is, I think the most important work that
[4:25:29] Speaker 1: I can do right now is what I'm doing right now,
[4:25:32] Speaker 1: so I don't want to get too distracted from it.
[4:25:34] Speaker 1: And Plus, I think when we deconvert people from these
[4:25:36] Speaker 1: right wing religions, they tend to deconvert from destructive politics too.
[4:25:40] Speaker 1: Not always, but certainly seems to be the case. God
[4:25:43] Speaker 1: Win thanking for the supertesss CNN Sunday Night show an
[4:25:46] Speaker 1: extracism child abuse. So it is child abuse. I didn't
[4:25:50] Speaker 1: know that they're going to be doing an extricism on CNN.
[4:25:54] Speaker 1: That's crazy. Now, I kind of want to see it.
[4:25:58] Speaker 1: Who's ever got a link to that? Fuck? Let me
[4:26:01] Speaker 1: look it up. I'd be interested to find out. Let's
[4:26:04] Speaker 1: see see an exorcism. It says four days ago. Maybe, Okay,
[4:26:14] Speaker 1: David Coulver's doing the report, Okay, I'll check it out. Hey,
[4:26:18] Speaker 1: thanks for the heads up. I really appreciate that. I'm
[4:26:20] Speaker 1: quite interested. I love the the mystical lore of the
[4:26:24] Speaker 1: Catholic Church. And Duke says, deconstruction luncheon serving deconstruction burgers
[4:26:30] Speaker 1: at the level of your choosing from rare to mister Spock, indeed,
[4:26:35] Speaker 1: we are going to be doing some of that.
[4:26:36] Speaker 7: Duke.
[4:26:37] Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you've been here all night, so you
[4:26:38] Speaker 1: definitely know it. And Jem and j great to see you.
[4:26:41] Speaker 1: It's been a hot minute. I hope you're doing well.
[4:26:43] Speaker 1: Thank you for the supertests verts and whoores schism? No
[4:26:47] Speaker 1: schism is just in dating there, I'm not friends, is
[4:26:51] Speaker 1: just in dating Kadasa, I'm not is just in dating.
[4:26:54] Speaker 1: The mute button on his mic fucking probably teach the controversy.
[4:27:01] Speaker 1: It's the ladder of all those It is the ladder
[4:27:03] Speaker 1: of all those things. That being said, Hadassa is a
[4:27:07] Speaker 1: delightful video. Go watch it and follow Sarah's channel. In fact,
[4:27:13] Speaker 1: fuck me, I think she's like like fifty away from
[4:27:18] Speaker 1: hitting ten thousand. Now, hold on, she's so close to
[4:27:22] Speaker 1: ten thousand, she needs like fifty more followers to hit
[4:27:27] Speaker 1: ten thousand. Um, like she's on the cuss. You guys
[4:27:31] Speaker 1: know leaving Faith channel. If you don't know leaving faith
[4:27:34] Speaker 1: on TikTok and YouTube, make sure you're typing in leaving
[4:27:37] Speaker 1: faith and following her channel. Let's get her up over
[4:27:39] Speaker 1: ten thousand. Finally tonight, let's make it. Let's get her
[4:27:42] Speaker 1: over the hump. JM thank you for the two dollars,
[4:27:45] Speaker 1: super thanks, I appreciate that. And swamper Man think you
[4:27:49] Speaker 1: for the super test, says hey, Justin If you're still
[4:27:50] Speaker 1: taking song recommendations, I never I never was. Friends. I
[4:27:57] Speaker 1: love you, but I was never asking for song recommendations. However,
[4:28:03] Speaker 1: if you have them, there is a thread in our
[4:28:05] Speaker 1: discord that I created so that you can add them,
[4:28:08] Speaker 1: so that I don't spend three hours a week adding
[4:28:11] Speaker 1: songs to a song list on Discord, says check out
[4:28:15] Speaker 1: Run Christian run by super Furry Animals, fun jam, love
[4:28:18] Speaker 1: the kiddies. Yeah, actually, I'm sure. I'm sure it is
[4:28:23] Speaker 1: a fun a fun jam. I haven't heard it. I
[4:28:26] Speaker 1: do love a good atheist jam. All that being said,
[4:28:31] Speaker 1: I don't think that i'm I don't think that I'm
[4:28:35] Speaker 1: I'm looking to maintain a canonical list of atheists worship music.
[4:28:41] Speaker 1: Now you gotta be careful. In fact, the cat is back.
[4:28:47] Speaker 1: I forgot to turn Kitty Cam on earlier. We get
[4:28:51] Speaker 1: Kitty Cam going until he jumps off the desk again.
[4:28:55] Speaker 1: Where are you going, buddy? Are you done already that fast? Okay?
[4:29:00] Speaker 7: No?
[4:29:00] Speaker 1: Maybe? Oh well, but yeah, Slamperman, make sure you get
[4:29:06] Speaker 1: into the discord and to the list. Duke back again
[4:29:09] Speaker 1: says since one hundred BCE from Greece to Egypt, they
[4:29:12] Speaker 1: waited for a chosen Apollo mithra dog to punish Roman upstarts.
[4:29:16] Speaker 1: When such prophecies fail, they are replaced by those of
[4:29:23] Speaker 1: apocalypse and death. Jeebus came at the bleeding edge of
[4:29:26] Speaker 1: that transition. That's a fair point. You and Jesus came
[4:29:31] Speaker 1: at a point where the prophecies had failed and they
[4:29:34] Speaker 1: were trying to find a way to rework the prophecies. Right,
[4:29:39] Speaker 1: How can we determine these prophecies to be true while
[4:29:44] Speaker 1: also ignoring the original context of the prophecies?
[4:29:47] Speaker 3: Right?
[4:29:47] Speaker 1: And so what you get then is like you get
[4:29:49] Speaker 1: the New Testament of like words don't mean words, and
[4:29:53] Speaker 1: we're gonna pigeonhole our Messiah into this book anyway that
[4:29:56] Speaker 1: we can and BOTHA thank you for this, says I
[4:30:00] Speaker 1: can't recommend books by the existential psychotherapist Irvin Jolum more
[4:30:06] Speaker 1: for deconstruction, Schopenhauer's Cure, among more will help eventually. Well,
[4:30:11] Speaker 1: thank you for the recommendation. Existential psychotherapy sounds like something
[4:30:17] Speaker 1: we put all benefit from, for sure, Or and follow
[4:30:23] Speaker 1: me here, okay. Or or you can get like a
[4:30:27] Speaker 1: cute little puppy or some kittens. I'm just saying. I'm
[4:30:30] Speaker 1: not saying you shouldn't do therapy. What I am saying
[4:30:33] Speaker 1: is that puppies and kittens are fucking great. God Win,
[4:30:36] Speaker 1: thank you for the supertest says you're using cute kittens
[4:30:39] Speaker 1: to turn me gay?
[4:30:41] Speaker 3: Gay?
[4:30:41] Speaker 1: We're justed. I love it. That's listen. I told you
[4:30:44] Speaker 1: what I'm down. I know they they told me that
[4:30:48] Speaker 1: I was turning people gay, and I'm okay with that.
[4:30:50] Speaker 1: This this is an outcome I approve of germs. Thank
[4:30:53] Speaker 1: you for the Supertestis Dalton go live so we can
[4:30:56] Speaker 1: gift you members. Indeed, he's gonna go live, gonna get
[4:31:00] Speaker 1: him stup tomorrow so he can he can get his
[4:31:02] Speaker 1: live stream started, because now that he he quit his job,
[4:31:06] Speaker 1: we gotta we gotta get it rolling fast. The cool
[4:31:09] Speaker 1: says Day twelve hundred of hoping someone in this live
[4:31:14] Speaker 1: converts me to Christianity. Rock Hard for Douglas are cool? Listen?
[4:31:18] Speaker 1: You know as well as I do. That's not gonna happen.
[4:31:20] Speaker 1: That's not a thing that that's that's coming. But uh,
[4:31:24] Speaker 1: you know, rock hard for Doug at least good to
[4:31:26] Speaker 1: see a friend, and Malcolm says follow Catholic school a
[4:31:30] Speaker 1: fellow Catholic school survivor, Well, welcome to the club. Although
[4:31:33] Speaker 1: I must admit I liked my Catholic school. I know
[4:31:36] Speaker 1: a lot of them that were shit. Mine was I
[4:31:38] Speaker 1: actually liked in Nominee Petre, at Ligny, at Calcula Ray,
[4:31:44] Speaker 1: in the name of the rocks and the wood and
[4:31:47] Speaker 1: the pebbles. Orthodox Dugism. Indeed, although all forms of Dougism
[4:31:53] Speaker 1: we approve of, Doug isn't strict on his theology. Neither
[4:31:58] Speaker 1: is Sharon. Just be good people, don't be dicks, you know. Weezer,
[4:32:02] Speaker 1: thank you for the two dollars, says I skipped the
[4:32:04] Speaker 1: gym tonight for this cooking lesson. Well, shit, Weezer, it
[4:32:08] Speaker 1: was maybe only a slightly uneventful night we've had better
[4:32:11] Speaker 1: cooking Friday night sessions. We didn't get a lot of
[4:32:15] Speaker 1: really good guests tonight, but we got some some decent
[4:32:17] Speaker 1: stuff going on. You know, some some live streams are
[4:32:20] Speaker 1: like that. You don't always get the guests you want.
[4:32:23] Speaker 1: And Jam and Jay coming back says, Jesus rides donkey
[4:32:26] Speaker 1: while donkey rides Colt. See this, this is the age
[4:32:30] Speaker 1: old question that we have to answer. This is very important,
[4:32:32] Speaker 1: jam and Jay. Did Jesus straddle two donkeys? Did he
[4:32:36] Speaker 1: plank on two donkeys? Did he stack the donkeys? Was
[4:32:39] Speaker 1: one in front of the other and the other behind
[4:32:41] Speaker 1: the one? And wonder for how did it occur? Nobody
[4:32:45] Speaker 1: seems to Actually no, I still come a little bit
[4:32:49] Speaker 1: partial to Jesus planking across the two donkeys, but you
[4:32:54] Speaker 1: know he could be doing the Sean Claude van Damn
[4:32:57] Speaker 1: splits between the two of them, and Simon thinking for
[4:33:01] Speaker 1: the supertest, says King justin you might be stronger than
[4:33:03] Speaker 1: King Jesus, but I highly doubt you're anywhere near as
[4:33:05] Speaker 1: strong is Burger King rock card for Doug. Nonetheless, well, listen,
[4:33:10] Speaker 1: Burger King's flame broiled. It's hard to beat that. I've
[4:33:14] Speaker 1: not survived flame broiler anything yet, so I can certainly
[4:33:17] Speaker 1: understand why Burger King might have a one up on
[4:33:20] Speaker 1: me and Meg. Great to see you as well, thank
[4:33:22] Speaker 1: you for the supertestes. Well, many species of snake constrict,
[4:33:26] Speaker 1: the asp or the cobra are the one ones people feared.
[4:33:31] Speaker 1: They're so the bite would be of concern rather than constriction.
[4:33:36] Speaker 1: I mean that is the point. Yeah, I mean some
[4:33:39] Speaker 1: snakes bite, some snakes constrict. I would imagine the cobra
[4:33:46] Speaker 1: and the asp are both biers. Right, So many species
[4:33:48] Speaker 1: snakes conserted ones people feared. Yeah, it was the bite, right,
[4:33:52] Speaker 1: I agree, I agree. I don't think there's that many
[4:33:55] Speaker 1: snakes that do that do the constricting. And Reverendate thank
[4:34:00] Speaker 1: you for the super test says if snakes were as
[4:34:02] Speaker 1: dangerous to children as religious people, then maybe I would
[4:34:05] Speaker 1: give a fuck about snakes, alas I have no fucks
[4:34:08] Speaker 1: to give justice for snake. I do agree, like when
[4:34:12] Speaker 1: we look at the evils perpetrated against children, I would
[4:34:16] Speaker 1: say that man made religions have done way more damage
[4:34:20] Speaker 1: than snakes, not that snakes haven't done some damage. But
[4:34:23] Speaker 1: and tiger Shark says, another cult in a sea of cults. Indeed,
[4:34:28] Speaker 1: there's almost no end to the amount of cults out there.
[4:34:32] Speaker 1: And well, I'm sure we'll see some more. Connor says,
[4:34:34] Speaker 1: been a while since I last tuned in. Awesome to
[4:34:36] Speaker 1: see Jim as guest. Keep on grillid. Yeah, Jim is awesome.
[4:34:40] Speaker 1: Those who know Jim from the acy experience a illustrious
[4:34:45] Speaker 1: career quite a while, should recognize his face, as I
[4:34:49] Speaker 1: think many of you might already be falling on YouTube.
[4:34:51] Speaker 1: If you're not falling on YouTube, make sure you do.
[4:34:55] Speaker 1: And she she two five says, I am so hoping
[4:34:59] Speaker 1: for being after return. Need the comic relief.
[4:35:02] Speaker 3: You know what.
[4:35:03] Speaker 1: I kind of thought he might return BMF. I hoped
[4:35:07] Speaker 1: he had returned or would return. We didn't get a return, though,
[4:35:10] Speaker 1: but just like Jesus, only a single coming. Lous skin
[4:35:17] Speaker 1: interesting name, says I've been watching you for a while
[4:35:20] Speaker 1: and not once has any Christian been able to prove
[4:35:22] Speaker 1: you wrong about the prophecies. Keep on keep it on
[4:35:26] Speaker 1: gay for Justin Rockcott, for Doug Well, First of all,
[4:35:29] Speaker 1: I love the King Arthur cartoon character you got there
[4:35:35] Speaker 1: from the Sword in the Stone. Amazing cartoon. I wanted
[4:35:39] Speaker 1: a pet named Archimedes growing up because of that movie.
[4:35:43] Speaker 1: That being said, yeah, LUs Skin, I've been running this
[4:35:47] Speaker 1: talking point for a long time. It was my original
[4:35:49] Speaker 1: talking point when I first got online. And the reality
[4:35:52] Speaker 1: is no Christian will ever defeat me on this talking point,
[4:35:55] Speaker 1: not ever, because the only way to do it is
[4:35:58] Speaker 1: to say, ignore the context and words don't mean words.
[4:36:02] Speaker 1: And the minute you say that, the argument's over. The
[4:36:04] Speaker 1: minute you get to ignore the context and words no
[4:36:07] Speaker 1: longer have meanings. Well it doesn't matter, uh, says the
[4:36:12] Speaker 1: baby heard that that might be the case, and just
[4:36:17] Speaker 1: k thank you for the supertest, says the caller, is
[4:36:21] Speaker 1: a gag ging on this bad talking boy. Yes, that
[4:36:25] Speaker 1: was a good play on first Samuel fifteen three and
[4:36:28] Speaker 1: King agag who was preserved, and then Saul had to
[4:36:32] Speaker 1: get punished for Ken Dreik does. It was a preacher's
[4:36:43] Speaker 1: sermon about Hell that caused me to question the doctrine
[4:36:46] Speaker 1: and began deconstruction, So it has upsides, that's a fair point.
[4:36:50] Speaker 1: It was for me going to Heaven's gates Hell's flames
[4:36:56] Speaker 1: that first pushed me into I need to be born
[4:37:01] Speaker 1: again right because I was already like a generic believer,
[4:37:04] Speaker 1: and then that play scared me into, you know, the
[4:37:08] Speaker 1: evangelical form of Christianity that we see so commonly today.
[4:37:13] Speaker 1: But the reality is like, if you need to scare
[4:37:18] Speaker 1: people into your religion, it's probably not all that convincing
[4:37:21] Speaker 1: to begin with. And John says, Doug loves you what
[4:37:25] Speaker 1: Indeed that is the case. Indeed, were doing their buddy,
[4:37:31] Speaker 1: You're doing their buddy. Trying to French chizy, handsome Cat,
[4:37:35] Speaker 1: good to see it, beautiful Cat says, fill me in
[4:37:38] Speaker 1: on the double Donkey thing. Well, it's not quite as
[4:37:40] Speaker 1: interesting as the double donger. Although if you if you've
[4:37:45] Speaker 1: been to certain parts of Mexico and you've heard about
[4:37:47] Speaker 1: the Donkey show, I mean, you never know, the Double
[4:37:51] Speaker 1: Donkey show might be something. And Adam says, in the
[4:37:54] Speaker 1: movie Yentl, Barbara streisand and Amy Irving use Wine on
[4:38:00] Speaker 1: the Street. I don't know anything about that movie. Actually,
[4:38:03] Speaker 1: I'm not sure I really comment on it. I'll I
[4:38:07] Speaker 1: certainly would like to check it out, but I don't know.
[4:38:10] Speaker 1: I guess I'm trying to figure out what what Wine
[4:38:13] Speaker 1: on the Streets has to do with some of our
[4:38:14] Speaker 1: prior conversations. I might be forgetting the conversation that we
[4:38:16] Speaker 1: were having earlier, but I mean, w Barbara streisand right,
[4:38:22] Speaker 1: Master Machette are good to see you. Thank you for
[4:38:25] Speaker 1: the Superjes says I'm transcendentally rock hard and gay for
[4:38:28] Speaker 1: Justin Hell. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, Master Machete, here,
[4:38:31] Speaker 1: let's go. Let's go. I need to add I need
[4:38:34] Speaker 1: like a gay for Justin emoji now uh oh yolante.
[4:38:39] Speaker 1: Thank you for the five dollars super thanks. I appreciate that, friends,
[4:38:41] Speaker 1: and congratulations on your job. Interview Demon Jay says Philbro
[4:38:45] Speaker 1: All go smile at mirror to check symmetry. Oh no,
[4:38:51] Speaker 1: If I had to guess that Phil Bro never spy
[4:38:54] Speaker 1: smiles that that that kid didn't sound like the type
[4:38:57] Speaker 1: of person that spends a lot of time smiling, which
[4:38:59] Speaker 1: is why he's up in here crashing out on my
[4:39:01] Speaker 1: live stream. Trump failed. Thank you for the superchest says.
[4:39:05] Speaker 1: The ontological modal argument for God is based on possibilities.
[4:39:08] Speaker 1: It's the dumbest fucking thing ever. I agree the minute
[4:39:12] Speaker 1: your argument is something that's possible must be true, You're done.
[4:39:17] Speaker 1: It's over. It's a dumb, dumb argument. Something being possible
[4:39:20] Speaker 1: has nothing to do with something being true. There's a
[4:39:24] Speaker 1: lot of things that are possible that we have no
[4:39:27] Speaker 1: reason to believe are true. It's possible there's a teapot
[4:39:31] Speaker 1: floating around Jupiter. There's no reason why there couldn't be one.
[4:39:34] Speaker 1: But until one is demonstrated to be circling Jupiter, we
[4:39:37] Speaker 1: have no reason to believe that one is. Doctor Wasabo
[4:39:40] Speaker 1: says Jim doesn't have an epistemology or doesn't have a pistemology,
[4:39:48] Speaker 1: or on toil, on toilogy, blah. I see the word
[4:39:52] Speaker 1: player you're going for. I appreciate that, it says, poor
[4:39:56] Speaker 1: Fuelbro has all was all up in his fields. Please
[4:40:00] Speaker 1: send them to BMF for a mute chat. I should have,
[4:40:04] Speaker 1: but unfortunately, when the guests come on and they're on,
[4:40:09] Speaker 1: and they're on TikTok rather than on YouTube, I don't.
[4:40:12] Speaker 1: I can't really do much with that, Like I have
[4:40:15] Speaker 1: no ability to mute them and put them in the background.
[4:40:17] Speaker 1: You know, I just have I have more limitations. Trent says,
[4:40:23] Speaker 1: I know I'm a convert to uh fadism, fatism, oh
[4:40:31] Speaker 1: fat ass is. It's like, what the hell is that?
[4:40:37] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[4:40:39] Speaker 1: I do like this all hail Jim, Although this seems
[4:40:42] Speaker 1: kind of cruel I don't know if this is the
[4:40:43] Speaker 1: religion we need. Justin check out seven Hail Mary's by
[4:40:47] Speaker 1: Flesh for Lulu, a song about Catholic guilt. Oh fuck,
[4:40:51] Speaker 1: that does sound pretty good.
[4:40:54] Speaker 3: Catholic. Yeah.
[4:40:57] Speaker 1: I have a former Catholic school student, but I never
[4:40:59] Speaker 1: really did into the Catholic nonsense, only because, like I
[4:41:03] Speaker 1: learned at an early age that they were they were
[4:41:06] Speaker 1: diddling all the kids, and I was like, well, fuck
[4:41:08] Speaker 1: that that's that. That can't be right.
[4:41:11] Speaker 3: Yeah, but I'm so I mean, and I was an
[4:41:13] Speaker 3: ultra boy at one point too, so yeah.
[4:41:16] Speaker 1: Right, yeah yeah.
[4:41:19] Speaker 5: Uh.
[4:41:19] Speaker 1: The Miss Mandy Show says happy weekend. I'm at band
[4:41:23] Speaker 1: practice and my bandmates are now fans. We're enjoying the
[4:41:26] Speaker 1: barbacute cheers.
[4:41:27] Speaker 3: Friend.
[4:41:27] Speaker 1: Well shit, thank you, miss h Mindy, I appreciate that.
[4:41:30] Speaker 1: And uh rock out for Doug, thanks for sharing me
[4:41:34] Speaker 1: with your friends. Dank byrd Gang says, what is the
[4:41:37] Speaker 1: nonsense of us saying the name of God when we breathe?
[4:41:40] Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Okay, so there's a dumb, dumb talking
[4:41:44] Speaker 1: point that we we utter the name yahweh every time
[4:41:48] Speaker 1: we inhale and exhl. I don't know about you.
[4:41:49] Speaker 3: I don't.
[4:41:51] Speaker 1: Yeah, wait, that's not how I breathe. Whatever moron decided
[4:41:56] Speaker 1: that that was going to be talking point, they should
[4:41:58] Speaker 1: have their speaking privileges revote. It's embarrassing. Ham Ran come
[4:42:03] Speaker 1: in and again, thank you friends. As Dalton, are you
[4:42:05] Speaker 1: going live on YouTube tomorrow? Maybe if we can get
[4:42:07] Speaker 1: his rig set up, which I think we'll be able to.
[4:42:10] Speaker 1: And Trent says, you didn't ask the caller if God
[4:42:13] Speaker 1: was nWo black or white or black or in red?
[4:42:16] Speaker 1: God is just too sweet for the wrestling fans. Yeah,
[4:42:20] Speaker 1: so that's the thing. The nWo insider stuff from like
[4:42:25] Speaker 1: the late nineties early two thousands might be above most
[4:42:29] Speaker 1: of the audience. I think that those who are of
[4:42:32] Speaker 1: my age might know the like the wolf Pack and
[4:42:36] Speaker 1: the nWo from the e olden days. But I don't
[4:42:39] Speaker 1: know if many of the people here understand those references.
[4:42:41] Speaker 1: But trust me, when I hear nWo New World Order,
[4:42:44] Speaker 1: that's where my mind goes. And Corporan says, the cut
[4:42:48] Speaker 1: argument always gets them off guard. I know it's because
[4:42:52] Speaker 1: if there's one section of the Bible that I know
[4:42:55] Speaker 1: they haven't read, I can guarantee they haven't read. It's
[4:42:58] Speaker 1: a one die terry laws and Leviticus eleven. That's the case,
[4:43:02] Speaker 1: thank Bert coming against. A good question for them is
[4:43:05] Speaker 1: if salt loses its taste, as Jeebus said in Matthew
[4:43:09] Speaker 1: five thirteen. So that's the thing is, I don't know
[4:43:12] Speaker 1: if salt can lose its taste. I've never heard of
[4:43:16] Speaker 1: such a thing.
[4:43:17] Speaker 3: No, you can't. Yeah, I mean salt is one of
[4:43:22] Speaker 3: the only spice. Said you could add so much of
[4:43:25] Speaker 3: it that the food is on outm inedible. So no,
[4:43:29] Speaker 3: it doesn't lose its taste.
[4:43:32] Speaker 1: I don't think it was. Yeah, unless you lose your taste, Bud.
[4:43:37] Speaker 1: It's a good point, doctor Fudge. It says it's not
[4:43:40] Speaker 1: a red herring, it's a rock badger. Indeed that that
[4:43:46] Speaker 1: guest had no idea what was happening. He was just
[4:43:48] Speaker 1: saying words, trying to find any breathing room. And God's
[4:43:52] Speaker 1: little atheist interesting name, Sinus Justin. I asked a question
[4:43:56] Speaker 1: the other day that was too personal, and I just
[4:43:59] Speaker 1: want to truly apologize for crossing a line. Keep cooking
[4:44:02] Speaker 1: rock well, godzill it does happen. I don't know which
[4:44:07] Speaker 1: question you asked it, but I think I know which
[4:44:09] Speaker 1: one it is. And I get asked that quite a bit.
[4:44:11] Speaker 1: It's fine, just one of those things, and I understand
[4:44:16] Speaker 1: why people would want to know. You know, it is
[4:44:19] Speaker 1: what it is, No worries, worries, and author Jack says,
[4:44:22] Speaker 1: a successful look at the trees argument premise one, the
[4:44:25] Speaker 1: universe exists. Premise two, look at the trees conclusion, the
[4:44:28] Speaker 1: universe exists. This is the only successful look at the
[4:44:32] Speaker 1: trees argument. I do concur and Adam. Good to see you,
[4:44:36] Speaker 1: my friend. Thank you for the additional supertests. Rum is
[4:44:39] Speaker 1: my favorite spirit, but I don't prefer the spice variety.
[4:44:42] Speaker 1: It may sit on my barcart for a while, but
[4:44:45] Speaker 1: I just added a bottle of Kraken to honor Doug Well.
[4:44:48] Speaker 1: Thank you for at least giving it a try. And
[4:44:53] Speaker 1: I would say that not all RUMs are created equal.
[4:44:55] Speaker 1: Some are better or worse than others. I think Kraken
[4:44:58] Speaker 1: is one of the best of them. If you like
[4:45:00] Speaker 1: spice RUMs and speak of the devil. Look who's here?
[4:45:09] Speaker 1: One second Sarah from leaving Faith.
[4:45:17] Speaker 14: Hi, how's it going good?
[4:45:19] Speaker 1: We're actually just reading super chats and ending the stream
[4:45:22] Speaker 1: early tonight. You but I was telling people that you're
[4:45:29] Speaker 1: only like fifty people subscribers away from hitting ten thousand
[4:45:33] Speaker 1: on YouTube.
[4:45:34] Speaker 14: I'm so close, so close.
[4:45:39] Speaker 1: Where's she at right now? Let me see if I
[4:45:40] Speaker 1: can see how close she is, because I've got nine
[4:45:44] Speaker 1: point ninety five thousand, though that means about about fifty right, Yep.
[4:45:51] Speaker 1: We've got to get it, friends, We got to get it. Actually,
[4:45:54] Speaker 1: we should be posting our next Bible study asap. I
[4:45:58] Speaker 1: got to clip it and send it over to her
[4:46:01] Speaker 1: account here tomorrow and then we're gonna we're gonna get uploaded.
[4:46:05] Speaker 1: Lou says. When they say everything that begins to exist
[4:46:08] Speaker 1: has a cause, they're smuggling in their claim and conclusion
[4:46:12] Speaker 1: about a god. Why not multiple causes? So again, we
[4:46:17] Speaker 1: agree with you, right, it could be an endless chain
[4:46:19] Speaker 1: of causes, and it could be that there's a naturalistic cause.
[4:46:23] Speaker 3: Right.
[4:46:23] Speaker 1: The idea that it has to be a god first
[4:46:26] Speaker 1: cause is silly, Like that's why these first cause arguments
[4:46:30] Speaker 1: are meaningless, because it just assumes that when there is
[4:46:33] Speaker 1: a first cause, we don't know that, and if there
[4:46:35] Speaker 1: was a first cause, that it had to have been
[4:46:37] Speaker 1: a God. That doesn't follow. The conclusion doesn't fit, you know,
[4:46:42] Speaker 1: Darth says, thank you for helping me, find some reality
[4:46:46] Speaker 1: justin well, darth, I gotcha, and Jim and Sarah both
[4:46:49] Speaker 1: all of us are in this fight together. But if
[4:46:53] Speaker 1: you didn't follow Jim or Sarah, now's your chance on
[4:46:55] Speaker 1: TikTok to both on the screen. Click on the profiles
[4:46:57] Speaker 1: and follow them, and then go over to YouTube you
[4:47:00] Speaker 1: tube and follow Jim Barrows and leaving faith on YouTube.
[4:47:03] Speaker 1: In fact, maybe by the end of the stream will
[4:47:05] Speaker 1: get you almost to ten thousand. We're at nine point
[4:47:09] Speaker 1: ninety seven. Oh my gosh, we need like twenty five
[4:47:14] Speaker 1: or thirty more friends. But really, in says Emmanuel, if
[4:47:19] Speaker 1: your argument doesn't work, you throw it out and the
[4:47:21] Speaker 1: conclusion of the argument, not try to make it work again.
[4:47:24] Speaker 1: I know you know what, though, at least Emmanuel was
[4:47:28] Speaker 1: being nice, Like he didn't come with much, but at
[4:47:31] Speaker 1: least he was being nice. An angry amlachit if it says,
[4:47:34] Speaker 1: can Emmanuel be a philosopher? Em Manual kant uh. That's
[4:47:39] Speaker 1: a good joke. That's a good joke. Emmanuel can't be
[4:47:43] Speaker 1: a philosopher, no way.
[4:47:50] Speaker 7: That was terrible.
[4:47:51] Speaker 5: Good job.
[4:47:53] Speaker 1: The round of applause for that one. Eggnog says, best
[4:47:57] Speaker 1: community on YouTube. Listen, I'm biased, but I agree the
[4:48:00] Speaker 1: deconstruction community on YouTube is amazing. And Sonic Trump says
[4:48:05] Speaker 1: Big Bang is a point we hit when we rewind everything.
[4:48:08] Speaker 1: It's not the beginning of anything. Couldn't agree more. We
[4:48:11] Speaker 1: have no reasonablieve that the Big Bang was the beginning
[4:48:13] Speaker 1: or the starting point of the origin of all things.
[4:48:16] Speaker 1: It's a nonsensical thing to believe in. Team as good
[4:48:19] Speaker 1: to see in my friends, been a minute. I hope
[4:48:21] Speaker 1: you're doing well. Thank you for the supertest as high.
[4:48:23] Speaker 1: Justin Do you prefer cracking gold or cracking black? Cracking black?
[4:48:27] Speaker 1: For sure, Cracking gold is watered down. It's only like
[4:48:31] Speaker 1: thirty five percent. Cracking black is full strength. It's like
[4:48:35] Speaker 1: forty one forty two percent, and it's less syrupy. The
[4:48:39] Speaker 1: cracking gold. They added like sugar and sweeteners and all
[4:48:43] Speaker 1: sorts of shit to it. And while it's enjoyable to me,
[4:48:47] Speaker 1: it's I don't like that they've they've prayed it into
[4:48:51] Speaker 1: a more fashionable drink with less alcohol for the masses
[4:48:54] Speaker 1: who want like this sweet, sweet, you know drink that
[4:48:57] Speaker 1: they can't handle the full blooded stuff. That being said, listen,
[4:49:02] Speaker 1: some people love it. I like the original. I like
[4:49:04] Speaker 1: the original. That's just me, he says. I haven't tried
[4:49:06] Speaker 1: cracking yet, but I want to hear your thoughts before
[4:49:08] Speaker 1: I buy a bottle. Get the original, get cracking black,
[4:49:12] Speaker 1: don't get the gold. Don't even worry about it. Is
[4:49:14] Speaker 1: is a gold drinkable? Sure, but I like, I don't know.
[4:49:18] Speaker 1: I don't go to my cabinet thinking, man, I'd love
[4:49:20] Speaker 1: to have a glass of the gold. Team that says,
[4:49:23] Speaker 1: how is the book you're writing coming along? Well, this
[4:49:26] Speaker 1: was a tough month. I didn't get to work on
[4:49:28] Speaker 1: this month. I finished like one chapter. I was supposed
[4:49:31] Speaker 1: to be doing like one chapter a week. I just like,
[4:49:34] Speaker 1: what a month? So it just is what it is.
[4:49:38] Speaker 1: I'm hoping to really bang out a couple chapters in December,
[4:49:43] Speaker 1: so if I can get like four or five chapters
[4:49:45] Speaker 1: out in December, I'll be getting close to seventy five
[4:49:48] Speaker 1: percent complete. So over we are making progress every month.
[4:49:52] Speaker 1: It's just slower than I had wished. I apologize. It's
[4:49:55] Speaker 1: just that I'm doing such a deep dive on every
[4:49:57] Speaker 1: one of these that I spend hours and hours doing
[4:50:00] Speaker 1: research and not actually doing any writing. And that's one
[4:50:03] Speaker 1: of the biggest problems. Is anyway, you can just sit
[4:50:05] Speaker 1: down and write a book, but when you're doing like
[4:50:06] Speaker 1: actual research, yet spend hours and hours doing research, and
[4:50:10] Speaker 1: so it's just one of those things, you know. Tome
[4:50:13] Speaker 1: And says, if y'all want another drink with a cool
[4:50:16] Speaker 1: or funny name, I recommend chicken cockbourbon. That that's a
[4:50:20] Speaker 1: chicken cock bourbon.
[4:50:21] Speaker 3: What is imagine?
[4:50:24] Speaker 1: I didn't know this was the thing. You ever heard
[4:50:26] Speaker 1: of this? Mm hmmm, listen, I've never heard of it,
[4:50:31] Speaker 1: but I'm more than willing to put some chicken cock
[4:50:33] Speaker 1: down the throat. I'm just reading super Chat's friends. I
[4:50:46] Speaker 1: didn't name it. Noah's lions ain't dead babies on the art.
[4:50:52] Speaker 1: Good to see you, my friend says, Is it just
[4:50:54] Speaker 1: me or does Revelation read like BDSM anime? Yes, it
[4:50:58] Speaker 1: really does. Like the people that are really the people
[4:51:04] Speaker 1: that are really into it strike me as the same community.
[4:51:07] Speaker 1: I could be wrong. Trying to shroom back again, says
[4:51:11] Speaker 1: the klom cosmological argument was invented by Muslims to devent Islam.
[4:51:15] Speaker 1: Do Christians repeating it even though they're putting Islamic theology
[4:51:19] Speaker 1: actually don't know the origin? I just know that William
[4:51:21] Speaker 1: Lane Craig is the one who really popularized it.
[4:51:26] Speaker 3: Yeah, if you read his original book, he says he
[4:51:29] Speaker 3: read it in some Islamic and it does come from Islam.
[4:51:33] Speaker 3: The Kalam is an Islamic name, so yeah, that is
[4:51:36] Speaker 3: the history. And then low bar Bill popularized it, as
[4:51:43] Speaker 3: you just said, so yeah, and he earned that name.
[4:51:47] Speaker 3: I'm not normally a fan of nicknames, but I used
[4:51:51] Speaker 3: to respect him until he did the low bar thing.
[4:51:53] Speaker 3: And it's like, okay, fine, you're low bar Bill.
[4:51:55] Speaker 1: Now on we actually got a low bar Bill in
[4:51:58] Speaker 1: our discord and YouTube community. You'll see him comment from
[4:52:01] Speaker 1: time to time with his face on it.
[4:52:04] Speaker 3: Dude, that's awesome. Uh.
[4:52:09] Speaker 1: And Duke back again, Good to hear from you again,
[4:52:11] Speaker 1: says yes, Emperor Constantine himself appointed my ancestor Duck's shaskorum.
[4:52:19] Speaker 2: Uh.
[4:52:20] Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't know that you were part
[4:52:22] Speaker 1: of the Holy Roman Empire. Now I've got questions. I
[4:52:25] Speaker 1: thought you were an atheist.
[4:52:26] Speaker 3: Duke.
[4:52:26] Speaker 1: We need to have a conversation. And Ty says, thank
[4:52:29] Speaker 1: you for your donation. But Ty, thank you for your donation. Friend,
[4:52:32] Speaker 1: and Paris says callers should try the oceension narts sagas instead.
[4:52:39] Speaker 1: Does anyone know what those are? I've never heard. Well now,
[4:52:44] Speaker 1: I mean hopefully they're listening. And hez thank you for
[4:52:48] Speaker 1: the five dollars. Supertest says, would you broach the topic
[4:52:50] Speaker 1: of Nebekneer's dream flash prophecy interpretation? Has any of it
[4:52:54] Speaker 1: been fulfilled?
[4:52:55] Speaker 2: Well?
[4:52:56] Speaker 1: Kind of. I mean it was written after the fact.
[4:52:58] Speaker 1: So the dream of and the statue is that there
[4:53:02] Speaker 1: are four kingdoms, the Babylonians, the Meads, the Persians, and
[4:53:05] Speaker 1: then finally the Greeks splash Macedonians. And all of this
[4:53:09] Speaker 1: was written after already the Macedonians had already conquered. But
[4:53:14] Speaker 1: they thought in the second century that after the Macedonians
[4:53:18] Speaker 1: they would finally depose and Taikis Epiphanes, and we would
[4:53:21] Speaker 1: have this ruling godly you know, eschatological period finally, and
[4:53:28] Speaker 1: it just never came right. And so most scholarly commentaries
[4:53:33] Speaker 1: will point out that in fact, the four kingdoms don't
[4:53:37] Speaker 1: end in Rome. They end Increase. And on my cheat sheet,
[4:53:41] Speaker 1: if you go to the appendix tab on my cheat sheet,
[4:53:44] Speaker 1: I list hold.
[4:53:45] Speaker 22: On one to three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen,
[4:53:55] Speaker 22: seventeen sources.
[4:53:57] Speaker 1: I have seventeen ancient sources on theppendix tab of my
[4:54:00] Speaker 1: cheat sheet of people of the ancient world describing exactly
[4:54:06] Speaker 1: this succession of kingdoms Babylonians, Meads, Persians, Greeks, not Rome. Right,
[4:54:15] Speaker 1: they weren't describing them as the Metal Persian Empire. In
[4:54:19] Speaker 1: the ancient world, everyone believed that the Meto Persian Empire
[4:54:23] Speaker 1: was part of a succession where the Meads were once
[4:54:26] Speaker 1: the ruling empire, and then they got conquered by the Persians,
[4:54:29] Speaker 1: and then the Persians were in charge. When we read
[4:54:32] Speaker 1: the four kingdoms in Daniel, we would read them in
[4:54:34] Speaker 1: their ancient context. It doesn't end in Rome. And Para
[4:54:39] Speaker 1: says callers should invest in the ohcension arch sagas again
[4:54:44] Speaker 1: with the same super jet. Totally appreciate it, though I
[4:54:47] Speaker 1: have no idea what those are, but maybe the caller
[4:54:49] Speaker 1: will look it up. And Farahs says there are serious
[4:54:52] Speaker 1: cognitive benefits to reading the Sephyr Yet Zeira, I mean maybe,
[4:55:00] Speaker 1: I mean possibly. I don't know what the like, the
[4:55:05] Speaker 1: cognitive benefits would be unless you believe that it's true. So, like,
[4:55:10] Speaker 1: I mean, theoretically there's benefits in releading reading all sort
[4:55:13] Speaker 1: of religious and para religious literature. That seems to be
[4:55:18] Speaker 1: the case, and Mark says, Huge Grace is also a freemason,
[4:55:24] Speaker 1: that's why her name starts with a G. In fact,
[4:55:28] Speaker 1: Huge Grace is holding up the conspiracy all on her own.
[4:55:31] Speaker 1: And Sda says, why would Satan punish people for disobeying
[4:55:34] Speaker 1: the same guy that he disobeyed? That's what doesn't make
[4:55:36] Speaker 1: any sense, Like why is Satan down in hell like
[4:55:40] Speaker 1: with pitchfork and fire torturing people if like we're doing
[4:55:45] Speaker 1: the thing that he wanted us to do, like we're
[4:55:47] Speaker 1: helping him succeed in his mission. Like this cosmic enemy
[4:55:51] Speaker 1: nonsense is just kind of silly, and it's baffling to
[4:55:55] Speaker 1: me that people believe in this type of like God
[4:56:00] Speaker 1: had to create his own weird cosmic enemy narrative. It
[4:56:02] Speaker 1: doesn't make like even the slightest sense.
[4:56:05] Speaker 23: Isn't God supposed to be punishing everybody like God is
[4:56:09] Speaker 23: punishing Satan, and like Satan is getting punished with.
[4:56:13] Speaker 6: Us in hell.
[4:56:17] Speaker 3: God, why do you let evil in the form of
[4:56:21] Speaker 3: Satan run around loose unless you're not also omnipotent or omniscient.
[4:56:26] Speaker 5: It makes no sense.
[4:56:27] Speaker 3: Either you need an enemy, do it for the plot, man, Yeah,
[4:56:36] Speaker 3: the plot is everything.
[4:56:38] Speaker 1: Breeding your own enemy is the wildest plot twist in
[4:56:41] Speaker 1: the Bible. Though, Bookitt says, MS, can you please say
[4:56:46] Speaker 1: baba booie M's is gone unfortunately, but if he was
[4:56:52] Speaker 1: here he I know he would say it for you.
[4:56:54] Speaker 1: So next time you're here, if you're listening or not
[4:56:57] Speaker 1: sleeping right now, we need to say baba booi next.
[4:57:00] Speaker 1: I'm Aaron says it's not a typo. MS is correct.
[4:57:03] Speaker 1: It means they're unlucky. Did I miss something? I forgot
[4:57:09] Speaker 1: what MS was talking about in terms of luck or typos?
[4:57:14] Speaker 1: I apologize if or yeah, sorry, it's already it's already gone.
[4:57:19] Speaker 1: It's already out of my memory. Doctor Fudge says it
[4:57:22] Speaker 1: does mean random number generator gamer lingo. So you're telling
[4:57:26] Speaker 1: me RNG random number generator is lingo. Now that is
[4:57:31] Speaker 1: popularized inside of gamer circles. For what, guys, I'm so
[4:57:38] Speaker 1: far disconnected from what's happening in like gen Z gamer
[4:57:42] Speaker 1: circles that I would never understand the r G abbreviation
[4:57:49] Speaker 1: high to random number generator and then tie random number
[4:57:52] Speaker 1: generator to video games. That's like.
[4:57:59] Speaker 3: If hits or not. Right is you can either draw
[4:58:03] Speaker 3: the straight line or you can use random number generator
[4:58:07] Speaker 3: also to generate where people are when and where things
[4:58:11] Speaker 3: are going to happen.
[4:58:12] Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I have no idea. None of this
[4:58:16] Speaker 1: is landing for me. I don't know any of this,
[4:58:18] Speaker 1: and I hope I'm not the only one. Like I know,
[4:58:21] Speaker 1: I'm an old buddy duddy, but this is over my head.
[4:58:26] Speaker 3: Engineer, and I didn't get it.
[4:58:30] Speaker 1: Rest and thank you for the find Supertest says. All
[4:58:32] Speaker 1: of the conspiracy theories about Freemasons cracked me up. My
[4:58:35] Speaker 1: father was a thirty second degree Mason and didn't even
[4:58:38] Speaker 1: believe in God. Yeah, so I do know. There are
[4:58:40] Speaker 1: a couple of people that I've known have been Masons
[4:58:43] Speaker 1: that are atheists, but they they said that they believed
[4:58:46] Speaker 1: in God even though they didn't you know what I mean. So, like,
[4:58:49] Speaker 1: I probably could get in if I would lie, but
[4:58:50] Speaker 1: I'm not sure I'm willing to lie. But I love
[4:58:53] Speaker 1: the Masonry conspiracy theories. I thought about joining just so
[4:58:57] Speaker 1: I can pray around and say that I'm a.
[4:59:04] Speaker 17: Or in.
[4:59:04] Speaker 1: Good to see you, buddy, says RNG equals a random
[4:59:07] Speaker 1: number generator equals luck, so bad luck, luck so bad luck?
[4:59:11] Speaker 3: Okay.
[4:59:11] Speaker 1: So random number generator is supposed to be an idiom
[4:59:15] Speaker 1: for bad luck. Okay, I can follow that. I just
[4:59:19] Speaker 1: didn't realize that was the case. Thank you for the clarification.
[4:59:23] Speaker 1: And uh Damelamama says, how do people say so many
[4:59:27] Speaker 1: words in messages to you? I mean, if you're referring
[4:59:32] Speaker 1: to superchats, the way that it works is as you
[4:59:35] Speaker 1: increase your message size, it just increases the price of
[4:59:39] Speaker 1: the super right. So you just have to change the
[4:59:42] Speaker 1: slider on your phone. That's how they get it. Speaking
[4:59:45] Speaker 1: of which, Chris did that? Chris, thank you for the
[4:59:47] Speaker 1: twenty six dollar are the two stick? Six to sixth?
[4:59:51] Speaker 1: Super Chat says RNG is random number generator In context,
[4:59:54] Speaker 1: it's a gamer thing. I appreciate that our end, Jesus
[4:59:59] Speaker 1: determined the chances of a certain type of outcome in
[5:00:02] Speaker 1: a game like bonus drops, et cetera aka luck. My
[5:00:06] Speaker 1: old religion, we lived and died on the random number generator. God. Interesting,
[5:00:13] Speaker 1: So this is like saying that God's God's ways are
[5:00:18] Speaker 1: like a random number generator and everything is just a
[5:00:22] Speaker 1: matter of rolling the dice. Is that what I'm what
[5:00:25] Speaker 1: I'm hearing here. It kind of seems like what I'm hearing, Chris,
[5:00:29] Speaker 1: is my eyes designed poorly. A random number generator equals luck.
[5:00:33] Speaker 1: Oh okay, so our biology is the result of random
[5:00:38] Speaker 1: number generation. It's just all it's luck. It's rolling the dice.
[5:00:41] Speaker 1: I could see. I'm seeing how this idiom makes sense,
[5:00:45] Speaker 1: But I can't say that I would have used this
[5:00:48] Speaker 1: in a sentence. And Zach SA's Modern Day Debates really
[5:00:51] Speaker 1: needs you over there. You wouldn't let the Christian debaters
[5:00:54] Speaker 1: get away with their shenanigans. Well, I'm trying to do
[5:00:59] Speaker 1: as much of the case on my channel and on
[5:01:01] Speaker 1: the other atheist channels. I don't know how much people
[5:01:05] Speaker 1: are watching MDD. I love MDD, by the way, but
[5:01:08] Speaker 1: I feel like more eyeballs are watching my channel in
[5:01:11] Speaker 1: the line and other channels that that's where we were
[5:01:15] Speaker 1: going to get the most stuff done. That being said,
[5:01:18] Speaker 1: I might be soon doing a modern day debate in
[5:01:23] Speaker 1: Texas at the University of Texas San Antonio, So they're
[5:01:27] Speaker 1: trying to get some debates going down there on campus,
[5:01:31] Speaker 1: and I think, right, I think debating on a college
[5:01:35] Speaker 1: campus would be actually really good for the community. I
[5:01:37] Speaker 1: think it would bring a lot of people into the fold.
[5:01:41] Speaker 1: So if we can decide on a date and time
[5:01:44] Speaker 1: and who's going to be there, I think we can
[5:01:46] Speaker 1: work it out. But I would certainly be interested in
[5:01:49] Speaker 1: debating on modern day debates at a university campus in
[5:01:52] Speaker 1: front of a captive audience. I think that'd be really
[5:01:54] Speaker 1: a dope experience and Noah's Lions good to see again.
[5:01:59] Speaker 1: For instance, donkey was Siamese twins. That's how you count
[5:02:02] Speaker 1: one or two. Oh, the double donkeys in Matthew were
[5:02:07] Speaker 1: Siamese twins, so technically it's one but also two. This
[5:02:10] Speaker 1: makes perfect sense. I never put that together, but that
[5:02:14] Speaker 1: is the case. Twenty four. Kate Luxury says, with BCAD
[5:02:19] Speaker 1: being based around Jesus and Christianity, marking us in twenty
[5:02:22] Speaker 1: twenty five, I think it subliminally keeps us attached to
[5:02:25] Speaker 1: religious ideology. As atheists we just accepted. How do you
[5:02:29] Speaker 1: feel about it? So I don't use BCAD, I use
[5:02:33] Speaker 1: BCE before Common Era, and BC I mean CE Common era.
[5:02:39] Speaker 1: And in reality, like the Christians didn't invent this as
[5:02:43] Speaker 1: far back as the Julian calendar, we already had a
[5:02:47] Speaker 1: division roughly around the time period of Jesus. That being said,
[5:02:52] Speaker 1: the BCAD doesn't even make any sense because before Christ
[5:02:56] Speaker 1: should should be zero, but we know he was born
[5:02:59] Speaker 1: in four BCE according to Matthew, So zero BCE can't
[5:03:04] Speaker 1: be the before Christ's turning point because he was born
[5:03:06] Speaker 1: in for BCE or for bc and AD doesn't make
[5:03:10] Speaker 1: any sense after death because that means there's a period
[5:03:13] Speaker 1: of thirty three years where there were no years. How
[5:03:16] Speaker 1: do you count year number one, year number two? Where's
[5:03:19] Speaker 1: the abbreviation for between birth and death? There isn't one.
[5:03:25] Speaker 23: It doesn't mean after death. Doesn't it mean like year
[5:03:28] Speaker 23: of our Lord ad anodena or whatever.
[5:03:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, so in Latin it means year of our Lord.
[5:03:34] Speaker 1: In most of the English, like the Western world, people
[5:03:37] Speaker 1: say before Christ and after death. That's what I was
[5:03:40] Speaker 1: trained in Catholic school to say, even though they would
[5:03:44] Speaker 1: have known the actual Latin rendering of it. That being said,
[5:03:48] Speaker 1: I'm assuming that when people say BCAD, they're using the
[5:03:53] Speaker 1: colloquial term after death. Like I don't expect people to
[5:03:57] Speaker 1: know Latin. But you're right, Yeah, the original Latin phrase
[5:04:01] Speaker 1: doesn't mean after death. Nevertheless, yeah do I I don't
[5:04:06] Speaker 1: have any feeling about it. Though, because like most of
[5:04:08] Speaker 1: the academic world and the world really I live in,
[5:04:11] Speaker 1: we don't use BC and a D anymore. Is BC
[5:04:14] Speaker 1: E and CE Sarah. Wasn't the last time you read
[5:04:18] Speaker 1: a book where it said a D in it?
[5:04:21] Speaker 15: Oh?
[5:04:21] Speaker 3: God?
[5:04:21] Speaker 23: Yeah, I was middle school, high school maybe long time.
[5:04:26] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's certainly been a long time for me. I
[5:04:28] Speaker 1: can't remember last time I read something like that. And
[5:04:30] Speaker 1: it was in like exclusively religious literature too. It wasn't
[5:04:34] Speaker 1: like something that you found in academic literature. Evan, nineties.
[5:04:41] Speaker 3: I believe that, Yeah, because when I went to high
[5:04:44] Speaker 3: school in the late eighties, we were still used in
[5:04:47] Speaker 3: ad Yeah.
[5:04:51] Speaker 1: Makes sense, Evan, Thank you for the ten dollars supertest says.
[5:04:54] Speaker 1: So my goal is a good Christian gall you mean
[5:04:57] Speaker 1: gall Or Gal is a good Christian gal, and I'm
[5:05:01] Speaker 1: a non believing heathen. We each other, now, do you
[5:05:05] Speaker 1: mean we love each other?
[5:05:06] Speaker 3: Now?
[5:05:07] Speaker 1: We each no, sorry, we know, brain shutting off, We
[5:05:13] Speaker 1: each know. Nevertheless, any advice for us, all Hill doug
[5:05:16] Speaker 1: ps love your Oric. Well, thank you, Evan. So listen,
[5:05:20] Speaker 1: if you're with someone who's religious and you're non religious
[5:05:23] Speaker 1: and you can respect each other's boundaries, no problem. The
[5:05:26] Speaker 1: reality is though to make it work, she can't be
[5:05:30] Speaker 1: deceived into thinking that she's going to convert you somehow.
[5:05:34] Speaker 1: That puts all kinds of unnecessary pressure on the relationship,
[5:05:38] Speaker 1: and you shouldn't be attempting to deconvert her. That's not
[5:05:42] Speaker 1: your job, right. That doesn't mean that you can't have
[5:05:45] Speaker 1: good conversations, that doesn't mean that you can't share information,
[5:05:48] Speaker 1: and you know, have opinions. But like, if your goal
[5:05:51] Speaker 1: is to have a good, loving relationship, you don't want
[5:05:54] Speaker 1: to turn each other into projects, you know what I mean.
[5:05:56] Speaker 1: I don't think that's fair to the other partner. You
[5:05:59] Speaker 1: should love the person that you're with the way that
[5:06:01] Speaker 1: they are. And if you can't seek therapy, see a professional.
[5:06:07] Speaker 1: Aaron says, Kracken needs to sponsor you. Could you imagine
[5:06:11] Speaker 1: I could? I need to email crack and see if
[5:06:15] Speaker 1: they sponsor me. I might have a sponsor in the
[5:06:18] Speaker 1: month of December. We'll see about that, but certainly Kracken
[5:06:22] Speaker 1: would be my number one sponsor. Come come and find
[5:06:25] Speaker 1: me Cracking. A sailient monk, thank you for the super test,
[5:06:29] Speaker 1: says you speak yahweh every time you breathe seems to
[5:06:35] Speaker 1: be taken from the Hindu thoughts on at man and
[5:06:39] Speaker 1: it's life breath co opted talking points. That's a fair point.
[5:06:42] Speaker 1: It might actually be a co opted talking point. I
[5:06:45] Speaker 1: don't fully know the origin of the talking point, but
[5:06:49] Speaker 1: if I had to guess, it was co opted. Christians
[5:06:51] Speaker 1: don't come up with original talking points. We know this
[5:06:53] Speaker 1: is not the case. And Neighborhood Advisory, thank you for
[5:06:58] Speaker 1: the one hundred dollars super chat, hugeb you let's get
[5:07:01] Speaker 1: some w's in a chat for Neighborhood Advisory. Thank you
[5:07:05] Speaker 1: says thank you for chatting Justin. Tonight was not the night,
[5:07:09] Speaker 1: but I will be back with the same stupid potonic
[5:07:11] Speaker 1: arguments for the gods and the one for now ROCKHRD
[5:07:15] Speaker 1: for Doug, and I'm definitely gay for Justin. Well, Lien,
[5:07:19] Speaker 1: you're in the right place if you're gay. For Justin,
[5:07:21] Speaker 1: we accept you here and I would love to hear
[5:07:25] Speaker 1: an argument for the platonistic deities. So it was good
[5:07:30] Speaker 1: to hear from you. We totally appreciate you come in
[5:07:33] Speaker 1: the chat with us and then also coming back with
[5:07:36] Speaker 1: a huge super chat. We appreciate that. Friend and Flunk
[5:07:41] Speaker 1: think you for the super just says what's white and
[5:07:42] Speaker 1: travels across the sky and a million miles per hour,
[5:07:45] Speaker 1: the coming of the Lord, wearing garden gloves for Doug
[5:07:48] Speaker 1: and waiters for sharing much love. Oh no, you've set
[5:07:58] Speaker 1: Sarah off.
[5:08:00] Speaker 3: I feel dirty just having read and heard that.
[5:08:03] Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, yeah, and it smears too. Remember the
[5:08:10] Speaker 1: globe is spinning, so it's just gonna, you know, chemtrails
[5:08:14] Speaker 1: the whole thing. I didn't, I didn't chat it. I'm
[5:08:19] Speaker 1: just following up. I mean realistically, I mean it's gonna
[5:08:22] Speaker 1: spread mat yeah mmmmm, certainly. And and remember, if you
[5:08:30] Speaker 1: didn't collect all the manna right away, what was left
[5:08:33] Speaker 1: over would like wood would rot and in turn to
[5:08:38] Speaker 1: you know, festering infections and whatnot. I'm the same Evans.
[5:08:43] Speaker 1: It's also your cheat sheet. Don't let me see column one,
[5:08:47] Speaker 1: nor open any links to row two. Please help. I
[5:08:50] Speaker 1: have conversations with several believers. I don't know what you
[5:08:54] Speaker 1: mean by let you see column one. I've got like
[5:08:59] Speaker 1: fifteen or twenty tabs on it, and every one of
[5:09:02] Speaker 1: them has multiple columns, so I guess I don't fully
[5:09:05] Speaker 1: understand what you mean. If you click on a single link,
[5:09:08] Speaker 1: I'll show you it's just going to open it. In
[5:09:11] Speaker 1: your web browser right so, like I've got tap number
[5:09:14] Speaker 1: one open, I'm going to click a link here on
[5:09:16] Speaker 1: deuteronomy right there, and by being abouda boom, you got
[5:09:20] Speaker 1: it open like I don't. So I may not understand
[5:09:22] Speaker 1: your question. If you're having trouble with the cheat sheet, though,
[5:09:25] Speaker 1: for sure, send me a message over email or on
[5:09:28] Speaker 1: discord and we'll work through it. We'll get you through it.
[5:09:30] Speaker 1: Friend helping Mega deconstructs is I want to throw it
[5:09:33] Speaker 1: out there justin that Checkers and Ruby are superior to cats,
[5:09:37] Speaker 1: like horizontal is superior to vertical.
[5:09:44] Speaker 23: Oh hang on, Checkers says, hello.
[5:09:52] Speaker 1: You know I condemned this super chat. Have you seen
[5:10:00] Speaker 1: this kitten? Look at this kitten?
[5:10:03] Speaker 7: I mean, the kitten is pretty damn cute.
[5:10:04] Speaker 18: And you know I will argue that.
[5:10:07] Speaker 1: I'm just saying I disavow, I disavow I think you're
[5:10:12] Speaker 1: a super chat. Reverend Nate says, I had two guys, serve.
[5:10:18] Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I had two guys. I served within the military.
[5:10:21] Speaker 1: Try and recruit me for your freemasons. They said, they
[5:10:24] Speaker 1: only require belief in a higher power. Even if you
[5:10:27] Speaker 1: just say energy. I passed on it. That's interesting. I
[5:10:31] Speaker 1: could just say energy, I could say quantum fluctuations and
[5:10:34] Speaker 1: get into get into the Freemasons. Fuck, I mean to
[5:10:38] Speaker 1: do it now I know, and now I have to write.
[5:10:42] Speaker 2: Shit.
[5:10:43] Speaker 1: I'll let you know. I gotta be honest. So I
[5:10:46] Speaker 1: really hope that there is, like there's a hat, a
[5:10:50] Speaker 1: cool hat that you get.
[5:10:52] Speaker 14: There's got to be a hat.
[5:10:54] Speaker 1: Gotta be a hat, right, the Pope gets the big
[5:10:56] Speaker 1: old fish hat and the bishops get a nice hat.
[5:10:58] Speaker 1: But like, if there's not a Freemason hat, I'll be
[5:11:01] Speaker 1: a little bit disappointed. Helping Mega comes a good.
[5:11:04] Speaker 23: Coins, yeah, sect coins that you pass to Like I
[5:11:09] Speaker 23: thinek there should be coins.
[5:11:11] Speaker 1: And then we can fulfill Revelation thirteen with the mark
[5:11:14] Speaker 1: of the Beast and make sure people can't buy or
[5:11:16] Speaker 1: sell because they need our coins. I am the Antichrist.
[5:11:21] Speaker 1: Okay cool. Helping Mega digs struct says, I love the
[5:11:24] Speaker 1: kitten cam though I know they're so cute. I got
[5:11:28] Speaker 1: one sleeping in my nap one sleeping on my desk. Unfortunately,
[5:11:31] Speaker 1: I've only got one kitten cam, so we can't show
[5:11:33] Speaker 1: them both. But they are cute, although they're both filthy, filthy,
[5:11:38] Speaker 1: stinky animals. That thought playing in the ashes of my
[5:11:41] Speaker 1: fireplace would be a good idea. Today they're playing in
[5:11:47] Speaker 1: the fireplace or playing in the litter box. I have
[5:11:50] Speaker 1: to bathe them like once a day. These cats are filthy,
[5:11:53] Speaker 1: but they're kittens. What are you gonna do? They don't
[5:11:55] Speaker 1: They don't know any better.
[5:11:56] Speaker 3: Right.
[5:11:58] Speaker 1: As the says, have you watched Dtor Stone? Are you
[5:12:02] Speaker 1: referring to the fake doctor Perry Stone?
[5:12:05] Speaker 3: Uh?
[5:12:06] Speaker 1: The the like want to be televangelists with a fake degree.
[5:12:09] Speaker 1: I have seen him. I don't know anything about doctor
[5:12:12] Speaker 1: Stone though. If there's like a real doctor Stone and
[5:12:15] Speaker 1: two donkeys, one Jesus amazing name does you share that
[5:12:20] Speaker 1: song list anywhere? It's in the discord?
[5:12:23] Speaker 2: Good.
[5:12:23] Speaker 1: I'm not maintaining an atheist song list.
[5:12:26] Speaker 15: This is not me.
[5:12:27] Speaker 1: I didn't ask to maintain a canonical song list for atheists.
[5:12:31] Speaker 1: I made a thread in the discord. You're welcome to
[5:12:33] Speaker 1: joint discord. Add your songs to the list, and we'll
[5:12:37] Speaker 1: we'll maintain it that way. And Evan says sweet.
[5:12:43] Speaker 3: Who uh Shelley France And yeah, she has the atheist album.
[5:12:53] Speaker 1: So she is definitely on the list.
[5:12:56] Speaker 3: All right.
[5:12:56] Speaker 1: Last super chat from Ben Hook's Good to see it.
[5:12:58] Speaker 1: Buddy says horizontal works best for cheat sheet on the phone.
[5:13:02] Speaker 1: This is actually a really good point, Ben Hooks. If
[5:13:05] Speaker 1: you like the cheat sheet, like using the cheat sheet,
[5:13:09] Speaker 1: I would watch the streaming horizontal with the cheat sheet open.
[5:13:12] Speaker 1: That's what I would do. But yeah, big W, big
[5:13:16] Speaker 1: big w for using the cheat sheet during the live stream.
[5:13:20] Speaker 1: It's fun because you need to cheat sheet and try
[5:13:22] Speaker 1: to guess, like what argument is just going to use
[5:13:24] Speaker 1: on this guy? Because I mean a lot of my
[5:13:25] Speaker 1: arguments I reach on over to the cheat sheet for
[5:13:30] Speaker 1: a quick access because sometimes I forget the verses. But
[5:13:32] Speaker 1: you know, either way, friends, we almost we are so
[5:13:36] Speaker 1: close to getting Leaving Faith at ten thousand I see
[5:13:39] Speaker 1: nine point nine seven thousand subscribers. We only need like
[5:13:43] Speaker 1: thirty more. We need thirty subscribers at Leaving Faith on YouTube.
[5:13:48] Speaker 1: They get her over the ten thousand dollars markets today
[5:13:51] Speaker 1: to day. Are we gonna do it tonight? Friends? I'm
[5:13:55] Speaker 1: about to do it on the call right now? Oh
[5:13:58] Speaker 1: my gosh, where's my rag? I need a rag?
[5:14:06] Speaker 23: Well, justin I think that last comment when you when
[5:14:08] Speaker 23: they were saying having it horizontal when it's on your phone. Also,
[5:14:13] Speaker 23: someone's just trying to view the cheat sheet on their
[5:14:16] Speaker 23: phone all the time, Like maybe that's why someone had
[5:14:19] Speaker 23: trouble seeing some of the tabs, like if they're not
[5:14:21] Speaker 23: opening it up on their laptop.
[5:14:23] Speaker 5: Like, I don't know.
[5:14:25] Speaker 23: I think it's probably pretty hard to look at Excel
[5:14:27] Speaker 23: on your phone, would be my gud.
[5:14:29] Speaker 1: That's a good point. The cheat sheet is not well
[5:14:31] Speaker 1: designed for phones, although I have used my phone with it.
[5:14:35] Speaker 1: But to be fair, like it's a pretty it's a
[5:14:38] Speaker 1: it's a girthy cheat sheet. I don't know if you're
[5:14:40] Speaker 1: gonna like the phone is the best way to view it.
[5:14:43] Speaker 1: Ar caught that that is what she said. Oh boy,
[5:14:52] Speaker 1: I can't let go. I just okay, guys, we're at
[5:14:57] Speaker 1: nine point nine nine thousand. We need ten more. That's it.
[5:15:01] Speaker 1: We just need ten more subs. Tonight's tonight. We're gonna
[5:15:04] Speaker 1: do it. We we must get it. I'm gonna refresh
[5:15:08] Speaker 1: the browser. We're gonna do it. Come on nine point
[5:15:11] Speaker 1: nine nine still, guys, we gotta do it. Let's do it.
[5:15:19] Speaker 1: If Evan thank you for the additional superchest says yeah
[5:15:25] Speaker 1: the Moose Lodge. Let me join with P one. I
[5:15:29] Speaker 1: don't know what p one means. Without my ancestry and
[5:15:32] Speaker 1: would not exist.
[5:15:33] Speaker 3: P two.
[5:15:34] Speaker 1: Without humanity before them, I would not exist, and neither
[5:15:37] Speaker 1: would you conclusion humanity in our supreme being. So this
[5:15:40] Speaker 1: is a syllogism. So he says, yeah, the moose lodge,
[5:15:44] Speaker 1: let me join. Period. Oh, I'm sorry. You used this
[5:15:49] Speaker 1: syllogism to get your join to get joined up. Okay,
[5:15:53] Speaker 1: so this was the syllogism you use. Premise one. Without
[5:15:57] Speaker 1: my ancestry, I would not exist. Premise too. Without humanity
[5:16:00] Speaker 1: before them, I would not exist, and neither would you
[5:16:02] Speaker 1: conclusion humanity is our supreme being. Gotcha? And then then
[5:16:08] Speaker 1: you said, okay, I believe in some kind of higher
[5:16:10] Speaker 1: power which is humanity, and said okay, we'll let you
[5:16:13] Speaker 1: fair enough. Interesting and SDA has got clarifications said, Doctor
[5:16:17] Speaker 1: Stone is an anime show about science, highly recommended. I
[5:16:20] Speaker 1: would not have known that. Guys, if you know anything
[5:16:23] Speaker 1: about me is that I'm not the type of guy
[5:16:24] Speaker 1: you would expect to watch anime, because I don't watch anime.
[5:16:28] Speaker 1: That being said, I don't play games, I don't funk around,
[5:16:31] Speaker 1: don't play games. Thank you for the clarification, though, inventor,
[5:16:36] Speaker 1: and guess what just happened? And John con we did
[5:16:49] Speaker 1: it ten thousand, finally hit the milestone. Hell yeah, that's
[5:16:55] Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. Just next, So yay, thank you
[5:17:00] Speaker 1: for everyone was subbed. We'll make it happen. We're gonna
[5:17:03] Speaker 1: make it happen, right, friend, who's live right now that
[5:17:07] Speaker 1: we can go raige? Surely somebody's live right now? Let
[5:17:11] Speaker 1: me see bump bump Oh Mesos live. Oh yeah, all right,
[5:17:19] Speaker 1: we're gonna guys, we're gonna go raid do that.
[5:17:22] Speaker 3: So stream.
[5:17:24] Speaker 1: He's live on TikTok at his usual uh mezzo account
[5:17:29] Speaker 1: me zz oh, I think he goes by mesosphere still
[5:17:33] Speaker 1: and he's live on YouTube right now at the Deconstruction junction.
[5:17:40] Speaker 1: Uh it's at Deconstruction junction if I remember correctly, Yeah,
[5:17:44] Speaker 1: at Deconstruction Junction. All one word. Mesos live right now.
[5:17:49] Speaker 1: He's got one hundred people watching. No reason why we
[5:17:51] Speaker 1: can't send it at least a couple hundred people over
[5:17:53] Speaker 1: there and get a couple of hundred people watching. And
[5:17:56] Speaker 1: he's he's actually got a new format. He's actually doing
[5:17:58] Speaker 1: a vertical slash wide format right now so that the
[5:18:02] Speaker 1: comments aren't covering the screen. So now the YouTube comments
[5:18:06] Speaker 1: and the TikTok comments aren't going to be fighting with
[5:18:08] Speaker 1: each other, which is way better than how it was,
[5:18:11] Speaker 1: so listen. Friends, run over to Mezzo's live stream at
[5:18:15] Speaker 1: the Deconstruction Junction. I'll see you over there that we'll
[5:18:18] Speaker 1: do some chripping in the comments. Sarah Jim, thank you
[5:18:20] Speaker 1: so much for joining me. It was delightful to have
[5:18:23] Speaker 1: both of you up here. Well, thank you so much
[5:18:25] Speaker 1: for having me absolutely Friends, have a great, great night.

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