# 2025-07-29 LIVE DEBATE \[Jesus was a Liar and a Fraud\]

An episode of [Deconstruction Zone](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1837730286), 28 Sep 2025, 1 h 57 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/67798419/2025_07_29_live_debate_jesus_was_a_liar_and_a_fraud.mp3

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## Transcript

[0:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, that was it. Weird.
[0:05] Speaker 2: I have to turn my virtual camera off to start
[0:07] Speaker 2: to stream. But either way, we should be ready to
[0:09] Speaker 2: rock and roll now. I think everything should be working
[0:13] Speaker 2: for us, so it should be a lot of fun
[0:16] Speaker 2: we're doing. We're doing a classic here, so we haven't
[0:21] Speaker 2: done this one in a hot minute, and it has
[0:23] Speaker 2: been a minute, friends, so it would be a good time.
[0:27] Speaker 1: Anyways, welcome in.
[0:28] Speaker 2: While we're getting started, I'm going to go ahead and
[0:31] Speaker 2: grab a couple of super chats. We'll wait for our
[0:33] Speaker 2: guest queue to populate. If you're watching on YouTube, there's
[0:37] Speaker 2: a link in the description of the video, and you
[0:39] Speaker 2: were watching on TikTok, you know how to join. Hit
[0:41] Speaker 2: that guest request button. We've got a a super chat
[0:45] Speaker 2: from Mediocre says enjoying your channel, Exit Jesus with exit Jesus.
[0:52] Speaker 2: That's a good, good usage of words. I really do
[0:54] Speaker 2: appreciate that. That's good. That is good. And also we've
[0:58] Speaker 2: got a super chat from the Bad Weekend or one
[1:01] Speaker 2: Bad Weekend says great show with Plant Peterson. Happy birthday
[1:04] Speaker 2: to Junior. Hey, thanks so much. I appreciate that. Yeah,
[1:07] Speaker 2: and today is my son's birthday, so big w there.
[1:10] Speaker 2: But Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate the birthday
[1:13] Speaker 2: wishes and I had a great time hosting with Peterson.
[1:16] Speaker 2: If you've been around TikTok for a long time, you
[1:19] Speaker 2: already know who who Peterson is. And David, thank you
[1:23] Speaker 2: so much for the twenty dour superchat. Friend, that's awesome.
[1:26] Speaker 2: That's huge, says Joe from your prior shows. Should be
[1:29] Speaker 2: ashamed of himself as one who uses language in his profession.
[1:33] Speaker 2: It is so frustrating. I'm embarrassed for him and his
[1:36] Speaker 2: inability to understand simple words. He seems a dummy or
[1:41] Speaker 2: a liar.
[1:42] Speaker 1: I agree with you.
[1:44] Speaker 2: I think it might be both, though, like if I
[1:45] Speaker 2: had the wager, I'm gonna go with both. He's not
[1:49] Speaker 2: bright and he's also a liar. All right, let me
[1:54] Speaker 2: grab I got three more super chats. We'll get our
[1:56] Speaker 2: first guest in here. Nate, thank you so much for
[1:58] Speaker 2: the twenty dollars super chat. That huge, w says rock
[2:02] Speaker 2: Hard for Doug. Happy belated b day to your son. Well,
[2:04] Speaker 2: thank you. It is one day yesterday was his birthday.
[2:08] Speaker 2: So a question, are there any other passages like John
[2:10] Speaker 2: eight that are missing from early manuscripts, especially versus that
[2:14] Speaker 2: believers like to use to defend their nice version of Christianity. Well,
[2:18] Speaker 2: there are some verses that seem to be missing. A
[2:22] Speaker 2: pretty famous passage is in Corinthians fourteen where Paul basically
[2:27] Speaker 2: tells the women to you know, shut up and sit down.
[2:31] Speaker 2: That passage doesn't appear to be in all of the
[2:34] Speaker 2: early manuscripts. It seems to have maybe originated as a
[2:38] Speaker 2: marginal note and then later found its way into the text.
[2:41] Speaker 2: And also Nano for Super says reading the Bible aloud
[2:46] Speaker 2: can get you shut down.
[2:47] Speaker 1: It sure can.
[2:48] Speaker 2: If you're on TikTok and you're reading that Bible out loud,
[2:51] Speaker 2: you might have some problems. There's some words in there
[2:53] Speaker 2: you can't stay on TikTok and Ikopod great to see
[2:57] Speaker 2: your friend, guys. If you're not fond my friend Ikapod,
[3:00] Speaker 2: yeah on YouTube, make sure you do. He's awesome. And
[3:03] Speaker 2: just for fun, go out and buy his old music
[3:05] Speaker 2: albums from when he was a Christian rap artist, which
[3:09] Speaker 2: is that's try yet.
[3:12] Speaker 1: That I hear in my mouth.
[3:13] Speaker 2: My friend Nikopod here used to be in a rap
[3:16] Speaker 2: group called the Cross Movement, which I owned the CDs
[3:20] Speaker 2: of and I still do. I go out, give him
[3:23] Speaker 2: a listen, subscribe to the the YouTube.
[3:27] Speaker 1: He's a great guy though, great guy.
[3:28] Speaker 2: All right. Last one, last super chat from our friend
[3:31] Speaker 2: coach Frankie. Thank you so much for the point of supertest,
[3:34] Speaker 2: says hey, justin sorry if you get this question often,
[3:36] Speaker 2: but can you explain where the Bible was originally found? Well,
[3:41] Speaker 2: I think the problem with the question is that the
[3:44] Speaker 2: Bible wasn't originally found. There's like, no, like, we don't
[3:48] Speaker 2: have an original Bible, if that's what you're asking. Like,
[3:52] Speaker 2: the oldest complete Bible is typically referred to as like
[3:56] Speaker 2: Codex Sinaticus and Codex Synantiicus is roughly fourth maybe fifth century,
[4:03] Speaker 2: depending on how you date it. So that's like the
[4:05] Speaker 2: earliest complete Bible, and it has some books in it
[4:07] Speaker 2: obviously that some people don't like. That being the case,
[4:13] Speaker 2: that is the oldest one we have. Also, give me
[4:17] Speaker 2: one second to double check our vertical stream on YouTube.
[4:20] Speaker 2: I just want to make sure it's up and running,
[4:21] Speaker 2: because I pulled my phone out to see if it's
[4:23] Speaker 2: running on my phone and it doesn't look like it is.
[4:26] Speaker 2: I don't know why, fucking obs uh. Check on the
[4:35] Speaker 2: internet browser here at least and see if it works
[4:37] Speaker 2: on the Internet browser.
[4:41] Speaker 1: It says it's not live.
[4:43] Speaker 2: Of course, so everyone ever gonna see me on the
[4:46] Speaker 2: horizontal stream, they can see me on TikTok. Can't thee
[4:50] Speaker 2: a damn thing on vertical stream? Great fucking fucking great.
[4:55] Speaker 2: Love that love that for you.
[4:58] Speaker 1: Cool?
[5:00] Speaker 2: Okay, let me let me just get it. Get here,
[5:02] Speaker 2: get the stream key. See why the stream key didn't work.
[5:06] Speaker 2: I'm sure that's the problem. Gotta turn that off, fix
[5:14] Speaker 2: my stream key. Ridiculous, ridiculous. This was the one benefit
[5:20] Speaker 2: of streaming with stream labs. You didn't have to worry
[5:22] Speaker 2: about all these stream keys. But apparently, uh, okay, it's
[5:30] Speaker 2: the same stream key I hit go. Why aren't you going?
[5:35] Speaker 2: That's the question, that's the question. Give me one second, friends,
[5:40] Speaker 2: try to make sure that we get our vertical stream running.
[5:48] Speaker 2: Having a little bit of lag, we'll see if it
[5:51] Speaker 2: if it evens out. Yeah, I don't see the vertical
[5:56] Speaker 2: stream going live. Oh, because I'm a fucking idiot. Hold on,
[6:04] Speaker 2: I think I hit the wrong go button. That's just
[6:09] Speaker 2: I think I just streamed to the unapologetic live show
[6:11] Speaker 2: for the last two minutes. Sorry BLT, sorry, Ian, And
[6:20] Speaker 2: we've got a weird stream now on the unapologetic channel,
[6:22] Speaker 2: we've got to go take down.
[6:27] Speaker 1: Oh, welcome in everybody.
[6:30] Speaker 2: Welcome in friends, all right, everybody on the vertical stream
[6:35] Speaker 2: should be able to see me.
[6:36] Speaker 3: Now.
[6:37] Speaker 1: I apologize. It was a little bit delayed.
[6:40] Speaker 3: That's my bad.
[6:41] Speaker 1: Apologize for that.
[6:43] Speaker 2: I hit the wrong button and I sent it to
[6:46] Speaker 2: send it to the wrong YouTube channel.
[6:48] Speaker 1: And now I've got to go over.
[6:51] Speaker 2: Gotta go to our other channel and dump it.
[6:57] Speaker 1: Fantastic. I'm gonna do one of the thing real quick.
[7:00] Speaker 4: Though.
[7:00] Speaker 2: One other thing I got to I got to take
[7:03] Speaker 2: care of the resolution maybe on our vertical camera. The
[7:07] Speaker 2: vertical camera resolution looks a little bit laggy. I don't
[7:11] Speaker 2: think the YouTube stream is lagging at all, but it
[7:13] Speaker 2: looks like the it does look like the TikTok studio
[7:18] Speaker 2: might be a little bit laggy. Give me just one second.
[7:30] Speaker 1: Oh well, you can't change up with our life. So
[7:32] Speaker 1: we're good. Our fucking run with it. Welcome in, friends,
[7:35] Speaker 1: It's great to see you.
[7:36] Speaker 2: For those on the vertical stream, I apologize if you
[7:39] Speaker 2: didn't get to see the couple super chests we read
[7:41] Speaker 2: before the vertical stream went live. We do have a
[7:43] Speaker 2: super chat from jm R. Thank you so much, Jammer
[7:46] Speaker 2: for the fifty dollars super chest. That's huge, says, could
[7:49] Speaker 2: you make a sound argument that it could be possibly
[7:51] Speaker 2: a good be I'm sorry, could possibly be good to
[7:55] Speaker 2: suspend your moral belief two to three minutes tops, two
[7:59] Speaker 2: full HD smack the shit out of someone if it
[8:02] Speaker 2: reduced overall harm in the world. Just spitballing here, let's
[8:05] Speaker 2: say slavery apologize. So yeah, okay, So if you're like
[8:09] Speaker 2: a utilitarian right you would say that sometimes you do
[8:13] Speaker 2: things that are that are not morally sound, and you
[8:16] Speaker 2: do them because it benefits you in the long run
[8:20] Speaker 2: or it reduces the amount of overall harm in society,
[8:25] Speaker 2: and so you would definitely.
[8:27] Speaker 1: Say that that's what you know, so you can definitely
[8:29] Speaker 1: do that. Thank you for the hat. I appreciate that.
[8:32] Speaker 2: Now the other thing too, let me grab I'm gonna
[8:35] Speaker 2: grab two superchats that were missed because the vertical stream
[8:37] Speaker 2: wasn't showing, and then we'll get our first guest in here, David.
[8:41] Speaker 2: Thank you for the twenty hours superchat. If you're still watching, David,
[8:44] Speaker 2: thank you so so much. It says Joe from prior
[8:46] Speaker 2: shows should be ashamed of himself as one who uses
[8:49] Speaker 2: the language in his profession. It is so frustrating. I'm
[8:52] Speaker 2: embarrassed for him and his inability to understand simple words.
[8:55] Speaker 2: He seems like a dummian.
[8:56] Speaker 1: A liar.
[8:57] Speaker 2: And David, I agree with your friend and our last
[9:00] Speaker 2: one we saw from Nate ceesays rock hard for Doug agreed.
[9:03] Speaker 2: Happy belated birthday to your son. I think question, are
[9:06] Speaker 2: there any passages like John eight that are missing from
[9:08] Speaker 2: early manuscripts, especially versus that believers like to use to
[9:11] Speaker 2: defend their nice version of Christianity. There are a lot
[9:15] Speaker 2: of passages I could point to, but as I said prior,
[9:18] Speaker 2: the one that comes to mind the most is in
[9:21] Speaker 2: Corinthians fourteen, when Paul beerates the women.
[9:25] Speaker 1: That passage does not appear to be original. All right,
[9:27] Speaker 1: let me grab our first guest here.
[9:30] Speaker 2: The first one in as far as I can tell,
[9:33] Speaker 2: looks like Kim and then Daniel. So let me grab Kim.
[9:39] Speaker 1: How are you doing, Kim?
[9:41] Speaker 4: Good? How are you doing doing well?
[9:43] Speaker 1: Thank you for asking? Kim? Are you at least eighteen?
[9:46] Speaker 4: Yes, I'm eighteen.
[9:48] Speaker 1: Awesome man. Are you a believer?
[9:51] Speaker 4: Yes?
[9:51] Speaker 1: I am cool. I assume you're believer in Jesus right.
[9:57] Speaker 4: Somewhere somewhere.
[10:00] Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean.
[10:03] Speaker 4: I was on the other day. I believe some of
[10:04] Speaker 4: the stuff steganography.
[10:08] Speaker 2: Do you agree or disagree with the claim on the screen?
[10:13] Speaker 6: All right, that's what I wanted to talk about it.
[10:14] Speaker 6: I was hoping to talk about the Gospel of Judas.
[10:16] Speaker 6: So I believe.
[10:19] Speaker 2: I guess what I'm asking about is the claim on
[10:22] Speaker 2: the screen. Do you agree or disagree with that?
[10:24] Speaker 4: What is on there? I chan't see anything.
[10:27] Speaker 2: Oh sorry, I assumed you had the live stream open.
[10:29] Speaker 2: It says Jesus was a liar and her fraud proved
[10:31] Speaker 2: me wrong.
[10:32] Speaker 4: Yeah, that's why I wanted to talk about the Gospel
[10:35] Speaker 4: of Judas.
[10:35] Speaker 1: Sorry, okay, So do you agree or disagree?
[10:39] Speaker 2: Though, I guess I just I disagree. I'm so sorry, gotcha? Okay,
[10:43] Speaker 2: So where do you want to start? I can show
[10:46] Speaker 2: you where he was a liar, and I can show
[10:48] Speaker 2: you where he was a fraud.
[10:50] Speaker 4: Are you familiar with the Gospel of Judas?
[10:52] Speaker 1: Yeah? I read it when I was first published.
[10:55] Speaker 4: Okay, I mean in there, he said, truly, I say
[10:58] Speaker 4: to you, none of them, no one of your generations,
[11:02] Speaker 4: that people will know me.
[11:05] Speaker 2: He said that, why do I care what the gospel
[11:08] Speaker 2: juice says.
[11:10] Speaker 4: Because it talks about never win, soad Claus and go back.
[11:14] Speaker 2: But why do I care what's in that gospel?
[11:21] Speaker 4: Because he's telling me the truth in it.
[11:23] Speaker 1: How do you know?
[11:25] Speaker 2: How do you know he even said those words that
[11:27] Speaker 2: are recorded for him in there.
[11:30] Speaker 6: The reason why I know is because never win sod
[11:32] Speaker 6: Claus never means rebel, sod class means fool.
[11:37] Speaker 2: Right, But what I asked him is the words that
[11:38] Speaker 2: are recorded in that gospel.
[11:40] Speaker 1: How do you know that those words respect?
[11:42] Speaker 4: I don't.
[11:43] Speaker 6: I don't like I Like I said, I believe a
[11:46] Speaker 6: lot of it, said genography. So the truth is still
[11:49] Speaker 6: in there regardless of whether the actual story is.
[11:51] Speaker 4: True or not.
[11:52] Speaker 2: Okay, So you don't know if the story is true
[11:54] Speaker 2: or not.
[11:55] Speaker 6: Yeah, And then to be honest, I don't know whether
[11:57] Speaker 6: Jesus was a dad or this or that. Like I don't,
[11:59] Speaker 6: I don't know any of the fact. What I do
[12:01] Speaker 6: know is the steganography has been there since since it's scenario,
[12:05] Speaker 6: and it keeps being passed on, you know, like songs
[12:08] Speaker 6: are just remashes of older songs and movies, it's just
[12:12] Speaker 6: an everything's a rerun basically.
[12:15] Speaker 1: Yeah, well I don't. I don't think the Bible is
[12:18] Speaker 1: uh stenography.
[12:19] Speaker 2: I don't think the Gospel of Judas is.
[12:24] Speaker 1: Another another can you.
[12:26] Speaker 2: What I can tell you is that what we have
[12:27] Speaker 2: from history is that stenography typically is like coherent, like
[12:33] Speaker 2: you can tell when somebody is doing stenography.
[12:36] Speaker 1: You don't have to guess at it. And the probably
[12:38] Speaker 1: have with.
[12:39] Speaker 4: The contextraphy not straphy.
[12:44] Speaker 1: The stenography is recording. Yeah, it's not.
[12:50] Speaker 6: It's it's not supposed to be known because if people
[12:53] Speaker 6: know the system breaks out.
[12:55] Speaker 1: Well, then it's then it's a useless book.
[12:57] Speaker 4: Cool, all right, it's not useless until let's the truth.
[13:02] Speaker 1: It doesn't.
[13:02] Speaker 2: All right, We're gonna move on to an adult I think,
[13:05] Speaker 2: and see if we can get the ball rolling on
[13:07] Speaker 2: the clane that's actually on the screen. About that, the
[13:11] Speaker 2: TikTok stream is a little bit laggy. Maybe, guys, let
[13:14] Speaker 2: me know if the TikTok stream is lagging for you.
[13:16] Speaker 2: I don't think the YouTube streams are lagging, but the
[13:18] Speaker 2: TikTok stream looks like it's laggy a little bit. I
[13:22] Speaker 2: don't know if there's much I could do about.
[13:23] Speaker 1: That at the moment.
[13:26] Speaker 2: All right, let me grab oh, we had a guest
[13:28] Speaker 2: on TikTok. They bounced a little bit laggy. TikTok is
[13:31] Speaker 2: a glitchen. Yeah, it's fine for you. Okay, all right,
[13:35] Speaker 2: let's grab Jacob from the queue. Jacob, are you with us?
[13:46] Speaker 1: How I'm trying to hang up?
[13:50] Speaker 4: I'm trying to plug into my paracross right, hear me?
[13:56] Speaker 2: All right, your connection is a little bit laggy. Do
[14:03] Speaker 2: you have Wi Fi?
[14:06] Speaker 1: I do?
[14:09] Speaker 4: I'm not how about to do this?
[14:14] Speaker 2: And I think it's okay? All right, So Jacob, are
[14:19] Speaker 2: you at least eighteen?
[14:20] Speaker 1: And are you a believer?
[14:23] Speaker 5: Dude?
[14:24] Speaker 7: Yeah?
[14:24] Speaker 4: In both twenty four Catholic. I'm European and I've been
[14:30] Speaker 4: watching your channel for a little bit of bit, so
[14:34] Speaker 4: I saw.
[14:36] Speaker 2: Last all right, right, I think your I think your
[14:44] Speaker 2: earbuds are just throwing your audio quality. You get a
[14:46] Speaker 2: lot of like echoing and doubling on the audio.
[14:52] Speaker 8: All right, hang on, I'll hang up and reconnect, all right, sure,
[14:58] Speaker 8: all right, all right, see if this works.
[15:09] Speaker 2: I think his audio sounded okay before he put his
[15:12] Speaker 2: ear ear pods in. I think it was the EarPods
[15:15] Speaker 2: that messed him up. Sometimes bluetooth doesn't work very quickly.
[15:23] Speaker 2: Welcome back to Jacob. Oh, maybe his connection is still connecting.
[15:27] Speaker 2: I don't think he's got good, good, good WiFi over there, Jacob.
[15:39] Speaker 1: Blop blope.
[15:43] Speaker 2: No, Okay, well, I guess we'll I guess we'll move on. Friends,
[15:48] Speaker 2: if you're watching on TikTok, we'd love to talk to you.
[15:51] Speaker 2: The guest request is at the bottom of the screen,
[15:55] Speaker 2: and we got a couple of people in the YouTube queue.
[15:57] Speaker 2: We'll grab those next. That looks like uh phill oh,
[16:00] Speaker 2: great to see you, friend, it says Justin. You have
[16:03] Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Justin you have taken these debates to a
[16:07] Speaker 2: whole new level. Love you and everything you do. Rock
[16:09] Speaker 2: hard for Doug, Well, thank you, Phil, I appreciate that.
[16:13] Speaker 2: Big w for PHILM. And also Josh says in Doug
[16:16] Speaker 2: we crust. Yes absolutely it. May the courts be with you,
[16:20] Speaker 2: Josh absolutely, And Triumph says when's a good time to
[16:24] Speaker 2: request up four questions? Well, typically during like a Q
[16:28] Speaker 2: and ah. This is not a Q and A, this
[16:32] Speaker 2: is a debate. You're in a debate, so not really
[16:35] Speaker 2: great time for it, people says cook it with DZ
[16:38] Speaker 2: much love rock hard.
[16:39] Speaker 1: For Doug, Well, thank you so so much.
[16:41] Speaker 2: Beboop. I appreciate that. All right, Jacob did not come back.
[16:44] Speaker 2: I guess we'll just have to move on to the
[16:46] Speaker 2: next Jacob. If you if you get a better connection
[16:49] Speaker 2: and you can make your way back here, I'll prioritize you.
[16:52] Speaker 2: I'll put you at the top of the queue. I
[16:54] Speaker 2: won't make you wait in line. So come when you
[16:57] Speaker 2: get a chance coming back. Well, we'll get you figured out.
[17:04] Speaker 2: Whatcoman's doing. Dennis Dennis, Dennis, Dennis, does your equipment work?
[17:24] Speaker 1: Dennis?
[17:34] Speaker 2: Okay, all right, Dennis, gotta go, come on back later, Dennis.
[17:42] Speaker 2: All right, let's grab uh grab the next one. Wocoman
[17:49] Speaker 2: dougism Oh, what's going on?
[17:52] Speaker 4: Jameson?
[17:53] Speaker 1: I Dohn, I'm doing good, are you? Dennis? Are you
[17:56] Speaker 1: at least eighteen?
[17:59] Speaker 3: Yes?
[17:59] Speaker 9: I am made see now, I believe I just wanted
[18:01] Speaker 9: to come in, you know, shoot ship with you and
[18:03] Speaker 9: tell you doing great job.
[18:05] Speaker 4: You can very fully.
[18:07] Speaker 1: To dousm Rock Well, that is good. Nice to hear.
[18:12] Speaker 2: I appreciate that, but we are looking for debates. Dougism Rocks, Oh, yeah,
[18:17] Speaker 2: but appreciate the kind words.
[18:19] Speaker 1: Man.
[18:21] Speaker 7: All right, well, English can't wait to see what are
[18:26] Speaker 7: you going.
[18:26] Speaker 1: To put it up? And bade all right.
[18:35] Speaker 2: I guess we'll grab Obi one from our TikTok you.
[18:41] Speaker 1: We'll be one.
[18:42] Speaker 3: How you doing pretty good? How are you doing good?
[18:45] Speaker 2: Thanks for asking Obi one? Are you at least eighteen?
[18:49] Speaker 2: And are you a believer?
[18:51] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[18:52] Speaker 4: Cool?
[18:53] Speaker 1: I assume you're Christian? Right?
[18:55] Speaker 3: Mm hmm?
[18:56] Speaker 1: Awesome?
[18:56] Speaker 2: And do you agree or disagree with the statement on
[18:59] Speaker 2: the screen?
[19:01] Speaker 3: I would definitely disagree.
[19:04] Speaker 2: Do you want me to start with the liar part
[19:06] Speaker 2: or the fraud part?
[19:09] Speaker 3: I guess the liar part.
[19:11] Speaker 2: Sure, all right, let's start with an easy one. We're
[19:16] Speaker 2: gonna go to John chapter seven, and I'm gonna show
[19:20] Speaker 2: you something that's interesting.
[19:23] Speaker 1: It's an interesting passage.
[19:24] Speaker 2: I think a lot of people are sleeping on the passage,
[19:26] Speaker 2: but I don't think they should. All right, and you
[19:35] Speaker 2: should be able to see what's on my screen. I'm
[19:38] Speaker 2: gonna show you my browser. So this is in John seven.
[19:43] Speaker 2: Let me grab verse nine and include it. So in
[19:46] Speaker 2: terms of going to the festival, oh shure, I need
[19:52] Speaker 2: maybe seven as well. All right, Jesus tells the disciples.
[20:01] Speaker 2: He says, go to the festival yourselves. Then he says,
[20:05] Speaker 2: I'm not going to this festival for my time has
[20:08] Speaker 2: not yet fully come. After saying this, he remained in Galilee,
[20:13] Speaker 2: But after his brothers had gone to the festival, he
[20:16] Speaker 2: also went, not publicly, but as it were, in secret,
[20:21] Speaker 2: So he lied to his disciples.
[20:30] Speaker 3: Could you go up to the to the verse I
[20:33] Speaker 3: guess eight it is? Or verse nine?
[20:35] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[20:35] Speaker 2: I think seven is probably where you want to start.
[20:38] Speaker 3: Yeah, the world? Okay, right?
[20:48] Speaker 1: And then he ends up going anyways.
[20:52] Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe it wasn't time for him to go to
[20:54] Speaker 3: the festival with them. Maybe yet a later time it
[20:57] Speaker 3: was better for him to go in secret.
[20:59] Speaker 1: Sure, but he did he liar?
[21:00] Speaker 2: Did he change his mind because it sounds like he lied.
[21:06] Speaker 3: I wouldn't call it a lie. I would just say
[21:09] Speaker 3: it wasn't his time to go with them, but at
[21:11] Speaker 3: a later time it was better for him to go
[21:13] Speaker 3: in secret.
[21:14] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[21:14] Speaker 2: But the reason why he chose not to go is
[21:17] Speaker 2: it says my time has not fully come, meaning it's
[21:19] Speaker 2: you know, it's not time for me to get hung up.
[21:24] Speaker 3: Sure right, Yeah, I don't see how this makes him
[21:30] Speaker 3: a liar.
[21:31] Speaker 2: Well, did he say something that was true or not true?
[21:35] Speaker 3: Well, he was saying that it wasn't time for him
[21:37] Speaker 3: to go, and then I guess at some point later
[21:41] Speaker 3: it was time for him to go.
[21:43] Speaker 2: No, he didn't say now it's not my time to go.
[21:45] Speaker 2: He says, I am not going to this festival.
[21:50] Speaker 3: For my time has not fully come. Right, So he.
[21:53] Speaker 2: Says I'm not going, and then he gives you the
[21:55] Speaker 2: reason why he's not going. He didn't say I'm not
[21:58] Speaker 2: going right now.
[22:00] Speaker 3: But then but then afterward it was time for him
[22:03] Speaker 3: to go.
[22:04] Speaker 2: No, we'll try this again. His statement was, I am
[22:07] Speaker 2: not going to this festival. His reason is because my
[22:11] Speaker 2: time is not fully come. Okay, So the statement I'm
[22:17] Speaker 2: not going to the festival means he's not going to
[22:20] Speaker 2: the festival.
[22:21] Speaker 3: But the reason why is because his time hadn't fully come.
[22:25] Speaker 2: Yes, the reason is irrelevant though the statement is standalone,
[22:29] Speaker 2: I am not going to this festival.
[22:32] Speaker 3: Because my time has not fully come.
[22:35] Speaker 1: But he did go to the festival, to.
[22:37] Speaker 3: The festival, it was time for him to go to
[22:40] Speaker 3: the festival. So I don't I don't see the problem.
[22:42] Speaker 1: I think you do.
[22:43] Speaker 2: Let's let's try to be honest with it. So what
[22:45] Speaker 2: he says is I am not going to this festival.
[22:49] Speaker 2: Does he say I'm going later or does he say
[22:51] Speaker 2: I'm not going.
[22:53] Speaker 3: He says, I'm not going for my time has not
[22:55] Speaker 3: fully come.
[22:56] Speaker 1: Okay.
[22:56] Speaker 2: And when you say that you're not going, does it
[22:59] Speaker 2: mean that you're not not going or that you're going.
[23:02] Speaker 3: Well, there's a reason why he's not going, because.
[23:06] Speaker 2: Trigan, when you say I'm not going to the festival,
[23:08] Speaker 2: does it mean you're going or not going?
[23:11] Speaker 3: Means he's not going because his time had not yet
[23:14] Speaker 3: fully come.
[23:15] Speaker 2: Right, Okay, So when he says I'm not going to
[23:17] Speaker 2: the festival, that means he lied because later he did
[23:21] Speaker 2: go to the festival.
[23:23] Speaker 3: How do you know it wasn't time then for him
[23:25] Speaker 3: to go.
[23:25] Speaker 2: It doesn't matter he says, I am not going. That's
[23:30] Speaker 2: a statement about no the reasons irrelevant. We're talking about
[23:33] Speaker 2: the statement. The statement is I am not going.
[23:38] Speaker 3: But he does have to finish.
[23:40] Speaker 1: I don't actually if I said I'm not going to Walmart.
[23:44] Speaker 1: If I said if I said I'm not.
[23:47] Speaker 2: Going to Walmart today because I don't want to go
[23:51] Speaker 2: to Walmart, and then later I go to Walmart, that's
[23:55] Speaker 2: a lie.
[23:56] Speaker 1: It's either a lie.
[23:57] Speaker 3: It would be like saying I'm not going to Walmart
[24:02] Speaker 3: today because it's raining, and then sometime later the rain
[24:05] Speaker 3: stops and you do end up going to Walmart because
[24:07] Speaker 3: the reason why is no longer applicable.
[24:11] Speaker 2: Okay, So his time did fully come, then he was
[24:14] Speaker 2: ready to get crucified like an hour.
[24:16] Speaker 3: Later that festival.
[24:18] Speaker 2: Okay, No, he didn't say anything about time to go
[24:20] Speaker 2: to the festival. Is my time has not fully come,
[24:22] Speaker 2: which is a phrase he uses in the Gospels to
[24:25] Speaker 2: declare his crucifixion. His time fully coming has nothing to
[24:33] Speaker 2: do with whether or not he's going to the festival.
[24:36] Speaker 2: I mean, it has to do with him not going
[24:38] Speaker 2: because his time hasn't come.
[24:42] Speaker 3: Right. But then after his brothers had gone to the festival,
[24:45] Speaker 3: he went to the festival.
[24:48] Speaker 1: I don't think because he either lied or changed his mind.
[24:54] Speaker 3: I mean maybe, okay, let's I'll grant you that maybe
[24:57] Speaker 3: he changed his mind and decided to go.
[24:59] Speaker 1: He's, yes, he's He certainly could have changed his mind.
[25:02] Speaker 3: I have no problem with that.
[25:04] Speaker 1: Okay.
[25:04] Speaker 2: So does Jesus not know? Is he not like capable
[25:08] Speaker 2: of knowing what he's up to?
[25:09] Speaker 1: Because the Bible says that he's God and God can't
[25:13] Speaker 1: change his mind.
[25:18] Speaker 3: Can you show me the verse versus God can't change
[25:20] Speaker 3: his mind?
[25:21] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[25:21] Speaker 2: The best example is in First Samuel fifteen twenty nine,
[25:26] Speaker 2: but there's another one in numbers twenty three.
[25:31] Speaker 1: Nineteen.
[25:33] Speaker 2: In First Samuel says moreover, the glory of Israel will
[25:36] Speaker 2: not deceive or change his mind, for he's not a
[25:39] Speaker 2: mortal that he should change his mind. The same thing
[25:42] Speaker 2: in numbers twenty three nineteen. God is not a human
[25:44] Speaker 2: being that he should lie, or a mortal that he
[25:46] Speaker 2: should change his mind. So if Jesus is one hundred
[25:53] Speaker 2: percent God, that means he shouldn't be lying or changing
[25:56] Speaker 2: his mind.
[25:59] Speaker 3: That's interesting. I don't have to look at these verses.
[26:02] Speaker 1: That's a good one, all right.
[26:04] Speaker 2: We could do another one if you want to. I
[26:07] Speaker 2: think there's quite a few examples to pick from.
[26:10] Speaker 3: I got like two minutes, but go ahead, okay, let me.
[26:13] Speaker 2: See if I do one that's short, then rather than
[26:15] Speaker 2: doing one that's that's long. Right, we're gonna do John
[26:19] Speaker 2: six forty six. I'll put it back on the screen.
[26:28] Speaker 2: John six forty six says, not that anyone has seen
[26:33] Speaker 2: the Father except for the one who is from God.
[26:35] Speaker 2: He has seen the Father. So what he's suggesting here
[26:38] Speaker 2: is that no one's seen the Father?
[26:41] Speaker 1: Is that correct?
[26:44] Speaker 3: Not that anyone can you pull up the whole chapter
[26:49] Speaker 3: because it's just reading verses out of context doesn't work
[26:52] Speaker 3: for me.
[26:54] Speaker 2: Like fifty verses, you want to read all fifty of them?
[26:56] Speaker 3: Or well, just like just like the verses around it,
[27:00] Speaker 3: maybe like before and after ourself.
[27:01] Speaker 2: It says, it is written in the prophets, and they
[27:04] Speaker 2: shall all be taught by God. Everyone who has heard
[27:07] Speaker 2: and learned from the Father comes to me. Not that
[27:10] Speaker 2: anyone has seen the Father, except for the one who
[27:12] Speaker 2: is from God. He has seen the Father, truly. I
[27:15] Speaker 2: tell you, whoever believes has eternal life. I am the
[27:19] Speaker 2: bread of life. Okay, right, So he's saying, you haven't
[27:23] Speaker 2: seen the Father.
[27:25] Speaker 3: Nobody's seen the Father yet.
[27:27] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[27:28] Speaker 2: Now, of course the probably we have of this is
[27:30] Speaker 2: he basically says the opposite in uh, John fourteen, I'm
[27:36] Speaker 2: thinking of.
[27:36] Speaker 3: Oh where he says, if you've seen me, you've seen
[27:38] Speaker 3: the Father.
[27:39] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[27:40] Speaker 2: He says, why do you ask me? Why do you
[27:42] Speaker 2: ask me if you've seen me, you've seen the Father?
[27:46] Speaker 1: It says, yeah.
[27:48] Speaker 3: I think that's I would say that those are two
[27:51] Speaker 3: different contexts, so like meaning no one has seen the Father,
[27:55] Speaker 3: like literally, no one has seen the person of God
[27:58] Speaker 3: the Father. But Jesus says that the Father is in him.
[28:01] Speaker 3: So if you see him, you are you're seeing the Father.
[28:04] Speaker 3: He's the exact Hebrew says, he's the exact imprint of
[28:09] Speaker 3: his nature, or something along those lines.
[28:12] Speaker 1: I might be, yeah, you're pretty close. Actually it says
[28:14] Speaker 1: that he is the visible image of the invisible God.
[28:18] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so I would say those are I mean,
[28:23] Speaker 3: if you're just going by the wording, then I would
[28:26] Speaker 3: say you can try to make that a contradiction, but
[28:28] Speaker 3: I think the context shows that.
[28:30] Speaker 1: It's not right.
[28:31] Speaker 2: Okay, So if I've seen Jesus, let's say I'm Peter.
[28:35] Speaker 2: If I've seen Jesus, does that mean I've seen the Father.
[28:40] Speaker 3: In the sense that Jesus is the exact imprint of
[28:43] Speaker 3: the Father, but he's not the person of the Father.
[28:46] Speaker 3: No one has seen the person of the Father. They
[28:48] Speaker 3: can see the son, who is the exact imprint of
[28:50] Speaker 3: the Father, but not the person of the Father himself.
[28:54] Speaker 2: Because what he's doing is chastising his own disciples. Here
[28:59] Speaker 2: Philip said to him, Lord, show us the Father. So
[29:01] Speaker 2: the disciples are like, listen, we know that you're distinct
[29:05] Speaker 2: from the Father. We want to see the Father it says,
[29:08] Speaker 2: we will be satisfied. Jesus said to him, have I
[29:11] Speaker 2: been with you all this time, Philip, and you still
[29:13] Speaker 2: don't know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father?
[29:17] Speaker 2: How can you say, show us the father. So he's saying,
[29:19] Speaker 2: there's no distinction between him and the Father.
[29:22] Speaker 3: No, there is a distinction between him and the Father.
[29:25] Speaker 1: What's the distinction.
[29:28] Speaker 3: He's the person of the Son, he's begotten of the Father.
[29:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know.
[29:32] Speaker 2: But he says, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father.
[29:34] Speaker 2: Does that not mean what it says? Is that just
[29:36] Speaker 2: a metaphor?
[29:37] Speaker 3: Well, well, Jesus is the exact imprint of the Father.
[29:41] Speaker 3: So if you're seeing you know, if you're seeing Jesus,
[29:45] Speaker 3: you're seeing the character of the Father, you're seeing the
[29:47] Speaker 3: love of the Father, all of those things, but you're
[29:50] Speaker 3: not literally seeing the Father. Yeah, you're not actually seeing
[29:54] Speaker 3: the person of the Father.
[29:56] Speaker 2: No, okay, so that's not literally true then.
[30:01] Speaker 3: Yeah, I would. I don't know if you would call
[30:03] Speaker 3: it metaphorically true or however you want to say it.
[30:06] Speaker 3: But in that sense, he's not saying, you're seeing the
[30:10] Speaker 3: person of the Father.
[30:12] Speaker 2: Sure, Now let me show you where it's for sure wrong,
[30:15] Speaker 2: because when the Israelites in the desert, they go up
[30:18] Speaker 2: in the mountain and then they do see the Father.
[30:19] Speaker 2: It says, then Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abbi Whu
[30:22] Speaker 2: and seventy of the elders of Israel went up, and
[30:24] Speaker 2: they saw the God of Israel under his feet. There
[30:27] Speaker 2: was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the
[30:30] Speaker 2: very heaven. For clearness, God did not lay his hands
[30:33] Speaker 2: on the chief men of the Israelites. They beheld God
[30:36] Speaker 2: and they drink.
[30:41] Speaker 3: Well, how does I don't get it?
[30:44] Speaker 1: It says they beheld God, they saw.
[30:46] Speaker 3: God, right, but it's not the Father though.
[30:51] Speaker 1: I'm sorry, is the God of the Hebrews not the Father?
[30:56] Speaker 3: Well, the God of the Hebrews is Yahweh, who is
[30:58] Speaker 3: tryun father?
[30:59] Speaker 2: So in spirit yeah, yeah, no, no, yeah, Yeahweh is
[31:03] Speaker 2: certainly not trying.
[31:06] Speaker 3: I mean, are you a Christian? So I don't understand
[31:12] Speaker 3: why you're like telling me what Christians believe.
[31:16] Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm telling you what the what the Bible.
[31:20] Speaker 3: Says, right, the Bible teaches trinitarianism.
[31:24] Speaker 1: I don't think it does.
[31:26] Speaker 2: It tries to like there's there's a couple of moments
[31:28] Speaker 2: where you can make that case. But I don't think
[31:30] Speaker 2: it does. I think what you've got is I think
[31:33] Speaker 2: what you've got is three odds, not two gods.
[31:36] Speaker 1: But we're talking right now about about in.
[31:41] Speaker 3: Charitable with Christian beliefs, like we have our we have
[31:44] Speaker 3: our Holy Book, and we believe that our Holy Book
[31:47] Speaker 3: teaches trinitarianism. And you're just coming along as I would disagree.
[31:52] Speaker 3: Isn't that kind of silly?
[31:53] Speaker 1: It's not silly.
[31:54] Speaker 2: I was a Christian for twenty years and I have
[31:56] Speaker 2: a formal education, and then studying this book.
[31:59] Speaker 3: You were You were a Christian for twenty years and
[32:01] Speaker 3: you don't believe the Bible teachers trinitarianism. Yeah, bag, that's tough.
[32:09] Speaker 2: There's a lot of Christians that don't believe in trinitarianism.
[32:13] Speaker 3: No, no Christian doesn't believe in trinitarianism. You can't get
[32:17] Speaker 3: You can't be a Christian and believe anything but trinitarianism.
[32:22] Speaker 2: It's certainly false. That's not even close to in the Bible.
[32:25] Speaker 2: That's something that Trinitarians want you to believe. That's why
[32:28] Speaker 2: Theodosius the second had to issue edicts forcing trinitarian beliefs
[32:33] Speaker 2: on people. Because the Early Church was so diverse in opinions,
[32:37] Speaker 2: they had to force this down everyone's throat.
[32:40] Speaker 3: Yeah, but if they weren't, if they were allegedly a
[32:43] Speaker 3: part of the Early Church and they weren't Trinitarians, then
[32:46] Speaker 3: they weren't Christians.
[32:47] Speaker 1: Based on who's metric.
[32:49] Speaker 3: It's a Bible.
[32:50] Speaker 2: Oh show me the Bible. It says you have to
[32:52] Speaker 2: be a Trinitarian.
[32:54] Speaker 3: Matthew twenty eight nineteen. But I do have to roll though.
[32:57] Speaker 3: But I appreciate you both, all right.
[33:00] Speaker 1: That's not the Trinitarian doctrine. By the way.
[33:04] Speaker 2: Anyways, that was a good time. All right, friends, We're
[33:08] Speaker 2: on to the next one.
[33:11] Speaker 1: That was a good time. He was nice at least.
[33:14] Speaker 2: Samaul Johnson, my friend, thank you for the super chest says,
[33:16] Speaker 2: good to see you. I hope you had a blast
[33:18] Speaker 2: with your son for his birthday. Unfortunately he is with
[33:23] Speaker 2: mom for his birthday a week this week, but he'll
[33:28] Speaker 2: be back with me this weekend.
[33:30] Speaker 1: I'd be grabbing him. But anyways, I'm sure he had
[33:33] Speaker 1: a blast. He always has a great birthday.
[33:35] Speaker 2: Thank you for the birthday wishes, though, and New says
[33:38] Speaker 2: Is Chronicles twenty one and Second Saving twenty four is
[33:41] Speaker 2: scrible error. No, I don't think it's a scribal error.
[33:43] Speaker 2: I think it's a correction. So if you read Chronicles,
[33:46] Speaker 2: the chronicler does something that most Christians don't expect. The
[33:50] Speaker 2: chronicler is constantly adjusting and correcting the Book of Samuel
[33:54] Speaker 2: because they want to paint David as being a little
[33:58] Speaker 2: more kingly, a little more saint than what he actually
[34:01] Speaker 2: was in those books. And thank you for sending out
[34:06] Speaker 2: five DZ Debate memberships, Larry Beck big w I super
[34:10] Speaker 2: appreciate that, buddy.
[34:10] Speaker 1: Great to see you tonight.
[34:12] Speaker 2: And Katie says, sorry if you've been asked this before,
[34:15] Speaker 2: but are there any good books on the origin of yahweh?
[34:18] Speaker 2: There are some good books I would recommend basically all
[34:21] Speaker 2: the books by Mark S.
[34:22] Speaker 1: Smith.
[34:23] Speaker 2: You may also want to look at the works of
[34:25] Speaker 2: William Devers and John S Day and maybe even Frank
[34:31] Speaker 2: Moore Cross. I think those are all really good resources.
[34:34] Speaker 2: And you may also want to check out the teachings
[34:37] Speaker 2: and the books by James Tabor. James Tabor has a
[34:40] Speaker 2: lot to say on this particular subject. Bill says, good
[34:44] Speaker 2: star justin we love you on as. I appreciate that,
[34:47] Speaker 2: and I so it's painful getting it right off the ground.
[34:51] Speaker 2: And Chad says, why can't theiss answer yes or no
[34:54] Speaker 2: questions because the power of Christ does not compel them
[34:56] Speaker 2: to do so, he's powerless or it's list and La
[35:01] Speaker 2: Silver Server, thank you for the super thing. So I
[35:02] Speaker 2: appreciate that, friend. And also Johnny Cakes welcome in today,
[35:06] Speaker 2: says the infuriating things. A lot of these American Christians
[35:09] Speaker 2: are circumcised because of the insane Puritan and Rabbinic revenge
[35:12] Speaker 2: on sexual pleasure.
[35:14] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[35:14] Speaker 2: I think you're kind of right on that one, actually,
[35:16] Speaker 2: but remember in Galatians, Paul tells you if you take
[35:20] Speaker 2: the marks of circumcision, Christ is of no use to you. Okay,
[35:25] Speaker 2: don't like. If you're a Christian, stop circumcising your children.
[35:28] Speaker 2: It's bad for them. Don't do it.
[35:30] Speaker 1: I'm gonna grab four super chats. We'll get her. We
[35:32] Speaker 1: are going to get our next guest in here.
[35:35] Speaker 2: Crucifix me says, cast out by his own promised salvation,
[35:41] Speaker 2: left a trill of ruin, died for mankind from himself,
[35:44] Speaker 2: no tomb, no body, Messiah, Nope, just just a I
[35:49] Speaker 2: did not expect that coming.
[35:50] Speaker 1: Actually I did.
[35:52] Speaker 2: That was good and Bookie says, I get Rock Carver
[35:54] Speaker 2: Doug anytime you say, okay, let's try this again. Lmfao,
[35:59] Speaker 2: let's get baby. Also rip my foreskin and others mutilated
[36:04] Speaker 2: at birth for God. Yeah, Actually, I think the trend
[36:08] Speaker 2: is fading, though. I think we're getting towards the end.
[36:10] Speaker 1: Susie.
[36:11] Speaker 2: Thank you for the ten hour superchat, says g Man
[36:14] Speaker 2: was talking trash about you today. He's a pro slavery
[36:16] Speaker 2: Christian and I'm betting too cowardly to talk to you.
[36:19] Speaker 2: Poured my drink and watch and watching the chef justin Well.
[36:23] Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Susie. I appreciate that. And he
[36:25] Speaker 2: did a message James at Modern Day Debates trying to
[36:28] Speaker 2: set up a slavery debate with me. I told him like,
[36:31] Speaker 2: it's going to have to wait until the fall, when
[36:33] Speaker 2: my son's in school and I've got more time, but.
[36:36] Speaker 1: We might actually do a debate. We'll see.
[36:38] Speaker 2: Marcus says, why did everyone love Huge Grace? She had
[36:42] Speaker 2: a way of lifting spirits. Listen, Huge Huge Grace is
[36:46] Speaker 2: just here to stay. I'm okay with it now, I've
[36:48] Speaker 2: made peace with it. I'm okay with the joke. Stan,
[36:54] Speaker 2: thank you for the twenty hour super chat. That's super generous.
[36:56] Speaker 2: This is here we go. The embarrassing dance of avoiding
[36:59] Speaker 2: reality Christian to do is so unhinged. The cognitive dissonance
[37:04] Speaker 2: is absurd, I know, and we see it every time
[37:07] Speaker 2: we're live. Every single time we read a passage, it's
[37:10] Speaker 2: a clear lie or a clear contradiction.
[37:12] Speaker 1: And they tap.
[37:13] Speaker 2: Dance and they words don't mean words, and you name it,
[37:17] Speaker 2: you know it.
[37:17] Speaker 1: Just that's what's going to happen.
[37:19] Speaker 2: All right, Let's get our next guest in here. Daniel,
[37:21] Speaker 2: I think was next in, So let's get Daniel in
[37:24] Speaker 2: the guest box. Boocome in, Daniel, Thank you very much.
[37:33] Speaker 2: I'm very excited. Sure sure, Daniel. Are at least eighteen?
[37:36] Speaker 2: And are you a believer?
[37:38] Speaker 5: Yes, I'm at least eighteen. I'm nineteen, okay.
[37:42] Speaker 2: And do you agree or disagree with the claim on
[37:46] Speaker 2: the screen?
[37:48] Speaker 5: I disagree with that particular claim yes, okay.
[37:53] Speaker 2: And do you disagree with the liar part or the
[37:55] Speaker 2: fraud part?
[37:56] Speaker 5: I disagree with the boat parts?
[38:00] Speaker 2: Which one would you like to tackle first? The liar
[38:02] Speaker 2: part of the fraud party.
[38:04] Speaker 5: I would like to tackle the part first, the liar
[38:08] Speaker 5: part first Act aware currently and a lie that Jesus
[38:14] Speaker 5: has said.
[38:15] Speaker 1: I mean, he's, he's, he's told quite a few lies.
[38:20] Speaker 1: Let's talk about yeah, from his own voice.
[38:25] Speaker 2: But I mean, if the Gospels are to be trusted
[38:27] Speaker 2: as a source of his words.
[38:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, have you read? Uh? Have you read in the
[38:34] Speaker 1: Old Testament? Yet?
[38:38] Speaker 5: Not a lot? Very limited?
[38:40] Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm gonna show you John three real quick.
[38:45] Speaker 2: And John three says no one has ascended into heaven
[38:48] Speaker 2: except the one who descended from heaven, the son of Man.
[38:52] Speaker 1: What does that mean?
[38:55] Speaker 5: I must say, I don't understand this sentence, but I
[38:59] Speaker 5: am immortal. I don't have the superhuman knowledge. I don't
[39:06] Speaker 5: or cognitive ability to understand everything. I don't actually understand
[39:13] Speaker 5: this sentence. I don't know what it means.
[39:17] Speaker 1: Okay, I can go slow.
[39:18] Speaker 2: So Jesus is saying that no one, like no human
[39:23] Speaker 2: has ascended into heaven except for himself. Okay, yeah, okay,
[39:33] Speaker 2: Now do you think that statement is true or not true?
[39:40] Speaker 5: If it's from the Bible, it's probably true. That's okay,
[39:46] Speaker 5: it's possible, it's not.
[39:48] Speaker 1: It's not very fair.
[39:53] Speaker 5: I'm not sure. I don't know how to interpret that statement.
[39:58] Speaker 2: I'm not sure have you read the story of Elisha
[40:03] Speaker 2: and Elijah?
[40:07] Speaker 5: No?
[40:08] Speaker 3: But no?
[40:10] Speaker 2: Okay, So in Second Kings we have the parting scene
[40:15] Speaker 2: when Elijah hands off the mantle to Elisha and then
[40:20] Speaker 2: he flies away, and it says they continued walking and talking.
[40:25] Speaker 2: A chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the
[40:28] Speaker 2: two of them, and Elijah ascended in a whirlwind into heaven.
[40:32] Speaker 2: So Elijah went into heaven, which means Jesus was either
[40:36] Speaker 2: wrong or he total lie.
[40:41] Speaker 5: No, he probably told the truth. I just have a
[40:45] Speaker 5: hard time interpreting this. I don't Yeah, well, let's go slow.
[40:51] Speaker 1: From the beginning, Jesus says, no one has ascended into heaven.
[40:55] Speaker 1: What does that mean?
[41:00] Speaker 5: No one? Okay, no one has assented. No one has
[41:04] Speaker 5: traveled up to heaven assented as humans can't ascent, they
[41:10] Speaker 5: can't fly, so God could with twins angels.
[41:17] Speaker 2: Can so on face value, this just means what it says.
[41:20] Speaker 2: It means that no one has ascended into heaven.
[41:23] Speaker 5: Right, But could it be metaphorical?
[41:26] Speaker 1: Is it? Like?
[41:27] Speaker 2: What's the metaphor for? Why would he say such a thing?
[41:30] Speaker 2: Why wouldn't you just say what he means?
[41:33] Speaker 5: I humans can't descend. They can't fly, but Jesus could fly.
[41:41] Speaker 5: He can he as described by the Bible. We don't
[41:46] Speaker 5: know if he could, but we think so with the
[41:49] Speaker 5: help of right.
[41:51] Speaker 2: But what I'm asking is, if this doesn't mean that
[41:55] Speaker 2: no one has ascended into heaven, what would it mean?
[41:58] Speaker 1: What would be the alternative reading.
[42:02] Speaker 5: I'm not aware what the alternative could be right now,
[42:06] Speaker 5: I'm not.
[42:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, because it seems pretty clear like the passage isn't confusing.
[42:11] Speaker 2: It just means that no man has a sent it
[42:12] Speaker 2: in heaven. So then Jesus just forgot. He forgot what
[42:16] Speaker 2: was happening in the Old Testament when Elijah went into heaven,
[42:20] Speaker 2: or he's you know, if you think he's all knowing,
[42:23] Speaker 2: then you just have to assume as a liar.
[42:27] Speaker 5: I'm not sure how that's the only possible conclusion you
[42:31] Speaker 5: could come to. I'm not I mean, can you give
[42:34] Speaker 5: me another one. I mean, can you explain why you
[42:41] Speaker 5: come to in simpler terms in general? Why? I mean,
[42:48] Speaker 5: he has said that people can enter paradise. I'm sure
[42:52] Speaker 5: if he believed that Elijah did the right things and
[42:55] Speaker 5: followed the word of God, he could enter heaven. I mean,
[43:00] Speaker 5: it's not just got that could ascent to Heaven. I mean,
[43:05] Speaker 5: I mean, I have a hard time, you know, interpreting
[43:08] Speaker 5: this stuff, and I don't think it's very unsy.
[43:11] Speaker 2: That's okay, Well, listen, Daniel, I think we have to
[43:14] Speaker 2: move on to someone that's got a little better English.
[43:17] Speaker 1: Not your fault. You're you're doing the best you can.
[43:20] Speaker 4: I think, in order to English.
[43:22] Speaker 5: But I can't understand the Bible.
[43:25] Speaker 1: I know, right, It's okay, don't worry. He's good talking
[43:29] Speaker 1: to you, buddy.
[43:29] Speaker 5: Okay, thanks, thanks, thanks, I appreciate it.
[43:33] Speaker 2: He was doing his best. He was, he was doing
[43:36] Speaker 2: his best. He just talking in somebody else's language and
[43:39] Speaker 2: reading a book in their language can be difficult. It
[43:42] Speaker 2: really can be angry malacied infant, says recent caller Joe.
[43:46] Speaker 2: Brought up John five nineteen. Can this verse be used
[43:49] Speaker 2: versus Christians who try to run from the Old Testament?
[43:54] Speaker 2: So this is similar to Matthew? Uh No, it's not
[44:00] Speaker 2: similar to Matthew five. But I'll read the passage real quick,
[44:03] Speaker 2: in me one second. But it says is Jesus said
[44:10] Speaker 2: to them, very truly, I tell you, the son can
[44:12] Speaker 2: do nothing on his own, but only what he sees
[44:15] Speaker 2: the Father doing. For whatever the father does, the son
[44:17] Speaker 2: does likewise. So what you're suggesting, I suspect is that
[44:22] Speaker 2: if the father is claiming that the laws are forever,
[44:26] Speaker 2: and Jesus only does what the father says, and he's
[44:29] Speaker 2: in one accord with the Father, then he must agree
[44:32] Speaker 2: that the law of Moses's eternal, which I think we
[44:35] Speaker 2: can demonstrate pretty easily that that is the case. Right,
[44:37] Speaker 2: So I hamp Down, I'm agreeing with you for sure.
[44:41] Speaker 2: I think this verse adds to the other verses to
[44:44] Speaker 2: reinforce that the Mosaic law is still in effect.
[44:47] Speaker 1: Yota saying cloud good to see.
[44:48] Speaker 2: His friend says, Jesus is God until he isn't God,
[44:51] Speaker 2: but then he is God, but then he's a ghost,
[44:53] Speaker 2: but then he's also everything in everyone, but also not
[44:57] Speaker 2: what the fuck rogard for, Doug Yoda, that's the problem, right.
[45:01] Speaker 2: They want to do like they want to always have
[45:04] Speaker 2: their cake and eat it too, and it just doesn't
[45:06] Speaker 2: work very well. Dan, come in again, thank you so much.
[45:09] Speaker 2: Stand six Yx' six for the tiny supertest says, imagine
[45:11] Speaker 2: if Christians tried to make one comprehensive document that tells
[45:15] Speaker 2: you which parts of the Bible are literal versus metaphorical.
[45:18] Speaker 2: This would be a really good thing. Actually, So if
[45:22] Speaker 2: you read the writings of Origin. Origin has a lot
[45:27] Speaker 2: of disdain for Christians that don't think the Old Testament
[45:32] Speaker 2: is metaphorical. He has a lot of trouble with the
[45:35] Speaker 2: Old Testament, and so one of the things he does
[45:38] Speaker 2: is constantly try to make it a metaphorical reading to
[45:42] Speaker 2: soften the harder parts of it, which you know, we
[45:45] Speaker 2: see that a lot as well.
[45:47] Speaker 1: Vincent says, first time catching you alive.
[45:49] Speaker 2: Here's my tiny contribution to your great endeavor in exposing
[45:53] Speaker 2: and combating poisoned minds. Leif be upon Doug rock hard product, Well,
[45:59] Speaker 2: thank you so much. I appreciate that Vincent, and every
[46:02] Speaker 2: super Chat, every member, every like, comment and share helps
[46:06] Speaker 2: to stream. So thank you so much for being here.
[46:09] Speaker 2: And Christian Philippine, thank you for the ten dollars super thanks.
[46:14] Speaker 2: And also Patrick says two year son on his birthday. Well,
[46:17] Speaker 2: thank you so so much. Patrick, I appreciate that. I'm
[46:20] Speaker 2: just gonna grab four more Superchats and then we'll get
[46:22] Speaker 2: our next guest right in the box. Adam Brown. Great
[46:24] Speaker 2: to see you today. Thank you for the super Chat,
[46:26] Speaker 2: says cook him up. Like cocktail weenies today in honor
[46:29] Speaker 2: of Samall Johnson, I will, I absolutely will do that. Friend,
[46:33] Speaker 2: Thank you for stopping, bye, thanks for watching. And Nano says,
[46:36] Speaker 2: is a secret name of Doug, Really Douglass whispered like
[46:39] Speaker 2: yahwehs so sacred and hitted it must never be spoken
[46:43] Speaker 2: aloud or revealed. Nano, this is a great question, but
[46:46] Speaker 2: Doug does not care if you mispronounce his name as
[46:49] Speaker 2: long as you're a good person. Doug cares way more
[46:52] Speaker 2: about people being good people than he does about his name,
[46:55] Speaker 2: because he's He's the rock of salvation, not the rock.
[46:58] Speaker 1: Of horrific punishments.
[47:00] Speaker 2: And Jay says, there's a guy called g Man with
[47:03] Speaker 2: views that he's confident in, but golly shucks, he's just
[47:06] Speaker 2: too shy to join the Quean debate.
[47:08] Speaker 1: Maybe he needs an invite. He won't.
[47:11] Speaker 2: He's already he's already messaged me. He will not join
[47:15] Speaker 2: this stream.
[47:15] Speaker 4: He will.
[47:16] Speaker 2: He will only join a stream if it's like moderated
[47:19] Speaker 2: by modern dat debates because he's a coward. Jeremy says,
[47:23] Speaker 2: good day, sir.
[47:23] Speaker 1: Question.
[47:24] Speaker 2: Do you think the Constantine and Paul conversion have any
[47:27] Speaker 2: correlation or just coincidence?
[47:29] Speaker 1: Just wondering your thoughts.
[47:31] Speaker 2: I don't actually, Jeremy, this is an interesting query, but
[47:34] Speaker 2: I don't think they're at all related. That being said,
[47:38] Speaker 2: if there was no Paul, I don't think we would
[47:41] Speaker 2: have a Constantine. I think the Constantine conversion is heavily
[47:46] Speaker 2: reliant on the Messiah claims going out to the Greeks
[47:53] Speaker 2: and the Romans and the Gentiles, and without that, you're
[47:57] Speaker 2: you know, you're dead in the water. Let me grab
[48:01] Speaker 2: Oh they dropped, maybe we got them.
[48:04] Speaker 1: Compon How you doing?
[48:07] Speaker 4: Hey, I'm doing good?
[48:08] Speaker 2: How are you doing good? Thank you for asking compan
[48:10] Speaker 2: Are you at least eighteen?
[48:12] Speaker 1: And are you a believer?
[48:16] Speaker 4: Yeah?
[48:16] Speaker 1: And yeah? Awesome?
[48:17] Speaker 2: And I assume you believe in the Christian God.
[48:22] Speaker 9: Yeah, you know, I was, you know, to be honest,
[48:25] Speaker 9: I was listening to your life a second ago, but
[48:28] Speaker 9: I was pulling through like a dead zone. Were you
[48:31] Speaker 9: arguing for like the Trinity being a biblical belief or
[48:35] Speaker 9: were you saying it was up to a post biblical innovation.
[48:39] Speaker 2: What I'm saying is you have to do a lot
[48:41] Speaker 2: of triangulation to get there, and it depends on which
[48:44] Speaker 2: Bible versus you emphasize in which ones you don't, and
[48:47] Speaker 2: whether or not you're willing to suspend logic. And if
[48:52] Speaker 2: you're not willing to suspend logic, no, I don't think
[48:54] Speaker 2: you can get.
[48:54] Speaker 1: To a trinity.
[48:55] Speaker 2: If you are willing to suspend logic, I think you
[48:58] Speaker 2: can get there. But that being said, we're actually not
[49:01] Speaker 2: talking about the trinity today. As much as I love
[49:03] Speaker 2: to talk about the Trinity, that's not really the topic
[49:05] Speaker 2: of today.
[49:06] Speaker 1: So do you want to do the topic on the screen?
[49:10] Speaker 4: Yeah?
[49:11] Speaker 9: Yeah, I just I feel like I might have I
[49:13] Speaker 9: might have joined misunderstanding. You like, if if if your
[49:18] Speaker 9: claim is like Jesus was a liar or a fraud,
[49:21] Speaker 9: is that the you know, is that the historical Jesus
[49:24] Speaker 9: or the Jesus that you have, you know, preserved in
[49:28] Speaker 9: some layers of the Gospel.
[49:29] Speaker 1: I think it could be both.
[49:31] Speaker 2: So I think the Jesus of the Gospels is clearly
[49:34] Speaker 2: a liar and a fraud. The historical Jesus is hard
[49:38] Speaker 2: to know because you know, you know, scholars, you know,
[49:41] Speaker 2: the most famous we would say, like those that were
[49:43] Speaker 2: part of the Jesus Seminar have traditionally not agreed on
[49:49] Speaker 2: what the historical Jesus actually said. That being said, I
[49:53] Speaker 2: do think that if you look at what we think
[49:56] Speaker 2: he said, I think we can at least get to
[49:59] Speaker 2: the point where he's a fraud or let's say he
[50:03] Speaker 2: was really badly mistaken about his identity.
[50:08] Speaker 9: Yeah, you know, like I think, you know, I think
[50:10] Speaker 9: we might agree more than we disagree. I think the
[50:13] Speaker 9: only thing I could find to disagree with you on
[50:16] Speaker 9: is that I think there might be an approachable consensus
[50:21] Speaker 9: on the historical Jesus and you know, just being a
[50:25] Speaker 9: you know, apocalyptic Jewish preacher, you know, in that sense.
[50:29] Speaker 4: I don't think.
[50:30] Speaker 9: I don't think I would label that as being fraudulent
[50:33] Speaker 9: or lying, you know, so to speak. But you know,
[50:36] Speaker 9: certain things that you have with you know, the Gospel
[50:39] Speaker 9: of John, reflecting a little bit of a higher christology.
[50:42] Speaker 9: I think then, you know, any of his pones of
[50:45] Speaker 9: divinity I want to really attribute to the historical Jesus.
[50:48] Speaker 9: So if we agree, unless he disagree, I don't have
[50:52] Speaker 9: to agree.
[50:53] Speaker 2: So I think the if he was an apocalyptic teacher
[51:00] Speaker 2: at end times preacher, and he was teaching that he
[51:02] Speaker 2: was the Messiah, then I personally believe that he was
[51:07] Speaker 2: either one of two things. He was very mistaken or
[51:11] Speaker 2: you know, or he's a liar, because if if it
[51:14] Speaker 2: turns out that that he was the Messiah, well he
[51:18] Speaker 2: didn't fulfill his promises. He said he was coming back
[51:20] Speaker 2: within the lifetime of his disciples, and then he didn't
[51:23] Speaker 2: come back within the lifetime of his disciples. It was
[51:26] Speaker 2: clear that Paul and the other disciples were under the
[51:28] Speaker 2: impression that he would be coming back within their lifetimes.
[51:33] Speaker 2: We have lots of statements issued in Paul's letters that
[51:37] Speaker 2: would lead one to believe he's coming back any day now.
[51:40] Speaker 2: So just hold on a little bit longer. You know,
[51:42] Speaker 2: the present form of the world is about to end,
[51:45] Speaker 2: and if if if that comes from history, if Paul's
[51:48] Speaker 2: words are coming from history, then either Paul is mistaken
[51:51] Speaker 2: or what Jesus told him was not true.
[51:56] Speaker 9: Yeah, I think I think I would say, you know
[51:58] Speaker 9: that uh an e kernel of history within do you know,
[52:05] Speaker 9: within Jesus's disciples probably didn't expect him to die. I
[52:10] Speaker 9: think I think anything to do with his death and
[52:13] Speaker 9: the later reinterpretations of his death is probably due for
[52:19] Speaker 9: rhetorical reasons rather than any any actual historical reasons. So
[52:23] Speaker 9: with with Paul expecting to come back in his lifetime,
[52:26] Speaker 9: that's that's certainly true.
[52:28] Speaker 3: Uh.
[52:29] Speaker 9: And yeah he was wrong about that. So I don't,
[52:33] Speaker 9: like I said, I think we might agree because I
[52:36] Speaker 9: in terms of the historical Jesus, I would make a
[52:39] Speaker 9: claim that the historical Jesus is just a you know,
[52:44] Speaker 9: a follower of John the Baptist, and then he kind
[52:46] Speaker 9: of took over his role after John the Baptist died
[52:50] Speaker 9: and continued in apostolyptic Jewish preaching.
[52:54] Speaker 4: Uh.
[52:54] Speaker 9: And then once he died, I think that kind of
[52:56] Speaker 9: came as a shock to his you know, his decide
[53:00] Speaker 9: peoples are his believers, because they you know, expected him
[53:02] Speaker 9: to you know, kind of take you know, the institute
[53:06] Speaker 9: a human kingship. Uh, you know, re re establish the
[53:11] Speaker 9: nation of Israel.
[53:12] Speaker 5: Uh.
[53:13] Speaker 4: And that did not happen.
[53:14] Speaker 9: And I think any any biblical a you know, plames
[53:19] Speaker 9: or texts that reinterpret that would probably just be later,
[53:23] Speaker 9: you know, later renegotiations, uh, of of what Jesus's purpose was,
[53:28] Speaker 9: I don't think. I don't think any of Jesus' is
[53:31] Speaker 9: like you know, you know, I am. I would say
[53:36] Speaker 9: I would argue that most of job explains about what
[53:38] Speaker 9: Jesus says is probably not the historical Jesus and plaims
[53:43] Speaker 9: that even.
[53:45] Speaker 2: Well, I mean confine, it sounds like we actually agree
[53:47] Speaker 2: on quite a bit, so I'll probably have to move
[53:49] Speaker 2: on to the next guest. But I appreciate it coming up.
[53:51] Speaker 1: Man.
[53:52] Speaker 4: Yeah, no ways, like a.
[53:58] Speaker 2: Yeah, I give a lot of give a lot of
[54:00] Speaker 2: charity to the Gospels when it says that Jesus said something,
[54:05] Speaker 2: but like half of what they say Jesus said.
[54:08] Speaker 1: Obviously, you guys know, I don't. I don't believe it.
[54:12] Speaker 2: I think these are people inventing words for Jesus. But
[54:15] Speaker 2: it is what it is, all right, let me grab
[54:17] Speaker 2: next in I'm gonna grab a couple of supers, grab
[54:20] Speaker 2: next in line. Marcus says, I'm just starting a new
[54:23] Speaker 2: I can't say this on stream strain. I'm naming it
[54:27] Speaker 2: Flying Jesus tagline. It's biblical shout out to the last caller.
[54:32] Speaker 2: Happy birthday to your son Joseph. Well, thank you so much, Marcus.
[54:34] Speaker 2: I appreciate that, and that, Hey, thanks for being here
[54:36] Speaker 2: and thanks for supporting the stream.
[54:37] Speaker 1: I appreciate that.
[54:39] Speaker 2: And Crenitch says, happened upon you through the line, glad
[54:43] Speaker 2: to catch a stream. Well, wishes to you all. Well
[54:45] Speaker 2: thank you, Creenwitch. Actually, I'm gonna be on the line
[54:48] Speaker 2: again soon. It looks like August the sixth is when
[54:54] Speaker 2: I'll be back on the line, So put your put
[54:57] Speaker 2: that in your calendar. Friends, Mindy says Hiver one. I
[55:00] Speaker 2: hope you have been well. I thought I smelled barbecue
[55:04] Speaker 2: having celebration of life for Ozzie tomorrow. He liked Doug
[55:07] Speaker 2: Rock's Heart. Oh, he absolutely does, and it's one of
[55:10] Speaker 2: Doug's favorite musicians. By the way, Absolutely big w for that,
[55:15] Speaker 2: and sir Game, thank you so so much for the
[55:19] Speaker 2: five dollars. Super Chet says, this is my favorite live
[55:21] Speaker 2: topic of yours to watch love when we go deep
[55:24] Speaker 2: into the prophecy. I know we're about to hit on those.
[55:27] Speaker 2: We're about to get it into the prophecy tonight. I
[55:29] Speaker 2: can't wait. I wish my streams weren't so leggy tonight.
[55:33] Speaker 2: I think it's because I'm streaming my vertical stream two
[55:35] Speaker 2: high of a resolution. But I'll take it down for
[55:39] Speaker 2: the next one. Cognitive Dissonance sent out five DZ memberships.
[55:43] Speaker 2: Big W. I appreciate that Cognitive Dissonance. It's very generous.
[55:46] Speaker 2: And last one from Stateful Heretic, thank you for the
[55:49] Speaker 2: ten dollars, super Chest says Hurt a bit of national
[55:51] Speaker 2: prayer altar in DC saying immigrants are God's punishment? Is
[55:55] Speaker 2: there any biblical source for that nonsense? Some of these
[55:58] Speaker 2: theists in position of him and are scary rock hard
[56:01] Speaker 2: for Doug. No, there is literally nothing in the Bible
[56:05] Speaker 2: stating that immigrants coming into your land are are a punishment,
[56:09] Speaker 2: unless it's referring specifically to like the Babylonians or the Assyrians.
[56:13] Speaker 2: That God did say he is stirring up He's stirring
[56:16] Speaker 2: up their armies to come and attack. But those are
[56:19] Speaker 2: to the Israelites specifically, those are Those are not like
[56:23] Speaker 2: blanket commands for Christian history. Doctor Joe, thank you for
[56:28] Speaker 2: the love paint. Great to see you in the house,
[56:29] Speaker 2: Doctor Joe, I appreciate that. All right, let's get our
[56:32] Speaker 2: next guest in here. I think it's gonna be oh,
[56:35] Speaker 2: our friend g Man's.
[56:36] Speaker 1: In the house. Welcome in g Min final justin.
[56:43] Speaker 4: How are you?
[56:44] Speaker 1: I'm doing good? G Man? Are you you don't want
[56:46] Speaker 1: to put your face on the screen or no?
[56:49] Speaker 4: Because you want me an apology.
[56:50] Speaker 10: You just told your audience that I was not going
[56:52] Speaker 10: to be on his channel, and I wasn't in the background.
[56:55] Speaker 10: I mean, I'm here. I know you can see who's
[56:57] Speaker 10: in the background, right see you.
[56:58] Speaker 2: Last time you, last time, I mean last time you
[57:01] Speaker 2: talked to me, said you wouldn't be coming on the stream.
[57:03] Speaker 1: So now you're a liar.
[57:05] Speaker 4: No, I did say I wasn't going to come on here.
[57:07] Speaker 10: I changed my mind. People tend to do that, Yeah,
[57:10] Speaker 10: but I do tend to change my mind. Sure you
[57:12] Speaker 10: know my history on here. I said I wasn't going
[57:14] Speaker 10: to go to a lot of places that I went to.
[57:15] Speaker 2: Actually don't know your history. I don't follow your tannel
[57:17] Speaker 2: at all. So do you agree or disagree with the
[57:21] Speaker 2: claim on the screen?
[57:23] Speaker 10: Jesus is not a fraud and atheists cannot make the
[57:25] Speaker 10: claim that Jesus.
[57:26] Speaker 3: Is a fraud.
[57:26] Speaker 2: Oh, I certainly can. So we could start with the
[57:29] Speaker 2: fraud claim. I think my fraud claim is rooted in
[57:31] Speaker 2: the idea that he was the Messiah, and he certainly
[57:35] Speaker 2: wasn't the Messiah. So according to the Bible, the Messiah
[57:38] Speaker 2: was supposed to be an actual king that sat on
[57:40] Speaker 2: the throne over Israel, over the Israelites, and and dealt
[57:49] Speaker 2: with all of Israel's enemies.
[57:52] Speaker 1: Do you think he did that?
[57:55] Speaker 4: I believe that because atheists believe that God.
[57:57] Speaker 10: Doesn't exist, you can't see that he was a fraud
[58:00] Speaker 10: and Jesus is good.
[58:01] Speaker 2: We certainly can't. It's called an internal critique. Like if
[58:03] Speaker 2: I said it's true that the bananas in pajamas were
[58:09] Speaker 2: actually frauds. I think we all know that the bananas
[58:12] Speaker 2: in pajamas aren't people or things that existed in real life.
[58:16] Speaker 1: Were referring to the fictitious version.
[58:18] Speaker 2: So when I say that Jesus is a liar and
[58:20] Speaker 2: a fraud, I'm obviously referring to the character in the book.
[58:26] Speaker 4: Well, here's the thing, the character in a book is God.
[58:28] Speaker 1: An atheists, Yeah, I disagree with that.
[58:32] Speaker 10: We have a fundamental disagreement here that since you believe
[58:34] Speaker 10: he that God doesn't exist, then that means you can't
[58:37] Speaker 10: say that Jesus is a fraud or liar.
[58:39] Speaker 4: You can't even say that he walked the earth.
[58:41] Speaker 2: Really to pose, was Harry Potter a good character or
[58:44] Speaker 2: a bad character?
[58:46] Speaker 10: Well, then you're then if if I was talking about
[58:48] Speaker 10: how man, was Harry Potter a good character or a
[58:51] Speaker 10: bad character?
[58:52] Speaker 4: I don't know.
[58:53] Speaker 10: I've never seen Harry Potter and I never will see
[58:55] Speaker 10: Harry Potter.
[58:55] Speaker 1: Have you ever seen a Disney movie?
[58:58] Speaker 4: I seen a Disney movie.
[59:00] Speaker 2: Which one let's say snow White, Okay, with snow White
[59:05] Speaker 2: a good character or a bad character.
[59:08] Speaker 10: It depends. If you're on the occult, you probably think
[59:10] Speaker 10: she was a good character. If you're a Christian, you
[59:12] Speaker 10: probably think she was a decent character. But I think
[59:14] Speaker 10: that she So you can't.
[59:16] Speaker 2: Make value judgments about fictional entities. I'm glad you can
[59:19] Speaker 2: finally figure that one out. So my claim is, according
[59:22] Speaker 2: to the Bible, that Jesus that is in the Bible
[59:25] Speaker 2: is in fact a fraud, and he's a fraud because
[59:28] Speaker 2: he claimed to be the Messiah and.
[59:30] Speaker 1: He wasn't the Messiah.
[59:33] Speaker 4: Again, I'm sorry because I'm sorry.
[59:36] Speaker 2: So Jesus claimed to be the Messiah and he wasn't
[59:39] Speaker 2: the Messiah. Jeremiah thirty three talks about the Messiah. He says,
[59:43] Speaker 2: the days are Sureley Cummings says, Lord, when I will
[59:46] Speaker 2: fulfill the promise that I made to the House of
[59:47] Speaker 2: Israel and to the House of Judah in those days,
[59:50] Speaker 2: and at that time, I will cause a righteous branch
[59:54] Speaker 2: to spring up for David. And he shall execute justice
[59:57] Speaker 2: and righteousness in the land. In those days, Judah will
[1:00:00] Speaker 2: be saved and Jerusalem will live in safety. And this
[1:00:03] Speaker 2: is the name by which it would be called. The
[1:00:05] Speaker 2: Lord is our righteousness. For thus saith the Lord David
[1:00:09] Speaker 2: shall never lack a man to sit on the throne
[1:00:11] Speaker 2: of the House of Israel, and the levitical priests shall
[1:00:14] Speaker 2: never lack a man in my presence to offer burnt offerings,
[1:00:17] Speaker 2: to make grain offerings, and to make sacrifices for all time.
[1:00:21] Speaker 1: Did any of that?
[1:00:23] Speaker 10: Are actually kind of thinking about it? But did it
[1:00:25] Speaker 10: come to Jesus Messiah? And yes, that did come true,
[1:00:28] Speaker 10: and it will become more true.
[1:00:29] Speaker 1: Great, Yeah, show me.
[1:00:33] Speaker 2: Great, So show me in the Bible where he sat
[1:00:35] Speaker 2: on the throne of King David.
[1:00:37] Speaker 4: And a book of revelation right in the back of
[1:00:39] Speaker 4: the book.
[1:00:39] Speaker 2: When the revelation hasn't come true yet. So we'll try again.
[1:00:42] Speaker 2: So show me show me in the book where we actually.
[1:00:44] Speaker 1: Did the thing. Well again, I don't know if you
[1:00:48] Speaker 1: know this.
[1:00:49] Speaker 2: If you if you are, if you're going to fulfill
[1:00:51] Speaker 2: a prophecy in the future, that means it hasn't been
[1:00:53] Speaker 2: fulfilled yet.
[1:00:58] Speaker 1: So did he fulfilled? Did he fulfill that. Yeah, what
[1:01:01] Speaker 1: prophecy is I do g man, did he fulfill this?
[1:01:03] Speaker 4: What's a dual prophety?
[1:01:05] Speaker 2: A dual prophecy is being misapplied by you right now?
[1:01:07] Speaker 2: A dual prophecy, says.
[1:01:11] Speaker 4: What is a dual prophecy?
[1:01:12] Speaker 2: I'll explain to you if you stop talking, child. So
[1:01:15] Speaker 2: a dual prophecy is when you give a prophecy and
[1:01:17] Speaker 2: it has an immediate fulfillment in the immediate context. So
[1:01:21] Speaker 2: if I said I'm going to the store tomorrow, and
[1:01:24] Speaker 2: then I go to the store tomorrow, and then someone
[1:01:27] Speaker 2: comes along later and says, but it also can be
[1:01:30] Speaker 2: applied to this other thing because it has a secondary fulfillment.
[1:01:34] Speaker 2: That makes it a dual prophecy. Now I'm talking not
[1:01:37] Speaker 2: about dual prophecies. I'm asking anything in this passage. Anything
[1:01:42] Speaker 2: in this passage, what's been fulfilled?
[1:01:45] Speaker 10: Well again, Jesus is raining actually right now, is sitting
[1:01:48] Speaker 10: at the right hand of the Father. Act show me
[1:01:50] Speaker 10: to study the New Testament. Hold on a minute, if
[1:01:52] Speaker 10: you actually read and study the New Testament, he is
[1:01:54] Speaker 10: sitting at the right hand of the Father raining right now,
[1:01:57] Speaker 10: and when he returns he will rain for what thousand years?
[1:02:00] Speaker 10: This is in the Book of Revelation. This is quite
[1:02:02] Speaker 10: a common Christian teaching. Proved to me he's up there reigning.
[1:02:10] Speaker 10: Proved to me that he's up their reigning. Man, he's
[1:02:13] Speaker 10: raining in my heart.
[1:02:14] Speaker 2: I mean, he's reigning in your heart. I got the
[1:02:17] Speaker 2: spirit heart, I have the spirit of Christmas is Lord. No,
[1:02:21] Speaker 2: Santa Claus is the King of Kings. His spirit lives
[1:02:24] Speaker 2: in my heart. Every winter I feel him.
[1:02:26] Speaker 10: So you know what a dual prophecy is. But the
[1:02:29] Speaker 10: Christian Hold on a minute, So you denied a Christian
[1:02:31] Speaker 10: faith that Jesus lives in our heart, but yet you
[1:02:33] Speaker 10: used to be a Christian.
[1:02:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, I certainly do deny that because it's a nonsensical claim.
[1:02:38] Speaker 2: So nothing, So nothing in this prophecy actually came true
[1:02:44] Speaker 2: because it says in those days Judah will be saved
[1:02:47] Speaker 2: and Jerusalem will live in.
[1:02:49] Speaker 4: Safety and happened in the back of the book.
[1:02:51] Speaker 2: No, it didn't happen yet, so nothing, so nothing in
[1:02:54] Speaker 2: this happened.
[1:02:56] Speaker 10: Hold on a minute. There were prophecies that he's fulfilled
[1:02:58] Speaker 10: in his life. You're missing prophecy. Fulfi does not necessarily
[1:03:02] Speaker 10: not make.
[1:03:03] Speaker 2: Him the man you're misapplying. You're misapplying terms. You're looking
[1:03:06] Speaker 2: for a partial fulfillment prophecy. A partial fulfillment prophecy is
[1:03:10] Speaker 2: when he does part now.
[1:03:11] Speaker 1: And then another part later.
[1:03:14] Speaker 2: Give me one second, but had better be Jesus calling you.
[1:03:19] Speaker 1: You can't be up here doing the Lord's work with
[1:03:21] Speaker 1: your phone not on. Uh, do not disturb?
[1:03:23] Speaker 10: Are you totally right about that? I wish this phone
[1:03:25] Speaker 10: would stop calling. I know it's the devil and put
[1:03:27] Speaker 10: it on. Do not disturb me.
[1:03:29] Speaker 4: It's called a dual prophecy.
[1:03:30] Speaker 10: He fulfilled the prophecies that he needed to fulfill when
[1:03:33] Speaker 10: he was on It's what you then simple, I should
[1:03:35] Speaker 10: know you don't the oldest.
[1:03:37] Speaker 2: Well, so we'll try to say again, g man, because
[1:03:39] Speaker 2: again you're misapplying terms. When you do part of a
[1:03:42] Speaker 2: prophecy now and then, and then the other part of
[1:03:44] Speaker 2: the prophecy later, that's called a partial fulfillment, right. A
[1:03:49] Speaker 2: dual fulfillment means it all came true, but then there's
[1:03:52] Speaker 2: another fulfillment that is also connected to it. This is
[1:03:55] Speaker 2: not that the actual prediction made in this prophecy did
[1:03:59] Speaker 2: not come true. Now you're saying it partially came true
[1:04:03] Speaker 2: because you think Jesus is somehow a king, but you
[1:04:07] Speaker 2: can't prove that. You can't demonstrate that to be the case.
[1:04:10] Speaker 2: And it doesn't say that he's good. It doesn't say
[1:04:13] Speaker 2: that he's going to reign in heaven. It says that
[1:04:15] Speaker 2: he's going to be on the throne of King David.
[1:04:19] Speaker 4: Claim yours.
[1:04:20] Speaker 1: We're talking about.
[1:04:20] Speaker 2: Jeremiah thirty three. Focus up, g man, j man. We
[1:04:25] Speaker 2: need you to lock in and pay attention to what
[1:04:27] Speaker 2: Jeremiah thirty three is saying.
[1:04:30] Speaker 4: It's hard for me to make a claim because you
[1:04:31] Speaker 4: keep making them for me.
[1:04:32] Speaker 1: But lock in. I'm asking what in this verse came true?
[1:04:40] Speaker 4: Okay, so I'll say it is real, So a light
[1:04:41] Speaker 4: for you. Okay. Jesus is the Messiah.
[1:04:44] Speaker 2: We'll try this again when he walked the earth. So
[1:04:46] Speaker 2: g men, jemen Jamen predicted that. Ja men, open your
[1:04:51] Speaker 2: bible to Jeremiah thirty three. I don't want an explanation.
[1:04:55] Speaker 2: I want you to tell me. I want you to
[1:04:57] Speaker 2: tell me. I want you to tell me which versus,
[1:05:02] Speaker 2: which words in this prophecy came true.
[1:05:05] Speaker 4: I don't have to do that.
[1:05:06] Speaker 2: Okay, so none of them came true? Just checking.
[1:05:09] Speaker 1: Cool.
[1:05:10] Speaker 2: Let's also go to Ezekiel thirty seven, because Ezekiel thirty
[1:05:14] Speaker 2: seven is another case where we have like pretty clear
[1:05:18] Speaker 2: explicit references to the Messiah. And just so you know,
[1:05:24] Speaker 2: just so you know, g man, the more you talk
[1:05:26] Speaker 2: while I'm talking, all you're doing is wasting your breath.
[1:05:28] Speaker 2: No one can hear you. My microphone is louder than yours.
[1:05:31] Speaker 2: All you're doing is sounding silly in the background of
[1:05:33] Speaker 2: me talking. So if you want people to actually hear
[1:05:36] Speaker 2: what you say, I highly recommend that you don't yap
[1:05:42] Speaker 2: over top of me. So no one watches your channel.
[1:05:47] Speaker 2: All five of them don't care. So in Ezekiel thirty
[1:05:50] Speaker 2: seven says my servant David shall be king over them,
[1:05:53] Speaker 2: and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow
[1:05:56] Speaker 2: my ordinances and be careful to observe my statutes. They
[1:06:00] Speaker 2: shall live in the land that I gave to my
[1:06:01] Speaker 2: servant Jacob, in which your ancestors lived. They and their
[1:06:04] Speaker 2: children and their children's children shall live there forever, and
[1:06:08] Speaker 2: my servant David shall be their prince forever. Now, according
[1:06:11] Speaker 2: to this passage, what was supposed to happen with the Messiah.
[1:06:15] Speaker 10: According to you, Jesus never existed, and God doesn't exist.
[1:06:20] Speaker 2: Jee man, I don't know why you can't focus. I've never,
[1:06:24] Speaker 2: literally never made the claim that Jesus never existed. Try
[1:06:27] Speaker 2: to focus on the passage at hand. Try to focus
[1:06:31] Speaker 2: on the passage at hand. This is an internal critique.
[1:06:35] Speaker 2: I'm going into your book and I'm critiquing the claims
[1:06:40] Speaker 2: of the book. So the claims of the book is
[1:06:42] Speaker 2: that the Messiah is going to be king over the
[1:06:46] Speaker 2: Israelites and is going to bring them back into the
[1:06:49] Speaker 2: land and allow them to live safely in the land.
[1:06:52] Speaker 1: Did Jesus do that?
[1:06:54] Speaker 4: That's going to happen in the future.
[1:06:55] Speaker 1: Okay, so he didn't do that.
[1:06:57] Speaker 4: He goes again, twenty seconds, actually twelve seconds.
[1:07:00] Speaker 1: Did he do it? It's a yes or no? Did
[1:07:03] Speaker 1: he do this?
[1:07:05] Speaker 4: Yes? He did?
[1:07:06] Speaker 1: Oh, show me, show me, show me where he did it.
[1:07:10] Speaker 2: Revelation hasn't happened yet in your worldview. So I'm asking you,
[1:07:14] Speaker 2: did it come true yet? I'm not asking you if
[1:07:17] Speaker 2: you think it will come true. I'm asking you, did
[1:07:19] Speaker 2: it actually come true? So if it didn't come true
[1:07:22] Speaker 2: yet because you think it's going to happen in the future,
[1:07:24] Speaker 2: that just means it didn't come true.
[1:07:27] Speaker 4: No, it did happen in the no.
[1:07:29] Speaker 2: No, it didn't happen in the future because the future
[1:07:31] Speaker 2: hasn't happened yet.
[1:07:33] Speaker 4: No, I can explain how it happened.
[1:07:35] Speaker 2: Try again, the future has not happened. Man, Has the
[1:07:42] Speaker 2: future happened yet?
[1:07:45] Speaker 1: Oh?
[1:07:46] Speaker 4: God, this is funny anyway.
[1:07:47] Speaker 2: So Jiman, if you would answer a question, I wouldn't
[1:07:49] Speaker 2: have to talk over you.
[1:07:51] Speaker 4: Let me answer the question.
[1:07:53] Speaker 1: Has the future happened yet? It's yes or no. It's
[1:07:57] Speaker 1: yes or no.
[1:07:58] Speaker 4: G Man.
[1:07:59] Speaker 1: It's yes no, g Man, Yes or no, g Man.
[1:08:04] Speaker 2: It's a yes or no it has the future happened?
[1:08:07] Speaker 2: It's a yes or no it has the future happened.
[1:08:10] Speaker 2: It's a yes or no it has the future happened?
[1:08:13] Speaker 2: It's a yes or no. Waiting for a yes or
[1:08:15] Speaker 2: no again I said yes, Say okay, the future has
[1:08:19] Speaker 2: happened again?
[1:08:21] Speaker 1: Yes, okay. I want to make sure everyone.
[1:08:25] Speaker 4: Yes, you keep telling people. I'm not answering, so.
[1:08:27] Speaker 2: I just want to make sure everyone heard the answer.
[1:08:30] Speaker 2: Because he's still yapping because he doesn't have any self control.
[1:08:33] Speaker 2: He said that the future has already happened. Now that's great,
[1:08:39] Speaker 2: So can you explain to me? Can you explain to
[1:08:42] Speaker 2: me how the future has already happened.
[1:08:44] Speaker 4: Okay.
[1:08:44] Speaker 10: So if you go to the Book of Revelation, right,
[1:08:47] Speaker 10: the Bible predicts what's gonna happen.
[1:08:48] Speaker 4: When Jesus Christ returns. We know this. Here we go,
[1:08:53] Speaker 4: here we go.
[1:08:53] Speaker 2: Okay.
[1:08:54] Speaker 10: So when Jesus Christ returns, he's going to reign for
[1:08:56] Speaker 10: one thousand years, okay. And when he reigned for one
[1:09:00] Speaker 10: thousand years, he would be sitting on what the throne
[1:09:03] Speaker 10: of David. Remember earlier, when I talked about the dual prophecy,
[1:09:07] Speaker 10: there was the prophecies that he was supposed to he
[1:09:09] Speaker 10: was supposed to fulfill in his lifetime, and then this
[1:09:11] Speaker 10: a prophecy he's gonna fulfill in the future.
[1:09:14] Speaker 1: Just not what a dual prophecy is, yes, Fish.
[1:09:18] Speaker 10: Because you never studied an assassinate thinking that Jesus had
[1:09:21] Speaker 10: to fulfill all of those prophecies.
[1:09:22] Speaker 1: Didn't do any prophecies zero zero prophecies zero yes he
[1:09:28] Speaker 1: did zero yes, zerom yes, zero zero zero.
[1:09:33] Speaker 4: Tell me something. He also said that the Bible doesn't
[1:09:35] Speaker 4: any prophecy.
[1:09:36] Speaker 2: I bet, I bet you can't show me a single
[1:09:38] Speaker 2: prophecy he fulfilled. Sixty eight definite Deuteronomy, twenty eight Buonomy.
[1:09:50] Speaker 2: That's the blessing, and that's the blessing. That's the blessing
[1:09:56] Speaker 2: and curses that came upon them with the Babylonians. Dummy,
[1:10:02] Speaker 2: Yeah no, no, so okay, just this. Are you aware
[1:10:07] Speaker 2: the blessings and cursings from Deuteronomy twenty eight and Leviticus
[1:10:11] Speaker 2: twenty six are about the Babylonians.
[1:10:15] Speaker 1: No, it isn't it is? Wait?
[1:10:18] Speaker 10: I mean you're saying Deuterom sixty eight. Yeah, the curs
[1:10:21] Speaker 10: in the blessing. Yeah, so read it.
[1:10:22] Speaker 2: Then it's about the exile. It's about the exile in Babylon.
[1:10:28] Speaker 4: And read it.
[1:10:30] Speaker 1: Jesus, you can't help us.
[1:10:32] Speaker 4: Read it.
[1:10:33] Speaker 1: Well, Jesus didn't give this prediction.
[1:10:35] Speaker 2: Just so you're aware, this is This is written by
[1:10:38] Speaker 2: yahweh Well, theoretically written by Moses. Says, the Lord will
[1:10:42] Speaker 2: bring you back in ships to Egypt by a route
[1:10:45] Speaker 2: that I promised that you would never see again, and
[1:10:48] Speaker 2: there you shall offer yourselves for sale to your enemies
[1:10:51] Speaker 2: as male and female slaves, but there will be no buyer,
[1:10:54] Speaker 2: which is clearly a reference to the Babylonian exile, which
[1:10:58] Speaker 2: is why Jeremiah says the exact same thing. If you bothered,
[1:11:01] Speaker 2: you read Jeremiah. Jeremiah says that you will go into Egypt. Iran,
[1:11:08] Speaker 2: it it just got crazy, all right. So I'll explain
[1:11:12] Speaker 2: it to you, g Man, since you haven't actually read
[1:11:14] Speaker 2: the Bible. So in the Book of Jeremiah, he tells
[1:11:16] Speaker 2: you that a bunch of you are going to be
[1:11:17] Speaker 2: held captive. You're going to escape captivity by going into Egypt.
[1:11:22] Speaker 1: Have you not read Jeremiah? Abalon?
[1:11:25] Speaker 4: Have you?
[1:11:25] Speaker 1: Have you?
[1:11:26] Speaker 2: Have you not read Jeremiah? So you haven't read Jeremiah?
[1:11:32] Speaker 2: Just checking it was not they They certainly certainly was
[1:11:38] Speaker 2: not fulfilled in seventy a d.
[1:11:40] Speaker 4: Yes, it was.
[1:11:41] Speaker 1: No, it certainly was not. So what happened in seventy
[1:11:46] Speaker 1: a d.
[1:11:47] Speaker 2: Is that Titus vest Pasian came into Jerusalem and waved
[1:11:51] Speaker 2: war against Jerusalem and put them to the sword. G Man,
[1:11:56] Speaker 2: I don't know if you can take five seconds to
[1:11:58] Speaker 2: listen to my answer.
[1:12:00] Speaker 1: So in seventy about so in seventy a d.
[1:12:05] Speaker 2: Titus Vespasian marched into Jerusalem, besieged the city, and then
[1:12:10] Speaker 2: conquered the city. And guess what, he didn't exile the Hebrews.
[1:12:15] Speaker 2: He didn't exile the Jews. That didn't happen until the
[1:12:18] Speaker 2: reign of Hadrian. That's when that happened, around one thirty six.
[1:12:23] Speaker 2: Way later, seventy years later, we've got the diaspora of
[1:12:27] Speaker 2: the Jews, not even close to seventy.
[1:12:31] Speaker 4: That happened in seventy.
[1:12:33] Speaker 1: The projection's crazy. The projection's crazy.
[1:12:39] Speaker 4: You don't know what she's talking about.
[1:12:41] Speaker 2: Okay, So it's okay. If you've never actually studied the Bible,
[1:12:44] Speaker 2: we all know this. It's fine.
[1:12:47] Speaker 4: Oh man, Jesus wasn't a fraud. You just don't understand scripture.
[1:12:50] Speaker 4: You just don't want sand scripture.
[1:12:51] Speaker 2: But I understand it, which is why you're up here struggling.
[1:12:54] Speaker 2: You're under struggle bus right now to find anything, to
[1:12:58] Speaker 2: find anything that to find anything that Jesus actually fulfilled.
[1:13:03] Speaker 2: But not only do you not understand, not only do
[1:13:07] Speaker 2: you not understand, not only do.
[1:13:09] Speaker 4: You not not only do you.
[1:13:12] Speaker 2: Not only do you not understand what's happening in Deuteronomy
[1:13:15] Speaker 2: twenty eight. It wasn't fulfilled by Jesus. This is the
[1:13:18] Speaker 2: other problem. And if you bother to read Deuteronomy twenty eight,
[1:13:23] Speaker 2: the punishments in this chapter is when they don't follow
[1:13:27] Speaker 2: the commandments of God. This has nothing to do with
[1:13:29] Speaker 2: the Messiah. Listen for one second to the beginning. Listen
[1:13:34] Speaker 2: listen for one second to the beginning of Deuteronomy twenty eight.
[1:13:37] Speaker 2: This is why it's about the captivity, says, if you
[1:13:41] Speaker 2: will only obey the Lord your God by diligently observing
[1:13:44] Speaker 2: all of his commandments that I'm commanding you today, the
[1:13:46] Speaker 2: Lord your God will set you high above the nations
[1:13:48] Speaker 2: of the earth. All these blessings shall come upon you
[1:13:51] Speaker 2: and overtake you if you obey the Lord your God.
[1:13:55] Speaker 2: This is about obeying the commandments of God. There's nothing
[1:13:58] Speaker 2: to do with accepting the Messiah. I am so that
[1:14:01] Speaker 2: this isn't This isn't helpful. You have no idea what
[1:14:04] Speaker 2: you're reading right now. And if you bother to read
[1:14:05] Speaker 2: the Old Testament, God tells you when he sends them
[1:14:09] Speaker 2: into Babylonian captivity, it's because they disobeyed the commands of God.
[1:14:14] Speaker 2: There are two captivities, one in Assyria and one in Babylon,
[1:14:19] Speaker 2: and both of them are because they disobeyed the commands
[1:14:23] Speaker 2: of God.
[1:14:24] Speaker 1: So I'm still waiting for one prophecy Jesus.
[1:14:27] Speaker 10: Fulfilled doons he actually predicted that was actually gonna happen.
[1:14:33] Speaker 1: First of all, he didn't. He didn't. He didn't predict it.
[1:14:35] Speaker 2: Not only did he not predict not only did he
[1:14:38] Speaker 2: not not only did he not predict it, he didn't
[1:14:43] Speaker 2: make any of it come true. That's that's nonsense. Now
[1:14:47] Speaker 2: you mentioned the virgin birth. I'd love to go over
[1:14:50] Speaker 2: Isaiah seven with you because I can guarantee you've never
[1:14:52] Speaker 2: read Isaiah seven.
[1:14:54] Speaker 1: So let's let's go over. So let's go. G man,
[1:15:00] Speaker 1: do you ever do you ever stop talking? Or no?
[1:15:04] Speaker 1: Just so you were I know you've got I know
[1:15:07] Speaker 1: you've got five.
[1:15:10] Speaker 2: So I know you've got five people watching on your channel,
[1:15:13] Speaker 2: but on my channel you've got over two thousand people watching.
[1:15:16] Speaker 1: You make a fool of yourself.
[1:15:17] Speaker 2: So if you want to be taken seriously, we could
[1:15:20] Speaker 2: actually read a passage together when you're done crashing out.
[1:15:23] Speaker 1: You want to do you want to read a passage?
[1:15:29] Speaker 1: G man? Do you want to read a passage? G Man?
[1:15:32] Speaker 1: Do you want to read a passage? G men? Do
[1:15:36] Speaker 1: you want to read a passage?
[1:15:38] Speaker 4: Yeah?
[1:15:39] Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about the supposed Let's talk about the
[1:15:42] Speaker 2: supposed virgin birth. What's happening in Isaiah chapter seven? What's
[1:15:49] Speaker 2: happening in Isaiah seven.
[1:15:52] Speaker 4: For God so loved the world that he gave us.
[1:15:54] Speaker 2: G Man, I don't know why your brain isn't capable
[1:15:58] Speaker 2: of staying on topic. I don't know what's happening over there.
[1:16:02] Speaker 2: I don't know if you're on edibles or what. But
[1:16:04] Speaker 2: if you're going to participate in this conversation, I need
[1:16:06] Speaker 2: you to pay attention to what's happening in the conversation.
[1:16:10] Speaker 1: You think you're you think you're capable of doing that.
[1:16:12] Speaker 4: Do you think you're capable of not grandstanding?
[1:16:15] Speaker 1: I'm not grandstanding.
[1:16:16] Speaker 2: I'm asking you, do you want to read the prophecy
[1:16:18] Speaker 2: that you brought up?
[1:16:20] Speaker 1: Committing man? Do you want to read the prophecy you mentioned?
[1:16:27] Speaker 4: Anyway?
[1:16:27] Speaker 10: You asked me that I want to read a Bible verse.
[1:16:29] Speaker 10: I started quoting a verse. You didn't let me do it.
[1:16:31] Speaker 2: No, No, you brought up the virgin birth, and I
[1:16:34] Speaker 2: asked you if you would like to read Isaiah seven
[1:16:37] Speaker 2: with me concerning the virgin birth, because what we're.
[1:16:39] Speaker 1: Talking about.
[1:16:43] Speaker 2: Was g Man, the reason why you get muted everywhere
[1:16:45] Speaker 2: you go is because you don't let anyone speak. If
[1:16:49] Speaker 2: you've actually paid attention to my conversations, I don't have
[1:16:52] Speaker 2: to mute people when they behave appropriately, but I do
[1:16:55] Speaker 2: have to mute cowards like you that won't let me speak.
[1:16:58] Speaker 2: And you want to continuously jump ship to new topics.
[1:17:01] Speaker 2: Now you brought up the virgin birth in Isaiah seven.
[1:17:05] Speaker 2: Alls I'm asking is would you like to read? Would
[1:17:09] Speaker 2: you like to read? Would you like to read? Would
[1:17:13] Speaker 2: you like to read the virgin birth? Remember, we're still talking.
[1:17:18] Speaker 2: We're still talking about the prophecies that Jesus fulfilled. We're
[1:17:23] Speaker 2: still talking about the prophecies Jesus fufilled. Well, you don't
[1:17:27] Speaker 2: get to choose. We're talking about the prophecies right now.
[1:17:30] Speaker 2: I know because it's not your live stream. G man,
[1:17:33] Speaker 2: you're you're on my live stream. We're talking about a
[1:17:36] Speaker 2: specific topic.
[1:17:38] Speaker 4: And you're being done over and over easy.
[1:17:41] Speaker 2: G Man, you're embarrassing yourself and your entire lineage right now.
[1:17:45] Speaker 2: I hope your mother doesn't watch this. She's going to
[1:17:48] Speaker 2: be embarrassed for you.
[1:17:50] Speaker 10: My mother will be just fine because my mother's not here.
[1:17:52] Speaker 10: She's with Jesus. I dare you to make a disrespectful statement, though.
[1:17:55] Speaker 2: Why would I make a disrespectful statement about your mother?
[1:17:59] Speaker 2: When if I ever I've literally never disrespected a person's mother.
[1:18:06] Speaker 2: I will disrespect you because you're because you're disrespectful, I'll
[1:18:10] Speaker 2: disrespect you all day. I would never say, I would
[1:18:13] Speaker 2: say I would never say anything about your mother.
[1:18:15] Speaker 1: Now, very passionate Christian. Yeah, yeah, you call it passionate.
[1:18:19] Speaker 2: So the question that at hand right now, g Man
[1:18:22] Speaker 2: is still, would you like to read the prophecy about
[1:18:26] Speaker 2: Jesus that you brought up?
[1:18:31] Speaker 4: Don't worry?
[1:18:34] Speaker 2: Okay, I heard a no. The answer is no, you
[1:18:37] Speaker 2: don't want to read the passage?
[1:18:39] Speaker 1: Okay.
[1:18:41] Speaker 2: I told you the reason why G Man doesn't come
[1:18:43] Speaker 2: on people's teams because he doesn't know how to conversation. So, oh,
[1:18:48] Speaker 2: come back when you grow up, g Man. Okay, all right,
[1:18:50] Speaker 2: let's grab another couple of super chests. We'll get our
[1:18:53] Speaker 2: next guests in here. Uh W three says if Jesus
[1:18:56] Speaker 2: was killed because people didn't like what he was saying,
[1:18:59] Speaker 2: could he call could you call him the first celebrity
[1:19:03] Speaker 2: victim of cancel culture? I don't know if I would.
[1:19:06] Speaker 2: I wouldn't call him canceled. I think he probably said
[1:19:11] Speaker 2: a lot of shit that was against the law, got
[1:19:13] Speaker 2: himself killed. Can't break the law like that, and Stephen
[1:19:17] Speaker 2: says Jesus was crucified during Easter holidays. Who crucifies anyone
[1:19:21] Speaker 2: during Easter holidays? Disgraceful? No wonder he was so hung up.
[1:19:26] Speaker 1: That's good.
[1:19:26] Speaker 2: But gotta remember there was no Easter yet. Easter didn't
[1:19:30] Speaker 2: happen yet. Although don't consult the King James Bible. If
[1:19:34] Speaker 2: you read Acts in the King James Bible, it says
[1:19:37] Speaker 2: that Easter is there. I think that's something like chapter four,
[1:19:41] Speaker 2: four twelve, maybe Acts four to twelve that I remember
[1:19:44] Speaker 2: that correctly. Someone checked me on that. I'll check it.
[1:19:48] Speaker 2: Acts four to twelve. Nope, not four to twelve. Is
[1:19:55] Speaker 2: it twelve four? No, twelve four? Not four twelve. I
[1:20:07] Speaker 2: was close.
[1:20:08] Speaker 1: I was close.
[1:20:09] Speaker 2: Friends, My brain doesn't always grab it just right. Sometimes
[1:20:13] Speaker 2: they do, sometimes it don't.
[1:20:17] Speaker 1: How do I get rid of this super child?
[1:20:19] Speaker 3: On?
[1:20:21] Speaker 1: There we go. So there's a really fun thing in
[1:20:24] Speaker 1: the King James Bible for those who don't know. If
[1:20:26] Speaker 1: you go to Acts.
[1:20:30] Speaker 2: Where it says intending to bring him out to the
[1:20:33] Speaker 2: people after the Passover, where it says passover. In like
[1:20:37] Speaker 2: ninety nine percent of all the Bibles in King James
[1:20:41] Speaker 2: it says Easter. But the word pasca in Greek does
[1:20:47] Speaker 2: not mean easter. They had they had to do some
[1:20:49] Speaker 2: work on that one.
[1:20:50] Speaker 1: All right, let's.
[1:20:51] Speaker 2: Get let's get let's get our next guest in here.
[1:21:00] Speaker 2: We're gonna bring al in from the YouTube. Q. How
[1:21:03] Speaker 2: you do it now, ser Yeah?
[1:21:08] Speaker 1: Can hear you?
[1:21:10] Speaker 4: Sorry, I'm second to traffic.
[1:21:12] Speaker 1: How are you driving right now?
[1:21:15] Speaker 4: Yeah?
[1:21:16] Speaker 2: Rybuddy, you gotta not be driving when you come on
[1:21:18] Speaker 2: the live. Okay, okay, when you get a free spot later,
[1:21:22] Speaker 2: come on back.
[1:21:24] Speaker 3: Sounds good.
[1:21:26] Speaker 2: I don't know why they do that. You guys don't
[1:21:28] Speaker 2: drive in live. It's dangerous. It's dangerous.
[1:21:33] Speaker 1: All right, let me grab our broach, maybe our broach.
[1:21:44] Speaker 2: I think their connection is too bad. I don't think
[1:21:45] Speaker 2: they're gonna be able to make it in. If you're
[1:21:47] Speaker 2: watching the live stream, there is a link to get
[1:21:50] Speaker 2: in in the description of the video.
[1:21:51] Speaker 1: It's also on the screen.
[1:21:53] Speaker 2: To be a guest, you go to tiny dot com
[1:21:55] Speaker 2: sorry tiny yeurul dot com for lash d or guest dz,
[1:22:00] Speaker 2: or click the link in the description. Also, if you're
[1:22:03] Speaker 2: watching on TikTok, just hit the guest request button.
[1:22:06] Speaker 1: And you'll be in. Let's grab our next guest. It
[1:22:09] Speaker 1: looks like it's going to be Terrence. Welcome in, Terrence.
[1:22:15] Speaker 4: Hey, good to be here, Terrence.
[1:22:17] Speaker 1: Are you at least eighteen and are you a believer? Yes?
[1:22:20] Speaker 4: I am both.
[1:22:22] Speaker 1: Awesome and uh do you believe? I'm sorry?
[1:22:26] Speaker 2: Do you agree or disagree with the statement on the screen?
[1:22:31] Speaker 5: Well?
[1:22:31] Speaker 7: I agree that all the prophecies that are in the Bible,
[1:22:36] Speaker 7: that Jesus did not fulfill all of them some of them.
[1:22:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, which ones?
[1:22:47] Speaker 4: The one with the virgin birth?
[1:22:49] Speaker 1: You had it just about that?
[1:22:52] Speaker 4: He did not let you talk about it.
[1:22:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, you want to talk about it?
[1:22:57] Speaker 7: Yeah, you were interrupted all the time all the Yeah,
[1:23:01] Speaker 7: he did not let you speak.
[1:23:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a man.
[1:23:06] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:23:07] Speaker 7: The version bird is the one I believe in, and
[1:23:10] Speaker 7: I think that's the biggest one.
[1:23:14] Speaker 1: Sure. Do you know what's happening in Isiah chapter seven?
[1:23:19] Speaker 4: Well, I must be honest.
[1:23:20] Speaker 7: I only have read the New Testament most of the time,
[1:23:24] Speaker 7: so I will grab it right away.
[1:23:26] Speaker 1: What did you say?
[1:23:28] Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead, if you've got a Bible on you,
[1:23:29] Speaker 2: flip open to Isaiah seven.
[1:23:35] Speaker 1: Just give me a moment.
[1:23:37] Speaker 5: I say, yeah, seven.
[1:23:40] Speaker 1: Yes, okay.
[1:23:42] Speaker 2: Now, the background of Isaiah seven is it's like seven
[1:23:45] Speaker 2: thirty seven to twenty five BCE, and the King of
[1:23:49] Speaker 2: Judah that day has he's getting attacked by two other kings.
[1:23:53] Speaker 2: The Israelites in the north have made an alliance with
[1:23:56] Speaker 2: the Arabians. They're just on the other side of Samascus,
[1:24:01] Speaker 2: so they made it an alliance, and they don't like
[1:24:03] Speaker 2: the Judean king because the Judean king is against the alliance,
[1:24:08] Speaker 2: so they go in and they try to wipe them out.
[1:24:10] Speaker 2: It says in the days of AHAs, son of Joatham's
[1:24:12] Speaker 2: son of Isaiah, King of Judah, King Reason of Aram,
[1:24:15] Speaker 2: and King Pacas, son of Vermalia of Israel went up
[1:24:18] Speaker 2: to attack Jerusalem, but they could not conquer it. Then
[1:24:21] Speaker 2: I'm sorry. When the House of David heard that Aram
[1:24:24] Speaker 2: had allied itself with Ephrium, the heart of AHAs and
[1:24:27] Speaker 2: a heart of his people shook as the trees of
[1:24:29] Speaker 2: the forest before the wind. So that's kind of the
[1:24:32] Speaker 2: setting that we're in immediately, is that, Okay, there's a
[1:24:36] Speaker 2: war happening and the people are terrified. So God sends
[1:24:40] Speaker 2: Isaiah to give the first prophecy that ends in verse nine,
[1:24:44] Speaker 2: and the prophecy is basically, hey, buck up, God's with you.
[1:24:48] Speaker 1: It's gonna be okay.
[1:24:49] Speaker 2: He ends the prophecy by saying, if you do not
[1:24:51] Speaker 2: stand firm in faith, you shall not stand at all. Right,
[1:24:54] Speaker 2: So the goal here, the whole goal, is to give
[1:24:58] Speaker 2: the king and the people some reassurance that it's going
[1:25:02] Speaker 2: to be okay during the war. So then the second
[1:25:04] Speaker 2: part of the prophecy is where the supposed virgin birth is.
[1:25:09] Speaker 2: And it says again the Lord spoke to AHAs ask
[1:25:11] Speaker 2: a sign of the Lord, ry God, and let it
[1:25:13] Speaker 2: be as deep as shield or as high as heaven.
[1:25:15] Speaker 2: But a has said, I will not ask, and I
[1:25:17] Speaker 2: will not put the Lord to the test. Then Isaiah said,
[1:25:20] Speaker 2: here then, o house of David, is it too little
[1:25:22] Speaker 2: for you to weary mortals that you weary my God?
[1:25:25] Speaker 2: Also therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look,
[1:25:29] Speaker 2: the young woman is with child and shall bear a son,
[1:25:31] Speaker 2: and shall name him Emmanuel. He shall eat kurds and honey.
[1:25:34] Speaker 2: By the time he knows how to refuse the evil
[1:25:36] Speaker 2: and choose the good, or before the child knows how
[1:25:40] Speaker 2: to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land
[1:25:43] Speaker 2: before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted.
[1:25:48] Speaker 2: But I think the prophecy is pretty easy to suss out.
[1:25:51] Speaker 2: He's saying, there's a child that's already been conceived before
[1:25:54] Speaker 2: that child is old enough to know right from wrong.
[1:25:57] Speaker 2: The two kings that are attacking you, the land are
[1:26:00] Speaker 2: going to be laid waste. Did I interpret that correctly?
[1:26:06] Speaker 1: I guess so?
[1:26:08] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:26:09] Speaker 4: Right.
[1:26:09] Speaker 2: So I don't see anything in this about a virgin birth.
[1:26:14] Speaker 2: I don't see anything about a Messiah. I don't see
[1:26:16] Speaker 2: anything of that sort in here. And if you keep
[1:26:19] Speaker 2: reading the rest of the chapter, in chapter eight, the
[1:26:22] Speaker 2: prophecy basically comes true, like within the lifetime of King
[1:26:26] Speaker 2: a Hans.
[1:26:29] Speaker 7: So you also claim because in the New Testament it
[1:26:33] Speaker 7: will say, Mary, you will bear a son, and you
[1:26:37] Speaker 7: will name him im Manuel. So that part that's right
[1:26:42] Speaker 7: here in for fourteen it's supposed to. It's not compatible.
[1:26:49] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not compatible. I'll tell you why it shows
[1:26:51] Speaker 2: up in Matthew. So they had a Greek translation of
[1:26:56] Speaker 2: the Old Testament. They certainly couldn't read Hebrew. And when
[1:27:01] Speaker 2: they did the Greek translation of the Old Testament, they
[1:27:03] Speaker 2: did something that was fine at the time they translated it,
[1:27:06] Speaker 2: but Matthew didn't understand it. So in the Hebrew translator
[1:27:10] Speaker 2: or the Greek translation, they used parthenos rather than young woman.
[1:27:15] Speaker 2: That's Alma in Hebrew. They used parthenos in Greek. Now,
[1:27:19] Speaker 2: parthenos could have meant a young woman, could have meant
[1:27:22] Speaker 2: a virgin. It's got a wide semantic range, right, We
[1:27:25] Speaker 2: see it elsewhere, like in Genesis thirty four, we see
[1:27:28] Speaker 2: it used of somebody who's not a virgin. We also
[1:27:31] Speaker 2: see the same thing in the works of Homer. However,
[1:27:34] Speaker 2: by the time Matthew lived, the word had shifted in
[1:27:38] Speaker 2: culture a little bit, and it was usually almost exclusively
[1:27:41] Speaker 2: used of people who were virgins. Right that being said Matthew,
[1:27:46] Speaker 2: looking at this passage, saw a supposed virgin giving birth,
[1:27:51] Speaker 2: and he's like, it's a miracle. It's got to be
[1:27:54] Speaker 2: about Jesus. But the reality is, nothing in the prophecy
[1:27:58] Speaker 2: is about Jesus, not even about Aah. It's just saying
[1:28:01] Speaker 2: that there is a woman who's already pregnant, she's about
[1:28:04] Speaker 2: to give birth, and this is a.
[1:28:07] Speaker 1: Sign for King AHAs.
[1:28:08] Speaker 2: The sign is before this child is old enough to
[1:28:11] Speaker 2: know right from wrong, I'm going to wipe out these
[1:28:14] Speaker 2: two armies. And the Emmanuel is in reference to the
[1:28:18] Speaker 2: prophetic name the Emmanuel is not saying that the child
[1:28:23] Speaker 2: is God. That's not what it's saying. If you read
[1:28:26] Speaker 2: chapter eight, as the prophecy comes true, the prophet himself
[1:28:30] Speaker 2: cries out twice, Emmanuel, Emmanuel. So we get it first
[1:28:34] Speaker 2: here when the war is taking place. The Assyrians come
[1:28:39] Speaker 2: in and they're wreaking havoc, but they're also wiping out
[1:28:42] Speaker 2: the enemies. He says, Oh, Emmanuel, take notice you people's
[1:28:46] Speaker 2: and be dismayed. Listen, all you far off countries. Gird
[1:28:49] Speaker 2: yourselves and be dismayed. Take counsel together, but it shall
[1:28:53] Speaker 2: be brought to not speak a word, but it will
[1:28:55] Speaker 2: not stand for God is with us.
[1:28:58] Speaker 1: Emmanuel. Right.
[1:28:59] Speaker 2: So I'm reading the passage and I don't see anything
[1:29:02] Speaker 2: about a Messiah, like a messianic god man being born
[1:29:05] Speaker 2: to a virgin.
[1:29:08] Speaker 7: Can you help me a little bit? Switch where in
[1:29:11] Speaker 7: chapter eight do you see that.
[1:29:13] Speaker 2: Which first verse eight, nine and ten. Yeah, And so
[1:29:20] Speaker 2: all of the children born to Isaiah had prophetic names.
[1:29:26] Speaker 2: The names weren't representative of the child itself. Typically, it
[1:29:31] Speaker 2: was representative about what God was doing.
[1:29:40] Speaker 1: Do you have Helen the moment? My wife is Colleen?
[1:29:57] Speaker 1: See if he comes back in this second.
[1:30:07] Speaker 4: Sorry about it we come back.
[1:30:12] Speaker 7: I'm also feeding my baby at the moment.
[1:30:15] Speaker 1: I get it. You gotta feed the baby. Yeah, it's important,
[1:30:20] Speaker 1: so right, yeah, So.
[1:30:23] Speaker 2: You probably see in the passage there's really not much
[1:30:26] Speaker 2: to be had here about a virgin birth.
[1:30:28] Speaker 1: Right, No, that it's true.
[1:30:33] Speaker 7: Only the first in seven you see a little bit
[1:30:38] Speaker 7: behold the virtuin sell conceive embarrass song.
[1:30:41] Speaker 4: That's that's the only part in the whole chapter. Well.
[1:30:46] Speaker 2: Yeah, and the problem is in the original Hebrew doesn't
[1:30:49] Speaker 2: say virgin, right, it just says, look, the young woman
[1:30:52] Speaker 2: is with child. And surely if you read it in
[1:30:56] Speaker 2: the Hebrew, texas exactly what it says. It's as almahrah,
[1:31:02] Speaker 2: which means a pregnant young woman in Hebrew.
[1:31:06] Speaker 7: Okay, Well, I do not know Hebrew, so I will
[1:31:10] Speaker 7: for now take your word on it.
[1:31:11] Speaker 2: It's okay, So I don't read this as being about Jesus,
[1:31:16] Speaker 2: which means Matthew is obviously mistaken.
[1:31:18] Speaker 7: Right, Well, I still disagree with it. It is because
[1:31:27] Speaker 7: I'm ignorant to be fair.
[1:31:30] Speaker 2: Well, you're, I mean, like all of us, you're learning, right,
[1:31:32] Speaker 2: I think everybody is in some stage of learning.
[1:31:36] Speaker 1: So, and it's for myself as well.
[1:31:38] Speaker 2: You know I'm always still learning as well, like I
[1:31:40] Speaker 2: can't claim to know all things. Let's go over another
[1:31:44] Speaker 2: good example of like prophecy that people are convinced is
[1:31:49] Speaker 2: related to Jesus, but you know, once you read it,
[1:31:52] Speaker 2: it's not so clear. So you've probably heard this quotation
[1:31:57] Speaker 2: before in reference to Jesus fulfilling prophecy, because this shows
[1:32:00] Speaker 2: up in Matthew chapter two, and it says here in
[1:32:05] Speaker 2: Hoseiah eleven one and two, when Israel was a child,
[1:32:09] Speaker 2: I loved him, but out of Egypt I called my son.
[1:32:11] Speaker 2: The more I called them, the more they went from me.
[1:32:14] Speaker 2: They kept sacrificing to the balls and offering incense to idols.
[1:32:19] Speaker 2: Now I'm reading this and I'm thinking, oh, well, this
[1:32:21] Speaker 2: is just a history lesson. This is about the Exodus.
[1:32:24] Speaker 2: When God called his firstborn son. That's Exodus, chapter four,
[1:32:28] Speaker 2: verse twenty two, called his first born son out of Egypt.
[1:32:31] Speaker 2: And then what they do. They immediately strayed. They immediately
[1:32:34] Speaker 2: started worshiping a golden calf.
[1:32:35] Speaker 1: Right.
[1:32:36] Speaker 2: So like, if I'm looking at this this part of
[1:32:39] Speaker 2: the text, it clearly is not a prophecy.
[1:32:41] Speaker 1: Is it.
[1:32:43] Speaker 7: I totally agree because Eugenial Destamonds more in evidence that
[1:32:50] Speaker 7: God calling some one his son, right, it doesn't have
[1:32:53] Speaker 7: to be the Jesus and the Yeah, I think it's
[1:33:01] Speaker 7: good debatable in the yeah, that prophecy.
[1:33:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think so I'll show you how Matthew
[1:33:08] Speaker 2: uses it. Right, So when they're warned by dream of
[1:33:13] Speaker 2: what's going to happen, they go to Egypt. It says
[1:33:14] Speaker 2: when Joseph got up. Then Joseph got up, took the
[1:33:17] Speaker 2: child and his mother by night, and went to Egypt
[1:33:19] Speaker 2: and remained there until the death of Herod. This was
[1:33:22] Speaker 2: to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through
[1:33:24] Speaker 2: the prophet. Out of Egypt, I've called my son. But like,
[1:33:28] Speaker 2: if you're reading Hoseah eleven, there's no reason why you
[1:33:31] Speaker 2: would take that to be a prophecy. So like Matthew
[1:33:34] Speaker 2: is out of his mind here.
[1:33:42] Speaker 7: Well, it's an interesting statement, and clearly I haven't read
[1:33:46] Speaker 7: the diable.
[1:33:46] Speaker 1: Fully right, So it's good.
[1:33:50] Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's a tough one. And so like I
[1:33:54] Speaker 2: was reading these prophecies many years ago when I was
[1:33:58] Speaker 2: still a Christian, and I knew, like even before I
[1:34:01] Speaker 2: started Bible College, I knew that some prophecies like Isaiah
[1:34:05] Speaker 2: seven and.
[1:34:08] Speaker 1: Even Isaiah fifty three.
[1:34:10] Speaker 2: I already knew that the only way to make those
[1:34:13] Speaker 2: fit Jesus is if you give it like dual fulfillments,
[1:34:15] Speaker 2: like you have an original fulfillment and then like a
[1:34:18] Speaker 2: dual fulfillment. And I didn't like that, but I was
[1:34:22] Speaker 2: willing to accept it for a while because I was like, well,
[1:34:24] Speaker 2: surely he fulfilled some prophecies in the original context. But
[1:34:27] Speaker 2: the problem is the same thing we're doing right now,
[1:34:29] Speaker 2: we're going through each individual prophecy. We can go through
[1:34:32] Speaker 2: each individual prophecy about Jesus and they all read the same.
[1:34:36] Speaker 2: Not a single one of them. Jesus actually fulfilled in
[1:34:39] Speaker 2: the original context. You have to invent a new context
[1:34:43] Speaker 2: to make it work.
[1:34:46] Speaker 7: So also, let's take an easy one that he writes
[1:34:50] Speaker 7: on the donkey comes in yeah in zigarega and nine
[1:34:54] Speaker 7: first eight or.
[1:34:56] Speaker 2: Nine, Yes, you got it, So this is fulfilled theoretically
[1:35:00] Speaker 2: in Matthew twenty two. You know, when I first started
[1:35:02] Speaker 2: streaming online, I used to joke and I would say
[1:35:05] Speaker 2: Jesus only fulfilled one prophecy. And I would say that
[1:35:08] Speaker 2: this is the only prophecy he fulfilled, because he did,
[1:35:11] Speaker 2: in fact ride a donkey, And this kind of tongue
[1:35:14] Speaker 2: in cheek. But actually, if you read it, he didn't
[1:35:16] Speaker 2: really fulfill the prophecy, and I'll show you how. So
[1:35:20] Speaker 2: when he gets the donkey, says this took place to
[1:35:23] Speaker 2: fulfill what had been spoken through the prophet. Tell the
[1:35:26] Speaker 2: daughter of Zion, Look, your king is coming to you,
[1:35:28] Speaker 2: humble and mounted on a donkey, on a colt, the
[1:35:31] Speaker 2: full of a donkey. Now, as he said in Zachari nine,
[1:35:35] Speaker 2: if you go to the passage, there are some stipulations
[1:35:39] Speaker 2: other than just riding a donkey, like anyone can ride
[1:35:41] Speaker 2: a donkey. But what's supposed to happen, right, So rejoice greatly,
[1:35:46] Speaker 2: o daughter Zion, shall alloud, O daughter Jerusalem.
[1:35:49] Speaker 1: See your king comes to you, triumphant and victorious.
[1:35:52] Speaker 2: Is he humble and riding on a donkey on a colt,
[1:35:55] Speaker 2: the foal of a donkey. He will cut off the
[1:35:57] Speaker 2: chariot for me, for him and the war horse from Jerusalem,
[1:36:00] Speaker 2: and the battle bow shall be cut off, and he
[1:36:02] Speaker 2: shall command peace to the nations. His dominion shall be
[1:36:05] Speaker 2: from see to sea, from the river to the end
[1:36:07] Speaker 2: of the earth. But like certainly we couldn't apply this
[1:36:10] Speaker 2: to Jesus. He was never a king he was never
[1:36:12] Speaker 2: a victorious king. He never ended the wars or relieved
[1:36:17] Speaker 2: Israel of their enemies.
[1:36:23] Speaker 7: In my belief, he did it so the way. He
[1:36:27] Speaker 7: did not do it physical, but spiritually for the ones
[1:36:32] Speaker 7: that want to listen to him. And I believe that
[1:36:37] Speaker 7: in the future, the day when he returns, that then
[1:36:42] Speaker 7: the full prophecy will come through, that all the wars
[1:36:47] Speaker 7: will see all the well, you know, it's I don't
[1:36:51] Speaker 7: have to list it or not think right.
[1:36:53] Speaker 2: So the problem I have with the prophecy is that
[1:36:56] Speaker 2: it's clearly about a king in like a physical lay
[1:37:00] Speaker 2: in a physical place that says he's going to end
[1:37:04] Speaker 2: all the wars for his people. He's going to cut
[1:37:06] Speaker 2: off the war chariots, the war horses, and the battle bow,
[1:37:11] Speaker 2: and he's going to allow his people to live in peace.
[1:37:13] Speaker 2: Right now, if he hasn't done that, that means he
[1:37:17] Speaker 2: didn't fulfill the prophecy. I mean, it's cool that he
[1:37:19] Speaker 2: wrote a donkey, in fact, he wrote two, according to
[1:37:21] Speaker 2: the Book of Matthew, But I don't think riding a
[1:37:23] Speaker 2: donkey gets you anywhere close to fulfilling this prophecy, you
[1:37:30] Speaker 2: know what I mean?
[1:37:32] Speaker 4: Yeah, I get the point now.
[1:37:36] Speaker 2: I do know that a lot of Christians would put
[1:37:38] Speaker 2: this down as a partially fulfilled prophecy. So Christians do
[1:37:42] Speaker 2: like two different types of prophecies. They'll say either one
[1:37:45] Speaker 2: of two things, it's a dual fulfillment, meaning it's disconnected
[1:37:49] Speaker 2: from the original context, it's got two different meanings. Or
[1:37:53] Speaker 2: they'll say that it's partially fulfilled, meaning Jesus did one
[1:37:56] Speaker 2: part of it, but not the second part of it.
[1:37:58] Speaker 2: But I'll give you a brief exam to kind of
[1:38:00] Speaker 2: illustrate why I personally don't think this is a good hermeneutic.
[1:38:04] Speaker 1: Because if I told you.
[1:38:08] Speaker 2: The Cleveland Browns in twenty twenty five are going to
[1:38:12] Speaker 2: go undefeated and then they're gonna get into the playoffs
[1:38:15] Speaker 2: and they're gonna win the Super Bowl and they're gonna,
[1:38:18] Speaker 2: you know, they're gonna defeat the defending champs from last year. Now,
[1:38:21] Speaker 2: if it happens that they have a good season, they're
[1:38:28] Speaker 2: not undefeated. But let's say that they you know, they're like,
[1:38:31] Speaker 2: I don't know, like fourteen and four or something, and
[1:38:35] Speaker 2: then they make the playoffs but they don't win the
[1:38:36] Speaker 2: Super Bowl. Would we still say that they've fulfilled the prophecy?
[1:38:43] Speaker 7: Well, then you also can say partially yeah, I get
[1:38:47] Speaker 7: the reference, right.
[1:38:49] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:38:49] Speaker 2: But if I said, here's my you know, I'm gonna
[1:38:52] Speaker 2: put money on this bet, my bet. You know, my
[1:38:55] Speaker 2: prediction is that this is going to happen. Do you
[1:38:57] Speaker 2: think the bookie is going to pay me out?
[1:39:00] Speaker 1: No, I will think he will keep the money. Yeah right, Yeah.
[1:39:04] Speaker 2: So I think when we're talking about prophecies, I think
[1:39:07] Speaker 2: it's kind of important that if a prophecy, say, has
[1:39:11] Speaker 2: five points, that they all five actually get fulfilled.
[1:39:13] Speaker 1: And typically when.
[1:39:15] Speaker 2: We look at these partially fulfilled prophecies, the only part
[1:39:18] Speaker 2: that does get fulfilled is like the part that anyone
[1:39:20] Speaker 2: could do, like I can write a donkey, that's easy, right.
[1:39:23] Speaker 2: The party that makes them special is when he like
[1:39:27] Speaker 2: ends all the war.
[1:39:28] Speaker 1: That's the special part, right, m hm. And it's not enough,
[1:39:36] Speaker 1: everyone get right.
[1:39:42] Speaker 5: But what about the thirty pieces of silver?
[1:39:46] Speaker 2: Oh, this is a really good one. So this comes
[1:39:48] Speaker 2: from Matthew twenty seven, and this is one we don't
[1:39:51] Speaker 2: get to talk about enough, but it's one of my
[1:39:53] Speaker 2: favorite passages. So in Matthew twenty seven it says that
[1:39:57] Speaker 2: Jesus was betrayed. It should be towards the end of it.
[1:40:00] Speaker 2: I believe our beginning of it. We grab it. It's
[1:40:05] Speaker 2: going to be in verse nine, yeah, verse nine, Okay.
[1:40:13] Speaker 2: So in Matthew twenty seven, verse nine, after he's betrayed,
[1:40:20] Speaker 2: it says, then was fulfilled what had been spoken through
[1:40:23] Speaker 2: the prophet Jeremiah. And then he quotes Jeremiah, and the
[1:40:27] Speaker 2: quotation says, and they took the thirty pieces of silver,
[1:40:30] Speaker 2: the price of the one on whom a price had
[1:40:34] Speaker 2: been set, on whom some of the people of Israel
[1:40:36] Speaker 2: had set a price, and they gave. They gave them
[1:40:40] Speaker 2: for the potters field, as the Lord commanded me. Okay, Now,
[1:40:45] Speaker 2: if I asked you where in Jeremiah does this come from?
[1:40:48] Speaker 2: Do you think you could find it?
[1:40:52] Speaker 7: Nothing Jeremiah, No, No, yeah, something fake in Sacheria, I
[1:41:02] Speaker 7: think somewhere the best story I talked about.
[1:41:05] Speaker 5: It to us ten or eleven.
[1:41:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's eleven.
[1:41:13] Speaker 2: So if you go to Zacharia eleven, what we find
[1:41:16] Speaker 2: is something completely different. Is not about the Messiah being
[1:41:19] Speaker 2: betrayed at all. God sends Zachariah to do a performative
[1:41:24] Speaker 2: prophecy because he's upset. He's like, these are bad people
[1:41:30] Speaker 2: and I don't even like my shepherds. So he sends
[1:41:33] Speaker 2: Zachary to do a performative prophecy where he pretends to
[1:41:37] Speaker 2: be a shepherd, but then he quits. And when he quits,
[1:41:43] Speaker 2: he's like, you don't have to pay me, you know
[1:41:45] Speaker 2: what I mean. But they pay him anyways, And God says,
[1:41:48] Speaker 2: throw it into the treasury. So I'll show you where
[1:41:50] Speaker 2: that says it's going to be appeared. The blah blah blah.
[1:41:59] Speaker 2: Are Verse twelve says I then said to them, if
[1:42:03] Speaker 2: it seems right to you, give me my wages, but
[1:42:05] Speaker 2: if not, keep them. So they weighed out as my
[1:42:07] Speaker 2: wages thirty shekels of silver. Then the Lord said to me,
[1:42:10] Speaker 2: throw it into the treasury, this lordly price at which
[1:42:13] Speaker 2: I was valued by them. So I took to thirty
[1:42:15] Speaker 2: pieces of silver and threw them into the treasury in
[1:42:18] Speaker 2: the house of the Lord. So the problem we have
[1:42:21] Speaker 2: here is no one was actually betrayed. The shepherd himself
[1:42:25] Speaker 2: Zachariah in this case, received money for a job he
[1:42:28] Speaker 2: didn't perform, and because he didn't perform the job, he
[1:42:31] Speaker 2: gave the money back.
[1:42:41] Speaker 4: You leave my mouth wide open.
[1:42:46] Speaker 2: It's a tough one, I know, right, because you think, yeah, yeah,
[1:42:50] Speaker 2: it's hard to defend. And now here's the thing that
[1:42:53] Speaker 2: the New Testament authors, they weren't crazy. They were doing
[1:42:57] Speaker 2: something a form of mid rash that some Jews.
[1:43:00] Speaker 1: Were already doing.
[1:43:02] Speaker 2: And so, for example, if you read the Dead Scrolls
[1:43:04] Speaker 2: and like read the habit hook pressure or some of
[1:43:07] Speaker 2: the other pressure eem in the Dead Sea scrolls, what
[1:43:10] Speaker 2: they were doing with the prophecies because the prophecies didn't
[1:43:13] Speaker 2: really come true. So what they were doing with the
[1:43:15] Speaker 2: prophecies is they were going into it and they were
[1:43:17] Speaker 2: rewording them saying no, no, well, this was originally about
[1:43:20] Speaker 2: the Greeks, Now it's about this. This was originally about
[1:43:23] Speaker 2: so and so, now it's about such and such. So
[1:43:25] Speaker 2: they were just saying, listen, the prophecies can't fail, so
[1:43:28] Speaker 2: we have to go in and reinterpret them, even if
[1:43:30] Speaker 2: the interpretation has nothing to do with the original context.
[1:43:34] Speaker 2: So the New Testament authors, we're doing the exact same thing.
[1:43:38] Speaker 2: They're saying, Okay, we have this Messiah. We can't give
[1:43:41] Speaker 2: up the idea that this is the Messiah. So what
[1:43:43] Speaker 2: are we going to do. We're going to go back
[1:43:45] Speaker 2: into the Old Testament. We're just going to reinterpret a
[1:43:47] Speaker 2: bunch of passages that sound vaguely familiar to Jesus and
[1:43:51] Speaker 2: say that their prophecies about Jesus. And that's to me,
[1:43:54] Speaker 2: I think this is dishonest. I don't think it's an
[1:43:56] Speaker 2: honest way of doing it. I think it's like a
[1:43:58] Speaker 2: really advanced form of coping with failure.
[1:44:08] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:44:09] Speaker 7: Well, the fun part is I start believing when I
[1:44:15] Speaker 7: was eighteen years old. Yeah, and I never read the scripture.
[1:44:22] Speaker 1: I am now trying to.
[1:44:25] Speaker 3: How do you call.
[1:44:25] Speaker 7: It, learned the book next time, because yeah, it takes
[1:44:32] Speaker 7: a lot of time.
[1:44:34] Speaker 1: And I'll tell you what.
[1:44:35] Speaker 2: So, I was a Christian for a long time, and
[1:44:39] Speaker 2: I deconverted because I did study the scriptures. I didn't
[1:44:42] Speaker 2: just study the parts that I liked. I studied all
[1:44:44] Speaker 2: of it right, And the more I read it, the
[1:44:46] Speaker 2: more I found the plot holes, the more I found
[1:44:49] Speaker 2: that Jesus didn't actually do what the Messiah was supposed
[1:44:51] Speaker 2: to do. And in fact, the New Testament contradicts what
[1:44:54] Speaker 2: the Old Testament says about the Messiah. If you look
[1:44:55] Speaker 2: at clear passages about the Messianic Age says due to
[1:44:59] Speaker 2: our to be thirty, that the law is going to
[1:45:02] Speaker 2: be followed. It says in Ezekiel forty four and beyond that,
[1:45:07] Speaker 2: in the New Jerusalem, the New Heavens, and New Earth,
[1:45:09] Speaker 2: they're going to continue to have offerings and sacrifices. It
[1:45:12] Speaker 2: says in Isaiah sixty five in the New Heaven and
[1:45:16] Speaker 2: New Earth that people are still going to actually die.
[1:45:18] Speaker 2: They're just going to live for a very very long time,
[1:45:21] Speaker 2: but they're still going to die eventually. And it says
[1:45:25] Speaker 2: in Isaiah sixty six in the New Jerusalem, New Heaven,
[1:45:28] Speaker 2: New Earth, that there's still going to be offerings and sacrifices.
[1:45:31] Speaker 1: So like the idea that Jesus is.
[1:45:34] Speaker 2: Going to do away with all death and he's going
[1:45:35] Speaker 2: to get rid of all the offerings and sacrifices, like
[1:45:38] Speaker 2: this is not compatible with the Old Testament.
[1:45:42] Speaker 5: You know.
[1:45:46] Speaker 7: And can I ask a personal question, sure, when did
[1:45:53] Speaker 7: you start to believe?
[1:45:54] Speaker 1: And was that through scripture or through fate? So I
[1:45:59] Speaker 1: started to believe as a child.
[1:46:00] Speaker 2: I grew up around other believing people, So I guess
[1:46:04] Speaker 2: I just assumed it was true because everybody in my
[1:46:06] Speaker 2: life kind of did too. But I didn't grow up
[1:46:09] Speaker 2: in a religious family. Like they didn't drag us to church,
[1:46:11] Speaker 2: they didn't make us go to church. It was like
[1:46:13] Speaker 2: a personal decision within our family. My parents believed in
[1:46:17] Speaker 2: teaching the kids to make their own decisions. I became
[1:46:20] Speaker 2: an evangelical when I was about fifteen turning sixteen.
[1:46:26] Speaker 1: And that's I was.
[1:46:27] Speaker 2: If you asked me prior to that, if I believe it,
[1:46:30] Speaker 2: I would have told you, yes, who doesn't Everyone believes this?
[1:46:34] Speaker 1: Right?
[1:46:35] Speaker 2: But that being said, that was that was like a
[1:46:37] Speaker 2: turning point for me when it became real, when I
[1:46:39] Speaker 2: when I sort of had like my religious awaking, when
[1:46:42] Speaker 2: I was like, oh, well, if this thing's real, I
[1:46:45] Speaker 2: have to dedicate my entire life to this.
[1:46:46] Speaker 1: This isn't something to take lightly.
[1:46:49] Speaker 2: And you know that some evangelical churches would say, well,
[1:46:54] Speaker 2: that was like my born again experience, right, and I did.
[1:46:57] Speaker 2: I took it very seriously. I got involved in ministry.
[1:47:02] Speaker 2: I eventually went to Bible College and seminary. The problem is,
[1:47:05] Speaker 2: the more I studied, the more it turned out that
[1:47:07] Speaker 2: it just couldn't be true. And once you get to
[1:47:10] Speaker 2: the point where like it just can't be true, then
[1:47:13] Speaker 2: it's pretty easy to go back and reinterpret some of
[1:47:18] Speaker 2: your past experiences where you thought you were experiencing God.
[1:47:22] Speaker 2: It's pretty easy to reinterpret those and be like, oh,
[1:47:24] Speaker 2: that was just you know, my imagination doing what imaginations do.
[1:47:31] Speaker 3: Okay, that's interesting, But I.
[1:47:35] Speaker 2: Appreciate you come up and chat with me though. I
[1:47:37] Speaker 2: had a good time, Terrence. As you study through the
[1:47:39] Speaker 2: Bible and you read more stuff, come back and talk
[1:47:41] Speaker 2: with me and let me know how you're doing.
[1:47:43] Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, Scoots, thank you for having me.
[1:47:46] Speaker 1: Here's buddy, bye w Terrence. He took out like a champ.
[1:47:55] Speaker 1: All right.
[1:47:55] Speaker 2: So the TikTok stream is lagging because my verticals stream
[1:48:00] Speaker 2: is lagging because the resolution is too high.
[1:48:02] Speaker 1: So I think this is what I'm gonna do.
[1:48:03] Speaker 2: I'm gonna read the super chats that have been sent
[1:48:06] Speaker 2: on the vertical stream, and then I'm going to restart
[1:48:08] Speaker 2: it with a lower resolution, and then it should it
[1:48:12] Speaker 2: should automatically cause the TikTok stream to stop lagging. So
[1:48:15] Speaker 2: I apologize for that, and then we'll get our next
[1:48:17] Speaker 2: guest in here. Night Man says just got off work
[1:48:21] Speaker 2: and saw the cookout had started. Hell yeah, well, hell
[1:48:24] Speaker 2: yeah to you, night Man. I appreciate coming by and watching,
[1:48:27] Speaker 2: and our friend Small Johnson's with us as Sorry justin
[1:48:29] Speaker 2: now I feel like a pos I thought you said
[1:48:32] Speaker 2: you're all hanging out for his birthday. No, no, small
[1:48:34] Speaker 2: Johnson's okay, It's perfectly okay. No, no, Unfortunately for the
[1:48:39] Speaker 2: for the birthday weekend, in the next couple days, he's
[1:48:42] Speaker 2: going to be with mom. But I'll go grab my
[1:48:45] Speaker 2: son this coming week, and then we're actually gonna be
[1:48:47] Speaker 2: on vacation. Not this week, but in like ten days
[1:48:52] Speaker 2: from now, I think are seven days from now, We're
[1:48:55] Speaker 2: going to take a week vacation.
[1:48:56] Speaker 1: I won't be streaming at all.
[1:48:57] Speaker 2: But Carlos, thank you for sending out twenty Deconstruction Zone memberships.
[1:49:03] Speaker 1: I super appreciate that, buddy. That is huge. That's huge, Carlos.
[1:49:07] Speaker 2: Also, on August the sixth, mark your calendar's August sixth,
[1:49:12] Speaker 2: I'm going to be hosting an episode on the Line
[1:49:15] Speaker 2: with Matt Della Honey. So I'm going to be teaming
[1:49:18] Speaker 2: up finally with the Goat on the Line, and Godwin says,
[1:49:22] Speaker 2: are Elijah and Elishah the same? No, when when Judah
[1:49:26] Speaker 2: in Israel merged, they weren't the same. But I listen,
[1:49:29] Speaker 2: I can. I don't think so, but I can a
[1:49:32] Speaker 2: million percent, a million percent see why you would come
[1:49:36] Speaker 2: to that conclusion. And all I can tell you about
[1:49:39] Speaker 2: that particular conclusion is I can't prove you wrong.
[1:49:42] Speaker 1: I can only tell you that.
[1:49:43] Speaker 2: I don't think they intended them to be the same person.
[1:49:45] Speaker 2: That being said, I could be persuaded on it. I
[1:49:49] Speaker 2: literally could. I haven't heard a super great argument for it,
[1:49:53] Speaker 2: but I am all ears for a good argument on
[1:49:56] Speaker 2: Elijah and Elisha originally being the same person. Saint Barnabas says,
[1:50:00] Speaker 2: so many Christians don't read the Old Testament. That's like
[1:50:02] Speaker 2: watching The Lord of the Rings and skipping the first
[1:50:04] Speaker 2: half of the trilogy. Isn't an amazing it's amazing. They
[1:50:08] Speaker 2: refuse to read this thing and writing. Jake says, did
[1:50:11] Speaker 2: the New Testament authors paint Jesus as the Angel of
[1:50:14] Speaker 2: the Lord from the Old Testament since they said the
[1:50:15] Speaker 2: Angel of the Lord had God face? So there's divide
[1:50:19] Speaker 2: there's divided opinions on this, Jake. So some authors of
[1:50:25] Speaker 2: the New Testament would have equated him to being the
[1:50:27] Speaker 2: Angel of the Lord. I don't think all would. It's
[1:50:30] Speaker 2: clear that, like in the Book of Hebrews, they think
[1:50:33] Speaker 2: that he's a manifestation of Melchizedec.
[1:50:36] Speaker 1: That's a whole nother thing.
[1:50:37] Speaker 2: Go to the Dead Sea scrolls and go to the
[1:50:40] Speaker 2: Book of Enoch and read about the lore of Melchizedec
[1:50:43] Speaker 2: and compare it to what you find in the Book
[1:50:45] Speaker 2: of Hebrews. They clearly think that he's a manifestation of
[1:50:48] Speaker 2: melchisidec And Victor says, triangulation equals trinity.
[1:50:52] Speaker 1: I see what you did there. Someone finally gets me.
[1:50:56] Speaker 2: Sometimes in the middle, as I'm saying these things, I
[1:50:59] Speaker 2: want if anyone's going to catch them. And I'm so
[1:51:01] Speaker 2: glad that you do, says I pray you encounter Jesus
[1:51:04] Speaker 2: personally so all your amazing Bible knowledge is used for
[1:51:07] Speaker 2: God's glory. Well, sorry, Victor, I won't be because I
[1:51:09] Speaker 2: already know he's a liar and a fraud. But I
[1:51:11] Speaker 2: appreciate you catching my trinity pun And Diobolo says, is
[1:51:16] Speaker 2: it hypercritical that a vegetarian finds the smell of roasted Christians?
[1:51:21] Speaker 1: Pleasing? It's not.
[1:51:22] Speaker 2: It's not keep holding the refeet of the fire mate
[1:51:25] Speaker 2: love from Australia. Well, thank you, I appreciate that, Avocado,
[1:51:28] Speaker 2: And Luke says, are there any instances where Alma translates
[1:51:32] Speaker 2: to virgin in the same way the com can be
[1:51:34] Speaker 2: translated to change mind, regret, or repent. Yes, we do
[1:51:37] Speaker 2: have instances in the ancient world, in fact, where Alma
[1:51:42] Speaker 2: could refer to a virgin. The problem with that is
[1:51:46] Speaker 2: it's a generic word. It just means young women, right,
[1:51:48] Speaker 2: So certainly there are cases where you talk about a
[1:51:51] Speaker 2: young woman over there and she's a virgin.
[1:51:54] Speaker 1: It's easy, right, But virginity is not.
[1:51:56] Speaker 2: Implied by the word Alma and brothel, though Bothel Guy
[1:52:01] Speaker 2: says not about religion. Found a place with diet pepper
[1:52:05] Speaker 2: strawberry shortcake and it changed my life. Thanks for the plug.
[1:52:09] Speaker 2: There's a chance I don't get diabetes now. I love
[1:52:13] Speaker 2: the doctor pepper zero strawberry. It's amazing. It might be
[1:52:18] Speaker 2: my favorite. The problem is it's so expensive. Always I
[1:52:21] Speaker 2: wait for it to go on sale, and I buy
[1:52:23] Speaker 2: a bunch of it, and then I run out, and
[1:52:24] Speaker 2: then I have to wait for it to go on
[1:52:25] Speaker 2: sale again. Forum says the apostles took his last supper
[1:52:30] Speaker 2: commands literally and cannibalized his corpse. The empty tomb was
[1:52:33] Speaker 2: a metaphor for their stomachs, and the resurrection was when
[1:52:36] Speaker 2: bits of him passed through their stool that's actually really good.
[1:52:39] Speaker 2: I like the way you think about that, and you're right.
[1:52:41] Speaker 2: The Catholic Church interpreted John chapter six and also what
[1:52:44] Speaker 2: he says at the Last Supper is literal. He did
[1:52:47] Speaker 2: not interpret that as being some sort of a metaphor.
[1:52:54] Speaker 2: And Texas, my friend, thank you for the ten that
[1:52:55] Speaker 2: I was superchested, says, Look, I'm going to fulfill these
[1:52:57] Speaker 2: prophecies eventually, but I'm very busy helping millionaires win their
[1:53:01] Speaker 2: sports ball games. Give me a break. A day is
[1:53:04] Speaker 2: like a thousand years for me. I know, it's hard
[1:53:06] Speaker 2: when you're all knowing, all powerful, and timeless to do
[1:53:09] Speaker 2: things that require those qualities good to see A Texas
[1:53:13] Speaker 2: and Superhuman theory says if the afterlife is flipped or
[1:53:17] Speaker 2: was flipped, that to be a Christian means to accept
[1:53:20] Speaker 2: living in hell as an eternal sacrifice to God, and
[1:53:24] Speaker 2: sinners chose to live in infinite in infinite pleasure. Who
[1:53:29] Speaker 2: would still be a Christian? It's actually a good question.
[1:53:33] Speaker 2: Would you still be a Christian without the benefit or
[1:53:36] Speaker 2: without the perceived benefit of being a Christian? Like if
[1:53:40] Speaker 2: God didn't promise you all kinds of good things, would
[1:53:43] Speaker 2: you still be a Christian?
[1:53:45] Speaker 1: Probably not, probably not.
[1:53:46] Speaker 2: JMR, thank you so much for the fifty dollars super chet.
[1:53:49] Speaker 2: That's huge, very generous, SOS. Hear me out. I think
[1:53:52] Speaker 2: g Man actually took that w spiritually. And when medtech
[1:53:58] Speaker 2: advances a lot, we can case study this trinity of
[1:54:01] Speaker 2: bizarre over confidence, social self destruction. And there was one
[1:54:06] Speaker 2: more shoot?
[1:54:06] Speaker 1: Where was it? Oh?
[1:54:07] Speaker 2: Pro slavery posff It's crazy. I'll never get over g
[1:54:12] Speaker 2: Man being pro slavery. It hurts me to my core
[1:54:15] Speaker 2: to watch. Thank you for the zuper jet and fierceus interaction,
[1:54:17] Speaker 2: says PSA from Anube for anyone buying the NRSV spring
[1:54:21] Speaker 2: for a version with the large print. I'm going blind
[1:54:24] Speaker 2: over here. Gonna need Jesus to rub spit and mud
[1:54:26] Speaker 2: in my eyes. Love you justin well, thank you for
[1:54:29] Speaker 2: his interaction and yes the text is small. You got
[1:54:32] Speaker 2: you gotta pick your size carefully, and Flash says I'm
[1:54:36] Speaker 2: sure g Man is still chatting about your conversation with
[1:54:39] Speaker 2: his five followers.
[1:54:40] Speaker 1: What a joke. I listen. There's a reason why no one.
[1:54:42] Speaker 2: Watches g Man's channel because he can't. He can't handle
[1:54:45] Speaker 2: himself and cheap. Next is Eve's son, Mom can we
[1:54:48] Speaker 2: smash or not. Hey, that's a fair question. That's a fair,
[1:54:52] Speaker 2: fair question. Actually, Concept has been watching Christian YouTuber's bash
[1:54:56] Speaker 2: competing denominations lately. Their self righteous smugness reminds me why
[1:54:59] Speaker 2: I only go to church for funerals. I'm with you, Khan,
[1:55:02] Speaker 2: and there's another reason why I try to minimize atheists
[1:55:07] Speaker 2: in fighting, guys, we're all on the same team. Stop
[1:55:10] Speaker 2: fighting each other. There are things we don't always agree on.
[1:55:12] Speaker 2: It's okay, it's okay. And Doug says, happy cook and Justin,
[1:55:15] Speaker 2: I've heard you mentioned the Rubbable a few times, and
[1:55:18] Speaker 2: I'm wondering who he was. What was The Rubbable was
[1:55:21] Speaker 2: one of the leaders of the Israelites when they came
[1:55:23] Speaker 2: back from Babylon. He was the first new governor of
[1:55:27] Speaker 2: the Israelites when they went to the homeland and started reassembling.
[1:55:33] Speaker 2: Matthew says Jesus was a mental health fraud. I agree
[1:55:37] Speaker 2: his guidance for the anxious person, don't be anxious, is
[1:55:40] Speaker 2: genius effing fraud.
[1:55:41] Speaker 1: Yes.
[1:55:42] Speaker 2: Could you imagine being a mental health professional being God
[1:55:44] Speaker 2: knowing all things and saying, well.
[1:55:46] Speaker 1: Don't worry guys.
[1:55:48] Speaker 2: Oh, now that you said, don't worry. Sure, sure, I
[1:55:52] Speaker 2: never thought about that. All right, guys, I'm here's what
[1:55:56] Speaker 2: I'm gonna do. I'm gonna pause real quick the vert
[1:56:00] Speaker 2: live stream only just for a moment. I'm gonna pause
[1:56:03] Speaker 2: the vertical live stream only. I'm gonna restart the vertical
[1:56:06] Speaker 2: live stream because it's lagging like crazy and it's causing
[1:56:10] Speaker 2: our TikTok stream the leg like crazy. So horizontal stream
[1:56:13] Speaker 2: is not gonna pause at all. I'll be right back
[1:56:15] Speaker 2: with the vertical stream. Actually, it turns out I can't
[1:56:36] Speaker 2: restart the vertical stream while the horizontal stream is live, So,
[1:56:41] Speaker 2: son of a bitch, I'll just I'll pause, pause both streams,
[1:56:47] Speaker 2: and restart the vertical stream

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