# 2025-07-25 LIVE DEBATE \[God is Imaginary\]

An episode of [Deconstruction Zone](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1837730286), 28 Sep 2025, 4 h 56 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/67798391/2025_07_25_live_debate_god_is_imaginary.mp3

Live debating every theist on the planet. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Get Member Perks: https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone/join https://patreon.com/Deconstruction_Zone --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUPPORT THE STREAM: https://venmo.com/u/JHCOFFEEFUND https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/JHCOFFEEFUND https://cash.app/$JHCOFFEEFUND --------------------------------------------------------------------- SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS: https://www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction.zone https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone https://www.youtube.com/@DZDebates https://www.twitch.tv/deconstructionzone_ https://www.instagram.com/deconstruction_zone/ https://clapperapp.com/Justin_DZ https://x.com/Justin_DZ_ https://discord.com/invite/WmeAmrhkxZ https://linktr.ee/justin_____ Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/deconstruction-zone--6451535/support.

## Transcript

[2:11] Speaker 1: Sorry, my microphone is muted. I always forget to unmute
[2:13] Speaker 1: my microphone. I don't know why that is the case.
[2:16] Speaker 1: Sorry about that. Give me one second, though, to see
[2:19] Speaker 1: what's going on with my vertical live stream, which isn't
[2:23] Speaker 1: currently running for some reason. Super annoying van settings output
[2:35] Speaker 1: setting stream key. Oh because it was a strong I
[2:40] Speaker 1: didn't use the same stream key for some reason. That's
[2:42] Speaker 1: super annoying. Now that should be good. I've got to
[2:46] Speaker 1: eliminate on my vertical stream on my YouTube account. I
[2:49] Speaker 1: need to eliminate literally all of the stream keys except
[2:52] Speaker 1: for one stream key so that it never gets confused
[2:55] Speaker 1: about which stream key to use. Sorry about that, friends.
[2:59] Speaker 1: All right, now we've got all the streams open. We
[3:01] Speaker 1: should be good to go. We've got the horizontal stream open,
[3:05] Speaker 1: We've got the vertical stream open, We've got the TikTok
[3:10] Speaker 1: stream open, so everything should be ready to rock and roll.
[3:14] Speaker 1: The guest boxes are all open. Maybe after this weekend
[3:19] Speaker 1: I'll switch back to stream Labs. Maybe whatever hiccup they're
[3:23] Speaker 1: having on their servers is will be over with by then.
[3:26] Speaker 1: But for today, I'm gonna use OBS just to just
[3:31] Speaker 1: to you know, stay safe, you know, don't want to
[3:34] Speaker 1: have another situation where everything is all leggy and leggy
[3:39] Speaker 1: and not working. You should have audio now. By the
[3:42] Speaker 1: way I'm looking through the comments, I know that the
[3:44] Speaker 1: audio wasn't working there for a second. But everything should
[3:47] Speaker 1: be ready to go. Everything should be ready rock and
[3:48] Speaker 1: roll now. So welcome in everyone. It's great to see y'all.
[3:52] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here. I see PK.
[3:55] Speaker 1: Heaven Ethen is with us, so big w PK. Heathen,
[4:01] Speaker 1: and we've got Meek with us as well. Stephan is
[4:05] Speaker 1: with us. We've got a lot of regular faces in here,
[4:09] Speaker 1: so thank you so much for being here. Friends. I
[4:11] Speaker 1: really appreciate that. We've already got a guest too. We'll
[4:18] Speaker 1: bring in our guest here just a second. Larry Beck,
[4:21] Speaker 1: thank you so much for sending out five DZ debates
[4:24] Speaker 1: gifted memberships. That's super generous, my friend. I really appreciate
[4:27] Speaker 1: that and great to see you. Thank you for being here.
[4:29] Speaker 1: And also we got a new member of the Crack
[4:32] Speaker 1: and Crew, Elie, which is mindful Barbarian, great name. Welcome
[4:35] Speaker 1: to the Crack and Crew friend, and also Larry Beck,
[4:38] Speaker 1: our good friend set in a super chat for six
[4:41] Speaker 1: one six Hell nero, he said, summertime and the grilling.
[4:45] Speaker 1: The grilling is easy, I think is what you meant. Weezy.
[4:51] Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with easy on this one. But listen,
[4:54] Speaker 1: the grilling is about the commence. It's about to commence. Friends.
[4:57] Speaker 1: I've just got a couple of super chats. We'll get
[4:59] Speaker 1: our first guest in here and Apostate Chess, thank you
[5:02] Speaker 1: so much for the vite. Our supertest says, would you
[5:03] Speaker 1: give a quick rundown of the context in Zacharian nine
[5:07] Speaker 1: that the Messiah will conquer the slingers of Greece and
[5:12] Speaker 1: drink their blood? What? Uh? Are you sure you're sure
[5:18] Speaker 1: you got the right book Zacharyan nine?
[5:22] Speaker 2: Uh?
[5:23] Speaker 1: First of all, I'm not aware that the Messiah shows
[5:26] Speaker 1: up in Zachariaan nine. By the way, there there seems
[5:30] Speaker 1: to be some sort of a ruler, you know, that
[5:33] Speaker 1: shows up like a triumphant king. Oh. I see what
[5:39] Speaker 1: you're saying, uh about about Messiah?
[5:42] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[5:42] Speaker 1: Okay, So so here's my take on Zachary and I
[5:44] Speaker 1: let me catch up. I don't read Zachary zacharia and
[5:48] Speaker 1: nine as being about the de facto Messiah. I think
[5:52] Speaker 1: it's about a normal king. I agree though, that if
[5:55] Speaker 1: you're gonna look at Messianic passages, Zachary and nine typically
[6:00] Speaker 1: is included. The Jews themselves include it as a Messianic passage.
[6:05] Speaker 1: You don't have to read it that way. In fact,
[6:07] Speaker 1: if you read it with the historical context, you can
[6:09] Speaker 1: read it without the Messianic overtones. That being said, let
[6:14] Speaker 1: me explain briefly why it's not about Jesus, because it
[6:18] Speaker 1: doesn't take much work to go into Zacharia and nine
[6:20] Speaker 1: and demonstrate that it's not about Jesus. It says, rejoiced greatly,
[6:24] Speaker 1: O daughter Zion shall allowd O daughter Jerusalem. This is
[6:27] Speaker 1: quoted in Matthew twenty one and elsewhere. See your king
[6:30] Speaker 1: comes to you, trump and victorious? Is he humble? And
[6:32] Speaker 1: writing on a donkey on a cult the Fall of
[6:34] Speaker 1: a Donkey. Now it doesn't say he's gonna live forever,
[6:37] Speaker 1: It doesn't say he's going to be the de facto
[6:39] Speaker 1: Michiach just says there's a king coming. He's gonna be
[6:42] Speaker 1: triumphant in victorious, and he's gonna put down in Israel's enemies.
[6:46] Speaker 1: Now you could make this messianic depending on what you
[6:48] Speaker 1: do with verse eleven. But verse ten is clear. Verse
[6:52] Speaker 1: ten says he will cut off the chart from Mephrium,
[6:56] Speaker 1: and the war horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow
[6:58] Speaker 1: shall be cut off, and he shall command piece of
[6:59] Speaker 1: the nations, and the dominion shall be from c to sea,
[7:02] Speaker 1: from the river to the end of the earth. Okay,
[7:05] Speaker 1: So if you believe that, like the final King is
[7:11] Speaker 1: just the Michiak, then yes, you would read into the
[7:16] Speaker 1: rest of the passage. Now, the problem with here's where
[7:19] Speaker 1: things fall apart. So if you only read verse nine
[7:22] Speaker 1: and ten, you're like, yeah, that's messianic, obviously. The problem
[7:28] Speaker 1: is when you get further down into the passage you
[7:31] Speaker 1: get a whole bunch of context that really only works
[7:34] Speaker 1: if you're in the seventh or eighth century. Right. It
[7:38] Speaker 1: even says, shit, let me grab verse eleven as for
[7:45] Speaker 1: you also, because the blood of my covenant with you,
[7:47] Speaker 1: I will set your prisoners free in the waterless pit,
[7:50] Speaker 1: return to your strongholder, prisoners of hope. But declare will
[7:52] Speaker 1: restore to you double for I have bent Judah as
[7:55] Speaker 1: my bow. I've made Ephrium it's arrow. So now we're
[7:58] Speaker 1: this is all exhilic context. He's saying, listen, you guys
[8:02] Speaker 1: are prisoners. You you know I fucked you up. You
[8:05] Speaker 1: know what I mean? You You got your ass kicked.
[8:09] Speaker 1: But don't worry. The time of restoration is near your
[8:13] Speaker 1: your time of pain is over. That being said, it did,
[8:17] Speaker 1: it didn't come true. Now, Zachariah, as far as most
[8:20] Speaker 1: people are concerned, like most scholars concern, was written in pieces.
[8:23] Speaker 1: Some of this is written later than others. That's why
[8:26] Speaker 1: we had the mention of Greece in here. But the
[8:29] Speaker 1: reality is Zachariaan nine just never came true because Jesus
[8:34] Speaker 1: was never a king. He was never triumphant and victorious.
[8:38] Speaker 1: The fact that he wrote a donkey is meaningless. I
[8:40] Speaker 1: wrote a donkey doesn't mean anything. That he cut off
[8:43] Speaker 1: all the chariots from me from in the warhors are
[8:45] Speaker 1: from Jerusalem and take care of the battle bows. Nah,
[8:48] Speaker 1: they didn't do none of that stuff. So uh, the dude,
[8:52] Speaker 1: if all you can do is ride a donkey, you're
[8:55] Speaker 1: you're not the Messiah. All right, good question though, And Marcus,
[8:59] Speaker 1: my friend, thank you for this point our super chat.
[9:01] Speaker 1: That's huge, friend, he says, I wanted to ask if
[9:03] Speaker 1: Adam and Eve are in are in biblically the first
[9:06] Speaker 1: humans yes. To short answer, it seems to be that
[9:12] Speaker 1: Adam and Eve are the first humans. He says in
[9:14] Speaker 1: Genesis one twenty six, God says, let there be humans,
[9:17] Speaker 1: and in Genesis four there are seemingly people who came
[9:20] Speaker 1: from seemingly nowhere, like Adah and Zillah. Yeah, and also
[9:24] Speaker 1: you would say the spouse of of Cain. So there's
[9:31] Speaker 1: certainly questions as to like, why was there the land
[9:34] Speaker 1: of Nod? Who is populating the land of Nod if?
[9:37] Speaker 1: But I think the way most Christians do this is,
[9:41] Speaker 1: you know they would the apologetic is basically, well, yeah,
[9:43] Speaker 1: but they had lots of children. Adam and Eve were proliferous.
[9:48] Speaker 1: I can't say that we'd proliferous, that's the right word.
[9:51] Speaker 1: And because they had so many children, they were able
[9:54] Speaker 1: to populate. That goes along with the beef fruitful and
[9:57] Speaker 1: multiply and fill the earth. Right. That typically how they
[10:00] Speaker 1: solve it. The reality is it's just an anachronistic text.
[10:04] Speaker 1: That's it. That's all. We already got criers in the
[10:09] Speaker 1: chat justin you're arguing against literalist translations and ignoring the
[10:13] Speaker 1: scholarship that debunks these literal, historical and non my mythopoetic
[10:20] Speaker 1: and theological that misses the Austras intent. You're completely wrong, Nathan,
[10:24] Speaker 1: You're entirely wrong. All of my opinions are based on scholarship.
[10:28] Speaker 1: I came to these opinions by reading the scholars and
[10:31] Speaker 1: by studying the text. You're doing what's called coping prolific.
[10:36] Speaker 1: That's the right word. Thank you guys. Fuck, it's gonna
[10:40] Speaker 1: be a crazy stream. I can't even use words. Yeah,
[10:43] Speaker 1: you're the one who doesn't know the scholarship. If you
[10:45] Speaker 1: think that Genesis is all a metaphor, you're in a
[10:48] Speaker 1: lot of hurt. Mindful Barbarian says I love the horizontal
[10:51] Speaker 1: stream and had to join it too. You're the best chef. Well,
[10:53] Speaker 1: thank you so much. I appreciate that, big w and
[10:58] Speaker 1: gr Dogma, thank you for the fifteen dollars supertest, says
[11:01] Speaker 1: hell Nero, looking forward to enjoying the pleasing aroma of
[11:04] Speaker 1: this silly theist argument barbecue. Thanks for all you do. Well,
[11:07] Speaker 1: thank you so much for supporting I really appreciate Jardogma,
[11:11] Speaker 1: and I've just got a couple more super chats. I
[11:12] Speaker 1: don't want to get behind. Before we started our first
[11:14] Speaker 1: conversation and then we'll bring our first guest in here.
[11:17] Speaker 1: Night Man come and says, happy Fridday, justin after you.
[11:19] Speaker 1: Barbecue always filled with pleasing aromas. It's gonna be a
[11:23] Speaker 1: great one. I'm excited for it. Thanks for being here,
[11:25] Speaker 1: night Man, Thanks for being here. And Brianna says, may
[11:28] Speaker 1: Doug grant you the huge grace of cooking today. I'll
[11:33] Speaker 1: tell I'll take that joke with huge grace, my friend.
[11:37] Speaker 1: And Pork says, what do you call the Church of
[11:39] Speaker 1: Doug A basilica? That's a good one. That is a
[11:43] Speaker 1: good one. May the courts be with you, friend, Absolutely
[11:46] Speaker 1: and unashamed says Roses A Red Christians are blue. You
[11:49] Speaker 1: always the worst. Here is my free I was amazing, unashamed.
[11:59] Speaker 1: That was amazing, heavy round, a heavy round of applause.
[12:05] Speaker 1: That was That was a fantastic use of words. And
[12:07] Speaker 1: our friend Carlos sending twenty deconstruction Zone gifted memberships. Huge win, Carlos.
[12:14] Speaker 1: I super appreciate that, really big win there. I really
[12:17] Speaker 1: appreciate everyone who's a member, whether it's gifted or non gifted.
[12:22] Speaker 1: The memberships really are the backbone of the community and
[12:25] Speaker 1: the channel. But All says excellent start to the workday.
[12:28] Speaker 1: Keep cooking. We are about to get our first meal
[12:31] Speaker 1: on the barbie. Stephen says, May a list of books
[12:34] Speaker 1: of atheist books yesterday. Oh good, Stephen, share it with
[12:37] Speaker 1: me in the discord. I'd love to see what you
[12:38] Speaker 1: came up with. I don't really have a good atheist
[12:41] Speaker 1: book list. I'd love to see what's on yours and
[12:44] Speaker 1: your mom's favorite. Eighty seven says, I presuppose my pre
[12:47] Speaker 1: supposition is a metaphysical necessity for me being a lame
[12:51] Speaker 1: and pre requisite for me not getting laid sounds about right.
[12:57] Speaker 1: I concur with that. In fact, I won't even make
[13:00] Speaker 1: you put that into a valid so logistic form. I'll
[13:04] Speaker 1: just accept it on face value. All right, let me
[13:06] Speaker 1: get our first guests in here, and we're gonna bring
[13:10] Speaker 1: in Justin's Abby Whu a session obsession, which should be
[13:15] Speaker 1: a whole lot of fun. Before we get started, let's
[13:17] Speaker 1: make sure the audio is working. Can everyone hear the
[13:19] Speaker 1: guy I'm here? Can you hear me? Well? I can
[13:25] Speaker 1: hear you, but I might have just heard double tried again.
[13:29] Speaker 1: Can you hear me, I'm here, I can hear you.
[13:31] Speaker 1: The audio sounds funky. It sounds like you're echoing. Let
[13:35] Speaker 1: me try to switch microphones.
[13:39] Speaker 2: Let's see.
[13:45] Speaker 1: It's hard to say if it's an echo or if
[13:49] Speaker 1: it's just like a weird robotic sound.
[13:53] Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
[14:01] Speaker 1: Is that any better? It's about the same.
[14:07] Speaker 3: Shoot?
[14:11] Speaker 4: How's that? Oh wait?
[14:14] Speaker 1: I know why? I think it making it worse, not better.
[14:18] Speaker 3: Not better. It's not better?
[14:20] Speaker 1: Okayh Yeah, they're saying you actually just made it worse.
[14:36] Speaker 1: How many microphones you got over there? How's this better?
[14:57] Speaker 1: Whatever you just did, it seems to be better. I
[15:06] Speaker 1: don't know what kind of equipment you're working with. And
[15:08] Speaker 1: he just dropped, what the fuck? Thank God? Just visit us.
[15:13] Speaker 1: He finally got the audio working, and he dropped, Oh boy, well,
[15:24] Speaker 1: what are you gonna do? Oh? We tried, We really
[15:30] Speaker 1: did try. Okay, well I guess I guess We'll move
[15:35] Speaker 1: on to the next guest. Come on back, come on back.
[15:42] Speaker 1: We're gonna get stood on business. How you do instead?
[15:48] Speaker 1: I'm doing all right, man? How about you today? Doing
[15:50] Speaker 1: good things? For asking stood? Are you least eighteen and
[15:54] Speaker 1: are you a believer?
[15:56] Speaker 4: Oh?
[15:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm over eighteen, and I do believe in a god? Cool?
[16:00] Speaker 1: And which god do you believe? In.
[16:04] Speaker 4: I don't.
[16:05] Speaker 5: I don't know, man, I just believe in that. I
[16:07] Speaker 5: just believe in a higher power beyond our comprehension and understanding.
[16:10] Speaker 5: I don't necessarily put a label on on or what
[16:13] Speaker 5: that higher power is.
[16:15] Speaker 1: Does it have characteristics? Understand? I'm sorry? Does it have
[16:19] Speaker 1: characteristics like properties? Characteristics and properties? Uh? Uh?
[16:28] Speaker 5: That's a tough question, man, because again, like the characteristics
[16:31] Speaker 5: and properties of a god?
[16:32] Speaker 1: Can that you know? You can? You know?
[16:34] Speaker 5: It can go either ways. You can say magnificent and
[16:37] Speaker 5: powerful like hear me stuff like that.
[16:39] Speaker 1: Well, I guess let me ask you a more an
[16:44] Speaker 1: easier question, like what what can you tell me about
[16:47] Speaker 1: the God? Because like I'm trying to figure out what
[16:49] Speaker 1: kind of a god's concept you're thinking of, and it's
[16:52] Speaker 1: hard for me to understand, Like when you say you
[16:54] Speaker 1: believe in a God, I don't fully know what you
[16:57] Speaker 1: mean when you say god, because it sounds like you
[16:59] Speaker 1: have a non standard idea of God. Could you help
[17:01] Speaker 1: me out and explain what type of a God you
[17:04] Speaker 1: believe in? Okay, So I believe in.
[17:07] Speaker 5: So what I believe in is just like so first
[17:09] Speaker 5: you know the word how the word God is just
[17:11] Speaker 5: a work created by man, right, words, words are created
[17:13] Speaker 5: by humans.
[17:14] Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you.
[17:17] Speaker 5: So before before the creation of the word God are
[17:19] Speaker 5: just words in general that I'm pretty sure there were
[17:21] Speaker 5: people before those times that still believed in a higher power. Right, Yeah,
[17:25] Speaker 5: that's kind of how I that's how that's my that's
[17:27] Speaker 5: how I take on life. Is I don't. I don't
[17:30] Speaker 5: view life. It's just like I don't like again, I
[17:31] Speaker 5: was I used to be like a Christian. I was
[17:34] Speaker 5: actually brought up in both a Christian and Islamic background.
[17:37] Speaker 5: But it just as I aged older into a man,
[17:39] Speaker 5: I just started to just notice some inconsistencies and I
[17:42] Speaker 5: did my own research, growth and experience. It has led
[17:46] Speaker 5: me to becoming to believe in it in a higher power,
[17:48] Speaker 5: but in a non religious way.
[17:50] Speaker 1: Yes, but higher power doesn't make it. Give me a definition,
[17:54] Speaker 1: Like if you're saying God is a higher power just
[17:56] Speaker 1: meaningless to me? What what about it is the higher
[17:59] Speaker 1: power sent? Did it create the universe? Is it eternal?
[18:02] Speaker 1: Did it evolve? Like? What is it all knowing, all powerful? Like?
[18:07] Speaker 1: What is it? Yeah? Good question, good question.
[18:09] Speaker 5: So in my in in my in my opinion, the
[18:13] Speaker 5: higher priers to me is something that's always been. That's
[18:16] Speaker 5: that's that's just always existed. So I believe that our existence,
[18:19] Speaker 5: for example, is a test of free will. Right, So
[18:22] Speaker 5: do you know, like you know those experiments for example,
[18:25] Speaker 5: like you know, like when the parents will set out
[18:27] Speaker 5: a bowl of cookies or something and they'll tell the child, hey,
[18:30] Speaker 5: I'll be back, and if if you don't eat any
[18:32] Speaker 5: cookies when I'll come back, you can have as many
[18:34] Speaker 5: as you like. Right, That's kind of how I'll see
[18:36] Speaker 5: our existence. Our existence is we were created as a
[18:39] Speaker 5: test of free will and as a test to see
[18:42] Speaker 5: what would you guys do if if you guys were
[18:44] Speaker 5: under the oppression that you can do whatever you want
[18:46] Speaker 5: to do and there's no consequences or repercussions. And our
[18:49] Speaker 5: history is a result of that of our free will.
[18:52] Speaker 1: Okay, so you believe how do you believe in God
[18:55] Speaker 1: that is going to set up like a form of
[18:58] Speaker 1: rewards and punishments in the after life based on our behavior?
[19:01] Speaker 4: Here?
[19:03] Speaker 6: Uh?
[19:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, good questions. So I believe.
[19:04] Speaker 5: Like so again, like it's it's all at base test
[19:07] Speaker 5: on free will, right. So uh and so when it
[19:09] Speaker 5: comes to do you know how like so do you
[19:11] Speaker 5: know they say like we're humans having a human experience, right,
[19:14] Speaker 5: m hm, would you be would it be safe to
[19:16] Speaker 5: say that a line or a tiger or there or
[19:18] Speaker 5: a cat or dog is having an animal experience?
[19:20] Speaker 1: I would imagine that we're having an animal experience here.
[19:24] Speaker 1: I mean, uh, strictly speaking, a tiger is having a
[19:27] Speaker 1: tiger experience. But I mean, I thought, my I don't
[19:31] Speaker 1: see how this suggessses my question though, And no, maybe
[19:34] Speaker 1: as my life are not actually asking the right question.
[19:36] Speaker 1: I'm just trying to figure out in your worldview, is
[19:39] Speaker 1: there an after life? And does the afterlife include rewards
[19:43] Speaker 1: and or punishments?
[19:45] Speaker 4: Yeah?
[19:45] Speaker 1: Right here, this is this is where it is right here.
[19:47] Speaker 5: So so in my in my opinion that the after
[19:50] Speaker 5: the after life can come in in different and different
[19:53] Speaker 5: different ways in my opinion, right, And that's why I
[19:54] Speaker 5: said that the animals, right because in my pin like that,
[19:58] Speaker 5: would you agree, like, I know, I know you may
[20:00] Speaker 5: not believe in a god, but would you agree with
[20:03] Speaker 5: me that there's a possibility that that there is a
[20:07] Speaker 5: that that that so do you know for whatever reason
[20:09] Speaker 5: it was that me and you are you got to
[20:12] Speaker 5: live our lives for whatever?
[20:15] Speaker 2: All right?
[20:15] Speaker 1: So can you see the screen right now. Oh yeah,
[20:19] Speaker 1: I can see the screen. Oh okay, I'm gonna put
[20:22] Speaker 1: a question on the board. The question is, is there
[20:24] Speaker 1: as an afterlife? Possibilities are yes, no, or I don't
[20:29] Speaker 1: know which one? Is it?
[20:31] Speaker 4: Yes?
[20:31] Speaker 1: I would say yes, but I'll say before that. Okay, Yeah, great,
[20:34] Speaker 1: that's what we're looking for. Okay. Number two. Question number
[20:37] Speaker 1: two is will there be rewards and punishments? Yes? No?
[20:49] Speaker 1: Or maybe yes? Yes? Great? Okay, So the next question
[20:53] Speaker 1: needs to be Q three What are those?
[21:00] Speaker 6: Oh?
[21:00] Speaker 1: Okay, So here's for example, here's an example of punishments. Right.
[21:04] Speaker 5: So let's say, for example, there's there's uh, there's a
[21:06] Speaker 5: human being, for example, that's lived a life where they've
[21:09] Speaker 5: did a lot of bad things, right, And this is
[21:11] Speaker 5: somebody that you would deemis mighty that deserves to quote
[21:13] Speaker 5: unquote burning hill, Right, But instead of burning in hell
[21:17] Speaker 5: in his next lifetime, he has to exist in the
[21:19] Speaker 5: form of a small or weaker animal that is unable
[21:22] Speaker 5: to defend himself against larger animals that hunt him on
[21:25] Speaker 5: a daily basis.
[21:26] Speaker 1: Okay, So it sounds like you believe in reincarnation somewhat
[21:30] Speaker 1: like that.
[21:30] Speaker 5: Yes, So I'm saying it's just I believe that we
[21:32] Speaker 5: we get reincarnated into different life forms based on the
[21:35] Speaker 5: previous lives that we live because we have lessons to learn.
[21:38] Speaker 1: Great, we think we can do whatever we want to
[21:40] Speaker 1: do and get away with.
[21:41] Speaker 3: It, you know.
[21:42] Speaker 1: Fantastic. Okay, So you believe in reincarnation, easy, So, so
[21:46] Speaker 1: you believe in God that that created all things and
[21:50] Speaker 1: that created humans to reincarnate. He's not sending people to
[21:53] Speaker 1: hell or anything like that. Is there a heaven? Yeah?
[21:59] Speaker 1: I believe there is a as some some call it heaven,
[22:02] Speaker 1: but I believe it's it's something of that nature. It's
[22:04] Speaker 1: something that's in another somewhat dimension or some sort. Is
[22:08] Speaker 1: just another world, right, I mean you get there when
[22:11] Speaker 1: you finally finish your like your karma evolution. Yeah.
[22:17] Speaker 5: Like again, like I could, I could be completely wrong,
[22:19] Speaker 5: but it's just based on personally for the like, we
[22:21] Speaker 5: we undergo many different life forms like so, so for example,
[22:24] Speaker 5: there's some you know, some may undergo like some may
[22:27] Speaker 5: reincarnate as an animal. Some may reincarnate later on in
[22:29] Speaker 5: life as a as a human being that has to
[22:31] Speaker 5: undergo like unfavorable circumstances in life. It may it may
[22:34] Speaker 5: even have some sort of form of a so so
[22:37] Speaker 5: you ever again I mean this, I don't mean it's
[22:39] Speaker 5: to offend anybody, right, It's just I've always wondered why
[22:42] Speaker 5: it seems like some human beings, it seems it seems
[22:44] Speaker 5: like like there was so much time and attention is
[22:47] Speaker 5: to put it like creating like very attractive people for example, right,
[22:50] Speaker 5: and it seems like there are some people who are
[22:51] Speaker 5: just so lucky genetically right. But then you wonder, like,
[22:54] Speaker 5: like there are just some people and like that are
[22:56] Speaker 5: born with like let's say, disabilities. Are it seems they
[23:00] Speaker 5: whatever reason, we're given the short end of the stick.
[23:02] Speaker 5: I don't mean it's in an offensive way, but it's
[23:04] Speaker 5: just you just nerve so that that's what I mean.
[23:05] Speaker 5: It's just like it makes you wonder why that is?
[23:08] Speaker 1: Right? Okay, why is why does.
[23:09] Speaker 5: It seem like some people were so much time and
[23:11] Speaker 5: intention were putting created to some people, But it just
[23:13] Speaker 5: seems like some people are they were just given the
[23:16] Speaker 5: short end of the stick.
[23:17] Speaker 1: Why do you think that is? Is it just by
[23:19] Speaker 1: random or coincidence? Yea, the universe doesn't care you. So
[23:24] Speaker 1: what you're what you're describing as a universe that is
[23:27] Speaker 1: led by chance rather than a deity. But I don't
[23:33] Speaker 1: think we need to worry about that just yet. So
[23:35] Speaker 1: let's get on to the the initial question, which is
[23:39] Speaker 1: like what reason, what evidence would warrant a belief in
[23:44] Speaker 1: this type of a god? Like why would someone like
[23:46] Speaker 1: me believe in this? So again it comes down to
[23:51] Speaker 1: personal belief because again like so do you see how.
[23:54] Speaker 5: We live in a road like where there's like all
[23:56] Speaker 5: of these different planets and things like that that are
[23:58] Speaker 5: made out of gases and stuff. They're just completely inhabitable
[24:01] Speaker 5: for human life for usoever, right, But it's just like
[24:03] Speaker 5: it's just it's just there's just something about our reality
[24:06] Speaker 5: where it just seems like do you see like how
[24:08] Speaker 5: just like a human beings, do you feel like it
[24:10] Speaker 5: seems like we're we were intentionally designed as a test.
[24:13] Speaker 5: It's like we we could have very easily been created
[24:15] Speaker 5: where we were, where we stand our standard, what we
[24:18] Speaker 5: we only had, like we were created with fists with
[24:21] Speaker 5: no fingers, or we we were only created with one eyebuddies,
[24:24] Speaker 5: just we were we were created in such a precise
[24:26] Speaker 5: way as humans to to and and to to to
[24:29] Speaker 5: do whatever we we we desire to do as like
[24:32] Speaker 5: a test or free world.
[24:33] Speaker 1: What evans is there that we were created? Because it
[24:35] Speaker 1: sounds like you're saying, listen, we were created to be
[24:38] Speaker 1: a particular way, and you're trying to figure out if
[24:41] Speaker 1: we were created to be this way, what what would
[24:44] Speaker 1: make for a sensible deity? But I don't even believe
[24:47] Speaker 1: that we were created, so we would have to start there,
[24:50] Speaker 1: like what evidence do you have that we were even created?
[24:53] Speaker 5: Okay, so perfect example, right, So do you know like
[24:55] Speaker 5: how me? Uh so, do you know like how for
[24:57] Speaker 5: whatever reason it was decided that me, you, when everybody
[25:00] Speaker 5: else in this life, we get to live our life
[25:03] Speaker 5: and existence as human beings, right, But for whatever reason
[25:06] Speaker 5: it was decided that like you're a line or that cat,
[25:08] Speaker 5: a cat or a dog has to live their lives
[25:10] Speaker 5: as an animal. So would you agree that there's some
[25:13] Speaker 5: sort of there could possibly some sort of higher power
[25:15] Speaker 5: that decides that we get to live our lives as
[25:17] Speaker 5: human beings and a cat or a dog has to
[25:19] Speaker 5: live their life or existence as an animal.
[25:21] Speaker 1: No, I don't think any of the mind made that decision.
[25:24] Speaker 1: I think what happened was individual like individual individual species
[25:35] Speaker 1: developed through evolution on the Earth and then they adapted
[25:38] Speaker 1: to their environments. That's why a dog is a dog
[25:41] Speaker 1: and a dog is not a cat, and why a
[25:43] Speaker 1: cat is not a lizard, and only Obama is a
[25:46] Speaker 1: lizard person according to to Ike, So.
[25:51] Speaker 5: You're like, so there are sometimes where I think, like
[25:54] Speaker 5: man like, I may not be I may not be
[25:56] Speaker 5: so like I'm grateful in my life and circumstances. Things
[26:00] Speaker 5: may not be perfect, but at least like, I'm not
[26:02] Speaker 5: a weaker animal in the jungle that can't defend himselves,
[26:05] Speaker 5: like when a lion or tigers like like shows up.
[26:08] Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
[26:09] Speaker 1: You never noticed so like like this like so hear
[26:13] Speaker 1: me out right here? Right? So this this goes back
[26:15] Speaker 1: to that example. Right, So let's say, for example, there's
[26:17] Speaker 1: say that's let's say there's a right but stood a
[26:20] Speaker 1: stood in a business. I want to make sure we're
[26:21] Speaker 1: staying focused because the question is why would I believe
[26:26] Speaker 1: that we were created as opposed to evolved?
[26:31] Speaker 5: Okay, okay, so here's a perfect example, right, because so
[26:35] Speaker 5: do you see how like our current our current state
[26:38] Speaker 5: of reality, it could It's so it depends on an individual, right,
[26:42] Speaker 5: But to many people, it's very easy to look at
[26:44] Speaker 5: our current reality Seeson, and it comes to the conclusion
[26:46] Speaker 5: that there's an intentional designer, our creator.
[26:48] Speaker 1: Right.
[26:48] Speaker 5: I don't believe it seems but when you but when
[26:50] Speaker 5: you look at it from a scientific perspective, there are
[26:52] Speaker 5: a lot of there's a lot of scientific explanations for things.
[26:55] Speaker 1: Right. So I'm a problem firm believer that the God
[26:58] Speaker 1: knew to strategically structure of things in such a way
[27:01] Speaker 1: to where to where it gets like I'm saying, is
[27:05] Speaker 1: are you trying to say that there is an innate
[27:08] Speaker 1: desire to believe in God?
[27:11] Speaker 5: So again, so like like I believe that God or
[27:14] Speaker 5: where our God purposely created our existence in such a
[27:17] Speaker 5: way as a test to where it's It's like.
[27:19] Speaker 1: No, I know what you believe. No, no, no, I know
[27:21] Speaker 1: what you believe. I'm not asking you to tell me
[27:22] Speaker 1: what you believe. I'm asking to support the premise. Right. So,
[27:26] Speaker 1: your claim right now that we're we're working on is
[27:29] Speaker 1: that you think human beings were created. Cool, but you
[27:33] Speaker 1: haven't given me any support for that claim. Great, you
[27:36] Speaker 1: think we're created? What would lead one to believe evidence
[27:41] Speaker 1: that we were in fact created? Uh? Again, so you
[27:47] Speaker 1: know that like the Big Bang theory and like evolution,
[27:50] Speaker 1: all of these things. That's what I'm saying.
[27:51] Speaker 5: I'm not saying I believe that God the most like
[27:54] Speaker 5: it was is set all of that stuff up to
[27:56] Speaker 5: set in the plant like dinosaurs and all of that stuff.
[27:58] Speaker 1: Yet it all planned out God, God planned it. Son
[28:02] Speaker 1: percent of human life on the planet would go into extinction. Yeah,
[28:08] Speaker 1: it's all planned on man, trust me, many got it.
[28:11] Speaker 1: So I just want to make sure. I want to
[28:13] Speaker 1: make sure that our reality that we're staying in linear
[28:16] Speaker 1: right now, because this is not actually an answer to
[28:18] Speaker 1: my question, You're just reiterating more of your beliefs. I'm
[28:21] Speaker 1: asking you for an argument or piece of evidence that
[28:24] Speaker 1: would support the claim that we were created by something.
[28:28] Speaker 1: What's the evidence of that?
[28:32] Speaker 5: Just just how just the way we're created. So for
[28:37] Speaker 5: an example, here's here's a perfect example. Right, Let's say
[28:40] Speaker 5: that I'm a god, right, and let's say that, hey,
[28:41] Speaker 5: you know what, I'll randomly want to create a randomly
[28:44] Speaker 5: species called human beings. Right, It makes it makes complete
[28:48] Speaker 5: sense that I will create human beings in such a
[28:50] Speaker 5: way that we're created. Right, So that'd being said, it
[28:53] Speaker 5: just seems very odd and unusual that we create where
[28:56] Speaker 5: we exist in such a very complex way. But like,
[28:59] Speaker 5: like is this there like out of magic? We just
[29:02] Speaker 5: we just exist out of magic, like our existence is
[29:05] Speaker 5: just magic.
[29:06] Speaker 1: No, no, no, you believe in magic. I believe in evolution.
[29:09] Speaker 1: You believe there's a floating, disebodied mind out in the
[29:12] Speaker 1: universe that poofed everything into existence. Abracadabra. I don't believe that.
[29:17] Speaker 1: I believe that we evolved from lower forms of life,
[29:22] Speaker 1: and then even before that, from chemical reactions. And this
[29:25] Speaker 1: is actually we actually have evidence for this. I'm just
[29:28] Speaker 1: looking for the evidence that we were created and I
[29:31] Speaker 1: haven't heard any against.
[29:33] Speaker 5: Oh so here's okay, I gotta have the perfect answer
[29:36] Speaker 5: for that, man. So let's uh so, let's say, for example,
[29:39] Speaker 5: let's let's say hypothetically, God, for for example, was one
[29:42] Speaker 5: hundred percent in real right, and he decided to reveal
[29:44] Speaker 5: himself to humanity, right and then and then, so, how
[29:48] Speaker 5: do you think life will go on? If God reviewed
[29:50] Speaker 5: himself to humanity and all the answers were clear, all
[29:53] Speaker 5: the answers to it existence.
[29:55] Speaker 1: And life will just just clear. Do you think will
[29:57] Speaker 1: want to be clear? Hypothetical questions are evidences? No?
[30:02] Speaker 5: No, because that's that if you when you look at
[30:04] Speaker 5: it from that way, that's that's a really good way.
[30:05] Speaker 5: That's a very that's a very valid way to answer
[30:07] Speaker 5: that question.
[30:08] Speaker 1: My way of saying.
[30:09] Speaker 7: Is, here's my valid And the point that I'm trying
[30:14] Speaker 7: to say is like it's just like like it's it's
[30:17] Speaker 7: going to be impossible for somebody to give one proof
[30:19] Speaker 7: that God is rule or God is fake.
[30:21] Speaker 1: I know I agree either way it's impossible.
[30:23] Speaker 5: Right, That's just so that's it's the best way thing
[30:25] Speaker 5: you can do is give your best argument, right, our
[30:27] Speaker 5: best supporting hypothesis.
[30:29] Speaker 1: Right stood a business Listen, I don't nobody knows for sure.
[30:32] Speaker 1: I don't think you're you're fully on board or fully
[30:37] Speaker 1: understanding how to present a rational argument. So let me
[30:41] Speaker 1: give you an argument for why I don't think your
[30:43] Speaker 1: God exists? Gotcha? Gotcha? Do you think your God's good? Uh?
[30:51] Speaker 5: I believe. I believe he's good. But he allows suffering,
[30:54] Speaker 5: as he suffering is allowed, evil is allowed.
[30:57] Speaker 1: But is he good though? Yes? I believe? So Okay?
[31:02] Speaker 1: Is he powerful?
[31:04] Speaker 8: Yes?
[31:04] Speaker 1: Yes, sir? Is there a limit to his goodness and
[31:07] Speaker 1: his power? No? I would say there's a limit. Or Okay,
[31:13] Speaker 1: so you would say that your God is all powerful
[31:15] Speaker 1: and all good? Yes great, yes awesome? Does he know stuff?
[31:22] Speaker 1: Does he know many things? Are all things? He knows
[31:27] Speaker 1: all things? Oh great? All right. So what we've got
[31:29] Speaker 1: then is an omni god, a triomni good, where he
[31:33] Speaker 1: knows all things. He he has all powers, and he's
[31:38] Speaker 1: all good. So entailed in this. If you believe that
[31:41] Speaker 1: he's all of these three things, you would also have
[31:43] Speaker 1: to agree that he only ever does the best thing
[31:47] Speaker 1: right like. So, for example, if if I had a choice,
[31:49] Speaker 1: right say, for example, I woke up Monday, and my
[31:53] Speaker 1: choice confronting me my Let's say my son dumped his
[31:58] Speaker 1: cereal out on the floor just made a huge us.
[32:00] Speaker 1: The choice that I'm confronted with is, you know, what
[32:03] Speaker 1: do I do to teach him a lesson that it's
[32:05] Speaker 1: not good to throw your ciare on a floor. And
[32:06] Speaker 1: let's imagine I have two choices. One choice is I
[32:09] Speaker 1: dumped the cereal on his head and then I poke
[32:11] Speaker 1: him in the eye. The other is I calmly explain
[32:14] Speaker 1: to him why you shouldn't throw cereal on the floor,
[32:17] Speaker 1: and then I make them clean it up and stuff.
[32:19] Speaker 1: One of those two choices is probably better than the other, Right,
[32:24] Speaker 1: I got you, Okay, So if one of those two
[32:26] Speaker 1: choices better than the other, what I'm suggesting is that God,
[32:30] Speaker 1: if he's all good, always have he always has to
[32:33] Speaker 1: do the better. Anytime there's a decision, he has to
[32:36] Speaker 1: do the better decision. Right, yeah, great, all right, So
[32:42] Speaker 1: what we would get with this is, let's go back
[32:44] Speaker 1: to what you started with. You're like, let's look at
[32:47] Speaker 1: the world around us and analyze the world around us
[32:49] Speaker 1: and ask ourselves what would make the most sense of
[32:53] Speaker 1: the world around us. And I don't believe a God
[32:55] Speaker 1: that's all knowing, all powerful, and all good would make
[32:58] Speaker 1: this world because we have natural disasters that in fact
[33:02] Speaker 1: cause all kinds of harm. It even vegetabized people. And
[33:06] Speaker 1: people think natural disasters are bad just because they like
[33:08] Speaker 1: people get killed. But some people just get turned vegetabilized
[33:11] Speaker 1: for the rest of their life. Little babies get vegetabilized
[33:14] Speaker 1: for their entire life. Right, And so this to me
[33:17] Speaker 1: doesn't seem like it's in line with the God that
[33:22] Speaker 1: is all good, because a God that was all good
[33:24] Speaker 1: and all powerful could have made a world without any
[33:27] Speaker 1: of the unnecessary suffering.
[33:31] Speaker 5: I gue what you're saying, brother, But if that were
[33:33] Speaker 5: the case, So if God created that, and then that's
[33:36] Speaker 5: why I feel that natural disasters and things like suffering
[33:38] Speaker 5: have to exist because you see.
[33:40] Speaker 1: How we live in a world that we do a
[33:42] Speaker 1: lot of bad things and things.
[33:43] Speaker 5: We can do whatever you wan to do, right, so
[33:45] Speaker 5: it makes complete sense that God will allow suffering as
[33:47] Speaker 5: a consequence.
[33:48] Speaker 1: Person we can do whatever we want to do. Perfect Okay,
[33:51] Speaker 1: So we're getting somewhere, Oica, So you're what you're suggesting,
[33:53] Speaker 1: and again we're not talking about free will, we're talking
[33:56] Speaker 1: about natural disasters. Okay, So what you're saying is that
[33:59] Speaker 1: the natural disasters are necessary. They have to happen, right.
[34:03] Speaker 5: I think natural disasters are for goods to show what
[34:05] Speaker 5: his power, that he could take us all out if
[34:07] Speaker 5: he wanted to, or however he chooses.
[34:10] Speaker 1: I'm not saying that I have. This is an easy question.
[34:13] Speaker 1: Are the natural disasters necessary? Do they have to be
[34:16] Speaker 1: that way or could it be another way? I believe
[34:20] Speaker 1: so I believe they're necessary. Okay, So the question we
[34:23] Speaker 1: would ask ourselves is what are they necessary for?
[34:28] Speaker 5: So here's here's a perfect example. Do you see how
[34:30] Speaker 5: like all these wars and stuff going on right now
[34:31] Speaker 5: and you see it. Like, I know, it's very easy
[34:33] Speaker 5: to believe that, like like we live in a perfect
[34:35] Speaker 5: robo reality, Like we live in a very evil jack
[34:37] Speaker 5: the world with a lot of bad things going on.
[34:40] Speaker 5: So I in my that's why I pray some day
[34:42] Speaker 5: that like an article cappin and like take us all
[34:44] Speaker 5: out and reset this motherfucker. You know what I'm saying.
[34:48] Speaker 1: I just try to focus right, natural disasters. I didn't
[34:53] Speaker 1: mean to go. I don't mean to go that farm
[34:54] Speaker 1: about natural disasters go into a lot of different varieties.
[34:57] Speaker 1: There are a lot of different kinds of natural disasters,
[34:59] Speaker 1: and sometimes they wipe populations out. Sometimes they just kill
[35:03] Speaker 1: one hundred people. Sometimes you know, they you know, they
[35:07] Speaker 1: kill an entire Christian camp. But what I'm trying to
[35:10] Speaker 1: figure out, though, is is all of the natural disasters, right,
[35:14] Speaker 1: all of them in their totality. Do we have to
[35:17] Speaker 1: have them? Or is it possible we could improve the
[35:21] Speaker 1: world without them. I believe that we have to have them.
[35:25] Speaker 1: I believe that we I believe that we have to. Okay,
[35:27] Speaker 1: so why do we have to have them?
[35:33] Speaker 5: Because, like I said, they serve a good a good
[35:36] Speaker 5: as a as a good and a like like like
[35:39] Speaker 5: for example, like there's no there's really no consec country,
[35:42] Speaker 5: there's no consequences for our actions.
[35:43] Speaker 1: So I do feel that those are a good good
[35:46] Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So you think God sends
[35:49] Speaker 1: natural disasters as consequences for people's bad behavior, Yeah, I
[35:54] Speaker 1: believe so. So like when a when a building falls
[35:57] Speaker 1: on a baby, like that baby, we deserve to have
[36:00] Speaker 1: the building fall on it.
[36:03] Speaker 5: So I'm not even I'm not religious, but I remember
[36:05] Speaker 5: reading somewhere that like, like as as a result of
[36:09] Speaker 5: of us, uh of us like us, because it since
[36:13] Speaker 5: the beginning of time as humans, we were naturally like
[36:16] Speaker 5: uhtained by evil and things like that. So as a
[36:19] Speaker 5: cause of that, we we we we we as a
[36:22] Speaker 5: as a cause and consequence of us, you know, seeing
[36:24] Speaker 5: and things like that and evil, we have to exist
[36:26] Speaker 5: in a world where we were sustainable to freak accidents,
[36:29] Speaker 5: natural disasters, sickness, is diseases, all kinds of things like that.
[36:33] Speaker 1: Okay, so so now it seems like you're switching your
[36:37] Speaker 1: answer right. First it was they were necessary to like
[36:39] Speaker 1: teach us something, and now we're we finally we're on
[36:42] Speaker 1: an example where like nobody's learning anything, Like a baby
[36:46] Speaker 1: just gets murdered by a building following on it. Now
[36:49] Speaker 1: you're saying, well, the reason why some of the evil
[36:53] Speaker 1: exists is not because it needs to exist, but because
[36:55] Speaker 1: it's just a result of human sin. Is that what
[36:58] Speaker 1: you're saying? Okay, So do you know, like there are
[37:02] Speaker 1: people that if God exists, to how come, why does God?
[37:04] Speaker 1: Why come? God stop this? Why won't God stop that?
[37:06] Speaker 1: Right now, that's not my question, that's not my question.
[37:12] Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on, hold on. I asked a yes
[37:13] Speaker 1: or no question. I don't need all the explanation. I
[37:16] Speaker 1: just need a yes or no. Are you suggesting that
[37:19] Speaker 1: some of the natural disasters aren't here to teach us anything,
[37:23] Speaker 1: it's just a consequence of living in a sinful world?
[37:26] Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying. I believe that.
[37:29] Speaker 5: I believe those That's not the only purpose, but I
[37:31] Speaker 5: do believe that those consequences are.
[37:33] Speaker 1: I just need a yes or no. I just need
[37:35] Speaker 1: a yes or no. I need to know. Okay, So
[37:38] Speaker 1: you believe some of the natural disasters aren't here to
[37:42] Speaker 1: teach us anything. It's literally just here because we live
[37:45] Speaker 1: in a sinful world. Now you're suggesting then that a
[37:49] Speaker 1: consequence of being sinful humans means that there are natural disasters.
[37:55] Speaker 1: And this is where I think things really start to
[37:56] Speaker 1: fall apart from the worldview, which is that if in
[38:00] Speaker 1: fact it is the case that the natural disasters are punishment, right,
[38:04] Speaker 1: because that's not what you're saying, right, We sin? So
[38:06] Speaker 1: God created natural disasters partially as a punishment. But did
[38:10] Speaker 1: God have to create that particular punishment or could he
[38:13] Speaker 1: have particularly he could he have made a punishment for
[38:16] Speaker 1: sin that where like innocent babies didn't get horrifically executed.
[38:23] Speaker 5: Uh, that's a good question, man. So again, I'm a
[38:25] Speaker 5: firm believer that things are exist. So so okay, here's
[38:29] Speaker 5: here's an example. Do you ever want to, like, why
[38:31] Speaker 5: why I've always wondered, like, why do we live in
[38:33] Speaker 5: a road where I've always wanted to like, as someone
[38:35] Speaker 5: who believes in God, like, why do we live in
[38:37] Speaker 5: a road where we can't feel pain?
[38:39] Speaker 1: Right? So that way we can just exist in one
[38:41] Speaker 1: road and we don't we don't have to worry about
[38:42] Speaker 1: getting hurt and harmed and things like that. Right.
[38:45] Speaker 5: So That's what I'm trying to say, is is our
[38:46] Speaker 5: existence is just? Is is we were created as humans
[38:50] Speaker 5: and and and for whatever reason, some humans just have
[38:53] Speaker 5: to undergo certain experiences as a result for humanity to
[38:57] Speaker 5: learn lessons and just to look at life from a
[38:59] Speaker 5: certain perspective.
[39:00] Speaker 1: Right, so easy to think that really stood in ground,
[39:06] Speaker 1: that sit on ground. I really want to have a
[39:08] Speaker 1: good conversation with you because I think you're a nice person,
[39:11] Speaker 1: and I love nice people. The problem we're having is
[39:14] Speaker 1: like I keep asking like yes or no questions, and
[39:17] Speaker 1: I don't get yes or nos. So I'm asking these
[39:20] Speaker 1: questions because I'm trying to analyze what you believe and
[39:24] Speaker 1: understand your your worldview. The problem. Oh, his connection just dropped. Shit.
[39:31] Speaker 1: That's a shame because he was a nice guy. I
[39:32] Speaker 1: think we could have got somewhere on his worldview. I
[39:36] Speaker 1: just he couldn't seem to He couldn't seem to focus
[39:39] Speaker 1: on the questions at hand. Shit. Oh well, anyways, I
[39:44] Speaker 1: guess we'll move on to the next one. Welcome in, friends,
[39:48] Speaker 1: We're having a lot of fun. The live stream is
[39:51] Speaker 1: is open. Thank you everyone who just came in on
[39:53] Speaker 1: the Thinker raid. W Thinker. I'll tell you what. If
[39:57] Speaker 1: there's a battie on TikTok, name is Thinker. She's awesome.
[40:04] Speaker 1: She's awesome. She's you know you hear in different fields
[40:09] Speaker 1: of study, being like a dual threat. She's like a
[40:11] Speaker 1: triple or a quadruple threat. She's good at literally everything. Cameron,
[40:15] Speaker 1: my friend, thank you for the supertest, says Hello, sir,
[40:17] Speaker 1: Happy Friday. It's my older sons, I mean older son.
[40:21] Speaker 1: It's my older son's birthday today. Well, happy birthday to
[40:24] Speaker 1: your older son. I hope we are cooking enough for
[40:27] Speaker 1: everyone today. Love you justin well, Cameron, I love you
[40:30] Speaker 1: as well, and tell your son happy birthday for me.
[40:34] Speaker 1: Definitely big w on another trip around the sun. And
[40:38] Speaker 1: thank you for supporting Cameron and also Jennifer, thank you
[40:42] Speaker 1: for gifting out a DZ Debate membership. I really appreciate that.
[40:46] Speaker 1: And fierce interaction, my friend, great to see you. Thank
[40:48] Speaker 1: you for the ten that supertest says Denise to be
[40:51] Speaker 1: here or nice to be here for some daytime cooking
[40:55] Speaker 1: rock hard for dog. Hell yeah, fierce interaction. I appreciate
[40:59] Speaker 1: this sediment. I really do, I really do. And the
[41:02] Speaker 1: may the courts of Doug beyond you and the dandy
[41:05] Speaker 1: Fox says next, Phil Bro, can we skip the normal
[41:08] Speaker 1: arguments and jump to how does this prove God and
[41:10] Speaker 1: exclude others. The same premise can be used for Toth.
[41:14] Speaker 1: I agree, Actually, Dandy, I agree, and I was the
[41:17] Speaker 1: guest was nice. I was giving them leeway to lead
[41:20] Speaker 1: the conversation. You guys know me, Listen, if a guest
[41:23] Speaker 1: comes in and they're being nice and polite, I can
[41:26] Speaker 1: let them control kind of the flow of conversation. If
[41:30] Speaker 1: they're coming up and they're being obtuse assholes, that's when
[41:33] Speaker 1: you know, I have to like clamp down on the
[41:36] Speaker 1: conversation and be like, listen, motherfucker, you're gonna answer my
[41:39] Speaker 1: questions or I'm going to move on. Kyle says, So,
[41:41] Speaker 1: are we going to be destroyed by the Sun first
[41:43] Speaker 1: or the Andromeda galaxy collision first? My understanding, Kyle is
[41:47] Speaker 1: it's going to be the Sun first, and then most
[41:50] Speaker 1: likely It's not a guarantee, but most likely in the
[41:52] Speaker 1: Andromeda Galaxy. Now, when our galaxies collide, it's not a
[41:56] Speaker 1: guarantee that it'll be a complete annihilation. It's not a guarantee.
[42:02] Speaker 1: It just seems very likely because it could be that
[42:04] Speaker 1: as the constellation's mix, or as the galaxies mix, like
[42:09] Speaker 1: the tails swipe each other and they keep going, it
[42:13] Speaker 1: could be that the gravitational pull brings them together and
[42:16] Speaker 1: they they start doing the black hole circle, and then
[42:19] Speaker 1: they combine into a giant mass. It's hard to know.
[42:23] Speaker 1: NASA did a really cool video on it, though. Adam Brown,
[42:26] Speaker 1: thinking for the ten that our supertit says you should
[42:28] Speaker 1: start granting the prime mover argument and the like in
[42:31] Speaker 1: order to force Philbros. Or Thor Bros. To prove Christian God.
[42:36] Speaker 1: That is, force them into the Bible they've never read. Actually, Adam,
[42:39] Speaker 1: I think I might do that. That's one of the
[42:41] Speaker 1: reasons why I invented Doug was because I was so
[42:44] Speaker 1: tired of having this dog shit conversation about prime movers.
[42:48] Speaker 1: They never actually work, they never go anywhere. I can
[42:51] Speaker 1: grant you a prime mover and just tell you that
[42:53] Speaker 1: it's Doug. But I could also just grant you a
[42:57] Speaker 1: prime mover and make you prove that it's a Christian
[42:59] Speaker 1: God because they cool. I believe in the Deist God.
[43:01] Speaker 1: Now you've you've convinced me I believe in the Daist God.
[43:04] Speaker 1: Now tell me why in fact, it's not a Deist God,
[43:07] Speaker 1: but it's the Christian God. And maxis thanks be to
[43:10] Speaker 1: Doug in his prophet. I'm still buying and reading lots
[43:13] Speaker 1: of books reading God's War. Now readers are leaders. Hell yeah, Max,
[43:18] Speaker 1: God's War is a great book too, Like Gus. If
[43:19] Speaker 1: you like history and you want to learn about the Crusades, man,
[43:23] Speaker 1: pick up God's War. That there's so much material there.
[43:29] Speaker 1: It's it's a hefty read. Okay, you're not gonna not
[43:32] Speaker 1: toilet reading. You're not gonna get through in a weekend.
[43:34] Speaker 1: It's it's a hawcy it's a hawsy book. All right.
[43:38] Speaker 1: Let me grab our next guest. We've had Sergio waiting
[43:42] Speaker 1: to get in, so we'll get Sergio. And how you doing? Sergio? Sergio? Hello, Sergio,
[43:55] Speaker 1: I can hear you. Okay, can you hear me? Serdium buddy,
[44:05] Speaker 1: is your microphone turned on?
[44:09] Speaker 3: Hey?
[44:09] Speaker 2: Hello, can you hear me?
[44:10] Speaker 4: Well?
[44:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, I can hear you. Yeah, we can hear you.
[44:13] Speaker 2: Hello.
[44:13] Speaker 1: Nice to me to justin be following you for a while,
[44:16] Speaker 1: and thank you so much, sir. Is it Sergio's Did
[44:18] Speaker 1: I say that correctly? Yes?
[44:20] Speaker 2: I hear you double though. Don't know if I should
[44:22] Speaker 2: mute YouTube or the call.
[44:25] Speaker 1: I mean I would just turn YouTube off if you're
[44:28] Speaker 1: on the call.
[44:30] Speaker 2: Yes, okay, can you hear me. Well, now I can
[44:32] Speaker 2: hear you, Okay, I can hear you.
[44:34] Speaker 1: Nice.
[44:35] Speaker 2: Yeah, so yes, I'm over eighteen and I am a believer.
[44:38] Speaker 1: Cool, awesome, And what do you believe in?
[44:41] Speaker 2: I'm trying my best to be Catholic. It's being difficult
[44:44] Speaker 2: to be honest.
[44:45] Speaker 1: I understand, actually, to be fair, if you're going to
[44:48] Speaker 1: be in the Christian variety, I think there's a lot
[44:51] Speaker 1: of things that the Catholics do that make a lot
[44:53] Speaker 1: of sense that the Protestants miss out on. But nevertheless,
[44:56] Speaker 1: I don't think that's a tenable position. But never last,
[45:00] Speaker 1: there must be something about it that keeps you in it.
[45:04] Speaker 1: So I'm curious to know right now what is the
[45:07] Speaker 1: thing that is keeping you in it? Like, what's the
[45:09] Speaker 1: thing where you're thinking about and you're like, listen, the
[45:11] Speaker 1: more I think about it, the more it just, you know,
[45:14] Speaker 1: it makes me think that it's true. What's that thing? Oh?
[45:17] Speaker 2: No, you don't have to think about it, because the
[45:18] Speaker 2: more I think about it, the worse it gets.
[45:20] Speaker 1: To be honest, The.
[45:22] Speaker 9: Thing with Christianity, as it is with all the also
[45:25] Speaker 9: other Eastern philosophies, is that it tries to break your brain,
[45:29] Speaker 9: to split it in alp so you can go crazy
[45:31] Speaker 9: for God in a sense, I think that the underlying
[45:35] Speaker 9: principle behind using the Bible as a point of reference
[45:39] Speaker 9: and everything else, you have to hack yourself, right, That's
[45:42] Speaker 9: the same thing to do like Buddhist monk do. So
[45:45] Speaker 9: what got me into Catholicism Because I wasn't a Catholic ago, Well,
[45:50] Speaker 9: I'm form Italy, so here everything is Catholic, let's say.
[45:53] Speaker 9: But I wasn't really believing until a.
[45:55] Speaker 2: Year ago then. I mean I was born in the culture.
[45:59] Speaker 2: Of course, I'm baptized and so on and so forth,
[46:01] Speaker 2: but I didn't really get it. They don't even explain
[46:03] Speaker 2: it properly when when you're a child, right, they don't
[46:06] Speaker 2: tell you what's going on. So a year ago I
[46:09] Speaker 2: had a very strong personal experience. It was in a Citz,
[46:13] Speaker 2: which is a city in Italy from where the Saint
[46:16] Speaker 2: Francis is from. And I remember I was driving there
[46:20] Speaker 2: for a business meeting, like something completely unrelated to religion,
[46:25] Speaker 2: and as I was getting closer to the city, I
[46:27] Speaker 2: started crying out of nowhere in the car for absolutely noism.
[46:32] Speaker 2: And I could feel this very strong sense of love
[46:35] Speaker 2: and I felt very moved within me. But it was
[46:38] Speaker 2: like supernatural in a sense. I never felt anything like that.
[46:41] Speaker 2: It was very pure and really coming out of nowhere.
[46:44] Speaker 2: And then I remember I was walking around the city
[46:46] Speaker 2: after the meeting and I started crying again, Like my
[46:51] Speaker 2: ex girlfriend was with me back then, and she saw
[46:53] Speaker 2: me like crying out and nowhere in the streets, and
[46:56] Speaker 2: I had my heart like cracked open by this spiritual lave.
[47:00] Speaker 2: I would say, which back then, it just made sense
[47:03] Speaker 2: to me that I was feeling the energy of the saint.
[47:05] Speaker 2: That's how I interpreted it, because it was It was
[47:08] Speaker 2: definitely not a suggestion. There anybody who suggested himself into
[47:12] Speaker 2: feeling something like that. Cassie, a couple of questions, Please
[47:16] Speaker 2: go ahead. Do you know about the dancing plague of
[47:19] Speaker 2: fifteen eighteen?
[47:21] Speaker 1: No?
[47:21] Speaker 2: Was it when they maybe when they ate like bread
[47:24] Speaker 2: with the mushroom inside they made people go crazy something
[47:29] Speaker 2: like that.
[47:30] Speaker 1: No, So it was in somewhere in France. I forget
[47:38] Speaker 1: what part of France it was in, but it was
[47:40] Speaker 1: in what we call France today. There was a woman
[47:43] Speaker 1: who just she was so overcome with religious fervor that
[47:48] Speaker 1: she felt like she had to walk out into the
[47:52] Speaker 1: out of her house and dance, and then she just
[47:54] Speaker 1: kept dancing and dancing and dancing. And then other people
[47:58] Speaker 1: saw her dancing and they're like, I have to dance,
[48:01] Speaker 1: and then they started dancing. Before it was all said
[48:03] Speaker 1: and done, literally hundreds of people nearly died of exhaustion
[48:09] Speaker 1: because of the dancing Plague of fifteen eighteen, and all
[48:12] Speaker 1: of them would have said the same thing. I was
[48:14] Speaker 1: overcome by this spiritual experience, right, But like this seems
[48:18] Speaker 1: to be like nonsensical. It reminds me of that time
[48:21] Speaker 1: in the Bible where King Saul was overcome with the
[48:25] Speaker 1: spirit of God and it caused him. I think it's
[48:29] Speaker 1: in First Samuel chapter twelve. I could be wrong, and
[48:35] Speaker 1: in his prophetic frenzy he takes all of his clothes offs,
[48:38] Speaker 1: but now he's out there prophesying but neckin.
[48:41] Speaker 8: Yeah.
[48:42] Speaker 1: Right. I think people are pretty disposed to what we
[48:47] Speaker 1: would call spiritual experiences. And I don't know, I don't
[48:53] Speaker 1: think that they're unique. They seem to happen in like
[48:57] Speaker 1: all religious cultures. So like the fact that you had one,
[49:02] Speaker 1: I think just means that you're having a human experience.
[49:06] Speaker 9: Yeah, I see what you mean. So something I've been
[49:08] Speaker 9: trying to figure out, is exactly this are the what
[49:12] Speaker 9: we call spiritual experiences, religious experiences self created, Like my
[49:16] Speaker 9: mind can push the right buttons under certain circumstances and
[49:19] Speaker 9: make me feel stuff that makes me believe in something bigger,
[49:22] Speaker 9: because that's the only way I have to interpret it.
[49:25] Speaker 9: Or there actually is God who happens to follow certain
[49:30] Speaker 9: rules and so on and so forth, and that's like
[49:32] Speaker 9: an external force that gets into you. That's what I've
[49:34] Speaker 9: been trying to figure out. So I didn't know about
[49:38] Speaker 9: the dancing flag. And in fact, so what are you
[49:41] Speaker 9: suggesting is that basically in this city there was something
[49:44] Speaker 9: that triggered me, you might say, and so out of
[49:47] Speaker 9: the trigger, I had this experience, I had a moment
[49:49] Speaker 9: of insanity, that's what you're saying.
[49:53] Speaker 1: I mean, I don't I wouldn't say it that way.
[49:55] Speaker 1: I think people like normal people, right, I think normal
[50:00] Speaker 1: people have these types of spiritual experiences. In fact, one
[50:03] Speaker 1: of my favorite examples, and everyone who's been here long
[50:06] Speaker 1: enough kind of partly heard it, is about one hundred
[50:09] Speaker 1: people a year are hospitalized in Jerusalem with Jerusalem syndrome.
[50:13] Speaker 1: That's when they finally make a pilgrimage to the Holy City,
[50:17] Speaker 1: and they're so overcome with like spiritual fervor that they
[50:21] Speaker 1: start to believe that they are the reincarnated second Coming
[50:25] Speaker 1: of Jesus, and then they have to get hospitalized and
[50:28] Speaker 1: talked off the ledge. But I think these are these
[50:32] Speaker 1: are normal human experiences because we're really susceptible to what's
[50:37] Speaker 1: the world I'm looking for. We're really susceptible to suggestion.
[50:41] Speaker 1: That's why hypnotism works so well, is because a lot
[50:44] Speaker 1: of people are susceptible to suggestion.
[50:48] Speaker 2: I see, yeah, I used to practice it, knows it's
[50:51] Speaker 2: like five years ago even more. And I also remember
[50:54] Speaker 2: I am difficult to hypnotize because my mind is wide
[50:58] Speaker 2: in a certain way. I have I don't know, a
[50:59] Speaker 2: bunch of albums or something that makes it difficult to
[51:01] Speaker 2: hypnotize me.
[51:02] Speaker 1: In fact, hypnotists don't like me.
[51:05] Speaker 2: So another thing I'm wondering is this, I'm reading books
[51:09] Speaker 2: from monks, and I'm reading sometimes the life of saints.
[51:12] Speaker 2: Of course, there is Saint Francis. There is even a
[51:15] Speaker 2: phenomena in Orthodoxy called people who go crazy for Christ.
[51:19] Speaker 2: I don't know the name in English, but it just
[51:21] Speaker 2: happens right that sometimes there is a saint who goes
[51:24] Speaker 2: naked and does random shit to trigger people, or it
[51:27] Speaker 2: does random stuff that happened to bring great results that
[51:32] Speaker 2: were completely unforeseeable. Right that there was a guy in Russia,
[51:35] Speaker 2: for example, it was famous for this. And so I wonder,
[51:38] Speaker 2: how can it be that there are so.
[51:39] Speaker 9: Many people, as you know, in Catholicism we have a
[51:42] Speaker 9: long tradition of monasticism, who decide to give up everything
[51:46] Speaker 9: right for this, for this God, like to devote themselves
[51:49] Speaker 9: to this, going through a lot of bagship. Actually, and
[51:53] Speaker 9: what I what I hear from them, because I also
[51:55] Speaker 9: like I came back to a cis, I went to
[51:58] Speaker 9: speak to the friars, to the friends Syscis, I went
[52:01] Speaker 9: to speak to Benedictine Monk too, and it just it
[52:05] Speaker 9: turns out that they all report something similar, like there's
[52:09] Speaker 9: something bigger than them that urges them and accompanies them
[52:12] Speaker 9: in the journey. It makes it bearable, makes it possible.
[52:15] Speaker 9: Of course, many fails, like it's not for everybody, but
[52:18] Speaker 9: there seems to be like I feel a rouge that
[52:22] Speaker 9: connects them, that makes it such that they can do
[52:24] Speaker 9: something I wouldn't say superhuman, but extremely difficult for a
[52:28] Speaker 9: human being, and it has been happening for millennia. So
[52:31] Speaker 9: how would you explain that.
[52:32] Speaker 1: Well, I think there's there's two easy ways to handle
[52:35] Speaker 1: this particular phenomenon. First, humans are already predisposed to have
[52:41] Speaker 1: a sense of parentage. This is something that's been talked
[52:46] Speaker 1: a lot. Sorry, we have like a biological sense of parentage,
[52:53] Speaker 1: meaning even from infancy, we have a desire to feel
[52:59] Speaker 1: like there is a parent or protector there. And I
[53:03] Speaker 1: think that people would assume that once you grow up
[53:06] Speaker 1: it just goes away, but it never does. Like if
[53:09] Speaker 1: you have a good relationship with your dad, he's always
[53:11] Speaker 1: your dad, If you have a good relationship with your mom,
[53:14] Speaker 1: it's always your mother. Like you never become co workers
[53:17] Speaker 1: or friends, they're always your parents. Right, we're because we're
[53:20] Speaker 1: built with this desire to have a parent and unfortunately,
[53:25] Speaker 1: you know, eventually our parents go away, but that feeling
[53:28] Speaker 1: doesn't go away. So what do we do We transpose
[53:31] Speaker 1: that feeling onto some sort of immaterial being. Now, some
[53:35] Speaker 1: people didn't like in the early days, they didn't do that.
[53:38] Speaker 1: In the early days, they just assumed that their parent
[53:40] Speaker 1: was still there. They just transitioned into a different phase
[53:43] Speaker 1: of life, and that's how they dealt with that particular
[53:45] Speaker 1: biological need. Nowadays, we don't do that. We don't believe
[53:49] Speaker 1: that our loved ones are still like are with us,
[53:52] Speaker 1: that we can go give them votive offerings, right, So
[53:57] Speaker 1: unfortunately that kind of gets pushed out to God. That
[54:01] Speaker 1: being said, there is a second thing, like, so you
[54:04] Speaker 1: brought up the idea that like, sometimes people can do
[54:07] Speaker 1: things that like with theoretically with God, that they couldn't
[54:11] Speaker 1: do otherwise. But to me, I see this as like
[54:15] Speaker 1: a placebo effect. So for example, there's a really good
[54:19] Speaker 1: study I forget who did it. I can track it
[54:23] Speaker 1: down if you want a copy of it. There's a
[54:24] Speaker 1: really good study that was done a while ago on bodybuilders,
[54:30] Speaker 1: or we'll call the athletes. And what they did is
[54:33] Speaker 1: they took one group of athletes and they told them
[54:35] Speaker 1: that they were going to get performance enhancing medications, and
[54:39] Speaker 1: then they had a control group that they didn't tell anything.
[54:43] Speaker 1: They just sent them to the gym. And then they
[54:46] Speaker 1: had a third group where they told them that they
[54:48] Speaker 1: were going to get performance enhancing medications and then they
[54:51] Speaker 1: actually got them. So one group were told they were
[54:54] Speaker 1: going to get drugs, they got drugs. Second group they
[54:57] Speaker 1: were told they were going to get drugs, they didn't
[54:58] Speaker 1: get drugs. Control group didn't get anything, weren't told anything.
[55:03] Speaker 1: Going into the study, they assumed that the second group,
[55:06] Speaker 1: the second group, they were told they were going to
[55:08] Speaker 1: get peds, but they wouldn't get peds. They thought that
[55:11] Speaker 1: that group would perform slightly better than the first group,
[55:16] Speaker 1: the control group. What happened was they performed only slightly
[55:20] Speaker 1: worse than the group actually getting peds. Because the placebo
[55:25] Speaker 1: effect is that good. The placebo effect is so good
[55:28] Speaker 1: it can cause normal people to lift a lot more
[55:31] Speaker 1: weight than they normally would and this has been studied
[55:34] Speaker 1: to do all kinds of things. So the placebo effect
[55:37] Speaker 1: can cause you to do all kinds of things that
[55:39] Speaker 1: you wouldn't think you normally could do. And you can
[55:42] Speaker 1: just transpose that to God. When you have a God
[55:44] Speaker 1: that you think is empowering you to do things that
[55:46] Speaker 1: you couldn't do, it's just a placebo effect. Mm.
[55:52] Speaker 2: Yeah, I see what you mean. So once again, like
[55:56] Speaker 2: you say, all these physically, the gold experience is self
[55:59] Speaker 2: in new once.
[56:00] Speaker 1: Again, right, Yeah, I think that you know what, I've
[56:03] Speaker 1: never said that before but I think that's the right
[56:06] Speaker 1: way to say. I think the spiritual experience is self induced.
[56:10] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I see what you mean there is I
[56:13] Speaker 2: have a few things to say. So that's actually the
[56:18] Speaker 2: plassible thing, and the self induction, which I believe to
[56:20] Speaker 2: me at least, is the most concerning aspect of my
[56:23] Speaker 2: metaphysical inquiry. There is this huge debate in Christianity, like,
[56:29] Speaker 2: let's say, from paganism to Christianity. In a sense, we
[56:32] Speaker 2: can say I used to be a pagan before, meaning
[56:35] Speaker 2: I hanged out with shamans in therein forest. I took
[56:38] Speaker 2: a whole bunch of very strong psychedelics. I also meditated
[56:41] Speaker 2: a lot, and I did some yoga. I did a
[56:44] Speaker 2: whole bunch of things. Right, So when you when you
[56:47] Speaker 2: do pagany paganism, we can put it like that, it's
[56:50] Speaker 2: an umbrella term. You get to the realization, the spiritual
[56:54] Speaker 2: realization that you are God. You experience yourself like that.
[56:57] Speaker 2: Now God is not a guy with a bid in
[56:59] Speaker 2: the sky.
[57:01] Speaker 9: It's a state of being, you know, it's a state
[57:03] Speaker 9: of peace, and you perceive yourself like that. While if
[57:09] Speaker 9: you move to Christianity, Christians say, and many Pagans who
[57:12] Speaker 9: converk say it is that's a delusion. That's literally a
[57:15] Speaker 9: Satanic delusion. And Satan wants to believe that you're God,
[57:18] Speaker 9: that's what he believes. But that's a lie. And what
[57:21] Speaker 9: you see is a false light if you meditate. So
[57:23] Speaker 9: all Buddhist monks and all your is they are seeing
[57:25] Speaker 9: a false light according to Christians, while God instead is
[57:29] Speaker 9: this external entity who wants things from you and tells
[57:33] Speaker 9: you to do stuff and has expectations and as agency
[57:37] Speaker 9: is the mix of Greek and jee God. We know
[57:42] Speaker 9: from the Bible and from Greek philosophy that we got
[57:44] Speaker 9: into Christianity, and.
[57:46] Speaker 2: I find it crazy how like both things can coexist.
[57:50] Speaker 2: So what you say basically is is what Christians may
[57:54] Speaker 2: call a pagan heresy. We can say the Satanic delusion,
[57:57] Speaker 2: the fact that you can believe that you are God essentially,
[58:01] Speaker 2: And I've been exploring it for a while and I'm
[58:04] Speaker 2: not going anywhere with this. I'm just saying that's where
[58:07] Speaker 2: that's what they sounds so far, that's what the camps
[58:09] Speaker 2: are saying about it.
[58:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, and so this brings up a really good point,
[58:13] Speaker 1: and we've talked about this quite a bit, which is
[58:15] Speaker 1: that so when we have spiritual phenomenon, because we remember Hindus
[58:19] Speaker 1: have them, Islamic people have them, and like all the
[58:23] Speaker 1: other religions, they all have these spiritual experiences. So from
[58:27] Speaker 1: an outsider point of view, you have to do one
[58:29] Speaker 1: of two things, like you can do like what you're suggesting,
[58:32] Speaker 1: which is where if you're a Christian, then you would
[58:35] Speaker 1: just say, well, my God is the real God and
[58:38] Speaker 1: these are manifestations, say by demons or something. Right, yeah, exactly,
[58:43] Speaker 1: but how how is but if you're at islaw make
[58:46] Speaker 1: you would say no, no, no, Allah is the only
[58:50] Speaker 1: true God and Muhammad is the final prophet. And all
[58:54] Speaker 1: these people that are led astray by Christianity, they in
[58:59] Speaker 1: fact are being deceived by jin' They're being kept from
[59:03] Speaker 1: knowing about the true prophet. Right. And so if we
[59:07] Speaker 1: have two completing claims, right, Christian says my God is real,
[59:10] Speaker 1: you're deceived by bad spirits. Islam says my God is real,
[59:14] Speaker 1: they're deceived by bad spirits. Now we have to figure
[59:17] Speaker 1: out okay, well only one of those two things could
[59:19] Speaker 1: be true. Right?
[59:19] Speaker 2: Well, of course, yea, who's bousheeting here?
[59:21] Speaker 1: Right? Yeah? Right, So that's where that's I think that's
[59:28] Speaker 1: where when we get to like personal experiences for God,
[59:30] Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons why they always fall short,
[59:32] Speaker 1: because every personal experience that you are talking about, I
[59:36] Speaker 1: can make an equally valid claim for another religion. And
[59:40] Speaker 1: so that's why I think it's important to examine the
[59:42] Speaker 1: claims of the religion rather than examining personal experience and
[59:47] Speaker 1: the reason why. And I've believe this for a long time,
[59:49] Speaker 1: even when I was a Christian. I used to get
[59:51] Speaker 1: online back in the olden days when you had to
[59:54] Speaker 1: go to like a chat forum, and I would talk
[59:56] Speaker 1: to people of other faiths and find out how you
[59:59] Speaker 1: got into that fai and why you believe it. And
[1:00:01] Speaker 1: what I found out very quickly was that my personal experience,
[1:00:05] Speaker 1: the things that I thought were unique that made my
[1:00:07] Speaker 1: religion truth, turned out everyone already had them in their
[1:00:09] Speaker 1: own religion. And then I really early on in my
[1:00:12] Speaker 1: Christian journey, was like, oh, I guess personal experience isn't great.
[1:00:15] Speaker 1: We need to actually look at like the hard evidence.
[1:00:18] Speaker 1: So when I look at the hard evidence for Christianity,
[1:00:21] Speaker 1: I see a lot of problems, and I suspect that
[1:00:23] Speaker 1: you do too, which is why you said you're struggling
[1:00:26] Speaker 1: to hold on right. So when you look at like
[1:00:31] Speaker 1: something as simple as the God concept in Christianity, to me,
[1:00:34] Speaker 1: the God concept falls apart because the Trinity is an
[1:00:38] Speaker 1: incoherent mess. So, for example, like it says in the
[1:00:44] Speaker 1: Book of Colossians, if I remember correctly, it should be
[1:00:48] Speaker 1: like Colossians chapter beginning of chapter two says that all
[1:00:52] Speaker 1: the fullness of God was in Jesus. He's one hundred
[1:00:58] Speaker 1: percent God, but he's also one hundred percent man. This
[1:01:03] Speaker 1: type of a claim seems completely nonsensical to me, because
[1:01:08] Speaker 1: if you're one hundred percent God, that means you have
[1:01:10] Speaker 1: all the attributes of God. You can't be lacking any
[1:01:14] Speaker 1: attribute of the God if you're one hundred percent that God.
[1:01:18] Speaker 1: But then when we look at Jesus and he' he
[1:01:20] Speaker 1: lacks all kinds of the attributes. He's not all knowing,
[1:01:23] Speaker 1: he's not all powerful. In Mark chapter six, he can't
[1:01:26] Speaker 1: perform miracles because people didn't have enough faith. In the
[1:01:29] Speaker 1: ol of It discourse, he says he doesn't even know
[1:01:31] Speaker 1: the time or the hour of his second coming. He's
[1:01:35] Speaker 1: certainly not omnipresent. He's not everywhere as God says he
[1:01:38] Speaker 1: is in the Book of Jeremiah. And so at that
[1:01:41] Speaker 1: point you would just have to admit, Okay, well, he
[1:01:43] Speaker 1: can't be identical to God.
[1:01:46] Speaker 9: So if he is God, he's very ambiguous with what
[1:01:49] Speaker 9: your body can do and what he cannot, right, I
[1:01:50] Speaker 9: call him the revolving.
[1:01:52] Speaker 1: Door, right exactly. So if he's if he's not identical
[1:01:55] Speaker 1: identical to God, that means he's only partially God, or
[1:02:00] Speaker 1: it means that God is a category, not an identity.
[1:02:04] Speaker 1: But if God is a category and Jesus is in
[1:02:06] Speaker 1: the category of God, that just means there's two Gods.
[1:02:09] Speaker 1: It doesn't mean the Trinity falls apart.
[1:02:13] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I get what you mean. I get what
[1:02:14] Speaker 2: you mean. The thing, the thing, I honestly haven't even
[1:02:16] Speaker 2: thought about it much Like, yeah, I heard stuff about it,
[1:02:18] Speaker 2: I heard scholars debated. I asked the priest about in
[1:02:21] Speaker 2: the song the way I could, like, let's say, I
[1:02:25] Speaker 2: easily quote unquote explain it is. God is just.
[1:02:28] Speaker 9: Badsheet crazy, and that's stuff that don't make any sense
[1:02:31] Speaker 9: to human reason, right, So it doesn't it doesn't have
[1:02:34] Speaker 9: to make sense.
[1:02:35] Speaker 2: God doesn't owe us to make any sense. So I'm
[1:02:38] Speaker 2: fine with it. That's that's what bothers me the least
[1:02:41] Speaker 2: about Christianity.
[1:02:43] Speaker 1: Okay, so I used I used to say that kind
[1:02:46] Speaker 1: of thing when I was a Christian as well as
[1:02:47] Speaker 1: you say, listen, some of it's a mystery, right. But
[1:02:50] Speaker 1: when you get to that point, when you get to
[1:02:52] Speaker 1: the part about your religion that is logically unsound and
[1:02:57] Speaker 1: you're willing to accept an ill lie idea, well then
[1:03:01] Speaker 1: you just had to come to the table and say, well,
[1:03:03] Speaker 1: why do I accept the unlogical idea of Christianity but
[1:03:06] Speaker 1: I don't accept the unlogical idea of anything else? Right,
[1:03:09] Speaker 1: then we have to go back to the table and
[1:03:11] Speaker 1: you're left again only with personal experience. But personal experience,
[1:03:15] Speaker 1: as we've already discussed, doesn't really get you anywhere. So
[1:03:19] Speaker 1: like when when I'm examining the religions, I'm looking to
[1:03:23] Speaker 1: see if they're coherent, right, And so for example, to me,
[1:03:27] Speaker 1: Christianity falls apart also because like it's based on the
[1:03:31] Speaker 1: Old Testament, and the Old Testament gave all these predictions
[1:03:34] Speaker 1: for what the Messiah was going to do and then
[1:03:36] Speaker 1: Jesus didn't do any of them, right, So like even
[1:03:39] Speaker 1: if you say, listen, the Trinity is a mystery, we
[1:03:41] Speaker 1: can't understand it. Cool, that's one problem. We can put
[1:03:44] Speaker 1: it on the shelf for later. Second problem, the god
[1:03:48] Speaker 1: of the book said that the Messiah is going to
[1:03:49] Speaker 1: do a bunch of stuff, and then Jesus didn't do
[1:03:51] Speaker 1: any of it. And the prophecies that are attributed to him,
[1:03:54] Speaker 1: half of them aren't even prophecies, they're random quotations from
[1:03:57] Speaker 1: the Psalms. So, like, what do we do with this
[1:04:00] Speaker 1: Messiah that didn't fill in?
[1:04:01] Speaker 2: Having intellectual dishonesty going on there of course.
[1:04:05] Speaker 1: Right, So like we can look at the claims of
[1:04:08] Speaker 1: Christianity one by one and recognize that they don't work.
[1:04:12] Speaker 1: They're not workable claims. So if you're really attached to
[1:04:17] Speaker 1: the to the God concept because of your personal experience,
[1:04:21] Speaker 1: I think it's more probable, even in your worldview, not mine.
[1:04:24] Speaker 1: I think it's more probable in your worldview that there
[1:04:27] Speaker 1: could be a god, just not the Christian God. The
[1:04:29] Speaker 1: Christian God doesn't make any sense. The book is for
[1:04:31] Speaker 1: all lies.
[1:04:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, I see what you mean. I see what you
[1:04:35] Speaker 2: mean to me.
[1:04:35] Speaker 9: I see it as a game of probabilities in a sense,
[1:04:38] Speaker 9: because you cannot go and check every single religion and
[1:04:41] Speaker 9: verify every single claim. Also because every claim should be
[1:04:44] Speaker 9: verified theoretically by reading the books and seeing what the
[1:04:47] Speaker 9: stage is saying on whoever, and then also personally do
[1:04:50] Speaker 9: it right. So you would have to become a very
[1:04:52] Speaker 9: devout Muslim and a Sufi master, and then also a
[1:04:56] Speaker 9: very talented Yogi and so on, and Soffold can see
[1:04:58] Speaker 9: who's right. What I'm concerned with is finding what is
[1:05:02] Speaker 9: true inside of Christianity, because I get the point that
[1:05:05] Speaker 9: there is a lot of fluff going on. There are
[1:05:07] Speaker 9: a lot of things that are just very fugazzi. But
[1:05:12] Speaker 9: I also suspected there must be something through, something right
[1:05:14] Speaker 9: about it. Otherwise we wouldn't have my personal experiences and
[1:05:19] Speaker 9: the personal experiences of many people that I know, Like,
[1:05:22] Speaker 9: for example, you were a former evangelical, right, yeah, yeah, okay,
[1:05:27] Speaker 9: So I ended up meeting some evangelicals too here in
[1:05:30] Speaker 9: Italy because I got curious, right, Like, I hang out
[1:05:32] Speaker 9: with Orthodox people and I go to the divine lituzy,
[1:05:34] Speaker 9: I hang out with evangelicals and I go to the
[1:05:37] Speaker 9: cults and the things they do. And so I met
[1:05:39] Speaker 9: this man in his sixties who has a small church here,
[1:05:44] Speaker 9: and he told me how twenty years ago his life
[1:05:47] Speaker 9: was a complete mess. His girlfriend didnt lover for real.
[1:05:51] Speaker 9: In his job wasn't satisfying. He was depressed.
[1:05:54] Speaker 2: It was really depressed, thinking about suicide sometimes. And then
[1:05:57] Speaker 2: at some point and there was no.
[1:05:58] Speaker 9: Solution, like the psychiatrist told, you're actually doing fine, like
[1:06:01] Speaker 9: won't think about it. And then at some point speaking
[1:06:04] Speaker 9: to a friend, like a friend of his what they
[1:06:06] Speaker 9: called an encounter with Jesus, and he told him about it.
[1:06:10] Speaker 9: And so this guy also starts praying and he has
[1:06:12] Speaker 9: an encounter with Jesus. That's how he describes it, right,
[1:06:15] Speaker 9: and he gets spirit filled. That's the expression you're also
[1:06:18] Speaker 9: use in Americai presumed, and so in fact, having all
[1:06:21] Speaker 9: these sorts of magical experiences where he prays a lot
[1:06:25] Speaker 9: and then he feels the strong energy is moving through him,
[1:06:28] Speaker 9: and then he makes money out of nowhere, and then
[1:06:31] Speaker 9: he goes to the hospital and prays for someone and
[1:06:33] Speaker 9: that person heals. And then shortly after well, he starts
[1:06:36] Speaker 9: studying the Bible and leaves biblically and then he finds
[1:06:41] Speaker 9: his wife later on and now they have three children,
[1:06:44] Speaker 9: marriage for twenty years. Like his life gets together very
[1:06:47] Speaker 9: very quickly.
[1:06:48] Speaker 1: But now we're back to the empty well of personal experience,
[1:06:51] Speaker 1: and I, you know, Muslim would give you the exact
[1:06:54] Speaker 1: same personal experience.
[1:06:55] Speaker 4: You know.
[1:06:56] Speaker 1: I had a friend who converted from Christianity to Islam
[1:07:00] Speaker 1: because when he was an alcoholic Christianity, he couldn't get
[1:07:03] Speaker 1: rid of it. He said, when he started reading the
[1:07:05] Speaker 1: Koran and praying to Allah, he found that he was
[1:07:08] Speaker 1: able to overcome his addiction and realized that the true God,
[1:07:12] Speaker 1: you know, was the God of Islam. Right, So, like,
[1:07:16] Speaker 1: I don't know. Again, these personal experiences to me aren't
[1:07:20] Speaker 1: proof of anything.
[1:07:22] Speaker 2: Oh that's insane. That's who insane.
[1:07:25] Speaker 1: Because you can hear them in every religion. And keep
[1:07:28] Speaker 1: in mind, I do you know, I run the live
[1:07:31] Speaker 1: stream and I talk to people from other religions and
[1:07:34] Speaker 1: they'll say the same thing. Well, I had this personal experience.
[1:07:37] Speaker 1: I'm like, that's great, so does everybody else. Right, That's
[1:07:40] Speaker 1: why they're just not meaningful. Because if I accept your
[1:07:43] Speaker 1: friend's personal experience, and then your personal experience is evidence
[1:07:46] Speaker 1: of the God being true, I would also have to
[1:07:49] Speaker 1: accept the personal experience of Like I had a friend
[1:07:51] Speaker 1: that I used to work with, probably fifteen years ago. Now.
[1:07:54] Speaker 1: He was Hindu, and he was visited personally by two
[1:07:56] Speaker 1: of the Hindu gods, and so like, I would have
[1:07:59] Speaker 1: to assume that all of these personal experiences were valid.
[1:08:02] Speaker 1: And to me, I think, if I have to choose
[1:08:05] Speaker 1: between all of them being true or none of them
[1:08:08] Speaker 1: being true, the one that makes most senses that none
[1:08:09] Speaker 1: of them are true.
[1:08:11] Speaker 2: M I see, I see you used to be a Pentecostal.
[1:08:15] Speaker 1: Right, No, no, so I was never a Pentecostal. I
[1:08:18] Speaker 1: did go for a long time to a charismatic church
[1:08:21] Speaker 1: that did like the speaking in tongues and the prophesying
[1:08:23] Speaker 1: and things like that, but they weren't Pentecostal. They didn't
[1:08:26] Speaker 1: have Pentecostal belief systems. They just happened to believe in
[1:08:30] Speaker 1: the charismatic y. Well. They they were more in line
[1:08:35] Speaker 1: with the charismatic movement Pentecostal. Some of the Pentecostal beliefs
[1:08:39] Speaker 1: are a little bit different. That being said, I personally internally,
[1:08:44] Speaker 1: I don't think I ever identified as much with like
[1:08:48] Speaker 1: the gifts of the Spirit type of worship. That just
[1:08:53] Speaker 1: wasn't my personality type. But I loved the people and
[1:08:57] Speaker 1: I loved the pastor, and so I went there anyways
[1:08:59] Speaker 1: because the people were amazing. I was willing to you know,
[1:09:03] Speaker 1: if it was up to me, I would have went
[1:09:04] Speaker 1: to a boring church, like a Lutheran church.
[1:09:07] Speaker 2: M I see what you mean. I see. So if
[1:09:09] Speaker 2: you ever had one of those hazy experience, has been
[1:09:12] Speaker 2: many charismatic people to a port.
[1:09:14] Speaker 1: I've seen them. I've seen people like literally somebody who
[1:09:17] Speaker 1: put hands on people and they're just doing this thing,
[1:09:21] Speaker 1: barking like dogs, laying on the ground. To me, it's
[1:09:23] Speaker 1: all nonsense, right, and so like if that, if Christianity
[1:09:28] Speaker 1: is powerful enough to throw you on the ground and
[1:09:30] Speaker 1: make you bark like a dog, but it's not powerful
[1:09:32] Speaker 1: enough to heal all the babies with bone cancer, then
[1:09:35] Speaker 1: it's useless.
[1:09:36] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I see what you mean. I see what
[1:09:39] Speaker 2: you mean. So by listening to your life and this
[1:09:42] Speaker 2: came to my mind, of course, then there is going
[1:09:44] Speaker 2: to be a little person. And so if you don't
[1:09:45] Speaker 2: want to go there, of course we don't seen videos
[1:09:48] Speaker 2: of go ahead.
[1:09:50] Speaker 1: I think the I think that though this will probably
[1:09:53] Speaker 1: be the last story. I got to move on to
[1:09:55] Speaker 1: the next guest and trying not to get backed up
[1:09:58] Speaker 1: on my supertest either. But but yeah, I'd love to
[1:10:00] Speaker 1: hear the story surgery. You've been pleasant, You've been really
[1:10:02] Speaker 1: pleasant to talk to. Yeah.
[1:10:05] Speaker 2: Can I say the last thing?
[1:10:06] Speaker 1: Or yeah? Go ahead? Oh yeah.
[1:10:08] Speaker 2: So I've seen these videos of this, this preacher who
[1:10:12] Speaker 2: at some point does a deliverance on a child who
[1:10:14] Speaker 2: is autistic and doesn't speak, and so then the child
[1:10:17] Speaker 2: starts speaking right.
[1:10:18] Speaker 1: After Katherine Kirk.
[1:10:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, Katherine Kirk exactly, Yeah, exactly. Is that is that
[1:10:24] Speaker 2: stage or like what happens in those cases?
[1:10:26] Speaker 8: Yeah.
[1:10:26] Speaker 1: Actually, if you watch enough of Katherine Kirk's videos, what
[1:10:29] Speaker 1: you notice is you'll see the same people coming up
[1:10:32] Speaker 1: in her services to be healed, having different diseases. Like
[1:10:35] Speaker 1: you'll see a woman that was there six months ago
[1:10:37] Speaker 1: that got healed of something, and then she'll be back
[1:10:40] Speaker 1: six months later with a different thing. She's just hiring people,
[1:10:44] Speaker 1: I see.
[1:10:45] Speaker 3: I see.
[1:10:45] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's said. Then that I said, it's unfortunately there's
[1:10:48] Speaker 1: a lot of it. Though I knew this is one
[1:10:51] Speaker 1: of the reasons. This is one of the reasons why
[1:10:53] Speaker 1: I stopped going to a particular church once they kept
[1:10:57] Speaker 1: having people come in that had supposed healing men, and
[1:11:01] Speaker 1: every time they brought somebody in they were clearly they're
[1:11:04] Speaker 1: Charlatan's uh there was one guy that there's a famous
[1:11:08] Speaker 1: faith healer trick that if you ever want to spot
[1:11:11] Speaker 1: a fake versus you know, well they're all fake to me,
[1:11:13] Speaker 1: but a truly fake faith healer. If somebody comes to
[1:11:17] Speaker 1: your church and they say, find me someone that has
[1:11:20] Speaker 1: like they're like one leg is longer than the other,
[1:11:25] Speaker 1: they will do this dumb trick whether they sit them
[1:11:27] Speaker 1: down on a chair and they'll pull the heel of
[1:11:29] Speaker 1: the shoe off one leg and stretch the leg to
[1:11:32] Speaker 1: be longer the same length of the other one, and
[1:11:35] Speaker 1: then they're healed magically. Right, this is like, this is
[1:11:39] Speaker 1: the uh you know, go to Charlatan faith healing trick.
[1:11:43] Speaker 1: And unfortunately, I've seen it dozens of time. I can't
[1:11:46] Speaker 1: tell you how many times I've seen supposed faith healers
[1:11:48] Speaker 1: do these bs parlor tricks.
[1:11:52] Speaker 2: I see, I see, Yeah, thank you very much. Yeah,
[1:11:54] Speaker 2: I've seen some. But it's it's difficult to have the
[1:11:56] Speaker 2: framework efference to see how tool these experiences are. And
[1:11:59] Speaker 2: that's let's interesting because for example, for Evangelicals you have
[1:12:03] Speaker 2: a lot of miracles and healing and these kind of things.
[1:12:06] Speaker 2: Went for Catholics and Orthodox that doesn't exist. Well, even
[1:12:10] Speaker 2: they say, that's that's deception, right, what evangelicals go to.
[1:12:13] Speaker 2: So it can get pretty confusing.
[1:12:14] Speaker 1: Also, I don't know if that is necessarily the case.
[1:12:18] Speaker 1: So I'll give you an example. And sorry, I said
[1:12:20] Speaker 1: that was going to be last thing we talked about,
[1:12:21] Speaker 1: but I gotta say, I gotta say one other things.
[1:12:23] Speaker 1: So I went to a Catholic school growing up. I
[1:12:25] Speaker 1: had twelve years of Catholic school, and we used to
[1:12:28] Speaker 1: visit a shrine. There's a shrine in my state and
[1:12:31] Speaker 1: one of the selling points. They had a big walking
[1:12:35] Speaker 1: path set up with shrines, and they even have a
[1:12:38] Speaker 1: couple of caves that are full of candles that people
[1:12:41] Speaker 1: would go and pray to. And they had one chapel
[1:12:44] Speaker 1: near the end of the walking path that was full
[1:12:48] Speaker 1: of crutches and walkers and it was famous. People would
[1:12:53] Speaker 1: go here and pray for healing and they would get healing.
[1:12:56] Speaker 1: So I do think that the Catholics, they do have
[1:13:00] Speaker 1: of pockets that known for healing, but it's just not
[1:13:04] Speaker 1: during the church service. They don't try to do that
[1:13:06] Speaker 1: stuff during the church service. That's more of something that
[1:13:09] Speaker 1: happens in your own personal space than during the service,
[1:13:12] Speaker 1: if that makes sense.
[1:13:14] Speaker 2: Oh no, absolutely, like I've been to when I was
[1:13:16] Speaker 2: a child, When I was like twelve, I went in
[1:13:17] Speaker 2: pilgrimage to Madugoria, which is a place in Croatia right
[1:13:20] Speaker 2: nearby where supposedly there are seers. We can see the
[1:13:25] Speaker 2: Holy region and they can get messages and stuff like that.
[1:13:28] Speaker 2: So we have planned to places like that in Europe.
[1:13:30] Speaker 2: What's the name of your of your sanctuary there where.
[1:13:31] Speaker 1: You are, I'll tell you what it is. Give me
[1:13:33] Speaker 1: a second. Yeah, it's in Ohio. I now, I got
[1:13:50] Speaker 1: to get on the map because I think I know
[1:13:52] Speaker 1: where it's at, but I don't really recall. I think
[1:13:57] Speaker 1: it's the Sorrowful Mother Shrine. And let me make sure
[1:14:01] Speaker 1: I got the right one. Yeah, it's the Sorrowful Mother Shrine.
[1:14:08] Speaker 1: And they've got chapels, they've got grotto's. People make pilgrimages
[1:14:13] Speaker 1: to go there and visit. It's in It's in Bellevue, Ohio,
[1:14:18] Speaker 1: and it's it's it's a it's a beautiful place. Like listen,
[1:14:21] Speaker 1: if you're if you're a Catholic and you're living in
[1:14:23] Speaker 1: the state of Ohio and you want to find like
[1:14:26] Speaker 1: a really cool place to go pray and spend a
[1:14:28] Speaker 1: day at like this is the place. It's really cool.
[1:14:31] Speaker 1: Like I said, there's the cave with candles. People come
[1:14:34] Speaker 1: and pray at the cave, and there's like a whole
[1:14:37] Speaker 1: outdoor walking path. It's just it's a cool place. That
[1:14:40] Speaker 1: being said. As an atheist, I don't really don't really
[1:14:43] Speaker 1: care anymore. But if you're a believer, it's a cool place.
[1:14:48] Speaker 1: Free advertisement.
[1:14:50] Speaker 2: We have an abundance of death in Italy and in
[1:14:53] Speaker 2: Europe of course. Right, all right, thank you very much,
[1:14:56] Speaker 2: justin It was a pleasure of speaking to you.
[1:14:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, best of look on the journey Surgeo. We're talking
[1:15:00] Speaker 1: to you.
[1:15:01] Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
[1:15:01] Speaker 1: Cheers ye, well, w to Sergio. I love it when
[1:15:09] Speaker 1: we get people up here and they want to have
[1:15:10] Speaker 1: like good conversations. I know it can get boring for
[1:15:14] Speaker 1: the audience, but I love it, so thank you for
[1:15:16] Speaker 1: putting up with me, uh for having good conversations. Let
[1:15:20] Speaker 1: me grab a couple of super chests. We'll get our
[1:15:22] Speaker 1: next guest and here design says Okay, okay, okay, but
[1:15:24] Speaker 1: why do religious people talk like they're recruiting henchmen for
[1:15:27] Speaker 1: their favorite bond villain? Actually they do one thing I'll
[1:15:32] Speaker 1: never understand design is why religious people want to issue
[1:15:38] Speaker 1: threats all the time. That's the weird thing, Like they
[1:15:41] Speaker 1: can't have an honest discussion, they have to threaten you
[1:15:43] Speaker 1: with hell. Slightly, Agnostic says, appreciating you for now. Displaying questions, premises,
[1:15:49] Speaker 1: and conclusions on the screen keeps things focused so slightly.
[1:15:52] Speaker 1: You know what, I never thought about it until I
[1:15:55] Speaker 1: saw Ian doing it. I used to draw pictures on
[1:15:57] Speaker 1: a whiteboard a long time ago, and that was fun.
[1:15:59] Speaker 1: I used to put bullet points on the white board
[1:16:02] Speaker 1: a long time ago, but it got annoying because they
[1:16:04] Speaker 1: kept having to break out the white board and it
[1:16:05] Speaker 1: was hard to navigate it on the screen. And then
[1:16:08] Speaker 1: I saw Ian doing notepad. I'm like, oh fuck, noe.
[1:16:10] Speaker 1: Pad's way better than the whiteboard. So if I went
[1:16:13] Speaker 1: back to it, and it's helpful because the guests a
[1:16:16] Speaker 1: lot of times don't listen to my questions, Like I
[1:16:20] Speaker 1: asked him a question and their way out on left field,
[1:16:22] Speaker 1: like what the fuck? That doesn't answer my question at all? Right,
[1:16:25] Speaker 1: So I think having the notepad keeps some focus, like listen,
[1:16:29] Speaker 1: this is the question you're asking. Pay attention, you know,
[1:16:32] Speaker 1: Kyle says, Wow, Lake NIO's disaster. So the entire village
[1:16:36] Speaker 1: were evil people seventeen forty six three hundred, three thousand,
[1:16:40] Speaker 1: five hundred livestock, I guess the entire village was fully
[1:16:42] Speaker 1: vivo people. That's the problem you have with natural disasters, right,
[1:16:46] Speaker 1: because if you do believe that they're punishments, then you
[1:16:49] Speaker 1: have to believe that God is more than willing to
[1:16:52] Speaker 1: punish the innocent alongside of the guilty, which is crazy.
[1:16:57] Speaker 1: And Saint Brusa's shout out to Emperor Julian. Emperor Julian
[1:17:01] Speaker 1: was a baddie, says last pagan Emperor of Rome. He
[1:17:03] Speaker 1: even had plans to rebuild a third temple just to
[1:17:06] Speaker 1: piss off Christians rest in power king. He did, he
[1:17:10] Speaker 1: apportioned the money for it, he already had the thing commissioned,
[1:17:13] Speaker 1: and unfortunately he had an untimely death. So yeah, but
[1:17:17] Speaker 1: he was cool. If you read the writings of Emperor Julian,
[1:17:21] Speaker 1: read a Julian against the Galileans, it's an amazing discourse
[1:17:26] Speaker 1: on the folly of early Christianity. Born to offenses. I
[1:17:30] Speaker 1: have a question about Wiener tips. If God commanded men
[1:17:34] Speaker 1: to be circumcised, what about the women. Oh wait, they
[1:17:36] Speaker 1: don't count a million percent born to be offended. I've
[1:17:39] Speaker 1: had this conversation quite a few times, but it never
[1:17:41] Speaker 1: hurts to cover it, which is namely that remember the
[1:17:44] Speaker 1: covenant between God and his people was between God and man,
[1:17:49] Speaker 1: not women. It's disgusting. It's it's like women, you'll be
[1:17:54] Speaker 1: saved through childbirth as long as you pick the right man.
[1:17:58] Speaker 1: You know. That's the first Timothy Chapter two, Paul says,
[1:18:01] Speaker 1: so like it's the craziest thing that God just doesn't
[1:18:03] Speaker 1: care about women. Fafo says, Bro, these experiences are your
[1:18:06] Speaker 1: third eye. Try d MT by third eye, I hope
[1:18:10] Speaker 1: you mean like the gland that is excreting the chemicals
[1:18:13] Speaker 1: and not a real, real spirit spirit experience. Cameron, thank
[1:18:18] Speaker 1: you for the super Tess's sorry about the type of Justin.
[1:18:20] Speaker 1: Is there a religious way to get your guest to
[1:18:22] Speaker 1: answer yes no questions? By the way, I freaking love Thinker.
[1:18:26] Speaker 1: She is freaking bad ass tri facto. I agree. Actually
[1:18:31] Speaker 1: Thinker is amazing. There's no there's no way around it.
[1:18:34] Speaker 1: She's awesome. Is there a way to get your guests
[1:18:36] Speaker 1: to say yes or no? I've not found it yet.
[1:18:40] Speaker 1: I think the having the notepad open is gonna help though,
[1:18:42] Speaker 1: but we'll see Boogie. Thank you for the twenty dollars
[1:18:46] Speaker 1: super chat. That's huge, friend, and it says well done detectives
[1:18:49] Speaker 1: on finding that scumbag that insulted the child of Doug's
[1:18:52] Speaker 1: chief provat. If ever I prayed for, she bears, it
[1:18:56] Speaker 1: was hearing that dude say that word and cower when
[1:18:59] Speaker 1: you stood on ten toes praise Doug. Yeah, Buggie that
[1:19:02] Speaker 1: I still it's crazy that somebody had the balls to
[1:19:05] Speaker 1: say that just because they're getting cooked in a conversation,
[1:19:09] Speaker 1: and then when they get called out on it, equivocate
[1:19:12] Speaker 1: and be like and refuse to admit that they said it.
[1:19:15] Speaker 1: That's the craziest thing. Even wouldn't even admit that he
[1:19:18] Speaker 1: said it. He ran from it because he knew he
[1:19:19] Speaker 1: was an idiot. Meg says, So Adam and Eves's kids
[1:19:22] Speaker 1: married their sisters and brothers. Way too much incest going
[1:19:25] Speaker 1: on in this book. That's according to the story, Meg, yes,
[1:19:28] Speaker 1: which is weird that God later outlaws incest. Weird that
[1:19:33] Speaker 1: he would do that. Isn't that odd that an objectively
[1:19:35] Speaker 1: moral lawgiver would tell you to do it now but
[1:19:38] Speaker 1: not later, Oenix says, Hey, justin here with my new mic,
[1:19:40] Speaker 1: and I'd like to share a theory of mine on stream.
[1:19:43] Speaker 1: If that's okay, Oenix, Maybe we're trying to get opposition.
[1:19:46] Speaker 1: We need to get a good debate going. But if
[1:19:49] Speaker 1: we run out of guest certainly, Patch Grabbers says, don't
[1:19:52] Speaker 1: need a higher power, bring me a higher lover or
[1:19:55] Speaker 1: higher love. That's a good song. Actually bring me a
[1:19:57] Speaker 1: higher love. I'm going to grab five more super chats
[1:20:00] Speaker 1: will get our next guest in your nightman come and
[1:20:02] Speaker 1: says okay, okay, here's a perfect example. Proceeds to give
[1:20:05] Speaker 1: a non sense a collection. Yeah, that's actually the case.
[1:20:10] Speaker 1: The examples never do what they wanted to do. Erzmat
[1:20:14] Speaker 1: says lizard Man reference. I knew you're one of us.
[1:20:18] Speaker 1: And David Ike's out of his mind. I'll of all
[1:20:21] Speaker 1: the conspiracy theories. I'll never understand how lizard People was
[1:20:25] Speaker 1: a thing. Jonathan says, okay, so real, we have to
[1:20:29] Speaker 1: debate if it's real. We are rock solid people, Jonathan.
[1:20:34] Speaker 1: I don't know who we are, but yes, if God
[1:20:36] Speaker 1: is real, I would love to debate. So Jonathan, get
[1:20:40] Speaker 1: into the guest box and more than happy to debate you.
[1:20:43] Speaker 1: Silver surfer, thank you for the super hype. I really
[1:20:46] Speaker 1: appreciate that. And Tim says, if we are created, I
[1:20:49] Speaker 1: want my f and money back. I got dentures and
[1:20:52] Speaker 1: I wear glasses. Your God gives shark's great teeth, eagles
[1:20:56] Speaker 1: great eyes. What the fuck? That's actually a really good point.
[1:21:00] Speaker 1: It's almost like the animals were evolved to have those
[1:21:03] Speaker 1: features that help them to survive, not like they were
[1:21:05] Speaker 1: given by God. In fact, in Exodus chapter four, verse eleven,
[1:21:11] Speaker 1: I believe God literally says he's the one that makes
[1:21:14] Speaker 1: people blind and mute. And last one from our friend Erzman,
[1:21:17] Speaker 1: thank you so much. Friend says you looked at the
[1:21:19] Speaker 1: women's bum in lust earthquake time. Christians hate humanity, even
[1:21:26] Speaker 1: other Christians. How can you possibly love your fellow man
[1:21:29] Speaker 1: when you think they deserve hell fire from birth? Yeah,
[1:21:32] Speaker 1: that's the crazy thing. That was one of the I
[1:21:35] Speaker 1: would say the lightning rods for me as I was
[1:21:37] Speaker 1: deconstructing Christianity is realizing the absolute nonsense of hell. It's
[1:21:43] Speaker 1: just poppycock. All right, let me grab our next guest
[1:21:46] Speaker 1: from the xbox. We're gonna grab Chubby and my friend
[1:21:49] Speaker 1: Days at the same time. How are you doing days.
[1:21:53] Speaker 10: Hey, justin I just came up to let you know
[1:21:55] Speaker 10: there's like a censor. I don't know if you have
[1:21:57] Speaker 10: like an autosensor system on right now.
[1:22:00] Speaker 1: So when I when I first updated TikTok studio, it
[1:22:06] Speaker 1: didn't give me the option to turn it off. It
[1:22:08] Speaker 1: just after the update it says, hey, this is the
[1:22:10] Speaker 1: thing we're doing now. I was like, fuck, okay, okay,
[1:22:15] Speaker 1: so it's TikTok. I just wanted to make sure you
[1:22:16] Speaker 1: were aware.
[1:22:17] Speaker 10: It's like sometimes the right stuff and then sometimes it
[1:22:21] Speaker 10: seems very random in the middle of conversation.
[1:22:23] Speaker 1: So it's possible that there's a way to turn it off.
[1:22:25] Speaker 1: I don't know how to do it just yet, but
[1:22:28] Speaker 1: I do know this is it. This is just a
[1:22:31] Speaker 1: new thing that TikTok's doing. So I'll have to dig
[1:22:35] Speaker 1: into the software and see if there's a method for
[1:22:37] Speaker 1: turning it off. There probably is a method. I just
[1:22:39] Speaker 1: don't know what it is yet. Yeah, no worries.
[1:22:41] Speaker 6: I just wanted to make sure you were aware.
[1:22:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, very unintentional. So I was like, I want to
[1:22:47] Speaker 1: come up here and let them know I am aware.
[1:22:49] Speaker 1: And you know what the thing about TikTok. If you've
[1:22:53] Speaker 1: been around long enough. You know that they introduce these
[1:22:56] Speaker 1: new systems and they only partially work. They never work.
[1:22:58] Speaker 10: Well, yeah, no, TikTok's the worst, and they just it's
[1:23:02] Speaker 10: like beta, their beta, all of us, we're all in
[1:23:05] Speaker 10: the beta.
[1:23:05] Speaker 1: That's in yeah, all of tiktoking, endless beta mode.
[1:23:10] Speaker 6: Literally.
[1:23:11] Speaker 1: All right, well, I'm glad you know about it. Keep cooking.
[1:23:13] Speaker 1: I'm gonna drop back down. Thanks day, it's great to
[1:23:15] Speaker 1: hear from you, buddy, w daego days, good friend of
[1:23:19] Speaker 1: the channel. All right, let's get our next guest in here.
[1:23:22] Speaker 1: It looks like it's gonna be hit. I'm not sure
[1:23:25] Speaker 1: who exactly was in here next. I think it might
[1:23:29] Speaker 1: be M two. We'll find out if they connect, they
[1:23:35] Speaker 1: might not connect. See how you doing? M two? M two?
[1:23:43] Speaker 1: Your reception is really bad? Can you get to the
[1:23:45] Speaker 1: Wi fi? We can't hear a word you're saying. Buddy,
[1:24:01] Speaker 1: are you still with us?
[1:24:04] Speaker 3: Can you hear me now?
[1:24:05] Speaker 1: I can hear right now. Yeah, did you get connected
[1:24:08] Speaker 1: to the WiFi?
[1:24:10] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[1:24:11] Speaker 1: I did awesome, much better. Okay, I can hear you
[1:24:13] Speaker 1: right now. We're good to go. So M two, are
[1:24:16] Speaker 1: you at least eighteen? And do you believe in God.
[1:24:21] Speaker 3: Yes, sir, I'm over eighteen and I believe in God.
[1:24:24] Speaker 1: Okay? And last question, are you capable and willing of
[1:24:27] Speaker 1: answering yes or no questions?
[1:24:32] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[1:24:33] Speaker 1: Cool, it's good. So which God do you believe in?
[1:24:40] Speaker 6: Well?
[1:24:40] Speaker 3: I would tell you that the most high God is Jesus.
[1:24:45] Speaker 1: Great, you believe in the Christian God?
[1:24:46] Speaker 3: Then correct?
[1:24:49] Speaker 1: Awesome? What would be the most compelling evidence or argument
[1:24:53] Speaker 1: for the Christian God being real?
[1:25:00] Speaker 3: The most compelling in my opinion, Yeah, it's everything I
[1:25:07] Speaker 3: have to say to you is more so personal because
[1:25:10] Speaker 3: it's a it's I would have never ran into what
[1:25:13] Speaker 3: I my belief without my personal experiences. Well, but I
[1:25:18] Speaker 3: can also.
[1:25:20] Speaker 1: Sorry to interrupt, maybe I should have started with this.
[1:25:23] Speaker 1: Personal experience isn't meaningful to any of us because we
[1:25:25] Speaker 1: didn't experience it, and we can't test your personal experience,
[1:25:29] Speaker 1: and we have no way of knowing what you experienced
[1:25:31] Speaker 1: happened in real life or in your head. So I
[1:25:33] Speaker 1: don't think personal experience is a great start, right.
[1:25:37] Speaker 3: So if we can keep it scriptural, I guess is
[1:25:41] Speaker 3: that a good? Okay? So compelling evidence in scripture?
[1:25:50] Speaker 1: Sure? I mean, if you think scripture is good evidence
[1:25:53] Speaker 1: of your religion being true, then by all means, let's
[1:25:55] Speaker 1: jump into the scriptures.
[1:25:59] Speaker 3: Okay, I want you ask me a question.
[1:26:06] Speaker 1: You want me to ask you a question.
[1:26:09] Speaker 3: Yeah, what exactly doesn't make sense to you about scripture?
[1:26:13] Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question. Can you find me
[1:26:16] Speaker 1: a single prophecy about the Messiah that Jesus fulfilled in
[1:26:21] Speaker 1: the original context of the prophecy?
[1:26:26] Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I would tell you that prophecy is testimony,
[1:26:31] Speaker 3: and for example, being delivered from Egypt isn't literally the
[1:26:36] Speaker 3: Israelies being deliberate delivered from Egypt that one time. It's
[1:26:41] Speaker 3: a continuous thing. It's eternal.
[1:26:43] Speaker 1: Can you show me where the prophecy.
[1:26:45] Speaker 3: Is within scripture? I mean pointed out to you exactly
[1:26:56] Speaker 3: in scripture.
[1:26:57] Speaker 1: Where it is is prophecy.
[1:27:02] Speaker 3: What I'm saying to you is when the Bibles talks
[1:27:06] Speaker 3: about the Israelites being delivered from Egypt, it wasn't just
[1:27:11] Speaker 3: that one time. Jacob was also Israel. Israel was also
[1:27:15] Speaker 3: a nation.
[1:27:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm asking do you believe that the Exodus is prophetic?
[1:27:22] Speaker 3: Yes?
[1:27:22] Speaker 1: It is?
[1:27:23] Speaker 3: Why because it's also my testimony I'm being delivered from
[1:27:28] Speaker 3: Egypt this very day.
[1:27:29] Speaker 1: Well, try this again. I'm not asking for a metaphor.
[1:27:32] Speaker 1: I'm asking for a reason. Why would anyone believe that
[1:27:35] Speaker 1: the Exodus is a prophecy rather than a history.
[1:27:41] Speaker 3: Because the Bible is full of metaphor and prophecy.
[1:27:46] Speaker 1: The story is not a metaphor, Like if I said,
[1:27:48] Speaker 1: here's what happened in nineteen seventy five, it's not a metaphor.
[1:27:52] Speaker 1: It's a story from history.
[1:27:55] Speaker 3: Right it is. But at the same time, what I'm.
[1:27:59] Speaker 1: Trying to figure out it why would I look at
[1:28:01] Speaker 1: the Exodus and say this is a metaphor.
[1:28:07] Speaker 3: Because it's what's promised to all of his children. Israel
[1:28:12] Speaker 3: is the children the child of God.
[1:28:15] Speaker 1: So can you show me where there was a promise
[1:28:18] Speaker 1: to be freed from Egypt after the exile?
[1:28:22] Speaker 3: Yes, every time, there was everywhere Egypt. Egypt doesn't actually
[1:28:31] Speaker 3: mean the location of Egypt.
[1:28:34] Speaker 1: Oh, Egypt. So Egypt's not a country it is.
[1:28:38] Speaker 3: But metaphorically it means witchcraft.
[1:28:40] Speaker 1: Well, who gets to decide what the metaphorical meaning of
[1:28:43] Speaker 1: Egypt is? What if I think that the metaphorical meaning
[1:28:46] Speaker 1: of Egypt is pig's feet?
[1:28:49] Speaker 3: Okay, you would only think that without the operation of
[1:28:53] Speaker 3: the Holy Spirit.
[1:28:54] Speaker 1: No, no, I have the spirit of Doug. You don't
[1:28:58] Speaker 1: understand it. You're you're operating on a faulty spirit.
[1:29:02] Speaker 3: But the spirit of Doug didn't didn't inspire what's written
[1:29:05] Speaker 3: in that book. You okay, Well you know what it means.
[1:29:12] Speaker 1: I do. That's why I know that your captain.
[1:29:15] Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I would tell you that the Holy Spirit
[1:29:19] Speaker 3: that operates within me gave me a specific understanding.
[1:29:25] Speaker 1: I would just say you're wrong. The spirit that's in
[1:29:27] Speaker 1: me says you're wrong. Right.
[1:29:30] Speaker 3: That's the part that.
[1:29:31] Speaker 1: Other Christians would say you're wrong too. Right. So, like
[1:29:34] Speaker 1: appealing to like my personal feeling about the text must
[1:29:38] Speaker 1: be from the Holy Spirit isn't a great look because
[1:29:41] Speaker 1: like all, like all people in this religion believe that
[1:29:44] Speaker 1: the Holy spirit's leading them when they're reading the Bible,
[1:29:47] Speaker 1: but they come to wildly different interpretations, which means either
[1:29:50] Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit doesn't exist or the Holy Spirit is
[1:29:53] Speaker 1: the author of confusion.
[1:29:57] Speaker 3: No, but the Holy Spirit is personally to every one
[1:30:00] Speaker 3: of us.
[1:30:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's not lying to every one of you.
[1:30:04] Speaker 3: No, it's the same spirit but a different administration.
[1:30:07] Speaker 1: But the Bible says the Holy Spirit's going to lead
[1:30:09] Speaker 1: you in all truth, but it's actually leading the Christians
[1:30:12] Speaker 1: to disagreement.
[1:30:14] Speaker 3: No, it's you don't father every one of your children
[1:30:18] Speaker 3: the same way. This one might need this, this one
[1:30:21] Speaker 3: might need that.
[1:30:22] Speaker 1: No, but we're talking about truth, we're not talking about treatment.
[1:30:25] Speaker 1: Right when in John sixteen, Jesus says that this the
[1:30:29] Speaker 1: Spirit of truth is gonna come and he's going to
[1:30:31] Speaker 1: guide you into all truth. So if the Holy Spirit
[1:30:34] Speaker 1: guides you into truth, I'm not saying that the Holy
[1:30:37] Speaker 1: Spirit's going to treat everybody the same way. Heavens know.
[1:30:40] Speaker 1: What I'm saying is that when people consult the Holy Spirit,
[1:30:45] Speaker 1: he should be telling them or she rather should be
[1:30:48] Speaker 1: telling them the same truth.
[1:30:51] Speaker 3: Not necessarily see you're truth. No, that's not what i'm saying.
[1:30:57] Speaker 3: Raise don't do that. What I'm saying, and.
[1:31:03] Speaker 1: I need you to say focused for just one second.
[1:31:05] Speaker 1: You're telling me that the Holy Spirit is inside of
[1:31:07] Speaker 1: these Christians, but it won't tell the Christians all the
[1:31:11] Speaker 1: same truth. It'll tell you a truth and then it'll
[1:31:14] Speaker 1: tell another Christian a contradictory truth.
[1:31:18] Speaker 3: No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is
[1:31:23] Speaker 3: the Holy Spirit is your counselor's it's your confid it's
[1:31:27] Speaker 3: a person. Give me Jesus didn't go to every person
[1:31:32] Speaker 3: and tell them the same thing. He opened their eyes
[1:31:37] Speaker 3: to something.
[1:31:37] Speaker 1: But did he contradict himself, because that's what we're talking about, right. Well,
[1:31:42] Speaker 1: what I'm saying is if all the Christians have the
[1:31:45] Speaker 1: Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is telling Christians contradictory things,
[1:31:52] Speaker 1: then that means the Holy Spirit isn't doing its job.
[1:31:55] Speaker 3: What is it? What's contradictory that he is?
[1:31:58] Speaker 1: Because you believe that there's a prophecy in the Exodus,
[1:32:03] Speaker 1: other Christians would disagree to you. They're saying you're wrong.
[1:32:06] Speaker 1: You're saying they're wrong, Which means if they're consulting the
[1:32:09] Speaker 1: Holy Spirit and you're consulting the Holy Spirit and their
[1:32:13] Speaker 1: Holy Spirit says you're wrong, and your Holy Spirit says
[1:32:15] Speaker 1: that they're wrong, that means the Holy Spirit is giving
[1:32:18] Speaker 1: contradictory information or either you don't have the Holy Spirit,
[1:32:21] Speaker 1: or they don't have the Holy Spirit, or in reality,
[1:32:24] Speaker 1: nobody actually has the Holy Spirit.
[1:32:27] Speaker 3: Okay, I see your point. I would like to point
[1:32:31] Speaker 3: it out. I'd like to answer you by saying this,
[1:32:35] Speaker 3: If there's one tree that produces one fruit, what makes
[1:32:41] Speaker 3: that one fruit good or evil?
[1:32:45] Speaker 1: Well, in the example you're referring to when Jesus says
[1:32:48] Speaker 1: that the Father wants the tree to produce good fruit,
[1:32:51] Speaker 1: the good fruit is akin to good results. When the
[1:32:55] Speaker 1: good results he's looking for are people that are obedient
[1:32:57] Speaker 1: to God.
[1:33:00] Speaker 3: Mm. So what makes the fruit good or evil is
[1:33:03] Speaker 3: who gives it to you.
[1:33:05] Speaker 1: No, the fruit is referring to people's behavior. He's saying,
[1:33:12] Speaker 1: I want people who will produce good fruit. I want
[1:33:16] Speaker 1: people who will do the right thing right.
[1:33:20] Speaker 3: So we're talking about two different.
[1:33:22] Speaker 1: The fruit of the Holy Spirit is behavior.
[1:33:25] Speaker 3: Right, it is, it's character, it's characteristics. But the fruit,
[1:33:30] Speaker 3: the tree in the fruit I'm referring to is the
[1:33:31] Speaker 3: one in the garden, the tree of the knowledge of
[1:33:35] Speaker 3: good and evil. Because you're saying that their truth is
[1:33:38] Speaker 3: not the same as my truth. It is not the
[1:33:41] Speaker 3: same as his truth.
[1:33:42] Speaker 1: Said nothing about the tree in the garden.
[1:33:45] Speaker 3: No, that's what I was bringing up. I said, I
[1:33:47] Speaker 3: would answer you. I said, I'm talking about there in
[1:33:50] Speaker 3: the garden.
[1:33:51] Speaker 1: I think you're having trouble staying on topic, buddy.
[1:33:54] Speaker 3: No, no, no, no. You asked me a question, and
[1:33:57] Speaker 3: I said I would answer you by pointing this out.
[1:34:00] Speaker 1: We went from the Holy Spirit is telling Christians different
[1:34:04] Speaker 1: thing too good and bad. Fruit to the tree of
[1:34:08] Speaker 1: the garden. And keep in mind, I'm still on while
[1:34:11] Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit is contradicting himself. You're already two topics
[1:34:15] Speaker 1: the way you're on two new topics.
[1:34:17] Speaker 3: Now, I'm trying to point it out to you. Right,
[1:34:22] Speaker 3: So let's start from the top. Your question is your
[1:34:26] Speaker 3: question is the question was about truth? How can this
[1:34:31] Speaker 3: Holy Spirit give this person one truth and that person
[1:34:34] Speaker 3: another truth?
[1:34:35] Speaker 1: That's it? Yeah?
[1:34:37] Speaker 3: Right, So your truth isn't my truth? Like my experience
[1:34:42] Speaker 3: isn't your spirit your experience? There's a greater truth. Give me.
[1:34:46] Speaker 3: There's two sides of every story. There's always a witness given.
[1:34:54] Speaker 3: You get me. But every witness has a different perspective.
[1:34:57] Speaker 3: Like they might have been standing here, they might have
[1:34:59] Speaker 3: been there, but you can't tell them that they're lying.
[1:35:02] Speaker 3: That's their truth. That's what they witness to.
[1:35:05] Speaker 1: I'm asking about witnesses. What I'm saying is that you're
[1:35:10] Speaker 1: claiming the Holy Spirit tells you something. Other Christians are
[1:35:14] Speaker 1: claiming that the Holy Spirit tells them something. The things
[1:35:17] Speaker 1: that they're hearing contradict You're contradicting what other Christians are saying,
[1:35:22] Speaker 1: which means the Holy Spirit is giving contradictory information or
[1:35:27] Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit doesn't exist.
[1:35:30] Speaker 3: It's the same spirit but different administration.
[1:35:35] Speaker 1: No, No one's asking about the administration. If the Holy
[1:35:37] Speaker 1: Spirit tells me that the sky is blue, and the
[1:35:40] Speaker 1: Holy Spirit tells you that the sky is in fact
[1:35:43] Speaker 1: not blue, it's green, that's the Holy Spirit contradicting itself.
[1:35:47] Speaker 1: That's what we're talking about. And the Holy Spirit, as
[1:35:49] Speaker 1: far as we know, if it's leading people in all truth,
[1:35:52] Speaker 1: can't contradict itself.
[1:35:56] Speaker 3: But it's not contradicting itself. It's contradictioning.
[1:36:00] Speaker 1: We'll try this, We'll try this again, this last time.
[1:36:02] Speaker 1: I'm gonna do that. I'm not gonna waste ay more
[1:36:03] Speaker 1: time on this. If I told you that the Holy
[1:36:05] Speaker 1: Spirit told me that the sky is blue, and the
[1:36:09] Speaker 1: Holy Spirit told you that the sky is not blue,
[1:36:13] Speaker 1: what does that mean?
[1:36:15] Speaker 3: Well, the Holy Spirit knows all things.
[1:36:17] Speaker 1: That's not answer my question. If the Holy Spirit told
[1:36:20] Speaker 1: me the sky is blue and the Holy Spirit told
[1:36:23] Speaker 1: you the sky is not blue, which one's right? Both
[1:36:31] Speaker 1: they both the sky? Okay, all right, listen, this is
[1:36:35] Speaker 1: there's been a good time. But I don't think you're prepared.
[1:36:37] Speaker 1: You didn't bring the right boots for the hike. All right,
[1:36:39] Speaker 1: I'm gonna move on the next guest. The sky is
[1:36:43] Speaker 1: blue and not blue. Guys. You heard it here, You've
[1:36:47] Speaker 1: heard it here. Crazy. Oh boy, David, my friend, thank
[1:36:56] Speaker 1: you so much for the super chat, buddy. I really
[1:36:58] Speaker 1: appreciate the forty nine ninety nine huge big w David says,
[1:37:02] Speaker 1: it is unfair to use numbers or sorry, is it
[1:37:05] Speaker 1: unfair to use numbers five to sixteen at I don't
[1:37:09] Speaker 1: know what seq means as God being okay with abortion? Yes,
[1:37:14] Speaker 1: it is. You can use numbers five sixteen because if
[1:37:17] Speaker 1: she's pregnant, when the potion is drunk, drinking consumed, then
[1:37:25] Speaker 1: her womb discharges. Yeah, it's going to be an abortion.
[1:37:27] Speaker 1: Says I've not seen it used that way. If hippo
[1:37:31] Speaker 1: Christians used the Bible to take away bodily autonomy, do
[1:37:34] Speaker 1: they grant exception for fooling around on the hobby? Well,
[1:37:37] Speaker 1: according to the Bible, they should according to the Bible. Now,
[1:37:41] Speaker 1: like executing your child is not even that big of
[1:37:43] Speaker 1: a deal. If you go to Deuteronomy twenty one, if
[1:37:47] Speaker 1: you have an unruly son, you can just take them
[1:37:50] Speaker 1: before the elders is of the town in stone them.
[1:37:52] Speaker 1: God doesn't care if you kill your children in the Bible,
[1:37:54] Speaker 1: that's crazy. You don't care at all. Nobody. Listen, nobody
[1:37:58] Speaker 1: in history has executed more big babies than yahweh nobody.
[1:38:02] Speaker 1: He literally sends armies to rip pregnant women open. He
[1:38:06] Speaker 1: don't care about your baby, Johnny Cake says in the
[1:38:09] Speaker 1: Book of Ezra, King art Exerxes sends Ezra to Jerusalem
[1:38:12] Speaker 1: to teach the Jews to Torah. Yes, I love this fact.
[1:38:15] Speaker 1: Could this be when Judaism is changed to be more
[1:38:19] Speaker 1: like Zoroastrianism in line with the state religion. No, I
[1:38:22] Speaker 1: think it's the opposite. I think they adopted Zoroastrianism already
[1:38:27] Speaker 1: with the introduction of the Meds and the Persians, and
[1:38:31] Speaker 1: then later later Ezra and what Ezra did tried to
[1:38:38] Speaker 1: remove that and make them more in line with the
[1:38:41] Speaker 1: supposed law. So I just think it's a natural form
[1:38:45] Speaker 1: of syncretism. And if you look at what Ezra did,
[1:38:47] Speaker 1: Ezra was like having them divorce their foreign wives and children,
[1:38:52] Speaker 1: and like cutting women, like shaving people's heads because they
[1:38:56] Speaker 1: were unclean women, and like he was a maniac. He
[1:39:00] Speaker 1: was vehemently against the foreign religions. Carne just Sata, my friend.
[1:39:06] Speaker 1: Thank you for being here and thank you for the
[1:39:07] Speaker 1: super chance, says, hypnotists hate me. I couldn't be delusional,
[1:39:12] Speaker 1: I know, right, but I do believe in spiritual experiences. Yeah,
[1:39:16] Speaker 1: I've never seen a hypnotist. I've seen do a real
[1:39:19] Speaker 1: like hypnosis ever. Justin good name, thank you for the
[1:39:23] Speaker 1: super chest. Based off your recommendation, I read Martyr's Mirror.
[1:39:26] Speaker 1: I'm not okay now, Yeah, justin that books fucked up.
[1:39:30] Speaker 1: It's huge. It's one of my favorite books that I own.
[1:39:33] Speaker 1: And if you haven't read The Martyr's Mirror or at
[1:39:35] Speaker 1: least gone through it, you owe yourself a copy of
[1:39:37] Speaker 1: that book. Grumpy Butterflies says, I have another Fibonacci based
[1:39:42] Speaker 1: dad joke, but I'm afraid it's just as bad as
[1:39:45] Speaker 1: the last combine. That's grumpy. I love the joke. I
[1:39:54] Speaker 1: love the joke. I love the joke. This is fantastic.
[1:39:56] Speaker 1: We've had some good jokes in the stream already today.
[1:39:58] Speaker 1: Guys he design says religious confusion about odd experiences can
[1:40:03] Speaker 1: be fixed by mirror psych one oh one once you
[1:40:05] Speaker 1: realize how much gap filling the brain does. These things
[1:40:09] Speaker 1: are trivial. That's actually true. The brain is so good
[1:40:12] Speaker 1: at filling in gaps. It does not want gaps. That's
[1:40:16] Speaker 1: why we have so many optical illusions, because the brain
[1:40:19] Speaker 1: doesn't like the visual gaps. Disco Tits says, between you
[1:40:23] Speaker 1: and Thinker, I have twenty four kitchen. Wait what I
[1:40:28] Speaker 1: I don't know what twenty four kitchens means? But I
[1:40:32] Speaker 1: love that you're watching Thinker. She is amazing. I support
[1:40:35] Speaker 1: her work. An insert name here says topic suggestion religion
[1:40:40] Speaker 1: is bad for mental health. I have witness people with
[1:40:42] Speaker 1: schizophrenia become religiously obsessed based on God's voice or seeing Jesus,
[1:40:47] Speaker 1: not to mention PTSD and depression. So I don't do
[1:40:51] Speaker 1: this topic because I'm more concerned with the whether or
[1:40:53] Speaker 1: not it's true than whether or not it provides perceived
[1:40:57] Speaker 1: benefits or downfalls. Now you've heard me argue you vociferously
[1:41:01] Speaker 1: that it does result in negative outcomes. So I'll continue
[1:41:05] Speaker 1: to do that. But I don't know. Oh, twenty four
[1:41:08] Speaker 1: kitchens is the joke on cooking. Thank you for that.
[1:41:10] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Tim ic Felix says, what's your view
[1:41:14] Speaker 1: on Israel? Active ethnic cleansing based on the fact that
[1:41:17] Speaker 1: Jews were promised the land by God. Yeah, and even
[1:41:20] Speaker 1: in the Noah narrative, remember the Canaanites are cursed to
[1:41:25] Speaker 1: be slaves to the other children of Noah. To me,
[1:41:29] Speaker 1: this is just genocide, and the Noah story is the
[1:41:32] Speaker 1: justification for the genocide. That's all it is. I think
[1:41:35] Speaker 1: it's terrific. I don't think it's necessarily true. But to
[1:41:38] Speaker 1: be fair, it wasn't like the Israelites were the only
[1:41:41] Speaker 1: people doing it. Everybody in that time period were doing
[1:41:43] Speaker 1: that kind of nonsense. I'm not everybody, Sorry, A lot
[1:41:47] Speaker 1: of nations were We had a lot of peaceful nations too.
[1:41:51] Speaker 1: Bell says, why did the church fathers go with convoluted
[1:41:54] Speaker 1: trinity theology? You want to just have God, his prophet
[1:41:57] Speaker 1: and his spirit. Okay, Hill, Doug, thank you so much,
[1:41:59] Speaker 1: Bill for the question. And here's my understanding of things, right.
[1:42:03] Speaker 1: The reason why the early Church, like namely under Theodosius
[1:42:08] Speaker 1: and forward, why they had to stick to the Trinity
[1:42:11] Speaker 1: is because they already kind of had a formalized canon
[1:42:15] Speaker 1: and in the canon of texts that they had that
[1:42:17] Speaker 1: they already held to be sacred. It refers to Jesus
[1:42:21] Speaker 1: as God. That's just all there is to it. Paul
[1:42:24] Speaker 1: refers to Jesus as God. I think second Peter or
[1:42:27] Speaker 1: first Peter refers to Jesus as God. The Gospel of
[1:42:29] Speaker 1: John refers to Jesus as God. So at some point
[1:42:33] Speaker 1: you have to do one of two things. You have
[1:42:34] Speaker 1: to get rid of those texts, or you have to
[1:42:37] Speaker 1: make some crazy convoluted argument about how Jesus can be
[1:42:41] Speaker 1: God and also not God. And last one from our
[1:42:43] Speaker 1: friend Johnny Cakes, thank you so much for the supergest
[1:42:45] Speaker 1: says Joseph Attwill. Caesar to Messiah has holes, as you
[1:42:48] Speaker 1: have said, but damn we have Titus Flavius's niece Demittal
[1:42:54] Speaker 1: Domola and her husband, Consul Clemens, both become Christian nobles
[1:43:00] Speaker 1: with power, not people in hiding. So I agree there were,
[1:43:05] Speaker 1: like we would say, high ranking Romans that did accept
[1:43:09] Speaker 1: the cult of Christianity. For sure. I'm not saying that
[1:43:12] Speaker 1: there weren't. In fact, Constantine's mother converted to Christianity, so
[1:43:17] Speaker 1: I'm not saying that nobody did. But in order to
[1:43:20] Speaker 1: say that it was made up by the church, you
[1:43:23] Speaker 1: have to you have to do a lot of work
[1:43:26] Speaker 1: to get there, and you have to do a lot
[1:43:28] Speaker 1: with Paul, Like I think Paul's a huge problem for
[1:43:30] Speaker 1: bysticism my personal opinion. I want to grab the next guest.
[1:43:33] Speaker 1: We've had a Ruben waiting in our YouTube queue for
[1:43:36] Speaker 1: some time, so I'm going to bring Reuben in and
[1:43:38] Speaker 1: then i'll the next guest. I'll grab out of the
[1:43:41] Speaker 1: TikTok queue, and of course we'll keep everything, We'll keep
[1:43:45] Speaker 1: everything rolling. All right, Let's get Ruben in the conversation.
[1:43:49] Speaker 1: We'll come in Ruby. Hey, can you gets you me? Okay,
[1:43:52] Speaker 1: I'm sorry? What Oh if you guys didn't hear me? Okay, yeah, yeah,
[1:43:56] Speaker 1: we can hear it. You're good, okay, perfect, awesome, How
[1:43:58] Speaker 1: are you guys? Thank you for having me doing great,
[1:44:01] Speaker 1: Thank you for being here. Reuben, are you at least eighteen?
[1:44:03] Speaker 1: And do you believe in God? Yes? And yes? Awesome?
[1:44:07] Speaker 1: And are you capable of answering ayeswer no questions?
[1:44:10] Speaker 3: Yes?
[1:44:11] Speaker 1: Cool? And what God? Do you believe in the God
[1:44:16] Speaker 1: of Christ? Cool? So you're just a Christian? Right, well,
[1:44:20] Speaker 1: I'm alarady saint.
[1:44:21] Speaker 11: So classical Christians will say that we're not Christian because
[1:44:24] Speaker 11: of their as you said, as their creeds, but I
[1:44:27] Speaker 11: would say that we're Christian by the English language, which
[1:44:29] Speaker 11: makes Christ a prefix and iana suffix under the mantle
[1:44:33] Speaker 11: of Christ or in the image of Right.
[1:44:36] Speaker 1: So, first of all, I'll give you the credit. I
[1:44:39] Speaker 1: think that Mormons are Christians. I think obviously you guys
[1:44:44] Speaker 1: have a slightly different interpretation of the text, but like
[1:44:47] Speaker 1: no more different than what the non Mormon Christians are
[1:44:51] Speaker 1: doing with the Hebrew Bible. They're doing the same thing
[1:44:52] Speaker 1: with the Hebrew Bible that you guys are doing with
[1:44:55] Speaker 1: the Hebrew Bible, that you're doing with the New Testament.
[1:44:58] Speaker 1: They just you guys just ended up with some slightly
[1:45:00] Speaker 1: different theologies. So I'll give you the credit. I think
[1:45:02] Speaker 1: you're a Christian. There's a brand of Christianity that other
[1:45:06] Speaker 1: Christians don't like. So what would be the argument or
[1:45:09] Speaker 1: the evidence for the Christian God being real.
[1:45:13] Speaker 11: Well, the funny part is that I agree with most
[1:45:15] Speaker 11: of the people that were in the chat, and including yourself.
[1:45:18] Speaker 11: There's a lot of points that you made that are
[1:45:20] Speaker 11: completely valid and I think we would completely sustain. More
[1:45:24] Speaker 11: than anything is that the overarching point seems to follow
[1:45:27] Speaker 11: the same pattern right in a lot of ways. You know,
[1:45:31] Speaker 11: you guys reference, well, if this God's real, of that
[1:45:33] Speaker 11: God's real, what have you? I guess I would say
[1:45:35] Speaker 11: that the God of Christ specifically, and I personally not
[1:45:38] Speaker 11: latterity saints generally, but I had to personally delineate the
[1:45:41] Speaker 11: God of Christ from the God of the Old Testament
[1:45:43] Speaker 11: citing John eight forty four, but that there's a pattern
[1:45:48] Speaker 11: that is self evident in all things, and I would
[1:45:50] Speaker 11: say that there is.
[1:45:52] Speaker 1: One high as God.
[1:45:54] Speaker 11: That is to say that it is a path of
[1:45:56] Speaker 11: least resistance, meaning that if you're going to ask for
[1:45:58] Speaker 11: a favor, you should probably ask for the highest favor.
[1:46:01] Speaker 11: And so that's not to invalidate other people's theology or
[1:46:04] Speaker 11: personal connections to different streams, but simply that it is
[1:46:06] Speaker 11: a path of LEAs assistance in the pattern of that
[1:46:10] Speaker 11: is self evidence across all things, and one of those
[1:46:12] Speaker 11: is revelation. I love our Muslim brothers and sisters. I
[1:46:17] Speaker 11: think when they have an experience with as they perceived
[1:46:21] Speaker 11: to be or what I would agree to be is
[1:46:23] Speaker 11: the most.
[1:46:23] Speaker 1: High, I would say they're correct.
[1:46:25] Speaker 11: And I think you know a law is God in Arabic,
[1:46:29] Speaker 11: So we do believe that God speaks to all of
[1:46:32] Speaker 11: his children in their language or in a way that
[1:46:34] Speaker 11: they may understand.
[1:46:36] Speaker 1: Sure, right, but what would be the evidence that any
[1:46:40] Speaker 1: of these gods are real?
[1:46:43] Speaker 11: Well, what I mean it would be it would go
[1:46:46] Speaker 11: down to baseline reality, right, as someone else said, I
[1:46:48] Speaker 11: think love would be very high up there. But for example,
[1:46:53] Speaker 11: we have something like the law of sacrifice, right, and
[1:46:54] Speaker 11: I think this will be relevant to this latterty seeing
[1:46:56] Speaker 11: specific and we see this across all things. Because let's
[1:46:59] Speaker 11: say you go to the gym, muscles physically hard, but
[1:47:01] Speaker 11: then you're mentally stronger, emotionally stronger, physically stronger, you have children.
[1:47:05] Speaker 11: It hurts to give labor, but you know they give
[1:47:08] Speaker 11: you joy. Right, So there is this kind of element
[1:47:11] Speaker 11: where the more you surrender to the temporal, this more
[1:47:16] Speaker 11: spiritually fortified or complete you become. I think we have
[1:47:20] Speaker 11: to remember that. You know, there's a lot of things
[1:47:23] Speaker 11: that human I can see. We only have three photoreceptors.
[1:47:25] Speaker 11: We cannot say gamo, race X, race radarways. But that
[1:47:27] Speaker 11: doesn't mean that they don't exist. It just means that
[1:47:29] Speaker 11: we can't perceive them at this date.
[1:47:32] Speaker 1: Right, So I apologize, maybe I didn't hear an answer.
[1:47:36] Speaker 1: I'm just asking for like a piece of evidence that
[1:47:38] Speaker 1: would end with God being real.
[1:47:41] Speaker 11: Well, the fact that anything exists. So if anything exists,
[1:47:44] Speaker 11: there has to be a baseline, that has to be
[1:47:46] Speaker 11: an inception point.
[1:47:47] Speaker 1: Well, I don't think so. I think the universe is eternal.
[1:47:50] Speaker 1: I don't think there has ever been nothing. Do you
[1:47:54] Speaker 1: believe in the Big Bank theory? Sure? Do so?
[1:47:57] Speaker 4: Do I?
[1:47:57] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[1:47:57] Speaker 11: So, I mean at some point there has to be
[1:47:59] Speaker 11: an inception, right, I think some people go ahead.
[1:48:02] Speaker 1: The Big Bank doesn't say that there was nothing before
[1:48:04] Speaker 1: the Big Bang, but there was a point where everything materialized.
[1:48:10] Speaker 1: I don't think so. No, the Big Bank doesn't say that,
[1:48:14] Speaker 1: So how would you? Well, okay, so I guess okay.
[1:48:18] Speaker 1: So I've heard different theories of the Big Bang.
[1:48:22] Speaker 11: One of them is that basically there was or there
[1:48:25] Speaker 11: was a something and then everything materialized. So I generally
[1:48:30] Speaker 11: I would say that.
[1:48:31] Speaker 1: Time is misconstrued as humans.
[1:48:34] Speaker 11: Right, we assume time because of the the way that
[1:48:37] Speaker 11: DNA doesn't completely degenerate or regenerate. But but I would
[1:48:44] Speaker 11: defer into densities.
[1:48:46] Speaker 1: Right, there's seven densities, there's the four elements. Seven densities.
[1:48:51] Speaker 11: Well, I'm sorry, I would rather people say the world
[1:48:54] Speaker 11: trade in seven days. I would say it was seven densities.
[1:48:58] Speaker 11: You know, the four elements.
[1:48:59] Speaker 1: What do you think the density is?
[1:49:03] Speaker 11: Uh, like states of being like a rock is you know,
[1:49:09] Speaker 11: it's different plant, I would yeah, I would say it's matter. Yeah,
[1:49:13] Speaker 11: I would say it's stages of matter, right, Like humans
[1:49:15] Speaker 11: are the four or the four elements compounded to the
[1:49:18] Speaker 11: third density, right, the air in our lungs, liquid in
[1:49:21] Speaker 11: our blood, electricity in our heart, and liquid or which
[1:49:25] Speaker 11: I'm missing, like you say, air minerals in our bones.
[1:49:28] Speaker 1: I'm only aware of four states of matter. Right, there's solid, liquid, gas,
[1:49:35] Speaker 1: and plasma.
[1:49:38] Speaker 11: Right, So I think we would be humans would be
[1:49:40] Speaker 11: all four right for plast in our lungs.
[1:49:43] Speaker 3: Do what.
[1:49:45] Speaker 1: Yeah, our plasma in the human body. This would be.
[1:49:48] Speaker 1: It could be I've never heard of this. I guess, well,
[1:49:50] Speaker 1: I guess it. I guess that depends on because plasma
[1:49:54] Speaker 1: is ionized gas. So okay, So so I guess we're
[1:50:01] Speaker 1: so okay.
[1:50:02] Speaker 11: So I guess we could say we can see three
[1:50:04] Speaker 11: or four, right, and then kind of like the soul
[1:50:05] Speaker 11: or the inception point is kind of the outstanding portion.
[1:50:10] Speaker 11: But all that is to say that that we are
[1:50:12] Speaker 11: kind of a compounded to a way.
[1:50:15] Speaker 1: Experience of the.
[1:50:18] Speaker 11: You know, the minerals that we see, right, the materiality
[1:50:20] Speaker 11: that we see, and we're animated by some form of spirit.
[1:50:24] Speaker 1: And so I don't think any of that's true. I
[1:50:25] Speaker 1: don't believe in spirits.
[1:50:26] Speaker 11: Right, Well, why so you would say that what everything
[1:50:33] Speaker 11: comes from kind of the mind and the way the
[1:50:35] Speaker 11: brain works, like.
[1:50:37] Speaker 1: Or how would you describe our animation? Right? So?
[1:50:42] Speaker 11: But even that so for example, like neurons and and
[1:50:45] Speaker 11: the brain is the how, but it's still not the
[1:50:47] Speaker 11: what or the why, like it is still not it's
[1:50:50] Speaker 11: all of it.
[1:50:53] Speaker 1: That's why, like when when we when we divide people's brains,
[1:50:57] Speaker 1: when we cut the connecting the connecting pathways between the
[1:51:02] Speaker 1: two different lobes, they develop two entirely different personalities. And
[1:51:05] Speaker 1: sometimes the two personalities disagree with each other because our personality,
[1:51:09] Speaker 1: our being comes from our brain.
[1:51:13] Speaker 11: The but I guess even the even what animates it? Right,
[1:51:18] Speaker 11: so so we can understand that it comes from the brain.
[1:51:20] Speaker 11: But like the brain is the mechanism, but it's not
[1:51:24] Speaker 11: the under liar, because if you.
[1:51:27] Speaker 1: Like, we have a whole new body. Would I not
[1:51:29] Speaker 1: believe every seven years do what? Why would I not
[1:51:31] Speaker 1: believe that believe that there's an immaterial substance that's like
[1:51:37] Speaker 1: inside of my.
[1:51:38] Speaker 11: Brain, because don't we have a whole new body like
[1:51:42] Speaker 11: every seven years, like our cells, all our nails, everything
[1:51:45] Speaker 11: is completely different on a seven year turnaround.
[1:51:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's still our body though, sure, but but it is.
[1:51:51] Speaker 1: But that would delineate that is not the specific cells
[1:51:53] Speaker 1: that can posit it because they're duplicates. Sure, but if
[1:51:58] Speaker 1: I take every added in my car and I duplicate them,
[1:52:02] Speaker 1: and then as I'm duplicating the atoms, I destroy the
[1:52:06] Speaker 1: old atoms, it's still my car. I understand that, right.
[1:52:12] Speaker 11: But if the animating portion of our experience was just
[1:52:18] Speaker 11: the cell itself, even if it were to be duplicated, right,
[1:52:22] Speaker 11: it's still not It wouldn't indicate that it's fixed in
[1:52:25] Speaker 11: the in the.
[1:52:27] Speaker 1: Materiality of the cell itself, as you would illustrate. If
[1:52:30] Speaker 1: our personality is in our brain, and let's say our
[1:52:35] Speaker 1: brain cells are duplicating, then we still have the same personality,
[1:52:40] Speaker 1: like nothing's changed, but even our personality has changed though,
[1:52:44] Speaker 1: like people evolve, people we learn, Yeah, we learn, we adapt,
[1:52:49] Speaker 1: and yes, sometimes our body does take on changes and
[1:52:52] Speaker 1: that I think that's a point of argument in my favor,
[1:52:56] Speaker 1: The fact that over the course of time our personalities
[1:52:59] Speaker 1: can change adapt demonstrates that they're not from some unchangeable
[1:53:04] Speaker 1: immaterial existence, but that they're literally from a body that
[1:53:07] Speaker 1: is in a state of decay from the time we're born.
[1:53:11] Speaker 11: But if it's in the time that we're born, how
[1:53:14] Speaker 11: do we change or I guess there are two different
[1:53:16] Speaker 11: claims that you're kind of putting together. But I guess
[1:53:19] Speaker 11: if if they're if they're changing for the positive from
[1:53:25] Speaker 11: when we're born, hopefully, why would that also be an
[1:53:29] Speaker 11: indication of degenerous or a decay because they're moving into
[1:53:32] Speaker 11: different directions.
[1:53:33] Speaker 1: The same thing about positive?
[1:53:35] Speaker 11: No, No, I'm saying that, right, people, people change for
[1:53:37] Speaker 11: the better, I think more often than not.
[1:53:39] Speaker 1: Hopefully.
[1:53:41] Speaker 11: Sure, sorry, sure, but if there if they can change
[1:53:43] Speaker 11: for the better, then a state of decay or cellular decay,
[1:53:49] Speaker 11: I don't imagine to be construed for changing for the
[1:53:52] Speaker 11: worst or for the better, rather or even possible if
[1:53:55] Speaker 11: it's just okay, I'm.
[1:53:56] Speaker 1: Not saying I'm not saying their personalities decay. I'm saying
[1:53:59] Speaker 1: on the cell level, we are decaying over time. Everything
[1:54:03] Speaker 1: in the universe is theoretically decaying into something else?
[1:54:09] Speaker 3: Do you?
[1:54:09] Speaker 11: So, I guess do you do you think that the
[1:54:11] Speaker 11: universe is like that? Or is it still expanding or
[1:54:14] Speaker 11: is it control?
[1:54:15] Speaker 4: Like?
[1:54:15] Speaker 1: What's kind of your position on that it's expanding? We
[1:54:17] Speaker 1: know it's expanding, we can measure it. Yeah, I agree,
[1:54:20] Speaker 1: I actually agree with you.
[1:54:21] Speaker 11: Yeah, So if it's expanding, then there has to be
[1:54:23] Speaker 11: some moving forwards that it's causing it to expand.
[1:54:25] Speaker 1: Now dark energy, are you well energy or sure, let's
[1:54:32] Speaker 1: go with that.
[1:54:33] Speaker 11: But but something is cousting, which means there's I agree
[1:54:35] Speaker 11: with you, I think it's still expanding, And a lot
[1:54:36] Speaker 11: of Christians disagree with me on this, even a lot
[1:54:38] Speaker 11: of these things disagree with me on this. But but
[1:54:40] Speaker 11: if we're still expanding, it doesn't any sense or reason
[1:54:42] Speaker 11: that humanity at large is still expanding. Even if you're
[1:54:45] Speaker 11: done with theory of evolution, it would indicate that we're
[1:54:47] Speaker 11: still expanding humans.
[1:54:48] Speaker 1: We're talking about the universe, like the universe can be expanding.
[1:54:52] Speaker 1: Does does it mean I'm expanding? Right? So I guess
[1:54:57] Speaker 1: what I'm getting at is that I guess in.
[1:54:58] Speaker 11: My worldview or my theology, going back to God or
[1:55:01] Speaker 11: what is God is, is that the underlying nature that
[1:55:04] Speaker 11: is a pattern of all things. If if the universe expanding,
[1:55:08] Speaker 11: then I think it's sense the reason, and I think
[1:55:09] Speaker 11: we can see humans expanding and evolving individually and collectively
[1:55:13] Speaker 11: in many ways.
[1:55:16] Speaker 2: Would you not think that that's the case.
[1:55:20] Speaker 1: No, I don't think humans are expanding. We're evolving.
[1:55:24] Speaker 11: So you don't think humans are mentally, emotionally and spiritually
[1:55:27] Speaker 11: expanding at all in the last two thousand years.
[1:55:29] Speaker 1: Evolving, I don't think expanding is the right word.
[1:55:35] Speaker 11: Well, I guess I guess in my theology and kind
[1:55:38] Speaker 11: of in my world view the the it's not linear.
[1:55:41] Speaker 11: So I guess something that I would say I disagree
[1:55:43] Speaker 11: with clasical Christians is like this idea that those is
[1:55:47] Speaker 11: like daisy chain of keys and then keys were dropped
[1:55:50] Speaker 11: and then one church picks up one keys to the next. Normally,
[1:55:52] Speaker 11: because the Bible alself does not say that in or
[1:55:55] Speaker 11: does it know that can be construed. But I guess
[1:55:57] Speaker 11: what I'm getting at is that I think.
[1:56:01] Speaker 1: I believe it.
[1:56:02] Speaker 11: So I believe that a church is true from like
[1:56:03] Speaker 11: based on reality perspective, that it's kind of in the
[1:56:05] Speaker 11: pattern of everything.
[1:56:06] Speaker 1: We have total apostles. But then we also have twelve months.
[1:56:09] Speaker 11: We also have you know, twelve you know, core constellations.
[1:56:13] Speaker 1: So I guess, I guess to.
[1:56:15] Speaker 11: Answer your point about a god or the nature of
[1:56:17] Speaker 11: a God, and I guess maybe if we get to
[1:56:19] Speaker 11: this point then we can agree to degree forward. But
[1:56:22] Speaker 11: is that there's there's elements of of core truths that
[1:56:28] Speaker 11: are perceivable across the board. Right, Whether in agreeing with
[1:56:34] Speaker 11: you that God is expanding, I would say that humans, hopefully,
[1:56:38] Speaker 11: if they're growing spiritually or like centered in Christ, I
[1:56:41] Speaker 11: would say, are expanding mentally, emotionally and spiritually because we
[1:56:44] Speaker 11: believe internal progression. Actually, it might be the best answer
[1:56:46] Speaker 11: for you that we believe internal progression, right, And if
[1:56:48] Speaker 11: you believe in a God that is expanding still, then
[1:56:51] Speaker 11: then you would kind of begin to align with our.
[1:56:54] Speaker 1: Ideology of the idea that we are. I think, I think,
[1:57:00] Speaker 1: not to interrupt you, I think you've lost the plot.
[1:57:02] Speaker 1: I have no idea what you're talking about. We we
[1:57:04] Speaker 1: were talking about the Big Bang and the expansion of
[1:57:07] Speaker 1: the universe. I have no idea what you're talking about now.
[1:57:11] Speaker 11: Okay, So with the expensive of the universe, our letters
[1:57:14] Speaker 11: and theology is that we believe in internal progression. Right,
[1:57:17] Speaker 11: So are our ideology within line up with or I
[1:57:21] Speaker 11: theology within line up with what we know or what
[1:57:23] Speaker 11: you would agree that the universe is already doing?
[1:57:27] Speaker 1: Does that so far make sense? I agree that, yes,
[1:57:30] Speaker 1: your theology should match science. We agree there. I don't
[1:57:33] Speaker 1: think it does so okay.
[1:57:38] Speaker 11: So so I would say that our theology does perfectly
[1:57:40] Speaker 11: match science in a lot of ways, like some people
[1:57:42] Speaker 11: accuse us of.
[1:57:43] Speaker 1: Do you believe in the global flood? I believe in
[1:57:47] Speaker 1: a poll shift in the pull shift theory. Yeah, But
[1:57:50] Speaker 1: do you believe the entire earth flooded? I know not.
[1:57:55] Speaker 1: I don't think so not because Genesis says is the
[1:57:59] Speaker 1: water reached to the tops of the highest mountain? Okay?
[1:58:02] Speaker 1: So okay? So our I was reading this last night.
[1:58:05] Speaker 11: Our Articles of Faith says that we believe in the
[1:58:09] Speaker 11: Bible to the extent in which it was translated correctly,
[1:58:13] Speaker 11: which I construed to be a soft nudge of a
[1:58:20] Speaker 11: not really in a very polite way. I there's a
[1:58:23] Speaker 11: lot of things that other than the God like, there's
[1:58:27] Speaker 11: a lot of things. I think they got to the
[1:58:29] Speaker 11: ones something like I said, is is satan in for
[1:58:31] Speaker 11: for quite a few reasons, but.
[1:58:33] Speaker 1: Right, but did the water reach to the heights of
[1:58:37] Speaker 1: the tallest mountain. That's what I'm asking. I mean, if
[1:58:40] Speaker 1: a pole shifted, it sense to reason, right, because if
[1:58:42] Speaker 1: a pole shifts, then then it you know, whatever south
[1:58:46] Speaker 1: standing would you know, would be flooded, and then they
[1:58:49] Speaker 1: would be the crossover between Atlantis and Noa's arc. No,
[1:58:52] Speaker 1: that's right. So if in fact the entire earth flooded,
[1:58:56] Speaker 1: we would expect the entire Earth to be underwater. Well,
[1:59:02] Speaker 1: I don't believe the entire earth flooded. I believe the
[1:59:04] Speaker 1: pole shifted.
[1:59:05] Speaker 11: So what was up like Atlanta's may may have been,
[1:59:09] Speaker 11: you know, above water before the last pole ship and
[1:59:11] Speaker 11: now it's underwater.
[1:59:12] Speaker 1: Justis seven says it was is the water swelled and
[1:59:15] Speaker 1: increased greatly on the Earth, and the arc floated on
[1:59:17] Speaker 1: the face of the waters. The water swelled so mightily
[1:59:19] Speaker 1: on the Earth that all the high mountains under the
[1:59:24] Speaker 1: whole heaven were covered, all of the mountains under the
[1:59:28] Speaker 1: entire heavens. Means the entire planet was covered in water.
[1:59:32] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, No, I definitely don't believe that. Okay, So
[1:59:35] Speaker 1: this is the problem, right, So we have a Bible
[1:59:38] Speaker 1: that is fighting against science, not with science. Oh sorry,
[1:59:43] Speaker 1: I got to fix my layer real quick. Apologize one
[1:59:45] Speaker 1: a second. Oh no, no, I agree, So I agree with you.
[1:59:47] Speaker 11: So I would say, like a lot of these things
[1:59:48] Speaker 11: are Christian and so far they will look onto Christ
[1:59:50] Speaker 11: and we are also Holy Spirit, or I would say
[1:59:53] Speaker 11: Christ for but we don't. Yeah, we don't think the
[1:59:58] Speaker 11: Bible's infallible at all. Like that's not our decision.
[2:00:00] Speaker 1: Okay, so you think it's true until science proves it wrong. No,
[2:00:06] Speaker 1: I never thought well to be.
[2:00:07] Speaker 11: I actually came from a purely secular and almost into
[2:00:10] Speaker 11: religious I was recently baptisted, and I came from a
[2:00:12] Speaker 11: purely secular worldview. So no, I actually I will take
[2:00:18] Speaker 11: Joseph Smith's personal theology over the Bible in the idea
[2:00:23] Speaker 11: to what someone else.
[2:00:24] Speaker 1: Said, right, like we believe.
[2:00:26] Speaker 11: I think the promise social Smith is that we can
[2:00:28] Speaker 11: all have that personal connection and rights to quote unquote
[2:00:30] Speaker 11: the level of profit, and that is within our doctrine
[2:00:32] Speaker 11: and doctrine Coveing in seventy six. So the thing is,
[2:00:35] Speaker 11: you know you said earlier, people get the Holy Spirit
[2:00:37] Speaker 11: wrong all the time, or they giving complex information. The
[2:00:40] Speaker 11: struggle I think we would find is in the discernment
[2:00:43] Speaker 11: right and it you know, someone else was like, how
[2:00:47] Speaker 11: do you see the face of God? Which which is
[2:00:49] Speaker 11: the prescription for us? And my answer was you have
[2:00:51] Speaker 11: to crouse your fears, phobias and securities. And quite frankly,
[2:00:55] Speaker 11: I guess like.
[2:00:55] Speaker 1: The Okay, so you believe in the Book of Mormon
[2:00:58] Speaker 1: over the Bible.
[2:00:59] Speaker 11: Is that you're saying, I believe in the articles of
[2:01:02] Speaker 11: faith in our theology, I believe so the Book of Mormon,
[2:01:06] Speaker 11: I think is a deeply esoteric reading.
[2:01:09] Speaker 1: So for example, like Sarah Hemla means radiant.
[2:01:14] Speaker 11: Uh, compassion, which would turn it into kind of a
[2:01:18] Speaker 11: christ mystery in that way. So I yeah, so I
[2:01:24] Speaker 11: I do believe that it was channels or you know,
[2:01:26] Speaker 11: it was channel content that that is multi dimensional or
[2:01:29] Speaker 11: multi layers, and so it hits you depending on where
[2:01:31] Speaker 11: you're at in your spiritual kind of journey.
[2:01:33] Speaker 1: Does not the Book of Mormon say that during now
[2:01:35] Speaker 1: this time the earth was completely covered with water the
[2:01:41] Speaker 1: so it seems to.
[2:01:43] Speaker 11: Be not that I I if you can point out
[2:01:47] Speaker 11: the exact passage where it says that even like the
[2:01:50] Speaker 11: names of of the Book of Mormon, right, Nephi and Laimanites,
[2:01:54] Speaker 11: I think would coincide with like Limuria and the last
[2:01:57] Speaker 11: epoch which we know exists in the West, actually like
[2:01:59] Speaker 11: under down Chasta, and then the Niphilum and it, and
[2:02:03] Speaker 11: then it also goes into the I would say, the
[2:02:06] Speaker 11: Pride cycle or the Lucipheric I would say impulse, and
[2:02:09] Speaker 11: then the violent or satanic impulse in the in the
[2:02:13] Speaker 11: violent iteration of that.
[2:02:15] Speaker 1: But I think it's much more.
[2:02:17] Speaker 11: Even our early prophets said that we have forgotten even
[2:02:21] Speaker 11: how to read the Book of Mormon, and that it
[2:02:22] Speaker 11: will be restored. This remembrance would be restored at around
[2:02:26] Speaker 11: this time.
[2:02:29] Speaker 1: So the premis the reason I believe in Christ. Right,
[2:02:32] Speaker 1: So maybe we should get like white Christian because so
[2:02:34] Speaker 1: in the moment in the Book of Moses, chapter seven says, behold, uh,
[2:02:40] Speaker 1: these which steine eyes are pond shall perish in the floods,
[2:02:43] Speaker 1: And behold, I will shut them up a prison I
[2:02:46] Speaker 1: have prepared for them. Did God not execute the people
[2:02:50] Speaker 1: in the flood? So again we don't.
[2:02:55] Speaker 11: We don't take the Bible us infallible or even probably templated.
[2:03:01] Speaker 11: But actually to that, I will say, I think there
[2:03:03] Speaker 11: comes a point where where logical conclusion right. So for example,
[2:03:07] Speaker 11: we can say the world is really corrupt. Right now,
[2:03:08] Speaker 11: we can say governments are corrupt, the money systems corrupts,
[2:03:11] Speaker 11: everything corrupts, right and so, and this is my personal view,
[2:03:15] Speaker 11: but I think the reason why jose Smith ran for
[2:03:18] Speaker 11: office a lot of those propities kind of happened is
[2:03:20] Speaker 11: because in our theology, and we believe in a pre
[2:03:23] Speaker 11: mortal existence, there has to be a mechanism by which
[2:03:27] Speaker 11: human the human spirit or the human soul can grow.
[2:03:29] Speaker 11: And if all of those elements are taken away and
[2:03:31] Speaker 11: there's no willing participant, meaning like there's no ten people
[2:03:34] Speaker 11: that are decent, but basically there's no willing participant that's
[2:03:36] Speaker 11: willing to take on the corruption. Obviously about higher power,
[2:03:40] Speaker 11: because all materiality would suggest that you know, they control
[2:03:43] Speaker 11: you know, the money supply, the wars and all, you know,
[2:03:45] Speaker 11: weapons of wars and all that.
[2:03:46] Speaker 1: So it has to be a higher power, right.
[2:03:49] Speaker 11: And if no, So the logical conclusion then is, if
[2:03:54] Speaker 11: no one is willing to take on the corruption and
[2:03:56] Speaker 11: everyone just kind of melts into it, then the thing,
[2:04:00] Speaker 11: the system actually kind of has to reset. If the
[2:04:02] Speaker 11: human experience, according to our theology, which is for the
[2:04:05] Speaker 11: evolution of the soul. It has to be reset because
[2:04:09] Speaker 11: there's that mechanism no longer serves a purpose of the
[2:04:12] Speaker 11: evolution of the soul of man, if that makes sense.
[2:04:15] Speaker 1: So it's not so much that. But okay, I have
[2:04:17] Speaker 1: literally no idea what you're talking about. I'm still talking
[2:04:19] Speaker 1: about whether or not the Book of Mormon teaches that
[2:04:21] Speaker 1: the flood was global, because it says in Alma ten. Yeah,
[2:04:25] Speaker 1: and I say unto you that if it were not
[2:04:27] Speaker 1: for the prayers of the righteous who are now in
[2:04:30] Speaker 1: the land, that ye would even now be visited with
[2:04:33] Speaker 1: utter destruction. Yet it would not be by a flood,
[2:04:37] Speaker 1: as it were the people in the days of Noah.
[2:04:39] Speaker 1: So according to Alma ten, everyone died in the flood
[2:04:44] Speaker 1: of Noah.
[2:04:45] Speaker 11: Right, hold on, But Alma san has the same constingency
[2:04:48] Speaker 11: that I just gave you, because there's good people.
[2:04:51] Speaker 1: There's one willing person to take on corruption. Right, Like,
[2:04:54] Speaker 1: just take a deep breath, Okay, I need you to
[2:05:00] Speaker 1: say linear. The question we're asking is, does the Book
[2:05:04] Speaker 1: of Mormon, does Joseph Smith teach that there was a
[2:05:08] Speaker 1: global flood like the Bible says of Noah? Does it
[2:05:11] Speaker 1: teach that what it can be? Yeah? Because he can
[2:05:16] Speaker 1: yes or no? Does it happen? Go ahead? Does it
[2:05:20] Speaker 1: teach that there was a global flood that killed the inhabitants,
[2:05:23] Speaker 1: just like the Bible says. Does it say that, Yeah,
[2:05:26] Speaker 1: but it says because there's a few people that are good.
[2:05:29] Speaker 1: He hasn't done that. So I didn't ask you why,
[2:05:32] Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, Okay, So let's get back on track,
[2:05:36] Speaker 1: rub and let's focus. Okay, the Bible and the Book
[2:05:39] Speaker 1: of Mormon both teach that there was a global flood
[2:05:42] Speaker 1: that wiped out humanity save Noah and his family. That's
[2:05:45] Speaker 1: what we're talking about right now. Now. I don't believe
[2:05:47] Speaker 1: there's any evidence for that flood. I think the whole
[2:05:50] Speaker 1: story is ridiculous. The idea that like there would be
[2:05:53] Speaker 1: literally pandas that were saved and then somehow they had
[2:05:58] Speaker 1: to round up their own bamboo for three hundred and
[2:06:00] Speaker 1: seventy four, three hundred and seventy one days or whatever
[2:06:03] Speaker 1: they were on the arc. The whole story is ridiculous.
[2:06:07] Speaker 11: Hold on, give me a second, but you're you're I
[2:06:09] Speaker 11: agree with you. I agree with you, But the whole
[2:06:11] Speaker 11: earth does not have to flood for Alma or even
[2:06:13] Speaker 11: for your claims to be true because there was a
[2:06:15] Speaker 11: pull shift, which I think even scientifically we can construe
[2:06:18] Speaker 11: that there was. Then then there would be a flood.
[2:06:21] Speaker 11: But that's not to say that the whole world flooded.
[2:06:23] Speaker 11: It says utter destruction, Reuben, utter destruction.
[2:06:26] Speaker 1: Correct. So Atlanta, the Bible says, The Bible says that
[2:06:29] Speaker 1: the entire earth was covered in water.
[2:06:32] Speaker 11: Sure, but you know, we don't have Atlantis anymore, but
[2:06:35] Speaker 11: we do have underground or underwe I think Atlantis is
[2:06:38] Speaker 11: a real thing. Yeah, I would think so. I think
[2:06:42] Speaker 11: the pole shifted from the time of Atlantis.
[2:06:44] Speaker 1: But what do you do you think Atlantis they were
[2:06:46] Speaker 1: out there was like advanced technology and computers and flying cars,
[2:06:49] Speaker 1: and then God was like application. No.
[2:06:52] Speaker 11: No, I believe that it would have been above water
[2:06:54] Speaker 11: before the last poll shift, and I think science could
[2:06:58] Speaker 11: could concur with that that if there was a pull shift,
[2:07:00] Speaker 11: then there was land mass that was above water that
[2:07:02] Speaker 11: is now underwater, and there's land mass that's above water.
[2:07:05] Speaker 1: Now, wait, what do you think of under one? What
[2:07:07] Speaker 1: in the world do you think a poll shift is? Well,
[2:07:11] Speaker 1: exactly did you?
[2:07:13] Speaker 11: Didn't you see the declassified ci A Adam and Eve's story.
[2:07:17] Speaker 1: It got really big on it's been really so these
[2:07:19] Speaker 1: are these are conspiracy theories. What do you think a
[2:07:21] Speaker 1: poll shift is a polls? Well, I would say that
[2:07:23] Speaker 1: the poles literally shift from from the north pole and
[2:07:28] Speaker 1: the south pole, the pulse shift, and then there's like
[2:07:30] Speaker 1: a new pull in, so the whole, the whole. What
[2:07:34] Speaker 1: do you think a pole is like a magnetic like
[2:07:39] Speaker 1: a thank you? It's a magnetic shift. Yees, so we're
[2:07:43] Speaker 1: talking about a magnetic shift. There's no land or water
[2:07:46] Speaker 1: moving with the magnetic shift. Yeah under the well, even
[2:07:53] Speaker 1: even people in secular world right now talking.
[2:07:55] Speaker 11: About a pull shift would suggest that the yeah, okay,
[2:08:00] Speaker 11: so why is there?
[2:08:02] Speaker 1: But I think I think you're having trouble like tracking
[2:08:07] Speaker 1: where we're at in the conversation. The pole shift has
[2:08:10] Speaker 1: nothing to do with whether or not the planet was
[2:08:13] Speaker 1: globally flooded. That's the question we're after because according to
[2:08:18] Speaker 1: the Book of Mormon, it seems that way. According to
[2:08:20] Speaker 1: the Bible, it absolutely says that. So I'm trying to
[2:08:24] Speaker 1: figure out, like what you believe. Do you believe the
[2:08:28] Speaker 1: Bible and the Book of Mormon or not?
[2:08:31] Speaker 11: I believe the statements in the Alma ten that you read,
[2:08:34] Speaker 11: which means that yes, people were flooded, but that's not
[2:08:38] Speaker 11: to say that the whole planet was flooded concurrently or
[2:08:43] Speaker 11: flooded at the same time, because what I'm saying is
[2:08:46] Speaker 11: a pole shift would.
[2:08:48] Speaker 1: Okay, we have underground we have underwater.
[2:08:50] Speaker 11: Remnants in Cancun. Like I when I was little, I
[2:08:53] Speaker 11: walked on underwater remnants of cities, right, So how that
[2:08:59] Speaker 11: those get underwater?
[2:09:01] Speaker 1: Because the water masses and the land masses move. We
[2:09:05] Speaker 1: have tectonic activity, we have glacier melt, that's how. That's why,
[2:09:10] Speaker 1: Like right now in the Persian Gulf, there used to
[2:09:14] Speaker 1: be settlements that aren't there anymore, just like in the
[2:09:16] Speaker 1: border of the Black Sea, there are settlements that used
[2:09:19] Speaker 1: to be there that aren't there anymore because sometimes the
[2:09:22] Speaker 1: bodies of water flood over, so on and so forth.
[2:09:25] Speaker 1: That's it, right. So from the purview of a writer
[2:09:31] Speaker 1: or a people of a of a you know area,
[2:09:36] Speaker 1: they could perceive themselves or their their world plunning. But
[2:09:43] Speaker 1: I do want to go back to the pulshit because
[2:09:45] Speaker 1: the pulshift everything around it, even even now in secular
[2:09:50] Speaker 1: circles and scientific circles, suggests that the land masses would
[2:09:54] Speaker 1: in fact shift and if you guys want to pull up,
[2:09:57] Speaker 1: you're missing the plot. The question has nothing to do
[2:09:59] Speaker 1: with what a poll shift would encompass. We're asking whether
[2:10:03] Speaker 1: or not the world was globally flooded. The pole shift
[2:10:06] Speaker 1: doesn't do anything to get you to the answer. Well,
[2:10:10] Speaker 1: it would have been flooded during the transition of the poll,
[2:10:12] Speaker 1: according to but no one cares. We're not asking whether
[2:10:16] Speaker 1: or not it happened. I'm asking what scale? What scale?
[2:10:22] Speaker 1: I well, it would be global, it would be global.
[2:10:25] Speaker 1: Then there was a global flood. Sure, I thought you
[2:10:31] Speaker 1: meant global flood from the from the permanent perspective, which
[2:10:34] Speaker 1: I can't believe. I'm having this conversation right now. Okay,
[2:10:38] Speaker 1: so you you're doing all this work with the idea
[2:10:41] Speaker 1: that we can get rid of the global flood. But
[2:10:45] Speaker 1: the Bible, in the Book of Mormon disagreed. They think
[2:10:48] Speaker 1: there was a global flood. Do you see the problem? No,
[2:10:52] Speaker 1: I could. I could give you the global flowd That's fine.
[2:10:54] Speaker 11: But even in nowm'son that you're read, it's still carves
[2:10:56] Speaker 11: out except for the few good saints that hasn't happened,
[2:10:59] Speaker 11: which which my conclusion that as long as as willing
[2:11:02] Speaker 11: people to take on the ills of the world.
[2:11:07] Speaker 1: That won't happen because the purposes.
[2:11:10] Speaker 11: By which souls incarnate according to our theology, which is
[2:11:14] Speaker 11: to spiritually evolve, can still take place the moment you
[2:11:17] Speaker 11: remove the ability for free will and certain what we
[2:11:21] Speaker 11: would call like natural law or like God's pattern of
[2:11:25] Speaker 11: like free will.
[2:11:26] Speaker 1: But you keep going into theology. The theology has nothing
[2:11:29] Speaker 1: to do what we're talking about here. I don't know
[2:11:31] Speaker 1: why you're on the theology. Alls we're trying to figure
[2:11:34] Speaker 1: out is if your religion teaches that there was a
[2:11:37] Speaker 1: global flood, it's just a yes or no. Okay, sure
[2:11:40] Speaker 1: we can say yes, okay, all right, we get to
[2:11:43] Speaker 1: say fifteen minutes. So your religion teaches in fact that
[2:11:47] Speaker 1: there was a global flood. This is a nonsensical story.
[2:11:51] Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense to me. How in the
[2:11:53] Speaker 1: world did the pandas get from China over to wherever
[2:11:58] Speaker 1: the boat was and then survive in a boat for
[2:12:00] Speaker 1: a full year. How'd that happened? Where? Where's the story
[2:12:05] Speaker 1: of the panda's coming from? The Bible says that the
[2:12:10] Speaker 1: animals were preserved on in fact the arc. Unless you
[2:12:15] Speaker 1: believe in evolution, do you believe in evolution. I believe
[2:12:20] Speaker 1: in I guess more so devolution, that we materialized from
[2:12:22] Speaker 1: a higher place. Do you believe in evolution? Was the question? No, okay,
[2:12:28] Speaker 1: So what that means is that for panda bears to exist,
[2:12:31] Speaker 1: we needed panda bears on the arc.
[2:12:36] Speaker 11: Well, I believe in a devolution that we materialized from
[2:12:39] Speaker 11: a higher place and we increasingly materialized it.
[2:12:42] Speaker 1: Do you think that there were bears on the arc?
[2:12:47] Speaker 1: I don't believe in that story in that way, so
[2:12:50] Speaker 1: the story is not true. Well, I believe there was
[2:12:53] Speaker 1: a flood that trod nos ark. I believe that's a
[2:12:54] Speaker 1: crossover from Atlantis into the modern world in the pul shift, right,
[2:12:58] Speaker 1: which you believe that there was a guy named Noah
[2:13:02] Speaker 1: who put a bunch of animals on a boat and
[2:13:05] Speaker 1: saved humanity and the animals during the flood, as is
[2:13:09] Speaker 1: taught both in the Bible and the Book of Mormon.
[2:13:11] Speaker 1: Do you believe that, Yes, I believe there was a person. Know.
[2:13:19] Speaker 1: If you think that's true, then the question needs to
[2:13:22] Speaker 1: be asked, how did the individual animals get on the
[2:13:26] Speaker 1: arc and what the fuck were they doing for the
[2:13:28] Speaker 1: year they were on the arc? Presumably lions need to
[2:13:32] Speaker 1: eat fresh meat. They can't even digest most of most
[2:13:36] Speaker 1: grass or grain. They can't do it. They must eat
[2:13:39] Speaker 1: fresh meat. How do you store enough meat on an
[2:13:42] Speaker 1: arc to feed the carnivores for an entire year?
[2:13:47] Speaker 11: So okay, So I don't believe that the Bible stories
[2:13:50] Speaker 11: are exactly as they're written as far as Noah's art goes.
[2:13:56] Speaker 11: I do believe that there was a giant boat that
[2:13:58] Speaker 11: was built to save harbor some animals amids some form
[2:14:01] Speaker 11: of pull shift. But that takes only a couple of days.
[2:14:04] Speaker 1: And then you don't believe in the Book of Mormon,
[2:14:08] Speaker 1: and you don't believe in the Bible. Well, you.
[2:14:14] Speaker 11: Kind of had to finagle your way into making that
[2:14:16] Speaker 11: the claim of the Book of Mormon, because that the
[2:14:18] Speaker 11: Almal passage that you cited does not necessarily require all
[2:14:21] Speaker 11: those things to be true. The Almal passage that you
[2:14:24] Speaker 11: cited only states that a certain people were flooded or
[2:14:28] Speaker 11: destroyed because there was no more good left among them.
[2:14:32] Speaker 1: That's what that passage says.
[2:14:33] Speaker 11: That doesn't say, yeah, the earth flooded and that Noah
[2:14:37] Speaker 11: was for a year, doesn't It doesn't co sign the
[2:14:39] Speaker 11: entire story.
[2:14:40] Speaker 1: I know, it doesn't co sign the entire story. But
[2:14:43] Speaker 1: if the Bible isn't true, then neither is the Book
[2:14:47] Speaker 1: of Mormon. Just just we're clear. You're like, your book
[2:14:51] Speaker 1: is based on the Bible, so when it talks about
[2:14:53] Speaker 1: Biblical stories in the same way the Bible talks about them,
[2:14:58] Speaker 1: then it's just you should have think that they agree,
[2:15:01] Speaker 1: because if the Book of Mormon and the Bible disagree,
[2:15:04] Speaker 1: that means they're not harmonious, which means something's wrong. If
[2:15:07] Speaker 1: the Book of Mormon disagrees with the Bible, why in
[2:15:10] Speaker 1: the world would I choose the Book of Mormon over
[2:15:12] Speaker 1: the Bible. The Well, there's a couple, so I'll give
[2:15:16] Speaker 1: you a couple of reasons. So also, I just want
[2:15:19] Speaker 1: to make sure we're sorry to interrupt, I just want
[2:15:21] Speaker 1: to make sure we're very clear on the Alma passage,
[2:15:23] Speaker 1: because I think you're not really reading it. He's saying
[2:15:26] Speaker 1: that he's saying that God could wipe you out. He says,
[2:15:31] Speaker 1: I say unto you that if it were not for
[2:15:34] Speaker 1: the prayers of the righteous who are now in the land,
[2:15:38] Speaker 1: that ye would even now be visited with utter destruction.
[2:15:43] Speaker 1: Yet it would not be it would not be by
[2:15:47] Speaker 1: a flood, as it were in the people, or as
[2:15:50] Speaker 1: it as were the people in the days of Noah.
[2:15:53] Speaker 1: He's saying that the people in the days of Noah's
[2:15:56] Speaker 1: time were visited by utter destruction. That's complete, final destruction.
[2:16:03] Speaker 1: It agrees with what the Bible says. The Bible says
[2:16:06] Speaker 1: that humankind, everything that had breath and his lungs were
[2:16:08] Speaker 1: utterly destroyed. Correct because there was no more righteous among them.
[2:16:13] Speaker 1: I agree that the rights where no one's questioning the righteous.
[2:16:17] Speaker 1: I don't know why you can't follow along. No one
[2:16:20] Speaker 1: is questioning about whether they were righteous or unrighteous. We're
[2:16:22] Speaker 1: questioning what happened during the flood. During the flood, the
[2:16:28] Speaker 1: Bible says the entire world flooded. Says, Noah built a
[2:16:32] Speaker 1: big boat and he put the animals on it. The
[2:16:34] Speaker 1: Book Mormon seems to agree with that. The Book of
[2:16:36] Speaker 1: Mormon describes the flood as being utter destruction. So if
[2:16:42] Speaker 1: in fact that story is not true, it means that
[2:16:46] Speaker 1: the Bible story isn't true, And it means that the
[2:16:48] Speaker 1: Book of Mormon isn't true. Because the Book of Mormon
[2:16:50] Speaker 1: is not true, the Bible is not true.
[2:16:55] Speaker 11: What I'm saying is, yes, there could have been and
[2:16:57] Speaker 11: I do believe there was animals and all that I
[2:16:59] Speaker 11: know as far as why there's pandas in different parts.
[2:17:02] Speaker 11: You know the second part of your claim, because your
[2:17:04] Speaker 11: claim is not whether. It's not just whether or not
[2:17:06] Speaker 11: that's true. Your claim is in how are these animals
[2:17:08] Speaker 11: in different places? I would say the second part of
[2:17:10] Speaker 11: your claim would can be construed by the spinning of everything,
[2:17:15] Speaker 11: and then people can go research the pull shift. I
[2:17:19] Speaker 11: guess that he's on their own, but that would answer
[2:17:21] Speaker 11: that second part of the.
[2:17:22] Speaker 1: Poll shift doesn't answer anything. Well, no one's questioning, but
[2:17:27] Speaker 1: the poll shift. I can grant you the poll shift.
[2:17:30] Speaker 1: It doesn't fix the problem that we're talking about. The
[2:17:32] Speaker 1: pull shift is ir relevant. Well, what you're talking about
[2:17:37] Speaker 1: is how the story of Noah worked functionally. How did
[2:17:41] Speaker 1: the animals get there, what were they eating? How did
[2:17:44] Speaker 1: they get their their destinations? How do we get kangaroos
[2:17:47] Speaker 1: all the way in Australia? How do we get penguins
[2:17:50] Speaker 1: all the way from either the Arctic or the Antarctica.
[2:17:53] Speaker 1: I forget which one they're in. There's functional questions in
[2:17:57] Speaker 1: the story that can't be accounted for because this story
[2:18:00] Speaker 1: is fictional, and when they first created a story. They
[2:18:03] Speaker 1: didn't bother to think through all these problems.
[2:18:07] Speaker 11: Correct, But with you granting me the pull shift, it
[2:18:10] Speaker 11: does answer those questions.
[2:18:12] Speaker 1: It does not. The question isn't about the pull shift.
[2:18:16] Speaker 1: The question is how did the animals get there, how
[2:18:19] Speaker 1: did they get dispersed? What did the lions eat after
[2:18:23] Speaker 1: they left the arc?
[2:18:25] Speaker 11: If you okay, so, if you look into the modern
[2:18:29] Speaker 11: or the current prospectives on a pulse shift.
[2:18:33] Speaker 1: Everything can't stop them. I'm gonna make you a deal.
[2:18:36] Speaker 1: If you say pull shift one more time, I will
[2:18:38] Speaker 1: drop you. I won't even give you the courtesy of
[2:18:40] Speaker 1: saying the last word. I will drop you like a
[2:18:42] Speaker 1: bad habit. No one gives a shit about pull shift.
[2:18:45] Speaker 1: I'm asking you functional questions about the animals, but you're
[2:18:49] Speaker 1: operating about five. I'm asking you questions about the animals.
[2:18:54] Speaker 11: If everything spindles, animals are going to end up in
[2:18:57] Speaker 11: different places?
[2:18:58] Speaker 1: Is the simple answer to that. You're not now the
[2:19:01] Speaker 1: second part during this conversation, So I'm just gonna going
[2:19:04] Speaker 1: to turn this off and move on. I'm not going
[2:19:06] Speaker 1: to spend any more energy on this. Okay, we move
[2:19:10] Speaker 1: on to someone who can pay attention to the flow
[2:19:12] Speaker 1: of conversation. I'm not going to waste any more time
[2:19:14] Speaker 1: on that. I mean, grab a couple super chests. We'll
[2:19:16] Speaker 1: get our next guests in here. Miko says, our God,
[2:19:19] Speaker 1: ghosts and Jesus are ever meant? Wait what our God,
[2:19:25] Speaker 1: ghost and Jesus are ever mentioned together? Not counting the
[2:19:28] Speaker 1: Johannan clause. Uh, usually only two that write a twinity
[2:19:35] Speaker 1: rather than a trinity. Kind of, we don't get a
[2:19:38] Speaker 1: trinity in the Bible. Doesn't happen, uh, join johanning Comma
[2:19:45] Speaker 1: as it's called, is the best thing you'll get. That's
[2:19:48] Speaker 1: the closest thing we're going to get to that. So anyways,
[2:19:52] Speaker 1: I agree with you, it doesn't happen. Now we do
[2:19:54] Speaker 1: see the Holy Spirit falling on Jesus uh and his
[2:19:57] Speaker 1: father talking to him at his baptism. That's an interesting thing.
[2:20:01] Speaker 1: But at the baptism, it doesn't say anything about a trinity, right,
[2:20:06] Speaker 1: Like you have to read read that into the text.
[2:20:08] Speaker 1: There are clearly three completely distinct individuals at the baptism,
[2:20:13] Speaker 1: So I wouldn't I wouldn't read the trinity into that.
[2:20:16] Speaker 1: And where in the world I just lost my superchat location.
[2:20:21] Speaker 1: I apologize, Oh shit, where am I now my window moved,
[2:20:27] Speaker 1: and now I'm screwed. I have no idea where I
[2:20:29] Speaker 1: left off. There we go, Thank you, Miko. Johannes Brahms says,
[2:20:35] Speaker 1: I was confused and afraid all the time until I
[2:20:38] Speaker 1: lost my God belief and left my religion. Is that
[2:20:40] Speaker 1: an argument for atheism?
[2:20:42] Speaker 8: Yeah?
[2:20:42] Speaker 1: You know. Christians wouldn't accept it as an argument for atheism,
[2:20:46] Speaker 1: but they would accept the inverse of that as an
[2:20:48] Speaker 1: argument for theism, which means that they can't be consistent
[2:20:51] Speaker 1: with their thought patterns and Alex thinking for the super
[2:20:55] Speaker 1: Test says I was raised in a Lutheran church, and
[2:20:57] Speaker 1: I called it diet Catholic because it's just as boring
[2:20:59] Speaker 1: but less Latin and less pretty churches. Actually, you're right,
[2:21:05] Speaker 1: calling Lutheran diet Catholic is is pretty good. It's like
[2:21:09] Speaker 1: Catholic light. I've heard people say.
[2:21:11] Speaker 2: I like that one.
[2:21:12] Speaker 1: Adele, my friend, thank you so much for the super Check.
[2:21:14] Speaker 1: Great to see you today, Dell says, Happy Friday, Justin.
[2:21:17] Speaker 1: I've been enjoying watching your exidangelical Bible studies with rock
[2:21:21] Speaker 1: Hard for Doug. I think you mean Sarah, but oh,
[2:21:24] Speaker 1: you mean with rock Hard for Doug. You and you
[2:21:26] Speaker 1: and rock hard for Doug and watch him together. Sorry
[2:21:28] Speaker 1: I misunderstood that, but I must say my favorite so
[2:21:32] Speaker 1: far is your study of Lot and his Daughter's absolutely hilarious.
[2:21:36] Speaker 1: That's a crazy story and I'll never understand why somebody
[2:21:40] Speaker 1: can read that story and one think that Lot was
[2:21:43] Speaker 1: the good guy, and number two think that the story
[2:21:45] Speaker 1: is plausible. It's the most implausible story ever told. But
[2:21:49] Speaker 1: if you go to I believe Second Peter, Second Peter
[2:21:53] Speaker 1: calls Lot a righteous man. He ain't no righteous man.
[2:21:56] Speaker 1: Jonathan Broms comes in again, says, to understand the metaphorical
[2:21:58] Speaker 1: meaning in the Exodus, you got to put on your
[2:22:00] Speaker 1: godglasses or drunk goggles. Same thing. Really, I agree with you.
[2:22:05] Speaker 1: It's the same thing. There's no difference. And crucifix me
[2:22:10] Speaker 1: great to see you today, Thank you for the super
[2:22:11] Speaker 1: Jest says nothing, or as Philbro would say, the essence
[2:22:14] Speaker 1: of being dissolves in the paradigm of non existence as
[2:22:18] Speaker 1: self contemplates the a temporal void. That's exactly. I couldn't
[2:22:23] Speaker 1: have said it better. That's the most Philbro thing, that's
[2:22:26] Speaker 1: the most Jordan Peterson thing I could I could have
[2:22:29] Speaker 1: heard all day. I appreciate that. It's just me says,
[2:22:32] Speaker 1: thank you for all you do. Justin well, thank you
[2:22:35] Speaker 1: for being here in support and the stream. And Tim says,
[2:22:37] Speaker 1: I went and saw a hypnotist show and I really
[2:22:40] Speaker 1: enjoyed it, and that made me suspicious. Actually, that should
[2:22:44] Speaker 1: make you suspicious. I've seen I think three of them
[2:22:46] Speaker 1: now and I didn't find any of them compelling. But
[2:22:49] Speaker 1: that's just me. I'm a tough nut to crack. Jim says, grats,
[2:22:55] Speaker 1: congrats on Patreon? Maybe grats on Patreon any plans to
[2:23:00] Speaker 1: spanned it? Also, which book is the least quotable book
[2:23:03] Speaker 1: you tend to go to on any argument? Boring no context? Okay,
[2:23:07] Speaker 1: good question. Well, I don't know what grats on Patreon means,
[2:23:12] Speaker 1: but the patreon is growing. So if you want to
[2:23:16] Speaker 1: support the channel and you don't want to subscribe on YouTube,
[2:23:19] Speaker 1: you can join the patreon and you still get access
[2:23:21] Speaker 1: to the cheat sheet, So big w there. Also, I
[2:23:27] Speaker 1: think the least quotable book in the Bible, there's some
[2:23:31] Speaker 1: tough ones, like the books that don't get quoted very
[2:23:33] Speaker 1: often typically are going to be like Ecclesiastes that they
[2:23:38] Speaker 1: don't get a whole lot of Love. Nobody likes quoting from,
[2:23:43] Speaker 1: like the Book of Numbers. Like for a lot of Christians,
[2:23:45] Speaker 1: they forget the Book of Numbers even exists. The Book
[2:23:49] Speaker 1: of Chronicles, like Christians are allergic to. They have no
[2:23:53] Speaker 1: idea what's in the Book of Chronicles. They think it's
[2:23:55] Speaker 1: just a giant list of lineages and they don't bother
[2:23:58] Speaker 1: reading it. Those are and to be fair, they qualify
[2:24:01] Speaker 1: as the most boring as well. So a good question,
[2:24:05] Speaker 1: and hail Vectron says there are only three types of
[2:24:08] Speaker 1: people in this world. Those who can count those who can't.
[2:24:13] Speaker 1: Suit you did there, You're the type they can't rock
[2:24:16] Speaker 1: hard for. Doug in the UK simmu ambif see you,
[2:24:23] Speaker 1: thank you for a super chat. I appreciate that carnage
[2:24:27] Speaker 1: is not a coming up again, Thank you. Carnage says,
[2:24:29] Speaker 1: I aspire to the Holy Spirit's advanced trolling of human
[2:24:34] Speaker 1: humanity through misinformation and fraudulents. Actually, okay, I didn't read that. Great,
[2:24:40] Speaker 1: but Carnage, this is actually a good point. If there's
[2:24:42] Speaker 1: a goal for us theists, it should be that we
[2:24:45] Speaker 1: can give the same type of delusion arguments towards Christianity
[2:24:50] Speaker 1: that they're giving to us, and we can drive as
[2:24:53] Speaker 1: much different disinformation into their world as they do attempt
[2:24:57] Speaker 1: to drive into our world. It's like fighting fire with fire,
[2:25:01] Speaker 1: you would say. A trip to Mean says between dad jokes, science, puns,
[2:25:04] Speaker 1: and can't forget huge grace. I love the community and
[2:25:07] Speaker 1: you set up here and there, you set up here
[2:25:11] Speaker 1: and their sense of humor, happy cooking. Justin, well, thank you, trip,
[2:25:15] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And I love funny things. I love
[2:25:19] Speaker 1: funny poems, funny songs of funny funny one liners. I
[2:25:23] Speaker 1: love jokes. They're a good time. Vanessa Jamison says, Hi,
[2:25:27] Speaker 1: justin believing that God feels like a one sided narcissy relationship.
[2:25:31] Speaker 1: Was the point. If I'm putting all the put in,
[2:25:33] Speaker 1: all the work, why do I need this God? You don't, Vanessa.
[2:25:36] Speaker 1: You've come to realize the truth that the God that
[2:25:40] Speaker 1: theoretically is on the other side isn't there. Right, You're
[2:25:43] Speaker 1: just you're talking to yourself. It might feel people, it
[2:25:46] Speaker 1: might make people feel good, but that doesn't mean that
[2:25:48] Speaker 1: the God is there. It just means that they think
[2:25:50] Speaker 1: that God is there. It's a it's a placebo effect. Unfortunately,
[2:25:54] Speaker 1: all r I'm gonna grab just a couple more, we'll
[2:25:55] Speaker 1: get our next guest in here. Captain Howdy says, enough
[2:25:58] Speaker 1: with nice guys, let's get cooking. Enough with nice guys,
[2:26:01] Speaker 1: let's get cooking. Well, you said it twice, so certainly
[2:26:04] Speaker 1: we're going to make that happen. We're going to do
[2:26:05] Speaker 1: the best of it. And Smelt says, here's to fix
[2:26:09] Speaker 1: your your yes or no problem. Matthew five thirty seven.
[2:26:12] Speaker 1: I assume this one that says, let your yespes and
[2:26:14] Speaker 1: your no b no. I'm probably wrong. Let me grab
[2:26:16] Speaker 1: Matthew five and bring up verse thirty seven and refresh
[2:26:21] Speaker 1: the memory. Says in verse thirty seven, all you need
[2:26:26] Speaker 1: to say is simply yes or no. Anything beyond this
[2:26:28] Speaker 1: comes from the evil one. Shit, that's actually a really
[2:26:32] Speaker 1: good one. This is roughly the same verse we were
[2:26:34] Speaker 1: talking about, but this is an NIV wording on taking OAHs.
[2:26:39] Speaker 1: I like the way the NIV worded it. It's really good.
[2:26:43] Speaker 1: All you need to say is yes or no. Anything
[2:26:45] Speaker 1: else unnecessary. I'm going to keep that in my little bag.
[2:26:49] Speaker 1: I like that one. One says can't hear the TikTok
[2:26:53] Speaker 1: guests when the you in the YouTube que no way
[2:26:57] Speaker 1: that can't be true. We had a TikTok guess up
[2:27:00] Speaker 1: here for a while and no one said anything. That's weird.
[2:27:03] Speaker 1: Let me know if that was the case when when
[2:27:05] Speaker 1: we had M two up here, Glam says fellow Ohio
[2:27:08] Speaker 1: wan transgender Cleveland are here. Will congratulations, good to see you,
[2:27:12] Speaker 1: says keep cooking, please, I don't miss an episode. Matt
[2:27:15] Speaker 1: Dela Honey shout out was awesome. Well, Glam, thank you
[2:27:17] Speaker 1: for watching. And hell yeah, sorry you have to live
[2:27:21] Speaker 1: in the mistake on the lake. But listen, we're all,
[2:27:23] Speaker 1: you know, Ohio's like the eighth most popular estate in
[2:27:26] Speaker 1: the US. There's a lot of people here. We're all
[2:27:28] Speaker 1: stuck here together. All right. I'm gonna grab three more
[2:27:33] Speaker 1: and I gotta get our guests in here. Jay says,
[2:27:35] Speaker 1: my Christian coworker is mad that atheists go to super
[2:27:38] Speaker 1: heaven where we all have condos that overlook heaven so
[2:27:41] Speaker 1: that we can look down on all the heaven peasants.
[2:27:45] Speaker 1: I don't know if that's what. I don't know if
[2:27:47] Speaker 1: that is the case, But listen, if there's super condos
[2:27:50] Speaker 1: in heaven, I'll go there. Stephen says, send lists to
[2:27:53] Speaker 1: the Almighty. Doug thank you, I appreciate that. And last
[2:27:57] Speaker 1: one from our friend Johnny Cakes. He says good. Teen
[2:27:59] Speaker 1: fifty seven Unclos nephew of Titus raises Jesus of Nazareth
[2:28:03] Speaker 1: from the dead and asks his punishment. Jesus says he's boiling,
[2:28:07] Speaker 1: and shit thoughts. Yes, this is a classic verse where
[2:28:12] Speaker 1: they hate Jesus so much that they depict him in
[2:28:16] Speaker 1: the after life. After life is literally boiling in feces.
[2:28:21] Speaker 1: That's they didn't like this guy. People have made the
[2:28:24] Speaker 1: claims that, like, listen, there's no Jesus in the Talmud,
[2:28:28] Speaker 1: the Jesus of Nazareth is in the Talmud, and they
[2:28:30] Speaker 1: don't like this guy at all. Let me get our
[2:28:33] Speaker 1: next guest in here. We're gonna grab Chris from TikTok
[2:28:37] Speaker 1: or Claris Clarice. Is it Clarice, Yes, all right, welcome
[2:28:41] Speaker 1: in Clarice. Claris. Are you at least eighteen and are
[2:28:45] Speaker 1: you a believer in God?
[2:28:49] Speaker 12: I am at least eighteen, And the statement I have
[2:28:54] Speaker 12: to make will tell you whether I'm a believer in God.
[2:28:59] Speaker 12: I guess you would might say the statement I wanted
[2:29:04] Speaker 12: to make was I have a brother that passed away
[2:29:07] Speaker 12: a while back, and he has he comes back to
[2:29:12] Speaker 12: give me information, and many people have seen this that
[2:29:17] Speaker 12: I know. And he was a very much a non
[2:29:21] Speaker 12: believer when he was alive. He didn't want to hear
[2:29:25] Speaker 12: anything about it. You're buried six feet under dirt thrown
[2:29:29] Speaker 12: on your face. He was just very much against it.
[2:29:33] Speaker 12: He came back one time and there was other people
[2:29:36] Speaker 12: there with me at the time, and he apologized, and
[2:29:40] Speaker 12: I asked him apologize for what, and he said, I
[2:29:45] Speaker 12: hope my stupidity things that came out of my mouth
[2:29:52] Speaker 12: didn't affect you at all, because he the way he
[2:29:56] Speaker 12: talked about religion and things. Now, I believe there's a
[2:30:01] Speaker 12: difference between religion and spirituality.
[2:30:04] Speaker 1: I guess I'm still saws. Do you believe in God
[2:30:05] Speaker 1: or not?
[2:30:08] Speaker 12: Well, according to my brother's information, which is all I'm
[2:30:13] Speaker 12: calling to speak about, is the fact that he didn't
[2:30:17] Speaker 12: use the word God. First of all, he used a
[2:30:20] Speaker 12: different term. But the way he described it was that
[2:30:26] Speaker 12: our energy is frequency and vibration. And if you want
[2:30:33] Speaker 12: to call dimensional levels, there's ten different dimensional levels, such
[2:30:42] Speaker 12: a like we're three dimensional going into fourth and when
[2:30:48] Speaker 12: you get to a certain dimension, you become light that's
[2:30:51] Speaker 12: why the Bible supposedly refers to God as light. He said, Well,
[2:31:00] Speaker 12: light is the as you as a frequency and vibration
[2:31:04] Speaker 12: gets higher it light is in the higher vibration and
[2:31:11] Speaker 12: frequency range.
[2:31:13] Speaker 1: What do you think light is made up? What separates
[2:31:15] Speaker 1: light save from my physical body?
[2:31:19] Speaker 12: I believe what I believe because I have passed away
[2:31:23] Speaker 12: and been revived is our energy is separate actually from
[2:31:29] Speaker 12: our body, where the body is just a shell that
[2:31:31] Speaker 12: we are in.
[2:31:33] Speaker 1: Right, But light, what do you think is light is
[2:31:35] Speaker 1: made out of?
[2:31:39] Speaker 12: I believe it's made out of I don't know, protons, neutrons.
[2:31:45] Speaker 4: I'm not.
[2:31:48] Speaker 12: I'm not quite sure what exactly light is made of.
[2:31:51] Speaker 4: I just.
[2:31:54] Speaker 1: Higher Okay, Bertram, thank you for the fireworks, and Parker,
[2:31:58] Speaker 1: thank you for the star map I really appreciate. And
[2:32:00] Speaker 1: Sharon Leu, thank you for the live pain. So light
[2:32:04] Speaker 1: is made up of photons, right, and photons are like
[2:32:07] Speaker 1: a distinct thing in the world. So if we were
[2:32:11] Speaker 1: made up of light, we would have to be made
[2:32:14] Speaker 1: up of photons. But if we're made at photons, that
[2:32:18] Speaker 1: means we would be literally moving at the speed of light,
[2:32:22] Speaker 1: which means like if we become beings of light, it
[2:32:25] Speaker 1: just means that, like we have to be moving at
[2:32:29] Speaker 1: the speed of light all the time. And I don't understand,
[2:32:33] Speaker 1: like if there's a boundary, like how many photons do
[2:32:36] Speaker 1: we become? Do we become a trillion photons or like
[2:32:39] Speaker 1: ten trillion or one hundred, Like how big is the
[2:32:42] Speaker 1: sack of photons?
[2:32:44] Speaker 12: I'm not necessarily saying light as we become light. I'm
[2:32:49] Speaker 12: saying that, I'm saying that we do not enter into
[2:32:56] Speaker 12: this body shell at dimensional levels.
[2:33:02] Speaker 1: What do you think of dimension is?
[2:33:04] Speaker 12: It's an energy, We're an energy.
[2:33:07] Speaker 1: That's not what a dimension is, my friend. A dimension,
[2:33:10] Speaker 1: A dimension is a different space.
[2:33:12] Speaker 12: It's a dimension is a different there could be a
[2:33:18] Speaker 12: different time in the same it's a different space and time.
[2:33:24] Speaker 1: Right, dimensions are in space. The first three dimensions are
[2:33:28] Speaker 1: in space, right, get correct? Okay, And theoretically the fourth
[2:33:33] Speaker 1: dimension is time.
[2:33:34] Speaker 8: Right.
[2:33:36] Speaker 12: Well, according to my brother, time is not is a
[2:33:40] Speaker 12: man made factor to as a point of reference that
[2:33:45] Speaker 12: all time actually is is going on all the time.
[2:33:49] Speaker 12: There's there is no time factor. That's kind of a
[2:33:55] Speaker 12: a point of reference for us.
[2:33:58] Speaker 1: Why I don't know what time factory means.
[2:34:00] Speaker 12: I know what time is, So every dimension is going
[2:34:03] Speaker 12: on at the same time.
[2:34:08] Speaker 1: Yes, I think all the dimensions exist concurrently. We agree there, right, okay, right, so,
[2:34:14] Speaker 1: and when you say dimensions, I don't think you and
[2:34:17] Speaker 1: I have the same definition of dimension, like a dimension
[2:34:21] Speaker 1: would be like left and right, up and down, forward
[2:34:27] Speaker 1: and backwards.
[2:34:28] Speaker 12: Right, Okay. My brother was quite a humorous person, and
[2:34:34] Speaker 12: he said to me and that same visit, he goes, oh,
[2:34:37] Speaker 12: by the way, when you see on TV ghosts floating
[2:34:41] Speaker 12: like two feet above ground, you know, he says, we're
[2:34:45] Speaker 12: not floating above ground. That's our that's our floor in
[2:34:49] Speaker 12: this dimension. That's our floor space in this dimension.
[2:34:52] Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, you believe that there is an alternative dimension
[2:34:55] Speaker 1: or alternative universe that they live in that we just
[2:34:59] Speaker 1: can't see. Right.
[2:35:01] Speaker 12: Well, I happened to have passed away once and I
[2:35:07] Speaker 12: went into that dimensional space, believe it or not.
[2:35:11] Speaker 1: I believe that I've passed away twice and it was
[2:35:14] Speaker 1: nothing for me.
[2:35:15] Speaker 12: It was just blackness. Oh, it was just blackness.
[2:35:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, woke up. I woke up later somewhere else. That
[2:35:21] Speaker 1: was it.
[2:35:23] Speaker 12: Oh Well, I basically was in a different space, which
[2:35:29] Speaker 12: I can see why people wouldn't be able to know
[2:35:33] Speaker 12: that while they're in this body on this planet, because
[2:35:36] Speaker 12: they'd be jumping off cliffs to get there. Because it's
[2:35:39] Speaker 12: actually a very harmonious, very positive realm. I guess you'd
[2:35:45] Speaker 12: call it.
[2:35:45] Speaker 1: Clarissa, how do you differentiate between your spiritual experiences and say,
[2:35:53] Speaker 1: having a hallucination.
[2:35:57] Speaker 12: And having a hallucination, Well, I was physically dead, there
[2:36:06] Speaker 12: were no body. Uh, it'd be kind of hard to
[2:36:10] Speaker 12: hallucinate if your just you know, your heart stops and
[2:36:14] Speaker 12: you're no longer.
[2:36:15] Speaker 1: Your brain stays active or as much as like a
[2:36:18] Speaker 1: half hour after you're clinically dead.
[2:36:22] Speaker 12: Well, that's interesting to know.
[2:36:26] Speaker 8: What what I what?
[2:36:27] Speaker 12: I kind of just like I said, I I, I
[2:36:31] Speaker 12: don't necessarily know if you would call it a god.
[2:36:35] Speaker 12: But the way my brother described, which is like I said,
[2:36:38] Speaker 12: he was very anti religious, said that if he used
[2:36:42] Speaker 12: as an example, our energy increases in in our vibration
[2:36:49] Speaker 12: and our frequency up to the state level.
[2:36:53] Speaker 1: But can't sorry interrupt you, but you can't have energy
[2:36:57] Speaker 1: without physical matter. Like energy is a property of physical stuff. Right,
[2:37:03] Speaker 1: So if if you're saying that your your brother, and
[2:37:06] Speaker 1: when we passed away, that we are no longer made
[2:37:09] Speaker 1: of physical stuff, that means we don't have any energy.
[2:37:13] Speaker 12: No are what let's put it, Okay, My experience was
[2:37:19] Speaker 12: the who I am, what I think, what I what
[2:37:22] Speaker 12: you know? And all that was just outside this body
[2:37:26] Speaker 12: that I'm in, but was physical or instead of my
[2:37:32] Speaker 12: body was physical, but I was.
[2:37:36] Speaker 1: What is the.
[2:37:40] Speaker 12: Thing that makes this move? I was out, I stepped,
[2:37:44] Speaker 12: I just slid over to like next to this body
[2:37:48] Speaker 12: and was looking at it instead of being in it.
[2:37:53] Speaker 1: Right. But what I'm saying is if you're if you're
[2:37:56] Speaker 1: now completely immaterial, you leave your body and you're completely immaterial,
[2:38:02] Speaker 1: then you you no longer have energy.
[2:38:07] Speaker 12: Well, the material part on the body does. I'm not
[2:38:11] Speaker 12: saying that whatever leaves this body, which is what you
[2:38:16] Speaker 12: think when you step outside of it. First of all,
[2:38:22] Speaker 12: the visual, let's put it that way, is way more
[2:38:26] Speaker 12: detailed because our physical eyes can't see certain color spectrums
[2:38:32] Speaker 12: and a very very high definition because our eyes are limited.
[2:38:38] Speaker 12: Through our eyes what we can see. There's actually so
[2:38:42] Speaker 12: much out there that our physical bodies can't experience because
[2:38:46] Speaker 12: of limitations on our body.
[2:38:48] Speaker 1: Now I hear what you're saying. What I'm saying, though,
[2:38:51] Speaker 1: is that if you're saying, we leave our body and
[2:38:53] Speaker 1: now we have an immaterial existence. Then that existence can't
[2:38:59] Speaker 1: be vibrations or energy because those things need material.
[2:39:05] Speaker 12: I didn't say it became a material just the energy
[2:39:09] Speaker 12: isn't inside this anymore. It's it's outside them. It's it's
[2:39:13] Speaker 12: transferred out.
[2:39:15] Speaker 1: Of energy isn't a thing. Energy is not a stuff
[2:39:19] Speaker 1: if the energy is a property of.
[2:39:20] Speaker 12: That right, it has mass and weight energy, it's not.
[2:39:29] Speaker 12: Sort of like radio waves, it doesn't mean they don't exist.
[2:39:32] Speaker 12: We can't see them, but they still have a mass
[2:39:35] Speaker 12: and weight.
[2:39:36] Speaker 1: We agree to yes on that. We agree, yes, radio
[2:39:39] Speaker 1: waves do exist, and I would say they exist in
[2:39:43] Speaker 1: the physical world. The reason why we can't see them
[2:39:46] Speaker 1: is not because they don't have a physical presence. It's
[2:39:49] Speaker 1: because they're so small that we can't see it. But
[2:39:52] Speaker 1: if you get the right technology, you can't see it
[2:39:54] Speaker 1: like you can see with the right technology you can
[2:39:56] Speaker 1: see an electron.
[2:39:59] Speaker 12: Well.
[2:40:00] Speaker 1: I know.
[2:40:00] Speaker 12: My brother says that when I can physically see him,
[2:40:06] Speaker 12: it actually tires him out because he has to lower
[2:40:11] Speaker 12: himself to the frequency and vibration so I can physically
[2:40:16] Speaker 12: see his presence in the room he has. It's sort
[2:40:22] Speaker 12: of like when you're talking to a two year old.
[2:40:24] Speaker 12: You kind of got to lower yourself to the level
[2:40:28] Speaker 12: of a two year old to communicate.
[2:40:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear what you're saying, but like that doesn't
[2:40:33] Speaker 1: make sense either. The reason why we get tired isau
[2:40:36] Speaker 1: we have like a build up of lactic acid, and
[2:40:38] Speaker 1: that there's energy within our physical body that we have
[2:40:42] Speaker 1: a whole series of processes we have to engage in
[2:40:44] Speaker 1: and we can't engage in those things endlessly. But if
[2:40:47] Speaker 1: you're no longer bound by a physical body, there's no
[2:40:49] Speaker 1: reason why you would have anything that would make you tired.
[2:40:54] Speaker 12: Well, it's it's a are the energy or what keeps
[2:41:00] Speaker 12: this body going is not It has mass and weight,
[2:41:04] Speaker 12: just like thought if you think something that actually gets
[2:41:07] Speaker 12: put out there, and that's why people can feel like,
[2:41:13] Speaker 12: say someone's in a bad mood there and thoughts thoughts
[2:41:18] Speaker 12: have are just like radio waves, they have a mass
[2:41:21] Speaker 12: and weight to it.
[2:41:23] Speaker 1: I don't believe that's the case at all, but I
[2:41:26] Speaker 1: in fact, I would say that science would vehemently disagree
[2:41:29] Speaker 1: with that.
[2:41:31] Speaker 12: Well, the reason I wanted his conversation is just to
[2:41:36] Speaker 12: put out there I'm a science peron. I'm more science minded.
[2:41:41] Speaker 12: You've got to be able to prove everything to me,
[2:41:43] Speaker 12: you know, touch it, feel it, test it, and all
[2:41:45] Speaker 12: that stuff. That's that's who I am, and as I
[2:41:51] Speaker 12: know is my brother came back apologized for being such
[2:41:55] Speaker 12: an anti spiritual person and hope it didn't affect me.
[2:41:59] Speaker 12: And he said, people want to know what the purpose
[2:42:02] Speaker 12: of life, what our purpose of life is, and he
[2:42:05] Speaker 12: said everything that is an existence that has a frequency
[2:42:09] Speaker 12: and vibration is all trying to move to become one
[2:42:15] Speaker 12: unified point, which is what would be the quote god level,
[2:42:21] Speaker 12: I guess you would call it, to become pure. Our
[2:42:25] Speaker 12: frequency and energy and vibration all become one single point
[2:42:30] Speaker 12: of positive, loving point of perfection. Is what the direction
[2:42:41] Speaker 12: of everything that is quote living or has a soul,
[2:42:44] Speaker 12: or however you want to put it, is to become
[2:42:47] Speaker 12: one perfect point of existence. What Well, he didn't go
[2:42:56] Speaker 12: into that much detail. He just said it was the
[2:42:59] Speaker 12: highest level of frequency and vibration that exists, and that
[2:43:05] Speaker 12: was that was what he said. So I don't know
[2:43:09] Speaker 12: if that bring.
[2:43:10] Speaker 1: The conversation full circle, because I think we went down
[2:43:13] Speaker 1: this rabbit trail because all they wanted to know is
[2:43:15] Speaker 1: if you believe in a god? Do you believe in
[2:43:17] Speaker 1: a god?
[2:43:18] Speaker 12: I believe there is a higher energy level that is
[2:43:23] Speaker 12: above the others, that the everything else that we're all
[2:43:29] Speaker 12: trying to work our way towards becoming one singular point
[2:43:33] Speaker 12: of perfection.
[2:43:38] Speaker 1: All we'll try to keep track of this conversation. So
[2:43:41] Speaker 1: the question is I'm is God real and it needs
[2:43:46] Speaker 1: I just need a yes, no, or maybe.
[2:43:49] Speaker 12: I believe God if you want to use the term
[2:43:52] Speaker 12: God is real because a frequency and vibration level not
[2:44:00] Speaker 12: necessarily an entity that's you know, overall control of everything.
[2:44:09] Speaker 1: Because we have answer no, there's no God. So your Buddhists.
[2:44:14] Speaker 12: I actually I believe much more in the Buddhists, because
[2:44:19] Speaker 12: what the Buddhists believe is that Jesus, first of all,
[2:44:23] Speaker 12: it was not it's a way of life, it's not
[2:44:27] Speaker 12: a religion. It's I believe Jesus was put on this planet.
[2:44:31] Speaker 12: He was here to show that you can live a
[2:44:34] Speaker 12: good life and and on this planet you can make
[2:44:37] Speaker 12: good choices. And I believe he was to be an
[2:44:40] Speaker 12: example of how we should try to get, you know,
[2:44:45] Speaker 12: work with each other on this planet, and that you
[2:44:49] Speaker 12: can make good choices and on this planet. I don't
[2:44:54] Speaker 12: believe he was necessarily God manifested on this planet because
[2:45:02] Speaker 12: there's been actually many things.
[2:45:05] Speaker 1: It turns out that we actually agree. You don't believe
[2:45:08] Speaker 1: in a god like a creator of all things that's
[2:45:12] Speaker 1: you know, wants people to worship it, or it is
[2:45:15] Speaker 1: going to throw you into hell or any nonsense. So
[2:45:17] Speaker 1: what it turns out to be that we actually do agree.
[2:45:20] Speaker 1: We agreed that there's no God. So I got to
[2:45:23] Speaker 1: move on to Jesus.
[2:45:24] Speaker 12: He didn't come here to be worshiped. He came here
[2:45:26] Speaker 12: to be an example of how a human can be
[2:45:29] Speaker 12: on this planet and still make good choices and be
[2:45:33] Speaker 12: a good person. He would didn't come here to get
[2:45:35] Speaker 12: followers and have people bow down and pray and all
[2:45:38] Speaker 12: that stuff.
[2:45:39] Speaker 1: He just.
[2:45:41] Speaker 12: Used his talents while he was here.
[2:45:44] Speaker 1: And he did say in John chapter four that the
[2:45:47] Speaker 1: Father desires to be worshiped in spirit and truth. And
[2:45:50] Speaker 1: then he also said that if you've seen me, you've
[2:45:52] Speaker 1: seen the Father, which then by connection you would say
[2:45:56] Speaker 1: that Jesus did say that he needed to be worshiped.
[2:45:59] Speaker 1: But I don't want to derail the conversation. It sounds
[2:46:02] Speaker 1: to me like more or less we agree.
[2:46:04] Speaker 4: That there isn't like a god.
[2:46:07] Speaker 1: I know we agree there too. Clari, you're you're a sweetheart.
[2:46:13] Speaker 1: Thanks for coming to chat with me.
[2:46:15] Speaker 12: Thank you for having the conversation.
[2:46:19] Speaker 1: Best of luck on your journey.
[2:46:20] Speaker 12: Yeah's information out there. You have a good day. I will.
[2:46:27] Speaker 4: Bye bye.
[2:46:28] Speaker 1: Well, that was an unexpected conversation, but she was a sweetheart.
[2:46:33] Speaker 1: Best of luck to her. I hope she does well.
[2:46:36] Speaker 1: We grab a couple of super chats and we'll get
[2:46:37] Speaker 1: our get our next uh.
[2:46:41] Speaker 4: Get.
[2:46:42] Speaker 1: Guess Dania might poop sent poop. Thanks Dan Marcus. The
[2:46:47] Speaker 1: next time I say that I'm fat, I'm blaming it
[2:46:49] Speaker 1: on seven densities I should have I shouldn't have ate
[2:46:52] Speaker 1: as much during throughout the week. I'm going to start
[2:46:55] Speaker 1: doing that as well. It's not me, guys. The food
[2:46:59] Speaker 1: that I'm using was in the seventh density. I should
[2:47:01] Speaker 1: have got food in the first density. And Dan, I
[2:47:04] Speaker 1: do you agree with you? Word Sally it is word salads,
[2:47:07] Speaker 1: not feeling. It's not I love a good salad. Not
[2:47:10] Speaker 1: a fan of word salad though, that's not my flavor.
[2:47:13] Speaker 1: Jim says, yeah, but hey, am my favorite thing. Clearius
[2:47:18] Speaker 1: was sweet. Friends, she was sweet. Santa Bark says, here
[2:47:21] Speaker 1: are a few bucks to buy some sour kraut and
[2:47:23] Speaker 1: rye bread to help you cook this Ruben. Oh, I
[2:47:28] Speaker 1: appreciate that, And yes, I could definitely go for some
[2:47:31] Speaker 1: sour kraut and rye bread on a Ruben. I would
[2:47:34] Speaker 1: eat that. Yeah, Phil says, pull shift equals global deluge.
[2:47:39] Speaker 1: So Noah's ark was a giant electromagnetic Apparently. Apparently, if
[2:47:44] Speaker 1: I pressed enough on the book a Mormon guy, I
[2:47:46] Speaker 1: suspect he would have committed to a lot of different
[2:47:49] Speaker 1: conspiracy theories, a lot of them. Saint Brush says, Man,
[2:47:53] Speaker 1: this guy is a real Moroni. That's a good joke,
[2:47:56] Speaker 1: Saint Brush. I do appreciate that. That's good use of words,
[2:47:59] Speaker 1: right there. I see what you did. Marcus coming in
[2:48:03] Speaker 1: against his personal growth not equal to physical expansion, foolish argument. Yes,
[2:48:07] Speaker 1: I agree, Yeah, yeah, growing physically and even spiritually or
[2:48:13] Speaker 1: mentally and emotionally not the same as expanding, justas is
[2:48:17] Speaker 1: guests lamanite. His apologetics are lame. You know what we
[2:48:26] Speaker 1: haven't heard in a long time is the really bad
[2:48:29] Speaker 1: laminin argument that protein laminin. I mean, it'll come back,
[2:48:32] Speaker 1: I'm sure it will, but it's been gone for a while.
[2:48:36] Speaker 1: Fleck says, I'd love to know if Reuben thinks Lamanites
[2:48:40] Speaker 1: were cursed with a skin of blackness for having turned
[2:48:45] Speaker 1: against Gott. Yeah, we should have gone to second five
[2:48:48] Speaker 1: and talked about racism, but he was so out there
[2:48:51] Speaker 1: I would have guessed that he would said it's a
[2:48:54] Speaker 1: metaphor or some other nonsense, like he wasn't interested in
[2:48:58] Speaker 1: engaging in the book honestly. Pepper says, Mormon indoctrination at
[2:49:01] Speaker 1: its finest. I call bs that he's a recent convert
[2:49:04] Speaker 1: slinging craziness at eighty eight miles per hour. I know
[2:49:08] Speaker 1: he does not sound like someone who recently came into
[2:49:11] Speaker 1: the Book of Mormon. This is a guy who already
[2:49:13] Speaker 1: knows some of the stories, knows that they're problematic, and
[2:49:16] Speaker 1: knows that he has the metaphor, you know, make them
[2:49:18] Speaker 1: all metaphors. Marcus comes in again, thank you so much.
[2:49:21] Speaker 1: As my belly, however, is expanding. Damn those densities. Shout
[2:49:25] Speaker 1: out to Homie in the chat that I stole that
[2:49:27] Speaker 1: joke from Look that Look at this guy giving credit
[2:49:30] Speaker 1: for credit.
[2:49:31] Speaker 8: To do big w.
[2:49:34] Speaker 1: And Dan says Cia has intel on Adam and Eve.
[2:49:37] Speaker 1: That dang Patriot act. I know could that was that
[2:49:41] Speaker 1: was a conspiracy theory that I didn't want to get
[2:49:43] Speaker 1: on during the live stream, but I would love to
[2:49:46] Speaker 1: know more about the CIA hiding Adam and Eve from us.
[2:49:55] Speaker 1: Phil says pull shift equals what a stripper does when
[2:49:58] Speaker 1: you slide her A twenty. I can't agree with that definition.
[2:50:08] Speaker 1: And Banging out with says he's confusing magnetic pole shifts
[2:50:11] Speaker 1: with Earth's crust displacement, which isn't real. I know the
[2:50:14] Speaker 1: magnetic poles will shift, and it doesn't mean that the land,
[2:50:17] Speaker 1: masses or the water is gonna change. That's not what
[2:50:20] Speaker 1: that means. It's just ridiculous, ridiculous. And Josh, my friend
[2:50:24] Speaker 1: thinking for the super test, says, they say you are
[2:50:26] Speaker 1: what you eat. Did guests have pathetic failure for breakfast today?
[2:50:33] Speaker 2: I think that is the case.
[2:50:34] Speaker 1: I think that is the case. And Sir, since I
[2:50:37] Speaker 1: recently watched a video with you and Rabbi Singer, I
[2:50:40] Speaker 1: really enjoyed watching. Now watched the Rabbi's channel. The Rabbi
[2:50:44] Speaker 1: can cook Hell Yes, or a game. Rabbi Tovia is amazing.
[2:50:46] Speaker 1: We're actually we're working on We're gonna be getting another
[2:50:50] Speaker 1: video together, so we're working on it. We're working on it.
[2:50:54] Speaker 1: We've just been busy. It's just me says, thanks for
[2:50:56] Speaker 1: helping me completely deconstruct. Well, shit, that's what we're here for.
[2:51:00] Speaker 1: We're glad to hear it. Thank you for letting us know.
[2:51:02] Speaker 1: And Onix says, taking a shower, skip me in the
[2:51:05] Speaker 1: queue till the end. No worries, Onix, no worries. We
[2:51:08] Speaker 1: can take care of that. And Beev says, praise Doug Justin.
[2:51:11] Speaker 1: You gave me hope in humanity. Keep it up. You
[2:51:13] Speaker 1: know what, We've had some pretty decent guests today, Believe
[2:51:17] Speaker 1: it or not. Adam says, the philbrow of theseus is
[2:51:20] Speaker 1: still the same sophist when all of its parts have
[2:51:23] Speaker 1: been switched out. Actually, that is the case, and that
[2:51:27] Speaker 1: explains what all philbros are the same? All right? Last
[2:51:29] Speaker 1: one from our friend Scottie says, if believers are expanding
[2:51:33] Speaker 1: and adding to their understanding, then why are they holding
[2:51:37] Speaker 1: onto two thousand year old texts? Crazy but true. If
[2:51:43] Speaker 1: people are growing and learning and expanding, so called expanding,
[2:51:47] Speaker 1: then why are they not getting better texts or better
[2:51:51] Speaker 1: understanding of the text and why their understanding?
[2:51:54] Speaker 4: All?
[2:51:54] Speaker 1: I agree, we're going to get Mellon into the conversation.
[2:52:00] Speaker 1: Melan's been in the queue for a bit here, so Melan,
[2:52:03] Speaker 1: Welcome in, Melan, Melan, Melan. Okay, Melon's not with us apparently,
[2:52:18] Speaker 1: so we'll we'll grab the next one. Let's grab Michael.
[2:52:25] Speaker 1: Welcome in. Michael. Hello Michael. Are you at least eighteen?
[2:52:32] Speaker 1: And do you believe in some kind of a god?
[2:52:38] Speaker 3: Yes?
[2:52:38] Speaker 6: And yes?
[2:52:39] Speaker 1: Cool? And are you capable of answering yes or no questions?
[2:52:45] Speaker 6: Yes, I am cool.
[2:52:46] Speaker 1: What kind of God do you believe in?
[2:52:51] Speaker 6: I believe in God. I guess you could say mostly
[2:52:53] Speaker 6: I don't have a religion, but I mostly identify with
[2:52:56] Speaker 6: the Christian God.
[2:52:57] Speaker 1: Okay, so you believe in the Christian God?
[2:53:00] Speaker 3: Yes?
[2:53:01] Speaker 8: Cool.
[2:53:02] Speaker 1: What would be the best evidence or argument for the
[2:53:04] Speaker 1: Christian God being real?
[2:53:08] Speaker 6: My evidence would be I have a few, I guess,
[2:53:12] Speaker 6: some personal experiences. But you said those are I guess biased,
[2:53:17] Speaker 6: But well that's biased.
[2:53:19] Speaker 1: I mean they are biased. I just think they're worthless.
[2:53:22] Speaker 1: They don't actually get you the truth.
[2:53:26] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[2:53:26] Speaker 1: So aside from that, I think reasons that have given
[2:53:29] Speaker 1: me that prove my God is an imaginary is why
[2:53:32] Speaker 1: do elite people or like celebrities things like that? Why
[2:53:39] Speaker 1: did they go so out of their way to disgrace
[2:53:43] Speaker 1: the Christian God and worship Satan. They don't.
[2:53:52] Speaker 6: I mean, there's there's proof, there's for example, Yeah, so
[2:53:58] Speaker 6: the have you heard about the clothing brand Balentciaga.
[2:54:02] Speaker 1: No. Now, keep in mind what I said was not
[2:54:06] Speaker 1: that nobody ever has, not, that it never happened. What
[2:54:09] Speaker 1: I'm saying is, by and large, famious people don't go
[2:54:11] Speaker 1: out of the way to be anti God or Satanic.
[2:54:14] Speaker 1: That's silly a lot of people do.
[2:54:17] Speaker 6: I mean, what have you heard of saturn worship?
[2:54:20] Speaker 1: Saturn is not Satan. Saturn is a member of Roman pantheon.
[2:54:26] Speaker 6: I know you're dismissing it, but those are my reasons
[2:54:29] Speaker 6: why my God is an imaginary because why would people
[2:54:32] Speaker 6: go out of their way to disgrace the image of
[2:54:35] Speaker 6: Jesus or why would they go because Chany is toxic.
[2:54:41] Speaker 6: But they're so in that sense though they're giving into
[2:54:44] Speaker 6: Christianity because they worship Satan.
[2:54:46] Speaker 1: They're not giving in the Christianity because they don't believe
[2:54:48] Speaker 1: in Satan. If you look through the doctrines at the
[2:54:51] Speaker 1: Satanic Temple, they don't believe in Satan. They're doing it
[2:54:54] Speaker 1: to make fun of Christians.
[2:54:58] Speaker 6: I can you cite your sources, because I don't think
[2:55:02] Speaker 6: that's true. And they they're the worshiping an evil entity.
[2:55:07] Speaker 1: No, they don't, Okay. The Satan Temple does not believe
[2:55:12] Speaker 1: Satan is real.
[2:55:15] Speaker 6: So do you believe Satan is real?
[2:55:17] Speaker 4: No?
[2:55:18] Speaker 6: Okay? So what what would be I guess your answer
[2:55:23] Speaker 6: to why people worship the devil and they don't? I
[2:55:26] Speaker 6: guess Church of Satan aside, I would.
[2:55:30] Speaker 1: Say if there if there were people that worship the devil,
[2:55:32] Speaker 1: and I'm sure there's a couple of them, but if
[2:55:35] Speaker 1: there were people actually did, It's meaningless. It's like asking
[2:55:37] Speaker 1: why are there Muslims, why are their Hindus? Because people
[2:55:41] Speaker 1: believe in nonsensical stuff. It's the same thing, why are
[2:55:43] Speaker 1: the Christians because people believe in nonsensical stuff. It's it's
[2:55:46] Speaker 1: a irrelevant question. It's not the same though. It's not
[2:55:50] Speaker 1: because the devil. They are worshiping fake things.
[2:55:53] Speaker 6: I mean Muslims, Christians. Yeah, they're worshiping technically I guess,
[2:55:57] Speaker 6: different gods. But it's a good, higher good.
[2:56:02] Speaker 1: Though I disagree the devil is opposite of that. No,
[2:56:05] Speaker 1: I disagree. The people worshiping the devil typically don't think
[2:56:08] Speaker 1: that he's bad. That's why they're worshiping them. So you
[2:56:11] Speaker 1: agree though, that there are people that worship the devil
[2:56:14] Speaker 1: and they're Satanists. I agree that there's like a couple
[2:56:17] Speaker 1: of them. The majority of people that are considered Satanists
[2:56:22] Speaker 1: are doing it to mock you. They don't believe Satan's real.
[2:56:28] Speaker 6: So you think that because of that, they're they're going
[2:56:32] Speaker 6: out of their way doing all of this just to
[2:56:34] Speaker 6: prove God isn't real, like they're giving him that much attention.
[2:56:38] Speaker 1: They're not doing it to disprove God. They're doing it
[2:56:40] Speaker 1: to make fun of you. Specifically, they're doing it to
[2:56:44] Speaker 1: make fun of Christians because we live in a country
[2:56:47] Speaker 1: full of Christians that want to force their religion on you.
[2:56:54] Speaker 1: That's why they do it.
[2:57:00] Speaker 6: Okay, So I guess I don't know if you had seen,
[2:57:03] Speaker 6: but so Lady Gaga, there was a controversy she had
[2:57:07] Speaker 6: done a.
[2:57:08] Speaker 1: No one cares people, Michael, Michael, no one cares, No
[2:57:17] Speaker 1: one cares. Well, I'm just saying, why why did Why
[2:57:19] Speaker 1: do they? Why did they? Michael? She's making fun of
[2:57:23] Speaker 1: you Christians because you're delusional and you want your delusions
[2:57:28] Speaker 1: to be the law. That's why we do it, that's
[2:57:30] Speaker 1: why make fun of you.
[2:57:32] Speaker 6: So with that logic, why wouldn't she do that to
[2:57:35] Speaker 6: let's say, Muslims.
[2:57:37] Speaker 1: Because she didn't live in a Muslim country, and if
[2:57:39] Speaker 1: she did, she'd be executed. That's why. Well, America, I mean,
[2:57:43] Speaker 1: is a Muslim country. It certainly is not.
[2:57:47] Speaker 6: There's there's a great group of Muslim people here.
[2:57:49] Speaker 1: So there are people here. We are not a Muslim country.
[2:57:53] Speaker 1: We don't have Sharia law.
[2:57:55] Speaker 6: Okay, But okay, but why wouldn't she mock them because she.
[2:57:59] Speaker 1: Lives in a she lives in a country full of Christians.
[2:58:03] Speaker 1: Muslims aren't knocking on her door. Muslims aren't leaving Bible
[2:58:07] Speaker 1: tracks at her concert, Muslims aren't telling people that you're
[2:58:13] Speaker 1: going to hell if you don't believe what we believe. Now,
[2:58:15] Speaker 1: they do that in other places, but not so much here.
[2:58:20] Speaker 6: Okay, So I mean you can say that, but there
[2:58:23] Speaker 6: are other religions in this country. Her just specifically attacking
[2:58:28] Speaker 6: the Christian community makes it seem like she's anti Christian.
[2:58:31] Speaker 1: Yes, and she's allowed to be. If you're living in
[2:58:33] Speaker 1: a country where the majority people are Christian and you
[2:58:36] Speaker 1: think Christians are insufferable, you're allowed to be anti Christian.
[2:58:40] Speaker 1: If you're living in a majority Muslim country and you
[2:58:43] Speaker 1: think Muslims are insufferable, you can be anti Muslim. You
[2:58:48] Speaker 1: have the freedom to be against the predominant religion of
[2:58:52] Speaker 1: your country, no matter what that religion is. That's why
[2:58:54] Speaker 1: she's doing it.
[2:58:55] Speaker 6: Okay, but that's right. But if God is imaginary, why
[2:58:57] Speaker 6: are they going out of their way to worship entities
[2:59:00] Speaker 6: that are mentioned in.
[2:59:01] Speaker 1: They are worshiping those entities?
[2:59:04] Speaker 6: They finished, like, did you hear my full question?
[2:59:07] Speaker 1: Let's so we'll try this again. Lady Gaga does not
[2:59:12] Speaker 1: believe that Satan exists, nor does she worship Satan. Even
[2:59:16] Speaker 1: if she did, it would be utter meaningless. It doesn't
[2:59:21] Speaker 1: mean anything. It would be utterly meaningless. It doesn't matter.
[2:59:25] Speaker 1: It does not matter. It does not matter what one
[2:59:28] Speaker 1: celebrity believes in. It doesn't matter. It's meaningless. There are
[2:59:31] Speaker 1: celebrities that believe there are celebrities that believe in uh scientology.
[2:59:38] Speaker 1: That the beliefs of celebrities is irrelevant to truth. This
[2:59:42] Speaker 1: is you can't believe this is a good argument, Michael,
[2:59:45] Speaker 1: I I.
[2:59:45] Speaker 6: Do, because I'm not talking about their beliefs. I'm talking
[2:59:48] Speaker 6: about what they're putting out on them. Okay, so then
[2:59:50] Speaker 6: Scientology are worshiping publicly. That's antipo.
[2:59:54] Speaker 1: So scientology is true? Say it? Scientology is true because
[2:59:57] Speaker 1: a bunch of celebrities believe in it.
[3:00:01] Speaker 6: I'm not saying that. I don't know and you don't know.
[3:00:04] Speaker 1: No, a bunch of celebrities believing scientologists. Yeah, that's right,
[3:00:09] Speaker 1: and that scientologists believe in Does that make it true?
[3:00:11] Speaker 1: A scientologists? Does that make it true? Michael?
[3:00:15] Speaker 6: I mean who knows?
[3:00:17] Speaker 1: Maybe? Who do you mean? Who knows? Scientology is true?
[3:00:20] Speaker 1: Scientologists believe in aliens? Right, I'm asking you. Does a
[3:00:24] Speaker 1: lot of people believe in it that are famous make
[3:00:27] Speaker 1: it true?
[3:00:30] Speaker 6: I mean not necessarily? But why would they do it?
[3:00:32] Speaker 1: Oh? Okay, so just believing in something doesn't make it true.
[3:00:36] Speaker 1: They do it? Why would they? They do it for
[3:00:39] Speaker 1: various reasons. Nobody knows. I'm not in their head and
[3:00:41] Speaker 1: neither you. You don't know their inner thoughts. I don't
[3:00:44] Speaker 1: know their inner thought. The people who believe in scientology
[3:00:47] Speaker 1: probably believe in scientology. Jewish, the Jewish people who are
[3:00:52] Speaker 1: in h this whatever, show business or whatever, they believe
[3:00:56] Speaker 1: in Judaism. There are a diversity of religious beliefs among
[3:01:00] Speaker 1: famous people. The fact that they believe something doesn't actually
[3:01:04] Speaker 1: the fact that they believe in something doesn't actually matter
[3:01:08] Speaker 1: to whether or not it's real, But isn't it ought
[3:01:11] Speaker 1: to you? You don't see untied Judaism or Muslim things
[3:01:15] Speaker 1: and music or because we live in a country where
[3:01:18] Speaker 1: the predominant religion is Christianity, and you guys want to
[3:01:23] Speaker 1: make all of us Christians, you want to force it
[3:01:25] Speaker 1: on us. That's why. That's literally why people are anti Christian.
[3:01:31] Speaker 1: The Jews don't do that. The Jews don't go door
[3:01:33] Speaker 1: to door trying to convert you. The Jews don't send
[3:01:36] Speaker 1: people into your school trying to convert your children to
[3:01:40] Speaker 1: be Jewish. It doesn't happen. The Hindus don't do it.
[3:01:44] Speaker 1: The reason why Christians get pushed back is because they're
[3:01:47] Speaker 1: obnoxious and they're the predominant religion in this country. If
[3:01:52] Speaker 1: Christians shut their mouths and minded their own damn business,
[3:01:55] Speaker 1: nobody would be doing this shit. I wouldn't be here either.
[3:01:58] Speaker 1: I wouldn't be doing this live stream. If you guys
[3:02:00] Speaker 1: can mind your own goddamn business. But you can't do it.
[3:02:03] Speaker 1: In fact, the fact that I'm here in the fact
[3:02:06] Speaker 1: that I'm here in my own space, and you couldn't
[3:02:09] Speaker 1: help yourself. You had to come here and combat the atheists.
[3:02:14] Speaker 1: Demonstrates how toxic your religion is, how toxic.
[3:02:17] Speaker 6: You're I'm not trying to combat you. I'm just trying
[3:02:20] Speaker 6: to pick your mind. You're the one that's getting combative.
[3:02:22] Speaker 6: I'm just trying to pick your mind because it's a
[3:02:23] Speaker 6: genuine question. To me, I don't get it's a bad question.
[3:02:27] Speaker 6: Why do it's not it's legitimate? Why do people worship Saturn?
[3:02:30] Speaker 6: Why do the worship ball?
[3:02:33] Speaker 1: Because people believe in dumb things, including Christianity. None of
[3:02:37] Speaker 1: these things for the Christian God being real.
[3:02:42] Speaker 6: But there it's it's it's part of Christian story.
[3:02:46] Speaker 1: Though no, it's literally not according to Christianity. Christianity. No,
[3:02:52] Speaker 1: they're acknowledging ball. Ball wasn't invented by Christians. Ball existed
[3:02:58] Speaker 1: a thousand years before the buble.
[3:03:02] Speaker 6: Okay, but right, he's mentioned in the Christian Bible.
[3:03:05] Speaker 1: He's mentioned outside of the Christian Bible. He's mentioned everywhere.
[3:03:09] Speaker 1: But all is not or doesn't have an origin in
[3:03:12] Speaker 1: the Christian Bible.
[3:03:16] Speaker 6: I don't know. But anyways, that that's one of my reasons.
[3:03:18] Speaker 1: It's not a good reason. And we'll try this again, Michael,
[3:03:21] Speaker 1: So this try this. Famous people being against Christianity is
[3:03:26] Speaker 1: not evidence for Christianity being true? Is this not?
[3:03:28] Speaker 6: You said yourself. You don't know why they do it,
[3:03:30] Speaker 6: why they show that they publicly worship savs.
[3:03:33] Speaker 1: I literally gave you three different answers for why they
[3:03:37] Speaker 1: do it. Some of them do it to mock you.
[3:03:39] Speaker 1: There are maybe a couple of them who really do
[3:03:42] Speaker 1: believe in the nonsense. I find that doubtful, and there
[3:03:44] Speaker 1: are people out there that just want to piss you off. Listen.
[3:03:48] Speaker 1: The fact that there are people who have crazy beliefs
[3:03:50] Speaker 1: is not in any way proof that their beliefs is true.
[3:03:57] Speaker 6: Okay. Do you believe in aliens? No?
[3:04:00] Speaker 1: Well, it depends what you mean by aliens. Do I
[3:04:02] Speaker 1: believe there are aliens flying around in spaceship or sucking
[3:04:06] Speaker 1: people up, sucking people up on spacecrafts? I don't believe
[3:04:10] Speaker 1: in that kind of aliens. Do I believe that there
[3:04:12] Speaker 1: is intelligent life out there in the universe somewhere?
[3:04:14] Speaker 8: Yeah?
[3:04:17] Speaker 6: Okay, So what's your opinion on.
[3:04:22] Speaker 1: Keep in mind we're talking about God.
[3:04:25] Speaker 6: I know I'm just trying to I'm trying to prove
[3:04:27] Speaker 6: ways that have shown me in which God is an imaginary.
[3:04:30] Speaker 1: Do you think aliens prove God in a way I am?
[3:04:33] Speaker 1: In the Bible that says something about how the demons
[3:04:38] Speaker 1: come from the sky. It does not say that.
[3:04:43] Speaker 6: Sorry, I'm not I'm not having read the Bible, but
[3:04:45] Speaker 6: it says something about where they come through the waters
[3:04:47] Speaker 6: or something like that, And it's been kind of showing
[3:04:50] Speaker 6: up in the media.
[3:04:52] Speaker 1: Haven't you seen Dying? Give me the verse? I don't know.
[3:04:56] Speaker 6: I don't know verses. I don't I read the Bible.
[3:04:59] Speaker 6: It says something about evil coming through the waters that
[3:05:06] Speaker 6: again I shouldn't have mentioned it if I can't. But
[3:05:08] Speaker 6: what do you what I mean that? What does that
[3:05:11] Speaker 6: tell you? I mean, there's they're trying to in a way.
[3:05:14] Speaker 6: In the media, you see aliens becoming more and more
[3:05:18] Speaker 6: I guess prominently or talking about the more they've even.
[3:05:25] Speaker 1: We've been talking about aliens ever since we discovered our space.
[3:05:31] Speaker 6: Okay, and recently they've said that, I mean, I guess
[3:05:33] Speaker 6: the government take out the grain of salt. They said
[3:05:36] Speaker 6: that they've confirmed their rail. That's that's just another thing, Okay.
[3:05:44] Speaker 6: I guess that's questionable.
[3:05:46] Speaker 1: Not questionable. People believe in aliens ever since we discovered
[3:05:50] Speaker 1: outer space. Have you not seen Star Trek? No? I mean,
[3:05:55] Speaker 1: do you do you think starch like like the whole
[3:05:59] Speaker 1: premise is that there's like other life out there.
[3:06:05] Speaker 6: Okay, I guess that's a bad example. I'm just trying
[3:06:07] Speaker 6: to say it. I've heard that it says that demons
[3:06:10] Speaker 6: will return and they're going to come back to us
[3:06:13] Speaker 6: and we're gonna.
[3:06:14] Speaker 1: Yes, it does say that for aliens. There there is
[3:06:16] Speaker 1: a Bible verse demons that demons will depart from you
[3:06:21] Speaker 1: like the spirits, right, the unclean spirits will depart from
[3:06:24] Speaker 1: you and then come back. It does say that. It
[3:06:27] Speaker 1: does talk about like the unclean spirits like wandering about,
[3:06:31] Speaker 1: you know, going through various places. But that didn't say
[3:06:35] Speaker 1: aliens they were cast into pigs and sent into the ocean.
[3:06:38] Speaker 6: Or something like that.
[3:06:39] Speaker 1: But like one of the early chapters of Mark, like
[3:06:43] Speaker 1: Mark three, four or five or something.
[3:06:46] Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, no, you know, I'm intrigued. I'm just trying
[3:06:50] Speaker 6: to let you know. Those are my reasons. Right again,
[3:06:53] Speaker 6: back to this, back to the first one. Is I mean,
[3:06:56] Speaker 6: I just to me, I don't get why people would
[3:06:58] Speaker 6: go out of their way to mock God, the Christian God.
[3:07:01] Speaker 6: But you, Domesticians, they're doing it to you.
[3:07:06] Speaker 1: When I was a Christian, I so I had a
[3:07:08] Speaker 1: friend of mine when I was a Christian who was
[3:07:13] Speaker 1: vehemently against Christianity, and he was an atheist, and he
[3:07:17] Speaker 1: would purposely, like when I would like leave, uh, he
[3:07:21] Speaker 1: would purposely write like six sixty six on some of
[3:07:24] Speaker 1: my stuff just to tease me. He doesn't believe in
[3:07:26] Speaker 1: the Antichrist, he doesn't believe in the devil. He's fucking
[3:07:28] Speaker 1: with me. Christians are doing it because of you, They're
[3:07:33] Speaker 1: not doing it because of God.
[3:07:40] Speaker 6: Okay, So why why do people worship Saturn?
[3:07:43] Speaker 1: Though?
[3:07:44] Speaker 6: That's what I want to know, because.
[3:07:45] Speaker 1: People there have been people worshiping the planets for thousands
[3:07:50] Speaker 1: of years.
[3:07:53] Speaker 6: Okay, and I that's right, But doesn't sat worshiping Saturn?
[3:07:57] Speaker 6: Doesn't that go against God? Isn't that anti Christian?
[3:08:00] Speaker 8: Yeah?
[3:08:01] Speaker 1: Literally, everything that's not anti christ every everything that's not
[3:08:05] Speaker 1: Christianity is anti Christian. That's how words work, right. So
[3:08:08] Speaker 1: the fact that people have other really listen to what
[3:08:11] Speaker 1: you're saying. This might be the dumbest argument I've ever
[3:08:13] Speaker 1: heard what you're saying is that people who don't believe
[3:08:17] Speaker 1: in my God prove that my God is real. That
[3:08:20] Speaker 1: literally the dumbest argument I've ever heard.
[3:08:23] Speaker 6: It's not though, because they they're they're they're doing there
[3:08:26] Speaker 6: acknowledging my God and religion I identify with is not
[3:08:31] Speaker 6: your God.
[3:08:32] Speaker 1: They're taking.
[3:08:33] Speaker 6: I'm not talking about Saturn.
[3:08:34] Speaker 1: I'm talking about Satan their worshiping, which is the opposite
[3:08:38] Speaker 1: of Michael. You said, you said Saturn the planet.
[3:08:44] Speaker 6: Yeah, right, which is ultimately no, it's not.
[3:08:50] Speaker 1: Okay, why would you think Satan is associated with the
[3:08:53] Speaker 1: planet Saturn.
[3:08:56] Speaker 6: There's a lot of ways. I don't study it. That's
[3:08:58] Speaker 6: not something I'm into. So I don't don't really know.
[3:09:01] Speaker 1: I mean, I have, I've seen things I notice in
[3:09:04] Speaker 1: the media, celebrities again, Michael, I don't know.
[3:09:08] Speaker 6: They feel like they have to put it out in
[3:09:10] Speaker 6: your face.
[3:09:11] Speaker 1: Yep, because if you, Michael, you're the reason.
[3:09:15] Speaker 6: Okay, so so so your answer to that then, is
[3:09:18] Speaker 6: that these celebrities, Beyonce and her rumor with her pictures
[3:09:23] Speaker 6: with the four Horsemen things like that, is because they're
[3:09:26] Speaker 6: trying to mock Americans.
[3:09:28] Speaker 1: They're trying about Christians.
[3:09:32] Speaker 6: But you said you said that America is only a
[3:09:34] Speaker 6: Christian country.
[3:09:36] Speaker 1: So they but the predominant religion in our country is Christianity,
[3:09:43] Speaker 1: and they don't like you. The reason why they don't
[3:09:45] Speaker 1: like Christians is because you're unbearable and you can't think rationally,
[3:09:50] Speaker 1: which is why we're here right now. I have your conversation.
[3:09:54] Speaker 6: That's your opinion. Are we unbearable or do they just
[3:09:56] Speaker 6: hate God and Jesus?
[3:09:57] Speaker 1: No, so you're that separate question.
[3:10:00] Speaker 6: That's up for questions.
[3:10:01] Speaker 1: No, Christians, that's not up for question. I'm an atheist.
[3:10:04] Speaker 1: It is the reason why we talk about the reason
[3:10:06] Speaker 1: why we talk about this is not because your God's unbearable,
[3:10:08] Speaker 1: Although your God is horrific. The problem is that you
[3:10:12] Speaker 1: people exactly like He's certainly not. He literally executes babies
[3:10:17] Speaker 1: for the crimes of their parents. Are you're not aware
[3:10:22] Speaker 1: of this? Have you never read the book?
[3:10:25] Speaker 6: What I not that I can think of? Can you
[3:10:29] Speaker 6: refresh your mind?
[3:10:30] Speaker 1: Yeah? Have you read for Samuel fifteen? No you haven't.
[3:10:35] Speaker 1: I'll show it for you. Okay, just look at the
[3:10:37] Speaker 1: screen for Samuel fifteen. God says, through the prophet Samuel,
[3:10:43] Speaker 1: the Lord sent me to anoint you as king over
[3:10:45] Speaker 1: his people. Now, therefore, listen to the words of the Lord.
[3:10:47] Speaker 1: Thus said the Lord of Hosts, I will punish the
[3:10:49] Speaker 1: Amalekites for what they did in opposing the Israelites when
[3:10:52] Speaker 1: they came up out of Egypt. Now go and attack
[3:10:54] Speaker 1: Amelek and utterly destroy all they have. Do not spare them,
[3:10:58] Speaker 1: but kill both men and women, child in infant ox shape,
[3:11:01] Speaker 1: camel and donkey. Do you think executing babies is good?
[3:11:07] Speaker 6: Well, of course not. But again that that is the Bible.
[3:11:11] Speaker 6: That's something that was written by man, and I think that,
[3:11:17] Speaker 6: even though I've never read it. I think the Bible
[3:11:19] Speaker 6: is meant to be taken.
[3:11:20] Speaker 1: But is it true? Is what true the Bible? I? I?
[3:11:29] Speaker 6: I in my opinion, this is, of course my opinion.
[3:11:31] Speaker 1: I don't.
[3:11:33] Speaker 6: There's some truth to it from what I've heard of,
[3:11:36] Speaker 6: and I haven't read the Bible, but I think the
[3:11:38] Speaker 6: Bible again, it was written by who was it, King
[3:11:43] Speaker 6: Arthur or something like that. It was written by a king,
[3:11:45] Speaker 6: King Arthur. You think King Arthur wrote the Bible? No,
[3:11:51] Speaker 6: I don't. It was a guest.
[3:11:52] Speaker 1: But it was written by a king or written by
[3:11:55] Speaker 1: a king, not even remotely close to being true?
[3:12:00] Speaker 6: Okay, well, regardless, it was written by Matt.
[3:12:03] Speaker 1: Let's let's try to stay literary here. Question is it true? Possible?
[3:12:08] Speaker 1: Answers yes, no or maybe? Which one it? What was
[3:12:16] Speaker 1: the question? Is the Bible true? Possible? Answers or yes,
[3:12:22] Speaker 1: no or maybe.
[3:12:24] Speaker 3: Maybe?
[3:12:26] Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm gonna put maybe for the answer to
[3:12:31] Speaker 1: the question. So next question is going to be.
[3:12:36] Speaker 6: No, one truly knows. I mean, that's why, that's why
[3:12:39] Speaker 6: we're here. Are you at the end of the day.
[3:12:42] Speaker 6: I believe the Bible, like I said, it was written
[3:12:46] Speaker 6: by man. It's intended to be interpreted just metaphor.
[3:12:52] Speaker 1: The more words you spit out right now, the more
[3:12:55] Speaker 1: words you're wasting. Question number two, are any parts of
[3:12:59] Speaker 1: the Bible true?
[3:13:03] Speaker 6: We don't know?
[3:13:05] Speaker 1: Maybe, so you be you believe in a god from
[3:13:09] Speaker 1: a book. You don't know who wrote it. You don't
[3:13:12] Speaker 1: know if it's true. You don't even know if any
[3:13:15] Speaker 1: parts of it are true.
[3:13:18] Speaker 6: Yes, Because I again, I don't identify with the religion.
[3:13:22] Speaker 4: I me.
[3:13:23] Speaker 6: I I'm a little different. I think I get it.
[3:13:25] Speaker 6: I see certain religions are toxic. I've seen I believe
[3:13:30] Speaker 6: certain religions do get infiltrated by evil. Sometimes you know.
[3:13:34] Speaker 6: So I see that.
[3:13:35] Speaker 1: Again.
[3:13:36] Speaker 6: I grew up, I was raised Catholic, but I don't
[3:13:40] Speaker 6: identify with the religion. But I do believe in a God.
[3:13:42] Speaker 6: I do believe there is a higher power. But you
[3:13:45] Speaker 6: were talking about being a Muslim. Are you not a Muslim?
[3:13:49] Speaker 1: Are you not? I believe?
[3:13:52] Speaker 6: Excuse me?
[3:13:53] Speaker 1: Do you not believe in the Christian God? I mean
[3:13:58] Speaker 1: to you? To you you would say what because I
[3:14:00] Speaker 1: believe in Jesus. So you're so you're a Christian? How
[3:14:05] Speaker 1: do you know anything about Christianity except for the Bible,
[3:14:12] Speaker 1: my culture how I was raised, Yes, exactly. And where
[3:14:15] Speaker 1: do they get their ideas of Christianity from?
[3:14:20] Speaker 6: Obviously the word the Bible?
[3:14:21] Speaker 1: Yes, thank you. Okay, So if the if the of
[3:14:26] Speaker 1: the tree of Christianity is in fact the Bible? Okay,
[3:14:30] Speaker 1: they give me the metaphor for why Saul told or
[3:14:35] Speaker 1: Samuel told Saul to go kill all the babies?
[3:14:37] Speaker 6: Why?
[3:14:38] Speaker 1: What's the metaphor there?
[3:14:41] Speaker 6: Who's I again? I I can't really speak because I'm
[3:14:45] Speaker 6: not familiar with the story or who these people are.
[3:14:48] Speaker 1: But again, back to my point, A lot of religions. No,
[3:14:51] Speaker 1: we're not going back to your point. We're still on
[3:14:53] Speaker 1: this point. So, King Saul was a king anointed by Yahweh.
[3:14:59] Speaker 1: The prophet Samuel anointed him to be king. And God
[3:15:03] Speaker 1: was unhappy with the Amalekites because four hundred years prior
[3:15:06] Speaker 1: they left Egypt and the Amalekites attacked some of the
[3:15:09] Speaker 1: Israelites as they passed through the land, and God said,
[3:15:13] Speaker 1: those fucking Amalekites. I want to make sure they're all
[3:15:15] Speaker 1: wiped out eventually. And then four hundred years later, God
[3:15:19] Speaker 1: finally gets around to doing it and says, all right,
[3:15:21] Speaker 1: wipe them all out, man, women and children. What's it
[3:15:24] Speaker 1: a metaphor for?
[3:15:26] Speaker 6: How did God do that?
[3:15:28] Speaker 1: Though he had people do it. He had the army
[3:15:31] Speaker 1: of King Saul do it.
[3:15:33] Speaker 6: He had people do it. Okay, So so back to
[3:15:36] Speaker 6: your point then, of hallucination religious hallucination.
[3:15:39] Speaker 1: Right now, I'm asking you what's the metaphor for? He
[3:15:42] Speaker 1: said the Bible is a metaphor. I want to know
[3:15:45] Speaker 1: what's a metaphor for. What's it mean?
[3:15:48] Speaker 6: I'm going to say that wasn't justified by God. I
[3:15:50] Speaker 6: think that if that were to be true, that goes
[3:15:53] Speaker 6: back to your point what you said yourself about Michael.
[3:15:55] Speaker 1: I asked him, what is a metaphor. For you told
[3:16:01] Speaker 1: me the Bible needs to be interpreted metaphorically. We're reading
[3:16:05] Speaker 1: a passage. I want to know what the metaphorical meaning is.
[3:16:08] Speaker 6: Well, why did he kill these people?
[3:16:12] Speaker 1: I'm asking you.
[3:16:14] Speaker 6: Well, you're the one that's read the Bible, right, I mean,
[3:16:16] Speaker 6: I don't know the story, so I'm going to just
[3:16:18] Speaker 6: go logic.
[3:16:19] Speaker 1: The reality is the Bible doesn't position this as a metaphor.
[3:16:23] Speaker 1: It's clearly history. And what happened is this is justification
[3:16:28] Speaker 1: for the genocide committed by the ancient Israelites. That's what
[3:16:33] Speaker 1: it's happened that.
[3:16:35] Speaker 6: Bif No, it's not our God, it's evil evil?
[3:16:40] Speaker 3: Does that?
[3:16:41] Speaker 1: I know it is your God? Yeahweh the Lord, the Guy,
[3:16:44] Speaker 1: the God of the Bible. That we can not read
[3:16:49] Speaker 1: it for you because I'm certain you weren't listening the
[3:16:52] Speaker 1: first time, says the Lord sent me to anoint you
[3:16:57] Speaker 1: king over his people. Now, therefore, listen to the words
[3:16:59] Speaker 1: of of the Lord. These are the words of the
[3:17:03] Speaker 1: Lord to go kill these people.
[3:17:06] Speaker 6: Okay, And how can you prove that he actually heard
[3:17:09] Speaker 6: that from the Lord?
[3:17:11] Speaker 1: So is the Bible saying things untrue?
[3:17:14] Speaker 4: No?
[3:17:14] Speaker 1: I don't.
[3:17:15] Speaker 6: I'm asking you a question.
[3:17:18] Speaker 1: No, I'm taking the Bible at face I'm taking the Bible, Michael.
[3:17:21] Speaker 1: I'm taking the Bible at face value. I'm saying the
[3:17:24] Speaker 1: Bible said something happened. If that thing didn't happen, then
[3:17:28] Speaker 1: the Bible is not true. So do you think the
[3:17:31] Speaker 1: thing happened or is it not true?
[3:17:38] Speaker 6: Again, you're answering my question with another question, how do
[3:17:41] Speaker 6: you know?
[3:17:41] Speaker 1: I'm not That's irrelevant. I already told you nobody can
[3:17:46] Speaker 1: prove it. I'm asking you, do you think the Bible's true? Michael?
[3:17:50] Speaker 6: So you don't know, and I don't know.
[3:17:52] Speaker 1: Nobody knows. But hey, take a deep breath, and Michael,
[3:17:58] Speaker 1: take a deep breath. I'm asking you a simple question.
[3:18:03] Speaker 1: Do you think this story is true?
[3:18:11] Speaker 6: Do I I think, I mean, I hope not. I
[3:18:14] Speaker 6: mean if it's true, I mean, I don't know.
[3:18:17] Speaker 1: But in my opinion, if the story, if the story
[3:18:20] Speaker 1: is not true, that means the Bible says things that
[3:18:25] Speaker 1: are not true. Do you see?
[3:18:29] Speaker 6: Yes, and again the Bible was written by man.
[3:18:31] Speaker 1: Okay, So do you believe that the Bible is true
[3:18:34] Speaker 1: or not?
[3:18:36] Speaker 6: No, not entirely.
[3:18:39] Speaker 1: Okay, thank you. Finally, finally we get to the next question,
[3:18:42] Speaker 1: but that you've had the next question about it for
[3:18:45] Speaker 1: the last five minutes. Are there any parts that are
[3:18:49] Speaker 1: there any parts that are true? I guess to put.
[3:18:59] Speaker 6: There's a lot of things that have come that relate
[3:19:01] Speaker 6: to time that we have proof of, like the drying
[3:19:04] Speaker 6: of the Euphrates River.
[3:19:06] Speaker 1: That that's not even remotely close to being true. It
[3:19:08] Speaker 1: didn't dry up. And the prophecy from Revelation thirteen, well,
[3:19:12] Speaker 1: it's about too is The prophecy from Revelation thirteen says
[3:19:16] Speaker 1: that there are five other events that have to happen
[3:19:19] Speaker 1: first or sixteen, right, not thirteen. Okay, I'll really Revelation sixteen,
[3:19:25] Speaker 1: next one, then weekend. No, we're we're not on the
[3:19:27] Speaker 1: next one yet, we're on the first one. Revelation sixteen says,
[3:19:31] Speaker 1: this is what's going to happen before the Euphrates River
[3:19:34] Speaker 1: dries up. Just read the whole passage. The first Angel
[3:19:37] Speaker 1: poured out its bowl of wrath on the earth, and
[3:19:39] Speaker 1: a foul and painful sore came on those who had
[3:19:42] Speaker 1: the brand of the beast and who worshiped its image. Okay,
[3:19:45] Speaker 1: so step yes, Step number one relate to the real world.
[3:19:50] Speaker 1: Step number one, Michael metaphorical. Michael, pay attention step number one.
[3:19:55] Speaker 1: Before you get the euphrates river drying, there must in
[3:19:59] Speaker 1: fact be people with the mark of the beast, and
[3:20:02] Speaker 1: all the marks that people take have broken out in sores.
[3:20:06] Speaker 1: That didn't happen. It's not happened yet. Point number two.
[3:20:10] Speaker 1: A second angel poured out his bowl into the sea,
[3:20:12] Speaker 1: and it became like the blood of a corpse, and
[3:20:15] Speaker 1: every living thing in the sea died. Has it happened.
[3:20:21] Speaker 6: There's been accounts, yes, has no.
[3:20:23] Speaker 1: We'll try this again. It's you, yes or no. Has
[3:20:25] Speaker 1: it happened that every living thing in the sea has died?
[3:20:32] Speaker 6: Not not to see. But it's partially happened. There's been signs.
[3:20:35] Speaker 1: But okay, so that's a truly okay. Angel his bowl
[3:20:39] Speaker 1: on the rivers and the springs of water, and they
[3:20:42] Speaker 1: became blood. Has has the rivers and water of the
[3:20:46] Speaker 1: earth become blood in some parts of the world.
[3:20:50] Speaker 6: Yes, I've seen it.
[3:20:51] Speaker 1: Show me where. Show me where it actually happened. Show
[3:20:54] Speaker 1: me where a water has turned into literal blood.
[3:21:02] Speaker 6: I mean you you have a computer, you can research it.
[3:21:05] Speaker 1: It's not true. It's never happened. Water has never turned
[3:21:07] Speaker 1: into blood. It's not true, I mean not blood.
[3:21:10] Speaker 6: But again, we're the Bible. We're taking it in a
[3:21:12] Speaker 6: metaphorical sense.
[3:21:13] Speaker 1: Right, No, no, you said, you said it's little Michael,
[3:21:15] Speaker 1: you said the Euphrates River is I asked you what
[3:21:20] Speaker 1: part of the Bible is true, and you said, the
[3:21:23] Speaker 1: Euphrday's river drying up. So now is the Euphrates river
[3:21:27] Speaker 1: dry river drying up? Is that a real thing that happened?
[3:21:30] Speaker 1: Or is that a metaphor?
[3:21:33] Speaker 6: That's that is a real thing.
[3:21:35] Speaker 1: That's oh, okay, okay, so but all so, all the
[3:21:39] Speaker 1: bowls of Wrath are metaphors, except for the sixth Bowl
[3:21:43] Speaker 1: of Wrath. On the sixth Bowl of Wrath, where it
[3:21:45] Speaker 1: says the great Euphrates River and it's water dried up
[3:21:47] Speaker 1: in order to prepare the way for the kings for
[3:21:49] Speaker 1: the East, which is the Parthians by the way. But
[3:21:53] Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, Michael, the only
[3:21:55] Speaker 1: in the modern Michael, in the modern day, we don't
[3:22:00] Speaker 1: need the river to dry up for armies to cross over.
[3:22:03] Speaker 1: That's something that you needed back in the ancient times.
[3:22:06] Speaker 1: Now we have technology. So just to pay attention to
[3:22:09] Speaker 1: what you've done, you've said that this one verse this
[3:22:14] Speaker 1: one verse is literal.
[3:22:15] Speaker 6: No, you're misconstruing what I said because you're seeing I'm
[3:22:17] Speaker 6: taking it in a literal sense and I'm not.
[3:22:19] Speaker 1: Okay, so I didn't see that. Okay, the Euphrates River
[3:22:22] Speaker 1: drying up isn't a literal prophecy.
[3:22:27] Speaker 6: I'm seeing the stories in the Bible. What the Bible
[3:22:29] Speaker 6: talks about is to be taking metaphor.
[3:22:31] Speaker 1: I'm asking you about this one. So what you brought
[3:22:33] Speaker 1: up bibles the sixth Bowl. I asked you what part
[3:22:38] Speaker 1: of the Bible's true? And you went to the Euphrates
[3:22:41] Speaker 1: River drying up. So you're pointing to a prophecy that
[3:22:44] Speaker 1: says the Euphrates River is going to dry up. Now
[3:22:48] Speaker 1: I'm showing you the chapter where that prophecy shows up,
[3:22:51] Speaker 1: and you're telling me it's all a metaphor. So if
[3:22:54] Speaker 1: it's all, if it's all a metaphor, it doesn't matter
[3:22:56] Speaker 1: if the Euphrates River is drying or not, because it's
[3:22:58] Speaker 1: a metaphor.
[3:23:00] Speaker 6: It does though, because the Euphrates rivers what we have
[3:23:03] Speaker 6: as tangible evidence to this day that is mentioned in
[3:23:06] Speaker 6: the Bible.
[3:23:06] Speaker 1: Then it's not a metaphor.
[3:23:08] Speaker 13: Michael, right, Well, that part, but I'm obviously an angel
[3:23:12] Speaker 13: pouring a bowl of blood of water like it's that's
[3:23:16] Speaker 13: like there's no tangible evidence to that, like obviously, but I'm.
[3:23:19] Speaker 1: We're not asking about the angel, We're asking about the effect.
[3:23:23] Speaker 1: The effect is the euphrates river drying. Is that a
[3:23:27] Speaker 1: metaphor or is it literal.
[3:23:31] Speaker 6: In this sense, I'm saying it's literal because we're watching it.
[3:23:34] Speaker 1: Fantastic. Now are the other bowls of wrath? Are those
[3:23:39] Speaker 1: effects literal or metaphors?
[3:23:42] Speaker 6: Half in half?
[3:23:43] Speaker 1: Half ones are literal.
[3:23:46] Speaker 6: Yeah, So to the first one, it says, can you
[3:23:49] Speaker 6: scroll up to the first one, it says something about
[3:23:53] Speaker 6: something about the I can't see it. Yeah, the mark
[3:23:58] Speaker 6: of the beast, and thing about those who worship the
[3:24:02] Speaker 6: image of the beast. That goes back to my first
[3:24:06] Speaker 6: point of people going out of their way to be
[3:24:09] Speaker 6: anti Christian. Michael, what do you think the mark of
[3:24:11] Speaker 6: the beast is there in prophecy?
[3:24:13] Speaker 1: Michael? Okay, this is crazy worship the beast, Michael, pay attention. Okay,
[3:24:18] Speaker 1: it doesn't say that there are people who worship the beast.
[3:24:22] Speaker 1: It says there were people who worship the worship image
[3:24:25] Speaker 1: who have the mark of the beast and those marks
[3:24:29] Speaker 1: will break out in painful sores. That's what it says.
[3:24:35] Speaker 1: If this is literal, who worship If this is literal,
[3:24:39] Speaker 1: then it hasn't happened.
[3:24:41] Speaker 6: That that the who worshiped its image. That is happening
[3:24:45] Speaker 6: right now.
[3:24:46] Speaker 1: There hasn't happened. My point, Michael, Michael focused lack of
[3:24:52] Speaker 1: MICHAELI statement. Pay attention, Michael. There is a big statement
[3:24:57] Speaker 1: that has two different claims. There are two of them.
[3:25:02] Speaker 1: One is that there were people who have the mark
[3:25:05] Speaker 1: and the marks became sores. The second part of the
[3:25:09] Speaker 1: statement is that they worshiped the image. I'm asking you
[3:25:13] Speaker 1: if the first part happened, not that I contegibly see yes,
[3:25:21] Speaker 1: means this didn't come true because the first bowl of
[3:25:25] Speaker 1: Wrath says a foul and painful sore came on those
[3:25:30] Speaker 1: who had the brand of the beast and who worshiped
[3:25:34] Speaker 1: its image. The point of this bowl of wrath is
[3:25:37] Speaker 1: the painful sores.
[3:25:40] Speaker 6: So this we're not talking about the sores. I'm talking
[3:25:43] Speaker 6: about the Euphrdi's river, which which is.
[3:25:45] Speaker 1: All I have, right. I know, Michael, I know, I
[3:25:48] Speaker 1: know you're talking about Euphraddi's River. You haven't followed this
[3:25:51] Speaker 1: conversation at all. So what I'm pointing out is there
[3:25:54] Speaker 1: are five things that must happen before the Ufraate River dries,
[3:26:01] Speaker 1: and those five things have not happened. The first thing
[3:26:06] Speaker 1: is that the people are going to have painful sores.
[3:26:09] Speaker 1: The second thing is that everything in the sea is
[3:26:12] Speaker 1: going to die. The third thing is that all the
[3:26:15] Speaker 1: water is going to turn to blood. That the fourth
[3:26:19] Speaker 1: thing is that the sun is going to get really
[3:26:24] Speaker 1: hot and scorched to the earth with fire. That shit
[3:26:26] Speaker 1: didn't happen. The fifth thing is that the global The
[3:26:32] Speaker 1: fifth thing is that the literal, entire kingdom of the
[3:26:36] Speaker 1: Beast will be plunged into darkness. It says when he
[3:26:39] Speaker 1: poured out his bowl on the throne of the Beast
[3:26:42] Speaker 1: and its kingdom was plunged into darkness, people gnawed at
[3:26:44] Speaker 1: their tongues in agony and cursed to God of Heaven.
[3:26:48] Speaker 1: But the kingdom of the Beast, namely Rome, has not
[3:26:51] Speaker 1: been plunged into darkness. So the fact that You'phrates river
[3:26:56] Speaker 1: is a little bit dry right now, is not there
[3:27:00] Speaker 1: has nothing to do with this prophecy. Not only that
[3:27:02] Speaker 1: it does, not only that it's been dry just as
[3:27:05] Speaker 1: much it is now. In the past, it dries sometimes
[3:27:09] Speaker 1: then it comes back. It's also true the part of
[3:27:11] Speaker 1: the reasons why it's drying is from mad made activities.
[3:27:15] Speaker 1: So this is this is a useless thing to point
[3:27:18] Speaker 1: to in the Bible.
[3:27:22] Speaker 6: Again, it's not, of course that that's your opinion. That's fine,
[3:27:27] Speaker 6: But out of all of that what of course, it's
[3:27:31] Speaker 6: not going to happen all that one sense over time.
[3:27:32] Speaker 6: But the things that are mentioned are yes, they're euphrates
[3:27:36] Speaker 6: river drying up and people worshiping the image, but they're.
[3:27:40] Speaker 1: In order, and not one of them, not one of
[3:27:43] Speaker 1: them says as a bowl of wrath, people will worship
[3:27:46] Speaker 1: the beast. It doesn't say that the bowl of wrath
[3:27:49] Speaker 1: doesn't people are doing it. They're actively doing it, I agree,
[3:27:53] Speaker 1: But that's not what that verse is about. That verse
[3:27:57] Speaker 1: says the people doing it will break out with a
[3:28:00] Speaker 1: grievous sore. But they haven't done that. That hasn't happened,
[3:28:04] Speaker 1: which means that first step has not happened.
[3:28:09] Speaker 6: Okay, that's fine. Like I said, that's that's back to
[3:28:13] Speaker 6: biblical stuff again. Back to my point, I said, roy Sten,
[3:28:16] Speaker 6: that was written by a man, so.
[3:28:18] Speaker 1: Because I again, I don't. I don't back the last
[3:28:23] Speaker 1: question we left off on. Are there any parts in
[3:28:26] Speaker 1: the Bible that are true? Yeah, like my questions is
[3:28:34] Speaker 1: there may be? I mean it's again it's maybe what
[3:28:36] Speaker 1: it means.
[3:28:37] Speaker 4: Maybe.
[3:28:37] Speaker 6: I feel a lot of history was hidden from us.
[3:28:39] Speaker 1: They don't want us to know who Who are they?
[3:28:44] Speaker 1: The men, the people that humans that wrote the Bible,
[3:28:47] Speaker 1: the people who wrote the Bible were hiding things from us.
[3:28:51] Speaker 6: Yes, you don't believe that.
[3:28:52] Speaker 1: You think, how could you possibly how could you possibly
[3:28:56] Speaker 1: know that they hid it from you?
[3:28:59] Speaker 6: Well, how do you know that it's not?
[3:29:01] Speaker 1: I don't. It's just like we first of all, that
[3:29:02] Speaker 1: they don't. I don't think they have any higher knowledge
[3:29:05] Speaker 1: to hide. I think the Bible was written by a
[3:29:07] Speaker 1: bunch of ancient goat hooters who thought the Earth was flat,
[3:29:10] Speaker 1: there was a dome over top of it, and that
[3:29:12] Speaker 1: if you let animals mate in front of a striped pole,
[3:29:15] Speaker 1: it will produce striped offspring.
[3:29:21] Speaker 6: Okay, And then so you believe and you believe humans
[3:29:25] Speaker 6: went to the moon.
[3:29:26] Speaker 1: Ye, you're in the sixties. Are a flat earther?
[3:29:35] Speaker 6: I I don't identify with anything again.
[3:29:39] Speaker 1: Flatter globe.
[3:29:42] Speaker 6: I don't know.
[3:29:43] Speaker 1: I don't know.
[3:29:44] Speaker 6: I don't know.
[3:29:46] Speaker 1: How do you think GPS works?
[3:29:54] Speaker 6: That's that's out of the topic. I don't I don't
[3:29:57] Speaker 6: know how.
[3:30:00] Speaker 1: I think I've told us everything we didn't know at
[3:30:01] Speaker 1: this point. So I'm going to move on to the
[3:30:03] Speaker 1: next guest. We've got time for another guest in here.
[3:30:05] Speaker 1: I'm going to move on. But thanks for letting us
[3:30:07] Speaker 1: know that you don't Thanks for checking me off topic.
[3:30:10] Speaker 3: But I did.
[3:30:11] Speaker 6: I told you why do why do celebrities are right?
[3:30:16] Speaker 1: Well that was something guys, brain rot. If you ever
[3:30:20] Speaker 1: worried about brain rot, you've just seen a really good
[3:30:22] Speaker 1: example of it. My religion is true because some celebrities
[3:30:26] Speaker 1: don't like it. There you go. Also, I don't know
[3:30:28] Speaker 1: if the earth is round, and also the Bible's true
[3:30:31] Speaker 1: except fuck all of it's a metaphor, you know. All right,
[3:30:36] Speaker 1: let's grab our let's grab our next guest. So we've
[3:30:40] Speaker 1: got a couple of people that have been waiting in
[3:30:42] Speaker 1: the guest queue. I tried to get Melon in previously,
[3:30:45] Speaker 1: but Melon had a bad connection or they couldn't hear me.
[3:30:48] Speaker 1: So we'll try mellon one more time. See if this works.
[3:30:52] Speaker 1: How you doing Melon? Can you hear me? Melan? Okay,
[3:31:00] Speaker 1: sorry Melan, gotta gotta go, all right, and uh, let's
[3:31:05] Speaker 1: see next in line. Looks like my mind's absurdity.
[3:31:11] Speaker 8: Yes, I'm here. Can you hear me?
[3:31:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, welcome in absurdity.
[3:31:14] Speaker 8: Awesome stuff. Can you give me that? Just five seconds
[3:31:18] Speaker 8: is to close my door?
[3:31:19] Speaker 1: Sure?
[3:31:20] Speaker 8: Cool, I'll be right back. Awesome stuff. I'm back. There
[3:31:30] Speaker 8: we go. I'm so glad I actually got in.
[3:31:34] Speaker 1: Well, well, yeah, wet that. We've had quite a bit
[3:31:37] Speaker 1: of a queue on the YouTube stream all day, so
[3:31:40] Speaker 1: our absurdity? Are you at least eighteen? And are you
[3:31:43] Speaker 1: a believer?
[3:31:44] Speaker 8: Yes, I'm well over eighteen, and I'm somewhat a believer
[3:31:49] Speaker 8: and you guys have convinced me not to be it.
[3:31:53] Speaker 8: And when I say you guys, I found you through
[3:31:56] Speaker 8: Planet Peterson.
[3:31:58] Speaker 1: Oh he's great.
[3:31:58] Speaker 8: You guys have been a massive inspiration.
[3:32:02] Speaker 1: Okay, So you're not really a believer right now.
[3:32:06] Speaker 8: At the moment, I'm questioning it, okay, but I have
[3:32:09] Speaker 8: somewhat my own ideas of why I may have believed it,
[3:32:15] Speaker 8: and yeah, I would like to discuss that with you.
[3:32:17] Speaker 1: So unfortunately, like we're trying to do debates here.
[3:32:22] Speaker 8: Yeah, so you have my ideas, I guess we'll have
[3:32:26] Speaker 8: somewhat of belief.
[3:32:28] Speaker 1: So what I would need then is for you to
[3:32:34] Speaker 1: find a claim that you and I would disagree on. Like,
[3:32:37] Speaker 1: do you believe that God is real?
[3:32:40] Speaker 8: So the God of the Bible know, but God in
[3:32:42] Speaker 8: its own sense? Yes?
[3:32:44] Speaker 1: Great, okay, So you do believe in God?
[3:32:47] Speaker 8: Yeah, I believe in a concept of God.
[3:32:50] Speaker 1: Awesome, okay, So can you before we get started, can
[3:32:54] Speaker 1: you tell me a little bit about your God? Is
[3:32:55] Speaker 1: it like all knowing, all good, or powerful or something else.
[3:33:01] Speaker 8: I don't think it's all powerful. I don't think it's
[3:33:04] Speaker 8: all knowing. No, in the sense of my concept of it.
[3:33:09] Speaker 8: If I can give you an idea of where I
[3:33:12] Speaker 8: come from when I say that, that will be awesome.
[3:33:15] Speaker 8: But I don't think it's a being thing out of
[3:33:20] Speaker 8: a physical thing. So yeah, if I can explain from there,
[3:33:24] Speaker 8: that'll be pretty cool.
[3:33:25] Speaker 1: Is your concept of God like an entity that created
[3:33:29] Speaker 1: the universe?
[3:33:32] Speaker 8: So let me let me start from where I'm from
[3:33:34] Speaker 8: with God. So let me explain it and you can
[3:33:37] Speaker 8: see where I'm coming from. So when when the Hindus
[3:33:41] Speaker 8: talk of these different gods, or when Jesus spoke of God.
[3:33:46] Speaker 8: I think it's a concept of mind and or that
[3:33:50] Speaker 8: mind concept, and we would in today's time, we will
[3:33:54] Speaker 8: talk of it in psychology. So you schizophrenic, you are
[3:33:59] Speaker 8: a narcissis to you of this or.
[3:34:00] Speaker 1: That and right? But do you believe in a creator?
[3:34:04] Speaker 1: Do you believe there's a creator of the creator a things?
[3:34:08] Speaker 8: If everything is one, then yes, we it is just created.
[3:34:13] Speaker 8: When I say I, it's the same when you say I.
[3:34:16] Speaker 8: So oh that hurts. This is me. I think that
[3:34:19] Speaker 8: I is the creator the creation. I think that just
[3:34:23] Speaker 8: carries on the creator.
[3:34:25] Speaker 1: Just think from the creation.
[3:34:28] Speaker 8: No, I think this is always just bin here.
[3:34:30] Speaker 1: Great, So you don't believe in God? Congratulations you are
[3:34:33] Speaker 1: an atheist? Cool?
[3:34:35] Speaker 8: Okay, yeah, in that sense, I am most likely atheist.
[3:34:39] Speaker 8: I don't think there's a sky Daddy, but I still
[3:34:42] Speaker 8: think there's that that concept of God, that the if
[3:34:48] Speaker 8: I I can't even fathom the idea of nothingness. I
[3:34:50] Speaker 8: can't even fathom the idea of me not being born.
[3:34:54] Speaker 8: But there's that's still that creation. Something is telling me
[3:34:59] Speaker 8: this exists, and I think that is God.
[3:35:02] Speaker 1: But you don't believe in God?
[3:35:06] Speaker 8: I probably don't, and it's thanks to you guys. You
[3:35:08] Speaker 8: guys have really blown my mind of going through this
[3:35:13] Speaker 8: thought process, and that's my only idea of what it
[3:35:15] Speaker 8: could be. And I do think that could be the
[3:35:19] Speaker 8: concept of God, and I think that's what Jesus in
[3:35:23] Speaker 8: the scriptures was talking about. I used to be a Christian.
[3:35:26] Speaker 8: I'm no longer. If anything, I'm a Hindu Buddhist Christian.
[3:35:31] Speaker 1: So yeah, well, I think Buddhism you can make sense
[3:35:34] Speaker 1: of Hinduism not so much. Okay, So it sounds like
[3:35:38] Speaker 1: we actually agree. Then there's no like creator father God concept.
[3:35:43] Speaker 1: So I don't know if we have much to argue about.
[3:35:45] Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't see any proof for the
[3:35:48] Speaker 1: spiritual realm. And my guess if I asked you for
[3:35:52] Speaker 1: proof of the spiritual realm, you would just go to
[3:35:54] Speaker 1: personal experience, right.
[3:35:58] Speaker 8: Not necessarily. No, I've had one thing.
[3:36:01] Speaker 1: It could have been a coincidence, but that would be
[3:36:04] Speaker 1: a personal experience.
[3:36:06] Speaker 8: Yeah, not necessarily. My wife was involved in the same thing,
[3:36:10] Speaker 8: and yeah, I don't want to go down it could
[3:36:13] Speaker 8: have been a coincidence.
[3:36:14] Speaker 1: So okay, yeah, well listen, absertain thanks for coming and
[3:36:18] Speaker 1: chat with us. I got just enough time to grab
[3:36:20] Speaker 1: another guest and get a really good debate in before
[3:36:23] Speaker 1: I've got to read super Change Perfect cool.
[3:36:26] Speaker 8: I try to try to expend my concept of God
[3:36:28] Speaker 8: to you. But yeah, I appreciated your time.
[3:36:30] Speaker 1: My Chrue friend.
[3:36:32] Speaker 8: All Right, cheers, buddy.
[3:36:39] Speaker 1: I'm intrigued by the people who say they believe in God,
[3:36:42] Speaker 1: but then they don't really believe in God, they just
[3:36:45] Speaker 1: believe in spirituality. Because if you just believe in spirituality,
[3:36:50] Speaker 1: that's different than whether or not a God exists. And
[3:36:54] Speaker 1: I think we've had enough spirituality like Google conversations for
[3:36:59] Speaker 1: the day. I want to talk about. We're gonna get
[3:37:03] Speaker 1: another guest in here. Maybe we'll see if Mason can connect.
[3:37:17] Speaker 1: Maybe maybe Mason, maybe not? Hello, Welcome in Mason. How
[3:37:25] Speaker 1: you doing? Hello Mason?
[3:37:30] Speaker 4: Hey, how's it going today?
[3:37:33] Speaker 1: Mason? I think you've got a really bad connection. Can
[3:37:34] Speaker 1: you connect to the Wi Fi?
[3:37:36] Speaker 4: Can you hear me?
[3:37:37] Speaker 1: I can hear you. It is really delayed.
[3:37:41] Speaker 2: Uh?
[3:37:45] Speaker 4: Is that does that make it any better?
[3:37:47] Speaker 1: I mean you're louder now?
[3:37:50] Speaker 4: Hello?
[3:37:51] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[3:37:52] Speaker 4: Okay?
[3:37:53] Speaker 6: Uh?
[3:37:54] Speaker 4: Maybe if I speak a little slower.
[3:37:56] Speaker 1: No, that's not that. I think your connection needs to
[3:37:58] Speaker 1: be faster. You're not your speaking, gotcha.
[3:38:05] Speaker 14: Let me see if I can get a little well, okay,
[3:38:09] Speaker 14: let me see if I can move somewhere else.
[3:38:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm here in the car. Yeah, your connection is
[3:38:15] Speaker 1: not good where you're at.
[3:38:17] Speaker 14: Yeah, no, I'm gonna I'm gonna change locations one second,
[3:38:25] Speaker 14: and yeah I'm driving.
[3:38:26] Speaker 4: I saw it. I heard your material and I thought
[3:38:28] Speaker 4: it was interesting. Mhm all right, does that make it better?
[3:38:34] Speaker 1: I can still hear you loud and clear. I think
[3:38:36] Speaker 1: the problems are.
[3:38:36] Speaker 4: Delays that make it better. Okay, there's a lag in
[3:38:45] Speaker 4: the the Wi Fi.
[3:38:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, well, right now, it shows you're not connected with
[3:38:49] Speaker 1: the Wi Fi. I might take a sickle catch up.
[3:38:56] Speaker 1: All right, your bars went away. I'm gonna count to four.
[3:38:59] Speaker 1: When you hear me say four, I need you to
[3:39:00] Speaker 1: say five. Okay, time four yep, one two three four
[3:39:17] Speaker 1: five okay, get an eight second delay, my friend. Unfortunately,
[3:39:22] Speaker 1: that's not that's too much. All right, listen Amazon, when
[3:39:27] Speaker 1: you get better reception.
[3:39:28] Speaker 14: Coming back, Okay, that's fine, all right, cheers buddy, Yeah, yeah, hey,
[3:39:34] Speaker 14: thanks for thanks for having me on sure thing.
[3:39:37] Speaker 1: It's a shame we couldn't talk to him. He actually
[3:39:39] Speaker 1: sounded nice. It is what it is, though. Gotta have
[3:39:42] Speaker 1: good reception, all right, let me grab our next guest here.
[3:39:50] Speaker 1: Looks like it's Darwin Waterson. Did I read that correctly?
[3:39:57] Speaker 6: Darwin?
[3:40:00] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[3:40:00] Speaker 1: Can you hear me? Yeah? I can hear you. How
[3:40:01] Speaker 1: you doing, Darwin?
[3:40:04] Speaker 3: I'm well in yourself doing well?
[3:40:05] Speaker 1: Thank you for asking? Darwin? Are you at least eighteen?
[3:40:08] Speaker 1: And do you believe in God? I am at least eighteen.
[3:40:12] Speaker 1: I do not believe in God? Oh over atheists? We agree? Then, congratulations, right,
[3:40:18] Speaker 1: but we're just doing debates, Okay, buddy, No, no, I
[3:40:23] Speaker 1: I'm calling on behalf of a friend, so I'm yeah.
[3:40:27] Speaker 1: We don't do anything like that, right, we'll get Bean
[3:40:31] Speaker 1: in the conversation. How you doing, Bean? Hello? Can you
[3:40:35] Speaker 1: hear me? Hello? I can hear Yeah, how you doing? Bean?
[3:40:38] Speaker 2: That is awesome because I was trying on a debate
[3:40:40] Speaker 2: like a few weeks back and then like a while
[3:40:42] Speaker 2: before that, and I could not because my microphone was
[3:40:45] Speaker 2: just not connected with her as well.
[3:40:47] Speaker 1: That's happened before, but it's working now.
[3:40:50] Speaker 2: It is working now.
[3:40:51] Speaker 1: Yeah. So Bean, are you at least eighteen in are
[3:40:54] Speaker 1: you a believer in God? I'm eighteen.
[3:40:57] Speaker 2: I've lived in the Bible.
[3:40:58] Speaker 1: Cool, so you're Christian?
[3:41:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like more like Apostolic rooted kind of probably
[3:41:06] Speaker 2: like Catholic at the moment thinking about Orthodoxy, but I'm
[3:41:09] Speaker 2: like more Catholic, so you're.
[3:41:11] Speaker 1: Probably not Apostolic than like Apostolic is a Protestant denomination.
[3:41:17] Speaker 2: Where like that's not what apostolic means.
[3:41:20] Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying is Apostolic is a Protestant denomination.
[3:41:24] Speaker 1: What are you talking about? There's a Protestant denomination called Apostolic.
[3:41:31] Speaker 2: All right, well, I don't care about the Protestant denomination
[3:41:34] Speaker 2: called apostolic. I mean Apostolic in the in the root
[3:41:37] Speaker 2: of what it means is like, you know, having grounded
[3:41:40] Speaker 2: in the Apostles or.
[3:41:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, obviously, if you're Catholic, you would believe
[3:41:43] Speaker 1: that the Catholics and Orthodox both believe that they're rooted
[3:41:46] Speaker 1: in the Apostles and the original teachings of the Church.
[3:41:50] Speaker 1: I think that goes without saying. So with that, then
[3:41:52] Speaker 1: what would be the most compelling evidence or argument for
[3:41:56] Speaker 1: the Christian God being real?
[3:41:58] Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing that pushes my faith is
[3:42:01] Speaker 2: the consistency of theology in the Bible.
[3:42:04] Speaker 1: Consistency of theology, you sure about it?
[3:42:06] Speaker 2: And then yeah, and the other thing that's really interesting
[3:42:10] Speaker 2: is I think that like, uh, what's it called the
[3:42:12] Speaker 2: theology that's presented in the Bible. So like, for example,
[3:42:17] Speaker 2: I think when I was so, I studied like a
[3:42:19] Speaker 2: lot of philosophy in high school, and then when I
[3:42:22] Speaker 2: moved to community college like a year before that, I
[3:42:25] Speaker 2: got into theology a lot just out of curiosity. And
[3:42:29] Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing for me was the argument
[3:42:33] Speaker 2: about like truth and like pure being, when it's like,
[3:42:36] Speaker 2: those are meaningless arguments.
[3:42:38] Speaker 1: You want to talk about the consistency of the Gospels
[3:42:41] Speaker 1: or the consistency of the Bible first, if you want
[3:42:44] Speaker 1: to great So, I don't think the Bible is consistent whatsoever.
[3:42:49] Speaker 1: And I think the clearest example of this is whether
[3:42:53] Speaker 1: or not Christians or even Jews should have to follow
[3:42:58] Speaker 1: the Law of Moses out Paul obviously thinks you shouldn't.
[3:43:03] Speaker 1: Jesus said you should. Uh. The Old Testament says that
[3:43:08] Speaker 1: you should, and you should do it forever. So this
[3:43:12] Speaker 1: is a problematic Like if the if the God of
[3:43:14] Speaker 1: the Old Testament says to follow the law forever and
[3:43:16] Speaker 1: that the law is perfect, then I see no reason
[3:43:20] Speaker 1: why Paul would come along and say the opposite.
[3:43:25] Speaker 2: That's not what the Bible says consistently. It's nobody says
[3:43:29] Speaker 2: it does. Let me show you if you want to.
[3:43:31] Speaker 2: But I think what I'm trying to say is like
[3:43:33] Speaker 2: the law is more of like a It's like a
[3:43:36] Speaker 2: It's like what is that one versus?
[3:43:38] Speaker 6: The law is given to people that.
[3:43:43] Speaker 2: Like perjuries or what is it? Like adulteries and stuff
[3:43:47] Speaker 2: like that. I have no idea.
[3:43:48] Speaker 1: It's like talking about so I'm talking about the the
[3:43:52] Speaker 1: Old Testament. God said that you should follow the law
[3:43:56] Speaker 1: literally forever. We'll bring up those verses for you. Sure.
[3:44:00] Speaker 2: Also in like one Timothy one eight to eleven, if
[3:44:02] Speaker 2: you want to bring up versus.
[3:44:05] Speaker 1: This is.
[3:44:06] Speaker 2: This is what it's saying is like the law is good.
[3:44:08] Speaker 2: And what I think what you kind of mean by
[3:44:10] Speaker 2: like perfect is it's basically saying like the law of
[3:44:14] Speaker 2: God or like yeah, it's basically like it's perfect. What
[3:44:17] Speaker 2: I mean to say is like what it's saying is
[3:44:20] Speaker 2: like the law is like a spiritual thing. It's like
[3:44:22] Speaker 2: this is given to who's like.
[3:44:23] Speaker 6: Ark in sin?
[3:44:24] Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
[3:44:25] Speaker 12: Yeah?
[3:44:25] Speaker 1: Yeah, and you believe everyone's in sin, so the law's
[3:44:28] Speaker 1: given everyone. Cool. So it says in Deuteronomy eleven, you
[3:44:31] Speaker 1: should love the lord'ry God. Therefore keep his charge, his decrees,
[3:44:34] Speaker 1: his ordinances, and his commandments always, and then keep it
[3:44:39] Speaker 1: for a perpetual covenant if you keep bringing Yeah, perpetual. Well,
[3:44:44] Speaker 1: he doesn't say that in Deuteronomy eleven, but dun only twelve.
[3:44:47] Speaker 2: Deuterony comes after Exodus. So go to second.
[3:44:50] Speaker 1: We're aware, we know how the books work. He says,
[3:44:53] Speaker 1: these are the statutes and ordinances that you must diligently
[3:44:56] Speaker 1: observe in the land that the Lord, the God of
[3:44:58] Speaker 1: your answerts, has given you to occupy all the days
[3:45:01] Speaker 1: that you live on the earth. So it seems to
[3:45:03] Speaker 1: be that the law is supposed to be for all
[3:45:05] Speaker 1: the days that they live on the earth, not temporary. Yeah,
[3:45:10] Speaker 1: but what is Sabbath? The Sabbath is the last day,
[3:45:13] Speaker 1: is the day of Reth?
[3:45:15] Speaker 2: No, No, I mean, like, was Sabbath eternal? So in
[3:45:18] Speaker 2: other words, I'm saying like this, Yeah, did Abraham practice Sabbath?
[3:45:22] Speaker 1: What I'm Well, Abraham didn't have the law yet, right,
[3:45:25] Speaker 1: so once once the law was given, God said to
[3:45:29] Speaker 1: fall the law forever. No one's saying that the Abraham
[3:45:32] Speaker 1: had the same law although it does say in the
[3:45:36] Speaker 1: Bible God did give commands to Abraham. We just don't
[3:45:41] Speaker 1: know exactly what all those commands are. Go to Exodus
[3:45:46] Speaker 1: thirty one to sixteen. Is it gonna talk about the
[3:45:50] Speaker 1: law being temporary, It's gonna talk about Sabbath, yeah, being
[3:45:55] Speaker 1: a permanent statue, just like Liviticus sixteen. Yeah, it's says therefore,
[3:46:00] Speaker 1: the Israelites shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout
[3:46:04] Speaker 1: their generations as a perpetual covenant. Yep.
[3:46:07] Speaker 4: Exactly.
[3:46:07] Speaker 2: So what does it mean by perpetual covenant and throughout
[3:46:10] Speaker 2: their generations?
[3:46:10] Speaker 1: Perpetual? All the generations you're making you're making my case
[3:46:18] Speaker 1: for me.
[3:46:20] Speaker 2: I'm not making ancas the children of Israel. So these
[3:46:24] Speaker 2: are the children that they will keep the Sabbath to
[3:46:28] Speaker 2: observe the Sabbath throughout their generations for a perpetual government.
[3:46:30] Speaker 1: I agree, Yes, the children of Israel. Yep. That's what
[3:46:33] Speaker 1: we're talking about the New Testament when it's talking about
[3:46:35] Speaker 1: the Sabbath. Let me see, Paul explicitly tells you that
[3:46:39] Speaker 1: you don't have to obey the Sabbath or the festivals
[3:46:43] Speaker 1: or circumcision.
[3:46:44] Speaker 6: Yeah, more than Hebrews.
[3:46:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, Hebrews says, says the same thing as Paul. That's
[3:46:50] Speaker 1: why it's a contradiction. What do you mean it's a contradiction.
[3:46:55] Speaker 1: The God of the Old Testament said to follow the
[3:46:57] Speaker 1: Law perpetually all the days that you live on the earth,
[3:47:00] Speaker 1: and Jesus himself agreed. Jesus says that he did not
[3:47:03] Speaker 1: come to abolish the law or the prophets.
[3:47:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, but you don't know, I mean, like, because you
[3:47:10] Speaker 2: can't really like take it like that. You gotta read
[3:47:11] Speaker 2: it in context.
[3:47:12] Speaker 1: I did. I've read the entire Bible in its entire context,
[3:47:15] Speaker 1: which is why I know this contradiction of a problem.
[3:47:18] Speaker 1: Matthew five seventeen. Do not think that I've come to
[3:47:21] Speaker 1: abolish the law or the prophets. I have not come
[3:47:24] Speaker 1: to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly, I tell you,
[3:47:27] Speaker 1: until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not
[3:47:30] Speaker 1: one stroke of letter, will pass away from the law
[3:47:33] Speaker 1: until all is accomplished. Therefore, whoever breaks one of the
[3:47:36] Speaker 1: least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same,
[3:47:39] Speaker 1: would be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But
[3:47:41] Speaker 1: whoever does them and teaches them will be called great
[3:47:44] Speaker 1: in the Kingdom of Heaven. So in Jesus's mind, whoever
[3:47:47] Speaker 1: does the commandments will be called great in the kingdom
[3:47:49] Speaker 1: of Heaven. That's why when the rich young ruler comes
[3:47:51] Speaker 1: to him and says, what must I do to have
[3:47:53] Speaker 1: eternal life? He says, you know what to do, follow
[3:47:55] Speaker 1: the commandments.
[3:48:01] Speaker 2: And hebrews, uh, there remains a sabbath rest for people
[3:48:06] Speaker 2: of God. Whoever has entered God's rest has also rested
[3:48:09] Speaker 2: from his words, as God did from his problem. Yeah,
[3:48:14] Speaker 2: but it's not saying like Sabbath as in like uh,
[3:48:17] Speaker 2: like the seventh Day.
[3:48:19] Speaker 1: Is like I didn't mention anything about the Sabbath.
[3:48:23] Speaker 2: Now you were you were bringing up like the law
[3:48:26] Speaker 2: or whatever.
[3:48:27] Speaker 1: And like the Law of Moses. Yeah, the Law of
[3:48:29] Speaker 1: Moses is a perpetual list of laws. There's there's not
[3:48:33] Speaker 1: a single thing in the Bible that says otherwise. In fact,
[3:48:35] Speaker 1: if you go to Deuteronomy thirty, God talks about the
[3:48:38] Speaker 1: period in which He's going to give you the circumcision
[3:48:42] Speaker 1: of the heart. And if you've read your Bible, you
[3:48:44] Speaker 1: know that when you get the circumcision of the heart,
[3:48:46] Speaker 1: that time period is, in fact, the New Covenant era. Right, sure,
[3:48:52] Speaker 1: Jeremiah says, It says, God's going to circumcise the foreskin
[3:48:55] Speaker 1: of your heart, not not of your flesh. Yeah, well,
[3:48:58] Speaker 1: according to Deuteronomy, when it happens, it's going to be
[3:49:01] Speaker 1: so that you can follow the law, says the Lord
[3:49:03] Speaker 1: your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of
[3:49:05] Speaker 1: your descendants, so that you will love the Lord your
[3:49:07] Speaker 1: God with all your heart, with all your soul, in
[3:49:08] Speaker 1: order that you may live. The Lord your God will
[3:49:11] Speaker 1: put all these curses on your enemies and on the
[3:49:13] Speaker 1: adversaries who took advantage of you. Then you shall again
[3:49:17] Speaker 1: obey the Lord, observing all of his commandments that I'm
[3:49:20] Speaker 1: commanding you today. Right. But God says during the period
[3:49:24] Speaker 1: of the circumcision of the heart that you need to
[3:49:26] Speaker 1: follow all the commandments. What is Sabbath like?
[3:49:31] Speaker 4: What is it?
[3:49:32] Speaker 2: What do you do on Sabbath?
[3:49:34] Speaker 1: It's a day of rest that is set apart, that
[3:49:37] Speaker 1: is holy to the Lord. In fact, if you don't
[3:49:39] Speaker 1: follow the Sabbath, God gets free upset with you. Sabbath
[3:49:42] Speaker 1: is it is not a metaphor for something. We know
[3:49:46] Speaker 1: exactly what Sabbath is. Sabbath is the seventh day.
[3:49:50] Speaker 2: Okay, the seventh day of rest and on the seventh
[3:49:53] Speaker 2: of sevenths or whatever, you know, you you free your slaves,
[3:49:56] Speaker 2: you forgive your debtors, blah blah blah blah blah and
[3:49:58] Speaker 2: what and this is it's still like not metaphoric. But
[3:50:01] Speaker 2: what's like a word I excuse is like in Genesis
[3:50:03] Speaker 2: it refers to like how you have like the days
[3:50:06] Speaker 2: of creation or whatever in the different days represent different things,
[3:50:08] Speaker 2: and it's like it's like, you know, references to that.
[3:50:11] Speaker 2: So when we use like the number seven, the number
[3:50:13] Speaker 2: seven has a meaning. So that's what you didn't fix anything,
[3:50:20] Speaker 2: no mention. So I just want to make sure, make
[3:50:22] Speaker 2: sure you're following the conversation so far. So I'm reading
[3:50:25] Speaker 2: you verses where God explicitly says that you're going to
[3:50:29] Speaker 2: follow the law and you're gonna do it forever, including
[3:50:33] Speaker 2: the period of time in which I circumcise the hearts
[3:50:36] Speaker 2: of the people. That time period includes keeping the commandments. Yeah,
[3:50:44] Speaker 2: so I need you to address the actual Bible passages
[3:50:47] Speaker 2: that we're reading and stop pivoting.
[3:50:48] Speaker 1: To new Bible passages. I'm not denying that, Okay, So
[3:50:52] Speaker 1: if if in fact it's true that even in the
[3:50:56] Speaker 1: New Covenant era, they're going to have to follow the
[3:50:58] Speaker 1: laws of Moses. As we see in Ezekiel forty five
[3:51:02] Speaker 1: when God talks about when the Mischiat comes, he's going
[3:51:05] Speaker 1: to offer sin sacrifices with the people bowls lambs in
[3:51:10] Speaker 1: a physical altar. Ezekiel, have you not head Ezekiel versus versus.
[3:51:16] Speaker 1: There's a bunch of them. Yeah. In fact, for before
[3:51:22] Speaker 1: we get the forty five, go one back to forty four.
[3:51:25] Speaker 1: God literally says the gentiles have to be circumcised. It says, thus,
[3:51:29] Speaker 1: say it, the Lord, Lord God, no foreigner uncircumcised in
[3:51:34] Speaker 1: heart or flesh, of all the foreigners who are among
[3:51:37] Speaker 1: the people of Israel shall enter my sanctuary. You got,
[3:51:40] Speaker 1: You've got to get circumcised with the direction of forty
[3:51:44] Speaker 1: four nine.
[3:51:45] Speaker 2: Forty four four or forty four okay, and then what's.
[3:51:50] Speaker 6: What what is it?
[3:51:51] Speaker 1: What? Ezekiel forty four nine. Yeah, but this is old.
[3:52:08] Speaker 1: I know it's a prophecy for the future. I know. Okay,
[3:52:13] Speaker 1: how about in Daniel, But we're not in Daniel yet,
[3:52:16] Speaker 1: we're in Ezekiel address Ezekiel. Okay. So in Ezekiel he
[3:52:21] Speaker 1: talks about foreigners coming to worship with in fact the Israelites,
[3:52:25] Speaker 1: and he says they have to be circumcised in the
[3:52:27] Speaker 1: heart and the flesh. Well, if the circumcision of the
[3:52:30] Speaker 1: heart is in fact the New Covenant era, as we
[3:52:32] Speaker 1: learn in Jeremiah and in Deuteronomy thirty, what that means
[3:52:39] Speaker 1: is that the Gentiles do need to be circumcised, which
[3:52:42] Speaker 1: is crazy because Paul says in Galatians that if you
[3:52:45] Speaker 1: take the marks of circumcision, Christ is of no use
[3:52:47] Speaker 1: to you.
[3:52:52] Speaker 2: Yeah, because you're being raised out from the elements.
[3:52:55] Speaker 1: That exactly, that's the point. That's why Paul is in
[3:52:58] Speaker 1: disagreement with the entire rest of the Bible.
[3:53:02] Speaker 6: But I don't think it disagrees with anything it does.
[3:53:05] Speaker 1: If God says the foreigners will be circumcised in the
[3:53:08] Speaker 1: flesh and Paul tells you not to circumcise your flesh,
[3:53:13] Speaker 1: Paul disagrees with God, Well, you're still circumcised, like, okay, well,
[3:53:18] Speaker 1: I guess now it's gonna like circumcision is like of
[3:53:21] Speaker 1: the heart, right, so with the flesh well and heart
[3:53:25] Speaker 1: of the flesh though, Okay, but what do you what
[3:53:29] Speaker 1: do you mean? What are you saying circumcision of the
[3:53:31] Speaker 1: flesh is when you remove the foreskin of your pen.
[3:53:34] Speaker 4: I know what that is.
[3:53:35] Speaker 2: That's not okay, okay, So in ThinQ forty four nine
[3:53:39] Speaker 2: does say the Lord no stranger, uncircumcised in heart nor flesh, no.
[3:53:45] Speaker 1: Heart or flesh, or some translations like the NRSV says and.
[3:53:50] Speaker 1: But the reality is that the vob consecutive in the
[3:53:53] Speaker 1: Hebrew sentence could be and or or it stands for
[3:53:57] Speaker 1: either one. I prefer the translation that says or. But
[3:54:00] Speaker 1: it doesn't matter.
[3:54:03] Speaker 2: Okay, what's your point?
[3:54:05] Speaker 1: My point is, according to Ezekiel forty four to nine,
[3:54:09] Speaker 1: when we have the restored Temple, the restored land of Israel,
[3:54:13] Speaker 1: and the Messiah comes, the Gentiles have to get circumcised
[3:54:17] Speaker 1: and they have to entertain the offerings alongside the Israelites. Say,
[3:54:22] Speaker 1: they shall be my ministers in my sanctuary, having oversight
[3:54:26] Speaker 1: at the gates of the temple, serving in the temple,
[3:54:28] Speaker 1: they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifice for
[3:54:31] Speaker 1: the people. They shall attend to them and serve them,
[3:54:34] Speaker 1: and they'll like There's three more chapters that goes on
[3:54:37] Speaker 1: talking about the various sacrifices.
[3:54:40] Speaker 2: This is the second temporary.
[3:54:43] Speaker 1: No, I don't think so if you I mean, it
[3:54:45] Speaker 1: depends on your reading of the text. If you're a Jew.
[3:54:48] Speaker 1: There was a time period that they thought that this
[3:54:50] Speaker 1: was the Second Temple. But in order to do that,
[3:54:53] Speaker 1: then you have to go through and throw this out
[3:54:56] Speaker 1: because if you read this portion of Ezekiel, this is
[3:54:59] Speaker 1: the time I'm of the mischiak. There is an actual
[3:55:02] Speaker 1: Messiah here. The problem is it didn't come true during
[3:55:06] Speaker 1: a second Temple. So the majority of Jews agree that
[3:55:10] Speaker 1: this is not a Second Temple prophecy, but for the
[3:55:13] Speaker 1: end that when the massac actually comes. Okay. One thing
[3:55:18] Speaker 1: is though, like, okay, so I'm hearing you like, I'll,
[3:55:21] Speaker 1: you know, I'll read this.
[3:55:22] Speaker 2: Back for your sake and out of curiosity because maybe
[3:55:26] Speaker 2: you know, who knows. Maybe you're right, maybe I'm wrong.
[3:55:28] Speaker 2: But what I would would say is like I don't
[3:55:32] Speaker 2: really trust like modern day Judaism, so I'm not gonna well,
[3:55:36] Speaker 2: Jews believe.
[3:55:37] Speaker 1: The same thing.
[3:55:38] Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, what do you mean the same thing?
[3:55:40] Speaker 1: What do you I mean if you just read the
[3:55:42] Speaker 1: writings of the ancient rabbis, like open up the Talmud.
[3:55:45] Speaker 1: They no, no, no, no, no, say that's what I
[3:55:47] Speaker 1: mean by modern day Judaism like everything after the Talmud.
[3:55:49] Speaker 2: I don't believe why because it's not the same Judaism
[3:55:54] Speaker 2: that was practiced like during Christ's time.
[3:55:56] Speaker 1: How could you possibly know what documents are using to
[3:55:59] Speaker 1: verify by that? Because the Tumut is like, what documents
[3:56:03] Speaker 1: are you using to verify that the Jews didn't believe
[3:56:06] Speaker 1: what they wrote in the Talmud? Because if you read it,
[3:56:10] Speaker 1: it doesn't We'll try again. What documents, physical documents are
[3:56:16] Speaker 1: you reading that in fact tells you the Jews believed
[3:56:20] Speaker 1: something different.
[3:56:23] Speaker 6: The Bible?
[3:56:23] Speaker 1: How about that?
[3:56:24] Speaker 6: Well, the Bible and the Talmud, they're not consistent with
[3:56:26] Speaker 6: each other.
[3:56:27] Speaker 1: I know, I agree, the Bible and the Talmud aren't
[3:56:29] Speaker 1: consistent with each other. According to the Talmud, Jesus was
[3:56:32] Speaker 1: crucified and had forty days of warning, and in fact,
[3:56:37] Speaker 1: it says that he was stoned before he was he
[3:56:40] Speaker 1: was actually crucified. And it turns out that that's not
[3:56:43] Speaker 1: what the Bible says. But I don't to me, like
[3:56:46] Speaker 1: all this is special pleading. You're just saying, well, the
[3:56:49] Speaker 1: Talmid can't be true because the Bible said so. And
[3:56:51] Speaker 1: I'm going to say, well, the Bible's not true because
[3:56:53] Speaker 1: the Talmud said so. So there you go. Argument.
[3:56:57] Speaker 2: Let's know, what's what I'm plaming. I'm saying is like this, Okay,
[3:57:00] Speaker 2: the New Testament of the Bible. The Jews don't believe
[3:57:03] Speaker 2: in the New Testament. So because the New Testament, okay,
[3:57:08] Speaker 2: whatever you want to say, what they don't believe in
[3:57:10] Speaker 2: Jesus right.
[3:57:13] Speaker 1: Also, Ezekiel is about the Messiah. Ezekiel forty three to
[3:57:18] Speaker 1: seven says that He's gonna reside there. God is going
[3:57:21] Speaker 1: to reside there forever. The Restored Temple, the Restored Jerusalem
[3:57:25] Speaker 1: says I will reside among my people of Israel forever
[3:57:31] Speaker 1: forty three to nine. Let them put away their idolatry
[3:57:34] Speaker 1: and sacrifices to their king far from me, and I
[3:57:37] Speaker 1: will reside among them forever. Forty three to seven says
[3:57:41] Speaker 1: the same thing, mortal. This is the place of my
[3:57:44] Speaker 1: throne and the place for the soles of my feet,
[3:57:47] Speaker 1: where I will reside among the people of Israel forever. Now,
[3:57:50] Speaker 1: obviously that didn't come true during the Second Temple period,
[3:57:53] Speaker 1: did it? And now you know why Jews treat this
[3:57:59] Speaker 1: as an end time times messianic prophecy. Is because it
[3:58:02] Speaker 1: didn't come true. Now, an atheist could read this and say, yes,
[3:58:06] Speaker 1: this sounds like a prediction for the Second Temple and
[3:58:08] Speaker 1: it didn't come true because the God's not real. That's
[3:58:11] Speaker 1: how I would read it. Now you can't do that.
[3:58:14] Speaker 1: You think it is real, which means if this is
[3:58:16] Speaker 1: a real prophecy that just didn't come true, then you
[3:58:20] Speaker 1: have to kick it back and say this is the
[3:58:22] Speaker 1: time of the Messiah.
[3:58:27] Speaker 2: One second reading the verses. Yeah, but just because it says, well,
[3:58:44] Speaker 2: this is the thing, like I have to read. I'd
[3:58:46] Speaker 2: probably have to reread these chapters to really debate you
[3:58:48] Speaker 2: on these. But just because it says like son of Man,
[3:58:52] Speaker 2: like it's being mentioned, but it doesn't.
[3:58:54] Speaker 1: I mean, at least I.
[3:58:55] Speaker 2: Don't see any parts where it's saying like.
[3:58:58] Speaker 1: This is in the time of the Son of Man,
[3:59:01] Speaker 1: because the son of Man is not a reference to
[3:59:03] Speaker 1: the Messiah. In the Book of Ezekiel, the son of
[3:59:05] Speaker 1: Man is a reference to the Prophet himself. The Messiah
[3:59:09] Speaker 1: in this is referred to as the King and is
[3:59:11] Speaker 1: also referred to as a prince, although prince in English
[3:59:15] Speaker 1: has like multiple meanings, and we can tell that this
[3:59:19] Speaker 1: is overtly Messianic because it follows the arrival of the
[3:59:23] Speaker 1: Messiah in Ezekiel thirty seven. To go to Ezekiel thirty seven,
[3:59:27] Speaker 1: in fact thirty six as well, what you'll find is
[3:59:31] Speaker 1: what I would consider an overt reference to the Messiah.
[3:59:35] Speaker 1: Wait chapter thirty six, thirty six and thirty seven. But
[3:59:39] Speaker 1: we're gonna read from thirty seven first. Okay, thirty seven
[3:59:43] Speaker 1: and twenty four says my servant David shall be king
[3:59:49] Speaker 1: over them. They shall all have one shepherd. They shall
[3:59:52] Speaker 1: follow my ordinances and be careful to observe my statutes.
[3:59:55] Speaker 1: That's the law of Moses. They shall live in the
[3:59:58] Speaker 1: land that I gave to my servant Jake up, in
[4:00:00] Speaker 1: which your ancestors lived. You're in thirty seven, yep, thirty seven,
[4:00:06] Speaker 1: twenty four.
[4:00:08] Speaker 2: What translation are you using?
[4:00:10] Speaker 1: I'm in the NRSV.
[4:00:13] Speaker 2: Okay, let me switch to you real quick, because mine
[4:00:16] Speaker 2: is like butchering me. I'm not even at the same.
[4:00:23] Speaker 1: Okay, continue, awesome, says my servant David shall be king
[4:00:27] Speaker 1: over them. They shall have one shepherd. They shall follow
[4:00:29] Speaker 1: my ordinances and be careful to observe my statutes. They
[4:00:32] Speaker 1: shall live in the land that I gave to my
[4:00:33] Speaker 1: servant Jacob, in which your ancestors lived, They and their
[4:00:36] Speaker 1: children and their children's children shall live there forever, and
[4:00:39] Speaker 1: my servant David will be their prince forever. So the
[4:00:43] Speaker 1: Misshiak in the book of Ezekiel, the king is the Prince.
[4:00:49] Speaker 1: That the prince and the king are the same person
[4:00:52] Speaker 1: in this book, and the Prince keeps showing up after
[4:00:55] Speaker 1: this chapter doing things that contradict the New Testament, like,
[4:01:00] Speaker 1: for example, it says the prince is going to preside
[4:01:02] Speaker 1: over the actual sin offering and is an actual animal sacrifice.
[4:01:11] Speaker 2: So isn't that my case?
[4:01:13] Speaker 1: No, it's the opposite of your case, because he tells
[4:01:15] Speaker 1: you how to what animals to slaughter.
[4:01:20] Speaker 2: Okay, And what about in Daniel when it's like talks
[4:01:24] Speaker 2: about the the fulfillment.
[4:01:27] Speaker 1: I there's not a book of the Bible I love
[4:01:30] Speaker 1: more than the Book of Daniel. But we need to
[4:01:32] Speaker 1: come to some clarity on Ezekiel first. Okay.
[4:01:35] Speaker 2: I haven't read most of Ezekiel yet, so I gotta
[4:01:38] Speaker 2: do this over.
[4:01:39] Speaker 1: Okay. So in the Book of Ezekiel, during the Messianic Age,
[4:01:43] Speaker 1: there's actual Laws of Moses, there's an actual temple where
[4:01:47] Speaker 1: God resides in and in fact they're following all the laws.
[4:01:51] Speaker 1: In Verse forty six says the prince shall enter by
[4:01:54] Speaker 1: the vestibule vestibule. I can't say the word you're Catholic.
[4:01:58] Speaker 1: You know the word vestibule of the gate from the outside,
[4:02:01] Speaker 1: and shall take his stand by the post of the gate.
[4:02:05] Speaker 1: The priest shall offer his burnt offering and his offerings
[4:02:08] Speaker 1: of well being, and shall bow down at the entryway
[4:02:11] Speaker 1: of the gate. Then he shall go out, and the
[4:02:12] Speaker 1: gate shall not be closed. And there's all kinds of
[4:02:14] Speaker 1: stuff in here about what to offer. Six slams without blemish,
[4:02:18] Speaker 1: horam without These are right actual animals, God saying, when
[4:02:23] Speaker 1: the when the prince comes, we're killing animals. Buddy, put
[4:02:27] Speaker 1: on what chapter forty six, the very next chapter after
[4:02:33] Speaker 1: forty five?
[4:02:34] Speaker 2: Sorry, and then versus what number verse goes first?
[4:02:42] Speaker 1: I would just start at forty six, verse one and
[4:02:45] Speaker 1: just read a couple of paragraphs. So good, pretty good,
[4:02:47] Speaker 1: flavor what I'm talking about? All right, Now we've established that,
[4:03:12] Speaker 1: what do you want to say about Daniel?
[4:03:15] Speaker 2: Go to Daniel nine. I think it's nine to twenty.
[4:03:18] Speaker 1: I love Daniel. Before we started in Daniel, maybe let's
[4:03:21] Speaker 1: lay a groundwork to make our conversation shorter. Okay, So
[4:03:25] Speaker 1: in the Book of Daniel, when is he writing, I'm
[4:03:28] Speaker 1: not sure. Well, I know it's like pretty like hundreds
[4:03:32] Speaker 1: of years or whatever. Yeah, according to the narrative itself,
[4:03:35] Speaker 1: he's writing in the first year of King Dearias, which
[4:03:39] Speaker 1: is if you if you think it's Derias that everyone
[4:03:44] Speaker 1: thinks it is, then it's in fact about five twenty
[4:03:47] Speaker 1: two BCE. So he's writing just after the seventy years
[4:03:52] Speaker 1: have passed that were predicted in Jeremiah twenty five and
[4:03:56] Speaker 1: twenty nine. Jeremiah says that they're going to be in
[4:03:59] Speaker 1: the land of exile for seventy years and then they're
[4:04:02] Speaker 1: all going to come back. In fact, says the same
[4:04:04] Speaker 1: thing in Jeremiah thirty one. Now seventy years have passed,
[4:04:08] Speaker 1: that started roughly six oh five, and now we're in
[4:04:11] Speaker 1: five twenty two, and he's like, hey, what gives what's
[4:04:15] Speaker 1: the problem? Right, we're not restored yet. And then we
[4:04:19] Speaker 1: get the reason for that, right if you read in
[4:04:22] Speaker 1: the beginning of Jerema beginning of Daniel, he talks about
[4:04:26] Speaker 1: why this is the case. He says, all Israel has
[4:04:29] Speaker 1: transgressed your law and turned aside refusing to obey your voice.
[4:04:32] Speaker 1: So the curse and the oath written in the law
[4:04:36] Speaker 1: of Moses, the servant of God, has been poured out
[4:04:39] Speaker 1: upon us because we have sinned against you. So what
[4:04:41] Speaker 1: he's saying is the prophecy of Jeremiah didn't come true.
[4:04:45] Speaker 1: The reason why it didn't come true is because of
[4:04:48] Speaker 1: this other thing he told Moses long ago. And the
[4:04:51] Speaker 1: thing that he told Moses long ago shows up in
[4:04:55] Speaker 1: the Book of Deuteronomy, but also shows up very clearly
[4:04:57] Speaker 1: in Levitica's twenty six where he talks about this period.
[4:05:03] Speaker 1: When he sends them an eggs ow, he says, if
[4:05:04] Speaker 1: you will not obey me and do not observe all
[4:05:07] Speaker 1: of these commandments, if you spurn my statutes and abhor
[4:05:11] Speaker 1: my ordinances so that you will not observe all of
[4:05:13] Speaker 1: my commandments and you break my covenant, I in turn
[4:05:15] Speaker 1: will do this to you. And he tells about all
[4:05:17] Speaker 1: the horrible things I'll do to you, and then he says,
[4:05:21] Speaker 1: he continues, he says, I'll multiply your sufferings by seven right,
[4:05:26] Speaker 1: So verse eighteen, he says, and in spite of this,
[4:05:31] Speaker 1: I'm sorry. And if in spite of this, you will
[4:05:34] Speaker 1: not obey me. I will continue to punish you sevenfold
[4:05:37] Speaker 1: for your sins. So Daniel in chapter nine is putting together, Oh,
[4:05:42] Speaker 1: it's not going to be for seventy years, It's going
[4:05:45] Speaker 1: to be seventy times seven. Follow ool. Okay, Now, if
[4:05:51] Speaker 1: the time of punishment for Israel is going to be
[4:05:54] Speaker 1: four hundred and ninety years at seventy times seven, then
[4:05:57] Speaker 1: it starts in six oh five. That matches the whole
[4:06:01] Speaker 1: context of the passage, and it matches even what is
[4:06:05] Speaker 1: said about the seventy weeks. It says that a word
[4:06:08] Speaker 1: went out. Well, the word that they're referring to, one
[4:06:12] Speaker 1: of them is the prophecy of Jeremiah. It's even in
[4:06:14] Speaker 1: the past tense that the prophecy of Jeremiah was roughly
[4:06:18] Speaker 1: six oh five. Right, So if we're just counting four
[4:06:22] Speaker 1: hundred and ninety years, the prophecy ends at like one
[4:06:26] Speaker 1: fifteen BCE or one thirteen. I have to do the
[4:06:31] Speaker 1: math again, right, So it doesn't get you anywhere near Jesus,
[4:06:36] Speaker 1: not even close.
[4:06:42] Speaker 2: And yeah, one fifteen that was right. Wait, wait, can
[4:06:44] Speaker 2: you tell me again what your argument was about the
[4:06:49] Speaker 2: the uh you were saying, I can't. I can't put
[4:06:52] Speaker 2: my words together. You were saying something about how it's
[4:06:57] Speaker 2: it's basically referring to like a different period, and then
[4:07:01] Speaker 2: it's saying that this is going to happen in this period.
[4:07:04] Speaker 1: Right the prophecy. First of all, if the prophecy was
[4:07:08] Speaker 1: written in the middle of the second century, during the
[4:07:10] Speaker 1: middle of the Maccabeean revolt, or just before the Maccabean revolt,
[4:07:14] Speaker 1: maybe when a Tyke's Epiphanes was out there fucking everybody up. Now,
[4:07:19] Speaker 1: the reality is it's pretending to be written in about
[4:07:22] Speaker 1: five twenty two. And what they're attempting to do is
[4:07:26] Speaker 1: explain why the prophecy of Jeremiah didn't come true. The
[4:07:30] Speaker 1: Prophecy of Jeremiah said seventy years. In fact, it says,
[4:07:33] Speaker 1: first nine, I'm sorry, chapter nine, verse one, in the
[4:07:37] Speaker 1: first year of Duriah's son of Akasiris by birth a Mead,
[4:07:42] Speaker 1: who became king over the realm of the Chaudeans. I
[4:07:45] Speaker 1: Daniel perceived in the books of the numbers, sorry, perceived
[4:07:50] Speaker 1: in the books the number of years that, according to
[4:07:52] Speaker 1: the word of the Lord to the prophet Jeremiah must
[4:07:55] Speaker 1: be fulfilled for the devastation of Jerusalem, namely seventy years.
[4:07:59] Speaker 1: So he's saying, listen, I'm written the book of Jeremiah.
[4:08:01] Speaker 1: Jeremiah says, our years of devastation are going to be seventy. Now,
[4:08:06] Speaker 1: that didn't come true. They didn't get restored after seventy.
[4:08:08] Speaker 2: Years, So Jeremiah's.
[4:08:14] Speaker 1: That's gonna be Jeremiah Jeremiah twenty nine, and even shows
[4:08:18] Speaker 1: up in Jeremiah twenty five. Okay, in fact, let me
[4:08:22] Speaker 1: go to the first one, Jeremiah twenty five eleven. It says,
[4:08:27] Speaker 1: this whole land shall become a ruin and a waste,
[4:08:29] Speaker 1: and these nations shall serve the King of Babylon for
[4:08:33] Speaker 1: seventy years. Then after seventy years are completed, I will
[4:08:37] Speaker 1: punish the King of Babylon and that nation and the
[4:08:40] Speaker 1: land of the Chowdeans for their iniquity, says the Lord,
[4:08:43] Speaker 1: making the land an everlasting waste. And then he talks
[4:08:47] Speaker 1: further about the restoration of Israel. So the idea is
[4:08:51] Speaker 1: that after seventy years, they're going to come back and
[4:08:54] Speaker 1: they're going to be restored. And he says the same
[4:08:59] Speaker 1: thing in chapter twenty nine, verse ten. Thus say it
[4:09:02] Speaker 1: the Lord only when Babylon's seventy years are completed, Will
[4:09:07] Speaker 1: I visit you and I will fulfill to you my
[4:09:09] Speaker 1: promise and bring you back to this place. For surely
[4:09:12] Speaker 1: I know the plans that I have for you, says
[4:09:14] Speaker 1: the Lord, plans for your welfare, not for harm, to
[4:09:17] Speaker 1: give you a future and hope. So the idea is
[4:09:19] Speaker 1: that after seventy years, God's going to round them all up,
[4:09:22] Speaker 1: bring them back, restore them to the land five point
[4:09:25] Speaker 1: twenty two. Daniel's sitting in Babylon. He's like, Hey, the
[4:09:29] Speaker 1: fock's going on over here. Things ain't restored, right, Yeah,
[4:09:38] Speaker 1: That's why I'm still reading. So the question we have
[4:09:42] Speaker 1: to answer is what is Daniel doing. What's the purpose
[4:09:46] Speaker 1: of this chapter. The purpose of the chapter is to
[4:09:48] Speaker 1: explain how long the time of suffering is supposed to
[4:09:52] Speaker 1: be for when is God finally going to do the
[4:09:54] Speaker 1: stuff he promised? And according to Daniel, it's going to
[4:09:57] Speaker 1: be after four hundred and ninety years of suffering, which
[4:10:00] Speaker 1: starts in six oh five when Nebuknezer came in and
[4:10:03] Speaker 1: started deporting people from the land of Judea.
[4:10:09] Speaker 2: Would you agree that Daniel talks about the Messiah? No,
[4:10:15] Speaker 2: what about in they like the anointed one.
[4:10:18] Speaker 1: There's two of them. There's two anointed ones, and they're
[4:10:20] Speaker 1: separated by like sixty two weeks. Says, No, therefore, and
[4:10:23] Speaker 1: understand from the time that the word went out, meaning
[4:10:26] Speaker 1: it already went out in the past. That's the word
[4:10:28] Speaker 1: of Jeremiah.
[4:10:31] Speaker 2: My translation says, goes out.
[4:10:33] Speaker 1: But continue right, No, therefore and understand from the time
[4:10:37] Speaker 1: that the word went out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem
[4:10:40] Speaker 1: until the time of an anointed prince. It says, an
[4:10:43] Speaker 1: anointed prince, not the Messiah. There shall be seven weeks.
[4:10:47] Speaker 2: An annointed one for me. But just translation continue right.
[4:10:50] Speaker 1: Well, a mishiak Negid is an anointed leader. They use
[4:10:54] Speaker 1: the word prince here for Negid, but it could be
[4:10:57] Speaker 1: just translated as leader, right, So it could be it
[4:11:02] Speaker 1: could be the rubbable who knows, but it's a person.
[4:11:04] Speaker 1: It's an anointed person whose goal is to lead people.
[4:11:09] Speaker 1: So he says, this is going to happen after the
[4:11:11] Speaker 1: first seven weeks, right, yeah, Okay, Now then there's a
[4:11:18] Speaker 1: huge I mean.
[4:11:21] Speaker 2: Yeah, you could read like seven and then seven like
[4:11:25] Speaker 2: seven seven, so with like seven weeks. But I don't
[4:11:28] Speaker 2: know how to read these, like you know, with some.
[4:11:31] Speaker 1: Sort of well it's it's four hundred and ninety years. Okay, sure, right,
[4:11:37] Speaker 1: says so after I mean forty nine Sorry, there's forty
[4:11:41] Speaker 1: nine years. Seven times seven is my math?
[4:11:44] Speaker 6: Right?
[4:11:44] Speaker 1: Seven times seven? Forty nine? Shit, now I got it.
[4:11:46] Speaker 1: I've been too long, all right, forty nine years. Okay,
[4:11:51] Speaker 1: I'm not crazy. Okay, So after forty nine years we
[4:11:54] Speaker 1: get the first anointed person, the leader, right, and let
[4:11:59] Speaker 1: me get back in the blah blah blah blah yep
[4:12:04] Speaker 1: of an anointed prince. There shall be seven weeks and
[4:12:08] Speaker 1: for sixty two weeks it shall be built again with
[4:12:10] Speaker 1: streets and a moat. But in a time of trouble
[4:12:13] Speaker 1: or a trouble time, you're in what translation, I'm in
[4:12:17] Speaker 1: the NRSV. Okay, right. So then it says in twenty six,
[4:12:29] Speaker 1: after sixty two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut
[4:12:33] Speaker 1: off and shall have nothing. This is another anointed person,
[4:12:38] Speaker 1: and it doesn't even say that they're a leader. It's
[4:12:40] Speaker 1: just an anointed person. So by all accounts, this is
[4:12:45] Speaker 1: not the Messiah. It's just a person who's anointed for
[4:12:48] Speaker 1: some reason, whether to be a leader or to be
[4:12:51] Speaker 1: a prophet, or to be a priest. The priests were anointed,
[4:12:54] Speaker 1: and I think it's a priest, and I'll tell you
[4:12:56] Speaker 1: why I think that. Twenty six it says after sixty
[4:12:58] Speaker 1: two weeks an anointed one shall be cut off and
[4:13:01] Speaker 1: shall have nothing. Well, we know that according to the
[4:13:03] Speaker 1: actual history, this anointed one seems to be Onias to third.
[4:13:08] Speaker 1: So this whole thing is talking about the time period
[4:13:11] Speaker 1: of Entairekis Epiphanies, which you can read about in first
[4:13:14] Speaker 1: mccabee's chapter one, in chapter two, and second maccabee's chapter four,
[4:13:19] Speaker 1: and even in Josephus. Josephus writes about this, how this
[4:13:23] Speaker 1: prophecy is about Anti Kis Epiphanies coming in, destroying the
[4:13:27] Speaker 1: temple and lighting the city on fire, massacring the people.
[4:13:33] Speaker 1: And then the Maccabean revolt happened and they gained victory
[4:13:37] Speaker 1: after a period of three and a half years. And
[4:13:40] Speaker 1: during during the reign of Antai Kis Epiphanies, they set
[4:13:44] Speaker 1: up the abomination of desolation on the altar. Right, So
[4:13:48] Speaker 1: everything here is about Antai kis Epiphanies. They thought, once
[4:13:52] Speaker 1: we finally got rid of Antai Kis Epiphanies, this prophecy
[4:13:55] Speaker 1: would come true. So they were looking at the prophecy saying, yes,
[4:13:58] Speaker 1: four hundred and ninety years or at least close damn
[4:14:01] Speaker 1: to it, and they're like, look, that lines up a
[4:14:04] Speaker 1: lot with what's happening right now in tay Kis Epiphanies.
[4:14:07] Speaker 1: This guy's evil, he's the worst, and they wrote a
[4:14:10] Speaker 1: whole narrative about how God's going to deal with him.
[4:14:12] Speaker 1: And then when he finally deals with this most unpleasant heathen,
[4:14:18] Speaker 1: finally will be in the time period where God fixes
[4:14:20] Speaker 1: all things, because the four hundred and ninety years will
[4:14:22] Speaker 1: be passed. And of course it didn't come true.
[4:14:31] Speaker 4: Right.
[4:14:31] Speaker 1: He says he shall make a strong covenant with many
[4:14:33] Speaker 1: for one week, and for half of the week he
[4:14:35] Speaker 1: shall make sacrifice and offering cease, exactly what it says
[4:14:38] Speaker 1: in First and Second Mecabees. It tells you exactly that.
[4:14:42] Speaker 1: It even describes in Tayker's Epiphanies the same way Daniel
[4:14:47] Speaker 1: describes in tay Kis throughout the book as speaking great
[4:14:50] Speaker 1: arrogancies and boasting himself above God, which is how he's
[4:14:55] Speaker 1: described elsewhere in the literature. Right, So there's there's no way, sorry.
[4:15:03] Speaker 2: Go ahead, because I'm just looking at like differences in translations.
[4:15:18] Speaker 2: This is nrs V.
[4:15:20] Speaker 1: I'm in the NRSV updated edition, but it's it's roughly
[4:15:23] Speaker 1: the same as the non updated edition.
[4:15:26] Speaker 2: I just oh, I just went to like, uh yeah,
[4:15:32] Speaker 2: I think I'm in the same one as you.
[4:15:35] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[4:15:36] Speaker 2: So NIV doesn't.
[4:15:39] Speaker 1: Say, uh no, NRSV, I know, but.
[4:15:45] Speaker 2: I'm using I mean, that's why because I'm looking at
[4:15:48] Speaker 2: different ones as well. Why because they're different fair enough.
[4:15:53] Speaker 1: So in first Maccabee's one thirty, speaking of and Tie Kiss,
[4:15:57] Speaker 1: this is deceitfully. He spoke peaceable words to them, and
[4:16:00] Speaker 1: they believed him, but he suddenly fell upon the city,
[4:16:04] Speaker 1: dealt as a severe blow, destroyed many of the people
[4:16:06] Speaker 1: of Israel. And then it goes on to describe all
[4:16:09] Speaker 1: the destruction he did to the temple and to the
[4:16:12] Speaker 1: people of Israel, and even lighting the city on fire
[4:16:15] Speaker 1: and deporting some of the people the same way we
[4:16:18] Speaker 1: read in Daniel nine right says he shall make a
[4:16:22] Speaker 1: strong covenant with many. That's Jason. If you read second
[4:16:25] Speaker 1: first and second mccabee's after he they killed Onias to
[4:16:29] Speaker 1: third he makes a covenant with Jason to end all
[4:16:32] Speaker 1: the sacrifices and offerings because he and Jason, through treachery,
[4:16:38] Speaker 1: takes hold of the high priesthood after the death of Onias,
[4:16:42] Speaker 1: and he says, yeah, we'll get rid of the sacrifices
[4:16:44] Speaker 1: and offerings. Let's fuck that stuff right. But then only
[4:16:48] Speaker 1: a couple of years later the Macabeen revolt happens and
[4:16:51] Speaker 1: they get restored. Says for half a week they shall
[4:16:54] Speaker 1: make sacrifice and offerings sea such three and a half years,
[4:16:57] Speaker 1: and then their place shall be a desolating sacrilege until
[4:16:59] Speaker 1: the freed end is poured out upon the descilator. The
[4:17:02] Speaker 1: desolator is an individual that's a person, and it happens
[4:17:07] Speaker 1: to be in Tyker's epiphanies. Do you have a Bible
[4:17:22] Speaker 1: that contains the Apocryphone?
[4:17:26] Speaker 2: I have like a King James, but I need to
[4:17:28] Speaker 2: buy like a.
[4:17:31] Speaker 4: I don't know.
[4:17:32] Speaker 2: I don't like King James. It's hard to read.
[4:17:34] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you, but you know you can buy
[4:17:36] Speaker 1: a King James with the apocrypha. Originally, for like the
[4:17:39] Speaker 1: first three hundred and fifty years they published it with
[4:17:41] Speaker 1: the Apocrypha in it. They didn't take it out to
[4:17:43] Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds. I've got an eighteen twenty two King
[4:17:46] Speaker 1: James on the michelf behind me that still contains the Apocryphone.
[4:17:51] Speaker 2: Why did they take it out? It's because it's Protestant, right.
[4:17:54] Speaker 1: Well, kind of. There's a lot of reasons why they
[4:17:57] Speaker 1: took it out. It seems like the biggest impetus was
[4:18:01] Speaker 1: because during the Reformation period a lot of people didn't
[4:18:05] Speaker 1: know if it should be canonical, and a lot of
[4:18:08] Speaker 1: people kind of changed their minds onto whether or not
[4:18:11] Speaker 1: it was going to be canonical. And one of the
[4:18:12] Speaker 1: biggest reasons why fundamentalists ended up taking it out was
[4:18:17] Speaker 1: because they saw it as distinctly Catholic. Oh, you don't
[4:18:21] Speaker 1: believe in these things unless you're Catholic, and you're not Catholic,
[4:18:24] Speaker 1: you shouldn't be reading towards the books a little bit. Yeah,
[4:18:28] Speaker 1: And the reality is there's quite a few Catholic doctrines
[4:18:32] Speaker 1: that go away if you get rid of the Apocrypha,
[4:18:35] Speaker 1: like the idea of purgatory. It only shows up in
[4:18:37] Speaker 1: the Apocrypha, does not really show up in the Old Testament.
[4:18:41] Speaker 1: And so people who didn't believe in some of this
[4:18:43] Speaker 1: stuff found that eliminating the Apocrypha could get them to
[4:18:48] Speaker 1: a point that they would preferably be I got to
[4:18:51] Speaker 1: remember the animus against the Catholics was pretty high in America.
[4:18:55] Speaker 1: America had a very heavy anti Catholic bias in the South.
[4:18:58] Speaker 1: Even I hate to utter the words on TikTok, but
[4:19:01] Speaker 1: the KKK part of their If you look at like
[4:19:04] Speaker 1: there are seven tenants. One of those tenants is fuck
[4:19:08] Speaker 1: the Catholics.
[4:19:10] Speaker 2: That's crazy.
[4:19:11] Speaker 1: They hated them, right, So getting rid of the supposed
[4:19:15] Speaker 1: Catholic books of the Bible, they're like, yeah, let's get
[4:19:17] Speaker 1: rid of those things. We don't want those. But you
[4:19:20] Speaker 1: can read in chapter one and two of Maccabee's how
[4:19:23] Speaker 1: it plays out exactly like what Daniel's describing, because it
[4:19:26] Speaker 1: was written roughly in the same time period, pretty much
[4:19:29] Speaker 1: about the same events. Right, says her sanctuary became desolate
[4:19:35] Speaker 1: like a desert, and her feasts were turned into mourning,
[4:19:38] Speaker 1: her Sabbaths turned into a reproach, and he just goes
[4:19:42] Speaker 1: on endlessly. He plundered the city and burned it with
[4:19:45] Speaker 1: fire and tore down its houses and its surrounding walls.
[4:19:49] Speaker 1: Like the destruction of Jerusalem as it's described in Daniel nine,
[4:19:54] Speaker 1: happened in Maccabee's.
[4:19:57] Speaker 6: How Do You Deal with Like?
[4:19:59] Speaker 2: Because clearly like you know you have a strong atheism,
[4:20:02] Speaker 2: But how do you deal with like the I don't
[4:20:06] Speaker 2: know because I just in my experience whenever I read
[4:20:09] Speaker 2: this stuff, like I always see like cross like a
[4:20:14] Speaker 2: cross reference is so hard. But I don't know, maybe
[4:20:17] Speaker 2: I'm reading it wrong.
[4:20:18] Speaker 1: Whods because like if you look, let me ask you
[4:20:21] Speaker 1: a question, ban Okay, when you started reading the Bible,
[4:20:24] Speaker 1: did you start with the Old Testament or the New Testament.
[4:20:26] Speaker 2: I started with the Old Testament.
[4:20:28] Speaker 1: And how much of it did you read before you
[4:20:30] Speaker 1: read the New Testament?
[4:20:32] Speaker 12: Uh?
[4:20:32] Speaker 2: Well, I was reading up to like Exodus.
[4:20:35] Speaker 1: That's how it got exactly. But you've read most of
[4:20:38] Speaker 1: the New Testament, right No, I read like probably like
[4:20:42] Speaker 1: half of it. Okay. Well the reason why like when
[4:20:45] Speaker 1: you when you start with the New Testament, it's easy
[4:20:49] Speaker 1: to read the New Testament in the Old Testament if
[4:20:51] Speaker 1: you don't have a firm footing on the Old Testament.
[4:20:53] Speaker 1: Right now, I was a Christian like you for twenty years,
[4:20:56] Speaker 1: and I, first of all, I love reading the Bible.
[4:20:58] Speaker 1: I was the type of Christian that was like I
[4:21:00] Speaker 1: went to bed with the Bible on my pillow and
[4:21:02] Speaker 1: I read it every night. Now, for me, when I
[4:21:05] Speaker 1: went to Bible College and seminary. I decided to study
[4:21:07] Speaker 1: the Old Testament, first of all, because no one was
[4:21:09] Speaker 1: doing it, and second of all, there's so much material
[4:21:12] Speaker 1: there to work with, and I'm like, I really wanted
[4:21:14] Speaker 1: to work with this material. And I knew quite a
[4:21:16] Speaker 1: bit of it because I went to Catholic school growing
[4:21:18] Speaker 1: up and we actually got to read from the Old Testament.
[4:21:20] Speaker 1: So I'm like, I really want to get into this material.
[4:21:22] Speaker 1: The New Testament's not big. You can get through the
[4:21:24] Speaker 1: New Testament really easy, Like I want to know this
[4:21:26] Speaker 1: this other stuff. Plus I also wanted to know how
[4:21:29] Speaker 1: true everything was. Like I was never closed minded to
[4:21:32] Speaker 1: whether or not my religion could be true or not.
[4:21:34] Speaker 1: So I was like, if the Old Testament's not true,
[4:21:36] Speaker 1: well shit, NEI there's New Testament right. So what I
[4:21:39] Speaker 1: discovered though through through Bible College and seminary of studying
[4:21:42] Speaker 1: the Old Testament was a couple of things. One, the
[4:21:45] Speaker 1: theology was drastically different. The God of the Old Testament
[4:21:48] Speaker 1: didn't say the things that the New Testament said it said.
[4:21:51] Speaker 2: The other, what about what about an exodus where you
[4:21:54] Speaker 2: have things like that are really peaceful, like you do
[4:21:57] Speaker 2: have things that are like, you know, you can argue
[4:21:59] Speaker 2: it's like, oh, okay, this is like maybe some like manivolence,
[4:22:01] Speaker 2: you know, but then you have parts that are like
[4:22:02] Speaker 2: really really peaceful.
[4:22:04] Speaker 1: Well, I'm not degrading the character of the God. I'm
[4:22:07] Speaker 1: just saying that the content of the Old Testament is
[4:22:11] Speaker 1: in contradiction with what we find in the New Testament.
[4:22:15] Speaker 1: And that was a problem for me. But I think
[4:22:17] Speaker 1: the thing that was most problematic for me was like,
[4:22:21] Speaker 1: if you just read the prophetic books, it's it's quite
[4:22:23] Speaker 1: clear that most of the prophecies fail, and especially the
[4:22:27] Speaker 1: ones about Jesus they fail. Like even the ones that
[4:22:30] Speaker 1: are what we would call messianic prophecies, Jesus doesn't do.
[4:22:35] Speaker 1: If you look at what Matthew and John declared Jesus
[4:22:38] Speaker 1: fulfilled in terms of prophecies, most of them aren't prophecies.
[4:22:41] Speaker 1: And when they do quote prophecies, Jesus didn't do it.
[4:22:45] Speaker 1: Like Micah five two being born in Bethlehem, Well, it
[4:22:48] Speaker 1: says he's going to be a ruler in Israel. He
[4:22:50] Speaker 1: didn't rulein Israel. Zacharian nine nine says that he's going
[4:22:54] Speaker 1: to defeat all the.
[4:22:56] Speaker 2: Differently too, though, because like Israel just refers to like
[4:22:59] Speaker 2: the people, you know, like a god or whatever.
[4:23:02] Speaker 1: No, but says he's going to rule in Israel, like
[4:23:05] Speaker 1: in the Land of Israel, right, And the reality is
[4:23:08] Speaker 1: the Messiah of people. We like, it's just the people.
[4:23:12] Speaker 1: But the point of Micah five two is that there's
[4:23:14] Speaker 1: going to be a king, and that's why he says
[4:23:16] Speaker 1: he's going to come from the lineage of David.
[4:23:19] Speaker 4: Right.
[4:23:20] Speaker 1: So if Jesus first of all wasn't a king, that's
[4:23:23] Speaker 1: a huge problem. He was never a king in Israel.
[4:23:26] Speaker 2: But he's not a king in Israel like like, you know,
[4:23:29] Speaker 2: because it's still like I mean, I don't like to
[4:23:31] Speaker 2: use the word metaphor, but it's like it's like a
[4:23:33] Speaker 2: you know, it's like he's not a king in the
[4:23:35] Speaker 2: sense that he's.
[4:23:36] Speaker 1: Like a.
[4:23:39] Speaker 2: Rich guy, but it's like he's still a king in
[4:23:42] Speaker 2: the sense that like, oh, he's like he's doing these
[4:23:45] Speaker 2: things that are like telling people how.
[4:23:46] Speaker 1: To how to do stuff or whatever. I don't know.
[4:23:48] Speaker 1: But what you're essentially trying to do is equivocate on
[4:23:52] Speaker 1: what makes a king a king, and a king is
[4:23:55] Speaker 1: someone who rules over a group of people in a
[4:23:57] Speaker 1: specific location. That's why it says, yeah, but I mean
[4:24:00] Speaker 1: he's telling him no what to do, and he's not
[4:24:03] Speaker 1: a priest like under clergy. Uh right, But by your definition,
[4:24:09] Speaker 1: like everybody's a king. The priests are king, the scribes
[4:24:12] Speaker 1: are kings, the lawyers are kings. Like a king is
[4:24:16] Speaker 1: someone who comes and rules over a specific people group,
[4:24:19] Speaker 1: says he is to rule in Israel. And remember this
[4:24:23] Speaker 1: prophecy is quoted in the New Testament as pointing out,
[4:24:27] Speaker 1: where's the new king that's going to displace Herod? Herod
[4:24:31] Speaker 1: is afraid that his kingship is going to be ended
[4:24:34] Speaker 1: because of this prophecy. This prophecy clearly is talking about
[4:24:38] Speaker 1: a physical king over a physical people group, which is
[4:24:42] Speaker 1: which is another problem because it doesn't say that this
[4:24:45] Speaker 1: king is going to be God. It says he will
[4:24:48] Speaker 1: stand and feed his flock in the strength of the Lord,
[4:24:50] Speaker 1: in the majesty of the name of the Lord his God,
[4:24:54] Speaker 1: meaning this person, this king has a God. It is
[4:24:57] Speaker 1: not God.
[4:25:02] Speaker 2: No, But like, okay, well, how about in Isaiah, what
[4:25:05] Speaker 2: about you?
[4:25:06] Speaker 1: I'm sure I'm very famid with Isaiah.
[4:25:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, how about like how do you how do you
[4:25:12] Speaker 2: deal with like Isaiah nine or seven?
[4:25:14] Speaker 1: Oh, Isaiah seven and nine are easy like Isaiah seven
[4:25:17] Speaker 1: is about a king named a Has who's at war
[4:25:20] Speaker 1: with his brothers in the north. The Israelites in the
[4:25:23] Speaker 1: north are rebelling against him. They made an alliance with
[4:25:25] Speaker 1: the Aramians. They went down and tried to attack King
[4:25:28] Speaker 1: a Has in Judah. They failed, but a Has is
[4:25:31] Speaker 1: really shook up, and he's like, shoot, what are we
[4:25:34] Speaker 1: going to do? God sends Isaiah the prophet to him
[4:25:36] Speaker 1: and says, hey, don't worry, I got it. I need
[4:25:39] Speaker 1: you to have faith. So the end of the first
[4:25:41] Speaker 1: prophecy says, if you do not stand firm and faith,
[4:25:43] Speaker 1: you shall not stand at all. The second prophecy is similar.
[4:25:47] Speaker 1: It says again the Lord spoke to a Has, saying,
[4:25:49] Speaker 1: ask a sign of the Lord, ry God, that it
[4:25:51] Speaker 1: be as deep as Shoal or as high as heaven.
[4:25:53] Speaker 1: But a Has said, I will not ask, and I
[4:25:55] Speaker 1: will not put the lords to the test. Then Isaiah's wait,
[4:25:58] Speaker 1: hold on what verses are you? Oh? I'm in ten
[4:26:00] Speaker 1: right now, Isaiah sevent ten? No? Oh, I was in nine. Sorry, Sorry,
[4:26:06] Speaker 1: I should have said that. It's my bad. Can continue? Yeah,
[4:26:11] Speaker 1: it says again the Lord spoke to a haas saying,
[4:26:14] Speaker 1: ask a sign of the Lord, ry God, and let
[4:26:16] Speaker 1: it be as deep as Shiel or as high as heaven.
[4:26:18] Speaker 1: But a has said, I will not ask, and I
[4:26:20] Speaker 1: will not put the Lord to the test. Then Isaiah said,
[4:26:22] Speaker 1: here then, a house of David. Is it too little
[4:26:24] Speaker 1: for you to weary mortals that you weary my God?
[4:26:27] Speaker 1: Also therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look,
[4:26:31] Speaker 1: the young woman is with child and shall bear a son,
[4:26:35] Speaker 1: and shall name him Emmanuel. He shall eat kurds and honey.
[4:26:38] Speaker 1: By the time he knows how to refuse the evil
[4:26:40] Speaker 1: and choose the good. Four before the child knows how
[4:26:44] Speaker 1: to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land
[4:26:46] Speaker 1: before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted.
[4:26:49] Speaker 1: So the prophecy is pretty simple. It's a prophecy to
[4:26:52] Speaker 1: the king, and he says, there's a woman who's already pregnant.
[4:26:55] Speaker 1: She's about to give birth before that child is old
[4:26:58] Speaker 1: enough to know right from wrong. The two kings that
[4:27:01] Speaker 1: are giving you trouble, they're going to get wiped out.
[4:27:03] Speaker 1: Their land's going to be made desolate. That's what the
[4:27:05] Speaker 1: prophecy is about. And it happens if you just read
[4:27:08] Speaker 1: chapter eight. The prophecy seemingly comes true in eight. Right,
[4:27:18] Speaker 1: and as the prophecy is coming true, as the king
[4:27:20] Speaker 1: of Assyria is swooping down and making mincemeat of the
[4:27:26] Speaker 1: northerners and of the Arabians, Isaiah himself shouts out in
[4:27:31] Speaker 1: verse eight the end of it, Oh Emmanuel, take notice,
[4:27:35] Speaker 1: you peoples, and be dismayed. Listen, all you far off countries.
[4:27:39] Speaker 1: Gird yourselves and be dismayed. Take counsel together, but it
[4:27:42] Speaker 1: shall be brought to not speak a word, and it
[4:27:44] Speaker 1: will not stand. Four. God is with us. The name
[4:27:49] Speaker 1: of the Child is not a prophecy about the child.
[4:27:53] Speaker 1: The name of the Child is to tell the Israelites
[4:27:58] Speaker 1: that God is with them during this war. That's why.
[4:28:02] Speaker 1: As as the prophecy is coming true and the Assyrians
[4:28:07] Speaker 1: are dealing with the enemies of AHAs the prophet himself
[4:28:10] Speaker 1: says twice, are right, a Manuel. God's got our back,
[4:28:15] Speaker 1: a Manuel. There's nothing about a Messiah here. How How
[4:28:27] Speaker 1: about nine? Yeah, Isaiah nine is even easier. Actually, so
[4:28:30] Speaker 1: Isaiah nine is an enthronement prophecy for King Hezekiah. So
[4:28:36] Speaker 1: it starts out with a vision which certainly has nothing
[4:28:40] Speaker 1: to do with Jesus' time period. It's about the Assyrians,
[4:28:43] Speaker 1: the invasion by the Assyrians. Says, there will be no
[4:28:46] Speaker 1: gloom for those who were in anguish the former time.
[4:28:48] Speaker 1: He brought into contempt the land of Zebulin and the
[4:28:51] Speaker 1: land of Naptali. That's because the Assyrians, which we read
[4:28:55] Speaker 1: in the prior chapter, the Assyrians invaded through these lands.
[4:28:59] Speaker 1: The Assyrians came from the northeast when they did their
[4:29:01] Speaker 1: invasion through the land of Zebulun. In afterly right says,
[4:29:04] Speaker 1: but in the latter time he will make glorious the
[4:29:06] Speaker 1: way of the sea and the land beyond the Jordan
[4:29:09] Speaker 1: galilee of the nation. So he's saying, listen, I brought
[4:29:12] Speaker 1: these Syrians. I had to fuck you all up. It's okay,
[4:29:16] Speaker 1: We're gonna fix it, right. Why why is that the case?
[4:29:18] Speaker 1: How do we know?
[4:29:20] Speaker 12: Right?
[4:29:20] Speaker 1: Well, we know because verse six a child has been
[4:29:26] Speaker 1: born for us, a son given to us. This is
[4:29:28] Speaker 1: past tense. This is not even part of the prophecy.
[4:29:32] Speaker 1: This is this is the reason for the prophecy.
[4:29:35] Speaker 2: Or I wouldn't like now, I'm kind of nervous to
[4:29:38] Speaker 2: like be so hyper specific on like the way it's written,
[4:29:42] Speaker 2: so like you can't use like in my opinion, this
[4:29:45] Speaker 2: is like don't you can't use like something like Oh,
[4:29:47] Speaker 2: it's like the way it's rain is like in the
[4:29:50] Speaker 2: future or past tense, because like prophecies and like different
[4:29:54] Speaker 2: translations don't write the same like you can read it differently.
[4:29:58] Speaker 1: Well, I don't know of a single prophecy see in
[4:30:00] Speaker 1: the Bible that's not in the future tens. Why would
[4:30:03] Speaker 1: I think that this part of the prophecy is like
[4:30:06] Speaker 1: they're writing as if something already happened. But would I
[4:30:09] Speaker 1: think that? What do you mean? Why would I think
[4:30:12] Speaker 1: that about verse six and seven?
[4:30:17] Speaker 2: You what are you saying? What are you reference?
[4:30:19] Speaker 1: Well, I'm ready verse six and it doesn't say anything
[4:30:21] Speaker 1: about the future just yet. It says a child has
[4:30:24] Speaker 1: been born for us, a son that's given.
[4:30:26] Speaker 2: It's not like that because I use n I you
[4:30:28] Speaker 2: just because it's like standards. So like whenever I try
[4:30:30] Speaker 2: to do debates, I just like take that.
[4:30:32] Speaker 1: I well, you shouldn't because both of the words in
[4:30:35] Speaker 1: this sentence are in the past tense in Hebrew. When
[4:30:38] Speaker 1: it says a child has been born for us, that's
[4:30:41] Speaker 1: a ouhlaud in the Hebrew, that's in the past tense,
[4:30:45] Speaker 1: it's still like.
[4:30:46] Speaker 2: That's the same thing as like, you can still have
[4:30:48] Speaker 2: writing that's written in like from the perspective of somebody
[4:30:52] Speaker 2: viewing it in the past tense, and it's still be
[4:30:55] Speaker 2: in the future.
[4:30:56] Speaker 1: You need some sort of plot device to make that happen.
[4:30:59] Speaker 1: You need it to tell you. You needed to tell
[4:31:02] Speaker 1: you that this is what somebody in the future is
[4:31:05] Speaker 1: going to say. You don't just automatically insert that because
[4:31:08] Speaker 1: you want it to be a prophecy. This is so
[4:31:11] Speaker 1: I'm reading this, and I'm saying these words mean what
[4:31:14] Speaker 1: they mean. You're saying, no, they don't their predictions for
[4:31:18] Speaker 1: the future. I disagree. I see nothing in this that
[4:31:20] Speaker 1: would lead me to believe that this is a prediction
[4:31:22] Speaker 1: for the distant future. This is a reason why the
[4:31:27] Speaker 1: former things he just said are going to be true.
[4:31:30] Speaker 2: Because inn IV it's not written as in has been
[4:31:34] Speaker 2: born ILV.
[4:31:35] Speaker 1: Because the NIV is superimposing New Testament theology on top
[4:31:39] Speaker 1: of the Hebrew text. The NIV is not a truthful translation.
[4:31:43] Speaker 1: I wouldn't use it. I'd use the King James for
[4:31:45] Speaker 1: the NIV.
[4:31:49] Speaker 2: And this is why I wanted to learn Hebrew, just
[4:31:53] Speaker 2: to have this argument.
[4:31:56] Speaker 1: So so being that's a good sentiment. I don't know
[4:31:59] Speaker 1: how old you are, you know, And unfortunately I've got
[4:32:02] Speaker 1: to do some things before end this live stream, so
[4:32:04] Speaker 1: I can't continue this conversation. But I was once, I
[4:32:08] Speaker 1: would say, very close to where you are. I was
[4:32:10] Speaker 1: a young person. I was a believer. I went to
[4:32:13] Speaker 1: Catholic school. I loved reading the Bible. I came to
[4:32:16] Speaker 1: a conclusion by about age seventeen that if I ever
[4:32:20] Speaker 1: want to really know what's in this book, I have
[4:32:23] Speaker 1: to learn the original languages. I refuse to depend on
[4:32:26] Speaker 1: other people's translations because I discovered early on that the
[4:32:31] Speaker 1: translations don't always agree. And I discovered early on that
[4:32:35] Speaker 1: sometimes they don't agree because the translator has a bias,
[4:32:39] Speaker 1: and that's really unfortunate. In fact, I had some missionary
[4:32:41] Speaker 1: friends at the time that I brought this up to,
[4:32:44] Speaker 1: and I asked them, how do you go about finding
[4:32:47] Speaker 1: the right translation because some of them are clearly just biased,
[4:32:51] Speaker 1: and some of them like, did God give us a
[4:32:53] Speaker 1: perfect translation? You know, I don't know, And they were like, no,
[4:32:57] Speaker 1: well he already went to seminary and he said, no,
[4:32:59] Speaker 1: God not give us a perfect translation. I said, well,
[4:33:02] Speaker 1: what do you use during your missionary work. He says,
[4:33:04] Speaker 1: I literally draw pictures. Have these people can't even read?
[4:33:06] Speaker 1: I draw pictures. He said, that's all you need to
[4:33:09] Speaker 1: communicate the Gospel is pictures. And I said that's great.
[4:33:12] Speaker 1: But if you want to teach the Bible to people
[4:33:14] Speaker 1: who can read, you got to learn the original language.
[4:33:17] Speaker 1: And they're like, yeah, he got to do that. So
[4:33:19] Speaker 1: I went to school. I learned the original language as
[4:33:21] Speaker 1: I studied the book. And it turns out that a
[4:33:24] Speaker 1: lot of the so called Christian translations of the Hebrew
[4:33:27] Speaker 1: Bible aren't good. They're not good translations. Or what they'll
[4:33:30] Speaker 1: do is they'll say, I don't like what this says
[4:33:33] Speaker 1: in Hebrew. I'm going to superimpose the Greek on top
[4:33:36] Speaker 1: of the Hebrew and just assume that the Greek text
[4:33:39] Speaker 1: got it right and the original Hebrew text got it wrong.
[4:33:43] Speaker 1: And I don't believe that's a fair way of dealing
[4:33:45] Speaker 1: with the text.
[4:33:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't take your same consensus. It's like,
[4:33:51] Speaker 2: you have to you have to read the text in
[4:33:54] Speaker 2: the language.
[4:33:55] Speaker 1: And now you're here sitting in a live stream and
[4:33:58] Speaker 1: I'm telling you what's in the Hebrew text. But to you,
[4:34:02] Speaker 1: I'm nobody. Why the fuck do you care what I think? Right,
[4:34:05] Speaker 1: I'm nobody. I get that, I get that. To you,
[4:34:07] Speaker 1: I'm nobody. That's why it's important to do your due diligence.
[4:34:12] Speaker 1: You can learn these languages, you don't even you don't
[4:34:14] Speaker 1: even have to make it your major in school. There
[4:34:16] Speaker 1: there are people teaching these languages offline that you can
[4:34:19] Speaker 1: take like a summer course. Doctor Josh Bowen does it,
[4:34:23] Speaker 1: doctor Kip Davis does it. Like, you can learn these
[4:34:25] Speaker 1: languages without making it your whole college career. But if
[4:34:29] Speaker 1: you're really serious about the Bible being I'm not trying
[4:34:31] Speaker 1: to convince you to be an atheist, but if you're
[4:34:33] Speaker 1: really serious about studying the Bible, man, you got to
[4:34:36] Speaker 1: read those original languages because the translations aren't truthful. Yeah,
[4:34:45] Speaker 1: you know. That's the thing.
[4:34:46] Speaker 2: Is like I think the biggest like I was saying,
[4:34:48] Speaker 2: is like the biggest thing that pushed my theism was
[4:34:51] Speaker 2: like when I read atheist an agnostic or like just
[4:34:55] Speaker 2: like even it could be spiritual, but like non just
[4:34:58] Speaker 2: not theistic philosophies, Like I felt like there was so
[4:35:03] Speaker 2: many premises that would just it would be like, Okay,
[4:35:07] Speaker 2: there's clearly something else here that's not metaphysics, Like there's
[4:35:11] Speaker 2: there's more than just philosophy.
[4:35:14] Speaker 1: Okay, so we don't we don't have time to get
[4:35:16] Speaker 1: into that. But listen, Bean, I know we started this
[4:35:20] Speaker 1: conversation by getting a little hot on each other, but
[4:35:22] Speaker 1: you're actually really nice to talk to. I would love
[4:35:25] Speaker 1: for you to come back. I'll be live again this weekend.
[4:35:28] Speaker 1: I'll be live next week too. Come back. I'd love
[4:35:31] Speaker 1: to cover some of the metaphysical claims that you have
[4:35:35] Speaker 1: that lead you to still believe because I've heard most
[4:35:39] Speaker 1: of these arguments before, and I think we can navigate
[4:35:43] Speaker 1: quite a few of these arguments and make make some ground.
[4:35:47] Speaker 1: I'm done some good, buddy. Yeah.
[4:35:50] Speaker 2: My sleep schedules like really bad though, So if I
[4:35:53] Speaker 2: don't attend, it's because I'm probably like, haven't woken up yet.
[4:35:57] Speaker 1: I know worries. Don't worry. Sleeping is hard to get
[4:35:59] Speaker 1: I get it. But thanks for stopping by. Okay, Oh gee, cheers, Bud.
[4:36:07] Speaker 1: It's going to w for Bean, though. You know, you
[4:36:10] Speaker 1: know all these all these debates. When you first get
[4:36:13] Speaker 1: into the debate, it's easy to get worked up because
[4:36:16] Speaker 1: people are challenging review points. But I think the temperature
[4:36:21] Speaker 1: cooled during the debate and we were able to make
[4:36:24] Speaker 1: up some ground, which was really nice. So let's get
[4:36:27] Speaker 1: some ws for being in the conversation now, guys, I'm
[4:36:29] Speaker 1: going to read some super chats, and I apologize if
[4:36:32] Speaker 1: I got to end at five. I didn't mean that
[4:36:34] Speaker 1: conversation to go over, but listen, Bean was being a
[4:36:36] Speaker 1: really good guest. I apologize. I think he was being
[4:36:41] Speaker 1: really good guests. So I'm going to read as many
[4:36:42] Speaker 1: as I can. Leo says, Jay Smith and Brigham taught
[4:36:46] Speaker 1: a literal flood, only Noah and family survived. That's what
[4:36:49] Speaker 1: I thought. I haven't read the extra biblical texts or
[4:36:53] Speaker 1: the extra scriptoral texts of the Book of Mormon, but
[4:36:56] Speaker 1: that was my understanding. Mindful says one time I was
[4:36:59] Speaker 1: doing some Kundalini and a crazy Mormon pullsh bullshit appened.
[4:37:05] Speaker 1: My people parts haven't been the same since. I love that.
[4:37:10] Speaker 1: That was good. I do love getting some Mormons in
[4:37:13] Speaker 1: the stream. Carl says, guests was talking about the Bimini Road,
[4:37:17] Speaker 1: a natural formation that thanks to the History Channel, people
[4:37:20] Speaker 1: believe is remnants of a city. Shit. I didn't know
[4:37:23] Speaker 1: about that. I didn't even catch that part. Thanks for
[4:37:26] Speaker 1: keeping me aware of that data, says Justin. In order
[4:37:30] Speaker 1: to force callers to answer yes or no, you need
[4:37:32] Speaker 1: to come up with a stream app that pops up
[4:37:35] Speaker 1: and unmutes them only when they click yes or no. Oh,
[4:37:39] Speaker 1: this is such a good idea. I could write the
[4:37:41] Speaker 1: app too. I've got programming skill. I would love to
[4:37:45] Speaker 1: write an app that I can integrate with it where
[4:37:48] Speaker 1: it just mutes like I can do a hot key.
[4:37:51] Speaker 1: It'd be super easy, where if I ask a question
[4:37:53] Speaker 1: and they don't say yes or no, it'll detect yes
[4:37:56] Speaker 1: or no and just hot key the mute button dope idea.
[4:38:01] Speaker 1: Illy says, it's crazy the Italian stole native Palestinian's religious
[4:38:04] Speaker 1: culture and turned their myth into a warrior white man
[4:38:08] Speaker 1: and killed millions over it and forced it on everyone else. Actually,
[4:38:12] Speaker 1: I can't agree with you more. It's wild that a
[4:38:15] Speaker 1: bunch of Italians co opted this ancient Near Eastern religion
[4:38:22] Speaker 1: and literally murdered people over it. It's crazy to think about.
[4:38:26] Speaker 1: Jen extreme great to see you said there are ten
[4:38:29] Speaker 1: types of people who understand binary and those who don't.
[4:38:33] Speaker 1: Classic to us computers. I really appreciate that. Oh, I
[4:38:40] Speaker 1: love some good jokes. I have some good jokes here today, Adrian,
[4:38:42] Speaker 1: thank you for the twenty hour super chat friend. I
[4:38:44] Speaker 1: appreciate that says you are justin You are awesome and
[4:38:47] Speaker 1: I love your work. I am seeing you in my
[4:38:49] Speaker 1: own arguments, trying to find my own style of cooking.
[4:38:52] Speaker 1: If you will, learning tons light bulb. Want to take
[4:38:57] Speaker 1: this seriously and study New Oxford Annotated Bible suffice and
[4:39:02] Speaker 1: watching resources suffice. Are you asking does the New Oxford
[4:39:09] Speaker 1: Annotated Bible suffice? It will get you where you're going.
[4:39:12] Speaker 1: There's a lot in there. I would also add in
[4:39:17] Speaker 1: like a one volume commentary. Now, I've spent thousands and
[4:39:24] Speaker 1: thousands of dollars on large commentary sets, but a good
[4:39:28] Speaker 1: starting point for study is just a good single volume
[4:39:31] Speaker 1: commentary like the Oxford Bible Commentary. It's very concise and
[4:39:36] Speaker 1: you'll know what scholars say about the Bible. And the
[4:39:39] Speaker 1: other one is the Jerome Bible Commentary. I like the
[4:39:43] Speaker 1: second edition only because the pages are thick and you
[4:39:47] Speaker 1: can actually highlight them, and they don't bleed through. The
[4:39:49] Speaker 1: third edition the pages are super super thin and they
[4:39:54] Speaker 1: ink bleeds through. I still love the third editions a
[4:39:57] Speaker 1: lot of great information. The Jerome Bible Commentary is the
[4:40:00] Speaker 1: Catholic version of the Oxford Bible Commentary, So that's the difference.
[4:40:12] Speaker 1: So that's where I would start if I was seriously
[4:40:15] Speaker 1: studying the Bible academically, and Martin asks all this quantum
[4:40:20] Speaker 1: woo woo, I'll never trust in quarks. Apparently them make
[4:40:23] Speaker 1: up everything regards from you. Kay, well, thank you so much. Listen,
[4:40:27] Speaker 1: I believe in quarks. I do. I believe in fundamental particles.
[4:40:32] Speaker 1: I believe in quantum. I do not believe in quantum Wu.
[4:40:36] Speaker 1: I am not a believer in quantum Wu. Mark that
[4:40:40] Speaker 1: down as a hefty no. It's no for me, dog,
[4:40:44] Speaker 1: no quantum wo. Marcus says, as much as I respect
[4:40:48] Speaker 1: a Christian who admits they didn't read the Bible, it's
[4:40:50] Speaker 1: baffling that he chose to call in and debate it.
[4:40:52] Speaker 1: Confidence is key, I guess I would say.
[4:40:55] Speaker 2: So.
[4:40:55] Speaker 1: You know, I had a brother once told me a
[4:40:59] Speaker 1: long time ago, if you say anything confidently and you
[4:41:02] Speaker 1: know at least a little bit more than your audience,
[4:41:05] Speaker 1: they'll they'll believe you. They'll they'll they'll follow you. It's true, Penelope,
[4:41:10] Speaker 1: thank you for the dinner. I was superests I'm working
[4:41:12] Speaker 1: in late to the party. For a good laugh, check
[4:41:16] Speaker 1: out the Satanic Grato protest in Topeka and the nitwit
[4:41:20] Speaker 1: who dived in and ate a stomped on Magic host
[4:41:24] Speaker 1: to say, Baby Jesus. Some unbelievers, Oh, somebody defiled a Eucharist,
[4:41:31] Speaker 1: and a firm believer was like, nope, I gotta I
[4:41:35] Speaker 1: gotta dive in and eat that thing. Yeah, I believe that.
[4:41:40] Speaker 1: I visited an Orthodox church once and they were really
[4:41:43] Speaker 1: serious about the Eucharist. I said, what happens if somebody
[4:41:47] Speaker 1: eats the Eucharist? I still I was always asking the
[4:41:49] Speaker 1: hard hitting questions, even as a teenager. I asked the priest,
[4:41:53] Speaker 1: if somebody eats the Eucharist and throws up, what do
[4:41:56] Speaker 1: you do about it? And the priest sheepishly was like, well,
[4:42:00] Speaker 1: somebody's got a consume it. It'll be a priest. Priests
[4:42:03] Speaker 1: will have to take it up and consume it. I said,
[4:42:05] Speaker 1: you guys, kids are insane. That's insane. Retired bomb Tech
[4:42:10] Speaker 1: thank you for the twenty dollars super chat. That's very generous,
[4:42:14] Speaker 1: he says, what's your response when someone says your morals
[4:42:17] Speaker 1: come from what you grew up with being a Christian.
[4:42:20] Speaker 1: I've heard this argument on different podcasts that says atheists
[4:42:24] Speaker 1: get are ours based off some of the Bible, despite
[4:42:27] Speaker 1: our say, well, that certainly wouldn't be true. Most of
[4:42:29] Speaker 1: the morals that we would perceive as being good they
[4:42:33] Speaker 1: exist in non Christian countries. Shit, you get them in Japan,
[4:42:38] Speaker 1: you'll get them in all sorts of locations that aren't
[4:42:41] Speaker 1: predominantly Christian. Now, it is true that if you grow
[4:42:44] Speaker 1: up in a Christian country, you do show up with
[4:42:46] Speaker 1: lots of morals that cross over with Christianity. But the morals,
[4:42:50] Speaker 1: the supposed Christian morals that they're referring to, aren't unique
[4:42:54] Speaker 1: to the Bible. They show up in all sorts of
[4:42:56] Speaker 1: cultures outside of the Bible, with or without it. A
[4:42:59] Speaker 1: good portion. You know, the Ten Commandments show up in
[4:43:01] Speaker 1: the forty two Confessions of Mahat. If you look at
[4:43:05] Speaker 1: like the poem of the Righteous Sufferer from ancient Babylon,
[4:43:09] Speaker 1: with a lot of stuff in that, a lot of
[4:43:11] Speaker 1: morals in there that used to open the Bible as well.
[4:43:15] Speaker 1: So the Bible was robbing from other cultures. In fact,
[4:43:18] Speaker 1: a lot of the proverbs from the Bible we find
[4:43:21] Speaker 1: parallels in Egyptian proverbs. So it's just you know, they're borrowing.
[4:43:27] Speaker 1: The Bible's borrowing right. To say that we're borrowing from
[4:43:30] Speaker 1: the Bible is silly. The Bible borrowed from everyone else. Dexter,
[4:43:34] Speaker 1: thank you for the ten hour super chest, says, Celebrities
[4:43:36] Speaker 1: also do this for publicity. I agree. Christians will constantly
[4:43:41] Speaker 1: talk about you. If an upcoming artist put Satan in
[4:43:43] Speaker 1: their music video, the next day, Christians will be on
[4:43:46] Speaker 1: the news talking about it. Yeah, they will, actually dext
[4:43:48] Speaker 1: they will. That is the truth. A lot of it
[4:43:52] Speaker 1: is publicity. Bad publicity is publicity. That's all there is
[4:43:57] Speaker 1: to it. Bit Plain, says Michael. Is a metaphor. The
[4:44:00] Speaker 1: Bible mentions bowls of wrath. We know bulls exist. Actually, yeah,
[4:44:05] Speaker 1: it really is, even if you did, Even if you
[4:44:07] Speaker 1: did say, well, the angels are real, the bulls of
[4:44:10] Speaker 1: wrath are metaphor. But what the bowl of wrath does?
[4:44:14] Speaker 1: You have to admit that that part is real. It'd
[4:44:16] Speaker 1: be silly to think that, like the Euphrates river drying up,
[4:44:20] Speaker 1: that bowl of wrath is true, But then all the
[4:44:21] Speaker 1: rest of them are metaphors. That's crazy. Narcissa, thank you
[4:44:26] Speaker 1: for the fifty dollars superchat friend. That's super generous. So
[4:44:29] Speaker 1: these people who lie for their murderous call I'm cooking
[4:44:33] Speaker 1: and doing shrooms, all are invited through the fair. All
[4:44:38] Speaker 1: are invited. Though the fair isn't as scrumptious as justin,
[4:44:43] Speaker 1: so I appreciate that. Narcis, thank you for all you
[4:44:45] Speaker 1: do well. Thank you for supporting the channel. And I
[4:44:47] Speaker 1: do my best to not only cook but also educate
[4:44:51] Speaker 1: when we like Bean. We got to a point during
[4:44:54] Speaker 1: Bean's discussion where I would say, you might call cooking
[4:44:57] Speaker 1: cooking turned to educating and I love it educating and learning.
[4:45:02] Speaker 1: It doesn't always have to be cooking. Sometimes it could
[4:45:03] Speaker 1: be educating. And Narcissa again, thank you so much. As
[4:45:06] Speaker 1: I always want to know where these people work, I
[4:45:09] Speaker 1: hope it's not with children or they in charge of
[4:45:12] Speaker 1: anything critical. Yeah. Could you imagine like some of the
[4:45:16] Speaker 1: crazy people we've had on here that advocated for baby
[4:45:19] Speaker 1: paste and then turns out they work with children. That'd
[4:45:23] Speaker 1: be crazy. Tan, I thank you for gifting out five
[4:45:27] Speaker 1: DZ debate memberships. That's super generous, friend, And Nolan, thank
[4:45:31] Speaker 1: you for the ten dollars super Jest says Hey, Justin.
[4:45:33] Speaker 1: After I watched the Peanuts Halloween Special, I had a
[4:45:36] Speaker 1: revelation that Charlie Brown is a prophet of Doug. What
[4:45:39] Speaker 1: Charlie did that night was miraculous and will never be repeated.
[4:45:44] Speaker 1: I used to watch that special as a kid, and
[4:45:46] Speaker 1: I've forgotten most of it. I think it's called Charlie
[4:45:48] Speaker 1: and the Charlie and the Pumpkin Patch. Is that it?
[4:45:56] Speaker 1: I hate to say it, I forget the episode, but
[4:45:58] Speaker 1: thank you Nolan for the reminder. I'll rewatch it and
[4:46:01] Speaker 1: see if I can find the Holy Dug in there. John,
[4:46:06] Speaker 1: thinking for the super Jest, says Justin, was there a
[4:46:08] Speaker 1: certain moment when you just had it with religion? A
[4:46:10] Speaker 1: breaking point of sorts? I would say I was never
[4:46:14] Speaker 1: a fan of proper religion, like saying this is my
[4:46:18] Speaker 1: religion and I believe whatever it teaches, Like I was
[4:46:22] Speaker 1: never part of that. Like I would say I believe
[4:46:25] Speaker 1: in Christianity, but like I never felt the need to say,
[4:46:28] Speaker 1: like I have to be a Baptist, I have to
[4:46:30] Speaker 1: be a Catholic. I always rejected the idea of standardized religion.
[4:46:36] Speaker 1: But I can tell you an early moment, even when
[4:46:40] Speaker 1: I was in my late teens when saying I was
[4:46:44] Speaker 1: a Christian felt dirty to me because Christians, even during
[4:46:49] Speaker 1: the Bush era, were doing all kinds of crazy things,
[4:46:51] Speaker 1: and I'm like, ugh, I hate that I have to
[4:46:53] Speaker 1: associate with this group because they're insane. Same thing with
[4:46:57] Speaker 1: like when the scandal came out with all all the
[4:47:00] Speaker 1: Catholic priests turned out we're touching children. I was like, fuck,
[4:47:03] Speaker 1: I'm associated with these people now. That That's when I
[4:47:08] Speaker 1: learned at an early age that like, yeah, there's a
[4:47:10] Speaker 1: lot of people in these religion is doing horrible things. Zach,
[4:47:14] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the twenty dollars superjet. Zach says,
[4:47:17] Speaker 1: butthole shift not to be confused with butthole surfers as
[4:47:21] Speaker 1: a band butt. Whole shift is obviously some form of
[4:47:24] Speaker 1: the pole shift argument from apparently the more the Mormons,
[4:47:32] Speaker 1: Uh Navy Jet five fixer thank you for the superjet
[4:47:35] Speaker 1: freensis he was talking about a cataclysmic poll shift hypothesis. Uh,
[4:47:39] Speaker 1: The idea that there has been geologically rapid shifts in
[4:47:43] Speaker 1: the axis of rotation causing calamities such as bloods Okay
[4:47:47] Speaker 1: in the rotation is one thing. A poll shift like
[4:47:50] Speaker 1: a magnetic pole shift, I think would be a completely
[4:47:52] Speaker 1: different thing that being said, and listen, I'm I told
[4:47:57] Speaker 1: him five times at least, I don't care about the
[4:48:00] Speaker 1: poll shift. Whether the poll shift's true or not isn't meaningful, right,
[4:48:05] Speaker 1: That's just an explanation for how the flood happened. The
[4:48:08] Speaker 1: conversation I was trying to have is whether or not
[4:48:11] Speaker 1: the flood was global. That's what I wanted to know.
[4:48:14] Speaker 1: Was it a global flood? Meg, thank you for the
[4:48:18] Speaker 1: ten dollar superchat, says I listened to the sentencing of
[4:48:22] Speaker 1: the Mormon mom who killed their kids in the name
[4:48:24] Speaker 1: of Jesus. She quoted scripture and said prisoners are warriors
[4:48:28] Speaker 1: of God. Is preparing to fight for him in the
[4:48:31] Speaker 1: last DAYE Yeah, sounds about right.
[4:48:34] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[4:48:34] Speaker 1: When you can murder your own children and say God
[4:48:37] Speaker 1: did it and then not repent and change your ways,
[4:48:40] Speaker 1: you're dangerous, and you're partially dangerous because you're your religion.
[4:48:45] Speaker 1: That's why we do it. Beto, thank you for the
[4:48:47] Speaker 1: fifteen dollars superchat friend. That's huge. Thank you, Beto, says,
[4:48:51] Speaker 1: keep up the great work. DZ is my cathartic escape.
[4:48:54] Speaker 1: I appreciate that, Betto, and I'll do everything I can
[4:48:58] Speaker 1: to bring you the best entertainment, the best cooking, and
[4:49:01] Speaker 1: hopefully the best learning. That's the goal. That is the goal.
[4:49:05] Speaker 1: And U Nightman Cometh, thank you so much for sending
[4:49:08] Speaker 1: a twenty hour super chat. That's huge, says it boggles
[4:49:11] Speaker 1: my mind that there are people in this gullible even
[4:49:15] Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it boggles my mind that there are people
[4:49:18] Speaker 1: this gullible. Even when I was a Christian, I wasn't
[4:49:21] Speaker 1: this gullible. Lady Gaga worship Satan. No, she's being provocative
[4:49:25] Speaker 1: and it works because people like him. Yeah, that's the
[4:49:28] Speaker 1: crazy thing. They're not doing it because they believe in Satan.
[4:49:31] Speaker 1: These people don't believe in Satan. They're doing it to
[4:49:35] Speaker 1: get everyone looking at them. And says coller Bean was gross.
[4:49:41] Speaker 1: He came around listening to him. Oh well that yeah.
[4:49:44] Speaker 1: The eating. The eating was gross. Listening to him eat
[4:49:46] Speaker 1: was nasty. And I don't have missophonia. The response that's
[4:49:51] Speaker 1: old when you refer to Ezekiel made me angry laugh
[4:49:54] Speaker 1: brand new two k old Christianity. I know, I hear
[4:50:00] Speaker 1: that a lot. I'll never not find it entertaining when
[4:50:03] Speaker 1: I read like something from the Old Testament, even if
[4:50:05] Speaker 1: it's just a prophecy. Let's say that's Old Testament. Yeah,
[4:50:08] Speaker 1: I know, I know it's Old Testament. It's an Old
[4:50:11] Speaker 1: Testament prophet telling you about the future. That's why I'm
[4:50:13] Speaker 1: reading it. Minute Ben says, arrogance is asking a god
[4:50:18] Speaker 1: who wouldn't stop the Holocaust to find your car keys.
[4:50:21] Speaker 1: Ricky Gervais praised Doug and fuck the patriarchy. I agree,
[4:50:26] Speaker 1: fuck the patriarchy, and thank you for being here. And
[4:50:28] Speaker 1: I agree. Like if you think your God is real
[4:50:31] Speaker 1: because he gave you a vision once that made you
[4:50:33] Speaker 1: feel good, or he helped you get the job, or
[4:50:35] Speaker 1: find your car keys, or you know, the mechanic gave
[4:50:38] Speaker 1: you a deal on repairing your vehicle, but then he
[4:50:40] Speaker 1: allows children to die of starvation three million a year
[4:50:43] Speaker 1: and babies to be bored with bone cancer. It's in
[4:50:46] Speaker 1: your head. It ain't real, Daniel, thank you for the
[4:50:49] Speaker 1: supertest Its former Baptist minister here most of the stuff
[4:50:52] Speaker 1: I didn't learn in Bible college. Hyper FUNDI college. That
[4:50:55] Speaker 1: might be the case, but only afterwards and during and
[4:50:59] Speaker 1: after deconstruction. You can't see the fog interire out of it.
[4:51:03] Speaker 8: Daniel.
[4:51:04] Speaker 1: That's so right. Now, listen I was lucky enough. I
[4:51:06] Speaker 1: didn't go to any fundamentalist Bible collegeor seminary. They were
[4:51:09] Speaker 1: like true, like academic institutions. They weren't there to indoctrin
[4:51:13] Speaker 1: eight people. So for me, luckily, I was able to
[4:51:17] Speaker 1: learn with complete freedom. Like they weren't forcing anything down us.
[4:51:21] Speaker 1: They didn't say this is heretical, this is not heretical.
[4:51:25] Speaker 1: They just said here's all the stuff. Learn it, get
[4:51:28] Speaker 1: familiar with it. Right. They weren't teaching anything specific, so
[4:51:31] Speaker 1: it makes the job a little bit easier. But if
[4:51:33] Speaker 1: you grew up fundy, yeah, sometimes you got to escape
[4:51:36] Speaker 1: the cult, right, You got to escape the cult in
[4:51:39] Speaker 1: order to deconstruct properly. It's just one of those situations.
[4:51:45] Speaker 1: All right, let me grab another super chat. We got
[4:51:47] Speaker 1: another super chat in here from Nolan. Nolan, thank you
[4:51:52] Speaker 1: very much, Nolan says, justin when Charlie went trick or treating,
[4:51:56] Speaker 1: every household put a rock in his bag, all the
[4:51:58] Speaker 1: other kids got candy. Oh I remember that now. Thank you,
[4:52:03] Speaker 1: Thank you for the reminder. Thank you for the reminder.
[4:52:05] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. I do love the Charlie Brown cartoons.
[4:52:10] Speaker 1: I think there I watched them as a kid growing up.
[4:52:12] Speaker 1: I think they're great cartoons. But yeah, w Charlie Brown,
[4:52:17] Speaker 1: Charlie Brown, you're not a blockhead. And fuck Lucy. It
[4:52:21] Speaker 1: looks like my TikTok stream has been laggy the whole
[4:52:24] Speaker 1: time I've been live. I've got it live on my
[4:52:26] Speaker 1: phone right now. It's kind of laggy. TikTok Studio, I
[4:52:28] Speaker 1: think is just trash is what I think we'll see.
[4:52:32] Speaker 1: Chrispy Haretic, thank you so much for the ten hour
[4:52:34] Speaker 1: super chat, says, I remember the self proclaimed prophet woman
[4:52:37] Speaker 1: that claimed you could you would lose subscribers. You were
[4:52:41] Speaker 1: at around nine hundred watching live, then been over a
[4:52:44] Speaker 1: thousand every episode since. Another field prophecy. Yeah, she is
[4:52:49] Speaker 1: on my main channel. You can watch her profit watch
[4:52:52] Speaker 1: her prophecy. It was Prophet Bell or pastor Bell I forget.
[4:52:55] Speaker 1: I had like eight hundred people there and she was saying,
[4:52:57] Speaker 1: you're the prophecy is gonna come true and you're numbers
[4:53:00] Speaker 1: are gonna drop. Not only did that not happen, they've
[4:53:03] Speaker 1: they've at least doubled at least doubled. Good call out,
[4:53:09] Speaker 1: Good call out, and last super Chat for our friend,
[4:53:12] Speaker 1: Xi Million says when Doug gets stimulated just right. Eg
[4:53:16] Speaker 1: struck with the rod he uh he cutm in courts.
[4:53:26] Speaker 1: Stay rock hard for Doug, so fucking rock hard. Absolutely
[4:53:29] Speaker 1: will absolutely will stay rock hard for Doug. Absolutely all right, friends,
[4:53:35] Speaker 1: thank you so so much for being here. Thank you
[4:53:37] Speaker 1: for all the mods, Thank you for everyone who liked
[4:53:39] Speaker 1: and shared the live stream. Thank you so much for
[4:53:42] Speaker 1: everyone who participated in the chat, and everyone who participated
[4:53:46] Speaker 1: via super chat, so so appreciated. I think we're all
[4:53:49] Speaker 1: here with the same goal. We're trying to rid the
[4:53:52] Speaker 1: world of this nonsense. So we'll be live again. What
[4:53:57] Speaker 1: is today today's Friday, will be live again actually tomorrow night,
[4:54:01] Speaker 1: and we'll be live again some on Sunday, and then
[4:54:04] Speaker 1: next week we'll be live again a whole bunch. So
[4:54:06] Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. Friends. Is there
[4:54:08] Speaker 1: anyone right now live that we can go raid. Someone's
[4:54:11] Speaker 1: got to be live right now that we can go raid.
[4:54:13] Speaker 1: Let me take a look to see who's on. We
[4:54:18] Speaker 1: need to do a big old raid up live, trying
[4:54:35] Speaker 1: to get someone who's live on TikTok and on YouTube
[4:54:37] Speaker 1: right now and get a double whammy. But I don't
[4:54:39] Speaker 1: see anyone live on my YouTube, So we're gonna have
[4:54:42] Speaker 1: to grab someone from the TikTok and go raid them. Oh, Christina,
[4:54:47] Speaker 1: Christina Carrol's live. Hell yeah, let me grab Christina Carrol.
[4:54:51] Speaker 1: One second there, she is, all right, this is Christina Carroll.
[4:54:57] Speaker 1: Let me put it on the screen for everyone who
[4:54:59] Speaker 1: don't know. Hopefully you will know Christina Carroll. Her tag
[4:55:03] Speaker 1: is It's underscore Christina Carroll. She's live right now. I'm
[4:55:08] Speaker 1: sure there's a couple hundred people there watching. Five hundred
[4:55:10] Speaker 1: people they're watching. Let's go Raider. Let's go give her
[4:55:13] Speaker 1: a deconstruction zone. Justin and Doug Raid has bump these
[4:55:18] Speaker 1: numbers up. I'm gonna run over there and pop in
[4:55:22] Speaker 1: the chat as well. Let's go. Let's go have some
[4:55:24] Speaker 1: fun in this discussion. Looks like she's got quite a
[4:55:26] Speaker 1: panel up right now. Thinker's up, Rhea's up, Dugald's up,
[4:55:30] Speaker 1: and they've got j Rob and Mac luster. It's gonna
[4:55:32] Speaker 1: be a good conversation. All right, friends, Let's go raid Christina.
[4:55:36] Speaker 1: I'll see you over there just a little bit. Thank
[4:55:38] Speaker 1: you so much, friends, I love and appreciate you all.

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