# 2025-03-09 LIVE DEBATE \[God is Imaginary\]

An episode of [Deconstruction Zone](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1837730286), 11 Sep 2025, 4 h 05 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/67637888/2025_03_09_live_debate_god_is_imaginary.mp3

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## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: On TikTok. I think everything's live over on the YouTube's.
[0:08] Speaker 1: Everything should be live on Facebook and Instagram should be
[0:13] Speaker 1: live now as well. Should have everything rocking and rolling.
[0:16] Speaker 1: Welcome in, guys, Good to see you, guys. Good to
[0:19] Speaker 1: have you here, and right off the rip already, Brent,
[0:23] Speaker 1: Welcome to the Crack and Crew elite. Brent, you got
[0:25] Speaker 1: access to the Deconstruction Zone cheat sheet now, and hey,
[0:31] Speaker 1: good to see you, flat M. I did add a
[0:33] Speaker 1: tab this weekend for LDS nonsense, so that should be
[0:38] Speaker 1: a lot of fun. I was working on two other
[0:41] Speaker 1: tabs and I got so deep in the LDS nonsense
[0:45] Speaker 1: that I decided to put the LDS tab up first.
[0:47] Speaker 1: But hopefully you guys will enjoy that. Good to see you.
[0:51] Speaker 1: Welcome in. Jay Cow's in the house, Sorens with us.
[0:55] Speaker 1: We've got j Steele, We've got flat M, we got
[0:59] Speaker 1: the whole crew. And Dexter, big w Dexter sending out
[1:03] Speaker 1: five Deconstruction Zone memberships right off the bat. I really
[1:07] Speaker 1: appreciate that, Dexter. Thanks for being here, friend, and thanks
[1:10] Speaker 1: for sending out the Subby's. It's not bad he.
[1:19] Speaker 2: I just wanted to us school the Old Testament do
[1:23] Speaker 2: we have any idea or any theory who would have
[1:25] Speaker 2: wrote the Old Testamate? Vote we would have vote the oldestimate, Like,
[1:31] Speaker 2: obviously it's not Moses, but or anybody like claimed to
[1:34] Speaker 2: have re did it. But how do we have so
[1:36] Speaker 2: many books they connected together over the period of like
[1:40] Speaker 2: a thousand years.
[1:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, so it depends on which section of the Old
[1:43] Speaker 1: Testament we're referring to. But typically, like Genesis all the
[1:47] Speaker 1: way through, kings are attributed to four different redactors or
[1:53] Speaker 1: four different schools of reaction. And so the theory I
[1:58] Speaker 1: hold too is similar to the documentary hypothesis. It's called
[2:02] Speaker 1: the fragmentary hypothesis. It's this general idea that the texts
[2:06] Speaker 1: were in fragments all over the place, individual texts, and
[2:10] Speaker 1: then they were collected and assembled into larger bodies of
[2:13] Speaker 1: work over time, initially by one redactor, probably called the Eloist,
[2:19] Speaker 1: just what we're calling the redactor, and another one called
[2:23] Speaker 1: the Yahwist, and then another redaction school referred to as
[2:27] Speaker 1: the priestly Redactors, and then the final one is the Deuteronomist.
[2:32] Speaker 1: And so it's generally believed that the texts they pre
[2:37] Speaker 1: existed in other forms and then they were compiled into
[2:40] Speaker 1: a work. But everything after that, like the prophetic works.
[2:44] Speaker 1: The prophetic works stand on their own. So, for example,
[2:48] Speaker 1: like the Book of Isaiah, the earliest portion of Isaiah
[2:51] Speaker 1: is typically attributed to Isaiah, but second Isaiah, chapter forty
[2:56] Speaker 1: to fifty five is not. Third Isaiah, which is chapter
[3:00] Speaker 1: six to sixty six, is not attributed to Isaiah. We
[3:02] Speaker 1: don't know who wrote those, It's just somebody probably in
[3:06] Speaker 1: Isaiah's school.
[3:08] Speaker 2: Well do we do we know why that? We have,
[3:10] Speaker 2: like so many books that found the way general idea
[3:14] Speaker 2: of like a good naway or being written by different
[3:17] Speaker 2: people across different periods of time.
[3:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, so the majority of the Hebrew Bible
[3:22] Speaker 1: was written when Judea was the primary power in the Levant.
[3:29] Speaker 1: So by the time these texts are being compiled, the
[3:34] Speaker 1: army from Assyria already came in and wiped out the
[3:37] Speaker 1: northern tribes. So northern Israel was already wiped out, which
[3:40] Speaker 1: left Judea or the tribe of Judah and Benjamin as
[3:44] Speaker 1: the lone surviving power among the people. And so it
[3:50] Speaker 1: was during that time period that they reconstructed all of
[3:54] Speaker 1: these texts in order to provide some kind of a
[3:58] Speaker 1: unified background and narrative for the people group because a
[4:02] Speaker 1: lot of the people in the north went south into
[4:05] Speaker 1: Judea to escape the invasion by the Assyrian army, and
[4:09] Speaker 1: so that of the two people groups are essentially co mingled.
[4:12] Speaker 1: And since the two people groups were so so well like,
[4:16] Speaker 1: they were already so well knit already, they kind of
[4:19] Speaker 1: concocted a shared mythology for both of the people groups
[4:23] Speaker 1: to unite them as one. So, but being that Judea
[4:28] Speaker 1: was in charge, it's obviously Yahweh became the primary deity.
[4:32] Speaker 1: Yahweh supplanted the worship of l There's a book on
[4:41] Speaker 1: this you might want to check out by Mark S.
[4:44] Speaker 3: Smith.
[4:46] Speaker 1: Let me grab the name of that book Mark Smith
[4:52] Speaker 1: has written on this one. It's on the There's two
[4:55] Speaker 1: books you might want to check out, once called The
[4:58] Speaker 1: Early History of God and the other is the Origins
[5:01] Speaker 1: of Biblical Monotheism. And you may want to check out
[5:06] Speaker 1: like something similar like Who wrote the Bible by Richard
[5:10] Speaker 1: Elliott Freeman. And I think Joel Baden has a book
[5:14] Speaker 1: on this topic now as well.
[5:16] Speaker 4: Let me see.
[5:19] Speaker 1: So Joel doctor Joel S. Baden, he's a professor at Yale.
[5:23] Speaker 1: Let me see what he called his book. Yeah, so
[5:25] Speaker 1: Joel Baden put out a book in twenty twelve called
[5:28] Speaker 1: The Composition of the Pentateuch. That's definitely worth reading as well.
[5:38] Speaker 1: I answer your question, my friend, but Nick, thank you
[5:40] Speaker 1: for the dragon head. I appreciate that. In Smoke Lahoma,
[5:43] Speaker 1: thank you for the cranes. I appreciate that.
[5:46] Speaker 5: Oh.
[5:47] Speaker 2: I was just. I was just saying that we we
[5:49] Speaker 2: think that Judy Hasm existed like Poyor to deal in
[5:55] Speaker 2: some weird or another.
[5:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, so I hold to the Midi Nite hypothesis. The
[6:00] Speaker 1: Median Nite hypothesis is that Y'ah was basically formed around
[6:06] Speaker 1: the land of Midian between the desert and the Egyptian territories,
[6:11] Speaker 1: and then it moved into the foothills of Judea.
[6:18] Speaker 2: That is all. I just. It's queasy how much this
[6:21] Speaker 2: gold has evolved from one thing to another to another.
[6:24] Speaker 4: Yes it is.
[6:27] Speaker 1: He cheers, buddy. M's a good friend of the channel. Guys,
[6:33] Speaker 1: make sure you're follow M's if you're not already. Thank
[6:35] Speaker 1: you so much for being here, guys. Jake col in
[6:37] Speaker 1: the House says, welcome in your grace. Thank you for
[6:41] Speaker 1: the bad religion. Well, thank you Jake cal for the
[6:44] Speaker 1: welcome and welcome into the live stream. And Porcelina, welcome
[6:47] Speaker 1: to the Crack and Crew Elite. You got access to
[6:49] Speaker 1: the Deconstruction Zone cheat sheet now, so uh big W
[6:54] Speaker 1: for that. And Porcelina says, I passed my CPM a
[6:57] Speaker 1: Certified Professional Medical Auditor sort of vacation exam today. Praise
[7:02] Speaker 1: be to Doug Well, congratulations on that, big W for
[7:06] Speaker 1: passing the exam. And blood Type Scarlet and Gray gifting
[7:10] Speaker 1: out five Deconstruction Zone memberships. Big W, Scarlet and Gray,
[7:15] Speaker 1: I really appreciate that. And Fenn in the house. Good
[7:17] Speaker 1: to see a Fenn. I appreciate the hat. And Ligma,
[7:21] Speaker 1: good to see him, my friend, Ligma, thank you for
[7:23] Speaker 1: the six sixty six Hale. Nero says, could you retell
[7:27] Speaker 1: your specific refutation for Daniel predicting the fall of the
[7:30] Speaker 1: Second Temple in SEVENTYCEE. I struggled with this one the
[7:33] Speaker 1: other day. Well, really, all you have to do is
[7:36] Speaker 1: just read the beginning of the chapter like a Christians
[7:38] Speaker 1: want to start in the middle of chapter nine, but
[7:41] Speaker 1: that's not actually how that works. If you read the
[7:43] Speaker 1: beginning of chapter nine, Daniel is talking about why the
[7:48] Speaker 1: seventy years as predicted by Daniel, seems to have passed,
[7:52] Speaker 1: but they haven't been restored. The people group are still
[7:55] Speaker 1: experiencing turmoil, and so he figures out by reading Leviticus
[7:59] Speaker 1: chapter twenty six, Oh, my goodness, if if we if
[8:03] Speaker 1: we don't return to the Lord when he punishes us,
[8:06] Speaker 1: then he'll multiply our punishment sevenfold. So he's like, oh,
[8:09] Speaker 1: it's going to be for four hundred and ninety years,
[8:12] Speaker 1: not for seventy years. But that's the amount of time
[8:15] Speaker 1: that they're going to be punished for, which means it
[8:17] Speaker 1: starts at the beginning of their punishment. So the four
[8:20] Speaker 1: hundred and ninety years has to start around six oh
[8:22] Speaker 1: five BCE, which is the time of their affliction, and
[8:27] Speaker 1: that ends it about one point fifteen BCE, about one
[8:31] Speaker 1: hundred and fifteen years before Jesus. The temple being destroyed
[8:34] Speaker 1: is told in First and Second Maccabees. It was desecrated
[8:38] Speaker 1: by Anti kis Epiphanes, who erected a desolating sacrilege in
[8:41] Speaker 1: the temple and then made the people offer pigs on
[8:46] Speaker 1: the altar. And all this happened for a period of
[8:50] Speaker 1: about three and a half years half a week, just
[8:52] Speaker 1: like it says in Daniel, and then they were able
[8:56] Speaker 1: to overthrow it. And for that half a week they
[8:58] Speaker 1: had a deal that they made with Jason, the High
[9:00] Speaker 1: Priest after they executed Oneias the third in order to
[9:05] Speaker 1: make those acrid sacrifices and offering cease. So everything in
[9:08] Speaker 1: Daniel already happened in the middle of the second century.
[9:11] Speaker 1: It didn't need to happen again. Doctor Jovis in the house.
[9:14] Speaker 1: Good to see you. Doctor Joe, thank you so much
[9:16] Speaker 1: for the paper Cranes. I appreciate that. Guys, if you
[9:20] Speaker 1: need to talk to a therapist, I highly recommend our friend,
[9:24] Speaker 1: doctor Joe. And Iceman in the house. Thank you for
[9:28] Speaker 1: the five dollars. Super thanks Iceman, I appreciate that. And
[9:31] Speaker 1: Tally Beck in the house tonight. Thank you so much
[9:33] Speaker 1: for the nineteen ninety nine I really appreciate that. Tally says,
[9:37] Speaker 1: good to see you justin and happy Sunday to everyone.
[9:40] Speaker 1: Will Tally, It's great to see you, and happy Sunday
[9:43] Speaker 1: to you. I hope you had a great weekend. All right,
[9:45] Speaker 1: So the guest boxes are all open. If you're watching
[9:48] Speaker 1: on YouTube, there is a link in the description of
[9:51] Speaker 1: the video. You can join as a guest by clicking
[9:54] Speaker 1: on the link in the In the description of the video,
[9:59] Speaker 1: it's tiny U r L dot com forward slash dzy
[10:05] Speaker 1: guest and uh you can uh, you can pop right in. Carrie,
[10:09] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the paper. Crane's good to
[10:10] Speaker 1: see you, Carrie Ray coming back for more of my friend.
[10:16] Speaker 6: Hello.
[10:18] Speaker 3: Wait, I oh wait, you can go first.
[10:21] Speaker 1: Sorry, no, I mean, what's your what's on your mind tonight?
[10:25] Speaker 3: Oh? Wait, I thought I kind of thought about the
[10:28] Speaker 3: stuff we talked about the other day, but since our
[10:31] Speaker 3: time has limited, I think, oh, I think we should
[10:34] Speaker 3: talk about other things and maybe come back if there's
[10:37] Speaker 3: more time. Sure, Okay, so the okay to two streams ago,
[10:47] Speaker 3: we were talking about the virgin birth in Isaiah seven.
[10:55] Speaker 3: Don't pull up? Should I just read it real quick.
[10:58] Speaker 1: I can put on the screen for you.
[10:59] Speaker 3: Okay.
[11:00] Speaker 1: So I'm gonna put Isaiah chapter seven.
[11:04] Speaker 3: You one second? Yeah? And then I think he was
[11:07] Speaker 3: specifically talking about verse fourteen, where it says, therefore the
[11:14] Speaker 3: Lord himself will give you a sign, and behold, the
[11:18] Speaker 3: Virgin shall conceive Embarissoni shall call his name em Manuel.
[11:22] Speaker 1: Right and that's the problem is it doesn't actually say virgin.
[11:25] Speaker 1: If your translation says virgin, you got to throw it out.
[11:30] Speaker 3: Yeah. And then there was like the other passage that
[11:33] Speaker 3: was like linked to this, and that was a Matthew
[11:36] Speaker 3: one twenty three.
[11:42] Speaker 5: If you one.
[11:43] Speaker 3: Twenty three, and then this was like where Matthew talks
[11:48] Speaker 3: about the the same verse like he kind of he
[11:53] Speaker 3: quotes it right, and then he says, all just theok
[11:56] Speaker 3: place to fulfill what Yeah, and he said, hold the
[12:00] Speaker 3: virgin shall conceive embarrassed son. So I took some notes
[12:04] Speaker 3: and I'm just gonna read off of the notes because
[12:07] Speaker 3: I don't know. I feel like if I just summarize it,
[12:10] Speaker 3: I'm gonna say some wrong things.
[12:14] Speaker 4: I go for it. Thanks for the headspin. I'm listening, Okay.
[12:19] Speaker 3: So, okay, the virgin birth in Isaiah, so the Hebrew
[12:25] Speaker 3: word says, okay, I'm gonna pronounce it says alma.
[12:30] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hot Alma.
[12:32] Speaker 3: For alma, which means young woman, but it often implies virginity.
[12:40] Speaker 3: So people argue that if if Isaiah meant virgin, he
[12:45] Speaker 3: would have used the tula definitely, but Alma is using
[12:53] Speaker 3: context where virginity is assumed for example Genesis twenty four
[12:58] Speaker 3: to forty three when talking about.
[13:01] Speaker 1: And then, but Alma does not mean strictly someone who
[13:06] Speaker 1: is not a virgin. It's used all kinds of places
[13:09] Speaker 1: to refer to people that are just young people. In fact,
[13:13] Speaker 1: you've got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight,
[13:17] Speaker 1: I've got nine instances in the Old Testament, and every
[13:22] Speaker 1: one of them just refers to a young person.
[13:25] Speaker 3: Yeah, because the wordlike means young women.
[13:29] Speaker 1: But well, allah does there's a masculine form. It's eli
[13:33] Speaker 1: em or elim, and elam is a young man.
[13:39] Speaker 3: Yeah. And then but in ancient like Jewish culture, a young,
[13:45] Speaker 3: unmarried woman was presumed to be a virgin.
[13:48] Speaker 1: Well, I didn't say that she was married.
[13:53] Speaker 3: Uh, I mean, I don't know.
[13:56] Speaker 1: And then, uh, that's what I'm saying is a young
[13:59] Speaker 1: woman has no marital status. It's just a young woman.
[14:05] Speaker 3: Right. And then in the Greek version, Alma is translated
[14:12] Speaker 3: as Parthenos switch, which is wait, so in the so
[14:18] Speaker 3: that would be the Greek version in the Old Testament, so,
[14:21] Speaker 3: and that would explicitly mean version. So that's like different.
[14:25] Speaker 1: That's the problem. In the time of Matthew, Parthenos almost
[14:29] Speaker 1: exclusively was used to refer to someone who was a
[14:31] Speaker 1: virgin in the time that Isaiah would have been translated
[14:35] Speaker 1: in the second century, maybe third century, even it was not,
[14:39] Speaker 1: We've got a bunch of examples from that time period
[14:41] Speaker 1: where Parthenos was referring to a young woman. One Even
[14:46] Speaker 1: in the Bible, if you go to Genesis thirty four
[14:49] Speaker 1: and talks about Dinah after she was graped by Schuckum,
[14:52] Speaker 1: she's referred to as a parthenos, And in the writings
[14:55] Speaker 1: of Homer we find the same thing.
[14:57] Speaker 4: We find parthenos being used generically of of young women,
[15:01] Speaker 4: married and unmarried.
[15:02] Speaker 1: Matthew just was interpreting the word the way he understood
[15:07] Speaker 1: it in his time period and didn't actually know that.
[15:10] Speaker 1: You know, words can take on different meanings, just like
[15:12] Speaker 1: you know, the word gay today has a completely different
[15:15] Speaker 1: meaning than what it meant one hundred years ago.
[15:20] Speaker 3: I see. So that's what I had on the word.
[15:23] Speaker 3: And then I had some things on like the interpretation
[15:27] Speaker 3: of the passage. Mm so okay, So there were four
[15:33] Speaker 3: four interpretations that people had. So the first one is
[15:39] Speaker 3: that Matthew was attracted to this specific part in the
[15:43] Speaker 3: Old Testament simply because, like I talked about like a
[15:47] Speaker 3: divine sum from Egypt, and he was either just misunderstood
[15:52] Speaker 3: that or it was just completely not interested in the
[15:55] Speaker 3: original sense of the text.
[15:57] Speaker 1: Well, he definitely wasn't interested in the original sense of
[16:00] Speaker 1: the text. We agree there so some yeah, so some so.
[16:06] Speaker 3: Some people would say that Matthews, Okay, this is the
[16:12] Speaker 3: word that they used to call it, a tounistic interpretation
[16:16] Speaker 3: is faulty, but other people say that this was a
[16:20] Speaker 3: legitimate way to interpret scripture at that time.
[16:25] Speaker 4: No, it wasn't.
[16:26] Speaker 3: Big.
[16:28] Speaker 1: So there's there's a couple of motive interpreting Old Testament
[16:31] Speaker 1: scriptures at the time period. I would not classify any
[16:34] Speaker 1: of them except for one as being appropriate. So the
[16:38] Speaker 1: hermeneutic that that you're that you must have found on
[16:41] Speaker 1: the internet is like, because some Jews were reading the
[16:44] Speaker 1: text in this way, then that means it's an appropriate
[16:47] Speaker 1: way to read the text.
[16:48] Speaker 5: But it's not.
[16:49] Speaker 1: It doesn't matter how some Jews were reading it hundreds
[16:52] Speaker 1: of years after it was written. It matters what was
[16:54] Speaker 1: the original tension of the author. Did the author intend
[16:57] Speaker 1: his prophecy to be completely devoid of the original context?
[17:01] Speaker 3: I would say no, Yeah, I don't think Isaiah intended
[17:09] Speaker 3: this passage to be like a prediction of Jesus, because
[17:14] Speaker 3: I think that specific passage it was like already fulfilled
[17:18] Speaker 3: during Isaiah's time, like it was some it was it
[17:22] Speaker 3: was like some it was like Isaiah son or something.
[17:26] Speaker 1: It was. Yeah, chapter eight, it was Isaiah's son. That's
[17:28] Speaker 1: that's my interpretation of it.
[17:32] Speaker 3: But here, okay, they called it ni drastic interpretation, yep.
[17:39] Speaker 3: And it's basically just taking like a like a story
[17:44] Speaker 3: from the Old Testament or like a prophecy of the
[17:46] Speaker 3: Old Testament, and then thinking about how that applies to
[17:50] Speaker 3: your own life today.
[17:52] Speaker 1: Right, that's just ignoring the original context and supplying your
[17:56] Speaker 1: own subjective meaning to it.
[17:59] Speaker 4: But like anyone can.
[18:00] Speaker 1: Do that, Like if you read the writings about Joseph Smith,
[18:04] Speaker 1: they attribute a bunch of prophecies in the Old Testament
[18:06] Speaker 1: to Joseph Smith. Because as long as you can divorce
[18:09] Speaker 1: it from its context, it could be about anyone.
[18:13] Speaker 3: Yeah, So this interpretation would be out of context, but
[18:20] Speaker 3: always just like a way to interpret from that.
[18:24] Speaker 1: Sure, And I wouldn't accept it as being valid because
[18:27] Speaker 1: if I did the same interpretation, if I interpreted the
[18:30] Speaker 1: passage divorced of its original context, and I just said
[18:35] Speaker 1: it's actually about me. Well, you definitely wouldn't accept that.
[18:41] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think it's fair that you don't
[18:44] Speaker 3: accept that as invalid. Do you only show the other points?
[18:50] Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean the other modes of interpretation is that
[18:52] Speaker 1: there's a near and a far fulfillment. Another mode of
[18:56] Speaker 1: interpretation is double fulfillment.
[19:04] Speaker 3: Okay, I think we're using different names for it, but okay,
[19:07] Speaker 3: this one was called the recapituation of Israel view. I'm
[19:12] Speaker 3: not sure which one that is, but it's just prompted
[19:18] Speaker 3: by Jesus' corporate identification with Israel and resulting from him
[19:25] Speaker 3: living major events and those history. And then this is
[19:30] Speaker 3: the type anti type prophecy, typological.
[19:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean that's completely the subjective too. We've
[19:40] Speaker 1: got a whole book full of histories about Israel. It's
[19:43] Speaker 1: not hard to go back and find ten or fifteen
[19:45] Speaker 1: of them that sounded like something you did and say, well,
[19:48] Speaker 1: I'm the new Israel's meaningless to me. I could do
[19:51] Speaker 1: the same thing. Like my son is Egyptian. I can
[19:54] Speaker 1: say that I've fulfilled a typological prophecy from Hosea, chapter eleven,
[19:58] Speaker 1: verse one out of Egypt I've called my then.
[20:02] Speaker 3: Wait, is your problem like with like this kind of
[20:07] Speaker 3: prophecy because like it doesn't predict, like it's not like
[20:13] Speaker 3: prediction of like what's going to happen in the future.
[20:17] Speaker 1: No, my contention is that they're saying that things need
[20:22] Speaker 1: to be fulfilled, but with the stuff that they're pointing
[20:24] Speaker 1: to half the time aren't even prophecies that need to
[20:27] Speaker 1: be fulfilled. And then the ones that are prophecies have
[20:31] Speaker 1: nothing to do with Jesus, Like this is just coping.
[20:34] Speaker 1: Like you would you would not accept this in any
[20:36] Speaker 1: other Holy book. If you read this in the Koran,
[20:38] Speaker 1: you'd say that's stupid. You're only you're only going back
[20:42] Speaker 1: and trying to say that it's legitimate because it's in
[20:44] Speaker 1: your book.
[20:47] Speaker 3: I wouldn't like be so fast to like call other
[20:52] Speaker 3: religions stupid because I feel like they're also like probably
[20:57] Speaker 3: just as well study that as like Christians.
[21:00] Speaker 1: Right, Okay, So then do you believe that Joseph Smith
[21:03] Speaker 1: fulfilled a bunch of prophecies from the Bible?
[21:07] Speaker 7: Uh?
[21:08] Speaker 3: No?
[21:09] Speaker 1: Why not? Deuteronomy eighteen is about Joseph Smith. He's the
[21:12] Speaker 1: one that comes after Moses, He's the prophet.
[21:15] Speaker 3: I mean he might have fulfilled it in the sense
[21:17] Speaker 3: of like, ah, like there's like parallels between what he
[21:23] Speaker 3: did and and like with things in the Bible.
[21:26] Speaker 1: But that's what the what you said about Jesus, he said,
[21:27] Speaker 1: it's not direct prophecy, it's his parallels.
[21:32] Speaker 3: So I guess both are true then, right.
[21:35] Speaker 1: Okay, So Joseph Smith is the prophet we should listen
[21:38] Speaker 1: to him.
[21:41] Speaker 3: Wait the reason I'm well, I don't think the reason
[21:46] Speaker 3: we believe in uh, like the Bible is because like
[21:51] Speaker 3: Jesus fulfilled these prophecies. That's like, that's like a side thing.
[21:57] Speaker 3: Actually the main I.
[21:58] Speaker 1: Think that's the main thing. That's what the Messiah is
[22:00] Speaker 1: supposed to do. Like, you don't know who the Messiah
[22:03] Speaker 1: is unless they come and they fulfill the predictions that
[22:06] Speaker 1: were made about the Messiah. That's how you know who
[22:08] Speaker 1: the Messiah is.
[22:11] Speaker 3: Oh okay, wait, I take that back then, Okay. I
[22:18] Speaker 3: asked someone about this and then the response they gave
[22:24] Speaker 3: me wash. We often think in our modern context that
[22:30] Speaker 3: fulfilled means predicted. But ah, so Jesus would have been
[22:37] Speaker 3: seen as the ultimate end version or fulfillment of Isaiah's story,
[22:44] Speaker 3: and it's looking back in order to make sense of
[22:47] Speaker 3: the present and the Jewish people of time would have
[22:50] Speaker 3: used this kind of teaching. Was Isaiah described me as
[22:53] Speaker 3: becoming Messiah? Answer would no, but like kind of.
[23:02] Speaker 1: I mean, the problem that you have here is that
[23:04] Speaker 1: the New Testament wants Jesus to be the Messiah that
[23:09] Speaker 1: was predicted in the Old Testament. If it didn't, then
[23:11] Speaker 1: it wouldn't be quoting all these supposed prophecies about the Messiah.
[23:16] Speaker 1: So like, at some point you just have to admit that, like, listen,
[23:20] Speaker 1: if the Messiah comes, we should be able to recognize
[23:23] Speaker 1: that the Messiah is the Messiah based on what God
[23:26] Speaker 1: told us beforehand. God says in the Book of Amos,
[23:29] Speaker 1: I don't do anything before revealing it to the people
[23:32] Speaker 1: through the prophets.
[23:39] Speaker 3: Sh Okay, maybe I okay, that's all I know about
[23:48] Speaker 3: this topic. That's fair, Okay. Is there like any question
[23:59] Speaker 3: that you think I should ask two? Like maybe later
[24:03] Speaker 3: to other people about this.
[24:07] Speaker 5: Clarify.
[24:08] Speaker 1: Hey, give me a second to think on that, Parker.
[24:11] Speaker 1: Thank you for the polaris. Here's what I would do.
[24:14] Speaker 1: I would take them to some of the same prophecies,
[24:18] Speaker 1: like take them to Isaiah forty verses three through five,
[24:23] Speaker 1: where it says that there's a voice of him calling
[24:25] Speaker 1: out in the wilderness, prepare the way of the Lord,
[24:28] Speaker 1: make straight his path. Now, the Mormons believe that this
[24:31] Speaker 1: was fulfilled in Joseph Smith and in John the Baptist.
[24:35] Speaker 1: They believe in multiple fulfillments, which is what Christians believe to.
[24:40] Speaker 1: So I would just ask them, would you accept that
[24:42] Speaker 1: Joseph Smith is a fulfillment of Isaiah chapter forty. If
[24:46] Speaker 1: the answer is no, then neither is Jesus.
[24:51] Speaker 3: Okay, I just put that down.
[24:54] Speaker 1: Right, because Isaiah forty had nothing to do with Jesus'
[24:58] Speaker 1: time period. Isaiah forty was about the restoration period after
[25:01] Speaker 1: the captivity.
[25:06] Speaker 3: All right, that makes sense, hmm.
[25:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, I would asco maybe take them to I've been
[25:18] Speaker 1: picking on Psalm one ten today, but take them to
[25:20] Speaker 1: some one ten and show them how Jesus couldn't read
[25:24] Speaker 1: Psalm one ten properly.
[25:27] Speaker 3: Wait one hundred and ten or one ten?
[25:30] Speaker 1: Sorry, yeah, Psalm one hundred and ten.
[25:32] Speaker 4: Verse one.
[25:33] Speaker 1: Jesus gets it wrong. Jesus says that David is speaking,
[25:37] Speaker 1: and David says the Lord said to my Lord, when
[25:41] Speaker 1: that's not actually true. David is not the one speaking
[25:43] Speaker 1: it's somebody from the court speaking about King David saying,
[25:47] Speaker 1: yahweh said to my lord meeting my master.
[25:55] Speaker 3: Okay, that's sounds good. Maybe we could go back to
[26:03] Speaker 3: the judgment stuff. Mhm, because I remember, Okay, I was
[26:13] Speaker 3: kind of listening to what I said last time, and
[26:15] Speaker 3: then I realized I was like contradicting the notes I
[26:20] Speaker 3: was writing. And I don't agree with some of it.
[26:24] Speaker 3: But you were asking, though, like the the concubines right
[26:36] Speaker 3: with Absalom, and I think, okay, I think my new
[26:46] Speaker 3: take is that, like what happened to the concubines was
[26:52] Speaker 3: not a punishment since the concubines didn't do anything wrong.
[26:59] Speaker 1: I agree that concubines didn't do anything wrong, which is
[27:01] Speaker 1: why it's horrific that God had him graped.
[27:07] Speaker 3: Yeah, but that wouldn't be a punishment because.
[27:13] Speaker 1: They did it hurt them.
[27:18] Speaker 3: Yeah, that would count as suffering.
[27:21] Speaker 1: But so they did suffer too, Yeah, Okay, that's all
[27:26] Speaker 1: I care about. I don't care what you call it.
[27:28] Speaker 1: God made them suffer for crimes they didn't commit.
[27:35] Speaker 8: Kay O.
[27:37] Speaker 3: Wait, so what was like the Oh so that's like
[27:42] Speaker 3: the problem in itself.
[27:44] Speaker 1: Then the problem, yes, is that David committed the crime
[27:48] Speaker 1: and the women paid the fine. That's the problem.
[27:53] Speaker 3: But what I'm saying is that, okay, all right, right,
[28:00] Speaker 3: but yeah.
[28:06] Speaker 1: Right, you can let go. It's gonna be okay. You
[28:09] Speaker 1: don't have to hold on to this thing. It's not
[28:11] Speaker 1: serving you.
[28:13] Speaker 5: Wait.
[28:14] Speaker 3: I had one thing I was going to say about it,
[28:16] Speaker 3: but I kind of forgot. I wanted to hear what
[28:19] Speaker 3: you want to say. Okay, I probably can't remember while
[28:28] Speaker 3: I'm on this slide.
[28:30] Speaker 1: All right, Well, I mean, you know, you know where
[28:32] Speaker 1: to find me.
[28:32] Speaker 4: You can always come back.
[28:36] Speaker 2: All right.
[28:37] Speaker 3: I think that's all I had. I think we should
[28:39] Speaker 3: move on.
[28:40] Speaker 1: Okay, Right, it's good to hear from your friend.
[28:44] Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, bye bye, have a go one.
[28:49] Speaker 1: I remember being young and being in that place where
[28:52] Speaker 1: like I wasn't ready to let it go. I get it.
[28:56] Speaker 4: I was there.
[28:57] Speaker 1: We were all there. Most of us were there at
[28:59] Speaker 1: some point time. Uh, mister mister has said today, I
[29:03] Speaker 1: learned how to live forever. Stop eating. I listen, that
[29:07] Speaker 1: call in person was crazy. That was a crazy call.
[29:11] Speaker 1: Thanks for the super chat and it's all an illusion.
[29:14] Speaker 1: Welcome to the crack and Crew, Big w and Noah
[29:18] Speaker 1: Lyons eight dead babies on the arc. Big w for
[29:22] Speaker 1: the super chat. I appreciate that. It says, rapture must
[29:24] Speaker 1: be happening. Another plane fell out of the sky in
[29:27] Speaker 1: the Promised Land of USA and a Baptist version. They
[29:30] Speaker 1: must all be wait a minute, they must be hold on, okay,
[29:33] Speaker 1: hold on?
[29:34] Speaker 6: Wait?
[29:34] Speaker 1: Am I behind? Is there another plane crash? What did
[29:38] Speaker 1: a plane go down? I'm guys, I'm way behind on
[29:41] Speaker 1: the news. I apologize. This is actually this would be
[29:44] Speaker 1: really big if another one went down like that would
[29:47] Speaker 1: be a kind of a big deal. That's like two
[29:50] Speaker 1: like within a month or maybe two months. Holy shit.
[29:54] Speaker 5: Yeh.
[29:56] Speaker 1: I don't want to get on I do not want
[29:57] Speaker 1: to get on a plane. I'll drive it. I don't care.
[30:00] Speaker 1: I'm not getting on planes right now. It's crazy. Nah,
[30:04] Speaker 1: not gonna do it. Not not interested at all. I'll
[30:09] Speaker 1: take a Greyhound or a trained man.
[30:11] Speaker 4: Thanks for the update.
[30:11] Speaker 1: By the way, Anime two two zero seven seven says
[30:15] Speaker 1: I love the airwalk hoodie. I rocked those in the school,
[30:17] Speaker 1: big w enemy, I appreciate that. And listen. When I
[30:21] Speaker 1: start seeing airwalk stuff come back, I'm gonna grab it.
[30:24] Speaker 1: I wish I still had my old airwalk clothes when
[30:26] Speaker 1: I was young, and uh, you know, had a lower
[30:30] Speaker 1: hairline and a smaller waistline. My conscience. Thank you so
[30:33] Speaker 1: much for the fin hour supertest says the Mormon Church
[30:35] Speaker 1: almost had to send you a check for a convert
[30:40] Speaker 1: I hope he goes back and listens carefully with an
[30:42] Speaker 1: open mind. Later maybe we'll see. He's a good kid,
[30:45] Speaker 1: you know. I think he'll figure it out. All right,
[30:48] Speaker 1: let me get our next guest in here.
[30:58] Speaker 9: I'm fine, Thank you, How are you doing good?
[31:02] Speaker 1: Thank you for asking. It's been a minute since we talked,
[31:04] Speaker 1: But I know you're over the age of eighteen, so
[31:06] Speaker 1: I'm not going to ask you that, so I will
[31:09] Speaker 1: get right into the discussion. Then, what would be your
[31:12] Speaker 1: most convincing evidence or argument for why your God is real?
[31:17] Speaker 5: Oh?
[31:17] Speaker 3: Yeah, I can. I can answer that question.
[31:19] Speaker 9: And just to let you know, but I've actually thought
[31:22] Speaker 9: maybe I haven't encountered you before, but I would also
[31:25] Speaker 9: like to I think we've chatted a question. Maybe maybe
[31:30] Speaker 9: I would like to request beforehand, as with if I
[31:32] Speaker 9: could maybe ask you some questions after I answer yours.
[31:37] Speaker 9: So I mean, what, yeah, sorry, what what God is?
[31:40] Speaker 9: Your God is imaginary?
[31:41] Speaker 2: Proved me?
[31:41] Speaker 3: Wrong.
[31:42] Speaker 9: What was the question again? Sorry?
[31:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, what would be the most convincing argument or evidence
[31:48] Speaker 1: for your particular god being real? Which one do you worship?
[31:53] Speaker 6: Allah?
[31:53] Speaker 3: I'm a Muslim, Okay.
[31:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, so what would be like a convincing argument why
[31:58] Speaker 1: I would think that this thing is real?
[32:02] Speaker 9: So, I mean, I'm not really good at you're an atheist,
[32:07] Speaker 9: I'm guessing right, I'm not really that good at debating
[32:11] Speaker 9: atheists or convincing them. I haven't really researched atheism enough
[32:16] Speaker 9: or their stances. But if somebody did already believe in
[32:20] Speaker 9: God or a higher power or whatever, I would just
[32:24] Speaker 9: argue that when you look at religions logically and concepts
[32:28] Speaker 9: of God, that our Light is the most logically sound.
[32:34] Speaker 3: God.
[32:35] Speaker 9: And there's a lot of historical evidence for that.
[32:38] Speaker 1: Also, I would disagree that he's the most logical of
[32:41] Speaker 1: the gods. I think if there was, like of the
[32:45] Speaker 1: established religions, if there was a most logical religion, probably
[32:49] Speaker 1: going to go with like Buddhism.
[32:53] Speaker 9: Okay, why would that be. I don't know much about
[32:55] Speaker 9: Buddhist IM know a bit about Hinduism, but but it's
[32:57] Speaker 9: Buddhism an offshoot of Hinduism.
[33:00] Speaker 3: It's not.
[33:01] Speaker 1: Buddhism has a lot less entailments in their view of God,
[33:05] Speaker 1: and their God is a lot less We're gonna say,
[33:09] Speaker 1: a lot less personal, a lot less involved in the
[33:11] Speaker 1: daily affairs. And uh. He also doesn't call prophets the
[33:15] Speaker 1: diddle diddle children. Mm okay, unless I'm wrong, guys, did
[33:23] Speaker 1: Buddha ever touch a child? I don't think he ever did.
[33:26] Speaker 1: I could be wrong.
[33:29] Speaker 9: I mean, who is Buddha? Is that Siddartha?
[33:33] Speaker 1: Buddha was just a sage you might call him.
[33:37] Speaker 9: Yeah, if I really cool? Was his name Siddartha? Or
[33:39] Speaker 9: did he like?
[33:40] Speaker 6: Was he was?
[33:40] Speaker 5: He?
[33:40] Speaker 3: Is?
[33:40] Speaker 9: He the one that falls from a rich family and
[33:42] Speaker 9: then he swore off riches and went out into the wouldness?
[33:45] Speaker 1: Well, there's actually an of people that did that, but
[33:48] Speaker 1: Buddhism does he he he did teach will say, like
[33:55] Speaker 1: forsaking the pleasures of the world.
[33:59] Speaker 8: Okay.
[34:00] Speaker 3: Also, what was he like a virgin? Did he died
[34:02] Speaker 3: or something? No?
[34:03] Speaker 1: I think he was married at one point.
[34:04] Speaker 9: Actually, well, I mean, I don't know how much information
[34:09] Speaker 9: we have about the Buddha, but going back to his
[34:13] Speaker 9: time period, I mean I think it's a stretch too.
[34:16] Speaker 9: I mean he did if he was intimate with other
[34:19] Speaker 9: human beings. I think it's a stretch to say that
[34:21] Speaker 9: he didn't quote unquote did all kids. I mean, how
[34:23] Speaker 9: far a go did he live? I don't even know
[34:25] Speaker 9: what the concept was for a child back then, but
[34:28] Speaker 9: you can go deep into it, but I don't even
[34:30] Speaker 9: know what information you would go on to know that well.
[34:35] Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if there's definitive evidence that
[34:37] Speaker 1: he never did. But what I do know is that
[34:40] Speaker 1: there's there's no mythology within Buddhism that proudly asserts that
[34:45] Speaker 1: he did, which is I think kind of the biggest
[34:49] Speaker 1: problem with Islam is that they were so openly proud
[34:55] Speaker 1: of the prophet marrying a six year old and consummating
[34:58] Speaker 1: the marriage at age nine, that you would think that
[35:02] Speaker 1: the culture would have not been so happy about that.
[35:09] Speaker 9: I mean, it was like they didn't have an issue
[35:12] Speaker 9: with it. I mean it's one four hundred years ago.
[35:14] Speaker 9: I mean, if you look back in history, there's a
[35:15] Speaker 9: lot of quote unquote kid diddling, it wasn't really I think,
[35:19] Speaker 9: even like Alexander the Great's father, King Philip the Second,
[35:24] Speaker 9: was with a lot of what we would call children
[35:26] Speaker 9: boys specifically as well when they don't seem to say
[35:30] Speaker 9: it in a negative way, it's just what is.
[35:33] Speaker 1: Do you believe what they're objective?
[35:38] Speaker 9: To a degree, yeah, I mean I like history, and
[35:42] Speaker 9: I do think that morality is very loose historically.
[35:48] Speaker 1: Like you know, is there such a thing as an
[35:52] Speaker 1: objective moral code?
[35:53] Speaker 4: Is what I'm asking.
[35:56] Speaker 9: I do think, yes, there is, because I do believe
[35:59] Speaker 9: in instincts. I do believe, like you know, like nature
[36:03] Speaker 9: has instincts and we see patterns. But then I also
[36:08] Speaker 9: do believe that, like morality, just a human psyche in
[36:11] Speaker 9: general is so malleable in regards to upbringing that it
[36:16] Speaker 9: just can so drastically change throughout the centuries, depending on
[36:20] Speaker 9: where you are. That's kind of hard to make a
[36:24] Speaker 9: very blunt statement about that, but yeah, but I do
[36:27] Speaker 9: believe there are, like you know, there are instincts, like
[36:30] Speaker 9: you have maternal instincts towards your offspring.
[36:35] Speaker 1: So there's a lot of words. When all was required
[36:37] Speaker 1: was yes or no. I just asked if there's an
[36:40] Speaker 1: objective moral code, it's just a yes or nowhere maybe.
[36:44] Speaker 9: I think to a degree, I don't know what.
[36:48] Speaker 1: To a degree means. I mean, either morals are objective
[36:50] Speaker 1: or they're not.
[36:52] Speaker 4: What does that mean.
[36:53] Speaker 1: That's like saying, like, you know, are you a human
[36:57] Speaker 1: to a degree? No, I'm a human, this is what
[37:00] Speaker 1: I am.
[37:03] Speaker 9: So like yeah, yeah, but I mean I feel like
[37:07] Speaker 9: human morality is very like basic outside of our constructs,
[37:13] Speaker 9: like yeah, okay, yeah, I'll just say yeah for arguments.
[37:16] Speaker 4: That yeah, okay, yeah.
[37:18] Speaker 1: I mean if you believe in a God, then either
[37:20] Speaker 1: one of two things is true. Morals are objective and
[37:23] Speaker 1: they're like they come from the nature of God, or
[37:26] Speaker 1: morals are subjective but they're subjective to the mind of God.
[37:30] Speaker 9: Right, Yes, so I believe that, like morality is from God.
[37:39] Speaker 9: But then also in the quarter and it wounds that
[37:40] Speaker 9: people that don't have God can lack revert back to
[37:44] Speaker 9: like animal animalistic ways of thinking, like just to your
[37:49] Speaker 9: your base desires. So that's why I'm That's what I'm saying.
[37:54] Speaker 9: It's it's a bit tricky for me to answer that.
[37:58] Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you're think what you're describing as subjective morality,
[38:02] Speaker 1: which is what I follow. I think morals are subjective.
[38:05] Speaker 1: I think we invent them. But so I only asked
[38:08] Speaker 1: that to ask you this, like would it be wrong
[38:10] Speaker 1: to marry nine year olds today because it's legal in
[38:15] Speaker 1: Iraq right now?
[38:18] Speaker 9: Yes, yeah, so I personally I would say no, I
[38:23] Speaker 9: mean it's wrong because but again that's because that's the
[38:29] Speaker 9: way I was raised, like I'm British. But I don't know,
[38:31] Speaker 9: I don't know how I would answer that. If I
[38:33] Speaker 9: was like raised in Thailand or something, or in another
[38:37] Speaker 9: place in the world where that's the norm, I would
[38:39] Speaker 9: probably say something different.
[38:42] Speaker 6: Okay.
[38:42] Speaker 1: So then the next question then is if it's wrong,
[38:45] Speaker 1: why is it wrong now? But it was okay then.
[38:49] Speaker 9: Yes, So I just answered you because I'm a product
[38:51] Speaker 9: of my upbringing on my environment, right.
[38:53] Speaker 1: Right, right, But you're suggesting that like it is wrong, right,
[38:59] Speaker 1: but it was okay due.
[39:00] Speaker 9: To my culture and my upbringing. Yeah, but that that's
[39:03] Speaker 9: what I've been raised as a British citizen to know,
[39:07] Speaker 9: that's my education and my like you know, in regards
[39:11] Speaker 9: to social environment. That's it's just always been wrong. But
[39:16] Speaker 9: if I was not born here and I was born
[39:17] Speaker 9: in another place, I probably wouldn't think that way.
[39:20] Speaker 1: Is it haram?
[39:22] Speaker 9: No, it's not harm No, as far as I know.
[39:24] Speaker 9: In Islam, it's hallo to marry what we would call
[39:28] Speaker 9: a child, Yeah, okay, and I mean a child in
[39:31] Speaker 9: general like ail, not even like what we would call
[39:33] Speaker 9: a child like it just yeah, you can. I think
[39:35] Speaker 9: in Islam you can marry a child. Maybe I'm wrong,
[39:38] Speaker 9: but from my understanding, I think that, yeah you can
[39:41] Speaker 9: do that.
[39:43] Speaker 1: Okay, So it's permitted then, so yeah.
[39:46] Speaker 9: I think I think I think. So you can fact
[39:49] Speaker 9: check me, but yeah, I think so.
[39:50] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[39:51] Speaker 4: So from my understanding, it is actually permitted.
[39:54] Speaker 1: As far it's all I've been able to full find
[39:57] Speaker 1: on it.
[39:57] Speaker 4: It says that it's it's permitted. Okay.
[39:59] Speaker 1: So are things permitted or not permitted based on them
[40:03] Speaker 1: being right or wrong?
[40:09] Speaker 9: What in regards to like Islam, like what Allah has said,
[40:12] Speaker 9: that what he says has to line up with what's
[40:14] Speaker 9: right and wrong?
[40:15] Speaker 3: Is what you mean?
[40:15] Speaker 1: Well, I guess my suggestion is, like we have these
[40:18] Speaker 1: ideas of things that are either halau or haram, and
[40:21] Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out how do we determined what
[40:25] Speaker 1: is halau and haram?
[40:29] Speaker 5: Oh?
[40:29] Speaker 9: Yeah, we just yeah, in Islam, whatever Allah has told
[40:32] Speaker 9: us a lot and Muhammad has told us is right
[40:35] Speaker 9: and wrong is yeah, that's what we take is right
[40:37] Speaker 9: and wrong.
[40:38] Speaker 1: Okay, So if it's if it's halloo, then it's trite.
[40:42] Speaker 9: Yeah, Halao is permissible.
[40:45] Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So then marrying nine year olds is permissible.
[40:49] Speaker 4: It's halo and Islam.
[40:51] Speaker 3: Yeah that's what it says.
[40:53] Speaker 1: Okay, So you just disagree with your religion then, which
[40:55] Speaker 1: is fine. Listen, If you disagree with your religion, then
[40:58] Speaker 1: I'll give you a big w for being honest.
[41:02] Speaker 9: No, I never once said that. Oh I don't know
[41:05] Speaker 9: where you're getting that from.
[41:06] Speaker 1: Oh, sorry, maybe I'm confused. So in your mind, then
[41:09] Speaker 1: marrying nine year olds is halal?
[41:12] Speaker 3: It is halal in Islam?
[41:13] Speaker 1: Yes, no, no, for you? Is it halal.
[41:18] Speaker 3: Religiously?
[41:19] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[41:19] Speaker 9: But not not legally. No, I'm not I'm born and
[41:22] Speaker 9: raised in England. I'm not allowed to do that.
[41:23] Speaker 1: I can imagine you're on an island without any laws yet,
[41:27] Speaker 1: would it be halal for you on the island?
[41:31] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean it would be.
[41:33] Speaker 9: I mean I wouldn't do that because I'm not attracted
[41:35] Speaker 9: to children.
[41:36] Speaker 3: But yeah, hello wise.
[41:37] Speaker 1: Yeah Czeck's browser history.
[41:40] Speaker 9: Yeah, I think I think that's clearly what you're looking for. Deconstruction.
[41:43] Speaker 9: But I've been pretty honest. But maybe you're just trying
[41:45] Speaker 9: to get like a got you moment.
[41:47] Speaker 1: But no, I think you have been honest. But this
[41:50] Speaker 1: religion is kind of sick. So do you also think
[41:53] Speaker 1: that then it's okay to execute a pastates.
[41:58] Speaker 9: That is what Islam says. Yeah, I mean there is.
[42:01] Speaker 9: I mean that's a tricky one for me because I mean, again,
[42:05] Speaker 9: like I wasn't brought up like that's not the norm, like,
[42:09] Speaker 9: but yeah, I do think within Shadiyah there is a
[42:13] Speaker 9: criteria that if somebody fits who's an apostate, then yeah,
[42:17] Speaker 9: I think that that they can be executed in regards
[42:20] Speaker 9: to and.
[42:21] Speaker 1: You guys, wonder why we think you guys are violent.
[42:23] Speaker 1: Isn't that weird that you you're like over here scratching
[42:27] Speaker 1: your head. I don't know why they think Islam is violent.
[42:31] Speaker 9: Because yeah, I mean we you know, Islam has apostate
[42:37] Speaker 9: laws and people are executed like for religion, and I
[42:41] Speaker 9: mean where you hail from, people are unlived on mass
[42:45] Speaker 9: for resources and land. But I guess maybe you could argue,
[42:50] Speaker 9: as a human being who's an atheist, that that's that's
[42:52] Speaker 9: a great deal more understandable because I guess that's like
[42:55] Speaker 9: human nature, you want resources.
[42:58] Speaker 3: And you want land.
[42:59] Speaker 9: Whereas when about religion, but it's it's kind of just
[43:02] Speaker 9: like tomatoes and tomatoes. It's like everyone's un a living people.
[43:06] Speaker 9: It just depends for what.
[43:07] Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't believe.
[43:09] Speaker 1: I don't actually believe in under unliving people. But isn't
[43:14] Speaker 1: the goal of Islam to cover the entire earth?
[43:19] Speaker 8: Yes?
[43:20] Speaker 9: Well, I wouldn't say the goal. It's I wouldn't say
[43:23] Speaker 9: it's the goal, but it's it's prophesied that Islam will
[43:27] Speaker 9: rule the world. And then some dispute, is that forever?
[43:32] Speaker 9: Most say it's for a fixed period of time. It's
[43:34] Speaker 9: not forever. But you know, this is like we're talking
[43:38] Speaker 9: about like end time prophecies like Jesus coming back, the
[43:42] Speaker 9: Anti Christ and things like that, like will be the
[43:44] Speaker 9: only ones left, Like that's the way that will happen.
[43:48] Speaker 1: Hey, we're going on, I'm going to see a buddy. Yes,
[43:57] Speaker 1: So another question, then, do you guys? I mean you're
[44:04] Speaker 1: you're a British Muslim, so, like I think your viewpoints
[44:07] Speaker 1: are a little bit different than people living elsewhere. Uh,
[44:10] Speaker 1: do you agree with the Qoran when it says that
[44:13] Speaker 1: you know, when making contracts you need two women to
[44:15] Speaker 1: equal one man.
[44:20] Speaker 9: I don't know about a contract I know about witnesses
[44:23] Speaker 9: to particular sins that one man's testimony is equal to
[44:29] Speaker 9: two women's. So for one man, who need two women?
[44:34] Speaker 9: I don't know about what what is it that you
[44:35] Speaker 9: so specifically it's.
[44:37] Speaker 1: In Quran chapter two. I think it's too eighty two
[44:41] Speaker 1: talks about how you need two women to equal the
[44:45] Speaker 1: weight of one man.
[44:47] Speaker 9: Oh, okay, I didn't know about contracts, but I know
[44:50] Speaker 9: that I know that that is for if somebody has
[44:51] Speaker 9: committed a crime like like adultery and what alluded to
[44:58] Speaker 9: in much contracts to Okay, But the thing is, when
[45:02] Speaker 9: you're having a marriage contract, you cannot have four women
[45:05] Speaker 9: with this is you have to have two women and
[45:06] Speaker 9: one marriage contract is invalid if it's only women with
[45:10] Speaker 9: the sing it okay. Cool.
[45:12] Speaker 1: So, like we started the conversation suggesting you were suggesting
[45:17] Speaker 1: that Islam is like the most logical of the formalized religions.
[45:21] Speaker 10: And now we said God not Islam.
[45:24] Speaker 1: Well, the God of Islam is your God, and so
[45:27] Speaker 1: like you can't disconnect them. It's like saying that you know,
[45:30] Speaker 1: Christianity is disconnected from the Christian God.
[45:33] Speaker 4: That's I don't think that's the right move to make.
[45:36] Speaker 1: But like so when we look at it, but when
[45:40] Speaker 1: we look at the teachings of the God, to me,
[45:42] Speaker 1: they're not logical. You know, they get embryology wrong. They
[45:46] Speaker 1: think that women are less than men. They get treated
[45:49] Speaker 1: like property. The God is okay with being violent to
[45:53] Speaker 1: people who have done nothing wrong other than leaving a religion,
[45:57] Speaker 1: like practicing autonomy in their belief system. This is a
[46:00] Speaker 1: logical deity to me.
[46:04] Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, I mean we could dispute over women.
[46:10] Speaker 9: I mean, I mean I've known a lot of women,
[46:13] Speaker 9: and it's not like dealing with a man.
[46:17] Speaker 1: But they're way more graceful and intelligent.
[46:20] Speaker 7: I know.
[46:22] Speaker 3: No, no, that's not correct. I don't know why you
[46:26] Speaker 3: would even say that, because it's true.
[46:29] Speaker 1: It's been proven that they multitask better, they have better
[46:32] Speaker 1: memories than men. This is a crazy thing, is that
[46:35] Speaker 1: not only do they have better memories than men do
[46:37] Speaker 1: on testing, but it's also uh, that's like one of
[46:41] Speaker 1: the reasons why there you need to female witnesses in
[46:44] Speaker 1: the Koran in case one of the women forgets. But
[46:48] Speaker 1: like we've done studies, we know they remember things better
[46:50] Speaker 1: than we do.
[46:53] Speaker 9: Well, I don't know about your studies, but yeah, that's
[46:58] Speaker 9: from my personal experience. I mean it's not it's not
[47:00] Speaker 9: even about I mean, multitasking.
[47:01] Speaker 3: Yeah, I would agree with you on that, but.
[47:04] Speaker 9: I'm talking more about, you know, just in regards to
[47:09] Speaker 9: decision making, like you know, yeah, they're just not really
[47:15] Speaker 9: great at that. I mean, maybe that's just my experience.
[47:17] Speaker 9: I mean I've known a lot of women, but.
[47:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So in this article, let's see, it's called
[47:26] Speaker 1: the intensity hypothesis. The hypothesis is that females demonstrate superior
[47:33] Speaker 1: memory function because of the intensity of their responses to
[47:36] Speaker 1: emotional experiences that exceeds the average male reactions. I actually
[47:41] Speaker 1: read about this the first time when I was in college.
[47:44] Speaker 1: So the way the brain memorizes things is if you
[47:49] Speaker 1: can attach an emotion to a memory, it actually remembers
[47:53] Speaker 1: it better. And so this is the hypothesis is that
[47:56] Speaker 1: this is why women have such better memories, is because
[47:59] Speaker 1: they actually are able to more readily integrate how they're
[48:03] Speaker 1: feeling with their actual emotions, whereas men have a hard
[48:07] Speaker 1: time even understanding our own emotions. And that's that's why
[48:11] Speaker 1: women have better memories, which means they would make the
[48:15] Speaker 1: perfect witness.
[48:18] Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, like I said, I would have to disagree,
[48:20] Speaker 9: like even when it's talking about emotion, like women don't
[48:24] Speaker 9: do well in regards to shock and violence in remembering
[48:29] Speaker 9: things and acting that men most certainly do. And again
[48:33] Speaker 9: you could say, no, that's very true. I mean if you,
[48:36] Speaker 9: I don't know where you come from, but I come
[48:38] Speaker 9: from where there's a hang on. I come from an
[48:41] Speaker 9: area where there's a great deal of violence, and I've
[48:43] Speaker 9: seen this for myself. So I don't know if you
[48:46] Speaker 9: want to argue that men are hardwired going back to that,
[48:49] Speaker 9: I don't know hunter gatherer days that were built to
[48:51] Speaker 9: do that. But I mean, look, men and women, they
[48:53] Speaker 9: have their their pros and cons. Like I don't really
[48:56] Speaker 9: want to get into the whole, like who's better men
[48:59] Speaker 9: or women?
[49:00] Speaker 3: I don't even like that right question.
[49:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, we shouldn't discuss what the Koran says. So a study,
[49:04] Speaker 1: a meta study that looked at forty different studies on memory,
[49:08] Speaker 1: says that generally women perform better when it comes to
[49:11] Speaker 1: remembering verbal information such as words, sentences, texts, and objects,
[49:15] Speaker 1: but also the location of objects and movies, whereas men
[49:20] Speaker 1: can better recall abstract images or like remember their way
[49:25] Speaker 1: back home from a particular location. Actually, this has been
[49:27] Speaker 1: studied quite extensively too, so just when it comes to
[49:31] Speaker 1: remembering things, women in general just do it better, which
[49:35] Speaker 1: means they make better witnesses.
[49:38] Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, I find you know, I find it
[49:40] Speaker 9: interesting that I'm you know, I'm thirty three years old.
[49:43] Speaker 9: You've seem like you're maybe a bit older than me.
[49:45] Speaker 9: I would guess like forty two or for forty three
[49:48] Speaker 9: or something.
[49:48] Speaker 4: But dude, I'm a I'm like one hundred years old.
[49:53] Speaker 3: How old are you?
[49:53] Speaker 4: I'm just fucking around. I'm only forty.
[49:56] Speaker 3: Yeah, so you look you look about that age.
[49:59] Speaker 1: Thanks, I appreciate that.
[50:01] Speaker 9: No worries, man, But I mean I'm giving you, like
[50:04] Speaker 9: I'm thirty three years old, I'm giving you just personal
[50:07] Speaker 9: you know, experiences as a man. But you keep on
[50:09] Speaker 9: referring to studies.
[50:11] Speaker 1: Like because is better than anecdotics.
[50:15] Speaker 9: I disagree. You know, I don't know who these people are.
[50:19] Speaker 9: I don't know who did these studies.
[50:20] Speaker 3: I don't know how many.
[50:20] Speaker 11: I don't know anything about the study role. You're just
[50:22] Speaker 11: showing the study in the stream. You can read the study.
[50:26] Speaker 11: And by the way, just the reason that women have
[50:30] Speaker 11: a marory connection of memory with emotions is because the
[50:33] Speaker 11: SME area that is responsible for the controlled of impulses
[50:36] Speaker 11: and impulsive decisions is the deal which is point of
[50:39] Speaker 11: the Olympic system that connects the emotional point of the
[50:42] Speaker 11: memories to again the memories that we have.
[50:46] Speaker 9: And I'm going to be honest, I found it hard
[50:48] Speaker 9: to track anything. You know, I heard a migdala or something.
[50:53] Speaker 9: Maybe your MAC is a bit low.
[50:55] Speaker 2: But will see that it's controlled the seed point that
[50:57] Speaker 2: controls the impulsive decisions. So we gain the some of
[51:00] Speaker 2: women some bad from taking an impulsive decision regarding the
[51:04] Speaker 2: don't even think that have been in front of them.
[51:06] Speaker 2: Is the same point is responsible for connection of emotional
[51:09] Speaker 2: memories to the point to the brain.
[51:12] Speaker 9: Again, I just I just had impulsive memory and brain.
[51:18] Speaker 9: It's fine, m I mean, I know ms from other lives,
[51:22] Speaker 9: but it's hard sometimes for me to track what he's saying.
[51:25] Speaker 9: But I mean, look, I didn't really want to get
[51:27] Speaker 9: too bogged down on the women thing. It's I don't
[51:30] Speaker 9: really want to discuss that, but.
[51:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't want to discuss the most horrific part
[51:35] Speaker 1: of my religion either.
[51:37] Speaker 9: Yeah, but this is what I'm saying, Like you you know,
[51:39] Speaker 9: you keep trying to do it, trying to make it
[51:41] Speaker 9: allowed to drive.
[51:44] Speaker 3: Yeah, of course they should. Islam doesn't say they can't drive.
[51:47] Speaker 3: That's a Saudi cultural thing.
[51:49] Speaker 1: And I'm just trying to figure out either countries in
[51:52] Speaker 1: which they can should they be allowed to.
[51:55] Speaker 9: I would prefer that they wouldn't. I mean, I prefer
[51:57] Speaker 9: to limit.
[51:58] Speaker 1: But you prefer that women don't drive?
[52:00] Speaker 9: Why just to limit their freedom? I think women shouldn't
[52:04] Speaker 9: have as much freedom as they have.
[52:06] Speaker 1: You're a real piece.
[52:09] Speaker 3: Why is that?
[52:11] Speaker 1: I bet the UK is really happy they got you.
[52:15] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[52:15] Speaker 1: Yeah, the UK women have their freedom restricted.
[52:20] Speaker 3: I just don't think they should have as much freedom
[52:21] Speaker 3: as they have.
[52:25] Speaker 1: Because do you get insecure when women have power? Does
[52:28] Speaker 1: your little angish like pucker up a little bit?
[52:34] Speaker 9: Okay, all right, fine, I mean you're a funny guy,
[52:40] Speaker 9: bro like, yeah, whatever, you know. I thought we were
[52:44] Speaker 9: going to have an interesting conversation, but I mean you're
[52:47] Speaker 9: acting like a child.
[52:48] Speaker 1: Interesting for me, it's interesting for the audience too. They're
[52:52] Speaker 1: gonna love watching this on replay.
[52:57] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, is that is that what you do? Like?
[52:58] Speaker 3: Is that what makes you feel like a big man?
[53:00] Speaker 3: Clip people on.
[53:00] Speaker 9: TikTok It does a piece of ship that live like I.
[53:07] Speaker 1: Love clipping guys up here that they are tough by
[53:10] Speaker 1: subjecting women to cruelty?
[53:11] Speaker 9: Yeah, how how would you determine?
[53:14] Speaker 1: Do you like to would you like to have.
[53:17] Speaker 3: Personally? Would you personal list?
[53:19] Speaker 1: But you show up in my state question, I'm more
[53:22] Speaker 1: than happy to to question it in person.
[53:24] Speaker 3: Do you think great?
[53:25] Speaker 12: Do you think that hold on here?
[53:29] Speaker 1: It comes to violence?
[53:30] Speaker 3: Here comes?
[53:32] Speaker 1: You just want to state it?
[53:34] Speaker 3: Always invited me to.
[53:35] Speaker 1: Your always comes to violence with these people.
[53:37] Speaker 3: Won't be a bitch.
[53:38] Speaker 9: You just invited here comes not just invite me.
[53:42] Speaker 8: To your state.
[53:43] Speaker 1: You're welcome anytime you.
[53:44] Speaker 9: Called me a piece of ship and invited you to
[53:47] Speaker 9: your state, and then you're gonna call me violent, well
[53:50] Speaker 9: stick to that then all right, would come to your state?
[53:55] Speaker 1: Come on through.
[53:56] Speaker 3: I'm being serious, cann Can I set this up with you?
[53:59] Speaker 4: You can come through to my state anytime.
[54:01] Speaker 1: You can d M me after I'll tell you. I'll
[54:04] Speaker 1: tell you exactly what state I am in, and we
[54:06] Speaker 1: can set up a place for you and come get arrested.
[54:10] Speaker 9: Also, you're gonna call the police up.
[54:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, will absolutely lock you up, and then I'll show
[54:14] Speaker 1: them this recording that's fine.
[54:16] Speaker 9: We can arrange uh in my country, my country, we
[54:20] Speaker 9: don't put up with.
[54:20] Speaker 1: That in my country. In my country, when when somebody you.
[54:25] Speaker 9: Just you just challenged me and then said you're gonna cool.
[54:28] Speaker 1: The In my country, when somebody burns the Quran and
[54:31] Speaker 1: then they get assaulted, we arrest the person that gets assaulted,
[54:34] Speaker 1: not the person who burned the Koran. So you're welcome
[54:37] Speaker 1: to bring your violence over here. We'll lock you up
[54:39] Speaker 1: real fucking fast. You gotta un meet yourself. I knew
[54:54] Speaker 1: it was gonna crash out. I've seen him crash out
[54:56] Speaker 1: on other live streams before. Yeah, just waiting to see me.
[55:01] Speaker 2: He's perfectly fulling. He's perfectly fulling with slavery. He soon
[55:05] Speaker 2: before that he wishes to have been a Muslim. Moyar
[55:07] Speaker 2: at the things you can country slaves.
[55:10] Speaker 4: That's sick.
[55:11] Speaker 1: What a sicko. So he wants to he wants to
[55:14] Speaker 1: reduce the freedom of women. He wants to bring back slavery.
[55:18] Speaker 1: What a piece of ship? What a piece of ship?
[55:23] Speaker 5: All right?
[55:23] Speaker 1: Well, listen, being that Allah hasn't given you the power
[55:26] Speaker 1: to unmute yourself. I actually didn't live when I Oh,
[55:30] Speaker 1: there you go.
[55:30] Speaker 4: He figured it out.
[55:31] Speaker 3: I didn't realize.
[55:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, you think slavery is okay.
[55:35] Speaker 9: In in the Islamic context? Yes, not not all forms
[55:37] Speaker 9: of slavery.
[55:38] Speaker 1: Now cool, what forms of slavery are good?
[55:43] Speaker 9: So what is dictated by Islam I think is okay?
[55:48] Speaker 9: Like people, you go to war with defensive and offensive
[55:51] Speaker 9: your enemies, you can subject them to slavery. I think
[55:55] Speaker 9: that that's uh yeah, that's a good move.
[55:57] Speaker 1: Okay. So like for example, you're you're, you know, you're
[56:00] Speaker 1: in the UK somewhere. Imagine for a second that I
[56:04] Speaker 1: don't know, Greenland and UK get into a scuffle. It
[56:07] Speaker 1: would be okay for you know, the Muslims in the
[56:10] Speaker 1: UK to go over to Greenland and like take the
[56:13] Speaker 1: women and children as slaves.
[56:16] Speaker 9: No, it depends why. Like if we were the aggressors,
[56:19] Speaker 9: if England, then no, that wouldn't be right, okay if
[56:24] Speaker 9: we if we were the aggressives and we lost, and
[56:26] Speaker 9: then that.
[56:27] Speaker 11: Would be on us a friend, you said offensive and
[56:30] Speaker 11: defensive literally again, offensive war can be justified. Like I said,
[56:35] Speaker 11: it depends why.
[56:37] Speaker 2: Let's say, for example, that the UK becomes Muslim and
[56:39] Speaker 2: they would to expland the Islamic elephate to Iceland, and
[56:43] Speaker 2: they go when it took Iceland unprovoked, can they take sleeps.
[56:45] Speaker 9: From Iceland unprovoked?
[56:48] Speaker 3: No? I don't believe so.
[56:49] Speaker 2: Unprovoked. No, if you're doing you hurt, you're taking a land,
[56:53] Speaker 2: you're taking a land offensively hurt. So you're explaining the
[56:56] Speaker 2: land to be stem That is a justified reason for
[56:58] Speaker 2: then you go and take over Iceland. They were taking
[57:00] Speaker 2: you first.
[57:02] Speaker 3: No, no, they can't. There can't be aggression for no reason.
[57:05] Speaker 2: It has to be just the expansion, the expansion of
[57:07] Speaker 2: the Muslim Empire.
[57:08] Speaker 3: No, that's not correct.
[57:09] Speaker 9: Now you can't.
[57:10] Speaker 5: You can't.
[57:11] Speaker 3: You can islamically invade whoever you want to invade.
[57:15] Speaker 2: Offensively doesn't exist.
[57:17] Speaker 9: No, So offensive she had is when you already have
[57:20] Speaker 9: an enemy and you're you're you're conducting like military strategy
[57:25] Speaker 9: with with an existing enemy.
[57:27] Speaker 2: So yeah, it took me the expension of Egypt. Who
[57:33] Speaker 2: was Egypt the enemy?
[57:33] Speaker 6: Go ahead?
[57:35] Speaker 9: Yeah, because they were allied with the Byzantine Roman Empire
[57:37] Speaker 9: and various Arab Christian requires of it that they were
[57:41] Speaker 9: at war with at the time. No, I'm answering you.
[57:45] Speaker 9: I just I'm just give me an opportunity to answer.
[57:48] Speaker 9: So so Egypt was in alliance with various Christian tribes
[57:54] Speaker 9: and the Byzantine Roman Empire that were aggressives towards Muslims.
[57:58] Speaker 9: So yeah, they were a potent to target. Like I'm sure,
[58:03] Speaker 9: I don't know if you know about the tribe of Rassan,
[58:05] Speaker 9: of a large Arab Christian tribe that actually went on
[58:09] Speaker 9: the offensive at the time of So it wasn't just
[58:13] Speaker 9: for nothing like these were.
[58:15] Speaker 2: The specifically going into them that it's not Muslim.
[58:19] Speaker 9: You know, you did say that, you said, for nothing
[58:22] Speaker 9: more than just expanding the Muslim empire. We're not allowed
[58:24] Speaker 9: to that is a reason.
[58:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a reason.
[58:29] Speaker 6: Well, no, it's not.
[58:30] Speaker 9: It is not that we're not allowed Tom, we're not
[58:35] Speaker 9: allowed to attack people.
[58:40] Speaker 4: I was married, Yes, Oh you're not.
[58:43] Speaker 1: I did it end because of domestic violence?
[58:47] Speaker 8: No?
[58:47] Speaker 3: No, No, what kind of a question is that.
[58:50] Speaker 1: I'm just trying to figure out your your situation. You
[58:52] Speaker 1: sound like that would be in the deed.
[58:56] Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm really interested that if you're really
[58:58] Speaker 9: up for this. But I'm you said you're going to
[59:00] Speaker 9: call the police. I don't know why you would offer
[59:02] Speaker 9: someone out and then call the police, But I'll DM
[59:05] Speaker 9: you and if you're, if you truly are, I doubt
[59:08] Speaker 9: that you are.
[59:09] Speaker 1: Though I'd love for you to spend two thousand dollars
[59:13] Speaker 1: to fly to my country just to get arrested. I'd
[59:16] Speaker 1: love to see it. I'll film the whole thing.
[59:18] Speaker 9: So why would you challenge me? I don't get it
[59:21] Speaker 9: just to say you'd call the police on me?
[59:23] Speaker 1: Yep, because I'm not a violence like you are.
[59:27] Speaker 9: No, But you insulted be and then invited me to
[59:30] Speaker 9: your state, And then you're the You're the You're the aggressor.
[59:33] Speaker 3: I'm not.
[59:35] Speaker 8: You are?
[59:35] Speaker 3: You are?
[59:36] Speaker 1: You're the one saying that I wouldn't I wouldn't be
[59:39] Speaker 1: acting like this in your presence or some nonsense like that.
[59:42] Speaker 4: That's why I said it.
[59:43] Speaker 1: You're the one I was.
[59:44] Speaker 3: You're the one by your insults.
[59:47] Speaker 5: You're the one I did say that.
[59:49] Speaker 1: You're the one that was acting tough, which is why
[59:51] Speaker 1: I responded to you to way that I did. So
[59:55] Speaker 1: you're not tough. Like just thinking that you're tough because
[59:59] Speaker 1: you can subjugate when and doesn't make you tough. That's
[1:00:02] Speaker 1: actually makes you the the weakest man on the old poem.
[1:00:04] Speaker 1: But listen, tough guy, we've got some people waiting to uh,
[1:00:08] Speaker 1: waiting to get in on the YouTube cue. So I'm
[1:00:11] Speaker 1: going to bring in someone that's not a piece of shit. Okay,
[1:00:14] Speaker 1: have a good one, and you believe these people.
[1:00:22] Speaker 2: The thing is, he's very very toned down. If I
[1:00:25] Speaker 2: do not know if you've seen him before, but he's
[1:00:26] Speaker 2: very toned down.
[1:00:27] Speaker 3: Here.
[1:00:27] Speaker 2: I have good way, but I want you to just
[1:00:33] Speaker 2: check something quickly for like your like, for your future conversations.
[1:00:36] Speaker 2: Could you open up a chapter four versus wife?
[1:00:39] Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, give me a second, okay, all right, Kuran
[1:00:44] Speaker 13: four or five, yes, yep, says uh.
[1:00:51] Speaker 1: Do not entrust the incapable among your dependents with your wealth,
[1:00:55] Speaker 1: which Allah has made a means of support for you,
[1:00:59] Speaker 1: but feeding clothes them from it and speak to them kindly.
[1:01:01] Speaker 1: I guess that's probably not you're looking for.
[1:01:05] Speaker 3: It is the part.
[1:01:06] Speaker 2: Yes, it's being capable. Being capablesentually a mistranslation of what
[1:01:10] Speaker 2: is the fools? And can you open up with the
[1:01:13] Speaker 2: seat of it and see who the fools are so far?
[1:01:17] Speaker 3: Okay?
[1:01:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, so the foolish and it's in the tough sear
[1:01:21] Speaker 1: let's see, Oh, the property of the wise. I bet
[1:01:24] Speaker 1: it's going to be about women, isn't it?
[1:01:28] Speaker 2: Yes, the unwise your property referring to women to children.
[1:01:32] Speaker 1: Do not give unto the unwise. Your property refers to
[1:01:35] Speaker 1: children and women. Similar was also said by Ibbin Masud
[1:01:40] Speaker 1: al Hakam bin Aania. I can't say that one, are you?
[1:01:45] Speaker 1: I ooh, yeah, you know, I'm gonna forget that one.
[1:01:48] Speaker 1: Women and boys so on and so forth. So yeah,
[1:01:51] Speaker 1: I mean, I mean we we already know this about
[1:01:55] Speaker 1: about Islam. The subjugation of women is like one O one,
[1:01:58] Speaker 1: isn't it.
[1:02:00] Speaker 3: Yep?
[1:02:01] Speaker 2: And I'm gonna get Let you get to your next guest.
[1:02:05] Speaker 1: The comments thanks so much, Ev, great to have you, buddy. Okay,
[1:02:09] Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. We're gonna move
[1:02:11] Speaker 1: on to the next guest. My conscience says, oh sorry,
[1:02:14] Speaker 1: we got that one. Doctor Joe says, Ray is so kind,
[1:02:17] Speaker 1: play and open. That makes getting that makes getting mad
[1:02:20] Speaker 1: at his disingenuous heartbreaking.
[1:02:22] Speaker 8: I know.
[1:02:22] Speaker 1: I agree with you, doctor Joe. Thank you for the
[1:02:24] Speaker 1: super chat. It is hard talking to Ray because I
[1:02:26] Speaker 1: really like him and I want him to abandon his
[1:02:30] Speaker 1: foolish religion and open his mind to common sense. But
[1:02:35] Speaker 1: it is a process. It takes a while to get
[1:02:37] Speaker 1: there and Noah's lying again, says the plane went down
[1:02:40] Speaker 1: in Litit's so you you you gotta be shitting me.
[1:02:44] Speaker 1: There's a town called Litit's okay, the plane that went
[1:02:49] Speaker 1: down in Latite, Pa and wrecked into into a nursing home.
[1:02:54] Speaker 1: My colleagues responded to, holy shit, so much is happening today.
[1:03:00] Speaker 1: That's horrific. That's horrific, and holy shit. Well, I appreciate
[1:03:08] Speaker 1: the update, and now we all know there's a city
[1:03:10] Speaker 1: in PA called Tits Marty, thank you so much for
[1:03:16] Speaker 1: the six hours of protest, says, How do you handle
[1:03:18] Speaker 1: the critique that Matthew twenty four is referring to some
[1:03:20] Speaker 1: different generation than that of the Apostles? Pretty easy. I
[1:03:24] Speaker 1: would just walk them through the language. A future generation
[1:03:30] Speaker 1: would be that generation, not this generation. We know what
[1:03:33] Speaker 1: this and that are. This is near, that is far.
[1:03:37] Speaker 1: That being said, it's also wouldn't make sense if it's
[1:03:40] Speaker 1: about a future generation, because if it's about a future generation,
[1:03:44] Speaker 1: then the statement is nonsensical. Obviously, if it's about a
[1:03:49] Speaker 1: future generation, the generation are the generation witnessing it. Obviously
[1:03:54] Speaker 1: they're going to be alive. You can't witness it if
[1:03:56] Speaker 1: you're not alive, So saying that the future generations will
[1:04:01] Speaker 1: be alive that witness it is a nonsensical statement. It
[1:04:04] Speaker 1: has no meaning whatsoever. It's a completely useless statement. The
[1:04:09] Speaker 1: statement only makes sense if Jesus is using it as
[1:04:12] Speaker 1: a timeline, which he does in Matthew sixteen and in
[1:04:15] Speaker 1: Matthew ten twenty three. So that's how I deal with that.
[1:04:18] Speaker 1: My conscious, thank you so much for the super chest says,
[1:04:22] Speaker 1: I'm a w on planes. Oh with you. I'm with
[1:04:25] Speaker 1: you on planes taking a trip across the country to
[1:04:28] Speaker 1: say goodbye to my mom. I'm driving.
[1:04:30] Speaker 4: I would too.
[1:04:30] Speaker 1: Yeah, my girlfriend tried to convince me to fly, but
[1:04:33] Speaker 1: you can't get me on a plane when it's safe.
[1:04:36] Speaker 4: Listen.
[1:04:36] Speaker 1: I agree with you conscious wholeheartedly. I hate playing.
[1:04:39] Speaker 14: I know.
[1:04:40] Speaker 1: Statistically, like there's all these statistics about you know, getting
[1:04:43] Speaker 1: in car accidents and whatnot, but thosetics don't take into
[1:04:47] Speaker 1: account like if you're actually a really good driver, or
[1:04:50] Speaker 1: if you don't live in a megacity, Like if you
[1:04:52] Speaker 1: live in rural America and you're a good driver, the
[1:04:56] Speaker 1: likelihood that you're going to be into a dangerous car
[1:04:59] Speaker 1: accident is pretty damn low. So I get I understand statistics,
[1:05:03] Speaker 1: but you know, blanket statistics don't always work for everybody.
[1:05:07] Speaker 6: But I agree with you.
[1:05:07] Speaker 1: I if your plane crashes, guess what the odds of
[1:05:10] Speaker 1: you surviving is zero. You're not gonna survive a plane crash.
[1:05:14] Speaker 1: If you get into a car accident, the odds of
[1:05:16] Speaker 1: you surviving a car accident is actually pretty good. Rob
[1:05:21] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the super test, says God
[1:05:23] Speaker 1: is the supreme being who created Quakerism. Yeah, could you
[1:05:26] Speaker 1: imagine God like, I'm gonna make people shake really hard.
[1:05:30] Speaker 1: That's my superpower. They're gonna shake, and they're gonna do
[1:05:33] Speaker 1: it all at once. Just make sure the floorboards are
[1:05:36] Speaker 1: buttoned down. Good, Randy, thank you for gifting out five
[1:05:39] Speaker 1: Deconstruction Zone memberships. I really appreciate that. Big w Randy
[1:05:43] Speaker 1: for your generosity. And Ken said, there's an autonomous robot
[1:05:47] Speaker 1: behind you.
[1:05:48] Speaker 8: Wait.
[1:05:48] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I know. I made them talk. Isn't it fun?
[1:05:52] Speaker 1: There is a robot. I love robots, by the way,
[1:05:54] Speaker 1: and thanks for being here, Ken, I appreciate that. And Evan,
[1:05:56] Speaker 1: good to see you tonight, says How do believers ignore
[1:05:59] Speaker 1: the correlation between geographical origin and religion? Shouldn't the one
[1:06:04] Speaker 1: religion that's true be everywhere equally. So this is actually
[1:06:07] Speaker 1: a really good point because I thought about this even
[1:06:10] Speaker 1: as a teenager. Is people are so entrenched in their
[1:06:14] Speaker 1: religion based on where they grew up. Is the highest
[1:06:17] Speaker 1: predictor of your religion is where you grow up. If
[1:06:20] Speaker 1: God was real and he was revealing himself to humanity,
[1:06:24] Speaker 1: it would make more sense if people all around the
[1:06:27] Speaker 1: world believed in the same God. That's what would make
[1:06:29] Speaker 1: the most sense. I wouldn't find that every culture had
[1:06:32] Speaker 1: their own God. So you're right, Evan, that is the
[1:06:35] Speaker 1: most logical thing. I agree with you. And Scott Duff.
[1:06:38] Speaker 1: Thank you for the six sixty six over Venmo for
[1:06:41] Speaker 1: words don't mean what words mean. They never do, they
[1:06:45] Speaker 1: never do. And wild Willie texts love the name. Thank
[1:06:51] Speaker 1: you so much for the ten that our superchest says.
[1:06:52] Speaker 1: Bro's literally talking on an advanced computer. And women were
[1:06:57] Speaker 1: the early developers of the whole field of computer science
[1:07:00] Speaker 1: and especially software before they were pushed out Wikipedia. Women
[1:07:04] Speaker 1: in computing. Yeah, women, We have a lot to thank
[1:07:07] Speaker 1: women for in the world of computing. It's a lot.
[1:07:10] Speaker 1: But listen, I don't think that guy spent a whole
[1:07:14] Speaker 1: lot of time studying history, so I mean, I'm I'm
[1:07:17] Speaker 1: not going to expect him to know any of that.
[1:07:20] Speaker 1: But it's crazy to me that women can literally program
[1:07:24] Speaker 1: software for NASA to get us to the moon, but
[1:07:27] Speaker 1: he thinks that they shouldn't drive cars. It's insane the
[1:07:31] Speaker 1: level of cognitive dissonancies people have. Anime says, can't wait
[1:07:35] Speaker 1: to share the YouTube video later. I know, trust me,
[1:07:37] Speaker 1: we're clipping that Muslim guy and Randy sending out ten
[1:07:40] Speaker 1: Deconstruction Zone memberships. Big w Randy, I appreciate that. And
[1:07:45] Speaker 1: Evan says, Bro says women shouldn't drive immediately crashes. You
[1:07:51] Speaker 1: know what, I guarantee he's been in a car accident
[1:07:53] Speaker 1: that he's caused. And Aposta, thank you for joining the
[1:07:57] Speaker 1: Crack and Crew Elite. You got access to the cheat
[1:07:59] Speaker 1: sheet now. And Ethane, thank you for subscribing on TikTok.
[1:08:03] Speaker 1: I saw that. And Joe says, you can marry a child,
[1:08:06] Speaker 1: but you can't act like one. Well that's true. I mean,
[1:08:11] Speaker 1: as we've seen with most Muslim callers on this live stream,
[1:08:14] Speaker 1: they're going to act like children too. Tyler Mercy, he says,
[1:08:17] Speaker 1: what a clown this guest is violence and misogyny in spades,
[1:08:21] Speaker 1: and they want us to believe this is the religion
[1:08:23] Speaker 1: of peacel. What a joke. I agree. Every time I
[1:08:27] Speaker 1: hear somebody in Islam saying it's a religion of peace,
[1:08:29] Speaker 1: I laugh myself into literal stitches. It's crazy that they'll
[1:08:34] Speaker 1: say that, they'll let those words come out of their mouth.
[1:08:37] Speaker 1: Noah Lion again, thank you so much for the superchat,
[1:08:39] Speaker 1: says I'm sure he would never accept me as his PCP.
[1:08:44] Speaker 1: I'm sure as a gal I shouldn't have the freedom
[1:08:47] Speaker 1: to go to school. I hope that he never gets sick.
[1:08:49] Speaker 1: The UK has a serious deficit of GPS, I agree.
[1:08:53] Speaker 1: And a PCP for those not in America's primary care
[1:08:56] Speaker 1: practitioner meaning your main form of medical care. Yeah, I
[1:09:00] Speaker 1: would take you as a PCP every day of the week, though, No,
[1:09:03] Speaker 1: I really appreciate that. And you're right. Could you imagine,
[1:09:06] Speaker 1: like I bet this guy argues with women in the
[1:09:09] Speaker 1: professional world just because he believes all women are stupid
[1:09:13] Speaker 1: and incapable and joyful or Apo the Apostle, thank you
[1:09:17] Speaker 1: for the five dollars over cash app Big w Apo.
[1:09:20] Speaker 1: Good to see your friend and a dub joining the
[1:09:23] Speaker 1: Crack and Crew, Elite, big W for joining the Elite,
[1:09:26] Speaker 1: and Randy again with the super chat. Big W thank
[1:09:28] Speaker 1: you so much, says deconstruction is wonderful, makes you free.
[1:09:31] Speaker 1: You're right. You know everyone likes to say the truth
[1:09:33] Speaker 1: will set you free. I think the truth will set
[1:09:36] Speaker 1: you free from religion, and that's why we're doing these
[1:09:39] Speaker 1: live streams. Stephen says, thank you for exposing Islam for
[1:09:42] Speaker 1: its cruelty.
[1:09:43] Speaker 8: I do.
[1:09:44] Speaker 1: I will never get surprised that, like people will hear
[1:09:48] Speaker 1: me bashing Christianity, and then when I say things about Islam,
[1:09:52] Speaker 1: they're like, oh, you can't say that. The fuck I
[1:09:53] Speaker 1: can't listen. If you like me bashing Christianity, then guess what.
[1:09:57] Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be holding back on any other religion.
[1:10:00] Speaker 1: And like, Christianity is not the whipping boy of atheists.
[1:10:04] Speaker 1: If you have a dangerous religion, we're gonna call it out.
[1:10:07] Speaker 1: I don't care what that religion is. And Jake how says,
[1:10:10] Speaker 1: how do I find M's channel? Good question? MS is
[1:10:12] Speaker 1: on TikTok. He's not on YouTube as far as I know,
[1:10:16] Speaker 1: but find him on TikTok. He's also in the discord,
[1:10:19] Speaker 1: joined the deconstruction Junction discord in the link tree in
[1:10:21] Speaker 1: my profile and you'll have a be able to connect
[1:10:24] Speaker 1: with him over there and Diver, thank you for the
[1:10:27] Speaker 1: supertest says. I just wanted to say, may I love
[1:10:29] Speaker 1: watching your debates, especially with Ian and Blitz, but I
[1:10:32] Speaker 1: started deconstructing two years Okay, I think you mean to
[1:10:36] Speaker 1: go and watching your lives is definitely helping me to
[1:10:38] Speaker 1: navigate it. Praise that well, Diver, thank you so much
[1:10:41] Speaker 1: for filling me in. I'm glad you're deconstructing. I know
[1:10:44] Speaker 1: it's difficult, and that is the reason why I do
[1:10:47] Speaker 1: these live streams. I want to be helpful to the
[1:10:49] Speaker 1: people that are deconstructing.
[1:10:50] Speaker 5: I really do.
[1:10:52] Speaker 1: I'm trying to get the A live Nihilist in from
[1:10:56] Speaker 1: the queue, but I don't see them on the screen.
[1:10:58] Speaker 1: A live nihilist, can you hear me? I don't know
[1:11:02] Speaker 1: if they're actually in the queue anymore. They'll come back though,
[1:11:07] Speaker 1: if they you know, if they if they're actually here,
[1:11:10] Speaker 1: we'll grab the next one.
[1:11:11] Speaker 4: We'll grab the next one.
[1:11:13] Speaker 1: Maddy, can you put some headphones in?
[1:11:15] Speaker 8: Put some headphones in?
[1:11:18] Speaker 5: Uh sorry, I don't have headphones.
[1:11:19] Speaker 8: I'm just gonna speak well.
[1:11:22] Speaker 1: It's gonna it's gonna it's gonna it's gonna echo really
[1:11:25] Speaker 1: bad if you don't plug in headphones or if you
[1:11:28] Speaker 1: don't turn your speakerphone way down, because my voice is
[1:11:31] Speaker 1: gonna come out of your speakers and feed right back
[1:11:33] Speaker 1: into your microphone.
[1:11:38] Speaker 10: You know what I mean, you're logging out.
[1:11:45] Speaker 1: I think you're liking out. I think you're liking out.
[1:11:50] Speaker 4: All right, sir, Okay, I don't.
[1:11:52] Speaker 1: Think he was listening. Okay, Well, keep moving through the
[1:11:56] Speaker 1: We'll keep moving through the guess you guys, if you're
[1:11:58] Speaker 1: watching on TikTok, do you know how to join? All
[1:12:00] Speaker 1: he's got to do is hit that guest request button.
[1:12:03] Speaker 1: And then if you're watching on YouTube, what's you gotta
[1:12:06] Speaker 1: do is click the link in the description of the
[1:12:09] Speaker 1: video or go to the link in the description which
[1:12:12] Speaker 1: is tiny u r L dot com forward slash d
[1:12:17] Speaker 1: z guest and we'll get you, uh into the into
[1:12:21] Speaker 1: the conversation. So it looks like up next is so,
[1:12:25] Speaker 1: dear Gupta, Did I say that right?
[1:12:30] Speaker 6: Yes? You did?
[1:12:31] Speaker 3: How you doing so?
[1:12:32] Speaker 5: Dear? Are you? Are you?
[1:12:34] Speaker 1: Do you have any headphones?
[1:12:35] Speaker 3: Do you have any headphones?
[1:12:36] Speaker 1: Yes, that's the that's the problem.
[1:12:38] Speaker 3: You can move on to the next person. Let me
[1:12:39] Speaker 3: get some headphones.
[1:12:40] Speaker 1: Okay, okay, all right, we'll grab the We'll grab the
[1:12:46] Speaker 1: next guest. A live nihilist came back. We'll see if
[1:12:49] Speaker 1: they fixed their Yeah, hey, how you doing a live nihilist?
[1:12:55] Speaker 1: Do you have any headphones?
[1:12:56] Speaker 8: Yeah? I'm using her phone right now.
[1:13:00] Speaker 1: Oh, you're using it phones right now. You're using a
[1:13:02] Speaker 1: fond right now.
[1:13:03] Speaker 8: Yeah.
[1:13:03] Speaker 1: It's weird because it's weird because it's let's see you
[1:13:07] Speaker 1: give me a second.
[1:13:08] Speaker 4: All see if that fixes it?
[1:13:17] Speaker 3: That fixes it.
[1:13:17] Speaker 1: Nope, doesn't fix it. Something wrong with your set up,
[1:13:20] Speaker 1: my man? Is something wrong with your setup?
[1:13:21] Speaker 8: Man? Just as just as.
[1:13:28] Speaker 1: Better are you outside by the road, the road. It's
[1:13:33] Speaker 1: gonna keep happening.
[1:13:35] Speaker 8: It's gonna keep happening, all right.
[1:13:38] Speaker 1: Well, maybe maybe get a different set of headphones to
[1:13:43] Speaker 1: come on back. Okay, a different set of headphones to
[1:13:45] Speaker 1: come on back. Okay, yeah, I have just right, Okay,
[1:13:51] Speaker 1: we'll try this again. We're gonna get it. Space Lord
[1:13:55] Speaker 1: says Shakers are coming back. They're up to two members.
[1:13:59] Speaker 1: There's there's probably some Quakers actually around. We just don't
[1:14:03] Speaker 1: hear about them, you know what I mean? The Quakers
[1:14:05] Speaker 1: were a pretty large denomination for a while. Actually, Sphinx,
[1:14:09] Speaker 1: thank you for the hat. I appreciate that, like the
[1:14:11] Speaker 1: Quakers at one point made up a large portion of
[1:14:16] Speaker 1: the US Christian groups. All right, Sudor can you hear me?
[1:14:20] Speaker 8: Or are we?
[1:14:21] Speaker 1: Are we back?
[1:14:29] Speaker 5: Hello?
[1:14:33] Speaker 3: Not so much?
[1:14:36] Speaker 1: Okay, well my next one, try to get Mahdi. How
[1:14:41] Speaker 1: you doing money?
[1:14:45] Speaker 8: Yeah?
[1:14:45] Speaker 5: Hello?
[1:14:46] Speaker 8: Yeah?
[1:14:46] Speaker 1: How are you doing? Are you least eighteen?
[1:14:50] Speaker 4: You sound twelve?
[1:14:51] Speaker 5: How are you twelve?
[1:14:52] Speaker 8: How old are you twelve?
[1:14:55] Speaker 1: That's why I thought, all right, you gotta be eighteen. Okay,
[1:14:56] Speaker 1: all right, you gotta be eighteen?
[1:14:57] Speaker 5: Okay, all right, no.
[1:15:00] Speaker 1: Way, that's like that is a fetus, Alex, thank you
[1:15:07] Speaker 1: for the superjest.
[1:15:07] Speaker 3: It says.
[1:15:08] Speaker 1: One great argument against Islam is how can the prophet
[1:15:10] Speaker 1: Abraham build the Kaaba in Mecca if Mecca didn't exist
[1:15:14] Speaker 1: at the time. Yeah, so basically it's anachronistic, is what
[1:15:17] Speaker 1: you're saying. That's actually a really good point. I don't
[1:15:19] Speaker 1: know much of the lore a live nihilist. You're it's
[1:15:25] Speaker 1: still echoing. I don't know what's going on with your equipment.
[1:15:30] Speaker 1: It's time quick run, all right, download TikTok i don't
[1:15:35] Speaker 1: know what's wrong with your equipment.
[1:15:37] Speaker 5: We had.
[1:15:38] Speaker 1: We didn't have any audio problems really this morning on
[1:15:40] Speaker 1: the Unapologetic live stream with the with the echoing whatnot.
[1:15:44] Speaker 1: But we got a lot of echo right now with
[1:15:46] Speaker 1: these guests coming in. All right, guys, uh we're waiting
[1:15:50] Speaker 1: for uh Sudir to get his audio. Our TikTok ques
[1:15:55] Speaker 1: actually open right now. We don't have anyone in the
[1:15:57] Speaker 1: TikTok q, which is unusual. So if you're watching on
[1:16:01] Speaker 1: TikTok and you're saying, listen, I think God is not
[1:16:03] Speaker 1: a badger, and I think God is very real, jump
[1:16:06] Speaker 1: into the guest box and we can talk about it.
[1:16:09] Speaker 1: And Zak Cool says, finally caught alive. Haill Dog and
[1:16:13] Speaker 1: Haill Satan. Yes, Hail Dog and h'll Satan and Haile
[1:16:17] Speaker 1: Keanu reeves awesome profile pic by the way, and Abraham
[1:16:22] Speaker 1: the chow Dian, I love that name every time I
[1:16:24] Speaker 1: hear it. Thank you for the super Jest says worst
[1:16:26] Speaker 1: part of religion. Convince followers they have access to ultimate good,
[1:16:31] Speaker 1: then command violence and inequality. At least the dissonance is comical.
[1:16:35] Speaker 1: You're not wrong there, and that is the goal is
[1:16:39] Speaker 1: to to normalize like horrific behaviors. But I do an ik.
[1:16:47] Speaker 10: Well, so I just came on he to ask, so,
[1:16:50] Speaker 10: what do you believe happened? How do you think everything
[1:16:52] Speaker 10: was created?
[1:16:55] Speaker 1: I don't think it was created. I think it always
[1:16:57] Speaker 1: existed exist.
[1:17:00] Speaker 6: So you think that Earth always existed?
[1:17:05] Speaker 1: Mm hmm, No, the universe always existed. Earth is only
[1:17:09] Speaker 1: about four billion years old.
[1:17:13] Speaker 6: So how did how does it? How does Earth exist?
[1:17:18] Speaker 1: It exists right now, we're on it.
[1:17:21] Speaker 6: Yeah, but like how how how was it created?
[1:17:26] Speaker 1: Mostly?
[1:17:26] Speaker 10: If it almost likely, it has to be created, has
[1:17:30] Speaker 10: to have been created.
[1:17:31] Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. I think the Earth was formed,
[1:17:35] Speaker 1: probably through the accretion disk model.
[1:17:39] Speaker 6: What's up?
[1:17:41] Speaker 1: The accretion disc model is essentially, there is a hot,
[1:17:45] Speaker 1: spinning mass and it's it's kind of spitting out particulate
[1:17:51] Speaker 1: as it's going, and because of gravity, it will eventually
[1:17:56] Speaker 1: form into its own hot, dense lump and then you
[1:18:01] Speaker 1: get like planets and other formations from the spinoff.
[1:18:06] Speaker 6: Okay, I just want to know your beliefs.
[1:18:09] Speaker 1: So you're obviously a believer. Ra hah, oh, that's it.
[1:18:16] Speaker 1: He's gone, okay, all right, I don't know what he
[1:18:20] Speaker 1: thought he was up to but okay, well, keep on moving,
[1:18:30] Speaker 1: try to get Musa and.
[1:18:33] Speaker 2: I'm doing good.
[1:18:35] Speaker 1: Mussa. Are you at least eighteen? And what God do
[1:18:38] Speaker 1: you believe in?
[1:18:40] Speaker 2: Yeah? Muslim in eighteen?
[1:18:41] Speaker 1: Yea cool? And what would be the best argument or
[1:18:45] Speaker 1: best evidence for your particular god being real?
[1:18:50] Speaker 2: I'll be the contingency argument.
[1:18:52] Speaker 1: Sure, you want to run through the premises with me.
[1:18:56] Speaker 15: Yeah, everything has a cause, and there has to be
[1:18:58] Speaker 15: independent cause that causes everything. I think it's contingent.
[1:19:02] Speaker 1: I disagree with Chrimas number one.
[1:19:06] Speaker 2: So you don't think that there are contingent things that
[1:19:08] Speaker 2: derive from an independent being or existence.
[1:19:11] Speaker 1: I believe there are contingent things. I don't think that
[1:19:13] Speaker 1: there's an independent being that contingent things rely upon. I
[1:19:18] Speaker 1: think that time existed at all points in the past
[1:19:21] Speaker 1: and the future.
[1:19:23] Speaker 2: Do you move to like the b theory or something
[1:19:25] Speaker 2: like yep?
[1:19:26] Speaker 1: I think all moments of time are equally real, and
[1:19:29] Speaker 1: I think that there's no beginning or ending to time
[1:19:32] Speaker 1: or to the universe.
[1:19:36] Speaker 15: So every okay, so there's always been time, since it's
[1:19:39] Speaker 15: always been existence in every period of time or okay, okay,
[1:19:47] Speaker 15: can you give me like an example of something that
[1:19:48] Speaker 15: is not contingent.
[1:19:50] Speaker 1: Now everything is contingent, That's what I'm saying.
[1:19:55] Speaker 15: So what will be the cause to those things? Because
[1:19:58] Speaker 15: I contingent mean though would depend on something to It's right.
[1:20:00] Speaker 1: It's an infinite chain of causes.
[1:20:04] Speaker 2: Would you by infinite chain of causes?
[1:20:06] Speaker 1: I mean there's no end to the causation chain, there's
[1:20:11] Speaker 1: no start in the end.
[1:20:15] Speaker 15: I think scientifically that's wrong. I think we derived from
[1:20:17] Speaker 15: like a beginning will be the proof that I think
[1:20:22] Speaker 15: that the stuff from the bing Bang and then the Big.
[1:20:24] Speaker 1: Bang, the Big Bang is not the start of all things.
[1:20:28] Speaker 1: That's just the beginning of the expansion that created.
[1:20:31] Speaker 4: Our current observable universe.
[1:20:34] Speaker 1: Like, that's a really weird thing to think that everything
[1:20:36] Speaker 1: that exists now at one point, just like nothing existed.
[1:20:41] Speaker 1: Why would anyone believe that?
[1:20:43] Speaker 2: What would there be poo as something existing before the
[1:20:46] Speaker 2: being banged?
[1:20:46] Speaker 1: I ain't got Yeah, because matter can't be created or destroyed,
[1:20:50] Speaker 1: which means it's always been Yeah, Okay, it was in
[1:20:57] Speaker 1: a different shape obviously before the Big Bang. It didn't
[1:21:00] Speaker 1: look like the way it looks now.
[1:21:04] Speaker 15: Okay, So what would be like You're argument is something
[1:21:06] Speaker 15: that well you could probably teld that everything is detailed
[1:21:09] Speaker 15: and shows a purpose, such as like a computer or
[1:21:14] Speaker 15: us as beings, as in we are not made of Okay,
[1:21:18] Speaker 15: what would be your argument, just like everything is not
[1:21:21] Speaker 15: being chaos?
[1:21:22] Speaker 1: I mean the fine tuning argument.
[1:21:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[1:21:25] Speaker 1: Well, I think everything is chaos. I think when you're
[1:21:27] Speaker 1: talking about fine tuning, you're talking about a teeny tiny
[1:21:30] Speaker 1: little subset of the universe. The vast majority of the
[1:21:34] Speaker 1: universe is pure chaos. And I don't think that the Earth,
[1:21:39] Speaker 1: Like if you if you're saying, well, everything's fine tuned, well,
[1:21:42] Speaker 1: we just look at what we have around us. What
[1:21:44] Speaker 1: we have around us isn't fine tuned. The Earth executes
[1:21:47] Speaker 1: one hundred thousand people a year at random by natural disasters.
[1:21:51] Speaker 1: Like why would somebody fine tune the Earth to randomly
[1:21:54] Speaker 1: kill its inhabitants.
[1:21:57] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's the courence of gossipe what better happens?
[1:22:00] Speaker 1: But then it's not fine tuned. It's the opposite of
[1:22:04] Speaker 1: fine tuning.
[1:22:07] Speaker 2: Would you mean like earquakes like tsunamis.
[1:22:09] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the opposite of fine tuning. You're suggesting that
[1:22:12] Speaker 1: we've got these fine tuned parameters that allow for life,
[1:22:16] Speaker 1: but then we've got all these other parameters that go
[1:22:19] Speaker 1: against that, and so now you've got to make up
[1:22:22] Speaker 1: reasons why it's still fine tuned, which means now you've
[1:22:26] Speaker 1: got to justify why God would fine tune the earth
[1:22:29] Speaker 1: to randomly execute people.
[1:22:32] Speaker 15: I don't necessarire that there are just things that are random,
[1:22:36] Speaker 15: that are unnecessarily such as like I guess snomies. I
[1:22:39] Speaker 15: just don't think that you can derive that. Let's take
[1:22:43] Speaker 15: cussing example, like we are humans, right, we have an
[1:22:46] Speaker 15: anatomy that is detailed, and obviously there have to.
[1:22:49] Speaker 2: Be a designer to you know why. I don't think
[1:22:56] Speaker 2: that nothing.
[1:22:57] Speaker 15: I mean that they wouldn't be like an essential necessary
[1:23:01] Speaker 15: thing that would decide that this thing should be made
[1:23:03] Speaker 15: the way it is.
[1:23:04] Speaker 1: Do you know what an argument from incredulity is?
[1:23:08] Speaker 2: You define that for me?
[1:23:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's when you're you say, listen, I just don't
[1:23:13] Speaker 1: know how it could be this way, Therefore it must
[1:23:15] Speaker 1: be my way. That's an argument from incredulity. Like, just
[1:23:20] Speaker 1: because you can't conceive of it doesn't mean that it's
[1:23:22] Speaker 1: rational to believe that your version of events is correct.
[1:23:27] Speaker 15: I think it's rational to come to conclusion that there
[1:23:29] Speaker 15: is a designer, that is, you know, I think it's
[1:23:33] Speaker 15: rational and logical and you can deduct this. I think
[1:23:35] Speaker 15: that there should be something that designs what we are,
[1:23:40] Speaker 15: because we are detailing the matter that could not be
[1:23:43] Speaker 15: explained without like.
[1:23:45] Speaker 2: Fucking next will causing.
[1:23:48] Speaker 1: In your world view, God designed human beings as such
[1:23:53] Speaker 1: that at certain points in history the death rate for
[1:23:57] Speaker 1: children being born was as high as like thirty percent.
[1:24:03] Speaker 6: Do you think that's a good design.
[1:24:07] Speaker 15: I don't disagree with the baby's dying in their birth.
[1:24:11] Speaker 15: I don't think it's according to god'swel that happens.
[1:24:15] Speaker 1: But what did God design the human body?
[1:24:19] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[1:24:20] Speaker 1: Sure, then he's responsible for the inadequacy of the human
[1:24:23] Speaker 1: body then, and he's also responsible for the high number
[1:24:27] Speaker 1: of women that die while giving birth.
[1:24:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, everything goes back to godswel Yeah, I agree.
[1:24:34] Speaker 2: I don't right, So do you think that so.
[1:24:37] Speaker 1: Like in my worldview, this is very consistent. My worldview
[1:24:40] Speaker 1: would explain this just because we're a product of chance
[1:24:43] Speaker 1: and evolution. In your worldview, like, you have to now
[1:24:47] Speaker 1: justify why God would design such a nightmare.
[1:24:52] Speaker 15: Baby's dying in birth and women, Well, I just think
[1:24:58] Speaker 15: that depends on what like, I guess I'll say it
[1:25:03] Speaker 15: just to be honest with jump stuck on them, Bensted.
[1:25:09] Speaker 1: You I know it's a tough one. Don't worry. It's
[1:25:11] Speaker 1: stun for me when I was a Christian.
[1:25:14] Speaker 15: Yeah, I just don't think it makes God e moral
[1:25:17] Speaker 15: like necessary, like illogical for God to just allow babies
[1:25:22] Speaker 15: to die like with all being born.
[1:25:24] Speaker 1: I don't know, right, And it's so logical that even
[1:25:27] Speaker 1: when the baby survives, sometimes the mother dies and now
[1:25:30] Speaker 1: there's no one to take care of the baby unless
[1:25:32] Speaker 1: they've got like a really solid family structure.
[1:25:37] Speaker 15: I think God would leave him, leave the baby in
[1:25:41] Speaker 15: care so that it'll be like an adoption system. I
[1:25:43] Speaker 15: just think if God wanted to take this so early,
[1:25:45] Speaker 15: then it's just it should have been taken early, just
[1:25:48] Speaker 15: the way it's just the way God has decreted everything,
[1:25:50] Speaker 15: to be.
[1:25:52] Speaker 2: Sure, if that makes sense.
[1:25:53] Speaker 1: Do you think that women should be able to drive?
[1:25:58] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they should have the right to drive.
[1:26:00] Speaker 2: That's not an issue.
[1:26:01] Speaker 1: Do you think that men should be allowed to marry
[1:26:03] Speaker 1: nine year olds?
[1:26:06] Speaker 3: Ye?
[1:26:07] Speaker 2: Well historically.
[1:26:10] Speaker 15: Look, look I'm not gonna like I'm not gonna like
[1:26:13] Speaker 15: pretend if like I could go condone it, but historically
[1:26:16] Speaker 15: you can deduce that there were early marriages.
[1:26:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, that is some point, was okay? At some points?
[1:26:23] Speaker 5: Is it?
[1:26:23] Speaker 15: Hello, it'd be subjective to the woman if she's mentally
[1:26:29] Speaker 15: or physically ready.
[1:26:31] Speaker 1: Just zero siven way yeah, git me a second.
[1:26:36] Speaker 2: All right, bring up all my computer on me. That's
[1:26:40] Speaker 2: doing he's gonna put on the screen.
[1:26:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got Bacari five zero seven nine here on marriage.
[1:26:46] Speaker 1: I put it on the screen, says, while we are
[1:26:51] Speaker 1: returning from Gazwah meaning holy battle with the Prophet, I
[1:26:56] Speaker 1: started driving my camel fast, and it was a lazy camel.
[1:27:00] Speaker 1: A writer came behind me and pricked my camel with
[1:27:03] Speaker 1: a spear he had with him, and then my camel
[1:27:06] Speaker 1: started running as fast as the best camel you may see. Behold,
[1:27:10] Speaker 1: the writer was the Prophet himself. He said, what makes
[1:27:13] Speaker 1: you in such a hurry? I replied, I am newly married.
[1:27:16] Speaker 1: And he said, did you marry a virgin or a matron?
[1:27:20] Speaker 1: I replied a matron? And he said, why didn't you
[1:27:23] Speaker 1: marry a young girl so that you may play with
[1:27:25] Speaker 1: her and she with you. When we were about to
[1:27:30] Speaker 1: enter Medina, the prophet said, wait, so that you may
[1:27:33] Speaker 1: enter Medina at night, so that the lady of unkempt
[1:27:36] Speaker 1: hair may comb her hair, and the one whose husband
[1:27:39] Speaker 1: has been absent may shave her pubic region. Wow, he's
[1:27:43] Speaker 1: a perv.
[1:27:47] Speaker 15: Look so im look historically before I made the conclusion
[1:27:54] Speaker 15: that there were children at that time?
[1:27:56] Speaker 2: Is the president what you believe? I don't know, according
[1:27:58] Speaker 2: to the normal quoture, Yeah, okay, I wouldn't know.
[1:28:03] Speaker 1: You don't find it weird that the that the prophet
[1:28:06] Speaker 1: of God was down with children?
[1:28:09] Speaker 15: Well, I don't think she was necessarily a child or
[1:28:12] Speaker 15: going to our criteria, I just.
[1:28:17] Speaker 2: Like she was a child. Yeah, going to our marstern
[1:28:21] Speaker 2: actually be objectively a child?
[1:28:22] Speaker 5: She was that she was?
[1:28:27] Speaker 2: How would that make sense? Please like it to you.
[1:28:31] Speaker 2: I'm gonna speak, Actually, are you going there go to No, No,
[1:28:38] Speaker 2: I'm looking at the.
[1:28:42] Speaker 3: Look.
[1:28:42] Speaker 2: I don't have a problem with the marriage. It was
[1:28:45] Speaker 2: just historical.
[1:28:47] Speaker 1: So well, okay, let me ask you a question. Is
[1:28:50] Speaker 1: it is it preferable to married children that are age
[1:28:55] Speaker 1: six or is it preferable, say to mary grown women,
[1:29:00] Speaker 1: which is the most preferable.
[1:29:02] Speaker 4: Of the two.
[1:29:03] Speaker 2: You prefer go to marry growing women.
[1:29:07] Speaker 1: In terms of like what would be just overall best
[1:29:10] Speaker 1: for society and overall what would be best in terms
[1:29:14] Speaker 1: of like mouristic moralistic.
[1:29:18] Speaker 2: Ieas I win against science.
[1:29:20] Speaker 15: Yeah, so the probable cases that would have to be
[1:29:22] Speaker 15: within like the age of like seventeen to eighteen.
[1:29:24] Speaker 2: I think around there, Okay.
[1:29:26] Speaker 1: So I only asked that because, like I think, in
[1:29:29] Speaker 1: your mind and in most of the people here in
[1:29:32] Speaker 1: their minds, they're thinking that the best outcome for finding
[1:29:37] Speaker 1: a mate is someone who's fully grown, not a trial.
[1:29:41] Speaker 1: So the problem I have is that what we find
[1:29:45] Speaker 1: in Islam is that the prophet, the most holy person
[1:29:49] Speaker 1: in your religion, that the guy that everyone looks up to,
[1:29:52] Speaker 1: is doing the least preferred thing. He's marrying children.
[1:29:56] Speaker 15: I just wouldn't call her a child at that time
[1:29:58] Speaker 15: though she Yeah, but it wasn't consummate until nine until
[1:30:05] Speaker 15: it's just physically she was a child, and.
[1:30:06] Speaker 1: She was a child that it was consummated, and nine
[1:30:08] Speaker 1: is still way too young. What passages that ms?
[1:30:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a contact. It is it is in his book.
[1:30:18] Speaker 2: It's the chip fucking that. It's that at both cases
[1:30:22] Speaker 2: where the marriage happened, that the conservation happened. Where when
[1:30:24] Speaker 2: I usually was a child who had no upon yourself.
[1:30:29] Speaker 2: Be that again, it's the chipter of fucking. But sure,
[1:30:35] Speaker 2: it's just that at both cases, that the marriage and
[1:30:38] Speaker 2: the conservation of what actually happened. But when she was
[1:30:40] Speaker 2: a preposing girl who had no upon yourself.
[1:30:48] Speaker 4: Sounds great.
[1:30:49] Speaker 15: We're talking about say, I'm actually I'm really breaking my
[1:30:51] Speaker 15: fast right now, as you know, it's around Madonna.
[1:30:54] Speaker 2: Some fast thing broke in. Mm hmm. What do you
[1:30:59] Speaker 2: have to say? He's saying that she was a peep,
[1:31:01] Speaker 2: a pree peperson girl with conservation. Which scholar you're talking
[1:31:07] Speaker 2: about right now? Like, I'm a confusing you know you don't.
[1:31:13] Speaker 2: I've probably heard of him. Yeah, I think shoot, might
[1:31:16] Speaker 2: have shoe f you do repeat that again? I can't admit.
[1:31:23] Speaker 3: You do.
[1:31:26] Speaker 2: He's probably like might have scholar right He's he's literally
[1:31:30] Speaker 2: the filter of the school. It's deemed after her. You
[1:31:35] Speaker 2: don't know him.
[1:31:37] Speaker 15: I'm agnostic to the menhaps right now, the school of
[1:31:39] Speaker 15: thoughts right now, it's just learning about them. So I
[1:31:44] Speaker 15: wouldn't have an opinion on all the school of thoughts
[1:31:46] Speaker 15: right now since I'm learning about that.
[1:31:47] Speaker 2: And if he's able to your schoolers, your schoolers say
[1:31:50] Speaker 2: that she was prepeoper at the term of babriage, and
[1:31:53] Speaker 2: some of them say at the time of conservation she
[1:31:55] Speaker 2: was pepeoper sent.
[1:31:56] Speaker 1: Right, and the hadith Hadid says the same thing.
[1:32:03] Speaker 15: Are your friends, No, I think something schoful that she
[1:32:07] Speaker 15: was best at nine like it if you go to
[1:32:09] Speaker 15: this commentary, let me find that book.
[1:32:11] Speaker 1: But well, let me make.
[1:32:14] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:32:14] Speaker 1: I have a really interesting question though, Like, let's imagine
[1:32:17] Speaker 1: that she hit puberty at age eight. She had precocious
[1:32:22] Speaker 1: puberty as a as they say, you think that's okay
[1:32:25] Speaker 1: to marry a girl just because she hit puberty early.
[1:32:29] Speaker 1: Do you think her mind was ready? How do you
[1:32:32] Speaker 1: think a nine year old is mentally ready?
[1:32:36] Speaker 15: I mean, in our case, we can prove that she
[1:32:38] Speaker 15: was mentally ready because she fought, and she fought at
[1:32:41] Speaker 15: age like ten. I think she participated in battles like
[1:32:44] Speaker 15: during the age of ten. I couldn't she didn't she
[1:32:47] Speaker 15: was responsible?
[1:32:49] Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think women would fight she was
[1:32:53] Speaker 2: can Can I respond? Yes?
[1:32:56] Speaker 15: Okay, because she she was responsible for effort. I don't
[1:33:00] Speaker 15: think a woman would just be physically repeat that again,
[1:33:05] Speaker 15: she was due responsible? No, and could you shure be weird?
[1:33:08] Speaker 15: She was responsible for anything in a battle.
[1:33:11] Speaker 2: Got one second.
[1:33:13] Speaker 1: I'm curious if Mussa would let one of those kids
[1:33:16] Speaker 1: in the background to hear talking, let one of them
[1:33:18] Speaker 1: get married at age nine.
[1:33:21] Speaker 2: They're not They're not nine. No, And I don't think
[1:33:24] Speaker 2: it would be preferable.
[1:33:26] Speaker 1: Okay, so it would not be preferable.
[1:33:28] Speaker 2: Okay, just check them, yeah, man's yeah, yeah. So the
[1:33:34] Speaker 2: claim is that it was on the battlefield who of
[1:33:38] Speaker 2: the battle was at the age of fifteen? Actually, yeah,
[1:33:43] Speaker 2: when sims culdars, when sim Sculdars c that she was
[1:33:45] Speaker 2: probably at the age of puberty at the time, I.
[1:33:51] Speaker 15: Got second drinking something right now, can repeat that again?
[1:33:53] Speaker 15: I have like a low volume.
[1:33:55] Speaker 2: I see that the claim is that she was on
[1:33:59] Speaker 2: the battlefield at the age of fifteen, But that has
[1:34:02] Speaker 2: nothing to do with they're getting married at the age
[1:34:04] Speaker 2: of money. No, we have attestations. It's just compute them well,
[1:34:11] Speaker 2: ning and computer, real quick. They do not existent. Sure,
[1:34:18] Speaker 2: give me a second, let me give my phone.
[1:34:20] Speaker 1: Actually, it's crazy to me that people believe in a
[1:34:27] Speaker 1: religion where you can marry children. It's it's weird to
[1:34:32] Speaker 1: me that this religion exists in twenty twenty five.
[1:34:36] Speaker 2: By the way, there's one of their schoolers. His name
[1:34:38] Speaker 2: is even handsome. He says what he says that it
[1:34:42] Speaker 2: is there is no there is no problem with conservation happening.
[1:34:45] Speaker 2: It's even when they want if the girl can do.
[1:34:48] Speaker 1: It, that's that's insanity. And Date I agree, thank you
[1:34:53] Speaker 1: for the super chat. Date says it's irrational and uh,
[1:34:56] Speaker 1: it's rational and logical to conclude that Musa's epistemology is
[1:35:00] Speaker 1: flawed and his incredulity is more obvious than his ignorance. Well,
[1:35:04] Speaker 1: I think it's good. It's gonna get even worse now
[1:35:07] Speaker 1: we're talking about child marriage. Evans says he didn't have
[1:35:10] Speaker 1: a computer because the commiscated.
[1:35:14] Speaker 8: I would too.
[1:35:14] Speaker 1: The minute you start justifying child marriage, you need to
[1:35:17] Speaker 1: get your computer taken away from you. And data's Musa
[1:35:21] Speaker 1: is morally depraved, I think, I.
[1:35:24] Speaker 2: And then you go to to a one one all.
[1:35:27] Speaker 1: Right, alright, hold on, let me grab it, he said, Bakari.
[1:35:30] Speaker 15: Yeah, two eight zero two thousand D. I don't have
[1:35:40] Speaker 15: a stand against like their marriage. I just think is
[1:35:43] Speaker 15: he's a cause of history. You have people are married
[1:35:46] Speaker 15: at young gigs. That's not that's not something that's just
[1:35:47] Speaker 15: like works? Was it twenty eight, two thousand.
[1:35:55] Speaker 1: J oh, sorry, I misunder I didn't hear you correctly.
[1:35:58] Speaker 1: Let me get to eight eight pulled up. Okay, okay,
[1:36:03] Speaker 1: so let me put it on the screen. So it
[1:36:07] Speaker 1: says I was in the company of Jaibir bin Abdullah
[1:36:13] Speaker 1: in uh Sorry, that's.
[1:36:14] Speaker 6: The one.
[1:36:16] Speaker 15: That's the wrong one. Apologies and find it again. It
[1:36:22] Speaker 15: is Boi, yeah, my bag, give me one second, bro,
[1:36:27] Speaker 15: I think you're on the wrong one.
[1:36:29] Speaker 3: It is.
[1:36:29] Speaker 2: It is BOHOODI to eight etio.
[1:36:32] Speaker 1: Okay, there we go fighting for the cause of Allah,
[1:36:38] Speaker 1: says on the day of the Battle of Uhad, when
[1:36:41] Speaker 1: some people retreated and left the prophet, I saw Aisha
[1:36:45] Speaker 1: bent Abu Bakhar and um Sulim with their robes tucked
[1:36:51] Speaker 1: up so that the bangles around their ankles were visible,
[1:36:53] Speaker 1: hurrying with their water skins. In another narration, it is
[1:36:57] Speaker 1: said carrying the water skins on their backs, and then
[1:37:00] Speaker 1: they would pour the water in the mouth of the
[1:37:02] Speaker 1: people and return to fill the water skins again and
[1:37:05] Speaker 1: come back to pour the water in the mouth. Okay,
[1:37:07] Speaker 1: So they're giving water.
[1:37:08] Speaker 2: To the yes, so she no in this contest.
[1:37:12] Speaker 8: Yeah.
[1:37:13] Speaker 2: The squaws issue is like around the age of ten.
[1:37:15] Speaker 2: So she was a nurse. So it was the leader
[1:37:19] Speaker 2: that though the saw it was three years after Histra.
[1:37:26] Speaker 2: Repeat that the battle level was three years after the
[1:37:31] Speaker 2: convener of Histral. That al who does it letter? Because
[1:37:33] Speaker 2: it doesn't mentioned. Maybe one a second, we'll come back.
[1:37:36] Speaker 2: Someone's going in. I don't know what's going on with them.
[1:37:43] Speaker 5: Yeah, I need to.
[1:37:46] Speaker 1: Get I need to get more familiar with the Hoodiths.
[1:37:48] Speaker 1: I know there's a ton of them, but like they're
[1:37:51] Speaker 1: to me reading the Hoodiths are.
[1:37:54] Speaker 2: Interesting alone is collected six hundred thousands.
[1:37:58] Speaker 1: Jesus, that's so many. Think you're no, that's like more
[1:38:04] Speaker 1: than the Talmudic writings. Oh my gosh.
[1:38:11] Speaker 15: Yeah, yeah, I think it would be preferable if you
[1:38:14] Speaker 15: just like I know you have like a stand against
[1:38:17] Speaker 15: the prophet, that's fine, but like accurse to my belief.
[1:38:19] Speaker 15: I don't think it's allowed for me to speak to
[1:38:21] Speaker 15: someone that would adjust my politic of pervert. That's if
[1:38:24] Speaker 15: you hold that position, that's fine. I don't think you
[1:38:26] Speaker 15: should say to me because I would have to leave
[1:38:29] Speaker 15: accords to my faith.
[1:38:30] Speaker 1: Do you think that apostles should be executed?
[1:38:35] Speaker 2: I mean union policy laws?
[1:38:38] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[1:38:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, according to us they'll be cheating.
[1:38:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, but in your mind, should that happen, well.
[1:38:47] Speaker 15: I wouldn't go against my belief, so I orter firms
[1:38:49] Speaker 15: some circumstances. Yeah, I just don't think you could just
[1:38:53] Speaker 15: go ahead and murder someone just because you suspect them
[1:38:55] Speaker 15: of Apostlesy.
[1:38:57] Speaker 2: I think you'd have to do it. I have to, alright,
[1:39:00] Speaker 2: if you.
[1:39:00] Speaker 1: Just suspect him, like if they if they actually are
[1:39:03] Speaker 1: legitimately apostates, you think they should be killed?
[1:39:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be trees, I guess God.
[1:39:08] Speaker 1: Okay, cool, thanks for letting us know that you're a
[1:39:12] Speaker 1: violent psychopath. Also, I'm sorry, like my belief, I'm sorry,
[1:39:19] Speaker 1: jib is saying, justin can you please read out Sahi
[1:39:22] Speaker 1: Muslim fourteen fifty three, eight books seventeen he d thirty three.
[1:39:25] Speaker 1: It's even worse. I got youa fam says messenger of Allah.
[1:39:29] Speaker 1: I see the face of Abu Jadeifa signs of disgust
[1:39:35] Speaker 1: on entering of Salim, who is an ally to our house,
[1:39:39] Speaker 1: whereupon Allah's apostles said, suckle him? Oh shit, she said,
[1:39:43] Speaker 1: how can I suckle him? As he is a grown
[1:39:46] Speaker 1: up man. Alla's messenger smiled and said, I already know
[1:39:49] Speaker 1: that he is a young man. Amir has made this
[1:39:53] Speaker 1: edition on his narration and that he participated in the
[1:39:57] Speaker 1: Battle of Badir in the narration of been Umar. What
[1:40:01] Speaker 1: does it mean to suckle some somebody.
[1:40:04] Speaker 15: So we could whispeed him? Yeah, in this context, I don't.
[1:40:08] Speaker 15: I think this is like a nabrogated verse. It doesn't
[1:40:10] Speaker 15: believe exist across. Yeah, but there was a verse about
[1:40:15] Speaker 15: it that's been nabrogated.
[1:40:17] Speaker 2: I think we have if if a man were if
[1:40:21] Speaker 2: acles from a movement for like a period of two,
[1:40:25] Speaker 2: she becomesistible there.
[1:40:26] Speaker 15: Yeah, yeah, caretaker, that's that's an essential thing. Take care
[1:40:32] Speaker 15: of the babe. I think you have to go to
[1:40:36] Speaker 15: the context that Actually I don't remember to that that
[1:40:40] Speaker 15: I had. I just don't remember the context of that.
[1:40:42] Speaker 2: Answered you.
[1:40:44] Speaker 1: Sure well, listen, Mosse, I had a good time talking
[1:40:46] Speaker 1: to you. We're gonna move on to the next.
[1:40:48] Speaker 6: Guess.
[1:40:48] Speaker 1: Okay, but I mean you took you took our jabs
[1:40:52] Speaker 1: pretty well, so I mean kudos to you.
[1:40:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, thank you.
[1:40:56] Speaker 3: I guess all right, cheers man.
[1:40:59] Speaker 15: I don't don't really have anything against the I guess
[1:41:02] Speaker 15: you call charmriage and the sense that she was nine.
[1:41:06] Speaker 15: I just think historically you can see that the war
[1:41:08] Speaker 15: are children, I mean women being married at being married
[1:41:11] Speaker 15: at like a young age. I don't think you could
[1:41:13] Speaker 15: just hold people comfortable for like things that were normal
[1:41:16] Speaker 15: back then.
[1:41:17] Speaker 1: I would if they were getting messages from God. Yeah,
[1:41:19] Speaker 1: I would expect God.
[1:41:20] Speaker 4: To know better.
[1:41:22] Speaker 2: Okay you can, I guess God, I guess you already do, right, Okay,
[1:41:27] Speaker 2: goodbye list.
[1:41:29] Speaker 1: I I never am surprised when human beings do horrific things.
[1:41:33] Speaker 1: We expect human beings to do horrific things. What I
[1:41:36] Speaker 1: don't expect is for a God to be doing horrific things.
[1:41:41] Speaker 1: That's that's what I don't expect.
[1:41:44] Speaker 8: You know.
[1:41:47] Speaker 1: All right, I'm going to try to get Sadir Gupta
[1:41:50] Speaker 1: back up with us. We see if they got a
[1:41:52] Speaker 1: better audio connection. Sadir, is it gonna work this time?
[1:41:56] Speaker 1: Cross your fingers. Also, Jim, thank you for the one
[1:42:00] Speaker 1: dollar super things. I appreciate that. And cool says, why
[1:42:03] Speaker 1: is it so bad to say things are bad? I know,
[1:42:05] Speaker 1: I know it's so hard sometimes just to say things
[1:42:08] Speaker 1: are bad, Like we shouldn't have to like pull somebody's
[1:42:12] Speaker 1: uh strings to get them to say that it's bad
[1:42:15] Speaker 1: to marry children. It should just be obvious, all right,
[1:42:20] Speaker 1: is not there's something's wrong with their connection. We're gonna
[1:42:23] Speaker 1: move on to the next one. Oh shit, he's up
[1:42:26] Speaker 1: here twice. That's that's what's okay, se dear, you're up
[1:42:30] Speaker 1: here again, this time on your phone.
[1:42:31] Speaker 5: How you doing?
[1:42:35] Speaker 1: I don't hear an echo? There is an echo?
[1:42:38] Speaker 6: Oh no, this is this is my phone.
[1:42:40] Speaker 14: I joined here to see if the test if the
[1:42:42] Speaker 14: echo works from my computer again with my headphones.
[1:42:45] Speaker 1: Okay, this guy is really determined to get on. He
[1:42:50] Speaker 1: must have he must have something to say. He's tried
[1:42:54] Speaker 1: to get in here six times. All right, dear, ye, hello,
[1:43:01] Speaker 1: I think it's working now, Yes, welcome. Actually I think
[1:43:05] Speaker 1: em you should be able to hear him too, right, yes, okay,
[1:43:09] Speaker 1: so em can hear the guests, but the guests can't
[1:43:11] Speaker 1: hear you unfortunately. That's okay, So, dear, I assume you
[1:43:17] Speaker 1: are at least eighteen right, yes, okay? And what God
[1:43:21] Speaker 1: do you believe in?
[1:43:23] Speaker 14: You gotta do a Christian Bible?
[1:43:25] Speaker 3: Okay?
[1:43:26] Speaker 1: Cool? And can you like get a little bit closer
[1:43:28] Speaker 1: to microphone? It's really hard to hear you.
[1:43:31] Speaker 14: All right?
[1:43:32] Speaker 8: Is this better? Yeah?
[1:43:33] Speaker 4: Actually it is better?
[1:43:36] Speaker 6: Yeah?
[1:43:37] Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, it should be good. Guys in the audience,
[1:43:40] Speaker 1: let me know if you can hear them. Now, I
[1:43:42] Speaker 1: think we I think we've got enough audio from when
[1:43:44] Speaker 1: we should be able to to work through this last question. Uh, sir,
[1:43:50] Speaker 1: are you at least.
[1:43:50] Speaker 14: Eighteen Yes, you already asked me that.
[1:43:53] Speaker 1: Oh I'm sorry, Yeah, I get lost in conversation something. Okay, cool.
[1:43:57] Speaker 1: So what would be your best argument or most convincing
[1:44:00] Speaker 1: evidence for the Christian God being real?
[1:44:05] Speaker 14: So we have no proof going either way that any
[1:44:09] Speaker 14: God is real or any God is not real. So
[1:44:12] Speaker 14: me believing or me choosing to believe in the Christian
[1:44:14] Speaker 14: God is no better than you choosing to believe in
[1:44:17] Speaker 14: your own reality.
[1:44:19] Speaker 1: Right, But I think my reality is rooted in evidence,
[1:44:23] Speaker 1: and I don't think that theistic claims are rooted in evidence.
[1:44:29] Speaker 14: Okay, So then we'd have to define what evidence is
[1:44:32] Speaker 14: and that evidence that you believe. Again, I'm saying you believe,
[1:44:37] Speaker 14: it's going to be your belief again. So really, anything,
[1:44:41] Speaker 14: if you take it for what it is, it's you
[1:44:43] Speaker 14: are believing it. And if I choose to believe in
[1:44:46] Speaker 14: a god, there there really is no difference.
[1:44:48] Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you a better question. Also, Rachel Estridge,
[1:44:52] Speaker 1: thank you for the six sixty six over venmo big
[1:44:55] Speaker 1: w Rachel. Rachel says, thank you for supporting women so fiercely.
[1:44:59] Speaker 1: I will I'll never stop supporting women on this live stream.
[1:45:04] Speaker 1: So so dear let me. I want to make sure
[1:45:08] Speaker 1: and ask them question that we can engage with.
[1:45:11] Speaker 5: What would be.
[1:45:14] Speaker 1: The things that are most convincing to you about the
[1:45:17] Speaker 1: Christian faith? Like if I asked you, like if I
[1:45:21] Speaker 1: was a random stranger on the street and I wanted
[1:45:25] Speaker 1: to know, why are you a Christian?
[1:45:26] Speaker 4: What would you tell me?
[1:45:31] Speaker 14: Because I grew up that way and that's how I
[1:45:34] Speaker 14: was raised. My parents brought me up that way.
[1:45:37] Speaker 1: Okay, if that's a fair answer, yes, do you think
[1:45:40] Speaker 1: that that is the best way to determine what is true?
[1:45:47] Speaker 14: There really is no way to determine what is absolutely true.
[1:45:51] Speaker 14: It's anyways. It comes back all to our beliefs.
[1:45:55] Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I mean I appreciate the honest answer because
[1:45:59] Speaker 1: I I agree with you. I think there are things
[1:46:02] Speaker 1: ultimately we're not capable of knowing. But I do believe
[1:46:06] Speaker 1: that your particular God is in irrational God that doesn't
[1:46:11] Speaker 1: make a lot of sense, which is why I'm not
[1:46:12] Speaker 1: inclined to believe in your God. And I think there's
[1:46:17] Speaker 1: maybe four reasons. We don't do them all at once,
[1:46:19] Speaker 1: but there's kind of four reasons why I don't believe
[1:46:21] Speaker 1: in your God, and I think a lot of them
[1:46:23] Speaker 1: stem from the Bible. I think the Bible is hopelessly
[1:46:28] Speaker 1: contradictory in essentially all of its doctrines between the Old
[1:46:34] Speaker 1: Testament and the New Testament, gets history and science wrong
[1:46:38] Speaker 1: quite a bit. And then it's also true that we've
[1:46:42] Speaker 1: got really poor manuscript evidence for quite a bit of it.
[1:46:45] Speaker 1: And then I think the last thing is Jesus didn't
[1:46:49] Speaker 1: fulfill any of the Messianic prophecies, which means he's certainly
[1:46:53] Speaker 1: not the Messiah. And if he's not the Messiah, then
[1:46:55] Speaker 1: Christianity is not true. So that's why I think Christianity
[1:46:59] Speaker 1: we can just throw that right out the window.
[1:47:03] Speaker 14: All right, Can you please present your evidence?
[1:47:05] Speaker 5: Yeah? For sure?
[1:47:06] Speaker 1: Which one you want me to start with? You can
[1:47:08] Speaker 1: serve with any Okay, Well, my favorite topic ever of
[1:47:13] Speaker 1: all time is talking about the prophecies of Jesus. And
[1:47:18] Speaker 1: so let me go ahead and take you to We're
[1:47:23] Speaker 1: going to go to Isaiah chapter forty and this is
[1:47:27] Speaker 1: a familiar passage for most people. I'm gonna put it
[1:47:30] Speaker 1: on the screen. You won't be able to see it yet,
[1:47:33] Speaker 1: but give me a second. I'll share it with you
[1:47:35] Speaker 1: one second. Actually, if you can see my screen, you
[1:47:39] Speaker 1: you can see it on the screen. Can you see
[1:47:40] Speaker 1: my screen? Yeah, you can see Okay, so you might
[1:47:44] Speaker 1: be able to read it.
[1:47:44] Speaker 4: Okay, cool.
[1:47:45] Speaker 1: I'm going to read it out loud anyways. So the
[1:47:47] Speaker 1: prophecy starts out with comfort. Oh comfort, my people, says,
[1:47:50] Speaker 1: your God, speak tenderly to Jerusalem, and cry to her
[1:47:54] Speaker 1: that she has served her term, that her penalty has
[1:47:57] Speaker 1: been paid, that she has received the Lord's hand double
[1:48:01] Speaker 1: for her sins. A voice cries out in the wilderness.
[1:48:04] Speaker 1: Prepare the way of the Lord makes straight in the
[1:48:07] Speaker 1: desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be
[1:48:10] Speaker 1: lifted up, and every mountain shall be made low. The
[1:48:13] Speaker 1: uneven ground shall become level, and the rough places a plane.
[1:48:17] Speaker 1: And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and
[1:48:19] Speaker 1: all flesh will see it together. For the mouth of
[1:48:21] Speaker 1: the Lord has spoken. So what's happening here in Isaiah forty?
[1:48:26] Speaker 1: Do you know what's happening?
[1:48:36] Speaker 3: Well?
[1:48:37] Speaker 14: I I pretty much. I don't remember. It's been a while.
[1:48:42] Speaker 1: But so what's happening is there's a this is the
[1:48:47] Speaker 1: beginning of a prophetic unit we call Deutero Isaiah. And
[1:48:51] Speaker 1: he's talking to those that are in Jerusalem about how
[1:48:55] Speaker 1: Yahweh is about to free them from captivity in Babylon
[1:48:59] Speaker 1: because the majority of their people have been held captive
[1:49:02] Speaker 1: in Babylon. And so this starts the Restoration prophecy in
[1:49:06] Speaker 1: chapter forty. And he's saying it now is the time
[1:49:09] Speaker 1: to comfort the people that are mourning, because the time
[1:49:13] Speaker 1: of morning is over. Your penalty has now been paid,
[1:49:16] Speaker 1: your terms of service has run out. So he's saying that, look,
[1:49:22] Speaker 1: we're going to make a highway for our God because
[1:49:25] Speaker 1: God is coming back. He's going to return to the people.
[1:49:28] Speaker 1: In fact, he says, get up. Refer he's talking to
[1:49:32] Speaker 1: another human being right here to the herald. He says,
[1:49:34] Speaker 1: get up to a high mountain, O Zion, herald of
[1:49:37] Speaker 1: good news. Lift up your voice with strength, Jerusalem, Oh Jerusalem,
[1:49:42] Speaker 1: herald of good news, lift it up. Do not fear,
[1:49:44] Speaker 1: say to the cities of Judah, here is your God.
[1:49:47] Speaker 1: See the Lord comes with might, and his arm rules
[1:49:51] Speaker 1: for him. His reward is with him, his recompense before him.
[1:49:55] Speaker 1: So this is God doing what was promised throughout all
[1:49:59] Speaker 1: the of the Second Isaiah, namely releasing the people from
[1:50:04] Speaker 1: captivity in Babylon and returning them to the land and
[1:50:09] Speaker 1: then you know, coming back to the temple. That's why
[1:50:12] Speaker 1: it says that he's actually gonna round them up. That's
[1:50:17] Speaker 1: not the right word. I'm looking for. Give me a second.
[1:50:20] Speaker 1: He's gonna put them in his bosom, it says what
[1:50:24] Speaker 1: verse says that. Give me a second to figure out
[1:50:26] Speaker 1: where that one was there you go verse eleven. Yeah,
[1:50:32] Speaker 1: he will feed his flock like a shepherd. He will
[1:50:34] Speaker 1: gather the lambs in his arms. He will carry them
[1:50:36] Speaker 1: in his bosom and gently lead the mother sheep. Okay,
[1:50:40] Speaker 1: So I say all that to say this Isaiah forty.
[1:50:43] Speaker 1: Given the context of Isaiah, is actually pretty clear. It's
[1:50:45] Speaker 1: just about what's going to happen after the Babylonian captivity
[1:50:49] Speaker 1: in the end of the sixth century BCE. The problem
[1:50:53] Speaker 1: is like when we go to Mark, Mark has no
[1:50:56] Speaker 1: idea what he's talking about, and neither do the other
[1:50:58] Speaker 1: gospel authors because they think this is a prophecy about
[1:51:02] Speaker 1: the time of the Messiah, and it says the beginning
[1:51:06] Speaker 1: of the good news of Jesus Christ as it was
[1:51:09] Speaker 1: written in the prophet Isaiah. See, I'm sending my messenger
[1:51:12] Speaker 1: ahead of you, who will prepare your way, the voice
[1:51:15] Speaker 1: of the one crying out in the wilderness, prepare the
[1:51:18] Speaker 1: way of the Lord, make his path straight. But this
[1:51:21] Speaker 1: prophecy of from Isaiah had nothing to do with the
[1:51:23] Speaker 1: Messiah at all. There's nothing about Messiah mentioned. And he
[1:51:28] Speaker 1: also gets the prophet wrong. This part right here says
[1:51:31] Speaker 1: I'm sending my messenger ahead of you to prepare your way.
[1:51:34] Speaker 1: That's from Malachi chapter three. This is not from Isaiah.
[1:51:38] Speaker 1: This part is from Isaiah. So like the Gospel authors,
[1:51:42] Speaker 1: not only can they not quote the text appropriately, but
[1:51:44] Speaker 1: they don't know what the text are talking about.
[1:51:50] Speaker 3: All right, So.
[1:51:54] Speaker 14: First of all, I like to say that these authors
[1:51:57] Speaker 14: do not like represent God entirely. They have their own
[1:52:02] Speaker 14: understanding of how things work, and they decide to, you know,
[1:52:05] Speaker 14: write down everything best they can. It's it's the main
[1:52:08] Speaker 14: idea of the Bible that we should be taking away,
[1:52:11] Speaker 14: not these like one two paragraphs, where these guys are
[1:52:15] Speaker 14: people who wrote down something that we don't. We don't
[1:52:18] Speaker 14: we can't that that's human error that we can't say
[1:52:23] Speaker 14: we wouldn't make in that same case either.
[1:52:25] Speaker 1: Sure, so that'specially a really good point. Okay, So if
[1:52:29] Speaker 1: we find a bunch of problems with the Bible, we
[1:52:31] Speaker 1: could chalk it up to human error. But let me
[1:52:34] Speaker 1: ask you a question. What percentage of the Bible needs
[1:52:37] Speaker 1: to be? Like how much human error should I find
[1:52:42] Speaker 1: in the Bible before I'm warranted just to say, well,
[1:52:47] Speaker 1: it's all written by humans and I don't shouldn't trust
[1:52:50] Speaker 1: any of it, Like, should ninety nine percent of it
[1:52:53] Speaker 1: be true? Ninety percent of it be true? What's the percentage?
[1:52:56] Speaker 14: So I think when I came here, like I was
[1:53:00] Speaker 14: telling you, there really is no way to prove anything, right,
[1:53:05] Speaker 14: So if we're trying to if we're trying to prove
[1:53:08] Speaker 14: something here, you can't really give a percentage of truth.
[1:53:11] Speaker 14: So I want to ask you what is what is
[1:53:14] Speaker 14: your truth?
[1:53:14] Speaker 6: What do you believe in?
[1:53:16] Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I'm an atheist. I don't believe in
[1:53:18] Speaker 1: in any gods. I think that the universe is eternal.
[1:53:23] Speaker 1: I think it's you know, time, matter and space have
[1:53:25] Speaker 1: always existed and they always will exist. And like if
[1:53:31] Speaker 1: if there is such a thing as an afterlife. I
[1:53:33] Speaker 1: would assume that it's just a naturalistic phenomenon part of
[1:53:36] Speaker 1: our universe, completely unrelated to a god. But I also
[1:53:39] Speaker 1: don't believe in an afterlife either.
[1:53:42] Speaker 14: Okay, so you right there, what I heard was many beliefs.
[1:53:48] Speaker 14: You said, time, whatever, space, or have been there forever?
[1:53:52] Speaker 14: If have you seen the fourth dimension? For example? Have
[1:53:57] Speaker 14: you seen anything beyond what like what you have seen
[1:54:01] Speaker 14: throughout your lifetime? Like what I'm saying is we as
[1:54:03] Speaker 14: humans in this world, we can't see anything past like
[1:54:08] Speaker 14: what we know. We don't know what exists. Who knows
[1:54:10] Speaker 14: what's out there? It might just be a bunch of
[1:54:12] Speaker 14: aliens controlling us. This might be like a kid controlling us,
[1:54:16] Speaker 14: like we're a toy. So we don't really know what's
[1:54:19] Speaker 14: out there. So everything you know anyways, it's gonna just
[1:54:23] Speaker 14: be believed.
[1:54:24] Speaker 1: I mean, I agree, I think there are things that
[1:54:26] Speaker 1: we don't know, and I reserve judgment on those things.
[1:54:31] Speaker 1: Right So, like so on the.
[1:54:36] Speaker 14: We could go through like these Bible passages. But I'm
[1:54:38] Speaker 14: not an expert on the Bible and I've not researched
[1:54:42] Speaker 14: it in depth, so I'm sure if there would be
[1:54:45] Speaker 14: somebody else who might be able to answer you in
[1:54:46] Speaker 14: some way, and you might be able to answer them back,
[1:54:48] Speaker 14: and it could probably go back and forth. But I'm
[1:54:50] Speaker 14: not gonna be able to do that.
[1:54:52] Speaker 1: Okay, Well, listen, Sadir, I mean you're delightful to talk to.
[1:54:56] Speaker 1: We're gonna try to get someone in here who wants
[1:54:58] Speaker 1: to really debate whether or not their religion is true.
[1:55:03] Speaker 1: But thanks you for what.
[1:55:04] Speaker 14: No, I'm I'm serious, Like, could you help me with
[1:55:08] Speaker 14: this idea of like understanding what is like truth? Anyways?
[1:55:12] Speaker 14: Like how how do we come up with that? How
[1:55:16] Speaker 14: do we what does truth stand that for ourselves?
[1:55:19] Speaker 8: Yeah?
[1:55:19] Speaker 1: But I think what is true is always tentative, right,
[1:55:22] Speaker 1: Like we observe the world around us, and we say,
[1:55:26] Speaker 1: you know, when people make claims that seem to be
[1:55:28] Speaker 1: in accordance with reality, we call that true.
[1:55:32] Speaker 14: You know, well, which reality? It's our subjective reality anyways, Yep.
[1:55:38] Speaker 1: That's all we have is our subjective reality. We have
[1:55:40] Speaker 1: no access to anything outside of that.
[1:55:43] Speaker 14: So then from that, how can we just say something
[1:55:46] Speaker 14: is true objectively?
[1:55:48] Speaker 1: Well, because we're experiencing the world, right, So like, what
[1:55:52] Speaker 1: even when we say that something is objectively true, that
[1:55:55] Speaker 1: we're essentially using it colloquially to mean that, like we
[1:55:58] Speaker 1: can root it in what we would consider objective principles,
[1:56:02] Speaker 1: Like you would say it's objectively true that I'm holding
[1:56:06] Speaker 1: a pen, right because we can use our powers of
[1:56:10] Speaker 1: investigation to see that I'm holding a pen. But that
[1:56:14] Speaker 1: doesn't mean beyond a shadow of a doubt that that's
[1:56:17] Speaker 1: the case. I could be inside somebody's dream. We could
[1:56:20] Speaker 1: all be someone's dream right now and not actually exist
[1:56:24] Speaker 1: in the real world.
[1:56:26] Speaker 14: Yes, indeed, so right from there, if you have your
[1:56:30] Speaker 14: own beliefs in reality anyways, why can't I have mine?
[1:56:32] Speaker 1: As my question, well, you can. I never said that
[1:56:35] Speaker 1: you couldn't. I'm just saying that, you know, I don't
[1:56:37] Speaker 1: find them to be very convincing. And you sound like
[1:56:41] Speaker 1: a nice person, but certainly you can understand that we
[1:56:43] Speaker 1: talk to a lot of religious people that are not
[1:56:46] Speaker 1: nice people, and they're willing to use the religion to
[1:56:49] Speaker 1: justify all kinds of horrors like slavery, like treating women
[1:56:54] Speaker 1: like they're lower than men. Like you wouldn't do those things.
[1:56:56] Speaker 5: Would you.
[1:56:57] Speaker 14: This is an interesting concept as well. So again I said,
[1:57:01] Speaker 14: you have to distinguish the people from God. But also
[1:57:04] Speaker 14: what do we consider as right? What do we consider
[1:57:06] Speaker 14: as wrong? You, I mean you as an atheist. I
[1:57:09] Speaker 14: want to ask you, where do you get your morals?
[1:57:11] Speaker 14: How can those exist without God?
[1:57:13] Speaker 1: Well, in my framework, all morals are subjective, right, yes,
[1:57:16] Speaker 1: and so all morals are a product of social engagement.
[1:57:22] Speaker 1: And I know there are some atheists that do believe
[1:57:24] Speaker 1: in objective morals. They have methods for arriving at this.
[1:57:28] Speaker 1: I don't believe in objective morals. I think before someone
[1:57:32] Speaker 1: claims that morals are objective, it's up to them to
[1:57:35] Speaker 1: demonstrate that they exist. Now, I would love for morals
[1:57:38] Speaker 1: to be objective. It would make life way easier, but
[1:57:41] Speaker 1: I see no evidence that morals are objective.
[1:57:45] Speaker 14: Yes, so then how do you know that they're committing
[1:57:47] Speaker 14: terrible things whatever they're doing.
[1:57:50] Speaker 1: Because it's subjective. Like so when I say that something
[1:57:52] Speaker 1: is good or bad, that, like everyone here knows that
[1:57:55] Speaker 1: I'm talking subjectively not objectively.
[1:57:58] Speaker 14: Okay, So then even if the Bible advocates for something
[1:58:01] Speaker 14: you subjectively think is wrong, which is I mean when
[1:58:05] Speaker 14: I watch your stream, which is mainly what you try to.
[1:58:07] Speaker 6: Do, right, Yeah, how do we Yeah.
[1:58:11] Speaker 1: So let me a flesh, let me put some flesh
[1:58:14] Speaker 1: on those bones. So what happens with these moral arguments
[1:58:17] Speaker 1: like Friday Night I did the God is Not Good debate,
[1:58:21] Speaker 1: which comes up with a lot of moral arguments. And
[1:58:24] Speaker 1: so when people will get in front of me and say, well,
[1:58:27] Speaker 1: slavery was okay, grape was okay, different things like that,
[1:58:31] Speaker 1: and then I say you're sick. I'm not saying that
[1:58:34] Speaker 1: you're sick because I have an objective moral code that
[1:58:38] Speaker 1: tells me that you're sick. I'm saying you're sick because
[1:58:40] Speaker 1: I have a subjective moral code that believes that it
[1:58:44] Speaker 1: just happens to be that most people agree with me,
[1:58:49] Speaker 1: which means I get to publicly shame people for holding
[1:58:52] Speaker 1: positions that I think are dangerous.
[1:58:55] Speaker 14: Okay, so this is more like popular belief. Then if
[1:58:59] Speaker 14: and if we go back in history, I could also
[1:59:01] Speaker 14: argue a popular belief.
[1:59:03] Speaker 2: Was mainly God.
[1:59:04] Speaker 14: And even today we have thirty percent religious in Christianity.
[1:59:09] Speaker 14: We have more than that in Islam. We have more
[1:59:15] Speaker 14: way more of the world is religious than not. First
[1:59:17] Speaker 14: of all, and all and at least Christianity and Islam
[1:59:21] Speaker 14: they're rooted in the same ideas, I mean, not rooting
[1:59:25] Speaker 14: the same idea's rooting the same history.
[1:59:27] Speaker 1: Right, And because morals are subjective, that means I have
[1:59:31] Speaker 1: my own opinions. I'm allowed to have the opinion that
[1:59:35] Speaker 1: I think the Bible was wrong when it endures slavery,
[1:59:38] Speaker 1: and if somebody disagrees with me, I'm also allowed to
[1:59:42] Speaker 1: publicly shame them. But that doesn't mean I'm appealing to
[1:59:45] Speaker 1: an objective moral code. There's no objective moral code.
[1:59:49] Speaker 14: Yes, yes, so, I mean I came here seeing you
[1:59:54] Speaker 14: said God is imaginary, but it's again, it's within our heads,
[1:59:58] Speaker 14: and your realities within your heads as well. So how
[2:00:05] Speaker 14: can you say it's imaginary when it's subjectively it is
[2:00:09] Speaker 14: indeed real to me, and it exists to me.
[2:00:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's in your head. So when something is imaginary,
[2:00:16] Speaker 1: that means it's it's in your imagination. It's in your head. Now,
[2:00:19] Speaker 1: if you can demonstrate God to exist outside of your imagination,
[2:00:23] Speaker 1: then my claim would be wrong.
[2:00:25] Speaker 14: Yeah, but then everything is imaginary then because it's within
[2:00:29] Speaker 14: your head.
[2:00:30] Speaker 1: No, no, no, because we can demonstrate that this is
[2:00:33] Speaker 1: also outside of my head. My pen is outside of
[2:00:36] Speaker 1: my head.
[2:00:37] Speaker 14: Okay, you have five cents at least to perceived the
[2:00:40] Speaker 14: outside world and you can see, you can feel that,
[2:00:45] Speaker 14: you might hear it move, but that comes back to
[2:00:48] Speaker 14: your head and you're at least your conscious experience. You
[2:00:52] Speaker 14: can't tell if that's objective. It's still your subjective experience.
[2:00:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, you're just gonna do the whole
[2:00:58] Speaker 1: brain in the VAT argument. But the problem with the
[2:01:00] Speaker 1: brain of the vat argument is you have the same problem, right, So, like,
[2:01:05] Speaker 1: if you're just saying like, no one can know for
[2:01:07] Speaker 1: sure if we're not just a brain of the vat,
[2:01:09] Speaker 1: that's cool. But the fact matter is you don't operate
[2:01:12] Speaker 1: your life on that assumption, and neither do I. So
[2:01:15] Speaker 1: it's not really a useful argument.
[2:01:20] Speaker 2: Like it.
[2:01:21] Speaker 1: In order to get through life, we have to operate
[2:01:23] Speaker 1: as though that that is not the case.
[2:01:27] Speaker 6: Whose life.
[2:01:28] Speaker 14: I don't understand which life you're talking about, my life
[2:01:30] Speaker 14: or your subjective life.
[2:01:32] Speaker 1: No, the life that you and I are living, like,
[2:01:34] Speaker 1: you would not be going through life the same way
[2:01:36] Speaker 1: if you earnestly believed that you were just a brain
[2:01:39] Speaker 1: in a vat. Right, So we live our lives with
[2:01:42] Speaker 1: the axiom that we're not brains in vats.
[2:01:46] Speaker 14: No, that's not what I believe. I I believe I
[2:01:50] Speaker 14: don't know what reality is. So if I believe in God,
[2:01:54] Speaker 14: and if I if I choose to make that my reality,
[2:01:57] Speaker 14: that's no different from you make anything else. Youre reality end.
[2:02:01] Speaker 14: And I like to add that even if it's in
[2:02:03] Speaker 14: my brain and if it's imaginary, it's still real because
[2:02:06] Speaker 14: it's real to me.
[2:02:08] Speaker 1: Well, it's real to you, but it's not real to me.
[2:02:11] Speaker 14: Okay, So then it's just this is I feel like
[2:02:13] Speaker 14: this sansation is more just about opinions on popular matter.
[2:02:17] Speaker 1: It would be subjectively real, which means it would be imaginary,
[2:02:20] Speaker 1: which is my claim.
[2:02:25] Speaker 14: Okay, and I guess your reality is also subjective real, then.
[2:02:30] Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody's I guess everybody's reality is subjective. We're the
[2:02:33] Speaker 1: only ones that can experience it. But it does happen
[2:02:36] Speaker 1: to be that we can corroborate things, right, So like
[2:02:39] Speaker 1: I can. I can drive by seven eleven and say, hey,
[2:02:42] Speaker 1: the lights are on at the seven eleven, and then
[2:02:44] Speaker 1: somebody else can drive by the seven eleven and say, hey,
[2:02:47] Speaker 1: the lights are on at the seven eleven. But like
[2:02:49] Speaker 1: when when forty thousand people drive by and say that
[2:02:52] Speaker 1: the lights are on at the seven eleven. At that point,
[2:02:55] Speaker 1: we have a pretty good case to say, Hey, shit,
[2:02:57] Speaker 1: I think the lights are on at seven eleven.
[2:03:00] Speaker 14: Yeah, so I've heard this argument before, but you could
[2:03:05] Speaker 14: have I made it up on the spot. No, no, no,
[2:03:09] Speaker 14: I've heard something similar.
[2:03:11] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[2:03:11] Speaker 14: So you have those forty thousand people, but them telling
[2:03:15] Speaker 14: you is your perceived subject, like you perceived that. That
[2:03:20] Speaker 14: means you subjectively understood that fair enough. Don't know what
[2:03:23] Speaker 14: they could be.
[2:03:24] Speaker 1: You're you're You're not wrong. It could be that I
[2:03:27] Speaker 1: imagined all forty thousand of those people. Yes, okay, so
[2:03:32] Speaker 1: my experience is subjective, but I'm okay with that. But
[2:03:37] Speaker 1: my subjective experience doesn't include.
[2:03:39] Speaker 14: A God, okay, And that means your subjective experience and
[2:03:45] Speaker 14: all your beliefs are also imaginary as well as my
[2:03:47] Speaker 14: gout And it's all just imaginary anyway. So why would
[2:03:53] Speaker 14: you say, why would you come here specifically to say
[2:03:55] Speaker 14: God is imaginary? Why don't you come here to say
[2:03:57] Speaker 14: maybe your phone is imaginary or we are all imaginary?
[2:04:02] Speaker 1: Because we have like an axiom which is that we
[2:04:07] Speaker 1: are not all imaginary, that we all actually do exist. Right, So,
[2:04:11] Speaker 1: as I said before, like if you're just gonna go
[2:04:14] Speaker 1: with like a really dumb argument on being brains in
[2:04:16] Speaker 1: a vat like, congratulations, you you've got the same problem
[2:04:20] Speaker 1: I do. But we don't operate on that axiom. We
[2:04:23] Speaker 1: operate on the axiom that there is an objective world
[2:04:26] Speaker 1: and that we're living in that objective world. So if
[2:04:32] Speaker 1: if we are living in an objective world, then we
[2:04:35] Speaker 1: have to determine what is actually in that objective world
[2:04:39] Speaker 1: and in the world that I think that we are
[2:04:42] Speaker 1: all experiencing. I don't see a reason to believe that
[2:04:44] Speaker 1: there's a god in that world.
[2:04:47] Speaker 14: Okay, So from what I understood you said is that
[2:04:50] Speaker 14: you're assuming that we're an objective world. Well again, are
[2:04:54] Speaker 14: you people to decide if they want to assume that
[2:04:56] Speaker 14: and what their objective world is.
[2:04:57] Speaker 1: But that's what I'm saying. All of us are operat
[2:05:00] Speaker 1: on the axiom that we're living in a real world,
[2:05:04] Speaker 1: like there is a reality in which we all exist.
[2:05:06] Speaker 14: Right, so, and that reality is our own reality or
[2:05:10] Speaker 14: subjective we're operating of the on the objective on that
[2:05:14] Speaker 14: that is our own reality anyways.
[2:05:17] Speaker 1: Right, Yes, but we're all operating on the idea that
[2:05:20] Speaker 1: there is a legitimate world, like the tangible material world
[2:05:24] Speaker 1: that we live in.
[2:05:29] Speaker 5: I would you.
[2:05:29] Speaker 14: I'd like to ask you, who's this all?
[2:05:31] Speaker 2: Who is all of us?
[2:05:33] Speaker 1: Everybody that is in this room right now is operating
[2:05:36] Speaker 1: on the idea that we actually exist. Yes, and because
[2:05:42] Speaker 1: you wouldn't be here if you didn't, if you didn't
[2:05:44] Speaker 1: have the axiom.
[2:05:46] Speaker 14: Maybe maybe we don't know, We don't know for sure.
[2:05:49] Speaker 1: We do know for sure. If you didn't have the
[2:05:51] Speaker 1: operating parameter in your brain stating that you're a real
[2:05:55] Speaker 1: person in a real world, you wouldn't be here having
[2:05:57] Speaker 1: this discussion because it wouldn't matter if your God is real.
[2:06:00] Speaker 1: If you weren't real, then nobody cares. You wouldn't care
[2:06:03] Speaker 1: about your God being real.
[2:06:06] Speaker 2: Uh.
[2:06:07] Speaker 14: I don't think it needs to be real for my
[2:06:09] Speaker 14: imaginary for for example, what what for an imagination? It
[2:06:13] Speaker 14: doesn't need to be real for it to be real?
[2:06:17] Speaker 14: It does, no I I I mean you're kind of saying.
[2:06:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So my point is pretty easy, Like you
[2:06:29] Speaker 1: and I are both operating on the oxiom that we
[2:06:32] Speaker 1: really exist and that we're living in a world that
[2:06:34] Speaker 1: really exists. So like running back to the problem of
[2:06:38] Speaker 1: hard solubism doesn't further the conversation. All it does is
[2:06:42] Speaker 1: like act as a filibuster. So in the in the
[2:06:46] Speaker 1: real world that you and I both live in, that
[2:06:48] Speaker 1: you and I both operate operate in, the question is
[2:06:52] Speaker 1: in that world is there a god? And I don't
[2:06:55] Speaker 1: see any evidence to believe that the real world includes
[2:06:58] Speaker 1: a god.
[2:06:59] Speaker 14: Okay, Okay, So I know where I went wrong with this.
[2:07:02] Speaker 14: So again, you assumed in your own subjective reality that
[2:07:05] Speaker 14: there is an objectibility, although it may seem like very
[2:07:08] Speaker 14: obvious to you, that there isn't exist, that you exist,
[2:07:12] Speaker 14: although it may seem that way. That's that's the whole
[2:07:14] Speaker 14: point of this subjective reality, right.
[2:07:16] Speaker 1: You're just running right back to hard. You're running back
[2:07:19] Speaker 1: to hard solvesm You don't believe in You don't believe
[2:07:24] Speaker 1: that you're fake. You don't believe that I'm fake, you
[2:07:27] Speaker 1: don't believe that the world is fake. So running away
[2:07:30] Speaker 1: to hard solves. All you're doing is running away from
[2:07:33] Speaker 1: the actual conversation.
[2:07:36] Speaker 14: Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. I just got a
[2:07:38] Speaker 14: little heated.
[2:07:38] Speaker 1: Okay, No, it's okay. I'm just saying that the problem
[2:07:43] Speaker 1: of hard solves them. The only reason why that ever
[2:07:45] Speaker 1: comes up is when people want to run away from
[2:07:47] Speaker 1: the actual conversation. The reality is both you and I
[2:07:51] Speaker 1: are operating on the axiom that we exist and that
[2:07:54] Speaker 1: we're in a world that exists.
[2:07:56] Speaker 14: Okay, So again I disagree with that. There's no axiom
[2:08:00] Speaker 14: except that you're in your subjective reality. That's I mean,
[2:08:03] Speaker 14: that's the only axiom that I think.
[2:08:05] Speaker 1: We know that, Okay, And then you defeated your God.
[2:08:08] Speaker 14: Then how it come to a conclusion of God?
[2:08:12] Speaker 1: Because if you're a brain in a vat, so is
[2:08:14] Speaker 1: your God?
[2:08:15] Speaker 6: Yes?
[2:08:16] Speaker 14: Okay, So I would say we need to go to
[2:08:19] Speaker 14: heart culpism because when we go there, you understand, if
[2:08:22] Speaker 14: we're all anyways not experiencing the objective reality, we can
[2:08:26] Speaker 14: make our own objectibility what we want. And if I
[2:08:28] Speaker 14: choose to make that God. Nope, it doesn't mean it's
[2:08:31] Speaker 14: not imaginary. If you're a brain, imaginary to me, But
[2:08:33] Speaker 14: so is your reality.
[2:08:34] Speaker 1: If you're a brain in the vat, that it's no
[2:08:36] Speaker 1: longer objective.
[2:08:37] Speaker 4: It's subjective.
[2:08:40] Speaker 14: It's yes, my subjective bility, and so is yours.
[2:08:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, But but do you think we're brains in a vat?
[2:08:47] Speaker 14: I don't know what the reality is?
[2:08:48] Speaker 2: Who knows?
[2:08:49] Speaker 14: Again, somehowever, I perceive through my sense somehow I'm willing
[2:08:52] Speaker 14: to bet.
[2:08:53] Speaker 1: Money that you don't think that we're brains in a vat,
[2:08:56] Speaker 1: because you wouldn't be up here arguing for the existence
[2:08:59] Speaker 1: of your God if you were agnostic on the idea
[2:09:02] Speaker 1: that you could be a brain in a vat.
[2:09:06] Speaker 14: No, no, no, we don't need a purpose to do anything.
[2:09:09] Speaker 14: Things can just happen because we choose to, right. But
[2:09:11] Speaker 14: you care doesn't have to So.
[2:09:13] Speaker 1: You care about what you care about, what I think,
[2:09:16] Speaker 1: you care about, what others think, you care about your
[2:09:18] Speaker 1: idea of God. And if you were agnostic on whether
[2:09:21] Speaker 1: or not you're a brain in a vat, you wouldn't
[2:09:23] Speaker 1: actually care about these concepts. So you're not really agnostic
[2:09:26] Speaker 1: on this point. You're just using it as like a
[2:09:29] Speaker 1: rhetorical device to get out of like talking about the
[2:09:33] Speaker 1: objective world that you and I both accept as an
[2:09:36] Speaker 1: axiomatic claim.
[2:09:38] Speaker 14: I'll ask you what would a what would a world
[2:09:40] Speaker 14: for me look like?
[2:09:41] Speaker 8: Then?
[2:09:41] Speaker 14: What would I be doing? Like what walking around I mean, sorry,
[2:09:44] Speaker 14: walking around the street, just like punching random people?
[2:09:46] Speaker 6: Is that what you expect?
[2:09:47] Speaker 14: I mean, in this reality, I can still choose to
[2:09:50] Speaker 14: do anything.
[2:09:50] Speaker 1: It doesn't have to do if you're a brain a vat.
[2:09:52] Speaker 14: You mean you can't decide that it's emotional. Yes, sorry, yeah,
[2:09:55] Speaker 14: if you're If you're like, you're also interrupting me a bit.
[2:09:58] Speaker 1: No I am, I apologize.
[2:10:01] Speaker 3: Okay.
[2:10:01] Speaker 1: So, if you're actually a brain in a vat, I
[2:10:03] Speaker 1: don't think it's consistent to think that you would be
[2:10:06] Speaker 1: up here trying to defend the notion of a god,
[2:10:09] Speaker 1: because if you're a brain in a vat, you would
[2:10:11] Speaker 1: know that any notion of a god is irrelevant because
[2:10:14] Speaker 1: it's still in your head because you're a brain in
[2:10:16] Speaker 1: a vat, which means it doesn't matter if I believe
[2:10:18] Speaker 1: in your God, and it doesn't matter if you believe
[2:10:20] Speaker 1: in your God, because you're just a brain in a vat.
[2:10:25] Speaker 14: Matters to who you' that's the right question, matters to who.
[2:10:28] Speaker 1: Mattering is subjective, That's what I'm saying it if you
[2:10:32] Speaker 1: legitimately thought that you were a brain in a vat,
[2:10:35] Speaker 1: you would not care if your God.
[2:10:37] Speaker 14: Existed or if I said I don't believe you're God.
[2:10:40] Speaker 14: I mean, I never said I'm not coming to any conclusion.
[2:10:44] Speaker 14: I'm saying I don't know what the reality is. I'm
[2:10:46] Speaker 14: in my subjective reality. Anything I believe is anyways going
[2:10:50] Speaker 14: to be subjective. So I choose to believe in God,
[2:10:54] Speaker 14: and I choose to believe it. Maybe it empowers me,
[2:10:57] Speaker 14: maybe it makes me feel better about however things will,
[2:11:00] Speaker 14: I don't know, but I just choose to believe in it.
[2:11:02] Speaker 14: And it applies to you as well. You're in your
[2:11:04] Speaker 14: own subjective reality. You don't know objective reality. You choose
[2:11:08] Speaker 14: to believe your own whatever you understand, un understood from birth, whatever.
[2:11:11] Speaker 14: It's not a choice from your classes sign.
[2:11:14] Speaker 1: No one chooses to believe. You're either convinced by the
[2:11:17] Speaker 1: evidence or you're not. You're obviously convinced.
[2:11:20] Speaker 14: I'm not, and I wouldn't say that if we look
[2:11:24] Speaker 14: at how people have like acted history, They've been convinced
[2:11:28] Speaker 14: with their beliefs, but they've come to very wrong conclusions.
[2:11:31] Speaker 14: If you're gonna rely on being convinced with your beliefs,
[2:11:34] Speaker 14: I don't think that's a good way too.
[2:11:36] Speaker 1: But it's not a choice, is what I said. Like
[2:11:38] Speaker 1: believing in something is not a choice. You don't choose
[2:11:41] Speaker 1: to believe in something, Like you didn't choose to believe
[2:11:44] Speaker 1: that the sun is gonna come up tomorrow, Like you're
[2:11:46] Speaker 1: just convinced that it's gonna happen.
[2:11:52] Speaker 14: I mean, if you want to, if you want to
[2:11:54] Speaker 14: think it's that way. Again, that's your subjective.
[2:11:56] Speaker 1: No, it's just a truth of the matter.
[2:11:58] Speaker 14: Can you force yourself to because you're trying to understand
[2:12:02] Speaker 14: what you're going to do?
[2:12:03] Speaker 1: What time is it where you're at right now?
[2:12:06] Speaker 14: It's six pm?
[2:12:08] Speaker 1: Okay, so the sun is up.
[2:12:11] Speaker 5: Right?
[2:12:12] Speaker 14: Yeah barely.
[2:12:13] Speaker 1: Can you choose to believe that the sun.
[2:12:15] Speaker 3: Is not up?
[2:12:17] Speaker 6: Ah?
[2:12:19] Speaker 14: Okay? So yeah, that that that's a So basically you
[2:12:25] Speaker 14: gave me like a very obvious thing.
[2:12:26] Speaker 1: The answer is no and no.
[2:12:28] Speaker 14: No, yeah, no exactly. But I'm going to come to it.
[2:12:31] Speaker 14: So I'm still seeing it from my eyes. I'm still
[2:12:35] Speaker 14: like I can it's whatever's happening in my head. I
[2:12:38] Speaker 14: can still see if I'm seeing it from here. It's
[2:12:41] Speaker 14: my subjective experience. I don't know what the absolute reality is.
[2:12:46] Speaker 14: So I understand you.
[2:12:47] Speaker 1: Don't get to choose what you believe. You either believe
[2:12:49] Speaker 1: it or you don't.
[2:12:53] Speaker 14: Okay, So then we've come to believes. Why have we
[2:12:56] Speaker 14: come to believes?
[2:12:57] Speaker 1: Because we're convinced by claims or on convinced by claims.
[2:13:01] Speaker 1: And I'm not convinced that the God claim has any merit.
[2:13:08] Speaker 1: I didn't choose to not believe in God. I used
[2:13:10] Speaker 1: to believe in God most of my life.
[2:13:14] Speaker 14: Okay, And if you think about anybody can be convinced
[2:13:17] Speaker 14: based off any evidence. So if you agree, is psych exact?
[2:13:21] Speaker 14: Yeah exactly? So really it's again, it's just your opinion,
[2:13:27] Speaker 14: it's not.
[2:13:27] Speaker 1: I'm never going to just be I never said it
[2:13:30] Speaker 1: wasn't my opinion.
[2:13:31] Speaker 14: And people can really force themselves to believe in stuff
[2:13:35] Speaker 14: too as well, and like to make themselves.
[2:13:37] Speaker 1: Be You can't, Yes, if you can't force yourself to
[2:13:39] Speaker 1: be convinced of something, I think I think you can.
[2:13:42] Speaker 1: If you can you force yourself to believe? Can you
[2:13:45] Speaker 1: force yourself to believe that that men are attractive?
[2:13:51] Speaker 14: Wait, this is going into some other territory.
[2:13:53] Speaker 1: No, it's toff or not.
[2:13:54] Speaker 14: Let's stay away from there.
[2:13:56] Speaker 1: Can you force yourself to believe that men are attractive?
[2:14:00] Speaker 14: Can I force myself?
[2:14:03] Speaker 1: Because if it were possible, should I do it?
[2:14:05] Speaker 5: Right now?
[2:14:06] Speaker 1: That make dating way easier? I'm surrounded by dudes all
[2:14:11] Speaker 1: day long.
[2:14:13] Speaker 14: Oh yeah, So, so I'd like to sad that if
[2:14:17] Speaker 14: you want to look at it biologically let's not.
[2:14:21] Speaker 3: Let's not.
[2:14:21] Speaker 14: I'm not talking, okay, if you want to look at
[2:14:24] Speaker 14: it biologically, we don't necessarily have any likes since we
[2:14:28] Speaker 14: were born, except to survive whatever, or reproduce, you know,
[2:14:33] Speaker 14: eat to stay alive and all of that. We need
[2:14:37] Speaker 14: to do that in order to survive.
[2:14:38] Speaker 1: By call me crazy, I didn't hear an answer to
[2:14:40] Speaker 1: my question, can you force yourself to believe that men
[2:14:42] Speaker 1: are attractive?
[2:14:45] Speaker 8: Yes?
[2:14:45] Speaker 14: So that's what I'm saying.
[2:14:46] Speaker 1: Oh so you think you can every other like like,
[2:14:49] Speaker 1: go ahead and do it, like.
[2:14:50] Speaker 14: Doing something else if you like, if you like climbing trees,
[2:14:52] Speaker 14: if you like whatever. If you attractive, those things are learned.
[2:14:57] Speaker 1: Go ahead and choose to believe that I'm attractive right now.
[2:15:00] Speaker 1: Tell me I'm pretty.
[2:15:03] Speaker 14: Okay, Come on, man, what is this?
[2:15:05] Speaker 1: I'm being serious. You said you can choose to do it.
[2:15:09] Speaker 8: Now.
[2:15:09] Speaker 1: I want you to choose to do.
[2:15:10] Speaker 8: Because you're not.
[2:15:10] Speaker 14: You're not like stumping you or anything. This is just something.
[2:15:12] Speaker 3: This is getting weird now, it's.
[2:15:14] Speaker 1: Not weird at all. I won't even make you pay
[2:15:18] Speaker 1: for dinner. I think you's I think you see the
[2:15:26] Speaker 1: logical corner that you've painted yourself into you're painting yourself
[2:15:30] Speaker 1: into a logical corner where you think people can just
[2:15:33] Speaker 1: choose to believe things. That's not the way that it works.
[2:15:36] Speaker 1: You don't choose what you believe. Yeah, okay, you just
[2:15:40] Speaker 1: are consisted of something or you're not.
[2:15:42] Speaker 14: Get back right, let's take a step back. You can
[2:15:46] Speaker 14: either choose to believe what you see or or it's
[2:15:50] Speaker 14: learned throughout your lifetime. So for example, you you wan't
[2:15:53] Speaker 14: to talk about this stuff, right if you were If
[2:15:55] Speaker 14: you were born and you and your friends and many
[2:15:58] Speaker 14: of them were like men for example, right, and then
[2:16:00] Speaker 14: you got around them a lot, then you would probably
[2:16:03] Speaker 14: learn that yourself if your friends.
[2:16:05] Speaker 1: Have Oh no, I don't think some.
[2:16:08] Speaker 14: It' it's it's linked to some degree.
[2:16:10] Speaker 1: I think No, I think attraction is biological to some degree.
[2:16:14] Speaker 14: Yeah, it's biological and just learned to some degree.
[2:16:16] Speaker 4: I don't think it's learned.
[2:16:17] Speaker 1: I think it's biological basically.
[2:16:19] Speaker 14: What I'm saying. What I'm saying is that your subjective stuff,
[2:16:22] Speaker 14: your subjective emotions. You wanted to do something, We'll just do.
[2:16:25] Speaker 1: A survey right now, everyone in the comments who's attracted
[2:16:30] Speaker 1: to the same sex put put a one in the
[2:16:32] Speaker 1: comments if if you chose to be attracted to the
[2:16:37] Speaker 1: same sex or if you just were.
[2:16:40] Speaker 14: Okay, man, that's not That's not what I'm saying. Can
[2:16:43] Speaker 14: I peace?
[2:16:43] Speaker 6: You cut me off?
[2:16:44] Speaker 2: Can I peace?
[2:16:45] Speaker 6: Completed?
[2:16:49] Speaker 1: Yes, a lot of a lot of ones. I don't
[2:16:55] Speaker 1: know if I stated my question very clearly. But yeah,
[2:16:58] Speaker 1: no one's choosing to be attracted to somebody. They just are.
[2:17:03] Speaker 14: Yeah, Okay, yeah, I'm not saying that. Okay, So okay,
[2:17:06] Speaker 14: it might be biological. I'm sure, well you know other
[2:17:10] Speaker 14: things that Okay, I'm talking about other things now, other
[2:17:12] Speaker 14: things in our life.
[2:17:13] Speaker 5: I'm sure.
[2:17:14] Speaker 1: Listen. I at this point, I'm not really sure what
[2:17:16] Speaker 1: our conversation is about anymore. Like I think we've lost
[2:17:19] Speaker 1: like the forest.
[2:17:20] Speaker 5: Through the trees.
[2:17:21] Speaker 14: Can I just summarize you quickly? Yeah, what I'm trying
[2:17:24] Speaker 14: to say? All right, So what we I mean, at least,
[2:17:28] Speaker 14: what we learn our subjective experience is developed over time,
[2:17:31] Speaker 14: and it's also just there biologically. Look, yeah, fine, biologically
[2:17:36] Speaker 14: maybe you just like like men or something, or you're
[2:17:39] Speaker 14: learning math over time, you're learning science over time. These
[2:17:41] Speaker 14: things are learned over time, but they're learned because but
[2:17:44] Speaker 14: you're learning them through your brain. Or you're learning to
[2:17:47] Speaker 14: do your subjective experience. What that means is that it's
[2:17:49] Speaker 14: your belief. If it's your subjective experience, it's not going
[2:17:53] Speaker 14: to be objective. Everything you learn it's not going to
[2:17:56] Speaker 14: be subjective. I mean it's not going to be objective.
[2:17:58] Speaker 1: I never said it was.
[2:17:59] Speaker 14: You want to see Yeah, I mean that.
[2:18:04] Speaker 1: Okay, I'm beliefs are inherently subjective.
[2:18:10] Speaker 8: Yes.
[2:18:10] Speaker 1: As I said is you can't choose what you believe.
[2:18:12] Speaker 1: You either believe something or not. It doesn't matter. Does
[2:18:16] Speaker 1: it matter what the what the belief is.
[2:18:18] Speaker 14: The beliefs might be sure, they might be biological, they
[2:18:21] Speaker 14: might be learned, You might choose it, it might be
[2:18:23] Speaker 14: any of that. Well, it happens over time, and it
[2:18:26] Speaker 14: happens in your subjective reality. It's not going to be
[2:18:30] Speaker 14: in the objective reality.
[2:18:31] Speaker 5: I'm sure.
[2:18:31] Speaker 1: Okay, well listen to so, dear. I gotta move on
[2:18:33] Speaker 1: to the next guest, but I appreciate you coming up. Okay,
[2:18:36] Speaker 1: all right, have it going? Oh he's nice enough. He
[2:18:43] Speaker 1: sounded young. It's hard to tell. Let me grab a
[2:18:47] Speaker 1: couple super chats. Marcus says, less collar should here. Police
[2:18:51] Speaker 1: be upon you soon? Yeah, I do. I'm surprised by
[2:18:58] Speaker 1: the amount of guests I get on here that don't
[2:19:01] Speaker 1: say peace be upon him, because I kind of thought
[2:19:03] Speaker 1: that was mandatory. A salty toad, thank you so much
[2:19:06] Speaker 1: for the ten hour supertest says there are so many
[2:19:08] Speaker 1: examples of how adult men doing anything the children harms them.
[2:19:11] Speaker 1: I can't listen to anyone who says it's good or okay.
[2:19:14] Speaker 1: I'm with you there, even if you just want to
[2:19:17] Speaker 1: stick to the science aspect and ignore the moral aspect.
[2:19:22] Speaker 1: Like we know that engaging in that type of behavior
[2:19:27] Speaker 1: is damaging to the children. We know that that that
[2:19:30] Speaker 1: is the case. There's been a lot of studies on this.
[2:19:33] Speaker 1: And Cora Robinson, thank you so much for the twenty
[2:19:36] Speaker 1: hours over cash app big w Cora Robinson, I really
[2:19:40] Speaker 1: appreciate that. Good to see you tonight. And then Evan says,
[2:19:45] Speaker 1: they sound so sad when they say they're Christian.
[2:19:48] Speaker 3: I know.
[2:19:50] Speaker 1: It's hard to come into this live stream being a Christian.
[2:19:52] Speaker 4: I get that.
[2:19:54] Speaker 1: And doctor Joe, thank you so much for the three
[2:19:57] Speaker 1: hours of Avenmo says, you can have will and force.
[2:20:01] Speaker 1: I'm sorry, let me make sure I'm reading this correctly.
[2:20:03] Speaker 1: She says, you can have will and force yourself to
[2:20:07] Speaker 1: seek data that supports your view and disputes the opposite,
[2:20:11] Speaker 1: and you are Yeah, I actually agree. So so like
[2:20:15] Speaker 1: you can force yourself to study something that would lead
[2:20:19] Speaker 1: you to come to a different conclusion than what you're
[2:20:21] Speaker 1: already at. But at the end of the day, you're
[2:20:24] Speaker 1: either believing the data or you're not, you know what
[2:20:27] Speaker 1: I mean. And Thrion thank you so much for the supertest,
[2:20:30] Speaker 1: says deep dive Islam stream with ex Muslims would be awesome.
[2:20:33] Speaker 1: I agree. Actually, you know, I need to study the
[2:20:37] Speaker 1: Koran so I can do it more in depth. I'm
[2:20:39] Speaker 1: working on it. I am working on it. And Pharaoh
[2:20:42] Speaker 1: thank you for the six ninety nine says, let's not
[2:20:44] Speaker 1: let Muslims get away with calling nine year olds women.
[2:20:47] Speaker 1: Oh shit, that's a good point. I need to police
[2:20:49] Speaker 1: that language. Says they are children, correct them every time
[2:20:53] Speaker 1: they say it, and make them say child. You know
[2:20:55] Speaker 1: what I'm gonna do that. I'm glad you mentioned that.
[2:20:58] Speaker 1: That's the right move. That's the right move. And Nolan,
[2:21:02] Speaker 1: thank you for the super chat says thanks for great entertainment. Well, Nolan,
[2:21:05] Speaker 1: thank you so much for supporting the channel. And you
[2:21:08] Speaker 1: know we're gonna keep doing our thing over here. You
[2:21:10] Speaker 1: know what I mean, We're gonna keep on spitting facts.
[2:21:14] Speaker 1: Arc Lloyd, thank you for the six sixty six. Hail
[2:21:17] Speaker 1: Nero says, why is the caller wasting his time talking
[2:21:20] Speaker 1: to someone he she it believes his imaginary That was
[2:21:24] Speaker 1: kind of the what I was trying to say. If
[2:21:26] Speaker 1: they legitimately believed at this talking point, then they wouldn't
[2:21:29] Speaker 1: be up here talking to me. If you really are
[2:21:32] Speaker 1: agnostic on whether or not you're a brain in the vat,
[2:21:34] Speaker 1: you wouldn't care about this conversation. And Tyler Cherry, thank
[2:21:37] Speaker 1: you so much for the five dollars, super thanks. I
[2:21:39] Speaker 1: really appreciate that. All right, let me get our next
[2:21:42] Speaker 1: one in the in the box. We're gonna try to
[2:21:53] Speaker 1: get only biblical videos. How you doing?
[2:21:55] Speaker 8: Biblical?
[2:21:59] Speaker 5: Good? Good?
[2:22:00] Speaker 1: Biblical? Are you at least eighteen? And are you a believer?
[2:22:05] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[2:22:06] Speaker 5: Cool?
[2:22:07] Speaker 1: And which God do you believe in?
[2:22:11] Speaker 9: Me?
[2:22:13] Speaker 5: Oh?
[2:22:13] Speaker 1: Shit, you're God?
[2:22:16] Speaker 9: No?
[2:22:16] Speaker 5: Are you asking me?
[2:22:17] Speaker 8: Yeah?
[2:22:17] Speaker 1: I said, which God do you believe in? Obviously I'm
[2:22:19] Speaker 1: not asking me.
[2:22:22] Speaker 5: I'm Christian? Right right?
[2:22:24] Speaker 3: Okay?
[2:22:24] Speaker 5: Cool?
[2:22:25] Speaker 1: So what would be the most convincing evidence or argument
[2:22:27] Speaker 1: for why the Christian God is.
[2:22:28] Speaker 5: Really just reality itself, the universe.
[2:22:34] Speaker 1: Sure, can you elaborate.
[2:22:36] Speaker 5: Just the existence just that we're here?
[2:22:39] Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree that we're here. I'm trying to figure
[2:22:41] Speaker 1: out what that has to do with God.
[2:22:44] Speaker 5: It's just i logical for me to think time is
[2:22:47] Speaker 5: eternally infinite or the universe is just here with an
[2:22:50] Speaker 5: infinite number of energy in atoms?
[2:22:53] Speaker 1: Why is that illogical?
[2:22:54] Speaker 5: Logical?
[2:22:57] Speaker 6: It just speaks for itself.
[2:23:00] Speaker 5: No, it's just illogical.
[2:23:01] Speaker 1: Well, I get to say, I just know that it's
[2:23:03] Speaker 1: illogical for God to exist, and then.
[2:23:06] Speaker 5: That is a But then you would have to say
[2:23:08] Speaker 5: the universe is just here from nothing, which is illogical.
[2:23:11] Speaker 1: Oh no, I don't believe the universe. I don't believe
[2:23:13] Speaker 1: there was ever nothing. Sorry, I don't believe there was
[2:23:17] Speaker 1: ever nothing. Why would I believe that?
[2:23:20] Speaker 3: No?
[2:23:20] Speaker 5: No, that it just is just here from nothing? No,
[2:23:24] Speaker 5: cause just exists.
[2:23:25] Speaker 1: Yeah, eternally it's always existed. Yep, an infinite chain of causes.
[2:23:29] Speaker 1: What's problem with that?
[2:23:30] Speaker 5: But then we wouldn't so like, what about the Big Bang?
[2:23:34] Speaker 5: What about it? Sorry, I'm so cold because I'm in
[2:23:37] Speaker 5: my car.
[2:23:37] Speaker 1: No, I get it, don't worry. It's cold where I'm
[2:23:40] Speaker 1: at too. The Big Bang is not the beginning of
[2:23:44] Speaker 1: all things, like there wasn't nothing before the Big Bang.
[2:23:49] Speaker 5: Yeah, but there would be infinite time backwards. So we
[2:23:52] Speaker 5: wouldn't even get to that Big Bang because yeah, we
[2:23:54] Speaker 5: wouldn't backwards. No you would. We can't because there's so
[2:23:57] Speaker 5: much more backwards. We wouldn't even get to that point.
[2:23:59] Speaker 1: No, that's not true. Every point on the timeline is
[2:24:03] Speaker 1: a finite point.
[2:24:03] Speaker 3: It is.
[2:24:05] Speaker 1: You can't just say it's true every point on the
[2:24:07] Speaker 1: time line. You would be any two point on the
[2:24:10] Speaker 1: timeline has a finite amount of distance between them.
[2:24:14] Speaker 5: No, but that's not like I forget the exact word.
[2:24:17] Speaker 5: That argument is a theory. It's not like reality is infinite.
[2:24:23] Speaker 5: You would have an infinite I know, get to the
[2:24:26] Speaker 5: I agree, yes you would. How if we're infinitely backwards
[2:24:31] Speaker 5: because it's.
[2:24:32] Speaker 1: Because time moves, because time moves in one direction.
[2:24:36] Speaker 5: Yes, so that means infinitely backwards. You wouldn't even get
[2:24:39] Speaker 5: to that point.
[2:24:39] Speaker 1: Yes you would.
[2:24:42] Speaker 5: All right, let's drop it because it's not getting anywhere.
[2:24:45] Speaker 5: But wow, it's like you're forcing yourself to believe that.
[2:24:47] Speaker 1: I'm not forcing myself to believe it. You name the
[2:24:50] Speaker 1: contradiction with an eternal past? Where is it?
[2:24:54] Speaker 5: I just explained it.
[2:24:56] Speaker 1: You didn't explain it. You just made a claim.
[2:24:58] Speaker 4: You said you would an infinite amount.
[2:25:00] Speaker 1: You said you wouldn't.
[2:25:01] Speaker 5: We wouldn't reach them from what?
[2:25:02] Speaker 1: Reach it from what?
[2:25:05] Speaker 5: That's my point. It's internally backwards. You wouldn't even reach it.
[2:25:08] Speaker 1: Can you count? Can you count negatively forever?
[2:25:12] Speaker 3: No? No?
[2:25:12] Speaker 5: This argument hold on?
[2:25:15] Speaker 1: I know real, it is reality. Can you count negative forever?
[2:25:21] Speaker 3: No?
[2:25:21] Speaker 5: But this is just will you ever actually count?
[2:25:23] Speaker 1: Will you ever run out of negative numbers?
[2:25:27] Speaker 5: Again? This isn't a reality argument.
[2:25:29] Speaker 1: It's almost like I asked you a question, would you
[2:25:32] Speaker 1: ever run out of numbers?
[2:25:38] Speaker 5: God, you're not using the right category.
[2:25:41] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[2:25:41] Speaker 1: I did not answer my questions too, if I was
[2:25:44] Speaker 1: a coward.
[2:25:46] Speaker 5: Why are you getting offended? Because you know I'm right.
[2:25:49] Speaker 1: I'm not offended. I want you to answer my question.
[2:25:52] Speaker 1: It's called having an honest dialogue. When you ask me questions,
[2:25:56] Speaker 1: I answer them. When you when I ask you questions,
[2:25:59] Speaker 1: you answer them. Can you count backwards forever?
[2:26:04] Speaker 5: Hypothetically?
[2:26:05] Speaker 1: Sure, yes you can. There's no no, Okay, there's no contradiction. Okay,
[2:26:11] Speaker 1: is there any reason why time can't go back forever.
[2:26:14] Speaker 1: Time is an infinite progression. Why can it not have
[2:26:17] Speaker 1: a no start point?
[2:26:21] Speaker 5: Because it's illogical. There would have be an internal past.
[2:26:23] Speaker 5: You wouldn't reach the Tell me the contradiction, Show me
[2:26:27] Speaker 5: the contradiction in your theory.
[2:26:29] Speaker 1: Yes, that's what I'm asking for. Give me the P
[2:26:31] Speaker 1: and not P.
[2:26:34] Speaker 5: I literally just said it.
[2:26:35] Speaker 1: If you didn't, you just said a dumb claim. You
[2:26:37] Speaker 1: haven't given me the contradiction yet. You just said if
[2:26:40] Speaker 1: there's an infinite past, you wouldn't get to whatever event
[2:26:45] Speaker 1: you can call it the Big Bang, Yes, you would.
[2:26:47] Speaker 1: Why would you not get Why would you not get there?
[2:26:50] Speaker 5: Because there's an infinite passed backwards? So what every time
[2:26:53] Speaker 5: you travel forward, you're going backwards?
[2:26:55] Speaker 1: No, you're not.
[2:26:55] Speaker 5: Infinitely you're not.
[2:26:56] Speaker 1: You're going forward. Time only goes back in the forward direction.
[2:27:00] Speaker 5: Yeah, but you're like, I can't say starting, but you
[2:27:04] Speaker 5: would be back internally so you would never reach it.
[2:27:06] Speaker 1: You would, yes, because every point in time is not infinite.
[2:27:10] Speaker 1: Every point in time is a finite point on the timeline,
[2:27:14] Speaker 1: which means.
[2:27:14] Speaker 5: You wouldn't reach. If there's eternal pass you would reach.
[2:27:18] Speaker 1: You absolutely would reach, because eternal pass that brain is dead.
[2:27:23] Speaker 1: The maternal past. Eternal past is not a point on
[2:27:27] Speaker 1: the timeline. That's the problem. You keep you keep talking
[2:27:30] Speaker 1: about eternal pass like eternal past is a stationary point
[2:27:33] Speaker 1: on the timeline.
[2:27:34] Speaker 8: It's not.
[2:27:37] Speaker 5: No, No, the present is stationary and your big bang
[2:27:39] Speaker 5: is stationary. We would never reach it.
[2:27:41] Speaker 1: You would forget because time always progresses in one direction.
[2:27:47] Speaker 5: Okay, it's a stupid argument.
[2:27:49] Speaker 1: It's not a stupid argument. It's not logical at all.
[2:27:54] Speaker 1: You you failed to point out the contradiction in the argument.
[2:27:58] Speaker 5: Sure.
[2:27:59] Speaker 1: Cool, So let's talk about your your next argument? Why
[2:28:03] Speaker 1: is your God real?
[2:28:07] Speaker 5: Well, I already proved it. But why Christians?
[2:28:09] Speaker 1: You certainly didn't prove it. You've made it one in particular,
[2:28:13] Speaker 1: you've made one claim about time has nothing to do
[2:28:15] Speaker 1: with God.
[2:28:17] Speaker 5: Sorry, I can't talk loud, but I feel like whisper
[2:28:21] Speaker 5: a little but so right, So would be the why
[2:28:25] Speaker 5: Christianity in particular?
[2:28:27] Speaker 1: I'd love it. Let's talk about why Christianity is true?
[2:28:29] Speaker 5: Okay, because we can say there's a God. I already
[2:28:32] Speaker 5: proved it, but then it.
[2:28:32] Speaker 4: Could be he certainly didn't prove.
[2:28:38] Speaker 5: So why Christianity would be true? Is I can name
[2:28:42] Speaker 5: like a bunch of scholars who agree that the disciples
[2:28:46] Speaker 5: truly believed to see Jesus alive.
[2:28:48] Speaker 1: And I can name, I'm sure a bunch of scholars
[2:28:50] Speaker 1: that disagree with that. What would be the evidence that
[2:28:53] Speaker 1: the testimony in the What would be the evidence? Let
[2:28:56] Speaker 1: me say, what would be the evidence? I don't know
[2:29:00] Speaker 1: if you're really confused about how things work here, But
[2:29:03] Speaker 1: as it turns out, it's my live stream, and I'm
[2:29:05] Speaker 1: allowed to ask you questions if I want to. So
[2:29:07] Speaker 1: I'm asking you what would be the evidence that the
[2:29:10] Speaker 1: claims of the Gospels are true?
[2:29:15] Speaker 9: No?
[2:29:16] Speaker 5: Let me Do you know your friend Derek from myth vision?
[2:29:19] Speaker 8: Yeah?
[2:29:19] Speaker 1: What about him?
[2:29:21] Speaker 5: He had a woman on his thing who also agrees
[2:29:24] Speaker 5: that disciples believe to see Jesus alive.
[2:29:27] Speaker 1: I'm sure somebody.
[2:29:27] Speaker 5: Argument Erica Freedokman something like that. Her name. So what
[2:29:36] Speaker 5: that your own scholars?
[2:29:38] Speaker 1: My own scholars. I don't have scholars, Yes, your top scholars.
[2:29:42] Speaker 1: There's no such thing as top eightheist scholars. We don't
[2:29:45] Speaker 1: have a collective of.
[2:29:46] Speaker 5: Scholars, your most famous ones.
[2:29:48] Speaker 1: We don't have most famous scholars.
[2:29:51] Speaker 5: Yes, you do, the most well known ones appearing on
[2:29:54] Speaker 5: your channels.
[2:29:54] Speaker 1: Yes, there are some that are popular in our circles. Yeah,
[2:29:59] Speaker 1: but there's such thing is like as like atheist scholars
[2:30:03] Speaker 1: that like one scholar is somehow you know better than
[2:30:07] Speaker 1: another scholar, like you have to take the Well, I'm
[2:30:11] Speaker 1: sure he did. But listen to what I'm saying.
[2:30:13] Speaker 5: He agrees with us, she agrees, I'm.
[2:30:16] Speaker 1: Sure she does, and some of them don't. So it
[2:30:19] Speaker 1: does it matter to me?
[2:30:21] Speaker 5: So my point is, scholars are against you. They're not.
[2:30:24] Speaker 5: They're not. You didn't.
[2:30:25] Speaker 1: They're not my scholars. They don't belong to me. They
[2:30:30] Speaker 1: don't they don't work for me. They're not my scholars.
[2:30:35] Speaker 8: I'm not asking you.
[2:30:36] Speaker 1: I'm not asking you what one scholar believed. I'm asking
[2:30:39] Speaker 1: you what is the what is Greg Luterman, Okay, we'll
[2:30:43] Speaker 1: try this again. I don't care what scholars you can name.
[2:30:45] Speaker 1: I'm asking you, what is the evidence that Jesus was
[2:30:49] Speaker 1: the Messiah? Because that's the claim.
[2:30:52] Speaker 5: What was in my claim? It was the resurrection. Don't
[2:30:54] Speaker 5: change it because he lost lost, I lost.
[2:30:57] Speaker 1: Okay, Well, give me the evidence that he resurrected.
[2:31:00] Speaker 5: That your own scholars were experts.
[2:31:02] Speaker 6: That's free.
[2:31:02] Speaker 1: That's not evidence that they don't agree.
[2:31:04] Speaker 4: No, they don't they.
[2:31:08] Speaker 1: They literally, they literally don't believe he resurrected, or else
[2:31:12] Speaker 1: they'd be Christians.
[2:31:14] Speaker 3: No.
[2:31:15] Speaker 5: No, their only excuse is there's a hallucination, which is regarded.
[2:31:18] Speaker 1: That's not their only excuse. No, it doesn't prove that
[2:31:23] Speaker 1: if you actually looked at.
[2:31:24] Speaker 5: The best excuse they can come up with, it was
[2:31:26] Speaker 5: a mass hallucination.
[2:31:27] Speaker 1: That's the if you actually listen to the bulk of
[2:31:29] Speaker 1: the scholarship, there's about a dozen ways that they believe that.
[2:31:33] Speaker 1: The Yeah, i'd run too.
[2:31:35] Speaker 8: Yeah, there you go.
[2:31:38] Speaker 1: He's wanted to get up and preach about scholars he
[2:31:40] Speaker 1: doesn't know about. Okay, well come back when you your
[2:31:44] Speaker 1: test is dropping, you're ready to have an adult conversation.
[2:31:49] Speaker 1: Master Sheeter says, I thought brain in the that guy
[2:31:52] Speaker 1: was the dumbest callar. But I stand corrected. Yeah, you
[2:31:55] Speaker 1: do stand corrected. But I think we just set the
[2:31:57] Speaker 1: bar at a new low. And you're right, that was weird.
[2:32:02] Speaker 1: I'll never understand people who get up here thinking that
[2:32:06] Speaker 1: their argument is true because they hurt a scholar that
[2:32:09] Speaker 1: agreed with their position. Tyler Cherry, thank you so much
[2:32:12] Speaker 1: for the five dollar super Thanks. I really appreciate that
[2:32:15] Speaker 1: and Crispin Chunky, thank you for the handhearts so many
[2:32:19] Speaker 1: people on TikTok gifting, Ben, thank you so much for
[2:32:23] Speaker 1: the paint. And Dexter, thank you for the hearts. I
[2:32:26] Speaker 1: really appreciate that. And Lavender and James and JJ and
[2:32:30] Speaker 1: Rick and Styx and Lou thank you so much, guys
[2:32:34] Speaker 1: for supporting the stream. Let me get our next guest
[2:32:36] Speaker 1: in here and we'll keep the We'll keep the stream moving,
[2:32:42] Speaker 1: all right, you nineteen has been waiting for a while.
[2:32:45] Speaker 1: We'll see if they can still connect. How you doing, nineteen?
[2:32:49] Speaker 8: Hi? How are you good?
[2:32:52] Speaker 5: Are you doing.
[2:32:54] Speaker 8: I'm good, I'm doing good. I'm doing good. For your
[2:32:59] Speaker 8: next question, I'm above eighteen, I'm above thirty, so don't
[2:33:04] Speaker 8: worry about that.
[2:33:06] Speaker 3: Cool.
[2:33:07] Speaker 1: So what religion do you believe?
[2:33:10] Speaker 8: He Islam sun Islam to be exact from the Maliki
[2:33:15] Speaker 8: school of thought.
[2:33:16] Speaker 4: Cool.
[2:33:16] Speaker 1: So, what would be the most convincing argument or evidence
[2:33:20] Speaker 1: for why your God is real?
[2:33:24] Speaker 8: Well, well, there are several. Actually, the lugression theory meaning
[2:33:32] Speaker 8: that infrat regression is simply impossible according to Aristotle.
[2:33:43] Speaker 1: No, well, the Greeks actually don't mean why the Greeks
[2:33:49] Speaker 1: didn't have a unified idea on time, but a number
[2:33:52] Speaker 1: of them believed in an infinite time in the past
[2:33:54] Speaker 1: and the future. But also just appealing to Aristotle is
[2:33:58] Speaker 1: an actual argument, asking you to provide the actual argument.
[2:34:06] Speaker 8: Goment So, so the fine tuning of the of the
[2:34:09] Speaker 8: of the of the universe.
[2:34:10] Speaker 1: Okay, So your next argument is.
[2:34:12] Speaker 8: Fine fine tuning.
[2:34:14] Speaker 4: Okay, yes, fine tuning in everything fine.
[2:34:16] Speaker 8: To fine tuning. What do you mean by that? If
[2:34:20] Speaker 8: you don't mind me asking.
[2:34:22] Speaker 1: Was everything in this I actually do think what was
[2:34:26] Speaker 1: our was our planet fine tuned?
[2:34:33] Speaker 5: Well?
[2:34:33] Speaker 8: Does seem so? Yes, because the few bodies fine tuned,
[2:34:40] Speaker 8: fine tuned in in What since do you mean by that?
[2:34:42] Speaker 1: Well, you're the one bringing up fine tuning. I'm asking
[2:34:44] Speaker 1: you our humans finally tuned as well?
[2:34:50] Speaker 8: Well, that depends on what you Well, it depends on
[2:34:54] Speaker 8: your definition of fine tuning.
[2:34:55] Speaker 5: Use your defin.
[2:35:00] Speaker 8: Oh, look, if you if you, if you would ask
[2:35:04] Speaker 8: me fine tuning is based according to the Islamic theology
[2:35:12] Speaker 8: of faith and uh. But by that I mean that
[2:35:18] Speaker 8: fine tuning is according to God's uh uh previous previous nation.
[2:35:26] Speaker 1: Yes, right, So my question was whether or not the
[2:35:29] Speaker 1: humans or finally tuned. Did God finally tuned human biology.
[2:35:35] Speaker 8: Well, of course not for avery. Uh. Let's say uh,
[2:35:42] Speaker 8: because now you're going to into an even bigger argument
[2:35:46] Speaker 8: than just fine tuning. But I will try to reply
[2:35:50] Speaker 8: to you. The best I can fine tuning for human beings,
[2:35:58] Speaker 8: uh is to the to the decree of God. That's
[2:36:02] Speaker 8: what I believe in. Right.
[2:36:04] Speaker 1: I didn't hear yes or no? Did God finally tune
[2:36:07] Speaker 1: human biology?
[2:36:12] Speaker 8: Not necessarily every question has to be yes or no answer.
[2:36:15] Speaker 8: But let's say yes, okay.
[2:36:18] Speaker 1: I mean you can say I don't know if that's
[2:36:20] Speaker 1: the answer.
[2:36:22] Speaker 8: No, No, I will say yes, okay. So God, because
[2:36:26] Speaker 8: because God.
[2:36:27] Speaker 1: The God designed human beings, he had like a goal
[2:36:32] Speaker 1: in mind. He had like some intentionality behind it. It
[2:36:35] Speaker 1: wasn't random, right.
[2:36:38] Speaker 8: Exactly?
[2:36:39] Speaker 5: Yes you yes?
[2:36:42] Speaker 8: Cool?
[2:36:42] Speaker 1: So then why did he design humans so that babies
[2:36:45] Speaker 1: would be born with bone cancer?
[2:36:49] Speaker 8: Well that's his infant wisdom. We have nineteen nine names
[2:36:55] Speaker 8: for God in Islam, and one of them is the
[2:37:01] Speaker 8: all Wise. So to to to create a let's say
[2:37:10] Speaker 8: this this world, you would you would have to have
[2:37:19] Speaker 8: certain humans who are let's say fine tune to the
[2:37:24] Speaker 8: best of their abilities, and some who are not.
[2:37:27] Speaker 1: Would you prefer to live in a word, burned with
[2:37:30] Speaker 1: bone cancer.
[2:37:34] Speaker 8: Would I prefer that? Of course? Would I prefer that
[2:37:37] Speaker 8: as a human beings, as a human being, of course yes.
[2:37:41] Speaker 1: Why would you prefer that world as opposed to this world?
[2:37:46] Speaker 8: Well, I would prefer that because I'm a human being
[2:37:50] Speaker 8: with feelings. But I do understand that according to my religion,
[2:37:55] Speaker 8: this world is a test. This is a test. He's
[2:38:00] Speaker 8: not supposed to be easy. It's not supposed to be fair.
[2:38:05] Speaker 1: Okay, so supposed to be The baby is dying of
[2:38:08] Speaker 1: bone cancer or collateral damage.
[2:38:13] Speaker 8: Excuse me, bone cancer of clateral damage you elaborate.
[2:38:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, the babies that your God designed to get bone cancer,
[2:38:24] Speaker 1: that's just collateral damage. So that he can test his people.
[2:38:30] Speaker 8: Well, he tests parents, he tests He tests several several
[2:38:37] Speaker 8: types of people.
[2:38:37] Speaker 1: If you look at the scriptures, capable, I think people
[2:38:41] Speaker 1: without giving their kids bone cancer.
[2:38:45] Speaker 8: Is he capable of testing people without treating their kids
[2:38:52] Speaker 8: with bone cancer? Of course he is capable. Why none?
[2:39:01] Speaker 8: Please just me finished.
[2:39:03] Speaker 1: I want you to listen to what discollistro you mouth.
[2:39:05] Speaker 1: Don't don't move, but beyond it yet you just said
[2:39:08] Speaker 1: that the bone cancer is not necessary, but the bone
[2:39:11] Speaker 1: cancer exists, which means God, case exactly, God.
[2:39:15] Speaker 2: Called want to read? You wait to want to read
[2:39:18] Speaker 2: fifteen million for Oh really, he says, if we're beaten,
[2:39:20] Speaker 2: that you meet us in the perfect form.
[2:39:22] Speaker 1: Oh shit, let me pull it out.
[2:39:26] Speaker 8: So sorry, I didn't.
[2:39:29] Speaker 1: I don't said the is uh you said Kuran fifty
[2:39:32] Speaker 1: nine four ninety four, Oh ninety five four. Sorry I didn't.
[2:39:38] Speaker 1: I didn't hear that, right ninety five four. Yeah, it
[2:39:43] Speaker 1: says indeed, we created human beings in the best form,
[2:39:49] Speaker 1: which means that there's not a better form. So the
[2:39:52] Speaker 1: better form in which kids don't get bone cancer apparently
[2:39:56] Speaker 1: escaped God. He just didn't think about it. He had
[2:40:02] Speaker 1: a lazy morning that day.
[2:40:09] Speaker 3: No.
[2:40:09] Speaker 8: Look, the thing is, if this world was supposed to
[2:40:15] Speaker 8: be a paradise that God creates for us, then there
[2:40:20] Speaker 8: would be no test. There would be no acknowledgment of God.
[2:40:26] Speaker 1: What do you need tested for?
[2:40:28] Speaker 2: You do not need to Sorry to ignore that God.
[2:40:32] Speaker 8: Right, Sorry, Because I actually expected to be to be
[2:40:36] Speaker 8: having a conversation with me and you like you had
[2:40:39] Speaker 8: with the other guests. But I don't mind him being there.
[2:40:43] Speaker 8: I don't mind him being there, But I actually expected
[2:40:47] Speaker 8: to have one on one conversation with you, because you
[2:40:51] Speaker 8: seem to be very friendly and very intelligent.
[2:40:55] Speaker 5: So if you want to expect, where do you go?
[2:41:01] Speaker 1: I think he dropped his phone. He'll be back in
[2:41:08] Speaker 1: a minute. I think he dropped his phone. It sounds
[2:41:10] Speaker 1: like he mishandled it.
[2:41:14] Speaker 2: I think he's good, like gaesslate to you. He says
[2:41:17] Speaker 2: that the more he loves you, the more he's going
[2:41:20] Speaker 2: to put diseases within you. So the more you're diseased,
[2:41:23] Speaker 2: it is just a sign off from God.
[2:41:25] Speaker 1: It's crazy.
[2:41:26] Speaker 8: Sorry, sorry, so sorry, bro, I really I really don't
[2:41:33] Speaker 8: understand you. Can you can you repeat me?
[2:41:40] Speaker 2: Continue to discussion with it?
[2:41:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, So here's the thing is, like you appeal to
[2:41:44] Speaker 1: fine tuning, but when we look at the parameters of
[2:41:48] Speaker 1: like human biology and the world that we live in,
[2:41:51] Speaker 1: it doesn't appear to be fine tuned. Like why did
[2:41:54] Speaker 1: God create a world in which one hundred thousand people
[2:41:56] Speaker 1: a year would be executed by natural disasters?
[2:42:02] Speaker 8: Well, you could look at it another way. If there
[2:42:06] Speaker 8: was a cosmic career in the universe, and we know
[2:42:09] Speaker 8: how A asked universities, we could have been obliterated in
[2:42:13] Speaker 8: an instant.
[2:42:15] Speaker 1: I don't know how to answer my question. I'm just asking, like,
[2:42:20] Speaker 1: what was God? What was God's reason for creating the
[2:42:23] Speaker 1: world so that people would be randomly executed by natural disasters?
[2:42:32] Speaker 8: Well, that's to test, Like like our scripture says, you
[2:42:37] Speaker 8: are here to be tested, You're not here to be
[2:42:40] Speaker 8: granted paradise. Why not paradise?
[2:42:43] Speaker 1: Why do you need Why do you need tested with
[2:42:46] Speaker 1: natural disasters? Does God have no other tools in the toolbox?
[2:42:53] Speaker 6: Oh?
[2:42:54] Speaker 8: The thing is he has many tools in his toolbox?
[2:42:58] Speaker 8: What what? Why why wouldn't he testismander? God? Well, who
[2:43:02] Speaker 8: are we to decide.
[2:43:05] Speaker 1: Of testing you without the natural disasters?
[2:43:09] Speaker 2: If?
[2:43:09] Speaker 8: If you don't mind me finishing mind sentence? Uh, why
[2:43:14] Speaker 8: wouldn't God test us this way?
[2:43:17] Speaker 1: Because it's cruel and unusual? Because God could actually test
[2:43:20] Speaker 1: you without the natural disasters, couldn't he?
[2:43:25] Speaker 8: But why would he?
[2:43:27] Speaker 1: Because it's cruel and unusual? Does God possess the capability
[2:43:31] Speaker 1: of testing you without natural disasters?
[2:43:37] Speaker 8: Well you could say the same thing about.
[2:43:43] Speaker 1: Does God possess the capability look of testing you without
[2:43:47] Speaker 1: the natural disasters?
[2:43:48] Speaker 8: I think I think you're intelligent enough to know there
[2:43:51] Speaker 8: are great areas in in any situation.
[2:43:54] Speaker 1: I don't think it's great I think you know the answer,
[2:43:58] Speaker 1: but you don't want to say it.
[2:44:00] Speaker 8: Okay, repeat the question. I will reply to you in
[2:44:05] Speaker 8: the best way you want.
[2:44:07] Speaker 1: Is God capable of testing you without natural disaster?
[2:44:11] Speaker 8: Yes?
[2:44:12] Speaker 1: Okay, that means the natural disasters.
[2:44:14] Speaker 8: Definitely, definitely, definitely.
[2:44:17] Speaker 1: What that means is that the natural disasters are not necessary.
[2:44:21] Speaker 1: If he could do it without the natural disasters, then
[2:44:24] Speaker 1: he doesn't need the natural disasters. So the fact that
[2:44:27] Speaker 1: he uses natural disasters when he could use other means
[2:44:30] Speaker 1: means that he's cruel or he doesn't exist.
[2:44:33] Speaker 8: No, it actually means that he could test you in
[2:44:37] Speaker 8: different ways. Yeah, he could make you lose your children,
[2:44:42] Speaker 8: he could make.
[2:44:46] Speaker 1: Let me say it another way, does God? Does God
[2:44:49] Speaker 1: have a method of testing people that does it involve
[2:44:52] Speaker 1: harming them?
[2:44:55] Speaker 8: Well? Where would does the testing faith be?
[2:45:00] Speaker 1: Are you worthy?
[2:45:00] Speaker 8: That's my question.
[2:45:02] Speaker 1: People in actural disasters die having not been tested. You
[2:45:05] Speaker 1: get that, right, Like when a building collapses on you,
[2:45:08] Speaker 1: You're not being tested.
[2:45:09] Speaker 6: You just die.
[2:45:12] Speaker 1: So this this is not a good response to the problem.
[2:45:17] Speaker 8: Well, actually no, because you're forgetting that the relatives are
[2:45:23] Speaker 8: also being tested.
[2:45:24] Speaker 1: So what what about the person that dies?
[2:45:26] Speaker 8: It's not just well the person that died. He has
[2:45:31] Speaker 8: just he has well according to my religion, and I
[2:45:35] Speaker 8: hope you understand that he had these tests. But his
[2:45:41] Speaker 8: relatives they have to be tested too.
[2:45:45] Speaker 1: Why do they have to be tested through killing somebody? Again,
[2:45:49] Speaker 1: this goes back to the same question that I before killing,
[2:45:52] Speaker 1: because goody of testing those people without killing somebody?
[2:46:00] Speaker 8: Look, death and in the hands of God.
[2:46:04] Speaker 1: Does God have Look I'm not I'm testing people without
[2:46:08] Speaker 1: killing people. It's just a logical question. If he has
[2:46:14] Speaker 1: the ability of doing it, that means the natural disasters
[2:46:16] Speaker 1: and the killing.
[2:46:17] Speaker 5: Of course.
[2:46:18] Speaker 8: Look, okay, I will answer your question, but please let
[2:46:23] Speaker 8: me finish the sentence. Of course he has the ability.
[2:46:27] Speaker 8: There you go, but what but why would he? Why
[2:46:31] Speaker 8: would he not to? He is the creator of life
[2:46:36] Speaker 8: and death.
[2:46:37] Speaker 1: Okay, so he's not he's just powerful.
[2:46:43] Speaker 8: Well, he's definitely powerful. But he says he's not good. Well,
[2:46:48] Speaker 8: if if he if he if he's in if he's
[2:46:51] Speaker 8: infinite in wisdom, we have ninety nine names for.
[2:46:54] Speaker 1: But I don't care about the name we have. I'm
[2:46:57] Speaker 1: asking if he's good.
[2:46:58] Speaker 8: Well, if you don't care about the nine about the names,
[2:47:01] Speaker 8: then why are we even in discussion with care.
[2:47:04] Speaker 1: About your name.
[2:47:05] Speaker 8: I'm a Muslim.
[2:47:06] Speaker 1: I know you're Muslim.
[2:47:08] Speaker 8: I'm a Muslim.
[2:47:08] Speaker 1: We're not discussing your your pet names for God. We're
[2:47:11] Speaker 1: discussing logical problems.
[2:47:13] Speaker 8: Okay. Sorry, If you're going to be disrespectful to me
[2:47:17] Speaker 8: saying pet names about my God, then honestly I thought
[2:47:21] Speaker 8: I thought. I honestly thought you were respectful. I honestly
[2:47:25] Speaker 8: thought that. That's why I stayed this long to speak
[2:47:30] Speaker 8: to you.
[2:47:30] Speaker 1: I don't know why you thought I was going to
[2:47:33] Speaker 1: be respectful to religion that thinks it's okay to subjugate
[2:47:36] Speaker 1: women and fornicate with children.
[2:47:40] Speaker 8: Okay, well, okay, okay, let's go one other time.
[2:47:45] Speaker 1: Do you tell me what do you think that a
[2:47:47] Speaker 1: postage should be killed?
[2:47:51] Speaker 8: Do I think that the pastage should be killed? Look,
[2:47:54] Speaker 8: there is a clear passage in the Quran that says
[2:47:59] Speaker 8: that no religion should be forced up.
[2:48:04] Speaker 2: Okay, okay, it is aggregated.
[2:48:11] Speaker 8: I can't brother.
[2:48:18] Speaker 1: He said that's abrogated.
[2:48:22] Speaker 8: Abrogated in what sense? Because I know what abrigade means?
[2:48:25] Speaker 8: But please, host, can you could you explain to me
[2:48:35] Speaker 8: what strength sent to me? Because I truly I'm not
[2:48:39] Speaker 8: I'm not doing this on purpose. I really, I really can't.
[2:48:44] Speaker 2: It is agated by the verse of the suite.
[2:48:52] Speaker 8: I'm really sorry. I'm trying to understand what he's said.
[2:48:56] Speaker 1: He says, it's abrogated by the verse of the sword
[2:48:59] Speaker 1: in chapter nine.
[2:49:02] Speaker 5: Did you hear that right?
[2:49:03] Speaker 2: Just yes?
[2:49:07] Speaker 8: No, no, no, there's no compulsion in religion that's aggregated.
[2:49:14] Speaker 2: It is iggregated.
[2:49:18] Speaker 8: Chapter nine. Okay, tell me where chapter nine the which verse? Please?
[2:49:24] Speaker 2: It is a chapter nine slay. We're all know the police,
[2:49:27] Speaker 2: all the b treaties and promises it gave to the disbelievers,
[2:49:30] Speaker 2: including the promise of safety.
[2:49:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, it says, but what's the sacred months? Make this cereal?
[2:49:37] Speaker 1: Once the sacred months have passed? Kill all the polytheists
[2:49:41] Speaker 1: who violated their treaties wherever you find them, Capture them,
[2:49:44] Speaker 1: besiege them, and lie and wait for them in every way.
[2:49:47] Speaker 1: But if they repent, perform prayers, and pay alms tax,
[2:49:52] Speaker 1: then set them free. Indeed, Allah is all forgiving and
[2:49:55] Speaker 1: most merciful.
[2:49:57] Speaker 8: Yes, exactly, that's there's a historical context to that. There's
[2:50:02] Speaker 8: a historical context to that, because why the policy. Okay,
[2:50:09] Speaker 8: I will just let you speak. I will speak school
[2:50:13] Speaker 8: to the bottom.
[2:50:17] Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, it says I've been commanded to fight the
[2:50:24] Speaker 1: people until they testify that there is no deity worthy
[2:50:28] Speaker 1: of worship except Allah, and that Mohammad is the messenger
[2:50:31] Speaker 1: of a law.
[2:50:32] Speaker 8: Oops mm hmmm.
[2:50:36] Speaker 1: It says, establish the prayer and pay the zaka. This
[2:50:41] Speaker 1: is honorable. Aya was called the Aya of the Sword,
[2:50:46] Speaker 1: about which odd the Hawk bin Mazahim said, it abrogated
[2:50:53] Speaker 1: every agreement of peace between the prophet and any idolator,
[2:50:57] Speaker 1: every treaty and every term. Our Afi said that I've
[2:51:02] Speaker 1: been a boss, commented, No, I doubt order had any
[2:51:06] Speaker 1: more treaty or promise of safety ever since Sarah Baraha
[2:51:11] Speaker 1: was revealed. The four months in addition to all peace
[2:51:14] Speaker 1: treaties conducted before Baraha was revealed and announced, had ended
[2:51:20] Speaker 1: by the tenth of the month of Ravi a Akhir.
[2:51:25] Speaker 4: So the true okay, so the true?
[2:51:27] Speaker 8: Can I applied to that?
[2:51:29] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[2:51:30] Speaker 8: Can I apply to that? So there's a historical context
[2:51:34] Speaker 8: to that. Don't forget that the revelation of the prophet Muhammed,
[2:51:38] Speaker 8: Peace be upon him has been over twenty three years.
[2:51:42] Speaker 8: So when the prophet has had complete control over Mecca
[2:51:48] Speaker 8: because he had to, he had to go to Medina
[2:51:52] Speaker 8: so that you could basically, let's say it impractical terms
[2:51:58] Speaker 8: that he and you both who will understand Massy's army.
[2:52:04] Speaker 8: He conquered Mecca, which was his home town. Yes, and
[2:52:09] Speaker 8: he told these believers that that didn't know about the
[2:52:15] Speaker 8: message that he was proclaiming. He told him, give them
[2:52:20] Speaker 8: four months and instruct them and tell them, tell them
[2:52:24] Speaker 8: exactly what the message is about. That monotheism, the message
[2:52:33] Speaker 8: of Islam basically was about. And because there were people
[2:52:37] Speaker 8: and at that time, at that time, and.
[2:52:39] Speaker 3: If they don't at that time, they were left to leave.
[2:52:45] Speaker 8: They were left to leave. Why they didn't accept.
[2:52:49] Speaker 1: Why did it say kill all the pot.
[2:52:52] Speaker 8: You know those those were the ones who were attacking
[2:52:56] Speaker 8: the Muslims. Don't forget we had thirteen years of persecution.
[2:53:04] Speaker 2: Because you have it is a way. The fact is
[2:53:09] Speaker 2: that that is are unable to pay the text for
[2:53:13] Speaker 2: safety in anywhere in the game player and within the.
[2:53:16] Speaker 8: Land of the Sorry, sorry, brother, I don't mind him speaking,
[2:53:22] Speaker 8: but please, could you the host explain to me what
[2:53:27] Speaker 8: he's saying, because I simply don't know why, but I
[2:53:31] Speaker 8: can't understand him, So please let him explain what he
[2:53:36] Speaker 8: wants to say, and then you tell me what you
[2:53:40] Speaker 8: tried to explain to me, because I'm definitely willing to
[2:53:46] Speaker 8: discuss this.
[2:53:49] Speaker 2: Like I cannot be that.
[2:53:52] Speaker 1: I can understand you. So, I mean, the fact of
[2:53:58] Speaker 1: the matter is, you know the religion calls for the
[2:54:02] Speaker 1: execution of apostates.
[2:54:03] Speaker 5: You know that, right?
[2:54:09] Speaker 8: Do you don't know that? Okay, I'm back, Okay, okay,
[2:54:20] Speaker 8: I'm back. Right.
[2:54:20] Speaker 5: Do you.
[2:54:22] Speaker 1: Accept that the religion calls for the execution of apostates?
[2:54:28] Speaker 3: No?
[2:54:29] Speaker 1: No, okay, so it does. Do you think that apostates
[2:54:32] Speaker 1: should be executed?
[2:54:34] Speaker 3: No?
[2:54:34] Speaker 1: No, no, no not okay, So you disagree with the
[2:54:38] Speaker 1: religion then.
[2:54:40] Speaker 8: No, no, no, because several scholars, high prominent scholars of
[2:54:49] Speaker 8: there it is, who didn't accept that. So if you
[2:54:54] Speaker 8: need them, I don't uh this Jesus.
[2:55:04] Speaker 2: Can you leave them? O? Can you leave the scholars
[2:55:06] Speaker 2: who said that this is borne?
[2:55:10] Speaker 8: Well, look, there are four famous uh scholars who have
[2:55:15] Speaker 8: produced the uh uh sort of schools.
[2:55:21] Speaker 2: And all of them say, all of them say that
[2:55:23] Speaker 2: they're a person leaves the religion, they must be out
[2:55:26] Speaker 2: of life. The only difference of opinion. No, no, go ahead,
[2:55:32] Speaker 2: and Joe.
[2:55:35] Speaker 8: Even take even team even team even take.
[2:55:38] Speaker 2: Me yes, here to anway them for their appostasy. It
[2:55:42] Speaker 2: literally suis if they do not pray. If a bustim
[2:55:44] Speaker 2: does not pray, he's for their supposed to see, go
[2:55:49] Speaker 2: ahead should be that a person leaves the religion. There's
[2:55:58] Speaker 2: not to be a life.
[2:55:59] Speaker 8: Coud look a post to see. Look, there's a difference
[2:56:06] Speaker 8: if if you allow me to explain, there's a difference
[2:56:11] Speaker 8: if you want to apostate from Islam and you don't
[2:56:14] Speaker 8: want to believe in the region anymore, it's simple, you
[2:56:18] Speaker 8: just leave. You don't have to leave your house necessarily.
[2:56:23] Speaker 1: So why do they.
[2:56:27] Speaker 8: Well, look, first, give me, give me the proofs of that.
[2:56:34] Speaker 1: And second, if we had we had three other Muslims
[2:56:38] Speaker 1: up here before you that are all advocated for killing apostates,
[2:56:42] Speaker 1: you're actually the only one who's disagreed.
[2:56:47] Speaker 8: Because I actually studied you. No, the thing is you
[2:56:54] Speaker 8: the Qur'an is the highest authority in our region and
[2:57:00] Speaker 8: in our in theo Kra clearly states you cannot force
[2:57:08] Speaker 8: the religion of Islam upon anybody.
[2:57:12] Speaker 1: Okay, because in Crown forty nine it says do not
[2:57:18] Speaker 1: take them as allies unless they emigrate into the cause
[2:57:22] Speaker 1: of the law. But if they turn away, then seize
[2:57:24] Speaker 1: them and kill them wherever you find them.
[2:57:28] Speaker 8: Yes, but that's a historical context. That's a historical context.
[2:57:34] Speaker 8: That's a historical context. That was against the Pagans of
[2:57:39] Speaker 8: Mecca who were trying to kill the Muslims. We had
[2:57:42] Speaker 8: thirteen years of persecution during the Prophet's time where they
[2:57:49] Speaker 8: would literally put spears in the vaginas of Muslim women.
[2:57:59] Speaker 5: To be pleasing.
[2:58:01] Speaker 8: Yes, this is a this is verified and proven.
[2:58:06] Speaker 2: I's it is.
[2:58:09] Speaker 8: If if you don't believe me, please please research me.
[2:58:13] Speaker 8: Research me, not me personally, not me personally, of course,
[2:58:22] Speaker 8: but research what I'm telling you. They would literally kill women, children,
[2:58:30] Speaker 8: They would they would both boycott them, the their shops,
[2:58:36] Speaker 8: they would plunder them of their wealth. So don't think
[2:58:44] Speaker 8: the crown is very difficult for for a non believer.
[2:58:51] Speaker 8: And I can understand that. I can understand this.
[2:58:55] Speaker 2: Just do you hear me?
[2:58:56] Speaker 5: Yes?
[2:58:59] Speaker 2: Can you put bibi square? Yeah? Can you read what
[2:59:04] Speaker 2: it saysts please?
[2:59:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, one second, you're talking to me, let me see so. No,
[2:59:12] Speaker 1: I can't read it in Arabic. Oh yeah, yeah, the
[2:59:17] Speaker 1: English says I've been Tamiya said getting out of religion
[2:59:23] Speaker 1: requires killing, even if it does not leave the group
[2:59:26] Speaker 1: of people.
[2:59:29] Speaker 2: Oh, you want to go ahead.
[2:59:38] Speaker 8: I'm sorry, I not sayet. Could you give me the
[2:59:42] Speaker 8: English English transition? Please? I never said I never I
[2:59:47] Speaker 8: never said I never said I was proficient in Arabic.
[2:59:51] Speaker 1: I never said that I read it in English. It
[2:59:53] Speaker 1: says I've been to Miya said getting out of religion
[2:59:58] Speaker 1: requires killing, even if it does not leave the group
[3:00:01] Speaker 1: of people.
[3:00:05] Speaker 8: Well, I would have to verify that source. I can't.
[3:00:11] Speaker 8: I would have to verify it. I would have to
[3:00:14] Speaker 8: verify it if it's true. I am, I'm I'm I'm
[3:00:18] Speaker 8: an honest person. I would be willing to say everything
[3:00:23] Speaker 8: that stated.
[3:00:24] Speaker 2: But you said you studied.
[3:00:31] Speaker 8: What I studied. Sorry, sorry, but sorry, brother. I I
[3:00:37] Speaker 8: live in the West. I live in the West. I
[3:00:41] Speaker 8: I hope you understand me. I hope you.
[3:00:47] Speaker 2: Are making clams that are fools. You said you studied,
[3:00:51] Speaker 2: that you are knowledgeable, and this is why we should
[3:00:53] Speaker 2: take your word over them. Anybody that knows, sure what
[3:01:00] Speaker 2: But sorry, it's the biggest story.
[3:01:05] Speaker 8: Whoa whoa no, no, no, no, no. Even TMA is
[3:01:09] Speaker 8: one of a kind. You can't you can't. Yeah, I
[3:01:15] Speaker 8: apologize if I if I'm laughing in some way arrogant arrogantly,
[3:01:23] Speaker 8: but that's not my meaning. Even Timia is one of
[3:01:27] Speaker 8: one of the most greatest scholars that that's been, so
[3:01:33] Speaker 8: I'm willing to check it out.
[3:01:35] Speaker 1: Nineteen nineteen. Do you believe in hardith? I?
[3:01:40] Speaker 5: Do you think that?
[3:01:42] Speaker 8: Are you asking to me? Well? My personal opinion is
[3:01:50] Speaker 8: that I accept most is, but I have doubts about some.
[3:01:58] Speaker 1: What about the narration from Ali and Sahibakari?
[3:02:04] Speaker 8: Okay one?
[3:02:08] Speaker 1: Is it trustworthy?
[3:02:12] Speaker 8: Oh? All of the him meaning? I can't say for Suttin.
[3:02:26] Speaker 8: I can't say for Stan.
[3:02:27] Speaker 1: Because it says whenever I tell you a narration from
[3:02:31] Speaker 1: Allah's messenger by Allah, I would rather fall down from
[3:02:35] Speaker 1: the sky than ascribe a false statement to him. But
[3:02:38] Speaker 1: if I tell you something between me and you not
[3:02:41] Speaker 1: a hadith, then it was indeed a trick, no doubt.
[3:02:47] Speaker 1: I heard Allah's apostle saying during the last days there
[3:02:52] Speaker 1: will appear some young, foolish people who will say the
[3:02:55] Speaker 1: best words, but their faith will not go beyond their
[3:02:58] Speaker 1: throats and will go out and leave their religion as
[3:03:02] Speaker 1: an arrow goes out of the game. So wherever you
[3:03:06] Speaker 1: find them, kill them, For whoever kills them shall I
[3:03:09] Speaker 1: have a reward in the day of the Resurrection.
[3:03:14] Speaker 8: Well, from from my understanding, they were talking about the
[3:03:19] Speaker 8: hawarish meaning isis.
[3:03:23] Speaker 2: People who no and doesn't mean they let the religion.
[3:03:28] Speaker 2: What it means there are people who meet other people
[3:03:30] Speaker 2: in the religion.
[3:03:32] Speaker 8: No, no, the hawarish means those that ascribe to other
[3:03:37] Speaker 8: Muslims that they are not Muslims.
[3:03:40] Speaker 2: I know, and this is not talking about them unless
[3:03:43] Speaker 2: you can substituate that claim.
[3:03:47] Speaker 8: Well, it's been defined pretty much by uh bitch. There
[3:03:58] Speaker 8: may just call us that I know that I know of.
[3:04:02] Speaker 8: But please correct me, Please correct me if if you
[3:04:05] Speaker 8: think I'm wrong, please correct me.
[3:04:07] Speaker 1: What about in I been Abbas where it says the
[3:04:11] Speaker 1: messenger of a law said, whoever changes his religion, kill him.
[3:04:15] Speaker 1: That's in sunan on is it where that we've got
[3:04:24] Speaker 1: to be like a bunch of hoodies saying that Mohammad
[3:04:27] Speaker 1: wants you to kill apastates.
[3:04:33] Speaker 8: Well, look, like I said before, the Quran has presidents
[3:04:38] Speaker 8: over the Hadis.
[3:04:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope you there's a bunch of them, because
[3:04:45] Speaker 1: it looks like.
[3:04:47] Speaker 8: Look, look, look, let me explain maybe to be easier
[3:04:53] Speaker 8: to understand me. The Quran is the primary source. There's
[3:04:59] Speaker 8: nothing that goes above that. The hat is a secondary source.
[3:05:05] Speaker 1: So if you say it's sort of the side, we've
[3:05:09] Speaker 1: got a bunch of secondary sources that claim you should
[3:05:12] Speaker 1: kill apostates. A disbeliever and a believer who killed them
[3:05:16] Speaker 1: will never be gathered together in hell. I mean, you
[3:05:20] Speaker 1: can kill a disbeliever and still go to heaven. That's
[3:05:25] Speaker 1: Sahi Muslim eighty one ninety one or eighteen ninety one.
[3:05:29] Speaker 8: Well, the kur An says zuk, there's no compulsion in religion,
[3:05:33] Speaker 8: So that's your problem. Well, what what are you going
[3:05:38] Speaker 8: to take? The word of God or or the hot day?
[3:05:42] Speaker 2: You're good? In chapter two since the tees and based
[3:05:46] Speaker 2: upon the fact that your good syst experis is no
[3:05:49] Speaker 2: longer usable, that you're going to have to take the scooters.
[3:05:53] Speaker 2: What they tell you that the chapter that has to
[3:05:56] Speaker 2: do with no compulsion was when the prophet was weak,
[3:05:59] Speaker 2: it was a king, and that is when he wanted
[3:06:02] Speaker 2: to and were peaceful, and then when he could cover.
[3:06:07] Speaker 8: Are you talking about sorry, brother, are you talking about
[3:06:11] Speaker 8: the Macan periods and the Bedinia period?
[3:06:13] Speaker 3: Is that?
[3:06:15] Speaker 8: See, yes, okay, I understand what you mean by that. Look,
[3:06:22] Speaker 8: the Quran has presidents over the ho days any any
[3:06:26] Speaker 8: day of the time, because why why why Because the
[3:06:31] Speaker 8: Qoran is from uh Is, the world of God. The
[3:06:36] Speaker 8: ha Is is the transmissions of the words of the prophet,
[3:06:41] Speaker 8: which could have been corrupted. That's why I said earlier.
[3:06:45] Speaker 8: That's why I said earlier that I don't necessarily ascribe
[3:06:50] Speaker 8: to every hot days that is in the Muslim That's
[3:06:59] Speaker 8: that's what I'm.
[3:07:03] Speaker 7: Hold on.
[3:07:03] Speaker 8: Let me read.
[3:07:04] Speaker 1: I'm going to read a verse from the Koran here
[3:07:06] Speaker 1: real quick, peece and thirty three let's see, because there's
[3:07:13] Speaker 1: a tough seer on thirty three sixty and sixty one
[3:07:16] Speaker 1: that claims that you should kill apostates. And the text says,
[3:07:19] Speaker 1: if hypocrites and those with sickness in their hearts and
[3:07:23] Speaker 1: rumor mongerers in Medgna do not desist, we will certainly
[3:07:27] Speaker 1: incite you, O Prophet, against them, and they will not
[3:07:30] Speaker 1: be your neighbors there any longer. They deserve to be condemned.
[3:07:34] Speaker 1: If they were to persist, they would get themselves seized
[3:07:38] Speaker 1: and killed relentlessly wherever they are found. And the tough
[3:07:42] Speaker 1: seer for this passage starts out by saying, a person
[3:07:47] Speaker 1: hold on says, a person who turns an apostate after
[3:07:52] Speaker 1: having embraced Islam is killed in punishment. So is the
[3:07:59] Speaker 1: tough see her on this chronic verse?
[3:08:01] Speaker 5: Wrong?
[3:08:03] Speaker 8: Look who was written by?
[3:08:08] Speaker 1: Let me see if there's a name attached to it?
[3:08:13] Speaker 8: Well, most probably.
[3:08:17] Speaker 2: The students of it is. So he've been, he've been
[3:08:21] Speaker 2: te me the person we're talking about it like, oh,
[3:08:23] Speaker 2: he's the best scholar, he's one of a cook. This
[3:08:26] Speaker 2: is the student.
[3:08:27] Speaker 8: No, no, no, I never said even tell me it
[3:08:31] Speaker 8: was the best scholar. I never said that is one
[3:08:34] Speaker 8: of the is one of the best.
[3:08:36] Speaker 2: Yes, yes, Then he tells you you should only six?
[3:08:42] Speaker 1: Sure do you think that?
[3:08:46] Speaker 3: Uh?
[3:08:46] Speaker 1: It's not not the change subjects to too quickly, but
[3:08:49] Speaker 1: it's been, you know, on my mind since we started talking.
[3:08:52] Speaker 1: Do you think that nine year old should get married?
[3:08:57] Speaker 14: Well?
[3:08:58] Speaker 8: Look, if if you want to have that discussion, I'm
[3:09:01] Speaker 8: wanting to engage with you a problem. Yes, Look, if
[3:09:07] Speaker 8: you look at a subjective morality in Germany, you can
[3:09:14] Speaker 8: have They're not marriage and.
[3:09:17] Speaker 1: We're not talking about what about them, We're not doing
[3:09:19] Speaker 1: what about ism. I'm asking your opinion should nine year
[3:09:22] Speaker 1: olds be married? I don't care what they're doing in Germany.
[3:09:29] Speaker 8: Okay, well, well, let me give you the right answer,
[3:09:33] Speaker 8: and I think that's what you want to hear. For
[3:09:37] Speaker 8: us as Muslims, it's from puberty onwards.
[3:09:42] Speaker 1: So if if a girl has early onset puberty at
[3:09:45] Speaker 1: age six, would you be able to get married?
[3:09:50] Speaker 8: Well, I know you mean Aisha Rose.
[3:09:55] Speaker 1: I'm not talking about Aisha. I'm saying in the present day,
[3:10:00] Speaker 1: if a girl early onset puberty, meaning she's menstruating at
[3:10:03] Speaker 1: age six, should she be marriageable?
[3:10:08] Speaker 8: Let's be honest. Statistically, biologically it's not impossible. It's not impossible, but.
[3:10:17] Speaker 1: It's this a logical question. Should she be marriageable?
[3:10:22] Speaker 8: Well, actually there's a difference of opinion among scholars. But
[3:10:28] Speaker 8: I'm being completely honest with you. Mate, mate, mate, please
[3:10:35] Speaker 8: please let me finish. Please let me finish my sentence.
[3:10:40] Speaker 8: I like I let you do the same. The thing is,
[3:10:47] Speaker 8: if if you have a uh man, you lost my
[3:10:56] Speaker 8: train of fourt there. If if there is a girl
[3:11:02] Speaker 8: that is a prepy based girl, there is not only
[3:11:07] Speaker 8: the the sorry, mate, the the oh man, the puberty
[3:11:21] Speaker 8: that that is it, you have to also look at
[3:11:25] Speaker 8: it at the psychological state.
[3:11:28] Speaker 1: Okay, do you think that that six year olds are
[3:11:31] Speaker 1: in a psychological state.
[3:11:33] Speaker 5: To get married.
[3:11:36] Speaker 8: No, no, you have to evaluate them.
[3:11:38] Speaker 1: So do you think that there's ever a case in
[3:11:40] Speaker 1: which six year olds are ready to get married?
[3:11:46] Speaker 8: If look, he.
[3:11:52] Speaker 1: Knows his answer, he's afraid to say it out loud. Yes,
[3:11:55] Speaker 1: to be sure.
[3:11:55] Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no no no.
[3:11:57] Speaker 8: I'm not afraid of anything. I'm not afraid of it.
[3:12:00] Speaker 1: We will publicly.
[3:12:02] Speaker 8: Please please do, please do, please do, please do, please do.
[3:12:08] Speaker 1: You're going to please do marrying children please, and then
[3:12:11] Speaker 1: we're going to shame you publicly. That's what's going to happen.
[3:12:14] Speaker 8: Oh, please do, oh please do, please do, please do.
[3:12:19] Speaker 8: I don't care about that.
[3:12:23] Speaker 1: So do you agree with Iraq changing the age of
[3:12:26] Speaker 1: marriage to nine legally.
[3:12:32] Speaker 8: If if they are psychologically and physically in puberty.
[3:12:37] Speaker 1: The law say anything about psychological just says that they
[3:12:41] Speaker 1: have to be age nine or older.
[3:12:44] Speaker 8: You're sorry, I'm not looking at I'm not looking at
[3:12:49] Speaker 8: I'm not looking at Iraqs. I know I'm not looking
[3:12:54] Speaker 8: at Iraqs law.
[3:12:55] Speaker 1: I need you to focus bringing up Iraq because they're
[3:12:58] Speaker 1: basing the new law on Islamic tradition and teaching. That's
[3:13:02] Speaker 1: why I'm bringing it up. I'm not saying that you
[3:13:05] Speaker 1: have to agree with it. I'm asking if you do
[3:13:08] Speaker 1: agree with it. Do you agree with the ruling in
[3:13:12] Speaker 1: Iraq that you could marry nine year olds and the
[3:13:14] Speaker 1: ruling doesn't say anything about their mental fitness? Do you
[3:13:19] Speaker 1: agree with that or disagree?
[3:13:21] Speaker 5: Oh?
[3:13:22] Speaker 1: Did they finally reject it? These nuts?
[3:13:24] Speaker 6: I know it was in.
[3:13:26] Speaker 1: It was in parliament for a while. I thought it
[3:13:28] Speaker 1: actually passed either way. I don't care if it pastor,
[3:13:31] Speaker 1: and I want to know if he agrees with it.
[3:13:34] Speaker 3: I thought it passed too.
[3:13:36] Speaker 2: The thing is like when you have people I don't
[3:13:38] Speaker 2: know if like this helpens with you when you discuss
[3:13:40] Speaker 2: a scholarship, but when they come up and pretend to
[3:13:42] Speaker 2: be studied upon it and they just richer everything they say,
[3:13:46] Speaker 2: it is infuriating to a different type. Like why are
[3:13:50] Speaker 2: you looking seeing that you're studied?
[3:13:51] Speaker 8: What do you do?
[3:13:52] Speaker 2: Not even know what the scholars say?
[3:13:54] Speaker 5: Right?
[3:14:01] Speaker 1: I don't know if he's still talking or what. Probably
[3:14:05] Speaker 1: just still you happen over there? Hello, I'm looking at
[3:14:13] Speaker 1: an article from a recent that says, under Iraq's new law,
[3:14:19] Speaker 1: girls can legally marry from age nine in certain circumstances,
[3:14:24] Speaker 1: depending on religious interpretations. The legal marriage age for boys
[3:14:29] Speaker 1: has been reduced from eighteen to fifteen. The law gives
[3:14:33] Speaker 1: religious authorities the power to decide on family matters including marriage, divorce,
[3:14:38] Speaker 1: child custodies, so on.
[3:14:39] Speaker 3: And so forth.
[3:14:40] Speaker 1: Now, the Koran does allow for divorcing women that are prereveescent,
[3:14:44] Speaker 1: so this is in line with the worlds. The Koran says,
[3:14:49] Speaker 1: I don't think nineteen.
[3:14:50] Speaker 2: If you losten like, if you loseen', then you can
[3:14:57] Speaker 2: interpret the ruse to mean that you can literally maybe
[3:15:01] Speaker 2: there's something sting you for maving a deed with you
[3:15:04] Speaker 2: if you phone.
[3:15:08] Speaker 8: Okay, uh, tell me when I can answer, because you
[3:15:13] Speaker 8: guys keep talking to each other, because tell me when
[3:15:17] Speaker 8: I can answer.
[3:15:17] Speaker 1: I've been waiting for the whole time for the answer.
[3:15:19] Speaker 1: Do you agree with the new law? Yes, that they
[3:15:23] Speaker 1: can marry nine year olds?
[3:15:26] Speaker 8: You, but you told me a caveat with that. You
[3:15:29] Speaker 8: told me.
[3:15:30] Speaker 1: I'm asking if you agree with the new law. That's
[3:15:32] Speaker 1: all I'm asking you.
[3:15:34] Speaker 8: No, you said he said something with that.
[3:15:37] Speaker 1: All I want to know is if you agree with this.
[3:15:40] Speaker 8: Listen, look, listen if you if if you're going to
[3:15:44] Speaker 8: have an honest discussion and honestly in the beginning, Buddy,
[3:15:48] Speaker 8: I thought it was my question.
[3:15:51] Speaker 1: Do you think I don't know my own question?
[3:15:54] Speaker 8: Okay, don't repeat your question. Please, please just ask me.
[3:15:57] Speaker 1: Do you agree with the law and our act that
[3:16:00] Speaker 1: it's okay to marry nine year olds? Do you agree
[3:16:02] Speaker 1: with that?
[3:16:06] Speaker 8: That's not what you said.
[3:16:07] Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying right now, is what I said before.
[3:16:10] Speaker 1: I'm asking you for the tenth time. Do you agree
[3:16:12] Speaker 1: with this?
[3:16:12] Speaker 14: No?
[3:16:13] Speaker 8: Okay, okay, let me tell you what you said. You
[3:16:17] Speaker 8: told me.
[3:16:18] Speaker 1: I don't give a fuck what you think you heard.
[3:16:20] Speaker 1: I'm asking you the question right now.
[3:16:22] Speaker 6: Do you agree?
[3:16:24] Speaker 8: I don't give a fuck what you what you care about?
[3:16:27] Speaker 1: Do you agree with the law. That's all I need
[3:16:29] Speaker 1: to hear. I need a yes, no, or I don't
[3:16:32] Speaker 1: know out of your pie hole? Do you agree with
[3:16:35] Speaker 1: the law. That's what I'm asking you.
[3:16:42] Speaker 8: Listen to me.
[3:16:45] Speaker 1: I need you to say yes or no to my question.
[3:16:49] Speaker 8: No, I don't need to do anything to you.
[3:16:51] Speaker 1: Okay, So you're terrified, you're afraid, it's okay, i'd be afraid.
[3:16:55] Speaker 8: Yes, I'm terrified. Terrified to you.
[3:16:58] Speaker 1: If my religion allows you terrified, I'd be afraid to
[3:17:01] Speaker 1: say it. Publicly too.
[3:17:03] Speaker 8: Oh no, I'm willing to say anything.
[3:17:06] Speaker 1: Then tell me if you agree with the new law.
[3:17:09] Speaker 8: No, but I will. I won't. I won't. I won't
[3:17:12] Speaker 8: be regulated by them.
[3:17:14] Speaker 1: You literally will. Yes, you will. So here's what's really
[3:17:18] Speaker 1: kick me off. So what's going to happen is I'm
[3:17:20] Speaker 1: going to ask you the same question one hundred times
[3:17:23] Speaker 1: until you answer it, or you're going to run away
[3:17:26] Speaker 1: from the conversation until you can grow a pair and
[3:17:29] Speaker 1: be a man and answer the question. We're not going
[3:17:32] Speaker 1: to be moving forward in this conversation. So I'll ask
[3:17:35] Speaker 1: you again, do you agree or do you disagree with
[3:17:39] Speaker 1: the law in Iraq allowing nine year olds to get married?
[3:17:47] Speaker 8: Well, if you say I'm wrong, then I'm willing to
[3:17:51] Speaker 8: reject it.
[3:17:52] Speaker 1: I've never said anything about you being wrong. I'm asking
[3:17:55] Speaker 1: you if you agree with it. Look you because actually
[3:18:02] Speaker 1: let me let me let me ask the audience audience,
[3:18:05] Speaker 1: can you tell me do you agree with this new law?
[3:18:07] Speaker 1: I want to see what the audience says. A lot
[3:18:10] Speaker 1: of no's already. Ohez, oh, that was easy, okay. A
[3:18:14] Speaker 1: lot of people are saying no, they didn't have any
[3:18:17] Speaker 1: problem answering the question. I'm trying to figure out what's
[3:18:20] Speaker 1: what's troubling you. Why can't you answer the question?
[3:18:25] Speaker 8: Okay, that's simple, because you told me if they were
[3:18:29] Speaker 8: not psychologically nor uh physically meaning in puberty relity, do.
[3:18:39] Speaker 1: You agree with the law or not?
[3:18:43] Speaker 8: If if that, if that's the two conditions, yes, I
[3:18:46] Speaker 8: do agree.
[3:18:47] Speaker 1: There's no conditions in the condition that is that. So
[3:18:55] Speaker 1: I already told you the law doesn't say anything about
[3:18:57] Speaker 1: their mental fitness. So, knowing that, do you think that
[3:19:04] Speaker 1: they should be allowed to pass this law? Do you
[3:19:07] Speaker 1: agree with this law.
[3:19:14] Speaker 8: The psychological fitness and the puberty fitness? Then definitely not.
[3:19:22] Speaker 8: I would never accept that law.
[3:19:24] Speaker 1: Wou So, if if there's a nine year old that's
[3:19:28] Speaker 1: hit puberty, how do you determine if they're psychologically fit
[3:19:32] Speaker 1: for marriage?
[3:19:36] Speaker 8: Could? Yes?
[3:19:38] Speaker 1: If you find a nine year old that's hit puberty,
[3:19:40] Speaker 1: how do you determine if they're psychologically ready to be married?
[3:19:43] Speaker 1: What's your test? Because my guess is the test in
[3:19:49] Speaker 1: your life is whether or not your tally whacker points upwards.
[3:19:53] Speaker 1: That's what I think.
[3:19:55] Speaker 8: Sorry, I've never heard of the word teddy what before?
[3:20:01] Speaker 8: Could you explain that to me? Please?
[3:20:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the only test that they're applying over
[3:20:09] Speaker 1: there is whether or not you're getting a rise. No, man,
[3:20:17] Speaker 1: come on, don't you think it would have been important
[3:20:19] Speaker 1: for them to include some sort of mental fitness tests?
[3:20:22] Speaker 1: How do you test somebody's mental fitness for marriage?
[3:20:27] Speaker 8: Well, look, if you look at the period of the
[3:20:30] Speaker 8: puffit in that time, you really can't.
[3:20:36] Speaker 1: This is happening now, this is happening in twenty twenty five.
[3:20:42] Speaker 8: Well, if you, oh, I don't know the studies or
[3:20:49] Speaker 8: sticks about that, I have no idea.
[3:20:53] Speaker 5: I don't.
[3:20:54] Speaker 8: I'm going to be honest with you. I don't have
[3:20:57] Speaker 8: any studies or the scientific claims. Uh, let's have been done.
[3:21:05] Speaker 8: Uh according to that, but in the in those times? Yes?
[3:21:11] Speaker 5: True?
[3:21:13] Speaker 1: What country are you?
[3:21:16] Speaker 8: Yes? Yes, definitely are you?
[3:21:18] Speaker 1: Are you in Europe or the United States?
[3:21:21] Speaker 8: Europe?
[3:21:21] Speaker 5: Here?
[3:21:22] Speaker 1: Okay, just checking because if you're in the States, I'm
[3:21:29] Speaker 1: gonna call the police on you.
[3:21:32] Speaker 6: Why you?
[3:21:34] Speaker 8: Oh, please do? You can call call me in Europe
[3:21:38] Speaker 8: in Belgium.
[3:21:38] Speaker 1: Called FBI CPS.
[3:21:41] Speaker 8: Please do, please do? Because what have I done wrong?
[3:21:48] Speaker 1: You think nine year olds would get married? It's crazy?
[3:21:50] Speaker 1: But listen, Uh, we appreciate you coming up in time
[3:21:54] Speaker 1: with us, but I think the conversation a little bit
[3:21:57] Speaker 1: long in the tooth. So now that we all know
[3:21:59] Speaker 1: what kind of you are, we're gonna let you go. Okay,
[3:22:06] Speaker 1: every conversation ends the same way. M they all do.
[3:22:10] Speaker 2: It is poor for fourth questions today.
[3:22:12] Speaker 1: Yep, everyone ends the same way with them justifying what
[3:22:17] Speaker 1: I'm gonna call violence against little girls, because that's what
[3:22:20] Speaker 1: it is. Little girls can't consent. That's great. That's violence
[3:22:25] Speaker 1: against little girls.
[3:22:26] Speaker 3: That's what it is.
[3:22:26] Speaker 1: It's horrendous year old women. Oh yeah, of course, yeah,
[3:22:31] Speaker 1: nine year old women. Yeah, the fuck out here, nine
[3:22:34] Speaker 1: year old women. Randy, thank you so much for gifting
[3:22:38] Speaker 1: ten Deconstruction Zone memberships. I really appreciate that. That's incredibly generous.
[3:22:44] Speaker 1: And Meg, good to see you tonight. Meg says, can't
[3:22:47] Speaker 1: talk loud hiding hiding in a car, believe in stuff?
[3:22:51] Speaker 1: Heard your people say in stuff?
[3:22:53] Speaker 8: I win?
[3:22:54] Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, that that car was wild. I will never
[3:22:57] Speaker 1: understand people that think that they have a winning argument
[3:23:00] Speaker 1: just by saying, well, I heard this one scholar say
[3:23:03] Speaker 1: something that's not actually an argument. You give me the
[3:23:06] Speaker 1: actual argument. Ark Lloyd says, who are we to classic
[3:23:11] Speaker 1: abuse victim mentality?
[3:23:14] Speaker 15: Oh?
[3:23:15] Speaker 1: Interesting, I think you're suggesting that somebody who has a
[3:23:19] Speaker 1: victim mentality would say, who are we to judge? I
[3:23:24] Speaker 1: guess it's kind of similar to like a what about
[3:23:27] Speaker 1: is a I have to think on that one for
[3:23:30] Speaker 1: a minute. I reactor. Thank you so much for the
[3:23:33] Speaker 1: six sixty six. It says you can't simultaneously appeal to
[3:23:36] Speaker 1: fine tuning, and it's it's a test problem of evil
[3:23:40] Speaker 1: less the problem less of a problem for Islam since
[3:23:43] Speaker 1: Allah since a laws and out of the closet d bag. Yeah,
[3:23:47] Speaker 1: that's a good point. He is an out of clause,
[3:23:52] Speaker 1: isn't he. He's not hiding anything. Christianity they'd try to
[3:23:55] Speaker 1: hide that stuff. That's the difference between Christianity Islam was that.
[3:24:00] Speaker 2: He doesn't know he ever beat them. Says he hates you. Yeah,
[3:24:04] Speaker 2: you're the worst of his creation.
[3:24:07] Speaker 1: Travis says, justin please call them supernatural disasters. Actually actually
[3:24:11] Speaker 1: a really good point. I'm gonna start doing that for
[3:24:12] Speaker 1: now on. I'm gonna call them supernatural disasters. Anthony, thank
[3:24:17] Speaker 1: you so much for the ten hour super Chest says,
[3:24:19] Speaker 1: what's up man? I saw one of your videos and
[3:24:21] Speaker 1: instantly subscribe to get access to the cheat sheet first
[3:24:23] Speaker 1: time seeing you live Christian apologists till twenty four. I'm
[3:24:27] Speaker 1: thirty five now anti apologetics FTW.
[3:24:31] Speaker 5: I'm with you.
[3:24:32] Speaker 1: I was a Christian apologist as well, probably held the
[3:24:37] Speaker 1: same root as you. Somewhere in my younger twenties started
[3:24:40] Speaker 1: to deconstruct and get some better education. And you know,
[3:24:43] Speaker 1: by the time I was like thirty, I was like,
[3:24:46] Speaker 1: I don't know about this. This seems us, but we're
[3:24:50] Speaker 1: glad that you deconstructed Anthony and made it out of
[3:24:53] Speaker 1: the out of the nonsense. And El Karaki, good to
[3:24:56] Speaker 1: see you tonight, friend, he says, hello. I am a
[3:24:58] Speaker 1: Palestinian American and question for caller is terrible as the
[3:25:03] Speaker 1: Gaza situation is, where are the Muslims and Gaza helping
[3:25:06] Speaker 1: those in need? All I saw were people raising prices. Yeah,
[3:25:11] Speaker 1: you know what, I don't know what's happening on the
[3:25:13] Speaker 1: ground over there. I hope you're okay, because I'm actually
[3:25:16] Speaker 1: quite worried about this conflict as I am with the
[3:25:19] Speaker 1: Ukrainian conflict, and it's heartbreaking to see like people getting
[3:25:24] Speaker 1: torn apart over this nonsense. And I get some of
[3:25:28] Speaker 1: it's political, obviously.
[3:25:31] Speaker 2: Do you want to know how they were, Like I
[3:25:33] Speaker 2: know the Muslims, the Muslim buthering were like using this
[3:25:37] Speaker 2: to make money off the procidians on the YouTube order
[3:25:40] Speaker 2: with them. They were choosing up every Palestinian five dozen dollars,
[3:25:44] Speaker 2: five dozen dollars per Palestinian to get out.
[3:25:47] Speaker 1: It's crazy, that's crazy, person cannibalizing your own people. Tally
[3:25:53] Speaker 1: Beck says, seriously, yeah, referring to that last guest. Seriously, listen, Tally.
[3:25:58] Speaker 1: They'll justify anything if it's part part of the religion.
[3:26:01] Speaker 1: Religion is unquestionable. That's why we do these live streams,
[3:26:05] Speaker 1: because when you have unquestionable beliefs, you have to marry
[3:26:08] Speaker 1: yourself to the most ridiculous positions. Alive and Kay, thank
[3:26:13] Speaker 1: you so much for the five dollars supertest says Hey,
[3:26:15] Speaker 1: justin happy to be here for another live Okay, listen,
[3:26:17] Speaker 1: I'm happy that you're here. Thank you so much for
[3:26:20] Speaker 1: showing up and supporting and Zaria, thank you for the
[3:26:24] Speaker 1: superchest says read excess thirty four and it was the
[3:26:27] Speaker 1: actual ten Commandments. What do apologist say about this? Well,
[3:26:30] Speaker 1: that's the thing is there's two editions of the Ten Commandments,
[3:26:33] Speaker 1: and they don't actually agree with each other, which is
[3:26:35] Speaker 1: kind of a problem. And they do also say don't
[3:26:38] Speaker 1: covet your neighbor's slave, which is problematic because like Christians
[3:26:41] Speaker 1: want to throw out all the slave laws, but they
[3:26:43] Speaker 1: want to keep the Ten Commandments. But even in the
[3:26:45] Speaker 1: Ten Commandments, you're stuck with slaves. You can't get rid
[3:26:48] Speaker 1: of it. But yeah, there's two passages about the Ten Commandments.
[3:26:52] Speaker 1: I think the prior passage shows up in what was
[3:26:55] Speaker 1: excess twenty one nineteen twenty or twenty one. One of
[3:26:58] Speaker 1: those three chapters I forget, but yeah, compare them side
[3:27:02] Speaker 1: by side. Rachel says, didn't say anything. Rachel, welcome to
[3:27:07] Speaker 1: the Crack and Crew Elite. You've got access to the
[3:27:09] Speaker 1: Deconstruction Zone cheat sheet. Everyone subscribed to Crack and Crew
[3:27:12] Speaker 1: Elite has access to the Deconstruction Zone cheat sheet. It's
[3:27:16] Speaker 1: really helpful for helping other people deconstruct and for doing
[3:27:19] Speaker 1: live debates. And last one, Joe J. Moa says Christian
[3:27:24] Speaker 1: one on one, no answers say only God knows. Actually,
[3:27:27] Speaker 1: that's listen, that's not bad. Even when I was a Christian,
[3:27:32] Speaker 1: I was willing to say things like like I don't
[3:27:37] Speaker 1: know the answer to that, and like, you know, it's
[3:27:42] Speaker 1: a mystery. So like when people talked about when people
[3:27:47] Speaker 1: were talking about like the Trinity, I knew the Trinity
[3:27:52] Speaker 1: was illogical even as a Christian, and I was willing
[3:27:54] Speaker 1: to say it must be a mystery. It doesn't make
[3:27:57] Speaker 1: sense to me. But I think that's a cop out.
[3:27:58] Speaker 1: I think that just means it's all logical and you
[3:28:00] Speaker 1: should get rid of it. But how you doing?
[3:28:03] Speaker 8: Good?
[3:28:04] Speaker 6: Hey man?
[3:28:05] Speaker 2: What's up?
[3:28:05] Speaker 9: Man?
[3:28:06] Speaker 3: Thank you? Justin this is really helping me.
[3:28:09] Speaker 7: So right now, I'm actually going through a lot of
[3:28:12] Speaker 7: the deconstruction right now. I've noticed when I try to
[3:28:16] Speaker 7: even go back to prayer, it causes me to be anxious.
[3:28:19] Speaker 7: So now I don't do it. I'm deconstructing because you're putting,
[3:28:24] Speaker 7: You're making a lot of sense into how you're describing
[3:28:27] Speaker 7: it through the text, and I'm not being ignorant. So
[3:28:31] Speaker 7: I want to just keep ingesting what you're teaching on here.
[3:28:34] Speaker 5: And I thank you for that.
[3:28:35] Speaker 8: Man.
[3:28:35] Speaker 7: Honestly, I have a big smile on my face because
[3:28:38] Speaker 7: I'm actually pretty happy to finally get this out of
[3:28:41] Speaker 7: my system. I'm forty five years old, and it took.
[3:28:45] Speaker 5: Me this long to realize this.
[3:28:46] Speaker 1: Man, it's a long journey. It's a hard one too,
[3:28:49] Speaker 1: but I actually I empathize what you're saying.
[3:28:52] Speaker 14: I do.
[3:28:52] Speaker 1: Remember there was a point towards the end of my
[3:28:55] Speaker 1: deconstruction where I realized that praying was actually dangerous because
[3:28:59] Speaker 1: I knew I knew that unanswered prayer was problematic, and
[3:29:03] Speaker 1: I knew that most likely my prayer wasn't going to
[3:29:05] Speaker 1: get answered. So I was like, well, I guess I
[3:29:07] Speaker 1: just won't pray.
[3:29:10] Speaker 7: Yeah, that's that's what's happening to me. The I actually
[3:29:15] Speaker 7: got offered a job as a counselor because I started
[3:29:18] Speaker 7: reading a lot of like Carl Jung and started meditating
[3:29:21] Speaker 7: a lot. I have resolved all my mental health issues.
[3:29:26] Speaker 7: Anxiety's gone, depression's gone, yeah, even the anger, everything's gone
[3:29:31] Speaker 7: now just by sitting and meditating.
[3:29:33] Speaker 1: I may we love that for you. Are you in
[3:29:35] Speaker 1: the discord yet? Uh no, No, I'm not definitely joined
[3:29:40] Speaker 1: the discord. There's a lot of people there that are deconstructing,
[3:29:43] Speaker 1: and there's a lot of good resources in there as well,
[3:29:46] Speaker 1: like study material and topics and things like that, and
[3:29:48] Speaker 1: a lot of people will to bounce ideas off of too.
[3:29:51] Speaker 1: And since you're you've you've you might be in the
[3:29:55] Speaker 1: middle of the process, but there are some people in
[3:29:57] Speaker 1: there that are literally just starting, and you'll get to
[3:29:59] Speaker 1: talk to people people that are at the beginning of
[3:30:01] Speaker 1: the journey. And so it's a fun process to get
[3:30:04] Speaker 1: to talk to people offline. We don't really get to
[3:30:06] Speaker 1: do it during the live stream because everyone's here for
[3:30:08] Speaker 1: the debates, but the discord does allow us like offline
[3:30:13] Speaker 1: space to discuss these topics.
[3:30:15] Speaker 8: You know.
[3:30:17] Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, So I don't want to take too much
[3:30:20] Speaker 7: of your time up and you know, the Old Testament
[3:30:24] Speaker 7: was a when you go, when you when you talk
[3:30:27] Speaker 7: about that pretty bad about the slavery, Oh my god,
[3:30:30] Speaker 7: I can't even explain it. I'm like, man, that's am
[3:30:34] Speaker 7: I going to worship a god who actually does that?
[3:30:36] Speaker 5: Like right on, like he's in it.
[3:30:39] Speaker 7: So you got to admit to yourself, this God is
[3:30:42] Speaker 7: not perfect. Are you going to continue worshiping this god?
[3:30:45] Speaker 5: That's all it is?
[3:30:46] Speaker 7: Right?
[3:30:46] Speaker 3: I agree, Yeah, I'm with you.
[3:30:48] Speaker 1: I appreciate the kind words.
[3:30:49] Speaker 5: Good.
[3:30:50] Speaker 1: Hopefully I'll get to chat chat with you sometime in
[3:30:53] Speaker 1: the discord.
[3:30:55] Speaker 8: Yeah.
[3:30:55] Speaker 7: I should be moving in as a counselor, so that
[3:30:58] Speaker 7: can help a lot of people that way.
[3:30:59] Speaker 5: That's really need it.
[3:31:01] Speaker 1: We really need counseling, all right, man. Thank you cheers friend. Yeah, yeah,
[3:31:07] Speaker 1: a big w for deconstructing. That's that's a difficult thing
[3:31:11] Speaker 1: to deal with, especially you know, it's easier when you're younger.
[3:31:15] Speaker 1: You have more time to deal with it. When you're
[3:31:19] Speaker 1: doing it. Yeah, let's try me. You're right. I think
[3:31:22] Speaker 1: when you're doing it as an adult, it's harder to
[3:31:25] Speaker 1: shake off because you've got so many years of indoctrination
[3:31:31] Speaker 1: that you have to shake off that it's a little
[3:31:33] Speaker 1: bit more work. Ziga mund to thank you so much
[3:31:37] Speaker 1: for the twenty hours super chat. Good to see it tonight.
[3:31:39] Speaker 1: I really appreciate the support, says the beginning of my
[3:31:42] Speaker 1: deconstruction was holding God and the Bible to their own
[3:31:45] Speaker 1: standard at such a good point. And I don't always
[3:31:48] Speaker 1: bring it up, but there's a lot of standards in
[3:31:50] Speaker 1: the Bible that God doesn't even follow. Like God sets
[3:31:53] Speaker 1: these laws and then he breaks them himself, which is
[3:31:56] Speaker 1: really problematic. Like even my mortal father, my father that
[3:31:59] Speaker 1: lived here on the earth, that's not God. He would
[3:32:02] Speaker 1: say to my twin brother and I lived with him
[3:32:06] Speaker 1: when we were in our later years in high school.
[3:32:09] Speaker 1: He said, I don't set any rules in this house
[3:32:11] Speaker 1: that I don't follow myself. But that's respectable. You've got
[3:32:15] Speaker 1: a god setting rules that he himself is breaking. That's
[3:32:17] Speaker 1: not respectable. Evan says, Muslims are angry tonight, must be Ramadan.
[3:32:24] Speaker 1: Here's my experience. I think a lot of Muslims come
[3:32:26] Speaker 1: to my life to watch me cook Christians. But the
[3:32:30] Speaker 1: minute I start cooking Muslims, they get all hot and
[3:32:33] Speaker 1: bothered and then they want to come up and talk
[3:32:34] Speaker 1: to me. Otherwise, like typically I can go a whole
[3:32:38] Speaker 1: night without talking to a single Muslim, but if I
[3:32:40] Speaker 1: talk to one Muslim, I know I'm going to talk
[3:32:42] Speaker 1: to five of them because they can't handle getting cooked.
[3:32:48] Speaker 1: Thank you for Mike l joining the Crack and Crew Elite.
[3:32:51] Speaker 1: You got access to the deconstruction cheat sheet and Odascordia.
[3:32:55] Speaker 1: Good to see you tonight. Friend says, I deconstructed in
[3:32:58] Speaker 1: my twenties, then married a Christian in my thirties. Oof,
[3:33:01] Speaker 1: we've been married twenty five years and he just started
[3:33:04] Speaker 1: deconstructing two years ago. Thanks for what you do is
[3:33:07] Speaker 1: really helped him. Listen, I want to help as much
[3:33:09] Speaker 1: as I possibly can, and being that you deconstructed first.
[3:33:12] Speaker 1: I assume you're going to be helpful as well, So
[3:33:15] Speaker 1: best of luck to you on that journey that is
[3:33:17] Speaker 1: a tough one. And last super chat from Cranky, get
[3:33:20] Speaker 1: to see you tonight. Cranky says nothing better than listening
[3:33:23] Speaker 1: to Justin cookthis while working on some trig and a
[3:33:28] Speaker 1: map to show off flat Earth is a non starter.
[3:33:30] Speaker 1: Hell dog, listen. We really need people in the community
[3:33:34] Speaker 1: to do the flat Earth debates because it's ridiculous.
[3:33:39] Speaker 5: It really is.
[3:33:40] Speaker 2: I used to do them, well, it gets to a
[3:33:42] Speaker 2: point where people are just to them to converse with. Yeah,
[3:33:46] Speaker 2: there when somebody's really seeing the thing in front of
[3:33:49] Speaker 2: his eyes and is delighted. But what is there too
[3:33:53] Speaker 2: long about?
[3:33:53] Speaker 3: I agree, it's too long, sick.
[3:33:57] Speaker 1: Let me get our next question here. We're gonna grab
[3:34:00] Speaker 1: Damion from the YouTube queue. Damien has been waiting for
[3:34:02] Speaker 1: quite some time, and I know there's a bunch of
[3:34:03] Speaker 1: people waiting to get in, so I'm you know, I
[3:34:05] Speaker 1: apologize that there's probably gonna be people waiting that didn't
[3:34:09] Speaker 1: get in, but I can only un oh ship Damien.
[3:34:14] Speaker 1: There's a really bad echo because I suspect them on
[3:34:16] Speaker 1: a speakerphone do you have any headphones or anything you
[3:34:18] Speaker 1: can plug in?
[3:34:22] Speaker 5: I don't, but let me see if I can.
[3:34:26] Speaker 1: Or you can turn the speaker, turn the speakerphone way down?
[3:34:31] Speaker 1: See how about now, let's see a lot of times
[3:34:35] Speaker 1: if you turned down far enough, can you go a
[3:34:38] Speaker 1: little bit more?
[3:34:39] Speaker 8: A little bit more?
[3:34:41] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[3:34:41] Speaker 8: What about now?
[3:34:42] Speaker 4: Okay, let me see if that's better. That's good enough?
[3:34:46] Speaker 3: Okay.
[3:34:47] Speaker 12: I had a philosophical approach to proving God's existence.
[3:34:51] Speaker 5: Sure, I don't know.
[3:34:51] Speaker 12: Has anyone ever run tad on you? The tad argument
[3:34:56] Speaker 12: every day?
[3:34:57] Speaker 8: Every day?
[3:34:58] Speaker 12: Not not tag, but tad. It's it's a transcendental argument
[3:35:01] Speaker 12: for Doug.
[3:35:02] Speaker 1: Oh, no, I'd love to hear it.
[3:35:03] Speaker 14: Please do.
[3:35:06] Speaker 12: Yeah, it just basically just burden burden shifts. But no,
[3:35:10] Speaker 12: I was gonna tell you my my niece went is
[3:35:12] Speaker 12: Doug's daughter. For Halloween last year. She went as the
[3:35:16] Speaker 12: Pebble's Flintstone. Yeah, I was gonna tell you. I tried
[3:35:21] Speaker 12: LEDs when I was younger, which only made sense when I.
[3:35:27] Speaker 1: Tried LSD Indeed, I agree.
[3:35:30] Speaker 12: Yeah, their beliefs were so crazy they made the Doctor
[3:35:33] Speaker 12: of the Trinity appe irrational. But no, seriously, I just
[3:35:36] Speaker 12: have one one question for you, and all honesty, I
[3:35:39] Speaker 12: love your stuff and I'll let you go with this,
[3:35:42] Speaker 12: But I was just wondering, in like a few sentences,
[3:35:45] Speaker 12: could you comment on like the cosmic forest imagery from
[3:35:49] Speaker 12: the ancient Near East and how it turns up inside
[3:35:52] Speaker 12: of the Bible, like specifically in reference to the cultic
[3:35:55] Speaker 12: practices of ancient Israel.
[3:35:58] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[3:35:58] Speaker 1: Actually, I'm gonna be my PhD dissertation on that. So
[3:36:03] Speaker 1: there's a lot of imagery from the engineery. So it
[3:36:05] Speaker 1: shows up in the way the temple is built, the
[3:36:08] Speaker 1: way the temple is built, and especially in the beginning
[3:36:11] Speaker 1: of Genesis. I'm gonna meet you real quick though while
[3:36:13] Speaker 1: I'm talking to this echoin Rebeton. So in Genesis, the
[3:36:17] Speaker 1: creation account is really interesting because it's echoing what we
[3:36:20] Speaker 1: find in the other Babylonian accounts, namely that it wasn't
[3:36:24] Speaker 1: creation out of nothing, that there was like this primordial water,
[3:36:28] Speaker 1: the waters of chaos, and that they needed to be subdued,
[3:36:32] Speaker 1: and so like in the other creation accounts, we have
[3:36:35] Speaker 1: this idea of like a God who is subduing the
[3:36:38] Speaker 1: chaos waters and defeating the monster that resides in the
[3:36:41] Speaker 1: chaos water and creating order out of nothing, and that's
[3:36:45] Speaker 1: why we have, you know, the naming in Genesis too.
[3:36:48] Speaker 1: So in the ancienteer East, things didn't really have meaning
[3:36:52] Speaker 1: or existence until it got a name. That's why you
[3:36:55] Speaker 1: see like a beginning of creation accounts that'll say things
[3:36:58] Speaker 1: like before anything was named, because naming something, putting words
[3:37:03] Speaker 1: to it, actually gave life to it. So we find
[3:37:06] Speaker 1: a lot of this showing up in Genesis, and we
[3:37:09] Speaker 1: find even like words in Hebrew that you don't catch
[3:37:13] Speaker 1: in English, like it refers to the watery abyss as
[3:37:16] Speaker 1: the ta home, which is hearkening back to this idea
[3:37:20] Speaker 1: of like a watery chaos that was primordial in pre
[3:37:23] Speaker 1: existent in the Babylonian text. And so like there's there's
[3:37:28] Speaker 1: a lot of imagery that shows up. And you find
[3:37:30] Speaker 1: a lot of imagery from the Epic of Go Gomesh
[3:37:33] Speaker 1: that shows up in the Old Testament, Like if you
[3:37:36] Speaker 1: go to Ezekiel twenty eight, Ezekiel twenty eight is describing
[3:37:40] Speaker 1: the King of Tire, similar to how the cherub Hbamba
[3:37:46] Speaker 1: Hibaba there we go is described in the Epic of Ggamesh.
[3:37:49] Speaker 1: So read Ezekiel twenty eight and then go back and
[3:37:52] Speaker 1: read the Cedar Forest imagery of the GigaMesh epic, and
[3:37:56] Speaker 1: you're it's gonna make perfect sense. It's like, oh shit,
[3:37:58] Speaker 1: he's he's making to the king attire because he's living
[3:38:01] Speaker 1: next to the Lebanese forest, which is where Humbaba was from.
[3:38:05] Speaker 1: And then in the building of the temple, you'll find
[3:38:08] Speaker 1: there's a lot of imagery in the temple and the
[3:38:10] Speaker 1: Tabernacle that shows up as well, even in the epic
[3:38:14] Speaker 1: of Go Gomesh. So the epic of Go Go Mesh
[3:38:16] Speaker 1: typically is only about twelve tablets, depending on which one
[3:38:18] Speaker 1: you're reading. Just reading through that one epic, you'll find
[3:38:22] Speaker 1: a lot of parallels with what we find in the
[3:38:25] Speaker 1: in the Old Testament, and there's there's a lot more.
[3:38:27] Speaker 1: I could go on, but I think that I don't
[3:38:30] Speaker 1: know how much you you want to hear.
[3:38:33] Speaker 8: You want to hear.
[3:38:34] Speaker 12: That's that's cool, that's great. Off some while let you
[3:38:38] Speaker 12: go and just remember w w j D stands for
[3:38:42] Speaker 12: who will justin deconvert.
[3:38:45] Speaker 1: Please Doug hell, Doug, thank you. It's always good to
[3:38:51] Speaker 1: find uh like dougites out in the wild, you know
[3:38:54] Speaker 1: what I mean. Segment says this is tilor oh, of course,
[3:38:58] Speaker 1: it's tailor. I always forget is zegglement that this is
[3:39:01] Speaker 1: tailor time. Taylor Tom, thank you so much for reminding me.
[3:39:05] Speaker 1: But please, you know, put your name in there so
[3:39:11] Speaker 1: we know. Oh well, anyway, thank you so much for
[3:39:15] Speaker 1: being here, Taylor Tom. I really appreciate you. All right,
[3:39:17] Speaker 1: let's grab our next guest in here. That's right, Hail Doug. Guys,
[3:39:25] Speaker 1: there are so many dougites and pebbles out there in
[3:39:29] Speaker 1: the world now. The message of Doug is being spread
[3:39:33] Speaker 1: far and wide. Don't you just feel the quarts of
[3:39:37] Speaker 1: Doug you know in your veins. Doug is responsible for
[3:39:42] Speaker 1: so many things. We wouldn't even have radio signals if
[3:39:44] Speaker 1: it wasn't for Doug. All early radios were dependent on
[3:39:48] Speaker 1: quartz crystals.
[3:39:49] Speaker 8: You know.
[3:39:50] Speaker 1: Doug is God, and all time is contingent on Doug
[3:39:54] Speaker 1: because quartz crystals are also how we used to do
[3:39:58] Speaker 1: early time pieces. See Doug. Doug is so dependable that
[3:40:05] Speaker 1: time is calculated based on Doug. That's how dependable Doug is.
[3:40:10] Speaker 1: I think this guest is having a little bit of
[3:40:12] Speaker 1: trouble connecting. We'll move on to our next guest and
[3:40:16] Speaker 1: we'll keep the We'll keep the train rolling here.
[3:40:22] Speaker 7: Yeah, we'll keep that.
[3:40:24] Speaker 1: Gustavo, welcome in.
[3:40:29] Speaker 6: Hello, Yeah you do.
[3:40:32] Speaker 14: Great.
[3:40:32] Speaker 6: So what's about you?
[3:40:34] Speaker 1: I'm doing good? Thank you for asking. Gustavo. Are you
[3:40:37] Speaker 1: at least eighteen? And are you a believer?
[3:40:40] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[3:40:42] Speaker 8: Cool?
[3:40:44] Speaker 1: Awesome? And what God do you believe in?
[3:40:47] Speaker 6: Christian Cool?
[3:40:49] Speaker 1: What'd be your best evidence or argument for why Christianity
[3:40:52] Speaker 1: is true?
[3:40:54] Speaker 6: There is a proof of Jesus.
[3:40:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree he existed?
[3:40:59] Speaker 3: Cool? Yeah, So what next?
[3:41:04] Speaker 6: So I want to hear you you a theory why
[3:41:08] Speaker 6: you say that God does not exist?
[3:41:11] Speaker 1: Because there's no evidence for God.
[3:41:13] Speaker 6: I want to hear you, like, what's your theory?
[3:41:18] Speaker 1: Because there's no evidence for God?
[3:41:20] Speaker 6: So, like, do you believe that Jesus?
[3:41:24] Speaker 1: I agree, Jesus existed, So so did Mohammad, So did Buddha,
[3:41:28] Speaker 1: so did a bunch of people. That doesn't mean anything
[3:41:30] Speaker 1: about God. I want to know about God, not about
[3:41:33] Speaker 1: a Jewish rabbi that got executed.
[3:41:38] Speaker 6: So you want to see God?
[3:41:41] Speaker 1: Now, I want you to to talk about the evidence
[3:41:44] Speaker 1: or the arguments for God. Just saying that Jesus existed
[3:41:47] Speaker 1: does nothing for the existence of God. Do you believe
[3:41:52] Speaker 1: that Julius Caesar is ascended? Into the heavens because the Romans,
[3:41:57] Speaker 1: the Roman historians said that Julius Caesar was deified and
[3:42:01] Speaker 1: ascended into the heavens, like we.
[3:42:07] Speaker 6: Have a solid proof of Jesus. People, So Jesus, it's
[3:42:11] Speaker 6: a proven like I know who man of course to
[3:42:13] Speaker 6: do everything like that.
[3:42:15] Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I wouldn't do that, according to the historical accounts. Yeah,
[3:42:19] Speaker 1: a lot of humans did that according to history. Have
[3:42:22] Speaker 1: you ever read about the Esclepii.
[3:42:27] Speaker 6: Nah.
[3:42:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, there's about two hundred to two hundred and fifty
[3:42:32] Speaker 1: known places referred to as a sclipi in ancient Roman,
[3:42:36] Speaker 1: in the ancient Roman Empire, where people would go to
[3:42:38] Speaker 1: get healed. And there's hundreds and hundreds of accounts of
[3:42:42] Speaker 1: people getting healed by people working at the esclepi by
[3:42:47] Speaker 1: laying hands on them and praying for them. We've got
[3:42:51] Speaker 1: other healing accounts in the Talmud too. The Talmud talks
[3:42:54] Speaker 1: about people healing, healing others, and even Emperor Vespasian in
[3:43:00] Speaker 1: to Tacitus and Setonius was out there healing people. He
[3:43:03] Speaker 1: healed a guy who was blind and a guy with
[3:43:06] Speaker 1: a lame leg using the power of therapis.
[3:43:12] Speaker 6: Okay, it is a proven fact, Like, I think we.
[3:43:18] Speaker 1: Have as much evidence for Vespasian being a miracle worker
[3:43:23] Speaker 1: as we do for Jesus. And I see Chris referring
[3:43:25] Speaker 1: to Hony the Circle Jar. He was a Jewish mystic
[3:43:29] Speaker 1: that was also known for miracles, and even his grandson,
[3:43:32] Speaker 1: Hony the Circle Jar had a grandson that was well
[3:43:35] Speaker 1: known for doing miracles too, So like these are pretty
[3:43:38] Speaker 1: mundane claims from the ancient world.
[3:43:43] Speaker 6: So like it's just the creams that there is no
[3:43:45] Speaker 6: like people did not do that, that's what you're friendly.
[3:43:48] Speaker 1: Say, Yeah, I don't think it actually happened.
[3:43:53] Speaker 6: So well, like you say there's no God, Like what
[3:43:55] Speaker 6: is a proof that there is no good? Like you
[3:43:57] Speaker 6: have no evidence of anything?
[3:43:59] Speaker 1: Like do you have evidence that the tooth fairy doesn't exist?
[3:44:03] Speaker 6: Life is not to lando we've ever seen?
[3:44:05] Speaker 1: Going try this again, I asked you a question, do
[3:44:08] Speaker 1: you have proof that the tooth fairy doesn't exist?
[3:44:12] Speaker 6: Proof of what?
[3:44:13] Speaker 1: Do you have proof that the tooth fairy does not exist?
[3:44:19] Speaker 3: No?
[3:44:20] Speaker 8: Why not?
[3:44:27] Speaker 1: Like I don't have a proof, Like I know, I'm
[3:44:29] Speaker 1: asking you why not? Why don't you.
[3:44:33] Speaker 6: I don't have a proof, Like yeah.
[3:44:35] Speaker 1: Because you can't prove non existent because Things that don't
[3:44:38] Speaker 1: exist don't have proof. Same reason why you don't have
[3:44:41] Speaker 1: proof that there's not a magic unicorn in my garage.
[3:44:44] Speaker 1: Things that don't exist don't have proof. So the burdener
[3:44:47] Speaker 1: proof is on you, not on me. If you say
[3:44:49] Speaker 1: that there's this magic eye in the sky that exists, cool,
[3:44:52] Speaker 1: give me the evidence for it.
[3:44:55] Speaker 6: Like you see life with order, like the order of
[3:44:57] Speaker 6: life the universe ever seen? Nothing's not doing me.
[3:45:01] Speaker 1: I see chaos?
[3:45:04] Speaker 6: What chaos?
[3:45:05] Speaker 1: The universe is mostly chaos? Like what all of it
[3:45:12] Speaker 1: mostly means? Almost all of it. The universe is chaos.
[3:45:16] Speaker 1: That's why life is so exceedingly hard to find, because
[3:45:21] Speaker 1: the universe is mostly chaos. Even here on the Earth.
[3:45:25] Speaker 1: What we find on the Earth is mostly chaos. Do
[3:45:27] Speaker 1: you think that the Earth was finally tuned for life?
[3:45:33] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[3:45:33] Speaker 6: We live fine, like human we live fine.
[3:45:35] Speaker 5: Like okay.
[3:45:36] Speaker 1: Do you think that natural disasters are finally tuned?
[3:45:42] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[3:45:42] Speaker 6: Like it's oh natural, like it's happening.
[3:45:45] Speaker 1: Oh oh so they're good, So okay, cool, So the
[3:45:48] Speaker 1: natural disasters are evidence of fine tuning.
[3:45:53] Speaker 6: Like you sounding like you don't want to be hot,
[3:45:56] Speaker 6: Like you soundly being hot. You sound that God disappoint
[3:46:00] Speaker 6: to you.
[3:46:00] Speaker 5: Nobody.
[3:46:02] Speaker 1: Nobody's disappointed me. Your meta analysis isn't helpful here?
[3:46:07] Speaker 6: You want?
[3:46:08] Speaker 1: So we're having those No, I don't. We're having a
[3:46:12] Speaker 1: logical conversation. This is part of the logical problem of evil.
[3:46:16] Speaker 1: Are you aware of this? Do you know what this
[3:46:18] Speaker 1: argument is?
[3:46:21] Speaker 6: Okay?
[3:46:22] Speaker 1: Okay? So your God is supposedly all good and all loving,
[3:46:26] Speaker 1: which is inconsistent with the data. You also said that
[3:46:29] Speaker 1: your God fine tuned everything, and I don't think that
[3:46:32] Speaker 1: he did. The natural disasters contradict that as well. So
[3:46:35] Speaker 1: the fact that natural disasters exist means that your God
[3:46:40] Speaker 1: didn't fine tune the planet, and it also means that
[3:46:43] Speaker 1: he's not all good and all loving.
[3:46:47] Speaker 6: How do you define all good or loving? Why do
[3:46:50] Speaker 6: you not?
[3:46:51] Speaker 1: Do you think that causing unnecessary suffering is good and loving?
[3:46:57] Speaker 6: How do you define suffering?
[3:46:59] Speaker 9: Like?
[3:46:59] Speaker 8: Do you you know what? You know?
[3:47:01] Speaker 2: What?
[3:47:02] Speaker 1: You know what suffering is? We all know what suffering is.
[3:47:05] Speaker 1: You don't need a dictionary for that. Do you think
[3:47:07] Speaker 1: that unnecessary suffering is good.
[3:47:10] Speaker 6: Suffering? The body can suffer about disputity cannot be touched.
[3:47:14] Speaker 1: That's adorable. We're talking about unnecessary suffering.
[3:47:18] Speaker 6: Do you think yes?
[3:47:20] Speaker 1: Do you think unnecessary suffering is good.
[3:47:24] Speaker 6: I can't suffer because I'm a speechy.
[3:47:26] Speaker 1: But yes or no? Do you think that unnecessary suffering
[3:47:30] Speaker 1: is good? And if you don't think you can suffer,
[3:47:32] Speaker 1: I got news for you. If I put a couple
[3:47:35] Speaker 1: of needles in your eyeballs, you're gonna suffer.
[3:47:39] Speaker 6: Nah in the body WELTI dispute?
[3:47:42] Speaker 1: Okay, So then Jesus didn't suffer for your sins?
[3:47:45] Speaker 8: Did he?
[3:47:48] Speaker 3: What?
[3:47:48] Speaker 2: So?
[3:47:48] Speaker 1: Then Jesus is suffering was meaningless. If there's no way
[3:47:51] Speaker 1: for you to suffer because you're a spiritual being, that
[3:47:54] Speaker 1: means jesus Is suffering was completely meaningless. Like men this like,
[3:48:00] Speaker 1: it means he didn't suffer for your sins.
[3:48:02] Speaker 3: He didn't.
[3:48:02] Speaker 1: He didn't take the punishment for your sins.
[3:48:04] Speaker 4: It was meaningless.
[3:48:06] Speaker 6: We don't know what punishment TV gets like.
[3:48:09] Speaker 1: We don't they didn't get any punishment. We don't understand
[3:48:13] Speaker 1: how you just said suffering doesn't exist.
[3:48:17] Speaker 6: Suffering does not exist, bro Like cool?
[3:48:20] Speaker 1: So, then Jesus didn't suffer for your sins.
[3:48:25] Speaker 6: You did not suffer for what?
[3:48:26] Speaker 1: Scenes cool? So Jesus Jesus? So Jesus is a clown
[3:48:32] Speaker 1: hung up on a on a cross.
[3:48:33] Speaker 6: Cool, it's a fresh deed.
[3:48:36] Speaker 1: So let me so, let me ask you a question.
[3:48:39] Speaker 1: It would be really easy. Yeah, So you're right, Joel,
[3:48:42] Speaker 1: I've been waiting to use your move.
[3:48:43] Speaker 4: This is your move.
[3:48:44] Speaker 1: So if if I bring my kid to the doctor
[3:48:47] Speaker 1: to get a polio vaccine, and there's two scenarios. The
[3:48:53] Speaker 1: first scenario is that the doctor comes to my child
[3:48:56] Speaker 1: and gives them a needle and puts it in his
[3:48:59] Speaker 1: arm and then walks away. And the second scenario is
[3:49:04] Speaker 1: the doctor comes up to my child, punches them in
[3:49:07] Speaker 1: the nose, then puts the needle in his arm, then
[3:49:09] Speaker 1: walks away. Which one of those two scenarios is good?
[3:49:15] Speaker 6: Bro Like? In human form, we see that scenario one
[3:49:21] Speaker 6: is good.
[3:49:21] Speaker 5: Like bro Like, you.
[3:49:23] Speaker 6: Cannot understand the good and the evil because you are
[3:49:26] Speaker 6: not the creator. You don't know what's so seeing cool.
[3:49:30] Speaker 1: That doesn't answer my question. My question is which of
[3:49:32] Speaker 1: those two scenarios is better.
[3:49:38] Speaker 6: Like scenario number one?
[3:49:40] Speaker 1: Why is it better?
[3:49:44] Speaker 6: Because it's like good manners?
[3:49:46] Speaker 1: Well like, you know who cares. You just said there's
[3:49:49] Speaker 1: no such thing as suffering, So why is scenario number
[3:49:52] Speaker 1: one better?
[3:49:55] Speaker 14: Bro?
[3:49:56] Speaker 6: That is human understanding?
[3:49:57] Speaker 1: That's all you have is human understanding. I'm asking why
[3:50:01] Speaker 1: is it better to not punch my child than the
[3:50:04] Speaker 1: nose when giving them a vaccine?
[3:50:08] Speaker 6: That is bad manners. That's what is bad manners like
[3:50:11] Speaker 6: the way of living, the way of living?
[3:50:13] Speaker 1: What is bad manners?
[3:50:17] Speaker 9: Like?
[3:50:17] Speaker 6: You know, like treating someone bad?
[3:50:21] Speaker 1: What's bad about it?
[3:50:22] Speaker 6: Our team?
[3:50:23] Speaker 1: Like, what's bad about it? What makes it bad?
[3:50:27] Speaker 6: Like it's called suffering to the fresh?
[3:50:30] Speaker 1: Oh it's suffering. You just said there was no suffering.
[3:50:33] Speaker 1: Oh wow, what about that?
[3:50:34] Speaker 5: The fresh?
[3:50:35] Speaker 1: I stay in the fresh You mean the flesh, not
[3:50:39] Speaker 1: the fresh, the flesh. Okay, So there's okay, So there
[3:50:44] Speaker 1: is suffering the fresh in the body. Right, So bodies
[3:50:50] Speaker 1: do suffer the body?
[3:50:52] Speaker 6: Okay?
[3:50:53] Speaker 1: Does bodily suffering matter?
[3:50:57] Speaker 6: Does?
[3:50:58] Speaker 1: Does it matter? But bodily suffering matter? Does it matter?
[3:51:08] Speaker 1: Like it's just templarily, like it's just a yes or no?
[3:51:12] Speaker 1: Does it Does it matter.
[3:51:16] Speaker 3: For me? Like?
[3:51:18] Speaker 6: Yeah, it's matter sometimes sometimes?
[3:51:20] Speaker 1: Why does it matter?
[3:51:24] Speaker 6: Because it's hot the body?
[3:51:26] Speaker 5: Like because it hurts?
[3:51:29] Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah it causes suffering. Yeah yeah, cool, And
[3:51:34] Speaker 1: you don't want suffering.
[3:51:38] Speaker 6: Nobody likes pain, but nobody likes okay.
[3:51:41] Speaker 1: Okay, So the preferable situation is that you don't cause
[3:51:45] Speaker 1: people unnecessary pain.
[3:51:48] Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't cause pain pleasant people.
[3:51:51] Speaker 1: Great, okay, so it's better to not cause pain to others, right, yeah, okay.
[3:51:57] Speaker 1: Would it be better if there wasn't unnecessary pain being
[3:52:01] Speaker 1: caused by natural disasters?
[3:52:08] Speaker 6: Yeah, it's bad somewhow. Yeah, it's cause pain.
[3:52:11] Speaker 1: I'm asking if it better? It would it be better
[3:52:13] Speaker 1: if there weren't natural disasters?
[3:52:17] Speaker 6: Yeah?
[3:52:18] Speaker 3: Okay?
[3:52:19] Speaker 1: Cool. That means God made the least preferable world, or
[3:52:22] Speaker 1: at least a non preferable world. The preferable world would
[3:52:26] Speaker 1: not have the suffering of natural disasters. That's actually what
[3:52:29] Speaker 1: we have, which is inconsistent with your God. If God
[3:52:33] Speaker 1: was real, he would want to do the most preferable thing.
[3:52:37] Speaker 6: Because Bro, God, can there you go listen listen. Bro,
[3:52:44] Speaker 6: you think you know all the things, but Bro, you
[3:52:46] Speaker 6: don't know.
[3:52:46] Speaker 1: It's really easy. Gustavo, you spend all that time yapping
[3:52:51] Speaker 1: in the comments, bring me up, bring me up, just
[3:52:53] Speaker 1: to do this, like could you could you imagine like
[3:52:58] Speaker 1: sitting on the sideline watching a football game, like you're
[3:53:02] Speaker 1: patted up. You're like, coach, put me in, I'm ready
[3:53:04] Speaker 1: to I'm ready to cook and then you get in
[3:53:06] Speaker 1: and you get clotheslined on the first play. It's not
[3:53:09] Speaker 1: a good look, Bro, it's a program with you.
[3:53:12] Speaker 6: You focus on the on the body, Bro, everything's about
[3:53:14] Speaker 6: the body. The bad does not leave the tenanty. Bro,
[3:53:16] Speaker 6: you with this peaty? Bro, why are you so difficult
[3:53:18] Speaker 6: on this team?
[3:53:19] Speaker 1: The bad is actually really important? Like why b because
[3:53:24] Speaker 1: your definition of God excludes by your definition of God
[3:53:30] Speaker 1: excludes the bad, you can't have an all good God
[3:53:35] Speaker 1: that causes unnecessary bad things. Speaking of bad things, bad religion,
[3:53:40] Speaker 1: thank you for giving away four memberships, Big w.
[3:53:45] Speaker 5: So, like you, we have seen us.
[3:53:47] Speaker 6: So you want God to do good to us, like
[3:53:49] Speaker 6: we don't want to listen to him like you, you say, God,
[3:53:51] Speaker 6: there's nothing depa to you. Like you make those sense.
[3:53:54] Speaker 1: It's not a matter of God doing good. It's a
[3:53:57] Speaker 1: matter of the design of the earth. Right, So if
[3:54:01] Speaker 1: I if I built a house, right, let's imagine that
[3:54:04] Speaker 1: I'm going to adopt a hundred kids. I'm going to
[3:54:06] Speaker 1: build a big house for all my one hundred kids
[3:54:08] Speaker 1: to live in. If I filled that house with like
[3:54:12] Speaker 1: toxic gases and food that would poison them if they
[3:54:17] Speaker 1: ate it, And like you know, every once in a while,
[3:54:21] Speaker 1: the ceiling will just fall down in one of the
[3:54:23] Speaker 1: bedrooms and hurt people. Am I good for making that house?
[3:54:29] Speaker 8: No? No, I'm not good.
[3:54:30] Speaker 1: Why and why am I not good?
[3:54:34] Speaker 6: You know the creation at the first time.
[3:54:37] Speaker 1: Just focus. We're not done with the analogy yet. Why
[3:54:41] Speaker 1: would I be bad for making that house?
[3:54:44] Speaker 6: Because you quote suffering to the people.
[3:54:46] Speaker 1: That's right, because I'm causing suffering. Yeah, you can't be
[3:54:49] Speaker 1: all good while causing unnecessary suffering. You finally figured it out.
[3:54:52] Speaker 6: Be cool, there you go, like abroation, I create you
[3:54:57] Speaker 6: you my chie Gin's okay, I put you some like
[3:55:01] Speaker 6: listen to me, like you don't want to listen to me. Indeed,
[3:55:04] Speaker 6: when you don't listen to me, you invite evil in
[3:55:07] Speaker 6: your lives. So the day, No, you don't.
[3:55:10] Speaker 1: The consequence, the consequence of sin is decided by God.
[3:55:14] Speaker 1: Nobody decides that consequence. It's not a it's not a
[3:55:17] Speaker 1: natural consequence. God didn't have to make natural disasters. You're
[3:55:22] Speaker 1: saying because human You're saying, because human sin, God has
[3:55:26] Speaker 1: to create natural disasters. But he doesn't have to. No,
[3:55:29] Speaker 1: he did not create He did God evils?
[3:55:33] Speaker 8: Did God?
[3:55:34] Speaker 1: Did God create the earth?
[3:55:38] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[3:55:38] Speaker 1: Did he create the way the earth works?
[3:55:43] Speaker 8: Yeah?
[3:55:43] Speaker 1: Could he have created the earth in a way which
[3:55:45] Speaker 1: there wouldn't be natural disasters?
[3:55:47] Speaker 5: Ever?
[3:55:50] Speaker 6: Bro reason first, it's a yes or no.
[3:55:52] Speaker 1: Could he have created the earth in which a way
[3:55:55] Speaker 1: in which there would never be natural disasters?
[3:55:59] Speaker 5: Can do that? Yeah?
[3:56:01] Speaker 1: Because you already think he did it temporarily. Okay, So
[3:56:04] Speaker 1: when he undid that, when he said, Okay, now that
[3:56:07] Speaker 1: you've sinned, I'm going to remake the earth so that
[3:56:11] Speaker 1: there are natural disasters, did he have to do that
[3:56:14] Speaker 1: or did he choose.
[3:56:15] Speaker 8: To do it?
[3:56:18] Speaker 6: Because you turn against him?
[3:56:20] Speaker 1: Like, nope, Why that's not my question. My question is
[3:56:23] Speaker 1: did he have to do that or did he choose.
[3:56:25] Speaker 5: To do it?
[3:56:29] Speaker 6: Because he said this like on the Bible that it's.
[3:56:33] Speaker 1: Almost like you didn't hear my question. Did he have
[3:56:35] Speaker 1: to do it or did he choose to do it?
[3:56:40] Speaker 2: He have to do it?
[3:56:41] Speaker 1: He had to, so he's not all powerful. Then something's
[3:56:44] Speaker 1: forcing his hand. Why did God have to make natural disasters.
[3:56:50] Speaker 6: Because he does not cooperate with evil?
[3:56:53] Speaker 1: Well, cooperating with evil has nothing to do with making
[3:56:56] Speaker 1: natural disasters. You know, babies die in natural disasters, right,
[3:57:00] Speaker 1: our babies?
[3:57:00] Speaker 8: Evil?
[3:57:03] Speaker 3: No?
[3:57:04] Speaker 1: Okay, cool. So God didn't have to make the natural disasters,
[3:57:07] Speaker 1: did he?
[3:57:10] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[3:57:11] Speaker 1: Why, bro?
[3:57:15] Speaker 6: Because the princess of God, like when you, when we're
[3:57:19] Speaker 6: seen like you gets far away, which it seemed vite evil.
[3:57:22] Speaker 1: Bro, that's the devil that didn't answer my question. Devil
[3:57:25] Speaker 1: has nothing to do with that. I'm saying, when Adam
[3:57:27] Speaker 1: and Eve sinned, why did he have to then create
[3:57:30] Speaker 1: natural disasters?
[3:57:34] Speaker 6: Because I'm seeing and it's not bringing God.
[3:57:37] Speaker 5: God, you do this not to me?
[3:57:38] Speaker 6: Like you, bro, you're comparing to God.
[3:57:40] Speaker 1: Like you can't actually answer the question. I knew you
[3:57:42] Speaker 1: couldn't answer the question. Just admit the obvious. God didn't
[3:57:47] Speaker 1: have to create natural disasters. He chose to do it.
[3:57:51] Speaker 9: Yes, he chose to do it.
[3:57:52] Speaker 1: Because there you go, like, finally you're honest. Okay, So
[3:57:56] Speaker 1: he chose to create natural disasters. He didn't have to
[3:57:58] Speaker 1: create natural disasters, is cool. That means natural disasters are
[3:58:03] Speaker 1: not necessary, which means God is causing unnecessary suffering, which
[3:58:08] Speaker 1: means he doesn't fit the definition of omni benevolence.
[3:58:13] Speaker 6: You lead the Bible, well, I know you lead the Bible.
[3:58:15] Speaker 6: The Bible say creating that if you go against God,
[3:58:18] Speaker 6: you go outside of it, which will course you subbing
[3:58:21] Speaker 6: in pain.
[3:58:22] Speaker 1: But none of that has to do with natural disasters.
[3:58:24] Speaker 1: God is the one who decided what the consequences would be. Right,
[3:58:28] Speaker 1: So like if my if I just listen, GUSTAVO, if
[3:58:32] Speaker 1: I told my child, listen, if you go to school
[3:58:36] Speaker 1: and you don't get a's on your report cards, there's
[3:58:39] Speaker 1: gonna be suffering. Now, I have two choices at that
[3:58:43] Speaker 1: point as a parent. I could make the suffering. I
[3:58:45] Speaker 1: don't know, maybe you get grounded for a day or two.
[3:58:48] Speaker 1: That's not a fair punishment, by the way. But my
[3:58:52] Speaker 1: other option is, Okay, when you come home and you
[3:58:54] Speaker 1: don't get all a's on a report card, then I'm
[3:58:57] Speaker 1: gonna actually string you up by your toes from the
[3:58:59] Speaker 1: ceiling and give you forty lashes. Now, I warned him
[3:59:03] Speaker 1: that there would be suffering if he didn't get all a's.
[3:59:05] Speaker 1: Am I fair for tying him up by his toes
[3:59:08] Speaker 1: and giving him lashings?
[3:59:11] Speaker 6: No, it's not a favor. I understand your opinion. And
[3:59:14] Speaker 6: you say that God is bad.
[3:59:16] Speaker 8: There you go.
[3:59:17] Speaker 1: So if that amount of suffering is not necessary.
[3:59:21] Speaker 6: Could should be good? I see he should be good.
[3:59:26] Speaker 8: I do this bad?
[3:59:27] Speaker 6: Good? Forgive me I do this God wise by it
[3:59:34] Speaker 6: seems should be great. It seems to be broady.
[3:59:37] Speaker 1: I never said that. I never said that everything should
[3:59:40] Speaker 1: be great. What I said is that God doesn't fit
[3:59:43] Speaker 1: the definition of being all good if he creates unnecessary suffering.
[3:59:49] Speaker 1: Now it might be that some suffering is necessary. I'm
[3:59:52] Speaker 1: fine with that notion. I'm talking about unnecessary suffering.
[4:00:05] Speaker 5: All right.
[4:00:05] Speaker 1: Well, listen, Gustavo. It's eleven o'clock. You didn't bring any
[4:00:08] Speaker 1: boots for this hike, and I gotta get to bed.
[4:00:11] Speaker 1: I got a worker early in the morning, so thanks
[4:00:13] Speaker 1: for coming up next time. You know, just remember a
[4:00:17] Speaker 1: lion in the comments and a lamb in the box
[4:00:19] Speaker 1: never looks good. So you know, maybe tone down your
[4:00:22] Speaker 1: comments while you're in the comments and you won't get
[4:00:24] Speaker 1: called out publicly. Always, guys, thank you for being here. Also,
[4:00:32] Speaker 1: Small Johnson, good to see your friends. Small Dresson says,
[4:00:34] Speaker 1: I love to hear those muslim sizzle. Keep cooking, guys,
[4:00:37] Speaker 1: We're going to. We're absolutely going to. And Chris says
[4:00:41] Speaker 1: new argument for God's existence. Just look at the tape.
[4:00:44] Speaker 1: Just look at the tape, worms, Could you imagine God
[4:00:49] Speaker 1: in heaven? Hey, let's talk about this design.
[4:00:51] Speaker 5: Guys.
[4:00:52] Speaker 1: Let's make sure that there's parasites that crawl up through
[4:00:55] Speaker 1: your Wretha youurethra if they're in the wrong water, and
[4:00:58] Speaker 1: that if they swallow the wrong food they'll get tapeworms.
[4:01:02] Speaker 1: And Kay, thank you so much for the five hours
[4:01:05] Speaker 1: over cash, Op, I really appreciate that. And Cranky, thank
[4:01:08] Speaker 1: you so much, my friend for sending up five Deconstruction
[4:01:11] Speaker 1: Zone memberships. Big w thank you for being generous. And
[4:01:16] Speaker 1: Mike says, I'm sixty two and just out six months,
[4:01:22] Speaker 1: so you've just deconstructed six months. Praise Doug. My kids
[4:01:25] Speaker 1: don't buy the BS. Happy to see so many others
[4:01:28] Speaker 1: getting out earlier or any age. I'm with you. I
[4:01:32] Speaker 1: wish I had wised up sooner, but I definitely don't
[4:01:36] Speaker 1: regret doing everything I've done. I don't regret going through
[4:01:40] Speaker 1: the educational process and getting to learn the history and
[4:01:43] Speaker 1: the book because it equips me to.
[4:01:46] Speaker 4: Free other people from the nonsense, you know what I mean.
[4:01:49] Speaker 1: Thank you for Sharon. I appreciate the support. And Evan says,
[4:01:53] Speaker 1: parade baby dressing for your salad, sir, listen, suffering doesn't matter, okay, butk,
[4:02:00] Speaker 1: thank you so much. For the lightfish. I appreciate that,
[4:02:02] Speaker 1: big w All right, guys, listen, if you're not following
[4:02:06] Speaker 1: M yet on TikTok, I don't know what you're waiting for.
[4:02:10] Speaker 1: And speaking of TikTok, who's live right now? That we
[4:02:13] Speaker 1: can go raidle let me see who's live?
[4:02:15] Speaker 3: One second?
[4:02:20] Speaker 1: I kind of hate this, all right, I'm sure there's
[4:02:24] Speaker 1: some people live that we can go go raid right now. Oh,
[4:02:29] Speaker 1: it got a lot of people are alive. Shoot, okay,
[4:02:32] Speaker 1: all right, let's see what's going on here. Cyber is live?
[4:02:35] Speaker 1: Is he really? I don't see him in my list.
[4:02:38] Speaker 1: Is Cyber Deconstruction live right now? Guys, give me a second.
[4:02:44] Speaker 5: I see I.
[4:02:47] Speaker 1: Don't see Cyber Deconstruction live. He's live on a different account. No, yeah,
[4:02:55] Speaker 1: Parker is live. We could raid Parker's live stream for sure.
[4:03:01] Speaker 1: Now we do also have a couple other friends that
[4:03:04] Speaker 1: we could we could raid. Let's go raid Life beyond Belief.
[4:03:07] Speaker 1: Let me pull up Life Beyond Belief. Guys, you're gonna
[4:03:09] Speaker 1: like this channel.
[4:03:14] Speaker 5: There we go.
[4:03:14] Speaker 4: One second, I'm gonna blow it up to make this
[4:03:18] Speaker 4: a little bit bigger.
[4:03:23] Speaker 5: There we go.
[4:03:23] Speaker 1: We should be able to see his screenery here Life
[4:03:26] Speaker 1: Beyond Belief is his screen name, Life Beyond Belief. Let's
[4:03:32] Speaker 1: go give him a good old Justin Raid. Guys, it
[4:03:37] Speaker 1: looks like he's got one hundred and fourteen, one hundred
[4:03:39] Speaker 1: and seventeen people in the live stream right now. I
[4:03:41] Speaker 1: don't see why we couldn't get that up over two hundred.
[4:03:45] Speaker 1: Let's go visit this young man. Let's fill his live
[4:03:47] Speaker 1: stream with the love of Doug and give him a
[4:03:50] Speaker 1: good old Justin Raid. I'll see you over there in
[4:03:53] Speaker 1: just a minute. Life Beyond Belief is the page. We're
[4:03:56] Speaker 1: at one hundred and forty, guys. Let's pop this thing
[4:03:59] Speaker 1: up over two hundred. Let's get some people over there.
[4:04:02] Speaker 1: Let's get some eyeballs on this account. He's over there
[4:04:04] Speaker 1: doing the doing Doug's work. He's doing this for all
[4:04:08] Speaker 1: of us. Let's go raid this live stream. Let's get
[4:04:11] Speaker 1: it popping. Let's get it off the chain. We're already
[4:04:14] Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy six. Let's get this thing well
[4:04:17] Speaker 1: over two hundred. Guys, we're almost there, one hundred and
[4:04:20] Speaker 1: eighty three. Let's go one hundred and eighty five. I
[4:04:24] Speaker 1: think just as we're gonna get it in just a minute.
[4:04:26] Speaker 1: One hundred and ninety six. We're almost there, almost there,
[4:04:30] Speaker 1: one hundred and ninety eight. We're on the precipice. Let's raid, Raid,
[4:04:33] Speaker 1: Rad Raid. All right, we're over too, all right, guys,
[4:04:35] Speaker 1: I'll see you over there in the live stream with
[4:04:38] Speaker 1: life beyond belief. Thank you so much, guys for being
[4:04:40] Speaker 1: here and all the kindness and love and support. We'll
[4:04:43] Speaker 1: see you again on Wednesday.

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