# 2025-10-20 LIVE DEBATE \[God is Imaginary\]

An episode of [Deconstruction Zone](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1837730286), 4 Jan 2026, 5 h 26 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/69201288/2025_10_20_18_00_15.mp3

Live debating every theist on the planet. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Get Member Perks: https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone/join https://patreon.com/Deconstruction_Zone --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUPPORT THE STREAM: https://venmo.com/u/JHCOFFEEFUND https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/JHCOFFEEFUND https://cash.app/$JHCOFFEEFUND --------------------------------------------------------------------- SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS: https://www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction.zone https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone https://www.youtube.com/@DZDebates https://www.twitch.tv/deconstructionzone_ https://www.instagram.com/deconstruction_zone/ https://clapperapp.com/Justin_DZ https://x.com/Justin_DZ_ https://discord.com/invite/WmeAmrhkxZ https://linktr.ee/justin_____ Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/deconstruction-zone--6451535/support.

## Transcript

[0:07] Speaker 1: All right, friends, I think both of our YouTube streams
[0:11] Speaker 1: are up and running. We're gonna get our TikTok stream
[0:15] Speaker 1: open in just a moment, all right, and TikTok should
[0:24] Speaker 1: be up right about now. I think we got all
[0:29] Speaker 1: the streams going. I think if we're being here friends,
[0:34] Speaker 1: it's great to see everybody. I know the stream just started.
[0:37] Speaker 1: People are gonna be filing in, so welcome in, friends.
[0:41] Speaker 1: I think it's Monday, is it not. I think it's
[0:43] Speaker 1: Monday night. Should be fun. We had a great time
[0:48] Speaker 1: this weekend, so uh have even more tonight. I'm gonna
[0:55] Speaker 1: grab before I start. We got one guest already waiting
[0:59] Speaker 1: to get in, and we've got two super chats, and
[1:02] Speaker 1: I think Dalton is here as well. Thank you so
[1:07] Speaker 1: much for the love paint, Carrie. I appreciate that. Let
[1:11] Speaker 1: me pulled Dalton in.
[1:19] Speaker 2: Hey brother, are you doing good?
[1:21] Speaker 3: Good?
[1:21] Speaker 4: How are you?
[1:22] Speaker 5: Oh?
[1:23] Speaker 2: I'm doing good this Monday.
[1:25] Speaker 1: Good good. I had adjust my audio real quick. Okay,
[1:29] Speaker 1: before we get going too much further. Everyone can hear
[1:33] Speaker 1: Dalton and everyone can hear me. Right, all the audio
[1:35] Speaker 1: is good to go. Check one, two, three, He says,
[1:44] Speaker 1: Dalton is very loud.
[1:47] Speaker 3: Here.
[1:48] Speaker 2: Maybe if I turn this down a little bit. How's that?
[1:51] Speaker 1: That's pretty good? Actually? I like that right there? Yeah,
[1:55] Speaker 1: all right, very good. You're doing some ASMR or whatever they.
[1:59] Speaker 2: Call it, barukza, don't hello, waita how long it's coming, guys?
[2:06] Speaker 2: Just give me some time.
[2:07] Speaker 1: It would be my bedtime track. Oh good, all right, guys,
[2:13] Speaker 1: let me grab our super chats and we'll get Jimmy
[2:15] Speaker 1: from the queue. Unashamed, thank you so much for the
[2:17] Speaker 1: super Jest says, was chilling with my frozen light in
[2:20] Speaker 1: the soul rehab matrix, trying to get my density to
[2:23] Speaker 1: a higher level, but got lost in all those dimensions.
[2:26] Speaker 1: Thank Doug for this cookout and for the rock solid logic,
[2:29] Speaker 1: But thank you unashamed. And yeah, and referring to that
[2:32] Speaker 1: Quantum WU video that we posted a day or two ago,
[2:36] Speaker 1: that was a wild conversation. I was legitimately lost where
[2:40] Speaker 1: he was getting this nonsense from. I'm glad you watched it, though,
[2:44] Speaker 1: and help me make a deconstruct Thank you for the
[2:45] Speaker 1: five dollars super chest, says, May Doug and Sharon give
[2:48] Speaker 1: justin their holy spirits to make pleasing aromas during tonight's cookout. Well,
[2:53] Speaker 1: thank you for the well wishes. In fact, I've got
[2:55] Speaker 1: the pleasing aroma behind me burning for Doug and Sharon
[2:59] Speaker 1: as we beak snickerdoodle. Thank you for the two hours.
[3:02] Speaker 1: Super Chest says, oh my god, you mean Doug. Hello
[3:06] Speaker 1: to you friend and Dex. Thank you so much for
[3:09] Speaker 1: sending out five DZ debate memberships, super super appreciate it,
[3:13] Speaker 1: and I will I will say I checked our memberships
[3:16] Speaker 1: at the end of the last stream, and vertical stream
[3:20] Speaker 1: is literally crushing horizontal stream in memberships. I know the
[3:24] Speaker 1: views are up on horizontal stream, but they're getting crushed
[3:27] Speaker 1: on memberships. I don't know what's going on over there. Nano,
[3:30] Speaker 1: Thank you for the five dollar euro Chat says got
[3:33] Speaker 1: pulled over last night. Before they said anything, I asked,
[3:36] Speaker 1: are you at least eighteen? And do you believe in God?
[3:39] Speaker 1: The car is still there. I'm not well. Thank God.
[3:42] Speaker 1: Someone to say put the bailly out of jail. You
[3:46] Speaker 1: should have told him it's okay. Jesus fulfilled the law
[3:49] Speaker 1: for me already. No ticket done, Brinn, Thank you for
[3:53] Speaker 1: the six sixty six. Hell Nero says, can't catch the
[3:56] Speaker 1: stream tonight, but here's a song recommendation words written over
[4:00] Speaker 1: Coffee by Riot Before, a song about the process of deconstructing.
[4:06] Speaker 1: Let me grab I forgot to do it already. I'm
[4:09] Speaker 1: going to open up a new browser. Bear with me
[4:12] Speaker 1: for one moment so I can have Discord running with me,
[4:20] Speaker 1: because my soundboard doesn't bring in any audio from my
[4:26] Speaker 1: floor browser, but it does for my Opera browser. So
[4:29] Speaker 1: I'm gonna open up Discord before I forget so I
[4:31] Speaker 1: can see what the mobs are up to. And then
[4:36] Speaker 1: now that I got it open, guys, I started, by
[4:39] Speaker 1: the way, a thread in the discord called atheist Jams.
[4:44] Speaker 1: I am now adding all these songs to the Atheist
[4:49] Speaker 1: Jams discord thread. So let me go ahead. This called
[4:56] Speaker 1: The Riot Before.
[5:01] Speaker 3: Bye.
[5:01] Speaker 1: Who's it?
[5:01] Speaker 2: Bye?
[5:04] Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sorry it's words written over coffee. That's who
[5:08] Speaker 1: it is. Okay, so it's words written over coffee. Bye,
[5:16] Speaker 1: I guess spell coffee. Right there we go, Bye The
[5:22] Speaker 1: Riot Before. These band names sometimes are hard to decipher,
[5:27] Speaker 1: and the text thank you for that, Drew, thank you
[5:29] Speaker 1: for the fight. Doar Supertest says I recently moved to
[5:31] Speaker 1: New Mexico. Doug's majesty is on a full display. Look
[5:33] Speaker 1: at the rocks A million percent lists. I don't know
[5:36] Speaker 1: how you can go out west and not see the
[5:38] Speaker 1: majesty of Doug.
[5:40] Speaker 2: I used to live in Albuquerque. It's beautiful over there, especially,
[5:44] Speaker 2: I mean if you're especially if you're right next to
[5:46] Speaker 2: the San die Crest Mountains. H Doug's glory is on
[5:49] Speaker 2: full display.
[5:50] Speaker 1: Indeed, indeed it is. I'm gonna grab two more super
[5:54] Speaker 1: chats and when we're gonna get Jimmy in here. It's
[5:56] Speaker 1: just kay, good to see you. Thank you for the
[5:58] Speaker 1: fight hour supertests. Is another day of cooking. Look an
[6:00] Speaker 1: absolutely stunning today, justin well, thank you. I appreciate that.
[6:04] Speaker 1: Watching your old streams. Do you remember praise I Am?
[6:06] Speaker 5: Do I?
[6:07] Speaker 1: Ever, he's one of my favorite crashouts. He's come and
[6:10] Speaker 1: crashed out twice on my channel. I don't know if
[6:13] Speaker 1: he'll give us the privilege of a third I would
[6:17] Speaker 1: certainly be open to it. I would certainly welcome a
[6:19] Speaker 1: third praise I Am crash out. That being said, he
[6:23] Speaker 1: owes Dalton at least one. He'll be coming for Dalton eventually.
[6:27] Speaker 2: Yay, I already had you know, Well, i'll talk about
[6:32] Speaker 2: it later. It's going to come up in the super chat.
[6:33] Speaker 1: I'm sure for sure, it will, for sure it will.
[6:36] Speaker 1: And last one for now from Lakes, thank you so much.
[6:39] Speaker 1: Lake says, being a Mormon missionary in the South, once
[6:42] Speaker 1: upon a time it had its benefits. Christians would constantly
[6:45] Speaker 1: accuse Smith and his polygamy, and I would simply say,
[6:49] Speaker 1: have you never read the Bible? Actually, that's a very
[6:52] Speaker 1: fair point in the Bible, like polygamy is like explicitly condoned.
[6:59] Speaker 1: God just says, hey, if you take a second wife,
[7:01] Speaker 1: here's what you do about it.
[7:02] Speaker 6: That's it.
[7:03] Speaker 2: Yeah, monogamy is a Greco Roman idea. The only reason
[7:07] Speaker 2: he even shows up in Christianities has nothing to do
[7:10] Speaker 2: with yahweh.
[7:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's legit. Let's get let's get Jimmy. Jimmy balls
[7:16] Speaker 1: in here. I love how you doing?
[7:24] Speaker 7: How are you guys doing well?
[7:26] Speaker 1: Can't complain, Jimmy, are you at least eighteen? And do
[7:29] Speaker 1: you believe in God?
[7:31] Speaker 2: Yes?
[7:32] Speaker 7: And yes?
[7:33] Speaker 1: Okay? And is it a particular God or like a
[7:35] Speaker 1: generic God?
[7:38] Speaker 8: For the say I believe in a particular God, I
[7:40] Speaker 8: think it is hard to make an argument for that
[7:42] Speaker 8: specific God. I'm just going to be defending, hopefully just
[7:45] Speaker 8: Theism as a whole.
[7:46] Speaker 1: Here Okay, so you're a Christian, but you have no
[7:49] Speaker 1: defense of it.
[7:52] Speaker 7: Yes, pretty much. Yeah, for the sake of this.
[7:55] Speaker 1: Okay, cool, thanks for being honest. So what's the argument?
[7:58] Speaker 8: I would say, without God, objective moral values do not exist.
[8:02] Speaker 2: And by me, go ahead.
[8:04] Speaker 1: We we don't have to argue that I don't believe
[8:06] Speaker 1: an objective moralboues.
[8:09] Speaker 7: Okay, I don't know. I've been I've been tuning into
[8:13] Speaker 7: and I don't know. This doesn't have to be a
[8:14] Speaker 7: long conversation.
[8:15] Speaker 8: You guys can get moving pretty quick, but I've tuned
[8:17] Speaker 8: into you a couple of nights.
[8:18] Speaker 5: Now.
[8:18] Speaker 7: I love your guys's approach to this.
[8:19] Speaker 8: I think it's hilarious on here, even as a Christian myself,
[8:23] Speaker 8: and I appreciate what you guys do. I think there's
[8:25] Speaker 8: no question more sublime than philosophical and religious ideologies. To me, though,
[8:31] Speaker 8: you guys bleed morality. We we condone like you know,
[8:37] Speaker 8: objective Gentleman's name in the bottom of me. But he'll say, hey,
[8:42] Speaker 8: here's this scripture. I'm sorry I'm by interrupting you.
[8:46] Speaker 1: No, I was saying his name is Dalton. You don't
[8:48] Speaker 1: have to say that.
[8:48] Speaker 7: I'm sorry that.
[8:51] Speaker 2: We believe we bleed subjective morality.
[8:54] Speaker 8: Okay, fair enough, I'll get to the point here. If
[8:56] Speaker 8: it all is subjective, I would have two questions. One,
[9:02] Speaker 8: how have we adapted this way? Why have we adapted
[9:06] Speaker 8: this way? Maybe the why isn't important under a true
[9:08] Speaker 8: subjective morality standpoint. But two, if I walked around and said, hey,
[9:14] Speaker 8: I'd like to commit this heinous act I believe it's good.
[9:17] Speaker 8: Is there any like can you do you find a
[9:22] Speaker 8: problem with that? Like at a moral level.
[9:25] Speaker 1: I mean I would, but that's my opinion. Like, no
[9:29] Speaker 1: matter what we're judging, like, we have to recognize that
[9:32] Speaker 1: it's our opinions. Like you think that you have objective morals,
[9:36] Speaker 1: and somehow your opinion is now more valid than mine.
[9:38] Speaker 1: But the reality is you don't have objective morals. You
[9:41] Speaker 1: just want objective morals to exist. But I guarantee you,
[9:44] Speaker 1: if I pressed you a little bit on the Bible,
[9:46] Speaker 1: you'll come to the conclusion that you don't actually have
[9:48] Speaker 1: objective morals. You have divine command theory.
[9:52] Speaker 7: What's divine command theory?
[9:54] Speaker 1: Divine command theory means that all morals are actually subjective,
[9:59] Speaker 1: they're subject to the of God, and good means obeying God.
[10:06] Speaker 8: Sure, yeah, maybe I've got that, But is the opposite
[10:10] Speaker 8: of that what you guys believe, which is and I'm
[10:12] Speaker 8: open mind that I'm not here.
[10:13] Speaker 7: To like do some gotcha TikTok to anything. Maybe it
[10:16] Speaker 7: may have a bad.
[10:16] Speaker 8: First guess, but do you believe it all like any
[10:20] Speaker 8: deeper meaning to some moral standpoint you have as illusory
[10:23] Speaker 8: And it's just kind of the way it is, like
[10:26] Speaker 8: I'm just kind of confused on a subjective moral standpoint.
[10:28] Speaker 1: Well that's a fair question. Listen, in subjective morals, like
[10:31] Speaker 1: you just have to admit that you don't get to
[10:33] Speaker 1: beat somebody over the head with your viewpoint. Like it
[10:36] Speaker 1: certainly is true that like, as a society you can
[10:39] Speaker 1: come together and decide like, hey, here are the boundaries
[10:42] Speaker 1: we want as a people group. That being said, like
[10:45] Speaker 1: I can't go to somebody and be like a motherfucker
[10:48] Speaker 1: if you don't hate the color red, you're wrong. I
[10:51] Speaker 1: can't do that. I don't have objective morals, right, So
[10:54] Speaker 1: that's why like working together as a species is so critical.
[10:59] Speaker 1: And the reality is most I think most people are
[11:01] Speaker 1: okay with the idea of subjective morals. If you dig
[11:04] Speaker 1: a little bit deep enough, they'll just come to the realization,
[11:08] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well I believe this is wrong because that's
[11:10] Speaker 1: how I was raised or that's part of my culture.
[11:12] Speaker 1: Like for example, I had a friend who was a
[11:14] Speaker 1: missionary I forget in one of the one of the
[11:17] Speaker 1: African countries. It's been so long, been twenty years since
[11:19] Speaker 1: I talked to him, but he said one of the
[11:21] Speaker 1: most difficult things he had was adapting to the culture there.
[11:24] Speaker 1: And he gave me a really good example. He said, so,
[11:28] Speaker 1: if you're in a tribal area, sometimes they don't wear
[11:31] Speaker 1: tops and and sometimes they they barely wear bottoms. And
[11:36] Speaker 1: so one one of the things that we started to
[11:39] Speaker 1: do when we were working with these tribes is we
[11:41] Speaker 1: started to have them dress, and so we gave them clothing.
[11:44] Speaker 1: But what did they do. Well, they would they would
[11:46] Speaker 1: cut the like the the clothing as small as possible,
[11:51] Speaker 1: just to cover the areas that the missionaries didn't like.
[11:54] Speaker 1: And what happened was the men got upset because he said,
[11:58] Speaker 1: you're making our girls look like like well, in their language,
[12:02] Speaker 1: equivalent to whoes. You're making our girls look like whoores.
[12:04] Speaker 1: It's like, what are you talking about? We're covering them
[12:06] Speaker 1: up he goes, no, no, no, no. We see what's on
[12:09] Speaker 1: American TV with with the loose women. That's how they dress, right.
[12:14] Speaker 1: So in their culture they associated that type of clothing
[12:17] Speaker 1: that just covers the minimal body parts as that's a
[12:20] Speaker 1: sign of a loose woman, right, Whereas in their culture
[12:23] Speaker 1: you could just walk around topless and no one gives
[12:25] Speaker 1: a damn. It wasn't even a moral issue. And if
[12:28] Speaker 1: you travel, you'll recognize that. You know, morals are instinctively relative,
[12:33] Speaker 1: they're subjective.
[12:35] Speaker 2: Yeah, I would also point out that I don't think
[12:38] Speaker 2: like objective morals don't just exist for us. I don't
[12:41] Speaker 2: think any theist as any objective moral standpoint.
[12:47] Speaker 8: Okay, that's pretty good. Actually i'll make because I think
[12:50] Speaker 8: I know where you're going to go with that. The
[12:52] Speaker 8: folks who believe in objective morality, you know, sort of
[12:55] Speaker 8: written on their hearts by God, don't even.
[12:57] Speaker 7: Practice this thing.
[12:58] Speaker 2: No, I'm saying that if your morals come from your God,
[13:01] Speaker 2: then it's coming from the mind of your God, then
[13:03] Speaker 2: it's not objective. It's just God's subjective.
[13:09] Speaker 8: Okay, fair enough, I'll just make this this last point
[13:12] Speaker 8: I had. I didn't want to interrupt, but I have
[13:13] Speaker 8: a crazy fucking add so when I don't get it out,
[13:16] Speaker 8: I lose it. I said that this is my final
[13:20] Speaker 8: statement here.
[13:20] Speaker 7: And then I'll move on. But the problem with me.
[13:23] Speaker 8: Is that I feel like objective morals do exist deep down,
[13:26] Speaker 8: and what I mean by that is whether you believe
[13:28] Speaker 8: in them or not, they exist. I think actions like grape, cruelty,
[13:33] Speaker 8: child abuse aren't just socially unacceptable their moral abominations. I
[13:38] Speaker 8: think some things that are really wrong. Similarly, I think love, equality,
[13:42] Speaker 8: self sacrifice are really good. And so maybe that is
[13:45] Speaker 8: just I'm calling subjective morality something objective, But uh, yeah, I.
[13:52] Speaker 2: Guess that's my stance.
[13:53] Speaker 1: No, we understand that it feels like they need to
[13:56] Speaker 1: be wrong, and you feel like they need to be
[13:58] Speaker 1: subjective or objective because saying that they're not objectively wrong
[14:02] Speaker 1: you lose the power that you once had. But the
[14:06] Speaker 1: reality is, I don't think you would like objective morals
[14:09] Speaker 1: like you said that, it feels like it should be
[14:11] Speaker 1: objectively wrong to like grape. Yet God commands graping and
[14:15] Speaker 1: causes graping in the Bible, which means it can't be
[14:18] Speaker 1: objectively wrong, or else God wouldn't be doing it, But.
[14:21] Speaker 8: Don't you lose the ability to condemn that once you
[14:23] Speaker 8: say it's all subjective, Like don't I get the don't
[14:26] Speaker 8: I allow for and acts like grape to be just
[14:30] Speaker 8: as morally okay as not graping because it all is
[14:33] Speaker 8: up to opinion.
[14:34] Speaker 7: Like in other words, we can look at nineteen.
[14:36] Speaker 8: Forties Germany who believed what they were doing was right
[14:39] Speaker 8: and say, well, that was their subjective opinion.
[14:42] Speaker 7: There's no real truth that comes out of that.
[14:45] Speaker 1: The reality is you lose the ability to say something
[14:47] Speaker 1: is right or wrong. Not me, I can still do it.
[14:50] Speaker 1: You lose the ability to look at God in Isaiah
[14:53] Speaker 1: thirteen saying He's going to have women raped and say, hey,
[14:56] Speaker 1: that's pretty shitty. You lose that ability, not me. I
[14:59] Speaker 1: still have it.
[15:01] Speaker 8: I believe, and I believe we both do have that ability,
[15:03] Speaker 8: because I do believe there is some and maybe maybe
[15:05] Speaker 8: the Bible isn't is in the correct place to start
[15:08] Speaker 8: with this kind of stuff, And maybe that's why I'm
[15:09] Speaker 8: not a good guest here, But I do believe we're
[15:11] Speaker 8: able to condemn those kind of actions.
[15:12] Speaker 2: Are you're able? Are you do you think you're able
[15:14] Speaker 2: to condemn God?
[15:18] Speaker 8: Dalton? You are a motherfucker down there. I would say, no,
[15:21] Speaker 8: I gotta be intellectually honest with you. No, I don't
[15:23] Speaker 8: believe I can. But then again, do I believe Isaiah
[15:28] Speaker 8: whatever passage you gave me was morally good. The closest,
[15:32] Speaker 8: the biggest out are the easiest thing to redeem myself
[15:35] Speaker 8: is I don't know God's plans, and that, to me
[15:38] Speaker 8: is even a theist is unsatisfactory.
[15:40] Speaker 9: Right from an argument.
[15:42] Speaker 1: Standpoint, it's a It's basically a retreat, right, it's a
[15:47] Speaker 1: retorty to I don't have an answer for this problem,
[15:49] Speaker 1: and that's fine if I mean, it's an honest thing
[15:51] Speaker 1: to say. I think it's more honest than that. People
[15:54] Speaker 1: get up here and do some results trying to justify it.
[15:57] Speaker 1: We'd rather just someone say, you know what, I don't
[15:58] Speaker 1: have an answer for it.
[16:00] Speaker 7: But what if somebody and you guys could kick me
[16:02] Speaker 7: off whenever.
[16:03] Speaker 8: What if somebody said, yeah, God is evil, you know,
[16:05] Speaker 8: he's he's omnipotent, meaning he's possibly you know, he's he
[16:08] Speaker 8: could do both good and evil.
[16:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that makes the argument here on the
[16:15] Speaker 1: theistic side, because you can actually start making sense of
[16:19] Speaker 1: the world around us once you recognize that the God
[16:22] Speaker 1: that exists is evil. But then the problem for most
[16:25] Speaker 1: theists is you have to lose your religious viewpoints and
[16:29] Speaker 1: you can't be a Christian and think that God is.
[16:31] Speaker 2: Evil biblically accurate jabweh though.
[16:35] Speaker 8: Is there biblical Uh? This is probably a question for God.
[16:39] Speaker 7: I forgot the name.
[16:40] Speaker 8: Is I got to take a man through something for this,
[16:42] Speaker 8: bucking hedd or drink a coffee? But is there is
[16:45] Speaker 8: there direct quote saying He is all good? And the
[16:48] Speaker 8: translation for good means what you and I understand as good.
[16:52] Speaker 2: I would say that John in his epistle makes the
[16:55] Speaker 2: claim that God is lightening him. Is there No, there
[16:57] Speaker 2: is no darkness, But the Hebrew Bible has God creating
[17:01] Speaker 2: evil and doing evil. So there there's just different opinions
[17:07] Speaker 2: in the Bible.
[17:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's difficult to say what the Bible says.
[17:13] Speaker 1: Like dud Army thirty two famously says He's just in
[17:16] Speaker 1: all of his ways, which we would at a minimum
[17:18] Speaker 1: then say, well, whatever God does then must be just
[17:21] Speaker 1: to do. There is a as Dalton alluded to, there's
[17:24] Speaker 1: one passage in First John that talks about the goodness
[17:29] Speaker 1: of God. But the you know, The basic issue is
[17:33] Speaker 1: that the Bible is not univocal. Some passages depict God
[17:37] Speaker 1: creating evil, and some passages say he's incapable of doing evil.
[17:43] Speaker 8: Okay, fair enough, and then thoughts about like the resurrection
[17:45] Speaker 8: of Jesus. Do you guys think it's it's bs clear?
[17:50] Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough, But it's good to hear from your friend.
[17:54] Speaker 7: I'll buff up my apologetics here and come back on.
[17:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, come on back. You're nice to talk to, all.
[17:59] Speaker 2: Right, guys, Thanks Church Fred A good way to start
[18:03] Speaker 2: the show.
[18:04] Speaker 1: Yeah he's nice, buzz. I think he's shit. Like I
[18:06] Speaker 1: tell people all the time, like you don't have to
[18:08] Speaker 1: get up here and yell, like we can disagree without
[18:10] Speaker 1: shouting at each other.
[18:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, other Christians who are wanting to call and let
[18:14] Speaker 2: him be your example.
[18:16] Speaker 1: Whereas I had a pastor that used to say you
[18:19] Speaker 1: can disagree without being disagreeable. That was I still like
[18:23] Speaker 1: the saying. It's a good saying. I think he's right.
[18:26] Speaker 1: Let's grab a couple of super jabs. We' get our
[18:28] Speaker 1: next guest here, Zen, thank you so much for the
[18:30] Speaker 1: ninety nine dollars super chat. That is Hugh Monkeys. Let's
[18:34] Speaker 1: get some ws in the chat for Zen. Thank you
[18:36] Speaker 1: so much, he says, welcome one home, Justin. I think
[18:41] Speaker 1: I'll have one home. Here's something to celebrate the Browns victory.
[18:45] Speaker 1: I know, the Browns finally did We finally got a
[18:47] Speaker 1: w guys to celebrate the Browns victory with a new
[18:50] Speaker 1: stash of krack and saw you on Atheist Experience. My
[18:53] Speaker 1: new hobby is following Justin from stream to stream, getting
[18:56] Speaker 1: harder to keep up rock hard for Doug and his
[18:58] Speaker 1: shared thank you. I appreciate you following me, jumping around
[19:03] Speaker 1: from here to AXP to the line. I mean, there'd
[19:06] Speaker 1: be some morbid but at least you know I'm only
[19:08] Speaker 1: going to be over there typically, like on a weekend.
[19:12] Speaker 2: You know, it reminds me of the Bible passage where
[19:15] Speaker 2: can I go to escape from Justin? Oh waitness, isn't
[19:18] Speaker 2: that in the Psalms?
[19:21] Speaker 1: There's a similar one in Amos nine that's neither here
[19:25] Speaker 1: nor there, talking about how you can't run from God.
[19:28] Speaker 1: But Melanie says, but do you remember the guy who
[19:31] Speaker 1: was crashing out knowing that he was muted, and then
[19:34] Speaker 1: started talking to people in the queue and you clip that.
[19:37] Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, yes, I know exactly who that is.
[19:40] Speaker 1: You're referring to Manar, King of the World. He's big,
[19:44] Speaker 1: he's beautiful, he's strong, he can do handstands. If you
[19:47] Speaker 1: have not seen the Manar crash out, you need to
[19:50] Speaker 1: go see it sometime today.
[19:52] Speaker 2: On It's on my bucket list. Now.
[19:55] Speaker 1: The schedule an hour of your time while you're doing something,
[20:00] Speaker 1: doing laundry or something. It's a one hour crash out.
[20:03] Speaker 1: It's the craziest crash out you've ever seen. I had
[20:06] Speaker 1: to put him on mute and walk away and go
[20:07] Speaker 1: to the next guest. He spent the whole hour. I
[20:10] Speaker 1: used to have a YouTube queue for guests where they
[20:14] Speaker 1: can actually talk to each other in que and I
[20:16] Speaker 1: wouldn't hear what they're doing. It was like a waiting room,
[20:19] Speaker 1: and he was in there crashing out to everybody else
[20:22] Speaker 1: in the waiting room for the next hour. It was crazy.
[20:26] Speaker 2: Poor guests.
[20:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, it was wild. Thank well, Thank you for the
[20:31] Speaker 1: ten hour supertest says members of the heretical sect of
[20:34] Speaker 1: horizontal Worship will cover the earth with the knowledge of
[20:37] Speaker 1: Glory of Doug as the water covers the sea horizontally,
[20:41] Speaker 1: not vertically fracked sideways for pebble I don't like this
[20:46] Speaker 1: development that you guys are starting new Doug sex doing
[20:50] Speaker 1: the horizontal. There is one universal Church of Doug, and
[20:54] Speaker 1: it's both horizontal and vertical. It's a duality. Doug has
[20:58] Speaker 1: a duality of stream.
[21:01] Speaker 2: Oh, it's both. It's both vertical and horizontal.
[21:05] Speaker 1: Fuck, what do we do? Oh my god, we're in trouble.
[21:08] Speaker 1: Now we're just gonna adopt everything for religion. Jeff, thank
[21:12] Speaker 1: you for the ten dollars super tests. Cussed out today
[21:14] Speaker 1: for saying I get more inspo from Maya inspiration from
[21:18] Speaker 1: Maya Angelou than Jesus. How dare me? Listen? I'm sorry
[21:22] Speaker 1: that happened to you. I have no idea who Maya
[21:24] Speaker 1: Angelou is, but I can assure you that they're more
[21:28] Speaker 1: inspiring than Jesus.
[21:30] Speaker 2: Oh don't. They're going to rip into you. My Angelou
[21:34] Speaker 2: is like she was like a Civil Rights act actor recently. Listen,
[21:41] Speaker 2: Now they're going to rip into me. I don't know
[21:44] Speaker 2: a lot about history. It's in the last fifty years.
[21:46] Speaker 2: She's really famous though.
[21:47] Speaker 1: Shit, I'm sorry, guys, I gotta be honest. I have
[21:51] Speaker 1: a two areas of specialty and I stuck to them.
[21:54] Speaker 1: I knew the assignment, and I did the assignment. Randy,
[21:59] Speaker 1: thank you for the twenty twenty Deconstruction Zone gifted memberships.
[22:04] Speaker 1: That is huge, and not just twenty twenty more Deconstruction
[22:08] Speaker 1: Zone memberships. That's forty for Deconstruction Zone. And another one, Randy,
[22:14] Speaker 1: you're the reason why vertical stream is kicking Horizontal streams
[22:18] Speaker 1: tail in memberships. Another twenty sixty Deconstruction Zone gifted memberships
[22:23] Speaker 1: tonight by Randy already and we legit just started. We
[22:27] Speaker 1: just got started. Oh my goodness. Well, thank you for that.
[22:31] Speaker 1: I'm gonna grab three more super chats and then we're
[22:33] Speaker 1: gonna get it. Looks like Doug in the YouTube queue,
[22:37] Speaker 1: Roman says, thank you for your donation. Well, Roman, thank
[22:39] Speaker 1: you for your donation. And snicker Doodoo again says I
[22:42] Speaker 1: never catched the top of your lives. Praise Doug. You're
[22:45] Speaker 1: at the top of it right now. This is the
[22:46] Speaker 1: beginning of it. It should be banging here in a
[22:49] Speaker 1: little bit. If you're watching on YouTube, there's a link
[22:51] Speaker 1: on the screen tiny dot CC four slash g d
[22:54] Speaker 1: the guest to join the clickable version of that in
[22:58] Speaker 1: the description of the video. If you're watching TikTok you
[23:00] Speaker 1: know how to get in, Just hit the guest request button.
[23:03] Speaker 1: Miss Pickle says, poor Dalton had a wild Courtney interaction yesterday.
[23:07] Speaker 1: She's a looney tuney as ever, she's as looney to me.
[23:11] Speaker 2: There it is. I knew it would be in the
[23:13] Speaker 2: common I knew it would be in the conversation. Eventually, Yeah,
[23:16] Speaker 2: it was something else. I feel like I was christened.
[23:19] Speaker 1: I thought it was great. I was in the kitchen
[23:22] Speaker 1: cooking chicken and making food, just watching Dalton do his thing.
[23:27] Speaker 1: It was fantastic. I think. I think it did great.
[23:29] Speaker 1: And she she always gets a little bit hype, and
[23:31] Speaker 1: then when you say something that is outside of her script,
[23:34] Speaker 1: she gets all offended. Doug Brown, thank you for the
[23:37] Speaker 1: fight our supertest says as a prophet of Doug, our
[23:39] Speaker 1: igneous Lord and Savior asked me to commend you on
[23:43] Speaker 1: the delightful aroma of barbecued Christians. Well, thank you, Doug,
[23:47] Speaker 1: I really do appreciate that. And guys, the the Gifted
[23:51] Speaker 1: membership war rages on. No go apostate, No go apostate.
[23:56] Speaker 1: Oh I just clicked it because he sent too many.
[23:58] Speaker 1: Thank you for the twenty hour supergenes, says Hey you
[24:00] Speaker 1: just can't join the show. Keep up the good work. Well,
[24:02] Speaker 1: thank you, nokoh, I appreciate that. And he sent out
[24:05] Speaker 1: five Deconstruction Zone memberships. Guys, the Deconstruction Zone memberships are
[24:11] Speaker 1: taking the lunch of DZ Debate memberships. I mean, it's
[24:16] Speaker 1: it's just it's like not even close at this point,
[24:19] Speaker 1: at least double All right, let's see if Doug can
[24:22] Speaker 1: enter the chat. How you doing, is it Douglas?
[24:26] Speaker 2: Doug is good?
[24:29] Speaker 1: Oh, Doug is good? Okay, I'm sorry, it looked like
[24:31] Speaker 1: Doug ls good.
[24:33] Speaker 10: Oh capitalize it.
[24:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, so the font on my screen makes it difficult
[24:39] Speaker 1: to determine an L from an S.
[24:41] Speaker 11: You know, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
[24:44] Speaker 12: I just uh a short time fan of the show.
[24:47] Speaker 12: I just had a quick question for you, since you're
[24:49] Speaker 12: really like knowledgeable on all this stuff. I've never heard
[24:52] Speaker 12: anybody talk about the story that's I believe in kings,
[24:56] Speaker 12: and you'll have to excuse my memory, but there's like
[25:00] Speaker 12: a king that goes out, he goes to battle, makes
[25:02] Speaker 12: a covenant with God, and that he'll sacrifice the first
[25:05] Speaker 12: thing he sees when he opens the door when.
[25:07] Speaker 11: He comes home.
[25:09] Speaker 1: Judges eleven, Judges eleven, yeah.
[25:15] Speaker 12: Is that not like the craziest shit ever, because then
[25:18] Speaker 12: like when he commands Abraham to do it.
[25:19] Speaker 1: As yes, yeah, So I mean, I'll pause you there.
[25:24] Speaker 1: Your reception is really bad, so I'm only making out
[25:27] Speaker 1: every other word that being said, I know exactly what
[25:30] Speaker 1: you're talking about, and I'll fill you in. Okay, yeah, okay.
[25:34] Speaker 1: So in Judge eleven, Jeptha makes a vow. He says, God,
[25:38] Speaker 1: if you give me victory in this war, I'll sacrifice
[25:41] Speaker 1: to you the first thing that exits my house when
[25:43] Speaker 1: I come back from war, assuming it was an animal.
[25:46] Speaker 1: I don't know if people realize this, but typically the
[25:48] Speaker 1: lower end of the house you would have livestock. The
[25:52] Speaker 1: problem was his daughter ran out to meet him, happy
[25:54] Speaker 1: that he was back from war, and he had to
[25:57] Speaker 1: end up sacrificing his daughter. And she went out on
[26:00] Speaker 1: the mountain and bemoaned and bewailed that she would die
[26:03] Speaker 1: a virgin, and then she came back for some time
[26:06] Speaker 1: and was sacrificed. And this is the explanation for the
[26:09] Speaker 1: morning ritual. There evidently was in Southern Palestine some sort
[26:14] Speaker 1: of a mourning ritual? Was it Southern Palestine? After a
[26:17] Speaker 1: double check where Jeptho lived. There's a morning ritual in
[26:20] Speaker 1: the region in ancient times, and this apparently is the
[26:24] Speaker 1: explanation for why that morning ritual existed. Is this a
[26:28] Speaker 1: real story. I don't think so.
[26:30] Speaker 2: No.
[26:30] Speaker 1: I think it's a contrived story to explain the morning ritual,
[26:33] Speaker 1: that's all. What's the morning I don't like the morning
[26:39] Speaker 1: ritual was there. There was all kinds of rituals in
[26:42] Speaker 1: the ancient world to mourn various things like babies that
[26:47] Speaker 1: didn't make it, or women that died virgins, or women
[26:50] Speaker 1: that died childless, lots of things that were considered you know,
[26:55] Speaker 1: horrific things to have to live through.
[26:59] Speaker 12: Okay, right, Yeah, I was just curious about that one.
[27:02] Speaker 10: I had read it.
[27:03] Speaker 12: I'm like going to cover to cover on the Bible
[27:06] Speaker 12: game just to see how crazy it really is.
[27:08] Speaker 1: So that's pretty crazy. Well, it's good to hear from me.
[27:11] Speaker 1: I have a great day.
[27:13] Speaker 11: Thanks you too.
[27:14] Speaker 1: Truth All right, I'm gonna grab three exactly three super chats.
[27:19] Speaker 1: We're gonna get toast Man in here next. Varren says, Justin,
[27:22] Speaker 1: would you ever consider starting a series teacher teacher him
[27:27] Speaker 1: Biblical Hebrews. I think you mean teaching Biblical Hebrew, and
[27:31] Speaker 1: you know, I've considered it. The problem is we already
[27:33] Speaker 1: have so many qualified people doing it that you can
[27:36] Speaker 1: take their class. So right now, doctor Josh Bowen is
[27:39] Speaker 1: already doing a class, and there's quite a few TikToker
[27:42] Speaker 1: has already taken it that you might know thinkers in
[27:44] Speaker 1: the class. And the reality is somebody like Josh is
[27:47] Speaker 1: really gonna be able to do a way better job
[27:49] Speaker 1: than I can. Like so, like I could probably teach
[27:52] Speaker 1: like a Hebrew one oh one one o two type classes,
[27:55] Speaker 1: but if you really want to get nitty gritty on
[27:57] Speaker 1: the grammar, you need someone like doctor Josh Bowen, and
[28:00] Speaker 1: I can equip you essentially with the basics and then
[28:04] Speaker 1: beyond that, you know, it's kind of up to you.
[28:06] Speaker 1: It depends on what you want to do with it.
[28:08] Speaker 1: If you want to actually read the Hebrew Bible, that
[28:10] Speaker 1: would be one way. If you want to be able
[28:12] Speaker 1: to speak Hebrew, I mean honestly, you can get dual Lingo,
[28:16] Speaker 1: du A Lingo or Rosetta Stone and you can learn
[28:19] Speaker 1: to speak Hebrew pretty quick. And about seventy percent of
[28:22] Speaker 1: modern Hebrew crosses over with with biblical Hebrew.
[28:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, I got I got Rosetta Stone to do just that,
[28:30] Speaker 2: although I think I might. I'm contemplating possibly doing like
[28:34] Speaker 2: a podcast. Also, I think at the end of every
[28:39] Speaker 2: podcast I might like a Hebrew word of the day
[28:41] Speaker 2: sort of thing like Seme Street.
[28:44] Speaker 1: Your MC cut out for some reason. I don't know
[28:48] Speaker 1: if you need. You might need a different cable. I
[28:49] Speaker 1: wonder if that cable is having problem. Jennifer suys, look
[28:53] Speaker 1: at the rocks, happy to be here, sizzle. Well, thank you, Jennifer,
[28:57] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Good to hear from you. And last
[28:59] Speaker 1: one from FAFA says Bob Thorpe, oh from yesterday from
[29:03] Speaker 1: Sunday is wild for showing his face. I know that
[29:06] Speaker 1: guy's crazy. I don't think his first name was Bob though,
[29:08] Speaker 1: was it. I think it was something I don't know
[29:10] Speaker 1: I forgot. Nevertheless, I downloaded some videos on the Internet
[29:13] Speaker 1: of some horrific shit that he said, and I'll probably
[29:16] Speaker 1: be publishing those here eventually. Yeah, it's crazy that he
[29:22] Speaker 1: has the goal to do what he does and then
[29:23] Speaker 1: show up on the internet anywhere. Apparently he called in
[29:26] Speaker 1: on Matt del Honey Show that night too. Let's get
[29:31] Speaker 1: toast man in here. I think we've spoken to toast
[29:33] Speaker 1: Man before. Yeah, how you doing, toast Man?
[29:44] Speaker 9: What's up?
[29:44] Speaker 3: What's the what's the dilemma of the day.
[29:47] Speaker 1: I don't think there's a dilemma. The claim of the
[29:50] Speaker 1: day is your God is imaginary? Toast Man, I forget.
[29:53] Speaker 2: Are you a Christian?
[29:56] Speaker 9: Yes?
[29:58] Speaker 1: Cool? Do you have any evidence or argument that would
[30:03] Speaker 1: warrant the claim that your God is real?
[30:08] Speaker 3: Let's see I think our last time I tried step
[30:11] Speaker 3: my foot into the cosmological argument. I appeal to the irreducible,
[30:21] Speaker 3: irreducible complexity of life forms on this planet.
[30:26] Speaker 1: Can you demonstrate that there is such a thing? Because
[30:28] Speaker 1: it sounds like an argument from ignorance, like you don't
[30:31] Speaker 1: understand evolution? There for a god?
[30:35] Speaker 3: You got me there? No, I don't. I don't fully
[30:37] Speaker 3: understand it. I understand the thumbnail.
[30:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say, what you know. One of the
[30:45] Speaker 1: things I used to say a lot and I you know,
[30:47] Speaker 1: I should start picking it back up again, is even
[30:50] Speaker 1: if evolution would like turned out to be wrong, like,
[30:53] Speaker 1: it still wouldn't mean that your God is real, like
[30:55] Speaker 1: you still need you need to have an actual argument
[30:59] Speaker 1: positively for your deity rather than just saying I don't
[31:01] Speaker 1: like evolution, you know, yeah.
[31:04] Speaker 2: Like you know, it's you would never see someone who's
[31:06] Speaker 2: trying to support evolution by trying to like talk shit
[31:11] Speaker 2: about creationism, because evolution consent is on two feet, so
[31:15] Speaker 2: the same should be true in the reverse.
[31:19] Speaker 1: That's a very good point.
[31:20] Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, Well, I confess I don't have a requisite
[31:24] Speaker 3: debating skills or information at my fingertips.
[31:31] Speaker 1: That's okay. I mean at least you're, uh, you're coming
[31:33] Speaker 1: up here and being honest. That's all we can ask for.
[31:37] Speaker 3: Yeah, I missed. What were you talking about before?
[31:42] Speaker 11: Before?
[31:43] Speaker 3: When I mean, who was the last person to come
[31:46] Speaker 3: up and got slayed?
[31:48] Speaker 1: Well, we had a young man come up that want
[31:51] Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about objective morals, but it
[31:54] Speaker 1: I think you and I already covered.
[31:56] Speaker 3: That objective morals. Okay, okay? Did anybody clarify that scripture
[32:07] Speaker 3: and DEUTERI pretty good about the man who rapes a
[32:16] Speaker 3: virgin has to marry her and pay the bride price?
[32:20] Speaker 1: Did youd on me? Twenty two eight?
[32:23] Speaker 11: Yeah?
[32:24] Speaker 2: That's it? What about it?
[32:27] Speaker 3: Did you guys? Did you clarify that one or did
[32:29] Speaker 3: you just kind of leave that one?
[32:32] Speaker 4: What do you?
[32:34] Speaker 9: Well?
[32:34] Speaker 3: I mean, I've heard a lot of other atheists bring
[32:38] Speaker 3: bring that up is one of the scriptures that seems
[32:40] Speaker 3: unjust to make a woman marry her rapist, And that's
[32:44] Speaker 3: an incorrect interpretation of the Hebrew translation of that scripture.
[32:52] Speaker 1: To be sure, I don't bring that up only because
[32:55] Speaker 1: it is possible to read that two different ways. That
[32:58] Speaker 1: being said, like most people who know Hebrew, like actually
[33:02] Speaker 1: know Hebrew, not pretending to know Hebrew, would recognize that
[33:06] Speaker 1: this is something that's happening by force, So to faz
[33:10] Speaker 1: typically means to wield by force, the same like in
[33:13] Speaker 1: Deuteronomy twenty when it talks about going out to capture cities,
[33:16] Speaker 1: it uses the same word.
[33:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, So I'd be interested to know what you think
[33:23] Speaker 2: it is that is being misrepresented in the Hebrew of
[33:26] Speaker 2: Deuteronomy twenty two.
[33:31] Speaker 1: I think, if I, if I had to guess, he's
[33:33] Speaker 1: probably gonna say that seizing doesn't mean, doesn't have to
[33:37] Speaker 1: mean by force.
[33:41] Speaker 2: Every other serne, Oh, I guess, every other context of
[33:43] Speaker 2: it seems to imply that. So why would we think
[33:46] Speaker 2: any differently here?
[33:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, Now it is used in it's used in certain
[33:57] Speaker 1: context like picking up swords, like grabbing hold of a
[34:01] Speaker 1: sword and there has been some argumentation made about, like
[34:06] Speaker 1: when it says that she's become defiled. I forget how
[34:09] Speaker 1: they conjugate the word. But the root word is a knee,
[34:11] Speaker 1: which means to diminished, to make small, to lower, And
[34:17] Speaker 1: that certainly could be used of somebody who has graped.
[34:20] Speaker 1: It's used of Tamar when she is when she's graped
[34:24] Speaker 1: by Abnon. But what are you gonna say, Tasman.
[34:29] Speaker 3: No, No, you have the word right. It can mean
[34:33] Speaker 3: a couple different things, right.
[34:35] Speaker 1: But that's why I don't bring that up, because it's
[34:37] Speaker 1: not worth It's not worth arguing about. There's plenty of
[34:39] Speaker 1: other occasions, Like, there's plenty of other like really solid
[34:43] Speaker 1: arguments other than that one. I think that's more of
[34:46] Speaker 1: a discussion item than a debate item.
[34:50] Speaker 3: Okay, well I'll leave that alone. It was just and
[34:54] Speaker 3: there's another atheist, TikToker, who was talking about I forget
[35:00] Speaker 3: the verse. It was something forty five seven, that one.
[35:05] Speaker 2: Where I the Lord create good and evil.
[35:08] Speaker 3: That's the one.
[35:10] Speaker 1: What about it?
[35:10] Speaker 3: That's the one?
[35:11] Speaker 5: Well?
[35:11] Speaker 3: His his, his when he was putting forward was how
[35:18] Speaker 3: can God have how can God himself have free will
[35:24] Speaker 3: and not be evil?
[35:26] Speaker 1: I was like what, Yeah, So what he's suggesting is
[35:30] Speaker 1: if God has complete free will, meaning he can do
[35:33] Speaker 1: anything that's logically possible, that means it's logically possible for
[35:38] Speaker 1: him to do evil stuff. And of course, the Bible
[35:40] Speaker 1: describes him doing things that are evil when he in
[35:42] Speaker 1: a second Samuel twenty four, when he kills seventy thousand Israelites.
[35:46] Speaker 1: For David's census, it's referred to in Hebrew as raj,
[35:52] Speaker 1: referred to as evil or bad. And so God certainly
[35:56] Speaker 1: does stuff in the Bible that is described by the
[35:59] Speaker 1: Bible as being raw. And so the problem that we
[36:03] Speaker 1: have in English is we like to think there's a
[36:04] Speaker 1: difference between the word bad and the word evil, but
[36:07] Speaker 1: in Hebrew it's basically the same thing.
[36:11] Speaker 3: Oh wow, Yeah, that's a tough one. I mean, that's
[36:16] Speaker 3: a tough one for us. I think, I think, uh
[36:23] Speaker 3: it it kind of if you look at it a
[36:25] Speaker 3: little deeper. The worst thing that can happen to a
[36:28] Speaker 3: person is not physical death.
[36:33] Speaker 1: So you're a abortion.
[36:36] Speaker 3: Am I okay with abortion now?
[36:38] Speaker 1: But the worst thing that can happen to you isn't
[36:40] Speaker 1: physical death. And you send the baby directly to heaven.
[36:42] Speaker 1: It seems like abortion would be like the super Christian
[36:45] Speaker 1: position to hold that way, they don't risk.
[36:47] Speaker 3: Go in the hell, Well, we don't. Humans don't have
[36:50] Speaker 3: the authority to be the causal agent of death.
[36:54] Speaker 1: So God don't forgive you forgive anything other than blasting
[36:58] Speaker 1: of the Holy Spirit.
[37:00] Speaker 2: I mean, it's the most Jesus thing you can do.
[37:01] Speaker 2: Even if he doesn't need to have sacrifice yourself for
[37:05] Speaker 2: the salvation of someone else.
[37:08] Speaker 3: That doesn't mean that's desirable by God.
[37:10] Speaker 1: Well for example, for example, in Matthew sixteen, Jesus says,
[37:17] Speaker 1: those who want to I'm sorry for those who want
[37:20] Speaker 1: to save their life will lose it, and those who
[37:22] Speaker 1: lose their life for my sake will find it. So
[37:25] Speaker 1: if I'm willing to give up my life, my salvation,
[37:28] Speaker 1: even to make sure that all the babies make it
[37:31] Speaker 1: to heaven, that seems like the most Christian thing to do.
[37:36] Speaker 3: Wait, aren't you taking a figurative thing and turning it
[37:40] Speaker 3: into something literal?
[37:41] Speaker 2: I don't think.
[37:44] Speaker 3: I don't think. I don't think Jesus meant like well,
[37:48] Speaker 3: I guess it couldn't be taken literally. Be in a
[37:52] Speaker 3: situation where you would have to give up your life.
[37:54] Speaker 2: Also, I don't think abortion necessarily would lead to damnation.
[37:59] Speaker 2: I mean, yes, it could lean to lead to a
[38:01] Speaker 2: fine according to the to the Torah, I would just
[38:04] Speaker 2: have to pay a fine. But according to the Torah,
[38:07] Speaker 2: it's not more. It's not murder.
[38:11] Speaker 3: Abortion is not murder.
[38:13] Speaker 2: No, because what's the penalty for murder? In the Torah?
[38:15] Speaker 2: What happens if you murder somebody?
[38:18] Speaker 3: You get killed?
[38:19] Speaker 2: What happens if you kill a fetus in the womb?
[38:21] Speaker 2: According to the Torah?
[38:23] Speaker 3: You know what, I don't know.
[38:24] Speaker 2: You just pay a fine?
[38:26] Speaker 3: Really, Oh, I haven't seen that. I have not seen that.
[38:31] Speaker 1: It's also true that in Numbers chapter five, God has
[38:34] Speaker 1: the Israelites do a we'ren't call it a magic potion
[38:39] Speaker 1: to determine if a woman has been unfaithful, and if
[38:41] Speaker 1: she is unfaithful and she got pregnant, it'll result in
[38:45] Speaker 1: a miscarriage or what we would call an abortion as well.
[38:48] Speaker 1: So God seems to be okay with some forms of abortion,
[38:51] Speaker 1: like if the child was born from an illessit union.
[38:55] Speaker 3: Alright, wait a minute, I remember that one. I think
[38:57] Speaker 3: that came up when I was on the game show
[39:00] Speaker 3: version of this TikTok. I don't and I look, I
[39:03] Speaker 3: think that I look that up. It doesn't exactly say
[39:08] Speaker 3: the fetus is aborted, says something about her wombs swelling,
[39:12] Speaker 3: or something that.
[39:14] Speaker 1: Says her belly will swell and her thigh will fall away,
[39:17] Speaker 1: meaning it's gonna her internals are gonna fall out. And
[39:21] Speaker 1: the what you need to know is like in Biblical Hebrew,
[39:24] Speaker 1: they don't have a word for vagina or uterus. Those
[39:26] Speaker 1: aren't like things that they had. They typically used tangential
[39:31] Speaker 1: things like thigh. It'll say thigh for referring to the
[39:35] Speaker 1: genitals of an individual rather than saying genitals. You know
[39:39] Speaker 1: what I mean.
[39:40] Speaker 3: Okay, I just learned something. Yeah, well I'll get it.
[39:47] Speaker 3: But well, you know what do they say? The permissive will?
[39:53] Speaker 3: The permissive will of God? It's you know, obviously these
[39:58] Speaker 3: are things I don't personally comprehend. Yeah, buddy, it is interesting.
[40:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, what God demands VERSEU what he allows? Well, it
[40:07] Speaker 1: is interesting. But toastman, I think we need to get
[40:09] Speaker 1: someone up here that's gonna argue and shout at me.
[40:12] Speaker 5: You know what I mean?
[40:12] Speaker 1: We got to get you.
[40:13] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's more. That's more fun to listen to.
[40:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, listen, you're nice. I like shooting the
[40:19] Speaker 1: breeze with you. But I think everyone came for came
[40:23] Speaker 1: for a show.
[40:23] Speaker 5: You know.
[40:24] Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, bringeth on the show.
[40:27] Speaker 1: It's good to hear from me body, all right.
[40:29] Speaker 2: Good one, you know, justin some some some people argue
[40:33] Speaker 2: that life doesn't begin until conception. Others argue life doesn't
[40:36] Speaker 2: begin until birth. I've had some older retirees tell me
[40:39] Speaker 2: life doesn't begin until they're sixty.
[40:42] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I've actually heard that myself. Yeah, now that
[40:45] Speaker 1: you've mentioned it, Oh yeah, well we'll see. We'll see
[40:49] Speaker 1: about that. Sixty is the new fifty, I think. So
[40:52] Speaker 1: does that mean life begins at fifty? I don't know.
[40:55] Speaker 1: Melanitis says, By the way, getting stoned for Doug right now,
[40:58] Speaker 1: and we love it, do it. Doug's all here for it,
[41:02] Speaker 1: and roundabout defender, round ball defenders says. I walk on
[41:05] Speaker 1: the beach in southwest Florida and love feeling the hard
[41:10] Speaker 1: grains of Doug supporting me and caressing my feet as
[41:14] Speaker 1: I gazed into the Gulf of America. Well, thank you
[41:18] Speaker 1: for that, thank you for supporting the gentlemen. Yes, don't
[41:20] Speaker 1: take Doug for granted. Let him seep into the nooks
[41:25] Speaker 1: and crannies of your feet, spurting fluid dynamics. Amazing name change,
[41:29] Speaker 1: by the way, says, just showing some love, keep exposing
[41:32] Speaker 1: Christian hypocrisy. This is Reverend Ricky Skag. I knew Ricky.
[41:35] Speaker 1: I knew you didn't change your PfP. It's a really
[41:39] Speaker 1: good news screen name though. I like that, And Steven says,
[41:43] Speaker 1: hello reality asylum by crass, great atheist song noted, my
[41:48] Speaker 1: friend noted added to the discord, and Jerry says, just
[41:52] Speaker 1: listen to your debate with Allen's and he ran the
[41:54] Speaker 1: same points. He had the exact same crash out when
[41:57] Speaker 1: he was on My Live. Are you serious, Jerry?
[42:00] Speaker 2: He came on My Life yesterday.
[42:02] Speaker 1: They never learned that. They have no intention to ever
[42:06] Speaker 1: be honest or to learn. What they want to do
[42:09] Speaker 1: is run the script as many times as possible, on
[42:11] Speaker 1: as many live streams as possible, and just see where
[42:13] Speaker 1: it works. And you know, anyone who's been around the
[42:16] Speaker 1: block knows it ain't gonna.
[42:18] Speaker 2: I guess if you shoot the arrow, I shoot the
[42:20] Speaker 2: bow long enough, you managed to hit a bulls eye eventually, right,
[42:23] Speaker 2: that's the idea.
[42:24] Speaker 1: Mm hmm. It's the scatter style a castin a wide net.
[42:28] Speaker 1: Nathaniel says, what is pan psychism if not even a
[42:32] Speaker 1: deistic God? I have struggled to understand some of these concepts.
[42:37] Speaker 1: I don't even know, Nathaniel. I don't care enough about
[42:39] Speaker 1: these quantum woot pan psych pan theis uber theist concepts
[42:46] Speaker 1: to really dig into them to care what they mean. Uh,
[42:48] Speaker 1: they're just silly on the face of it. You don't
[42:50] Speaker 1: need to know anything about it to defeat the worldview. Yeah,
[42:54] Speaker 1: sip sip snip snip. Nut says, is God really omnipotent
[42:58] Speaker 1: when he only had one son? Well, he sounds impotent
[43:02] Speaker 1: if he only had one That's what I would say.
[43:05] Speaker 1: I think this is where you go and space Lord,
[43:07] Speaker 1: thank you for the superjet, says I'd have a smaller
[43:09] Speaker 1: problem with the theist claims of objective morality if their God,
[43:13] Speaker 1: if they're God that gives us morality, wasn't such a
[43:16] Speaker 1: monster by zone standards. That's the other problem. Not only
[43:19] Speaker 1: do they have this claim of objective morals, but their
[43:22] Speaker 1: own God betrays them and breaks those objective morals.
[43:25] Speaker 2: You know what I mean? The irony of Jesus telling
[43:28] Speaker 2: his followers to do what the pharisees say, but know
[43:30] Speaker 2: what they do because they're hypocrites the irony.
[43:34] Speaker 1: I agree, Gretchen says, horizontal supremacy. Gretchen, listen. Both streams
[43:41] Speaker 1: are loved, though. Ken says, here's a helping hand for Rocky. Well,
[43:46] Speaker 1: thank you, Ken. Rocky appreciates that, and so do I.
[43:50] Speaker 1: And Dave says the truth was revealed to me on
[43:53] Speaker 1: a platinum tablets. Oh my god, I'm platinum tablets. That
[43:57] Speaker 1: horizontal is a superior method of revelation, but only if diagonally,
[44:01] Speaker 1: So you have you have to get your monitor and
[44:03] Speaker 1: do one of these on the horizontal stream. That's a
[44:07] Speaker 1: wild turn about. All right, I'm gonna have two more
[44:09] Speaker 1: super chats and then I'm gonna get Benjamin into the
[44:12] Speaker 1: chat and then Bree After that, Jake says, what do
[44:15] Speaker 1: you think of the argument that we can make subjective
[44:17] Speaker 1: morality objective as long as we agree on a common grounding.
[44:20] Speaker 1: I hear it used on the eighth Experience a lot. Well,
[44:23] Speaker 1: I so, to be sure, like when I first started streaming,
[44:26] Speaker 1: I used to kind of do that, But to be honest,
[44:28] Speaker 1: it's a waste of time. It doesn't really get you anywhere,
[44:31] Speaker 1: like it doesn't reinforce the idea that subjective morals are
[44:34] Speaker 1: are somehow the only reality that we have. It it's
[44:38] Speaker 1: an argument to make it feel like we have some
[44:41] Speaker 1: kind of objectivity, but it doesn't really do anything for
[44:44] Speaker 1: the argument. So I kind of stopped running it. But
[44:46] Speaker 1: when I when my first live streaming, I used to
[44:48] Speaker 1: say the same thing. Listen as like if society, if
[44:51] Speaker 1: we can agree that we have a goal like once,
[44:53] Speaker 1: like Dalton says, once we agree on the rules of chess,
[44:56] Speaker 1: we can go about determining what's the best way to
[44:58] Speaker 1: play chess. Then yes, yeah, we could have objective measures
[45:02] Speaker 1: of determining what is right and wrong once we subjectively
[45:05] Speaker 1: agree on the goals. That being said, while I agree
[45:10] Speaker 1: with it, I just don't know it's if it's fruitful
[45:12] Speaker 1: in the middle.
[45:13] Speaker 2: Of a diminsion.
[45:14] Speaker 4: You know.
[45:15] Speaker 2: The problem is that the Christians just don't seem to
[45:17] Speaker 2: have the same goals as us. They don't seem to
[45:19] Speaker 2: care about human flourishing.
[45:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the better argument is just showing how
[45:23] Speaker 1: ridiculous divine command theory is. Peter, thank you for the
[45:26] Speaker 1: ten dollar canuc bucks is. On my way home from Toronto,
[45:29] Speaker 1: went to a friend a Roka South Asian betrothal ceremony.
[45:34] Speaker 1: I hope that was fun. Drank too much two day hangover.
[45:37] Speaker 1: Holy shit, reminded me why I only drink once a
[45:40] Speaker 1: year now a train delay. Happy to be here. Well,
[45:43] Speaker 1: thank you Peter for being here. And I hate hangovers.
[45:47] Speaker 1: That's why I only have like one or two Krakens.
[45:49] Speaker 1: I hate them. Not a big fan. I hope the
[45:52] Speaker 1: best for you. I hope you get recovered, and I
[45:54] Speaker 1: hope that you feel better soon.
[45:56] Speaker 2: Never had fun. I've managed to luck out.
[46:01] Speaker 1: You're not missing anything. Welcome in, Benjamin. Fuck you, Oh
[46:09] Speaker 1: what's the best you got?
[46:11] Speaker 9: Sorry?
[46:11] Speaker 13: I just I heard of you saying before that people
[46:13] Speaker 13: prefer an angry guess I'm prying of people.
[46:16] Speaker 1: We do get that sometimes the problem.
[46:20] Speaker 13: Yeah, So I'm here to just have the conversation with
[46:23] Speaker 13: you boys. Try to sway your mind a little bit.
[46:26] Speaker 13: Maybe you can sway mine. I don't think you will
[46:28] Speaker 13: because I'm obviously probably the mornest person in the room here.
[46:31] Speaker 9: That's okay though.
[46:32] Speaker 13: Anyway, I don't take the glasses off.
[46:36] Speaker 9: Come on, come on, Dalton, leave him one buddy.
[46:39] Speaker 5: All right?
[46:40] Speaker 9: Anyway? I think objective around you? Are you guys subjectivists
[46:43] Speaker 9: or no.
[46:45] Speaker 1: Until somebody can prove that morals are objective, we have
[46:48] Speaker 1: no other choice. Can you prove that they're objective?
[46:51] Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean there's just a self refutation problem.
[46:53] Speaker 13: I think that if morality is a subjective, I mean,
[46:57] Speaker 13: the clean murder is wrong. It's just an opinion. I mean,
[46:59] Speaker 13: I'll be you're okay with that. I think that you'd
[47:02] Speaker 13: be okay with a person saying that their purpose is
[47:05] Speaker 13: to wake up one morning and on a wi Actually, I'm.
[47:08] Speaker 1: Sorry to be clear, you don't have an argument for
[47:11] Speaker 1: objective morals. You just don't like subjective morals.
[47:14] Speaker 13: That's not saying subjective morals basically puts you in a
[47:17] Speaker 13: position where you have to say.
[47:19] Speaker 1: See, that's the That's the funny thing is you keep
[47:21] Speaker 1: saying subjective morals. I'm asking you for an argument for
[47:24] Speaker 1: objective morals. Do you have one of those?
[47:28] Speaker 9: Yeah, the observation, Yeah, observation.
[47:32] Speaker 13: Certain acts i'd say, like unliving children or innocence, are
[47:36] Speaker 13: universally almost condemned.
[47:38] Speaker 2: So the problem is almost tell tell that to dah Israelites.
[47:42] Speaker 13: Hold up, wait, wait, wait, listen, even if it's happening, okay,
[47:47] Speaker 13: doesn't mean that for the most parts, universally condemned people
[47:49] Speaker 13: are still typically.
[47:50] Speaker 6: Against it, and they're doing things that people are typically against.
[47:53] Speaker 6: I mean, I.
[47:53] Speaker 1: Describe subjective morality. Thank you appreciate that. Yeah, some people
[47:57] Speaker 1: are some people aren't subjective morality.
[48:01] Speaker 9: Hold on, hold up.
[48:02] Speaker 2: You know that there were people that used to sacrifice
[48:04] Speaker 2: children for the good of the community. They thought it
[48:06] Speaker 2: was good and moral to do it.
[48:09] Speaker 13: Yeah, but typically the people that were doing these things,
[48:11] Speaker 13: they were going against their own moral.
[48:15] Speaker 6: So you're now no, they were obviously that's crazy.
[48:19] Speaker 1: I think we talked to you once, Benjamin, on this
[48:22] Speaker 1: exact topic. I recognize the tenor of this conversation already,
[48:26] Speaker 1: and the conversation that devolved. The conversation devolved in you
[48:30] Speaker 1: being able to read minds. Do you think that the
[48:33] Speaker 1: winning argument?
[48:34] Speaker 5: I don't.
[48:35] Speaker 13: Okay, wait, we've had a conversation with I don't think
[48:38] Speaker 13: I ever devolved to be being a mind reader.
[48:41] Speaker 1: Yeah. I think we talked about it.
[48:43] Speaker 9: I'm a different guy, A different guy.
[48:45] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[48:45] Speaker 1: I think he came in and talked about morals with
[48:47] Speaker 1: me before.
[48:47] Speaker 9: Listen, I'm not the mind reader guy.
[48:49] Speaker 13: Okay, Okay, that's I'm not I'm not that guy, But listen,
[48:53] Speaker 13: we haven't had a conversation before.
[48:54] Speaker 9: So if you if you prefer to speak to somebody else,
[48:56] Speaker 9: go ahead.
[48:57] Speaker 1: You're definitely got that guy. Don't worry about it. What's
[48:59] Speaker 1: your what's your argument for objective morals?
[49:01] Speaker 9: Okay?
[49:01] Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, so, so, like I was saying, I think
[49:03] Speaker 13: the problem would be I don't think that purely subjective
[49:07] Speaker 13: morality can explain.
[49:09] Speaker 1: Again, well, I don't know why you keep saying subjective.
[49:12] Speaker 1: I want the argument for objective morals.
[49:15] Speaker 9: Yeah, I was giving it.
[49:16] Speaker 1: You said that basically, you said subjective. An argument for
[49:19] Speaker 1: objective morals needs to start with objective morals.
[49:23] Speaker 13: Good, fine, let me give you like a. I'll give
[49:25] Speaker 13: you an actual argument if you want, just say, like
[49:27] Speaker 13: I would say, if morality were entirely like subjective.
[49:31] Speaker 2: You can't help himself.
[49:34] Speaker 9: Holda, let me finish.
[49:35] Speaker 1: You have an.
[49:37] Speaker 2: In org evidence for objective morals. You don't have to
[49:40] Speaker 2: say anything about subjective morals.
[49:41] Speaker 13: I'm giving the argument, all right, if morality were entirely subjective.
[49:51] Speaker 1: Ahead, I'm listening.
[49:54] Speaker 9: Listen, Okay, I've been drinking for a little bit. Okay,
[49:56] Speaker 9: give you a minute, right.
[49:57] Speaker 4: I believe it.
[49:57] Speaker 1: Don't worry you're you're safe here.
[50:00] Speaker 13: If morality were entirely subjective, I'd say anything could be justified,
[50:04] Speaker 13: like slavery, war crimes, I fit anything like that.
[50:07] Speaker 9: Okay, I'm saying.
[50:08] Speaker 13: The implication is a purely subjective morality undermines.
[50:12] Speaker 9: Human rights laws and justice things like that.
[50:16] Speaker 2: So I think I think you just described the Bible
[50:19] Speaker 2: to me.
[50:20] Speaker 1: Yeah. Not only that, you described the Bible, and and
[50:24] Speaker 1: you didn't actually give me an argument for objective morals.
[50:28] Speaker 9: Yeah, I realized after I said I didn't really give
[50:30] Speaker 9: an argument.
[50:31] Speaker 1: Yes, So to be sure, like saying I don't like
[50:34] Speaker 1: subjective morals will never be an argument for why objective
[50:38] Speaker 1: morals exist.
[50:40] Speaker 13: Well, do you believe under your worldview that a person
[50:42] Speaker 13: could say that their purpose is to wake up one
[50:44] Speaker 13: morning on a lively game of school.
[50:48] Speaker 1: They're welcome to And under my worldview, I would say, well,
[50:51] Speaker 1: I believe you're an idiot and day right, how subjective
[50:55] Speaker 1: morals work? Like I don't have to agree with everybody,
[50:57] Speaker 1: they don't have to agree with me. But again, your
[51:01] Speaker 1: your disdain of subjective morals will never be an argument
[51:05] Speaker 1: in favor of objective morals.
[51:10] Speaker 9: Yeah, I think that escape there is like the key problem.
[51:13] Speaker 9: We can go off.
[51:13] Speaker 1: That's not a problem i'm asking for. I'm asking for
[51:16] Speaker 1: an argument in favor of objective morals.
[51:20] Speaker 9: Justin I'm trying to.
[51:21] Speaker 1: For example, if I said, if I said, listen, I'm
[51:26] Speaker 1: holding up two objects. I'm holding up a lighter and
[51:28] Speaker 1: a tape measure, I said, can you give me an
[51:31] Speaker 1: argument that I'm holding a lighter if I'm holding this lighter,
[51:36] Speaker 1: and said, okay, I'm going to give you an argument
[51:38] Speaker 1: for me holding this lighter. And then I started with, well,
[51:41] Speaker 1: this tape measure in my hand no longer exists. I
[51:43] Speaker 1: don't like this tape measure. That's not a fucking argument
[51:46] Speaker 1: for the lighter. You'll never give an argument for objective
[51:49] Speaker 1: moralities by saying you don't like subjective morality. Give me
[51:52] Speaker 1: the argument for objective morality.
[51:55] Speaker 13: All right, fine, fine, let me, let me, let me
[51:56] Speaker 13: put this together. Just give me a second here, Okay,
[51:58] Speaker 13: because I've had four Captain Warren and.
[51:59] Speaker 1: Coke, take your time, take your time, hold your knee up,
[52:03] Speaker 1: do a good pose.
[52:04] Speaker 13: Yeah, because I got my old lady made like a
[52:06] Speaker 13: whole pot of shrimp tortillini, so I have that too.
[52:09] Speaker 9: I have to get to in just a minute.
[52:10] Speaker 13: Okay, alright, arguments rush, premise I can give you a
[52:16] Speaker 13: syllogism if you like.
[52:17] Speaker 1: I just say like, I'd love a good syllogism. Yeah,
[52:20] Speaker 1: P one, I'll put a notepad up and everything.
[52:23] Speaker 9: All right, sounds good. Let's do this.
[52:25] Speaker 2: Let's do this, all right.
[52:27] Speaker 13: I think Premise one is gonna be if you're ready,
[52:29] Speaker 13: I would say, if objective moral values exist, okay, then uh,
[52:37] Speaker 13: some actions are right or wrong independently of human opinion.
[52:43] Speaker 1: No of anyone's opinions correct.
[52:47] Speaker 9: If anyone's opinion correct?
[52:48] Speaker 13: Yeah, correct, okay, okay, so premise to oh sorry, let
[52:54] Speaker 13: me when you got that, you need to repeat that or.
[52:59] Speaker 1: Okay, so P one, we agree if objective morals exist,
[53:03] Speaker 1: then some actions are right or wrong independent of any opinion.
[53:09] Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, yeah, premise okay, PREMI okay, wait, hold on,
[53:18] Speaker 13: this actually is going to be very This is just
[53:19] Speaker 13: your this is just going to beg the question. But
[53:21] Speaker 13: premise two is going to be uh some actions, okay,
[53:25] Speaker 13: are truly are truly wrong, regardless of what anyone.
[53:28] Speaker 1: Thinks begging the question.
[53:30] Speaker 9: Yeah, let me just let me come back. Okay, I'm
[53:34] Speaker 9: gonna come back to this lot okay, all right, we'll
[53:36] Speaker 9: follow you right now. I will be back tomorrow.
[53:40] Speaker 1: Okay, so have a good time with your Captain Morgan.
[53:44] Speaker 1: Right down, write down some notes, and come back and
[53:47] Speaker 1: we'll go over the syllogism tomorrow or I'll be alive
[53:50] Speaker 1: one day.
[53:51] Speaker 5: Thanks.
[53:51] Speaker 9: I appreciate you that, but all right.
[53:52] Speaker 3: Cheers Ben.
[53:54] Speaker 2: I kind of love that guy, I know, I.
[53:55] Speaker 1: Know, I like him. Now I'm sad I had to go.
[54:03] Speaker 1: People are fun. Hey, it's a Monday. I'm glad we're
[54:06] Speaker 1: having a fun time on a Monday. Okay, let me
[54:11] Speaker 1: let me grab this a couple of super chats so
[54:13] Speaker 1: we don't get buried, and then we'll grab our next guest,
[54:16] Speaker 1: which is gonna be Bree Jennifer. Thank you for the
[54:19] Speaker 1: additional superest, says my Angelou. I know why the cage
[54:22] Speaker 1: bird sings. Oh I didn't. I didn't read that. I'm sorry.
[54:27] Speaker 1: Was our us poet laureate. Shame on both of you, shame.
[54:31] Speaker 1: I'm sorry I didn't.
[54:34] Speaker 2: I knew my Angelou from her civil civil rights work,
[54:38] Speaker 2: so I I have something going over here, at least
[54:42] Speaker 2: I did. I forgot that she was a poet.
[54:44] Speaker 1: I apologize, friends, I apologize. I need to get up
[54:48] Speaker 1: to speed. JM. Thank you for the two dollars super thanks,
[54:51] Speaker 1: and Nick, thank you so much for the five dollars.
[54:53] Speaker 1: Super says loving the Justin Dalton show as we Jamaican
[54:57] Speaker 1: say big ups. Hey, thank you Nick. It's good to
[55:00] Speaker 1: see you tonight and I hope you're doing well over
[55:02] Speaker 1: there in Jamaica and carnage with us. Thank you so
[55:05] Speaker 1: much for the Supertest says smash Mary or un alive
[55:09] Speaker 1: one night of the same type of call edition. Uh,
[55:13] Speaker 1: your options are Philbro, Quantum WU, merchant or belligerent idiot.
[55:18] Speaker 1: Oh boy, okay, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm going
[55:22] Speaker 1: to literally execute the belligerent idiot that that guy's gonna
[55:27] Speaker 1: get murdered on screen. I'm definitely probably going to let's see, hmmm, No,
[55:36] Speaker 1: I take that back. I'm gonna murder the Philbro, I'm
[55:39] Speaker 1: gonna marry the Quantum Wu, and I'm gonna smash the
[55:42] Speaker 1: bligerent idiot. That's that's That's how I'm taking that. I
[55:45] Speaker 1: don't know if there's a better way.
[55:46] Speaker 2: But quantum Quantum WU people seem to be obsessed with
[55:51] Speaker 2: frequency and vibrations, so that sounds really good for bad
[55:54] Speaker 2: just saying.
[55:55] Speaker 1: That's that's that is the case. Yeah, thank you so much.
[55:58] Speaker 1: Carnage in Saint Brush, thank you for the six sixty
[56:01] Speaker 1: six says the Rock of Ages, pieces be upon him.
[56:04] Speaker 1: I love that we need to adopt that pieces be
[56:07] Speaker 1: upon him. Struck the statue in Daniel's dream horizontally. Oh no,
[56:13] Speaker 1: and Verdiclite Church does not lay upon the stone of truth. Well,
[56:19] Speaker 1: that is true. The stone that no human handheads cut, obviously,
[56:25] Speaker 1: is that of Doug. And Peter says, also, long live
[56:28] Speaker 1: vertical Hey, thank you, Peter. Viva Livertical and Dexter's Lab says,
[56:34] Speaker 1: get Doug and Sharon hot and wet in a sm
[56:38] Speaker 1: room sauna. Maybe I wonder if they'll sweat. I've got
[56:43] Speaker 1: questions now, mister b thank you for the fighterar Supertest
[56:46] Speaker 1: says another song for the Jam Atheists, Ain't got no
[56:48] Speaker 1: songs by Steve Martin. That's on the list. I added
[56:51] Speaker 1: that to the list. Thank you for letting us know, though.
[56:54] Speaker 1: And space Lord says you haven't made it as a
[56:57] Speaker 1: religion until you have sex and heresies like the vertical
[57:00] Speaker 1: stream for example.
[57:03] Speaker 2: Yeah, I watch, I watch on the vertical stream, so
[57:06] Speaker 2: follow my example.
[57:08] Speaker 1: I don't know to tell you all, listen until the
[57:10] Speaker 1: horizontal stream gets anywhere close to the amount of memberships
[57:14] Speaker 1: as the vertical stream, Vertical wins and Carlos is trying though.
[57:18] Speaker 1: Carlos out fifty dz debate memberships. That's crazy huge. Thank
[57:25] Speaker 1: you so so so much, Carlos. And listen, if you
[57:28] Speaker 1: got gifted to membership tonight, you got access to the
[57:30] Speaker 1: deconstruction cheat sheet. Thank you so much, Carlos. It's good
[57:32] Speaker 1: to hear from you, and I hope friend that you're
[57:35] Speaker 1: doing well tonight. And last super chat before we get
[57:38] Speaker 1: bringing here from our friends Zen again, thank you so
[57:40] Speaker 1: much so that I want to maximize my contributions to
[57:43] Speaker 1: the channel. Would the channel retain more of my donation?
[57:46] Speaker 1: If I use venmo or PayPal? Will the channel keep
[57:49] Speaker 1: more of the donation? Is my it is my sacred
[57:53] Speaker 1: duty to support the channel. Well, thank you so much then,
[57:55] Speaker 1: and yes, if you do PayPal or Venmo or cash app,
[57:58] Speaker 1: we get one hundred percent on the channel. And if
[58:01] Speaker 1: you do a super chat, YouTube gets between thirty and
[58:05] Speaker 1: thirty five percent. That's the YouTube cut. So unfortunately, yeah,
[58:09] Speaker 1: the YouTube has to make money somehow, and that's one
[58:11] Speaker 1: of the ways that they make money. If you want
[58:13] Speaker 1: to support directly, you can go to the links in
[58:15] Speaker 1: my bio and directly support. And also I do have
[58:18] Speaker 1: a Patreon in my link tree. If you want to
[58:20] Speaker 1: support on Patreon monthly, and Patreon, believe it or not,
[58:24] Speaker 1: only takes like five to seven percent. It's very small.
[58:27] Speaker 1: So if you want to do a monthly subscription and
[58:30] Speaker 1: you don't want a YouTube to take a bunch of it,
[58:33] Speaker 1: you can do Patreon and almost all of it gets
[58:35] Speaker 1: to me.
[58:36] Speaker 2: Do I need a Patreon?
[58:38] Speaker 1: I think you do. Yeah, you got to get a
[58:41] Speaker 1: Patreon buddy. I can help you set it up if
[58:43] Speaker 1: you need some assistance, But yeah, you gotta get one. Brie,
[58:47] Speaker 1: welcome in. Are you at least eighteen? And do you
[58:49] Speaker 1: believe in God?
[58:51] Speaker 14: I am thirty five and I don't believe in God?
[58:54] Speaker 6: But I have two questions for you.
[58:57] Speaker 1: You could boot me though, go ahead, Okay.
[59:00] Speaker 14: So you said something about the hand on the thigh
[59:05] Speaker 14: or like thigh referred to genitals, and I watch Jewelry's
[59:09] Speaker 14: Bible reading the Bible, and he talked about in like
[59:13] Speaker 14: I think it was Exodus. How like Abraham Isaac and
[59:16] Speaker 14: on them. They would like put their hands on their thighs,
[59:21] Speaker 14: they would.
[59:21] Speaker 5: Put the.
[59:23] Speaker 1: So Elias are famously pledged to get a wife for Isaac.
[59:28] Speaker 1: That wasn't of the Cannonites by putting his hand under
[59:31] Speaker 1: the thigh of Abraham and most scholars I would not
[59:35] Speaker 1: say I'm a scholar, but I agree with the scholars
[59:38] Speaker 1: that this is a reference to the genitals, which is
[59:40] Speaker 1: where the seed is located. The seed of Abraham is
[59:44] Speaker 1: in the balls and the promise. The reason why you
[59:48] Speaker 1: put your hand under the thighs because it was a
[59:50] Speaker 1: promise to protect his seed. It was a symbolic gesture.
[59:54] Speaker 2: I love the idea of just Abraham and and a
[59:58] Speaker 2: friend of his like making sweach there they just start
[1:00:00] Speaker 2: grabbing themselves. It's so funny.
[1:00:02] Speaker 1: It's so funny, like a handsheet. This is symbolic action
[1:00:11] Speaker 1: based on what he was promising to protect.
[1:00:14] Speaker 2: All part of the very weird same club.
[1:00:16] Speaker 1: To be sure, this wasn't normal, like people didn't just
[1:00:19] Speaker 1: do this on the regular. This was something specific to
[1:00:21] Speaker 1: Abraham and Eliet's arm.
[1:00:23] Speaker 14: Oh okay, anyways, Also, what does r I saw it twice?
[1:00:28] Speaker 14: What does our HD stand for?
[1:00:31] Speaker 12: Rock?
[1:00:31] Speaker 3: Hard rock?
[1:00:32] Speaker 2: Card for Doug.
[1:00:34] Speaker 1: Okay, fair question.
[1:00:37] Speaker 2: I hear Doug all the time.
[1:00:38] Speaker 14: I still don't know what people are talking about, but.
[1:00:41] Speaker 1: Doug is, Doug is here. He is the rock of
[1:00:47] Speaker 1: ages and this is his consort, Sharon Stone.
[1:00:54] Speaker 10: Thank you for your time.
[1:00:55] Speaker 14: Y'all have a good one.
[1:00:56] Speaker 1: Thanks Brigod.
[1:00:57] Speaker 2: Dear VI listen. I had to learn a lot out
[1:01:00] Speaker 2: of the lingo and stuff when I first started watching, too.
[1:01:05] Speaker 1: There certainly is a lot to pick up on. We've
[1:01:08] Speaker 1: got an active crowd tonight on TikTok, not as many
[1:01:12] Speaker 1: on not as many guests wanting to get on on
[1:01:15] Speaker 1: the YouTube streams. If you're watching on YouTube, there is
[1:01:17] Speaker 1: a leak on the screen for you to get in
[1:01:20] Speaker 1: tiny dot CC four socks dzy guests, you can join
[1:01:22] Speaker 1: the conversation as well. How are you doing?
[1:01:25] Speaker 10: Sim Hi?
[1:01:27] Speaker 11: Sorry?
[1:01:28] Speaker 1: How are you good?
[1:01:29] Speaker 11: Are you? Oh?
[1:01:30] Speaker 6: Good? I'm really sorry.
[1:01:34] Speaker 15: I was originally in control earlier, but I saw the
[1:01:36] Speaker 15: other guy who was acting silly. I think he was drunk.
[1:01:41] Speaker 15: I'm probably my main plan. I was just gonna talk
[1:01:44] Speaker 15: about Deuteronomy six seven.
[1:01:46] Speaker 1: But are you a personal non Okay? All right, Well,
[1:01:50] Speaker 1: we're looking for people that will debate us, that don't
[1:01:52] Speaker 1: agree with us. Okay, all right, all right, at least
[1:01:56] Speaker 1: he was honest. Yeah, don't uh, don't don't control control,
[1:02:01] Speaker 1: all right, let's grab Okay, it's not that again, not
[1:02:07] Speaker 1: that again. Okay, all right, we'll get Crisis King up
[1:02:14] Speaker 1: in here.
[1:02:19] Speaker 2: Five. I bet you I know his religion is justin.
[1:02:22] Speaker 1: You know, if I had to guess, I'm going out
[1:02:25] Speaker 1: on a limb. I'm saying that Crisis King is a Christian?
[1:02:29] Speaker 1: Is that an accurate guess?
[1:02:33] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[1:02:34] Speaker 1: And are you at least eighteen?
[1:02:36] Speaker 5: Yes?
[1:02:36] Speaker 1: I ad awesome? And what would be your most compelling
[1:02:40] Speaker 1: evidence argument for the Christian God being real?
[1:02:44] Speaker 16: I believe that it is self defeating to deny the
[1:02:47] Speaker 16: existence of free will.
[1:02:50] Speaker 1: I haven't denied the existence. Well, what do you think
[1:02:53] Speaker 1: free will is?
[1:02:54] Speaker 11: First?
[1:02:56] Speaker 16: I think it's the genuine ability to make choices.
[1:03:00] Speaker 2: Love, that's all you think it is? Then, sure, I
[1:03:02] Speaker 2: believe in it, but I don't think that's what free
[1:03:03] Speaker 2: will is.
[1:03:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, free will typically is the ability to make choices
[1:03:07] Speaker 1: without any sort of outside interference like punishments if you
[1:03:11] Speaker 1: make a different choice, or coercion or anything like that,
[1:03:13] Speaker 1: which you certainly don't have. If your God is real,
[1:03:17] Speaker 1: you don't have free will.
[1:03:19] Speaker 16: Okay, I understand that you could say people could be
[1:03:22] Speaker 16: influenced by things, but I think what we're really like
[1:03:26] Speaker 16: when we're talking about free will, we just were not
[1:03:30] Speaker 16: mechanistically unfolding the secrets of events. We have determining ability
[1:03:36] Speaker 16: in the seat of our soul.
[1:03:39] Speaker 1: You can say that. But thing to do with Jesus Christ,
[1:03:41] Speaker 1: So what's the argument for Jesus being real being God?
[1:03:46] Speaker 9: Will?
[1:03:46] Speaker 1: That nonsense?
[1:03:48] Speaker 5: Okay?
[1:03:48] Speaker 17: Well, do you think will is matter or energy?
[1:03:53] Speaker 1: I think will comes from your brain. But again, to
[1:03:55] Speaker 1: be sure, none of this isn't actually an argument for Christianity.
[1:04:01] Speaker 16: Well I'm trying to get there, but I'm trying.
[1:04:03] Speaker 2: To you know, there are Christians that don't believe it.
[1:04:06] Speaker 1: Yeah. By the way, there's a whole a whole sect
[1:04:08] Speaker 1: of Christians that don't believe in free will. So this
[1:04:11] Speaker 1: is not the best argument you could have brought.
[1:04:16] Speaker 5: Uh.
[1:04:16] Speaker 17: Okay, I mean, I guess people can make other arguments, but.
[1:04:20] Speaker 5: The free will thing.
[1:04:21] Speaker 16: Is, uh, it's it's not matter energy. I don't think.
[1:04:26] Speaker 16: I don't think matter energy typically do choice making, So
[1:04:30] Speaker 16: I wouldn't say, like if you're.
[1:04:34] Speaker 17: Uh, just empirically they don't do it.
[1:04:37] Speaker 1: No begging the question. You just you said the support
[1:04:41] Speaker 1: for your claim is that they don't. So what's the
[1:04:44] Speaker 1: actual support for it? Rather than begging the question, are.
[1:04:49] Speaker 16: You mean, like, do I know if they're not going
[1:04:51] Speaker 16: to like tomorrow like humes, like it's skepticism. We don't
[1:04:55] Speaker 16: know if like the matter is going to start making
[1:04:57] Speaker 16: choices tomorrow.
[1:04:59] Speaker 1: No, you said that, like matter doesn't make choices, but like,
[1:05:03] Speaker 1: as far as we're aware, we're just made of matters.
[1:05:06] Speaker 1: There's no spirit in here, right, so you would have
[1:05:09] Speaker 1: to demonstrate that somehow something other than matter was residing
[1:05:13] Speaker 1: inside of us. And again, none of this gets you
[1:05:15] Speaker 1: to Christianity. I don't know why you keep bringing it up.
[1:05:20] Speaker 17: Uh, I'm well, I'm okay.
[1:05:23] Speaker 16: Well, if there's a if there's free will, if that
[1:05:25] Speaker 16: is true, like I don't think that's just compatible.
[1:05:31] Speaker 1: With free will is unrelated to your god. No one
[1:05:36] Speaker 1: cares about the free will argument. I'm not debating Calvinism
[1:05:38] Speaker 1: right now.
[1:05:43] Speaker 5: Okay, So where do you think?
[1:05:45] Speaker 17: Do you you agree that free will exists?
[1:05:47] Speaker 1: He can't help it is all he came up with.
[1:05:49] Speaker 1: He has nothing else. He wrote it down on a
[1:05:52] Speaker 1: napkin at a restaurant later earlier today, He's like, I'm
[1:05:55] Speaker 1: gonna go cook somebody with this, and that's all he brought.
[1:05:57] Speaker 1: That's all he thought to bring.
[1:05:59] Speaker 2: My dude, even if I believe in the existence of
[1:06:01] Speaker 2: the soul and I believe in the existence of God,
[1:06:03] Speaker 2: and even if I believe that Jesus wasn't a sign,
[1:06:05] Speaker 2: I still wouldn't believe in free will. So this is
[1:06:07] Speaker 2: utterly irrelevant.
[1:06:11] Speaker 17: I don't think that it is.
[1:06:12] Speaker 16: I'm just asking you, do you believe would you agree
[1:06:14] Speaker 16: that free will doesn't this?
[1:06:16] Speaker 2: No, No, I'm a I'm a hard determinist.
[1:06:20] Speaker 5: Okay.
[1:06:21] Speaker 17: See that's what doesn't make sense to me.
[1:06:22] Speaker 1: He can't stop it. He can't stop it. He wants
[1:06:24] Speaker 1: to have an argument about determinism. He doesn't. He doesn't
[1:06:28] Speaker 1: want to talk about his God. So Christ, here, here's
[1:06:31] Speaker 1: what we're going to do. We're gonna talk about your
[1:06:34] Speaker 1: actual God. No one cares about whether or not you're
[1:06:37] Speaker 1: a determinist or not. I don't care if you're a determinist.
[1:06:40] Speaker 1: I don't care if I'm a determinist. I don't even
[1:06:42] Speaker 1: know if I'm a determinist. It's irrelevant. It has nothing
[1:06:44] Speaker 1: to do with whether or not your God is real?
[1:06:46] Speaker 1: Do you want to actually get on track or do
[1:06:47] Speaker 1: you want to get skipped?
[1:06:51] Speaker 17: H Are you afraid to answer the questions?
[1:06:53] Speaker 1: It's unrelated. I don't have to answer questions that are
[1:06:56] Speaker 1: entirely unrelated to the top obviously not. Okay, all right,
[1:07:00] Speaker 1: so we'll so we'll start. Then give me the conclusion
[1:07:04] Speaker 1: to your argument, and then we'll fill in the premises.
[1:07:06] Speaker 1: What's your conclusion.
[1:07:09] Speaker 16: Uh, there's a source of will that has will in itself.
[1:07:15] Speaker 1: That's the conclusion. How does that relate to the Christian God?
[1:07:20] Speaker 16: Well, that's okay, So you're talking about my conclusion for God.
[1:07:23] Speaker 9: I'm talking about my conclusion.
[1:07:24] Speaker 1: We're talking about your conclusion for God. We're not talking
[1:07:27] Speaker 1: about free will. If you bothered the read the the
[1:07:29] Speaker 1: thing above my head, it says your God is imaginary.
[1:07:32] Speaker 1: Doesn't say your free will is imaginary. No one cares
[1:07:34] Speaker 1: about free will versus determinism. You walked into the wrong
[1:07:38] Speaker 1: room if you wanted to have a boring philosophical discussion
[1:07:41] Speaker 1: about determinism.
[1:07:43] Speaker 3: Okay.
[1:07:43] Speaker 16: Well, if you want to go from like, how I
[1:07:45] Speaker 16: get to free will there being a source for that,
[1:07:48] Speaker 16: I want.
[1:07:49] Speaker 1: You to get to your God.
[1:07:50] Speaker 17: I don't care.
[1:07:52] Speaker 1: No one cares about free will.
[1:07:55] Speaker 16: That only an absolutely right.
[1:07:57] Speaker 17: So here's here's would you be able to give free will?
[1:08:02] Speaker 1: Nod? Your God explicitly says you don't have free will.
[1:08:06] Speaker 1: Thank you for the Ian rate. I appreciate that. Paul
[1:08:08] Speaker 1: says in Romans nine that you don't have free will.
[1:08:10] Speaker 1: It's only by the will of God, the mercy of God.
[1:08:15] Speaker 9: Yeah, that does.
[1:08:17] Speaker 1: Do you actually read your book?
[1:08:20] Speaker 17: Are you?
[1:08:21] Speaker 1: Are you Orthodox? By the way, are you Orthodox?
[1:08:25] Speaker 17: Where does that deny that we have the ability to make.
[1:08:28] Speaker 1: Are you orthodox? I'm not okay. I was trying to
[1:08:33] Speaker 1: figure out why you're bringing bad philosophical arguments, usually their Orthodox.
[1:08:36] Speaker 1: So the reality is whether or not you have free
[1:08:38] Speaker 1: will has nothing to do with whether or not God exists.
[1:08:41] Speaker 1: I could just say that, uh, that free will does exist,
[1:08:44] Speaker 1: and it still has nothing to do with your God.
[1:08:48] Speaker 17: Are you saying so you're are you? Are you agreeing
[1:08:50] Speaker 17: that free will does exist?
[1:08:51] Speaker 4: There?
[1:08:51] Speaker 1: No, I'm not saying that it is exist. I'm saying
[1:08:53] Speaker 1: even if I did, it has nothing to do with
[1:08:55] Speaker 1: whether it your God exists.
[1:08:58] Speaker 16: That I don't see how I don't really believe with you.
[1:09:02] Speaker 17: I would definitely okay, then give me.
[1:09:04] Speaker 1: The argument, like, give me the argument, will give me
[1:09:08] Speaker 1: the argument from free will exists. Actually your definition freedom
[1:09:12] Speaker 1: of choice, not freedom of will, because you don't have
[1:09:14] Speaker 1: freedom of will in Christianity because if you do anything
[1:09:17] Speaker 1: that God doesn't want, he burn you forever in hell.
[1:09:20] Speaker 1: So you don't have freedom of choice or freedom of
[1:09:22] Speaker 1: will completely. What you have is a coercion to choose
[1:09:27] Speaker 1: what God wants.
[1:09:27] Speaker 4: You to choose.
[1:09:29] Speaker 1: So give me, give me the argument from coercion to
[1:09:32] Speaker 1: Christianity is true.
[1:09:35] Speaker 16: Okay, So first of all, with coercion, like I could
[1:09:38] Speaker 16: we could go coerc some like some guy who were
[1:09:41] Speaker 16: police and we're going to coerce them into getting into
[1:09:44] Speaker 16: the back of the police vehicle.
[1:09:45] Speaker 17: Because you're committing a crime.
[1:09:47] Speaker 5: He still has the choice to run away.
[1:09:50] Speaker 2: A free choice though, doesn't defeat.
[1:09:53] Speaker 16: Like or like all these like these things of like uh, coercion,
[1:09:59] Speaker 16: influence and things that do impact you and do restrain
[1:10:02] Speaker 16: me in some way, those don't defeat like the ultimate
[1:10:06] Speaker 16: because my argument for why free will exists, what do
[1:10:09] Speaker 16: you free will means?
[1:10:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't deny it's that an argument. What does
[1:10:13] Speaker 1: the word free will mean? What's the phrase mean?
[1:10:17] Speaker 7: Is the ability to make genuine choices.
[1:10:20] Speaker 16: That's what I'm determinism has that, it's they're not a
[1:10:26] Speaker 16: genuine choice, You're just being determined to do.
[1:10:28] Speaker 2: So they are genuine choices. What do you think the
[1:10:31] Speaker 2: free in free will means?
[1:10:34] Speaker 16: It means your consciousness really has that like responsible, Like
[1:10:39] Speaker 16: like if you chose to, let's say, hit someone with
[1:10:43] Speaker 16: your car and make them un alive, you would be actually,
[1:10:49] Speaker 16: in my universe, really responsible for it. It wouldn't be
[1:10:53] Speaker 16: just a sequence of events which you are unfortunately part of.
[1:10:57] Speaker 1: The answer the question, The question is what does the
[1:11:00] Speaker 1: word free mean in the phrase free will? That's what
[1:11:03] Speaker 1: he asked.
[1:11:06] Speaker 16: I guess in the way that I'm using it, it's
[1:11:08] Speaker 16: free from a totalized uh degree of influence, which removes
[1:11:16] Speaker 16: any genuine choice.
[1:11:18] Speaker 1: That's not what that means.
[1:11:20] Speaker 2: Good Dalton, here's my definition for free will. Free will
[1:11:24] Speaker 2: is the ability to make a choice. Is the ability
[1:11:26] Speaker 2: to make a choice free or independent of indy underlying cause.
[1:11:31] Speaker 17: What, No, it's not, that's not what we believe.
[1:11:34] Speaker 16: That is that you can say that, but you're just
[1:11:37] Speaker 16: equivocating if you're trying to make that MINDU.
[1:11:40] Speaker 1: No, I'm thinking that's the definition like I'm not even
[1:11:43] Speaker 1: into your, like your garbage philosophy, and even I know
[1:11:46] Speaker 1: that if you just go to like a philosophy dictionary,
[1:11:48] Speaker 1: look up free will, especially libertarian free will. As it's used,
[1:11:51] Speaker 1: it means the ability to make a choice without any
[1:11:54] Speaker 1: external influences, force, coercion, or persuasion.
[1:11:59] Speaker 5: No, it doesn't, Yeah it does. No.
[1:12:01] Speaker 16: Yeah, No, people know that you can be hungry and
[1:12:04] Speaker 16: eat because you're hungry, and it's not You still have influence.
[1:12:08] Speaker 5: You have a choice.
[1:12:09] Speaker 1: You don't have a free wing choice.
[1:12:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, and that choice of whether you will choose to
[1:12:13] Speaker 2: eat or not will be being determined by some underlying cause.
[1:12:19] Speaker 1: Yeah. So listen, this is a really dumb conversation, like,
[1:12:22] Speaker 1: nobody's here to have a free will verse determinism discussion.
[1:12:27] Speaker 1: Do you have anything other than this that actually is
[1:12:30] Speaker 1: related to your God? Because this is not going to
[1:12:32] Speaker 1: get you anywhere clothes?
[1:12:34] Speaker 17: Well, my the way that it relates for me is that.
[1:12:38] Speaker 1: Yes or no question. Do you have any other argument
[1:12:40] Speaker 1: other than this? Because this is not going to get
[1:12:42] Speaker 1: you anywhere?
[1:12:45] Speaker 16: Uh, sure, I can go, I can take it in
[1:12:47] Speaker 16: another direction. If you're not having fun with this.
[1:12:49] Speaker 1: One, nobody's having fun. Nobody cares. We're here talking about God,
[1:12:54] Speaker 1: not about free will verse determinism.
[1:12:57] Speaker 17: Man, I'm trying to take it there.
[1:12:59] Speaker 3: I don't.
[1:12:59] Speaker 16: I think it's I think it's a little unfair to
[1:13:01] Speaker 16: say that not related and you really think so.
[1:13:04] Speaker 1: Well, the conclusion of your argument didn't even end in God,
[1:13:07] Speaker 1: so it's a useless argument. Starts with the argument or
[1:13:10] Speaker 1: the conclusion is the Christian God.
[1:13:15] Speaker 16: I was making an argument, like to get our histemology right.
[1:13:21] Speaker 1: I'll just I'll just make notes for you. No one
[1:13:23] Speaker 1: cares about your epistemology. No one cares that you took
[1:13:26] Speaker 1: philosophy one on one conclusion the Christian Christians, the Christian
[1:13:35] Speaker 1: God is real. Fill in the premises.
[1:13:39] Speaker 17: Premise number one, free will exists.
[1:13:47] Speaker 1: This always has They never they never can think for themselves.
[1:13:51] Speaker 1: They have they can never think on their toes. They
[1:13:54] Speaker 1: come and they stick to it. That's begging the question.
[1:14:01] Speaker 2: Sadly, Justin I think he was just determined to make
[1:14:03] Speaker 2: these horrible arguments.
[1:14:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, premise too is begging the question. How is that
[1:14:10] Speaker 1: you can't use God as a premise for proving God?
[1:14:15] Speaker 1: Is this your first semester in philosophy class.
[1:14:17] Speaker 5: Well, it's a trench and dental argument. Right.
[1:14:19] Speaker 1: I know tag is the weakest, dumbest argument alive. But
[1:14:22] Speaker 1: even in the tag argument, you don't in fact beg
[1:14:26] Speaker 1: the question. You can run tag without begging the question.
[1:14:30] Speaker 17: I think it's usual.
[1:14:31] Speaker 16: I think it's often formulated God's necessary precondition for like logic,
[1:14:35] Speaker 16: logic exists or or not exists.
[1:14:37] Speaker 1: Dakota, thank you so much for the fifteen dollars over cash.
[1:14:40] Speaker 1: As well, you didn't actually like, you didn't actually do
[1:14:45] Speaker 1: your syllogism properly for a good tag argument. What you
[1:14:48] Speaker 1: want to do is first establish some connection between P.
[1:14:54] Speaker 1: One and P two, where the conclusion could only be
[1:14:57] Speaker 1: that a God, some kind of a God is necessary.
[1:15:01] Speaker 1: Then from that conclusion you would do another syllogism saying, well,
[1:15:05] Speaker 1: now that we've established a God is necessary, then we
[1:15:09] Speaker 1: need to fill in the blanks for why my specific
[1:15:11] Speaker 1: God is the necessary God.
[1:15:14] Speaker 16: I see, So you're I see I did You're You're right?
[1:15:17] Speaker 16: Is that where you're saying, I'm begging the question?
[1:15:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're trying to say that the Christian God
[1:15:22] Speaker 1: is real and that your conclusion, your second premise can't
[1:15:25] Speaker 1: be God is the necessary precondition full well knowing that
[1:15:28] Speaker 1: your God is the Christian God.
[1:15:31] Speaker 16: Okay, if we are all right, I can put more
[1:15:32] Speaker 16: in there for that, then I can do that yet okay.
[1:15:38] Speaker 5: Uh premise three?
[1:15:41] Speaker 16: Uh God uh in order to be uh, in order
[1:15:46] Speaker 16: for us to have like epistemic rationality, God must be revelatory.
[1:15:51] Speaker 1: What do you think that even means?
[1:15:54] Speaker 5: Uh?
[1:15:55] Speaker 17: It means that God has to be able.
[1:15:57] Speaker 1: To epistle rationality, do you think?
[1:16:01] Speaker 5: So?
[1:16:02] Speaker 1: Before we get in further, I got to get the
[1:16:03] Speaker 1: philbro timer going. This is gonna get stupid. All right,
[1:16:10] Speaker 1: phil Road timers up. We've got uh, let me get
[1:16:16] Speaker 1: ten minutes loaded.
[1:16:22] Speaker 2: Take note that any claim you make, Justine's probably gonna
[1:16:26] Speaker 2: hold your feet to the fire to justify that claim.
[1:16:29] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[1:16:30] Speaker 1: So the phil brod timer means for every argument you run,
[1:16:33] Speaker 1: you only get ten minutes. I shouldn't even give you
[1:16:35] Speaker 1: ten from now because you've already wasted five. But the
[1:16:38] Speaker 1: reality is, every time you say something silly like epistemic
[1:16:42] Speaker 1: rationality that I know is a nonsense phrase that people
[1:16:46] Speaker 1: here aren't gonna know what it means, I'm gonna stop
[1:16:48] Speaker 1: you make you define it, and you're gonna eat time
[1:16:50] Speaker 1: off your clock. So go ahead and do Premise three
[1:16:53] Speaker 1: again and try to use words that regular people know.
[1:17:00] Speaker 16: So for forming truth, beliefs and truth properly. Mm hmm,
[1:17:17] Speaker 16: we need like a revelatory God.
[1:17:25] Speaker 1: Have you thought that? To be clear, the conclusion of
[1:17:31] Speaker 1: your first argument is that God is real. Your second
[1:17:35] Speaker 1: argument is about the Christian God. So premise two and
[1:17:39] Speaker 1: three are begging the question.
[1:17:45] Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, well.
[1:17:52] Speaker 17: All right, well do you not do you not agree
[1:17:54] Speaker 17: with me that?
[1:17:55] Speaker 16: Like, uh, like if God, if God's not revealing, if
[1:18:01] Speaker 16: he's not a revealing God, he's not revealing stuff some way,
[1:18:06] Speaker 16: then it like we're kind of in an epistomic like
[1:18:09] Speaker 16: black hole something that is utterly ridiculous.
[1:18:13] Speaker 1: I knew who my father was when I was like
[1:18:15] Speaker 1: like six months old. I'm sure I had enough recognition
[1:18:18] Speaker 1: to know who my father was, and God never revealed
[1:18:20] Speaker 1: it to me.
[1:18:23] Speaker 2: I never understand why Christians make the claim that God
[1:18:25] Speaker 2: is the necessary precondition for a logic. It just it
[1:18:29] Speaker 2: just seems like a claim that they haven't get substantiated.
[1:18:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, or for knowledge. Listen before you're even born, like
[1:18:36] Speaker 1: you know, you're getting uncomfortable. You like it just you
[1:18:39] Speaker 1: your brain just knows things because it's aware of the
[1:18:42] Speaker 1: outside world.
[1:18:44] Speaker 2: All that's required is that the world exists and that
[1:18:47] Speaker 2: you exist with a brain to be able to comprehend
[1:18:50] Speaker 2: the world. And that's all it's required to have knowledge.
[1:18:57] Speaker 17: I'm definitely quite convinced.
[1:18:59] Speaker 16: Though that, Like, well, when you say, like we have knowledge,
[1:19:03] Speaker 16: like it seems like like how do how is it absolute?
[1:19:07] Speaker 5: Though?
[1:19:08] Speaker 16: Like I like if there's not something to ground it
[1:19:11] Speaker 16: and like make it like might even be grounded, because
[1:19:17] Speaker 16: if it can change, if our beliefs are like in
[1:19:19] Speaker 16: like a world of change, then who's to say that
[1:19:24] Speaker 16: my belief.
[1:19:24] Speaker 17: Is what it is?
[1:19:26] Speaker 1: Who's to say your belief is what it is? Even
[1:19:27] Speaker 1: if you're getting revelation from God, you could be wrong
[1:19:29] Speaker 1: about the revelation you're getting. So it's a nonsense argument.
[1:19:32] Speaker 1: The reality is knowledge claims are just what you believe
[1:19:37] Speaker 1: based on good reason. Like if I have good reason
[1:19:41] Speaker 1: to believe that Shasta root beer is fucking delicious, that's
[1:19:46] Speaker 1: knowledge that I have. Now you might not even agree
[1:19:48] Speaker 1: with me. You might think that Shasta root beer is terrible,
[1:19:50] Speaker 1: but to my knowledge, it's delicious.
[1:19:57] Speaker 16: Well, uh, I'm not saying saying that you necessarily can't
[1:20:01] Speaker 16: like have the knowledge, but like sort of justification, like
[1:20:07] Speaker 16: as to why we know that?
[1:20:08] Speaker 17: Like, how do you know it's not an illusion?
[1:20:10] Speaker 5: That it tastes real?
[1:20:10] Speaker 1: Good illusion? So, because what you're so what you want
[1:20:17] Speaker 1: to do? Like, so what what you're attempting to do
[1:20:19] Speaker 1: right now is right? You want to push the atheist
[1:20:22] Speaker 1: into hard solbsism. Right, you're saying you can't know anything.
[1:20:26] Speaker 1: You can't even know that. You're not a brain in
[1:20:27] Speaker 1: a vat. Well neither can you. Like every argument you're
[1:20:30] Speaker 1: about to use to push me into solbism, I can
[1:20:33] Speaker 1: use against you. So how much time do you want
[1:20:35] Speaker 1: to waste on solbism?
[1:20:38] Speaker 16: Well I would disagree with that because I mean you're.
[1:20:42] Speaker 1: Saying you can't stop you never listen to any warning,
[1:20:46] Speaker 1: the warning.
[1:20:47] Speaker 2: If I get a revelation from your God, how do
[1:20:49] Speaker 2: I know I'm not just like going crazy and seeing
[1:20:52] Speaker 2: things that aren't real?
[1:20:54] Speaker 3: That's right?
[1:20:55] Speaker 1: How do you know when you've received that revelation? Behind
[1:20:57] Speaker 1: God never lies? We're not asking about that? And how
[1:21:02] Speaker 1: do you know that the revelation you're receiving is from
[1:21:05] Speaker 1: God and that you've interpreted it correctly?
[1:21:10] Speaker 16: Because that's the worldview. It entails that.
[1:21:16] Speaker 1: No, we're not we're not asking if God is lying
[1:21:18] Speaker 1: we're asking how do you know that you're hearing from God?
[1:21:25] Speaker 16: Because it's stipulating.
[1:21:29] Speaker 1: I'm pushing you into the presupposition.
[1:21:31] Speaker 16: We make the presupposition, and in that world view, it's
[1:21:34] Speaker 16: coherent your presupposition.
[1:21:38] Speaker 1: You're you're on the Solim train right now, you're in
[1:21:40] Speaker 1: the first car. So what method, what metric can you
[1:21:44] Speaker 1: use to determine that God has revealed something to you?
[1:21:51] Speaker 5: This argument that I'm using, No.
[1:21:54] Speaker 1: No, you can't. Why not because it doesn't have anything
[1:21:58] Speaker 1: to do with whether or not you have no knowledge
[1:22:01] Speaker 1: of the God. You don't know all the possibilities you have.
[1:22:10] Speaker 1: You need omissions for that.
[1:22:12] Speaker 17: Well, I mean I can say there's a God or
[1:22:14] Speaker 17: there's not.
[1:22:16] Speaker 2: What if it's what if low Key is tricking you
[1:22:18] Speaker 2: into thinking you're receiving information about Jahweh.
[1:22:21] Speaker 16: I would have no way of justifying that.
[1:22:25] Speaker 1: You have no way of justifying your God either, So
[1:22:27] Speaker 1: you have no way of justifying if you're receiving revelation
[1:22:30] Speaker 1: from God. You only think that you are.
[1:22:35] Speaker 2: No.
[1:22:35] Speaker 16: My my justification is that I like, I can, I
[1:22:40] Speaker 16: can even like make sense.
[1:22:41] Speaker 17: And cohurrently defend if we're.
[1:22:46] Speaker 18: Going to stipulate, I don't I think this whole conversation
[1:22:48] Speaker 18: is demonstrated that that's not true. If we're going to
[1:22:51] Speaker 18: enter into the realm of predicating things and like actually
[1:22:55] Speaker 18: using language and all this logic and stuff, then like
[1:23:00] Speaker 18: we're kind of sitting, we're resting on all these like.
[1:23:06] Speaker 17: All these categories, like being based.
[1:23:09] Speaker 16: In a thing that's not going to change and turn
[1:23:11] Speaker 16: into something different randomly, But.
[1:23:13] Speaker 1: None of that has to do with our question. The
[1:23:15] Speaker 1: question is, how can you know that you're receiving revelation
[1:23:18] Speaker 1: at all from your God because you have to use
[1:23:21] Speaker 1: your brain to do it. Could you not be just
[1:23:25] Speaker 1: a brain in the vat thinking you're receiving a relation
[1:23:27] Speaker 1: from God. I don't think so why not because you're
[1:23:36] Speaker 1: out of that right now.
[1:23:37] Speaker 16: Because if I okay, so, if I if I'm sitting
[1:23:40] Speaker 16: then you know, the brain in the vat and I'm thinking.
[1:23:44] Speaker 17: That, then it would be I would have to go,
[1:23:47] Speaker 17: you know what in this.
[1:23:48] Speaker 16: Brain ne vat. I really just don't know, like in
[1:23:52] Speaker 16: this knowledge sense when I use my you know, I
[1:23:57] Speaker 16: don't see a brain in the vat. I look around,
[1:23:59] Speaker 16: I see everything else apparently any one.
[1:24:01] Speaker 11: Uh.
[1:24:02] Speaker 17: If I'm coming to this.
[1:24:03] Speaker 16: Conclusion, then I'm really just doing so like in like
[1:24:09] Speaker 16: it just entails that anything like any like nonsense like
[1:24:13] Speaker 16: could be going on in my brain of that.
[1:24:15] Speaker 5: Well, where's the where's where's all this?
[1:24:18] Speaker 1: Does it matter? So that's the whole point behind the
[1:24:21] Speaker 1: brain into that argument is you can't determine whether or
[1:24:24] Speaker 1: not you're in a dream state and everything that's happening
[1:24:26] Speaker 1: in your brain right now is an illusion or if
[1:24:28] Speaker 1: it's reality. That's why I keep telling you, like, if
[1:24:31] Speaker 1: you want to push the atheist into you can't prove anything,
[1:24:35] Speaker 1: then I can. I'm gonna do the same thing to you.
[1:24:37] Speaker 1: I'm just going to push you right into that vat.
[1:24:46] Speaker 1: That's why I told you solm goes both ways. It's
[1:24:48] Speaker 1: the sword that cuts both both both arguments. It's not
[1:24:51] Speaker 1: going to work for you. You got to try something better.
[1:25:00] Speaker 2: Surely you got something better to demonstrate that the Christian
[1:25:03] Speaker 2: God exists?
[1:25:03] Speaker 1: Right, he doesn't. And John, I guess he fell in.
[1:25:16] Speaker 2: Well saying well God makes it to where I can
[1:25:22] Speaker 2: make sense of reality. Nothing about what he just said
[1:25:25] Speaker 2: made sense of anything.
[1:25:27] Speaker 1: There was not a sensible word that left that man's mouth.
[1:25:31] Speaker 1: You know what, though at least he was nice about it.
[1:25:34] Speaker 1: I mean I don't think he was having a good time,
[1:25:38] Speaker 1: but he was nice. What was his name again, Christ
[1:25:40] Speaker 1: something or another? Christ is King yeast, Christ is King
[1:25:47] Speaker 1: of the vat all right.
[1:25:48] Speaker 2: Could have swore he was a Muslim.
[1:25:50] Speaker 1: I'm just gonna let me grab a couple of Supertest friends.
[1:25:55] Speaker 1: We'll get our next guests in here right away. Jeff,
[1:25:57] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the ten dollars supertests too.
[1:26:00] Speaker 1: Us read poems by Maya Angelou. I know why the
[1:26:03] Speaker 1: cage burg sings and still I rise well. I really
[1:26:06] Speaker 1: appreciate the suggestion. Shoot me a message in the discord
[1:26:11] Speaker 1: where I can. I'll just google it. I'll be able
[1:26:13] Speaker 1: to find it. Remind me of that so after the
[1:26:15] Speaker 1: stream I'll be able to get right on that side.
[1:26:18] Speaker 1: Thank you for the ten dollars super chat says call
[1:26:21] Speaker 1: me sin Oh, I'm sorry, sin suggestion to all of you.
[1:26:25] Speaker 1: If you haven't watched Lucifer the TV show, it is
[1:26:28] Speaker 1: a must watch. It shows God is not good and
[1:26:31] Speaker 1: Lucifer was not the bad guy most of the time.
[1:26:34] Speaker 1: I agree with this.
[1:26:36] Speaker 2: I love that show and God is played by the
[1:26:38] Speaker 2: guy from all State your beds.
[1:26:43] Speaker 1: Mandy, thank you so much for the twenty dollars. Super
[1:26:46] Speaker 1: chat is the h in your last name for handy?
[1:26:49] Speaker 1: Are you Mandy Handy? Because that would be a really
[1:26:51] Speaker 1: cool naming scheme. Says, if this unearthing machine is loving,
[1:26:55] Speaker 1: where he is? Where is he when a child and
[1:26:59] Speaker 1: an animal cry for help from abuse and pain that
[1:27:03] Speaker 1: he created an a loud hail dog. I know he'll
[1:27:06] Speaker 1: never create those horrible conditions. Never. And the theodicy is
[1:27:10] Speaker 1: one of the greatest arguments against God. If God is real,
[1:27:13] Speaker 1: then there's no reason to have all the needless carnage
[1:27:17] Speaker 1: that we see here on the earth. Maybe there could
[1:27:21] Speaker 1: be some a limited amount of something like what we
[1:27:24] Speaker 1: would call necessary suffering, But I don't even I'm not
[1:27:27] Speaker 1: even convinced we need that. That seems like that could
[1:27:29] Speaker 1: be resolved, resolved with an all powerful deity. And Adam says,
[1:27:34] Speaker 1: justin have you ever considered the fact that you can
[1:27:36] Speaker 1: choke to death on a hot dog as an argument
[1:27:39] Speaker 1: against fine tuning. Well, I've used to run this argument
[1:27:43] Speaker 1: back in the day, and I think people got tired
[1:27:45] Speaker 1: of it. I used to run the argument I had
[1:27:47] Speaker 1: a statistic for how many children choke to death every
[1:27:50] Speaker 1: year as an argument against fine tuning In fact, I've
[1:27:54] Speaker 1: one of my first atheist songs on my TikTok I
[1:27:57] Speaker 1: used to make. I made some atheist songs like two
[1:27:59] Speaker 1: Summers Ago talks about that very thing. Yeah, the fact
[1:28:02] Speaker 1: that that children. Anyone who's ever had a child knows
[1:28:07] Speaker 1: there's gonna there's multiple times in that child's life where
[1:28:09] Speaker 1: you have to reach down its throat and pull something
[1:28:12] Speaker 1: out of its throat or it's gonna choke to death.
[1:28:14] Speaker 1: Every child does it. It's crazy that that was a
[1:28:16] Speaker 1: fine tune design and huper thank you for the ten
[1:28:20] Speaker 1: dour super Chest says the superiority of the horizontal chat
[1:28:24] Speaker 1: is both cultural and technological. Both our live chat and
[1:28:27] Speaker 1: our poststream chats are better. We are the horizon for
[1:28:31] Speaker 1: all to follow. Oh my goodness, listen, Hugh, I don't
[1:28:35] Speaker 1: know what to tell you. While while your words, I
[1:28:39] Speaker 1: mean really are lifting some spirits right now, I have
[1:28:42] Speaker 1: to say that the memberships on the horizontal stream are
[1:28:44] Speaker 1: lagging the vertical stream so seriously that it feels it
[1:28:49] Speaker 1: feels just like smack talk to me, empty smack talk
[1:28:53] Speaker 1: and Yoda. Thank you for the ten dour Superchest says
[1:28:55] Speaker 1: Mobile defaults to deconstruction zone when you click memberships, So
[1:28:59] Speaker 1: to get a DZ Debates membership, you need a computer.
[1:29:03] Speaker 1: That's why the numbers differ either way. Horizontal supremacy.
[1:29:07] Speaker 2: No, no, no.
[1:29:07] Speaker 1: If you go to my channel on the horizontal stream
[1:29:11] Speaker 1: and click join, it'll take you to DEZ Debates. Now,
[1:29:15] Speaker 1: it might be in the description of a video. It
[1:29:18] Speaker 1: might be that the description of the video that link
[1:29:20] Speaker 1: takes you to the main channel. I don't know about that.
[1:29:22] Speaker 1: But no, no, if you hit join on the main page,
[1:29:24] Speaker 1: it'll take you to whatever page you're on. DEX. Thank
[1:29:27] Speaker 1: you for the ten dollar superchat. My friend says, what
[1:29:29] Speaker 1: might quicken the moral conversation is to get them to
[1:29:32] Speaker 1: admit that people do use subjective morality, so it exists
[1:29:36] Speaker 1: whether they like it or not. Then they can prove
[1:29:38] Speaker 1: objective morality. This is not a bad idea. I've seen
[1:29:41] Speaker 1: Joel do this, and Joel does it really, really well.
[1:29:44] Speaker 1: I haven't put together an argument to do that, but
[1:29:46] Speaker 1: I should, DEX this is a good idea. I'll put
[1:29:48] Speaker 1: together a syllogism to demonstrate, or at least an analogy
[1:29:52] Speaker 1: to demonstrate that subjective morals do exist, and then I
[1:29:55] Speaker 1: can switch it over and say, now, prove that objective
[1:29:58] Speaker 1: morals exists. And two more superchats Friends Stateful Stateful, True
[1:30:03] Speaker 1: Heretics says, horizontal stream is the place for Doug's true followers.
[1:30:07] Speaker 1: Horizontal streams popping off the night they do not like
[1:30:09] Speaker 1: vertical stream. Join the heretical sect of the horizontal worship.
[1:30:12] Speaker 1: If you are dtf b TTF, I know what that
[1:30:17] Speaker 1: means elsewhere like us and get fracked. Oh, down to frack, Okay,
[1:30:22] Speaker 1: sideways for pebbles, much love justice. Down to frack is amazing.
[1:30:27] Speaker 1: By the way. That yeah, that's the new slogan. That's
[1:30:33] Speaker 1: the new slogan for pebbles. Down to frack. We finally
[1:30:35] Speaker 1: found a slogan for pebbles. HP says, Let the vertical
[1:30:39] Speaker 1: heretics have their day in the sun. We all know
[1:30:42] Speaker 1: the horizontal stream is the fastest growing stream out there.
[1:30:44] Speaker 1: These vertic vertics will soon know who Doug really shines on. God,
[1:30:51] Speaker 1: the war is on and Viper Viper's sending a hard
[1:30:56] Speaker 1: shot twenty DZ debate gifted memberships. That's a huge cannon shot.
[1:31:01] Speaker 1: Thank you, Vipra. I really appreciate that. And with that,
[1:31:04] Speaker 1: let's get our next guest in here. We're gonna get
[1:31:07] Speaker 1: Fie and then Chris and then Simeon in that order.
[1:31:16] Speaker 1: The battle of the two streams is getting pretty hot
[1:31:19] Speaker 1: right now. I didn't know this is a.
[1:31:22] Speaker 2: Great schism, a great schism of twenty five Yeah.
[1:31:26] Speaker 1: I Fie, welcome in. Are you least eighteen? And do
[1:31:28] Speaker 1: you believe in Godden?
[1:31:35] Speaker 2: Fine? Hello, fee Fie.
[1:31:44] Speaker 1: I might they might be a bar by accident. All right,
[1:31:46] Speaker 1: Well if you if you're a bar by accident, I'll
[1:31:49] Speaker 1: go and cut you. Come back if you want to talk,
[1:31:50] Speaker 1: and we'll we'll get you plugged in with that, We'll
[1:31:53] Speaker 1: grab our guests from the YouTube. Que Chris, Chris, are
[1:31:57] Speaker 1: you at least eighteen? And do you believe in God?
[1:32:01] Speaker 5: Yes?
[1:32:01] Speaker 11: I am eighteen and I do believe in God.
[1:32:05] Speaker 1: Awesome? And is it a particular God or origineary God?
[1:32:10] Speaker 11: I am Seventh day Adventist.
[1:32:15] Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. So what's your favorite argument or
[1:32:19] Speaker 1: evidence for the Christian God being real?
[1:32:23] Speaker 19: Well, there's two things. One an experiment and I did
[1:32:28] Speaker 19: while I was in school and the Tower of Babble.
[1:32:33] Speaker 19: That's two pieces of evidence that I want to present.
[1:32:38] Speaker 2: Well, you've got my interest, Yeah, tell me about your experiment.
[1:32:46] Speaker 19: In school, we grew plants in complete darkness and they
[1:32:52] Speaker 19: grew for two weeks before we pulled them out in
[1:32:54] Speaker 19: the light. Okay, so what, Well, it verifies plants being being.
[1:33:07] Speaker 11: Created before sunlight in Genesis.
[1:33:12] Speaker 1: But so what, no one, No one cares about that.
[1:33:15] Speaker 1: There's nothing to do with your God being real.
[1:33:20] Speaker 11: It's just.
[1:33:22] Speaker 1: I've literally never used this argument before. As we know
[1:33:26] Speaker 1: that plants get nutrients from the soil. They can survive
[1:33:28] Speaker 1: a time period without sunlight, like they go out of
[1:33:31] Speaker 1: sunlight like every night, they it's gone.
[1:33:36] Speaker 19: I completely understand that it's just evidence I wanted to
[1:33:43] Speaker 19: present because it's just something I thought it would be
[1:33:49] Speaker 19: interesting evidence. There's been many times it's been said that
[1:33:57] Speaker 19: plants were created before sunlight. Well, that was an experiment
[1:34:04] Speaker 19: we did in class.
[1:34:05] Speaker 11: So yeah, I've.
[1:34:06] Speaker 1: Never said said that. Only to the people who say
[1:34:09] Speaker 1: that the six days of creation aren't literal, like there's
[1:34:11] Speaker 1: a thousand years, then I would say, well, the plants
[1:34:15] Speaker 1: didn't exist in darkness for a thousand years or without sunlight.
[1:34:18] Speaker 1: That would be silly. But if you believe in a
[1:34:20] Speaker 1: literal one day, one day, one day, one day, then yeah,
[1:34:23] Speaker 1: it's fine. Plants can survive a day without sunshine.
[1:34:27] Speaker 19: Oh no, no, no, no, I don't.
[1:34:28] Speaker 2: Believe a possible.
[1:34:31] Speaker 11: I went too dead. But you know, I'm I'm I kind.
[1:34:37] Speaker 19: Of grew out of that. So, yeah, that's one experiment
[1:34:42] Speaker 19: that we did.
[1:34:44] Speaker 11: What's that?
[1:34:47] Speaker 1: What's your next bullet point?
[1:34:49] Speaker 11: The Tower of Babbel.
[1:34:52] Speaker 19: There was an explosion of different languages and different writings
[1:34:56] Speaker 19: throughout the world roughly around the same time. And that's
[1:35:03] Speaker 19: just interesting how that happened. When I was in college,
[1:35:09] Speaker 19: I did a paper on it, and roughly within fifty
[1:35:18] Speaker 19: two one hundred years there was different writings and different
[1:35:22] Speaker 19: languages throughout the entire world, roughly around.
[1:35:32] Speaker 11: Five thousand BC.
[1:35:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, because people could speak and write. The reality is
[1:35:39] Speaker 1: we had just as many languages prior to five thousand BC.
[1:35:43] Speaker 1: We just didn't have any record of it. Like people, we
[1:35:46] Speaker 1: didn't have.
[1:35:46] Speaker 11: No I'm talking throughout the entire world.
[1:35:49] Speaker 19: That's North America, South America, Asia, everywhere else.
[1:35:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, we had many languages prior to
[1:35:57] Speaker 1: the invention of writing too, we just don't have record
[1:36:00] Speaker 1: of it because nobody was writing. Why would we think
[1:36:05] Speaker 1: there was there were a language prior to the invention
[1:36:07] Speaker 1: of writing.
[1:36:09] Speaker 2: And to be sure. I don't think that we can
[1:36:12] Speaker 2: demonstrate with any evidence that all languages streamed back to
[1:36:16] Speaker 2: one common source. It's more likely that there were several
[1:36:20] Speaker 2: sort of springs from which, like a language has evolved.
[1:36:26] Speaker 19: Well, Latin has the Romance languages have a common source?
[1:36:34] Speaker 19: So does does Germanic languages have a common source?
[1:36:38] Speaker 11: So does the.
[1:36:40] Speaker 2: Do the native languages of North and South America have
[1:36:43] Speaker 2: a common source with any of the languages found in
[1:36:46] Speaker 2: the Mesopotamia. I don't think so.
[1:36:52] Speaker 11: They all have a common source.
[1:36:54] Speaker 19: I don't know what the common source set all does
[1:36:57] Speaker 19: trace back to. I couldn't. I couldn't find the source
[1:37:01] Speaker 19: trace back to those. But there's like seven common sources
[1:37:07] Speaker 19: all these languages.
[1:37:09] Speaker 1: Is yeah, Homo hobbles, probably maybe one or two languages.
[1:37:14] Speaker 19: Yeah, years ago Homa, how Habilensis one of those two
[1:37:23] Speaker 19: had languages.
[1:37:25] Speaker 1: Yeah, not not, Chris, I mean, surely you can see
[1:37:29] Speaker 1: that none of this demonstrates that the Christian God is real.
[1:37:31] Speaker 11: Right, It's it's evidence for.
[1:37:39] Speaker 1: What how So to be sure, the splitting of the
[1:37:43] Speaker 1: languages was already recorded by the Sumerians way before the Bible.
[1:37:47] Speaker 1: In fact, the Bible just is riffing on the Mesopotamian
[1:37:50] Speaker 1: edition of it.
[1:37:53] Speaker 11: Yeah, mm hmm.
[1:37:59] Speaker 1: Right, So if I'm going to say that this is
[1:38:01] Speaker 1: proof of anything, I would say it's proof that Marduke
[1:38:03] Speaker 1: is lord. What's the proof that Yahweh's Lord?
[1:38:06] Speaker 2: Yeah? Obviously. Also, when we talk about the splitting of
[1:38:08] Speaker 2: languages in the Hebrew Bible, the Hebrew Bible seems to
[1:38:11] Speaker 2: be insidient way the first language was Hebrew, and that's
[1:38:14] Speaker 2: definitely not the case.
[1:38:16] Speaker 1: I know that. That's so funny. Yeah, because the naming
[1:38:18] Speaker 1: of Eve, she was given her name based on Hebrew grammar,
[1:38:23] Speaker 1: and this crazy Hebrew grammar didn't exist when Eve was around.
[1:38:27] Speaker 11: I thought it would be something like not Babylonian. Oh Jesus. Wise,
[1:38:37] Speaker 11: I can't remember what.
[1:38:42] Speaker 2: Their names are Adam and those are Hebrew words.
[1:38:48] Speaker 1: Yeah. It says that she should be called in Esha
[1:38:53] Speaker 1: because she comes from Ish, which is a play on
[1:38:56] Speaker 1: Hebrew grammar. It's the feminine form of man, just means
[1:39:00] Speaker 1: like a man, like a dude.
[1:39:03] Speaker 2: So Adam is only called odd because he's taken from
[1:39:06] Speaker 2: Adama from the dust of the earth. That pindly only
[1:39:09] Speaker 2: makes sense in Hebrew.
[1:39:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, And Cravas, the Mother of all living is a
[1:39:14] Speaker 1: play on the word.
[1:39:17] Speaker 2: Kai. Yeah.
[1:39:19] Speaker 1: Like, the reality is, like, we know for a fact
[1:39:23] Speaker 1: that Hebrew didn't exist until like the tenth or the
[1:39:26] Speaker 1: ninth century BCE. There's no way that Hebrew existed and
[1:39:30] Speaker 1: then disappeared and then came back one thousand years later.
[1:39:34] Speaker 19: Yeah, but it came back in a more advanced form evidence.
[1:39:40] Speaker 2: Please, are you talking about modern Hebrew?
[1:39:43] Speaker 11: No, No, I'm just saying there was Paleo Hebrew and.
[1:39:46] Speaker 1: Band yeah, yeah, exactly. Hebrew evolved from the Semitic languages.
[1:39:54] Speaker 1: Prior to Biblical Hebrew was Paleo Hebrew and then probably
[1:39:58] Speaker 1: Phoenician mixedist protosign prior to that, anyone's guess. But the
[1:40:03] Speaker 1: reality is, we have no reason to believe that Adam
[1:40:06] Speaker 1: and Eve were speaking Hebrew, as the Book of Genesis
[1:40:09] Speaker 1: would suggest.
[1:40:11] Speaker 19: No, I think I thought they were probably speaking something
[1:40:15] Speaker 19: like like, oh, I can't remember. It's it's been a
[1:40:24] Speaker 19: while since I was in college. I'm sorry, my brain
[1:40:31] Speaker 19: is lost.
[1:40:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, that happens, o't worre But uh well, Chris, did
[1:40:37] Speaker 1: you have anything.
[1:40:38] Speaker 20: Else for us?
[1:40:40] Speaker 19: I'm afraid not. You guys are absolutely wonderful. I do apologize.
[1:40:45] Speaker 1: No, You're fine. Is good talking to you. They're they're
[1:40:47] Speaker 1: interesting topics at least.
[1:40:50] Speaker 11: Thank you so very much for your time.
[1:40:52] Speaker 1: Sure to have a good one.
[1:40:55] Speaker 2: A lot of nice guests today.
[1:40:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like there's something strange afoot, Like we
[1:41:03] Speaker 1: haven't had any crashouts yet and it's already seven forty.
[1:41:08] Speaker 2: It's the calm before the storm, justin.
[1:41:10] Speaker 1: That's what it is.
[1:41:11] Speaker 3: That's what it is.
[1:41:12] Speaker 1: The sea waters have come or the ocean waters are
[1:41:15] Speaker 1: getting sucked in right before the hurricane. Bear in Mind says,
[1:41:19] Speaker 1: a great name. By the way, does Doug approve of
[1:41:22] Speaker 1: consuming stone soup? And if so, is that both the
[1:41:26] Speaker 1: body and blood of Doug? And yes, Doug is all
[1:41:29] Speaker 1: for stone soup as long as you're not doing it
[1:41:31] Speaker 1: like the story suggests, to trick people. Doug is an
[1:41:35] Speaker 1: interested in tricking people. Yeah, but enjoy some stone soup
[1:41:38] Speaker 1: if that's what you need for sure, JDM missed. Thank
[1:41:42] Speaker 1: you for the fight hour. Supertest says so saith Doug,
[1:41:45] Speaker 1: the Truth, delight, and the Way are only found horizontally
[1:41:48] Speaker 1: all hill the rock of Ages. I don't know about that,
[1:41:52] Speaker 1: false prophet. I don't know about that. Listen, JDM, the
[1:41:56] Speaker 1: jury is still out. Thank you, for the support, though
[1:41:58] Speaker 1: and overly polite rebel, thank you for the five dollars spirit,
[1:42:01] Speaker 1: says Maya Angelou, an author, poet, performer, and activist her autobiography.
[1:42:06] Speaker 1: I know what the Cage Briggs sings is widely taught universities. Yeah,
[1:42:10] Speaker 1: you know, I was already out of school. I think
[1:42:13] Speaker 1: when the when the book was getting popular, or at
[1:42:15] Speaker 1: least where I was. I'm sad that I didn't actually
[1:42:18] Speaker 1: get to read it. I maybe it's time to get
[1:42:20] Speaker 1: the book and read it.
[1:42:21] Speaker 2: I don't know, and I didn't go to college, so
[1:42:24] Speaker 2: that's my excuse.
[1:42:26] Speaker 1: Exactly, John, Although I mean, listen, you would Dalton tote
[1:42:30] Speaker 1: to toe with anyone who did go to Bible college
[1:42:32] Speaker 1: a seminary and he's gonna he's gonna clean him up.
[1:42:35] Speaker 1: John says, justin the Browns, how well, sometimes you get lucky.
[1:42:39] Speaker 1: You know that you don't need skill if you have
[1:42:40] Speaker 1: luck as part of the Holy Trinity. Please rain down
[1:42:44] Speaker 1: Doug's blessings on the Saints. Rock hard for Doug and
[1:42:48] Speaker 1: f Mega couldn't agree more. And listen, we we got
[1:42:51] Speaker 1: nothing against the Saints. I hope the Saints win. We'll
[1:42:53] Speaker 1: definitely pray to Doug for the Saints, and Test says,
[1:42:56] Speaker 1: as liquefied rock magma erupts force free upwards, So will
[1:43:00] Speaker 1: Doug smite the heretics in the horizontal? Yeah? I don't
[1:43:04] Speaker 1: know if he's gonna smite the heretics in the horizontal.
[1:43:07] Speaker 1: Being that Doug approves of both streams, I don't know
[1:43:11] Speaker 1: how many times you can say this. Doug loves all
[1:43:13] Speaker 1: horizontal and vertical streaming. Adam says the Thorpes perfectly illustrate
[1:43:18] Speaker 1: Christian degeneracy. I couldn't agree more. Yeah, Ben Thorpe, there's
[1:43:24] Speaker 1: just Google, Ben Thorpe, and you're gonna find some stuff
[1:43:27] Speaker 1: I want. Am, I gonna tell you what you're gonna find.
[1:43:29] Speaker 1: You're gonna find some stuff. Crucifix me says Tower babble
[1:43:33] Speaker 1: crashed syntax error in speech. Yeah, four h four not found. Uh.
[1:43:39] Speaker 1: Snipnut says, as liquefied rock magma sits horizontally in the ground,
[1:43:44] Speaker 1: the verticals called this lava magma another blasphemy. Do not
[1:43:49] Speaker 1: be deceived. I don't know it does erupt vertically, you
[1:43:53] Speaker 1: know what I mean? Snip, I'm just saying. Hammond says, Hi, guys,
[1:43:57] Speaker 1: do you know why Elle was synthesized with Yahweh, but
[1:44:01] Speaker 1: not Bail. They are really similar to each other or
[1:44:04] Speaker 1: in other early is reg okay, So here's what you
[1:44:07] Speaker 1: need to know. So the reason why they were assimilated,
[1:44:11] Speaker 1: why Yahweh and Bail were assimilated, not Bail, Yahweh and
[1:44:14] Speaker 1: L were assimilated, is because L was the highest deity
[1:44:17] Speaker 1: of the pantheon. They needed to replace that highest deity
[1:44:21] Speaker 1: with our favorite deity, so that's why they picked off L.
[1:44:24] Speaker 1: That being said, there are a couple psalms that are
[1:44:29] Speaker 1: entirely just repurposed psalms that were originally about bail. We've
[1:44:33] Speaker 1: got mentions of them in the Ugarritic literature that are
[1:44:36] Speaker 1: clearly showing not word for word, but very similar psalms
[1:44:41] Speaker 1: existed way before the Bible for bail.
[1:44:43] Speaker 2: So yeah, they were in competition with women.
[1:44:46] Speaker 1: The mother Grim says to defeat justin, just at, just at.
[1:44:50] Speaker 1: Tell him to defeat justin, just tell him to look
[1:44:54] Speaker 1: at the trees for ian A Deep sends him ruzzing Blitz.
[1:44:59] Speaker 1: Ask him if reality is made in tho at we see.
[1:45:04] Speaker 1: I don't know what those words mean, but Grim, I
[1:45:07] Speaker 1: see what you're saying here, and I appreciate it, and
[1:45:10] Speaker 1: I'm gonna go three more super chests. We'll get our
[1:45:12] Speaker 1: next guests in here. Sean says, if offered, would you
[1:45:15] Speaker 1: ever be a part of one of those Jubilee videos
[1:45:17] Speaker 1: where one atheist debates a group of theits, like Alex
[1:45:19] Speaker 1: O'Connor or a similar video A million percent I've been
[1:45:23] Speaker 1: trying want to get on. I don't know. I don't
[1:45:25] Speaker 1: know why they haven't called me, call me. I'll gladly
[1:45:27] Speaker 1: take on twenty theists. I have no problem with it.
[1:45:30] Speaker 1: I'll i'll I won't be going out. Lord Jordan Peterson,
[1:45:34] Speaker 1: I'll tell you that. Doctor Fudge says, why do so
[1:45:37] Speaker 1: many people think they can support their argument solely by
[1:45:39] Speaker 1: undermining the opposite position, Because in philosophy, what they want
[1:45:43] Speaker 1: to do, like if they don't have a real argument
[1:45:46] Speaker 1: for their position, what they want to do is at
[1:45:49] Speaker 1: least invalidate yours and then pound their fist on the
[1:45:52] Speaker 1: table and say, see I'm right. Well, no, that's not
[1:45:55] Speaker 1: really how argumentation works. But if that's the best you
[1:45:58] Speaker 1: can do, it'll fool some people, but I did won't
[1:46:00] Speaker 1: fool anyone with an actual brain. And Tim Davidson thank
[1:46:04] Speaker 1: you for the super tests. As a child, I understood SpongeBob.
[1:46:07] Speaker 1: As an adult, I understand squid word. Oh my gosh,
[1:46:10] Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. Yes, as an adult, doesn't your
[1:46:13] Speaker 1: heart go out to squidward? I mean, I'm just saying it,
[1:46:17] Speaker 1: the saying we all grow up. Let me get Simeon
[1:46:20] Speaker 1: from the queue. Simeon, welcome in.
[1:46:29] Speaker 2: Ooh, cannot hear you, Simeon, Simeon?
[1:46:31] Speaker 4: Do it?
[1:46:32] Speaker 1: Do you have your audio selected? Audio set? I think, oh,
[1:46:37] Speaker 1: there we go. We got you now?
[1:46:40] Speaker 5: Okay, Hi, how am I doing good?
[1:46:42] Speaker 1: Are you doing?
[1:46:45] Speaker 3: It's good?
[1:46:47] Speaker 21: So I would just say, uh, I grew up in
[1:46:51] Speaker 21: a Christian home, and it was hard to understand right,
[1:46:55] Speaker 21: we're wrong because you were influenced by those that raise you.
[1:47:01] Speaker 21: So it was easier by default to believe that there
[1:47:04] Speaker 21: is a God because of practices that we were supposed
[1:47:09] Speaker 21: to obey and understand the commandments, even when Yahweh didn't
[1:47:16] Speaker 21: actually kept his promises, since he lied to add them
[1:47:20] Speaker 21: about the fruit of knowledge, saying you shall surely die
[1:47:23] Speaker 21: and didn't die when he ate the fruit.
[1:47:26] Speaker 1: It sounds like you're an atheist.
[1:47:27] Speaker 21: Amean well is a half transition to atheism. Let's just
[1:47:35] Speaker 21: say because I feel like there's some part of ourselves
[1:47:38] Speaker 21: we can agree and some things about ourselves as creators
[1:47:43] Speaker 21: on earth, like how gods that we used to believe
[1:47:46] Speaker 21: in the past are created the heaps and the earth.
[1:47:49] Speaker 10: So in my mind, I believe that we.
[1:47:51] Speaker 21: Are also our gods because we create jobs, healthcare, we
[1:47:57] Speaker 21: understand science time.
[1:48:00] Speaker 5: Like hundreds of years.
[1:48:03] Speaker 21: So I just want to know based on your viewpoint
[1:48:06] Speaker 21: about that.
[1:48:07] Speaker 17: Your topic is, do you believe in God?
[1:48:11] Speaker 21: I believe in ourselves as gods if that makes sense,
[1:48:15] Speaker 21: because you can see evidence of jobs around you, even
[1:48:20] Speaker 21: when we have a long way to go to help
[1:48:22] Speaker 21: like everybody, we did have. We did create things that
[1:48:27] Speaker 21: happen to inspire our communities, like how gods wanted to
[1:48:32] Speaker 21: take credit to create whatever imagination they think about their powers.
[1:48:39] Speaker 2: I think with me and justin think about gods, we
[1:48:42] Speaker 2: mean like supernatural beings who are responsible for some forces
[1:48:46] Speaker 2: of nature, if not like for creating the world. I
[1:48:50] Speaker 2: think that when you start using the word god so
[1:48:54] Speaker 2: loosely that it's kind of sort of loses his meaning
[1:48:58] Speaker 2: and it doesn't mean anything.
[1:49:01] Speaker 6: That's true that's true.
[1:49:04] Speaker 21: I just I just have more of a like creation
[1:49:08] Speaker 21: in terms of what others think about who created us,
[1:49:12] Speaker 21: because even that that's not even evidence. Even the Christians
[1:49:17] Speaker 21: that also tried to defend this argument and so so
[1:49:22] Speaker 21: so so, so you guys do so do you? You
[1:49:25] Speaker 21: guys don't think that you also create this podcast like
[1:49:28] Speaker 21: a like a god.
[1:49:30] Speaker 1: No, we don't believe in gotten at all.
[1:49:33] Speaker 21: Oh you don't, okay, so not even not even yourself
[1:49:36] Speaker 21: do yourself as Okay?
[1:49:38] Speaker 5: No?
[1:49:38] Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, definitionly speaking, human beings aren't gods,
[1:49:42] Speaker 1: like it's baked into the definition of the word.
[1:49:44] Speaker 12: Right.
[1:49:46] Speaker 1: There is there is.
[1:49:49] Speaker 21: People just want to know about knowledge and if there
[1:49:51] Speaker 21: wasn't a god. And I tried to tell them that, well,
[1:49:55] Speaker 21: if you gain the knowledge yourself, does that give you
[1:49:58] Speaker 21: the credit? And that they kind of understand that, but
[1:50:00] Speaker 21: they think that that is beyond our imagination because we're
[1:50:03] Speaker 21: human beings.
[1:50:04] Speaker 1: Let's start with an early like a super easy syllogism
[1:50:08] Speaker 1: like premise number one, gods are not supernatural or gods
[1:50:17] Speaker 1: are supernatural?
[1:50:19] Speaker 5: Right?
[1:50:19] Speaker 1: Do we agree there?
[1:50:22] Speaker 22: Yeah?
[1:50:22] Speaker 21: But Jesus told the multitude when they accuse him to
[1:50:25] Speaker 21: be God in the New Testament that he clarified to
[1:50:30] Speaker 21: tell the audience in juisalem that you know you're.
[1:50:33] Speaker 1: Not a Christian? Are you? I thought you didn't believe
[1:50:35] Speaker 1: in Jesus the Christian religion.
[1:50:37] Speaker 21: I am halfway transitioning to deconstruction.
[1:50:42] Speaker 2: Okay.
[1:50:42] Speaker 1: Also, if God is supernatural, can we agree on that
[1:50:47] Speaker 1: that whatever a God is, it must be supernatural.
[1:50:55] Speaker 21: In the religious viewpoint, yes.
[1:50:58] Speaker 1: But no no in like reality. In the reality viewpoint.
[1:51:04] Speaker 21: It would be no because they wouldn't be to discover evidence.
[1:51:11] Speaker 1: So you just don't believe in God, you're an atheist?
[1:51:15] Speaker 21: Well, I just believe in what I can bring here
[1:51:18] Speaker 21: on earth, just like everyone that's trying to do the
[1:51:20] Speaker 21: exact same thing to make the world a better place.
[1:51:22] Speaker 1: Yeah, but the faithism.
[1:51:27] Speaker 21: So okay, Well that's so I can understand that definition.
[1:51:35] Speaker 21: My philosopher who was I used to disagree a while back,
[1:51:41] Speaker 21: claim that there is a certain way that we extend
[1:51:44] Speaker 21: ourselves to view as like godly examples to do like
[1:51:49] Speaker 21: great things in the world and impact that way. But
[1:51:53] Speaker 21: he didn't really entie to that as supernatural of course.
[1:51:57] Speaker 21: But it's more to like like like the evolution of
[1:52:03] Speaker 21: how humans are able to create things on earth as
[1:52:06] Speaker 21: out like adswa.
[1:52:07] Speaker 3: See.
[1:52:07] Speaker 1: Yeah, so you just don't believe in God anymore, you're
[1:52:09] Speaker 1: an atheist. Welcome to the clubs. I mean, there's nothing
[1:52:12] Speaker 1: wrong with it. We eat lots of bacon, No one
[1:52:14] Speaker 1: cares where you put your dingling. It's a great time.
[1:52:16] Speaker 1: But you are, in fact, friend and atheist. Now, if
[1:52:19] Speaker 1: you don't believe in a supernatural being that created all things.
[1:52:23] Speaker 5: I don't.
[1:52:24] Speaker 10: I don't.
[1:52:25] Speaker 21: In terms of where all the can Knites came from it,
[1:52:29] Speaker 21: they did not come from Adam and Eve from the beginning,
[1:52:32] Speaker 21: because even the Bible says that the mark of Canaan
[1:52:35] Speaker 21: will go to Caine and no man will harm you.
[1:52:37] Speaker 21: But that was way before Eve was the mother of humanity.
[1:52:42] Speaker 21: So who was the mother of the Canaan knights? And
[1:52:44] Speaker 21: that that was actually shocking to me. But uh, I
[1:52:49] Speaker 21: I would not, I don't.
[1:52:50] Speaker 5: I don't know.
[1:52:51] Speaker 1: It's just listen. I mean, it's okay. If you're not
[1:52:54] Speaker 1: ready to wear the atheist badge, you are in fact
[1:52:56] Speaker 1: and atheists, even though you don't recognize it yet. Give
[1:52:59] Speaker 1: it some time, Take take a couple nights of sleep
[1:53:02] Speaker 1: and think about it, and come back. Let me let
[1:53:04] Speaker 1: me know where you're at in a few days.
[1:53:08] Speaker 21: Yes, of course, it's always and perhaps maybe more of
[1:53:10] Speaker 21: a personal podcast.
[1:53:12] Speaker 17: I don't know, like an interview.
[1:53:14] Speaker 21: I have so much questions, but yeah, you know, it
[1:53:16] Speaker 21: would be great to have this really discussion.
[1:53:20] Speaker 1: Yeah for sure, we'll do a Q and A in
[1:53:22] Speaker 1: the future. Okay, all right, take care guys.
[1:53:27] Speaker 2: Uh so, only somewhat related. That passage from John ten
[1:53:31] Speaker 2: is like the weirdest out of context quote of the
[1:53:35] Speaker 2: Old Testament in the entire Bible and New Testament for me,
[1:53:38] Speaker 2: like the I say you are God's flying into the Pharisees,
[1:53:43] Speaker 2: weirdest out of weirdest quote in the New Testament.
[1:53:46] Speaker 1: It's a wild one. I think it sounds like a
[1:53:49] Speaker 1: justification for Jesus' own divinity, Like they need to find
[1:53:55] Speaker 1: some way to use God that is in line with
[1:53:58] Speaker 1: the Old Testament. And that's that's the method they did.
[1:54:01] Speaker 1: They made up a fake dialogue where Jesus essentially references
[1:54:05] Speaker 1: Psalm eighty.
[1:54:05] Speaker 2: Two up and goes with the law.
[1:54:10] Speaker 1: Whoever wrote John was not a Jew. I don't care
[1:54:13] Speaker 1: who wrote it. That person was not a Jew. That's
[1:54:15] Speaker 1: one hundred percent of fact. Lou Vena, thank you for
[1:54:18] Speaker 1: the twenty five dollars on Venmo. I super super appreciate that.
[1:54:23] Speaker 1: Lou's a that's a huge, huge, generous W and uh
[1:54:28] Speaker 1: for those who weren't here earlier. Yeah, if you send
[1:54:30] Speaker 1: something on Venmo, cash up and Propel, one hundred percent
[1:54:33] Speaker 1: of it goes to the creator and none of it
[1:54:35] Speaker 1: goes to the interfaces that we used to talk to you, Gus,
[1:54:40] Speaker 1: thank you for the five dollars, super jest, just Cauz,
[1:54:43] Speaker 1: we appreciate that, big W and patch Grabber, great to
[1:54:46] Speaker 1: see you. Thank you for the five canuck Buck says,
[1:54:48] Speaker 1: I love poetry. I'm a poet and I don't even
[1:54:51] Speaker 1: write poems. Damn it, never mind, I think you missed
[1:54:53] Speaker 1: the opportunity, Patch Grabber. I see the joke you laid
[1:54:56] Speaker 1: out for us, though. That was a good one. And
[1:54:58] Speaker 1: BC says I I also watch both streams depending on
[1:55:02] Speaker 1: my mood. I'm i am verticontal in still rock hard
[1:55:07] Speaker 1: for Doug. Actually, I do the same thing, and I
[1:55:10] Speaker 1: tell you why. If I'm watching something like while I'm
[1:55:12] Speaker 1: waiting in my car, I watch it horizontal, I put
[1:55:14] Speaker 1: it on my magnet, I turn it horizontal, and the
[1:55:17] Speaker 1: reason is because it I don't want my the way
[1:55:20] Speaker 1: my phone sits. Sometimes if I do it vertical, It
[1:55:24] Speaker 1: just and I have to plug it in because I'm
[1:55:27] Speaker 1: watching something the plug in touches my screen. But if
[1:55:31] Speaker 1: if it's unplugged and I'm just watching a stream, a
[1:55:34] Speaker 1: lot of times I'll just watch vertical, you know, because
[1:55:37] Speaker 1: I'm used to it from TikTok and no.
[1:55:39] Speaker 2: I had I had someone say that I have a
[1:55:41] Speaker 2: lawyer chair, which I think is appropriate because you know what,
[1:55:45] Speaker 2: I got objections.
[1:55:49] Speaker 1: That, Oh that, where's my soundboard? And I open my
[1:55:52] Speaker 1: soundboard today, where's there we go? A mirror? Oh sorry,
[1:55:58] Speaker 1: dex quicken the moral comfort? Oh so I think we
[1:56:01] Speaker 1: read that one already. We wanted to mirrors a mirror.
[1:56:04] Speaker 1: Thank you for the five dollars supertest says the new
[1:56:06] Speaker 1: Pascal's Wager. Don't believe, just performed belief after life's uncertain conformity,
[1:56:12] Speaker 1: pays in trust, status, smiles, votes, donors, and silence. Yeah,
[1:56:17] Speaker 1: I agree. You know, I'm baffled by the amount of
[1:56:20] Speaker 1: Christians that think that Pascal's Wager is even remotely persuasive.
[1:56:27] Speaker 1: It's just certainly not you, as zoo. Thank you for
[1:56:30] Speaker 1: the two hundred enng N says, thank you for your donation. Well,
[1:56:33] Speaker 1: thank you for your donation. Friend, and Astronova, great to
[1:56:36] Speaker 1: see you tonight. Thank you for the ten dollars. Supertesta's
[1:56:39] Speaker 1: vertical may have sixty two thousand subs well members, not
[1:56:43] Speaker 1: just subs members, way more members, but only has seven
[1:56:47] Speaker 1: hundred and fifty viewers right now the horizontal has fifteen
[1:56:50] Speaker 1: hundred viewers. I'd say this is evidence that the verts
[1:56:53] Speaker 1: are now living by the holy spirit of dog. Well,
[1:56:56] Speaker 1: we have to wait and find out if the memberships
[1:56:58] Speaker 1: catch up, we'll see the dates of delirium. Thank you
[1:57:01] Speaker 1: for the ten hour supertests. Vertical streaming was the original
[1:57:04] Speaker 1: DZ stream and vastly superior. All others. Bow down to
[1:57:09] Speaker 1: your vertical overlords. The war rages on. And Nikosi, thank
[1:57:15] Speaker 1: you for the ten hour Supertestsys do an experiment of
[1:57:18] Speaker 1: day and night without the sun and then I'll be convinced.
[1:57:21] Speaker 1: Big ups to all yardy in the chat. I agree, right,
[1:57:26] Speaker 1: Show me how in the world you can have day
[1:57:28] Speaker 1: and night before the creation of the sun, because Genesis
[1:57:31] Speaker 1: doesn't know it has day and night existing prior to
[1:57:34] Speaker 1: the creation of the sun. On Day four and Jake,
[1:57:37] Speaker 1: good to see a friend. Thank you for the sixty
[1:57:38] Speaker 1: one six as Christians say, God is the unmoved mover.
[1:57:41] Speaker 1: Rocks don't move. Checkmate Doug's win. Doug wins a million percent.
[1:57:46] Speaker 1: Doug is the unmoved mover. Doug doesn't move. He he
[1:57:50] Speaker 1: doesn't move until something acts upon him. But nothing acts
[1:57:53] Speaker 1: upon him because everything operates under Doug's will and gig
[1:57:57] Speaker 1: a chiedneezer amazing name. Thank you for the ten hour supertest,
[1:58:01] Speaker 1: says Victory Monday. Here we go, Brownies, here we go. Yeah,
[1:58:04] Speaker 1: the Browns finally pulled one off. Friends. I don't know
[1:58:06] Speaker 1: if anyone was paying attention this weekend. The Browns finally
[1:58:09] Speaker 1: won a game and Astronova coming in again. Thank you
[1:58:12] Speaker 1: so much. As I just had a revelation from Doug.
[1:58:14] Speaker 1: Doug no longer supports the verts. Horizontal is the only
[1:58:17] Speaker 1: way Doug wouldn't say that, false prophet. I still love you, Astronova.
[1:58:21] Speaker 1: And last one for now from our friend Matt Doherty,
[1:58:24] Speaker 1: thank you for the twenty hour supertest, says Let all
[1:58:26] Speaker 1: the followers of Doug remember that while Magma erupts vertically
[1:58:30] Speaker 1: and then spreads Doug's message across the land horizontally, may
[1:58:34] Speaker 1: we all be unified by the mastery of his strata. Yes, yes,
[1:58:39] Speaker 1: the strata laid out. The ground that we that we
[1:58:43] Speaker 1: are on was laid out through a process that required
[1:58:47] Speaker 1: both vertical and horizontal dougism. That's all there is to it.
[1:58:52] Speaker 5: All.
[1:58:52] Speaker 1: Right, let's grab our next guest. We're gonna get link
[1:58:54] Speaker 1: from our YouTube queue. Surprisingly shallow depth of guests on
[1:59:00] Speaker 1: the TikTok q tonight. Usually we have a ton of
[1:59:01] Speaker 1: TikTok guests waiting to get in. They're all on YouTube tonight.
[1:59:05] Speaker 1: If you're watching on YouTube and you want to know
[1:59:06] Speaker 1: how to get in, the links on the screen tiny
[1:59:08] Speaker 1: dot cc ford slash dz guest. If you're watching on TikTok,
[1:59:12] Speaker 1: all you gotta do is hit that guest request button
[1:59:15] Speaker 1: and you'll be in cue link Welcome in. Are you
[1:59:18] Speaker 1: at least eighteen and do you believe in God?
[1:59:21] Speaker 5: Yo?
[1:59:22] Speaker 10: What is up? Brother? I am at least eighteen and
[1:59:24] Speaker 10: I do believe in the God of the Bible. Yes,
[1:59:26] Speaker 10: sir cool.
[1:59:28] Speaker 1: What'd be the most convincing evidence or argument for the
[1:59:31] Speaker 1: bubble God being real?
[1:59:34] Speaker 10: So what I'll do is I'll address some of your
[1:59:36] Speaker 10: points and then that you made or I don't know
[1:59:39] Speaker 10: if one of them was a super chat, but a
[1:59:41] Speaker 10: few of them were other points, and then we'll get
[1:59:43] Speaker 10: to that.
[1:59:44] Speaker 1: If that's okay, you want to address the superchats, I'd
[1:59:48] Speaker 1: rather not. I'd rather you just give me the argument
[1:59:50] Speaker 1: for your god.
[1:59:51] Speaker 10: Was the sun and Moon thing a super chat? Yeah, okay, okay, okay,
[1:59:57] Speaker 10: I won't talk about that then? And then was the
[1:59:59] Speaker 10: John ten thing super chat?
[2:00:01] Speaker 2: No?
[2:00:01] Speaker 3: That was just was me.
[2:00:03] Speaker 10: Okay, do you want me to talk about that a
[2:00:05] Speaker 10: little or no?
[2:00:06] Speaker 1: No, we don't. We don't really care about that. We're
[2:00:08] Speaker 1: here for debates.
[2:00:10] Speaker 10: Well, I know I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you I
[2:00:12] Speaker 10: would those are points that you guys did not really
[2:00:15] Speaker 10: explore all the way and they were unfounded.
[2:00:17] Speaker 1: And yeah, don't really care. Give me the argument for
[2:00:19] Speaker 1: why your god's real?
[2:00:21] Speaker 10: Okay, okay, So let's look at Romans one starting in
[2:00:24] Speaker 10: verse eighteen.
[2:00:25] Speaker 1: Oh boy, you think this is gonna go well from
[2:00:27] Speaker 1: Romans one no one, no one without excuse?
[2:00:31] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[2:00:31] Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, but it's not it is that.
[2:00:35] Speaker 2: Are you gonna be able to substantiate why we should
[2:00:37] Speaker 2: care about Paul.
[2:00:38] Speaker 1: Thinks I can't wait. Well, I'll put the passage on
[2:00:42] Speaker 1: the board. Although everyone knows this one by heart. I
[2:00:45] Speaker 1: don't even think. I have no idea why people bring
[2:00:48] Speaker 1: this passage up like it means anything. For the wrath
[2:00:51] Speaker 1: of God is revealed from heaven against all ungoliness and
[2:00:54] Speaker 1: injustice of those who, by their injustice, suppressed the truth.
[2:00:58] Speaker 1: So you think that we actually know the truth suppressing
[2:01:01] Speaker 1: the truth and unrighteousness.
[2:01:03] Speaker 10: Okay, so hold on a minute, brother, I understand we're
[2:01:06] Speaker 10: having a debate, but I tried to bring up some
[2:01:08] Speaker 10: points you already rejected those. Can I bring up my
[2:01:10] Speaker 10: point or would you like to railroad me?
[2:01:12] Speaker 1: No? No, I'm asking you what your point is with
[2:01:14] Speaker 1: this passage.
[2:01:15] Speaker 10: Yes, I know, but you asked me a question before
[2:01:17] Speaker 10: I could pose it to you. If that makes sense,
[2:01:19] Speaker 10: So can I say it?
[2:01:21] Speaker 11: Oh?
[2:01:22] Speaker 1: I mean if you want to, yeah, you can die
[2:01:23] Speaker 1: my question.
[2:01:24] Speaker 2: Go ahead.
[2:01:25] Speaker 10: So what we're looking at right here is it says
[2:01:30] Speaker 10: because what may be known of God, so known of
[2:01:32] Speaker 10: who it's God? Right, this is the God of the
[2:01:35] Speaker 10: Bible is manifest to them. For God has shown it
[2:01:37] Speaker 10: to them. But how is he going to show it
[2:01:39] Speaker 10: to them? For since the creation of the world, his
[2:01:42] Speaker 10: invisible attributes are clearly seen being understood by the things
[2:01:47] Speaker 10: that are made, even his eternal power in Godhead, so
[2:01:50] Speaker 10: that they are without excuse. So what this is trying
[2:01:54] Speaker 10: to say is Paul's not appealing to his own authority. Uh,
[2:01:59] Speaker 10: Paul is not to his own authority in this In
[2:02:02] Speaker 10: this verse, what he's appealing to is the fact that
[2:02:06] Speaker 10: when humans look at the creation of the world and
[2:02:08] Speaker 10: go outside every day, see a sunset, see a sunrise.
[2:02:11] Speaker 10: Paul says, that inspires in you a feeling that supports
[2:02:16] Speaker 10: the idea that there is a divine God's.
[2:02:19] Speaker 1: Yeahaul's wrong that your opinion, man.
[2:02:24] Speaker 10: So hold on, hold on, So Paul's wrong. I need
[2:02:28] Speaker 10: back that up, right, because if you're asking guests to
[2:02:30] Speaker 10: back up there.
[2:02:31] Speaker 1: So you'll you'll have to substantiate that Paul's claim about
[2:02:34] Speaker 1: God is correct. So you have to establish God existing
[2:02:38] Speaker 1: rather than begging the question.
[2:02:40] Speaker 10: Because it's not Paul's claim. Anyone can do that.
[2:02:42] Speaker 1: I'm sorry, did Paul write this?
[2:02:45] Speaker 10: Paul wrote this? But what so?
[2:02:47] Speaker 1: Why do I care what Paul says?
[2:02:49] Speaker 10: Because what if I told you, man, when I brush
[2:02:51] Speaker 10: my teeth, my teeth get clean. Does that make me
[2:02:54] Speaker 10: the claimer of that? Or can everyone just brush their teeth?
[2:02:58] Speaker 6: Yeah?
[2:02:58] Speaker 1: If you say, when I brush my teeth, God holds
[2:03:01] Speaker 1: my toothbrush. I would say, you need to demonstrate God
[2:03:03] Speaker 1: exists before I believe he's holding your toothbrush.
[2:03:06] Speaker 10: So hold on, let's take it. So we're going, we're
[2:03:08] Speaker 10: going fast.
[2:03:09] Speaker 11: Right.
[2:03:09] Speaker 10: What we need to do is we need to break
[2:03:10] Speaker 10: this text.
[2:03:11] Speaker 1: I think this is fast.
[2:03:13] Speaker 10: We need to break this text down because you're trying
[2:03:15] Speaker 10: to railroad me and say, well, Paul.
[2:03:19] Speaker 1: How about railroad you. I'd ask you for a simple request,
[2:03:22] Speaker 1: which is why should I care? Give me a reason
[2:03:25] Speaker 1: why I should care what Paul says about God.
[2:03:28] Speaker 10: The reason you should care what Paul says about God
[2:03:30] Speaker 10: is because believing in this God or not is an
[2:03:33] Speaker 10: eternal decision, not just the internal one.
[2:03:36] Speaker 1: I don't believe in it, even though about the every
[2:03:39] Speaker 1: other God, every other God has so called eternal consequences
[2:03:44] Speaker 1: as well. That has nothing to do with what they exist.
[2:03:46] Speaker 10: And so so let me let me give you a
[2:03:48] Speaker 10: little bit of a little bit of insight. Right, So,
[2:03:52] Speaker 10: in a lot of other religions, Buddhism, you know, Hinduism,
[2:03:57] Speaker 10: even even in the Muslim religion, which is a verily
[2:04:00] Speaker 10: similar to the God of the Bible. Right, we're seeing
[2:04:03] Speaker 10: this thing where no matter what choice you make, everything
[2:04:08] Speaker 10: is gonna lead to a state of nirvana or heaven.
[2:04:10] Speaker 10: Even the Muslims believe that eventually everyone gets to heaven
[2:04:13] Speaker 10: in buddhim In Buddhism, eventually everyone gets to heaven. In Hinduism,
[2:04:17] Speaker 10: eventually everyone gets heaven. But in Christianity, this religion is
[2:04:20] Speaker 10: the only religion that is going to teach you that
[2:04:23] Speaker 10: it is appointed once for a man to live, and
[2:04:26] Speaker 10: then you must be judged. There is no story.
[2:04:28] Speaker 1: It's literally in like five other religions this and it
[2:04:31] Speaker 1: is meaningless. Even if it was unique, it doesn't mean
[2:04:34] Speaker 1: that the religion is true. So what you need to
[2:04:35] Speaker 1: establish is that it's true, not that it has differences
[2:04:39] Speaker 1: from other religions.
[2:04:43] Speaker 10: If we're looking for just a an evidence that I
[2:04:47] Speaker 10: can throw up on the board in the same way
[2:04:50] Speaker 10: that you cannot prove to me that God.
[2:04:53] Speaker 1: Is faith, I can I can prove that your God
[2:04:55] Speaker 1: is Okay, So, okay, I'm ready fantastic. Is the Bible
[2:04:59] Speaker 1: true in my opinion, Yes, it's is Jesus God.
[2:05:04] Speaker 10: Jesus is God.
[2:05:06] Speaker 1: Can God tell a lie?
[2:05:08] Speaker 10: God cannot tell a lie?
[2:05:09] Speaker 1: No, Okay, that means Jesus couldn't tell a lie, right,
[2:05:12] Speaker 1: that's correct. Okay, have you read John chapter three?
[2:05:16] Speaker 10: Let's turn to John chapter three. See, so look at
[2:05:20] Speaker 10: what's about to happen, right, you're bringing up a verse
[2:05:22] Speaker 10: to me. I'm gonna let you explain it before I
[2:05:24] Speaker 10: decide to throw in my own commentary about it.
[2:05:28] Speaker 1: I love it.
[2:05:32] Speaker 10: And by the way, bro, I want to let you
[2:05:33] Speaker 10: know I love debating and I am I want to
[2:05:35] Speaker 10: be like respectful of you. So if you do not
[2:05:37] Speaker 10: like the jesting, let me know because I will stop.
[2:05:39] Speaker 10: You know what I mean, Like, I'm not I don't
[2:05:40] Speaker 10: want to be rude at all.
[2:05:44] Speaker 1: We're not worried about that.
[2:05:46] Speaker 10: It is just a jest, trust me, brother, because I
[2:05:48] Speaker 10: love pursuing the truth and I love that you're out
[2:05:49] Speaker 10: here doing this. You know what I mean for real?
[2:05:52] Speaker 2: Right?
[2:05:52] Speaker 1: Okay, So let me get the passage for you real quick.
[2:05:55] Speaker 1: I apologize. I I usually uh have it up at
[2:05:59] Speaker 1: John three thirteen is where we're going. Let me get
[2:06:02] Speaker 1: it on the screen.
[2:06:04] Speaker 2: I'm gonna pull up the other passage I know you're
[2:06:07] Speaker 2: going to reference, just so I can in case the
[2:06:09] Speaker 2: Hebrew needs to get brought up.
[2:06:11] Speaker 1: John three thirteen Jesus says, no one has ascended into
[2:06:15] Speaker 1: heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the son
[2:06:18] Speaker 1: of Man. Right, what's that meaning?
[2:06:23] Speaker 10: It's hard to say, right, because that word ascended. Can
[2:06:27] Speaker 10: we look Do you have the Blue Letter Bible in
[2:06:28] Speaker 10: front of you? That way we can look at it
[2:06:30] Speaker 10: in the Greek because I don't know what the I
[2:06:33] Speaker 10: don't know what the word ascended means.
[2:06:34] Speaker 1: Do you think the word ascend is difficult for me?
[2:06:38] Speaker 10: Yes, because we need to look at it in the
[2:06:40] Speaker 10: because that's when it was originally written in the Greek.
[2:06:43] Speaker 1: So in order to really are you fluent in Greek?
[2:06:47] Speaker 10: I'm not fluent in Greek. No, but if you look
[2:06:48] Speaker 10: up blue Letter Bible, I.
[2:06:50] Speaker 1: Know I have Greek like Forgottens. I'm asking you, if
[2:06:53] Speaker 1: you're not fluent in Greek, why is looking it up
[2:06:55] Speaker 1: in Greek? And to help you? You think the guy with
[2:06:56] Speaker 1: the PhD translated it wrong?
[2:07:00] Speaker 10: No, I'm not saying that. But for example, so there's
[2:07:02] Speaker 10: another passage right where it says we're in the Bible.
[2:07:05] Speaker 10: You could call this a contradition. It says if you
[2:07:08] Speaker 10: you know, basically walk in the spirit, right, your adversaries
[2:07:11] Speaker 10: are gonna be at peace with you, and that's you
[2:07:13] Speaker 10: could say, oh well, I'm I would I could say,
[2:07:16] Speaker 10: oh well, I'm a true Christian and I walk in
[2:07:18] Speaker 10: the spirit, but for some reason I still have enemies
[2:07:20] Speaker 10: and they're not at peace with me. Does that mean
[2:07:21] Speaker 10: God is a liar? No, because when we actually go
[2:07:24] Speaker 10: to the Hebrew, because it's in Proverbs, it shows you
[2:07:27] Speaker 10: that that word be at peace means just like a
[2:07:30] Speaker 10: a a balancing of the scales. It doesn't mean literal peace.
[2:07:34] Speaker 10: So looking up this word in the Greek is going
[2:07:37] Speaker 10: to help us.
[2:07:38] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[2:07:38] Speaker 1: It's anomba bacon. Okay, it's the it's the cognent to
[2:07:43] Speaker 1: a law in Hebrew to ascend.
[2:07:46] Speaker 10: Okay, okay, so it's just to go okay, to.
[2:07:49] Speaker 1: Go up in heaven, go upen to heaven.
[2:07:51] Speaker 2: That's it.
[2:07:51] Speaker 1: That's what he's saying. That's what ascend means. Believe it
[2:07:55] Speaker 1: or not. The guy with the PhD figured this one out. Okay.
[2:07:58] Speaker 1: So it says no one has ascended into heaven except
[2:08:00] Speaker 1: for the one who descended from heaven. Is that a
[2:08:02] Speaker 1: true statement?
[2:08:04] Speaker 10: Yes, I would take that as a true statement.
[2:08:06] Speaker 1: Oh okay, have you read Second Kings, So.
[2:08:11] Speaker 10: Who's descending in Second kings.
[2:08:12] Speaker 5: Let's go see.
[2:08:14] Speaker 10: You don't know, I know, I don't know every word
[2:08:17] Speaker 10: of the Bible by heart.
[2:08:18] Speaker 2: No, that's why this is like a but this is
[2:08:21] Speaker 2: like a big story, like everyone knows this guy.
[2:08:33] Speaker 1: Mm hm you know Elijah and the Fiery Chariot.
[2:08:37] Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So it says he ascended right there.
[2:08:40] Speaker 10: So is it the same word?
[2:08:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's it's Hebrew.
[2:08:45] Speaker 10: Yeah, but that's what I think. So now it's so
[2:08:47] Speaker 10: it's not as Hebrew, right, So if you want to realize,
[2:08:50] Speaker 10: and this is probably gonna sound like a top out, but.
[2:08:53] Speaker 1: I know Hebrew.
[2:08:55] Speaker 10: No I don't know.
[2:08:56] Speaker 1: Okay, you don't know Hebrew or Greek, but you want
[2:08:58] Speaker 1: to make arguments based on Hebrew? Just so you know,
[2:09:00] Speaker 1: Dalton and I learned Hebrew and Greek.
[2:09:03] Speaker 5: What was the uh?
[2:09:05] Speaker 2: Just a reminder, what was the Greek word used in
[2:09:08] Speaker 2: John three?
[2:09:09] Speaker 1: An a aa bacon?
[2:09:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, so a variant of it is using this to
[2:09:13] Speaker 2: agent when it gets translated.
[2:09:16] Speaker 10: So it's the same you're saying.
[2:09:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So.
[2:09:21] Speaker 10: Let me see. So if we go to John three,
[2:09:25] Speaker 10: is he talking about Elijah or no? It doesn't say so.
[2:09:28] Speaker 10: It said no one has ascended, but the one who
[2:09:30] Speaker 10: has descended.
[2:09:31] Speaker 1: No one has ascended except for Jesus.
[2:09:35] Speaker 10: Did he Is he referring to himself or is he
[2:09:38] Speaker 10: referring to Elijah.
[2:09:39] Speaker 1: Referring to himself?
[2:09:41] Speaker 2: No one has ascended to him except he who just
[2:09:43] Speaker 2: said for him and the son of Man that some
[2:09:45] Speaker 2: a man is Jesus.
[2:09:48] Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, honestly, I don't know. You know what
[2:09:50] Speaker 10: I mean. I'm sure there's a million ways, uh to
[2:09:53] Speaker 10: explain it, you know what I mean. Have you have
[2:09:55] Speaker 10: you had anyone try to explain this to you before?
[2:09:58] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[2:09:58] Speaker 1: None of them are good explanation, which is why I
[2:10:00] Speaker 1: still turn to it.
[2:10:02] Speaker 10: Okay, Yeah, to be honest, Bro's it's very interesting because
[2:10:06] Speaker 10: so in my Bible that I have all my Bibles, like,
[2:10:09] Speaker 10: I have Bibles from different scholars, right, and so in
[2:10:13] Speaker 10: this one in front of me, of course, it does
[2:10:15] Speaker 10: not have an explanation, which but so yeah, I know that,
[2:10:20] Speaker 10: and that's interesting because I don't know. But like I said, so,
[2:10:23] Speaker 10: I'm studying the word and everything, right, So I'm not
[2:10:26] Speaker 10: a scholar like the scholars that have written these study
[2:10:28] Speaker 10: Bibles and everything like this. And my evidence is so
[2:10:32] Speaker 10: let me ask you, right, I'm admitting to you that
[2:10:36] Speaker 10: I don't know how to reconcile these passages. But when
[2:10:39] Speaker 10: I brought up Romans one and said, hey, the personal
[2:10:42] Speaker 10: feeling that I get corresponds with this passage and it
[2:10:46] Speaker 10: speaks to me, you just say, well, it's not credible.
[2:10:50] Speaker 1: Your personal experience is relevant. My personal experience disagrees with yours,
[2:10:54] Speaker 1: so they're they're useless.
[2:10:56] Speaker 2: Yeah, my personal experience that actually actually demonstrates that Paul
[2:10:59] Speaker 2: was wrong, because because I don't look into heaven and
[2:11:02] Speaker 2: automatically see like God's invisible attributes, it's not immediately obvious
[2:11:06] Speaker 2: to me whatsoever.
[2:11:09] Speaker 10: That's true. But when you read that verse, there's already
[2:11:11] Speaker 10: a rebuttal for that, and I don't know you know
[2:11:13] Speaker 10: what I mean. So it's like, when we read this verse,
[2:11:16] Speaker 10: I would have to come to the conclusion that you're lying.
[2:11:18] Speaker 10: You know what I mean, And this is not I'm not.
[2:11:20] Speaker 1: Trying to So you're a mind reader. Now, your your
[2:11:22] Speaker 1: argument relies on you reading our minds. Now, okay, well
[2:11:25] Speaker 1: I believe you're lying. Link I think you're lying. Proved
[2:11:28] Speaker 1: me wrong, that's okay.
[2:11:31] Speaker 2: I'm telling you.
[2:11:33] Speaker 1: See how bad of an argument, See how bad of
[2:11:34] Speaker 1: an argument is you're lying that's never a good argument.
[2:11:38] Speaker 10: I'm not well. But the thing is, bro it goes
[2:11:40] Speaker 10: deeper than that. Right, you're not.
[2:11:42] Speaker 1: Lying, it doesn't. Why should Why should we believe that
[2:11:46] Speaker 1: the Bible is true when it repeatedly says things that
[2:11:48] Speaker 1: are not true, Like it says that Jesus and Messiah
[2:11:50] Speaker 1: despite the fact that he didn't fulfill a single.
[2:11:52] Speaker 10: Prophisey, okay, so that I actually can refuse because I
[2:11:58] Speaker 10: can prophet.
[2:12:00] Speaker 1: I'd love for you to try. I would love for
[2:12:02] Speaker 1: you to try.
[2:12:04] Speaker 10: Oh, can we look back in the Old Testament? In
[2:12:06] Speaker 10: me a second. It's in some minor profits and I
[2:12:09] Speaker 10: will look at it. But I'll give you an easy
[2:12:12] Speaker 10: one that Jesus does.
[2:12:13] Speaker 1: Sure, I'd love to hear about it.
[2:12:16] Speaker 10: Okay, okay, give me one second in the in my
[2:12:17] Speaker 10: minor prophets here, I was just reading about it, and uh, but.
[2:12:21] Speaker 1: If you're in the minor prophets, you probably want to
[2:12:23] Speaker 1: go to Micah five if I'm guessing.
[2:12:26] Speaker 10: Yeah, so born in Bethlehem, right is where we're going.
[2:12:29] Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I didn't say anything about being born.
[2:12:34] Speaker 10: It says he's coming out of there though, right, not.
[2:12:37] Speaker 1: Not quite now? Yeah, I know, listen, we can we
[2:12:43] Speaker 1: can do it if you Yeah, we can do it
[2:12:44] Speaker 1: if you want. Yeah, Micah five. I really enjoy Micah five. Actually,
[2:12:49] Speaker 1: so I'll put it back on the screen. So Micah
[2:12:54] Speaker 1: five specifically two, it says, but you owe Bethlehem of
[2:12:58] Speaker 1: a frata. What is the line Bethlehem of a Pratha
[2:13:01] Speaker 1: mean to you?
[2:13:04] Speaker 10: Explain it to me, because honestly, I don't know.
[2:13:06] Speaker 1: These are the eldest ancestors of King David. This is
[2:13:09] Speaker 1: actually referring to a lineage, not a birthplace. And it
[2:13:13] Speaker 1: says Bethlehem.
[2:13:15] Speaker 10: Hold on, So let's take that point right. I have
[2:13:17] Speaker 10: no problem with that.
[2:13:18] Speaker 1: I know.
[2:13:19] Speaker 10: If it refers to a lineage in the birthplace, then
[2:13:21] Speaker 10: you just kind of would prove the claim because Jesus
[2:13:24] Speaker 10: comes from the lineage of David.
[2:13:25] Speaker 1: Well he doesn't. We'll get there. Next says, but you
[2:13:28] Speaker 1: o Bethlehem of a Pratha, who are of the little
[2:13:31] Speaker 1: clans of Judah? From you shall come forth for me
[2:13:34] Speaker 1: one who is the rule in Israel whose origin is
[2:13:36] Speaker 1: from old from ancient days, So that the ancient days
[2:13:40] Speaker 1: is the days of Bethlehem and a Pratha the ancient
[2:13:42] Speaker 1: lineage of David. So okay, can you show me a
[2:13:46] Speaker 1: single passage where Jesus ruled in Israel.
[2:13:50] Speaker 10: Okay, so I don't believe that we have the correct
[2:13:52] Speaker 10: understanding there. So who's goings forth are from old, from everlasting?
[2:13:57] Speaker 10: And so I believe what it's saying is that Jesus
[2:14:00] Speaker 10: nature is eternal. That's what that verse is trying to claim. Yes,
[2:14:06] Speaker 10: it is. Every biblical biblical.
[2:14:09] Speaker 1: Every biblical scholar name one. Name a single biblical scholar
[2:14:14] Speaker 1: that's talking about Michael five before name one.
[2:14:17] Speaker 10: This is a common understanding of the town name one.
[2:14:20] Speaker 10: It's not, dude, every Christian ever.
[2:14:24] Speaker 1: This isn't no do you be wrong?
[2:14:26] Speaker 10: Yeah?
[2:14:27] Speaker 1: Do you be wrong? Commonlike unlike you link. I actually
[2:14:30] Speaker 1: studied with the scholars. I actually bothered to go to school.
[2:14:34] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[2:14:35] Speaker 2: Sol Olam doesn't always mean eternity. We see examples like,
[2:14:40] Speaker 2: for example, in Deuteronomy thirty two, where Moses says, remember
[2:14:43] Speaker 2: the days of old, considered the years of many generations,
[2:14:47] Speaker 2: Zi cordia mot olam. Olam here doesn't mean eternity. It
[2:14:50] Speaker 2: just means ancient days.
[2:14:52] Speaker 10: Sorry, tell me what you're saying. I did not mean
[2:14:55] Speaker 10: to interrupt you. I got I got a.
[2:14:59] Speaker 2: Go. Yeah. Olam doesn't always mean eternity. It could just
[2:15:02] Speaker 2: refer to ancient times. For example, in Deuteronomy thirty two,
[2:15:05] Speaker 2: verse seven, Moses sayst Islam, remember the days of old.
[2:15:13] Speaker 10: Okay. So the last word in my ESV translation is
[2:15:17] Speaker 10: ever lasting, No everlasting last okay.
[2:15:22] Speaker 1: Olam has a semantic ring. There's no actual there's no
[2:15:27] Speaker 1: actual reason to translate or Alam as everlasting.
[2:15:33] Speaker 10: Okay. So let me tell you something. Right, we're looking
[2:15:36] Speaker 10: at this definition of ascend and ascend and look at this.
[2:15:38] Speaker 10: How we can say, oh, do you think the Hebrew
[2:15:40] Speaker 10: writer got it wrong? But now I'm trying to tell
[2:15:43] Speaker 10: you that my Bible says everlasting, And now all of
[2:15:45] Speaker 10: a sudden, words don't mean anything anymore.
[2:15:48] Speaker 1: No, I'm disagreeing with your translation with my translation on
[2:15:51] Speaker 1: the board. My translation on the board is what I'm agreeing.
[2:15:55] Speaker 10: With ancient days.
[2:15:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, ancient days, yep.
[2:16:01] Speaker 10: Is what's replacing everlasting. So can we pull this up
[2:16:05] Speaker 10: in the Bible? Ancient days? What it's what it's referring to.
[2:16:08] Speaker 2: In the Maya may olam.
[2:16:13] Speaker 10: And it's but it's one of the uses everlasting.
[2:16:17] Speaker 1: Not when you're a parent with the uh with the
[2:16:20] Speaker 1: word that comes with it. So from from everlasting is
[2:16:26] Speaker 1: a meaningless statement. This is a reference to the past. No, dude,
[2:16:31] Speaker 1: see that, Yeah, dude, from from from the the days
[2:16:36] Speaker 1: from past. So hold on, you're talking way too much
[2:16:39] Speaker 1: like cane where it's you're talking way too much and
[2:16:44] Speaker 1: you're not listening. I'm going to show you how Hebrew works.
[2:16:46] Speaker 1: So stop talking for five seconds. This word here, this
[2:16:51] Speaker 1: is a phrase. Do you understand that this is a phrase.
[2:16:55] Speaker 1: These words work together? Okay, okay, you're.
[2:17:00] Speaker 10: Saying the context of the word. The context of the
[2:17:03] Speaker 10: word lets us know that.
[2:17:04] Speaker 1: It doesn't know the instruction.
[2:17:07] Speaker 4: Of the word.
[2:17:08] Speaker 2: That there might be a second. Go ahead, in his
[2:17:11] Speaker 2: in his Bible, we could have him turned to Amos
[2:17:14] Speaker 2: nine eleven and show that even in his translation it
[2:17:19] Speaker 2: uses it actually translates a similar phrase in the in
[2:17:22] Speaker 2: the very same way. Link. How what does it say
[2:17:25] Speaker 2: in Amos signe eleven, which is a passage which is
[2:17:27] Speaker 2: quoted a lot in the New Testament, How is it
[2:17:29] Speaker 2: translated in your Bible?
[2:17:32] Speaker 10: Let's look Amos nine to eleven, right is where returning?
[2:17:35] Speaker 2: Yep, it should be easy to remember. Everybody that's crazy,
[2:17:41] Speaker 2: never forget, never forget Amos ninne.
[2:17:43] Speaker 10: Eleven, neverget never forget amos. That's why. Okay, on that day,
[2:17:49] Speaker 10: I will raise up the Tabernacle of David, which has
[2:17:52] Speaker 10: fallen down, and repair its damages. I will raise up
[2:17:54] Speaker 10: his ruins and rebuild it as in the days of old?
[2:17:58] Speaker 2: What is days of Old?
[2:17:59] Speaker 10: And it's the same. So is it the same as
[2:18:04] Speaker 10: Zach Fraser?
[2:18:04] Speaker 5: No?
[2:18:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, kygo mal.
[2:18:10] Speaker 10: So why so? So ask me this, Why do these
[2:18:13] Speaker 10: different translators embellish like that?
[2:18:16] Speaker 1: Because the ESV has an agenda. The ESV wants every
[2:18:22] Speaker 1: passage that you think is about Jesus to sound like Jesus.
[2:18:26] Speaker 1: That's why actual scholars, like real good scholars, don't use
[2:18:30] Speaker 1: the ESV. Only people in like the Reformed movement will
[2:18:34] Speaker 1: recommend it in the es V almost universally. If you
[2:18:37] Speaker 1: go to a Bible college or a seminary, they're going
[2:18:39] Speaker 1: to have you pick up an RSV.
[2:18:43] Speaker 10: I don't understand, because so I understand what you're saying,
[2:18:46] Speaker 10: and I'm not going to refute you. It's it's just
[2:18:48] Speaker 10: weird because my church is not Reformed and yet we
[2:18:52] Speaker 10: recommend ESV. So I don't understand. Yeah, I don't understand why,
[2:18:56] Speaker 10: but we're not.
[2:18:57] Speaker 1: I never said that. I never said that the as
[2:19:00] Speaker 1: He was only used in reform circles. It just happens
[2:19:02] Speaker 1: to be the Bible of choice for most people in
[2:19:05] Speaker 1: reform circles. So the reality is in Micah, there's no
[2:19:10] Speaker 1: reason to believe that Mike is talking about somebody who's eternal.
[2:19:16] Speaker 1: It's also true that Jesus never ruled in Israel, and
[2:19:20] Speaker 1: he's also not from the line of Judah.
[2:19:23] Speaker 10: He's from the line of David, though.
[2:19:25] Speaker 1: He's certainly not but addressed the fact that he didn't
[2:19:27] Speaker 1: rule in Israel. Then we'll show you how he's not
[2:19:29] Speaker 1: from the line of David.
[2:19:31] Speaker 10: Okay, so you see how it says, oh, one to
[2:19:34] Speaker 10: be ruler in Israel?
[2:19:36] Speaker 1: One who is to rule in Israel?
[2:19:39] Speaker 4: Ye yep.
[2:19:40] Speaker 10: So I'll tell you that's not for his first coming,
[2:19:42] Speaker 10: that's for a second coming.
[2:19:43] Speaker 1: Why would we believe that he's yet two comings?
[2:19:47] Speaker 10: Because well, if we're well, brother, let me lay it
[2:19:49] Speaker 10: out to you like this. If we're not going to
[2:19:50] Speaker 10: take the Bible out his word, then why no.
[2:19:53] Speaker 1: If I'm if I'm a Jew, why would I believe
[2:19:55] Speaker 1: that the Massa is coming twice? If I believe that
[2:19:59] Speaker 1: the New Testament said, I'd be a Christian.
[2:20:01] Speaker 10: I think you're confused, right if we read the Book
[2:20:04] Speaker 10: of Revelations, but we can know it's.
[2:20:06] Speaker 1: True, I mean it's not. No, there is a claim,
[2:20:08] Speaker 1: not a truth. Revelation hasn't happened until revelation happens. It's
[2:20:12] Speaker 1: not true. Again, if I believe you can use no
[2:20:20] Speaker 1: one heard anything anyone just said right now, because we
[2:20:22] Speaker 1: all spoke at once. If we believe that the New
[2:20:24] Speaker 1: Testament was true, we would be Christians. We don't believe
[2:20:27] Speaker 1: it's true. We're demonstrating why it's not true right now.
[2:20:31] Speaker 10: I understand what you're saying, but I'm saying this person.
[2:20:35] Speaker 10: But so if we look at Micah, we would have
[2:20:38] Speaker 10: to assume that Micah, if he had access to the
[2:20:41] Speaker 10: Book of Revelation, would believe it because.
[2:20:43] Speaker 1: It comes from his He he didn't have access to
[2:20:45] Speaker 1: the Book of Revelation, and revelation is alive.
[2:20:49] Speaker 10: I said if he did. I didn't say he had
[2:20:51] Speaker 10: access to it. I said, if he did have access
[2:20:53] Speaker 10: to the Book of Revelation, he would have interpreted it
[2:20:55] Speaker 10: as a truth.
[2:20:57] Speaker 1: Well, he wouldn't have. The Jews rejected Christianity for a reason.
[2:21:01] Speaker 1: So again, you have to demonstrate the New Testament's true
[2:21:04] Speaker 1: before you claim that it's true. So what in this
[2:21:07] Speaker 1: passage did he fulfill? Because it says there's going to
[2:21:09] Speaker 1: become a leader from the lineage of David, and that
[2:21:11] Speaker 1: leader is going to rule over Israel. When did Jesus
[2:21:13] Speaker 1: do that?
[2:21:16] Speaker 10: So he so he's not ruling in Israel yet, brother.
[2:21:19] Speaker 1: Okay, So to be clear, it didn't get fulfilled yet, then.
[2:21:22] Speaker 10: It is not fulfilled right now?
[2:21:23] Speaker 1: Okay, all right, then show me one that did get fulfilled.
[2:21:28] Speaker 10: I can't show you when it did get fulfilled, brother,
[2:21:30] Speaker 10: because it has not been fulfilled yet.
[2:21:32] Speaker 1: But this is not If it hasn't been fulfilled, then
[2:21:35] Speaker 1: it's not fulfilled. You can't count it as a fulfilled prophecy.
[2:21:37] Speaker 6: Then Okay.
[2:21:39] Speaker 10: If I tell you tomorrow is coming and then it happens,
[2:21:42] Speaker 10: it made my you know what I mean? Like it's
[2:21:46] Speaker 10: I don't understand what we're trying to grasp that here,
[2:21:49] Speaker 10: because it's pretty easy.
[2:21:50] Speaker 1: The text says something's going to happen. I'm asking did
[2:21:53] Speaker 1: it happen?
[2:21:55] Speaker 10: It did not happen yet, then it's.
[2:21:57] Speaker 1: Not a fulfilled prophecy. Okay, then find me one that
[2:21:59] Speaker 1: did get fulfilled.
[2:22:02] Speaker 10: So what are we thinking about verse three?
[2:22:04] Speaker 1: What about the verse three is even worse because it
[2:22:06] Speaker 1: leads to verse four. Okay, therefore they shall give him
[2:22:10] Speaker 1: up until the time when she who is in labor
[2:22:12] Speaker 1: has brought forth the rest of his kindred shall return
[2:22:15] Speaker 1: to the people of Israel. So this should have been
[2:22:18] Speaker 1: the returning of the people to Israel. And then it
[2:22:19] Speaker 1: says he shall stand and feed his flock in the
[2:22:21] Speaker 1: strength of the Lord and the majesty of the name
[2:22:24] Speaker 1: of Yahweh, his God. Yahweh is the name of this
[2:22:28] Speaker 1: person's god. Do you think that that Jesus has a god?
[2:22:35] Speaker 10: So I yes, I do, I do I being a Christian,
[2:22:40] Speaker 10: Jesus yields to the will of the Father. And so
[2:22:43] Speaker 10: if we want to phrase it that Jesus, you know, yeah,
[2:22:49] Speaker 10: I mean yes, I would say that's oh, that's okay.
[2:22:51] Speaker 1: To say that, it's not okay, Jesus didn't have a god.
[2:22:53] Speaker 1: If he is God, you can't be God and then
[2:22:56] Speaker 1: have a god.
[2:22:58] Speaker 5: But the thing.
[2:23:00] Speaker 10: You can, but it's not in the same way.
[2:23:03] Speaker 1: So there's two gods, there's there's two different persons in
[2:23:08] Speaker 1: like I'm gonna warn you, if you get buried in
[2:23:10] Speaker 1: the Trinity, you're gonna get cooked hard. You have to think.
[2:23:13] Speaker 1: I'm telling hold on, hold on link. You have to
[2:23:15] Speaker 1: think long and hard right now if you want to
[2:23:17] Speaker 1: get buried in the Trinity. Because I have this discussion
[2:23:20] Speaker 1: every time I go live. I've been doing it for
[2:23:21] Speaker 1: two years, and I can promise you like you're gonna
[2:23:24] Speaker 1: be in a trinity chokehold if you need even attempt it.
[2:23:27] Speaker 1: So do you want to stay on prophecies or do
[2:23:29] Speaker 1: you want to get cooked on trinity?
[2:23:31] Speaker 10: So no, but hold on a minute. So what I'll
[2:23:34] Speaker 10: tell you, So a lot of Christians are gonna have
[2:23:36] Speaker 10: different beliefs about the Trinity. But I'll put it to
[2:23:38] Speaker 10: you like this that according to the Bible, not according
[2:23:42] Speaker 10: to what the Christian masses believe. According to the Bible, God,
[2:23:46] Speaker 10: the Father, God, the Son who is Jesus, and the
[2:23:49] Speaker 10: Spirit share the same divine essence, but not the same person.
[2:23:53] Speaker 1: Well that's not in the Bible. But also no one cares.
[2:23:55] Speaker 1: The question is can a god have a God? It's
[2:23:58] Speaker 1: just yes or no?
[2:24:00] Speaker 10: Can worship? Can length?
[2:24:03] Speaker 1: I need a yes or no link? Can a god
[2:24:06] Speaker 1: have a God?
[2:24:08] Speaker 10: Jesus can be God? And all show.
[2:24:10] Speaker 1: Crazy that you can't say yes or no, I'm gonna
[2:24:12] Speaker 1: need a yes or no. Can a God? Have a God?
[2:24:16] Speaker 10: Define God? And then I'll say yes or no.
[2:24:18] Speaker 1: Definitively you define God. What do you think of God is?
[2:24:23] Speaker 10: I would say, in my opinion, God is just the
[2:24:27] Speaker 10: supreme being who is responsible for the creation of the
[2:24:30] Speaker 10: earth and he's yeah, way like you got it?
[2:24:32] Speaker 1: And how many are there?
[2:24:35] Speaker 10: There's one essence?
[2:24:36] Speaker 1: Oh, there's one God. Yeah, there's one God. Right, there's
[2:24:40] Speaker 1: one essence, but three Okay, there's one God.
[2:24:42] Speaker 4: Right.
[2:24:45] Speaker 10: I see what you're doing. Man, You're gonna say, well,
[2:24:47] Speaker 10: if there's one God, there can't be two gods.
[2:24:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm showing you how logical are Okay, so you're
[2:24:51] Speaker 1: gonna get You're gonna go into the trinity choke hold.
[2:24:53] Speaker 1: I warned you about this, and now this is what's
[2:24:55] Speaker 1: going to happen. I tried to prevent this from happening
[2:24:58] Speaker 1: out of, you know, reverence for your actual position on
[2:25:02] Speaker 1: the prophecies. I love it when they try to talk
[2:25:06] Speaker 1: over me and then they complain that I won't let
[2:25:08] Speaker 1: them speak, as if them speaking is me having to
[2:25:11] Speaker 1: let them talk over me. I'll never understand that. All Right,
[2:25:15] Speaker 1: we're gonna do just a logical syllogism real quick, and
[2:25:18] Speaker 1: I want you to follow along. We can we can
[2:25:20] Speaker 1: talk about each point. They're not difficult. Premise number one,
[2:25:24] Speaker 1: you can't be one hundred percent God unless you're identical
[2:25:26] Speaker 1: to God, true or false.
[2:25:30] Speaker 10: So hold on a minute, man, I will I will
[2:25:32] Speaker 10: answer you. I will answer you, But I'm asking you.
[2:25:34] Speaker 10: We have to define God because we're throwing this term
[2:25:36] Speaker 10: God around.
[2:25:37] Speaker 1: I already agreed with your definition. God is a supreme being.
[2:25:42] Speaker 10: He's a supreme being. Okay.
[2:25:43] Speaker 1: So then yes, there's and there's only God and there's
[2:25:46] Speaker 1: only one or there's many.
[2:25:50] Speaker 10: There is one God according to the.
[2:25:51] Speaker 1: Okay, so there's only one God. Okay. So Premise number one,
[2:25:55] Speaker 1: there's only one God. It says you can't be one
[2:25:58] Speaker 1: hundred percent God unless identical to God. Correct. Agree, okay, cool.
[2:26:05] Speaker 1: Premise number two is going to be just as easy
[2:26:09] Speaker 1: as the first one. To be identical to God, you
[2:26:12] Speaker 1: must have all of God's attributes.
[2:26:15] Speaker 10: Agree.
[2:26:16] Speaker 1: Agree? Oh yeah, we agree that.
[2:26:17] Speaker 2: Okay.
[2:26:18] Speaker 1: And then premise number three, and we could do a
[2:26:21] Speaker 1: fourth premise. I don't know if it's even necessary. Person
[2:26:24] Speaker 1: number three is Jesus lacks some of God's attributes of
[2:26:28] Speaker 1: course I don't agree with this one. Is Jesus omnipresent? Yes,
[2:26:33] Speaker 1: Jesus didn't have a physical presence on the earth.
[2:26:37] Speaker 10: Jesus did have a physical presence on the earth, but
[2:26:40] Speaker 10: he could in the same way.
[2:26:41] Speaker 1: Was that presence omnipresent?
[2:26:43] Speaker 10: His divine nature did not go away?
[2:26:45] Speaker 1: Was that presents omnipresence?
[2:26:48] Speaker 10: Okay, So do you see how you're not letting me
[2:26:49] Speaker 10: explain this because I'm going to give you a value.
[2:26:51] Speaker 1: I'm not letting you explain it because I'm waiting for
[2:26:53] Speaker 1: a yes or no. If you actually listen to my question,
[2:26:57] Speaker 1: you know that the answer is a yes, no, or maybe.
[2:26:59] Speaker 1: So I'll try again. Was Jesus omnipresent when he was
[2:27:03] Speaker 1: on the earth?
[2:27:04] Speaker 10: Could have been if he wanted to, Yes, he could
[2:27:06] Speaker 10: have been.
[2:27:06] Speaker 1: I didn't ask you if he if he could have been,
[2:27:08] Speaker 1: I asked it was he.
[2:27:12] Speaker 10: You're asking? Did his human form appear in more than
[2:27:15] Speaker 10: one place at once?
[2:27:16] Speaker 1: Yeah? All places, not one?
[2:27:22] Speaker 10: All did his Okay? So the only answer to the
[2:27:25] Speaker 10: question how you framed it is no. Yeah.
[2:27:27] Speaker 1: Obviously answer was Jesus omnipresent or omnissioned?
[2:27:35] Speaker 10: I believe he was?
[2:27:36] Speaker 1: Yes, then he didn't know the day or the hour.
[2:27:38] Speaker 1: He lied.
[2:27:41] Speaker 10: No, he's not lying, dude. But the thing is, what
[2:27:44] Speaker 10: did he know?
[2:27:44] Speaker 2: It?
[2:27:44] Speaker 10: The Bible? But dude, if all you okay, there's a dodging.
[2:27:50] Speaker 1: Did he know it? Hold on a minute, man, did
[2:27:55] Speaker 1: Jesus know the day or the hour?
[2:27:59] Speaker 10: He doesn't know when he supposed to come back.
[2:28:00] Speaker 1: But now, okay, so that's that's one thing he doesn't know.
[2:28:06] Speaker 10: Pause here for a second. Pause here for a second.
[2:28:08] Speaker 10: You're trying to confunk the Second Coming, but now you're
[2:28:11] Speaker 10: I'm not.
[2:28:11] Speaker 1: At all trying to debunk the Second Coming. I'm trying
[2:28:13] Speaker 1: to help you understand in the logical syllogism, Jesus couldn't
[2:28:17] Speaker 1: possibly be God because God's omniscient, and there's something that
[2:28:19] Speaker 1: Jesus doesn't know.
[2:28:21] Speaker 10: Keep on around points so fast without really fleshing it out, man,
[2:28:25] Speaker 10: And we started off good, and I'm and I'm humble
[2:28:28] Speaker 10: enough to track along with you. You saw that in the
[2:28:30] Speaker 10: beginning where you brought up the ascension of Elijah and
[2:28:32] Speaker 10: I said, listen, man, I'm gonna have to do some
[2:28:34] Speaker 10: research on that. And I was humble, But now you
[2:28:36] Speaker 10: keep on, I'm trying to explain this to you.
[2:28:38] Speaker 1: But I don't want to. I don't need an explanation.
[2:28:41] Speaker 1: I got two fucking degrees in biblical studies. I need
[2:28:43] Speaker 1: a yes or no, yes or no questions. So we'll
[2:28:46] Speaker 1: try this again. Did Jesus know all things?
[2:28:51] Speaker 10: Jesus knows all things that there is for him to.
[2:28:54] Speaker 1: Know, not right now. When when he was alive on
[2:28:56] Speaker 1: the earth, did he know all things?
[2:28:59] Speaker 10: Some of it knowledge was veiled.
[2:29:02] Speaker 1: Did he know all things?
[2:29:07] Speaker 10: It's just bro, it's hard to.
[2:29:08] Speaker 1: The answer is no. We need this is where you
[2:29:10] Speaker 1: be honest, Lincoln, say the word no. Let it leave
[2:29:12] Speaker 1: your lips. The answer is no. He didn't know all things.
[2:29:16] Speaker 10: In his human form. He did not know all things
[2:29:20] Speaker 10: in a way we can understand the concept of knowing them.
[2:29:23] Speaker 1: But so he didn't know all that.
[2:29:24] Speaker 10: But we're operating off these premises without defining our terms.
[2:29:29] Speaker 10: First of all, you're throwing out Jesus is a human
[2:29:31] Speaker 10: and he's not, you know, omnipresent.
[2:29:33] Speaker 1: But the thing is, Bro, that's all we have evidence of.
[2:29:35] Speaker 1: We only have evidence of Jesus to human. We have
[2:29:38] Speaker 1: no evidence of Jesus the magic man, Jesus the god,
[2:29:42] Speaker 1: Jesus to demi god. The only evidence we have is Jesus.
[2:29:45] Speaker 10: The man I can't. So I'll tell you this, Man,
[2:29:49] Speaker 10: if we're not going to take the Bible as a
[2:29:51] Speaker 10: source of true knowledge, then we can't have this debate.
[2:29:55] Speaker 1: Because I don't believe the Bible is true. This is
[2:29:58] Speaker 1: the starting point. I don't. I don't know why you
[2:30:02] Speaker 1: possibly have this crazy idea that I think that the
[2:30:06] Speaker 1: Bible says things that are true. This is an internal
[2:30:09] Speaker 1: critique in your worldview. The Bible says that Jesus didn't
[2:30:14] Speaker 1: know something. It says that he didn't even know the
[2:30:17] Speaker 1: day nor the hour of his second coming, which I
[2:30:19] Speaker 1: actually think is is it might be accurate because he
[2:30:22] Speaker 1: predicted it what happened before his disciples died, and then
[2:30:25] Speaker 1: it didn't happen, So I believe him he didn't fucking know.
[2:30:30] Speaker 10: Dude, Again, we don't got to cuss at each other, brother, But.
[2:30:33] Speaker 1: What I'm not cussing at you. I'm allowed to use
[2:30:35] Speaker 1: words that aren't Christian. I'm not a Christian. I'm not
[2:30:37] Speaker 1: beholden to your language set.
[2:30:40] Speaker 10: I understand that, and I'm not trying to. I'm not
[2:30:42] Speaker 10: trying to do something. But if you're not going to
[2:30:44] Speaker 10: respect like me as an individual, then why are we
[2:30:47] Speaker 10: even talking.
[2:30:48] Speaker 1: I'm allowed to words. I didn't come into your church.
[2:30:54] Speaker 1: You're on my live stream. It's my livestream. I could
[2:30:56] Speaker 1: say fucking fuck all I want. I'm not. I'm not
[2:30:59] Speaker 1: calling you a fucker.
[2:31:01] Speaker 11: No.
[2:31:01] Speaker 10: I understand that, bro, and that, but I just that
[2:31:04] Speaker 10: type of language is dishonoring.
[2:31:06] Speaker 1: Not only is that dishonoring. I'm not a Christian. I
[2:31:09] Speaker 1: don't give a fuck.
[2:31:11] Speaker 10: Okay, man, then if you're if we're not gonna take
[2:31:14] Speaker 10: what the Bible says as you know what actually happened.
[2:31:17] Speaker 1: Then we started already. I don't believe the Bible is true.
[2:31:23] Speaker 1: I don't believe it, or else I would be a Christian.
[2:31:26] Speaker 1: If I believe the Bible is true, I would be
[2:31:28] Speaker 1: a Christian. And it just demonstrably says things that are
[2:31:31] Speaker 1: not true in the Old Testament.
[2:31:34] Speaker 10: Brother, this is where some of the major historians are
[2:31:36] Speaker 10: getting their history, because let me tell.
[2:31:38] Speaker 1: You, no, they're certainly not test they are, dude, No
[2:31:42] Speaker 1: they're not.
[2:31:44] Speaker 10: There's three thousand original manuscripts that detailed Jesus in distance,
[2:31:49] Speaker 10: but only nine.
[2:31:50] Speaker 1: For we have no original manuscripts, not one, dude.
[2:31:55] Speaker 10: The Dead Sea scrolls are right there.
[2:31:56] Speaker 1: The Dead Sea Scrolls are of the Old Testament. It's
[2:31:58] Speaker 1: almost like you don't even know what you're talking about.
[2:32:00] Speaker 1: Where did you learn these bad talking points the Bible? No,
[2:32:04] Speaker 1: the Dead Sea Scrolls are for the Old Testament. The
[2:32:06] Speaker 1: Dead Sea Scrolls don't say shit about Jesus. No, they're
[2:32:09] Speaker 1: not in the Bible.
[2:32:10] Speaker 10: Because okay, see, and so hold on pause there, because
[2:32:14] Speaker 10: we just uncovered the root of our problem. And I'm
[2:32:16] Speaker 10: trying to tell you, no.
[2:32:17] Speaker 1: You're Your problem is you don't know anything. You only
[2:32:19] Speaker 1: think you know things.
[2:32:21] Speaker 10: No, dude, you're saying that Jesus is not mentioned in
[2:32:24] Speaker 10: the Old Testament. But this is what the writer wants
[2:32:27] Speaker 10: us to get from the TECH.
[2:32:29] Speaker 1: But the writer of the New Testament's wrong. That's what
[2:32:31] Speaker 1: I'm telling you. The New Testament lies about Jesus being
[2:32:35] Speaker 1: the Messiah. Even on page number one of the New Testament,
[2:32:39] Speaker 1: it lies about the lineage of Jesus. It leaves out
[2:32:42] Speaker 1: three people, and it says that he came through a
[2:32:45] Speaker 1: cursed lineage of Jeck Andiah, which means he's disqualified to
[2:32:48] Speaker 1: be the king. And it ends in Joseph. He's not
[2:32:50] Speaker 1: even blood related to Joseph.
[2:32:54] Speaker 10: No, he's not blood related to Joseph. No, he's not,
[2:32:56] Speaker 10: because God is his father. We can agree on.
[2:32:58] Speaker 1: That, okay. And what does God say about the Messiah
[2:33:02] Speaker 1: that's gonna come from David in the Old Testament? What
[2:33:04] Speaker 1: do you say about him?
[2:33:06] Speaker 10: There's a lot of things that he doesn't my head.
[2:33:09] Speaker 1: He says he's gonna he says he's gonna come from
[2:33:11] Speaker 1: whose body?
[2:33:14] Speaker 10: I don't know. I've never heard this before.
[2:33:17] Speaker 1: Second Samuel, seventeen twelve. I'll put it. I'll put it
[2:33:21] Speaker 1: on the screen for you.
[2:33:23] Speaker 10: Okay. I'm getting there as well. Brother, Thank you for
[2:33:26] Speaker 10: putting it up on the screen. I know it is
[2:33:27] Speaker 10: very helpful.
[2:33:28] Speaker 1: Kingship, when your days are fulfilled and you lie down
[2:33:31] Speaker 1: with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring after you,
[2:33:34] Speaker 1: who shall come forth from your body, and I will
[2:33:36] Speaker 1: establish his kingdom. Lineage is through the body.
[2:33:44] Speaker 10: So can I ask you a question? Right, m you're
[2:33:48] Speaker 10: saying that Jesus isn't mentioned in the Old Testament, but
[2:33:50] Speaker 10: then you say that this is about Jesus.
[2:33:53] Speaker 1: No, I'm saying it's not about Jesus. That's why I'm
[2:33:55] Speaker 1: saying the Messiah was supposed to come from the physical
[2:33:59] Speaker 1: body of David, and he did not. We two Samuel
[2:34:04] Speaker 1: seven twelve. So not only was it supposed to come
[2:34:09] Speaker 1: from the body of David, it was also supposed to
[2:34:11] Speaker 1: go through Solomon specifically. And the lineage in Luke goes
[2:34:15] Speaker 1: through Nathan, not through Solomon, which means Luke is right out.
[2:34:19] Speaker 10: Yeah, dude, again, in my translation, we're not. We're looking
[2:34:23] Speaker 10: at the word seed here, seed of David.
[2:34:25] Speaker 1: Even worse, he didn't come from the seed of David.
[2:34:28] Speaker 1: You made it worse, not better, but he did though
[2:34:31] Speaker 1: he did not. There's not a single drop of David
[2:34:34] Speaker 1: seed in him.
[2:34:36] Speaker 10: There's nothing in the Bible that's a contradiction to this passage.
[2:34:39] Speaker 1: Well, try this again. There's not a single drop of
[2:34:42] Speaker 1: David seed. His lineage never made it to Jesus.
[2:34:46] Speaker 10: Jesus of it is of his lineage though.
[2:34:49] Speaker 1: Through No, he's he's not.
[2:34:52] Speaker 10: Where are we getting this information from.
[2:34:55] Speaker 1: Matthew and Luke? The lineage goes to Joseph. Joseph is
[2:34:59] Speaker 1: not the Dad of Jesus. There's no seed of David
[2:35:02] Speaker 1: in Jesus.
[2:35:05] Speaker 10: Dude, but this is Yeah. I just don't know how
[2:35:08] Speaker 10: you're reconciling what you're telling me, because you're saying, So
[2:35:12] Speaker 10: you're trying to say that these Old Testament prophecies, Jesus
[2:35:15] Speaker 10: isn't the one that they're about.
[2:35:17] Speaker 1: No, they're not about Jesus, not even remotely close. That's
[2:35:21] Speaker 1: why we're not Christians because these are not about Jesus.
[2:35:25] Speaker 1: He fulfilled zero prophecies.
[2:35:29] Speaker 10: He's he's clearly fulfilling these prophecies in my eyes.
[2:35:31] Speaker 1: Man, No, he hasn't fulfilled one yet. You already admitted
[2:35:35] Speaker 1: he didn't fulfill Michael five two. So what's the next
[2:35:37] Speaker 1: one that he didn't fulfill.
[2:35:38] Speaker 10: Part of it? Part he didn't fulfill part of it.
[2:35:40] Speaker 1: You got to fulfill all of it. You don't get
[2:35:42] Speaker 1: to fulfill part of it you And again he failed.
[2:35:47] Speaker 1: He failed all He failed all three in my worldview.
[2:35:50] Speaker 1: He failed being from the line of David, he failed
[2:35:52] Speaker 1: being an actual king, and he failed being a god
[2:35:55] Speaker 1: because the Trinity is logically incoherent. So no, he didn't
[2:35:59] Speaker 1: feel anything in A five.
[2:36:01] Speaker 10: So what we're looking at, brother, is you can fulfill
[2:36:04] Speaker 10: part of it, And there's no you can't say you
[2:36:06] Speaker 10: can because if.
[2:36:07] Speaker 1: That's what that's what a loser would say, that didn't
[2:36:09] Speaker 1: get to fulfill it. Yeah, I could say that too.
[2:36:12] Speaker 1: I wrote a donkey, did I fulfill zach Aryan nine nine?
[2:36:17] Speaker 5: Dude?
[2:36:17] Speaker 10: See again, this is this is a view where it's.
[2:36:20] Speaker 2: Like, what's just stop me from believing that MONOCHA Mendel
[2:36:23] Speaker 2: Schneerson was the Messiah if partial fulfillment is acceptable criteria.
[2:36:28] Speaker 1: He doesn't know who that is. Come on, he doesn't
[2:36:30] Speaker 1: know anything.
[2:36:32] Speaker 2: So in the nineties link there was a there was
[2:36:35] Speaker 2: a rabbi who a lot of people thought was the Messiah.
[2:36:38] Speaker 2: He didn't fulfill full prophecy, So why can't we just
[2:36:41] Speaker 2: do the same thing to him?
[2:36:43] Speaker 10: Because in my opinion, dude, we're qualifying these art we're
[2:36:47] Speaker 10: not qualifying these arguments. And what I mean by that
[2:36:50] Speaker 10: is the fact that you guys said, oh, he didn't
[2:36:52] Speaker 10: rule in Israel, so there are four he didn't. But
[2:36:55] Speaker 10: what we read in revelation is that.
[2:36:57] Speaker 1: No one cares about revelation until it comes true. It's
[2:37:01] Speaker 1: it's meaningless to us until it comes true. It means
[2:37:04] Speaker 1: it doesn't mean anything. Does It hasn't come true yet,
[2:37:06] Speaker 1: so it doesn't mean anything. We're not asking what you
[2:37:08] Speaker 1: think will happen in the future, we're asking what actually
[2:37:11] Speaker 1: already happened. We don't care what you think will happen,
[2:37:15] Speaker 1: and so I'll ask my question again on partially fulfillment,
[2:37:18] Speaker 1: I've written a donkey in accordance with Zachariah nine to nine.
[2:37:22] Speaker 1: Rejoice greatly, o daughter Zion, shout aloud, oh daughter Jerusalem.
[2:37:26] Speaker 1: See your king comes to you, trumpet and victorious. Is
[2:37:28] Speaker 1: he humble and writing on a donkey? On the cult
[2:37:31] Speaker 1: of the full of a donkey, I've written a donkey?
[2:37:32] Speaker 1: Did I fulfill this prophecy?
[2:37:36] Speaker 5: No?
[2:37:36] Speaker 10: You do you want me to explain to you why
[2:37:38] Speaker 10: you didn't?
[2:37:38] Speaker 1: I need a yes or no. Did I fulfill the prophecy? No,
[2:37:42] Speaker 1: you did not, but I partially fulfilled it. I rode
[2:37:45] Speaker 1: the donkey, but you didn't.
[2:37:48] Speaker 10: Yeah, dude, but Jesus actually so.
[2:37:50] Speaker 1: But I partially fulfilled it though no, I partially fulfilled it.
[2:37:54] Speaker 6: So I understand what you're saying, but I'm gonna need.
[2:37:59] Speaker 1: Your ties and offerings. Since I partially fulfilled this prophecy,
[2:38:01] Speaker 1: I'm the Messiah.
[2:38:04] Speaker 10: You're so right now, brother, you're putting words in my
[2:38:06] Speaker 10: mouth because I never said it was never my claim
[2:38:08] Speaker 10: that a partial fulfillment is okay.
[2:38:10] Speaker 1: That's you literally said that. No, my claim is that
[2:38:13] Speaker 1: you can't partially fulfill a prophecy to fulfill all bullet points.
[2:38:17] Speaker 1: That was your claim.
[2:38:18] Speaker 10: I think my claim is that he fulfilled all of it.
[2:38:21] Speaker 1: He didn't.
[2:38:22] Speaker 10: It just hasn't been fulfilled yet.
[2:38:24] Speaker 1: That means he didn't do it. If it hasn't been
[2:38:27] Speaker 1: fulfilled yet, that means it hasn't been done. That's what
[2:38:30] Speaker 1: it means to be un That's what it means to
[2:38:32] Speaker 1: be unfulfilled. What's the word unfulfilled mean?
[2:38:36] Speaker 12: So?
[2:38:37] Speaker 10: But okay, so I under no. Unfulfilled just means it
[2:38:40] Speaker 10: hasn't happened yet.
[2:38:41] Speaker 1: I'm right there, Okay. So if something, if something is unfulfilled,
[2:38:45] Speaker 1: does that mean that it's fulfilled?
[2:38:49] Speaker 3: To me?
[2:38:50] Speaker 10: Yes, And I'll explain this because.
[2:38:52] Speaker 1: The word unfulfilled now also means fulfilled. This is the
[2:38:57] Speaker 1: new first never heard this argument? What do we call
[2:38:59] Speaker 1: the unfulfillment Argumentum? I love it.
[2:39:05] Speaker 10: Because we can know it's going to be fulfilled. That's what.
[2:39:08] Speaker 1: No, you can't. You can't know it. You believe it
[2:39:13] Speaker 1: because you believe the lies of the New Testament. I don't.
[2:39:15] Speaker 1: So again, I don't care what you think will happen
[2:39:17] Speaker 1: in the future. I care about what already did happen.
[2:39:21] Speaker 1: And if Jesus didn't you get the requirements of jack
[2:39:24] Speaker 1: Ryan nine, if he didn't complete the requirements of Micah five,
[2:39:28] Speaker 1: then that means they's unfulfilled. You can't point to it
[2:39:31] Speaker 1: as a fulfilled prophecy.
[2:39:33] Speaker 10: Okay, so let's take a look at this.
[2:39:34] Speaker 5: Right.
[2:39:35] Speaker 10: Let's say Percy Jackson the Lightning Sease was faded to
[2:39:38] Speaker 10: go kill Chronos, his dad, his grandfather, and it said
[2:39:43] Speaker 10: one day the son of Poseidon will go and kill
[2:39:45] Speaker 10: Kronos's grandfather. It will remain unfulfilled till Percy Jackson actually
[2:39:51] Speaker 10: goes and kills Kronos. Right, But it is faded. It
[2:39:54] Speaker 10: is faded, but it is faded to happen.
[2:39:57] Speaker 1: That's that way. That's adorable. You have to prove that
[2:39:59] Speaker 1: fad ex that's begging the question. It assumes that your
[2:40:02] Speaker 1: God and your God's fate already exists, which you haven't
[2:40:05] Speaker 1: proven yet. So you can't appeal. So you can appeal,
[2:40:09] Speaker 1: so you can appeal, You can't appeal link to something
[2:40:13] Speaker 1: you have no proof of as evidence of the things
[2:40:15] Speaker 1: that you have no proof of.
[2:40:17] Speaker 10: I can't appeal to it through romans one, brother, That's
[2:40:20] Speaker 10: what I.
[2:40:20] Speaker 5: Was saying no.
[2:40:21] Speaker 1: That's called begging the question. We started on Romans one,
[2:40:25] Speaker 1: and this whole narrative was you proving that Romans one
[2:40:28] Speaker 1: is true and you haven't been able to do it yet,
[2:40:31] Speaker 1: And now you're going back to Romans one to prove
[2:40:33] Speaker 1: that Romans one is true, which is called begging the question.
[2:40:36] Speaker 1: It's a fallacy in argumentation.
[2:40:39] Speaker 2: We've become full circle.
[2:40:41] Speaker 1: I know. Wow, I can't wait to click this video.
[2:40:45] Speaker 1: This is good. People are gonna eat this one up.
[2:40:48] Speaker 1: So so you're aware there's like there's like two and
[2:40:51] Speaker 1: a half thousand people watching this happen in real time.
[2:40:53] Speaker 1: This is crazy.
[2:40:54] Speaker 10: That's that's fine, brother, because two and a half thousand
[2:40:57] Speaker 10: people can hear about Jesus.
[2:40:58] Speaker 6: So it's okay.
[2:40:59] Speaker 1: Trust me that I already know they know about Jesus.
[2:41:02] Speaker 1: All we all know. So the reality is, if Jesus
[2:41:05] Speaker 1: didn't fulfill all the requirements of Micah five, that means
[2:41:08] Speaker 1: it's still unfulfilled. It's showing me a prophecy that was fulfilled.
[2:41:11] Speaker 1: I already got Zacharian nine nine up. You want to
[2:41:13] Speaker 1: go to that one.
[2:41:14] Speaker 10: Because dude, but what you're doing is you're saying you're
[2:41:18] Speaker 10: using the Bible to try to debunk the Bible, which is.
[2:41:21] Speaker 1: Not It's not even hard.
[2:41:24] Speaker 10: But then I'm trying to tell you. But then you're saying, well,
[2:41:26] Speaker 10: how do we know that the Bible's real?
[2:41:28] Speaker 1: I'm showing you a contradiction just to be sure. Link,
[2:41:31] Speaker 1: I'm showing you a contradiction. I'm not saying that it's true.
[2:41:34] Speaker 1: I don't think Zachariah wrote this. I don't care if
[2:41:37] Speaker 1: he wrote it or not. I'm showing you that even
[2:41:39] Speaker 1: if you take the Old Testament for its word, it
[2:41:43] Speaker 1: contradicts the New Testament. I don't believe the Old Testament
[2:41:46] Speaker 1: is true either, but if it contradicts the Old Testament,
[2:41:49] Speaker 1: then it's certainly not true.
[2:41:51] Speaker 10: It is true, though, But what you're.
[2:41:53] Speaker 1: Prove it link, you haven't proven any of it yet.
[2:41:56] Speaker 10: Again, but all your arguments are unqualified, meaning they are one.
[2:42:00] Speaker 1: Hundred percent qualified.
[2:42:03] Speaker 10: Then you can't tell me what a God is. You're
[2:42:04] Speaker 10: saying God.
[2:42:05] Speaker 1: I did give you a definition of God. Just just link.
[2:42:09] Speaker 1: Just just take five seconds and just pretend I'm I'm
[2:42:11] Speaker 1: Hebrew for the next hour. Okay, just pretend I'm a
[2:42:14] Speaker 1: fucking Jewish hebrew Man and I believe in the Old testiment.
[2:42:16] Speaker 1: Will that make things easier for you?
[2:42:19] Speaker 10: It's not that, brother, but what you're what you're feeling.
[2:42:22] Speaker 1: To help himself. I don't know why link you can't
[2:42:26] Speaker 1: answer simple questions. It's crazy that you're unable to focus.
[2:42:30] Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like like you need to
[2:42:34] Speaker 1: take a deep breath. I realize right now that you
[2:42:37] Speaker 1: you you're like in your mind, you probably think you're
[2:42:40] Speaker 1: saying things that are intelligent. Everyone here listening doesn't agree
[2:42:44] Speaker 1: with you. We all see what's happening right now. So
[2:42:46] Speaker 1: stop spiraling off into tangents and just like answer easy
[2:42:50] Speaker 1: questions with easy answers, Like if you ask me an
[2:42:52] Speaker 1: easy question, I just give you an easy answer. I
[2:42:54] Speaker 1: don't give you the answer and preach after it. None
[2:42:56] Speaker 1: that's necessary.
[2:42:57] Speaker 3: Right.
[2:42:58] Speaker 1: So what we're looking for right now because you started
[2:43:00] Speaker 1: with the New Testaments true, and now we're demonstrating that
[2:43:04] Speaker 1: we don't believe the New Testament's true. And here's why.
[2:43:06] Speaker 1: One of the reasons is because in fact, we have
[2:43:09] Speaker 1: all these prophecies about the Messiah, and Jesus didn't fulfill
[2:43:12] Speaker 1: any of them. And so far you haven't shown us
[2:43:14] Speaker 1: a prophecy that actually got fulfilled.
[2:43:16] Speaker 10: Yet Okay, so let's use that line of reasoning. You're
[2:43:20] Speaker 10: using the prophecies from the Old Testament to show that
[2:43:22] Speaker 10: the New Testament isn't true. That's what you just said, right,
[2:43:27] Speaker 10: So by looking at that text, you believe that those
[2:43:31] Speaker 10: writings are credible.
[2:43:32] Speaker 1: No, I don't.
[2:43:35] Speaker 11: So.
[2:43:35] Speaker 10: But then how are you appealing to their authority.
[2:43:37] Speaker 1: Because you think they're a credible link. I don't believe
[2:43:41] Speaker 1: they have any authority. What I'm saying is whether they
[2:43:43] Speaker 1: have authority or not, the predictions within the text did
[2:43:47] Speaker 1: not come true. I can say the same thing about
[2:43:49] Speaker 1: Noster Domas. I could pick up Damas, I can read it.
[2:43:52] Speaker 1: I can say did these predictions come true? Yes or no?
[2:43:54] Speaker 1: Doesn't matter what I think about Noster Damas. All you
[2:43:57] Speaker 1: have to do is read the text and ask yourself
[2:43:59] Speaker 1: did it happen?
[2:44:01] Speaker 5: Yes?
[2:44:01] Speaker 10: But then again, dude, what we're looking at is you're
[2:44:05] Speaker 10: trying to explain this text, and you're saying this means this,
[2:44:08] Speaker 10: Therefore it contradicts this. But the meaning that you're saying
[2:44:12] Speaker 10: Connordts is not what the author intended.
[2:44:15] Speaker 1: And That's what I'm trying to say. You're wrong.
[2:44:19] Speaker 10: You can That's why I'm debating you because you can
[2:44:22] Speaker 10: believe that.
[2:44:23] Speaker 1: But you already admitted that I was right. You already
[2:44:26] Speaker 1: said Micah five to two didn't get fulfilled yet, which
[2:44:28] Speaker 1: means I am right next one.
[2:44:32] Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, I guess that's that's where we're we're, uh,
[2:44:35] Speaker 10: we're disagreeing because I have a hope that it will
[2:44:38] Speaker 10: be fulfilled.
[2:44:38] Speaker 1: I don't care about your hope that it will be fulfilled.
[2:44:41] Speaker 1: If it hasn't been fulfilled yet, it means it's unfulfilled.
[2:44:46] Speaker 1: I want to see a prophecy that has been fulfilled,
[2:44:49] Speaker 1: not one that you think will be fulfilled.
[2:44:53] Speaker 10: I mean, dude, he's dying on the cross, he's resurrecting.
[2:44:56] Speaker 1: You know, none of its prophesied, none of it. Show
[2:44:59] Speaker 1: me the prophecy the resurrection, none of it's prophesied, dude.
[2:45:06] Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean I can't show it. I can't off
[2:45:09] Speaker 10: the top of my head.
[2:45:10] Speaker 1: Because there isn't one. There's no prophecy about a dying
[2:45:13] Speaker 1: and rising Messiah. In fact, the prophecy about the Messiah
[2:45:17] Speaker 1: is that he's going to be a victorious king. And
[2:45:19] Speaker 1: you want to know what that victorious king's gonna do.
[2:45:22] Speaker 1: And Zacharai nine it says he will cut off the
[2:45:24] Speaker 1: chariots from Ephrium, and the war horse from Jerusalem, and
[2:45:27] Speaker 1: the battle bow shall be cut off, and he shall
[2:45:29] Speaker 1: command peace to the nations. His dominion will be from
[2:45:32] Speaker 1: sea to sea, from the river to the ends of
[2:45:34] Speaker 1: the earth. Did Jesus end all the wars in Israel?
[2:45:38] Speaker 10: He will?
[2:45:39] Speaker 1: Did he do it? I didn't ask will he do it?
[2:45:41] Speaker 1: I said, did he do it?
[2:45:43] Speaker 10: And that's what I'm trying to tell you, brother, is when.
[2:45:46] Speaker 1: We read the Bible link, I need a yes or no?
[2:45:48] Speaker 1: Did he do it? Okay, then it's unfulfilled as well,
[2:45:53] Speaker 1: which means Matthew twenty one is a lie when it
[2:45:56] Speaker 1: says that Jesus fulfilled Zacharai nine, next one, which prophecy
[2:46:01] Speaker 1: did he fulfilled? And we're still waiting for one? We're
[2:46:03] Speaker 1: oer for two?
[2:46:05] Speaker 10: Wait, hold on, hold on, go back to Zachariine in
[2:46:07] Speaker 10: ten he did fulfill Zacharyanine.
[2:46:09] Speaker 1: No he didn't, because he rode into Jerusalem, So did I?
[2:46:12] Speaker 1: So did I? You told me that wasn't enough. You
[2:46:15] Speaker 1: said that I couldn't fulfill the prophecy because I wrote
[2:46:18] Speaker 1: a donkey. So if I don't fulfill the prophecy for
[2:46:21] Speaker 1: riding a donkey. Then neither does Jesus.
[2:46:24] Speaker 10: Because again this is unqualified. You have to ride the
[2:46:27] Speaker 10: donkey into Jerusalem?
[2:46:28] Speaker 1: Does it say that? Does it say that?
[2:46:30] Speaker 10: Or gathered?
[2:46:31] Speaker 1: Does it say that?
[2:46:34] Speaker 5: Dude?
[2:46:34] Speaker 10: Yes, this is what the author wants you to know.
[2:46:37] Speaker 1: Okay, So this is the one prophecy you want to
[2:46:40] Speaker 1: So this is the one prophecy you want to be
[2:46:42] Speaker 1: literal with, right, Okay. It says a king he's going
[2:46:46] Speaker 1: to be triumphant, victorious. When did Jesus rule? When did
[2:46:50] Speaker 1: Jesus rule and reign over Jerusalem?
[2:46:53] Speaker 10: Just because he's just because he is a king doesn't
[2:46:55] Speaker 10: mean to know everybody can know that he was king?
[2:46:59] Speaker 1: It does, no, no, no, It says he's gonna be triumphant
[2:47:02] Speaker 1: and victorious over his enemies. That's verse ten. So again,
[2:47:07] Speaker 1: you don't believe Jesus fulfilled all of this prophecy. You
[2:47:10] Speaker 1: only think he fulfilled part of the prophecy, which means
[2:47:13] Speaker 1: if partial prophecy fulfillments count, that means I partially fulfilled it.
[2:47:19] Speaker 10: See okay, so listen to me real quick. You cannot
[2:47:22] Speaker 10: partially fulfill it because no, why can't I Because look
[2:47:26] Speaker 10: at verse nine.
[2:47:28] Speaker 1: I'm looking at it. It's on the screen.
[2:47:30] Speaker 10: Okay o, daughter of Zion, and you who is that
[2:47:33] Speaker 10: referring to.
[2:47:35] Speaker 1: There's no you mean your.
[2:47:38] Speaker 10: No no no, see your king.
[2:47:39] Speaker 1: Comes to you. Well, this is obviously again this is
[2:47:44] Speaker 1: a partial.
[2:47:45] Speaker 10: Hold on straightforward answers.
[2:47:47] Speaker 1: So link we know who you is. It's the Jewish
[2:47:51] Speaker 1: people what's left of them. And again it doesn't matter
[2:47:54] Speaker 1: because it's a partial fulfillment. I partially fulfilled the part
[2:47:58] Speaker 1: of writing on the don when I when I come
[2:48:01] Speaker 1: back as the full Messiah, I'll fulfill the part of
[2:48:05] Speaker 1: being a king in Israel. It's partial fulfillment.
[2:48:08] Speaker 10: I mean you're saying, but you're saying it's a partial
[2:48:11] Speaker 10: But you cook yourself because.
[2:48:12] Speaker 1: You no, I didn't. I'm using your logic. I don't
[2:48:15] Speaker 1: have to fulfill all of it. I only have to
[2:48:17] Speaker 1: fulfill part of it.
[2:48:19] Speaker 10: But you didn't fulfill any of it.
[2:48:21] Speaker 1: I did. I wrote a donkey.
[2:48:23] Speaker 10: You didn't write it into Jerusalem.
[2:48:24] Speaker 1: It doesn't it doesn't matter that that's part of it.
[2:48:26] Speaker 1: That's only part of it. I'll be in Jerusalem when
[2:48:28] Speaker 1: I come back.
[2:48:31] Speaker 10: Dude. It's just your logic.
[2:48:33] Speaker 1: I understand where it's your logic, not mine. I don't
[2:48:36] Speaker 1: believe in partial fulfillment.
[2:48:37] Speaker 10: You do, but you're again, it's unqualified what you're saying.
[2:48:41] Speaker 1: I don't even think you know what unqualified means. What
[2:48:43] Speaker 1: do you think that word means?
[2:48:44] Speaker 10: You keep using it because you're not qualifying your argument.
[2:48:48] Speaker 1: What do you think it means?
[2:48:50] Speaker 10: You're not putting it in the context that it needs
[2:48:53] Speaker 10: to be in order to understand this.
[2:48:54] Speaker 1: That's not what unqualified means.
[2:48:57] Speaker 10: You said, I wrote a donkey, did I fulfill it?
[2:48:59] Speaker 10: That argue is unqualified.
[2:49:01] Speaker 1: The context is irrelevant. Context is meaningless for the prophecies
[2:49:05] Speaker 1: of Jesus. They're all partial fulfillment or context non dependent.
[2:49:09] Speaker 1: There's not a single prophecy that Jesus fulfilled in the
[2:49:12] Speaker 1: original context of the prophecy, not one.
[2:49:16] Speaker 10: What I believe, brother, is that Jesus is fulfilling these prophecies.
[2:49:19] Speaker 10: Some of them he already fulfilled.
[2:49:20] Speaker 1: Okay, did he fulfill all of this prophecy?
[2:49:23] Speaker 10: He fulfills verse nine, verse ten?
[2:49:25] Speaker 1: He will, I said all of it. Well, he didn't
[2:49:28] Speaker 1: fulfill verse nine because he's never a king, Okay, And.
[2:49:32] Speaker 10: I can explain that, right. So let's say here, Saul
[2:49:38] Speaker 10: and David, No, it's not that right, it's.
[2:49:39] Speaker 1: Not When was he a king in Israel?
[2:49:43] Speaker 10: Okay, I'll explain it to you, right, So give me
[2:49:44] Speaker 10: a second. So Saul and David, do you know them?
[2:49:48] Speaker 1: No, I've never heard of them. I went to Bible
[2:49:50] Speaker 1: college and seminary. I never heard of the first two
[2:49:53] Speaker 1: kings of Israel.
[2:49:55] Speaker 10: Okay, So when David was anointed king? Did all of
[2:49:59] Speaker 10: Israel know he was the king?
[2:50:01] Speaker 5: Or what?
[2:50:01] Speaker 12: Not?
[2:50:01] Speaker 1: Yet?
[2:50:02] Speaker 10: When?
[2:50:02] Speaker 22: Not?
[2:50:03] Speaker 3: Yet?
[2:50:04] Speaker 10: They didn't know?
[2:50:05] Speaker 5: Right?
[2:50:05] Speaker 10: Right, they didn't know?
[2:50:06] Speaker 11: But did he?
[2:50:07] Speaker 1: But did he? Did he become king?
[2:50:11] Speaker 10: David did become king?
[2:50:12] Speaker 5: Right?
[2:50:12] Speaker 1: Exactly when did Jesus become king?
[2:50:16] Speaker 10: Okay?
[2:50:16] Speaker 6: Hold on, you're just coming.
[2:50:17] Speaker 1: I'm sorry. When did Jesus become king?
[2:50:20] Speaker 10: Hold on, no, let's slow it down again. We're jumping.
[2:50:23] Speaker 1: I love it when he gets excited. When did Jesus
[2:50:25] Speaker 1: become king? Hold on, let me let me when did
[2:50:30] Speaker 1: Jesus become I already know your point. It's a bad one.
[2:50:33] Speaker 1: You're saying he's king even though he hasn't reigned as king.
[2:50:35] Speaker 1: Because once you're anointed your de facto the king, but
[2:50:39] Speaker 1: then there's some sort of a delay. And that's a
[2:50:40] Speaker 1: silly argument because I'm still waiting for when you think
[2:50:44] Speaker 1: he will. Actually, when you think he'll actually be king
[2:50:47] Speaker 1: over his people.
[2:50:50] Speaker 10: Your king comes to you. Jesus is going to reign
[2:50:53] Speaker 10: as king in the future.
[2:50:57] Speaker 23: In the future, he'll be king. Oh, which didn't happen?
[2:51:00] Speaker 23: Ye Oh no, Actually, actually, I'm I'm the anointed king.
[2:51:06] Speaker 23: God anointed me king. I'll be the king of the
[2:51:08] Speaker 23: Jews when I come back. See how easy it is
[2:51:11] Speaker 23: to make these unfalsifiable claims.
[2:51:12] Speaker 1: I'm the king. Throw some crowns in the chat for
[2:51:15] Speaker 1: the king. Throw the chat. Where's my where's my massalee?
[2:51:18] Speaker 1: I need a burger king crown? Where's my fucking crown?
[2:51:21] Speaker 10: For falling the same rabbit hole? Man? Of now you're saying, well,
[2:51:24] Speaker 10: I did something that is kind of similar to the text,
[2:51:28] Speaker 10: so therefore.
[2:51:28] Speaker 1: That's all Jesus did. I thought Jesus did. He did
[2:51:31] Speaker 1: something vaguely familiar to the text. You like it about Jesus,
[2:51:35] Speaker 1: but you hate it about me because you don't know,
[2:51:38] Speaker 1: Like you don't know. You're getting cooked inside and out
[2:51:40] Speaker 1: right now. You think that you can special plead for
[2:51:43] Speaker 1: Jesus partially fulfilling, vaguely fulfilling, But when I do it,
[2:51:47] Speaker 1: you get all bent out of shape. But look at
[2:51:49] Speaker 1: all these people in the chat worshiping me as king.
[2:51:51] Speaker 1: Put a crown in the chat if you think Justin's king, no.
[2:51:56] Speaker 10: King of mine? Brother, That's all I have to say.
[2:51:58] Speaker 1: But okay, so uh find me a prophecy that Jesus
[2:52:01] Speaker 1: really did fulfill that I didn't fulfill.
[2:52:05] Speaker 10: This prophecy right here, I believe, is the best one
[2:52:07] Speaker 10: I could point you to, because that's the best. That's
[2:52:11] Speaker 10: the best.
[2:52:11] Speaker 1: You can do.
[2:52:13] Speaker 10: But you're because you're you're dismissing everything I say. And
[2:52:18] Speaker 10: and mom.
[2:52:18] Speaker 1: And I gotta go get something, talk to talk to
[2:52:21] Speaker 1: link for for a moment because I know you've got
[2:52:23] Speaker 1: some things to say about the prophecies. I got to
[2:52:25] Speaker 1: get something. I'll be right back.
[2:52:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, I grab your crum. But like you know, King
[2:52:30] Speaker 2: David wasn't even though he was annoying, he wasn't actually
[2:52:32] Speaker 2: king until he actually sat with the throne and became king.
[2:52:35] Speaker 10: Right, So I don't I don't believe that. I believe
[2:52:39] Speaker 10: that once he was anointed the king, that kingship where
[2:52:42] Speaker 10: God's Yeah.
[2:52:45] Speaker 2: Where does it? Where does the text address him as
[2:52:47] Speaker 2: being a king prior to his taking the throne? Where
[2:52:51] Speaker 2: does the term king ever get ascribed to David.
[2:52:56] Speaker 10: So he's not ruling as the function of a king.
[2:52:58] Speaker 10: But God, so he's not king, kingship. He is king
[2:53:03] Speaker 10: in God's eyes.
[2:53:04] Speaker 2: Yes, No, when does it When does the text of
[2:53:07] Speaker 2: the of the Bible ever refer to David as a
[2:53:09] Speaker 2: king prior to his sitting on the throne of Israel?
[2:53:13] Speaker 10: Because okay, so, let so I'll rebut that with a question.
[2:53:17] Speaker 10: If some guy came and told me, Hey, you're going
[2:53:19] Speaker 10: to be the next president of the United States, Am
[2:53:22] Speaker 10: I the next president?
[2:53:24] Speaker 2: Or no, you're the next president. But you can't go
[2:53:26] Speaker 2: around saying you are the president until you actually are president.
[2:53:29] Speaker 1: Correct, correct, So Jesus is not king.
[2:53:32] Speaker 2: So Jesus was not the king when he wrote in
[2:53:34] Speaker 2: Jerusalemon and Donkey.
[2:53:37] Speaker 10: He was the king because he was the king.
[2:53:39] Speaker 2: No, he didn't, He didn't he didn't sit on any throne.
[2:53:44] Speaker 10: Because okay, so, because he did not serve in the
[2:53:47] Speaker 10: office of the kingship at that time does not mean
[2:53:50] Speaker 10: he was not the king.
[2:53:51] Speaker 2: And that's no, that's exactly what that means. Because again,
[2:53:54] Speaker 2: King David was not king of Israel until he takes
[2:53:57] Speaker 2: until he took the throne of Israel. The same would
[2:54:00] Speaker 2: be true for Jesus. Jesus is not the only Jewish
[2:54:02] Speaker 2: man who's ever wrote into Jerusalem on a donkey, nor
[2:54:05] Speaker 2: is he the only person. If all it takes to
[2:54:07] Speaker 2: be a king is someone calling you a king, then again,
[2:54:10] Speaker 2: rapping Menacha Mendo Sneersen is also the Messiah because he
[2:54:13] Speaker 2: is called king among the Jews.
[2:54:17] Speaker 10: No, for sure, and again you're you're trying to pin
[2:54:20] Speaker 10: this claim on me, and and again it's not. You're
[2:54:23] Speaker 10: not doing it out of malicious intent. I don't believe.
[2:54:25] Speaker 10: But you and the host, the co host. Sorry, I
[2:54:29] Speaker 10: don't mean to do. You are just as valid as
[2:54:32] Speaker 10: host to see.
[2:54:33] Speaker 2: But oh he's the host, I'm not.
[2:54:34] Speaker 10: Basically, you're trying to say, you're.
[2:54:38] Speaker 2: Here's the problem link No.
[2:54:41] Speaker 10: Wait, hold on, hold on, because because hold on, let
[2:54:43] Speaker 10: me finish.
[2:54:44] Speaker 2: Here's the problem.
[2:54:49] Speaker 1: Actually have a whole Messiah get up. I don't know
[2:54:52] Speaker 1: where it went though, I can't find my costume. So
[2:54:54] Speaker 1: this is the best we're gonna do. I'm the Messiah
[2:54:57] Speaker 1: now king king, justin Messiah, justin messiahs justin in the house. Yeah, well,
[2:55:07] Speaker 1: if your God was real, I would care.
[2:55:10] Speaker 10: He's real, and but so.
[2:55:12] Speaker 2: So, but by the way, justice just as much. Justin
[2:55:15] Speaker 2: is just as much a king as Jesus ever was.
[2:55:19] Speaker 1: I fulfilled as many prophecies as Jesus.
[2:55:23] Speaker 10: When you die, man, you'll regret that saying that there
[2:55:26] Speaker 10: is a life after death. The empty threats, it's no, no, no, no,
[2:55:33] Speaker 10: it's not empty threats.
[2:55:35] Speaker 2: You'll regret that.
[2:55:37] Speaker 10: You will. And it's just the truth. It's not on
[2:55:39] Speaker 10: my it's not on.
[2:55:40] Speaker 2: My No no link, no link, you're gonna link. You're
[2:55:44] Speaker 2: gonna you're gonna regret it when you when you die
[2:55:46] Speaker 2: and you stand before yeahweh and he condemns you to
[2:55:49] Speaker 2: get Hannah because you worship the Man as if you
[2:55:51] Speaker 2: were God, who wasn't even Messiah.
[2:55:54] Speaker 10: Why are you not gonna.
[2:55:56] Speaker 1: Listen? I'll tell you this link. I've only got one
[2:56:00] Speaker 1: advice for you.
[2:56:01] Speaker 2: Link.
[2:56:01] Speaker 1: If you deny me before men, I'll deny you before
[2:56:04] Speaker 1: my father in heaven.
[2:56:07] Speaker 10: So like this is getting just blasphemous on another level.
[2:56:11] Speaker 1: But what I and again, dude, blasphemous. I'm the Messiah,
[2:56:16] Speaker 1: but you're not man Messiah.
[2:56:19] Speaker 10: And so what we're looking at God know, he wrote.
[2:56:22] Speaker 2: On a donkey. He wrote in a donkey, he wrote
[2:56:25] Speaker 2: on a donkey.
[2:56:27] Speaker 1: Actually, I believe him. When I was sixteen, I had
[2:56:29] Speaker 1: nails go through my hands too. By the way, it
[2:56:35] Speaker 1: was a construction accident, but it happened.
[2:56:38] Speaker 10: Gonna get me.
[2:56:38] Speaker 1: I'm not rage baiting. I'm demonstrating the nonsense of Jesus
[2:56:42] Speaker 1: being the Messiah by demonstrating that everything Jesus fulfilled I fulfilled.
[2:56:46] Speaker 1: Also I also fulfilled. Uh Jeremiah four, my low.
[2:56:53] Speaker 10: Key, my phone is like getting cooked.
[2:57:00] Speaker 5: Sorry, that's not the only thing good cooked.
[2:57:04] Speaker 1: A minute, Yeah, that might be the that might true.
[2:57:11] Speaker 10: Okay, let's go. I think I go in time.
[2:57:15] Speaker 15: To go dead.
[2:57:16] Speaker 1: Okay, I'm actually filling. I'm feeling job twenty seven right now.
[2:57:20] Speaker 1: I want to see another prophecy I fulfilled.
[2:57:25] Speaker 10: No, I don't.
[2:57:26] Speaker 1: Twenty seven eleven says I will teach you concerning the
[2:57:30] Speaker 1: hand of God, that which is with the Almighty. I
[2:57:33] Speaker 1: will not conceal. I will bitchmack a hoe see I
[2:57:37] Speaker 1: just fulfilled job twenty seven.
[2:57:42] Speaker 10: No, it's okay. If you railroad me one more time
[2:57:44] Speaker 10: with mockery, I'm gonna leave.
[2:57:45] Speaker 1: But if you do want to talk pil Justin of
[2:57:48] Speaker 1: the Jews, I'm the Messiah. I don't care. If you
[2:57:51] Speaker 1: worship me, I'll throw you in hell.
[2:57:54] Speaker 10: Okay, all right, brother, have a good night.
[2:57:56] Speaker 2: I appreciate you talking with me and just Shherita.
[2:58:02] Speaker 10: I love you guys, and I'll catch you later.
[2:58:04] Speaker 1: I'm sure you do. Have a good one.
[2:58:07] Speaker 2: It's funny how the more the more he got cooked,
[2:58:10] Speaker 2: the darker his screen. Guy, it's irn.
[2:58:14] Speaker 1: I'm so mad right now that I couldn't find my
[2:58:16] Speaker 1: Jesus outfit. I legit have a Jesus outfit somewhere.
[2:58:20] Speaker 2: That's gonna get screenshot for sure.
[2:58:22] Speaker 1: I have to dig it out anyways. Uh, because I
[2:58:27] Speaker 1: was just thinking about that the other week. I was like,
[2:58:28] Speaker 1: you know what, it's been over a year, Dalton, you
[2:58:31] Speaker 1: haven't been around long enough. I used to run a
[2:58:33] Speaker 1: live stream occasionally titled I'm the Messiah, and then I
[2:58:37] Speaker 1: went through all the prophecies that I partially fulfilled, just
[2:58:40] Speaker 1: like Jesus and just watch people crash out. I haven't
[2:58:42] Speaker 1: done it in the forever, but I'll dig my my
[2:58:45] Speaker 1: costume mountain and do it again soon.
[2:58:47] Speaker 2: I love that.
[2:58:47] Speaker 5: Hey.
[2:58:48] Speaker 2: By the way, next time someone wants to try to
[2:58:50] Speaker 2: bring up to you Micah five to two at the
[2:58:52] Speaker 2: end where it says mimy olam, meaning for everlasting. I
[2:58:56] Speaker 2: actually I found a similar usage in Micah seven fourteen,
[2:59:02] Speaker 2: where it uses the same Hebrew phrase, and even in
[2:59:05] Speaker 2: the ESB and stuff like that, it says from ancient days,
[2:59:08] Speaker 2: I love it, I love it mic Is seven fourteen.
[2:59:12] Speaker 1: All Right, I'm gonna read a couple of Superchet's friends
[2:59:15] Speaker 1: while I'm doing that. Make sure your following Dalton on
[2:59:17] Speaker 1: YouTube and on TikTok for those who haven't followed his
[2:59:20] Speaker 1: YouTube account yet. And we're gonna get We're gonna get
[2:59:23] Speaker 1: another guest in here. Shortly. Nick says, I'm not in Jamaica.
[2:59:27] Speaker 1: Oh I'm sorry. I'm just from Jamaica. It's a saying
[2:59:30] Speaker 1: that we say in Jamaica big ups, which means respect.
[2:59:33] Speaker 1: I'm in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Well, hello over in Fort Lauderdale.
[2:59:38] Speaker 1: I hope you're enjoying some decent weather. It's starting to
[2:59:40] Speaker 1: get chilli where I'm at. But thank you for the
[2:59:43] Speaker 1: super chat and master Michelle Heer says, Doug rolled away
[2:59:45] Speaker 1: our sins. Book of Sediment four twenty. The stone shall
[2:59:49] Speaker 1: not cast the first rock light the bush pass it
[2:59:52] Speaker 1: left for you shall be highly blessed. I like that one. Actually,
[2:59:55] Speaker 1: I like that one a lot. That's a good rhyme
[2:59:57] Speaker 1: for Doug and ze Cool says, p stored in the
[3:00:00] Speaker 1: balls according to my religion, I do. I don't know
[3:00:05] Speaker 1: if that. I'm pretty sure that's not anatomically correct. I
[3:00:09] Speaker 1: think I think you might be confused on that one.
[3:00:12] Speaker 1: But thank you. Hypnotic Blade says, don't hate on our
[3:00:15] Speaker 1: vertical sisters, brothers and others. They don't know of the
[3:00:18] Speaker 1: wide backgrounds and the beautiful decor. We are all rock hard.
[3:00:22] Speaker 1: For Doug Well, I will say this, the vertical stream
[3:00:25] Speaker 1: doesn't get as much as the background. But that's okay.
[3:00:29] Speaker 1: Right now they're getting more of my face. Got a
[3:00:31] Speaker 1: big oldhead on the horizontal stream right now. Oh no,
[3:00:34] Speaker 1: wrong one. I've switched my camera out. Yahweh, yahweh, scro them.
[3:00:40] Speaker 1: Thank you for the six one six says Chris has
[3:00:43] Speaker 1: no choice but to come up to make bad arguments
[3:00:45] Speaker 1: about free will. You're right, Oh, I see what you
[3:00:47] Speaker 1: did there. Had no choice because it's fucking determined, unbelievable.
[3:00:51] Speaker 1: That's a great super chat. Oh my gosh, and uh nacasis,
[3:00:58] Speaker 1: I'll never say that name. No can see us, thank
[3:01:01] Speaker 1: you for the five dollar Canadian chest says the Greeks
[3:01:03] Speaker 1: called the laws of logic the laws of thought because
[3:01:06] Speaker 1: they were a first person description of the act of thinking.
[3:01:09] Speaker 1: I agree. I'm gonna start calling the laws of thought
[3:01:12] Speaker 1: because I think it's a better description of him. I
[3:01:14] Speaker 1: appreciate that. And Steve says, is it just me? Or
[3:01:17] Speaker 1: is there more lying on the horizontal feed? Oh no,
[3:01:21] Speaker 1: now there's accusations going on. Abraham the Chowdan says, I
[3:01:25] Speaker 1: live stream vertical, but rewatch horizontal. Yet I know Doug
[3:01:29] Speaker 1: will never spit me out because of my lukewarm orientation preferences,
[3:01:34] Speaker 1: and he won't. He will, he never do it. You
[3:01:36] Speaker 1: can be transstream and Doug loves you for it. Lord
[3:01:40] Speaker 1: Aluminous Poos says, Hey, guys, looks like the tower is
[3:01:43] Speaker 1: really coming aga may merit am I supposed to know
[3:01:49] Speaker 1: what that means?
[3:01:50] Speaker 2: No, he was talking and they they, oh, the tower's coming.
[3:01:53] Speaker 11: On like.
[3:01:55] Speaker 1: His language change. That was good. I'm an idiot. Yeah, sorry, I.
[3:02:00] Speaker 2: Made one joke about a sectarianism growing in your group,
[3:02:06] Speaker 2: and now suddenly every comment this is.
[3:02:10] Speaker 1: What's happening now with the schism is afoot Steel Team
[3:02:14] Speaker 1: Stick says, ever heard of the mineral facts argument for Doug. No,
[3:02:18] Speaker 1: but that's a great play on the minimum facts argument.
[3:02:22] Speaker 1: I like this a lot. The wordplay is good tonight,
[3:02:24] Speaker 1: friends and nerd Unleash says, I was lost in the
[3:02:28] Speaker 1: quagmire of the quarry. Doug pulled me out to get
[3:02:32] Speaker 1: down into the bedrock of belief. Can I get a
[3:02:36] Speaker 1: geological amen? Dig deep for Doug? That was amazing use
[3:02:40] Speaker 1: of words. I really do appreciate that was good. And Adam,
[3:02:44] Speaker 1: thank you for sending out five DZ Debate memberships. That's
[3:02:47] Speaker 1: one more for horizontal stream. Sean f says, the Holy
[3:02:51] Speaker 1: Silicon spoke to me. Do not think that I have
[3:02:53] Speaker 1: come to abolish the aspect ratio, but to fulfill into
[3:02:57] Speaker 1: the horizontal direction. Anyone who sets aside any of these
[3:03:01] Speaker 1: pixels will not enter my kingdom. There you have it.
[3:03:04] Speaker 1: Doug needs both both. He wants you to watch both streams.
[3:03:08] Speaker 1: Mister exclusive says, let me take a crack at what
[3:03:12] Speaker 1: at a super chat you just did. Congratulations and Crypti Tepti,
[3:03:16] Speaker 1: says Ragalith one sixty nine are rock the foundation of man.
[3:03:21] Speaker 1: A steadfast love gave way to choice for mortals, but
[3:03:25] Speaker 1: no punishment prescribed. Be stoned, be joyful like a geold
[3:03:28] Speaker 1: we hold beautiful inside. I like that one. Actually, we're
[3:03:32] Speaker 1: all geodes, a little rough on the outside sometimes, but
[3:03:35] Speaker 1: really special on the inside. Simon, thank you for the
[3:03:38] Speaker 1: ten hour, super Chet says, here's ten towers. Man. Listening
[3:03:40] Speaker 1: to that guy acting up while playing punch out on
[3:03:43] Speaker 1: my nys is so entertaining. Man, I appreciate that. And
[3:03:47] Speaker 1: here I gotta be honest, that was an entertaining chat.
[3:03:50] Speaker 1: Entertaining beg head said. Another theist thought, more anti Christian?
[3:03:56] Speaker 1: You got more anti Christian thong? Okay, anti Christian songs?
[3:04:00] Speaker 1: Only they only the good die young? Oh yeah, by
[3:04:02] Speaker 1: Billy Joe, he's talking about how, yeah, the religious people
[3:04:05] Speaker 1: don't really live, they die young because they throw their
[3:04:08] Speaker 1: life away to religion. Also, I'd rather laugh at the
[3:04:11] Speaker 1: sinners than cry with the saints. The sinners are much
[3:04:13] Speaker 1: more fun. This is this is true. Okay, listen, Billy
[3:04:16] Speaker 1: Joel doesn't get much love from the millennial generation, but
[3:04:19] Speaker 1: he's got a lot of really good songs. He really does.
[3:04:22] Speaker 1: Chip thinks, super.
[3:04:24] Speaker 2: What I say, My favorite Billy Joel's song is not
[3:04:27] Speaker 2: even one that a lot of people ever recognized. But
[3:04:29] Speaker 2: it's the one he did from Oliver and Company.
[3:04:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, he actually, well he did the music for All
[3:04:35] Speaker 1: Dogs Go to Heaven.
[3:04:36] Speaker 2: Too, did he? Well? There you there you go.
[3:04:40] Speaker 1: There was like a Billy Joel movie music era. Chip says,
[3:04:45] Speaker 1: why the fuck can't Christians understand verb tenses? Did every
[3:04:48] Speaker 1: one of them fail English? They did? They did, They
[3:04:53] Speaker 1: graduated school, but then they were minds were poisoned to
[3:04:56] Speaker 1: think that words have no meaning anymore. Master mister Exclusive says,
[3:05:01] Speaker 1: here's another ten for a crack. Well, thank you, I
[3:05:04] Speaker 1: really really do appreciate that. And I'm just gonna grab
[3:05:07] Speaker 1: a couple more so we don't get too backed up.
[3:05:10] Speaker 1: Patrick Myer says, turn a light on, brother, I want
[3:05:13] Speaker 1: to see if you look as silly as you sound.
[3:05:15] Speaker 1: Oh you mean the guest. Well, there's a follow up,
[3:05:19] Speaker 1: he says her her, I don't believe that. We know
[3:05:22] Speaker 1: we are trying to educate you. I know, I still
[3:05:26] Speaker 1: don't know who you're talking about. Patrick, I hope you're
[3:05:27] Speaker 1: talking about the guest. Patrick again says thank you by
[3:05:30] Speaker 1: the way for the superchat says can confirm he does
[3:05:33] Speaker 1: look as stupid as he sounds. I was really curious.
[3:05:35] Speaker 1: I'm assuming you're referring to the guest or as he
[3:05:38] Speaker 1: wouldn't be sending me all these superchats, or you just
[3:05:41] Speaker 1: hate chatting, which is fine. And Coffeetown Atheist says, all
[3:05:44] Speaker 1: this junk they say about God just sounds like they're
[3:05:47] Speaker 1: appealing to things that sound like we should understand, but
[3:05:50] Speaker 1: none of it actually means anything. This is true that
[3:05:54] Speaker 1: they keep talking about the religion like it's just obviously
[3:05:57] Speaker 1: true when it's obviously not. That's how you know you've
[3:06:01] Speaker 1: been tricked into believing something when you think it's true,
[3:06:04] Speaker 1: but you can't explain why it's true.
[3:06:07] Speaker 2: Justin, how dare you internally cretique the Bible?
[3:06:11] Speaker 1: Oh no, I shouldn't have done that. I should not
[3:06:13] Speaker 1: have done that. And I'm being told right now by
[3:06:16] Speaker 1: others that there are now screenshots of Messiah justin floating
[3:06:19] Speaker 1: around the community. It has begun. People know about the Messiah.
[3:06:25] Speaker 1: Last one from our friend Eiris, thank you for the
[3:06:27] Speaker 1: ten dollars, super says, when you die, you'll regret that.
[3:06:29] Speaker 1: Why fear getting fucked up and tortured over jokes or insults?
[3:06:34] Speaker 1: Why would a merciful God care about any mockery. Would
[3:06:37] Speaker 1: you pour lava into a mocker's eye link It wouldn't,
[3:06:41] Speaker 1: But God would, the God of this book would. He
[3:06:44] Speaker 1: says what Jesus says in Luke nineteen when he comes
[3:06:47] Speaker 1: back in the Parable, to take those who didn't want
[3:06:49] Speaker 1: him to be king over them and slaughter them in
[3:06:52] Speaker 1: my very presence. That's what he says. All right, I
[3:06:58] Speaker 1: think we've got a special especially a special co host
[3:07:01] Speaker 1: joining us.
[3:07:03] Speaker 5: Hello, Hi, Sarah, Hi.
[3:07:07] Speaker 1: You come to.
[3:07:09] Speaker 24: How's it going?
[3:07:11] Speaker 1: You know what? We're having a blast night.
[3:07:15] Speaker 24: I saw the last like five or ten minutes of
[3:07:18] Speaker 24: that dude, and I was very stressed out. That was
[3:07:20] Speaker 24: a stressful That was a stressful tie.
[3:07:24] Speaker 2: He was very antsy by the end of it.
[3:07:26] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but worked out. It's okay. He proved that
[3:07:32] Speaker 1: I was a messiah. And that's fine.
[3:07:36] Speaker 24: You looked beautiful in your in your get up, just fantastic.
[3:07:40] Speaker 1: I really appreciate that.
[3:07:41] Speaker 2: Borough. Come up, Come up a shim Doug blessed? Is
[3:07:45] Speaker 2: he who comes to the name of Doug?
[3:07:47] Speaker 1: Very good? All right, let's get our next guest. It's
[3:07:49] Speaker 1: gonna be uh licks Petricks?
[3:07:52] Speaker 5: Did I say that right? You did?
[3:07:57] Speaker 1: Is there a name or a title you would prefer
[3:07:59] Speaker 1: to be called that you.
[3:08:00] Speaker 7: Want to, you can go about my person named Barry.
[3:08:03] Speaker 1: Barry, Okay, Barry good Nmetia are at least eighteen And
[3:08:06] Speaker 1: do you believe in Godden.
[3:08:08] Speaker 5: Yes? And yes?
[3:08:10] Speaker 1: Is it a particular God or is your a.
[3:08:12] Speaker 5: God Yahweh of the Bible? In a law of the Kuran.
[3:08:19] Speaker 1: You believe in the that the Koran is true?
[3:08:23] Speaker 5: Yes?
[3:08:24] Speaker 1: Are you Christian or are you Muslim?
[3:08:27] Speaker 5: Or both kind of in between?
[3:08:30] Speaker 1: Okay, so you just don't really know yet.
[3:08:32] Speaker 5: No, I do know, but but I'm not a Christian.
[3:08:36] Speaker 22: I do believe in all the teachings of the Old
[3:08:38] Speaker 22: and New Testament that I don't believe that Jesus is God.
[3:08:42] Speaker 2: Do you believe Jesus was crucified? Yes, well, then you
[3:08:47] Speaker 2: don't believe the chrime.
[3:08:49] Speaker 22: No, if you read the Koran, if you read the Quran,
[3:08:53] Speaker 22: it'll say that the Jews did not crucify him.
[3:08:57] Speaker 5: But Yahweh crucified, Oh.
[3:09:00] Speaker 2: God, not this. I got this argument yesterday from somebody.
[3:09:04] Speaker 5: Well, then someone knows.
[3:09:05] Speaker 22: Because the religions are univocal, they just haven't came together yet.
[3:09:12] Speaker 5: And so that you'll see.
[3:09:17] Speaker 2: Here Lix lix. Do you know who Miriam is?
[3:09:25] Speaker 5: Do I know who Miriam is?
[3:09:27] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[3:09:29] Speaker 5: Miriam from where.
[3:09:33] Speaker 2: From Nazareth? Jesus is mama?
[3:09:37] Speaker 5: Yes?
[3:09:38] Speaker 2: What does the Quran say that? Who who her brother is?
[3:09:44] Speaker 5: I don't.
[3:09:45] Speaker 22: I don't have the Qoran in front of them. So
[3:09:50] Speaker 22: little details like that I don't pay a lot of
[3:09:52] Speaker 22: attention to because it doesn't matter.
[3:09:56] Speaker 5: But the way to your things.
[3:10:00] Speaker 2: About sure you want to talk about prophecy, go ahead,
[3:10:07] Speaker 2: to be sure.
[3:10:08] Speaker 1: This is our favorite topic, even though it's a a
[3:10:12] Speaker 1: rabbit trail. But go ahead, tell us about the prophecies
[3:10:15] Speaker 1: that were fulfilled them.
[3:10:17] Speaker 5: Uh, Deuteronomy eighteen.
[3:10:19] Speaker 22: But before I know, but before we talk about that,
[3:10:25] Speaker 22: I would like to revisit go.
[3:10:28] Speaker 5: Ahead, go ahead, And I'm sorry it was go ahead
[3:10:33] Speaker 5: I wanted to.
[3:10:34] Speaker 22: I would like to visit Micah five two first, because
[3:10:41] Speaker 22: I used the word alarm.
[3:10:44] Speaker 5: And I heard your definitions. But one of the one
[3:10:47] Speaker 5: of the uh, one.
[3:10:50] Speaker 22: Of the biggest parts of alarm is uh conceal Uh
[3:10:58] Speaker 22: is it something concealed in eternity?
[3:11:02] Speaker 1: It's it's an indefinite time perore.
[3:11:04] Speaker 2: You're making an etymological fallacy.
[3:11:07] Speaker 5: What's that? What is this? What are you saying is
[3:11:12] Speaker 5: an etethnological fallacy.
[3:11:16] Speaker 2: You're gonna make the claim that because the root word
[3:11:19] Speaker 2: is alam, which means to conceal, that that's exactly what
[3:11:21] Speaker 2: this must mean.
[3:11:24] Speaker 5: Well that's what. Uh the people who wrote Strong's concordance
[3:11:32] Speaker 5: heard something. What?
[3:11:34] Speaker 1: All right, So you're a nice guy, so we'll we'll
[3:11:36] Speaker 1: level with you. Okay. So the strongest Concordance is not
[3:11:39] Speaker 1: an actual lexicon of the Hebrew language. It's just a lexicon,
[3:11:43] Speaker 1: not even lexicon. It's just a concordance of how it's
[3:11:45] Speaker 1: translated in the King James Bible. Right, So the strongest
[3:11:49] Speaker 1: concordance is only really helpful for you to understand how
[3:11:52] Speaker 1: the King James Bible was translated. But we have way
[3:11:55] Speaker 1: better lexicons nowaday.
[3:11:57] Speaker 22: Okay, Well, the Briggs Stropper, the Browns Driver Briggs you mean, yes, yeah, yeah,
[3:12:05] Speaker 22: that's a much better one.
[3:12:06] Speaker 1: The updated that's there. They're a better one called the Hallett.
[3:12:12] Speaker 1: The Hebrew airmake lex kan of the Old Testament. But
[3:12:15] Speaker 1: that's expensive. The BDB is cheap, and to be honest,
[3:12:19] Speaker 1: I think it's easier to read.
[3:12:22] Speaker 22: Okay, Well, I mean I don't mind looking at all
[3:12:27] Speaker 22: of them, including Strongs. I mean, I understand that you
[3:12:31] Speaker 22: feel that Strong's is was just for the King James
[3:12:34] Speaker 22: sinochera with you.
[3:12:35] Speaker 5: I'm okay with that, but but I don't think that.
[3:12:40] Speaker 22: I don't think that if Strong's was trying to present
[3:12:43] Speaker 22: a unfair uh an unfair uh.
[3:12:52] Speaker 5: I don't know what the word is for it. But
[3:12:54] Speaker 5: if if, if, if Strong.
[3:12:57] Speaker 22: Some Cocordance is trying to back up the King James version,
[3:13:01] Speaker 22: I don't think that they would put in the word concealed,
[3:13:05] Speaker 22: because that doesn't fit in that prophety. Prophecy with Christian values,
[3:13:12] Speaker 22: for instance, they don't They think that they're trying to
[3:13:15] Speaker 22: say eternal because they're wanting to say that Jesus the
[3:13:19] Speaker 22: man was eternal, and we.
[3:13:21] Speaker 5: Know that he was not.
[3:13:24] Speaker 22: But the idea of Jesus, and if y'all will forgive me,
[3:13:29] Speaker 22: I would rather not say Jesus.
[3:13:31] Speaker 5: I'd rather use Yoshua.
[3:13:35] Speaker 22: But the idea of Yoshua is eternal.
[3:13:43] Speaker 5: And in the beginning was the word the war with
[3:13:45] Speaker 5: with God, and the world was God. But we know
[3:13:47] Speaker 5: that Jesus was not God. But the idea was eternal
[3:13:50] Speaker 5: and it got brought to life. And I want to
[3:13:53] Speaker 5: give you a quick example. We won't go to the scripture.
[3:13:55] Speaker 1: But I don't really know what we're talking about right now.
[3:13:57] Speaker 1: I thought we were talking about Michael Vayel.
[3:14:00] Speaker 22: I am sol the place, okay, But what I want
[3:14:03] Speaker 22: to do is explain to you what maka five two
[3:14:07] Speaker 22: means because that last word olom and let me and
[3:14:13] Speaker 22: tell me.
[3:14:13] Speaker 1: Did you see the two words that preceded?
[3:14:19] Speaker 5: Well, I'm looking at it. What two words are you
[3:14:22] Speaker 5: speaking about?
[3:14:24] Speaker 2: All right?
[3:14:26] Speaker 1: From the days?
[3:14:27] Speaker 24: Can I ask you real quick? You know you've got
[3:14:30] Speaker 24: some biblical scholars here that you're talking to, So what
[3:14:36] Speaker 24: are your qualifications for knowing what this passage really means
[3:14:44] Speaker 24: and understanding the language that it's written in?
[3:14:49] Speaker 5: Can I ask you a question?
[3:14:51] Speaker 24: Can you answer mine? First?
[3:14:52] Speaker 5: Yes?
[3:14:54] Speaker 11: Uh?
[3:14:54] Speaker 22: I am not a scholar. But are you telling me
[3:14:57] Speaker 22: that scholars are smart? Are you telling me that Christian
[3:15:01] Speaker 22: scholars and Islamic scholars are smart and they know what
[3:15:05] Speaker 22: they're talking about and y'all believe them.
[3:15:10] Speaker 24: I am asking about your expertise, So I'm going to
[3:15:17] Speaker 24: let you see it.
[3:15:20] Speaker 5: But if you'll just bear with me, you'll see, okay.
[3:15:23] Speaker 24: So just to be clear, then you're you don't do
[3:15:27] Speaker 24: speak this language? Are you trained in this area in
[3:15:30] Speaker 24: any way?
[3:15:30] Speaker 5: I studied religion for forty.
[3:15:32] Speaker 1: Years, But did you like, actually learn hebrews?
[3:15:37] Speaker 5: I looked at Hebrew.
[3:15:39] Speaker 22: I didn't find that it was important that I know Hebrew,
[3:15:41] Speaker 22: because it's like I don't invent the lot.
[3:15:45] Speaker 2: You know, it's the Hebrew Bible.
[3:15:47] Speaker 22: Well, I understand that there's here lexicons. I don't have
[3:15:51] Speaker 22: to learn Hebrew.
[3:15:52] Speaker 5: You trust the people who are Oh.
[3:15:54] Speaker 1: You can't just look up a word and know how
[3:15:56] Speaker 1: it's going to be used in a sentence. You have
[3:15:57] Speaker 1: to understand how compound phrases work, how they're traditionally used.
[3:16:04] Speaker 1: You can't just look up a word in a lexicon
[3:16:05] Speaker 1: and say, well, it means what I wanted to mean.
[3:16:09] Speaker 22: No, well, your face, your face, and to put it
[3:16:12] Speaker 22: to the test. Listen, if you'll let me talk. You're
[3:16:15] Speaker 22: you're fixing to put it to the test.
[3:16:17] Speaker 1: But I can't wait, all right, Yeah, show me, yeah,
[3:16:21] Speaker 1: show me how mamel alam doesn't mean from the old Dad.
[3:16:28] Speaker 22: Well, it's it is from the old days. But why
[3:16:31] Speaker 22: is the word you're sealed? I mean, can it be
[3:16:39] Speaker 22: concealed from old No?
[3:16:42] Speaker 1: Why because that's not how the word is used. This
[3:16:47] Speaker 1: word is not used to mean concealed, especially not in
[3:16:50] Speaker 1: the conjugation that it's used in.
[3:16:55] Speaker 22: Well, I mean, and I say disrespectfully justin that's that
[3:17:00] Speaker 22: is your opinion. But you know the the Brown's Driver
[3:17:05] Speaker 22: Briggs lexicon, you know they use the strong concordance.
[3:17:11] Speaker 1: No, they don't. Then give you the hold on you
[3:17:19] Speaker 1: haven't enhanced Brown Driver Briggs. That wasn't done by Brown
[3:17:23] Speaker 1: Driver and Briggs. That was done by somebody after them.
[3:17:26] Speaker 1: They did that to help people move from the strongs
[3:17:30] Speaker 1: concordance to a better lexicon. That's the only point of
[3:17:33] Speaker 1: those strongs concordance numbers in there. They're not saying that
[3:17:36] Speaker 1: the strongs concordance got anything right.
[3:17:40] Speaker 22: Right, so they if strong concordance had something wrong, they
[3:17:44] Speaker 22: should change it.
[3:17:46] Speaker 1: No. No, the goal of a lexicon is not to
[3:17:49] Speaker 1: go back to prior works or other works and try
[3:17:52] Speaker 1: to prove them wrong. Also, the original Brown Driver Briggs,
[3:17:55] Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it came out roughly the same time
[3:17:58] Speaker 1: period as the original Strong Let me actually.
[3:18:00] Speaker 20: See this is like the equivalent of, say, a physician
[3:18:15] Speaker 20: explaining to you what is wrong with your body and
[3:18:19] Speaker 20: a person pulling out an old medical textbook and pointing
[3:18:24] Speaker 20: at anatomy and saying, no.
[3:18:26] Speaker 4: I know better.
[3:18:29] Speaker 1: Yeah. So they were published like a decade or two apart.
[3:18:33] Speaker 1: The STRONGS was eighteen ninety and the BDB was nineteen
[3:18:37] Speaker 1: oh six, so they're sixteen years apart.
[3:18:41] Speaker 5: Okay, I do want to say that I'm not going
[3:18:45] Speaker 5: to pull out the.
[3:18:48] Speaker 22: Lexicon to look at that word to see if the
[3:18:50] Speaker 22: word concealed is ways on the definition of alarm. But
[3:18:58] Speaker 22: with this PROPHESI well, in this prophecy, it has been
[3:19:04] Speaker 22: from the old or from everlasting or what did you
[3:19:10] Speaker 22: or from ancient days? Is what you right on there?
[3:19:15] Speaker 22: Your translation said ancient of days. And so the reason
[3:19:24] Speaker 22: I say this and i'm and I'll get to deuter
[3:19:27] Speaker 22: Army eighteen fifteen. But with Micah too, when Abraham thought
[3:19:36] Speaker 22: the five generals and he met Michael's Adat, he says
[3:19:39] Speaker 22: he broke bread, Yes, and he broke bread with Michael's adet.
[3:19:44] Speaker 22: They sat down and had a conversationist shortly well, there's
[3:19:50] Speaker 22: things to say. But shortly after Michael's Adac, Abraham went,
[3:19:55] Speaker 22: there's the story of him going to sacrifice his son.
[3:20:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, we know the story, we all know the point.
[3:20:05] Speaker 2: Just to be clear, we're talking about everything else except for.
[3:20:09] Speaker 22: No, you don't have to agree with this, but but
[3:20:11] Speaker 22: I'm going to bring this a five K real quick,
[3:20:13] Speaker 22: because this is not why I call. And so Abraham
[3:20:17] Speaker 22: heard the story from Michael's adak about things that were
[3:20:21] Speaker 22: going to happen Michael's deck with a.
[3:20:23] Speaker 5: High priest of Yablain.
[3:20:24] Speaker 1: That's not even in.
[3:20:25] Speaker 5: Your Yes, it is uh from the.
[3:20:30] Speaker 1: Genis fourteen says nothing about a story being transmitted.
[3:20:36] Speaker 5: Well, but I know, but hold on, So did that then?
[3:20:42] Speaker 4: No?
[3:20:43] Speaker 22: But there's a reason because Michael's because what the prophecy.
[3:20:47] Speaker 5: That I'm bringing up in Deuteronomy.
[3:20:49] Speaker 22: Eighteen, I just I like to I don't want to
[3:20:52] Speaker 22: make just a single thing out of it.
[3:20:54] Speaker 5: I want to show you a pattern.
[3:20:56] Speaker 1: Licks pattern is based on something that's untrue. You said
[3:21:00] Speaker 1: there was a story that Milky the Deck gave to
[3:21:03] Speaker 1: Abraham and Jesus fourteen.
[3:21:04] Speaker 5: There's not.
[3:21:06] Speaker 22: There's things that aren't true, but you can have logical
[3:21:09] Speaker 22: reasons for them. I'm not telling you this is true.
[3:21:11] Speaker 22: We're not debating it. I'm making a point so I
[3:21:13] Speaker 22: can say it.
[3:21:15] Speaker 1: If you're going to the Bible, why would you say
[3:21:18] Speaker 1: it were?
[3:21:19] Speaker 22: But because you're going to find I'll do it real
[3:21:22] Speaker 22: quick and then we'll get over this because I don't
[3:21:24] Speaker 22: mean to say this, but there's going to be a
[3:21:26] Speaker 22: part of Doudo Enemy eighteen that we have to understand.
[3:21:30] Speaker 5: This and then we'll go on. But let me just quickly.
[3:21:33] Speaker 1: You're not going to like douter on me eighteen when
[3:21:35] Speaker 1: we get there. Do you want me just to cut
[3:21:37] Speaker 1: you off at the passage?
[3:21:37] Speaker 5: Do I say this?
[3:21:38] Speaker 22: And let's go to doud On eighteen. So this is
[3:21:41] Speaker 22: just my opinion. It's not in the scripture. But I
[3:21:44] Speaker 22: could never understand why Abraham would sacrificed his child. That's
[3:21:47] Speaker 22: against everything that God believes in. And so this is
[3:21:50] Speaker 22: what I tell you, that God told Abraham to test
[3:21:55] Speaker 22: his fate, go sacrifice your son, Isaac.
[3:21:58] Speaker 1: Did God tell Abraham that sacrificing Till was bad?
[3:22:03] Speaker 5: No, he didn't tell him that.
[3:22:04] Speaker 1: So he didn't know. Yeah, that's why he did it.
[3:22:06] Speaker 5: He told but he told him to go sacrifice as child.
[3:22:09] Speaker 1: So what people did that? Sometimes?
[3:22:12] Speaker 5: Well just remember he stopped him. I know there was
[3:22:17] Speaker 5: a ram in the thicket.
[3:22:18] Speaker 1: He didn't stop Jephtha, did he but well.
[3:22:22] Speaker 22: He no, but jept I didn't do that on God's
[3:22:24] Speaker 22: will or command on his own.
[3:22:27] Speaker 5: No, no, he didn't.
[3:22:28] Speaker 1: The Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit tell you to make
[3:22:32] Speaker 1: that vow. I know good and will that you're lying
[3:22:35] Speaker 1: right now. I know good and well that that you're
[3:22:38] Speaker 1: going to get proven wrong in about three seconds.
[3:22:41] Speaker 5: I'd love to go to that when made.
[3:22:44] Speaker 1: When Jeptha made the vow, what proceeded out?
[3:22:48] Speaker 5: God?
[3:22:49] Speaker 1: What proceeded right before that moment?
[3:22:54] Speaker 5: Uh? What preceded it?
[3:22:56] Speaker 4: Was?
[3:22:56] Speaker 5: He was wanting to defeat the amonas.
[3:22:59] Speaker 1: No, no, what event re seated it?
[3:23:01] Speaker 5: Verse twenty nine.
[3:23:03] Speaker 2: The spirit of.
[3:23:04] Speaker 1: The Lord came upon Jephtha, and he passed through Gilead
[3:23:07] Speaker 1: and Manassa, and he passed on to Mizpah of Gilead,
[3:23:11] Speaker 1: and from Vispah of Gilead, he passed on to the Ammonites.
[3:23:14] Speaker 1: And Jeptha made a vow to the Lord and said,
[3:23:16] Speaker 1: if you will give me the Ammonites into my hand,
[3:23:19] Speaker 1: then whatever comes out of my doors of my house
[3:23:21] Speaker 1: to meet me when I returned, when I'm victorious from
[3:23:25] Speaker 1: the Ammonites, shall be the lords to be offered up
[3:23:27] Speaker 1: by me as Bernard ring. Okay, So the spirit of
[3:23:30] Speaker 1: the Lord upon and then and then while Jeptha was
[3:23:36] Speaker 1: under the spirit. He made it a rash vow.
[3:23:41] Speaker 5: No, he did not.
[3:23:44] Speaker 1: This is not.
[3:23:47] Speaker 5: You're doing what you've told me not to do.
[3:23:49] Speaker 22: The Spirit of God came upon jepthad the defeat the Aminas.
[3:23:54] Speaker 22: The spirit of God didn't come on jet talk to
[3:23:56] Speaker 22: sacrifice his daughter because when.
[3:24:01] Speaker 2: When did he leave?
[3:24:02] Speaker 5: He can't When did he leave?
[3:24:07] Speaker 1: When did the spirit think?
[3:24:08] Speaker 5: Doesn't he doesn't say when.
[3:24:10] Speaker 1: He said it? Did you said it? It was there
[3:24:12] Speaker 1: only for the war?
[3:24:13] Speaker 22: No, I said the spirit of God didn't come upon
[3:24:16] Speaker 22: him to kill his daughter, because that's contrary to what
[3:24:19] Speaker 22: God teaches.
[3:24:19] Speaker 1: I didn't say that. He try to focus on the
[3:24:23] Speaker 1: words actually leaving my mouth. No, that's not true. We'll
[3:24:26] Speaker 1: go to his equal next. So he didn't. He doesn't
[3:24:29] Speaker 1: hate human sacrifice. He only hates human sacrifice to other gods.
[3:24:32] Speaker 1: In fact, we can we can cover Levitgus twenty seven.
[3:24:36] Speaker 5: That's not true.
[3:24:37] Speaker 1: So no, it is true.
[3:24:40] Speaker 5: Licks.
[3:24:41] Speaker 1: No, he hates it when you sacrifice to other gods.
[3:24:44] Speaker 1: Didn't say anything about sacrificing people to him. Is the
[3:24:47] Speaker 1: spirit of the Lord came upon Jeptha. Did he go
[3:24:49] Speaker 1: to war yet?
[3:24:49] Speaker 5: Is he?
[3:24:50] Speaker 1: Is he at war?
[3:24:50] Speaker 5: Yet who jeptha jephtah.
[3:24:55] Speaker 22: Yeah, I think he makes that vow before he goes to.
[3:25:00] Speaker 1: War, that's right. And and then yes, and did the
[3:25:02] Speaker 1: spirit of God allow him to be victorious in war?
[3:25:06] Speaker 5: Well, the spirit of God doesn't. The spirit of God.
[3:25:09] Speaker 1: Did not give him. Did God give him victory?
[3:25:15] Speaker 22: Yes, but he didn't give it because he sacrificed his daughter.
[3:25:18] Speaker 1: I never said that. I don't know why you keep
[3:25:20] Speaker 1: saying that. You need to listen to the words leaving
[3:25:22] Speaker 1: my mouth, not the words you want to leave my mouth.
[3:25:25] Speaker 1: So we'll try to say, did he make a vow?
[3:25:31] Speaker 1: Did he make a vow before or after he went
[3:25:33] Speaker 1: to war? You already said this before When did and
[3:25:37] Speaker 1: when did the spirit fall on him?
[3:25:42] Speaker 5: When did it come out of him?
[3:25:44] Speaker 1: I'm asking you when did it fall on him?
[3:25:47] Speaker 22: It doesn't say it doesn't say.
[3:25:50] Speaker 1: It does right before he made his travels, yes, that's
[3:25:53] Speaker 1: what the word sentence. So before he made his travel
[3:25:58] Speaker 1: for a war, the spirit of the work on him.
[3:26:01] Speaker 1: And then he traveled with the spirit of the Lord.
[3:26:04] Speaker 1: He all these all this traveling and these two verses
[3:26:07] Speaker 1: are under the compulsion of the spirit of the Lord.
[3:26:10] Speaker 1: And there's no break it goes from him traveling too
[3:26:14] Speaker 1: making the vow. Now, whether you think he made the
[3:26:17] Speaker 1: vow because God spirit compelled him or not is actually
[3:26:20] Speaker 1: kind of irrelevant. The reality is, if God intervened to
[3:26:24] Speaker 1: give him the war, he could have intervened to save
[3:26:27] Speaker 1: the life of the child.
[3:26:30] Speaker 5: But he didn't intervene.
[3:26:33] Speaker 1: Because he doesn't care. He doesn't care if he sacrifice
[3:26:37] Speaker 1: to him. That's what I'm saying. That should have introduced him,
[3:26:40] Speaker 1: he doesn't. Why didn't he intervene.
[3:26:45] Speaker 5: Because Jephtah has a free will.
[3:26:49] Speaker 1: No, it doesn't matter. What did he intervene in the war.
[3:26:52] Speaker 1: Did he intervene so that they would win the war?
[3:26:55] Speaker 5: Yeah, he intervened in that he.
[3:26:57] Speaker 1: Cares about the war. He cares about the but he
[3:27:00] Speaker 1: doesn't care about the Dods.
[3:27:02] Speaker 5: Yes, and that makes sense.
[3:27:04] Speaker 1: Worse, No, God will literally intervene to make sure that
[3:27:09] Speaker 1: his enemies get killed, but he won't intervene to make
[3:27:12] Speaker 1: sure his own people get murdered.
[3:27:14] Speaker 5: Well, he didn't tell jept Tod's second.
[3:27:17] Speaker 1: I don't care gep it took that. That wasn't my claim.
[3:27:21] Speaker 1: Licks that wasn't my claim. I don't know why you
[3:27:23] Speaker 1: can that.
[3:27:24] Speaker 5: I listen, I agree with you. But what I'm saying.
[3:27:27] Speaker 1: Is so the reality is God, God could have intervened,
[3:27:30] Speaker 1: couldn't he.
[3:27:32] Speaker 5: Oh, he could have done anything he could, but he didn't. Yes,
[3:27:35] Speaker 5: but he didn't.
[3:27:36] Speaker 2: Yes, that's right.
[3:27:37] Speaker 1: Why and why is that?
[3:27:40] Speaker 5: You know? Well, he could be.
[3:27:43] Speaker 22: I don't know, because I'm not I don't have the
[3:27:45] Speaker 22: mind of God, or I'm gonna play like I do.
[3:27:47] Speaker 5: But let me explain this to you.
[3:27:50] Speaker 22: Maybe God, when jep Tab was going to make that
[3:27:54] Speaker 22: burnt offering, the first one that came out of his house,
[3:27:57] Speaker 22: Gephtab was probably thinking about something else.
[3:27:59] Speaker 2: So we know.
[3:28:01] Speaker 1: That's why I said it was a rash vow. Licks
[3:28:04] Speaker 1: That's why I told you that from the beginning. He
[3:28:06] Speaker 1: made a rash vow and he follows with it, and
[3:28:09] Speaker 1: God didn't stop him because God don't give a fuck
[3:28:12] Speaker 1: about Jephu's daughter.
[3:28:14] Speaker 5: But it doesn't mean that he didn't care about his daughter.
[3:28:17] Speaker 5: Jepa didn't care.
[3:28:19] Speaker 1: He would have intervened.
[3:28:22] Speaker 5: Who who vowed his daughter? God or Jettah.
[3:28:25] Speaker 1: Jeptha And God didn't stop him. He stopped Abraham because
[3:28:29] Speaker 1: he cared about Abraham. He cared about Abraham's son. He
[3:28:33] Speaker 1: didn't care about the daughter of Jeptha. That's why he interviewed.
[3:28:36] Speaker 1: But he didn't stop being in the other.
[3:28:39] Speaker 22: Right, because he told Abraham to sacrifice his son. He
[3:28:44] Speaker 22: did not tell Jeptah to sacrifice anybody, but he did tell.
[3:28:49] Speaker 1: He didn't detail under the compulsion of he does he
[3:28:53] Speaker 1: does command child sacrifice. Have you not read, Ezekiel, Well, we'll.
[3:28:57] Speaker 5: Get to let's go but let's go to where we
[3:28:59] Speaker 5: came here or four, I'll go to I mean.
[3:29:01] Speaker 1: The one that wanted to do this, this dumb rabbit trail,
[3:29:05] Speaker 1: so that now we're on your dumb rabbit trail. So
[3:29:08] Speaker 1: we're just gonna go ahead and finish your dumb rabbit trail.
[3:29:12] Speaker 1: Ezekiel interprets the commands in Exodus as God commanding child sacrifice.
[3:29:17] Speaker 1: He says, moreover, I gave them statues that were not good.
[3:29:21] Speaker 5: What this is, Ezekiel?
[3:29:23] Speaker 1: Twenty yep, okay, twenty one, it's on the screen. I know,
[3:29:30] Speaker 1: but I have to read my scripture, right, Yeah, yeah,
[3:29:32] Speaker 1: you probably got the right translation. Minds, minds the devil's translation.
[3:29:37] Speaker 5: No, the devil's listen to the devil's wi So I
[3:29:39] Speaker 5: don't mind reading. I'll read your translation. Go ahead and
[3:29:42] Speaker 5: read it. I'm watching.
[3:29:43] Speaker 1: Yeah. Moreover, I gave them statues that were not good,
[3:29:46] Speaker 1: and ordinances by which they could not live. I defiled
[3:29:49] Speaker 1: them through their very gifts, in their offering up of
[3:29:52] Speaker 1: their firstborn, in order that I might horrify them, so
[3:29:55] Speaker 1: that they might know that I am the Lord. So,
[3:29:57] Speaker 1: according to Ezekiel, the commandment in Exodus to offer up
[3:30:01] Speaker 1: your firstborn was actual sacrifice.
[3:30:06] Speaker 22: Well, but who was now? Who was Ezekiel prophesying to?
[3:30:11] Speaker 1: It doesn't matter I was talking. He's talking about the past.
[3:30:14] Speaker 5: That's what we're talking about.
[3:30:16] Speaker 1: It doesn't matter he's proph It doesn't matter who he's
[3:30:21] Speaker 1: prophesying to. The question is what is he saying about
[3:30:24] Speaker 1: the past.
[3:30:26] Speaker 5: He wasn't prophesying to the children of Israel in Babylon.
[3:30:30] Speaker 1: That wutivity one told cares Licks. The question is they
[3:30:35] Speaker 1: did God command child sacrifice?
[3:30:39] Speaker 5: No? He has been wrong. No, it doesn't o't try this.
[3:30:45] Speaker 1: We'll try this again, Licks, We'll read it again. This
[3:30:48] Speaker 1: is God saying, this is God. I was going to,
[3:30:52] Speaker 1: old man, you're old enough to know to stop talking
[3:30:55] Speaker 1: over people. I don't want to have to meet you,
[3:30:57] Speaker 1: and I don't want to have to talk over you.
[3:30:58] Speaker 1: You're getting talked over because you talk over me. If
[3:31:01] Speaker 1: you want to have a cordial conversation, you need to
[3:31:04] Speaker 1: calm down and stop interrupting me. The minute you stopped
[3:31:07] Speaker 1: interrupting me is the minute I'll stop interrupting you. If
[3:31:10] Speaker 1: you continue to interrupt me, I will continue to interrupt you,
[3:31:13] Speaker 1: and I'll do it until you're blue in the face.
[3:31:15] Speaker 1: I've got way more energy than you. I got all night.
[3:31:18] Speaker 1: Verse twenty five. God is saying moreover, I gave them
[3:31:22] Speaker 1: statutes that were not good, and ordinances by which they
[3:31:25] Speaker 1: could not live. And what was the statute? He says,
[3:31:29] Speaker 1: I defiled them through their very gifts in their offering
[3:31:32] Speaker 1: up of their first born, in order that I might
[3:31:35] Speaker 1: horrify them, so that they may know that I am
[3:31:39] Speaker 1: the Lord. That's about the past, is it not?
[3:31:48] Speaker 5: No, he's prophesying to these people.
[3:31:51] Speaker 1: Well try that again. He's not prophesying anything. He's talking
[3:31:55] Speaker 1: about the past. These are all past tense verbs. Okay,
[3:32:02] Speaker 1: this is not a future prophecy. I gave is in
[3:32:07] Speaker 1: the past tense.
[3:32:09] Speaker 5: And I didn't say it was a prophecy.
[3:32:11] Speaker 1: You did, You just did?
[3:32:14] Speaker 22: Okay, Well, I apologize, I'm saying, okay, when he's a
[3:32:17] Speaker 22: prophet and speaks, I call it a prophecy, but it's
[3:32:21] Speaker 22: it's it's a word.
[3:32:23] Speaker 5: But he what he is saying. He is talking to.
[3:32:29] Speaker 1: Israel We know, Lix, we know who's talking to. We
[3:32:33] Speaker 1: don't care. The question is not who is he talking to.
[3:32:36] Speaker 1: The question is what is he saying? What is he
[3:32:39] Speaker 1: saying about what God did?
[3:32:41] Speaker 5: Can we make one point? First half? Some of these people.
[3:32:45] Speaker 1: Who can in the back, no one cares. We all
[3:32:50] Speaker 1: know the Israelites are in babbelod in captivity. Nobody gives
[3:32:54] Speaker 1: a shit. That means nothing to That means nothing to
[3:32:57] Speaker 1: the conversation. The question is did God command child sacrifice?
[3:33:02] Speaker 22: That's the question, Jeff, If you'll let me answer, he
[3:33:08] Speaker 22: is speaking to the people still left in Judah.
[3:33:11] Speaker 1: Never understand why you think context will help you or
[3:33:14] Speaker 1: that doesn't answer the question. He's talking about something in
[3:33:17] Speaker 1: the He's talking about something in the past. He's talking
[3:33:20] Speaker 1: about something that's already happened. That's what we're questioning right now, Lix.
[3:33:24] Speaker 1: We're asking what is he saying about the stuff that
[3:33:27] Speaker 1: already happened. We know who he's talking to, we know
[3:33:30] Speaker 1: the context. We read the Bible, more than you. We
[3:33:33] Speaker 1: don't care about the context of who's in captivity. We
[3:33:37] Speaker 1: care about what is he saying about the past? The
[3:33:40] Speaker 1: question is what is he saying in these two verses?
[3:33:44] Speaker 5: Justin this is not the past?
[3:33:45] Speaker 1: Verse one says, we're not in verse one, we're in
[3:33:48] Speaker 1: verse twenty five.
[3:33:50] Speaker 5: I know it, but we're in the You gotta be
[3:33:51] Speaker 5: in the same chatter.
[3:33:52] Speaker 1: I mean, you can't just we're in verse twenty five.
[3:33:56] Speaker 1: We want to know about what happened in the past.
[3:34:00] Speaker 5: I don't.
[3:34:01] Speaker 1: Ezekiel is talking about what happened in the past. That's
[3:34:06] Speaker 1: the question. Yes, that is a question, he says. Moreover,
[3:34:09] Speaker 1: I gave them statues. Is that future or past?
[3:34:14] Speaker 22: They gave them statues in the past. Back in, dude,
[3:34:17] Speaker 22: that's yes.
[3:34:19] Speaker 1: In the there we go finally, Lis, you found it. Okay,
[3:34:22] Speaker 1: So Ezekiel, God is speaking through Ezekiel about things he
[3:34:26] Speaker 1: already did. Yes or no? No, Okay, we'll try this again, lex'na.
[3:34:32] Speaker 1: We're gonna lex We're gonna simplify this conversation. I'm gonna
[3:34:35] Speaker 1: ask you nothing but yes or no questions, and the
[3:34:38] Speaker 1: only thing you need to say is yes or no.
[3:34:41] Speaker 1: I don't need any yapping. I don't need any preaching,
[3:34:44] Speaker 1: yes or no, is I gave them statues future tens
[3:34:49] Speaker 1: or past tense.
[3:34:56] Speaker 5: Sorry, my microphone was off. That is past tense.
[3:35:00] Speaker 1: He came out in the law. And when you use
[3:35:03] Speaker 1: words in the past tense speaking about past events, would
[3:35:08] Speaker 1: we say then that that is all about past happenings.
[3:35:13] Speaker 5: That one sentence is about a past happening.
[3:35:16] Speaker 1: Yes, what I asked you about was this one sentence,
[3:35:18] Speaker 1: thank you, okay. In this one sentence it says that
[3:35:22] Speaker 1: God did something in the past. What did he say happened?
[3:35:32] Speaker 5: I don't.
[3:35:32] Speaker 22: I mean, there's the same verse. Well, it's also in
[3:35:36] Speaker 22: verse eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve.
[3:35:38] Speaker 1: No, it's in verse twenty five.
[3:35:43] Speaker 22: Wherefore I gave him also statues that were not good
[3:35:46] Speaker 22: and judgments where that bad.
[3:35:48] Speaker 5: They should not live.
[3:35:49] Speaker 1: There we go, and those are all things that already happened. Correct,
[3:35:52] Speaker 1: Those are in the past.
[3:35:54] Speaker 5: It happened up into the present in the past.
[3:35:57] Speaker 1: Also, Ronny, and I didn't ask you about the press,
[3:36:00] Speaker 1: And I said, did this happen? Did this happen in
[3:36:02] Speaker 1: the past.
[3:36:04] Speaker 5: It did happen in the past.
[3:36:05] Speaker 1: But it's also I'm not asking you about the present
[3:36:08] Speaker 1: I'm not asking you about the present.
[3:36:10] Speaker 6: But you should.
[3:36:11] Speaker 5: That's what they're talking to is.
[3:36:13] Speaker 1: They're not talking to the present. They're talking to Israelites
[3:36:16] Speaker 1: in Babylon. We're not in Babylon. We're not Israelites.
[3:36:19] Speaker 2: Lix.
[3:36:20] Speaker 1: I've read it. I read every last word of this book.
[3:36:22] Speaker 1: That's why, that's why you need to calm down.
[3:36:25] Speaker 5: You need to.
[3:36:26] Speaker 1: Calm down and actually follow the conversation. Okay, okay, are
[3:36:30] Speaker 1: you are you ready?
[3:36:32] Speaker 5: Yes?
[3:36:32] Speaker 1: Okay. The passage says nothing about the future. The section
[3:36:38] Speaker 1: we're in is a recounting of the past, and God
[3:36:43] Speaker 1: says I gave them statutes yes or no in the past.
[3:36:48] Speaker 5: Yes, it says that.
[3:36:49] Speaker 1: Okay, it says it says they were not good. Is
[3:36:53] Speaker 1: that in the past?
[3:36:58] Speaker 5: Yes, I were in the past.
[3:36:59] Speaker 1: But you got to No, we're not doing that yet.
[3:37:02] Speaker 1: We're doing by word by word, word by word. Okay,
[3:37:08] Speaker 1: So right now this text is saying something happened in
[3:37:12] Speaker 1: the past? Correct?
[3:37:13] Speaker 5: Correct?
[3:37:14] Speaker 1: Okay? What happened? Can you read me verse twenty six
[3:37:17] Speaker 1: when it describes what happened.
[3:37:19] Speaker 5: And I polluted them in their own gifts, and that
[3:37:23] Speaker 5: they CAUs to pass through the fire. All that openeth
[3:37:27] Speaker 5: the womb, that I might make them desolate to the
[3:37:31] Speaker 5: end that they might know that I am yahah.
[3:37:35] Speaker 1: That's right. And was that something that happened in the past.
[3:37:40] Speaker 5: Yes, in every year.
[3:37:42] Speaker 1: Okay, So no, no, no, I'm not asking it when
[3:37:45] Speaker 1: they did it. I'm asking about when the commandment was given.
[3:37:49] Speaker 1: We're not no one's asking when did they practice child sacrifice.
[3:37:52] Speaker 1: We're asking when did God say the thing? So God
[3:37:55] Speaker 1: is saying I gave them commandments. Some of them were
[3:37:59] Speaker 1: not good. This is one of them that was not good,
[3:38:02] Speaker 1: which was to offer up their firstborn by passing them
[3:38:05] Speaker 1: through the fire. That child's sacrifice.
[3:38:08] Speaker 2: He did.
[3:38:09] Speaker 5: He never gave that commandments they did? He never he did?
[3:38:13] Speaker 1: Is he said he did? Right here. I defiled them
[3:38:16] Speaker 1: through their very gifts, in their offerings up of their firstborn,
[3:38:19] Speaker 1: in order that I might horrify them so that they
[3:38:21] Speaker 1: might know that I am the Lord. These are the
[3:38:24] Speaker 1: bad statutes in twenty five. These are the not good statutes.
[3:38:29] Speaker 1: This is in Exodus twice.
[3:38:33] Speaker 5: Where in Exus I'll show.
[3:38:35] Speaker 1: Y'am Exus twenty thirty said go to the house of Israel,
[3:38:41] Speaker 1: thus explored you will. Oh, sorry, that wasn't the one
[3:38:44] Speaker 1: I was looking for Exus. I thought it was gonna
[3:38:49] Speaker 1: be in twenty I'm probably wrong on that. Let me
[3:38:52] Speaker 1: find it real quick. I apologize. I thought it was
[3:38:54] Speaker 1: gonna be in twenty heame, I gotta google.
[3:39:00] Speaker 5: And I really just want to talk about good on
[3:39:02] Speaker 5: the eighteen.
[3:39:03] Speaker 1: Exus twenty two, and it is a duplicate Exodus twenty
[3:39:08] Speaker 1: two and Exodus thirteen. Ooks like I think Exodus twenty
[3:39:14] Speaker 1: two is when we want.
[3:39:22] Speaker 5: But I have to ask you did Jewish wrap o?
[3:39:25] Speaker 1: Nope, Nope, you're not saying anything. Do we read the passage?
[3:39:28] Speaker 5: Okay?
[3:39:29] Speaker 2: Okay?
[3:39:31] Speaker 1: Was it twenty two? Twenty nine? No? Why are you
[3:39:38] Speaker 1: lying in Google?
[3:39:43] Speaker 22: Mmmm?
[3:39:43] Speaker 1: We'll try thirteen?
[3:39:44] Speaker 2: Are you? Are you in Exodus or in Ezekiel?
[3:39:48] Speaker 1: Oh?
[3:39:48] Speaker 5: Did I?
[3:39:50] Speaker 1: For goodness sake?
[3:39:52] Speaker 2: There you go?
[3:39:53] Speaker 3: There?
[3:39:53] Speaker 2: I got you.
[3:39:55] Speaker 1: I'll try. I'll try to get it. No, I mean
[3:40:00] Speaker 1: it's still not the one we want. I think it
[3:40:01] Speaker 1: might be in thirteen. It's actually in there twice. And
[3:40:03] Speaker 1: I always forget which chapters. A consecration of the firstborn
[3:40:09] Speaker 1: you shall set apart for the Lord, all that opens
[3:40:12] Speaker 1: the womb, all the firstborn offspring of your livestock that
[3:40:15] Speaker 1: are mails to be the Lord's but every firstborn donkey
[3:40:17] Speaker 1: you shall redeem with the sheep. If you do not
[3:40:19] Speaker 1: redeem it, you must break its neck. Every firstborn mail
[3:40:21] Speaker 1: among your children shall be redeemed. This is not the one.
[3:40:25] Speaker 1: It's Exus thirty four. The firstborn of your donkey you
[3:40:30] Speaker 1: shall redeem with a lamb or blah blah blah blah blah,
[3:40:33] Speaker 1: all of the firstborn of your Nope, that's not the one. Well, motherfucker,
[3:40:37] Speaker 1: why can't I find it?
[3:40:39] Speaker 5: Well?
[3:40:39] Speaker 2: Can passages for.
[3:40:42] Speaker 1: The passage in Exodus where God says to give your firstborn.
[3:40:47] Speaker 4: To the Lord.
[3:41:00] Speaker 2: Let's see, you've already checked Exodus thirteen.
[3:41:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm an extra thirteen. That's what that's when you
[3:41:05] Speaker 1: actually get to redeem them. It said, if you do
[3:41:07] Speaker 1: not redeem it, you must break its neck. Every first
[3:41:09] Speaker 1: born male among your children you.
[3:41:11] Speaker 2: Shall twenty two Exodus twenty two.
[3:41:15] Speaker 1: I thought it was in twenty two. I didn't see it.
[3:41:20] Speaker 2: Your firstborn sons you shall give to me Exodus twenty two,
[3:41:23] Speaker 2: twenty nineteen thirty.
[3:41:26] Speaker 1: I thought I was there. You're might.
[3:41:28] Speaker 5: Oh.
[3:41:29] Speaker 1: I was still in Ezekiel when I was reading that
[3:41:31] Speaker 1: you shall not delay to make offerings from the fullness
[3:41:33] Speaker 1: of your harvest, and from the outflow of your presses.
[3:41:35] Speaker 1: The firstborn of your sons you shall give to me.
[3:41:38] Speaker 1: You shall do the same with your oxen and your sheep.
[3:41:40] Speaker 1: Seven days, it shall remain with its mother. On the
[3:41:42] Speaker 1: eighth day, you shall give it to me. This is
[3:41:45] Speaker 1: what Ezekiel is determining. Is God asking to offer up
[3:41:49] Speaker 1: the firstborn. So when when you go to Ezekiel twenty
[3:41:54] Speaker 1: and he says that God, that's circumcision on the I
[3:41:58] Speaker 1: didn't say. I didn't say eight. And also, donkeys and
[3:42:05] Speaker 1: oxen don't get.
[3:42:05] Speaker 5: Circumcised, No, but the males do.
[3:42:11] Speaker 1: Not donkeys and oxen, No, not donkeys.
[3:42:14] Speaker 5: But human males get circumcised.
[3:42:16] Speaker 1: They doesn't say anything about circumcision.
[3:42:19] Speaker 5: But that's what that is what happens.
[3:42:23] Speaker 1: We're not talking we're not talking about those days. We're
[3:42:26] Speaker 1: talking about Exodus twenty two, twenty nine. It says the
[3:42:29] Speaker 1: firstborn of your sons you shall give to me. Doesn't
[3:42:33] Speaker 1: say circumcise them. That's the same way, Yeah, it does.
[3:42:37] Speaker 1: That's exactly how Ezekiel is interpreting it. Ezekiel says. Ezekiel
[3:42:43] Speaker 1: says that this is a bad commandment. Ezekiel disagrees with you.
[3:42:52] Speaker 1: Ezekiel says that I gave them statutes that were not good,
[3:42:55] Speaker 1: in ordinances by which they could not live, and I
[3:42:58] Speaker 1: defiled them through their gifts, their very gifts, in offering
[3:43:01] Speaker 1: up of their firstborn, in order that I might horrify
[3:43:03] Speaker 1: them so that they might know that I am the Lord. Okay,
[3:43:09] Speaker 1: So Ezekiel thinks that Yahweh asked for child sacrifice, which
[3:43:14] Speaker 1: is in alignment with Leviticus twenty seven. When he tells
[3:43:17] Speaker 1: you not to redeem any human being that's been devoted
[3:43:21] Speaker 1: to destruction.
[3:43:23] Speaker 22: That's that's not to redeem a murder.
[3:43:28] Speaker 2: No, it's not.
[3:43:29] Speaker 1: No's wrong again anything about murder. No, it's not so
[3:43:33] Speaker 1: nothing that a person owns that has been devoted to destruction.
[3:43:36] Speaker 1: That's a harem for the Lord. Be it human or animal,
[3:43:40] Speaker 1: or inherited landholding may be sold or redeemed. Every devoted
[3:43:43] Speaker 1: thing is most holy to the Lord. No human beings
[3:43:46] Speaker 1: who have been devoted to destruction can be ransomed.
[3:43:49] Speaker 5: They shall be put the death penalty.
[3:43:52] Speaker 1: No, that's not what it means to be devoted to destruction.
[3:43:56] Speaker 5: Yes it is.
[3:43:57] Speaker 1: No, it's good to dead. No, good to death. That's
[3:44:00] Speaker 1: not that's not what devoted to destruction means.
[3:44:05] Speaker 5: Then okay, to what is devoted to destruction.
[3:44:08] Speaker 1: Then devoted to destruction is a bad rendering of the
[3:44:11] Speaker 1: Hebrew rored harem, which means to kill an entity or
[3:44:15] Speaker 1: preserve an entity and have it destroyed specifically for Yahweh,
[3:44:19] Speaker 1: because that's Yahweh's portion, right.
[3:44:23] Speaker 22: But when you look at the law, that is, you
[3:44:26] Speaker 22: cannot redeem a murderer or someone who is condemned to death.
[3:44:31] Speaker 1: That's not nothing. No, being condemned, being condemned to death
[3:44:35] Speaker 1: is not the same as devoted to destruction. They're different
[3:44:38] Speaker 1: Hebrew phrases. They're different, they're not the same.
[3:44:42] Speaker 22: That there's different, there's there's you can look at something
[3:44:46] Speaker 22: as one way and I can.
[3:44:49] Speaker 1: We know, we know what a harem is. We know
[3:44:51] Speaker 1: what a horem killing an offering is. There's no equivalent
[3:44:54] Speaker 1: to it. There's no other phrase that matches it. In
[3:44:56] Speaker 1: the Engineer East, this is used throughout the land. We
[3:44:59] Speaker 1: know what it means. And you preserve a section as
[3:45:02] Speaker 1: spoil for the lord, and you dedicate it to them
[3:45:05] Speaker 1: to your lord by destroying it. So like in the
[3:45:07] Speaker 1: Meshia Stelli in the ninth century, King Mesia records that
[3:45:10] Speaker 1: he went and attacked the town Nebo. He dedicated the
[3:45:13] Speaker 1: entire town of Nebo as a harem offering to his God,
[3:45:18] Speaker 1: and he killed every man, woman and child in that
[3:45:20] Speaker 1: town as a korrem. In Leviticus and Exodus and elsewhere,
[3:45:25] Speaker 1: especially Deuteronomy, we find God talking about korrem, about this
[3:45:29] Speaker 1: idea that there are some things. No, try again, there
[3:45:34] Speaker 1: are not amalikots.
[3:45:36] Speaker 5: That was a punishment.
[3:45:38] Speaker 1: The more you interrupt, the more wrong you sound. So
[3:45:40] Speaker 1: stop interrupting me. So a harem is anything. It's not
[3:45:45] Speaker 1: always a person. Sometimes it's a vessel, sometimes it's an animal.
[3:45:48] Speaker 1: It's something that is going to be destroyed for God,
[3:45:53] Speaker 1: not for any crime, not because they not because they like,
[3:45:57] Speaker 1: not because they broke a law of God. They're not
[3:46:00] Speaker 1: under God's law. They're not Israelites. These are entities that
[3:46:03] Speaker 1: are being destroyed as an offering to God.
[3:46:08] Speaker 25: Okay, do you mind if we go to deudarmy eighteen
[3:46:13] Speaker 25: what I came up for, because I don't think most
[3:46:18] Speaker 25: people will believe that God requires sacrifices.
[3:46:24] Speaker 5: Now you may see the ones.
[3:46:29] Speaker 1: El Ezekiel said. So we just read Ezekiel Ezekiel explicitly
[3:46:34] Speaker 1: told you the opposite. So what you're saying is you
[3:46:37] Speaker 1: don't believe, you don't believe what said.
[3:46:41] Speaker 22: I'm reading Ezekiel, and I can tell you, I mean,
[3:46:46] Speaker 22: I hear what you're saying, and I understand why you're
[3:46:48] Speaker 22: saying it.
[3:46:51] Speaker 1: For the last time. Yes, what does it mean to
[3:46:53] Speaker 1: pass your children over the fire?
[3:46:57] Speaker 5: To pass your children of the fire means a sacrifice? Okay?
[3:47:00] Speaker 1: And did God say in this passage that he told
[3:47:02] Speaker 1: them to do it?
[3:47:07] Speaker 5: I'm going to answer the question you asked for the
[3:47:09] Speaker 5: sake of begin yes or.
[3:47:11] Speaker 1: No, and the answer yes. In Ezekiel twenty, God states
[3:47:15] Speaker 1: that you know. In Ezekiel twenty God states that he
[3:47:20] Speaker 1: commanded them the pastor children through the fire, which is
[3:47:23] Speaker 1: child sacrifice, which means God commanded child sacrifice.
[3:47:27] Speaker 5: Right, But it was the remnant left, and no one.
[3:47:29] Speaker 1: Cares, No one cares, No one cares why, No one
[3:47:33] Speaker 1: cares why he did it, Lix, No one cares why
[3:47:36] Speaker 1: he did it, no one, No one asked why he
[3:47:38] Speaker 1: did it. We're asking did he do it?
[3:47:41] Speaker 5: But none of the children of Israel that Bapalon.
[3:47:44] Speaker 1: Nobody cares, nobody cares why Lix, No one cares. The
[3:47:50] Speaker 1: only question on the board is did God command child sacrifice?
[3:47:54] Speaker 1: And the answer is yes.
[3:47:57] Speaker 5: No, I don't believe he did.
[3:47:59] Speaker 1: You just said it. It left your mouth. You just
[3:48:01] Speaker 1: said that God did do it.
[3:48:04] Speaker 5: I said yes to Idolatres, he did the same one.
[3:48:08] Speaker 1: No one cares. No one cares. No one cares. That punished,
[3:48:14] Speaker 1: No one cares. We're not asking does he do it
[3:48:17] Speaker 1: for everybody? We asked you? Did he do it at all?
[3:48:21] Speaker 5: Okay? Can we go to Deuteronomy eighteen and no?
[3:48:23] Speaker 1: Not until you're ready to be honest. Did he command
[3:48:26] Speaker 1: child sacrifice? Ever?
[3:48:28] Speaker 5: Do I have to be honest?
[3:48:30] Speaker 1: Yes, you have to be honest.
[3:48:32] Speaker 5: Okay, I'm trying to be He did not command child sacrifice.
[3:48:37] Speaker 1: You are a fucking liar. You read it five times,
[3:48:41] Speaker 1: will do it for the sixth time. Moreover, I gave
[3:48:43] Speaker 1: them statutes that they were not good, ordinances by which
[3:48:46] Speaker 1: they could not live. I defiled them through their very
[3:48:49] Speaker 1: gifts in offering up their first born in order that
[3:48:51] Speaker 1: I might horrify them. Did God command them to offer
[3:48:54] Speaker 1: up their firstborn by passing through the fire? Yes? Or no?
[3:48:59] Speaker 5: Okay?
[3:49:00] Speaker 2: Yes?
[3:49:01] Speaker 1: Okay? And is passing them through the fire child sacrifice. Yes, okay,
[3:49:06] Speaker 1: So then did God command some people to do child sacrifice?
[3:49:11] Speaker 5: Yes?
[3:49:11] Speaker 1: Thank you for being honest. Finally, now what do you
[3:49:14] Speaker 1: want to say?
[3:49:15] Speaker 5: I'd love to go to do eighteen.
[3:49:25] Speaker 2: We're over here to second.
[3:49:28] Speaker 1: What do you want to read in deuteronom eighteen? You
[3:49:30] Speaker 1: want to tell me how Jesus is the prophet that
[3:49:32] Speaker 1: came out after Moses?
[3:49:34] Speaker 5: Oh? Yes, yeah.
[3:49:36] Speaker 1: Why why would you possibly believe that it's Jesus when
[3:49:38] Speaker 1: it's clearly Joshua.
[3:49:43] Speaker 22: Well I agree, but let me it's fine to you.
[3:49:47] Speaker 22: Why it's not Joshua.
[3:49:48] Speaker 1: It's a double fulfillment. It's a typology, right, I can't agree.
[3:49:53] Speaker 5: Yes, sorry, no, it's not.
[3:49:56] Speaker 24: Opposite.
[3:49:57] Speaker 5: Okay, So we'll read it.
[3:50:00] Speaker 22: And it says, Yahweh, your God will raise up a
[3:50:04] Speaker 22: prophet from among you of your brethren, lie to me
[3:50:08] Speaker 22: to him.
[3:50:08] Speaker 5: You shall listen too.
[3:50:11] Speaker 22: So it says that the Kuran, the Islam, they believe
[3:50:15] Speaker 22: it's Mohammed.
[3:50:16] Speaker 5: The Christians believe that it's Joshua, and I didn't believe.
[3:50:20] Speaker 5: The atheists believe that it's Joshua. So let me know
[3:50:23] Speaker 5: your point.
[3:50:24] Speaker 1: For you, the Jews believe it's Joshua because if you
[3:50:26] Speaker 1: just finished Deuteronomy, Joshua was the one that succeeded Moses.
[3:50:31] Speaker 5: Okay, where is that in?
[3:50:36] Speaker 6: Uh?
[3:50:40] Speaker 22: Well, Deuteronomy, Uh twenty seven.
[3:50:44] Speaker 1: Should be thirty one, right, yeah, yeah, one Juderemy thirty one.
[3:50:52] Speaker 1: Joshua becomes Moses's successor. When Moses had finished speaking all
[3:50:56] Speaker 1: these words Israel, he said to them, i am now
[3:50:58] Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty years old. I'm no longer able
[3:51:01] Speaker 1: to get about, and the Lord has told me you
[3:51:03] Speaker 1: shall not cross over this Jordan. The Lord your God
[3:51:06] Speaker 1: himself shall cross over before you. He will destroy these
[3:51:09] Speaker 1: nations before you, and you shall dispossess them. Joshua also
[3:51:11] Speaker 1: will cross over before you, as the Lord promised on
[3:51:14] Speaker 1: and so forth. Where's the blessing? There we go Verse seven.
[3:51:17] Speaker 1: Then Moses summoned Joshua and said to him, in the
[3:51:19] Speaker 1: sight of all Israel, be strong and bold, for you
[3:51:22] Speaker 1: are the one who will go with this people into
[3:51:24] Speaker 1: the land that the Lord has sworn to their ancestors
[3:51:26] Speaker 1: to give them, and you will put them in possession
[3:51:29] Speaker 1: of it. It is the Lord who goes before you.
[3:51:32] Speaker 1: He will be with you. He will not fail you
[3:51:34] Speaker 1: or forsake you. Do not fear or be dismayed. Joshua
[3:51:38] Speaker 1: succeeded Moses.
[3:51:42] Speaker 5: All right, I heard you earlier say that Moses met
[3:51:47] Speaker 5: God face to face.
[3:51:50] Speaker 1: I didn't say that.
[3:51:52] Speaker 22: Well, somewhere someone said that in Exus thirty four to
[3:51:55] Speaker 22: thirty five.
[3:51:56] Speaker 5: There's a scripture.
[3:51:58] Speaker 24: We just didn't say, but someone somewhere said it.
[3:52:02] Speaker 22: And so now you are to No, okay, exends thirty
[3:52:05] Speaker 22: four thirty five.
[3:52:08] Speaker 5: You don't even read that, or are.
[3:52:10] Speaker 2: You about to make the argument that because God didn't
[3:52:12] Speaker 2: speak to Joshua face to face, it therefore he cannot
[3:52:14] Speaker 2: be the prophet like Moses.
[3:52:16] Speaker 5: No, No, it says that in thirty five. Is it
[3:52:21] Speaker 5: just tells you that.
[3:52:24] Speaker 22: And the children of visuals saw the face of Moses,
[3:52:27] Speaker 22: and then the skin of Moses face shown, and Moses
[3:52:29] Speaker 22: put the veil on his face again until he went
[3:52:31] Speaker 22: in to speak. And then you got the other pattern
[3:52:34] Speaker 22: in the Mount Exodus twenty five forty to where God
[3:52:38] Speaker 22: is speaking to Moses and he's showing him, and the
[3:52:40] Speaker 22: only thing I want to bring up in this and
[3:52:41] Speaker 22: he says, and see that you make them after their
[3:52:47] Speaker 22: pattern which has been shown to you in the man
[3:52:49] Speaker 22: doing it.
[3:52:50] Speaker 1: He's doing the exact thing Dalton that he wasn't going
[3:52:52] Speaker 1: to do. He's doing it right now.
[3:52:56] Speaker 2: What do you like, fucking prophet?
[3:52:58] Speaker 1: I don't understand while you do that.
[3:53:00] Speaker 5: Okay, well I almost show you. I read numbers thirteen sixteen.
[3:53:05] Speaker 1: This parade of Versus is crazy.
[3:53:08] Speaker 5: This will be the last one, all right.
[3:53:10] Speaker 1: Numbers thirteen sixteen. Oh, that's an explanation, not a one.
[3:53:14] Speaker 1: There we go.
[3:53:15] Speaker 11: I'm on the board.
[3:53:16] Speaker 1: Okay. You know this is going and badly for you
[3:53:20] Speaker 1: when we start looking at the actual prophecies about the Messiah.
[3:53:22] Speaker 1: These were the names of the men whom Moses sent
[3:53:25] Speaker 1: to spy out the land, and Moses changed the name
[3:53:27] Speaker 1: of Hoshea to Hoshea son of Noon to Joshua.
[3:53:32] Speaker 22: Yes, so, well, Moses saw the pattern of things to come,
[3:53:39] Speaker 22: just like Abraham saw the pattern of things to come
[3:53:41] Speaker 22: with michaelsa Dad. And Moses name that prophet Joshua, which
[3:53:47] Speaker 22: is Jesus's name, Joshua.
[3:53:50] Speaker 1: He named it Joshua because it means yahweh saves veru.
[3:53:54] Speaker 2: Yeah, they were just introduced. They were just introducing the
[3:53:57] Speaker 2: theophoric element to the name Elshue.
[3:54:00] Speaker 22: Okay, so, but Joshua's name with Joseiah that was his
[3:54:06] Speaker 22: original name was.
[3:54:09] Speaker 1: Yes, but so what.
[3:54:11] Speaker 22: The Messiah's name is Joshua wrong and that is wrong
[3:54:16] Speaker 22: against that is who Moses prophesied, and.
[3:54:20] Speaker 1: You're still wrong most Did you mention didn't say anything
[3:54:24] Speaker 1: about a Messiah?
[3:54:26] Speaker 5: Yes, he said the prophet to come like me.
[3:54:28] Speaker 1: Did he say Messiah, Well.
[3:54:32] Speaker 5: You said the Jewish rabbis take that is Deuteronomy. They
[3:54:37] Speaker 5: take that.
[3:54:37] Speaker 1: Did he say Messiah, well.
[3:54:42] Speaker 5: He's it's crazy.
[3:54:44] Speaker 1: It's that you're getting up here in line. Just say
[3:54:46] Speaker 1: yes or no. Did he say Messiah? Okay? Did he
[3:54:50] Speaker 1: say Messiah? Look, this is why people don't like talking
[3:54:54] Speaker 1: to you. I can tell in real life people don't
[3:54:55] Speaker 1: like talking to you because you won't answer. You won't
[3:54:57] Speaker 1: answer questions, but you know the answers to them. Did
[3:55:00] Speaker 1: Moses Messiah lix I have more energy than you. I
[3:55:08] Speaker 1: will make you say it. You'll never wear me out.
[3:55:11] Speaker 1: I'm a forty one year old with ADHD. You'll never
[3:55:13] Speaker 1: do it. Just answer the question.
[3:55:17] Speaker 5: Well, you read it yourself. It's at the bottom of eighteen.
[3:55:21] Speaker 1: Did Moses say anything about the Messiah?
[3:55:28] Speaker 5: Yes?
[3:55:29] Speaker 1: Where show me the passage he mentions a Messiah?
[3:55:32] Speaker 9: Eighteen?
[3:55:33] Speaker 1: I will raise that from your brethren lie. You lie
[3:55:38] Speaker 1: like a rug old.
[3:55:40] Speaker 5: I will raise him up a problem.
[3:55:42] Speaker 1: Why are you up here lying? Did he say Messiah?
[3:55:45] Speaker 1: Did he say Messiah? Where?
[3:55:50] Speaker 4: What do you?
[3:55:51] Speaker 1: I'll make you a deal, Lix, you show me. You
[3:55:54] Speaker 1: show me the word messiahs to this passage, and I'll
[3:55:56] Speaker 1: give you one hundred bucks right now. I don't know
[3:55:58] Speaker 1: if you have venmo, I'll give it you right now.
[3:56:01] Speaker 5: I don't want your mind.
[3:56:02] Speaker 1: Show me the word Messiah in this passage.
[3:56:05] Speaker 5: Okay, listen, I'm fixing.
[3:56:06] Speaker 1: To you're not lying? Why do you because you're lying
[3:56:13] Speaker 1: to me? Stop lying to my face. Licks, I'm asking
[3:56:17] Speaker 1: you to show me the word Messiah. Where does the
[3:56:21] Speaker 1: word Messiah show up? Here?
[3:56:24] Speaker 5: And this shall come that whoever will not locking fix?
[3:56:28] Speaker 1: I'm stopping you every time, every time.
[3:56:33] Speaker 5: You can read nineteen?
[3:56:34] Speaker 1: Does the word Messiah show up in verse nineteen? Does
[3:56:39] Speaker 1: listen the definition I have more energy than you do,
[3:56:44] Speaker 1: You'll never win. Does the word Messiah show up?
[3:56:50] Speaker 5: Put it to the task.
[3:56:51] Speaker 1: Does the word Messiah show up?
[3:56:54] Speaker 5: Let me read it and we'll see.
[3:56:55] Speaker 1: No, Lex, I know the answer. I'm waiting for you
[3:56:58] Speaker 1: to be honest. Does the word Messiah show.
[3:57:00] Speaker 5: Up the description of Massiah shows up.
[3:57:03] Speaker 1: No, it doesn't. The description of a prophet shows up.
[3:57:06] Speaker 1: We'll try again. Does the Messiah show up?
[3:57:12] Speaker 5: Look at nineteen and it's.
[3:57:15] Speaker 1: You'll never I'm talking over you know, and can hear you?
[3:57:17] Speaker 1: You're never gonna win this fight. Just answer the fucking question.
[3:57:20] Speaker 1: Does the word messiah show up?
[3:57:23] Speaker 5: No, But that doesn't prove your point.
[3:57:24] Speaker 1: There you go, thank you. My point is that Moses
[3:57:28] Speaker 1: anything about a Messiah. He said something about a prophet,
[3:57:31] Speaker 1: not a messiah. So this is not even this not
[3:57:33] Speaker 1: even a passage. You can you can say it over
[3:57:37] Speaker 1: and over again all you want, LIX is not a
[3:57:38] Speaker 1: messianic passage. You want to see an actual Messianic passage,
[3:57:42] Speaker 1: the one that actually talks about a real mis.
[3:57:45] Speaker 5: Get we can get to those. There's many of them,
[3:57:47] Speaker 5: and listen, and I'm gonna and it's going to be
[3:57:50] Speaker 5: very difficult for me to sit here tonight and go
[3:57:53] Speaker 5: over all that you have waiting.
[3:57:55] Speaker 1: But this is the point, because if you continue to
[3:57:57] Speaker 1: lie to me and evade easy question, and it'll take
[3:58:00] Speaker 1: all night. This could be a ten minute conversation if
[3:58:03] Speaker 1: you would stop being a coward and answer direct questions
[3:58:06] Speaker 1: with direct answers. Are you willing to do that?
[3:58:10] Speaker 5: I will if you are. I'm asking you to read
[3:58:12] Speaker 5: nineteen and tell me that's not the.
[3:58:13] Speaker 1: I've read it a hundred times, and no, it's not
[3:58:16] Speaker 1: the definition of the time, just as anyone who we've
[3:58:19] Speaker 1: read it a hundred times, anyone who's just I'm reading
[3:58:24] Speaker 1: it right now. Stop fucking talking. Anyone who does not
[3:58:27] Speaker 1: heed the words of that prophet shall speak in my name,
[3:58:32] Speaker 1: I myself will hold accountable. Does it say Messiah or prophet?
[3:58:38] Speaker 5: Prophet?
[3:58:39] Speaker 1: Okay, what's the next verse?
[3:58:40] Speaker 5: Say?
[3:58:41] Speaker 1: What's the next what's the next verdict? What's what's the next?
[3:58:44] Speaker 1: Stop talking? Licks what's the next question?
[3:58:47] Speaker 5: The prophet?
[3:58:48] Speaker 1: Stop talking? What's the next verse?
[3:58:50] Speaker 11: Say?
[3:58:54] Speaker 22: But the prophet that shall speak a word arrogantly in
[3:58:57] Speaker 22: my name, which I have not commanded him to, or
[3:59:00] Speaker 22: that she'll speak in the name of other gods, that
[3:59:03] Speaker 22: same prophets shall die.
[3:59:05] Speaker 1: Okay, fantastic. So this is about a prophet, isn't it.
[3:59:11] Speaker 5: Yeah, this is about a prophet? Yes, Oh yeah.
[3:59:13] Speaker 1: The whole passage is about a fucking prophit, isn't it.
[3:59:16] Speaker 1: That's why he gives you commands as to what to
[3:59:19] Speaker 1: do to test profits. He says, to test a prophet.
[3:59:23] Speaker 1: And if the licks, why are you talking over me?
[3:59:25] Speaker 1: This is why I interrupt you. This is why I
[3:59:27] Speaker 1: overtalk you. If you can't be old enough to not
[3:59:31] Speaker 1: talk over me, I'll never stop talking over you. I'll
[3:59:33] Speaker 1: do it twice as much, and I'll do it louder
[3:59:35] Speaker 1: than you. Nothing in this passage I'm doing it. I'm
[3:59:39] Speaker 1: gonna talk over you right now, licks every time. Nothing
[3:59:42] Speaker 1: in this passage mentions a messiah. Not a single word
[3:59:45] Speaker 1: about a messiah here. This is about a prophet. He
[3:59:48] Speaker 1: gives you parameters for how to test profits. This is
[3:59:52] Speaker 1: about profits. Nothing in here about a messiah.
[3:59:57] Speaker 22: Okay, when you study for twenty years and you were
[4:00:00] Speaker 22: an Old Testament scholar, are you telling me that that verse,
[4:00:04] Speaker 22: that chapter eighteen, what we're reading is not a well
[4:00:08] Speaker 22: known by most all religious scholars, that that is either
[4:00:12] Speaker 22: talking about Mohammed Joshua or Joshua the Messiah.
[4:00:17] Speaker 5: It was one of those, Okay.
[4:00:20] Speaker 22: But Joshua when he went the very minute that he
[4:00:23] Speaker 22: went in to Jordan, he disobeyed God's command. He did
[4:00:28] Speaker 22: not kill all the Canaanites. He made them slaves and
[4:00:31] Speaker 22: he and that is not a.
[4:00:32] Speaker 5: Prophet like Moses. Joshua did not do God's will.
[4:00:37] Speaker 2: Joshua. Joshua. Joshua split the split the Jordan River in
[4:00:43] Speaker 2: the same way that Moses split the Red Sea. Joshua
[4:00:46] Speaker 2: inspies out ahead of them, just like Moses did. You
[4:00:50] Speaker 2: always said to Joshua, I will be with you, in
[4:00:52] Speaker 2: the same way he.
[4:00:53] Speaker 5: Said I will be with you. His name was Joseiah.
[4:00:57] Speaker 5: It was not jo Joshua Joshua.
[4:00:59] Speaker 1: It's used in the Texas Jesus, used in the Texas Joshua.
[4:01:05] Speaker 22: It is used to the Texas Joshua. That doesn't make
[4:01:07] Speaker 22: the true Texas.
[4:01:09] Speaker 1: My Mike Clouding, m hm, I can turn.
[4:01:11] Speaker 2: I mean, I just listed three ways in which Joshua
[4:01:15] Speaker 2: was was just like Moses, and you just said nu.
[4:01:18] Speaker 22: Uh oh, Well he's okay. So he parted the Jordan
[4:01:22] Speaker 22: River and the listen, I'm.
[4:01:26] Speaker 2: Not he sent He sent the spies ahead of them,
[4:01:29] Speaker 2: just like what Moses did. Yes, okay, you always said
[4:01:33] Speaker 2: he would be with him, just as he said Moses
[4:01:35] Speaker 2: he would be with him. Okay, they were both publicly validated. Okay,
[4:01:43] Speaker 2: they were both the leaders of the nation.
[4:01:47] Speaker 22: But was he someone that God would require of if
[4:01:52] Speaker 22: if if people did not obey the words which he spoke, and.
[4:01:58] Speaker 5: Did he require of him? Yeah, but his name was Joseiah.
[4:02:04] Speaker 2: Yes, josh his name was Joshua. He wasn't called Joseah
[4:02:07] Speaker 2: for a long time.
[4:02:08] Speaker 1: At this point God called him Josha.
[4:02:11] Speaker 5: His name is not Joshua.
[4:02:12] Speaker 1: God called him Joshua.
[4:02:15] Speaker 5: God called him Joshua.
[4:02:16] Speaker 1: No, so his name was Joshua. Oh, So Deuteronomy is
[4:02:22] Speaker 1: lying about God's.
[4:02:22] Speaker 2: Words Joshua chapter one versus one. After the death of Moses,
[4:02:27] Speaker 2: the servant of the Lord. The Lord said to Joshua,
[4:02:31] Speaker 2: the sun of noon Moses is minister Moses Minster is dead.
[4:02:36] Speaker 2: He called the text cause of Joshua.
[4:02:38] Speaker 1: So does God, God himself, Yes, God himself got himself
[4:02:45] Speaker 1: lick this nick, Pay attention. Pay attention to Deuteronomy thirty
[4:02:50] Speaker 1: one fourteen. God says, your time to die is near,
[4:02:54] Speaker 1: called Joshua. God called him Joshua. Sorry, sir, what he's saying.
[4:02:57] Speaker 24: I don't think. Lick sinks that the Bible is one accurate.
[4:03:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the case. He picks and chooses which party
[4:03:05] Speaker 1: likes I bet I can see.
[4:03:08] Speaker 2: Why it took you forty years to read this Licks.
[4:03:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, let's let's let's uh, let's poke on that for
[4:03:15] Speaker 1: just a second. Licks what percentage of the Bible is true?
[4:03:19] Speaker 5: Oh, there's no way to tell how much of it's true.
[4:03:22] Speaker 1: I mean more than half.
[4:03:25] Speaker 5: I would say probably more than half.
[4:03:27] Speaker 1: Yes, is thirty one fourteen true?
[4:03:37] Speaker 5: I'm thirty one fourteen. And you always said to Moses
[4:03:42] Speaker 5: the whole your day's approach, that you must die, call
[4:03:46] Speaker 5: yes Shuah and present yourself and say ya.
[4:03:49] Speaker 2: It says Yehoshua. You don't get the name Yeshua until
[4:03:53] Speaker 2: you get to Second Temple literature, like the books that
[4:03:56] Speaker 2: the Yamayah and Ezra it says Yehoshua.
[4:04:01] Speaker 5: But those are different languages. It's Joshua.
[4:04:04] Speaker 2: No.
[4:04:05] Speaker 5: In the New Testament.
[4:04:06] Speaker 1: In Hebrew, Joshua is your host.
[4:04:10] Speaker 5: I understand, but it means the same thing. It's just
[4:04:13] Speaker 5: the Hebrew, and it's the writing of the Old Testament.
[4:04:18] Speaker 1: You're the one that feels the need to pronounce these
[4:04:20] Speaker 1: names in the Hebraic manner. We're just correcting you.
[4:04:23] Speaker 5: Well, but in English pronounced Joshua.
[4:04:26] Speaker 1: Well, then just pronounce it in English and stop trying
[4:04:28] Speaker 1: to feel special.
[4:04:30] Speaker 5: Okay, Well, Joshua.
[4:04:32] Speaker 22: So that man that took the children of Israel over
[4:04:36] Speaker 22: into Jordan's name was Hoseiah.
[4:04:39] Speaker 1: Yeah, no one cares it's Joshua. So we'll try this again.
[4:04:41] Speaker 1: So in the passage we're reading in Deuteronomy, does God
[4:04:45] Speaker 1: call him Joshua?
[4:04:48] Speaker 5: Yes, the writer does.
[4:04:49] Speaker 1: Okay, I'm asking you did this passage happen? What do
[4:04:59] Speaker 1: you mean did God use the name Joshua? Yes? Or no?
[4:05:05] Speaker 5: No? Moses did?
[4:05:07] Speaker 1: Okay, So then this versus a lie.
[4:05:10] Speaker 22: Well, Moses, is this is this verse a lie?
[4:05:16] Speaker 1: Is LyX? Is this verse true?
[4:05:21] Speaker 5: Yes? The verse is true.
[4:05:23] Speaker 1: No, because you just said he didn't call him Joshua.
[4:05:27] Speaker 5: Moses named that man Joshua.
[4:05:29] Speaker 1: We'll try this again. This is very easy. This is
[4:05:32] Speaker 1: fifth grade logic. Did God say your time is near
[4:05:37] Speaker 1: called Joshua? Did God say those words?
[4:05:43] Speaker 6: Maybe?
[4:05:43] Speaker 5: I don't know what I mean.
[4:05:46] Speaker 1: We need answer, Okay, So if you don't know if
[4:05:50] Speaker 1: these words are true, then how do you know Deuteronomy
[4:05:52] Speaker 1: eighteen is true? Because because as the what I like,
[4:05:58] Speaker 1: I Likeonomy eighteen is that why this.
[4:06:01] Speaker 22: Was this was written thousands of years before the Messiah
[4:06:06] Speaker 22: was born.
[4:06:07] Speaker 1: We're not I'm asking how do you know? I'm not
[4:06:11] Speaker 1: asking about I'm not asking about the Messiah, Licks, I'm
[4:06:14] Speaker 1: going to stop you. I'm not asking about the Messiah.
[4:06:16] Speaker 1: I asked you, how do you know Deuteronomy eighteen is true?
[4:06:23] Speaker 5: I just find it to be true.
[4:06:26] Speaker 1: I find it to not be true. There you go,
[4:06:28] Speaker 1: problem solved. So Deuteronomy is untrue by your own hermineutic,
[4:06:34] Speaker 1: your own hermaeudic is I pick and choose which passages
[4:06:36] Speaker 1: I want to be true.
[4:06:38] Speaker 5: No, no, I'm not. I don't mind you.
[4:06:42] Speaker 22: But here's the thing. God didn't rot. Deuteronomy is a.
[4:06:47] Speaker 24: Measuring stick here, like, how are you going through and
[4:06:50] Speaker 24: determining which parts of the Bible are true and which
[4:06:54] Speaker 24: are poles?
[4:06:57] Speaker 5: Because everything has to line up? Or is what?
[4:07:05] Speaker 2: Well, that's the that's your problem, Licks, is you're under
[4:07:08] Speaker 2: the assumption that everything the Bible has to line up.
[4:07:11] Speaker 22: Well it does, or it's going to be uh now,
[4:07:16] Speaker 22: But this hold on a minute here, because I'm I'm
[4:07:18] Speaker 22: not going to get railroaded because I know what you're
[4:07:21] Speaker 22: going to say that I'm going to say this.
[4:07:24] Speaker 5: There, No, there's not no.
[4:07:28] Speaker 22: There are contradictions in the Bible. There are many, So
[4:07:34] Speaker 22: I don't try to line up the contradictions that don't
[4:07:38] Speaker 22: matter like a genealogy.
[4:07:40] Speaker 5: Who cares about a genealogy?
[4:07:43] Speaker 1: That the most important thing, the Messiah has to come
[4:07:45] Speaker 1: from the line of David. All the prophecies were about that.
[4:07:49] Speaker 1: That's super important.
[4:07:51] Speaker 5: No, No, hold on, yeah, hold on.
[4:07:54] Speaker 1: Did God say that the Messiah would come through that
[4:07:58] Speaker 1: the that the throne would be as I was through Solomon,
[4:08:00] Speaker 1: from the seed of David.
[4:08:05] Speaker 5: Yeah, uh, yes, I believe it does.
[4:08:09] Speaker 1: Okay, if that versus true, Theah must if that's versus Joe.
[4:08:15] Speaker 1: If that versus true, no one gives a fuck about Joseph.
[4:08:18] Speaker 1: If that prediction is true, that means the Messiah must
[4:08:22] Speaker 1: come from the line of David, not adopted into it,
[4:08:24] Speaker 1: from the actual seed of David.
[4:08:28] Speaker 5: Well, now we're going into a rabbit hole.
[4:08:33] Speaker 1: Yeah. The rabbit hole is every time you see a
[4:08:35] Speaker 1: verse you don't like, you throw it out.
[4:08:37] Speaker 5: No, I don't. I don't mind those votes verses. I'm
[4:08:40] Speaker 5: not throwing it out, but you you do.
[4:08:43] Speaker 7: You are not true?
[4:08:45] Speaker 24: Right, So Lix, you said probably more than fifty percent
[4:08:51] Speaker 24: of the Bible is true, but definitely there's a chunk
[4:08:54] Speaker 24: of it that's not true. Correct. Well, and I'm just
[4:09:03] Speaker 24: repeating your words.
[4:09:04] Speaker 22: You said that, Well, here's what I'm like, It's not true,
[4:09:07] Speaker 22: for instance, like there can be different numbers that me
[4:09:11] Speaker 22: and give and so.
[4:09:13] Speaker 24: So you were just arguing in the previous verse that
[4:09:17] Speaker 24: you weren't even sure you know Moses had written to
[4:09:20] Speaker 24: drowning me, you weren't even sure if that was correct.
[4:09:22] Speaker 24: And so it seems that you think that some of
[4:09:25] Speaker 24: the Bible is true and some of it may be
[4:09:28] Speaker 24: missing some details here and there.
[4:09:32] Speaker 5: Right, I don't think that's too far fish to sound.
[4:09:36] Speaker 24: Okay, So if some of it's true but some of
[4:09:39] Speaker 24: it is incorrect, what we're trying to get at is
[4:09:43] Speaker 24: how are you deciding which parts are correct and which
[4:09:49] Speaker 24: parts maybe have the details wrong?
[4:09:54] Speaker 5: Okay, you know there's a possibility I could have details wrong.
[4:09:58] Speaker 24: Okay. So then if if you're looking at this document
[4:10:02] Speaker 24: and this is a language you don't speak in its origin,
[4:10:08] Speaker 24: and you don't know which details in this text are
[4:10:12] Speaker 24: true and which ones are false, how do you know
[4:10:17] Speaker 24: how to trust any of this document?
[4:10:21] Speaker 22: Well, when y'all were born, y'all were not given the
[4:10:27] Speaker 22: scholarly things that you have accomplished.
[4:10:29] Speaker 5: Y'all have to go long time.
[4:10:31] Speaker 1: I'll never she has a specific answer. Are you going
[4:10:34] Speaker 1: to give her the answer. We're not asking you for
[4:10:37] Speaker 1: a story.
[4:10:38] Speaker 5: I'm determined.
[4:10:40] Speaker 1: How do you do it the way y'all did it?
[4:10:42] Speaker 5: I was someone I was taught by someone who studied
[4:10:47] Speaker 5: it and knew it. Y'all didn't know.
[4:10:50] Speaker 24: I'm sorry, I just want to on that point. Do
[4:10:53] Speaker 24: you mean someone studied it and they told you what
[4:10:57] Speaker 24: they believed, or that you acquired the to study yourself?
[4:11:02] Speaker 24: Like you know, when I was in high school, I
[4:11:06] Speaker 24: took a high school biology class, and so sure, like
[4:11:09] Speaker 24: my teacher taught me things. But then I went on
[4:11:14] Speaker 24: and got a PhD in physiology, and now I understand
[4:11:17] Speaker 24: how to conduct research myself so that I know how
[4:11:22] Speaker 24: to use the scientific method to arrive at logical and
[4:11:26] Speaker 24: empirical conclusions. So I'm asking, are you just trusting one
[4:11:31] Speaker 24: person who or a group of small group of people
[4:11:35] Speaker 24: who are telling you information, or do you have a
[4:11:39] Speaker 24: skill set in which you can evaluate evidence yourself and
[4:11:45] Speaker 24: use either logic or empiricism to get to a correct conclusion.
[4:11:59] Speaker 22: That's one of those lesson is that no matter what
[4:12:01] Speaker 22: answer I give you, it's going to be the wrong one.
[4:12:03] Speaker 1: We want the honest answer.
[4:12:06] Speaker 24: You could just tell me the truth and we can
[4:12:08] Speaker 24: go from there.
[4:12:11] Speaker 1: Somebody hedge so many answers, just say the true thing.
[4:12:15] Speaker 5: You've got to understand who I'm talking. Y'all are not
[4:12:17] Speaker 5: dumb people. Y'all are smart people, and y'all been listening
[4:12:21] Speaker 5: to you for a while.
[4:12:22] Speaker 1: Then the only reasoning to us, that's why this conversation
[4:12:27] Speaker 1: is the way it is. Stop lying and gaslighting and
[4:12:30] Speaker 1: is give Sarah the answer. What's the ants?
[4:12:33] Speaker 5: Sarah? If you don't mind, will you ask me that again?
[4:12:37] Speaker 5: Because I got tone off.
[4:12:38] Speaker 24: Just yeah, no problem. So what I'm asking is what
[4:12:43] Speaker 24: is your skill set for getting to the truth. So
[4:12:48] Speaker 24: I can appreciate that maybe you have some trusted teachers,
[4:12:52] Speaker 24: but I'm asking have you individually studied and maybe gathered
[4:12:58] Speaker 24: the tools to actually evaluate this evidence yourself.
[4:13:03] Speaker 5: I have studied myself. I do not have teachers. I
[4:13:08] Speaker 5: have books.
[4:13:10] Speaker 22: I've searched it since I was twenty three and now
[4:13:14] Speaker 22: I'm sixty three, so I have for forty years. I
[4:13:18] Speaker 22: have searched these things out myself because just like y'all,
[4:13:23] Speaker 22: I was in the church and I knew this was
[4:13:26] Speaker 22: all lies, and so I either had to search this
[4:13:29] Speaker 22: out myself or become like y'all and be an atheist
[4:13:33] Speaker 22: because what is out there in religion is so deceptive.
[4:13:38] Speaker 24: Okay, So then when you are searching, like I can
[4:13:41] Speaker 24: appreciate that. So when you are searching yourself, you will
[4:13:47] Speaker 24: probably find books from people who say this thing is true,
[4:13:50] Speaker 24: or this thing is true, or this thing is true.
[4:13:53] Speaker 24: How are you even deciding what to read? And how
[4:13:56] Speaker 24: do you decide which scholars are correct?
[4:14:04] Speaker 5: Well, I don't.
[4:14:08] Speaker 22: It's not my habit to believe a scholar because every
[4:14:12] Speaker 22: time I've read.
[4:14:13] Speaker 5: A scholar, they have led me astray.
[4:14:16] Speaker 6: So how do you know.
[4:14:18] Speaker 24: That they've led you astray? What does that mean?
[4:14:22] Speaker 22: Well, because I've I've talked to Jewish scholars, I've talked
[4:14:26] Speaker 22: to Christian scholars. Now I have not talked to Islamic scholars,
[4:14:29] Speaker 22: but I've listened to Islamic scholars.
[4:14:32] Speaker 5: And so when you get into Judaism, y'ap in through it.
[4:14:36] Speaker 5: I don't have to say maybe I was.
[4:14:41] Speaker 2: Maybe you need to start to get some non confessional
[4:14:44] Speaker 2: Maybe you need to start to get some non confessional scholars.
[4:14:47] Speaker 1: Maybe you should listen to the question being asked you.
[4:14:49] Speaker 1: How does it answer question?
[4:14:52] Speaker 5: It's I did I answer a question? I says, I
[4:14:55] Speaker 5: did this. I have not had teachers the teachers?
[4:15:00] Speaker 11: Is that?
[4:15:00] Speaker 5: Where did I do this on my own? Or did
[4:15:02] Speaker 5: I have teachers?
[4:15:03] Speaker 24: So I was asking you when you're reading the books
[4:15:06] Speaker 24: that you're reading the research are doing on your own?
[4:15:09] Speaker 24: I asked you, how do you know which books to read?
[4:15:15] Speaker 5: I don't know which books are true and error. It's
[4:15:20] Speaker 5: it's trial and era.
[4:15:21] Speaker 7: Okay.
[4:15:24] Speaker 24: So the problem with that is that is going to
[4:15:28] Speaker 24: really put you at risk for confirmation bias. So you're
[4:15:33] Speaker 24: going to read one thing and if it doesn't resonate
[4:15:36] Speaker 24: with what you already believe, then you are like to
[4:15:40] Speaker 24: throw it aside and say, I don't that doesn't feel
[4:15:43] Speaker 24: right to me. And when you pick up something that
[4:15:46] Speaker 24: does confirm what you think is probably correct, it's say,
[4:15:50] Speaker 24: oh yeah, this feels good, like this is this is correct?
[4:15:53] Speaker 24: If you don't have some type of metric to check
[4:15:56] Speaker 24: these books against.
[4:15:58] Speaker 5: Well here's the metric.
[4:16:00] Speaker 22: I don't care what they say. I and I and
[4:16:04] Speaker 22: I know that y'all going, this is not something you're
[4:16:07] Speaker 22: going to agree with. But when if I do read
[4:16:10] Speaker 22: a book, which I don't read that many books, or
[4:16:13] Speaker 22: I do the I read, uh the scriptures with the
[4:16:20] Speaker 22: lexicons Greek from the Testaments, and I do use strongs,
[4:16:23] Speaker 22: and I used the browns, Gras and driver or whatever
[4:16:26] Speaker 22: it's called.
[4:16:27] Speaker 5: And then I've got another couple of Greek lexicons. And
[4:16:30] Speaker 5: then I used the interlinear, the inn and I.
[4:16:34] Speaker 22: And that's what I mostly read when I study, is
[4:16:37] Speaker 22: the interlinear to where you see that with.
[4:16:40] Speaker 5: The lexicons beside me. And so if I do ruin.
[4:16:43] Speaker 1: That, I wish you wouldn't do that anymore. If you
[4:16:45] Speaker 1: don't know Greek or Hebrew, you have no business tinkering
[4:16:48] Speaker 1: with lexicons.
[4:16:50] Speaker 22: But here right, But you know, but I don't know
[4:16:53] Speaker 22: Hebrew or that's the problem.
[4:16:56] Speaker 1: But you don't know how the language works. What are
[4:16:58] Speaker 1: you doing with a lexicon? It doesn't do anything for you.
[4:17:01] Speaker 1: Just the definition of a word we have, the definition
[4:17:06] Speaker 1: is in English. They translated in English.
[4:17:08] Speaker 5: Well, but no, there's so many translations.
[4:17:12] Speaker 22: Uh, you know, there's there's translation the points.
[4:17:17] Speaker 24: If you want to say, oh gosh, there's so many translations,
[4:17:20] Speaker 24: how do I know which translation is true? I'm asking
[4:17:23] Speaker 24: I'm actually asking you that question is well, you are
[4:17:27] Speaker 24: using a way, but you're using a metric that you
[4:17:30] Speaker 24: don't know how to use. So that would be like me.
[4:17:34] Speaker 24: You know, I'm going to try and use a French
[4:17:36] Speaker 24: to English dictionary to read French. But if I don't
[4:17:40] Speaker 24: understand how the language is physically put together, I'm going
[4:17:44] Speaker 24: to get the wrong answer. And so if you are
[4:17:49] Speaker 24: not trained in this language, you are trying to do
[4:17:54] Speaker 24: this word by word, and you're going to get the
[4:17:57] Speaker 24: wrong answer.
[4:17:59] Speaker 22: Well, I heard Doug say that he speaks Hebrew, and
[4:18:03] Speaker 22: the other day I was listening he was teaching someone
[4:18:05] Speaker 22: Hebrew and he learned Hebrew from Rosetta Stone, and so,
[4:18:10] Speaker 22: and there's nothing wrong with that, There's nothing wrong. What
[4:18:19] Speaker 22: I don't the Bible guide who I don't know his name,
[4:18:23] Speaker 22: the Bible Dalton.
[4:18:25] Speaker 5: I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
[4:18:26] Speaker 22: I read Doug and those other things that you were
[4:18:28] Speaker 22: reading tonight, and I'm going, who is Doug but Dalton?
[4:18:32] Speaker 22: And so I'm not putting Dalton down because of he
[4:18:38] Speaker 22: learned Hebrew through Rosetta Stone.
[4:18:40] Speaker 2: No, I'm now learning modern Hebrew through Rosetta Stone. But
[4:18:44] Speaker 2: I learned Hebrew from Rabbis.
[4:18:52] Speaker 24: The point being licks if you really want to get
[4:18:55] Speaker 24: to the truth, learning these skills will help you get there. So,
[4:19:01] Speaker 24: if you are very concerned that the translations you have
[4:19:06] Speaker 24: might not be accurate. Then yeah, take the time to
[4:19:10] Speaker 24: learn what that Hebrew language, especially that ancient Hebrew language,
[4:19:15] Speaker 24: is like. But you aren't taking the time. Did we
[4:19:20] Speaker 24: lose him?
[4:19:21] Speaker 1: He lost him. I guess his phone better matter or something.
[4:19:25] Speaker 3: Well.
[4:19:26] Speaker 2: I learned something new about myself. I am Doug incarnate apparently.
[4:19:31] Speaker 1: I think Sarah had the elixir. He was actually listening
[4:19:36] Speaker 1: to her.
[4:19:38] Speaker 2: Yeah, that was amazing.
[4:19:40] Speaker 5: You were getting there to him.
[4:19:41] Speaker 2: You like the you were like the Lix whisperer. I
[4:19:44] Speaker 2: did learn a lot about Jeptaw today.
[4:19:49] Speaker 1: I missed the part of the Bible where he made
[4:19:51] Speaker 1: an appearance. God that you know that you expect somebody
[4:19:56] Speaker 1: to not be that obtuse after having so many years
[4:19:59] Speaker 1: of learning and interacting with people. But it's crazy that
[4:20:02] Speaker 1: if some people never learned. Let me grab a couple
[4:20:04] Speaker 1: of super chats. We'll get one more guests in here, Derek,
[4:20:06] Speaker 1: Thank you for sending out twenty count them twenty Deconstruction
[4:20:09] Speaker 1: Zone gifted memberships. Deconstruction Zone still kicking the pants out
[4:20:14] Speaker 1: of DZ debates on memberships right now? Hey who the
[4:20:17] Speaker 1: leftists though? Making it up with five DZ debate memberships.
[4:20:21] Speaker 1: Thank you very much, my friend and Derek, thank you
[4:20:23] Speaker 1: for the superchest, says, unless I've missed it, I think
[4:20:26] Speaker 1: we need We'll try this again merch and swag. It's
[4:20:29] Speaker 1: in the gift shop. To go to the gift shop
[4:20:33] Speaker 1: right now on YouTube. It's in there. There's something in
[4:20:36] Speaker 1: there that slogan does exist. If it's not, then I
[4:20:39] Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe the gift shop took it down and
[4:20:40] Speaker 1: didn't inform me. That could be something I have to
[4:20:43] Speaker 1: look into, he says. Doug, please find us worthy and
[4:20:46] Speaker 1: bless us with such gifts so we can remain rock
[4:20:48] Speaker 1: hard with our DZ drip. I do have more that
[4:20:52] Speaker 1: I'll be adding soon, like some baby paste stuff, but
[4:20:55] Speaker 1: I haven't got around to it. But we're gonna get
[4:20:58] Speaker 1: their friends. Retired bomb Tech thanking you for the twenty
[4:21:00] Speaker 1: dollars superten says, do you all think Christianity painted themselves
[4:21:03] Speaker 1: in a moral corner for their God act God's actions, Yes,
[4:21:07] Speaker 1: one hundred percent. The minute their God was out of
[4:21:11] Speaker 1: pocket and he's you can't question God. Yeah, they put
[4:21:14] Speaker 1: themselves in a huge moral corner. So it seems like
[4:21:17] Speaker 1: most of the other multi god religions, there was at
[4:21:20] Speaker 1: least one God that was a dick. Excuses, excuses when
[4:21:26] Speaker 1: you hold their feet to the fire. So this is true.
[4:21:27] Speaker 1: This is why polytheism has more explanatory power, because you
[4:21:31] Speaker 1: can have a God that's just an asshole, whereas in
[4:21:34] Speaker 1: Christianity you can't do that. There's like they try to
[4:21:37] Speaker 1: push it off on Satan, but Satan's only doing his
[4:21:39] Speaker 1: shit because God let them. Because they're like, well, God,
[4:21:41] Speaker 1: we got to blame it on Satan, but like Satan
[4:21:44] Speaker 1: can't do so unless God tells them to do it.
[4:21:46] Speaker 1: So it's just really weird. They should just well come
[4:21:48] Speaker 1: out as polytheists.
[4:21:50] Speaker 2: Well, you can't have a God who's a dick if
[4:21:52] Speaker 2: you're a Calvinist, because they're quite okay with that.
[4:21:55] Speaker 1: That's true. That's a fair point. Can Best. Good to
[4:21:58] Speaker 1: see you and I thank you for the sixty nine
[4:22:01] Speaker 1: dollars Canadian Chap, thanks so so much. Canvas is the best.
[4:22:05] Speaker 1: Thank you my friends. Crap simply holy crap. Yes, talking
[4:22:09] Speaker 1: to that gentleman was a holy crap moment. Last one
[4:22:12] Speaker 1: for now. We'll get the rest after our next guest
[4:22:15] Speaker 1: from e Money Snipe. Thank you for the twenty hours,
[4:22:18] Speaker 1: says Lys Tetris. Believes in the Christian and Muslim God.
[4:22:22] Speaker 1: He was the first person in history to have their
[4:22:24] Speaker 1: soul split and one sent the Christian hell and the
[4:22:27] Speaker 1: other sent the Muslim hell.
[4:22:31] Speaker 2: Strangely enough, what he said earlier about believing in both
[4:22:34] Speaker 2: the Koran and Christianity not the first time I heard that.
[4:22:37] Speaker 2: I heard someone else just yesterday make that same claim.
[4:22:41] Speaker 2: They were trying to use the Koran to justify the Bible,
[4:22:46] Speaker 2: and they also made the claim that Allah killed Jesus
[4:22:49] Speaker 2: on the cross based on a misinterpretation of that one
[4:22:52] Speaker 2: chronic passage.
[4:22:55] Speaker 1: Oh it's Lynx, the Phoenix has arisen.
[4:22:59] Speaker 5: No, my phone went.
[4:23:00] Speaker 22: I apologize, but I did want to say before I left,
[4:23:04] Speaker 22: I learned a lot from y'all.
[4:23:05] Speaker 5: I respect what you're saying. Uh.
[4:23:08] Speaker 22: It is with a smile on my face when these
[4:23:10] Speaker 22: Christians call up, y'all are the best. Y'all are the
[4:23:14] Speaker 22: greatest evangelists for Christianity that I can think of, because
[4:23:18] Speaker 22: y'all tear down that false religion that they believe in.
[4:23:21] Speaker 5: But I want to say thank you for the respect.
[4:23:23] Speaker 22: And I thank you for getting to hear me, and
[4:23:26] Speaker 22: I would love to engage with.
[4:23:28] Speaker 5: You at another time on these other topesies.
[4:23:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, I would look that.
[4:23:34] Speaker 22: I don't know you're going to teach me and I
[4:23:36] Speaker 22: and I won't and I do want that.
[4:23:39] Speaker 5: I will.
[4:23:40] Speaker 1: You know, we'd love to hear from you. We only
[4:23:43] Speaker 1: have like two rules around here. Rule number one. If
[4:23:46] Speaker 1: you talk over somebody, you get talked over. Rule number two,
[4:23:50] Speaker 1: answer the question. You dodge questions, it gets worse.
[4:23:55] Speaker 5: Yes, but sometimes a yes or no question is hard
[4:23:59] Speaker 5: to answer yes or no.
[4:24:00] Speaker 2: And it's not here just to ask me. I answered
[4:24:04] Speaker 2: no question.
[4:24:05] Speaker 1: Uh, Dalton, do you like mustaches?
[4:24:08] Speaker 3: Yes?
[4:24:09] Speaker 1: Oh, ship, that was easy. I don't know what happened there, Dalton.
[4:24:13] Speaker 1: Uh was Jesus a real king?
[4:24:17] Speaker 2: No?
[4:24:18] Speaker 1: No, it was easy. I don't know. They seem pretty
[4:24:20] Speaker 1: easy to us.
[4:24:22] Speaker 24: Well, it was very nice to meet you, Lix.
[4:24:25] Speaker 5: Thanks here, and I hope to return sometime.
[4:24:29] Speaker 1: But I do watch out and we at least admire
[4:24:32] Speaker 1: the amount of spirit that you were able to put
[4:24:34] Speaker 1: in the discussion you You knocked it out of the
[4:24:36] Speaker 1: park in that respect.
[4:24:38] Speaker 5: Well, listen, I appreciate it, and I do.
[4:24:41] Speaker 22: I do want to visit you when you go today
[4:24:43] Speaker 22: this channel not necessarily this thing, but I do want
[4:24:46] Speaker 22: to talk about.
[4:24:49] Speaker 5: Is God real?
[4:24:50] Speaker 3: Sure.
[4:24:51] Speaker 1: I mean that that was our topic for tonight. To
[4:24:56] Speaker 1: be clear, the topic was whether or not God is real?
[4:24:59] Speaker 1: And you you couldn't stay on track at all.
[4:25:03] Speaker 22: Okay, well maybe next time I want, I'll build stay
[4:25:08] Speaker 22: on track.
[4:25:10] Speaker 1: All right, it's good.
[4:25:12] Speaker 5: Don't have a good evening, don't have a good.
[4:25:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, I gotta go here a little after this, next guest,
[4:25:21] Speaker 1: I'm going to read super chest and leave.
[4:25:23] Speaker 5: Sarah.
[4:25:23] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us.
[4:25:25] Speaker 24: Yeah, thank you for having me with him. I did
[4:25:31] Speaker 24: just drop our latest episode, so if you want more,
[4:25:36] Speaker 24: justin come find me on YouTube because he's all over it.
[4:25:42] Speaker 1: I don't know how that happened, but Sarah's uh, Sarah's
[4:25:45] Speaker 1: awesome on our podcast. You really should check it out
[4:25:48] Speaker 1: on her channel, Leaving Faith. That's where all the episodes
[4:25:51] Speaker 1: are dropping. We've I got like a sub what do
[4:25:54] Speaker 1: you call it? Play lest here we go? Yeah, I
[4:25:58] Speaker 1: got say sub routine, but fuck, I'm not programming right now. Yes,
[4:26:06] Speaker 1: go check out Leaving Faith on YouTube and TikTok, and
[4:26:09] Speaker 1: make sure you follow our YouTube so you can follow
[4:26:12] Speaker 1: our walkthrough genesis. It's a lot of fun.
[4:26:14] Speaker 6: It is fun.
[4:26:15] Speaker 24: Yeah, you guys will like it, all right?
[4:26:18] Speaker 6: Thanks?
[4:26:19] Speaker 10: Friends, have a good night, have a great one.
[4:26:23] Speaker 2: Oh justin guess what, I am now eligible for a
[4:26:27] Speaker 2: month tisation.
[4:26:29] Speaker 1: Oh hell yeah. I told you it wouldn't take very
[4:26:31] Speaker 1: long to get the get the three thousand mark.
[4:26:34] Speaker 2: Big congrats, Just gonna fill out some stuff apparently that's
[4:26:38] Speaker 2: what's up.
[4:26:39] Speaker 1: I'm excited, all right. Well, we lost a lot of
[4:26:42] Speaker 1: people in the guest queue during our conversation with Licks,
[4:26:47] Speaker 1: which which, of course happens. I'm gonna bring in the
[4:26:51] Speaker 1: next in line on YouTube. It's funny we start our TikTok.
[4:26:55] Speaker 1: We started to night with a bunch of guests on YouTube.
[4:26:57] Speaker 1: Nobody on TikTok. Now were at the end of the
[4:26:58] Speaker 1: night and everybody coming up on TikTok and YouTube's not
[4:27:02] Speaker 1: quite so full. But Jerry, welcome in. Are you at
[4:27:05] Speaker 1: least eighteen? And do you believe in God?
[4:27:08] Speaker 6: Yes? I am at least eighteen. I do believe in God.
[4:27:11] Speaker 5: Okay.
[4:27:11] Speaker 1: And is it a particular God or a generic God?
[4:27:15] Speaker 6: Yeah? Wee?
[4:27:17] Speaker 1: So are you Jewish or Christian?
[4:27:19] Speaker 6: Christian?
[4:27:20] Speaker 1: Okay? What's the greatest evidence or argument for the Christian
[4:27:24] Speaker 1: God being real?
[4:27:27] Speaker 6: Okay? So my biggest evidence that the Christian God is
[4:27:30] Speaker 6: real is that we have a rational mind and the
[4:27:34] Speaker 6: universe is intelligible. And because the universe is intelligible and
[4:27:38] Speaker 6: you can decipher certain aspects and truths of the universe
[4:27:42] Speaker 6: with the rational mind, God exists because he created the universe.
[4:27:48] Speaker 1: Great, I'm unserta the phil Bro timer now, so we
[4:27:55] Speaker 1: can get that on the board. We'll start ten minute timer.
[4:28:01] Speaker 1: They go, let me recite, reset it, and restart it.
[4:28:05] Speaker 1: There you go, filbroal timers starting. All right, give me
[4:28:08] Speaker 1: a premise number one of your precept argument.
[4:28:13] Speaker 6: So if everything was by random chance and there was
[4:28:15] Speaker 6: no God, that's we cannot do.
[4:28:19] Speaker 1: That's already too much for one premise. Try again.
[4:28:25] Speaker 6: Okay, the universe is intelligible.
[4:28:27] Speaker 1: Okay, Premise number one is the uni is intelligible? Right?
[4:28:36] Speaker 5: Yes, what is it?
[4:28:36] Speaker 1: What does intelligible mean?
[4:28:39] Speaker 6: You're able to rational? Not rationalize? Some I don't have
[4:28:47] Speaker 6: a necessary definition. I know that it means that you
[4:28:51] Speaker 6: can't come to.
[4:28:52] Speaker 1: Well, I have to figure it out before we can
[4:28:55] Speaker 1: move forward.
[4:28:57] Speaker 6: Right, I would I would say you can use math
[4:29:00] Speaker 6: to figure out what needs to be done or how.
[4:29:03] Speaker 1: Much to you mean logical?
[4:29:07] Speaker 6: Logical? Yes?
[4:29:08] Speaker 1: Okay, so we would say that the universe is logical,
[4:29:13] Speaker 1: then yes, okay, next one, we have.
[4:29:23] Speaker 6: On one second, consciousness.
[4:29:35] Speaker 1: I can't know what I'm mised by that. Right, we
[4:29:36] Speaker 1: have consciousness, Yeah, I think we agree. What do you
[4:29:39] Speaker 1: think consciousness is?
[4:29:45] Speaker 6: I would say we think for that, I think therefore
[4:29:48] Speaker 6: I am. But I would think it more of the
[4:29:50] Speaker 6: sense of we're reading in God's image, so we're able
[4:29:53] Speaker 6: to different I know I understand that, but that's how
[4:29:59] Speaker 6: I view it.
[4:30:00] Speaker 1: Okay, So we have consciousness, which means we we think.
[4:30:05] Speaker 6: Next, we have a morality, we have a sense of
[4:30:14] Speaker 6: right and wrong, objective right.
[4:30:19] Speaker 1: Oh, objective? Oh geez. Okay, this is not a valid
[4:30:24] Speaker 1: argument at all, by the way, but can you support
[4:30:28] Speaker 1: premise number three? Because I'm willing to bid a lot
[4:30:31] Speaker 1: of money that you can't.
[4:30:35] Speaker 6: I'm pretty sure you can. You can break down my arguments,
[4:30:39] Speaker 6: but it's the belief.
[4:30:41] Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, But can you support premise tory.
[4:30:43] Speaker 6: I've only been studying for a year or so. That's
[4:30:47] Speaker 6: I'm not going to have a lot to give.
[4:30:48] Speaker 1: You on that one, right, But can you support premise three?
[4:30:55] Speaker 6: If I was to have to support permit premise the three,
[4:30:58] Speaker 6: I would say everybody believes that a child shouldn't.
[4:31:01] Speaker 1: Break and that's not true are viewed as.
[4:31:12] Speaker 6: Sorry, uh not for you.
[4:31:17] Speaker 1: You said you're a Christian, right, yes, okay, and your
[4:31:21] Speaker 1: your support is that everyone thinks that grape has.
[4:31:24] Speaker 6: Been I would say mostly everyone, because you got some out.
[4:31:28] Speaker 1: There mostly that subjective. So you've just invalidated premise three,
[4:31:34] Speaker 1: which again this is not a valid art, not a
[4:31:37] Speaker 1: valid phyllogism any ways, but you just ruined premise three.
[4:31:41] Speaker 6: No, that that's how it would be everyone but people
[4:31:46] Speaker 6: see their conscience.
[4:31:47] Speaker 1: Oh so you can read minds.
[4:31:51] Speaker 6: No, I just believe what the Bible says.
[4:31:53] Speaker 1: Well, no, that's trying to establish first, that's begging the question.
[4:31:57] Speaker 1: You have to establish this syllogism befo where you can
[4:32:00] Speaker 1: even move to the Bible.
[4:32:04] Speaker 4: Right.
[4:32:04] Speaker 6: But I'm what I'm taking, what I'm using in conjunction
[4:32:07] Speaker 6: with it is that almost everybody, And I would say
[4:32:11] Speaker 6: everybody even the person who does it knows they're wrong
[4:32:14] Speaker 6: but doesn't care.
[4:32:15] Speaker 1: May support that prove it.
[4:32:18] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[4:32:20] Speaker 6: Well, and I would say every society child the rape
[4:32:23] Speaker 6: is wrong.
[4:32:25] Speaker 1: No, that's not true. You just said the opposite of that.
[4:32:27] Speaker 1: You said mostly everybody. And it's also not true that
[4:32:31] Speaker 1: it was always wrong. Muhammad famously married a six year
[4:32:35] Speaker 1: old and nobody had a problem with it.
[4:32:37] Speaker 6: Yeah, but they rationalized it away with it being in
[4:32:40] Speaker 6: a marriage.
[4:32:41] Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. They thought that. They didn't think it
[4:32:44] Speaker 1: was grape. We think it's grape, So it doesn't matter
[4:32:47] Speaker 1: if it's in a marriage or not. Having sex with
[4:32:50] Speaker 1: a nine year old grape?
[4:32:53] Speaker 6: No, of course not.
[4:32:54] Speaker 1: Oh do you think nine year olds can consent?
[4:32:58] Speaker 5: Oh?
[4:32:58] Speaker 6: No, I touder said, sex with a nine year old?
[4:33:01] Speaker 5: Greats.
[4:33:01] Speaker 6: I'm sorry I didn't hear it here.
[4:33:03] Speaker 1: Is it grape? We have to mask our words on
[4:33:05] Speaker 1: TikTok Okay, Yes, yes, it is okay. So then did
[4:33:09] Speaker 1: Mohammad commit grape? Yes he did, okay, and his followers
[4:33:14] Speaker 1: were okay with this, right, yes, right, So that means
[4:33:17] Speaker 1: not everybody thinks that graping children is wrong, because they
[4:33:21] Speaker 1: were okay with Mohammad doing it to Aisha. And it's
[4:33:24] Speaker 1: also true in your holy book and number thirty one
[4:33:28] Speaker 1: God is perfectly okay with it. Happened to little virgin
[4:33:30] Speaker 1: girls from Midian, So this can't be a valid syllogism.
[4:33:36] Speaker 1: You gotta try something else.
[4:33:40] Speaker 6: Number thirty one, right, he said, Oh boy, he's.
[4:33:43] Speaker 1: Never read number thirty one. Yet all right, there we go,
[4:33:47] Speaker 1: here we go.
[4:33:49] Speaker 6: I gotta get specific specific wordings on it or die.
[4:33:54] Speaker 6: What was it? Because from what you were talking to
[4:33:58] Speaker 6: with the last gentlemen with about easy, you know I
[4:34:00] Speaker 6: don't agree that that God commanded.
[4:34:03] Speaker 2: You don't want to be wrong.
[4:34:05] Speaker 1: If you were paying attention, you know you're wrong. Nobody
[4:34:09] Speaker 1: is dumb enough to read those words and say that
[4:34:11] Speaker 1: those words don't mean what those words mean. God said,
[4:34:15] Speaker 1: I commanded them things that they couldn't follow. They were
[4:34:18] Speaker 1: bad statutes, and part of that was to pass your
[4:34:21] Speaker 1: children through the fire. This is what it says.
[4:34:23] Speaker 6: Have different translations, saying I give them up and I
[4:34:26] Speaker 6: give them.
[4:34:28] Speaker 1: Passing through the fire. It uses the verb the uses
[4:34:32] Speaker 1: the verb. It uses the verb of r, which means
[4:34:36] Speaker 1: to pass through, passover.
[4:34:37] Speaker 6: Yes, yes, if you go five verses down and and
[4:34:41] Speaker 6: and verse thirty, he says therefore say, therefore, says Lord God,
[4:34:50] Speaker 6: are you defiling yourselves in the manner of your father's
[4:34:53] Speaker 6: and committing Harley tree according to their abominations?
[4:34:57] Speaker 1: For when is not child sacrifice?
[4:35:00] Speaker 6: Hold on, that's not again, But when you offer your
[4:35:03] Speaker 6: gifts and make your sons pass through the fire, You
[4:35:05] Speaker 6: defile yourselves with all your idols even to this day.
[4:35:07] Speaker 6: So so shall I be inquired for you?
[4:35:10] Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, Yes, offering our patrol them through the fire
[4:35:13] Speaker 1: defiles them, and God commanded them to do it.
[4:35:16] Speaker 6: Leave them over to their sins, and that's was there.
[4:35:19] Speaker 1: No, he gave them statutes.
[4:35:22] Speaker 6: No, No, we'll try.
[4:35:23] Speaker 5: To say where.
[4:35:26] Speaker 1: Jerry. Jerry stopped lying to me. I'm gonna read it
[4:35:28] Speaker 1: for the fifteenth time tonight, says Moreover, I gave them statue.
[4:35:33] Speaker 1: What is a fucking statue?
[4:35:35] Speaker 6: If the new king James version?
[4:35:37] Speaker 1: What is the statute? Jerry?
[4:35:39] Speaker 6: Okay, it's that's that should be lost?
[4:35:42] Speaker 1: Okay, it's a commandment or a law or something they
[4:35:44] Speaker 1: need to follow.
[4:35:45] Speaker 2: Okay?
[4:35:46] Speaker 1: Was was all of them good? Or were were all
[4:35:49] Speaker 1: of them good?
[4:35:51] Speaker 6: Okay? Before we get there, can I put it?
[4:35:53] Speaker 11: Yes?
[4:35:53] Speaker 1: Yes or no? No? Yes or no? We're all of
[4:35:56] Speaker 1: the statutes good?
[4:35:58] Speaker 2: No?
[4:35:59] Speaker 1: Okay? And which ones did God give that were not good?
[4:36:03] Speaker 6: I gave you an answer.
[4:36:05] Speaker 1: No, I'm still waiting for the conclusion.
[4:36:08] Speaker 6: Which statue did God also gave them up two statutes
[4:36:13] Speaker 6: that were not good.
[4:36:14] Speaker 1: I'm asking you which statue, which statute is not good? James,
[4:36:20] Speaker 1: and the new King James is lying to you, And
[4:36:23] Speaker 1: I'm asking you a different question, which is what statute
[4:36:26] Speaker 1: is not good?
[4:36:29] Speaker 6: What statue would not be good? Yeah, it would just
[4:36:32] Speaker 6: be giving them up to sin.
[4:36:33] Speaker 1: No tune in verse twenty six, and.
[4:36:39] Speaker 6: I and I pronounced them unclean because of their ritual gifts,
[4:36:43] Speaker 6: and that they caused all their firstborns to pass through
[4:36:45] Speaker 6: the fire.
[4:36:46] Speaker 1: That's right, that's the statute that was not good. And
[4:36:51] Speaker 1: did God give? And did God give it? And did
[4:36:55] Speaker 1: God give it? And did God give the statue?
[4:37:00] Speaker 6: He gave them up to their statues? No, Hebrew, No,
[4:37:06] Speaker 6: it's in my text.
[4:37:08] Speaker 1: Is in the New King James. New King James is
[4:37:10] Speaker 1: lying to you. We'll just show you out the gum
[4:37:13] Speaker 1: And why people read these passages and think that the
[4:37:17] Speaker 1: their English translation is crazy.
[4:37:20] Speaker 2: To me, the gum Ani Natati m cochim and also
[4:37:26] Speaker 2: I and also the gum i ani Natati gave lahem
[4:37:31] Speaker 2: to them Johim laws. I gave to them laws. It
[4:37:35] Speaker 2: didn't say I gave them up to laws.
[4:37:38] Speaker 6: No said gave up.
[4:37:39] Speaker 1: No. Natati doesn't mean to give up, It means to give.
[4:37:46] Speaker 1: This is the verb natan natan means to give. It
[4:37:48] Speaker 1: doesn't mean to give. Why it doesn't mean to give
[4:37:51] Speaker 1: over because this is King James next to it. We
[4:37:54] Speaker 1: don't read King James horseship. We only care about this
[4:37:57] Speaker 1: word right here in Hebrew Natati. That's the conjugation of naton.
[4:38:01] Speaker 1: It means to give. And what did he give? He
[4:38:05] Speaker 1: gave them statutes, He gave, he gave, He gave them
[4:38:10] Speaker 1: to them. This is the pronoun right there, to them.
[4:38:14] Speaker 1: He gave, he gave to them.
[4:38:18] Speaker 6: No, he gave up.
[4:38:19] Speaker 1: I mean you can you can say, we'll try this,
[4:38:22] Speaker 1: We'll try this again. Stop stop talking for five seconds, Jerry.
[4:38:25] Speaker 1: You have two people on the screen who actually know
[4:38:27] Speaker 1: how Hebrew works. There's this up, isn't in there. Natan
[4:38:31] Speaker 1: never means to give up. It means to give. What
[4:38:34] Speaker 1: is being given, something's being given to them. Left him
[4:38:39] Speaker 1: means to them, give to them statutes. The King James
[4:38:48] Speaker 1: purposely mistranslated this the King James. No, I'm asking you
[4:38:53] Speaker 1: to trust a better Bible translation than the King James.
[4:38:57] Speaker 1: Read it in any other translation than the King James,
[4:39:00] Speaker 1: and you'll find that it follows our translation.
[4:39:03] Speaker 6: I agree that that it will. Yeah, I have another
[4:39:05] Speaker 6: Bible here.
[4:39:06] Speaker 1: Okay, the King James is horseshit. Stop reading it.
[4:39:10] Speaker 6: As I said, the new King James version, not the.
[4:39:12] Speaker 1: King It's just as bad. Actually it's not as bad.
[4:39:19] Speaker 1: That's a lie there. The new King James will never
[4:39:21] Speaker 1: be as bad as the original King James.
[4:39:27] Speaker 6: I don't agree.
[4:39:28] Speaker 1: But either way, the King James intentionally translated.
[4:39:31] Speaker 6: This verse thirty and thirty one. You can still say
[4:39:35] Speaker 6: that it means giving up because they're following.
[4:39:38] Speaker 1: No, there's nothing in verse thirty that needs to tell
[4:39:42] Speaker 1: you how to interpret verse twenty five one. It does say,
[4:39:45] Speaker 1: it doesn't. It doesn't say that. It says that God
[4:39:48] Speaker 1: gave them statues. Didn't say God gave them two statues.
[4:39:51] Speaker 1: Said God gave them statutes.
[4:39:53] Speaker 6: He says, following the idol.
[4:39:55] Speaker 1: God give them statutes.
[4:40:01] Speaker 6: I don't think it says gay. I think it's his
[4:40:02] Speaker 6: give I think it means give up.
[4:40:04] Speaker 1: No, it doesn't.
[4:40:04] Speaker 2: Sorrybroyd forgive up.
[4:40:07] Speaker 6: What look at it showing me there says gave up
[4:40:09] Speaker 6: and you're saying it it says gay.
[4:40:11] Speaker 5: It's wrong.
[4:40:11] Speaker 1: Your translation from any game version is wrong. They add
[4:40:16] Speaker 1: the word up there because they don't want it to
[4:40:18] Speaker 1: seem like it says child sacrifice.
[4:40:20] Speaker 10: Yeah, give give up.
[4:40:22] Speaker 1: Give up is not a translation of the Hebrew word
[4:40:25] Speaker 1: a ton, and I'm louder than you, Jerry. No one
[4:40:27] Speaker 1: can fucking hear you when you talk over me. Just
[4:40:30] Speaker 1: so you know, every time you do it, no one
[4:40:31] Speaker 1: will ever hear you, and I will continue to talk
[4:40:35] Speaker 1: over you. If you talk over me.
[4:40:38] Speaker 6: Verse thirty and thirty one, no one cares.
[4:40:40] Speaker 1: We're talking about twenty five.
[4:40:42] Speaker 6: If you take thirty thirty one, no one cares.
[4:40:45] Speaker 1: Jerry, No one fucking cares. What is twenty five saying
[4:40:48] Speaker 1: we're in twenty five, Jerry, we're in twenty five. What
[4:40:50] Speaker 1: its twenty five say?
[4:40:52] Speaker 6: Twenty five is only five verses away?
[4:40:54] Speaker 1: What does twenty five say?
[4:40:56] Speaker 6: Though you're saying it says gave, I say.
[4:40:59] Speaker 1: That's what it says. It doesn't. Okay, then then show
[4:41:02] Speaker 1: me in the Hebrew dictionary where give up is a
[4:41:04] Speaker 1: possible translation of natan show me. Open your dictionary right now.
[4:41:11] Speaker 6: You're trying to put me wrong.
[4:41:12] Speaker 1: It's on the screen right now. It means to give
[4:41:14] Speaker 1: put her set is an active verb. There's a reason
[4:41:35] Speaker 1: why every other translation disagrees with the King James and
[4:41:38] Speaker 1: New King James, because New King James and the King
[4:41:40] Speaker 1: James are trying to soften the language for apologists like you.
[4:41:46] Speaker 6: Okay, let's say it says give it.
[4:41:50] Speaker 1: Yes, God gave, God gave, God gave. What What did
[4:41:56] Speaker 1: he give? This how sentence structure works. What did he give?
[4:42:03] Speaker 6: He gave him statutes?
[4:42:05] Speaker 1: Yes, and to who.
[4:42:12] Speaker 6: I'm not one hundred percent sure, to.
[4:42:14] Speaker 1: Them the Israelites. That's what lacem means to the Israelites Lehem.
[4:42:22] Speaker 1: So he gave to them statutes. Hoo keim.
[4:42:29] Speaker 6: If you go to verse thirty thirty one, ill.
[4:42:31] Speaker 1: What gives a fuck about thirty? The only question on
[4:42:34] Speaker 1: the board is did God give the statute? In twenty six?
[4:42:47] Speaker 6: It says it there, so he gave it to them,
[4:42:49] Speaker 6: Yes he did.
[4:42:50] Speaker 1: That's the only question we've been trying to answer the
[4:42:52] Speaker 1: entire time. Yes, we know that in verse twenty six
[4:42:56] Speaker 1: that he gave them the statute. And again, no one
[4:42:58] Speaker 1: can fucking hear you, Jerry. No one can hear you.
[4:43:01] Speaker 1: I don't know why you keep doing this. No one
[4:43:04] Speaker 1: will ever hear you talking while I'm talking my microphone
[4:43:06] Speaker 1: four times as loud as you, Jerry. So in verse
[4:43:09] Speaker 1: twenty five and twenty six, God gave a commandment, and
[4:43:14] Speaker 1: that commandment was to pass the children through the fire,
[4:43:17] Speaker 1: which is his interpretation of Exodus twenty two.
[4:43:22] Speaker 6: But if you go to verse thirty and thirty one,
[4:43:25] Speaker 6: don't care.
[4:43:26] Speaker 1: No one cares, Jerry, No one fucking cares. The only
[4:43:30] Speaker 1: question we're trying to answer right now is did did
[4:43:33] Speaker 1: God give the command?
[4:43:37] Speaker 6: I would say, okay, so if he did take that away.
[4:43:39] Speaker 1: Jerry, yes or no? Did he give the command?
[4:43:41] Speaker 6: I just said yes.
[4:43:43] Speaker 1: Then that's all we're trying to answer. We don't give
[4:43:44] Speaker 1: a shit about the rest. The only Jerry, no one cares.
[4:43:48] Speaker 1: The only question we're answering right now is Hey, Jerry,
[4:43:52] Speaker 1: no one gives a fuck. The only question we're trying
[4:43:56] Speaker 1: to answer right now is whether or not he gave
[4:43:58] Speaker 1: the command, and the answer to that question is yes.
[4:44:01] Speaker 1: All right, now you're getting muted. I'm tired of fucking
[4:44:03] Speaker 1: yelling at children, Jerry. You gotta fucking pay attention. The
[4:44:08] Speaker 1: only question we're answering right now, the only one. The
[4:44:11] Speaker 1: only thing we care about is did God give a
[4:44:15] Speaker 1: command to offer them up or to pass them through
[4:44:18] Speaker 1: the fire? And these answers yes. I don't need anything
[4:44:22] Speaker 1: after that. Everything that comes after your yes is useless
[4:44:25] Speaker 1: and a waste of time. The answer to my question
[4:44:28] Speaker 1: is yes, which means you're wrong. On Exodus twenty, would
[4:44:32] Speaker 1: you like to move on to your next bad talking point?
[4:44:42] Speaker 2: By the way, while Jerry's silent, the actual Hebrew word
[4:44:46] Speaker 2: meaning to give over something is shellach. It's using Psaw
[4:44:51] Speaker 2: eighty one, verse twelve, where it says, so I gave
[4:44:53] Speaker 2: them over to their stubborn hearts. Does Jerry know how
[4:45:03] Speaker 2: to immute himself?
[4:45:05] Speaker 1: He probably didn't know he was muted. He's busy up,
[4:45:08] Speaker 1: and I'm too tired to be shouting over Jerry. I'm
[4:45:13] Speaker 1: just gonna mute him for now. I've been trying not
[4:45:15] Speaker 1: to mute people.
[4:45:16] Speaker 2: But this is nice, though.
[4:45:20] Speaker 4: I know.
[4:45:22] Speaker 1: It's crazy how they refuse to say. They're completely unable
[4:45:28] Speaker 1: to stay linear. They're not anywhere near remotely close to
[4:45:32] Speaker 1: be alone to answer yes or no questions. I'll never
[4:45:34] Speaker 1: understand it. We started with the question did God command
[4:45:38] Speaker 1: child sacrifice? And he wants to talk about everything but that.
[4:45:42] Speaker 1: I don't care why he did it. I just want
[4:45:44] Speaker 1: to know, did he do it? Jerry? Are you still
[4:45:46] Speaker 1: with us? What are you doing over there? Do you
[4:45:48] Speaker 1: get lost? I'm here fantastic. Okay, So the only question
[4:45:54] Speaker 1: we had on the board was whether or not God
[4:45:56] Speaker 1: commanded child saft rising. You agree, which means we don't. Yes,
[4:46:00] Speaker 1: which means we're don't that talking point. We could have
[4:46:02] Speaker 1: been done with it ten minutes ago.
[4:46:04] Speaker 6: Be dishonest, nod you.
[4:46:06] Speaker 1: You already agreed with me, Jerry, You already agree with me.
[4:46:09] Speaker 1: God commanded it. I don't care why he commanded it.
[4:46:11] Speaker 1: He commanded it, he didn't.
[4:46:13] Speaker 6: He didn't say it verbally. He didn't command them to
[4:46:16] Speaker 6: He gave over.
[4:46:17] Speaker 1: I know it doesn't say give over.
[4:46:21] Speaker 2: The Hebrew word hillock, which means to give someone over,
[4:46:25] Speaker 2: is not used in the text of Ezekiel.
[4:46:36] Speaker 6: I'm not gonna get give it the point. I mean,
[4:46:40] Speaker 6: we can watch the next one, but I'm not gonna
[4:46:41] Speaker 6: give it up.
[4:46:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you're wrong. You can be. You can be
[4:46:44] Speaker 1: publicly wrong, or you want. You're wrong in front of
[4:46:45] Speaker 1: almost three thousand people, and they can see that that
[4:46:48] Speaker 1: you're just incapable of actually engaging honestly. Even though you
[4:46:51] Speaker 1: said twice that yes, God did give a command to
[4:46:56] Speaker 1: do child sacrifice according to verse twenty five, you already yes, Jerry,
[4:47:00] Speaker 1: You already, Jerry, you already said no one can fucking
[4:47:03] Speaker 1: hear you. Stop talking over me. No one can fucking
[4:47:06] Speaker 1: hear you, Jerry. I'm ten times louder than you. No
[4:47:09] Speaker 1: one can ever hear you. No one can hear you.
[4:47:11] Speaker 1: No one can hear you. I can't even fucking hear you.
[4:47:14] Speaker 1: I'm still talking. No one can hear you, Jerry. Every
[4:47:16] Speaker 1: time you talk while I'm talking, I'm gonna talk over
[4:47:18] Speaker 1: you twice as much. This is never gonna work for
[4:47:20] Speaker 1: you until until you learn to be an adult. You're
[4:47:24] Speaker 1: gonna get talked over. That's what you deserve because you
[4:47:27] Speaker 1: can't have a conversation. So again, you already agreed with
[4:47:30] Speaker 1: me twice. Then in verse twenty six, God commanded this.
[4:47:34] Speaker 1: God commanded passing them through the fire. Do you do
[4:47:38] Speaker 1: you take it back? Do you no longer agree?
[4:47:40] Speaker 11: No?
[4:47:41] Speaker 6: I agree with you there, but I'm saying it's.
[4:47:43] Speaker 1: Then he commanded it. There we go, So it's over.
[4:47:47] Speaker 6: That's you're you're you're you're taking out of context.
[4:47:49] Speaker 1: I'm not taking out of context. You don't need any context.
[4:47:52] Speaker 1: The only question we have to ask is did God
[4:47:56] Speaker 1: give this command? Yes or no?
[4:48:01] Speaker 6: The text says it yes.
[4:48:02] Speaker 1: Okay. That means yes, God gave that command. That's the
[4:48:05] Speaker 1: only question we have to answer. I don't give a
[4:48:07] Speaker 1: shit about Jerry. You just did.
[4:48:11] Speaker 6: No, I'm not because I said in thirty and thirty
[4:48:13] Speaker 6: one as.
[4:48:14] Speaker 1: Said, Jerry, I don't give a fuck about thirty. My
[4:48:17] Speaker 1: question is did God give this command? You said yes?
[4:48:22] Speaker 1: That means we're done. The only question on the board
[4:48:26] Speaker 1: is did God give this command? Jerry? I don't give
[4:48:30] Speaker 1: a shit about anything you say after that. The only
[4:48:33] Speaker 1: question I need answered is did God give this command?
[4:48:37] Speaker 1: You said yes? I said yes. That means we agree.
[4:48:41] Speaker 1: We agree that God gave this command to pass them
[4:48:45] Speaker 1: to the fire. It doesn't fucking matter. It doesn't fucking
[4:48:48] Speaker 1: matter what happens after that. You're done. You agree with me?
[4:48:51] Speaker 6: No, I agree with it. Yeah, but in the way
[4:48:54] Speaker 6: it's done it we don't agree.
[4:48:56] Speaker 1: No, we do agree. The only question is not about
[4:48:58] Speaker 1: how it's done. No one asked how it's done. I
[4:49:02] Speaker 1: asked you, did God give the command? And you said yes?
[4:49:05] Speaker 1: I said yes. That means we agree. That means you
[4:49:08] Speaker 1: lost your talking point on the next bad one.
[4:49:13] Speaker 6: No, this wasn't a talking point. This was me addressing
[4:49:15] Speaker 6: a verse that wasn't addressed property, It wasn't dressed properly.
[4:49:21] Speaker 1: To me, Jerry, the only question we had ever brought
[4:49:24] Speaker 1: that verse up for was to answer the question did
[4:49:27] Speaker 1: God command the child sacrifice? And the answer that you
[4:49:31] Speaker 1: gave us is yes, which means we addressed it correctly.
[4:49:40] Speaker 2: No, because then you, yep, you just don't seem to
[4:49:44] Speaker 2: like what the actual Hebrews says, and you would prefer
[4:49:46] Speaker 2: your English translation over what the text actually said.
[4:49:52] Speaker 1: Is what I'm his specially, it doesn't fucking matter. It's
[4:49:54] Speaker 1: not relevant to the question the question. No, it's not
[4:49:59] Speaker 1: what's the question question?
[4:50:01] Speaker 6: The question is did he command it?
[4:50:03] Speaker 1: Yeah? And what's the answer?
[4:50:05] Speaker 5: Yes?
[4:50:06] Speaker 1: Did I need to read verse thirty for that?
[4:50:10] Speaker 6: Okay?
[4:50:11] Speaker 1: So did I need to read verse thirty to get
[4:50:15] Speaker 1: that answer?
[4:50:16] Speaker 5: Yes?
[4:50:17] Speaker 11: No?
[4:50:18] Speaker 1: Wrong again, I didn't. I got the answer without reading
[4:50:21] Speaker 1: verse thirty. Wrong again, Wrong fucking again, Jerry, I didn't
[4:50:24] Speaker 1: read verse thirty. I didn't need verse thirty. I didn't
[4:50:28] Speaker 1: need No one can fucking hear you, Jerry, I didn't
[4:50:30] Speaker 1: need to read verse thirty. I didn't need you. I
[4:50:34] Speaker 1: can't hear you fucking either. No one needs to read
[4:50:38] Speaker 1: no one. No one reads thirty to know what's in
[4:50:42] Speaker 1: twenty six? No one, no one's doing it. I didn't.
[4:50:47] Speaker 1: I did not read I did not need to read
[4:50:49] Speaker 1: verse thirty to tell you what is happening here. Did
[4:50:52] Speaker 1: I read verse thirty? Did I read verse thirty? Did
[4:50:54] Speaker 1: I read verse thirty? Did I read verse thirty? Did
[4:51:00] Speaker 1: I read verse thirty? Did I read verse thirty?
[4:51:05] Speaker 6: Manipulative?
[4:51:07] Speaker 1: Did I read verse thirty?
[4:51:08] Speaker 6: Jerry, you're being manipulated?
[4:51:11] Speaker 1: Honest, Jerry, You'll never win this fight. No, we're not
[4:51:14] Speaker 1: moving on till you're stop done being a child? Did
[4:51:17] Speaker 1: I read verse thirty? Did I read verse thirty? Did
[4:51:20] Speaker 1: I read verse thirty? Did I read verse thirty? Did
[4:51:23] Speaker 1: I read verse thirty? Did I read verse thirty? I'm
[4:51:26] Speaker 1: going to meet you like a fucking child now Now
[4:51:28] Speaker 1: you're don't given to hear anything you're saying. You can
[4:51:33] Speaker 1: yop all you on on mute the answer to the questions, no,
[4:51:36] Speaker 1: By the way, I didn't read verse thirty. Isn't that weird?
[4:51:39] Speaker 1: We both could We had the same conclusion. You and
[4:51:42] Speaker 1: I came to the same conclusion about twenty five and
[4:51:45] Speaker 1: twenty six, and I didn't have to read verse thirty.
[4:51:47] Speaker 1: It's almost like verse thirty doesn't matter. I don't think
[4:51:52] Speaker 1: he actually knows how to unmute himself, by the way
[4:51:56] Speaker 1: I had to. I had to send them the unmute
[4:51:58] Speaker 1: request last time. So well, the tries is again, Jerry,
[4:52:02] Speaker 1: did I read verse thirty to come to the conclusion
[4:52:05] Speaker 1: that twenty five and twenty six means that God gave
[4:52:08] Speaker 1: the command?
[4:52:12] Speaker 5: No?
[4:52:13] Speaker 17: Okay, don't answer.
[4:52:14] Speaker 1: How did I come to the conclusion without reading verse thirty? Okay?
[4:52:19] Speaker 11: So did? Then?
[4:52:21] Speaker 1: Is verse thirty a requirement to understanding twenty five and
[4:52:23] Speaker 1: twenty six?
[4:52:24] Speaker 6: Is reading one verse honest to the text?
[4:52:26] Speaker 4: Try?
[4:52:27] Speaker 1: Try again? I didn't ask that question. Is reading verse
[4:52:29] Speaker 1: thirty required to know what's happening in twenty five and
[4:52:33] Speaker 1: twenty six?
[4:52:34] Speaker 6: And why are we reading this verse four again?
[4:52:37] Speaker 1: Jerry? You didn't answer the question. Do I need verse
[4:52:41] Speaker 1: thirty to know what's happening in twenty five and twenty six?
[4:52:44] Speaker 10: No?
[4:52:44] Speaker 6: You don't.
[4:52:45] Speaker 1: Okay, there we go. The verse thirty is fucking irrelevant.
[4:52:48] Speaker 1: You and I both agree that you can read verse
[4:52:51] Speaker 1: twenty five because it answers the question. Jerry, do you
[4:52:54] Speaker 1: know what the question was?
[4:52:56] Speaker 6: Yes?
[4:52:56] Speaker 10: But what's the question?
[4:52:59] Speaker 1: What's the question what's the question?
[4:53:01] Speaker 6: Does does he get statutes? Yes?
[4:53:04] Speaker 2: No?
[4:53:04] Speaker 1: What's the other question? Is all one question? What statue?
[4:53:07] Speaker 1: What kind?
[4:53:09] Speaker 6: Bad statutes?
[4:53:10] Speaker 1: And what's the answer to that?
[4:53:13] Speaker 5: Yes?
[4:53:13] Speaker 1: Do I need verse thirty to know the answer to
[4:53:15] Speaker 1: the question. Yes, No, I didn't need verse thirty to
[4:53:19] Speaker 1: answer the question. No, we're not talking about morality. That's
[4:53:24] Speaker 1: why we got We're not talking about morality. We're talking
[4:53:27] Speaker 1: about did God command child sacrifice? It doesn't matter, I
[4:53:32] Speaker 1: don't care. We're not talking about that right now. We're
[4:53:34] Speaker 1: talking about did God command child sacrifice? And what's the answer. Yes, Okay,
[4:53:41] Speaker 1: that's the only question that requires an answer. Next question,
[4:53:46] Speaker 1: it was not his will? No one give the fuck.
[4:53:49] Speaker 1: No one gives a ship. No one's asking that question.
[4:53:52] Speaker 1: No one cares.
[4:53:54] Speaker 6: We can see that point then, because you don't care
[4:53:58] Speaker 6: about that's fine.
[4:54:01] Speaker 1: It's not a concession. It's not even a talking point yet.
[4:54:03] Speaker 6: No, I'm conceding, It's fine. I'm not I'm not going
[4:54:06] Speaker 6: to argue that point with you.
[4:54:08] Speaker 1: Okay, So you ran out of time. I think before
[4:54:11] Speaker 1: you got side tracked, you had like three minutes left
[4:54:15] Speaker 1: on your Maybe the worst syllogism I've ever had a
[4:54:18] Speaker 1: live stream. So on do you want to finish the
[4:54:23] Speaker 1: syllogism or do you just want to get kicked now?
[4:54:26] Speaker 6: You can kick me now. But Isaiah Forfty two thirteen.
[4:54:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, no, one gives a fuck. Yeah, so some prophecies
[4:54:34] Speaker 1: were fulfilled, and Isaiah to do it about Jesus, Isaaba,
[4:54:37] Speaker 1: you're doing it about Jesus, Isaib, you're doing any about Diseaseus. No,
[4:54:40] Speaker 1: it's not. No, you're wrong, you're wrong. You think it's
[4:54:43] Speaker 1: about it Israel, but yesday, No, it's not about.
[4:54:46] Speaker 2: Jesus, Yes, about Jesus. Isaiah verse thirteen is also wouldn't
[4:54:50] Speaker 2: be fulfilled.
[4:54:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, Isaiah fifty two, it wouldn't be fulfilled it anyways.
[4:54:57] Speaker 6: Psalms one on one, Psalm one on one.
[4:54:59] Speaker 1: Is about it. Not even a prophecy, the Lord said.
[4:55:02] Speaker 6: The Lord said to my Lord said in my right hand.
[4:55:05] Speaker 1: That's one time. That means that's one ten And it
[4:55:07] Speaker 1: doesn't say the Lord said to my Lord, it says
[4:55:10] Speaker 1: an oracle of Yahweh to my master, you're reading it
[4:55:14] Speaker 1: in a bad translation.
[4:55:20] Speaker 6: Now that that that that that is your.
[4:55:25] Speaker 1: I'll never understand how the dumbest people on the planet
[4:55:28] Speaker 1: think that they're so smart what's to say? What? What
[4:55:31] Speaker 1: does the Lord mean? In every English translation? When you
[4:55:35] Speaker 1: see it in mini caps, what does it mean?
[4:55:42] Speaker 6: You're gonna make a point that that has that has like.
[4:55:45] Speaker 1: No that what's it mean? Jerry, Larry fucking Jerry, answer
[4:55:50] Speaker 1: the question, what's it mean?
[4:55:53] Speaker 6: Capitalizes God?
[4:55:55] Speaker 1: Okay, it's yahweh, yes. Okay. Now this translation says Yahweh
[4:56:01] Speaker 1: says to my Lord. What's the word for my Lord?
[4:56:05] Speaker 6: I don't know. I told you I mean thying for
[4:56:08] Speaker 6: a year.
[4:56:08] Speaker 1: An that's the word for my Lord. What's it mean
[4:56:11] Speaker 1: in Hebrew?
[4:56:13] Speaker 6: I don't know.
[4:56:14] Speaker 1: It doesn't mean God. It can be used as a
[4:56:17] Speaker 1: placeholder for God out of respect, but it doesn't mean God.
[4:56:21] Speaker 1: It's not saying that God said to my God. In fact,
[4:56:24] Speaker 1: in Hebrew, Jerry, no one can fucking hear you. Stop
[4:56:27] Speaker 1: talking while I'm talking, or I'll meet you like a
[4:56:29] Speaker 1: goddamn child again. So it doesn't say the Lord said
[4:56:34] Speaker 1: to my Lord in Hebrew. What it actually says is
[4:56:38] Speaker 1: um Yahweh, which is an utterance of yahweh.
[4:56:44] Speaker 6: Yes.
[4:56:45] Speaker 1: So it's an utterance of Yahweh to my master, who
[4:56:49] Speaker 1: is the king. This is a prophecy to King David
[4:56:53] Speaker 1: and the prophecy says, sit in my right hand until
[4:56:56] Speaker 1: I make your any means your footstool. That prophecy was
[4:56:59] Speaker 1: our Jerry, stop fucking talking while I'm talking, or I'll
[4:57:02] Speaker 1: meet you. Ye okay, So I'll just meet you then, okay.
[4:57:06] Speaker 1: So this prophecy was already fulfilled in King David. This
[4:57:12] Speaker 1: whole prophecies about King David, the Lord sends out from
[4:57:16] Speaker 1: Zion your mighty scepter to rule in the midst of
[4:57:19] Speaker 1: your foes. That's what David did. Your people will willingly
[4:57:23] Speaker 1: offer themselves on the day you lead your forces on
[4:57:26] Speaker 1: the Holy Mountains. That's what David did. Jesus didn't do that.
[4:57:31] Speaker 1: Jesus didn't do any of that. David did that, and
[4:57:35] Speaker 1: it's fulfilled. If you just read First King, the First
[4:57:39] Speaker 1: Kings five or Second Kings five, you.
[4:57:42] Speaker 2: Know it's crazy. Justin the very in the Hebrew text
[4:57:45] Speaker 2: of Someone ten, the very first word is la David,
[4:57:51] Speaker 2: which means for David.
[4:57:55] Speaker 1: Now, Lady vivm is Moore, First Kings, chapter five to three.
[4:57:59] Speaker 1: You know that my father David could not build a
[4:58:01] Speaker 1: house for the name of the Lord, his God because
[4:58:04] Speaker 1: of the warfare which with his enemies surrounded him until
[4:58:07] Speaker 1: he put them under the soles of his feet. This
[4:58:11] Speaker 1: was a promise to David. This is not about Jesus,
[4:58:16] Speaker 1: not about your sky carcass. The cumulus cadaver is not
[4:58:20] Speaker 1: about Jesus at all. He still doesn't know how to
[4:58:25] Speaker 1: meet himself.
[4:58:28] Speaker 6: Oh, man, I don't use TikTok to you.
[4:58:33] Speaker 1: You don't use brain cells. Okay, So this is nothing
[4:58:36] Speaker 1: about Jesus. This is a prophecy to King David.
[4:58:39] Speaker 6: You're just gonna insult me that that's just crazy.
[4:58:41] Speaker 1: The other guy was not crazy. You're you're demonstrating it.
[4:58:45] Speaker 1: No that that last guy was not speaking nearly as
[4:58:47] Speaker 1: much nonsense as you.
[4:58:50] Speaker 6: That's because you don't believe.
[4:58:53] Speaker 1: I don't believe because it's not true.
[4:58:57] Speaker 2: Jerry, What the What's the first word in Psalm one
[4:59:00] Speaker 2: ten In the original Hebrew, the very first word, yeah,
[4:59:05] Speaker 2: lead vi is more yeah, the first the very first
[4:59:09] Speaker 2: word tells you who the psalm is written to. In Hebrew,
[4:59:14] Speaker 2: it says la David. So you see the letters, the
[4:59:17] Speaker 2: first four letters there, it's Lamid dialateal it well no,
[4:59:20] Speaker 2: in the In engliship I say a psalm of David.
[4:59:23] Speaker 2: But the preposition lamed means two or four La David
[4:59:28] Speaker 2: literally means four David means or a psalm umi yahue
[4:59:33] Speaker 2: la donat to.
[4:59:38] Speaker 1: If you want to say that, so the lamed prefix
[4:59:41] Speaker 1: means two four or of what we know in the
[4:59:45] Speaker 1: Psalms is that when it's in this configuration lead v
[4:59:48] Speaker 1: is more rather than miss moore lad da vide. It's
[4:59:51] Speaker 1: almost nine times out of ten to David, not from David.
[4:59:56] Speaker 2: Yeah, if you wanted to say that something was written
[4:59:58] Speaker 2: by David. If you want, if you wanted to say
[5:00:02] Speaker 2: a psalm of David, the word you would use would
[5:00:04] Speaker 2: be meme memes or I'll you die da Vid by
[5:00:09] Speaker 2: the hand of David. That's how you would say that.
[5:00:13] Speaker 2: No actual like non confessional scholar, if you read, for example,
[5:00:16] Speaker 2: Joe Baden's book on King David, Joe Biden points out,
[5:00:18] Speaker 2: and he actually has a free for anyone who has
[5:00:20] Speaker 2: to watch on the Great Courses. Plus, Joe Biden has
[5:00:23] Speaker 2: a short video about who wrote the Psalms, and the
[5:00:26] Speaker 2: Hebrew Bible never tells us that David wrote the Psalms exclusively.
[5:00:30] Speaker 2: It says that it's written for David, or to David
[5:00:32] Speaker 2: or about David, but never says it's written by David.
[5:00:36] Speaker 2: This is all about King David m.
[5:00:42] Speaker 6: A some of David. So I and do you show
[5:00:45] Speaker 6: me one of your trust resources that that that that
[5:00:47] Speaker 6: would translate the way you want to translate it. I
[5:00:50] Speaker 6: can kind of concede the point, but I won't trust
[5:00:52] Speaker 6: it one hundred percent. But I would say Psalm twenty.
[5:00:55] Speaker 1: Two again, there's no prophecy there. Psalm twenty two is
[5:01:04] Speaker 1: not a prophecy.
[5:01:05] Speaker 6: You can say, you can say it's poetry or whatever
[5:01:08] Speaker 6: whatever you believe it is, but literally.
[5:01:10] Speaker 1: Described, no, it doesn't.
[5:01:11] Speaker 11: Jerry.
[5:01:12] Speaker 1: Let me ask you an easy question. Are prophecies in
[5:01:14] Speaker 1: the future or the paste for the future?
[5:01:19] Speaker 2: Okay?
[5:01:19] Speaker 1: Are there any future tense verbs in this that would
[5:01:22] Speaker 1: indicate that it's a prophecy for the future? No answers.
[5:01:28] Speaker 5: No.
[5:01:28] Speaker 2: By the way, might as well skip to verse sixteen
[5:01:33] Speaker 2: and get to the juicy stuff, because that's exactly way
[5:01:35] Speaker 2: he's thinking of. Oh yep, like, there you go.
[5:01:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, Jerry, one hundred bucks. Can you find me a
[5:01:40] Speaker 1: future tense verb in here?
[5:01:44] Speaker 4: No?
[5:01:44] Speaker 10: But for dogs that surround.
[5:01:45] Speaker 1: There you go? There you go? Yeah, No, you can't
[5:01:52] Speaker 1: look again, wrong, didn't they?
[5:02:00] Speaker 2: Here's an interesting thing if we were to open up
[5:02:02] Speaker 2: Isaiah thirty eight, verse thirteen, and look at the Hebrew.
[5:02:06] Speaker 2: We would see this word called k ari, which even
[5:02:10] Speaker 2: in your Bible gets translated correctly as like a lion.
[5:02:13] Speaker 2: And when we open up Psalm twenty two, verse sixteen,
[5:02:16] Speaker 2: the original Hebrew, guess what word we find? Can you guess, Jerry,
[5:02:28] Speaker 2: I want to see it.
[5:02:29] Speaker 6: I'm not gonna guess.
[5:02:34] Speaker 2: The last few words are one more down.
[5:02:37] Speaker 1: Oh, it's seventeen in the air, isn't it. Yeah, Cayer.
[5:02:43] Speaker 6: Like I said, if you guys think keep doing this.
[5:02:45] Speaker 6: If you're not gonna pull up an actual something explains
[5:02:47] Speaker 6: that I'm not gonna trust.
[5:02:48] Speaker 2: Your word here, Jerry, Jerry. I want you, Jerry, in
[5:02:51] Speaker 2: your Bible. I want you to open up Isaiah thirty eight,
[5:02:53] Speaker 2: verse thirteen real quick, because we're going to show you
[5:02:58] Speaker 2: how your Bible is going to be honest with the
[5:03:01] Speaker 2: way it translates this word.
[5:03:07] Speaker 6: You shaid Isaiah thirty eight, Isaiah.
[5:03:09] Speaker 2: Thirty eight or thirteen, And then Justin's gonna pull out
[5:03:13] Speaker 2: the same text in Hebrew and we're going to see
[5:03:16] Speaker 2: what word it chooses to use, and we'll compare it
[5:03:18] Speaker 2: Psalm twenty two. Because it's funny because when kri occurs
[5:03:31] Speaker 2: in other parts of the Bible, Christian translators will be
[5:03:34] Speaker 2: honest so long as they don't think it's about Jesus.
[5:03:40] Speaker 2: So what does your Bible say, Jerry? In Isaiah thirty eight,
[5:03:43] Speaker 2: verse thirteen.
[5:03:45] Speaker 6: I have considered it until morning like a lion, so
[5:03:47] Speaker 6: he breaks all my bones from day until night. You
[5:03:50] Speaker 6: make an end of me.
[5:03:52] Speaker 2: And justin what what does the text look like in Hebrew?
[5:03:55] Speaker 2: What does this say?
[5:03:56] Speaker 1: Is he gonna look like? Actually this, let me pull
[5:03:58] Speaker 1: it up though Isaiah thirty eight, which verse verse thirteen
[5:04:09] Speaker 1: guarantee it's uh kyrie. They even notate it in the JPS.
[5:04:16] Speaker 2: It's right up there. So the layers cough are olive rashid,
[5:04:23] Speaker 2: and even the niku. The vowel points are the same.
[5:04:26] Speaker 2: It's a comets shive of patakh and a kiriek. And
[5:04:29] Speaker 2: when we go back to Psalm twenty two, it's the
[5:04:32] Speaker 2: same letters, the same vowels. And yet for some reason,
[5:04:36] Speaker 2: and your translation says pierced instead of like a lion.
[5:04:40] Speaker 2: Why is that, Jerry?
[5:04:45] Speaker 6: I didn't see it to do the fresh one. I'll
[5:04:47] Speaker 6: take your work for I'm not sure.
[5:04:52] Speaker 2: So if ka ari means like a lion, and ps.
[5:04:55] Speaker 2: Twenty two says k Ari my hands and my feet.
[5:04:59] Speaker 2: What should I think that means.
[5:05:06] Speaker 6: My hands and my feet? And maybe we just have
[5:05:08] Speaker 6: my hands and my feet.
[5:05:10] Speaker 2: It comes right after Kari, Yeah, die the regularie like
[5:05:13] Speaker 2: a lion at my hands and my feet. No word
[5:05:16] Speaker 2: for pierced. The Hebrew word for pierce being to car
[5:05:19] Speaker 2: does not occur in Isaiah in Psalm twenty two, not once.
[5:05:23] Speaker 6: Well, it's definitely something for me to look up on.
[5:05:29] Speaker 2: Anymore.
[5:05:29] Speaker 6: But I still believe it. It depicts my my Jesus.
[5:05:33] Speaker 6: But I'll look it up. I'll look it up and
[5:05:35] Speaker 6: I'll give you that point. I don't know hebro next one. No,
[5:05:44] Speaker 6: that's what I brought up.
[5:05:45] Speaker 1: Isaiah seven, zach Ryan nine like a five.
[5:05:51] Speaker 6: No, I'm not going to pull in anything up that
[5:05:53] Speaker 6: I haven't at least read myself. I'm not gonna pull
[5:05:57] Speaker 6: myself in anywhere. I don't know about Jerry.
[5:06:01] Speaker 1: How much Bible training do you have?
[5:06:04] Speaker 6: How much Bible training?
[5:06:05] Speaker 17: Not much?
[5:06:06] Speaker 6: I told you I just started reading.
[5:06:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, why are you? Why are you on a live
[5:06:10] Speaker 1: stream with a guy who Hey, Jerry, why are you
[5:06:15] Speaker 1: fucking talking? You haven't heard my question? Yet try again,
[5:06:19] Speaker 1: listen to my question. Listen to my question. Now you're muted.
[5:06:25] Speaker 1: You don't get to answer questions until you get to
[5:06:27] Speaker 1: hear the question. Now he's gone, and he ran, all right,
[5:06:31] Speaker 1: what a fucking child? Oh well, what are you going
[5:06:34] Speaker 1: to do?
[5:06:36] Speaker 2: You've never seen that. It's like I feel like Lebron
[5:06:38] Speaker 2: James playing against a ten year old on the.
[5:06:40] Speaker 1: Court, and the ten year olds like I'm kicking Lebron
[5:06:44] Speaker 1: James's ass. Yeah, I'll never understand these people. I'll never
[5:06:54] Speaker 1: get it, like I've so like, for example, like I've
[5:06:58] Speaker 1: worked with a lot of people in engineering that have
[5:07:02] Speaker 1: like masters in PhD in various fields. You know what
[5:07:06] Speaker 1: I do when I have projects with those people, I
[5:07:09] Speaker 1: defer to their experience, Like, oh, this motherfucker's got a PhD.
[5:07:13] Speaker 1: He obviously weighs knows way more than I do about
[5:07:16] Speaker 1: this particular you know topic. So I always defer to
[5:07:20] Speaker 1: the people who have the actual expertise. So like the
[5:07:23] Speaker 1: fact that the guy who's been a Christian for a
[5:07:25] Speaker 1: year is going to get up here and just call
[5:07:27] Speaker 1: us liars. We've actually spent years learning the actual material
[5:07:33] Speaker 1: is crazy. Only I'll never understand how you can look
[5:07:38] Speaker 1: at Ezekiel twenty and know in your mind that it's
[5:07:43] Speaker 1: God commanding child sacrifice, and spend twenty minutes avoiding it.
[5:07:47] Speaker 1: I'll never get it.
[5:07:48] Speaker 2: And the apologtics of giving up is just such a
[5:07:51] Speaker 2: such a lame ass apologetics.
[5:07:53] Speaker 1: It's bad, all right, friends, Listen, I've got a bunch
[5:07:56] Speaker 1: of super cheps to read out, and I can't stay
[5:07:58] Speaker 1: up till three in the morning. That shit, it's only
[5:08:00] Speaker 1: a Monday. The fucking week's off like a banger already.
[5:08:03] Speaker 1: I can't even wait to see what Friday's gonna be
[5:08:05] Speaker 1: like if mondays like this. But my goodness, thanks for
[5:08:09] Speaker 1: being here. We're gonna read off super chats. I'm sorry.
[5:08:11] Speaker 1: We've got a bunch of them, so it might take
[5:08:13] Speaker 1: me a while to get to yours if we haven't
[5:08:15] Speaker 1: gotten to it yet. Karen says, my Lions are on
[5:08:19] Speaker 1: n M n F. What's that?
[5:08:27] Speaker 2: No idea my lions?
[5:08:30] Speaker 1: I'm sure she's talked about the Detroit Lions. But what's Monday? Oh,
[5:08:34] Speaker 1: Monday Night Football? Why do people think I know these abbreviations.
[5:08:41] Speaker 1: I don't know abbreviations, people, I use the whole words.
[5:08:45] Speaker 1: I'm forty plus. I don't know any of these things.
[5:08:50] Speaker 1: Thank you, Karen, I appreciate that, and fucking go lions.
[5:08:54] Speaker 1: Lord Aluminus, thank you for the fight hour. Super Chat says,
[5:08:57] Speaker 1: as pope of the horizontal, we we deny the up
[5:09:02] Speaker 1: and downers. Now the verticals are up and downers. This
[5:09:06] Speaker 1: is getting crazy. I don't like the mud being slung.
[5:09:09] Speaker 1: Jemmy Jay says, was foreskin dowry a mill recruitment demonstration?
[5:09:18] Speaker 1: What's mill mean? Friends? I love you, but I need
[5:09:23] Speaker 1: whole words.
[5:09:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, whole words please.
[5:09:28] Speaker 1: I don't know what recruitment.
[5:09:32] Speaker 2: I don't know, but I know that. I mean, that's
[5:09:35] Speaker 2: David's dowry for Mika and King Saw. He goes, give
[5:09:40] Speaker 2: me two a horse gans He's like, I got you
[5:09:42] Speaker 2: four hundred, want a show off.
[5:09:46] Speaker 1: I know he didn't have to touch that many pens
[5:09:48] Speaker 1: as he chose.
[5:09:49] Speaker 2: Oh he wanted to. He was too busy thinking about Jonathan.
[5:09:53] Speaker 1: But you know that's what it was. That's what it was.
[5:09:57] Speaker 1: He wanted to get some of that breastpreate of righteous this.
[5:10:01] Speaker 1: Lord Aluminus Poo says, horizontal is left and right. I
[5:10:06] Speaker 1: see what you did there. I suit you did there, Aluminus.
[5:10:08] Speaker 1: That was tricky e ex trill think it for the
[5:10:13] Speaker 1: super gents. Have you ever been a caller guest on
[5:10:17] Speaker 1: these shows? I remember Matt's first atheist call on x Pede. No,
[5:10:22] Speaker 1: I've never called in one of the shows because it's
[5:10:24] Speaker 1: supposed to be a debate. Why the fuck would I
[5:10:26] Speaker 1: call in?
[5:10:27] Speaker 2: I remember seeing Matt's first ever call when he was
[5:10:31] Speaker 2: like not on the show, and he called into the
[5:10:33] Speaker 2: Atheist Experience. It's which is so wild. Yeah, it's out
[5:10:37] Speaker 2: there on the internet. You can go called in as Yeah,
[5:10:40] Speaker 2: he was not part of the atheist experience yet, and
[5:10:42] Speaker 2: he called into the Atheist Experience to give his pointers,
[5:10:46] Speaker 2: and uh, yeah, why I don't remember. I think he
[5:10:51] Speaker 2: just maybe had he brought forward some points against someone
[5:10:55] Speaker 2: else or something like that, but he was giving his
[5:10:57] Speaker 2: two cents. I guess maybe they just really liked him.
[5:11:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, well they kept them around for like twenty years.
[5:11:04] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[5:11:06] Speaker 1: Interesting. No, I don't plan on calling unless like there's
[5:11:09] Speaker 1: a really dead night and they need a good trolling.
[5:11:13] Speaker 2: I called in once.
[5:11:14] Speaker 1: Oh how that go?
[5:11:16] Speaker 2: I called you? Tell me I was I called you?
[5:11:20] Speaker 2: It was you and Sarah was on eggsp I.
[5:11:21] Speaker 1: Called you Wait you called us?
[5:11:26] Speaker 2: Yeah I did. That was like a couple, like like
[5:11:27] Speaker 2: a month ago or something like that.
[5:11:28] Speaker 1: I remember, shiit my memory is I I do so
[5:11:32] Speaker 1: many live streams. My memory can't keep track of any
[5:11:34] Speaker 1: of them anymore.
[5:11:35] Speaker 2: Oh I don't. I don't blame you. I don't keep
[5:11:37] Speaker 2: track of people either.
[5:11:39] Speaker 1: I'm in the little Man. I don't know to say, Mike,
[5:11:44] Speaker 1: thank you for the doc nine Ie Superto says the
[5:11:46] Speaker 1: film bro is uh Spacoli and Justin is mister hand. Well,
[5:11:50] Speaker 1: thank you, Mike, and I have no idea what that means,
[5:11:52] Speaker 1: but I appreciate the super chat. Adam, thank you so
[5:11:55] Speaker 1: much for the two our Supertenes says the pope is
[5:11:57] Speaker 1: a brain in a Vatican and that is good. That
[5:12:01] Speaker 1: is good. I like that. Sean, thank you for the
[5:12:04] Speaker 1: pretend says, don't let Justin divide us. We stand together.
[5:12:07] Speaker 1: I'm not dividing anyone. I want the two streams together together. Friends,
[5:12:13] Speaker 1: and Chris says, horizontal verse verse, please make a note.
[5:12:18] Speaker 1: Oh my god, it a house divided cannot stand friends.
[5:12:31] Speaker 1: Brittany says, well, equals pretty deep subject for a shallow mind.
[5:12:35] Speaker 1: Yeah that might be the that's what that means when
[5:12:38] Speaker 1: they load up the well bitter brush. Thank you for
[5:12:41] Speaker 1: the fight, says all Praise Doug. The horizontal tribe shall
[5:12:45] Speaker 1: rain in the Holy land, the verticals shall feast in
[5:12:48] Speaker 1: the dust of their own pebbles. This is blasphemous. Blasphemous.
[5:12:54] Speaker 1: Friends were of the same house, of the same lineage.
[5:12:58] Speaker 1: David says. The first back European languages go is proto
[5:13:01] Speaker 1: Indo European. That was my understanding about five thousand to
[5:13:04] Speaker 1: forty five hundred PCE. It's entirely reconstructed and there's no
[5:13:09] Speaker 1: written evidence. Yeah, I mean we know quite a bit
[5:13:13] Speaker 1: about the Proto Indo European languages. I've never heard the
[5:13:19] Speaker 1: Tower of Babel argument. Yeah, that's an interesting one. Jesus
[5:13:23] Speaker 1: titty f in Christ, I thank you for the spirit.
[5:13:25] Speaker 1: It says. I tried the vertical stream once and got
[5:13:28] Speaker 1: some in my nose and mouth. Now I'll never do
[5:13:31] Speaker 1: the horizontal stream again. M salty he was, he did
[5:13:37] Speaker 1: go vertically repeatedly. Coo, you went down on it, not
[5:13:48] Speaker 1: on you, Sanda Bark says Chris was putting the Bologney
[5:13:52] Speaker 1: back in Babylonian. That was good. I can't believe I've
[5:13:56] Speaker 1: never heard that. I like that stateful Heritic says, my
[5:14:01] Speaker 1: church used to say, God gave me this verse for you.
[5:14:05] Speaker 1: So as a kid, I decided a fun prank would
[5:14:08] Speaker 1: be to give vicar Nahoum three five through six. She
[5:14:12] Speaker 1: didn't find it funny.
[5:14:15] Speaker 2: Let's see, well, I mean.
[5:14:17] Speaker 1: Vicar is Latin nayhum is is the Hebrew prophet nahom,
[5:14:21] Speaker 1: which means to utter.
[5:14:23] Speaker 2: Behold, I am against you, says the Lord of hosts,
[5:14:25] Speaker 2: and will lift up your skirts over your face, and
[5:14:27] Speaker 2: I will nations look on your nakedness and kingdoms on
[5:14:31] Speaker 2: your shape.
[5:14:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, so vicar vicar nahum is what you're saying is
[5:14:37] Speaker 1: the okay.
[5:14:39] Speaker 2: No, he gave the He gave the vicar nay Whom
[5:14:42] Speaker 2: three five through six as the word of the God,
[5:14:45] Speaker 2: the word that God gave to me.
[5:14:46] Speaker 1: No, I thought you were saying, vicar nahom, you gave
[5:14:51] Speaker 1: two vicar. You gave two vicar Kama Nahom three five
[5:14:57] Speaker 1: through six to say what we should say. Interesting. Now
[5:15:01] Speaker 1: I have to reread it because I my church used
[5:15:04] Speaker 1: to say, God gave me this verse for you, So
[5:15:06] Speaker 1: as a kid, I decided for fun prank I would
[5:15:08] Speaker 1: give to the vicar uh Nahum five three six. Now
[5:15:13] Speaker 1: it's funny. Now it's funny. I appreciate it as good. Guys.
[5:15:16] Speaker 1: Punctuation sometimes you need commas or hyphens like you gotta you.
[5:15:22] Speaker 2: Know, remember everyone, Punctuation is the difference between let's eat
[5:15:25] Speaker 2: Grandma and let's eat grandma.
[5:15:27] Speaker 1: Exactly, yes, precisely. Yeah, yep, Doctor Fudge, thank you so
[5:15:32] Speaker 1: much for the Finoction says, my interpretive framework divines that
[5:15:35] Speaker 1: your words about Doug mean he actually wants us to
[5:15:38] Speaker 1: have a square stream to unify the horizontal and vertical.
[5:15:42] Speaker 1: And this is something I've never considered. I could do
[5:15:45] Speaker 1: as square stream. I'm not thrilled about it. I think
[5:15:49] Speaker 1: it would air at least on Instagram. I don't know
[5:15:53] Speaker 1: about anywhere. Sure, Stray Heathen says, the crash outs are
[5:15:58] Speaker 1: Doug heites vert verse Dug. I hort what listen, I'm hoping,
[5:16:07] Speaker 1: I'm I'm praying the dog that the vert in horizontals
[5:16:11] Speaker 1: are not crashing out on each other. Guys, we're on
[5:16:13] Speaker 1: the same team. Jimmy says. My plants, I'm sorry, my
[5:16:16] Speaker 1: plants in the dark are my only friends in cell?
[5:16:20] Speaker 1: Hey listen, I like plants.
[5:16:23] Speaker 5: I'm not an inn.
[5:16:24] Speaker 11: So oh oh.
[5:16:25] Speaker 2: They're referred to that one as seven day Advertiska has
[5:16:28] Speaker 2: an incel.
[5:16:29] Speaker 1: Uh that could be yeah, that could be shera. Great
[5:16:37] Speaker 1: to see you think it. For the six sixty six,
[5:16:38] Speaker 1: hail Nero says, Magma erupts vertically, but it settles into
[5:16:43] Speaker 1: foundation stone horizontally. In your hot youth you go vertical,
[5:16:48] Speaker 1: but in your wise years you become horizontal. Actually, I
[5:16:51] Speaker 1: don't disagree with that. I think what you're saying, though,
[5:16:54] Speaker 1: is that you start on vertical and you end up
[5:16:56] Speaker 1: horizontal as you mature. And to be fair that it
[5:17:00] Speaker 1: has actually been the trend. The reason why I'm running
[5:17:03] Speaker 1: I will never stop running a vertical stream is because
[5:17:07] Speaker 1: a vertical stream gets pushed into the short speed, and
[5:17:10] Speaker 1: the short speed has a much higher visibility rate than
[5:17:14] Speaker 1: the horizontal stream. So most of the guests on YouTube
[5:17:17] Speaker 1: that call in, they called in because they saw me
[5:17:20] Speaker 1: on the short speed. If I run only a horizontal feed,
[5:17:23] Speaker 1: I won't get as many callers from YouTube. That's the
[5:17:26] Speaker 1: same problem they have on XP, the same problem they
[5:17:29] Speaker 1: have on the line. When we're taking callers, we have
[5:17:32] Speaker 1: like one or two people in the queue.
[5:17:33] Speaker 2: That's it.
[5:17:34] Speaker 1: We're dying for calls on these shows because the format
[5:17:38] Speaker 1: is changing. Everyone's going to TikTok. Everyone's going to vertical.
[5:17:43] Speaker 2: We gotta get them on TikTok, streaming on TikTok.
[5:17:46] Speaker 1: I'm working with them. I'm working with them. It's gonna
[5:17:49] Speaker 1: happen soon. Actually, Austin three sixteen says for the atheist playlists,
[5:17:54] Speaker 1: all by the band Ghost. We have Ghosts on the
[5:17:58] Speaker 1: on the playlist already, says ri Wood. Dug in the course.
[5:18:01] Speaker 1: Oh I didn't know that. Call me little miss Sunshine.

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