# 2025-09-28 LIVE DEBATE \[God is Imaginary\]

An episode of [Deconstruction Zone](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1837730286), 2 Jan 2026, 3 h 41 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/69201256/2025_09_28_11_16_16.mp3

Live debating every theist on the planet. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Get Member Perks: https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone/join https://patreon.com/Deconstruction_Zone --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUPPORT THE STREAM: https://venmo.com/u/JHCOFFEEFUND https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/JHCOFFEEFUND https://cash.app/$JHCOFFEEFUND --------------------------------------------------------------------- SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS: https://www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction.zone https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone https://www.youtube.com/@DZDebates https://www.twitch.tv/deconstructionzone_ https://www.instagram.com/deconstruction_zone/ https://clapperapp.com/Justin_DZ https://x.com/Justin_DZ_ https://discord.com/invite/WmeAmrhkxZ https://linktr.ee/justin_____ Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/deconstruction-zone--6451535/support.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Okay, now it's going now now we're live friends. Uh,
[0:09] Speaker 1: sorry for the delay their friends, apologize for that.
[0:14] Speaker 2: Or are we live?
[0:15] Speaker 3: We're live now?
[0:17] Speaker 2: Okay. I made the mistake of apologizing for having a
[0:22] Speaker 2: brand glitch or for preferring a tech glitch. And given
[0:25] Speaker 2: that our account name is unapologetic, I guess that was
[0:27] Speaker 2: a mistake.
[0:30] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's walking backwards on the name.
[0:32] Speaker 4: Man.
[0:33] Speaker 2: It really is all right, we.
[0:35] Speaker 1: Should be We should be ready to rock and roll friends.
[0:38] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here.
[0:43] Speaker 2: The current version has like Forrest is the special guests
[0:48] Speaker 2: we should probably have no no Danny, Danny's chunnel's at
[0:53] Speaker 2: is it?
[0:53] Speaker 5: Is it?
[0:53] Speaker 2: Danny phil talk? Yes, that's right, okay, great.
[0:56] Speaker 3: Let me check it.
[0:58] Speaker 2: I fixed it, Dori.
[0:59] Speaker 1: But of being a bouta boom? All right, very good.
[1:02] Speaker 1: We I think we're ready rock and roll friends. I
[1:04] Speaker 1: think everything's working.
[1:05] Speaker 3: Sorry for the delay. OBS on TikTok oh, Yeah, I
[1:09] Speaker 3: didn't go on TikTok yet.
[1:11] Speaker 1: I updated OBS over the weekend because they kind of
[1:14] Speaker 1: force you to and they broke one of the features.
[1:17] Speaker 1: So now I had to do a workaround for it,
[1:20] Speaker 1: because thanks Obs. If it's not broke, fix it till
[1:24] Speaker 1: it is. That's the mantra of obs. Anyways, we are
[1:29] Speaker 1: live now and we've got a special guest. We've got
[1:30] Speaker 1: our friend Danny with us here today. Good to see you, Danny.
[1:34] Speaker 2: Thanks filling in for philosophy Ian.
[1:38] Speaker 6: Yeah, and then.
[1:40] Speaker 1: Let me open the guest box. Glad to have you, Danny. Okay,
[1:44] Speaker 1: the guest box is open on YouTube and on TikTok. Friends,
[1:48] Speaker 1: I'm going to join up my TikTok account before I
[1:51] Speaker 1: forget Danny.
[1:52] Speaker 2: If you want to hop in on TikTok so on
[1:54] Speaker 2: people who are following you can see that you're live
[1:57] Speaker 2: by all means you don't have to though.
[1:59] Speaker 7: All right, all right, thanks, let me know. Yeah, I don't.
[2:00] Speaker 7: I think my phone is over there, so I'm just
[2:02] Speaker 7: gonna let it go.
[2:05] Speaker 2: Oops. Sorry, I got you. I got you.
[2:06] Speaker 3: Don't worrying.
[2:09] Speaker 7: While you're sitting that up. I've always wanted to ask,
[2:13] Speaker 7: is all the math behind you?
[2:15] Speaker 8: Blitz?
[2:15] Speaker 7: Is that like legit?
[2:17] Speaker 2: It's real? You know, lots of people ask this. So
[2:20] Speaker 2: what happened is when I first started when I when
[2:22] Speaker 2: I was first starting my TikTok account, I needed some
[2:25] Speaker 2: sort of logo and so I was just scrolling through
[2:28] Speaker 2: my photos on my phone, and the way that I
[2:30] Speaker 2: would take notes, Like so i'd meet with my PhD
[2:32] Speaker 2: supervisor and I would take notes of the blackboard. Rather
[2:35] Speaker 2: than writing stuff down, I would just take a picture.
[2:36] Speaker 2: And this is literally just a picture from some like
[2:38] Speaker 2: scratch work that me and my PhD supervisor we're working on,
[2:41] Speaker 2: like sometime at the end of my PhD. And it
[2:44] Speaker 2: just I made it my profile picture, and I'm like, well,
[2:46] Speaker 2: I need like some sort of generic kind of background
[2:48] Speaker 2: because I don't have books and stuff to like have
[2:50] Speaker 2: behind me, And so I made up my background as well,
[2:52] Speaker 2: and it kind of just stuck. So yeah, no, this
[2:54] Speaker 2: is this is like real stuff that's probably in my
[2:56] Speaker 2: dissertation somewhere.
[2:59] Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I'm about to say the same thing.
[3:03] Speaker 1: I think i'd maybe make it through the introduction of
[3:05] Speaker 1: your dissertation and says about it.
[3:07] Speaker 2: The introduction is, in my view, pretty well written. I
[3:11] Speaker 2: would say I wrote it, so of course I would say.
[3:15] Speaker 1: That hold under saying Blitz is muted on TikTok. Let
[3:19] Speaker 1: mean double check the audio mixer.
[3:22] Speaker 2: That's weird.
[3:24] Speaker 1: Sorry, he should not be muted. Now I apologize. I
[3:27] Speaker 1: had a setting turned off for a different stream I
[3:30] Speaker 1: was doing yesterday testing.
[3:36] Speaker 2: All right, we're good there. And also, hey, Danny, so
[3:41] Speaker 2: middle person is also muted.
[3:44] Speaker 7: Oh I'm muted person.
[3:49] Speaker 1: Actually now that, now that we're in the room, I
[3:52] Speaker 1: forgot I should put it. Put my name up here,
[3:57] Speaker 1: all right, so we have names on the screen. Danny
[4:00] Speaker 1: is not middle person despite him being in the middle.
[4:04] Speaker 1: All right, friends, we should have some guests loaded up
[4:07] Speaker 1: any minute.
[4:07] Speaker 9: Now.
[4:07] Speaker 1: I'm gonna look through and read our super chat. Thank
[4:10] Speaker 1: you so much for being here. C Bar, thank you
[4:13] Speaker 1: for the two ninety nine super Thanks. We super appreciate
[4:16] Speaker 1: that friend. And also Larry Beck is with us this morning.
[4:20] Speaker 1: Welcome in to Sunday School.
[4:22] Speaker 3: Larry Beck.
[4:23] Speaker 1: We appreciate the ten dollars super thanks. And Eli, thank
[4:27] Speaker 1: you so much for the fifteen dollars super super chat.
[4:29] Speaker 1: Says love to see Danny's inclusion with my favorite creators.
[4:32] Speaker 1: He was the first person who made me care about
[4:35] Speaker 1: TikTok lives. Keep up the unholy work, guys, that's some
[4:39] Speaker 1: high praise. Flattering Yeah, and last one from mindus, thank
[4:46] Speaker 1: you for the five dollar super Chatmandat has finally caught
[4:48] Speaker 1: you guys. Thanks for all you do finding this channel
[4:51] Speaker 1: was like finding out your favorite solo musician made a superband.
[4:56] Speaker 3: That's awesome.
[4:57] Speaker 2: You know, the worst part about superbands is that they're
[4:59] Speaker 2: often so much worse than the actual bands that the
[5:02] Speaker 2: musicians come from.
[5:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think because it's more than just being good,
[5:07] Speaker 1: like you have to be able to work together.
[5:09] Speaker 2: There's there's some Yeah, there's some synergy required.
[5:11] Speaker 1: Synergy is the right word. That's a really good word actually,
[5:14] Speaker 1: And Gretchen, great to see you this morning. Thank you
[5:18] Speaker 1: for the find our supertest, says Hear about the new
[5:20] Speaker 1: discoveries by Christian paleontologists. They found Contextosaurus and a Presupposaurus
[5:28] Speaker 1: rex l l Hail atheism O and rock guard for
[5:32] Speaker 1: Doug big w Yeah.
[5:34] Speaker 7: I know this.
[5:35] Speaker 1: If they're claiming that they found Contextosaurus, I don't believe it.
[5:38] Speaker 1: They they've never read a single word of context from
[5:41] Speaker 1: the Bible. But I do believe that they've stumbled upon
[5:44] Speaker 1: a couple presupp pre supposaurus.
[5:48] Speaker 3: That's a tough word for.
[5:51] Speaker 1: Everyone who don't like if you're here and you know
[5:54] Speaker 1: doctor Blitz and you know me and you don't know Danny, Danny,
[5:58] Speaker 1: can you tell people kind of what the content you
[6:01] Speaker 1: engage in and what your training is in.
[6:04] Speaker 5: Yeah, so.
[6:06] Speaker 7: My training is in philosophy. I've a couple of degrees
[6:09] Speaker 7: in philosophy, and I'm mostly interested in online and having
[6:15] Speaker 7: discussions about philosophy religion, although I talk about other things
[6:17] Speaker 7: as well. Yeah, I basically do something like this, except
[6:22] Speaker 7: it's just usually me. Sometimes I collab with other people, obviously,
[6:26] Speaker 7: but yeah, I just get guessed on and I talk
[6:29] Speaker 7: about Christianity. I mostly talk about Christianity because I know
[6:33] Speaker 7: most about Christianity as far as other religions go. I
[6:37] Speaker 7: was a Christian for about, you know, twenty years. I
[6:40] Speaker 7: think I remember being a Christian in nineteen ninety nine.
[6:42] Speaker 7: Let's just put it that way.
[6:44] Speaker 1: You were Jesus freak.
[6:48] Speaker 7: I was, I remember it, and I left Christianity in
[6:51] Speaker 7: twenty twenty. So I'm actually rather new atheist. People might
[6:57] Speaker 7: think that I've been an atheist for a while, but no. So, yeah,
[7:00] Speaker 7: I do stuff like that. I like talking about that
[7:02] Speaker 7: kind of thing.
[7:02] Speaker 2: So COVID pulled you away from God. By the way
[7:08] Speaker 2: people are saying, Danny's voice is quite low on YouTube
[7:11] Speaker 2: and on TikTok, so that you can.
[7:14] Speaker 3: Turn them up.
[7:15] Speaker 1: Hold on, he should be louder now, I don't know
[7:17] Speaker 1: how loud it's gonna be loud?
[7:18] Speaker 7: Is it louder?
[7:19] Speaker 2: Is it better?
[7:19] Speaker 5: Guys?
[7:20] Speaker 7: Is that the TikTok people that are saying that?
[7:22] Speaker 5: Or no?
[7:22] Speaker 7: No, this is YouTube YouTube?
[7:24] Speaker 2: People's both people.
[7:25] Speaker 1: Okay, I do like the that's better. Okay, they're saying
[7:31] Speaker 1: it's better. Great? Great, all right, let's grab our first guest. Uh,
[7:36] Speaker 1: first guest name? Bring in the bacon? So I can
[7:40] Speaker 1: only assume that they're not Islamic.
[7:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's some.
[7:50] Speaker 3: Bacon, can you.
[7:51] Speaker 1: Yeah? I don't know what's going on with your microphone,
[7:54] Speaker 1: but I assume you're coughing right into it.
[7:56] Speaker 3: Anyways, are you at least eighteen?
[7:59] Speaker 10: And I'm not supposed to be in here.
[8:01] Speaker 8: I'm not even mean to join this.
[8:02] Speaker 6: I'm so sorry.
[8:03] Speaker 2: You're good.
[8:05] Speaker 7: You have a good day.
[8:06] Speaker 1: Cheers, have a good one later. Yeah, we get a
[8:11] Speaker 1: few butt dials. All right, let me grab the next guest.
[8:13] Speaker 1: Looks like Donald is next in line, so we'll grab
[8:16] Speaker 1: Donald Donald.
[8:24] Speaker 3: Hew, it's up, not too much. Donald.
[8:27] Speaker 1: Are you at least eighteen? And do you believe in
[8:31] Speaker 1: some concept of a god?
[8:33] Speaker 6: I do, yes, I am twenty eight years old, and
[8:35] Speaker 6: I am a Christian cool.
[8:37] Speaker 2: Okay, and why, oh, is is that serious?
[8:44] Speaker 11: Okay? Yeah, so I'm a Christian serious question?
[8:46] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[8:46] Speaker 6: Yeah, sure, I was raising the Christian faith. I took
[8:50] Speaker 6: a long period of time to kind of like, if
[8:53] Speaker 6: you will, question my faith, and unlike Danny were kind
[8:57] Speaker 6: of when Danny with COVID struck, you probably kind of
[8:59] Speaker 6: like deconstrunk did. I took COVID as a chance to
[9:02] Speaker 6: kind of do deeper and I found that, you know,
[9:05] Speaker 6: through what I saw and the evidence I had at
[9:08] Speaker 6: my hands, which was still kind of requires a lot
[9:10] Speaker 6: of faith, I still found God. So I couldn't come
[9:15] Speaker 6: up with it. I couldn't come up with a lot
[9:16] Speaker 6: of answers I had, so like a lot of questions
[9:18] Speaker 6: I had.
[9:18] Speaker 8: I'm sorry, is.
[9:20] Speaker 7: It that you dug deeper during COVID because of all
[9:22] Speaker 7: the mess or because some people? Yeah? Okay, yeah, and
[9:26] Speaker 7: there are a lot of people like you, But I
[9:28] Speaker 7: just don't understand it. Right, it's through the suffering that
[9:31] Speaker 7: you find God, right, And to me, it just sounds
[9:36] Speaker 7: like a coping mechanism, because, if anything, I wouldn't expect
[9:40] Speaker 7: that kind of thing. If there was a God that
[9:42] Speaker 7: cared about everybody's well being.
[9:45] Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, like, so obviously, I mean that comes
[9:48] Speaker 6: like the problem of evil obviously, So the problem of evil,
[9:51] Speaker 6: I mean like it's a obviously a complex thing. The
[9:55] Speaker 6: problem is that I have to obviously grant God certain properties,
[9:58] Speaker 6: and if I granted these property is it quite literally
[10:01] Speaker 6: makes puts me in a position where I can't question
[10:04] Speaker 6: that bad things that occur. I find it necessarily to
[10:07] Speaker 6: be the case that if I grant God all his properties,
[10:10] Speaker 6: if evil does occur, there has to be therefore a
[10:14] Speaker 6: reason for it occurring, and it has ultimate good.
[10:18] Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm just sorry for butting in, But like,
[10:22] Speaker 2: how much evil would you have to see in the
[10:24] Speaker 2: world in order for that to change your credence in
[10:26] Speaker 2: the fact that it all good God exists.
[10:28] Speaker 6: I would say it's an unquantifiable number.
[10:31] Speaker 2: So any amount of that, there's no amount of evil
[10:34] Speaker 2: that could make you change your view on this.
[10:37] Speaker 6: Well, correct, because when I when I think of evil,
[10:40] Speaker 6: I think of evil just being the absence of good.
[10:41] Speaker 6: I believe that God obviously created a system in which
[10:45] Speaker 6: we reside where evil does occur. So therefore I would
[10:48] Speaker 6: kind of also have to posit that God is the
[10:50] Speaker 6: creator of evil, right, I just believe it to be
[10:53] Speaker 6: the case that God created things and gave us this
[10:56] Speaker 6: will to do as we will, and because there is
[10:58] Speaker 6: an absence of good, evil is the result of this.
[11:01] Speaker 6: So I mean there is, like it's unquantifiable number. If
[11:04] Speaker 6: someone commits a crime answer your question, like genocide for example, terrible.
[11:10] Speaker 6: I mean, it shouldn't accord.
[11:11] Speaker 2: What if, like everybody was hitler?
[11:14] Speaker 11: If everybody okay, you actually tell you what you know?
[11:16] Speaker 6: What when I said unquantifiable, let me be clear, Okay,
[11:19] Speaker 6: if everybody on earth was hitler, then no, I mean,
[11:22] Speaker 6: like then that wouldn't really make sense.
[11:23] Speaker 11: It wouldn't follow, right.
[11:25] Speaker 7: Why couldn't God have a good reason for allowing that?
[11:29] Speaker 6: On your view, I mean logically speaking, I guess then
[11:33] Speaker 6: he could have a good reason.
[11:35] Speaker 7: And if that's the point, the point is that you've
[11:38] Speaker 7: destroyed the concepts of good and evil and you can
[11:41] Speaker 7: excuse so much evil with, you know, with saying oh,
[11:45] Speaker 7: God had morally sufficient reasons for doing so, to the
[11:47] Speaker 7: point where you can't recognize whether you're this creator is
[11:51] Speaker 7: good or evil, Like everything's consistent with either an evil
[11:55] Speaker 7: being or a good being.
[11:57] Speaker 6: Sure, okay, we'll have to answer your question. Okay, yeah,
[11:59] Speaker 6: and the and the hypothetical you gave, we would obviously
[12:04] Speaker 6: be able if we if we witness everyone being hitler, Okay,
[12:08] Speaker 6: we would be able to come to the conclusion that
[12:09] Speaker 6: maybe God doesn't exist. But in the real in the
[12:11] Speaker 6: reality that we live in, we obviously have a balance
[12:13] Speaker 6: of good and evil, and there is more good. And
[12:16] Speaker 6: would you guys agree to that when I say this,
[12:18] Speaker 6: there's more good than evil? Or would you say.
[12:22] Speaker 1: I have no idea how you could quantify that, And.
[12:25] Speaker 7: I don't think I think there's important. There's an important
[12:28] Speaker 7: point to be made. It wouldn't matter the amount the quantity.
[12:32] Speaker 7: Because when we evaluate let's say teachers or parents, all
[12:37] Speaker 7: it takes is one egregious thing to rule them out
[12:39] Speaker 7: is good.
[12:40] Speaker 2: Right.
[12:40] Speaker 7: You could imagine a parent that always has fed their children,
[12:43] Speaker 7: takes them to school, you know, gives them the xbox whatever,
[12:47] Speaker 7: and then they just decide to punish their kid by
[12:49] Speaker 7: cutting off their hand. Right, that one act is enough
[12:53] Speaker 7: to say that you know they're evil parents, and it
[12:56] Speaker 7: doesn't matter how much good that they've done in the past. Right,
[13:01] Speaker 7: It's there are some things that if a parent does
[13:04] Speaker 7: or allows, it disqualifies them from being good.
[13:07] Speaker 6: Right, So okay, you know clarification, So for moving forward
[13:11] Speaker 6: the conversation, how are you using the word evil because
[13:14] Speaker 6: cutting off someone hand someone's hand is evil? Yeah, but
[13:16] Speaker 6: like I'm taking away someone's video game is not evil,
[13:20] Speaker 6: like punishing that tub, but taking care of their video
[13:22] Speaker 6: games is not evil.
[13:23] Speaker 7: When we're talking about the problem of evil, we're just
[13:25] Speaker 7: using the word evil to mean that which is antithetical
[13:28] Speaker 7: to what a good being would want.
[13:30] Speaker 6: Gotcha? So then like what when I'm using evil, I'm
[13:33] Speaker 6: thinking like profoundly, like like wicked, right.
[13:35] Speaker 7: Like I understand, right, But but in the context of
[13:40] Speaker 7: the what's called the problem of evil, it's just that
[13:43] Speaker 7: what that which good is opposed to that which a
[13:46] Speaker 7: good being wouldn't want or would prevent.
[13:50] Speaker 6: Okay, do you believe that it is a case that
[13:53] Speaker 6: God like would not want a child to be punished
[13:57] Speaker 6: for sake of like growth, Like, do you believe that
[13:59] Speaker 6: like like some evils? Well again, so could you believe
[14:03] Speaker 6: that some evils can occur that just have ultimate beneficial like.
[14:08] Speaker 11: You know, I benefit to the individual, Like.
[14:10] Speaker 7: There might I'm fine to say that there might be
[14:13] Speaker 7: some suffering or some punishment that's compatible with a good being.
[14:18] Speaker 7: But it's the amount and it's the quality of suffering
[14:21] Speaker 7: that I see that disqualify that that you know, there's
[14:25] Speaker 7: another in other words, types of punishments, types of suffering
[14:29] Speaker 7: that a good being are, according to our standards, which
[14:32] Speaker 7: just wouldn't allow even if it was the sake of punishment.
[14:37] Speaker 6: Gotcha. Okay, So just get an idea of what you
[14:41] Speaker 6: when you were a reperds and can you give me
[14:42] Speaker 6: some examples of what you're referring to when you're saying
[14:45] Speaker 6: you have enough evidence of evil?
[14:47] Speaker 7: Yeah, So in the same criteria I have for parents, Actually,
[14:50] Speaker 7: if a parent allows a child to be starved, okay,
[14:55] Speaker 7: we would disqualify them as being a good parent in
[14:58] Speaker 7: the same way God allows many including children to starve,
[15:01] Speaker 7: it disqualifies them as being a good God.
[15:05] Speaker 6: Okay, gotcha? So okay, so like, okay, so the same
[15:08] Speaker 6: criteria you apply to parenting to like, yeah, I mean,
[15:10] Speaker 6: it's a fair it's a fair way to do this, Okay,
[15:12] Speaker 6: So let me the only thing how to how to
[15:16] Speaker 6: attack it. Then I would just say, like if God
[15:21] Speaker 6: is like the source of all good in my argument,
[15:24] Speaker 6: if God was the source of like all goodness, then
[15:27] Speaker 6: he couldn't be evil in himself, right.
[15:30] Speaker 1: The source you go ahead, I guess my question is,
[15:34] Speaker 1: how are you getting to the point where you're just
[15:36] Speaker 1: arbitrarily assuming that the God is one hundred percent good? Like,
[15:40] Speaker 1: how did you come to that conclusion other than that
[15:43] Speaker 1: seems to be what you want.
[15:44] Speaker 5: It to be?
[15:46] Speaker 11: Sure?
[15:46] Speaker 6: So I mean when I'm when I when I'm making
[15:47] Speaker 6: this statement that God is all good, it's obviously presupposed
[15:50] Speaker 6: to my belief. So therefore I have to grant and
[15:52] Speaker 6: then he's all good to move forward with my worldview. Now,
[15:55] Speaker 6: if you're asking me, how do I come to the
[15:56] Speaker 6: conclusion in itself to move forward with that percept position?
[16:00] Speaker 6: I would just say that he is all good based
[16:02] Speaker 6: on my incidotals.
[16:04] Speaker 7: But there's a nuance here that needs to be captured.
[16:09] Speaker 2: Right.
[16:09] Speaker 7: Think about the disciples. They had to evaluate based on
[16:14] Speaker 7: their own standards, right, based on what they valued whether
[16:17] Speaker 7: Jesus measures up to the Messiah.
[16:20] Speaker 2: Right.
[16:21] Speaker 7: They couldn't just Jesus couldn't just say oh, I'm by
[16:23] Speaker 7: definition good, right. They they pointed to Jesus' virtues, his acts, right,
[16:30] Speaker 7: what he allowed, what he prevented? As they measured all
[16:34] Speaker 7: of that and like, Okay, this is either consistent or
[16:37] Speaker 7: inconsistent with what how our God, how God should be.
[16:41] Speaker 7: And so you can kind of do the same thing
[16:43] Speaker 7: with the term creator, right, substitute Jesus a creator. So
[16:46] Speaker 7: let's say there is a creator of the universe. Right,
[16:48] Speaker 7: we have our values about what a good creator and
[16:51] Speaker 7: an evil creator might do or allow. And all I'm
[16:55] Speaker 7: saying is that at best, this creator is indifferent. And
[16:58] Speaker 7: what's I think at as probable is it's kind of sadistic.
[17:03] Speaker 6: Well, I mean you use important, you use a pretty
[17:05] Speaker 6: good word that though you said that best in different, right,
[17:07] Speaker 6: I think in different can be good.
[17:09] Speaker 7: No, No, if you're indifferent to starvation, right, that's a
[17:13] Speaker 7: bad thing.
[17:15] Speaker 6: But wouldn't we have to come to the again. So
[17:18] Speaker 6: this all rolls down to like, if I ask God
[17:24] Speaker 6: to reveal himself to me, or if he reveals himself
[17:27] Speaker 6: to us in the way that we want him to,
[17:30] Speaker 6: which I would believe to be the case, that would
[17:32] Speaker 6: like make you guys convert to Christianity, which I'm not
[17:35] Speaker 6: sure what you guys is evidence you would need? Would
[17:37] Speaker 6: be if he were, if he were to show that
[17:39] Speaker 6: every single individual would just be a Christian well correct.
[17:42] Speaker 1: I mean I could be persuaded to believe in a God,
[17:45] Speaker 1: but I could never be persuaded to believe in biblical Christianity,
[17:48] Speaker 1: being that the Bible is so many falsehoods, Like you
[17:51] Speaker 1: would have to get rid of the Bible for me
[17:53] Speaker 1: to believe that Christianity was true. It had to be
[17:55] Speaker 1: something different than what we read in the Bible.
[17:58] Speaker 6: Okay, So like in order for you just to posit God,
[18:01] Speaker 6: like the ponderance evidence that you would need if you
[18:03] Speaker 6: were to show himself in that way, we would all
[18:05] Speaker 6: just posit God.
[18:06] Speaker 11: So he leaves enough.
[18:08] Speaker 6: He leaves enough room for like for us to again
[18:10] Speaker 6: free will, for us to choose.
[18:13] Speaker 11: Now, well, probably.
[18:15] Speaker 5: We don't have.
[18:17] Speaker 1: He tortures us with fire for all of eternity if
[18:19] Speaker 1: we don't choose him. That's coercia at best.
[18:22] Speaker 6: Sure, Well, I mean like, well, hell isn't really biblical
[18:24] Speaker 6: in that sense to the extent of like it's like, well,
[18:27] Speaker 6: well we can get to that point in a minute.
[18:28] Speaker 6: I guess what I'm saying is like if I were
[18:29] Speaker 6: to like throw a punch at like blitz and like
[18:32] Speaker 6: some magic like bubble stop that punch always.
[18:39] Speaker 1: Being up on the Jewish guys, what's going out with
[18:41] Speaker 1: these Christians?
[18:42] Speaker 10: Okay?
[18:43] Speaker 6: If I were to throw a punch at any of
[18:45] Speaker 6: any of the three of you guys, okay, and some
[18:46] Speaker 6: magical bubble obviously popped up and stopped me from punching you,
[18:49] Speaker 6: we would have to then ask ourselves, okay, there is
[18:51] Speaker 6: some outside source stopping the evil from occurring. We would
[18:54] Speaker 6: have to posit something. Am I right when I say
[18:56] Speaker 6: this to make this assumption.
[18:59] Speaker 3: Something?
[19:00] Speaker 6: Yeah?
[19:00] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[19:00] Speaker 1: But wait, yeah, the problem is something is something. Whether
[19:04] Speaker 1: that something is spiritual, it is a different question.
[19:06] Speaker 6: That that's fair, That that's fair when I guess the
[19:08] Speaker 6: point I'm actually getting to here is that if something
[19:10] Speaker 6: stopped it, if evil could not occur, we would have
[19:12] Speaker 6: to posit an outside source. So he leaves enough room
[19:16] Speaker 6: for things to occur where there it gives us a choice.
[19:19] Speaker 6: But I believe that the evidence he provides to watch
[19:21] Speaker 6: is quite clear and obvious, and.
[19:24] Speaker 3: He leaves off what evidence.
[19:27] Speaker 6: Well, I mean, there's this numerous like pieces of evidence,
[19:29] Speaker 6: you know, basically like how.
[19:31] Speaker 1: Because all the evidence I'm aware of would lead me
[19:33] Speaker 1: to believe that this god is fake.
[19:36] Speaker 6: You have a piece and we can like attack one
[19:38] Speaker 6: by one and I just go from there, like, do
[19:40] Speaker 6: you have some.
[19:40] Speaker 2: Before we get it? Before we get into that, I'd
[19:42] Speaker 2: like to address a metapoint, which is that it sounds like,
[19:44] Speaker 2: on the one hand, you're saying that like, oh, well,
[19:46] Speaker 2: he can't give us evidence because then he would take
[19:48] Speaker 2: away our choice and then they and then on the
[19:50] Speaker 2: other hand, in the same sentence, you're saying, oh, but
[19:52] Speaker 2: he did give us a lot of evidence, So okay, sorry,
[19:55] Speaker 2: it seems like you can't hold both.
[19:57] Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, you're right, I can't. I kind of can't
[19:58] Speaker 6: hold both. It wouldn't they kill Okay, So what I'm
[20:00] Speaker 6: I guess what a way I'm warning this is is
[20:02] Speaker 6: that he leaves enough evidence for speculation, but he doesn't
[20:07] Speaker 6: make himself known absolute because if he does, we would
[20:12] Speaker 6: all then therefore, to say God exists? Is that a
[20:15] Speaker 6: fair statement?
[20:15] Speaker 1: But that's what he wants. It says in the Bible
[20:18] Speaker 1: on at least two different occasions, as God's desire for
[20:20] Speaker 1: all of his people to know him, And that's actually
[20:23] Speaker 1: the end result, according to Jeremiah thirty one, is that
[20:26] Speaker 1: all people would know him, and he physically and verbally
[20:30] Speaker 1: manifested to particular people in the Bible and they were
[20:33] Speaker 1: considered people of great faith. So if he can manifest
[20:36] Speaker 1: to Abraham and Moses and others and they're still able
[20:41] Speaker 1: to retain their faith, there's no reason why he shouldn't
[20:43] Speaker 1: manifest for us.
[20:45] Speaker 7: And not only that, but you know, Jesus being the
[20:48] Speaker 7: pinnacle of manifestation of God, the incarnation of God, you know,
[20:51] Speaker 7: not appeared to people that were murdering Christians, right like Paul.
[20:56] Speaker 5: Right.
[20:57] Speaker 7: That's another thing I don't get is that God does
[21:01] Speaker 7: absolutely manifest or didn't show himself to people that hate
[21:05] Speaker 7: hated him, right. So I don't see how I'm that
[21:08] Speaker 7: how I don't think I hate I hate it. I
[21:11] Speaker 7: hate Christians as much as Saul hated Christians, right, Yet
[21:14] Speaker 7: God appeared to him, right. So that's another inconsistency that
[21:18] Speaker 7: I'm seeing.
[21:20] Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, sure, so I guess like, okay, to go
[21:23] Speaker 6: with Lake. I mean, they'll attack like one by one. Here,
[21:26] Speaker 6: I would say to Justin, so in regards to what
[21:31] Speaker 6: you're saying, for you say there's evidence to the contrary,
[21:34] Speaker 6: I would just simply say that I believe there is
[21:37] Speaker 6: numerous Again, you already asked like what, okay, let's just
[21:40] Speaker 6: say like.
[21:43] Speaker 11: There is no rational.
[21:44] Speaker 6: Explanation for our existence. And when I say this, what
[21:48] Speaker 6: I'm saying is is that if you take into consideration
[21:51] Speaker 6: all the evidence that I don't believe there is, when
[21:55] Speaker 6: I'm saying none, I'm not saying it's it's an absolute statement.
[21:57] Speaker 1: But I'm sorry to cut you off to be clear
[22:01] Speaker 1: what you're about to do as a God of the
[22:02] Speaker 1: gaps argument, which is not evidence. You're just saying there's
[22:05] Speaker 1: something I personally don't understand. Therefore God. But as it
[22:08] Speaker 1: turns out, like people who don't believe in your God
[22:10] Speaker 1: do have explanations that are rational, you just might not
[22:13] Speaker 1: be aware of them.
[22:15] Speaker 11: Gotcha.
[22:15] Speaker 6: Well, I'm not trying to go to the gap. So
[22:16] Speaker 6: I'm trying to basically do is I'm trying to fill
[22:18] Speaker 6: in here and say that basically, there can be anything
[22:20] Speaker 6: you want to call it, but there is no explanation
[22:22] Speaker 6: rationally for our existence other than external force.
[22:26] Speaker 1: That's just wrong.
[22:28] Speaker 3: That's just wrong.
[22:29] Speaker 6: Okay, Well, so so I mean obviously you just resort to, like,
[22:33] Speaker 6: ultimately you're going to just basically say that that what.
[22:35] Speaker 11: Is your what is your worldview for how it came
[22:38] Speaker 11: to be? Evolution?
[22:41] Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean, evolution seems to be just an
[22:43] Speaker 1: obvious fact. All of the biological world is in favor
[22:47] Speaker 1: of evolution, minus like one percent that still want to
[22:51] Speaker 1: hold onto weird notions of Christianity. But the reality is
[22:56] Speaker 1: like evolution at this point is it's just like if
[22:59] Speaker 1: you don't accept it, it's because you don't know science yet.
[23:04] Speaker 6: Okay, sure, I guess then, like we can just start. Really,
[23:07] Speaker 6: Blitz would probably be better to ask this question too.
[23:09] Speaker 6: So for Blitz, well, no, sorry, just the reason I'm
[23:12] Speaker 6: doing that because he's obviously you're a mathematician, right.
[23:16] Speaker 2: I'm a physicist. Last mathematician depends on.
[23:18] Speaker 6: What is not me Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, sure. So
[23:22] Speaker 6: for Blitz, I mean, like, the way I understand this
[23:24] Speaker 6: is that in our observable reality that we know to
[23:28] Speaker 6: be true, we obviously can't like recreate an actual infinite
[23:32] Speaker 6: or can we do that just in mathematics?
[23:35] Speaker 2: What well, so are you asking about like can we
[23:38] Speaker 2: measure infinity? No, because you can't measure infinity that that
[23:41] Speaker 2: would kind of be, you know, logically impossible. However, what
[23:45] Speaker 2: you could perhapsologically impossible. However, it doesn't that doesn't preclude
[23:50] Speaker 2: physically infinite things from existing. These just might not be
[23:53] Speaker 2: measurable things. For example, our universe might be infinitely large.
[23:56] Speaker 2: There's good reason to suspect that that's the case. For example,
[24:00] Speaker 2: now there is no measuring device that would ever say
[24:02] Speaker 2: infinity when you tried to perform an experiment or perform measurement.
[24:06] Speaker 2: But that doesn't preclude the universe from being infinitely large.
[24:09] Speaker 6: Okay, So then what you're sayingle to me is that,
[24:11] Speaker 6: like infinity works as a concept in math, right, but
[24:13] Speaker 6: that was like a concrete thing in the real world.
[24:15] Speaker 5: He didn't know.
[24:15] Speaker 2: What I'm saying is that it does work at least
[24:18] Speaker 2: in principle, does work as a concrete thing in the
[24:20] Speaker 2: actual world, Like the universe may very well be infinitely large,
[24:24] Speaker 2: like the actual physical universe.
[24:26] Speaker 1: And not to not to butt in, because I'm loving
[24:28] Speaker 1: this conversation, but you believe in a God that is infinite,
[24:31] Speaker 1: So in your worldview, infinite shouldn't be a problem. If
[24:33] Speaker 1: there's no logical inconsistency with infinites existing in your worldview,
[24:38] Speaker 1: then there's not in ours.
[24:41] Speaker 6: Well, I hold to the position that I mean, like
[24:42] Speaker 6: an infinite can exist in terms of God's I mean
[24:45] Speaker 6: God's like his reign in his actual how.
[24:50] Speaker 11: Do you say, this does not act in the real world.
[24:54] Speaker 11: He's just outside of the real world.
[24:56] Speaker 3: So he's say not in he's not omnipresent, He's not
[25:00] Speaker 3: you can.
[25:01] Speaker 6: Operate, so sorry, in the same way that like, you know,
[25:03] Speaker 6: a person that built a computer, Uh, the operator operates
[25:06] Speaker 6: outside of it. I mean they also can operate within it, right,
[25:09] Speaker 6: But the actual hardware, data and the binary coding can't
[25:13] Speaker 6: go outside the actual computer.
[25:14] Speaker 1: So the same I've I've built a lot of computers
[25:16] Speaker 1: in my day, I've never actually entered into the actual
[25:20] Speaker 1: like software computing level and existed there.
[25:24] Speaker 6: But no, No, I was saying, you can't exist, but you
[25:25] Speaker 6: can program correct.
[25:27] Speaker 1: Well, yeah, but I'm still external to it.
[25:29] Speaker 6: So let me ask this question. Can the actual binary
[25:32] Speaker 6: coding of ones and zeros? Can they think outside of
[25:34] Speaker 6: what they are programmed to do?
[25:36] Speaker 1: No, And I can never enter into the binary. I
[25:38] Speaker 1: can never be part of the binary. I can only
[25:40] Speaker 1: manipulate it from the external.
[25:42] Speaker 6: React exactly, so the same way that you can, you
[25:45] Speaker 6: can manipulate it where you can actually be omnipresent from
[25:47] Speaker 6: the external.
[25:48] Speaker 1: No, I'm not president. Try this again. I'm always external
[25:52] Speaker 1: to what's happening in the software. The software is an
[25:54] Speaker 1: abstraction of the physical reality. I can never enter into
[25:58] Speaker 1: the abstraction.
[26:01] Speaker 6: Okay, So when you're saying into the extraction, I'm sorry,
[26:03] Speaker 6: how does it isn't binary a man made concept?
[26:06] Speaker 1: Yes, but it's a physical reality, right, And what's happening
[26:10] Speaker 1: in the computer is a physical reality. And the only
[26:14] Speaker 1: abstract notion you have is how you interact it with
[26:18] Speaker 1: your mind.
[26:18] Speaker 2: Right.
[26:18] Speaker 1: I can never enter the actual computing abstracted world. I
[26:23] Speaker 1: can only manipulate it from the external world. So if
[26:26] Speaker 1: God is omnipresent, that means there's nowhere where he isn't
[26:30] Speaker 1: meaning he's even in the abstract.
[26:32] Speaker 6: Okay, sure, sure, yeah, so I'm willing to actually, yeah,
[26:35] Speaker 6: grant that. I mean, I get what you're saying. But
[26:37] Speaker 6: I guess if.
[26:38] Speaker 1: God is infinite, then there's no logical inconsistency with something
[26:42] Speaker 1: being infinite in the real world unless you just don't
[26:45] Speaker 1: believe that your God exists in the real world, and
[26:46] Speaker 1: then we would agree with you that God is imaginary.
[26:50] Speaker 6: Well, the reason I was mentioning the actual let me
[26:53] Speaker 6: get this the point here. The reason I was mentioning
[26:55] Speaker 6: the computer is that in the same way that the
[26:57] Speaker 6: computer had a beginning, the computer can still exist in
[27:01] Speaker 6: an infinite system. Correct, So if you apply this to God,
[27:05] Speaker 6: obviously I believe that God could have created us to
[27:08] Speaker 6: have a start, but therefore he exists externally in an
[27:10] Speaker 6: infinite I think we're not.
[27:13] Speaker 1: Making We're not making a statement about the computer. We're
[27:16] Speaker 1: still talking about God. The computer is not.
[27:17] Speaker 10: Really.
[27:19] Speaker 6: The reason I'm saying this is because Blitz had said,
[27:21] Speaker 6: or you would said, I'm sorry, that if God is
[27:23] Speaker 6: all good and he's all powerful, therefore he can create
[27:26] Speaker 6: an infinite and it should still be able to fall
[27:28] Speaker 6: in this power that justin said that.
[27:30] Speaker 1: Now, what I'm saying is that is that there's no
[27:33] Speaker 1: logical inconsistency in either of our worldview with an infinite
[27:37] Speaker 1: existing in the actual reality that we live in, because
[27:40] Speaker 1: you believe in something that's infinite, and that infinite thing
[27:44] Speaker 1: is your God. Right, So all you're saying is, when
[27:47] Speaker 1: it comes to logic, there's no logical reason why we
[27:50] Speaker 1: would exclude infinites from the real world. That's all I'm saying.
[27:54] Speaker 2: Okay, Well, when it comes to when it comes to
[27:56] Speaker 2: the physics, like we have actually good reason to think
[27:58] Speaker 2: that our universe is actually infinite large.
[28:02] Speaker 6: But the way I'm confused. But I just I've always
[28:04] Speaker 6: been under the impression that like an actual infinite basically
[28:08] Speaker 6: it just like instant sheets paradoxes.
[28:11] Speaker 2: No, that's just that's just a mistakes.
[28:14] Speaker 7: That A lot of pologies say that, what.
[28:16] Speaker 2: About like, you know, physicists say that, what about what.
[28:19] Speaker 6: We have like the infinite past paradox like Hilbert's Hotel
[28:22] Speaker 6: of paradoxing is like that.
[28:24] Speaker 7: It might be that, it might be I'm not even
[28:26] Speaker 7: prepared to accept this, but I'm willing to grant that
[28:30] Speaker 7: Hilbert's Hotel is incoherent. It doesn't mean therefore there are
[28:32] Speaker 7: no actual infinites.
[28:35] Speaker 6: I mean, wouldn't not necessarily. I mean with the problem
[28:38] Speaker 6: with Hilbert's Hotel is that it tries to put into
[28:40] Speaker 6: place into and to pose it how an infinite can exist.
[28:44] Speaker 7: There's a coherence if there's an incoherence with Hilbert's Hotel
[28:47] Speaker 7: or these other examples. The way I see it, unless
[28:49] Speaker 7: you have an argument, right, is that at best, okay,
[28:52] Speaker 7: maybe Hilbert's Hotel is not possible. Okay, but that doesn't
[28:56] Speaker 7: mean therefore all examples of actual infinities are impossible. Just
[29:00] Speaker 7: you don't get that.
[29:02] Speaker 6: Okay, I guess like could be like, uh, for Blitzon,
[29:07] Speaker 6: I guess if you wan't to prove and it, I
[29:09] Speaker 6: can give an argument, you can tell me their contention
[29:10] Speaker 6: with it.
[29:11] Speaker 2: Let's Yeah, So what's the issue with having an actually
[29:14] Speaker 2: infinitely large universe?
[29:17] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[29:17] Speaker 6: I mean, like so it would be like how to
[29:20] Speaker 6: word this? So I was like, infinity works is like
[29:22] Speaker 6: an idea like in math, you can always like add
[29:25] Speaker 6: like plus one, you can keep going forever. But when
[29:28] Speaker 6: you but when you try to imagine a real completely
[29:31] Speaker 6: infinitely infinity of physical things, contradictions arise.
[29:36] Speaker 2: What's the contradiction?
[29:37] Speaker 6: Okay? And then we can get to like things such
[29:40] Speaker 6: as like Hilbert's hotel.
[29:43] Speaker 2: So you know, what's what's the what's the contradiction in
[29:45] Speaker 2: the infinitely large universe? Maybe maybe we even grant that
[29:48] Speaker 2: you get a paradox from Hilbert's hotel. But Hilbert is
[29:51] Speaker 2: not the infinitely I don't think you do either. Hilbert's
[29:54] Speaker 2: Hotel is not the infinitely large universe. These are distinct ideas, right.
[29:58] Speaker 6: Okay, So you're asking what the actual contradiction in infinite universes?
[30:01] Speaker 2: Yeah, what's the contradiction.
[30:03] Speaker 6: Yeah, I would just say the contradiction would be is
[30:05] Speaker 6: that like, sorry, I'm trying to think how to work it.
[30:07] Speaker 6: So like if the universe doesn't have a beginning, then
[30:10] Speaker 6: it would have.
[30:11] Speaker 2: Been talking about size. We're not talking about age.
[30:14] Speaker 6: Yeah, sure, so the if the infinite was you know,
[30:16] Speaker 6: like never always, never expanding, it would have an infinite
[30:19] Speaker 6: number of past moments.
[30:21] Speaker 2: I mean, we're talking about age, we're talking about size.
[30:25] Speaker 6: So what even when you're saying size, so obviously that well.
[30:27] Speaker 2: The size of the universe, not the age of the universe.
[30:31] Speaker 6: Okay, So like, well, well wouldn't they have to go
[30:33] Speaker 6: hand in hand with each other?
[30:35] Speaker 2: No?
[30:35] Speaker 6: No, okay, So I mean like if the universe had
[30:39] Speaker 6: let's see, mm hmm.
[30:42] Speaker 8: Not sure.
[30:42] Speaker 11: When you're saying for size, you're saying you're asking like evidence.
[30:45] Speaker 2: Like the like my house has a size. My house,
[30:48] Speaker 2: like the house that I in is like, however many thousands,
[30:51] Speaker 2: like two thousands square feet. I don't know how big
[30:53] Speaker 2: of this. I'm just I'm just living here. But my
[30:56] Speaker 2: house has a size. A football stadium has a size,
[30:59] Speaker 2: the Earth has a size, the universe has a size.
[31:02] Speaker 11: Sure, I mean like what's the paradox with.
[31:05] Speaker 2: The universe's size being unbounded being infinite?
[31:09] Speaker 5: Correct?
[31:09] Speaker 11: Well, wasn't it Einstein?
[31:10] Speaker 6: Basically to determine that the universe is always expanding, therefore
[31:14] Speaker 6: it's always shrinking through a singularity.
[31:16] Speaker 2: That that wasn't Einstein And the expansion of the universe
[31:20] Speaker 2: is perfectly compatible with an infinitely large universe.
[31:24] Speaker 11: Can you explain to me then? I'm sorry?
[31:26] Speaker 5: Games?
[31:27] Speaker 7: So like, have you ever played SimCity.
[31:30] Speaker 11: On me?
[31:31] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[31:32] Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, I played sim City?
[31:33] Speaker 7: Yeah okay, So you know in your when you're making it,
[31:36] Speaker 7: you have a finite amount of I guess field or
[31:39] Speaker 7: space to put your little buildings on. Right now, imagine
[31:45] Speaker 7: God gets to make sim City and he creates a
[31:48] Speaker 7: plane where he can build his cities on. But there's
[31:50] Speaker 7: no end to the scroll forever, right, There's just no end.
[31:54] Speaker 7: It's infinitely long, right, and you can put as many
[31:58] Speaker 7: buildings as you want, right. I don't see that God
[32:01] Speaker 7: is so limited as to not be able to do
[32:03] Speaker 7: that with their actual world. And if there's no limitation there,
[32:06] Speaker 7: there's not going to be any limitation whatsoever.
[32:10] Speaker 6: So to be clear, the argument is that things are
[32:12] Speaker 6: essentially like always like stretching. Therefore there's no contradiction because expanding.
[32:15] Speaker 2: No, no, this this is this like the universe could
[32:18] Speaker 2: be static, could be unchanging, could be not expanding and
[32:21] Speaker 2: still be infinite. Okay, just think of a sheet of
[32:25] Speaker 2: paper that doesn't have an end. You just can keep
[32:28] Speaker 2: You could, in principle, keep going in any direction.
[32:31] Speaker 6: Okay, So then I guess then just a question if
[32:34] Speaker 6: from understanding correctly, if this moment right now, Blitz or Dainty,
[32:40] Speaker 6: it's just point a A in a linear like timeline.
[32:46] Speaker 2: Point about timelines, we're talking about sizes.
[32:49] Speaker 6: Well, because the thing would be the issue.
[32:52] Speaker 1: Would be his arguments revolve around trying to debate the
[32:55] Speaker 1: infinity of time.
[32:58] Speaker 11: I mean, I can give you an argument for size.
[33:00] Speaker 7: The thing is is that I think there's an interesting conversation.
[33:03] Speaker 7: And if maybe I asked Blitz and justin what whether
[33:07] Speaker 7: we want to continue talking about it. But I'm I'm
[33:08] Speaker 7: fine to prepare that it that it is impossible. I'm fine.
[33:12] Speaker 7: I'm fine to prepare. I'm and it looks like you
[33:14] Speaker 7: want to talk about time. I'm fine to say that
[33:15] Speaker 7: there's a first moment, there's an infinite series of moments, right,
[33:19] Speaker 7: I don't see how it helps you either way, right,
[33:21] Speaker 7: but we want it for the record where we don't
[33:24] Speaker 7: think that we're committed to that. But if we found
[33:27] Speaker 7: out that.
[33:29] Speaker 11: I'm sorry, I can't kick you off.
[33:30] Speaker 8: Ding.
[33:30] Speaker 6: I just wanted to say to the just the one thing,
[33:32] Speaker 6: justin the reason I was mentioning time is because finite
[33:34] Speaker 6: age implies finite size.
[33:37] Speaker 2: No, no, it doesn't.
[33:39] Speaker 11: Well it does because if the universe begin with the bane.
[33:42] Speaker 2: Well it doesn't imply that the beginning was that the
[33:45] Speaker 2: beginning was finite in size.
[33:48] Speaker 6: Well wait wait, I'm sorry, it wasn't the Big Bang though.
[33:50] Speaker 2: A singularity, a singularity doesn't imply finite in size.
[33:55] Speaker 6: But it doesn't all that doesn't all, like spacetime, everything
[33:58] Speaker 6: break down into singularity.
[34:00] Speaker 3: I don't think you know what singularity means.
[34:01] Speaker 2: So so in the in the standard treatment, what what
[34:05] Speaker 2: a singularity means is that the metric becomes singular. All
[34:08] Speaker 2: that means is that the way that you measure distances
[34:10] Speaker 2: kind of breaks down. But you can still have like
[34:12] Speaker 2: what you would call like an infinite manifold, a manifold
[34:15] Speaker 2: without boundary, manifold that is not compacted, and so on
[34:18] Speaker 2: and so forth. So like there's no, there's no incompatibility.
[34:21] Speaker 2: And in fact, for most of even when even when
[34:25] Speaker 2: physicists thought that the universe had a beginning, which is
[34:28] Speaker 2: not really the consensus anymore, for like the thirty year
[34:32] Speaker 2: period when that was the case, thinking that the universe
[34:35] Speaker 2: was infinitely large was the standard belief. It was the
[34:38] Speaker 2: mainstream belief, and in fact it's still the mainstream belief.
[34:42] Speaker 6: So I have something might not pat r I want
[34:43] Speaker 6: to read you. So, so like this is like okay,
[34:44] Speaker 6: because when Justin mentioned singularity, so I was under the
[34:48] Speaker 6: impression that, like, obviously time can't exist in the singularity
[34:51] Speaker 6: because the singularity that basically represents a point where like
[34:54] Speaker 6: mathematical model of like relativity predicts a collapse of space
[34:57] Speaker 6: time into infinite density. So wouldn't imply that in the
[35:01] Speaker 6: singularity space time itself breaks down?
[35:05] Speaker 1: How can you have infinite density?
[35:08] Speaker 6: Well no, no, not infinite. It says that it basically
[35:10] Speaker 6: is an infinite density and curvature.
[35:12] Speaker 1: So like, if I'm saying, what is what is infinite density?
[35:16] Speaker 6: Well that's why I'm out here to ask Blitz.
[35:18] Speaker 11: I don't know.
[35:19] Speaker 2: So there's so, So, first of all, most physicists don't
[35:24] Speaker 2: think that that the singularity happened. Most physicists just take
[35:28] Speaker 2: it as this is a this is a flaw in
[35:31] Speaker 2: our model, not that it has anything to do with
[35:33] Speaker 2: how the real world exists, because this is exactly the
[35:35] Speaker 2: kind of infinity that is measurable and would lead to
[35:39] Speaker 2: paradoxes like you would never expect to get to uh,
[35:42] Speaker 2: you know, put your pressure gauge on something and have
[35:44] Speaker 2: it read infinity. That that leads to serious physical issues,
[35:48] Speaker 2: which is why I was talking about non measurable infinities
[35:50] Speaker 2: like the size of our universe. So this is this
[35:55] Speaker 2: is to say the singularity is almost certainly not a
[35:57] Speaker 2: real thing. But even if it where, it's not incompatible
[36:01] Speaker 2: with an infinitely large universe. And the reason I say
[36:03] Speaker 2: that is because what you have is you have infinite curvature,
[36:06] Speaker 2: and all that means is that density increases without bound.
[36:09] Speaker 2: That doesn't say anything about size going to zero.
[36:13] Speaker 6: Wait, but if they're okay, yeah, but if the universe,
[36:15] Speaker 6: if this big bang, even if you if you do
[36:17] Speaker 6: grant it, I mean, why you can only travel a
[36:21] Speaker 6: finite distance since that moment.
[36:25] Speaker 2: Yeah. The point is it would have been infinite at
[36:27] Speaker 2: that moment as well. So prior to the infinite infinite sad.
[36:32] Speaker 2: If the un versus infinite now, then it would have
[36:34] Speaker 2: been infinite at at all moments in time.
[36:38] Speaker 11: The argument for that.
[36:40] Speaker 2: It follows mathematically.
[36:43] Speaker 6: Okay, I'm just like, again, is it just gonna I've
[36:46] Speaker 6: always been under the impression that basically, I mean, most
[36:48] Speaker 6: people that are atheists hold to the Big Bang as
[36:50] Speaker 6: being like the you know, the the moment or the
[36:53] Speaker 6: very conception.
[36:54] Speaker 11: Of the universe if you will.
[36:55] Speaker 1: No, I don't know as that believes that.
[36:58] Speaker 12: What I did.
[36:59] Speaker 6: They believe the obvious. There is something before it? But
[37:02] Speaker 6: is it space time?
[37:03] Speaker 5: What was it?
[37:03] Speaker 11: That's the question.
[37:05] Speaker 2: It's I mean, like we could get into the details
[37:07] Speaker 2: of like what the models are, but the point, the
[37:09] Speaker 2: point stands is like and you haven't you haven't brought
[37:12] Speaker 2: up a relevant refutation. The point stands is that it
[37:15] Speaker 2: seems like there's no issue with having an infinitely large universe.
[37:19] Speaker 2: Like I mean, you could say, well, you could say that, well,
[37:22] Speaker 2: like maybe an infinitely large universe is incompatible with a
[37:24] Speaker 2: big bang. The math just doesn't bear that, just doesn't
[37:26] Speaker 2: bear that out. Like we could we could derive it
[37:29] Speaker 2: together if you wanted to. It wouldn't really, it probably
[37:32] Speaker 2: wouldn't be a good use of time. But okay, so
[37:35] Speaker 2: were the case even if it were the case that
[37:39] Speaker 2: that like for some reason the universe must have had
[37:42] Speaker 2: couldn't have an eternal past, Because I know that's where
[37:44] Speaker 2: you're going with this, I don't know how that gets
[37:46] Speaker 2: you to God.
[37:47] Speaker 6: Well, maybe we have to first establish the first obviously
[37:50] Speaker 6: premiss before we can get to that. I guess like this,
[37:52] Speaker 6: we try one more argument with you, and I'll let
[37:54] Speaker 6: you be one on another person if you'd.
[37:55] Speaker 1: Like, Well, what I wanted to ask you one question
[37:59] Speaker 1: before you leave, because I'm curious of what you're gonna
[38:01] Speaker 1: do with it, because it sounds like you've you've done
[38:02] Speaker 1: a little bit of like philosophy work. But go ahead
[38:05] Speaker 1: with your argument.
[38:06] Speaker 12: Yeah.
[38:07] Speaker 6: Sure. What I was gonna say, Butcher would just be
[38:09] Speaker 6: like some other is the infinite universe?
[38:12] Speaker 11: In terms of size? I would just say, like, what
[38:15] Speaker 11: is it? They call it?
[38:15] Speaker 6: Like the infinite? Was it the infinite matter problem? And
[38:19] Speaker 6: have you heard that one?
[38:22] Speaker 2: You haven't heard anything described as a problem.
[38:24] Speaker 6: Yeah, sure, So let's say that the universe were infinite,
[38:27] Speaker 6: okay in terms of size? Yeah, Uh, there would be
[38:31] Speaker 6: like an infinite number of stars, galaxies, and planets, but
[38:34] Speaker 6: gravity in infinite distribution would be undefined, so like it
[38:37] Speaker 6: would basically be become cosmic dynamics physically impossible.
[38:41] Speaker 2: No, I mean that doesn't follow. So long as the
[38:43] Speaker 2: distribution is sufficiently spread out, you wouldn't have any issues with, uh,
[38:48] Speaker 2: you know, gravitational potential energy is being undefined, you wouldn't
[38:51] Speaker 2: have any issues with, you know, uh, like the various
[38:55] Speaker 2: differential equations leading to the singularities or anything. It just
[38:57] Speaker 2: doesn't an issue you could, for sample have any like
[39:01] Speaker 2: you like. It's fairly easy to show that you can
[39:03] Speaker 2: have a universe that is infinitely large and just has
[39:08] Speaker 2: one star every I don't know, every thousand light years,
[39:11] Speaker 2: and that universe will be perfectly stable. I mean, it
[39:15] Speaker 2: might recollapse at some point in the future unless you
[39:17] Speaker 2: impose them dark energy constraints, which you know, we can
[39:19] Speaker 2: talk about that, but there's no there's no like failure
[39:23] Speaker 2: for things to be well defined. Yeah, everything nicely behaved.
[39:28] Speaker 6: One of that last part you just said to you
[39:30] Speaker 6: basically denied the second part of the argument, because if
[39:32] Speaker 6: the universe is stretched far enough, you're essentially saying that
[39:36] Speaker 6: There's the problem with that is that like real functioning
[39:39] Speaker 6: physics requires a finite universe. I mean, like that's the problem.
[39:43] Speaker 2: That doesn't Real functioning physics doesn't does not require a
[39:46] Speaker 2: finite universe. Real function in physics operates locally, which means
[39:51] Speaker 2: that it doesn't matter really how big the universe is.
[39:53] Speaker 2: The what's actually happening nearby or what's happening in our
[39:58] Speaker 2: galaxy only depends on the things that are nearby, So
[40:00] Speaker 2: doesn't matter if the universe is infinite or not.
[40:02] Speaker 6: What infinite mass and energy basically just leads to like
[40:05] Speaker 6: undefined quantities.
[40:06] Speaker 11: That's the problem, Like if the universe were infinite.
[40:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's hard, it's not really relevant. You can't
[40:11] Speaker 2: measure relevant for any of the dynamics.
[40:13] Speaker 6: Okay, yeah, fair enough, all right, justin know what was
[40:14] Speaker 6: your question for me? And then and then I'll let you.
[40:16] Speaker 3: Yeah, so, how are you dealing with the logical violations
[40:21] Speaker 3: of the trinity.
[40:24] Speaker 6: In regards to the trinity? That's something I'm still actually
[40:27] Speaker 6: looking into.
[40:27] Speaker 10: Man.
[40:28] Speaker 6: Listen, there's a lot of stuff that you know, I've
[40:30] Speaker 6: been watching some videos. What in particular, two are you refered.
[40:35] Speaker 1: To its exactly? Yeah, I'll let Danny take this. This
[40:40] Speaker 1: is my favorite subject for Danny to talk about.
[40:44] Speaker 7: It just looks like when you read the Nice and Creed,
[40:47] Speaker 7: you've got three gods. Right, They're all a lot of
[40:49] Speaker 7: distinct persons, yet they have the same predicate is God?
[40:52] Speaker 7: If you count normally, you just get three gods.
[40:55] Speaker 6: Sure, So I kind of was working with the divine council.
[40:58] Speaker 6: So I believe that there is a God. Okay, Well,
[41:02] Speaker 6: I mean we read about this, is it in a
[41:04] Speaker 6: zeco or correct? I'm not sorry, not a zeco? Where
[41:06] Speaker 6: do we read of the divine councils?
[41:08] Speaker 1: And bunch of them, but the most famous is Psalm
[41:10] Speaker 1: eighty two, and it again elsewhere, but Psalm eighty two is
[41:14] Speaker 1: the most popular.
[41:15] Speaker 6: Correct, Okay, So I've been looking into the vine council.
[41:17] Speaker 6: So obviously we have God where he instructs that he
[41:19] Speaker 6: has a divine council that he oversees. And I believe
[41:22] Speaker 6: that obviously, correct me if I'm wrong. Justin in Hebrew
[41:25] Speaker 6: when they spoke of my game, I only begotten son
[41:27] Speaker 6: begotten means unique in like Hebrew.
[41:29] Speaker 11: There's it's another way for using the word forgotten.
[41:32] Speaker 1: Typically they use the verb yelid to refer to the
[41:35] Speaker 1: beginning of the child, which is it could be used
[41:38] Speaker 1: metaphorically or physically, like whether you have a physical child
[41:41] Speaker 1: or a metaphorical child, able to use the same Hebrew words,
[41:45] Speaker 1: Like in Psalm two it says that David is a
[41:47] Speaker 1: begotten son of God, which clearly doesn't mean he was
[41:50] Speaker 1: physically born by God. It's being used in some sort
[41:54] Speaker 1: of a metaphorical sense, gotcha.
[41:57] Speaker 7: Although niceeing Trinitarians will say that Jesus literally came from
[42:03] Speaker 7: the Father, it's not metaphorical for them.
[42:07] Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, so it depends on the denomination.
[42:08] Speaker 11: But I guess to answer your question, I guess I'm just.
[42:10] Speaker 7: Talking about I know, I'm talking about people that wrote
[42:12] Speaker 7: the Nicene Creed A nice.
[42:15] Speaker 6: To be perfectly honest with you, I haven't dug deep
[42:19] Speaker 6: into the n Ice and Creed myself, So I mean,
[42:21] Speaker 6: I like to have a conversation with you. I just
[42:23] Speaker 6: haven't been.
[42:23] Speaker 11: I believe.
[42:24] Speaker 6: I actually I saw you begin to have a conversation
[42:26] Speaker 6: on like Jubilee. Didn't you about that?
[42:28] Speaker 13: I believe?
[42:32] Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, but yeah no, So I've just been looking
[42:35] Speaker 6: into that and obviously like how there's this council that
[42:37] Speaker 6: he oversees. So I'm not quite sure in terms of
[42:41] Speaker 6: if it's angels, if it's like, you know, Gabriel or
[42:44] Speaker 6: like people like that.
[42:45] Speaker 11: But there's that.
[42:45] Speaker 1: Well, I actually think you're on a good path right now.
[42:48] Speaker 1: I think in order to make Christianity coherent you have
[42:51] Speaker 1: to abandon the e trinity. You can go to some
[42:53] Speaker 1: sort of henotheistic model where Jesus is like an archangel,
[42:56] Speaker 1: and I think that's workable. But the whole three persons
[42:59] Speaker 1: in one trinity concept is nonsense.
[43:03] Speaker 6: Yah know, I'd definitely like to come back a long
[43:05] Speaker 6: time and have the conversation where I'm more liking a
[43:06] Speaker 6: well versed on it. But I appreciate you guys for
[43:08] Speaker 6: having me up. You know, it was a good, great conversation.
[43:11] Speaker 3: Yeah, Donald, thanks for coming in, Buden you guys take care. Cheers.
[43:14] Speaker 2: Friend.
[43:16] Speaker 1: Well, that's turned out to be an interesting conversation. I
[43:18] Speaker 1: enjoyed that. We've got a couple of super chats and
[43:22] Speaker 1: then we're gonna bring Haley in next. And I think
[43:26] Speaker 1: I'm keeping track of who came in in what order,
[43:28] Speaker 1: so we're gonna do Haley next after these super chats.
[43:32] Speaker 1: I am the big cheese great to see you this
[43:34] Speaker 1: Sunday morning. Thank you for the super chat says God
[43:38] Speaker 1: can't give evidence of existence because take away choice or
[43:41] Speaker 1: free will. Yet let's millions of infants die of starvation, disease,
[43:46] Speaker 1: natural disaster, thus robbing them of the ability to exercise
[43:50] Speaker 1: free will. I'm with the big cheese, but you gotta
[43:52] Speaker 1: remember obviously they were vessels designed for wrath. God needed
[43:57] Speaker 1: to put his wrath on somebody and the m I love.
[44:02] Speaker 1: There's a quote in Jeremiah It's Fantastic where God says
[44:06] Speaker 1: I am full of wrath and I'm weary of holding
[44:08] Speaker 1: it in this God wants to let loose. But ZM says,
[44:12] Speaker 1: this is the best part of Sunday. I love when
[44:14] Speaker 1: Danny joins unapologetic thanks for being here, you too, Justin
[44:17] Speaker 1: and Blitz Danny, You're the start of the show, Buddy.
[44:20] Speaker 7: I'm just a guest and the vessel wrath thing. Next
[44:25] Speaker 7: time I take away my kid's phone or something and
[44:28] Speaker 7: they ask me why, I'm like, you're a vessel of wrath.
[44:33] Speaker 7: I'm gonna use that phrase.
[44:37] Speaker 1: Says by definition, doesn't the universe have to be infinite?
[44:42] Speaker 1: Because if it was in finite, then there'd be an
[44:46] Speaker 1: end of it that would be on the other side
[44:49] Speaker 1: of that end. What would be on the other side
[44:52] Speaker 1: of that end. So I've questioned the same thing myself,
[44:55] Speaker 1: like why would we think that there's a limit to
[44:59] Speaker 1: space time. It seems like if space is expanding, then
[45:03] Speaker 1: either it's creating its own space as it's expanding, or
[45:06] Speaker 1: it's just expanding into space.
[45:07] Speaker 3: Well what do you make of this?
[45:08] Speaker 2: Blitzz So look, and this is a This is the
[45:12] Speaker 2: kind of thing that actually requires some I don't want
[45:15] Speaker 2: to say, like sophisticated mathematical understanding, but like there is
[45:19] Speaker 2: something that like most people think that it's either infinite
[45:22] Speaker 2: or it has an edge, but that's just not the case.
[45:24] Speaker 2: There are absolutely alternatives. In fact, if I remember correctly,
[45:29] Speaker 2: there are exactly eighteen ways that you can have three
[45:33] Speaker 2: dimensional space, twelve of which are infinite if I remember correctly,
[45:39] Speaker 2: and then the remaining six are finite and none of
[45:41] Speaker 2: them have edges. So I should say three dimensional flat space,
[45:45] Speaker 2: which is kind of space that we live in it. So,
[45:47] Speaker 2: for example, this isn't an example of flat space. But
[45:50] Speaker 2: consider the surface of the Earth. Right, the surface of
[45:52] Speaker 2: the Earth is two dimensional, it's not infinite, and yet
[45:56] Speaker 2: it doesn't have an edge. Right, you can travel in
[45:58] Speaker 2: any direction forever and you'll never get to an edge
[46:00] Speaker 2: loops back on itself, So there's no edge to space.
[46:02] Speaker 2: So our universe could very well be finite without an
[46:06] Speaker 2: edge and be flat. This would be like a kind
[46:09] Speaker 2: of like a three dimensional version of the pac Man world.
[46:11] Speaker 2: You go in one side, you come out the other side.
[46:13] Speaker 2: That's a possibility. Now there are reasons to think that
[46:15] Speaker 2: that's probably not what our universe is like, which is
[46:18] Speaker 2: why you know, the kind of default position is that
[46:20] Speaker 2: our universe is actually infinite. But no, the business of
[46:26] Speaker 2: the business of being infinite or having an edge, it's
[46:29] Speaker 2: just not a true diconomy.
[46:31] Speaker 1: Appreciate that. Yeah, this is why you go to schedul,
[46:34] Speaker 1: go to school to learn these high level ideas because
[46:37] Speaker 1: my p brain type of mind can't envision it without
[46:40] Speaker 1: the math. Ik says, hey, guys, love your channel. Well, hey,
[46:44] Speaker 1: thank you so much.
[46:45] Speaker 3: We appreciate the sport.
[46:46] Speaker 1: And the last one from our friend the cheese again
[46:50] Speaker 1: says infinites are difficult for human point of view because
[46:54] Speaker 1: hegemonic conditioning. But complicated is not equal to paradox and
[46:59] Speaker 1: is not contradiction I could agree with that for sure.
[47:04] Speaker 1: Something being hard to envision doesn't mean that it's paradoxical
[47:07] Speaker 1: or contradictory. It just means sometimes it takes some advance
[47:11] Speaker 1: thinking to get to that endpoint. We're going to grab
[47:14] Speaker 1: Haley from the queue. Welcome in, Haley, Haley.
[47:27] Speaker 3: Haley, can you hear us?
[47:29] Speaker 4: Hello?
[47:30] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[47:30] Speaker 1: How you doing?
[47:31] Speaker 9: Okay? Hey, good, good to hear it.
[47:34] Speaker 3: Haley.
[47:34] Speaker 1: Are you at least eighteen? And do you believe in God?
[47:38] Speaker 9: Yes? I am thirty and I believe in the God
[47:43] Speaker 9: of the Bible.
[47:44] Speaker 1: Cool, And in your opinion, what's the most convincing evidence
[47:50] Speaker 1: or argument or reason to believe in this particular God?
[47:55] Speaker 9: Yeah, so one, I would say, because in the Bible
[47:59] Speaker 9: it tells us that is through the wordy of your testimony,
[48:02] Speaker 9: right through the word of your testimony. And so that
[48:04] Speaker 9: is my strongest argument, because you can gain knowledge but
[48:11] Speaker 9: not have understanding, right, So I believe, like I've gained
[48:14] Speaker 9: a lot of knowledge over my years. I grew up
[48:18] Speaker 9: believing in God. However it wasn't until a few years ago. Sorry,
[48:23] Speaker 9: my son is in the car with me. We're actually
[48:27] Speaker 9: waiting to pick up my husband from singing at church.
[48:31] Speaker 9: But it wasn't utill like a few years ago that
[48:34] Speaker 9: I actually truly I would say that I became a Christian.
[48:38] Speaker 9: So I had a lot of knowledge of scriptures, I
[48:40] Speaker 9: went to Christian school, I went to every BDS.
[48:47] Speaker 2: I wanted to do a Christian name. Although it's really
[48:49] Speaker 2: a Jewish name.
[48:51] Speaker 9: It is right because Jesus is Jewish, so kind of
[48:55] Speaker 9: makes sense that it would be a Christian and a
[48:57] Speaker 9: Jewish name.
[48:57] Speaker 7: But you're not driving your way in the car.
[49:00] Speaker 9: No, I'm waiting in the car. No, my husband, he's
[49:04] Speaker 9: just finishing up singing for a second service.
[49:06] Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you a question, like it sounds
[49:09] Speaker 1: like the foundation for your belief is probably a combination
[49:12] Speaker 1: of personal experience and the Bible. But absolutely, yes, why
[49:18] Speaker 1: would we trust the Bible?
[49:20] Speaker 9: Why would you trust the Bible? I think that from
[49:25] Speaker 9: what I've read from other sources outside of the Bible,
[49:30] Speaker 9: I do believe that it has I do believe that
[49:35] Speaker 9: it sounds. I do believe that it matches historical evidence.
[49:41] Speaker 9: I believe that there are things in the Bible that
[49:45] Speaker 9: would not make sense to have in there if you
[49:48] Speaker 9: were just trying to make up some real religion, you know, Like,
[49:52] Speaker 9: why would you have women to like witnesses, when women
[49:55] Speaker 9: at that time would have been unreliable witnesses, So why
[49:58] Speaker 9: would you add them, because that would actually like true.
[50:03] Speaker 1: In Roman court, you're actually allowed to have female witnesses.
[50:06] Speaker 1: In fact, there's a couple of authors from the Roman period,
[50:09] Speaker 1: some of them fiction, some of them actual history that
[50:12] Speaker 1: record the testimonies of women in.
[50:14] Speaker 9: Court, right, Roman court. Right, But when you think about
[50:20] Speaker 9: how it was in Judaism at the time, right, there
[50:24] Speaker 9: was a separation.
[50:28] Speaker 1: If you read the Talmid, you'll find women giving testimony in.
[50:30] Speaker 9: Court, right, but their testimony had to be backed up, right,
[50:36] Speaker 9: They had to have more you know. It wasn't like
[50:40] Speaker 9: if you really were trying to like, you know, sell
[50:43] Speaker 9: a lie, you're gonna try to like have the best witnesses, right, Like,
[50:47] Speaker 9: if I'm going to try to sell a lie, I'm
[50:49] Speaker 9: gonna pick somebody that's gonna be like the best person
[50:52] Speaker 9: to be able to back me up on this lie.
[50:55] Speaker 9: I'm not gonna pick somebody at a little shady because
[50:57] Speaker 9: I'm who's gonna believe them anyways.
[50:58] Speaker 1: But that's true of men women, right, So both both
[51:01] Speaker 1: women and men had to give testimony in the ancient world,
[51:04] Speaker 1: whether you're Jewish, Roman, or Greek. And we gain debate
[51:08] Speaker 1: about whether or not people generally trust one over the other.
[51:11] Speaker 1: But the reality is both of them were allowed to
[51:13] Speaker 1: give testimony, but they weren't.
[51:16] Speaker 9: Allowed to give testimony. I didn't say they weren't allowed
[51:18] Speaker 9: to give testimony. I said that their testimony didn't necessarily
[51:23] Speaker 9: carry as much weight. So if I'm going to try
[51:26] Speaker 9: to pass a lie, I'm going to pick somebody. If
[51:28] Speaker 9: I'm going to make this up, I'm going to pick
[51:30] Speaker 9: somebody that's testimony is going to carry way more weight.
[51:32] Speaker 2: So I don't think just to jump in, like and justin,
[51:37] Speaker 2: maybe you actually know the answer to this. Maybe I
[51:39] Speaker 2: don't know if Hailey does. Where did this come? Where
[51:42] Speaker 2: did this apologetic come from? That? Oh, they just didn't
[51:44] Speaker 2: trust women back then? Like I hear that claimed a lot,
[51:48] Speaker 2: and like maybe it's intuitive, but I've never seen anything
[51:51] Speaker 2: that backs it up.
[51:54] Speaker 1: It's an invention, to be clear, How you that's.
[52:00] Speaker 2: Kind of what I figured.
[52:01] Speaker 9: How How would you know that?
[52:02] Speaker 6: Though?
[52:03] Speaker 9: Because if you look at how women were treated and
[52:06] Speaker 9: the power structures, right, I mean, I think we could
[52:11] Speaker 9: even say that there's still similar power structures in play today.
[52:16] Speaker 1: So yeah, But what I'm saying is that we've got
[52:19] Speaker 1: lots of records from the ancient world that record women
[52:22] Speaker 1: giving viable testimony in court that holds up.
[52:26] Speaker 9: So like, I know that it never did. I said
[52:30] Speaker 9: it didn't carry as much weight based on the way
[52:36] Speaker 9: that women retreated at that time, the way that women
[52:40] Speaker 9: were seen as that time, right where from Like think
[52:46] Speaker 9: about even how you were able to get a divorce
[52:48] Speaker 9: at that.
[52:48] Speaker 1: Time, right, women could get divorces.
[52:52] Speaker 9: Yeah, they could, but it wasn't like today. It wasn't like,
[52:57] Speaker 9: oh I could just like go and divorce my husband
[52:59] Speaker 9: at any time. Right, There had to be you had
[53:01] Speaker 9: to be multiple like multiple evidence from other people.
[53:06] Speaker 1: Right, Well, no, you just have to have you have
[53:08] Speaker 1: to have provable evidence the number of witnesses that are relevant.
[53:11] Speaker 1: But women could certainly.
[53:13] Speaker 7: Get yeah of them.
[53:16] Speaker 1: Sorry, I would say, no, this is actually relevant to
[53:18] Speaker 1: whether or not the Bible is true, just to be clear.
[53:21] Speaker 7: And I wanted to point out the inference that you're making,
[53:24] Speaker 7: Like would you say that women had less rights two
[53:27] Speaker 7: hundred years ago than as compared to today?
[53:29] Speaker 9: Heally two hundred years ago.
[53:33] Speaker 7: Yeah in the United States? Yeah, right, But but you
[53:38] Speaker 7: can't go from there to therefore a court testimony was
[53:43] Speaker 7: less valuable because if someone would trying to argue that
[53:46] Speaker 7: in court a woman's testimony right didn't matter less, right,
[53:50] Speaker 7: that's very hard to show, even though it's true they
[53:53] Speaker 7: had less rights and were treated very, you know, inferiorly
[53:58] Speaker 7: in our society. So that's what we're trying to say.
[54:02] Speaker 7: It could be that it was unfair for women back
[54:05] Speaker 7: then in terms of the power struggles or the rights whatever,
[54:08] Speaker 7: but it doesn't mean that therefore their testimony in court
[54:11] Speaker 7: didn't that it mattered less.
[54:13] Speaker 9: I would argue that because I think that our perception
[54:16] Speaker 9: of people automatically, like how we view people on what
[54:22] Speaker 9: level we view somebody. If we don't view somebody at
[54:24] Speaker 9: the same level as us, right, we don't what they
[54:28] Speaker 9: have to say, we automatically is gonna take it less right.
[54:32] Speaker 9: If my husband comes and tells me something right, I'm
[54:37] Speaker 9: gonna be like, Okay, you know what, I'm more likely
[54:39] Speaker 9: to believe you than if somebody else over here comes
[54:42] Speaker 9: and tells me something right, because it's how I perceive.
[54:45] Speaker 9: I perceive my husband as trustworthy. I perceive my husband
[54:49] Speaker 9: as a good person, right. But if I see somebody else,
[54:54] Speaker 9: and I'm like, uh, you know, like you actually aren't
[54:56] Speaker 9: that important to me. I don't see you as like
[55:00] Speaker 9: an equal, right, I don't think of other people this way,
[55:02] Speaker 9: but in general, like if I you know, if I
[55:04] Speaker 9: was like, I don't see you at the same level
[55:05] Speaker 9: as me, right, I mean, let's look at for instance, right,
[55:11] Speaker 9: like with racism, you cannot tell me just because people
[55:16] Speaker 9: said black people weren't didn't have like the same level
[55:20] Speaker 9: of intelligence or the same level of understanding and knowledge.
[55:23] Speaker 9: You cannot tell me that then they would also therefore, Carrie,
[55:27] Speaker 9: like say that their witness in court would be the same.
[55:30] Speaker 9: They didn't because they wouldn't, because how you feel about
[55:33] Speaker 9: people is going to affect how you view their information
[55:37] Speaker 9: as believable or not.
[55:39] Speaker 7: But at the same Okay, but again, are you saying
[55:43] Speaker 7: that two hundred years ago a woman's testimony in the
[55:45] Speaker 7: United States in court mattered less? Is that what you're suggesting? I?
[55:50] Speaker 9: Yes, I would, because I think if you do, there's as.
[55:54] Speaker 7: Much evidence, there's as much evidence. There's as much evidence
[55:57] Speaker 7: for that as there is for the claim that a
[56:00] Speaker 7: woman's testimony two thousand years ago in court had less
[56:05] Speaker 7: was less believable. I just don't think.
[56:08] Speaker 1: But it's also like none of this is actually relevant
[56:10] Speaker 1: to whether or not the Bible is true. Just to
[56:12] Speaker 1: be clear, the Bible just says things that are flatly false.
[56:17] Speaker 1: Like literally, the first page of the New Testament has a.
[56:20] Speaker 7: Lie in it.
[56:20] Speaker 1: You want to see it?
[56:22] Speaker 9: What is it?
[56:23] Speaker 1: It's like literally page number one on the stream and
[56:29] Speaker 1: second are you should be able to see hope, let
[56:35] Speaker 1: me put on the other screen. Two you should be
[56:38] Speaker 1: able to see my browser here zoom in. So it
[56:42] Speaker 1: says in Matthew one eleven. In the lineage of Jesus,
[56:45] Speaker 1: it says Josiah the father of Jack Andiah and his brothers.
[56:51] Speaker 1: But that's just not true. Josiah wasn't the father of
[56:54] Speaker 1: Jack Andiah. The father of Jack Andiah was Jehoia Kim.
[56:58] Speaker 1: Johoya Quim was the son of Joah. Like so literally
[57:02] Speaker 1: the first page of the New Assessment starts out with a.
[57:04] Speaker 9: Blunder with Josiah the father of Jack and Iiah.
[57:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, Jeremiah twenty two and first Chronicles both record the
[57:15] Speaker 1: lineage of Jack Andiah and he is the grandson of Josiah,
[57:19] Speaker 1: not the son of Josiah. Matthew got it wrong and
[57:21] Speaker 1: he does the same thing. Matthew actually does the same
[57:24] Speaker 1: thing in the lineage, he misses three other individuals. If
[57:30] Speaker 1: you go to the lineage in Matthew Chapter one, the
[57:33] Speaker 1: Children of Joram, there are three generations missing. After Joram.
[57:38] Speaker 1: It says that Joram was the father of Usiah. There
[57:41] Speaker 1: are three individual people in that lineage between Joram and Husiah.
[57:52] Speaker 9: I honestly would have to look into that. I I
[57:58] Speaker 9: guess that was something I didn't notice. I mean, it
[58:00] Speaker 9: doesn't change my opinion. I feel like, you know, I
[58:05] Speaker 9: feel like every time there's every time there's like a mistake.
[58:11] Speaker 9: Once you look into it deeper, it ends up making sense.
[58:14] Speaker 3: Right, I have looked into this deeper, I can show
[58:17] Speaker 3: you where it gives you their children determined. Yeah.
[58:21] Speaker 1: So if you go to first chronicles, it just tells you.
[58:24] Speaker 1: It says that Joram was the son of Jojoseph, fat
[58:29] Speaker 1: Isaiah was his son, joe Ash was his son, Amaziah
[58:34] Speaker 1: was his son, and then finally Azariah was his son.
[58:37] Speaker 1: Azariah is the other name for Uziah in the Old Testament.
[58:40] Speaker 1: He's got a nickname, just like Kanaiah was the nickname
[58:43] Speaker 1: for Jack and Iyah so there are three individual people
[58:46] Speaker 1: between Joram and his great great great grandson Usiah.
[58:54] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[58:55] Speaker 9: I think my first instinct would be too love to
[58:58] Speaker 9: see what they did and who they were and what
[59:02] Speaker 9: type of life they lived, because I think that would
[59:06] Speaker 9: be right because.
[59:09] Speaker 3: We're talking about who who.
[59:12] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[59:12] Speaker 1: No, No, The reason for the exclusions irrelevant. The reality
[59:16] Speaker 1: is Matthew says that these people were born to certain people.
[59:20] Speaker 1: If it says that, if it says that the father
[59:25] Speaker 1: of Uzaiah was somebody other than his father, then it's
[59:29] Speaker 1: it's just not true. It's something that's not true.
[59:33] Speaker 9: What about Joseph? Right, So, so the tribes of Israel, right,
[59:40] Speaker 9: are all actually considered the children of Abraham? But we
[59:45] Speaker 9: have the Aphromites and the Menasites right.
[59:50] Speaker 1: Right, But it says in linear it says so and
[59:53] Speaker 1: so begat so.
[59:54] Speaker 9: And so right. But because so all of the tribes
[59:58] Speaker 9: of Israel are considered to be the children of Abraham. However,
[1:00:03] Speaker 9: we know that Ephraim and Manassa were the children of
[1:00:07] Speaker 9: Joseph his son, right, But but they don't say that.
[1:00:12] Speaker 9: They don't say, oh, and then you know of Abraham,
[1:00:16] Speaker 9: and what do.
[1:00:18] Speaker 1: You think the author of Matthew Chapter one is doing.
[1:00:22] Speaker 9: I can't say for sure because I haven't done the
[1:00:25] Speaker 9: research on that, but I think that it would be
[1:00:28] Speaker 9: I think it would be very telling to see what
[1:00:30] Speaker 9: kind of life they lived, the life.
[1:00:33] Speaker 1: That he's establishing patrick lineage. He's establishing the lineage going
[1:00:39] Speaker 1: back to King David to demonstrate that Jesus had the
[1:00:42] Speaker 1: lineage of a king. So what's happening here is he's
[1:00:46] Speaker 1: naming off the individual lineages and he's even counting them.
[1:00:50] Speaker 1: He also miscounts, by the way, but if you're if
[1:00:53] Speaker 1: you're reading the lineage, it says, so the generation, Sorry,
[1:00:56] Speaker 1: I'll put it back on the screen. So so the
[1:00:59] Speaker 1: generation from Abraham to David were fourteen generations, and from
[1:01:04] Speaker 1: David to the deportation in Babylon fourteen generations. That's false.
[1:01:08] Speaker 1: There's actually three generations missing. There wasn't fourteen generations. And
[1:01:12] Speaker 1: then he says from the deportation of Babylon to the
[1:01:15] Speaker 1: Messiah fourteen generations, which is also false. If you count
[1:01:18] Speaker 1: the last set of generations that he lists, there's only
[1:01:21] Speaker 1: thirteen of them.
[1:01:24] Speaker 9: Like Matthew's just a goof okay, But this is what
[1:01:27] Speaker 9: I said when I said knowledge and understanding. You can
[1:01:30] Speaker 9: gain knowledge, you can see all that, you can gain
[1:01:32] Speaker 9: all of like you can see what it says, right,
[1:01:35] Speaker 9: but understanding is like, how okay, but that's what I'm saying.
[1:01:41] Speaker 9: You're saying it doesn't matter what they did, but.
[1:01:45] Speaker 1: What they did is irrelevant. The question is who began.
[1:01:47] Speaker 1: It's not not Matthew one is establishing a Patrick lineage.
[1:01:53] Speaker 1: It's establishing who was the father of who. It's not
[1:01:56] Speaker 1: establishing which people in history we prefer. I don't know
[1:02:08] Speaker 1: what happens.
[1:02:14] Speaker 11: Hmm, is your did.
[1:02:18] Speaker 1: You turn your car bluetooth on or something?
[1:02:20] Speaker 3: What's going on right here?
[1:02:25] Speaker 9: I think that I think that it's like because if
[1:02:29] Speaker 9: you look, it says like God does talk about like
[1:02:31] Speaker 9: blotting out generations, right, He's like, you know, wicked generations,
[1:02:35] Speaker 9: We're gonna blot you out. We're not gonna we're not
[1:02:37] Speaker 9: gonna include you because you were wicked and evil. That
[1:02:41] Speaker 9: was one of the things that prophets would be like, yo,
[1:02:43] Speaker 9: you're gonna get blotted out because you are not following
[1:02:46] Speaker 9: in the ways of your ancestors.
[1:02:48] Speaker 1: But you explicitly list one of those kings that God
[1:02:52] Speaker 1: blotted out. So, for example, if we're in, Matthew. Still,
[1:02:55] Speaker 1: I'll put it back on the screen if we're in Matthew.
[1:02:58] Speaker 1: He includes Jack and Ayah says after the deportation to Babylon,
[1:03:01] Speaker 1: Jack Andiah, the father of Salathiel. Jack Andiah was blotted
[1:03:05] Speaker 1: out in Jeremiah twenty two. He includes, and this is
[1:03:09] Speaker 1: another thing that precludes Jesus from ever being a king,
[1:03:12] Speaker 1: because he certainly isn't allowed to because in Jeremiah twenty
[1:03:15] Speaker 1: two thirty he says of Jack Andiah, record this man
[1:03:18] Speaker 1: as childless, a man who shall not succeed in his days,
[1:03:22] Speaker 1: for none of his offspring shall succeed in sitting on
[1:03:24] Speaker 1: the throne of David and ruling again in Judah. He
[1:03:27] Speaker 1: was so wicked, God said, nobody that comes from your
[1:03:30] Speaker 1: loins will ever be able to sit on the throne
[1:03:31] Speaker 1: of Judah. But Matthew includes this clown show in the genealogy.
[1:03:38] Speaker 9: Yeah, he did. And like I said, I think that, yes,
[1:03:42] Speaker 9: you that's a part of Like, okay, he said that,
[1:03:45] Speaker 9: But also what was happening around there? What else happened?
[1:03:48] Speaker 9: Who did come after him? What did they do?
[1:03:50] Speaker 4: What it?
[1:03:51] Speaker 9: You know, here's the thing. Because God is a god
[1:03:53] Speaker 9: of redemption, right, like all the time. He's a god
[1:03:56] Speaker 9: of redemption. So I think that it is very like, Yes,
[1:03:59] Speaker 9: I think it's that he included him, because then it
[1:04:02] Speaker 9: shows oh wait, you know what, but God is a
[1:04:05] Speaker 9: god who is full of grace and forgiveness and love
[1:04:09] Speaker 9: and redemption, and.
[1:04:10] Speaker 1: That is how do you think that How do you
[1:04:12] Speaker 1: think that addresses my point?
[1:04:15] Speaker 8: What?
[1:04:16] Speaker 3: How do you think that addresses my point?
[1:04:18] Speaker 9: Your point of why did he take out some people
[1:04:21] Speaker 9: and put some people in?
[1:04:22] Speaker 14: No?
[1:04:23] Speaker 3: No, no, that wasn't my point.
[1:04:24] Speaker 1: You said that the Matthew left out certain generations because
[1:04:29] Speaker 1: they were cursed by God, but he explicitly was Okay,
[1:04:35] Speaker 1: then and then the maybe falls flat because he includes
[1:04:40] Speaker 1: Jack and Aiahs someone who was explicitly cursed.
[1:04:44] Speaker 9: I don't think it necessarily does, because, like I said,
[1:04:47] Speaker 9: God is a god of redemption. So I will say, well.
[1:04:49] Speaker 1: Then your initial talking point fails. If God is a
[1:04:51] Speaker 1: god of redemption, then whether or not he cursed somebody's irrelevant.
[1:04:55] Speaker 9: But I think what happens around that person. I think
[1:04:58] Speaker 9: like who came after him and who came before him,
[1:05:01] Speaker 9: and what happened during that time all takes into like
[1:05:05] Speaker 9: it's taken into consideration. Right, And you know, I think that,
[1:05:10] Speaker 9: like I said, you can have knowledge, but I truly
[1:05:13] Speaker 9: I'm not gonna lie.
[1:05:15] Speaker 1: Sounds like you don't have sounds like you don't have knowledge.
[1:05:17] Speaker 1: How come you don't know? These problems are in the
[1:05:19] Speaker 1: text like so for example, like Mark the literally the
[1:05:22] Speaker 1: first page of Mark has an error too. Mark attributes
[1:05:25] Speaker 1: a quote to Isaiah that comes from a different prophet.
[1:05:28] Speaker 1: He says, as is written in the prophet Isaiah, see,
[1:05:30] Speaker 1: I'm sending my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare
[1:05:33] Speaker 1: your way. That's not in Isaiah. That's in Malachi three.
[1:05:43] Speaker 1: That's a quotation from Malachi three.
[1:05:46] Speaker 9: Right, Okay, it's in Malage.
[1:05:49] Speaker 1: Is They didn't write.
[1:05:49] Speaker 9: That, did he did he say something similar?
[1:05:53] Speaker 1: He did say something vaguely similar, but he didn't say that.
[1:05:59] Speaker 9: And then all so I would say, you know, do
[1:06:02] Speaker 9: we have Are you sure that we have every single
[1:06:06] Speaker 9: every single uh thing that Isaiah ever said?
[1:06:11] Speaker 1: Right, Well, Jesus seems the thing. So we've got the
[1:06:13] Speaker 1: same bible Jesus was using. And Jesus says that God's
[1:06:17] Speaker 1: words can't fail.
[1:06:19] Speaker 9: They don't fail.
[1:06:21] Speaker 1: So then we got all.
[1:06:22] Speaker 3: We got them all.
[1:06:24] Speaker 9: That doesn't mean no that's not that's not what that meant.
[1:06:28] Speaker 1: We have we have the manuscripts from Isaiah. We know
[1:06:31] Speaker 1: what Isaiah said.
[1:06:32] Speaker 3: He didn't say.
[1:06:33] Speaker 9: Okay, okay, here's the thing. First of all, we don't
[1:06:36] Speaker 9: know everything. Isaiah said, why why.
[1:06:38] Speaker 1: In the world would you be thinking that there are
[1:06:40] Speaker 1: missing manuscripts.
[1:06:41] Speaker 9: So when he said that my word God.
[1:06:44] Speaker 1: God decided he wasn't going to preserve his word. After
[1:06:47] Speaker 1: saying so he's going to preserve his word, he did.
[1:06:50] Speaker 9: He said, he said, my word never fails.
[1:06:53] Speaker 1: Did God preserve absolutely, then we should have the manuscripts
[1:06:59] Speaker 1: from Isaiah.
[1:07:02] Speaker 9: He said, okay, so that is not that's not a
[1:07:06] Speaker 9: really good argument because you said you want to quote
[1:07:08] Speaker 9: Jesus and say his word never fails, but then you
[1:07:11] Speaker 9: don't want to say with what.
[1:07:12] Speaker 3: You just that Jesus didn't say that.
[1:07:15] Speaker 9: That's what you just said.
[1:07:16] Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'm saying Mark, Mark said the thing
[1:07:19] Speaker 1: that is in error and Jesus, Jesus says that you
[1:07:22] Speaker 1: should live on brother alone, but on every word that
[1:07:24] Speaker 1: proceeds from the mouth of God. And if we don't
[1:07:26] Speaker 1: know the words that proceeded from the mouth of God,
[1:07:29] Speaker 1: then Jesus is literally sending us on a wild goose
[1:07:32] Speaker 1: chase to guess what God might have said. But the
[1:07:35] Speaker 1: God of the Old Testament says that he preserves his word.
[1:07:39] Speaker 7: Mm hmm.
[1:07:40] Speaker 1: So if he preserves his words, that that means we
[1:07:44] Speaker 1: have them.
[1:07:47] Speaker 9: I think that we have, yes, everything that God said.
[1:07:52] Speaker 1: Okay, if we have everything that God said through his
[1:07:55] Speaker 1: prophets that we needs, we have. The only words of
[1:07:59] Speaker 1: God that we have are the words that He spoke
[1:08:01] Speaker 1: to those prophets. God didn't write anything.
[1:08:07] Speaker 9: I mean, that's obviously a Christian belief in it. Like
[1:08:12] Speaker 9: a standpoint is that every scripture is what God reads.
[1:08:17] Speaker 9: So like that everything that is in scripture was like
[1:08:22] Speaker 9: not necessarily God didn't come down and write it himself,
[1:08:25] Speaker 9: but is all the word of God.
[1:08:28] Speaker 1: So do we have the word of God or not?
[1:08:31] Speaker 9: Yeah, we have the word of God. And I would
[1:08:32] Speaker 9: say that Matthew God.
[1:08:35] Speaker 1: It means Matthew screwed or Mark screwed the pooch.
[1:08:39] Speaker 9: No, he didn't, he did.
[1:08:41] Speaker 1: Matthew does the same thing. By the way, in Matthew
[1:08:43] Speaker 1: twenty seven, Matthew midst quotes Zachariah like this is like
[1:08:49] Speaker 1: if you had like even cursory knowledge of the Bible,
[1:08:52] Speaker 1: you would understand why these problems are actual problems rather
[1:08:55] Speaker 1: than like making up fanciful histories about them. But in
[1:08:59] Speaker 1: the betru in the portrayal for the thirty pieces of silver,
[1:09:03] Speaker 1: I'm certainly not doing that. So in Matthew twenty seven,
[1:09:07] Speaker 1: it talks about the betrayal for thirty pieces of silver. Correct, yeah, okay,
[1:09:12] Speaker 1: says then was fulfilled what had been spoken through the
[1:09:15] Speaker 1: prophet Jeremiah, and then he quotes the supposed Jeremiah says,
[1:09:19] Speaker 1: they took the thirty pieces of silver on the price
[1:09:22] Speaker 1: of the one whom I'm sorry, the price of the
[1:09:25] Speaker 1: one on whom a price had been set. That doesn't
[1:09:28] Speaker 1: come from Jeremiah. That's from Zachariah eleven thirteen. There's no prophecy.
[1:09:34] Speaker 1: There's no prophecy in any book of Jeremiah that talks
[1:09:37] Speaker 1: about thirty pieces of silver.
[1:09:44] Speaker 7: How did is cut off?
[1:09:46] Speaker 1: In fact, I'll I'll literally ven mill you one hundred
[1:09:49] Speaker 1: dollars while you're in the passenger seat if you could
[1:09:52] Speaker 1: find me this quotation from Jeremiah.
[1:09:56] Speaker 9: Oh right, So first off, one, can you please not
[1:09:59] Speaker 9: cut me off? I have been very like, I've let
[1:10:02] Speaker 9: you speak right like every time I have let you
[1:10:06] Speaker 9: say exactly what you're gonna say, and then I wait
[1:10:10] Speaker 9: and then I respond. I find it like, if you're
[1:10:13] Speaker 9: gonna have a conversation with somebody, you definitely need to
[1:10:16] Speaker 9: let them speak as well, because really, like you aren't
[1:10:20] Speaker 9: trying to that you're not trying to hear and you're
[1:10:24] Speaker 9: not trying to listen. You're just trying to win, which
[1:10:28] Speaker 9: is okay, I get it. But there's something that I
[1:10:31] Speaker 9: said at the very beginning of this conversation that comes
[1:10:35] Speaker 9: into play that you have not allowed me.
[1:10:37] Speaker 12: To s.
[1:10:38] Speaker 9: Entire time.
[1:10:44] Speaker 2: Well, what did you want to say?
[1:10:45] Speaker 9: Go ahead, okay. I began with speaking about the difference
[1:10:52] Speaker 9: between knowledge and understanding, and every time you've come up
[1:10:54] Speaker 9: with something I have tried to say that there is
[1:10:58] Speaker 9: a very specific reason why I said this, right, I
[1:11:01] Speaker 9: think because I forget which one of you at the
[1:11:03] Speaker 9: very like earlier, had said that you believe in God
[1:11:06] Speaker 9: at one point, and then like you know, twenty twenty
[1:11:10] Speaker 9: came and.
[1:11:11] Speaker 1: Does this address the passage we just read? I'm confused.
[1:11:15] Speaker 9: Wait, yeah, it will, it will. It will address everything,
[1:11:19] Speaker 9: like honestly, anything and everything. This is like I'm trying
[1:11:23] Speaker 9: to tell you, like you want to know I believe
[1:11:25] Speaker 9: in God? Why do I believe in the Bible?
[1:11:27] Speaker 13: Why do I think that.
[1:11:29] Speaker 1: I don't want to know any of those things. I
[1:11:30] Speaker 1: don't want to know any of that. I just want
[1:11:32] Speaker 1: to know where in your mind is this quote come from.
[1:11:34] Speaker 9: Well, I thought that was the whole point of this conversation.
[1:11:37] Speaker 9: But you wanted to talk to people who believe in God.
[1:11:40] Speaker 9: And then, oh so, I guess I'm confused.
[1:11:43] Speaker 1: I already know that the Christian God doesn't exist.
[1:11:46] Speaker 9: That's not even any then, Like, what is the point
[1:11:49] Speaker 9: of this is your life?
[1:11:51] Speaker 3: What is the point we're making?
[1:11:54] Speaker 1: My goal is to make Christian reads the Bible for
[1:11:57] Speaker 1: the first time because they've never read it.
[1:12:00] Speaker 9: Interesting, Okay, okay, that's your goal is to make people
[1:12:05] Speaker 9: read the Bible.
[1:12:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I told you. I pay you to
[1:12:09] Speaker 1: read the Bible. I told you I'd give you a
[1:12:11] Speaker 1: hundred bucks if you find that quote in Jeremiah.
[1:12:12] Speaker 9: For me, I guess we're on the same page then,
[1:12:15] Speaker 9: because you know what, I don't know having people read
[1:12:18] Speaker 9: the Bible as well. For me, I'm not saying you
[1:12:25] Speaker 9: know what, I think that what you said it's true.
[1:12:29] Speaker 9: I don't deny that I think that, like you know
[1:12:32] Speaker 9: that you have your evidence, And that's why I said
[1:12:34] Speaker 9: what I think about understanding, right, I believe that you
[1:12:39] Speaker 9: can have all of the knowledge. This is why I
[1:12:40] Speaker 9: brought up the person who had said that they believed
[1:12:43] Speaker 9: in God at one point, because I totally understand that.
[1:12:46] Speaker 9: Like I, like I said, I grew up in church,
[1:12:50] Speaker 9: in faith, in school, in everything, having to memorize scripture
[1:12:57] Speaker 9: for years and years and years. I ask if I
[1:13:00] Speaker 9: could I wait, hold on, can I finish? Please?
[1:13:03] Speaker 7: But you're giving some kind of.
[1:13:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, no one cares about your life story, right, Okay.
[1:13:09] Speaker 5: But we are.
[1:13:10] Speaker 7: I am interested in why there were a lot of
[1:13:12] Speaker 7: books early on in the second century, first century, for
[1:13:16] Speaker 7: second century, a lot of gospels. How do you know
[1:13:20] Speaker 7: you have the right one? How do you know you
[1:13:21] Speaker 7: have the right scripture?
[1:13:25] Speaker 9: How do I know?
[1:13:26] Speaker 2: I think?
[1:13:26] Speaker 9: Okay, So the thing is like, if you don't if
[1:13:32] Speaker 9: you don't want to have faith, if you don't want
[1:13:34] Speaker 9: to write, you can like you know that friend, you
[1:13:37] Speaker 9: know that friend that like they keep making bad decisions
[1:13:40] Speaker 9: or the person they're hanging out with is like just
[1:13:42] Speaker 9: like always bad news and they can't figure out.
[1:13:45] Speaker 7: I was here, I was let me. Let me make
[1:13:47] Speaker 7: the question a little bit easier. Sorry, my bad. Let
[1:13:49] Speaker 7: me get so like, take, for example, the Gospel of Thomas,
[1:13:52] Speaker 7: why does that not belong in your Bible?
[1:13:57] Speaker 9: So the way they did, and I see in Creed
[1:14:00] Speaker 9: or like the Council of Nicea was they decided that
[1:14:03] Speaker 9: it had to have stipulations. There was rules, so it
[1:14:06] Speaker 9: had to be that's.
[1:14:08] Speaker 7: Not that's not where they formed the Bible. The councilors didn't.
[1:14:13] Speaker 7: It wasn't there to establish a cannon.
[1:14:15] Speaker 9: Okay, then I have the wrong one. But when they
[1:14:18] Speaker 9: did it was the rules were for canonization, was that
[1:14:23] Speaker 9: it had to be congruent. It had to.
[1:14:27] Speaker 5: Wait what.
[1:14:30] Speaker 9: It had. Where did I get the idea of it
[1:14:33] Speaker 9: being congruent? I mean, did you look it up?
[1:14:41] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[1:14:42] Speaker 9: Yeah, okay, well.
[1:14:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, I've actually studied history.
[1:14:46] Speaker 9: Oh great, But it had to like the Book of
[1:14:53] Speaker 9: Enoch is not in there because they couldn't establish authorship,
[1:14:56] Speaker 9: which isn't like a huge thing.
[1:14:57] Speaker 5: But also the a.
[1:15:01] Speaker 1: Tom gives a defense of it. By the way, Tertullian
[1:15:03] Speaker 1: writes a whole treatise on why it's actually inspired scripture.
[1:15:07] Speaker 1: In fact, the first four hundred years of the Church,
[1:15:10] Speaker 1: literally every church father that brings up the Apocrypha says
[1:15:14] Speaker 1: that it's scripture and that it's prophetic. Justin Marderie even
[1:15:17] Speaker 1: makes a defense, saying that the Jews took them away
[1:15:20] Speaker 1: because they speak of Christ.
[1:15:22] Speaker 9: I would not, like, honestly, with the Book of Enoch,
[1:15:26] Speaker 9: like I said, I am not saying that it it
[1:15:29] Speaker 9: couldn't be, right. I also like believe that there is
[1:15:33] Speaker 9: evidence that it could be. I really do. Like I
[1:15:36] Speaker 9: just said that the other day to somebody else's scripture.
[1:15:41] Speaker 1: He says it's prophetic.
[1:15:43] Speaker 9: That's why I do believe that it it is. However,
[1:15:47] Speaker 9: there is other instances where other books that were clearly
[1:15:51] Speaker 9: not scripture are also referenced in the Bible. So I
[1:15:54] Speaker 9: think that was you know why, It's not like, oh yeah,
[1:15:58] Speaker 9: for sure, this is scripture. But overall, you know, I
[1:16:03] Speaker 9: I misjudged this. I should have listened longer. I thought
[1:16:07] Speaker 9: that this was actually supposed to be a conversation. I
[1:16:11] Speaker 9: thought that this was, you know, honestly, I thought it
[1:16:16] Speaker 9: was meant to also be respectful honestly, but.
[1:16:20] Speaker 1: You know, sounds like you're just mad because we won't
[1:16:22] Speaker 1: let you monologue.
[1:16:24] Speaker 9: No, that's not it. I was trying to give understanding.
[1:16:28] Speaker 1: Oh, you don't have understanding. You don't even know, you
[1:16:30] Speaker 1: don't even know the passages. How could you give us
[1:16:32] Speaker 1: a understanding about passages you've never read before?
[1:16:36] Speaker 3: Like claiming, claiming that.
[1:16:37] Speaker 1: You have understanding of things that you don't even have
[1:16:39] Speaker 1: knowledge of is crazy?
[1:16:41] Speaker 9: Okay, okay, First of all, you know there's a lot
[1:16:45] Speaker 9: in the Bible, and so just because I don't remember
[1:16:47] Speaker 9: everything doesn't mean I've never read it before. That is
[1:16:51] Speaker 9: that is a false statement. You came in prepared with
[1:16:54] Speaker 9: this stuff, right, So just to say that you think
[1:16:58] Speaker 9: I have read Matthew Mark, Luke John, I have read
[1:17:01] Speaker 9: Jeremiah Isaiah, I have you know like I have read
[1:17:07] Speaker 9: the Bible?
[1:17:07] Speaker 3: Sounds like you're not capable of rightly dividing the word.
[1:17:12] Speaker 9: See that's what it means. See that's extremely like I honestly,
[1:17:15] Speaker 9: that's extremely disrespectful.
[1:17:17] Speaker 3: Hayley, I think you study and show yourself approved, approved
[1:17:22] Speaker 3: by who proved by your God?
[1:17:24] Speaker 1: Your God's disappointed. You don't even know what's in his book.
[1:17:27] Speaker 1: You think there's a god that created literally the entire universe,
[1:17:30] Speaker 1: murdered his own son for you, and then wrote you
[1:17:33] Speaker 1: a book about it, and you can even be troubled
[1:17:35] Speaker 1: to read it in detail.
[1:17:37] Speaker 3: What a weird thing.
[1:17:37] Speaker 7: No, I do not was the Christian.
[1:17:40] Speaker 1: I read the Bible every day of my life. I
[1:17:42] Speaker 1: literally slept the Bible next to my pulo.
[1:17:45] Speaker 9: Oh yeah, same. My Bible is on my bed stand,
[1:17:48] Speaker 9: it's on my phone, it's on my computer, it's everywhere.
[1:17:53] Speaker 9: I uh, I think, though, well, actually I know, I
[1:17:57] Speaker 9: know that my God is not disappointed in me. I
[1:17:59] Speaker 9: know that my God loves me, and you know what,
[1:18:01] Speaker 9: he also loves you too, And sure, well you can
[1:18:05] Speaker 9: do both.
[1:18:06] Speaker 7: God could be disappointed and love you, right, that's not incompatible.
[1:18:11] Speaker 9: Oh yeah, of course, but he's not disappointed in me.
[1:18:13] Speaker 9: Right now, I already know what. I already know.
[1:18:16] Speaker 7: The point is that you kind of suggested it. You
[1:18:17] Speaker 7: said that that Justin was prepared, insinuating that you're you
[1:18:21] Speaker 7: came up unprepared.
[1:18:24] Speaker 9: I okay, I came I was unprepared in the fact
[1:18:29] Speaker 9: that I thought that the point of this was something different.
[1:18:33] Speaker 9: I really thought that it was about respectfully, you know,
[1:18:39] Speaker 9: having like, yeah, we don't agree, right, but there's a
[1:18:42] Speaker 9: way to disagree like that is actually like reasonable, right,
[1:18:48] Speaker 9: I do enjoy like just talking to people with different
[1:18:51] Speaker 9: beliefs than me. I enjoy like hearing what other people
[1:18:54] Speaker 9: have to say, you know, I do. I appreciate everything
[1:18:59] Speaker 9: that you said, right, But because like you are a
[1:19:05] Speaker 9: fellow human being, like I don't like you see people
[1:19:09] Speaker 9: who believe in God as less than and that is
[1:19:13] Speaker 9: record no, right, no, then why do you why do
[1:19:17] Speaker 9: you treat people like that?
[1:19:18] Speaker 13: Why is the interrupting?
[1:19:21] Speaker 9: Wait?
[1:19:22] Speaker 8: Is it that?
[1:19:22] Speaker 2: What is it that?
[1:19:23] Speaker 7: Is it the interrupting or is it that? Look, I'm
[1:19:25] Speaker 7: ignorant of stuff. We're all ignorantive stuff right here. The
[1:19:28] Speaker 7: topic is about the Bible. Right, So if we're talking
[1:19:31] Speaker 7: about the Bible and we're having a disagreement a debate, right,
[1:19:34] Speaker 7: then the expectations that you should know some stuff or
[1:19:37] Speaker 7: at least know how to respond to the questions, which
[1:19:39] Speaker 7: you don't. So then there's a question about you probably
[1:19:42] Speaker 7: requested it responsibly.
[1:19:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, And to be sure, Hayley, the reason why, the
[1:19:47] Speaker 1: reason why you're getting this cold treatment is because you
[1:19:50] Speaker 1: started the conversation with insinuating that I don't have knowledge
[1:19:55] Speaker 1: or understanding, or at a minimum, I have knowledge but
[1:19:57] Speaker 1: no understanding, and then you proceed to talk over me,
[1:20:01] Speaker 1: which is why I continued to talk over you, and
[1:20:03] Speaker 1: then you cried about me talking over you and not
[1:20:06] Speaker 1: letting you monologue. So maybe what you need to do
[1:20:08] Speaker 1: is listen to this back and consider whether or not
[1:20:11] Speaker 1: you're the reason why you're getting this treatment.
[1:20:15] Speaker 9: I tried to give understanding of what I meant about
[1:20:18] Speaker 9: knowledge and understanding. I also, you know what, I apologized.
[1:20:23] Speaker 9: I did not mean to talk over you. I you know,
[1:20:27] Speaker 9: if you would have said right away that I did that,
[1:20:30] Speaker 9: I would have apologized right away. And you know what,
[1:20:35] Speaker 9: I'm very sorry that I did that.
[1:20:38] Speaker 7: It's actually kind of a deal. It happens. Look, it
[1:20:40] Speaker 7: happens in debate, right, I don't know, maybe this is
[1:20:43] Speaker 7: not exactly Sunday School, where just like we let people
[1:20:46] Speaker 7: talk all and sometimes we interrupt. Sometimes good to interrupt,
[1:20:49] Speaker 7: because if I'm just yapping, you should interrupt me, right Like,
[1:20:53] Speaker 7: Sometimes interruptions are good and that's part of debating, right,
[1:20:56] Speaker 7: It's not. Don't take it personally.
[1:20:59] Speaker 9: I just think that how do you I like, I say,
[1:21:04] Speaker 9: I I was wrong, Okay, I was wrong about like
[1:21:09] Speaker 9: you know, sometimes there's things on here where you know,
[1:21:11] Speaker 9: people just want to have a conversation. They want to oops.
[1:21:18] Speaker 2: No, oh, no, very sick of the meta.
[1:21:25] Speaker 1: I'm not going to go round and round on the meta.
[1:21:27] Speaker 1: You're right, you were, you were definitely wrong, Haley, and and.
[1:21:31] Speaker 2: Look so so just to put a final pin on it,
[1:21:33] Speaker 2: like and people accuse me of interrupting a lot, and
[1:21:36] Speaker 2: I definitely do interrupt a lot, and I blame you know,
[1:21:38] Speaker 2: my ADHD on that, and also just me being a
[1:21:42] Speaker 2: bad person, I guess. But people, especially people who don't
[1:21:46] Speaker 2: get involved in debates a lot, aren't very good at
[1:21:52] Speaker 2: it's expressing themselves, expressing their point concisely. And so if
[1:21:56] Speaker 2: somebody comes on and they're meandering their way to make
[1:21:59] Speaker 2: a point and it takes ten minutes, I'm sorry. It's
[1:22:02] Speaker 2: so reasonable to interrupt you and just ask you to
[1:22:05] Speaker 2: get to the point, or to interrupt you to correct
[1:22:08] Speaker 2: the very first sentence that you made that was wrong. Right,
[1:22:12] Speaker 2: If the first thing you say is wrong and then
[1:22:14] Speaker 2: you're gonna go on for ten minutes based off of
[1:22:16] Speaker 2: that first thing, it's a waste of time, right, right.
[1:22:21] Speaker 1: And if this, if this was a time debate format,
[1:22:24] Speaker 1: then you could yap, and we'd love for you to
[1:22:26] Speaker 1: yap about something irrelevant to burn up your clock, but
[1:22:28] Speaker 1: we don't have clocks here, and we're actually trying to
[1:22:31] Speaker 1: keep the conversations concise. But let me grab some super js.
[1:22:34] Speaker 1: We'll get our next guest in here. I believe it's
[1:22:37] Speaker 1: gonna be Caleb, and then one in that particular order.
[1:22:40] Speaker 1: We've got a super chat from our friend Garbage Game
[1:22:42] Speaker 1: in thank you so much, Garba Game in the legend,
[1:22:48] Speaker 1: do you think some of my birthday money to request
[1:22:50] Speaker 1: a killer argument that religious people are more likely to
[1:22:53] Speaker 1: use corporeal punishment on children arguably the worst impact of
[1:22:58] Speaker 1: the Bible today. I mean, I think Ian has run
[1:23:03] Speaker 1: the argument that the Bible endorses what we would consider
[1:23:07] Speaker 1: abuse nowadays, and you know, spare the rod, spoil the child.
[1:23:10] Speaker 1: And I think the data has borne that out that
[1:23:13] Speaker 1: children that are spanked do not have better outcomes. And
[1:23:17] Speaker 1: so's if it's the case that the data back set
[1:23:20] Speaker 1: up that literally beating your children doesn't produce better outcomes,
[1:23:23] Speaker 1: and it's just the fact that the Bible doesn't know
[1:23:26] Speaker 1: how to rear your children.
[1:23:28] Speaker 2: I don't know.
[1:23:30] Speaker 1: And Tim, thank you for the superjest, says first Force. Now, Danny,
[1:23:33] Speaker 1: y'all are spoiling us. Listen, we are spoiled.
[1:23:38] Speaker 2: By the way, just to comment on that very very
[1:23:41] Speaker 2: simple Google search, there was a you know, a pretty
[1:23:45] Speaker 2: exploratory study of a few thousand parents. But what they
[1:23:47] Speaker 2: found is that parents who attend religious groups use corporal
[1:23:50] Speaker 2: punishment more frequently than parents who do not attend religious groups.
[1:23:55] Speaker 2: So I mean your intuition's correct.
[1:23:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is. Texas, Thank you for the six
[1:24:00] Speaker 1: sixty six hail Nero says, women with kids defending biblical
[1:24:03] Speaker 1: misogyny bums me the fuck out.
[1:24:06] Speaker 3: In Doug's eyes, all are equal. Yes, in Doug's googly eyes,
[1:24:10] Speaker 3: all are equal.
[1:24:11] Speaker 1: He would never degrade women. That's why Sharon Stone is
[1:24:14] Speaker 1: the co redemptrics remember sinfully? What for Sharon? Doctor Joe.
[1:24:18] Speaker 1: Great to see you, my friend. Thank you so much
[1:24:20] Speaker 1: for the nine ninety nine Superjet says, by looking deeper
[1:24:24] Speaker 1: into it, caller means coping and pretzel apologetics. Looking deeper
[1:24:28] Speaker 1: into it, coller means coping and pretzel. Yes, yes, that
[1:24:32] Speaker 1: is what it means. To look into it. Rather than
[1:24:34] Speaker 1: be honest, we're gonna look at it and try to
[1:24:37] Speaker 1: make it say something it doesn't say. And our friend
[1:24:39] Speaker 1: low Bar bills with us. Thank you so much for
[1:24:42] Speaker 1: the Superjet, My friend, since Genesis twenty verses seventeen through eighteen,
[1:24:46] Speaker 1: God closed fast the wombs. Why doesn't he prevent grape
[1:24:49] Speaker 1: victims today from getting pregnant? Doug is way more consistent.
[1:24:53] Speaker 1: So this goes to a talking point that we don't.
[1:24:57] Speaker 1: I could talk forever about this. This is the Abimlick story.
[1:25:00] Speaker 1: When it's it seems plausible that a Bimleck may or
[1:25:03] Speaker 1: may not have touched Sarah and vice versa, and so
[1:25:08] Speaker 1: as a punishment for what a Bimlic did, even though
[1:25:10] Speaker 1: God says I prevented you from touching her, he closes
[1:25:13] Speaker 1: the wombs of all the women in his household. What
[1:25:15] Speaker 1: a weird thing to do, considering that they didn't actually
[1:25:17] Speaker 1: commit the crime Abimlick did and Bimlick was actually prevented
[1:25:21] Speaker 1: from doing the crime. Another thing, it's almost like God
[1:25:25] Speaker 1: is perfectly okay with punishing women for the crimes of men,
[1:25:29] Speaker 1: probably because it happens over and over again. It's crazy. Optimists,
[1:25:32] Speaker 1: thank you for the super chat. My friend says, Cope
[1:25:35] Speaker 1: out your veins bring I'm sorry. Cope out your veins
[1:25:39] Speaker 1: brings hope to your brain. Yeah, get the Cope out
[1:25:42] Speaker 1: of your veins. You'll have hope in your brain. I
[1:25:43] Speaker 1: agree with you there actually, and Fern, thank you for
[1:25:46] Speaker 1: the supertest says okay, but did you consider nahah you
[1:25:50] Speaker 1: know what now that you bring that up, for I
[1:25:52] Speaker 1: always I should have kept that in the equation and
[1:25:56] Speaker 1: beg she thank you so much for the super jet.
[1:26:00] Speaker 1: Fred says, if the New Testament ended with Original Mark ending,
[1:26:03] Speaker 1: I doubt Christians would still exist. Paul's testimony arguably more
[1:26:07] Speaker 1: important than the spread of the Gospel because he never
[1:26:10] Speaker 1: mentioned the women.
[1:26:11] Speaker 3: Very ironic.
[1:26:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, actually, if we didn't have the other Gospels, if
[1:26:14] Speaker 1: we only had like the Original Mark, I don't think
[1:26:17] Speaker 1: we'd ever get even close to the Trinity. We certainly
[1:26:20] Speaker 1: wouldn't get to a like a divine agent born from
[1:26:23] Speaker 1: God and virgin birth. Christianity would look nothing like it
[1:26:27] Speaker 1: is today. We agree with you there, And mar Duke,
[1:26:29] Speaker 1: good to see you this morning. My friend says Haley
[1:26:31] Speaker 1: turned words into wine.
[1:26:35] Speaker 7: But is that the first perst time I heard that one?
[1:26:38] Speaker 7: I don't know, Like, have you heard that joke before?
[1:26:41] Speaker 8: No?
[1:26:42] Speaker 2: No, it's really funny. Good, that's really funny.
[1:26:44] Speaker 3: That's good.
[1:26:45] Speaker 7: I'm stealing that one.
[1:26:46] Speaker 2: Absolutely, that is really good.
[1:26:48] Speaker 1: Big w Mark Duke, we appreciate that. I got two
[1:26:51] Speaker 1: more super chats. Here's one from our friend's side to
[1:26:53] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the twenty hour super chat.
[1:26:55] Speaker 3: That's huge.
[1:26:56] Speaker 1: Friend says, love the panel today, Listen, we love the
[1:26:59] Speaker 1: panel today and we love you. Thank you for being here, friend.
[1:27:02] Speaker 1: And last one from Ik says, there are actually ways
[1:27:07] Speaker 1: to explain those errors, like putting the name of more
[1:27:10] Speaker 1: famous prophet on top of the quote. No, you're referring
[1:27:16] Speaker 1: to the quotation from Isaiah in Mark when it doesn't
[1:27:19] Speaker 1: actually come from Isaiah. There are no there's not a
[1:27:22] Speaker 1: single instance in all of Jewish history where you refer to.
[1:27:26] Speaker 3: A prophet by the name of another prophet.
[1:27:28] Speaker 7: That is a lie.
[1:27:29] Speaker 1: That's a cope. You'll never be able to substantiate that.
[1:27:33] Speaker 1: That is the most disingenuous argument for fixing that problem
[1:27:37] Speaker 1: that could have ever existed. And you look silly every
[1:27:42] Speaker 1: time you say something of that nature.
[1:27:43] Speaker 3: And I sorry. We got one more from our friend Jerry.
[1:27:45] Speaker 1: Jerry, thank you for the ten that our super chest says,
[1:27:47] Speaker 1: you guys are the goat loving Danny, but Ian is
[1:27:51] Speaker 1: a beast too. We agree both of them are beasts,
[1:27:54] Speaker 1: all right, I promise we would get Caleb and then one.
[1:27:58] Speaker 2: Before we do that. By the way, I saw comment
[1:28:00] Speaker 2: which made me think of something very funny. Danny, you
[1:28:02] Speaker 2: should change your online name to to Timothy Shallow atheist
[1:28:09] Speaker 2: Like it would be so perfect.
[1:28:11] Speaker 7: T Shallow made.
[1:28:15] Speaker 2: That would work too. Anyway, we have a we have
[1:28:18] Speaker 2: a guest to bring up.
[1:28:19] Speaker 1: I suppose, all right, we're gonna bring in Caleb.
[1:28:24] Speaker 5: Caleb, can you guys hear I'm using good?
[1:28:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, we can hear. We can hear you, but your
[1:28:32] Speaker 2: your connection says that you only have one bar, so
[1:28:34] Speaker 2: it might not be particularly good.
[1:28:37] Speaker 5: Okay, kind of calm out. Okay, hopefully doesn't cut out
[1:28:42] Speaker 5: too bad.
[1:28:45] Speaker 2: Do you believe in God?
[1:28:47] Speaker 5: Yes, I'm actually LDS.
[1:28:49] Speaker 2: You're LDS. Okay, what would you say is like the
[1:28:52] Speaker 2: most compelling argument you could give for the existence of
[1:28:55] Speaker 2: the God that you believe in?
[1:28:57] Speaker 15: Okay, So there's actually a couple a few different parts
[1:28:59] Speaker 15: to this. So you gotta bear with me for a second.
[1:29:02] Speaker 15: And I just want to say real quick first, this
[1:29:05] Speaker 15: is my first time doing a debate on TikTok. So
[1:29:06] Speaker 15: if I'm a little nervous, I apologize.
[1:29:09] Speaker 2: It's okay, but yeah, go for it.
[1:29:11] Speaker 5: You're good. Okay. So the first part is you agree
[1:29:16] Speaker 5: that this is actually based on science, So you agree
[1:29:19] Speaker 5: that energy cannot be destroyed or created. It has to
[1:29:24] Speaker 5: be transformed.
[1:29:25] Speaker 2: Right, Let's grant that for the time being, but there
[1:29:28] Speaker 2: are some potations talk about later.
[1:29:32] Speaker 5: Okay, okay, but as a basic rule, it exists, right, sure, okay,
[1:29:39] Speaker 5: So let's the hold on. Second, I lost my spot.
[1:29:46] Speaker 15: So does it make sense to you even if we
[1:29:49] Speaker 15: didn't exist before this life, that we're in organized intelligence
[1:29:53] Speaker 15: and we're very intelligent, but then we just dissipate after
[1:29:57] Speaker 15: we die.
[1:29:59] Speaker 2: Sure, I mean, intelligence isn't energy, right, these are like that,
[1:30:03] Speaker 2: it's a non sequitor.
[1:30:07] Speaker 7: And just and just so you know, there are atheists
[1:30:09] Speaker 7: that disagree. There's atheistic religions, like certain sects of Buddhism
[1:30:12] Speaker 7: that think that there's reincarnation that's true like that, so
[1:30:16] Speaker 7: you know, you could be you know, some atheists believe
[1:30:18] Speaker 7: in weird things like ghosts and souls and reincarnation. Just
[1:30:21] Speaker 7: then you know, but we don't.
[1:30:23] Speaker 15: Okay, Okay, But I mean I just asked you to
[1:30:26] Speaker 15: have an open mind and just this is what I'm saying.
[1:30:28] Speaker 15: So so going back to that, but does it make
[1:30:34] Speaker 15: sense though that that we would just disappear after we.
[1:30:38] Speaker 5: Die, can't be destroyed. Okay, okay, Well that.
[1:30:41] Speaker 2: Means because our intelligence isn't energy, right, like these these
[1:30:44] Speaker 2: are unrelated. Well, we've run on energy and energy our body,
[1:30:48] Speaker 2: our body, our body uses energy, and I mean you
[1:30:52] Speaker 2: know that, you don't you don't know? So our body
[1:30:56] Speaker 2: uses energy. That energy absolutely does dissipate into the ground
[1:31:00] Speaker 2: when we're buried, or dissipate into the smoke when we're
[1:31:03] Speaker 2: when we are cremated, like there is stored energy and
[1:31:07] Speaker 2: our muscles, in our cells, in our you know, mitochondria
[1:31:11] Speaker 2: and all, like, there's stored energy there and it dissipates
[1:31:14] Speaker 2: the environment after you die.
[1:31:16] Speaker 7: So that you're claiming that intelligence is energy.
[1:31:20] Speaker 5: Maybe I'm intelligent. I'm claiming that intelligence could be energy.
[1:31:25] Speaker 2: I don't see how those two things aerated at all.
[1:31:28] Speaker 5: Well, we know that there's different dimensions, right, How do
[1:31:31] Speaker 5: we know if there's not a spiritual Do you.
[1:31:32] Speaker 7: Think do you think God? Do you think God could
[1:31:34] Speaker 7: be Do you think God could be energy?
[1:31:39] Speaker 5: I think he's both. I think he's energy and matter.
[1:31:42] Speaker 2: You're gonna make me cry why.
[1:31:46] Speaker 7: To say God is energy? You're gonna have to I
[1:31:48] Speaker 7: don't even know what you mean by energy anymore.
[1:31:50] Speaker 5: Or I think that God, Okay, I don't.
[1:31:54] Speaker 15: I don't know if I should get too deep into
[1:31:56] Speaker 15: that because there's things that I know that I probably
[1:31:58] Speaker 15: shouldn't tell everybody. But I'm not trying to brag. I'm
[1:32:02] Speaker 15: just saying, but let me go back to something else.
[1:32:06] Speaker 15: So my biggest problem with science right now is going
[1:32:11] Speaker 15: back to the whole infinite universe thing. I think that
[1:32:15] Speaker 15: science is a finite way of approaching infinite universes.
[1:32:23] Speaker 2: Okay, so.
[1:32:26] Speaker 5: We thank you.
[1:32:27] Speaker 15: We we do know that there's a lot that we
[1:32:29] Speaker 15: don't know about science, and so I believe there's a
[1:32:33] Speaker 15: quantum world around us made of energy because we don't.
[1:32:37] Speaker 5: We don't we can't see it. Well, what does that mean?
[1:32:42] Speaker 3: This is happening now?
[1:32:45] Speaker 2: It's eleven?
[1:32:48] Speaker 5: And then.
[1:32:51] Speaker 2: You found that way funnier than it is.
[1:32:53] Speaker 5: By the way, I'm sorry, I have epiphania. I laughed
[1:32:56] Speaker 5: too much. I'm sorry I keep it chucking.
[1:32:59] Speaker 3: No, no, they laughing can take mind.
[1:33:03] Speaker 5: You didn't know. You didn't know? I have a crazy laugh.
[1:33:05] Speaker 5: Everybody tells me.
[1:33:06] Speaker 2: I know, I know anyway, Yeah, so's it's a reference
[1:33:11] Speaker 2: to Star trek and also reference to Night eleven.
[1:33:13] Speaker 4: Go ahead.
[1:33:15] Speaker 15: I'm not sure if I feel about that, but okay, so, uh,
[1:33:20] Speaker 15: that means we don't really know what's out there.
[1:33:23] Speaker 5: So I'm saying that. I mean, so you're explaining my
[1:33:26] Speaker 5: concept of God is if there's.
[1:33:34] Speaker 2: Are you outside right now?
[1:33:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, Caleb, but there's some wind hitting your microphone and
[1:33:39] Speaker 1: it's making it impossible to hear you.
[1:33:41] Speaker 15: Okay, hold on a second, wait for the subside little bit. Yeah,
[1:33:46] Speaker 15: I guess that earlier you guys calm me outside.
[1:33:48] Speaker 5: This bad time.
[1:33:49] Speaker 7: M Wait, so you're your Latter day saint? Yes, this,
[1:33:57] Speaker 7: and this is in line with your church to say
[1:33:59] Speaker 7: God could be inner.
[1:34:02] Speaker 5: Not necessarily.
[1:34:06] Speaker 15: My understanding reality is that there's a lot more do
[1:34:11] Speaker 15: we have to learn that we haven't learned yet. It's
[1:34:13] Speaker 15: kind of like, okay, so going back to what Haley
[1:34:15] Speaker 15: was talking about when you guys talking about with Haley,
[1:34:17] Speaker 15: because I was listening, I think that Okay, First, well,
[1:34:24] Speaker 15: I believe in the Church generally believes the Bible was
[1:34:29] Speaker 15: corrupted by people who are corrupted by the devil, even
[1:34:32] Speaker 15: though you probably don't believe in the devil. But let's
[1:34:34] Speaker 15: say that there's an enemy of God, and that he
[1:34:36] Speaker 15: tried to corrupt the Bible. That's why it says in
[1:34:39] Speaker 15: the Bible that if you take away or you add
[1:34:41] Speaker 15: to my Bible, you will be condemned, because he knew
[1:34:44] Speaker 15: that would happen.
[1:34:45] Speaker 1: Wait where does it say that?
[1:34:49] Speaker 15: I think at the end, I'm It's been a while
[1:34:51] Speaker 15: since I've read it. I've just getting back into church again,
[1:34:53] Speaker 15: so I don't remember exactly. But so you can look
[1:34:55] Speaker 15: at type it into Google search.
[1:34:57] Speaker 1: You're trying to quote Revelation twenty two and really too
[1:35:02] Speaker 1: is a warning specifically about the scroll of Revelation. It
[1:35:07] Speaker 1: says not to tamper with the scroll of this scroll,
[1:35:11] Speaker 1: meaning the one.
[1:35:11] Speaker 7: He's hold on.
[1:35:12] Speaker 5: A second scroll, the state Bible scroll.
[1:35:16] Speaker 1: The word Bible doesn't show in the Bible anywhere.
[1:35:19] Speaker 5: Okay, okay, well, I mean I think it could mean
[1:35:22] Speaker 5: the whole Bible. But anyway, it.
[1:35:25] Speaker 1: Says it says the scroll of this prophecy.
[1:35:30] Speaker 6: Nineteen.
[1:35:30] Speaker 1: Right, it's clearly it's just for John's revelation.
[1:35:37] Speaker 5: Okay, that's fine, let's just move on. Then. I I
[1:35:41] Speaker 5: can't agree with that. That's fine, But that's the question
[1:35:46] Speaker 5: about your book. Sure, go ahead, the book Mormon.
[1:35:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh was it? Second five? If I remember correctly,
[1:35:54] Speaker 1: it talks about how God cursed human being so that
[1:35:57] Speaker 1: they would be reprehensible to his people, they would no
[1:36:00] Speaker 1: longer be white and delightsome. What do you make of that?
[1:36:05] Speaker 15: Well, I don't necessarily like that idea, but in my
[1:36:11] Speaker 15: opinion and my belief, God sometimes does not necessarily good
[1:36:16] Speaker 15: things in order to accomplish his goals, which I think
[1:36:20] Speaker 15: are good. I know it's not a popular belief, and
[1:36:24] Speaker 15: a lot of Christians would probably offended by that.
[1:36:26] Speaker 1: Well, I know, I get that. I guess the problem
[1:36:29] Speaker 1: that creates for us is it means that God is
[1:36:33] Speaker 1: inherently racist, right, because it says, wherefore as they were
[1:36:39] Speaker 1: white and exceedingly delightsome, that they might not be enticing
[1:36:42] Speaker 1: to my people. So basically, God is admitting that it's
[1:36:46] Speaker 1: more delightsome, it's more attractive to be white than to
[1:36:50] Speaker 1: not be white. Do you think that's kind of an
[1:36:52] Speaker 1: odd thing for a God to think?
[1:36:55] Speaker 15: I know it says in the Bible to be perfect,
[1:36:57] Speaker 15: even as my father and having is perfect, But so
[1:37:02] Speaker 15: if God.
[1:37:04] Speaker 5: I believe in God, but that doesn't mean that he's perfect.
[1:37:08] Speaker 1: Does the Book of Mormon say that God is perfect.
[1:37:12] Speaker 5: Uh maybe I don't remember.
[1:37:14] Speaker 7: He already sort of intinuated that he'd find to go
[1:37:16] Speaker 7: against his church. Maybe listarp this way. I want you
[1:37:20] Speaker 7: to complete the blank. God exists because and then fill
[1:37:25] Speaker 7: in the blank.
[1:37:29] Speaker 5: All right, all right, I'll share it. I don't care. Okay,
[1:37:33] Speaker 5: So I had a vision. I know you might not
[1:37:37] Speaker 5: believe that, but I had a vision. My friends, he
[1:37:40] Speaker 5: just follows clinging right now. That's okay.
[1:37:43] Speaker 15: So God basically told me where he came from. He
[1:37:46] Speaker 15: told me that there was another planet a long time ago,
[1:37:50] Speaker 15: like a million years ago or so. I don't know
[1:37:53] Speaker 15: the exact timeline where humans first existed or they existed
[1:37:57] Speaker 15: at some time, and because there was of God to
[1:38:00] Speaker 15: reset the world, they were able to advance really, really far.
[1:38:05] Speaker 15: And there was a legendary scientist I don't know his name,
[1:38:09] Speaker 15: kind of similar to Einstein, and you know, nineteen oh five,
[1:38:14] Speaker 15: but like imagine like one hundred years in the future
[1:38:16] Speaker 15: if Einstein came back, so he was able to figure out.
[1:38:21] Speaker 5: Where doc matter came from or figure it out documented
[1:38:26] Speaker 5: you finished.
[1:38:26] Speaker 7: But before you finish is do you think that we're committed?
[1:38:32] Speaker 7: Do you think what we should believe? Your testimony.
[1:38:35] Speaker 5: You don't have to just take it with a grained salt.
[1:38:37] Speaker 7: I mean, okay, what I'm interested in, and Blitz might
[1:38:42] Speaker 7: have something to say about whatever you just said, But
[1:38:45] Speaker 7: what I'm interested is something that would commit us to
[1:38:48] Speaker 7: believing that God exists.
[1:38:49] Speaker 2: I'm not.
[1:38:50] Speaker 7: I'm personally not very interested in whatever visions or dreams
[1:38:54] Speaker 7: or you know, any of that stuff. I'm not interested
[1:38:56] Speaker 7: in that stuff right because I don't I'm not committed
[1:38:59] Speaker 7: to believing any of it right now, Blitz, did you
[1:39:00] Speaker 7: want to say something.
[1:39:04] Speaker 2: I would have rather not? Something about dark matter?
[1:39:12] Speaker 5: Well, listen, listen the.
[1:39:13] Speaker 15: Whole Listen to the story. It's not very long, and
[1:39:16] Speaker 15: I'm trying to explain wet behind God. I mean, you're
[1:39:19] Speaker 15: kind of stuck with me, to be honest.
[1:39:22] Speaker 2: Well, I mean we're not. We're not really, I mean
[1:39:25] Speaker 2: you kick me. You're not.
[1:39:27] Speaker 5: You're not even a tiny toe curious to find out
[1:39:29] Speaker 5: where God might come from.
[1:39:32] Speaker 3: No, I like Caleb, I want to hear the story.
[1:39:34] Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, okay, all right, well I'll be listening
[1:39:38] Speaker 2: coffee apparently.
[1:39:40] Speaker 5: Okay, that's fine. This one. So where was I? Oh? Yeah,
[1:39:46] Speaker 5: you figured out dark matter? He used it?
[1:39:47] Speaker 15: To make light matter or like vhoton photon juiced basically
[1:39:53] Speaker 15: liquid light.
[1:39:54] Speaker 5: Yeah, liquid light, that's what I call it.
[1:39:56] Speaker 1: Liquid.
[1:39:57] Speaker 15: And then boy, but then this, the story that he
[1:40:00] Speaker 15: told me was that he the scientist, didn't get it.
[1:40:05] Speaker 15: Apparently the government got involved and it got misplaced, and
[1:40:10] Speaker 15: then somebody else got it instead, and that should end
[1:40:12] Speaker 15: up becoming god for a reason. But he basically injected
[1:40:17] Speaker 15: the photon juice or the light looked a light into
[1:40:19] Speaker 15: himself and then he became transformed him and he became
[1:40:23] Speaker 15: exalted and became God.
[1:40:25] Speaker 1: Well, that is something I'll give you credit. Caleb. You're
[1:40:30] Speaker 1: the first person I've ever heard referring to photon juice.
[1:40:37] Speaker 5: That's awesome. Things like, I mean, I know it's a
[1:40:43] Speaker 5: lot to process and like take in.
[1:40:46] Speaker 1: To give you every amount of credit in the world.
[1:40:50] Speaker 1: You could consider photons juice because they come like from
[1:40:54] Speaker 1: squeezed electrons, right, so they're like electrons. Photons are electron juice.
[1:41:00] Speaker 1: But I think Blitz has got some things to say
[1:41:02] Speaker 1: about photon juice.
[1:41:04] Speaker 5: That's her.
[1:41:04] Speaker 2: That's I I really don't I'm just reconsidering my life choices.
[1:41:14] Speaker 5: You might quit altogether. Oh no, I didn't break you did.
[1:41:17] Speaker 5: I I didn't know I was that powerful.
[1:41:23] Speaker 13: A cool story.
[1:41:25] Speaker 7: I don't know what to do with it.
[1:41:27] Speaker 3: It was all right. We've got a huge back love
[1:41:31] Speaker 3: of callers that want to get in and I got
[1:41:35] Speaker 3: to talk.
[1:41:35] Speaker 5: To Thank you you guys too. I really enjoyed that.
[1:41:38] Speaker 5: That's fun.
[1:41:40] Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna open up a juicing a juicing store.
[1:41:45] Speaker 2: I think I need to reconsider my life choices.
[1:41:49] Speaker 5: Like fun.
[1:41:50] Speaker 7: It's funny how people are like split about. Like some
[1:41:52] Speaker 7: people are like I want to hear it. I want
[1:41:53] Speaker 7: to hear it, and other people are like no, no, no,
[1:41:56] Speaker 7: like something.
[1:41:56] Speaker 13: We're all split.
[1:41:58] Speaker 2: I mean yeah, like like to be like I can
[1:42:00] Speaker 2: understand that, Like it depends on the person. Yeah, anyway,
[1:42:04] Speaker 2: we should. I think we have a few super chats
[1:42:06] Speaker 2: and then we should bring on the next.
[1:42:07] Speaker 1: Guest we do. Yeah, and I promise Wan would be
[1:42:09] Speaker 1: in next. It's gonna be Wan and then Matt hunchin
[1:42:13] Speaker 1: the dumpling. Thank you for the five dollars. Supertest says
[1:42:15] Speaker 1: the silence when Haley accused you guys of being disrespectful
[1:42:19] Speaker 1: was comical.
[1:42:20] Speaker 3: You guys are chill af good things. She didn't crash
[1:42:23] Speaker 3: into the line with Matt.
[1:42:25] Speaker 1: I was a little hard on her because she started
[1:42:27] Speaker 1: the conversation with insinuating that I lack understanding, and that's
[1:42:30] Speaker 1: never a good way to start a conversation. But typically,
[1:42:34] Speaker 1: you know, we're pretty chill. As long as the guest
[1:42:36] Speaker 1: doesn't come in swinging, we're not gonna swing back. But
[1:42:39] Speaker 1: you're right. If she tried doing that with Matt, Dilla, honey,
[1:42:42] Speaker 1: he would have ate her alive and then muted her
[1:42:44] Speaker 1: and then gave her a speech and then sent her
[1:42:47] Speaker 1: back to her parents to get spanked. Space Lord, thank
[1:42:50] Speaker 1: you so much for the five dollar superchat. My friend
[1:42:52] Speaker 1: says women were not trusted for testimony in court, but
[1:42:55] Speaker 1: we don't have the testimony of women at the tomb,
[1:42:58] Speaker 1: and the Gospels are not a court transcript.
[1:43:01] Speaker 5: That is true.
[1:43:02] Speaker 1: And the other thing, too, is the only thing that
[1:43:05] Speaker 1: makes sense in the story. Would we have to women
[1:43:08] Speaker 1: to define Jesus because women were the ones that perfumed
[1:43:12] Speaker 1: the dead bodies, It would be silly to plug a
[1:43:14] Speaker 1: man into that role, Like why are men going to
[1:43:16] Speaker 1: perfume the body of Jesus? That's not what men do, right, So,
[1:43:19] Speaker 1: like it's just not a good argument because it cuts
[1:43:21] Speaker 1: both ways and Fern, thank you for the additional to
[1:43:25] Speaker 1: our super chet friends, says okay, but have you considered
[1:43:28] Speaker 1: photon j listen for the artistic friends. Apparently now we
[1:43:35] Speaker 1: need to make some emojis for this channel. We don't
[1:43:37] Speaker 1: have any emojis yet for this channel, but we've been
[1:43:39] Speaker 1: talking about doing emojis and memberships. If somebody can make
[1:43:42] Speaker 1: a good photon juice emoji, I think that's going to
[1:43:45] Speaker 1: be our first. That's got to be our first one.
[1:43:48] Speaker 2: Like what would be good would be like somebody like
[1:43:50] Speaker 2: ringing a light bulb and the like photon stripping out
[1:43:53] Speaker 2: or something. But it has to be small because it
[1:43:55] Speaker 2: has to be an emoji.
[1:43:56] Speaker 3: Right, gotta happen, Gotta happen.
[1:43:58] Speaker 7: It's pretty good, Mark, We could you know, maybe designer.
[1:44:02] Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah, that's true. I'm making thou keeps you light?
[1:44:08] Speaker 7: Yeah, light and bright.
[1:44:13] Speaker 2: I love the Yeah, photon juice makes you bright. Yeah,
[1:44:16] Speaker 2: it's a good that works too.
[1:44:18] Speaker 3: It's a it's a good one. It's a good one.
[1:44:19] Speaker 2: You know. I have a cousin who's in the who's
[1:44:21] Speaker 2: in the the drink industry, and maybe I could uh
[1:44:25] Speaker 2: the idea anyway, all right, we have another guest. Let's
[1:44:30] Speaker 2: bring them on.
[1:44:31] Speaker 1: All right, we have got now one with us.
[1:44:34] Speaker 3: How you doing?
[1:44:35] Speaker 2: One? Hi?
[1:44:36] Speaker 6: What's what's up?
[1:44:38] Speaker 2: One second?
[1:44:39] Speaker 1: Let me turn your echo cancelation either on or off,
[1:44:42] Speaker 1: although it's already on.
[1:44:43] Speaker 3: But it sounds like sounds like you've got multiple microphones
[1:44:48] Speaker 3: and speakers over there when you talk, we're getting.
[1:44:50] Speaker 6: Double really okay, I don't know why?
[1:44:56] Speaker 8: Maybe does.
[1:44:59] Speaker 1: You're Are you using a loud speaker? Are you listening
[1:45:02] Speaker 1: to this with a loud speaker?
[1:45:06] Speaker 9: Yeah?
[1:45:11] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, put your headphones on, buddy, see if that helps?
[1:45:20] Speaker 1: Holy ship?
[1:45:21] Speaker 6: Okay, let's see.
[1:45:32] Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, this is it.
[1:45:41] Speaker 8: I was just looking at me.
[1:45:45] Speaker 5: Oh better know.
[1:45:48] Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't seem to be as echoly as it
[1:45:50] Speaker 3: was before. And it sounds like you're in a cave.
[1:45:55] Speaker 1: But we can work with that. No one's worried about that.
[1:45:58] Speaker 1: Sometimes some rooms just have that cave sounds. That's no problem.
[1:46:03] Speaker 3: So one welcome in. Are you at least eighteen? And
[1:46:05] Speaker 3: do you believe in God?
[1:46:08] Speaker 9: Well?
[1:46:09] Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, why.
[1:46:16] Speaker 6: I don't know?
[1:46:17] Speaker 8: Is wrong.
[1:46:24] Speaker 2: It is not permissible. I appreciate you asking. And okay, okay,
[1:46:33] Speaker 2: is he still justin?
[1:46:35] Speaker 1: Is he still doubling for everybody because he's doubling for me.
[1:46:37] Speaker 2: Not not for me, but he's wants to do double's
[1:46:39] Speaker 2: advocate anyway.
[1:46:40] Speaker 3: So oh no, sorry one, we don't do Devil's advocates. Sorry, man, Justin, can.
[1:46:45] Speaker 2: You bring Danny up on TikTok Oh? Danny's finally in
[1:46:49] Speaker 2: the guest box.
[1:46:50] Speaker 7: I just, I just I just got my phone.
[1:46:51] Speaker 3: So yeah, we got him up.
[1:46:53] Speaker 2: Dope, you got him you too, There you go. Otherwise
[1:46:59] Speaker 2: that happens, I almost destroyed the show.
[1:47:01] Speaker 1: It's okay, all right, Well, let's grab Matt from the
[1:47:03] Speaker 1: que I said Matt would be next. We'll grab our
[1:47:06] Speaker 1: two super tests and we'll get Matt. Tim, thank you
[1:47:09] Speaker 1: for the super test. My friend says, Dear God, please
[1:47:11] Speaker 1: let me be the resident ex Mormon guest like EM's
[1:47:15] Speaker 1: is for Islam. L I was one for thirty years,
[1:47:19] Speaker 1: Temple mission everything. I'm on discord, Well, Tim, send me
[1:47:24] Speaker 1: a message on discord. We might we might have that
[1:47:28] Speaker 1: conversation at some time. We don't know anything about you.
[1:47:32] Speaker 1: We typically only bring up people we know.
[1:47:34] Speaker 2: But Tim, let's have Tim as a longtime supporter. Tior
[1:47:38] Speaker 2: my channel too. But yeah, yeah, I mean there is
[1:47:41] Speaker 2: a question. So there's a question of somebody might be
[1:47:45] Speaker 2: an expert, but there is something to be said of
[1:47:47] Speaker 2: being able to communicate their ideas effectively and do the
[1:47:49] Speaker 2: rhetoric rhetoric appropriately and that can always be that can
[1:47:52] Speaker 2: be a shit show if you're not done well.
[1:47:54] Speaker 1: So you know, there's a conversation, Bead, but there is
[1:47:56] Speaker 1: certainly a conversation that we had around that. But Tim,
[1:47:58] Speaker 1: we certainly appreciate lending your expertise to us because it
[1:48:02] Speaker 1: might come in very handy for us. And critical, thank
[1:48:06] Speaker 1: you so much for the twenty dollars super chat. That's huge, friends,
[1:48:08] Speaker 1: says photon juice is what you get when you juice
[1:48:12] Speaker 1: electric lettuce. That's good.
[1:48:15] Speaker 2: That's good.
[1:48:17] Speaker 3: That is the answer.
[1:48:17] Speaker 2: That is the answer.
[1:48:18] Speaker 3: Actually, we appreciate that.
[1:48:20] Speaker 1: And Sailah, thank you for the five dollars supertest, says
[1:48:22] Speaker 1: photon juice is what I imagine some scientists called their semen.
[1:48:29] Speaker 2: Maybe they're they're love rockets, love.
[1:48:38] Speaker 3: Unbelievable.
[1:48:39] Speaker 1: Look, I mean, if you put some jumper cables on
[1:48:42] Speaker 1: your nips and then play like start me up, then maybe.
[1:48:46] Speaker 3: You can call it photon juice. There's some electrons flowing passing.
[1:48:50] Speaker 3: Thank you for the five dollars.
[1:48:51] Speaker 7: Super chests say, I think I think they're right. I
[1:48:53] Speaker 7: think we need Jesus.
[1:48:54] Speaker 3: All right, we're off the real guy weird.
[1:48:57] Speaker 2: That's true.
[1:49:01] Speaker 1: As an ex Mormon, I can say authoritatively that Photon
[1:49:05] Speaker 1: Juice Injected is a great band name. I listen, apparently
[1:49:10] Speaker 1: this is We're gonna get T shirts and mugs made
[1:49:11] Speaker 1: up friends. Photon Juice is gonna be on the rails soon.
[1:49:15] Speaker 1: Jam Nick, thank you for the fight. Our supertest says,
[1:49:17] Speaker 1: does anyone know where to get real photon juice? All
[1:49:20] Speaker 1: I can find is this faux ton juice tastes like
[1:49:23] Speaker 1: battery acid. You see what he did there? That was
[1:49:26] Speaker 1: a good That was a good pun poeic fake?
[1:49:29] Speaker 2: Is my connection breaking up?
[1:49:31] Speaker 3: No, you're good, Yeah, my connection is.
[1:49:33] Speaker 7: But it looks fine on YouTube. That's I'm looking at it.
[1:49:36] Speaker 2: So it's weird. It's sound okay, because Justin sounded like
[1:49:39] Speaker 2: a robot for a second.
[1:49:40] Speaker 4: There.
[1:49:42] Speaker 3: You sound good?
[1:49:43] Speaker 7: Yeah he did, but I I I don't know what happened.
[1:49:46] Speaker 2: Okay, so it was on Justin's and then.
[1:49:48] Speaker 1: Okay, possibly everything sounds good on my end. But Jammick,
[1:49:53] Speaker 1: thank you for the supertest. I really appreciate that I
[1:49:55] Speaker 1: did see a TikTok.
[1:49:57] Speaker 2: Justin you're breaking up about your connection is a little
[1:49:59] Speaker 2: bit bad.
[1:50:01] Speaker 7: Yeah, but what's weird is that he's fine on TikTok
[1:50:04] Speaker 7: and on yeah.
[1:50:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fine. It's fine everywhere else. It's
[1:50:07] Speaker 2: just for us and for the people who are in
[1:50:09] Speaker 2: the anyway, go ahead.
[1:50:10] Speaker 3: Continue, Ninja interesting. Yeah, we'll see what happens.
[1:50:18] Speaker 1: I think you're fine now, Okay, it might have just
[1:50:22] Speaker 1: been a temporary uh wi fi glitch. Had too much
[1:50:26] Speaker 1: photon juice in the lines.
[1:50:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't want photon juice in your fiber optic. Oh,
[1:50:35] Speaker 2: this is never gonna die. This is so funny.
[1:50:37] Speaker 3: Photon juice is the new garbage game.
[1:50:39] Speaker 2: And well, I mean we're not letting go of garbage game. Man,
[1:50:43] Speaker 2: that's gonna live forever.
[1:50:44] Speaker 4: But it is what it is.
[1:50:48] Speaker 1: Oh, anyway, I need to redo the guest box. But
[1:50:51] Speaker 1: welcome in, Matt.
[1:50:54] Speaker 4: You guys hear me?
[1:50:54] Speaker 8: All right?
[1:50:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, we can a little bit quiet.
[1:50:57] Speaker 3: But we can hear you.
[1:50:59] Speaker 6: All right.
[1:51:00] Speaker 4: Well, first off, i'd like.
[1:51:01] Speaker 1: To Matt, can you get closer to your mic? It
[1:51:06] Speaker 1: sounds like you're in a different county from your phone.
[1:51:11] Speaker 4: Can you hear me?
[1:51:12] Speaker 3: No, it's better.
[1:51:13] Speaker 4: Yeah, my apologies. I've got my headphones in much better
[1:51:18] Speaker 4: these these new nifty thing moriggs. But yeah, first off,
[1:51:22] Speaker 4: I would like to thank you gentlemen for this show.
[1:51:25] Speaker 4: I've learned more in the fifteen minutes that I've been
[1:51:27] Speaker 4: hearing than I have any time reading the Bible. Also,
[1:51:33] Speaker 4: I would like to point out that I have not
[1:51:35] Speaker 4: actually read in the Bible in my entire life. I've
[1:51:37] Speaker 4: heard scriptures throughout the churches, but as it stands, I
[1:51:41] Speaker 4: have never I have never actually sought out any information
[1:51:47] Speaker 4: for myself. It is mainly because of my belief that
[1:51:53] Speaker 4: if God wants something to be said to me, he
[1:51:55] Speaker 4: will make sure that I hear it, And so there
[1:51:57] Speaker 4: before you can may call me a layman. So I
[1:52:00] Speaker 4: apologize for the time, but I do want to ask,
[1:52:04] Speaker 4: do you guys mean God isn't real as in our
[1:52:08] Speaker 4: understanding of the Christian God? And do you mean real
[1:52:11] Speaker 4: as in real of our understanding or just real as
[1:52:15] Speaker 4: in reality?
[1:52:18] Speaker 2: So we mean, generally speaking, any kind of creator deity,
[1:52:23] Speaker 2: whether that's the Christian God, or whether that's the God
[1:52:26] Speaker 2: of I don't know, Greek paganism, or the God of
[1:52:31] Speaker 2: you know, like some like it cuts a quatdal or
[1:52:35] Speaker 2: I actually don't know what the creator deity is and
[1:52:38] Speaker 2: in Inkolin traditional folklore, but we mean any creator duty
[1:52:42] Speaker 2: and we mean real in the sense as does does
[1:52:44] Speaker 2: it exist? Does it like actually have some existence in
[1:52:48] Speaker 2: the world.
[1:52:50] Speaker 4: So you be meaning that he has his finger in
[1:52:53] Speaker 4: the pie sort of deal.
[1:52:56] Speaker 2: You cut out a minute? No, so, so it doesn't
[1:52:58] Speaker 2: have to be a physical existence. It could just some
[1:53:00] Speaker 2: sort of metaphysical existence. The question is is is it
[1:53:03] Speaker 2: does it exist in the sense that like you or
[1:53:06] Speaker 2: I or the universe of the laws of physics exist,
[1:53:08] Speaker 2: or does it exist like Voldemort exists?
[1:53:11] Speaker 4: Mm? So you say so the laws laid down in nature?
[1:53:18] Speaker 2: Anybody else but me?
[1:53:19] Speaker 7: He's breaking and breaking up from me.
[1:53:21] Speaker 1: It's funny because he's clear for me.
[1:53:23] Speaker 2: Maybe yeah, I wonder if Oh, but you're breaking up.
[1:53:26] Speaker 2: Oh okay, video might yeah, this is a video ninja issue.
[1:53:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, the video ninja server might be slow right now?
[1:53:36] Speaker 4: Hm, well, my apologies.
[1:53:38] Speaker 1: It's not you don't have anything.
[1:53:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, it's yeah, it's it's definitely in Justin's end.
[1:53:47] Speaker 4: Justin you You're You're a true trooper. Look at you.
[1:53:49] Speaker 4: Not even the Internet can keep up with you.
[1:53:52] Speaker 3: I appreciate that.
[1:53:54] Speaker 2: Okay, I think that we're good. It's fine. It's fine again.
[1:53:56] Speaker 2: So anyway you were saying.
[1:53:59] Speaker 4: I was trying to get a clarification on what we
[1:54:03] Speaker 4: are describing as the touch of God's influence on the
[1:54:10] Speaker 4: world that we live in. Well, like, we don't believe
[1:54:14] Speaker 4: that something alone.
[1:54:16] Speaker 1: I mean, we don't believe that when God exists, or
[1:54:18] Speaker 1: that he influences anything, or that she influences anything. What
[1:54:22] Speaker 1: we're kind of talking to the guests about is whether
[1:54:26] Speaker 1: or not there's good reason to believe that there is
[1:54:28] Speaker 1: a God. Right, So, whatever your God is, is there
[1:54:31] Speaker 1: a reason why one would feel compelled to believe in it?
[1:54:37] Speaker 4: Well, one of the leading arguments I hear these days
[1:54:41] Speaker 4: is that disproving something is far harder than proving something
[1:54:48] Speaker 4: because you cannot find the evidence if it is not
[1:54:50] Speaker 4: right in front of you now as I have.
[1:54:54] Speaker 1: If you don't mind, let me add to that. I
[1:54:56] Speaker 1: think disproving things that don't exist is possible, Like you
[1:55:00] Speaker 1: can't prove a negative. I mean, there are ways of
[1:55:03] Speaker 1: looking at the evidence. But like if I said to you, Matt,
[1:55:06] Speaker 1: can you give me verifiable proof that there's not a
[1:55:10] Speaker 1: fire breathing dragon that lives in my basement, but he's
[1:55:13] Speaker 1: also invisible, Like, could you give me that proof?
[1:55:16] Speaker 4: It's that old. It's the old argument. Does a treaty
[1:55:19] Speaker 4: make a noise when it falls in the woods and
[1:55:20] Speaker 4: there's no there to witness it. But the thing that
[1:55:24] Speaker 4: we can say is that yes, actually does make noise,
[1:55:27] Speaker 4: because I have seen it happen. Right, So in that regard,
[1:55:31] Speaker 4: now am I am? I thinking along the lines of
[1:55:35] Speaker 4: is God in in irrefutably there and looking out for us?
[1:55:43] Speaker 4: Maybe in the context of you know, a guardian angel,
[1:55:46] Speaker 4: or perhaps he has a you know, a cent a
[1:55:49] Speaker 4: one of it. There's many different I apologize names are
[1:55:56] Speaker 4: absolutely impossible for me to hold on to. But there
[1:56:04] Speaker 4: is there is a group of angels I believe that
[1:56:06] Speaker 4: are up in the higher choirs that were made to
[1:56:12] Speaker 4: watch over man while he progressed to do God's will.
[1:56:17] Speaker 4: And as for proof I would, I personally do not
[1:56:22] Speaker 4: know myself, But I did catch wind of an understanding
[1:56:26] Speaker 4: that we recently found out there was an asteroid hanging
[1:56:28] Speaker 4: around our moon that to me was something of a
[1:56:35] Speaker 4: wake up call to kind of well, really, I.
[1:56:38] Speaker 1: Guess what we're looking for is for someone who believes
[1:56:41] Speaker 1: in the God to give us an argument for why
[1:56:44] Speaker 1: their God is real. So if I said my God
[1:56:48] Speaker 1: is real because of blank, why would you what? Where's
[1:56:52] Speaker 1: the blank? What do we fill in there?
[1:56:56] Speaker 4: Hmm, Well, that is I believe one of the reasons
[1:56:59] Speaker 4: why the Bible was left so vague in the Book
[1:57:02] Speaker 4: of the enocht was removed because it was too poignant
[1:57:10] Speaker 4: for the individual to grasp what was meant to be
[1:57:13] Speaker 4: grasped in a simple understanding. Albert Einstein once said that
[1:57:19] Speaker 4: the ah what did he say? Well, basically say along
[1:57:28] Speaker 4: the lines you cannot judge a fish on its ability
[1:57:34] Speaker 4: to climb a tree, otherwise it will believe its entire
[1:57:37] Speaker 4: life that it is stupid. He also pointed out that
[1:57:41] Speaker 4: you cannot have a ah, my word, there's there is much.
[1:57:53] Speaker 8: That he Let's do it.
[1:57:54] Speaker 7: Let's do it this way. Let's let's do it this way.
[1:57:57] Speaker 7: You should believe in God because and the blank fill
[1:58:00] Speaker 7: and finish the sentence.
[1:58:03] Speaker 4: If you you should believe in God because you do
[1:58:09] Speaker 4: not understand what you do not understand.
[1:58:14] Speaker 7: Yeah, but but we might agree that. I mean, that's
[1:58:16] Speaker 7: that's like saying you don't know what you don't know
[1:58:19] Speaker 7: it's not really saying very much.
[1:58:21] Speaker 4: Okay, saying what you do not know is like much
[1:58:24] Speaker 4: like comparing the teller to chocolate peanut butter. There is
[1:58:28] Speaker 4: just so much of a difference.
[1:58:30] Speaker 7: Maybe do you think you can do you think you
[1:58:33] Speaker 7: can know? Do you think you can know that God exists?
[1:58:37] Speaker 4: I think if you ask.
[1:58:41] Speaker 7: Made me say yes or no, give yes or no,
[1:58:42] Speaker 7: and then you can explain. So do you think you
[1:58:45] Speaker 7: can know that God exists?
[1:58:47] Speaker 5: Yes?
[1:58:47] Speaker 4: I think you can go ahead much well. One of
[1:58:51] Speaker 4: the one of the easy, one of the easy point
[1:58:53] Speaker 4: to objects is where did the idea of fantasy come from?
[1:58:58] Speaker 4: I really think about it.
[1:59:00] Speaker 7: But how does one know that God is somebody? But
[1:59:02] Speaker 7: but how does one know that God exist?
[1:59:10] Speaker 4: How does one know that a good friend exists?
[1:59:14] Speaker 8: Oh? Boy?
[1:59:15] Speaker 1: All right, well listen, Matt, I don't know. You sound
[1:59:19] Speaker 1: really nice, and we love nice people. But maybe what
[1:59:22] Speaker 1: you should do is go back and jot down some
[1:59:24] Speaker 1: notes of evidences or reasons to believe in God, and
[1:59:28] Speaker 1: then come back and try again. Because it sounds like
[1:59:31] Speaker 1: you you haven't thought about how you would answer this
[1:59:34] Speaker 1: question yet, and you're you're not really sure what your
[1:59:36] Speaker 1: response would be to it, and so you probably do.
[1:59:40] Speaker 1: There probably is a good reason that you're not able
[1:59:42] Speaker 1: to articulate right now, but we're looking for the reason
[1:59:45] Speaker 1: we're and if you don't have one, then.
[1:59:48] Speaker 4: Well this is this is one of the This is
[1:59:49] Speaker 4: one of the reasons I wanted to clarify what the
[1:59:54] Speaker 4: what your idea of real was, because if you if
[1:59:58] Speaker 4: you are not, if you're not ground a solid grounding
[2:00:02] Speaker 4: of understanding, because I know, you know, it's like a
[2:00:03] Speaker 4: lot of people what they what they mean by you know,
[2:00:06] Speaker 4: guy doesn't real? Is we mean your guy doesn't real
[2:00:09] Speaker 4: because you are not we mean not fictional, not fictional. Yes,
[2:00:17] Speaker 4: well not non fictional.
[2:00:19] Speaker 2: So you are not fictional.
[2:00:25] Speaker 4: Not fictional meaning that you see the lights turning on,
[2:00:30] Speaker 4: but you've never seen electricity in motion or action or
[2:00:34] Speaker 4: justin really I mean, oh.
[2:00:36] Speaker 2: Wait, no, never mind, I have this power. I have
[2:00:42] Speaker 2: that power. By the way, uh, a huge, huge pet
[2:00:47] Speaker 2: peeve of mine for some reason, because Einstein's name is
[2:00:50] Speaker 2: literally synonymous with genius. Now like it don't like, if
[2:00:53] Speaker 2: you look up Einstein in the dictionary, you'll find the
[2:00:55] Speaker 2: words or a sorce of fine genius. Every quote is
[2:00:58] Speaker 2: attributed to him. Einstein never said anything about the fish
[2:01:01] Speaker 2: judging of fish by its ability to like, there's no
[2:01:03] Speaker 2: evidence that Einstein ever said that. Einstein also never said that,
[2:01:07] Speaker 2: you know, energy cannot be created or destroyed. He never
[2:01:09] Speaker 2: said that. Like Basically, if you think Einstein said something,
[2:01:13] Speaker 2: he probably didn't, unless it was like some stuff with equations,
[2:01:17] Speaker 2: in which case maybe he did.
[2:01:20] Speaker 1: The amount of fictional quotes to get attributed to smart
[2:01:22] Speaker 1: people is wild. Let me grab our super chests. We'll
[2:01:24] Speaker 1: get our next guest in here. I think it's going
[2:01:26] Speaker 1: to be Rumby and then Jave Jave jav. It looks
[2:01:30] Speaker 1: like j A V to me, Yeave, Gretchen. Thank you
[2:01:33] Speaker 1: for the super chat. My friend says, I thought photon
[2:01:36] Speaker 1: Jews came from chem light. Uh maybe maybe thank you, Regen.
[2:01:45] Speaker 7: Have them Speaking of bad quotes, have you what's the
[2:01:48] Speaker 7: worst quote you heard of someone giving that that that
[2:01:52] Speaker 7: said that that Jesus said right like this, like they
[2:01:55] Speaker 7: said that Jesus said, do you know bad ones?
[2:01:59] Speaker 5: You know what?
[2:02:00] Speaker 1: That's a tough one.
[2:02:02] Speaker 7: Yeah, one of the worst.
[2:02:04] Speaker 1: I the quote that I hear the most often that's
[2:02:07] Speaker 1: just not true is that Jesus said he came to
[2:02:10] Speaker 1: get rid of the law. He came to abolish the law,
[2:02:13] Speaker 1: which is just factually untrue.
[2:02:15] Speaker 2: You didn't he come not to abolish the law, literally.
[2:02:19] Speaker 3: Famously came not to abolish the law.
[2:02:24] Speaker 16: Uh.
[2:02:24] Speaker 1: Or some people will say, well, Jesus says that that
[2:02:27] Speaker 1: no one can actually follow the law.
[2:02:28] Speaker 3: He didn't say that.
[2:02:29] Speaker 1: He didn't say that. Herbie, thank you for the super chap.
[2:02:33] Speaker 1: My friend says, I was having a walk through the
[2:02:35] Speaker 1: cemetery today. I saw a man crouching by a grave.
[2:02:38] Speaker 1: I said mourning, and he said, no, having a ship.
[2:02:44] Speaker 2: Oh I guess it.
[2:02:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's not mourning like crying. See when I
[2:02:51] Speaker 1: said ship.
[2:02:53] Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a good joke.
[2:02:55] Speaker 2: I like that.
[2:02:55] Speaker 1: Herbie and Mike, thank you so much for the fine
[2:02:58] Speaker 1: supertes says Foton juice for my men and holy water
[2:03:01] Speaker 1: for my horses.
[2:03:02] Speaker 3: Indeed indeed.
[2:03:05] Speaker 1: And Judas thank you so much for the five hour
[2:03:08] Speaker 1: super test says you miss the shots God takes. Albert
[2:03:12] Speaker 1: Harry Potter tesla.
[2:03:16] Speaker 3: All that I got good. I gotta write that down. Actually, dude,
[2:03:25] Speaker 3: chats off the hook today. This is this is amazing.
[2:03:27] Speaker 2: One second, wait, there's there's there's something that's where is it?
[2:03:32] Speaker 2: If I can find it? It's so good Okay, I'm
[2:03:36] Speaker 2: gonna post this and I'll do my best to read
[2:03:38] Speaker 2: it because I'm just I'm just posting it in the discord.
[2:03:42] Speaker 2: But it's just it's just like a motivational poster and
[2:03:46] Speaker 2: it says do or do not there is no try,
[2:03:49] Speaker 2: and then it attributes the quote to Dumbledore and then
[2:03:51] Speaker 2: has a picture of Dandal next to it. Rage debates
[2:03:56] Speaker 2: the best kind of people.
[2:04:00] Speaker 3: Unreal man, the chats off the chase today.
[2:04:02] Speaker 10: We love it.
[2:04:03] Speaker 1: We love it, and Robin, thank you for the I
[2:04:06] Speaker 1: see the picture. Robin, thank you for the five dollars.
[2:04:08] Speaker 1: Super Chat says the difference between genius and stupidity is
[2:04:11] Speaker 1: that genius has its limits.
[2:04:14] Speaker 2: Also, at this point, it's rage bait. It's got to
[2:04:19] Speaker 2: be rage bait, right it is.
[2:04:20] Speaker 1: It's thank you for that. Anyways, So let me grab
[2:04:23] Speaker 1: our next guest. I thought it was the guest that
[2:04:27] Speaker 1: was going to bring in. They just they literally just
[2:04:29] Speaker 1: dropped out, which means it's going to be onto the
[2:04:32] Speaker 1: next in line after that, which was however, I do
[2:04:37] Speaker 1: or don't pronounce j a V. Welcome in JV. Oh Jay,
[2:04:48] Speaker 1: there go the bottom of the y got cut off.
[2:04:50] Speaker 1: It's j money.
[2:04:52] Speaker 3: How you doing, j money.
[2:04:56] Speaker 2: Good?
[2:04:56] Speaker 1: How you doing?
[2:04:58] Speaker 4: How they good?
[2:04:59] Speaker 5: Everything good?
[2:05:00] Speaker 17: Just calling in, you know, trying to see what's up
[2:05:04] Speaker 17: with the topic. I know you're saying that there's no God, but.
[2:05:10] Speaker 12: All right, like I get it.
[2:05:13] Speaker 17: As far as scripture goes, I agree with you. I
[2:05:15] Speaker 17: think that scriptures a man made two people. You know,
[2:05:21] Speaker 17: they use it to control for power and stuff like that.
[2:05:25] Speaker 17: Since back back in the days, are you a Christian?
[2:05:30] Speaker 17: People might say that because I do believe in a
[2:05:34] Speaker 17: creator if you will, but like not through the biblical
[2:05:40] Speaker 17: scriptures if.
[2:05:41] Speaker 12: You will, Like it's like it's weird do you say that?
[2:05:47] Speaker 17: I say that because I do believe in the ultimate Creator,
[2:05:52] Speaker 17: and I do feel like the Bible and the Quran
[2:05:55] Speaker 17: and all these scriptures are just control too literally things
[2:06:00] Speaker 17: that they use to control the masses.
[2:06:03] Speaker 12: It's something that was formed after kingship.
[2:06:05] Speaker 1: Sorry, sure, well, just to clarify, you believe in a god,
[2:06:08] Speaker 1: but not the god of any of the organized religions tracts.
[2:06:12] Speaker 17: Yeah, I think that there's something out there for sure.
[2:06:15] Speaker 17: This has to be something doesn't have to necessarily be
[2:06:20] Speaker 17: a conscious mind like you with me. See, That's that's
[2:06:22] Speaker 17: one of the things about scripture that bothers me most
[2:06:25] Speaker 17: because they try to quantify something that you cannot quantify.
[2:06:29] Speaker 12: It's just not how things work.
[2:06:31] Speaker 2: You know.
[2:06:31] Speaker 17: You can't expect the app Microsoft to know the ins
[2:06:36] Speaker 17: and out of Bill Gates and everybody that went into writing,
[2:06:40] Speaker 17: every code that went into it.
[2:06:41] Speaker 12: It just is, you know, it just does what it
[2:06:43] Speaker 12: was meant to do, made to do, you know, coded
[2:06:47] Speaker 12: to do.
[2:06:47] Speaker 17: And if you look at everything that's in existence there,
[2:06:51] Speaker 17: it has code in it, it has formation, it has
[2:06:55] Speaker 17: information in it.
[2:06:56] Speaker 1: Like for example, God is real because DNA.
[2:07:01] Speaker 17: No, because because at a certain point in time, I'm
[2:07:05] Speaker 17: not I'm not gonna say, all right, what you want
[2:07:09] Speaker 17: is is he real?
[2:07:10] Speaker 5: Or is he not?
[2:07:11] Speaker 17: A finite, definitive answer. What I'm trying to tell you
[2:07:15] Speaker 17: is that at a certain point in time, humanity hits
[2:07:20] Speaker 17: a wall.
[2:07:21] Speaker 4: You understand, Well, Phil, we'll do this.
[2:07:26] Speaker 1: Danny brought up this format and I like it, so
[2:07:29] Speaker 1: we're going to keep using it for people that are
[2:07:31] Speaker 1: struggling with answering questions. I'm going to start a sentence.
[2:07:34] Speaker 3: I need you to finish it.
[2:07:35] Speaker 1: My God is real because.
[2:07:37] Speaker 12: Blank, we're here, you and I hear right now.
[2:07:43] Speaker 1: To look at the trees. What about us being here
[2:07:45] Speaker 1: has to do with your God.
[2:07:48] Speaker 5: It's not my God.
[2:07:49] Speaker 17: I'm saying that. Oh boy, things don't just pop up
[2:07:52] Speaker 17: out of nowhere, right, I mean, we don't.
[2:07:53] Speaker 1: We don't believe that.
[2:07:55] Speaker 13: Where do you come from?
[2:07:56] Speaker 12: Yeah, he might be a force, he might not he
[2:08:01] Speaker 12: or she or a deity.
[2:08:03] Speaker 2: What if God is the god that you believe that
[2:08:06] Speaker 2: doesn't have a mind, doesn't have a will.
[2:08:08] Speaker 12: This is what I'm saying.
[2:08:09] Speaker 17: That's me trying to give you attributes about something that
[2:08:12] Speaker 17: I can't possibly fathom.
[2:08:14] Speaker 2: So you don't know if the thing that you believe
[2:08:16] Speaker 2: in has a will.
[2:08:18] Speaker 17: What I'm saying is my my reasoning to deduce that
[2:08:22] Speaker 17: something is there is the fact that we're here and
[2:08:26] Speaker 17: we are in an interstate of system.
[2:08:28] Speaker 2: Right, so you've deduced this, So allegedly you've deduced that
[2:08:32] Speaker 2: something is there. Why do you call that something a
[2:08:35] Speaker 2: god rather than the laws of physics or the conditions
[2:08:38] Speaker 2: of the universe.
[2:08:40] Speaker 8: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
[2:08:41] Speaker 2: It wouldn't say that you believe in God.
[2:08:43] Speaker 12: Okay, Well, they believe that something caused everything. You understand
[2:08:48] Speaker 12: what I'm saying.
[2:08:49] Speaker 11: Sure, something you want to call back gods.
[2:08:52] Speaker 6: And that's on you.
[2:08:53] Speaker 17: You want to be a theist and say, look, the
[2:08:55] Speaker 17: way to God is through me, in my word, you know,
[2:08:58] Speaker 17: I'm a prophet, and then you write a book and
[2:09:00] Speaker 17: then people want to believe you.
[2:09:02] Speaker 12: That's on them, you know.
[2:09:04] Speaker 1: But Jason, it sounds like you don't actually have an
[2:09:06] Speaker 1: argument for your God. You just believe from some like
[2:09:08] Speaker 1: God of the Gaps argument, but you don't really know
[2:09:10] Speaker 1: if the God is actually a god. But we're looking
[2:09:13] Speaker 1: for people who do definitively believe in definable deities. And
[2:09:17] Speaker 1: it's okay if you don't. It just means that you're
[2:09:19] Speaker 1: not right for this conversation. And that's okay. You're a
[2:09:21] Speaker 1: lovely individual and we thank you for being here.
[2:09:24] Speaker 12: Appreciate you now before I go, would you not think that?
[2:09:32] Speaker 3: Okay, thanks for being here.
[2:09:34] Speaker 10: Jay.
[2:09:34] Speaker 1: We do need people who have firm opinions, though, we
[2:09:38] Speaker 1: don't want people who want to waffle on the definition
[2:09:40] Speaker 1: of God. Seelah, thank you for the supertest, says I
[2:09:41] Speaker 1: have the biggest.
[2:09:42] Speaker 3: Photo photon juice Albert Einstein. Probably you know that one,
[2:09:49] Speaker 3: he did say, Yeah, absolutely, that's in the books Chess,
[2:09:53] Speaker 3: but fantastic name. Thank you for the super chat. My
[2:09:56] Speaker 3: friend says try or try not? There is only due
[2:09:59] Speaker 3: Einstein probably. Oh god, no, we've opened the door.
[2:10:03] Speaker 2: We've believe we've definitely opened the opened the door for
[2:10:05] Speaker 2: the bit.
[2:10:06] Speaker 3: Oh snip snip.
[2:10:07] Speaker 1: Thank you for the supertest, says have you guys tried
[2:10:09] Speaker 1: poton juice?
[2:10:10] Speaker 7: Abe?
[2:10:11] Speaker 3: Lincoln?
[2:10:12] Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, honest Abe would say something of that nature.
[2:10:14] Speaker 1: That's just that's his thing.
[2:10:16] Speaker 5: You know.
[2:10:16] Speaker 2: Another great quote of a Lincoln is that you should
[2:10:19] Speaker 2: never trust a quote that you read on the internet.
[2:10:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, I believe that one. Jam Nick, thank you
[2:10:24] Speaker 1: for the supertest says how to annoy four fandoms at once?
[2:10:28] Speaker 1: Post a picture of Patrick Stewart saying use the force,
[2:10:31] Speaker 1: Harry and quote Gandalf.
[2:10:38] Speaker 2: I mean, like, honestly, I would fall for the rage bait.
[2:10:41] Speaker 7: Indeed, I would like are we over a thousand?
[2:10:45] Speaker 5: And Yeah?
[2:10:46] Speaker 1: We cracked one thousand.
[2:10:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, we're about We're at about a thousand on YouTube,
[2:10:49] Speaker 2: so grats guys live.
[2:10:52] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[2:10:52] Speaker 2: By the way, hold on, So if I'm reading this correctly,
[2:10:56] Speaker 2: there are two hundred and eighty one likes on the
[2:10:58] Speaker 2: YouTube live stream and there's a thousand people watching. What
[2:11:02] Speaker 2: are you guys doing?
[2:11:04] Speaker 8: What?
[2:11:05] Speaker 2: What are you doing.
[2:11:06] Speaker 1: Cruisiprise just button.
[2:11:09] Speaker 2: Thank you so much for being here though, Damn that
[2:11:11] Speaker 2: subscribe button straight to hell.
[2:11:13] Speaker 1: That's right, absolutely, Pitchforks and all Carnage. Great to see
[2:11:17] Speaker 1: you this morning. Thank you so much for the nine nine.
[2:11:20] Speaker 1: Our super chest says, I know everything there is to
[2:11:23] Speaker 1: know about Bill Gates, Microsoft the app.
[2:11:27] Speaker 2: What at this point, I don't even understand it.
[2:11:30] Speaker 1: That's actually a quote from Microsoft Lore. That's Bob. Bob
[2:11:34] Speaker 1: made that quote. And if you don't know about Microsoft, Bob,
[2:11:37] Speaker 1: we've got to talk about the history of Microsoft.
[2:11:40] Speaker 2: So look, all I know about Microsoft is Clippy.
[2:11:43] Speaker 1: Oh before Clippy, was Bob.
[2:11:46] Speaker 2: This is before Clippy?
[2:11:47] Speaker 1: Okay, before Clippy. Yes, yes, we're gonna go deep at
[2:11:50] Speaker 1: Microsoft Lore.
[2:11:51] Speaker 2: Thank you for that.
[2:11:52] Speaker 1: Carnage's great to see you, and Dalton the Bible Guy,
[2:11:55] Speaker 1: great to see you as well. Thank you for the
[2:11:56] Speaker 1: super Chest says what we need to assemble I'm sorry,
[2:12:00] Speaker 1: what we need is to assemble a roundtable of all
[2:12:03] Speaker 1: the best atheist TikTok creators, the justin League.
[2:12:06] Speaker 3: Well, certainly I wouldn't name it after me.
[2:12:09] Speaker 2: Really funny it is, I understand the words with it.
[2:12:12] Speaker 7: I'm fine with it.
[2:12:13] Speaker 2: It's pretty good. It's pretty good.
[2:12:16] Speaker 1: I could appreciate that. Thank you, Dot, it's great to
[2:12:18] Speaker 1: see you as well.
[2:12:19] Speaker 3: I've read.
[2:12:20] Speaker 1: All right, let's get our next guest in here. It's
[2:12:23] Speaker 1: gonna be Mikayla, and then s ovl after Mikayla, and
[2:12:27] Speaker 1: then probably nope after that loom in Mikayla.
[2:12:34] Speaker 18: Oh, I am listening. I realized that I might not
[2:12:39] Speaker 18: be right for this conversation, but I did want to
[2:12:42] Speaker 18: see how long it would take me to get up here.
[2:12:45] Speaker 7: Interesting.
[2:12:45] Speaker 1: Well, we'll start with the basic questions. Are you at
[2:12:48] Speaker 1: least eighteen? And do you believe in God?
[2:12:51] Speaker 18: I'm twenty seven, and I do believe in God, but
[2:12:54] Speaker 18: I look at it as a title, and even though
[2:12:58] Speaker 18: I have no one to give that title to, I
[2:13:00] Speaker 18: do hope that I find someone worthy of it someday.
[2:13:06] Speaker 7: Okay, you believe in God but you don't know who
[2:13:07] Speaker 7: it is?
[2:13:08] Speaker 9: Yeah, definitely.
[2:13:10] Speaker 18: Oh, I just haven't, like you know, experience.
[2:13:15] Speaker 2: So are you saying it's something like you believe in
[2:13:18] Speaker 2: the idea, you believe in like or you believe in
[2:13:21] Speaker 2: and hope for like a just king to take the throne.
[2:13:25] Speaker 2: But no, but no such just king has taken the throne.
[2:13:28] Speaker 18: Yet Yeah, there's just like you know, in human nature,
[2:13:32] Speaker 18: I don't see that being possible. But I do love
[2:13:36] Speaker 18: the title, and I just hope that there is someone
[2:13:40] Speaker 18: who will take it responsibly. But you know, in my experience,
[2:13:45] Speaker 18: it can be taken away just as quickly as it
[2:13:47] Speaker 18: can be given.
[2:13:49] Speaker 7: Yeah, the Headmaster at Hogwarts is also a title, right
[2:13:52] Speaker 7: are you? Do you look at God and that the
[2:13:54] Speaker 7: Headmaster at Hogwarts similarly.
[2:13:56] Speaker 4: Or no, uh no, I don't.
[2:14:00] Speaker 18: I'm not super familiar with Like I've only seen the
[2:14:03] Speaker 18: movies and I can't reference, you know, all of the
[2:14:08] Speaker 18: things that he did.
[2:14:09] Speaker 8: But I do see you know, what did you say
[2:14:11] Speaker 8: the what of Hogwarts head Master?
[2:14:15] Speaker 18: The head Master of Hogwarts is a title. Yes, God
[2:14:19] Speaker 18: is also a title, So there's that similarity. But someone
[2:14:24] Speaker 18: gave the Master, or someone gave the Master of Hogwarts
[2:14:28] Speaker 18: that title, and people often give God the title to
[2:14:34] Speaker 18: a lot of people that you know, didn't live up
[2:14:37] Speaker 18: to the expectation in my opinion, So in my opinion,
[2:14:41] Speaker 18: I kind of took that title away.
[2:14:43] Speaker 7: So I'm just wondering, like, so one we'd agree that
[2:14:48] Speaker 7: the head Master of Hogwarts that no one has that title,
[2:14:52] Speaker 7: But I'm wondering why you don't think the same thing
[2:14:54] Speaker 7: about God?
[2:14:55] Speaker 19: Why?
[2:14:55] Speaker 7: Why how are you ruling out that no one has
[2:14:57] Speaker 7: that title?
[2:14:59] Speaker 8: I just have given it to anyone.
[2:15:02] Speaker 7: Could Could you give it to Justin or something like?
[2:15:05] Speaker 8: Is that like Justin is the guy above you?
[2:15:09] Speaker 7: Yeah? Or next to me?
[2:15:10] Speaker 6: Yeah?
[2:15:11] Speaker 9: Yet I think I think.
[2:15:14] Speaker 18: That if Justin taught me something profound, I could be like,
[2:15:20] Speaker 18: you know, that's godlike. But at some point I think
[2:15:25] Speaker 18: that that would end if like they're not if there
[2:15:29] Speaker 18: was a disagreement, But if he did something that I
[2:15:32] Speaker 18: didn't or align with, I would then, you know, not
[2:15:34] Speaker 18: give him that title anymore. But I don't mind giving
[2:15:38] Speaker 18: the title to people who, you know, I feel, respect
[2:15:43] Speaker 18: me and want to teach me things that are significant.
[2:15:48] Speaker 18: But I think that respectfully I would give them more
[2:15:51] Speaker 18: the title of like something else, especially if they don't
[2:15:54] Speaker 18: align with my beliefs, I would then title them something
[2:15:57] Speaker 18: that they align with, such as I'm just.
[2:16:00] Speaker 7: Trying to figure out even if we even disagree, because
[2:16:04] Speaker 7: I'm fine to say that God is a title, although
[2:16:06] Speaker 7: it looks more like a name.
[2:16:08] Speaker 4: Right.
[2:16:08] Speaker 7: Usually with titles like when you say I talked to
[2:16:12] Speaker 7: the president. Right, with titles you put the article. Right,
[2:16:15] Speaker 7: I talked to the king, I talked to the senator.
[2:16:18] Speaker 7: Titles have articles, but names don't have articles. I talked
[2:16:22] Speaker 7: to Justin. We don't say I talked to the Justin
[2:16:25] Speaker 7: last night. Right, We don't. In the same way, we
[2:16:28] Speaker 7: don't say I talked to the God last night. Christians, Muslims,
[2:16:32] Speaker 7: and Jews don't say that. They say I talked to
[2:16:34] Speaker 7: God last night, or I prayed to God last night,
[2:16:36] Speaker 7: I requested something of God last night. Usually we treat
[2:16:38] Speaker 7: the name the term God as a name. I don't
[2:16:41] Speaker 7: really look at it as a title. But even if
[2:16:43] Speaker 7: it were a title, I mean, you don't pick out
[2:16:47] Speaker 7: anything and say, hey, that that thing is God. We
[2:16:50] Speaker 7: don't either, And it's just hard to see where we disagree.
[2:16:57] Speaker 8: Can you?
[2:16:58] Speaker 18: So you want to know if I disagree with you.
[2:17:02] Speaker 1: I think you might not Actually you might actually agree
[2:17:04] Speaker 1: with this.
[2:17:05] Speaker 8: Yeah, I do.
[2:17:06] Speaker 18: I'm very open to like being like being questioned or
[2:17:11] Speaker 18: having my mind changed. I have been on a lot
[2:17:14] Speaker 18: of atheist panels, and I like them. I do enjoy
[2:17:17] Speaker 18: learning about what they have to say. Like some of
[2:17:19] Speaker 18: them are like very knowledgeable on things that I have
[2:17:22] Speaker 18: no concept of, and I enjoyed that aspect, but like,
[2:17:26] Speaker 18: my use of language comes from personal experience, and I'm
[2:17:33] Speaker 18: aware that not everyone will have that kind of experience,
[2:17:36] Speaker 18: so I try to respect their their use of language
[2:17:38] Speaker 18: in the sense like I don't like the word God.
[2:17:41] Speaker 18: I'm like, Okay, what do you want to call it?
[2:17:43] Speaker 18: You can call it whatever you want, and then I adjust.
[2:17:46] Speaker 2: Sure, But look, MICHAELA, we are interested in talking to
[2:17:50] Speaker 2: people who believe that God exists, rather than believe that
[2:17:56] Speaker 2: it's a title that nope, that nothing is currently holding.
[2:18:00] Speaker 18: Yeah, I started sorry, what were you saying?
[2:18:03] Speaker 2: Well, now you're fine, go ahead.
[2:18:05] Speaker 18: I started saying that, like, I might not be right
[2:18:08] Speaker 18: for this, but I was excited to see how long
[2:18:11] Speaker 18: it would take me to get up here, and you know,
[2:18:12] Speaker 18: you've allowed me to be up here longer than I anticipated,
[2:18:15] Speaker 18: and I appreciated that as well.
[2:18:17] Speaker 1: Well, you're also being kind and polite, which we.
[2:18:20] Speaker 2: Love, indeed, but we are going to let you go. Okay,
[2:18:24] Speaker 2: we are going to let you go because you're right.
[2:18:26] Speaker 2: You aren't right for this, but we appreciate you being here.
[2:18:29] Speaker 1: Either way, You're a lovely individual and we enjoy good people.
[2:18:34] Speaker 1: I think next was nope or s O V L.
[2:18:37] Speaker 1: I forget which one I said, but we're go grab
[2:18:39] Speaker 1: Nope next Colin, thank you so much for the final
[2:18:41] Speaker 1: ur Supertest says RFK announces pregnant women to drink vote
[2:18:45] Speaker 1: proton juice. We got photon juice and proton juice. Now,
[2:18:50] Speaker 1: I don't know which one I want to choose, whichever
[2:18:52] Speaker 1: one won't give me autism.
[2:18:56] Speaker 2: You're allowed to make that joke. By the way, it
[2:18:59] Speaker 2: is accurate.
[2:19:00] Speaker 1: Thank you Discordant Rhyme for the six ninety nine. I
[2:19:04] Speaker 1: appreciate that worst quote attributed to Einstein. Evil is the
[2:19:08] Speaker 1: result of what happens when man does not have God's
[2:19:10] Speaker 1: love present in his heart.
[2:19:12] Speaker 3: Delusional trash. Someone said Einstein said that. That's insane.
[2:19:16] Speaker 2: People literally, people say Einstein says anything, and because Einstein
[2:19:21] Speaker 2: is synonymous with genius, it just they use it as
[2:19:24] Speaker 2: a way of reinforcing a belief that they have. They're like, well,
[2:19:27] Speaker 2: I can't be wrong. Einstein said it, and that guy
[2:19:30] Speaker 2: his name means really smart.
[2:19:32] Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, exactly, and there's no way to diverify it.
[2:19:36] Speaker 1: You must believe it.
[2:19:36] Speaker 3: Test.
[2:19:37] Speaker 1: Thank you for the super chat.
[2:19:38] Speaker 3: My friend says this, that's one small step for man
[2:19:42] Speaker 3: in one giant leap for photon juice. Oh no, now
[2:19:49] Speaker 3: we've got space mixing with false Einstein quotes. Thank you
[2:19:52] Speaker 3: for that test. Thank you, Lieber the Skeptic.
[2:19:55] Speaker 1: Great to see you this morn and thank you for
[2:19:57] Speaker 1: the ten hour supertest says I never said that shit.
[2:20:00] Speaker 1: Confucius maybe, page she got citations, page three ninety four.
[2:20:05] Speaker 1: Einstein maybe that one time at band camp. Also Einstein maybe,
[2:20:11] Speaker 1: and meh, good enough. Mediocrates and Christians definitely.
[2:20:17] Speaker 3: That is a real quote.
[2:20:18] Speaker 1: That is a real quote. Although I would I would
[2:20:21] Speaker 1: mix Mediocrates and Christians into the same classification.
[2:20:25] Speaker 3: Thank you for that, though, Judas my friend.
[2:20:27] Speaker 1: Thank you for the additional superjest says, my name is
[2:20:29] Speaker 1: Grandmaster Jesus, you killed my father, prepared to die and
[2:20:33] Speaker 1: against skywalk. Oh no, it's gonna be it fakes quotes
[2:20:38] Speaker 1: all the way down. It's turtles all the way down
[2:20:39] Speaker 1: to fake.
[2:20:39] Speaker 2: Quote the way. It's the whole way.
[2:20:42] Speaker 3: Good question.
[2:20:43] Speaker 7: Great to see you.
[2:20:44] Speaker 1: Thank you for the superchest. It says, is Israel purely
[2:20:46] Speaker 1: Canaanite tribe or a mix of Canaanite and other tribes. Well,
[2:20:51] Speaker 1: the eldest Israel we know of appears to have come
[2:20:54] Speaker 1: from Canaanite origin, but I also think it's a mixture
[2:20:57] Speaker 1: of nomadic tribes typically referred to as not Hebrews, the Apiru.
[2:21:04] Speaker 1: The opirru is a kind of a generic name for nomadic,
[2:21:08] Speaker 1: non tribal people that assimilated in the culture. One of
[2:21:11] Speaker 1: the oldest references is of this. You can find in
[2:21:13] Speaker 1: the writings of King Idramy of a la Lach. He
[2:21:17] Speaker 1: started a kingdom based on these nomadic individuals that didn't
[2:21:22] Speaker 1: really have a definitive tribe. He literally went rounded all
[2:21:27] Speaker 1: these people up, made his own makeshift tribe, and then
[2:21:32] Speaker 1: started waging war up near Hatusa and some of the
[2:21:35] Speaker 1: other Hittite kingdoms until he made his own kingdom. And
[2:21:39] Speaker 1: we have some of his writings that tell about the story.
[2:21:42] Speaker 3: It's awesome. You can probably get it on archive dot org.
[2:21:45] Speaker 1: It was published. The tablets were published in nineteen fifty four,
[2:21:48] Speaker 1: I believe, so it's probably pretty close to.
[2:21:51] Speaker 3: Being in the open domain. If not, I've got copies
[2:21:53] Speaker 3: of them.
[2:21:54] Speaker 1: I'm a bookshelf.
[2:21:55] Speaker 3: I can help you out.
[2:21:56] Speaker 1: Libra the Skeptic, thank you for the five dollar super
[2:21:58] Speaker 1: chest says yesterday begins tomorrow or some such bullshit. Some
[2:22:02] Speaker 1: fil Bros. Somewhere, words don't mean words consider all Christians everywhere,
[2:22:08] Speaker 1: and that is a factual quote. If I know one
[2:22:10] Speaker 1: thing about Christians, one thing only, and that says words
[2:22:15] Speaker 1: have no meaning none flash. Thank you for the supertest,
[2:22:19] Speaker 1: says I'm loving this trio. I love Danny, but Danny's
[2:22:21] Speaker 1: energy today is my favorite by far. More of this trio,
[2:22:25] Speaker 1: More of this Danny, love you all, and listen, we
[2:22:29] Speaker 1: love the people. We give the people what they want.
[2:22:31] Speaker 1: We'll have Danny back as often as we are able.
[2:22:34] Speaker 5: To do so.
[2:22:35] Speaker 2: Danny, you hear that people want you to be nice.
[2:22:38] Speaker 7: Well, I don't think there's been anyone that deserves to
[2:22:41] Speaker 7: be verbally exactly.
[2:22:43] Speaker 2: Yeah, like I was gonna say, like you haven't, Like
[2:22:46] Speaker 2: nobody's been stupid enough that they deserve your rage.
[2:22:49] Speaker 7: Right, They're no vessels of.
[2:22:50] Speaker 3: Wrath yet not yet?
[2:22:53] Speaker 1: Nope, welcome in. Nope. You've got a lot of background noise.
[2:22:56] Speaker 1: Do you have a fan or something going?
[2:22:59] Speaker 10: Oh, yeah, my bad, sorry about that.
[2:23:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, there, that's a lot better. Yet Nope. Are you
[2:23:06] Speaker 1: at least eighteen? And do you believe in.
[2:23:09] Speaker 3: Uh some sort of god concept?
[2:23:13] Speaker 10: Yes, I'm old and I believe in God. I specifically,
[2:23:16] Speaker 10: I believe in El el Yan, the most high God
[2:23:19] Speaker 10: of the Bible.
[2:23:21] Speaker 1: Okay, do you believe that El yah and Yahweh are
[2:23:24] Speaker 1: the same individual?
[2:23:26] Speaker 10: I do not, absolutely do not.
[2:23:28] Speaker 5: Okay.
[2:23:29] Speaker 1: So are you heno theistic or polytheistic?
[2:23:34] Speaker 8: Uh?
[2:23:35] Speaker 10: In a way, I'm polytheistic because I believe in the
[2:23:38] Speaker 10: Divine Council.
[2:23:40] Speaker 2: Okay.
[2:23:41] Speaker 1: So you you believe in multiple gods, and that's fine.
[2:23:47] Speaker 1: What are you doing with the passages that state that
[2:23:49] Speaker 1: Yahweh is El el Yhon like psalmighty three?
[2:23:54] Speaker 16: Uh?
[2:23:55] Speaker 10: I I ignore him, honestly, That's how I deal with them,
[2:23:59] Speaker 10: just a Okay.
[2:24:01] Speaker 1: So with that out of the way, what would be
[2:24:03] Speaker 1: a good argument or a good piece of evidence for
[2:24:06] Speaker 1: the existence of this particular polytheistic worldview?
[2:24:11] Speaker 10: So that's my main thing here. I watch you guys
[2:24:14] Speaker 10: do this, and I've seen other atheists do too, and
[2:24:16] Speaker 10: I understand the whole point of deconstructing dogmas. I completely
[2:24:21] Speaker 10: agree with it and believe it. But at the same time,
[2:24:23] Speaker 10: it's like I have my own dogmas that I I
[2:24:26] Speaker 10: personally through my beliefs, as you guys would call them,
[2:24:29] Speaker 10: not be able to deconstruct because of personal experience, But
[2:24:34] Speaker 10: I read the Bible, and I don't read the word
[2:24:36] Speaker 10: of God. I read the word of decided upon scriptures
[2:24:40] Speaker 10: throughout time, going back to Josiah.
[2:24:44] Speaker 2: Nope. So no, and I may I may differ from
[2:24:47] Speaker 2: the rest of the panel in this regard, but I
[2:24:49] Speaker 2: generally think that if somebody has a powerful, sufficiently powerful,
[2:24:52] Speaker 2: and sufficiently compelling personal experiences, it might be rational for
[2:24:55] Speaker 2: them to believe in a God, right. I mean, like,
[2:24:57] Speaker 2: the only thing that you can really trust at the
[2:24:59] Speaker 2: end of the day day is what you experience, what
[2:25:01] Speaker 2: you read, what you see, what you hear. And if
[2:25:03] Speaker 2: you see or hear something that you think is like
[2:25:06] Speaker 2: genuinely like real, and that's going to be pretty compelling.
[2:25:09] Speaker 2: The thing is is it's not going to be compelling
[2:25:10] Speaker 2: to anyone else, right, correct. It's like when somebody else
[2:25:14] Speaker 2: tells you about their dream like just nobody cares. Nobody
[2:25:16] Speaker 2: ever cares about your dreams. So in light of that,
[2:25:20] Speaker 2: if you want to come up here and say, well,
[2:25:22] Speaker 2: the reason you believe in God is because of a
[2:25:23] Speaker 2: personal experience, that's great, I guess, But like, what are
[2:25:27] Speaker 2: we supposed to do with that?
[2:25:28] Speaker 7: And I want to add to that If that's okay,
[2:25:30] Speaker 7: if we were supposed to believe other people's testimonies, right,
[2:25:34] Speaker 7: they would well, or if you were to take them
[2:25:36] Speaker 7: on Facebook, they will all defeat each other, right because
[2:25:40] Speaker 7: they all say right.
[2:25:41] Speaker 12: So that's different things, right.
[2:25:44] Speaker 10: I understand that I'm not asking anybody to ever take
[2:25:47] Speaker 10: my experiences at firsthand. That's crazy, right, That'd be like me,
[2:25:53] Speaker 10: I wouldn't trust myself if I heard me so.
[2:25:57] Speaker 2: Then why so why should it so? I mean, the
[2:25:59] Speaker 2: question is what's what's what's the evidence? What's the argument
[2:26:02] Speaker 2: that you could present us that might be compelling to us.
[2:26:05] Speaker 10: My argument is similar to what other people have already
[2:26:07] Speaker 10: brought up, and you guys have torn apart already. Oh,
[2:26:12] Speaker 10: very wonderfully, by the way, But I just want to
[2:26:14] Speaker 10: say my argument is what don't we know, Like, how
[2:26:19] Speaker 10: do we understand that this is fake? What's the evidence
[2:26:23] Speaker 10: to prove that it's fake? Versus what's the evidence to
[2:26:27] Speaker 10: prove that it's real?
[2:26:29] Speaker 2: So the the issue is that the first thing that
[2:26:32] Speaker 2: we have to talk about is we have to talk
[2:26:33] Speaker 2: about what it is we're trying to talk about what
[2:26:35] Speaker 2: it is we're trying to prove is real or fake.
[2:26:37] Speaker 2: So if there's a view if there's a particular position
[2:26:40] Speaker 2: that you hold, then we can talk about the evidence
[2:26:42] Speaker 2: for and the evidence against it. Like, for example, if
[2:26:44] Speaker 2: your view is, you know, el Leone is like a
[2:26:46] Speaker 2: real divine being and that there's a divine council, we
[2:26:48] Speaker 2: can talk about the evidence for that, the evidence against that,
[2:26:50] Speaker 2: and then we can establish what's the most likely uh
[2:26:54] Speaker 2: explanation for those piece of data. However, if the claim
[2:26:57] Speaker 2: is just well, there's a lot of things that we
[2:26:59] Speaker 2: don't know, how do we know that there's not a god?
[2:27:02] Speaker 2: Unless you can define what you mean by there being
[2:27:04] Speaker 2: a god, it's just a non starter, right, Like we
[2:27:08] Speaker 2: need we need something to latch onto to be able
[2:27:10] Speaker 2: to talk about the evidence for and the evidence against.
[2:27:12] Speaker 2: Otherwise you're just saying, I mean it's well, what if
[2:27:13] Speaker 2: there's a blumbus? And I'm like, okay, I don't know
[2:27:16] Speaker 2: what a blumbus.
[2:27:16] Speaker 10: Is, but I didn't I did stay el el Yon.
[2:27:20] Speaker 5: So right.
[2:27:23] Speaker 2: Then this has nothing to do with well, what what
[2:27:25] Speaker 2: do we know? What do we don't know? What do
[2:27:27] Speaker 2: we not know? This is a very specific claim, so
[2:27:30] Speaker 2: we need to talk about what's the evidence for the claim,
[2:27:31] Speaker 2: what's the evidence against the claim? Now you believe in
[2:27:33] Speaker 2: el Leon. The question is is what properties does do
[2:27:36] Speaker 2: you view that this being has? Is it omniscient, is
[2:27:39] Speaker 2: it all powerful? Did it create the universe from nothing?
[2:27:42] Speaker 2: Or did it create the universe from unformed stuff. There's
[2:27:44] Speaker 2: a whole bunch of questions that we need to know,
[2:27:46] Speaker 2: we need to understand before we can even engage with
[2:27:48] Speaker 2: your belief.
[2:27:50] Speaker 10: So to engage that belief, I do not accept most
[2:27:55] Speaker 10: of the the post Exilic texts, or during the Exile
[2:28:01] Speaker 10: text I don't.
[2:28:02] Speaker 2: Believe what property is to you believe that this being has.
[2:28:06] Speaker 10: Uh just the basic properties of the Tabernacle, or not
[2:28:11] Speaker 10: the Tabernacle, but the Sabbath. The basic idea is that
[2:28:15] Speaker 10: he somehow was involved with the creation of our process,
[2:28:19] Speaker 10: whether that be through civilization or through the beginning of
[2:28:23] Speaker 10: what would be considered evolution at this point in time.
[2:28:27] Speaker 2: Would you say that this being is physical or is
[2:28:30] Speaker 2: it more like some something outside of the universe physical? Okay,
[2:28:35] Speaker 2: so you think that this is a physical entity. Was
[2:28:37] Speaker 2: it born?
[2:28:38] Speaker 10: Well, yeah, I imagine it was born. So I don't
[2:28:42] Speaker 10: I don't see anywhere in the Bible or it doesn't
[2:28:44] Speaker 10: say he's not physical. The Bible on saying he has
[2:28:47] Speaker 10: a physical body.
[2:28:48] Speaker 2: Right right, right, So that so if you ask the
[2:28:50] Speaker 2: ancient Hebrews, they probably would have told you that he
[2:28:52] Speaker 2: lives on a throne in the sky.
[2:28:53] Speaker 5: Right.
[2:28:56] Speaker 10: That's definitely depending what time you ask him.
[2:28:58] Speaker 2: That that's definitely consistent with like ancient view. But then
[2:29:00] Speaker 2: it just sounds like you're describing like a very powerful
[2:29:03] Speaker 2: alien and none of us are going to say that
[2:29:06] Speaker 2: that's impossible. Okay, but like what's like what would be
[2:29:12] Speaker 2: the difference between what you'd describe as Ella Leone and
[2:29:15] Speaker 2: like just like a super powerful alien that visited us
[2:29:17] Speaker 2: five thousand years ago and has been like meddling. Uh nothing, Okay,
[2:29:25] Speaker 2: Then it sounds like your view is compatible with atheism.
[2:29:28] Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm make them to atheism, bud.
[2:29:31] Speaker 10: Well, I wouldn't call it atheist because I attribute most
[2:29:34] Speaker 10: of it to uh, since I have converted, Because I
[2:29:38] Speaker 10: have converted due to personal experiences. I have never been
[2:29:41] Speaker 10: into a church or nothing like that. I wasn't raised,
[2:29:44] Speaker 10: my whole family doesn't believe none of that stuff.
[2:29:46] Speaker 3: Uh.
[2:29:48] Speaker 10: My life has irrevocably changed for the better, each step
[2:29:54] Speaker 10: based off a certain text.
[2:29:56] Speaker 5: Like if I.
[2:29:58] Speaker 10: Were to turn over into Psalms, which I don't necessarily follow,
[2:30:02] Speaker 10: but if it's a good text, like anybody should fallow,
[2:30:04] Speaker 10: if they see something that's good morally, then follow it
[2:30:07] Speaker 10: and you become a good moral person. Right. I had
[2:30:09] Speaker 10: never had that direction of my life until I converted.
[2:30:12] Speaker 10: And every time I attribute or give thanks to the
[2:30:15] Speaker 10: Most High, it's almost like I have that experience that
[2:30:19] Speaker 10: I have been a revelation, almost like a.
[2:30:24] Speaker 2: But nope, that's that's somewhat akin to beings to me
[2:30:27] Speaker 2: saying like, oh, I give thanks to you know, the
[2:30:32] Speaker 2: the rich No, not even like the rich merchant who
[2:30:35] Speaker 2: who I give thanks to the rich merchant who bought
[2:30:38] Speaker 2: my great great great grandfather's cow for a thousand rupees
[2:30:45] Speaker 2: or I don't know, rubles or whatever, and because that
[2:30:48] Speaker 2: made my life, Like you're just giving thanks to a dude,
[2:30:52] Speaker 2: like not a not a divine being. So it just
[2:30:54] Speaker 2: doesn't It just seems like you're being which is perhaps reasonable,
[2:30:58] Speaker 2: like giving thanks to it something that happen into the past,
[2:31:00] Speaker 2: or being grateful for something that happened in the past
[2:31:02] Speaker 2: is perhaps reasonable, But it just doesn't seem like it
[2:31:05] Speaker 2: has anything to do with the belief in a god.
[2:31:09] Speaker 10: But l is the word for God. Right, it's his name.
[2:31:14] Speaker 10: So when you say God, that's all I hear. I
[2:31:16] Speaker 10: don't hear a title. I hear the name.
[2:31:18] Speaker 2: Like, when you say God, you don't mean that. You
[2:31:21] Speaker 2: don't mean necessarily a divine being. You mean like a
[2:31:24] Speaker 2: guy who was like really powerful.
[2:31:27] Speaker 10: Back then, Will would be divine to Comparatively speaking, you know, I.
[2:31:33] Speaker 2: Mean, divine traditionally means like supernatural and things like this, right,
[2:31:40] Speaker 2: has a bunch of stuff attached to it. But if
[2:31:42] Speaker 2: we're just talking about so we're already talking about like
[2:31:45] Speaker 2: a dude with like powers, then it just seems like
[2:31:52] Speaker 2: we're not talking about I mean, like, look, it just
[2:31:53] Speaker 2: seems like we're talking past each other as far as
[2:31:55] Speaker 2: definitions go, as far as the three of us are concerned,
[2:31:57] Speaker 2: you're not talking about a god. You're just talking about
[2:32:00] Speaker 2: a dude.
[2:32:03] Speaker 10: That makes sense. I could be talking about it, dude,
[2:32:06] Speaker 10: who knows. I don't. I just still have that that
[2:32:11] Speaker 10: feeling and that belief that.
[2:32:15] Speaker 4: That it's there.
[2:32:16] Speaker 10: It's the reason for some reason, whether it started our
[2:32:19] Speaker 10: civilisation or not. We could have been apes until he
[2:32:22] Speaker 10: came around, for all I know.
[2:32:24] Speaker 2: Okay, but that's consistent with atheism. So I don't think
[2:32:28] Speaker 2: that there's a whole lot to talk about here, and
[2:32:31] Speaker 2: justin Danny, you guys want to.
[2:32:33] Speaker 3: I don't think so.
[2:32:34] Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds it sounds like you you don't
[2:32:36] Speaker 1: really believe in the God the same way we're using
[2:32:39] Speaker 1: the word God. You have a different conception of how
[2:32:41] Speaker 1: the word itself is defined. And I just don't think
[2:32:44] Speaker 1: we're talking about the same thing.
[2:32:45] Speaker 10: You know, Yeah, that makes sense.
[2:32:49] Speaker 3: But we appreciate you coming up.
[2:32:50] Speaker 1: It was good to hear your review.
[2:32:51] Speaker 8: I was.
[2:32:52] Speaker 3: I was intrigued that we found someone who liked the
[2:32:55] Speaker 3: el Yon pantheistic concept.
[2:32:59] Speaker 1: Sou buddy, have a great one.
[2:33:02] Speaker 5: Thank you.
[2:33:03] Speaker 10: Thank you guys for your ton.
[2:33:06] Speaker 3: That's certainly new and interesting.
[2:33:07] Speaker 1: We don't get that too often. Let me grab our
[2:33:09] Speaker 1: super test and I'm gonna get Jeremiah from the Q next.
[2:33:12] Speaker 1: Jeremiah has been waiting for or s Ovl's in the Q.
[2:33:14] Speaker 1: Apologies in Jeremiah Edward, thank you so much for the
[2:33:18] Speaker 1: ten or supertest. Good to see my friend says, forgive me, Sharon,
[2:33:21] Speaker 1: for I have been naughty. A stone cracked in half
[2:33:24] Speaker 1: when I walked on it. Please don't let the anti
[2:33:28] Speaker 1: Doug take me on the day of spanking in Doug's name,
[2:33:31] Speaker 1: we say crust men, Well, don't worry, Edward of the
[2:33:34] Speaker 1: prophet Doug. I can tell you that rocks are designed
[2:33:39] Speaker 1: for multiple multiplication. You can, in fact, one of the
[2:33:42] Speaker 1: children of the quadrinity is in fact pebbles. Pebbles is
[2:33:48] Speaker 1: a collection not as singular, which means a credentity is
[2:33:51] Speaker 1: actually infinite. Every time you break a rock, you're adding
[2:33:54] Speaker 1: to the quadrinity. So no worries Doug. Doug's not concerned
[2:33:57] Speaker 1: at all. And Patch Grabber, thank you so much for
[2:34:00] Speaker 1: the five dollars. Super Check says, if the gods had
[2:34:03] Speaker 1: a royal rumble to decide who gets a shot at
[2:34:06] Speaker 1: the title, which do you think would win? It's hard
[2:34:09] Speaker 1: to say because Elle in the in the Ugurtic pantheon
[2:34:13] Speaker 1: was kind of an old man with a gray beard,
[2:34:15] Speaker 1: kind of a waste. He would get like passed out drunk,
[2:34:18] Speaker 1: and people would make fun of.
[2:34:19] Speaker 2: Cat's quadal Right, could be Cat Flying Bird Dragon like
[2:34:25] Speaker 2: just just seems like it just seems like it wins.
[2:34:29] Speaker 3: Certainly, certainly could be.
[2:34:31] Speaker 1: And if we're talking about who's getting spanked, I could
[2:34:35] Speaker 1: only assume that Spanky's doing the spank and giving the name.
[2:34:39] Speaker 2: But I mean, look, there is some evidence that that
[2:34:42] Speaker 2: Odin is a Odin would at least be a strong
[2:34:46] Speaker 2: contender because there are no Frost giants left and you
[2:34:50] Speaker 2: know Odin got rid of them, so it's true. That
[2:34:54] Speaker 2: is true.
[2:34:55] Speaker 1: We could definitely go with Odin. Well to discuss this later.
[2:34:58] Speaker 1: M D thank you for the super says, I didn't
[2:35:01] Speaker 1: do it. Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove
[2:35:03] Speaker 1: anything God. That is the one hundred percent of valid
[2:35:08] Speaker 1: quote from God. And good question says debate title isral
[2:35:11] Speaker 1: started to one hundred percent polytheistic?
[2:35:13] Speaker 3: What do you think?
[2:35:14] Speaker 1: Well, my friend Chet actually engages in this particular dialogue
[2:35:17] Speaker 1: from time to time. I don't know if I care
[2:35:20] Speaker 1: so much about that debate topic because I feel like
[2:35:23] Speaker 1: at that point, like you don't have enough people that
[2:35:26] Speaker 1: care about the topic to do a full on debate
[2:35:28] Speaker 1: about it. But we could certainly mix it in as
[2:35:29] Speaker 1: like a mini debate topic during the live streams, because
[2:35:32] Speaker 1: it is true all of our evidence points towards polytheistic.
[2:35:35] Speaker 1: But the reality is the Bible tells you that they
[2:35:37] Speaker 1: were polytheistic. So I don't know what's there to argue. Nadie,
[2:35:42] Speaker 1: thank you for the Superjest says, rolling down the streets,
[2:35:46] Speaker 1: I can't say it because it's TikTok essen Indo, sipping
[2:35:50] Speaker 1: on photon juice, laid back. That's a good song. With
[2:35:54] Speaker 1: my mind on my money and my money on my mind,
[2:35:56] Speaker 1: I can definitely get down with that. Appreciate the new
[2:35:59] Speaker 1: rap lyric and Dalton coming back again with another spicy
[2:36:03] Speaker 1: Einstein quote says, relatively relativity, one minute in bed can
[2:36:07] Speaker 1: feel like an hour depending on who you're with.
[2:36:09] Speaker 3: Spicy.
[2:36:13] Speaker 1: He definitely said that.
[2:36:14] Speaker 2: It's it's true. He wrote it in his h in
[2:36:18] Speaker 2: his equals SIMC squared paper.
[2:36:20] Speaker 3: Actually it's in there. It's the lesser known formula.
[2:36:23] Speaker 1: Liebra, thank you for the fight. Our supertest says the
[2:36:26] Speaker 1: greatest danger to society is religious people with power. The
[2:36:29] Speaker 1: greatest danger humanity is religion itself. History is cyclical. Me
[2:36:35] Speaker 1: just now and that is a factual quote. I appreciate that, Matt,
[2:36:39] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the supertest, says I am
[2:36:41] Speaker 1: the one and only photon jew.
[2:36:44] Speaker 2: I mean Albert Einstein did ask what it would be
[2:36:46] Speaker 2: like to ride a photon, So you know that is
[2:36:49] Speaker 2: a that is a real thought that Einstein had.
[2:36:52] Speaker 3: Oh, no, oh no, not about that.
[2:36:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, that was this.
[2:36:56] Speaker 1: That was his whole stick, our last one from our
[2:37:01] Speaker 1: friend neck too great to see your neck too. It says, hey, hey,
[2:37:04] Speaker 1: we're the monkeys. People say we monkey around and that
[2:37:08] Speaker 1: evolutionists think we came from monkeys. Love the Danny edition,
[2:37:11] Speaker 1: by the way, Well thank you. There might be some
[2:37:14] Speaker 1: monkey business about and we do love having Danny with us.
[2:37:17] Speaker 1: A big big shout out, big w to our friend Danny.
[2:37:20] Speaker 1: Let me grab our next in line.
[2:37:22] Speaker 8: S o v L.
[2:37:26] Speaker 1: How you doing s o v ol?
[2:37:29] Speaker 4: Hello?
[2:37:29] Speaker 8: Can you hear me?
[2:37:31] Speaker 2: Sure?
[2:37:31] Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, echo, No, I think we're okay.
[2:37:37] Speaker 1: What would you what would you prefer to be called?
[2:37:39] Speaker 1: Or do you want to be called?
[2:37:40] Speaker 4: S o v L?
[2:37:42] Speaker 8: Actually the v should be an?
[2:37:45] Speaker 2: You chance?
[2:37:50] Speaker 8: Sorry?
[2:37:51] Speaker 2: Are you Eastern Orthodox by chance?
[2:37:53] Speaker 8: No? I am from Nick. I am told that I
[2:37:57] Speaker 8: sound like Middle Eastern, but I am not.
[2:38:01] Speaker 5: Sure.
[2:38:01] Speaker 2: Sure, Oh Danny, we can't hear you.
[2:38:04] Speaker 7: Oh sorry, East Orthodox as in the the sector Christianity,
[2:38:08] Speaker 7: right blitz yeah right, yeah, yeah yeah. So it's a tradition,
[2:38:12] Speaker 7: it's a it's a Christian tradition. It's not an ethnicity
[2:38:16] Speaker 7: or nationality or I know.
[2:38:18] Speaker 8: But when you say Eastern orthodox yours speaking, I think
[2:38:22] Speaker 8: about the Catholic Orthodox shorts right.
[2:38:26] Speaker 7: Right, But there you can be from Nica and you
[2:38:28] Speaker 7: can be from Nicaragua and then be EO East Orthodox.
[2:38:33] Speaker 8: I know, but I think that the the the reason
[2:38:36] Speaker 8: justin mentioned it was because of my accent.
[2:38:39] Speaker 2: Maybe no I mentioned it because using a V instead
[2:38:43] Speaker 2: of a U is quite common amongst crusader crusader alurpers,
[2:38:46] Speaker 2: you know, and they want Eastern stuff.
[2:38:50] Speaker 8: The reason that I used the V is because the
[2:38:52] Speaker 8: U was not available.
[2:38:53] Speaker 2: Oh okay, that's fair. Yeah, So soul, do you believe
[2:38:56] Speaker 2: in God? And which one would that be? Are you Christian? Catholic, Mormon,
[2:39:02] Speaker 2: Islam or Muslim?
[2:39:03] Speaker 4: Okay?
[2:39:04] Speaker 2: Christian?
[2:39:04] Speaker 5: Great?
[2:39:05] Speaker 2: What would you say is the most compelling reason you
[2:39:09] Speaker 2: could offer people like us? Uh? That would you know?
[2:39:12] Speaker 2: At least give us reason to think that there's a God.
[2:39:15] Speaker 8: For me, my friend, it is only the the conversion
[2:39:19] Speaker 8: of Paul, the experienced Paul had, and the and the
[2:39:24] Speaker 8: way Christianity developed from that point on.
[2:39:26] Speaker 20: Word, So you're telling me that because there was a guy,
[2:39:35] Speaker 20: I don't know why he keeps on doing that.
[2:39:38] Speaker 2: Go ahead, No, No, I thought I was filling the silence.
[2:39:41] Speaker 7: Why does he believe that that Jesus was in fact
[2:39:46] Speaker 7: revealed himself to to Paul, why do why do you
[2:39:49] Speaker 7: believe that?
[2:39:51] Speaker 8: Well, on my perspective, my friend, the Bible was given
[2:39:56] Speaker 8: to us as a guide for faith. Taking that into consideration.
[2:40:02] Speaker 8: Paul himself, as described on the Bible, was a guy
[2:40:05] Speaker 8: that thought that Christianity was a blasphem or what's a
[2:40:11] Speaker 8: behavior that got not approved? And he relentlessly pursued people
[2:40:16] Speaker 8: outside Israel. But in the middle of his journey he
[2:40:20] Speaker 8: i Majicius, and then everything is switched one hundred and
[2:40:25] Speaker 8: eighty degrees and he becomes a Christian himself, and he
[2:40:28] Speaker 8: made a name for himself and his fellow apostles.
[2:40:33] Speaker 7: But why do you think Jesus revealed revealing himself?
[2:40:37] Speaker 8: Is the best explanation for that, based on the same descriptions.
[2:40:43] Speaker 8: Because the thing is that at this point I am
[2:40:47] Speaker 8: only using the Bible as the only source of evidence
[2:40:50] Speaker 8: for what Paul did. I do not have anything else. Unlike,
[2:40:53] Speaker 8: for example, the story of Jesus, there are many perspectives
[2:40:56] Speaker 8: on what he was.
[2:40:58] Speaker 7: In other words, let me give you a competing hypothesis. Right,
[2:41:01] Speaker 7: he had a weird experience that was, you know, naturalistically
[2:41:04] Speaker 7: explained or psychologically explained that made him change his ways
[2:41:09] Speaker 7: in his mind? What's wrong with that explanation?
[2:41:13] Speaker 8: The problem with the explanation, my friend, is that if
[2:41:16] Speaker 8: you follow these scriptures, at least from my perspective, if
[2:41:20] Speaker 8: you follow these scriptures, he was not simply a madman
[2:41:25] Speaker 8: yelling to people in the street. He was a man
[2:41:28] Speaker 8: that was able to perform supernatural miracles that served like
[2:41:33] Speaker 8: a backup for what he was preaching.
[2:41:36] Speaker 7: Now you're specifically saying, look, this guy went from killing
[2:41:41] Speaker 7: Christians to like being one, And you want to say,
[2:41:44] Speaker 7: Jesus actually appearing to him supernaturally is the best explanation.
[2:41:48] Speaker 7: And I want to know why should we favor that
[2:41:51] Speaker 7: explanation over the explanation that I gave. And I see
[2:41:53] Speaker 7: no reason to favor one over the other.
[2:41:57] Speaker 8: Yeah, as I said, the only possible way for Paul
[2:42:02] Speaker 8: to have met Jesus, or for paul history about Jesus
[2:42:06] Speaker 8: to be believable, is that he was actually able to
[2:42:09] Speaker 8: prove that he had or he was in contact with
[2:42:14] Speaker 8: the supernatural.
[2:42:15] Speaker 7: That that begs the question, That just begs the question, right,
[2:42:19] Speaker 7: what's wrong with my hypothesis?
[2:42:21] Speaker 8: Your hypothesis as as you said, it is a naturalistic one.
[2:42:26] Speaker 8: It is temple. If I go and tell you, hey,
[2:42:29] Speaker 8: I saw Jesus in a vision, and then you say, hey,
[2:42:32] Speaker 8: prove it to me, And I said, you know.
[2:42:34] Speaker 7: Here's your hypothesis, right, that he did have some kind
[2:42:37] Speaker 7: of experience, that one that's naturalistically explained that disposed him
[2:42:42] Speaker 7: to change his mind?
[2:42:44] Speaker 8: Right?
[2:42:45] Speaker 7: Is that possible? For number one? It is possible. Number two.
[2:42:49] Speaker 7: I don't know why that's less plausible than yours. In fact,
[2:42:52] Speaker 7: it seems more plausible.
[2:42:55] Speaker 8: As I said, what makes it believable is the combination
[2:42:58] Speaker 8: not only of the experience but the testimony itself.
[2:43:03] Speaker 7: I don't get it. Can someone? Do you all understand
[2:43:06] Speaker 7: what he's saying.
[2:43:07] Speaker 2: No, No is the claim that the testimony as it
[2:43:12] Speaker 2: is the claim that the account as described in the
[2:43:14] Speaker 2: Bible says that it was a divine experience, and that
[2:43:19] Speaker 2: gives you sufficient reason to think that it was indeed
[2:43:22] Speaker 2: a divine experience.
[2:43:24] Speaker 8: No, it is the combination. Well, if you if we
[2:43:27] Speaker 8: take the Bible ass face value. If I go to
[2:43:31] Speaker 8: you and then I say, hey, I I met Jesus,
[2:43:34] Speaker 8: and for example, I tell you something that only God
[2:43:39] Speaker 8: will know would you believe that? Will that be sufficient
[2:43:43] Speaker 8: evidence for you? No?
[2:43:47] Speaker 5: Probably not?
[2:43:50] Speaker 1: Okay, So because the Bible says things that are that
[2:43:53] Speaker 1: are not true.
[2:43:55] Speaker 5: Right, So.
[2:43:57] Speaker 2: The whole contention is that we don't take the Bible
[2:43:59] Speaker 2: if its value right, Like, that's like, we don't we
[2:44:02] Speaker 2: don't think that everything that's written there is an accurate
[2:44:05] Speaker 2: accounting of what happened, right.
[2:44:07] Speaker 4: M h.
[2:44:08] Speaker 8: Yeah, you can say that. But there is one thing
[2:44:10] Speaker 8: that actually became true. If you do not believe in
[2:44:12] Speaker 8: the whole Bible, it's okay, I understand that there is
[2:44:15] Speaker 8: one particular thing that made through. It was that the
[2:44:20] Speaker 8: the Christian experience on on its own developed in a
[2:44:24] Speaker 8: way that it shouldn't have been, or it was less
[2:44:31] Speaker 8: likely to be.
[2:44:32] Speaker 1: No, I think it's I think it developed identically to
[2:44:36] Speaker 1: other mystery cults of the day. So, for example, there's
[2:44:40] Speaker 1: one mystery cult that I've pointed to a lot, and
[2:44:43] Speaker 1: I don't want to necessarily say it was a mystery
[2:44:45] Speaker 1: called it started as a resurrection cult. That's the cult
[2:44:48] Speaker 1: to Arristius. There was a guy named Aristius who died
[2:44:52] Speaker 1: in a fuller shop and he resurrected from the dead.
[2:44:56] Speaker 1: He was seen by a multitude of witnesses, so much, oh,
[2:45:00] Speaker 1: that the Romans actually made a statue of them and
[2:45:04] Speaker 1: set it up next to the statue of Apollo in
[2:45:07] Speaker 1: one of the villages, and it's attested to in a
[2:45:11] Speaker 1: bunch of the Roman histories.
[2:45:12] Speaker 3: Right, but I'm sure you don't believe that Aristius rose
[2:45:15] Speaker 3: from the dead and was deified?
[2:45:17] Speaker 9: Right?
[2:45:19] Speaker 8: Do you have like like a big look, I'm looking
[2:45:22] Speaker 8: for it, Sorry for the back in March. Is there
[2:45:26] Speaker 8: something similar to the Bible in regards to that description.
[2:45:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, Book four of Herodotus' histories describes it. Pliny the
[2:45:36] Speaker 1: Elder as well. We also have the history of Apollonius,
[2:45:40] Speaker 1: we have Theodorus of Sicily, and Plutarch in Roman histories
[2:45:45] Speaker 1: writes about the resurrection of Aristius. So when I'm looking
[2:45:50] Speaker 1: at this, this cult around the resurrected Jesus, it just
[2:45:54] Speaker 1: looks like any other you know, early resurrection cult.
[2:46:01] Speaker 8: The thing is that, for example, what you just did
[2:46:04] Speaker 8: was I don't I don't do not wish to sound
[2:46:07] Speaker 8: like like a smarty pants. I am not. I just
[2:46:10] Speaker 8: try to find, let's say, a possible explanation to what
[2:46:14] Speaker 8: you said. Resurrection on itself does not necessarily mean, like
[2:46:26] Speaker 8: or how can I say it? If somebody comes and
[2:46:30] Speaker 8: tells me, hey, I saw a guy that was resurrected,
[2:46:34] Speaker 8: and you tell me, okay, that person must have or
[2:46:38] Speaker 8: must be in contact with the supernatural, or at least
[2:46:42] Speaker 8: most must have an understanding of reality that I clearly
[2:46:46] Speaker 8: don't because we you and I do not have like
[2:46:49] Speaker 8: those skills. We do not have the ability to die
[2:46:52] Speaker 8: and then come back to life. So if there, if
[2:46:54] Speaker 8: there was a person that actually has that ability, I
[2:46:58] Speaker 8: definitely wish to have conversation with Seth person. But as
[2:47:02] Speaker 8: far as I am concerned, the only the only message
[2:47:06] Speaker 8: though was able to go through and the spread against
[2:47:11] Speaker 8: opposition was Christianity.
[2:47:14] Speaker 7: There's a misconception here. There's a First of all, if
[2:47:17] Speaker 7: you're talking you're talking about all the persecution in the
[2:47:20] Speaker 7: first couple of centuries of Christianity or is it all
[2:47:23] Speaker 7: the Is that what you're talking about?
[2:47:26] Speaker 4: Yes?
[2:47:26] Speaker 7: Right, Well, first of all, that was never systematic, right,
[2:47:29] Speaker 7: and it was never continuous.
[2:47:31] Speaker 4: Right.
[2:47:31] Speaker 7: It was local in some regions in here, if anything,
[2:47:35] Speaker 7: that contributed to its growth. Okay, because martyrdom is very
[2:47:39] Speaker 7: I mean, just look at the Charlie Kirk thing, right,
[2:47:41] Speaker 7: look at all the conservative Christians right now, they they've
[2:47:45] Speaker 7: created martyrs.
[2:47:46] Speaker 4: Right.
[2:47:46] Speaker 7: And because the United States does not systematically oppress Christian Conservatives, right,
[2:47:52] Speaker 7: it actually causes a flourishing of you know, or at
[2:47:57] Speaker 7: least a kind of you know, they're up sort of
[2:48:00] Speaker 7: like active, more active than ever at least for a
[2:48:03] Speaker 7: little bit.
[2:48:04] Speaker 8: Right.
[2:48:04] Speaker 7: The idea is that because it wasn't systematic, it was local,
[2:48:08] Speaker 7: non continuous, it actually contributed to the growth of Christianity
[2:48:11] Speaker 7: because of all the modern.
[2:48:11] Speaker 8: Them And I agree with you what you said with that,
[2:48:16] Speaker 8: with that particular point, it was it wasn't deep systematic
[2:48:20] Speaker 8: because there was a point in time where it was
[2:48:23] Speaker 8: a law not to be a Christian in the entire That's.
[2:48:26] Speaker 1: Not the case at all.
[2:48:28] Speaker 12: It was a law.
[2:48:30] Speaker 1: I don't know who told you that, but that that's
[2:48:31] Speaker 1: a lie.
[2:48:32] Speaker 8: Yeah, historic historically, is it not? What was his name?
[2:48:37] Speaker 8: He was the emperor who was I think no constant
[2:48:43] Speaker 8: in the Great was the constant to make.
[2:48:47] Speaker 1: Constantly go ahead, constantly made it an official recognized religion
[2:48:53] Speaker 1: of the empire, and then his predecessors spread it by
[2:48:58] Speaker 1: the sword. In fact, as early as his predecessor they
[2:49:01] Speaker 1: were force baptizing Jewish people they immediately went on a
[2:49:06] Speaker 1: campaign of spreading it by the sword and by force.
[2:49:09] Speaker 1: But that's why it's so big. It wasn't that big.
[2:49:12] Speaker 1: In fact, their early the early opponents to Christianity, like
[2:49:15] Speaker 1: you read in the writings of Kelsis and Julian and
[2:49:17] Speaker 1: some of the others, it wasn't that big. Actually, they
[2:49:20] Speaker 1: were mostly tricking, like old widows and people who didn't
[2:49:24] Speaker 1: know any better. It wasn't until they spread it by
[2:49:27] Speaker 1: the sword under the Holy Roman Empire that it became big,
[2:49:31] Speaker 1: all right, So.
[2:49:32] Speaker 2: Which in fact makes it a great example of something
[2:49:34] Speaker 2: that survived in the face of persecution. Namely, the whole
[2:49:38] Speaker 2: the whole history of Jewish people for like the last
[2:49:40] Speaker 2: twenty five hundred years has basically been exiled, returned, exiled, returned, persecuted, survived,
[2:49:45] Speaker 2: persecuted like that. That's like the whole story.
[2:49:49] Speaker 8: So yeah, just for example, if you notice the difference
[2:49:52] Speaker 8: now that you have made another another another example, the
[2:49:55] Speaker 8: Jewish religion on itself is not les Ah. It has
[2:50:02] Speaker 8: not attracted as many souls as Christianity has. Why do
[2:50:06] Speaker 8: you think the region is well.
[2:50:08] Speaker 2: Judaism is not a proselytizing religion, meaning it doesn't seek
[2:50:11] Speaker 2: out new converts. It's just like a it's like a
[2:50:14] Speaker 2: family thing. It's like a like you know, you pass
[2:50:16] Speaker 2: it down in your family, and that's that you don't
[2:50:18] Speaker 2: like go to try to find new people.
[2:50:21] Speaker 8: What you say is something like it's based on the
[2:50:24] Speaker 8: current tradition, right.
[2:50:27] Speaker 2: No, I would say that it's based off of family
[2:50:30] Speaker 2: line and like it's because because it's like it's it's closer.
[2:50:35] Speaker 2: It's a Judaism is is much more like a like
[2:50:38] Speaker 2: a tribal tradition or like an ethnic tradition than it
[2:50:42] Speaker 2: is like a religion in the Christian sense, and so
[2:50:46] Speaker 2: it doesn't proselytize, it doesn't seek out new members. So
[2:50:48] Speaker 2: that's why it hasn't grown.
[2:50:50] Speaker 8: But for example, Judaism on on on a specific level,
[2:50:56] Speaker 8: do you believe that Judaism is just for the Jews
[2:51:00] Speaker 8: or the relation.
[2:51:01] Speaker 2: Kind of kind of by definition that's like, of course
[2:51:04] Speaker 2: it is. It's that's kind of by definition, it's Christianity.
[2:51:08] Speaker 7: Is Christianity for Christians, like.
[2:51:13] Speaker 12: It is.
[2:51:13] Speaker 8: Actually what I was trying to the the reason that
[2:51:16] Speaker 8: I was making this question was because of a bird
[2:51:18] Speaker 8: that you can find in Genesis that is a promise
[2:51:22] Speaker 8: that was made to Abraham. He never said, Okay, so
[2:51:26] Speaker 8: my my pact is with you and your descendants. But
[2:51:29] Speaker 8: he also said I Am going to make in you
[2:51:34] Speaker 8: all the families on earth bless. Does that sound like
[2:51:39] Speaker 8: something that's going to be tribal or was the intention
[2:51:42] Speaker 8: of God to make something out of Judaism?
[2:51:47] Speaker 2: I mean, we can debate the scripture if you want,
[2:51:49] Speaker 2: and that's probably Justin's forte. The point is is that
[2:51:51] Speaker 2: Judaism as a religious tradition is a closed practice, right, Like,
[2:51:56] Speaker 2: that's that's just how it is.
[2:51:57] Speaker 8: That tradition. That's that's the part where I am as
[2:52:00] Speaker 8: a tradition. It's a close practice, but right, and the
[2:52:03] Speaker 8: tradition is is what the tradition is.
[2:52:06] Speaker 2: What Judaism know is right, Like you can say like, oh,
[2:52:08] Speaker 2: it wasn't supposed to be based off of X y
[2:52:09] Speaker 2: Z scripture, but that's just irrelevant for the claim.
[2:52:13] Speaker 1: And yeah, I want to kind of if you if
[2:52:16] Speaker 1: you don't mind, I want to kind of recenter the
[2:52:18] Speaker 1: conversation because I don't know thanks here to debate the
[2:52:22] Speaker 1: the the way Judaism developed. What we're still trying to
[2:52:25] Speaker 1: establish is what would be a good reason to believe
[2:52:28] Speaker 1: that the Bible God is real, and it sounds like
[2:52:31] Speaker 1: the initial argument is the Bible God must be real
[2:52:34] Speaker 1: or else Christianity would have died out. But I don't
[2:52:37] Speaker 1: find that to be a compelling argument because we could
[2:52:40] Speaker 1: say the same about Mormonism. Mormonism must be real or
[2:52:43] Speaker 1: is because they grew in the face of persecution and
[2:52:46] Speaker 1: they didn't die out, right, So is there with Mormonism.
[2:52:50] Speaker 8: The problem with Mormonism is that before they oh sorry,
[2:52:55] Speaker 8: I interrupted you, please go ahead.
[2:52:57] Speaker 1: No, all I'm saying is like, if if that that's
[2:53:00] Speaker 1: the measuring stick, is it it survived in the face
[2:53:03] Speaker 1: of persecution. I just don't find that to be a
[2:53:05] Speaker 1: chapelling argument because we could say that about a bunch
[2:53:07] Speaker 1: of different religions.
[2:53:11] Speaker 8: Well, the thing that the thing that I that I
[2:53:13] Speaker 8: think it's the most compelling for me, aside from my
[2:53:17] Speaker 8: initial statement that it has to do with Jesus made
[2:53:22] Speaker 8: him Paul. I understand that you guys do not believe
[2:53:25] Speaker 8: that to be real or that it couldn't have never happened.
[2:53:29] Speaker 8: It could have been just simply Paul might have something,
[2:53:34] Speaker 8: might have eaten something, and then he had an illucination
[2:53:37] Speaker 8: and that made him believe that he was doing wrong
[2:53:39] Speaker 8: and that made him turn on under the nighty degrees?
[2:53:43] Speaker 8: What from my perspective, what makes his conversion believable?
[2:53:48] Speaker 3: But we don't even know that there's a guy named
[2:53:50] Speaker 3: Paul who had a conversion, like we're you're at a
[2:53:52] Speaker 3: different starting point than we are, Like you would first
[2:53:55] Speaker 3: have to demonstrate that that conversion took place and that
[2:53:58] Speaker 3: Jesus appeared the Paul before we would merit any like
[2:54:01] Speaker 3: any argument from it.
[2:54:03] Speaker 8: For example, my only, let's say, my only pillar to
[2:54:11] Speaker 8: sustain that Paul ever existed, was that the Bible say
[2:54:15] Speaker 8: it that you can say that all, but there is
[2:54:19] Speaker 8: also a book that's say in that Santa exists.
[2:54:21] Speaker 1: But the Bible says a lot of things that are
[2:54:23] Speaker 1: not true, like even Paul's own conversion experience. It can't
[2:54:26] Speaker 1: get the story right. In one story, the men all
[2:54:30] Speaker 1: fell down when they saw the light. In another story,
[2:54:33] Speaker 1: they remained standing. In one part of the Book of Acts,
[2:54:37] Speaker 1: it says that they saw the light, but they didn't
[2:54:39] Speaker 1: hear the voice. In another part of Acts, it says
[2:54:41] Speaker 1: they heard the voice, but they didn't see the light.
[2:54:43] Speaker 1: Like you can't even get its own story straight. Why
[2:54:46] Speaker 1: would I trust it when it says that Jesus manifested
[2:54:48] Speaker 1: to Paul.
[2:54:50] Speaker 8: I actually heard something similar, but another person in another
[2:54:55] Speaker 8: beard debunked it. Unfortunately, I do not have like I
[2:55:01] Speaker 8: did not prepare that a specific topic for the conversation.
[2:55:06] Speaker 8: I don't follow that.
[2:55:09] Speaker 3: Specific verses if you want so, the specific verses are
[2:55:14] Speaker 3: in Acts nine and twenty two, and says he fell
[2:55:18] Speaker 3: to the ground and heard a voice saying to him,
[2:55:20] Speaker 3: sal Saw, why do you persecute me?
[2:55:21] Speaker 1: And he asked, who are you lord? It's funny, who
[2:55:25] Speaker 1: are you lord? The reply came, I am Jesus whom
[2:55:28] Speaker 1: you are persecuting. But get up and enter the city
[2:55:31] Speaker 1: and you will be told what you to do.
[2:55:32] Speaker 2: There.
[2:55:33] Speaker 1: The men who are traveling with him stood speechless because
[2:55:37] Speaker 1: they heard the voice but did not They saw no one,
[2:55:40] Speaker 1: so they didn't see anything. They just heard a voice
[2:55:42] Speaker 1: coming from the heavens, and they're just chilling over there
[2:55:44] Speaker 1: standing Acts twenty two, he says, I fell to the
[2:55:47] Speaker 1: ground and heard a voice saying to me, Salsaw, why
[2:55:50] Speaker 1: are you persecuting me? I answered, who are you lord?
[2:55:52] Speaker 1: Then he said to me, I am Jesus of Nazareth,
[2:55:55] Speaker 1: whom you are persecuting. Now those who were with me
[2:55:58] Speaker 1: saw the light, but then hear the voice of the
[2:56:01] Speaker 1: one who was speaking. So like the conversion story of Paul.
[2:56:06] Speaker 1: If it's so like foundational to the story, it's crazy
[2:56:10] Speaker 1: to me that the same book, like the Axe is
[2:56:13] Speaker 1: once it's supposed to be one complete work. It can't
[2:56:15] Speaker 1: even figure out what happened in the story. Why is
[2:56:18] Speaker 1: there a contradiction in God's perfect word?
[2:56:30] Speaker 3: So busy there that'll be lost to them.
[2:56:37] Speaker 1: I think he fell off the horse.
[2:56:38] Speaker 4: Sorry, there is we can hear you.
[2:56:40] Speaker 8: Yeah, I apologize. I was trying to to switch to
[2:56:46] Speaker 8: another tap and then open the verses as you were
[2:56:49] Speaker 8: speaking and I was reading. Can you please repeat again
[2:56:52] Speaker 8: the second verse in acts I think is just twenty
[2:56:56] Speaker 8: twenty second.
[2:56:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's in Acts twenty two, and you want versus
[2:57:03] Speaker 1: seven through nine.
[2:57:06] Speaker 8: Seven to nine? Do I have like thirty seconds to
[2:57:08] Speaker 8: read that quick?
[2:57:10] Speaker 10: Yeah?
[2:57:11] Speaker 1: I could put it on the screen.
[2:57:14] Speaker 8: Yeah, please go, please do it?
[2:57:16] Speaker 1: Can you read the screen or the text too small?
[2:57:18] Speaker 1: I can make it bigger.
[2:57:21] Speaker 8: I can only see your face in the top that
[2:57:24] Speaker 8: I am reading.
[2:57:25] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I know, I never mind. Sorry you Next
[2:57:30] Speaker 1: time with live stream, I'll hook it up so that
[2:57:32] Speaker 1: you can see my actual screen, not just my camera.
[2:57:35] Speaker 1: Sorry about that, but yeah, So the passage reads, now
[2:57:42] Speaker 1: those who were with me saw the light but did
[2:57:46] Speaker 1: not hear the voice of the one who was speaking.
[2:57:48] Speaker 1: That's nine or twenty two nine, So it says they
[2:57:52] Speaker 1: saw the light but did not hear the voice. And
[2:57:55] Speaker 1: then in Acts chapter nine, verse seven, it says the
[2:58:00] Speaker 1: men who are traveling with him stood speechless because they
[2:58:02] Speaker 1: heard the voice but saw no one. So in Acts
[2:58:06] Speaker 1: nine they heard the voice but they didn't see anything.
[2:58:08] Speaker 1: In Acts chapter twenty two, they saw something, but they
[2:58:11] Speaker 1: didn't hear anything.
[2:58:19] Speaker 3: Then we lost them again.
[2:58:23] Speaker 8: I don't know, I am actually, I am actually listen
[2:58:26] Speaker 8: listening to you. I do apologize. Actually, as I said,
[2:58:33] Speaker 8: there was a portion of the burst. I am not
[2:58:37] Speaker 8: sure if this has to do specifically with the translation.
[2:58:41] Speaker 8: I don't know if you can enlighten me about it
[2:58:43] Speaker 8: as well. But like there are instances where, let's say,
[2:58:51] Speaker 8: when when someone hears the spirits and the spirit is
[2:58:55] Speaker 8: willing to communicate something as a supernatural let's say experience
[2:59:01] Speaker 8: when someone hears the voice of the spirits. Depending on
[2:59:05] Speaker 8: the on the language the person the person speaks, they
[2:59:09] Speaker 8: understand the spirit in the same manner. Now, one verse
[2:59:14] Speaker 8: says that they heard a voice, the other the other
[2:59:20] Speaker 8: verse says they were unable to Now what if they
[2:59:24] Speaker 8: actually hurt something but were unable to understand, And I
[2:59:28] Speaker 8: am I know that.
[2:59:29] Speaker 1: These understand Nope, didn't say understand.
[2:59:32] Speaker 5: It says here he understand.
[2:59:35] Speaker 8: Yeah, that's that's one way to put it. As well.
[2:59:37] Speaker 8: I would like to know if the word used in
[2:59:40] Speaker 8: the same in the same verses is the same in Greek.
[2:59:43] Speaker 8: For example, I don't know. I will have to I
[2:59:46] Speaker 8: will have to seek that is that is that is
[2:59:49] Speaker 8: specific topic in another time. But what I tried to
[2:59:54] Speaker 8: say as well. For example, you say that the Bible is,
[2:59:57] Speaker 8: for example, commit errors or says lies, and that God
[3:00:02] Speaker 8: should make his word like perfect to the Dodd in
[3:00:07] Speaker 8: the letter right.
[3:00:09] Speaker 1: No, I agree that it shouldn't tell lies, So whether
[3:00:12] Speaker 1: or not it's perfect, I think is different. But the
[3:00:15] Speaker 1: Bible clearly just says things repeatedly that are not true,
[3:00:19] Speaker 1: which is leading me and I would say many others
[3:00:21] Speaker 1: to the conclusion that the Bible literally can't be trusted,
[3:00:24] Speaker 1: and even some of them are like deep theological untruths. So,
[3:00:28] Speaker 1: for example, the Old Testament tells that the law of
[3:00:32] Speaker 1: Moses is going to be in effect for literally ever forever,
[3:00:36] Speaker 1: and then Jesus comes fined and says the same thing
[3:00:38] Speaker 1: until heaven and Earth passes away. Then Paul comes around
[3:00:41] Speaker 1: and says, Nope, it was temporary. It's not here forever.
[3:00:44] Speaker 1: I'm not under the law. You're not under the law.
[3:00:46] Speaker 1: Don't get circumcised. It's not good for you. This is
[3:00:49] Speaker 1: a huge contradiction. Either the law is permanent or it's temporary,
[3:00:53] Speaker 1: but it can't be both.
[3:00:55] Speaker 8: I have a study of data specific issue. You could
[3:00:58] Speaker 8: say I was one. I was trying to make it
[3:01:02] Speaker 8: to to the I was trying to address the core.
[3:01:05] Speaker 10: Of these.
[3:01:07] Speaker 8: Problems on itself. The thing is that if you if
[3:01:11] Speaker 8: you go sorry for the background noise, there is a
[3:01:16] Speaker 8: soccer there is a U, there's a there's a soccer game,
[3:01:21] Speaker 8: and there's a lot of people enjoying it and yelling
[3:01:24] Speaker 8: in the background. And that the my my understanding of that,
[3:01:31] Speaker 8: for example, is that the God in the Old Testament
[3:01:36] Speaker 8: it's like or the Old Testament on itself, it's like
[3:01:39] Speaker 8: the base the basics of the of the justice for God,
[3:01:43] Speaker 8: or or the moral compass for God. That means, for example,
[3:01:48] Speaker 8: from my perspective, I just want to be clear God,
[3:01:54] Speaker 8: God's guidance through true humanity is progressive. God reveals the
[3:02:01] Speaker 8: information we need to grow spiritually in a progressive manner.
[3:02:07] Speaker 12: As does the Bible.
[3:02:08] Speaker 8: Say, as I said, it was my understanding, and I have,
[3:02:14] Speaker 8: let's say, and a specific burst to prove it. Go
[3:02:19] Speaker 8: to Galatians three twenty four.
[3:02:21] Speaker 1: Yes, that's exactly what I'm quoting. Paul says that the
[3:02:24] Speaker 1: law was temporary. It was a temporary school master until Christ,
[3:02:27] Speaker 1: which is a contradiction of Christ and of yeah, yeah,
[3:02:32] Speaker 1: I will show you, I can show you.
[3:02:35] Speaker 9: I don't know what what.
[3:02:36] Speaker 8: What it says is that the law is a tutor.
[3:02:41] Speaker 1: The temporary.
[3:02:42] Speaker 3: It is a temporary tour until Christ.
[3:02:46] Speaker 8: To take us to Christ, which is not the same
[3:02:50] Speaker 8: not to take.
[3:02:51] Speaker 1: Us to Christ. It says, it says until hold on,
[3:02:53] Speaker 1: hold on. It says until Christ, all right, which implies
[3:02:56] Speaker 1: that it's it's temporatary, right, So hold on.
[3:02:59] Speaker 5: My question to you to hold on, so.
[3:03:03] Speaker 3: Take a deep breast.
[3:03:05] Speaker 1: You don't have to explain Galatians three. We already agree.
[3:03:08] Speaker 1: Galatians three states that the law was temporary. You don't
[3:03:11] Speaker 1: have to debate that point. The problem is not.
[3:03:14] Speaker 8: That Glades use the temporal in my goodness.
[3:03:18] Speaker 3: All right, well, I'll just show you, okay.
[3:03:23] Speaker 1: The whole point of Galatians is demonstrating that the law
[3:03:25] Speaker 1: was temporary. It says, now, before faith came, we were
[3:03:28] Speaker 1: imprisoned before, meaning there's something different happening.
[3:03:32] Speaker 16: Now.
[3:03:33] Speaker 1: Before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the
[3:03:37] Speaker 1: law until Faith would be revealed. Therefore, the law was
[3:03:40] Speaker 1: our disciplinarian until Christ came, which means now it's not
[3:03:45] Speaker 1: a disciplinarian, so that we might be reckoned as righteous
[3:03:48] Speaker 1: by faith. So Paul is saying that you don't need
[3:03:51] Speaker 1: the Law of Moses anymore, which is why he says
[3:03:53] Speaker 1: in Ephesians two fourteen and fifteen that the requirements of
[3:03:57] Speaker 1: the law have been entirely abolished. That's why he said
[3:04:00] Speaker 1: in one Corinthians nine twenty that even he is no
[3:04:03] Speaker 1: longer required for all the Law of Moses. Is why
[3:04:05] Speaker 1: he says in the same book we're reading now, he
[3:04:08] Speaker 1: says that you should not take the mark of circumcision.
[3:04:12] Speaker 1: He says, if you take the mark of circumcision, Jesus
[3:04:14] Speaker 1: Christ is of no use to you. This man did
[3:04:17] Speaker 1: not believe that the law was still in effect. That
[3:04:20] Speaker 1: makes the law temporary.
[3:04:25] Speaker 8: Shall I now go with my my.
[3:04:31] Speaker 4: Part?
[3:04:34] Speaker 1: I don't know what your part is. Are you going
[3:04:35] Speaker 1: to address the passage?
[3:04:38] Speaker 4: Yes?
[3:04:40] Speaker 8: Now you said for example it was temporal. But for example,
[3:04:45] Speaker 8: if a tutors comes to you and he teaches you,
[3:04:49] Speaker 8: and he says, hey, one plows one equals two, and
[3:04:53] Speaker 8: then he goes, are their teachings gone?
[3:04:59] Speaker 1: No one's asking if the teaching still exists, rational should
[3:05:01] Speaker 1: people follow it? No one's claiming that the law, like
[3:05:05] Speaker 1: the writings of the law, disappeared. The question is whether
[3:05:08] Speaker 1: or not God wants you to follow the law.
[3:05:13] Speaker 8: The purpose of the law, as I said, was to
[3:05:15] Speaker 8: be a tutor, was to teach us the basics.
[3:05:18] Speaker 1: No one cares. We're at. The question at hand is
[3:05:21] Speaker 1: not whether or not it teaches anyone anything. The question
[3:05:23] Speaker 1: is whether or not you should follow it. Should the
[3:05:26] Speaker 1: law still be in effect?
[3:05:29] Speaker 8: That's the point. The laws are is still in effect
[3:05:33] Speaker 8: as long as you as long as you believe that
[3:05:37] Speaker 8: the laws are the only thing to follow.
[3:05:39] Speaker 1: Well, that's literally incorrect. Because Paul says, or he is
[3:05:43] Speaker 1: our peace in his flesh, he has made both into
[3:05:46] Speaker 1: one and has broken down the dividing wall that is
[3:05:48] Speaker 1: a hostility between us abolishing the law with its commandments
[3:05:52] Speaker 1: and ordinances. Paul explicitly says that the law has been abolished,
[3:05:57] Speaker 1: its commandments and its ordinances, which is why he says
[3:06:01] Speaker 1: in One Corinthians nineteen twenty that I myself am not
[3:06:05] Speaker 1: under the law Jew. He's a Jew, he's a Hebrew
[3:06:07] Speaker 1: of Hebrews. If Paul is not under the law, then
[3:06:10] Speaker 1: nobody's under the law.
[3:06:13] Speaker 8: That's the thing. Being under the law means that you
[3:06:17] Speaker 8: guide your life only through the law. But the point
[3:06:21] Speaker 8: with no sinity is that, yes, sir, because the law
[3:06:26] Speaker 8: and this is the description. Can you please allow me
[3:06:29] Speaker 8: to elaborate.
[3:06:31] Speaker 1: You can elaborate, but every time you say something wrong,
[3:06:33] Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say you're wrong.
[3:06:36] Speaker 8: And can you please wait until I explain it for
[3:06:39] Speaker 8: you to let's say, come to argument.
[3:06:43] Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, go ahead a lot of the audience, but
[3:06:45] Speaker 1: it's not going to make the conversation go any quicker.
[3:06:48] Speaker 8: According to Paul, what is the purpose of Well, you
[3:06:53] Speaker 8: and I established that it was a tutter, But the
[3:06:56] Speaker 8: purpose of the law is to make the sin visible.
[3:07:00] Speaker 8: That is, no the purpose of law. Go ahead, I
[3:07:04] Speaker 8: am going to do. I am going to give you
[3:07:06] Speaker 8: the verse.
[3:07:08] Speaker 3: But I don't care what Paul says.
[3:07:10] Speaker 1: I'm trying to help you to understand that Paul doesn't
[3:07:14] Speaker 1: agree with Jesus or with the Old Testament. Jesus said
[3:07:16] Speaker 1: to follow the commandments. He says, in order to be
[3:07:19] Speaker 1: great in the Kingdom of Heaven, you must follow the
[3:07:22] Speaker 1: law and teach the law. His father in Deuteronomy said
[3:07:26] Speaker 1: on four different occasions that the law is going to
[3:07:29] Speaker 1: be in effect forever, no.
[3:07:36] Speaker 8: Argament.
[3:07:38] Speaker 1: No, I'm going to read the I'm going to read
[3:07:40] Speaker 1: the verse for you because it's clear you haven't read it,
[3:07:42] Speaker 1: and that's okay. Most Christians don't read their Bibles.
[3:07:45] Speaker 2: That were used to.
[3:07:48] Speaker 1: Matthew seventeen. Jesus, do not think that I have come
[3:07:52] Speaker 1: to abolish the law or the prophets. I have not
[3:07:55] Speaker 1: come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly, I tell you,
[3:07:58] Speaker 1: until heaven and earth passed away way, not one letter,
[3:08:01] Speaker 1: not one stroke of a letter, will pass away from
[3:08:03] Speaker 1: the law into all of the accomplished. Therefore, whoever breaks
[3:08:07] Speaker 1: one of the least of these commandments and teaches others
[3:08:09] Speaker 1: to do the same will be called least in the
[3:08:12] Speaker 1: Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever does them and teaches them
[3:08:15] Speaker 1: will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven, which means,
[3:08:18] Speaker 1: in order to be great in the Kingdom of Heaven,
[3:08:21] Speaker 1: you need to follow the commandments. You got to follow
[3:08:24] Speaker 1: the law. No, that's what he said.
[3:08:32] Speaker 8: No, no, no, no, the point of the following, You're
[3:08:34] Speaker 8: missing something.
[3:08:36] Speaker 1: What am I missing?
[3:08:37] Speaker 8: You already know the birds? It is the burst one
[3:08:42] Speaker 8: the rich. The rich person spoke to Jesus.
[3:08:46] Speaker 1: And Jesus said, follow the commandments.
[3:08:50] Speaker 8: That's right. But about but when he when he said
[3:08:53] Speaker 8: follow the commendments, what was the respond of the rich man?
[3:08:56] Speaker 8: He said, all of those things, I have done it
[3:08:59] Speaker 8: since I was young. And what was Jesus response? One
[3:09:02] Speaker 8: thing is missing, he.
[3:09:05] Speaker 1: Says, if you want to be perfect, all right, yep,
[3:09:10] Speaker 1: So if you want to be perfect, you must follow
[3:09:12] Speaker 1: the commandments and sell all your possessions to support two things.
[3:09:15] Speaker 1: I bet you didn't. You've not done.
[3:09:18] Speaker 8: Now go ahead and continue the burst until the end.
[3:09:23] Speaker 8: Why because we just didn't.
[3:09:27] Speaker 7: We just didn't.
[3:09:28] Speaker 1: We just didn't.
[3:09:28] Speaker 5: We just read it.
[3:09:30] Speaker 8: No, you haven't.
[3:09:31] Speaker 3: Where where where?
[3:09:33] Speaker 1: In the story of the rich young Ruler, does he
[3:09:36] Speaker 1: say not to follow the law.
[3:09:38] Speaker 8: No, no, no, it's not. It's not that is that
[3:09:40] Speaker 8: you're missing something.
[3:09:42] Speaker 1: I agree, but missing something doesn't mean you don't follow
[3:09:46] Speaker 1: the law. To be clear, he doesn't He not wants
[3:09:50] Speaker 1: to Jesus say don't follow the law, like if he
[3:09:52] Speaker 1: he's saying, follow the law, and then also do this,
[3:09:57] Speaker 1: follow the law, and then it also follow the law
[3:10:00] Speaker 1: law and then also do this, which means Jesus thinks
[3:10:03] Speaker 1: you should follow the law and.
[3:10:07] Speaker 8: What else because you're only focusing on the law.
[3:10:10] Speaker 1: But Jesus, topic, No, the topic is about the law.
[3:10:16] Speaker 1: The question I'm trying to determine right now is whether
[3:10:19] Speaker 1: or not you should follow the law. Jesus says you
[3:10:22] Speaker 1: should follow the law. Paul says you shouldn't follow the law.
[3:10:25] Speaker 1: Paul says that it was abolished. Jesus says, it's not abolished.
[3:10:28] Speaker 1: That's a direct contradiction.
[3:10:31] Speaker 8: No, it is not. And I was gonna tell you why.
[3:10:34] Speaker 8: When the rich man said to Jesus, yes, I have
[3:10:36] Speaker 8: done that since I was young. The response provided by Jesus,
[3:10:40] Speaker 8: one thing you're missing, go and sell all your belongings
[3:10:46] Speaker 8: and then give them to the poor and follow me.
[3:10:51] Speaker 1: That still doesn't address the question. The question is should
[3:10:54] Speaker 1: you follow the commandments? I don't know if you're tracking
[3:10:57] Speaker 1: right now. No one's asking whether you should follow Jesus.
[3:11:00] Speaker 1: We're asking should the followers of Jesus follow the law?
[3:11:05] Speaker 1: Should the followers of Jesus follow the law?
[3:11:07] Speaker 8: Yes? Or no?
[3:11:08] Speaker 4: In order? For in order?
[3:11:10] Speaker 8: It addresses the exact same question.
[3:11:13] Speaker 1: So do I have to say yes or no? Should
[3:11:16] Speaker 1: the Christians follow the law?
[3:11:19] Speaker 8: Not just the law?
[3:11:21] Speaker 1: Try again? Should they follow the law? Yes or no?
[3:11:25] Speaker 8: The law and Jesus?
[3:11:27] Speaker 1: Try again, should they follow the law of Moses? It's
[3:11:31] Speaker 1: a yes or no.
[3:11:33] Speaker 8: Search For the following verse, who are according to the
[3:11:37] Speaker 8: pole those who are going to go to heaven? Is?
[3:11:40] Speaker 7: Does the law? Does the law pose Jesus?
[3:11:45] Speaker 8: The law compliments Jesus?
[3:11:47] Speaker 7: Now what I asked though, Does the law pose Jesus?
[3:11:50] Speaker 8: No? It does not.
[3:11:51] Speaker 7: Okay, So then why do you have to caveat that?
[3:11:55] Speaker 8: Oh?
[3:11:55] Speaker 7: Wait, not? Should you just not follow? It's not just
[3:11:57] Speaker 7: that you should follow all you should follow Jesus. There's
[3:11:59] Speaker 7: no there's no inconsistency between them. So you could have
[3:12:03] Speaker 7: just answered his question is yes, because the law is
[3:12:08] Speaker 7: not Jesus. Okay, let's let's ask Justin's question again. Okay, uh,
[3:12:14] Speaker 7: we're false or yes or no? You ought to follow
[3:12:17] Speaker 7: the law?
[3:12:20] Speaker 21: Hm.
[3:12:21] Speaker 8: I'm going to tell you this. If you follow Jesus,
[3:12:24] Speaker 8: you can I don't want to.
[3:12:25] Speaker 7: We'll let you explain that say yes or no, or
[3:12:28] Speaker 7: you can you can challenge the coherence of the question
[3:12:31] Speaker 7: and then expect I want to.
[3:12:34] Speaker 8: I wish to show in the coherence of the question,
[3:12:36] Speaker 8: because Jesus said, for example.
[3:12:38] Speaker 1: You don't know if the question should you follow the law?
[3:12:41] Speaker 3: Is coherent?
[3:12:42] Speaker 1: That's crazy.
[3:12:43] Speaker 8: The thing is, the thing is that the question leads
[3:12:47] Speaker 8: to a a frame response no. It doesn't response that.
[3:12:53] Speaker 1: It needs to be yes, no, or I don't know.
[3:12:56] Speaker 3: The question is, according to Jesus, do you follow the law?
[3:13:03] Speaker 1: This is not a hard one.
[3:13:04] Speaker 8: Now the point is the following. Okay, so yes, The
[3:13:11] Speaker 8: point is the following. Only Jesus was the one to
[3:13:15] Speaker 8: be clear.
[3:13:16] Speaker 1: That's not not only is that not true, but it's
[3:13:18] Speaker 1: also not answer the question. You don't get to say
[3:13:21] Speaker 1: more words until you say yes or no.
[3:13:26] Speaker 7: This way, this way, I think I can force it right.
[3:13:29] Speaker 7: What is what is the law?
[3:13:31] Speaker 8: What is the law?
[3:13:33] Speaker 7: Is the law moral law? What is the law to
[3:13:35] Speaker 7: fine law here in this context.
[3:13:38] Speaker 8: The context provided by Paul is that the law determined
[3:13:42] Speaker 8: what sin is?
[3:13:43] Speaker 7: What is the law is? The law is that the
[3:13:45] Speaker 7: law the will of God earned something different.
[3:13:49] Speaker 8: The law, let's say, is the bare minimum to consider
[3:13:52] Speaker 8: someone fair?
[3:13:54] Speaker 7: Okay, is the law the will of God or something different.
[3:13:58] Speaker 8: Let's say that is the bare many one when it
[3:14:01] Speaker 8: comes to God's will according to justice.
[3:14:04] Speaker 7: Okay, So the law is more or less God's will.
[3:14:09] Speaker 8: It is, let's say, part of God's will.
[3:14:12] Speaker 7: So whatever God's will, should you obey God's will?
[3:14:17] Speaker 8: I shall obey God's will in its entirety?
[3:14:22] Speaker 7: All right, So that includes the part that is the law.
[3:14:25] Speaker 7: So the answer to the question is yes.
[3:14:27] Speaker 16: And you've been obfuscating the reason that I cannot say,
[3:14:31] Speaker 16: And I'm going to explain the reason that I cannot
[3:14:34] Speaker 16: say that I should follow the law only is because nobody.
[3:14:38] Speaker 5: I didn't know.
[3:14:39] Speaker 1: No one said only. So no one's asking about only.
[3:14:42] Speaker 1: I don't know why you keep adding that we're asking
[3:14:43] Speaker 1: should you follow it?
[3:14:45] Speaker 8: Sorry, I understand that it was only I am sorry.
[3:14:50] Speaker 10: Not one.
[3:14:50] Speaker 1: So we say only no questions should you follow the law.
[3:14:58] Speaker 1: It's a yes or no.
[3:15:00] Speaker 8: The response for that, my friend, is that if we try,
[3:15:05] Speaker 8: we will fail.
[3:15:06] Speaker 1: That's not answer to the question yes or no.
[3:15:09] Speaker 7: And then say yes or no.
[3:15:12] Speaker 3: That's the thing, my friend, If I do you he
[3:15:15] Speaker 3: can't say it because he knows the answer leads to
[3:15:17] Speaker 3: a contradiction.
[3:15:18] Speaker 1: He's too cowardly to admit it.
[3:15:20] Speaker 7: And not just that he said that, he said that
[3:15:22] Speaker 7: the law. Wait, you said that the law was part
[3:15:24] Speaker 7: of God's will and that you ought to obey the
[3:15:27] Speaker 7: entirety of God's will. So if you say no, right,
[3:15:31] Speaker 7: you're screwed, because then you're saying to disobey a subset
[3:15:34] Speaker 7: of God's will. If you say yes, justin gets you
[3:15:37] Speaker 7: with his argument.
[3:15:38] Speaker 2: Right.
[3:15:38] Speaker 7: So that's the.
[3:15:40] Speaker 1: And to be clearer, pivot doesn't work either because Luke
[3:15:43] Speaker 1: chapter one says Zachariah and Elizabeth were righteous according to
[3:15:46] Speaker 1: all the commands of the law. It says both of
[3:15:48] Speaker 1: them were righteous before the Lord, living blamelessly according to
[3:15:51] Speaker 1: all the commandments and the regulations of the Lord. So
[3:15:54] Speaker 1: even your pivot fails. So stop trying to pivot and
[3:15:57] Speaker 1: just say yes or no should you follow the law.
[3:16:01] Speaker 1: It's a yes or no.
[3:16:04] Speaker 8: The answer will be The thing is. The thing is
[3:16:07] Speaker 8: as follow.
[3:16:09] Speaker 11: If I tell you.
[3:16:10] Speaker 1: So, here's what's going to happen every time you respond
[3:16:13] Speaker 1: with something other than the yes or no when I
[3:16:15] Speaker 1: mute you, right, I don't want to have to mute people.
[3:16:18] Speaker 1: I want you to be honest. Right, But I'm not
[3:16:20] Speaker 1: here for dishonest dialogue. Like never once would we take
[3:16:25] Speaker 1: an easy answer no question and just refuse to answer it.
[3:16:29] Speaker 1: So if you're refusing to engage in dialogue with us,
[3:16:32] Speaker 1: we'll refuse to engage in dialogue with you.
[3:16:34] Speaker 3: So again, what we need is either a yes or no.
[3:16:38] Speaker 1: Should you follow the.
[3:16:40] Speaker 3: Law of Moses?
[3:16:43] Speaker 8: Yes, if you wish to fail?
[3:16:46] Speaker 1: No one asked that question. Does Jesus want you to
[3:16:50] Speaker 1: follow the law? Does Jesus want does not? Does Jesus
[3:16:55] Speaker 1: want you to follow the law?
[3:16:57] Speaker 8: Do you want me to prove to you that is
[3:16:59] Speaker 8: a bability?
[3:17:00] Speaker 1: I want you to answer the question, does Jesus want
[3:17:02] Speaker 1: you to follow the law?
[3:17:05] Speaker 8: And I am answering according to the scriptures.
[3:17:08] Speaker 9: You're not.
[3:17:10] Speaker 1: You need to say yes or no.
[3:17:12] Speaker 2: Look, maybe I can phrase it a different way that'll
[3:17:14] Speaker 2: be easier for you to answer. If you went back
[3:17:16] Speaker 2: in time and you found Jesus on the streets of Jerusalem,
[3:17:19] Speaker 2: and you asked him, should we follow the laws of Moses?
[3:17:22] Speaker 2: What would he say?
[3:17:25] Speaker 8: In this specific question?
[3:17:28] Speaker 4: Am I a Jew?
[3:17:30] Speaker 2: Sure?
[3:17:32] Speaker 8: He would say yes?
[3:17:34] Speaker 2: Okay, Now what if you were not a Jew and
[3:17:37] Speaker 2: follower of his? What if you were a Greek follower
[3:17:39] Speaker 2: of his?
[3:17:42] Speaker 8: You're avoiding the the response.
[3:17:46] Speaker 2: No, So you answered. You answered one half, which is,
[3:17:49] Speaker 2: if you're a Jew, he would say yes. Now if
[3:17:51] Speaker 2: you were a non Jew, what would he say?
[3:17:52] Speaker 8: But but the thing is that you already answered the question.
[3:17:56] Speaker 1: What a coward answer the question?
[3:17:58] Speaker 5: Soul?
[3:17:58] Speaker 1: You're insufferable?
[3:17:59] Speaker 5: Why is it?
[3:18:00] Speaker 2: Why is it so hard to answer the question? So
[3:18:02] Speaker 2: you're not so you're a non Jew? You're agreeing. You
[3:18:05] Speaker 2: asked him, you're one of the followers of Jesus. You
[3:18:08] Speaker 2: asked him, look, should we be following the laws of Moses?
[3:18:13] Speaker 8: And I am saying to you there was a rich
[3:18:16] Speaker 8: man that approached Jesus who was a Jew?
[3:18:18] Speaker 5: What was he?
[3:18:18] Speaker 1: Just read the story? All right, we're done you look,
[3:18:21] Speaker 1: I'm yep, Okay, this over?
[3:18:23] Speaker 2: Thank you? All right, I've been I've been done for
[3:18:25] Speaker 2: the last twenty minutes for what's worth.
[3:18:26] Speaker 1: Yeah, we're not going to do that ring around Rose anymore.
[3:18:29] Speaker 5: Soul.
[3:18:29] Speaker 1: You need to learn how to have a conversation, my friend.
[3:18:32] Speaker 1: All right, let me grab our super gau we'll get
[3:18:34] Speaker 1: our next guest in here. I think Jeremiah was coming
[3:18:36] Speaker 1: in next. Uh discordant. Great to see you. Thank you
[3:18:40] Speaker 1: for the six ninety nine, says wake up, sorry, woke up,
[3:18:44] Speaker 1: got out of bed, bumped my head, and invented a religion.
[3:18:47] Speaker 7: Paul the.
[3:18:49] Speaker 1: Actually, I do believe that Paul's conversion was like a
[3:18:54] Speaker 1: legitimate near death experience. I think he fell off his horse,
[3:18:57] Speaker 1: bumped his head, had one to suppose a near death experience,
[3:19:01] Speaker 1: and he was a madman the.
[3:19:03] Speaker 3: Rest of his life because of it.
[3:19:04] Speaker 1: It's erect him. I think he was probably always a
[3:19:07] Speaker 1: madman though. Nucleo tidal Wave, great name, and thank you
[3:19:11] Speaker 1: for the six sixty six. Hel Nero says, love you guys,
[3:19:13] Speaker 1: but I have some bad news for Justin. The lions
[3:19:17] Speaker 1: are cooking the browns. Right, No, sorry, not so.
[3:19:21] Speaker 2: The lion does not concern himself with the browns.
[3:19:26] Speaker 1: To be fair, listen, everyone's going to cook the browns
[3:19:29] Speaker 1: this year.
[3:19:29] Speaker 2: It's just it's one of the erminally online people caught
[3:19:32] Speaker 2: the reference I just made. I understand that Justin might
[3:19:34] Speaker 2: not be terminally online.
[3:19:35] Speaker 1: I I'm sorry. Not only am I not terminally online,
[3:19:39] Speaker 1: I'm a boomer.
[3:19:40] Speaker 2: So these references are right over the understandable.
[3:19:44] Speaker 1: Thank you though, Shaq, thank you for the superjet, says
[3:19:47] Speaker 1: he thinks he is the chosen one tt Jesse the
[3:19:51] Speaker 1: boy you mean?
[3:19:52] Speaker 3: Is that somebody in the comments?
[3:19:53] Speaker 2: I don't know what that means.
[3:19:55] Speaker 1: I don't know what that means either. Thank you for
[3:19:56] Speaker 1: the superjet though, and Judas, thank you for the superjet,
[3:19:59] Speaker 1: says made the your skins be with you. Jesus, That
[3:20:02] Speaker 1: definitely Jesus quote actually oblivion, says Justin explained Luke twenty
[3:20:08] Speaker 1: three thirty four. If we are under the law, I mean,
[3:20:13] Speaker 1: did you not just read the passages where Jesus clearly
[3:20:16] Speaker 1: said to follow the law because it's under in effect
[3:20:20] Speaker 1: until heaven and Earth pass away. But sure, I'll go
[3:20:22] Speaker 1: to Luke twenty three thirty four, which I assume doesn't
[3:20:26] Speaker 1: even quote Jesus.
[3:20:27] Speaker 3: Let's see what it says.
[3:20:30] Speaker 1: Then, Jesus says, Father, forgive them, for they do not
[3:20:33] Speaker 1: know what they are doing, and they cast lots to
[3:20:36] Speaker 1: divide his clothing. Surely that's not the passage you were
[3:20:39] Speaker 1: looking for. Maybe you're reading the wrong Bible.
[3:20:44] Speaker 2: Could try though, maybe it's in the wrong order.
[3:20:46] Speaker 1: It could be, it could be.
[3:20:47] Speaker 8: It.
[3:20:48] Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of verses in the Bible,
[3:20:50] Speaker 2: you could just randomize the order and it would be
[3:20:53] Speaker 2: the same. It's true, like not all of them, surely,
[3:20:57] Speaker 2: but definitely they are big chunks that you could just
[3:20:59] Speaker 2: randomize the verses and it would.
[3:21:02] Speaker 1: If you compare the chronology of like Luke and John,
[3:21:06] Speaker 1: the chronology is way off, like the cleansing of the
[3:21:08] Speaker 1: temples in the second chapter of John, but the cleansing
[3:21:12] Speaker 1: of the Temple and the other Gospels is like the
[3:21:14] Speaker 1: last thing he does prior to the all of it discourse.
[3:21:17] Speaker 1: So it's just it's backwards cases. Oh my God, Danny,
[3:21:21] Speaker 1: I heck and love.
[3:21:22] Speaker 3: Danny, and we agree big w Danny behave today.
[3:21:26] Speaker 2: So although for what it's worth, your misbehavior is probably
[3:21:30] Speaker 2: what brings the audience.
[3:21:34] Speaker 7: Guy, But I almost lost it on the other guy.
[3:21:37] Speaker 1: So soul was was was aggravating. I think the other
[3:21:42] Speaker 1: guests weren't quite as aggriate.
[3:21:44] Speaker 5: At least for me.
[3:21:46] Speaker 7: Yeah that guy, the sole guy, Yeah, yeah.
[3:21:48] Speaker 1: Straight up dishonest Jeremiah, welcome in are at least eighteen
[3:21:51] Speaker 1: and do you believe in God?
[3:21:54] Speaker 5: Yes?
[3:21:55] Speaker 19: Well I think that's why I kind of like defer
[3:21:59] Speaker 19: because I believe in being watched, if that makes sense.
[3:22:05] Speaker 19: Like I don't know how to really explain that except
[3:22:09] Speaker 19: for my experience with it.
[3:22:13] Speaker 1: Watched by what.
[3:22:16] Speaker 5: Uh Okay, so.
[3:22:19] Speaker 19: Just to like start off like it might be a
[3:22:21] Speaker 19: waste of time, like even just being here because the
[3:22:23] Speaker 19: only evidence, Hi guy is my testimony.
[3:22:26] Speaker 3: Oh boy, Yeah, that was a good call.
[3:22:29] Speaker 2: Okay, that's a good call. So we appreciate you being here,
[3:22:33] Speaker 2: but we are going to move on because you know,
[3:22:35] Speaker 2: testimony is not particularly compelling to other.
[3:22:39] Speaker 1: People, right right, Thanks for coming though, Jarlam, Who's next?
[3:22:44] Speaker 5: Last?
[3:22:44] Speaker 1: He was nice and uh and honest about it.
[3:22:47] Speaker 2: Let me I appreciate that.
[3:22:49] Speaker 5: Oop.
[3:22:49] Speaker 1: I accidentally clicked the wrong person because it came in
[3:22:52] Speaker 1: as I was clicking and it moved with a goal post.
[3:22:54] Speaker 1: So it looks like now it's Veil. How you doing, Veil?
[3:22:59] Speaker 8: I'm doing all right?
[3:23:00] Speaker 4: Can you hear me?
[3:23:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, we can hear them. Yeah, Bill, are you at
[3:23:03] Speaker 3: least eighteen?
[3:23:03] Speaker 1: And do you believe in God?
[3:23:05] Speaker 13: I am thirty six, and I believe in intelligence. Wegence.
[3:23:15] Speaker 21: I believe you could attach labels to it if you chose,
[3:23:18] Speaker 21: if you needed to to understand it.
[3:23:20] Speaker 13: I think that's why we do attach labels to it,
[3:23:23] Speaker 13: because it's.
[3:23:23] Speaker 21: Kind of it's heavy to carry without some kind of
[3:23:27] Speaker 21: psychological mechanism.
[3:23:29] Speaker 1: Is the intelligence a creative entity that has thoughts and
[3:23:33] Speaker 1: feelings and created the world?
[3:23:36] Speaker 21: I think so, yes, I actually I do. I do
[3:23:41] Speaker 21: a lot of research on this very subject. I'm working
[3:23:45] Speaker 21: with things like convergence, emergence, gentiends, relativity. That's kind of
[3:23:53] Speaker 21: my my fun thing that I do when I'm not working.
[3:23:56] Speaker 21: So I work when I'm not working. And actually I
[3:24:02] Speaker 21: wanted to speak earlier. You guys were talking about law,
[3:24:05] Speaker 21: and you you then displayed law in its purest form
[3:24:09] Speaker 21: in a very beautiful way. You said, if you are
[3:24:12] Speaker 21: going to refuse, so, if you're going to present refusal
[3:24:16] Speaker 21: to answer a question, well, honestly.
[3:24:19] Speaker 1: We're not worried about the last guest. The last guest is.
[3:24:25] Speaker 13: It is my it is my substantiation. This is how
[3:24:29] Speaker 13: law works. You said, if the law law law, no
[3:24:35] Speaker 13: just law.
[3:24:37] Speaker 7: We're talking about law, simplicitor, We're talking we were talking
[3:24:41] Speaker 7: about the law of context, of judaism and Christianity.
[3:24:44] Speaker 21: Okay, so let's talk about the law in context of
[3:24:48] Speaker 21: Judaism and Christianity then, because it's all the same, yes.
[3:24:54] Speaker 7: All right, what books express the law in Judaism.
[3:25:00] Speaker 21: It depends on if you mean by like the Torah
[3:25:04] Speaker 21: like the old Covenant version of law, or if you
[3:25:07] Speaker 21: are expanding into Christianity into the New Covenant of law.
[3:25:12] Speaker 7: All right, what do you want to tell us about
[3:25:13] Speaker 7: the Torah?
[3:25:16] Speaker 13: I would say that the Torah was it was a
[3:25:19] Speaker 13: composition of al.
[3:25:22] Speaker 7: I didn't ask the right question, And then like, what
[3:25:25] Speaker 7: we why would we want to know anything about from
[3:25:27] Speaker 7: you about the Torah? Like what's relevant about it in
[3:25:31] Speaker 7: the context of what we're asking whether God is real
[3:25:33] Speaker 7: or not?
[3:25:34] Speaker 21: I would say I could best answer that question if
[3:25:37] Speaker 21: you simply asked me something you're curious about about the Torah,
[3:25:41] Speaker 21: something you don't believe, something that bothers you.
[3:25:43] Speaker 13: Do you accept the Torah?
[3:25:46] Speaker 21: I accept that the Torah is a representation of truth.
[3:25:50] Speaker 21: I don't accept the Torah is the truth?
[3:25:53] Speaker 7: All right? What what is something that you accept as
[3:25:57] Speaker 7: the truth? I'm not interested in representations of the truth.
[3:25:59] Speaker 13: What is what is something you expel the.
[3:26:03] Speaker 21: Whole composition of the conversation, I e. Religion and text
[3:26:07] Speaker 21: and law is a representation of the truth. It's kind
[3:26:13] Speaker 21: of a diffused thing where it's like some of this
[3:26:16] Speaker 21: is right and some of that is right, and you
[3:26:18] Speaker 21: have to you have to take them all, and you
[3:26:22] Speaker 21: have to take science and art. You have to take
[3:26:24] Speaker 21: all of it, and you have to find the green
[3:26:26] Speaker 21: line that can make it all the way through.
[3:26:28] Speaker 7: What do we disagree about?
[3:26:29] Speaker 13: What do we disagree about?
[3:26:30] Speaker 7: What do we disagree about?
[3:26:35] Speaker 21: I would say that you come more from a place
[3:26:37] Speaker 21: of there is no intelligence, and disorder is kind of
[3:26:41] Speaker 21: the functionality of everything.
[3:26:43] Speaker 7: And I will say that, Wait, wait, first of all,
[3:26:47] Speaker 7: I don't believe that as we believe that there's intelligence.
[3:26:50] Speaker 7: We agree on that. And I don't think everything is
[3:26:53] Speaker 7: I think some things are organized, some things are not organized.
[3:26:56] Speaker 7: So what is something that we disagree about?
[3:26:59] Speaker 13: So far we do not disagree?
[3:27:02] Speaker 21: All right, there it is, however, I would say, finished, No,
[3:27:10] Speaker 21: I don't that's where we disagree.
[3:27:12] Speaker 13: Thank you, we found it.
[3:27:13] Speaker 2: Okay. So do you think do you think that the
[3:27:15] Speaker 2: intelligence is responsible for creating or sustaining the universe?
[3:27:22] Speaker 21: Yes, and no, he made it to it's the law
[3:27:26] Speaker 21: is self propagated, so he kind.
[3:27:28] Speaker 2: Of made it the law intelligence Is he the law?
[3:27:33] Speaker 13: I would say, the law is intelligent?
[3:27:35] Speaker 2: Yes, what does that mean? Law? Is a law? Is
[3:27:40] Speaker 2: a rule or a description of regularity or something like that.
[3:27:45] Speaker 2: These are not things I would intelligence.
[3:27:47] Speaker 13: I would say that something more like this is what happened.
[3:27:51] Speaker 21: You could look at God as a as both a
[3:27:55] Speaker 21: single particle of matter and anti matter that at an
[3:28:00] Speaker 21: initial instant when God was sentient, when God was conscious,
[3:28:05] Speaker 21: that was in fact a bad thing to do, and
[3:28:08] Speaker 21: he knew it was a.
[3:28:08] Speaker 5: Bad thing to do.
[3:28:09] Speaker 13: So in essence God sinned.
[3:28:11] Speaker 21: That started everything zero turned into one, off, turned into on,
[3:28:17] Speaker 21: and then it went back off. So essence, in essence,
[3:28:23] Speaker 21: God exploded. As soon as he opened his eyes, he
[3:28:26] Speaker 21: blew up the meth lab on accident. As soon as
[3:28:28] Speaker 21: he opened his eyes. Done, God is dead. We are
[3:28:32] Speaker 21: the explosion in progress. Where the where the lights, where
[3:28:36] Speaker 21: the sounds?
[3:28:37] Speaker 13: Where the colors? If that makes sense. It's all over,
[3:28:41] Speaker 13: It's all over, and it's in progress.
[3:28:44] Speaker 2: So that sounds like you're just contradicting yourself. How so
[3:28:49] Speaker 2: well you said it it's over, which means that it's
[3:28:51] Speaker 2: not in progress. The progress has terminated, and that you've also.
[3:28:54] Speaker 13: Said it already in progress.
[3:28:56] Speaker 4: It already blew up.
[3:28:57] Speaker 21: It already blew up. If someone shoots a gun a
[3:29:00] Speaker 21: mile away, do you hear it? Is it still shooting?
[3:29:04] Speaker 21: That's what I'm saying. The gun's already fired. It's we're
[3:29:07] Speaker 21: just the effect of that. We're just the consequence of
[3:29:11] Speaker 21: the action. We're the reaction.
[3:29:13] Speaker 13: That's it's law. That's how law works.
[3:29:16] Speaker 2: It's physical. Is there anything that you could give us
[3:29:19] Speaker 2: that would justify this point of view? That you hold?
[3:29:22] Speaker 13: Lots and lots of things, but it would take lots
[3:29:24] Speaker 13: and lots of time. I've got math, i's got.
[3:29:28] Speaker 2: Okay, you make the best one. You got the best
[3:29:30] Speaker 2: piece of evidence you have that there was an intelligence
[3:29:32] Speaker 2: that exploded itself into us. I don't know why. Oh,
[3:29:46] Speaker 2: because he minimize the app. We can't hear you when
[3:29:48] Speaker 2: you minimize the app. By the way, by bad.
[3:29:53] Speaker 13: I'm looking for the best piece of evidence that I
[3:29:56] Speaker 13: could give you, and I believe it's.
[3:29:58] Speaker 2: Looking for it. Well. I have notes, oh okay, notes.
[3:30:04] Speaker 21: And pictures and files, and I'm like, well, what's the
[3:30:07] Speaker 21: best possible words I could use? So I'm looking for
[3:30:10] Speaker 21: those in my notes real quick, because I know what
[3:30:12] Speaker 21: they are. I just want to make sure I say
[3:30:13] Speaker 21: them right, if that makes sense.
[3:30:15] Speaker 1: I've got a document that our friend of mine let
[3:30:18] Speaker 1: me that might be helpful in your excursion. This is
[3:30:22] Speaker 1: the Quantum WU spreadsheet. We might be able to identify
[3:30:27] Speaker 1: where you fall in this quantum spectrum.
[3:30:32] Speaker 7: In all my life.
[3:30:35] Speaker 1: Carnage Asada, a friend of the community, made this for
[3:30:39] Speaker 1: the Quantum WU believers. We can even measure which cosmicity immediately.
[3:30:46] Speaker 1: I mean, it's an amazing piece of work. But anyways,
[3:30:49] Speaker 1: I think we could probably identify you at least as
[3:30:52] Speaker 1: Jupiter on the Quantum WU spreadsheet. How do you think
[3:30:55] Speaker 1: you're falling?
[3:30:57] Speaker 13: I actually it's very blurry. I cannot see it, but
[3:30:59] Speaker 13: I'm sure I'm on there somewhere.
[3:31:01] Speaker 4: We all.
[3:31:03] Speaker 2: Try not to be.
[3:31:05] Speaker 13: But here's the we all should try not to be,
[3:31:08] Speaker 13: but we're all there somewhere.
[3:31:10] Speaker 7: No, we're not all there.
[3:31:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, that might not be the case.
[3:31:13] Speaker 7: Well listen, maybe it's zero. Is there a zero percent
[3:31:16] Speaker 7: in which case I might be there?
[3:31:18] Speaker 21: Yes, there would be a zero in a one hundred
[3:31:20] Speaker 21: and everything in between, and that's how it works.
[3:31:26] Speaker 2: Well, anyway, you said that you were looking for the
[3:31:27] Speaker 2: best piece of evidence find anything yet.
[3:31:34] Speaker 21: Okay, so you can't even hear me when they slide
[3:31:36] Speaker 21: you up, Yes I did. Yeah, go ahead, trying to
[3:31:43] Speaker 21: find a way to be able to say it and
[3:31:45] Speaker 21: look at it. Because if I even slide up so
[3:31:47] Speaker 21: I can see both things, you can't hear me anymore.
[3:31:50] Speaker 2: And look at it, think about it, and then reopen
[3:31:54] Speaker 2: the TikTok app and then say the thing that you
[3:31:56] Speaker 2: were thinking about.
[3:32:12] Speaker 7: These people need to be studied. I mean, like, is
[3:32:14] Speaker 7: it that they like certain words or and then they
[3:32:18] Speaker 7: want to relate them or.
[3:32:20] Speaker 14: Well, creation creation when found in your home on the
[3:32:24] Speaker 14: quantum m let them go, Let him go, Let him
[3:32:27] Speaker 14: Cook's creation.
[3:32:32] Speaker 21: Creation when seen through the logic of deletion, cannot be passive.
[3:32:38] Speaker 13: But an act of will is the best way I
[3:32:40] Speaker 13: think I can say.
[3:32:41] Speaker 1: It creation through deletion. What that's a contradiction.
[3:32:47] Speaker 5: No, it's not.
[3:32:49] Speaker 21: It's staying that if if you create, you're gonna fuck up.
[3:32:52] Speaker 21: You're gonna have the delete key. You need the delete key.
[3:32:55] Speaker 13: It's a thing. If it goes on, it has to
[3:32:57] Speaker 13: go off. If it goes up, it has to come down.
[3:32:59] Speaker 13: If it goes down. So nobody's going to pick it
[3:33:00] Speaker 13: up again. It's a wave.
[3:33:04] Speaker 1: What do you think a wave is?
[3:33:06] Speaker 13: It depends on the context. Are we at the ocean
[3:33:09] Speaker 13: or are we in the studio?
[3:33:10] Speaker 2: What kind of what kind of are you referring to
[3:33:13] Speaker 2: the ocean? Studio?
[3:33:15] Speaker 21: Waves, waves, It's all the same waves. A wave is
[3:33:18] Speaker 21: a wave, is a wave is a wave. That's why
[3:33:20] Speaker 21: we call things waves.
[3:33:22] Speaker 1: Our creation's waves.
[3:33:25] Speaker 2: Look so generally, a good piece of evidence would be
[3:33:27] Speaker 2: something like I think X y Z is true because
[3:33:32] Speaker 2: and then after because you say something like this piece
[3:33:35] Speaker 2: of empirical data says so, or this deductive argument implies it,
[3:33:40] Speaker 2: or this piece of historically would indications.
[3:33:43] Speaker 21: We would have to go something we would have to
[3:33:46] Speaker 21: go through, like thirty six years of lived experience and
[3:33:48] Speaker 21: education in the last few months of my work. And
[3:33:51] Speaker 21: that's a lot of math in physics and science and
[3:33:53] Speaker 21: art and history and fels a lot.
[3:33:56] Speaker 1: I have a feeling the math doesn't add up, that
[3:33:59] Speaker 1: the math is math and.
[3:33:59] Speaker 3: For or anyone.
[3:34:00] Speaker 13: Absolutely.
[3:34:01] Speaker 16: Guy in the.
[3:34:04] Speaker 1: Checkout wrote the the math on the board behind you.
[3:34:09] Speaker 1: That's just not a pretty picture. This guy knows math,
[3:34:12] Speaker 1: and I can assure you isn't gonna math.
[3:34:15] Speaker 21: It does math and You're welcome to check out my
[3:34:18] Speaker 21: page anytime because I share my work.
[3:34:20] Speaker 13: That's what I would love help with my work thoughts,
[3:34:23] Speaker 13: especially if you know math. I could really use your.
[3:34:25] Speaker 21: Help, because what I'm finding is a lot of people
[3:34:28] Speaker 21: can explain and do math, they don't understand they're explaining
[3:34:31] Speaker 21: or doing. They just don't have the mathematical language to tell.
[3:34:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe they just said doctor blatche he knows
[3:34:39] Speaker 1: the formulas, he doesn't know what he's doing.
[3:34:41] Speaker 13: No, I'm saying that.
[3:34:42] Speaker 21: I'm saying that your average bear is accidentally doing bully
[3:34:45] Speaker 21: and algebra and they don't realize they're doing that, and
[3:34:47] Speaker 21: they couldn't tell me the algebra.
[3:34:50] Speaker 3: Yeah, what the fuck is algebra? That's a thing.
[3:34:56] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[3:34:57] Speaker 21: Yeah, So I'm telling you that the average bear is
[3:34:59] Speaker 21: probably accidentally doing that functionally and applying it in ways
[3:35:04] Speaker 21: that are causing effects. But they just don't know that
[3:35:06] Speaker 21: they are doing a bullyan process. They don't understand that.
[3:35:09] Speaker 21: That's they couldn't tell you that. They don't even know
[3:35:12] Speaker 21: what bullyon.
[3:35:12] Speaker 2: Aug It's not really relevant. I mean, like, look, so,
[3:35:16] Speaker 2: so the question is what's the piece of evidence, the
[3:35:18] Speaker 2: most compelling piece of evidence that you could offer, like,
[3:35:20] Speaker 2: for example, if I made the claim that, all right,
[3:35:24] Speaker 2: if I made the claim I got married to my wife,
[3:35:28] Speaker 2: then I could present you a piece of evidence like
[3:35:30] Speaker 2: here's a video of it happening.
[3:35:33] Speaker 13: Or I could iteration. Iteration proves the law.
[3:35:41] Speaker 1: Okay, so apparently I didn't hear anything Blitz said. But
[3:35:44] Speaker 1: apparently bullying logic or bullying in math is just logic
[3:35:47] Speaker 1: gaits for engineers.
[3:35:49] Speaker 2: So I see what you mean by Bulo related. Yeah,
[3:35:55] Speaker 2: is he out of the outcome?
[3:35:57] Speaker 1: Okay? No, I muted him because he was talking over
[3:35:59] Speaker 1: you and I couldn't hear what you said, and then
[3:36:01] Speaker 1: he had got a bunch of background noise which made
[3:36:03] Speaker 1: it even worse. But I'm hoping he's going to unmeet
[3:36:07] Speaker 1: himself here in a second.
[3:36:13] Speaker 13: All right, I'm sorry about that.
[3:36:15] Speaker 21: I just I realized, I guess what my proof is
[3:36:18] Speaker 21: that you might understand as a proof or understand what
[3:36:21] Speaker 21: I'm saying better than I do. Even iteration is a
[3:36:23] Speaker 21: proof of law. Recursion is is the race car. So
[3:36:27] Speaker 21: it's like a road and a race car, like the
[3:36:30] Speaker 21: environment that defines what the race car has to do
[3:36:33] Speaker 21: is law.
[3:36:34] Speaker 1: To be a proof of law. How is something a
[3:36:37] Speaker 1: proof of law.
[3:36:39] Speaker 2: Two plus any of this evidence for any of us.
[3:36:41] Speaker 21: Okay, because plus two plus two equals four. Can we
[3:36:45] Speaker 21: all agree on that?
[3:36:46] Speaker 2: Sure?
[3:36:47] Speaker 13: Okay?
[3:36:48] Speaker 21: Now that is a man made expression of a concept
[3:36:52] Speaker 21: that absolutely exists that we needed to express. Four was
[3:36:55] Speaker 21: four even if we never named it for even if
[3:36:58] Speaker 21: we never learned math, even if we never or made
[3:37:00] Speaker 21: it out of the stone age. For was for because
[3:37:03] Speaker 21: for that's an example of law proving itself. There's nothing
[3:37:07] Speaker 21: you can do about it.
[3:37:08] Speaker 13: You can't argue with me about it.
[3:37:09] Speaker 7: Okay, Therefore God, therefore God. But what's going on?
[3:37:13] Speaker 13: Therefore God and math is intelligent.
[3:37:15] Speaker 21: So in order for that to be the basic principle
[3:37:18] Speaker 21: of existence, that things just are what they are, there
[3:37:21] Speaker 21: has to be intelligence.
[3:37:22] Speaker 13: It had to be designed.
[3:37:23] Speaker 1: You can't take a part inclusion by no means follows
[3:37:27] Speaker 1: any of the vague premises that you laid out before you.
[3:37:30] Speaker 5: You can't.
[3:37:31] Speaker 21: You can't take a rolex apart and put it in
[3:37:33] Speaker 21: a bag and shake up the bag and get the
[3:37:35] Speaker 21: rolex back.
[3:37:36] Speaker 3: You have nobody said that that is the case. Clearly
[3:37:40] Speaker 3: you got concustomed. Could you happen?
[3:37:42] Speaker 13: Sometimes you put an electron in a bag, could you
[3:37:45] Speaker 13: take the.
[3:37:47] Speaker 8: Door.
[3:37:48] Speaker 2: The doorways kind of low sometimes like tall king's hit
[3:37:51] Speaker 2: their heads.
[3:37:53] Speaker 1: That's certainly the thing, and Veil listen. As fun as
[3:37:56] Speaker 1: this was, I don't think this conversation is going to
[3:38:00] Speaker 1: go anywhere, and we're basically out of time at this point.
[3:38:02] Speaker 1: We appreciate you coming up and showing your quantum wu
[3:38:05] Speaker 1: for us. You're definitely a one on the quantum solar
[3:38:09] Speaker 1: residence index, so big w for I don't know, free thinking.
[3:38:14] Speaker 1: Maybe is that the call that three free thought? Garba Gamen,
[3:38:21] Speaker 1: thank you for the five hour super chat. My friend says,
[3:38:23] Speaker 1: even lies are a representation of the truth because truth
[3:38:26] Speaker 1: about reality are required. Truths sorry, plural about reality are
[3:38:30] Speaker 1: required to a lie just semantic wo wo. Yeah, I
[3:38:35] Speaker 1: mean I certainly can see that this is something Jordan
[3:38:37] Speaker 1: Peterson would say. He would say the Bible is true
[3:38:40] Speaker 1: because it reveals truths about human nature, not that it's
[3:38:44] Speaker 1: factually true. You know that kind of nonsense. Hex Thank
[3:38:48] Speaker 1: you for the five dollars superchat, says this guy just
[3:38:51] Speaker 1: maxed out the quantum WOO meter. A wave is a wave?
[3:38:55] Speaker 1: Is a wave is a wave? Yes, yes, that is
[3:38:59] Speaker 1: indeed the case, and you can measure your wave on
[3:39:01] Speaker 1: the Mysterium solar residence index. You just have to know
[3:39:05] Speaker 1: how to do the measurement properly. And Judas, thank you
[3:39:07] Speaker 1: so much for the five dollars. Super just says up, up, down, down, left, right, left,
[3:39:12] Speaker 1: right will unlock bears doing linear algebra. I think you
[3:39:15] Speaker 1: need the BA start at the end of that to
[3:39:17] Speaker 1: finish the Konami cheat code. I could be wrong, but
[3:39:21] Speaker 1: certainly see I was a nerd, but long before you
[3:39:24] Speaker 1: guys were nerds. It's just my my nerd joke. You're
[3:39:28] Speaker 1: I know I was a nerd when you got stuffed
[3:39:31] Speaker 1: in lockers.
[3:39:34] Speaker 2: Imagine.
[3:39:35] Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for that, Judas, that that
[3:39:39] Speaker 1: is some certainly linear algebra. And with that, friends, thank
[3:39:43] Speaker 1: you so much for being here. We really appreciate all
[3:39:44] Speaker 1: the kindness and support. If you're not already following Danny,
[3:39:48] Speaker 1: and you're because there's like almost seven hundred people here
[3:39:50] Speaker 1: still follow Danny, I can't imagine you'd be following us
[3:39:53] Speaker 1: and not Danny yet. But please drop Danny a follow
[3:39:55] Speaker 1: on TikTok and on YouTube. And if you haven't seen
[3:39:58] Speaker 1: Danny Cook Jordan Peterson on ju believe by all means
[3:40:01] Speaker 1: it's it's the best clip of twenty twenty five. You'll
[3:40:04] Speaker 1: love it, So make sure you check out that clip
[3:40:07] Speaker 1: and friends, anything else to add.
[3:40:12] Speaker 2: I don't think I have anything going on identity, you
[3:40:13] Speaker 2: have anything going on this week?
[3:40:15] Speaker 7: Not really, but thanks for having me on. It was
[3:40:17] Speaker 7: fun and we love it.
[3:40:20] Speaker 8: Yeah.
[3:40:20] Speaker 7: Yeah, there are some good There are some good people.
[3:40:23] Speaker 7: I like talking to good people.
[3:40:24] Speaker 2: The first half was seemed like it was pretty good. Yeah,
[3:40:27] Speaker 2: the second half, well, we'll let the people. We'll let
[3:40:29] Speaker 2: the people decide in the comments.
[3:40:30] Speaker 7: But I just don't like a lot of people think I.
[3:40:33] Speaker 7: I mean, there might be really, of course, very good
[3:40:36] Speaker 7: political objection to Christianity, but when I do lives, I
[3:40:41] Speaker 7: want to talk to Christians because at least I can
[3:40:43] Speaker 7: hold them to a standard, like whether it be viable
[3:40:45] Speaker 7: or tradition. But these woo woo people, they literally it's
[3:40:48] Speaker 7: just like I can't. It's like trying to talk to them. Yeah,
[3:40:52] Speaker 7: it's like.
[3:40:52] Speaker 2: Talking to a like a avocado.
[3:40:56] Speaker 7: Yeah, that's the one good thing about Christians is that
[3:40:57] Speaker 7: you can hold them to a standard. Right with that,
[3:41:00] Speaker 7: You're right, Like I can't do it with these other people.
[3:41:03] Speaker 7: Like it's just like it's it's too much work.
[3:41:07] Speaker 3: I think it's very squirmy. Yeah yeah, well listen, friends,
[3:41:10] Speaker 3: thank you so much for being here.
[3:41:11] Speaker 1: Will be here again next week, same time, same place,
[3:41:15] Speaker 1: and we really appreciate all the support through super chats
[3:41:19] Speaker 1: and likes and shares. Thank you for smashing the like button,
[3:41:23] Speaker 1: and have a great rest of the rest of the weekend.

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.