# 2025-07-11 LIVE DEBATE \[God is Imaginary\]

An episode of [Deconstruction Zone](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1837730286), 28 Sep 2025, 5 h 03 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/67798400/2025_07_11_live_debate_god_is_imaginary.mp3

Live debating every theist on the planet. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Get Member Perks: https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone/join https://patreon.com/Deconstruction_Zone --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUPPORT THE STREAM: https://venmo.com/u/JHCOFFEEFUND https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/JHCOFFEEFUND https://cash.app/$JHCOFFEEFUND --------------------------------------------------------------------- SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS: https://www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction.zone https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone https://www.youtube.com/@DZDebates https://www.twitch.tv/deconstructionzone_ https://www.instagram.com/deconstruction_zone/ https://clapperapp.com/Justin_DZ https://x.com/Justin_DZ_ https://discord.com/invite/WmeAmrhkxZ https://linktr.ee/justin_____ Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/deconstruction-zone--6451535/support.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Is going to be live here in just a moment.
[0:02] Speaker 2: They go.
[0:02] Speaker 1: Both of the YouTube streams and the Facebook stream and
[0:06] Speaker 1: the Twitch stream should be live and red rock and roll,
[0:09] Speaker 1: and we're gonna hit the ground running. I've already got
[0:12] Speaker 1: a guest in the guest box, and I've got three
[0:15] Speaker 1: super chats, so let me grab these supers. We'll get
[0:18] Speaker 1: our first guest in here right away from the Christian Atheist.
[0:21] Speaker 1: Good to see your friend says when we're rock jokes
[0:24] Speaker 1: the funniest during the Stone Age. Obviously, obviously Doug is
[0:31] Speaker 1: the rock of ages. Rock hard for Doug, Absolutely rock
[0:34] Speaker 1: hard for Doug. I remember, Doug will rock your world.
[0:37] Speaker 1: Don't take them for granted. Friends and el teen, thank
[0:41] Speaker 1: you so much for the twenty dollars super chat, big
[0:43] Speaker 1: w Friends. A scientist number one. What should we call
[0:46] Speaker 1: this spider Scientist number two? Well, as you can see,
[0:50] Speaker 1: it has long legs, so how about we call it
[0:52] Speaker 1: long legs Scientists number one? Hmm, not kinky enough. Obviously
[0:58] Speaker 1: we need to add the daddy in there, or should
[1:01] Speaker 1: we call it Zaddy long legs? I never understood the
[1:06] Speaker 1: naming convention. I'm with you, so happy for the three
[1:09] Speaker 1: in a row. Three day in a row Stream, Well,
[1:11] Speaker 1: big w so happy you're here three days in a row.
[1:13] Speaker 1: And from our friend Games, Grand says, Hey, Justin was
[1:16] Speaker 1: wondering if you can tell us what you think the
[1:19] Speaker 1: reason for why Paul converted keep cooking Rockott for Doug
[1:22] Speaker 1: Well Games. I think he had a legitimate near death experience.
[1:27] Speaker 1: I think he fell off his horse, bumped his head,
[1:29] Speaker 1: had a vision, probably baked out of endless guilt for
[1:34] Speaker 1: what he was doing if he was actually indeed persecuting anyone,
[1:39] Speaker 1: And just like many people who have a life altering
[1:42] Speaker 1: near death experiences, he probably had one. You know, you
[1:45] Speaker 1: fall off your horse and you bump your head really hard,
[1:48] Speaker 1: some stuff's going to go down, you know what I mean?
[1:50] Speaker 1: All right, let me pull in our first guest. It's
[1:53] Speaker 1: going to be faith without works music. Welcome back, Dan.
[2:03] Speaker 1: Your microphone is muted right now? Can you hear me, budd?
[2:08] Speaker 1: Is your audio two days in a row? Is your
[2:12] Speaker 1: audio working?
[2:13] Speaker 3: Dan?
[2:13] Speaker 1: You're on the screen, buddy, Buddy, you're you're in the
[2:24] Speaker 1: hot seat right now?
[2:25] Speaker 2: Is it working?
[2:26] Speaker 1: Yeah? I can hear you.
[2:28] Speaker 2: Do you hear me? Should I meet you on the computer?
[2:32] Speaker 2: Is your audio working?
[2:33] Speaker 4: Dan?
[2:35] Speaker 1: Can you hear me. I can hear you, but it's
[2:37] Speaker 1: like super delayed. Are you using your computer or your phone?
[2:40] Speaker 3: This is my phone?
[2:43] Speaker 1: Yeah? Do you have five gene? What do you have
[2:46] Speaker 1: five gen?
[2:47] Speaker 4: Yeah?
[2:49] Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, so let's put it. I'm not working.
[2:57] Speaker 2: I can hear you, but it's like super delayed. Are
[2:59] Speaker 2: you using your computer?
[3:02] Speaker 1: Sorry, buddy, try again tomorrow. Yeah, bye, see buddy, Love
[3:08] Speaker 1: you one day. He'll make it into the guest box.
[3:12] Speaker 1: He used to have TikTok. He deleted it. Oops. All right,
[3:18] Speaker 1: looks like we got our friend. Meek is gonna come
[3:20] Speaker 1: up here for a second. The nightman come, says, Happy Friday. Justin,
[3:23] Speaker 1: put on the apron and crack open a cold one.
[3:25] Speaker 1: It's barbeac time. It sure is. The girl is fired up.
[3:29] Speaker 1: It's at four hundred degrees. We're ready to cook or
[3:32] Speaker 1: five hundreds of shit. I don't know. I forget. We're
[3:34] Speaker 1: at five hundred degrees. Theodin thank you so much for
[3:37] Speaker 1: the twenty dollars super chat friend, says Christians when you
[3:40] Speaker 1: ask them what God they believe in, I believe in
[3:43] Speaker 1: the God of the Bible, the God of Abraham, Isaac
[3:45] Speaker 1: and Jacob, father of Jesus, Mother of Dragons, Kings of
[3:49] Speaker 1: King of Anels, and the first Men, the unburnt. Actually,
[3:53] Speaker 1: you're not wrong. I'm always tickled by the amount of
[3:56] Speaker 1: people that say they believe in Jesus, but then they
[3:58] Speaker 1: have this crazy theological system that has nothing to do
[4:02] Speaker 1: with what Jesus caught. I mean, good and done for
[4:05] Speaker 1: thinking for themselves. But wow, man, you should read the
[4:08] Speaker 1: book if you're gonna claim the Jesus thing. Bertram, thank
[4:12] Speaker 1: you so much for the jellyfish, my friend. Thank you.
[4:14] Speaker 1: I really appreciate that you. Wanta says, Welcome to Doug's Pretzels.
[4:19] Speaker 1: How can we help you? We really should do a
[4:22] Speaker 1: background of just like a rebranded Antiennes pretzel booth. Have
[4:29] Speaker 1: so much fun, Robin says, Happy Friday, Well, shit, Happy
[4:33] Speaker 1: Friday to you, Robin. I really appreciate the super chat.
[4:35] Speaker 1: Thanks for being here, thanks for watching. And last one
[4:38] Speaker 1: from Straightforward said thank you for a third day in
[4:41] Speaker 1: a row? Rock hard for Doug. Well, I could be wrong,
[4:44] Speaker 1: is today? I think the day is my fourth day
[4:46] Speaker 1: in a row. I don't know. I lose track of
[4:48] Speaker 1: the days, but listen, I'm here and thank you so
[4:50] Speaker 1: much for being here, and let me grab this one.
[4:54] Speaker 1: We get Meek right in the box. John Warnock, thank
[4:56] Speaker 1: you so much for the super chat. Thank you big
[5:00] Speaker 1: we're contributing to the beer fund. Hell yeah, I really
[5:03] Speaker 1: appreciate that, John, big w that's going to go right
[5:06] Speaker 1: into the krackend fund. Thank you so much for supporting friend.
[5:09] Speaker 1: Let me get Meek into our guest box. How you doing, Meek?
[5:13] Speaker 2: Hey?
[5:14] Speaker 3: Can you hear me?
[5:15] Speaker 1: Yeah? Connections good?
[5:16] Speaker 2: Okay, good?
[5:17] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[5:17] Speaker 3: I think you know I'm a friendly.
[5:18] Speaker 1: I just want to be quick.
[5:21] Speaker 6: I didn't know if you saw this message I sent you.
[5:24] Speaker 6: It's this art project that they tried to square a circle.
[5:29] Speaker 6: You can look it up on Google it. It's just
[5:31] Speaker 6: called Squaring the Circle.
[5:32] Speaker 1: Interesting.
[5:34] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[5:34] Speaker 7: It's an art installation project where on one side you
[5:37] Speaker 7: look at it and it's a circle, and you walk
[5:39] Speaker 7: around and it's a square on the other side and
[5:41] Speaker 7: it's just one piece that like it's just like.
[5:45] Speaker 2: A perspective thing.
[5:46] Speaker 7: I just thought you think it might be interesting if
[5:48] Speaker 7: you google it, it'll be like a short video's.
[5:50] Speaker 1: Feod Yeah, Because if you have three three dimensions to
[5:54] Speaker 1: work with, you can theoretically create a square circle. You
[5:57] Speaker 1: just have to move around it. To make it change form. Right, Yeah,
[6:03] Speaker 1: I see it now. It's actually pretty neat.
[6:06] Speaker 3: Right.
[6:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good idea. You find it interesting interesting,
[6:11] Speaker 1: Thanks for sharing. I appreciate that.
[6:12] Speaker 2: Meke nod problem all right, man and big dups.
[6:15] Speaker 1: Good to see him. Man, you too, cheers. Have a
[6:18] Speaker 1: good Friday, you too.
[6:19] Speaker 3: Thanks.
[6:21] Speaker 1: It is Friday. There's a lot of people probably finishing
[6:23] Speaker 1: out the work week today, a lot of people. I
[6:26] Speaker 1: just want to kick back and chill. So we're gonna
[6:30] Speaker 1: do some some grill and chill. Let me get as
[6:35] Speaker 1: myth into our guest box and we'll get the conversation rolling.
[6:40] Speaker 1: How you doing asthmth, Hey, justin how's it going good?
[6:44] Speaker 1: How are you doing?
[6:46] Speaker 5: I'm doing well.
[6:47] Speaker 8: I just want to let you know I am a
[6:48] Speaker 8: friendly I just had a quick question for you, if
[6:50] Speaker 8: you had the time regarding the turn of the other
[6:54] Speaker 8: cheek rule from that Jesus was professing. My brother and
[6:58] Speaker 8: I had gotten into a conversation where God and I
[7:00] Speaker 8: was wondering if there was any limitations to be put
[7:04] Speaker 8: on this rule of turning the other cheek, because my
[7:06] Speaker 8: brother reached the determination that this is potentially limitless to
[7:10] Speaker 8: the extent that if someone were to try to say
[7:12] Speaker 8: on a live view that Jesus said that you ought
[7:15] Speaker 8: to just let that happen, and I wanted to know, like,
[7:17] Speaker 8: surely there's a limit on that.
[7:20] Speaker 1: Well, it's complicated because when Jesus spoke that verse, he
[7:24] Speaker 1: didn't put a limit on it, right, But if we
[7:26] Speaker 1: look at the rest of what Jesus says, it really
[7:29] Speaker 1: kind of only muddies the water. Like when he was
[7:31] Speaker 1: getting arrested, Peter took out his dagger and cut off
[7:34] Speaker 1: the ear of one of the centurion and Jesus said, no,
[7:38] Speaker 1: we don't do that. So that's one potential feather in
[7:41] Speaker 1: the cap for turning the cheek even you know, when
[7:45] Speaker 1: the real threat is afoot. Although you could then say, well,
[7:48] Speaker 1: he had to be arrested because he had to be crucified,
[7:51] Speaker 1: So that doesn't really solve the problem. There is the
[7:55] Speaker 1: post the like the post kingdom view, because he Us
[8:00] Speaker 1: talk about in Luke chapter sixteen or nineteen. You know,
[8:03] Speaker 1: when when he returns, he says, all those who didn't
[8:07] Speaker 1: want me to be king over them, take them before
[8:09] Speaker 1: me and slaughter them in my presence. So he's okay
[8:12] Speaker 1: with violence at some point. I don't know when like,
[8:16] Speaker 1: is he okay with violence only after he comes to
[8:19] Speaker 1: judge and before before then is there you can't do violence.
[8:24] Speaker 1: It's not entirely clear. So I don't I don't fully know,
[8:27] Speaker 1: because he says to forgive your enemies.
[8:31] Speaker 8: Yeah, I was curious about that as well. And the
[8:34] Speaker 8: conversation bled into this idea of the fact that Jesus
[8:38] Speaker 8: time and time again had professed this idea of like
[8:41] Speaker 8: there's glory or grace to be had in suffering, that.
[8:45] Speaker 1: This is a good thing.
[8:46] Speaker 8: And so my brother went to this so far as
[8:48] Speaker 8: to say that all suffering in all its forms should
[8:51] Speaker 8: be not only you know, allowed, but encouraged, you know,
[8:56] Speaker 8: so that if you were to, you know, turn the
[8:58] Speaker 8: corner and you.
[8:59] Speaker 1: See someone getting graped, for instance, you are.
[9:02] Speaker 8: Like obligated to let that happen because, according to you,
[9:05] Speaker 8: so that kind of suffering is good and you should
[9:07] Speaker 8: let that occur because stopping it would stop the glory
[9:10] Speaker 8: being done, which is like, its like obviously absurd, But
[9:13] Speaker 8: I wanted to know, like if like.
[9:16] Speaker 1: Surely it's like that that's crazy though, right. So that's
[9:19] Speaker 1: the thing is it's not clear, and this is the
[9:22] Speaker 1: problem you have, And I think the early Church agreed
[9:27] Speaker 1: that it was essentially limitless. That's why so many of
[9:29] Speaker 1: them are willing to become martyrs and willingly go to
[9:33] Speaker 1: their death. And even like the early Anabaptists were completely
[9:38] Speaker 1: willing to go to their death in the face of
[9:39] Speaker 1: all violence. That's why they're pascifists. Jesus does say something
[9:44] Speaker 1: really interesting in Luke as well. I guess today we're
[9:47] Speaker 1: doing Luke. But in Luke twenty two thirty five, when
[9:52] Speaker 1: he sends out the disciples, he says, when I sent
[9:56] Speaker 1: you out with a purse, bag or sandals, did you
[10:00] Speaker 1: lack anything? They said, no, not a thing, he said
[10:03] Speaker 1: to them. But now the one who has a purse
[10:06] Speaker 1: must take it, and likewise a bag, and the one
[10:09] Speaker 1: who has no sword must sell his cloak and buy one.
[10:13] Speaker 1: So it's not entirely clear, but this could be more
[10:18] Speaker 1: End Times teaching. He could be suggesting that the end
[10:20] Speaker 1: is finally here, and when we do get to the end,
[10:23] Speaker 1: there will be war. You will have to fight. So
[10:26] Speaker 1: it's the Jesus of the New Testament's not clear, and
[10:29] Speaker 1: that's why the Church has never really had much agreement
[10:34] Speaker 1: on basically any Christian teachings. Like they can't agree on salvation,
[10:38] Speaker 1: whether it's temporary permanent. They can't agree on whether or
[10:42] Speaker 1: not you have to do works or not do works.
[10:43] Speaker 1: They can't agree on whether or not baptism is required,
[10:47] Speaker 1: like they can't agree on shit because the Bible's not
[10:49] Speaker 1: actually clear. I completely agree.
[10:53] Speaker 8: I figured that if this were, if we really can
[10:56] Speaker 8: take a view that there is no limit to the
[10:58] Speaker 8: amount of suffering you can have, then this could be potentially,
[11:01] Speaker 8: with a little bit of tweaking, a very powerful argument
[11:04] Speaker 8: that I want to try to foster a little bit more.
[11:06] Speaker 8: But I just wanted to get your perspective on it.
[11:08] Speaker 8: But I appreciate all you had to say, and I'm
[11:11] Speaker 8: gonna let you get back to the debates and looking
[11:13] Speaker 8: forward to hearing the rest of it.
[11:14] Speaker 1: Sure thing, hit me up on the discord. I'll send you.
[11:17] Speaker 1: I'll send you some documentation that has the argumentation from
[11:21] Speaker 1: the early Anabaptists, because they did lay out a pretty
[11:25] Speaker 1: lengthy defense of pacifism within their movement, and I think
[11:29] Speaker 1: you might be interested to see it. I absolutely would be.
[11:33] Speaker 8: I'll be sure to join up the discord and see
[11:35] Speaker 8: what you have.
[11:36] Speaker 1: Here's good to hear from you. Appreciate you. Take care, Sarah, Well,
[11:42] Speaker 1: come in, Hello, how's it Gallin good? How you doing good?
[11:48] Speaker 9: Am I early? I feel like I'm early.
[11:50] Speaker 1: No, you came just on time. We just started twelve
[11:52] Speaker 1: minutes ago. So you're going to get our first guest.
[11:57] Speaker 1: I'm going to read six super chats and we're going
[11:59] Speaker 1: to get her guesting here helping. Mega says, praise Doug
[12:04] Speaker 1: and Sharon for a week of barbecues. Absolutely, praise Doug
[12:07] Speaker 1: and Sharon. I hope you get guys, get your fill.
[12:10] Speaker 1: And Yoda says, do the Big Three worship the same God? Jews,
[12:14] Speaker 1: Christians and Muslims. I've heard they say they do, but
[12:16] Speaker 1: when I asked the believer, they say no, well they
[12:18] Speaker 1: really don't. They think they do. They claim they do,
[12:21] Speaker 1: but when you ask them about the properties of that God,
[12:23] Speaker 1: they can't agree on the properties of the God. So no,
[12:26] Speaker 1: they like, just because you say that came from the
[12:29] Speaker 1: same historical background doesn't mean that you're worshiping the same God,
[12:33] Speaker 1: even if you want it to be the same. And cheese,
[12:35] Speaker 1: my friend, great to see you said, if someone brings
[12:37] Speaker 1: up the shroud of Turin, I hope to Doug not
[12:39] Speaker 1: please ask how we can know it is Jesus and
[12:42] Speaker 1: not Fred. Actually, just for you Cheese, if it comes
[12:45] Speaker 1: up today, I'll ask that exact question just for fun. Evan,
[12:50] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the nine ninety nine. Big
[12:52] Speaker 1: Buddy says, enjoy the live streams. Keep up the good work. Well,
[12:55] Speaker 1: thank you Evan for supporting the live stream. I really
[12:58] Speaker 1: appreciate that. And baz ku To says First King's eighteen
[13:01] Speaker 1: forty two Elijah went up to the top of Mount Caramel.
[13:04] Speaker 1: There he bowed himself down upon the earth and put
[13:06] Speaker 1: his face between his knees and promptly rolled all the
[13:09] Speaker 1: way back down the mountain. That's what happened, He just
[13:14] Speaker 1: rolled down. That's the thing that happens. Lou, thank you
[13:19] Speaker 1: so much for the nine nine to nine. Superchest says,
[13:21] Speaker 1: learning is one of my favorite things to do, and
[13:23] Speaker 1: there are you are one of my favorite channels. I've
[13:25] Speaker 1: been listening to you for several months. Teach me how
[13:28] Speaker 1: to Dougie. We're gonna try, friend, and thank you for
[13:30] Speaker 1: being here. We love learning too, and you picked a
[13:33] Speaker 1: good day to be here. Is we've got the Big
[13:34] Speaker 1: Brain joining us for the conversation. Team ADS says genuine question,
[13:41] Speaker 1: do most exorcists actually believe what they do is real?
[13:45] Speaker 1: What do they actually do at these extorcisms? A priest
[13:48] Speaker 1: once told my Catholic school he saw a woman vomit
[13:51] Speaker 1: nails thoughts. So, I've met people who have quote unquote
[13:54] Speaker 1: been at extorcisms or done extorcisms. They all think it's real.
[13:58] Speaker 1: They think they're doing a real thing. I've heard these
[14:02] Speaker 1: amazing stories. I heard a story once that like a
[14:05] Speaker 1: twelve year old girl picked up an overweight, like thirty
[14:08] Speaker 1: five year old man and throw him across the room.
[14:10] Speaker 1: But like, these are just stories. I've never heard, like,
[14:13] Speaker 1: never heard confirmation or proof of these. It's weird that
[14:15] Speaker 1: they don't film them and then publish the film to
[14:18] Speaker 1: demonstrate the truthfulness of their claims. Because if I was
[14:20] Speaker 1: an exorcist, I would film every single one and the
[14:23] Speaker 1: minute a twelve year old girl threw a grown ass
[14:25] Speaker 1: man across the room, I would publish that on the
[14:27] Speaker 1: internet so everyone could see that what I'm doing is real.
[14:30] Speaker 1: But weird that this never seems to happen. Now, welcome
[14:35] Speaker 1: in camera, guy, Hey, can you hear me justin? Yeah,
[14:39] Speaker 1: I can hear him.
[14:40] Speaker 10: Okay, cool, So I am I'm gonna take a lot
[14:43] Speaker 10: of your time. I am a follow a big fan
[14:45] Speaker 10: of both you and Sarah.
[14:48] Speaker 2: Saura.
[14:48] Speaker 10: I messaged you on one of your lives a few
[14:50] Speaker 10: weeks back saying that I followed you because Justin told
[14:53] Speaker 10: me to.
[14:57] Speaker 2: Justin I was referring to.
[15:00] Speaker 10: Anyway, So as as a devout fowler of Doug, I'm
[15:07] Speaker 10: a I'm a rookie. I'm a trainee as far as
[15:10] Speaker 10: learning and how to, not that I want to argue
[15:13] Speaker 10: a lot.
[15:14] Speaker 2: My thing is, I know that you hear.
[15:17] Speaker 10: Things over and over and over, and you even mention
[15:21] Speaker 10: that to the guests that everyone here knows where this
[15:26] Speaker 10: argument's going. And I just want to ask you if
[15:30] Speaker 10: just once in a while, you could let them sink
[15:33] Speaker 10: themselves so that we can all learn where the argument's going.
[15:37] Speaker 10: Because when when you tell us that you know all
[15:40] Speaker 10: nine hundred people out here know where this is going,
[15:43] Speaker 10: I can vouch for the trainees like myself that are
[15:45] Speaker 10: out here that I say, no, no, no, let them go.
[15:48] Speaker 10: I want to hear this.
[15:48] Speaker 5: I want to.
[15:49] Speaker 10: But I know for you it's frustrating, but it's a
[15:53] Speaker 10: fair point that that's my only my only.
[15:59] Speaker 2: Ask.
[16:00] Speaker 1: It's like the old thing, give them enough rope to
[16:03] Speaker 1: hang themselves with.
[16:05] Speaker 10: Yeah, but it's just wanting to hear them and just
[16:08] Speaker 10: hear where they're going and what you know, where that
[16:12] Speaker 10: fallacy stops. And I know you can cut to the chase.
[16:16] Speaker 5: You know.
[16:16] Speaker 10: I was an emergency of medicine for thirty years. So
[16:19] Speaker 10: someone comes in with a grade two ankle spring and
[16:22] Speaker 10: it's like, yeah, okay, there you.
[16:23] Speaker 2: Go, you know.
[16:24] Speaker 10: But so for trainee, you got to take time and
[16:28] Speaker 10: explain it to them, you know, if you have a
[16:30] Speaker 10: trainee with you. So yeah, so that's all.
[16:33] Speaker 5: I mean.
[16:34] Speaker 10: I love the channel and I'm a big fan of Dove.
[16:41] Speaker 10: I actually met my first young creationist three nights ago,
[16:45] Speaker 10: four nights ago, a sixty year old.
[16:46] Speaker 2: Woman and denies that.
[16:50] Speaker 10: And I don't know if you've heard about this, but
[16:52] Speaker 10: a fossil that was found, a full bodied fossil in
[16:55] Speaker 10: the Grand Canyon that was in all the layers. They
[16:59] Speaker 10: found it in several different layers. Have you ever heard
[17:02] Speaker 10: of that?
[17:02] Speaker 2: One?
[17:03] Speaker 1: Be news to me?
[17:05] Speaker 10: Yeah, okay, no, I didn't even entertain it. I was
[17:08] Speaker 10: just like, okay, what But anyway, thank you, Sora. I
[17:11] Speaker 10: love your channel too. I'll go back to listening and
[17:16] Speaker 10: smell the barbecue.
[17:18] Speaker 1: Here's buddy. Good to hear from you, to hear from you.
[17:21] Speaker 2: Thanks, all right?
[17:25] Speaker 1: I think monatic property was in the guests qu Next
[17:30] Speaker 1: we're going to bring in monatic property. It should be interesting.
[17:33] Speaker 1: How you been doing no monatic Yeah?
[17:37] Speaker 3: Hello?
[17:38] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[17:40] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[17:41] Speaker 11: Do you actively affirm the knock odd worldview?
[17:43] Speaker 1: Oh boy, here we go. We got a Darth Hawkin's acolyte.
[17:47] Speaker 2: Yes or no question?
[17:48] Speaker 11: I don't know answering the question.
[17:50] Speaker 1: I'll just meet you for now, so I'll explain the rules.
[17:53] Speaker 1: So the way this works is it's my live stream,
[17:55] Speaker 1: is not your live stream. You don't get to come
[17:57] Speaker 1: in and dictate how the conversation goes. I realize that
[18:00] Speaker 1: you'd like to do that because you don't want to
[18:01] Speaker 1: be held accountable for your beliefs. You want to run
[18:04] Speaker 1: your Darth talkin script. Your script doesn't work here. So
[18:08] Speaker 1: if you want to be an adult and have a conversation,
[18:09] Speaker 1: we can have a conversation. But what I'm not going
[18:12] Speaker 1: to do is sit here and watch you just crash
[18:14] Speaker 1: out on the Darth dalkin script. You're gonna have to
[18:16] Speaker 1: engage in some kind of adult dialogue. So if you're
[18:20] Speaker 1: capable of doing that, go ahead and unmeete yourself and
[18:22] Speaker 1: we'll start the dialogue.
[18:26] Speaker 11: Yes, sir, let's start the dialogue.
[18:28] Speaker 1: Cool. I assume you would believe in the Christian God?
[18:32] Speaker 11: Yes?
[18:33] Speaker 1: Cool? Are you over eighteen?
[18:35] Speaker 11: Yes?
[18:36] Speaker 1: Cool? What be a good evidence or a good argument
[18:39] Speaker 1: for the Christian God being real? And keep in mind
[18:41] Speaker 1: that presupposing he's real is not going to be a
[18:44] Speaker 1: winning argument here.
[18:46] Speaker 12: Yeah, a good argument would be a divine conceptualist argument.
[18:49] Speaker 12: So it'd be like a deductive argument that entails the
[18:51] Speaker 12: necessity of God's existence, and we'd be working under a
[18:54] Speaker 12: perfect being a theism framework.
[18:58] Speaker 2: Sure, it just means that we can give.
[18:59] Speaker 13: Me a promise giving that God is Yeah.
[19:01] Speaker 12: Premise one is that propositions are intrinsically intentional.
[19:05] Speaker 1: I think propositions have to be intentional, because, as far
[19:08] Speaker 1: as I'm aware of, only minds give propositions.
[19:12] Speaker 11: What do you think I mean by intentional?
[19:14] Speaker 2: There?
[19:15] Speaker 11: Just to be clear on purpose, that's not what that means.
[19:19] Speaker 12: So intentionality in philosophy is referring to teleological.
[19:22] Speaker 1: Yeah, monatic. No one gives a shit about philosophy words.
[19:25] Speaker 1: If you can't use real people words and you're in
[19:27] Speaker 1: the wrong place.
[19:29] Speaker 12: Well, you asked for an argument, and the only branch
[19:31] Speaker 12: that studies logic would be philosophy.
[19:34] Speaker 1: Okay, no one gives a shit. We're gonna move on.
[19:36] Speaker 1: We're not doing this today, all right, we'll get the
[19:39] Speaker 1: next one in. We're gonna do CMB TV.
[19:42] Speaker 9: I was already dying.
[19:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, though the entire audience was already wanting to throw
[19:47] Speaker 1: tomatoes at THEMS. So we're not gonna We're not We're
[19:50] Speaker 1: not doing this today. I'll never understand why people think
[19:56] Speaker 1: that they can walk into the space of of average
[20:01] Speaker 1: people and just start spitting words used irregularly and be
[20:06] Speaker 1: upset when we don't use them that way.
[20:09] Speaker 9: Well, I mean it's yeah, it explains why their intellect
[20:13] Speaker 9: is superior to ours.
[20:14] Speaker 1: Oh right, yes, yeah, I'm gonna next time I see
[20:17] Speaker 1: a Filbrel come in here, I'm just gonna use nothing
[20:19] Speaker 1: but engineering terms and make fun of him when he
[20:21] Speaker 1: doesn't know my engineering terms. Yea, how that goes over?
[20:28] Speaker 1: Well they dropped. We'll try again. Somebody will connect. We'll
[20:33] Speaker 1: see if we can get Joony in the box. Maybe Jonie.
[20:40] Speaker 1: There we go, We got a connection. How you doing, Joni?
[20:43] Speaker 14: How are you well?
[20:44] Speaker 2: About you.
[20:45] Speaker 1: Very good, Thank you for asking, Johnie, are at least eighteen?
[20:48] Speaker 1: And do you believe in some kind of a yeah?
[20:50] Speaker 14: Yeah, yeah, yes?
[20:52] Speaker 1: And which god do you believe? That you're a Muslim? Okay,
[20:55] Speaker 1: would be the most compelling evidence or argument for the
[20:57] Speaker 1: Muslim God being real.
[20:59] Speaker 14: Okay. So, so I think these people which try to
[21:04] Speaker 14: convince you with Bible or Quran versus are just like
[21:09] Speaker 14: talking to.
[21:10] Speaker 15: A world because to be a Christian or Muslim, first
[21:13] Speaker 15: you've got to be a theist.
[21:16] Speaker 1: I'm not that.
[21:20] Speaker 15: So you're an atheist, just to be clear. Yeah, okay,
[21:26] Speaker 15: So can I ask you something?
[21:29] Speaker 1: You can ask anything you want to. You're being plient
[21:31] Speaker 1: so far.
[21:32] Speaker 14: Okay, thanks. How do you think that life was created?
[21:37] Speaker 1: I don't think it was great. I think it evolved.
[21:41] Speaker 14: Yeah, but I mean the first organisms.
[21:44] Speaker 1: I think the first organisms are pretty well explained by
[21:47] Speaker 1: a biogenesis, and I think the building blocks for a
[21:50] Speaker 1: biogenesis are pretty well proven at this point. In fact,
[21:55] Speaker 1: we've got on two different meteors. We've found water, amino acids,
[22:02] Speaker 1: and a protein.
[22:05] Speaker 14: Yeah yeah, but I mean have we ever seen like
[22:10] Speaker 14: now anorganic material sorry turning into organic materials?
[22:17] Speaker 1: Well, it happens over the first of all, is rare,
[22:20] Speaker 1: and it wouldn't happen overnight. And the fact that it
[22:24] Speaker 1: could happen doesn't mean that it would live. Like even if, say,
[22:27] Speaker 1: inorganganic matter turned into living matter, there's no guarantee that
[22:31] Speaker 1: it would survive the current form of the world believe,
[22:34] Speaker 1: being that we live in a hostile environment full of
[22:37] Speaker 1: living things already. That really has nothing to do with
[22:43] Speaker 1: the validity. So just keep in mind that even if
[22:46] Speaker 1: you don't believe abiogenesis is true, it's still not an
[22:48] Speaker 1: argument for your god being real or any god being real.
[22:51] Speaker 1: You still have to provide an argument. So God of
[22:54] Speaker 1: the Gaps are not an argument.
[22:58] Speaker 14: Yeah, okay, So I'm at the to the theory of
[23:01] Speaker 14: being bang. Everyone uses it, so I'm gonna do it
[23:04] Speaker 14: fair enough. Okay, So what's you think before the before
[23:08] Speaker 14: the being bang, what happened?
[23:09] Speaker 1: Nothing happened with an endless cycle, infinite regress in the
[23:13] Speaker 1: past and an infinite future in the future.
[23:18] Speaker 14: Yeah, but like everything has a start. Nope, that's my belief,
[23:24] Speaker 14: I mean, I know, like it's not mine.
[23:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, why would I believe that everything that's here
[23:31] Speaker 1: was once nothing?
[23:35] Speaker 2: No?
[23:35] Speaker 14: I believe that it was compressed into a single point
[23:39] Speaker 14: and with infinite density.
[23:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if those if that's really the
[23:45] Speaker 1: modern conception that like the singularity, I do agree that
[23:48] Speaker 1: it was condensed and too much smaller state, but like
[23:52] Speaker 1: you get wildly differing views on what the small state is.
[23:56] Speaker 2: Like.
[23:56] Speaker 1: I've heard people say, well, it was the size of
[23:59] Speaker 1: a bowling ball. I've heard some people say it was
[24:01] Speaker 1: the size of like a pinhead. I've heard some people
[24:03] Speaker 1: say it was like the size of a small city.
[24:06] Speaker 1: The reality is, I don't think anyone knows we're working on.
[24:09] Speaker 1: I think the size of the whatever was here before
[24:13] Speaker 1: the expansion, as far as I can understand, is built
[24:16] Speaker 1: on a mathematical model, and I don't have the mathematic
[24:20] Speaker 1: skills to test the model to know whether or not
[24:23] Speaker 1: it works. As I can tell you is the universe
[24:25] Speaker 1: is one smaller.
[24:27] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[24:28] Speaker 14: But some people think which it was, it was nothing,
[24:32] Speaker 14: which is like really stupid.
[24:34] Speaker 1: I agree my opinion.
[24:36] Speaker 9: I don't know anyone everything came from nothing?
[24:40] Speaker 14: Neither why because how can it be like one of
[24:44] Speaker 14: the theories this energy can be created nor destroid just transformed.
[24:50] Speaker 1: Agree, So that's why it's eternal?
[24:52] Speaker 14: Yeah, And I okay, I came here like to argue
[25:01] Speaker 14: with you, but I'm more agreeing with you.
[25:04] Speaker 1: I mean, that's what that's that's what happens sometimes when
[25:07] Speaker 1: you're being honest.
[25:11] Speaker 14: So I'm gonna go now, all right, have.
[25:16] Speaker 1: A good one, Jonni, thanks for giving a shot. Well
[25:21] Speaker 1: he's really nice, wasn't he?
[25:22] Speaker 9: It was very nice.
[25:23] Speaker 1: Absolutely. We do have a couple of people that have
[25:27] Speaker 1: been waiting in TikTok. The the guest q and YouTube
[25:31] Speaker 1: is just now starting to populate. If you're on YouTube,
[25:34] Speaker 1: you don't have to join via TikTok. You can join
[25:36] Speaker 1: via YouTube obviously. You can use the link on the
[25:39] Speaker 1: screen here and here, or you can click the link
[25:43] Speaker 1: in the description of the video. I'm gonna grab us
[25:46] Speaker 1: a couple of super chats. We'll get our next guest
[25:48] Speaker 1: in here, which is CMBTV flex is Hey, Big Jay.
[25:52] Speaker 1: I haven't been called Big j very long time. Did
[25:58] Speaker 1: you get a book? I sent you that book? I did,
[26:00] Speaker 1: Flux and thank you so much. I already started reading it.
[26:03] Speaker 1: It's a great bedside book. So I really appreciate that,
[26:07] Speaker 1: Big Big w thank you so so much. And Sarah's
[26:10] Speaker 1: making fun of me now, both because somebody called me
[26:13] Speaker 1: big jay, and because somebody gifted me a book and
[26:17] Speaker 1: I'm a huge nerd, it's a laugh of endearment. I'll
[26:24] Speaker 1: take it. Von Doodle Sarah's laughing at me. It's okay,
[26:33] Speaker 1: you can make fun of me.
[26:35] Speaker 9: We're good, We're good.
[26:36] Speaker 2: It's fine, it's not.
[26:37] Speaker 1: Funny, says I've never believed in any gods, been an
[26:41] Speaker 1: atheist forever, but listening to your logical arguments about truth
[26:44] Speaker 1: and reality keeps me sane in an insane world. Von,
[26:47] Speaker 1: you were smarter than I was. I had to go
[26:49] Speaker 1: through all the mud to get to the atheism point,
[26:52] Speaker 1: like I had to be silly for a while. But
[26:56] Speaker 1: big w on you for not, you know, caving into
[26:59] Speaker 1: that nonsense and just using logic the whole way. Peter
[27:02] Speaker 1: says me, should go work on my book. Wait, Justin's live. Sorry, Peter.
[27:07] Speaker 1: You can do both, my friend, you can do both.
[27:09] Speaker 1: You'll get pockets. You'll get pockets. Bryce Ronie says, forgive
[27:13] Speaker 1: your enemies while I burn mine in hell. Isn't that
[27:15] Speaker 1: the craziest thing that people will say? Jesus is loving
[27:17] Speaker 1: and forgiving because he tells you to love your enemies.
[27:20] Speaker 1: But then he will for sure cut you up with
[27:22] Speaker 1: swords and burn you for eternity, and Hell's it's just
[27:26] Speaker 1: too uh, it's too loving for me. I don't know
[27:29] Speaker 1: if I'm ready for that. Len says, doesn't the part
[27:33] Speaker 1: in Exes twenty sixteen about the witnesses discount the entirety
[27:37] Speaker 1: of the Gospels. I don't think so. So okay, so Len,
[27:42] Speaker 1: what happens in the witnesses firm Exus is it's also
[27:46] Speaker 1: in Deuteronomy in order for any capital punishment to be
[27:49] Speaker 1: carried out, you need at least two witnesses, but it's
[27:54] Speaker 1: assumed that there were in fact witnesses. In fact, Jesus
[27:57] Speaker 1: went before a council among multiple witnesses, and then when
[28:00] Speaker 1: he gave the confession, they, you know, the high priest
[28:04] Speaker 1: tours cloak and said, you know, what more do we need?
[28:07] Speaker 1: You know, he's just a committed blasphemy right, the one
[28:11] Speaker 1: you're referring to in Exus twenty sixteen says you shall
[28:13] Speaker 1: not bear false witness against your neighbor. But I'm not
[28:16] Speaker 1: really sure what that has to do with what happened
[28:19] Speaker 1: to Jesus. I mean, I don't know what false witness
[28:26] Speaker 1: happened or who the neighbor was. But anyways, interesting question.
[28:31] Speaker 1: Let me grab through mercuper chests. We'll get our next one.
[28:33] Speaker 1: Next caller, and here's CMBTTV. Colin says, hunks from Scotland
[28:39] Speaker 1: loving the time for our lives, keep destroying their religious nonsense.
[28:43] Speaker 1: I'm going to try, Colin. I really am in big
[28:45] Speaker 1: w over in Scotland. Hope you're doing well. Team Has says,
[28:48] Speaker 1: when we say the Bible condone slavery, isn't that just
[28:51] Speaker 1: for the Jewish people, not necessarily everyone else, since those
[28:53] Speaker 1: laws were for God's people. Well not really, because if
[28:56] Speaker 1: you just get rid of the law, that doesn't get
[28:57] Speaker 1: you to the end of slavery. That just means you
[28:59] Speaker 1: can have as many slaves since you want. There's no
[29:01] Speaker 1: limitation anymore. The slavery law wasn't the thing that was
[29:05] Speaker 1: allowing them solely to do slavery. They wanted to do slavery.
[29:08] Speaker 1: The law just said you were allowed to, so nothing
[29:11] Speaker 1: says you can't. And last one from our friend Renee
[29:14] Speaker 1: a Grenade, Renee the Renegade, Sorry about that, Thank you
[29:18] Speaker 1: for the ten supergis. It's Happy Friday. Justin My coworker
[29:21] Speaker 1: claims that a rabbi told him at Levedigus eighteen twenty two,
[29:25] Speaker 1: was about a man with a boy, not a man
[29:27] Speaker 1: with a man. Is there any translation that says this
[29:30] Speaker 1: or is it total bullshit? It's total bullshit. So it
[29:32] Speaker 1: doesn't say a man with a child or a man
[29:35] Speaker 1: with a boy. It says a man and a male.
[29:40] Speaker 1: Is a claire in Hebrew just means a boy, a
[29:43] Speaker 1: male of any type. So even like the goats and
[29:46] Speaker 1: the animals, when they slaughter the animals and one of
[29:49] Speaker 1: them is a male, just refers to him as is
[29:51] Speaker 1: a care It's just a male, that's all it is.
[29:54] Speaker 1: I understand that some people would want to use the
[29:57] Speaker 1: indefinite nature of that word and say, well, it's obvious
[29:59] Speaker 1: it's a different word, so it can't be a man
[30:01] Speaker 1: with a man. But the fact of the matter is
[30:04] Speaker 1: it could have said boy. It could have said na
[30:05] Speaker 1: r No r is the word you want for boy.
[30:08] Speaker 1: It doesn't chop in the text. So, yeah, your rabbi
[30:10] Speaker 1: is lying to your friend. I get it, though, if
[30:13] Speaker 1: you're a rabbi, you got to justify that shit, like
[30:15] Speaker 1: you got to find a way this is I think
[30:21] Speaker 1: this is the second time trying to get CMBTV in here.
[30:23] Speaker 1: I don't know if they connected the first time. Cmb TV.
[30:26] Speaker 1: How you doing? You're muted CM VIP here by accident?
[30:40] Speaker 1: What's happening right now?
[30:42] Speaker 9: The CM is muted, so I don't know.
[30:46] Speaker 1: I think it's kind of bad connection. All right, CM,
[30:49] Speaker 1: you got a really bad connection, which is probably why
[30:51] Speaker 1: you didn't connect the first time. You're up here. You
[30:53] Speaker 1: got to connect to your WiFi and try again. Okay,
[30:57] Speaker 1: come on back and give it, give it another try.
[30:59] Speaker 16: Okay?
[31:00] Speaker 1: Are we going to get Rami for absolute truth? See
[31:05] Speaker 1: how this works?
[31:08] Speaker 2: Are you romy good?
[31:11] Speaker 1: Rammi? Are you eighteen? And do you believe in some
[31:14] Speaker 1: kind of a god?
[31:16] Speaker 2: I am sixty five. I believe in God. I believe
[31:23] Speaker 2: that my folk are believed.
[31:26] Speaker 17: Not necessarily. They did it for the right things. They
[31:30] Speaker 17: did it to the law. They brought the law so
[31:36] Speaker 17: the people that they have they can live. The tank commandment?
[31:43] Speaker 1: Are you a Jew?
[31:43] Speaker 18: But that was twenty five hundred years ago, three thousand
[31:47] Speaker 18: years ago, had nothing to do with today. If the god,
[31:51] Speaker 18: if you want to print something in color in a
[31:54] Speaker 18: black and white printer, you.
[31:55] Speaker 1: Can't, Rami?
[31:57] Speaker 2: Are you Jewish? Yeah? Cluse?
[32:00] Speaker 1: Okay? Do you believe in the story as it's told,
[32:06] Speaker 1: Like when you hear the story of Moses and the
[32:08] Speaker 1: turn commandments and the the other laws, it doesn't matter.
[32:11] Speaker 2: What matters is what it means, what do you get
[32:14] Speaker 2: out of them?
[32:14] Speaker 1: I agree, I think you could read it either way.
[32:17] Speaker 1: Hold On, Robby, Robny, hold on, I'm trying to figure
[32:19] Speaker 1: out what you believe. Okay. So do you believe that
[32:23] Speaker 1: it was literal like it really happened in history, or
[32:25] Speaker 1: do you believe that it's just there for theological and
[32:28] Speaker 1: educational purposes?
[32:30] Speaker 3: Educational purpose?
[32:32] Speaker 1: Okay, that there we go. Do you believe that the
[32:35] Speaker 1: laws are still binding? It sounds like you don't.
[32:40] Speaker 19: I just said the color printer. You don't have a
[32:43] Speaker 19: color print that you have a black and white and
[32:45] Speaker 19: you want to print color. You can't now how you're
[32:48] Speaker 19: going to print a three D color and a black
[32:50] Speaker 19: and white printer.
[32:51] Speaker 1: Okay, So you don't think the laws of Moses are
[32:53] Speaker 1: still binding.
[32:53] Speaker 19: You're very smart. You catch on what I'm saying. Thank God,
[32:56] Speaker 19: I don't have to explain. You're very free, You're extreme
[33:00] Speaker 19: may be smart. So when I say I opened my
[33:03] Speaker 19: mouth and you know what I was saying.
[33:04] Speaker 1: Okay, so you believe in the Jewish guy, but you don't.
[33:08] Speaker 1: You don't believe in the in a fundamentalist view, you
[33:13] Speaker 1: think a lot of the Old Testament isn't literally evolved.
[33:17] Speaker 20: If it has evolved, Actually the Jewish Jesus was a Jew.
[33:21] Speaker 20: He was a democratic kind of like liberal, and then
[33:25] Speaker 20: what they did to is just like October seventh.
[33:30] Speaker 1: So Ronnie, let's talk about whatever God you believe in.
[33:33] Speaker 1: So I assume you believe in ad an Eye right rather.
[33:36] Speaker 3: My forefathers God, that was my forefathers.
[33:39] Speaker 2: I believe in this, Okay?
[33:40] Speaker 1: Do you do you use add an Eye or Hashem
[33:43] Speaker 1: or yahweh? What do you use?
[33:45] Speaker 2: Why? Yeah? Well I don't.
[33:47] Speaker 1: I I don't know.
[33:50] Speaker 2: Is the name you know?
[33:51] Speaker 1: I know just means the name yep?
[33:53] Speaker 2: And you know everything I can't hear you. Yeah, okay.
[33:57] Speaker 1: So what would be a good evidence or a good
[34:00] Speaker 1: argument for this God being real?
[34:02] Speaker 2: My soul? My ne fish, I have a fish a soul.
[34:07] Speaker 2: So you you.
[34:08] Speaker 1: You do have life?
[34:11] Speaker 14: Life?
[34:13] Speaker 2: Okay, now for a five year old, if you want
[34:16] Speaker 2: to explain what life is? All right?
[34:18] Speaker 1: So he's using a Hebrew word. That fish is used
[34:21] Speaker 1: in the hebrewscriptures to refer to the soul of a person,
[34:24] Speaker 1: but typically it also refers to the life force of
[34:27] Speaker 1: a person. So, but we agree that you are alive,
[34:29] Speaker 1: and I'm alive, and Sarah's alive. We all we all
[34:31] Speaker 1: agree on that.
[34:33] Speaker 19: What I'm trying to do, five year old, do you
[34:35] Speaker 19: want to do science a big bang theory.
[34:37] Speaker 9: With the old body?
[34:40] Speaker 1: Hold on, I'm trying to figure out why you think
[34:43] Speaker 1: that this is not just a product of the brain.
[34:47] Speaker 16: What is not the.
[34:48] Speaker 3: Product of the brain? Of course brain is at all.
[34:51] Speaker 16: We all we have brain.
[34:54] Speaker 9: Give us some evidence that you have a soul I live.
[34:59] Speaker 9: That's just being a lot.
[35:00] Speaker 2: I believe. I believe I have a soul.
[35:03] Speaker 21: I have a right.
[35:04] Speaker 9: So you don't have any evidence that you.
[35:06] Speaker 2: Have a soul. Do you have evidence you exist?
[35:10] Speaker 9: Yeah, that's different.
[35:12] Speaker 2: What's the difference.
[35:15] Speaker 9: You can talk to me. I am physical, I am auditory, imagination.
[35:22] Speaker 2: Everything. We are all energy.
[35:23] Speaker 5: Nothing.
[35:24] Speaker 2: If I go with speed up the light, I can
[35:26] Speaker 2: I can go through you.
[35:27] Speaker 3: Right, we all made of energy. There's nothing exists.
[35:31] Speaker 9: Okay, so you're just imagine.
[35:35] Speaker 1: Given to tell them to a ten year old me,
[35:37] Speaker 1: did you say nothing exists to you? Did you just
[35:40] Speaker 1: say nothing exists.
[35:42] Speaker 3: Yeah, we are all energy.
[35:43] Speaker 18: Right, if you want to look at it that way,
[35:45] Speaker 18: if you go to speed up the light or whatever,
[35:48] Speaker 18: the energy I can pass through you.
[35:50] Speaker 1: Right, So then God doesn't exist.
[35:54] Speaker 2: No, I'm just saying that if you want to look
[35:56] Speaker 2: at it sciencely by science.
[35:59] Speaker 1: That's so I'm asking what you believe, right, So we're
[36:05] Speaker 1: asking for the argument that would end with human beings
[36:09] Speaker 1: having souls. Do you have any evidence of that?
[36:14] Speaker 9: Yes, I have a soul.
[36:15] Speaker 2: What do you mean I'm here, I am I can't.
[36:21] Speaker 9: Have a soul. That's what Gus said. Wait, can you
[36:25] Speaker 9: prove the first one?
[36:27] Speaker 2: They started it? It doesn't mean that they want to
[36:30] Speaker 2: exclude anyone. They didn't exclude anyone.
[36:36] Speaker 1: Up Again, I know you're excited, but you got to
[36:40] Speaker 1: take a deep breath. Sarah's trying to ask you questions.
[36:43] Speaker 1: She's trying to have dialogue, and you can't have dialogue
[36:46] Speaker 1: if you just endlessly talk like you have to at
[36:49] Speaker 1: some point you have to engage in dialogue and that
[36:51] Speaker 1: requires a little bit of back and forth. So we
[36:54] Speaker 1: know that you believe that you have a soul. We
[36:57] Speaker 1: get that part. We're trying to figure out why, what's
[36:59] Speaker 1: the evidence or the argument that would lead someone to
[37:02] Speaker 1: believe that you have a soul. That's what we want
[37:05] Speaker 1: to know. Let's see if this works. Does he know?
[37:17] Speaker 1: He probably doesn't. I don't think he's been on TikTok
[37:21] Speaker 1: very much.
[37:23] Speaker 2: I'm sorry I can't hear you.
[37:25] Speaker 1: Welcome back. Okay. So we're trying to have a little
[37:28] Speaker 1: bit of dialogue here, and we know that you believe
[37:31] Speaker 1: that you have a soul. We're trying to figure out
[37:33] Speaker 1: what the evidence is that anybody has a soul.
[37:38] Speaker 2: I don't have to bring evidence. I want to have
[37:42] Speaker 2: an evidence.
[37:45] Speaker 13: If I don't, you.
[37:47] Speaker 1: Want me to give you.
[37:49] Speaker 19: I live, I spoke, I'm talking. I have a soul,
[37:53] Speaker 19: I have a life.
[37:55] Speaker 5: You here?
[37:58] Speaker 16: All right?
[37:59] Speaker 1: Well listen, I've been delightful talking to you. I think
[38:01] Speaker 1: you might be in the wrong live stream, but thanks
[38:04] Speaker 1: for coming up. We're gonna move on to the next guest.
[38:06] Speaker 2: Okay, So I won the case. No you didn't.
[38:09] Speaker 1: You didn't win the case. You literally forfeited the case.
[38:13] Speaker 9: Why would he have to bring evidence?
[38:16] Speaker 1: You imagine go into court and judge is like present
[38:18] Speaker 1: the case, and he's like to present a case.
[38:22] Speaker 9: How do you ask for? Good? Lord?
[38:26] Speaker 1: People are wild if you're watching on YouTube, YouTube can
[38:31] Speaker 1: join in the conversation. There's a link in the description
[38:35] Speaker 1: of the video and it's on the screen. You can
[38:38] Speaker 1: join up. Let me grab our next guest. It looks
[38:42] Speaker 1: like it's gonna be Maren, Maren or Marin. See if
[38:49] Speaker 1: they can connect.
[38:52] Speaker 9: Me.
[38:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, I can.
[38:54] Speaker 16: Let's say hi to my friend leaving faith? Am I
[38:59] Speaker 16: correct teach my comments a few times?
[39:03] Speaker 9: I recognize your name? Yeah?
[39:05] Speaker 1: Okay, is it.
[39:09] Speaker 2: Comments?
[39:10] Speaker 16: Marin?
[39:10] Speaker 1: I'm from Croatia, Marin. Okay, Marin. Do you believe in
[39:14] Speaker 1: some kind of a god?
[39:16] Speaker 16: Yes? Absolutely?
[39:18] Speaker 1: And which god?
[39:19] Speaker 16: Can I ask you you? I was listening to a
[39:22] Speaker 16: few conversations before first. Sorry for my English. I not
[39:27] Speaker 16: use it frequently, so it's not perfect, but I know
[39:30] Speaker 16: to speak. You said that universe was condensed into was
[39:37] Speaker 16: smaller into some doto or something. I didn't know, but
[39:41] Speaker 16: something like in that area.
[39:44] Speaker 1: I said. Others say that there are scientists and cosmologists
[39:48] Speaker 1: who claim that the universe was once as small as
[39:52] Speaker 1: like a beach ball, and I personally don't know how
[39:56] Speaker 1: to verify that claim, but I do know that if
[39:58] Speaker 1: you ask a scientist, they all have a different answer
[40:00] Speaker 1: as to how small the universe.
[40:02] Speaker 16: Was, okay, let's say it was volleyball. Was any intelligence
[40:10] Speaker 16: in that volleyball?
[40:11] Speaker 1: I don't think so.
[40:12] Speaker 16: No, okay? Then how intelligence rose from that volleyball eventually.
[40:20] Speaker 1: One step at a time via evolution.
[40:24] Speaker 16: But how you're just.
[40:27] Speaker 1: Okay, So we'll start small. Do you know what a
[40:30] Speaker 1: venus fly trap is?
[40:32] Speaker 16: What can you repeat?
[40:34] Speaker 1: Do you know what a venus fly trap is? I
[40:38] Speaker 1: don't think so, okay, So insteade of the venus fly trap,
[40:42] Speaker 1: it's like a little plant that's got a mouth that
[40:44] Speaker 1: closes and opens, and when a fly lands in it,
[40:48] Speaker 1: it will rub on the sides of the plant, and
[40:51] Speaker 1: if it hits enough of the little hairs on the
[40:53] Speaker 1: inside of the plant, the plant will close and then
[40:56] Speaker 1: it will excrete some juices that will break down the
[41:00] Speaker 1: fly and it will consume. Oh you got some just
[41:03] Speaker 1: like that?
[41:03] Speaker 16: I have one.
[41:06] Speaker 1: We've got.
[41:07] Speaker 9: Those are the little things.
[41:09] Speaker 1: Then they closed, Yeah, they open and closed when flies land,
[41:12] Speaker 1: And now I want one. I'm fee a little bit jealous.
[41:16] Speaker 1: So all all of this behavior, though it looks like
[41:20] Speaker 1: it's intelligent, it looks like it's doing the thing because
[41:23] Speaker 1: it's on purpose, and it's got like a thinking brain.
[41:27] Speaker 1: The reality is that, as far as we can tell,
[41:29] Speaker 1: it doesn't really have any brain. It's developed one impulse,
[41:33] Speaker 1: reflect a reflex at a time, just like the hydrangias
[41:38] Speaker 1: in my garden bed. When the sun's out and it's
[41:41] Speaker 1: too hot, the leaves will actually turn over, uh you know, uh,
[41:46] Speaker 1: and and wilt a little bit as to not get burnt.
[41:49] Speaker 1: So but you build on that, right, a couple of
[41:52] Speaker 1: billion years of learning, one one reflects after another. Pretty
[41:57] Speaker 1: soon you're a pretty powerful heating machine.
[42:02] Speaker 16: But yes, but you are not explaining how that first
[42:06] Speaker 16: let's say, sign of intelligence came to existence.
[42:10] Speaker 1: Well, in first it wasn't called intelligence. Intelligence is when
[42:14] Speaker 1: you have a whole bunch of processes going on at once.
[42:20] Speaker 1: It started out with one process, and then two processes
[42:22] Speaker 1: and then three.
[42:24] Speaker 16: Question is sorry for interrupting by questions how that first
[42:28] Speaker 16: process started.
[42:31] Speaker 1: It's a chemical reaction. How the chemical reaction? Do you
[42:36] Speaker 1: know how chemicals work?
[42:38] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[42:38] Speaker 16: But the question you can go go step back, how
[42:41] Speaker 16: that chemical reaction happened? Why chemicals even exist?
[42:45] Speaker 1: Because because chemicals do exist, and when they come into
[42:49] Speaker 1: contact with other chemicals sometimes they react because they're not stable. Yeah,
[42:54] Speaker 1: but why because not all chemicals are stable, some of
[42:58] Speaker 1: them have an imbalance of protons and neutrons and other
[43:01] Speaker 1: things are protons and electrons and whatnot.
[43:05] Speaker 16: Yes, but I can say the same argument for to
[43:10] Speaker 16: prove creator. Look, there is creator, and proof is these
[43:14] Speaker 16: chemicals that can create, can react with these chemicals and
[43:18] Speaker 16: this and that.
[43:19] Speaker 1: But we can do it in a laboratory, like we
[43:21] Speaker 1: can do the chemical reactions in a laboratory and verify
[43:24] Speaker 1: that it works.
[43:26] Speaker 16: Yes, but you don't explain the origin of those chemicals
[43:29] Speaker 16: and why the chemicals have those properties and all that stuff.
[43:33] Speaker 1: They have their properties because they are what they are,
[43:37] Speaker 1: the same reason why your God has its properties.
[43:42] Speaker 16: Saying it is what it is is not scientific explanation.
[43:46] Speaker 1: Well, we know for a fact that it is what
[43:47] Speaker 1: it is. We know for a fact that these things
[43:49] Speaker 1: do exist. What we don't know is that your God exists.
[43:53] Speaker 16: You also don't know how those chemicals exist and why.
[44:00] Speaker 1: Have In my worldview, they existed forever. So in my
[44:03] Speaker 1: world view, the fundamental particles that make up the universe
[44:06] Speaker 1: always existed. I see no reason to believe that nothing
[44:10] Speaker 1: gave rise to something, or that a magic fairy gave
[44:13] Speaker 1: rise to something.
[44:14] Speaker 16: Okay, you believe that universe always existed created.
[44:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe. I believe something always existed, even if
[44:23] Speaker 1: it's something as small as a quantum field.
[44:27] Speaker 16: Okay, but you have problem with God just existing.
[44:30] Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with God existing. I see
[44:32] Speaker 1: no evidence for it.
[44:35] Speaker 16: But what wouldn't intelligent universe, whatever however it is, this
[44:43] Speaker 16: it's not perfect, would give clues that God, unless you
[44:50] Speaker 16: do not even say God some intelligence created it.
[44:54] Speaker 1: I don't think the universe was intelligently created. And I
[44:57] Speaker 1: think looking at the Earth as the prime example. If
[44:59] Speaker 1: some think created the earth, it's clearly an evil being.
[45:03] Speaker 1: Why would you create the earth so that it would
[45:05] Speaker 1: have natural disasters that randomly kill one hundred thousand people
[45:08] Speaker 1: a year?
[45:11] Speaker 2: Do you know?
[45:12] Speaker 16: You probably know why we was kicked out from according
[45:17] Speaker 16: to the Bible. I'm not trying to force you into anything,
[45:20] Speaker 16: but according to the Bible, we live for first in
[45:24] Speaker 16: perfect conditions. There was no earthquakes, no disease that whatsoever.
[45:30] Speaker 1: That doesn't answer the question. That doesn't answer why God
[45:33] Speaker 1: created natural disasters? Why do you do it?
[45:37] Speaker 16: That is why I said that, because we were kicked
[45:40] Speaker 16: out from the garden and went into let's say sorry.
[45:47] Speaker 16: From English. It's a little bit complicated even for English
[45:51] Speaker 16: speaking people to explain it all. How will I stay?
[45:58] Speaker 9: I mean, I think we're familiar with the idea that
[46:01] Speaker 9: you think it's because of sin that we have natural disasters.
[46:05] Speaker 9: But your it sounds like your primary argument is that
[46:10] Speaker 9: the world is big and complicated and we don't understand
[46:15] Speaker 9: where everything came from. Therefore it has to be God.
[46:20] Speaker 16: No, I would say, he says it has to be God.
[46:23] Speaker 16: But I would say, if God exists, wouldn't we see
[46:27] Speaker 16: signs of intelligence in design.
[46:29] Speaker 1: No, I don't think it's requirement.
[46:32] Speaker 16: And then, and then, in your opinion, if God exists existed.
[46:37] Speaker 1: I'm saying, if God exists, we would see a world
[46:39] Speaker 1: that didn't cause unnecessary suffering. What we see in a
[46:42] Speaker 1: world is unnecessary suffering. Because you believe that your God
[46:46] Speaker 1: is all good and he's all powerful and all knowing,
[46:48] Speaker 1: which means he wouldn't have created a world that included
[46:51] Speaker 1: natural disasters.
[46:53] Speaker 16: That is why I say a story from the God.
[46:57] Speaker 1: You know, you don't actually need to tell the story
[47:00] Speaker 1: all we all know it. Just give us the answer to.
[47:01] Speaker 16: The problem I'm trying. Let me say, well, again, Mary.
[47:09] Speaker 1: We all know the story. You don't have to retell
[47:11] Speaker 1: us the story.
[47:12] Speaker 16: I think you don't know.
[47:13] Speaker 1: We do know. We literally do know. Mayor we do Marion, stop,
[47:18] Speaker 1: we know the story. Don't tell us the story. Just
[47:20] Speaker 1: give us the answer. Why did God create natural disasters?
[47:23] Speaker 16: Trying? If you don't, if you don't want to, you
[47:25] Speaker 16: can't kick me out.
[47:26] Speaker 1: Mary. It's just an answer. We don't need a story.
[47:29] Speaker 16: We can I tell it in one minute.
[47:31] Speaker 1: You can tell it in one sentence.
[47:34] Speaker 16: You want to explain it.
[47:36] Speaker 1: I don't want an explanation. I just want an answer.
[47:40] Speaker 1: Why Why did God create natural disasters? It's a one
[47:43] Speaker 1: sentence answer, So in.
[47:46] Speaker 16: Garden, can I do it?
[47:49] Speaker 9: I know the answer, Sarah.
[47:51] Speaker 1: We'll try this again, Sarah, Why did God create natural disasters?
[47:54] Speaker 1: In the Christian worldview?
[47:56] Speaker 9: Because natural disasters are the consequence of the fall. When
[48:01] Speaker 9: the fall happened, everything bad happened, and it's all our fault,
[48:06] Speaker 9: even though God's.
[48:07] Speaker 2: Actually in charge. That was easy.
[48:08] Speaker 1: Why couldn't you say that, Maren?
[48:11] Speaker 16: Because you can't stand one minute to explanation? You want
[48:15] Speaker 16: one sentence?
[48:18] Speaker 9: Was I right?
[48:20] Speaker 11: Was right?
[48:22] Speaker 16: Let me ask? Let me ask you think.
[48:26] Speaker 5: Was right?
[48:31] Speaker 1: They always want to tell stories. I'll never understand why
[48:33] Speaker 1: they think telling stories is a is a workable method
[48:36] Speaker 1: for dialogue. I don't know why they always assume we
[48:40] Speaker 1: don't know the literally the first story in the Bible either.
[48:43] Speaker 1: It's the only story Christians even know.
[48:46] Speaker 9: Oh did he drop?
[48:48] Speaker 1: He just wanted to preach.
[48:51] Speaker 9: Marin. I knew they I knew the answer, right, that's
[48:54] Speaker 9: what you were going to say that before.
[48:57] Speaker 1: He was mad that you could give the answer, and
[48:59] Speaker 1: he had to get view an entire lecture on the
[49:01] Speaker 1: Adam and Eve story. I got a couple of super chests.
[49:07] Speaker 1: We got a next guest in here. Berner Bunsen, thank
[49:09] Speaker 1: you so much for the super chest. Says they can't
[49:12] Speaker 1: speculate all damn day. We are working on the same evidence.
[49:15] Speaker 1: How can you make a claim without knowing what your
[49:17] Speaker 1: claim fundamentally means? Well, listen, in the Christian worldview, when
[49:22] Speaker 1: you make claims, there are always band aids. Right, So
[49:25] Speaker 1: most of the claims of Christianity were not thought through,
[49:29] Speaker 1: and then all subsequent claims are just band aids to
[49:31] Speaker 1: fix the problems with the first claim. None of them
[49:34] Speaker 1: are actually good solutions. Yoda, thank you for the findo
[49:36] Speaker 1: out of supertest can you explain the Trinity? Well, it's illogical,
[49:40] Speaker 1: so not really? Was Jesus God? Was he the Son
[49:42] Speaker 1: of God? Who is the Holy Ghost? Or direct me
[49:44] Speaker 1: to a good video explaining it. Thanks rock Hard for Doug.
[49:48] Speaker 1: I think the best video to explain why the Trinity
[49:51] Speaker 1: is absolute nonsense is to watch the debate. There was
[49:55] Speaker 1: a short little debate between Danny and Inspiring Philosophy, and
[50:00] Speaker 1: Inspiring Philosophy literally had to concede that in order for
[50:03] Speaker 1: the Trinity to be true, he had to abandon classical logic.
[50:08] Speaker 1: So that's probably the best way to go. I'd watched
[50:11] Speaker 1: the debate between Danny and Inspiring Philosophy, and Dano says,
[50:14] Speaker 1: thanks to you, I'm aiming to get a PhD in
[50:17] Speaker 1: higher Kundalini calculus. Unfortunately I have to be at least
[50:22] Speaker 1: density twelve verse. I swear the amount of WU that
[50:26] Speaker 1: we got this week, I was way over my threshold
[50:29] Speaker 1: for WU.
[50:30] Speaker 9: It's it's not talking about yoga.
[50:32] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[50:34] Speaker 9: Oh, I watched that documentary this week, Breath of Fire.
[50:38] Speaker 9: It was intense.
[50:39] Speaker 1: We had a firm believer in the in the in
[50:42] Speaker 1: the thing. Yesterday or the day before, I forget crucifix
[50:46] Speaker 1: me thank you for the superchat. Friend says, to be Catholic, saint,
[50:49] Speaker 1: preach morality, cover four predator pals, Poland's done with JP
[50:54] Speaker 1: two ps. Did Condelini lost two levels in the matrix,
[50:57] Speaker 1: don't recommend a start. He lost two levels in the
[51:01] Speaker 1: density matrix. We'll pray to the sun for your revival.
[51:07] Speaker 1: And Harris says, have you had the misfortune to debate
[51:09] Speaker 1: the seven day week proves God?
[51:11] Speaker 11: Guy?
[51:13] Speaker 1: No, I haven't. I don't think I can't find where
[51:16] Speaker 1: the Bible indicates that proves his sovereignty. Shale Doug Haro,
[51:20] Speaker 1: I've heard the seven day week argument before. It's never
[51:24] Speaker 1: been good, has never been by someone who knows the
[51:26] Speaker 1: argument very well. But as for the guy who created
[51:29] Speaker 1: the argument, I have not debated that person. Steven says,
[51:32] Speaker 1: our barbecue's burning flesh for God. He must be happy.
[51:36] Speaker 1: Barbecues are burning flesh for Doug. But you don't have
[51:39] Speaker 1: to sacrifice anything. Don't worry about that. Brandon says, do
[51:43] Speaker 1: you think there's any good evidence for God?
[51:46] Speaker 13: No?
[51:47] Speaker 1: Or as I would be a believer and faith without
[51:51] Speaker 1: works music. Thank you for the one dollar super Thanks.
[51:53] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And Roger Winzel says, exposing the ignorance
[51:57] Speaker 1: of Christians about their own religion is very entertaining. Indeed,
[52:00] Speaker 1: actually that's kind of what we do here. We tend
[52:02] Speaker 1: to try to educate because what we find is most
[52:06] Speaker 1: Christians haven't actually read the book and we have and
[52:09] Speaker 1: faith with that work's coming in again. That I have
[52:11] Speaker 1: to spend two dollars, You owe me three dollars. You
[52:14] Speaker 1: don't have to spend anything faith without works. You don't
[52:18] Speaker 1: have to super chat, But I'll bill you for this
[52:21] Speaker 1: conversation later. Don't worry, Vern, thank you so much for
[52:25] Speaker 1: the twenty dollars super chat. Huge w my friend says
[52:27] Speaker 1: another live stream I'm still trying to get through yesterday's stream.
[52:30] Speaker 5: Ha.
[52:30] Speaker 1: Anyways, keep cooking, man. Also, fuck the Browns let's go stealers. Well, uh, Vern,
[52:36] Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to ban you from the channel now.
[52:37] Speaker 1: Thank you for watching, Thank you for supporting. I appreciate
[52:41] Speaker 1: that you're a football fan, but unfortunately you're no longer
[52:45] Speaker 1: allowed in the live stream. We just got to get
[52:46] Speaker 1: rid of you. Sorry, Actually we agree the brown sock.
[52:52] Speaker 1: I just I'm stuck with them. What are you gonna do?
[52:56] Speaker 14: What are you gonna do?
[52:56] Speaker 1: You gotta root for the home team, right, you don't
[52:58] Speaker 1: want to be a trader.
[53:01] Speaker 9: Colberts.
[53:03] Speaker 1: I'd root for the Bears before the Steelers. Welcome in, Duke.
[53:10] Speaker 2: Hey, how's it going man?
[53:11] Speaker 1: Very good? Thank you for asking. Duke? Are at least eighteen?
[53:13] Speaker 1: And are you believer?
[53:15] Speaker 2: Yes? Yes? About those?
[53:17] Speaker 1: Cool? And what kind of a God do you believe in?
[53:21] Speaker 2: I believe in the Holy Trinity. I'm a non Christian.
[53:25] Speaker 1: Cool. So what would be the most compelling evidence or
[53:30] Speaker 1: argument for the Bible God being real?
[53:36] Speaker 2: Do you want spiritual or like fossils or how do
[53:41] Speaker 2: you want to go with it?
[53:43] Speaker 1: Hey, whatever you think is convincing.
[53:47] Speaker 2: I think the most convincing is probably the seashells that
[53:51] Speaker 2: they found, like up on top of the mountains. I
[53:53] Speaker 2: think that that that is kind of a It alludes
[53:57] Speaker 2: to there being some sort of flood. It's point is that,
[54:01] Speaker 2: So you think the flood put them there? I don't think.
[54:04] Speaker 1: So, how come we're not seashells on top of every mountain?
[54:09] Speaker 2: That's a good question. I think it might have to
[54:12] Speaker 2: do with probably the age of the mountain.
[54:13] Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go. Now we're getting somewhere. The reason
[54:15] Speaker 1: why there are seashells on top of some mountains, not
[54:18] Speaker 1: all mountains, is because those mountains used to be under
[54:21] Speaker 1: a body of water. Though not all mountains existed for
[54:26] Speaker 1: millions and millions of years. Some mountain ranges are fairly new.
[54:32] Speaker 2: I agree with you on the ones that I'm talking about, though,
[54:36] Speaker 2: are quite old. I'll have to let me. I don't
[54:41] Speaker 2: have my laptop with me right now, and if I've
[54:42] Speaker 2: closed the aft it will.
[54:50] Speaker 1: You assume you're referring to the Alps.
[54:53] Speaker 9: Uh?
[54:54] Speaker 2: Not quite there, there were some It was some mountain
[54:57] Speaker 2: in the Middle East. Hang on, I'm fetching my laps
[55:04] Speaker 2: off out of.
[55:04] Speaker 9: The like where you think Noah's Ark was. Uh.
[55:09] Speaker 22: No, so the they're saying that the Noah's Ark was
[55:13] Speaker 22: probably roughly landed in uh, closer towards like Africa.
[55:20] Speaker 1: Air Rat mount air Rat, Yeah, up near an Antonio,
[55:24] Speaker 1: the Anatolia, the Caucus mountain range.
[55:28] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[55:29] Speaker 1: So the mount air Rat's only about two million years old.
[55:32] Speaker 1: By the way, interesting, howl. Do you believe the Earth
[55:38] Speaker 1: is what four point seven billion?
[55:41] Speaker 16: Is that about?
[55:41] Speaker 2: Right? M okay? So about half the time span of
[55:45] Speaker 2: Earth's creation? No?
[55:48] Speaker 9: No, four billion?
[55:50] Speaker 5: Oh billion?
[55:51] Speaker 9: A million? Yeah?
[55:53] Speaker 5: Sorry?
[55:53] Speaker 2: I missurd it, Okay, I guess I really just like
[55:59] Speaker 2: I'm kind of I'm curious to see your guys' perspective
[56:02] Speaker 2: of things, like what what is what questions do you
[56:05] Speaker 2: have for like the people of faith? Like what what
[56:10] Speaker 2: are your big questions? Like what? What's what? What kind
[56:13] Speaker 2: of like prevents you guys from from believing? Is it
[56:17] Speaker 2: lack of them? Yeah? Far away?
[56:21] Speaker 1: How first are you in the Bible?
[56:25] Speaker 2: Not, I'm not. I'm not gonna be an I'm gonna
[56:26] Speaker 2: be one hundred percent honest with you. I'm not one
[56:29] Speaker 2: hundred percent first in it. I've probably read about three
[56:32] Speaker 2: or four books. I'm still I'm relatively new to the faith.
[56:37] Speaker 2: So it's it's I'm still working on going through a
[56:41] Speaker 2: lot of them.
[56:41] Speaker 9: May I ask you why you believe it's true if
[56:45] Speaker 9: you haven't read it?
[56:48] Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah. So a while ago I had a dream
[56:57] Speaker 2: where so in this for context, right, I have not
[57:02] Speaker 2: prior prior to this dream, I had like almost almost
[57:08] Speaker 2: little to none experience with church or going to church
[57:11] Speaker 2: or anything like that, very very like almost literally none
[57:18] Speaker 2: no experience with the Bible, like reading it. And I
[57:24] Speaker 2: had this dream where I was I went to the
[57:29] Speaker 2: the you know pearly gates and they basically cast me
[57:34] Speaker 2: down to hell. And you know, I woke up and
[57:38] Speaker 2: I just started crying like profusely. So that's that's kind
[57:45] Speaker 2: of what cemented, like woke me up, like, Hey, I
[57:49] Speaker 2: need to I need to be a better, better person
[57:54] Speaker 2: than I am right now because when i'm what I
[57:56] Speaker 2: am right now is not not enough.
[58:00] Speaker 1: So do you do know that people and other religions
[58:03] Speaker 1: have or other cultures have dreams about the gods of
[58:07] Speaker 1: that culture too, Right? I actually worked with the Hindu
[58:10] Speaker 1: uh gentlemen that was visited by two of the main
[58:14] Speaker 1: three Hindu deities. That was a lot of validation for him.
[58:19] Speaker 1: But certainly you wouldn't accept that those deities exist, would do.
[58:25] Speaker 5: Well.
[58:25] Speaker 2: So a lot of a lot of what uh if
[58:28] Speaker 2: we would go back to like the Book of Genesis
[58:31] Speaker 2: and stuff. The common theme is that there are these
[58:36] Speaker 2: pagan gods and the Christian God. Right yahweh, he gets
[58:41] Speaker 2: he's upset that we go to these these uh, these
[58:47] Speaker 2: other lesser gods and then this is how the text
[58:51] Speaker 2: explains it. Right, I'm not I'm not discrediting anybody's an
[58:54] Speaker 2: he's anybody's religion, right, I'm just explaining it from the
[58:57] Speaker 2: perspective of the Bible. It says that, like, hey, you're
[59:03] Speaker 2: giving all these attention to these false gods, but ultimately
[59:05] Speaker 2: they don't really care about you like I care about you.
[59:09] Speaker 2: And it's not we're not I don't discredit their existence, right,
[59:16] Speaker 2: it's just that they're not as powerful as Yahweh. So
[59:19] Speaker 2: they're not they're not like they Oh.
[59:22] Speaker 9: So you believe in multiple gods, Like there's lots of
[59:24] Speaker 9: gods and this is just the god that you worship.
[59:28] Speaker 2: No, so it's it's a little bit more complicated than that.
[59:32] Speaker 2: It's so we we have we have Yahweh. Right, And
[59:37] Speaker 2: if you go into the Bible and we talk about
[59:39] Speaker 2: like if you go into the Book of I believe
[59:41] Speaker 2: it's either Isaiah or Ezekiel I can't remember off the
[59:44] Speaker 2: top of my head, explains the fall of Lucifer and
[59:47] Speaker 2: explains like how he convinced like a third of well.
[59:51] Speaker 1: His h hate the bursch of bubble. But actually neither
[59:54] Speaker 1: of those books described the fall of Satan, even though
[59:57] Speaker 1: both of those books are claimed to doing some Isaiah
[1:00:00] Speaker 1: fourteen and Ezekiel twenty eight are the chapters you're looking for,
[1:00:03] Speaker 1: and neither one of them described Satan at all.
[1:00:08] Speaker 2: Okay, I know that's.
[1:00:10] Speaker 1: What the church teaches. I get that, But if you
[1:00:12] Speaker 1: read the text, it's clearly not what it's referring to.
[1:00:16] Speaker 2: You don't think it's that's what it's talking about. Whenever
[1:00:18] Speaker 2: it's talking about the cherub that got consumed by.
[1:00:22] Speaker 1: Pride, that's Ezekiel twenty eight. And know the cherub is
[1:00:27] Speaker 1: a riff on Humbaba, the cherub that was in the
[1:00:30] Speaker 1: cedar forest next to where this King of Tyre was.
[1:00:34] Speaker 1: If you read the Epic of Gogamesh. In fact, it
[1:00:36] Speaker 1: says Direk parallel. So he's making fun of the King
[1:00:40] Speaker 1: of Tyre using mythology from his area. Remember, the taunt
[1:00:46] Speaker 1: is to the King of Tire after he's been defeated,
[1:00:49] Speaker 1: So the has to be understandable to the King of Tire.
[1:00:52] Speaker 1: King of Tyre doesn't know a damn thing about Jewish theology,
[1:00:55] Speaker 1: much less a Satan character that actually isn't really like
[1:00:59] Speaker 1: the way he he's in the Old Testament, isn't like
[1:01:02] Speaker 1: an evil, malevolent entity trying to harm everybody.
[1:01:09] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's possible. I mean, they they definitely use pop
[1:01:14] Speaker 2: culture a lot in the Bible, like the Book of Jude.
[1:01:17] Speaker 2: I believe it is he references a couple of things
[1:01:20] Speaker 2: that are local to the.
[1:01:23] Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, Jude quotes directly from Enoch. First Enoch, chapter nine.
[1:01:29] Speaker 1: I think.
[1:01:32] Speaker 2: I have not read the Book of Enoch, so I
[1:01:34] Speaker 2: don't I don't know quite one hundred percent.
[1:01:38] Speaker 1: Let me let me ask you a question.
[1:01:41] Speaker 11: What's it.
[1:01:43] Speaker 14: You know?
[1:01:43] Speaker 1: You may not know a ton of the Bible, but
[1:01:45] Speaker 1: you probably are familiar with the Christian doctrine. Why does
[1:01:48] Speaker 1: God send people to Helm.
[1:01:53] Speaker 2: It's not that he wants us to go to Hell.
[1:01:55] Speaker 2: It's it's that it's because we've like so sin separates
[1:01:59] Speaker 2: us from God, right, that's the whole premise of it.
[1:02:02] Speaker 2: So like if if I'm in if I'm caught up
[1:02:05] Speaker 2: in its sexual orality, immorality, it prevents me from like
[1:02:12] Speaker 2: being in relationship with God because He's He's given us
[1:02:16] Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit to like have a closer relationship with Him.
[1:02:22] Speaker 2: That was the whole purpose of like Jesus sacrificing his
[1:02:25] Speaker 2: life for us. It's it's really that we put ourselves
[1:02:34] Speaker 2: into that position. It's it's not the will of the
[1:02:37] Speaker 2: Father for us to go to Hell. It's it's that
[1:02:39] Speaker 2: you know, we've we've put ourselves in such a position,
[1:02:43] Speaker 2: and it's like, I don't I don't think that they
[1:02:45] Speaker 2: would ever change their minds or want to believe in
[1:02:51] Speaker 2: a god.
[1:02:52] Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to give you analogy. Do you have
[1:02:54] Speaker 1: any sisters, niece?
[1:02:56] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[1:02:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, I asked your sister on a date and I said, hey,
[1:03:00] Speaker 1: we're gonna have the time of our lives. You know,
[1:03:02] Speaker 1: I'll be the the best date night you've ever had.
[1:03:05] Speaker 1: But if you say no to me, I've got to
[1:03:06] Speaker 1: lock in my basement and light it on fire. My
[1:03:09] Speaker 1: good or bad.
[1:03:14] Speaker 2: As a person, you'd be bad. Yeah.
[1:03:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, So why is it different when God does it?
[1:03:18] Speaker 1: When God gives you the ultimatum of love me or
[1:03:21] Speaker 1: get tortured in fire, why is that now a good thing?
[1:03:25] Speaker 2: It's not quite love me or get tortured in fire.
[1:03:28] Speaker 2: It's more like he's he's giving us like so much
[1:03:33] Speaker 2: like the whole purpose on earth is to either get
[1:03:38] Speaker 2: closer to God or if it is, either get closer
[1:03:42] Speaker 2: to God or find God, it's not quite. It's not
[1:03:49] Speaker 2: that he wants us to I'm sorry, can you say
[1:03:53] Speaker 2: the question again? I'm a little bit I just woke up.
[1:03:55] Speaker 1: If you don't choose God, he will torch you won't he.
[1:04:02] Speaker 2: If you choose to completely neglect God. I mean, I'm
[1:04:06] Speaker 2: not the one that makes the judgment, but it's not
[1:04:09] Speaker 2: It doesn't look as Scripture says that it's not your judgment.
[1:04:14] Speaker 1: Day isn't going to look great, right, But we're trying
[1:04:17] Speaker 1: to figure out why, because it seems like a really
[1:04:18] Speaker 1: silly outcome for not believing in this deity. Right, So
[1:04:22] Speaker 1: I don't believe in this deity. I would, in fact
[1:04:25] Speaker 1: say that my life looks most like the life of
[1:04:28] Speaker 1: any believer you've ever met. The differences I believe in,
[1:04:32] Speaker 1: I don't believe in they do, right, So I'm trying
[1:04:34] Speaker 1: to figure out why I should be tortured for eternity
[1:04:38] Speaker 1: in hell fire or until annihilation either one.
[1:04:47] Speaker 2: Have you tried asking God about it? Yeah?
[1:04:49] Speaker 1: I was a Christian for twenty years.
[1:04:56] Speaker 2: What made you separate from the faith?
[1:04:58] Speaker 1: The Bible wasn't true?
[1:05:01] Speaker 9: And I think the point is, you know, do you
[1:05:04] Speaker 9: have the ability to determine is this a just system?
[1:05:08] Speaker 9: Is this a fair system? And you know, I think
[1:05:13] Speaker 9: in this conversation, a lot of times we hear from Christians, well,
[1:05:16] Speaker 9: it just is what it is, Like I don't make
[1:05:18] Speaker 9: the rules. I just have to be part of the system.
[1:05:22] Speaker 9: But I think I hope that you would not bow
[1:05:27] Speaker 9: down to a tyrant. You would not worship someone you
[1:05:30] Speaker 9: thought was bad. And so there's this disconnect between what
[1:05:35] Speaker 9: you're saying God does and yet somehow you're your own
[1:05:39] Speaker 9: sense of justice.
[1:05:41] Speaker 2: No, so he God's not a tyrant, right so whenever,
[1:05:45] Speaker 2: whenever he casts Lucifer down down to Earth, right because
[1:05:48] Speaker 2: he rules the Earth's day, right, why.
[1:05:51] Speaker 1: Why would he put Lucifer in charge of the Earth
[1:05:54] Speaker 1: if he's bad?
[1:05:57] Speaker 2: Because he doesn't he he's waiting, I think, so his
[1:06:02] Speaker 2: ways aren't my way. So I don't I don't understand
[1:06:04] Speaker 2: the plan entirely, but I think what God is trying
[1:06:07] Speaker 2: to do is line up the Earth to be in
[1:06:10] Speaker 2: a position where his son can take rule over the Earth.
[1:06:15] Speaker 2: And right now he can't do that because Satan is
[1:06:17] Speaker 2: on Earth right now?
[1:06:18] Speaker 1: Why does he get rid of Satan? Then Axim get
[1:06:21] Speaker 1: him out of here?
[1:06:23] Speaker 2: Because I don't I don't think God likes to just
[1:06:27] Speaker 2: destroy like I think that there there are may be
[1:06:33] Speaker 2: two phases to his plan, right there could be that
[1:06:36] Speaker 2: right now it's it's everybody. Everybody can go and worship
[1:06:42] Speaker 2: God or they can separate themselves. And then once once
[1:06:46] Speaker 2: Jesus has established his his like kingdom, there could be
[1:06:52] Speaker 2: a phase two plan where it's like, Okay, well now
[1:06:54] Speaker 2: we're trying to save the people that didn't get saved,
[1:06:58] Speaker 2: you know, like, because God, God is merciful and he's
[1:07:01] Speaker 2: he's loving, he's not he's He's given us a lot
[1:07:06] Speaker 2: of a lot of second chances. I doubt that.
[1:07:12] Speaker 1: They're But the Satan thing, I'm trying to figure out
[1:07:16] Speaker 1: why he put the most evil entity in all of
[1:07:18] Speaker 1: history in charge of the earth. Seems like a real
[1:07:21] Speaker 1: weird thing to do.
[1:07:26] Speaker 2: That's a good question. I'm sure there's there's an answer,
[1:07:29] Speaker 2: But I'm not the one that's in charge of that.
[1:07:34] Speaker 2: That's not my circuit.
[1:07:36] Speaker 9: But you are in charge of who you worship, right right,
[1:07:40] Speaker 9: And so it's if if God is doing something that
[1:07:43] Speaker 9: appears to be really mean or unjust or or bad,
[1:07:49] Speaker 9: I think it is your responsibility to figure out are
[1:07:52] Speaker 9: you worshiping a good God or not.
[1:08:00] Speaker 1: I'll give you an example from a different religion. Okay, So,
[1:08:03] Speaker 1: like if we have you read through the Koran.
[1:08:07] Speaker 2: I've read probably about the chapter or two. I couldn't really, Yeah,
[1:08:16] Speaker 2: I'll read you something from the Koran.
[1:08:17] Speaker 1: I want and remember this comes from God, right, So
[1:08:20] Speaker 1: I want you to tell me if you think the
[1:08:22] Speaker 1: God of this book is behaving good or bad. The
[1:08:25] Speaker 1: supposed man marries a woman, but after going into her
[1:08:28] Speaker 1: dislikes her and makes up charges against her, slandering her
[1:08:31] Speaker 1: by saying, I married this woman, but when I lay
[1:08:33] Speaker 1: with her, I did not find evidence of her virginity.
[1:08:36] Speaker 1: The father of the young woman and her mother shall
[1:08:37] Speaker 1: then submit the evidence of the young woman's virginity to
[1:08:40] Speaker 1: the elders at the city gate. Okay, So if a
[1:08:43] Speaker 1: woman doesn't bleed on her wedding night, they got to
[1:08:45] Speaker 1: go to court and listen, I slept with her. I
[1:08:48] Speaker 1: didn't see the evidence of the virginity. You told me
[1:08:52] Speaker 1: she was a virgin. She said she was a virgin.
[1:08:53] Speaker 1: Words the blood right. So it says when you get there, said,
[1:09:00] Speaker 1: they shall spread out the cloth before the elders of
[1:09:02] Speaker 1: the town, and the elders of the town will take
[1:09:04] Speaker 1: the man and punish him. So the proof of the
[1:09:07] Speaker 1: virginity is the cloth, right, whether she bled on the cloth? Okay, Now,
[1:09:11] Speaker 1: if the man is found to be lying, he gets
[1:09:14] Speaker 1: to pay a fine and then they have to be
[1:09:16] Speaker 1: married for the rest of the life. If the woman
[1:09:19] Speaker 1: is found to have not bled on the sheet, it says, if, however,
[1:09:22] Speaker 1: the charge is true, that the evidence of the young
[1:09:24] Speaker 1: woman's virginity was not found, then they shall bring the
[1:09:27] Speaker 1: young woman out to the entrance of her father's house,
[1:09:29] Speaker 1: and the men of her town shall stone her to
[1:09:31] Speaker 1: death because she could admit a disgraceful act. So do
[1:09:35] Speaker 1: you think that's a fair thing to do, to brutalized
[1:09:38] Speaker 1: by stoning a young woman who didn't bleed on her
[1:09:41] Speaker 1: wedding night.
[1:09:43] Speaker 2: No, I don't think so.
[1:09:44] Speaker 1: No, no, And you would say the god who gave
[1:09:46] Speaker 1: that command is like horrific because like brides don't bleed
[1:09:52] Speaker 1: their first time, only forty three percent of them on
[1:09:55] Speaker 1: average bleed their first time, which means like a bunch
[1:10:00] Speaker 1: of innocent women are going to get stoned.
[1:10:06] Speaker 2: Mm hmm, it's possible. Right again, the there's no way
[1:10:14] Speaker 2: of really knowing, like why he would give that command?
[1:10:18] Speaker 1: Well, this is from a law, right right, Why would
[1:10:23] Speaker 1: a law want this command? He tells you in the book.
[1:10:29] Speaker 1: He says to purge the evil from among you. You
[1:10:34] Speaker 1: had you had to kill the non virgins based on
[1:10:40] Speaker 1: faulty evidence.
[1:10:42] Speaker 2: It could be we could argue that it is. It
[1:10:46] Speaker 2: was a law that was established to tell fathers to
[1:10:49] Speaker 2: properly raise their daughters so that they don't end up,
[1:10:53] Speaker 2: so they don't end up in this situation like that.
[1:10:56] Speaker 2: It could be.
[1:10:58] Speaker 9: The situation like that that we're describing is a woman
[1:11:03] Speaker 9: who could be a virgin and just by nature of
[1:11:07] Speaker 9: her biology, doesn't bleed on her wedding night. That is
[1:11:10] Speaker 9: her situation. Right, So how how is a father raising
[1:11:16] Speaker 9: a daughter correctly to ensure she bleeds versus not if
[1:11:22] Speaker 9: it actually has nothing to do with her virginity.
[1:11:24] Speaker 2: Okay, So that that will go into like the like
[1:11:29] Speaker 2: the traditions of marriage, right.
[1:11:31] Speaker 9: No, no, no, I'm talking about the biology of the situation,
[1:11:36] Speaker 9: the law that you don't bleed, you're not a virgin. However, biologically,
[1:11:43] Speaker 9: many virgins do not bleed their first time.
[1:11:50] Speaker 2: Okay, And here you that that evidence is most is
[1:11:54] Speaker 2: probably right. I don't I don't know how, Yeah, I
[1:11:57] Speaker 2: don't know. Okay.
[1:11:59] Speaker 1: And sarahs a physiologist, by the way, Okay, cool, So
[1:12:05] Speaker 1: then you're you're definitely right, So that we don't know if.
[1:12:12] Speaker 2: We don't know if that law was taken into one
[1:12:15] Speaker 2: hundred percent, But.
[1:12:17] Speaker 1: No one's asking if it was followed. We're asking is
[1:12:19] Speaker 1: it a good law?
[1:12:26] Speaker 2: I don't know the context behind the law or not.
[1:12:30] Speaker 2: It's that's one of the.
[1:12:31] Speaker 9: Things that is there any context in which that would
[1:12:34] Speaker 9: be a good law?
[1:12:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I'm trying to figure out, like, I
[1:12:37] Speaker 1: don't know of any context that makes killing innocent women good.
[1:12:41] Speaker 2: No, it's not that. So it's not the context of like, right,
[1:12:47] Speaker 2: So we tell stories, we tell stories that are are
[1:12:50] Speaker 2: really bad to protect people, right, and something.
[1:12:54] Speaker 9: About a god. Is this god a good character or
[1:12:57] Speaker 9: a bad character based on.
[1:12:59] Speaker 2: Those If he was, if he was giving that law
[1:13:02] Speaker 2: to protect people, then yes.
[1:13:03] Speaker 9: From no, it's hurting people.
[1:13:06] Speaker 1: He's hurting people. It's killing innocent women.
[1:13:09] Speaker 2: Okay, So again, the if we go back to the
[1:13:16] Speaker 2: traditions of marriage, right, it's the father's responsibility to make
[1:13:21] Speaker 2: sure that the daughter is seated in the proper hands
[1:13:24] Speaker 2: of a husband. This is back then, but pause.
[1:13:26] Speaker 1: For a second. Pause for a second. We're not saying
[1:13:29] Speaker 1: that that's not happening. What we're saying is that at
[1:13:33] Speaker 1: least half of the women would not have bled their
[1:13:37] Speaker 1: first time and still be innocent and get killed. That's
[1:13:42] Speaker 1: the problem. You don't.
[1:13:46] Speaker 2: Can you give me theo that you're referring to, specifically
[1:13:50] Speaker 2: the verse.
[1:13:51] Speaker 1: I told you it was in the Kuran.
[1:13:53] Speaker 9: I think he's ONTI you justin that's why he's defending it.
[1:13:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, I was was curious about that, or if you
[1:14:00] Speaker 1: didn't hear me correctly.
[1:14:03] Speaker 9: So, just so that we're on the same page, this
[1:14:06] Speaker 9: is a law that says, if you don't bleed on
[1:14:09] Speaker 9: your wedding night, you die. And half of the women
[1:14:15] Speaker 9: who are virgins, so who have done nothing wrong, who
[1:14:19] Speaker 9: have followed the law, whose fathers have done what they
[1:14:22] Speaker 9: were supposed to do, everything they've done is correct, they
[1:14:27] Speaker 9: will still not bleed on their wedding night. And so
[1:14:31] Speaker 9: the god who wrote this law is condemning innocent women
[1:14:36] Speaker 9: to death.
[1:14:49] Speaker 2: I'm sure there's a reason behind it.
[1:14:51] Speaker 9: Why Why are you sure there's a reason behind it?
[1:14:53] Speaker 1: Is there ever a good reason to kill innocent people?
[1:14:59] Speaker 2: No? I mean, if you can spare as many lives
[1:15:02] Speaker 2: as you can, then you should. But if if if
[1:15:05] Speaker 2: there if if if there's if there has to be
[1:15:12] Speaker 2: like some sort of I I again, I don't know,
[1:15:21] Speaker 2: because his ways aren't aren't my ways. I don't, I don't.
[1:15:24] Speaker 2: That's not something that I'm I'm supposed to fucking in.
[1:15:27] Speaker 9: But dude, you are supposed to decide if this God
[1:15:31] Speaker 9: is good or bad, and if you are going to
[1:15:35] Speaker 9: pledge your allegiance to this God, it is your responsibility
[1:15:40] Speaker 9: to read the claims, to read the book, and to
[1:15:43] Speaker 9: know what this God actually does before you pledge your
[1:15:47] Speaker 9: allegiance to him. I know that you can see that
[1:15:51] Speaker 9: God has written a bad law. This is this is
[1:15:54] Speaker 9: literally commanding his followers to stone innocent women. And so
[1:16:01] Speaker 9: that is clear evidence that this God has created a
[1:16:04] Speaker 9: bad law that harms people.
[1:16:11] Speaker 2: I think that there was some sort of purpose behind it.
[1:16:15] Speaker 9: Why why do you think that? Why have you decided
[1:16:18] Speaker 9: that God is good before reading about God?
[1:16:22] Speaker 2: I have read about God.
[1:16:24] Speaker 9: You haven't read most of the Bible. You have to
[1:16:26] Speaker 9: read the whole thing to see the whole picture.
[1:16:29] Speaker 2: And I'm getting there, but I haven't gotten there just yet. Right.
[1:16:33] Speaker 9: That's my point is you've preemptively decided that this God
[1:16:37] Speaker 9: is good. You preemptively decided that, and now when you're
[1:16:41] Speaker 9: seeing evidence to the contrary, you're just pushing it away
[1:16:45] Speaker 9: because you've already decided. And even though the document you
[1:16:49] Speaker 9: claim is true is showing you how this God is harming,
[1:16:55] Speaker 9: people won't see it because you've already decided that he's good.
[1:17:01] Speaker 2: Because I've had a relationship with God. That's You don't
[1:17:05] Speaker 2: need to the Bible. Yes, you need to read the
[1:17:09] Speaker 2: Bible on hundred percent so that you can understand the
[1:17:11] Speaker 2: context of a lot of things. Right, But if we
[1:17:14] Speaker 2: if we base our if we base our judgment on
[1:17:20] Speaker 2: God off of pre existing mistakes and.
[1:17:26] Speaker 1: Wait, what the Bible or God making a mistake.
[1:17:31] Speaker 2: It could have been a person that interpreted it incorrectly.
[1:17:36] Speaker 1: The Bible is not true.
[1:17:42] Speaker 2: No, it is true.
[1:17:43] Speaker 9: Okay, we read this directly from the Bible.
[1:17:46] Speaker 2: To you, right, but we don't understand the context of
[1:17:50] Speaker 2: which God has dished out this command. I do. There's
[1:17:53] Speaker 2: a lot of information.
[1:17:54] Speaker 1: Okay, would you like the entire Bible? Yeah, this is
[1:17:57] Speaker 1: one of the laws of Moses. It's in Deuteronomy twenty two.
[1:18:00] Speaker 1: It's among the sexual purity laws. And God tells you
[1:18:04] Speaker 1: to do it because he wants you to be pure,
[1:18:06] Speaker 1: because he walks among you in the camp Deuteronomy twenty three.
[1:18:13] Speaker 1: It's a purity law. It's it. It's not even a
[1:18:16] Speaker 1: good one.
[1:18:17] Speaker 2: Is it? Is it possible that a lot of the
[1:18:21] Speaker 2: because we have we have generation. Have you heard of
[1:18:24] Speaker 2: generational sin?
[1:18:25] Speaker 13: Right?
[1:18:27] Speaker 1: That's gonna make it worse, not better, because generational sin
[1:18:31] Speaker 1: is unjust. I shouldn't be held accountable for my parents' sin.
[1:18:35] Speaker 1: My sin shouldn't be held account to my child. That's
[1:18:38] Speaker 1: silly and it's ridiculous, right.
[1:18:41] Speaker 2: But that's why you that's why they back then they
[1:18:43] Speaker 2: would you would you would sacrifice an animal or something
[1:18:47] Speaker 2: to to the to God? Why? And that would be
[1:18:50] Speaker 2: a payment for your sins?
[1:18:52] Speaker 1: Why does God need you to kill an animal so
[1:18:54] Speaker 1: that he doesn't do something that's unjust?
[1:18:59] Speaker 2: I don't know why. God means that's a question for God,
[1:19:02] Speaker 2: not me.
[1:19:05] Speaker 1: See how once we probe a little under the surface
[1:19:08] Speaker 1: of the God, it ends up with a lot of
[1:19:11] Speaker 1: I don't knows. The reality is it's because the God
[1:19:15] Speaker 1: doesn't actually make a lot of sense. He's just not just,
[1:19:18] Speaker 1: He's not good. Do you think there's ever and this
[1:19:22] Speaker 1: is an encompassing statement, do you think that there is
[1:19:25] Speaker 1: ever a scenario in any possible world where women should
[1:19:30] Speaker 1: be punished for the crimes of their husband. So like,
[1:19:33] Speaker 1: if I go out, I commit adultery, should my wives
[1:19:36] Speaker 1: be graped for my adultery?
[1:19:40] Speaker 2: I'm sorry, could you say that? Questioning? And you burke
[1:19:42] Speaker 2: out a little bit.
[1:19:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, if I committed adultery, is there a scenario in
[1:19:46] Speaker 1: which my wives, say, I have ten of them? For
[1:19:50] Speaker 1: this example, my wives should be graped because I committed adultery.
[1:20:03] Speaker 9: The fact that you're hesitating is upsetting.
[1:20:06] Speaker 1: It is upsetting. Actually, the answer should be known.
[1:20:09] Speaker 2: The question is why would you have ten wives? That's
[1:20:13] Speaker 2: the name.
[1:20:15] Speaker 16: Yeah.
[1:20:15] Speaker 1: If you think that's the problem, you've got a huge problem.
[1:20:23] Speaker 1: So is there ever a scenario in which my ten
[1:20:26] Speaker 1: wives should have to be sexually assaulted if I commit
[1:20:29] Speaker 1: adult dream?
[1:20:32] Speaker 2: No?
[1:20:32] Speaker 1: Absolutely not ever, no matter what. No, you read the
[1:20:37] Speaker 1: story of King David.
[1:20:38] Speaker 2: Yet I haven't gotten to that point.
[1:20:41] Speaker 1: Now, I'm when read you a snippet from Second Samuel twelve.
[1:20:46] Speaker 1: So in Second Samuel twelve, God has to deal some
[1:20:50] Speaker 1: kind of punishment to David for sleeping with Bathsheba, and
[1:20:54] Speaker 1: he decides on two different things. Right, He's gonna do
[1:20:58] Speaker 1: two different punishments. The one punishment you probably know of
[1:21:01] Speaker 1: is the child born between him and Bathsheba gets sick
[1:21:04] Speaker 1: and dies seven days later. The second half of the punishment,
[1:21:08] Speaker 1: with people tend to forget, is that he has ten
[1:21:12] Speaker 1: of David's wives graped. He says, does say, it's the Lord.
[1:21:15] Speaker 1: I will raise up trouble against you from within your
[1:21:17] Speaker 1: own house, and I will take your wives before your
[1:21:19] Speaker 1: eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he will
[1:21:21] Speaker 1: lie with your wives in broad daylight. For you did
[1:21:24] Speaker 1: it secretly, but I will do this thing before all
[1:21:26] Speaker 1: Israel in broad daylight. And then if you fast forward
[1:21:30] Speaker 1: to chapter sixteen, it happens Absalom, the child of David,
[1:21:34] Speaker 1: storms the palace trying to defeat his father, take him
[1:21:38] Speaker 1: off the throne, and in a display of force over
[1:21:41] Speaker 1: his father, he takes ten of David's wives up to
[1:21:44] Speaker 1: the top of the palace and sleeps with him in
[1:21:46] Speaker 1: front of all the onlookers. Do you think they deserved it?
[1:21:58] Speaker 2: The wives?
[1:21:59] Speaker 17: No?
[1:21:59] Speaker 11: Yeah?
[1:22:00] Speaker 2: Right?
[1:22:01] Speaker 1: So when I read in Deuteronomy thirty two four that
[1:22:03] Speaker 1: God is just in all of his ways, and then
[1:22:05] Speaker 1: I read in Second Temueal twelve, where he punishes innocent
[1:22:09] Speaker 1: women for the crimes of the husband. In the most
[1:22:11] Speaker 1: horrific way possible. I just conclude that this God is contradictory,
[1:22:16] Speaker 1: and I don't believe that contradictions exist.
[1:22:19] Speaker 2: Do you believe that, as human beings that we would
[1:22:24] Speaker 2: we would abused the grace of God if there wasn't
[1:22:27] Speaker 2: serious consequences for our mistakes.
[1:22:30] Speaker 1: I don't think the consequences need to be unjust consequences,
[1:22:33] Speaker 1: so I don't think the question is relevant. It doesn't
[1:22:37] Speaker 1: matter if the consequences are in existence. I don't have
[1:22:41] Speaker 1: a problem with consequences. I have a problem with the
[1:22:43] Speaker 1: consequences being unjust. Like if my child goes to school
[1:22:48] Speaker 1: and punches somebody in the nose. What I'm not gonna
[1:22:51] Speaker 1: do is say, because you punched this child in the nose,
[1:22:55] Speaker 1: I'm going to have all your siblings get punched in
[1:22:57] Speaker 1: the nose. That's not how that works, is not how
[1:23:00] Speaker 1: justice works. You see the problem, Duke, I suspect you do.
[1:23:13] Speaker 2: I'm sure there's an underlying reason behind it. I doubt
[1:23:16] Speaker 2: that it was just because God is so evil and
[1:23:18] Speaker 2: that he wants everybody that doesn't love him to off themselves.
[1:23:25] Speaker 1: It's just a punishment. He thought the most effective means
[1:23:29] Speaker 1: of punishing David was by having David's property, his ten
[1:23:32] Speaker 1: wives grape. Why didn't he just punish David? But didn't
[1:23:40] Speaker 1: he just kill David for his sin?
[1:23:46] Speaker 2: Because he had a greater purpose for David. I'm saying,
[1:23:49] Speaker 2: I'm not saying that the women's death were discredited, right,
[1:23:54] Speaker 2: not saying that that wasn't horrible.
[1:23:57] Speaker 1: Right, But could God found somebody else.
[1:24:02] Speaker 2: He probably? The question is would have David cared if
[1:24:09] Speaker 2: they had if he had killed anybody else?
[1:24:12] Speaker 9: So he's using Your argument is that he allowed David's
[1:24:17] Speaker 9: wives to be assaulted, right, So this is greaped, that's
[1:24:22] Speaker 9: what's happening to them in order to make it David
[1:24:27] Speaker 9: feel bad enough. That is totally ignoring the women as people.
[1:24:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, I was under the impression that women were sent
[1:24:41] Speaker 1: in thinking agents with feelings and rights as well.
[1:24:45] Speaker 2: Okay, well, here here's my question for you. When did
[1:24:47] Speaker 2: I ever say that women are awful? Idiotic?
[1:24:52] Speaker 9: I didn't say any of that. You just said that
[1:24:55] Speaker 9: they used the women for a greater purpose, that that
[1:24:58] Speaker 9: the women were used to make David feel bad in us.
[1:25:02] Speaker 23: That's what I have a problem with, right, But we
[1:25:08] Speaker 23: have to go back to what times were back then.
[1:25:10] Speaker 23: You're looking at No, we don't from a perspective of today,
[1:25:14] Speaker 23: which is not the whatever.
[1:25:16] Speaker 2: We're looking over historical stuff like how you were, how
[1:25:19] Speaker 2: you were relating the things to pop culture before. Right,
[1:25:22] Speaker 2: we were talking about Ezekiel and Isaiah and how they
[1:25:25] Speaker 2: were referencing things of importance.
[1:25:30] Speaker 9: I'm sorry, you're saying that sa that assault was okay
[1:25:36] Speaker 9: back then. No, I'm not saying that's what we're talking about.
[1:25:39] Speaker 2: I'm saying that he could have used there. There's right.
[1:25:44] Speaker 2: We have pop culture things in really awful ways and
[1:25:47] Speaker 2: really good ways.
[1:25:48] Speaker 9: Again, this was something God directly commanded. This was God said,
[1:25:52] Speaker 9: this will happen.
[1:25:54] Speaker 2: Do this.
[1:25:55] Speaker 9: God would have punished David in any way he wanted,
[1:25:59] Speaker 9: and God's his choice was to assault his wives. That
[1:26:03] Speaker 9: was the punishment.
[1:26:05] Speaker 2: Is it possible that God was prophesizing what was going
[1:26:08] Speaker 2: to happen because God cannot interject with the free will
[1:26:11] Speaker 2: of horrible people.
[1:26:13] Speaker 1: First of all, no, that's not what happened. And yes
[1:26:15] Speaker 1: he can. He does it all the time in the Bible.
[1:26:17] Speaker 1: In fact, it literally says in Thessalonians that he sends
[1:26:20] Speaker 1: a lying spirit so that people don't believe. So, yeah,
[1:26:24] Speaker 1: God invades on people's free will all the time. In
[1:26:27] Speaker 1: Fact Romans chapter nine, Paul makes a case that you
[1:26:29] Speaker 1: don't have free will and lays out the case for
[1:26:32] Speaker 1: why God does it violate people's free will. But none
[1:26:35] Speaker 1: of that's really relevant here. What's relevant here is that
[1:26:38] Speaker 1: God is doing something that at its core is unjust
[1:26:42] Speaker 1: by every definition of the word justice. And as it
[1:26:47] Speaker 1: turns out, I don't think that women should be casualties
[1:26:51] Speaker 1: to teach a man lessian.
[1:26:57] Speaker 2: I don't think that they should be either. But again,
[1:26:59] Speaker 2: we're looking at it from a context of today. There
[1:27:02] Speaker 2: is a context of old times where and.
[1:27:05] Speaker 9: You're arguing that it was okay back then.
[1:27:09] Speaker 2: Oh yes, today and today it was it's not okay.
[1:27:13] Speaker 2: But back then that was probably a normal thing.
[1:27:16] Speaker 9: I'm not saying if it's normal, I'm asking if it's okay?
[1:27:20] Speaker 2: Is it just?
[1:27:21] Speaker 9: Those are two very different questions.
[1:27:23] Speaker 2: I don't know how the judicial system worked.
[1:27:26] Speaker 9: No, no, no, not not what the law was.
[1:27:29] Speaker 2: Is it just in today's standard?
[1:27:32] Speaker 1: No?
[1:27:35] Speaker 9: Does God change what is good and bad? Like God said, yeah,
[1:27:40] Speaker 9: this is great, good choice, and then he changed his
[1:27:42] Speaker 9: mind like, oh, whoop's just kidding? Assault is bad?
[1:27:48] Speaker 2: No. I don't think that he changed his mind. I
[1:27:50] Speaker 2: think that that was there was there was a purpose
[1:27:53] Speaker 2: behind that.
[1:27:54] Speaker 9: So so back then in Bible times, God thought that
[1:27:59] Speaker 9: assault was wrong.
[1:28:01] Speaker 1: We know because Jude Army twenty two says that essay
[1:28:04] Speaker 1: is wrong. But God did something he knew was wrong.
[1:28:11] Speaker 2: It was not God himself that did that. It was
[1:28:13] Speaker 2: most likely individuals that he knew were going to do
[1:28:16] Speaker 2: it regardless.
[1:28:16] Speaker 1: And oh no, it's not true. We'll read it again
[1:28:20] Speaker 1: verse eleven. Thus, saith the Lord. I will raise up
[1:28:23] Speaker 1: trouble against you from within your own house, and I
[1:28:26] Speaker 1: will take your wives before your eyes. Remember this is
[1:28:28] Speaker 1: a punishment for David's actions. God's punishing David, but God's
[1:28:34] Speaker 1: causing it. Duke, this would be the right time to
[1:28:40] Speaker 1: be honest with the passage and just admit how horrible
[1:28:43] Speaker 1: it is. No, yeah, I know, I wouldn't be honest
[1:28:48] Speaker 1: if I was in your shoes either.
[1:28:50] Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I don't think that we'll see out eye
[1:28:54] Speaker 2: on any of this, so I I'll.
[1:28:58] Speaker 1: Be I'll be thinking for you. You don't worry. Have
[1:29:00] Speaker 1: a good one too. It's a shame we thought he
[1:29:06] Speaker 1: was gonna be nice.
[1:29:09] Speaker 9: I've worked up.
[1:29:10] Speaker 1: What do you mean, Sarah, you don't want to be
[1:29:11] Speaker 1: a casualty for a man's sin. I don't know what's
[1:29:14] Speaker 1: wrong with that.
[1:29:18] Speaker 9: I mean, I understand why he has the cognitive dissonance,
[1:29:21] Speaker 9: so I I, on one hand, I know that when
[1:29:25] Speaker 9: you believe something so strongly and suddenly this new piece
[1:29:28] Speaker 9: of information comes at you and you don't know what
[1:29:31] Speaker 9: to do with it. I can. I can understand that
[1:29:35] Speaker 9: part of it. But man, it's it's pretty easy to
[1:29:39] Speaker 9: say that essay is wrong like that. That shouldn't be
[1:29:43] Speaker 9: that hard.
[1:29:44] Speaker 1: That seems like that would be the easiest admission you
[1:29:46] Speaker 1: could make. Is Yeah, yeah, we shouldn't be essaying women
[1:29:49] Speaker 1: for the crimes of their husband. That you shouldn't have
[1:29:51] Speaker 1: to think about that at all.
[1:29:53] Speaker 9: Yeah.
[1:29:54] Speaker 1: Well, I'm wandered a couple of super chats, friends, and
[1:29:56] Speaker 1: we'll get right on into our next guest. We've got one.
[1:30:02] Speaker 1: Thank you for joining me. Sorry we had to end
[1:30:05] Speaker 1: on that note.
[1:30:08] Speaker 9: I know, I was like, no, I gotta go take
[1:30:09] Speaker 9: a walk. I need a break.
[1:30:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah enough, guys, make sure you're following Leaving Faith
[1:30:15] Speaker 1: on YouTube and on tikto. Actually is awesome.
[1:30:18] Speaker 9: Thanks friends.
[1:30:19] Speaker 1: Are you are you doing Salty Saturday tomorrow? Yes?
[1:30:22] Speaker 2: Oh?
[1:30:23] Speaker 1: Hell yeah, all right, guys, tomorrow we're at Sarah's place.
[1:30:29] Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Salty Saturday is awesome, our tin, thank you
[1:30:36] Speaker 1: so much for the super chet friend says, isn't it
[1:30:38] Speaker 1: amazing that despite everyone having a camera on their phone,
[1:30:41] Speaker 1: there are still no verified pictures of miracles or bigfoot?
[1:30:45] Speaker 1: So this is what I've been saying, if in fact
[1:30:47] Speaker 1: the thing was true. In a world where literally everybody
[1:30:50] Speaker 1: has a cell phone with a camera on it at
[1:30:52] Speaker 1: a moment's notice, we should be capturing this nonsense. Unfortunately,
[1:30:56] Speaker 1: we don't actually capture it. We do get some forgeries
[1:30:59] Speaker 1: though everyone's in a while, or like crop circles. Animal
[1:31:03] Speaker 1: farm says, just remember kids to listen to absolute winners
[1:31:06] Speaker 1: like Eliana from yesterday's Live who think burning children as
[1:31:10] Speaker 1: a punishment is swell. Animal Farm. I'll never obviously she's
[1:31:17] Speaker 1: getting clipped, but I will never understand how someone can
[1:31:21] Speaker 1: come to that conclusion. I was shocked as much as
[1:31:24] Speaker 1: you just flabbergasted. My flabber was gasted, friends, Gleam says,
[1:31:30] Speaker 1: do you smell what the rock what Doug is cooking?
[1:31:33] Speaker 1: Stay rock hard for the Rock of Ages, which Bible
[1:31:36] Speaker 1: version is the best for the cheat sheet. Well, Gleam,
[1:31:38] Speaker 1: thank you so so much for the question. Thank you
[1:31:40] Speaker 1: for supporting. I typically use the nrsv UE translation. That's
[1:31:45] Speaker 1: the New Revised Standard Edition. I typically when I'm at home,
[1:31:49] Speaker 1: read from the New Oxford Annotated Bible. I'm on the
[1:31:51] Speaker 1: fifth edition, but the sixth edition is supposed to be
[1:31:54] Speaker 1: out this year. Finally, thank Doug. So keep your eyes
[1:31:57] Speaker 1: open for the sixth edition. I think you'll really really
[1:32:00] Speaker 1: enjoy it. TG. Thank you so much for the supertest,
[1:32:02] Speaker 1: says just the next time a Philbro calls, tell them
[1:32:04] Speaker 1: to eat lots of chocolate so that when they smell
[1:32:07] Speaker 1: their own farts it it would be pleasant for them,
[1:32:10] Speaker 1: not for us. Yeah, absolutely absolutely, I'm with you on
[1:32:15] Speaker 1: that one, and Doug says, hell yeah another day another
[1:32:18] Speaker 1: justin cookout. Well, big w Doug, thank you for being here, friend.
[1:32:21] Speaker 1: And a twenty hour super chat from Bryce A. RONEI
[1:32:24] Speaker 1: thank you so much, friend, says Muslim apologetics never give
[1:32:27] Speaker 1: an argument for Allah to an atheist, because it can
[1:32:30] Speaker 1: be rationalized without presupposing God. Always start with a general theism,
[1:32:35] Speaker 1: which is not how any Muslim arrived at Allah, Philbro first, Actually,
[1:32:39] Speaker 1: Bryce Ronnie, that is the case. In fact, the Muslims
[1:32:42] Speaker 1: will admit this. Whenever you're debating the existence of Allah
[1:32:46] Speaker 1: or debating the Islamic faith, they want to immediately run
[1:32:50] Speaker 1: away to something other than Islam and go to general
[1:32:53] Speaker 1: theism because they know they can't defend Islam. And Mitch says,
[1:32:57] Speaker 1: God created to Satan. Let's be in Eden to trick
[1:33:01] Speaker 1: his new creation. Humans get tricked, and now he justified
[1:33:04] Speaker 1: killing everyone at a time. So loving, yeah, you're right, Mitch.
[1:33:09] Speaker 1: It's crazy that the situation we're in is his fault,
[1:33:12] Speaker 1: but we get punished for it. According to the story
[1:33:14] Speaker 1: Silver Surfer, thank you for the five dollars super thanks,
[1:33:16] Speaker 1: I appreciate that, friend, and Bryce A. Roney again with
[1:33:19] Speaker 1: a twenty dollars super Chat big w friend. He says,
[1:33:21] Speaker 1: the problem with Rommy is he was probably using nefish
[1:33:25] Speaker 1: to refer to life rather than the Christian definition of
[1:33:28] Speaker 1: soul as internal essence. So your question about evidence didn't
[1:33:32] Speaker 1: make sense to him, as life is self evident. You
[1:33:35] Speaker 1: could be right, Bryce A. Roni, So the term nefish
[1:33:38] Speaker 1: refers to either the life force or the soul. I
[1:33:41] Speaker 1: think it's interpreted classically as being a soul. The soul
[1:33:45] Speaker 1: is the life force, itself, but there's certainly a semantic
[1:33:48] Speaker 1: range there, and I can understand why he and I
[1:33:50] Speaker 1: wouldn't have been on the same page. Godwin says dinosaurs
[1:33:53] Speaker 1: had intelligence. Funny how nobody likes to talk about the
[1:33:56] Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of years that size was more successful
[1:33:59] Speaker 1: than intelligence. Actually that's a very good point. There's a
[1:34:02] Speaker 1: lot of intelligence in the world, and sometimes we don't
[1:34:04] Speaker 1: even recognize it as intelligent. DJ Diaper says, always the same,
[1:34:08] Speaker 1: you don't know how well, theist you don't know how either.
[1:34:11] Speaker 1: The Bible tells you your God did it not how
[1:34:14] Speaker 1: so that's the case. All they really have is God
[1:34:16] Speaker 1: of the gaps. So the reality is like, if we're
[1:34:19] Speaker 1: just doing God of the Gaps, I can just say, well, shit,
[1:34:21] Speaker 1: it was a naturalistic force. I don't know how, but
[1:34:23] Speaker 1: that fills my gap, like problem solved. Murrn, thank you
[1:34:28] Speaker 1: for the find dow supertest, says, I don't build the faith,
[1:34:31] Speaker 1: but I'm here for the deconstruction. Rave love your summer schedule.
[1:34:34] Speaker 1: I can listen at work. Well. Thank you so much
[1:34:36] Speaker 1: Maren for listening, and I hope you have a good
[1:34:38] Speaker 1: time at work, and thank you also for supporting the channel.
[1:34:41] Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. And our friend rock Hard for
[1:34:43] Speaker 1: Doug just sent out five Deconstruction Zone memberships. Big W, Rockhard,
[1:34:48] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And Doug Brown says, we'll try this again.
[1:34:52] Speaker 1: Is by far my favorite justinism. You know what I
[1:34:55] Speaker 1: need to do more. I need to do more justinisms
[1:34:58] Speaker 1: and create a vocab book like Ian has his own
[1:35:02] Speaker 1: vocab book. Night Man, my friend, thank you for being here,
[1:35:05] Speaker 1: says I broke the matrix because I am the one.
[1:35:08] Speaker 1: My name is Neo. I is your name really? Neo? Actually? Nightman? Shit, Well,
[1:35:13] Speaker 1: big W for breaking the matrix. And Josh my friend,
[1:35:18] Speaker 1: oh did I just miss what? Renee? Sorry Renee Renee
[1:35:22] Speaker 1: the Renegade says, what do you think is more likely
[1:35:25] Speaker 1: to happen? First? Jesus is the second Coming? Or the
[1:35:26] Speaker 1: Cleveland Browns Championship. Go birds, And as crazy as it sounds,
[1:35:31] Speaker 1: obviously it's gonna be the Cleveland Browns winning the championship
[1:35:36] Speaker 1: because Jesus ain't never coming back. Good question, though, and
[1:35:39] Speaker 1: Jello b Afro says, Christian, stop in doctrinating your children.
[1:35:42] Speaker 1: Let them think for themselves, not gonna happen. You got
[1:35:45] Speaker 1: to train them up right in the way that they'll go,
[1:35:47] Speaker 1: and then they will not depart according to the proverbs.
[1:35:50] Speaker 1: That's the only way to do it. Josh Barbara says,
[1:35:52] Speaker 1: I believe the arc is probably up on MOUNTI and
[1:35:56] Speaker 1: is protected by yetti, or it could be up on
[1:35:58] Speaker 1: old smokey covered and geez, just as likely. Actually, I
[1:36:03] Speaker 1: agree with this sentiment a wholeheartedly. Wholeheartedly agree. And Texas
[1:36:08] Speaker 1: Panhandler says, do I have this right? God gives me
[1:36:11] Speaker 1: an innate dire desire to believe in Him, an objective
[1:36:14] Speaker 1: sense of right and wrong, a sinful nature, a free
[1:36:17] Speaker 1: will all rolled up into one. No wonder Christians are
[1:36:19] Speaker 1: so confused. This is actually pretty good observation like that.
[1:36:22] Speaker 1: There's a reason why they're so confused. It's because the
[1:36:25] Speaker 1: characteristics that we're given don't give us what we actually
[1:36:27] Speaker 1: need to do what we have to do. And Goldlock
[1:36:32] Speaker 1: says Shehale Doug Duke's best evidence is the magical boat
[1:36:39] Speaker 1: he got cooked. I didn't want to cook him. I
[1:36:40] Speaker 1: wanted to be nice to him at first, but once
[1:36:43] Speaker 1: he got into the grape apologetics, it was over. Lewis says,
[1:36:47] Speaker 1: ban all squealers. Get the Steelers fans out of here,
[1:36:50] Speaker 1: sorry Steelers fans. And Cameron, my friend, says justin, I'm
[1:36:53] Speaker 1: getting used to this daytime cooking. You're spoiling us. Thank
[1:36:57] Speaker 1: you for all you do, sir, Well, thank you Cameron
[1:36:58] Speaker 1: for being here in supporting. And I'm gonna cook as
[1:37:01] Speaker 1: much as I can. I'm trying to keep the fire hot.
[1:37:04] Speaker 1: And Chip says people should be required to read and
[1:37:07] Speaker 1: study the entire Holy Book of religion before they're allowed
[1:37:10] Speaker 1: to join it. Rock hard for Doug. Well, Chip, I
[1:37:12] Speaker 1: couldn't agree more. This is what we typically find is
[1:37:15] Speaker 1: people commit to the religion before they've read the actual documents,
[1:37:17] Speaker 1: and then once they're in it, they read the shit
[1:37:20] Speaker 1: and be like, oh no, what did I do? Just
[1:37:23] Speaker 1: read the document first. That's what we should do. Benn,
[1:37:26] Speaker 1: thank you for the double galaxy, big w Fenn, I
[1:37:30] Speaker 1: appreciate that and reclaim thank you so much for the
[1:37:32] Speaker 1: money gone big w TikTok. Friends. All right, let me
[1:37:36] Speaker 1: read just a couple more superchats. We'll get our next
[1:37:38] Speaker 1: guest in here. Sorry, there was a long conversation with
[1:37:41] Speaker 1: Duke and now we've got a bunch of backed up superchats.
[1:37:43] Speaker 1: Trump failed says, just saw a superman four point eight.
[1:37:46] Speaker 1: Now I want to see you and west Fuff go
[1:37:48] Speaker 1: at it a cosmic battle of Holy versus Doug Well
[1:37:51] Speaker 1: Trump failed. I'd love to debate West. I don't think
[1:37:54] Speaker 1: west Fuff, I don't think he's coming. But I can
[1:37:57] Speaker 1: tell you this, he doesn't have any good talking points.
[1:37:59] Speaker 1: He's got this same bad talking points as the other theists,
[1:38:02] Speaker 1: which means despite his education, he's not going to do
[1:38:05] Speaker 1: any better. A carnage Asada, my friend. Thank you so
[1:38:08] Speaker 1: much for the nine ninety nine super chat. Great to
[1:38:10] Speaker 1: see you today, says Duke is indistinct, indistinguishable from a
[1:38:15] Speaker 1: prison pen pal writing unanswered letters to a prolific serial
[1:38:18] Speaker 1: killer and deluding himself into thinking they're misunderstood while refusing
[1:38:22] Speaker 1: to research the case. Holy shit, Uh, Carnes, that might
[1:38:28] Speaker 1: be the best parallel to what we just witnessed that
[1:38:31] Speaker 1: I've ever heard. That is a million percent spot on.
[1:38:34] Speaker 1: Thank you for that gem that was. That was beautiful.
[1:38:38] Speaker 1: And Miko says, let me tell you this from the
[1:38:41] Speaker 1: Biblical point of view. I've nearly read for the books
[1:38:43] Speaker 1: that I know. It's crazy that he that they'll get
[1:38:47] Speaker 1: up and defend the Bible having not really read it. Hadassa,
[1:38:51] Speaker 1: Hadassa's concubine. Thank you sover for the super chest, says
[1:38:54] Speaker 1: Hadassa has my spine tingling to day. Must be the Condalini.
[1:38:57] Speaker 1: This job is mostly horrible, but it has it stays
[1:39:00] Speaker 1: all hail the prophetess. She makes me say this. I
[1:39:04] Speaker 1: apologize that your Hardasa's concubine, but at least you're in
[1:39:08] Speaker 1: her books. She at least writes about you, so you'll
[1:39:11] Speaker 1: live on for well, as long as the books live on.
[1:39:14] Speaker 1: Melanitis says, I'm thinking about getting a desk mat from
[1:39:17] Speaker 1: your shop. Convinced me that I should. By the way,
[1:39:20] Speaker 1: do you ship to Poland? Shout out from Poland? Well, Melaniitis,
[1:39:24] Speaker 1: you should get it if you want it. I'm not
[1:39:27] Speaker 1: here to convince anyone to get anything from the shop.
[1:39:29] Speaker 1: If you want it, you should get it. And as
[1:39:31] Speaker 1: far as I'm aware, it will ship the Poland. But
[1:39:34] Speaker 1: if not, you can just use a deconstruction cheat sheet.
[1:39:36] Speaker 1: You you don't have to get the map. Alex says
[1:39:39] Speaker 1: someone needs to explain to Duke that women were in
[1:39:42] Speaker 1: fact still people back in Bible times. Yeah, isn't that crazy?
[1:39:45] Speaker 2: That?
[1:39:46] Speaker 1: Like when men are pressed on some of these passages.
[1:39:50] Speaker 1: They they resort to this subconscious mindset that they're not
[1:39:56] Speaker 1: real people. It's so weird. Orsman says, Duke, you got
[1:39:59] Speaker 1: Sarah upset? You fed up? Yep? That's right?
[1:40:02] Speaker 5: Or is mom?
[1:40:03] Speaker 1: He fucked a big time when you upset Sarah. Now
[1:40:05] Speaker 1: you know you really screwed up. Evan says, that was
[1:40:07] Speaker 1: tough to listen to, and Evan, we're with you. That
[1:40:10] Speaker 1: was really tough to listen to. Snicker Noodle says, But
[1:40:14] Speaker 1: God had a plan for David. That's all that mattered, right,
[1:40:17] Speaker 1: Who gives a crap about a woman's life? That guy
[1:40:19] Speaker 1: pissed me off, and it should, Snickerdoodle, it should. The
[1:40:22] Speaker 1: fact that God would spare David, the guy who committed
[1:40:26] Speaker 1: the horrible sin, so he could teach the bad guy
[1:40:30] Speaker 1: a lesson and harm the women who didn't do anything.
[1:40:35] Speaker 1: Erzma says, I don't think we will see eye to
[1:40:36] Speaker 1: eye on this. What that saying is bad? What the actually? Yeah,
[1:40:41] Speaker 1: isn't that crazy? Isn't that crazy that someone like we
[1:40:43] Speaker 1: can stand up here to say we shouldn't sexually assault
[1:40:45] Speaker 1: women and they'll say, well, we're not gonna see eye
[1:40:47] Speaker 1: to eye on this. The fuck we won't. No, we won't.
[1:40:51] Speaker 1: TG says, every soul burning hell is an internal, shining
[1:40:53] Speaker 1: example of God's ultimate failure. Robert g ingersold, I haven't
[1:40:57] Speaker 1: heard that. That's a really good one, rock Hard for Doug,
[1:41:00] Speaker 1: thank you for that. And that is that's a really
[1:41:03] Speaker 1: good that's a really good quote. And Josh Josh says,
[1:41:07] Speaker 1: God didn't give me the black eye if I fell
[1:41:08] Speaker 1: down the stairs. Christianity is stock home syndrome. Jason says,
[1:41:16] Speaker 1: is this a repeat? I must be oding on Sharon's
[1:41:19] Speaker 1: for whom I'm rock hard. It's always the same argument, Jason,
[1:41:22] Speaker 1: You're not now odeing. It is always the same argument.
[1:41:26] Speaker 1: They don't have any good arguments, or any new arguments,
[1:41:29] Speaker 1: or just a couple more few super tech friends. Eric says, oh,
[1:41:32] Speaker 1: why don't more Bible scholars become atheists like you? Like
[1:41:35] Speaker 1: you did? Do you ever worry about your interpretation is
[1:41:38] Speaker 1: wrong because you are in the minority. Actually, Eric, I'm
[1:41:40] Speaker 1: not in the minority. So that's where people get confused.
[1:41:43] Speaker 1: I'm not in the minority. The majority of Bible scholars
[1:41:46] Speaker 1: I've ever met are technically cause it agnostics, and that's
[1:41:50] Speaker 1: the truth of it, because they don't believe the Bible
[1:41:52] Speaker 1: word for word. There are very few fully educated people,
[1:41:57] Speaker 1: especially in the Old Testament, that believe it literal. Space
[1:42:01] Speaker 1: Lord said, Step one, set up in a fallen world,
[1:42:03] Speaker 1: Step two, Step three, prophet. Actually that is the case.
[1:42:10] Speaker 1: Give all your money to the church. Colin says, why
[1:42:12] Speaker 1: is there such a vitual hatred from Islam and some
[1:42:14] Speaker 1: Christians towards my queer community. Is it justified in their books? Well, Colin,
[1:42:19] Speaker 1: I don't know if it's justified in the Koran, but
[1:42:21] Speaker 1: it is in the Bible. Leviticus eighteen and Leviticus twenty
[1:42:24] Speaker 1: and Romans chapter one all condemn it. You might also
[1:42:27] Speaker 1: be able to lump in Judges chapter nineteen as well.
[1:42:32] Speaker 1: Kenneth says, bait and switch. We did it rock hard
[1:42:34] Speaker 1: for Doug. I tried the bait and switch, Kenneth, I
[1:42:37] Speaker 1: tried so much. I tried. I think he caught on
[1:42:39] Speaker 1: to me. Nightman come and says, Sarah is so awesome
[1:42:42] Speaker 1: at these conversations and showing the cognitive dissonance that all
[1:42:45] Speaker 1: these Christians have.
[1:42:46] Speaker 2: She is.
[1:42:47] Speaker 1: She's awesome at these discussions. By the way, she's amazing.
[1:42:51] Speaker 1: She always adds value to every place she goes. Rainbow
[1:42:54] Speaker 1: Wolf says, let's say it the Lord, Doug, I shall
[1:42:57] Speaker 1: send my rock rough and Rock and they shall smite
[1:43:01] Speaker 1: the apologist and bring calamity upon their industry. That's a
[1:43:05] Speaker 1: good one, Rainbow, that's a good use of words. And
[1:43:08] Speaker 1: we are shattering the industry. That's happening for sure. Josh says,
[1:43:12] Speaker 1: guest has head up easter. Yeah, lack of O two
[1:43:17] Speaker 1: to brain. That could explain it. Yeah, he couldn't breathe
[1:43:20] Speaker 1: properly because his head was so up. His rear skeptic.
[1:43:23] Speaker 1: Good to see, my friend, says dude, Jim Jones. Ways
[1:43:25] Speaker 1: aren't your ways either. Your special pleading makes you look
[1:43:28] Speaker 1: like a monster. Yeah yeah, special pleading for what he
[1:43:31] Speaker 1: was pleading for too, is the worst. Carlos, my friend,
[1:43:34] Speaker 1: thank you for sending out ten Deconstruction Zone membership. That's huge, Carlos.
[1:43:38] Speaker 1: Great to see you today, my friend. I've got three
[1:43:41] Speaker 1: more super chats from Dave. Dave says, this guy is horrible.
[1:43:44] Speaker 1: I pray to Doug he gets rocked. Your patience is
[1:43:46] Speaker 1: truly amazing. Well, thank you, Dave. I appreciate that. And
[1:43:49] Speaker 1: it's hard listening to these clowns. Jason says, I'm sure
[1:43:53] Speaker 1: there's a good reason for atrocity. Yeah, there's always a
[1:43:56] Speaker 1: good reason. I can't tell you what the reason is,
[1:43:58] Speaker 1: but I'm sure the God has a reason. Well, you
[1:44:01] Speaker 1: don't know that. And last one from David Burke, David,
[1:44:04] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the twenty hours super chests.
[1:44:06] Speaker 1: Is objective morality. A Christian jury should have not convict
[1:44:10] Speaker 1: should I think should not should not convict mothers who kill,
[1:44:14] Speaker 1: women who killed their children because God told him to children,
[1:44:18] Speaker 1: because God told them to. Deanna Laney Lorie follow to
[1:44:24] Speaker 1: name two. Okay, David, I think I followed you. Yes,
[1:44:30] Speaker 1: there was a woman who executed her children because she
[1:44:33] Speaker 1: thought God told her to. And according to the Bible,
[1:44:36] Speaker 1: you can make the case that that was something God
[1:44:38] Speaker 1: would do. You can make that case and that she's
[1:44:41] Speaker 1: not crazy. The Bible has that amount of allowance in it.
[1:44:46] Speaker 1: So there is that. Holy shit, I got so many superchats, guys.
[1:44:49] Speaker 1: I apologize if we're going to get backed up, but
[1:44:52] Speaker 1: I'm going to get the next caller in here and
[1:44:54] Speaker 1: we'll try to catch up. After the next call, we'll
[1:44:57] Speaker 1: see what happens. We've got well e with us. How
[1:45:01] Speaker 1: you do it all?
[1:45:03] Speaker 24: Hey, good evening, justin How are you good?
[1:45:05] Speaker 1: Are you.
[1:45:07] Speaker 2: Good?
[1:45:09] Speaker 1: I am above eighteen very good. Are you a believer?
[1:45:13] Speaker 13: I only believe in the One, the One, Rock, the.
[1:45:17] Speaker 2: Dog of course.
[1:45:20] Speaker 1: Shell Doug.
[1:45:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, of course.
[1:45:23] Speaker 25: Actually I was raised Catholic, but nobody in my country
[1:45:27] Speaker 25: is kind of practicing their beliefs. It's in Europe and Belgium,
[1:45:32] Speaker 25: so it's very strange to hear all these crazy people
[1:45:36] Speaker 25: calling in.
[1:45:37] Speaker 3: I'm not used to them.
[1:45:39] Speaker 1: Welcome to America, buddy, it's wild over here.
[1:45:42] Speaker 25: Did you have a question, Yeah, I guess I know.
[1:45:46] Speaker 26: I just wanted to say thank you.
[1:45:48] Speaker 24: I'm reading the Bible right now.
[1:45:51] Speaker 25: For the first time in my life, just to know
[1:45:53] Speaker 25: what people believe and actually never read, I guess, so
[1:45:57] Speaker 25: thank you for all the work you do.
[1:45:59] Speaker 1: Well big that w so I appreciate that. Is it Ali?
[1:46:03] Speaker 1: Or how do your name?
[1:46:06] Speaker 2: Ola? Okay, something like that?
[1:46:10] Speaker 1: Well, thanks for.
[1:46:13] Speaker 13: I want to coin the phrase or the term friar.
[1:46:17] Speaker 13: I think that you are a friar.
[1:46:19] Speaker 2: If you want to start your own religion.
[1:46:22] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Yeah, friar would be a good definition.
[1:46:25] Speaker 1: That's a good plan on words, all right, trus friend.
[1:46:29] Speaker 1: Good to hear from you okay, Friar deconstruction zone. I
[1:46:35] Speaker 1: can get into that. That's not a bad one. I'm
[1:46:37] Speaker 1: going to read exactly four super chats and then looks
[1:46:40] Speaker 1: like we're going to get Mike in here. Andy says,
[1:46:43] Speaker 1: so said that these people have to say, have to
[1:46:46] Speaker 1: say that killing innocent women is okay, so they can
[1:46:50] Speaker 1: stay in lackstep with their cult. There is no context
[1:46:52] Speaker 1: where this is okay. Kudos for trying to educate people. Well,
[1:46:55] Speaker 1: thank you, Andy, I appreciate that. And that's the hard
[1:46:57] Speaker 1: part is you know, you can tell deep down in
[1:46:59] Speaker 1: his voice that he knows it's wrong. He just can't
[1:47:01] Speaker 1: admit it. He can't be honest with himself. I hope
[1:47:04] Speaker 1: he's laying awake at night thinking about this conversation. And Doc,
[1:47:08] Speaker 1: thank you for the twenty hour super chat. Huge, my
[1:47:10] Speaker 1: friend says, so just to recap God's eternal morality somehow
[1:47:14] Speaker 1: evolves over time, needed slave laws to warm up, and
[1:47:17] Speaker 1: now finally aligns with twenty first century ethics.
[1:47:19] Speaker 3: Cool.
[1:47:20] Speaker 1: Can't wait for Lividica's two point zero now with Wi
[1:47:22] Speaker 1: Fi and women's rights. No, no, no, Doc, it might
[1:47:25] Speaker 1: have Wi Fi, it will not have rights for women.
[1:47:28] Speaker 1: You know this you know this about Christianity. Good super chat, though,
[1:47:32] Speaker 1: thank you, And Kyle says, what do you think of
[1:47:34] Speaker 1: cellular memory? How if someone gets an organ transplant, they
[1:47:38] Speaker 1: start to take on the behaviors of the person they
[1:47:40] Speaker 1: had at previous organ. Oh, I don't know anything about this.
[1:47:43] Speaker 1: This would be a question for Sarah. She's a physiologist
[1:47:47] Speaker 1: when it comes to biological questions. I'm not your guy,
[1:47:50] Speaker 1: but there's a really good question, Kyle. Next time Sarah's around,
[1:47:53] Speaker 1: I'd love to hear an answer for that. And Mike,
[1:47:57] Speaker 1: thank you for the super chat, my friend, thank you
[1:47:59] Speaker 1: for the ten hours. He says, what's your take on
[1:48:00] Speaker 1: the Good Samaritan? Was always taught in the church that
[1:48:05] Speaker 1: means everyone is your neighbor. But it seems like your
[1:48:07] Speaker 1: neighbor is who has mercy on you or Jesus just dodged. Okay.
[1:48:12] Speaker 1: My take on the Good Samaritan is that he's saying
[1:48:15] Speaker 1: even your enemy is your neighbor, right, because the Samaritans
[1:48:18] Speaker 1: were essentially kind of at odds with the Jews. So
[1:48:22] Speaker 1: that's my take on it. I could be persuaded to
[1:48:25] Speaker 1: believe something different if a good argument appeared. I haven't
[1:48:28] Speaker 1: heard one, but that's my take on it. Are gonna
[1:48:32] Speaker 1: get Mike in here? How you do the Mike? Hey?
[1:48:37] Speaker 3: Am I up?
[1:48:38] Speaker 2: I didn't hear any I can't see anything. Okay.
[1:48:41] Speaker 1: I don't know if you'll be able to see anything,
[1:48:42] Speaker 1: but you should be able to hear me.
[1:48:44] Speaker 27: Oh I hear you. Just fine, just fine. Uh, first
[1:48:47] Speaker 27: time coming in. I've watched your stuff a little bit,
[1:48:51] Speaker 27: not in great length, but I'm an atheist. I didn't
[1:48:54] Speaker 27: know if Christians got first DIBs or what the deal was.
[1:48:56] Speaker 1: But well, typically this is a debate stream, so we
[1:48:59] Speaker 1: try to keep it to debates. But if you have
[1:49:01] Speaker 1: a question, I'm happy to answer it.
[1:49:04] Speaker 27: I did, and I was curious of your title if
[1:49:08] Speaker 27: it's on purpose. Do you ever get called out for
[1:49:10] Speaker 27: being a reversal burden of proof?
[1:49:13] Speaker 3: Uh?
[1:49:13] Speaker 1: Yeah, That's why I have the phrase prove me wrong,
[1:49:15] Speaker 1: because so when I say your God is imaginary, there
[1:49:20] Speaker 1: are two things happening here. I'm saying your specific god
[1:49:23] Speaker 1: is imaginary, and almost all specific gods I can debunk.
[1:49:27] Speaker 1: It's not even hard. The only god that you really
[1:49:30] Speaker 1: can't debunk is like the deistic God. But that's nonsense,
[1:49:34] Speaker 1: because a deistic god doesn't give a shit if I
[1:49:35] Speaker 1: believe in him.
[1:49:37] Speaker 27: Right, right, exactly, it's completely different primis in the first place.
[1:49:44] Speaker 1: So that's why I say your God not a god,
[1:49:47] Speaker 1: because I mean, theoretically there could be an argument for
[1:49:50] Speaker 1: a god. It also prevents people from running away to
[1:49:54] Speaker 1: the deistic god, even though I know they have a
[1:49:56] Speaker 1: real god.
[1:49:58] Speaker 16: Gotcha, gotcha?
[1:50:00] Speaker 27: And I was I was told by somebody now and
[1:50:06] Speaker 27: I can't. Maybe it's just I can't get it through
[1:50:08] Speaker 27: my head or I'm not understanding it properly. Like deism
[1:50:12] Speaker 27: is a subset of theism. It's part of theism, but
[1:50:16] Speaker 27: I don't see how that clicks in my brain. It
[1:50:19] Speaker 27: just doesn't click, right, Is that correct or not?
[1:50:21] Speaker 1: I don't think so. I means is a very specific
[1:50:25] Speaker 1: god concept. It's more like Spinoza's God, and the god
[1:50:29] Speaker 1: is almost akin to just the force of nature, right right.
[1:50:34] Speaker 27: It's a god that kind of created everything and then
[1:50:37] Speaker 27: kind of ft off to points wherever it doesn't necessarily care.
[1:50:41] Speaker 27: And the theistic because there's very specific descriptions of any
[1:50:47] Speaker 27: god that right.
[1:50:48] Speaker 1: Right, That's how I would Yeah, okay, so.
[1:50:54] Speaker 27: Yeah, I just I was curious about the title, and
[1:50:56] Speaker 27: you clarified that for me. I don't want to monopolize
[1:50:59] Speaker 27: your time if it's you want Christians debating more than that.
[1:51:03] Speaker 27: But I appreciate you getting me up.
[1:51:05] Speaker 1: Cheers, buddy, Thanks for waiting.
[1:51:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks going you too. Yeah.
[1:51:12] Speaker 1: I do get harassed on the title of the live
[1:51:14] Speaker 1: stream of by believers pretty often, not really by believers,
[1:51:19] Speaker 1: but almost always by philosophy bros. Welcome in mot is
[1:51:22] Speaker 1: it moss yep? Welcome in Mossy. I can hear your moss.
[1:51:29] Speaker 1: Are you at least eighteen and are you a believer?
[1:51:31] Speaker 2: I am at least eighteen, but I'm not a believer.
[1:51:35] Speaker 1: Okay, Well we're we're we're just doing debates here, Okay.
[1:51:39] Speaker 28: Yeah, we're okay, I'm playing with that. I'm anast Okay,
[1:51:47] Speaker 28: but just doing debates. Okay, yeah, yeah, of course I
[1:51:50] Speaker 28: try to stick to debates.
[1:51:52] Speaker 2: I have.
[1:51:54] Speaker 1: Okay, move on to John. I don't see anyone in
[1:51:58] Speaker 1: the TIKTOKQ. If you're watching on TikTok you can hit
[1:52:01] Speaker 1: the guests request and you can get in, just like
[1:52:03] Speaker 1: all of the prior guests. John, are you least eighteen
[1:52:07] Speaker 1: and are you a believer? John? Johney? Are you present?
[1:52:17] Speaker 1: Are you with us? John? Anybody, no one home. I
[1:52:27] Speaker 1: can hear you.
[1:52:27] Speaker 29: Now, Okay, okay, okay, John, So I don't, but I
[1:52:35] Speaker 29: was listening.
[1:52:36] Speaker 13: I can listening to your show.
[1:52:37] Speaker 29: For weeks week now and I really like it. But
[1:52:41] Speaker 29: I sometimes feel like some people someone christen to call in.
[1:52:47] Speaker 1: To be honest with you, John, we're trying to find
[1:52:49] Speaker 1: believers here that we can that we can debate.
[1:52:52] Speaker 29: Okay, I understand, but I just think that the last
[1:52:57] Speaker 29: about the why the.
[1:53:00] Speaker 1: All right, guys, there are boundaries here. I don't know
[1:53:03] Speaker 1: what to tell you. I love that they are atheists watching,
[1:53:07] Speaker 1: but this is not a group discussion. I appreciate you
[1:53:10] Speaker 1: guys being here, but everyone's here to watch a debate,
[1:53:13] Speaker 1: so we got to get the debates going. If you're
[1:53:15] Speaker 1: watching on TikTok, you can join debate using the guest request,
[1:53:21] Speaker 1: assuming you've got Holy Spirit power. If you're watching on
[1:53:24] Speaker 1: YouTube or anywhere else, there's a link in the description
[1:53:27] Speaker 1: that you can use to get into the guest queue.
[1:53:29] Speaker 1: You can also use the links on the screen. If
[1:53:30] Speaker 1: you're on horizontal, it's that way. If you're on vertical,
[1:53:33] Speaker 1: it's that way. You can find the link TinyURL dot com.
[1:53:37] Speaker 1: Forward slash guest DZ. You can get right into the
[1:53:41] Speaker 1: guest queue. So it looks like we're onto lightly dark.
[1:53:48] Speaker 1: Are you with us? Dark?
[1:53:49] Speaker 2: Hello?
[1:53:50] Speaker 1: How are you doing dark? How are you doing doing good?
[1:53:54] Speaker 1: Are you pretty good?
[1:53:57] Speaker 4: Question?
[1:53:57] Speaker 2: I'm I'm eighteen right, Okay?
[1:54:00] Speaker 1: What's your overall goal with your Are you a believer
[1:54:03] Speaker 1: in educate?
[1:54:04] Speaker 2: Are you trying to educate?
[1:54:05] Speaker 1: Are you a believer trying to humiliate? Are you a believer?
[1:54:07] Speaker 2: That's a question? Please, I'm me first. Okay, you answered.
[1:54:11] Speaker 1: It's not you first. You're in the wrong place for that,
[1:54:13] Speaker 1: not your live stream. You don't get to control the conversation.
[1:54:16] Speaker 1: You don't like what I'm doing, you can fuck all
[1:54:18] Speaker 1: the way off, all right, we'll grab the next one.
[1:54:22] Speaker 1: Looks like Reverend Danger, Reverend Danger, did you mean to
[1:54:25] Speaker 1: be up here? It looks like you've got a bad connection.
[1:54:27] Speaker 1: I feel like we've done this three days in a row. Now,
[1:54:29] Speaker 1: Reverend Danger. Where it looks like you're in the guest cue,
[1:54:31] Speaker 1: but you're not actually there. And then I try to
[1:54:33] Speaker 1: put you on the screen and you're not actually on
[1:54:35] Speaker 1: the screen. Do you just do you live in a
[1:54:37] Speaker 1: place where you don't have Wi Fi? What's going on
[1:54:39] Speaker 1: over there?
[1:54:43] Speaker 2: No?
[1:54:44] Speaker 1: All right, I got to remove you, buddy. I feel
[1:54:47] Speaker 1: like I've tried to get Reverend Danger in the conversation
[1:54:50] Speaker 1: like the last three days, and it was the same
[1:54:52] Speaker 1: thing every single time. Okay, we'll get Moss. Didn't we
[1:54:58] Speaker 1: just talk to Moss?
[1:55:00] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[1:55:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, but we got disconnected somehow. I don't know why.
[1:55:04] Speaker 1: No I cut you? Is I think what happened? Moss?
[1:55:06] Speaker 1: We're doing debates, okay, yeah, but I was trying to
[1:55:10] Speaker 1: propose the debates, but you're not. You don't believe in
[1:55:13] Speaker 1: a god.
[1:55:15] Speaker 2: I don't.
[1:55:16] Speaker 1: Okay, so we're debating people that believe in God's Moss.
[1:55:21] Speaker 28: Yeah, but I was trying to propose like an like
[1:55:23] Speaker 28: a sort of role player where nah, you justify the
[1:55:26] Speaker 28: things that God do.
[1:55:29] Speaker 1: Now pass? All right, cheers, what you do? Thanks man.
[1:55:37] Speaker 1: We feel bad I have to cut them. But we
[1:55:39] Speaker 1: don't do roleplay here, friends. We don't debate people. We
[1:55:42] Speaker 1: don't do like the devil advocate debate situation, like you
[1:55:44] Speaker 1: actually have to believe the nonsense to get up on
[1:55:47] Speaker 1: the stage. Anyways, we just cleared out our guest Q
[1:55:51] Speaker 1: on TikTok and YouTube ship. We only been lying for
[1:55:55] Speaker 1: two hours. This is weird. We usually we have lots
[1:55:57] Speaker 1: of people to debate. If you think that God is
[1:56:00] Speaker 1: real and you think I'm a hack, and you can
[1:56:04] Speaker 1: prove me wrong, I would love for you guys to
[1:56:06] Speaker 1: go ahead and give it your best shot. Until then,
[1:56:08] Speaker 1: I want to read a couple of super chats and
[1:56:10] Speaker 1: see if anyone will populate our guest box. Crucifix Me
[1:56:14] Speaker 1: says David's dowry. Two hundred tips for one girl. Kundalini. Yeah,
[1:56:20] Speaker 1: God loves those foreskins. They're like a kind like the
[1:56:24] Speaker 1: cousin of the chitlins, you know what I mean. And
[1:56:29] Speaker 1: pork pork Robin, Good to see you, Frid says Trichotomy
[1:56:34] Speaker 1: of apologists too dumb to understand contradiction, too scared to
[1:56:38] Speaker 1: face it, or too fine with God being unjust? Actually
[1:56:42] Speaker 1: that I think all three are true?
[1:56:45] Speaker 21: Is it not?
[1:56:46] Speaker 1: Is it not all three that being true? I'm with
[1:56:47] Speaker 1: you there, Sam Schmooley says, the Holy Spirit, I'm sorry.
[1:56:52] Speaker 1: The only spirit to have belief in is cracking. I agree,
[1:56:56] Speaker 1: I do believe in cracking and whiskey. I'm with you,
[1:56:59] Speaker 1: Frum and whiskey is my jam. Praise Doug and the
[1:57:02] Speaker 1: rock Hard Trinity A Doug to that big w for
[1:57:07] Speaker 1: the kraken and the whiskey, and eighty percent eighty percent mollusk.
[1:57:15] Speaker 1: It is a wild name. Eighty percent mollusc supername, says
[1:57:21] Speaker 1: Google report on slavery and Racism in the History of
[1:57:25] Speaker 1: the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. That's the source of modern
[1:57:29] Speaker 1: slavery apologetics. Oh, I believe it. I've read a lot
[1:57:33] Speaker 1: of these modern slavery apologetics, and you're right. But there's
[1:57:36] Speaker 1: also documents from the early Southern Baptist convention trying to
[1:57:41] Speaker 1: justify it. Okay, I think we might have somebody back
[1:57:44] Speaker 1: in our guest box. Let me read three super chats.
[1:57:47] Speaker 1: We'll get them in here. We debate. Listen, we do too.
[1:57:50] Speaker 1: Thanks for being here, says I'm a Christian. I love
[1:57:51] Speaker 1: your content. Makes me think and search for answers and
[1:57:55] Speaker 1: really dive into the Bible and look at scientific studies.
[1:57:58] Speaker 1: Thank you, well, we debate. Thank you. I used to
[1:58:01] Speaker 1: watch these types of debates when I was younger as well,
[1:58:03] Speaker 1: and I liked them, even though I was on the
[1:58:05] Speaker 1: other side. I think they're they can be enjoyable and educational.
[1:58:10] Speaker 1: Nightman Coming says. Neo is a reference to a character
[1:58:12] Speaker 1: in the movie of the Matrix. I didn't know that much. Actually,
[1:58:15] Speaker 1: one of the best II Fi action movies of all time.
[1:58:17] Speaker 1: I highly recommend. So I'm a millennial, which means I
[1:58:20] Speaker 1: actually do know that movie. That's one pop culture reference
[1:58:22] Speaker 1: that I know. But thank you for explaining for all
[1:58:25] Speaker 1: the youngins and Ellis. Campaigna says you need to add
[1:58:28] Speaker 1: the Mortal Kombat whoop see. Anytime theists start digging their
[1:58:31] Speaker 1: own grave, maybe a dug animation. Oh my gosh, this
[1:58:35] Speaker 1: is so true. All Right, while I'm talking to the
[1:58:37] Speaker 1: next guest, I'm gonna go download that sound bit, that
[1:58:41] Speaker 1: SoundBite of the Mortal Kombat whoop see. I'm going to
[1:58:45] Speaker 1: get John in the guest box. How you doing, John?
[1:58:48] Speaker 14: All right?
[1:58:49] Speaker 21: Can you hear me?
[1:58:49] Speaker 1: Yeah? I can hear him. All right, John, are you
[1:58:53] Speaker 1: least eight seen? And are you a believer?
[1:58:55] Speaker 16: Yeah?
[1:58:56] Speaker 1: Awesome? And what God do you believe in?
[1:58:59] Speaker 24: A personal God?
[1:59:01] Speaker 1: Does it have a name?
[1:59:04] Speaker 24: I give it an adjective. More than anything, I would
[1:59:06] Speaker 24: call it a.
[1:59:07] Speaker 1: Weave, I'm sorry, a weave, yes, like a hair weave
[1:59:12] Speaker 1: or a net weave.
[1:59:13] Speaker 24: No, just just an abstract concept of weaving. I give
[1:59:18] Speaker 24: it an adjective.
[1:59:19] Speaker 1: Does it think.
[1:59:22] Speaker 24: It thinks through me, It thinks in my head.
[1:59:25] Speaker 1: So it's it's you. You're the God.
[1:59:27] Speaker 24: It's a it's a personal god. Though and throughout my life,
[1:59:30] Speaker 24: all my journeys have taught me that that's God, and
[1:59:34] Speaker 24: I'm not going to deny that.
[1:59:36] Speaker 1: Do you think it could just be an inner voice?
[1:59:38] Speaker 24: Absolutely? Absolutely, But I'm not willing to conceive that after
[1:59:42] Speaker 24: a lifetime of learning.
[1:59:44] Speaker 1: So how do you know the difference between an inner
[1:59:47] Speaker 1: monologue and a deity?
[1:59:49] Speaker 24: Well, I think I may have had an inter dialogue,
[1:59:52] Speaker 24: and now I just I don't want to say I
[1:59:54] Speaker 24: hear voices, but I'm in constant struggle with my own
[1:59:59] Speaker 24: subconscious try and to decipher what I would think is
[2:00:01] Speaker 24: God's message.
[2:00:05] Speaker 1: So do you know that there are certain people that
[2:00:08] Speaker 1: are predisposed to have these types of spiritual experiences?
[2:00:13] Speaker 24: Absolutely, I'm pretty old. I'm forty five. I'm not a
[2:00:18] Speaker 24: student of philosophy or religion or anything. I'm the type
[2:00:20] Speaker 24: of person. I've read the Bible front to back. I've
[2:00:23] Speaker 24: harped on religion a lot, which is obviously part of
[2:00:25] Speaker 24: my problem. I mean revelation, and I've looked at other
[2:00:29] Speaker 24: people's philosophies throughout my life, not taken in the full
[2:00:34] Speaker 24: information of it, but getting a good understanding of it.
[2:00:36] Speaker 24: And it's just like I said, I just have a
[2:00:39] Speaker 24: belief in God.
[2:00:42] Speaker 1: Sure, No, I know you believe in God. I'm trying
[2:00:44] Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of why you think what
[2:00:47] Speaker 1: you think about God.
[2:00:49] Speaker 21: Okay.
[2:00:50] Speaker 24: I was raised in the Catholic Church. I wasn't confirmed
[2:00:54] Speaker 24: or anything, but I've always held those Christian ideals with me,
[2:00:59] Speaker 24: I guess even though I'm not Christian.
[2:01:00] Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Right, but you don't believe in the Christian God.
[2:01:04] Speaker 1: You believe in the God that I'm inside of you?
[2:01:07] Speaker 5: Right?
[2:01:08] Speaker 2: No, no, no, okay, all right.
[2:01:10] Speaker 1: So then the question I'm still trying to figure out
[2:01:13] Speaker 1: here is how do you know the difference between a
[2:01:17] Speaker 1: God and an inner monologue? Like what would be a
[2:01:21] Speaker 1: reason to believe that.
[2:01:21] Speaker 24: It's actually He's kick on? Let me cut it off,
[2:01:30] Speaker 24: all right.
[2:01:30] Speaker 5: I'm back.
[2:01:31] Speaker 24: Like I said, I think I've had an inner dialogue
[2:01:35] Speaker 24: before that I was confused by and I confronted it,
[2:01:40] Speaker 24: and now I just basically talk to myself in my
[2:01:43] Speaker 24: head because I feel like my own subconscious got God's
[2:01:46] Speaker 24: message wrong.
[2:01:50] Speaker 1: No, I'm trying to figure out why you think it's
[2:01:53] Speaker 1: God and not an internal monologue, because I have an
[2:01:58] Speaker 1: internal monologue.
[2:01:59] Speaker 24: I don't think it's Yeah, I don't think mine is
[2:02:02] Speaker 24: just an internal monologue.
[2:02:04] Speaker 1: Right, That's why I'm asking, like, why do you think
[2:02:07] Speaker 1: that it's God? Rather than an internal monologue, the.
[2:02:11] Speaker 24: Voice itself would not be God. It would be all
[2:02:14] Speaker 24: nature and my thoughts combining my subconscious trying to spit
[2:02:18] Speaker 24: it out and tell me. But I feel that's coming
[2:02:21] Speaker 24: from God.
[2:02:22] Speaker 1: All right, let me let me let me back up.
[2:02:25] Speaker 1: What tests could you run to determine if somebody's inner
[2:02:29] Speaker 1: monologue was in fact from a God? How could you
[2:02:31] Speaker 1: verify it?
[2:02:35] Speaker 24: What's there's there's two things that I've heard. I'm sorry,
[2:02:38] Speaker 24: but well, I believe in actual projection and stuff like that.
[2:02:45] Speaker 24: It's difficult to prove actual projection because once you're on
[2:02:48] Speaker 24: the spot, I mean, it's going to obviously interrupt the
[2:02:50] Speaker 24: chemical processes that allow it.
[2:02:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, have you asked for projections?
[2:02:56] Speaker 24: If you can actual project then I believe that it's
[2:02:58] Speaker 24: more than just an inner monolog Because if you have
[2:03:01] Speaker 24: an inner monologue that's telling you stuff to do and
[2:03:05] Speaker 24: you can't do anything, nothing's really happening. But if you
[2:03:07] Speaker 24: can do things like actual project then there might be
[2:03:10] Speaker 24: something more to it.
[2:03:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, have you astro projected?
[2:03:16] Speaker 24: I've never. I mean, dreams are dreams. I'm not gonna
[2:03:18] Speaker 24: sit here and say I flew my spirit around, but
[2:03:21] Speaker 24: it feels like it sometimes. But I believe in actual projection.
[2:03:26] Speaker 1: Okay, even though you've never done it.
[2:03:28] Speaker 24: I think I have. I wouldn't call it that because
[2:03:30] Speaker 24: I could easily call it a dream.
[2:03:32] Speaker 1: What's the difference between a dream and astro projection.
[2:03:35] Speaker 24: I'm not a scientist. I haven't studied it.
[2:03:39] Speaker 1: Why would anyone believe that this stuff is true?
[2:03:43] Speaker 24: They shouldn't, but I do.
[2:03:45] Speaker 1: What shape do you think the earth is?
[2:03:48] Speaker 24: Let's say sphere.
[2:03:50] Speaker 1: It's a good start. How do you verify that there
[2:03:55] Speaker 1: is God causing your voice.
[2:04:04] Speaker 24: Through all the philosophy?
[2:04:05] Speaker 2: How do I verify?
[2:04:12] Speaker 24: Because I'm still here and I've done a lot of
[2:04:14] Speaker 24: dumb things that have let me down, dumb paths, And
[2:04:16] Speaker 24: if I listen and feel the correct vibration, I get
[2:04:20] Speaker 24: out of trouble a lot. And I don't feel that's
[2:04:22] Speaker 24: just me and my subconscious or a collective subconscious.
[2:04:26] Speaker 1: What do you think of vibration?
[2:04:27] Speaker 24: Is everything. Everything is nothing but vibrations, matter, energy, Everything
[2:04:36] Speaker 24: is nothing but vibrations. That's why I call God weave.
[2:04:40] Speaker 1: What's the difference between your feelings, like the chemical reactions
[2:04:45] Speaker 1: happening inside of your body and the vibrations that are
[2:04:48] Speaker 1: around us that come from the physical world.
[2:04:53] Speaker 24: I think most you look at the double solid experiment
[2:04:57] Speaker 24: with the particle and the wave duality not a part
[2:05:00] Speaker 24: of it's not necessarily doesn't have to be a particle.
[2:05:02] Speaker 24: That's just a placeholder for our observation in space photons.
[2:05:08] Speaker 1: Photons act like they're a wave.
[2:05:10] Speaker 24: Yeah, No, everything to me acts like a wave. And
[2:05:13] Speaker 24: I'm actually a layman, you know whatever you call fan
[2:05:21] Speaker 24: of sciences who aren't really who don't know it, but
[2:05:24] Speaker 24: I follow physics a lot, and just everything seems like
[2:05:28] Speaker 24: they're waves. There doesn't seem like they're really particles. And
[2:05:31] Speaker 24: the waves create our reality, which are particles.
[2:05:34] Speaker 3: But cool.
[2:05:36] Speaker 1: Thanks God, So something to answer my question right, because
[2:05:45] Speaker 1: it sounds like you just feel it, right, Do you
[2:05:48] Speaker 1: have any way to test any of his beliefs or
[2:05:50] Speaker 1: is it just your feeling?
[2:05:52] Speaker 24: Well, absolutely not, because if God is holding our universe
[2:05:55] Speaker 24: in our hand, in his hand, then how the hell
[2:05:56] Speaker 24: could I communicate with him on a personal basis.
[2:05:59] Speaker 1: Well, what I'm trying to figure out is why you're
[2:06:01] Speaker 1: putting a god in this thing at all, Like you're
[2:06:04] Speaker 1: presupposing that there's a God without any evidence.
[2:06:09] Speaker 24: Well, to me, God is just a word that doesn't
[2:06:12] Speaker 24: make any sense anymore. It was a word that had
[2:06:15] Speaker 24: meaning back in the past. Now it just means nothing
[2:06:18] Speaker 24: but God. And to us that is people voices inside
[2:06:22] Speaker 24: their own heads and we go crazy and that happens.
[2:06:26] Speaker 1: Sure, well, listen, I believe that you do hear voices
[2:06:28] Speaker 1: in your head, But I don't think that you've come
[2:06:30] Speaker 1: with an actual argument to defend the position that you hold.
[2:06:34] Speaker 1: It sounds like it's just something you feel. And unfortunately,
[2:06:38] Speaker 1: just because you feel it doesn't mean it's true, because
[2:06:41] Speaker 1: I could just feel that it's not true.
[2:06:43] Speaker 24: Then I'll give you something. I feel like. The farthest
[2:06:46] Speaker 24: I've ever gotten is the Rosicrucian path with the Demiurge.
[2:06:49] Speaker 24: That's as far as I can ever get.
[2:06:51] Speaker 1: I even know.
[2:06:52] Speaker 2: That is.
[2:06:54] Speaker 24: The Rosicrucians, the religious sect back in the medieval time,
[2:07:00] Speaker 24: I believe some crap, and they got to the Demiurge
[2:07:02] Speaker 24: and that was the end point of their philosophy.
[2:07:05] Speaker 1: Or something, no idea what you're talking about?
[2:07:08] Speaker 24: Okay, well that's I've read about them and something about
[2:07:11] Speaker 24: the demiurge or something. And that's as far as I
[2:07:13] Speaker 24: can get to without thinking that there's no God, because
[2:07:17] Speaker 24: that's still a god.
[2:07:18] Speaker 1: So God is real because a bunch of people in
[2:07:21] Speaker 1: the medieval period talked about the Demiurge.
[2:07:24] Speaker 24: I'm a student of history too, and look back one
[2:07:29] Speaker 24: point two million years and there's still there was probably
[2:07:31] Speaker 24: religion back then. We were apes and we were simple,
[2:07:35] Speaker 24: but I mean Hamonids, but there's still was religion. And
[2:07:38] Speaker 24: I'm just there's no way that there wasn't something that
[2:07:41] Speaker 24: was that cared about us.
[2:07:44] Speaker 1: Why do you think it cares about us?
[2:07:48] Speaker 24: It's a personal god to me that I'm basically I
[2:07:51] Speaker 24: have a radio receiver too, and my subconscious is just
[2:07:54] Speaker 24: too dumb to properly decode it and give me the
[2:07:56] Speaker 24: correct phrases and words because it doesn't.
[2:07:59] Speaker 1: Speak any But why do you think it cares?
[2:08:02] Speaker 24: I don't know. I don't care if it cares. I
[2:08:04] Speaker 24: don't really care if a care.
[2:08:06] Speaker 1: You just said it did, all right, listen, I think
[2:08:08] Speaker 1: I don't think this conversation is going to go nowhere
[2:08:09] Speaker 1: because you don't. I don't think you've tested any of
[2:08:12] Speaker 1: these beliefs of yours. I think you just believe it
[2:08:15] Speaker 1: and you've never thought about why you believe it. Take
[2:08:18] Speaker 1: some time, hold on, John, take some time think about
[2:08:21] Speaker 1: why you believe these things, and then come back. Okay,
[2:08:26] Speaker 1: that was quick. Yeah, all right with that, We'll move
[2:08:31] Speaker 1: right on to the right, on to the next one.
[2:08:35] Speaker 1: Hundrum says, you're doing God's work. Go Jags. Listen, I'll
[2:08:39] Speaker 1: root for the Jaguars or the Steelers. Nightman says being
[2:08:42] Speaker 1: a Steelers fan should be considered a mortal sin in Dugism.
[2:08:45] Speaker 1: Who day, Listen, I'm with you if you're a Steelers fan.
[2:08:49] Speaker 1: Unfortunately you're It's not a venial sin, it's a mortal sin.
[2:08:53] Speaker 1: Jimmy says the Sermon on the Mount sponsored by psychedelics.
[2:08:56] Speaker 1: Actually I would believe that. I think Jesus was on
[2:08:58] Speaker 1: some stuff. Robin says, the underlying reason is God isn't real. Yeah. Yeah.
[2:09:04] Speaker 1: The underlying reason why reality is the way it is
[2:09:06] Speaker 1: is because God isn't real. That's the reason. Jonathan says,
[2:09:10] Speaker 1: justin the Friar, good Day, peepshill Doug. We hail Doug,
[2:09:14] Speaker 1: and good day to you Jonathan, thanks for stopping by,
[2:09:16] Speaker 1: and David Burke clearing up his prior chat. Thank you
[2:09:20] Speaker 1: for the nine ninety nine says you interpreted my super
[2:09:22] Speaker 1: chat well from the mess it was justin apologies. No
[2:09:26] Speaker 1: where is David. I do the best I can. You
[2:09:28] Speaker 1: know what I mean. I do the best I can.
[2:09:30] Speaker 1: I've chatted incoherent super chats before. Is just one of
[2:09:34] Speaker 1: the unfortunate consequences that happens when we superchat. Mcdubbin says,
[2:09:39] Speaker 1: King Salmon had over six five hundred concubines and the
[2:09:42] Speaker 1: Bible had deemed him the wisest man that ever lived.
[2:09:45] Speaker 1: Don't understand what Duke was going on about. So mcdubbn,
[2:09:47] Speaker 1: this is a fair point, and I've pointed this out before.
[2:09:49] Speaker 1: Where if Solomon is the wisest man on earth, how
[2:09:52] Speaker 1: come he didn't know that having so many wives, especially
[2:09:55] Speaker 1: foreign wives that practice foreign religions, would be bad? How
[2:09:58] Speaker 1: could he not know that it's crazy? Overly plight Rebels says,
[2:10:02] Speaker 1: how does one claim that morals come from God simultaneously
[2:10:05] Speaker 1: saying modern morals can't be applied to biblical texts. These
[2:10:08] Speaker 1: can't both be true. I'm with you. If you believe
[2:10:10] Speaker 1: that there are in fact some kind of objective moral claims,
[2:10:13] Speaker 1: you can't say that they change over time. That would
[2:10:16] Speaker 1: make them subjective. That would be absolutely completely silly. And
[2:10:21] Speaker 1: Brianna says, God does horrible thing. I'm sure he has
[2:10:23] Speaker 1: a reason. Yeah, I'm sure he has reasons. I don't
[2:10:26] Speaker 1: know what they are, but he's got him. Doctor Pizza,
[2:10:28] Speaker 1: my friend, thank you for sending out five deconstruction five
[2:10:32] Speaker 1: DZ debates memberships. I appreciate that, doctor Pizza. And last
[2:10:35] Speaker 1: one from our friend Elton again, Elton, so much for
[2:10:38] Speaker 1: the ten dour super Chet says, try framing it this way.
[2:10:41] Speaker 1: If your wife hooks up with another man, should should
[2:10:45] Speaker 1: she be taught a lesson by you being publicly essayed
[2:10:49] Speaker 1: against your will? Christian dudes can't handle it. This is
[2:10:52] Speaker 1: the question I should have asked. I should have turned
[2:10:55] Speaker 1: it around, said, if your wife commits adultery, should you
[2:10:59] Speaker 1: be punished for it? They would never say yes to that,
[2:11:03] Speaker 1: very very good idea. In fact, before this live stream
[2:11:06] Speaker 1: is open, we will have another opportunity, or before the
[2:11:09] Speaker 1: live stream is closed, we have an opportunity to hit
[2:11:11] Speaker 1: that one given. All right, we're gonna get yoho ash
[2:11:15] Speaker 1: and then find research in here, and then we'll bump
[2:11:17] Speaker 1: over to the YouTube queue. Welcome to your ash. Hello, hello, Wait,
[2:11:26] Speaker 1: are you live streaming on YouTube? Live streaming on TikTok
[2:11:30] Speaker 1: and YouTube? Okay, so are you aware of the parable
[2:11:36] Speaker 1: of the mustard seed?
[2:11:39] Speaker 17: Uh?
[2:11:39] Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if I would call it a parable.
[2:11:41] Speaker 1: It seems to be more of a analogy. Yeah.
[2:11:46] Speaker 30: Well, basically, if Jesus talking about how of the mustard
[2:11:51] Speaker 30: seeds people with faith of people believers, their faith is
[2:11:57] Speaker 30: not sewing on a solid found So in the first.
[2:12:03] Speaker 1: You're referring to the parable of the soil, the good
[2:12:09] Speaker 1: and the bad. That's no, there's not must sets in that.
[2:12:15] Speaker 30: And so that you haven't read that Bible.
[2:12:18] Speaker 1: That's your problem right there. That's actually not my problem.
[2:12:21] Speaker 1: My problem is that the Bible is not true. You'd
[2:12:23] Speaker 1: be wrong. So my problem is that the Bible is
[2:12:25] Speaker 1: not true. Can you demonstrate that it is true? Okay,
[2:12:29] Speaker 1: read the Bible with me? Well you know, well, are
[2:12:33] Speaker 1: you scared to read the Bible? Do not have the
[2:12:34] Speaker 1: Holy Spirit? Okay, let's go beyond the parable. So you
[2:12:40] Speaker 1: don't have the So the Bible. Do you want to
[2:12:44] Speaker 1: just stop talking? Do you want to read the Bible
[2:12:47] Speaker 1: with me?
[2:12:47] Speaker 11: Yes?
[2:12:48] Speaker 1: Or no?
[2:12:50] Speaker 2: Yep?
[2:12:50] Speaker 1: Cool?
[2:12:51] Speaker 30: The Bible is a historical book. The Bible is a
[2:12:54] Speaker 30: book of wisdom. The Bible is a book of prophecy.
[2:12:56] Speaker 30: So whatever you want.
[2:12:58] Speaker 1: Cool. But then again, yeah, your faithful and so on
[2:13:00] Speaker 1: on solid grind, you'd be wrong and you're ignorant. So uh.
[2:13:04] Speaker 1: The first question I have is do you think the
[2:13:05] Speaker 1: Bible is completely in errand?
[2:13:08] Speaker 2: Wait?
[2:13:09] Speaker 3: Wait?
[2:13:10] Speaker 1: The Bible is what incoherent? In errand?
[2:13:14] Speaker 2: In errand?
[2:13:15] Speaker 1: Yeah? What does that mean? Without error?
[2:13:21] Speaker 5: So?
[2:13:23] Speaker 1: What what? What types of error do you see in
[2:13:25] Speaker 1: the Bible? I asked you your belief. Do you believe
[2:13:28] Speaker 1: that the Bible is without error? I'm not too sure
[2:13:33] Speaker 1: where you're getting at. I'm not getting at anything. I'm
[2:13:36] Speaker 1: trying to figure out what you believe about the Bible.
[2:13:39] Speaker 1: All I need is the answer. Do you, as a
[2:13:42] Speaker 1: human being who has opinions, believe that the Bible is
[2:13:45] Speaker 1: without error? So what was your foundation of the faith?
[2:13:50] Speaker 1: You can answer the question, Well, you're going to answer
[2:13:53] Speaker 1: the question or I'll kick you. Do you believe that
[2:13:56] Speaker 1: the Bible is an errant is or no, I'm not
[2:14:03] Speaker 1: too sure what you mean. Okay, okay, you're a waste
[2:14:07] Speaker 1: of time and a waste of space. I would presume
[2:14:10] Speaker 1: we'll move on to somebody who has something to actually say,
[2:14:14] Speaker 1: and you obviously don't. So it's what it is. I
[2:14:18] Speaker 1: said we would get fine research next, and then we'll
[2:14:20] Speaker 1: get love Thompson, and then after love it looks like
[2:14:25] Speaker 1: King's zipper. How are you doing fine?
[2:14:29] Speaker 2: I'm doing good.
[2:14:29] Speaker 1: Are you doing good? Thanks for acting fine? Are you
[2:14:31] Speaker 1: at least eighteen? And are you believer?
[2:14:34] Speaker 21: Yeah, I'm over eighteen, and I believe in Christian God.
[2:14:39] Speaker 1: Cool would be the most compelling evidence or argument for
[2:14:41] Speaker 1: the Christian God being real?
[2:14:43] Speaker 31: Well, if you have ever heard that, there's like this
[2:14:48] Speaker 31: this artist called Bob Lulan and he was doing interview
[2:14:53] Speaker 31: when he said that he made a bargain with master
[2:14:59] Speaker 31: Chief of this word and that word we can't see.
[2:15:02] Speaker 31: So I think he explained that he did.
[2:15:05] Speaker 1: I have no idea who he is or what he said.
[2:15:07] Speaker 1: So that's that's not a good argument. So well, so
[2:15:11] Speaker 1: we'll try this again. Do you have evidence or an
[2:15:13] Speaker 1: argument that the Christian God is real?
[2:15:16] Speaker 21: If you see God, he will show yourself.
[2:15:19] Speaker 16: I think that.
[2:15:20] Speaker 1: Well, I haven't seen God, so obviously I don't believe
[2:15:22] Speaker 1: he's real.
[2:15:23] Speaker 21: If you seek God and pray for I did.
[2:15:26] Speaker 1: I was a Christian for twenty years, and the Bible
[2:15:28] Speaker 1: demonstrated that God couldn't exist. So we'll try again. Do
[2:15:32] Speaker 1: you have evidence or an argument that God is real?
[2:15:37] Speaker 21: Well, I've seen some miracles when I have saeken God.
[2:15:42] Speaker 1: So you don't have any evidence arguments?
[2:15:45] Speaker 21: Then, well, I've seen miracles.
[2:15:48] Speaker 1: Okay, I don't believe him. I've not seen the miracles.
[2:15:52] Speaker 1: Why do I care that you claim these miracles? I'm
[2:15:55] Speaker 1: asking you think that you and I can verify together.
[2:15:59] Speaker 21: I think I think God can show you a miracles if
[2:16:02] Speaker 21: you seek him again.
[2:16:04] Speaker 1: We'll try this again. I was a Christian for twenty years,
[2:16:08] Speaker 1: so try again. Do you have an actual evidence or
[2:16:12] Speaker 1: do you just have claims?
[2:16:15] Speaker 2: Well, I say what I say.
[2:16:17] Speaker 1: Okay, so you don't.
[2:16:18] Speaker 32: I don't know.
[2:16:19] Speaker 16: I don't know why you haven't seen that, but like miracles.
[2:16:22] Speaker 1: But okay, I guess what got added to my soundboard?
[2:16:26] Speaker 1: Friends found the sound effect. I hope everyone can hear it.
[2:16:35] Speaker 1: All right, we'll get moving right on to love Thompson.
[2:16:41] Speaker 4: I do love well, Love, Yes, can you hear me?
[2:16:49] Speaker 1: I can hear you. It's just a little bit delayed. Love.
[2:16:51] Speaker 1: Are you at least eighteen? And are you a believer?
[2:16:55] Speaker 4: Can you hear me?
[2:16:57] Speaker 1: I can hear you. Okay, sorry, I just think it's delayed.
[2:17:03] Speaker 1: Let me let me do a sound check. I'm going
[2:17:05] Speaker 1: to count the four. When I say four, I want
[2:17:07] Speaker 1: you to say five, one, two, three, four, Love, I
[2:17:22] Speaker 1: don't think your connection is strong enough to do this conversation.
[2:17:27] Speaker 1: I don't think you're hearing everything I'm saying.
[2:17:31] Speaker 5: I can hear you.
[2:17:32] Speaker 4: I'd say five. I don't think you.
[2:17:34] Speaker 1: Can hear I didn't hear you at all. No, I
[2:17:36] Speaker 1: didn't hear you say five at all.
[2:17:41] Speaker 4: But you can hear me now.
[2:17:42] Speaker 1: I can hear you right now. Yeah. Are you on
[2:17:44] Speaker 1: a cell phone?
[2:17:45] Speaker 4: Okay? Cool?
[2:17:46] Speaker 5: He am?
[2:17:47] Speaker 2: Is that?
[2:17:47] Speaker 4: Okay?
[2:17:48] Speaker 1: It's okay. Just try not to move move around too much.
[2:17:50] Speaker 1: We'll see if we can keep the conversation moving. Okay. So, Love,
[2:17:54] Speaker 1: are you a believer?
[2:17:57] Speaker 5: Yes?
[2:17:57] Speaker 1: Sure? And what God do you believe in?
[2:18:03] Speaker 4: The God, the God of the Earth, the universe, everything,
[2:18:06] Speaker 4: the Creator, God right, God of the Bible. If that's
[2:18:11] Speaker 4: how you would like me to phrase it.
[2:18:14] Speaker 1: Right, okay, And what would be a compelling evidence or
[2:18:17] Speaker 1: argument for this God being real.
[2:18:22] Speaker 4: For me personally or something that you can identify with.
[2:18:27] Speaker 4: I just want to make sure I understand your question.
[2:18:29] Speaker 1: It would be something that both of us can identify with,
[2:18:31] Speaker 1: because I have no access to your personal experience.
[2:18:35] Speaker 4: Okay. I believe that everything that exists has to begin
[2:18:40] Speaker 4: with the cause you can't get nothing from nothing, and
[2:18:45] Speaker 4: I haven't been able to identify outside of my own
[2:18:49] Speaker 4: personal experiences with God personally that you can't identify with
[2:18:56] Speaker 4: with any other method of how people try to explain
[2:18:59] Speaker 4: how everything came into existence as well as you know
[2:19:04] Speaker 4: the Bible, which I heard you say you don't believe
[2:19:07] Speaker 4: is true. But everything that the Bible explains about the
[2:19:10] Speaker 4: beginnings of time I actually believe is true.
[2:19:16] Speaker 1: Sure, in my opinion it's so. First of all, I
[2:19:19] Speaker 1: don't believe that there was a creation or that there
[2:19:21] Speaker 1: ever was nothing. I think that there always was some
[2:19:24] Speaker 1: sort of matter of space and time, and I don't
[2:19:26] Speaker 1: see any evidence that would point me against that conclusion.
[2:19:29] Speaker 1: Do you have any.
[2:19:33] Speaker 4: My evidence would be, can you tell me what existed
[2:19:36] Speaker 4: before this particular time, space and matter that we are
[2:19:40] Speaker 4: part of here now.
[2:19:42] Speaker 1: Well, Cosmologists have a couple different answers. Some of them
[2:19:44] Speaker 1: point to a quantum field. Some of them say that
[2:19:47] Speaker 1: there was just more time, space, and matter, but in
[2:19:49] Speaker 1: a different shape and size. Some would point to like
[2:19:53] Speaker 1: in infinite world's universe or like the multiverse. There's a
[2:19:58] Speaker 1: lot of theories as to what could have been the
[2:20:00] Speaker 1: situation prior to the Big Bang, but one thing seems
[2:20:03] Speaker 1: to be sure. If matter and energy can't be created
[2:20:06] Speaker 1: or destroyed, and we actually do have matter and energy,
[2:20:10] Speaker 1: I have no reason to believe that it didn't exist
[2:20:12] Speaker 1: in the past.
[2:20:15] Speaker 4: I respect that point of view. I think that my
[2:20:18] Speaker 4: reason for believing that it didn't exist in the past
[2:20:22] Speaker 4: would be that the same way there's no solid way
[2:20:26] Speaker 4: for you personally to identify with my personal experiences with God,
[2:20:30] Speaker 4: there's no way for me to see a quantum field
[2:20:34] Speaker 4: or for it to be like proven to me, if
[2:20:37] Speaker 4: that makes sense, and so I would have to go
[2:20:40] Speaker 4: with what I know to be true already. So outside
[2:20:44] Speaker 4: of just creation alone, there are so many other things
[2:20:47] Speaker 4: that God points to me personally that I see, such
[2:20:52] Speaker 4: as how we are as human beings, how you know
[2:20:55] Speaker 4: we can't seem to ever agree on one matter. You know,
[2:20:58] Speaker 4: we don't. We're not kind to each other, not just that,
[2:21:03] Speaker 4: just different ways of the world itself. That there is
[2:21:08] Speaker 4: life and there is death. We've all experienced that. And
[2:21:12] Speaker 4: I don't see any other aws or proof that those
[2:21:20] Speaker 4: particular matters come out of something else.
[2:21:24] Speaker 1: Well, we do have evidence. We know for a fact
[2:21:27] Speaker 1: how quantum fields produce matter. That's not a question. I
[2:21:32] Speaker 1: mean they come to exist the quantum fields themselves. Well,
[2:21:35] Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. They always existed, right, So the
[2:21:38] Speaker 1: same way you think your God always exists, I'm just
[2:21:41] Speaker 1: going to say that the universe always existed. And the
[2:21:45] Speaker 1: reality is we only have proof for one of those
[2:21:48] Speaker 1: two claims. We have proof for the universe always existing.
[2:21:50] Speaker 1: We don't have any proof for God existing.
[2:21:57] Speaker 4: What is your proof for the universe always existing other
[2:21:59] Speaker 4: than what pomologists say, Because again you said that you
[2:22:02] Speaker 4: wanted something that you could identify with or prove as well.
[2:22:07] Speaker 1: Well, I think the proof is that, first that the
[2:22:08] Speaker 1: universe exists. So we can start at a firm conclusion
[2:22:12] Speaker 1: that I think we can all agree on. Conclusion number
[2:22:14] Speaker 1: one is that the universe does in fact exist, now,
[2:22:19] Speaker 1: the conclusion on whether or not God exists is the
[2:22:21] Speaker 1: question at hand. We don't have it a conclusion on
[2:22:24] Speaker 1: whether or not God exists. I'm saying it's more plausible
[2:22:27] Speaker 1: that the thing that already exists that we know exists
[2:22:31] Speaker 1: existed forever, rather than saying that it didn't exist forever,
[2:22:35] Speaker 1: and then also some like some magician in the sky
[2:22:40] Speaker 1: made it come into existence. I don't see any evidence
[2:22:42] Speaker 1: for either of those two claims.
[2:22:48] Speaker 4: I understand like what you're trying to put forth here.
[2:22:53] Speaker 4: For me, it's it's like, that's just like someone being born.
[2:22:57] Speaker 4: Now they want me to something that's already been running, right,
[2:23:03] Speaker 4: And they could ask you how did this thing come
[2:23:07] Speaker 4: to be? And you can explain that to them, But
[2:23:09] Speaker 4: because it existed before they existed here, they could tell you, well,
[2:23:16] Speaker 4: I don't believe what you say about how it came
[2:23:18] Speaker 4: to be. I believe that it was always here, and
[2:23:21] Speaker 4: it's been here according to my grandfather for the last
[2:23:24] Speaker 4: one hundred years. And he says that his grandfather said
[2:23:26] Speaker 4: that it was here one hundred years before that. So
[2:23:29] Speaker 4: it's like, basically all of this stuff is still going
[2:23:32] Speaker 4: to eventually come down to word of mouth. So then
[2:23:37] Speaker 4: the other form of fruit would then from my side
[2:23:40] Speaker 4: at least of the argument be the Holy Spirit. Do
[2:23:45] Speaker 4: you believe that if you allow the Holy Spirit to
[2:23:50] Speaker 4: guide you or to be a part of your life,
[2:23:52] Speaker 4: the Holy Spirit will be a part of your life.
[2:23:55] Speaker 4: I don't think that I could think that everyone. I
[2:24:00] Speaker 4: can only prove that pertaining to my personal experience and
[2:24:04] Speaker 4: the other things that I've seen other people, the other
[2:24:08] Speaker 4: ways of change that I've seen other people experience as well,
[2:24:11] Speaker 4: that can add some truth to there being a Holy Spirit.
[2:24:15] Speaker 1: The things there are disagree with that.
[2:24:19] Speaker 4: I know that there are people who disagree with that claim.
[2:24:21] Speaker 4: There are people who disagree with.
[2:24:24] Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on, We're gonna get somewhere. Okay. Do
[2:24:26] Speaker 1: you think that there are people who tried the same
[2:24:27] Speaker 1: thing you tried and didn't get the same result.
[2:24:33] Speaker 4: Actually, if I'm being honest, I'm one of the people
[2:24:36] Speaker 4: who tried what I tried at the beginning of my
[2:24:38] Speaker 4: life and didn't get the result that I thought that
[2:24:41] Speaker 4: I should get, and I walked away from God. I'm
[2:24:44] Speaker 4: willing to be honest about my life, and I know
[2:24:48] Speaker 4: from the experiences that I had outside of having a
[2:24:52] Speaker 4: relationship with God, it totally had no no thought of
[2:24:57] Speaker 4: ever returning to God. I went through times in my
[2:25:00] Speaker 4: life where I didn't believe that God was real and
[2:25:03] Speaker 4: I had a thousand questions, and ultimately, one day God
[2:25:07] Speaker 4: showed up in my life in a way that I
[2:25:10] Speaker 4: can explain to you, but I can't promise you you
[2:25:12] Speaker 4: would believe it. You see what I'm saying, and that's
[2:25:14] Speaker 4: okay with me. You get where I'm coming from. But
[2:25:17] Speaker 4: I know for a fact with him.
[2:25:19] Speaker 1: So love just just hold on a second. I know,
[2:25:22] Speaker 1: like you probably have a really compelling personal story, and
[2:25:25] Speaker 1: you it was very powerful to tell you my story.
[2:25:28] Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is that a lot of people
[2:25:30] Speaker 1: probably exactly what you did with different results, which means
[2:25:34] Speaker 1: it's not.
[2:25:35] Speaker 4: Really what was the reason exactly that that makes it?
[2:25:39] Speaker 4: That makes God not real because they got a specific result.
[2:25:42] Speaker 4: What is that specific result?
[2:25:44] Speaker 1: Well, there are There are two things. One is that
[2:25:46] Speaker 1: you can ask God, Slash, the Holy Spirit to present
[2:25:51] Speaker 1: themselves to you and then it just doesn't happen. So
[2:25:54] Speaker 1: that's the first problem. Now the secondary problem is that
[2:25:59] Speaker 1: you're going to come in and say, well, obviously they
[2:26:01] Speaker 1: weren't sincere or they didn't mean it or some other
[2:26:04] Speaker 1: nonsense like that. And to you, I would say, how
[2:26:07] Speaker 1: in the world could you possibly know that you can't
[2:26:09] Speaker 1: read minds?
[2:26:10] Speaker 4: Well, excuse me before you speak for me. I am
[2:26:12] Speaker 4: not your typical whatever the world has in their view
[2:26:16] Speaker 4: As a Christian, I don't do that. I don't speak
[2:26:19] Speaker 4: to people, so please don't speak for me. I can't
[2:26:22] Speaker 4: tell you that you were not Sincere. I can tell
[2:26:24] Speaker 4: you that it may it may have happened in a
[2:26:26] Speaker 4: way that you didn't, which is not what you were
[2:26:29] Speaker 4: looking for. I can't tell you you weren't Sincere when
[2:26:32] Speaker 4: you invited God into your art.
[2:26:34] Speaker 1: Okay, that's not my place. Does God know what it
[2:26:36] Speaker 1: would take to convince every person?
[2:26:46] Speaker 13: I would have to.
[2:26:46] Speaker 4: Say yes, But I would also have to say that
[2:26:52] Speaker 4: I've personally believed that God has presented so many different
[2:26:58] Speaker 4: options and ways for each person to identify with and
[2:27:02] Speaker 4: then it becomes a personal choice, as if that's something
[2:27:05] Speaker 4: that you are willing to accept.
[2:27:09] Speaker 1: Well, let's try to keep this linear. So the question was,
[2:27:12] Speaker 1: but hold on, love, you're gonna hid yourself. The question
[2:27:15] Speaker 1: was does God know what it takes to save every individual?
[2:27:18] Speaker 1: And I presume the answer to the question is yes,
[2:27:20] Speaker 1: he does know that, right, correct? Okay? Does God want
[2:27:26] Speaker 1: these people to be saved?
[2:27:28] Speaker 4: Yes?
[2:27:29] Speaker 1: Okay, So if God knows what it would take to
[2:27:31] Speaker 1: save everyone, and he wants everyone to be saved, why
[2:27:35] Speaker 1: doesn't he do it?
[2:27:39] Speaker 4: Again, my question to that question would be, how do
[2:27:43] Speaker 4: you know that he doesn't do it?
[2:27:45] Speaker 1: Because people die, not be.
[2:27:48] Speaker 4: People die gang banging. We tell them their whole life.
[2:27:52] Speaker 4: They see, they see people go out and choose that
[2:27:55] Speaker 4: life and get shot and killed in the streets. They
[2:27:58] Speaker 4: their families are hurt by it. There are so many
[2:28:01] Speaker 4: people go to jail from it and never get out.
[2:28:04] Speaker 4: All types of different proof is there.
[2:28:05] Speaker 1: That's not my question that the street life.
[2:28:08] Speaker 4: Excuse me to.
[2:28:09] Speaker 1: Try to focus love.
[2:28:11] Speaker 4: You're talking, don't don't do that if you don't want to,
[2:28:13] Speaker 4: if you don't want to allow me to give you
[2:28:15] Speaker 4: an answer to your question.
[2:28:16] Speaker 1: Love, it's not an answer to my question. That's the
[2:28:18] Speaker 1: problem me, sir, if you would not like for me too. Okay,
[2:28:21] Speaker 1: and now you're muted love. So this is what happens.
[2:28:24] Speaker 1: This is not your platform to preach. No one cares
[2:28:26] Speaker 1: about your preaching. We're trying to have a linear discussion.
[2:28:30] Speaker 1: I asked you a question. You went on rambling about
[2:28:32] Speaker 1: something that wasn't nothing to do with my question. All
[2:28:35] Speaker 1: I'm doing is redirecting you back to the main question
[2:28:39] Speaker 1: because I want an answer to my question. I don't
[2:28:41] Speaker 1: want to hear you preach. Okay, So and she left. Okay, Well,
[2:28:45] Speaker 1: I guess she didn't want to have a conversation. They
[2:28:47] Speaker 1: always want to preach. I'll never get over that. I'll
[2:28:49] Speaker 1: never get over people just wanting to preach. They literally
[2:28:52] Speaker 1: think that they can just preach and people are going
[2:28:55] Speaker 1: to believe what they believe. It's the craziest thing in
[2:28:57] Speaker 1: the world. Hiro, fantastic, he says, former full time minister here.
[2:29:01] Speaker 1: Big w for being former left conservative Christianity over twenty
[2:29:05] Speaker 1: years ago. But appreciate what you're doing here. Keep on cooking.
[2:29:08] Speaker 1: But thanks Hiro, I appreciate that. And yeah, you know,
[2:29:11] Speaker 1: when I left conservative Christianity, I was kind of on
[2:29:13] Speaker 1: the liberal side for a while before I ended up
[2:29:15] Speaker 1: on atheism. So best luck on your journey, Reverend Danger.
[2:29:19] Speaker 1: You were in my guest box earlier, Reverend Danger says,
[2:29:21] Speaker 1: Mike Sucks. Apparently just wanted to ask who went around
[2:29:24] Speaker 1: collecting Paul's letters. Heard that came from Marcion according to Livesey. Okay,
[2:29:28] Speaker 1: so first of all, let's get a couple of things clear.
[2:29:31] Speaker 1: Doctor Livesey has a very niche opinion. It's not well
[2:29:34] Speaker 1: accepted within scholarship. Is she brilliant yes? Is she smart? Yeah?
[2:29:38] Speaker 1: Of course. Did you do research? Yeah, of course. I've
[2:29:40] Speaker 1: listened to her lectures. I don't agree with her. That
[2:29:43] Speaker 1: being said, if you just look at the church history,
[2:29:46] Speaker 1: they were obviously collected by the people in the church,
[2:29:49] Speaker 1: and we have pretty good evidences that those churches existed.
[2:29:52] Speaker 1: I don't think this is a difficult question to answer,
[2:29:54] Speaker 1: but I love doctor Livesey. She's fantastic. Tom. Thank you
[2:29:58] Speaker 1: so much for the nine ninety nine super chats. The teacher, lawyer,
[2:30:00] Speaker 1: and priest are together on the Titanic as it's sinking.
[2:30:04] Speaker 1: The teacher says, save the kids. The lawyer says, nah,
[2:30:07] Speaker 1: fuck the kids. The priest says, you think we have time.
[2:30:12] Speaker 1: I've heard that joke before, but it never gets old.
[2:30:15] Speaker 1: There's never been an occasion where that joke didn't hit
[2:30:19] Speaker 1: every time. Dexter says, we've got a real basket case
[2:30:23] Speaker 1: on our hands. Yes, that was that was a That
[2:30:26] Speaker 1: was a that was something Hiro come in and again
[2:30:31] Speaker 1: thank you for the six sixty six hail Nero says,
[2:30:35] Speaker 1: Rossi Crucians are mystical, are a mystical organization. The demiurge
[2:30:41] Speaker 1: originates in Platonism, pops up in narcissism as ignorant God
[2:30:45] Speaker 1: who thinks he created everything but didn't. Yeah, you're right,
[2:30:48] Speaker 1: that is the case. The demiurge originates in Greek philosophy.
[2:30:51] Speaker 1: It gets picked up again by Marcianism and his people
[2:30:55] Speaker 1: and the Gnostics and they do a whole thing with it. John,
[2:30:59] Speaker 1: thank you for the six sixty seven super Thank you,
[2:31:02] Speaker 1: and Rust thank you for the super Chest says what's
[2:31:05] Speaker 1: your best evidence my gap? Well, that's just fuck fantastic joke.
[2:31:12] Speaker 1: And just a couple more. My friend Nigel says, justin
[2:31:14] Speaker 1: you are the best atheism debate content creator on YouTube.
[2:31:17] Speaker 1: Now love what you do, Doug rules, Well, thank you
[2:31:20] Speaker 1: for the sentiment, Nigel. I really appreciate that. My goal.
[2:31:22] Speaker 1: I don't know if my goal is ever to be
[2:31:23] Speaker 1: the best, but I want to be the best that
[2:31:25] Speaker 1: I can be, So thank you for being here. And
[2:31:27] Speaker 1: Carrie says, would you please consider other Q and A
[2:31:30] Speaker 1: streams for atheists to ask questions. I will carry I
[2:31:33] Speaker 1: promise soon, I'll maybe I'll do one next week. I'll
[2:31:36] Speaker 1: do a Q and a stream just for questions rather
[2:31:39] Speaker 1: than doing debates. Thank you for being here and asking though,
[2:31:42] Speaker 1: and Tech says, I will deconstruct your deconstruction zone. Tell
[2:31:45] Speaker 1: me the rules of the debate. Also, isn't the burden
[2:31:48] Speaker 1: of proof on you since your is yoh you apostrophe ari,
[2:31:54] Speaker 1: since you're making the claim? Well, no, only a little bit,
[2:31:58] Speaker 1: because your God, which I'm sure is probably the Christian
[2:32:01] Speaker 1: God I can disprove pretty easily, or the Muslim God whatever.
[2:32:05] Speaker 1: So yeah, the burden proof is only partially. I mean,
[2:32:06] Speaker 1: the burden proofs also on you because the prompt says,
[2:32:10] Speaker 1: prove me wrong, which means the prompt ends with the
[2:32:15] Speaker 1: burden already on you. And mel and my see I
[2:32:19] Speaker 1: see a retracted superchat. I don't know what happened there,
[2:32:23] Speaker 1: but thanks and Angry a malachite infant, big w thank
[2:32:28] Speaker 1: you for the twenty dollars. Superchat says, do you believe
[2:32:31] Speaker 1: in UFO's astro projection, mental telepathy, esp clairvoyant's spirit photography,
[2:32:36] Speaker 1: telekinetic movement, full trance mediums, The Lackness, Monster and the
[2:32:40] Speaker 1: story of Atlantis Ghostbuster. Yeah, that's a good quote. I
[2:32:45] Speaker 1: don't believe in any of those things because there's no
[2:32:48] Speaker 1: evidence for those things. But I do agree that the
[2:32:51] Speaker 1: belief in God is kind of a kin to all
[2:32:55] Speaker 1: those all those things. Hockey says, justin do you think
[2:32:58] Speaker 1: Jeremiah and Baruk Deuteronomy kings? I'm reading who wrote the Bible?
[2:33:02] Speaker 1: By Richard Freeman. Yeah, Richard Elliott Freeman's awesome and thought
[2:33:06] Speaker 1: what that was interesting? So I don't think Jeremiah wrote them,
[2:33:10] Speaker 1: but I do think there were was There was a
[2:33:12] Speaker 1: collection of scribes and prophets at the time period that
[2:33:17] Speaker 1: what's the word I'm looking for. Let's just say they
[2:33:19] Speaker 1: were working in unison together. That's what I would say.
[2:33:23] Speaker 1: Probably with the deuteronomist I think that's where we get
[2:33:26] Speaker 1: a lot of the deuteronomistic history. Generally. I do agree
[2:33:29] Speaker 1: with Richard Elliot Freeman on source criticism. You might also
[2:33:32] Speaker 1: want to check to see what Joel Baden says. But
[2:33:35] Speaker 1: we got kings Ripper in the guest box. How you doing, Kings?
[2:33:40] Speaker 2: Could you hear me? Yeah?
[2:33:41] Speaker 1: I can hear you, all right.
[2:33:44] Speaker 2: I just want to say something before we start. I
[2:33:46] Speaker 2: do have a question.
[2:33:49] Speaker 1: Do you do you have a real voice or just
[2:33:51] Speaker 1: a voice changer?
[2:33:52] Speaker 2: This is a voice.
[2:33:54] Speaker 1: And all these Are you a theist?
[2:33:58] Speaker 2: I am not Christian and I'm going to leave.
[2:34:00] Speaker 1: Yes, okay, so you're a Muslim.
[2:34:04] Speaker 2: I do have a question before we start.
[2:34:06] Speaker 1: I mean, are you going to have a conversation with me?
[2:34:08] Speaker 1: Or did you just want to ask him question and leave?
[2:34:11] Speaker 2: Just asks a questions? That's okay?
[2:34:13] Speaker 1: I mean, are you asking a question and leaving? Or
[2:34:15] Speaker 1: are you asking a question and then arguing with me
[2:34:17] Speaker 1: about it?
[2:34:19] Speaker 2: It's not necessarily on the debates, But you know, Cyber deconstruct.
[2:34:23] Speaker 1: Do you know Cyber what happened to I have no idea,
[2:34:29] Speaker 1: no ideas?
[2:34:30] Speaker 2: Are so many days I.
[2:34:33] Speaker 1: Well, I mean, believe it or not, I believe it
[2:34:35] Speaker 1: or not. He has a life too. I think he's
[2:34:37] Speaker 1: in school and working, or perhaps he's going he's going
[2:34:40] Speaker 1: to be going back to school soon. So I don't
[2:34:42] Speaker 1: know what's actually happening with Cyber. I couldn't tell you him.
[2:34:47] Speaker 2: Uh okay, I understand.
[2:34:50] Speaker 1: Well cheers man. Yeah, those who are friends of the
[2:34:56] Speaker 1: channel probably already know Cyber, but I don't. I don't
[2:34:59] Speaker 1: know why he's not been streaming lately, So what a
[2:35:03] Speaker 1: wait and see on that? All right, let me go
[2:35:05] Speaker 1: ahead and get our next guest into the box. Looks
[2:35:09] Speaker 1: like it's going to be Zobin. Zober is open? Are
[2:35:19] Speaker 1: you doing? Is it? Or is obin or how to
[2:35:21] Speaker 1: our production name?
[2:35:22] Speaker 32: It's yeah, yeah, that's okay, yeah, how are you? I
[2:35:27] Speaker 32: really enjoy your content? Just just you know, first I
[2:35:30] Speaker 32: have to say this and h and also I wanted
[2:35:34] Speaker 32: to mention that, like I'm I have to tell you
[2:35:38] Speaker 32: my background. I'm kind of I am kind of a Muslim,
[2:35:42] Speaker 32: and I'm sort of like lean towards analytic idealism in
[2:35:46] Speaker 32: a way. And uh so, I you know, I believe
[2:35:54] Speaker 32: that they're like I mean, your statement could be actually
[2:35:57] Speaker 32: true in a way as well as like you know,
[2:36:01] Speaker 32: the how do you say this in a better way?
[2:36:04] Speaker 32: But like what do you mean by imaginaty.
[2:36:07] Speaker 1: Means you can imagine your God, but you can't prove your.
[2:36:10] Speaker 32: God to actually but like there is like what what Okay,
[2:36:14] Speaker 32: let's let's define imagination. What do you mean it's a relationship?
[2:36:18] Speaker 32: Like imagination is it in a relationship with your consciousness
[2:36:22] Speaker 32: or a conscious experience?
[2:36:23] Speaker 1: What is that imagination is something that's happening inside of
[2:36:28] Speaker 1: your brain. When you could make an image of something
[2:36:31] Speaker 1: in your brain is but the image in real life
[2:36:33] Speaker 1: doesn't appear to exist. No, But where is that in
[2:36:36] Speaker 1: your brain? I know?
[2:36:39] Speaker 32: Like, Okay, so you say, like you you're a physicalist.
[2:36:41] Speaker 1: Right, as far as I can tell, I'm a physicalist.
[2:36:45] Speaker 1: But I don't believe that your brain is non physical.
[2:36:51] Speaker 32: No, but like what do you what do you think
[2:36:54] Speaker 32: reality is?
[2:36:55] Speaker 1: Is?
[2:36:55] Speaker 3: It?
[2:36:56] Speaker 32: Is it made up?
[2:36:57] Speaker 1: Matter?
[2:36:57] Speaker 2: Is? Like?
[2:36:58] Speaker 32: Are you like a restrict materials?
[2:37:00] Speaker 1: I mean, as far as I can tell, materialism makes
[2:37:03] Speaker 1: the most sense if you think that there's something other
[2:37:06] Speaker 1: than material, I'm certainly open to it. Keep in mind
[2:37:08] Speaker 1: that I would I would count like quantum fields and
[2:37:12] Speaker 1: quantum particles to also be material.
[2:37:14] Speaker 32: I mean, I mean like you could. I mean there
[2:37:17] Speaker 32: is no like I mean, if you go like deep
[2:37:20] Speaker 32: done down that rabbit hole, there's no real proof or
[2:37:23] Speaker 32: evidence that reality is made of matter.
[2:37:26] Speaker 3: You could it could be made a.
[2:37:28] Speaker 1: Proof for evidence that we're not brains events.
[2:37:30] Speaker 32: But yeah, but yeah, exactly so there is no like it.
[2:37:34] Speaker 32: It's you can get down to solism and all sort
[2:37:37] Speaker 32: of things.
[2:37:38] Speaker 1: But right, that's the problem. Is solveism comes both ways,
[2:37:41] Speaker 1: Like it feed my worldview, but at the same time
[2:37:44] Speaker 1: it defeats yours.
[2:37:47] Speaker 32: Can you tell me, like what sort of where exactly
[2:37:51] Speaker 32: this imagination happens in your brain? Can you tell me
[2:37:54] Speaker 32: this sort of like this is the sets of physical
[2:37:57] Speaker 32: attributes of the brain that actually creates imagine it happens in.
[2:38:01] Speaker 1: The brain, which is what neuurality teaches. If you need
[2:38:04] Speaker 1: more information than that, you came to the wrong place.
[2:38:06] Speaker 1: You should ask a neurologist.
[2:38:07] Speaker 2: Not me.
[2:38:09] Speaker 32: Are you familiar with Donald Hoffman the interface theory of perception?
[2:38:16] Speaker 1: No, but let me guess you've cherry picked some neurologists
[2:38:19] Speaker 1: that say something that you like without actually checking what
[2:38:21] Speaker 1: the field teaches.
[2:38:22] Speaker 32: No, no, I'm I'm quite well versed on this. But like,
[2:38:28] Speaker 32: there are a lot of different ways to proach reality
[2:38:30] Speaker 32: and there or a lot of like the idealism. You
[2:38:33] Speaker 32: can you can go down the Hegelian roots, you can
[2:38:37] Speaker 32: go down all sort of different routs, Right, I just
[2:38:40] Speaker 32: wanted to ask you, like I think maybe like here's
[2:38:43] Speaker 32: the thing. I'm kind of an agnostic this so excuse me.
[2:38:49] Speaker 1: Sorry, I have to go somewhere. Okay, have a good one. Buddy,
[2:38:53] Speaker 1: thanks for coming.
[2:38:54] Speaker 32: Up, you know, but but it just just just a second,
[2:38:57] Speaker 32: just a second, I continue. What I mean by that
[2:38:59] Speaker 32: is like no, I'm I'm back. So uh yeah, okay, sorry,
[2:39:06] Speaker 32: I lost my three of thoughts. But so you can
[2:39:09] Speaker 32: go down different rabbit holes and I kind of enjoy it.
[2:39:12] Speaker 32: I am kind of im see I'm a Muslim, but
[2:39:15] Speaker 32: this is some it's kind of some like a Pascal
[2:39:18] Speaker 32: wager that I'm actually believe in this divine how to say,
[2:39:25] Speaker 32: divine source. I don't call it God. I call it
[2:39:28] Speaker 32: divine source because I believe that there is such a
[2:39:30] Speaker 32: thing as a conservation of consciousness and there is a
[2:39:34] Speaker 32: super like there is some this metal consciousness or like
[2:39:38] Speaker 32: you can't say it's like mind of God or whatever
[2:39:41] Speaker 32: that is. I'm veiling or this is kind of my
[2:39:44] Speaker 32: personal belief, but I don't have any evidence for it
[2:39:47] Speaker 32: as far as if you you know in as like
[2:39:51] Speaker 32: as far as you if you assume the scientific worldview, right, so,
[2:39:55] Speaker 32: but if you if you assume that you know reason
[2:40:00] Speaker 32: enough to approach reality, which I believe reason is not
[2:40:04] Speaker 32: enough to approach reality, you like you cannot like there
[2:40:09] Speaker 32: are thousand different ways to just discuss these things, you know,
[2:40:14] Speaker 32: and I That's why I'm asking you. I would like
[2:40:17] Speaker 32: to know your answer about this. I you know my answers.
[2:40:20] Speaker 32: I can go down, you know I can't.
[2:40:24] Speaker 1: I heard the question yet.
[2:40:25] Speaker 32: My question is what? What physical? What do you think?
[2:40:29] Speaker 14: Where?
[2:40:30] Speaker 32: Do you think imagination happens.
[2:40:32] Speaker 1: In the brain? I already told you, yeah, but.
[2:40:35] Speaker 32: What what is this?
[2:40:37] Speaker 2: You know?
[2:40:37] Speaker 32: Do you know about the Mary's Room? Is imagination?
[2:40:42] Speaker 1: Sort of knowledge makes this a little bit easier. Hold
[2:40:45] Speaker 1: on me all right, one second? That my whiteboard out?
[2:40:51] Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.
[2:40:56] Speaker 32: Do you think a set of neurons or like this
[2:40:59] Speaker 32: set of like physical or like an object could could create.
[2:41:06] Speaker 1: The bad human skull? This is the brain inside of
[2:41:10] Speaker 1: the skull?
[2:41:11] Speaker 32: You think the conscious existence, this is where a red
[2:41:14] Speaker 32: comes from.
[2:41:14] Speaker 1: This is the thing, right?
[2:41:15] Speaker 32: Do you think the redness the conscious experience of redness
[2:41:19] Speaker 32: is that you think in your imagination is as is
[2:41:24] Speaker 32: the same as a like some set of neurons that
[2:41:28] Speaker 32: gives you a pattern?
[2:41:29] Speaker 2: Do you think that's that's equal? Yeah.
[2:41:30] Speaker 1: When your body interacts with the world around it, it
[2:41:33] Speaker 1: triggers of patterns of neurons and synapses firing in your brain,
[2:41:39] Speaker 1: and then that pattern can be stored in your brain.
[2:41:42] Speaker 1: And then when you recall things using your memory, that
[2:41:45] Speaker 1: same pattern and firings happens in your brain. Which is
[2:41:48] Speaker 1: why whether I'm dreaming about ice cream or whether I'm
[2:41:51] Speaker 1: eating ice cream, the same regions of my brain are
[2:41:54] Speaker 1: lighting up.
[2:41:55] Speaker 32: Okay, let's me make like positive and other kind of example. Uh,
[2:42:01] Speaker 32: there's this like a famous you know, famous thought experiment
[2:42:05] Speaker 32: called Mary's Room.
[2:42:07] Speaker 2: And uh, Mary.
[2:42:10] Speaker 32: Basically is as a person who lives in a black
[2:42:14] Speaker 32: and white world. He is she is, you know, she
[2:42:18] Speaker 32: only experienced black and white word and then she only
[2:42:23] Speaker 32: knows about redness just the knowledge like she has. She
[2:42:28] Speaker 32: knows everything about redness. So in her memory and in
[2:42:33] Speaker 32: her neurals, she has everything about redness, but she has
[2:42:36] Speaker 32: never seen redness.
[2:42:38] Speaker 1: Because you remembering feedback from visual apparatus. Right, So when
[2:42:44] Speaker 1: you visualize old Zabin, when you visualize something with your eyeballs,
[2:42:50] Speaker 1: your eyeballs trigger a pattern inside of your brain. That
[2:42:53] Speaker 1: pattern is retained and remembered. So if if your eyeballs
[2:42:57] Speaker 1: have never visualized red, has no way of storing that
[2:43:01] Speaker 1: pattern in your brain.
[2:43:03] Speaker 5: Here's the thing.
[2:43:03] Speaker 32: Here's here's a thing. This is actually a real like
[2:43:06] Speaker 32: real philosophical thought experiment. And maybe I'm not qualified to
[2:43:11] Speaker 32: actually go down down rabbit hole, but people have been
[2:43:14] Speaker 32: talking about this for a long time, and it's not
[2:43:16] Speaker 32: like you can answer it just with's feel worse. Just
[2:43:19] Speaker 32: you know, I think it's it's good to go.
[2:43:21] Speaker 16: Like read about it.
[2:43:22] Speaker 32: But what's what I mean by that? If she hasn't
[2:43:26] Speaker 32: seen the quality quality of redness, she even if she
[2:43:30] Speaker 32: has all sort of memories or all sort of information
[2:43:34] Speaker 32: about redness, she could not understand what redness.
[2:43:37] Speaker 1: Is, so she's never experienced it. Our brain that exdores
[2:43:41] Speaker 1: actual experiences. So if you haven't experienced hey, stop talking
[2:43:47] Speaker 1: over me.
[2:43:48] Speaker 13: Yes, okay.
[2:43:49] Speaker 1: If you've never experienced redness, you have no way of
[2:43:52] Speaker 1: conceptualizing redness because the pattern in your brain has never
[2:43:56] Speaker 1: been initiated, which is why, For example, my mother is
[2:43:59] Speaker 1: color blind, but she used to see color when she
[2:44:02] Speaker 1: was young, which is why sometimes her dreams are in
[2:44:05] Speaker 1: color and sometimes they're not. But people that are born
[2:44:08] Speaker 1: color blind don't see color in their dreams because they've
[2:44:11] Speaker 1: never seen color in real life. Your brain is a
[2:44:13] Speaker 1: storage apparatus and it can only reproduce what it is
[2:44:17] Speaker 1: actually seen.
[2:44:19] Speaker 2: But that's not the question.
[2:44:20] Speaker 32: The question is not that she is not color blind.
[2:44:24] Speaker 2: She is.
[2:44:26] Speaker 32: She has every information about redness stored in her brain.
[2:44:30] Speaker 32: She does not write that is the question, does not no,
[2:44:34] Speaker 32: but she does no.
[2:44:35] Speaker 1: She doesn't.
[2:44:36] Speaker 2: Again, let me repeat, repeat the.
[2:44:40] Speaker 1: Attention.
[2:44:41] Speaker 32: If you've never seen red, black and white room, but
[2:44:44] Speaker 32: she knows everything about rediness, I gotta meet you.
[2:44:46] Speaker 1: We'll try this again. If you've never seen redness, you
[2:44:50] Speaker 1: don't know what it's like. You lack the ability to
[2:44:54] Speaker 1: know what it's like. Because the way redness works is
[2:44:57] Speaker 1: you have to perceive a particular wave of fe You
[2:45:00] Speaker 1: need an actual frequency of photon to be absorbed by
[2:45:05] Speaker 1: your eyeball and transmit that to the brain. That's what
[2:45:09] Speaker 1: seeing red is like. No one can describe it to you.
[2:45:12] Speaker 1: No one can tell you what it's like. If you
[2:45:14] Speaker 1: haven't seen it, you don't know what it's like. It's
[2:45:17] Speaker 1: like asking what color is the sound of smell? None
[2:45:20] Speaker 1: of that makes sense. You're crossing over things that don't
[2:45:23] Speaker 1: cross over. But listen, this conversation has been absolutely brutal,
[2:45:27] Speaker 1: and it's not going to go anywhere. So I got
[2:45:29] Speaker 1: to move on to someone with better arguments. And I
[2:45:32] Speaker 1: know that Muslims love the quality of argument. It's not
[2:45:34] Speaker 1: a good argument. I know you're a next Muslim or
[2:45:37] Speaker 1: deconstructing Muslim, but you got to do better. It's not
[2:45:39] Speaker 1: a good argument. All right, come back sometime with a
[2:45:41] Speaker 1: different argument. Okay, that was brutal. The Cool says I
[2:45:48] Speaker 1: had a personal experience with Lord Krishna and Lord Ganasha.
[2:45:52] Speaker 1: Am I just fighting converting to Hinduism because I'm going
[2:45:55] Speaker 1: to do it anyway? The Cool you're killing me today. Listen.
[2:46:00] Speaker 1: I mean, for most people, that's a justifiable reason. It
[2:46:02] Speaker 1: really is. Snickerdodle, come in again. Thank you so much,
[2:46:05] Speaker 1: Snickerdoodle for a ten dollar superchest says as a child,
[2:46:08] Speaker 1: I know I used to have that vague feeling that,
[2:46:10] Speaker 1: even while I thought God cared about me and loved
[2:46:13] Speaker 1: me and answered my prayers, that it did not make
[2:46:16] Speaker 1: any sense to me why others went through bad stuff.
[2:46:18] Speaker 1: So this is a really good point. Okay, So, Snickerdodle,
[2:46:23] Speaker 1: one of the things that gave me pause when I
[2:46:25] Speaker 1: was a deconstructing believer was this idea that I thought
[2:46:28] Speaker 1: God was good to me and I was thinking about
[2:46:32] Speaker 1: a friend of mine. I was having a conversation with
[2:46:34] Speaker 1: a friend of mine that was upset that it seemed
[2:46:36] Speaker 1: like God wasn't good to him and he all he
[2:46:40] Speaker 1: wanted was evidence and he was frustrated that he couldn't
[2:46:44] Speaker 1: get it. And I, halfway in my brain thought, well,
[2:46:48] Speaker 1: you know, God only reveals himself to people who like
[2:46:50] Speaker 1: he really thinks, you know, are Sincere. I was gonna
[2:46:53] Speaker 1: say the old bullshit, right. I stopped myself midway and
[2:46:56] Speaker 1: I was like, no, no, no, no, this is that
[2:46:57] Speaker 1: person I actually know who I know is Sincere. That's
[2:46:59] Speaker 1: a bullet should answer. Then that got me thinking, well,
[2:47:02] Speaker 1: what about all the children that are dying from bone
[2:47:05] Speaker 1: cancer and their parents aren't being answered? Like once you
[2:47:08] Speaker 1: Once you stop saying God is real because he's real
[2:47:10] Speaker 1: to me, and you look at other people's lives, then
[2:47:13] Speaker 1: it becomes really difficult. Viprus is currently deconstructing Well, thank
[2:47:17] Speaker 1: you for being here, Viper, thank you for the super
[2:47:19] Speaker 1: Chat says your stream is helping me short circuit years
[2:47:22] Speaker 1: of painful waffling. However, Chat keeps asking me to worship
[2:47:26] Speaker 1: Doug maybe believer. Well don't worry, Vitbra, you don't have
[2:47:30] Speaker 1: to worship Doug. Doug will never force anyone to worship him.
[2:47:33] Speaker 1: Doug is the rock of ages though and his consort
[2:47:36] Speaker 1: Sharon Stone. They are the firm foundation, the grounding for
[2:47:42] Speaker 1: all grounding. But you don't have to uh, Doug. Dougosaurus
[2:47:47] Speaker 1: erectus says, question, what's your best evidence you are doing
[2:47:50] Speaker 1: it wrong? I'm about right actually, Thanks Dougasaurus. Thank you
[2:47:56] Speaker 1: for the six sixty six. Hel Nero and Boltage says,
[2:48:00] Speaker 1: as I told my cheat chew Wieners, Praise Doug. I
[2:48:04] Speaker 1: don't know what a chew wiener is, but praise Doug. Anyways,
[2:48:08] Speaker 1: Thank you, Voltage and Daniel, thank you for the nineine
[2:48:11] Speaker 1: to nine. Super Chest says, God's more worried about who's
[2:48:13] Speaker 1: sleeping with whom rather than feeding starving children. That's the
[2:48:16] Speaker 1: fucking that's the truth. He's way more concerned about what
[2:48:19] Speaker 1: you're doing with your tally whacker than why there are
[2:48:22] Speaker 1: three million children that are gonna die of starvation this
[2:48:25] Speaker 1: year and just a couple more Superchest friends, doctor says,
[2:48:28] Speaker 1: Christians keep dropping the call. Maybe upgrade from Holy Spirit
[2:48:31] Speaker 1: dial up to Faith Fiber with better bandwidth for divine revelations.
[2:48:36] Speaker 1: Well you know they're on that mega mobile. Most likely
[2:48:39] Speaker 1: that that's gonna be a real problem. And we used
[2:48:40] Speaker 1: to joke about Mega Mobile, but now it's a real thing,
[2:48:43] Speaker 1: So buckle up friends. Kevin, thank you for the super chat. Kevin.
[2:48:47] Speaker 1: Why is that doctor Kip? Is that doctor Kip on
[2:48:50] Speaker 1: your screen? Anyways? You are too good at your job.
[2:48:53] Speaker 1: You are working yourself out of a job. Kevin, I
[2:48:56] Speaker 1: appreciate the superchat. I don't know if that is the case,
[2:48:59] Speaker 1: but I underst stand what you're saying. If I deconvert
[2:49:02] Speaker 1: all these people, eventually I won't have anyone left to deconvert.
[2:49:04] Speaker 1: I'll be out of a job, but I'm gonna try. Kevin.
[2:49:06] Speaker 1: Thank you so much, buddy. And John Paul says, what
[2:49:09] Speaker 1: the fuck is astro projection? Projection sounds like some bad diarrhea.
[2:49:13] Speaker 1: It's when you leave your body and you see things
[2:49:15] Speaker 1: outside of your body. People claim to do it, but
[2:49:17] Speaker 1: they've never been verified. And Luke or says, justin we
[2:49:21] Speaker 1: both have something in common. People compliment me for being
[2:49:24] Speaker 1: such a good cook. Sorry for the typo. I mean
[2:49:28] Speaker 1: to say good cook from rock card. Well, if you're
[2:49:32] Speaker 1: good at the first the first word, I would imagine
[2:49:35] Speaker 1: you'd have to be rock hard. Thank you for being here.
[2:49:37] Speaker 1: And thank you for supporting the stream. I really do
[2:49:41] Speaker 1: appreciate it. And mister misters says, you mentioned Darth Dawkins,
[2:49:44] Speaker 1: so of course I looked him up. Holy shit, he
[2:49:47] Speaker 1: is why we need Pike Hospitals back. I agree, Darth
[2:49:51] Speaker 1: Dawkins is. He's insane. Actually, he's absolutely insane. All right,
[2:49:56] Speaker 1: let me grab our next guest, Pitch Black Days and
[2:50:00] Speaker 1: so Lavino a good friend. Good to see you, says,
[2:50:03] Speaker 1: not that it matters. But the Immortal Kombat noise is
[2:50:06] Speaker 1: saying toasty, not whoop see. I did find toasty first.
[2:50:09] Speaker 1: I'm adding whoopseee. So we've got toasty. We're gonna get
[2:50:12] Speaker 1: whoopsie in here. I got your solo, Thank you, Thank
[2:50:15] Speaker 1: you for the wind though. Pitch Black, welcome in. Are
[2:50:18] Speaker 1: you at least eighteen? And are you believer?
[2:50:21] Speaker 5: Yes?
[2:50:21] Speaker 33: I am a believer and I am eighteen. And your
[2:50:24] Speaker 33: problem says, your God is imaginary. Prove me you're wrong, right,
[2:50:29] Speaker 33: So I can prove my God is real?
[2:50:31] Speaker 1: Right, I would love for you to do that. Let's start.
[2:50:34] Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning, Okay, who is your god?
[2:50:38] Speaker 2: The sun?
[2:50:41] Speaker 1: The sun, like the physical sun above our heads.
[2:50:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the sun. Yeah, the physical Sun.
[2:50:49] Speaker 1: Sure, And you believe that the Sun is God not
[2:50:52] Speaker 1: just a burning ball of like helium and plasma.
[2:50:58] Speaker 2: No, not really.
[2:50:59] Speaker 33: I do believe it burning ball of helium and plasma because, hey,
[2:51:04] Speaker 33: it kind of projected life on the planet.
[2:51:08] Speaker 1: Well, photons, you think about it, It projects photons on
[2:51:10] Speaker 1: the planet. I think that photons are and brains are
[2:51:14] Speaker 1: different things. Do you think they're different things?
[2:51:17] Speaker 2: So? Sorry, could you repeat that question?
[2:51:19] Speaker 1: Yeah? Do you think that brains and photons are made
[2:51:22] Speaker 1: of different things?
[2:51:25] Speaker 2: Yeah? I do.
[2:51:26] Speaker 33: I think brains essentially process photons such as images and whatnot.
[2:51:32] Speaker 1: Okay, And is the Sun or brain or is it
[2:51:35] Speaker 1: made of something else?
[2:51:38] Speaker 33: No, I just believe it's plasma, right, it's just plasma science,
[2:51:43] Speaker 33: and essentially that is my god in the sense, because
[2:51:47] Speaker 33: not that I worshiped the Sun, but I do believe
[2:51:49] Speaker 33: the Sun.
[2:51:50] Speaker 2: Is the god of the Solar system. You get what
[2:51:52] Speaker 2: I'm saying.
[2:51:54] Speaker 1: Does the Sun think?
[2:51:58] Speaker 33: No, I don't think so. I don't think there's any evidence. Okay,
[2:52:02] Speaker 33: son thinks, Well.
[2:52:03] Speaker 1: Then you don't believe the Son is god. A god
[2:52:05] Speaker 1: is like an actual thinking agent.
[2:52:11] Speaker 33: I mean, if you personify it, you could say that.
[2:52:14] Speaker 33: But I don't believe that God has to actually be personified.
[2:52:19] Speaker 1: No, I'm not personifying. I'm saying that's the definition of
[2:52:21] Speaker 1: a god. A God, by definition, has a thinking capacity
[2:52:25] Speaker 1: and agency.
[2:52:29] Speaker 2: Oh okay, right, so you just don't know you're a nachst.
[2:52:33] Speaker 33: Sounds like, yeah, no, I don't believe in like a
[2:52:38] Speaker 33: Christian goddess. Oh no, no, because there is no evidence
[2:52:41] Speaker 33: for that. But in the sense of the sun itself,
[2:52:45] Speaker 33: the sun rises every day and the sun does exist,
[2:52:47] Speaker 33: and I can prove it.
[2:52:49] Speaker 1: We agree the sun exists, but we also agree that
[2:52:51] Speaker 1: the son is not a thinking agent, which means you
[2:52:54] Speaker 1: don't believe in God. You're actually an atheist and you
[2:52:56] Speaker 1: don't know it yet.
[2:53:00] Speaker 33: No, like Christian God, No, I don't believe in that.
[2:53:03] Speaker 33: If you in that aspect, yes, I guess so I
[2:53:06] Speaker 33: am an atheist, But.
[2:53:07] Speaker 2: I would say your God.
[2:53:10] Speaker 33: I was looking at the word you're so, I was thinking,
[2:53:13] Speaker 33: maybe it applies to me and an acdotal sense what
[2:53:17] Speaker 33: I consider God.
[2:53:19] Speaker 1: Well, I would say it does apply to you, but
[2:53:21] Speaker 1: not your definition of God. Definition of God doesn't change.
[2:53:28] Speaker 33: Yeah, no, no, okay, okay, in a general sense, yes,
[2:53:31] Speaker 33: then I think I'll concede it but like, yeah, I do.
[2:53:34] Speaker 2: Believe in the sun and whatnot.
[2:53:36] Speaker 33: So yeah, may the solar system be with you.
[2:53:40] Speaker 1: Hey made the solar systemic with you too, friend, I
[2:53:43] Speaker 1: appreciate that. All right, cheers, have a give one.
[2:53:49] Speaker 14: Tuo.
[2:53:51] Speaker 1: Okay, I'll give him credit. That was funny. I think
[2:53:54] Speaker 1: I found I think I think this might be a
[2:53:59] Speaker 1: what what do you call it when you remember something
[2:54:02] Speaker 1: but it's actually wrong. I don't think Mortal Kombat has
[2:54:05] Speaker 1: a whoopsie sound. I think it is toasty. I think
[2:54:08] Speaker 1: people are remembering it as whoopsie. It sounds like whoopsee,
[2:54:17] Speaker 1: but it actually is toasty. Here's toasty toasty separated. It's
[2:54:22] Speaker 1: just toasty. I think a lot of us had that.
[2:54:26] Speaker 1: The Mandela effect, that's what it is. I think it's
[2:54:29] Speaker 1: a Mandela effect. I don't think that's actually what was
[2:54:32] Speaker 1: in the video game. But Solo, thank you for letting
[2:54:36] Speaker 1: me know. Cosmic Flow, thank you for the super chat
[2:54:38] Speaker 1: says this really is simulation. Then something someone had to
[2:54:42] Speaker 1: create who would basically be a kind of god, at
[2:54:45] Speaker 1: least in the sense of having total control. Yeah, the
[2:54:48] Speaker 1: simulation theory hasn't come up today, but you know it's
[2:54:51] Speaker 1: going to like it's only a matter of time before
[2:54:53] Speaker 1: simulation theory pops in. All right, We've got Michael with us.
[2:54:57] Speaker 1: How you do and Michael.
[2:55:00] Speaker 34: Hey man, am I on here?
[2:55:01] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[2:55:01] Speaker 1: You're up, Bud. Sweet Michael. Are you at least eighteen
[2:55:06] Speaker 1: and are you a believer?
[2:55:09] Speaker 34: Yes, I am eighteen, and I am probably one of
[2:55:12] Speaker 34: the least believing people that's ever existed on the planet.
[2:55:14] Speaker 34: I just had a quick question for you. Somehow'm interested
[2:55:17] Speaker 34: about like hearing about somebody like you specifically.
[2:55:20] Speaker 1: Sure, you can ask a question, but I got to
[2:55:22] Speaker 1: ask one more question. Are you driving?
[2:55:25] Speaker 2: No?
[2:55:25] Speaker 1: No, No, I'm at work.
[2:55:26] Speaker 34: I'm a truck driver. I'm in Chicago, Like I'm a
[2:55:28] Speaker 34: local truck driver, but I'm parked for like breaking stuff.
[2:55:30] Speaker 34: I have the truck on because how I have the
[2:55:32] Speaker 34: air condition. It's super hot, you know, fair enough?
[2:55:34] Speaker 1: What's the question? Uh?
[2:55:36] Speaker 34: So I ran into your channel a little bit ago.
[2:55:39] Speaker 34: I think it's awesome, you know, like I've watched all
[2:55:41] Speaker 34: the atheist stuff like Hitchens and Dowkins and all those guys,
[2:55:44] Speaker 34: you know, but you come from like a different angle
[2:55:47] Speaker 34: where it's super fascinating to watch you talk to people
[2:55:51] Speaker 34: and just watch people like walk into walls constantly, you know,
[2:55:54] Speaker 34: when you're basically talking about the stuff they claim to believe,
[2:55:58] Speaker 34: like scripture and all that stuff. I was gonna ask
[2:56:02] Speaker 34: you other questions, but I watch a podcast with you
[2:56:05] Speaker 34: and some other guy where you basically told your whole
[2:56:07] Speaker 34: story of how you'd deconstructed and stuff. And what I
[2:56:10] Speaker 34: was curious was you seem very like skeptical and like
[2:56:16] Speaker 34: pretty normal about the way that you look at things right,
[2:56:20] Speaker 34: Like it reminds me of me when I was young,
[2:56:21] Speaker 34: and I was introduced to it when I was like
[2:56:23] Speaker 34: six seven, eight years old, and for me, it just
[2:56:25] Speaker 34: didn't take It made no sense, you know, Like I
[2:56:28] Speaker 34: found myself asking, like finding all these contradictions that you
[2:56:32] Speaker 34: talk about all the time.
[2:56:33] Speaker 2: But as like a.
[2:56:33] Speaker 34: Kid, which I think a lot of kids do, what
[2:56:36] Speaker 34: do you think was able to get you, like when
[2:56:41] Speaker 34: you were young and you first started and keep you
[2:56:43] Speaker 34: in there for so long?
[2:56:45] Speaker 1: I think in experience, not fully knowing the text, growing
[2:56:51] Speaker 1: up in an environment where everyone believed it, and then
[2:56:55] Speaker 1: on top of that, I would say a little bit
[2:56:57] Speaker 1: of sunken cause fallacy. So I invested so much into
[2:56:59] Speaker 1: it I wanted to see it all the way through
[2:57:01] Speaker 1: and not give up on it early. So I think
[2:57:04] Speaker 1: those were kind of some of the reasons why I
[2:57:06] Speaker 1: stayed in so long. I was thinking critically about a
[2:57:09] Speaker 1: lot of these issues. I was just willing to put
[2:57:12] Speaker 1: them on the shelf, put these difficult issues on the
[2:57:14] Speaker 1: shelf and say, yeah, this is kind of a problem,
[2:57:17] Speaker 1: but I'll get I got other things to worry about now,
[2:57:19] Speaker 1: I'll get back to it eventually. I did get back
[2:57:21] Speaker 1: to all those issues, and it turns out that there's
[2:57:23] Speaker 1: really not good explanation for those issues, and the Bible
[2:57:27] Speaker 1: doesn't make sense, and neither does Christianity.
[2:57:31] Speaker 34: Right, Yeah, that makes sense. Being so like invested into
[2:57:34] Speaker 34: it that you just felt like you just put the
[2:57:37] Speaker 34: rest that you're questioning on faith and you'll deal with
[2:57:39] Speaker 34: it later. Yep, that makes that makes sense. And then uh, yeah,
[2:57:44] Speaker 34: I mean that was that was pretty much it. I
[2:57:45] Speaker 34: know you're trying to like talk to believers and stuff
[2:57:47] Speaker 34: and like debate them, and I'm trying to listen to
[2:57:49] Speaker 34: it too because I'm a work so and then I
[2:57:51] Speaker 34: just had one more thing for you. Yesterday I was
[2:57:53] Speaker 34: listening you said you said something that I've told tons
[2:57:56] Speaker 34: of people, and I think a lot of people don't
[2:57:59] Speaker 34: think about it as much as they should. And it
[2:58:02] Speaker 34: was you were talking to some like crazy lady that
[2:58:05] Speaker 34: ended up saying something about like she would burn her
[2:58:07] Speaker 34: kids if she ate whatever. I don't know, Yeah, she
[2:58:11] Speaker 34: was crazy, and you you brought up a point to
[2:58:12] Speaker 34: her that I try to make to my brother and
[2:58:15] Speaker 34: other people. And I tried to drag him out of
[2:58:17] Speaker 34: it where you know, she says that she was a
[2:58:19] Speaker 34: heroin addict and she and God helped pull her out
[2:58:22] Speaker 34: of it, and this and that, and I've tried to
[2:58:24] Speaker 34: make the points of people the same that you made it.
[2:58:27] Speaker 34: It's like super sad, and I think really like soul
[2:58:30] Speaker 34: crushing for people to use religion and all that stuff
[2:58:34] Speaker 34: to pull themselves out. They do all the hard work,
[2:58:37] Speaker 34: you know, they take all the blame because they're sinners
[2:58:40] Speaker 34: and they're like failed people. They take the blame for
[2:58:42] Speaker 34: their addiction and all these problems. They do all the
[2:58:44] Speaker 34: hard work to pull themselves out, and they take none
[2:58:46] Speaker 34: of the credit for it. They give all the credit
[2:58:48] Speaker 34: to God, some non existent thing. And then eventually if
[2:58:52] Speaker 34: they fall back into it, then they take all the
[2:58:55] Speaker 34: blame on themselves again and they think that they failed
[2:58:58] Speaker 34: when really they're the ones that pulled themselves out and
[2:59:00] Speaker 34: they get no credit for it, right, you know. And
[2:59:02] Speaker 34: I think this is like a circular thing that causes
[2:59:06] Speaker 34: way more like damage to people.
[2:59:08] Speaker 2: You know.
[2:59:08] Speaker 1: Well, they've been trained to think that way. They've been
[2:59:10] Speaker 1: trained that everything good comes from God and everything that's
[2:59:13] Speaker 1: bad is our We did it, we made that problem.
[2:59:17] Speaker 2: Right.
[2:59:17] Speaker 34: It's a it's pretty it's pretty messed up, you know.
[2:59:21] Speaker 34: But anyways, then, uh, I appreciate your time. I send
[2:59:24] Speaker 34: you some like chats and stuff when I can't. The
[2:59:26] Speaker 34: first time I've been up, I'm not the guy that
[2:59:28] Speaker 34: you're trying to talk to you because I'm like, I
[2:59:29] Speaker 34: don't know, I'm like somebody that's just never understood how
[2:59:32] Speaker 34: people could believe this in the first place. You know,
[2:59:34] Speaker 34: since like six or five years old.
[2:59:36] Speaker 1: You were smarter than me, Michael, I don't think I
[2:59:39] Speaker 1: was smarter.
[2:59:39] Speaker 34: I think I just kind of have like a little
[2:59:41] Speaker 34: bit of a I think I have like a little
[2:59:43] Speaker 34: bit of a like maybe a flight bit of like autism,
[2:59:47] Speaker 34: you know, like maybe I'm slightly on the spectrum. So
[2:59:49] Speaker 34: like certain things, I just don't see them like other
[2:59:52] Speaker 34: people see them. Like I think sometimes I think too practically.
[2:59:55] Speaker 34: And when I was a kid, I found myself when
[2:59:58] Speaker 34: I found like stuff on You Too, by Christopher Hitsan
[3:00:00] Speaker 34: and all these guys, I found myself asking the same
[3:00:02] Speaker 34: questions as like a six seven year old, you know,
[3:00:04] Speaker 34: like who made God?
[3:00:06] Speaker 13: If God made everybody?
[3:00:07] Speaker 2: Who's God's God?
[3:00:08] Speaker 34: Or you know, like things that just make no sense,
[3:00:11] Speaker 34: you know, yeah, but sure, yeah, man, thanks for thanks
[3:00:13] Speaker 34: for your time, and I'll be checking in every everyone.
[3:00:16] Speaker 34: I'm a truck driver, you know, so I listened to
[3:00:17] Speaker 34: a lot of random stuff.
[3:00:19] Speaker 1: Oh, thanks for stopping in. Be safe man the other man.
[3:00:22] Speaker 26: Thanks cheers.
[3:00:23] Speaker 1: Michael Dubbs is the truck drivers. It's hard work. I
[3:00:31] Speaker 1: gotta be honest. There's a lot of jobs I wouldn't
[3:00:32] Speaker 1: want to have. That's a tough one. I wouldn't want
[3:00:35] Speaker 1: to be on the road all day. I'm glad that
[3:00:38] Speaker 1: somebody is doing it. Obviously I wouldn't want to do it.
[3:00:42] Speaker 1: All right, I'm wen need the next I guess here
[3:00:46] Speaker 1: from the YouTube queue, so we'll grab our next in.
[3:00:50] Speaker 1: Mike Lightner, thank you so much for sending out five
[3:00:53] Speaker 1: DZ Debate memberships. This is generous, Mike. Good to see you, Mike.
[3:00:56] Speaker 1: We also have Taco cat with us. Now, Taco, can
[3:00:59] Speaker 1: you hear me?
[3:01:01] Speaker 5: I can can you hear me?
[3:01:02] Speaker 1: I can hear you? How you didn't? Taco?
[3:01:05] Speaker 5: All right? How about yourself doing a good?
[3:01:07] Speaker 1: Thank you for asking.
[3:01:10] Speaker 5: And and to that question, he asked, I am eighteen,
[3:01:12] Speaker 5: and I I am a believer in Jesus Christ.
[3:01:16] Speaker 1: Now, Taco, what would be the most compelling evidence or
[3:01:18] Speaker 1: argument for the Christian God being real?
[3:01:23] Speaker 2: So?
[3:01:23] Speaker 5: I think I have two. I'm gonna start with the
[3:01:27] Speaker 5: moral argument, and that basically works in this sense. Yeah,
[3:01:37] Speaker 5: I'm gonna ask, like, do you think evil exists?
[3:01:42] Speaker 21: No?
[3:01:44] Speaker 5: Okay, so if a woman gets raped by some random
[3:01:52] Speaker 5: guy on the street, she or that's not evil.
[3:01:55] Speaker 1: That's Evil's a label that we put on things. It's
[3:01:58] Speaker 1: not a thing that exists.
[3:02:00] Speaker 5: Okay, So there's so if morality it isn't real, then
[3:02:06] Speaker 5: they're then raping someone is not technically a bad thing.
[3:02:12] Speaker 1: No good and batter subjective terms, right, So there's no
[3:02:17] Speaker 1: there's no objective good or bad. Everything's subjective, which is
[3:02:21] Speaker 1: why I can say, like, I believe slavery is wrong,
[3:02:24] Speaker 1: even though the Bible disagree with the Bible, God says
[3:02:27] Speaker 1: Slavery's okay.
[3:02:29] Speaker 5: Well, I've read the whole Bible through and I never
[3:02:32] Speaker 5: saw anywhere it said that slavery is Okay, you didn't.
[3:02:37] Speaker 1: Read livid AGAs twenty five.
[3:02:38] Speaker 2: Then.
[3:02:40] Speaker 5: Leviticus twenty five, So what does that.
[3:02:42] Speaker 1: Say, says that you can own slaves? I want to
[3:02:44] Speaker 1: read it.
[3:02:48] Speaker 5: Yeah, that's definitely one of the books that I don't
[3:02:50] Speaker 5: remember as well. For sure that in numbers just not
[3:02:53] Speaker 5: a lot of.
[3:02:53] Speaker 1: People are looking forward to reading Levitigus. But if you
[3:02:57] Speaker 1: go to the law code, it says in verse forty
[3:03:00] Speaker 1: four says, as for the male and female slaves who
[3:03:05] Speaker 1: you may have, it is from the nations around you
[3:03:07] Speaker 1: that you may acquire male and female slaves. You may
[3:03:11] Speaker 1: also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you,
[3:03:13] Speaker 1: and from their families that are with you, have been
[3:03:15] Speaker 1: born in your land. They may be your property. You
[3:03:18] Speaker 1: may keep them as a possession for your children after you,
[3:03:21] Speaker 1: for them to inherit as property. These you may treat
[3:03:24] Speaker 1: as slaves. But as for your fellow Israelites, no one
[3:03:27] Speaker 1: shall rule over the other with harshness.
[3:03:30] Speaker 5: Okay, Well, what chapter.
[3:03:32] Speaker 1: Was it in Leviticus twenty five twenty five?
[3:03:37] Speaker 5: I'm just gonna put a bookmark in to read that later.
[3:03:40] Speaker 1: I would also direct you to Exodus twenty one. I
[3:03:44] Speaker 1: would read those two passages in parallel. But anyways, what's next?
[3:03:49] Speaker 5: Okay, So regardless of the Bible, though I know, I
[3:03:56] Speaker 5: believe that God can be proven to exist without uh
[3:04:01] Speaker 5: the Bible. What was my other argument? So the fastest
[3:04:13] Speaker 5: not the fastest thinker?
[3:04:14] Speaker 1: Here, we don't have we don't have rules like there's
[3:04:17] Speaker 1: no timer up here.
[3:04:19] Speaker 5: Sweet? Okay?
[3:04:22] Speaker 3: So yeah, uh.
[3:04:27] Speaker 5: Okay, So this is this is kind of like simulation theory.
[3:04:32] Speaker 5: But okay, so think about this in say you designed
[3:04:43] Speaker 5: a video game and you code it, you design it,
[3:04:49] Speaker 5: you model the characters, and those characters have programs, right,
[3:04:55] Speaker 5: and they live you know, the way you programmed them to, right,
[3:05:02] Speaker 5: and they are not capable of expanding beyond their programming.
[3:05:10] Speaker 5: Would you agree with that as.
[3:05:12] Speaker 1: Far as I can tell, Yeah, a character that is
[3:05:15] Speaker 1: programmed can only do what's within its programmed ability, even
[3:05:19] Speaker 1: if it's like AI capabilities. Even if something has AI capabilities,
[3:05:24] Speaker 1: there's still going to be some kind of a limit.
[3:05:28] Speaker 2: Right.
[3:05:29] Speaker 5: So what I propose is that this world that we
[3:05:33] Speaker 5: live in an experience, is designed by God and we
[3:05:40] Speaker 5: being designed by God have a limited capacity of operation,
[3:05:44] Speaker 5: like we can't understand his world that he lives in.
[3:05:49] Speaker 5: Is because we are in a world he designed and
[3:05:54] Speaker 5: can only operate at the level he designed us to
[3:05:56] Speaker 5: operate at, which would create an excellent explanation as to
[3:06:01] Speaker 5: why we can't understand God, you know.
[3:06:06] Speaker 1: Or the more plausible answer is that there is no God, right,
[3:06:09] Speaker 1: because if we're just saying, listen, there's a thing that
[3:06:12] Speaker 1: exists that is completely unfalsifiable and you can't test it
[3:06:17] Speaker 1: because it's in a different realm, I put anything over there.
[3:06:20] Speaker 1: I mean, I could put the tooth theory and Santa
[3:06:22] Speaker 1: Claus over there.
[3:06:26] Speaker 5: That's true. This is a good point. But so I mean,
[3:06:29] Speaker 5: you wouldn't be.
[3:06:32] Speaker 1: Well, you can't disprove Santa Claus or tooth theory, right,
[3:06:37] Speaker 1: so your argument is only as valid as the Santa
[3:06:40] Speaker 1: Claus and tooth theory. So just keep in mind this
[3:06:42] Speaker 1: is kind of the reason why this argument fails is
[3:06:45] Speaker 1: because it can be true for anything. So if you say, well,
[3:06:48] Speaker 1: you can't disprove my theory, therefore it's true, then I
[3:06:51] Speaker 1: would say, okay, cool, Then you should believe in the
[3:06:53] Speaker 1: tooth theory as well, because you can't disprove my theory
[3:06:55] Speaker 1: and the tooth theory.
[3:06:58] Speaker 5: It's a good point, right point, So I could you
[3:07:01] Speaker 5: could like that's an argument to prove anything's real because
[3:07:04] Speaker 5: you can't disprove it. It's a good point, right.
[3:07:06] Speaker 1: I don't think that things are true just because there's
[3:07:08] Speaker 1: not a way to falsify the claim. Right now, the
[3:07:13] Speaker 1: Christian God, as it turns out, is easy to falsify.
[3:07:16] Speaker 5: Why because he's.
[3:07:17] Speaker 1: A logical contradiction. You want to hear? Why?
[3:07:20] Speaker 5: Go ahead?
[3:07:21] Speaker 1: Because the Bible says he's perfectly just, and he's perfectly good,
[3:07:24] Speaker 1: and that he's all knowing and that he's all powerful.
[3:07:28] Speaker 1: Do you believe in these attributes?
[3:07:31] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[3:07:32] Speaker 1: Okay, so then all we have to ask ourselves is
[3:07:35] Speaker 1: whether or not that seems to be the case. Right,
[3:07:39] Speaker 1: So you probably believe that God is perfectly just? Right?
[3:07:43] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[3:07:44] Speaker 1: Have you read second seam in twenty one.
[3:07:47] Speaker 5: Second Samuel, we don't recall I don't recall.
[3:07:52] Speaker 1: That in second Seam in twenty one there's a situation
[3:07:55] Speaker 1: and we'll read some of it where God sends a
[3:07:57] Speaker 1: famine on the Israelites in the is because of something
[3:08:02] Speaker 1: that David's predecessor did when Saul was king, he did
[3:08:05] Speaker 1: a big no no, And so David is pleading before
[3:08:10] Speaker 1: the Lord for three years during a famine, trying to
[3:08:12] Speaker 1: figure out why why are we under a famine? God,
[3:08:15] Speaker 1: what are we doing here? And then finally God talks.
[3:08:18] Speaker 1: So let's read the passage a little bit. So in
[3:08:22] Speaker 1: twenty one it says, now there was a famine in
[3:08:24] Speaker 1: the days of David for three years, year after year,
[3:08:28] Speaker 1: and David inquired of the Lord. The Lord said, there
[3:08:31] Speaker 1: is blood gilt on Saul and on his house because
[3:08:33] Speaker 1: he put the Gibey Knights to the death. I remember
[3:08:36] Speaker 1: in Joshua chapter nine, they were supposed to let the
[3:08:38] Speaker 1: Gibbe Knights live and they went back on their word. Right,
[3:08:42] Speaker 1: So it says so the king called the Gibbe knights
[3:08:43] Speaker 1: and spoke to them. So David caused the Gibby knights
[3:08:46] Speaker 1: and he's like, listen, there's a famine. And God finally
[3:08:51] Speaker 1: answered me after three years and said, here's why there's
[3:08:53] Speaker 1: a famine. So they put their heads together about the solution, right,
[3:08:58] Speaker 1: and the solution is actually this, let seven of his
[3:09:02] Speaker 1: sons be handed over to us, and we will impale
[3:09:05] Speaker 1: them before the Lord at Gibeon on the mountain of
[3:09:08] Speaker 1: the Lord, and the king said, I will hand them over.
[3:09:11] Speaker 1: So David hands over seven random men of the household
[3:09:16] Speaker 1: of Saul. They go out to the mountain of the
[3:09:18] Speaker 1: Lord and they impale them on poles, and then God
[3:09:22] Speaker 1: is pleased, So it says in verse nine he gave
[3:09:27] Speaker 1: them into the hands of the Gibbean nights. They impaled
[3:09:29] Speaker 1: them on the mountain before the Lord. The seven of
[3:09:32] Speaker 1: them perished together. They were put to death on the
[3:09:35] Speaker 1: first day of harvest, at the beginning of the barley harvest.
[3:09:38] Speaker 1: And then we read later on that God, after this
[3:09:41] Speaker 1: act ends, he finally answers their prayer and sends the
[3:09:44] Speaker 1: rein right. So what I would say is, do you
[3:09:49] Speaker 1: think it's fair to punish an entire people group with
[3:09:51] Speaker 1: a famine just because their prior leader made some bad decisions.
[3:09:58] Speaker 5: I wouldn't. I mean, yeah, I wouldn't say so. But
[3:10:03] Speaker 5: how would I know that there wasn't something deeper going on?
[3:10:06] Speaker 5: I mean, obviously at face level that would be you know, like,
[3:10:10] Speaker 5: no way you know? So I can see your points.
[3:10:13] Speaker 5: Could you remind me where that is in the scripture?
[3:10:17] Speaker 2: Again?
[3:10:17] Speaker 1: Yeah? T Second Samuel, chapter twenty one.
[3:10:21] Speaker 5: Chapter twenty one, go to bookmark that too.
[3:10:26] Speaker 1: If we're asking if God is just, I mean, I've
[3:10:28] Speaker 1: got lots of examples that demonstrate these not just by
[3:10:32] Speaker 1: the fact that he punishes people for crimes they never
[3:10:35] Speaker 1: committed all the time.
[3:10:37] Speaker 5: So, I mean, there's a very interesting common I do
[3:10:40] Speaker 5: have to say about that, and that's in the beginning
[3:10:44] Speaker 5: of time, when Adam, Adam and Eve sinned against God
[3:10:49] Speaker 5: and they were removed from the garden of Eden, they
[3:10:55] Speaker 5: all of his posterity were cursed and they didn't do it,
[3:11:00] Speaker 5: may thing, right.
[3:11:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's not better, right right?
[3:11:05] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[3:11:05] Speaker 5: So like so, so how do you come up with
[3:11:07] Speaker 5: an answer to that? You know, well, I don't think
[3:11:09] Speaker 5: there is a but what I realized, so so what
[3:11:12] Speaker 5: actually what the technical reason for why that actually happened
[3:11:18] Speaker 5: is because Adam was a legal representative of the entire
[3:11:24] Speaker 5: human race in the sense that like so, as he
[3:11:32] Speaker 5: was cursed, we were also cursed.
[3:11:37] Speaker 1: If Donald Trump committed a war crime, should all of
[3:11:40] Speaker 1: Americans be cursed because of it? Like so, if Donald
[3:11:42] Speaker 1: Trump decides that he's going to, I don't know, march
[3:11:47] Speaker 1: down into Mexico City and take all of their guava
[3:11:53] Speaker 1: and then come back and murder people along the way
[3:11:56] Speaker 1: who disagreed with what he was doing. Is that something that.
[3:11:59] Speaker 5: All No, of course not, Yeah, of course, I mean,
[3:12:03] Speaker 5: of course not when you when you think about it
[3:12:04] Speaker 5: in an the individual sense, right, Like, so he goes
[3:12:07] Speaker 5: and decides to do that, Like, that's not fair that
[3:12:10] Speaker 5: we get punished for it too, Right, But the reason
[3:12:14] Speaker 5: why he was a I mean I don't know why
[3:12:18] Speaker 5: exactly this was. I mean I read this idea in
[3:12:22] Speaker 5: a book called what is it? The DeFi the something
[3:12:32] Speaker 5: of the the total depravity of man?
[3:12:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's something from John Have.
[3:12:37] Speaker 5: You ever read that book?
[3:12:39] Speaker 1: Yeah? I would disagree with it pretty hard.
[3:12:43] Speaker 5: But like that would explain why like everyone is condemned
[3:12:48] Speaker 5: to send even like you know, babies who haven't done anything,
[3:12:52] Speaker 5: and why we all suffer.
[3:12:56] Speaker 1: No, I don't, I don't. I don't think it does
[3:12:58] Speaker 1: because it's sill. Doesn't explain why God set up a
[3:13:01] Speaker 1: system that was unjust. Describing the unjust system is not
[3:13:05] Speaker 1: the same as describing why the unjust system exists.
[3:13:09] Speaker 5: Right, So about that right being an unjust system, it
[3:13:15] Speaker 5: wouldn't have been unjust had Adam and Eve not sinned,
[3:13:19] Speaker 5: Like it would have operated effectively the way it should have.
[3:13:23] Speaker 2: Right.
[3:13:23] Speaker 1: It's like a white abuser saying, I didn't you made
[3:13:26] Speaker 1: me hit you. I didn't want to hit you. You
[3:13:28] Speaker 1: made me hit you.
[3:13:31] Speaker 5: That's not what I meant. What I meant was like
[3:13:35] Speaker 5: he made Adam the legal representative of all of humanity. Well,
[3:13:42] Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know why, but but let's just
[3:13:45] Speaker 5: for the moment say that that's the case.
[3:13:47] Speaker 1: But that is the problem.
[3:13:50] Speaker 5: But hold on, let me let's uh, let me finish
[3:13:53] Speaker 5: my point and then and then we'll go back to
[3:13:55] Speaker 5: whatever that is he made it. Assume he made it
[3:13:59] Speaker 5: that way, right, he made Adam the legal representative of humanity,
[3:14:04] Speaker 5: and assuming they had never sinned, it would have functioned
[3:14:08] Speaker 5: perfectly and no one would have ever suffered and had
[3:14:11] Speaker 5: any problems. Right, it would have just been heaven on
[3:14:14] Speaker 5: Earth indefinitely. So that system is something that we suffer from,
[3:14:21] Speaker 5: not because God made that system, but because we fell. No.
[3:14:28] Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm an engineer by trade, right, So, like
[3:14:31] Speaker 1: all of my machines have to have a failure mode.
[3:14:33] Speaker 1: When somebody does something wrong or the machine malfunctions, there's
[3:14:36] Speaker 1: a failure mode, and I actually have to make sure
[3:14:38] Speaker 1: that when my machine fails, that it doesn't explode in
[3:14:42] Speaker 1: like kill a whole factory of people. Right, So like
[3:14:45] Speaker 1: God knew exactly what would happen when Adam Eve sinned.
[3:14:48] Speaker 1: He knew that they would sin. In fact, he planned it,
[3:14:50] Speaker 1: according to Ephesians chapter one. And so the failure mode
[3:14:55] Speaker 1: that was enacted when Adam and Eve sin was still
[3:14:57] Speaker 1: his fault. He didn't have to make that failure mode.
[3:15:00] Speaker 1: He could have made the failure mode anything he wanted to.
[3:15:02] Speaker 1: He could have made the failure mode getting kickled by
[3:15:04] Speaker 1: a feather.
[3:15:06] Speaker 5: That's true. So, yeah, that's a good point in the
[3:15:11] Speaker 5: did you bring up? Although I wouldn't say it's God's fault,
[3:15:21] Speaker 5: I would say that it so he put the responsibility
[3:15:26] Speaker 5: in our hands. He knew we were going to disobey him,
[3:15:29] Speaker 5: but it didn't make him or he didn't make us choose.
[3:15:34] Speaker 5: We chose ourselves. Even though he knew we were going
[3:15:37] Speaker 5: to choose. It still doesn't mean that he made us.
[3:15:40] Speaker 5: So it's I didn't technically not his fault, right.
[3:15:42] Speaker 1: No, I think it is his fault, right because he's
[3:15:45] Speaker 1: in charge of the consequences. We're not asking if God
[3:15:48] Speaker 1: forced us to sin. No, one's asking that question. We're saying,
[3:15:51] Speaker 1: what would be the appropriate reaction to somebody's sitting Right,
[3:15:54] Speaker 1: So if my child sins. Imagine I have a household
[3:15:57] Speaker 1: of ten kids. If one of my children's sin, I'm
[3:16:00] Speaker 1: not going to curse the entire household. That'd be silly.
[3:16:05] Speaker 5: Yeah it would. But but like I said before, you know,
[3:16:09] Speaker 5: the system would have worked fine if we hadn't sinned,
[3:16:13] Speaker 5: you know what I mean.
[3:16:13] Speaker 1: Well, that's irrelevant whether it would have worked fine if
[3:16:16] Speaker 1: nobody had sinned. God obviously planned for people to sin.
[3:16:19] Speaker 1: Pahesian Chapter one says that the elect were chosen before
[3:16:23] Speaker 1: the foundation of the world in Jesus Christ. Yeah, before
[3:16:28] Speaker 1: God created us, somebody would sin.
[3:16:32] Speaker 5: Well, yeah, obviously, so I mean if he knows all,
[3:16:36] Speaker 5: you know what I mean.
[3:16:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, So if he created human beings knowing they would sin,
[3:16:40] Speaker 1: then it's not like what's happened after the sin is
[3:16:43] Speaker 1: like planed. B Obviously, he knew it was going to happen,
[3:16:46] Speaker 1: and he decided what would happen as a consequence. He
[3:16:49] Speaker 1: could have made the consequence anything.
[3:16:52] Speaker 5: Yeah, that's true. Well, actually the consequence, well, the Bible
[3:16:59] Speaker 5: does say the content quince is death, which is just
[3:17:02] Speaker 5: the inverse of life.
[3:17:04] Speaker 1: Right, it seems to be that.
[3:17:08] Speaker 5: Yeah. So one way I do like to think about
[3:17:12] Speaker 5: this issue is m God. At the beginning of time.
[3:17:18] Speaker 5: God wanted to make a species of free creatures who
[3:17:23] Speaker 5: could decide to do whatever they wanted to do, right,
[3:17:26] Speaker 5: And he looked all the different what's that? What's that?
[3:17:30] Speaker 1: Can I push back on that just before you get
[3:17:32] Speaker 1: too far into it? Sure, go ahead, because I don't
[3:17:34] Speaker 1: think he created a bunch of people where he wanted
[3:17:37] Speaker 1: them to do what they wanted, because if you don't
[3:17:40] Speaker 1: do exactly what he wants, he'll throw you in hell
[3:17:42] Speaker 1: for eternity.
[3:17:47] Speaker 5: Okay, not doing exactly what he wants, just not doing anything, well,
[3:17:55] Speaker 5: you know what, I guess that might as well be
[3:17:57] Speaker 5: put that way.
[3:17:59] Speaker 1: I mean, he will do it like if you commit
[3:18:00] Speaker 1: even one sin, you go to hell, right, right.
[3:18:03] Speaker 5: So he designed a world for us to live in
[3:18:06] Speaker 5: and we can do anything that he designed us to do.
[3:18:18] Speaker 5: But if we do anything or that he didn't design
[3:18:21] Speaker 5: us to do, then we get punished. Right So I Okay,
[3:18:25] Speaker 5: I see what you're saying.
[3:18:27] Speaker 1: It's a pretty strict set of parameters too, because like
[3:18:30] Speaker 1: even thought crimes are a crime according to Jesus, like
[3:18:33] Speaker 1: if if if you just look at the woman and
[3:18:35] Speaker 1: lust for five seconds yere in hell?
[3:18:37] Speaker 5: Now you know the predisposition of humanity is to sin.
[3:18:44] Speaker 1: Though, what if if we're predisposed to sin, that means
[3:18:47] Speaker 1: it's God's fault that we sin?
[3:18:52] Speaker 5: No, because we are cursed by lineage by God because
[3:18:58] Speaker 5: bye bye Adam being the legal representative of all of
[3:19:04] Speaker 5: human posterity.
[3:19:05] Speaker 1: And who set that up? Was it God?
[3:19:09] Speaker 5: It was?
[3:19:10] Speaker 1: Well, I decided that would be the case.
[3:19:13] Speaker 5: He did. But like I did make a point earlier,
[3:19:16] Speaker 5: is that that system wouldn't have been a bad thing
[3:19:23] Speaker 5: if we didn't choose to sin.
[3:19:25] Speaker 1: Doesn't matter. God knew he would sin, and then he
[3:19:28] Speaker 1: decided he would do something that was unjust when we sinned.
[3:19:32] Speaker 1: And if we're designed with the sin nature, that means
[3:19:35] Speaker 1: we have to sin.
[3:19:38] Speaker 5: So that does bring me back to the point I
[3:19:40] Speaker 5: was going to make earlier, is that at the beginning
[3:19:43] Speaker 5: of time, God, you know, knew that we were going
[3:19:47] Speaker 5: to sin, right, and he looked and he wanted to create,
[3:19:50] Speaker 5: you know, a species who had free will even though
[3:19:55] Speaker 5: he so let's just say he sat there at the
[3:19:58] Speaker 5: beginning of time and he looked over all these different
[3:20:02] Speaker 5: variations of the world he might make, and he chose
[3:20:07] Speaker 5: the one that had the least bad happening in it.
[3:20:11] Speaker 5: I know it sounds weird, but what I'm trying to
[3:20:16] Speaker 5: express through that is that creating a species of free
[3:20:20] Speaker 5: will people is not possible without them sinning. It's going
[3:20:28] Speaker 5: to happen.
[3:20:30] Speaker 1: So if that's the case, if God creates human beings
[3:20:33] Speaker 1: with the only inevitable result that they will in fact sin,
[3:20:37] Speaker 1: And then he says, when you do sin, I'll torture
[3:20:40] Speaker 1: you for all eternity, even though you can't help it.
[3:20:43] Speaker 1: You have to sin because you're human. Does not just.
[3:20:49] Speaker 5: But at the same time, at the beginning of time,
[3:20:52] Speaker 5: he did plan for that and created and planned to
[3:20:58] Speaker 5: have Jesus die for our sense so that we can
[3:21:02] Speaker 5: be reconciled to him.
[3:21:05] Speaker 1: Only if you believe the nonsense. I don't believe the nonsense, right,
[3:21:10] Speaker 1: But why wouldn't you it's not true.
[3:21:13] Speaker 5: Well, wouldn't it be worth it if it was true?
[3:21:17] Speaker 1: I don't think so. I wouldn't worship a god that
[3:21:19] Speaker 1: thinks it's okay to own slaves and rape women.
[3:21:25] Speaker 5: Okay, Well, why is that a bad thing? If you
[3:21:27] Speaker 5: don't believe in moral and absolute morality if those things
[3:21:31] Speaker 5: aren't bad.
[3:21:32] Speaker 1: It's a personal choice. I personally wouldn't worship somebody that
[3:21:35] Speaker 1: intentionally harms people. Right now, if you do listen, if
[3:21:41] Speaker 1: you say listen, I will worship somebody who intentionally harms
[3:21:45] Speaker 1: other human beings. Go for it. You're welcome to do that.
[3:21:48] Speaker 1: Just know that, like they're going to be tracked by
[3:21:50] Speaker 1: the government for a while, right.
[3:21:55] Speaker 5: I mean, obviously I don't believe that's who God is,
[3:21:58] Speaker 5: but those are those verses you providing with her some
[3:22:01] Speaker 5: good stuff I'm gonna have to study up on. I
[3:22:03] Speaker 5: appreciate that.
[3:22:05] Speaker 1: So yeah, fails.
[3:22:09] Speaker 5: Uh sure, sure.
[3:22:12] Speaker 1: Have you read much of the Bible?
[3:22:14] Speaker 5: Well, I've read the whole thing through once. I don't
[3:22:17] Speaker 5: remember a lot of it because you know, it's pretty big.
[3:22:21] Speaker 1: But it is big.
[3:22:22] Speaker 5: I continue to read it. But yeah, I've read the
[3:22:25] Speaker 5: whole Bible.
[3:22:26] Speaker 1: Would you say that the New Testament fundamentally bases the
[3:22:31] Speaker 1: messiahship of Jesus on being predicted in the Old Testament,
[3:22:37] Speaker 1: Like he's the Messiah that the Old Testament said was coming.
[3:22:43] Speaker 5: Uh yeah, I mean I don't remember where it says
[3:22:48] Speaker 5: in the in the Old Testament. That that Jesus was
[3:22:52] Speaker 5: ah that, but.
[3:22:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, right, yeah. The basic claim of Christianity is that
[3:22:59] Speaker 1: God must a savior, the Messiah, and Jesus is that
[3:23:04] Speaker 1: right now? If Jesus is not the promised Messiah, what
[3:23:07] Speaker 1: would that mean about Christianity?
[3:23:09] Speaker 5: Well, I mean the whole thing's not true.
[3:23:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, I mean the whole thing's not true. Now.
[3:23:14] Speaker 1: As it turns out, I spent a lot of time,
[3:23:15] Speaker 1: many years, studying the prophecies that are given for the Messiah,
[3:23:20] Speaker 1: both in the Old Testament and with the New Testament claims.
[3:23:23] Speaker 1: And I don't think Jesus fulfilled one prophecy, not even one.
[3:23:28] Speaker 1: And so if he didn't fulfill even one prophecy, he
[3:23:31] Speaker 1: certainly can't be the Messiah. And you want to see
[3:23:36] Speaker 1: an example of what I'm talking about.
[3:23:39] Speaker 5: Sure, give me some more verses to study. Sure, sorry, excuse.
[3:23:42] Speaker 1: Me, don't worry, all right, We're gonna pop down to
[3:23:45] Speaker 1: Isaiah seven. So Isaiah seven is the quintessential passage that
[3:23:49] Speaker 1: theoretically predicted the virgin birth of Jesus. What Bible translation
[3:23:55] Speaker 1: are you in right now?
[3:23:57] Speaker 5: New King James version?
[3:23:59] Speaker 1: Fair enough, I don't know what the New King Isaiah
[3:24:01] Speaker 1: verse seven. Well, we're going to be in Isaiah chapter seven.
[3:24:05] Speaker 1: Oh right, And I don't know how the new King
[3:24:09] Speaker 1: James is going to read because I don't typically read
[3:24:12] Speaker 1: the King James.
[3:24:14] Speaker 5: But what are you reading from?
[3:24:15] Speaker 1: I'm going to be reading from the NRSV. But my
[3:24:19] Speaker 1: guess is your King James is going to read different
[3:24:21] Speaker 1: from mine. Now I'll tell you why later. So in
[3:24:23] Speaker 1: the beginning of the chapter, chapter seven, verse one, it says,
[3:24:27] Speaker 1: in the days of a Has, son of Jonatham, son
[3:24:29] Speaker 1: of Isaiah, King of Judah, King Reason of Aram, and
[3:24:32] Speaker 1: King Pica's son of Vermalia of Israel went up to
[3:24:34] Speaker 1: attack Jerusalem, but could not conquer it. When the House
[3:24:37] Speaker 1: of David heard that Aram had alight itself with Ephrium,
[3:24:40] Speaker 1: the heart of aa Has and the heart of his
[3:24:41] Speaker 1: people shook as the trees of the forest shake it
[3:24:43] Speaker 1: for the wind. Now, if you're not familiar with the
[3:24:45] Speaker 1: Old Testament, there's some stuff happying here. So what's happened
[3:24:49] Speaker 1: is King a Has is the King of Judah, and
[3:24:52] Speaker 1: the king the kingdom's already divided. We've got the Northern
[3:24:55] Speaker 1: ten tribes and Judah and Benjamin in the south. The
[3:24:57] Speaker 1: Northern ten tribes had an alliance with the Aramians, and
[3:25:01] Speaker 1: they actually want to go down to Judah dethrone King
[3:25:05] Speaker 1: a Has and put in a different king that is
[3:25:08] Speaker 1: more favorable to the Ephria might Aramian alliance. Now it
[3:25:13] Speaker 1: doesn't work. They mount an attack, but they're actually unsuccessful.
[3:25:17] Speaker 1: But nevertheless a Has and the people of Judah they're
[3:25:21] Speaker 1: pretty damn shook. They just went through a failed attack
[3:25:24] Speaker 1: and they're like, shit, maybe they'll be more successful on
[3:25:27] Speaker 1: round number two. So God sends the prophet Isaiah to
[3:25:30] Speaker 1: kind of shore up their confidence. And there's three different prophecies.
[3:25:34] Speaker 1: The second one is the one we care about. The
[3:25:37] Speaker 1: first prophecy ends by saying, if you do not stand
[3:25:40] Speaker 1: firm in faith, you shall not stand at all. So
[3:25:43] Speaker 1: God is saying, listen, you got to have faith or
[3:25:45] Speaker 1: you might actually things might go south.
[3:25:48] Speaker 2: Now.
[3:25:49] Speaker 1: Verse ten is where you get to the fun stuff
[3:25:51] Speaker 1: that your Bible is going to interpret as a virgin birth.
[3:25:55] Speaker 1: It says again the Lord spoke to Aas, saying, ask
[3:25:58] Speaker 1: a sign of the Lord, ry God, and let it
[3:25:59] Speaker 1: be as deep as she old or as high as heaven.
[3:26:02] Speaker 1: But a has said, I will not ask, and I
[3:26:04] Speaker 1: will not put the Lord to the test. Then Isaiah said, here, then,
[3:26:07] Speaker 1: o house of David, is it too little for you
[3:26:09] Speaker 1: to weary mortals that you weary my God? Also therefore
[3:26:14] Speaker 1: the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the
[3:26:17] Speaker 1: young woman is with child and shall bear a son,
[3:26:20] Speaker 1: and shall name him Emmanuel. He shall eat kurds and
[3:26:23] Speaker 1: honey by the time he knows how to refuse evil
[3:26:25] Speaker 1: and choose the good. For before the child knows how
[3:26:28] Speaker 1: to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land
[3:26:31] Speaker 1: before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted.
[3:26:35] Speaker 1: So a plain reading of the prophecy, I think is
[3:26:38] Speaker 1: quite easy. There's a child who's already conceived, he's about
[3:26:41] Speaker 1: to be born, and before that child is old enough
[3:26:44] Speaker 1: to know right from wrong, the two kings, namely Paca
[3:26:47] Speaker 1: and Reason, those two kings are going to be wiped out.
[3:26:50] Speaker 1: It's a prophecy for King a Has about King a Has.
[3:26:54] Speaker 1: There's nothing in here about a Messiah being born of
[3:26:56] Speaker 1: a virgin. So so it certainly couldn't have been fulfilled
[3:27:04] Speaker 1: by Jesus if it was actually talking about the the
[3:27:08] Speaker 1: Ephraimites Syrian war.
[3:27:15] Speaker 5: I'm gonna be honest with you. I kind of zoned
[3:27:17] Speaker 5: out like I'm not. I'm not, I'm actually really tired.
[3:27:21] Speaker 5: But yeah, I couldn't fallow. Could you like pinpoint for
[3:27:26] Speaker 5: me the point the specific things that that make that
[3:27:30] Speaker 5: prophecy not be able to work.
[3:27:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So first of all, the prophecy is too
[3:27:34] Speaker 1: King a Has. The prophecy is said to be a
[3:27:38] Speaker 1: sign for King a Has. The purpose of the prophecy
[3:27:43] Speaker 1: is to bring more faith and reassurance to King a
[3:27:46] Speaker 1: Has into his household, and so the everything about the
[3:27:49] Speaker 1: prophecy is for King a Has. And the prophecy is
[3:27:52] Speaker 1: very clear. It says there's a child who's already pregnant,
[3:27:56] Speaker 1: she's about to give birth, and before that child knows
[3:27:59] Speaker 1: right from wrong, the two kings that are attacking you,
[3:28:01] Speaker 1: they're going to be wiped out. So everything in the
[3:28:05] Speaker 1: prophecy is about King a Has and his current the
[3:28:08] Speaker 1: war that's going on that he's dealing with. There's nothing
[3:28:11] Speaker 1: in here about a messiah, and there's certainly nothing in
[3:28:13] Speaker 1: here about a virgin birth.
[3:28:19] Speaker 5: Okay, I don't follow why where that disproves Jesus being
[3:28:26] Speaker 5: a thing.
[3:28:27] Speaker 1: Well, because Matthew claims that Jesus fulfilled this prophecy.
[3:28:32] Speaker 2: Okay, but Jesus couldn't.
[3:28:34] Speaker 5: Fulfil Matthew claims that that that specific prophecy was fulfilled.
[3:28:40] Speaker 1: By Jesus, right, Matthew, Chapter one.
[3:28:43] Speaker 5: Matthew chapter one. Okay, okay, well that's some more good
[3:28:48] Speaker 5: stuff for me to read.
[3:28:51] Speaker 1: Taco, thanks for coming up and chat with us and
[3:28:53] Speaker 1: being courteous. You know a lot of people get up
[3:28:55] Speaker 1: here and they kind of lose their mind because their
[3:28:56] Speaker 1: beliefs are being challenged.
[3:28:59] Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, I'm I mean, like I appreciate too, like
[3:29:01] Speaker 5: you're you're a good debater. Yeah, I mean, I definitely
[3:29:06] Speaker 5: you know, like you know, I want to have a
[3:29:09] Speaker 5: good conversation. You know, I'm not trying to like I
[3:29:14] Speaker 5: don't want to hurt people. You know, and people get
[3:29:18] Speaker 5: so divided in religion debates. But I believe that you're
[3:29:23] Speaker 5: doing you're you're doing pretty good debates. I appreciate that
[3:29:27] Speaker 5: you that you're calm, you know that you thanks to
[3:29:32] Speaker 5: keep things. Yeah, so thank I appreciate uh with a
[3:29:35] Speaker 5: productive conversation.
[3:29:36] Speaker 1: Have a great one, buddy, It do Bye. We do
[3:29:42] Speaker 1: get nice people from time to time and it's fun
[3:29:45] Speaker 1: to talk to them. Let me grab a couple of
[3:29:47] Speaker 1: super chats. We'll move right on my friends. Dexter says,
[3:29:49] Speaker 1: Jeremiah wrote the Bible was a bullfrog there for animism. Actually,
[3:29:55] Speaker 1: this is a fair point. If Jeremiah was a bullfrog
[3:29:57] Speaker 1: and Jeremiah did write a book in the Bible, then
[3:30:00] Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe animism is true design. Thank you
[3:30:03] Speaker 1: for the Fiightlar super Chest says, if not for God,
[3:30:05] Speaker 1: I'd be gang banging. It's just one step from if
[3:30:08] Speaker 1: there was a god, there'd be no gang bangers. Come on. Actually,
[3:30:12] Speaker 1: this is a really good point design because he's suggesting
[3:30:15] Speaker 1: that God saved him from life of the streets, but
[3:30:19] Speaker 1: like he didn't save so many others. Like, there are
[3:30:22] Speaker 1: so many people that are out there on the streets
[3:30:25] Speaker 1: bagging for this God to be a parent, and he's
[3:30:27] Speaker 1: no where to be found. It's gone, you know. Josh
[3:30:31] Speaker 1: Barba says, this Muslim word salad tastes like it's full
[3:30:34] Speaker 1: of pork. Oh my gosh, was it ever? Yeah, that
[3:30:36] Speaker 1: was a rough word, salad. I think he was a
[3:30:38] Speaker 1: nice enough guy, but boy, that was tough to listen to.
[3:30:42] Speaker 1: And Hiro, good to see you again. Thank you for
[3:30:44] Speaker 1: the six sixty six. My screen name is Hiro Fantastic,
[3:30:49] Speaker 1: a play on high refint oh on the Hifin card
[3:30:53] Speaker 1: in the Tarot deck. And because I'm fantastic, you are
[3:30:56] Speaker 1: fantastic too, justin fantastic. Well, thank you, Hiro. I appreciate
[3:30:59] Speaker 1: that I don't know anything about tarot cards, but big
[3:31:02] Speaker 1: w for deconstruction from the religion and finding something that
[3:31:06] Speaker 1: works for you. And also thank you sfp iv A
[3:31:14] Speaker 1: t e Er. Thank you for the super chat. Theist,
[3:31:17] Speaker 1: give me evidence that theism that atheism is true. In
[3:31:20] Speaker 1: other words, give me evidence that you don't believe that
[3:31:23] Speaker 1: God exists. How the f will I do that? So
[3:31:25] Speaker 1: this is the point we do pretty regularly, which is
[3:31:28] Speaker 1: you can't prove that nothing exists. You have to start somewhere, right,
[3:31:32] Speaker 1: like you can't prove that the tooth threy doesn't exist
[3:31:35] Speaker 1: because in fact, the tooth three doesn't exist. Music by Artemis.
[3:31:39] Speaker 1: Thank you for the supertest is justin you realize you've
[3:31:41] Speaker 1: created an alternate universe where by the year three thousand,
[3:31:44] Speaker 1: everyone on the planet will be worshiping the rock of Doug.
[3:31:47] Speaker 1: Hail Doug. Actually we've talked about this music, and I
[3:31:50] Speaker 1: think you're right. When archaeologists look back in the year
[3:31:53] Speaker 1: three thousand and find what we're doing. Some people are
[3:31:56] Speaker 1: going to convert to Dougism. It's going to happen. Friends,
[3:32:00] Speaker 1: Just remember Doug loves everyone no matter what they believe.
[3:32:03] Speaker 1: ATHO Recar two, thank you for the ten hour super chat. So,
[3:32:08] Speaker 1: since I don't know how TikTok works, is it viable
[3:32:12] Speaker 1: at all for you to go to theist lives and
[3:32:14] Speaker 1: engage with them there? I come across them all the
[3:32:17] Speaker 1: time and run around in circles when I use their
[3:32:20] Speaker 1: arguments THEO. I have a pretty strict rule about how.
[3:32:23] Speaker 32: I do my debates.
[3:32:24] Speaker 1: I don't go into believers' lives and debate them for
[3:32:27] Speaker 1: a couple of reasons. One because it's a waste of
[3:32:29] Speaker 1: my time. I spend almost all my time streaming here,
[3:32:33] Speaker 1: and why would I go to somebody else's live stream
[3:32:36] Speaker 1: rather than building up my own channel. The other thing, too,
[3:32:39] Speaker 1: is when you're in one of those live streams typically
[3:32:42] Speaker 1: and you're making good points, they just kick you. Number
[3:32:47] Speaker 1: two is I think that if we just leave them
[3:32:50] Speaker 1: all fucking alone, their live streams will die and they'll
[3:32:53] Speaker 1: have to come to us. The only reason why these
[3:32:55] Speaker 1: Christians have live stream debates is because atheists are showing
[3:32:59] Speaker 1: up watching why stop doing it, Stop watching theist live
[3:33:04] Speaker 1: debates and make them come to us, put them on
[3:33:07] Speaker 1: our turf, on our playing field. Stop stop giving them
[3:33:10] Speaker 1: any of your attention, your time, your views, or anything
[3:33:14] Speaker 1: of that nature. They don't they don't need it. They've
[3:33:15] Speaker 1: got God. Dan, thank you for the super Chest says,
[3:33:19] Speaker 1: forget shark week, justin is barbecue and for WU week.
[3:33:22] Speaker 1: Holy shit, has it been a WO week?
[3:33:24] Speaker 27: Dan?
[3:33:24] Speaker 1: My goodness, it's the amount of WU we've it must
[3:33:28] Speaker 1: be in the daytime. Somebody said it was a full moon. Dan,
[3:33:31] Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the case. It could be
[3:33:32] Speaker 1: the full moon. But if that's the case, I think
[3:33:35] Speaker 1: the full moon is another form of WU. So voltageays
[3:33:38] Speaker 1: on my last chat, Chihuahua weiener. There we go, Chihuahua
[3:33:42] Speaker 1: wiener or a dashun. Actually I love a dashing hound,
[3:33:46] Speaker 1: but yeah, a Chihuahua wiener is roughly a dashing hound,
[3:33:50] Speaker 1: I believe. Thanks for clarification, Carlo says he's gonna try
[3:33:53] Speaker 1: and justify some insane stuff. Carlos, you know they're going
[3:33:56] Speaker 1: to they can't help themselves. They're going to justify all
[3:33:59] Speaker 1: kinds of stuff. But that last guest was pretty nice Marcus,
[3:34:03] Speaker 1: my friend, thank you for the five dollars super chet.
[3:34:05] Speaker 1: Great to see it, says Adam Firstman, lawyer for all humans,
[3:34:09] Speaker 1: creative if ridiculous, regardless, I always love hearing a new argument.
[3:34:14] Speaker 1: I'm with you, Marcus, I love hearing a new argument.
[3:34:17] Speaker 1: At least they're thinking, right When they just repeat old
[3:34:20] Speaker 1: bad arguments, that tells me they're not thinking. They just
[3:34:23] Speaker 1: somebody told them an answer. They never thought that it
[3:34:26] Speaker 1: was a good or bad answer. They just repeated the
[3:34:28] Speaker 1: shit because they're not thinking. But people who are thinking
[3:34:32] Speaker 1: try to come up with unique answers. But zach Hey,
[3:34:35] Speaker 1: thank you for the ninety to nine supertest, says the
[3:34:37] Speaker 1: Mortal Kombat sound is saying toasty. That's what I thought.
[3:34:40] Speaker 1: I think the actual Mortal Kombat sound is toasty, not
[3:34:43] Speaker 1: whoop see tofty. It sounds like whoopsee, but it's toasty.
[3:34:47] Speaker 1: Just a couple more superchets. Friends, we'll get our next
[3:34:49] Speaker 1: guest in here. Good juju, thank you for the supertests.
[3:34:53] Speaker 1: Justin Please allow my friend to debate you. You blocked
[3:34:56] Speaker 1: or kicked him talking philosophy or something. I'm begging you
[3:34:59] Speaker 1: to run through his arguments. Well, I don't block anyone.
[3:35:03] Speaker 1: If he got kicked, it's because he thought he was
[3:35:06] Speaker 1: going to come on my live and dictate how the
[3:35:08] Speaker 1: conversation was going to go and then he got kicked.
[3:35:11] Speaker 1: That's how people get kicked. So if you don't want
[3:35:14] Speaker 1: to get kicked, don't come up on my live stream
[3:35:16] Speaker 1: dictating how the conversation is going to happen. Dylan, thank
[3:35:19] Speaker 1: you for sending out a membership, and Edward, thank you
[3:35:22] Speaker 1: for the super test, says hello, friend. Imagine if someone
[3:35:25] Speaker 1: would today act like Samson, do the things he did
[3:35:28] Speaker 1: and shout I'm a man of God. This religion is
[3:35:30] Speaker 1: not cool. Actually, that's the point. If somebody did what
[3:35:33] Speaker 1: the Bible characters were doing, we'd lock them up. Somebody
[3:35:37] Speaker 1: walked around with a job oone of an ass trying
[3:35:39] Speaker 1: to murder a whole bunch of people, it would not
[3:35:42] Speaker 1: go well. It wouldn't go well. Bruce says, dying in
[3:35:47] Speaker 1: a gang bang would be a hell of a way
[3:35:49] Speaker 1: to go. Praise Doug. It would be a hell of
[3:35:51] Speaker 1: a gigo. And I'm glad that his you know, supposed
[3:35:56] Speaker 1: God got him out of it. Noozy, I thank you
[3:36:00] Speaker 1: so much for the supertest, as I was never a Christian.
[3:36:02] Speaker 1: Why am I out of bounds to doubt the existence
[3:36:05] Speaker 1: of Jesus. Most characters of the Torah are fiction or deposits.
[3:36:08] Speaker 1: What's the difference, Lucy, I'm with you. I think that
[3:36:12] Speaker 1: a lot of the people in the Old Testament, like
[3:36:14] Speaker 1: in Genesis, are fictional characters meant to be read as fiction.
[3:36:19] Speaker 1: And Current Dayton Times says, please put your brain drawing
[3:36:21] Speaker 1: on his shirt. I could do that. I still got
[3:36:25] Speaker 1: it down here. I can take it image and put
[3:36:26] Speaker 1: it on a shirt just for you. I can do that.
[3:36:28] Speaker 1: I can do that for you. And Jason says panpsychis
[3:36:34] Speaker 1: are the worst, are worse than theists? Yeah? Actually, Jason,
[3:36:37] Speaker 1: I agree with you. It's pretty bad. And Cosmic Flow
[3:36:40] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the ten dollar supertests says
[3:36:42] Speaker 1: God never existed, but now we're building one AI, smarter, faster, unstoppable.
[3:36:47] Speaker 1: It could save us, wipe us out Heaven or Hell
[3:36:49] Speaker 1: created by us soon. Maybe the question is, isn't if
[3:36:54] Speaker 1: it's what happens next? Cosmic So, I've thought a lot
[3:36:57] Speaker 1: about this, about whether or not there could be a
[3:36:59] Speaker 1: God that evolved within the universe rather than created the universe.
[3:37:04] Speaker 1: And trust me, there's some dialogue that could be said
[3:37:08] Speaker 1: on that topic. It's possible that there is something we
[3:37:11] Speaker 1: might classify as a god that is super evolved out
[3:37:14] Speaker 1: there in the universe, but it certainly wouldn't be the
[3:37:16] Speaker 1: creator of it. American culture says, you can believe in me.
[3:37:20] Speaker 1: I'm real. My only commandment. Believe in yourself and each other. Hey,
[3:37:23] Speaker 1: that's what Doug says. You must be a Doug GUYE
[3:37:26] Speaker 1: welcome in and Adam, thank you for being here. Adam says, hey, buddy, well,
[3:37:30] Speaker 1: hey buddy to you. I hope you're having a good day,
[3:37:32] Speaker 1: Adam and current day and time comes in again and says,
[3:37:36] Speaker 1: whoopsie sound is from timpoole clip. I don't know much
[3:37:40] Speaker 1: about the timpoole clip, but I do know that the
[3:37:42] Speaker 1: whoopsie sound from Mortal Kombat is. I don't believe it's whoopsie.
[3:37:47] Speaker 1: Circles and Sounds says, justin you are my new comfort
[3:37:49] Speaker 1: source that I come to whenever I get preached at
[3:37:52] Speaker 1: or I have to have lost more brain cells listening
[3:37:55] Speaker 1: to Christians. Thank you well, Circles. I appreciate that. Thank
[3:37:58] Speaker 1: you for letting me know. And I'm so sorry that
[3:38:00] Speaker 1: talking to these Christians are so painful. Most of these
[3:38:03] Speaker 1: conversations are pretty rough. Probably, says your honor, my legal
[3:38:07] Speaker 1: counsel did not know right or wrong. I'd like to
[3:38:10] Speaker 1: move for a mistrial. That's the case. Actually, Adam and
[3:38:13] Speaker 1: Eve didn't know right from wrong. Yet they didn't know
[3:38:15] Speaker 1: good from bad until they ate from the tree, which
[3:38:17] Speaker 1: means punishing him for doing something they didn't know was
[3:38:19] Speaker 1: wrong is crazy much less possing all of humanity Space
[3:38:23] Speaker 1: Lord says, if sin is inherited, and if Adam had
[3:38:26] Speaker 1: not sinned, but everyone can sin. We have to hope
[3:38:29] Speaker 1: every one of our ancestors never sinned either. Not helpful.
[3:38:33] Speaker 1: So this is a good point because if if God
[3:38:36] Speaker 1: will curse everybody because of one person's sin, then it
[3:38:39] Speaker 1: didn't matter if Adam and Eve sinned or not. Eventually
[3:38:41] Speaker 1: somebody would sin, and eventually God would have to curse
[3:38:44] Speaker 1: all of humanity. So you end up in the same
[3:38:46] Speaker 1: bad spot. Skepticquest says, Taco, could Adam and Eve have
[3:38:50] Speaker 1: done other than that? Wish God foreknew? If yes, then
[3:38:53] Speaker 1: God is not fore knowoing. If no man has no
[3:38:56] Speaker 1: free will, skepticus, we almost got to the free will topic.
[3:38:59] Speaker 1: We didn't get quite around to it, but I agree
[3:39:01] Speaker 1: with you. God can't change his mind if he's all knowing,
[3:39:04] Speaker 1: and if he's all knowing, he knew they would sin,
[3:39:07] Speaker 1: they couldn't do anything otherwise. Adam says, you got the
[3:39:10] Speaker 1: morality bro right in the Bible toasty. Yeah, actually the
[3:39:14] Speaker 1: Bible morality is fucking toasty, because he will light you
[3:39:17] Speaker 1: on fire for nothing. Samuel, thank you for the five hours,
[3:39:20] Speaker 1: super thanks and a whod the Leftist great to see you.
[3:39:23] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for gifting out five deconstructions of memberships. Guys,
[3:39:27] Speaker 1: the memberships are the backbone of the community that really
[3:39:30] Speaker 1: helps keep things running smoothly. I super appreciate all the
[3:39:34] Speaker 1: support through memberships, and of course you get the cool
[3:39:37] Speaker 1: chat emojis and you get access to the deconstruction cheat sheet.
[3:39:40] Speaker 1: And Bryce a' roney thank you so much for the
[3:39:42] Speaker 1: twenty dollars. Super Chest says God did not want free will.
[3:39:44] Speaker 1: He allowed the evil serpent inside the garden, especially to
[3:39:48] Speaker 1: coax Eve by telling the truth. If God wanted free will,
[3:39:51] Speaker 1: he wouldn't need to send a serpent to manipulate them
[3:39:54] Speaker 1: into making the run choice. So this is just true. Bryce,
[3:39:58] Speaker 1: if God really wanted us to have free will and
[3:40:01] Speaker 1: wanted us to make our own decisions, then he wouldn't
[3:40:03] Speaker 1: have put the serpent in the garden to cause Adam
[3:40:07] Speaker 1: and Eve to sin. I mean, we could take from
[3:40:09] Speaker 1: the story that they weren't as likely to sin without
[3:40:13] Speaker 1: the serpent, But if they were as likely to sin
[3:40:15] Speaker 1: with or without the serpent, then the serpent is redundant.
[3:40:18] Speaker 1: We don't need a damn thing. Carlos, thank you so
[3:40:20] Speaker 1: much for the ten deconstructions of memberships, big big w
[3:40:24] Speaker 1: my friend, thank you so much for your generosity. And
[3:40:27] Speaker 1: with that, I think we are ready to move on
[3:40:30] Speaker 1: to our next caller. Let's grab j R ted from
[3:40:36] Speaker 1: the TikTok Q. Are you doing JR?
[3:40:40] Speaker 5: Good?
[3:40:41] Speaker 1: How are you doing good? Thank you for asking Jay?
[3:40:43] Speaker 1: Are you at least eighteen and are you a believer?
[3:40:48] Speaker 3: I am eighteen and I am on the fence.
[3:40:51] Speaker 1: Cool, okay, So let me ask you. I'm going to
[3:40:53] Speaker 1: ask you a hard question and then an easy question. Sure,
[3:40:57] Speaker 1: the easy question is what's causing you to doubt?
[3:41:04] Speaker 3: So I guess the most pressing thing. I'm pragmatic.
[3:41:09] Speaker 2: You're an engineer.
[3:41:10] Speaker 3: I feel like we can kind of vibe on that level.
[3:41:15] Speaker 3: But from a scientific standpoint, is there a good argument
[3:41:19] Speaker 3: for where all the mass of the universe came from
[3:41:23] Speaker 3: prior to the Big Bang.
[3:41:26] Speaker 1: Well, as far as I'm aware, matter is created by
[3:41:29] Speaker 1: quantum fields. So there's you can ask doctor Blitz about this,
[3:41:33] Speaker 1: He's got a great explanation. But so you can have
[3:41:35] Speaker 1: quantum fields that actually produce mass. So if all of space, time,
[3:41:40] Speaker 1: or whatever whatever is out there, even if it was
[3:41:43] Speaker 1: at one point there was no matter, there was no mass,
[3:41:45] Speaker 1: if it was just nothing but quantum foam, it could
[3:41:48] Speaker 1: in fact produce all the matter that we have.
[3:41:53] Speaker 2: So where.
[3:41:55] Speaker 3: Excuse me? So that quantum pham? Where did that come from?
[3:42:00] Speaker 1: I just think it's eternal. I have no reason to
[3:42:01] Speaker 1: believe that there was ever like a state in which
[3:42:06] Speaker 1: there wasn't something.
[3:42:08] Speaker 3: Okay, So like time and whatever this matter origin is,
[3:42:15] Speaker 3: like code existed always.
[3:42:16] Speaker 1: Well, I think time's difficult because in order for time
[3:42:19] Speaker 1: to exist, you need space and you need material. Right
[3:42:23] Speaker 1: because as far as we can tell, time is like
[3:42:25] Speaker 1: an emergent property of the mature universe, and so would
[3:42:29] Speaker 1: space then at that point, So all that being said,
[3:42:32] Speaker 1: if in fact there was nothing but quantum foam, you
[3:42:36] Speaker 1: run into this really weird situation where there's technically no time.
[3:42:42] Speaker 1: So like, I'm sure there are really good physicists that
[3:42:45] Speaker 1: could explain this better, but to me, it's head spinning.
[3:42:49] Speaker 1: That's why I've never really been a big proponent of
[3:42:51] Speaker 1: the quantum foam idea. I believe in the big bang
[3:42:56] Speaker 1: big crunch model, which is that all the matter and
[3:42:59] Speaker 1: stuff in the U universe has been in a constant
[3:43:02] Speaker 1: cycle of big bang big crunch.
[3:43:05] Speaker 3: It just always existed.
[3:43:07] Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say, so, that's that's my viewpoint. I
[3:43:09] Speaker 1: agree with like Sean Carroll and Roger Penrose and others
[3:43:12] Speaker 1: who believe in the cyclical universe. And I just think
[3:43:16] Speaker 1: even if you take the limited information that we have,
[3:43:20] Speaker 1: I just think it makes more sense. So for example,
[3:43:22] Speaker 1: basic analysis, right, which is you can't get something from nothing, easy, right,
[3:43:29] Speaker 1: But we have something. So if we can't get something
[3:43:31] Speaker 1: from nothing and we have something, then it just seems
[3:43:33] Speaker 1: that there always was something.
[3:43:35] Speaker 3: And then so like, irrespective of any sort of religion,
[3:43:41] Speaker 3: would would you be open to like just that there
[3:43:45] Speaker 3: was some sort of creator to either make that foam
[3:43:49] Speaker 3: or matter, and maybe that creator made all this and
[3:43:55] Speaker 3: just let it ride.
[3:43:56] Speaker 1: Well, I don't know. I don't see what that solves. Right,
[3:43:59] Speaker 1: So if they're all was something, then there's no need
[3:44:02] Speaker 1: for somebody to create this something.
[3:44:09] Speaker 3: If you follow that logic backwards, then nothing comes from nothing, no,
[3:44:15] Speaker 3: because it always was. So you think just time and
[3:44:23] Speaker 3: matter was just always there.
[3:44:25] Speaker 1: That's my belief. Yeah, I think there always has been time,
[3:44:27] Speaker 1: space and matter.
[3:44:30] Speaker 3: Is there like a good argument? Is this like both disprovable?
[3:44:37] Speaker 1: I mean I don't think there's a disproof for it yet.
[3:44:40] Speaker 1: I mean the only thing you can do is positive
[3:44:42] Speaker 1: theories and say, well, before the Big Bang there wasn't anything,
[3:44:46] Speaker 1: But we don't have any evidence of that. There's no
[3:44:48] Speaker 1: evidence that there was nothing before the Big Bang.
[3:44:52] Speaker 3: Right, So if there's like a humanity common knowledge belief, whatever,
[3:45:00] Speaker 3: would the burden of proof be on disproving it or
[3:45:05] Speaker 3: proving it?
[3:45:05] Speaker 1: What do you mean proving what?
[3:45:07] Speaker 3: So, like, you know, for all of humanity there was
[3:45:14] Speaker 3: like basically in every civilization that there's some sort of
[3:45:20] Speaker 3: worship to a creator for you know, as long as
[3:45:25] Speaker 3: humans existed. So would the burden of proof come or
[3:45:30] Speaker 3: be on disproving God's existence or a creator of any
[3:45:34] Speaker 3: sort or proving it?
[3:45:37] Speaker 1: I think a little bit of both. So for example,
[3:45:39] Speaker 1: if you're a Christian and you say that the Christian
[3:45:41] Speaker 1: God is real, I mean the burden of proof is
[3:45:44] Speaker 1: going to be on you. Now I'm making a claim here.
[3:45:48] Speaker 1: My claim specifically is that your God is imaginary, assuming
[3:45:52] Speaker 1: that the people I'm talking to have a specific God
[3:45:55] Speaker 1: like a Law or Vishnu or Jesus, and I actually
[3:45:59] Speaker 1: do have argue that lead with the conclusion or end
[3:46:03] Speaker 1: in the conclusion that the God isn't real. So like
[3:46:06] Speaker 1: I can actually back up my claim. Now that being said,
[3:46:10] Speaker 1: you know, the theists who get up here and talk
[3:46:11] Speaker 1: to me, they actually can't back up their claims. So
[3:46:17] Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's a burden of proof going
[3:46:19] Speaker 1: both both ways. I would only add one more thing though,
[3:46:23] Speaker 1: and then when we're talking about things that we clearly
[3:46:25] Speaker 1: don't have evidence for, there's always going to be It's
[3:46:28] Speaker 1: always more reasonable to reserve judgment on the thing existing.
[3:46:32] Speaker 1: Like if I said there's an invisible teapot circuling Earth,
[3:46:35] Speaker 1: it's just been in orbit for the last five hundred years. Like,
[3:46:41] Speaker 1: I think the most logical thing to do is say, yeah,
[3:46:45] Speaker 1: that doesn't seem right to me. I'm not going to
[3:46:47] Speaker 1: believe that until I see evidence of it.
[3:46:49] Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think just in general, from like a
[3:46:53] Speaker 3: scientific perspective, burden of proof usually goes on proving the
[3:46:57] Speaker 3: thing exists. I think against a little muddy when you
[3:47:03] Speaker 3: know there's tens of thousands of years of precedent saying otherwise,
[3:47:09] Speaker 3: and not to say that makes them right, but you know,
[3:47:13] Speaker 3: to change or disagree with you know that much collective wisdom.
[3:47:22] Speaker 3: To me, it muddy is the water, that's all.
[3:47:24] Speaker 1: I mean. I do agree with you. I mean asking
[3:47:26] Speaker 1: people to prove non existence is a silly thing because
[3:47:29] Speaker 1: things that don't exist don't leave evidence, right, right, So
[3:47:33] Speaker 1: the only thing like even in my arguments, like when
[3:47:35] Speaker 1: I do arguments against the Christian God, I still have
[3:47:39] Speaker 1: to use the Bible and the theology that was made
[3:47:42] Speaker 1: up by men, right, which is why, like I have
[3:47:45] Speaker 1: arguments against the Christian God, but I don't really have
[3:47:49] Speaker 1: an argument against the Daist God. Not luckily, no one
[3:47:52] Speaker 1: believes in a Daist God, because I mean, there are
[3:47:55] Speaker 1: people who do believe in dast God, but they're not
[3:47:57] Speaker 1: going to be up here arguing with me because in
[3:47:59] Speaker 1: the worldview, the deist that God doesn't care what you think.
[3:48:03] Speaker 1: So why do you care to go around to others
[3:48:06] Speaker 1: people's live streams and convince people that there's a deistic
[3:48:08] Speaker 1: god like who cares? He doesn't care about you, why
[3:48:11] Speaker 1: do you care about him? So for all the formalized gods,
[3:48:15] Speaker 1: I think we can mount pretty good arguments against them.
[3:48:19] Speaker 32: Yeah, and.
[3:48:22] Speaker 3: If you could pretend for a second that there was
[3:48:26] Speaker 3: a god, let's say Christianity, do you think it is
[3:48:31] Speaker 3: possible that the word of God was relayed to them
[3:48:36] Speaker 3: and because of the context of the time and you know,
[3:48:42] Speaker 3: limit of man's thought process, that it was interpreted incorrectly.
[3:48:49] Speaker 1: So I mean when you ask about possibilities, right in
[3:48:53] Speaker 1: a god world, all possibilities are possible. So I mean
[3:48:56] Speaker 1: from that worldview, anything is possible. I think the question
[3:48:59] Speaker 1: we need to ask is not what's possible, but what's
[3:49:01] Speaker 1: more likely. So, if there's a God who loves humanity,
[3:49:05] Speaker 1: that wants to communicate with humanity, that wants them to
[3:49:08] Speaker 1: know him, and then there's a book that supposedly came
[3:49:11] Speaker 1: from him, why would he not take care to make
[3:49:14] Speaker 1: sure that it's at least accurate and can convey the
[3:49:17] Speaker 1: information necessary.
[3:49:18] Speaker 3: Yeah, he should have wrote it himself, I guess.
[3:49:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, according to the Book of Exodus, he
[3:49:24] Speaker 1: wrote the Ten Commandments with his own finger on the stone.
[3:49:29] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[3:49:30] Speaker 1: Right, Now, I asked you the easy question at the
[3:49:34] Speaker 1: beginning of the conversation. Now I have to ask you
[3:49:36] Speaker 1: the hard question.
[3:49:38] Speaker 3: Ready, Okay, maybe what are.
[3:49:41] Speaker 1: The factors keeping you in the faith? Because he said
[3:49:43] Speaker 1: you're on the fence. It's means there are some factors
[3:49:45] Speaker 1: that are making you question and some that are keeping
[3:49:48] Speaker 1: you in. What's keeping you in?
[3:49:50] Speaker 3: Well, I just think that you know that basically what
[3:49:58] Speaker 3: I was saying earlier, tens of thousands of years of
[3:50:01] Speaker 3: precedent and people all over the globe making, you know,
[3:50:07] Speaker 3: structures to worship the Higher Being. It's like that collective
[3:50:15] Speaker 3: knowledge and the lack of being able to disprove it
[3:50:20] Speaker 3: just makes me like on the fence, I guess.
[3:50:24] Speaker 1: Sure. So, for the majority of human history, almost everybody
[3:50:29] Speaker 1: in the world believe that the Earth was flat with
[3:50:32] Speaker 1: a dome over top of it. Now, the Greeks did early,
[3:50:35] Speaker 1: not all the Greeks, but some of the Greeks like Aristocenes,
[3:50:39] Speaker 1: figured out that it was round. But just about everybody
[3:50:41] Speaker 1: else besides that believe that it was flat, even into
[3:50:45] Speaker 1: the medieval period. But like, so, let's just say ninety
[3:50:50] Speaker 1: percent or more of all human history believe that the
[3:50:53] Speaker 1: Earth was flat. So I would say that only because.
[3:50:57] Speaker 3: Way more than that.
[3:50:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, right. I don't know if collective people's understanding over
[3:51:04] Speaker 1: history of how the universe works as a collective is
[3:51:07] Speaker 1: a great thing to point to because we can look
[3:51:09] Speaker 1: at all the stuff that they got wrong and be like, well,
[3:51:12] Speaker 1: maybe they got this wrong too, And.
[3:51:14] Speaker 3: I feel like that's a fair criticism. But we can
[3:51:19] Speaker 3: actually prove that the Earth is roundish.
[3:51:24] Speaker 1: Right, we can prove that, right, So we agree that
[3:51:28] Speaker 1: we that we got the actual evidence at hand, right.
[3:51:31] Speaker 3: That's an actual quantitative measurement of it.
[3:51:35] Speaker 1: Let me ask you a couple of difficult questions. Let
[3:51:38] Speaker 1: me ask you a couple of difficult questions. Is it
[3:51:42] Speaker 1: possible that there is a god but it's not the
[3:51:44] Speaker 1: Christian God?
[3:51:45] Speaker 2: Yes?
[3:51:47] Speaker 1: How would you know? I meant, how would you know
[3:51:51] Speaker 1: if there's a.
[3:51:52] Speaker 3: God in the Christian God? Camp firmly I think, like, personally,
[3:51:59] Speaker 3: I just think there's some sort of creator, and whether
[3:52:02] Speaker 3: it was somebody who created all this mass of the
[3:52:06] Speaker 3: universe or whatever and just is watching and laughing or
[3:52:10] Speaker 3: you know, has a hand in the development of whatever.
[3:52:17] Speaker 3: I just don't know.
[3:52:19] Speaker 1: Sure, sure, so what I'm what I'm gonna I don't
[3:52:22] Speaker 1: think I asked my question very well. So let me
[3:52:24] Speaker 1: rephrase a little bit. If in fact there was a god,
[3:52:28] Speaker 1: so I'm not saying atheism. If there was a God
[3:52:31] Speaker 1: but it wasn't the Bible God, how would you test
[3:52:35] Speaker 1: to know that it wasn't the Bible God it was
[3:52:38] Speaker 1: just some other god?
[3:52:41] Speaker 3: So, like, how would you say one religion is correct and.
[3:52:45] Speaker 2: Others or not?
[3:52:46] Speaker 1: Exactly? How would you imagine you have two options, the
[3:52:49] Speaker 1: Christian God or a generic god of theism like Plato's
[3:52:54] Speaker 1: God or God's.
[3:52:56] Speaker 3: Obviously not measurable, right.
[3:53:00] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[3:53:03] Speaker 3: To me, I think just from a human perspective, I
[3:53:10] Speaker 3: think having faith is whatever your faith is, is actually
[3:53:15] Speaker 3: a healthy thing. It helps with like keeping society looking
[3:53:23] Speaker 3: to be respective of like one another, uh, and to
[3:53:28] Speaker 3: do the right thing, whether or not it's just a
[3:53:31] Speaker 3: story like you know, if you have kids and you're
[3:53:35] Speaker 3: trying to tell them to do the right thing, like
[3:53:37] Speaker 3: Santa Claus or whatever, but like some sort of belief
[3:53:39] Speaker 3: where there's a commonality of doing the right thing and
[3:53:46] Speaker 3: kind of working forward to a higher goal. I think
[3:53:51] Speaker 3: is a net positive for any society.
[3:53:55] Speaker 1: No, No, I agree with all of what you said.
[3:53:58] Speaker 1: What I'm asking is if you, if you personally j R.
[3:54:01] Speaker 1: If you have to choose between a generic God existing
[3:54:05] Speaker 1: and the Bible God existing, what methods would you use
[3:54:09] Speaker 1: to come to the conclusion as to which one existed?
[3:54:17] Speaker 3: It's not measurable, I don't think so.
[3:54:21] Speaker 1: Do you think it's just not knowable?
[3:54:24] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[3:54:24] Speaker 2: I just.
[3:54:26] Speaker 3: If there is a creator or all powerful, all knowing
[3:54:30] Speaker 3: whatever the creator, I don't think we would be able
[3:54:37] Speaker 3: to grasp the concept of it. So I don't. I
[3:54:43] Speaker 3: don't know if you could actually pinpoint like if whether
[3:54:48] Speaker 3: or not if it's this new or God in Christian
[3:54:54] Speaker 3: sense or a law or Jesus or so as.
[3:54:59] Speaker 1: Far as you can tell, there's no way to know
[3:55:01] Speaker 1: if God is the Christian God or the Hindu God
[3:55:04] Speaker 1: or any other god system. So what what would be
[3:55:08] Speaker 1: the thing that made you choose the Christian version?
[3:55:12] Speaker 5: Oh?
[3:55:13] Speaker 1: Personally, I don't, okay.
[3:55:14] Speaker 3: I think actually the just from like a historical perspective,
[3:55:19] Speaker 3: you believe Jesus exists right like he is a person. Okay,
[3:55:25] Speaker 3: So just from a historical perspective, I think Christianity has
[3:55:28] Speaker 3: a lot of evidence to support that, even if they
[3:55:33] Speaker 3: are fairy tales, but like certain things happened, not that
[3:55:40] Speaker 3: other religions don't. But I think from an evidence based perspective,
[3:55:46] Speaker 3: I think they have the most documented. Well, I don't
[3:55:57] Speaker 3: get everybody mad at me, but I think there's more
[3:56:00] Speaker 3: evidence to support Christianity than like Islam. I haven't really
[3:56:06] Speaker 3: looked into you know, Buddhism or any other religions.
[3:56:11] Speaker 1: It's not like Islam or anything. But what about the
[3:56:18] Speaker 1: Greek gods, like the Greek pantheon. Uh, there's a lot
[3:56:24] Speaker 1: of writings about their you know, their doings.
[3:56:29] Speaker 3: Yeah, I I Well, I mean there So when I
[3:56:33] Speaker 3: say there's like evidence for Christianity or like at least
[3:56:39] Speaker 3: what's depicted in And I'm not a Bible expert by
[3:56:43] Speaker 3: any means, I won't even pretend to be, but there's
[3:56:48] Speaker 3: provable things that exist today. It's not just like a
[3:56:51] Speaker 3: written testament of this thing, whereas like Greek mythology, I
[3:56:58] Speaker 3: feel like it's probably just written down.
[3:57:03] Speaker 1: We've got written testimony of actual deities. In fact, even
[3:57:07] Speaker 1: Josephus mentions the lineage of Hercules. We have actually got
[3:57:12] Speaker 1: quite a bit of documentation for what the Greek gods
[3:57:15] Speaker 1: were up to. I think the difference is you read
[3:57:18] Speaker 1: the historians like Tacitus maybe or perhaps uh Setonius, and
[3:57:24] Speaker 1: you think that it's just mythology. But these were history writers.
[3:57:29] Speaker 1: But I would say the same for the Bible. I
[3:57:31] Speaker 1: think what Tacitus and Setonians were doing is the same
[3:57:34] Speaker 1: thing that the Gospel authors are doing. I think the right.
[3:57:38] Speaker 1: They're both attempting to do history, but both of their
[3:57:42] Speaker 1: histories include what I would call mythology.
[3:57:48] Speaker 3: I think that's fair.
[3:57:49] Speaker 1: Right, So here's what I think. I think if we're
[3:57:53] Speaker 1: going to weigh something to be truthful or not, Like
[3:57:55] Speaker 1: you've pointed to, the reason why you would land on
[3:57:57] Speaker 1: Christianity versus anything else is because of the evidence. I agree.
[3:58:01] Speaker 1: I think the reason why we would choose something is
[3:58:03] Speaker 1: because of the evidence we have in front of us.
[3:58:05] Speaker 1: And unfortunately, I think that the evidence for the Bible
[3:58:10] Speaker 1: is pretty conclusive that it's mythology. And it's not even
[3:58:14] Speaker 1: good mythology. It's got hundreds of contradictions and errors and
[3:58:18] Speaker 1: scientific you know, inaccuracies, and this to me just doesn't
[3:58:22] Speaker 1: seem like it would be fitting if the character God
[3:58:25] Speaker 1: of the Bible actually did exist, because like he says that,
[3:58:30] Speaker 1: you know, all kinds of claims about being perfect and
[3:58:33] Speaker 1: about preserving his word, but the word wasn't preserved. It
[3:58:36] Speaker 1: certainly isn't perfect.
[3:58:39] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[3:58:39] Speaker 3: I always, well, I'm curious type guy, but I'm always like,
[3:58:45] Speaker 3: maybe this word of God or whatever was told to
[3:58:51] Speaker 3: people and they're transcribing it, like as if Albert Einstein
[3:58:58] Speaker 3: is teaching me advanced physics and I'm not an expert
[3:59:02] Speaker 3: in that, so they're like, uh yeah, jotting down what
[3:59:05] Speaker 3: they can. So I mean the question it's hard to
[3:59:10] Speaker 3: make it. It's hard to disprove either of these. These
[3:59:13] Speaker 3: are just kind of like philosophical arguments.
[3:59:15] Speaker 1: So right, So, but if God was going to write
[3:59:18] Speaker 1: a book for human beings, don't you think he would
[3:59:20] Speaker 1: make it intelligible to the human beings that are reading it?
[3:59:24] Speaker 3: Yeah, and then maybe it's uh the way to make
[3:59:29] Speaker 3: it perceivable at the time. So you know that I
[3:59:36] Speaker 3: heard earlier you were there wash well, I think you
[3:59:40] Speaker 3: said there was there's actual scripture that says it's there's flat.
[3:59:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, job thirty eight of I believe.
[3:59:54] Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, so like it might be like the misunderstanding
[3:59:59] Speaker 3: if let's just pretend this all happened. It might be
[4:00:04] Speaker 3: a misunderstanding of like the transcription from some higher being
[4:00:10] Speaker 3: to the people at the time. But yeah, I don't
[4:00:15] Speaker 3: know why he would just make a book.
[4:00:17] Speaker 1: Right, because he is all powerful, Like if if communication
[4:00:20] Speaker 1: is all he needs, that he could do it. Like
[4:00:23] Speaker 1: there's nothing stopping him if he's all powerful. Yeah, right
[4:00:27] Speaker 1: now makes sense, And let me ask you. We're going
[4:00:30] Speaker 1: to do one more enquiry. Let's talk a little bit
[4:00:33] Speaker 1: about what's traditionally known as the problem of evil. We
[4:00:37] Speaker 1: do live on a planet, and you probably agree that
[4:00:40] Speaker 1: there are natural disasters here.
[4:00:41] Speaker 3: Right, correct?
[4:00:43] Speaker 2: Right?
[4:00:44] Speaker 1: Do you think that the natural disasters are executing people
[4:00:49] Speaker 1: at random or targeted.
[4:00:53] Speaker 3: Executing people? Oh? Like weather events? Are the people who
[4:00:58] Speaker 3: pass away from weather they are it's designed kind of thing.
[4:01:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, is it? Is it randomized? Or is it like
[4:01:06] Speaker 1: God is pointing and saying no, go over there?
[4:01:10] Speaker 3: To me, it's like randomized, like there's weather patterns and
[4:01:16] Speaker 3: if you're there, yeah, you're yeah, out of luck?
[4:01:21] Speaker 1: Sol Right, Okay, I don't know how to say that
[4:01:23] Speaker 1: with that kidding, I know TikTok to talk, so okay,
[4:01:27] Speaker 1: so let's go over the points that now you. If
[4:01:30] Speaker 1: you believe in God that's all good and all knowing,
[4:01:33] Speaker 1: all powerful, then it's kind of entailed in that in
[4:01:36] Speaker 1: that triomne situation that he or she does not cause
[4:01:41] Speaker 1: unnecessary suffering. There could be necessary suffering, but there can't
[4:01:44] Speaker 1: be unnecessary suffering.
[4:01:47] Speaker 3: Do we agree on that, well, I mean the premise,
[4:01:51] Speaker 3: I guess that from a definitional standpoint, I if there
[4:01:55] Speaker 3: is a creator, I don't think I like, all powerful,
[4:02:00] Speaker 3: all knowing, fine, I think only does good things? Is
[4:02:05] Speaker 3: debatable because why why do they like if there is
[4:02:11] Speaker 3: a creator, why are they limited to only doing good things?
[4:02:14] Speaker 1: Because as part of being a triamne, Trimney mean that
[4:02:17] Speaker 1: you're omni benevolent, you're all good, which means you can't
[4:02:20] Speaker 1: do bad things.
[4:02:23] Speaker 3: What if it's not your actual intervention. Let's say you're
[4:02:26] Speaker 3: a god and you just you know, made the earth. Well,
[4:02:30] Speaker 3: I mean, are you're not necessarily making a negative situation
[4:02:38] Speaker 3: with weather for the other example.
[4:02:41] Speaker 1: Well, we can get there. So let's finish. Make sure
[4:02:44] Speaker 1: we understand Triamney trimney does entail that the being that
[4:02:49] Speaker 1: has the all good property can only do good right.
[4:02:53] Speaker 3: This is the common belief of religious people I'll go.
[4:02:59] Speaker 1: With I think religious people vary a little bit on this,
[4:03:03] Speaker 1: but we can put some Bible verses to it. Like,
[4:03:05] Speaker 1: you know, the Bible does say that he's all just
[4:03:08] Speaker 1: does say that all of his ways are good. I mean,
[4:03:12] Speaker 1: you could default to God's not all good, and then
[4:03:15] Speaker 1: we just have to go somewhere else. Like I actually
[4:03:17] Speaker 1: know a Christian who says, no, God's not all good.
[4:03:20] Speaker 1: Sometimes he's an asshole.
[4:03:22] Speaker 3: Yeah, That's where I'm at and doesn't have to be Christianity.
[4:03:26] Speaker 3: But like, if there is a all powerful creator, why
[4:03:32] Speaker 3: can't they get frustrated?
[4:03:36] Speaker 1: I mean they can. It's weird to me that an
[4:03:39] Speaker 1: all knowing agent would experience the same like weird emotions
[4:03:43] Speaker 1: that would cause them to do bad things that we do.
[4:03:47] Speaker 1: Especially when the Bible says that he's loving, merciful, gracious,
[4:03:52] Speaker 1: long suffering and all those things. It just seems like
[4:03:55] Speaker 1: he would be better than us, wouldn't he.
[4:03:59] Speaker 3: I mean that's taking the Bible as an absolute truth, right.
[4:04:07] Speaker 1: No, I'm saying that if the God of the Bible existed,
[4:04:10] Speaker 1: it would seem that he should be better than the humans.
[4:04:12] Speaker 3: Right, I'd imagine so, right.
[4:04:16] Speaker 1: Psalm twenty five eight says good and upright is the Lord?
[4:04:22] Speaker 1: I would expect that means he's like always good and upright.
[4:04:24] Speaker 1: Why would we say that about God if he wasn't right?
[4:04:27] Speaker 3: He's solid?
[4:04:28] Speaker 1: Thanks? Right? So I personally I haven't met a Christian
[4:04:32] Speaker 1: more than once or twice that didn't think God was
[4:04:35] Speaker 1: all good. You can make a case using the Bible
[4:04:40] Speaker 1: that He is all good. If you don't believe God
[4:04:43] Speaker 1: is all good, then I guess I would just wonder
[4:04:45] Speaker 1: why in the hell you worship the thing anyways, because
[4:04:47] Speaker 1: if if you don't believe God is even good, why
[4:04:50] Speaker 1: do you care to worship the thing you don't know?
[4:04:53] Speaker 1: You don't even know what he wants you to be
[4:04:54] Speaker 1: there for.
[4:04:56] Speaker 3: Yeah, so I feel like the way I look at
[4:04:58] Speaker 3: it is probably all religions get it wrong. There was
[4:05:04] Speaker 3: probably some sort of creator that even just kickstarted the
[4:05:07] Speaker 3: process and all the scientific big bang devolution and blah
[4:05:12] Speaker 3: blah blah, and you know, it's hands off. But it's
[4:05:19] Speaker 3: good for human beings to have some sort of thing
[4:05:23] Speaker 3: to look up to and believe in.
[4:05:26] Speaker 1: Okay, so we'll try to circle the wagon, and then
[4:05:30] Speaker 1: we'll have to move on to another guest, because I
[4:05:32] Speaker 1: got time for ward more. But so the point that
[4:05:36] Speaker 1: I'm getting at is the fact that there are earthquakes, hurricanes, volcanoes,
[4:05:40] Speaker 1: and other things on the planet. Seems to be more
[4:05:44] Speaker 1: parsimonious with the idea that we're living in a planet
[4:05:48] Speaker 1: of chaos, not that a loving God created us, because
[4:05:51] Speaker 1: I can't see why loving God would randomly execute one
[4:05:55] Speaker 1: hundred thousand people a year in natural disasters.
[4:06:04] Speaker 3: Did you have a question in there?
[4:06:06] Speaker 1: No, it's not a question, is more of a statement
[4:06:08] Speaker 1: of my position, like.
[4:06:10] Speaker 2: Why would if you?
[4:06:12] Speaker 3: If you if you think in you worship let's say
[4:06:16] Speaker 3: God from a Christian perspective, and one of the things
[4:06:19] Speaker 3: that's commonly believed is that there he should be whatever
[4:06:24] Speaker 3: is benevolent always, then yeah, I feel like it's hard
[4:06:29] Speaker 3: to argue that position. And but if you think of
[4:06:34] Speaker 3: it as.
[4:06:34] Speaker 35: Like a creation for the opportunity to be good, or
[4:06:42] Speaker 35: like productivity or whatever in God's image. I don't know
[4:06:48] Speaker 35: what people normally say, but I almost feel like they
[4:06:53] Speaker 35: the creator made an environment and things go as they may.
[4:07:00] Speaker 1: If God is not good, why worship them? Why care
[4:07:04] Speaker 1: about them?
[4:07:07] Speaker 3: I think it's healthy for humans too have something to
[4:07:14] Speaker 3: look forward.
[4:07:14] Speaker 1: To, even if it's not good Like that sounds like
[4:07:16] Speaker 1: Stockholm syndrome. It's like I'm looking forward to going to
[4:07:19] Speaker 1: home to my abusive husband.
[4:07:23] Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I think you can worship the good
[4:07:27] Speaker 3: parts of you know, Like I feel like you can
[4:07:34] Speaker 3: admire even people from history like Thomas Jefferson. Right, he
[4:07:38] Speaker 3: had slaves. It was common at the time. It's a
[4:07:42] Speaker 3: terrible practice today, but it was common at the time,
[4:07:44] Speaker 3: and he did tons of good things for the United
[4:07:47] Speaker 3: States and that's why we're here today. So he's not perfect.
[4:07:51] Speaker 3: But like you can admire Thomas Jefferson or Christopher Columbus
[4:07:56] Speaker 3: or whatever.
[4:07:57] Speaker 1: But I wouldn't worship them like I wouldn't, you know
[4:08:00] Speaker 1: what I mean?
[4:08:01] Speaker 3: Like, I just think having a belief in like a
[4:08:06] Speaker 3: higher power is healthy for humans.
[4:08:09] Speaker 1: Sure, but what if the higher power is an asshole?
[4:08:14] Speaker 3: Well, better pray to him so it doesn't kill you.
[4:08:17] Speaker 1: What if the I right, yo, what if they what
[4:08:19] Speaker 1: the higher power is more like a Satanic figure that
[4:08:22] Speaker 1: we're just like his little plate toys and he's down
[4:08:25] Speaker 1: here like a kid in the sand.
[4:08:28] Speaker 3: Right, you want to be on his good side though?
[4:08:31] Speaker 1: Right, No, I wouldn't. I'd give him the finger. That's
[4:08:35] Speaker 1: just me.
[4:08:37] Speaker 3: But it's been a pleasure, absolutely plight.
[4:08:40] Speaker 1: Jared, thanks for talking to me, Thanks for being polite.
[4:08:42] Speaker 1: You were you were a treat. Sure's best. Leven your
[4:08:45] Speaker 1: journey nice, he's a nice guy. Let me grab a
[4:08:49] Speaker 1: couple of super chats. We'll get our next guest here.
[4:08:51] Speaker 1: Johannes Bram's good to see you this morning, says, Imagine,
[4:08:54] Speaker 1: well it's not morning anymore. Imagine inventing and creating Lego,
[4:08:59] Speaker 1: then punish your employees for not stacking them the way
[4:09:02] Speaker 1: that's impossible. Still more rational than yahweh. Actually, yeah, that's
[4:09:06] Speaker 1: a very good example. Imagine inventing all of the legos
[4:09:09] Speaker 1: and then saying you must assemble them in a way
[4:09:11] Speaker 1: that's not even possible, and then when you can't do it,
[4:09:13] Speaker 1: I will punish you with hell fire. It's a really
[4:09:16] Speaker 1: good analogy. Josh Barbara says, I'm gonna be honest with you.
[4:09:20] Speaker 1: I'm done dumb and yeah that prior guest, not that
[4:09:24] Speaker 1: I guess. We just talked to you. Yeah, that was fun.
[4:09:26] Speaker 1: That was fun, and Morpheus, my friend. Great to hear
[4:09:29] Speaker 1: from me. Thank you for the super chat. Buddy says,
[4:09:32] Speaker 1: when was hell created? If made before humans, then God
[4:09:34] Speaker 1: created an environment he intended to fill with inhabitants before
[4:09:39] Speaker 1: they were created evil MF I agree now. According to
[4:09:44] Speaker 1: Matthew Chapter twenty five, it says that Hell was created
[4:09:46] Speaker 1: for the devil and his angels, presumably when they sinned.
[4:09:51] Speaker 1: But like, none of that makes sense because even if
[4:09:54] Speaker 1: it was created when the angel sinned, God knew when
[4:09:58] Speaker 1: he created that humans would go there. So to me,
[4:10:01] Speaker 1: I don't know if it matters when, but regardless, yeah,
[4:10:04] Speaker 1: it's horrible that any human would be sent there. Carnage
[4:10:07] Speaker 1: is Sado, my friend, welcome back. Thank you for the superchest.
[4:10:10] Speaker 1: It says the sun worshipers worshippers are out in full
[4:10:12] Speaker 1: force this week. I know, I don't know what it
[4:10:15] Speaker 1: is because it's the middle of the summer. I'm gonna
[4:10:18] Speaker 1: need to overhaul my cosmic WU spreadsheet with more quantum entropy.
[4:10:22] Speaker 1: That's what when you get your spreadsheet updated, Carnage, send
[4:10:27] Speaker 1: send me a copy. I'll look over it and we'll
[4:10:29] Speaker 1: run it by all of our quantum WU experts out here.
[4:10:33] Speaker 1: And Luke, thank you for the supertest. Says the full
[4:10:35] Speaker 1: moon doesn't make any people crazy, but crazy people think
[4:10:39] Speaker 1: it does, so maybe a psychosomatic sort of thing, Luke,
[4:10:42] Speaker 1: that's my feeling. I think that's the case for a
[4:10:44] Speaker 1: lot of things. I think a lot of things are
[4:10:47] Speaker 1: psychosomatic that they materialize because we believe they're going to materialize.
[4:10:52] Speaker 1: And people says petition for a toasty emoji on the discord, Shit, okay,
[4:10:57] Speaker 1: we can do that. We can do a toasty emoji
[4:10:59] Speaker 1: all the way around on the discord, on TikTok on YouTube,
[4:11:04] Speaker 1: Hi Li says, I don't need to wait for years.
[4:11:07] Speaker 1: I worship Doug now. Hell yeah, the rocket of ages.
[4:11:09] Speaker 1: He's right in front of you. You don't have to
[4:11:11] Speaker 1: die and know that Doug is real. Doug is real.
[4:11:14] Speaker 1: He's in front of your face. Friends, you don't have
[4:11:16] Speaker 1: to question Doug. And a cat with Bola thank you
[4:11:21] Speaker 1: for the supertests. I'm glad I found another voice of reason.
[4:11:23] Speaker 1: Keep it up well. Thank you so much. Cat with
[4:11:25] Speaker 1: a Bola, and I hope that you get well. I
[4:11:27] Speaker 1: heard that abola is pretty bad and if I had
[4:11:31] Speaker 1: to guess, cats aren't fond of it. And her name
[4:11:34] Speaker 1: is Lola says it's my birthday today, Well, happy fucking birthday.
[4:11:38] Speaker 1: This is the first one after deconstructing, which makes it
[4:11:41] Speaker 1: one of the best. Thank you for helping me complete
[4:11:44] Speaker 1: that journey. Well, big W to you for completing the journey.
[4:11:48] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for allowing us to help. And
[4:11:50] Speaker 1: happy birthday to you big W for another year. Russell,
[4:11:55] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the supertestis has been watching
[4:11:57] Speaker 1: your broadcast for six weeks now, I'm a dick to it.
[4:12:00] Speaker 1: And Noah's Arc have floodlights? Did know as arc have floodlights?
[4:12:05] Speaker 1: So I got so many questions about Noah's Ark as
[4:12:07] Speaker 1: an engineer. Where did they shovel all the pooh? How
[4:12:10] Speaker 1: did they collect all the water for the animals? What
[4:12:13] Speaker 1: water were they drinking because it didn't rain for the
[4:12:16] Speaker 1: whole three hundred and seventy four years that they were there,
[4:12:18] Speaker 1: so they had to collect the water and store it somewhere.
[4:12:22] Speaker 1: What kind of food was on the arc, because it
[4:12:24] Speaker 1: certainly would have spoiled it was very specific food. Kualas
[4:12:27] Speaker 1: need specific food. Lions have to eat raw meat. I mean,
[4:12:30] Speaker 1: there's so much shit that's got to go on the
[4:12:32] Speaker 1: Arc that they didn't make provision for. It's almost like
[4:12:34] Speaker 1: the story was made up. Morphius coming in again, Thank
[4:12:38] Speaker 1: you Morphius. If Moses is not a historical figure. Then
[4:12:41] Speaker 1: the story of the Ten Commandments involving Moses on the
[4:12:43] Speaker 1: Mount sign I cannot be regarded it as historically real.
[4:12:47] Speaker 1: And I couldn't agree more. And add this, mister Morpheus.
[4:12:51] Speaker 1: If in fact that story didn't happen, then the New
[4:12:54] Speaker 1: Testament is false too, because the New Testament is built
[4:12:57] Speaker 1: on the premise that the story is real. LUCKX, my friend,
[4:13:00] Speaker 1: welcome back. Thank you for the ten that superjest says, Jay,
[4:13:03] Speaker 1: you are awesome. Nope, sorry I read that wrong. Jay.
[4:13:06] Speaker 1: You are aware of the Kioki, I'm not. It's the
[4:13:11] Speaker 1: oldest known library work in Japanese history, and it serves
[4:13:15] Speaker 1: as both an early historical document for the basis of
[4:13:17] Speaker 1: Shinto mythology and religious practice. Well, Flux, this is good information.
[4:13:22] Speaker 1: I'll tell you upfront. I don't know anything about Japanese religion.
[4:13:26] Speaker 1: I would learn love to learn more. If you've got
[4:13:29] Speaker 1: reading reading recommendations like books that clearly explain what they believe,
[4:13:35] Speaker 1: send them. Let me know, discord me the names of
[4:13:38] Speaker 1: the books. I'll get them and at list. My friend says,
[4:13:41] Speaker 1: I was so happy to finish a hike and see
[4:13:42] Speaker 1: that you were live, then got home to find that
[4:13:45] Speaker 1: my rock card for Doug shirt arrived. Hell yeah, rock
[4:13:48] Speaker 1: card for Doug. If you want Doug merch, it's starting
[4:13:50] Speaker 1: to populate in the merch shop under the YouTube stream
[4:13:54] Speaker 1: Get your Doug Merch and all the proceeds the go
[4:13:58] Speaker 1: to our Discord Community Fund. In fact, I should be
[4:14:03] Speaker 1: getting the first payout pretty soon. Flux coming in again.
[4:14:07] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the ton super chout. Oh also,
[4:14:10] Speaker 1: let me know when you're ready for me to buy
[4:14:12] Speaker 1: the sequel on bullshit? I didn't there's a sequel. What
[4:14:16] Speaker 1: the fuck there's a sequel. I'll let you know, Flux.
[4:14:20] Speaker 1: I had no idea there was a sequel, but I
[4:14:22] Speaker 1: will finish the first before we get onto the sequel.
[4:14:26] Speaker 1: All right, let me grab our next guest. It looks
[4:14:30] Speaker 1: like it's gonna be Bean. He's been waiting the longest.
[4:14:34] Speaker 1: We'll get Bean in the box. How you doing, Bean?
[4:14:40] Speaker 5: Bean?
[4:14:42] Speaker 1: Bean might not be with us anymore?
[4:14:47] Speaker 5: All right?
[4:14:48] Speaker 1: Sorry, Bean, got to move on to the next guest.
[4:14:51] Speaker 1: Next in line was Resident Perry Nihilist. I didn't get
[4:15:01] Speaker 1: that one right. Sorry. Let me unmute him. Resident. How
[4:15:04] Speaker 1: you doing?
[4:15:06] Speaker 2: Hey? What's up? Distance?
[4:15:08] Speaker 1: Not too much? How you doing? Is it? A resident?
[4:15:10] Speaker 4: Is what?
[4:15:11] Speaker 2: You want to be called, it's a perennialist.
[4:15:14] Speaker 1: Perennialists. Okay, sorry, the letters are all squashed together on
[4:15:17] Speaker 1: my screen. I can really read it.
[4:15:20] Speaker 2: No, that's fine. So are you familiar with perennialism.
[4:15:24] Speaker 1: I know about parennalism in terms of like the floral world.
[4:15:29] Speaker 2: No, I'm referring to their perennial philosophy.
[4:15:32] Speaker 13: No.
[4:15:35] Speaker 36: I had a question, if you don't mind me asking,
[4:15:38] Speaker 36: it's a Graham Hancock posed this to Richard Dawkins once.
[4:15:43] Speaker 36: He said, many traditional hunter gatherer cultures believe that there
[4:15:46] Speaker 36: are other reality, spirit worlds, and so on and so forth,
[4:15:50] Speaker 36: and concrete techniques such as the use of psychoactive plants
[4:15:53] Speaker 36: to access them, for example, the visionary brew ayahuasca, used
[4:15:57] Speaker 36: for thousands of years by indigenous cultures throughout the Amazon Basin.
[4:16:01] Speaker 36: As an atheist, have you ever seriously engaged such techniques
[4:16:04] Speaker 36: to have firsthand experience of what they're talking about, even
[4:16:07] Speaker 36: to challenge your own concept of what is real? If not,
[4:16:10] Speaker 36: would you ever consider doing so? And when would you
[4:16:12] Speaker 36: be ready to begin? If you would not consider doing so,
[4:16:16] Speaker 36: please explain why not?
[4:16:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I've never done any of those substances.
[4:16:21] Speaker 1: I certainly would be willing to do a controlled situation
[4:16:26] Speaker 1: where the substances were administered professionally. But I mean, in
[4:16:31] Speaker 1: my head, I just know that it's a hallucination, but
[4:16:35] Speaker 1: I'm certainly willing to find out.
[4:16:37] Speaker 36: Well, you know, I have a link for Johns Hopkins
[4:16:41] Speaker 36: for people to sign up over there to be administered
[4:16:46] Speaker 36: what they you know, they give a high dose of
[4:16:48] Speaker 36: plicide and contained in a pill, and you're supervised by
[4:16:51] Speaker 36: medical professionals. I would gladly leave you that link in
[4:16:55] Speaker 36: your comments section after the stream. But one thing I
[4:16:58] Speaker 36: wanted to also ask, are you familiar with the studies
[4:17:01] Speaker 36: out of Johns Hopkins involving psilocybin induced mystical experience?
[4:17:05] Speaker 1: So I don't know specifically about what happened that John Hopkins,
[4:17:08] Speaker 1: but I have read other studies that have been at
[4:17:11] Speaker 1: universities where they've used psychoactive substances to trigger out of
[4:17:16] Speaker 1: body experiences, and all of the ones I've read so
[4:17:20] Speaker 1: far demonstrate that people only think they're having out of
[4:17:22] Speaker 1: body experiences. They can't actually provide the evidence that they
[4:17:27] Speaker 1: did leave their body.
[4:17:29] Speaker 36: Well, I'm referring specifically to psilocybin induced mystical experience. It's
[4:17:34] Speaker 36: a term that William James really originally laid down in
[4:17:37] Speaker 36: his book The Varieties of Religious Experience. And they've shown
[4:17:41] Speaker 36: that Johns Hopkins that when they have atheists volunteers, you know,
[4:17:47] Speaker 36: they give them a single high dose and after this
[4:17:50] Speaker 36: event they're no longer able to identify with as atheists.
[4:17:54] Speaker 2: And you've never heard of that research.
[4:17:57] Speaker 1: I mean, I specifically know a person on TikTok who
[4:18:01] Speaker 1: did exactly what you're talking about and is still an atheist.
[4:18:05] Speaker 36: Well, I mean, like I would question their you know,
[4:18:09] Speaker 36: the method they use because like, like as I mentioned,
[4:18:12] Speaker 36: you know, they use a single high dose at Johns
[4:18:15] Speaker 36: Hopkins with the equivalent of what turns me kind of
[4:18:17] Speaker 36: called a heroic dose.
[4:18:20] Speaker 2: And you know, so you said.
[4:18:22] Speaker 36: You'd be interested in possibly signing up at Johns Hopkins
[4:18:25] Speaker 36: to try it out yourself.
[4:18:27] Speaker 1: Probably not. It's like a twelve hour drive from where
[4:18:30] Speaker 1: I live.
[4:18:33] Speaker 36: Well, if I can find somewhere closer with fate, are you.
[4:18:36] Speaker 1: In, Well, DM me, we'll hook it up offline. I'm
[4:18:39] Speaker 1: not going to give my rightabouts.
[4:18:41] Speaker 36: Because I really think, you know, I I think if
[4:18:45] Speaker 36: you really wanted to challenge your atheism, that's how you
[4:18:47] Speaker 36: would do it.
[4:18:48] Speaker 2: You know, you wouldn't.
[4:18:50] Speaker 36: You wouldn't speak to low hanging fruits fists on TikTok
[4:18:54] Speaker 36: and YouTube. That's definitely not how you would go about it.
[4:18:58] Speaker 1: Are you, like?
[4:19:00] Speaker 2: I know it makes you money.
[4:19:02] Speaker 1: But you know, are you low hanging fruit?
[4:19:05] Speaker 2: No? I wouldn't say.
[4:19:06] Speaker 36: So That's why I'm offering because there's a lot of
[4:19:09] Speaker 36: neuroscientific studies that back what I'm talking about.
[4:19:12] Speaker 2: So it's not something you could really argue against.
[4:19:15] Speaker 1: Actually think it is, because there are people who do
[4:19:19] Speaker 1: the things you're referring to and they don't deconvert, and
[4:19:22] Speaker 1: we have no evidence.
[4:19:23] Speaker 2: But you're not referring to a.
[4:19:26] Speaker 1: Let me go it, okay, So the only evidence that
[4:19:29] Speaker 1: it points to is that people are having a neurological experience.
[4:19:32] Speaker 1: You can't prove that any of these experiences where somebody
[4:19:36] Speaker 1: is leaving their body and all going into like an
[4:19:39] Speaker 1: alternate universe or experiencing something from a different universe. People
[4:19:43] Speaker 1: only think that they are.
[4:19:45] Speaker 36: No, that's not what I'm saying, though. I think you're
[4:19:48] Speaker 36: kind of conflating the outer body with this. No when
[4:19:52] Speaker 36: when when they say when? These professionals say mystical experience.
[4:19:56] Speaker 36: They mean specifically the types of experiences that mystics have
[4:20:00] Speaker 36: reported throughout the ages. So you know, they relate this
[4:20:05] Speaker 36: to what they call the perennial philosophy. That's why I
[4:20:08] Speaker 36: mentioned it, and that you know, when they look at
[4:20:11] Speaker 36: a report of mystics referring to let's say theoria or
[4:20:16] Speaker 36: the direct revelation of the Holy Spirit, or in Buddhism
[4:20:19] Speaker 36: when they speak of nirvana Hinduism, Samadi or fanah in Islam.
[4:20:25] Speaker 36: These are all various ways to reference that phenomenon in consciousness,
[4:20:29] Speaker 36: which professional neuroscientists today refer to as mystical experience specifically,
[4:20:34] Speaker 36: and it's a term you know, that they've laid down
[4:20:36] Speaker 36: quite concretely over decades of research.
[4:20:40] Speaker 2: So I you know, it doesn't the thing.
[4:20:42] Speaker 1: What is a mystical experience.
[4:20:46] Speaker 36: In the research, It's defined by six characteristics that they've
[4:20:50] Speaker 36: developed over decades of research, as I've mentioned, And of
[4:20:55] Speaker 36: a volunteer who meets criteria in each one of these
[4:20:59] Speaker 36: six character uristics, will we have said to have this
[4:21:02] Speaker 36: phenomenon occur?
[4:21:03] Speaker 1: Give you the characteristics?
[4:21:06] Speaker 2: Sure.
[4:21:07] Speaker 36: The primary characteristic is unity, interconnective and things. So they
[4:21:14] Speaker 36: refer to this kind of like as a non dual experience,
[4:21:17] Speaker 36: meaning that the subject and object that comming that you
[4:21:21] Speaker 36: experience in your everyday waking consciousness collapses. So like you
[4:21:25] Speaker 36: have the impression that you're you know, a bodily entity
[4:21:29] Speaker 36: and your romanant environment you're looking down at a computer
[4:21:31] Speaker 36: or what have you. That threshold between you and the
[4:21:35] Speaker 36: rest of the environment collapse. There is no perceived boundary
[4:21:39] Speaker 36: between the two, the dichotomies.
[4:21:43] Speaker 1: So you feel like you stop existing.
[4:21:46] Speaker 36: Well you You often hear mystics say all is one
[4:21:50] Speaker 36: you know, and they'll put it that way, but they're
[4:21:52] Speaker 36: referring to a collapse between.
[4:21:54] Speaker 1: This subject object and a feeling.
[4:21:56] Speaker 36: Right, it's a I mean, I wouldn't kind of like
[4:22:00] Speaker 36: reduce it to a feeling. It's more of like a
[4:22:02] Speaker 36: complete transformation of whe's consciousness.
[4:22:05] Speaker 1: Sounds like a feeling to me.
[4:22:07] Speaker 36: Well, I mean, if you want to put it that way,
[4:22:08] Speaker 36: I think it's you know, consciousness as you ordinarily perceive
[4:22:12] Speaker 36: it is completely transformed.
[4:22:16] Speaker 14: Have you done it?
[4:22:16] Speaker 36: And it's accompanied by sacredness or reverence? You know, people
[4:22:21] Speaker 36: feel that there have you done engaging them?
[4:22:24] Speaker 2: I'm sorry?
[4:22:24] Speaker 1: Have you done it?
[4:22:27] Speaker 2: Yes? That's why I'm so passionate about it.
[4:22:29] Speaker 1: Okay, so why are you having like a weird time
[4:22:33] Speaker 1: of explaining it if you've done it.
[4:22:35] Speaker 36: Like well, I'm referring to how it's described in the
[4:22:38] Speaker 36: actual neuroscientific research.
[4:22:40] Speaker 2: That way, if you wanted to look it up, you
[4:22:41] Speaker 2: can confirm this.
[4:22:42] Speaker 1: Sure, Listen, I believe that you took some drugs and
[4:22:45] Speaker 1: you had an experience, I would need actual evidence that
[4:22:48] Speaker 1: the experience was anything that wasn't just your brain hallucinating.
[4:22:53] Speaker 36: Well, I mean, it's you know, it's not specific to
[4:22:57] Speaker 36: the usage of psychedelics. You know, people experience insists in
[4:23:00] Speaker 36: deep states of meditation. It's speculated to occur in the ND.
[4:23:05] Speaker 36: In some cases it occurs spontaneously, so it can come
[4:23:09] Speaker 36: about in myriads of ways. So you know, it's not
[4:23:13] Speaker 36: something that could be kind of reduced to the psychedelic.
[4:23:16] Speaker 36: The psychedelic acts more like a catalyst.
[4:23:20] Speaker 2: Well, listen, I.
[4:23:21] Speaker 1: Don't think this is a conversation anyone is here to
[4:23:25] Speaker 1: listen to. But if you if you want to get
[4:23:28] Speaker 1: me drugged up, you send me the information. We'll we'll
[4:23:31] Speaker 1: figure it out.
[4:23:32] Speaker 2: Fair enough, I'll that's fair enough for.
[4:23:35] Speaker 1: Me, all right, I'll go in. Yeah, you too, Daniel
[4:23:41] Speaker 1: already did the d MT and cybercilla and stuff. Robert says,
[4:23:47] Speaker 1: my atheism was born from hallucinogens. Yeah, that actually is
[4:23:51] Speaker 1: the case. I've met a couple of people that were
[4:23:53] Speaker 1: firm believers in a religion and then they did hallucinogens
[4:23:55] Speaker 1: and then they're like, oh, oh maybe. Now Barber is
[4:24:00] Speaker 1: laying in and says it's toasty in Mortal Kombat. I
[4:24:03] Speaker 1: agree with you. I think it is toasty. Booge says,
[4:24:06] Speaker 1: what did the trumpy get their What did the Trumpie
[4:24:10] Speaker 1: get on their s A T's barbecue sauce? I don't know.
[4:24:14] Speaker 1: I don't understand the joke. What did the trumpy get
[4:24:17] Speaker 1: on there? What's a trumpy?
[4:24:18] Speaker 2: Am?
[4:24:18] Speaker 11: I am?
[4:24:19] Speaker 1: Mike confused? What does anyone know what a trumpy is?
[4:24:23] Speaker 5: What's a trumpy?
[4:24:28] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[4:24:28] Speaker 1: I google this. What is a trumpy? A trumpy is
[4:24:31] Speaker 1: a person who supports Donald Trump? According to the Internet.
[4:24:34] Speaker 1: I don't get it, buddy. I appreciate the super chat,
[4:24:37] Speaker 1: but I don't understand it. My friend Anna Brown says,
[4:24:40] Speaker 1: speaking of AI, did you see the horrors that groc
[4:24:43] Speaker 1: was spewing this week? Oh my god? Yeah? Supporting Hitler
[4:24:46] Speaker 1: as crazy? I mean, look who made it. The guy's
[4:24:50] Speaker 1: doing literally salutes to Hitler. Obviously his AI is going
[4:24:54] Speaker 1: to be biased, and Noah's lines, my friend, great to
[4:24:59] Speaker 1: see you think, thank you for the supertests. Is what
[4:25:01] Speaker 1: are some references that would be funny as a bumper sticker?
[4:25:04] Speaker 1: I want to counter the John three sixteen or the
[4:25:07] Speaker 1: Roman eight twenty eight. I love like Ezekiel Ezekiel twenty
[4:25:14] Speaker 1: three twenty. I think that's a great one. Let me
[4:25:17] Speaker 1: grab it. In fact, we can't even grab verse nineteen
[4:25:27] Speaker 1: and include that here, and shit, probably get my life
[4:25:31] Speaker 1: taken down by TikTok, but we'll do it anyways. Ezekiel
[4:25:33] Speaker 1: twenty three says, yet she increased her prostitutions, remembering the
[4:25:39] Speaker 1: days of her youth, when she prostituted herself in the
[4:25:42] Speaker 1: land of Egypt and lusted after her paramours there, whose
[4:25:45] Speaker 1: members were like those of donkeys and whose emissions were
[4:25:48] Speaker 1: like that of stallions. I think that's a good way
[4:25:52] Speaker 1: to do it. I mean, this is funny that Ezekiel's
[4:25:55] Speaker 1: writing this, because he's he's also implying that the other god.
[4:26:00] Speaker 1: This is a metaphor for the Israels worshiping other gods.
[4:26:03] Speaker 1: He's implying that the other gods are more powerful than
[4:26:05] Speaker 1: the yahweh that like they've got the schlongs like donkeys
[4:26:09] Speaker 1: and seamen like horses. That's a crazy thing to say
[4:26:12] Speaker 1: about gods that you didn't think existed. Night Man Commins said,
[4:26:16] Speaker 1: I had a fair share, have had my fair share
[4:26:19] Speaker 1: of funny mushrooms and other psychoactives in college and through
[4:26:23] Speaker 1: my twenties. Number once questioned my atheism. I know, all right,
[4:26:27] Speaker 1: these guys have a mystical experience, and now they're convinced
[4:26:30] Speaker 1: that everyone who does what they're gonna do is going
[4:26:33] Speaker 1: to feel the same way after it's embarrassing. Robert comes again.
[4:26:36] Speaker 1: Oh sorry, we just read that. Thank you, though, Jeane,
[4:26:38] Speaker 1: thank you for the super Chat. He wants your kidneys,
[4:26:41] Speaker 1: don't do it. Fuck You might be right. This is
[4:26:44] Speaker 1: what happened in China. They take you in and take
[4:26:46] Speaker 1: your kidneys and just a couple more Superchat friends. Joshua says,
[4:26:50] Speaker 1: somber note warning, I really feel for these believers as
[4:26:53] Speaker 1: I was entrenched. I know it's funny to cook, but
[4:26:56] Speaker 1: scary in instilled worldviews as correct life guys, So you're
[4:27:01] Speaker 1: not wrong. I was too a lot of us were.
[4:27:03] Speaker 1: We were once in buried in the mayre of these religions,
[4:27:06] Speaker 1: and it is it's hard to come out. It's difficult
[4:27:09] Speaker 1: to come out. It's difficult to deconstruct, and like sometimes
[4:27:14] Speaker 1: you have to be a little gentle when I get
[4:27:16] Speaker 1: good people up here, I try to. Mattie says, I
[4:27:19] Speaker 1: can't lie. You're the truth. I'm making you a member
[4:27:22] Speaker 1: of the God Killers Goat status. Well shit, Maddie. I
[4:27:24] Speaker 1: appreciate that I've never heard of this group, but I'm
[4:27:27] Speaker 1: proud to be a part of it and hiro coming again.
[4:27:31] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the six sixty six. According
[4:27:33] Speaker 1: to Pat benattar hell is for children. I listen, I
[4:27:36] Speaker 1: know who Pat Benatar is. I didn't know that there
[4:27:40] Speaker 1: was anything related to health being for children in Pat
[4:27:43] Speaker 1: Benatar's work. Now I need to know somebody sent me
[4:27:46] Speaker 1: a link to that song on the discord or the
[4:27:49] Speaker 1: I mean, anything that he did the ungooglable man. Thank
[4:27:54] Speaker 1: you for returning to the stream. I haven't seen you
[4:27:55] Speaker 1: since I think yesterday says, can Doug create a god
[4:27:59] Speaker 1: so imagining he himself cannot believe in it? Loving the
[4:28:03] Speaker 1: day's streams. I don't know if that's the case. I
[4:28:05] Speaker 1: can tell you that I can ask Doug as a
[4:28:07] Speaker 1: prophet of Doug, but I don't know the answer. But
[4:28:09] Speaker 1: I understand the logical paradox that you're putting me in,
[4:28:12] Speaker 1: and I get it.
[4:28:14] Speaker 5: You have to do it.
[4:28:15] Speaker 1: Also, Roscoe, thank you for the ten dollars. Super chest
[4:28:18] Speaker 1: says they cannot even come up with a coherent definition
[4:28:21] Speaker 1: of nothing, So why is it something verse any other
[4:28:24] Speaker 1: nonsense concept you dreamt up that never existed? Why something
[4:28:28] Speaker 1: rather than unicorn farts? So, Roscoe, that's a very good point,
[4:28:31] Speaker 1: and we do bring that up from time to time,
[4:28:33] Speaker 1: like if there is something that caused anything to be,
[4:28:38] Speaker 1: why are we jumping to a god written in a book?
[4:28:40] Speaker 1: Why don't we just say, Lisa the Rainbow Draft did it?
[4:28:44] Speaker 1: Or Doug the Rock did it? Or Magic Pixies did it?
[4:28:48] Speaker 1: Our last super chat, I'll get our last guest, Kyle
[4:28:50] Speaker 1: my friend, thank you so so much for the fifty
[4:28:51] Speaker 1: dollars super chat. That's huge, my friend. That in my opinion,
[4:28:55] Speaker 1: anyone who uses these substances, even though I had the
[4:28:58] Speaker 1: experience I had, the substances are going to affect your brain.
[4:29:02] Speaker 1: That's why I would advocate if you try to do
[4:29:04] Speaker 1: astro projection. Do not use any form of substance, use
[4:29:08] Speaker 1: natural means. That's good advice, Kyle, and I'd love to
[4:29:11] Speaker 1: hear more about your experience on these substances because I
[4:29:14] Speaker 1: think you've you've done some. All right with that, we're
[4:29:17] Speaker 1: going to get our last guest in here. He's been
[4:29:19] Speaker 1: waiting for quite a while, and I'm going to try
[4:29:21] Speaker 1: to pronounce the name correctly. It looks like you've RAJ.
[4:29:27] Speaker 9: Is it?
[4:29:27] Speaker 1: You've? Can I call you? You've right now? Your microphones muted?
[4:29:33] Speaker 1: You've there? You go Nope, No, it's still muted. You
[4:29:38] Speaker 1: can you hear me? You're on the screen right now.
[4:29:44] Speaker 1: I see you've got a MacBook air. I don't know
[4:29:47] Speaker 1: if your microphone's working. You have, buddy, You're you're live,
[4:29:52] Speaker 1: You're on the thing, You're you're, you're in it. I
[4:29:58] Speaker 1: don't think as the earphones are work and welcome in.
[4:30:04] Speaker 13: You've, Yes, you can call me?
[4:30:08] Speaker 2: You can.
[4:30:11] Speaker 1: Very good. You look like you look like you're over eighteen.
[4:30:15] Speaker 1: So I'm not going to ask you that. What what
[4:30:18] Speaker 1: God do you believe in?
[4:30:24] Speaker 5: Yep?
[4:30:25] Speaker 2: What is it? Bad?
[4:30:28] Speaker 1: Can you hear me?
[4:30:32] Speaker 13: Okay, I'm getting some lag over here.
[4:30:34] Speaker 1: I think it is.
[4:30:35] Speaker 13: Yeah, okay, nobody's uh can you hear me right now?
[4:30:41] Speaker 1: I can hear you. I just think it's leggy. Yes,
[4:30:46] Speaker 1: maybe if you turn your video off, the leg will
[4:30:49] Speaker 1: be lessened.
[4:30:51] Speaker 13: Okay, yes, I hope you can see me now.
[4:30:54] Speaker 1: I can see you right now, Greed.
[4:30:57] Speaker 3: So what's up?
[4:30:58] Speaker 5: Uh?
[4:30:58] Speaker 1: So? Are you a believer in some kind of a
[4:31:02] Speaker 1: higher power?
[4:31:05] Speaker 37: I don't want to actually uh tell you right now,
[4:31:08] Speaker 37: like what do I believe in? Basically because you have
[4:31:11] Speaker 37: a thing that your God is, God is imaginary. So
[4:31:15] Speaker 37: first of all, I like I would like to have
[4:31:17] Speaker 37: some discussions.
[4:31:18] Speaker 1: So if you're cool with it, right, but I need
[4:31:21] Speaker 1: to know who your God is?
[4:31:24] Speaker 37: Yes, first, okay. Basically, like a few years back, I
[4:31:30] Speaker 37: uh you know, I reverted back to Islam. Uh Basically
[4:31:33] Speaker 37: I was Hindu before that. Okay, yes, now practice in Islam.
[4:31:42] Speaker 37: Uh So, I was very curious about you because I, uh, whenever,
[4:31:47] Speaker 37: whenever I was scrolling like the shots on YouTube, and
[4:31:50] Speaker 37: you were getting into my shots every every day every
[4:31:54] Speaker 37: day because I work in US time zones.
[4:31:57] Speaker 13: I'm in India right now, so that's why.
[4:32:01] Speaker 37: So I used I go on to chat shots and
[4:32:05] Speaker 37: I saw you. I had thought a couple of times
[4:32:08] Speaker 37: to get onto the chat and talk to you, but
[4:32:10] Speaker 37: I was not sure. And I'm telling you right now
[4:32:14] Speaker 37: that I'm not that much educated. But still I want
[4:32:17] Speaker 37: to know your beliefs because you are telling that your
[4:32:20] Speaker 37: God is imaginary, and I would like to know, like
[4:32:25] Speaker 37: if I want to prove you wrong, what are your credentials? Like,
[4:32:30] Speaker 37: not your credentials, but what do you think that it
[4:32:33] Speaker 37: will convince you to believe.
[4:32:36] Speaker 2: In a god?
[4:32:37] Speaker 1: Well, I think it's been that which God. For example,
[4:32:40] Speaker 1: if it was the Bible God, I would expect that
[4:32:42] Speaker 1: all the prophecies actually come true, and they don't, so
[4:32:46] Speaker 1: it can't be that God. I also want the God
[4:32:49] Speaker 1: to not be like wrong on science. And so when
[4:32:54] Speaker 1: we look at like God of the Qoran, he doesn't
[4:32:57] Speaker 1: understand that women are equal to men, does it know
[4:33:00] Speaker 1: or sperm comes from? Doesn't know embryology, So it seems
[4:33:04] Speaker 1: like that's weird that the creator of all things doesn't
[4:33:07] Speaker 1: know how embryos develop. The God of Hinduism, I can't
[4:33:11] Speaker 1: say I know a lot about the Hindu gods. I
[4:33:13] Speaker 1: know there are many of them, so that's not something
[4:33:16] Speaker 1: that I really have a lot of knowledge about But
[4:33:20] Speaker 1: I do know a few Hindus, and my understanding with
[4:33:25] Speaker 1: most Hindus is that I've never seen a Hindu come
[4:33:28] Speaker 1: up and try to prove their religion to be true.
[4:33:30] Speaker 1: I think most of them are willing to accept that
[4:33:32] Speaker 1: it's on faith.
[4:33:35] Speaker 37: Yes, Basically, what I would say is when I was
[4:33:38] Speaker 37: practicing in Hinduism, it's not generally like Christians. And it's like,
[4:33:43] Speaker 37: you know, Muslims, because you guys read your books right,
[4:33:47] Speaker 37: like the Quran and the Bible. You constantly read it
[4:33:51] Speaker 37: from your child like when you were children, so you
[4:33:55] Speaker 37: have much more knowledge on that. But on the basis
[4:33:58] Speaker 37: of Hinduism, it's not much technical, like we are not
[4:34:02] Speaker 37: mostly focused on the books. It's like whatever our parents
[4:34:05] Speaker 37: or whatever our previous generations have told us, like we
[4:34:09] Speaker 37: just have to believe it. I see my father going
[4:34:12] Speaker 37: to pray in a temple, so I just go behind
[4:34:14] Speaker 37: it and I just, you know, I just follow it blindly.
[4:34:18] Speaker 2: So that's the case.
[4:34:19] Speaker 37: That's that is the main case why most Hindus are
[4:34:23] Speaker 37: leaving Hinduism, I would say, and or not leaving Hinduism,
[4:34:27] Speaker 37: but they don't usually debate on that because they know
[4:34:31] Speaker 37: they don't have any proofs.
[4:34:32] Speaker 13: They don't have any books that they could consider or
[4:34:35] Speaker 13: anything like that. So that's why.
[4:34:37] Speaker 37: But I'm not here to you know, have a debate
[4:34:40] Speaker 37: on Hinduism because I left it like a few years ago,
[4:34:43] Speaker 37: so that's not my forte now, right I So, yes,
[4:34:49] Speaker 37: basically I was asking you that, like what would be
[4:34:51] Speaker 37: the criteria? And you gave me like three reasons the
[4:34:54] Speaker 37: signs that why the Quran is wrong? Right, but you
[4:34:59] Speaker 37: never answer like what is the criter? Like you answered
[4:35:03] Speaker 37: me like the what has what is wrong with the Quran?
[4:35:06] Speaker 37: Like can we can you just take me one thing
[4:35:10] Speaker 37: that's wrong and we'll discuss about it.
[4:35:13] Speaker 1: Sure, okay with you? Yeah, according to the Koran, women's
[4:35:16] Speaker 1: minds are deficient, which is why you need two women
[4:35:19] Speaker 1: as a witness to signing a contract as opposed to
[4:35:24] Speaker 1: one man. Actually you need two men or two men
[4:35:27] Speaker 1: plus one man plus two women. That's in two eight.
[4:35:33] Speaker 2: Yes, So basically what is what it says? Right?
[4:35:37] Speaker 13: Because we have interpretations?
[4:35:39] Speaker 37: Right, So even I had that question and like when
[4:35:43] Speaker 37: I asked it, so it's it's not like that they
[4:35:46] Speaker 37: are conceded in that way.
[4:35:49] Speaker 13: Just just give me a second.
[4:35:50] Speaker 2: Is that? Okay?
[4:35:51] Speaker 1: Take your time. We can read it out loud if
[4:35:56] Speaker 1: you want.
[4:35:58] Speaker 5: No.
[4:35:58] Speaker 37: Actually, I'm on the job also, so I have to
[4:36:00] Speaker 37: actually connect someone to something.
[4:36:07] Speaker 13: Okay, So what I was saying was like, you have
[4:36:11] Speaker 13: to you have to consider.
[4:36:16] Speaker 5: M h.
[4:36:18] Speaker 13: Where is that?
[4:36:20] Speaker 31: M M.
[4:36:22] Speaker 1: I'm sair.
[4:36:23] Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm taking so long.
[4:36:25] Speaker 19: Okay.
[4:36:31] Speaker 37: What I was saying is that you as you said
[4:36:33] Speaker 37: that there are two women's that we have to consider it.
[4:36:36] Speaker 2: And uh, okay, I've seen it. Uh right, So it's not.
[4:36:46] Speaker 13: Like that basically there are some rules that are defined
[4:36:49] Speaker 13: for the women's and the men.
[4:36:50] Speaker 27: Right.
[4:36:51] Speaker 37: Uh, Let's just suppose that if men are stronger in
[4:36:54] Speaker 37: power and men are ruling something, so they have some
[4:36:58] Speaker 37: they have some things, like you know, men have some
[4:37:01] Speaker 37: say in some things.
[4:37:02] Speaker 13: So there we consider like two men's statement to be correct.
[4:37:07] Speaker 37: But let's just suppose that there are women, like in pregnancy, right,
[4:37:11] Speaker 37: So in pregnancy we have the statement for two women.
[4:37:14] Speaker 37: We don't need men over there. So if there are
[4:37:16] Speaker 37: two women's and they state something regarding the pregnancy or
[4:37:20] Speaker 37: the area or the domain where the women are experienced,
[4:37:24] Speaker 37: then they have the equal opportunity. It's it's basically the
[4:37:28] Speaker 37: division of the work that way, so.
[4:37:31] Speaker 16: It's not different.
[4:37:32] Speaker 1: We're talking about a specific thing. It's about signing contracts.
[4:37:36] Speaker 1: So the way the Kuran reads is this is actually
[4:37:39] Speaker 1: an actual contract, like for money or a debt. Says,
[4:37:44] Speaker 1: when you contract alone for a fixed period of time,
[4:37:46] Speaker 1: committed to writing, let the scribe maintain justice between the parties, okay.
[4:37:51] Speaker 1: And part of the justice is making sure that you
[4:37:53] Speaker 1: have witnesses. Right says, call upon two of your men
[4:37:56] Speaker 1: to witness. If two men cannot be found, then what
[4:38:00] Speaker 1: man and two women of your choice will witness. So
[4:38:03] Speaker 1: if one of the women's forgets, the other may remind her.
[4:38:06] Speaker 1: And if you read the narrations like in the Hadis,
[4:38:11] Speaker 1: and if you read the tough Seer, it explains that
[4:38:13] Speaker 1: this is because women's minds are deficient compared to men.
[4:38:18] Speaker 37: Yes, because in the financial sector, when they were not
[4:38:21] Speaker 37: working in that sector, in that domain. So Lizzie suppose
[4:38:24] Speaker 37: that I'm not experienced in you know, in that domain
[4:38:30] Speaker 37: of the pregnancy. I don't know about it. So how
[4:38:32] Speaker 37: could I, you know, have that discussion or have any
[4:38:35] Speaker 37: say in that thing. So in the financial not.
[4:38:38] Speaker 1: About specialty though, it's about it's about memory. It says,
[4:38:42] Speaker 1: if one of the two women's forgets.
[4:38:47] Speaker 37: Yes, like the if two women forget this financial statement, right,
[4:38:52] Speaker 37: So as you were saying, like in financial statement, when
[4:38:55] Speaker 37: there are two women's connected, take like Lizzie, suppose that
[4:38:59] Speaker 37: there is one moment who forgets, then then you have
[4:39:05] Speaker 37: another woman.
[4:39:06] Speaker 2: But I am telling you that there.
[4:39:07] Speaker 13: Are situations what.
[4:39:10] Speaker 1: Would they be forgetting.
[4:39:13] Speaker 13: The finance?
[4:39:14] Speaker 37: You when you stated the verse, you were stating that accurately,
[4:39:18] Speaker 37: like in the finance thing when they were Uh.
[4:39:23] Speaker 1: But they're just witnesses. They're not part of the financial transaction.
[4:39:28] Speaker 37: Yes, that's what I'm telling you, Like when you are
[4:39:30] Speaker 37: let's just suppose that you are considering you know, we
[4:39:35] Speaker 37: are talking about fourteen hundred years ago, if I'm not wrong.
[4:39:38] Speaker 37: So if we are talking about fourteen hundred years ago, right,
[4:39:43] Speaker 37: we have to consider that that at that time, mostly
[4:39:46] Speaker 37: men were using that financial domains. They were mostly working
[4:39:49] Speaker 37: in that financial domain. No, It's like, if I'm not
[4:39:55] Speaker 37: a doctor, how could I be How would I be
[4:39:57] Speaker 37: suggesting someone?
[4:39:59] Speaker 1: What does a what is the witness have to know
[4:40:01] Speaker 1: about finance?
[4:40:04] Speaker 37: So witness Litzis Suppose that there's a witness who how
[4:40:09] Speaker 37: the finance works. Suppose that mostly the finances are done
[4:40:13] Speaker 37: by the men.
[4:40:14] Speaker 1: At that note, My question is what about finance does
[4:40:18] Speaker 1: a witness need to know to be a witness.
[4:40:21] Speaker 13: Yes, That's why I'm telling you.
[4:40:22] Speaker 37: You know, if there are men who are doing the
[4:40:26] Speaker 37: finances right and uh there's there are two women, right.
[4:40:32] Speaker 1: I'm not asking about tradition. I'm asking about specifically, what
[4:40:35] Speaker 1: specifically about finances does an individual need to know to
[4:40:40] Speaker 1: be a witness.
[4:40:43] Speaker 37: There could be anything like I'm not getting your question again,
[4:40:47] Speaker 37: you know, like what kind of finances You're.
[4:40:49] Speaker 1: Saying you need two women for one man because women
[4:40:52] Speaker 1: don't typically do finances. I'm asking you what specifically about
[4:40:56] Speaker 1: finances do they need to know to be good witnesses?
[4:41:00] Speaker 2: Yes?
[4:41:00] Speaker 37: Yes, Like what you are talking about, like, what you
[4:41:03] Speaker 37: are doing is you're taking today's a prime period and
[4:41:09] Speaker 37: connecting it to fourteen hundred years ago.
[4:41:11] Speaker 13: What I'm telling you is like.
[4:41:14] Speaker 37: There could be there could be huge numbers that they
[4:41:17] Speaker 37: were doing so women cannot Yes, even scientifically if you
[4:41:22] Speaker 37: check if I'm not wrong, the.
[4:41:25] Speaker 1: Men make sure have we heard this correctly? Women fifteen
[4:41:29] Speaker 1: hundred years ago didn't know numbers.
[4:41:31] Speaker 13: No, no, no, no, I didn't say that that they
[4:41:35] Speaker 13: didn't know numbers. Okay, so what I was wishing numbers?
[4:41:39] Speaker 1: Do you think they didn't know?
[4:41:41] Speaker 37: No, No, No, it's not about numbers. You're not getting
[4:41:43] Speaker 37: my point. Basically, what I'm saying is it's like, uh,
[4:41:49] Speaker 37: if you're not in that domain, how could you remember it.
[4:41:52] Speaker 37: Let's just suppose that if I am a remember anything
[4:41:56] Speaker 37: like lets if you do.
[4:41:58] Speaker 1: Do you know how witnesses work? Yes, So like, for example,
[4:42:03] Speaker 1: my first car loan, my father and my stepmother were
[4:42:09] Speaker 1: witnesses on the loan, and my father was actually a
[4:42:12] Speaker 1: co signer. Now, hold on the bank didn't give a
[4:42:16] Speaker 1: damn if they understood the loan. They only needed to
[4:42:20] Speaker 1: know that there was a witness and there was a
[4:42:22] Speaker 1: co signer. That's it. These witnesses here, they don't need
[4:42:24] Speaker 1: to understand what's happening inside of the contract. They only
[4:42:28] Speaker 1: need to witness that the contract happened.
[4:42:31] Speaker 13: Nope, that's wrong. No, that's from Oh.
[4:42:34] Speaker 1: Actually I disagree with you. No, you're wrong the history.
[4:42:38] Speaker 1: If women don't know finances, which means they're not good
[4:42:43] Speaker 1: for being witnesses, then it should be zero women. You
[4:42:46] Speaker 1: should never allow women to be witnesses for contracts. The
[4:42:49] Speaker 1: fact of the matter is this passage has nothing to
[4:42:51] Speaker 1: do with whether or not you understand finance. It's about
[4:42:54] Speaker 1: the deficiency of women's minds, which is why if you
[4:42:57] Speaker 1: just read the hadiths, it backs up my interpretation. My
[4:43:01] Speaker 1: interpretation of the passage is confirmed by the tough sear
[4:43:04] Speaker 1: and by the hadis.
[4:43:08] Speaker 13: Okay, can I speak now? Mhm okay.
[4:43:13] Speaker 37: What I'm saying is like you are getting it from
[4:43:16] Speaker 37: why because in your case, like like as said before,
[4:43:20] Speaker 37: in your case, you are getting it into prison like
[4:43:22] Speaker 37: you are stating like you have to witness something in
[4:43:25] Speaker 37: a signing format that you you are witnessing something at
[4:43:30] Speaker 37: that particular moment.
[4:43:31] Speaker 1: Yes, it's not like that's what witness.
[4:43:33] Speaker 37: Is new No, no, no, it's not like that. Witness
[4:43:36] Speaker 37: Also is suppose that I'm in a crime scene. I
[4:43:39] Speaker 37: saw a man killing someone.
[4:43:42] Speaker 2: Right?
[4:43:43] Speaker 37: Are you getting my point right now? So I saw
[4:43:45] Speaker 37: a man killing someone. I am a witness. I have
[4:43:49] Speaker 37: to go to court and be there as a witness,
[4:43:53] Speaker 37: and I have to jump from my memory and portray
[4:43:57] Speaker 37: everything in.
[4:43:58] Speaker 13: That court room regarding that scene.
[4:44:01] Speaker 37: Right, is, if I gave you the correct example, is
[4:44:07] Speaker 37: that correct example of a witness.
[4:44:09] Speaker 1: Witness only needs to recall what they witnessed.
[4:44:12] Speaker 13: Yes, that's that's what I'm saying.
[4:44:14] Speaker 1: So witnesses are not witnesses are not financial advisors. They
[4:44:18] Speaker 1: don't need to know what's happening. They just need to
[4:44:20] Speaker 1: know that it happened.
[4:44:22] Speaker 37: No, no, no, then you are What you are doing
[4:44:25] Speaker 37: is you are taking what one witness and you are
[4:44:27] Speaker 37: assuming it that that kind of witness is fitting in
[4:44:29] Speaker 37: that moment.
[4:44:31] Speaker 1: What I'm saying, do you think that Sahibakari is reliable?
[4:44:36] Speaker 13: Yes, like there are authentic Okay, because from.
[4:44:39] Speaker 1: The Hebakari agrees with me. Because narrated by Abu said
[4:44:44] Speaker 1: al Kadri, the prophet said, isn't the witness of a
[4:44:49] Speaker 1: woman equal to half of that of a man?
[4:44:52] Speaker 13: Can you give me the number?
[4:44:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna be in Sahi Bikari book forty eight,
[4:45:00] Speaker 1: number eight twenty six.
[4:45:04] Speaker 2: ADID.
[4:45:05] Speaker 1: Sorry, it's number eight twenty six six okay, And it
[4:45:12] Speaker 1: says it says it's a quotation from the prophet.
[4:45:16] Speaker 37: I never actually completed my statement that I was giving
[4:45:20] Speaker 37: it before.
[4:45:20] Speaker 1: I never Well, I think it's kind of irrelevant because
[4:45:23] Speaker 1: you can't demonstrate your claim to be true. I can
[4:45:25] Speaker 1: demonstrate mine to be true. So within your own religion,
[4:45:29] Speaker 1: within your own religion. The explanation is that women's minds
[4:45:32] Speaker 1: are deficient. So it literally says, the prophet said, isn't
[4:45:38] Speaker 1: the witness of a woman equal to half of that
[4:45:40] Speaker 1: a man? The woman said, yes, he said, this is
[4:45:43] Speaker 1: because of the deficiency of a woman's mind.
[4:45:49] Speaker 3: Okay, So.
[4:45:53] Speaker 37: Basically, as I'm reading right now, the context matter in this.
[4:46:00] Speaker 37: Hello I'm audible.
[4:46:01] Speaker 1: M hmm. Do you think women's mind are deficient?
[4:46:05] Speaker 5: No?
[4:46:05] Speaker 13: No, no, Like as I was telling you, like, there
[4:46:07] Speaker 13: are context to everything.
[4:46:09] Speaker 2: Even I was.
[4:46:10] Speaker 37: When I was explaining something, you cut me off and
[4:46:13] Speaker 37: you took me into this one. Okay, let's just see.
[4:46:16] Speaker 5: Uh.
[4:46:16] Speaker 37: It does not imply overall inequality or inferiority between men
[4:46:20] Speaker 37: and women. It addresses a specific legal guideline, not inherent value.
[4:46:25] Speaker 1: It says their brains are deficient.
[4:46:28] Speaker 5: No.
[4:46:28] Speaker 13: No, see, that's why I told you that context matters.
[4:46:32] Speaker 1: I forgot about that.
[4:46:33] Speaker 13: Okay, that's what I'm saying.
[4:46:36] Speaker 1: If we have no meaning to believers, I forgot about that.
[4:46:40] Speaker 5: No.
[4:46:40] Speaker 2: No, just just listen to me.
[4:46:42] Speaker 37: If if when I was reading in school, I used
[4:46:45] Speaker 37: to listen like I was, I used to read that
[4:46:47] Speaker 37: sun sets in the East, right, So it doesn't mean
[4:46:51] Speaker 37: that some sets in the east. Then we learn and
[4:46:55] Speaker 37: then we know, so they have context to some terms.
[4:46:57] Speaker 2: You just have to read it out.
[4:46:58] Speaker 37: So as I'm telling you meaning of deficiency basically in Arabic,
[4:47:03] Speaker 37: it's called luksan and uh it's classical commentators. Basically what
[4:47:08] Speaker 37: it says, it's male dominated in finance. As I was
[4:47:13] Speaker 37: telling you that it's male dominated in finance.
[4:47:16] Speaker 1: Show me a tough show me a narration. Stop saying it,
[4:47:19] Speaker 1: prove it. Don't get up here in loud to me.
[4:47:23] Speaker 1: Show me in the tough sier where it says this interpretation.
[4:47:26] Speaker 13: Do you have to take the interpretations? What you are
[4:47:29] Speaker 13: doing is right now.
[4:47:30] Speaker 1: I'm asking you to show me an authoritative interpretation because
[4:47:33] Speaker 1: I've showed you an authoritative interpretation. And as you've given
[4:47:37] Speaker 1: me is trust me.
[4:47:38] Speaker 26: Bro no, no, no, no, I give you.
[4:47:41] Speaker 2: Just give me some time.
[4:47:42] Speaker 13: Don't worry. It's just a click away, by the way,
[4:47:54] Speaker 13: like let's just okay.
[4:47:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, it should be just a click away. Because I'm
[4:47:58] Speaker 1: looking at the tough seies right now. There's a bunch
[4:47:59] Speaker 1: of them. Agree with me.
[4:48:01] Speaker 26: Do you use you?
[4:48:02] Speaker 2: Do you use chargypty?
[4:48:03] Speaker 1: No, I'm on Kuran dot com.
[4:48:06] Speaker 37: That's why we like it's Google, you know, so chargipit
[4:48:09] Speaker 37: is much more you know, viable. You can use it.
[4:48:12] Speaker 37: It will give you all the details of iban Hajjer
[4:48:18] Speaker 37: al Askalani Fatalburi.
[4:48:20] Speaker 2: It's a book.
[4:48:21] Speaker 37: Ibn Hajja clarifies that the term nuksan basically the deficiency
[4:48:26] Speaker 37: that you are taking in the you know, the English language.
[4:48:30] Speaker 13: The defficiency I'm like.
[4:48:33] Speaker 37: Ibn Ha clarifies that the term son shortage or reduction
[4:48:36] Speaker 37: does not employ deficiency in woman intelligence or spirituality. Rather,
[4:48:41] Speaker 37: it refers to specific legal obligations such as financial testimony
[4:48:47] Speaker 37: and the menstrual exemption from prayer and fasting. So I'm
[4:48:53] Speaker 37: telling you this, it's it's just a click await to
[4:48:56] Speaker 37: charge you. Just put it down and it will give
[4:48:59] Speaker 37: you the answer.
[4:48:59] Speaker 1: Okay, well that's well, my friend I pay attention. My
[4:49:04] Speaker 1: friend MS, who's a native Arabic speaker, disagrees with you,
[4:49:08] Speaker 1: and he grew up in this religion.
[4:49:10] Speaker 37: No, no, no, see, there are speakers, There are many
[4:49:14] Speaker 37: other speakers. There are Muslims who turned to atheies. I'm
[4:49:18] Speaker 37: not talking about those people, you know.
[4:49:20] Speaker 1: So why does why does the tough seer on Quran
[4:49:25] Speaker 1: dot com say that it's it's about a woman's memory.
[4:49:29] Speaker 13: Okay, what you are reading what I'm telling you.
[4:49:32] Speaker 1: So you have to I know about the context. I'm
[4:49:34] Speaker 1: reading the commentary the tough Seer is the commentary on
[4:49:37] Speaker 1: the passage. And what you're suggesting, first of all is
[4:49:41] Speaker 1: that words don't mean words. You want to change the
[4:49:43] Speaker 1: meaning of words. So the guy who translated the word
[4:49:45] Speaker 1: was wrong, and that's fine. If you think the guy
[4:49:47] Speaker 1: that translated it in English is wrong, that's fine. But
[4:49:50] Speaker 1: I'm reading the tough Seer and it agrees with me
[4:49:53] Speaker 1: that the problem here is exactly as it's translated, that
[4:49:56] Speaker 1: a woman can and will forget, which is why you
[4:49:59] Speaker 1: need to of them read the Okay, Uh, it's gonna
[4:50:04] Speaker 1: be it, says a laws statement. Even he says, oh,
[4:50:08] Speaker 1: you who believe when you contract for a debt or
[4:50:11] Speaker 1: a fixed period, write it down. Directs allaws believing servant
[4:50:14] Speaker 1: to record their business transactions when their term is delayed
[4:50:18] Speaker 1: to preserve the term and timing of these transactions and
[4:50:22] Speaker 1: the memory of the witnesses. As mentioned at the end
[4:50:26] Speaker 1: of the Ayah, the concern here is for the memory
[4:50:30] Speaker 1: of the witnesses.
[4:50:31] Speaker 13: No no, no, no, no, it's not the memory the concern.
[4:50:34] Speaker 1: It says, memory of the witnesses.
[4:50:36] Speaker 2: Bro, just let me compare.
[4:50:38] Speaker 1: I know words don't mean words. I'm not gonna let
[4:50:39] Speaker 1: you lie to me.
[4:50:40] Speaker 4: No no, no, no, no, no no no.
[4:50:42] Speaker 1: So every time I read something that says exactly what
[4:50:45] Speaker 1: I said, it says you go in and say no, no,
[4:50:47] Speaker 1: it doesn't mean memory. The word memory doesn't mean memory.
[4:50:52] Speaker 1: You are not even without lies. Without lies, religion dies friends.
[4:50:57] Speaker 13: But Bro, I never completed a statement.
[4:50:59] Speaker 2: How do you know I lied?
[4:51:01] Speaker 1: You're lying right now. The minute you tell me that
[4:51:04] Speaker 1: memory doesn't mean memory, you're lying.
[4:51:07] Speaker 37: I am just let me just complete the statement and
[4:51:10] Speaker 37: then decide. But you are not letting me complete you know,
[4:51:13] Speaker 37: did you do? You find it funny that I let
[4:51:16] Speaker 37: you complete all the statements, and still when I start.
[4:51:19] Speaker 1: Speaking, you just shut me off because you're lying to me.
[4:51:22] Speaker 2: But you never let me complete the statements.
[4:51:25] Speaker 1: I'm not gonna let you lie to me. The translation
[4:51:29] Speaker 1: says memory. It's about her memory, the same with the
[4:51:32] Speaker 1: other tests here. Therefore, recording such agreements helps the witnesses
[4:51:36] Speaker 1: when they see their handwriting or signatures later on, and
[4:51:39] Speaker 1: thus remember what they witnessed, for it is possible that
[4:51:43] Speaker 1: the witnesses might forget what they witnessed. The whole goal
[4:51:46] Speaker 1: here is to remember what you witnessed, and women's brains,
[4:51:50] Speaker 1: according to the Koran, don't remember things as good. It's
[4:51:54] Speaker 1: what it says. That's what the testear says, is what
[4:51:56] Speaker 1: the Koran says.
[4:51:57] Speaker 37: Your chat is seeing this, right, that will see that,
[4:52:01] Speaker 37: and your chad will see that. You are not letting
[4:52:03] Speaker 37: me complete a statement, but you are giving.
[4:52:05] Speaker 1: Tell me, tell me how remembering doesn't mean remembering.
[4:52:09] Speaker 37: You're just stick on one statement. When I'm telling you
[4:52:12] Speaker 37: you gave the tough seed, right, I didn't give the
[4:52:15] Speaker 37: tough seed, right, I'm I correct in this right now
[4:52:18] Speaker 37: I'm reading it. Yeah, when when you gave the top seed,
[4:52:21] Speaker 37: you you read it that there is a specific specific condition.
[4:52:26] Speaker 5: You know.
[4:52:27] Speaker 13: You read it on the financial terms. You read it.
[4:52:31] Speaker 1: Didn't say that. Read it again, You're a liar. It
[4:52:34] Speaker 1: talked about them having to remember. It talked about them
[4:52:38] Speaker 1: having to remember what they witness I read another one.
[4:52:43] Speaker 1: It literally says you curse a lot and you do
[4:52:46] Speaker 1: not appreciate your mate. I never have seen those who
[4:52:49] Speaker 1: have shortcomings in mind and religion controlling those who have
[4:52:52] Speaker 1: sound minds other than you. She said, oh, messenger of
[4:52:56] Speaker 1: a law, what is the shortcoming in mind and religion?
[4:52:59] Speaker 1: And he said, for the shortcoming in her mind, the
[4:53:01] Speaker 1: testimony of two men equals the testimony of one man.
[4:53:05] Speaker 1: So the prophet in the quotation of the Prophet of
[4:53:09] Speaker 1: the tef Seer, is saying that women have deficient memories.
[4:53:13] Speaker 13: See like you jumped from one top seed to another.
[4:53:16] Speaker 1: Right, because they all say the same thing. All of
[4:53:18] Speaker 1: the tough siers say exactly what I said, which is
[4:53:21] Speaker 1: that women have faulty memories.
[4:53:24] Speaker 13: See, that's what you're doing.
[4:53:25] Speaker 37: What you are doing is when you know that the
[4:53:28] Speaker 37: previous top seed, when you read it it said what
[4:53:31] Speaker 37: I said, it jumped into another one it didn't.
[4:53:33] Speaker 13: Then read the first one.
[4:53:34] Speaker 1: Read it again, okay, says oh, you who believe, when
[4:53:38] Speaker 1: you contract for debt or fixed period, write it down.
[4:53:41] Speaker 1: Directs Allah's believing servant to record their business transactions when
[4:53:45] Speaker 1: their term is delayed to preserve the term and the
[4:53:48] Speaker 1: timing of these transactions and the memory of the witnesses,
[4:53:54] Speaker 1: as mentioned at the end of the Ayah, the memory
[4:53:57] Speaker 1: of the witnesses for what it doesn't say it didn't
[4:54:02] Speaker 1: the dead. No, it doesn't say that wrong again, Oh
[4:54:07] Speaker 1: my god.
[4:54:08] Speaker 2: That's so life bro. You read that the debt, that
[4:54:13] Speaker 2: the brisiness transaction.
[4:54:14] Speaker 1: That their witnessing.
[4:54:15] Speaker 13: Yeah, yes, when they are done, so you have to
[4:54:19] Speaker 13: remember it.
[4:54:20] Speaker 2: M M what I was saying.
[4:54:21] Speaker 1: No, you don't have to remember it. You just have
[4:54:24] Speaker 1: to remember what you witnessed.
[4:54:26] Speaker 13: But who are doing those things?
[4:54:28] Speaker 1: Men and women?
[4:54:29] Speaker 13: Both men were doing.
[4:54:31] Speaker 1: If women, If women weren't doing them, then there should
[4:54:34] Speaker 1: never be two of them to witness it. If women
[4:54:36] Speaker 1: are incapable of If women are incapable, hey, yeah, listen,
[4:54:41] Speaker 1: if women are incapable of doing business contracts, then two
[4:54:45] Speaker 1: should never be equal to one. There should be zero
[4:54:48] Speaker 1: of them.
[4:54:49] Speaker 37: No, no, no, See what happens is when there are transactions.
[4:54:53] Speaker 37: Lets you suppose that there is no men in the family.
[4:54:56] Speaker 1: Then you then you need to then you need two women?
[4:55:00] Speaker 13: Yes, so that what's wrong in that? I don't know?
[4:55:03] Speaker 1: So what if you what if you're the only woman
[4:55:05] Speaker 1: in the family and you're the one in charge of
[4:55:06] Speaker 1: the finances, why do you need to women witnesses?
[4:55:10] Speaker 37: Even if you are only men in the family, you
[4:55:12] Speaker 37: just you have to have one and another man to
[4:55:14] Speaker 37: have that discussion or two women.
[4:55:17] Speaker 1: No, No, it's not the case. No, yes, say what
[4:55:21] Speaker 1: what you're what you're describing? What you're describing as silly
[4:55:25] Speaker 1: because it turns out women women know what a debt is.
[4:55:28] Speaker 1: Do you think women are so stupid they don't know
[4:55:30] Speaker 1: what a debt is? This is the worst apologetic for
[4:55:33] Speaker 1: this passage I've ever heard. This is embarrassing.
[4:55:35] Speaker 13: See what you are doing is you are that's called presentism.
[4:55:39] Speaker 13: I know you are so knowledgeable.
[4:55:41] Speaker 1: You know it's actually not called presentism. I need, I
[4:55:44] Speaker 1: need you to pay attention. I asked you a question
[4:55:47] Speaker 1: and you didn't answer. No, because you're not answering my question.
[4:55:51] Speaker 1: You didn't answer. I asked you a yes or no question?
[4:55:53] Speaker 1: Do you think women knew what a debt is?
[4:55:58] Speaker 13: Every question?
[4:55:59] Speaker 1: I gotta newt to you because you won't stopped talking.
[4:56:01] Speaker 1: So I'll try this again and I can hear you.
[4:56:02] Speaker 1: Hold on one second. I need you to say yes
[4:56:05] Speaker 1: or no to my question or this. No one can
[4:56:07] Speaker 1: you're muted. No one can hear you. Hey, no one
[4:56:10] Speaker 1: can hear you. You're muted. So I need a yes
[4:56:13] Speaker 1: or no to my question. The question is did women
[4:56:18] Speaker 1: in Muhammad's time, did they know what a debt is?
[4:56:22] Speaker 13: Hello, I'm audible.
[4:56:25] Speaker 1: Do they know what a debt is?
[4:56:29] Speaker 13: Am I audible?
[4:56:30] Speaker 1: I'm asking you a question. I'm hoping you're going to
[4:56:33] Speaker 1: say an answer.
[4:56:34] Speaker 2: Am I audible?
[4:56:35] Speaker 16: First?
[4:56:36] Speaker 1: At least clarify this obviously, if I'm asking you to
[4:56:39] Speaker 1: say yes or no, You're audible.
[4:56:40] Speaker 32: So it's it's a yes or no.
[4:56:43] Speaker 1: It's a yes or no. So in Muhammad's time, we're
[4:56:45] Speaker 1: women capable of knowing what a debt is.
[4:56:49] Speaker 13: It's not every time.
[4:56:56] Speaker 1: All right, I got a mute them. So here's the deal.
[4:56:58] Speaker 1: We've got a massage genist on the line who literally
[4:57:01] Speaker 1: thinks women are too dumb to know what debts and
[4:57:04] Speaker 1: numbers are. That's that's what this guy thinks of women.
[4:57:08] Speaker 1: He literally thinks that women are so stupid that back
[4:57:12] Speaker 1: in Muhammad's time, women were so dumb that they didn't
[4:57:16] Speaker 1: know how to remember a number or to know what
[4:57:19] Speaker 1: a debt is. That's how that's how this guy thinks
[4:57:21] Speaker 1: of women. MS. Can you hear me? It sounds like
[4:57:24] Speaker 1: your connection is kind of kind of crash down.
[4:57:28] Speaker 26: So in the transition, what did you see that they're
[4:57:32] Speaker 26: deficient in memory?
[4:57:34] Speaker 16: Yeah?
[4:57:34] Speaker 1: So the the guy I'm talking to. In the translation
[4:57:38] Speaker 1: where it says that the women have deficient memories, he's saying,
[4:57:40] Speaker 1: the word deficient doesn't mean deficient, it's deficient place in
[4:57:48] Speaker 1: This is lacking. In your translation, it says lacking, lacking
[4:57:53] Speaker 1: in mind. In Arabic it says lacking in mind. Yes, ship, Yeah,
[4:57:59] Speaker 1: women are lacking in mind. That's a religion I want
[4:58:02] Speaker 1: to follow.
[4:58:04] Speaker 13: Can I answer? I'm audible?
[4:58:06] Speaker 1: Answer what Em said? What Ms just gave you the
[4:58:11] Speaker 1: translation of the Arabic word?
[4:58:13] Speaker 27: Yeah?
[4:58:14] Speaker 13: How would I to.
[4:58:17] Speaker 26: Be more accurate? It's going to be so deficient like
[4:58:21] Speaker 26: lacking in great so great?
[4:58:26] Speaker 2: H So can you let me know destruction zone? Like lee?
[4:58:31] Speaker 1: What did you hear what he said?
[4:58:34] Speaker 5: No?
[4:58:34] Speaker 1: I I kind of sorry his translations. I think his
[4:58:37] Speaker 1: connection broke up. He said the Arabic says lacking in mind,
[4:58:43] Speaker 1: and a.
[4:58:43] Speaker 13: Big never says that basically it's English.
[4:58:46] Speaker 1: No, the Arabic. He he Ms is a native Arabic speaker,
[4:58:51] Speaker 1: and he knows ancient classical Arabic as well. He says
[4:58:55] Speaker 1: that the Arabic says lacking in mind. So I'm gonna
[4:58:59] Speaker 1: I'm gonna trust the guy who actually knows the language
[4:59:01] Speaker 1: rather than chat GBT, I.
[4:59:03] Speaker 13: Am asking him what is the.
[4:59:08] Speaker 1: Talk, what's the air? What's the Arabic word?
[4:59:11] Speaker 3: MS?
[4:59:16] Speaker 1: I'm just got a bad connection. Oh sorry, sorry, MS,
[4:59:19] Speaker 1: you're remuted there. What's the Airbic word?
[4:59:21] Speaker 26: Yeah?
[4:59:22] Speaker 1: Stock say one more time for the guests.
[4:59:27] Speaker 26: Yeah.
[4:59:28] Speaker 13: Sorry, you can't type it. You can't type it.
[4:59:35] Speaker 1: No, I can't type it. I don't have an Arabic keyboard.
[4:59:40] Speaker 13: Like you can type.
[4:59:41] Speaker 1: Okay, So do you not know Arabic?
[4:59:45] Speaker 5: Oh?
[4:59:45] Speaker 26: Yeah, he wants he wants to.
[4:59:48] Speaker 13: I think you are trying to say it's.
[4:59:52] Speaker 26: It's no, it's not monthly. So it's divisions in brain.
[4:59:56] Speaker 26: We're liking in break.
[4:59:59] Speaker 13: I'm not him properly.
[5:00:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the connection is bad.
[5:00:04] Speaker 26: Well, listen, guys, let me come back, Yes, let me
[5:00:07] Speaker 26: come back.
[5:00:07] Speaker 1: And it's five o'clock. I gotta I gotta cut it short.
[5:00:09] Speaker 1: I gotta go. I gotta go relieve my my nanny.
[5:00:12] Speaker 1: But well, we can pick this up. I'll be live
[5:00:15] Speaker 1: again next week. We can pick it up later.
[5:00:18] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[5:00:19] Speaker 26: So my connection sucks it.
[5:00:21] Speaker 1: Okay, don't worry about it.
[5:00:22] Speaker 2: See buddy, thanks so much to get me on the jack.
[5:00:26] Speaker 1: Thanks for coming through.
[5:00:27] Speaker 2: Youers.
[5:00:32] Speaker 1: What a crazy defense of Islam. But we knew it's
[5:00:36] Speaker 1: always the same thing. It's always words don't mean words.
[5:00:39] Speaker 1: All right, let me grab a couple more super chats.
[5:00:41] Speaker 1: We gotta go. I'm sorry about that. Saint Brush says,
[5:00:43] Speaker 1: this mushroom man sounds like his eyes are glazed over,
[5:00:46] Speaker 1: And actually I think his eyes were actually glazed over.
[5:00:49] Speaker 1: And Marcus says, I've taken LSD dune mushrooms on more
[5:00:52] Speaker 1: than one occasion. Some could call a few times heroic dosage.
[5:00:56] Speaker 1: My hallucinations actually affirmed my atheism. This is an incredibly
[5:01:00] Speaker 1: dumb argument. I agree, it's a dumb argument. And again,
[5:01:05] Speaker 1: there's a bunch of people who do this. They're not theists. Jesus.
[5:01:09] Speaker 1: Psychoactive drugs shouldn't challenge atheism because atheism is non belief
[5:01:13] Speaker 1: in a god. How does someone on hallucinary substance know
[5:01:17] Speaker 1: the difference between a metaphor or a mystical experience in
[5:01:19] Speaker 1: a psychosist, they don't. There's no way to prove it,
[5:01:21] Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. He's just got takeups again. He's
[5:01:25] Speaker 1: just hoping that I have a personal experience that I'm
[5:01:28] Speaker 1: dumb enough to appeal to. My personal experience rather than
[5:01:31] Speaker 1: my rational thinking factulies. All right, last super chat from Griffin.
[5:01:35] Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Griffin says, good afternoon, Justin. I
[5:01:37] Speaker 1: asked about the uburritic text yesterday. Do you have any
[5:01:39] Speaker 1: book recommendations that stood out to you and change your
[5:01:42] Speaker 1: opinions towards atheism? Actually, I came to atheism on my own.
[5:01:48] Speaker 1: I studied religion a lot, I studied Christianity a lot.
[5:01:51] Speaker 1: When it came to atheism, I came to that conclusion
[5:01:55] Speaker 1: all my on my own. I think reading science books
[5:01:58] Speaker 1: are helpful. Like Sarah loves the book Why Evolution Is True.
[5:02:02] Speaker 1: I haven't read it yet, but it's got a lot
[5:02:04] Speaker 1: of great reviews. But for me, just thinking about cosmology
[5:02:10] Speaker 1: was all it took for me. Heaven and Hell doesn't
[5:02:12] Speaker 1: make any sense with our cosmological scene. It makes zero sense.
[5:02:17] Speaker 1: So unfortunately, I don't know if I can help you
[5:02:20] Speaker 1: out there. My path from agnosticism to atheism was kind
[5:02:26] Speaker 1: of all on my own. But there's a lot of
[5:02:28] Speaker 1: books that you could read on the topic. I'm sorry
[5:02:32] Speaker 1: I don't have any good recommendations. All right, guys, I'm
[5:02:35] Speaker 1: sorry I left a couple superchats hanging on the board. Unfortunately,
[5:02:38] Speaker 1: just things was what it was. I think I missed
[5:02:41] Speaker 1: like ten of them. I really apologize for anyone who
[5:02:43] Speaker 1: super chatted, but I got to run. My nanny's leaving.
[5:02:46] Speaker 1: I'm three minutes late. Love you guys, Thank you so
[5:02:48] Speaker 1: so much for being here. We'll be live again next week.
[5:02:52] Speaker 1: We'll be doing lots of daytime streams next week, so
[5:02:55] Speaker 1: enjoy your weekend, have a great time. If it's good weather,
[5:02:58] Speaker 1: get some outdoor time out or is good for you,
[5:03:00] Speaker 1: touch some grass, and we'll see again soon.

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