# 2025-5-28 LIVE DEBATE \[God is Imaginary\]

An episode of [Deconstruction Zone](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1837730286), 17 Sep 2025, 3 h 47 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/67798386/2025_5_28_live_debate_god_is_imaginary.mp3

Live debating every theist on the planet. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Get Member Perks: https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone/join https://patreon.com/Deconstruction_Zone --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUPPORT THE STREAM: https://venmo.com/u/JHCOFFEEFUND https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/JHCOFFEEFUND https://cash.app/$JHCOFFEEFUND --------------------------------------------------------------------- SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS: https://www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction.zone https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone https://www.youtube.com/@DZDebates https://www.twitch.tv/deconstructionzone_ https://www.instagram.com/deconstruction_zone/ https://clapperapp.com/Justin_DZ https://x.com/Justin_DZ_ https://discord.com/invite/WmeAmrhkxZ https://linktr.ee/justin_____ Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/deconstruction-zone--6451535/support.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: All right, all right, I think we've got the streams open.
[0:07] Speaker 1: Let me double check here before we get too far
[0:10] Speaker 1: ahead of ourselves. The YouTube stream should be up in
[0:15] Speaker 1: Rocking and Rolling, and the YouTube guest box is open
[0:22] Speaker 1: once again. I'm streaming on the road, so I don't
[0:26] Speaker 1: have access to a Windows PC where I can dual
[0:30] Speaker 1: stream properly to TikTok and take TikTok guests. So we're
[0:34] Speaker 1: only going to be taking guests this week. At least
[0:37] Speaker 1: next week. I'll be back home only taking guests tonight
[0:41] Speaker 1: using the link provided TinyURL dot com forward slash guest
[0:48] Speaker 1: d z. If you're watching on Facebook or YouTube or Twitch,
[0:54] Speaker 1: it's in the description of the video. You'll be able
[0:56] Speaker 1: to click on the link and you'll be able to
[0:59] Speaker 1: get into the guest box. Also, welcome in friends. It's
[1:04] Speaker 1: Wednesday night, so thank you so much for being here.
[1:07] Speaker 1: I appreciate you come in for the late showing. Sorry
[1:12] Speaker 1: I'm kind of working late this week, but welcome in everyone.
[1:17] Speaker 1: Marcelene Autumn, good to see you guys. Also, we've got
[1:22] Speaker 1: a bunch of people piling in on the YouTube streams.
[1:26] Speaker 1: Welcome in, friends, and I think we got a couple
[1:30] Speaker 1: super chats already and a new member to the Crack
[1:34] Speaker 1: and Crew Elite, k R. Young. Welcome to the Crack
[1:37] Speaker 1: and Crew Elite, Big w and make sure and grab
[1:42] Speaker 1: the link to the cheat sheet now that you're in
[1:44] Speaker 1: the Crack and Crew and also Dexter with us tonight.
[1:49] Speaker 1: Good to see it. Dexter, thank you so much for
[1:51] Speaker 1: sending out five DZ Subby's right off the rip, big
[1:55] Speaker 1: W very during generous, so good to see you tonight,
[1:59] Speaker 1: Dex and Spencer, thank you for the two hours superchest,
[2:04] Speaker 1: Spencer says. Doug says, thank you for lichen in Sharon.
[2:09] Speaker 1: What wait is lichen wait? Thank you for lichen in Sharon.
[2:13] Speaker 1: Hmm oh, liking in Sharon? Am I I think you're
[2:17] Speaker 1: making a plan. Words that may have gone over my head,
[2:22] Speaker 1: but I think I see what you're what you're I'm
[2:25] Speaker 1: picking up what you're dropping. I'm picking up I'm picking
[2:28] Speaker 1: up what you're laying down there We go anyway, Spencer,
[2:31] Speaker 1: thank you so for the super chat. I appreciate that.
[2:33] Speaker 1: And the guest box is open. Looks like everyone Joycey
[2:38] Speaker 1: says Lisien or listen is that something I should know about?
[2:43] Speaker 1: See now, I got to look it up. Hold on,
[2:46] Speaker 1: let's see, it looks like it is a form of algae. Okay,
[2:53] Speaker 1: so maybe I don't know what's happening here. Interesting, okay,
[2:58] Speaker 1: all right, okay, of course it could have been type
[3:01] Speaker 1: of for lichen. I could be wrong. It's hard to say.
[3:04] Speaker 1: It's hard to say. Sometimes I've sent quite a few
[3:07] Speaker 1: mis type superchats, that's for sure.
[3:10] Speaker 2: Uh.
[3:10] Speaker 1: And Timothy says, kitchen gonna get start getting steamy. That's
[3:14] Speaker 1: what's about to happen. To put the smoke detectors away.
[3:17] Speaker 1: There's going to be fire and tales of the levant.
[3:20] Speaker 1: Good to see it tonight. Thank you so much for
[3:22] Speaker 1: the fight. Our superchest says, is the Pigeon Bible translation
[3:26] Speaker 1: approved by Doug. I don't even know that translation. Holy shit,
[3:29] Speaker 1: that's the Pigeon hold on, bi, this is weird the
[3:36] Speaker 1: Pigeon Bible translation. Interesting is this? This is a Hawaiian
[3:44] Speaker 1: you know, the native speech about half of those who
[3:47] Speaker 1: brought up in Hawaii. I had no idea that there
[3:51] Speaker 1: was a specific Bible translation dedicated to the native Hawaiian language. Unfortunately,
[3:58] Speaker 1: I don't know anything about it. I can't read native Hawaiian,
[4:02] Speaker 1: so I certainly wouldn't have much to add to whether
[4:04] Speaker 1: or not it's a good translations. I would say this,
[4:07] Speaker 1: if that's your native tongue, that's probably what you should
[4:09] Speaker 1: be reading. Just putting that out there. Not that every
[4:12] Speaker 1: you know, Bible translation is necessarily good. We've seen bad
[4:16] Speaker 1: ones before, we've seen them on the stream. But if
[4:19] Speaker 1: it's in your tongue, you're more likely to understand it.
[4:22] Speaker 1: So I would go for that, and mostly, Gizzard's great
[4:26] Speaker 1: to see you tonight, thank you for the six sixty six.
[4:29] Speaker 1: Hail Nero says, let's fucking go. Justin and I say,
[4:33] Speaker 1: we are going, Gizzard, we are absolutely going, and we
[4:37] Speaker 1: agree with you as well. Megs let go, We're absolutely going.
[4:41] Speaker 1: We're locked and loaded and we are about ready to
[4:47] Speaker 1: bring in our first guests. I don't want to get
[4:49] Speaker 1: buried in superchatch just yet. Let me let me clear
[4:53] Speaker 1: the board, Adam says me, love you long. I appreciate that, Adam,
[5:00] Speaker 1: and tell us maall Johnson. I said, hello, and Rouge,
[5:05] Speaker 1: thank you for the five. Our supertest says hey, Justin,
[5:07] Speaker 1: have you ever read about the Aboriginal dream time oral traditions?
[5:11] Speaker 1: Any thoughts? I have not. Unfortunately, you know, I got
[5:15] Speaker 1: to do a little bit of sociology when I was
[5:17] Speaker 1: in college, and that was about it. I just did
[5:19] Speaker 1: like the minimum requirements. I can't say that I've been
[5:22] Speaker 1: able to study a lot of Aboriginal culture or or
[5:27] Speaker 1: anything of that nature, but it certainly would be interesting.
[5:30] Speaker 1: If you have resources, send them my way. I'd love
[5:33] Speaker 1: to learn about them. And Texas Panhandler, great to see
[5:36] Speaker 1: you tonight. Thank you so much for the nine nine
[5:38] Speaker 1: nine super tests, says Yo, Justin glad to catch the
[5:40] Speaker 1: stream at the start tonight, praise Doug. Well, I'm glad
[5:44] Speaker 1: you're here, Texas, and we started late, but we're gonna cook. Nonetheless,
[5:48] Speaker 1: the oven is already preheated to three point fifty. We're
[5:52] Speaker 1: gonna put the bunk cake in. And Pat Pat, my friend.
[5:55] Speaker 1: Good to see is say, let's get cook and what's
[5:57] Speaker 1: happened in Justin? Well right now, Pat Pat, we're just
[6:01] Speaker 1: grabbing a couple of super chests that we're going to
[6:02] Speaker 1: bring in our first guests from r Queue and Gizzards.
[6:07] Speaker 1: Thank you so so much for sending out five DZ memberships.
[6:10] Speaker 1: It's very generous, greatly appreciated. And Johannah's with us as well.
[6:14] Speaker 1: Good to see you. Friend. So I don't understand why
[6:17] Speaker 1: believers always say that God is love, yet they practice
[6:20] Speaker 1: so much hate and tease your children to hate as well.
[6:23] Speaker 1: It's the craziest thing. It's because people say things without thinking.
[6:27] Speaker 1: That's the reality of it. That these are platitudes, right.
[6:31] Speaker 1: Platitudes are easy to say and they're difficult to do,
[6:34] Speaker 1: which is why we see so many of them. That's
[6:36] Speaker 1: my take on it. And Space Lord, good to see
[6:39] Speaker 1: your friend. Thank you for the superchest, says trying to
[6:41] Speaker 1: stay awake co bedtime after eating too much at a
[6:44] Speaker 1: Mexican restaurant. I ain't hungry, but let's cook. Listen. I
[6:48] Speaker 1: get it. I've been there. You gotta pace yourself. You
[6:51] Speaker 1: can't just go hog wild. That's how you get over full.
[6:54] Speaker 1: They give you huge portions at these restaurants. You got
[6:57] Speaker 1: to You gotta go in easy or else you end
[7:00] Speaker 1: up eating fifteen Jimmy chongas and you can't sleep all night.
[7:03] Speaker 1: Hannibal's mom, thank you so much for the super chests, says.
[7:06] Speaker 1: Scientists recorded the sound of two helium adams laughing. He
[7:12] Speaker 1: that's good. I like the table of elements joke. Greatly appreciated.
[7:16] Speaker 1: Big w Science jokes and Big W as well Johanna
[7:20] Speaker 1: for sending up five DZ memberships, Big Big W Supergeners
[7:25] Speaker 1: greatly appreciate it, Big Big W and Master Michettier, thank
[7:30] Speaker 1: you so much. I got a double superchests. Thank you
[7:32] Speaker 1: so much for the nine h nine super chat. Big
[7:36] Speaker 1: Big W says, how much do you know about Jehovah's
[7:39] Speaker 1: witnesses beliefs and how they differ from mainstream They come
[7:44] Speaker 1: by often and I'd love to chat with them from
[7:46] Speaker 1: a place of knowledge. Well, the JWS. So the problem
[7:53] Speaker 1: is the JWS aren't I don't want to say that
[7:58] Speaker 1: they're so call tea that they're not Christian. They have
[8:01] Speaker 1: a couple of weird belief systems, so like they're really
[8:05] Speaker 1: into the end times, like Jesus coming back soon. And
[8:09] Speaker 1: for a while they were like, well, only the one
[8:11] Speaker 1: hundred and forty four thousand chosen they're going to come back,
[8:14] Speaker 1: and it was a big, big to do. But I'm
[8:19] Speaker 1: trying to think if there's something in particular about the
[8:21] Speaker 1: JW's that really sets them apart. I can't say that
[8:25] Speaker 1: there's anything huge For me. I personally had such a
[8:32] Speaker 1: broad umbrella of Christianity when I was in it that
[8:35] Speaker 1: I guess. I just never thought of them as being
[8:39] Speaker 1: a cult. I thought they were just another denomination, and
[8:42] Speaker 1: I still do of Christianity. They're reading the book a
[8:44] Speaker 1: little bit differently than others. Like they're totally okay with
[8:48] Speaker 1: the Divine Council and typically being multiple tears of God.
[8:52] Speaker 1: They're more they're usually accepting of Henotheism, but they've got
[8:57] Speaker 1: a lot of weird, outlandish beliefs about out how they
[9:00] Speaker 1: interpret the Bible. Like I don't know, DM, me send
[9:07] Speaker 1: me a message on discord. I'll send you like a
[9:10] Speaker 1: bolded list of where they differ from typical mainstream Christians.
[9:16] Speaker 1: Because there's a couple of weird things out there and
[9:20] Speaker 1: a germs. Thank you for the six sixty six. Hail
[9:23] Speaker 1: NERO Hail Satan, says my Oxford Annotated NRSV Version five
[9:27] Speaker 1: arrives Friday. Big w I'm gonna spend a couple of
[9:30] Speaker 1: nights with a cheat sheet and some Pusta tabs. In Texas,
[9:33] Speaker 1: I get a lot of debates. I love to hear it. Listen,
[9:36] Speaker 1: take the cheat sheet, tab up that Bible, tab it
[9:40] Speaker 1: all to hell, and then you're gonna be ready. You'll
[9:43] Speaker 1: be when the sword drills are coming, You're gonna be
[9:46] Speaker 1: the most prepared of everybody. You're gonna have everything ready
[9:49] Speaker 1: to rock and roll and a bar. Good to see you,
[9:53] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the six sixty six hail
[9:55] Speaker 1: Nero says, I'd love to see you cook Jordan Peterson
[9:57] Speaker 1: one day. I was disappointed they did not invite me
[10:00] Speaker 1: to the Jordan Peterson Verse twenty atheists. It is what
[10:04] Speaker 1: it is. I think they're picking a lot of younger
[10:07] Speaker 1: people because that's their demographic. That being said, hey maybe
[10:12] Speaker 1: in the future, maybe I'll get on Jubilee in the future.
[10:15] Speaker 1: I'm trying. And Adele, thank you so much for the
[10:18] Speaker 1: find out our super chat. Great to see you tonight,
[10:20] Speaker 1: says simple and not confusing super chat to say hey,
[10:23] Speaker 1: and Doug bless us all well, thank you, thank you
[10:26] Speaker 1: so so much. I really do appreciate that. And good
[10:30] Speaker 1: to see and hear from you, Adele. And tell rock
[10:33] Speaker 1: Hard for Doug hello as well. And with that, let
[10:37] Speaker 1: me grab our first guest. Welcome in, Justin. Can you
[10:45] Speaker 1: hear me? I can't hear you. I suspect you can
[10:54] Speaker 1: hear me, though. Let me see what's going on. Have
[11:00] Speaker 1: a microphone interesting. Let me let me double check some
[11:05] Speaker 1: make sure, make sure everything's set up properly. Although I
[11:10] Speaker 1: didn't nothing's changed. But you know, what are you gonna do?
[11:13] Speaker 1: What are you gonna do them?
[11:16] Speaker 3: Uh?
[11:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it should be, it should be picked.
[11:19] Speaker 1: Maybe my audio is not turned on. Let me make
[11:21] Speaker 1: sure my audio is turned on, although I pretty sure
[11:23] Speaker 1: it is. Can can we get a friendly jump in
[11:28] Speaker 1: the YouTube? Guest Q? Real quick, We'll double check it,
[11:30] Speaker 1: make sure everything works before I before I before, I
[11:37] Speaker 1: suggest that maybe Justin's got some hardware issues. The other Justin.
[11:43] Speaker 1: There's two justins now me and and the guest. But yeah,
[11:48] Speaker 1: for some reason, it's not showing when you talked. It's
[11:50] Speaker 1: not showing. There's no bars on your screen showing that
[11:53] Speaker 1: you're talking. So I don't know if you selected the
[11:57] Speaker 1: wrong hardware or what's going on with your equipment. Your
[12:00] Speaker 1: connection is also really bad, like it's super super choppy,
[12:04] Speaker 1: and you've got three red bars. So it might just
[12:07] Speaker 1: be that your connection is so poor that the audio
[12:09] Speaker 1: is not transmitting. That's certainly a possibility. I don't even
[12:14] Speaker 1: see you on the screen, which is really interesting. I
[12:19] Speaker 1: should see you on my screen right about now.
[12:22] Speaker 2: Hold on.
[12:25] Speaker 1: There we go. Oh boy, oh boy. All right, well,
[12:31] Speaker 1: well he dropped and I think he's reloading, so we'll
[12:33] Speaker 1: give him a second here real quick and see if
[12:36] Speaker 1: we can get this working. Of course, that could be
[12:41] Speaker 1: my audio. All right, Rock and River, one second. Let
[12:52] Speaker 1: me see what the situation is here. I literally didn't
[13:05] Speaker 1: change anything. This is the craziest thing about my setup.
[13:08] Speaker 1: I literally didn't change shit. Nothing's changed with my setup.
[13:12] Speaker 1: Not a damn thing has changed with my setup. Literally,
[13:15] Speaker 1: all they did was restart my computer from the last
[13:18] Speaker 1: time I used it, and now nothing works. All right,
[13:20] Speaker 1: hold on, Rock and River, I mean everything should be
[13:45] Speaker 1: set up in working, Rock and River. If you're talking,
[13:48] Speaker 1: I can't hear you and I can't see you on
[13:50] Speaker 1: the screen for some reason. What a weird What a
[13:53] Speaker 1: weird situation. Let me just readd this stupid link and
[14:03] Speaker 1: see if that, uh that fixes it? Might add somebody
[14:09] Speaker 1: else at the same time too.
[14:13] Speaker 4: Here we go.
[14:13] Speaker 1: I added it added to justin this time to the screen, justin.
[14:18] Speaker 1: I don't know if I'll be able to hear you
[14:19] Speaker 1: when you talk yet, though, for some reason, I might
[14:23] Speaker 1: getting any audio over from Hold on? What about now?
[14:33] Speaker 1: Now I'm not getting none. I'm not getting audio from
[14:35] Speaker 1: none of y'all. I can't hear Rock and I can't
[14:47] Speaker 1: hear Justin. Neither one of y'all I can hear. It's ridiculous, ridiculous. Yeah,
[14:53] Speaker 1: I know, yeah, everyone TikTok sa in you can't hear. Yeah,
[14:56] Speaker 1: I know you can't hear. If I can't hear him,
[15:00] Speaker 1: I don't think y'all can hear him. Although the question
[15:02] Speaker 1: is why. I don't know why. I don't know why.
[15:05] Speaker 1: No one can hear either way. You know, these are
[15:10] Speaker 1: these are the trials we face. Uh. Let me need
[15:14] Speaker 1: to say a prayer to Doug, you know, and have
[15:19] Speaker 1: Doug sort this out for us. And also, Michael, thank
[15:24] Speaker 1: you so much for sending a fifty dollars super thanks
[15:26] Speaker 1: big w Michael, I really appreciate that. That's super generous.
[15:31] Speaker 1: All Right, Justin's back again. See if we can get
[15:33] Speaker 1: Justin back. All right, Justin, you're on the screen. I'm
[15:38] Speaker 1: trying to see if the audio will pick you up though. Yeah,
[15:44] Speaker 1: Rock and River says you're talking. No one can hear
[15:46] Speaker 1: your Rock and River. I don't know why. Uh, And
[15:51] Speaker 1: I'm opening the audio settings. It says you have a
[15:53] Speaker 1: microphone plugged in justin, but there is no audio being
[15:58] Speaker 1: fed through. Let me just read. I'm going to restart
[16:01] Speaker 1: my waiting room. Hold on, I don't know. It shouldn't
[16:06] Speaker 1: I mean, it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't change anything, but
[16:10] Speaker 1: just in case. Okay, I restarted the deconstruction waiting room.
[16:23] Speaker 1: Let's see if that takes care of it. I will
[16:29] Speaker 1: try it again now justin let's see if we can
[16:31] Speaker 1: get anything. Of course not. I'm just going to join
[16:35] Speaker 1: on my phone and see if it's your guys' equipment
[16:38] Speaker 1: or my equipment, because it's kind of silly. One second.
[16:46] Speaker 1: Oh boy, all right, what's my name? Justin number three? Okay,
[16:53] Speaker 1: join with camera? Yeah yeah, audio source, uh huh. I'm
[17:01] Speaker 1: gonna see if this works. Okay, when I talk, Oh
[17:09] Speaker 1: there you go. When I talked through this, im.
[17:14] Speaker 4: I ad myself.
[17:21] Speaker 5: Crazy.
[17:22] Speaker 1: So my we're talking talking my phone right now. I
[17:27] Speaker 1: see everyone can hear me talking talking phone into vitting engine.
[17:34] Speaker 1: So so that's just perspect it works. Let me let
[17:38] Speaker 1: me you hear me hear me? I can, I can
[17:41] Speaker 1: hear me. If if y'all can hear me, the echo
[17:44] Speaker 1: should be fixed. I had some had some stuff going on. Also, also,
[17:50] Speaker 1: this is MICA's doing. So I've got two mics. Yeah,
[17:53] Speaker 1: it's because I've got two microphones happening right now. But yeah, yeah, y'all,
[17:57] Speaker 1: y'all can hear me? Okay, So the problem is with
[17:59] Speaker 1: your all equipment, not with mine. Hold on, all right,
[18:10] Speaker 1: we'll see if this works germs. Can you hear me?
[18:18] Speaker 4: Yeah, I can hear you can hear me?
[18:20] Speaker 6: All right?
[18:21] Speaker 1: Hold on, I can hear you. Can everyone else hear you?
[18:29] Speaker 1: Can you introduce yourself?
[18:30] Speaker 7: Jeram Ah, I'm Jeremy. I was actually I'm a friendly.
[18:34] Speaker 7: I was just hopping in to help you test your equipment, so.
[18:37] Speaker 1: I thought, so, yeah, I really appreciate that. So your
[18:39] Speaker 1: equipment is working, right, So when when you talk, I
[18:43] Speaker 1: can hear you when you talk, I think everyone else
[18:45] Speaker 1: can hear you. Uh. So that means the problem must
[18:49] Speaker 1: be on Justin's and not this, not this justin the
[18:53] Speaker 1: other Justine they get in here. Okay, I think I
[18:57] Speaker 1: didn't change anything. This should just work.
[19:00] Speaker 7: No, I'm just on my AirPods in my MacBook, so
[19:03] Speaker 7: it's working fine for me.
[19:07] Speaker 1: That's the craziest thing. Yeah, okay, well, listen, I really
[19:09] Speaker 1: appreciate you helped me sort this out just to make sure.
[19:14] Speaker 1: I don't know what was going on with that guys'
[19:15] Speaker 1: is connection or hardware, but apparently it just wasn't up
[19:19] Speaker 1: just enough.
[19:21] Speaker 7: While I'm here, I wanted to say thanks for all
[19:22] Speaker 7: the content you do. I'm the one who was just
[19:24] Speaker 7: posted about the NRSV on his way.
[19:27] Speaker 1: I thought, so, yeah, listen, I appreciate you watching and
[19:31] Speaker 1: supporting the channel, and I really hope that you enjoyed.
[19:33] Speaker 1: The NRSV fifth Edition is a really good addition. And
[19:38] Speaker 1: I think of what you'll discover is that, you know,
[19:41] Speaker 1: most of the academic study notes in this Bible are
[19:44] Speaker 1: going to look roughly nothing like what most apologists are saying, because,
[19:49] Speaker 1: as it turns out, there's a reason there's a reason
[19:52] Speaker 1: why there's not a lot of scholars doing apologist stuff,
[19:56] Speaker 1: and it's obviously because the data doesn't you know.
[20:01] Speaker 7: So yeah, I mean I was I deconstructed when I
[20:06] Speaker 7: was going to Baylor University, and the more I learned,
[20:10] Speaker 7: the more I read the Bible a little more, I.
[20:12] Speaker 5: Was like, this is complete nonsense, this makes no sense.
[20:15] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's that's the time to do it. That's
[20:17] Speaker 1: the time to deconstruct and Baylor, for the most part,
[20:21] Speaker 1: is a pretty decent school, like you're gonna get an
[20:24] Speaker 1: adequate education there, so I'm not surprised that it ended
[20:30] Speaker 1: in deconstruction.
[20:33] Speaker 6: Yep.
[20:34] Speaker 7: All right, Well I'll hop off and let you get
[20:36] Speaker 7: a guest in here if you want.
[20:38] Speaker 1: Hey, thanks so much, it's great to hear from you man,
[20:40] Speaker 1: and big W on deconstructing. It's not easy, but you
[20:43] Speaker 1: did it, so big kudos to you. All right, Thanks cheers, friend,
[20:52] Speaker 1: a big w for deconstructing on your own. It's not
[20:56] Speaker 1: an easy feat. It's not something that like it just happens,
[21:01] Speaker 1: so yeah, big w. Especially, I would say though, while
[21:06] Speaker 1: you're at school, that's when it's most likely to happen.
[21:09] Speaker 1: Because the goal in a lot of these higher educational
[21:12] Speaker 1: institutions they want to make you think about what you believe.
[21:17] Speaker 1: They don't want you to believe it just because I
[21:20] Speaker 1: know that there are some educational institutions that disagree. They
[21:23] Speaker 1: would love for you to believe it with no reason,
[21:29] Speaker 1: but the good ones don't. If you go to like
[21:33] Speaker 1: Liberty Liberty, yeah, they're going to engage in some goofy apologetics.
[21:37] Speaker 1: Or if you go to like Bob Jones, university, you're
[21:39] Speaker 1: going to get goofy apologetics. But if you go to
[21:42] Speaker 1: a real university or a real seminary, you're not going
[21:45] Speaker 1: to get that apologetic nonsense. You may get a little
[21:48] Speaker 1: bit a little bit of it at like Trinity. Trinity
[21:53] Speaker 1: does a little bit of apologetics. But whatever, they're reformed,
[21:57] Speaker 1: what do you do in your reform? You have to
[22:01] Speaker 1: do apologizes because you have to justify this predestination garbage. Anyways,
[22:06] Speaker 1: the guest box is open. If you're watching on a YouTube,
[22:10] Speaker 1: there's a link in the description. If you don't have
[22:13] Speaker 1: access to the description of the video and you're watching
[22:16] Speaker 1: on TikTok, there's a link up topic you can use
[22:18] Speaker 1: to join. It's a third party app. You don't have
[22:21] Speaker 1: to sign up for anything. I don't need your email,
[22:23] Speaker 1: you don't have to make an account. It's a TinyURL,
[22:26] Speaker 1: dot com forward slash guest dz. You can jump right
[22:29] Speaker 1: into the conversation and you can tell me how wrong
[22:33] Speaker 1: I am. You can tell me all about your God
[22:35] Speaker 1: and how your God is super super real and not imaginary.
[22:40] Speaker 1: We'd love to hear about that. And doctor Pizza, thank
[22:44] Speaker 1: you so much for the superchat. Doctor Pizza says I
[22:46] Speaker 1: hope they put you in a good hotel. Traveling for
[22:48] Speaker 1: work sucks, Prace. It's not my favorite thing.
[22:51] Speaker 3: You know.
[22:52] Speaker 1: I enjoyed it when I was twenty. I don't enjoy
[22:54] Speaker 1: it as much at my current age. I'd rather just
[22:56] Speaker 1: be home. But yes, they're taking care of me. I'm, I'm, I'm.
[23:00] Speaker 1: We'll take care of on the road. I appreciate the sentiment,
[23:04] Speaker 1: doctor Pizza. If you are going to have to get
[23:06] Speaker 1: stuck traveling for work, obviously you want to be in
[23:08] Speaker 1: a decent you want to be a decent hotel. All right,
[23:13] Speaker 1: welcome back, Justin.
[23:15] Speaker 3: Hi, can you hear me?
[23:17] Speaker 1: Yeah? Work it works now. Your connection is kind of sloppy,
[23:19] Speaker 1: but it works.
[23:21] Speaker 8: Yeah.
[23:21] Speaker 3: I'm trying to get hooked up to Wi Fi right now.
[23:24] Speaker 9: It should be speeding up Paris.
[23:26] Speaker 1: Definitely hook into Fi.
[23:29] Speaker 10: Yeah, I'm doing that now.
[23:34] Speaker 5: Anyway, we'll help.
[23:38] Speaker 1: Good. How are you doing, Justin? Are you a believer?
[23:43] Speaker 3: I am not a believer? Freshly freshly out of belief?
[23:47] Speaker 1: Well, I mean, welcome to rationality, friend.
[23:52] Speaker 3: Right exactly. It was actually much thanks to your videos
[23:55] Speaker 3: that that has been the case. So, yeah, it's been hard,
[24:00] Speaker 3: it's been it's been a rough go because my entire
[24:02] Speaker 3: family is all very devout. But I just couldn't quite
[24:06] Speaker 3: handle it anymore.
[24:07] Speaker 1: I get it. Yeah, I mean my family's pretty devout
[24:11] Speaker 1: as well, although I would say they're pretty down to earth,
[24:13] Speaker 1: and they didn't you know, I didn't get harassed or
[24:15] Speaker 1: anything like that over it. But yeah, when when you're
[24:19] Speaker 1: all your family they're all believers, then it's difficult to
[24:23] Speaker 1: come out and be like, hey, I actually don't think
[24:26] Speaker 1: that this all is adding up.
[24:29] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[24:29] Speaker 3: Well, it was funny because I started with my looking
[24:33] Speaker 3: into the Old Testament, mainly because I was thinking about
[24:36] Speaker 3: actually pursuing a career in religion, and about two months
[24:41] Speaker 3: in of my research and reading the Old Testament and
[24:43] Speaker 3: watching videos, and I was just, man, all this sounds
[24:47] Speaker 3: like garbage. This guy sounds like a monster. And yeah,
[24:52] Speaker 3: the more I read, the more that was just rooted
[24:54] Speaker 3: into reality. So yeah, yeah, it's rough. That's horrible.
[25:00] Speaker 1: Pleasant.
[25:01] Speaker 3: No, it's not pleasant to them all at all. And
[25:03] Speaker 3: it's really funny when you when I hear like my
[25:05] Speaker 3: wife and in my family and her family mostly talk
[25:09] Speaker 3: about God, I'm like, man, are we reading the same Bible?
[25:11] Speaker 3: It doesn't make any sense.
[25:13] Speaker 1: You're definitely not reading the same Bible.
[25:16] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's incredible. So yeah, I thought maybe it
[25:19] Speaker 3: was a translation issue. So I read two different translations,
[25:22] Speaker 3: ended up with the NRFV, and because I heard that
[25:26] Speaker 3: was the one that was used in seminary, So I figured, man,
[25:28] Speaker 3: maybe I'm just just reading this stupid thing. But no,
[25:31] Speaker 3: and then they say, well, you got to read the
[25:32] Speaker 3: New Testament. I'm like, well, you don't have a New
[25:34] Speaker 3: Testament without the Old so you can't just skip steps here.
[25:38] Speaker 3: We have to actually know who this God is. But no,
[25:43] Speaker 3: a lot of the Christians that I hear now they
[25:45] Speaker 3: just want to hear about the New Testament. But I
[25:48] Speaker 3: can't even believe the New Testament if the Old Testament
[25:50] Speaker 3: is full of that garbage.
[25:52] Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean I agree with you, like full stop.
[25:55] Speaker 1: If the Old Testament is full of nonsense, then I
[25:57] Speaker 1: have no reason to believe what it says. I don't
[26:02] Speaker 1: care that the New Testament said a thing if the
[26:04] Speaker 1: thing that it's based on is crazy true.
[26:08] Speaker 3: Yeah, So the reason why I jump on your live
[26:11] Speaker 3: not obviously you and I agree on post things. So
[26:14] Speaker 3: there's no point in really talking in there, because I mean,
[26:17] Speaker 3: you have people to actually debate with and that's good.
[26:19] Speaker 3: But the question is what is off that cheat sheet?
[26:22] Speaker 3: Because I was thinking about joining the subscription that I wasn't.
[26:25] Speaker 9: Sure what was on it.
[26:27] Speaker 1: There's a lot I can read off the tabs. The
[26:29] Speaker 1: first tab is labeled the worst Bits. It's just all
[26:33] Speaker 1: the worst parts of the Bible. The second tab are
[26:36] Speaker 1: biblical contradictions, and I've got like sixty seven of them.
[26:42] Speaker 1: The third tab is all on how the Apocrypha shows
[26:49] Speaker 1: up in the New Testament, and then there's a link
[26:52] Speaker 1: to an alternative document that shows every mention of the
[26:55] Speaker 1: apocryphal books by every church father for the first four
[26:58] Speaker 1: hundred years of the church. The third or fourth tab
[27:02] Speaker 1: is scientific errors. The next is anachronisms. The next is
[27:07] Speaker 1: all of the prophecies of Jesus in the in the
[27:11] Speaker 1: Gospels with refutations. Although that's like only ninety percent filled out.
[27:16] Speaker 1: I gotta give a couple more refutations. Another tab after
[27:20] Speaker 1: that is a list of failed prophecies from the Old Testament,
[27:23] Speaker 1: and then next is a tab full of refutations for
[27:27] Speaker 1: the omni properties of God. The next tab after that
[27:31] Speaker 1: is a list of like every known New Testament manuscript
[27:36] Speaker 1: that is, like before the fifth century in including a
[27:41] Speaker 1: chart as their distribution in time. Then I got a
[27:44] Speaker 1: tab on philosophy syllogisms against God. I've got a tab
[27:50] Speaker 1: against flat earth theory. Or I got a tab with
[27:53] Speaker 1: all the flat Earth Bible verses. There's an appendix with
[27:57] Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff in it. I mean, I got
[28:00] Speaker 1: a time timeline of the contradictions of the Passover. I've
[28:05] Speaker 1: got two timelines of the Empty Tomb contradictions. I've got
[28:09] Speaker 1: a tab dedicated to refuting the LDS claims, another tab
[28:14] Speaker 1: dedicated to every mention of Hell inside and outside of
[28:17] Speaker 1: the Bible in the relevant time periods, and just about it. Wow.
[28:23] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that would be definitely worth it, all right?
[28:26] Speaker 3: And how do I subscribe to that?
[28:28] Speaker 1: To get access to that, Yeah, just hit the join button.
[28:31] Speaker 1: Go to my YouTube page and hit the join button
[28:36] Speaker 1: the Crack and Crew. The first level will just get
[28:40] Speaker 1: you like all the fun emotes because not everybody wants
[28:42] Speaker 1: to cheat sheet. The second level gets you the cheat
[28:45] Speaker 1: sheet and the emotes, and there'll just be a link
[28:48] Speaker 1: once you join up.
[28:50] Speaker 3: Sweet All right, well cool man. Well, I want to
[28:53] Speaker 3: thank you for all you do because you help people
[28:55] Speaker 3: like me who are making the wrong decision and we
[28:57] Speaker 3: want to make the right one.
[28:58] Speaker 9: So thank you that.
[29:00] Speaker 1: Are Brom big w justin. Good to hear from you,
[29:02] Speaker 1: and thanks so much for watching the channel.
[29:05] Speaker 9: Absolutely, thank you Jews.
[29:09] Speaker 1: I have big big w for deconstructing and you know,
[29:13] Speaker 1: if I might add, had a nice name in Germ. Again,
[29:19] Speaker 1: good to see you. Thank you for the superchest says
[29:21] Speaker 1: it was nice chatting those talking about the Korean flag.
[29:25] Speaker 1: My Korean soldiers signed it from me when I served
[29:28] Speaker 1: over there in the army. Oh wow. Interesting. I just
[29:30] Speaker 1: had a conversation recently over the holiday with somebody who
[29:35] Speaker 1: served in Korea, and we don't get to talk about
[29:39] Speaker 1: the Korean War all that much. It doesn't really come up.
[29:42] Speaker 1: I would love to actually meet some more people that
[29:44] Speaker 1: were in the Korean War that could tell me about
[29:47] Speaker 1: their experience, because I feel like you hear a little
[29:49] Speaker 1: bit about Vietnam. You here obviously about World War Two,
[29:51] Speaker 1: but no one really talks about the Korean War. But man,
[29:54] Speaker 1: a lot of people were involved in the Korean War.
[29:57] Speaker 1: And Marcus, thank you for the supertest, says, is there
[29:59] Speaker 1: any way you could talk about the curse of Ham.
[30:01] Speaker 1: I'm having trouble finding sources I trust to further understand it.
[30:05] Speaker 1: So the curse of Ham is really simple. It shows
[30:07] Speaker 1: up in Genesis chapter nine when Ham does some sort
[30:11] Speaker 1: of unspeakable thing to his father. Theoretically, now, my reading
[30:17] Speaker 1: of the passage, in parallel with the fact that it
[30:19] Speaker 1: was probably written around the same time as Leviticus, is
[30:22] Speaker 1: that when it says he uncovered his father's nakedness, it
[30:25] Speaker 1: actually is referring to sleeping with his mother in Livigus.
[30:31] Speaker 1: In Leviticus it talks about how if you uncover the
[30:33] Speaker 1: nakedness of a married woman, you actually uncover the nakedness
[30:36] Speaker 1: of her husband. So if you uncover the nakedness of
[30:39] Speaker 1: your mother, you actually uncover the nakedness of your father,
[30:42] Speaker 1: because her nakedness is his nakedness. And you might ask yourself,
[30:46] Speaker 1: why would he sleep with his own mother? I think
[30:48] Speaker 1: this is very clear. He was trying to set a
[30:50] Speaker 1: new social hierarchy, now that everybody in the world was
[30:54] Speaker 1: dead and it was just them. He was doing what
[30:56] Speaker 1: Absalom did to his father. He slept with his father's wives,
[31:00] Speaker 1: the same thing that Rubin did to his father. He
[31:03] Speaker 1: slept with one of his father's wives. This it's a
[31:07] Speaker 1: power move right now. That's my reading of the text.
[31:11] Speaker 1: I think there's two layers to the story in Genesis nine.
[31:14] Speaker 1: I think there's an older layer and a newer layer.
[31:17] Speaker 1: I think the newer layer is there to make sense
[31:20] Speaker 1: of the passage that didn't understand it in light of Aliviticus.
[31:26] Speaker 1: But that being said, the long and short of it
[31:29] Speaker 1: is I think that he had sex with his mother,
[31:32] Speaker 1: which is why there was the curse. Ham was never
[31:35] Speaker 1: cursed in Genesis nine. It was actually his son, Canaan
[31:39] Speaker 1: who was cursed. I might ask yourself, well, why was
[31:41] Speaker 1: Canaan cursed if in fact Ham committed the sin? Well,
[31:45] Speaker 1: if in fact he slept with his mother in created offspring,
[31:50] Speaker 1: then it would be presumed that the offspring of that
[31:53] Speaker 1: incestuous union would be cursed the same way the offspring
[31:58] Speaker 1: of Lot and his two daughters were cursed. And so
[32:01] Speaker 1: Ham gave birth to a terrible lineage of people theoretically
[32:07] Speaker 1: that were cursed. And so this is the excuse for
[32:10] Speaker 1: why they're allowed to genocide the Canaanite. Theoretically. Now you
[32:14] Speaker 1: could say, well, listen, it sounds like whatever he did,
[32:16] Speaker 1: he did it to Noah. And you certainly could have
[32:18] Speaker 1: that viewpoint, but then you have to come up with
[32:20] Speaker 1: a reason why he cursed Canaan rather than Ham. Although
[32:25] Speaker 1: we've seen quite a few times like an Exodus thirty
[32:27] Speaker 1: four to seven, where God openly brags about visiting the
[32:31] Speaker 1: iniquities of the father upon the children and their children's children,
[32:35] Speaker 1: so certainly as possible that God it was like, well,
[32:37] Speaker 1: Ham fucked up. I'll punish everybody from his lineage because
[32:41] Speaker 1: of what Ham did. And that's perfectly in keeping with
[32:44] Speaker 1: what yahweh tends to do. There's nothing weird or out
[32:48] Speaker 1: of step. But let me grab one or two more
[32:51] Speaker 1: super chants. We'll get our We got another guest in
[32:53] Speaker 1: the box, fix it. Welcome to the Crack and Crew
[32:55] Speaker 1: Elite and a mirror. Good to see your friend, thank
[32:58] Speaker 1: you for sending out a DZ gifted membership, and Alex,
[33:03] Speaker 1: thank you so much for this. Oh, our guest dis draped.
[33:05] Speaker 1: I guess he didn't want to talk, Alex, thank you
[33:07] Speaker 1: for the super chat. It says curious might have Paul
[33:11] Speaker 1: said not to follow the law since he thought the
[33:13] Speaker 1: world was ending, given Jesus said it would end then
[33:17] Speaker 1: and he was coming back soon, so you're not wrong
[33:21] Speaker 1: in First Corinthians and in First Thessalonians, it's pretty clear
[33:25] Speaker 1: that Paul is under the impression that the world is
[33:28] Speaker 1: ending soon. In fact, he says, don't even marry if
[33:31] Speaker 1: you are married, live as though you're not married. And
[33:34] Speaker 1: Jesus himself said in Matthew chapter nineteen that it's better
[33:38] Speaker 1: to be a eunuch for the sake of the gospel.
[33:41] Speaker 1: So we definitely have this idea from the Bible that
[33:43] Speaker 1: the world is about to end and you should dedicate
[33:46] Speaker 1: everything to the to the gospel. But in accordance with
[33:50] Speaker 1: the law. My reading, my understanding of Paul is that
[33:53] Speaker 1: he probably wanted to get rid of the law because
[33:55] Speaker 1: it was the greatest barrier to bringing in the gentiles.
[33:58] Speaker 1: I feel like, if you're trying to bring gentile into
[34:00] Speaker 1: the fold, what's going to be the biggest setback They're
[34:04] Speaker 1: going to be like, I'm not going to follow these laws?
[34:05] Speaker 1: Is crazy?
[34:07] Speaker 4: Right?
[34:08] Speaker 1: So my personally, my personal opinion, I think Paul was
[34:11] Speaker 1: just trying to get rid of that that hurdle and
[34:15] Speaker 1: move the movement forward without that hurdle. And Origin agrees.
[34:20] Speaker 1: Actually in some other early church fathers agree that Jesus
[34:25] Speaker 1: was a Judaizer. It wasn't until later that there seems
[34:30] Speaker 1: to be a movement to get rid of these laws.
[34:34] Speaker 1: All right, let's get our guesting here. Looks like is
[34:37] Speaker 1: it David? David?
[34:45] Speaker 4: David?
[34:45] Speaker 1: Did you did you accidentally request up? Hello? Ohla como style?
[35:01] Speaker 11: No?
[35:01] Speaker 2: Okay?
[35:02] Speaker 1: All right, well David, if you figure out how technology works,
[35:07] Speaker 1: come on back and we'll get you plugged into the conversation.
[35:11] Speaker 1: And you know, I'd love to talk to you. I'm
[35:15] Speaker 1: gonna drop you down now, though I suspect to, just
[35:17] Speaker 1: because your connection is bad too. People, friends, if you're
[35:23] Speaker 1: if you're gonna request up, just join the Wi Fi network.
[35:27] Speaker 1: Don't don't use your cell phone reception. It's not I mean,
[35:31] Speaker 1: you can do it that way, but I would I
[35:33] Speaker 1: wouldn't recommend it unless you turn your video off. It
[35:35] Speaker 1: really makes the connection laggy. His connection might actually work
[35:39] Speaker 1: if he just turned his video off where he joined
[35:41] Speaker 1: via Wi Fi. Decal Den, thank you so much for
[35:45] Speaker 1: the five hour super Chest says rereading the Bible, highlighting
[35:49] Speaker 1: the problems just based on my own thoughts, going to
[35:51] Speaker 1: need a lifetime supply of markers. Every page looks like
[35:55] Speaker 1: a rainbow. Yeah, yeah, I mean listen. The first time
[35:59] Speaker 1: I did it, I had an atheist friend. I was
[36:01] Speaker 1: still a Christian and I was engaging in some minor apologetics,
[36:04] Speaker 1: and an atheist friend that says, justin like, you're starting
[36:07] Speaker 1: with the opinion that the Bible is true, and then
[36:10] Speaker 1: it's up for everybody else to disprove it. He goes,
[36:13] Speaker 1: just be honest, go to the beginning of the Bible,
[36:15] Speaker 1: read it as though you're not already a Christian, And
[36:17] Speaker 1: every time you read something that's weird or out of place,
[36:21] Speaker 1: just ask yourself, does this make sense? And is it true?
[36:24] Speaker 1: And I did, and it turns out there's a lot
[36:27] Speaker 1: of stuff in there that like I couldn't like, I
[36:30] Speaker 1: could only say that I believe it's true. I certainly
[36:33] Speaker 1: couldn't prove that it's true. I have to take it
[36:35] Speaker 1: on faith. And there's a lot of problems as well
[36:39] Speaker 1: that you run into that as an apologist you would
[36:42] Speaker 1: make excuses for, but as a normal human being you wouldn't, Like,
[36:45] Speaker 1: you wouldn't make excuses for slavery and grape and genocide
[36:49] Speaker 1: and different things like that. All right, Pokemon David David, Okay,
[37:02] Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on with David. Apparently he's
[37:05] Speaker 1: having party over there, but I don't think I'm gonna
[37:07] Speaker 1: love him having a party on my stream. Marcus coming
[37:11] Speaker 1: in with a ten hour super chat, I thinks, Marcus,
[37:13] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Referring to Canaan again, it says is
[37:16] Speaker 1: a punishment for Canaan, the darkening of his skin. I've
[37:19] Speaker 1: interpreted as he raisedst story, and I just want to
[37:22] Speaker 1: make sure that's not the wrong reading that. Unfortunately, that
[37:25] Speaker 1: is the wrong reading, Marcus. So the reason why people
[37:29] Speaker 1: think that the curse of Ham specifically is to be
[37:32] Speaker 1: dark is goad. When you look at the table of
[37:34] Speaker 1: nations that come later, it seems as though Ham and
[37:40] Speaker 1: his descendants go south, they descend into Africa, and then
[37:46] Speaker 1: people later came and said, oh, well, well Ham was
[37:50] Speaker 1: cursed and Haim is the source of all these dark
[37:53] Speaker 1: people from Africa. Therefore it's okay to enslave the Africans.
[37:57] Speaker 1: That's where that whole nonsense is coming from. In reality,
[38:01] Speaker 1: we know that's not the case. People came out of
[38:03] Speaker 1: Africa and popularly the rest of the world, not the
[38:05] Speaker 1: other way around. They didn't start in you know, the
[38:10] Speaker 1: ancient Eur East, you know around Mount Ara Rat and
[38:13] Speaker 1: this eventually spread out and then go down into Africa.
[38:16] Speaker 1: That's utterly ridiculous. But that's the other part of the
[38:20] Speaker 1: Curse of Ham that you're probably referring to, is how
[38:22] Speaker 1: they came up with that racist talking point. It's just
[38:25] Speaker 1: because where he migrated afterwards. But anyways, the guest box
[38:29] Speaker 1: is open friends. Anyone who wants to dissent and prove
[38:33] Speaker 1: that their God is really you're more than welcome to
[38:36] Speaker 1: do it. The link is on the screen. You don't
[38:38] Speaker 1: have to sign up for anything. And Adam says, I'm
[38:42] Speaker 1: sure you've been asked. But have you seen Righteous Gemstones
[38:46] Speaker 1: working at and playing music at megachurches? It's embarrassing. How
[38:50] Speaker 1: accurate is I actually haven't seen it. I've watched one
[38:55] Speaker 1: or two of the documentaries coming out about like these
[38:59] Speaker 1: mega church is falling apart and failing, so if that's
[39:03] Speaker 1: a real thing that's happened. I was watching the one
[39:06] Speaker 1: about Justin Bieber's ex pastor. That was pretty good. I
[39:11] Speaker 1: watched another one about Hillsong falling apart. So there's some
[39:21] Speaker 1: good documentaries out there, but I haven't seen Righteous Gemstones yet.
[39:25] Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to put that on my two do list.
[39:28] Speaker 1: Definitely appreciate the suggestion and con thank you for the
[39:33] Speaker 1: super chest, says Justice Frayiesha agreed a million percent. Justice
[39:37] Speaker 1: Fraisha and Helen Kimball, the youngest wife of Joseph Smith.
[39:41] Speaker 1: I did not know about Helen, so Helen Kimball, the
[39:45] Speaker 1: youngest wife of Joseph Smith, her account of being sold
[39:48] Speaker 1: to the prophet by her father at fourteen his heartbreaking.
[39:51] Speaker 1: Oh that really breaks my heart. Actually, I didn't know
[39:58] Speaker 1: that there was a child bride that wrote about it
[40:01] Speaker 1: inside of Mormonism. That's crazy. I'm gonna have to look
[40:05] Speaker 1: that up. If you know any good video resources too,
[40:08] Speaker 1: like on YouTube or anything like that, shoot me a
[40:10] Speaker 1: message on the discord or in my email. I definitely
[40:14] Speaker 1: need to search this up and get more on top
[40:16] Speaker 1: of this because this is like really kind of a
[40:19] Speaker 1: big deal if one of his child brides is like
[40:23] Speaker 1: legit out here talking about it or was a Jim Nasty.
[40:28] Speaker 1: Good to see your friend. Thank you for the fight.
[40:29] Speaker 1: Our supertet says I've been seeing more Eastern Orthodox Christians
[40:32] Speaker 1: on TikTok lately. What's your take on them. I'm not
[40:34] Speaker 1: really familiar with their brand of looney. Well, to me,
[40:38] Speaker 1: like they're just a more annoying form of Catholicism, Like
[40:45] Speaker 1: they engage in more of the Philoco babble than the
[40:48] Speaker 1: Catholics do. But it's not that much different. Like if
[40:51] Speaker 1: you're familiar with Catholicism, then you'll recognize a lot of
[40:54] Speaker 1: what Eastern Orthodox has to have to offer. There are
[40:57] Speaker 1: obviously some differences, for sure, but I don't find them
[41:01] Speaker 1: to be terribly different. The structure of the services are
[41:05] Speaker 1: a little bit different. The last Orthodox church I went
[41:08] Speaker 1: to had a two hour standard service. But listen, I mean,
[41:14] Speaker 1: if you've never been to an Orthodox church, if is
[41:16] Speaker 1: just find some free time and go, uh, it'd be
[41:19] Speaker 1: a learning experience. But yeah, to me, I think they're,
[41:24] Speaker 1: you know, kind of a different flavor of Catholicism. Although
[41:29] Speaker 1: the Orthodox and the Catholic would disagree with me vehemently,
[41:32] Speaker 1: but if you're coming from a Protestant background, you would
[41:35] Speaker 1: definitely see the connection. Let's get our next guest in here.
[41:41] Speaker 1: How you doing, Judy ju to Your connection is pretty
[41:48] Speaker 1: jud your connection is pretty poor. Can you connect with
[41:51] Speaker 1: the Wi Fi? Judy, I have?
[42:00] Speaker 10: I'm hooked to the WiFi?
[42:02] Speaker 1: Oh? Is it dial up? Mm hmmm mmm mm hmm. Yeah,
[42:20] Speaker 1: it's really bad. You got really bad connection, my friend
[42:26] Speaker 1: that I can't hear a word you're saying.
[42:35] Speaker 10: Yeah, two of your mum.
[42:43] Speaker 1: Hum, ju Judy, my friend, I can't and you just
[42:47] Speaker 1: dropped okay, uh, Judy, your your connection is not good.
[42:51] Speaker 1: You you've you've dropped out. Your connection failed. Maybe refresh
[43:00] Speaker 1: your WiFi router and try again. How you do at Miles,
[43:08] Speaker 1: what's up?
[43:09] Speaker 5: Can you hear me?
[43:10] Speaker 1: Yeah? I can hear you. Yeah, and it sounds like
[43:13] Speaker 1: you actually have a decent connection, So welcome in.
[43:16] Speaker 4: Yes.
[43:16] Speaker 12: So basically I want, Miles, are you a believer?
[43:28] Speaker 4: Yes? I do believe in God, but under a certain
[43:30] Speaker 4: analytical criteria that would propose being existing in the first place.
[43:34] Speaker 4: So do you reject the idea of necessary being necessary
[43:37] Speaker 4: in the first place?
[43:38] Speaker 1: So do you have a specific name for the God
[43:40] Speaker 1: or is it just God? And is there like a.
[43:43] Speaker 4: A necessary being that's how we define it?
[43:45] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But does it have a name?
[43:48] Speaker 4: No, not necessarily, does it have a religion? But and
[43:51] Speaker 4: that's how we define a god. I would say that
[43:54] Speaker 4: that there's some sort of analytical criteria which would prove
[43:57] Speaker 4: that God's existence. Cool, does it have a religion? Sort of,
[44:04] Speaker 4: not necessarily, but I could eventually establish a religion with it.
[44:07] Speaker 1: What religion is it related to?
[44:09] Speaker 4: Probably Christianity? Okay, so you're a Christian, sure, But then
[44:14] Speaker 4: I also want to God exists in the first place. Yeah, sure,
[44:17] Speaker 4: I can just connect it to it, but that's not
[44:19] Speaker 4: necessarily the definition that the Christian God prescribes to.
[44:23] Speaker 1: It's crazy. So many filbros come up here and they
[44:25] Speaker 1: don't want to say what religion they're part of. It's
[44:26] Speaker 1: so weird to me that they do that. Yeah, but anyways,
[44:30] Speaker 1: do you have any I just usually I usually start
[44:33] Speaker 1: out with that. That's usually my starting point, like when
[44:36] Speaker 1: I was a Christian.
[44:39] Speaker 4: Yeah, but in order to establish a Christian God's consistence,
[44:41] Speaker 4: he would have to first affirm that there has to
[44:44] Speaker 4: be some sort of necessary being in existence in the
[44:46] Speaker 4: first place.
[44:47] Speaker 1: So give me premise number one for the existence of
[44:53] Speaker 1: a necessary deity.
[44:55] Speaker 4: Yeah, premise one is just going to be two contradictions
[44:57] Speaker 4: cannot exist in the same world. Do you agree with that?
[45:01] Speaker 1: I don't have a reason to not agree with it.
[45:04] Speaker 1: I think the idea of a contradiction, I can't seem
[45:09] Speaker 1: to find one that exists, So I'm definitely willing to
[45:13] Speaker 1: hold that contradictions probably shouldn't or couldn't exist.
[45:18] Speaker 4: Yeah, So if it's the case that contraditions cannot occur,
[45:20] Speaker 4: then it's all it's going to follow that there must
[45:21] Speaker 4: be a system which substantiates that statement being true, and
[45:24] Speaker 4: I'll just label that as God because that system has
[45:26] Speaker 4: to exist in all possible worlds.
[45:28] Speaker 1: I disagree. So when you say a system, you're essentially
[45:31] Speaker 1: saying that there is something governing the ability for contradictions
[45:36] Speaker 1: to either exist or do not exist. I don't believe
[45:38] Speaker 1: that to be the case. I think when we use
[45:41] Speaker 1: the laws of logic, we're referring to how the universe behaves,
[45:45] Speaker 1: not the system that causes it to behave that way.
[45:49] Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just talking about an enable or something that
[45:51] Speaker 4: would just enable some sort of statement being true, Like toomuch.
[45:54] Speaker 1: What does it need enabled?
[45:56] Speaker 4: Yeah, because if it wasn't going to be enabled, then
[45:58] Speaker 4: it would be possible. Right, I asked Bill, logically possibility
[46:00] Speaker 4: of a contradiction occurring? Right, I'm asking possible for I'm
[46:03] Speaker 4: asking why did the logically possible world? So there has
[46:06] Speaker 4: to be some sort of enabl or for that statement
[46:08] Speaker 4: to be true in all the possible worlds, which would
[46:10] Speaker 4: just be necessary.
[46:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, I disagree. My question was why does contradictions not
[46:16] Speaker 1: existing require an enable or causing that to be the case.
[46:20] Speaker 4: Yeah, I already answered this once again. If there is
[46:23] Speaker 4: some sort of contradiction that can occur, then it's going
[46:26] Speaker 4: to be the case that statement's going to be false.
[46:28] Speaker 4: And the only way to ensure that contradictions cannot occur
[46:31] Speaker 4: in any logically possible world is going to be through
[46:33] Speaker 4: some sort of system which enables that statement be true.
[46:36] Speaker 1: And didn't answer my question. So what I'm saying is
[46:39] Speaker 1: that the laws of logic are prescriptive, not descriptive, like
[46:43] Speaker 1: we're describing the way that the universe behaves, and just
[46:46] Speaker 1: happens to be that the universe doesn't really seem to
[46:49] Speaker 1: contain any contradiction. Now, quantum physics might disagree with that,
[46:52] Speaker 1: and some of them already have, but I'm not a
[46:54] Speaker 1: quantum physicist. As far as I can tell, in logic, right,
[46:58] Speaker 1: we don't see contradictions. That being said, I have no
[47:02] Speaker 1: reason to believe that there's something that causes logic to
[47:06] Speaker 1: function in that particular way, like some sort of external
[47:09] Speaker 1: entity that is forcing the laws of logic to conform
[47:14] Speaker 1: the way that they behave. I'm trying to figure out
[47:17] Speaker 1: why I would believe in something that's causing these laws
[47:21] Speaker 1: to behave that way.
[47:22] Speaker 4: Yeah, because if the laws then have some sort of foundation,
[47:24] Speaker 4: then it's going to be the case that they aren't
[47:26] Speaker 4: going to be enforced.
[47:27] Speaker 1: Well, they're not laws, that's the point. That's my whole
[47:29] Speaker 1: point is that the laws of logic are descriptive, not prescripted,
[47:32] Speaker 1: so they don't need enforced. So they are just things
[47:35] Speaker 1: that describe the world, right, I said it three times?
[47:38] Speaker 3: Yep.
[47:39] Speaker 4: Yeah, if they're just things that describe the world, and
[47:42] Speaker 4: it's going to be the traditions can occur in the
[47:45] Speaker 4: logically possible, with some sort of possible world, so that
[47:48] Speaker 4: we don't have the ability to conceive of.
[47:50] Speaker 1: Well, obviously, if you're talking about worlds that we can't
[47:52] Speaker 1: conceive of, I can't make any claims about those worlds.
[47:55] Speaker 1: I'm talking about the world that we live in, and
[47:57] Speaker 1: as far as we know, in the world that we
[47:59] Speaker 1: live in, contradictions don't seem to exist. But that seems
[48:03] Speaker 1: to be just the way the universe universe behaves. What
[48:06] Speaker 1: I'd like to know is why there needs to be
[48:09] Speaker 1: an external entity that's causing that behavior.
[48:15] Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't have to be external to the universe itself.
[48:17] Speaker 4: I'm just saying that there has to be some sort
[48:18] Speaker 4: of navel or in order for that statment to be true,
[48:20] Speaker 4: and I'm talking about logical possibility from the start. That
[48:22] Speaker 4: would just mean in all possible worlds, including one's other universes.
[48:26] Speaker 1: You haven't actually substantiated that claim yet, you just keep
[48:29] Speaker 1: restating the same claim over and over again. Why does
[48:32] Speaker 1: there need to be an enabler?
[48:35] Speaker 4: Yeah, because if it's a case that you already said
[48:38] Speaker 4: that two contradictions cannot occur in any possible world, you
[48:42] Speaker 4: don't have the ability to observe any other people. Wh
[48:44] Speaker 4: I didn't say that, So why would it be the
[48:45] Speaker 4: case that the laws of logic are just could be descriptive?
[48:48] Speaker 4: Said that?
[48:48] Speaker 1: I literally did not say that. I literally said, we
[48:50] Speaker 1: don't have the ability to know what's happening in other
[48:53] Speaker 1: worlds the universe itself. So what I said is, we
[48:56] Speaker 1: don't have the ability to investigate what happens in other
[48:58] Speaker 1: world's nerd we have him from about other worlds. We
[49:01] Speaker 1: only have information about the world that we actually live in.
[49:03] Speaker 1: So in the world that we live in, it seems
[49:06] Speaker 1: to be that contradictions can't or don't exist. You still
[49:10] Speaker 1: have failed to actually figure out how to answer my
[49:13] Speaker 1: question appropriately, which is, why is it that the way
[49:17] Speaker 1: the universe behaves we refer to that, you know, the
[49:21] Speaker 1: laws of logic as the descriptives of the universe. Why
[49:24] Speaker 1: do we need to presuppose that there is an entity
[49:27] Speaker 1: causing that to happen.
[49:30] Speaker 4: Yeah, this is just going to go back to premise one.
[49:32] Speaker 4: So the first thing is that you said Premise one
[49:35] Speaker 4: was two constructions can occur in any logically possible world.
[49:39] Speaker 4: Said that we don't have the guess that's literally what
[49:41] Speaker 4: premise one was.
[49:42] Speaker 1: I literally didn't say that. I said in the world
[49:44] Speaker 1: we know, right, I'm not talking about all logically possible worlds.
[49:48] Speaker 1: I'm saying in the world that we know, the one
[49:51] Speaker 1: that we exist in, it seems to be that logical
[49:55] Speaker 1: contradictions can't exist. And one of the reasons why they
[49:58] Speaker 1: can't exist is because we we've created logical contradictions, like
[50:02] Speaker 1: we've used language in a way to describe things that
[50:06] Speaker 1: either contradict and are impossible from the way that we
[50:09] Speaker 1: actually form them eye and.
[50:12] Speaker 4: I'm talking about logical possibility. So if we have some
[50:15] Speaker 4: sort of formed laws of logic like P or not P,
[50:17] Speaker 4: for example, and it's going to be the case that's
[50:19] Speaker 4: going to have to be enforced in all logically possible
[50:21] Speaker 4: worlds because we're talking about logical modality.
[50:23] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm asking you still about the enforcement because again,
[50:28] Speaker 1: they're not prescriptive. They are descriptive, which means they don't
[50:33] Speaker 1: need to be means they don't need to be enforced.
[50:37] Speaker 1: So what I'm still trying to figure out is why
[50:40] Speaker 1: I need to presuppose that the laws of logic only
[50:44] Speaker 1: exists because something is enforcing them. Why would I believe that?
[50:48] Speaker 4: Yeah, So I think our disacreemint is whether or not
[50:50] Speaker 4: logical going to be descriptive or prescriptive. So what's the
[50:52] Speaker 4: argument for it being descriptive, Because in order for it.
[50:55] Speaker 1: To be descriptive, we would have to demonstrate that it
[50:58] Speaker 1: exists somehow transcendental, and you don't have any evidence of that.
[51:01] Speaker 1: The default position is that they are in fact prescriptive
[51:06] Speaker 1: or descriptive.
[51:10] Speaker 4: Right, So you're saying that in order for someone to
[51:12] Speaker 4: be prescriptive, it has to like transcend the universe itself.
[51:16] Speaker 4: Is that what you're trying to say.
[51:17] Speaker 1: I'm saying what you're positing something that is prescriptive for
[51:22] Speaker 1: this world that we live in, then it must exist transcendentally.
[51:29] Speaker 4: Okay, And what do you mean by transcendentally?
[51:31] Speaker 1: Meaning it exists but it's not tangible, it's not necessarily observable.
[51:37] Speaker 1: It's something that is a fundamental reality of the universe,
[51:41] Speaker 1: even though it doesn't actually seem to exist in the
[51:44] Speaker 1: plane of the universe that we live in where you
[51:46] Speaker 1: can actually detect it.
[51:50] Speaker 4: Okay, So you're just saying that it doesn't have to
[51:52] Speaker 4: necessarily be observable, it's just going to be immaterial or
[51:54] Speaker 4: something like that. I'm not unnecessarily understanding what you mean
[51:57] Speaker 4: by transcendental here.
[51:58] Speaker 1: I think you've run enough tag argus means to know
[52:00] Speaker 1: what transcendental means.
[52:04] Speaker 4: Yeah, So, I guess my main contention with that is
[52:06] Speaker 4: it's just going to be the case that in order
[52:09] Speaker 4: for something to be transcendental, I don't think it necessarily
[52:12] Speaker 4: has to be prescriptive, because there's going to be some
[52:15] Speaker 4: sort of descriptive truths that can be transcendental.
[52:18] Speaker 1: I guess interesting, Well, why would I believe that the
[52:22] Speaker 1: laws of logic are either transcendental or prescriptive. I can't
[52:26] Speaker 1: see a single reason to believe that.
[52:28] Speaker 4: Yeah, So the main reason you would probably believe that
[52:31] Speaker 4: the prescriptive rather than descriptive is it's just going to
[52:33] Speaker 4: be the case that every single thing in the universe
[52:35] Speaker 4: has already conformed to it, even before the universe existed
[52:38] Speaker 4: when it came to like the Big Bang or any
[52:40] Speaker 4: sort of quantum events that most scientists are looking at
[52:43] Speaker 4: at the moment, which is speculated that the Big Bang
[52:45] Speaker 4: was quantu event rather than just simultaneous.
[52:48] Speaker 1: We have no idea what happened prior to the Big Bang.
[52:52] Speaker 1: So deposit somehow that these laws existed prior to the
[52:57] Speaker 1: Big Bang, I think is presumptuous.
[53:01] Speaker 4: Yeah, but the Big Bang still conformed.
[53:03] Speaker 1: To these laws, right, It depends on what phase of
[53:07] Speaker 1: the Big Bang. I mean, it depends on what scientists
[53:09] Speaker 1: you're asking. I personally believe so, Yes, I believe that
[53:12] Speaker 1: the Big Bang was a sequence. And to have sequencing
[53:14] Speaker 1: you need things like time, you need things like logic,
[53:17] Speaker 1: different things like that. But again, they don't conform to
[53:22] Speaker 1: the laws of logic. Physics is not conforming to the
[53:24] Speaker 1: laws of logic. The laws of logic, as far as
[53:26] Speaker 1: I can tell, is just a description using language we invented,
[53:30] Speaker 1: of how the world works.
[53:34] Speaker 4: Okay, so I guess you're just saying that the laws
[53:38] Speaker 4: of logic nets don't necessarily have to be prescriptive, because
[53:42] Speaker 4: you don't see any good reasons for why it's the
[53:44] Speaker 4: case that the laws of logic aren't transcendental or prescriptive.
[53:48] Speaker 1: Right, So, when I talk about the laws of logic
[53:51] Speaker 1: being descriptive rather than prescriptive, it's basically the same thing
[53:56] Speaker 1: that like the claim on my screen, your God is
[53:59] Speaker 1: a magic right, the default position on things that are immaterial, undetectable,
[54:07] Speaker 1: and don't seem to actually have any evidence for their existence,
[54:10] Speaker 1: the default position is going to be that they're somehow
[54:15] Speaker 1: a product or derivative of, you know, the human mind,
[54:20] Speaker 1: unless we can demonstrate elsewhere. Right now, if somehow we
[54:25] Speaker 1: found a way to like scientifically detect laws of logic, yeah, yeah,
[54:31] Speaker 1: And then if that were the case, then I may say, yeah,
[54:33] Speaker 1: well shit, maybe they are descriptive, and maybe they are
[54:36] Speaker 1: part of the universe, maybe the part of the makeup
[54:39] Speaker 1: of the universe. But until we do that, I have
[54:41] Speaker 1: no reason to believe that.
[54:45] Speaker 4: Okay, mean, I guess you'd probably have to look forward
[54:48] Speaker 4: to that.
[54:50] Speaker 1: Right, So the default position for things that you can't
[54:54] Speaker 1: actually discover that, the default position can't be that it
[55:01] Speaker 1: must exist unless you prove otherwise, because then I could
[55:03] Speaker 1: do the same thing. I could just say, well, you know,
[55:06] Speaker 1: the default position on you know, the life granting unicorn
[55:11] Speaker 1: is that it's true and it's the cause of all
[55:14] Speaker 1: things that are living. Well. Really, I mean, the fact
[55:17] Speaker 1: that we've never seen one, the fact that it seems
[55:19] Speaker 1: to violate all the information we know about the world,
[55:22] Speaker 1: would lead one to believe that the default position on
[55:26] Speaker 1: life granting unicorns should be that they are in fact imaginary.
[55:32] Speaker 1: I can think of them. They are in my head
[55:34] Speaker 1: for sure, but do they exist in real life? I
[55:37] Speaker 1: don't believe.
[55:38] Speaker 4: So, Okay, So you're basically saying that your only objection
[55:45] Speaker 4: to the argument would just be that loge logical are
[55:47] Speaker 4: going to be descriptive. So if it is the case
[55:49] Speaker 4: a LODs logical or prescriptive, would the argument follow.
[55:54] Speaker 1: No, see, because if the laws of logic are in
[55:57] Speaker 1: fact descriptive, and like the uni versus behaving according to
[56:01] Speaker 1: the laws because they're descriptive. Then I still don't know
[56:05] Speaker 1: why I would make the laws of logic anything but
[56:07] Speaker 1: a naturalistic phenomenon. I have no reason to believe that
[56:10] Speaker 1: they are somehow the product of some like eternal mind
[56:15] Speaker 1: that's outside of matter, space, and time.
[56:20] Speaker 4: Right, But I'm asking if it was the case that
[56:21] Speaker 4: the laws of logic were prescriptive.
[56:24] Speaker 1: Yes, what I'm saying the laws of the laws of
[56:26] Speaker 1: logic were prescriptive. No, I don't think that I would
[56:29] Speaker 1: assume or that the argument would follow that they came
[56:33] Speaker 1: from some sort of intelligence, like I have no reason
[56:36] Speaker 1: to believe that.
[56:37] Speaker 4: Yeah, but that wasn't the argument. The argument was just
[56:40] Speaker 4: or some sort of enabler that would allow that statement
[56:41] Speaker 4: to be true.
[56:42] Speaker 1: Well, when you use the word enabler, you're inferring that
[56:45] Speaker 1: it's an agent. I don't believe. So I think if
[56:48] Speaker 1: the laws of logic were in fact descriptive, I'm sorry, prescriptive,
[56:52] Speaker 1: I don't think we need an agent for that. I
[56:56] Speaker 1: don't necessarily think it has to be an agent. Then
[56:59] Speaker 1: it could be a naturalistic phenomenon, right, Yeah, it would
[57:03] Speaker 1: just be a naturalistic enapler. Right, I agree. So, Like,
[57:06] Speaker 1: here's where I'm at with a lot of these presuppositional arguments,
[57:10] Speaker 1: which is like, if we're going to presuppose that there
[57:13] Speaker 1: is something causing our reality to be the way that
[57:16] Speaker 1: it is, I think it's simpler to presuppose naturalistic phenomenon. So,
[57:22] Speaker 1: for example, I mentioned the life granting unicorn, and I
[57:24] Speaker 1: kind of say this in jest, but the life granting
[57:27] Speaker 1: unicorn is actually a really good tool for this argument, because, like,
[57:30] Speaker 1: for example, if I'm talking to someone who's like, well,
[57:33] Speaker 1: you can't explain how life came from non life, First
[57:35] Speaker 1: of all, I think we actually can. But even if
[57:37] Speaker 1: I couldn't, I think it's actually easier just to say, okay, well,
[57:41] Speaker 1: if we're going to event something or we're going to
[57:44] Speaker 1: imagine something that is capable of giving life, I think
[57:48] Speaker 1: a life granting unicorn is equally as plausible as any
[57:51] Speaker 1: of the gods that are made up by religion and
[57:54] Speaker 1: have a lot less entailments the life granting unicorn. I
[57:58] Speaker 1: don't have to justify life granting unicorn has child brides,
[58:03] Speaker 1: or why it is doing genocides or why it allowed slavery.
[58:07] Speaker 1: It's way a simpler explanation.
[58:09] Speaker 4: Yeah, So I guess how which exactly would you explain
[58:15] Speaker 4: the natural order of the universe. In the first place,
[58:18] Speaker 4: you see naturalism rather than some sort of intelligence of
[58:21] Speaker 4: this being.
[58:23] Speaker 1: Yeah, so I don't actually think the universe is in order.
[58:26] Speaker 1: I think the universe is mostly chaos, and I think
[58:28] Speaker 1: that there are like pockets of order that pop up
[58:32] Speaker 1: in the universe over the you know, the course of time.
[58:36] Speaker 1: But I mean in the end, it's gonna be a
[58:38] Speaker 1: complete disaster. You know, the universe is gonna either die
[58:42] Speaker 1: a very cold, cold death because everything's spread so far
[58:46] Speaker 1: apart that there can't be any heat transfer, or it's
[58:48] Speaker 1: gonna rebound back in on itself and it's gonna be
[58:51] Speaker 1: one big hot mess agan, and we're going to go
[58:54] Speaker 1: through another expansion just like the the you know, the
[58:56] Speaker 1: the Big Bang, like we did before, and in any
[58:59] Speaker 1: in all of those cases, it's just complete destruction. In fact,
[59:03] Speaker 1: in about a billion years, our sun is going to
[59:05] Speaker 1: destroy most of our solar system. Earth is going to
[59:07] Speaker 1: be burned up.
[59:10] Speaker 4: Okay, I mean that's an interesting to reason to believe
[59:15] Speaker 4: that naturalism is better explain it for that, But why
[59:19] Speaker 4: do you think the universe is not really an order?
[59:23] Speaker 1: Why would I believe that it is? Like when I
[59:24] Speaker 1: look out in the universe, I see mostly chaos. Like
[59:28] Speaker 1: we look at the order on Earth, right and we say, ah,
[59:32] Speaker 1: well that this the fact that we have order means
[59:36] Speaker 1: that something must have put it in order. But to me,
[59:38] Speaker 1: I think the reason why we have any type of
[59:41] Speaker 1: order is just because like the laws of physics, specifically gravity,
[59:44] Speaker 1: like gravity. Like I don't think people realize how thankful
[59:48] Speaker 1: we should be for gravity, because without gravity, a lot
[59:51] Speaker 1: of shit when like nothing's gonna work. So like, to me,
[59:56] Speaker 1: like just because like these these principles of physics, because
[1:00:00] Speaker 1: they work the way that they work, it allows things
[1:00:03] Speaker 1: to actually form chemical bonds. Uh. And when things can
[1:00:07] Speaker 1: form chemical bonds, they can start to do other things,
[1:00:09] Speaker 1: which is really fun. So like like I just think
[1:00:13] Speaker 1: that the laws of physics have allowed us, for this
[1:00:16] Speaker 1: short time period in history to form something that is
[1:00:21] Speaker 1: really interesting, complex and intricate. And but we're all going
[1:00:25] Speaker 1: to be destroyed one day. We're not going to exist, Okay,
[1:00:30] Speaker 1: I mean that's interesting, So a lot to think about. Well,
[1:00:32] Speaker 1: good chat, Yeah, I mean it's not it's not fun
[1:00:35] Speaker 1: to think about. No one likes to think about the
[1:00:36] Speaker 1: fact that we're we're going to be annihilated. But I
[1:00:39] Speaker 1: mean that's I think it's parsimonious with what we see
[1:00:42] Speaker 1: in the rest of the universe. The rest of the
[1:00:44] Speaker 1: universe is, you know, kind of a chaotic void full
[1:00:48] Speaker 1: of uh, you know, giant balls of plasma.
[1:00:52] Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, So how did you How did you end
[1:00:58] Speaker 4: on the Christian God? Oh? Yeah? So basically I just
[1:01:02] Speaker 4: draw from the nest start being existing that there has
[1:01:05] Speaker 4: to be some sort of other things like for a
[1:01:07] Speaker 4: design for example, and other transcendental arguments that would just
[1:01:12] Speaker 4: allow me to believe that other things such as knowledge, morality, logic. Oh,
[1:01:17] Speaker 4: I have to exist in some sort of transcendental mind,
[1:01:20] Speaker 4: which the best contender for being that transcendental mind would
[1:01:23] Speaker 4: just be the Christian God.
[1:01:25] Speaker 1: Sure, so let's imagine for a second that I would
[1:01:29] Speaker 1: be I would grant you that there is a creator, right.
[1:01:34] Speaker 1: I think there's a couple of things that we could
[1:01:37] Speaker 1: deduce from that. I think number one is that the
[1:01:42] Speaker 1: type of creator probably isn't like the Omnigod. He's not
[1:01:46] Speaker 1: omni loving or omni benevolent as it said, or omnipotent
[1:01:51] Speaker 1: you know, or you know, all knowing. So and you've
[1:01:57] Speaker 1: done enough philosophy that you know exactly why. It because
[1:01:59] Speaker 1: of the problem of evil. Now, in Christianity, you guys
[1:02:04] Speaker 1: have an answer for the problem of evil typically, but
[1:02:07] Speaker 1: you don't have an answer for the problem of natural evil.
[1:02:11] Speaker 1: And this goes to the whole design argument, right, like
[1:02:14] Speaker 1: this idea that we're designed. Well, if we're designed, there's
[1:02:18] Speaker 1: a lot of questionable things and the habitat that was
[1:02:21] Speaker 1: designed for us. I can't see a good reason why
[1:02:25] Speaker 1: and all knowing, all loving, all you know, good God
[1:02:28] Speaker 1: would create a world in which one hundred thousand people
[1:02:32] Speaker 1: a year are killed in natural disasters and then on
[1:02:35] Speaker 1: top of it another you know, one hundred thousand people
[1:02:38] Speaker 1: are like maimed and paralyzed or like, you know, end
[1:02:42] Speaker 1: up vegetableized. This is not to me consistent with a
[1:02:47] Speaker 1: God that has all these omni attributes.
[1:02:50] Speaker 4: Yeah, So how I usually respond to the problem of
[1:02:52] Speaker 4: evil is there's a couple of ways I do respond.
[1:02:55] Speaker 4: Some are not going to be as powerful as others.
[1:02:57] Speaker 4: But the first thing I usually do is I just
[1:02:59] Speaker 4: point out that atheists don't have any solution or have
[1:03:02] Speaker 4: any position on what evil or bad would be, So
[1:03:06] Speaker 4: I don't see why they would even point it out.
[1:03:07] Speaker 4: In the first place. But I can see it being
[1:03:09] Speaker 4: an internal critique. And if it's just an internal critique,
[1:03:12] Speaker 4: would just reply by saying, like, if it is the
[1:03:14] Speaker 4: case that there was no el, we're suffering or free
[1:03:17] Speaker 4: will in the first place, we wouldn't even be able
[1:03:18] Speaker 4: to get any virtues such as honesty some other things
[1:03:25] Speaker 4: like I'm trying to forget I'm trying to remember the
[1:03:27] Speaker 4: exact word, but there's some other virtues that cannot exist
[1:03:31] Speaker 4: without evil and suffering existing in the first place.
[1:03:34] Speaker 1: Well, I think that puts the cart before the horse,
[1:03:36] Speaker 1: because I'm not suggesting that there should never be sadness
[1:03:39] Speaker 1: or there should never be, you know, a lack of
[1:03:43] Speaker 1: joy or anything like that, although that's what heaven is
[1:03:46] Speaker 1: according to Revelation twenty one, verse eight, or you know,
[1:03:49] Speaker 1: at seven and eight. But that being said, I'm not
[1:03:53] Speaker 1: saying that we should only have good. What I'm saying
[1:03:56] Speaker 1: is that what you shouldn't have is unnecessary torment. Right, So,
[1:04:01] Speaker 1: when I look at like the suffering in the world,
[1:04:04] Speaker 1: I'm dividing it. Some of it seems to be probably
[1:04:07] Speaker 1: necessary in your worldview, not mine, and some of it
[1:04:10] Speaker 1: is clearly unnecessary. I viewed the natural disasters, bone cancer
[1:04:14] Speaker 1: in children, you know, parasites that crawl up your pp
[1:04:18] Speaker 1: when you swim in the river too long. These are
[1:04:22] Speaker 1: unnatural causes of suffering that don't seem to coincide with
[1:04:27] Speaker 1: the God that is all good and all loving.
[1:04:31] Speaker 4: Yeah, I would just say he's not really in control
[1:04:33] Speaker 4: of those things, and so far that he would violate
[1:04:36] Speaker 4: the natural order of things within the world in order
[1:04:38] Speaker 4: to stop like parasites from crawling up your peep for example.
[1:04:41] Speaker 4: I don't necessarily think he would intervene just for those
[1:04:44] Speaker 4: specific reasons, because I'll just be in violation of him
[1:04:47] Speaker 4: just letting the natural order of the world be.
[1:04:52] Speaker 1: Right. But I don't think we need him to intervene.
[1:04:55] Speaker 1: I think it was a design choice from the beginning.
[1:04:58] Speaker 1: Like could God have designed the world in which a
[1:05:02] Speaker 1: babies aren't born with bone cancer and b natural disasters
[1:05:05] Speaker 1: didn't happen.
[1:05:11] Speaker 4: I guess you could have. But then I don't believe
[1:05:13] Speaker 4: in just some sort of stem day creation. I even
[1:05:16] Speaker 4: like some sort of natural order of evolution in the
[1:05:18] Speaker 4: first place. Whether or not it's going to be natural
[1:05:20] Speaker 4: or divine or guided by divine revelation or something like
[1:05:22] Speaker 4: that is uh. I'm sort of agnostic on that.
[1:05:26] Speaker 1: Okay, so you might be interested. Have you read any
[1:05:30] Speaker 1: of the research or the publications by biologos?
[1:05:36] Speaker 4: No, not, No, would.
[1:05:38] Speaker 1: Be a good place to start. That they believe, you know,
[1:05:40] Speaker 1: there is an apologist organization, but there's a lot of
[1:05:44] Speaker 1: scholars actually involved, and they accept the findings of evolution
[1:05:49] Speaker 1: in science and they integrate it with their theology. So
[1:05:51] Speaker 1: it's a good place to check. I actually got some
[1:05:54] Speaker 1: friends that are part of the organization. That being said,
[1:05:59] Speaker 1: if God right is all powerful, he's all knowing, he
[1:06:04] Speaker 1: knows the future, and he's all good. Then whether or
[1:06:08] Speaker 1: not he's using a natural process or whether or not
[1:06:11] Speaker 1: he's like physically causing things to be at the beginning
[1:06:16] Speaker 1: of the creation, he still knew the way things were
[1:06:18] Speaker 1: going to play out, which means he's still yeah, he's
[1:06:22] Speaker 1: still responsible for the natural disasters. Like so for example,
[1:06:27] Speaker 1: if I create, I create machines for a living. If
[1:06:31] Speaker 1: I create a machine and I'm going to say, I
[1:06:35] Speaker 1: make a robot, right, and I give it eyeballs that
[1:06:39] Speaker 1: shoot flames and fingers that are like made out of knives,
[1:06:42] Speaker 1: and then like every you know, periodically every thirty minutes
[1:06:47] Speaker 1: or so, let's just say that it emits like a
[1:06:52] Speaker 1: toxic gas. And then I put this thing in a
[1:06:54] Speaker 1: house with one hundred people, I don't really know what's
[1:06:57] Speaker 1: going to happen. I can't guarantee I know what this
[1:07:00] Speaker 1: thing is going to do. Because it's got AI technology,
[1:07:02] Speaker 1: it could do whatever it wants. But I did still
[1:07:05] Speaker 1: design it, and I knew what it was capable of,
[1:07:09] Speaker 1: and I had the power to not design it that way.
[1:07:11] Speaker 1: I could have designed it any way I wanted, And
[1:07:14] Speaker 1: so I'm responsible for what the robot does, even if
[1:07:18] Speaker 1: I can't necessarily, you know, even if I didn't cause
[1:07:21] Speaker 1: it to do everything that it does. Does that make sense?
[1:07:25] Speaker 4: Yeah, sort of. But then I would just say that
[1:07:27] Speaker 4: there's certainly other virtues that exist as a result of
[1:07:31] Speaker 4: evil and suffering existing in the first place. But I
[1:07:33] Speaker 4: feel like that position just could be equally as applicable
[1:07:35] Speaker 4: to like an anti natalyst sort of argument as well,
[1:07:38] Speaker 4: Like if you know you have the capacity to create
[1:07:40] Speaker 4: some sort of other human being and they would undergo suffering,
[1:07:43] Speaker 4: or they have the ability to undergo suffering immense suffering
[1:07:45] Speaker 4: in this world, then why would you create it in
[1:07:47] Speaker 4: the first place? And I would just say that you
[1:07:49] Speaker 4: would create it because existence is probably could be one
[1:07:52] Speaker 4: of the best things that could possibly happen to anybody. Well,
[1:07:55] Speaker 4: I feel like I logic could just be applied to
[1:07:56] Speaker 4: other positions which you might not be consistent with.
[1:07:59] Speaker 1: Right. But again, that's where I would divide this idea
[1:08:02] Speaker 1: of necessary versus unnecessary. So if there is some necessary
[1:08:06] Speaker 1: that is required for the formation of virtues, which you know,
[1:08:11] Speaker 1: that's a whole separate argument, we can go there if
[1:08:12] Speaker 1: we need to. But if that's the case, that I
[1:08:15] Speaker 1: would consider those to be necessary, right, I'm concerned with
[1:08:19] Speaker 1: the unnecessary ones. Well, for example, the natural disasters. Theoretically,
[1:08:24] Speaker 1: you know, the God that you believe in created the planet,
[1:08:28] Speaker 1: like he knew what the planet was going to do,
[1:08:31] Speaker 1: and according to the biblical narrative, like prior to the
[1:08:34] Speaker 1: fall of Adam and Eve, it seems like there wasn't
[1:08:37] Speaker 1: natural disasters. It seems like we didn't have some of
[1:08:40] Speaker 1: the stuff going on, and then after the fall we
[1:08:43] Speaker 1: got these natural disasters and he cursed the earth and whatnot.
[1:08:48] Speaker 1: It seems like that is unnecessary. That doesn't seem to
[1:08:51] Speaker 1: be required for anything.
[1:08:56] Speaker 4: Right, But what are you talking about when you're saying
[1:08:57] Speaker 4: necessary in the sense.
[1:09:00] Speaker 1: So when I see necessary, I mean it can't be
[1:09:02] Speaker 1: any other way. So like, if you say, for example,
[1:09:05] Speaker 1: that God needs natural disasters in order to bring about virtues,
[1:09:11] Speaker 1: then I'm going to put you in a double bind.
[1:09:13] Speaker 1: While I'm going to say, well, if God needs natural
[1:09:15] Speaker 1: disasters in order to teach you virtues, that means he
[1:09:18] Speaker 1: couldn't have done it any other way, which means now
[1:09:20] Speaker 1: you're limiting God's power. You're suggesting that God is incapable
[1:09:24] Speaker 1: of teaching you virtues unless he unleashes horrors on you.
[1:09:28] Speaker 1: But then that denies the fact that an all powerful
[1:09:31] Speaker 1: being couldn't just have created you with a better perception
[1:09:35] Speaker 1: of a better ability to perceive virtues.
[1:09:42] Speaker 4: Yeah, so basically, which I think I'm trying to steal. Man,
[1:09:45] Speaker 4: So you're basically saying that if God needed some sort
[1:09:49] Speaker 4: of even with SUFFERINGO in order for virtues to be
[1:09:53] Speaker 4: become as a result of it, then you just deny
[1:09:55] Speaker 4: it or would say that God is bounded by them.
[1:09:59] Speaker 1: Well, I'm saying is it's it is kind of a
[1:10:00] Speaker 1: double edged sword. Like if you say God is incapable
[1:10:03] Speaker 1: of teaching you virtues unless he inflicts untold horrors upon
[1:10:07] Speaker 1: you by natural disasters. Then I would say that that
[1:10:11] Speaker 1: means God is simply not all powerful. He's not capable
[1:10:15] Speaker 1: of teaching you virtues. In another way, so the minute
[1:10:18] Speaker 1: you admit that he's incapable of teaching you virtue without
[1:10:22] Speaker 1: making you suffering, then you've admitted that there's something he
[1:10:25] Speaker 1: can't do. So it turns into a double bind.
[1:10:29] Speaker 4: Yeah, So I'll just respond by basically saying that those
[1:10:31] Speaker 4: virtues come necessarily from suffering at the first life. Just
[1:10:35] Speaker 4: like by definition, certain things will come as a result
[1:10:38] Speaker 4: of suffering. Sure, but God doesn't have to create those
[1:10:41] Speaker 4: things directly because they have to come as a result
[1:10:44] Speaker 4: from suffering. But it's just like a definitional criteria.
[1:10:47] Speaker 1: But specific causes.
[1:10:48] Speaker 5: Right.
[1:10:49] Speaker 1: So for example, I've learned virtues in my life and
[1:10:52] Speaker 1: I never had to get bone cancer to do it.
[1:10:54] Speaker 1: I've learned virtues in my life and I never had
[1:10:57] Speaker 1: to have a building collapse on me during you know,
[1:11:00] Speaker 1: an earthquake.
[1:11:01] Speaker 4: Right.
[1:11:01] Speaker 1: So the question is why do these natural disasters need
[1:11:06] Speaker 1: to be required for their virtues when it seems to
[1:11:08] Speaker 1: be that these virtues typically can be learned through much
[1:11:12] Speaker 1: lesser you know, pain.
[1:11:18] Speaker 4: I guess I wouldn't have a direct response to that, right,
[1:11:21] Speaker 4: I'm not get that sure.
[1:11:23] Speaker 1: Now that being said, here, you know, you sound like
[1:11:28] Speaker 1: a nice young man. So here's where I think a
[1:11:30] Speaker 1: lot of people are at in the deconstruction community. You know,
[1:11:34] Speaker 1: we've and I'm sure that like the philosophy arguments go well,
[1:11:40] Speaker 1: you know with people who haven't heard them before. But
[1:11:43] Speaker 1: most of the people in my live stream and myself included, like,
[1:11:46] Speaker 1: we've kind of heard tag and all the other arguments
[1:11:50] Speaker 1: so so long that just you know, as it kind
[1:11:55] Speaker 1: of heads up when you come into a live stream
[1:11:57] Speaker 1: like mine and you start running some of the arguments,
[1:12:01] Speaker 1: just be warned that not only have we heard it,
[1:12:04] Speaker 1: but it like the people in the comments are probably
[1:12:10] Speaker 1: gonna say crazy stuff about you because like we've heard
[1:12:14] Speaker 1: it so many times. I think there are probably better
[1:12:17] Speaker 1: arguments out there than like the transcendental argument or you know,
[1:12:22] Speaker 1: any of these presuppositional arguments. I don't know if they're
[1:12:28] Speaker 1: if they're great arguments, but I think they are better.
[1:12:31] Speaker 1: And I'll give you an example from one of your
[1:12:34] Speaker 1: own historians. If you read the works of the early
[1:12:38] Speaker 1: Church fathers, guys like Justin Martyr in Origin they believed
[1:12:43] Speaker 1: that the best evidences for the Christian God being real
[1:12:47] Speaker 1: was in fact the Bible and the prophecies being fulfilled.
[1:12:53] Speaker 1: And so maybe that should be something you should study,
[1:12:57] Speaker 1: you know, on top of your philosophy, because I got
[1:12:59] Speaker 1: to I've never met an atheist that converted the religion
[1:13:03] Speaker 1: because of philosophy.
[1:13:05] Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true.
[1:13:06] Speaker 1: You know what I mean. Like, it sounds good. You
[1:13:08] Speaker 1: might win some arguments with it because you're debating someone
[1:13:11] Speaker 1: who's never done philosophy before. But I don't think it
[1:13:14] Speaker 1: converts people.
[1:13:17] Speaker 4: M hmm, yeah, I can understand that.
[1:13:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, listen, man, thanks for chat with me.
[1:13:23] Speaker 1: I kept you a little bit longer than I think
[1:13:24] Speaker 1: you wanted, but I appreciate you chating with me.
[1:13:28] Speaker 4: Yeah, good chat.
[1:13:29] Speaker 1: All right, cheers. Well that was interesting. I was curious
[1:13:36] Speaker 1: how how many circles we'd go in with the philbro stuff,
[1:13:41] Speaker 1: But it looks like we didn't go in too many circles.
[1:13:43] Speaker 1: And what are you gonna do? All right, let me
[1:13:46] Speaker 1: grab a couple super chats and then we'll get our
[1:13:48] Speaker 1: next guest pulled in. We've got a couple of people
[1:13:50] Speaker 1: in the queue waiting to get in, and Josh, thank
[1:13:55] Speaker 1: you for the Superchest says, right, just Jimstones is hilarious.
[1:13:57] Speaker 1: I believe you, and obviously now now I want to
[1:14:01] Speaker 1: watch it and I agree. Also, Josh, that presup post
[1:14:06] Speaker 1: stupid big w Yeah. Yeah, We've heard the presup stuff
[1:14:13] Speaker 1: so many times here. I'm surprised that the preceppers still
[1:14:17] Speaker 1: believe that it's effective. Carne Asada great name, by the way,
[1:14:22] Speaker 1: and nearly my favorite taco. I like the carne Asada
[1:14:26] Speaker 1: taco like nine out of ten times. That's what I'm
[1:14:29] Speaker 1: gonna get. But thank you for the ten hour super
[1:14:30] Speaker 1: Chet says, could you dig into the criticisms of the
[1:14:33] Speaker 1: keynote hypothesis and what your viewpoint is on that. I've
[1:14:36] Speaker 1: been doing some homework and this one's got me STYMIEDE So,
[1:14:40] Speaker 1: I love the keynote hypothesis also known as the Midi
[1:14:44] Speaker 1: Night hypothesis. And the general idea is this, like it's
[1:14:49] Speaker 1: like the narrative of Moses in the Old Testament. They
[1:14:54] Speaker 1: believe there's like a kernel of truth in that, which
[1:14:57] Speaker 1: is that there was a guy who left Egypt that
[1:15:01] Speaker 1: dwelt with a priest in Midian and worshiped the god
[1:15:06] Speaker 1: of Midian. And according to modern archaeology, it seems to
[1:15:09] Speaker 1: be that Yahweh originally came from the area of Midian
[1:15:14] Speaker 1: and Edom. And if you look up some of the
[1:15:18] Speaker 1: recent archaeological works connecting Yahweh with metal urgy from the
[1:15:23] Speaker 1: land of Edom, it becomes even more evident that he
[1:15:27] Speaker 1: seems to be more of a god of the southern levant,
[1:15:30] Speaker 1: more of the god that eventually became the deity of
[1:15:33] Speaker 1: Judah and then eventually obviously to Israel. So Moses theoretically
[1:15:41] Speaker 1: left Egypt, went to the land of Midian, learned about
[1:15:44] Speaker 1: the god Yahweh there from the Midianites, and then when
[1:15:48] Speaker 1: when he developed his people group in what became you know,
[1:15:53] Speaker 1: probably the land of Edom east or somewhere just east
[1:15:57] Speaker 1: of the river, he used Yahweh as as that deity.
[1:16:03] Speaker 1: And of course later on there became a big myth
[1:16:06] Speaker 1: that built up around Yahwism, and they kind of invented
[1:16:09] Speaker 1: their own mythology to match the cultural heritage of the
[1:16:15] Speaker 1: Judeans and the Israelites, and they conflated the god l
[1:16:18] Speaker 1: with the god Yahweh later and we can see that
[1:16:21] Speaker 1: in Exus chapter six, verses two and three, and Mark S.
[1:16:26] Speaker 1: Smith has written about this. I think I recommended some
[1:16:28] Speaker 1: works by Mark to you. You might also want to
[1:16:31] Speaker 1: look up The Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Canaan by
[1:16:35] Speaker 1: John Day, and there's been some work by other scholars.
[1:16:41] Speaker 1: I think we can probably leave it there for now.
[1:16:44] Speaker 1: But my personal viewpoint is I think the key Nite
[1:16:47] Speaker 1: hypothesis is a good one. I think ultimately it's unprovable,
[1:16:52] Speaker 1: that's why it's the hypothesis. But I think the key
[1:16:55] Speaker 1: Nite slash Media Nite hypothesis does a lot of justice
[1:16:59] Speaker 1: to the fact that Yahweh seems to be having an
[1:17:03] Speaker 1: origin in northeastern Egypt and south south and southeast levant.
[1:17:13] Speaker 1: He doesn't seem to come from the northern tribes. He
[1:17:16] Speaker 1: seems to be an artifact of the south near the
[1:17:19] Speaker 1: Egyptian border, even from the negative, and we see remnants
[1:17:22] Speaker 1: of this even in the Bible. It talks about how
[1:17:24] Speaker 1: God reigned originally from Sierra, from the land of Edom.
[1:17:29] Speaker 1: So hope that helps. And Josh says, isn't ironic that
[1:17:32] Speaker 1: philde and one of those two things is infinitely more
[1:17:38] Speaker 1: exciting than the other. And doctor Peter, thank you for
[1:17:41] Speaker 1: the supertest, says Premise one. I found a script that
[1:17:43] Speaker 1: both reaffirms my beliefs, and I think it makes me
[1:17:46] Speaker 1: sound smart. Therefore, God, specifically my version of the Christian God.
[1:17:50] Speaker 1: I think that's about it. Actually, I think that sums
[1:17:53] Speaker 1: it up. How the Philbro scripts work out. That seems
[1:17:55] Speaker 1: to be the case and make the best of what's around,
[1:17:59] Speaker 1: says the ark and counter is the curse of ken Ham.
[1:18:02] Speaker 1: I've never heard that, and I'm sad that I haven't
[1:18:04] Speaker 1: heard that yet. That's phenomenal. Thank you for that, and
[1:18:08] Speaker 1: Marcus says, thanks for taking my question justin You're truly
[1:18:11] Speaker 1: in inspiration. Keep fighting the good fight.
[1:18:12] Speaker 4: Brother.
[1:18:13] Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Marcus. I appreciate that, and thank you
[1:18:16] Speaker 1: for supporting and helping Mega is with us tonight, says
[1:18:19] Speaker 1: dear Doug. Please no more Philbro words out tonight. Well,
[1:18:22] Speaker 1: we'll do what we can. We're gonna do what we
[1:18:25] Speaker 1: can and l a silver surfer. Good to see you tonight, friend.
[1:18:28] Speaker 1: Thank you for the five dollars super thanks and also Snickerdoodle,
[1:18:32] Speaker 1: one of my favorite cookies. By the way, Thank you
[1:18:34] Speaker 1: for the ten hour supertest, says Doug. One One states
[1:18:36] Speaker 1: in the beginning was the word and the word was
[1:18:38] Speaker 1: with Doug, and the word was Doug. This verse says
[1:18:41] Speaker 1: that Doug the word existed eternally with God, and God
[1:18:45] Speaker 1: was creator. It's Doug little. I can't argue with that.
[1:18:51] Speaker 1: Anyone who's been on my channel long enough knows that
[1:18:54] Speaker 1: the scriptures literally talk about Doug endlessly. It literally says
[1:18:58] Speaker 1: in Exus thirty two that God is a rock. It's
[1:19:01] Speaker 1: it's right there in the text. So I don't really
[1:19:03] Speaker 1: know what more, you know, we can do other than
[1:19:07] Speaker 1: just read the Bible, you know. And Connor, thank you
[1:19:09] Speaker 1: for sending out some d Z subscription. I really appreciate that,
[1:19:13] Speaker 1: and the Church of for Thank you so much for
[1:19:16] Speaker 1: being a subscriber, says new Ash subscriber. I've been shamelessly
[1:19:19] Speaker 1: nicking your arguments. Wouldn't mind the combo at some point
[1:19:22] Speaker 1: if the chat If you chat with Asias, well I
[1:19:25] Speaker 1: typically don't unless I run out of theis to chat with.
[1:19:29] Speaker 1: But thank you so much for subbin and for watching
[1:19:31] Speaker 1: and supporting the channel. I do really appreciate that. And guys,
[1:19:36] Speaker 1: I've got a ton of super chats, and I'm sorry
[1:19:40] Speaker 1: that I'm backed up. I got to get a guest
[1:19:42] Speaker 1: in here and keep the conversation flowing. I'll do my
[1:19:46] Speaker 1: best to catch up on the super chats uh when
[1:19:51] Speaker 1: I'm when I'm able, and Johannah says, thank you so much.
[1:19:55] Speaker 1: By the way, he says, what a supreme bummer to
[1:19:56] Speaker 1: be born with parents who became Jehovah witnesses in their twenties.
[1:19:59] Speaker 1: They we got birthday and Christmas presents, and now they
[1:20:02] Speaker 1: deny their kids these pleasures. That's the craziest thing about
[1:20:06] Speaker 1: the jws is that the lack of gifts. They simply
[1:20:10] Speaker 1: will not give gifts. It's weird to me Jesus talked
[1:20:14] Speaker 1: about giving gifts. He says, you know what, good father
[1:20:17] Speaker 1: if their child asks for bred Wick, gimm a stone,
[1:20:20] Speaker 1: crazy gifts as normal. Aaron says it's really looking forward
[1:20:24] Speaker 1: to DC's version of Star Trek with the Enemy Within
[1:20:28] Speaker 1: with two Justin's I don't know what the Enemy Within
[1:20:34] Speaker 1: is hm. Anyways, I do like a little bit of
[1:20:39] Speaker 1: Star Trek though, I definitely go for that. Thank you
[1:20:42] Speaker 1: for the super j Aeron, good to see it tonight,
[1:20:44] Speaker 1: and Bernie says Duteronomy six sixteen, I do not do
[1:20:49] Speaker 1: not put your audio to the test, Big w but
[1:20:53] Speaker 1: we did test it tonight. Thank you for the super
[1:20:55] Speaker 1: j Hebrew English Bible read thank you somebody for the
[1:20:57] Speaker 1: six sixty six hail Nero says, justin a Christian on X,
[1:21:01] Speaker 1: trying to argue that John three thirteen reads, no one
[1:21:04] Speaker 1: has ever gone to have an and return to avoid
[1:21:07] Speaker 1: the issue. Dishonest NLT translation. Yeah, it's dishonest. That's why
[1:21:12] Speaker 1: I don't read the NLT. They're too apologetic. And you're right,
[1:21:15] Speaker 1: it doesn't say and that that's not at all what
[1:21:19] Speaker 1: it says. But listen, Christian's gonna cope. And Carlos, big
[1:21:23] Speaker 1: big w thank you so so much for the supertest,
[1:21:26] Speaker 1: says ready for today's dinner? Well, I hope you are ready.
[1:21:29] Speaker 1: We're gonna get our next guest in here and we're
[1:21:32] Speaker 1: gonna keep keep the night. Roland, thank you so much,
[1:21:37] Speaker 1: Carlos for the superchet. It looks like we've got now.
[1:21:42] Speaker 1: I can't read the name because the text is too small.
[1:21:45] Speaker 1: But is it can do the can do?
[1:21:51] Speaker 6: I think it's the candy Oh, Candio.
[1:21:54] Speaker 1: Sorry, the letters are kind of crushed together.
[1:21:57] Speaker 6: That's me.
[1:21:58] Speaker 1: How are you doing, Candy roo Hey?
[1:22:01] Speaker 6: Uh so I'm not here to debate.
[1:22:03] Speaker 3: Uh.
[1:22:04] Speaker 6: I actually had a question for you. Uh that kind
[1:22:07] Speaker 6: of leans toward uh deconstructing m H. I had a U.
[1:22:14] Speaker 6: I had a friend.
[1:22:15] Speaker 13: I've been uh friends with this person for many, many years,
[1:22:18] Speaker 13: and uh this uh, this friend kind of went over
[1:22:22] Speaker 13: the deep end and uh became a super you know,
[1:22:30] Speaker 13: conspiracy theorists, Bible based Christian you know, living in the
[1:22:36] Speaker 13: depths of the internet with UFOs are demonic and uh
[1:22:41] Speaker 13: the earth is five thousand years old and and you know,
[1:22:45] Speaker 13: just really crazy shit. And I immediately started, you know,
[1:22:51] Speaker 13: I'm I'm a pretty benign person. I'm not someone who
[1:22:54] Speaker 13: likes to go around debating anybody. But the conversation conversation
[1:22:59] Speaker 13: eventually evolved into me bringing up, you know, among other things,
[1:23:04] Speaker 13: biblical consistencies, and this person brought up dispensationalism. And when
[1:23:13] Speaker 13: you brought it up, I'd heard it before, but I
[1:23:15] Speaker 13: didn't really like, you know whatever. But this person was
[1:23:19] Speaker 13: using dispensationalism to sort of justify these biblical contradictions, basically
[1:23:27] Speaker 13: saying something along the lines of, you know, well it
[1:23:30] Speaker 13: was true.
[1:23:31] Speaker 6: At the time, it was true when God said it,
[1:23:36] Speaker 6: and blah blah blah, this that and the other. And
[1:23:38] Speaker 6: this was years ago.
[1:23:39] Speaker 9: I haven't talked to the person since, but I.
[1:23:42] Speaker 1: Really, how dispensationalism works like dispensation, is that there's typically
[1:23:48] Speaker 1: dispensations sometimes a period of within a thousand years, where
[1:23:53] Speaker 1: I mean, it's not usually always a thousand percent, he asked,
[1:23:56] Speaker 1: but where like God is doing different things in this dispensation.
[1:24:01] Speaker 1: So you might say, well, like in this disposation, God
[1:24:04] Speaker 1: gave the law, and this is why he gave the law.
[1:24:07] Speaker 1: But now in this new dispensation, we don't have the
[1:24:10] Speaker 1: law right, So that's kind of like the idea of dispensations.
[1:24:14] Speaker 1: It gets you from point A to point B even
[1:24:18] Speaker 1: though things are changing. But dispensationalism never gets rid of contradictions,
[1:24:22] Speaker 1: like if one verse says something that is just a
[1:24:26] Speaker 1: straight statement and another verse later says the exact opposite,
[1:24:30] Speaker 1: like what we were just reading in John three thirteen,
[1:24:32] Speaker 1: no one has ascended in heaven when we know that
[1:24:35] Speaker 1: Elijah has ascended in heaven. Well listen, dispensationalism will never
[1:24:39] Speaker 1: fix that.
[1:24:43] Speaker 13: Well, well, yeah, I mean that makes sense, and that's
[1:24:45] Speaker 13: one of the that's one of the things that I
[1:24:47] Speaker 13: basically brought up to this person. I said, hey, that
[1:24:49] Speaker 13: sounds like a massive load of shit, which you just said,
[1:24:53] Speaker 13: not you but this person, when they said it to
[1:24:55] Speaker 13: a man, be, those contradictions are still there. Those contradictions
[1:24:59] Speaker 13: are still contras. And it didn't take much longer after
[1:25:05] Speaker 13: that for me to realize, hey, this person is like
[1:25:09] Speaker 13: gone and be. It became very clear that I'm probably
[1:25:13] Speaker 13: never going to talk to this person again.
[1:25:14] Speaker 6: And I didn't. This was several years ago, but I
[1:25:19] Speaker 6: was kind of left haunted.
[1:25:21] Speaker 8: By it, only because you know, it doesn't make me
[1:25:27] Speaker 8: doubt anything, but it was haunting in that this person
[1:25:33] Speaker 8: was so ready to sort of dismiss reason, being reasonable
[1:25:39] Speaker 8: in favor of this absolute nonsense.
[1:25:44] Speaker 13: And ever since then, I've kind of felt like, you know,
[1:25:51] Speaker 13: like the more I see in the world around me,
[1:25:53] Speaker 13: the more I see in the society around me, like
[1:25:56] Speaker 13: everybody's going crazy, And sometimes I guess I just don't
[1:26:01] Speaker 13: know how to deal with it. And I don't know,
[1:26:07] Speaker 13: as someone who's deconstructed, you know, how do you.
[1:26:12] Speaker 6: How do you see things?
[1:26:13] Speaker 13: Like how do you sort of deal with the craziness
[1:26:17] Speaker 13: that's going on around us? And sometimes you know, the
[1:26:20] Speaker 13: craziness that I hear some of these people calling in
[1:26:25] Speaker 13: some of the things I here to justify, so the
[1:26:28] Speaker 13: things I hear coming out of their mouths. It's like,
[1:26:30] Speaker 13: how do you know what we do in the face
[1:26:32] Speaker 13: of that?
[1:26:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think there's a couple of things, right. So,
[1:26:36] Speaker 1: for example, it's important to remember that a lot of
[1:26:40] Speaker 1: the people who are saying these crazy things like are
[1:26:44] Speaker 1: otherwise normal people, but they've been brainwashed. They've been raised
[1:26:48] Speaker 1: to believe the nonsense.
[1:26:49] Speaker 10: Right.
[1:26:49] Speaker 1: So, for example, like I know very intelligent people, I
[1:26:53] Speaker 1: know people with PhDs who believe in the nonsense. I
[1:26:56] Speaker 1: know a medical doctor who's a devout Christian, right, So well,
[1:27:00] Speaker 1: like a lot of times these people they just don't
[1:27:03] Speaker 1: the amount of critical thinking that they use in everyday life.
[1:27:07] Speaker 1: They just don't apply it to the religion, right, because
[1:27:12] Speaker 1: they assume it's true. For the same reason that like,
[1:27:16] Speaker 1: once somebody gets really comfortable, like watching a particular news station,
[1:27:23] Speaker 1: they stop looking at the news station critical, but when
[1:27:25] Speaker 1: they see a different news station when they haven't seen before,
[1:27:29] Speaker 1: they're being rather critical of the article, especially if it's political. Right. So,
[1:27:34] Speaker 1: like we have blind spots where once we've learned to
[1:27:38] Speaker 1: trust something, we stop thinking critically about it. When we
[1:27:43] Speaker 1: don't do that with everything, Like normally we're actually pretty
[1:27:46] Speaker 1: critical thinkers, not that everyone's liked that. Some people don't
[1:27:49] Speaker 1: think critically at all, and those people do exist. But
[1:27:53] Speaker 1: I certainly think that the problem with religion is that
[1:27:56] Speaker 1: we get so comfortable giving it a past and assuming
[1:27:59] Speaker 1: it's true, that we just forget to apply logic to it. Now.
[1:28:04] Speaker 1: You know, for me, like I grew up so culturally
[1:28:08] Speaker 1: Christian that if if you would have asked me at
[1:28:11] Speaker 1: any point before I was a real Christian if I
[1:28:13] Speaker 1: believed in the Bible, I was say, yeah, of course,
[1:28:15] Speaker 1: it's the Bible. Bible's true, right, So even before I
[1:28:19] Speaker 1: had read the dang thing, I would have just told
[1:28:22] Speaker 1: you it's true because it's the Bible, because it's how
[1:28:24] Speaker 1: I was raised, right, I.
[1:28:29] Speaker 6: Mean that makes sense.
[1:28:31] Speaker 1: I mean.
[1:28:33] Speaker 13: I guess what started you on the path of deconstruction
[1:28:35] Speaker 13: was actually reading the Bible or was there.
[1:28:38] Speaker 6: More to it?
[1:28:40] Speaker 4: No?
[1:28:40] Speaker 1: For me, I think it was studying the Bible for sure.
[1:28:43] Speaker 6: Okay, so it was like the pendul at, you know,
[1:28:47] Speaker 6: read the Bible. Yeah, the kind of thing.
[1:28:51] Speaker 1: The Christians that I that I surrounded myself with were
[1:28:54] Speaker 1: decent people. And you know what I mean, Like I
[1:28:56] Speaker 1: didn't like, I knew that crazy Christians existed with justified
[1:29:00] Speaker 1: genocide nonsense. I didn't go to church with those people.
[1:29:04] Speaker 1: I went to church with very normal, decent people. So
[1:29:07] Speaker 1: like for me, I never like had I never had
[1:29:11] Speaker 1: to worry about Like I didn't think that Christianity was dangerous.
[1:29:14] Speaker 1: I didn't think that Christianity like was fundamentally bad for humanity.
[1:29:20] Speaker 1: Those are all opinions I gained after I deconstructed and
[1:29:24] Speaker 1: started to see how it warped people's brains the same
[1:29:28] Speaker 1: way you've probably seen where people, you know, normally decent
[1:29:32] Speaker 1: people can be convinced to do horrific things.
[1:29:37] Speaker 13: I mean, yeah, So back to this person that I
[1:29:40] Speaker 13: was talking about earlier, you know, I kind of saw
[1:29:43] Speaker 13: how it kind of devoured her and how it kids
[1:29:47] Speaker 13: kind of devoured.
[1:29:48] Speaker 6: I've taken on this.
[1:29:49] Speaker 13: View that like religion, and this doesn't apply to all
[1:29:53] Speaker 13: the religions, but like Islam and Christianity, they're almost predatory.
[1:30:00] Speaker 6: Yeah they have to be, but yeah, like they they smell.
[1:30:04] Speaker 13: It's almost like your your pain and your your suffering
[1:30:08] Speaker 13: and your insecurities and your weakness is like chump in
[1:30:12] Speaker 13: the water and these religions are like hungry sharks jumping
[1:30:17] Speaker 13: on it.
[1:30:17] Speaker 6: And it's it's very uh it's just a very scary thing. Anyway. Look,
[1:30:22] Speaker 6: that's that.
[1:30:22] Speaker 4: That's all I have.
[1:30:23] Speaker 6: I kind of just wanted to get that out there.
[1:30:27] Speaker 1: Good to hear from you and you know, best of luck.
[1:30:29] Speaker 1: Uh and you know, engaging in dialogue with some of
[1:30:32] Speaker 1: these people because it's it takes patience.
[1:30:35] Speaker 6: Yep, thank you very much.
[1:30:37] Speaker 1: Have a great one. All right, let me grab one
[1:30:43] Speaker 1: or two super chats and we'll move right on to
[1:30:45] Speaker 1: our next guest. We've got a couple of people that
[1:30:47] Speaker 1: have been waiting to get in. And Johanna says, I've
[1:30:50] Speaker 1: always known about selective hearing, but since started watching your show,
[1:30:53] Speaker 1: I've learned about selective reading. Yeah. With Christianity, it's not
[1:30:57] Speaker 1: just select it's not just selective reading. Literally, people that
[1:31:03] Speaker 1: are choosing purposely to not read, they are ignoring. And Jennifer,
[1:31:08] Speaker 1: thank you for the nine and any supertest, says lady
[1:31:10] Speaker 1: who did my tattoo is named Rocks. She must be
[1:31:13] Speaker 1: a prophetess of Doug. I guess that means I was
[1:31:16] Speaker 1: tattooed by one of Doug's disciples. Yes, exactly, Yeah, and
[1:31:19] Speaker 1: I know and I now have his rock solidness coursing
[1:31:24] Speaker 1: through my vein till dog, Jennifer, that makes me so happy.
[1:31:28] Speaker 1: I'm actually rock hard for your rocks tattoo artists, big
[1:31:35] Speaker 1: w and I hope you enjoy your tattoo. I don't
[1:31:38] Speaker 1: have any tattoos, but I love tattoos, but Doug hasn't
[1:31:42] Speaker 1: moved me to get any tattoos just yet. Sam says,
[1:31:45] Speaker 1: always great cooking here justin Thanks for all the great streams. Sam,
[1:31:49] Speaker 1: thanks so much for supporting the stream and for watching.
[1:31:52] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And Kay, thank you so much for
[1:31:54] Speaker 1: the five dollar Supertest says, thanks for what you do.
[1:31:56] Speaker 1: I'm thirty four on Deconstructed. When I was about fifteen,
[1:31:59] Speaker 1: you were smart me. You were way smarter than me.
[1:32:01] Speaker 1: When I was fifteen, I was making excuses. It isn't
[1:32:04] Speaker 1: easy and it caused many fights in my family. But
[1:32:07] Speaker 1: it's worth it, I agree, totally worth it. It will
[1:32:09] Speaker 1: cause fights, it will cause some disagreements here and there,
[1:32:13] Speaker 1: but that's that's how that works. Day one Len Die one,
[1:32:19] Speaker 1: Die one die. I'm want to call you die. Thank
[1:32:22] Speaker 1: you so for sending up five Deconstruction Zone gifted memberships.
[1:32:25] Speaker 1: I really do appreciate that and also still at tax
[1:32:28] Speaker 1: a bit good to see it tonight. Friend, it says
[1:32:30] Speaker 1: Diving in my new NRSV fifth edition. I feel sorry
[1:32:34] Speaker 1: for Christians who have piled this mountain of guilt and
[1:32:37] Speaker 1: fear onto their backs. Just why that's the craziest thing
[1:32:41] Speaker 1: is that they're legitimately piling guilt on top of themselves.
[1:32:46] Speaker 1: I had a roommate once that literally thought that if
[1:32:48] Speaker 1: he didn't repent of his sins every day, and then
[1:32:52] Speaker 1: if he died unrepentant, he would still go to Hell
[1:32:54] Speaker 1: despite being a Christian. Crazy Air thank you for the
[1:32:58] Speaker 1: ten hour supertest, says I greatly appreciate what you do here.
[1:33:00] Speaker 1: I was raised evangelical and was troubled with doubt. It
[1:33:03] Speaker 1: would drive me insane for good reason. It turns out
[1:33:07] Speaker 1: that there are problems. You have helped me a lot.
[1:33:09] Speaker 1: Ar I'm so glad you shared that with me. That
[1:33:12] Speaker 1: when you're in the faith and everyone is telling you
[1:33:14] Speaker 1: it's true, and you're reading it and you're like, don't
[1:33:17] Speaker 1: look true to me, it looks problematic to me. Just
[1:33:20] Speaker 1: know you're not the crazy one. You're like the only
[1:33:22] Speaker 1: one out there that's being rational. So I'm glad you
[1:33:25] Speaker 1: made it to the other side. With that, we're going
[1:33:29] Speaker 1: to bring Judy up with us.
[1:33:31] Speaker 4: How you doing, Jude?
[1:33:33] Speaker 10: Can you hear me now?
[1:33:34] Speaker 1: I can hear you now. Yeah, you must have your
[1:33:37] Speaker 1: technology worked out.
[1:33:39] Speaker 10: I switched over to my iPad.
[1:33:41] Speaker 1: Well it is absolutely working. So welcome in, Judy.
[1:33:45] Speaker 10: Cool. I don't have a whole lot. I want to
[1:33:49] Speaker 10: thank you for all that you're doing. You've been quite
[1:33:55] Speaker 10: the entertainment for me. Right now, I bedridden.
[1:34:00] Speaker 1: I'm sorry to hear that.
[1:34:01] Speaker 10: Oh it's it's God's pope anyway. So I just had
[1:34:12] Speaker 10: a couple of things when I when I was four,
[1:34:17] Speaker 10: before I made my first communion, my mother sent me
[1:34:22] Speaker 10: and my brother at church all the time. So one
[1:34:24] Speaker 10: day he said, oh, Judy, I think that's that's small
[1:34:28] Speaker 10: up there. So it made me go up. And I
[1:34:31] Speaker 10: didn't know what the heck I was doing, and I
[1:34:33] Speaker 10: hadn't done a communion, but I was kind of scared
[1:34:37] Speaker 10: because God was gonna send the lightning bolt down if
[1:34:42] Speaker 10: you go and have your first communion before you've been
[1:34:46] Speaker 10: whatever that process is, right. I went and I did it,
[1:34:50] Speaker 10: and I guess what doesn't happened? No, nothing, I knew.
[1:34:59] Speaker 10: I knew that that it was bs. I was just
[1:35:03] Speaker 10: a little kid and I knew it was just bs.
[1:35:08] Speaker 10: And the other night, my son and I were having
[1:35:13] Speaker 10: a conversation and he's talking about like the Bible religion
[1:35:19] Speaker 10: being more a cult as as opposed to anything else,
[1:35:26] Speaker 10: you know, just a way to control people. And and
[1:35:32] Speaker 10: he says, but he says, I don't like hearing that
[1:35:35] Speaker 10: there's no God. And I'm like, yeah, but you don't
[1:35:38] Speaker 10: call it God.
[1:35:39] Speaker 6: It's not what it is.
[1:35:40] Speaker 10: It's universal life energy. And we're all connected to each other,
[1:35:44] Speaker 10: every single one of us, every every plan, every everything.
[1:35:49] Speaker 10: We're just we're just all this energy and we're connected
[1:35:55] Speaker 10: to each other on many levels. And and that shows
[1:35:58] Speaker 10: up a lot just hanging out. And then the other
[1:36:03] Speaker 10: thing is Einstein.
[1:36:07] Speaker 2: He had.
[1:36:09] Speaker 10: Had an interview with somebody. It was like one of
[1:36:11] Speaker 10: his last interviews, and he talked about like the energy
[1:36:18] Speaker 10: and you know, I can't repeat it. And it's funny
[1:36:27] Speaker 10: because I have the same experience. Back in about ninety one,
[1:36:33] Speaker 10: I had a near death experience, and you know, and
[1:36:39] Speaker 10: I explained it to people like, you can't really you
[1:36:43] Speaker 10: don't have a brain to think, you don't have a
[1:36:45] Speaker 10: body to feel, you don't have anything you know that's substantials.
[1:36:51] Speaker 10: So you can't really explain what happened, but I knew
[1:36:57] Speaker 10: something happened. And then I don't know, about a month ago,
[1:37:01] Speaker 10: I listened to this thing of Einstein's and he said
[1:37:07] Speaker 10: it pretty well, it's kind of like, you know, the energy,
[1:37:10] Speaker 10: because we're all energy, every bit, every one of us.
[1:37:13] Speaker 10: We all have our energy, and he talks about how
[1:37:17] Speaker 10: it kind of continues on.
[1:37:21] Speaker 1: But I don't I'm thinking that that. Yeah, I've never
[1:37:26] Speaker 1: heard that quote before.
[1:37:29] Speaker 10: Yeah, well it's it's just it's actually a whole story
[1:37:32] Speaker 10: about from the guy who took the interview. The interview
[1:37:36] Speaker 10: was in fifty four and he died in fifty five.
[1:37:42] Speaker 10: But yeah, I found it on the you know, on YouTube.
[1:37:49] Speaker 1: Do you believe in like universal consciousness?
[1:37:55] Speaker 5: I'm not.
[1:37:59] Speaker 10: Kind of orda. I believe that that we are all.
[1:38:06] Speaker 10: You know, like if you if you start with the
[1:38:08] Speaker 10: Big Bang, you know, I mean whatever was there, you know,
[1:38:13] Speaker 10: I mean energy does it? You can't get rid of
[1:38:16] Speaker 10: it and you can't add to it type thing.
[1:38:19] Speaker 1: So yeah, it can't be created or destroyed.
[1:38:22] Speaker 10: Yeah, and so the whole idea of we all started
[1:38:28] Speaker 10: from exactly the same thing, all of us, and you know,
[1:38:32] Speaker 10: how we evolved or whatever is almost mood. It's it's
[1:38:36] Speaker 10: you know, I don't believe that there's any kind of
[1:38:43] Speaker 10: guy with a long beard or anybody that has any
[1:38:46] Speaker 10: kind of control. I think it's it's us who does.
[1:38:51] Speaker 1: That's certainly not a guy up there who's like concerned
[1:38:53] Speaker 1: about what you're doing with yourself in your bedroom. That's crazy.
[1:38:58] Speaker 10: Exactly. But I think it's it's the important thing is
[1:39:03] Speaker 10: trying to pull people together.
[1:39:06] Speaker 1: I'm all about that, Judy. I want to bring people together,
[1:39:09] Speaker 1: not not divide people. That's why I want to get
[1:39:11] Speaker 1: rid of religions. Religions divide people and it causes us
[1:39:16] Speaker 1: to have animosity where there really doesn't need to be
[1:39:18] Speaker 1: any correct.
[1:39:23] Speaker 10: But I've just been listening to you for a while
[1:39:26] Speaker 10: and you've been an inspiration, and I've listened to other
[1:39:32] Speaker 10: people and I find myself safe. Yeah, but bring up
[1:39:35] Speaker 10: the slaves or stuff like that when they're when they're
[1:39:40] Speaker 10: talking to other U.
[1:39:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate that, Judy. It's very kind of you.
[1:39:48] Speaker 10: And then your your joy to listen to.
[1:39:53] Speaker 1: Well, big w thank you for listening and w.
[1:39:58] Speaker 5: What's that?
[1:39:59] Speaker 10: What is big w?
[1:40:01] Speaker 2: Oh?
[1:40:02] Speaker 1: That just means big win? Okay, cool, Sorry, it's a
[1:40:07] Speaker 1: it's a sports term, but it gets used a lot online.
[1:40:11] Speaker 10: No, I'm sixty six years old, so I'm a little
[1:40:16] Speaker 10: bit behind.
[1:40:18] Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I get it. I I walk in
[1:40:21] Speaker 1: the conversations online with gen Z and I have no
[1:40:23] Speaker 1: idea what's happening. I have to inquire myself. I'm no
[1:40:27] Speaker 1: spring Chicken anymore either. But listen, you're here and you're
[1:40:31] Speaker 1: you know you're you're learning and you're so I mean,
[1:40:35] Speaker 1: definitely a win for you for for being out here
[1:40:38] Speaker 1: and learning and growing.
[1:40:42] Speaker 10: Well, I just wanted to I've been dying to talk
[1:40:45] Speaker 10: to you, just to say hey and to say thank you.
[1:40:49] Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Judy. I really appreciate it. And definitely,
[1:40:53] Speaker 1: if you're interested, join our discord. There's a link in
[1:40:56] Speaker 1: my profile through discord. It's an offline community where we
[1:41:01] Speaker 1: talk about a lot of these subjects and you can
[1:41:03] Speaker 1: direct message people there.
[1:41:06] Speaker 10: Okay, I will try to find it. I believe I've
[1:41:10] Speaker 10: subscribed to you too. I think you have two channels,
[1:41:15] Speaker 10: and I subscribe. Well, I subscribe to you regardless. Thank
[1:41:21] Speaker 10: you so much, so I'll go dig in for it
[1:41:23] Speaker 10: and thank you very much.
[1:41:26] Speaker 1: Hey, thanks, have a great one, Judy light Well, she
[1:41:34] Speaker 1: was delightful. Big W for Judy. I'm glad she stopped
[1:41:38] Speaker 1: in uh to say hi and uh designed good to
[1:41:43] Speaker 1: see it tonight. Thank you so much for the supertest,
[1:41:45] Speaker 1: says if the world has finely tuned, God's true nature
[1:41:47] Speaker 1: is that of the kid that shakes the ant farm daily.
[1:41:52] Speaker 1: I think that's it. The fine tinue argument always falls
[1:41:55] Speaker 1: apart once you start talking about what's happening here on
[1:41:57] Speaker 1: the earth. It doesn't turn out well. And Kip, thank
[1:42:00] Speaker 1: you for sending up five DZ memberships. I really appreciate that.
[1:42:03] Speaker 1: It's super generous, Big W and d Banks Design, Big,
[1:42:10] Speaker 1: big W, thank you so fucking much for the one
[1:42:13] Speaker 1: hundred dollars super chat. Super appreciate the support, says love
[1:42:17] Speaker 1: the host, love the info, but most of all, the
[1:42:21] Speaker 1: Christian comedians that continually come on and get cooked laughs
[1:42:24] Speaker 1: are always needed. To appreciate the best channel on YouTube. Well,
[1:42:27] Speaker 1: thank you so much, d Banks Design. I totally appreciate that,
[1:42:32] Speaker 1: and thanks for watching, Thanks for supporting, and thanks for
[1:42:35] Speaker 1: cheering on. We're going to keep cooking and we got
[1:42:38] Speaker 1: people in the queue waiting to come in and the
[1:42:40] Speaker 1: barred one. Thank you for the supertest, says Hey, justin
[1:42:43] Speaker 1: if you haven't already, could you please give your take
[1:42:46] Speaker 1: on doctor Hillman and what's going on in Mark fourteen
[1:42:49] Speaker 1: fifty one. So this is a passage where Jesus is
[1:42:51] Speaker 1: theoretically discovered with a young boy, you know, who's not
[1:42:56] Speaker 1: fully clothed. But that's not really the way the story reads.
[1:42:59] Speaker 1: Doctor Hillman is a mook. He has no idea what
[1:43:02] Speaker 1: he's talking about. He just says sensationalized stuff to get noticed.
[1:43:07] Speaker 1: He's a goof. He has no biblical training. He shouldn't
[1:43:11] Speaker 1: be reading the Bible. He knows Greek, and that's great,
[1:43:14] Speaker 1: but that does not really helpful. So anyways, Uh, there
[1:43:18] Speaker 1: in Mark, there's a story of a boy when when
[1:43:21] Speaker 1: they're when the soldiers are coming for Jesus and his
[1:43:24] Speaker 1: disciples and they they're grabbing hold of everybody. They grab
[1:43:28] Speaker 1: hold of this young man who you know, has got
[1:43:31] Speaker 1: like just a single piece tunic or you know, a sheet,
[1:43:37] Speaker 1: and he runs off in order to escape. He runs
[1:43:40] Speaker 1: off and it's of naked, right, And a lot of
[1:43:43] Speaker 1: people had suggested, well, this is like Jesus doing nefarious
[1:43:46] Speaker 1: stuff with young men, you know, it's pederasty. Uh, that
[1:43:49] Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be the case. My personal opinion, I
[1:43:52] Speaker 1: think Richard Balcom has the best explanation of this passage.
[1:43:59] Speaker 1: He wrote about it in Jesus and the Eyewitnesses. It's
[1:44:02] Speaker 1: an apologetic book, but I like his explanation. He gives
[1:44:07] Speaker 1: multiple explanations. My personal favorite explanation, which I've heard elsewhere,
[1:44:12] Speaker 1: is that most likely this was such a well known story,
[1:44:16] Speaker 1: like the early community that knew Mark and Mark's audience,
[1:44:22] Speaker 1: they knew about this. The young man in the community
[1:44:25] Speaker 1: that like had to escape in such a way that
[1:44:29] Speaker 1: he ended up naked. How do you how do you
[1:44:31] Speaker 1: not notice that?
[1:44:32] Speaker 4: Right?
[1:44:33] Speaker 1: But one of the things that Mark probably did in
[1:44:36] Speaker 1: order to hide his identity was not give his name.
[1:44:40] Speaker 1: But probably it was kind of like, hey, so and
[1:44:43] Speaker 1: so was there, just so you know, I can't tell
[1:44:45] Speaker 1: you who it was because I'm you know, I'm not
[1:44:47] Speaker 1: giving away the names of all these people that were
[1:44:50] Speaker 1: there lest they'd be rounded up and persecuted. But this
[1:44:54] Speaker 1: this kid was there, and you all know the kid.
[1:44:56] Speaker 1: You all know who I'm talking about. He was the
[1:44:57] Speaker 1: one that ran away to any kid, right, So that's
[1:45:00] Speaker 1: one excuse or one explanation. Another explanation could be that
[1:45:03] Speaker 1: it's an allegorical take, and that certainly could be the case.
[1:45:07] Speaker 1: It could be an allegory for something else. I don't
[1:45:09] Speaker 1: know what it would be an allegory for, but a
[1:45:11] Speaker 1: lot of scholars have endeavored to tell you what they think.
[1:45:14] Speaker 1: It's an allegory for Saint Brush, says big Win Judy.
[1:45:19] Speaker 1: Hail Judy. I agree, big Win, Judy, big Win, Jugy.
[1:45:23] Speaker 1: Leaving religion is tough, and you know, hanging around with
[1:45:30] Speaker 1: us Heathens can be tough sometimes as well. And quantum binoids.
[1:45:38] Speaker 1: Thank you for the juper chest and says Hail Doug.
[1:45:40] Speaker 1: And thank you justin you keep me calm while driving
[1:45:42] Speaker 1: with tongues speakers and End Times prophecy. Keep up what
[1:45:46] Speaker 1: you do. I can't imagine going on a road trip
[1:45:49] Speaker 1: with people speaking in tongues. I went to a church
[1:45:50] Speaker 1: where people spoke in tongues and it was wild. It
[1:45:54] Speaker 1: was absolutely wild. But all the best to you and Johannah,
[1:45:57] Speaker 1: thank you again for the supertests. Believers should read The
[1:46:00] Speaker 1: Naked Ape. The book is almost sixty years old but
[1:46:03] Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense now. I wish I had
[1:46:04] Speaker 1: read it, because I actually don't know what is in
[1:46:07] Speaker 1: the Naked Ape, but it sounds interesting, So thank you
[1:46:11] Speaker 1: for suggestion. I always get good book recommendations here. Thank you.
[1:46:14] Speaker 1: Joanne would definitely give it a look. And now we've
[1:46:19] Speaker 1: got Nate with us. How do Nate?
[1:46:23] Speaker 6: Hi?
[1:46:24] Speaker 14: Are you able to hear me?
[1:46:25] Speaker 4: Yeah?
[1:46:26] Speaker 1: I can hear you. I think we're good.
[1:46:28] Speaker 5: Okay, good? Yeah.
[1:46:29] Speaker 4: I know.
[1:46:29] Speaker 14: Last week I was here, I got absolutely roasted by
[1:46:33] Speaker 14: the discord chat like, but either way, I just wanted
[1:46:38] Speaker 14: to just ask a few things more about clarity, because
[1:46:42] Speaker 14: even just the word deconstruction I had initially just interpreted
[1:46:46] Speaker 14: that to be like in philosophy there's Dreda who was
[1:46:51] Speaker 14: like an anti realist deconstructionist, where he didn't even like
[1:46:54] Speaker 14: everything is a word game, but you're talking more about
[1:46:57] Speaker 14: faith deconstruction when it comes to more not so much
[1:47:03] Speaker 14: constructing everything, but simply deconstructing, like sort of re into
[1:47:10] Speaker 14: reprogramming what you were learned that simply isn't true. Is
[1:47:15] Speaker 14: that more correct?
[1:47:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean a little bit.
[1:47:18] Speaker 4: So.
[1:47:18] Speaker 1: The idea of deconstruction, which is kind of like what
[1:47:21] Speaker 1: we do as seminary in public college, is like we're
[1:47:25] Speaker 1: given like a fully completed house, right, So the act
[1:47:30] Speaker 1: of deconstruction is saying Listen, we got this house. Maybe
[1:47:34] Speaker 1: the bones are rotten, maybe the sighting needs replaced, maybe
[1:47:38] Speaker 1: the windows need double pained. So the idea is like, listen,
[1:47:43] Speaker 1: we're gonna take this all down. We're gonna strip it
[1:47:45] Speaker 1: down to the studs, and we're going to see what
[1:47:47] Speaker 1: part of this should is worth keeping, what part of
[1:47:50] Speaker 1: this makes sense, and what part of it doesn't make sense.
[1:47:53] Speaker 1: So we're literally taking it apart. We're reverse engineering it
[1:47:57] Speaker 1: in a way, and we're saying, okay, is what we've
[1:48:01] Speaker 1: been given. Does it make sense?
[1:48:05] Speaker 6: Yeah?
[1:48:05] Speaker 4: No, I agree.
[1:48:06] Speaker 14: I just know that in like, like I'm just saying, like,
[1:48:09] Speaker 14: if you even look at Wikipedia, the type of deconstruction
[1:48:12] Speaker 14: that you see is not the same kind that like
[1:48:15] Speaker 14: it sounds more faith deconstruction. There was like this kind
[1:48:18] Speaker 14: of anti realist movement, but it's it's it's semantics at
[1:48:21] Speaker 14: this point. But another couple of things I just wanted
[1:48:25] Speaker 14: to ask. I agree that like the term transcendentals like
[1:48:29] Speaker 14: philosophy bros Have used it like kind of you know,
[1:48:33] Speaker 14: to kind of mean abstract, fixed things, But I had
[1:48:36] Speaker 14: heard of the term emergent properties, and I felt like
[1:48:39] Speaker 14: that kind of even if it's not like like the
[1:48:44] Speaker 14: best thing that you know, it's it describes everything. Like
[1:48:47] Speaker 14: I feel like the idea that there are emergent orders
[1:48:51] Speaker 14: of things, like of simply justice, because you talked about
[1:48:56] Speaker 14: occasionally like good and bad can be subjective to us,
[1:49:00] Speaker 14: but like you can't deny justice. So when arguing God
[1:49:03] Speaker 14: and stuff, like if you're saying that, you know, we
[1:49:06] Speaker 14: can say that it feels good or bad, but if
[1:49:09] Speaker 14: we're talking about like genocide, the reason why we can't
[1:49:13] Speaker 14: just say it's subjective there is because like justice exists.
[1:49:18] Speaker 14: And I was just wondering if that if that follows
[1:49:20] Speaker 14: or I'm just kind of getting too much into some
[1:49:22] Speaker 14: philosophy bro content myself.
[1:49:25] Speaker 1: So I do like what you said. First of all,
[1:49:27] Speaker 1: good and bad are inherently subjective, and sometimes even justice
[1:49:32] Speaker 1: is subjective because the idea of justice is that everyone
[1:49:35] Speaker 1: gets or doesn't get what they deserve, and so the
[1:49:39] Speaker 1: question is sometimes what do they deserve? Like we don't
[1:49:43] Speaker 1: always know, like for example, we don't always agree on
[1:49:46] Speaker 1: what the punishment might be for a crime, but we
[1:49:48] Speaker 1: do agree that the idea of justice is that everyone
[1:49:52] Speaker 1: should have some sort of fair treatment.
[1:49:55] Speaker 11: Right.
[1:49:57] Speaker 1: But to me, I find this to be just like
[1:50:00] Speaker 1: the laws of logic. I think these are prescriptive. Justice
[1:50:03] Speaker 1: only exists because we've defined something that we believe in
[1:50:08] Speaker 1: and we just happen to call it justice. And I
[1:50:12] Speaker 1: think animals have a sense of justice as well, Like
[1:50:15] Speaker 1: we've done studies with animals these yeah, yeah, they seem
[1:50:18] Speaker 1: to have a sense of justice. Yeah, they know.
[1:50:21] Speaker 14: And and it's like what I've learned also is just
[1:50:24] Speaker 14: like at least in my mind, when I hear subjective
[1:50:27] Speaker 14: or relative, like my mind initially jumps to relativism, but
[1:50:31] Speaker 14: I think of it like in economics, there's relative, there's
[1:50:34] Speaker 14: like subjective value, but it doesn't mean that it is
[1:50:37] Speaker 14: a subjectivism. And I just wanted to make sure that,
[1:50:41] Speaker 14: like you know, you don't as like if anything like
[1:50:44] Speaker 14: objectivism or something would be prior to even like God
[1:50:48] Speaker 14: or maybe it's I'm not articulating it well, but I
[1:50:54] Speaker 14: guess the other last thing, because obviously you have other people.
[1:50:59] Speaker 14: I just wanted to ask also about just I don't
[1:51:02] Speaker 14: know if you've heard of you may have heard of
[1:51:05] Speaker 14: Yung and the idea of rights of passage and maturity
[1:51:08] Speaker 14: and growth. There's also people like Eliad and ritual theory
[1:51:15] Speaker 14: and Rudolph Auto and numinosity, And I was just wondering
[1:51:20] Speaker 14: if there's any other ideas that while you can certainly,
[1:51:24] Speaker 14: you know, if the Bibles a historical, you know what,
[1:51:28] Speaker 14: maybe can you take out of it, if you know,
[1:51:31] Speaker 14: even a consolation that can help I think, you know,
[1:51:35] Speaker 14: help the you know, help people flourish from learning about
[1:51:40] Speaker 14: the cognitive side of religion.
[1:51:43] Speaker 1: Sure, so, like Yung and people that came after, had
[1:51:47] Speaker 1: this idea of, like, we have these archetypals narratives that
[1:51:54] Speaker 1: keep showing up over and over again, and it seems
[1:51:56] Speaker 1: like we humans have this pro pensity to be drawn
[1:52:01] Speaker 1: towards archetypes. And some scholars have written about this. There's
[1:52:05] Speaker 1: a card named Daniel Hawk who wrote a commentary on
[1:52:09] Speaker 1: Joshua that sort of dug into some of the classic
[1:52:14] Speaker 1: archetypes and how they show up in the Bible. And
[1:52:19] Speaker 1: he had this idea that, like, the reason why these
[1:52:23] Speaker 1: archetypes show up the Bible is because they so well
[1:52:27] Speaker 1: transmit and communicate some of the most important principles that
[1:52:31] Speaker 1: are being taught in the Bible. So this idea that,
[1:52:35] Speaker 1: you know, people that are lowest on the food chain
[1:52:38] Speaker 1: shouldn't be oppressed. The idea that finding somebody that you
[1:52:45] Speaker 1: truly love is a worthwhile endeavor, even if it's painful.
[1:52:51] Speaker 1: So like, but his point of view was not that
[1:52:56] Speaker 1: God planned it or that these are transcendental or anything
[1:52:59] Speaker 1: like that, but just that these are our values that
[1:53:02] Speaker 1: we developed as human beings living in society, and so
[1:53:06] Speaker 1: they're somewhat subjective. And but I do agree with that.
[1:53:11] Speaker 1: I think there we can find these like people in
[1:53:16] Speaker 1: the Bible that embody these archetypes, and they communicate really
[1:53:21] Speaker 1: good messages to us. Now, of course sometimes they communicate
[1:53:25] Speaker 1: bad messages. But like if you're reading Judges when and
[1:53:29] Speaker 1: you see where the people of Israel are are being
[1:53:32] Speaker 1: attacked and j L invites you know, us a leader
[1:53:38] Speaker 1: into the tent to supposedly rest uh and then you
[1:53:44] Speaker 1: know sneaks a tent peg and puts it through his head.
[1:53:49] Speaker 1: We have this story of like this no name, non
[1:53:54] Speaker 1: hero who becomes the hero of the story. We love
[1:53:57] Speaker 1: that kind of shit, like it just is such a
[1:53:58] Speaker 1: good heart, right, Yeah, And I guess just with that, I.
[1:54:07] Speaker 14: Also just wanted to point out you were talking about
[1:54:10] Speaker 14: Jehovah's Witnesses x JW Panda Tower. He has a ten
[1:54:14] Speaker 14: minute like all in one like the story of Jehovah's witnesses.
[1:54:18] Speaker 14: It is insane. And I was also just just looking into,
[1:54:25] Speaker 14: you know, there's a good reason all the excommunication that
[1:54:31] Speaker 14: Jehovah's witnesses does. They are the you know, arguably them
[1:54:36] Speaker 14: and Christian scientists are some of the bottom of the
[1:54:39] Speaker 14: barrel when it comes to their ethical practices. So just
[1:54:43] Speaker 14: you know, if anyone is interested in what not to do,
[1:54:47] Speaker 14: I would just you know, highly recommend just knowing not
[1:54:51] Speaker 14: to go there. That's all.
[1:54:54] Speaker 1: And yeah, thank you.
[1:54:57] Speaker 14: And also maybe I'd like to hear a little bit
[1:54:59] Speaker 14: about the Holy trend and ideas because it's very hard
[1:55:04] Speaker 14: to talk to people because they're so sure of themselves.
[1:55:06] Speaker 14: And I don't know on your on your bad Bible guide,
[1:55:14] Speaker 14: I'm a subscriber. I just thought you I definitely want
[1:55:18] Speaker 14: to look into you know, that area too, because it's
[1:55:22] Speaker 14: just so just paradoxical at face value.
[1:55:26] Speaker 4: But that's all.
[1:55:27] Speaker 1: Well, I agree, And I think the problem with the
[1:55:29] Speaker 1: Trinity is most kindergarteners can see the issue. One plus
[1:55:34] Speaker 1: one plus one is just three, right, So if if
[1:55:37] Speaker 1: God is one and Jesus's one in the Holy Spirit
[1:55:41] Speaker 1: is one, then in fact you've got three gods, and
[1:55:45] Speaker 1: you might be inclined to think, well, no, no, no,
[1:55:48] Speaker 1: because they're parts of God. Is like a three in
[1:55:50] Speaker 1: one shampoo or you know, or like it's an eggshell
[1:55:54] Speaker 1: plus a yoke plus up you know, the the egg white, right.
[1:55:59] Speaker 1: But I mean, that's just a heresy that was rejected
[1:56:01] Speaker 1: pretty early by the Church.
[1:56:03] Speaker 14: And there's areas that it even says in scripture I
[1:56:06] Speaker 14: and the Father are one, and it also says the
[1:56:09] Speaker 14: Father is greater than me, where it's Jesus speaking and
[1:56:13] Speaker 14: I just for the life of me, there is a
[1:56:15] Speaker 14: direct contradiction. So it's not like I mean, it's like
[1:56:20] Speaker 14: words don't mean words as you say all the time.
[1:56:23] Speaker 14: And I just couldn't agree more that. Like they can
[1:56:25] Speaker 14: say it's an identity, you know, logic thing, but I
[1:56:29] Speaker 14: just yeah, I just really thought that, you know, it's
[1:56:34] Speaker 14: so easy to go into that, and some people are
[1:56:38] Speaker 14: just so you know, I yeah, it's kindergartener logic.
[1:56:43] Speaker 1: And so the the the idea of partialism that God
[1:56:49] Speaker 1: has parts is condemned super early in the Church. It's
[1:56:53] Speaker 1: a heresy, the idea, and people are already saying in
[1:56:57] Speaker 1: the compant's the idea that well, it's not that God
[1:56:59] Speaker 1: is a parts more like the phases of water like
[1:57:02] Speaker 1: but that's another heresy, that's modalism God, because modalism couldn't
[1:57:07] Speaker 1: be true because then Jesus would not be praying to
[1:57:10] Speaker 1: anybody when he was here on the earth. So in
[1:57:13] Speaker 1: order for Jesus to be praying to somebody while he's
[1:57:15] Speaker 1: here on the earth, there must be somebody for him
[1:57:17] Speaker 1: to pray to. And that leads you back to the
[1:57:19] Speaker 1: same conclusion, which is that there obviously is more than
[1:57:22] Speaker 1: one entity.
[1:57:24] Speaker 14: Yeah, and it's just you know, it's just at face value,
[1:57:28] Speaker 14: that's what the words are saying. And yeah, just I
[1:57:31] Speaker 14: think that for me the clearest evidence that when people
[1:57:35] Speaker 14: are you know, making up stuff like if words mean
[1:57:39] Speaker 14: something at face value, this is at least for me,
[1:57:42] Speaker 14: the easiest to just point out because but I digress. Yeah,
[1:57:47] Speaker 14: and I know you have other people in the queue,
[1:57:49] Speaker 14: So thank you so much, and I wish you and
[1:57:54] Speaker 14: your audience the best.
[1:57:56] Speaker 1: I think so much. I appreciate it good to hear
[1:57:58] Speaker 1: from men. Thank you, Cheo's friend. The Trinity is such
[1:58:05] Speaker 1: a fun topic. It doesn't come up in debate often enough.
[1:58:09] Speaker 1: I used to run just a Trinity background. Maybe we'll
[1:58:13] Speaker 1: do it again soon. Taylor, thank you for the supertest, says,
[1:58:15] Speaker 1: for someone who believes in a necessary being, he certainly
[1:58:17] Speaker 1: isn't very sure what he believes in, or at least
[1:58:21] Speaker 1: not necessarily so good, such a great plan on words.
[1:58:27] Speaker 1: I really appreciate that. I love a good joke, and
[1:58:30] Speaker 1: I agree with space Lords says to prove also, logic
[1:58:33] Speaker 1: would require logic. You nailed it right. It's to become
[1:58:36] Speaker 1: circular at some point. And e Boogie says, thank you
[1:58:39] Speaker 1: for helping me see the not light interesting? I can
[1:58:46] Speaker 1: I feel like that's the contradiction. Can you see that
[1:58:49] Speaker 1: without light? I think you need light. I could be wrong.
[1:58:52] Speaker 1: Soil Texas an ever shrinking, vacuous, tiny spot on the
[1:58:58] Speaker 1: unknown of the unknown in my brain is where God
[1:59:01] Speaker 1: is hiding. Checkmate atheists, Oh, Phylah, listen, Phila, that is
[1:59:08] Speaker 1: where God exists in the vacuous parts of the brain.
[1:59:11] Speaker 1: You are actually correct there, and Lou says John two
[1:59:14] Speaker 1: fourteen through sixteen, Mark and Luke. The temple's courtyard marketplace
[1:59:19] Speaker 1: spread over acres and was guarded one man alone. Driving
[1:59:24] Speaker 1: merchants out is extraordinary. Yeah, So, referring to so John
[1:59:29] Speaker 1: chapter two, also Luke chapter I'm not Luke, I mean
[1:59:33] Speaker 1: Matthew chapter twenty three. We get this crazy narrative of
[1:59:38] Speaker 1: Jesus driving people out of the temple, which is insane. Listen,
[1:59:42] Speaker 1: this is a large like structure, like hundreds and hundreds
[1:59:46] Speaker 1: of people there keeping track of shit. The idea that
[1:59:52] Speaker 1: this guy is gonna come on this lonsome and drive
[1:59:55] Speaker 1: everybody out of the temple is absurd. On his face,
[1:59:58] Speaker 1: they would have arrested this clown, which is why the
[2:00:02] Speaker 1: story doesn't even show up in the beginning in John.
[2:00:05] Speaker 1: The clearing of the temple shows up at the beginning
[2:00:07] Speaker 1: of Jesus' ministry, the very beginning. In Matthew and elsewhere,
[2:00:11] Speaker 1: it's it's at the end. It's like right before he dies.
[2:00:14] Speaker 1: Noise solution to this that Christians have is that, well,
[2:00:17] Speaker 1: he cleared the tumple twice. Yeah, yeah, I didn't believe
[2:00:19] Speaker 1: that he did it once. You're trying to tell me
[2:00:21] Speaker 1: he did it twice. You're crazy and holda Furfey's sent
[2:00:26] Speaker 1: tendzy memberships big w hola. I really appreciate that. That's
[2:00:30] Speaker 1: very generous, And SAMs Park says, at least he didn't tell. Sorry, yell,
[2:00:34] Speaker 1: stop talking over me. Happy Ascension Day Eve to all
[2:00:38] Speaker 1: of us heathens. Yeah, that's going to happen before the
[2:00:41] Speaker 1: night's over. There's going to be somebody literally shouting at me.
[2:00:45] Speaker 1: That's going to be the course of events. Let me
[2:00:49] Speaker 1: get our let me get our next guest in here,
[2:01:00] Speaker 1: and we've got Mike with us. Now, how you do Mike?
[2:01:04] Speaker 9: Hello? So I wanted to ask you about what's your
[2:01:07] Speaker 9: belief about biological sex versus gender?
[2:01:11] Speaker 1: Well, I debate atheism. So does something you want to
[2:01:14] Speaker 1: talk about.
[2:01:17] Speaker 9: Well, it refers to Christianity because you don't believe in that,
[2:01:20] Speaker 9: and you follow atheism, so that would refer to that
[2:01:23] Speaker 9: because most atheists believe that they are infinite genders.
[2:01:26] Speaker 1: So well, I don't believe in infinite genders. I think
[2:01:31] Speaker 1: you're misusing the words. Also, I don't know if you're
[2:01:35] Speaker 1: if you're lost, but I'm not a biologist. Did you
[2:01:38] Speaker 1: want to talk about atheism?
[2:01:39] Speaker 9: Oh no, that's fine, So we talk about your Oh yeah,
[2:01:44] Speaker 9: I'll talk about your morals and your belief So what
[2:01:46] Speaker 9: agenders do you believe exist?
[2:01:49] Speaker 1: So you're not going to actually engage in the debate,
[2:01:51] Speaker 1: You're just going to keep what do you believe? You're
[2:01:54] Speaker 1: just going to keep going to transphobic arguments, So.
[2:01:57] Speaker 9: What's what do you believe? There's so we're.
[2:02:01] Speaker 1: Talking about the existence of a God and you're like
[2:02:05] Speaker 1: intentionally running away from it. Did you actually want to
[2:02:07] Speaker 1: talk about? Yes, if you believe, so that's the topic. Right.
[2:02:15] Speaker 1: So I don't believe in God. I don't believe that
[2:02:18] Speaker 1: God created anything. So the first question I would have
[2:02:22] Speaker 1: then is what would be the convincing evidence or argument
[2:02:25] Speaker 1: that would lead one to the resurrection?
[2:02:28] Speaker 4: Cool?
[2:02:29] Speaker 1: I don't believe that he resurrected, So what's the evidence
[2:02:31] Speaker 1: that he resurrected?
[2:02:32] Speaker 9: Okay, you don't believe it? So when what's your opinion
[2:02:34] Speaker 9: of gender? Then? Because you don't believe that, what do
[2:02:36] Speaker 9: you believe?
[2:02:37] Speaker 1: Then I'm talking about the resurrection? Right? So why would
[2:02:40] Speaker 1: I believe that a man raised from the.
[2:02:42] Speaker 9: Dead because he has got in the flesh of man.
[2:02:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't believe that to be the case though, right,
[2:02:48] Speaker 1: So you'd have to establish that first, Like if you
[2:02:51] Speaker 1: believed he was God, then yes, I can see why
[2:02:54] Speaker 1: you would think that, Well, if he is God, he
[2:02:56] Speaker 1: could resurrect, but you haven't established that part yet.
[2:03:00] Speaker 9: So which part do you on? You where Josephus said
[2:03:02] Speaker 9: it or the other scribes that said it that recorded
[2:03:05] Speaker 9: it at the time.
[2:03:06] Speaker 1: Well, Josephus didn't actually say it. We've got multiple editions
[2:03:10] Speaker 1: of Josephus. And funny that the earliest quotations from antiquities
[2:03:15] Speaker 1: of the Jews chapter eighteen, specifically from the early Church
[2:03:20] Speaker 1: prior to the fourth century, don't mention any of that.
[2:03:24] Speaker 1: All of it seems to have come long after that
[2:03:27] Speaker 1: and is deserved.
[2:03:29] Speaker 9: Where's the evidence for that from the chollars who research
[2:03:31] Speaker 9: the text?
[2:03:32] Speaker 1: And is preserved in multiple language and none of them
[2:03:35] Speaker 1: actually matched. Now, most scholars I know of tend to
[2:03:39] Speaker 1: go by the Arabic version. They don't typically go by
[2:03:43] Speaker 1: the Greek version. The Greek version was the one that
[2:03:45] Speaker 1: was kept by the Early Church, and the first manufacture
[2:03:50] Speaker 1: we have of the Greek version that includes this nonsense
[2:03:54] Speaker 1: about Josephus believing that Jesus is a Christ comes from
[2:03:59] Speaker 1: the actual early Church. It comes quite literally from the
[2:04:03] Speaker 1: first Church historian Eusebius. What it doesn't come from are
[2:04:07] Speaker 1: actual documents from Josephus. So, uh again, I think that's
[2:04:13] Speaker 1: that's not a great argument and origin himself in like
[2:04:17] Speaker 1: one ninety one eighty or the beginning of the third century,
[2:04:20] Speaker 1: about two hundred, writing on the topic, literally says that
[2:04:24] Speaker 1: Josephus denied Jesus was a Christ.
[2:04:28] Speaker 9: Yeah, you can deny it, but it was still recorded
[2:04:30] Speaker 9: as being true. Well, you know, you can deny something
[2:04:33] Speaker 9: being true, it still happens, like biological sex.
[2:04:35] Speaker 1: How you rigin thoroughly. Origin thoroughly reads and quotes from Josephus,
[2:04:44] Speaker 1: and he said in his reading of Josephus that Josephus
[2:04:48] Speaker 1: did not believe that Jesus was a Christ, which is
[2:04:50] Speaker 1: obvious because he's not a Jew. So quoting Josephus isn't
[2:04:55] Speaker 1: a great source for determining it.
[2:04:57] Speaker 9: The point was actually rose from that he's a source
[2:05:00] Speaker 9: where he disagrees with the faith that he quotes it
[2:05:03] Speaker 9: happening and the people saying that it happened.
[2:05:06] Speaker 1: That's why I'm saying, he doesn't quote that it happened.
[2:05:08] Speaker 1: In fact, we don't even know what his original quote
[2:05:10] Speaker 1: was because the documents that we have of book eighteen
[2:05:15] Speaker 1: all contradict themselves. We've got, you know, a dozen different
[2:05:19] Speaker 1: manuscripts and they don't say the same thing.
[2:05:22] Speaker 9: Okay, where does it say this. Where's like the scholarly
[2:05:25] Speaker 9: studies that show that they haven't they even altered.
[2:05:27] Speaker 10: Or so on.
[2:05:27] Speaker 1: You can just get a critical edition of the Josephus
[2:05:32] Speaker 1: Antiquities of the Jews. You can also look at the
[2:05:34] Speaker 1: styametrical analysis. S Dimetric analysis has determined that the language
[2:05:38] Speaker 1: used in book eighteen in the Testimony of Flavianum is
[2:05:42] Speaker 1: not native to the rest of Josephus's works. It's clearly
[2:05:46] Speaker 1: an insertion. So it's not really I have no reason
[2:05:50] Speaker 1: to believe that Josephus inserted that or said that. But
[2:05:54] Speaker 1: even if he did, it still doesn't prove that Jesus
[2:05:58] Speaker 1: reservation from dead, being that he wasn't there, being that
[2:06:01] Speaker 1: he didn't actually say he resurrected from the dead, and
[2:06:04] Speaker 1: being that resurrection accounts in the ancient world were a
[2:06:08] Speaker 1: diamond dozen.
[2:06:10] Speaker 9: Okay, where is this a dime ad dozen? Because you're
[2:06:13] Speaker 9: saying they all resurrected. There's all these claims. Were these
[2:06:15] Speaker 9: other claims coming from like the coffeecat Jesus. Where's there's
[2:06:19] Speaker 9: a bunch.
[2:06:20] Speaker 1: There's a guy named Almoxis, another one named Docithius, another
[2:06:24] Speaker 1: one named Aristius. There's actually a woman who resurrected named Calliau,
[2:06:30] Speaker 1: and Alcestist resurrected as well. There's a bunch of people
[2:06:34] Speaker 1: in the ancient world around Jesus time period that were
[2:06:37] Speaker 1: supposedly resurrected from the dead.
[2:06:39] Speaker 6: And so let me ask you this.
[2:06:40] Speaker 9: Do you believe Jesus Christ was a real historical figure
[2:06:42] Speaker 9: or do you think he was fictional?
[2:06:45] Speaker 1: I think he probably was a real human being, but
[2:06:48] Speaker 1: the text that we have about him are fiction. Like
[2:06:51] Speaker 1: the stuff that talks about his life is mythology.
[2:06:55] Speaker 9: Okay, so he's a mythology. So you wouldn't it where
[2:07:01] Speaker 9: people would miscribe people as being dead, but they'd be
[2:07:04] Speaker 9: a temporary coma, then they'd be resurrected, they'd come back
[2:07:07] Speaker 9: to life in that way. You wouldn't think of that, Okay.
[2:07:10] Speaker 1: Well, I mean if you ask the Muslims, like they
[2:07:13] Speaker 1: believe in swoon theory, I don't believe in swoon theory.
[2:07:17] Speaker 1: Some people believe that his body was switched out. I
[2:07:19] Speaker 1: don't believe in that. I think the best way to
[2:07:23] Speaker 1: read the resurrection narrative is in line with the other
[2:07:29] Speaker 1: texts from the time period.
[2:07:30] Speaker 5: Right.
[2:07:30] Speaker 1: We know, for example, that grave robbers were stealing from graves,
[2:07:35] Speaker 1: especially graves that were owned by wealthy people. If Joseph
[2:07:40] Speaker 1: Arabythia existed and he was wealthy, obviously that would be
[2:07:44] Speaker 1: a grave to target. Typically, when grave robbers robbed these graves,
[2:07:48] Speaker 1: they took the dead bodies with them. If the bodies
[2:07:53] Speaker 1: were alive, they would sell them as a slave. In fact,
[2:07:55] Speaker 1: this actually happened to a young woman that has talked
[2:07:58] Speaker 1: about in the Greek and Roman life, where she was
[2:08:01] Speaker 1: thought to have been dead. Her body was laid in
[2:08:04] Speaker 1: a tomb along with a bunch of gifts and other wealth.
[2:08:07] Speaker 1: Grave robbers came to take what was buried with her,
[2:08:10] Speaker 1: discovered in fact that she wasn't completely dead, kidnapped her,
[2:08:15] Speaker 1: took her, and then sold her as a slave elsewhere,
[2:08:18] Speaker 1: and she was She was only seen again many many
[2:08:21] Speaker 1: many years later, when everyone had thought that she was
[2:08:24] Speaker 1: actually dead and then resurrected. When they discovered her, they
[2:08:28] Speaker 1: thought that she was resurrected, and she had to tell them, no,
[2:08:31] Speaker 1: I wasn't resurrected. I was kidnapped, and I wasn't fully
[2:08:35] Speaker 1: I wasn't fully dead. I came back to life. So
[2:08:38] Speaker 1: I think probably Jesus' body was probably kidnapped or we
[2:08:43] Speaker 1: don't even know where his body ever was and it
[2:08:45] Speaker 1: was all completely fabricated, and I think there was.
[2:08:48] Speaker 9: A temple where his body was and it should have
[2:08:51] Speaker 9: been biponscious pilot. Or No, we have no idea where
[2:08:54] Speaker 9: his body was laid in the two months. We have
[2:08:57] Speaker 9: no idea where his body was laid of the Holy sepulcher.
[2:09:01] Speaker 9: That's just fiction, not not real, not based on any location.
[2:09:04] Speaker 4: Yep.
[2:09:06] Speaker 9: Okay, So that's fan pic.
[2:09:07] Speaker 5: Okay.
[2:09:08] Speaker 9: So since we're speaking of fan fixed, what do you
[2:09:10] Speaker 9: think about gender?
[2:09:10] Speaker 11: Then?
[2:09:10] Speaker 9: Because you keep dodging the question about gender.
[2:09:13] Speaker 1: I think maybe you should talk to a biologists. So
[2:09:15] Speaker 1: I debate religious.
[2:09:16] Speaker 9: Okay, how about there's only female and you can't answer it.
[2:09:18] Speaker 9: Nigger nigger, get on the boat. Nigger nigger, Row row row,
[2:09:21] Speaker 9: nigger nigger, get out of here, nigger nigger go back.
[2:09:23] Speaker 1: You're come on, do it. You're not gonna get my
[2:09:25] Speaker 1: life taken down. I'm on YouTube. You can act like it,
[2:09:28] Speaker 1: nigger nigger, kick me off. Then answer the question.
[2:09:30] Speaker 9: Come on, say it male or female? Answer it.
[2:09:32] Speaker 1: No, I'm just gonna let you make a foil yourself.
[2:09:34] Speaker 9: Go ahead, that's fine. Niggers are evil kikes are evil kikes,
[2:09:39] Speaker 9: suck baby dick and murder children because that's blood live. Well,
[2:09:42] Speaker 9: that's what they do. Holocaust is a lie. Six million
[2:09:45] Speaker 9: ever happened? Come on from the life. You know what
[2:09:47] Speaker 9: I'm saying is true. That's why you can't stand it.
[2:09:49] Speaker 1: No, I'm just letting you make a fool you yourself
[2:09:51] Speaker 1: right now, that's.
[2:09:51] Speaker 9: All anyways, So read the fourteen words. We must secure
[2:09:55] Speaker 9: the existence of our future or of future four white
[2:09:58] Speaker 9: children gonna.
[2:09:59] Speaker 1: Do any of that. The people like, all right, well, listen, child,
[2:10:03] Speaker 1: go back to your mommy and daddy and come back
[2:10:07] Speaker 1: when like you're old enough that your testes have actually descended.
[2:10:11] Speaker 1: I'm not going to entertain any more of this. And
[2:10:18] Speaker 1: that's Christianity in a nutshell, guys. That is why we
[2:10:21] Speaker 1: do these live streams, because that is the type of
[2:10:26] Speaker 1: people that adhere to these dangerous, toxic religions, because that's
[2:10:35] Speaker 1: the only thing they can find that will you know,
[2:10:38] Speaker 1: quite literally, you know, endorse such behaviors. Anyways, he couldn't
[2:10:46] Speaker 1: actually stand topic, couldn't defend his views. Actually, he's come
[2:10:50] Speaker 1: up before I recognize his voice. He's come up before
[2:10:52] Speaker 1: demanding that I debate him. On the transtopic and it
[2:10:58] Speaker 1: always ends the same way. I don't know why he
[2:11:01] Speaker 1: thinks that he's somehow gonna goad me into getting off topic. Anyways,
[2:11:08] Speaker 1: we'll move on to the next one. Let me grab
[2:11:09] Speaker 1: a couple of super chats. Hold on, Johanna says, a
[2:11:15] Speaker 1: unicorn stuffy is the perfect gift for Christian parents to
[2:11:20] Speaker 1: give their child. It's a far it's as far fetched
[2:11:23] Speaker 1: as their Holy book. You nailed it. Actually, I still
[2:11:26] Speaker 1: want to make a plushy of the life granting unicorn.
[2:11:29] Speaker 1: I need to make this happen. It needs to be
[2:11:31] Speaker 1: a thing. And Bryce, thank you for the super chest,
[2:11:33] Speaker 1: says assuming that the universe is orderly is an example
[2:11:37] Speaker 1: of patterns seeking brains, counting the hits and ignoring the misses,
[2:11:42] Speaker 1: and also narcissism. That's a good point. You know, we
[2:11:44] Speaker 1: talk about paradolia quite often when these arguments come up,
[2:11:47] Speaker 1: and I agree with you Bryce, it's this we're so
[2:11:51] Speaker 1: programmed to seek the patterns that we see them when
[2:11:54] Speaker 1: even when they don't exist. And Bryce, again, thank you
[2:11:57] Speaker 1: so much, says I'm glad that Miles dropped the Philbrough
[2:12:00] Speaker 1: routine and started having a real conversation. I was actually
[2:12:03] Speaker 1: a little bit shocked. I was curious if he was
[2:12:05] Speaker 1: going to Filbro the whole time, because you know, Philbro
[2:12:07] Speaker 1: was going to fil Bro. But he came around and
[2:12:10] Speaker 1: we ended up having a decent conversation. I think that
[2:12:15] Speaker 1: goes to show that sometimes you just got to get
[2:12:17] Speaker 1: over the nonsense and let him know that you're not
[2:12:20] Speaker 1: going to, you know, engage in the nonsense, and they'll
[2:12:23] Speaker 1: come back to sanity. But it doesn't work for everybody.
[2:12:28] Speaker 1: And a big w Selah Salem for the nineteen ninety
[2:12:31] Speaker 1: nine super chat. In fact, it's so big. One second
[2:12:34] Speaker 1: it's slightly cut off on my screen.
[2:12:36] Speaker 4: There we go.
[2:12:38] Speaker 1: It says, do the people realize that Christianity is younger
[2:12:41] Speaker 1: than human civilization? I mean I think they do it.
[2:12:44] Speaker 1: Do they think humans had no morals into two thousand
[2:12:47] Speaker 1: years ago? That's where they differ? Says, where do Christians
[2:12:51] Speaker 1: think they got their mold from older religions and atheism?
[2:12:54] Speaker 1: Holy Rock? So you're one hundred percent right, Sela, because all,
[2:12:58] Speaker 1: like most of the laws that you have in the
[2:13:00] Speaker 1: Hebrew Bible and even in the New Testament, like they
[2:13:03] Speaker 1: all exist outside of the Bible. Like I can find
[2:13:05] Speaker 1: them elsewhere. In fact, most of the Ten Commandments, not
[2:13:08] Speaker 1: all of them, obviously, are directly paralleled in the forty
[2:13:12] Speaker 1: two Confessions of a from Egypt. And I know there
[2:13:15] Speaker 1: are some apologists saying, no, no, they weren't. They absolutely were.
[2:13:18] Speaker 1: I'm more than glad to show you where they are. Johanna,
[2:13:21] Speaker 1: thank you for the super tend says why can't believers
[2:13:23] Speaker 1: realize that atheists are more morally developed human beings? I
[2:13:26] Speaker 1: guess they have no sense of wrong and right without
[2:13:29] Speaker 1: someone finding the answer in They're horribly im moral book. Yeah,
[2:13:34] Speaker 1: that's the case, right, because like the general belief is like,
[2:13:39] Speaker 1: you can't be moral unless a God is telling you
[2:13:41] Speaker 1: that you need to be moral. But that tells me
[2:13:43] Speaker 1: that you're dangerous. Like if you can't be moral without
[2:13:46] Speaker 1: God telling you to be, then you're dangerous. Individual and
[2:13:49] Speaker 1: soldier says five billion years Sun will explode. I thought
[2:13:52] Speaker 1: it was one bill oh expand I thought it was
[2:13:54] Speaker 1: one billion. I could be wrong, but it says five
[2:13:56] Speaker 1: billion years Sun will expand in in golf, mercury, Venus,
[2:13:59] Speaker 1: and maybe Earth one billion year's son will heat up
[2:14:02] Speaker 1: enough to evaporate the oceans and end life on Earth.
[2:14:04] Speaker 1: Correcting as an astronomy and earth. That's that's probably more
[2:14:07] Speaker 1: like it. That's a good correction. Actually, I think you're right.
[2:14:11] Speaker 1: It's not that it's gonna swallow up the Earth. It's
[2:14:14] Speaker 1: just gonna end life on Earth. Eventually, it will swallow
[2:14:18] Speaker 1: life on Earth, or you know, it's gonna swallow up
[2:14:20] Speaker 1: the earths, just not in a billion years. I appreciate
[2:14:25] Speaker 1: the correction, I really do. I appreciate that. And oh,
[2:14:28] Speaker 1: Discordia friend, thank you so much for the supertest says
[2:14:30] Speaker 1: this filmbro isn't so bad. But why do they always
[2:14:33] Speaker 1: talk so fast? Are they using a technique of dazzle
[2:14:36] Speaker 1: them with bullshit? Yeah? Yeah, so you guys probably know
[2:14:39] Speaker 1: the the old saying.
[2:14:44] Speaker 5: Shit, what was it?
[2:14:46] Speaker 1: It's similar to dazzle dazzle them with bullshit, but it's
[2:14:50] Speaker 1: it rolls off the tongue better. What was it called? Hmmy?
[2:14:58] Speaker 11: What?
[2:14:59] Speaker 1: It's not actually coming to me. Maybe I'll google it.
[2:15:01] Speaker 1: It was a good saying.
[2:15:08] Speaker 6: What was it?
[2:15:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, dazzlum with brilliance, baffle of them with bullshit. That's
[2:15:16] Speaker 1: the one I was thinking of. Dazzle them with brilliance,
[2:15:19] Speaker 1: baffling with bullshit. Yeah, there's a lot of baffling with
[2:15:21] Speaker 1: bullshit happening out here. That is, that's just the facts
[2:15:25] Speaker 1: of the matter. Let me grab like two more superchet
[2:15:28] Speaker 1: friends and we'll grab our next guest, retired bomb Tech,
[2:15:32] Speaker 1: Big big w thank you for the twenty hour Supertest,
[2:15:34] Speaker 1: says retired from the military after twenty years. Thank you
[2:15:37] Speaker 1: for serving. By the way, your show is one of
[2:15:39] Speaker 1: the few things in the civilian world that keeps me sane.
[2:15:43] Speaker 1: Your humor reminds me a little of the military. Here's
[2:15:45] Speaker 1: some cash for your cooking fun partner. Well, thank you
[2:15:48] Speaker 1: so so much, retired bomb tech, and thank you for serving. Listen,
[2:15:52] Speaker 1: that's a difficult thing to do. I've got family that
[2:15:55] Speaker 1: are in the service, and listen, you're doing things that
[2:15:59] Speaker 1: a lot of normal people aren't going to do. You've
[2:16:01] Speaker 1: already done them. So thank you so much for serving,
[2:16:03] Speaker 1: and thank you for watching and supporting the channel. And
[2:16:06] Speaker 1: last one for now, Matt Vernon, thank you so so
[2:16:08] Speaker 1: much for the twenty hours protest says, isn't it problematic
[2:16:11] Speaker 1: for that Jesus was God? Theory that Jesus didn't appear
[2:16:14] Speaker 1: to know that the major stories of the Exus and
[2:16:17] Speaker 1: invasion of Canaan were untrue. It seems like something he
[2:16:20] Speaker 1: should have known. Maybe I'm in complete agreement with you,
[2:16:24] Speaker 1: right This idea that Jesus flubs on the Old Testament
[2:16:30] Speaker 1: all the time is deeply problematic for me at least,
[2:16:34] Speaker 1: it's super a big problem. And we talk about Psalm
[2:16:37] Speaker 1: one ten a lot on this particular issue. Let me
[2:16:41] Speaker 1: get our next guest in from the queue, and Vic,
[2:16:44] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the twenty dollars. Super things
[2:16:48] Speaker 1: I super is deeply problematic for me at least, it's
[2:16:52] Speaker 1: super Prophet Deniah. Why are you feeding my stream into
[2:17:02] Speaker 1: your microphone? First happening things? Okay, I'm gonna drop this.
[2:17:05] Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on with this person, all right,
[2:17:08] Speaker 1: and well we'll move on to the next one. Uh, Vic,
[2:17:12] Speaker 1: bravo to you for supporting the channel. I really appreciate that, friend,
[2:17:17] Speaker 1: all right, and we're gonna get looks like Casin in here,
[2:17:25] Speaker 1: although Casin looks like they might have disconnected or maybe
[2:17:28] Speaker 1: they need refreshed your browser caseon, can you hear me
[2:17:33] Speaker 1: casein casein bueler anybody? Okay, Cason not actually with us,
[2:17:42] Speaker 1: move on to the next one. Looks like we've got
[2:17:47] Speaker 1: thracked in here, although Cason, looks like they might have
[2:17:51] Speaker 1: disconnected or maybe they need to refresh.
[2:17:53] Speaker 11: Your browser caseon?
[2:17:54] Speaker 1: Can you hear me?
[2:17:55] Speaker 6: Thrack?
[2:17:56] Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on to your audio setup.
[2:17:58] Speaker 1: Do you have a microphone you can plug in? Steelers?
[2:18:02] Speaker 11: Anybody not actually with us?
[2:18:06] Speaker 1: Move on to the next one. All right, well Thracks
[2:18:09] Speaker 1: not fully connected. We'll keep going. Looks like we've got
[2:18:17] Speaker 1: joining us now, Rat Rat can you hear me? Rat?
[2:18:29] Speaker 5: Rat?
[2:18:33] Speaker 1: Rat? Your connection is good?
[2:18:40] Speaker 11: Yeah?
[2:18:40] Speaker 6: Hey, Hi, can hear me?
[2:18:41] Speaker 1: I can hear you now? Yeah, it looks like your
[2:18:43] Speaker 1: microphones turned on. How you doing, Rat?
[2:18:46] Speaker 9: Yeah?
[2:18:46] Speaker 11: I just switched over to my hold on second, I
[2:18:51] Speaker 11: just switched over to my bluetooth head piece. Allright, No,
[2:18:55] Speaker 11: I'm good. Hey, how are you doing tonight?
[2:18:57] Speaker 1: Good? Thank you for asking? Rat? Are you at least
[2:19:00] Speaker 1: eighteen and are you a believer?
[2:19:03] Speaker 11: I am at least eighteen, and I am a believer?
[2:19:06] Speaker 1: Cool?
[2:19:07] Speaker 11: Yeah, I'm a believer?
[2:19:08] Speaker 1: All right? And which god do you believe in?
[2:19:12] Speaker 11: I believe in the Father at least the one that
[2:19:19] Speaker 11: Jesus proclaims.
[2:19:20] Speaker 1: Gotcha? So you're a Christian?
[2:19:23] Speaker 11: Yeah, I'll take that. I'll take that title for lack
[2:19:26] Speaker 11: of a better use. But some people here and in
[2:19:29] Speaker 11: the call to really making me wish for a better title.
[2:19:35] Speaker 1: Trust me, I get that. I get that. So would
[2:19:38] Speaker 1: be the best evidence or argument for the Christian God
[2:19:40] Speaker 1: being real?
[2:19:43] Speaker 11: Uh, that's a great question, and I've been thinking about it.
[2:19:48] Speaker 11: The best evidence I got is just purely anecdotal, just
[2:19:53] Speaker 11: stuff that secured in my life that makes me point
[2:19:57] Speaker 11: towards something outside of at least the tangible.
[2:20:02] Speaker 1: Would you accept that for somebody of another religion?
[2:20:07] Speaker 4: Oh?
[2:20:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, right, So I'll give you an example, because, like
[2:20:11] Speaker 1: when I was a young apologist, I was engaging. I
[2:20:15] Speaker 1: thought that miracles and testimonies of miracles were super powerful
[2:20:20] Speaker 1: for Christianity. So I started talking to Muslims and whatnot
[2:20:24] Speaker 1: on the other side of the world, back when the
[2:20:25] Speaker 1: Internet was still new, asking about, you know, why they
[2:20:28] Speaker 1: believe in their religion, and I came to discover that
[2:20:31] Speaker 1: they had just the same types of testimonies and miracles
[2:20:35] Speaker 1: that I had, which led me then to the conclusion
[2:20:38] Speaker 1: obviously that maybe those aren't the best evidences.
[2:20:43] Speaker 11: Oh sure, I don't necessarily deny that the Muslims do
[2:20:47] Speaker 11: believe in a God, and that is influential and affecting
[2:20:51] Speaker 11: this realm.
[2:20:55] Speaker 1: Right, What I'm suggesting is that if the if the
[2:21:04] Speaker 1: Muslims are reporting the same types of stories as the Christians,
[2:21:10] Speaker 1: then either both of them are right or both of
[2:21:13] Speaker 1: them are wrong.
[2:21:18] Speaker 11: Yeah, fair enough, Yeah, and I agree with that. Yeah, yeah, right,
[2:21:22] Speaker 11: I agree with that.
[2:21:23] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[2:21:24] Speaker 11: If so, if what I experience is similar to someone
[2:21:26] Speaker 11: in a different faith, right.
[2:21:31] Speaker 1: Right, exactly So from my point of view, if I
[2:21:34] Speaker 1: took your personal story to be serious proof, then I'd
[2:21:39] Speaker 1: have to take everybody else's, and then I'd end up being,
[2:21:42] Speaker 1: you know, polytheistic, and I believe in all the gods.
[2:21:46] Speaker 11: I would never ask you to take my personal stories
[2:21:48] Speaker 11: as proof. That's that's personal. That's it's a personal story.
[2:21:51] Speaker 11: It's purely on me.
[2:21:54] Speaker 1: Sure, Okay, Well then you know, from from my point
[2:21:58] Speaker 1: of view, you know, if if you don't have anything
[2:22:00] Speaker 1: other than anecdote, I'm not sure there's much for us
[2:22:02] Speaker 1: to cover because I don't think anecdotes are helpful.
[2:22:08] Speaker 11: Yeah, one hundred percent, I get I get that totally.
[2:22:10] Speaker 11: And I guess the topic of the podcast is my
[2:22:14] Speaker 11: God is imaginary or your God is imaginary? Proved me wrong? Right?
[2:22:18] Speaker 11: And I really don't know how I could prove you wrong.
[2:22:22] Speaker 11: Given given that the the the amount of evidence I
[2:22:27] Speaker 11: would have to bring to the table, well beyond my
[2:22:32] Speaker 11: personal beliefs is it's easily talk, you know, easily construed
[2:22:40] Speaker 11: is like a natural or or like this is just
[2:22:44] Speaker 11: our experience. I'm bad with words, Yet you.
[2:22:47] Speaker 1: Have to understand I agree with you. So basically, when
[2:22:52] Speaker 1: I was a young Christian, I had one of my
[2:22:55] Speaker 1: religion teachers in Catholic school tell me we're talking talking
[2:23:00] Speaker 1: about the Bible, and some difficult questions came up, and
[2:23:04] Speaker 1: she said, at the end of the day, you know,
[2:23:06] Speaker 1: what we believe is a faith and not a fact,
[2:23:09] Speaker 1: and you can't prove it to people. And so I mean,
[2:23:12] Speaker 1: I appreciate that that it seems like you've come to
[2:23:14] Speaker 1: that realization. The reality is, though most most Christians don't
[2:23:21] Speaker 1: believe that, most Christians believe that it's a fact, and
[2:23:23] Speaker 1: that I'm the dummy for not believing it. So that's
[2:23:26] Speaker 1: kind of why we do these dames streams.
[2:23:28] Speaker 11: Oh yeah, totally. I just want Well, the main reason
[2:23:31] Speaker 11: why I'm talking to I apologize ahead of time. I'm
[2:23:34] Speaker 11: I'm driving along the seventies, so if if if my
[2:23:37] Speaker 11: connection cuts out, we cut out. But I'm mostly calling
[2:23:43] Speaker 11: again because I have a buddy who's a big fan
[2:23:46] Speaker 11: of your show, Andy Adam, and he we have a
[2:23:51] Speaker 11: lot of in depth discussions about religion and you know,
[2:23:57] Speaker 11: super low level philosophy. I'm not a philosoph for I'm
[2:24:01] Speaker 11: not a super deep thinker. I'm trying to do super
[2:24:03] Speaker 11: deep critical thinking now, but like I haven't been for
[2:24:06] Speaker 11: the vast majority of my life. And so he wanted
[2:24:10] Speaker 11: me to call call in and have a chat with
[2:24:12] Speaker 11: you and discuss some of the things that we've talked about.
[2:24:14] Speaker 4: And it's just.
[2:24:18] Speaker 11: That's mostly why I'm calling in, And I wanted to
[2:24:20] Speaker 11: talk about the fact that well, not the fact that
[2:24:22] Speaker 11: well that my opinion is that that Jesus uh, if
[2:24:26] Speaker 11: we're to take the Bible story at its face, the
[2:24:31] Speaker 11: Old Testament deity Yahweh is not the deity that Jesus
[2:24:39] Speaker 11: professed in the New Testament.
[2:24:41] Speaker 1: Sounds like you're not a Christian, all right.
[2:24:44] Speaker 11: That's why I don't want to That's why I'll accept
[2:24:47] Speaker 11: the title, but I don't really want because I don't
[2:24:49] Speaker 11: believe in the Trinity and I don't worship Yahweh a
[2:24:53] Speaker 11: deceitful the father of lies as Jesus proclaimed him to be.
[2:24:57] Speaker 11: And that's that's that's where I'm at.
[2:25:00] Speaker 1: Interesting. Uh So, all right, so you believe uh uh
[2:25:06] Speaker 1: maybe in line with some of the Gnostics.
[2:25:08] Speaker 11: Perhaps I've been I've been trying to avoid falling into
[2:25:13] Speaker 11: the Gnostic rabbit hole, but it's like, you know, like
[2:25:18] Speaker 11: treading over the edge, and I see it.
[2:25:19] Speaker 1: It's scary, right, yeah, And so you might fall into
[2:25:23] Speaker 1: like adoptionism where Jesus wasn't the son of God like actually,
[2:25:29] Speaker 1: but was more like an adopted son of God. Is
[2:25:31] Speaker 1: that kind of where you're at.
[2:25:37] Speaker 11: That's harder to say. I guess you could probably more
[2:25:45] Speaker 11: bunch me in with Gnostic traditions. So it's like that
[2:25:49] Speaker 11: that Yahweh being the demi urge or or something along
[2:25:54] Speaker 11: those lines. That's a little closer to what I think.
[2:25:56] Speaker 11: I do think that there is a uh like a
[2:26:00] Speaker 11: hierarchy to the spiritual realm, if for lack of a
[2:26:06] Speaker 11: better term, like there is there is like a supreme
[2:26:10] Speaker 11: and then there are lower rank entities. I would consider
[2:26:16] Speaker 11: Yahweh and Jesus among those lower ranked entities, not the
[2:26:22] Speaker 11: same as the Supreme, but still like they would refer
[2:26:26] Speaker 11: to him as the Father, that sort of thing.
[2:26:32] Speaker 1: Sure, So do you believe the Bible is true?
[2:26:38] Speaker 4: Now?
[2:26:38] Speaker 11: I think there's a lot of well, I mean they're
[2:26:41] Speaker 11: like broad stroke stuff is kind of true, But there
[2:26:45] Speaker 11: are a lot of flies and seats and and people
[2:26:48] Speaker 11: have people have used the Bible in their own uh
[2:26:53] Speaker 11: quest for powers throughout the years, like like the Deuteronomous
[2:26:58] Speaker 11: and like uh like reconstructuring, reconstructing the Torah to fit
[2:27:04] Speaker 11: their like political motives. And then of course like the
[2:27:09] Speaker 11: Catholic Church adding in versus and taking away sections of
[2:27:14] Speaker 11: the New Testament to fit their political and you know,
[2:27:19] Speaker 11: power grabbing motivations and stuff like that. So so the
[2:27:24] Speaker 11: Bible is as.
[2:27:28] Speaker 6: It's a text.
[2:27:29] Speaker 11: It is a It is a collection of books that
[2:27:32] Speaker 11: we have to read and critically think about as far
[2:27:35] Speaker 11: as it's true, as far as we can uh verify,
[2:27:39] Speaker 11: and as far as we can verify is is again
[2:27:43] Speaker 11: writings of a certain perspective, a certain bias, Like we
[2:27:47] Speaker 11: get the Old Testament, but it's all written from a
[2:27:50] Speaker 11: bias of Moses or or or you know who whoever
[2:27:54] Speaker 11: wrote the Torah?
[2:27:58] Speaker 1: Is the Bible?
[2:28:02] Speaker 11: Say it again?
[2:28:03] Speaker 1: Is the Bible superior to the to the Iliad? And Odyssey.
[2:28:10] Speaker 11: Oh to the Iliad and Odyssey. It's a cooler story,
[2:28:15] Speaker 11: I think. But Iliad and Odyssey are very cool stories.
[2:28:18] Speaker 11: I will say that much.
[2:28:20] Speaker 1: But is the Bible more true? Is it truthier?
[2:28:26] Speaker 11: Truthier? I mean that's my belief.
[2:28:30] Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, what makes the Bible more truthier than the
[2:28:35] Speaker 1: writings of Homer?
[2:28:38] Speaker 11: Uh? The Bible truthier than the writings of Homer? That's
[2:28:42] Speaker 11: a great question. Well, unfortunately, there's so much like inconsistency
[2:28:51] Speaker 11: in terms of like historical events as far as we
[2:28:56] Speaker 11: can verify and what's written in the Old Testaments, and
[2:29:00] Speaker 11: even so with the New Testament, we do have some
[2:29:03] Speaker 11: a general outline of what happened with the apostles directly
[2:29:07] Speaker 11: after Jesus. But again it's it's only as verified as
[2:29:11] Speaker 11: we have historical evidence and records of right. So what
[2:29:15] Speaker 11: makes it truth here is the I mean, it's not
[2:29:22] Speaker 11: much of an evidence so much as it's like so
[2:29:26] Speaker 11: many people believe it and it's lasted for so long,
[2:29:29] Speaker 11: so on that grounds, it's a little bit truthier. Like
[2:29:32] Speaker 11: like you don't find people preaching Homer or preaching the
[2:29:38] Speaker 11: Iliad today. There might be some, but like there's a
[2:29:42] Speaker 11: lot more like influence in the Bible, and I would
[2:29:44] Speaker 11: guess that that would be the metric in which out
[2:29:49] Speaker 11: weigh the truthierness of the Bible.
[2:29:52] Speaker 1: If and when Islam replaces Christianity as the world's most
[2:29:56] Speaker 1: abundant religion, would that mean that the Koran is truthier
[2:29:59] Speaker 1: than the Bible.
[2:30:02] Speaker 11: I don't necessarily think either of them are not true.
[2:30:05] Speaker 11: Does that make sense?
[2:30:06] Speaker 4: I like.
[2:30:10] Speaker 10: Like the Quran, still like.
[2:30:13] Speaker 11: I think it's the same entity. Honestly, I think it's
[2:30:16] Speaker 11: it's all yahwehs and Falsiturnian worship.
[2:30:20] Speaker 1: But the difference is that Allah doesn't believe that Jesus
[2:30:26] Speaker 1: died for your sins, or that he's a son of God,
[2:30:29] Speaker 1: or that God cant even have a son. Certainly doesn't
[2:30:33] Speaker 1: believe in multiple deities. He wants to give you seventy
[2:30:37] Speaker 1: virgins if you sacrifice your life with the cause of
[2:30:39] Speaker 1: a law that you'll like, you'll be swimming in rivers
[2:30:45] Speaker 1: of milk in the afterlife. I think they are pretty
[2:30:48] Speaker 1: different conceptions of God, right, They are.
[2:30:51] Speaker 11: Pretty different conceptions of God. Now, I will definitely give
[2:30:54] Speaker 11: you that much. That's why I think the version that
[2:31:00] Speaker 11: is Haam teaches that it's more closely related to the
[2:31:03] Speaker 11: version that the Old Testament teaches. This this this horrible
[2:31:09] Speaker 11: awful deity that that sends his army to massacre people
[2:31:13] Speaker 11: and and you know, enforces great marriage and enforces the
[2:31:18] Speaker 11: soning of homos and the sooning of like unfaithful women
[2:31:26] Speaker 11: and stuff like that. That it it aligns more with
[2:31:29] Speaker 11: the Old Testament deity. Right, So then than what I
[2:31:34] Speaker 11: would see in the New Testament. Who is this? This
[2:31:38] Speaker 11: the Father who Jesus talks about, is is loving?
[2:31:43] Speaker 6: Is uh?
[2:31:45] Speaker 14: You know?
[2:31:46] Speaker 11: Faithful kids? His promises would not send snakes to those
[2:31:52] Speaker 11: who ask for bread.
[2:31:54] Speaker 6: But you know that.
[2:31:57] Speaker 1: When the when the Israelites cry out in the wilderness, right,
[2:32:01] Speaker 1: bread got well, which is exactly why I brought.
[2:32:04] Speaker 11: Which is why I exactly bought that point up. I
[2:32:06] Speaker 11: don't think Yahweh is the Father that.
[2:32:09] Speaker 1: Jesus preaches about, right, So let me ask you a question.
[2:32:13] Speaker 1: It sounds to me like you probably have a Christian
[2:32:16] Speaker 1: background and you're realizing some of the absurdities in the Bible,
[2:32:20] Speaker 1: and therefore your kind of.
[2:32:22] Speaker 11: Baptist Baptist charismatic born into a charismatic make a church
[2:32:27] Speaker 11: and raised Baptist from when I was like.
[2:32:29] Speaker 1: Eight, right, so you're seeing the problems with some of
[2:32:33] Speaker 1: the Bible, and you're reconstructing a faith that seems to
[2:32:36] Speaker 1: line up with your understanding of the Bible. What I'm
[2:32:40] Speaker 1: trying to figure out is, once you've seen all the
[2:32:42] Speaker 1: problems with the Bible, you've seen the God who says
[2:32:45] Speaker 1: genocide's cool, rape is fine, different things like that. At
[2:32:49] Speaker 1: that point, why are you trying to reconstruct a faith
[2:32:52] Speaker 1: that includes the Bible as opposed to just say, oh,
[2:32:56] Speaker 1: this book's fiction and this bullshit and invent something different
[2:33:00] Speaker 1: that doesn't need the Bible to be true.
[2:33:04] Speaker 11: And the only thing I could give you is again
[2:33:07] Speaker 11: personal anecdote, like events that happens to me that directly
[2:33:13] Speaker 11: correspond to Jesus, And uh, that's that's that's, that's all
[2:33:20] Speaker 11: I can do, Like I can't like I can get
[2:33:24] Speaker 11: I can give up on the on the Bible, but
[2:33:29] Speaker 11: it wouldn't change the events that happened in my life.
[2:33:33] Speaker 11: It's it's kind of I'm kind of in that tricky
[2:33:36] Speaker 11: position here, and I understand that like what I'm saying
[2:33:40] Speaker 11: is is completely heretical to the core, Like I'm not
[2:33:45] Speaker 11: at this point, I'm not part of the Christian religion.
[2:33:48] Speaker 11: Because it's it's my beliefs are so counter to like
[2:33:55] Speaker 11: Christian industrial American industrial beliefs. Yeah, yeah, okay, So like
[2:34:01] Speaker 11: I think most of them, I think most of them
[2:34:03] Speaker 11: are worshiping Yalweh. They do want to instate the bob
[2:34:07] Speaker 11: of sin and death. You know, they want that law
[2:34:10] Speaker 11: back because it's gives them power, it gives them control.
[2:34:13] Speaker 11: But like that's counter to what what I think the
[2:34:18] Speaker 11: New Testament is about. You know, it's like it's like
[2:34:20] Speaker 11: freedom from the law because the law is lost in death.
[2:34:24] Speaker 11: And then like releasing being released from the law is
[2:34:28] Speaker 11: you freedom to be better than what the law help
[2:34:32] Speaker 11: help for us, you know what I mean?
[2:34:36] Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I know are saying I don't think
[2:34:38] Speaker 1: it's sensible, But that being said, all right, so let's
[2:34:44] Speaker 1: try to circle the wagons here, Okay.
[2:34:46] Speaker 6: All right.
[2:34:48] Speaker 1: You don't really believe in the Bible's truthfulness, you don't
[2:34:53] Speaker 1: really believe in how the New Testament understands the Old Testament.
[2:34:58] Speaker 1: You don't really even leave in some of the words
[2:35:01] Speaker 1: of Jesus apparently, and so it seems to me the
[2:35:05] Speaker 1: only thing that we'll get there. It seems to me
[2:35:10] Speaker 1: that you're the thing that's keeping you in this whole
[2:35:14] Speaker 1: Bible based religion. Is this idea that you had an
[2:35:19] Speaker 1: experience with Jesus or with a god that you associate
[2:35:22] Speaker 1: with Jesus. And that's fine. So yeah, and I've heard
[2:35:26] Speaker 1: these I've heard this before, and in fact, when I
[2:35:29] Speaker 1: was a believer, I would have said something similar. And
[2:35:32] Speaker 1: here's kind of why I think these these types of
[2:35:35] Speaker 1: arguments are not great because and it's not an argument,
[2:35:40] Speaker 1: but this is this is why this is not a
[2:35:41] Speaker 1: great route to go down. Right, So because if you,
[2:35:43] Speaker 1: if you, if you believe that you have uh, like
[2:35:47] Speaker 1: the God that you're talking about has appeared to you
[2:35:52] Speaker 1: or made himself known to you or herself and has
[2:35:58] Speaker 1: somehow intervened in your life in some way, right, this
[2:36:03] Speaker 1: is problematic to me that you know, we would believe
[2:36:06] Speaker 1: in a god that would intervene in like rather mundane details,
[2:36:10] Speaker 1: which is usually how these stories turn out, like rather
[2:36:13] Speaker 1: mundane interventions that would be better explained by psychology. And
[2:36:19] Speaker 1: but then he won't intervene when there's three million children
[2:36:24] Speaker 1: dying of starvation and literally just a loaf of bread
[2:36:28] Speaker 1: would keep them alive for another week. So like, it's
[2:36:31] Speaker 1: weird to me that like a god would be concerned
[2:36:34] Speaker 1: with the little, tiny affairs of our first world problems
[2:36:38] Speaker 1: but then choose not to intervene in all the horrific
[2:36:42] Speaker 1: stuff that's going on every second of every day.
[2:36:46] Speaker 11: Yeah, it just suck. Yeah.
[2:36:49] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[2:36:50] Speaker 11: So the only thing I can say in response.
[2:36:53] Speaker 10: To that is.
[2:36:57] Speaker 11: I'm stupid. I'm I'm kind of started. So I do
[2:37:00] Speaker 11: what I can with what I'm working with.
[2:37:03] Speaker 1: I think you had an experience and it was convincing
[2:37:05] Speaker 1: to you.
[2:37:07] Speaker 11: Well yeah, I know, I I do think that if
[2:37:13] Speaker 11: as far as the New Testaments. But all right, so
[2:37:17] Speaker 11: the Old Testament sets up the story of this this
[2:37:21] Speaker 11: deity of masking, this canaanit deity right right, this Yahweh
[2:37:25] Speaker 11: or YadA or whatever you want to call him, uh,
[2:37:28] Speaker 11: masking himself as the god of this world, the you know,
[2:37:32] Speaker 11: taking spot of the most high. Uh. He curses the land.
[2:37:37] Speaker 11: And we know the garden of the Garden of Eden's
[2:37:40] Speaker 11: a whole whole thinging of itself. Like the liar in
[2:37:44] Speaker 11: the garden is not the snake, is not admri Eve.
[2:37:48] Speaker 11: It is Yahweh in the garden that lies. And uh
[2:37:53] Speaker 11: so he curses the land, he curses the earth.
[2:37:56] Speaker 1: And then the God of the Old Testament is evil.
[2:38:00] Speaker 11: Out of Old Testament is evil.
[2:38:02] Speaker 1: And now is the God of the Old Testament, the
[2:38:04] Speaker 1: God of everything that he created all things? No, who didn't.
[2:38:12] Speaker 11: I believe it was a council of deities? You know,
[2:38:15] Speaker 11: we got like the general charm we you have is
[2:38:19] Speaker 11: l o gem and we're not. We don't really know
[2:38:21] Speaker 11: if that's a singular or plural whatever the creation element was,
[2:38:26] Speaker 11: was it? I believe it was a council of deities
[2:38:29] Speaker 11: known as the Divine counselors, referred to and H and
[2:38:33] Speaker 11: Durrouney thirty two. It's referred to a psalmed chapter eighty two,
[2:38:37] Speaker 11: a few other places in the Bible. It's this divine counsel.
[2:38:43] Speaker 1: Right, And why would you believe that they were the
[2:38:45] Speaker 1: ones that created everything? Well, it's just it's just fun
[2:38:53] Speaker 1: to believe, sure, right, But the Bible says that the
[2:38:58] Speaker 1: Yahweh created everything.
[2:39:00] Speaker 11: Well no, no, Yahweh didn't start working on anything till
[2:39:04] Speaker 11: Genesis chapter two, verse four.
[2:39:07] Speaker 1: Well, no, I disagree. I think Yahweh in the Old
[2:39:12] Speaker 1: Testament is conflated with l el yahn.
[2:39:18] Speaker 11: Okay, oh, I see, I see what you're Yeah, Okay, No,
[2:39:20] Speaker 11: that's so.
[2:39:23] Speaker 1: The reason why, so the reason why Genesis one refers
[2:39:29] Speaker 1: to Elohem creating and Genesis two refers to Yahweh creating
[2:39:34] Speaker 1: is because they came from two different editors. And so,
[2:39:39] Speaker 1: how are you How familiar are you with the documentary
[2:39:43] Speaker 1: documentary hypothesis? Uh?
[2:39:49] Speaker 11: Not at all?
[2:39:50] Speaker 4: What is this?
[2:39:51] Speaker 1: Okay? So there's a theory referred to as documentary hypothesis.
[2:39:55] Speaker 1: There's multiple versions of it you can do, like the
[2:39:57] Speaker 1: sulblementarian hypothesis or the fragmentary hypothesis, but they're all referring
[2:40:02] Speaker 1: to the same thing, which is that we have different
[2:40:04] Speaker 1: narratives that were at some point stitched together by editors.
[2:40:11] Speaker 1: And we can, in fact, if you read the writings
[2:40:15] Speaker 1: of like Julian Wellhausen or Casuto, or more recently Richard
[2:40:22] Speaker 1: Elliott Freeman or Joel Baden, we can tell where these
[2:40:26] Speaker 1: sources are based on the language that they're using and
[2:40:29] Speaker 1: how the texts are written. And so what happened is
[2:40:35] Speaker 1: the North and the South had different traditions. The Judeans
[2:40:40] Speaker 1: and the Israelites were once different people. The Judeans worshiped
[2:40:44] Speaker 1: Yahweh and the northern tribes worshiped El, also referred to
[2:40:49] Speaker 1: as Alohem, which is a concrete abstraction of the Hebrew
[2:40:53] Speaker 1: named El. So what happened was they had to combine
[2:40:58] Speaker 1: their cultural and really religious heritage at some point probably
[2:41:03] Speaker 1: during the initially through the United Monarchy of David, and
[2:41:07] Speaker 1: then again after the Insyrian invasion that decimated the ten
[2:41:11] Speaker 1: tribes of the North and all their priests had to
[2:41:14] Speaker 1: go south into Judea. So what they did is they
[2:41:17] Speaker 1: took these separate narratives and they stitched them together into
[2:41:21] Speaker 1: one meta narrative and said, look, we're actually the same
[2:41:25] Speaker 1: people that worship the same god. We should be unified.
[2:41:29] Speaker 1: So what we have then is a composite text from
[2:41:34] Speaker 1: two different regions, from two different actual people groups that
[2:41:38] Speaker 1: are attempting to be conflated together. And that's why we
[2:41:41] Speaker 1: have what seems to be two different gods in the
[2:41:44] Speaker 1: Old Testament, is because originally they were two different gods.
[2:41:48] Speaker 1: The problem is that the Bible has been so heavily
[2:41:51] Speaker 1: edited that if you read all of the Hebrew Bible,
[2:41:54] Speaker 1: it's clear that they want you to believe, and they're
[2:41:57] Speaker 1: telling you that Elohem and Yahweh are the same deity.
[2:42:02] Speaker 1: Uh there's a number of passages that clearly state this.
[2:42:07] Speaker 1: You just have to read enough of it to stumble
[2:42:09] Speaker 1: upon them.
[2:42:11] Speaker 11: Yeah, but yeah, I'm pretty sure that's like the vast
[2:42:15] Speaker 11: majority opinion of the Bible is that that most believe
[2:42:19] Speaker 11: that Yahweh is l or el yong. Right, that's the
[2:42:27] Speaker 11: vast majority opinion. It's it's really only just a I
[2:42:30] Speaker 11: don't think I agree with a vast majority of people
[2:42:34] Speaker 11: who believe the Bible.
[2:42:38] Speaker 1: Yeah. So anyways, my point is, like, when we get
[2:42:42] Speaker 1: to the point where the Bible is so fragmented that
[2:42:46] Speaker 1: either a you have to invent, you know, multiple characters,
[2:42:53] Speaker 1: or b you have to take multiple characters and smush
[2:42:56] Speaker 1: them into one, at some point we should probably just
[2:42:59] Speaker 1: cut to the agreement that it's all fiction and it's
[2:43:03] Speaker 1: not true. If it was true, we wouldn't have to uh, Like,
[2:43:08] Speaker 1: we wouldn't be finding these competing deities in the text.
[2:43:13] Speaker 1: We would expect that it's unified. But we know that
[2:43:15] Speaker 1: it's not unified because if we actually do the research
[2:43:20] Speaker 1: on the source criticism, it's obvious that these are different
[2:43:24] Speaker 1: texts that were later compiled together, making it to look
[2:43:28] Speaker 1: like it's one unified text.
[2:43:33] Speaker 11: Fair enough. Yeah, I can, I can, I can go
[2:43:36] Speaker 11: along with that. I still don't know if that like
[2:43:42] Speaker 11: undes the work that the New Testament kind of yeah,
[2:43:49] Speaker 11: gifts us like the like Jesus Jesus, this Jesus character
[2:43:54] Speaker 11: going through it saying, hey, actually, you know this law
[2:43:57] Speaker 11: secks just be a good person.
[2:43:59] Speaker 1: Well he doesn't say that type of thing.
[2:44:00] Speaker 11: Well, no, he doesn't say that literally, Like he says, uh, love,
[2:44:04] Speaker 11: love God, follow your heart, soul in mind, and then
[2:44:06] Speaker 11: love your neighbor as yourself. All the law is summed
[2:44:09] Speaker 11: up on those two principles.
[2:44:11] Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, Jesus was a judaizer. Jesus said that whoever
[2:44:17] Speaker 1: follows the law will be great in the Kingdom of Heaven,
[2:44:20] Speaker 1: and whoever doesn't follow the law and teaches others not
[2:44:23] Speaker 1: to follow the law will be called Lisa and the
[2:44:24] Speaker 1: kingdom of heaven. So Jesus was definitely pro law of Moses.
[2:44:30] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[2:44:31] Speaker 11: Yeah, it wasn't until like Paul expanded upon that and
[2:44:34] Speaker 11: John okay a little bit, James, but not so much.
[2:44:40] Speaker 1: Yeah. So anyways, I mean, your position is deeply interesting,
[2:44:47] Speaker 1: but I need someone who can come up and will
[2:44:50] Speaker 1: have a debate with me. Yeah, totally understand, but I
[2:44:55] Speaker 1: appreciate you having a chat with me. I was intrigued
[2:44:58] Speaker 1: by your position to kind of see where you're coming
[2:45:01] Speaker 1: with some of these opinions, because like the Gnostics weren't crazy,
[2:45:05] Speaker 1: Like there's a reason why they came to some of
[2:45:07] Speaker 1: their conclusions. We don't get them too often on the
[2:45:10] Speaker 1: live stream. But we appreciate you coming up.
[2:45:14] Speaker 11: All right. Well, thanks glad to uh, glad to have
[2:45:19] Speaker 11: talked with you again. Have a good night, help you
[2:45:23] Speaker 11: help you catch some good ones.
[2:45:24] Speaker 1: Absolutely, drive safe. Thanks bye, Truth and friends. Just a
[2:45:31] Speaker 1: short reminder, do not drive in live. That is dangerous.
[2:45:35] Speaker 1: That's how you get hurt. We were talking to someone
[2:45:37] Speaker 1: a couple months ago that literally hit a curb wall
[2:45:40] Speaker 1: of the talking to me, and I said, that's why
[2:45:42] Speaker 1: you don't drive him live. That's why it's gonna be
[2:45:46] Speaker 1: a couple of super chats. Tam says Calvin Burned, severtis
[2:45:50] Speaker 1: alive for denying Trinity. Yeah over in Geneva, right. This
[2:45:55] Speaker 1: idea that only the Catholics were killing each other is
[2:46:00] Speaker 1: not actually true.
[2:46:01] Speaker 10: It's not.
[2:46:03] Speaker 1: Henry, Thank you for the supertest, says Mark ten eighteen
[2:46:05] Speaker 1: kills the Trinity. This is a couple of passages. I
[2:46:08] Speaker 1: think that kill the Trinity. I think the fact when
[2:46:10] Speaker 1: he says the Father is greater than I, I think
[2:46:13] Speaker 1: that's that's a crazy thing to say when you're also
[2:46:19] Speaker 1: suggesting that somehow you're equal, which he does. Don't just
[2:46:24] Speaker 1: say that. But to your point, Mark ten eighteen is
[2:46:27] Speaker 1: when Jesus says, why do you call me good? No
[2:46:30] Speaker 1: one is good but God alone. That's a crazy thing
[2:46:32] Speaker 1: to say. If Jesus is actually God. And Josh says,
[2:46:37] Speaker 1: guest is out the gate a dumb ass. I think
[2:46:40] Speaker 1: you're referring to the the prior one that tried to
[2:46:43] Speaker 1: get my life taken down, and I agree with you.
[2:46:45] Speaker 1: Josh Patty, thank you so much for the ten dollars
[2:46:49] Speaker 1: super thanks. I really appreciate that. And Stargate Master, thank
[2:46:53] Speaker 1: you for the supertest says that was very impressive. If
[2:46:56] Speaker 1: anyone else I've watched would have lost it on that kid.
[2:46:58] Speaker 1: Wait to show the perfect just position between us and them,
[2:47:01] Speaker 1: that's the point star Gate. Thank you for the super
[2:47:03] Speaker 1: chat though, But like listen, when these people come up,
[2:47:06] Speaker 1: here's feeling their hate like we shouldn't. It shouldn't have
[2:47:11] Speaker 1: to rattle us, like we're the ones standing on firm
[2:47:15] Speaker 1: ground here, the ground of Doug, to be precise, right,
[2:47:19] Speaker 1: So like when they come up here and they embarrass
[2:47:21] Speaker 1: themselves by acting like that, just let them do it.
[2:47:24] Speaker 1: Let let them make fools of themselves. Saint Brush big
[2:47:28] Speaker 1: w for the six sixty six Hail Satan says, Saint
[2:47:30] Speaker 1: Peter is the first vicar of Stone Doug. But the
[2:47:34] Speaker 1: Roman Church, obviously it was, has censored this Siliconian truth
[2:47:40] Speaker 1: absolutely is written in the letters of pope cement A
[2:47:44] Speaker 1: million percent, a million percent. That's why there were so
[2:47:48] Speaker 1: many pope cements. They the l the spelling clement is spurious.
[2:47:53] Speaker 1: It's a formality. They're They're all pope cements, except for
[2:47:58] Speaker 1: some of the bad ones. Thank you for the though,
[2:48:00] Speaker 1: that was pretty good, Saint Brush. Mister D says, you
[2:48:02] Speaker 1: should have told that guy that God was trans. Oh
[2:48:05] Speaker 1: my gosh, I haven't done that argument in so long,
[2:48:09] Speaker 1: but you're right. The kid who was dying to debate
[2:48:12] Speaker 1: the trans topic, I owe million percent should have said
[2:48:14] Speaker 1: the God of the Bible's trans. And I've got a
[2:48:17] Speaker 1: dine in my argument for that. It's just true, is
[2:48:20] Speaker 1: just logically factually true that the God of the Bible
[2:48:25] Speaker 1: is trans That's all there is to it. Nataniel, thank
[2:48:30] Speaker 1: you for the ten I was supertest says hello, justin
[2:48:32] Speaker 1: definitely not bribing you, but is there a way to
[2:48:35] Speaker 1: see the queue? I would love to debate you, but
[2:48:39] Speaker 1: it's kind of four am here. I think you mean
[2:48:42] Speaker 1: to jump ahead in the queue. I mean, if if
[2:48:47] Speaker 1: you're in here, oh you must be Nate.
[2:48:50] Speaker 2: Nate.
[2:48:50] Speaker 1: I thought there's a Nate in the queue, but I
[2:48:53] Speaker 1: assumed it was the Nate that I just talked to
[2:48:56] Speaker 1: because it came up at the same time. And sometimes
[2:48:59] Speaker 1: when when I talk to somebody and they drop out
[2:49:02] Speaker 1: and they have a bad connection, it'll show they're like
[2:49:05] Speaker 1: that they're hanging around in the queue, even though they're
[2:49:08] Speaker 1: not hanging around in the queue, and it looks exactly
[2:49:11] Speaker 1: like what you're showing up as. So I apologize, Nate.
[2:49:15] Speaker 1: I can pull you in. Not a problem. I didn't
[2:49:19] Speaker 1: actually think you were there. I thought that was an
[2:49:21] Speaker 1: artifact from the prior Nate. So I'll grab you. Nate,
[2:49:23] Speaker 1: don't worry and ninety forty big w thank you for
[2:49:27] Speaker 1: the ten hour super chat. Thank you for being a
[2:49:30] Speaker 1: number one fan. And also Patrick, thank you so much
[2:49:33] Speaker 1: for the tonight Supertest says, love your content and the
[2:49:36] Speaker 1: broad strokes. Well, thank you so much, Patrick, I appreciate
[2:49:41] Speaker 1: the generous support and thanks for watching, thanks for liking,
[2:49:44] Speaker 1: thanks for sharing. All right, let me get Nate in here.
[2:49:50] Speaker 1: Hi you doing, Nate?
[2:49:50] Speaker 2: Hello?
[2:49:51] Speaker 5: Hello? Can you hear me justin?
[2:49:52] Speaker 4: Yeah?
[2:49:53] Speaker 1: I can hear you. Sorry, you've been waiting for a
[2:49:55] Speaker 1: little bit.
[2:49:57] Speaker 5: No, that's completely fine. I knew there was another night,
[2:49:59] Speaker 5: but I didn't know if rejoining would put me into
[2:50:04] Speaker 5: the back of the queue.
[2:50:05] Speaker 1: And well, yeah, yeah, it's might. I don't worry. I
[2:50:09] Speaker 1: totally get it, and I've been there before late nights,
[2:50:13] Speaker 1: barely hanging on. So, Nate, what's your what's your background?
[2:50:16] Speaker 1: Are you a believer?
[2:50:19] Speaker 5: I am a former Seventh day Adventist. I was born
[2:50:25] Speaker 5: and raised in that church and in the very small country,
[2:50:28] Speaker 5: so my name is really easily anyhow. My grandpa was
[2:50:39] Speaker 5: was a pastor, so you must understand. I've heard all
[2:50:42] Speaker 5: the talking points. I The Bible is the book I
[2:50:47] Speaker 5: have read the most in my life, even if I
[2:50:49] Speaker 5: do not believe a single word of it. But being
[2:50:53] Speaker 5: raised the Seventh day Adventist kind of and in a
[2:50:57] Speaker 5: fully Christian family kind of forces you into believing a
[2:51:05] Speaker 5: lot of things that you wouldn't otherwise.
[2:51:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, it primes you to accept things that you wouldn't
[2:51:12] Speaker 1: normally accept. But it sounds like you're left, you're no
[2:51:15] Speaker 1: longer a Christian.
[2:51:17] Speaker 5: Yes, but I have a lot of questions of the
[2:51:21] Speaker 5: scripture and I would love to put an end to
[2:51:25] Speaker 5: my qugnitive dissonance.
[2:51:28] Speaker 1: You have called it, sure, Yeah, the situation.
[2:51:33] Speaker 5: Yeah, the bibble. For example, you you've talked about the Trinity,
[2:51:37] Speaker 5: and you said you had You have gone on on
[2:51:41] Speaker 5: this topic a lot. But I have a couple of verses,
[2:51:47] Speaker 5: for example, Psalm thirty three six is I sixty one
[2:51:54] Speaker 5: one and Proverbs nine to one that's talk about God's word,
[2:51:59] Speaker 5: God's spirit, and God's wisdom, And I want to know
[2:52:05] Speaker 5: how these do not relate to the Trinity, at least
[2:52:13] Speaker 5: if you take at fast value everything else. The bibble
[2:52:16] Speaker 5: has to.
[2:52:16] Speaker 1: Say, yeah, so you're kind of doing what Filo did.
[2:52:21] Speaker 1: So Filo of Alexandria had this general principle and it
[2:52:24] Speaker 1: shows up in the Psalms as well with Lady Wisdom
[2:52:27] Speaker 1: had this idea that like these characteristics of God can
[2:52:31] Speaker 1: be personified. But in the Proverbs it's not a literal
[2:52:40] Speaker 1: entity with thinking capacity. It's a metaphorical entity, right, and
[2:52:44] Speaker 1: Philo did the same thing. But like, so we had
[2:52:47] Speaker 1: this idea that like this entity, the Word of God
[2:52:51] Speaker 1: became flesh, and that's Jesus right to me, this is
[2:52:56] Speaker 1: the Bible. That's taking something that's clearly like an artistic
[2:53:02] Speaker 1: rendering of of a of an idea and creating a
[2:53:07] Speaker 1: literal case of it. And I just don't really think
[2:53:09] Speaker 1: that is the way the original texts were meant to
[2:53:12] Speaker 1: be in the Old Testament. I don't think that, Like,
[2:53:18] Speaker 1: I don't believe that like the characteristics of God could
[2:53:23] Speaker 1: or were thought to have taken on their own life force.
[2:53:28] Speaker 5: Okay, I understand. So it's just a fundamental misreading of
[2:53:33] Speaker 5: the actual text in area.
[2:53:36] Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a misreading. I think the
[2:53:38] Speaker 1: question we have to ask ourselves. Yeah, it's a it's
[2:53:42] Speaker 1: a different, different interpretation. Like so when we hear about Sophia,
[2:53:46] Speaker 1: you know, lady Wisdom, you know, are we suggesting that
[2:53:51] Speaker 1: there's an actual thinking entity like Wisdom is somehow embodied
[2:53:56] Speaker 1: as a thinking entity or is this more like a
[2:53:59] Speaker 1: me for like, for example, in Isaiah, when the nation
[2:54:03] Speaker 1: of Israel is personified as a single person. Well, the
[2:54:06] Speaker 1: nation of Israel clearly is not a single person. So like, yeah,
[2:54:11] Speaker 1: it seems to be like taking something that is a
[2:54:15] Speaker 1: little bit abstract and then personifying it as an individual
[2:54:20] Speaker 1: is kind of a helpful analogy for explaining how it works.
[2:54:24] Speaker 1: But I don't know if I would read that and
[2:54:26] Speaker 1: take that to be a literal situation where it's saying
[2:54:30] Speaker 1: that there's like there's an actual personification of wisdom that
[2:54:34] Speaker 1: is sentient.
[2:54:35] Speaker 5: Okay, okay, I completely understand your finds. I've heard you
[2:54:40] Speaker 5: make a disargument a lot still about the trinity that
[2:54:48] Speaker 5: I guess my issue with some of the points you
[2:54:53] Speaker 5: brought up is the at least my Seventh day Adventist
[2:54:59] Speaker 5: where I'm from, believe that it's a stupid analogy. But
[2:55:03] Speaker 5: God is like an egg, right, You have yoak, you
[2:55:06] Speaker 5: have the shell, you have the the whites, the egg whites,
[2:55:13] Speaker 5: And I guess the trinity would make sense in a
[2:55:16] Speaker 5: way that's the same way that the egg, the oak,
[2:55:20] Speaker 5: and the shell are an egg. The Father, the Son,
[2:55:24] Speaker 5: and always Spirit would be God, the entity that we
[2:55:28] Speaker 5: would call God.
[2:55:29] Speaker 1: Right, So, the I think the problem we have there
[2:55:32] Speaker 1: is and I think You're probably okay because you're a
[2:55:34] Speaker 1: Seventh Day Adventist, but you have to be okay with
[2:55:37] Speaker 1: the heresy of partialism. If you're okay with the heresy
[2:55:40] Speaker 1: of partialism, we can probably move beyond that.
[2:55:43] Speaker 5: But I am I am completely not okay with any
[2:55:48] Speaker 5: of these right. As I said, former Seventh Day Adventist.
[2:55:51] Speaker 5: I'm just bringing up the talking points that I haven't
[2:55:54] Speaker 5: necessarily heard you talking about, or atleast I haven't found them.
[2:55:59] Speaker 1: Because the problem with partialism is it denies the idea
[2:56:03] Speaker 1: that Jesus is one hundred percent God, and that God
[2:56:05] Speaker 1: is one hundred percent God, and that the Holy Spirit
[2:56:07] Speaker 1: is one hundred percent God. And so in Christianity, for
[2:56:12] Speaker 1: the Trinity to work out, you need to have this
[2:56:15] Speaker 1: idea that Jesus is one hundred percent God and one
[2:56:19] Speaker 1: hundred percent Man. But if you go to partialism, then
[2:56:22] Speaker 1: you're suggesting that, well, he's only part God, He's only
[2:56:25] Speaker 1: part of the thing that makes him God, which means
[2:56:28] Speaker 1: he's not actually God on his own, He's only part
[2:56:30] Speaker 1: of God. Okay, Okay, So what you could say is
[2:56:37] Speaker 1: it's kind of like saying, I am justin everything that
[2:56:44] Speaker 1: makes me. I'm a person I am justin right now,
[2:56:48] Speaker 1: my arm is a part of me, But my arm
[2:56:51] Speaker 1: is not justin. My arm is a part of me,
[2:56:53] Speaker 1: but my arm is not a person or a human,
[2:56:57] Speaker 1: It's just a part of something. Right. When we talk
[2:57:00] Speaker 1: about God, typically God doesn't have parts. God is completely whole.
[2:57:07] Speaker 5: So if it's what the I guess the Adventists would
[2:57:11] Speaker 5: call him, try you on the right. He is his auld,
[2:57:15] Speaker 5: but he's total in his partiality, the same way that
[2:57:21] Speaker 5: your arm is no less of a part of you
[2:57:24] Speaker 5: than your leg is. That's not my analogy, right.
[2:57:30] Speaker 1: But if if God is the whole, right, the part
[2:57:36] Speaker 1: is not the whole right, So it wouldn't be proper.
[2:57:39] Speaker 1: If Jesus is a part of God, then you couldn't
[2:57:42] Speaker 1: say that Jesus is God because he's not God. He's
[2:57:45] Speaker 1: only part of God. It's the same way that my
[2:57:47] Speaker 1: arm might be a part of me. My arm is
[2:57:50] Speaker 1: not me, So you couldn't say that my arm is justin.
[2:57:53] Speaker 1: You would say my arm is part of justin. So
[2:57:56] Speaker 1: when we talk when we talk about God, if we
[2:57:58] Speaker 1: truly believe that Jesus is God like he is identified
[2:58:03] Speaker 1: as God, then you can't say that he is just
[2:58:06] Speaker 1: a part of God, because being a part of God
[2:58:09] Speaker 1: it means that you're not actually identified being equaled with God,
[2:58:13] Speaker 1: because God is the whole, not the part.
[2:58:17] Speaker 5: Okay, I completely I completely agree. I see actal clearly
[2:58:22] Speaker 5: where the dynalogy falls apart. But I guess just hearing
[2:58:27] Speaker 5: it repeated so many times over, I guess kind of
[2:58:30] Speaker 5: molds you into believing things that not even the Bible
[2:58:35] Speaker 5: believes in.
[2:58:37] Speaker 1: Right, And so the early Church fathers did talk about
[2:58:40] Speaker 1: partialism quite a bit, and in fact, the way I
[2:58:43] Speaker 1: worded it is pretty weak. There's some really good arguments
[2:58:46] Speaker 1: against partialism in the early Church. If we really want
[2:58:50] Speaker 1: to check them out, shoot me a DM on the discord.
[2:58:57] Speaker 1: I'm going to. I'll send you some of the early
[2:58:59] Speaker 1: Church reputations on partialism.
[2:59:03] Speaker 5: Okay, I will. You were saying early refutations on partialism. Okay.
[2:59:13] Speaker 5: Something that I would also when you talk about, is
[2:59:20] Speaker 5: about the Great controversy, or at least what the Seventh
[2:59:24] Speaker 5: day Adventists call it. And in their view, obviously God
[2:59:32] Speaker 5: is all just, God is all right, and everything evil
[2:59:36] Speaker 5: comes from Satan, all evil, all sin, everything that is
[2:59:43] Speaker 5: wrong with nature, everything that that that it goes wrong.
[2:59:49] Speaker 5: In our personal lives is the fruits of our sin,
[2:59:54] Speaker 5: and that sin, that sin began in in the Garden
[2:59:59] Speaker 5: of Ita. I've already talked about this, specifically the myth
[3:00:05] Speaker 5: of creation before the origins of it. And I guess
[3:00:14] Speaker 5: my issue is that this claim is unfalsifiable, right, that
[3:00:22] Speaker 5: God is just and all evil comes from Satan. I
[3:00:25] Speaker 5: guess it's just I don't know what the logical fellowsy is,
[3:00:31] Speaker 5: but begging the question, maybe that's something.
[3:00:35] Speaker 1: Well maybe, And I think the problem is if you're
[3:00:37] Speaker 1: talking to a Christian and talking about like the origin
[3:00:39] Speaker 1: of evil and things like that, make them root it
[3:00:43] Speaker 1: in the Bible, because in the Bible it doesn't say
[3:00:46] Speaker 1: that all evil, and you know, all pain and suffering
[3:00:50] Speaker 1: comes from a devil that seems to not be there
[3:00:52] Speaker 1: at all. In fact, Satan can literally only do what
[3:00:55] Speaker 1: God allows him to do. In the Book of Job,
[3:00:57] Speaker 1: we see that in the Book of Job he God
[3:01:01] Speaker 1: grants him permission to do the horrific stuff that happens
[3:01:04] Speaker 1: to Job. In the New Trustament, even Jesus says that
[3:01:08] Speaker 1: Satan has requested to sift you. So like this idea
[3:01:14] Speaker 1: that all the bad stuff comes from Satan is isn't true.
[3:01:17] Speaker 1: According to the Bible, the bad stuff that Satan does
[3:01:20] Speaker 1: is sanctioned by God. God allows me to do it.
[3:01:24] Speaker 5: I completely agree. From all the reading I've I've seen,
[3:01:28] Speaker 5: I've done the Bible, I couldn't find much evidence that
[3:01:34] Speaker 5: all evil comes from Satan specifically. And I guess this
[3:01:40] Speaker 5: is a lot of I say, our beliefs, But my
[3:01:46] Speaker 5: previous religions belief.
[3:01:49] Speaker 4: Was that.
[3:01:52] Speaker 5: Based in a lot of I don't want to call
[3:01:54] Speaker 5: it biblical fan fiction, but if you're familiar with the
[3:01:59] Speaker 5: Seventh Adventists and Dante Inferno, you'll see a lot of parallels.
[3:02:07] Speaker 5: But I guess my point is Satan. God would allow
[3:02:16] Speaker 5: Satan to do all all these things in the Seventh
[3:02:20] Speaker 5: day Adventist view, because God wants to to prove in
[3:02:26] Speaker 5: a way to everybody else that he is just, and
[3:02:30] Speaker 5: he gave us free will to rein over ourselves the
[3:02:34] Speaker 5: same way he allows the devil to to show us
[3:02:43] Speaker 5: that everything is on his civil and he's directly opposed
[3:02:47] Speaker 5: to God.
[3:02:49] Speaker 1: Why does he need to prove it?
[3:02:53] Speaker 5: That's a great question. That's a great question.
[3:02:57] Speaker 1: It's kind of a silly thing that a perfect deity
[3:02:59] Speaker 1: would even have the desire to prove anything like, he
[3:03:04] Speaker 1: wouldn't have to prove it. He could just communicate it
[3:03:06] Speaker 1: perfectly to everybody just using telepathy.
[3:03:11] Speaker 5: Yeah, but I guess if you are God's and you
[3:03:15] Speaker 5: create angels and you create Satan, it's like having a kid.
[3:03:23] Speaker 5: You No, I guess that's not my good analogy. God
[3:03:30] Speaker 5: doesn't have to prove anything to anybody, but he, if
[3:03:34] Speaker 5: he is good, he would allow Satan to happen in
[3:03:39] Speaker 5: spite of knowing that he would oppose directly to him.
[3:03:43] Speaker 5: I guess this is a talking point.
[3:03:46] Speaker 1: Right, But I think the talking point that you were
[3:03:48] Speaker 1: starting with was that God is doing this to prove
[3:03:51] Speaker 1: to people, right. So, but if God was doing something
[3:03:54] Speaker 1: to prove to people, it seems like he's taking the
[3:03:56] Speaker 1: most long, arduous, beaten path around the band that he
[3:04:00] Speaker 1: could find. When he could just snap his fingers and
[3:04:04] Speaker 1: we will all know using whatever magical powers he has,
[3:04:08] Speaker 1: he doesn't have to do this long, weird, drawn out
[3:04:11] Speaker 1: battle with Satan or battle with evil or anything.
[3:04:15] Speaker 5: Yeah. I completely agree with you. Again, this was a
[3:04:19] Speaker 5: lot of cognitive dissonance growing up believing both that God
[3:04:23] Speaker 5: is all just and all powerful, but he also couldn't
[3:04:25] Speaker 5: stop an angel from doing infinite atrocities against humanity, so right, Yeah.
[3:04:34] Speaker 1: And he created that angel and he's all knowing. He
[3:04:37] Speaker 1: knew everything that Satan was going to do before Satan
[3:04:40] Speaker 1: did it, which means God responsible for all the stuff
[3:04:44] Speaker 1: that Satan didn't.
[3:04:46] Speaker 5: Yeah, I completely agree. The God of the Old Testament
[3:04:51] Speaker 5: is a nevil god there that I have literally no
[3:04:54] Speaker 5: argument constead.
[3:04:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you on that one. If he existed evil.
[3:04:58] Speaker 5: That's for sure exactly. And for example, the guy if
[3:05:02] Speaker 5: you remember Mike, he was shotting someone pleasant things. And
[3:05:06] Speaker 5: if that's the God at Mike actually believes in, which
[3:05:09] Speaker 5: I believe he was just a troll. But if that's
[3:05:13] Speaker 5: the God he believes in, I want nothing to do
[3:05:16] Speaker 5: with him.
[3:05:17] Speaker 11: Yeah.
[3:05:17] Speaker 1: Could you imagine like saying that kind of nonsense in public,
[3:05:20] Speaker 1: thinking that like God's going to be proud of you.
[3:05:22] Speaker 1: It's the most insane thing in the world. That's That's
[3:05:26] Speaker 1: an even crazier god than the God that's in this book.
[3:05:31] Speaker 5: Yeah, I completely completely agree. Again, I genuinely hope he
[3:05:36] Speaker 5: doesn't hold any of the beliefs he said he does,
[3:05:40] Speaker 5: or else I would be very very worrid for But yeah, yeah,
[3:05:43] Speaker 5: for sure. Again I'm considering all these points because I've
[3:05:49] Speaker 5: heard of all these talking points and I'd realized I'm insane.
[3:05:52] Speaker 5: This sound. But I do still have questions. It wasn't
[3:05:58] Speaker 5: join up.
[3:05:58] Speaker 1: Our discord and you can chat with me and others
[3:06:01] Speaker 1: in discord. There's a lot of people there that are
[3:06:03] Speaker 1: quite knowledgeable, and I would probably love to have some
[3:06:07] Speaker 1: discussion on some of these topics. But I've got probably
[3:06:11] Speaker 1: enough time to get one more good debate in, so
[3:06:13] Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to find someone to debate me. You
[3:06:16] Speaker 1: kind of course, all right, cheers, friend, thank you so much.
[3:06:19] Speaker 1: Good to hear for me, Nate right, big w.
[3:06:25] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[3:06:25] Speaker 1: Leaving the Seventh Day Adventis is hard. They really believe
[3:06:29] Speaker 1: that they've got it all figured out. I've got a
[3:06:31] Speaker 1: brother that's stuck in the Seven Day Adventist and he
[3:06:34] Speaker 1: just thinks all the other Christians are dumb. They're the
[3:06:36] Speaker 1: only ones he got it figured out. As thank you
[3:06:39] Speaker 1: for the fight out of supertest Is. Gee, I wasn't
[3:06:41] Speaker 1: going to give my heart to Jesus today, but after
[3:06:43] Speaker 1: listening to philbro diarrhea, I think I will. Isn't that crazy.
[3:06:48] Speaker 1: I'm so sorry I got this many super chests backed up.
[3:06:51] Speaker 1: I apologize. I've tried. You guys know me. I try
[3:06:54] Speaker 1: to read every super Chest that comes through, because, like,
[3:06:57] Speaker 1: I love you guys, you're my supporters. You're the reason
[3:06:59] Speaker 1: why this channel exists. Yes, but you know, sometimes I
[3:07:02] Speaker 1: get so many that just get backed up. Bryce says,
[3:07:05] Speaker 1: the enemy within transporter accident equals to kirks. I'm afraid
[3:07:10] Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. Again, Bryce, I know
[3:07:14] Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense to you, but I
[3:07:16] Speaker 1: have no idea what that means. I don't know what
[3:07:19] Speaker 1: transporter accident means, and I don't know what two kirks mean.
[3:07:24] Speaker 1: Snorted Rock. Now I'm permanently rock hard for Doug. Mm listen,
[3:07:29] Speaker 1: Doug's here for it. Get stoned for the stone, all right, friends,
[3:07:33] Speaker 1: and Tam says, religion really does a number on people's
[3:07:35] Speaker 1: minds and hearts. It's sad. That's the whole reason why
[3:07:39] Speaker 1: we're here. That's the whole point of doing these debates. Johannah,
[3:07:43] Speaker 1: thank you for the super says evolution is logical, observable,
[3:07:46] Speaker 1: and quite easily easy to understand. Religious books never mind.
[3:07:50] Speaker 1: I'm with you, Like, if you just look at the
[3:07:52] Speaker 1: evidence for evolution, I just think it's really compelling. I
[3:07:56] Speaker 1: used to not believe in it as a youngster, not fully.
[3:08:00] Speaker 1: Then I looked at the evidence and I was convinced.
[3:08:02] Speaker 1: I mean, just got to look at it. Satan says, Hi,
[3:08:05] Speaker 1: justin your life is better than any TV show. Well
[3:08:09] Speaker 1: and any TV show.
[3:08:10] Speaker 4: Listen.
[3:08:10] Speaker 1: I really appreciate that, Satan. Those are like really fine
[3:08:13] Speaker 1: words coming from you. Appreciate the vote of support from
[3:08:19] Speaker 1: the dark Lord big w and Beethoven is God. Interesting name,
[3:08:25] Speaker 1: and thank you for the six six. Because I'm a
[3:08:27] Speaker 1: brand new member, I'm also proud to support a channel
[3:08:29] Speaker 1: that brings a sense of reason and rationality to the world.
[3:08:32] Speaker 1: Praise Doug and Beethoven. Listen. I like me some Beethoven.
[3:08:36] Speaker 1: I've never thought of Beethoven as a god, but I
[3:08:40] Speaker 1: might consider it now that you've brought it to the
[3:08:42] Speaker 1: forefront and still a taxes. When did Doug first appear
[3:08:45] Speaker 1: in your live a couple months ago? There's a video
[3:08:50] Speaker 1: that you can watch about Doug. I think it's the
[3:08:54] Speaker 1: title is like Doug, It's a scoreboard, Doug one hundred
[3:08:58] Speaker 1: Jesus zero. I think that's the episode condensed down a
[3:09:01] Speaker 1: little bit where I first introduced Doug. It was a
[3:09:04] Speaker 1: wild episode. I never I never imagined it would turn
[3:09:07] Speaker 1: out to what it is. And Zim says, I love
[3:09:10] Speaker 1: when Doug is mentioned in other comment sections, those outside
[3:09:14] Speaker 1: the deacon zone must be thinking, to quote the prophet Hadasa,
[3:09:18] Speaker 1: who is Doug? This is crazy. I'll come into like
[3:09:22] Speaker 1: the live the live stream on like AXP or the
[3:09:27] Speaker 1: line or somebody else, and I'll just say something in
[3:09:30] Speaker 1: the chat. All of a sudden it explodes with like
[3:09:32] Speaker 1: hail Doug. Doug is a force of nature, obviously, because
[3:09:36] Speaker 1: he is nature. And Josh says, I like Judy, I
[3:09:40] Speaker 1: prefer to take I prefer her take more than theis,
[3:09:45] Speaker 1: her take more than theis. Yeah, I agree, And she
[3:09:48] Speaker 1: was sweet. I didn't want to debate her. She was
[3:09:50] Speaker 1: a nice lady. Let her have it, you know what
[3:09:52] Speaker 1: I mean? And Soil textays I can hear Christian saying
[3:09:55] Speaker 1: Judy is being punished for her atheism. What is sweetheart?
[3:09:58] Speaker 4: She is?
[3:09:58] Speaker 1: She really was a sweetheart, really was bean dogs? Is
[3:10:02] Speaker 1: are we doing cracking? How late we going? Well? I'm
[3:10:05] Speaker 1: going for like another forty five minutes. I can't do
[3:10:08] Speaker 1: any crack and I've got to wake up super early
[3:10:11] Speaker 1: in the morning and go to work, which is of
[3:10:14] Speaker 1: that's why the live stream started late as well, because
[3:10:17] Speaker 1: I was at work, so unfortunately, you know, unfortunately I
[3:10:23] Speaker 1: can't stay up late. D Bone, thank you for the supertest, says,
[3:10:26] Speaker 1: what's the deal with all the drama in the atheist community.
[3:10:29] Speaker 1: Derek at Mythvision had a video about people I've never
[3:10:32] Speaker 1: heard of last week. So there's been some stuff happening
[3:10:35] Speaker 1: with my friend Derek at Mythvision, and it pains me
[3:10:39] Speaker 1: that the community is kind of divided in fighting. This
[3:10:42] Speaker 1: is one of the reasons why I don't do a
[3:10:45] Speaker 1: lot of politics unless it's like a pet issue, is
[3:10:48] Speaker 1: because people get really bent out of shape over politics,
[3:10:50] Speaker 1: and you'd be surprised how many atheists disagree on politics.
[3:10:55] Speaker 1: I don't want it to get distracted. I don't want
[3:10:57] Speaker 1: people to get distracted from the cause of atheism by
[3:11:01] Speaker 1: dumb political movements. That being said, that seems to be
[3:11:05] Speaker 1: what happened with Derek. Derek is starting to get caught
[3:11:08] Speaker 1: up in some you know, some political backlash for doing
[3:11:16] Speaker 1: videos with Bob Price. I still don't know the issue
[3:11:21] Speaker 1: with Bob Price. I know that some people are upset
[3:11:23] Speaker 1: with them. I don't actually know why. I've I've asked
[3:11:27] Speaker 1: a couple of people. I haven't really got a lot
[3:11:29] Speaker 1: of explanations. I've gotten accusations. I don't know if any
[3:11:33] Speaker 1: of them are true, so I reserve judgment. I'm kind
[3:11:36] Speaker 1: of on the outside of this issue looking in. I
[3:11:39] Speaker 1: don't really know what happened. I wasn't there. What I
[3:11:43] Speaker 1: do know is that I've watched Derek's channel for quite
[3:11:46] Speaker 1: a bit. He's a great guy. That's all I can
[3:11:49] Speaker 1: really say about that. The people that might be disagreeing
[3:11:54] Speaker 1: with them on this matter, I know them personally too,
[3:11:56] Speaker 1: and they're great as well. I don't the problem with
[3:12:00] Speaker 1: these issues. I don't think that there's necessarily a bad
[3:12:05] Speaker 1: actor here. I think there's an honest disagreement on where
[3:12:11] Speaker 1: you know certain principles lie, and you know where the
[3:12:14] Speaker 1: boundaries of our community happen to be. And I think
[3:12:18] Speaker 1: we're kind of fighting that out in real time. By us,
[3:12:22] Speaker 1: I mean not me, mostly other people in the community.
[3:12:25] Speaker 1: People who know me and been around my channel know
[3:12:27] Speaker 1: well that I support as many people as humanly possible.
[3:12:31] Speaker 1: I have a very broad tent. I will talk to
[3:12:34] Speaker 1: people that disagree with me on topics I draw the
[3:12:37] Speaker 1: line when people say things or are advocating for dangerous
[3:12:42] Speaker 1: or hurtful positions. If I see someone that's advocating for
[3:12:47] Speaker 1: position that is simply hurtful to the trans community, or
[3:12:52] Speaker 1: to the LGBTQ community, or to an ethnic group or
[3:12:57] Speaker 1: a marginalized community of any nature, I'm going to stand
[3:13:00] Speaker 1: up for those people, and I'm going to protect them
[3:13:02] Speaker 1: to the best of my ability. I can't protect people
[3:13:05] Speaker 1: from bad ideas. Sometimes you have to get the bad
[3:13:08] Speaker 1: ideas out in the open and discuss them. You can't
[3:13:10] Speaker 1: just cancel people because of them. But there are occasions
[3:13:14] Speaker 1: in which sometimes people say some like they say too
[3:13:19] Speaker 1: many things, and you said, listen, I don't know if
[3:13:21] Speaker 1: this person belongs to my community. And so that kind
[3:13:25] Speaker 1: of a vague answer to what's happening with Derek right now.
[3:13:30] Speaker 1: As an outsider myself looking at what's happening, who loves
[3:13:34] Speaker 1: Derek and loves a lot of people involved in the
[3:13:36] Speaker 1: whole situation, to me, it's sad to watch the community
[3:13:41] Speaker 1: fight with each other. But anyways, that being said, I
[3:13:44] Speaker 1: will continue to support people in my community and people
[3:13:48] Speaker 1: in other communities as long as those communities are not
[3:13:52] Speaker 1: being harmful to each other, and then I have to
[3:13:54] Speaker 1: play referee a little bit, So I probably can't give
[3:13:57] Speaker 1: you any more information than that. You'll have to do
[3:14:00] Speaker 1: a little research on your own. But that's kind of
[3:14:05] Speaker 1: I guess you'd say, that's kind of my two cents
[3:14:06] Speaker 1: on what the drama is all about. I can't give
[3:14:09] Speaker 1: you specifics. You gotta go elsewhere for that because I
[3:14:14] Speaker 1: don't really know all the specifics. So unfortunately, I can't
[3:14:18] Speaker 1: be any more helpful than that. And I've probably already
[3:14:20] Speaker 1: said too much. But Marcus, thank you so much for
[3:14:23] Speaker 1: the supertest, says are you familiar with Matt Dela Honey? Obviously,
[3:14:26] Speaker 1: who isn't right, he says, If so, what is your
[3:14:29] Speaker 1: opinion on his approach to speaking with apologists. Well, I
[3:14:32] Speaker 1: think he's a little ham fisted myself. I think he's
[3:14:36] Speaker 1: I do think he's great. You know, he was one
[3:14:38] Speaker 1: of the reasons why I do what I do. He
[3:14:40] Speaker 1: was one of my influences. That being said, man, I
[3:14:45] Speaker 1: think he can communicate better. I would love for him
[3:14:48] Speaker 1: to be able to keep as cool sometimes. But listen,
[3:14:52] Speaker 1: sometimes they need cooked. Sometimes you get people up there
[3:14:54] Speaker 1: like this person needs to get cooked. And if someone's
[3:14:57] Speaker 1: gonna do it. It's gonna be Matt. Matt'll cook some
[3:15:00] Speaker 1: So I love that. I think he's he has a
[3:15:02] Speaker 1: great place in the world, and I love his voice
[3:15:06] Speaker 1: in the community, even if he's doing things that aren't
[3:15:09] Speaker 1: the way I would do things. And satcom thank you
[3:15:12] Speaker 1: so much for the ten dour super thanks. I appreciate
[3:15:15] Speaker 1: that in fierce interaction, my friend. Good to see you tonight.
[3:15:18] Speaker 1: Thank you for the twenty hours, super chest so glad
[3:15:19] Speaker 1: to catch you, even if late. You've inspired me to
[3:15:22] Speaker 1: pick up a study Bible and to learn more about
[3:15:25] Speaker 1: this infernal book, maybe one based on the NRSV. Would
[3:15:29] Speaker 1: you recommend one. So the study Bible that's based on
[3:15:34] Speaker 1: the NRSV that I prefer is the New Oxford Annotated Bible.
[3:15:38] Speaker 1: You can also pick up a copy of the Westminster
[3:15:42] Speaker 1: Study Bible. That's a good one, and you may also
[3:15:44] Speaker 1: want to look at the SBL Study Bible. All of
[3:15:47] Speaker 1: them in the NRSV. The SBL Study Bible is in
[3:15:51] Speaker 1: the NRSV Updated Edition, and the Westminster might be in
[3:15:55] Speaker 1: the updated edition as well since it was released in
[3:15:57] Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, So those are good options. You may
[3:16:03] Speaker 1: also want to consider the Catholic Study Bible third edition.
[3:16:08] Speaker 1: That will be the na b R an amazing translation,
[3:16:12] Speaker 1: amazing study Bible. In fact, I would say my top
[3:16:15] Speaker 1: two study Bibles are the NRSV NRSV fifth edition for
[3:16:25] Speaker 1: the New Oxford Annotated Study Bible, and then the second
[3:16:28] Speaker 1: favorite is the Catholic Study Bible that is currently in
[3:16:33] Speaker 1: the third edition. It's a great study Bible. And Snipes
[3:16:37] Speaker 1: is forty four year old. Here, I was an atheist
[3:16:39] Speaker 1: for forty years. Thanks for doing something that hasn't been
[3:16:42] Speaker 1: widely done in thousands of years, standing up for sanity.
[3:16:45] Speaker 1: I do what I can, Snipes, I really that's the goal.
[3:16:48] Speaker 1: I want a better, saner, normal world to live in,
[3:16:52] Speaker 1: and so I'm going to fight to that end. And
[3:16:57] Speaker 1: we're just a couple more super chats friends. Jim Mastie says,
[3:17:02] Speaker 1: oh sorry, I got a double super chat. You clearly
[3:17:05] Speaker 1: never you clearly have never been. Say you clearly have
[3:17:11] Speaker 1: never we been in situations where men's robes are removed
[3:17:17] Speaker 1: in a hot frenzy while enjoying a romantic evening in
[3:17:20] Speaker 1: a garden. I don't think I've been in that situation.
[3:17:24] Speaker 1: I can't say that was a thing. I've never been
[3:17:27] Speaker 1: disrobed in a garden. But it sounds sounds like something
[3:17:33] Speaker 1: from mythology. It would be a fun read for sure,
[3:17:37] Speaker 1: and rock hard for Doug. Good to see you tonight, friend,
[3:17:40] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the Superchat says whenever look
[3:17:43] Speaker 1: at the Trees's reference, I just want to say, look
[3:17:46] Speaker 1: at the mountains. Praise Doug and Sharon Stone. Let's go justin.
[3:17:50] Speaker 1: That's such a good point. I cannot wait. I've been
[3:17:53] Speaker 1: talking about it and I've still never done it. I
[3:17:55] Speaker 1: cannot wait to give the argument look at the trees,
[3:17:59] Speaker 1: but for dog and just see what Christians do with it.
[3:18:02] Speaker 1: It should be hilarious. All right, let's grab Alex from
[3:18:09] Speaker 1: our Q. How you doing, Alex?
[3:18:12] Speaker 4: Hey? Can you hear me?
[3:18:13] Speaker 1: Yeah? I can hear you.
[3:18:15] Speaker 2: Oh hey. So I know the discussion is to prove God,
[3:18:21] Speaker 2: but I kind of wanted to ask if I can
[3:18:24] Speaker 2: kind of twist it a little bit and instead of
[3:18:29] Speaker 2: saying prove God, say prove why a person should believe
[3:18:34] Speaker 2: in God.
[3:18:38] Speaker 1: Well, I'm not sure that's meaningful to me. I mean
[3:18:41] Speaker 1: it might be meaningful to you. I mean, there are
[3:18:45] Speaker 1: probably some decent reasons to believe in a God. If
[3:18:48] Speaker 1: you imagine the right God. I just why would I
[3:18:52] Speaker 1: want to believe in something that's clearly not true? And
[3:18:55] Speaker 1: then if I'm going to believe in things that are
[3:18:57] Speaker 1: clearly not true, why would I draw the line at God?
[3:18:59] Speaker 1: Why wouldn't I believe in all kinds of things that
[3:19:01] Speaker 1: aren't true?
[3:19:03] Speaker 2: So my argument is that if we were to believe
[3:19:09] Speaker 2: in a God, there would only be one God worth
[3:19:11] Speaker 2: to believing in, because let's say that there is five
[3:19:17] Speaker 2: gods that you could believe in. One God is going
[3:19:22] Speaker 2: to require you to go to war with other people
[3:19:25] Speaker 2: in order to get something out of him, and then
[3:19:29] Speaker 2: another God. I guess to simplify it, there can only
[3:19:34] Speaker 2: be one God where morality would matter, So any other
[3:19:42] Speaker 2: type of God would not be worth believing in.
[3:19:46] Speaker 1: Right, But I'm saying, if I'm just going to make
[3:19:48] Speaker 1: up things to believe in, why would I stop at God?
[3:19:51] Speaker 1: Why don't I just make up all kinds of things
[3:19:52] Speaker 1: that I don't believe in as long as they serve
[3:19:54] Speaker 1: a purpose?
[3:19:56] Speaker 2: I mean, you could, but like, like, for example, unicorn, Right,
[3:20:05] Speaker 2: you could make up that unicorns might exist, but ultimately,
[3:20:11] Speaker 2: but like ultimately, it wouldn't really serve your life any purpose,
[3:20:16] Speaker 2: Like believing in a unicorn. Well, I mean that's fine then.
[3:20:20] Speaker 1: Right, But if we're just saying that we we should
[3:20:24] Speaker 1: believe in things if they provide some kind of a
[3:20:26] Speaker 1: mental or emotional benefit for us, Like, there's no limit
[3:20:30] Speaker 1: to what I would you know, I could make up, so.
[3:20:37] Speaker 2: Because like in what form that God is I'm not
[3:20:40] Speaker 2: necessarily arguing with that, because yeah, that that God could
[3:20:44] Speaker 2: be in a unicorn. If that's what makes you comfortable,
[3:20:47] Speaker 2: I guess.
[3:20:48] Speaker 1: But in addition to God, like I'm saying, let me
[3:20:52] Speaker 1: pretend that there is a God that exists or ten gods,
[3:20:54] Speaker 1: who knows, why can't there also be a you know,
[3:20:59] Speaker 1: a unicorn that travels around that grants people a conscience,
[3:21:07] Speaker 1: not consciousness, but a conscience, Like you know, let your
[3:21:10] Speaker 1: conscience be your God. Why shouldn't I believe in the
[3:21:13] Speaker 1: moral god giving unicorn?
[3:21:17] Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if you make up other things that
[3:21:22] Speaker 2: believe in, then at least to me personally, it's fine,
[3:21:25] Speaker 2: just as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. But like,
[3:21:29] Speaker 2: for example, if you said you must believe in this
[3:21:32] Speaker 2: unicorn that I believe in, then that's where it becomes
[3:21:34] Speaker 2: the issue.
[3:21:36] Speaker 1: But if someone came up seeing unicorn, you'll burn in hellm.
[3:21:40] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[3:21:41] Speaker 2: See that's where it becomes an issue because if a
[3:21:45] Speaker 2: God is moral, then well, when I say moral, I
[3:21:50] Speaker 2: actually don't want to use the word moral. I want
[3:21:52] Speaker 2: to use the word good because there's only one kind
[3:21:56] Speaker 2: of God that could be good, and that is the
[3:21:59] Speaker 2: God that is merciful and loving, because.
[3:22:03] Speaker 1: I don't think Hell is merciful or loving.
[3:22:07] Speaker 2: Well, yeah, see, that's the thing is I don't necessarily
[3:22:11] Speaker 2: believe in Christianity or Abrahamic religions.
[3:22:16] Speaker 6: I think like.
[3:22:19] Speaker 2: I think the Abrahamic religions were trying to interpret God,
[3:22:25] Speaker 2: but ultimately they're all human beings. And I think actually
[3:22:30] Speaker 2: the Garden of Eden is a story about how people
[3:22:37] Speaker 2: started making subjective morality. So and that's the real issue
[3:22:42] Speaker 2: because from there they went to different tribes and then
[3:22:47] Speaker 2: you end up with Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and that's all
[3:22:53] Speaker 2: because of the Garden of Eden.
[3:22:55] Speaker 1: Do you believe in a specific God.
[3:23:00] Speaker 2: Like for a specific religion? Me, Yeah, not necessarily, because
[3:23:07] Speaker 2: I mean I think all of the religions are trying
[3:23:09] Speaker 2: to interpret the same God but differently. Like for example,
[3:23:15] Speaker 2: if I look at a painting, we'll see I want
[3:23:23] Speaker 2: to argue that at the end of the day, either
[3:23:27] Speaker 2: God exists or he doesn't, and so like thinking it
[3:23:33] Speaker 2: this way, But that's not.
[3:23:35] Speaker 1: That's not the argument you're suggesting. You're saying, it doesn't
[3:23:37] Speaker 1: matter if he exists, we should believe in him any ways.
[3:23:41] Speaker 2: We'll see in my argument is that we should believe
[3:23:44] Speaker 2: in him because there's a fifty percent chance that it exists.
[3:23:49] Speaker 2: It might be a he might it might not be,
[3:23:51] Speaker 2: he could be whatever. But well, what I really mean
[3:23:57] Speaker 2: is that at the end of the day, maybe not
[3:24:00] Speaker 2: fifty to fifty, but at the end of the day
[3:24:04] Speaker 2: fifty to fifty in the sense of either he either
[3:24:07] Speaker 2: a God doesn't exist or it does. And if a
[3:24:10] Speaker 2: God doesn't exist, then nothing matters. You can just do
[3:24:13] Speaker 2: whatever you want. But if a God does exist, then
[3:24:17] Speaker 2: let's say you go out and beat up a lot
[3:24:19] Speaker 2: of old ladies or something, then you'll have to answer
[3:24:22] Speaker 2: for that.
[3:24:23] Speaker 1: I don't think. So why does God existing mean that
[3:24:26] Speaker 1: you have to answer for beating up an old lady?
[3:24:30] Speaker 2: If God was good?
[3:24:31] Speaker 1: I mean, all right, but why would I assume that
[3:24:33] Speaker 1: God is good? I think what the evidence we have
[3:24:35] Speaker 1: of the world around is what we would assume that
[3:24:37] Speaker 1: God is not good, in fact, that he's evil.
[3:24:40] Speaker 2: Well, if God is not good, then nothing matters because
[3:24:45] Speaker 2: even if human beings try to make a moral system,
[3:24:49] Speaker 2: nobody has to obey it. Like the someone could just say, hey,
[3:24:54] Speaker 2: I'm going to get together a lot of people and
[3:24:57] Speaker 2: we're just going to conquer everything, and whoever doesn't agree
[3:25:02] Speaker 2: with it, we're just going to kill them, and there
[3:25:04] Speaker 2: would be no issue with that.
[3:25:06] Speaker 1: No, there would be an issue with it. People who
[3:25:08] Speaker 1: do that nonsense now get put away. Right, So in society,
[3:25:12] Speaker 1: you don't have to follow the rules, but if you
[3:25:14] Speaker 1: don't follow the rules, we're going to deal with you.
[3:25:17] Speaker 1: That's how societies work.
[3:25:20] Speaker 2: Let's say that a large group of people got together
[3:25:23] Speaker 2: and they overpowered everyone else, because then obviously this has
[3:25:29] Speaker 2: been happening throughout history, right where a large group of
[3:25:32] Speaker 2: people get together and they say my beliefs are correct
[3:25:36] Speaker 2: and your beliefs are wrong, and so we are going
[3:25:38] Speaker 2: to go in there and basically kill you, and no
[3:25:43] Speaker 2: one stops it. So I mean, what is stopping them
[3:25:47] Speaker 2: from keep doing that?
[3:25:48] Speaker 1: They do stop it. That's how wars work. Sometimes you win,
[3:25:51] Speaker 1: sometimes you lose.
[3:25:54] Speaker 2: But I mean, ultimately, what I mean, though, is that
[3:25:56] Speaker 2: the war's still happened, So like, well, there's still dead.
[3:26:02] Speaker 1: That's the instruction of God.
[3:26:06] Speaker 2: Well, so, because like you're saying that God must not
[3:26:11] Speaker 2: be good because.
[3:26:13] Speaker 1: Though there is no God. So what you're suggesting that
[3:26:17] Speaker 1: there there must be a god?
[3:26:19] Speaker 5: Other?
[3:26:19] Speaker 1: Why there's no punishment for bad behavior? There is no
[3:26:22] Speaker 1: punishment for bad behavior?
[3:26:23] Speaker 2: We know. Well, actually I'm not saying must I'm saying
[3:26:27] Speaker 2: there might be. Well I don't think there's so, but here,
[3:26:32] Speaker 2: let me give you this scenario, like what but again,
[3:26:35] Speaker 2: I'm arguing for a good God, not like a God
[3:26:39] Speaker 2: that judges you because you're gay.
[3:26:41] Speaker 1: Why are you arguing for good God? Why would I
[3:26:43] Speaker 1: believe that there's a good God as opposed an evil god?
[3:26:47] Speaker 2: Books like us saying if there's an evil God or
[3:26:50] Speaker 2: if there was no God, then no, nothing's really going
[3:26:55] Speaker 2: to ever get better because there's no one there too
[3:27:00] Speaker 2: that people from killing each other.
[3:27:01] Speaker 1: For example, God's not preventing people from killing each other.
[3:27:03] Speaker 2: Now, yeah, but what I mean is, well, because there's
[3:27:14] Speaker 2: a thing of like you can let people do something
[3:27:18] Speaker 2: for a certain amount of time because ultimately it's not
[3:27:22] Speaker 2: that big of a deal to you because there's going
[3:27:25] Speaker 2: to be some kind of like final judgment or something
[3:27:28] Speaker 2: like that.
[3:27:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, and the reason why God allows the chaos is
[3:27:32] Speaker 1: eventually because he's going to you know, judge everybody in
[3:27:35] Speaker 1: the end. But by making that argument, you're actually seeding
[3:27:38] Speaker 1: that your first argument is false, which is that the
[3:27:40] Speaker 1: reason why we need God to exist is because you know,
[3:27:44] Speaker 1: he prevents us from doing all the bat shit. When
[3:27:46] Speaker 1: I tell you all the bad shit we're doing, You're like, well, yeah,
[3:27:48] Speaker 1: but he's going to fix it in the end, which
[3:27:50] Speaker 1: means that the need for God and the seem to
[3:27:53] Speaker 1: be there.
[3:27:54] Speaker 2: Well, I'm kind of saying they go kind of hand
[3:27:56] Speaker 2: in hand in the sense that a better way to
[3:28:02] Speaker 2: explain it is not necessarily that God stops it during
[3:28:06] Speaker 2: this life in this realm, but that God is like
[3:28:10] Speaker 2: the gatekeeper to the next life t I thing, So
[3:28:15] Speaker 2: he doesn't stop it here. But like, let's say that
[3:28:18] Speaker 2: you've killed all of your life and then you go
[3:28:21] Speaker 2: to judgment, then you would not go to the next life.
[3:28:25] Speaker 1: Well, why would we believe that there's another life?
[3:28:30] Speaker 2: Well, like I was saying, it's more of like an
[3:28:32] Speaker 2: insurance aspect, So.
[3:28:36] Speaker 1: It's better to believe in a god that's going to
[3:28:38] Speaker 1: punish you in the after life because it might deter
[3:28:40] Speaker 1: some people's behaviors. That what you're getting at.
[3:28:43] Speaker 2: Only if that God is good in the sense of
[3:28:49] Speaker 2: merciful and loving.
[3:28:51] Speaker 1: No, because if he's merciful and loving, then you don't
[3:28:54] Speaker 1: get the punishment in the after life. That's the opposite
[3:28:56] Speaker 1: of what you get. So well that you're thinking of,
[3:29:00] Speaker 1: isn't all that all that sensible? In fact, Well, believe
[3:29:05] Speaker 1: in a God that just reincarnates you instead of punishes you.
[3:29:09] Speaker 1: Why would reincarnation not be that's a full step instead
[3:29:12] Speaker 1: of punishment.
[3:29:15] Speaker 2: Well, I mean that is a form of punishment in
[3:29:17] Speaker 2: a sense. But the word punishment, I guess is a
[3:29:21] Speaker 2: loose word. But I mean.
[3:29:24] Speaker 1: I mean that God create the earth with hurricanes and
[3:29:27] Speaker 1: tornadoes and volcanoes.
[3:29:31] Speaker 2: Well, I mean I could give you ideas as to why,
[3:29:36] Speaker 2: but ultimately that wouldn't really determined because that's kind of
[3:29:41] Speaker 2: like saying why do parents exist? Because you know, kids
[3:29:47] Speaker 2: could technically just you know, evolve on their own in theory.
[3:29:52] Speaker 1: But it has nothing to do what I'm talking about.
[3:29:54] Speaker 1: Does you does your God.
[3:29:56] Speaker 2: Career in a sense?
[3:30:02] Speaker 1: Did he create the earth?
[3:30:07] Speaker 2: Well, because I don't a party doesn't really want to
[3:30:10] Speaker 2: go down this road just because I'm not sure you're not.
[3:30:18] Speaker 5: I mean, I would is.
[3:30:20] Speaker 1: Your god a god or is any a super involved demiod.
[3:30:28] Speaker 2: Well, whether it's a demigod or god or anything like that,
[3:30:32] Speaker 2: that's not my main point.
[3:30:34] Speaker 1: I think you're I think you're missing my point. You're
[3:30:38] Speaker 1: defining a god that you want to be punishing people
[3:30:42] Speaker 1: or or being a curtailment for people's sin. But then,
[3:30:47] Speaker 1: like when it comes to looking at what he actually did,
[3:30:49] Speaker 1: like namely, create the earth and humankind and all that nonsense,
[3:30:53] Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you know you don't want to
[3:30:55] Speaker 1: look at that God because it seems like that God
[3:30:57] Speaker 1: is kind of like contradicting what you think of the
[3:31:01] Speaker 1: all good God. Like do you think that God necessarily
[3:31:03] Speaker 1: must be good? But God can't necessarily be good if
[3:31:06] Speaker 1: he created this earth, which is full of all of
[3:31:08] Speaker 1: the unnecessary suffering.
[3:31:12] Speaker 2: Well, I mean, like a lot of people argue that,
[3:31:15] Speaker 2: because that's the thing. I can come up with tons
[3:31:17] Speaker 2: of arguments, and I know one argument is that it's
[3:31:21] Speaker 2: more of like a test to see how people behaved,
[3:31:26] Speaker 2: because I think God is maybe all knowing in the
[3:31:31] Speaker 2: sense of he knows the past, and he knows the present,
[3:31:35] Speaker 2: but he doesn't know the future.
[3:31:37] Speaker 1: What is God testing you for when an earthquake hits
[3:31:41] Speaker 1: and a building collapses on top of.
[3:31:42] Speaker 2: You, to see if you will still be a good
[3:31:46] Speaker 2: person to others or if you will start like scrounging
[3:31:50] Speaker 2: stuff nice and like killing other people.
[3:31:53] Speaker 1: No, you're dead. The building collapse on you.
[3:31:57] Speaker 2: Well, like you was saying, it's possible that there's like
[3:31:59] Speaker 2: things like reading our nation.
[3:32:01] Speaker 1: So so what's what's the test? If he's just killing
[3:32:04] Speaker 1: you with a falling building, what's the test for?
[3:32:07] Speaker 2: Well, you wouldn't be testing you per se, but you're
[3:32:09] Speaker 2: testing the people that survive.
[3:32:12] Speaker 1: Okay, And how does brutally murdering their loved ones count
[3:32:17] Speaker 1: as a test?
[3:32:20] Speaker 4: Well?
[3:32:20] Speaker 2: Because ultimately, like, if you're concerned about the eternal life,
[3:32:27] Speaker 2: then like one specific life, isn't that that big of
[3:32:30] Speaker 2: a deal. Like to a person that might seem like
[3:32:32] Speaker 2: that big of a deal, but yeah, if you're doing
[3:32:36] Speaker 2: in terms of like everlasting life, it's not that big
[3:32:38] Speaker 2: of a deal.
[3:32:40] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[3:32:40] Speaker 1: So if you believe in reincarnation, then in fact, you
[3:32:45] Speaker 1: have even less of a deterrent for committing crimes because
[3:32:49] Speaker 1: you're like, well, it's okay, I'm you know whatever.
[3:32:52] Speaker 2: My next one is, I would think that God's intelligent too.
[3:32:56] Speaker 2: I mean, if you know you're constantly doing that, if
[3:33:00] Speaker 2: he created natural disasters, well, I mean that's all debatable,
[3:33:05] Speaker 2: but cancer, well, let's know it's a thing too. Is like,
[3:33:12] Speaker 2: maybe God is not absolutely perfect because like, uh, you
[3:33:17] Speaker 2: got so.
[3:33:18] Speaker 1: God is is not the creative all things. He's probably
[3:33:22] Speaker 1: not all knowing. Now, he's not all perfect. At some point,
[3:33:25] Speaker 1: you probably just have to admit that your God is
[3:33:27] Speaker 1: like fancy, like fanciful. It's just something you dreamed up
[3:33:30] Speaker 1: in your head because.
[3:33:32] Speaker 2: Well it's.
[3:33:36] Speaker 1: Afterlife.
[3:33:38] Speaker 2: Well, it's just that things can have limits. I mean,
[3:33:40] Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be black and white. It doesn't
[3:33:43] Speaker 2: have to be either. He's either all bad or all good.
[3:33:47] Speaker 2: Like if you think about it mathematically, maybe it is
[3:33:50] Speaker 2: better to because I ultimately think that probably God has
[3:33:54] Speaker 2: to deal in duality, so he can't make everything perfect
[3:33:58] Speaker 2: because if everything was perfect and nothing would exist, I disagree,
[3:34:02] Speaker 2: because that would be mathematically zero.
[3:34:04] Speaker 1: That's not what perfect means. Perfect just means without lacking anything.
[3:34:09] Speaker 2: So like mathematical zero, everything was nothing to do with perfection. Well,
[3:34:14] Speaker 2: if everything was perfect. Like, what do you mean by perfect?
[3:34:19] Speaker 1: I mean not lacking anything. Zero is the definition of lack.
[3:34:22] Speaker 1: It's complete lack.
[3:34:24] Speaker 2: It means okay, so then that the number one everything
[3:34:27] Speaker 2: would have to be the number one.
[3:34:29] Speaker 1: Well no, no, number one is just the number one.
[3:34:32] Speaker 1: But listen, this conversation is one that isn't actually going
[3:34:36] Speaker 1: to be going anywhere, and it isn't actually compelling as
[3:34:40] Speaker 1: a conversation. So I'm gonna I'm gonna move on to
[3:34:42] Speaker 1: the next caller. But thanks for coming up. Okay, truth,
[3:34:50] Speaker 1: Well here's nice at least. All right, let me grab
[3:34:52] Speaker 1: some super chats so we'll keep on roll in and
[3:34:56] Speaker 1: rock hard for Doug again, Thank you so much. I
[3:34:58] Speaker 1: appreciate that.
[3:34:59] Speaker 4: Friend.
[3:35:00] Speaker 1: Also, I'm pretty sure in the Book of Doug, I
[3:35:02] Speaker 1: think Joshua something, it says trees grow on mountains, except
[3:35:07] Speaker 1: they can't reach the summit. So trees do actually grow
[3:35:11] Speaker 1: on mountains. And we do need to really get to
[3:35:16] Speaker 1: the Book of Doug and make this reality. We need
[3:35:18] Speaker 1: to publish a book of Doug. It started in the discord,
[3:35:21] Speaker 1: we just haven't really filled it out and make the
[3:35:25] Speaker 1: best of what it's around. Says. The film Zeitgeist is
[3:35:27] Speaker 1: helped me deconstruct interesting. I've not actually seen it. I
[3:35:31] Speaker 1: don't really do conspiracy theories, but it probably is interesting.
[3:35:35] Speaker 1: Zeitgeist probably brings up some decent points. At least I've
[3:35:41] Speaker 1: read that one already. Matt. Matt, thank you so much
[3:35:44] Speaker 1: for the twenty hour Supertest says, isn't it problematic for
[3:35:48] Speaker 1: the Jesus was Gone theory that Jesus didn't appear to
[3:35:50] Speaker 1: know that the major stories that, oh, yeah, we did
[3:35:53] Speaker 1: do that. When I apologize, I'm sorry, guys, I'm getting
[3:35:57] Speaker 1: crazy backed up and lost in these, Johanna says, my
[3:36:01] Speaker 1: logical mind just can't wrap itself around the trinity. What
[3:36:05] Speaker 1: drug were these guys when they came up with that?
[3:36:07] Speaker 1: Bologney see that it's like necessity is the mother of invention.
[3:36:14] Speaker 1: I suspect that people were recognizing that, like Christianity is polytheism,
[3:36:19] Speaker 1: and they're like, we fack, we got to invent something.
[3:36:22] Speaker 1: And so they're like, it's not polytheism. Jesus is God.
[3:36:25] Speaker 1: Oh of course, okay, sure, sure he is. Explain to
[3:36:29] Speaker 1: how he's how he's got Well, there's a thing called trinity.
[3:36:32] Speaker 1: It's it's nonsensical. That's my how I envision it, Booget,
[3:36:37] Speaker 1: says Dez streaming on my twenty sixth Hell yeah, stay great, well,
[3:36:41] Speaker 1: thank you and today's twenty eighth, what oh twenty sixth birthday?
[3:36:47] Speaker 1: Maybe Booget, if it's your birthday, Happy birthday, big w
[3:36:50] Speaker 1: thanks for being here on your birthday. And men, thank
[3:36:53] Speaker 1: you for the supertest, says I think this caller's a
[3:36:55] Speaker 1: gender is too bash Oh agendas you did there is
[3:37:00] Speaker 1: to bash gender identities. That's adorable. Praise Doug. If Doug
[3:37:04] Speaker 1: will not stand for it, he'll sit for it because
[3:37:08] Speaker 1: he's a rock. But he's rock hard for all genders
[3:37:12] Speaker 1: and all gender expressions. And Johannah, thank you for the
[3:37:15] Speaker 1: super chat again, says this asshole should talk to Forrest
[3:37:18] Speaker 1: Falci kill this call. Yeah, I love Forest when he
[3:37:21] Speaker 1: handles these topics. He's the he's the expert. And Mattie says,
[3:37:26] Speaker 1: WHOA didn't see that coming? I did. I'm a prophet.
[3:37:30] Speaker 1: I kind of saw that coming. I've talked that goofball
[3:37:33] Speaker 1: before and he's an idiot. But thank you for the
[3:37:36] Speaker 1: super chat and Aaron, good to see you tonight, fellow dragon.
[3:37:39] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sending out the ten d
[3:37:41] Speaker 1: Z gifted memberships a big big w really appreciate that. Friend,
[3:37:47] Speaker 1: and Brian, thank you so much for the super chat.
[3:37:50] Speaker 1: You're so no need to I'm going to read it anyways,
[3:37:54] Speaker 1: no need to read, just admired how you handled the bigot,
[3:37:57] Speaker 1: big respect.
[3:37:58] Speaker 4: Well.
[3:37:58] Speaker 1: Thank you Brian for some in the channel. I really
[3:38:00] Speaker 1: appreciate the support. And Marduke is with us tonight. Good
[3:38:04] Speaker 1: to see you, mar Duke and great new updated picture.
[3:38:07] Speaker 1: I appreciate that ten dollars super chat and keep on
[3:38:10] Speaker 1: truck and friend, great to hear from you. His shadow says,
[3:38:13] Speaker 1: the racist coller obsessed with gender was so far in
[3:38:17] Speaker 1: the closet he was in Narnia. Actually that's actually most
[3:38:21] Speaker 1: likely the case. He probably was. I think so. And
[3:38:27] Speaker 1: Johannah says, all these theas ever talk about is God,
[3:38:30] Speaker 1: the Father and our Lord. I guess they don't have
[3:38:33] Speaker 1: enough brain cells to give any credit to a female
[3:38:36] Speaker 1: for his like mother nature. Listen, if there's a God,
[3:38:39] Speaker 1: you can't convince me it's not a female. It's gotta
[3:38:42] Speaker 1: be the maker of all life. It just it makes
[3:38:45] Speaker 1: perfect sense. I'm with you and Adele, thank you so
[3:38:49] Speaker 1: so much Adele for the twenty hour superchat big w friend,
[3:38:52] Speaker 1: and good to see you again here tonight, says officially
[3:38:57] Speaker 1: on vacation with rock Hard for the rest of the weekend.
[3:39:00] Speaker 1: And hell yeah, I hope you're getting some good vacation
[3:39:02] Speaker 1: time in, says ask the discord chap when it was
[3:39:06] Speaker 1: too soon to crack the crack in, and they said,
[3:39:08] Speaker 1: I was already late. A few of these callers, a
[3:39:12] Speaker 1: few of these callers, and I definitely poured the rum. Listen,
[3:39:14] Speaker 1: I don't blame you. I'm surprised I'm not in the Kraken,
[3:39:19] Speaker 1: but I've unfortunately I've got to work. But listen, this
[3:39:23] Speaker 1: coming weekend, I'm going to be doing some cracking pores
[3:39:26] Speaker 1: with you. And Johannah says, no, THEUS would have a
[3:39:28] Speaker 1: personal experience with God or Jesus if they never been
[3:39:31] Speaker 1: in doctrinated by religion. And I agree, they only think
[3:39:36] Speaker 1: they're having experiences. They're not. We know the truth. And
[3:39:40] Speaker 1: Johannah says, Doug is the rolling stone who gathers no moss,
[3:39:42] Speaker 1: meaning no bullshit attach it to itself to him, And
[3:39:45] Speaker 1: obviously that is the case. Doug never collects moss ever,
[3:39:54] Speaker 1: because he's rolling, he's moving, he's rock Hard, he's rocking
[3:39:57] Speaker 1: and rolling friends and Carlos, thank you so much for
[3:40:00] Speaker 1: the super chat, big w he says, Hey, justin so
[3:40:03] Speaker 1: today only coke cracking on weekend salude. Unfortunately, I can't
[3:40:08] Speaker 1: do any cracking tonight. I've got to wake up early
[3:40:10] Speaker 1: for work. And you know, life being what life is, Unfortunately,
[3:40:15] Speaker 1: you have to get to play by the rules sometimes.
[3:40:18] Speaker 1: And Johannah says, God didn't create good and evil. How
[3:40:21] Speaker 1: can he? He doesn't exist. Some people are born with
[3:40:24] Speaker 1: a scrambled brain, rotten apples and factory rejects. You're not wrong.
[3:40:30] Speaker 1: Some people are born with less capacity. That is the case, actually,
[3:40:35] Speaker 1: And the ungooglable man good to see it tonight. Thank
[3:40:37] Speaker 1: you for the six sixty six friend, he says. Ever
[3:40:39] Speaker 1: since I heard about Doug, I've been seeing rocks everywhere, gravel, driveway, walmart, parking, lots, gardens. Coincidence,
[3:40:45] Speaker 1: It's not a coincidence. Your eyes have been opened to Doug.
[3:40:50] Speaker 1: Doug is now in your heart, so all you're gonna
[3:40:53] Speaker 1: see Doug and everything. And Johannah says, the first of
[3:40:57] Speaker 1: the seven rules of life is let it go. Religous
[3:41:00] Speaker 1: beliefs should be the first to let go of I agree,
[3:41:03] Speaker 1: couldn't agree more. You don't need it. They don't serve
[3:41:06] Speaker 1: a purpose, they don't help you, they don't get you anywhere.
[3:41:09] Speaker 1: Thank you for that sentiment, and PJ, good to see
[3:41:12] Speaker 1: your friend. Thank you for the super chat tonight, says,
[3:41:14] Speaker 1: would you mind giving a quick rundown of the extent
[3:41:16] Speaker 1: of the Old Testament rejection. For example, I've been told
[3:41:19] Speaker 1: the Ten Commandments don't imply anymore. Yeah, that's crazy. Unfortunately,
[3:41:23] Speaker 1: it depends on who you ask. Now, according to the
[3:41:25] Speaker 1: New Testament, it's just theoretically the dietary laws until you
[3:41:30] Speaker 1: get to Paul in the Book of Acts, the dietary
[3:41:32] Speaker 1: laws or poop pooed. Peter in Acts chapter ten gets
[3:41:35] Speaker 1: the vision of the sheet coming down with the clean
[3:41:37] Speaker 1: and unclean animals, and God declares that these unclean foods
[3:41:41] Speaker 1: are now clean for you to eat. Paul takes it
[3:41:43] Speaker 1: a step further and says, all of the law has
[3:41:46] Speaker 1: been done away with, all of its decrees, all of
[3:41:48] Speaker 1: its requires have been done away with. So according to Paul,
[3:41:51] Speaker 1: you don't have to follow anything in the law. But
[3:41:53] Speaker 1: Paul unfortunately has the backtrack on that on several occasions
[3:41:57] Speaker 1: and say, well, you don't have to follow the law anymore.
[3:41:59] Speaker 1: But if you do these sins X, Y, and Z,
[3:42:02] Speaker 1: then you'll go to hell. So Paul himself can't quite
[3:42:04] Speaker 1: figure it out. And the lists of sins that will
[3:42:09] Speaker 1: land you in hell are various. Seems to be just
[3:42:12] Speaker 1: kind of throwing spaghetti at the wall. Jesus and Jesus
[3:42:16] Speaker 1: didn't say that. Jesus said to follow the law. Matthew
[3:42:18] Speaker 1: five seventeen through nineteen and Cher's oldest daughter A great Name, says,
[3:42:24] Speaker 1: God said he created good and evil, so evil is good. Yeah,
[3:42:29] Speaker 1: if God is all good for sure? Yeah. In fact,
[3:42:31] Speaker 1: Isaiah forty five seven says that he creates the delight
[3:42:34] Speaker 1: in the darkness, both peace and calamity, or the peace
[3:42:37] Speaker 1: and evil. Raw in hebrewis means calamity or evil or badness.
[3:42:44] Speaker 1: Marduk again coming in, thank you for that, says did
[3:42:46] Speaker 1: you watch Hadasa on Joel's Live? Not the second time,
[3:42:50] Speaker 1: only the first time. I need to get around to it.
[3:42:52] Speaker 1: I haven't got around to it, but I'm going to
[3:42:54] Speaker 1: get to it. Mar Duke, I heard it was another
[3:42:56] Speaker 1: epic crash out. And Johannah coming in again, thank you.
[3:43:00] Speaker 1: Johannah says fake news all of it. How about the Bible,
[3:43:03] Speaker 1: mister Trump, the God's Honest Truth. I've read it cover
[3:43:07] Speaker 1: to cover, especially two Corinthians. Every time I hear Trump
[3:43:12] Speaker 1: say two Corinthians, it makes me chuckle. He's not the
[3:43:15] Speaker 1: only one that does it. I've heard it before, but
[3:43:17] Speaker 1: it's crazy. And sci Fi says, I know Doug is
[3:43:22] Speaker 1: real because I had to pay him five bucks to
[3:43:25] Speaker 1: notice me a true prophet. That is a good play
[3:43:30] Speaker 1: on words, sci Fi and Doug always notices you, he
[3:43:33] Speaker 1: really does. He notices you extra though when you send
[3:43:36] Speaker 1: super jats big w though. Thank you for supporting the channel.
[3:43:41] Speaker 1: And I think there's our last one from Johannah. Johannah
[3:43:43] Speaker 1: says only men can think. Without God's moral code, everyone
[3:43:47] Speaker 1: would be out killing, graping and pillaging. Women are here
[3:43:50] Speaker 1: to be the voice of reason. Can we have some respect?
[3:43:52] Speaker 4: Please?
[3:43:52] Speaker 1: You'll get it from me, Johannah. You will get the
[3:43:54] Speaker 1: respect that you deserve for me. Women make the world
[3:43:58] Speaker 1: go round. We wouldn't be here with them, our mothers,
[3:44:01] Speaker 1: and things would be much better off if we actually
[3:44:03] Speaker 1: had some balance in our power. And we're able to,
[3:44:11] Speaker 1: you know, we're able to have half of our brain
[3:44:14] Speaker 1: trust in action. And I think that's our last super time.
[3:44:19] Speaker 1: Maybe we got one more in the other Q fierce
[3:44:25] Speaker 1: interaction coming in with another one. Thank you, says thanks
[3:44:27] Speaker 1: for the study Bible recommendation. Just ordered the new Oxford
[3:44:30] Speaker 1: annotated with apography n RSV. Praise Doug and of course
[3:44:34] Speaker 1: justin looking forward to having no time to read it. Well,
[3:44:37] Speaker 1: I'm in the same boat quite often. But we're going
[3:44:40] Speaker 1: to read it bit by bit as much as we can,
[3:44:43] Speaker 1: although I've been through it. But big w on ordering
[3:44:46] Speaker 1: the study bubble, learn to love it, make sure order
[3:44:48] Speaker 1: tabs and tab it up. And last one from Soott says,
[3:44:54] Speaker 1: the more you learn about science, the more you learn
[3:44:56] Speaker 1: our existence is a true natural miracle in the sprawl
[3:45:00] Speaker 1: of hostile space. Embrace that instead. It's truly more incredible
[3:45:04] Speaker 1: than anything we've made. I disagree. I don't think it's
[3:45:07] Speaker 1: a miracle. I think it's just the laws of physics
[3:45:09] Speaker 1: and we're all gonna be wiped out and annihilated in
[3:45:12] Speaker 1: one day anyways. But I get it. I understand that
[3:45:15] Speaker 1: when you look at like the Birth, or you look
[3:45:17] Speaker 1: at the Majestic Mountain as you are filled with awe
[3:45:20] Speaker 1: and you think you know what a miraculous thing that
[3:45:22] Speaker 1: we're all here. You know what I mean, I get that,
[3:45:24] Speaker 1: I just wouldn't call it a miracle. And listen, friends,
[3:45:28] Speaker 1: it's late. I got to get offline. Thank you so
[3:45:31] Speaker 1: much for all the likes and the shares and the
[3:45:33] Speaker 1: gifts and support. And thank you Big Daddy and Bertram
[3:45:37] Speaker 1: and Parker and Loan Drow for the gifts on TikTok
[3:45:41] Speaker 1: and Bad Religion, and Ashley and Preston Astronova, Justine Algorithm,
[3:45:47] Speaker 1: Andrea and Red Shoes, Whiskey Punch, Lisa's with us as well.
[3:45:51] Speaker 1: Thank I thank you so much for all the likes
[3:45:53] Speaker 1: and the shares and the support, and I really appreciate
[3:45:56] Speaker 1: you guys supporting the work. I know today was kind
[3:45:59] Speaker 1: of a weird day. We had some slow moving guests
[3:46:02] Speaker 1: and the lives started late. But we should be back
[3:46:07] Speaker 1: on track. Well we should be. We should have a
[3:46:10] Speaker 1: longer live stream on Friday night, and then we'll adjust
[3:46:16] Speaker 1: later this week Sunday to a summer schedule. We'll talk
[3:46:19] Speaker 1: more about that Sunday, but anyways, guys, thank you so
[3:46:21] Speaker 1: much for being here. I'm gonna go to bed and
[3:46:25] Speaker 1: I really appreciate you guys. Thank you Moderators for being
[3:46:28] Speaker 1: here Moderating couldn't do it without you, and we'll see
[3:46:32] Speaker 1: you again in a couple of nights.

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