# 2025-04-30 LIVE DEBATE \[God is Imaginary\]

An episode of [Deconstruction Zone](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1837730286), 11 Sep 2025, 2 h 57 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/67728408/live_debate_god_is_imaginary_4_30_2025.mp3

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## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: The first picture of the Earth wasn't the first The
[0:05] Speaker 1: first picture of the Earth wasn't digital. It was taken
[0:08] Speaker 1: on like standard film strip. Like the negative still exists
[0:11] Speaker 1: in a museum.
[0:14] Speaker 2: Where where what is the film strips owing?
[0:18] Speaker 1: I'll show you. Yeah, I would like to see that.
[0:26] Speaker 1: Let's see where they have it housed. The pale blue
[0:29] Speaker 1: dot is what they refer to the picture, and the
[0:34] Speaker 1: photo negative is where is it resting currently? Let's see.
[0:45] Speaker 1: Let me ask Google where is the blue dot photo negative?
[1:00] Speaker 1: I don't know. Google's not giving me an answer. I
[1:03] Speaker 1: might have to ask Planet Peterson, because I think he
[1:05] Speaker 1: was the one that I had this discussion with. I
[1:09] Speaker 1: apologize though, but it was taken on on like a
[1:14] Speaker 1: traditional camera, not not the type that you not the
[1:19] Speaker 1: type that you and I get to use. It was
[1:23] Speaker 1: a much more expensive edition. But anyways, the fact of the
[1:28] Speaker 1: matter is, I mean I worked with a lot of
[1:30] Speaker 1: electronics that require the Earth to actually be around. So,
[1:35] Speaker 1: for example, like satellites would never work the way that
[1:39] Speaker 1: we do GPS long range positioning. The satellites have to
[1:44] Speaker 1: be orbiting a globe Earth.
[1:50] Speaker 2: Satellites like how far how high up do they have
[1:54] Speaker 2: to be? Because I don't think they're actually in space there,
[1:57] Speaker 2: they're hovering in the atmosphere of Earth.
[2:00] Speaker 1: They have to be pretty high. No, I mean they're
[2:03] Speaker 1: not hovering, No, they're they're circuling. Also, the photo I
[2:07] Speaker 1: was thinking of is called the blue marble, not the
[2:09] Speaker 1: blue dot, and the blue Marble negative is at the
[2:13] Speaker 1: Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. Thank you chat for
[2:17] Speaker 1: that one. I appreciate the correction there. Yeah. So, yeah,
[2:21] Speaker 1: the blue marble photo was taken on on standard like
[2:24] Speaker 1: photo film. Also, Mark Buman, thank you so much. Yeah,
[2:36] Speaker 1: I do like we've got I think eleven different reflectors
[2:40] Speaker 1: left on the Moon from like six different countries.
[2:49] Speaker 2: Really, yeah, I didn't know that.
[2:51] Speaker 1: Yeah, the various universities used them for for different purposes.
[2:59] Speaker 1: It's and you can, like you can do a laser
[3:02] Speaker 1: distance to the Moon. You can measure how far the
[3:05] Speaker 1: Moon is using a powerful laser.
[3:11] Speaker 2: Okay, I believe that. Yeah. I mean now, I just
[3:17] Speaker 2: feel like there's a lot of things that we have
[3:19] Speaker 2: been taught that were false, that are not true, and
[3:21] Speaker 2: that confuses a lot of people from actually learning the truth.
[3:26] Speaker 1: Well maybe, well let's talk let's talk a little bit
[3:28] Speaker 1: more about the Bible so, I mean, one reason why
[3:33] Speaker 1: I don't trust the Bible is because I know that
[3:35] Speaker 1: there there's a round. Another reason is because it like
[3:40] Speaker 1: it says things that are blatantly it says things that
[3:44] Speaker 1: are blatantly contradictory. So like I would expect if I
[3:48] Speaker 1: was reading the Bible that it didn't just straight up
[3:50] Speaker 1: contradict itself in a bunch of different places. But is
[3:53] Speaker 1: that a reasonable expectation?
[3:59] Speaker 2: I unders saying, While you say that, and I used
[4:01] Speaker 2: to feel the same way until I actually read it carefully.
[4:05] Speaker 2: I want to say, on the surface, you can seem contradictory,
[4:08] Speaker 2: can seem they always assume.
[4:09] Speaker 1: I've never read that. I don't know why they did.
[4:10] Speaker 2: That fantastical, But I do feel like when you go
[4:17] Speaker 2: back and read the Bible, you get you gain an
[4:19] Speaker 2: understanding of how God works and God never changes. We changed,
[4:24] Speaker 2: humans changed, you know what I'm saying, because we've been
[4:26] Speaker 2: in perfect.
[4:27] Speaker 1: Actually that's a really good thing. It's a really good
[4:30] Speaker 1: point that you brought up the point. You know where
[4:32] Speaker 1: the Bible says that God doesn't change. You know where
[4:35] Speaker 1: that comes from. Where there's a verse in numbers twenty
[4:42] Speaker 1: three nineteen and another one in First Samuel. In fact,
[4:46] Speaker 1: I'll grab him for you if you give me just
[4:48] Speaker 1: a second.
[4:51] Speaker 2: All right, all right, can a chance to see my camera?
[4:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, they can see you, although your connection is kind
[5:02] Speaker 1: of cutting in and out. So in number twenty three
[5:06] Speaker 1: nineteen it says God is not a human being, that
[5:08] Speaker 1: he should lie or mortal, that he should change his mind?
[5:12] Speaker 1: Has he promised and will he not do it? Has
[5:14] Speaker 1: he spoken to willingham fulfill it? So the parallel to
[5:17] Speaker 1: that is in First Samuel fifteen, where he says I
[5:20] Speaker 1: regret earth, sorry not there we go fifteen twenty nine
[5:25] Speaker 1: more over the Glory of Israel. Yeahweh obviously will not
[5:28] Speaker 1: deceive or change his mind, for he is not a
[5:30] Speaker 1: mortal that he should change his mind. So we wouldn't
[5:34] Speaker 1: expect God to like to find God changing his mind
[5:37] Speaker 1: throughout the Bible. Right, I think the guest's Wi Fi
[5:47] Speaker 1: changed its mind having no trouble staying connected, having some
[5:58] Speaker 1: big this a big trouble staying connected. All right, King,
[6:05] Speaker 1: you got three bars again?
[6:06] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[6:09] Speaker 1: All right, come back, king, if you can still hear
[6:11] Speaker 1: my voice, it disconnected you. If you can still hear
[6:13] Speaker 1: my voice, connect to Wi Fi and come back. Because
[6:17] Speaker 1: I'd love to finish the conversation we were having, but
[6:20] Speaker 1: until you get wi FI, I'm going to have to
[6:22] Speaker 1: move on to the next guest. We've got Ben waiting
[6:24] Speaker 1: to get in, and also Mark Bauman, thank you for
[6:27] Speaker 1: the one hundred fifty dollars over Venmo, Big W. Mark Bauman,
[6:30] Speaker 1: I really appreciate the continued support. Let's get some ws
[6:33] Speaker 1: in the chat for Mark. Thank you so much for
[6:35] Speaker 1: supporting the channel. I greatly appreciate that, Mark. And we've
[6:39] Speaker 1: got a couple of super chats to grab real quick
[6:42] Speaker 1: as well. La Silver Surfer, thank you so much. L
[6:46] Speaker 1: A Silver Sifer for the ninety to nine super Thanks
[6:49] Speaker 1: big W, and welcome to the Crack and Crew Elite.
[6:54] Speaker 1: My game melts fast, thank you for joining. And big W. Gordo,
[7:02] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the five dollars super thanks.
[7:04] Speaker 1: And we got space Lord in the house tonight. Get
[7:06] Speaker 1: to see a space Lord, says Sweet Tiny Pebble Doug
[7:09] Speaker 1: and make a joyful sound. You know we're gonna rock
[7:12] Speaker 1: it for Doug. Guys, we are gonna rock it for
[7:14] Speaker 1: Doug and Ray. Thank you so much for this six
[7:17] Speaker 1: sixty six super chest says would love to see you
[7:21] Speaker 1: debate Jeff Durbin Deconstruction Zone versus apology of studios SmackDown. Actually,
[7:26] Speaker 1: I don't know who Jeff Durbin is. There's a lot
[7:30] Speaker 1: of like apologists on the apologists circuit, and I really
[7:36] Speaker 1: don't know who any of them are. I stopped following
[7:39] Speaker 1: the apologist nonsense a long time ago, like even when
[7:45] Speaker 1: I was a young Christian, when I realized they didn't
[7:47] Speaker 1: have anything to offer. So I have no idea who
[7:51] Speaker 1: Durbin is, but all the best to him. Hopefully, if
[7:54] Speaker 1: he has something to offer, we can get him in
[7:56] Speaker 1: the stream sometimes. And Johannes Brahm, thank you for the
[7:58] Speaker 1: five hour super Chet says, you can't prove God without faith.
[8:01] Speaker 1: The definition of faith is lack of proof, but there's proof.
[8:04] Speaker 1: I don't think Choa has thought this through. No, he's
[8:07] Speaker 1: nice enough, but I don't think he's I don't know
[8:09] Speaker 1: if he's used many of these talking points before, but
[8:13] Speaker 1: w for being nice at least. And Jam and Jay,
[8:15] Speaker 1: welcome to the stream tonight says in Genesis three twenty two,
[8:19] Speaker 1: is God scared humans will usur a film yep one
[8:22] Speaker 1: hundred percent? And this is common in the ancient Babylonian text.
[8:26] Speaker 1: That's why later on in chapter nine when they have
[8:29] Speaker 1: the chapter eleven, when they have the tower, they have
[8:33] Speaker 1: to wreck the tower. It says there's nothing that they
[8:38] Speaker 1: can't do. And if you read like the Book of
[8:40] Speaker 1: Joshure and some other texts, it's pretty clear that the
[8:43] Speaker 1: goal was to storm the heavens, to go up and
[8:47] Speaker 1: dethrone God. So yeah, I mean, you nailed it. In
[8:52] Speaker 1: Genesis three twenty two, God is afraid that humans are
[8:55] Speaker 1: They're going to cause some trouble, and they do in
[8:58] Speaker 1: other Babylonian myths. And Johanna vander Kay, Johanna Johanna vander Clay,
[9:05] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the super chat. I really
[9:06] Speaker 1: appreciate that says, forget all this worshiping a male deity.
[9:12] Speaker 1: Oh my, let me change the text size real quick
[9:15] Speaker 1: so we can read it. Oh maybe, Oh well, the
[9:20] Speaker 1: CRC is going to cover it, says, just cherish mother Earth.
[9:23] Speaker 1: The world would be much better place if humans had
[9:26] Speaker 1: never veered away from the respect that early societies afforded.
[9:29] Speaker 1: The spinning rock Hail Doug, we live on. Actually, you're
[9:32] Speaker 1: not wrong. I agree with you there. I think like
[9:36] Speaker 1: the modern form of Christianity is kind of like to
[9:40] Speaker 1: hell with the earth. And that's why we see so
[9:43] Speaker 1: many Republicans that are just like completely willing to watch
[9:47] Speaker 1: the world burn, you know what I mean. It's crazy
[9:49] Speaker 1: to me that they would do such a thing. It's
[9:53] Speaker 1: insanity me. We I agree, we should be taking care
[9:56] Speaker 1: of the earth. Praise Doug and thank you for the
[9:58] Speaker 1: super chat. And also Johannah again, thank you for the
[10:01] Speaker 1: supertest says nobody needs a God. All you need is
[10:04] Speaker 1: a positive attitude and if you need faith, have it
[10:07] Speaker 1: in yourself. Actually, I really love that. That's a really
[10:09] Speaker 1: good comment. Not enough people believe in themselves. Not enough.
[10:14] Speaker 1: We need to normalize people actually believing and supporting themselves,
[10:19] Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And I think actually we
[10:22] Speaker 1: Choe was able to get a connection and come back.
[10:24] Speaker 1: I see he's got three green bars in the place
[10:28] Speaker 1: of his three red bars. So I'm gonna bring in
[10:30] Speaker 1: the guests after the superchant and we'll keep the conversation going.
[10:34] Speaker 1: It says the Son of Man will appear in heaven,
[10:36] Speaker 1: and then all the tribes of Earth will mourn, and
[10:37] Speaker 1: they will see the Sun of Man coming on the
[10:39] Speaker 1: clouds of heaven with power and great glory, you know,
[10:42] Speaker 1: like a thief in the night. Yeah, I mean they're
[10:45] Speaker 1: quoting from Matthew chapter twenty four. I think also in
[10:47] Speaker 1: Mark chapter thirteen, similar quote. But yeah, I mean it's
[10:52] Speaker 1: funny that Jesus says that the Second Coming is going
[10:55] Speaker 1: to be like a thief in the night, and then
[10:56] Speaker 1: he basically says that all people are going to see it.
[10:59] Speaker 1: A bit contradictory statements there, Uh, there's there's you know,
[11:04] Speaker 1: there's a way around it if you're apologist. You know,
[11:07] Speaker 1: there's always a way around it for your apologists. But
[11:10] Speaker 1: but yeah, it is funny that you point that out
[11:12] Speaker 1: because a couple of people have noted that before, and
[11:14] Speaker 1: it's it's a really interesting problem in the text. All right,
[11:19] Speaker 1: let's grab a chow, put Choe back in the discussion.
[11:23] Speaker 1: How you doing, Bud? He came back in. His audio
[11:30] Speaker 1: is not working again. Yeah, for some reason, he keeps
[11:35] Speaker 1: not setting his Bluetooth headset when he comes in. Let's
[11:38] Speaker 1: see if that works. Hello, yep, we gotcha. All right,
[11:44] Speaker 1: how you going brother? Oh good, good, welcome back.
[11:47] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so that should be good right here, though.
[11:50] Speaker 1: I think we left off on number twenty three nineteen,
[11:54] Speaker 1: where in God.
[11:55] Speaker 2: I wasn't able to hear that laugh.
[11:57] Speaker 1: I thought that might be the case, right, right, Okay,
[12:00] Speaker 1: So you're saying that God can't change his mind, and
[12:04] Speaker 1: that comes from numbers twenty three nineteen and First Samuel
[12:06] Speaker 1: fifteen twenty nine says God is not a human being
[12:08] Speaker 1: that he should lie or immortal that he should change
[12:11] Speaker 1: his mind. Right, So I would expect based on this
[12:14] Speaker 1: passage that, like I wouldn't be able to go into
[12:17] Speaker 1: the Bible and find a bunch of instances where God
[12:20] Speaker 1: changed his mind.
[12:24] Speaker 2: That's a reasonable conclusion on that. But I mean, see,
[12:30] Speaker 2: it's hard to explain. And I'm not an apologist because
[12:33] Speaker 2: I heard you were talking about that stuff and they
[12:36] Speaker 2: do make good points, but I understand the viewpoint thinking
[12:43] Speaker 2: that you gotta destand religion with bs and not real
[12:47] Speaker 2: facts and stuff like that. So I'm trying to keep
[12:49] Speaker 2: it general and trying to I mean, I'm going to
[12:52] Speaker 2: be talking about the Bible a lot, but I'm not
[12:53] Speaker 2: going to be like trying to do any apologist stuff
[12:56] Speaker 2: because I haven't studied that. I'm fairly new to Christianity,
[12:59] Speaker 2: but I do have on faith and I just want
[13:01] Speaker 2: to try to shut up but yeah, God doesn't change.
[13:04] Speaker 2: We change as the people over time. And I think
[13:08] Speaker 2: that's what you know separates us from his original intention,
[13:12] Speaker 2: because God's intention has been the same from Generesis to Revelation,
[13:15] Speaker 2: and that's to live in eternity with us.
[13:18] Speaker 1: But does he change his mindble we're talking about, does
[13:23] Speaker 1: God change his mind? I'm going to say no, because
[13:28] Speaker 1: he always has the same intention. Now he might do things.
[13:31] Speaker 2: Differently, and I can I know what passion. You're probably
[13:34] Speaker 2: gonna bring up the famous passage of uh, who is
[13:37] Speaker 2: that Abraham, I believe or Moses? I think it was
[13:43] Speaker 2: Moses when they was going to sid to Mgamore and
[13:47] Speaker 2: God told Moses basically or not this Abraham a lot.
[13:50] Speaker 2: I'm sorry, So basically Abraham a lot went to do
[13:54] Speaker 2: different places. Of course, a lot went to sad of
[13:56] Speaker 2: Megamore and Abraham to the other side of the field.
[13:58] Speaker 2: And when God can them saw to make it more
[14:01] Speaker 2: for destruction, he told Abraham that, hey, I'm going to
[14:04] Speaker 2: destroy If I can't find fifty people worthy, I'm going
[14:08] Speaker 2: to destroy the whole city. And of course this is
[14:11] Speaker 2: the famous passage with Abraham talking to God back and
[14:14] Speaker 2: forth and asking him Oh, well, are you going to
[14:16] Speaker 2: destroy a whole city for the lack of fifty? What
[14:18] Speaker 2: if there's what if there's only forty five righteous? You know,
[14:23] Speaker 2: are you going to destroy a whole city for forty five?
[14:25] Speaker 2: And God says, well, no, Da da da da, And
[14:27] Speaker 2: then the dialogue goes back and forth until I entually
[14:29] Speaker 2: Abraham talks him down to only there being about five
[14:34] Speaker 2: righteous worthy. If there are five righteous, then he will
[14:37] Speaker 2: spare the whole city. Right, So that's a great point
[14:40] Speaker 2: that you're making about God changing his mind.
[14:42] Speaker 1: Well, I think those I don't think he changed the contexts.
[14:47] Speaker 1: So I think you're trying to make the argument for me.
[14:49] Speaker 1: But that wasn't my argument.
[14:52] Speaker 2: Okay, I mean, I lets to speak. I just thought
[14:54] Speaker 2: this where you're going.
[14:56] Speaker 1: Nope. So the reason why I asked you, are you
[14:59] Speaker 1: talking about specifical Well, I think the best instance comes
[15:01] Speaker 1: from Exodus, chapter thirty two, when he explicitly changes his
[15:09] Speaker 1: mind about wiping out the rebellious Israelights says, the Lord
[15:12] Speaker 1: changed his mind about the disaster that he planned to
[15:15] Speaker 1: bring on his people.
[15:22] Speaker 2: And God, you know, does things differently all the time,
[15:26] Speaker 2: depending on ours, depending on our you know, actions, people
[15:32] Speaker 2: don't understand that we have free will. God doesn't take
[15:34] Speaker 2: us away from that because he's a loving God, so
[15:36] Speaker 2: he's always going to allow us to make our own choice.
[15:38] Speaker 2: He's not going to force us to do anything. He's
[15:40] Speaker 2: not going to force us to believe in him, you know,
[15:42] Speaker 2: the fact that he created us. It doesn't matter if
[15:45] Speaker 2: you believe it, if I believe it, He's still going
[15:47] Speaker 2: to be God. Right, So it doesn't matter if we
[15:49] Speaker 2: believe in him too, we don't. He don't need us
[15:52] Speaker 2: to believe in him to exist. So right, but he
[15:55] Speaker 2: can change whatever he wants and he can do whatever
[15:58] Speaker 2: he wants, you know, if you remember why but you
[16:03] Speaker 2: say he doesn't change his mind, right, I'm trying to
[16:07] Speaker 2: get around to that. I know I'm going like a
[16:08] Speaker 2: little far, but I'm trying to like curve it back
[16:11] Speaker 2: towards that. So, you know, God being all powerful, right,
[16:15] Speaker 2: he has you know, definitely he has full control over
[16:19] Speaker 2: everything in creation, so he can make events happen the
[16:24] Speaker 2: way he wants them to happen. But if certain things right,
[16:27] Speaker 2: but it doesn't change the face before change his mind,
[16:35] Speaker 2: I think he changed his mind all the time.
[16:38] Speaker 1: Well, if that's the case, there are a couple of
[16:40] Speaker 1: instances where he changes his mind. So but that that
[16:42] Speaker 1: would mean then.
[16:43] Speaker 2: And I'll tell you that that number one reason, because
[16:46] Speaker 2: if he changed, he changed his mind all the time.
[16:47] Speaker 2: Because the sitter can be forgiven for his past deeds.
[16:50] Speaker 2: If he turns away and repents, that's him changing his mind.
[16:52] Speaker 2: Because that person was condemned to death, right, that's him
[16:55] Speaker 2: changing his mind on that person's conversation. That doesn't mean
[16:58] Speaker 2: that that means everybody, No one is condemned to hell
[17:01] Speaker 2: because of whatever you do. As long as you don't
[17:03] Speaker 2: openly blaspheme and knowingly blaspheme God's name to his face,
[17:09] Speaker 2: you know, then you can be forgiven. And I mean
[17:12] Speaker 2: like after you believe and that you know for a
[17:14] Speaker 2: certain that He's real. Y'all all have a chance to
[17:18] Speaker 2: be forgiven because if you even if you don't believe,
[17:20] Speaker 2: you don't understand, that's fine. You just have to try
[17:24] Speaker 2: to understand.
[17:25] Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, right, Okay? So then if
[17:27] Speaker 1: God does change his mind, why it does First Samuel
[17:31] Speaker 1: fifteen twenty nine say that the glory of Israel will
[17:34] Speaker 1: not deceive or change his mind, for he is not immortal.
[17:37] Speaker 1: That he should change his mind.
[17:42] Speaker 2: I mean, I ain't gonna lie to you. I can't
[17:43] Speaker 2: really give you a good answer for it.
[17:45] Speaker 1: That's a tough one right now.
[17:46] Speaker 2: I do know that God doesn't change, right, But I
[17:50] Speaker 2: can tell you I don't think it's contradictory in the
[17:53] Speaker 2: way you're trying to make it. I think it's just
[17:55] Speaker 2: as I say. You got to have a good understanding
[17:57] Speaker 2: of what they are trying to say. God doesn't change,
[18:00] Speaker 2: So that basically just means that he's always good. He's
[18:03] Speaker 2: always saying that God.
[18:06] Speaker 1: I didn't say that God changed. There's a difference between
[18:11] Speaker 1: changing and changing your mind. Changing your mind just means
[18:14] Speaker 1: that you you meant to do one thing, or you
[18:17] Speaker 1: thought something about one thing and then you thought differently later.
[18:20] Speaker 1: That's all that means. Now, the passage says that God
[18:23] Speaker 1: doesn't change his mind, and then it says elsewhere that
[18:25] Speaker 1: does change his mind, which means it's just a straight
[18:27] Speaker 1: up contradiction. Now, that doesn't mean that Christianity. Do you
[18:34] Speaker 1: want to read it again?
[18:36] Speaker 2: What did you read? Samuel?
[18:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, the glory of Israel will not deceive or change
[18:43] Speaker 1: his mind, for he is not a mortal that he
[18:45] Speaker 1: should change his mind, and logically speaking, the reason why
[18:50] Speaker 1: versus like this exists is because if you believe in
[18:54] Speaker 1: a God that is all knowing, then technically speaking and
[18:57] Speaker 1: all knowing, God cannot change his mind because he knows
[19:00] Speaker 1: the future.
[19:05] Speaker 2: I mean, that's trying to put God in the box.
[19:08] Speaker 1: I didn't put him in the Bible put him in
[19:10] Speaker 1: that box.
[19:13] Speaker 2: No, But I mean because if you understand God, which
[19:18] Speaker 2: we really can't. We can't never fully fathom God, but
[19:21] Speaker 2: we can't understand him enough to get the jgital. You
[19:24] Speaker 2: know his character and characteristics. So just like I said before,
[19:28] Speaker 2: like how a sayer can be forgiven for his sin
[19:32] Speaker 2: and can save himself from condemnation, God can change his
[19:35] Speaker 2: mind about that person because God made up his mind
[19:37] Speaker 2: about that person when they did sin the moment that
[19:39] Speaker 2: he's sin. But He also put GE's down here to
[19:41] Speaker 2: die for our sins. And if we believe in that
[19:43] Speaker 2: and we turn from our sin and we really try to,
[19:46] Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, do the right thing, God
[19:48] Speaker 2: will change his mind on our condemnation. So that's okay.
[19:56] Speaker 2: He said, not all knowing he is annoying.
[19:58] Speaker 1: He just doesn't force You can't change your mind around everything.
[20:06] Speaker 2: I understand what you're saying, and you're right, actually, but
[20:11] Speaker 2: I don't know why they say that. I never even
[20:13] Speaker 2: looked at that version of about It, Agnes. I've probably
[20:15] Speaker 2: read it before, but I never head onto it.
[20:17] Speaker 1: You know, it's just a plot hole in the book.
[20:20] Speaker 1: It's not a big deal. But there I think there
[20:22] Speaker 1: is some bigger fish to fry with the book. Like,
[20:26] Speaker 1: for example, you brought up Genesis chapter eighteen, where Abraham
[20:33] Speaker 1: basically tries to talk y'all way out of you know,
[20:36] Speaker 1: destroying all of the wicked and sodom, and they the
[20:40] Speaker 1: general idea is that, like, hey, you know, like God
[20:44] Speaker 1: wouldn't wipe out the righteous alongside of the wicked, right.
[20:48] Speaker 1: That seems like that'd be a terrible thing to do, right,
[20:52] Speaker 1: But I don't. I don't think that that's a problem
[20:55] Speaker 1: for God. I think that's a problem for Abraham because
[20:58] Speaker 1: like God does it all the time. We won't want
[21:01] Speaker 1: to read a passage with me and see about that.
[21:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, please, Well.
[21:09] Speaker 1: Yeah, so in Second Samuel twenty four, the wicked just
[21:16] Speaker 1: ripe wiping people out indiscriminately, right, And and we could
[21:21] Speaker 1: also point to the Egyptian babies that were killed God
[21:24] Speaker 1: wiped out a bunch of Egyptian babies. They're just they
[21:28] Speaker 1: didn't do anything wrong. So I mean obviously he wripes,
[21:33] Speaker 1: wipes out the right a little bit, the egypt the
[21:38] Speaker 1: Egyptian babies. Yeah.
[21:42] Speaker 2: So in the born of the Egyptian house.
[21:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, so in the tenth plague, God wiped out the
[21:49] Speaker 1: firstborn of all of Egypt. You have exus Uh, chapter
[21:53] Speaker 1: is like ten through twelve at times to thirteen. So
[21:58] Speaker 1: a number of those for born would have been children,
[22:03] Speaker 1: which means like, do you think that children, like even
[22:06] Speaker 1: like newborn babies are guilty of something?
[22:11] Speaker 2: Definitely not.
[22:13] Speaker 1: But so they think misjudged God parents.
[22:20] Speaker 2: No, definitely not. I can understand why you can say that.
[22:24] Speaker 2: But God told he gave warning to everybody. He told,
[22:29] Speaker 2: you know, basically like Moses to tell Moses and Aaron
[22:32] Speaker 2: to tell all the people in Egypt. If you believe
[22:35] Speaker 2: my God is going to do this. You know what
[22:37] Speaker 2: I'm saying, Well, he told him that God is going
[22:39] Speaker 2: to do it. Like it don't matter. Like I said earlier,
[22:41] Speaker 2: it doesn't matter if you believe God or not. You
[22:43] Speaker 2: don't need God, don't need us to believe in Him
[22:45] Speaker 2: to exist. He already exists on his own. Maga and
[22:49] Speaker 2: Moses to tell or you know what I'm saying. He
[22:51] Speaker 2: gave a warning out, some way to let the people
[22:54] Speaker 2: know that this was coming, and he gave them a
[22:58] Speaker 2: way out. He gave the righteous, the truly righteous that
[23:01] Speaker 2: believed in him, a way to protect this solf they
[23:05] Speaker 2: loved ones from that, and all they had to do
[23:08] Speaker 2: was sacrifice a goat or a ram or whatever they
[23:12] Speaker 2: do back then, and put the blood on the doorpost
[23:14] Speaker 2: so that the angel of Death would know what they did.
[23:18] Speaker 1: They didn't have that instruction that was only for the Hebrews.
[23:22] Speaker 3: No, they did.
[23:23] Speaker 2: Everyone had that instruction.
[23:24] Speaker 1: Oh no, that's not the ones.
[23:25] Speaker 2: They didn't follow that instruction.
[23:27] Speaker 1: That's not that's not in the book.
[23:31] Speaker 2: What's not in the book that he didn't give them instruction?
[23:34] Speaker 1: Yep, there's no instruction whatsoever where Moses told the Egyptians
[23:39] Speaker 1: to paint blood over their doorpost.
[23:42] Speaker 2: What are you sure they're reading the same accounts?
[23:45] Speaker 1: Yep?
[23:47] Speaker 2: Let mean and what chapter you said it was? Sorry,
[23:52] Speaker 2: So I'm new.
[23:54] Speaker 1: Exodus ten through thirteen should have the account.
[24:03] Speaker 2: Leading about them. No, ten through thirteen.
[24:07] Speaker 1: So the last plague is at the end of chapter ten,
[24:12] Speaker 1: and then the beginning of the next plague is access
[24:17] Speaker 1: eleven one.
[24:19] Speaker 2: Right eleven one, which says in my you know New
[24:23] Speaker 2: King James version, it reads, and the Lord said to Moses,
[24:26] Speaker 2: I would bring one more plague on Pharaoh Egypt, after
[24:28] Speaker 2: where he would let you go from here, and he
[24:30] Speaker 2: lets you go your shir die verse to speak now
[24:33] Speaker 2: and the hearing of the people, speak now in the
[24:35] Speaker 2: hearing of the people. That's funny, He's right in the
[24:37] Speaker 2: second verse. This is God talking to Moses. Speak now
[24:42] Speaker 2: in the hearing of the people. And let every man
[24:45] Speaker 2: ask from his neighbor, and every woman from her neighbor
[24:48] Speaker 2: articles of silver and of gold.
[24:51] Speaker 1: And who are the people? It's the elders of Israel.
[24:58] Speaker 2: You're talking about the people that's with Moses. Yeah, not
[25:01] Speaker 2: the captives. That's forfars holding.
[25:05] Speaker 1: Well, I mean, theoretically, according to the story, the Israelites
[25:08] Speaker 1: are captives, although I think that that's kind of a
[25:11] Speaker 1: very loose way to describe their state of being.
[25:18] Speaker 2: But so the.
[25:21] Speaker 1: So, the warning was for the Israelites to paint the
[25:25] Speaker 1: blood over their doorposts, not to the Egyptians.
[25:30] Speaker 2: It says in the Hearing of the people, God said
[25:33] Speaker 2: that every man as from his neighbor, and every woman
[25:36] Speaker 2: from her neighbors. So that would entitle that everyone knew.
[25:39] Speaker 1: No, only the Hebrews, because if you keep reading in
[25:41] Speaker 1: the story, they ask these things from their Egyptian neighbors,
[25:46] Speaker 1: and then their Egyptian neighbors end up giving it to
[25:48] Speaker 1: them when they leave. So he's instructing the Hebrews to
[25:53] Speaker 1: ask for things from their Egyptian neighbors because he says
[25:56] Speaker 1: that I will predispose the Egyptians to be favorable to you. Yeah,
[26:05] Speaker 1: that's why in verse eight it says, then all of
[26:08] Speaker 1: these officials of yours shall come down to me and
[26:11] Speaker 1: bow low to me, saying leave us. Oh, sorry, I
[26:15] Speaker 1: went too far. One second, there we go. Verse four,
[26:21] Speaker 1: Moses said, thus, stay with the Lord. About midnight, I
[26:23] Speaker 1: will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn of the land of
[26:25] Speaker 1: Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sits
[26:28] Speaker 1: on the throne, to the firstborn of the female slave
[26:30] Speaker 1: who is behind the handmill, to the firstborn of the livestock.
[26:33] Speaker 1: Then there will be a loud cry throughout the whole
[26:35] Speaker 1: land of Egypt, such as has never or will ever
[26:39] Speaker 1: be again. But not a dog shall growl of any
[26:41] Speaker 1: of the Israelites, not at people, at the animals, so
[26:44] Speaker 1: that you may know that the Lord makes a distinction
[26:47] Speaker 1: between Israel and Egypt. Then all the officials of yours,
[26:50] Speaker 1: so he's giving this part to the Pharaoh, then all
[26:53] Speaker 1: the officials of yours shall come down to me bowing
[26:56] Speaker 1: low is saying.
[26:56] Speaker 4: Leave us.
[26:58] Speaker 1: So this verse four four through eight, he's talking to Pharaoh.
[27:05] Speaker 1: Actually he's not even talking to Pharaoh. He's getting instructions
[27:07] Speaker 1: on what to say to Pharaoh.
[27:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, now I a should see what you're talking about.
[27:14] Speaker 2: It's in chapter twelve, verse three, God yeah telling Moses
[27:19] Speaker 2: speak to all the congregation of Israel, saying and he's
[27:22] Speaker 2: talking about the pastors and basically saying that what I
[27:25] Speaker 2: just said to let people know that the you know,
[27:30] Speaker 2: destruction is coming to the first going to every house.
[27:32] Speaker 1: But let's let's imagine. Let's imagine though for a second,
[27:35] Speaker 1: even if God did, even if God warned all the Egyptians, well,
[27:39] Speaker 1: I still don't think that warrants killing babies.
[27:44] Speaker 2: No, it doesn't. I don't know. I mean, I'm not God,
[27:48] Speaker 2: so I can't say I know what I believe is
[27:51] Speaker 2: right or wrong. And I know we all feel that
[27:52] Speaker 2: that is wrong. Of course, who wouldn't right, because we
[27:56] Speaker 2: human and we have compassion naturally, And I just know
[28:04] Speaker 2: that not all of them. I don't even know if
[28:08] Speaker 2: babies were killed. I'm pretty sure that I don't know,
[28:11] Speaker 2: but I just know that that's what, you know, that's
[28:14] Speaker 2: what God said had to happen for the signs to
[28:19] Speaker 2: prove that, you know what I'm saying, These families and stuff,
[28:22] Speaker 2: and that's I think it goes deeper we were in
[28:24] Speaker 2: that time. But I do know that the people were
[28:27] Speaker 2: very rebellious against God, like in these you know, Babylons
[28:30] Speaker 2: and Egypts, like a lot of people were, you know,
[28:34] Speaker 2: praising God and stuff like that. So it really falls
[28:37] Speaker 2: to the parents that weren't believing, you know what I'm
[28:40] Speaker 2: saying at that time. That's why they ended up getting punished,
[28:43] Speaker 2: because they chose not to believe in the true God.
[28:48] Speaker 2: But I mean, I understand it still sounds harsh, though
[28:51] Speaker 2: I'm not saying that it's not. I definitely sympathize with
[28:54] Speaker 2: what you're saying, but I can't I'll be honest, I
[28:57] Speaker 2: don't have a clear you know, like rebuttal for that,
[29:01] Speaker 2: like I'm not trying to defend the God no matter what. Like,
[29:05] Speaker 2: I'm trying to learn as much as you. Right, we
[29:09] Speaker 2: have faith that the Bible is true.
[29:11] Speaker 1: Though, yeah, I think we're all learning. If I was
[29:14] Speaker 1: gonna be quite honest, I know it. You know, it
[29:19] Speaker 1: feels like sometimes like at some point you'll be able
[29:22] Speaker 1: to stop learning, But the reality is you never get
[29:24] Speaker 1: to stop learning. So listen, read read the passage with
[29:29] Speaker 1: me real quick, if you don't mind. This is in
[29:31] Speaker 1: a Second Samuel chapter twelve, and we're gonna go down
[29:35] Speaker 1: to verse eleven. In Second Samuel twelve, David is going
[29:38] Speaker 1: to be punished for what he did with Bathsheba. So
[29:46] Speaker 1: you probably remember the story of David and Bathsheba, right
[29:50] Speaker 1: of course.
[29:50] Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was that was that was crazy. Yeah, David,
[29:55] Speaker 2: he did get punished for that.
[29:57] Speaker 1: Well, there's right, there's two punishment, and one falls on
[30:02] Speaker 1: the son of David. Right, the son of David has
[30:04] Speaker 1: made six or seven days and he does. Now the
[30:06] Speaker 1: second punishment I think is the more egregious punishment, and
[30:10] Speaker 1: I think a lot of people don't remember it. But
[30:14] Speaker 1: God pronounces, He says, thus saith the Lord, I will
[30:17] Speaker 1: raise up trouble against you from within your own house,
[30:20] Speaker 1: and I will take your wives before your eyes and
[30:22] Speaker 1: give them to your neighbor. And he will lie with
[30:24] Speaker 1: your wives in broad daylight. For you did it secretly,
[30:26] Speaker 1: but I would do this thing before all Israel in
[30:29] Speaker 1: broad daylight. So the punishment that he's saying he's going
[30:32] Speaker 1: to send down is that ten of David's wives are
[30:37] Speaker 1: going to get non consensually ravished in public. Yeah, publicly. Yeah,
[30:48] Speaker 1: it's going to be a shameful event.
[30:50] Speaker 2: Where is that at You said it was in a
[30:52] Speaker 2: Vegas Samuel twelve verse.
[30:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, second Samuel twelve eleven.
[31:00] Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a whole lot of raise up adversity against
[31:03] Speaker 5: you for your own house. And I will take your
[31:05] Speaker 5: wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor.
[31:08] Speaker 5: And he said, a lie with your wives on the
[31:10] Speaker 5: side of this son. But you didn't see people all
[31:13] Speaker 5: do this thing before all issues, before the son. Yeah,
[31:19] Speaker 5: So what's your question about that? He's saying that's not
[31:22] Speaker 5: right either.
[31:23] Speaker 1: Well, what I'm saying is like we have this idea
[31:26] Speaker 1: of God that we've created in our head, like he's
[31:28] Speaker 1: all loving and he's kind and whatnot. But really, like
[31:32] Speaker 1: when I read the book. I see like a vengeful,
[31:34] Speaker 1: bloodthirsty maniac.
[31:39] Speaker 2: Understood, and I get that plenty, and there's plenty of
[31:42] Speaker 2: The Old Testament is definitely full of it. You know.
[31:47] Speaker 2: The New Testament is mostly full of humans being that
[31:49] Speaker 2: way towards each other. But the Old Testament definitely has
[31:52] Speaker 2: a plenty of examples of God dishing out very harsh
[31:56] Speaker 2: judgments and you know, very a cruel uh you know,
[32:03] Speaker 2: punishment like you said, so, I think I think we
[32:06] Speaker 2: also have to look at the context of everything too.
[32:09] Speaker 2: You got to keep it all logical. If you are
[32:11] Speaker 2: believing like like He's just for you know what I'm
[32:13] Speaker 2: saying the sake of the argument, we all believe that
[32:15] Speaker 2: the bibble is real with a saying is real, then
[32:18] Speaker 2: I think we have to also keep in mind the context,
[32:21] Speaker 2: right that God was actually in this time. He was
[32:25] Speaker 2: speaking to us, like no doubt about it, like he
[32:28] Speaker 2: was actually talking to people. People could actually see him
[32:31] Speaker 2: moving and working in the world at this time. And
[32:35] Speaker 2: you know that really warrants like why are you still
[32:38] Speaker 2: choosing to disobey or disbelieve me when I'm showing myself,
[32:41] Speaker 2: I'm revealing myself to you, and you still choose to
[32:44] Speaker 2: go against and disobey. That's really why I feel like
[32:48] Speaker 2: these punishments he has because God. You know, I can't
[32:51] Speaker 2: tell God that he wrong. You know what I'm saying.
[32:54] Speaker 2: Me personally, I didn't create myself. God created me, and however,
[32:58] Speaker 2: He created me to be whatever he told me to be,
[33:00] Speaker 2: That's what I'm supposed to be. You know what I'm saying.
[33:03] Speaker 2: I might not even understand my purpose for what He
[33:05] Speaker 2: created me to do, yet, but you know, one day,
[33:07] Speaker 2: hopefully I will and I'll be able to feel it.
[33:09] Speaker 2: But right now, I just know that I have to
[33:12] Speaker 2: follow the book and understand that He is going to
[33:15] Speaker 2: always be right because He's he knows more than me.
[33:18] Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, I don't know more than
[33:20] Speaker 2: the old knowing God.
[33:21] Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question. Do you know anything
[33:24] Speaker 1: about Islam?
[33:26] Speaker 2: Not much? I will lie.
[33:28] Speaker 6: So.
[33:29] Speaker 1: In Islam they're generally okay with child marriage because the
[33:35] Speaker 1: Prophet married Ayisha when she was six and consummated the
[33:38] Speaker 1: marriage at age nine, and that's why child marriage is
[33:42] Speaker 1: so common in Islam. Would you say that that's wrong?
[33:48] Speaker 2: Of course?
[33:49] Speaker 1: Why?
[33:51] Speaker 2: Because I mean a child is as a child.
[33:54] Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying it doesn't matter, right, But
[33:57] Speaker 1: what's wrong about it?
[34:00] Speaker 2: I mean, is it consensual? I mean I don't even
[34:04] Speaker 2: think it can be.
[34:06] Speaker 1: I mean that they do believe in arranged marriage, and
[34:11] Speaker 1: they do also believe in consensual marriage.
[34:14] Speaker 2: But it's different from child marriage. You said child marriage.
[34:20] Speaker 1: Right, But what what did you use to come to
[34:23] Speaker 1: the conclusion that it's not good to marry a child?
[34:28] Speaker 2: I mean, I guess feeling honestly.
[34:31] Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, you used your own subjective thinking capability and
[34:35] Speaker 1: you came to the conclusion that it wasn't a good thing.
[34:38] Speaker 1: I'm suggesting, like the same rational thought that you're applying
[34:42] Speaker 1: to the God of Islam, I think you should apply
[34:46] Speaker 1: the same thing to the God of the Bible. I
[34:48] Speaker 1: don't think that you should give the God of the
[34:50] Speaker 1: Bible a pass.
[34:54] Speaker 2: And I understand what you're saying. I will take that
[34:59] Speaker 2: into consider it, sure, But I have already already tested
[35:02] Speaker 2: my God, you know. And I feel like he came
[35:06] Speaker 2: through for me, like showing me his part, because I
[35:11] Speaker 2: literally like it was a situation where somebody did something
[35:14] Speaker 2: to me and I wanted to react in a normal
[35:16] Speaker 2: way with violence, right, And I was reading the Bible
[35:20] Speaker 2: heavy at this time was when I was in prison,
[35:22] Speaker 2: and I was like, God, I want to do things differently.
[35:26] Speaker 2: You say not to be used violence, you say not
[35:28] Speaker 2: to do these things right, and I thought that was wrong.
[35:31] Speaker 2: I'm like, for I too, for too, like you said
[35:34] Speaker 2: in the Old Testament, right, So like why did you
[35:35] Speaker 2: change that? You know? Or why did you straight away
[35:38] Speaker 2: from that? But that wasn't God's you know what I'm saying, commandment.
[35:43] Speaker 2: He did that for you know what I'm saying, other reasons,
[35:45] Speaker 2: but basically telling us when Jesus came and changed us,
[35:49] Speaker 2: he made you know what I'm saying, he could perfect
[35:51] Speaker 2: us with the Holy Spirit. Now. So I was like, God,
[35:54] Speaker 2: I'm asking you to handle this situation and see how
[35:56] Speaker 2: you can. You know what I'm saying. If you don't
[35:59] Speaker 2: come and intervene some type way, safe form or fashion,
[36:01] Speaker 2: then it's over with. Like I'm never going to be
[36:03] Speaker 2: able to trust you, you know what I'm saying. So
[36:06] Speaker 2: I tested guy this way, and honestly, you might think
[36:10] Speaker 2: it was coincidence and stuff like that, but honestly, I
[36:12] Speaker 2: don't believe in coincidentions anymore. Because that same week, whatever
[36:18] Speaker 2: the thing that the dude stole from me. He ended
[36:21] Speaker 2: up getting caught with andyet, he got punished, he got
[36:25] Speaker 2: sent out to the whole, and got ended up getting
[36:27] Speaker 2: shipped to a whole another prison right and I actually
[36:31] Speaker 2: ended up going to a TC and staying at the TC.
[36:36] Speaker 1: So then God doesn't heal all like the babies with
[36:40] Speaker 1: boat and cancer were like their mothers like desperately praying
[36:43] Speaker 1: day and night for their child to survive.
[36:46] Speaker 2: I mean, God doesn't answer every prayer for them, not
[36:49] Speaker 2: the way that we expect him to.
[36:51] Speaker 1: But my suggestion is he doesn't answer ninety nine percent
[36:55] Speaker 1: of prayers, like the one he doesn't answer seemed like
[36:58] Speaker 1: super coincidental, like they could just be not answered prayer.
[37:02] Speaker 1: And the ones that, like you think he really would
[37:04] Speaker 1: want to answer, like ending child suffering from a needless
[37:08] Speaker 1: disease that theoretically he caused, he's like completely silent. Like
[37:13] Speaker 1: the only miracles God ever does are things that could
[37:17] Speaker 1: just be marked off as coincidence.
[37:21] Speaker 2: I mean, you'll never be able to, you know, take
[37:25] Speaker 2: the Bible's word or anything if you're not willing to
[37:29] Speaker 2: believe it or try it. And I'm not judging you
[37:31] Speaker 2: for that.
[37:32] Speaker 1: But I was a Christian for twenty years.
[37:36] Speaker 2: Yeah, what made you? What made you fall away the
[37:39] Speaker 2: Bible just like not believe it anymore?
[37:42] Speaker 1: Well, just it just turned out the Bible wasn't true,
[37:44] Speaker 1: Like it says a bunch of stuff that's not true.
[37:46] Speaker 1: It gets history wrong. Jesus and I think the biggest
[37:50] Speaker 1: problem is that Jesus didn't fulfill even one Messianic prophecy.
[37:54] Speaker 1: And if Jesus didn't fulfill the Messianic prophecies, that means
[37:57] Speaker 1: he's not the Messiah, which means you can throw that
[37:59] Speaker 1: whole new test meant right out the window.
[38:02] Speaker 2: How did he's the prophecy?
[38:04] Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you a question. What prophecy do
[38:06] Speaker 1: you think he did fulfillm I failed all of him.
[38:09] Speaker 1: Can you name one rot to the town? Yeah, he
[38:13] Speaker 1: bore our stripes for our sins. Well, that's not a
[38:16] Speaker 1: prophecy about the Messiah at all. Actually, you started reciting
[38:21] Speaker 1: Matthew twenty one about coming into town on a donkey.
[38:24] Speaker 2: Is that where you're going? I mean yeah, because I
[38:29] Speaker 2: mean it said that he was riding to the to
[38:32] Speaker 2: Israel on a donkey. That's a that's a prophecy as
[38:35] Speaker 2: smaller in significant as it is. But I mean the
[38:37] Speaker 2: smaller ones were fulfilled in for too.
[38:40] Speaker 1: I don't think that. I don't think it was because
[38:43] Speaker 1: that quotation from zach Ryan nine doesn't say that, like
[38:47] Speaker 1: there's this gonna be a guy riding a donkey. It
[38:50] Speaker 1: says he's going to do stuff too, right, says rejoice greatly,
[38:54] Speaker 1: old daughter's ion. Shout aloud, old daughter Jerusalem. See your
[38:58] Speaker 1: king comes to you, triumphant and victorious. Is he humble
[39:02] Speaker 1: and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the full
[39:05] Speaker 1: of a donkey. He will cut off the chariot from
[39:07] Speaker 1: Ephriam and the war horse from Jerusalem, and the battle
[39:11] Speaker 1: bow shall be cut off, and he shall command peace
[39:14] Speaker 1: to the nations. So this is like an actual like
[39:17] Speaker 1: victorious king who like defeats Israel's enemy.
[39:22] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's talking about.
[39:24] Speaker 1: Oh well then he didn't fulfill it.
[39:25] Speaker 2: Then, yeah, he's already fulfilled. The first part of now
[39:30] Speaker 2: was like by riding that's just one. I wrote a
[39:38] Speaker 2: donkey by the Messiah. That's just one. There are millions
[39:45] Speaker 2: of prophecies if you really want to look into the
[39:48] Speaker 2: that's what I'm saying.
[39:49] Speaker 1: There's well, there's only about twenty three of them listed
[39:53] Speaker 1: in the Gospels and he didn't fulfill a single one.
[39:59] Speaker 2: He's saying on the twenty three prophecies that Jesus was
[40:03] Speaker 2: supposed to fulfil.
[40:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, according to the Gospel authors, Matthew's got like twenty
[40:08] Speaker 1: and John actually it might be closer to like twenty nine.
[40:13] Speaker 1: John's got about six or seven of them, and then
[40:16] Speaker 1: Matthew has got like nearly twenty of them, and he
[40:20] Speaker 1: just didn't fulfill any of them. And I know that
[40:23] Speaker 1: might sound crazy to you, but let me give you
[40:25] Speaker 1: an example of something. I want you to turn to Josea,
[40:29] Speaker 1: chapter eleven. Do you have your Bible?
[40:31] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[40:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, go to chapter eleven, yeah, all right, And then
[40:41] Speaker 1: it says when Israel was a child that loved him
[40:43] Speaker 1: and out of Egypt, I called my son. The more
[40:45] Speaker 1: I called them, the more they went for me. And
[40:47] Speaker 1: they kept sacrificing to the bales and offering in some titles.
[40:51] Speaker 1: What moment in history do you think that could be
[40:53] Speaker 1: referring to? So it has to be you know BC
[41:02] Speaker 1: before class right, right, was a child? Does this sound
[41:08] Speaker 1: like something you've heard about before when God called people
[41:11] Speaker 1: out of Egypt?
[41:14] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[41:15] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's about the Exodus, right, because in
[41:18] Speaker 1: Exodus four twenty two. He says that Israel is my
[41:20] Speaker 1: firstborn son, and he's going to deliver them from Egypt.
[41:23] Speaker 1: That's why in Joseia it says, when Israel was a child,
[41:26] Speaker 1: I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.
[41:29] Speaker 1: So now this is about something happening in the past, right.
[41:36] Speaker 2: Talking about this specific passage.
[41:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, no, oh, it interesting.
[41:45] Speaker 2: Jesus came out of Egypt as well. He remember when
[41:48] Speaker 2: the was pragmo and they had to go.
[41:51] Speaker 1: I know this, Matthew, Chapter two, verses fourteen through sixteen.
[41:54] Speaker 1: I'm aware, but try to stay focused on Hosea. Joseiah
[41:58] Speaker 1: doesn't mention anything about the future, does see.
[42:03] Speaker 2: I'm not familiar with those not gonna lie right.
[42:07] Speaker 1: Well, we're reading Hosea eleven and he says, when Israel
[42:11] Speaker 1: was a child, I loved him. That's in the past.
[42:17] Speaker 2: I mean, he's speaking past tense, but there's a lot
[42:19] Speaker 2: of prophetic lodge.
[42:22] Speaker 1: I disagree. It's not prophetic at all. It's history. He's
[42:27] Speaker 1: telling about the past events. He says, when Israel was
[42:29] Speaker 1: a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I
[42:32] Speaker 1: called my son. And the more that I called them,
[42:34] Speaker 1: the more they went from me. They kept sacrificing to
[42:37] Speaker 1: the bales and offering intense idols. That's what happened. After
[42:40] Speaker 1: the Exodus. They immediately made a golden calf. Yeah, so
[42:45] Speaker 1: this is not a prophecy. This is a retelling of
[42:47] Speaker 1: the Exodus.
[42:52] Speaker 2: It can't be both.
[42:54] Speaker 1: No. Wow, why would it be both just because you
[42:59] Speaker 1: wanted to be?
[43:02] Speaker 2: No, because that's mean that's what he's talking about.
[43:05] Speaker 1: Let's talk about the Exodus.
[43:09] Speaker 2: The Exodus, Yes, had happened, and that's what he's talking about.
[43:12] Speaker 2: But also that refers to that can refer to Jesus
[43:16] Speaker 2: as well.
[43:17] Speaker 1: Why why would anyone think that.
[43:22] Speaker 2: Because he had to flee Joseph and Mary had to
[43:25] Speaker 2: flee from Pharaoh again out of Egypt.
[43:28] Speaker 1: Because jose didn't say anything about the Messiah having to
[43:32] Speaker 1: flee and go to Egypt at all.
[43:35] Speaker 2: He said it right there. He didn't, well, I'm not really.
[43:40] Speaker 1: He's talking about stuffing happening in the past.
[43:43] Speaker 2: Right, But I didn't say, well, you're saying this was
[43:47] Speaker 2: supposed to be a prophecy.
[43:48] Speaker 1: What I'm saying is that it's simply not a prophecy,
[43:52] Speaker 1: and that Matthew is making stuff up. He knows that
[43:56] Speaker 1: he has to justify Jesus being the Jewish Messiah. So
[43:59] Speaker 1: he's going back into the Hebrew scriptures and just finding
[44:03] Speaker 1: anything that he can say sounds like Jesus. This is
[44:07] Speaker 1: not even a prophecy, This is just a retelling of
[44:09] Speaker 1: the Exodus, but it sounds like something Jesus did. So
[44:12] Speaker 1: he just says, oh, it's actually a secret prophecy. But like,
[44:16] Speaker 1: that's garbage. I could do that for myself. I can
[44:18] Speaker 1: go into the Old Testament and find lots of stuff
[44:20] Speaker 1: that sounds like something in my life and say, oh,
[44:22] Speaker 1: it's actually a prophecy about me. Prophecy has to have
[44:26] Speaker 1: like a clear like pattern of speech. It has to
[44:30] Speaker 1: predict something in the future that's going to happen, like
[44:33] Speaker 1: Deuteronomy eighteen tells you, you know, if a prophet is
[44:37] Speaker 1: speaking presumption, I can't say the word presumptuously if the
[44:42] Speaker 1: thing that they tell you doesn't come true, which means
[44:46] Speaker 1: it has to actually be a clear piece of information
[44:49] Speaker 1: for the future that's testable. You can't just talk about
[44:52] Speaker 1: stuffing that happened in the past and then hope that
[44:56] Speaker 1: somebody thinks that you're doing a double entendre. That does
[45:00] Speaker 1: it makes sense.
[45:02] Speaker 2: I mean, I'll get you what you're saying, but I mean,
[45:06] Speaker 2: when it really did happen, right, can that really be
[45:11] Speaker 2: saying that it's not a prophecy, because if they wrote
[45:14] Speaker 2: this before, if they wrote this before Jesus was born
[45:18] Speaker 2: and Jesus ended up, that actually been able to be
[45:21] Speaker 2: applied to Jesus.
[45:24] Speaker 1: It can't. It's about the past though it doesn't. There's
[45:31] Speaker 1: not one word in two verses about the future.
[45:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, So why.
[45:41] Speaker 1: Would anyone reading this, like, why would a good Jew
[45:43] Speaker 1: in the first century reading this look at that passage
[45:46] Speaker 1: and think that it's prophetic?
[45:50] Speaker 2: I don't know. I didn't tell you that. I didn't
[45:51] Speaker 2: know that was supposed to be a prophetic portion of scripture, honestly.
[45:58] Speaker 1: Right, And now the problem I have is all of
[46:00] Speaker 1: the prophecies in the Gospels about Jesus read just like this.
[46:05] Speaker 1: They're going back to text. Most of them aren't even prophecies,
[46:08] Speaker 1: and they're just calling it a prophecy when it's not.
[46:12] Speaker 1: Sometimes they do go to actual prophecies, but the prophecy
[46:15] Speaker 1: is about something completely different. So, for example, is quoted
[46:20] Speaker 1: in Matthew chapter two, verse eighteen, when Herod has the
[46:24] Speaker 1: babies killed in and around Bethlehem aged two and below,
[46:28] Speaker 1: that this was to fulfill what was written by the
[46:30] Speaker 1: prophet Jeremiah. But when you go to Jeremiah thirty one, Yeah,
[46:36] Speaker 1: Jeremiah thirty one, fifteen and sixteen, where that quote comes from,
[46:40] Speaker 1: Jeremiah is not talking about anything happening at the time
[46:42] Speaker 1: of the Messiah. He's talking about the Israelites coming back
[46:45] Speaker 1: from Babylonian captivity.
[46:50] Speaker 2: Said, that's Jeremiah thirty one.
[46:52] Speaker 1: What, Yeah, go to Jeremiah thirty one, fifteen and sixteen.
[47:02] Speaker 1: So the quotation starts in fifteen yeah, and it says,
[47:09] Speaker 1: thus sayeth the Lord. A voice is heard in rama,
[47:11] Speaker 1: lamentation and bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for her children.
[47:15] Speaker 1: She refuses to be comforted for her children because they
[47:18] Speaker 1: are no more. Thus sayeth the Lord, keep your voice
[47:21] Speaker 1: from weeping and your eyes from tears. For there is
[47:23] Speaker 1: a reward for your work, says the Lord. They shall
[47:26] Speaker 1: come back from the land of the enemy. There is
[47:29] Speaker 1: hope for your futures, says the Lord. Your children shall
[47:31] Speaker 1: come back to their own country. So the prophecy is
[47:35] Speaker 1: actually pretty clear. It's just a prophecy about how the
[47:38] Speaker 1: Israelites are going to come back from captivity, which was
[47:41] Speaker 1: already prophesied in chapter twenty five. Jeremiah says they'll come
[47:44] Speaker 1: back after a seventy year a seventy year exile. But
[47:53] Speaker 1: Matthew needs to find something in the Old Testament to
[47:58] Speaker 1: tie Jesus's life to and he's like, oh, there's something
[48:01] Speaker 1: about children being killed. Let's just say this is about
[48:05] Speaker 1: what happened to Bethlee him. But this hasn't nothing to
[48:07] Speaker 1: do with the Beth for him.
[48:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, I hate what was just saying. And I mean
[48:14] Speaker 2: I never really looked into that stuff, like too deeply.
[48:17] Speaker 2: I looked into certain like I read certain books on
[48:19] Speaker 2: Jesus and his problem season and stuff that they say
[48:22] Speaker 2: he could feel and stuff like that. I believe he
[48:23] Speaker 2: didn't feel and do all that stuff. But I mean,
[48:27] Speaker 2: the Bible is like a book that you know, it's
[48:33] Speaker 2: hard to like prove or disprove, I feel like because
[48:37] Speaker 2: a lot of these things have multiple different interpretations of
[48:41] Speaker 2: meaning and stuff like that, and that's why I feel
[48:42] Speaker 2: like a lot of people get it confused, Like you
[48:46] Speaker 2: gotta really study it to catch everything. But yeah, I
[48:54] Speaker 2: like the points you're making. I like the points you're making,
[48:56] Speaker 2: and I respect the fact that you were a Christian
[48:58] Speaker 2: for twenty years and taking that into account as well.
[49:02] Speaker 2: And what did you say, You said the Bible threw
[49:06] Speaker 2: you off from the religion.
[49:07] Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I believe Yeah. I mean, the Bible just
[49:11] Speaker 1: says things that are clearly untrue, and at some point
[49:14] Speaker 1: you have to stop making excuses for it and just
[49:16] Speaker 1: admit that the Bible is not true.
[49:20] Speaker 2: I don't believe that because I can't make any good
[49:23] Speaker 2: arguments for the Bible honestly. But I mean, I'll just
[49:26] Speaker 2: I'll just with this, I'll just say that the Bible
[49:29] Speaker 2: for me, I feel like if you you know, you
[49:32] Speaker 2: get out the Bible, what you what you want, like,
[49:34] Speaker 2: if you want to find the inconsistencies, you want to
[49:37] Speaker 2: find the little mistakes that you want to point out.
[49:39] Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, With you know, human logical
[49:42] Speaker 2: eraror and stuff like that, there's a lot of wrong
[49:44] Speaker 2: with the Bible, Yeah, because it goes against all natural
[49:47] Speaker 2: logic and understanding that we have been groomed the whole
[49:51] Speaker 2: life to you know what I'm saying, believe in, trust in,
[49:54] Speaker 2: But what the Bible is telling you what to do
[49:56] Speaker 2: is something completely opposite and different, and it's believing the
[50:00] Speaker 2: God that you can't see, can't you know, hear, or
[50:04] Speaker 2: you know, have any actual proof of in his life,
[50:08] Speaker 2: and just believe on faith that such a God exists.
[50:12] Speaker 2: So I'll just I'll just say that, no, I cannot
[50:16] Speaker 2: prove that God exists. I don't think no one can
[50:19] Speaker 2: except God. He has to reveal himself to you. So
[50:23] Speaker 2: I'll just say that I pray that you know what
[50:26] Speaker 2: I'm saying, you and everyone that's watching. I feel like,
[50:29] Speaker 2: if you really want to find God and know who
[50:31] Speaker 2: he is, just you know, read, do your own research,
[50:35] Speaker 2: or better yet, talk to God. You know what I'm
[50:37] Speaker 2: saying his name? Do you think I happen to just
[50:40] Speaker 2: ask him. I'm not saying you haven't. I understand that
[50:45] Speaker 2: you feel off. I'm not trying to like disrespect you
[50:48] Speaker 2: or push you off or nothing like that. I'm just saying, like,
[50:51] Speaker 2: I understand that it can be confusing, and I understand
[50:54] Speaker 2: that the Bible is very like trust me, it is.
[51:01] Speaker 2: If he's talking about the God of the universe, is
[51:04] Speaker 2: going to have to be difficult that I don't think
[51:05] Speaker 2: that's an unfathomable concept that God created a whole universe.
[51:11] Speaker 2: He has the knowledge to create all these things, to
[51:14] Speaker 2: put all these things in place. God, Then what do
[51:17] Speaker 2: you so, what do you think we came from? Then?
[51:20] Speaker 1: Well, I think the universe. I don't think the universe
[51:22] Speaker 1: is eternal. All matters, space and time is pre existed forever, so.
[51:29] Speaker 2: That the universe itself is your God. Pretty much.
[51:32] Speaker 1: No, there's no God.
[51:35] Speaker 2: There's no God. So where did everything come from?
[51:38] Speaker 1: It didn't come from anywhere all. That's what that means,
[51:43] Speaker 1: it already existed. What's the proof of that the universe exists?
[51:48] Speaker 1: Do you deny that the universe exists?
[51:52] Speaker 2: If the universe existing, God miss exist Because if the
[51:55] Speaker 2: universal law, there's a physical there's a physics law. You
[51:58] Speaker 2: have to go to the Bible for that. The third
[52:01] Speaker 2: law of physics is what every action has an equal
[52:03] Speaker 2: opposite reaction.
[52:04] Speaker 1: Right, No, that's not the third law of physics. No,
[52:08] Speaker 1: that's what is it? That's a law physics.
[52:11] Speaker 2: There's no such thing as that.
[52:14] Speaker 1: Was the law from Isaac Newton. You got it, but
[52:16] Speaker 1: there's no there's no like laws of physics. I think
[52:20] Speaker 1: you might be confusing, like one of the laws of thermodynamics.
[52:24] Speaker 1: There's traditionally, you know, four laws. People usually quote three
[52:29] Speaker 1: of them, but there's traditionally four laws of thermodynamics, if
[52:32] Speaker 1: I remember correctly. But that doesn't mean anything about the
[52:37] Speaker 1: origin of the universe. Right, so we know for sure
[52:41] Speaker 1: that the universe existed, what would be the evidence that
[52:44] Speaker 1: the universe? What's that it didn't exist at one point?
[52:49] Speaker 2: That it didn't exist?
[52:51] Speaker 1: Yeah? Why would I think that?
[52:57] Speaker 2: Oh so I dont guess you can't, right right?
[53:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, Joe, I had a good time talking to you.
[53:06] Speaker 1: I think I need to move on to my next guest.
[53:09] Speaker 1: I've been waiting for a while, but I mean, you've
[53:11] Speaker 1: been very kind and polite, and I've enjoyed the conversation.
[53:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, I learned a lot too, and I hope, I
[53:18] Speaker 2: hope that you know you do faith in God. Again,
[53:21] Speaker 2: it's hard to understand, and I know that it can
[53:24] Speaker 2: seem crazy, but I do think I believe that God
[53:28] Speaker 2: is loving and all kind, and he wants you to
[53:30] Speaker 2: accept that love, and you know, just embrace it. I'll
[53:34] Speaker 2: pray to my God that you lose faith in your
[53:37] Speaker 2: God and then will be a square Okay, Nah, I
[53:41] Speaker 2: don't think that'll be square, But I mean I'll pray
[53:43] Speaker 2: for you too.
[53:44] Speaker 1: But all right, well he was fun. I kept him
[53:51] Speaker 1: on for a while because he was being polite. You
[53:53] Speaker 1: guys know how to roll around here. If you're being polite,
[53:55] Speaker 1: I let you talk for quite a while. If you're
[53:58] Speaker 1: being a prick, then you know things are gonna get
[54:01] Speaker 1: Harry pretty quick. All right, regard some super chats friends,
[54:06] Speaker 1: and then we'll well keep the thing rolling here. Oh Discurtia,
[54:11] Speaker 1: good to see you, Tony. Thank you for the super chat.
[54:12] Speaker 1: By the way, it says great start justin naval Gazer
[54:15] Speaker 1: and a flat earther want to go for the trifecta
[54:18] Speaker 1: with a prece up. Listen, you know there's gonna be
[54:20] Speaker 1: pres up tonight. There's always a pres up that precepts
[54:23] Speaker 1: can't help themselves. They have to come and pres up.
[54:26] Speaker 1: And Randy, thank you for the ten gifting Deconstruction Zone memberships.
[54:31] Speaker 1: I really appreciate that. Big w for Randy sending out
[54:35] Speaker 1: a dime piece and welcome to the crack and Crew.
[54:38] Speaker 1: Sean of the Dead, w for the name, by the way,
[54:41] Speaker 1: and Lamachus, thank you so much for the one ninety
[54:45] Speaker 1: nine says, do you consider Jesus a moral shift for God?
[54:51] Speaker 1: Kind of, I would say so. But the thing, if
[54:54] Speaker 1: it was like a lot of what Jesus taught you
[54:56] Speaker 1: can find in various sections of the Talmud, it wasn't
[54:59] Speaker 1: like he and today he wasn't all that original. So
[55:03] Speaker 1: but yeah, I would say it's a bit of a shift.
[55:06] Speaker 1: But even from like from the laws in Exodus to
[55:10] Speaker 1: what we find in Deuteronomy, there's even a bit of
[55:13] Speaker 1: a shift, you know, over the couple hundred years. And
[55:16] Speaker 1: Randy again big W for the ten dollars super chat,
[55:20] Speaker 1: thank you so much. It says we'll buy you lamb
[55:23] Speaker 1: fries one day. I would love some Lamb fries Randy,
[55:26] Speaker 1: I really would thank you for that. And j M,
[55:30] Speaker 1: thank you so much. Men to get fried for the
[55:31] Speaker 1: one hundred dollars super chat, Big big W. Let's get
[55:35] Speaker 1: some w's in a chat for JM. Thank you so much.
[55:37] Speaker 1: As Hi justin forty k YouTube subs, congrats cheers from
[55:41] Speaker 1: justin them. Well, thank you so much. I was hoping
[55:44] Speaker 1: i'd cross over forty thousand this week, and if we
[55:47] Speaker 1: finally did it, we finally crossed over the forty thousand mark.
[55:50] Speaker 1: And my new channel DZ debates it's going to be
[55:55] Speaker 1: a debate only channel. I'm not going to have any
[55:57] Speaker 1: educational content. It's just going to be debate. C already
[56:01] Speaker 1: surpassed four thousand. I just started it like a couple
[56:04] Speaker 1: of weeks ago. We're going to be past ten thousand
[56:06] Speaker 1: in a couple more weeks. Make sure you're following DZ Debates.
[56:10] Speaker 1: I'm gonna start posting most of my debate clips over there,
[56:13] Speaker 1: and I'm gonna try to post more educational content and
[56:16] Speaker 1: interviews on my main channel. I wanted to separate the
[56:20] Speaker 1: two a little bit because there's so many people who
[56:23] Speaker 1: just want to watch debate clips. They don't want to
[56:26] Speaker 1: watch live streams, they don't want to watch education, they
[56:29] Speaker 1: just like the debate clips. So I spun it off
[56:31] Speaker 1: into its own channel, nothing but debate clips. It's that
[56:35] Speaker 1: DZ Debates. So go ahead and check that out. But Jam,
[56:38] Speaker 1: thank you so much for supporting the channel. You've been
[56:40] Speaker 1: a huge, huge supporter all through from zero to forty thousand,
[56:45] Speaker 1: So thank you so much. And let's see we got
[56:49] Speaker 1: another one from Randy again. The Holy Shit says I
[56:51] Speaker 1: am sure the Apostles eight Lamb fries. It certainly is
[56:56] Speaker 1: possible that the Apostles had lamb Fries, especially if Jesus
[57:01] Speaker 1: was theoretically the Lamb. I don't know how that works out.
[57:04] Speaker 1: There's some questions that need to be answered now that
[57:06] Speaker 1: I think about it. And Blessed Goku, thank you for
[57:09] Speaker 1: the supertest. As everyone who says they were an atheist
[57:11] Speaker 1: and then became a Christian after reading the Bible carefully
[57:13] Speaker 1: is lying. Praise Doug. Yeah, I don't think he read
[57:16] Speaker 1: it as well as he thought. But listen, if you
[57:22] Speaker 1: if you find yourself in the clink and like you
[57:25] Speaker 1: turn to religion to make yourself a better person, listen,
[57:28] Speaker 1: I love that for you. But he's got he's out
[57:31] Speaker 1: of prison now he's got just some deep digging' and Fenn,
[57:34] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the final our supertests. His
[57:36] Speaker 1: apologetics is the field of excuse invention. You nailed it,
[57:40] Speaker 1: and apologists are professional excuse inventors whose only positive quality
[57:45] Speaker 1: is the smell of fresh pretzels. Actually, I could not
[57:49] Speaker 1: agree more. The goal of apologists is to say, well,
[57:52] Speaker 1: it's possible, it's not impossible, and because it's possible, we
[57:57] Speaker 1: have to assume that it's true. They never stopped to
[58:00] Speaker 1: ask themselves, well, what's the most likely explanation of the
[58:03] Speaker 1: facts on the ground, you know. But Ben, thank you
[58:06] Speaker 1: for the ten of our supertests. As curious as to
[58:08] Speaker 1: why you haven't talked to Matt Dell, Honey, I would
[58:11] Speaker 1: love to see you guys do a show together. Well,
[58:13] Speaker 1: I don't know, Ben, it just hasn't really happened. He's
[58:17] Speaker 1: hosting on the Line, I'm hosting on AXP, so we're
[58:20] Speaker 1: hosting on different networks. I would love to be able
[58:25] Speaker 1: to sit down and have a conversation with them. Eventually,
[58:27] Speaker 1: I'm sure we will. But also remember I'm the new
[58:30] Speaker 1: guy here, like I literally just started debating like a
[58:32] Speaker 1: year and a half ago, so like I'm the new
[58:35] Speaker 1: kid on the block, I kind of have to take
[58:37] Speaker 1: all my stripes. I have to work my way up
[58:40] Speaker 1: the ladder like I have to. I have to earn
[58:42] Speaker 1: it Like Matt already did that. He spent twenty years
[58:45] Speaker 1: earning his spot. I've got to do the same now.
[58:48] Speaker 1: Now it's my turn to work my way up the ladder.
[58:52] Speaker 1: But thank you so much for the super chet and
[58:54] Speaker 1: rock hard for Doug. Good to see it tonight, big
[58:56] Speaker 1: w says. When I came out to my parents, I
[58:58] Speaker 1: told them I no longer Christian. I explained the logical
[59:02] Speaker 1: reasons and evidence. Why, however, my mom said, I just
[59:05] Speaker 1: need to use my heart brain instead of my head brain.
[59:08] Speaker 1: Oh no, would they say that. If you said, hey,
[59:14] Speaker 1: I converted to Islam and they were like, oh, don't
[59:17] Speaker 1: do that, and you're like, well, we got to use
[59:18] Speaker 1: your heart brain not your head brain, they'd be mortified.
[59:22] Speaker 1: It's crazy. Christianity is one of the only religions where
[59:28] Speaker 1: they literally tell you to stop using your brain. Anytime
[59:33] Speaker 1: a religion or an organization says don't think for yourself,
[59:37] Speaker 1: run as far and fast as possible from that organization
[59:41] Speaker 1: and saylah, thank you for the supertest, says why can't
[59:43] Speaker 1: they just admit when the Bible contradicts itself, I would
[59:45] Speaker 1: like to take some more. I'd like to take them
[59:48] Speaker 1: more seriously if they did, or I'd take them more
[59:52] Speaker 1: seriously if they did. I agree with you. It's weird
[59:55] Speaker 1: to me that they can't look at a contradiction and
[59:57] Speaker 1: just say like, oh shit, it's a contradiction. That's the
[1:00:00] Speaker 1: honest thing. That's what you're supposed to do, and eighty
[1:00:03] Speaker 1: percent thank you for the five dollars supertests? Why do
[1:00:05] Speaker 1: the Christians claim three hundred plus fulfill the JC prophecies
[1:00:08] Speaker 1: when they can only name ten max when asked seriously,
[1:00:12] Speaker 1: they only ever named like three or four. Well, the
[1:00:14] Speaker 1: reality is the reason why this happens is because if
[1:00:19] Speaker 1: you believe Jesus fulfilled that many prophecies, it's also true
[1:00:23] Speaker 1: that you've never read the book, right, So you can
[1:00:26] Speaker 1: make claims about something that you've never actually read. But
[1:00:30] Speaker 1: once you've actually been well read, it's obvious that he
[1:00:32] Speaker 1: didn't fulfill even one prophecy. And the New Testament doesn't
[1:00:37] Speaker 1: even list three hundred. New Testament maybe lists a maximum
[1:00:42] Speaker 1: of forty. So the three hundred number is just a
[1:00:46] Speaker 1: bunch of fanciful coping. And Carlos Valdez, good to see
[1:00:49] Speaker 1: you tonight. Thank you so much for the two hundred MX.
[1:00:52] Speaker 1: It says, hey, Doug, ready for another cook. Well, thank
[1:00:58] Speaker 1: you so much for supporting the bar barbecue and we've
[1:01:01] Speaker 1: got some baby back ribs coming up and some deep
[1:01:05] Speaker 1: fried Krispy Christians and Carlos sending out five deconstructions of
[1:01:09] Speaker 1: memberships with that, Thank you so much, Carlos, I really
[1:01:12] Speaker 1: appreciate gifting out the subby's for other people. Who can
[1:01:16] Speaker 1: access to cheat sheet now? And Johannah, thank you again
[1:01:20] Speaker 1: so much for the superchest, says, how can anyone in
[1:01:23] Speaker 1: twenty nine to twenty five still be religious? Understand your
[1:01:26] Speaker 1: own self worth, believe in yourself, and live your life accordingly.
[1:01:30] Speaker 1: I could not say it better than that. We don't
[1:01:33] Speaker 1: need the sky carcass. The cloud Zombie is useless, he
[1:01:37] Speaker 1: doesn't answer prayer, he's not good for anything, and the
[1:01:40] Speaker 1: book is hopelessly contradictory. And Jackson says, Chow, I'm a
[1:01:44] Speaker 1: nice guy, but I'm losing brain cells kick him said, well,
[1:01:47] Speaker 1: listen what I got rid of him? He's gone. We'll
[1:01:49] Speaker 1: get the next one in here. And Jam and Jay,
[1:01:52] Speaker 1: thank you for the super chest, says Chosen King. I
[1:01:54] Speaker 1: thought we're autonomous copy. That's a great Monty Python reference,
[1:01:59] Speaker 1: by the way, I love that. All right, let me
[1:02:00] Speaker 1: grab just a couple more super chests. Sorry, I got
[1:02:03] Speaker 1: backed up because it was a long conversation. And then
[1:02:06] Speaker 1: again with the super chest says it's weird they think
[1:02:08] Speaker 1: God always warms people about atrocities he commits. Nobody was
[1:02:13] Speaker 1: warned about the flood except for Noah. Yeah. They there's
[1:02:17] Speaker 1: a verse in two Peter, where it says that Noah
[1:02:19] Speaker 1: was a herald of righteousness, but doesn't mean that he
[1:02:23] Speaker 1: was like preaching people to get on the arc. God
[1:02:27] Speaker 1: tells him before he gets on the arc that only
[1:02:29] Speaker 1: he and his family are going to be saved. That's
[1:02:32] Speaker 1: wishful thinking if you think Moses told anybody about what
[1:02:36] Speaker 1: was going on. Yeah, I'm with you there. And Chino says, oh,
[1:02:41] Speaker 1: Brother Doug of Immaculate Erection, O amen, well I agree
[1:02:46] Speaker 1: a amen, Hail Doug. And Selah says, I loved one
[1:02:49] Speaker 1: a Christian who has never or hardly read their Bible.
[1:02:51] Speaker 1: Try to fit in context. Try to fit in context
[1:02:56] Speaker 1: into the text where it doesn't exist. Actually, that's pretty
[1:02:59] Speaker 1: much that's usually what happens, right when you don't like
[1:03:02] Speaker 1: what the text actually says, you kind of have to
[1:03:04] Speaker 1: make up additional details to make it work. And last
[1:03:08] Speaker 1: one from Johannah again, thank you so much. Johannah says,
[1:03:12] Speaker 1: I admire your saintly patients. How many more badly translated
[1:03:15] Speaker 1: interpretations the Bible will take for people to realize it's
[1:03:18] Speaker 1: just a bunch of bullshit. Just let it go, this
[1:03:21] Speaker 1: is right. Just do what Bill Burr told you. Just
[1:03:24] Speaker 1: let it go. Just let it just just like a
[1:03:26] Speaker 1: curling stone. Just let it go. You're gonna be fine.
[1:03:30] Speaker 1: You don't need it, not doing anything for you. So
[1:03:34] Speaker 1: we've got in the guest box. Blue. Hey, my boy, Blue,
[1:03:38] Speaker 1: welcome in.
[1:03:39] Speaker 4: What's up?
[1:03:39] Speaker 7: Man?
[1:03:39] Speaker 4: Can you hear me?
[1:03:40] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[1:03:41] Speaker 1: I can hear you?
[1:03:42] Speaker 4: All right? So I mean, are you taking like, only
[1:03:44] Speaker 4: debates or could you ask a question?
[1:03:45] Speaker 2: I have?
[1:03:46] Speaker 1: Well, normally I'm only taking debates, but it's been a
[1:03:51] Speaker 1: slow night and I don't have anyone waiting, so I
[1:03:53] Speaker 1: don't mind taking a question. But before you do that,
[1:03:55] Speaker 1: if you want to debate, you want to get into
[1:03:58] Speaker 1: the discussion, go to tiny rol dot com forward slash
[1:04:01] Speaker 1: dz guest. If you're watching on YouTube, you can find
[1:04:04] Speaker 1: a link in the description of the video to click
[1:04:06] Speaker 1: on that will get you there or on Facebook or
[1:04:08] Speaker 1: Twitch or anywhere else, and then you'll be able to
[1:04:11] Speaker 1: join in the discussion. I cannot take guests on TikTok
[1:04:14] Speaker 1: tonight because I'm running on a Mac and I can't
[1:04:18] Speaker 1: use TikTok Studio on a Mac. But I can stream
[1:04:21] Speaker 1: it over to TikTok using stream labs. I just can't
[1:04:25] Speaker 1: take any guests through stream labs on TikTok it's they
[1:04:28] Speaker 1: don't have that feature yet. So anyways, what's in your mind? Blue?
[1:04:32] Speaker 4: So I was on a debate with a person that's
[1:04:34] Speaker 4: active in the server, and it's it was getting into
[1:04:37] Speaker 4: a lot of coina Greek, and he kept on saying
[1:04:42] Speaker 4: that I think it's Matthew five six, that Zoe colesisios
[1:04:49] Speaker 4: and Zoe ionios can mean different periods of time. He's universalss,
[1:04:52] Speaker 4: so he doesn't believe in eternal hell. I was trying
[1:04:54] Speaker 4: to prove that. I was trying to ask him if
[1:04:56] Speaker 4: he thinks Jesus a liar because of that.
[1:04:59] Speaker 1: So, there's a couple of words in Greek that are difficult,
[1:05:05] Speaker 1: similar to like there's a wide semantic range for olam
[1:05:09] Speaker 1: in Hebrew. Olam can just refer to an indefinite period
[1:05:14] Speaker 1: of time, meaning a period that doesn't have a defined ending.
[1:05:18] Speaker 1: And then when we find like the a in Greek,
[1:05:26] Speaker 1: it's also like typically a very long, undefined period of time,
[1:05:32] Speaker 1: so it usually gets translated as everlasting or sometimes it
[1:05:39] Speaker 1: could be translated as like an age an aon. So
[1:05:45] Speaker 1: it doesn't always mean that it has an end, but
[1:05:50] Speaker 1: sometimes it can hand it it can have an end.
[1:05:54] Speaker 1: And this is the slippery slope that apologists will play,
[1:05:57] Speaker 1: is they'll find a word that has a semantic range,
[1:06:02] Speaker 1: and then what they'll do is say, well, because the
[1:06:05] Speaker 1: word has a semantic range, I'm going to pick the
[1:06:08] Speaker 1: part of the word that I just like, the definition
[1:06:10] Speaker 1: of the word that I like best. I'm going to
[1:06:12] Speaker 1: ignore the context. I'm going to ignore how it usually
[1:06:15] Speaker 1: gets used. I'm going to ignore the culture, and I'm
[1:06:17] Speaker 1: just going to pick the definition of the word that
[1:06:20] Speaker 1: I prefer that fits with my particular view of the passage.
[1:06:25] Speaker 1: But to be sure, that particular word in Matthew shows
[1:06:31] Speaker 1: up in the Bible in ninety nine point nine percent
[1:06:34] Speaker 1: of the time it is always translated as eternal. There's
[1:06:38] Speaker 1: like only two instances where it's not translated as eternal,
[1:06:41] Speaker 1: which means like, if you're using this Greek word as
[1:06:45] Speaker 1: an argument for a non eternal punishment or non eternal fire,
[1:06:51] Speaker 1: I think you're barking up the wrong True, I don't
[1:06:52] Speaker 1: think it's a good argument.
[1:06:56] Speaker 4: That's that's what I was thinking. He kept on argument
[1:06:59] Speaker 4: that he can. He's a really big koper. We're talking today.
[1:07:05] Speaker 4: He's called Jesus a liar four different times because of
[1:07:09] Speaker 4: language Jesus. So I was just I was wondering about that.
[1:07:12] Speaker 4: I was just trying to get an expert opinion on it.
[1:07:15] Speaker 1: Yeah, there are some arguments to be made from the
[1:07:19] Speaker 1: Bible that hell is not permanent, like a lot of
[1:07:23] Speaker 1: people hold to the annihilation theory because of a couple
[1:07:28] Speaker 1: of different passage passages like Jesus talks about the shaft
[1:07:33] Speaker 1: being burned up in the furnace, and then in Revelation
[1:07:36] Speaker 1: twenty one talks about how death and haites are going
[1:07:38] Speaker 1: to be thrown into the lake of fire, which is
[1:07:40] Speaker 1: a second death. And Jesus even warns that do not
[1:07:43] Speaker 1: be afraid of the one who can kill the body,
[1:07:45] Speaker 1: but be afraid of the one who can kill both
[1:07:47] Speaker 1: the body and the soul. And hell, which seems to
[1:07:49] Speaker 1: suggest that hell might be an eternal fire, but your
[1:07:54] Speaker 1: time there is not eternal. Your time there might be limited,
[1:07:57] Speaker 1: you might be burned up completely. So I don't know,
[1:08:01] Speaker 1: But if you're just looking at the grammar, if you're
[1:08:03] Speaker 1: just looking at the language, I think the language in
[1:08:06] Speaker 1: a lot of places indicates that the punishment is eternal.
[1:08:12] Speaker 1: Either way, it's horrific. Like even if hell is temporary,
[1:08:16] Speaker 1: it's horrific. It doesn't make sense whether it's permanent. Like I,
[1:08:21] Speaker 1: there's nothing my child could do that would make me
[1:08:23] Speaker 1: want to light them on fire even for one second.
[1:08:29] Speaker 4: I agree with that, and I don't. You probably know
[1:08:31] Speaker 4: the verse because you read this a lot. He mentioned
[1:08:33] Speaker 4: a verse in return to me saying about how hell
[1:08:36] Speaker 4: is no matter what, it's going to be awful. He
[1:08:39] Speaker 4: mentioned that I brought up the whole why should a
[1:08:42] Speaker 4: murderer go to heaven if I'm his murdery and then
[1:08:44] Speaker 4: I get to go to hell because I think it's
[1:08:46] Speaker 4: repent And he mentioned it's some verse talking about how
[1:08:49] Speaker 4: I'm if you obey your master, you get like like
[1:08:54] Speaker 4: hit harder if you sorry, if you don't obey your master,
[1:08:56] Speaker 4: which you know, you get hit harder or something like that.
[1:08:58] Speaker 4: I can't exactly remember.
[1:09:01] Speaker 1: Yes, So there there's a passage like a mini parable
[1:09:06] Speaker 1: where Jesus is suggesting that there is a greater responsibility
[1:09:10] Speaker 1: for those who know the gospel and there's a lesser
[1:09:12] Speaker 1: responsibility for those who don't know the gospel. Right, so
[1:09:15] Speaker 1: people that are part of the Christian faith are going
[1:09:18] Speaker 1: to be held to a higher account than those who
[1:09:22] Speaker 1: may not fully be aware. That's probably what he was
[1:09:25] Speaker 1: appealing to.
[1:09:27] Speaker 4: Any's saying that he would get the person that murdered
[1:09:30] Speaker 4: me to get punished even if he repents. But I
[1:09:31] Speaker 4: said that faith is faith in Christ is all that's needed,
[1:09:35] Speaker 4: and he's like, but it's not true faith, And.
[1:09:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I would take him to the parable
[1:09:44] Speaker 1: of the eleventh hour. There's a really great parable that
[1:09:47] Speaker 1: Jesus tells where he in the morning, he gets a
[1:09:50] Speaker 1: day laborer and hires him, and then after a couple
[1:09:53] Speaker 1: hours goes back for another day laborer, brings them in,
[1:09:56] Speaker 1: hires them. You know, midday gets another one. Anyways, He's
[1:10:00] Speaker 1: getting these day laborers throughout the day, getting more and
[1:10:02] Speaker 1: more labor, and then at the end of the day
[1:10:05] Speaker 1: he pays all of them the same amount. And the
[1:10:08] Speaker 1: ones who worked all day were like, that's not fair.
[1:10:10] Speaker 1: This guy who's only been here for one hour at
[1:10:12] Speaker 1: the same pay as me. That's horseshit. And Jesus is like, hey,
[1:10:16] Speaker 1: the Kingdom of God isn't fair. You know, you can
[1:10:18] Speaker 1: repent in the eleventh hour, basically, is what he's saying.
[1:10:21] Speaker 1: Even if you lived your whole life, you get the
[1:10:24] Speaker 1: same reward as the person who only lived under the
[1:10:29] Speaker 1: Gospel for one minute. The guy who was there for
[1:10:31] Speaker 1: one minute gets the same thing as the guy who
[1:10:33] Speaker 1: was there for seventy five years. And so I think
[1:10:36] Speaker 1: that's a really good parable because if we're just talking
[1:10:39] Speaker 1: about what the end goal is, if the end goal
[1:10:41] Speaker 1: is to getting to Heaven, then the parable of the
[1:10:44] Speaker 1: eleventh Hour basically says what you needed to say.
[1:10:48] Speaker 4: All right, thank you so much for that. I'm gonna
[1:10:49] Speaker 4: tell him that I just looked it up. It's Matthew
[1:10:52] Speaker 4: twenty one through sixteen, So I'll go ahead and tell
[1:10:55] Speaker 4: him that I really appreciate that. And also one of
[1:10:58] Speaker 4: my friends, he texted me, wants you to know that
[1:11:00] Speaker 4: Darth is blaspheming dog right now. I want to me
[1:11:03] Speaker 4: tell you that before I left.
[1:11:05] Speaker 3: So.
[1:11:07] Speaker 1: Dog Dog will take care of it. Don't worry.
[1:11:10] Speaker 4: I needed to a discord.
[1:11:11] Speaker 2: I don't know why I'm not in there all right.
[1:11:13] Speaker 4: Anyways, Joe, I'll get out of here. I will. I'm
[1:11:15] Speaker 4: gonna get out of here.
[1:11:16] Speaker 1: Justin thank you for having me up man cheers, but
[1:11:18] Speaker 1: good to hear from you at w for Blue.
[1:11:21] Speaker 8: Uh.
[1:11:22] Speaker 1: It's hard dealing with some of the apologists nonsense, you know,
[1:11:25] Speaker 1: what I mean. Excuse me, ah, D Frederick, thank you
[1:11:33] Speaker 1: for the super chat. We got another guest in the
[1:11:35] Speaker 1: Q waiting to come up, so we'll give him a second. D.
[1:11:38] Speaker 1: Frederick says, I know you're probably addressed this, But how
[1:11:41] Speaker 1: does Jesus saying he was without sin castif oh, he
[1:11:44] Speaker 1: who is without sin cassive Verstone reconciled with his upholding
[1:11:47] Speaker 1: mosaic laws. So, first of all, I don't think that
[1:11:50] Speaker 1: period happened, which isn't the first problem. That's in John
[1:11:53] Speaker 1: chapter eight. We don't have any evidence of that passage
[1:11:56] Speaker 1: until like the fifth or the sixth century. It seems
[1:11:59] Speaker 1: to be later interpolation, and it disagrees with Jesus Elsewhere Elsewhere, Jesus,
[1:12:04] Speaker 1: like in Mark chapter seven, advocates for the stoning of
[1:12:08] Speaker 1: the children that curse their parents. Why would Jesus be
[1:12:11] Speaker 1: upset that the Pharisees are not stoning their children and
[1:12:14] Speaker 1: then try to save this adulterous woman. Now, unless he
[1:12:17] Speaker 1: didn't believe she was guilty. Maybe he didn't believe she
[1:12:20] Speaker 1: was guilty. But I think even if John eight was
[1:12:25] Speaker 1: original to the scripture, I don't think most of John
[1:12:30] Speaker 1: like most of what John records is true. By the way,
[1:12:33] Speaker 1: most like of all the Gospels, John quotes these long
[1:12:38] Speaker 1: prayers in diatribes of Jesus, and I was like, who
[1:12:41] Speaker 1: the fuck was writing it down? Who? Like, who was
[1:12:44] Speaker 1: there writing down Jesus's words. Do you think John was
[1:12:48] Speaker 1: chilling with Jesus with a pen and a notepad, just
[1:12:50] Speaker 1: writing down John Chapter seventeen, like three four hundred words
[1:12:55] Speaker 1: worth of prayer. Or do you think like he just
[1:12:57] Speaker 1: he was there and he heard it, and then like,
[1:13:00] Speaker 1: I don't know, a couple years later, he just happened
[1:13:01] Speaker 1: to remember everything Jesus said. It's crazy to think that anyways,
[1:13:06] Speaker 1: when we're talking about the words that Jesus spoke. I'm
[1:13:09] Speaker 1: dubious of most things in the Gospel of John and
[1:13:12] Speaker 1: rockhard for Doug says, why bring yourself down with a
[1:13:15] Speaker 1: horrendous God of the Old Testament when you can skip
[1:13:18] Speaker 1: to the Jesus philosophies of love by just being humanitarian praise?
[1:13:24] Speaker 3: Doug.
[1:13:24] Speaker 1: Actually, I'm with you, Like, here's the thing, though, But
[1:13:27] Speaker 1: once you get to the point where you're like, listen,
[1:13:29] Speaker 1: I'm just going to be part of the faith because
[1:13:31] Speaker 1: I like the philosophy. Once you get to that point, like,
[1:13:35] Speaker 1: you don't really need the book anymore. You don't need Jesus,
[1:13:37] Speaker 1: you don't need the book, you don't need none of
[1:13:38] Speaker 1: that stuff. You can just say like, oh, well, like
[1:13:41] Speaker 1: there's other religions that teach similar stuff that are not horrific,
[1:13:45] Speaker 1: and I'll just follow that religion. I'll just be Buddhists.
[1:13:48] Speaker 1: And uh, Frederick again, thank you so much, says the
[1:13:50] Speaker 1: existence of prophet prisons is something a good God shouldn't allow. Actually,
[1:13:55] Speaker 1: I'm with you. Of the things that we've invented in
[1:13:59] Speaker 1: modern society for profit prisons might be among the worst
[1:14:04] Speaker 1: things that have ever been invented. They're horrific. Nothing like
[1:14:07] Speaker 1: incentivizing locking people up and making them prisoners literally slaves.
[1:14:13] Speaker 1: And Johannah, thank you so much for the ten hour
[1:14:16] Speaker 1: super chat. I appreciate that, big w And Johannah says,
[1:14:19] Speaker 1: any person who has a library card, doesn't see it,
[1:14:22] Speaker 1: and has only one book on their life's reading list
[1:14:25] Speaker 1: might as well pass go and goes straight to their
[1:14:27] Speaker 1: own fabricated Hell. Yeah. Actually, I'm shocked, listen. I know
[1:14:33] Speaker 1: people get bored, I get it, But I'm shocked, Johannah
[1:14:36] Speaker 1: by the amount of people who don't read. I personally,
[1:14:39] Speaker 1: I enjoy reading. I love learning. I love reading. Readers
[1:14:43] Speaker 1: or leaders always remember that, and like, I'm disappointed that
[1:14:47] Speaker 1: there's so many people that claim to be educated and
[1:14:50] Speaker 1: they haven't read a book. You know, it's weird to me.
[1:14:52] Speaker 1: But we've got Ben back with us. Ben, you've been
[1:14:55] Speaker 1: kind of in and out of the guest box for
[1:14:57] Speaker 1: like the last hour, so I wanted to make sure
[1:14:59] Speaker 1: you got in opportunity to come up. Can you hear me, Ben?
[1:15:08] Speaker 3: Ben?
[1:15:11] Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm trying to figure out my headphones here.
[1:15:15] Speaker 1: Yeah, headphones would definitely help.
[1:15:20] Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't know if it's working or not.
[1:15:25] Speaker 2: Can you hear me?
[1:15:26] Speaker 1: Mm hmm, Yeah, I can hear you.
[1:15:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope.
[1:15:31] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[1:15:31] Speaker 8: I think the whole thing contradicts itself, the whole Bible.
[1:15:35] Speaker 8: I think that, you know, it's basically saying that Jesus
[1:15:38] Speaker 8: is Lucifer.
[1:15:40] Speaker 1: You know, yeah, you mean there's the passage in Revelation
[1:15:44] Speaker 1: where Jesus says that he is the bright morning Star. Yes, well,
[1:15:50] Speaker 1: I think.
[1:15:52] Speaker 2: Here go ahead.
[1:15:54] Speaker 1: I think what's happening there is more nuanced. So I
[1:15:56] Speaker 1: don't believe that Lucifer is Satan.
[1:15:59] Speaker 8: Lucifer Isaiah fourteen twelve.
[1:16:03] Speaker 1: But that's not I'm aware, yes, so just follow a
[1:16:06] Speaker 1: long fall along. So Lucifer in Isaiah seven fourteen is
[1:16:10] Speaker 1: a reference to the morning star, which was associated with
[1:16:13] Speaker 1: the planet Venus. And so this, this here is not
[1:16:18] Speaker 1: a reference to Satan. So the morning Star in Isaiah
[1:16:24] Speaker 1: fourteen is referring to a foreign mythology that was known
[1:16:28] Speaker 1: to the king of Babylon, namely the myth I believe
[1:16:31] Speaker 1: of Athtar, who failed in taking over the throne of Bail.
[1:16:37] Speaker 1: So Athtar, Okay, yeah, so that's what's happening. So the Venus,
[1:16:45] Speaker 1: the planet Venus, was referred to as the morning Star.
[1:16:48] Speaker 1: And the reason why this title was important was because Venus,
[1:16:54] Speaker 1: being the brightest of the stars of the morning stars,
[1:16:59] Speaker 1: was was typically referred to as like the the highest
[1:17:04] Speaker 1: of the stars, like they were the most special, the
[1:17:07] Speaker 1: most grandiose of all the stars because it was so
[1:17:09] Speaker 1: bright you can even see it in the morning. And
[1:17:12] Speaker 1: so when Jesus says that he is the bright morning Star,
[1:17:15] Speaker 1: he's not saying that he is the same person Isaiah
[1:17:17] Speaker 1: was talking about. He's saying that, no, no, I'm the
[1:17:21] Speaker 1: brightest of them all, I'm the best, I'm number one.
[1:17:25] Speaker 1: That makes sense, That's how I'm reading it. But I
[1:17:28] Speaker 1: agree with you. The Bible does contradict itself quite a bit, right,
[1:17:31] Speaker 1: Like like.
[1:17:32] Speaker 8: Psalms eighty two six, it says I've said you are gods,
[1:17:36] Speaker 8: and like one Christians three twenty three, you are Christ
[1:17:39] Speaker 8: and Christ is God's And then Colossians two nine that
[1:17:44] Speaker 8: the fullness of God's divine essence, the god Head and
[1:17:48] Speaker 8: bodily formed like it just contradicts the whole self, the
[1:17:51] Speaker 8: whole Bible, does I agree?
[1:17:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, listen, ben, are you in our discord yet? No?
[1:17:58] Speaker 1: So do me a favor and join our discord and
[1:18:02] Speaker 1: shoot be a message or put a message in my
[1:18:05] Speaker 1: chat in there. Because I love going over the contraditions
[1:18:09] Speaker 1: of the Bible. It's possible that you know some that
[1:18:11] Speaker 1: I haven't written down yet, so hit me up offline.
[1:18:15] Speaker 8: Like I reject the materialist view that we are random
[1:18:18] Speaker 8: by bioproducts of evolution. Instead, I propose that humanity is
[1:18:22] Speaker 8: divine in origin, trapped in a civilization just have to
[1:18:27] Speaker 8: reality rule by foreign rule by fallen angels, artificial intelligence,
[1:18:32] Speaker 8: which we call you know, AI satur matrix.
[1:18:37] Speaker 2: I don't know.
[1:18:38] Speaker 8: I have a different view on all this stuff. Like
[1:18:40] Speaker 8: I believe that this is all sun worship, all religions
[1:18:42] Speaker 8: that are to religion. You you know, I believe that
[1:18:45] Speaker 8: we're divine consciousness, you know, from God.
[1:18:48] Speaker 2: You know.
[1:18:48] Speaker 8: I don't believe that there's a God being a sky daddy,
[1:18:51] Speaker 8: but I believe that we have like the one spark
[1:18:54] Speaker 8: like divine like essence in us. Like, I don't know,
[1:18:59] Speaker 8: it's like, how to explain it, But.
[1:19:02] Speaker 1: What's the one thing that distinguishes your God existing from
[1:19:05] Speaker 1: not existing?
[1:19:07] Speaker 8: I'm not saying that there is a God. I'm saying
[1:19:09] Speaker 8: that we.
[1:19:09] Speaker 2: Are all God.
[1:19:11] Speaker 1: So then there's no God.
[1:19:13] Speaker 8: No, there's not.
[1:19:16] Speaker 1: If there's no, he's definitely not. If there's no differentiation
[1:19:20] Speaker 1: between everything and God, then that means that God doesn't exist.
[1:19:25] Speaker 8: You've heard it's the Freemasons.
[1:19:28] Speaker 1: Yes, I'm familiar with all of the secret societies.
[1:19:32] Speaker 8: You know, you would know all this.
[1:19:34] Speaker 1: No, I know that you're that you're into conspiracy theories, right,
[1:19:40] Speaker 1: I'm not. Okay, So I'm in fact, Yeah, we are
[1:19:46] Speaker 1: souls animals. I agree this is all. So what's the evidence.
[1:19:51] Speaker 1: What's the evidence that souls exist?
[1:19:55] Speaker 8: I don't know how to like, I'm not even saying
[1:19:58] Speaker 8: that there is any souls.
[1:20:00] Speaker 1: Oh, okay, so we are soul? This animals cool. So
[1:20:09] Speaker 1: you don't really believe in a traditional god? Do you
[1:20:11] Speaker 1: think that God is everything?
[1:20:14] Speaker 8: I know, I believe that we're a divine consciousness from
[1:20:18] Speaker 8: that one spark of God.
[1:20:19] Speaker 1: But we're not right. Yeah, why do you believe this?
[1:20:23] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[1:20:23] Speaker 1: Why do you believe this nonsense?
[1:20:25] Speaker 8: Why do I believe this nonsense? Because the whole Bible
[1:20:28] Speaker 8: contradicts itself, and the whole.
[1:20:30] Speaker 1: Fucking the Bible has got nothing to do with it.
[1:20:40] Speaker 8: There's no argument there that the Bible contradicts itself.
[1:20:43] Speaker 2: We already know that.
[1:20:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, we agree on that, But I want to know
[1:20:46] Speaker 1: how you went from the Bible contradicts itself to God
[1:20:50] Speaker 1: is indistinguishable from like the hole in the ground.
[1:20:59] Speaker 8: I don't know what you take.
[1:21:00] Speaker 1: I say, if God is everything, then God is nothing.
[1:21:09] Speaker 8: The God of the Bible is not real.
[1:21:11] Speaker 1: I agree, we agree the God of the Bible is
[1:21:14] Speaker 1: not real. But you believe in some kind of a God,
[1:21:16] Speaker 1: and you said that everything is God?
[1:21:22] Speaker 8: Not really what I'm saying.
[1:21:24] Speaker 1: Okay, well, I think you need to formulate your belief
[1:21:26] Speaker 1: system a little bit better and try again. But you're
[1:21:28] Speaker 1: welcome to come back and give it a shout.
[1:21:30] Speaker 8: Okay, I'm well, yeah, I know I wouldn't been waiting
[1:21:33] Speaker 8: in life.
[1:21:34] Speaker 1: Yep, I can be waiting a little bit more because
[1:21:36] Speaker 1: as bullshit argument, you got there all right anyway, So Randy, shit, Randy,
[1:21:42] Speaker 1: thank you so much for gifting out five Deconstruction Zone memberships. Again,
[1:21:46] Speaker 1: thank you so much, my friend. I appreciate that. And
[1:21:49] Speaker 1: we're gonna get Darth in here. We'll see who it is.
[1:21:52] Speaker 1: If it's Darth Dawkins, we'll see. It's been a minute
[1:21:55] Speaker 1: since we got to talk. We lasted like thirty seconds
[1:21:58] Speaker 1: last time. Frederick says, the entire double fulfillment Jesus has
[1:22:03] Speaker 1: will fulfilled prophecies spiritually is one big cope. So, Frederick,
[1:22:07] Speaker 1: I agree with you. This is a topic that I've
[1:22:09] Speaker 1: been talking about NonStop for ever since I got on
[1:22:12] Speaker 1: the internet. The fact that Jesus fulfilled anything is a
[1:22:17] Speaker 1: bullshit cope. He didn't fulfill a damn thing. And saylah,
[1:22:21] Speaker 1: thank you for the super Chest says, do your own research.
[1:22:24] Speaker 1: That's literally what Justin did, and when he presented you
[1:22:27] Speaker 1: with his extensive research, you denied it with no rebuttals. Yeah,
[1:22:31] Speaker 1: pretty much, pretty much. Cognitive dissonance is a motherfucker. You
[1:22:36] Speaker 1: can look with enough cognitive dissonance, you can look at
[1:22:40] Speaker 1: a hurricane and be like, I ain't gonna get wet. Motherfucker,
[1:22:43] Speaker 1: You're gonna get wet. It's a hurricane. And Ray thank
[1:22:46] Speaker 1: you for the six sixty six Hail Satan. A. W
[1:22:49] Speaker 1: Nero says, quickest path to atheism is through the Bible.
[1:22:52] Speaker 1: Read it end to end with no prejudice, intent to
[1:22:55] Speaker 1: discover and understand. Tell me where you end up. I agree.
[1:22:59] Speaker 1: Actually that's what you need to do if you want
[1:23:02] Speaker 1: to know where you fall on their religion spectrum. Just
[1:23:06] Speaker 1: read that Bible. You'll learn a few things. And Brent,
[1:23:09] Speaker 1: thank you for the one ninety nine super thanks, and
[1:23:12] Speaker 1: also for the super chat. Brett, I appreciate that, says
[1:23:14] Speaker 1: with Josea, I'm sorry with that Josea verse, it can't
[1:23:18] Speaker 1: be about Jesus because it mentions the sun called out
[1:23:22] Speaker 1: of burning in sense. But yeah, yeah, exactly the same
[1:23:24] Speaker 1: person that was called out of Egypt was also doing idolatry.
[1:23:28] Speaker 1: But listen, you can't expect Christians to actually read and
[1:23:32] Speaker 1: comprehend the meaning of words. And Spencer thank you for
[1:23:35] Speaker 1: the supertest. Says, Doug plays basketball. His specialty is a
[1:23:38] Speaker 1: full courts press the thing, and that's why basketball players
[1:23:44] Speaker 1: say pass me the rock, send me the rock, because
[1:23:47] Speaker 1: Doug is the rock. And Spencer says, Doug wasn't so
[1:23:50] Speaker 1: good at basketball. Wait, Doug was good, he wasn't spent
[1:23:54] Speaker 1: most of his time on the bench. That's why it's
[1:23:56] Speaker 1: called the dougout. Oh baseball, Sorry, my brain slipped. Doug
[1:24:00] Speaker 1: wasn't so good at baseball, spent most of his time
[1:24:02] Speaker 1: on the bench. That's why they call it doug out.
[1:24:04] Speaker 1: I like that actually, w benchwarmers though. Anyone whoever has
[1:24:11] Speaker 1: to sit on a bench dog feels your pain. He
[1:24:14] Speaker 1: knows what it's like. And Evan, thank you for the
[1:24:16] Speaker 1: super chet. Good to see you to night. For instance,
[1:24:17] Speaker 1: Christians don't read the Bible because learning is scary. Actually,
[1:24:21] Speaker 1: that's a fair point. There's a number, there's quite a few.
[1:24:26] Speaker 1: I've met quite a few Christians that are afraid to
[1:24:28] Speaker 1: engage in counter apologetics because they're afraid of learning something
[1:24:33] Speaker 1: that could deter them. But Johannah, thank you again so
[1:24:37] Speaker 1: much for the super chat. I appreciate this is why
[1:24:39] Speaker 1: do religious people think we are special, Like we are
[1:24:44] Speaker 1: at the top of the shit list. If I had
[1:24:46] Speaker 1: a choice, I would have picked to be bored as
[1:24:49] Speaker 1: an entirely different animal. That's actually a really good point,
[1:24:52] Speaker 1: Like it is kind of cool to be human, but
[1:24:55] Speaker 1: like I don't know, there might be better animals to
[1:24:58] Speaker 1: be than humans, quite honest, And it's been recognized for
[1:25:03] Speaker 1: a long time that humans are to be pitied more
[1:25:07] Speaker 1: than all animals because humans can contemplate their own death,
[1:25:12] Speaker 1: whereas most animals, they just die. They have no idea
[1:25:15] Speaker 1: they're going to die as they're dying. They have no
[1:25:18] Speaker 1: idea they're dying. Dying is not that bad. Knowing you're
[1:25:23] Speaker 1: going to die seems to be the problem. Anyways. Welcome
[1:25:27] Speaker 1: in Darth.
[1:25:28] Speaker 3: Oh hello, Sorry, I'm a bit new to this, so
[1:25:32] Speaker 3: excuse me if I make some mistakes.
[1:25:35] Speaker 1: Welcome. Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't worry about making any mistakes.
[1:25:39] Speaker 1: We're all gonna make some mistakes.
[1:25:42] Speaker 3: Okay, So I guess i'll just give you a quick overview.
[1:25:45] Speaker 3: I'm not that famous to Darth that everyone's been talking about.
[1:25:49] Speaker 3: Picked the name and went in. Okay, So I was
[1:25:53] Speaker 3: raised Catholic, but I consider myself a heretic at this
[1:25:57] Speaker 3: point because I follow some things because Catholic Church says,
[1:26:01] Speaker 3: and there are other things I just don't. Politically, I'm
[1:26:04] Speaker 3: bonapartist and I must be a masochist mentally because I
[1:26:08] Speaker 3: absolutely love debating atheists and in the most friendliest way.
[1:26:11] Speaker 3: I don't get angry, So don't worry. You can say
[1:26:14] Speaker 3: almost anything. I'm not going to get pissed.
[1:26:18] Speaker 1: It should be interesting. Then, So it sounds like you
[1:26:21] Speaker 1: like you're still Christian though, you're just kind of a
[1:26:24] Speaker 1: lapsed Catholic.
[1:26:26] Speaker 3: Yes, sort of a Catholic who goes his own way,
[1:26:28] Speaker 3: chooses what he wants and what he doesn't want.
[1:26:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, I recognize that. Yeah, yeah, my mom's of that persuasion.
[1:26:35] Speaker 2: She's a.
[1:26:37] Speaker 1: She called herself a recovering Catholic for a while. But
[1:26:42] Speaker 1: either way, so what if I had to put it
[1:26:46] Speaker 1: to you, what would be like the most compelling argument
[1:26:49] Speaker 1: or evidence for your God?
[1:26:52] Speaker 3: So after many years debating atheists like yourself, I can
[1:26:57] Speaker 3: say there is no evidence is faith based? We agree that,
[1:27:02] Speaker 3: but yes, we do agree with that. It is definitely
[1:27:05] Speaker 3: faith based. But if there was anything that I personally use, again,
[1:27:09] Speaker 3: this is going to be out of nowhere. He may
[1:27:12] Speaker 3: not have heard this before, but I find it less
[1:27:16] Speaker 3: comforting that there is a God, so I believe there's
[1:27:19] Speaker 3: a God than if there isn't.
[1:27:22] Speaker 1: Can you expound on that, because I feel like most people,
[1:27:26] Speaker 1: myself probably included, would find it more comforting that there
[1:27:31] Speaker 1: is a God, assuming that the God is good. If
[1:27:33] Speaker 1: the God is not good, then I could see why
[1:27:35] Speaker 1: you would.
[1:27:36] Speaker 2: Want the God to exist.
[1:27:37] Speaker 3: But then remember, I do believe in the biblical version,
[1:27:41] Speaker 3: so I do see things of God that I don't
[1:27:45] Speaker 3: think are moral, and therefore I would not believe in
[1:27:49] Speaker 3: the good quote unquote by human standards as to a
[1:27:54] Speaker 3: good God. So now will I go as far as
[1:27:57] Speaker 3: to say evil. No, I wouldn't go as far as
[1:28:00] Speaker 3: to say evil. I will just say he has his
[1:28:04] Speaker 3: own moral systems and it doesn't matter what we think
[1:28:08] Speaker 3: is right.
[1:28:11] Speaker 1: Okay, So this is interesting. So dark, you're doing something
[1:28:15] Speaker 1: that I would just refer to as being honest, which
[1:28:17] Speaker 1: means you're looking at the God of the Bible and
[1:28:20] Speaker 1: you're like, hey, there's some unsavory stuff in there, right,
[1:28:23] Speaker 1: And I agree with you when I look at the
[1:28:25] Speaker 1: God of the Bible, like, eh, no, like that so much.
[1:28:28] Speaker 1: So yeah, if that God exists, then yeah, I'm not
[1:28:32] Speaker 1: too keen on that God. If if there was like
[1:28:36] Speaker 1: an all good version of God, I could be definitely
[1:28:39] Speaker 1: I can warm up to that particular God. So so
[1:28:43] Speaker 1: all that being said, I think you and I are
[1:28:45] Speaker 1: basically you might we might be on the same page.
[1:28:47] Speaker 1: The God of the Bible seems a little bit barbaric, right.
[1:28:52] Speaker 3: Yes, I would say there's definitely. Now that is to say,
[1:28:55] Speaker 3: there are things that I don't even think are issued
[1:29:00] Speaker 3: by God. So for example, let's say we're talking about,
[1:29:04] Speaker 3: you know, when he commands the Israelites to wipe out
[1:29:07] Speaker 3: of people. I personally, the way I look at that
[1:29:09] Speaker 3: when I read it is no, this wasn't God who
[1:29:12] Speaker 3: said It's just whoever was writing that, you know, passage,
[1:29:15] Speaker 3: or whoever needed to command the Israelites at that point,
[1:29:17] Speaker 3: who decided to throw his own thing in there and say, hey,
[1:29:21] Speaker 3: you know, God told me to tell you to go
[1:29:24] Speaker 3: kill those people.
[1:29:27] Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So how do you determine which parts
[1:29:34] Speaker 1: came from Godden which ones didn't come from Goden?
[1:29:38] Speaker 3: Yeah, I should add that I'm relativist, so you'll find
[1:29:43] Speaker 3: that maybe the answer I give to that would be empty.
[1:29:47] Speaker 3: But My answer to it would be is whatever sounds
[1:29:50] Speaker 3: like it makes sense, I follow. And the reason I
[1:29:54] Speaker 3: brought up relativism is if I'm understanding that concept correctly,
[1:29:58] Speaker 3: there are certain laws that I absolutely think are silly
[1:30:03] Speaker 3: in the real world. But that doesn't mean that I
[1:30:06] Speaker 3: get to throw my hands up and say the law
[1:30:08] Speaker 3: doesn't exist. So just as I can accept, you know,
[1:30:13] Speaker 3: unjust laws, I can accept possibly unjust God.
[1:30:18] Speaker 1: Is it possible that the God of the Bible exists
[1:30:24] Speaker 1: and he's actually just a maniacal prick? Is that a possibility.
[1:30:30] Speaker 3: It's a possibility, But again it's a possibility based on standards. Right,
[1:30:35] Speaker 3: So for me and for you, you know, ordering people
[1:30:39] Speaker 3: to go, you know, wipe out on other people or
[1:30:42] Speaker 3: genocide is absolutely a prick move, and that's why I
[1:30:46] Speaker 3: choose not to believe that particular portion of it. But
[1:30:50] Speaker 3: I bet we will bump into something that you might
[1:30:53] Speaker 3: think is unjust and I might think is just.
[1:30:55] Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you a question, like, if you're
[1:30:57] Speaker 1: just gonna pick and choose like the parts that sound good,
[1:31:00] Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, I like that, I'm going to keep that.
[1:31:03] Speaker 1: I don't like that, I'm gonna get rid of that. Okay,
[1:31:05] Speaker 1: if that's your method for defining God, what the fuck
[1:31:09] Speaker 1: do you need the Bible for? Just to find God
[1:31:11] Speaker 1: the way that makes sense to you and throw the.
[1:31:13] Speaker 3: Bible out, because again that relativism kicks in, right that
[1:31:20] Speaker 3: I see a lot of these points and the satisfaction
[1:31:24] Speaker 3: that you've brought up in this world and the politics
[1:31:26] Speaker 3: of this world, and the wars of this world, and
[1:31:29] Speaker 3: all the ridiculousness of this world. I see the exact
[1:31:33] Speaker 3: same silliness that I find in parts of the Bible
[1:31:37] Speaker 3: and in the belief of God. And I just think
[1:31:40] Speaker 3: I have to be fair across the board if I'm
[1:31:43] Speaker 3: going to be fair with the politics and the world
[1:31:45] Speaker 3: that I live in, and I can be fair with religion,
[1:31:48] Speaker 3: God and such things of that nature.
[1:31:51] Speaker 1: Right, But listen to what I'm suggesting. Okay, what I'm
[1:31:53] Speaker 1: suggesting is that you're looking at the Bible and you're
[1:31:56] Speaker 1: saying this part I can't accept, this part I can accept,
[1:32:00] Speaker 1: which means you've made yourself like the arbiter of defining
[1:32:05] Speaker 1: what God is and what God isn't. And that's fine.
[1:32:09] Speaker 1: What I'm suggesting is that if you now are the
[1:32:13] Speaker 1: decider of who and what God is, then what do
[1:32:16] Speaker 1: you need the book for? Just just make up the
[1:32:19] Speaker 1: God the way that makes the most sense to you
[1:32:21] Speaker 1: and throw away the rest of the book. You don't
[1:32:23] Speaker 1: need it. It's useless to you.
[1:32:25] Speaker 3: Isn't that essentially what I'm doing?
[1:32:27] Speaker 1: I guess, Yeah, that's what.
[1:32:29] Speaker 3: I'm saying the entire book. But again, like I would say,
[1:32:34] Speaker 3: if I find a couple of bad laws, do I
[1:32:36] Speaker 3: throw out the law? You know?
[1:32:39] Speaker 1: Well, but that's what I'm suggesting, is like, if like,
[1:32:42] Speaker 1: if you already believe in a God, you clearly don't
[1:32:45] Speaker 1: believe in the Bible God. You're just picking the parts
[1:32:48] Speaker 1: of the Bible God that you like. If that's what
[1:32:50] Speaker 1: you're doing, you can do all of that without a Bible.
[1:32:53] Speaker 1: You don't need a Koran. You don't need a Bible.
[1:32:55] Speaker 1: You don't need a Baca Davida, you don't need none
[1:32:58] Speaker 1: of that stuff. You could just say I believe in
[1:32:59] Speaker 1: a God ud and these are the properties that make
[1:33:02] Speaker 1: the most sense to me. What do you need the
[1:33:03] Speaker 1: book for?
[1:33:06] Speaker 3: M I guess if I were to honest, honestly answer that,
[1:33:12] Speaker 3: I would say, I like, of all the different versions
[1:33:15] Speaker 3: of gods out there, and you know, it might just
[1:33:18] Speaker 3: be my bias that I've grown up in that religion
[1:33:21] Speaker 3: that I choose the Christian version, and the honest reason
[1:33:27] Speaker 3: is it's the only version of God where he does something.
[1:33:32] Speaker 3: He takes responsibility for creation. I think creation is a dangerous,
[1:33:37] Speaker 3: destructive thing. I mean, that's a little spun off from it.
[1:33:40] Speaker 3: I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Prometheus,
[1:33:43] Speaker 3: where David Deandroid has discovered creation and he does the
[1:33:47] Speaker 3: most wildest dangerous things with it. So I think this
[1:33:53] Speaker 3: Jesus version of God is a god. He was like, yeah,
[1:33:57] Speaker 3: you know what, I screwed up. Let me go down
[1:34:00] Speaker 3: and try to fix this myself. So that's why I.
[1:34:03] Speaker 1: Choose who is Jesus praying to?
[1:34:08] Speaker 3: Who is Jesus praying to? Well, obviously I've believing the
[1:34:12] Speaker 3: Trinitarian version of it. So Jesus is gone.
[1:34:16] Speaker 1: Right, So he's schizophrenic.
[1:34:21] Speaker 3: Is he? No? Only he's only schizophrenic if you are
[1:34:25] Speaker 3: looking at him as purely human.
[1:34:27] Speaker 1: Right, right. But like people who talk to themselves typically
[1:34:32] Speaker 1: like get put in patted rooms, I.
[1:34:34] Speaker 3: Think we all talk to ourselves. I think anybody who's
[1:34:37] Speaker 3: saying they don't talk to themselves is lying.
[1:34:39] Speaker 1: Does yourself talk back to you, m, yeah, I think so.
[1:34:46] Speaker 3: I think we would call that thought. I didn't think
[1:34:49] Speaker 3: i'd call it schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is something you get diagnosed
[1:34:53] Speaker 3: with when you start doing, you know, something spontaneous and ridiculous,
[1:34:57] Speaker 3: and you know, when the voices tell you to go,
[1:35:00] Speaker 3: you something.
[1:35:01] Speaker 1: Do you ever pray to yourself?
[1:35:04] Speaker 3: I pray. I don't think I'm praying to myself. You
[1:35:07] Speaker 3: might say, I mean, you would say I'm praying to
[1:35:09] Speaker 3: myself because you're an atheist. Right.
[1:35:12] Speaker 1: Why does Jesus and the Father not have the same will?
[1:35:18] Speaker 3: I would say they have the same will.
[1:35:21] Speaker 2: They can't them not having the same.
[1:35:23] Speaker 1: When he prayed in the garden of Kassemene says your
[1:35:26] Speaker 1: will be done, not mine, Yes, which means Jesus didn't
[1:35:31] Speaker 1: want to go to that cross. He prayed in anguish
[1:35:34] Speaker 1: to take that away, not to send him to the cross.
[1:35:37] Speaker 1: And then ultimately, you know, he bowed his will to
[1:35:40] Speaker 1: the Father's will, which means they're clearly not the same
[1:35:43] Speaker 1: person if they have different minds in different wills.
[1:35:50] Speaker 3: That's why they said three persons in one God. They
[1:35:52] Speaker 3: are clearly three different persons.
[1:35:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's three different gods too.
[1:36:00] Speaker 3: No, not three different bonts.
[1:36:01] Speaker 1: Oh, they certainly are three different guys. Yeah, well what
[1:36:05] Speaker 1: makes them one guy?
[1:36:06] Speaker 3: Say that? But you can say that, but then that's
[1:36:10] Speaker 3: not the trinitarian mystery itself.
[1:36:13] Speaker 1: Right, Well, I only think the Trinitarian is a mystery.
[1:36:16] Speaker 1: I think it's just ridiculous. Like you're saying it breaks
[1:36:20] Speaker 1: it breaks logic. So rather than saying it's illogical, I'm
[1:36:24] Speaker 1: just gonna call it a mystery. It's just illogical.
[1:36:27] Speaker 3: The reason why I would say it does not break
[1:36:29] Speaker 3: logic is you are trying to describe something that you
[1:36:35] Speaker 3: cannot put under a microscope or observed. So who is
[1:36:39] Speaker 3: to say that something cannot have the three persons and
[1:36:43] Speaker 3: still be one thing. For example, if aliens came out
[1:36:47] Speaker 3: of the sky and I don't know they had some
[1:36:49] Speaker 3: other breathing apparatus, you can't say, well, I don't believe
[1:36:54] Speaker 3: that breathing apparatus just because you've never seen it before.
[1:36:57] Speaker 1: Right, So you're appealing to a logic that you don't
[1:36:59] Speaker 1: know exists.
[1:37:01] Speaker 3: Exactly. Yeah, it is a logic that we don't know exist.
[1:37:05] Speaker 3: Neither of us can prove it. So, but that is
[1:37:07] Speaker 3: my belief.
[1:37:08] Speaker 1: So you want to make sure I just want to
[1:37:11] Speaker 1: make sure we're on the same page real quick. You're
[1:37:13] Speaker 1: saying that there is a different type of logic that
[1:37:15] Speaker 1: we don't know about. It kind of sounds to me
[1:37:18] Speaker 1: like you're inventing a new form of logic to get
[1:37:21] Speaker 1: around the fact that the Trinity is illogical.
[1:37:24] Speaker 3: I don't know how you got down that path. Sorry,
[1:37:28] Speaker 3: I'm not saying I'm saying it's logical, because at least
[1:37:31] Speaker 3: when I say it, it's logical because I'm talking about
[1:37:33] Speaker 3: something alien. Can't you don't believe in the thing. If
[1:37:38] Speaker 3: I'm telling you about the thing and you think it's illogical,
[1:37:43] Speaker 3: then I mean, I really can't help you with that,
[1:37:47] Speaker 3: because to me, it makes logical sense. Three persons within
[1:37:51] Speaker 3: one god. Obviously it sounds ridiculous because you cannot observe
[1:37:55] Speaker 3: any other being like that on this.
[1:37:56] Speaker 1: Certainly it is ridiculous. Yeah, because it it would be
[1:38:00] Speaker 1: three gods. What's the thing that makes them one god
[1:38:03] Speaker 1: and not three gods?
[1:38:07] Speaker 3: That's the thing that makes them one of them? Hmm.
[1:38:13] Speaker 3: I guess the way I would answer that is because
[1:38:19] Speaker 3: because he said so, and I'm going by his word.
[1:38:23] Speaker 1: Yeah, but we already said you get the stuff that
[1:38:25] Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. You can get rid of but just
[1:38:27] Speaker 1: get rid of the Trinity.
[1:38:29] Speaker 3: No, because if I get rid of the Trinity, then
[1:38:31] Speaker 3: it's no longer God taking responsibility for the mess of
[1:38:34] Speaker 3: that is creation.
[1:38:37] Speaker 1: That's his fuck up. He doesn't have to listen. If
[1:38:40] Speaker 1: he wanted to take responsibility for it, he could have
[1:38:42] Speaker 1: just fixed it. He didn't have to come down and
[1:38:45] Speaker 1: sacrifice himself to himself. They didn't fix anything. He could
[1:38:49] Speaker 1: have just clicked his fingers and forgave everybody.
[1:38:53] Speaker 3: That's this. I've heard this a lot from atheists, and
[1:38:57] Speaker 3: to me, that just comes off as wouldn't it be
[1:38:59] Speaker 3: nice if everyone had a million dollars in a matter?
[1:39:02] Speaker 1: Oh no, not even clothes. Had nothing to do with
[1:39:04] Speaker 1: what I said. I had nothing to do with what
[1:39:06] Speaker 1: I said. I said, No, it's not even close. You
[1:39:10] Speaker 1: have no idea what I just said. I didn't say
[1:39:12] Speaker 1: anything about living an easy life. I said he could
[1:39:14] Speaker 1: have clicked his fingers and forgave everybody. You're suggesting that
[1:39:19] Speaker 1: Jesus was sent because he needed to fix the mess.
[1:39:22] Speaker 1: Presumably you're suggesting that Jesus was sent to reverse the curse.
[1:39:26] Speaker 1: But he doesn't have to kill Jesus to reverse the curse.
[1:39:29] Speaker 1: He can just reverse the curse. He could just say.
[1:39:31] Speaker 3: So you're going by an assumption there that I don't
[1:39:36] Speaker 3: quite follow. I'm not quite sure what makes you the
[1:39:39] Speaker 3: arbiter to say that he does not need to do that?
[1:39:42] Speaker 3: How do you know he didn't need to do that?
[1:39:44] Speaker 1: It's just definitionly true. Is God all powerful?
[1:39:51] Speaker 3: I actually don't know.
[1:39:52] Speaker 1: Maybe not, so God's not powerful enough to control who
[1:39:56] Speaker 1: he forgives.
[1:39:58] Speaker 3: Wait, no, that's the different question from the first one
[1:40:01] Speaker 3: you asked, Is God all powerful?
[1:40:03] Speaker 1: Right? But presumably the power we're talking about is the
[1:40:06] Speaker 1: power to forgive people.
[1:40:09] Speaker 3: If if I respond with God may not be all powerful,
[1:40:13] Speaker 3: then that does kind of answer your second question because
[1:40:16] Speaker 3: I'm already no. If I had said that he was
[1:40:18] Speaker 3: all powerful, then we can go down that path.
[1:40:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, But my question was whether or not he had
[1:40:24] Speaker 1: the power to forgive people. Is that something that he
[1:40:28] Speaker 1: has the power to do.
[1:40:31] Speaker 3: He has the power to forgive people, Yes, but the
[1:40:35] Speaker 3: debate is whether or not he needed to sacrifice himself
[1:40:39] Speaker 3: for it? Right, And to my knowledge, she was, that's
[1:40:41] Speaker 3: the question that people. He was forgiving people before Jesus
[1:40:45] Speaker 3: came to From my understanding, Jews always believed in some
[1:40:48] Speaker 3: form of forgiveness.
[1:40:50] Speaker 1: Right, So the question is why does God need to
[1:40:56] Speaker 1: murder Jesus to forgive anyone?
[1:41:00] Speaker 3: Well, again, I have to disagree with the way you're
[1:41:03] Speaker 3: phrasing it, because from my point of view is it's
[1:41:06] Speaker 3: why is God? You know? Why does God need to
[1:41:10] Speaker 3: sacrifice himself? You're saying that God is sending this person,
[1:41:14] Speaker 3: but that's not how I see it.
[1:41:17] Speaker 1: Right, What did Jesus die for.
[1:41:21] Speaker 3: As a sacrifice?
[1:41:23] Speaker 1: There you go?
[1:41:24] Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, to.
[1:41:25] Speaker 1: Atone for the sins?
[1:41:27] Speaker 3: Right?
[1:41:28] Speaker 1: Was God capable of just forgiving the sins?
[1:41:38] Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe not.
[1:41:40] Speaker 1: You don't know. So God can't control who he forgives.
[1:41:44] Speaker 1: That's the power even I have as a human being.
[1:41:47] Speaker 1: You're telling me I'm more powerful than God.
[1:41:51] Speaker 3: You're looking at it from a human perspective of you
[1:41:54] Speaker 3: forgiving Let's say someone who's done you something wrong?
[1:41:57] Speaker 1: Right, Actually, that's what I would Just pause, briefly, take
[1:42:01] Speaker 1: a deep breath, starth I want you to take account
[1:42:04] Speaker 1: for where the conversation has led you to this point.
[1:42:07] Speaker 1: You're suggesting that me, a human being, I have control
[1:42:11] Speaker 1: over who I choose to forgive. But God, the strongest
[1:42:16] Speaker 1: agent in the universe can't control who he chooses to forgive,
[1:42:22] Speaker 1: so he didn't even have control over his own agency.
[1:42:27] Speaker 3: I think you're misunderstanding what the sacrifice was.
[1:42:31] Speaker 1: Nope, I'm not talking about the sacrifice. I'm talking about
[1:42:34] Speaker 1: God forgiving people.
[1:42:37] Speaker 3: So what I said was he was always forgiving people
[1:42:39] Speaker 3: before that, before Jesus, he was already forgiving them.
[1:42:46] Speaker 1: Shit, we got we got a co host up in here. Now,
[1:42:50] Speaker 1: can you guys see her. Let's make sure your mic works,
[1:42:54] Speaker 1: so Sarah, sure, sorry, hold on, let me make sure
[1:42:58] Speaker 1: your audio works. Hold on, it says your microphone works.
[1:43:08] Speaker 2: Mm.
[1:43:09] Speaker 1: Yeah, we can hear you.
[1:43:10] Speaker 6: Know I can't see you?
[1:43:13] Speaker 1: No, unfortunately. Oh but you got to put your earbudson.
[1:43:20] Speaker 6: Oh man, all right hand.
[1:43:22] Speaker 1: Sorry, we've got Darth on the line with us right now.
[1:43:30] Speaker 6: One sex.
[1:43:31] Speaker 3: Just make sure that it's not the same as DARTHA.
[1:43:35] Speaker 1: No, no, they don't.
[1:43:39] Speaker 6: Okay, you don't connect?
[1:43:42] Speaker 2: Wait?
[1:43:42] Speaker 6: Can people see me or just hear me?
[1:43:45] Speaker 1: They can see and hear you.
[1:43:49] Speaker 6: Okay, wait, let me just connect. How do I do
[1:43:53] Speaker 6: this your phone?
[1:43:55] Speaker 2: Okay? Man? Connect?
[1:43:59] Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
[1:44:07] Speaker 1: Are your ear buds connected to your PC?
[1:44:13] Speaker 6: Can?
[1:44:22] Speaker 1: It should be just like we set it up for
[1:44:23] Speaker 1: the Bible Study. Looks like it's working. We're good to go,
[1:44:28] Speaker 1: all right, fantastic For anyone who doesn't know. This is
[1:44:32] Speaker 1: Sarah known as Leaving Faith. We're actually we're going to
[1:44:35] Speaker 1: be recording this week our next installment of the Bible
[1:44:40] Speaker 1: Study that we've been doing on her channel. So make
[1:44:42] Speaker 1: sure you're following Leaving Faith. And we've got Darth with
[1:44:46] Speaker 1: us right now. We're trying to get to the bottom
[1:44:48] Speaker 1: of whether or not God had the ability to forgive humanity,
[1:44:52] Speaker 1: or whether or not he had to murder somebody to
[1:44:55] Speaker 1: forgive them.
[1:44:57] Speaker 3: Gotcha again, I will disagree with the phrasing of it,
[1:45:00] Speaker 3: but hey, I don't think we'll get around that.
[1:45:04] Speaker 9: So, Darth, do you think he has like full is
[1:45:09] Speaker 9: God all powerful and can do anything he wants?
[1:45:12] Speaker 6: Or is he bound by some natural laws?
[1:45:15] Speaker 3: I believe he might be bound by some laws. How come,
[1:45:22] Speaker 3: because it doesn't make sense to be all powerful all good.
[1:45:26] Speaker 3: I think it was called the Epicurean riddle or something
[1:45:30] Speaker 3: along those lines.
[1:45:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, we know about the epicurrem paradox.
[1:45:34] Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so I'd say, no, he's probably not all powerful.
[1:45:39] Speaker 1: But does he at least have power over he chooses
[1:45:42] Speaker 1: who he chooses to forgive. Yes, okay, good, So God
[1:45:49] Speaker 1: could forgive anybody he wants to. He could, yes, So
[1:45:55] Speaker 1: then why did he have to kill Jesus.
[1:45:58] Speaker 3: Well, again, I would say he didn't kill Jesus. Jesus
[1:46:00] Speaker 3: was him, So just quibble. But what I would say
[1:46:05] Speaker 3: is I can forgive as well. I have the same
[1:46:10] Speaker 3: power like you to forgive. But guess what, I don't
[1:46:12] Speaker 3: forgive everyone. They are people that I haven't forgiven.
[1:46:15] Speaker 1: Right. But we're trying to get to the bottom of
[1:46:17] Speaker 1: whether or not he needed to sacrifice anything. Right, So
[1:46:21] Speaker 1: if God has the ability to forgive, what was stopping
[1:46:25] Speaker 1: him for just to forgive people?
[1:46:28] Speaker 3: Wait? I think I disagree with that. I don't think
[1:46:30] Speaker 3: he needed to forgive.
[1:46:34] Speaker 6: But he wanted to, right, He wanted to forgive.
[1:46:37] Speaker 3: You wanted to You wanted to forgive people. But again,
[1:46:40] Speaker 3: we're confusing his forgiveness with the sacrifice, and I feel
[1:46:43] Speaker 3: like we stepped away from the sacrifice.
[1:46:46] Speaker 1: No, we already went over this. He sent Jesus to
[1:46:50] Speaker 1: atone for the sins, which equals forgiveness of the sins.
[1:46:56] Speaker 3: No, it's a doorway to allow fact for access to forgiveness. No, Yes,
[1:47:04] Speaker 3: because that's not what forgiveness. I've always said, that's not
[1:47:08] Speaker 3: what that's not what it's able to ask for forgiveness prior.
[1:47:13] Speaker 1: To That's not what a tone means. Do you know
[1:47:19] Speaker 1: what the word of tone means?
[1:47:20] Speaker 3: I know what the word of tone means, but you
[1:47:22] Speaker 3: did introduce it here. I don't quite what does it mean?
[1:47:26] Speaker 3: Where a tonement is to make right or something right.
[1:47:29] Speaker 1: It's a covering for sin, right, was so the way
[1:47:33] Speaker 1: that you dealt with the impurity of sin was that
[1:47:35] Speaker 1: you covered it right. And so if Jesus is the
[1:47:39] Speaker 1: atonement for the sin, he's he's the covering for the sin.
[1:47:42] Speaker 1: He's the thing that fixes the sin and makes you right.
[1:47:48] Speaker 3: Right, Yes, but that's not automatic to me. Jesus what
[1:47:52] Speaker 3: he did was a sacrifice to allow an opening, or
[1:47:56] Speaker 3: a faster access to forgiveness. But I could not forget
[1:48:00] Speaker 3: business itself.
[1:48:01] Speaker 1: But could God do it without killing Jesus?
[1:48:06] Speaker 3: Wait? Well, define it? Can he do? What?
[1:48:10] Speaker 1: Could God open up the forgiveness highway without killing anyone?
[1:48:17] Speaker 1: Probably not what a weak god?
[1:48:23] Speaker 3: It might be weak, but again it's it's logical. It
[1:48:28] Speaker 3: makes sense, Like.
[1:48:32] Speaker 6: What is it about this God that you like? And worship.
[1:48:36] Speaker 3: Well, you missed the part where I said it before.
[1:48:38] Speaker 3: But the reason I cling to the Christian God is
[1:48:41] Speaker 3: because it's the only God who took responsibility for the
[1:48:44] Speaker 3: mess up that is this existence.
[1:48:48] Speaker 6: How did he So you like this God because this
[1:48:53] Speaker 6: God screwed up.
[1:48:56] Speaker 3: And he's a yes, that's it. Well, I wouldn't say
[1:49:02] Speaker 3: that's it. I think that's pretty unique. When looking at
[1:49:04] Speaker 3: all the other religions I have yet to really find
[1:49:07] Speaker 3: enough one does I.
[1:49:08] Speaker 6: Mean, is that worth worshiping? That's what a lot of
[1:49:11] Speaker 6: us do. That seems pretty normal and pretty human.
[1:49:17] Speaker 3: I guess I'm comfortable with it because I had said
[1:49:20] Speaker 3: to Justin. Is it that I had said to Justin
[1:49:22] Speaker 3: that I'm a relativist, So I see a lot of
[1:49:26] Speaker 3: these contradictions and silliness in just reality. I bring up
[1:49:30] Speaker 3: the law a lot when I say that, because there
[1:49:32] Speaker 3: are a lot of unjust cops, a lot of unjust laws.
[1:49:36] Speaker 3: Just because a cop pulls me over for the wrong
[1:49:38] Speaker 3: reason and beats me up doesn't mean I get to
[1:49:40] Speaker 3: say the cop doesn't exist, right.
[1:49:44] Speaker 6: Sure, but you don't have to worship the cop.
[1:49:46] Speaker 1: Plus, you know the cop exists because he pulled you
[1:49:49] Speaker 1: over and beats you up.
[1:49:51] Speaker 3: Yeah, but we won't know the punishment until the end.
[1:49:54] Speaker 3: So apparently there is a punishment towards the end.
[1:49:57] Speaker 1: So right, But in the example you, hey, if you
[1:50:00] Speaker 1: know the cop exists because he beats you up, we
[1:50:02] Speaker 1: have no evidence that God is the cop that beat
[1:50:05] Speaker 1: us all up.
[1:50:07] Speaker 3: That's true, but I think I conceded that from the
[1:50:09] Speaker 3: beginning that I will have no evidence to give you.
[1:50:12] Speaker 1: Fair enough, you did concede that, and so we still
[1:50:15] Speaker 1: agree on that point. But listen, Darth, I had a
[1:50:18] Speaker 1: good time talking to you. We got to get to
[1:50:19] Speaker 1: a couple of the other guests in the queue, but
[1:50:22] Speaker 1: thanks for a come up and chatting.
[1:50:24] Speaker 3: One quick question if I made just before I go.
[1:50:27] Speaker 3: I don't know if I understood correctly, but did did
[1:50:30] Speaker 3: you say you went to seminary and study the Bible?
[1:50:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, I went to public college and seminary.
[1:50:35] Speaker 3: Would that be for to be like a Catholic priest store.
[1:50:40] Speaker 1: No, it was a Protestant seminary. There are Catholic seminaries
[1:50:45] Speaker 1: that would allow non Catholics in, but you can't do
[1:50:48] Speaker 1: an MDiv there. So like initially I was going to
[1:50:51] Speaker 1: go to Notre Dame. I love Notre Dame, by the way,
[1:50:54] Speaker 1: but I wanted to do a full MDiv. Not just
[1:50:57] Speaker 1: a master's degree, and you have to be like to
[1:51:00] Speaker 1: do their full emptive program, so I didn't go there.
[1:51:03] Speaker 3: Huh perfect. Thanks so much friends and my questions and
[1:51:06] Speaker 3: thanks for having me on Justin.
[1:51:09] Speaker 1: From Darth, Well that was new. Did not expect some
[1:51:18] Speaker 1: of those answers.
[1:51:21] Speaker 9: It's so interesting to me when I get a lot
[1:51:24] Speaker 9: of commenters who say some version of like, well, that's
[1:51:27] Speaker 9: just what God is, and you know, we don't really
[1:51:30] Speaker 9: have a lot of options and this signe but like
[1:51:36] Speaker 9: I don't understand why you worship that god?
[1:51:40] Speaker 6: You know.
[1:51:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the guy he's deconstructing, he doesn't know it yet,
[1:51:47] Speaker 1: but he's deconstructing it. Sounds like it's just he grew
[1:51:50] Speaker 1: up with it and he's not ready to let go
[1:51:52] Speaker 1: of it yet.
[1:51:54] Speaker 6: I get that.
[1:51:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna grab a couple of super chats and
[1:51:57] Speaker 1: we're gonna get our next guest in here. Guys while
[1:51:59] Speaker 1: I'm doing and that, make sure you're following Sarah's channel.
[1:52:02] Speaker 1: Go to Leaving Faith and follow Sarah's channel on TikTok
[1:52:05] Speaker 1: and on YouTube. She's a vital member of our community
[1:52:09] Speaker 1: and Wicked's wicked smart. Matthew March, thank you for the supertest, says,
[1:52:13] Speaker 1: trade you a favor for a Doug sighting, appreciate you
[1:52:17] Speaker 1: as always, Wait a fiver, trade you a fiver? Sorry, Well,
[1:52:20] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the fiber Matthew and Big
[1:52:23] Speaker 1: w for the profile picture. Looks like our divinity, Doug
[1:52:27] Speaker 1: the divine rock w there and Ray Fuller, thank you
[1:52:31] Speaker 1: so much for the six sixty six says, Oh my god,
[1:52:33] Speaker 1: you are so much better than Matt. Della honey. These
[1:52:35] Speaker 1: days you still use logic and wit. Matt has spiraled
[1:52:38] Speaker 1: into ego driven hate and vulgarity. Matt, it seems to
[1:52:43] Speaker 1: be increasingly hostile. I still enjoy watching, but there are
[1:52:51] Speaker 1: a couple of times where like he's really bit some
[1:52:53] Speaker 1: people's heads off. I was like, I don't know if
[1:52:56] Speaker 1: that's the rude I was gonna take. But he's still listen.
[1:53:01] Speaker 1: Whether you like him or not, he's fun to watch,
[1:53:03] Speaker 1: I think. And Max, thank you for the supertest, says
[1:53:07] Speaker 1: this is just some free money. Hell Doug, well, shit,
[1:53:10] Speaker 1: thank you so much. Max. I appreciate it. Hell Doug
[1:53:13] Speaker 1: absolutely and I reactored in the house tonight good to see.
[1:53:16] Speaker 1: Your friend says, what's your apologetic for Doug torturing the
[1:53:19] Speaker 1: poor bloke? Sisyphus praise Doug. Here's some guys, well listen.
[1:53:26] Speaker 1: That's a tough question. Actually, I might have to pray
[1:53:28] Speaker 1: about that one for those who don't know. And Hades
[1:53:30] Speaker 1: there's a guy named Sysyphis who's cursed to push or
[1:53:32] Speaker 1: rock up a hill for all of eternity, and it's
[1:53:36] Speaker 1: it's a dire situation. I don't blame Doug, but I
[1:53:40] Speaker 1: don't have an answer for that. I'm gonna have to
[1:53:41] Speaker 1: pray for answers to Doug. But thank you for the question.
[1:53:44] Speaker 1: I reactor. That's a good that's a good question. And
[1:53:47] Speaker 1: Luke says, did you watch Alex O'Connor's debate with Cliff
[1:53:51] Speaker 1: about slavery? I gotta be honest, I didn't because I've
[1:53:54] Speaker 1: already heard Cliff and his son talk about it so
[1:53:56] Speaker 1: many times with the same old talking points. They we're
[1:53:58] Speaker 1: gonna bring anything new to the table, So it's kind
[1:54:01] Speaker 1: of like, I don't really need this debate, not gonna
[1:54:04] Speaker 1: I'm not gonna learn anything new. So no, I didn't
[1:54:06] Speaker 1: watch it, but I love Alex. I should watch it,
[1:54:09] Speaker 1: and last one, Johannah, thank you so much for the
[1:54:11] Speaker 1: super chest says I loved reading. My early childhood was
[1:54:14] Speaker 1: filled with fairy tales. I grew up stopped believing these
[1:54:17] Speaker 1: fairy tales were true, but I still have instilled in
[1:54:20] Speaker 1: me the positive life lesson that every fairy tale tries
[1:54:24] Speaker 1: to teach us. This is actually a really good point.
[1:54:26] Speaker 1: There is a Bible commentary that kind of touches on
[1:54:29] Speaker 1: this that you may be interested in, is called Joshua
[1:54:32] Speaker 1: in three D. It was written by Daniel Hawk, and
[1:54:36] Speaker 1: his theory was that some of the stories in the
[1:54:40] Speaker 1: Bible are kind of like tapping into these primal instincts
[1:54:45] Speaker 1: we have as storytellers to like tell stories about underdogs
[1:54:49] Speaker 1: and heroes and things like that. Actually really interesting, definitely
[1:54:53] Speaker 1: worth a read. But with that, we're gonna get our
[1:54:56] Speaker 1: next guest in here, who doesn't seem to have a name,
[1:55:01] Speaker 1: but wrote in the spot for the name. Trump is God,
[1:55:05] Speaker 1: by the way, so this should be not just blasphemous
[1:55:09] Speaker 1: but also really entertaining. How you doing Trump is God?
[1:55:18] Speaker 1: Let's see if Trump gave them power to figure out
[1:55:20] Speaker 1: the microphone situation. Trump is a lot of things, but
[1:55:28] Speaker 1: I wasn't going to put God on the list. That
[1:55:30] Speaker 1: wasn't at the that wasn't the thing. Well, apparently Trump
[1:55:36] Speaker 1: is God. Might just be a troll because they don't
[1:55:39] Speaker 1: seem to know how to use any of their They've
[1:55:42] Speaker 1: got three microphones, they don't have any of them active.
[1:55:45] Speaker 1: So I guess we'll move on to the next wady. Well,
[1:55:49] Speaker 1: it was like Trump is gone now and we're going
[1:55:52] Speaker 1: to get Joe in the guest box. How you doing, Joe?
[1:55:58] Speaker 1: Some of these people have been waiting in the guest
[1:56:00] Speaker 1: box for a little while, so it's it can happen
[1:56:04] Speaker 1: that they they fall asleep or whatnot. But Joe hasn't
[1:56:08] Speaker 1: been in that long. Joe, can you hear us? Joe?
[1:56:16] Speaker 3: Hello?
[1:56:18] Speaker 1: Hello? Well Joe, Joe doesn't have any speakers attached to
[1:56:23] Speaker 1: their There we go. Yeah, I can hear now, how
[1:56:27] Speaker 1: you doing, Joe?
[1:56:29] Speaker 2: You can hear me?
[1:56:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, I can also hear me backfeeding into it. Is
[1:56:33] Speaker 1: there any chance you can turn your speakers down or
[1:56:35] Speaker 1: put some headphones in you?
[1:56:40] Speaker 4: Yeah?
[1:56:40] Speaker 8: I tried to put my EarPods in and it was
[1:56:42] Speaker 8: like it wouldn't let me talk.
[1:56:43] Speaker 1: Sorry, Yeah, I see that. Let's see if this works.
[1:56:53] Speaker 1: Can you still hear me. I can hear you. Can
[1:57:01] Speaker 1: you hear me?
[1:57:04] Speaker 2: Hear me?
[1:57:04] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[1:57:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, right when you hear when you turn the
[1:57:10] Speaker 1: volume up, I can hear me too. Because it feeds
[1:57:12] Speaker 1: back into your microphone. Microphone, you might have to plug
[1:57:23] Speaker 1: your ear pods back in. Friend, do you hear me?
[1:57:28] Speaker 1: I can? I can hear you the whole time. I
[1:57:31] Speaker 1: think it's working right now. Don't don't touch anything. Good
[1:57:36] Speaker 1: to go, all right, Okay, so your name is Joe?
[1:57:39] Speaker 1: Is that right?
[1:57:42] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[1:57:43] Speaker 1: I just listen.
[1:57:46] Speaker 4: I joined like.
[1:57:47] Speaker 2: A little earlier.
[1:57:48] Speaker 10: I have to go to bed soon, so I just
[1:57:51] Speaker 10: kind of wouldn't make this like a short little thing
[1:57:54] Speaker 10: if we could.
[1:57:58] Speaker 1: Sure, but uh so, or I think.
[1:58:05] Speaker 2: I've read that you said.
[1:58:09] Speaker 1: Sit on your last show. Your connection is breaking up
[1:58:13] Speaker 1: a little bit. Do you have access to Wi Fi? Y?
[1:58:22] Speaker 10: Like, my phone's like freaking broken. I can't even. I
[1:58:25] Speaker 10: don't think we're gonna have a great conversation.
[1:58:28] Speaker 1: I can. I can hear right now. Just trying to move,
[1:58:31] Speaker 1: you know, race serve race time. All right, Well listen, Joe,
[1:58:35] Speaker 1: come back anytime. Okay, all right, all right, cheers, all right,
[1:58:41] Speaker 1: Well that was unfortunate. Joe sounded like a nice kid,
[1:58:45] Speaker 1: he did. All right, Okay, all right, I'm gonna get
[1:58:53] Speaker 1: Chevanna in the guest box. But Shavanna, you're whatever technology
[1:58:58] Speaker 1: you're using, it's back for the audio directly into your
[1:59:01] Speaker 1: speakers or your microphone super loud. I'm gonna ask you
[1:59:07] Speaker 1: to use your ear piece. It shows that you haven't
[1:59:09] Speaker 1: earpiece plugged in, but you didn't select it when you
[1:59:12] Speaker 1: came into the room. Well, so we'll see if this
[1:59:14] Speaker 1: is any better.
[1:59:16] Speaker 3: Better?
[1:59:17] Speaker 2: Right?
[1:59:17] Speaker 3: Hello?
[1:59:18] Speaker 2: Is that better?
[1:59:19] Speaker 1: Let's see?
[1:59:20] Speaker 3: Well?
[1:59:20] Speaker 1: I can hear you, well, I can. I can hear
[1:59:23] Speaker 1: me still, I can hear it.
[1:59:25] Speaker 11: Still, give me, give me just two seven?
[1:59:29] Speaker 1: Yeah? Can you put your headphones? Can you put your
[1:59:31] Speaker 1: headphones on?
[1:59:33] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[1:59:33] Speaker 11: Just give me a minute. But my point, my point
[1:59:37] Speaker 11: was really pick anyway. So I'm a new Christian. I've
[1:59:41] Speaker 11: only been Christian for six months or so, and my logic, uh,
[1:59:46] Speaker 11: two X can't equal y. So there has to be
[1:59:50] Speaker 11: a why value to begin with in order for existence
[1:59:53] Speaker 11: too to be real. Right, that's why in the beginning
[1:59:59] Speaker 11: in the well God.
[2:00:01] Speaker 1: I don't believe that fake. I don't believe that we're fake. Also,
[2:00:07] Speaker 1: we're not gonna be able to have a conversation unless
[2:00:09] Speaker 1: you get your headphones working, because every time I talk,
[2:00:11] Speaker 1: it echoes back into your microphone. So if you can
[2:00:14] Speaker 1: get some headphones, that'd be great.
[2:00:24] Speaker 11: Yeah, I don't think that's gonna work, So I'll just
[2:00:26] Speaker 11: leave you with that point, and then if you want
[2:00:28] Speaker 11: to address that, I'll leave the chat. Then you can
[2:00:31] Speaker 11: get the next Guess.
[2:00:33] Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything.
[2:00:34] Speaker 2: I don't think there's anything to address.
[2:00:37] Speaker 1: Okay, thanks for stopping by. Yeah, I agree, we're not fake,
[2:00:41] Speaker 1: we are real. What Well did you hear what he
[2:00:45] Speaker 1: What was he doing?
[2:00:46] Speaker 2: Sarah?
[2:00:47] Speaker 9: Well, he said what Maybe I misheard him what he's
[2:00:51] Speaker 9: saying two X plus y like you have to like,
[2:00:56] Speaker 9: what's he talking?
[2:00:57] Speaker 6: Mouth like he to X? Then why and confused?
[2:01:04] Speaker 1: I was trying to do some weird mathematical proof for
[2:01:06] Speaker 1: why things exist. But I don't. We don't disagree that
[2:01:10] Speaker 1: things exist, do we. I'm pretty sure that we're on
[2:01:13] Speaker 1: the same page with that.
[2:01:15] Speaker 6: I wasn't.
[2:01:16] Speaker 9: It seemed to be many logical leaps that I did
[2:01:19] Speaker 9: not follow because yeah, that was not clear at all.
[2:01:23] Speaker 1: That's a weird one. Anyways, Uh do what can are you? Guys?
[2:01:26] Speaker 1: If you're watching on YouTube or Facebook, or twist. There's
[2:01:29] Speaker 1: a link in the description you can click to be
[2:01:32] Speaker 1: a guest. You can also you can also go to
[2:01:34] Speaker 1: tinyoril dot com forward slash dz guests and you can
[2:01:37] Speaker 1: join in the conversation that way. We are streaming to
[2:01:40] Speaker 1: my backup account on TikTok, but we cannot take guests
[2:01:42] Speaker 1: because I'm on a Mac rather than a Windows PC,
[2:01:46] Speaker 1: and I can't run TikTok studio or take guests because
[2:01:49] Speaker 1: I don't have to talk studios. So we're stuck only
[2:01:52] Speaker 1: using the third party link for tonight. Uh, but this
[2:01:55] Speaker 1: weekend I should be back on the normal setup. So uh,
[2:01:59] Speaker 1: Trump is got came back again, so we'll see if
[2:02:02] Speaker 1: this is any better. Hello, how you doing Trump?
[2:02:09] Speaker 2: I'm doing all right, awesome? And can you hear me?
[2:02:14] Speaker 6: Yeah?
[2:02:15] Speaker 1: I can, I can hear you?
[2:02:15] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[2:02:18] Speaker 1: Okay, So Trump, are you at least eighteen in? Are
[2:02:22] Speaker 1: you a believer in some kind of god? Of course
[2:02:29] Speaker 1: he's got three red bars. I would expect that for
[2:02:31] Speaker 1: someone who worships Trump. He's on Mega Mobile. Okay, Well,
[2:02:53] Speaker 1: apparently he didn't come to chat.
[2:02:58] Speaker 6: Hey, hooray.
[2:03:00] Speaker 1: All right, Well, because I'll just send you to another world.
[2:03:04] Speaker 1: Trump is not God. Apparently.
[2:03:07] Speaker 6: I'm shocked. Shocked.
[2:03:09] Speaker 1: I know, I really expected him to bring a rock
[2:03:13] Speaker 1: solid argument for why Trump is God. That's what I
[2:03:16] Speaker 1: thought was gonna happen. I'm baffled. Actually, all right, well,
[2:03:22] Speaker 1: we we ran out of guests. Let me grab a
[2:03:26] Speaker 1: couple of super chat excuse me, let me grab a
[2:03:28] Speaker 1: couple of super chats while we wait on another guest
[2:03:30] Speaker 1: to file in. If you want to guest up, just
[2:03:35] Speaker 1: go to TinyURL dot com fort slash Dzy guests and
[2:03:39] Speaker 1: we'll get you in the discussion. And we got a
[2:03:42] Speaker 1: super chat here from Bob. Bob says, is or is
[2:03:45] Speaker 1: not Doug a potato? Sorry, Doug is not a potato.
[2:03:49] Speaker 1: Doug is a rock, the rock of salvation. But he
[2:03:52] Speaker 1: looks like a potato, so I'm sure he'll forgive you
[2:03:56] Speaker 1: for that mistake. And still a tax a bit. Good
[2:03:59] Speaker 1: to see you tonight. Thank you for the supertest, says
[2:04:01] Speaker 1: Forty k subs equals more views equals more superchats equals
[2:04:06] Speaker 1: more reading equals longer live streams equals how the hell
[2:04:10] Speaker 1: can you keep this up for five hours? Props to
[2:04:12] Speaker 1: Justin for stamina, focus, and endurance. We appreciate you well
[2:04:15] Speaker 1: still at text a bit. I really appreciate that. And
[2:04:18] Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, it's just in my biology.
[2:04:22] Speaker 1: I don't know if it's ADHD or something else. Some
[2:04:26] Speaker 1: people just are high energy and high strung and can
[2:04:30] Speaker 1: carry on for long periods of time, and I happen
[2:04:34] Speaker 1: to be that person. I don't say it's the brag.
[2:04:37] Speaker 1: This is a weird anomaly that I have. My brain
[2:04:40] Speaker 1: is not right, is what I'm suggesting. And but the
[2:04:45] Speaker 1: downside of this is I can't sleep. I lay in
[2:04:47] Speaker 1: wake a bed and I can't sleep, and I ended
[2:04:49] Speaker 1: up like reading books or listening to videos or that
[2:04:52] Speaker 1: I never actually get any sleep. So there's two sides
[2:04:56] Speaker 1: to that coin. But Adele, thank you for the supertest,
[2:04:59] Speaker 1: says hubby user rock hard for Doug, Adele. Adele, are
[2:05:05] Speaker 1: you saying that your husband is rock hard for Doug.
[2:05:08] Speaker 1: The user that has been up in Okay, rock hard
[2:05:12] Speaker 1: for Doug is nerding out on the couch next to
[2:05:15] Speaker 1: me with his new Oxford NRSV, furiously highlighting passages as
[2:05:21] Speaker 1: you cook with them. But I, Adele, nothing makes me
[2:05:24] Speaker 1: more excited to hear that your hubby has got himself
[2:05:28] Speaker 1: a copy of the Oxford annotated study Bible hopefully the
[2:05:32] Speaker 1: fifth edition, and is learning to cook. I mean, I'm
[2:05:39] Speaker 1: just I can't be more of a proud father at
[2:05:44] Speaker 1: this point of the Little Doug's the little pebbles out
[2:05:49] Speaker 1: there that are learning to, you know, walk through the
[2:05:52] Speaker 1: pages of the Bible and cook. So we've got Luke
[2:05:57] Speaker 1: with us now, Luke, how you doing? Hello?
[2:06:01] Speaker 3: You hear me?
[2:06:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, I can hear you, Luke?
[2:06:04] Speaker 3: Okay?
[2:06:05] Speaker 1: So are you at least eighteen? And are you a believer? Yeah?
[2:06:11] Speaker 12: I'm thirty and yes I'm believer.
[2:06:14] Speaker 1: Okay. In which God do you believe in?
[2:06:17] Speaker 2: Christian?
[2:06:18] Speaker 1: Sure would be the most compelling evidence or argument for
[2:06:22] Speaker 1: the Christian God being real.
[2:06:25] Speaker 12: I think that pretty stark evidence is that throughout all
[2:06:29] Speaker 12: of our advancements and culture, science, and any other metrics
[2:06:36] Speaker 12: that you can name, for some reason, religious people still
[2:06:42] Speaker 12: have higher metrics in pretty much every standard than non
[2:06:47] Speaker 12: religious people. So following God.
[2:06:50] Speaker 1: I agree. Actually, like you have higher metrics in like
[2:06:53] Speaker 1: domestic abuse, higher metrics in OBCD.
[2:06:57] Speaker 12: No that's not wait I don't think that's true. No, No,
[2:06:59] Speaker 12: the obcits definitely not true.
[2:07:01] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Christians in America. Christians in America are way
[2:07:05] Speaker 1: more likely to be obese than non Christians. No, well,
[2:07:10] Speaker 1: practicing Christians, not just identifying the right. No, true Scotsman,
[2:07:15] Speaker 1: of course.
[2:07:15] Speaker 12: Yeah, well that Scotsman. If a little requirement to be
[2:07:19] Speaker 12: a Christian is something and you don't mean.
[2:07:21] Speaker 1: It, there's no requirement in Christianity to not eat.
[2:07:25] Speaker 12: Oh no, what has nothing to do with identifying being
[2:07:29] Speaker 12: identifying as Christians.
[2:07:31] Speaker 1: Being overweight doesn't make you not a Christian. No, I'm
[2:07:35] Speaker 1: saying identifying as Christian doesn't make you Christian. Okay, so
[2:07:38] Speaker 1: you think everyone who's overweight or fake Christians.
[2:07:41] Speaker 12: No, it's not what I said. I'm saying that you're
[2:07:43] Speaker 12: you're crazy.
[2:07:44] Speaker 1: Crazy slipper becomes the minute you start excluding people from
[2:07:49] Speaker 1: your religion on the fact the minute you start excluding
[2:07:53] Speaker 1: people from your religion based on the fact that they
[2:07:55] Speaker 1: don't fit into your metrics study of society is wild.
[2:08:00] Speaker 2: Me.
[2:08:00] Speaker 1: So I want to make sure we understand what's happened.
[2:08:02] Speaker 1: You came in saying that Christianity is true because like
[2:08:06] Speaker 1: religious people have better outcomes, and then the minute we
[2:08:09] Speaker 1: go to a couple of outcomes that aren't better, you
[2:08:11] Speaker 1: want to say, well, they're not really true Christians. Who
[2:08:15] Speaker 1: in the world gets to decide who.
[2:08:17] Speaker 12: Well, actually, I made a claim based on what I
[2:08:19] Speaker 12: said Christian, and you use your definition of Christians. So
[2:08:21] Speaker 12: if you want to be technical, you're not arguing based
[2:08:23] Speaker 12: on my eternal creek of critique of what a Christian is.
[2:08:26] Speaker 6: So wait, wait, can we define what a Christian.
[2:08:29] Speaker 12: Is then, Luke, Well, yeah, I mean it. I guess
[2:08:32] Speaker 12: it depends on the denomination. But to be a practicing Christian,
[2:08:36] Speaker 12: which within these studies, what they is what they say
[2:08:38] Speaker 12: is a practicing Christian is someone that actively participates in
[2:08:43] Speaker 12: religious service.
[2:08:44] Speaker 1: Shure, Okay, that means the Obese Christians count.
[2:08:49] Speaker 12: No, they don't. They don't actively. Can you give me
[2:08:51] Speaker 12: the study that shows that it's measuring all the people
[2:08:54] Speaker 12: that actively participate in religious service.
[2:08:56] Speaker 1: Give me study, Give me the study that shows a
[2:08:58] Speaker 1: beast Christians don't go to church.
[2:09:01] Speaker 12: That's what that's a strong man.
[2:09:03] Speaker 2: When did I say that.
[2:09:03] Speaker 1: It's not a strong man. You're suggesting that the.
[2:09:05] Speaker 12: Christians you have to prove your claim. I don't have
[2:09:07] Speaker 12: to disprove your claim.
[2:09:08] Speaker 1: To make sure you we're understanding what's happening here. You're
[2:09:11] Speaker 1: suggesting that Obese Christians aren't real Christians, and that they
[2:09:14] Speaker 1: don't go to church. So what I'm asking you is,
[2:09:18] Speaker 1: why would I believe that Obese Christians don't go to church?
[2:09:22] Speaker 12: Okay, you're lying, You're lying. Your claim was I'm study.
[2:09:25] Speaker 12: You're lying. You said that study. Okay, you are. I
[2:09:29] Speaker 12: never said that. I never said anything about aeste Christians
[2:09:31] Speaker 12: weren't Christians? You just I didn't say that. Ever, he
[2:09:34] Speaker 12: just lied.
[2:09:35] Speaker 2: Okay.
[2:09:35] Speaker 12: But your claim was that this study he's.
[2:09:37] Speaker 1: Gonna crash off hard, They're gonna be a good one.
[2:09:40] Speaker 12: No, I'm just better than you have this.
[2:09:42] Speaker 2: But okay, your.
[2:09:43] Speaker 12: Study, all right, Okay, we'll show me the study that
[2:09:46] Speaker 12: shows Christians the.
[2:09:51] Speaker 1: Unearned confidence.
[2:09:52] Speaker 6: Clarifying question here, Yeah, they're already muting Luke.
[2:09:59] Speaker 13: So when you you are making these claims about Christians
[2:10:03] Speaker 13: have better outcomes in all of the studies that you
[2:10:07] Speaker 13: are citing, how do you know that all of those
[2:10:11] Speaker 13: better outcomes exclusively include the Christians that are real and
[2:10:18] Speaker 13: all of the outcomes that you don't like seem to
[2:10:21] Speaker 13: somehow also be including Christians that are not real?
[2:10:27] Speaker 12: Because the study literally defines Christianity as prior practicing Christians
[2:10:32] Speaker 12: as this way that I'm defining it, Which.
[2:10:35] Speaker 6: Can you see cite me the author in the journal.
[2:10:38] Speaker 12: Wait, which study do you want?
[2:10:40] Speaker 3: What? What?
[2:10:41] Speaker 6: What outcomes?
[2:10:42] Speaker 3: Are you?
[2:10:42] Speaker 9: Well?
[2:10:42] Speaker 12: You guys, when I came in, so she's asked you, and.
[2:10:48] Speaker 1: So what she's asking for? Luke, you don't You don't
[2:10:50] Speaker 1: have to crash out. Just listen to what she's asking for.
[2:10:53] Speaker 1: She's suggesting that she'd like to hear the study that
[2:10:57] Speaker 1: specifically singled out Christians who actually do go to church
[2:11:01] Speaker 1: and are real Christians, not not the one about fake Christians.
[2:11:05] Speaker 1: You understand what she's.
[2:11:06] Speaker 12: Asking Practicing Christians? Yes, and I can give you a
[2:11:09] Speaker 12: bunch of subtract Christians. Yes, But don't don't deflect what
[2:11:13] Speaker 12: is and what is a practicing Christian? I already said
[2:11:18] Speaker 12: someone that actively participates in religious service.
[2:11:20] Speaker 1: How active?
[2:11:23] Speaker 12: I think it was like a couple of times a month.
[2:11:25] Speaker 12: I have to look exactly which which study?
[2:11:29] Speaker 13: Okay, and is it our definition of a real Christian
[2:11:32] Speaker 13: is someone who goes to church several times a month?
[2:11:37] Speaker 2: Yes?
[2:11:37] Speaker 12: And your your study and your definition of Christian is
[2:11:40] Speaker 12: just someone that checks a box that says the Christian.
[2:11:43] Speaker 12: Which one do you think is a better definition of Christian? Man?
[2:11:47] Speaker 2: Yours?
[2:11:48] Speaker 3: Well?
[2:11:49] Speaker 12: I mean you have on has to be better. So yeah,
[2:11:53] Speaker 12: but first wall I want before you guys deflect, I
[2:11:54] Speaker 12: want this. He just guy claim.
[2:11:58] Speaker 1: He's already feeling so pressured that he's already he's already
[2:12:03] Speaker 1: trying to burden shift. He's already trying to burden.
[2:12:06] Speaker 12: You know you made a claim.
[2:12:07] Speaker 2: You made it.
[2:12:08] Speaker 12: You're the one that made a claim. You said, practicing
[2:12:11] Speaker 12: Christians are moralbese in the US. I just stopped talking
[2:12:14] Speaker 12: for five seconds, and we'll respond to what you're what
[2:12:16] Speaker 12: you want, okay. So there's lots of studies on not
[2:12:20] Speaker 12: just Christians, but different types of Christians, and it turns
[2:12:23] Speaker 12: out that Christians are more likely to be involved in
[2:12:26] Speaker 12: domestic violence, Christians are more likely to be obese. These
[2:12:30] Speaker 12: are just two that I know off the top of
[2:12:32] Speaker 12: my head. One study with them by Predu University, and
[2:12:36] Speaker 12: another one you can find on the National Institute of Health.
[2:12:39] Speaker 12: I don't know if any of those are important right now,
[2:12:42] Speaker 12: and I'm going to tell you why none of those
[2:12:43] Speaker 12: things are important. I'm going to tell you why nothing
[2:12:45] Speaker 12: you said is important and why nothing we've said is
[2:12:48] Speaker 12: actually important, because none of those things has anything to
[2:12:51] Speaker 12: do with whether or not Christianity is true and so
[2:12:55] Speaker 12: I'd love to debate sometime. Maybe I'll do a topic
[2:12:57] Speaker 12: that like, you're better off to not be a Christian.
[2:13:00] Speaker 12: But that's not the topic.
[2:13:01] Speaker 1: The topic is whether or not your God even exists?
[2:13:05] Speaker 1: So did you want to talk about that? I guess
[2:13:11] Speaker 1: he's not gonna want to. Oh sure, sorry, he's uh.
[2:13:19] Speaker 1: I apologize he's muted.
[2:13:21] Speaker 12: I mute because they can't debate.
[2:13:24] Speaker 1: No, I was muted because you can't shut up. So
[2:13:28] Speaker 1: we'll try this again. Did you did you want? Just
[2:13:32] Speaker 1: so you know, Luke, when you're muted, no one can
[2:13:34] Speaker 1: hear you. And right now on the top of your
[2:13:36] Speaker 1: screen it should show that you're muted. So what I
[2:13:40] Speaker 1: want to do is, actually I have a conversation. Do
[2:13:43] Speaker 1: you want to have a conversation? If you want to
[2:13:44] Speaker 1: have a conversation, So he just came to cry, So, Luke,
[2:13:48] Speaker 1: I don't know if you know how this works, but like,
[2:13:50] Speaker 1: if I unmute you and like ask you a question,
[2:13:54] Speaker 1: just rambling on and complaining is a good guarantee that
[2:13:57] Speaker 1: you're going to get muted again right away. So what
[2:14:00] Speaker 1: I want to do is actually have a conversation about
[2:14:03] Speaker 1: whether or not you're God us.
[2:14:04] Speaker 12: I want to have a conversation. Then why are you muting.
[2:14:07] Speaker 1: Because you don't stop talking. So, Luke, the way conversations
[2:14:13] Speaker 1: work is you don't have to talk over the person talking,
[2:14:16] Speaker 1: which is why you're getting muted. By the way, the
[2:14:18] Speaker 1: reason why you're getting muted, and I didn't mute anybody
[2:14:21] Speaker 1: else prior to you. Notice I've been live for like
[2:14:24] Speaker 1: three hours. You're the first person that got muted. And
[2:14:27] Speaker 1: the reason why you got muted is because you're not
[2:14:30] Speaker 1: capable of having a conversation. So we'll try this again.
[2:14:33] Speaker 1: I'm going to unmute you, but I promise you every
[2:14:36] Speaker 1: time you overtalk us, I'll meet you again. Do you
[2:14:39] Speaker 1: do you understand the problem now? Yeah?
[2:14:41] Speaker 12: I never over talked to you. I'm Lily in the
[2:14:43] Speaker 12: middle of the sentence and you mute me.
[2:14:44] Speaker 1: You literally, you literally have been doing it for the
[2:14:47] Speaker 1: last five minutes, which is why you've been You're.
[2:14:49] Speaker 3: Doing it, Luke.
[2:14:50] Speaker 1: You're doing it right now for me. Luke, I was
[2:14:54] Speaker 1: in the middle of talking and you started talking. You're
[2:14:57] Speaker 1: proving my point for me. Thank you for telling everyone
[2:14:59] Speaker 1: here that you're a liar. Now, So the question that
[2:15:02] Speaker 1: I asked prior is do you want to have a
[2:15:04] Speaker 1: conversation about whether or not your God is real.
[2:15:08] Speaker 12: Yeah, I think that the showing evidence, that showing evidence
[2:15:12] Speaker 12: that the outcomes are better is good evidence that no
[2:15:15] Speaker 12: it's not. Okay, well that's your opinion, So why are
[2:15:18] Speaker 12: you just gonna mute me? Because I'm giving a argument.
[2:15:20] Speaker 1: It is It is my opinion, and it's not an
[2:15:22] Speaker 1: argument for you God being real because the same thing
[2:15:23] Speaker 1: would be true for Buddhists, the same thing would be
[2:15:26] Speaker 1: true for people who practice all kinds of other religions.
[2:15:29] Speaker 1: So the well imaginary and Luke, you've done. By the fucker,
[2:15:34] Speaker 1: I'm talking right now. I told you to stop over
[2:15:36] Speaker 1: talking me, or I wouldn't have to mute you. This
[2:15:38] Speaker 1: is why you keep getting muted, because you have no
[2:15:41] Speaker 1: impulse control because you're a Christian and Christians are taught
[2:15:46] Speaker 1: that they're better than everyone else, and you can just
[2:15:48] Speaker 1: overtalk people who disagree with you. But doesn't work that
[2:15:50] Speaker 1: way here. So what I'm trying to say is that
[2:15:54] Speaker 1: the so called benefits that you think Christianity has exists
[2:15:58] Speaker 1: in the other religions, like religious people overall, not all religions,
[2:16:03] Speaker 1: but religious people overall exhibit particular benefits say, with the
[2:16:09] Speaker 1: exception of a like is Islam doesn't provide the same
[2:16:12] Speaker 1: benefits overall as the other religions. So it's not actually
[2:16:16] Speaker 1: a good argument for Christianity being true. Alls it would
[2:16:20] Speaker 1: be is an argument for why there's benefits the believing
[2:16:23] Speaker 1: in particular religions and not in any one particular religion. Well, no,
[2:16:30] Speaker 1: because either way this gives more benefits than non religious Okay,
[2:16:35] Speaker 1: so what you're saying is you don't have a real
[2:16:37] Speaker 1: argument for why your God is real. I don't want
[2:16:44] Speaker 1: to mute you. That's my point, Luke. I don't want
[2:16:47] Speaker 1: to mute you whatsoever I have to mute you in
[2:16:50] Speaker 1: order for me to talk. I don't want to mute you.
[2:16:53] Speaker 1: What I want for you to do is have a
[2:16:54] Speaker 1: conversation with me that doesn't include you getting muted. But
[2:16:58] Speaker 1: I don't think that you're actually capable of doing that.
[2:17:01] Speaker 12: So the point that talk over me when I talk,
[2:17:03] Speaker 12: and it's okay, I'm.
[2:17:05] Speaker 1: Not talking over you when you talk. I'm talking, and
[2:17:09] Speaker 1: in the middle of my talking you talk over me,
[2:17:12] Speaker 1: and then I keep talking, and then you think that's
[2:17:15] Speaker 1: me talking over you. But that's not me talking over you.
[2:17:18] Speaker 1: That's me continually saying, continuing to say what I was
[2:17:21] Speaker 1: already saying while you were rudely over talking me. So
[2:17:27] Speaker 1: what I was saying before is that just having a
[2:17:31] Speaker 1: religion can increase like feelings of well being. It could
[2:17:35] Speaker 1: do all kinds of things for you. These are more
[2:17:37] Speaker 1: or less placebo effects, but they're true of other religions.
[2:17:41] Speaker 1: Christianity is not the only religion where people have perceived benefits.
[2:17:45] Speaker 1: If they believe in the religion, that doesn't mean that
[2:17:48] Speaker 1: the religion is true. I'm asking for like an actual
[2:17:51] Speaker 1: argument for why, like your God exists, not for whether
[2:17:54] Speaker 1: or not you think believing it it provides benefits.
[2:17:58] Speaker 2: I mean that that would be evident of it.
[2:18:01] Speaker 12: And also there's specific there's specific benefits that are based
[2:18:05] Speaker 12: on Christianity alone.
[2:18:07] Speaker 2: There actually is.
[2:18:08] Speaker 12: I already know you made a question ask for a source.
[2:18:10] Speaker 12: So you try to deflect because you lied, But no,
[2:18:13] Speaker 12: I didn't.
[2:18:14] Speaker 2: If you this.
[2:18:16] Speaker 12: Christians are more are moral beasts? You lied about that.
[2:18:18] Speaker 1: I didn't say there were moral beasts. Oh oh, moral
[2:18:21] Speaker 1: moral obese. Yeah. No, Purdue University did the study.
[2:18:24] Speaker 12: Yeah, you said no practicing, you said practice Christians, Yeah,
[2:18:26] Speaker 12: study Purdue.
[2:18:28] Speaker 1: Purdue University did the study.
[2:18:30] Speaker 12: Yeah didn't say practicing Christian I looked it up.
[2:18:32] Speaker 2: You lied.
[2:18:33] Speaker 1: Oh which one the produced study?
[2:18:35] Speaker 2: You said?
[2:18:36] Speaker 12: You said it said practicing Christians. It didn't say it
[2:18:38] Speaker 12: said people that identify as Christians, your liar.
[2:18:40] Speaker 1: Oh, okay, because all Christians who identify as Christians.
[2:18:44] Speaker 12: This is why, this is why you need religion, because
[2:18:46] Speaker 12: you end up turning into you and lying on the internet.
[2:18:48] Speaker 1: And it's okay, imagine, imagine, bit I don't have any morals.
[2:18:52] Speaker 12: A guy who believes it on the internet.
[2:18:54] Speaker 1: A guy who believes that God literally commits genocide, he does,
[2:19:00] Speaker 1: doesn't have any morals.
[2:19:02] Speaker 12: Yeah, and and somehow following this God gives you better outcomes,
[2:19:06] Speaker 12: makes you better like like it doesn't commit crime.
[2:19:09] Speaker 1: Doesn't mean so the the name of the study literally
[2:19:14] Speaker 1: says firm believers more likely to be flabby. So do
[2:19:18] Speaker 1: you think that firm believers in Christianity are likely to
[2:19:21] Speaker 1: go to church or not?
[2:19:23] Speaker 12: That's not what you said.
[2:19:24] Speaker 1: What's what's a what's a firm believer?
[2:19:28] Speaker 3: What?
[2:19:29] Speaker 1: What's a firm believer?
[2:19:30] Speaker 12: You tell me you're the one that brought up the study.
[2:19:33] Speaker 12: I'm asking you, you said, you know you're saying I'm
[2:19:37] Speaker 12: asking you based on what the studies supposed to know,
[2:19:40] Speaker 12: what their metrics are.
[2:19:42] Speaker 1: Okay, just just pay attention. What is a firm believer
[2:19:47] Speaker 1: in a religion?
[2:19:51] Speaker 12: It could mean anything. It's literally subjective. Firm could mean anything.
[2:19:54] Speaker 12: It's a subjective term firm.
[2:19:56] Speaker 1: Okay, So someone who's so, somebody who's a firm believer
[2:19:59] Speaker 1: in Christianity, are they likely to go to church or not?
[2:20:04] Speaker 12: You told me this is your claim.
[2:20:05] Speaker 1: I don't.
[2:20:06] Speaker 2: I don't know.
[2:20:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say so, yeah, i'd say that. You
[2:20:11] Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I'm saying that somebody who's a
[2:20:13] Speaker 1: firm believer in religion is someone who's going to practice
[2:20:16] Speaker 1: the religion.
[2:20:18] Speaker 12: Based on who's metric of what firm means.
[2:20:21] Speaker 1: Based on the definition of the firm meaning strong.
[2:20:26] Speaker 12: Can you prove it? Are you just speculating that's just
[2:20:29] Speaker 12: what words mean? So you're just speculating that they they're
[2:20:33] Speaker 12: they're only uh measuring people that go to church regularly.
[2:20:36] Speaker 12: Are you're speculating that?
[2:20:37] Speaker 8: No?
[2:20:37] Speaker 1: I didn't say that at all. No, I've said people
[2:20:39] Speaker 1: who are firm believers in religion are likely to practice
[2:20:42] Speaker 1: the religion.
[2:20:45] Speaker 12: I mean that's not even true.
[2:20:47] Speaker 2: I don't I don't.
[2:20:47] Speaker 12: Can you prove that? Like, I don't understand why you
[2:20:49] Speaker 12: keep making this assertion without proof.
[2:20:51] Speaker 1: It's not an assertion. This is how words work. Words
[2:20:53] Speaker 1: have definitions.
[2:20:54] Speaker 12: Okay, what's the definition of firm?
[2:20:56] Speaker 1: I just told you strong? It's okay if you weren't
[2:20:59] Speaker 1: listening to the first time.
[2:21:00] Speaker 12: Wrong, could could strong religion? It could could a Christians
[2:21:04] Speaker 12: denomination say you don't.
[2:21:05] Speaker 2: Have to go to church.
[2:21:07] Speaker 1: I don't know a single Christian domination that encourages to
[2:21:10] Speaker 1: not go to church.
[2:21:11] Speaker 12: Yeah, there's plenty of Christian denominations that say that you
[2:21:13] Speaker 12: don't have to go to church at all.
[2:21:14] Speaker 1: That's what I said. What I said, That's not what
[2:21:18] Speaker 1: I said, Luke, listen, I said, I don't know. I know, Luke,
[2:21:22] Speaker 1: listen to my words and stop being stop being a
[2:21:24] Speaker 1: little a little coward and trying to overtalk me and
[2:21:27] Speaker 1: make straw men. I said, I don't know a single
[2:21:30] Speaker 1: church that encourage you to not go That's what I said.
[2:21:33] Speaker 12: Okay, did I did I make that argument?
[2:21:36] Speaker 6: No?
[2:21:36] Speaker 1: You tried to straw man what I just said because
[2:21:38] Speaker 1: you don't actually know. You said that you don't actually
[2:21:41] Speaker 1: know how to listen. That's your problem, Like you're not
[2:21:44] Speaker 1: actually listening to the words coming out of my mouth.
[2:21:47] Speaker 1: You just want to keep talking. So, so the fact
[2:21:50] Speaker 1: of the matter is being a firm believer in religion
[2:21:54] Speaker 1: essentially would come down to being an actual member of
[2:21:58] Speaker 1: that religion, actual practicing members of the religion.
[2:22:01] Speaker 12: No, that's can you prove that? Like, why do you
[2:22:03] Speaker 12: keep the suggesting that that's just what that's what words mean. No,
[2:22:07] Speaker 12: that's not what firm belief. Can you prove that's what
[2:22:08] Speaker 12: firm believer means?
[2:22:09] Speaker 1: Is just firm, firm believer. It means that you're you're
[2:22:12] Speaker 1: strongly in that belief.
[2:22:14] Speaker 12: Yes, okay, can you prove it means practicing like they
[2:22:17] Speaker 12: went to church? Can you prove that? Why do you
[2:22:19] Speaker 12: keep assuming that?
[2:22:20] Speaker 1: I'm not assuming, I'm saying a firm believer, A firm
[2:22:24] Speaker 1: believer in a religion is a person who actually practices
[2:22:26] Speaker 1: a religion. You couldn't classify as somebody as being firm
[2:22:30] Speaker 1: in their belief as a Christian.
[2:22:32] Speaker 12: If I give you a poll and said, can you
[2:22:33] Speaker 12: just you couldn't.
[2:22:34] Speaker 1: Describe somebody as being firm in their Christian faith if
[2:22:38] Speaker 1: they weren't actually a practicing Christian?
[2:22:41] Speaker 2: Could you?
[2:22:42] Speaker 12: If it's a poll that says are you Are you
[2:22:44] Speaker 12: firm in your belief and someone says yes, then yes
[2:22:47] Speaker 12: you could. Why why do you Why wouldn't you be able.
[2:22:49] Speaker 1: To Yeah, if you're a firm in your belief as
[2:22:51] Speaker 1: a Christian, are you going to do what you're supposed
[2:22:53] Speaker 1: to do as a Christian? Are you going to go
[2:22:54] Speaker 1: to churches?
[2:22:55] Speaker 12: Did Christians say that you have to go to church?
[2:22:57] Speaker 2: It's all Christians.
[2:22:58] Speaker 1: I didn't say anything about having to go to church.
[2:23:01] Speaker 1: I didn't say that to go to church.
[2:23:03] Speaker 12: You said it's as I didn't.
[2:23:07] Speaker 1: I didn't say that. I didn't say anything about that.
[2:23:10] Speaker 12: Can you answer my question? Can you be a Christian?
[2:23:12] Speaker 1: This guy? This guy incapable of listening.
[2:23:18] Speaker 2: To church?
[2:23:19] Speaker 6: No?
[2:23:19] Speaker 1: I don't think you can call yourself a firm Christian
[2:23:22] Speaker 1: and then not go to church.
[2:23:23] Speaker 12: Okay, So do you don't think there's a denominations that
[2:23:26] Speaker 12: that say that you can be a firm Christian and
[2:23:28] Speaker 12: not go to church?
[2:23:29] Speaker 1: Again, I said, I don't know of a single denomination
[2:23:32] Speaker 1: that encourages you to not go to church.
[2:23:35] Speaker 12: That's a different. I'm don't to ask you that. Why
[2:23:37] Speaker 12: are you answering question? Didn't ask I'm telling you I'm
[2:23:40] Speaker 12: telling you what.
[2:23:41] Speaker 1: I'm telling you what ur I'm telling you what I said,
[2:23:45] Speaker 1: and you want to reframe it into something else because
[2:23:47] Speaker 1: you don't like what I said. You want to Christian.
[2:23:52] Speaker 1: You want to continually argue against straw men, rather than
[2:23:55] Speaker 1: argue against the words that are actually coming out of
[2:23:58] Speaker 1: my mouth. I would rather you argue. Yeah, Hi, Hi, sir, I'm.
[2:24:07] Speaker 6: Gonna head out.
[2:24:08] Speaker 1: I don't blame you.
[2:24:09] Speaker 6: Can handle this guy. It's unbelievably frustrating to listen to it.
[2:24:14] Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't blame you. He's insufferable. All right, Sarah
[2:24:18] Speaker 1: gets the best. It's good to see you, guys. Make
[2:24:21] Speaker 1: sure you're following leaving face. She's got a great channel.
[2:24:26] Speaker 1: All right, I have a good one, w Sarah. All right,
[2:24:31] Speaker 1: let me get Luke centered on the screen. There, get
[2:24:33] Speaker 1: Luke or centered in the in the in the box,
[2:24:36] Speaker 1: all right, all right, back at it. Okay, So Luke,
[2:24:41] Speaker 1: you're gonna wait, actually is Protestant. Look, I don't know
[2:24:45] Speaker 1: why you think that just endlessly talking is ever going
[2:24:48] Speaker 1: to be like a way to have a conversation. Just
[2:24:52] Speaker 1: pause for five seconds, let's recenter the conversation. There's no
[2:24:56] Speaker 1: point in us wasting the next half hour. If all
[2:24:59] Speaker 1: we're gonna do for talk to each other, I mean,
[2:25:01] Speaker 1: it's not gonna help you, it's not gonna help me.
[2:25:03] Speaker 1: No one's gonna actually enjoy the conversation. So back at
[2:25:08] Speaker 1: the bar. You came up here saying that being Christian
[2:25:12] Speaker 1: provides benefits, and that proves that it's true. I disagree.
[2:25:16] Speaker 1: I don't think even if Christianity provided some sort of
[2:25:20] Speaker 1: feelings or benefits or things like that, that makes the
[2:25:23] Speaker 1: religion or the gods of that religion true. So do
[2:25:27] Speaker 1: you have do you have anything besides that? Or is
[2:25:30] Speaker 1: that all you had?
[2:25:31] Speaker 12: But how if I don't know, it doesn't really make it.
[2:25:34] Speaker 12: It's not a good argument.
[2:25:35] Speaker 1: It is a good argument, Luke, because I already, Luke,
[2:25:40] Speaker 1: I already explained to you twice why this is a
[2:25:42] Speaker 1: bullshit argument, and you weren't listening the first two times,
[2:25:45] Speaker 1: just like you're not gonna listen to the third time.
[2:25:47] Speaker 1: Because other religions have similar benefits. When you pull people
[2:25:54] Speaker 1: from other religions, it turns out that they have roughly
[2:25:58] Speaker 1: similar benefits to people in Christianity claim to have. They
[2:26:02] Speaker 1: live longer, they're happier, they have more kids, they have
[2:26:06] Speaker 1: longer marriages, so on and so forth. No one really cares.
[2:26:10] Speaker 1: These are not benefits that are unique to Christianity. For
[2:26:13] Speaker 1: this argument to make sense, you would have to somehow
[2:26:17] Speaker 1: make it so that it was only true of Christians
[2:26:20] Speaker 1: and it was not true of any other religion. But
[2:26:23] Speaker 1: even if, even if you could do that, which you can't,
[2:26:26] Speaker 1: it still wouldn't make Christianity true. No amount of perceived
[2:26:31] Speaker 1: social benefits makes Christianity true. You need something other than
[2:26:36] Speaker 1: it provides benefits for an argument. So so I'll ask
[2:26:40] Speaker 1: you for the third time. Is this the only evidence
[2:26:44] Speaker 1: you have? Keep in mind that, keep in mind, keep
[2:26:47] Speaker 1: it respond without you immuting me. Keep in mind that
[2:26:51] Speaker 1: the answer is a yes or no.
[2:26:54] Speaker 12: Okay, there's there's benefits that are Christianity.
[2:26:57] Speaker 1: We'll try this again. So, Luke, I am ask you
[2:27:00] Speaker 1: yes or no question, still waiting for the yes or no.
[2:27:03] Speaker 1: I asked you three times. My question is a very
[2:27:06] Speaker 1: simple one. Is this the only argument you have? Or
[2:27:10] Speaker 1: did you have another argument?
[2:27:13] Speaker 3: Dude?
[2:27:13] Speaker 12: Can you guys answer one question?
[2:27:14] Speaker 1: Please? Nope, not until you answer my question. I don't
[2:27:17] Speaker 1: know if you know this, but you're in my live stream,
[2:27:20] Speaker 1: you're in my house. You gotta play by my rules.
[2:27:23] Speaker 1: Easy question. All it takes say is yes or no.
[2:27:25] Speaker 1: I guarantee if there was a Muslim in the box,
[2:27:27] Speaker 1: they could say yes or no. So easy question. Is
[2:27:30] Speaker 1: this the only argument that you have? Yes or no? Yes?
[2:27:34] Speaker 3: I get it.
[2:27:34] Speaker 12: You have to be in charge because you're losing the debate.
[2:27:36] Speaker 2: I gees.
[2:27:37] Speaker 1: Okay, so you're not capable of answering. I'll give you.
[2:27:39] Speaker 1: I'll give you a little bit of mercy and let
[2:27:41] Speaker 1: you answer one more time. Is this the only argument
[2:27:44] Speaker 1: that you have? Yes or no?
[2:27:47] Speaker 3: Yes?
[2:27:47] Speaker 12: I have other arguments, Okay.
[2:27:49] Speaker 1: I would love to hear an argument that is based
[2:27:52] Speaker 1: on facts and not on perceived benefit. That luke, luke.
[2:27:57] Speaker 1: When I ask simple yes or no questions, alls I
[2:28:00] Speaker 1: need is say yes or no. You don't need to
[2:28:02] Speaker 1: say yes or no and then to go trail off
[2:28:04] Speaker 1: into some meta narrative meda commentary. Nobody gives a shit.
[2:28:09] Speaker 1: No one cares about your Meda commentary. So what I
[2:28:12] Speaker 1: want to know is, would you like to discuss an
[2:28:16] Speaker 1: evidence or an argument for your God, there's eleven hundred
[2:28:21] Speaker 1: people watching you right now. Behave like a child. If
[2:28:25] Speaker 1: you don't think no one watches my channel you can
[2:28:27] Speaker 1: go host your own channel and see who the fuck
[2:28:29] Speaker 1: shows up. So, Luke, would you like to discuss an
[2:28:33] Speaker 1: actual evidence or an actual argument for your God other than.
[2:28:38] Speaker 12: It provides any argument you don't like?
[2:28:40] Speaker 1: Is other than evidence or an argument other than it
[2:28:44] Speaker 1: provides some sort of social benefit? Do you have anything beside?
[2:28:48] Speaker 12: Kind of religion is social benefit?
[2:28:51] Speaker 1: Yes?
[2:28:52] Speaker 9: It is.
[2:28:52] Speaker 12: It's literally God is saying this will give you the best,
[2:28:55] Speaker 12: the best life.
[2:28:56] Speaker 3: It will.
[2:28:57] Speaker 12: It's the whole point of the religion. Well, the proof
[2:28:59] Speaker 12: that it does the person does, I can give you.
[2:29:03] Speaker 1: No, it doesn't, and it doesn't. It doesn't matter. It
[2:29:07] Speaker 1: doesn't know. They don't.
[2:29:09] Speaker 12: Yeah they do. You're like forty years old and you're
[2:29:12] Speaker 12: on TikTok meeting people like your life sucks.
[2:29:15] Speaker 1: I'm on YouTube and I have an actual career, and
[2:29:19] Speaker 1: I do this to educate little bit I'm sure I
[2:29:22] Speaker 1: do this to educate little clowns like you.
[2:29:24] Speaker 12: No, well, then why do you have to mute? Why
[2:29:25] Speaker 12: can't you actually debate?
[2:29:27] Speaker 1: Because you're a jackass that won't actually engage in dialogue,
[2:29:30] Speaker 1: because because you don't like, because you can't shut up
[2:29:33] Speaker 1: long enough to have a conversation. The reason you get muted,
[2:29:37] Speaker 1: and I'm getting I'm getting the hint that this happens
[2:29:39] Speaker 1: to you a lot. The reason why you get muted
[2:29:42] Speaker 1: is because you're a piece of ship that can't have
[2:29:44] Speaker 1: an actual conversation. So I want to actually give you
[2:29:47] Speaker 1: the opportunity to lay down an argument for why your
[2:29:50] Speaker 1: God is real. But it sounds like you're not going
[2:29:52] Speaker 1: to actually do that. What it sounds like is that
[2:29:54] Speaker 1: you're going to keep going back to this bad argument
[2:29:57] Speaker 1: because you don't have anything else. So is this all
[2:30:00] Speaker 1: you have? Do you have an argument other than it
[2:30:03] Speaker 1: provides benefits? What do you think the point of religion is?
[2:30:09] Speaker 1: So so you actually don't have an argument? But this
[2:30:12] Speaker 1: is Luke, I don't like, I don't care, Luke. I'm
[2:30:18] Speaker 1: muting you because you're an insufferable jackass that can't stop talking.
[2:30:23] Speaker 1: You're the reason you're getting muted. You're the only one
[2:30:26] Speaker 1: that's got muted all fucking night. You're the one. You're
[2:30:31] Speaker 1: the reason. You're the reason you're muted. Right now, learn
[2:30:34] Speaker 1: from it. Take this experience and learn from it. This
[2:30:37] Speaker 1: is not how to have an adult conversation. This is
[2:30:40] Speaker 1: how to be an insufferable asshole. So what I want
[2:30:46] Speaker 1: to do is have a conversation about something of substance.
[2:30:50] Speaker 1: I don't care if you think your religion has benefits.
[2:30:53] Speaker 1: I don't care if you think that it provides something
[2:30:56] Speaker 1: for you and you think that I need it and
[2:30:58] Speaker 1: I don't have it. I want to know about whether
[2:31:01] Speaker 1: or not it's true, right, So do you have an
[2:31:05] Speaker 1: argument for whether or not it's actually true?
[2:31:07] Speaker 12: Yes, it's evidence. I don't know.
[2:31:12] Speaker 1: Okay, so you're incapable of having Luke, I'm gonna give
[2:31:16] Speaker 1: you one last chance, and if you can't engage, then
[2:31:20] Speaker 1: I have to move on to an actual adult So
[2:31:23] Speaker 1: this is your last chance. This is all you got.
[2:31:25] Speaker 1: I would love for you to be up here and
[2:31:28] Speaker 1: have an actual conversations with me. But what we're not
[2:31:31] Speaker 1: gonna do is just overtalk each other for the next
[2:31:34] Speaker 1: half hour. I want to have a conversation on actual
[2:31:37] Speaker 1: substance and evidence. Would you like to have Okay, so
[2:31:42] Speaker 1: you're not ready, all right, Well come back like when
[2:31:45] Speaker 1: you grow a little chest hair and your testicles descend
[2:31:48] Speaker 1: and you're actually capable of having an adult conversation, Because
[2:31:52] Speaker 1: clearly you're not capable of doing it. And I can't
[2:31:55] Speaker 1: wait for Luke to start his own debate channel and
[2:31:57] Speaker 1: see how big, how big of a crowd he can draw.
[2:32:01] Speaker 1: I can't wait. It should be fun. I haven't seen
[2:32:03] Speaker 1: a whole lot of apologist debate channels draw a crowd.
[2:32:09] Speaker 1: Oh well, maybe little boy will figured it out. All right, guys,
[2:32:13] Speaker 1: let me grab some super chests and we'll get on
[2:32:14] Speaker 1: to our next guest. Let's see, we've got another one
[2:32:18] Speaker 1: from Johannah. Thank you so much. Johannah says all religion
[2:32:22] Speaker 1: is primitive. Get with the times. Yeah, I actually agree,
[2:32:26] Speaker 1: religion are pretty much primitive, and the New age stuff
[2:32:30] Speaker 1: isn't much better. To be honest, I don't think jam
[2:32:33] Speaker 1: and Jay though, says Doug is bravest because no one
[2:32:35] Speaker 1: is bolder. Hell yeah, no one's bolder than Doug. Never
[2:32:39] Speaker 1: take Doug for granted, guys, and Mike, thank you so
[2:32:42] Speaker 1: much for the super chest, says Wait, what bonapartists like
[2:32:45] Speaker 1: a Napoleon? Stand?
[2:32:47] Speaker 3: Wait? What?
[2:32:47] Speaker 1: Hold on? Did I miss something about Napoleon? Did I?
[2:32:52] Speaker 1: I apologize Mike if Napoleon came up in the conversation,
[2:32:56] Speaker 1: I haven't. I must have missed it. But Evan, thank
[2:32:59] Speaker 1: you for the super which says in Exos three it
[2:33:01] Speaker 1: says that the Angel of the Lord was in the
[2:33:03] Speaker 1: burning bush. Then it switches to being God in the
[2:33:06] Speaker 1: next verse. What's that all about. So this happens a
[2:33:08] Speaker 1: couple of times. That happens in Genesis twenty two as well.
[2:33:12] Speaker 1: So a lot of scholars believe the reason why this
[2:33:15] Speaker 1: happens is because God, like in the olden days, would
[2:33:20] Speaker 1: interact with humanity, and this become kind of uncomfortable for
[2:33:26] Speaker 1: later people who felt like God was more transcendent and
[2:33:30] Speaker 1: shouldn't be interacting with mankind so much, and so they
[2:33:33] Speaker 1: created this Messenger of Yahweh. And you see a lot
[2:33:37] Speaker 1: of times where the Bible would the Bible would show
[2:33:42] Speaker 1: Yahweh interact with humanity, especially if it was unfavorable doing something,
[2:33:47] Speaker 1: you know, not so great, they would put the Angel
[2:33:50] Speaker 1: of the Lord in there as a buffer, right. And
[2:33:52] Speaker 1: there's a little bit of proof for this in some
[2:33:54] Speaker 1: of the ancient manuscripts. We see in some really ancient
[2:33:56] Speaker 1: manuscripts where it says Yahweh instead of the Angel of Yahweh,
[2:33:59] Speaker 1: and and later manuscripts will say the Angel of Yahweh.
[2:34:03] Speaker 1: So it seems to be that this was a device. Now,
[2:34:06] Speaker 1: it's also true in the ancient world they had like
[2:34:08] Speaker 1: these divine emissaries where I could put my name my
[2:34:12] Speaker 1: signet on my messenger, and my messenger can go and
[2:34:16] Speaker 1: act in my behalf, and they would have to be
[2:34:19] Speaker 1: treated as though they were me. Like if I was
[2:34:22] Speaker 1: a king and I sent a divine emissary or I
[2:34:24] Speaker 1: sent an emissary in my place, they would have to
[2:34:27] Speaker 1: treat them with the same respect that they would have
[2:34:29] Speaker 1: treated me, because my name is in them, right, So
[2:34:32] Speaker 1: there's a little bit of that going on as well.
[2:34:35] Speaker 1: But I don't believe like Christians are going to go
[2:34:37] Speaker 1: to the Angel Lord passages and say it was Jesus
[2:34:40] Speaker 1: and try to turn it into some trinitarian nonsense. I
[2:34:42] Speaker 1: think that betrays most of history and what we know
[2:34:44] Speaker 1: about religions and the ancient world. And Sylla says, always
[2:34:48] Speaker 1: new crazy ways to say the same old things. Actually,
[2:34:51] Speaker 1: you're right, they never come up with anything new. And
[2:34:55] Speaker 1: the reason why Luke was so insistent not actually argue
[2:35:01] Speaker 1: on the topic is because the topic he was on
[2:35:04] Speaker 1: is like the newest whipping boy of the apologists, because
[2:35:07] Speaker 1: they know they can't prove their God is real, so
[2:35:09] Speaker 1: the only thing they can do is say, well, there's benefits,
[2:35:13] Speaker 1: So what about that, Because they've already lost the game.
[2:35:16] Speaker 1: They know it, they know they've lost the game. They've
[2:35:18] Speaker 1: lost it so bad that they're now going to alternative
[2:35:21] Speaker 1: arguments that are meaningless. But Frederick, thank you for the supertest,
[2:35:25] Speaker 1: says cherry pickers need to realize secular society influences their
[2:35:28] Speaker 1: role judgments more than the Bible. Actually, that's that is
[2:35:31] Speaker 1: the case, because they're picking and choosing the parts from
[2:35:33] Speaker 1: the Bible because of secular society. That's what they've done.
[2:35:38] Speaker 1: And rock hard for Doug, good to see you. I
[2:35:41] Speaker 1: hope you're enjoying the NRSV, says, just realize the moment
[2:35:44] Speaker 1: my eggshell cracked was during a Christian book on geology
[2:35:48] Speaker 1: regarding the Earth age and God creating Earth with an
[2:35:52] Speaker 1: apparent age. Literally Doug and sharing stone de converted me.
[2:35:58] Speaker 1: Big win for geology. I appreciate are you sharing that
[2:36:00] Speaker 1: with me? And sat in the house going to see
[2:36:03] Speaker 1: a saint says I think Zeus is a perfect example
[2:36:05] Speaker 1: of a god that does something. He does a lot
[2:36:08] Speaker 1: of things. Actually, actually he does a lot of you know,
[2:36:14] Speaker 1: he you know, he he's doing some things, all right.
[2:36:19] Speaker 1: He was a he was a bad boy, and Chris
[2:36:23] Speaker 1: says three is a magic number. Schoolhouse Rock prophecy of
[2:36:26] Speaker 1: Doug praised Doug's solidity. Uh that is a good one.
[2:36:31] Speaker 2: Guys.
[2:36:31] Speaker 1: If you're my age, you know what school House Rock
[2:36:34] Speaker 1: is and you'll know, uh that that was a good reference.
[2:36:37] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Oh my gosh, sorry, I got backed
[2:36:42] Speaker 1: up on some of the super chats, guys. Space Lord says,
[2:36:46] Speaker 1: you're you're using human logic? Sorry, my bad. Where can
[2:36:49] Speaker 1: I find some jeepus logic? That's what you like. That's
[2:36:52] Speaker 1: how you know that the religion has got problems. They
[2:36:54] Speaker 1: have to invent new forms of logic to make sense
[2:36:57] Speaker 1: of it. And Vic says, you're doing doug work. Well,
[2:37:00] Speaker 1: thank you so much, Vick. I appreciate the support and
[2:37:02] Speaker 1: the super chat I really do. And with that, we're
[2:37:05] Speaker 1: going to get our next guest into the guest box
[2:37:10] Speaker 1: and we'll, you know, keep keep the show rolling. Guys.
[2:37:16] Speaker 1: All right, we've got with us. Jeanine, how are.
[2:37:20] Speaker 2: You doing, Jeanine?
[2:37:23] Speaker 1: Im day, Janine? Are you good to hear? Fantastic? Jeanine?
[2:37:30] Speaker 1: Are you a believer?
[2:37:32] Speaker 6: Okay, so no, I'm not not anymore. And that's thanks to.
[2:37:38] Speaker 1: You big w Jenne, So I.
[2:37:44] Speaker 7: Basically wants your thoughts on I am forty seven I
[2:37:51] Speaker 7: was a Joba's witness for forty seven years. There are
[2:37:56] Speaker 7: so many things that didn't make to me. I just
[2:38:00] Speaker 7: wanted your thoughts on where you saw or if you
[2:38:05] Speaker 7: have seen where they go so wrong, or like where
[2:38:10] Speaker 7: they mistranslate the Bible, or how they even come up.
[2:38:16] Speaker 7: Even though I was one for forty seven years, there's
[2:38:19] Speaker 7: things that still doesn't make sense to me, even though
[2:38:22] Speaker 7: I know I don't believe it anymore. It's I want
[2:38:31] Speaker 7: more proof because I'm the I'm in the mindset now
[2:38:34] Speaker 7: I don't believe the Bible and I don't believe there's God.
[2:38:39] Speaker 7: But I am looking for the contradictions. I mean, I've
[2:38:43] Speaker 7: seen plenty of them with you. I have like tons
[2:38:46] Speaker 7: of notes. But like one of the main things is
[2:38:53] Speaker 7: they come up with the name Jehovah.
[2:38:58] Speaker 2: Yeah, how we explain.
[2:39:01] Speaker 7: How they come up with that? I mean I have
[2:39:03] Speaker 7: heard how I do, but it still doesn't make sense
[2:39:06] Speaker 7: to me because.
[2:39:07] Speaker 6: I know it ain't right.
[2:39:10] Speaker 1: So there's there's a weird thing that happens in Exous
[2:39:17] Speaker 1: chapter six, which is what kind of leads them to
[2:39:21] Speaker 1: believes that the name of Yahweh is Jehovah. And I'll
[2:39:27] Speaker 1: put it on the screen for us real quick. So
[2:39:32] Speaker 1: you know when Moses talks to Yahweh and says, I
[2:39:34] Speaker 1: appeared to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as el should I
[2:39:37] Speaker 1: but by my name Yahweh, I did not make myself known.
[2:39:41] Speaker 1: Well Jehovah. Witnesses make a big deal out of this
[2:39:44] Speaker 1: because the Hebrew vowelpointing in the text could be read
[2:39:49] Speaker 1: as Jehovah or Jehovah in the original Hebrew, although there's
[2:39:54] Speaker 1: no good reason to believe that that was what they
[2:39:58] Speaker 1: wanted you to read. So in Exus six to two,
[2:40:02] Speaker 1: he says God spoke to Moses and said to him,
[2:40:07] Speaker 1: and then we get the beginning of it. He says,
[2:40:11] Speaker 1: ani Yehovah, and it could be pronounced differently. But right
[2:40:20] Speaker 1: here is the Jehovah. And there's a couple of things.
[2:40:26] Speaker 1: Though you might ask yourself, if his name is Yahweh,
[2:40:28] Speaker 1: why would it say Yohoa, why would we have Jehovah
[2:40:31] Speaker 1: in the text. Well, first of all, keep in mind
[2:40:36] Speaker 1: that this third letter here, the vov, is not pronounced
[2:40:42] Speaker 1: like a v that that'd be Yeho wah. It would
[2:40:46] Speaker 1: be how he pronounced that, So Jehovah not even there
[2:40:50] Speaker 1: to begin with. But the question would be why that
[2:40:54] Speaker 1: say Jehovah instead of Yahweh. And the reason is because
[2:41:00] Speaker 1: they did a number of things in the Massoretic texts
[2:41:03] Speaker 1: when they added the vowels, and sometimes they added vowel
[2:41:06] Speaker 1: pointers to Yahweh so that you would pronounce it yehoah
[2:41:13] Speaker 1: similar to a done so for a done means master right.
[2:41:22] Speaker 1: And so what they were doing was they were trying
[2:41:25] Speaker 1: to keep people from pronouncing the sacred name of Yahweh,
[2:41:29] Speaker 1: the same reason why the Greek septuagen says Lord instead
[2:41:33] Speaker 1: of Yahweh, the same reason why English Bibles say the
[2:41:37] Speaker 1: Lord instead of Yahweh. So they had creative methods of
[2:41:41] Speaker 1: getting you to read the name Yahweh but say add
[2:41:46] Speaker 1: on or add an I in your brain or with
[2:41:49] Speaker 1: your mouth when you read it. And the way that
[2:41:51] Speaker 1: they did that was they added the vowel pointers for
[2:41:53] Speaker 1: ad and I even though the actual name was Yahweh.
[2:41:57] Speaker 1: But the problem with ads is people came along later
[2:42:00] Speaker 1: they didn't know what the massive Redic scribes were up to,
[2:42:03] Speaker 1: and they said, oh, well, that's just Jehovah or Yehoah,
[2:42:09] Speaker 1: and they didn't know why those vowel pointers were there.
[2:42:12] Speaker 1: So the whole idea of the Jehovah witnesses is flawed
[2:42:16] Speaker 1: because they don't even know how to appropriately interpret the
[2:42:19] Speaker 1: name of God in the book.
[2:42:22] Speaker 7: Yeah, and then they took out the Lord and God
[2:42:25] Speaker 7: in their New World translation replaced them all with the
[2:42:30] Speaker 7: name Jehovah. Right, Okay, So I do know it's a cult.
[2:42:38] Speaker 7: What are your thoughts on that and proof of it?
[2:42:44] Speaker 7: Because I do know. I do know because I I
[2:42:46] Speaker 7: said I was in it for forty seven years. I
[2:42:50] Speaker 7: guess kind of what I'm looking for is obviously being
[2:42:54] Speaker 7: from there. I'm shuned and I have tried, just as
[2:43:01] Speaker 7: some family members where it's wrong where they're meth blood,
[2:43:08] Speaker 7: but it's just not going there.
[2:43:12] Speaker 1: Is that well, you know, So here's kind of where
[2:43:17] Speaker 1: I'm at with that kind of stuff. Like I never
[2:43:19] Speaker 1: convinced my friends and family that their religion is wrong.
[2:43:22] Speaker 1: I don't think family listens to family members on this
[2:43:25] Speaker 1: type of stuff. And there sometimes Jesus says things that
[2:43:30] Speaker 1: are good. For example, Jesus said that no prophet is
[2:43:33] Speaker 1: honored in his hometowns just a really good kind of
[2:43:37] Speaker 1: folks saying basically, because like the people you grew up with,
[2:43:41] Speaker 1: like they saw you pick your nose as a kid,
[2:43:43] Speaker 1: they knew that, like you, you know, you scratched your
[2:43:45] Speaker 1: butt at one time and didn't wash your hands, like,
[2:43:48] Speaker 1: they know all the worst stuff about you, right, So
[2:43:50] Speaker 1: they don't take you seriously when you're critiquing them on
[2:43:54] Speaker 1: the most important stuff like religion. So it's very difficult
[2:43:58] Speaker 1: to change the opinion of your friends and family members
[2:44:01] Speaker 1: on this type of stuff, which is why I don't
[2:44:02] Speaker 1: even try. Sometimes they'll come to me and ask me questions,
[2:44:05] Speaker 1: and then I can be like, oh, now that you ask,
[2:44:08] Speaker 1: let's go over let's dig into it. But outside of
[2:44:11] Speaker 1: them asking me questions, I don't even bother.
[2:44:15] Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, because there's been different things that I have
[2:44:19] Speaker 7: seen and I one time, I try to show my
[2:44:21] Speaker 7: father something and he's like, no, I don't want any
[2:44:24] Speaker 7: part of that, but there's proof. And then one last question,
[2:44:32] Speaker 7: I don't know how familiar you are, and I have
[2:44:34] Speaker 7: a feeling you are familiar, But have you seen parts
[2:44:41] Speaker 7: of the Bible with JW's that they have actually changed?
[2:44:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been so long though, So I studied them
[2:44:53] Speaker 1: back in two thousand and eight because I had a
[2:44:59] Speaker 1: friend who was an XJW and I was learning Hebrew
[2:45:03] Speaker 1: at the time, and I was like, well, this would
[2:45:05] Speaker 1: be a really good opportunity to go through the like
[2:45:08] Speaker 1: the j JW translations, and I remember going through it
[2:45:12] Speaker 1: and finding some interesting tidbits and then but it's been
[2:45:15] Speaker 1: I haven't revisited since then, so it's been a long time.
[2:45:19] Speaker 1: But joined the discord and shoot me a message because
[2:45:23] Speaker 1: I have obviously I've accessed to all the JW material.
[2:45:26] Speaker 1: I'd love to go through it and I can send
[2:45:30] Speaker 1: you some translation instances where they were being careless and biased.
[2:45:37] Speaker 7: I would absolutely love that, because, like I said, you have.
[2:45:42] Speaker 7: When I started on this path, I found this panel,
[2:45:47] Speaker 7: and so then I had been taken notes in things
[2:45:52] Speaker 7: that just don't add up in the Bible, that contradict
[2:45:55] Speaker 7: each other. But then, of course, when you're talking to
[2:45:58] Speaker 7: someone else, whatever you have to say, as far as witnesses.
[2:46:03] Speaker 1: Go, you just have to happen. And yeah, they say that,
[2:46:11] Speaker 1: but but like I said.
[2:46:13] Speaker 7: That's actually been a little while because, like I said,
[2:46:17] Speaker 7: me and my boys are shunned because we all decided to.
[2:46:23] Speaker 6: Leave.
[2:46:23] Speaker 7: It didn't make some stuff.
[2:46:24] Speaker 1: Sorry to hear that. I know getting shun stinks, but
[2:46:27] Speaker 1: they do that.
[2:46:28] Speaker 7: Yeah, it's hard, but I just wanted your thoughts on it,
[2:46:33] Speaker 7: and I will send you a message because I would
[2:46:36] Speaker 7: greatly appreciate it. But keep up the good work. And
[2:46:38] Speaker 7: thank you so much because you're doing a good thing.
[2:46:41] Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Genie. I really appreciate you. Have
[2:46:43] Speaker 1: a great one you do. Bye, let's get some ws
[2:46:47] Speaker 1: for Janine. Deconstructing is hard. Deconstructing is hard, all right.
[2:46:54] Speaker 1: I've got to read off these super chests, guys, and
[2:46:56] Speaker 1: then I've got to get a little bit of sleep.
[2:46:58] Speaker 1: I got to wake up super early to for work.
[2:47:01] Speaker 1: I'm working, basically working twelve hour shifts while I'm out
[2:47:03] Speaker 1: here on the road, so I don't have a lot
[2:47:05] Speaker 1: of free time. That's why I started so late today.
[2:47:07] Speaker 1: But it is, you know, it is what it is.
[2:47:12] Speaker 1: Johannes Proms says, Darth walked in post HOCD then got
[2:47:16] Speaker 1: boxed in. Actually that's kind of what he did. I'll
[2:47:20] Speaker 1: give him credit though. He was nice enough, right, he
[2:47:22] Speaker 1: was at least nice enough. And it's just kay. Good
[2:47:24] Speaker 1: to see you tonight, says love you, Justin and leaving faith.
[2:47:27] Speaker 1: I watched both of you and recently found Planet Peterson. Yes,
[2:47:30] Speaker 1: follow Planet Peterson follow allegedly Ian follow Doctor Blitz follow
[2:47:35] Speaker 1: the uh Agnostic evangelists also known as Dave. There's so
[2:47:41] Speaker 1: many great creators in the community. To make sure you're
[2:47:43] Speaker 1: following cyber deconstruction. Make sure you're following shit. Who else
[2:47:48] Speaker 1: is A Joel reads Bible Mezzo and Johannah thank you
[2:47:52] Speaker 1: again for the Superjest says most human beings. I think
[2:47:55] Speaker 1: instantically no right from wrong. Nobody needs a confusing, contradictory,
[2:47:58] Speaker 1: and misogynistic Bible coron or tor to give them some morals.
[2:48:02] Speaker 1: I don't disagree. Actually, I think as a society we
[2:48:06] Speaker 1: tend to know when something's wrong, questions whether or not
[2:48:11] Speaker 1: we challenge it. Knowing something's wrong and challenging it, I
[2:48:14] Speaker 1: think at two different levels of behavior. A Jeremy says
[2:48:19] Speaker 1: eighty five percent of Americans can't do simple math. I'm
[2:48:22] Speaker 1: glad I'm part of the other twenty five ers that
[2:48:25] Speaker 1: praise dog. Sorry if you heard that, big w For
[2:48:29] Speaker 1: those who didn't get the joke, just read it once
[2:48:32] Speaker 1: your time, and once or twice and do the math.
[2:48:35] Speaker 1: On eighty five and twenty five and see what to
[2:48:38] Speaker 1: come up with dynamite joke. Jeremy and Adele says, can
[2:48:41] Speaker 1: confirm yes Mary to rockhard and yes he has a
[2:48:44] Speaker 1: fifth edition. I love it. I love that for you guys, Well,
[2:48:47] Speaker 1: thank you so much for tuning in and for being
[2:48:50] Speaker 1: a Bible studying power couple and space Worder says, I
[2:48:53] Speaker 1: didn't practice Christianity. I mastered it. Bruh, I should say
[2:48:58] Speaker 1: that sometimes. I like that line. Appreciate that and won'te
[2:49:01] Speaker 1: man with the goodnes see it tonight. Thank you for
[2:49:02] Speaker 1: the ten that I was super check. There's how much
[2:49:04] Speaker 1: money to dump Luke?
[2:49:06] Speaker 3: Please?
[2:49:07] Speaker 8: You know what?
[2:49:08] Speaker 1: I should have dumped him sooner. I really wanted, though,
[2:49:11] Speaker 1: to cook him, like I was hoping we'd get to
[2:49:12] Speaker 1: a point where we can have a conversation. I can
[2:49:14] Speaker 1: cook him because I could tell from the start he
[2:49:16] Speaker 1: was an insufferable prick. But he couldn't have a conversation
[2:49:20] Speaker 1: long enough to do that. Crank old keeper says the
[2:49:22] Speaker 1: crash out guy with the terrible no true Scotsman argument
[2:49:25] Speaker 1: was just insufferable. Oo here Java is some money or
[2:49:30] Speaker 1: here have some money to spite him? Still loving the show,
[2:49:33] Speaker 1: Hail Doug, he'll share it. Hail Rocky, Justin, well, thank
[2:49:36] Speaker 1: you so much. I really do appreciate that. Cranky cuber uh,
[2:49:41] Speaker 1: thank you for the support and for watching the stream.
[2:49:44] Speaker 1: You're here in like every stream, so I really appreciate that.
[2:49:48] Speaker 1: And also absurdist says, but Justin, can you prove that.
[2:49:52] Speaker 2: I know.
[2:49:55] Speaker 1: I I if I had to bet money, I'd say
[2:49:58] Speaker 1: he's also a pre supper. I can feel it like
[2:50:01] Speaker 1: he wanted so bad the burden shift. He was doing
[2:50:04] Speaker 1: the pre sup playbook, but on a different argument. And Terrence,
[2:50:07] Speaker 1: thank you for the five dollars. Super thanks. And La
[2:50:10] Speaker 1: Silver Surfer big w thank you for the five dollars.
[2:50:12] Speaker 1: Super thanks. I really appreciate that. And we're we got
[2:50:16] Speaker 1: a couple more superchets left. We're almost to the end.
[2:50:20] Speaker 1: I really do appreciate it, though, Terrence, thank you so much.
[2:50:26] Speaker 1: He says, another five hours to make it ten to
[2:50:28] Speaker 1: drop Luke. He's given me a headache. I'm sorry, I
[2:50:30] Speaker 1: just this droped him. He was a prick. He was
[2:50:32] Speaker 1: a prick. And thank you so much for the seventeen
[2:50:34] Speaker 1: ninety nine kenned. He says, I got the impression that
[2:50:37] Speaker 1: the vampires in the movie Sinners was Christianity trying to
[2:50:40] Speaker 1: tempt people with long life and reciting Lord's prayer. I've
[2:50:44] Speaker 1: never watched the movie, but now you're kind of making
[2:50:46] Speaker 1: me want to watch it, you know what I mean?
[2:50:49] Speaker 1: It sounds good actually, But thank you for the supercheck.
[2:50:52] Speaker 1: Ken's goodnes see it to night. Friend Joshua P. Thank
[2:50:55] Speaker 1: you so much for the Superchesch says Doug doesn't just
[2:50:58] Speaker 1: question beliefs, he rocks them to the core. Yes, get
[2:51:01] Speaker 1: rocked for Doug. Doug, Doug will rock your world. Guys,
[2:51:07] Speaker 1: and Mike come in with another superchest says I like
[2:51:10] Speaker 1: five guests ago lapse Catholic dude said he was politically
[2:51:13] Speaker 1: a bonapartist. That's what I was referring to. Oh and
[2:51:17] Speaker 1: I mustn't missed that. Maybe I didn't Maybe didn't hear
[2:51:21] Speaker 1: him correctly. So he's politically a bonapartist. Well shit, that's
[2:51:26] Speaker 1: something you don't hear that every day, do you anyway?
[2:51:28] Speaker 1: Thanks for clearing that up. Mike, and beliefs bizarre. Thank
[2:51:32] Speaker 1: you for the supertest, says religion is dangerous. People with
[2:51:34] Speaker 1: faith based mindsets are incapable of critical thinking, opening the
[2:51:38] Speaker 1: door for grifters who align with their beliefs. Actually, I
[2:51:42] Speaker 1: do agree with you. Religion is dangerous. That's why religion
[2:51:45] Speaker 1: poisons everything, because it's just inherently dangerous. You can't question
[2:51:50] Speaker 1: anything in the book because then you're questioning God. You
[2:51:52] Speaker 1: know what I mean. And thank you so much, mister mcdizzle.
[2:51:56] Speaker 1: Thank you for the ninety ninety nine. It says, thanks
[2:51:59] Speaker 1: for having these cover. I've learned so much from watching you.
[2:52:02] Speaker 1: I'll be going home to Missouri next month and I'm
[2:52:05] Speaker 1: excited to have some conversations with a few uncles, rock
[2:52:08] Speaker 1: Hard Fornight, Well, mister make Distle big w Actually, when
[2:52:13] Speaker 1: you're coming to Missouri, I'll be leaving Missouri, so we'll
[2:52:18] Speaker 1: be crossing paths. But thank you so much for the
[2:52:20] Speaker 1: super chat and for the support. We've got my friend
[2:52:22] Speaker 1: Jake in the house tonight. Good to see you, Jake.
[2:52:24] Speaker 1: Make sure you're following Jake's podcast The Excess Brothers. And
[2:52:28] Speaker 1: he says, the Father of the Son and the Holy
[2:52:30] Speaker 1: Spirit walk into the bar Bargron says if this one
[2:52:34] Speaker 1: Tabor three. They reply, yes, that is an amazing joke.
[2:52:42] Speaker 1: I love that joke, Jake, Thank you so much. I've
[2:52:44] Speaker 1: not heard that one and I'm sad that I've never
[2:52:46] Speaker 1: heard it yet. That was amazing, big w and Master
[2:52:51] Speaker 1: Micheddeer says, half a beer on me to have a beer.
[2:52:55] Speaker 1: I mean, thank you so much. I really appreciate that,
[2:52:57] Speaker 1: Master Micheeddeer, thanks for being here, thanks for support and
[2:53:01] Speaker 1: my conscious six one six hail Nero says, don't forget
[2:53:05] Speaker 1: zena great mind, great person. Oh of course Zena Yes,
[2:53:09] Speaker 1: and Thinker and Bash and Rhea and Christina Carrol. Holy shit,
[2:53:14] Speaker 1: there's so many, so many, And the hockey guy says, hey,
[2:53:18] Speaker 1: justin do you have a favorite Bible contradiction? Mine is
[2:53:20] Speaker 1: the who bought the field contradiction in Matthew and Axe. Well,
[2:53:26] Speaker 1: I do got a favorite contradiction, and I think people
[2:53:29] Speaker 1: are bored of hearing it, so I got to stop
[2:53:31] Speaker 1: giving it. But I love, and I mean love, the
[2:53:35] Speaker 1: contradiction between three and seven years in first Chronicles twenty
[2:53:39] Speaker 1: one and second stamm of twenty four. And I'm gonna
[2:53:41] Speaker 1: tell you why I love it, because if you get
[2:53:42] Speaker 1: someone who really knows the Bible well or has studied apologetics,
[2:53:47] Speaker 1: they think that they know the answer, they think they
[2:53:50] Speaker 1: know how to solve it, But in reality, the solution
[2:53:55] Speaker 1: that's on the internet form is wrong. I already have
[2:53:57] Speaker 1: the rebuttal for it. I know why it's wrong, and
[2:53:59] Speaker 1: I a few things make me more happy to give
[2:54:03] Speaker 1: the contradiction. Then they'll give me confidently why it's not
[2:54:07] Speaker 1: a contradiction, and then me completely averserate them and just
[2:54:12] Speaker 1: watch their confidence get shattered. So I like that's one
[2:54:15] Speaker 1: of the reasons why I like that one, because so
[2:54:17] Speaker 1: many people think that the apologetic on that is strong,
[2:54:21] Speaker 1: and it's actually really weak and it's disco says praise Dog.
[2:54:26] Speaker 1: I agree, Praise Dog absolutely. Thank you so much. All
[2:54:29] Speaker 1: right with that, guys, we has almost been It's almost
[2:54:31] Speaker 1: midnight where I'm at. It's one o'clock where you guys,
[2:54:33] Speaker 1: A right, I got to wake up early in the morning.
[2:54:35] Speaker 1: So thank you so much for being here. Thank you
[2:54:37] Speaker 1: for all the chats and the shares and the likes
[2:54:40] Speaker 1: and the support and the super chats. I really appreciate that.
[2:54:43] Speaker 1: We'll be live again Friday night for the long session,
[2:54:46] Speaker 1: and we'll be live again over the weekend as per usual,
[2:54:49] Speaker 1: we'll have the long sessions. So thank you so so
[2:54:52] Speaker 1: much for being here. And is anyone live that we
[2:54:55] Speaker 1: can go a raid right now? Who's actually live. Give
[2:54:58] Speaker 1: me a second to see who is live, and we're
[2:55:03] Speaker 1: gonna go. We gotta, we gotta go raid somebody. We
[2:55:05] Speaker 1: can't let this stand. We can't just quit and not
[2:55:08] Speaker 1: give somebody a raid.
[2:55:09] Speaker 2: Let's see.
[2:55:12] Speaker 1: Is cyberlive? He goes late at night?
[2:55:16] Speaker 2: Let's see.
[2:55:20] Speaker 1: Who is live right now? I don't see Cyber on.
[2:55:26] Speaker 1: Mezzo sometimes goes live. No, oh, well, let's check TikTok
[2:55:36] Speaker 1: real quick. See who's live on TikTok. Who's live on
[2:55:39] Speaker 1: TikTok right now?
[2:55:40] Speaker 3: Guys?
[2:55:41] Speaker 1: Mezzo? Oh, Joel and Mezzo are live, all right? I
[2:55:44] Speaker 1: want to put Joel and Mezzo on the screen. Friends,
[2:55:47] Speaker 1: give me one second, shoot I can. Let's see, undude,
[2:55:56] Speaker 1: Joel reads Bible. There he is. Oh, it isn't the show.
[2:56:02] Speaker 1: He's live right now. Huh what about Mezzo? Mezzo live?
[2:56:09] Speaker 1: Mezzo is live? All right, We're gonna put Mezzo on
[2:56:11] Speaker 1: the on the screen. Oh my god, oh my god.
[2:56:25] Speaker 1: Not only is Mezo live, he's got crash out King Minar.
[2:56:29] Speaker 1: He's got crash out King Manara on right now, guys,
[2:56:33] Speaker 1: No fucking way, guys, you guys remember Manar crash out.
[2:56:38] Speaker 1: Remember I'm big, I'm beautiful. I could do handstands. You
[2:56:41] Speaker 1: remember that guy, he's talking to Mezso right now? All right,
[2:56:45] Speaker 1: meop too many clicks. Guys, go raid mezzos stream. I'm
[2:56:51] Speaker 1: gonna let me zoom in so you can read this.
[2:56:57] Speaker 1: Here you go, Mezso underscore WI, Meso underscore WS. That's
[2:57:02] Speaker 1: the the handle that we have to go to. I'm
[2:57:06] Speaker 1: gonna go watch right now. Guys, go over raid Meso
[2:57:09] Speaker 1: underscore WS. I'll see you over there in a minute.
[2:57:11] Speaker 1: I can't wait to see the crash out.
[2:57:13] Speaker 2: I'm

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