# 2025-08-16 LIVE DEBATE \[God is Imaginary\]

An episode of [Deconstruction Zone](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1837730286), 9 Oct 2025, 4 h 00 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/67798399/2025_08_16_live_debate_god_is_imaginary.mp3

Live debating every theist on the planet. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Get Member Perks: https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone/join https://patreon.com/Deconstruction_Zone --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUPPORT THE STREAM: https://venmo.com/u/JHCOFFEEFUND https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/JHCOFFEEFUND https://cash.app/$JHCOFFEEFUND --------------------------------------------------------------------- SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS: https://www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction.zone https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone https://www.youtube.com/@DZDebates https://www.twitch.tv/deconstructionzone_ https://www.instagram.com/deconstruction_zone/ https://clapperapp.com/Justin_DZ https://x.com/Justin_DZ_ https://discord.com/invite/WmeAmrhkxZ https://linktr.ee/justin_____ Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/deconstruction-zone--6451535/support.

## Transcript

[0:08] Speaker 1: All right, all right, friends, I think I think the
[0:13] Speaker 1: YouTube streams should be live. Give me one second to
[0:18] Speaker 1: double check. Looks like that is the case, and let
[0:23] Speaker 1: me get TikTok going and about it being about to boom.
[0:34] Speaker 1: We should be live on all the platform's friends. It's
[0:38] Speaker 1: been a minute. I was on vacation for the last
[0:40] Speaker 1: two weeks, my son and I having a blast enjoying
[0:44] Speaker 1: the good weather that we actually had here in Ohio,
[0:47] Speaker 1: which sometimes that happens, sometimes we get good weather here.
[0:51] Speaker 1: So I appreciate you guys being patient patient in my absence.
[0:55] Speaker 1: I know it was. I was gone for quite a while.
[0:57] Speaker 1: But we are back in the saddle now and we
[1:00] Speaker 1: are ready to rock and roll. So welcome in, friends.
[1:04] Speaker 1: I'm happy to be here, and I'm happy to see
[1:07] Speaker 1: y'all here as well. Before we get started, we got
[1:10] Speaker 1: we got a couple of people waiting to get in already.
[1:13] Speaker 1: Let me grab I think I got four or five
[1:16] Speaker 1: super chats here and we'll get the we'll get the
[1:17] Speaker 1: show on the road. First super chests from Semi Colon.
[1:22] Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Simmy Colon. Uh, I appreciate the
[1:24] Speaker 1: six sixty six is I got the barbecue sauce ready
[1:27] Speaker 1: for myself, mister bro so proud to see how far
[1:29] Speaker 1: you've come since I started watching. Well, thank you, Simmy Colan.
[1:32] Speaker 1: I appreciate that, and it is a little bit remarkable.
[1:35] Speaker 1: It's shocking to me how much the channel has been growing.
[1:38] Speaker 1: I guess I never expected it to be this uh,
[1:42] Speaker 1: this popular, but I'm thankful for the community that continues
[1:46] Speaker 1: to push this content out and miss carew since the hearts,
[1:50] Speaker 1: thank you so much. I really appreciate the hearts and
[1:53] Speaker 1: that guy Fox, thank you for the ten that was
[1:55] Speaker 1: Superchests is three cheers to the return of Doug's profit.
[2:00] Speaker 1: Appreciate it. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that.
[2:02] Speaker 1: And our friend Deck sent out five Easy to Bake
[2:04] Speaker 1: gifted memberships. I appreciate that. Good to see you, des
[2:08] Speaker 1: great to see you as always in the livestream participate
[2:11] Speaker 1: in hope you had a good August so far, and
[2:15] Speaker 1: from Unashamed of pastate, thank you so much for the
[2:17] Speaker 1: ten hour super Chat says a blessing. May no saint
[2:22] Speaker 1: escape the skillet, may no scripture dodge the knife, and
[2:25] Speaker 1: made the aroma of burnt belly beliefs be pleasing to
[2:30] Speaker 1: Doug welcome back. Let's cook. Well, hey, I really appreciate that.
[2:33] Speaker 1: Unashamed of pastate, and we are back. We are back
[2:37] Speaker 1: in the ovens on preheat. Yoda says, been so long,
[2:41] Speaker 1: I thought I was blocked. Welcome back. No, no, no, you're
[2:44] Speaker 1: not blocked. Friends, I was on vacation for two weeks.
[2:46] Speaker 1: We are, but we're We're back and ready to rock
[2:49] Speaker 1: and roll, he always. Scirtum says, welcome back. We've missed you. Well,
[2:51] Speaker 1: thank you. I appreciate that. Picked up you for the
[2:54] Speaker 1: six sixty six and Solar Solar Aurora says, hey, justin
[3:01] Speaker 1: it's me Solar with a name change and new PfP. Listen.
[3:05] Speaker 2: I know.
[3:07] Speaker 1: You guys think telling me that is helpful, but you
[3:09] Speaker 1: got to remember so many people talk to me on
[3:12] Speaker 1: here and I get used to their names and profile
[3:15] Speaker 1: that once they change it, they're a whole different person
[3:18] Speaker 1: to me now, Like it's hard. It's nearly impossible for
[3:21] Speaker 1: me to track people's name changes unless we talk all
[3:25] Speaker 1: the time. But anyways, I appreciate the heads up, he says,
[3:28] Speaker 1: been busy, so I haven't been able to catch your
[3:30] Speaker 1: streams lately, but I'm here now. Well, thank you, Solar
[3:33] Speaker 1: I appreciate that, and thanks for supporting. And we haven't
[3:35] Speaker 1: had a stream in two weeks because I was on vacation,
[3:38] Speaker 1: but we are having a stream now. When we get
[3:40] Speaker 1: one more super Chat, we'll get our first guest in here. Abel,
[3:43] Speaker 1: thank you for the find out of super chest says,
[3:45] Speaker 1: what's up? What's up? What's up the atheist Mexican? I
[3:49] Speaker 1: think it means what's up period? The atheist Mexican here again,
[3:53] Speaker 1: just trying to get on to talk about more science
[3:56] Speaker 1: side of Christian arguments. Well able, listen. I appreciate that, Abel,
[3:59] Speaker 1: And what's up with you? I hope you're doing well.
[4:02] Speaker 1: I hope you're you're you're able to have some successful dialogues.
[4:08] Speaker 1: All right, let's get our first guest in here. The
[4:10] Speaker 1: first in line was, in fact, semi Colon, so we'll
[4:14] Speaker 1: get semi Colon. Are you doing?
[4:17] Speaker 3: Oh, I'm doing all right. I'm glad to see you back. Man.
[4:20] Speaker 1: Hey, thanks Simmy Colan. What's in your mind?
[4:24] Speaker 3: Oh?
[4:24] Speaker 4: Well, I just wanted to talk about my belief a
[4:28] Speaker 4: little bit. I've been waiting to come on for a while,
[4:31] Speaker 4: like a year and a half almost, And it's probably
[4:36] Speaker 4: something you may or may not have heard before, but
[4:39] Speaker 4: probably rarely.
[4:40] Speaker 3: I don't want to be labeled a phil.
[4:41] Speaker 4: Brow before you do, because I don't like listening to
[4:46] Speaker 4: them either.
[4:48] Speaker 1: Fair enough, I mean, the people who typically get labeled
[4:52] Speaker 1: philbros are the ones that want to do philosophy, but
[4:55] Speaker 1: they want to do it in a way that is
[4:58] Speaker 1: like pretentious and leaves the audience behind. And I'm just
[5:02] Speaker 1: not here.
[5:02] Speaker 4: For Yeah, So this is your stream, man, you go
[5:07] Speaker 4: right ahead and ask me questions.
[5:09] Speaker 1: All right, So, uh, semi, are you a believe in
[5:13] Speaker 1: a particular God or genari God?
[5:17] Speaker 3: Uh? I? How do I explain this?
[5:22] Speaker 4: I used to be a born again Christian, fell away
[5:24] Speaker 4: hard and thanks to the community and you, I got
[5:28] Speaker 4: a greater understanding of the Old Testament and the New Testament.
[5:33] Speaker 3: Well, I think I'm I'm more aligned with my ancestors.
[5:37] Speaker 3: I'm I'm very Scottish and.
[5:40] Speaker 4: They hail from the Celtic Highlands, so I kind of
[5:42] Speaker 4: believe what the Druids belief and also like the Nazarenes
[5:48] Speaker 4: and the Medians, I kind of fall down that line
[5:51] Speaker 4: of belief.
[5:52] Speaker 1: So it sounds like you've you've shifted your position a
[5:55] Speaker 1: little bit, and that's fine. I think that happens. That
[5:59] Speaker 1: happens to a lot of people. I left Christianity, I
[6:01] Speaker 1: went to agnostic belief system as well. Yours sounds a
[6:04] Speaker 1: little different than agnostic though, so like the Druid belief system,
[6:08] Speaker 1: the belief system of your ancestors and whatnot, what would
[6:13] Speaker 1: be like a compelling reason to believe that that is
[6:16] Speaker 1: the you know, the reality in which we live in.
[6:23] Speaker 4: Well, I think across all cultures they had some sort
[6:30] Speaker 4: of representation. I think most people refer to them as
[6:32] Speaker 4: like the snake people. I think is what I've heard
[6:35] Speaker 4: on the Internet and from other people and sources, and.
[6:41] Speaker 3: I think that that they believe that.
[6:45] Speaker 4: Like life is God in a way, that the cycles
[6:48] Speaker 4: of life, death or birth, the seasons, you know, battle
[6:52] Speaker 4: and feasting, that's all of it.
[6:55] Speaker 3: You know, sounds a little woohoo, but uh, it makes
[7:00] Speaker 3: sense to me.
[7:01] Speaker 1: It's pretty classic, right. You know a lot of people
[7:04] Speaker 1: in the world believed along those lines, and so I
[7:08] Speaker 1: can I can understand you know, where you're getting this
[7:11] Speaker 1: idea from. I guess what I'm trying to figure out
[7:14] Speaker 1: is what would be a compelling evidence or an argument
[7:19] Speaker 1: that would lead one to believe that this is true?
[7:23] Speaker 1: Rather than just something you believe in.
[7:26] Speaker 4: Uh, well, everybody lives, everybody dies, and energy doesn't just
[7:31] Speaker 4: go away.
[7:33] Speaker 3: You know.
[7:34] Speaker 4: I think when you when you argue about like the
[7:38] Speaker 4: recursiveness of life and how you can't really say that
[7:41] Speaker 4: there's a beginning or an end and it just keeps going,
[7:44] Speaker 4: I think that's kind of where my line of thought is.
[7:47] Speaker 4: And I hate calling that god, but I think that's
[7:51] Speaker 4: the way we that's the word that we use to
[7:55] Speaker 4: understand it.
[7:57] Speaker 1: What do you think energy is?
[7:59] Speaker 3: So?
[7:59] Speaker 1: And I've I've heard this a lot. People think that
[8:01] Speaker 1: like there's an energy inside of us and it just
[8:03] Speaker 1: has to go somewhere when our body expires. But to me,
[8:07] Speaker 1: I think this is a reclassification of what the word
[8:11] Speaker 1: energy means. So what does it mean for you?
[8:18] Speaker 3: Well, I think in science terms, you know you, energy
[8:21] Speaker 3: would be.
[8:24] Speaker 4: Anything from heat to some form of force that causes change.
[8:32] Speaker 1: So my understanding of energy is that energy is a
[8:36] Speaker 1: property of a of a what we might call material.
[8:41] Speaker 1: But even the word material sometimes isn't really a good
[8:44] Speaker 1: form or a good explanation, because like quantum fields also
[8:48] Speaker 1: have energy, and some people would debate on whether or
[8:51] Speaker 1: not a quantum field is considered a material or not. Nevertheless,
[8:56] Speaker 1: energy is always a property of something that does exist
[8:59] Speaker 1: in the in the physical world, right, So when we
[9:03] Speaker 1: say energy, we we must tie that to something because
[9:06] Speaker 1: even like electricity, right, electricity isn't just a thing that exists.
[9:11] Speaker 1: Electricity is describing the flow of ions.
[9:15] Speaker 3: Right.
[9:15] Speaker 1: So we've got electrons that are that are negatively charged
[9:19] Speaker 1: and they're moving through you know, a crystalline structure, typically
[9:23] Speaker 1: something like copper, and so like we can say this
[9:27] Speaker 1: is energy, but when we say energy, what we're really
[9:30] Speaker 1: referring to is like the transfer of ions. So like
[9:33] Speaker 1: when we say, like the energy inside of us, Like
[9:36] Speaker 1: if you think there's an energy inside of us, I
[9:38] Speaker 1: would ask, well, okay, well what are we tying that to?
[9:41] Speaker 5: What is that a measure of.
[9:45] Speaker 3: H that makes sense?
[9:48] Speaker 4: I also maybe like referring and everything you said makes sense,
[9:51] Speaker 4: and I agree with you.
[9:53] Speaker 3: I think maybe.
[9:54] Speaker 4: Also when I say energy, I might be referring to
[9:58] Speaker 4: like what's behind thoughts and what's behind all things, you know.
[10:05] Speaker 5: Like quantum field kind of.
[10:10] Speaker 4: And I don't want to stick here for a while
[10:12] Speaker 4: because I do have some points that I think that
[10:15] Speaker 4: you would like, and I think other people would like
[10:18] Speaker 4: in regards to Christianity and some misconceptions that I think
[10:22] Speaker 4: you have, some atheists have, and Christians have, well.
[10:27] Speaker 5: I mean to.
[10:30] Speaker 1: Typically we we do Christian arguments from Christians. I try
[10:34] Speaker 1: not to, Like I don't argue non Muslims about the
[10:37] Speaker 1: Islamic God, and I don't typically argue non Christians about Christianity.
[10:42] Speaker 1: But on the on the energy, right, because I think
[10:45] Speaker 1: this is where there's going to be a separation, because
[10:50] Speaker 1: like the thing that that we think is inside of
[10:53] Speaker 1: us producing thoughts and feelings and emotions, right, these are observable,
[10:58] Speaker 1: Like we can see what like the chemical changes happening
[11:02] Speaker 1: inside of our brain, the neurological states that are leading
[11:05] Speaker 1: to these feelings, emotions and thoughts. Right, What would be
[11:09] Speaker 1: a good reason to believe that because right now we're
[11:11] Speaker 1: talking about energy, right, We're thinking energy must be some
[11:15] Speaker 1: sort of a thing that lives on after our skin
[11:18] Speaker 1: suit dies, right, So like, yeah, what would lead one
[11:22] Speaker 1: to believe that whatever this energy is, it produces thoughts, feelings,
[11:26] Speaker 1: and emotions.
[11:36] Speaker 3: I did come prepared.
[11:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, notes are great.
[11:47] Speaker 4: Well, so I'm basically kind of saying that, like I
[11:49] Speaker 4: believe in the immortality of the soul, right, And I
[11:53] Speaker 4: think it all gets gets recycled back into itself and
[11:57] Speaker 4: that it's very recursive.
[11:58] Speaker 3: So you know when when I think of what you're saying, well,
[12:02] Speaker 3: you know you're you're saying.
[12:04] Speaker 4: You know, my adrenaline, my corsole, my you know all
[12:07] Speaker 4: those all those chemicals are causing my thoughts to be
[12:11] Speaker 4: the way that they are. Well, how do you explain
[12:18] Speaker 4: things like like the muse or people who are like
[12:21] Speaker 4: incredibly creative where it just it just seems like things
[12:24] Speaker 4: come out of nowhere for them or or stuff like that.
[12:28] Speaker 3: How do you I don't know how you.
[12:30] Speaker 4: Can quantify that or qualify that any any way, shape
[12:34] Speaker 4: or form when it seemingly comes out of nowhere.
[12:37] Speaker 1: Well, I don't think it comes out of nowhere. And
[12:40] Speaker 1: like I understand your position. Like even Plato talked about
[12:43] Speaker 1: how when it came to like the really skilled poets
[12:47] Speaker 1: like they were, they were producing something that was of
[12:51] Speaker 1: a divine nature. Right, it couldn't be explained. But now
[12:54] Speaker 1: we we have science and we know that, like there
[12:58] Speaker 1: are there are some people where there brains are wired differently.
[13:01] Speaker 1: So like my brain is like super analytical. It's one
[13:03] Speaker 1: of the things that made me want to be an engineer.
[13:06] Speaker 1: I'm really good at like breaking things down, but I'm
[13:11] Speaker 1: like I'm shit at singing or artistry or like I
[13:15] Speaker 1: can't do any of that stuff right. So this seems
[13:19] Speaker 1: to be just a way that our brains, because of
[13:23] Speaker 1: our biological disposition, appear to operate. So I wouldn't at
[13:28] Speaker 1: this day and age in twenty twenty five, attribute any
[13:30] Speaker 1: of that type of stuff to a spiritual force. I
[13:34] Speaker 1: would say, no, these are based on like the amount
[13:38] Speaker 1: of gray matter you have in your head or you know,
[13:40] Speaker 1: in your brain, I mean not in your head.
[13:44] Speaker 4: So you don't think that there's anything going on in
[13:47] Speaker 4: the background.
[13:48] Speaker 3: How do you how do you explain things like intuition or.
[13:54] Speaker 4: You know that thing where like you think about somebody
[13:56] Speaker 4: and then boom, they're giving you.
[13:57] Speaker 3: A phone call. How do you explain that just coincidence?
[14:01] Speaker 1: Well, I think you've described two different things like intuition
[14:06] Speaker 1: and and what's the word I'm looking for. There's another word.
[14:11] Speaker 1: It'll come to me as I'm talking. The intuition is
[14:13] Speaker 1: like this idea where like you feel like something must
[14:18] Speaker 1: be true or untrue, but you haven't really sat and
[14:21] Speaker 1: thought about it yet. So like we do this you know,
[14:24] Speaker 1: in engineering a lot, someone would bring something up like, hey,
[14:27] Speaker 1: would that would that design work? I'm like, well, my
[14:30] Speaker 1: intuition says, yeah, it probably would work, but I need
[14:32] Speaker 1: to go draw it out and take a look at
[14:34] Speaker 1: it before I know for sure if it will work.
[14:37] Speaker 5: Right.
[14:37] Speaker 1: But my intuition, my experience, everything I know of twenty
[14:42] Speaker 1: years of being engineer tells me that this probably does work.
[14:46] Speaker 1: But I think what you're describing is like a premonition
[14:53] Speaker 1: where somebody thinks of something and then it happens, or
[14:57] Speaker 1: they dream of it and then it happens. And there
[15:00] Speaker 1: have been two really good explanations for these, you know. First, obviously,
[15:04] Speaker 1: I think most of them are just really really interesting coincidences,
[15:08] Speaker 1: and they're going to happen to everybody eventually, Like everybody
[15:11] Speaker 1: lives long enough that eventually some really cool coincidence is
[15:15] Speaker 1: going to happen. So it's just like a game of numbers.
[15:18] Speaker 1: But the other thing too, because I studied this long
[15:20] Speaker 1: time ago, because I had an instance where I thought
[15:22] Speaker 1: that I had a premonition when I was about thirteen,
[15:25] Speaker 1: and it was such an interesting phenomenon that I remembered
[15:29] Speaker 1: it for a long time after thinking, wow, that was
[15:31] Speaker 1: really kind of a weird, unexplainable thing. And I started
[15:34] Speaker 1: studying intuitions, and it turns out actually that a lot
[15:39] Speaker 1: of people, when they have intuitions, a lot of them
[15:43] Speaker 1: misremember what actually happened in the past. It's kind of
[15:46] Speaker 1: like having deja vu, where when you have deja vu,
[15:50] Speaker 1: your brain is experiencing something right now, but it's also
[15:55] Speaker 1: thinks that it already experienced it, but nine times out
[15:58] Speaker 1: of ten it never did. And intuition happens the same
[16:01] Speaker 1: way they they've it's been hard to get good studies
[16:05] Speaker 1: on intuition, but there have been some studies on intuition,
[16:08] Speaker 1: and what it really typically turns out to be is
[16:11] Speaker 1: that people are are remembering things that didn't happen, like oh,
[16:15] Speaker 1: I remember I had a dream about that, when they
[16:17] Speaker 1: didn't actually have a dream about that. Now, that doesn't
[16:20] Speaker 1: mean that everyone is in that camp. Some people legitimately
[16:23] Speaker 1: do have a thought or a dream and then the
[16:26] Speaker 1: thing happens and it's like, holy shit, that's crazy. How
[16:28] Speaker 1: did that happen?
[16:29] Speaker 5: Right?
[16:29] Speaker 1: And those I would chalk up to, well, yeah, coincidence
[16:32] Speaker 1: has happened sometimes.
[16:35] Speaker 3: Okay, so.
[16:37] Speaker 4: I have a I'm going to try to keep a
[16:39] Speaker 4: short little story where I feel like my unconscious intuition was.
[16:45] Speaker 3: Just uh sliking out right. So I'm going through divorce
[16:52] Speaker 3: right now, my exes sorry.
[16:55] Speaker 1: To hear that.
[16:56] Speaker 3: No, that's all good. It's happened for a reason.
[16:58] Speaker 1: And while you're living in your.
[17:01] Speaker 3: No, I'm here because I just.
[17:03] Speaker 5: Because my wife.
[17:05] Speaker 1: I just I don't have Wi Fi where I live.
[17:08] Speaker 4: But uh, this is the only place of good service.
[17:12] Speaker 4: So but yeah, so right, Uh, the summer solstice is
[17:18] Speaker 4: about to happen, like three days before. I'm getting rid
[17:21] Speaker 4: of all her shit. I'm you know, old furniture, I'm
[17:25] Speaker 4: redoing the house.
[17:26] Speaker 3: There's scrap wood everywhere.
[17:28] Speaker 4: And I live in I live in North Carolina, so
[17:30] Speaker 4: I'm in the mountains, right, And I just had like
[17:34] Speaker 4: fires going everywhere from cleaning up all the brush from
[17:37] Speaker 4: Hurricane Heleen and all that stuff. And uh, I had
[17:41] Speaker 4: three like twenty thirty foot fires.
[17:44] Speaker 3: Going all at the same time. And uh it was
[17:47] Speaker 3: three days before the solstice.
[17:49] Speaker 4: And I hadn't done like any research into my family
[17:52] Speaker 4: history because you know, I was I was born again
[17:55] Speaker 4: fundamentalist Christian for like five years, you know, married on
[18:00] Speaker 4: and uh that's part of the reason why she left.
[18:03] Speaker 3: But regardless of all that bull crap.
[18:07] Speaker 4: When I'm looking up what they did, what my ancestors
[18:11] Speaker 4: used to do, Uh, that's what they did. They would
[18:15] Speaker 4: have they would collect all the brush during that time
[18:18] Speaker 4: of the year, and they would burn it at that
[18:20] Speaker 4: time of the year.
[18:21] Speaker 3: So I have a.
[18:25] Speaker 4: I understand what you mean when you say when you
[18:27] Speaker 4: live long enough that things just kind.
[18:29] Speaker 3: Of fall into place. But I don't know how to
[18:32] Speaker 3: explain stuff like that in my.
[18:34] Speaker 4: Life and things that I know that have happened in
[18:36] Speaker 4: my past where I'm like, this is just eerily lining
[18:40] Speaker 4: up two perfectly, Like it was three days before the
[18:49] Speaker 4: summer solstice, right when they they celebrate Midsummer's Eve. So
[18:56] Speaker 4: like you eighteenth or something, yeah to the twenty first, Okay, yep,
[19:04] Speaker 4: and then.
[19:05] Speaker 1: Literally understand your story correctly, you're picking up brush three
[19:10] Speaker 1: days prior to the summer solstice, and then you learn
[19:14] Speaker 1: some a little bit time later that your ancestors used
[19:17] Speaker 1: to do the same thing prior to the summer solstice.
[19:20] Speaker 3: Uh.
[19:23] Speaker 4: Yes, But I mean there was so much more to it,
[19:27] Speaker 4: like the symbology of why they did it. It lined
[19:30] Speaker 4: up almost perfectly with like what I am going through
[19:34] Speaker 4: and was going through at the time where they would
[19:37] Speaker 4: be getting there, just be getting rid of all the
[19:39] Speaker 4: old they'd burn it away and then they'd you know,
[19:41] Speaker 4: collect the ashes and do their rituals with it and stuff. Also,
[19:46] Speaker 4: I do think something kind of biblical happened. I had
[19:49] Speaker 4: three white hawks literally circling above me on the summer solstice.
[19:55] Speaker 6: And it's just when idiosyncrasies line up like that, I
[19:59] Speaker 6: do hear and I do you.
[20:01] Speaker 4: Give credit to what you're saying that sometimes things just
[20:04] Speaker 4: line up. You know, we're in we're on Earth, in
[20:07] Speaker 4: this perfect little spot and in the cosmos where life
[20:11] Speaker 4: just works. I get that miracles, statistical miracles happen sometimes,
[20:18] Speaker 4: but it's it's just it's hard to believe that that's
[20:23] Speaker 4: what it is.
[20:25] Speaker 1: I guess I don't even know if I would classify
[20:27] Speaker 1: this as much of a coincidence. Like it so like
[20:30] Speaker 1: you're you're picking up sticks.
[20:34] Speaker 5: Or brush of more than stick.
[20:36] Speaker 4: I did treework, so I have like machine, I'm picking
[20:38] Speaker 4: up like whole trees.
[20:40] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[20:40] Speaker 1: So, so what went through your brain right before you
[20:44] Speaker 1: went outside to go clear the brush? What was what
[20:47] Speaker 1: what was your thought process?
[20:50] Speaker 3: Well, I'm trying to sell the property. My wife I
[20:53] Speaker 3: used to live in New York. She or my ex
[20:56] Speaker 3: took the kids and ran off, and.
[21:00] Speaker 4: You know, slandered me into the whole bunch of things
[21:02] Speaker 4: that I never did.
[21:04] Speaker 1: Well, let's let's pause. We need to pause for a second.
[21:07] Speaker 3: That's what was going through my brain. Bull crap.
[21:10] Speaker 1: Okay, all right, before moving a further, let me I
[21:14] Speaker 1: need to add just this as a friend. Please, did
[21:16] Speaker 1: you have a lawyer?
[21:17] Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you need one finalized.
[21:22] Speaker 1: Oh it's already done.
[21:24] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's at that point in time.
[21:27] Speaker 4: She had well in North Carolina, you have to be
[21:30] Speaker 4: separated for a year, so she jetted off.
[21:34] Speaker 3: You know, I didn't even know where her or the
[21:36] Speaker 3: kids were, So I went through a lot of bulk.
[21:39] Speaker 1: This wasn't two months ago, this was like last year.
[21:42] Speaker 3: This has been happening for like a whole year.
[21:44] Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, I thought I thought this just happened. I'm like, motherfucker,
[21:47] Speaker 1: you need a lawyer yesterday.
[21:49] Speaker 5: I wish.
[21:54] Speaker 1: Okay, So all right, sorry, I just want to make sure.
[21:57] Speaker 1: I wanted to make sure you're okay before we go
[21:59] Speaker 1: any further. Ok So, back at the bar, so yeah,
[22:03] Speaker 1: I mean to me, like you there was a thought
[22:06] Speaker 1: that probably went through your head. You're like, hey, I
[22:08] Speaker 1: need to go outside and clear some brush. Now is
[22:11] Speaker 1: as good as time as ever. And you know, I mean,
[22:15] Speaker 1: I would I would imagine that this could be chocked
[22:18] Speaker 1: up as a pretty simple coincidence. But I understand when
[22:21] Speaker 1: you're in when you're in a position that you're in, right,
[22:24] Speaker 1: because your your thoughts and your emotions are all heightened
[22:28] Speaker 1: because of you know, the situation at home, right, it's
[22:32] Speaker 1: really easy to read more into these situations than you
[22:36] Speaker 1: typically would otherwise.
[22:37] Speaker 2: Right.
[22:38] Speaker 1: I would imagine that, like another year or two from now,
[22:41] Speaker 1: when like the dust has really been settled and you're
[22:44] Speaker 1: starting to get you know, things put back together again,
[22:47] Speaker 1: you'll probably look at these types of coincidences in your
[22:50] Speaker 1: life or even in other people's lives and be like, oh, yeah,
[22:52] Speaker 1: it sounds like a coincidence. But right now, I'm sure
[22:56] Speaker 1: to you it's probably pretty damn compelling because you want
[22:58] Speaker 1: to feel like, yeah, yeah, my ancestors are looking out
[23:01] Speaker 1: for me.
[23:04] Speaker 3: No, I don't want it to do that. That's the thing.
[23:06] Speaker 4: I don't, you know, it's just doing things stack up
[23:10] Speaker 4: too much and you just go, I can't, I can't
[23:12] Speaker 4: ignore it anymore, you know, I don't there. I went
[23:18] Speaker 4: to school for biochemistry microbiology, and I have a little
[23:22] Speaker 4: knowledge of pharmacology, and and I always try to put
[23:28] Speaker 4: myself in the mindset where you're saying, like, I just
[23:31] Speaker 4: know coincidence, Like you know, there's a statistical odd that
[23:34] Speaker 4: it's going to happen.
[23:36] Speaker 3: Uh, you know, there is a reaction to every action.
[23:40] Speaker 4: And over the past year, I've just experienced way too
[23:47] Speaker 4: many things that.
[23:47] Speaker 3: I just I can't. I can't just chalk it up
[23:51] Speaker 3: to to coincidence. I can't. I just can't.
[23:54] Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you a question, because right, who
[23:57] Speaker 1: do you think are behind these events? Is it a god?
[24:06] Speaker 1: Is it an ancestor what is it?
[24:12] Speaker 3: Well? I think why it's very fractal.
[24:15] Speaker 4: So you know, when I think of life, I immediately
[24:17] Speaker 4: think like the Mandel brought right, and.
[24:20] Speaker 3: If you zoom into that thing, you it just goes
[24:22] Speaker 3: forever and.
[24:23] Speaker 4: You just you you see or you think you see
[24:26] Speaker 4: all these things like elephants dancing or camels running, and
[24:31] Speaker 4: you can change.
[24:32] Speaker 3: The formula to like being to the power.
[24:36] Speaker 4: Of negative one or two or whatever right forever. That's
[24:40] Speaker 4: what I think life is, and that's what I would
[24:42] Speaker 4: call God, I would call.
[24:45] Speaker 1: Well, just to be sure, Like when I say God,
[24:48] Speaker 1: I'm talking about like an individual that created the universe.
[24:53] Speaker 4: Yeah, well I don't believe an individual creating the universe.
[24:57] Speaker 3: I kind of That's why I said before.
[25:02] Speaker 4: You know how you say that people when they when
[25:04] Speaker 4: they try to argue against you as an atheist, that
[25:13] Speaker 4: that there's.
[25:14] Speaker 3: A beginning and an end.
[25:16] Speaker 4: Uh, you know, a big bang and then there's gonna
[25:18] Speaker 4: be an end. And then you you refute that by
[25:20] Speaker 4: saying there's no evidence of their of their being, that
[25:24] Speaker 4: that it.
[25:24] Speaker 3: Loops forever and ever.
[25:27] Speaker 4: I think I call I'm calling that God and the
[25:32] Speaker 4: totality of individuation and experience.
[25:38] Speaker 3: Is God. But I don't want to say that like
[25:40] Speaker 3: you and I are God, you know what I mean?
[25:42] Speaker 1: It sounds like you don't believe in God then, like,
[25:45] Speaker 1: so what you believe in is like a spirit realm.
[25:49] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's what my ancestors called it.
[25:52] Speaker 4: They called it the other world, the the Tirna Na
[25:55] Speaker 4: God or something like that.
[25:57] Speaker 1: This is akin to like Buddhism right where or you
[26:00] Speaker 1: believe in a spirit realm, but you don't believe in
[26:02] Speaker 1: like a creator God and if that's the case, like
[26:05] Speaker 1: you and I actually agree that there is in fact
[26:07] Speaker 1: no creator God, and that's that's the claim on the
[26:10] Speaker 1: board today. Now as to the presence of a spirit realm,
[26:16] Speaker 1: we've done pretty good studies, I would say, in the
[26:20] Speaker 1: last twenty years on whether or not like people are
[26:24] Speaker 1: having spiritual experiences, like if they're having out of body
[26:27] Speaker 1: experiences when they're near death and things like that. You've
[26:31] Speaker 1: probably heard me talk about the Aware Project. Those are
[26:33] Speaker 1: my two favorite studies. Have you read those papers yet?
[26:38] Speaker 4: I haven't had time to read them because of them,
[26:41] Speaker 4: doing my own studying on what I think about Jesus
[26:44] Speaker 4: and all the misconceptions people have. Just also trying to
[26:48] Speaker 4: get myself out of the mindset of fundamentalist Christianity.
[26:53] Speaker 6: Because I had a traumatic moment that had my club
[26:57] Speaker 6: to Jesus moment.
[26:58] Speaker 4: So you know, it's hard ripping yourself out of those
[27:02] Speaker 4: heightened emotions.
[27:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly I understand that. Okay. So in the Aware Project,
[27:11] Speaker 1: what they did and there was other studies that did
[27:12] Speaker 1: similar things, they retrofitted twenty five The first study was
[27:16] Speaker 1: twenty five different hospitals with cards and things like that
[27:19] Speaker 1: you could only see if you had left your body
[27:21] Speaker 1: and you were like looking down, you wouldn't be able
[27:24] Speaker 1: to see if you're on the operating table looking up.
[27:26] Speaker 1: And then when people had cardiac arrest and then they
[27:29] Speaker 1: were brought back to life and claimed that they had
[27:31] Speaker 1: these near death experiences and they left your body and whatnot,
[27:34] Speaker 1: they were questioned surveyed on whether or not they could
[27:37] Speaker 1: ever validate the out body experience by validating anything they
[27:41] Speaker 1: saw while they were looking down, and it turns out
[27:44] Speaker 1: nobody ever did. And then they ran the study again.
[27:48] Speaker 1: It just concluded in twenty twenty three and basically the
[27:52] Speaker 1: same result. The lead researcher, Sam Parnia, did quite a
[27:56] Speaker 1: bit of write up on this. His suggestion is that
[27:59] Speaker 1: the brain is filled in gaps and that it stays
[28:02] Speaker 1: conscious much longer after what we would consider clinically dead
[28:08] Speaker 1: than most people realize, which is accounting for this idea. Now,
[28:13] Speaker 1: as far as I know, if people could validate leaving
[28:18] Speaker 1: their body, this would be the best evidence for the
[28:21] Speaker 1: spirit world, right, because we can say, look, people are
[28:24] Speaker 1: leaving their body and they're having experiences outside of their body.
[28:29] Speaker 1: That would be really crazy if that was happening, right,
[28:31] Speaker 1: But until such a study can produce that evidence. I
[28:35] Speaker 1: personally don't have a reason to believe in spirits.
[28:38] Speaker 4: So this actually loops perfectly right back into this thing.
[28:47] Speaker 1: Send me callin. We lost your audio for just a second.
[28:49] Speaker 1: Can you say that again.
[28:53] Speaker 3: I don't think he.
[28:53] Speaker 1: Was so yeah it was. Your audio is good for
[28:59] Speaker 1: like the last twenty minutes, but right now, cut in
[29:01] Speaker 1: and out real quick.
[29:04] Speaker 6: Okay, sorry about that. So I don't think Jesus worship yeahwah.
[29:11] Speaker 3: I think he was looking Nazarine or a median or
[29:14] Speaker 3: you know, like I was saying before, like like sank people.
[29:17] Speaker 4: And I think because I have this background in biochemistry
[29:21] Speaker 4: and microbiology and pharmacology, there are a lot of things
[29:25] Speaker 4: in the Bible that I go, no, uh, that's that's this,
[29:29] Speaker 4: and everyone just kind of glosses over it, you know,
[29:32] Speaker 4: like and like just is thirty they mentioned like mandrake route.
[29:37] Speaker 3: Which is a non allucinogen.
[29:40] Speaker 1: Well to the ancient Near East, it was an aphrodisiac.
[29:45] Speaker 3: Yeah, after in the High Mounts it was a lucigen.
[29:49] Speaker 3: They also used it when they did their crew surgery
[29:52] Speaker 3: too well, for instance, like which.
[30:00] Speaker 4: He uses on the cross and they offer him drink, was.
[30:06] Speaker 1: It was vinegar wine.
[30:12] Speaker 3: That was in the sponge, right, mhm.
[30:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, so they typically gave that to people to deaden
[30:21] Speaker 1: the pain.
[30:24] Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, so want to murmer. He refused.
[30:34] Speaker 4: And when you when you mixed wine and together, it's
[30:37] Speaker 4: it's it's a product at dolls.
[30:39] Speaker 3: Dolls. You just said, and the doll is also a
[30:45] Speaker 3: bigger poison. Is that it is either either to the.
[30:48] Speaker 4: Aisle or were more and more mixed with the right right,
[30:51] Speaker 4: which was just prettretty common in the East.
[30:55] Speaker 3: But what was striking to me is that this dude
[30:58] Speaker 3: is dying and the thing that that would dull of pain.
[31:03] Speaker 4: He refuses to drink, right, but then they hold up
[31:07] Speaker 4: that sponge.
[31:09] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[31:12] Speaker 1: I'm hearing a couple of people on the YouTube streams
[31:14] Speaker 1: saying that there's an echo. Can is it when I
[31:19] Speaker 1: talk or when Semi colon talks, because you shouldn't be
[31:25] Speaker 1: able to hear an echo at all. I don't know
[31:30] Speaker 1: why anyone's hearing an echo right now. It's weird that
[31:35] Speaker 1: it's just now happening to.
[31:38] Speaker 3: H I haven't heard an echo.
[31:42] Speaker 1: TikTok says, everything's okay. They're saying the echo happens when
[31:48] Speaker 1: you're talking. Yeah, yeah, because you're because your phone connection
[31:52] Speaker 1: is terrible.
[31:54] Speaker 5: I'm sorry.
[31:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, well your your bar all read? Okay, that
[32:05] Speaker 1: makes sense. Well, listen, I think we've we've gone past
[32:09] Speaker 1: the actual topic at this point. As much as I'd
[32:11] Speaker 1: love to just use Bible banter, I think Bible banter
[32:15] Speaker 1: is interesting for you and I but not so much
[32:16] Speaker 1: for the audience.
[32:19] Speaker 3: But I'm just about to get to what you were
[32:22] Speaker 3: talking about. But it's all right, I understand.
[32:24] Speaker 1: I appreciate. I appreciate you coming by, and best of
[32:27] Speaker 1: luck on your journey. You know, I think it sounds
[32:30] Speaker 1: to me like you're just trying to figure out what's
[32:33] Speaker 1: true and what you believe, and I think all of
[32:35] Speaker 1: us are doing that for like literally ever. So I
[32:39] Speaker 1: appreciate you coming through and talking with us.
[32:42] Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it.
[32:44] Speaker 5: Man, have a good one.
[32:45] Speaker 1: Man all right, Sorry about the echo echoes probably should
[32:53] Speaker 1: be gone now, so I think that was just his
[32:58] Speaker 1: bad connection. This is our first live stream back on
[33:02] Speaker 1: TikTok since our account was banned. Not only was I
[33:09] Speaker 1: was I on vacation for a while, but my account
[33:13] Speaker 1: was banned for a while. I think my last two
[33:15] Speaker 1: or three TikTok streams was on my backup account, so
[33:19] Speaker 1: it might be kind of a small TikTok audience. I
[33:21] Speaker 1: don't know if I'm going to get any TikTok guests.
[33:23] Speaker 1: If you're watching on TikTok and you want to guest up,
[33:26] Speaker 1: just hit the guest request box. I'll get you into
[33:28] Speaker 1: the conversation. If not, we'll get you in on YouTube
[33:31] Speaker 1: using the method provided on the screen. And Parker, thank
[33:34] Speaker 1: you so much for the draft on TikTok. I appreciate that.
[33:37] Speaker 1: Also in the description of the video on YouTube, you'll
[33:41] Speaker 1: find a link that will allow you to join the
[33:43] Speaker 1: conversation as well. With that, I'm going to read just
[33:45] Speaker 1: a couple of super chats. We'll get our next guest
[33:47] Speaker 1: in here. Snowball, my friend says publishing the grill all week.
[33:50] Speaker 1: Now it's time to get my filth to get it
[33:53] Speaker 1: filthy again. Praise Doug. Hey, thank you so much, Snowball.
[33:56] Speaker 1: I appreciate that, and I hope you enjoy some cooking.
[33:59] Speaker 1: And Simeon says, congrats on officially being on boarded to
[34:03] Speaker 1: the line as a host. Well, I guess the secrets
[34:05] Speaker 1: out there. I love watching you here and I can't
[34:07] Speaker 1: wait to see you more there. Since since Simeon already
[34:12] Speaker 1: put the word out, I am going to be a
[34:15] Speaker 1: regular host on the line, just like I am on
[34:19] Speaker 1: the Atheist Experience, So be looking for me on the line.
[34:24] Speaker 1: Of course, when I host, i'll let people know that
[34:26] Speaker 1: i'm hosting over there. Meg my friend, great to see.
[34:28] Speaker 1: It's as long as two weeks ever had to listen
[34:30] Speaker 1: to repeat cooking episodes. I'm sorry, Meg, I apologize I
[34:34] Speaker 1: followed it, but we're back. We're back, and we're cooking.
[34:37] Speaker 1: A Who'd sent out five d Z debate gifted memberships.
[34:41] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. A Who the Left is great to
[34:43] Speaker 1: see you also, el Teene my friend, thank you so
[34:46] Speaker 1: much for the fifty dollars super chat. That is huge,
[34:50] Speaker 1: says Glad you got that VAKA out of your system.
[34:52] Speaker 1: So no more vacations until the Andromatic Galaxy pays us
[34:56] Speaker 1: a visit. Right, maybe I'll pray about it. Hope you
[34:59] Speaker 1: had fun and looking forward to hearing more. Welcome back,
[35:03] Speaker 1: and I'm going to be introducing a new topic this
[35:06] Speaker 1: week as well. I think it's going to be a
[35:08] Speaker 1: lot of fun. Thank you so much, Elt and I
[35:10] Speaker 1: really appreciate the fifty dollars super chat and also a
[35:12] Speaker 1: forty nine to ninety nine dollars super chat from our
[35:14] Speaker 1: friend Maximilian. Great to see you, friend, and thank you
[35:17] Speaker 1: so so much for the general superchat since we missed you, buddy,
[35:21] Speaker 1: but hope you had a fabulous vacation. We're hungry start
[35:24] Speaker 1: cooking rock hard for Doug. Well, hell yeah, we we're
[35:27] Speaker 1: gonna do everything we can, Maximilian. We we've got the
[35:31] Speaker 1: live stream open. We are rocking and rolling now, and
[35:35] Speaker 1: Goddess of rebels, thank you for the twenty hours super chest.
[35:37] Speaker 1: Why is it so hard to solve a redneck schmirder?
[35:40] Speaker 1: The DNA on that just no dental records. Listen, I've
[35:44] Speaker 1: been I've been chastised a little bit for making fun
[35:47] Speaker 1: of rednecks, But listen, half my family is from the holler.
[35:50] Speaker 1: And when I say a holler, I mean that this
[35:53] Speaker 1: is a real problem in my genetics, So big w
[35:57] Speaker 1: on the joke. I do appreciate that I have the
[36:00] Speaker 1: genetics I can make fun of it. And Solar says
[36:03] Speaker 1: the Earth is perfect for life, so god, oh yeah,
[36:06] Speaker 1: here we go. Look at their cheries. Right, People need
[36:08] Speaker 1: to do research there have been lots of mass extinction
[36:11] Speaker 1: events and humanity almost one hundred thousand years ago.
[36:14] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[36:14] Speaker 1: Actually that's a really good point because like if the
[36:17] Speaker 1: earth or this habitat is finely tuned for life, it's
[36:20] Speaker 1: weird that, like we just were constantly on the edge
[36:24] Speaker 1: of being wiped out. And last one from our friend Miko.
[36:27] Speaker 1: Great to see you, my friend says, welcome back. I'm
[36:30] Speaker 1: glad I came, but all the same, I must speak
[36:33] Speaker 1: going as Groucho might sing to my bed, I'm sorry
[36:37] Speaker 1: to bed in my case, catching up tomorrow. I hope
[36:39] Speaker 1: you enjoyed your holiday. Well, thank you, Mike. I appreciate that,
[36:41] Speaker 1: and I hope that you get the sleep that you need.
[36:43] Speaker 1: Don't don't let my voice keep you from getting the rest.
[36:47] Speaker 1: Rest is one of the most important things you can
[36:49] Speaker 1: do for your body. All right, let's get our next
[36:51] Speaker 1: guest is going to be Witty Noggins into the discussions.
[36:55] Speaker 1: How you doing witty?
[36:58] Speaker 2: Hey do good man? He do good man?
[37:00] Speaker 1: Are you doing good? Thank you for asking? What do
[37:01] Speaker 1: you are at least eighteen? And do you believe in
[37:03] Speaker 1: some kind of a god?
[37:05] Speaker 2: I'm thirty four and thirty four?
[37:06] Speaker 1: Ye yeah, God?
[37:07] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[37:10] Speaker 1: What would be the most compelling evidence or argument for
[37:13] Speaker 1: the Christian God being really.
[37:18] Speaker 2: Well, I would say, well, I would say Abrahammer and
[37:20] Speaker 2: Abrahammer religion, in my opinion, will have Paus God God
[37:26] Speaker 2: just in my my the other praier of the religions.
[37:29] Speaker 2: And then when you get onto that too, that I
[37:30] Speaker 2: would say, I would say there was something about it,
[37:33] Speaker 2: something about Jesus. I mean, he seems to be the
[37:36] Speaker 2: most person.
[37:39] Speaker 1: People are saying that there's an echo again, let me
[37:41] Speaker 1: see what going on here?
[37:43] Speaker 5: Why why would there be an.
[37:44] Speaker 2: Echo because you're like flying through space right now right now,
[37:59] Speaker 2: I don't know.
[37:59] Speaker 3: I'm gonna say the fact that in at the universe.
[38:07] Speaker 1: All right, one second, I apologize for that. I apologize
[38:11] Speaker 1: for that. I think I know what the problem is.
[38:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't hear an echo through through this one though.
[38:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it should be good. Now, I had
[38:23] Speaker 1: two audio sources running at the same time.
[38:27] Speaker 5: By accident. We should be.
[38:29] Speaker 1: Good to go. Now, everyone, let me know if the
[38:32] Speaker 1: echo is fixed, it's gonna take about twenty three seconds
[38:36] Speaker 1: for the chat to catch up. Though I apologize, there's
[38:39] Speaker 1: like a twenty three to twenty five second delay on
[38:42] Speaker 1: the on the latency for the feed. All right, it
[38:46] Speaker 1: should be good. Now, that's that's my fault. Friends, I apologize.
[38:49] Speaker 1: I had an extra audio source turned on that I
[38:52] Speaker 1: forgot to turn off before I started to streams. Mess
[38:55] Speaker 1: my bad. All right, witty noggins, we're back at it again.
[38:59] Speaker 1: So witty, where do we leave off?
[39:04] Speaker 2: Why I Why I believe what I believe?
[39:07] Speaker 1: Right? Yeah, so you're you're a Christian and so what
[39:11] Speaker 1: would be like what what's the thing that convinces you
[39:14] Speaker 1: that Christianity is true? And should it convince me?
[39:20] Speaker 2: Well, for example, you know, let's say that the biblical
[39:25] Speaker 2: narrative is true. Right, you got God and then you
[39:27] Speaker 2: got an adversary Satan. Okay, there's a lot of different
[39:32] Speaker 2: routes I could go with this, but just for me personally,
[39:36] Speaker 2: it seems obvious there was something with Jesus, right what
[39:40] Speaker 2: he had, Like, well, he had like a three year
[39:44] Speaker 2: ministry where he performed miracles, you know, he claimed to
[39:49] Speaker 2: be he made he made claims to be you know,
[39:54] Speaker 2: timeless in divine and why does.
[39:57] Speaker 1: Why does any of that special? Like there's lots of
[39:59] Speaker 1: miracle workers from the time period, sure.
[40:03] Speaker 2: For sure, but he's the only one that claimed that
[40:07] Speaker 2: he could give everlasting life, and two thousand years.
[40:10] Speaker 1: Later he never did it. That's the problem. Making the
[40:14] Speaker 1: claim is useless unless you do it.
[40:18] Speaker 2: Well, if you mean everlasting life, as in you'll never
[40:21] Speaker 2: age and live on the earth forever, then he didn't
[40:24] Speaker 2: do that.
[40:25] Speaker 1: What did he do to demonstrate that he's going to
[40:29] Speaker 1: give people everlasting life? Because I don't see. Well, first like,
[40:34] Speaker 1: he certainly didn't do that. But that's not remotely related
[40:38] Speaker 1: to what we're talking about. Right, Why would I believe
[40:40] Speaker 1: that Jesus is giving other human beings everlasting life when
[40:43] Speaker 1: people are still dying at the same rate they always have.
[40:47] Speaker 2: Well, he doesn't mean everlasting life as in you won't
[40:50] Speaker 2: ever age and depart from this earth. He means everlasting
[40:55] Speaker 2: life an eternity.
[40:56] Speaker 1: Right, so, right, But what's the evidence of that truthful?
[41:00] Speaker 1: Like making the claim is that he's just telling.
[41:02] Speaker 2: Me what he claims, right, So, I think it's different
[41:04] Speaker 2: than the other religions. Where the other religions, but we just.
[41:07] Speaker 1: Just pay attention no one. No one's asking what's unique
[41:10] Speaker 1: about Christianity. I'm asking what makes it true?
[41:15] Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, what makes Christianity true? Well, I guess it'd
[41:20] Speaker 2: be different for everyone, right, Like my view would be different.
[41:23] Speaker 2: I think, I'm sure you're aware of like doctor Craig's,
[41:27] Speaker 2: you know, arguments for God. You know, it's like five
[41:33] Speaker 2: five arguments, like the cosmological, fine tuning, moral objective.
[41:39] Speaker 1: Are you gonna run one of the arguments or what?
[41:43] Speaker 2: Yeah, the cosmological I mean basically, God's the best explanation
[41:46] Speaker 2: of the origin of the universe. He's the best explanation
[41:50] Speaker 2: for the fine tuning for intelligence.
[41:51] Speaker 1: That makes them the best explanation.
[41:55] Speaker 2: Well, because if if God or something didn't create everything,
[41:59] Speaker 2: then what's the other options?
[42:00] Speaker 1: Existed forever? Which seems to be in line with science
[42:03] Speaker 1: and logic.
[42:05] Speaker 2: Eternal universe? Okay, but it logically, I don't think it
[42:13] Speaker 2: makes sense because the observable universe is finite in the past.
[42:17] Speaker 2: If I'm not mistaken, right, the unobservable universe.
[42:21] Speaker 1: Why would I believe that the unobservable or that the
[42:24] Speaker 1: observable universe once didn't exist.
[42:29] Speaker 2: I'm saying the observable universe is expanding.
[42:32] Speaker 5: I agree.
[42:32] Speaker 2: And so if it's expanding and you put that in reverse,
[42:38] Speaker 2: if you you know, if it's contracting infinitely, then that
[42:43] Speaker 2: seems like a contradiction or.
[42:45] Speaker 1: I didn't say that doing the infinitely, So I'm not
[42:48] Speaker 1: sure where you got that from. Why would I believe that?
[42:53] Speaker 1: Like I think if you if you throw a rock
[42:56] Speaker 1: into a pond, the ripples come out from the center
[42:59] Speaker 1: point right, Yeah, and then if you reverse that, the
[43:04] Speaker 1: ripples all go back into the center, right. Did the
[43:10] Speaker 1: pond not exist before the ripples came out?
[43:16] Speaker 2: We'll sure, but that I don't know if that analogy that's.
[43:18] Speaker 1: A great analogy, because like you don't have a good
[43:21] Speaker 1: argument to demonstrate that before the expansion of the universe
[43:24] Speaker 1: there was nothing. The reality is, there's one hundred other
[43:27] Speaker 1: configurations the universe could have been in before the current expansion.
[43:32] Speaker 1: It could be an endless cycle. You know. Back in
[43:35] Speaker 1: like the early two thousands, I think they used to
[43:39] Speaker 1: refer to it as rebound theory or cyclical universe. I
[43:45] Speaker 1: think now the common terminology is big bang, big crunch.
[43:49] Speaker 1: But I failed to see why this is not a
[43:53] Speaker 1: more viable solution than a magic man in a sky
[43:56] Speaker 1: that we have no evidence for.
[44:00] Speaker 2: Well, I don't. I wouldn't say a magic man in
[44:04] Speaker 2: the sky. I would say it's the same thing as
[44:06] Speaker 2: the universe idea that there's some kind of eternal cause. Right,
[44:12] Speaker 2: everything that begins has a cause. So to say that
[44:18] Speaker 2: the universe, but it has just always been around and
[44:21] Speaker 2: created with anything, You.
[44:22] Speaker 1: Keep going back to the same empty bar. What's the
[44:26] Speaker 1: evidence that it once didn't exist and needed to be
[44:29] Speaker 1: coming into an existence?
[44:34] Speaker 2: Well, I mean according to I mean it depends what
[44:36] Speaker 2: where you go with, right, Like, according to the Big Bang model, time, space, matter,
[44:40] Speaker 2: energy all came into being at a time like a specific.
[44:43] Speaker 1: It certainly did not. That's not the Big Bang model.
[44:46] Speaker 1: Big Big model doesn't say there was nothing and then
[44:48] Speaker 1: it poofed something. It's not Big bang. Big Bang says.
[44:52] Speaker 2: I'm not saying nothing. I'm saying something outside of time
[44:57] Speaker 2: and space had to create time, no time, if there
[45:02] Speaker 2: was a beginning.
[45:03] Speaker 1: The Big Bang is an explanation for the expansion of
[45:07] Speaker 1: the universe. It's not an explanation of what was before
[45:10] Speaker 1: the expansion.
[45:14] Speaker 2: Okay, I guess, I guess in simpler terms, I think
[45:17] Speaker 2: that something can't come from nothing.
[45:19] Speaker 1: I agree, I don't think there was ever nothing. Okay,
[45:25] Speaker 1: so you can't get something from nothing. Therefore there was
[45:27] Speaker 1: never nothing, therefore no need for a god.
[45:32] Speaker 2: Well, no, I think I think therefore God seems to
[45:35] Speaker 2: be the only option.
[45:37] Speaker 1: If the universe always existed, why in the world do
[45:40] Speaker 1: we need a god to create it? This is where
[45:45] Speaker 1: this is where the god of the gaps argument just
[45:47] Speaker 1: isn't good. Right, So what you're suggesting is you think
[45:51] Speaker 1: because you know, somebody told you, right, not an actual scientist,
[45:55] Speaker 1: somebody told you that the Big Bang is the start
[45:58] Speaker 1: of matter, space, and time. Therefore some thing must be
[46:00] Speaker 1: the cause of that. And they say, look, there's a gap.
[46:03] Speaker 1: I'm going to stick my God into this gap. But
[46:05] Speaker 1: that's silly. Not only does your god not provide the
[46:08] Speaker 1: best explanation for that gap, we don't even know if
[46:11] Speaker 1: that gap is there.
[46:16] Speaker 2: So do you do you hold to an infinite universe
[46:20] Speaker 2: with a like an evolutionary.
[46:22] Speaker 1: View, Yeah, an eternal universe an evolution seems to be
[46:26] Speaker 1: obviously true.
[46:29] Speaker 2: So how many years did it take in an infinite
[46:33] Speaker 2: universe to get to the present time?
[46:36] Speaker 1: An infinite number.
[46:39] Speaker 2: So it took infinite years for us to get to
[46:40] Speaker 2: the present.
[46:41] Speaker 1: This is the problem you have. You're doing a category
[46:43] Speaker 1: era right now. You're saying that there is a start
[46:46] Speaker 1: of infinity and there's not.
[46:53] Speaker 2: Okay, Well, once again. That's like, if we're eternal in
[46:57] Speaker 2: the past, then it would take infinite years to get
[47:00] Speaker 2: to where we're at now.
[47:01] Speaker 1: At now, okay, every moment that exists is on a
[47:08] Speaker 1: finite piece of the timeline. There's no start to infinity.
[47:12] Speaker 1: You can't measure from the start of infinity, just like
[47:14] Speaker 1: you can't measure to the end of infinity. There's no
[47:18] Speaker 1: starter or end to infinities. So you can't measure from
[47:21] Speaker 1: the beginning of infinities now because it's a category error.
[47:24] Speaker 1: There is no such thing as the beginning of infinity.
[47:31] Speaker 2: Right, which is where I get I guess kind of confused.
[47:34] Speaker 2: In an eternal universe, right, at what point, right an
[47:43] Speaker 2: infinite past did creation or evolutions start to begin? And
[47:47] Speaker 2: how many years you know what I mean? How many
[47:49] Speaker 2: years did it take?
[47:51] Speaker 1: Four four billion years ago?
[47:54] Speaker 2: Okay, so from four billion years ago when evolutions started
[47:59] Speaker 2: before that? And I mean, how who created that? Like
[48:04] Speaker 2: how did that come into being?
[48:05] Speaker 1: What come into being? These What you're doing now is
[48:10] Speaker 1: just an argument from incredulity. You're just saying I don't
[48:13] Speaker 1: understand evolution. There for a god, you can't think that
[48:15] Speaker 1: that's a winning argument.
[48:17] Speaker 2: Get your view I guess because it's.
[48:20] Speaker 1: Evolutions is like one of the most like tried and true,
[48:25] Speaker 1: like scientifically examined things of the modern era. Like the
[48:31] Speaker 1: DNA evidence alone demonstrates that we all have common ancestry.
[48:35] Speaker 1: Have you heard of indogenous dictroviruses, indogenous retroviruses?
[48:44] Speaker 2: I'm not sure.
[48:46] Speaker 1: So when somebody gets like a virus or some sort
[48:49] Speaker 1: of foreign invader into their body, it can actually get
[48:53] Speaker 1: into their DNA, it can actually splice or modify the
[48:57] Speaker 1: existing person's DNA. And what's it Since I your genome,
[49:00] Speaker 1: it just replicates and then you pass it on to
[49:03] Speaker 1: your children, right, And they're pretty easy to identify because
[49:06] Speaker 1: you can see the beginning and the end of the
[49:09] Speaker 1: foreign DNA, how it got spliced into the existing DNA.
[49:14] Speaker 1: And we've actually, like scientists have purposely caused ERVs so
[49:20] Speaker 1: they can study human laboratory. We're really good at identifying them.
[49:23] Speaker 1: That being said, human beings, all human beings share like
[49:29] Speaker 1: two hundred and thirteen ERVs, which is really interesting. That
[49:34] Speaker 1: means all of us came from the same stock of
[49:37] Speaker 1: blood at some point in the past. That was a
[49:40] Speaker 1: great thing about the Human Genome Project. Now, the funny
[49:45] Speaker 1: thing is a great majority of those ERVs. We also
[49:49] Speaker 1: share with the Great Apes, meaning we shared blood with
[49:53] Speaker 1: the majority of the Great Apes in the past as well,
[49:57] Speaker 1: because there's no other possibility for us to have like
[50:02] Speaker 1: one hundred and like ninety something er vs shared with
[50:05] Speaker 1: Great Apes unless we shared blood at one point.
[50:15] Speaker 2: Okay e year of views or what again?
[50:19] Speaker 1: I'm sure indrogynous retroviruses.
[50:22] Speaker 2: Okay, So do you think that because I mean without
[50:27] Speaker 2: his you know, within history, I mean, science keeps updating
[50:31] Speaker 2: and the consensus might be one way, and then you know,
[50:35] Speaker 2: science keeps evolving, you know what I mean. So I
[50:37] Speaker 2: don't think it's a fact or correct me if I'm wrong,
[50:40] Speaker 2: but scientifically right that the universe is for sure eternal.
[50:43] Speaker 3: Right.
[50:43] Speaker 2: This is just a theory, right of the universe potentially
[50:48] Speaker 2: being internal in the.
[50:49] Speaker 1: Past, a theory that has evidence in its favor, whereas
[50:53] Speaker 1: the God hypothesis has no evidence. Your only evidence for
[50:56] Speaker 1: the God hypothesis is let me find a gap to
[50:59] Speaker 1: stuff stiff stuff film in.
[51:04] Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think creation itself is proof of God.
[51:07] Speaker 2: I mean, do you I think that the universe had
[51:09] Speaker 2: a beginning?
[51:11] Speaker 1: Demons demonstrate that the universe once didn't exist and that
[51:14] Speaker 1: a god created it.
[51:17] Speaker 2: Well, I'm a truth seeker, right, Like, I'm open to
[51:20] Speaker 2: being wrong, but I'm just saying if I'm going going
[51:22] Speaker 2: off just being logical and plausible, like I think that
[51:26] Speaker 2: a being that was outside time and space creating everything
[51:30] Speaker 2: with with you know, the mathematics, but.
[51:34] Speaker 1: Intelligence, what is the what's the evidence that would demonstrate
[51:38] Speaker 1: that such a being existed and that it did what
[51:41] Speaker 1: you're suggesting it did.
[51:44] Speaker 2: Well, I mean, what's the evidence of a painting on
[51:46] Speaker 2: the wall having a painter? Right, I would say the painting,
[51:49] Speaker 2: like I just I think the universe itself.
[51:51] Speaker 1: Do we know how paintings come into being?
[51:56] Speaker 2: Well, that's everything that begins.
[51:57] Speaker 5: But do we have evidence of how.
[52:00] Speaker 1: Things come into being? Okay, and we know that paintings
[52:05] Speaker 1: come in We know that paintings come into being because
[52:09] Speaker 1: we know what painters do when we watch them do it. Right,
[52:12] Speaker 1: So can you can you distinguish between a painting and
[52:16] Speaker 1: a mud puddle?
[52:20] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[52:20] Speaker 2: I mean of course I can.
[52:22] Speaker 1: But what's the difference between a painting and a mud puddle?
[52:26] Speaker 2: Okay, so a painting was done by a painter. A
[52:29] Speaker 2: mud puddle is more of a natural thing.
[52:32] Speaker 3: That happens.
[52:32] Speaker 1: Okay, one is essentially self generating and one is the
[52:37] Speaker 1: cause of biological entities creating it.
[52:42] Speaker 2: Right, sure, I mean do you think it's impossible.
[52:46] Speaker 1: For well, looking out at the universe, why would I
[52:49] Speaker 1: say that that the universe is a painting and not
[52:52] Speaker 1: a mud puddle?
[52:55] Speaker 7: Well?
[52:55] Speaker 2: Sure either way, if it's a painting or a mud puddle,
[52:57] Speaker 2: I mean who created the mud or the at all?
[53:00] Speaker 1: It? Could the universe always existed? We already covered this
[53:03] Speaker 1: witty like you before you before you can go to
[53:08] Speaker 1: there was once no universe and then poof universe, because
[53:12] Speaker 1: my god, you need to demonstrate you need to demonstrate
[53:17] Speaker 1: that that would be the case. We already addressed the
[53:19] Speaker 1: expansion of the universe. Like I think you were here
[53:21] Speaker 1: for that part of the conversation, weren't you.
[53:23] Speaker 2: Well yeah, well once again, right, Like, let me ask
[53:28] Speaker 2: you this, if there was a beginning to the universe, would.
[53:32] Speaker 3: That be.
[53:34] Speaker 2: Proof that there is some kind of being or created?
[53:37] Speaker 1: Could still wouldn't Even if you could demonstrate that the
[53:39] Speaker 1: universe there was once nothing and then there was material
[53:42] Speaker 1: time and space, that still wouldn't demonstrate that it came
[53:45] Speaker 1: from a god, especially that the biblical God like. It
[53:49] Speaker 1: could just be a naturalistic phenomenon. It could just be
[53:51] Speaker 1: something that happens naturally because of because of quantum fields.
[53:58] Speaker 1: Quantum fields and in fact to produce material. Right, but
[54:03] Speaker 1: where did all these come from? You know, all this
[54:05] Speaker 1: energy and frequent it's just a matter, and energy can't
[54:08] Speaker 1: be created or destroyed. Again, there's there's no science on
[54:13] Speaker 1: your side here, there's none.
[54:15] Speaker 2: I would disagree.
[54:16] Speaker 1: We name it. Name the science.
[54:17] Speaker 2: I think science explained.
[54:18] Speaker 1: Name the science that science explains.
[54:20] Speaker 2: Design, you know, and and science isn't going to explain.
[54:25] Speaker 1: You know what came wit he name the science. I've
[54:31] Speaker 1: been waiting this entire time for you to give one
[54:33] Speaker 1: piece of evidence that agrees with your position. I have
[54:37] Speaker 1: yet to hear it yet.
[54:40] Speaker 2: Science just explains the design and how it works. It
[54:43] Speaker 2: doesn't explain. It doesn't explain how before, like the chicken
[54:48] Speaker 2: or the egg, what came first? Right, It explains how
[54:51] Speaker 2: a chicken has an egg and then in a seed
[54:54] Speaker 2: you know, produces a tree.
[54:55] Speaker 3: Right.
[54:56] Speaker 2: It doesn't tell you how they all came here, and
[54:59] Speaker 2: initially it does.
[55:01] Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, science literally does do that. So what I'm
[55:03] Speaker 1: asking for is find me a piece of science. A
[55:06] Speaker 1: piece of evidence or a piece of logical thought that
[55:10] Speaker 1: would lead me to conclude that what you believe is true,
[55:13] Speaker 1: because I haven't heard it yet. The only thing I've
[55:14] Speaker 1: heard so far is you don't like science. Therefore, God
[55:21] Speaker 1: the name some science that will support your theory.
[55:25] Speaker 2: Everything that begins has a call.
[55:26] Speaker 1: Again, you have no way to demonstrate that it began.
[55:29] Speaker 1: What's the evidence that the universe began? I just this crazy. Okay,
[55:37] Speaker 1: it's like we're in a miracle around now. Okay. Number one,
[55:40] Speaker 1: you can't get something from nothing. We have something, therefore nothing.
[55:43] Speaker 1: Number two, Matter and energy can't be created nor destroyed.
[55:48] Speaker 1: I have no reason to believe that there was ever
[55:51] Speaker 1: such a thing as nothing. And I know that I
[55:55] Speaker 1: know that universe exists. This is the starting point, right
[55:58] Speaker 1: So I know for a fact that the universe exists. Right,
[56:02] Speaker 1: So for me to believe that the universe once didn't exist,
[56:06] Speaker 1: I need some kind of logical argument or scientific fact
[56:10] Speaker 1: that would lead me to believe that the universe once
[56:13] Speaker 1: did not exist.
[56:16] Speaker 2: Right once again, I mean, and we can switch to it.
[56:18] Speaker 2: I got a couple other points. If if we if
[56:22] Speaker 2: we don't want to come here on this all right,
[56:24] Speaker 2: So once again, right, like the way, the way, and look,
[56:28] Speaker 2: you might have a lot more understanding within the scientific
[56:31] Speaker 2: community and stuff with the updated whatever than I do.
[56:35] Speaker 2: I'm just saying more of like from a philosophical point, right, Like,
[56:41] Speaker 2: even even if the universe did have a beginning and
[56:44] Speaker 2: wasn't here, there would have to be something, and it's
[56:46] Speaker 2: like something outside of time and space, right, or some
[56:49] Speaker 2: kind of cause in a different round.
[56:51] Speaker 1: How do you have a cause and effect outside of time?
[56:57] Speaker 3: Right?
[56:57] Speaker 2: If something would have to be timeless and.
[56:59] Speaker 1: Space, how do you have a cause and effect without time?
[57:03] Speaker 1: Time is the progression of events. There's no cause and
[57:06] Speaker 1: effect outside of time, right.
[57:08] Speaker 2: Because time to create something, it predates, right, So you'd.
[57:11] Speaker 1: Have to so time time must always exist, right.
[57:16] Speaker 2: Sure, So let's say, hypothetically, do you.
[57:20] Speaker 1: Believe that Einstein is correct when he says that space
[57:23] Speaker 1: time is a continuum.
[57:30] Speaker 2: It's been a minute, you know, like the theory of relativity,
[57:33] Speaker 2: for example, the faster you go towards light, right, then
[57:37] Speaker 2: this flower time.
[57:38] Speaker 1: I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about space time.
[57:40] Speaker 1: You are Are you of the opinion that science is
[57:45] Speaker 1: correct when it says that space and time are a web,
[57:49] Speaker 1: a continuum, they're interlinked. Okay, so then what that means
[57:55] Speaker 1: that space and time always existed. Now we're getting even further.
[58:01] Speaker 2: Okay, but let me ask you something. Is this impossible?
[58:03] Speaker 5: Right?
[58:04] Speaker 2: An eternal being? That an eternal being outside of time? Okay,
[58:09] Speaker 2: that's an internal state like the speed of light.
[58:12] Speaker 1: Right, the speed of light an internal state.
[58:15] Speaker 2: Oh, I'm just trying to you know. Let's say in
[58:19] Speaker 2: a state where there is no aging, there is no time, right,
[58:22] Speaker 2: eternal that that being couldn't create. No, the universe and with.
[58:29] Speaker 1: It couldn't do anything. You can't do anything without time.
[58:33] Speaker 1: Without time, there's no progression of event.
[58:35] Speaker 2: But an eternal universe could create something within itself.
[58:40] Speaker 1: The universe always existed, which means time always existed. The
[58:46] Speaker 1: universe doesn't create itself. It just always existed. The same
[58:50] Speaker 1: way you think your God always existed. The difference is,
[58:53] Speaker 1: I know the universe exists. You have no reason to
[58:56] Speaker 1: believe for God exists. I do.
[59:00] Speaker 2: Actually, let's go to it.
[59:01] Speaker 1: I get to hear one argument for why your God exists.
[59:05] Speaker 1: The best you've got so far is God of the gaps?
[59:08] Speaker 1: Is God of the gaps? All you got?
[59:10] Speaker 2: Well, I'm saying there's a God that's a turner, there's
[59:13] Speaker 2: a universe that's.
[59:13] Speaker 3: A turn because.
[59:16] Speaker 5: I know what you believe the same thing.
[59:19] Speaker 1: Restating what you believe is not an argument. I need
[59:21] Speaker 1: to hear the argument that demonstrates what you're saying is true.
[59:27] Speaker 3: Right.
[59:27] Speaker 2: Once once again, I don't want to go. Can we
[59:29] Speaker 2: switch to a different question real quick? Because once again,
[59:32] Speaker 2: I think your view of the universe being eternal, my
[59:34] Speaker 2: view of God being eternal, okay, is very similar. Actually
[59:42] Speaker 2: you're talking about to eternal states, just different views on
[59:45] Speaker 2: what that is.
[59:46] Speaker 3: Right, So.
[59:48] Speaker 2: The one would be.
[59:50] Speaker 1: But do you know that none of this gives you
[59:51] Speaker 1: the Christianity either, right, Well, if you.
[59:56] Speaker 2: Can get to in a gnostic or a theist view,
[1:00:00] Speaker 2: or at least open to that, then you can get
[1:00:02] Speaker 2: to you know, there's no reason to debate denominations, and
[1:00:07] Speaker 2: you know which if you.
[1:00:07] Speaker 1: Don't even know, none of this, none of this gets
[1:00:10] Speaker 1: you to Christianity. Christianity is dead in the water. It's false,
[1:00:13] Speaker 1: no matter what you're doing here with your God of
[1:00:15] Speaker 1: the gaps argument.
[1:00:19] Speaker 2: Okay, So let's go to the like moral objectives. I mean,
[1:00:23] Speaker 2: that's a you know you don't like, Okay, I don't know.
[1:00:26] Speaker 1: Okay, demonstrate that objective morals exist.
[1:00:29] Speaker 2: Okay, Well, if it's if I feel that God is
[1:00:32] Speaker 2: the best explanation for a standard of right and wrong right,
[1:00:35] Speaker 2: otherwise it's subjected.
[1:00:35] Speaker 1: Don't believe there is a standard. Demonstrate that the standard exists.
[1:00:41] Speaker 2: You don't think that there is an objective right or wrong?
[1:00:43] Speaker 1: No, That's why I asked you twice to demonstrate that
[1:00:45] Speaker 1: it does actually exist. Where can I find it?
[1:00:49] Speaker 2: Well, I think it's built into our conscious you know,
[1:00:51] Speaker 2: like that.
[1:00:52] Speaker 5: Certainly not don't want to get into detailed, but like,
[1:00:54] Speaker 5: uh that that literally.
[1:00:56] Speaker 1: Can't be true because society has never societies have never
[1:01:00] Speaker 1: agreed ever as to what you know right and wrong
[1:01:03] Speaker 1: behavior is. For a long time, people thought that it
[1:01:06] Speaker 1: was okay to kidnap women. Those are all things that
[1:01:10] Speaker 1: God does. God does that in the Bible, he.
[1:01:14] Speaker 2: Does, He does not, He doesn't, he doesn't child traffic.
[1:01:17] Speaker 1: He does number thirty one.
[1:01:19] Speaker 3: Have you read it?
[1:01:22] Speaker 2: Well, it's been nice as I read numbers. But we
[1:01:24] Speaker 2: can play it up.
[1:01:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, number thirty one is a wild one. So let
[1:01:28] Speaker 1: me let me show you what happens in number thirty one.
[1:01:31] Speaker 1: He does exactly the thing that you said is like immortal. Says,
[1:01:37] Speaker 1: they did battle against Midian, as the Lord had commanded
[1:01:40] Speaker 1: Moses uh and killed every male. They killed the kings
[1:01:45] Speaker 1: of Midian. Then they listened the names of the kings, says.
[1:01:48] Speaker 1: The Israelites took the women of Midian and their little
[1:01:51] Speaker 1: ones captive, and they plundered all their cattle, their flocks,
[1:01:55] Speaker 1: and all of their goods.
[1:01:56] Speaker 5: Okay.
[1:01:57] Speaker 1: So they went and they despoiled all these towns, and
[1:02:00] Speaker 1: executed all the men, and kidnapped the women and the children,
[1:02:04] Speaker 1: says in verse twelve. Then they brought the captives and
[1:02:07] Speaker 1: the plunder and the spoil to Moses. To Elias are
[1:02:10] Speaker 1: the priest, and to the congregation of the Israelites at
[1:02:13] Speaker 1: the camp on the plains of Moab by the Jordan,
[1:02:15] Speaker 1: opposite of Jericho. Moses, Elias are the priests. And all
[1:02:18] Speaker 1: the leaders of the congregation went to meet them outside
[1:02:21] Speaker 1: the camp. Moses became angry with the officers of the army,
[1:02:24] Speaker 1: the commanders of thousands, commanders of hundreds who have come
[1:02:27] Speaker 1: from service war. Moses said, have you allowed all the
[1:02:29] Speaker 1: women to live? These women here on Baalim's advice made
[1:02:34] Speaker 1: the Israelites act treacherously against the Lord in the affair
[1:02:37] Speaker 1: of pure so that the plague came among the congregation
[1:02:40] Speaker 1: of the Lord. Now, therefore, kill every male among the
[1:02:44] Speaker 1: little ones. This is in Hebrew. Hataf is just referring
[1:02:48] Speaker 1: to children, all right, says, kill every male among the children,
[1:02:51] Speaker 1: and kill every woman who has known a man by
[1:02:55] Speaker 1: sleeping with him. Okay, Now that means the women and
[1:02:59] Speaker 1: the children are going to get murdered, says, But all
[1:03:02] Speaker 1: the young girls, little girls, children, girls who have not
[1:03:06] Speaker 1: known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves.
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: Huh.
[1:03:11] Speaker 1: So God and Moses distribute all these little virgin girls
[1:03:17] Speaker 1: among the warriors, and some of them to the priests,
[1:03:21] Speaker 1: and you know other people who work in service.
[1:03:25] Speaker 2: So okay.
[1:03:26] Speaker 3: So so.
[1:03:28] Speaker 2: If and here's here's what the answered. I'm not an
[1:03:32] Speaker 2: Old Testament scholar. I would love to go to like
[1:03:34] Speaker 2: any Jesus or New Testament verses and talk about that.
[1:03:37] Speaker 1: I would run away from this too.
[1:03:38] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:03:40] Speaker 2: Well I'm not running away. I mean this would be
[1:03:42] Speaker 2: the answer, okay, is if you just read that by itself, yeah,
[1:03:45] Speaker 2: I mean it looks horrible. But if God did warn
[1:03:49] Speaker 2: these people for hundreds and hundreds is horrible hold on,
[1:03:53] Speaker 2: hold on, if God did warn these people, okay, for
[1:03:57] Speaker 2: hundreds and hundred years, these people who didn't that they infiltrated,
[1:04:01] Speaker 2: were were murdering and raping in their horrible for society.
[1:04:06] Speaker 1: None of that happened. Were you listening to the passage?
[1:04:09] Speaker 1: He told you? He told you why he wanted them killed,
[1:04:13] Speaker 1: says they did battle against Midian as the Lord commanded
[1:04:16] Speaker 1: Moses and killed every male. They did this because of
[1:04:20] Speaker 1: what happened at Pere. Do you remember that incident? Pere
[1:04:25] Speaker 1: was years and when they were camped outside of Midian
[1:04:31] Speaker 1: in Moab, some of the women enticed the Israelites to
[1:04:39] Speaker 1: worship their gods and to engage in foreign activities, maybe
[1:04:48] Speaker 1: of the illicit variety. That being said, that's why they're
[1:04:52] Speaker 1: getting murdered, because some women participated in a bad act.
[1:04:59] Speaker 1: Not the children. Children did do anything wrong. They doesn't
[1:05:02] Speaker 1: even say anything. But the men or the men here
[1:05:05] Speaker 1: aren't declared to have done anything wrong either.
[1:05:09] Speaker 2: Okay, Well, once again, just hypothetically rock with me for
[1:05:11] Speaker 2: a second. Right, if these kids were going to grow
[1:05:16] Speaker 2: up and be just as wicked and evil as their
[1:05:18] Speaker 2: parents and their parents'.
[1:05:19] Speaker 1: Parents, demister that their parents were evil.
[1:05:23] Speaker 2: Okay, if God did you know, take life of these
[1:05:26] Speaker 2: kids and then they ended up going to heaven because
[1:05:30] Speaker 2: they were children, right, and it says that people are judged,
[1:05:35] Speaker 2: you know, although what they know, kids are innocent and
[1:05:39] Speaker 2: so you know, according to according to the biblical view, right,
[1:05:43] Speaker 2: like like children and people that are too young, right,
[1:05:48] Speaker 2: that that don't have the option to choose right or
[1:05:50] Speaker 2: wrong are shaves. And so if these kids were going
[1:05:55] Speaker 2: to grow up to be monsters and be wicked just
[1:05:58] Speaker 2: like their parents were, and then then not what be
[1:06:00] Speaker 2: actually merciful?
[1:06:01] Speaker 1: Merciful to be clear, It's okay to rape little children
[1:06:04] Speaker 1: girls as long as like, of course not they don't
[1:06:07] Speaker 1: grow up, of course. Okay, So so when when they
[1:06:12] Speaker 1: when they took these little virgin girls and distributed them
[1:06:15] Speaker 1: among the warriors, what makes that good?
[1:06:21] Speaker 5: I didn't, I'm not.
[1:06:22] Speaker 1: I'm not saying anything about the people who died, like
[1:06:24] Speaker 1: the fact that they genocided these people, that's horrible. We're
[1:06:27] Speaker 1: talking about the child trafficking right now, that's the topic
[1:06:30] Speaker 1: you brought up.
[1:06:32] Speaker 2: And what what should they do with these with these children?
[1:06:35] Speaker 1: Not marry them, not not distribute them as war brides.
[1:06:40] Speaker 1: Maybe how about they adopt them and turn them into
[1:06:42] Speaker 1: family members. Maybe you don't genocide their entire family.
[1:06:49] Speaker 2: Well once again, then I'm like I said, there's there's
[1:06:52] Speaker 2: some guys out here, some some scholars, Frank Turk, a
[1:06:55] Speaker 2: lot of these guys that explain this.
[1:06:57] Speaker 1: Really, no, he does not is a joke. I didn't
[1:07:03] Speaker 1: even I didn't find I didn't find Frank Churk to
[1:07:05] Speaker 1: be convincing. Even when I was a Christian. I read
[1:07:07] Speaker 1: his books way back when I was like nineteen, and
[1:07:11] Speaker 1: he had dogshit arguments. Even when I was a Christian,
[1:07:14] Speaker 1: I was embarrassed to even read his stuff in public.
[1:07:20] Speaker 2: Are you familiar with doctor Craig's work at all, William.
[1:07:22] Speaker 1: Lane Craig, I think his arguments are just as bad. Yeah,
[1:07:26] Speaker 1: really yeah. In fact, he doubles down. He's his argument
[1:07:30] Speaker 1: is almost identical to the argument you're making. It's okay
[1:07:34] Speaker 1: to genocide, to do these horrific things as long as
[1:07:37] Speaker 1: the people doing them upset the God that you believe in.
[1:07:41] Speaker 1: So you started this, remember what he we got here
[1:07:44] Speaker 1: because you were demonstrating to me that objective morals exist,
[1:07:48] Speaker 1: and you're trying to say that, well, child trafficking is
[1:07:51] Speaker 1: objectively immoral. Now, I'm showing you a passage in the
[1:07:56] Speaker 1: Bible where God is doing something that's objectively immoral.
[1:08:01] Speaker 2: Okay, But there's also a lot of context that's going
[1:08:04] Speaker 2: on with this, and I don't know. I don't know
[1:08:06] Speaker 2: what's going on.
[1:08:06] Speaker 5: Okay.
[1:08:06] Speaker 1: So do you take it back? You take back your
[1:08:08] Speaker 1: original claim that child trafficking is objectively immoral?
[1:08:13] Speaker 2: No, of course it's immoral, and that's what I'm saying.
[1:08:15] Speaker 2: So let's let's let's get away from this numbers real quick, okay,
[1:08:19] Speaker 2: and just rock with me. God, if he is perfect
[1:08:24] Speaker 2: and holy, okay, is the best standard for what's right
[1:08:27] Speaker 2: and wrong? You know what I mean? If if there
[1:08:30] Speaker 2: is no God, then there's no objective right and wrong,
[1:08:32] Speaker 2: which in your worldview you could be subjective. So who's
[1:08:35] Speaker 2: to say that traffic kids is wrong?
[1:08:39] Speaker 5: Right?
[1:08:40] Speaker 1: So I just want to make sure we're clear in
[1:08:42] Speaker 1: your worldview, is trafficking children objectively.
[1:08:46] Speaker 2: Wrong or no?
[1:08:47] Speaker 5: Yes?
[1:08:47] Speaker 2: Of course, of course it isn't.
[1:08:49] Speaker 1: Okay? Was it wrong when God did it?
[1:08:52] Speaker 7: Well?
[1:08:52] Speaker 2: Once again? Right? Like I don't I think you're missing.
[1:08:56] Speaker 5: Or yes or no? Question?
[1:08:57] Speaker 1: Was was it right or wrong when God? When God
[1:09:00] Speaker 1: had the Israelites to it?
[1:09:03] Speaker 2: But once again, right, you're straw man and you're trying
[1:09:07] Speaker 2: to make I'm not straw manning anything.
[1:09:09] Speaker 1: In the passage, God instructs them to distribute the women
[1:09:12] Speaker 1: to the warriors.
[1:09:15] Speaker 2: Well, once again, like I'd have to do some research
[1:09:17] Speaker 2: on that, like I'm not an Old Testament.
[1:09:19] Speaker 1: In verse twenty five, the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,
[1:09:23] Speaker 1: you and Elias are the priests and the heads of
[1:09:25] Speaker 1: the ancestral houses of the congregation. Make an inventory of
[1:09:28] Speaker 1: the plunder captured, both human and animal. Divide the plunder
[1:09:32] Speaker 1: into two parts, between the warriors who went out to
[1:09:35] Speaker 1: battle and all the congregation. The little virgin girls were
[1:09:39] Speaker 1: plundered that got divided according to God's word.
[1:09:45] Speaker 2: Gosh it. Yeah, once again, if your number still I'm
[1:09:48] Speaker 2: not sure. I'd have to get up the original language
[1:09:52] Speaker 2: too and check it out and see what it says.
[1:09:53] Speaker 1: And that's not going to help you anymore. You don't know, Hebrew.
[1:09:58] Speaker 2: Can you show me anything in the New Testament with
[1:10:00] Speaker 2: Jesus that that shows any kind of Jesus' similarities to
[1:10:04] Speaker 2: this Jesus God. He is the son of God. Yeah,
[1:10:08] Speaker 2: and he's divine in nature.
[1:10:09] Speaker 1: God is Jesus always in alignment with God the Father. Correct,
[1:10:17] Speaker 1: But Jesus was in alignment, and that's what I'm saying.
[1:10:19] Speaker 1: Jesus was in alignment with God and numbers thirty one.
[1:10:23] Speaker 2: Well, if you're going to take a five thousand year
[1:10:24] Speaker 2: old library and then pick up, you know, a couple,
[1:10:28] Speaker 2: I mean, I get how it sounds. But once again,
[1:10:31] Speaker 2: I've been through these It's been a while, right, but
[1:10:34] Speaker 2: I've come across quite a few people that have explained if.
[1:10:36] Speaker 1: Jesus and the Father are one, and the Father is
[1:10:39] Speaker 1: okay with distributing little virgin girls as spoils of war,
[1:10:43] Speaker 1: that means Jesus is okay with it too. So running
[1:10:46] Speaker 1: away to Jesus is not going to help you.
[1:10:47] Speaker 2: Here, gotcha. I'm I'm just trying to say that Jesus said,
[1:10:52] Speaker 2: if you want to know the Father like, he's the
[1:10:54] Speaker 2: best way for us to understand God. Where you're trying
[1:10:57] Speaker 2: to take a four thousand year old text and then
[1:11:00] Speaker 2: say this is God's character where, Yeah, there was there
[1:11:03] Speaker 2: was things that happened in the Old Testament. The whole
[1:11:05] Speaker 2: point was Jesus was predestined to come to bring salvation
[1:11:07] Speaker 2: to everybody.
[1:11:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, that didn't happen either, and that's that's a huge pivot.
[1:11:10] Speaker 1: I'm not gonna let you do it. So right now
[1:11:12] Speaker 1: we're still talking about the objective morals that you think exists.
[1:11:16] Speaker 1: You started by saying that it's objectively moral. I'm sorry,
[1:11:19] Speaker 1: it's objectively immoral. Traffic kids. Now we see in fact
[1:11:23] Speaker 1: that God does traffic children. So is there an is
[1:11:27] Speaker 1: it something else that we would claim is object objectively immoral?
[1:11:31] Speaker 2: Once again? Once again, brother, if if, if God isn't
[1:11:37] Speaker 2: a standard for what's fright and wrong, and let's take
[1:11:40] Speaker 2: that out of it. Let's just go with Jesus, because
[1:11:42] Speaker 2: there's nothing with Jesus.
[1:11:44] Speaker 1: I don't know what you're.
[1:11:47] Speaker 2: Either got it?
[1:11:48] Speaker 1: Why?
[1:11:48] Speaker 2: Why standard? I'm subjectively right, you'll you're telling me that
[1:11:54] Speaker 2: my God is traffic. Okay, I'm just trying to trying
[1:11:57] Speaker 2: to get a point across here. Right, If it's not objective,
[1:12:01] Speaker 2: it's subjective, and then anyone can say.
[1:12:05] Speaker 1: I will not let you pivot until you finished this discussion.
[1:12:09] Speaker 1: Is it objectively right or wrong to traffic children?
[1:12:14] Speaker 2: Bro for the fifth time? Of course?
[1:12:16] Speaker 5: Okay?
[1:12:16] Speaker 1: And that then then tell me then tell me how
[1:12:20] Speaker 1: it was, tell me how it was? Okay, when God
[1:12:23] Speaker 1: did it?
[1:12:24] Speaker 2: H right and once again, okay, you'd have to go
[1:12:29] Speaker 2: and you'd have to check out like a scholar, somebody that's.
[1:12:31] Speaker 3: Educated in I already am to get it.
[1:12:34] Speaker 1: I already am. I have two degrees in the skill
[1:12:35] Speaker 1: to study. That's why I know this passage exists and
[1:12:37] Speaker 1: you don't. So I'm asking you to give an explanation
[1:12:41] Speaker 1: from your brain. I already know what the scholars saying.
[1:12:48] Speaker 2: Okay, so let's just take Can you just take that
[1:12:51] Speaker 2: verse out of it for a moment and just okay?
[1:12:55] Speaker 2: All right? So if I told you I believe in God,
[1:12:57] Speaker 2: but I wouldn't specific you didn't have the book and numbers?
[1:13:04] Speaker 3: How is it?
[1:13:04] Speaker 2: Can you understand?
[1:13:05] Speaker 1: How is it objectively immoral to traffic children? But it's
[1:13:08] Speaker 1: okay when God does it.
[1:13:11] Speaker 5: Right?
[1:13:11] Speaker 2: Once again, he doesn't do it like the way you're
[1:13:13] Speaker 2: making a sound like what did he do?
[1:13:15] Speaker 1: What were what were the warriors? What were the warriors
[1:13:18] Speaker 1: doing with little virgin girls?
[1:13:21] Speaker 2: Like I said, I'd have to go back and I'd
[1:13:22] Speaker 2: have to look at the original language in the context
[1:13:24] Speaker 2: and see what was going on.
[1:13:25] Speaker 1: Do you know Hebrew?
[1:13:26] Speaker 3: Witty?
[1:13:29] Speaker 2: I know the way said to go to the trade.
[1:13:30] Speaker 1: You know Hebrew?
[1:13:32] Speaker 2: What ancient Hebrew. Okay, well, even if you do and
[1:13:36] Speaker 2: I don't, it would take me a little longer to
[1:13:38] Speaker 2: go and research the trend.
[1:13:40] Speaker 1: You know the original language, No, it would not mean
[1:13:42] Speaker 1: So let me let me tell you why going to
[1:13:44] Speaker 1: like blue letter Bible isn't the same as knowing the
[1:13:47] Speaker 1: original language, because you have to know how grammar works.
[1:13:51] Speaker 1: You can't just go and say, oh, here's a word,
[1:13:53] Speaker 1: and here it is in the dictionary. Therefore I needed
[1:13:55] Speaker 1: to mean whatever I needed to mean, not how language works.
[1:13:58] Speaker 1: You need to know how grammar works. You need to
[1:14:01] Speaker 1: know how to conjugate verbs, decline nouns. You need to
[1:14:04] Speaker 1: know how to link words together appropriately, so you know
[1:14:07] Speaker 1: that there's an antecedent here that goes to something over here.
[1:14:12] Speaker 1: Like you actually need to understand the language before you
[1:14:14] Speaker 1: tried dabbling in like retranslating what the guy with the
[1:14:19] Speaker 1: PhD did. Just just so we're clear, the guy who
[1:14:22] Speaker 1: translated the passage we read, how's a PhD. He's not
[1:14:28] Speaker 1: some schmuck?
[1:14:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean well sure, I mean yeah. They're taking
[1:14:32] Speaker 2: the original manuscripts and they're translating them. I mean I
[1:14:35] Speaker 2: get that.
[1:14:36] Speaker 1: So why do you think you're you're going to open
[1:14:38] Speaker 1: up a strong sucncordance and do it better translation than
[1:14:42] Speaker 1: the guy with the PhD that spent his life studying this.
[1:14:44] Speaker 1: Why do you think you're you're the guy for that.
[1:14:47] Speaker 2: I'm not saying I'm the guy for that, but I'm saying, like,
[1:14:49] Speaker 2: if you get into Alexicon and like the original like languages,
[1:14:53] Speaker 2: and I can look it up and see what they mean,
[1:14:56] Speaker 2: they have a very distinct and like detailed line language. Right,
[1:15:00] Speaker 2: So it's a lot different than English, for sure. I
[1:15:02] Speaker 2: agree with you. They have a lot more words for
[1:15:06] Speaker 2: for things, a lot less in Hebrew than we do,
[1:15:10] Speaker 2: a lot less words for things than English.
[1:15:15] Speaker 5: Yeah, by long job, I gotcha.
[1:15:19] Speaker 2: Well, I know that it has like specific you know
[1:15:21] Speaker 2: when it says God throughout you know our English translations
[1:15:24] Speaker 2: they have a lot of different specifics sometimes for that
[1:15:27] Speaker 2: love for example, or in the Greek's got five different.
[1:15:30] Speaker 1: They got like five different vesreak Hebrew different.
[1:15:34] Speaker 2: I understand cont Greek and ancient Hebrew are different.
[1:15:36] Speaker 1: But anyway, like I said, so you still haven't actually
[1:15:40] Speaker 1: addressed the problem. Right, the problem that we have here.
[1:15:45] Speaker 1: The problem we have here is that in the Bible
[1:15:48] Speaker 1: and then in the Bible, God does something that you
[1:15:51] Speaker 1: think is objectively immoral, unless you can go into the
[1:15:54] Speaker 1: book and explain how he didn't do it, or explain
[1:15:58] Speaker 1: how it's some I'm objectively.
[1:16:01] Speaker 2: Moral, okay, Or if I had some time and I
[1:16:06] Speaker 2: could do some research, maybe, okay, maybe it's just possible
[1:16:11] Speaker 2: that the way you're interpreting and spelling this out right now,
[1:16:15] Speaker 2: isn't this monster horrible God?
[1:16:16] Speaker 1: I didn't interpret it.
[1:16:17] Speaker 2: I read it to you, okay, And was that the
[1:16:22] Speaker 2: original ancient language?
[1:16:24] Speaker 1: It was in English. If I read it to you
[1:16:26] Speaker 1: in Hebrew, you wouldn't know it witty, okay.
[1:16:30] Speaker 2: But once again, what you said in English, you were
[1:16:32] Speaker 2: just telling me I couldn't read it in English and
[1:16:34] Speaker 2: understand it, to be clear, witty, a deep understanding.
[1:16:38] Speaker 1: The guy who translated it into English has a PhD
[1:16:42] Speaker 1: who spent his life studying Hebrew and other Semitic languages.
[1:16:47] Speaker 1: You're not going to uncover some hidden secret by going
[1:16:51] Speaker 1: to the strongest accordance. The guy with the PhD translated
[1:16:54] Speaker 1: to correctly. I know because I can read Hebrew, and
[1:16:58] Speaker 1: there's nothing in here that would lead me to believe
[1:17:00] Speaker 1: that he goofed.
[1:17:01] Speaker 2: And even at that, but there's a lot of translation.
[1:17:05] Speaker 1: Even at that, I'm not qualified to correct a guy
[1:17:09] Speaker 1: with a pH d.
[1:17:12] Speaker 2: Well, I'm not trying to correct anyone. I was literally
[1:17:15] Speaker 2: just trying to make a point that if there is
[1:17:18] Speaker 2: no God and there is no standard for it's right
[1:17:19] Speaker 2: and wrong.
[1:17:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, I would, I would pivot too, Pivot, pivot, pivot again.
[1:17:23] Speaker 1: This is not about not about my moral about my
[1:17:26] Speaker 1: moral system. This conversation we're having right now, they they
[1:17:31] Speaker 1: demonstration of what you think objective morals are.
[1:17:35] Speaker 3: Right.
[1:17:35] Speaker 1: So the reality is you don't. We don't actually believe
[1:17:38] Speaker 1: in objective morals. You believe in subjective morals. You just
[1:17:42] Speaker 1: think that morals are subject to the mind of God,
[1:17:45] Speaker 1: not to the mind of men.
[1:17:48] Speaker 2: I'm saying he's the one that determines what's right and wrong.
[1:17:50] Speaker 3: It's not.
[1:17:51] Speaker 1: That's not objective, that's subjective.
[1:17:55] Speaker 2: No, God is the reason we have objective truths.
[1:17:58] Speaker 1: What do you think The word objective means.
[1:18:00] Speaker 2: It's fact No, subjective is your your opinion? No, okay?
[1:18:08] Speaker 2: An objective objective truth is objective truth, whether you subjectively
[1:18:13] Speaker 2: think it's not okay.
[1:18:16] Speaker 1: So subjective means it's mind dependent. Objective means it's mind independent.
[1:18:22] Speaker 1: And as it turns out, your God has a mind.
[1:18:24] Speaker 1: So if your morals come from God's mind, that makes
[1:18:27] Speaker 1: it subject. It's subject to God's mind. It's subjective. So
[1:18:34] Speaker 1: you don't so you don't believe in objective morals. You
[1:18:37] Speaker 1: believe in subjective morals, and you believe that these the
[1:18:42] Speaker 1: highest tier of subjective morals is whatever my God says.
[1:18:47] Speaker 1: So then is this is disobedience to your God's commands?
[1:18:51] Speaker 1: Always bad?
[1:18:55] Speaker 5: Well?
[1:18:55] Speaker 2: Once again, I mean what's what's bad? What does that mean?
[1:18:58] Speaker 2: I mean in your view? I mean, how do you
[1:19:01] Speaker 2: look at right and wrong? And how do you listen?
[1:19:03] Speaker 1: You can use your definition of bad is disobedience to God?
[1:19:06] Speaker 5: Bad?
[1:19:09] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[1:19:10] Speaker 1: Is it always bad?
[1:19:12] Speaker 2: That's literally the definition of bad is not doing right?
[1:19:16] Speaker 1: Okay, So if God said, Witty, I need you to
[1:19:20] Speaker 1: execute some babies, it would be right to do what
[1:19:23] Speaker 1: he says?
[1:19:25] Speaker 2: Right? Once again, This is a yes or no.
[1:19:30] Speaker 1: Once again, yes or no, Witty, If God told you
[1:19:33] Speaker 1: to execute babies, would it be wrong to disobey?
[1:19:38] Speaker 2: Right? Once again? This is not a holy, righteous God
[1:19:41] Speaker 2: you're talking about. Okay, you're using like I said, you're
[1:19:44] Speaker 2: using one story in the Old Testament and you're trying
[1:19:46] Speaker 2: to use this.
[1:19:47] Speaker 1: Oh no, there's there's a dozen of them. Witty, there's
[1:19:49] Speaker 1: a dozen. There's a dozen stories just like this.
[1:19:52] Speaker 5: Witty.
[1:19:53] Speaker 1: So your God commands the killings of babies all the time,
[1:19:56] Speaker 1: And I mean, I'm not I'm not gonna let you pivot.
[1:19:58] Speaker 1: I don't know if you've been here before, but I
[1:20:01] Speaker 1: never let my guests pivot. So you're gonna So you're
[1:20:04] Speaker 1: in this discussion, and you're stuck in this discussion. You're
[1:20:08] Speaker 1: not gonna run away from it, and you're not gonna pivot.
[1:20:10] Speaker 1: So the question is, if God told you to execute
[1:20:13] Speaker 1: a baby, is it wrong to disobey?
[1:20:18] Speaker 2: Listen, bro, why are you gonna?
[1:20:20] Speaker 1: Why are you scared to answer? Why are you terrified? Answer?
[1:20:24] Speaker 1: Just answer the question. If God told you to kill
[1:20:26] Speaker 1: a baby, would it be wrong to disobey?
[1:20:30] Speaker 2: Okay, So listen, dude, you're trying to ask me, Just
[1:20:33] Speaker 2: let me, just let me speak.
[1:20:34] Speaker 1: No, the answer needs to be yes or no. If
[1:20:37] Speaker 1: God told you to execute a baby, would it be
[1:20:41] Speaker 1: wrong to disobey God?
[1:20:46] Speaker 2: Okay? So, if if a holy and good God asked
[1:20:49] Speaker 2: me to do evil and wicked things, how would.
[1:20:51] Speaker 1: I I asked you? If your God told you to
[1:20:54] Speaker 1: kill a baby, would it be wrong to disobey it?
[1:21:01] Speaker 1: I mean if yeah, because it's okay, just let me
[1:21:04] Speaker 1: explain real quick. No, if it's a yes or no, okay, okay, Well,
[1:21:08] Speaker 1: if you're not going to like you know, let me
[1:21:11] Speaker 1: go back and forth.
[1:21:12] Speaker 2: I mean, you're gonna just it's a yes or no question.
[1:21:15] Speaker 1: It's just no question. No it is, so why can't
[1:21:18] Speaker 1: you say yes or no? How come you're not capable
[1:21:20] Speaker 1: of doing it?
[1:21:22] Speaker 2: Because you're asking me, if a good and righteous God
[1:21:27] Speaker 2: who asked you to do an evil and wicked saying
[1:21:29] Speaker 2: told you to do it, would you do it? It's
[1:21:31] Speaker 2: wrong if you don't do it.
[1:21:32] Speaker 1: But it tells you to do it in First Samuel
[1:21:34] Speaker 1: fifteen three. He just told you to do it in
[1:21:36] Speaker 1: numbers thirty one. Jesus himself recommends doing it in Mark
[1:21:40] Speaker 1: chapter seven. And again, I've already told you if Jesus
[1:21:43] Speaker 1: is If Jesus is God, that means Jesus is always
[1:21:48] Speaker 1: in accordance with God the Father, which means everything he
[1:21:51] Speaker 1: did in the Old Testament is stuff that Jesus approved.
[1:21:54] Speaker 1: You're never going to run away from this argument by
[1:21:57] Speaker 1: trying to say, but Jesus. But Jesus, that doesn't solve
[1:22:00] Speaker 1: the problem. So I asked you a logical problem about
[1:22:04] Speaker 1: your moral system. I'm not asking you a theological question.
[1:22:09] Speaker 1: I'm asking you a logical question about your moral system.
[1:22:12] Speaker 1: In your moral system, would it be wrong to disobey
[1:22:16] Speaker 1: God if he told you to kill a baby?
[1:22:20] Speaker 2: Okay, Well, once again, if you're asking.
[1:22:23] Speaker 1: You're going to answer the question, or I'll ask it
[1:22:25] Speaker 1: a hundred times. This is what's gonna happen. You're going
[1:22:28] Speaker 1: to answer the question or you're going to run away
[1:22:30] Speaker 1: from this live stream. I will not let you pivot.
[1:22:33] Speaker 1: You're going to answer the question. I'm going to ask
[1:22:35] Speaker 1: you four hundred times until you do. And every time
[1:22:38] Speaker 1: you refuse to answer, you're admitting that you're a coward.
[1:22:42] Speaker 1: So yes or no? If God told you to kill
[1:22:45] Speaker 1: a baby, would it be wrong to disobey?
[1:22:47] Speaker 2: All right, bro, listen, if you're just gonna ask me
[1:22:50] Speaker 2: ridiculous questions and.
[1:22:51] Speaker 1: Not like it's not a ridiculous question.
[1:22:55] Speaker 2: Bro, you're asking me. If a good and holy God
[1:22:59] Speaker 2: ask you to do something, he does it.
[1:23:00] Speaker 1: The only reason God, it's not wrong if God tells you.
[1:23:03] Speaker 3: To do it.
[1:23:05] Speaker 2: Right, So, in the old Covenant, in the old time.
[1:23:08] Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. Objective morals don't change. First Damuel fifteen three,
[1:23:14] Speaker 1: he says, go and attack Emmelek and utterly destroy all
[1:23:17] Speaker 1: that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both
[1:23:20] Speaker 1: man and woman, child in infant ox and sheep, campbel
[1:23:23] Speaker 1: and donkey. So again, that's a pivot. That's a pivot
[1:23:28] Speaker 1: that I won't let you do. It's a pivot that
[1:23:30] Speaker 1: I won't let you do. I'm asking you about God's commands.
[1:23:35] Speaker 1: If God commanded you to kill a baby, would it
[1:23:38] Speaker 1: be wrong to disobey?
[1:23:40] Speaker 2: Yes, thank you.
[1:23:41] Speaker 1: That's all you had to say. That's all you had
[1:23:43] Speaker 1: to say is yes, it would be wrong if God
[1:23:47] Speaker 1: told me. If God told me to kill a baby
[1:23:49] Speaker 1: and I didn't do it, it would be wrong. Now listen,
[1:23:51] Speaker 1: you can give your explanation after you answer the question like.
[1:23:56] Speaker 2: I'm a monster and I don't appreciate it. Now you
[1:24:00] Speaker 2: know you're not having an open dialogue.
[1:24:03] Speaker 1: We are. You're trying to be You're trying to avoid
[1:24:06] Speaker 1: the actual question. I won't let you actually do it.
[1:24:09] Speaker 1: I'll never let you do it, not in a million years.
[1:24:12] Speaker 1: So the next question is, if God told you to
[1:24:14] Speaker 1: kill ten babies? Would it be wrong to do it?
[1:24:17] Speaker 2: Okay, all right, listen, dude. If this is like a hey,
[1:24:20] Speaker 2: I got to answer all your questions and we can.
[1:24:22] Speaker 1: You don't have to answer all my questions. You have
[1:24:25] Speaker 1: to finish this particular topic. This topic will not go
[1:24:29] Speaker 1: away until you finish the discussions. The topic right now
[1:24:34] Speaker 1: is your moral system. You don't believe in objective morals.
[1:24:37] Speaker 1: You believe in divine command theory. So now I'm so
[1:24:41] Speaker 1: now I'm testing. Now, I'm testing the logic of your
[1:24:44] Speaker 1: moral system. So in your moral system, if God told
[1:24:48] Speaker 1: you to execute ten babies, would it be wrong to disobey?
[1:24:54] Speaker 2: Okay, once again, I'm not going to keep it Wiggans.
[1:24:56] Speaker 1: You're going to answer, and that's the only thing you're
[1:24:59] Speaker 1: going to do. You can leave, you can run all
[1:25:01] Speaker 1: you want, but you're gonna You're gonna either answer the
[1:25:04] Speaker 1: question or run away.
[1:25:05] Speaker 2: Bro, you're the one sitting here trying to be a tyrant.
[1:25:07] Speaker 1: I'm not being a tyrant. You're you're running like an
[1:25:10] Speaker 1: actual coward with your tail between your legs because you
[1:25:13] Speaker 1: don't have the mental fortitude to say yes or no.
[1:25:16] Speaker 1: You don't have the mental fortitude to describe your moral system,
[1:25:20] Speaker 1: because you know that your moral system is unbelievable. I
[1:25:25] Speaker 1: don't need you to explain your answer. I need the answer.
[1:25:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't. I don't. I don't care about
[1:25:32] Speaker 2: that question. I'm not going to answer that.
[1:25:34] Speaker 1: You are going to answer it, witty, You're going to answer,
[1:25:36] Speaker 1: or you're gonna run away. You are going to answer it.
[1:25:40] Speaker 1: So what would it be wrong if God told you
[1:25:44] Speaker 1: to kill ten babies? Would it be wrong to disobey? It?
[1:25:48] Speaker 2: Says your God has imaginary proved me wrong. Bro, I
[1:25:50] Speaker 2: can't even explain anything you ask me these yes or
[1:25:52] Speaker 2: no hypothetically.
[1:25:54] Speaker 1: And this is your argument. You started on the moral argument,
[1:25:57] Speaker 1: and now you're getting what you asked for. You you
[1:26:00] Speaker 1: brought up the moral argument, and now you're getting pressed
[1:26:02] Speaker 1: on it. I know listen, I know it. I know that.
[1:26:05] Speaker 1: Like your balls are sweaty at this point and your
[1:26:07] Speaker 1: buttholes all puckered up. But all you're doing right now
[1:26:10] Speaker 1: is displaying your cowardice. What you need to do is finish.
[1:26:14] Speaker 1: Finish the argument, finish the argument that you started. You
[1:26:19] Speaker 1: need to show some respect by actually engaging in the
[1:26:22] Speaker 1: dialogue honestly and not like a coward. So it's an
[1:26:25] Speaker 1: easy You're not capable of having a sophisticated conversation until
[1:26:31] Speaker 1: you answer my questions.
[1:26:34] Speaker 2: I'm okay.
[1:26:35] Speaker 1: So we're in the middle of a discussion right now
[1:26:40] Speaker 1: about your moral system, and we're not done with it.
[1:26:44] Speaker 1: So in your moral system, if God told you to
[1:26:47] Speaker 1: execute ten babies, would it be wrong to disobey? And
[1:26:50] Speaker 1: you can cry all you want about how you don't
[1:26:52] Speaker 1: like the answer, but you're going to answer. You're going
[1:26:55] Speaker 1: to answer, or you're going to leave. I will not
[1:26:58] Speaker 1: let you pivot, and I will not let you talk
[1:27:00] Speaker 1: over me. What's the answer, yes or no? Yes or no?
[1:27:07] Speaker 1: What's the answer, yes or no?
[1:27:10] Speaker 2: I'm not going to answer.
[1:27:11] Speaker 1: If you want to move on, Nope, we're not moving past.
[1:27:13] Speaker 1: This won't happen, Never gonna happen. Okay, So ask so
[1:27:17] Speaker 1: strike strike strike number ten, So I'll ask it again.
[1:27:21] Speaker 1: In your worldview, if God told you to kill ten babies,
[1:27:25] Speaker 1: would it be wrong to disobey God? Strike number two?
[1:27:31] Speaker 1: In your worldview? If God told you to kill ten babies,
[1:27:34] Speaker 1: would it be wrong to disobey?
[1:27:37] Speaker 2: Ridiculous anybody?
[1:27:39] Speaker 1: Strike number three? In your worldview? If God told you
[1:27:43] Speaker 1: to kill ten babies. Would it be wrong to disobey?
[1:27:47] Speaker 1: Not according to you, because it's stripe number four in
[1:27:50] Speaker 1: your worldview. If God told you to kill ten babies,
[1:27:53] Speaker 1: would it be wrong to disobey. I'm not killing strict
[1:27:57] Speaker 1: number five in your worldview? If God told you to
[1:28:00] Speaker 1: kill ten babies, would it be wrong to disobey? Once again,
[1:28:06] Speaker 1: we'll get you're you're not. No, you're not. You're trying
[1:28:10] Speaker 1: to run away like a coward, and I won't let
[1:28:13] Speaker 1: you do it. It'll never happen. You can cry all
[1:28:16] Speaker 1: you want about how you don't like the question, but
[1:28:18] Speaker 1: it's you're never gonna You're never gonna pivot. It won't
[1:28:21] Speaker 1: work here. I don't know how many live streams you've
[1:28:23] Speaker 1: been on where you think that this is something that works,
[1:28:26] Speaker 1: but it ain't gonna work here. Hey, thanks for the
[1:28:28] Speaker 1: ian raid. I appreciate that. So know what you're doing
[1:28:31] Speaker 1: is you're you're literally running. You're running from the current,
[1:28:35] Speaker 1: the current topic. The current topic which you brought up wasn't. Oh,
[1:28:39] Speaker 1: there he goes and he ran. I figured that was
[1:28:41] Speaker 1: gonna happen eventually. They hate it, They hate the morals
[1:28:45] Speaker 1: of their God. They can't they can't deal with it.
[1:28:51] Speaker 1: Oh well, I love it when they bring up the
[1:28:54] Speaker 1: moral argument. It's one of my favorites.
[1:28:58] Speaker 5: And thank you for the raid.
[1:28:59] Speaker 1: I appreciate that friend. All right, Now, with that, we're
[1:29:03] Speaker 1: gonna get our our next guest into the guest box.
[1:29:08] Speaker 1: Looks like it's gonna be.
[1:29:10] Speaker 8: Alex and welcome in, Alex, Alex Ope, Alex is not
[1:29:25] Speaker 8: with us? Okay, Well that went down, and.
[1:29:33] Speaker 1: I'm trying add an eye in next after I ad
[1:29:36] Speaker 1: and ay, it looks like Bill. I think Bill's after that.
[1:29:40] Speaker 1: I don't a yea. How you doing?
[1:29:44] Speaker 5: Yep?
[1:29:44] Speaker 1: Can you hear me? I'm doing uh doing well?
[1:29:48] Speaker 5: How are you?
[1:29:50] Speaker 1: I'm having a great day.
[1:29:51] Speaker 5: How about you?
[1:29:53] Speaker 1: Cool? So adnaya? How old are you are? At least eighteen?
[1:29:57] Speaker 1: Actually I don't need your age. I just need to
[1:29:59] Speaker 1: know that you're at least eight And what God do
[1:30:01] Speaker 1: you believe in? Do you believe in Jesus? So you're
[1:30:18] Speaker 1: a Christian? Cool would be the most compelling evidence or
[1:30:26] Speaker 1: argument for the Christian God being real? M then what
[1:30:38] Speaker 1: would be the most compelling evidence or argument for the
[1:30:42] Speaker 1: Christian God being real? I think your reception sucks, men.
[1:30:50] Speaker 1: I think that's what's happened. Oh hold on, but.
[1:30:59] Speaker 7: Who's our believes in him shall have everlasting life.
[1:31:03] Speaker 5: I just took with that.
[1:31:05] Speaker 1: Sorry YouTube, I had to turn the sound on from
[1:31:10] Speaker 1: from the TikTok. I apologize. That's my bad, My bad. Friends,
[1:31:15] Speaker 1: I apologize, but don't worry. We didn't get anywhere. Actually, Louis,
[1:31:25] Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for the journal. I appreciate that. Okay,
[1:31:31] Speaker 1: So the sound is on. I apologize, friends, I had
[1:31:34] Speaker 1: the TikTok sound and turned off. This is our first
[1:31:35] Speaker 1: TikTok guest for the night. Okay. So back at the bar,
[1:31:41] Speaker 1: nobody missed anything. We didn't get anywhere yet. So you
[1:31:44] Speaker 1: believe in the Christian God, So what would be the
[1:31:48] Speaker 1: evidence or argument that the Christian God is REALM.
[1:31:59] Speaker 7: No, well, I don't. It doesn't say that he's the
[1:32:03] Speaker 7: Christian God.
[1:32:06] Speaker 1: The god you believe in being a Christian. What is
[1:32:09] Speaker 1: the evidence that that thing is real? Yes, there's evidence,
[1:32:20] Speaker 1: I'm asking him for it.
[1:32:21] Speaker 3: What is it?
[1:32:23] Speaker 7: It was science? It was scientifically uh proven?
[1:32:27] Speaker 1: Okay, give me the evidence.
[1:32:34] Speaker 7: The evidence is out there. You've already seen evidence.
[1:32:37] Speaker 1: Just saying the evidence is out there is not an argument.
[1:32:40] Speaker 5: What evidence?
[1:32:47] Speaker 7: I believe that the reason why you're able to come
[1:32:49] Speaker 7: on here and argue about it is because you've already
[1:32:51] Speaker 7: seen the evidence. You just don't believe in the evidence.
[1:32:53] Speaker 7: But the evidence, what evidence? What is the evidence? So
[1:33:02] Speaker 7: you like me and his physical appearance?
[1:33:04] Speaker 1: I'm asking you for what is the evidence? You say
[1:33:07] Speaker 1: is out there.
[1:33:12] Speaker 7: The evidence of God?
[1:33:13] Speaker 3: What?
[1:33:14] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[1:33:14] Speaker 5: What is the evidence?
[1:33:16] Speaker 7: I'll give you one, right, his the name I die.
[1:33:19] Speaker 7: That's that's that's one. That's one proof.
[1:33:21] Speaker 1: You can't be real that you can this. This's gotta
[1:33:24] Speaker 1: be a troll. No, nobody's just slow. The name of
[1:33:27] Speaker 1: God is not evidence of God's existence. Try again, it is,
[1:33:31] Speaker 1: bro it is prove it.
[1:33:35] Speaker 7: It's already been proven.
[1:33:36] Speaker 5: Like it is.
[1:33:37] Speaker 1: You you demonstrated whatever claim you whatever you think the
[1:33:42] Speaker 1: name of God proves, going demonstrated right now?
[1:33:47] Speaker 7: Okay, sure, let me ask you a question, right, no question?
[1:33:53] Speaker 1: Question is not an argument. I'm asking for the argument
[1:33:55] Speaker 1: that the name of God proves God is real?
[1:33:59] Speaker 3: Are you?
[1:33:59] Speaker 7: Are you want you want to argument now?
[1:34:02] Speaker 1: I want, yes, a valid argument that demonstrates that the
[1:34:05] Speaker 1: name of God proves the existence of God.
[1:34:11] Speaker 7: Oh well, golad to the scientists.
[1:34:14] Speaker 1: Name one.
[1:34:17] Speaker 7: There's plenty out here.
[1:34:19] Speaker 1: Okay, all right, well your troll or you're the slowest
[1:34:22] Speaker 1: person alive, so I'm kicking you and moving on to
[1:34:25] Speaker 1: an actual adult. That was unbearable. All right, let me
[1:34:28] Speaker 1: grab a couple super chests. We'll get our next guest
[1:34:29] Speaker 1: in here. Bucky, Holy shit, thank you for the one
[1:34:32] Speaker 1: hundred and forty ninety nine hours super chat. I appreciate that, friend,
[1:34:36] Speaker 1: Big big W. To our friend, Bucky says, Holy Doug,
[1:34:39] Speaker 1: I missed your clarity of thought. Welcome back, Thank you
[1:34:42] Speaker 1: so much, Bucky. I'm happy to be back, having a
[1:34:46] Speaker 1: blast already. We already got to numbers thirty one first
[1:34:50] Speaker 1: live stream back and we're digging into numbers thirty one. Adam,
[1:34:54] Speaker 1: thank you for the twenty hours, superchest says, welcome back, Deazy. Hey,
[1:34:57] Speaker 1: I appreciate that, big W. And thank you so much
[1:35:01] Speaker 1: for the forty nine to ninety nine dollars to per Chet,
[1:35:03] Speaker 1: that's huge, big W friend says, missed you much, so
[1:35:06] Speaker 1: glad you're back. Nice to get fresh cooking and pretzels already. Hey,
[1:35:11] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Then I'm listen. I'm thrilled to be back,
[1:35:14] Speaker 1: absolutely thrilled to be back right now, and sonis thank
[1:35:18] Speaker 1: you for the five hundred Argentinian dollars. Big W says,
[1:35:21] Speaker 1: where were you? I'm on pretzel withdrawal medication and Doug,
[1:35:25] Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I was on vacation for two weeks with
[1:35:28] Speaker 1: my son. We had all kinds of fun. He's now
[1:35:33] Speaker 1: he's got to go back to school, but that's where
[1:35:35] Speaker 1: I was. So I took two weeks off of cooking
[1:35:39] Speaker 1: to spend time uninterrupted with my son and we had
[1:35:43] Speaker 1: an absolute blast. Remember, the children are are future friends,
[1:35:47] Speaker 1: and you don't like you can't get that time back
[1:35:49] Speaker 1: once it's gone. So, Carlos, thank you so much for
[1:35:53] Speaker 1: the three hundred and fifty Mexican dollars. I appreciate that.
[1:35:57] Speaker 1: It's huge, he says. Hey, Justin and all friends here
[1:36:00] Speaker 1: bring from an emergency operational shit I had last thursday.
[1:36:03] Speaker 1: I'm already here's that, Carlos. I hope you're okay a
[1:36:05] Speaker 1: little bit tired of the hospital's food. I get that
[1:36:08] Speaker 1: need some really toasty, roasty cook Listen. I'm here to deliver, Carlos.
[1:36:13] Speaker 1: I will get you some toasted pretzels. I will deliver
[1:36:17] Speaker 1: for you, my friend. And I'm sorry to hear about
[1:36:19] Speaker 1: your predicament. I hope everything's okay, and do reach out
[1:36:24] Speaker 1: if you if you need help and support from the community.
[1:36:28] Speaker 1: Sony is, thank you again for Oh shit, I think
[1:36:31] Speaker 1: I just read that. I apology. I apologize. Either you
[1:36:33] Speaker 1: sent that twice or I just read it twice. No,
[1:36:38] Speaker 1: I think you sent it twice. It says where were
[1:36:40] Speaker 1: you man, I'm on principal draw medication. Well, I just
[1:36:44] Speaker 1: explained it, so I won't explain it again. But he
[1:36:47] Speaker 1: Sona is, thank you so much for being here. I
[1:36:48] Speaker 1: really appreciate that. And last one from Joe, Thank you
[1:36:52] Speaker 1: so much Joe for the twenty dollars super Chad. I
[1:36:55] Speaker 1: appreciate that says morality has always come from humans. That's
[1:36:59] Speaker 1: all there is is. It's just always been cloaked in
[1:37:02] Speaker 1: some divine authority throughout history. I agree. Actually, Like if
[1:37:06] Speaker 1: you read the Code of Hammurabi, it's clear that the
[1:37:09] Speaker 1: law code, these moral codes come from their particular set
[1:37:12] Speaker 1: of deities. If you read the Egyptian literature, they think
[1:37:16] Speaker 1: it comes from their Like everybody seems to think that
[1:37:19] Speaker 1: there must be these morals, but they must also come
[1:37:23] Speaker 1: from some sort of a divine source or else they
[1:37:25] Speaker 1: just don't have authority. The reality is we have no
[1:37:29] Speaker 1: reason to believe that there's such a thing as objective morals,
[1:37:33] Speaker 1: and that you know, anyone can point to them or
[1:37:36] Speaker 1: tell us what they are. That's why I run the argument. Listen,
[1:37:40] Speaker 1: if you believe that objective morals exist, that's great. Feel
[1:37:43] Speaker 1: me where they're at. Demonstrate to me that they are objective,
[1:37:46] Speaker 1: because I can guarantee you if you think they're in
[1:37:47] Speaker 1: the Bible, the minute I start reading them to you,
[1:37:50] Speaker 1: you're going to run away from them. I think Bill
[1:37:53] Speaker 1: was next in line. So we're gonna get Bill into
[1:37:55] Speaker 1: the discussion. How you doing Bill, I'm doing well.
[1:37:59] Speaker 5: Thank you?
[1:37:59] Speaker 1: How you doing well? Thank you for asking Bill. Are
[1:38:04] Speaker 1: you a believer in some kind of a god?
[1:38:08] Speaker 5: I don't think so.
[1:38:11] Speaker 1: Okay. Are you agnostic or atheist?
[1:38:16] Speaker 9: I think I lean more atheists now, and that's something
[1:38:19] Speaker 9: that's probably developed over the past few years, having grown
[1:38:22] Speaker 9: up quite the opposite.
[1:38:26] Speaker 1: Okay, so it sounds like you don't disagree with me, then.
[1:38:30] Speaker 9: No, And in fact, that's why I wanted to have
[1:38:33] Speaker 9: a chance to speak with you as part of my
[1:38:36] Speaker 9: investigation and finding out maybe some of the things I've
[1:38:39] Speaker 9: believed to be true for quite a long time.
[1:38:41] Speaker 5: Aren't true.
[1:38:42] Speaker 9: There's a story, and I've watched quite a bit of
[1:38:44] Speaker 9: your content, but I don't think i've ever heard you
[1:38:46] Speaker 9: talk about this, and I think it's in numbers about
[1:38:49] Speaker 9: the bitter potion you make.
[1:38:54] Speaker 5: Again, I'm not entirely sure of the.
[1:38:58] Speaker 3: Location of it in the passage, but seem really crazy.
[1:39:02] Speaker 1: And it's a wild passage. Yeah, And so essentially God
[1:39:08] Speaker 1: is suggesting here that if a woman is unfaithful because
[1:39:12] Speaker 1: the spirit of jealousy comes upon the man, that he
[1:39:15] Speaker 1: can take her to the priest and they will make
[1:39:17] Speaker 1: this poison that she has to drink, and if she
[1:39:20] Speaker 1: drinks the poison, and if poisons her, then it's presumed
[1:39:24] Speaker 1: that she is guilty. If she drinks the poison and
[1:39:28] Speaker 1: it doesn't harmers, presume that she's innocent. This is very
[1:39:31] Speaker 1: similar to the River ordeal in the ancient Near East.
[1:39:34] Speaker 1: So in Babylonian and Assyrian literature, they what they do
[1:39:39] Speaker 1: if you suspect that your wife or your spouse is
[1:39:42] Speaker 1: cheating on you, and in fact you could do it
[1:39:43] Speaker 1: to your husband. It's not just for the women, and
[1:39:45] Speaker 1: the Bible is one for the women. They basically throw
[1:39:48] Speaker 1: you into the river, which they believe based on whether
[1:39:53] Speaker 1: or not you survive the river or how you survive
[1:39:55] Speaker 1: the river will determine your guilt because there's like a
[1:39:58] Speaker 1: river demon or river deity that's in the river that
[1:40:02] Speaker 1: will deal with you as see fit. Right, And so
[1:40:06] Speaker 1: this is kind of like that where it's like we're
[1:40:08] Speaker 1: gonna throw them to the sharks. If they survive, it
[1:40:11] Speaker 1: must mean they were innocent, because obviously God wouldn't punish
[1:40:14] Speaker 1: you or do something harmful to you if you were innocent, right,
[1:40:18] Speaker 1: And so that's essentially what's happening here. And it's barbaric
[1:40:21] Speaker 1: because basically the woman's just being poisoned and the man
[1:40:24] Speaker 1: doesn't have any evidence to bring against her. He's just saying, listen,
[1:40:28] Speaker 1: the spirit of jealousy came over me. Now I'm gonna
[1:40:30] Speaker 1: poison her. It's crazy. Oh, we lost your audio there
[1:40:41] Speaker 1: for a second. What happened?
[1:40:47] Speaker 5: Bill?
[1:40:47] Speaker 1: I don't know what happened, but your audio stopped working.
[1:40:49] Speaker 1: I think your connection is starting to give I see you.
[1:40:58] Speaker 1: Your microphone shows that it's off, right now, is it now?
[1:41:05] Speaker 1: I think it's a little bit better now. I think
[1:41:06] Speaker 1: I think it's just your connection is really slow.
[1:41:12] Speaker 9: Oh very well, could be okay, I appreciate you going
[1:41:16] Speaker 9: over that that uh was I just thought that sounded crazy,
[1:41:20] Speaker 9: and uh it is in.
[1:41:22] Speaker 1: Fact in there it is, it's real. Okay, all right,
[1:41:27] Speaker 1: thanks Bill, great to hear with your friend. Here's buddy,
[1:41:32] Speaker 1: yeah w W. Billford sounds like he deconstructed on his own.
[1:41:37] Speaker 1: It looks like he went through the process trying to
[1:41:41] Speaker 1: figure things out and he you know, he ended up
[1:41:43] Speaker 1: on on our side of things, you know. Jmr, my friend,
[1:41:47] Speaker 1: thank you for the twenty ours super chat. It says,
[1:41:50] Speaker 1: easy sacrifice for us father son time is priceless. Just
[1:41:55] Speaker 1: don't do it again. I'm sorry, Jmr.
[1:41:58] Speaker 3: It is.
[1:41:58] Speaker 1: It's priceless. Listen, they're only young once. You have to
[1:42:02] Speaker 1: enjoy it while you can. Also, Ben, thank you for
[1:42:04] Speaker 1: the twenty dollars on Venmo big w Ben Ben says,
[1:42:09] Speaker 1: call him pot licker, referring to the guy that couldn't
[1:42:12] Speaker 1: answer his moral questions. And also from Virgil. Virgil, thank
[1:42:16] Speaker 1: you so much for the ten dollars super chat. If
[1:42:19] Speaker 1: I get this pop up down, Virgil, I'm sorry Venmo
[1:42:24] Speaker 1: ten dollars. Venmo. Virgil says, welcome back, friend, Glad you
[1:42:27] Speaker 1: got a thorough vacation in though much to my weekday chagrin.
[1:42:32] Speaker 1: I apologize for that. Thanks for all you do and
[1:42:36] Speaker 1: the wealth of knowledge you free to provide. Well, thank you, Virgil.
[1:42:39] Speaker 1: I appreciate the kind words. And we are back in
[1:42:43] Speaker 1: the saddle like we're ready to rock and roll. Friends, right,
[1:42:46] Speaker 1: let me grab our next guest. I think it's going
[1:42:49] Speaker 1: to be slim. Welcome in, slim, cool and a slim
[1:43:03] Speaker 1: What type of a God do you believe in? All right?
[1:43:28] Speaker 1: And we'll move on to an adult here? Try the
[1:43:31] Speaker 1: next one. Oh sorry about that, guys.
[1:43:40] Speaker 3: Oh sorry about that, guys.
[1:43:46] Speaker 1: I had to TikTok audio turn off. This is gonna
[1:43:48] Speaker 1: really fucked me up. I changed my audience out a
[1:43:55] Speaker 1: little bit between now and the last three, which is
[1:43:57] Speaker 1: why I have to keep going back and forth between
[1:43:59] Speaker 1: the audio. But trust me, you guys didn't miss anything.
[1:44:03] Speaker 1: Is it Lean or leanne?
[1:44:06] Speaker 7: Uh?
[1:44:06] Speaker 5: Lean? My things make Lane just refers.
[1:44:09] Speaker 1: To Lian okay? Lean is fine? Lean? Are you a believer?
[1:44:15] Speaker 5: And are you over eighteen? Yes, sir okay?
[1:44:20] Speaker 2: And what God do you believe in?
[1:44:21] Speaker 1: Them?
[1:44:23] Speaker 3: Uh? God? In the Bible?
[1:44:25] Speaker 1: Okay, would be the most compelling evidence or argument for
[1:44:28] Speaker 1: the Bible God being real.
[1:44:34] Speaker 5: I would say, I would say, Love.
[1:44:41] Speaker 2: Are you driving?
[1:44:43] Speaker 1: No, why does it sound like you're driving? And something
[1:44:46] Speaker 1: he went over bump? Oh no, you know liars go
[1:44:50] Speaker 1: to Lake of Fire Revelation twenty one.
[1:44:51] Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, that's true.
[1:44:59] Speaker 1: So what about love proves God?
[1:45:03] Speaker 10: Well, the Bible says that God is love, So if
[1:45:06] Speaker 10: I was to believe in the God of the Bible,
[1:45:08] Speaker 10: then that would be my proof that the love.
[1:45:12] Speaker 1: Well, first of all, I don't think that's true. Second
[1:45:15] Speaker 1: of all, I don't even think the Bible is true.
[1:45:17] Speaker 1: But I don't think that God can be love because
[1:45:21] Speaker 1: in First Crinsiance thirteen, it says all kinds of things
[1:45:24] Speaker 1: about love that simply cannot be true of the Bible God.
[1:45:29] Speaker 1: For example, it says that love is not boastful or arrogant.
[1:45:34] Speaker 1: Yet God boasts literally all the time. He spends like
[1:45:37] Speaker 1: half the Old Testament just boasting about how strong and
[1:45:39] Speaker 1: mighty he is. In fact, he kills a bunch of
[1:45:41] Speaker 1: Egyptians just to demonstrate his might, So that certainly doesn't
[1:45:45] Speaker 1: seem to fit. And says that love doesn't insist on
[1:45:50] Speaker 1: its own way. Yet God will literally murder you or
[1:45:53] Speaker 1: send you to eternal health fire if you don't follow
[1:45:56] Speaker 1: his way to an absolute tea. So Ever love you're
[1:46:00] Speaker 1: referring to, it certainly can't be the love that first
[1:46:03] Speaker 1: Prinstian thirteen's referring to.
[1:46:08] Speaker 10: Oh yeah, I'm referring to the sacrificial of But certainly
[1:46:13] Speaker 10: is in God laying down, laying down one's life for
[1:46:15] Speaker 10: a friend.
[1:46:17] Speaker 1: He didn't do that.
[1:46:20] Speaker 5: Well then, and then that's also the God in the.
[1:46:23] Speaker 2: Bible that I believe in.
[1:46:27] Speaker 5: Okay, well, I mean that's that's where we Not even
[1:46:31] Speaker 5: in the.
[1:46:31] Speaker 1: Bible, not even in the Bible did God lay down
[1:46:34] Speaker 1: his life. God is very much alive and has always
[1:46:37] Speaker 1: been alive God for no amount of time, has God
[1:46:41] Speaker 1: ever died.
[1:46:43] Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, the Son of God died.
[1:46:46] Speaker 1: No, he didn't.
[1:46:50] Speaker 5: And that's where we would we would believe too differently,
[1:46:53] Speaker 5: you were just asking in the Bible.
[1:46:55] Speaker 1: In the Bible, Jesus' flesh died. He did not die,
[1:47:02] Speaker 1: and he knew at all the time that he wasn't
[1:47:04] Speaker 1: going to be dead either. That's the other thing. To
[1:47:06] Speaker 1: lay down your life means that you're no longer alive.
[1:47:09] Speaker 1: Jesus took like a two and a half day break
[1:47:14] Speaker 1: with his body, and then this came back. It said
[1:47:15] Speaker 1: he didn't die.
[1:47:17] Speaker 5: Well, that's that's how the Bible seems fit of what
[1:47:20] Speaker 5: death is. Death is sleep and.
[1:47:23] Speaker 1: Right, no he rose again, Well then he's not dead. Yeah,
[1:47:28] Speaker 1: but yeah he did die for us.
[1:47:30] Speaker 10: No, his physical body just like when we die, we're
[1:47:34] Speaker 10: we're asleep until the resurrection. His physical body did die,
[1:47:38] Speaker 10: but then he was resurrected, just like when we were
[1:47:41] Speaker 10: to be resurrected. But like our physical body, the death
[1:47:45] Speaker 10: that we will go through and we die.
[1:47:47] Speaker 1: But the meaning that, if you're an eternal being, giving
[1:47:51] Speaker 1: up your body for two to three days is nothing.
[1:47:54] Speaker 1: That's meaningless, that's not a sacrifice.
[1:47:57] Speaker 5: I mean, I wouldn't want to go through what the
[1:48:01] Speaker 5: Bible describes of what he went.
[1:48:02] Speaker 1: Through if I was an eternal being. If I was
[1:48:05] Speaker 1: God and I knew i'd come back for three days,
[1:48:07] Speaker 1: I'd do it once a month. I don't know. I
[1:48:08] Speaker 1: don't give a shit.
[1:48:11] Speaker 5: I don't know. That'd be hard. Why, I mean, you're
[1:48:15] Speaker 5: you're mean God. Yeah, it's still but still if he's.
[1:48:22] Speaker 10: A human, just like we are human in that in
[1:48:24] Speaker 10: that moment, it's still hard. We all fear death, and that's.
[1:48:29] Speaker 1: Why God, God, God doesn't fear dup.
[1:48:32] Speaker 10: Well, he's he was so anxious in the Garden of
[1:48:36] Speaker 10: Yosemite that he was like sweating. I mean to to
[1:48:40] Speaker 10: be that grieved and to say, hey, I want this
[1:48:44] Speaker 10: cup to pass for me, but You're will be done
[1:48:47] Speaker 10: not mine. I mean that that shows anguish and fear
[1:48:50] Speaker 10: of what is to come. And then the angels came
[1:48:53] Speaker 10: and and actually ministered to him and gave him strength
[1:48:56] Speaker 10: like that.
[1:48:57] Speaker 3: He was weak in those.
[1:48:59] Speaker 1: What you do now is demonstrating that the Trinity is illogical.
[1:49:03] Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, I'm not.
[1:49:04] Speaker 2: I'm not.
[1:49:06] Speaker 1: Oh so you're not a trauitarian. Oh shit, well big okay,
[1:49:09] Speaker 1: big w We agree on something. Okay, the Trinity is
[1:49:12] Speaker 1: the most illogical nonsense ever.
[1:49:14] Speaker 5: Okay.
[1:49:15] Speaker 1: The problem you have then is you're a polytheist.
[1:49:18] Speaker 10: Now, h I wouldn't say polytheist. I would more say, okay,
[1:49:26] Speaker 10: God is a spirit.
[1:49:28] Speaker 1: I mean and isthing wrong with being a polytheist, but
[1:49:31] Speaker 1: that's what you are. Like if Jesus is.
[1:49:33] Speaker 5: God, monotheist monotheism, Oh.
[1:49:37] Speaker 1: You're definitely not a monotheist. Like, if you believe Jesus
[1:49:40] Speaker 1: is God, you can't be a monotheist unless you're a trinitarian.
[1:49:44] Speaker 10: Well, Jesus in the flesh that he This is where
[1:49:49] Speaker 10: it gets all confused. Jesus is God in the flesh
[1:49:53] Speaker 10: like God manifested the spirit of God.
[1:49:55] Speaker 5: Manifested himself in his son.
[1:49:58] Speaker 3: So he was a man.
[1:49:59] Speaker 10: He was undercent man like us, but God fully his
[1:50:03] Speaker 10: full God had deity dwelled within him.
[1:50:09] Speaker 3: No, God robbed himself in flesh, just like just like
[1:50:12] Speaker 3: we have a spirit.
[1:50:14] Speaker 5: Is Jesus.
[1:50:15] Speaker 1: Is Jesus part of God? Or is he one hundred
[1:50:17] Speaker 1: percent God? He's of God, but he's part of God.
[1:50:23] Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say he's part of God. He's the
[1:50:25] Speaker 5: son so God just like your hearts.
[1:50:30] Speaker 3: Yeah, just like in.
[1:50:31] Speaker 5: Bible talks about his hand reaching down like symbolisms and.
[1:50:35] Speaker 2: His words the word you.
[1:50:38] Speaker 1: Are you aware of the the heresy of partialism in Christianity?
[1:50:44] Speaker 10: Well, most Trinitarianism, which is uh the bulk of Christianity
[1:50:49] Speaker 10: would say that being a oneness in Christianity is a heresy.
[1:50:53] Speaker 1: So yes, but that Gostel are you are you u?
[1:50:56] Speaker 10: PC would not say UPC no, but I would say yes,
[1:51:01] Speaker 10: I have, but you're one this yes, yeah, you believe
[1:51:04] Speaker 10: in modalism, then it'd be more Yeah, that's what the
[1:51:08] Speaker 10: Trinitarians say yeah, they would say modalism.
[1:51:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so modalism has got his own problems, right.
[1:51:13] Speaker 1: So for example, who is Jesus praying to.
[1:51:15] Speaker 5: When he was on the earth, Well, the man Christ,
[1:51:20] Speaker 5: Jesus was praying to his father.
[1:51:22] Speaker 1: No, that's not what modalism teaches. Modalism is that God
[1:51:26] Speaker 1: takes on various forms at different times. So at one
[1:51:29] Speaker 1: point he is like the God of the sky up
[1:51:31] Speaker 1: in heaven, and another point he's Jesus on the earth. Right,
[1:51:36] Speaker 1: that's what modalism, changes forms at different times, right, which
[1:51:40] Speaker 1: means if modalism is true, then when Jesus was on
[1:51:44] Speaker 1: the earth, there was no God up in heaven. Jesus
[1:51:47] Speaker 1: was just praying to the air.
[1:51:50] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:51:51] Speaker 10: And that's where I think I feel like some UPCC
[1:51:55] Speaker 10: would probably agree with that and.
[1:51:57] Speaker 5: Say that that's how they see it because they see
[1:52:01] Speaker 5: Jesus as God, like the man is God.
[1:52:05] Speaker 2: But Jesus was man. Was he schizophrenic, No, he was
[1:52:10] Speaker 2: a schizophren He was a man.
[1:52:12] Speaker 3: He was born of a.
[1:52:13] Speaker 1: Woman in the garden that GA send me. Though when
[1:52:15] Speaker 1: it says not your will be done, or not my will,
[1:52:17] Speaker 1: but your will be done, who will is he talking about?
[1:52:21] Speaker 1: That would be His will is only one will.
[1:52:24] Speaker 5: Yeah, no, no, that's that's the thing. He was one
[1:52:28] Speaker 5: hundred percent man. He had a body, spirit, and soul.
[1:52:31] Speaker 5: He was born of a woman, just like we are.
[1:52:35] Speaker 1: Who is he talking to his father? But in modalism,
[1:52:41] Speaker 1: there's no father in heaven when Jesus is on earth, modalism.
[1:52:44] Speaker 5: Is Yeah, that then that I'm not modalism.
[1:52:52] Speaker 1: Okay, so you're not trinitarian and you're not modalism, So
[1:52:55] Speaker 1: what are you.
[1:52:57] Speaker 10: I'm the one that believes that God the Father, or
[1:53:01] Speaker 10: God the Spirit, the one spirit of God, because God
[1:53:04] Speaker 10: is spirit. According to the Bible, God is spirit, that
[1:53:07] Speaker 10: one spirit birth conceived through the woman, the son of God,
[1:53:15] Speaker 10: just like we have a son or whatever through woman.
[1:53:19] Speaker 10: His father was the one spirit of God, and he
[1:53:23] Speaker 10: was raised, grew up, and then his father, the one
[1:53:26] Speaker 10: Spirit of God, came and manifested himself in his flesh.
[1:53:30] Speaker 1: So God knocked up Mary to give birth to himself.
[1:53:35] Speaker 10: I mean, that's a weird way of saying it. But yeah,
[1:53:38] Speaker 10: so God knocked up his ess other not necessarily knocked up.
[1:53:41] Speaker 10: I mean, there wasn't any like sexual pleasure I would
[1:53:43] Speaker 10: say in that but.
[1:53:47] Speaker 1: But in that case, yeah, basically, so God impregnated Mary
[1:53:51] Speaker 1: with himself.
[1:53:54] Speaker 5: And however the process works.
[1:53:57] Speaker 10: I don't know exactly how the process worked, but it
[1:53:59] Speaker 10: said that the spirit hovered over her and what was
[1:54:02] Speaker 10: conceived was a holy thing.
[1:54:05] Speaker 2: And you shall call him the Son of God just
[1:54:09] Speaker 2: because so God.
[1:54:10] Speaker 1: Is three parts, right, God the Father, right, God the Father,
[1:54:18] Speaker 1: God the Son, and God the Spirit. Three parts right,
[1:54:22] Speaker 1: I mean, according to Trinitarian he is well, No, Trinitarians
[1:54:27] Speaker 1: don't believe in partialism. In Trinitarian doctrine, Jesus is one
[1:54:32] Speaker 1: hundred percent God. In partialism, Jesus is a part of God.
[1:54:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, just like just like my son has a part
[1:54:43] Speaker 2: of me.
[1:54:44] Speaker 1: Okay, So you're a partialist, I said, there's so many
[1:54:50] Speaker 1: out there.
[1:54:51] Speaker 10: I guess I mean partialists. But the way I see
[1:54:54] Speaker 10: it is that God, Jesus is of God.
[1:54:59] Speaker 2: He's the so of God. That means that he is
[1:55:01] Speaker 2: of God.
[1:55:02] Speaker 1: But he's a part of God. Right, He's the he's
[1:55:04] Speaker 1: the body.
[1:55:05] Speaker 5: You know.
[1:55:05] Speaker 1: Paul says that Jesus is the visible image of the
[1:55:08] Speaker 1: invisible God. Right, So that means he's the part of
[1:55:11] Speaker 1: God that is visible. He's the body of God.
[1:55:15] Speaker 10: Yes, yeah, he portrays everything as a son what the
[1:55:19] Speaker 10: father resembles. So just like I would want my son
[1:55:23] Speaker 10: to resemble and to reflect who I am. If I
[1:55:27] Speaker 10: if I was to teach and raise my child and
[1:55:31] Speaker 10: give all of me to my child, I would hope
[1:55:34] Speaker 10: that he would reflect everything that I am about. And
[1:55:37] Speaker 10: I think that's that's how I see that scripture, is
[1:55:40] Speaker 10: that he is the visible image as a son is
[1:55:43] Speaker 10: the visible image of what the father's heart is all about.
[1:55:47] Speaker 1: Okay, so you're a partialist then, right, I.
[1:55:51] Speaker 5: Guess yeah, that sounds about that.
[1:55:53] Speaker 10: I would have to study up on it all way
[1:55:55] Speaker 10: they believe, because I don't want to be put into
[1:55:57] Speaker 10: some box or anything.
[1:55:59] Speaker 1: But then you don't believe that Jesus is one hundred
[1:56:03] Speaker 1: percent God. You believe that Jesus is part of God.
[1:56:07] Speaker 10: Yeah, Jesus is in John main. The main thing about
[1:56:12] Speaker 10: what was why John was written at the very end.
[1:56:16] Speaker 10: I think it's in chapter twenty eight says all these
[1:56:19] Speaker 10: things are written so that you may.
[1:56:21] Speaker 1: Believe twenty oh twenty one.
[1:56:24] Speaker 10: Okay, Sorry, I'm the one that go ahead. Sorry, Yeah,
[1:56:29] Speaker 10: I'm one that can knows what's in there, but I don't.
[1:56:33] Speaker 10: I can't say, hey, it's here and here but I
[1:56:36] Speaker 10: know it's at the end of John and he says, Hey,
[1:56:38] Speaker 10: all these things are written unto you so that you
[1:56:40] Speaker 10: may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the son of
[1:56:44] Speaker 10: the Living God, know that John?
[1:56:47] Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, So that that's that's the that's the whole name.
[1:56:51] Speaker 10: That's why I don't like how Christianity, the oneness and
[1:56:55] Speaker 10: trinitarianism and modalism, they they argue things that they don't
[1:57:00] Speaker 10: even need to be an argument, because all you need
[1:57:02] Speaker 10: to see is.
[1:57:03] Speaker 1: That I think we haven't finished the discussion about partialism yet,
[1:57:07] Speaker 1: we're still trying to hammer down. So if Jesus is
[1:57:10] Speaker 1: a part of God, being the body of God, right,
[1:57:15] Speaker 1: then where was Jesus before he was born?
[1:57:20] Speaker 2: Where was Jesus before he was born?
[1:57:22] Speaker 1: Yeah, if Jesus, If Jesus, if Jesus is the visible
[1:57:28] Speaker 1: part of God, then what was he before he was born?
[1:57:32] Speaker 1: Before he was visible?
[1:57:34] Speaker 10: Well, he was he was begotten, so he had the
[1:57:37] Speaker 10: man Christ. Jesus had a beginning begotten. Yeah, he was
[1:57:41] Speaker 10: begotten like the only begotten son of God.
[1:57:44] Speaker 2: So he was begotten by the Father.
[1:57:46] Speaker 1: So he hadn't know if you and I okay, so
[1:57:51] Speaker 1: makes I want to make sure I understand you correctly,
[1:57:54] Speaker 1: because I don't think that what you're saying is crazy,
[1:57:57] Speaker 1: but I want to make sure i'm with you. You're
[1:57:59] Speaker 1: saying that Jesus is not co eternal with the Father.
[1:58:05] Speaker 10: No, Jesus as a man, the man Christ, Jesus was
[1:58:08] Speaker 10: not a co eternal. He had a beginning. He had
[1:58:11] Speaker 10: a beginning, just like we we are birthed and we
[1:58:14] Speaker 10: have a beginning. He had a beginning. But the spirit
[1:58:17] Speaker 10: of God that dwelled within him, that came and dwelled
[1:58:21] Speaker 10: within him, was the the the the eternal God, the
[1:58:27] Speaker 10: one eternal God. So Jesus wasn't with God in the beginning.
[1:58:35] Speaker 5: No, the Word of God was with him.
[1:58:37] Speaker 10: So like the Uh, That's where you get into a
[1:58:40] Speaker 10: lot of theological debate of how, especially Jews, how they
[1:58:45] Speaker 10: saw the Word. They almost seen it as like a
[1:58:48] Speaker 10: an extension of God or or the same as God,
[1:58:53] Speaker 10: and that gets into a lot of you know, Hey,
[1:58:56] Speaker 10: I gotta I'm actually late for work. Uh, I'm supposed
[1:58:59] Speaker 10: to be here, it said, any of the seven o'clock
[1:59:01] Speaker 10: right now.
[1:59:02] Speaker 2: I would love to join back. I see that you
[1:59:04] Speaker 2: come in in the emails and our.
[1:59:07] Speaker 1: Our request back or whatever.
[1:59:08] Speaker 5: We can continue to talk.
[1:59:09] Speaker 1: But okay, well, coming back anytime you want, okay, okay.
[1:59:14] Speaker 2: I enjoyed the talk. Man, Thank good.
[1:59:16] Speaker 1: Here cheers lean.
[1:59:17] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[1:59:20] Speaker 1: Oh he's nice enough. We got some good trinitarian discussion in.
[1:59:28] Speaker 1: I was hoping we'd get to discuss a trinity a
[1:59:29] Speaker 1: little bit tonight. All right, let me grab a couple
[1:59:31] Speaker 1: of super chests. Friends, we'll get our next guests in here. Yoda,
[1:59:34] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the nineteen ninety nine. Our
[1:59:36] Speaker 1: superchest is outside of time and space. This dude worships
[1:59:40] Speaker 1: Ray Boom alloal wait until he finds out just doctor Doom. Oh,
[1:59:46] Speaker 1: wait till he finds out that's just doctor Doom trying
[1:59:49] Speaker 1: to find and kill the beyonders. It's a Marvel reference, justin.
[1:59:53] Speaker 1: I know you don't get it. Welcome back. Thank you
[1:59:55] Speaker 1: Rockard for diction. Well, thank you, Yoda, and you're right,
[1:59:57] Speaker 1: I have I don't get any of these Marvel references.
[2:00:00] Speaker 1: They're completely gone. I haven't watched any of the movies.
[2:00:03] Speaker 1: I don't know the names, I don't know the plots.
[2:00:05] Speaker 1: I apologize, but thank you for the twenty hours super chat. Yoda.
[2:00:09] Speaker 1: It's great to hear from you. I really appreciate you
[2:00:12] Speaker 1: supporting the stream and also Lord for thank you for
[2:00:15] Speaker 1: the ten hour supertests. Thanks for all the work you
[2:00:17] Speaker 1: do the place. The place I'm in is very Christian
[2:00:22] Speaker 1: and it's quite difficult to get a word in, so
[2:00:23] Speaker 1: I appreciate the way you debate using the Bible itself. Well,
[2:00:26] Speaker 1: thank you, Lord. I appreciate that, and I think that's
[2:00:29] Speaker 1: the key. That's why I'm the deconstruction zone because I
[2:00:33] Speaker 1: like to stick to the book right, because people come
[2:00:36] Speaker 1: up with crazy arguments for their religion, but the reality is,
[2:00:40] Speaker 1: if you just read the book, it disapproves most of
[2:00:42] Speaker 1: their stuff. Out of hand aho the leftists, is it
[2:00:46] Speaker 1: feels good to be back? I listen. I agree, Ahud,
[2:00:49] Speaker 1: it feels great to be back. I'm thrilled to be here.
[2:00:53] Speaker 1: I won't be debating till midnight tonight, though, we're only
[2:00:55] Speaker 1: going till ten o'clock because at ten o'clock we're going
[2:00:58] Speaker 1: to send a raid over to Sarah's and Sarah's doing
[2:01:01] Speaker 1: Sassy Sarah Saturday, and we're going to be debating on
[2:01:03] Speaker 1: Sarah's TikTok. After this, Libra, thank you for the ten
[2:01:07] Speaker 1: hour supertest. Shale Doug I'm allowed to wear my ear
[2:01:10] Speaker 1: butt at work and listen along. Well, big w for that.
[2:01:13] Speaker 1: I love the barbecues. I've never heard of Christian defend
[2:01:16] Speaker 1: God's morals without showing they have none, nor that could
[2:01:20] Speaker 1: present any evidence. Listen, that's the situation I'm in Libra.
[2:01:25] Speaker 1: They're not going to bring evidence, and they have no
[2:01:27] Speaker 1: way of defending the atrocities of the Bible. That's why
[2:01:29] Speaker 1: they run away from it and look at the bee's knees.
[2:01:32] Speaker 1: Thank you for the ten hour super Chest, says Doug.
[2:01:35] Speaker 1: Damn it. It's good to have you back. Listen. I'm
[2:01:37] Speaker 1: thrilled to be back. Listening to Witty crash Out is
[2:01:40] Speaker 1: a fun way to spend Saturday evening. Listen, I had
[2:01:43] Speaker 1: a good time. I hope you guys had a good
[2:01:45] Speaker 1: time and our friend double Donkey's back. Thank you for
[2:01:47] Speaker 1: the ten hour super Chest, says saw you on the line.
[2:01:50] Speaker 1: Carl Sagan was influential for me too, coming out of
[2:01:52] Speaker 1: Christian primary school into public high school. He got me
[2:01:55] Speaker 1: interested in science and into deconstructing rip. Carl, he is
[2:01:59] Speaker 1: kind of a goat. Actually, I agree with you there,
[2:02:02] Speaker 1: and he did really kick me off in a lot
[2:02:04] Speaker 1: of my agnostic phase deconstruction, so big w good to
[2:02:09] Speaker 1: hear and from Charles, thank you so much for the twin.
[2:02:12] Speaker 1: Our super chat friend says, are the popes able to
[2:02:14] Speaker 1: do the same works or greater than Jesus?
[2:02:17] Speaker 4: No?
[2:02:19] Speaker 1: No, but according to Mark sixteen they should right. According
[2:02:23] Speaker 1: to other passages, Jesus says they should, but they don't.
[2:02:27] Speaker 1: Robin says, happy Saturday. Well, happy Saturday you, Robin and
[2:02:30] Speaker 1: our friend at list. Great to see you think ever
[2:02:32] Speaker 1: since our supertest says, I'm so glad you had some
[2:02:35] Speaker 1: great time with your son. I love that you express
[2:02:37] Speaker 1: the importance of spending time with the little ones as
[2:02:39] Speaker 1: they grow. Uh with that, I'm also very happy to
[2:02:44] Speaker 1: have you back here. Well, thank you, Alice. And it
[2:02:46] Speaker 1: really is important friends, like listen, you only get one chance.
[2:02:51] Speaker 1: You only get one chance to spend a lifetime with
[2:02:53] Speaker 1: your children, and every moment that you don't spend with
[2:02:57] Speaker 1: the is a moment lost. And no one like everyone
[2:03:00] Speaker 1: goes to their deathbed saying oh I spent too much
[2:03:02] Speaker 1: time with my children. Doesn't happen.
[2:03:04] Speaker 5: Not a thing.
[2:03:05] Speaker 1: People say the opposite. I wish I spent more time
[2:03:08] Speaker 1: with my family, but they don't say that they don't
[2:03:10] Speaker 1: say that they wish they hadn't. Nightman com It says,
[2:03:12] Speaker 1: even though I'm a even though I'm now a dirty
[2:03:16] Speaker 1: rotten atheist, I still love Jesus Christ Superstar, The Prince
[2:03:19] Speaker 1: of Egypt, and the Charlton Heston Ten Commandments movie. Listen,
[2:03:23] Speaker 1: I haven't seen Jesus Christ Superstar. I've seen The Prince
[2:03:27] Speaker 1: of Egypt. And you know what, I love The Ten Commandments.
[2:03:29] Speaker 1: I love it. I love The Ten Commandments such a
[2:03:31] Speaker 1: great movie. It's just good. It's all there's to it.
[2:03:34] Speaker 1: I agree with you. There last one from our friend
[2:03:37] Speaker 1: fully fillell oo Leiley, I'm sorry I said I know
[2:03:42] Speaker 1: I said that one wrong. Thank you for the supertest.
[2:03:44] Speaker 1: It's finally catching you live made Doug blesh your cooking
[2:03:46] Speaker 1: tools and keep your grill hot. Well, thank you. I
[2:03:49] Speaker 1: really appreciate that. I'm're gonna do what we can. We're
[2:03:52] Speaker 1: gonna do it we can, all right, We'll get our
[2:03:54] Speaker 1: next guest in the que We're gonna get Becky then
[2:04:00] Speaker 1: from our YouTube Q welcome in, Becky, bek You can
[2:04:05] Speaker 1: you mean Becky? Becky?
[2:04:16] Speaker 2: Are you with us?
[2:04:22] Speaker 1: Becky? I don't know if Becky's connected anymore. Okay, well,
[2:04:26] Speaker 1: sorry about that. We'll get doctor Jonathan next in the
[2:04:30] Speaker 1: queue and we'll try the next one. How you doing,
[2:04:33] Speaker 1: doctor Johnathan?
[2:04:35] Speaker 5: Doing well? How about yourself doing well?
[2:04:37] Speaker 1: Thank you for asking, doctor Jonathan. Are you at least eighteen?
[2:04:40] Speaker 1: And are you a believer in some kind of a god?
[2:04:44] Speaker 5: Yes, sir, cool?
[2:04:45] Speaker 1: And which kind of a God do you believe in? So?
[2:04:49] Speaker 5: I hold that Yahweh is the true hell of the universe.
[2:04:52] Speaker 1: Okay. Are you a Jew or a Christian?
[2:04:57] Speaker 5: Neither? Okay, I'm not affiliated the religious organization, just.
[2:05:01] Speaker 1: A believer in the Abrahamic God.
[2:05:06] Speaker 5: Yes, I hold and know that Yahweh is true.
[2:05:10] Speaker 1: Do you think that Jesus is a part of the godhead?
[2:05:16] Speaker 5: Yashua is Yahweh in shape and form.
[2:05:21] Speaker 1: So you think Yeshua is the visible image of the
[2:05:24] Speaker 1: invisible Yahweh.
[2:05:27] Speaker 5: So Yahweh being spirit, Spirit being the source ups and
[2:05:30] Speaker 5: some of the bounds of everything, Spirit being invisible Yahweh
[2:05:34] Speaker 5: taking on shape and form. That form is known as
[2:05:37] Speaker 5: Elohim and called h or the salvation of Yahweh, because
[2:05:41] Speaker 5: it gives man an understanding of yahwa.
[2:05:44] Speaker 1: Would be yes, you will, But that's neither here nor there.
[2:05:47] Speaker 1: So the God, the Father is a spirit.
[2:05:54] Speaker 5: Is spirit not a spirit?
[2:05:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, the Holy Spirit is spirit.
[2:06:00] Speaker 5: The Holy Spirit is a term or the Holy Ghost.
[2:06:03] Speaker 5: The term reference to Yahweh, who is spirit in shape
[2:06:07] Speaker 5: and form, and that shape and form which is seen
[2:06:09] Speaker 5: by divine vision of revelation.
[2:06:11] Speaker 3: Right.
[2:06:12] Speaker 1: But when it says the Spirit of God, is the
[2:06:16] Speaker 1: spirit identical with the Father or does it have distinction
[2:06:20] Speaker 1: from the Father.
[2:06:23] Speaker 5: Now, the spirit is another term, as we say, the ghost,
[2:06:28] Speaker 5: the spirit, the form, it's a it's just referring to
[2:06:32] Speaker 5: a metaphysical form. The Spirit of Yahweh is Elohim.
[2:06:37] Speaker 1: Okay. So there's no difference between Yahweh and the Spirit
[2:06:42] Speaker 1: of God.
[2:06:44] Speaker 5: There's no difference between Yahweh and Yahweh in shape and form.
[2:06:47] Speaker 5: That's why I said it pleased the Father that in
[2:06:49] Speaker 5: that form would dwell the fullness of the Father, or
[2:06:52] Speaker 5: that that is the Father himself in shape and form.
[2:06:55] Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah, but Baba says God is spirit, Okay. And
[2:07:00] Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit is also referred to as the Spirit
[2:07:03] Speaker 1: of God just means the same thing.
[2:07:07] Speaker 5: The Holy Spirit is a reference to several things. The
[2:07:12] Speaker 5: understanding of Yahweh, the embodiment of the understanding of Yahweh,
[2:07:17] Speaker 5: Yahweh and shape and form. So just so that's clear,
[2:07:22] Speaker 5: Yahweh is spirit, Yahweh taking on shape and form. I
[2:07:29] Speaker 5: believe the the biographies of the Messiah written by Matthew, Mark, Luke,
[2:07:36] Speaker 5: and John, and the letters of admonition and correction to
[2:07:40] Speaker 5: the various assemblies by the Apostles.
[2:07:45] Speaker 1: Yes or no? Do you believe the New Testament?
[2:07:49] Speaker 3: Yes?
[2:07:49] Speaker 5: I'm just being careful the way it's answered because I'm
[2:07:52] Speaker 5: not coming from a Christian perspective, and I'm trying to
[2:07:54] Speaker 5: draw distinction through the answer.
[2:07:57] Speaker 1: So what does it mean In Ephesians four thirty when
[2:08:00] Speaker 1: Paul admonishes the Christians to not grieve the Holy Spirit
[2:08:06] Speaker 1: of God.
[2:08:08] Speaker 5: It's ellow Him within them. The true gospel is that
[2:08:11] Speaker 5: Yahweh Elohim or Yahweh shape and form abides within every man.
[2:08:15] Speaker 5: That's the true identity of every man within them. The
[2:08:19] Speaker 5: Spirit of your authority doesn't say ellow him the spirit.
[2:08:24] Speaker 5: And that's again because the name's been taken out. So
[2:08:26] Speaker 5: the reference of what's being talked about is in Ephesians.
[2:08:29] Speaker 5: For I believe at the beginning is also for pulses.
[2:08:31] Speaker 5: There's only one body, one spirit, one Yahweh, a father
[2:08:35] Speaker 5: of all, who is above all through in you all.
[2:08:38] Speaker 5: So with that premise of Yahweh, who is Spirit taking
[2:08:42] Speaker 5: on shape and form, and that form being within the
[2:08:44] Speaker 5: man that is who you should not grieve you is,
[2:08:52] Speaker 5: you can express it.
[2:08:54] Speaker 1: It's a it's a linguistic feature. A genitive implies possession,
[2:08:59] Speaker 1: like so I would say the pen of justin right,
[2:09:04] Speaker 1: it tells you that the pen is belonging to me
[2:09:07] Speaker 1: or has some reference to me.
[2:09:10] Speaker 11: Right.
[2:09:10] Speaker 1: So what we find in Ephesians four thirty is a
[2:09:14] Speaker 1: genitive the Holy Spirit of God. It's it's something that
[2:09:19] Speaker 1: belongs to God, which means it's a part of the
[2:09:25] Speaker 1: Godhead or the Trinity.
[2:09:26] Speaker 5: Right, it's part of his part of nature. Yes, I
[2:09:30] Speaker 5: should I should state that Yahweh, who is Spirit, has
[2:09:33] Speaker 5: two manifestations.
[2:09:35] Speaker 1: There there go, we finally got there. Okay, So in
[2:09:39] Speaker 1: your belief system you believe there are two spiritual manifestations.
[2:09:43] Speaker 1: One the Holy Spirit won the Father.
[2:09:46] Speaker 5: No, Yahweh Spirit has two manifestations, but it's a doctor
[2:09:59] Speaker 5: from the insta to the divine metaphysical research.
[2:10:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense now, cool, Okay,
[2:10:04] Speaker 1: So what does it mean in John sixteen thirteen or
[2:10:12] Speaker 1: fourteen when it says, But when he the Spirit of
[2:10:16] Speaker 1: Truth comes right, he will guide you in all truth.
[2:10:19] Speaker 1: For he will not speak on his own authority, but
[2:10:22] Speaker 1: he will speak whatever he hears, and will tell you
[2:10:26] Speaker 1: what is to come. He will glorify me because he
[2:10:28] Speaker 1: will receive from me what is mine. And I will
[2:10:31] Speaker 1: tell you so the spirit, the Spirit of Truth that
[2:10:35] Speaker 1: is expected to come is going to be receiving something
[2:10:39] Speaker 1: from somebody else, which means it must have some distinction,
[2:10:44] Speaker 1: and it's who it's talking to, who it's receiving information from.
[2:10:50] Speaker 5: And this is what I'm trying to express with Yahweh
[2:10:52] Speaker 5: being spirit and spirit Yahweh taking on shape and form.
[2:10:56] Speaker 5: That shape and form operates through the physical. That's shape
[2:11:00] Speaker 5: and is within every man, being within every man. That's
[2:11:03] Speaker 5: the spirit within every man. That's the spirit being sent
[2:11:07] Speaker 5: into man. At the same time, the term of the
[2:11:09] Speaker 5: Holy Spirit coming upon a man is also a relation
[2:11:12] Speaker 5: to the understanding of that spirit within you. Uh, you
[2:11:17] Speaker 5: coming to the cognizant understanding of that spirit within you.
[2:11:20] Speaker 1: Oh again, I'm trying to help you understand that the
[2:11:23] Speaker 1: Bible draws a distinction between God and the Spirit of God. Right,
[2:11:28] Speaker 1: So that's why it says in John sixteen that the
[2:11:31] Speaker 1: spirit will not speak on his own authority, meaning the
[2:11:36] Speaker 1: spirit has a different authority than God himself.
[2:11:42] Speaker 5: No, what I'm what I'm expressing here again? And if
[2:11:46] Speaker 5: if ye who is Yahwei's spirit? Right, spirit is abstract,
[2:11:49] Speaker 5: Yahweh takes on shape and form. If you look upon
[2:11:52] Speaker 5: that shape and form, you can't say that shape and
[2:11:55] Speaker 5: form is Yahweh. That's what we're talking about.
[2:11:59] Speaker 1: Focus up here. We're talking. We're talking about authority. We're
[2:12:04] Speaker 1: talking about authority. Right, Does the Holy Spirit have its
[2:12:07] Speaker 1: own authority separate from God, the Father's authority.
[2:12:11] Speaker 5: No, it's one authority, it's one spirit.
[2:12:14] Speaker 1: It can't be one authority because it says he will
[2:12:16] Speaker 1: not speak of his own authority, but only what he hears,
[2:12:20] Speaker 1: meaning he has its own mind, his own center of thinking.
[2:12:26] Speaker 5: It's the same statement as the Messiah's saying, I have
[2:12:29] Speaker 5: my own can do nothing. It's the Father in me
[2:12:31] Speaker 5: that do it the work. He's drawing distinction from the
[2:12:33] Speaker 5: shape and form and he who which is in the
[2:12:35] Speaker 5: shape and form and operating.
[2:12:37] Speaker 1: The shape and form has nothing to do with we're
[2:12:38] Speaker 1: talking right now, We're talking about authority. Either, do the
[2:12:42] Speaker 1: things that don't have shapes or forms, so just try
[2:12:45] Speaker 1: to try to stay in the actual conversation. So if
[2:12:48] Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit in John sixteen only speaks what is
[2:12:53] Speaker 1: given to him, then something is giving it to him.
[2:12:56] Speaker 5: Correct.
[2:12:59] Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, language been used to communicate an idea. Can
[2:13:04] Speaker 1: something be given to you if you already possess it?
[2:13:09] Speaker 5: Again, it's language that's been used to communicate and ideas,
[2:13:13] Speaker 5: So yes or no?
[2:13:14] Speaker 1: Can something be given to you if you already possess it?
[2:13:19] Speaker 5: No? Oh?
[2:13:20] Speaker 1: Cool? That means there must be some distinction between God,
[2:13:23] Speaker 1: the Father, Jesus in the Holy Spirit, because the Holy
[2:13:26] Speaker 1: Spirit not only has its own authority, his own authority
[2:13:30] Speaker 1: receives things from somebody else's authority, which means there's some
[2:13:33] Speaker 1: level of distinction that you're not wanting to make, but
[2:13:36] Speaker 1: it's right there in the book.
[2:13:39] Speaker 5: No, the distinction is again to communicate to men who
[2:13:42] Speaker 5: have no understanding of this, and again when men didn't
[2:13:45] Speaker 5: have an understanding of this when it first occurred.
[2:13:47] Speaker 1: Doesn't point at all, not even not even close. All right, Jonathan,
[2:13:53] Speaker 1: let's get back to the main point. Okay, I didn't
[2:13:55] Speaker 1: even ask you our typical opening question, what logical he's
[2:14:00] Speaker 1: of evidence or argumentation would lead me or anyone else
[2:14:04] Speaker 1: to believe that the God of this book, the God
[2:14:07] Speaker 1: you believe in.
[2:14:08] Speaker 5: Is true. The tangible evidence of the threefold pattern which
[2:14:12] Speaker 5: was given through Moses in the representation of the tangible Tabernacle.
[2:14:18] Speaker 1: All right, give me the argument.
[2:14:22] Speaker 5: Again. Moses was told to build the tabernacle according to
[2:14:26] Speaker 5: the pattern he was shown in the mount. The pattern
[2:14:29] Speaker 5: which is shown through the tangible Tabernacle is the pattern
[2:14:32] Speaker 5: for the construction and composition of everything in the physical
[2:14:35] Speaker 5: universe observing.
[2:14:38] Speaker 1: What do you think the physical universe is made out of?
[2:14:41] Speaker 5: Adams?
[2:14:43] Speaker 1: Do you do you understand that there are subatomic parts?
[2:14:47] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[2:14:48] Speaker 1: What are these sub atomic particles?
[2:14:56] Speaker 5: Quorks, quasars?
[2:15:00] Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, very good. Are there more than three
[2:15:03] Speaker 1: sub atomic particles?
[2:15:05] Speaker 5: Yes, there's almost nine.
[2:15:07] Speaker 1: I think I think there's a lot more. Actually, the
[2:15:12] Speaker 1: ones we know of as far as I'm aware, is
[2:15:14] Speaker 1: like almost thirty. So I think there there are hypothetical
[2:15:21] Speaker 1: ones that were that were still that we're still looking there.
[2:15:26] Speaker 1: So when we talk about what things are made of,
[2:15:30] Speaker 1: I don't see a triparte structure anywhere.
[2:15:34] Speaker 5: How many parts of the atom, proton, neutron, electron, Yes,
[2:15:38] Speaker 5: each individual part is comprised of other sub atomic particles.
[2:15:41] Speaker 1: Every every atom has more than just three.
[2:15:44] Speaker 5: Items protons, neutrons, and electrons. How many the atom, it
[2:15:52] Speaker 5: doesn't matter.
[2:15:56] Speaker 1: Okay, so everything, everything is made up of hundreds of items,
[2:16:03] Speaker 1: because the atom isn't the smallest particle. Neither is the
[2:16:09] Speaker 1: proton in the electron. There are other fundamental particles. You
[2:16:21] Speaker 1: got more to add on that or you already named
[2:16:24] Speaker 1: three of them.
[2:16:26] Speaker 5: Mm hmmm. A proton, nutrient, act, an electron, comprise the atom.
[2:16:31] Speaker 5: Those things surprise the atom, proton, neutron, electron, and comprised
[2:16:34] Speaker 5: of other sub atomic particles.
[2:16:36] Speaker 1: Yes, exactly subatomic particles. Yes, there are lots of things
[2:16:42] Speaker 1: sub atomic particles that exist that make.
[2:16:47] Speaker 5: Yahweh Is spirit took on shape and form. So those
[2:16:51] Speaker 5: sub atomic particles come together to create a.
[2:16:54] Speaker 1: Certainly do not which which part of which part of
[2:16:59] Speaker 1: they is the electron?
[2:17:02] Speaker 5: That would be a reference to Yashua.
[2:17:06] Speaker 1: And how do you know that Jesus is the electron?
[2:17:12] Speaker 5: Again through the through the structure of the tabernacle, showing
[2:17:15] Speaker 5: through the most holy placed holy place in court round
[2:17:18] Speaker 5: about the threefold nature of the tabernacle and its composition,
[2:17:21] Speaker 5: its composition and the duties of the priests held within
[2:17:25] Speaker 5: show forth the nature of pure spirit and the intermediate
[2:17:29] Speaker 5: and the physical explained.
[2:17:31] Speaker 1: And I'm asking you what is the connection between electrons
[2:17:35] Speaker 1: in Jesus.
[2:17:37] Speaker 5: The elect Through the electrons, we have the bonds which
[2:17:41] Speaker 5: produce the compounds which we have in the universe. Through
[2:17:45] Speaker 5: the bonds of valence. Electrons through elements create our compounds,
[2:17:49] Speaker 5: and the compounds construct the universe or are the are
[2:17:52] Speaker 5: the what we see in this physical universe? That that
[2:17:57] Speaker 5: in me, that in between between them which cannot be
[2:18:00] Speaker 5: seen and that which can be seen, is what represents Yoshua.
[2:18:06] Speaker 5: Joshua is the connecting factor between that which can be
[2:18:09] Speaker 5: seen and that which can't be seen, and brings it
[2:18:13] Speaker 5: into existence. That's why it says, and by him, through him,
[2:18:16] Speaker 5: were all things made that were made.
[2:18:17] Speaker 1: Okay, So you don't believe that protons do any bonding.
[2:18:22] Speaker 5: Protons are shown forth as pure spirit.
[2:18:27] Speaker 1: No, No, I'm asking about protons in the real world.
[2:18:31] Speaker 5: Yeah, protons. The attribute of protons, the principles of the
[2:18:35] Speaker 5: proton and how it interacts in the structure shows forth
[2:18:39] Speaker 5: its nature of relating to the most holy place, representing
[2:18:43] Speaker 5: pure spirit.
[2:18:44] Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know what script you're reading off of,
[2:18:46] Speaker 1: but does not answer my question. So I asked you
[2:18:48] Speaker 1: initially about how you connected electrons to Jesus, and you
[2:18:52] Speaker 1: said that because Jesus is a physical manifestation, assuming that
[2:18:57] Speaker 1: there are actual bonds. And you said, because electrons make bonds,
[2:19:02] Speaker 1: and as it turns out, protons make bonds too.
[2:19:05] Speaker 5: So no, that's that's That's not what I'm saying. Again,
[2:19:10] Speaker 5: I'm not relating to. If you're asking Jesus and you're
[2:19:14] Speaker 5: talking depend on your degree and you're talking about the
[2:19:17] Speaker 5: flesh incarnate, that's not what I'm referring to. When you're
[2:19:20] Speaker 5: when you're using the term Jesus, I'm using.
[2:19:22] Speaker 1: How many years did it take you to get your PhD?
[2:19:28] Speaker 5: Do you want to go on that or do you
[2:19:30] Speaker 5: want to go on a response to the question, because
[2:19:32] Speaker 5: you're holding presupposition we're going to do We're.
[2:19:35] Speaker 1: Going to do both. Actually, I'm just curious how many
[2:19:37] Speaker 1: years did it take you to clete your complete your degree?
[2:19:41] Speaker 5: Uh, it's the school offers the only degree the school offers,
[2:19:45] Speaker 5: and it's offered once you have a basic fundamental understanding
[2:19:48] Speaker 5: of the knowledge offered.
[2:19:51] Speaker 1: Yeah, So how many years did it take you to
[2:19:52] Speaker 1: your PhD?
[2:19:58] Speaker 3: I don't know.
[2:19:59] Speaker 5: My got it around. It was given to me ten
[2:20:04] Speaker 5: years after the fact.
[2:20:06] Speaker 1: It took you ten years to do it.
[2:20:10] Speaker 5: No, I could have gotten sooner. I didn't. I didn't
[2:20:12] Speaker 5: request it. I didn't want the documentation. It's also it's
[2:20:16] Speaker 5: the form of minister's license that the institute offers, and
[2:20:20] Speaker 5: it's a doctor because it's a school registered with the US,
[2:20:24] Speaker 5: and it's certainly.
[2:20:25] Speaker 1: Not a school. I can guarantee that. How much do
[2:20:27] Speaker 1: you pay for it?
[2:20:29] Speaker 5: The Institute of Divine Metaphysical Research. You don't pay anything
[2:20:32] Speaker 5: for it.
[2:20:33] Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense. Okay, So back at
[2:20:37] Speaker 1: the bar, you're you're trying to say that there's some
[2:20:40] Speaker 1: sort of a triparte structure that demonstrates the truthfulness of
[2:20:46] Speaker 1: the trinity. I suppose at this point, and you haven't
[2:20:49] Speaker 1: really demonstrated that there's a triparte structure that points to
[2:20:52] Speaker 1: a trinity.
[2:20:55] Speaker 5: It's not a trinity again. Yahweh's spirit spirit has two manifestations.
[2:21:00] Speaker 1: You can call it anything you want to. You're saying
[2:21:02] Speaker 1: there's a tripart structure that points to some sort of
[2:21:05] Speaker 1: other tripart structure.
[2:21:10] Speaker 5: I'm saying that the patterns threefold. Getting stuck on the
[2:21:13] Speaker 5: number three is where it gets messed up because it's
[2:21:16] Speaker 5: not a pattern of three, so to speak.
[2:21:19] Speaker 1: But your argument was threefold. You're the one stuck on three, not.
[2:21:22] Speaker 5: Me, old tangible tabernacle.
[2:21:26] Speaker 1: Yes, what was threefold about? The tabernacle?
[2:21:30] Speaker 5: A holy place, the most holy place, a holy placed
[2:21:33] Speaker 5: court around about. It's a threefold yet one tabernacle structure.
[2:21:37] Speaker 1: I heard two things. What's the third thing?
[2:21:40] Speaker 5: The most holy place? The holy place and the court
[2:21:43] Speaker 5: around about? The most holy place was its own chamber
[2:21:46] Speaker 5: within the holy place, which was its own chamber within
[2:21:48] Speaker 5: the court around about, which was its own chamber, separated
[2:21:51] Speaker 5: by veils.
[2:21:53] Speaker 1: M I'm worred.
[2:21:55] Speaker 5: So it's threefold structure.
[2:21:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, there's three locations within.
[2:22:00] Speaker 5: It, three chambers in one structure. That's a threefold tabernacle.
[2:22:06] Speaker 1: What chamber I would use for the inside, not for
[2:22:09] Speaker 1: the courtyard. The courtyard, I don't know if you could
[2:22:11] Speaker 1: call that a chamber, but I'm not sure that matters.
[2:22:13] Speaker 1: But I agree with you. There are three general locations within.
[2:22:19] Speaker 1: They were separated five veil, but they were separated. What
[2:22:24] Speaker 1: you're doing is basically like a funny form of like Paradolia,
[2:22:28] Speaker 1: where you're just looking at things and trying to find threes.
[2:22:32] Speaker 1: I could do the same thing with like fours or
[2:22:34] Speaker 1: fives or six. Is even None of this is actually
[2:22:37] Speaker 1: a compelling argument for why Christianity or whatever you believe
[2:22:40] Speaker 1: is true.
[2:22:42] Speaker 5: Like I said, if you get stuck on the number three,
[2:22:45] Speaker 5: that's where things will get a little bit.
[2:22:47] Speaker 1: But the three is your argument, not mine. You brought
[2:22:50] Speaker 1: up the three, not me.
[2:22:51] Speaker 5: No, I'm sad. I said that the tabernacle structure is
[2:22:57] Speaker 5: a form of tangible evidence given by a acclamation. Now
[2:23:00] Speaker 5: that everything in the physical universe was created by even existed,
[2:23:09] Speaker 5: I don't it's not the claim. The claim is simply that.
[2:23:14] Speaker 1: Is the tangible evidence. Then you have to demonstrate that
[2:23:17] Speaker 1: there was a tabernacle to begin with.
[2:23:21] Speaker 5: We have instructions within the scripture still there on how.
[2:23:24] Speaker 1: It Why would I believe that the Bible is true?
[2:23:28] Speaker 5: Oh again, I'm not saying that you have to believe
[2:23:31] Speaker 5: anything that's being said. I'm simply saying.
[2:23:35] Speaker 1: This is the problem with your argument. Your Your argument
[2:23:40] Speaker 1: first assumes that the Bible is true, which I don't
[2:23:42] Speaker 1: think it is, And second it practices this crazy theology
[2:23:46] Speaker 1: of if I find patterns, then I'm going to run
[2:23:49] Speaker 1: away with it and create theology based around these patterns.
[2:23:52] Speaker 1: And to me, that's silly. Let's start at the easy one.
[2:23:56] Speaker 1: Do you believe that the Bible is literally true and
[2:23:58] Speaker 1: everything or do you think it's more the metaphor.
[2:24:03] Speaker 5: It's true in everything. There are certain things that are
[2:24:06] Speaker 5: true that were given in a way for men to
[2:24:10] Speaker 5: understand without a mystery being revealed to them in a
[2:24:13] Speaker 5: lot of instances.
[2:24:15] Speaker 1: Okay, so when it makes claims we'll say about history,
[2:24:19] Speaker 1: then it can't be false about what it's making.
[2:24:22] Speaker 5: What the claim is making, it depends if it's something
[2:24:27] Speaker 5: that was interested in the scripture later on, or.
[2:24:33] Speaker 1: Is it guys or no. Can the Bible be wrong
[2:24:36] Speaker 1: about claims it makes about reality?
[2:24:39] Speaker 5: I no, But I'm saying that the Bible is not
[2:24:45] Speaker 5: held in store and it's original context of saying that
[2:24:50] Speaker 5: it has been altered, Well, how do you know which
[2:24:52] Speaker 5: parts have been altered? The only way to know is
[2:24:56] Speaker 5: by divine revelation.
[2:25:00] Speaker 1: The Bible is true except when it's not, And when
[2:25:02] Speaker 1: it's not, then God will give you divine revelation letting
[2:25:06] Speaker 1: you know why it's not true.
[2:25:09] Speaker 5: I'm just the Bible is true or the Bible is
[2:25:14] Speaker 5: the record of yahwa hazard. By that stand, it's not
[2:25:23] Speaker 5: whether or not the Bible is true, whether or not
[2:25:25] Speaker 5: the record has been held in store.
[2:25:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll try this again. You said the Bible is
[2:25:33] Speaker 1: true and all that it says unless it's been altered,
[2:25:37] Speaker 1: and your method of knowing what's been altered is God
[2:25:39] Speaker 1: will tell you.
[2:25:42] Speaker 5: I'm trying to trying to word my response in a
[2:25:45] Speaker 5: way to draw a distinction between the idea that Christians
[2:25:48] Speaker 5: have where the Scripture is the inherent word of God
[2:25:50] Speaker 5: and it's infallible. I don't hold that the Scripture is
[2:25:53] Speaker 5: the word of God. I hold that the Scripture is
[2:25:55] Speaker 5: a testimony of men, a written record, a compilation of
[2:25:58] Speaker 5: a written record of man who had written down their
[2:26:01] Speaker 5: testimony of when the Word of God came to them,
[2:26:04] Speaker 5: appeared to them and spoke to them.
[2:26:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, but are they true.
[2:26:08] Speaker 5: The records? Absolutely?
[2:26:09] Speaker 1: Okay, Cool, let's go to one of the records, though,
[2:26:12] Speaker 1: Act seven, because you are the ones who received the
[2:26:17] Speaker 1: law as ordained by angels, and yet you have not
[2:26:21] Speaker 1: kept his referring to the Jews. Yes, now, according to
[2:26:25] Speaker 1: the New Testament and according to some other extra biblical
[2:26:29] Speaker 1: Jewish literature, the law that was given to Moses was
[2:26:32] Speaker 1: actually given three angels. That's why it says here received
[2:26:34] Speaker 1: the law ordained by angels. Yes, and that's why we
[2:26:38] Speaker 1: find also in Acts seven thirty eight. And he is
[2:26:42] Speaker 1: the one who was in the congregation in the wilderness
[2:26:45] Speaker 1: with the Angel who spoke to him at Mount Sinai
[2:26:48] Speaker 1: with their ancestors. Can you show me where the Angel gave.
[2:26:54] Speaker 5: The laws on Mount Sinai. Yes, you can read Excellence
[2:26:58] Speaker 5: twenty four for the Aaron and by even the seventy
[2:27:03] Speaker 5: Oders of Israel. One a top Mount Sinai and saw
[2:27:06] Speaker 5: the hello Him of Israel, and he had under his feet. Yes,
[2:27:11] Speaker 5: but it didn't say angel, that's the Angel of that's
[2:27:16] Speaker 5: refer to.
[2:27:17] Speaker 1: Not.
[2:27:19] Speaker 5: If you pull up Exodus three, it says the Angel
[2:27:22] Speaker 5: of Yahweh was in the midst of the burning bush,
[2:27:24] Speaker 5: and it said an yellow and Yahwey spaking the Moses
[2:27:26] Speaker 5: and elo him said, so the Angel of Yahwa, the Angel.
[2:27:29] Speaker 1: Of Yahweh, is not Yahweh. The Angel of Yahweh has
[2:27:32] Speaker 1: a conversation with Yahweh and Zachariah.
[2:27:36] Speaker 5: And in Exodus three you can see that the Angel
[2:27:39] Speaker 5: of Yahweh. Ello and Elohim are both terms for Yahweh.
[2:27:43] Speaker 1: They're not.
[2:27:45] Speaker 5: They are in shape, and you're still wrong. Referred to
[2:27:49] Speaker 5: ASO or the angel of Yahwah.
[2:27:52] Speaker 1: Yahweh had this conversation with the messenger in the book
[2:27:57] Speaker 1: of Zachariah. If if Yahweh is the messenger, he can't
[2:28:01] Speaker 1: have a conversation with the messenger.
[2:28:04] Speaker 5: He is the messenger in Ernie Bush.
[2:28:07] Speaker 1: So he has a conversation with himself.
[2:28:10] Speaker 5: Yahweh is appearing in shape.
[2:28:11] Speaker 1: And does Yahweh have a conversation with himself? There's only
[2:28:15] Speaker 1: one speaking in the Does Yahweh have conversations with himself?
[2:28:22] Speaker 5: Yes. When he is taken upon himself the lower state
[2:28:25] Speaker 5: of existence, he will give glory into his higher estate,
[2:28:28] Speaker 5: not unto the state that.
[2:28:29] Speaker 1: He's so his mind splits into multiple personalities.
[2:28:32] Speaker 3: Not at all.
[2:28:33] Speaker 5: He understands exactly the persona and the state in which
[2:28:35] Speaker 5: he's taken upon himself.
[2:28:37] Speaker 2: So that's multiple.
[2:28:39] Speaker 1: You have to have multiple personalities to talk to yourself.
[2:28:44] Speaker 3: You do.
[2:28:45] Speaker 1: It's in fact, we'll see it. Here's an instance of it.
[2:28:47] Speaker 1: In Zacharie one twelve. The Angel of the Lord said, Oh,
[2:28:51] Speaker 1: Lord of Hosts, how long will you withhold mercy from Jerusalem?
[2:28:56] Speaker 5: M hm, the Holy Spirit make of intercessions to the Father.
[2:29:00] Speaker 5: Just make make sure you understand.
[2:29:01] Speaker 1: The Angel of the Lord said to himself self self,
[2:29:08] Speaker 1: how long we withhold mercy from Jerusalem? Yes, so he's schizophrenic.
[2:29:13] Speaker 5: Then he talks to himself a decree within his own heart.
[2:29:17] Speaker 1: Okay, so he was talking to himself. You know there
[2:29:19] Speaker 1: are two other people in this conversation, right, fine, Zachariah
[2:29:25] Speaker 1: and the Adversary are both here for this conversation, said
[2:29:31] Speaker 1: speaketh under. So then he talks, speaks to it. He
[2:29:34] Speaker 1: talks to himself.
[2:29:36] Speaker 5: He is he is fully aware. He's all that exists.
[2:29:39] Speaker 1: So make sure yes or no, God talks to himself.
[2:29:43] Speaker 5: Absolutely, he knows he's the only one to talk.
[2:29:46] Speaker 1: To Okay, just so you know, in twenty twenty five,
[2:29:48] Speaker 1: we lock people up that do that.
[2:29:51] Speaker 5: That's fine.
[2:29:52] Speaker 1: Like we put them in like little white coats and
[2:29:55] Speaker 1: strap their arms behind them and put them in pawdered room.
[2:29:57] Speaker 1: Sometimes if they're dangerous. I'm aware, okay, just just making
[2:30:02] Speaker 1: sure you're doubling down on God being schizophrenic. That's fine, okay.
[2:30:05] Speaker 5: So I am not saying now he's not talking. He
[2:30:09] Speaker 5: doesn't believe there's other voices he's talking to. He knows
[2:30:12] Speaker 5: he's all that exists. It would be actually mental insanity
[2:30:16] Speaker 5: of his own part if he's all that exists, if
[2:30:18] Speaker 5: there's something else for him to talk to.
[2:30:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think talking to yourself is mental insanity. You've
[2:30:23] Speaker 1: nailed it there. That's for real mental insanities when you
[2:30:26] Speaker 1: actually get to talk to yourself, and.
[2:30:29] Speaker 5: It would be a greater insanity the thing that you
[2:30:31] Speaker 5: have something else to talk to. If you know you're
[2:30:33] Speaker 5: all that exists, why would you talk to yourself? You're
[2:30:38] Speaker 5: all that exists. There's nothing else that works to be
[2:30:40] Speaker 5: going to.
[2:30:41] Speaker 1: But you're not all that exists. There's a whole planet
[2:30:44] Speaker 1: full of humans you can talk to.
[2:30:46] Speaker 5: We're talking about Yahweh, who is spirit is all that exists.
[2:30:50] Speaker 1: So Yahweh can't talk to humans.
[2:30:54] Speaker 5: Again, he's talking to himself.
[2:30:56] Speaker 1: In human I asked, you can God talk to humans?
[2:31:00] Speaker 5: What is a human?
[2:31:02] Speaker 1: Well, I mean a human being is a is a
[2:31:04] Speaker 1: biological entity that breathes air and processes blood and oxygen
[2:31:10] Speaker 1: and consumes calories from the or you know, energy as
[2:31:14] Speaker 1: you might say.
[2:31:15] Speaker 5: From the environment. When the body is declared that it's
[2:31:18] Speaker 5: no longer a human being.
[2:31:20] Speaker 1: No, it's it's fertilizer at that point.
[2:31:23] Speaker 5: Okay, okay, good. So there has to be life within
[2:31:27] Speaker 5: that body to constitute being a human being.
[2:31:30] Speaker 1: No. Life isn't a thing that exists independent of anything.
[2:31:34] Speaker 1: It's not a force, it's not an energy, not a thing.
[2:31:38] Speaker 5: I agree there, because even when the body is decomposing,
[2:31:42] Speaker 5: it has life within it, which is cause the decomposition.
[2:31:46] Speaker 1: So we'll we'll try, we'll try something that doesn't require
[2:31:49] Speaker 1: a trinitarian pretzel. Have you read Hebrews before? Yes? Sure?
[2:31:55] Speaker 1: Have you read the Old Testament?
[2:31:58] Speaker 5: Yes?
[2:31:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, According to the laws in the Old Testament, can
[2:32:01] Speaker 1: you get forgiveness of your sins without blood?
[2:32:05] Speaker 3: No?
[2:32:06] Speaker 1: No, And that seems to coincide with what we find
[2:32:09] Speaker 1: in Hebrews nine. It says without the shedding of blood,
[2:32:13] Speaker 1: there is no forgiveness of sins. So you agree with
[2:32:16] Speaker 1: that statement? How are they doing it? In Leviticus five
[2:32:20] Speaker 1: eleven with Flower says, if you cannot afford two turtle
[2:32:23] Speaker 1: doves or two pigeons, you shall bring, as you're offering
[2:32:26] Speaker 1: for the sin that you have committed, one tenth of
[2:32:28] Speaker 1: an ephah of choice flower for purification offering, and you
[2:32:32] Speaker 1: shall not put oil on it or lay Frankinson's on
[2:32:34] Speaker 1: it for a purification offering.
[2:32:44] Speaker 5: Is it a sin offering?
[2:32:45] Speaker 1: Yeah? Thus the priest shall make atonement on your behalf
[2:32:48] Speaker 1: for whichever of these sins you have committed. Mm hmm,
[2:32:55] Speaker 1: purification of it? It does flower bleed?
[2:33:01] Speaker 3: They had to die.
[2:33:02] Speaker 1: The wheat had to die to produce the flour. Yeah,
[2:33:04] Speaker 1: But does flower bleed?
[2:33:08] Speaker 5: It had to die.
[2:33:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, But does it bleed? There was bloodshed in heaven
[2:33:15] Speaker 1: before the physical blood according to script. Yeah, but flower bleeds.
[2:33:21] Speaker 1: Ask the question one hundred times, so you just say
[2:33:23] Speaker 1: yes or no? Does flower bleed?
[2:33:28] Speaker 5: Plants have blood? Yes?
[2:33:32] Speaker 1: Do you think wheat and barley have blood?
[2:33:36] Speaker 5: Do plants have blood?
[2:33:38] Speaker 3: Yes? They have.
[2:33:41] Speaker 5: Organism. That's not the point that I'm making. The life
[2:33:44] Speaker 5: is in the blood.
[2:33:45] Speaker 1: Why aren't we just taking blood transfusions from plants?
[2:33:47] Speaker 5: And you can do a blood transfusion with salt water,
[2:33:52] Speaker 5: and salt water is almost identical to plants blood.
[2:33:55] Speaker 1: No, not blood.
[2:33:58] Speaker 5: I know it's not blood similar to lasthma. What I'm
[2:34:01] Speaker 5: saying is a death must occur according to the same
[2:34:04] Speaker 5: book where you're trying to draw unique But I've.
[2:34:07] Speaker 1: Never I've never heard anyone say that we and Barley
[2:34:11] Speaker 1: have blood.
[2:34:14] Speaker 5: It's not really the point I'm trying to make. At
[2:34:16] Speaker 5: the point I'm trying to make is that a death
[2:34:17] Speaker 5: must occur.
[2:34:19] Speaker 1: That's not what hebrew says. Hebrew says nothing about death.
[2:34:23] Speaker 5: The shedding of blood is a representation of death.
[2:34:25] Speaker 1: Okay, So now blood doesn't mean blood.
[2:34:30] Speaker 5: Again, it says there was blood in heaven before there
[2:34:32] Speaker 5: was physical blood ever created, there.
[2:34:34] Speaker 3: Was a death.
[2:34:36] Speaker 5: Sure.
[2:34:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm just asking you, does Hebrews nine refer
[2:34:39] Speaker 1: to physical blood or spiritual blood?
[2:34:42] Speaker 5: It's referring to a death.
[2:34:44] Speaker 1: Okay, so blood doesn't mean blood.
[2:34:48] Speaker 5: No, I think it was referring to a death. That them.
[2:34:53] Speaker 1: So blood and death are two separate things. You're trying
[2:34:56] Speaker 1: to say they're the same thing.
[2:34:59] Speaker 5: Oh why they?
[2:35:00] Speaker 1: Why wouldn't Why wouldn't Hebrews nine just say without the
[2:35:04] Speaker 1: without the death, there is no forgiveness of sins.
[2:35:09] Speaker 5: Does it not say by his death?
[2:35:11] Speaker 1: No, that says without the shedding of blood, there's no
[2:35:15] Speaker 1: forgiveness of sins. Now, if it meant death, the author
[2:35:18] Speaker 1: could have just said, hey, without the death, there's no
[2:35:20] Speaker 1: forgiveness of sins.
[2:35:21] Speaker 5: They could have said that, but I did say that offering.
[2:35:25] Speaker 5: You have a purification offering, which you're leading to, but
[2:35:27] Speaker 5: it is not the atonement offering that had to be
[2:35:29] Speaker 5: once a year found passover. There was one offering of
[2:35:33] Speaker 5: a lamb that had actually for everyone.
[2:35:38] Speaker 1: See that's not true either that that's this. It's okay.
[2:35:44] Speaker 1: I know you didn't read your Bible because you got
[2:35:45] Speaker 1: a fake PhD. But in Leviticus sixteen, there are two goats, right,
[2:35:50] Speaker 1: one goat. One goat gets slain, and one goat has
[2:35:55] Speaker 1: all the sins of the people cast upon it, and
[2:35:58] Speaker 1: then they send it out in the desert. That's the
[2:36:01] Speaker 1: azz l. So that goat that takes on the sin
[2:36:04] Speaker 1: doesn't get slaughtered for anyone's sins.
[2:36:09] Speaker 5: Again, is there not blood that is done in that offering?
[2:36:13] Speaker 5: That is what cleanses the sin of the people. That
[2:36:16] Speaker 5: that's the sin, the sin offering, like the sin sacrifice,
[2:36:21] Speaker 5: if there's a whole thing dictating what has to be
[2:36:24] Speaker 5: done and nobody can says it to flower, it had
[2:36:27] Speaker 5: to have blood in that sacrifice.
[2:36:28] Speaker 1: In Leviticus sixteen, the goat that dies is killed so
[2:36:33] Speaker 1: it can purify the sanctuary, not the people. There's a
[2:36:38] Speaker 1: lamb that is slain, not in the Biggest sixteen.
[2:36:44] Speaker 5: It's a lamb or a goat May the first year
[2:36:47] Speaker 5: to be taken and used.
[2:36:48] Speaker 1: It is a goat.
[2:36:59] Speaker 5: Right up into that goat sacrifice, there's a lamb that
[2:37:02] Speaker 5: is sacrificed. There's now the past lambs.
[2:37:07] Speaker 1: Passover and Dan tumener are two completely different time periods.
[2:37:11] Speaker 5: I agree with you, and one pre sees the other.
[2:37:14] Speaker 1: Well, obviously one always precedes the other because they're both
[2:37:17] Speaker 1: on a site cyclical timeline. That's irrelevant. They don't happen
[2:37:21] Speaker 1: at the same time period.
[2:37:23] Speaker 5: The point is there's two. There's blood that is given.
[2:37:26] Speaker 5: We cannot be substituted for flower.
[2:37:29] Speaker 1: The blood in Levigause sixteen is not for the sins
[2:37:33] Speaker 1: of the people. It's for the purification of the sanctuary.
[2:37:36] Speaker 1: The thing that takes away the sin of the people
[2:37:39] Speaker 1: is the scapegoat, the one that carries their sin off.
[2:37:45] Speaker 5: Once a year, the children of Israel had to congregate
[2:37:48] Speaker 5: in front of the temple, and the priests had to
[2:37:50] Speaker 5: sacrifice and do a sacrifice of blood and go into
[2:37:53] Speaker 5: the most holy place once a year at that time
[2:37:55] Speaker 5: of the year to sprinkle blood on the part of
[2:37:58] Speaker 5: the covey and when he springs, yeah, it's exactly between
[2:38:02] Speaker 5: the wings of the covenant. And when the bells on
[2:38:04] Speaker 5: his on his spurs.
[2:38:06] Speaker 1: No, there's no bells. That's that's not in the Bible.
[2:38:08] Speaker 1: The children, that's not in the Bible.
[2:38:12] Speaker 5: He has had the hem of his garments where he
[2:38:18] Speaker 5: pulled on.
[2:38:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, I am making all that up. He again, you.
[2:38:22] Speaker 5: Could read in the construction of the Tabernacle the prist garments.
[2:38:25] Speaker 1: Show me, show me in the Bible. Show me the Bible.
[2:38:28] Speaker 1: It says that they tie a bell to people. Because
[2:38:33] Speaker 1: you're lying, you're making things up. This is this is
[2:38:37] Speaker 1: this is something that they This is something that they
[2:38:40] Speaker 1: did during Jesus' time period, and it had nothing to
[2:38:43] Speaker 1: do with God's commandment.
[2:38:46] Speaker 5: Again, I am not talking about the Talmudic idea of
[2:38:50] Speaker 5: the red h from and I am talking about how
[2:38:56] Speaker 5: the priest dormits were the priests garments had small bells
[2:38:59] Speaker 5: on the tassels on the hem of his garments. It
[2:39:03] Speaker 5: had bells and tassels, castles and bells. When he moved
[2:39:08] Speaker 5: through the most Holy place, then he was moving because
[2:39:11] Speaker 5: they could hear the small dingles of the bells. The
[2:39:13] Speaker 5: other priests could.
[2:39:15] Speaker 1: Show me that passage where it says that they had
[2:39:17] Speaker 1: bells on their tassels.
[2:39:20] Speaker 5: Again, I can't pull it up right now because if
[2:39:22] Speaker 5: I close this router and try to access something else,
[2:39:25] Speaker 5: it'll close it out entirely.
[2:39:27] Speaker 1: Because it doesn't exist.
[2:39:32] Speaker 5: I told you. All you have to do is look
[2:39:33] Speaker 5: at the construction of the priests garments, the garments of mercy,
[2:39:37] Speaker 5: and there.
[2:39:38] Speaker 1: Are no bells on their garments.
[2:39:42] Speaker 2: Okay, Okay.
[2:39:47] Speaker 5: The whole point I'm making is that there was a
[2:39:49] Speaker 5: sacrifice of blood that signaled the atonement for Israel once
[2:39:52] Speaker 5: a year, and it was mandated to be done with blood.
[2:39:55] Speaker 5: That is why Hebrews nine starts with the fall, going
[2:39:58] Speaker 5: into how the priests offered blood once a year in
[2:40:02] Speaker 5: the most holy place, and how the Visaiah now offers
[2:40:04] Speaker 5: blood once for everlasting, for an everlasting offering. That's how
[2:40:08] Speaker 5: for Heat Resigned starts. So you draw the distinction of
[2:40:11] Speaker 5: how it starts with how it ends, you'll get a
[2:40:13] Speaker 5: complete comprehension of what's actually be talked about.
[2:40:18] Speaker 1: Have you actually read the entire Bible, because it sounds
[2:40:20] Speaker 1: like you haven't.
[2:40:24] Speaker 5: Yes, I have read the entire Bible several times in
[2:40:27] Speaker 5: my life, and at the first few times I had
[2:40:29] Speaker 5: no understanding of any of it.
[2:40:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like you still don't, right, Okay, So
[2:40:38] Speaker 1: so back at the bar, I forgot how we got
[2:40:41] Speaker 1: on the sidetrack of bells we were.
[2:40:45] Speaker 5: I was showing you that the blood had to be given,
[2:40:47] Speaker 5: and you were saying that this offering of a flower.
[2:40:50] Speaker 1: Oh right, the blood, that's right. Okay. So we're back
[2:40:56] Speaker 1: on le Vidicas sixteen, right, and you were saying something
[2:40:59] Speaker 1: about a lamb, but there's no lamb in luvitic At sixteen.
[2:41:02] Speaker 5: I am saying that that offering had to be done,
[2:41:06] Speaker 5: an offering of atonement through blood had to be done,
[2:41:08] Speaker 5: and it could not be substituted to a flower. I'm
[2:41:10] Speaker 5: saying the reason why flowers a different ritual, and I'm
[2:41:15] Speaker 5: saying that flower constituted as an offering that was valid
[2:41:18] Speaker 5: right then and there before sin still a representation of
[2:41:20] Speaker 5: a death or sin.
[2:41:22] Speaker 1: Yes, so you can get forgiveness of your sins without
[2:41:24] Speaker 1: the shedding of blood. Yes you cannot, No, you can,
[2:41:29] Speaker 1: because flower doesn't bleed.
[2:41:32] Speaker 5: There was a purification offering where they could purify themselves
[2:41:35] Speaker 5: after they've committed a sin. But the sin was not
[2:41:37] Speaker 5: fully forgiven till the day of Atonement, when all the
[2:41:40] Speaker 5: sins that.
[2:41:43] Speaker 1: The Bible definitely doesn't say that that is.
[2:41:46] Speaker 5: What the day of Atonement was for.
[2:41:48] Speaker 1: Nope, mm hmm, nope.
[2:41:51] Speaker 5: What is the day of Atonement is.
[2:41:52] Speaker 1: To purify the temple and to cleanse the corporate sin
[2:41:57] Speaker 1: of the people.
[2:41:59] Speaker 5: Behole all the sins of the people.
[2:42:01] Speaker 1: Know, the corporate sins of the people, not the individual
[2:42:04] Speaker 1: sins of the people. The period the.
[2:42:06] Speaker 5: Corporate what's the time period? What's the explanation of time
[2:42:10] Speaker 5: period for the sins that are forgiven? Because it says,
[2:42:13] Speaker 5: it says what what sins are forgiven through that day
[2:42:15] Speaker 5: of Atonement, the corporate.
[2:42:17] Speaker 1: Sins of Israel. That's why they confess the sins of
[2:42:21] Speaker 1: they confess the sins of Israel over the scapegoat. The scapegoat,
[2:42:27] Speaker 1: which isn't executed or murdered, takes the sin away.
[2:42:33] Speaker 5: And what is it that it's supposed to the day
[2:42:37] Speaker 5: of Atonement is for for all the sins.
[2:42:39] Speaker 1: Or the cleansing of the temple. It's for the cleansing
[2:42:45] Speaker 1: of the temple. The scapegoat, yes, not the sacrificial goat.
[2:42:52] Speaker 5: Again, it's all hard of the day of Atonement. Yes,
[2:42:55] Speaker 5: there was a scapegoat. Did not Barbabas get or Barabas
[2:42:58] Speaker 5: get released?
[2:42:58] Speaker 1: Did the escapegoat get murdered? You're not, but you can't focus.
[2:43:02] Speaker 1: They're talking about Levigas sixteen. I need you to just
[2:43:04] Speaker 1: stand track. We're not talking about Barnabas. We're not talking
[2:43:07] Speaker 1: about bar Rabbis. We're talking about the scapegoat in Leviticus sixteen,
[2:43:12] Speaker 1: in Leviticus sixty sixteen, who who takes the sin of
[2:43:16] Speaker 1: the Israelites.
[2:43:20] Speaker 5: I agree with you that the sin was placed on
[2:43:23] Speaker 5: the scapegoat.
[2:43:23] Speaker 1: Is Barabbas the scapegoat?
[2:43:26] Speaker 5: You were a scapegoat in the sense with Hamsida so
[2:43:29] Speaker 5: Babis took the sins of the Israelites and all the
[2:43:32] Speaker 5: people of the world.
[2:43:32] Speaker 1: And you want goat all the ship, Hail bar Rabbis,
[2:43:38] Speaker 1: Hail bar Rabbis. No wonder they wanted to free that motherfucker.
[2:43:41] Speaker 1: He was the real Messiah.
[2:43:45] Speaker 5: Again, who was the one who went and gave his blood?
[2:43:49] Speaker 1: But blood? I want to I want to make sure
[2:43:51] Speaker 1: we're clear here. You're saying that Barabbas is the scapegoat,
[2:43:53] Speaker 1: But the scapegoat doesn't take any doesn't get murdered doesn't
[2:43:58] Speaker 1: get their bloodshed.
[2:44:00] Speaker 5: The sins are taking off the people placed in the scapegoat,
[2:44:03] Speaker 5: but there still has to be a sacrifice to forget.
[2:44:06] Speaker 1: The escapegoat's not murdered, though, Kyler, thank you for the.
[2:44:10] Speaker 5: There still has to be a sacrifice for the sins.
[2:44:13] Speaker 5: The mist has still died forever Rabbits.
[2:44:15] Speaker 1: The sacrifice for the sin actually happens before the two goats.
[2:44:19] Speaker 1: The first goat. Yes, the first goat is there to
[2:44:23] Speaker 1: purify the temple prior to the first goat being sacrificed.
[2:44:28] Speaker 1: What are they sacrificed? You know what's in the chapter?
[2:44:30] Speaker 1: Have you? I don't think you've actually read it.
[2:44:33] Speaker 5: There was a lamb or a goat of the first
[2:44:36] Speaker 5: year taking an itch, blood sprinkled off.
[2:44:38] Speaker 1: Not say lamb. There is no lamb in Leviticus sixteen.
[2:44:43] Speaker 5: The preparation of the entire thing.
[2:44:46] Speaker 1: There is no lamb in Leviticus sixteen.
[2:44:52] Speaker 5: That's the one where you were quoting the flower, right.
[2:44:55] Speaker 1: That's Levicas five, I think is sixteen the day of atonement.
[2:45:01] Speaker 1: There is no lamb.
[2:45:05] Speaker 5: There's a bull.
[2:45:06] Speaker 1: There is a bull, and then there are two goats.
[2:45:11] Speaker 1: M m. Not a single lamb in there, and the
[2:45:15] Speaker 1: blood of that goat is what which one one of
[2:45:19] Speaker 1: them gets killed and one of them doesn't.
[2:45:22] Speaker 5: Like I said, the sin gets placed on one and
[2:45:24] Speaker 5: one is used to purify the sin? Which one?
[2:45:27] Speaker 1: Which one is for the sin?
[2:45:31] Speaker 5: Which one is for the sin? The one that's slain,
[2:45:33] Speaker 5: and whose blood is used to sprinkle on the tap
[2:45:35] Speaker 5: on the ark of the covenant.
[2:45:36] Speaker 1: No, the sin is placed on the second goat.
[2:45:40] Speaker 5: Again, the blood that forgives the sin is the blood
[2:45:44] Speaker 5: that's that was from the animals that was sacrificed, who
[2:45:48] Speaker 5: sprinkled upon the ark of the covenant, And when Elohim
[2:45:51] Speaker 5: appeared between the wings of the chair them, they knew
[2:45:53] Speaker 5: that the sacrifice was accepted.
[2:45:55] Speaker 1: The first goat that gets killed is to purify the temple.
[2:46:01] Speaker 1: So let me let me explain to you. In the
[2:46:03] Speaker 1: Engineer East, they believe that sin was like a contagion. Right,
[2:46:08] Speaker 1: if somebody sinned in an area, the area became infected. Right,
[2:46:13] Speaker 1: That's what they believed. So you had to kill a
[2:46:15] Speaker 1: goat and smear its blood on the infected areas. It's
[2:46:19] Speaker 1: for the purification of the temple, not for the people.
[2:46:28] Speaker 5: And the sprinkling of the of the blood on the altar.
[2:46:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's part of the temple.
[2:46:36] Speaker 5: That is for the forgiveness of sins.
[2:46:38] Speaker 1: It's not. It's for the purification of already committed sins
[2:46:44] Speaker 1: that have spread to the physical location that they're residing in.
[2:46:51] Speaker 1: The sins are cast the sins of the people. The
[2:46:54] Speaker 1: sins that are residing on the people currently are cast
[2:46:58] Speaker 1: onto the scapegoat.
[2:47:07] Speaker 5: An escapegoat.
[2:47:10] Speaker 1: Forgive the sat doesn't bleed again.
[2:47:17] Speaker 5: Barabas did not bleed the messiah blood for him. There
[2:47:21] Speaker 5: is a scapegoat, and there is blood shed to forgive
[2:47:25] Speaker 5: those sins.
[2:47:26] Speaker 1: Is Jesus escapegoat or not? I told you was a
[2:47:32] Speaker 1: scapegoat in that Issuebis? Is the purification for anyone's sin?
[2:47:40] Speaker 5: Is there a goat of the sin offering that's killed?
[2:47:43] Speaker 1: Is Brabbis the purification for someone's sin again? Yes?
[2:47:52] Speaker 4: Or no?
[2:47:52] Speaker 1: Is Barabbas the purification for somebody's sin again?
[2:47:57] Speaker 5: The sins are placed upon him?
[2:47:59] Speaker 1: Yes or no?
[2:48:01] Speaker 5: He was the scapegoat?
[2:48:03] Speaker 1: Yes or no? Is Barappus in the New Testament taking
[2:48:07] Speaker 1: on anyone's sin?
[2:48:09] Speaker 2: No?
[2:48:10] Speaker 1: Okay, then he's not a scapegoat. He had nothing to
[2:48:13] Speaker 1: do with the agout sixteen.
[2:48:16] Speaker 5: Did the scapegoat. No, it was the scapegoat know it
[2:48:19] Speaker 5: was taking It doesn't matter.
[2:48:22] Speaker 1: It still had a function.
[2:48:24] Speaker 5: It was just a goat that was captured and then
[2:48:27] Speaker 5: let out free.
[2:48:28] Speaker 1: No it wasn't. The sins of the nation of Israel
[2:48:31] Speaker 1: were cast upon it.
[2:48:33] Speaker 5: So now the scapegoat knows that it's a scapegoat, it
[2:48:36] Speaker 5: knows that sins are placed upon it.
[2:48:37] Speaker 1: Its knowledge is irrelevant. What's happening here is a function.
[2:48:42] Speaker 1: The function of the scapegoat is to take the corporate
[2:48:45] Speaker 1: sin of the people and take it far away from
[2:48:48] Speaker 1: the camp. That's why it says, when he has finished
[2:48:50] Speaker 1: a toning for the Holy Place and the tent of
[2:48:53] Speaker 1: meeting and the altar, he will present the live goat.
[2:48:56] Speaker 1: Then Aaron Shelley both his hands on the head of
[2:48:58] Speaker 1: the live goat and confess over all the iniquities of
[2:49:02] Speaker 1: the Israelites and all of their transgressions, all of their sin,
[2:49:07] Speaker 1: putting them on the head of the goat and sending
[2:49:09] Speaker 1: it away into the wilderness. The sin of the people
[2:49:12] Speaker 1: are placed on the scapegoat, which means Barabbits can't be
[2:49:16] Speaker 1: the scapegoat if he didn't take on anyone sins.
[2:49:20] Speaker 5: And what happens with the goat of the sin offering.
[2:49:23] Speaker 1: We're not talking about that. We're talking about the scapegoat, Jonathan.
[2:49:28] Speaker 1: We'll try this again. Are the scapegoat and the first
[2:49:31] Speaker 1: goat the same goat?
[2:49:35] Speaker 4: No?
[2:49:35] Speaker 5: Okay?
[2:49:37] Speaker 1: Is one of them representative of Jesus and one of
[2:49:39] Speaker 1: them representative of Barabbas? Yes? Okay? Which one is representative
[2:49:45] Speaker 1: of Barabbas.
[2:49:47] Speaker 5: The scapegoat?
[2:49:48] Speaker 1: Okay? And does the scapegoat take anyone's sins? Yes?
[2:49:55] Speaker 3: Or no?
[2:49:55] Speaker 1: Does the scapegoat take anyone's sins? Yes? I'll read it
[2:50:01] Speaker 1: to you again. In fact, I'll put it on the
[2:50:02] Speaker 1: screen because I know you can't listen. Because when he
[2:50:05] Speaker 1: has finished atoning for the Holy Place and the tent
[2:50:08] Speaker 1: of meeting and the altar, he shall present the live goat.
[2:50:11] Speaker 1: Then Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head
[2:50:15] Speaker 1: of the live goat and confess over all the iniquities
[2:50:18] Speaker 1: of the Israelites and all their transgressions, all their sins,
[2:50:23] Speaker 1: putting them on the head of the goat, and sending
[2:50:26] Speaker 1: it away into the wilderness by means of someone designated
[2:50:30] Speaker 1: for the task. The goat shall bear on itself all
[2:50:35] Speaker 1: their iniquities, all of them. Yes, did bear anyone's iniquities?
[2:50:42] Speaker 5: The goat didn't take anything.
[2:50:44] Speaker 1: Did Barabbas bear anyone's iniquities?
[2:50:47] Speaker 5: Yes, because the people those him instead of the Okay,
[2:50:53] Speaker 5: sobis is.
[2:50:56] Speaker 1: Is the forgiveness of sins, not Jesus.
[2:50:59] Speaker 5: You're ignoring the goat that was used for the sin offering.
[2:51:03] Speaker 1: Please show me in the New Testament where where the
[2:51:05] Speaker 1: the sin of the Israelites were confessed over Barabbas so
[2:51:10] Speaker 1: he can take them out.
[2:51:12] Speaker 5: You're trying to It's like, don't try to pigeonhole me again.
[2:51:16] Speaker 1: Don't don't try to read the text precisely. Don't call
[2:51:20] Speaker 1: in the question my loosely my loosely held metaphorical views.
[2:51:26] Speaker 5: No, you read the text exactly. You keep centering on
[2:51:30] Speaker 5: a scapegoat, and there's two goats.
[2:51:33] Speaker 1: Were just because we're talking about the scapegoat right now,
[2:51:36] Speaker 1: we're talking we're talking to hey, fake doctor, we're talking
[2:51:41] Speaker 1: about one of the goats right now, one of them.
[2:51:45] Speaker 1: One of the goats takes all of the sins of
[2:51:48] Speaker 1: the people, which means if b is the scapegoat, that
[2:51:52] Speaker 1: means Barabbas took all of the sins of the people,
[2:51:56] Speaker 1: which means the Bible is not true. When it says
[2:51:58] Speaker 1: that Jesus took all of the sins of the people,
[2:52:03] Speaker 1: all the sins, it says he took him on himself. Yes,
[2:52:07] Speaker 1: so then he didn't. He's the scapegoat and Brabbis is not.
[2:52:13] Speaker 2: Bro it's both, he's not.
[2:52:15] Speaker 1: It can't be both. If Brabbis is one of.
[2:52:17] Speaker 5: Them, he's that's that's him as a scapegoat, and that's
[2:52:22] Speaker 5: him as the goat getting slain.
[2:52:24] Speaker 1: Okay, so Jesus, So Jesus is both goats, he's he's
[2:52:28] Speaker 1: all of it. So then Brabbis is nothing.
[2:52:32] Speaker 5: Again, you're trying to pigeonhole a the scapegoat because you
[2:52:35] Speaker 5: made a statement.
[2:52:38] Speaker 1: This is your medaphor. So I just want to make
[2:52:40] Speaker 1: sure we're just want to make sure we're a clear
[2:52:43] Speaker 1: fake doctor. You believe that Jesus is both goats, and
[2:52:46] Speaker 1: also Brabbis is the scapegoat, So there are two scapegoats.
[2:52:51] Speaker 5: You made the statement the other goat was used for
[2:52:53] Speaker 5: the purifying of the temple, when it says right there,
[2:52:55] Speaker 5: the other goat's blood was used to sprinkle for an
[2:52:57] Speaker 5: offering for the sin.
[2:52:58] Speaker 1: It says, to make it come in. He says, to
[2:53:00] Speaker 1: make atonement for the Holy Place. It says, we'll try
[2:53:04] Speaker 1: you'll try this again. I'll put it up on the
[2:53:06] Speaker 1: screen when he has finished atoning for the Holy Place
[2:53:13] Speaker 1: and the tent of meaning meeting. That's what he did
[2:53:16] Speaker 1: with the first goat. The first goat atones for the
[2:53:20] Speaker 1: Holy place. Doctor, this is what happens when you don't
[2:53:25] Speaker 1: go to a real school and you go to a
[2:53:27] Speaker 1: fake school, and you waste all your time and money
[2:53:30] Speaker 1: on a fake degree and you have literally no understanding
[2:53:34] Speaker 1: of the biblical texts. This is no money and this
[2:53:38] Speaker 1: is really is really not a great showing for you.
[2:53:43] Speaker 5: Again, you keep oviscating away from the fact that it
[2:53:45] Speaker 5: says that the goat's blood was used to sanctify the
[2:53:47] Speaker 5: people from all the sins. The sins are placed on
[2:53:51] Speaker 5: one goat. The gump was let go. The sins still
[2:53:53] Speaker 5: have to be forgiven. Something still has to be done
[2:53:56] Speaker 5: with the sins. They don't just wander around.
[2:53:58] Speaker 1: Fake doctor, How does the sin get placed on the
[2:54:02] Speaker 1: second goat if they're already forgiven with the first goat.
[2:54:06] Speaker 5: It doesn't have to be placed on the goat for
[2:54:09] Speaker 5: what sins? What sins are left?
[2:54:11] Speaker 1: What sins are left to be carried.
[2:54:13] Speaker 5: Away the sins that are still on the goat.
[2:54:17] Speaker 1: But no, the first goat's already been slaughtered.
[2:54:21] Speaker 5: Again, the sins that are on the goat again, the
[2:54:24] Speaker 5: live got the goat that's out there.
[2:54:25] Speaker 1: The sins get placed on the goat after the first
[2:54:29] Speaker 1: goat is already slaughtered. So if the first goat is
[2:54:33] Speaker 1: already slaughtered and already made atonement for, then what's the
[2:54:37] Speaker 1: point of the second goat if they've already made a tonement.
[2:54:41] Speaker 5: Because the sins have to be taken off from the
[2:54:44] Speaker 5: people still the representation of it, they've already been atoned for.
[2:54:50] Speaker 5: But that's how they're able to be taken off the people.
[2:54:52] Speaker 1: Okay, So the sins stay on the people, whether they're
[2:54:55] Speaker 1: a toned for or not.
[2:54:58] Speaker 5: Sins have to be taken off the people.
[2:54:59] Speaker 1: That that's why I said, with or without an atonement,
[2:55:05] Speaker 1: the sins must still be taken off the people. Yes, okay.
[2:55:11] Speaker 1: So then in Leviticus five, when they made sin sacrifices,
[2:55:15] Speaker 1: the sin sacrifices didn't do anything.
[2:55:18] Speaker 5: It says, you'll remember your sin no more if your
[2:55:20] Speaker 5: sin has been.
[2:55:22] Speaker 1: Try this again in Leviticus five, when it says that
[2:55:25] Speaker 1: their sins are forgiven. Their sins aren't forgiven? Are they.
[2:55:30] Speaker 5: Sins?
[2:55:31] Speaker 1: Leviticus four and five have a series of sin offerings.
[2:55:37] Speaker 1: If those offerings don't remove and atone for your sin,
[2:55:42] Speaker 1: then they're useless.
[2:55:44] Speaker 5: No, they're used to purify you so that you're not
[2:55:47] Speaker 5: in a state of sin where you're not still regarded
[2:55:49] Speaker 5: as a state of sin. That's what it is.
[2:55:52] Speaker 1: Your sin still there? Yes, okay, so then you're still
[2:55:58] Speaker 1: in a state of sin. No, you've been, No, you
[2:56:03] Speaker 1: haven't been. If you're still if the sin is still
[2:56:06] Speaker 1: on you, then you're not. You haven't removed it. It's
[2:56:08] Speaker 1: still there. You're still in the sin.
[2:56:15] Speaker 5: Again. It's a purification, So you're purified.
[2:56:18] Speaker 1: Purification of what.
[2:56:22] Speaker 5: The same?
[2:56:25] Speaker 2: Okay?
[2:56:25] Speaker 1: So are your sins? Are your sins purified or not?
[2:56:32] Speaker 5: The person is purified the sin.
[2:56:37] Speaker 1: They what are they purified of.
[2:56:40] Speaker 5: It's like if you're in a state of condemnation because
[2:56:42] Speaker 5: you fox someone over and you go and apologize, that
[2:56:45] Speaker 5: state of condmination goes away. That's that's a purification.
[2:56:48] Speaker 1: Doctor, Hey, doctor fake PhD. What are they purified of?
[2:56:53] Speaker 1: I just told you again, name name. I don't need
[2:56:58] Speaker 1: an analogy, I need a word and name the thing.
[2:57:00] Speaker 1: What is the thing? They're purified of the guiltiness. Okay,
[2:57:05] Speaker 1: that's sin.
[2:57:08] Speaker 5: Yes, the word guiltiness, offense, and to miss are all
[2:57:11] Speaker 5: translated as sin incorrectly because they're three different words.
[2:57:14] Speaker 1: Oh that's right. Yeah, I forgot. You got your fake
[2:57:16] Speaker 1: Hebrew PhD too. I'm sure.
[2:57:19] Speaker 5: Oshma, kutta, and cuttas are three different people words that
[2:57:23] Speaker 5: are all translated as sin.
[2:57:25] Speaker 1: No, they're not always translated in sin. Some of them,
[2:57:27] Speaker 1: uh as you'll find, are translated.
[2:57:29] Speaker 5: As perfect as sin. Guilty four all all three all
[2:57:35] Speaker 5: the instances of sin. If you look them up, they're
[2:57:37] Speaker 5: all three different words. Oshma, kutta, and kutas are all
[2:57:40] Speaker 5: three translated as sina, katas is, cut taw and cut pass.
[2:57:48] Speaker 1: What about katas.
[2:57:51] Speaker 5: Cut tata? I guess the throat the throat thing? Yeah, man,
[2:57:55] Speaker 5: I can roll my tongue, my tongue better for ours
[2:57:58] Speaker 5: in Spanish than I can.
[2:57:59] Speaker 1: For he Yeah, what about raw?
[2:58:03] Speaker 3: What about it?
[2:58:04] Speaker 1: What about raka?
[2:58:07] Speaker 5: What about it?
[2:58:08] Speaker 1: A lot of different words to define sin?
[2:58:13] Speaker 5: Again, you're just proven the point that there's multiple different
[2:58:15] Speaker 5: words that are translated as one word. Yet we have
[2:58:17] Speaker 5: more words applied to in individualistic words, and it leads
[2:58:21] Speaker 5: to a confusion because you have you have offer, you
[2:58:24] Speaker 5: have an offense, guilt, the state of guiltiness from when
[2:58:27] Speaker 5: you make an offense, and the this this the the
[2:58:31] Speaker 5: the missing of the mark of the law, all being
[2:58:34] Speaker 5: translated as sin, giving a false pretense of what's even
[2:58:37] Speaker 5: being sucked about. Because you can have an offering that
[2:58:39] Speaker 5: claim to you of your guiltiness, and it's an offering
[2:58:42] Speaker 5: done for your offense, and it's an offense that causes
[2:58:45] Speaker 5: you guiltiness.
[2:58:46] Speaker 1: And you can do an offering to be cleared of
[2:58:47] Speaker 1: the guiltiness and you still bear the offense. Okay, what
[2:58:50] Speaker 1: is guiltiness?
[2:58:52] Speaker 5: Guiltiness is a state of condemnation within a person.
[2:58:57] Speaker 1: That is certainly not the case.
[2:59:03] Speaker 5: It can also be a state of judgments, but decree
[2:59:06] Speaker 5: of judgment.
[2:59:07] Speaker 1: So so guilt it just means you are responsible for something.
[2:59:11] Speaker 1: It's a it's a statement of fact.
[2:59:15] Speaker 5: Yes, okay. The state of connemination is within a person
[2:59:19] Speaker 5: they know they are guilty.
[2:59:20] Speaker 1: So if you're if you're not guilty of a sin,
[2:59:23] Speaker 1: that means you don't bear the sin.
[2:59:28] Speaker 5: Like again, if you don't the guiltiness is a decree
[2:59:32] Speaker 5: of judgment for missing the mark, which is the offense.
[2:59:36] Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, mm hmm.
[2:59:39] Speaker 5: So you can be cleansed of the guiltiness, but you
[2:59:41] Speaker 5: still the offense is still made. You have to be
[2:59:43] Speaker 5: atoned for the offense.
[2:59:46] Speaker 1: Show me that in the Bible, because now you're making
[2:59:48] Speaker 1: stuff up.
[2:59:50] Speaker 2: I'm not.
[2:59:53] Speaker 3: Tow me like.
[2:59:53] Speaker 5: This is what the they have Atonement was and this
[2:59:56] Speaker 5: you that cleans them of their guiltiness. No, no, of
[3:00:00] Speaker 5: their guiltiness. They still had to go through the day
[3:00:02] Speaker 5: of atonement.
[3:00:04] Speaker 1: The day of atonement is a whole separate ritual. Is
[3:00:08] Speaker 1: it's about the corporate guilt, not the individual guilt of
[3:00:11] Speaker 1: the individual person.
[3:00:15] Speaker 5: See right here Leviticus sixteen at fifteen. Then shall he
[3:00:18] Speaker 5: kill the goat of the sin offering that is for
[3:00:20] Speaker 5: the people, and bring his blood within the veil and
[3:00:23] Speaker 5: do with that blood as he did with the Yes.
[3:00:25] Speaker 1: And does the blood get sprinkled on the people or
[3:00:28] Speaker 1: on the temple.
[3:00:30] Speaker 5: On the mercy seat?
[3:00:31] Speaker 1: It's okay, So the blood purifies the temple, not the people.
[3:00:36] Speaker 5: No, No, the mercy seat is where the angel the
[3:00:42] Speaker 5: do the people?
[3:00:43] Speaker 1: Do the people sit on the atonement seat?
[3:00:47] Speaker 5: No, the blood isn't The blood is is atonement to
[3:00:50] Speaker 5: you if.
[3:00:51] Speaker 1: The blood, if the blood is the the item that purifies,
[3:00:55] Speaker 1: and it doesn't get sprinkled on the people, then in fact,
[3:00:58] Speaker 1: they don't get purified.
[3:01:00] Speaker 5: It's not being sprinkled on the mercy seat for purification.
[3:01:03] Speaker 1: It is, Yes, it is because the sins of the
[3:01:06] Speaker 1: people need to be purified from the temple. The day
[3:01:09] Speaker 1: of atonement is about the purification of temple. If you
[3:01:12] Speaker 1: read even a cursory introductory to atonement theology from like
[3:01:18] Speaker 1: even something as simple as like a Bible Dictionary entry
[3:01:22] Speaker 1: on levitic Is sixteen, you would find this information. This
[3:01:26] Speaker 1: is like one oh one type information for Biblical studies.
[3:01:30] Speaker 1: Like you're not even in the one o one classes.
[3:01:32] Speaker 1: You're like the guy who went to a Bible study
[3:01:34] Speaker 1: and thinks that he has like a PhD in Biblical
[3:01:37] Speaker 1: studies when you don't even have the one o one
[3:01:39] Speaker 1: stuff under your belt.
[3:01:40] Speaker 5: Yet it never says in Livitic sixteen that he made
[3:01:44] Speaker 5: in atonement for the most holy place.
[3:01:46] Speaker 1: It does because for this it's just for the holy place.
[3:01:51] Speaker 5: Yes, and the mercy seed exists where the most holy place.
[3:01:54] Speaker 1: Yes, there's three different and he makes it and he
[3:01:57] Speaker 1: makes atonement for it upon mostly upon it upon it,
[3:02:04] Speaker 1: he shall slaughter the goat of purification offering. We'll do
[3:02:07] Speaker 1: it again. I know you weren't listening the first time,
[3:02:10] Speaker 1: or maybe the third time. He shall slaughter the goat
[3:02:13] Speaker 1: of the purification offering that is for the people, and
[3:02:15] Speaker 1: bring its blood inside the curtain, to do with its
[3:02:19] Speaker 1: blood as he did with the blood of the bull,
[3:02:23] Speaker 1: sprinkling it upon the cover, and before the cover, the
[3:02:28] Speaker 1: blood of atonement goes on the mercy seats.
[3:02:34] Speaker 5: What's the blood?
[3:02:35] Speaker 1: For the blood for the people, the people who have
[3:02:39] Speaker 1: for the people, not for not on the people. Is
[3:02:42] Speaker 1: to purify the sin that has spread to the place
[3:02:45] Speaker 1: where the people are. So try this again. We'll try
[3:02:51] Speaker 1: this again, fake doctor. You'll never learn if you don't listen.
[3:02:56] Speaker 1: You'll never learn if you don't listen in class, Okay,
[3:03:00] Speaker 1: the blood is the vehicle of purification. The blood itself
[3:03:05] Speaker 1: is the vehicle of purification. The blood itself is slaughtered
[3:03:10] Speaker 1: and then spread, or the animal is slaughtered, and the
[3:03:12] Speaker 1: blood is spread not on the people, but on the
[3:03:15] Speaker 1: place that has been sullied by the sin of the people. Wow.
[3:03:20] Speaker 5: No, the mercy seat was never sully the people.
[3:03:24] Speaker 1: The whole temple, the whole temple, because the sin spreads
[3:03:28] Speaker 1: the Nope, it says he should make atonement for the
[3:03:32] Speaker 1: sanctuary because of the uncleanliness of the Israelites. It's right there,
[3:03:35] Speaker 1: he will make atonement for the sanctuary. The atonements not
[3:03:39] Speaker 1: for the people. The atonement is for the sanctuary because
[3:03:43] Speaker 1: of and why why does the sanctuary need atone for
[3:03:47] Speaker 1: Because the uncleanliness of the Israelites, and because of their
[3:03:51] Speaker 1: transgressions and all of their sins. So you will do
[3:03:54] Speaker 1: this to the holy place, behind the curtain, in the
[3:03:58] Speaker 1: tent of meeting, everywhere else, everywhere where the uncleanliness of
[3:04:02] Speaker 1: the people may be gets purified by the blood. If
[3:04:05] Speaker 1: you even cracked open for five minutes, like a base
[3:04:09] Speaker 1: commentary like the Jacob Miilgrim commentary on Leviticus, this would
[3:04:14] Speaker 1: be we started. We started, We started on Hebrews nine,
[3:04:23] Speaker 1: and this is where we led to you making false claims.
[3:04:26] Speaker 1: So in Hebrews, in Hebrews, I'm just going to turn
[3:04:31] Speaker 1: you down. In Hebrews nine twenty two it says, indeed,
[3:04:34] Speaker 1: under the law, almost everything is purified with blood, and
[3:04:37] Speaker 1: without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins,
[3:04:42] Speaker 1: which means Leviticus five is wrong when it says that
[3:04:46] Speaker 1: there is forgiveness of sins through the offering of a
[3:04:50] Speaker 1: tenth of an efa of fine flower.
[3:04:53] Speaker 5: Now pull up Hebrews nine, verse seven, all right, we'll.
[3:04:57] Speaker 1: Go back, says, but only the high priest goes into
[3:05:02] Speaker 1: the second meaning the second point of sanctuary, but once
[3:05:08] Speaker 1: a year, and not without taking the blood that he
[3:05:11] Speaker 1: offers for himself and for the sins committed unintentionally by
[3:05:14] Speaker 1: the people. By this, the Holy Spirit indicates, yes, we're
[3:05:18] Speaker 1: all aware of the day of Atonba. It works. We're
[3:05:21] Speaker 1: talking about we're talking about We're talking about nine two.
[3:05:26] Speaker 1: And in nine twenty two he makes a blanket statement
[3:05:30] Speaker 1: saying without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness
[3:05:33] Speaker 1: of sins, which is just patently false, because not only
[3:05:35] Speaker 1: did Jesus forgive people's sins prior to his shedding of
[3:05:39] Speaker 1: the blood didn't require any offerings or sacrifices, so did
[3:05:41] Speaker 1: John the Baptist, and so does Leviticus five, verse eleven,
[3:05:46] Speaker 1: says that you can offer a tenth of an efa
[3:05:48] Speaker 1: of fine flower as your sin offering, which does in
[3:05:51] Speaker 1: fact forgive your sins.
[3:05:54] Speaker 5: Again, Paul makes it clear right there. The leviticut the
[3:05:57] Speaker 5: day of atonement of the blood that you keep contending
[3:05:59] Speaker 5: with the purification of the the he didn't.
[3:06:02] Speaker 1: He didn't say the day of atonement. We'll try this again.
[3:06:05] Speaker 1: I know readings hard for some people. So he says,
[3:06:08] Speaker 1: without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins.
[3:06:11] Speaker 1: He doesn't say on the day of atonement. He says
[3:06:14] Speaker 1: without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins,
[3:06:19] Speaker 1: which means which means Leviticus, which means Leviticus five eleven
[3:06:24] Speaker 1: is false. It's it's a useless sacrifice.
[3:06:28] Speaker 5: The day of atonement was the only day the priest
[3:06:30] Speaker 5: went in and sprinkled buod for the for the for
[3:06:32] Speaker 5: the shedding of uh, for the shedding of blood for sins.
[3:06:34] Speaker 5: That's the only day in the that was.
[3:06:37] Speaker 1: If you you'd be completely wrong Leviticus five, Leviticus five.
[3:06:41] Speaker 1: You've got sin offerings for the forgiveness of the sins,
[3:06:44] Speaker 1: to atone for those sins.
[3:06:47] Speaker 4: I know.
[3:06:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, during the year, I know, yeah, I know. And
[3:06:53] Speaker 1: and Hebrews nine doesn't say just on one day, it's
[3:06:57] Speaker 1: it's a general statement, says there is no forgiveness without
[3:07:01] Speaker 1: the shedding of blood, it.
[3:07:03] Speaker 5: Says, But into the second went the high priest alone
[3:07:06] Speaker 5: once every year. There's only one time in the year
[3:07:08] Speaker 5: where the high priest went in to sprinkle the blood
[3:07:10] Speaker 5: for sins.
[3:07:11] Speaker 1: Yes, and then later it's not talking about that because
[3:07:15] Speaker 1: he goes into the the food rituals, right, it says,
[3:07:19] Speaker 1: but talks about the drink offering or the food rituals,
[3:07:23] Speaker 1: but deal only with food and drink and various baptism
[3:07:26] Speaker 1: regulations for the body. Blah blah blah, blah blah blah.
[3:07:29] Speaker 5: He's drawing a distinction between the law given them bosis
[3:07:32] Speaker 5: and the reality the law shows the Messiah. That's what
[3:07:34] Speaker 5: he's throwing before, with the high priests having to go
[3:07:36] Speaker 5: once a year to sacrifice blood to sprinkle for the
[3:07:38] Speaker 5: sense of how great is it that the Messiah went
[3:07:41] Speaker 5: the high priests of high priests went in and to
[3:07:44] Speaker 5: sacrifice for tournity.
[3:07:46] Speaker 1: Well, first of all, first of all, he didn't, so.
[3:07:51] Speaker 5: Second of all eleven.
[3:07:53] Speaker 1: Second of all, second of all, is quite clear that
[3:07:56] Speaker 1: the entire chapter isn't about the day of Atonement. And
[3:08:00] Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, doctor Jonathan, but
[3:08:01] Speaker 1: I've already turned your mic down so just yelling over
[3:08:04] Speaker 1: me makes it so no one can hear you. Right,
[3:08:06] Speaker 1: if you want to have a productive conversation, I highly
[3:08:09] Speaker 1: suggest that you don't just shout over me. Listen. You're
[3:08:12] Speaker 1: welcome to do it. People do it all the time.
[3:08:14] Speaker 1: I'm just letting you know that no one can hear
[3:08:16] Speaker 1: you when you do it. So if you keep reading
[3:08:19] Speaker 1: in the chapter, it's clear that verse seven isn't the
[3:08:22] Speaker 1: entirety of the chapter. He says four, when every commandment
[3:08:26] Speaker 1: had been told to all the people by Moses in
[3:08:29] Speaker 1: accordance with the law, is that the day of atonement
[3:08:33] Speaker 1: is Verse nineteen The day of atonement, says four. I'll
[3:08:37] Speaker 1: put it on the screen. I don't know if you
[3:08:38] Speaker 1: can see it, but everyone else can see it. Verse
[3:08:41] Speaker 1: nineteen says four, when every commandment had been told to
[3:08:45] Speaker 1: all the people by Moses in accordance with the law,
[3:08:47] Speaker 1: he took the blood of the calves and the goats
[3:08:50] Speaker 1: with water and scarlet wool, and hiss up and sprinkled
[3:08:53] Speaker 1: both the scroll itself and all the people. Is that
[3:08:55] Speaker 1: the day of atonement? No, oh, it's not that. It's
[3:09:00] Speaker 1: almost it's almost like Chapter nine talks about multiple things,
[3:09:04] Speaker 1: not just the day of atonement.
[3:09:06] Speaker 5: Oh, I'm not saying.
[3:09:08] Speaker 1: Okay, So when we get the verse twenty two, he's
[3:09:12] Speaker 1: not saying on the day of atonement, he's just making
[3:09:15] Speaker 1: a general statement. He says, without the shedding of blood,
[3:09:19] Speaker 1: there is no forgiveness of sins. He gave examples in
[3:09:23] Speaker 1: chapter nine about how blood was atonement for people's sins,
[3:09:27] Speaker 1: and then he ends it by making a false blanket
[3:09:30] Speaker 1: statement and stating without the shedding of blood, there's no
[3:09:33] Speaker 1: forgiveness of sins, which is simply not true.
[3:09:39] Speaker 5: It's again, you are drawing one part. It's like, oh,
[3:09:42] Speaker 5: it's not about atonement. It's about atonement and other sacrifices
[3:09:45] Speaker 5: to show forth that the Messiah is the sacrifice above
[3:09:48] Speaker 5: all sacrifices, that all the sacrifices twenty two.
[3:09:51] Speaker 1: But there's nothing, there's nothing in the Old Testament about
[3:09:55] Speaker 1: messiah sacrifice. We're still talking about the meaning of verse
[3:09:58] Speaker 1: twenty two. And I know that, like words are really
[3:10:00] Speaker 1: difficult for you because you went to a fake school,
[3:10:02] Speaker 1: but I need you actually pay attention to what's happening here.
[3:10:05] Speaker 1: We're talking about the second half. We're talking about the
[3:10:08] Speaker 1: second half of verse twenty two. The second half of
[3:10:12] Speaker 1: verse twenty two makes a blanket statement. Didn't say marriage, ceremony,
[3:10:18] Speaker 1: doesn't say day of atonement. It says without the shedding
[3:10:21] Speaker 1: of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins, which certainly
[3:10:24] Speaker 1: is not the case.
[3:10:27] Speaker 5: It says that almost all things, by the law purge
[3:10:30] Speaker 5: of blood, and without the shedding of blood is no remission.
[3:10:32] Speaker 5: There was no remission of sins without the shedding of blood,
[3:10:34] Speaker 5: which is the day.
[3:10:35] Speaker 1: No, man, you would be wrong.
[3:10:37] Speaker 5: Almost all things are by the law purge without purge,
[3:10:42] Speaker 5: thank you.
[3:10:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, doesn't say a purified there we go, purified there
[3:10:47] Speaker 1: we go. So now let's talk purification is what happens
[3:10:51] Speaker 1: when you sprinkle blood on something. And there were multiple
[3:10:54] Speaker 1: ways a purified thing. So he's wrong here. Well, he's
[3:10:58] Speaker 1: not actually wrong. He says under the law all most
[3:11:00] Speaker 1: everything is purified by blood. But that's there's a lot
[3:11:03] Speaker 1: of things purified with water and with fire. There's water
[3:11:07] Speaker 1: and there's fire purification in the Old Testament. So he's
[3:11:10] Speaker 1: missing two other forms of purification. But that's irrelevant. We're
[3:11:14] Speaker 1: talking about the forgiveness of sins, not the purification that
[3:11:23] Speaker 1: would be verse twenty five, where it goes back to
[3:11:25] Speaker 1: the day of Atonement.
[3:11:26] Speaker 5: He's talking.
[3:11:26] Speaker 1: We're talking about verse twenty two. In verse twenty two,
[3:11:30] Speaker 1: he says there's no forgiveness of sins without the shedding
[3:11:32] Speaker 1: of blood, which is literally false in in Second Samuel,
[3:11:36] Speaker 1: in Second Samuel, chapter twenty or chapter twelve, David is
[3:11:42] Speaker 1: forgiven no bloodshed at all. That when Nathan. When Nathan confronts,
[3:11:52] Speaker 1: what's he say, God has already forgiven your.
[3:11:54] Speaker 5: Sins, he still has to go through the day of Atonement.
[3:11:58] Speaker 1: Nope, Then God didn't forgive his sins.
[3:12:01] Speaker 5: Do you know what the Day of Thomas was for
[3:12:03] Speaker 5: the sins of that year and the next year. It
[3:12:05] Speaker 5: was to cover both the everything you did that year
[3:12:07] Speaker 5: and for the next year.
[3:12:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly not the case. But I'm talking about Second
[3:12:11] Speaker 1: Samuel twelve. When David confesses his sins, was he forgiven
[3:12:18] Speaker 1: or not?
[3:12:19] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[3:12:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, okay it did?
[3:12:22] Speaker 5: Hweh gave us the reality of his actions.
[3:12:25] Speaker 1: Okay, oh okay. So God does forgive sins without shedding
[3:12:29] Speaker 1: of blood.
[3:12:29] Speaker 5: Sometimes under the law it was required that blood had
[3:12:34] Speaker 5: to be shed.
[3:12:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but uh, in Second Samuel twelve, did
[3:12:39] Speaker 1: Yahweh forgive David without the shedding of blood?
[3:12:43] Speaker 5: It's he still had to go through the day of atonement.
[3:12:46] Speaker 1: So yes, he did forgive David without the shedding of blood.
[3:12:52] Speaker 5: The shedding of blood at the prior year covered that year.
[3:12:55] Speaker 1: Okay, so then the atonement rituals aren't necessary at all.
[3:12:58] Speaker 1: You don't need any of Lividia's for five.
[3:13:04] Speaker 5: It does it was under the law.
[3:13:07] Speaker 1: The pretzels are wild with this one. All right, let's
[3:13:10] Speaker 1: let's end on my favorite Bible passage, Deuteronomy twenty two.
[3:13:15] Speaker 5: Have you read it? Yes, it was all the top
[3:13:21] Speaker 5: of my head.
[3:13:22] Speaker 1: No, okay, that's fine. Says Suppose a man marries a woman,
[3:13:27] Speaker 1: but after going into her dislikes her and makes up
[3:13:30] Speaker 1: charges against her, slandering her by saying, I married this woman,
[3:13:33] Speaker 1: but when I lay with her, I did not find
[3:13:35] Speaker 1: evidence of her virginity. The father of the young woman,
[3:13:38] Speaker 1: and the father of the young woman and the mother
[3:13:40] Speaker 1: shall then submit the evidence of the young woman's virginity
[3:13:43] Speaker 1: to the elders of the city at the gate. Now
[3:13:46] Speaker 1: what evidence do you suspect the man was looking.
[3:13:49] Speaker 5: For the rupturing of her hymen?
[3:13:54] Speaker 1: The blood?
[3:13:54] Speaker 3: Right?
[3:13:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, hymen, says the father of the young
[3:14:01] Speaker 1: woman shall say to the elders. I gave my daughter
[3:14:03] Speaker 1: a marriage to this man, but he dislikes her, and
[3:14:05] Speaker 1: now he's made up charges against her, saying, I did
[3:14:07] Speaker 1: not find evidence of your daughter's virginity. But here's the
[3:14:10] Speaker 1: evidence of my daughter's virginity. Then they shall spread out
[3:14:12] Speaker 1: the cloth before the elders of the town. Okay, so
[3:14:15] Speaker 1: it's pretty clear now. If she bled, it should be
[3:14:18] Speaker 1: retained on the cloth.
[3:14:19] Speaker 5: Correct, Yep, she will cool.
[3:14:25] Speaker 1: Now if there's no blood on that cloth, what happens
[3:14:28] Speaker 1: to her?
[3:14:30] Speaker 5: She was treated as a whore.
[3:14:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, it says, if, however, the charge is true, that
[3:14:34] Speaker 1: the evidence of the young women's virginity was not found,
[3:14:36] Speaker 1: then they shall bring the young woman out to the
[3:14:38] Speaker 1: entrance of her father's house, and the men of her
[3:14:40] Speaker 1: town shall stone her to death because she committed a
[3:14:43] Speaker 1: disgraceful act by prostituting herself and her father's house. Okay, So,
[3:14:48] Speaker 1: if if a woman doesn't bleed on her wedding night
[3:14:51] Speaker 1: on that sheet, you can have her stone then, correct,
[3:14:56] Speaker 1: She let me stone right, all right?
[3:14:58] Speaker 5: It wasn't even or she would be stunned.
[3:15:01] Speaker 1: Okay, So it's it's a guarantee, all right.
[3:15:03] Speaker 5: Are you aware that if there was no blood on
[3:15:06] Speaker 5: the marriage, she would stone if his if the husband
[3:15:09] Speaker 5: brought an acculation up against her.
[3:15:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, what percentage of women do you think actually bleed
[3:15:13] Speaker 1: on their first time.
[3:15:15] Speaker 5: In that instance? Every single one?
[3:15:18] Speaker 1: Do you have evidence for that?
[3:15:20] Speaker 5: During the time of Israel, every single one. The same
[3:15:23] Speaker 5: one who made it to where a baron will could
[3:15:24] Speaker 5: produce a child, is the same one who guaranteed that
[3:15:27] Speaker 5: every virgin would show forth blood.
[3:15:29] Speaker 1: Then how come the Jewish rabbis disagree with you and
[3:15:31] Speaker 1: wrote about the many instances where it didn't happen, and
[3:15:34] Speaker 1: in fact they even bragged, They even bragged, they even
[3:15:40] Speaker 1: bragged about it, them not rupturing the hymen on purpose.
[3:15:48] Speaker 1: Like I said, I don't care about the tumble explanations
[3:15:50] Speaker 1: of things.
[3:15:51] Speaker 5: Uh.
[3:15:52] Speaker 1: So it says, let's find this one in the Talman says,
[3:15:57] Speaker 1: unlike talking about the rupturing of the hymen is unlike
[3:16:01] Speaker 1: the Babylonians who are not experts in diverting during intercourse
[3:16:05] Speaker 1: and are unable to engage in intercourse without rupturing the hymen,
[3:16:08] Speaker 1: there are those who are experts in diverting. Therefore, a
[3:16:12] Speaker 1: rupture of the hymen is not of an inevitable consequence.
[3:16:17] Speaker 1: So like the Hebrews even prior or post the time
[3:16:21] Speaker 1: of Jesus knew about and were purposely going into women
[3:16:27] Speaker 1: so that they wouldn't cause the hymen the rupture.
[3:16:31] Speaker 5: Yeah, Talmudic lies.
[3:16:33] Speaker 1: Okay, so nothing in the tomm is true.
[3:16:37] Speaker 5: No, Talmudic lies. They think that they're making it a hymen,
[3:16:39] Speaker 5: not rupture when an actuality, it's just a horror.
[3:16:43] Speaker 1: How come the Greeks wrote about it too.
[3:16:46] Speaker 5: The reason the law was given in that manner is
[3:16:48] Speaker 5: because Yahweh was guaranteed that there was going to be
[3:16:50] Speaker 5: a showing of blood.
[3:16:51] Speaker 1: Ever, so we're sure the Greeks and the Greeks and
[3:16:54] Speaker 1: the Jews both wrote in their literature about how women
[3:16:58] Speaker 1: don't always bleed on their first time, and those are
[3:17:01] Speaker 1: all just lies.
[3:17:03] Speaker 5: No, I'm speaking referring. I'm speaking directly about the israel
[3:17:06] Speaker 5: Israelite women of that time. There was going to be
[3:17:09] Speaker 5: a showing of blood. I'm not talking about every other one.
[3:17:11] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[3:17:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm asking for the evidence of that, because the
[3:17:14] Speaker 1: evidence from history disagrees. No, the law is not the evidence. No,
[3:17:23] Speaker 1: it's literally not. The law is evidence that whoever wrote
[3:17:25] Speaker 1: this doesn't know how female body works. Whoever wrote this
[3:17:29] Speaker 1: belief that women always bleed their first time and they
[3:17:32] Speaker 1: just simply don't.
[3:17:35] Speaker 5: I understand that that conclusion that you can draw from it.
[3:17:37] Speaker 5: But if you're going to go with the perspective that
[3:17:39] Speaker 5: the one who gave the law is the one who
[3:17:41] Speaker 5: dictates what occurs with the body, and that's by him
[3:17:43] Speaker 5: giving the law, he's dictating that he will make it
[3:17:46] Speaker 5: to where every virgins him and rapsters.
[3:17:48] Speaker 1: So then then all the women in ancient Greece and
[3:17:51] Speaker 1: in ancient Israel that said that that they they had
[3:17:54] Speaker 1: sex and they didn't bleed, they were all lying.
[3:17:57] Speaker 5: I'm not talking about ancient Greece, so I'm exctly talking
[3:17:59] Speaker 5: about those made fell into that law.
[3:18:02] Speaker 1: The ancient, ancient, ancient Hebrews said that there were instances
[3:18:07] Speaker 1: the women not bleeding as well.
[3:18:09] Speaker 5: Where is this kunfangled new evidence of ancient Hebrew writing?
[3:18:15] Speaker 5: As part as we know, we don't have any ancient writing.
[3:18:17] Speaker 5: All you have to tell modive rap on history. You
[3:18:20] Speaker 5: don't have any ancient Hebrew writings accounting for what ancient
[3:18:23] Speaker 5: Hebrews went through.
[3:18:25] Speaker 1: Besides the scriptures, the Talmud records events that predated Jesus.
[3:18:30] Speaker 5: You know, that right, I understand this traditions that have
[3:18:34] Speaker 5: been recorded since a Babylonian and just like.
[3:18:37] Speaker 1: Just like the Bible, there are texts that record things
[3:18:41] Speaker 1: that happened after they were written or before they were written. Right,
[3:18:45] Speaker 1: So if you're if you're just gonna say everything in
[3:18:49] Speaker 1: the Talmud is false, then I'm just gonna say everything
[3:18:51] Speaker 1: in the Bible is false. I'll just I'll throw it out,
[3:18:54] Speaker 1: just like you throw the Bible out. So all all
[3:18:57] Speaker 1: you've done is demonstrated that you don't actually care about
[3:19:00] Speaker 1: what's true in history. You just believe that my one,
[3:19:04] Speaker 1: my one favorite book is true, everything else is wrong.
[3:19:09] Speaker 5: No, the talm Mode is commentary about the book. You
[3:19:12] Speaker 5: can't throw out one book and keep the other.
[3:19:13] Speaker 1: It's not just about the book. It's about life. It's
[3:19:17] Speaker 1: full of laws about life. It's full of stories about
[3:19:20] Speaker 1: people that actually existed. Did did the people in the
[3:19:23] Speaker 1: Talmud actually exist? Did the people in the Talmud actually exist?
[3:19:29] Speaker 5: You know there are people of rabbis over history that existed.
[3:19:32] Speaker 1: Of course, Well, how do you know which parts are
[3:19:33] Speaker 1: true which ones aren't?
[3:19:35] Speaker 5: Just because I have a compendium of commentary from various mensines,
[3:19:38] Speaker 5: which ones.
[3:19:39] Speaker 1: Are true, which people in the which people in the
[3:19:41] Speaker 1: Talmud actually lived in which ones didn't.
[3:19:45] Speaker 5: I would have I would I would speculate about ninety
[3:19:48] Speaker 5: percent of them did. I think there's only a few
[3:19:50] Speaker 5: that are in contention as possibly just being kind of
[3:19:52] Speaker 5: like uh uh, pop, what do you call it? Like
[3:19:56] Speaker 5: mythological figures?
[3:19:57] Speaker 1: By what means when the town it brings it this
[3:20:01] Speaker 1: case law and says that there are women who didn't
[3:20:04] Speaker 1: bleed on their wedding night, By what means are you
[3:20:06] Speaker 1: using to determine that that's a false story.
[3:20:10] Speaker 5: By the means of the law which the Talmud is
[3:20:13] Speaker 5: based off of.
[3:20:14] Speaker 1: And under that law you're starting with, the Bible must
[3:20:17] Speaker 1: be true, therefore the Talmud must be false.
[3:20:21] Speaker 5: No, I'm starting with the fact that the Talmud exists
[3:20:24] Speaker 5: because the Bible exists.
[3:20:25] Speaker 1: That's irrelevant. We're asking whether or not something is true
[3:20:28] Speaker 1: to history. You're saying the Talmid when it says something
[3:20:32] Speaker 1: can't be true because it disagrees with the Bible. Your
[3:20:35] Speaker 1: starting point is the Bible must be true and the
[3:20:38] Speaker 1: Talmid can't be true.
[3:20:41] Speaker 5: Oh, I think there's men who wrote in the Talmud
[3:20:43] Speaker 5: that record to try to substantiate.
[3:20:49] Speaker 1: And I'm not asking you about those I'm asking you
[3:20:53] Speaker 1: about the many cases where women are reported to not
[3:20:57] Speaker 1: bleed on their first time doing the deed. By what
[3:21:00] Speaker 1: means can you determine that those are false stories that
[3:21:05] Speaker 1: are made up by people other than I don't believe
[3:21:08] Speaker 1: it because it disagrees with my Bible. Oh no, I said,
[3:21:12] Speaker 1: I know that they're lying because true anybody that That's
[3:21:17] Speaker 1: what I said. Yeah, your starting point if it must
[3:21:19] Speaker 1: be false, because the Bible can't be false, that's your
[3:21:22] Speaker 1: starting point. That's not an argument.
[3:21:25] Speaker 5: There starting.
[3:21:27] Speaker 1: You would have to you would have to demonstrate that
[3:21:30] Speaker 1: the Bible is true to begin with.
[3:21:35] Speaker 5: And that's what I try to bring up with the
[3:21:36] Speaker 5: tangible tabernacle on that which was a.
[3:21:40] Speaker 1: Which was a joke of an argument. It was a
[3:21:43] Speaker 1: little joke of an argument.
[3:21:46] Speaker 5: That's what you because you keep interrupting and you you're
[3:21:49] Speaker 5: obiscating what I'm saying. It's trying to pigeon whole certain statements.
[3:21:52] Speaker 3: No, it was.
[3:21:53] Speaker 1: It was a joke of an argument. Finding a pattern
[3:21:56] Speaker 1: of threes, going into a book and saying, look, I
[3:21:58] Speaker 1: see a pattern of threes. Is meaningless.
[3:22:01] Speaker 5: No, they the main proclamation of the claim is that
[3:22:04] Speaker 5: in all the recorded, the recorded sayings or accounts for
[3:22:08] Speaker 5: any deity in man's recorded history, there is no deity
[3:22:11] Speaker 5: besides Yahweh and the scriptures proclaiming that they created by pattern.
[3:22:15] Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll try this again, because you didn't actually address
[3:22:17] Speaker 1: what I said. You went into a book and you said,
[3:22:20] Speaker 1: I see a pattern of threes. Therefore God.
[3:22:24] Speaker 5: Oh again, I'm saying that if you're going to do
[3:22:27] Speaker 5: an investigation of these on man's recorded histories, it's all
[3:22:31] Speaker 5: I'm saying from that premise of is God imaginary? Does
[3:22:34] Speaker 5: God exist? Is there evidence of God? Well, from that
[3:22:37] Speaker 5: point you would have to investigate. Do you think it's
[3:22:38] Speaker 5: a to God?
[3:22:41] Speaker 1: Do you think if it's ever justified for women to
[3:22:45] Speaker 1: be raped as a punishment for their husband's sins.
[3:22:49] Speaker 5: I already know you're gonna bring in David's son rape
[3:22:51] Speaker 5: and his concubines in front of the whole place of
[3:22:53] Speaker 5: his Yeah, happy thing. You could try to take me
[3:22:58] Speaker 5: to it. I know Yahweh told him that his almost
[3:23:00] Speaker 5: gonna do it. He kept doing what he was doing,
[3:23:02] Speaker 5: and he kept feeling what he was doing, and his
[3:23:03] Speaker 5: son did it.
[3:23:04] Speaker 1: Well, that's not what it says I wanted to actually
[3:23:05] Speaker 1: read it with me.
[3:23:07] Speaker 5: Yahweh tells David what would happen? He prophesized David what
[3:23:11] Speaker 5: would happen?
[3:23:11] Speaker 1: Yeahweh says he's causing it. So we'll start from the beginning.
[3:23:16] Speaker 1: You know that Abson raped ten of David's concubines, right,
[3:23:19] Speaker 1: Dad Abslom was David's son, And did David wash Well,
[3:23:22] Speaker 1: we'll try this again. It's a yes or no question. Doctor.
[3:23:25] Speaker 1: Are you aware that Abslom raped ten of David's wives?
[3:23:30] Speaker 5: Absolutely?
[3:23:31] Speaker 1: Okay, fantastic, We had a starting point. Now, who's causing it?
[3:23:35] Speaker 1: Why does it.
[3:23:36] Speaker 5: Happen because of David's disobedience?
[3:23:40] Speaker 1: Okay, So it's a punishment for David, right yep? And
[3:23:44] Speaker 1: who decided what the punishment would be?
[3:23:47] Speaker 5: Yahweh told him exactly what would happen?
[3:23:49] Speaker 1: Okay, So God had ten of David's wives rape for
[3:23:53] Speaker 1: his sin.
[3:23:56] Speaker 5: Yeah, that's concubinees taken.
[3:23:58] Speaker 1: Any think it's a good thing.
[3:24:01] Speaker 5: That was what occurred for dis obedience?
[3:24:04] Speaker 1: Do you think it's just.
[3:24:11] Speaker 5: It was looked at as a David himself? It's conque
[3:24:13] Speaker 5: minds one with him?
[3:24:14] Speaker 1: Try this again. Do you think it's just for women
[3:24:17] Speaker 1: to pay for their husband's crimes.
[3:24:26] Speaker 5: I don't see a differentiation between the women and David.
[3:24:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll try this again. Do you think it's just
[3:24:31] Speaker 1: for women to pay for their husband's crimes?
[3:24:35] Speaker 5: Yes?
[3:24:36] Speaker 1: Okay? So are you married?
[3:24:39] Speaker 5: Yes?
[3:24:40] Speaker 1: So like if you robbed a liquor store, you'd be
[3:24:42] Speaker 1: okay with you and your wife going to prison.
[3:24:46] Speaker 5: If it was yes, if it was just uh again,
[3:24:51] Speaker 5: this is what I mean by pigeonholding. I'm not trying
[3:24:53] Speaker 5: to get pigeon holding this kind of thing right here.
[3:24:55] Speaker 1: Make sure you send this to this guy's wife. Make
[3:24:58] Speaker 1: sure she knows that he's willing to make take the
[3:25:00] Speaker 1: fall for him.
[3:25:02] Speaker 5: My wife's listening, Like.
[3:25:09] Speaker 1: If you're if you're safe, wife, you can speak up.
[3:25:12] Speaker 1: Let us know you're not chained up in the basement somewhere.
[3:25:17] Speaker 5: She's free.
[3:25:20] Speaker 1: So just to be clear, you would be okay then,
[3:25:22] Speaker 1: like if you committed adultery, you'd be okay with your
[3:25:24] Speaker 1: wife being raped.
[3:25:26] Speaker 5: That's not it I I in today's age, this world,
[3:25:31] Speaker 5: I understand. He cannot keep my eyes on.
[3:25:34] Speaker 1: We'll try this again. If you committed adultery, you'd be
[3:25:37] Speaker 1: okay with your wife being raped for it. Adultery is
[3:25:42] Speaker 1: cheating on it has nothing to do. We'll try this again.
[3:25:44] Speaker 1: If you committed adultery, would you be okay with God
[3:25:47] Speaker 1: having your wife raped his punishment? That is the.
[3:25:54] Speaker 5: That is the judgment that I faced. If I commit adultery.
[3:25:57] Speaker 1: Against We'll try this again. It's okay, it's a yes.
[3:26:00] Speaker 1: So you would be okay with your wife being.
[3:26:02] Speaker 5: Raped, me, all my any relation of me on this earth,
[3:26:08] Speaker 5: if I go against him?
[3:26:09] Speaker 1: Okay. So I want to make sure you say this
[3:26:11] Speaker 1: in the presence of your wife, since now that we
[3:26:13] Speaker 1: know she's there. Say say it out loud, I'm okay
[3:26:16] Speaker 1: with my wife being raped. If I commit adultery, I.
[3:26:21] Speaker 5: Am okay with everything that could possibly happen.
[3:26:24] Speaker 1: Anything that's not what I said. That's not what I said.
[3:26:27] Speaker 1: Try it again, Say what I said. I'm okay everything.
[3:26:31] Speaker 1: I'm okay with my wife being raped. If I commit
[3:26:34] Speaker 1: adultery again, I'm saying, why can't you say it anything,
[3:26:41] Speaker 1: John anything, Johnathan, say it?
[3:26:43] Speaker 5: Say it.
[3:26:43] Speaker 1: Say I'm okay with my wife being raped for my sins.
[3:26:47] Speaker 5: Anything I love, being raped, tortured, murdered, killed, whatever.
[3:26:51] Speaker 1: You want to call it, any kind of deviation, any kind.
[3:26:54] Speaker 5: Of vile thing you can have, but imagine happening to them.
[3:26:57] Speaker 5: I'm fine with them being wiped away from ex since
[3:27:00] Speaker 5: if I turned my eyes from dohway, I know that punishment.
[3:27:03] Speaker 1: Let's check him. Thanks for actually giving us answer at
[3:27:05] Speaker 1: the end. All right, Well, listen, thank doctor. We we've
[3:27:09] Speaker 1: had We've had quite a good conversation. But I've got
[3:27:11] Speaker 1: to hang it up. I've got somewhere to be at
[3:27:13] Speaker 1: ten o'clock.
[3:27:15] Speaker 5: No problem. Hopefully h.
[3:27:22] Speaker 1: Really doing the Lord's work there, isn't he. I assumed
[3:27:26] Speaker 1: he was going to double down on that based on
[3:27:28] Speaker 1: how the conversation had went so far. I I wasn't
[3:27:32] Speaker 1: sure how much he would double down on it. To
[3:27:35] Speaker 1: be honest, that might have been. That might have been
[3:27:39] Speaker 1: the most doubling down on that I've ever heard in
[3:27:42] Speaker 1: my life. I don't know if I've heard anyone double
[3:27:46] Speaker 1: down worse than that. That might be. That might be
[3:27:50] Speaker 1: the the worst I've heard so far. Well, it was
[3:27:57] Speaker 1: all right, friends, I've got to read some super chats
[3:27:59] Speaker 1: and I gotta be out of here by ten o'clock.
[3:28:01] Speaker 1: We're going to go raid Sarah's debate. Sarah's debating. At
[3:28:04] Speaker 1: ten o'clock, we're going to go raid her at ten o'clock,
[3:28:07] Speaker 1: and then I'm going to be debating with Sarah on
[3:28:09] Speaker 1: her TikTok channel. So if you're not following leaving faith
[3:28:14] Speaker 1: on TikTok, we're going to be continuing the debate over
[3:28:17] Speaker 1: at her place at ten o'clock. Billy says, much love, justin.
[3:28:21] Speaker 1: I hope you had a good holiday. Appreciate that. Billy
[3:28:25] Speaker 1: and I had a great alladay. I hope you're having
[3:28:27] Speaker 1: a good summer. TTV says, must be nice to go
[3:28:31] Speaker 1: full time and take two weeks off. Welcome back, hey,
[3:28:34] Speaker 1: I do appreciate that. Actually, so when I was when
[3:28:38] Speaker 1: I was working as an engineer, I got a full
[3:28:40] Speaker 1: month of vacation. I got full A full four weeks
[3:28:43] Speaker 1: actually went by the time I quit. Give me a second,
[3:28:46] Speaker 1: by the time I quit, I think I had a
[3:28:47] Speaker 1: full five weeks of paid vacation. I don't get any
[3:28:52] Speaker 1: I don't get paid vacation anymore. I just have to
[3:28:54] Speaker 1: take it off and make it up later. Like I
[3:28:57] Speaker 1: just I take the days off and then I work
[3:29:00] Speaker 1: down the road or before it. Right, it's not a
[3:29:02] Speaker 1: big deal. Hey, Whood says, welcome back, brother. I hope
[3:29:05] Speaker 1: you enjoyed the vacation. I really did, and I had
[3:29:08] Speaker 1: maybe twice twice as much fun. I thought originally I
[3:29:12] Speaker 1: was going to take a week off, then I got
[3:29:13] Speaker 1: two weeks. Phil says, rock hard for Doug so Cal Yes,
[3:29:18] Speaker 1: rock hard for Doug over in southern California. Nathan says,
[3:29:21] Speaker 1: welcome back, Justin. Let's cook praise Doug. Listen, we had
[3:29:24] Speaker 1: some pretzels tonight, didn't we? And tired of liars, says
[3:29:27] Speaker 1: DZ Justin flaming the coals of reason, cooking religious fantasies.
[3:29:31] Speaker 1: Yeah we did.
[3:29:33] Speaker 2: There was.
[3:29:33] Speaker 1: We did a little bit of cooking tonight. I think
[3:29:35] Speaker 1: we had a lot of fun. I would have if
[3:29:37] Speaker 1: I didn't already have debate plans. We could go longer.
[3:29:40] Speaker 1: Judas says, my roommate Declan was going through barbecue withdraw.
[3:29:45] Speaker 1: Hope you enjoyed vacation and your fire is ready to
[3:29:48] Speaker 1: burn hot. Well it is, Judas. I appreciate that. And
[3:29:51] Speaker 1: I haven't heard Declan as a name before. I did
[3:29:54] Speaker 1: know a Brocklan growing up, but not a Declan. Stephen says,
[3:30:01] Speaker 1: what are the funniest lines in the Bible? Or none?
[3:30:04] Speaker 1: I love in Jeremiah? Was it chapter six or chapter
[3:30:08] Speaker 1: eight And it's hard to tell if the prophet is
[3:30:10] Speaker 1: saying it or God, but it sounds like God is
[3:30:12] Speaker 1: saying it. He says, I am full of wrath, I
[3:30:16] Speaker 1: am weary of holding it in. He's like, Hey, I'm
[3:30:18] Speaker 1: fucking ready to burst at the seams of these goddamn kids.
[3:30:23] Speaker 1: He's so he's so angry. Jake Corling says, do you
[3:30:27] Speaker 1: know when camping and roughing it outdoors, stones make great
[3:30:32] Speaker 1: surfaces for cooking? Hell Doug for being stone that cooks
[3:30:35] Speaker 1: theis Actually I did know that you can cook over stone.
[3:30:39] Speaker 1: In fact, the ancients cooked most of their flatbread over stone.
[3:30:42] Speaker 1: But yes, you can heat up some stones and cook
[3:30:44] Speaker 1: on it. Like if you don't have if you didn't
[3:30:46] Speaker 1: bring pots and pan, use the stones that find a
[3:30:49] Speaker 1: good stone, stick it in the coals, let it heat up.
[3:30:51] Speaker 1: You can do some cooking on it. Just make sure
[3:30:52] Speaker 1: it's clean. Also, if you brought tinfoil, you can just
[3:30:56] Speaker 1: make stuff on tinfoil and throw it into the coles.
[3:30:58] Speaker 1: Just wrap it up, throw it on the cole's good
[3:31:01] Speaker 1: to go. Just check it every now and then roll
[3:31:03] Speaker 1: it a few times to make sure it doesn't burn.
[3:31:06] Speaker 1: I love camp fire food. Night man says, welcome back,
[3:31:09] Speaker 1: Master Chef Justin. I hope you enjoyed your vacation with
[3:31:11] Speaker 1: your son. Hey, I appreciate that night Man and I did.
[3:31:15] Speaker 1: We had an absolute blast and Selah tacks a bit,
[3:31:18] Speaker 1: says Alex o'kinnor. Just posted an interview called what Comes
[3:31:22] Speaker 1: Before the Big Bang? The latest evidence excellent and relevant
[3:31:25] Speaker 1: for these debates. I have to check it out. There
[3:31:28] Speaker 1: was a survey recently that doctor Blitz turned me on
[3:31:31] Speaker 1: to of like physicism and cosmologists about what they think
[3:31:36] Speaker 1: was before the Big Bang, and it seemed like the
[3:31:39] Speaker 1: majority of people don't believe there was nothing before the
[3:31:41] Speaker 1: Big Bang, and the Big Bang doesn't posit anything about that.
[3:31:46] Speaker 1: Trump failed, says came across a stream talking trash on
[3:31:49] Speaker 1: you called cross examination. I tagged you in a video
[3:31:52] Speaker 1: on talk on TikTok. Dude compared slavery to owning children. Yeah,
[3:31:57] Speaker 1: I'm sure it is. I don't know who cross examination is,
[3:31:59] Speaker 1: and I gotta be honest. I don't check my tags anymore.
[3:32:09] Speaker 1: I get tagged in so many YouTube and TikTok videos
[3:32:13] Speaker 1: I don't have time to respond to them, so I
[3:32:15] Speaker 1: just stopped checking them. I don't care, like unless somebody
[3:32:17] Speaker 1: makes an egregious video about me and like a hundred
[3:32:20] Speaker 1: people send it to me and they're like, oh my god,
[3:32:22] Speaker 1: you can't believe what this guy said about you. I
[3:32:24] Speaker 1: really don't care. Like there's a lot of people like
[3:32:28] Speaker 1: that are going to make videos about me, and like,
[3:32:30] Speaker 1: who cares. Ten people are going to see it, one
[3:32:32] Speaker 1: hundred people are going to see it. I don't really care.
[3:32:34] Speaker 1: Right if a big name said something like it's like
[3:32:40] Speaker 1: Frank Turk made a video about me, then I'd probably
[3:32:44] Speaker 1: make a response video. But I can't just responding to
[3:32:47] Speaker 1: I can't be responding to everyone that makes a video
[3:32:49] Speaker 1: about me. I'd spend all my time making response videos,
[3:32:51] Speaker 1: and I'd rather do the live debates. Biz says, finally
[3:32:56] Speaker 1: catching live love listening to your arguments and your calmness
[3:32:59] Speaker 1: is a hey. I appreciate that, and I try to
[3:33:02] Speaker 1: stay calm. That Alaska's got me a little hype. I'm
[3:33:05] Speaker 1: not sure why I think he was just this is
[3:33:08] Speaker 1: kind of an idiot, but anyways, we're having fun. Philla, Texas.
[3:33:13] Speaker 1: Doug told me that you needed a break, like the
[3:33:16] Speaker 1: rest of us, welcome back.
[3:33:17] Speaker 5: Well, I thank you.
[3:33:18] Speaker 1: I appreciate that, and yes, even I do need a break.
[3:33:21] Speaker 1: But now it break's over, we're gonna hit hard. Friends,
[3:33:25] Speaker 1: he says, Glad to see you back. I hear from
[3:33:27] Speaker 1: ex colleagues Matt is a bit of a bully. I
[3:33:30] Speaker 1: was hoping that had nothing to do with why you
[3:33:32] Speaker 1: were m Ia. No, no, no, no, he was very
[3:33:36] Speaker 1: nice to me. Matt didn't bully me at all. He
[3:33:39] Speaker 1: was nothing but kind to me. I thought he was
[3:33:41] Speaker 1: very nice. I get, like, if you're in Matt's position,
[3:33:43] Speaker 1: I get why, Like you've heard the same arguments four
[3:33:46] Speaker 1: million times. I get why you can be a little
[3:33:49] Speaker 1: bit short fused on people coming up and giving the
[3:33:53] Speaker 1: same bad argument you've heard forty thousand times. But I
[3:33:57] Speaker 1: do think it's important to recognize that every person, like,
[3:34:02] Speaker 1: even though you've been doing it for twenty years, most
[3:34:04] Speaker 1: of the people you're talking to might have only been
[3:34:07] Speaker 1: thinking about these things just recently, right, So at some
[3:34:10] Speaker 1: point you do have to recognize that, like it might
[3:34:13] Speaker 1: be old for you, but it might be new for them.
[3:34:16] Speaker 1: So that kind of keeps my head a little bit.
[3:34:20] Speaker 1: I think down in the in the space like everybody else,
[3:34:24] Speaker 1: Adam says, welcome back, my friend, Hope, you had a
[3:34:26] Speaker 1: great break. I did, Adam, thank you for the super
[3:34:29] Speaker 1: chat and so attacks again says getting a phone call
[3:34:32] Speaker 1: from someone you were thinking of is invisible for thousands
[3:34:36] Speaker 1: of for thousands every day because of the law of
[3:34:40] Speaker 1: large numbers. I don't hold on. I got to read
[3:34:42] Speaker 1: this again. Getting a phone call from someone you are
[3:34:45] Speaker 1: thinking of is inevitable. There we go, is inevitable for
[3:34:49] Speaker 1: thousands every day because of the law of large numbers.
[3:34:51] Speaker 1: You're right that there's one hundred percent. We know so
[3:34:54] Speaker 1: many people, and the ones that we're thinking about are
[3:34:57] Speaker 1: the ones that are close to us.
[3:34:59] Speaker 5: And just what.
[3:35:01] Speaker 1: The ones that are close to those are the ones
[3:35:02] Speaker 1: that are probably gonna call it coincidents has happen every day,
[3:35:08] Speaker 1: and Saint Brush's I learned that my ancestors roasted a
[3:35:10] Speaker 1: turkey last night Thursday of November. Confirmed that the New
[3:35:15] Speaker 1: World Gods are real. That's what it is. Actually, that's
[3:35:18] Speaker 1: what it did. I listen. He did bring up a
[3:35:20] Speaker 1: unique argument. I've never heard that one before. I think
[3:35:24] Speaker 1: that was our first caller. Hazel Nut says, Moses grabbed
[3:35:29] Speaker 1: the serpent by the tail to God. Yeah, I mean
[3:35:31] Speaker 1: basically he did. He had numbers but it showers forgets
[3:35:34] Speaker 1: that fifteen fourteen, so no numbers, not fifteen with the
[3:35:39] Speaker 1: twenty five? Fuck where what where was the bronze serpent?
[3:35:42] Speaker 1: Hold on, I always forget which chapter in numbers you
[3:35:46] Speaker 1: get the bronze serpent. Let me grab that it is
[3:35:50] Speaker 1: in in twenty one. Not even close. I was off
[3:35:57] Speaker 1: by a couple chapters. Yeah, but that I mean, you're right, Jay,
[3:36:01] Speaker 1: says a confession unto dog. The other day, I reckon
[3:36:04] Speaker 1: rescinded a like. Oh no, waited until there was six
[3:36:08] Speaker 1: hundred and sixty five likes, then re liked it to
[3:36:10] Speaker 1: be the six hundred and sixty six? Is my salvation intact?
[3:36:13] Speaker 1: Not only is it intact, you get extra salvation extra
[3:36:17] Speaker 1: so at taxes. Fundamentalists no fun, too much dam and
[3:36:21] Speaker 1: not enough mental Yeah, actually I agree, too much damnation,
[3:36:27] Speaker 1: not enough thinking. I think this is fund deser don't
[3:36:32] Speaker 1: have any fun. I don't even like dancing. I can
[3:36:35] Speaker 1: get behind the no dancing thing. That's about it. Godwin says,
[3:36:38] Speaker 1: hope you're enjoying your summer. Brother, glad you're back. I
[3:36:41] Speaker 1: am God when I appreciate that. And one bad weekend,
[3:36:46] Speaker 1: says stressed dopamine causes the brain to attach extra significance
[3:36:51] Speaker 1: to events. That's this guy in a nutshell. Yes. Yes,
[3:36:56] Speaker 1: when you're in a heightened emotional state, then first of all,
[3:37:00] Speaker 1: you're going to remember everything that you're doing, and also
[3:37:03] Speaker 1: you're going to be prone to attach more significance to
[3:37:06] Speaker 1: what's happening than really there. Marcus is glad to see
[3:37:10] Speaker 1: you back justin. I hope the vacation was great. I
[3:37:13] Speaker 1: wanted to be the first to welcome you back. With
[3:37:15] Speaker 1: you it's great. You are the first, and thank you.
[3:37:20] Speaker 1: Thank you, Marcus. I appreciate that. And Phil says, Zeus
[3:37:23] Speaker 1: is real read the iliad. I agree, hail Zeus. I mean,
[3:37:27] Speaker 1: where else would you get lightning from? Obviously? Donzel says,
[3:37:30] Speaker 1: the King returns. I trust Doug provided a badass vacation.
[3:37:34] Speaker 1: Pumped for the barbecue tonight. Well, thank you, Donzo. I
[3:37:38] Speaker 1: appreciate that. And unfortunately it was a short barbecue, but
[3:37:40] Speaker 1: we'll do more barbecue and on Sarah's channel here in
[3:37:42] Speaker 1: a minute, Mike says, I hope you had a good
[3:37:45] Speaker 1: dad time on your vacation.
[3:37:46] Speaker 5: I did.
[3:37:47] Speaker 1: Is it true? Is it true? Doug r rock peas
[3:37:52] Speaker 1: by draining his Johnson I don't know if that's the case.
[3:37:58] Speaker 1: Some rocks are just naturally MOI, but I don't know
[3:38:00] Speaker 1: if he drains just says yo, justin God makes natural
[3:38:05] Speaker 1: disasters to keep life interesting. Oh, I haven't that dude.
[3:38:10] Speaker 1: That's an old conversation. Dude was wild. I swear these
[3:38:13] Speaker 1: people are trolling. I forget the name of that guy.
[3:38:16] Speaker 1: We talked multiple times. That's an old clip. One of
[3:38:18] Speaker 1: the first clips I ever made on YouTube, actually, of
[3:38:20] Speaker 1: my TikTok conversations. Guy literally justified God doing natural disasters
[3:38:25] Speaker 1: because God needed to keep things interesting. They don't want
[3:38:28] Speaker 1: to get bored. Hooter, thank you for the ten that
[3:38:30] Speaker 1: I was superesays, have you ever pointed out that Genesis
[3:38:33] Speaker 1: one also says there was never nothing, that creation was
[3:38:37] Speaker 1: just shaping what already existed. The book refutes them, So
[3:38:40] Speaker 1: I don't bring that out much because it's a grammatical
[3:38:43] Speaker 1: argument that Christians aren't prepared for unless you know Hebrew grammar.
[3:38:46] Speaker 1: It's kind of a useless argument, Like you can go
[3:38:49] Speaker 1: through them and explain that, yes, a better sheet does
[3:38:53] Speaker 1: not have a definite article. It doesn't say in the
[3:38:56] Speaker 1: beginning it should be when when what? When God be
[3:38:59] Speaker 1: gained right when he began, who God, when God began
[3:39:03] Speaker 1: to create, that's the best way to translate that sentence.
[3:39:06] Speaker 1: The problem is that originally the Bible was not written
[3:39:11] Speaker 1: with vowel pointers, So in the original Paleo Hebrew, it
[3:39:15] Speaker 1: very well could have been a definite article that you
[3:39:18] Speaker 1: can't see, because a definite article would only display itself
[3:39:22] Speaker 1: in the form of a vowel pointer. Basically how you
[3:39:25] Speaker 1: pronounce the vowels right, So you could have pronounced it
[3:39:28] Speaker 1: in Palia Hebrew better a sheet. So I just don't
[3:39:31] Speaker 1: know if it's a great argument because the Bible wasn't
[3:39:34] Speaker 1: originally written with vowel pointers, it just happens to have
[3:39:37] Speaker 1: them in the form that we have today. Jimmy Jay says,
[3:39:42] Speaker 1: it's funny when Christians who don't understand time say they
[3:39:46] Speaker 1: know the secrets of the universe. Also, when someone with
[3:39:49] Speaker 1: glasses argues for a design, so dumb, oh, I tell
[3:39:52] Speaker 1: her forgot. I always forget about the glasses argument. But
[3:39:54] Speaker 1: the glasses argument is a fantastic argument against design. Spunter says,
[3:39:59] Speaker 1: so glad your back, hope you had fun. Well, thank you, Spencer,
[3:40:02] Speaker 1: I did have fun. I'm having fun being back as
[3:40:05] Speaker 1: well in Libra, thank you for the supertests.
[3:40:07] Speaker 3: Here's the only.
[3:40:08] Speaker 1: Version of science that fits with what he's describing with
[3:40:11] Speaker 1: God did it creation science? Pseudoscience nailed it. Yes, they
[3:40:17] Speaker 1: don't have science like the God created everything. Never relies
[3:40:21] Speaker 1: on science. It always relies on gaps. Where can I
[3:40:25] Speaker 1: find a gap in the science and then can I
[3:40:28] Speaker 1: put God in this gap? Clark says, how can someone
[3:40:32] Speaker 1: dodge this many questions? We see it every day. They
[3:40:38] Speaker 1: do mostly just dodging. I'm a truth seeker. As soon
[3:40:41] Speaker 1: as I'm trapped, Oh, we can switch to another topic.
[3:40:45] Speaker 1: Teach me this power that basically Actually, that's why I
[3:40:50] Speaker 1: got upset at the last guest. The motherfucker wouldn't answer
[3:40:53] Speaker 1: a question. Honestly, I had to ask them five hundred times.
[3:40:55] Speaker 1: It's crazy that people spend so much time dodging easy questions. Says,
[3:41:00] Speaker 1: what Christians don't understand time as we know it started
[3:41:04] Speaker 1: with the Big Bang, So what happened before the Big
[3:41:07] Speaker 1: Bang makes no sense. So that depends, I think, solar
[3:41:11] Speaker 1: on your conception of what you think time is. And
[3:41:13] Speaker 1: I've done a lot of digging on time, whether or
[3:41:16] Speaker 1: not time is just a property of the physical universe
[3:41:19] Speaker 1: or whether or not time is like a fundamental reality
[3:41:23] Speaker 1: of the universe, And I can't get an honest answer
[3:41:26] Speaker 1: from from the science world. They seem to be in
[3:41:29] Speaker 1: a little bit disagreeance. Like of the physical universe, time
[3:41:35] Speaker 1: seems to be an emergent property. However, when you start
[3:41:38] Speaker 1: talking about the quantum non physical existence, they still agree
[3:41:42] Speaker 1: that time exists, so how can it be a property
[3:41:45] Speaker 1: of it? Just there's so many questions. I'm still trying
[3:41:48] Speaker 1: to figure out what, like what the fuck is time? Right?
[3:41:51] Speaker 1: Is it a fundamental reality of the universe or is
[3:41:53] Speaker 1: it a property of the things that exist in the
[3:41:58] Speaker 1: material world, you know? Or is it just a web
[3:42:02] Speaker 1: of space time? There's some questions. I need somebody like
[3:42:06] Speaker 1: doctor Blitz to give me some more guidance on this.
[3:42:09] Speaker 1: Yoda says, when are you going to debate that g
[3:42:11] Speaker 1: man clown? I don't know. Actually I responded to his
[3:42:14] Speaker 1: debate request on modern day debates, and I maybe he
[3:42:20] Speaker 1: responded and I didn't see it yet, but I think
[3:42:23] Speaker 1: we were haggling on the slavery topic. Solar says, Christians
[3:42:30] Speaker 1: be like the kid on the playground that never wanted
[3:42:32] Speaker 1: to lose energy. Can't be created or destroyed. God is magic,
[3:42:36] Speaker 1: so he can do anything. Though, Yeah, isn't that crazy.
[3:42:39] Speaker 1: It's like they just specially plead the God into existence
[3:42:42] Speaker 1: and whatever gap they can find. JM. Thank you for
[3:42:45] Speaker 1: the two dollars, super things and handsome Cat. I agree
[3:42:48] Speaker 1: handsome Cat, so they glad you're back. Justin. I hear
[3:42:51] Speaker 1: this argument that the servant in Isaiah is sinless. There
[3:42:55] Speaker 1: must be Jesus' thoughts. Hope you grow in popularity. Hey,
[3:42:58] Speaker 1: I thank you for hand Cat. I've got a lot
[3:43:01] Speaker 1: of debate content on isaiahty three. I would definitely advise
[3:43:06] Speaker 1: checking it out. The servant in isaiahty three is typically
[3:43:10] Speaker 1: classified as the remnant of Israel or the righteous remnant,
[3:43:15] Speaker 1: not the wicked, although you could make an argument that
[3:43:18] Speaker 1: it's all of Israel because their sins have been forgiven.
[3:43:23] Speaker 1: So also, I don't think it reads the way that
[3:43:26] Speaker 1: you think it is that there's an individual servant and
[3:43:29] Speaker 1: that servant is completely sinless. That burbiage doesn't really exist
[3:43:34] Speaker 1: in isaiahty three. You have to read that into what's happening.
[3:43:38] Speaker 1: What it says is that he was carried away in
[3:43:41] Speaker 1: a form of misjustice. It doesn't say that he was
[3:43:44] Speaker 1: without sin, although Jesus wasn't sinless, So there's that argument
[3:43:49] Speaker 1: from Motion says when he celebrates child essay, I got it. Yes,
[3:43:53] Speaker 1: we got a lot of bullets. Bit tonight, child essay,
[3:43:57] Speaker 1: wife raping, baby killing, the hell of a night. Yoda says,
[3:44:01] Speaker 1: can you just remove the part I don't like? Wouldn't
[3:44:04] Speaker 1: they love that? Just forget the Old Testament, Let's only
[3:44:06] Speaker 1: talk about Jesus. Never mind the fact that Jesus is
[3:44:10] Speaker 1: the cause of the Old Testament origin or I'm sorry,
[3:44:13] Speaker 1: the original says eating pretzels while making pretzels, Doug is
[3:44:16] Speaker 1: definitely proud. I thought that would be fun. I got
[3:44:19] Speaker 1: one of those little teeny tiny ovens to put in
[3:44:21] Speaker 1: my office. Now I can make hot pretzels anytime I
[3:44:23] Speaker 1: want fans to Bark says, stop, he's cooked already. Nice
[3:44:26] Speaker 1: to have you back. Well, thank you, Santa Bark. I'm
[3:44:28] Speaker 1: having a blast. Thanks for supporting and Yoda come in again.
[3:44:32] Speaker 1: Thank you so much. As do Christian pretzels taste different
[3:44:35] Speaker 1: than Muslim pretzels or is it the same recipe for both?
[3:44:38] Speaker 1: Are Hindu pretzels spicier? Praise Douglas. I don't know if
[3:44:42] Speaker 1: Hindu pretzels are spicier, but they know spice way better.
[3:44:46] Speaker 1: White people don't know spice. I have found that the
[3:44:52] Speaker 1: same pretzels that Christians make the Islamic people. Islamic defenders
[3:44:56] Speaker 1: do the same thing, just different topics. They pretzel about
[3:45:02] Speaker 1: God's morality, They pretzel about God's misogyny. They pretzel about
[3:45:06] Speaker 1: Mohammad splitting the moon. They pretzel about the false statements
[3:45:10] Speaker 1: in the Koran, like embryology being wrong and whatnot. Ziam says,
[3:45:14] Speaker 1: Christians we have objective morals. Also, Christians, we have no
[3:45:17] Speaker 1: idea what they are. I mean, you nailed it. Is
[3:45:20] Speaker 1: whatever God says. Jordan princes, I love how Christians think
[3:45:24] Speaker 1: God wouldn't ever ask them to do something abhorrent, like
[3:45:26] Speaker 1: he does it all the time in the Bible. I know,
[3:45:28] Speaker 1: Jordan Jored doesn't literally, Yeah, I mean, you nailed it.
[3:45:32] Speaker 1: That's the point I make all the time. Don't tell
[3:45:34] Speaker 1: me God wouldn't ask you to do it. He does
[3:45:36] Speaker 1: that shit in the Bible all the time. Jared says,
[3:45:38] Speaker 1: don't know if you've seen but a repeat caller here
[3:45:42] Speaker 1: has deconstructed and now hangs out in the discord. You're
[3:45:45] Speaker 1: getting through to people, Hey, thanks Jared. I don't get
[3:45:49] Speaker 1: on the discord chat as much as I like to
[3:45:51] Speaker 1: because it moves so fast. I can't really stay in
[3:45:54] Speaker 1: the argument. And I'm just I'm always too busy to
[3:45:57] Speaker 1: really stay in it. But I have codicated to a
[3:46:00] Speaker 1: couple of people and discord in through email that have deconstructed,
[3:46:03] Speaker 1: So I appreciate that. Bad weekend says God, I missed this, Hey,
[3:46:07] Speaker 1: thank you, bad weekend, so did I. And Elle Yahn
[3:46:10] Speaker 1: Hubbard fantastic name says, if you can't stand the heat,
[3:46:13] Speaker 1: get out of Justin's kitchen. Well he did, eventually, he did. Eventually.
[3:46:19] Speaker 1: Shimshankle says, no color audio. I'm sorry. I switched my
[3:46:23] Speaker 1: audio set up a little bit because of what happened
[3:46:25] Speaker 1: with Ian, so that if somebody comes into my YouTube
[3:46:31] Speaker 1: guest box, their audio will be entirely isolated. I just
[3:46:36] Speaker 1: forgot that. When I toggle back and forth between TikTok
[3:46:39] Speaker 1: and video Ninja, I have to toggle the audio on
[3:46:43] Speaker 1: and off because I've got it, because I've got him isolated,
[3:46:46] Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I could un isolate them
[3:46:48] Speaker 1: like I used to, but then if I get a troll,
[3:46:51] Speaker 1: that really is tech savvy, they might be able to
[3:46:53] Speaker 1: We'll see, I might go back to the old method.
[3:46:55] Speaker 1: Chip says, ah, I've been missing this so much. Praise
[3:46:58] Speaker 1: Doug for the return of Justin. I hope you and
[3:47:00] Speaker 1: your son had great vacation. Rock Hard for Doug always well,
[3:47:03] Speaker 1: thank you, Chip, I appreciate that. And yes, yeah, we
[3:47:06] Speaker 1: had a great vacation and a VG Thank you for
[3:47:09] Speaker 1: the six sixty six hill Nero says, to recruit a
[3:47:12] Speaker 1: dodgeball team, I will only hire apologists and tell them
[3:47:15] Speaker 1: shots are yes, no questions. Undefeated world champions for decades
[3:47:20] Speaker 1: to come. Rock Card for Doug absolutely nailed it, nailed it. Hey,
[3:47:24] Speaker 1: thank you singer, So I am back, and Goldack says,
[3:47:27] Speaker 1: praise Doug. Been watching for almost a year now. That
[3:47:29] Speaker 1: crazy drunk blonde Lady Preacher live popped my cherry. Oh yes, well,
[3:47:34] Speaker 1: I always forget her name, but she was funny. Her
[3:47:38] Speaker 1: prediction came wrong, obviously, It's just me, says rock Hard
[3:47:42] Speaker 1: for Doug. Currently one hundred percent deconstructed. Hell yeah, stage
[3:47:45] Speaker 1: four cancer and living life to the fullest. Thanks for
[3:47:47] Speaker 1: your dream, sir, Well, I'm sorry that you're living with cancer,
[3:47:52] Speaker 1: but I'm happy that your living life to the fullest,
[3:47:55] Speaker 1: live the shit out of every day.
[3:47:57] Speaker 3: Just me.
[3:47:58] Speaker 1: Thank you for supporting, and please reach out to the
[3:48:00] Speaker 1: community if you need anything. Katie says, my neighbors made
[3:48:04] Speaker 1: me German pretzels, eating them while you cook.
[3:48:07] Speaker 5: Shit.
[3:48:07] Speaker 1: I don't even know what a German pretzel is. Now
[3:48:09] Speaker 1: I want one. Thank you for watching. Mayan says Our
[3:48:13] Speaker 1: Matthew twenty five thirty one through forty six and second
[3:48:15] Speaker 1: Peter three ten through twelve. Contradictory final judgment scenarios. Uh
[3:48:22] Speaker 1: not yet. I've always so. I've always read them as
[3:48:25] Speaker 1: complimentary scenarios. I don't know if they contradict. And if
[3:48:30] Speaker 1: you talk to a Christian about this, they'll say that
[3:48:32] Speaker 1: they don't contradict that like Matthew is living out details
[3:48:37] Speaker 1: that Peter's supplying, and if you read the Apocrypha, what
[3:48:42] Speaker 1: Peter's talking about shows up in the apocrypha. Though, if
[3:48:45] Speaker 1: you believe that the Apocrypha is scripture, then it doesn't contradict.
[3:48:50] Speaker 1: It's just missing information. That's how That's how I address it.
[3:48:54] Speaker 1: That's why it's not on my list of contradictions. That's
[3:48:56] Speaker 1: just my personal opinion. Master Machetier says he has Risen. Hell, yeah,
[3:49:00] Speaker 1: we're here. Mastermochee here, thank you for the super chat.
[3:49:03] Speaker 1: And virtual Billy says, the Old Testament doesn't count anymore.
[3:49:06] Speaker 1: Say the same Christians who just love invoking the Ten Commandments.
[3:49:10] Speaker 1: I know I'll never get over the fact that they'll
[3:49:12] Speaker 1: say that's an old Testament doesn't count, and then they
[3:49:14] Speaker 1: want to cling helplessly to the Ten Commandments. You can't
[3:49:18] Speaker 1: do it. Insertin name here says been missing you justin
[3:49:20] Speaker 1: glad you're back.
[3:49:21] Speaker 3: Man.
[3:49:21] Speaker 1: Well shit, I'm back and we're ready to cook. Thank
[3:49:25] Speaker 1: you for the super chat. Cameron, my friend, good to
[3:49:27] Speaker 1: see you, says welcome back, sir. I'm glad you were
[3:49:28] Speaker 1: able to spend some quality time with your son. Thank
[3:49:31] Speaker 1: you so much for all you do.
[3:49:32] Speaker 3: Well.
[3:49:32] Speaker 1: Thank you for supporting Cameron. I appreciate that. And our
[3:49:36] Speaker 1: friend Adelea is here. Adele, thank you so much for
[3:49:39] Speaker 1: being here. Friend. Thank you for the ten hour superchat.
[3:49:41] Speaker 1: Say's been here all night? Well, thank you. I've had
[3:49:44] Speaker 1: you cooking in my earbuds while I do yard work.
[3:49:47] Speaker 1: Would that be the work of Doug. I think it
[3:49:49] Speaker 1: is the work of Doug.
[3:49:51] Speaker 2: I did it.
[3:49:51] Speaker 1: I did move a lot of rocks. Good to see
[3:49:54] Speaker 1: you friend, well Adell, thank you so much for being
[3:49:56] Speaker 1: here listening and supporting, and yes you're doing Doug's work absolutely.
[3:50:01] Speaker 1: Laura says, thank you for all the lessons that helped
[3:50:04] Speaker 1: me debate Christians today. I made them sweat and everybody
[3:50:07] Speaker 1: enjoyed the TikTok Live. Thanks to you. Well, thank you, Laura.
[3:50:11] Speaker 1: I appreciate you letting me know and keep cooking. If
[3:50:15] Speaker 1: you don't have the cheat sheet, definitely get the cheat sheet.
[3:50:17] Speaker 1: Rock hard for Doug, my friend. Great to see you,
[3:50:19] Speaker 1: and thank you for gifting out five Deconstruction Zone gifted memberships.
[3:50:23] Speaker 1: And remember the members get access to the cheat sheet.
[3:50:29] Speaker 1: And John Klin says, is Jesus still coming? How many
[3:50:31] Speaker 1: socks does they have? Well, he only came once. He
[3:50:35] Speaker 1: only needs one sock. We're still waiting for the next one.
[3:50:40] Speaker 1: Captain how he says, good cooking the night the aroma
[3:50:42] Speaker 1: is pleasing. Well, thank you, I appreciate that. And Gabriel,
[3:50:45] Speaker 1: thank you for the ten dollars. Supertest says, welcome back
[3:50:47] Speaker 1: justin early. Miss watching your shows at night. Cheers from
[3:50:51] Speaker 1: sal Paulo Brazil. Well, cheers to you, Gabriel. I appreciate
[3:50:55] Speaker 1: the support. And Marty says, Hi, justin, I enjoy the channel.
[3:50:59] Speaker 1: Do you have any beef with paganism? Not really, they're
[3:51:04] Speaker 1: pretty peaceful. S Good to see your friend. Thank you
[3:51:08] Speaker 1: for the super genes. Suggest that I noticed you never
[3:51:10] Speaker 1: use was Jesus crucified before or after the passover? Are
[3:51:14] Speaker 1: their flaws in the argument? Keep cooking? There's not. In fact,
[3:51:17] Speaker 1: I have on my cheat sheet. I've got multiple timelines
[3:51:21] Speaker 1: demonstrating the contradiction between when he was actually crucified according
[3:51:27] Speaker 1: to John and the synoptics and how it is a contradiction.
[3:51:30] Speaker 1: The reason why I don't use it in a debate
[3:51:32] Speaker 1: is because it takes too much explaining for Christians, and
[3:51:37] Speaker 1: Christians haven't read the book, so it's a tedious thing
[3:51:41] Speaker 1: to have to walk through with the average Christian. They're
[3:51:45] Speaker 1: not prepared for it. Chip says, dropped your dropped our
[3:51:49] Speaker 1: youngest to college for freshman year yesterday, and it was
[3:51:52] Speaker 1: weird not having any kids at home this morning. Love
[3:51:55] Speaker 1: your kids. I agree, Chip, and thank you for sharing
[3:51:59] Speaker 1: with us, and thank you for in their super chest.
[3:52:00] Speaker 1: And I'm sorry that you're you're empty nesting right now.
[3:52:03] Speaker 1: It's it's tough, it really is tough, but you can
[3:52:06] Speaker 1: get through it. Doug will make you rock hard. Jmr.
[3:52:09] Speaker 1: Thank you for another supertestes If I hear spirit one
[3:52:11] Speaker 1: more time, I know he can't stop. Aaron, thank you
[3:52:15] Speaker 1: to our super chat friends. Is justin. Come on, don't
[3:52:18] Speaker 1: you know the words only mean what I want them
[3:52:21] Speaker 1: to mean. I know the guys words have no meaning
[3:52:25] Speaker 1: in this religion. That's what you need to know. Good
[3:52:28] Speaker 1: to see it, Aaron and Master Marchelle, you're come in
[3:52:30] Speaker 1: and again thank you for the super tests. Institute of
[3:52:33] Speaker 1: Metaphysical Research is one of those hardcore cults that thought
[3:52:39] Speaker 1: the world would end in nineteen ninety six. Obviously it
[3:52:42] Speaker 1: was a miscalculation. There are still working the math out.
[3:52:45] Speaker 1: I guess I know. It's it's like people who go
[3:52:49] Speaker 1: to these supposed schools. I'm never not shocked by the
[3:52:53] Speaker 1: crazy stuff that will come out of their mouth.
[3:52:55] Speaker 5: But I'll give them.
[3:52:56] Speaker 1: To his credit, he didn't recognize a lot of the
[3:52:58] Speaker 1: Bible verses that I brought. He just had really bad
[3:53:01] Speaker 1: arguments against them. But to his credit, he at least
[3:53:04] Speaker 1: had arguments prepared for them, which is more than most Christians.
[3:53:09] Speaker 1: Nobody on fire since all right, justin time for a
[3:53:11] Speaker 1: shirt with wheat being slashed and using blood. I know
[3:53:15] Speaker 1: the other thing about his arguments was that he kept
[3:53:18] Speaker 1: having to change the argument to make it work, Like
[3:53:22] Speaker 1: when one argument failed, he moved to another argument, which
[3:53:24] Speaker 1: lets you know that they're not strong arguments. Bro with
[3:53:27] Speaker 1: the fro great name says, wheat vampires are also a thing.
[3:53:31] Speaker 1: Just that I apologize. I didn't know about the wheat vampires.
[3:53:34] Speaker 1: Now I know that you need not just garlic around
[3:53:37] Speaker 1: your neck, but wheat. Vinnie, thank you for the super chab.
[3:53:40] Speaker 1: But he good to see, he says, welcome back. But
[3:53:42] Speaker 1: I never want to hear the word again again from
[3:53:45] Speaker 1: a doctor or anyone praised that. You know what shocks
[3:53:48] Speaker 1: me if Vinnie about the supposed doctor is not that
[3:53:50] Speaker 1: he got a fake doctorate, is that he uses doctor
[3:53:53] Speaker 1: in his title, knowing he got a fake doctorate from
[3:53:57] Speaker 1: a non school. It's crazy to me. Yes, most def's
[3:54:01] Speaker 1: step I believe you you are. Steph says thanks for
[3:54:03] Speaker 1: all the cooking. Chef, Well, hey, thank you for supporting,
[3:54:07] Speaker 1: and Vinnie come in again, says again. To be clear,
[3:54:09] Speaker 1: I don't want to hear the word again again. Thanks
[3:54:11] Speaker 1: for nothing, doctor. I know he was frustrating Vinnie and Texas,
[3:54:19] Speaker 1: my friend. Great to see you, he says, welcome back.
[3:54:20] Speaker 1: Justin the theists didn't get any saner while you're away.
[3:54:23] Speaker 1: I would not imagine they would. I don't think they
[3:54:27] Speaker 1: ever will either. Hey, good to see in Texas, and design,
[3:54:30] Speaker 1: thank you for being here. Good to see you again,
[3:54:32] Speaker 1: says second biggest crime in Deuteronomy is God's failure to
[3:54:35] Speaker 1: endorse for play. Oh. I agree, he really left out
[3:54:39] Speaker 1: some important shit and that's one of them. And SKK,
[3:54:43] Speaker 1: thank you for the one hundred ws or ten thousand w's.
[3:54:47] Speaker 1: I don't know what does means. Says that doctor is
[3:54:49] Speaker 1: not a real man. Doubling down knowing it's wrong is
[3:54:52] Speaker 1: a sign of lack of integrity, dignity, and honor. Qualities
[3:54:56] Speaker 1: define an adult. I agree that dude's not an adult
[3:54:59] Speaker 1: by any means. John Warnock, thank you for the twenty
[3:55:02] Speaker 1: dollars supertests as a philosopher is a blind man in
[3:55:05] Speaker 1: the dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there.
[3:55:08] Speaker 1: A theologian is the man who finds it. Oh. I
[3:55:11] Speaker 1: love that quote. I've heard it a few times. I
[3:55:14] Speaker 1: love it every time. It's a perfect illustration of the
[3:55:17] Speaker 1: state of affairs. Carlos, thank you so much for the
[3:55:20] Speaker 1: two hundred MX, big W, my friend this, thanks for
[3:55:25] Speaker 1: the cook justin. Gotta go rest well, Carlos, get some rest,
[3:55:30] Speaker 1: get healed up. We're thinking about you. Let us know
[3:55:33] Speaker 1: how you fare, all right, Let us know. Magig, my friend,
[3:55:36] Speaker 1: thank you for the ten dollars supertests. If God told
[3:55:38] Speaker 1: Noah what to bring on the arc and eating unclean
[3:55:40] Speaker 1: animals was forbidden and the snake was evil, why bring
[3:55:44] Speaker 1: them at all? Wouldn't God just say no, no bad animals.
[3:55:48] Speaker 1: Actually that's a fair point. Why bring any of the
[3:55:50] Speaker 1: unclean animals at all? Why not to have only clean animals?
[3:55:53] Speaker 1: It seems like he could fix a lot of problems
[3:55:54] Speaker 1: just by having only clean animals around. El Teine, thank
[3:55:59] Speaker 1: you for gifting. Had ten deconstructions of memberships, big W,
[3:56:03] Speaker 1: my friend, and Brent. Great to see this says down
[3:56:06] Speaker 1: payment towards a totally not fake PhD in doug alogy.
[3:56:10] Speaker 1: Hope you had an enjoyable VA, Kate, Well, thank you
[3:56:13] Speaker 1: Brent for the support, and thank you for the well wishes.
[3:56:16] Speaker 1: And yes you now have a PhD in dougology. You
[3:56:20] Speaker 1: are now doctor Brenton Jay Good to see a doctor
[3:56:24] Speaker 1: and b palegro Pellgrove says, how many resting periods do
[3:56:29] Speaker 1: you think the doctor calculated himself? Math can be so
[3:56:33] Speaker 1: hard sometimes I don't think he's doing a lot of calculations. Actually,
[3:56:38] Speaker 1: and Jesus tapped in some fucking Christis. Thank you for
[3:56:41] Speaker 1: the donation. I definitely thank you, definitely thank you, and
[3:56:44] Speaker 1: thank you, and minute man, thank you for the to know.
[3:56:47] Speaker 1: Supertest says, Hey, Krishna's birthday is to day.
[3:56:50] Speaker 3: I didn't know that.
[3:56:50] Speaker 1: Best part is the one hundred and eight item beffaet
[3:56:54] Speaker 1: midnight one hundred and eight item. Yeah, I'm in the
[3:56:58] Speaker 1: I'm going to convert one day year to the religion.
[3:57:00] Speaker 1: The rest is bullshit. Praise Doug and fuck the patriarchy.
[3:57:03] Speaker 1: Hell yeah, fuck the patriarchy. And we need to have
[3:57:06] Speaker 1: a talk about Krishna. Buffays I need more information. Hippier says,
[3:57:12] Speaker 1: recently found your channel. We've never been religious. We couldn't
[3:57:16] Speaker 1: figure out why Iso Jesus. I'm sorry who Iso Jesus was.
[3:57:21] Speaker 1: Thought maybe he was a spinoff character. Well, Isa Jesus
[3:57:24] Speaker 1: is one of the best play on words about how
[3:57:26] Speaker 1: they read Jesus into the book it's the Greek word
[3:57:29] Speaker 1: Isa Jesus for reading something into the text. Thank you
[3:57:34] Speaker 1: for this boart. And last one from Lieber to the skeptics, says,
[3:57:36] Speaker 1: I have glasses and epilepsy. Awesome argument against design. Nobody
[3:57:41] Speaker 1: has been able to give adequate explanations ever, and they
[3:57:44] Speaker 1: never will because there isn't adequate explanations. It just doesn't happen.
[3:57:49] Speaker 1: All right, friends, thank you so so much for being here.
[3:57:52] Speaker 1: Thank you so so much for all the kindness and
[3:57:54] Speaker 1: support and all the super chats and regular chant and
[3:58:01] Speaker 1: everything in between. We're gonna go raid. Is Sarah elivea
[3:58:05] Speaker 1: on TikTok? Let me see if she's live, because we're
[3:58:07] Speaker 1: gonna go raid in just a minute. Sarah, Oh, I
[3:58:10] Speaker 1: think Crystal got an announcement. Let me bring Cristeal in here. Cristal,
[3:58:17] Speaker 1: welcome in.
[3:58:19] Speaker 11: Hey, do you see Creed in the box? Is Creed
[3:58:23] Speaker 11: waiting to get up?
[3:58:24] Speaker 1: No?
[3:58:25] Speaker 11: No, no, man, okay, I've been trying to get a
[3:58:30] Speaker 11: hold of you.
[3:58:31] Speaker 1: Creed.
[3:58:31] Speaker 11: I hate to do this for you, but they told
[3:58:33] Speaker 11: me you'd be in the box, and I worked really
[3:58:35] Speaker 11: hard to do this for you. But Creed, if you
[3:58:39] Speaker 11: can hear this request up real quick. If not, I'm
[3:58:41] Speaker 11: going to tell him, but Creed has deconstructed. He he's
[3:58:47] Speaker 11: the one, and he wanted to come up and tell
[3:58:51] Speaker 11: you and thank you. But he is a part of
[3:58:53] Speaker 11: the deconstruction junction. And if you are listening right now,
[3:58:57] Speaker 11: you want to be a part of the deconstruction junction.
[3:58:59] Speaker 11: Discord link is in my bio. And yeah, I know
[3:59:03] Speaker 11: that a lot of you used to get irritated listening
[3:59:06] Speaker 11: to Creed. But the last time he was on I
[3:59:09] Speaker 11: even said I think he's deconstructing, and I could hear
[3:59:13] Speaker 11: the resolution and his voice towards the end, you know. Yeah,
[3:59:19] Speaker 11: but he's a part of the deconstruction junction. Big W
[3:59:22] Speaker 11: in the chat for Creed, everybody, and nice cooking Jess.
[3:59:26] Speaker 11: So we'll see you over at Saras.
[3:59:27] Speaker 1: Okay, thanks Crystal, Yes, big W for our friend Creed.
[3:59:32] Speaker 1: And with that, guys, Sarah's going to be live here
[3:59:34] Speaker 1: in just a minute. I got to end this live
[3:59:36] Speaker 1: stream and get over on Sarah's live stream. Sarah's live
[3:59:40] Speaker 1: stream is going to be at this I'll show you.
[3:59:44] Speaker 1: If you're on TikTok, you should already know it's at
[3:59:47] Speaker 1: Leaving Faith. I'm gonna put it on the screen for
[3:59:50] Speaker 1: those who might not know. Just so we're all on
[3:59:56] Speaker 1: the same page here. We're going to be doing more
[3:59:59] Speaker 1: debates on Sarah's channel. You're in just a minute or two,
[4:00:05] Speaker 1: so go over to this channel, Leaving Faith. It's at
[4:00:09] Speaker 1: Leaving Faith. She's gonna be starting up her live stream
[4:00:13] Speaker 1: in just a moment. We're going to be doing some
[4:00:14] Speaker 1: more debates. I love you all, and we'll see you tomorrow. Tomorrow,
[4:00:19] Speaker 1: we've got more fun live streaming

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