# 2025-07-17 LIVE DEBATE \[God is Imaginary\]

An episode of [Deconstruction Zone](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1837730286), 28 Sep 2025, 4 h 03 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/67798404/2025_07_17_live_debate_god_is_imaginary.mp3

Live debating every theist on the planet. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Get Member Perks: https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone/join https://patreon.com/Deconstruction_Zone --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUPPORT THE STREAM: https://venmo.com/u/JHCOFFEEFUND https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/JHCOFFEEFUND https://cash.app/$JHCOFFEEFUND --------------------------------------------------------------------- SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS: https://www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction.zone https://www.youtube.com/@Deconstruction_Zone https://www.youtube.com/@DZDebates https://www.twitch.tv/deconstructionzone_ https://www.instagram.com/deconstruction_zone/ https://clapperapp.com/Justin_DZ https://x.com/Justin_DZ_ https://discord.com/invite/WmeAmrhkxZ https://linktr.ee/justin_____ Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/deconstruction-zone--6451535/support.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: All right, welcome friends. I think all the streams are
[0:05] Speaker 1: open and working now. Welcome in, my friends. Great to
[0:09] Speaker 1: see everybody. I think TikTok is still loading. We should
[0:14] Speaker 1: have some results soon. Ken, welcome in, friend, Great to
[0:17] Speaker 1: see you. Let me make sure the YouTube streams look
[0:21] Speaker 1: to be good. Let me make sure yep wi fi
[0:25] Speaker 1: is turned off. Good to go there, All right, everything
[0:29] Speaker 1: is ready to rock and roll and shit. We already
[0:31] Speaker 1: got a guest, and we already got a super chat
[0:33] Speaker 1: for everyone piling in. If you are on TikTok, you
[0:37] Speaker 1: know how to join. If in fact, you are on
[0:40] Speaker 1: YouTube or Facebook or anything else, there's a link on
[0:43] Speaker 1: the screen TinyURL dot com forward slash dz guest and
[0:47] Speaker 1: you can click the link in the description if you
[0:49] Speaker 1: don't want to type it in so you don't have to.
[0:52] Speaker 1: You don't have to manually type it. You can just
[0:55] Speaker 1: click on it. So, welcome in, friend to see j
[0:58] Speaker 1: Steele has joined us as well. We've got literally Jesus
[1:01] Speaker 1: and Meg is already in the chat. Great to see everyone,
[1:05] Speaker 1: and we've got uh shit, are two guests. Well, let
[1:10] Speaker 1: me grab our super chat and then we'll get right
[1:12] Speaker 1: into talking to the guests. Our friend Travis send in
[1:17] Speaker 1: a L L travisour super chat. Thank your friend, says, Hey, Justin,
[1:23] Speaker 1: I suggested to my wife I was going to live
[1:25] Speaker 1: by yesterday's caller Al. Yeah, Al for yesterday it was
[1:28] Speaker 1: wild from Al's worldview in regards to women. Did not
[1:32] Speaker 1: go well. Doctor says vision should return to my right
[1:35] Speaker 1: eye soon. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to hear that you
[1:42] Speaker 1: that you attempted that that's not going to end well,
[1:46] Speaker 1: but hoping the best for you. Thank goodness she didn't
[1:50] Speaker 1: dug you in the eyeball, because that's what probably Al
[1:53] Speaker 1: had coming to him. And we've got another super chat
[1:57] Speaker 1: already in from Master Machetier. Good to see see you,
[2:00] Speaker 1: my friend. Thank you for the super chat, says I
[2:01] Speaker 1: love your streams. You act with such a huge gray
[2:05] Speaker 1: fuck never gonna live it down. Huge grace is the
[2:08] Speaker 1: next garbageae man, I can already see it. Nothing I
[2:11] Speaker 1: can do about it. Well, thank you, Master miched Here.
[2:14] Speaker 1: I do appreciate that, friend. And Robert says rock bless God,
[2:18] Speaker 1: he's going to need it today. Yeah, I suppose so
[2:23] Speaker 1: the god. They got this book for sure. And last
[2:26] Speaker 1: one from our friend Alex. Alex says question why the
[2:29] Speaker 1: new King James and not the King James. Well, because
[2:32] Speaker 1: the words in the King James are completely outdated. They're
[2:34] Speaker 1: using a lot of old manuscripts that we know now
[2:38] Speaker 1: have been corrected and amended or need to be corrected
[2:40] Speaker 1: and amended. So we have a better base of manuscripts,
[2:43] Speaker 1: and we just know more about the languages today that
[2:47] Speaker 1: they're being translated from than they knew in sixteen eleven.
[2:50] Speaker 1: The King James was just an update of the Bishop's Bible.
[2:53] Speaker 1: It wasn't special, it wasn't unique, It didn't do anything groundbreaking,
[2:57] Speaker 1: and it was fine for sixteen eleven. It's meaningless in
[3:01] Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. Doesn't do a damn thing for us.
[3:04] Speaker 1: All Right, we'll get our first guest in here. It
[3:10] Speaker 1: looks like it's gonna be high. Maybe if they if
[3:15] Speaker 1: they can connect, we'll give them a second to connect.
[3:18] Speaker 1: They did not connect. We'll try again. We'll try the
[3:22] Speaker 1: next one. Bill Castle, thank you for the super cheffers.
[3:26] Speaker 1: Why am I kicked out of the Crack and Crew?
[3:28] Speaker 1: Has there been a price change? There has not? You
[3:32] Speaker 1: and I don't. I don't kick anyone out of the
[3:34] Speaker 1: Crack and Crew. Friend, if you're no longer in the
[3:37] Speaker 1: Crack and Crew, it's because you probably didn't set up
[3:40] Speaker 1: reoccurring membership. I think you can choose like a one
[3:44] Speaker 1: two month, three month, four month membership, and you probably
[3:48] Speaker 1: just chose one that ran out. So that's most likely
[3:52] Speaker 1: the case. I would check in do it. You might
[3:53] Speaker 1: have to resign up, but we don't, like, we don't
[3:56] Speaker 1: kick anyone out of the Crack and Crew, that's for sure.
[4:00] Speaker 1: But thanks for being a member. We're going to get
[4:03] Speaker 1: Is it a mov? Oh Arnav the R in the
[4:08] Speaker 1: N combined into an M when the text is small Arnov,
[4:11] Speaker 1: welcome in. Hi are nov? Are you at least eighteen?
[4:15] Speaker 1: And are you a believer?
[4:18] Speaker 2: Yes, sir?
[4:19] Speaker 1: And what do you believe in?
[4:20] Speaker 3: What?
[4:20] Speaker 1: God?
[4:22] Speaker 3: The God of Christianity?
[4:23] Speaker 1: Cool? What'd be the most convincing evidence or argument for
[4:26] Speaker 1: the Christian God being real?
[4:29] Speaker 4: When you say evidence, like, what is your definition of that? Evidence?
[4:35] Speaker 1: Evidence is anything that would move the needle, like whether
[4:39] Speaker 1: it's good or bad evidence?
[4:41] Speaker 4: Okay, all right, so anything will move the needle, as
[4:44] Speaker 4: in something that can't slightly appeal to you, right?
[4:50] Speaker 1: Yeah? So for example, like we we have theories, right,
[4:54] Speaker 1: and some of our theories or explanations for how the
[4:57] Speaker 1: world works are supported by a lot of evidence, and
[5:00] Speaker 1: some of them are supported by we'll say a little
[5:03] Speaker 1: bit of evidence, but evidence is still evidence, Like if
[5:06] Speaker 1: it moves the needle at all, I would consider it evidence.
[5:09] Speaker 3: Okay.
[5:10] Speaker 4: So one of the first arguments I would propose, or
[5:13] Speaker 4: I mean, I guess form of that evidence, and I
[5:17] Speaker 4: would be that the order and design of the universe.
[5:20] Speaker 4: I don't think that that's something that complex and beautiful
[5:27] Speaker 4: and unique can come about from material phenomenon or just nowhere,
[5:32] Speaker 4: if that makes sense without some kind of intelligent mind
[5:35] Speaker 4: behind it.
[5:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, So I would have kind of two complaints with
[5:39] Speaker 1: this particular argument, which is that the amount of organization
[5:43] Speaker 1: in the universe appears to be next to nothing compared
[5:47] Speaker 1: to the size of the universe. The majority of the
[5:49] Speaker 1: universe is nothing but complete chaos. In fact, our entire
[5:54] Speaker 1: galaxy will eventually, you know, self destruct. You know, the
[5:58] Speaker 1: Sun's gonna you know, expand and eventually burn up the
[6:03] Speaker 1: entire Earth, and then the good possibility our whole galaxy
[6:06] Speaker 1: will collide with the Andromeda galaxy in a couple of
[6:08] Speaker 1: billion years. So I don't know if there's that much
[6:12] Speaker 1: order out there. It just seems like there's order in
[6:15] Speaker 1: our little pocket, and only for now.
[6:19] Speaker 4: Okay, So that being said, sorry, are you done well?
[6:23] Speaker 1: I mean that was point number one. I would say
[6:26] Speaker 1: point number two is if you drill down on our
[6:29] Speaker 1: little pocket, I think what what I tend to find
[6:32] Speaker 1: is something that's not really parsimonious with thinking that it
[6:37] Speaker 1: was created, because like, the planet we live on is
[6:41] Speaker 1: full of stuff that is like unaliving the inhabitants. You know,
[6:46] Speaker 1: ninety seven percent of the water on the planet is
[6:49] Speaker 1: poisonous to drink. This is not something I would expect
[6:51] Speaker 1: if like an all knowing being created this particular habitat
[6:56] Speaker 1: for us to live in.
[6:58] Speaker 4: Okay, So the first rebuttal, I guess I would have
[7:02] Speaker 4: for the first argument that you propose, which is essentially
[7:05] Speaker 4: that there does seem to be a little bit of Well,
[7:09] Speaker 4: you just basically said that our universe is very chaotic,
[7:12] Speaker 4: and that in size compared.
[7:14] Speaker 3: To our pocket, it outside of our pocket, it can
[7:18] Speaker 3: be very chaotic.
[7:19] Speaker 4: And I mean I can kind of agree with you there, right,
[7:21] Speaker 4: there's a lot of random stuff going on in the
[7:23] Speaker 4: universe all the time that's just like kind of hard
[7:26] Speaker 4: to grasp. But that kind of raises the question of
[7:29] Speaker 4: if our universe is so chaotic and it doesn't have
[7:31] Speaker 4: order or anything of that nature to it, why is
[7:33] Speaker 4: it that modern day scientists struggles so much to understand
[7:36] Speaker 4: various aspects of it consistently.
[7:38] Speaker 5: Right, I may not understand your question, understand what so
[7:43] Speaker 5: when you originally?
[7:45] Speaker 4: I mean, there's just a lot of aspects of our
[7:47] Speaker 4: universe that we don't fully yet understand or have knowledge of. Right,
[7:51] Speaker 4: We're constantly trying to figure out answers and solutions to it, like,
[7:54] Speaker 4: for example, with the universe. Right, majority of scientists or
[7:58] Speaker 4: I don't know if they would be referred to as astrophysicists,
[8:01] Speaker 4: but majority of them described to the belief that the
[8:03] Speaker 4: universe had a beginning. Not necessarily I mean whether or
[8:08] Speaker 4: not that he was created by God. Okay, that's up
[8:10] Speaker 4: to that specific person. But majority of them do believe
[8:13] Speaker 4: the universe had a beginning, and that in and out
[8:15] Speaker 4: of it.
[8:16] Speaker 1: What do you think? What do you think it means
[8:18] Speaker 1: by beginning? What do you think when they say the
[8:19] Speaker 1: universe has a beginning? What do you think they mean?
[8:22] Speaker 4: So there was a point in which the universe had
[8:25] Speaker 4: not existed as we know it to be today.
[8:27] Speaker 1: That's not what physicists believe.
[8:30] Speaker 3: What did they believe?
[8:31] Speaker 1: They don't make claims about what was prior to the
[8:33] Speaker 1: Big Bang. In fact, there was a survey that was
[8:35] Speaker 1: recently done and the majority of the people in the
[8:38] Speaker 1: survey stated that the Big Bang doesn't make any claims
[8:41] Speaker 1: about what was in existence prior to the Big Bang,
[8:44] Speaker 1: And all the physicists and cosmologists that I've talked to
[8:48] Speaker 1: agree with that sentiment that, yeah, I mean, the idea
[8:51] Speaker 1: that there was literally nothing prior to the Big Bang
[8:54] Speaker 1: isn't really supported by any data. I mean, unless you
[8:58] Speaker 1: think there's evidence of it. What evidence that there was nothing?
[9:02] Speaker 4: So what is okay? So I want you to explain
[9:04] Speaker 4: to me what the Big Bang theory is. I have
[9:05] Speaker 4: a understanding of it, but I want you to explain
[9:08] Speaker 4: to me what it is.
[9:09] Speaker 1: Because, yeah, so the matter of space and time and
[9:12] Speaker 1: you know, all the fundamental particles in the universe were
[9:15] Speaker 1: once in a much smaller condensed state. And then there's
[9:19] Speaker 1: a couple of theories about why it began to expand
[9:21] Speaker 1: some people say dark energy. There's a new theory which
[9:25] Speaker 1: I actually like better, which is that it's a reaction
[9:29] Speaker 1: based on black hole bounce. You can read about black
[9:32] Speaker 1: hole bounce. It's a pretty well observed phenomenon that caused
[9:37] Speaker 1: everything in the black hole to go. But anyways, so
[9:42] Speaker 1: there's another theory that there was just a quantum field,
[9:46] Speaker 1: and quantum fields can give rise to material. There's quite
[9:49] Speaker 1: a few theories about what was prior to the Big Bang. Obviously,
[9:52] Speaker 1: I don't know if we have the tools to investigate that,
[9:57] Speaker 1: but what I do know is that I don't see
[10:00] Speaker 1: any evidence to believe that there was once nothing.
[10:03] Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, so I'm how put this, I'm not necessarily
[10:06] Speaker 4: saying when I was talking about the belief of majority
[10:13] Speaker 4: of you know, scientists, it's essentially that art And this
[10:16] Speaker 4: is why I said this in this specific way, that
[10:18] Speaker 4: our universe as we know today has not always existed.
[10:21] Speaker 4: We do know that it hasn't always been the way
[10:24] Speaker 4: that it is now. There was a time, right, I'm
[10:26] Speaker 4: pretty sure the entire theme of the Big Bang theory
[10:30] Speaker 4: was to essentially state that the universe, right, the time
[10:33] Speaker 4: space continuum that we exist on that came into exist
[10:36] Speaker 4: as with.
[10:36] Speaker 3: The Big Bang.
[10:37] Speaker 1: Well, the Big Bang is explaining how we got from
[10:42] Speaker 1: the condensed universe. Some people used to call it a singularity.
[10:45] Speaker 1: That's not really a great way to refer to it now.
[10:48] Speaker 1: But it's an explanation for how things got to where
[10:50] Speaker 1: they're at right now. The Big Bang isn't an explanation
[10:53] Speaker 1: for what was prior to the Big Bang.
[10:56] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[10:57] Speaker 4: No, So I feel like the Big Bang, though, I mean,
[10:59] Speaker 4: if we can hinge on this, I feel like the
[11:01] Speaker 4: Big Bank kind of.
[11:03] Speaker 3: And also you kind of said you said it yourself.
[11:05] Speaker 4: You said, a majority of scientists don't even subscribe to
[11:07] Speaker 4: the beliefs that there was something before the Big Bang,
[11:09] Speaker 4: But not that you're like kind of telling you are positive.
[11:12] Speaker 3: That's okay, never mind.
[11:14] Speaker 1: Sorry, What it said is the majority of cosmologists don't
[11:18] Speaker 1: have they're not laying a claim on what was prior
[11:22] Speaker 1: to the Big Bang. But yeah, do they believe that
[11:25] Speaker 1: there was nothing? No, they don't believe there was nothing
[11:27] Speaker 1: prior to the Big Bank.
[11:28] Speaker 4: Okay, sorry, I know why you said that, because okay,
[11:30] Speaker 4: so you've said that because I said, though scientists agree
[11:34] Speaker 4: that the universe that we know it as today has
[11:37] Speaker 4: not always existed as or not that it had a beginning.
[11:42] Speaker 4: And after that point, I also said that though I
[11:44] Speaker 4: don't know whether or not they believe that's a God,
[11:46] Speaker 4: that God is the reason behind that, or there's something else.
[11:48] Speaker 3: Is that why you said that?
[11:50] Speaker 1: What I'm saying is that because I think we need
[11:52] Speaker 1: to differentiate when we say the universe as we have,
[11:54] Speaker 1: but today we're referring to the material universe that we
[11:56] Speaker 1: can actually observe. Yes, and that did originate or not originate,
[12:01] Speaker 1: but it did. We can trace it back to the
[12:03] Speaker 1: Big Bang now. But that's just saying the stuff that
[12:07] Speaker 1: we know is here and the way that it's arranged,
[12:09] Speaker 1: we can trace it all the way back to this point.
[12:12] Speaker 1: It's not a claim about what was prior to that point.
[12:18] Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean the thing is, nobody really knows
[12:21] Speaker 4: what was prior to that point. I do believe there's
[12:23] Speaker 4: a lot of evidence though to suggest. I just find
[12:26] Speaker 4: it to be more reasonable that it would be an
[12:30] Speaker 4: intelligent being, you know, or all honestly the God of
[12:34] Speaker 4: Christianity that put that into action, as opposed to it
[12:38] Speaker 4: literally just being nothing or per se material phenomenon. I
[12:42] Speaker 4: don't find those things to be very reasonable to me,
[12:45] Speaker 4: and I do believe are.
[12:46] Speaker 1: If the universe, if there's always been something right, there's
[12:50] Speaker 1: not like this state of nothingness that needs to give
[12:53] Speaker 1: rise to something. I guess I don't understand what the
[12:57] Speaker 1: god is solving. What problem is he solving?
[13:00] Speaker 4: Okay wait, sorry, So you said there's always been something.
[13:03] Speaker 1: That's why I'm saying, Yeah, so.
[13:06] Speaker 4: You believe there's always been something like an eternal universe theory? Yeah,
[13:12] Speaker 4: what evidence do you have to support that matter and
[13:15] Speaker 4: energy can't be created or destroyed? And we have matter
[13:18] Speaker 4: and energy, which leads me to believe that it's always existed.
[13:21] Speaker 4: I mean it's pretty simple. Matter energy can't be destroyed.
[13:26] Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean that is I'll put this though
[13:34] Speaker 4: if okay, So okay, yeah, I mean I guess. So basically,
[13:38] Speaker 4: long story short, if matter energy cannot be destroyed, then
[13:41] Speaker 4: it has to have always existed, which makes sense.
[13:44] Speaker 1: It can even be created as far as we're aware.
[13:49] Speaker 1: I mean, it's possible. It changes forms, like you can
[13:51] Speaker 1: go from a quantum field into material and vice versa.
[13:55] Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's.
[13:57] Speaker 1: Still there, right, It's still something right.
[14:00] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[14:01] Speaker 4: So my question for you is like, okay, so I'm like, obviously,
[14:11] Speaker 4: at the end of the day, you have your beliefs.
[14:12] Speaker 4: I have my beliefs. The conversation we're having here isn't
[14:15] Speaker 4: necessarily an attempt to, like I guess say, it's more
[14:18] Speaker 4: so just an attempt to give you food for thoughts
[14:20] Speaker 4: so that you could potentially contemplate changing your stance. But
[14:24] Speaker 4: at the end of the day, I'm like, would you
[14:26] Speaker 4: even be would you even be okay with that? Is
[14:29] Speaker 4: that's something you even want to do? Because from the
[14:32] Speaker 4: my understanding, the stands point you subscribe to you right
[14:34] Speaker 4: now is going is one that would be perfectly fine
[14:37] Speaker 4: with you. Like, there aren't really any I don't see
[14:42] Speaker 4: if you don't feel I guess like some kind of
[14:45] Speaker 4: moral eight initiative to change. I don't see any reason
[14:49] Speaker 4: why you would change, if that makes sense.
[14:52] Speaker 1: I mean, I just want to believe whatever's true. Right,
[14:54] Speaker 1: So I used to believe in God, and now I
[14:56] Speaker 1: don't believe in God because I don't think the evidence
[14:58] Speaker 1: points in that direction. If there was evidence for a God,
[15:01] Speaker 1: I would believe in a God. One thing I do know, however,
[15:04] Speaker 1: is the Bible. God's not real, that's for sure.
[15:09] Speaker 4: Okay, how can you what evidence do you have to
[15:12] Speaker 4: support that stance?
[15:13] Speaker 1: Because I don't think contradictions exist, and I think the
[15:16] Speaker 1: Bible God is a contradiction, and I think the book
[15:19] Speaker 1: that is purporting to tell about the God is full
[15:21] Speaker 1: of contradictions. And it's also true that Jesus is a
[15:25] Speaker 1: liar and a fraud that fulfilled zero Messianic prophecies. So
[15:28] Speaker 1: it might be that there is some kind of a God.
[15:30] Speaker 1: It's certainly not the Bible God though. I mean, and
[15:34] Speaker 1: everything that I just told you, I'm sure you think
[15:36] Speaker 1: is just shock and all, but I can defend every
[15:38] Speaker 1: single thing I just said.
[15:40] Speaker 4: I mean, well, I've talked to a decent amount of
[15:43] Speaker 4: people that say the same thing you say, so, I mean,
[15:46] Speaker 4: majority of my time that my experience is dealing with
[15:48] Speaker 4: these things is usually just how they want, misinterpretations of things,
[15:53] Speaker 4: or just people subscribing to their own beliefs over what
[15:57] Speaker 4: other people think. I mean, how do not put this mean?
[16:00] Speaker 4: You can be the most informed people at the end
[16:02] Speaker 4: of the day, but it really just comes down to
[16:03] Speaker 4: who is the best arguer, if that makes sense, because
[16:06] Speaker 4: I'm not going to be able to convince you if
[16:08] Speaker 4: I'm not better at arguing than you unless you know
[16:10] Speaker 4: there's something within you that convinces you. So if you're
[16:14] Speaker 4: okay with it, I'd be down to jump into the
[16:17] Speaker 4: stuff you were saying, and you know you can go
[16:19] Speaker 4: through some of it.
[16:20] Speaker 1: Let's dive in. You want to start out easy. Do
[16:22] Speaker 1: you believe the Bible is in errant inherent?
[16:26] Speaker 2: No?
[16:26] Speaker 3: It always an errand in errand.
[16:31] Speaker 1: An errand meaning without error. What would you describe as
[16:37] Speaker 1: error anything that's not factually true?
[16:43] Speaker 3: I mean my belief. No.
[16:46] Speaker 1: Do you think that the Bible has contradictions?
[16:49] Speaker 3: I don't think so.
[16:50] Speaker 1: If the Bible did have errors and contradictions, what would
[16:53] Speaker 1: it mean.
[16:58] Speaker 4: That whatever that's error or contradiction is is just that
[17:03] Speaker 4: error and contradiction.
[17:06] Speaker 1: Okay, so if the Bible is not completely free of errors,
[17:09] Speaker 1: then it's not a big guilt to you.
[17:13] Speaker 3: Well, the thing is, I believe that how do I
[17:17] Speaker 3: put this?
[17:18] Speaker 4: I really would just have to more so look at
[17:20] Speaker 4: this specific error or contradiction in question, right, Because let's say,
[17:25] Speaker 4: if it's an error or contradiction about the divinity of
[17:29] Speaker 4: Jesus or whether or not he actually existed, then that's
[17:31] Speaker 4: a big issue. But if it's an error contradiction about
[17:33] Speaker 4: per se, what time it was in this specific passage,
[17:39] Speaker 4: and you know, that's not that big of a deal.
[17:41] Speaker 1: What if it's a theological contradiction about, say, like the
[17:45] Speaker 1: position of the law that God gave to Moses.
[17:49] Speaker 4: Well, the thing is in that, I mean, we could
[17:51] Speaker 4: dive into that, but in that specific context, there are
[17:54] Speaker 4: multiple theological interpretations of that.
[17:58] Speaker 1: I'm not asking about an interpretation. I'm just saying about
[18:00] Speaker 1: a straight up contradiction. Like if the Bible says two
[18:03] Speaker 1: completely contradictory statements about the Law of Moses, would that
[18:07] Speaker 1: be a problem?
[18:11] Speaker 3: I think, Well, I mean, this is the thing.
[18:14] Speaker 4: The Law of Moses is obviously a very big part
[18:17] Speaker 4: of the Bible. But how do I put this as
[18:19] Speaker 4: a Christian, as a follower of Jesus. I'm not Jewish,
[18:23] Speaker 4: you know, I'm not submitting. I mean I don't submit
[18:27] Speaker 4: to the Old Testament fully, if that makes sense. I
[18:30] Speaker 4: don't subscribe to the Mosaics because it wasn't for me, right,
[18:33] Speaker 4: So I don't think that would have affected me very
[18:35] Speaker 4: I'll cut to the Jesus. I'll cut to the chase. Okay.
[18:39] Speaker 1: So in Glatians, Paul writes and says, for all who
[18:41] Speaker 1: rely on the works of the Law are under a curse,
[18:44] Speaker 1: For it is written curses everyone who does not observe
[18:47] Speaker 1: and obey all the things written in the Book of
[18:48] Speaker 1: the Law. And Paul goes on to write in the
[18:50] Speaker 1: Book of Glatians and elsewhere that the Law was a curse.
[18:54] Speaker 1: In fact, in Acts chapter fifteen, they say it was
[18:57] Speaker 1: a burden too heavy even for our forefathers to live.
[19:00] Speaker 5: So do you believe that the Law was a curse?
[19:06] Speaker 5: Do I believe that the Law was a curse? So
[19:10] Speaker 5: the fine cursor, we don't know what the curses. No,
[19:15] Speaker 5: I know what it is. But I'm just like, when
[19:16] Speaker 5: it says curse, there's a biblical with context. There's a
[19:20] Speaker 5: biblical understanding of what he means in this specific context.
[19:24] Speaker 1: What do you think of curse?
[19:25] Speaker 3: Is to me a curse? Would? I mean, that's the thing.
[19:29] Speaker 4: A curse could take on a multitude of forms, right,
[19:32] Speaker 4: That's why we have different kinds of curses.
[19:33] Speaker 3: Right, Like, for example, every.
[19:34] Speaker 4: Time you hear about a you know, practitioner, a magic
[19:38] Speaker 4: in a movie show, they don't all just say the
[19:41] Speaker 4: same curse.
[19:41] Speaker 3: There's different kinds of curses.
[19:42] Speaker 4: Oh, your curse to you know, be a short I
[19:47] Speaker 4: don't know, goblin or something, or your curse to never grow,
[19:50] Speaker 4: or your curse to never age that kind of stuff.
[19:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, A curse is is something that's either spoken or
[19:57] Speaker 1: placed upon somebody in it specifically invokes harm. It's the
[20:02] Speaker 1: opposite of a blessing, right, Like a blessing invokes good
[20:06] Speaker 1: and a curse invokes harm.
[20:10] Speaker 4: Yeah, I can see that point. So yeah, in this context,
[20:13] Speaker 4: right when he says the law is a curse, that
[20:14] Speaker 4: would be under the belief that one people who failed
[20:17] Speaker 4: to subscribe to the law would be under the condemnation
[20:20] Speaker 4: of God. So you could very well say that that
[20:23] Speaker 4: is a curse there, because nobody wants to fall under
[20:25] Speaker 4: the condemnation of God.
[20:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that that's what Paul said. Now listen
[20:29] Speaker 1: to what it says in Psalms Thalm one, verse one
[20:33] Speaker 1: and two. Happy are those who do not follow the
[20:35] Speaker 1: advice of the wicked, or take the path that sinner's tread,
[20:39] Speaker 1: or sit at the seat of the scoffers. But their
[20:41] Speaker 1: delight is in the law of the Lord, and on
[20:44] Speaker 1: his law they meditate day and night. Doesn't sound like
[20:48] Speaker 1: a curse, does it.
[20:50] Speaker 4: Yeah, so it doesn't necessarily Yeah, I mean reading this
[20:54] Speaker 4: specific verse though, in order for this to be a
[20:56] Speaker 4: contradition and would have to say that the law is
[20:58] Speaker 4: a blessing, but it doesn't say that. It just says
[21:01] Speaker 4: that they delight in it. Yeah, and then why would
[21:04] Speaker 4: you take that Why would you take the light in
[21:06] Speaker 4: a curse?
[21:06] Speaker 3: Yeah? I explain that.
[21:07] Speaker 4: So even under that context, right, you have to understand
[21:10] Speaker 4: the purpose that the law is served in the Old Testament,
[21:13] Speaker 4: the law is given to the Israelites by God as
[21:16] Speaker 4: a way for them to not only one be protected,
[21:20] Speaker 4: but two to worship.
[21:22] Speaker 3: And follow God.
[21:23] Speaker 4: Right, because if we are God's chosen people. Well, I'll
[21:28] Speaker 4: put it like this, what was the law? The law
[21:30] Speaker 4: is the curse in context? So what does the law
[21:32] Speaker 4: command them to do?
[21:33] Speaker 1: It tells them to do a lot of things exactly.
[21:37] Speaker 3: It could be beneficial.
[21:43] Speaker 1: Purses aren't protective, you know that, right.
[21:47] Speaker 4: It says in this specific I already kind of explain
[21:50] Speaker 4: how this could be interpreted as a curse, like when
[21:53] Speaker 4: they Because this is the thing. You can have your
[21:55] Speaker 4: word definitions, that's great, keep them, stick to them, but
[21:58] Speaker 4: you have to understand when you're reading the Bible and
[21:59] Speaker 4: you're going to read these things, you have to use context.
[22:02] Speaker 4: And with context, I think I kind of.
[22:04] Speaker 1: Actually know the context, all right, So we'll try this again.
[22:07] Speaker 1: Is the Law of Moses a curse or not?
[22:11] Speaker 4: I believe it is by definition of course.
[22:13] Speaker 1: Okay, if it's a curse, then it can't also be
[22:17] Speaker 1: a blessing.
[22:20] Speaker 4: I would assume, so law of non contradiction.
[22:24] Speaker 1: Okay, Right, So if it's a curse and it can't
[22:28] Speaker 1: be a blessing and a blessing can't be a curse,
[22:31] Speaker 1: then it's got to be one or the other. And
[22:33] Speaker 1: Psalm chapter one, and also I would say Psalm nineteen
[22:38] Speaker 1: says the same thing, that it's actually is a blessing,
[22:40] Speaker 1: blessed for those who follow the law, delight in the law. Yeah,
[22:49] Speaker 1: you see kind of the problem like the Old Testament,
[22:51] Speaker 1: in the New Testament, doesn't they don't actually agree on
[22:54] Speaker 1: whether or not the law was a good thing or
[22:56] Speaker 1: a bad thing, because Paul tells you it's temporary for
[23:00] Speaker 1: its school master, whereas the god of the Old Testament
[23:04] Speaker 1: says to follow the law forever.
[23:06] Speaker 4: Okay, So yeah, I mean, obviously, if you want, you
[23:10] Speaker 4: can say it's a contradiction here, but then I kind
[23:12] Speaker 4: of have that. This is why when we first even
[23:14] Speaker 4: started this conversation earlier, when you ask me what is
[23:18] Speaker 4: what does a contradiction mean if it were to be
[23:21] Speaker 4: found in the Bible, what would that mean for me?
[23:22] Speaker 4: That's why I was like, Okay, well we have to
[23:24] Speaker 4: go into detail about what this contradiction is because you
[23:28] Speaker 4: have to understand when my understanding of this is one
[23:32] Speaker 4: Moses's law or yeah, the law.
[23:37] Speaker 3: That Moses was given and then he gave to these people.
[23:39] Speaker 4: I can one hundred percent see how it would be
[23:41] Speaker 4: a curse because when people didn't follow this law back when, right,
[23:45] Speaker 4: there will be all kinds of just bad consequences, but
[23:48] Speaker 4: then there was also a lot of good that came
[23:50] Speaker 4: from them following the law. When they followed the law, right,
[23:53] Speaker 4: God would uplift these people and protect these people. Right,
[23:56] Speaker 4: So that's another beneficial aspect of it. Us Christians have
[23:59] Speaker 4: a saying a blessing in disguise, right, there are sometimes
[24:03] Speaker 4: things that appear to be harmful, but they actually do
[24:06] Speaker 4: more good for us than you know, we knew of
[24:09] Speaker 4: at that time. So that's essentially what I would have
[24:13] Speaker 4: to say to that. Sure, it can be a contradiction
[24:15] Speaker 4: if you want to say it can right on word
[24:17] Speaker 4: definition and basis, but when you really look into it,
[24:20] Speaker 4: I feel like and you observe, like the context of it,
[24:24] Speaker 4: the meaning of it, right, and everything behind it. I
[24:26] Speaker 4: don't see why that would be something that would completely
[24:28] Speaker 4: disqualify you from believing in the Bible or following it.
[24:30] Speaker 1: Oh no, this is literally just the tip he says.
[24:34] Speaker 1: There's another contradiction. In the same verse, he says that
[24:37] Speaker 1: no one is righteous by the law. Says, now it
[24:39] Speaker 1: is evident that no one is reckoned as righteous before
[24:42] Speaker 1: God by the law. But the same New Testament also
[24:48] Speaker 1: says that Zachariah and Elizabeth were righteous according to all
[24:51] Speaker 1: of the commandments of the Law.
[24:56] Speaker 4: That would just essentially mean that. So it's saying you
[24:59] Speaker 4: can't be righteous God alone by the law, right, because
[25:02] Speaker 4: I mean you didn't say alone to go into it.
[25:06] Speaker 3: Pull the verse back up, Yeah.
[25:07] Speaker 1: I'll put it back up. It says it is evident
[25:10] Speaker 1: that no one is reckoned as righteous before God by
[25:13] Speaker 1: the law.
[25:15] Speaker 4: Exactly, so, no one's righteous before God by the law.
[25:18] Speaker 4: You can be righteous in the law in the sense
[25:20] Speaker 4: of which is huh, which is untrue? Well, not necessarily
[25:27] Speaker 4: with the prior verse you gave. Nowhere, give me the
[25:30] Speaker 4: verse that you gave me to say that this was
[25:32] Speaker 4: a contradiction.
[25:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to be in uh Luke chapter one.
[25:38] Speaker 1: It's also true of David as well. Give me a
[25:41] Speaker 1: second thought, break I did say alone. Well, the word
[25:45] Speaker 1: alone is meaningless. It's not in any of these passages.
[25:48] Speaker 4: Actually, if you if we could just read the verses,
[25:50] Speaker 4: I'll try to explain it, because you're not at the
[25:52] Speaker 4: end of the day. Whether you want to accept it
[25:54] Speaker 4: or not is up to you. I just recommend you do.
[25:57] Speaker 1: So what it says is in Luke chapter one six,
[26:00] Speaker 1: both of them, referring to zach Rye and Elizabeth were
[26:03] Speaker 1: righteous before God, living blamelessly according to all the commandments
[26:07] Speaker 1: and regulations of the Lord.
[26:12] Speaker 4: And then the prior verse says no one could be
[26:14] Speaker 4: righteous before God.
[26:15] Speaker 1: Yeah, we're just read where Paul states, yeah, that no
[26:18] Speaker 1: one is righteous according to the law. But here it
[26:20] Speaker 1: says that they were righteous before God, and the reason
[26:22] Speaker 1: why they were righteous is because they were living blamelessly
[26:24] Speaker 1: according to all the commandments and regulations.
[26:30] Speaker 4: Okay, I mean yeah, like I was saying, if you want,
[26:33] Speaker 4: you can say, you can say this as a contradicted, right, but.
[26:36] Speaker 1: Like it's kind of a huge problem, like whether or
[26:39] Speaker 1: not's whether or not the law was good or bad.
[26:42] Speaker 1: It's kind of a huge thing because Christians, like one
[26:45] Speaker 1: of the whole things that Christian is like basing like
[26:47] Speaker 1: their faith on is that the law was like a
[26:50] Speaker 1: temporary school master and you shouldn't have to follow it
[26:54] Speaker 1: and that you should just be justified by faith. But
[26:57] Speaker 1: like literally everything before Paul showed up says the opposite.
[27:01] Speaker 1: In fact, Jesus and Paul don't even agree. Jesus said
[27:04] Speaker 1: that following the law was good. You want to see that.
[27:08] Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, I mean, well, this is the thing.
[27:10] Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure when you read all of those books
[27:13] Speaker 4: you kind of get because I mean it's obviously it's
[27:15] Speaker 4: going to be complex, but you kind of get the
[27:17] Speaker 4: understanding of it all. So the thing is, put this
[27:23] Speaker 4: the law right, it, like I said, it had his
[27:27] Speaker 4: goods in its bats. But when Jesus came about right,
[27:31] Speaker 4: then you'll actually find verses that kind of come to
[27:33] Speaker 4: support this point.
[27:35] Speaker 3: We're under his revision of the laws. That makes sense.
[27:39] Speaker 4: He explains it to us and tells us everything right
[27:42] Speaker 4: that we need to do in following him.
[27:44] Speaker 1: Therefore, should you found the law? Should you follow the
[27:48] Speaker 1: law or not?
[27:50] Speaker 3: I say, you follow what Jesus does told.
[27:52] Speaker 1: You, did you well? Jesus said, to follow the law.
[27:57] Speaker 4: Okay, hold on, we have to look into the very though,
[28:00] Speaker 4: because I'm like, if you just take versus at face value,
[28:03] Speaker 4: you're not okay. Jesus also said Moses was the accuser
[28:06] Speaker 4: of his brethren. MM and Moses.
[28:11] Speaker 1: Want me to show you.
[28:13] Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, I'm not saying you're wrong, because I'm pretty
[28:16] Speaker 4: sure I know what you're talking about. But Jesus said
[28:18] Speaker 4: a lot of things that at face value will look
[28:21] Speaker 4: like huh.
[28:22] Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
[28:23] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[28:23] Speaker 1: We shouldn't think that words have meanings.
[28:26] Speaker 4: I no think they have meaning, but read into them.
[28:28] Speaker 4: That's completely contradictory to what I'm saying. I thot I've
[28:31] Speaker 4: read it clearly. So Matthew five says, this is Jesus's words.
[28:35] Speaker 4: Do not think that I have come to abolish the
[28:37] Speaker 4: law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish,
[28:39] Speaker 4: but to fulfill. For truly, I tell you, until heaven
[28:42] Speaker 4: and earth passed away, not one letter, not one stroke
[28:44] Speaker 4: of a letter, will pass away from the law until
[28:47] Speaker 4: all is accomplished. Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least
[28:50] Speaker 4: of these commandments and teaches others to do the same
[28:52] Speaker 4: will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But
[28:55] Speaker 4: whoever does them and teaches them will be called great
[28:58] Speaker 4: in the Kingdom of Heaven. So Jesus doing the law
[29:01] Speaker 4: will make it great.
[29:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, Matthew, Chapter five, you know the verse where he's
[29:06] Speaker 1: tweaking the laws of Moses.
[29:08] Speaker 3: You've read it, Yeah, I mean hold on, yeah, So it's.
[29:12] Speaker 1: Not going to fix it's not going to fix the
[29:14] Speaker 1: problem you have in verse seventeen.
[29:16] Speaker 4: In verse seventeen, now, well, I'll get to that if
[29:19] Speaker 4: you're okay with that, all right. So in the beginning
[29:23] Speaker 4: of Deserves, when Jesus saw the crowds is talking about
[29:26] Speaker 4: him in the crowds and him talking to going on
[29:29] Speaker 4: the mountains hide, and then his disciples are there, and
[29:31] Speaker 4: he began to teach everyone, and he said, Blessed are
[29:34] Speaker 4: the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of God.
[29:36] Speaker 4: Bless for those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
[29:39] Speaker 4: Bless start the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
[29:41] Speaker 4: Blessed are those who hunger, thirst for righteousness, and they
[29:43] Speaker 4: will be filled.
[29:44] Speaker 1: We all know lest the passage, it's it's we got
[29:46] Speaker 1: the beatitudes. And then we've got the you have heard
[29:49] Speaker 1: it said, but I say, we all know the passage.
[29:51] Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out where the context comes in
[29:54] Speaker 1: that makes this seventh the laws.
[29:56] Speaker 4: About Yeah, so seventeen our re sevent team to go
[30:02] Speaker 4: a little bit further, if you're okay with that, because
[30:04] Speaker 4: this is very vital for what I'm about to say.
[30:06] Speaker 4: Do not think that I have come to abolish the
[30:08] Speaker 4: law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish them,
[30:10] Speaker 4: but to fulfill them. For truly, I tell you, until
[30:12] Speaker 4: heaven and Earth have pass, not the smallest letter, not
[30:15] Speaker 4: the least stroke of the pen, will by any means,
[30:17] Speaker 4: disappear from the law until everything is accomplished. Therefore, anyone
[30:21] Speaker 4: who sets us high one of the least of these commands.
[30:24] Speaker 4: So when he says least of these commands, what is
[30:26] Speaker 4: he talking about?
[30:27] Speaker 1: The Laws of Moses. He's literally referring to the law
[30:31] Speaker 1: and the profits. He starts saying that I did not
[30:33] Speaker 1: come to abolish the law or the profits.
[30:36] Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, So the reason why he said the least
[30:39] Speaker 4: of these commands, though, is you can't I can see
[30:41] Speaker 4: how you came to the conclusion you're talking to But
[30:44] Speaker 4: later on. If you actually read on, he goes on
[30:46] Speaker 4: to get people commands, and in these commands, when he
[30:49] Speaker 4: says the least of these commands, he's talking about the
[30:51] Speaker 4: ones that he gave these speed.
[30:52] Speaker 1: He already gave the commands earlier in the chapter.
[30:56] Speaker 4: That's why I was reading earlier. But it nonetheless, that's
[30:59] Speaker 4: irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make.
[31:00] Speaker 1: All of those commands are in the Law of Moses.
[31:04] Speaker 4: Not some of them are actually kind of when I said, Jesus,
[31:08] Speaker 4: that's why I never I never said Jesus abolished the
[31:10] Speaker 4: old law. Never said that. I said he came to
[31:12] Speaker 4: revise it, which is essentially what he's doing.
[31:14] Speaker 1: So is the old law still in an effect?
[31:16] Speaker 3: Huh?
[31:16] Speaker 1: Is the old law still an effect?
[31:18] Speaker 2: Then?
[31:19] Speaker 4: Well, the thing is, when Jesus, if you wanted you
[31:22] Speaker 4: we are, as followers of Jesus, you're not forced to
[31:25] Speaker 4: subscribe to the old law. Because the old law did
[31:27] Speaker 4: not fool. Jesus came and revised it. He gave the
[31:30] Speaker 4: whole the entire point of the law. So originally what
[31:34] Speaker 4: the law is.
[31:35] Speaker 2: Right, right?
[31:35] Speaker 1: But did Jesus come to abolish the law is what
[31:37] Speaker 1: I'm asking.
[31:39] Speaker 4: No, it clearly says he did not, and I never
[31:41] Speaker 4: said he abolised.
[31:41] Speaker 1: To so Jesus, you and I agree then, based on
[31:44] Speaker 1: the reading of this passage, Jesus did not abolish the law.
[31:48] Speaker 3: Yeah, all right?
[31:49] Speaker 1: Do you know that Paul disagrees?
[31:52] Speaker 4: Well, that's Paul, But I'm a follower. How do I
[31:55] Speaker 4: put this? I would prefer you would allow for me
[31:58] Speaker 4: to kind of answer what you're saying, though, because you're
[32:00] Speaker 4: saying it's a contradiction, but it's really not a contradiction.
[32:03] Speaker 1: Let me read it for you. You tell me how
[32:04] Speaker 1: it's not a contradiction.
[32:06] Speaker 3: Okay, great.
[32:07] Speaker 1: Inlations to Paul says, sorry.
[32:09] Speaker 4: Sorry, are we talking about Galatians or this verse? I
[32:11] Speaker 4: would like to focus on this verse before we jump
[32:13] Speaker 4: to another one.
[32:13] Speaker 1: If you're okay with that, Okay, you're gonna tell me
[32:16] Speaker 1: in Matthew five that abolish doesn't mean abolish, and fulfilled
[32:19] Speaker 1: doesn't mean not.
[32:20] Speaker 4: Didn't say anything about that, right, go for it.
[32:22] Speaker 3: No.
[32:23] Speaker 4: Yeah, So the entire reason I mean is kind of
[32:28] Speaker 4: so in seventeen right, the reason when Jesus says the
[32:32] Speaker 4: least of these commands and teaches others accordingly. Right, he's
[32:35] Speaker 4: talking when he says the least of these commands. He's
[32:37] Speaker 4: talking about the literal commands that he gives right after
[32:41] Speaker 4: in that why.
[32:42] Speaker 1: Would anyone think that when the statement starts out with,
[32:45] Speaker 1: do not think that I have come to abolish the
[32:47] Speaker 1: law or the prophets?
[32:49] Speaker 4: Because if he's going to say something, okay, so actually
[32:52] Speaker 4: that's a great that's a great question. So Jesus came
[32:57] Speaker 4: is Israelite, right, Israelites already have laws, but Jesus comes
[33:00] Speaker 4: and he gives new laws. And these laws actually that
[33:03] Speaker 4: what the things that Jesus says after this passage, if
[33:06] Speaker 4: you were to compare them to the Mosaic law in
[33:09] Speaker 4: certain aspects, they will be kind of people, wouldn't The
[33:14] Speaker 4: Israelites most like people that have to ascribe to it.
[33:16] Speaker 4: And that's why Jesus is basically saying, Okay, I'm not
[33:18] Speaker 4: trying to abolish the law here. I'm not giving you
[33:20] Speaker 4: new laws and saying all the old stuff is blah
[33:22] Speaker 4: blah blah. But I'm reinterpreting it essentially. That's why he
[33:26] Speaker 4: says that in the beginning.
[33:28] Speaker 1: The question we're trying to answer here is whether or
[33:30] Speaker 1: not he abolished the law. That's what we're trying to answer.
[33:33] Speaker 4: And he clearly says he hasn't abolished the Laway, what
[33:37] Speaker 4: we're trying to figure out?
[33:38] Speaker 1: Okay, So did Jesus abolish the law?
[33:40] Speaker 3: Yes? Or no? No?
[33:42] Speaker 1: He fulfilled it, But well fulfilled doesn't mean abolish. I'm
[33:45] Speaker 1: asking about abolish. Never said that, Okay, So he didn't
[33:48] Speaker 1: come to abolish the law. So then Paul was wrong
[33:50] Speaker 1: in Inphesians when he says that for he is our
[33:54] Speaker 1: piece in his flesh, he has made both into one
[33:58] Speaker 1: and has broken down the dividing wall that is the
[34:00] Speaker 1: hostility between us, abolishing the law and its commandments and ordinances,
[34:04] Speaker 1: that he might create in himself one new humanity in
[34:07] Speaker 1: place of the two, thus making peace. So Paul says
[34:10] Speaker 1: that he did abolish the law and the commandments.
[34:13] Speaker 3: Yeah, so.
[34:15] Speaker 4: With this, well, I mean with this specific verse, right.
[34:20] Speaker 4: The reason Paul says all the stuff he says after abolish,
[34:24] Speaker 4: Like if you search up the definition of fulfill, it
[34:27] Speaker 4: means to bring to completion or reality, achieve or realize.
[34:30] Speaker 1: Correct, does it mean abolish?
[34:32] Speaker 4: If you let me talk, I explain it to you.
[34:35] Speaker 4: But the reason why Paul says that he took away
[34:37] Speaker 4: this separation here is because when Jesus came. Okay, you
[34:40] Speaker 4: got to understand the Israelites were under the Mosaic Law,
[34:43] Speaker 4: which was a law given specifically to them.
[34:45] Speaker 1: No, I've read the Bible, I promise you.
[34:48] Speaker 3: We clearly. I mean you've read it. It's just we
[34:51] Speaker 3: arrived at different Inportase.
[34:53] Speaker 1: I've read the Bible, you don't have to like tell.
[34:56] Speaker 3: There are people in here who haven't, right, is it
[34:58] Speaker 3: okay if I explain this a little.
[34:59] Speaker 1: Bit, so I'm willing to bet most of the audience
[35:01] Speaker 1: has read it too. But yeah, this is my audience.
[35:05] Speaker 1: I'm pretty good, pretty good at ridding the Bible.
[35:09] Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I just feel like if you would
[35:11] Speaker 4: allow for me to kind of explain things, you come
[35:14] Speaker 4: to a great understanding if.
[35:16] Speaker 1: You just The reason why the reason why I don't
[35:18] Speaker 1: let you tell stories is because typically the responses you
[35:22] Speaker 1: need are like one or two sentences, and you like
[35:25] Speaker 1: take whole paragraphs like you're not really good at getting
[35:30] Speaker 1: and so do I.
[35:31] Speaker 4: Okay, I can try to chop it down if you're
[35:33] Speaker 4: okay with that, but I like to give full context because.
[35:35] Speaker 1: You so, the question that I asked was does fulfill
[35:40] Speaker 1: me and abolish? And it's just a yes or no.
[35:43] Speaker 3: Okay.
[35:43] Speaker 1: So what's the difference between a fulfilling something and abolishing it.
[35:48] Speaker 4: Abolishing it means to be completely done away with it,
[35:51] Speaker 4: while fulfillment means.
[35:52] Speaker 1: To complete it right and and in one case it
[35:56] Speaker 1: means it goes away, and in another case it doesn't.
[35:58] Speaker 4: Right, well, actually it can still go away. Its just
[36:02] Speaker 4: how I'll put this. If I were to abolish something,
[36:04] Speaker 4: if if it goes away, then if we're just talking
[36:06] Speaker 4: word definition, because you got to realize we're just talking
[36:08] Speaker 4: word definition here. But even in word definition here, you
[36:11] Speaker 4: have to understand. When someone fulfills something, it can very
[36:14] Speaker 4: well go away. That just means it was completed. When
[36:16] Speaker 4: someone abolishes something, I would think that would more so
[36:18] Speaker 4: mean it goes away had it been completed.
[36:20] Speaker 1: Can you name a single law that you don't have
[36:22] Speaker 1: to do after you fulfill it?
[36:25] Speaker 4: A single law that I don't have to do it?
[36:26] Speaker 4: I mean that, Let's see, I mean I can't think
[36:31] Speaker 4: of any off the top.
[36:32] Speaker 1: Of my laws. Aren't one and done when you fulfill
[36:35] Speaker 1: the law, so you complete the requirements of the law,
[36:38] Speaker 1: then in fact the law still stands because you have
[36:41] Speaker 1: to follow it the first time, the second time the thirs.
[36:43] Speaker 3: Exactly, And that's the whole point I was saying.
[36:44] Speaker 4: But I'm saying based on word definition, if you want
[36:46] Speaker 4: to stick to word definition, that's the concise conclusion you
[36:49] Speaker 4: could come to. Now you're essentially doing what I wanted
[36:53] Speaker 4: you to do. You essentially just stated that word definition, right,
[36:56] Speaker 4: can be different from law, from the definition that you
[37:00] Speaker 4: would derive from actual actually acting out these things. And
[37:03] Speaker 4: that's how I put this. You're trying to relate the
[37:07] Speaker 4: soul word definition to the Bible, and that's okay in
[37:10] Speaker 4: certain aspects that you have to realize.
[37:12] Speaker 3: You can't just do that. You need to take context.
[37:14] Speaker 4: So the Bible is talking about this and with in
[37:16] Speaker 4: a different context. It's not just the word definition like
[37:20] Speaker 4: just great word definition, just ae word, just these two words.
[37:23] Speaker 4: There's a lot of stuff prior to this that explains it.
[37:25] Speaker 4: That's why Jesus.
[37:27] Speaker 1: Everything I'm awhere, I've read the whole thing. That's why
[37:29] Speaker 1: I'm heavy to understand that the words fulfilled and the
[37:32] Speaker 1: word abolish for different words.
[37:33] Speaker 3: Right.
[37:34] Speaker 1: So if by fulfill he means that it goes away,
[37:37] Speaker 1: then first of all, he's a liar, said and words
[37:39] Speaker 1: don't have any meaning ember. Second of all, what he
[37:41] Speaker 1: says after that is meaningless because what he says after
[37:44] Speaker 1: the implies that he didn't come to abolish the law,
[37:47] Speaker 1: because he says.
[37:49] Speaker 3: Exactly that's literally.
[37:50] Speaker 1: Ever, Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these
[37:52] Speaker 1: commandments and teaches others to do the same will be
[37:54] Speaker 1: called least in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever does
[37:57] Speaker 1: them and teaches them will be called great in the
[37:58] Speaker 1: Kingdom of heaven. So Jesus is saying that it's good
[38:02] Speaker 1: to follow these laws. It will make you great in
[38:04] Speaker 1: the Kingdom of Heaven to follow them.
[38:06] Speaker 4: Okay, And what laws is he talking about?
[38:08] Speaker 1: The laws of Moses?
[38:10] Speaker 4: Then why does he give all of these various reinterpretations
[38:13] Speaker 4: of the law afterwards?
[38:15] Speaker 1: Interpreting the law in a way that is unique is
[38:18] Speaker 1: not saying that the law is going away.
[38:20] Speaker 2: What he's doing.
[38:21] Speaker 4: That's the entire point I've been making. That's the whole
[38:23] Speaker 4: point I've been making.
[38:24] Speaker 1: That's not the point we're talking about. No one's asking
[38:27] Speaker 1: if he's giving a unique interpretation of how to follow
[38:30] Speaker 1: a specific law. The question is whether or not the
[38:33] Speaker 1: law still applies, whether or not it needs to be followed.
[38:37] Speaker 1: That's what we're talk about right now, because this is
[38:40] Speaker 1: what Jesus law. This is where Jesus and Paul disagree.
[38:43] Speaker 1: So try to stand track with me. Jesus says that
[38:47] Speaker 1: you should follow the law and that you'll be great
[38:50] Speaker 1: in the Kingdom of Heaven for doing so. Paul said
[38:53] Speaker 1: the opposite.
[38:56] Speaker 3: Okay, So.
[38:58] Speaker 4: Could you give me the verse where Paul says that,
[39:01] Speaker 4: and then I can tell you what I believe the
[39:04] Speaker 4: biblical meaning of what he's saying is.
[39:07] Speaker 1: In quite a few places. Paul says in Glatians three
[39:10] Speaker 1: twenty three, now before faith came, we were imprisoned and
[39:14] Speaker 1: guarded under the law until faith would be revealed. And
[39:17] Speaker 1: in later in Ephesians, says that it was completely abolished.
[39:21] Speaker 1: It says the hostility between us abolishing the law with
[39:24] Speaker 1: its commandments and ordinances, that he might create himself, so
[39:26] Speaker 1: on and so forth. So Paul has said a dozen
[39:29] Speaker 1: times at least that the law has been done away with.
[39:32] Speaker 1: And even Paul himself, a Jew, says that he's not
[39:35] Speaker 1: bound by the law anymore either, and that's in Corinthians.
[39:41] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[39:41] Speaker 4: I also want to say one thing too, if because
[39:45] Speaker 4: I see a lot of people in the commons saying
[39:47] Speaker 4: I'm yapping. All right, I'm sorry if what I'm saying
[39:50] Speaker 4: is too much for you guys, but you have to understand.
[39:51] Speaker 1: It's not too much. Is that you use a lot
[39:53] Speaker 1: of words, and it's usually kind of off topic, like
[39:56] Speaker 1: you're having trouble focusing on the specific thing we're talking about,
[40:00] Speaker 1: and we're talking about very specific things, and you keep
[40:03] Speaker 1: kind of going off on tangential issues.
[40:07] Speaker 3: Yeah. I think so.
[40:08] Speaker 4: I think what I'm doing is just providing context for questions.
[40:12] Speaker 4: We know the context clearly. I don't think some of
[40:15] Speaker 4: the people in the comments stay they do. I feel like,
[40:18] Speaker 4: if I'm going to be one hundred percent honest with
[40:19] Speaker 4: you as someone that's not here, you're.
[40:21] Speaker 1: Not here to talk to the comments, here to talk
[40:22] Speaker 1: to me.
[40:23] Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm here to.
[40:24] Speaker 1: Talk to you.
[40:24] Speaker 4: Don't worry about the comment Okay, Well, is it possible
[40:27] Speaker 4: for me and just you to talk?
[40:28] Speaker 3: Then there learning there's four hundred seven. Yeah, we're doing everything.
[40:31] Speaker 1: We're doing it right now.
[40:33] Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean alone without being watched by four hundreds
[40:36] Speaker 4: that I do that?
[40:38] Speaker 3: Why not?
[40:39] Speaker 1: Why would I?
[40:40] Speaker 4: Because isn't the goal of this conversation just me and
[40:43] Speaker 4: you to talk?
[40:44] Speaker 3: Right?
[40:46] Speaker 1: This is an educational experience for everybody.
[40:48] Speaker 4: Okay, exactly, So if there are people in the comments
[40:50] Speaker 4: that are being educated, are the conversation? Do you think
[40:53] Speaker 4: not operate if you're here to educate me not not
[40:57] Speaker 4: necessarily mean you're just having a conversation. But I understand
[41:00] Speaker 4: that when people are uninformed on things, which very much people,
[41:04] Speaker 4: I mean many people in the chat can be. Then
[41:06] Speaker 4: why is it an issue for me to try?
[41:07] Speaker 1: My opinion is that the chat is more informed than
[41:10] Speaker 1: you are because they watch my show regularly, and I'm
[41:13] Speaker 1: actually quite informed.
[41:14] Speaker 3: So I never said you were.
[41:16] Speaker 1: Let's actually let's actually focus on the substance of what
[41:19] Speaker 1: the Bible says. No, I understand exactly what you're saying.
[41:21] Speaker 3: I do clearly with it.
[41:22] Speaker 1: No, I clearly do. You haven't paid attention to a
[41:25] Speaker 1: single point that's been raised, So make it very clear.
[41:29] Speaker 1: I can't even are not are not stop talking over me?
[41:33] Speaker 1: You know no one can hear you when you talk
[41:34] Speaker 1: over me. Right, you know my mic is way louder
[41:36] Speaker 1: than yours.
[41:38] Speaker 3: That's great.
[41:38] Speaker 4: I'm not trying, So I'm trying.
[41:41] Speaker 1: If you want to be heard, you should not talk
[41:43] Speaker 1: over me. That's what you should do. Now, listen, if
[41:45] Speaker 1: you do, you're welcome to do it. I am more
[41:48] Speaker 1: than happy to talk while you're talking and let everyone
[41:51] Speaker 1: hear you mumbling in the background forever. But the point
[41:54] Speaker 1: here is, and it's very clear that Jesus and Paul
[41:58] Speaker 1: Yahweh and Paul, they disagree on the law. They disagree
[42:03] Speaker 1: and whether or not it's a curse or a blessing.
[42:05] Speaker 1: They disagree on whether or not it's temporary or eternal.
[42:09] Speaker 1: They disagree on whether or not it has been abolished
[42:12] Speaker 1: or not been abolished. Both Jesus and his father both
[42:15] Speaker 1: said that it's in effect until heaven and Earth pass away,
[42:20] Speaker 1: and that's clear in the Old Testament too. Paul is
[42:24] Speaker 1: the voice that in disagreement. He's the one that's contradicting
[42:27] Speaker 1: what God and Jesus are saying.
[42:32] Speaker 4: Okay, so to this point.
[42:35] Speaker 1: So can you can you tell me in your will
[42:38] Speaker 1: make this very clear? Just yes or no? Who of
[42:40] Speaker 1: the law still be in effect according to Jesus and God.
[42:44] Speaker 4: Yes or no, I'll say, God has given a law
[42:52] Speaker 4: to everyone, and that's a law that's an effect.
[42:54] Speaker 1: It's a yes or no? Is it still an effect?
[42:58] Speaker 4: The mosaic law, the one where we have to sacrifice
[43:04] Speaker 4: cattle and cows to gain repentance for.
[43:06] Speaker 1: Us and the entire law.
[43:09] Speaker 4: Okay, so by your logic, because this shows your dissonance.
[43:13] Speaker 3: By your logic.
[43:14] Speaker 4: No, because the entire reason Jesus came and died on
[43:17] Speaker 4: the cross, right, was so that we wouldn't all of
[43:21] Speaker 4: humanity could be forgiven one.
[43:23] Speaker 1: Two.
[43:23] Speaker 4: Also, the Mosaic law was not for all of humanity.
[43:26] Speaker 4: It was only for the Israelites.
[43:28] Speaker 3: Three.
[43:29] Speaker 4: Jesus dying on the cross eliminated the need for people
[43:31] Speaker 4: to consistently sacrifice cattle in other various animals. Right, there's
[43:35] Speaker 4: clearly a difference between the law in Jesus's time and
[43:38] Speaker 4: the law.
[43:39] Speaker 1: So then you've just found the contradiction. Because the Book
[43:42] Speaker 1: of Hebrews, the apostle Paul disagrees with God who gave
[43:46] Speaker 1: the laws, and disagrees with Jesus himself. Jesus didn't say
[43:50] Speaker 1: that it was temporary. He didn't say that you don't
[43:52] Speaker 1: have to do it anymore. He said it until heaven
[43:54] Speaker 1: and earth passed away. Heaven earth hasn't actually passed away,
[43:58] Speaker 1: which means it's a contradiction. Now, the God of the
[44:00] Speaker 1: Old Testament said the same thing in fact, God said
[44:03] Speaker 1: that when we bring about this new era where he
[44:06] Speaker 1: circumcises the heart. You recognize that phrase, the circumcision of
[44:09] Speaker 1: the heart. What does he say in Deuteronomy thirty is
[44:14] Speaker 1: going to happen when he circumcises the people's heart? Let
[44:19] Speaker 1: me see says moreover, the Lord of God will circumcise
[44:32] Speaker 1: your heart and the heart of your descendants, so that
[44:34] Speaker 1: you will love the Lord your God with all your heart,
[44:36] Speaker 1: with all your soul, in order that you may live.
[44:38] Speaker 1: The Lord your God will put all these curses on
[44:40] Speaker 1: your enemies and on the adversaries who took advantage of you.
[44:44] Speaker 1: Then you shall again obey the Lord, observing all of
[44:46] Speaker 1: his commandments that I am commanding you today. So, the
[44:53] Speaker 1: era where God circumcises the heart, like what you read
[44:56] Speaker 1: in the Book of Jeremiah, what you read in the
[44:57] Speaker 1: Book of Ezekiel, era includes the laws of Moses being followed.
[45:09] Speaker 3: Yeah, what's up? Uh?
[45:15] Speaker 4: No, sorry, I'll be on in a second. Sorry, what
[45:22] Speaker 4: did you say.
[45:23] Speaker 1: According to Deuteronomy thirty, the era in which God circumcises
[45:27] Speaker 1: the heart of all the people, that era includes following
[45:30] Speaker 1: the laws of Moses.
[45:35] Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I don't wait how did you come.
[45:37] Speaker 1: Okay, let me Deuteronomy thirty six through eight.
[45:42] Speaker 4: Okay, that's it, because you just said thirty the first time.
[45:44] Speaker 6: I was like, no, huh oh.
[45:57] Speaker 4: When he says put curses on his enemies, are you
[46:00] Speaker 4: saying that because you believe that the Mosaic law has occurs,
[46:03] Speaker 4: he's saying he'll put that curse on them too. No, okay,
[46:07] Speaker 4: what are you saying here?
[46:09] Speaker 3: Now?
[46:09] Speaker 1: The curse is not the law. The curse is just
[46:11] Speaker 1: that he's going to dispel Israel's enemies, that's all. So
[46:14] Speaker 1: the passage says that when he circumcises the heart of Israel,
[46:18] Speaker 1: he's going to do away with their enemies, and he's
[46:21] Speaker 1: going to circumcize the heart so that again they'll obey
[46:23] Speaker 1: the Lord, observing all of his commands that I am
[46:26] Speaker 1: commanding you today. This is written in the book of Deuteronomy.
[46:28] Speaker 1: Moses has already given all the commands of God, and
[46:31] Speaker 1: he's saying, listen, you're going to go astray. God's going
[46:34] Speaker 1: to punish you, but eventually he's going to circumcize your
[46:36] Speaker 1: hearts when he does that, when he gets to that point,
[46:40] Speaker 1: he's going to do it so that you are obeying
[46:42] Speaker 1: all of these commands that I've given you. Okay, And
[46:47] Speaker 1: we read about this in Ezekiel, we read about this elsewhere,
[46:51] Speaker 1: This this New Covenant era, like Jeremiah talks about it.
[46:55] Speaker 1: When there's a when we have the Messiah, so on
[46:57] Speaker 1: and so forth. It includes the laws of Moe. This
[47:00] Speaker 1: every time that this is true, all through the Old Testament,
[47:04] Speaker 1: all through the prophets, even up to Jesus's teachings. You
[47:08] Speaker 1: don't get any sort of change until you get after
[47:11] Speaker 1: Jesus' death. After Jesus dies, people are like, and we
[47:14] Speaker 1: don't really like this law business anymore. Let's rework it.
[47:20] Speaker 4: I mean, but prior to Jesus's death, you have him
[47:23] Speaker 4: further elaborating on the law.
[47:26] Speaker 1: Did Jesus ever say the law was temporary? Because he
[47:28] Speaker 1: only says the opposite. He says, following the law will
[47:32] Speaker 1: make you great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
[47:34] Speaker 4: I never said that he said that the law was temporary, Okay.
[47:36] Speaker 1: So if Jesus didn't say the law was temporary, if
[47:38] Speaker 1: Jesus says that not a job or chittle will pass
[47:40] Speaker 1: away until Heaven and Earth pass away, that means a
[47:42] Speaker 1: law is still in effect. And you can complain that
[47:44] Speaker 1: it's not for gentiles, that that's not even that's not
[47:48] Speaker 1: even the question we're asking right now. We're asking right
[47:50] Speaker 1: now whether they're not it's temporary or.
[47:52] Speaker 4: Permanent, Whether or not the law is temporary or permanent,
[47:56] Speaker 4: that's what I'm asking about. I mean, clearly, it's quite okay.
[47:59] Speaker 4: So heaven and Earth, when they do pass away, the
[48:01] Speaker 4: law won't be in effect anymore.
[48:02] Speaker 1: Correct, Yeah, when heaven and Earth pass away, and you've
[48:05] Speaker 1: got and you've got the New Jerusalem and so on
[48:08] Speaker 1: and so forth. But that is actually, that's actually another
[48:12] Speaker 1: contradiction because if you read the you read the prophets
[48:17] Speaker 1: on the new Jerusalem, the new Heaven, new Earth, it
[48:19] Speaker 1: still includes people following the law, and it still includes
[48:22] Speaker 1: levites giving offerings and sacrifices in the temple. So even
[48:26] Speaker 1: Jesus contradicts the Old Testament.
[48:29] Speaker 3: Could you give me some examples of this.
[48:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, I would go probably first to Isaiah chapter sixty five,
[48:39] Speaker 1: or g me a second. Sixty six is probably what
[48:43] Speaker 1: we want to do. So Isaiah sixty five is where
[48:47] Speaker 1: you get the new heavens and the new Earth. That's
[48:49] Speaker 1: what it starts in sixty five seventeen. I'll read it
[48:55] Speaker 1: for him, Isaiah sixty five seventeen. For I am about
[48:59] Speaker 1: to create new heaven and a new Earth. The former
[49:01] Speaker 1: things shall not be remembered or come to mind. But
[49:04] Speaker 1: be glad and rejoice forever in what I'm creating. For
[49:07] Speaker 1: I'm about to create Jerusalem as a joy and it's
[49:09] Speaker 1: people as a delight. I will rejoice in Jerusalem and
[49:11] Speaker 1: delight in my people. No more shall the sound of
[49:14] Speaker 1: weeping be heard in it, or the cry of distress,
[49:17] Speaker 1: no more shall So this is the vision like what
[49:20] Speaker 1: it says in Revelation chapter twenty one, in the New
[49:22] Speaker 1: Heaven and the New Earth. Correct, Yeah, okay, Now, this
[49:25] Speaker 1: prophecy goes on for a while. It goes on all
[49:28] Speaker 1: the way into chapter sixty six. And there's something really
[49:33] Speaker 1: interesting near the end of chapter sixty six when he's
[49:37] Speaker 1: giving you the information about verse twenty one or so,
[49:43] Speaker 1: so he talks about the gentiles being brought in right,
[49:47] Speaker 1: it says they shall bring all your kindred from all
[49:50] Speaker 1: the nations, meaning that all the Jews are going to
[49:52] Speaker 1: be collected from all the nations as an offering to
[49:54] Speaker 1: the Lord on horses and in chariots and in litters,
[49:58] Speaker 1: on mules and in uh dromedaries to my holy mountain
[50:03] Speaker 1: in Jerusalem, says the Lord. Just as the Israelites bring
[50:06] Speaker 1: a grain offering in a clean vessel to the House
[50:09] Speaker 1: of the Lord. And I also will take some of
[50:12] Speaker 1: them as priests and levites, says the Lord. For as
[50:15] Speaker 1: the new Heaven and new Earth, which I will make,
[50:16] Speaker 1: shall remain before me, says the Lord, So shall your
[50:19] Speaker 1: descendants and your name remain from new moon to new moon,
[50:23] Speaker 1: from Sabbath to Sabbath. All flesh shall come to worship
[50:26] Speaker 1: before me, says the Lord. So the worship of all
[50:30] Speaker 1: flesh before Yahweh includes priests and levites.
[50:38] Speaker 4: I mean, if the levice go to heaven, and yeah,
[50:41] Speaker 4: I think it would include them near correct, because.
[50:45] Speaker 1: Heaven just means sky like there's no like mystical secret universe.
[50:51] Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. In the context of scripture, there's
[50:53] Speaker 1: no third location named heaven. Heaven just means the sky.
[51:00] Speaker 3: Okay.
[51:00] Speaker 4: Well, I'll put it like this. When people say heaven
[51:03] Speaker 4: in the Bible, they're referring to the Kingdom of God.
[51:07] Speaker 1: The referring to the sky, okay, because that's where they
[51:11] Speaker 1: thought God lived because the Bible that God lives there.
[51:15] Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it does actually, but we have to understand,
[51:18] Speaker 4: I mean, because we're using scripture. Right, if you go
[51:21] Speaker 4: and read revelations, it's not describing just this guy. I mean,
[51:25] Speaker 4: even what the verses you just gave, it's clearly describing
[51:27] Speaker 4: a place where people are alive and you know, doing
[51:30] Speaker 4: things and actions.
[51:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, the sky, and that's where they thought.
[51:34] Speaker 4: Subscribes heaven as having golden roads.
[51:36] Speaker 3: This guy doesn't have golden roads.
[51:38] Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think that's the problem. Is not gonna
[51:40] Speaker 4: word definition. No, that's not really like reading the context.
[51:43] Speaker 1: No, you don't. You actually don't know the context. I
[51:45] Speaker 1: do so in Hebrew. In Hebrew, Hasha Mayam just refers
[51:49] Speaker 1: to the sky. That's why in the ar the Tower
[51:53] Speaker 1: of Babel story, they tried to build a tower that
[51:56] Speaker 1: will reach Hashamyam, reach the skies. The birds fly where
[52:00] Speaker 1: they fly in Hashamayam in the skies. This gets translated
[52:05] Speaker 1: to heaven, but it just means the sky, right, and
[52:08] Speaker 1: all of God's activities are in the sky. It says
[52:10] Speaker 1: in Psalm one fifty, verse one that his throne is
[52:13] Speaker 1: just above them. Was the outer portion of the sky,
[52:17] Speaker 1: which was a hard crystalline dome that they believe God.
[52:22] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[52:22] Speaker 4: So when you say hashamayam, write that word? Are there
[52:27] Speaker 4: any other examples in the Bible where it says that
[52:30] Speaker 4: word and is saying sky?
[52:32] Speaker 1: All of them?
[52:34] Speaker 4: So it's just saying sky like from because you have
[52:37] Speaker 4: to realize we're reading from an English translation.
[52:39] Speaker 3: I know.
[52:39] Speaker 4: So that's why I went to school, learned Hebrew and
[52:41] Speaker 4: greet says sky. Do the English translation say skot?
[52:46] Speaker 1: No, it says heavens, which means sky.
[52:49] Speaker 4: Okay, So there's not a single other time that it
[52:51] Speaker 4: says sky when it's translated.
[52:53] Speaker 1: No, the word sky and the word heavens are the
[52:57] Speaker 1: same thing.
[53:00] Speaker 3: I believe that.
[53:05] Speaker 4: I wouldn't necessarily agree with you in the sense of
[53:10] Speaker 4: when you read scripture and it says heaven and it
[53:12] Speaker 4: describes what heaven is, is clearly not what we would
[53:16] Speaker 4: know to be like this Gui, that's un.
[53:19] Speaker 1: Right because you don't know the Bible or the culture
[53:22] Speaker 1: or the language. But I do.
[53:24] Speaker 3: I think I have.
[53:25] Speaker 4: A decent understanding the you know, the history of the
[53:30] Speaker 4: Bible to extent it. Sure, it's a different thing to
[53:33] Speaker 4: get into, like you know, the original languages, which I'm
[53:36] Speaker 4: pretty sure. If we actually read the original manuscripts of
[53:39] Speaker 4: most of the points that you make, you'll find that
[53:40] Speaker 4: your contradictions really are just flawed interpretations.
[53:43] Speaker 1: They're actually not flawed interpretations. In fact, I gave you
[53:46] Speaker 1: a softball one that doesn't even require a lot of
[53:49] Speaker 1: like a nuance.
[53:50] Speaker 4: Everything that you said up until this point that you
[53:52] Speaker 4: considered to be a contradition does not hold any significant
[53:55] Speaker 4: theological like, yeah, it doesn't deralt any proper doesn't really derect.
[54:00] Speaker 3: The theology, Yes it does.
[54:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're still to be following if people should
[54:05] Speaker 1: be following the law of Moses. For not following the
[54:07] Speaker 1: Law of Moses, then yeah, that's a huge problem with you.
[54:11] Speaker 1: But you actually didn't.
[54:12] Speaker 3: You won't. I did, but you just don't accept it.
[54:14] Speaker 4: In the people who in the comments won't, I mean
[54:15] Speaker 4: you literally won't you to let me like when I
[54:17] Speaker 4: try to talk about it and then I can't, So
[54:20] Speaker 4: it's like there's no point.
[54:22] Speaker 3: I'm very certain that if you read the Bible, if
[54:24] Speaker 3: you had.
[54:25] Speaker 1: A mind, why are you assuming I haven't read it?
[54:29] Speaker 4: I said, if you had an open mind when you
[54:31] Speaker 4: did it, I did, you could very do you still
[54:34] Speaker 4: have an open mind up.
[54:35] Speaker 1: I have an open mind always. It sounds like you don't.
[54:37] Speaker 4: I disagree with you because well, I talk to you
[54:41] Speaker 4: and explain things to you. You were not receptive of it,
[54:43] Speaker 4: and you weren't okay, because you're wrong, okay, And that's
[54:47] Speaker 4: because you How can I be wrong if you can't
[54:49] Speaker 4: even if you won't even listen to what I was saying,
[54:51] Speaker 4: because it's very easy, So how can I be wrong?
[54:53] Speaker 3: So we'll have open So we'll.
[54:55] Speaker 1: Start this from the beginning and just make sure we
[54:57] Speaker 1: want to work clear on the argumentation so far. So
[55:00] Speaker 1: I started talking about the position of the law, whether
[55:02] Speaker 1: or not the law was temporary or permanent. Now you've
[55:05] Speaker 1: told me on multiple occasions that according to Jesus's words
[55:08] Speaker 1: in Matthew chapter five, then in fact, the law was
[55:10] Speaker 1: not temporary. And then I showed you where Paul said
[55:13] Speaker 1: it was temporary. That's a contradiction. That's what a contradiction means.
[55:19] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[55:19] Speaker 4: So, like I said already, and this is the thing,
[55:21] Speaker 4: if you listen to what I mean, I could argue that,
[55:23] Speaker 4: but I don't think we'll get anywhere with that if
[55:26] Speaker 4: you listen to what I was saying prior. That's why
[55:27] Speaker 4: when you first asked me, what does a contradiction mean
[55:29] Speaker 4: to me? I already explained to you that it would
[55:31] Speaker 4: depend on the specific contradiction, right that we're talking about.
[55:34] Speaker 4: And when we read into what is considered a contradiction here,
[55:37] Speaker 4: I believe with more contexts, it very well does make
[55:40] Speaker 4: a lot of sense. Sure, if you wanted to say,
[55:43] Speaker 4: if you it really depends on the interpretation that you
[55:45] Speaker 4: go with, too, because nowhere in there does it say
[55:48] Speaker 4: that that law was temporary. And the thing that Paul
[55:51] Speaker 4: is saying, the word temporary is not there.
[55:52] Speaker 1: You weren't listening. Latians Glatians three twenty three literally says
[55:57] Speaker 1: that you have to derive that into reportation from it.
[56:00] Speaker 4: Oh no, that's safe word temporary.
[56:02] Speaker 1: It does. I'll show it to you. I know you
[56:04] Speaker 1: weren't listening the first time. It's okay, So Paul literally
[56:07] Speaker 1: says in Glatians three. In fact, I think we'll include
[56:09] Speaker 1: Verse twenty four says, now, before faith came, we were
[56:14] Speaker 1: imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith came, I'm sorry,
[56:18] Speaker 1: until faith would be revealed. Therefore, the law was our
[56:20] Speaker 1: disciplinarian until Christ came, so that we might be reckoned
[56:25] Speaker 1: as righteous by faith. That's that's a temporary clause until
[56:29] Speaker 1: in fact, some English translations, some English translations literally say
[56:33] Speaker 1: that he was our temporary schoolmaster.
[56:37] Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, so I kind of already explained to you, right,
[56:40] Speaker 4: Jesus came though, So this is the thing Paul says,
[56:42] Speaker 4: is what Jesus say it is.
[56:45] Speaker 1: That's the point. Yeah, they disagree. Yeah yeah, And.
[56:48] Speaker 4: At first glances they seem to be a contradiction. But
[56:51] Speaker 4: I feel like when you read with prior context, doesn't Okay, Well,
[56:58] Speaker 4: when you accept prior context, there really is not a contradiction.
[57:02] Speaker 1: Show me how it's not a contradiction. How is the
[57:03] Speaker 1: law temporary?
[57:05] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[57:06] Speaker 4: So word for word definition if you wanted today is
[57:10] Speaker 4: a contradiction.
[57:11] Speaker 1: Well, because words have meanings, it's a contradiction.
[57:13] Speaker 3: Yeah, they do, they do.
[57:14] Speaker 4: I wholeheartedly agree with you, But you have to understand, right,
[57:16] Speaker 4: people can use words, but they may not always mean
[57:19] Speaker 4: everything everywhere, for example.
[57:21] Speaker 1: Okay, Well, which, first of all, who's wrong? Is it
[57:23] Speaker 1: temporary or not?
[57:27] Speaker 3: Obviously not?
[57:28] Speaker 1: Okay, so it's not temporary. Okay, So now let's look
[57:30] Speaker 1: at the words of Paul. Which words in this translation
[57:33] Speaker 1: need changed? Who got what word wrong.
[57:39] Speaker 4: I wouldn't necessary. Wait, what do you mean?
[57:43] Speaker 1: But you're saying that Paul didn't mean it was temporary,
[57:46] Speaker 1: So what does he mean? Which words in here mean
[57:48] Speaker 1: that it's not temporary?
[57:48] Speaker 3: What does Paul mean in this context? Yeah? So let's see.
[57:52] Speaker 4: Now, before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under
[57:55] Speaker 4: the law until faith would be revealed.
[57:57] Speaker 3: Therefore, the law was our.
[57:58] Speaker 4: Disciplinarian and until Christ came, so that we might be
[58:01] Speaker 4: reckoned as righteous.
[58:03] Speaker 3: So you already gave prior verse.
[58:04] Speaker 4: I'll give you because the best I could do is
[58:06] Speaker 4: give you my understanding of it. Because, like I said,
[58:08] Speaker 4: if you go, you know, if you just look at
[58:10] Speaker 4: the words, right, I could see how it could be
[58:12] Speaker 4: a contradiction. But it is explained right. So could you
[58:16] Speaker 4: pull the verse back up?
[58:18] Speaker 1: Yeah? Sorry one second, I didn't know the Galatians three
[58:22] Speaker 1: twenty three and twenty four?
[58:25] Speaker 4: Yo, Bro, why can't I say any I'll say a
[58:28] Speaker 4: sentence and then I'm yapping. If I don't say anything,
[58:31] Speaker 4: then I sound defeated. You can't win with you people, like,
[58:34] Speaker 4: it's impossible to win with you people.
[58:36] Speaker 3: Literally.
[58:36] Speaker 4: If I feel like, if you just read the Bible,
[58:40] Speaker 4: not necessarily you.
[58:41] Speaker 3: But I would just like to say this real quick,
[58:43] Speaker 3: if you're okay with this, I feel like.
[58:44] Speaker 1: My audience has read the Bible.
[58:47] Speaker 3: Well.
[58:48] Speaker 4: I didn't finish what I was saying, man, I feel
[58:50] Speaker 4: like if you guys read the Bible with a willingness
[58:53] Speaker 4: to learn as opposed to having a free why are
[58:57] Speaker 4: you assuming you know my audience.
[58:58] Speaker 1: I don't think you do well.
[59:00] Speaker 4: I'm not saying I know everyone here. You know most
[59:02] Speaker 4: of my audience.
[59:04] Speaker 1: Most of my audience are ex Christians who have read
[59:06] Speaker 1: the Bible, which is why they're not Christians anymore.
[59:09] Speaker 4: I read the Bible and I'm still Christian.
[59:11] Speaker 1: It's weird that you didn't know the contradiction existed.
[59:15] Speaker 4: I know what you're referring to as a contradiction.
[59:19] Speaker 1: You can't seem to make it go away yet I'm
[59:21] Speaker 1: sure trying to figure out how it goes everything because
[59:25] Speaker 1: Paul literally said that the law was only until Jesus.
[59:29] Speaker 1: In fact, he says it's been abolished in Ephesians and
[59:32] Speaker 1: then later in Corinthians. He says to the Jews, I
[59:35] Speaker 1: became a Jew in order to gain Jews to those
[59:38] Speaker 1: under the law. I became as one under the law,
[59:41] Speaker 1: though I myself am not under the law.
[59:45] Speaker 3: Is that not? Okay?
[59:47] Speaker 1: So was Paul temporary? Yeah? He was Hebrew?
[59:53] Speaker 3: Okay, Well, anyway, never found that one work here.
[59:58] Speaker 4: I mean, like I'm saying, Jesus made it very clear
[1:00:02] Speaker 4: that the law had not been abolished, but then Paul
[1:00:04] Speaker 4: says has been abolished. That's a condiction best, Yeah, I mean,
[1:00:09] Speaker 4: like I was saying, I never said that this wasn't
[1:00:11] Speaker 4: a contradition. I'm just saying I feel like, sure, you
[1:00:13] Speaker 4: can call it a contradiction, but then when you look
[1:00:16] Speaker 4: into the meaning of what's considered to be the contradiction here,
[1:00:20] Speaker 4: it can kind of make a little bit more sense.
[1:00:21] Speaker 4: I mean, there's multiple angles we could attack it from,
[1:00:23] Speaker 4: but anything I say is going to be enough for
[1:00:25] Speaker 4: you guys. So I just put it like this, right
[1:00:27] Speaker 4: because I think y'all probably accept this. Jesus, we follow Jesus,
[1:00:31] Speaker 4: Jesus God. Jesus says something. Paul is one of Jesus's disciples.
[1:00:34] Speaker 4: This is him attempting to This is Paul's understanding of
[1:00:40] Speaker 4: the law in Jesus, that's his understanding. But Jesus already
[1:00:43] Speaker 4: told us and made it very clear how this works.
[1:00:46] Speaker 4: So I would recommend looking into what Jesus says, understanding
[1:00:50] Speaker 4: what he says, and then once you get that, you
[1:00:51] Speaker 4: could go and look at Paul and see what Paul
[1:00:53] Speaker 4: is saying and what he's believing. But you've already got.
[1:00:55] Speaker 1: The nothing is said. Fix the problem though.
[1:01:00] Speaker 3: That's the problem.
[1:01:01] Speaker 1: The problem is that one person says the law is
[1:01:04] Speaker 1: in effect and one says that it's not. It can't
[1:01:07] Speaker 1: be both one of them is wrong.
[1:01:09] Speaker 4: Okay, hold on, let's okay, let's go back to that
[1:01:12] Speaker 4: one verse, because I if I think you essentially want
[1:01:18] Speaker 4: me to try to explain this correct.
[1:01:20] Speaker 1: I want you to explain how it doesn't contradict.
[1:01:24] Speaker 4: Like I said, you can so you can say it's
[1:01:26] Speaker 4: a contradiction if you want, on this basis, but there
[1:01:30] Speaker 4: is a lot of evidence.
[1:01:31] Speaker 3: How is it not?
[1:01:32] Speaker 1: That's the question. How is it not a contradiction?
[1:01:35] Speaker 4: Because what essentially happened was you have the law. Jesus came.
[1:01:40] Speaker 4: Jesus didn't flat out just a ball of bothers the law,
[1:01:43] Speaker 4: but he re advised. I mean, I'm trying to find
[1:01:46] Speaker 4: a word that's not going to make everyone go insane,
[1:01:49] Speaker 4: because if you say the wrong word, thing, oh you're evil,
[1:01:53] Speaker 4: I guess he kind of rea. He explained the the soul.
[1:01:58] Speaker 3: Like back of the laws to people, if that makes sense.
[1:02:02] Speaker 4: He gave almost a read interpretation of it, and at.
[1:02:07] Speaker 1: First one was asking that though no one's asking about
[1:02:11] Speaker 1: whether or not Jesus reinterpreted the laws, we're trying to figure
[1:02:13] Speaker 1: out if permanent.
[1:02:15] Speaker 3: See, that's your issue here though, because you're not listening.
[1:02:18] Speaker 1: It's not my issue. My issues. You can't you can't focus.
[1:02:21] Speaker 1: So the question, I hands the question the question.
[1:02:25] Speaker 3: Okay, let me put it like this. I'll answer your question.
[1:02:27] Speaker 1: The question is whether or not the law was temporary
[1:02:30] Speaker 1: or permanent.
[1:02:31] Speaker 3: And I'm trying to to you, Okay, I already told
[1:02:34] Speaker 3: you that.
[1:02:35] Speaker 4: I if you've listened to anything I said in the beginning,
[1:02:37] Speaker 4: when Jesus came, he said that the law was not
[1:02:39] Speaker 4: He said that the law will not be abolished. And
[1:02:41] Speaker 4: you have to understand right under the premise that it is,
[1:02:44] Speaker 4: it would technically be classified as temporary due to the
[1:02:46] Speaker 4: fact that it will pass away when the new Heaven
[1:02:48] Speaker 4: and Jerusalem are established, which will happen. So I feel
[1:02:51] Speaker 4: like you're putting the guise of whether or not it
[1:02:53] Speaker 4: is temporary or this isn't I don't think it really applies.
[1:02:56] Speaker 3: Well, that's not true.
[1:02:57] Speaker 1: That's another contradiction because the Old Testament doesn't say that.
[1:03:00] Speaker 1: Only then you're assuming that it's going to be happening
[1:03:04] Speaker 1: according to what the New Testament says. The Old Testament disagrees.
[1:03:07] Speaker 4: Okay, so you're saying that, do you believe so? Do
[1:03:12] Speaker 4: you believe that the New Testament in the Old Testament
[1:03:15] Speaker 4: are just this contradictory. They don't have any ties to
[1:03:18] Speaker 4: each other.
[1:03:19] Speaker 1: I know, I think they contradict each other.
[1:03:21] Speaker 4: Okay, so they excuse me. That's the that's the thing
[1:03:25] Speaker 4: there too. Right, at face value, there are certain things
[1:03:28] Speaker 4: that may not make the most sense. But I feel
[1:03:30] Speaker 4: like in the context of law, I'm using the law
[1:03:33] Speaker 4: as an example here. Right, you say, Peter says this,
[1:03:36] Speaker 4: Jesus says this. Those things don't coincide. That's a contradiction
[1:03:40] Speaker 4: when we look at what Jesus says, Right, Jesus says
[1:03:43] Speaker 4: that the law will not be abolished.
[1:03:44] Speaker 3: He came to fulfill it, he says, right that he.
[1:03:47] Speaker 4: Gives I'm just going to actually pull up this specific
[1:03:50] Speaker 4: verse because I want to, like the entire point of
[1:03:54] Speaker 4: everything Jesus was saying, he if you just read like
[1:03:56] Speaker 4: a couple verses right after it kind of like I've
[1:03:59] Speaker 4: read all the every last word. Yeah, I mean, but
[1:04:02] Speaker 4: you're the first issue we had with your understanding of
[1:04:06] Speaker 4: it was when he said these commands. You interpreted that
[1:04:10] Speaker 4: as being the old Mosaic law, but he wasn't talking about.
[1:04:12] Speaker 1: Well, first of all, he was. But second of all,
[1:04:14] Speaker 1: first of all, you're now you're backtracking. First of all,
[1:04:16] Speaker 1: you agreed that the law wasn't temporary. Now you're changing
[1:04:20] Speaker 1: your mind.
[1:04:21] Speaker 4: I never said that. I never said that law at
[1:04:24] Speaker 4: least twice. Okay, So what I'm alright.
[1:04:32] Speaker 3: So let me.
[1:04:33] Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna make notes so you can't. We'll
[1:04:36] Speaker 1: try this again. And so Option number one, the law
[1:04:40] Speaker 1: is temporary. Option number two, I'm sorry, it's not temporary.
[1:04:44] Speaker 1: Option number two the law is temporary. Which one do
[1:04:46] Speaker 1: you agree with?
[1:04:51] Speaker 4: I would say, based on what is the law, it
[1:04:55] Speaker 4: will pass away when a new Heaven and Earth come,
[1:04:58] Speaker 4: So technically you can say it's temporary.
[1:05:00] Speaker 1: The question is more so okay, so you so you
[1:05:02] Speaker 1: think the law is temporary. Cool, We're going to mark that. Now,
[1:05:06] Speaker 1: when do you think it gets abolished.
[1:05:08] Speaker 4: Well, it's exactly and that's what I'm saying, right, So
[1:05:11] Speaker 4: I don't think that it was abolished in Jesus game, because,
[1:05:13] Speaker 4: like he said, ok right, he's not going to abolish
[1:05:15] Speaker 4: the law. He's coming to facility.
[1:05:17] Speaker 2: Correct.
[1:05:18] Speaker 1: Okay, I'm just writing it sown. So you agree with Jesus.
[1:05:23] Speaker 1: The law is temporary until heaven and Earth pass away. Yes,
[1:05:27] Speaker 1: I wrote it down. You can't go back on it now. Okay,
[1:05:30] Speaker 1: I'm gonna tuck this away. Okay. Now, the law is temporary,
[1:05:33] Speaker 1: which means it is still an effect at this very moment, correct, Yeah,
[1:05:41] Speaker 1: because Heaven and Earth has not passed away.
[1:05:44] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:05:45] Speaker 1: Okay. Now, so what that means is that Paul is wrong,
[1:05:50] Speaker 1: because Paul says, not only is he not bound by
[1:05:53] Speaker 1: the law, but the law was done away when Jesus died.
[1:06:00] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:06:00] Speaker 4: So, like I was saying, wait, hold on, and you
[1:06:05] Speaker 4: got to realize the verse that you're using for Jesus
[1:06:08] Speaker 4: in order for this to be a contradiction, Right, Jesus
[1:06:11] Speaker 4: says that when he came, he came to fulfill the law.
[1:06:13] Speaker 4: That's when he's still alive. That happens before he dies.
[1:06:15] Speaker 4: But Paul is saying after he died, then the law
[1:06:17] Speaker 4: is no longer. The law has been abolished.
[1:06:20] Speaker 3: Right.
[1:06:20] Speaker 4: So I mean, Paul, like I said, I already kind
[1:06:24] Speaker 4: of gave you this, right Paul, I just wholeheartedly believe
[1:06:27] Speaker 4: that that is his attempt to try to explain what
[1:06:31] Speaker 4: he thought Jesus was saying.
[1:06:33] Speaker 1: But was he right with Jesus?
[1:06:35] Speaker 4: I don't necessarily agree with him fully in that?
[1:06:38] Speaker 1: Okay, So Paul got something wrong.
[1:06:41] Speaker 4: I feel like Paul was a little off in his
[1:06:45] Speaker 4: explanation here in the specific verse.
[1:06:48] Speaker 1: But so what Paul should have said is the law
[1:06:50] Speaker 1: was a temporary schoolmaster until Heaven and Earth passed away.
[1:06:54] Speaker 4: I mean that that's quite literally what Jesus is saying,
[1:06:58] Speaker 4: and that verse is not that when right having the
[1:07:00] Speaker 4: earth pass away, the law pass away.
[1:07:01] Speaker 1: So then Paul and Jesus contradict each other about how
[1:07:05] Speaker 1: long the law is effect effect.
[1:07:06] Speaker 4: For did Jesus not say that the law will pass
[1:07:09] Speaker 4: away with having and on the earth pass away?
[1:07:11] Speaker 1: That's literally, that's literally what we were both agreeing to
[1:07:14] Speaker 1: right now, So do Paul and Jesus disagree about how
[1:07:18] Speaker 1: long the law isn't in effect?
[1:07:20] Speaker 4: For? Yeah, I say, when you read these two you know,
[1:07:23] Speaker 4: verses and you look at them. Yeah, you could definitely
[1:07:26] Speaker 4: derive that conclusion.
[1:07:28] Speaker 1: Okay, so is it true then that Paul and Jesus
[1:07:32] Speaker 1: contradict each other on the duration of the law.
[1:07:37] Speaker 4: I don't necessarily want to use the word contradiction, like
[1:07:39] Speaker 4: I was saying, you can have a contradiction.
[1:07:41] Speaker 1: What do you think a contradiction is?
[1:07:43] Speaker 4: No, because when you say the word contradiction, it kind
[1:07:46] Speaker 4: of has this connotation to it that, like, I don't know,
[1:07:49] Speaker 4: it's a very very negative connotation to it.
[1:07:51] Speaker 3: If that makes sense.
[1:07:52] Speaker 4: Sure here, okay, yeah, contradiction, but I don't think it
[1:07:56] Speaker 4: really takes away from the overall theological point.
[1:07:59] Speaker 1: We'll try this. The definition of contradiction is a combination
[1:08:02] Speaker 1: of statements, ideas, or features of a situation that are
[1:08:05] Speaker 1: opposed to one another. Meaning, if there are two statements
[1:08:08] Speaker 1: made about something and they're opposing statements, only one of
[1:08:14] Speaker 1: them can be true. That's what a contradiction is, or
[1:08:17] Speaker 1: they could both be false.
[1:08:19] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:08:19] Speaker 4: So if I already told you so.
[1:08:23] Speaker 1: If if the laws of Moses end in a contradiction
[1:08:28] Speaker 1: between Paul and Jesus, it's just a contradiction. That's not
[1:08:32] Speaker 1: how words work like. You don't have to like the
[1:08:34] Speaker 1: word contradiction, but that's what it is.
[1:08:37] Speaker 4: I mean, there are other ways you could define it
[1:08:38] Speaker 4: if like I said, if you want, you can say
[1:08:40] Speaker 4: it's a contradiction.
[1:08:41] Speaker 3: But there's other ways you could define How would you
[1:08:42] Speaker 3: define it?
[1:08:44] Speaker 4: I'd say that they had a disagreeance? Why, well, the
[1:08:50] Speaker 4: thing is Jesus is the teacher, he's teaching and Lauw is.
[1:08:54] Speaker 1: Sorry to interrupt you. Would you say that their statements disagree?
[1:09:01] Speaker 1: Is that what you would say? There's statements disagree with
[1:09:03] Speaker 1: each other? Yeah, okay. What do you call two statements
[1:09:07] Speaker 1: to disagree with each other?
[1:09:09] Speaker 3: Contradictory?
[1:09:11] Speaker 1: So it's a contradiction.
[1:09:12] Speaker 4: Like I said, you can say it's a contradition if
[1:09:14] Speaker 4: you want never say.
[1:09:15] Speaker 1: Okay, so we'll try this again, okay from the top.
[1:09:19] Speaker 1: One question just needs a yes, no, or maybe do
[1:09:22] Speaker 1: Paul in Jesus contradict each other on the duration of
[1:09:25] Speaker 1: the law.
[1:09:26] Speaker 3: If you want, yes, if you if you want.
[1:09:28] Speaker 1: To no, no, I want. I don't want you to
[1:09:30] Speaker 1: tell me what I think. Tell me the answer questions.
[1:09:33] Speaker 3: Tell you what I think.
[1:09:35] Speaker 4: Okay, So I'm gonna have to do a lot of
[1:09:38] Speaker 4: yapping it yes, it's a yes, no or maybe oh,
[1:09:41] Speaker 4: but not I have to answer it it yes or no.
[1:09:44] Speaker 1: Yes, no question. I asked you a yes or no question.
[1:09:47] Speaker 1: So we'll try this again. Do do Paul and Jesus
[1:09:51] Speaker 1: contradict each other on the duration of the law.
[1:09:58] Speaker 4: I don't really want to say, like, I mean, yeah,
[1:10:00] Speaker 4: you want to say the answers yeah, on the premises,
[1:10:04] Speaker 4: on the premises that you've given me without further context
[1:10:06] Speaker 4: from the Bible.
[1:10:07] Speaker 3: Yes.
[1:10:08] Speaker 1: The more you obfuscate, the more silly it looks to
[1:10:11] Speaker 1: the nearly three thousand characters.
[1:10:13] Speaker 3: That are watching these people, because you've got to be real.
[1:10:16] Speaker 4: Honestly, I've already learned no matter what I say, I
[1:10:18] Speaker 4: can't convince these people. Jesus could be in y'all face
[1:10:21] Speaker 4: talking to y'all and y'all still would say, no, you're
[1:10:23] Speaker 4: not real.
[1:10:23] Speaker 3: So it's pointless enough.
[1:10:25] Speaker 1: I just feel like anyone that I feel dishonest that
[1:10:28] Speaker 1: I didn't disclose this to you sooner. But like you're
[1:10:31] Speaker 1: looking at the screen and you're probably saying, shit, there's
[1:10:34] Speaker 1: six hundred people watching right now. There are currently I
[1:10:36] Speaker 1: don't care two thousand people watching on YouTube right now,
[1:10:39] Speaker 1: So that's beautiful. I say all that.
[1:10:41] Speaker 3: That's so beautiful.
[1:10:42] Speaker 1: I say all that to say that everything that you're
[1:10:44] Speaker 1: mentioning right now, all the like, all of your evasive
[1:10:47] Speaker 1: answers are going to be like immemorial on my YouTube
[1:10:52] Speaker 1: channel for like, that's great, man.
[1:10:53] Speaker 4: I don't care, because you got to realize I'm not
[1:10:55] Speaker 4: I'm imperfect. I'm not going to have everything right. But
[1:10:57] Speaker 4: I'm positive and I have faith that as I learn
[1:10:59] Speaker 4: and grow, because I'm only eighteen, but as I learn
[1:11:01] Speaker 4: and grow, I will come to greater conclusions. And even
[1:11:04] Speaker 4: at the age that I am now, I can very
[1:11:06] Speaker 4: much understand what the Bible says. I feel like any
[1:11:08] Speaker 4: person that has an open mind that genuinely wants to learn,
[1:11:11] Speaker 4: and if they put enough effort in time towards it,
[1:11:14] Speaker 4: they will come to the a similar conclusion I have,
[1:11:17] Speaker 4: or if not better, you know that's okay.
[1:11:19] Speaker 1: So I can guarantee I put in more study time
[1:11:22] Speaker 1: than you, and I came to the opposite conclusion.
[1:11:24] Speaker 4: And there are people who have PhDs in this and
[1:11:26] Speaker 4: disagree with you.
[1:11:27] Speaker 1: There are people who have PhDs in the study that
[1:11:30] Speaker 1: actually do agree with me. And I know this because
[1:11:33] Speaker 1: I have their books and I disagree with you that
[1:11:36] Speaker 1: I study just as much as you point. The people
[1:11:39] Speaker 1: who are labeled biblical scholars, I know them personally. I
[1:11:43] Speaker 1: went to school with them, I studied under them, I
[1:11:45] Speaker 1: have their books, all of them, and they largely agree
[1:11:47] Speaker 1: with me. In fact, most of the people that consider
[1:11:49] Speaker 1: themselves to Bibiblical scholars, unless you're like William Lane Craig,
[1:11:53] Speaker 1: they're more than happy to concede that the Bible has contradictions.
[1:11:58] Speaker 3: Yeah, so this study.
[1:12:00] Speaker 1: This study Bible right here points some of them out
[1:12:02] Speaker 1: to you.
[1:12:03] Speaker 3: Yeah. This is the thing though.
[1:12:04] Speaker 4: When we first had our conversation, you asked me whether
[1:12:07] Speaker 4: or not I believe that there were contradictions in the Bible.
[1:12:10] Speaker 4: And the answer I gave to you it would depend, right,
[1:12:13] Speaker 4: what are these sad contradictions?
[1:12:15] Speaker 3: Right?
[1:12:16] Speaker 4: And when we look into these sad contradictions, And then
[1:12:18] Speaker 4: you also ask what they mean when we look into
[1:12:21] Speaker 4: these sad contradictions, right, that are in the Bible.
[1:12:23] Speaker 3: I do not believe that they are.
[1:12:24] Speaker 4: Anything that is so significant that it will take away
[1:12:26] Speaker 4: from the overall theological point of the Bible.
[1:12:29] Speaker 1: I think one of the overall theological points of the
[1:12:31] Speaker 1: Bible is that the law was done away with and
[1:12:33] Speaker 1: you can be justified by only faith. And this is
[1:12:35] Speaker 1: something that doesn't actually seem to be an agreements with
[1:12:39] Speaker 1: the entirety of the Bible. The same thing with like
[1:12:41] Speaker 1: Hebrews chapter nine, verse twenty two, where it says that
[1:12:44] Speaker 1: the nonsensical claim that without the shedding of blood there's
[1:12:48] Speaker 1: no forgiveness of sins, which was patently false. According to
[1:12:51] Speaker 1: the old Tustament law, there was forgiveness of sins without
[1:12:54] Speaker 1: the shedding of blood.
[1:12:56] Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there were multiple, you know ways back
[1:12:59] Speaker 4: when and to be forgiven for your sins, But I
[1:13:01] Speaker 4: think most of the time they would use like, you know,
[1:13:04] Speaker 4: blood sacked animals, right, and then that's what that whole
[1:13:08] Speaker 4: blood aspect.
[1:13:09] Speaker 1: Is quite often. But that's the problem with hees. Hebrews
[1:13:11] Speaker 1: says without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness
[1:13:15] Speaker 1: of sins.
[1:13:16] Speaker 4: Okay, hold on, But my thing is what we get
[1:13:19] Speaker 4: from this is their sin. Everyone can sin, even outside
[1:13:24] Speaker 4: of the Israelites, right, Jenhoules can also sin because they
[1:13:27] Speaker 4: have God's moral law. How do we overcome sin? The
[1:13:31] Speaker 4: whole point of the Bible is through Jesus. It's faith
[1:13:33] Speaker 4: in him.
[1:13:34] Speaker 1: No, that's the whole point of the New towns. The
[1:13:36] Speaker 1: Old Testament disagree because you're hinging on the law.
[1:13:38] Speaker 4: But you do understand that sins still exists outside of
[1:13:41] Speaker 4: the law, and if.
[1:13:42] Speaker 1: You have sin, you need Jesus right the Old the
[1:13:45] Speaker 1: Old Testament disagrees.
[1:13:48] Speaker 4: It doesn't and we can. Actually I would love we
[1:13:50] Speaker 4: could get into that if you want. I actually would
[1:13:52] Speaker 4: love to get into that.
[1:13:52] Speaker 1: Hold on, I mean, listen, if you want to keep
[1:13:54] Speaker 1: getting roasted, I'm glad to roast you on it.
[1:13:57] Speaker 3: Yeah, roast me for sure.
[1:14:00] Speaker 1: So have you read Ezekiel? Have you read Ezekiel a
[1:14:06] Speaker 1: little bit? Okay, we're going to jump right into Ezekiel.
[1:14:09] Speaker 1: Before we do that the big one. Thank you for
[1:14:12] Speaker 1: the one hundred hours over Venmo. I really appreciate that. Says, well,
[1:14:16] Speaker 1: you won, here's a hundred. He's going into preacher mode.
[1:14:19] Speaker 1: They always do, Buddy, I appreciate this before of course
[1:14:22] Speaker 1: we have to.
[1:14:25] Speaker 2: It's all they got Jesus is the Bible.
[1:14:27] Speaker 4: People are gonna be very enthusiastic about it and try
[1:14:30] Speaker 4: to explain things I don't.
[1:14:32] Speaker 3: I know.
[1:14:33] Speaker 1: I love it when people who haven't really studied the
[1:14:34] Speaker 1: Bible explained it to me.
[1:14:35] Speaker 4: So in Ezekiel, it's crazy how we have but I
[1:14:39] Speaker 4: have a greater understanding of the actually logical point.
[1:14:41] Speaker 1: Actually you really don't, which is why you're That's why
[1:14:44] Speaker 1: you're getting steamed right now. You're getting absolutely you're getting
[1:14:48] Speaker 1: absolutely oven roasted. Right now. It's set to char royal,
[1:14:52] Speaker 1: and you're already you've already been seared about this.
[1:14:56] Speaker 3: When we both stand before Jesus, let's see.
[1:14:58] Speaker 1: Which one had a better understand Well, Jesus is death,
[1:15:01] Speaker 1: so I don't really care. So in the Book of Ezekiel,
[1:15:06] Speaker 1: we have a vision of the Messianic age where there
[1:15:10] Speaker 1: is somebody actually on the throne. There's a new Heaven,
[1:15:13] Speaker 1: new Earth, new Jerusalem. Have you read this part of Ezekiel,
[1:15:16] Speaker 1: It's like the whole last third of the book.
[1:15:19] Speaker 3: Oh no, I'm sorry why.
[1:15:20] Speaker 4: Okay, Before we even get into this, we have to
[1:15:23] Speaker 4: establish the point that we're trying to make, or are
[1:15:26] Speaker 4: the thing that we're even trying to argue. And my
[1:15:28] Speaker 4: thing is sin can exist outside of the Mosaic law.
[1:15:33] Speaker 3: That's my point.
[1:15:34] Speaker 1: No one's disagreeing. No one's disagreeing that you could sin
[1:15:37] Speaker 1: in various ways that weren't mentioned by the Mosaic law.
[1:15:40] Speaker 1: The Mosaic law doesn't cover every so there's no point
[1:15:43] Speaker 1: that's that's ever uttered. I'm helping you to understand that
[1:15:48] Speaker 1: you're just wrong again. I'm going to show you another
[1:15:50] Speaker 1: contradiction on what the same topic we've been talking about
[1:15:53] Speaker 1: the entire time, namely, that Jesus had to die to
[1:15:56] Speaker 1: take care of people's sins because, according to Ezekiel, during
[1:15:59] Speaker 1: the Messianic Age, there will still be actual burnt offerings,
[1:16:04] Speaker 1: grain offerings, and sin sacrifices. Would you like to see that?
[1:16:11] Speaker 4: So hold on, sorry, give me a second, because I'm
[1:16:13] Speaker 4: trying to kind of compute this so.
[1:16:15] Speaker 1: That you haven't wrote Ezekiel.
[1:16:16] Speaker 4: Okay, check, okay, cool, if you want to make that
[1:16:19] Speaker 4: assumption about me, Okay, So Jesus so everyone can sin,
[1:16:24] Speaker 4: that's the point I made. And then I said, it's
[1:16:27] Speaker 4: because everyone can sin that the world needs Jesus.
[1:16:30] Speaker 1: The world now needs Jesus. That's what I'm saying.
[1:16:33] Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
[1:16:34] Speaker 3: Now.
[1:16:34] Speaker 4: In opposition to this, you're saying that the world does
[1:16:36] Speaker 4: not need Jesus.
[1:16:37] Speaker 1: Not only does the world not need Jesus, the Bible,
[1:16:40] Speaker 1: the Old Testament, the prophets say the opposite says when
[1:16:43] Speaker 1: the Messiah comes that they'll be doing the same sin
[1:16:47] Speaker 1: sacrifices according to the Law of Moses as they had
[1:16:49] Speaker 1: been doing in the past. Doesn't say anything about the
[1:16:52] Speaker 1: Messiah dying for your sins.
[1:16:54] Speaker 4: Okay, what does Jesus say about that?
[1:16:56] Speaker 1: I'm I'm talking about Ezekiel. Pay attention.
[1:16:59] Speaker 4: Okay, but this is the thing though, but here, but
[1:17:02] Speaker 4: here's a stop.
[1:17:03] Speaker 1: Stop. I don't care what Jesus said, because he's not
[1:17:06] Speaker 1: the Messiah. This is where this is what you keep
[1:17:08] Speaker 1: getting wrong. Right, I'm showing you where the New Testament
[1:17:10] Speaker 1: and the Old Testament disagree, and you keep saying, well,
[1:17:13] Speaker 1: the New Testament says, I don't care what the New
[1:17:16] Speaker 1: Testament says because it disagrees with the Old Testament. That's
[1:17:19] Speaker 1: the whole point here. I'm showing you that the Old
[1:17:21] Speaker 1: Testament and the New Testament don't actually agree with each other.
[1:17:25] Speaker 1: That's the whole purpose here. Now, when it comes to
[1:17:27] Speaker 1: Jesus needs to die for your sins, that is in
[1:17:30] Speaker 1: disagreement with the Old Testament. It doesn't matter what Jesus said,
[1:17:34] Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what Paul said. They can say anything
[1:17:37] Speaker 1: you want him to say. I'm telling you that it's
[1:17:39] Speaker 1: a contradiction of what Ezekiel said, and specifically what God
[1:17:43] Speaker 1: said through Ezekiel.
[1:17:45] Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean we'll delve into that. Sure, I'm not
[1:17:47] Speaker 4: obliged to that, but I would also like to kind
[1:17:50] Speaker 4: of say, I mean, if there weren't some differences between
[1:17:52] Speaker 4: the two Testaments, then we wouldn't have an Old Testament
[1:17:55] Speaker 4: a New Testament.
[1:17:57] Speaker 2: Correct.
[1:17:58] Speaker 4: So my overall point that I'm trying to he is
[1:18:00] Speaker 4: sure the Old Testaments say certain things.
[1:18:02] Speaker 3: It says a lot.
[1:18:03] Speaker 4: Of things, but I feel like when Jesus came, he
[1:18:05] Speaker 4: better explained one of the meaning behind these things, and
[1:18:08] Speaker 4: first behind these things.
[1:18:09] Speaker 3: And I also trust him and believe in him.
[1:18:13] Speaker 4: I mean, if he is God right, which I wholeheartedly believe,
[1:18:16] Speaker 4: then everything he says is going to trump what you know,
[1:18:19] Speaker 4: priests who had some interpretation of the law say, I mean.
[1:18:24] Speaker 1: It would No, I don't. It would just be another contradiction.
[1:18:27] Speaker 1: It would be God contradicting himself, which is silly. And
[1:18:30] Speaker 1: he certainly can't be God because a logical contradiction that
[1:18:33] Speaker 1: I'm sure we don't have time for. I'm trying to
[1:18:35] Speaker 1: get to Ezekiel, would you like to read Ezekiel with me, yeah,
[1:18:38] Speaker 1: I'm sure. Okay. Do you know what happens in Ezekiel
[1:18:42] Speaker 1: forty and beyond?
[1:18:44] Speaker 3: No, okay.
[1:18:45] Speaker 1: So God gives Ezekiel a vision of the New Jerusalem
[1:18:48] Speaker 1: and the new Promised Land, and then he tells what's
[1:18:52] Speaker 1: going to happen. He says, the land's going to be reapportioned,
[1:18:56] Speaker 1: the Temple's going to be rebuilt, there's going to be
[1:18:58] Speaker 1: levitical priests that are established forever, and the prince is
[1:19:02] Speaker 1: finally going to come. There's going to be a prince
[1:19:04] Speaker 1: on the throne of Israel. And it gives this exceedingly
[1:19:09] Speaker 1: jubulant vision of the new Jerusalem. It's a fabulous verse,
[1:19:15] Speaker 1: which is why a lot of Ezekiel forty and beyond
[1:19:17] Speaker 1: actually ends up getting picked up in the Book of
[1:19:20] Speaker 1: Revelation because a book of Revelation thinks that the New
[1:19:22] Speaker 1: Jerusalem is still to come. So the Book of Revelation
[1:19:26] Speaker 1: in Ezekiel seemed to be an agreement that the New
[1:19:28] Speaker 1: Jerusalem is like the end stage, that's where everyone wants
[1:19:30] Speaker 1: to get to. But in the New Jerusalem, look what
[1:19:33] Speaker 1: it actually says about the prince who comes to rule
[1:19:37] Speaker 1: and reign and set un the throne, and to the
[1:19:39] Speaker 1: prince shall belong land on both sides of the Holy
[1:19:42] Speaker 1: District holding of the Holy City. So now we've got
[1:19:46] Speaker 1: like an actual prince in the actual land, not in
[1:19:48] Speaker 1: the mystical kingdom far away. And then if you keep reading,
[1:19:52] Speaker 1: he talks about the actual offerings. This is the offering
[1:19:55] Speaker 1: that you shall make one six of an Ephah from
[1:19:57] Speaker 1: each Homer of Wheat, one six of an Ephah from
[1:20:00] Speaker 1: Homer Barley. So we've got the grain offerings and so
[1:20:03] Speaker 1: on and so forth. And then he continues in the
[1:20:06] Speaker 1: same chapter talking about a sin offering that in fact
[1:20:10] Speaker 1: is going to be made by the Prince. The Prince
[1:20:12] Speaker 1: himself is going to preside over the sin offering. Let
[1:20:16] Speaker 1: me grab it real quick. That might be in the
[1:20:18] Speaker 1: next chapter. This shall be the obligation of the Prince
[1:20:22] Speaker 1: regarding the burnt offerings, grain offerings and drink offerings at
[1:20:26] Speaker 1: the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbath, all the
[1:20:29] Speaker 1: appointed festivals of the House of Israel. He shall provide
[1:20:32] Speaker 1: the purification offerings, the grain offerings, and the burnt offerings.
[1:20:35] Speaker 1: So in the New Jerusalem, the king himself will be
[1:20:40] Speaker 1: presiding over the various levitical offerings with the levite that's
[1:20:47] Speaker 1: not parsimonious with Jesus dying for anyone sins.
[1:20:55] Speaker 3: Okay. On, So.
[1:20:57] Speaker 4: You're saying that Ezekiel forty is describing a new heaven
[1:21:02] Speaker 4: and Earth, and then in that heaven and Earth there's
[1:21:05] Speaker 4: a temple.
[1:21:07] Speaker 1: The temple is on the earth. Yeah, the heaven and
[1:21:11] Speaker 1: earth is the sky in the land.
[1:21:15] Speaker 3: Okay.
[1:21:15] Speaker 4: So are you talking about the earth that they were
[1:21:19] Speaker 4: on present at that time?
[1:21:21] Speaker 1: Yes, the earth that you and I are on right now,
[1:21:23] Speaker 1: the earth that's going to be restored.
[1:21:24] Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's where Okay, great, So that's where's going
[1:21:28] Speaker 4: to be restored.
[1:21:30] Speaker 3: Okay.
[1:21:31] Speaker 4: So okay, let me. I gotta get the timeline right,
[1:21:36] Speaker 4: because timeline is very important.
[1:21:37] Speaker 1: I know, because you haven't heard Ezekiel.
[1:21:38] Speaker 4: I'm sure, I just I mean, cool, okay, great, But okay, this,
[1:21:44] Speaker 4: how about this? You're saying that in this specific verse
[1:21:49] Speaker 4: when it's talking about the new temple, are you saying
[1:21:51] Speaker 4: that this is talking about a new temple on heaven
[1:21:55] Speaker 4: and Earth that come when you know, after Jesus, right
[1:22:00] Speaker 4: after us, right, and then Earth comes I mean basically
[1:22:05] Speaker 4: at the end of you know, our time or whatever
[1:22:09] Speaker 4: are you talking about the new earth that comes?
[1:22:11] Speaker 1: Then this is a picture of the new Jerusalem, where
[1:22:17] Speaker 1: in fact the Prince will be and God will reside
[1:22:19] Speaker 1: among his people forever. That's Ezekiel forty three to nine.
[1:22:23] Speaker 3: Okay, hold on, he.
[1:22:27] Speaker 1: Says I will reside among them.
[1:22:28] Speaker 3: Forever, Ezekiel forty three nine.
[1:22:36] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:22:40] Speaker 4: When I search that up, I get. Now, let them
[1:22:41] Speaker 4: put away from me their prostitution and the funeral offerings
[1:22:44] Speaker 4: of their kings, and I will live among them forever.
[1:22:47] Speaker 3: Okay, I didn't remember.
[1:22:51] Speaker 4: I mean, I have to read this verse more because
[1:22:53] Speaker 4: I don't really have much of the full understanding of it.
[1:22:56] Speaker 4: What I'm essentially getting though, is I think because there
[1:23:01] Speaker 4: were multiple temples and they were rebuilt multiple times, I
[1:23:04] Speaker 4: think this is most likely just talking about a temple
[1:23:07] Speaker 4: at that time or to come within that time before Jesus,
[1:23:11] Speaker 4: where burnt offerings and things of that nature were still present.
[1:23:13] Speaker 1: Well, it certainly couldn't have fulfilled the vision then, because
[1:23:16] Speaker 1: that temple's gone.
[1:23:18] Speaker 2: What vision?
[1:23:19] Speaker 1: That can't be? This can't be referring to the Second
[1:23:24] Speaker 1: Temple because the Second Temple was destroyed.
[1:23:27] Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, so it was talking about Okay, Yeah, I
[1:23:30] Speaker 4: mean at first, but I can't really I'd have to look.
[1:23:33] Speaker 3: Into this more.
[1:23:34] Speaker 4: I don't really want to say anything too much because
[1:23:36] Speaker 4: I don't have much of an understanding of that book. Like,
[1:23:39] Speaker 4: like I said, I read some of it, but I
[1:23:41] Speaker 4: don't fully understand all of it. So yeah, I have
[1:23:44] Speaker 4: to read into that more.
[1:23:46] Speaker 1: Right, So, there's a huge contradiction in the Bible in
[1:23:49] Speaker 1: regards to the Love of Moses. That's literally just one,
[1:23:52] Speaker 1: and there are hundreds of contradictions in the Bible. I've
[1:23:56] Speaker 1: personally documented at this point about seventy of them.
[1:24:03] Speaker 4: Do you have like a list of those contradictions yep,
[1:24:07] Speaker 4: that you like of Okay, could you send that to me?
[1:24:10] Speaker 1: You have to pay for it.
[1:24:12] Speaker 3: I have to pay for it, you.
[1:24:13] Speaker 1: Have you got to be a member of the channel.
[1:24:15] Speaker 3: How okay? How much is it?
[1:24:18] Speaker 1: I think it's four ninety nine a month for month?
[1:24:22] Speaker 3: I mean, why do I have to pay for it? Though?
[1:24:24] Speaker 1: I mean, you could just read the Bible. I came
[1:24:27] Speaker 1: up with the contradiction.
[1:24:28] Speaker 4: I read it, but I don't think the contradiction that
[1:24:30] Speaker 4: you have. I would come to the same conclusion on them.
[1:24:32] Speaker 3: Matter.
[1:24:32] Speaker 4: If you're going to say something's a contradiction, right, and
[1:24:35] Speaker 4: then you're going to berat it around everyone, right, I
[1:24:38] Speaker 4: would assume that you wouldn't charge people money to have them.
[1:24:41] Speaker 1: No, I've got a whole deconstruction cheat sheet. It's a
[1:24:45] Speaker 1: whole cheat sheet and my members get access toe.
[1:24:48] Speaker 4: No wait, hold on, so then why would I like
[1:24:52] Speaker 4: accept any of this that you're saying, Because I'm positive
[1:24:55] Speaker 4: that if you, okay, give me one contradiction, right, like,
[1:24:58] Speaker 4: just text me one or two, right, I look into
[1:25:01] Speaker 4: them and then I'll talk to you again, and I'm
[1:25:02] Speaker 4: pretty sure you would to shine more light on them.
[1:25:05] Speaker 3: If that's okay.
[1:25:06] Speaker 1: I don't think he actually can shine more light on
[1:25:08] Speaker 1: So all the contradictions that are on my spreadsheet not
[1:25:10] Speaker 1: only have I verified myself, but I've also read all
[1:25:13] Speaker 1: the dumb apologetic websites about them, and I know that
[1:25:16] Speaker 1: they don't have good explanations, which is the only thing
[1:25:19] Speaker 1: you'll bring up. You're gonna type of contradiction in the
[1:25:21] Speaker 1: Google and then you're gonna go to apologeticspress dot org
[1:25:25] Speaker 1: or to Calm and you're gonna say, oh my gosh,
[1:25:27] Speaker 1: these look like really good solutions. And then you're gonna
[1:25:29] Speaker 1: come back and say, listen, to what karm karm dot
[1:25:32] Speaker 1: com said, And I'm gonna and then I'm gonna have
[1:25:34] Speaker 1: to explain to you why Karm was wrong.
[1:25:38] Speaker 3: Yo, Bro, I'm not gonna lie. I just wanted the contradictions. Bro,
[1:25:41] Speaker 3: you got to realize this is in my faith right
[1:25:42] Speaker 3: in my movie.
[1:25:43] Speaker 1: And you can get them, I know, huh, And you
[1:25:46] Speaker 1: can get them, but I.
[1:25:49] Speaker 4: Don't want to have to pay money for them. I
[1:25:51] Speaker 4: just feel like that it.
[1:25:52] Speaker 1: Sounds like your problem. No, but I paid a great
[1:25:55] Speaker 1: deal of money to obtain the biblical knowledge.
[1:25:57] Speaker 3: That I have before. Isn't that kind of weird?
[1:26:01] Speaker 1: You don't have to pay the money to read the Bible.
[1:26:03] Speaker 1: You have to pay money to get the proprietary work
[1:26:05] Speaker 1: that I've done.
[1:26:07] Speaker 3: But yeah, so I can read the Bible. I've read
[1:26:08] Speaker 3: the Bible.
[1:26:09] Speaker 4: And like I was saying, sure, there is very good
[1:26:11] Speaker 4: that can be considered contradictions, but I think I have
[1:26:13] Speaker 4: an understanding of those things. But you're saying you have
[1:26:15] Speaker 4: seventy more contraditions, which you're essentially claiming esoteric knowledge, which
[1:26:19] Speaker 4: you're saying people need to Then.
[1:26:21] Speaker 1: I am not claiming knowledge.
[1:26:23] Speaker 4: That's essentially what you're doing. I feel like you're utilizing.
[1:26:25] Speaker 1: I don't think you know what the word esoteric means.
[1:26:29] Speaker 3: What does it mean?
[1:26:30] Speaker 1: It certainly doesn't mean what you're referring to. Esoteric means
[1:26:35] Speaker 1: esoteric knowledge means ancient knowledge that is typically hidden or veiled.
[1:26:41] Speaker 4: In the sense of hidden, veiled knowledge, just hidden behind
[1:26:44] Speaker 4: the paywall.
[1:26:45] Speaker 3: I have to pay four ninety nine for it.
[1:26:46] Speaker 1: Esoteric is not modern veiled.
[1:26:50] Speaker 4: And actually, when I search up the word definition, it
[1:26:52] Speaker 4: says intended for or likely to be understood by a
[1:26:55] Speaker 4: small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.
[1:26:57] Speaker 4: Nowhere in there doesn't say anything about timeframes.
[1:27:01] Speaker 1: Let me check. I got it wrong. I got it wrong. Yeah,
[1:27:06] Speaker 1: intended for or likely to be understood by only a
[1:27:08] Speaker 1: small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.
[1:27:12] Speaker 1: You could be right. I'll concede. Okay, my personal definition
[1:27:17] Speaker 1: was probably wrong.
[1:27:19] Speaker 3: And this is the thing that I also like to say.
[1:27:20] Speaker 4: Anyone on here who's like, oh, you're embarrassing years of
[1:27:23] Speaker 4: you don't know what you're talking about, text me. I'll
[1:27:25] Speaker 4: have a comment in every single one of you, because
[1:27:28] Speaker 4: this is the thing. I just don't feel comfortable talking
[1:27:31] Speaker 4: to you here, because if, like, once I start actually
[1:27:33] Speaker 4: talking and really delving into stuff. You're either gonna shut
[1:27:36] Speaker 4: me down and then if I don't stop talking, you're
[1:27:37] Speaker 4: gonna kick in your mute. So I can't really have
[1:27:39] Speaker 4: a genuine conversation with you.
[1:27:43] Speaker 3: Huh.
[1:27:44] Speaker 1: I haven't kicked you or muted you.
[1:27:46] Speaker 3: No, I'm not.
[1:27:46] Speaker 4: I said I think you would because if I I mean,
[1:27:49] Speaker 4: let's be quite frank here, if I were.
[1:27:52] Speaker 1: What are you talking to you?
[1:27:55] Speaker 3: No, I'm talking to you.
[1:27:56] Speaker 1: I'm saying, Oh, you've been holding yourself back right now. Yes,
[1:28:01] Speaker 1: I can't handle your full power. Okay, I want to
[1:28:08] Speaker 1: see an easy contradiction that you can't refuse.
[1:28:12] Speaker 3: Okay, hold on.
[1:28:13] Speaker 4: I just wanted to say, because like, this is kind
[1:28:15] Speaker 4: of the point I've been trying to make.
[1:28:16] Speaker 3: It is happening as I'm trying to make the point.
[1:28:18] Speaker 4: I feel like if when I really try to explain
[1:28:22] Speaker 4: things and talk about stuff, people aren't going to be
[1:28:25] Speaker 4: receptive of it. So I just kind of limited myself.
[1:28:28] Speaker 4: And I'm more so in Originally when I came into this,
[1:28:32] Speaker 4: it was Okay, I wanted to talk to you, have
[1:28:34] Speaker 4: an actual conversation, shed light on things, explain things. You
[1:28:38] Speaker 4: explain your stance. I explain my stance. Sure, we may
[1:28:40] Speaker 4: have disagreeances, but it's more so became. Okay, you make
[1:28:44] Speaker 4: a claim, I have to not attempt to debunk your
[1:28:46] Speaker 4: claim right in a short amount of time. So my
[1:28:49] Speaker 4: point is, if anyone on here right feels that they
[1:28:53] Speaker 4: have contradictions, there's some kind of issue with the Bible. Right,
[1:28:56] Speaker 4: if you want, you can text me.
[1:28:59] Speaker 3: I'll be happy.
[1:29:00] Speaker 1: No one's texting Arnav. Just pay attention. You're talking to me.
[1:29:04] Speaker 1: Don't worry about what the guests are up to. None
[1:29:05] Speaker 1: of my guests are texting you. So I'm going to
[1:29:08] Speaker 1: show you needsy one that doesn't require any esoteric doesn't
[1:29:12] Speaker 1: require any esoteric knowledge. Okay. So when Jesus was betrayed
[1:29:16] Speaker 1: for thirty pieces of silver, it says, then was fulfilled
[1:29:20] Speaker 1: what had been spoken through the prophet Jeremiah. And then
[1:29:23] Speaker 1: he quotes Jeremiah, and the quotation says, and they took
[1:29:26] Speaker 1: thirty pieces of silver the price of the one on
[1:29:29] Speaker 1: whom a price had been set, on whom some of
[1:29:31] Speaker 1: the people of Israel had set a price, so for
[1:29:34] Speaker 1: so so on and so forth. Okay, okay, so yeah,
[1:29:38] Speaker 1: So clearly Matthew was attributing this quote to Jeremiah. Can
[1:29:43] Speaker 1: you find that quote Jeremiah for me?
[1:29:45] Speaker 3: Give me on a second.
[1:29:47] Speaker 4: As I'm doing that, like I was saying, when I
[1:29:49] Speaker 4: started talking a little bit more than what's comfortable, then
[1:29:53] Speaker 4: I just get shut down, which is essentially what just happened.
[1:29:56] Speaker 1: I mean, when you go into preach mode.
[1:29:58] Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah see. And that's the thing.
[1:30:00] Speaker 4: How are you going to make claims about peoples?
[1:30:04] Speaker 1: The reality is you get shut down because you're doing
[1:30:06] Speaker 1: medical commentary. No one cares about your medic commentary.
[1:30:12] Speaker 4: I feel like if you want to make claims in
[1:30:15] Speaker 4: attempt to debump people's faith, then you should probably give
[1:30:18] Speaker 4: them an ear, as opposed to just saying a thing
[1:30:21] Speaker 4: I give you.
[1:30:22] Speaker 1: I'd give an ear to you showing me why I'm wrong.
[1:30:25] Speaker 1: I'm not going to give you your an ear. To
[1:30:27] Speaker 1: give my ear to you doing medical commentary. Well, I
[1:30:30] Speaker 1: don't have room for a medical commentary. Mary's up here.
[1:30:34] Speaker 3: Huh.
[1:30:34] Speaker 1: I said, we don't have room for medic commentary. Marys
[1:30:37] Speaker 1: up here. So anyways, the quote can you find this
[1:30:44] Speaker 1: quote in Jeremiah for me?
[1:30:46] Speaker 3: Uh? Fact, that was quote.
[1:30:48] Speaker 1: I'll send you a galaxy if you can. The quote
[1:30:51] Speaker 1: that Matthew is saying in chapter twenty seven comes from
[1:30:54] Speaker 1: Jeremiah Matthew twenty seven to nine.
[1:31:07] Speaker 4: Okay, then twenty seven nine. Excuse me, it is against
[1:31:15] Speaker 4: the I'm gonna read from six, is that?
[1:31:17] Speaker 3: Okay?
[1:31:18] Speaker 4: Yeah, because I'm trying to see all right. The chief
[1:31:20] Speaker 4: prese picked up the coins and said, it is against
[1:31:22] Speaker 4: the law to put this into the treasury since it
[1:31:24] Speaker 4: is blood money. So they decided to use the money
[1:31:27] Speaker 4: to buy the potters field as a burial place for foreigners.
[1:31:29] Speaker 4: That is why it has been caught the field of
[1:31:31] Speaker 4: blood to this day. Then that was then that what
[1:31:35] Speaker 4: was spoken by Jeremiah, the prophet was fulfilled. So Jeremiah
[1:31:39] Speaker 4: said that there's a prophecy that of Oh, you want
[1:31:47] Speaker 4: me to find a prophecy in the book of Jeremiah.
[1:31:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, So it says here there's a quotation, right, and
[1:31:52] Speaker 1: the quotation says it comes from Jeremiah. They took thirty
[1:31:56] Speaker 1: pieces of silver, the price on one whom, sorry, the
[1:32:00] Speaker 1: price of the one on whom a price had been set,
[1:32:03] Speaker 1: and so on and so forth. That's a quotation that
[1:32:05] Speaker 1: he says comes from Jeremiah. Can you find that for me?
[1:32:08] Speaker 3: Okay? I give me a second.
[1:32:36] Speaker 4: Uh, I mean I guess I kind of have to
[1:32:40] Speaker 4: scour the entire book or do internet orches, wouldn't I?
[1:32:45] Speaker 3: In order to find that?
[1:32:46] Speaker 1: What's your Bible cross Freshman say, hmm, what's your Bible
[1:32:52] Speaker 1: cross reference?
[1:32:53] Speaker 3: Say?
[1:32:53] Speaker 1: Where does it say it is? You're on the internet, right,
[1:32:56] Speaker 1: should have a cross reference? Where does it say it
[1:32:59] Speaker 1: comes from?
[1:33:00] Speaker 3: A cross reference?
[1:33:01] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[1:33:02] Speaker 3: Like from what side? What do you mean by that?
[1:33:04] Speaker 1: Do you mean like you know what references?
[1:33:07] Speaker 3: No?
[1:33:07] Speaker 4: I know what it is, but I'm like, how I'm
[1:33:08] Speaker 4: going to have a cross reference? You just told me
[1:33:10] Speaker 4: to find a verse quotation here?
[1:33:12] Speaker 3: Like?
[1:33:12] Speaker 1: Can you can you see my screen right now?
[1:33:15] Speaker 3: Yes?
[1:33:16] Speaker 4: I can see your screen?
[1:33:16] Speaker 3: Okay?
[1:33:17] Speaker 1: Do you see these little letters, these footnotes? These are
[1:33:21] Speaker 1: cross references.
[1:33:23] Speaker 4: I don't have those, and typically you have to.
[1:33:25] Speaker 1: Are you on bibble Gateway?
[1:33:27] Speaker 3: I wasn't. Hold on bubble.
[1:33:29] Speaker 1: Gateway will include them if if it doesn't include them
[1:33:32] Speaker 1: by default, there is an option here you can click
[1:33:35] Speaker 1: the options and make sure cross references are attached.
[1:33:39] Speaker 4: Sorry, I wasn't looking at your screaming you did that?
[1:33:42] Speaker 4: Go to settings and then cross references. Okay, And where
[1:33:48] Speaker 4: am I supposed to find a cross reference?
[1:33:50] Speaker 3: Like? What?
[1:33:51] Speaker 4: Because when I look at nine. I don't see that
[1:33:54] Speaker 4: literally everyone, Yeah, I think cross reference Matthew.
[1:34:01] Speaker 3: Okay at price?
[1:34:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, where does it say that quote came from?
[1:34:07] Speaker 3: Why am I not saying this?
[1:34:08] Speaker 2: Am I not wrong?
[1:34:11] Speaker 1: I'll give you a hint. It's not Jeremiah.
[1:34:13] Speaker 3: What's okay? I don't have that.
[1:34:21] Speaker 4: Cross reference at the price point. What version of the
[1:34:24] Speaker 4: Bible are you using for the NRSV oh New Revised
[1:34:29] Speaker 4: Standard version?
[1:34:30] Speaker 3: That one?
[1:34:31] Speaker 4: Okay, there's an Angelesized Catholic updated edition.
[1:34:45] Speaker 3: Does that work? Okay? Do you have does it? Like?
[1:35:00] Speaker 4: Could you just click on the point because I'm yep.
[1:35:03] Speaker 1: It's a quotation from Zachariah eleven not true?
[1:35:06] Speaker 4: Yeah, Zacharia eleven twelve. Yeah, then side of them. If
[1:35:11] Speaker 4: it seems right to you, give me my wages.
[1:35:13] Speaker 3: But if not, keep them so.
[1:35:16] Speaker 4: And then the lawyer said to me, throw it into
[1:35:18] Speaker 4: the treasury, the slurly price of which I was valued.
[1:35:21] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:35:22] Speaker 1: It actually reads much closer if you read it in
[1:35:24] Speaker 1: the Greek. The New Testament authors we're reading it from
[1:35:27] Speaker 1: the Greek, not the Hebrew. Yeah, okay, So what that
[1:35:33] Speaker 1: means is that Matthew goofed oops got the wrong guy.
[1:35:37] Speaker 1: Contradiction m.
[1:35:43] Speaker 3: Okay.
[1:35:44] Speaker 4: So so Matthew just used the wrong name here, but
[1:35:48] Speaker 4: it still happened.
[1:35:50] Speaker 1: No, Actually, the prophecy of Zachariah chapter eleven had nothing
[1:35:56] Speaker 1: to do with Jesus being portrayed for thirty pieces of silver,
[1:35:59] Speaker 1: which is the other problem. Not only is it from
[1:36:02] Speaker 1: the wrong person, it doesn't even mean what he thinks
[1:36:04] Speaker 1: it is.
[1:36:10] Speaker 4: Okay, so that's one of your So give me the
[1:36:12] Speaker 4: summary of this contradiction. I just want to make sure
[1:36:15] Speaker 4: I have the right thought process about this, like I
[1:36:17] Speaker 4: actually understand what you're saying here.
[1:36:19] Speaker 1: Well, there's two problems. First, it says that a person
[1:36:22] Speaker 1: said the quote who didn't say the quote. A different
[1:36:24] Speaker 1: person said the quote. That's the first problem, okay. The
[1:36:26] Speaker 1: second problem is that it says that it was a prophecy,
[1:36:30] Speaker 1: namely a prophecy about Jesus being betrayed for thirty pieces
[1:36:32] Speaker 1: of silver. But if you read zachari chapter eleven, it's
[1:36:35] Speaker 1: not a prophecy about the Messiah, certainly not a prophecy
[1:36:38] Speaker 1: about the Messiah being betrayed for thirty pieces of silver.
[1:36:41] Speaker 1: So it's not even closely related. And there's actually a
[1:36:44] Speaker 1: third contradiction, which is who actually paid the money for
[1:36:49] Speaker 1: the field, because in the Book of Acts and in
[1:36:52] Speaker 1: the Book of Matthew they disagree. In one book it
[1:36:54] Speaker 1: says that the Pharisees paid the money for the field
[1:36:58] Speaker 1: of blood, and in the other it says that Judas did.
[1:37:03] Speaker 3: Wow.
[1:37:04] Speaker 1: Okay, those are like three contradictions all in one passage.
[1:37:08] Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, thank you.
[1:37:10] Speaker 4: I'll read into that more and if I ever have
[1:37:12] Speaker 4: like an answer or something for that, then I'll propose it.
[1:37:15] Speaker 3: To you, all right.
[1:37:15] Speaker 1: And then one more thing. My buddy Jeff is here.
[1:37:17] Speaker 1: He said he had a question for you, and it
[1:37:19] Speaker 1: brings up a good opportunity because I have to use
[1:37:21] Speaker 1: the restroom real quick. I apologize, So I'm going to
[1:37:24] Speaker 1: hand you over the Jeff for just a little a
[1:37:27] Speaker 1: few minutes, okay.
[1:37:29] Speaker 2: Okay, Hey, Arnov.
[1:37:33] Speaker 7: So the word contradiction has been said a lot, and
[1:37:38] Speaker 7: for me, like I just think if if you say
[1:37:42] Speaker 7: two opposite sentences, not opposing sentences, but opposite sentence. If
[1:37:47] Speaker 7: I said, right now, it's raining, and then I say
[1:37:50] Speaker 7: it's not raining, that's a contradiction, right.
[1:37:59] Speaker 4: I guess it would kind of refer to what time
[1:38:01] Speaker 4: period you're talking.
[1:38:02] Speaker 7: About just right now, in this very moment. I go
[1:38:05] Speaker 7: simultaneously say it's raining and it's not raining.
[1:38:09] Speaker 4: If you're talking about this specific time right now, that
[1:38:10] Speaker 4: would be a contradiction.
[1:38:12] Speaker 7: Okay, cool, cool, so right now in this very.
[1:38:16] Speaker 3: Sorry if you're okay.
[1:38:18] Speaker 4: But even then though that I feel like you kind
[1:38:23] Speaker 4: of need to, uh, in order for me to understand
[1:38:26] Speaker 4: what you're saying, I have to use context there.
[1:38:29] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:38:29] Speaker 7: So like if I'm if I'm in the same location
[1:38:31] Speaker 7: right I'm standing outside, and I say it's raining and
[1:38:34] Speaker 7: it's not raining in the spot that I'm in at
[1:38:36] Speaker 7: the time, a contradiction, right exactly, Because I say simultaneously
[1:38:42] Speaker 7: that I'm holding an iPhone and then I'm not holding
[1:38:45] Speaker 7: an iPhone. That's a contradiction, right yeah, okay, so right now,
[1:38:51] Speaker 7: And this was the thing that jumped out at me
[1:38:54] Speaker 7: when when Justin went through it with you. If I
[1:38:56] Speaker 7: was to say, right now, based on the two point
[1:39:00] Speaker 7: arts of the Bible, which I assume you think is
[1:39:03] Speaker 7: true across the board, the law is in effect right
[1:39:08] Speaker 7: now and it is not an effect right now, would
[1:39:13] Speaker 7: that be a contradiction. I mean, yeah, so according to
[1:39:21] Speaker 7: one part of the Bible, based on your conversation with Justin,
[1:39:26] Speaker 7: right now today July seventeenth, twenty twenty five, on the
[1:39:30] Speaker 7: entire planet, the law is in effect.
[1:39:33] Speaker 4: Right, I mean Jesus has a.
[1:39:39] Speaker 3: Law that's in effect for everyone.
[1:39:41] Speaker 7: Well, no, the law that he was referring to when
[1:39:44] Speaker 7: he said until heaven and Earth pass away, the law
[1:39:47] Speaker 7: will not be abolished. So that means that law you
[1:39:50] Speaker 7: agreed is in effect today. July seventeen, twenty twenty five.
[1:39:58] Speaker 7: I feel like when you said, let's just remember that
[1:40:01] Speaker 7: heaven and earth thorne.
[1:40:02] Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, Actually when you say the law, because I mean,
[1:40:05] Speaker 4: like I get the thought. What's it the thought exercise
[1:40:10] Speaker 4: you're trying to do here? Like, obviously it makes sense.
[1:40:13] Speaker 3: I can see where you're coming from.
[1:40:14] Speaker 4: But I feel like when you just kind of limit
[1:40:16] Speaker 4: it down to something like as black and white as this,
[1:40:19] Speaker 4: you miss.
[1:40:19] Speaker 7: A lot of stuff. What is the black and white
[1:40:22] Speaker 7: that I'm limiting it to?
[1:40:23] Speaker 4: So you're essentially just saying, there's a law, is it
[1:40:28] Speaker 4: in effect here? Is it non effect here? But then
[1:40:31] Speaker 4: the entire Bible.
[1:40:32] Speaker 3: Is saying this law was only for these people.
[1:40:36] Speaker 4: There's this law consists of these like one hundred plus
[1:40:40] Speaker 4: I mean three hundred.
[1:40:41] Speaker 3: I don't even know how many laws are thirteen.
[1:40:44] Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred thirteen laws or whatever. Then we have
[1:40:48] Speaker 4: another you know, book from the Bible that goes on
[1:40:51] Speaker 4: to say, Okay, well you don't have to do this
[1:40:53] Speaker 4: stuff from this law anymore. But it hasn't been abolished.
[1:40:59] Speaker 4: It's it's it's a little more complex than you know.
[1:41:05] Speaker 4: Just okay, is it in fact?
[1:41:06] Speaker 3: Is it not? In effect?
[1:41:07] Speaker 2: What it means to not have to do the stuff?
[1:41:10] Speaker 7: What I would think is that it is abolished, right
[1:41:12] Speaker 7: like if a law, if I don't have to follow
[1:41:15] Speaker 7: the law, that would means the laws of abolished.
[1:41:17] Speaker 4: Okay, I think, okay, I see where the issue could be.
[1:41:19] Speaker 4: Maybe it's about how we're defining the law. So when
[1:41:21] Speaker 4: you say law, are you talking about all one hundred
[1:41:23] Speaker 4: thirteen laws?
[1:41:24] Speaker 7: You said, well, I'm talking about what Jesus was referring
[1:41:28] Speaker 7: to in Matthew five seventeen when he says the law
[1:41:30] Speaker 7: or the prophets, not referring to any new law. He's saying,
[1:41:34] Speaker 7: I have not come to abolish the law or the prophets,
[1:41:38] Speaker 7: which is the mosaic law six hundred and thirteen laws, yes,
[1:41:41] Speaker 7: and the profits all the prophecies and all of their authority,
[1:41:45] Speaker 7: and all of their correctness. He hasn't come to abolish
[1:41:48] Speaker 7: any of that. Okay, that's what he was referring to.
[1:41:51] Speaker 4: Okay, what does he mean by when he says he
[1:41:53] Speaker 4: came to fulfill it?
[1:41:57] Speaker 2: Let's talk about the first prong first.
[1:42:00] Speaker 4: Well, the thing is it's not That's the other thing
[1:42:02] Speaker 4: I was saying too.
[1:42:02] Speaker 7: When you're like, we can talk about fulfilled, I want to.
[1:42:05] Speaker 4: I can't really answer this until we include.
[1:42:07] Speaker 2: The hold on. Well, here's the thing.
[1:42:09] Speaker 7: If you say abolish means he's not come to do
[1:42:11] Speaker 7: away with and then you say, but fulfilled means he's
[1:42:14] Speaker 7: coming to do away with it, then that's another contradition.
[1:42:16] Speaker 7: So I want to get.
[1:42:17] Speaker 3: Said anything like that.
[1:42:18] Speaker 7: I'm just knowing why hold on, hold on, hold on,
[1:42:21] Speaker 7: Arna's That's why I said, if okay, take a breath.
[1:42:26] Speaker 7: I want to get clear what abolish means first.
[1:42:30] Speaker 4: I like I was saying, So, I think in order
[1:42:33] Speaker 4: to understand what he because, abolished right obviously.
[1:42:36] Speaker 3: At first glance, just such a very definition.
[1:42:39] Speaker 4: Actually, maybe can we go to that original language and
[1:42:43] Speaker 4: see what it says here? Because abolish to translate this,
[1:42:47] Speaker 4: but this word could most likely have a meaning that
[1:42:52] Speaker 4: isn't one hundred percent encompass by the way.
[1:42:54] Speaker 2: To abolish we can go to the Greek that's fine.
[1:42:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, great's not going to save you here all none.
[1:43:01] Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, I mean I just want to
[1:43:03] Speaker 4: get full context.
[1:43:04] Speaker 3: That's listen.
[1:43:05] Speaker 4: I don't understand why it's such an issue. When you
[1:43:08] Speaker 4: got to propose something to me, I said, okay, I
[1:43:10] Speaker 4: want to read it or not.
[1:43:13] Speaker 7: Let me tell you something. Justin is very nice. I
[1:43:16] Speaker 7: am not right, like I don't like snowflakes. He did
[1:43:19] Speaker 7: not say we're not going to do it. He's just
[1:43:21] Speaker 7: telling you. It's not going to say you.
[1:43:22] Speaker 3: I never said. He wasn't said no.
[1:43:25] Speaker 2: That is what you're saying. Calmed down, Calm down again.
[1:43:27] Speaker 7: I think I don't know. Actually, just look, I want
[1:43:31] Speaker 7: you to stop talking for a second because you're you're
[1:43:35] Speaker 7: getting this nervous thing and it's starting to nervous thing.
[1:43:38] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:43:39] Speaker 7: The nervous thing is when you talk while other people
[1:43:41] Speaker 7: are talking. Stop doing that.
[1:43:43] Speaker 3: You've talked over you. Sorry you nervous?
[1:43:45] Speaker 4: No to how am I nervous if I talk over you?
[1:43:49] Speaker 7: I haven't talked over you. Now listen to listen. You're
[1:43:53] Speaker 7: doing it again. You're doing it right now. So nobody
[1:43:57] Speaker 7: said we're not going to go through it. Justin is
[1:43:59] Speaker 7: telling when you that the Greek is not going to
[1:44:01] Speaker 7: help you.
[1:44:03] Speaker 4: And I never and this is all I said to
[1:44:05] Speaker 4: that was simply, why is it an issue? And I
[1:44:08] Speaker 4: wasn't even actually really talking to him, but why is
[1:44:12] Speaker 4: it an issue? Because it seems like every time you
[1:44:14] Speaker 4: guys make a point and then I say, okay, well
[1:44:16] Speaker 4: can we read this or can we take this into
[1:44:19] Speaker 4: account with it, you guys seem to say I'm either
[1:44:21] Speaker 4: one running or just yapping, or I'm missing that. Justin
[1:44:26] Speaker 4: has said that I'm missing the point when I do
[1:44:29] Speaker 4: say things like that.
[1:44:30] Speaker 7: The only thing he said in this moment was that
[1:44:32] Speaker 7: it's not going to help you. I have the word
[1:44:34] Speaker 7: in front of it. Do you know what that means?
[1:44:37] Speaker 4: Okay, let's look into how do you spell?
[1:44:41] Speaker 7: Well, it's wait wait wait, wait time, I'll put it on.
[1:44:46] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's in Greek.
[1:44:48] Speaker 7: And you can just instead of taking my word for it,
[1:44:51] Speaker 7: you could just go to any of the importances. Okay,
[1:44:59] Speaker 7: so me means to destroy, to dissolve, to overthrow, follow,
[1:45:04] Speaker 7: and I would take it, yeah, and I would take
[1:45:08] Speaker 7: those to these sitonends.
[1:45:10] Speaker 3: M yeah, yeah, like like this is the thing I said.
[1:45:14] Speaker 4: I just I want to get contact with Isaiah here
[1:45:16] Speaker 4: and just start saying a whole bunch of random stuff.
[1:45:18] Speaker 7: Like I'm cool with that. That's why I went to it.
[1:45:27] Speaker 7: So he hasn't come to get rid of to He
[1:45:30] Speaker 7: hasn't come to I'll take all four. He hasn't come
[1:45:33] Speaker 7: to destroy the law. He hasn't come to dissolve the law.
[1:45:36] Speaker 7: He has not come to overthrow the law. And he
[1:45:39] Speaker 7: has not come to abolish the law. Are we good
[1:45:41] Speaker 7: with that?
[1:45:42] Speaker 3: Okay?
[1:45:46] Speaker 2: Okay?
[1:45:48] Speaker 3: So?
[1:45:50] Speaker 2: And by the law he means.
[1:45:57] Speaker 4: I would assume he's talking about the Oasaic law.
[1:46:00] Speaker 2: Okay, great.
[1:46:02] Speaker 7: So when he's so just to recap when he says
[1:46:06] Speaker 7: until heaven and earth pass away, he's talking about that
[1:46:11] Speaker 7: law until the sky and the earth go away is
[1:46:18] Speaker 7: still in effect. Like nobody's getting rid of it, right.
[1:46:24] Speaker 3: He's not getting rid of it in that happens, all right?
[1:46:28] Speaker 7: Is somebody else getting rid of it?
[1:46:32] Speaker 2: I mean no?
[1:46:35] Speaker 7: And he didn't say I'm not going to get rid
[1:46:37] Speaker 7: of it. He said it shall not pass away until
[1:46:40] Speaker 7: heaven and earth pass away, not one iota, not one
[1:46:44] Speaker 7: stroke of a letter pass away from the law until
[1:46:48] Speaker 7: everything okay, is to happen, let's see.
[1:47:04] Speaker 4: Okay, So he says that what does he mean by
[1:47:08] Speaker 4: he is getting to fulfill the things?
[1:47:10] Speaker 2: Okay?
[1:47:10] Speaker 7: So I don't think it's relevant, but I'm going to
[1:47:15] Speaker 7: go into it anyway. My interpretation would be to follow
[1:47:21] Speaker 7: the law, which he also didn't do.
[1:47:27] Speaker 3: Okay.
[1:47:29] Speaker 4: So my question is why would he say all of
[1:47:31] Speaker 4: this and then go on to give several commands to people.
[1:47:38] Speaker 7: Because he's a liar, like you know, you know in
[1:47:40] Speaker 7: that very same chapter changed the law.
[1:47:44] Speaker 2: He's a liar.
[1:47:45] Speaker 7: Look in Matthew five seventeen he said not one letter, right,
[1:47:50] Speaker 7: and then I think it's in verse thirty eight he goes, hey,
[1:47:53] Speaker 7: you know that eye for an eye thing, we don't
[1:47:56] Speaker 7: do that no more.
[1:47:57] Speaker 2: That's changing a letter. That's a few letters. So if he's.
[1:48:01] Speaker 7: Saying not one letter, not one stroke of a pen
[1:48:03] Speaker 7: will change, he can't even wait a chapter. He's like,
[1:48:07] Speaker 7: I need to you know how badly I need this
[1:48:11] Speaker 7: this h drug that is changing the law. I need
[1:48:13] Speaker 7: to do it within the same chapter.
[1:48:16] Speaker 1: Which, keep in mind, is another contradiction with Deuteronomy four.
[1:48:20] Speaker 1: God saysn't do it army before you must neither add
[1:48:23] Speaker 1: anything to what I am commanding you, nor take anything
[1:48:26] Speaker 1: away from it, but keep the commandments of the Lord
[1:48:28] Speaker 1: your God, which I'm charging you, and so Jesus coming
[1:48:31] Speaker 1: along and adding or taking away or anything of that
[1:48:34] Speaker 1: nature is just breaking the law.
[1:48:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, Okayron, I mean before you go out on to
[1:48:44] Speaker 2: you will agree with what I say about fulfilled? Is
[1:48:46] Speaker 2: follow the law? Or do you have a different interpretation?
[1:48:49] Speaker 3: Huh?
[1:48:50] Speaker 7: What do you think fulfilled means to follow the law
[1:48:53] Speaker 7: or do you have a different interpretation of.
[1:48:54] Speaker 2: What it means?
[1:48:55] Speaker 4: I mean when I read this verse, I mean, I
[1:48:57] Speaker 4: can see where you got your inspace from.
[1:49:00] Speaker 3: It makes sense.
[1:49:01] Speaker 4: But when I hear fulfilled, I'm assuming he's saying he
[1:49:04] Speaker 4: came to complete it, bring to fullness, because that's also
[1:49:08] Speaker 4: another translation of that phrase.
[1:49:10] Speaker 7: There great, what does it mean to bring a law
[1:49:12] Speaker 7: to fullness and complete it?
[1:49:15] Speaker 4: I'd say it would howlp with this because my thought
[1:49:22] Speaker 4: process right now is sure. I mean, technically you could
[1:49:26] Speaker 4: say it would be to follow it, right because but
[1:49:32] Speaker 4: then I also feel like as if I see him
[1:49:35] Speaker 4: being God and he would have had an angle for it.
[1:49:38] Speaker 3: Maybe I don't know this, I really I don't know.
[1:49:42] Speaker 4: I think I probably have to just really look into
[1:49:44] Speaker 4: this more honestly speaking, because because.
[1:49:46] Speaker 7: I'm willing, I'm willing to accept bring the completion. But
[1:49:50] Speaker 7: when when you say bring the completion, there's two ways
[1:49:52] Speaker 7: that I can interpret that, Yeah, bring the completion, Like
[1:49:55] Speaker 7: add like complete it because it wasn't finished, like add
[1:49:59] Speaker 7: stuff to it to like make it make more sense,
[1:50:02] Speaker 7: or complete it as it like finish its purpose so.
[1:50:05] Speaker 2: We don't need it anymore.
[1:50:07] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think add to it.
[1:50:09] Speaker 4: I guess, well, not not even I guess like explain
[1:50:12] Speaker 4: it more so that it makes more sense would be
[1:50:15] Speaker 4: very viable here, because I mean that's the whole in Okay,
[1:50:18] Speaker 4: in this context, right when we just look at this
[1:50:21] Speaker 4: entire passage, that would be the definition I think would
[1:50:25] Speaker 4: that would make the most be the most concise here
[1:50:27] Speaker 4: because thereafter he goes on and explains the old law,
[1:50:31] Speaker 4: but he kind of elaborates more on it, like for
[1:50:34] Speaker 4: example that one example you gave it right where it
[1:50:36] Speaker 4: said eye for an eye, But then he goes on
[1:50:39] Speaker 4: to say, you know, on I really just have to
[1:50:42] Speaker 4: pull up the very s.
[1:50:43] Speaker 7: That's that's the one that's the problem. Like all of
[1:50:45] Speaker 7: the ones after Matthew, all of the ones in Matthew
[1:50:49] Speaker 7: five that he does right. Every one is perfectly fine,
[1:50:53] Speaker 7: except for that one, because when he says it is
[1:50:57] Speaker 7: said not to Actually, I'm gonna pull it up. I
[1:50:59] Speaker 7: think he says you shouldn't commit adultery. But if you
[1:51:02] Speaker 7: look at a woman, that's yeah, that that's that's adding.
[1:51:09] Speaker 7: And I mean, I you know what, I'm gonna be
[1:51:11] Speaker 7: super generous. I'm gonna say, we're gonna reinterpret like, you
[1:51:14] Speaker 7: shall not commit adulterree. But I mean when I say adultree,
[1:51:17] Speaker 7: I mean looking at a woman with lust? Fine, my wife.
[1:51:21] Speaker 2: Three.
[1:51:22] Speaker 3: That's that's what I was saying in the beginning.
[1:51:24] Speaker 7: Okay, So that one's good. The anger you shall not murder.
[1:51:28] Speaker 7: But I say to you, if you are angry with
[1:51:30] Speaker 7: your brother and sister, you're still going to be judged.
[1:51:32] Speaker 4: Okay, that's it.
[1:51:33] Speaker 2: That's a reinterpretation.
[1:51:35] Speaker 3: That was my whole power.
[1:51:36] Speaker 7: Hold on, hold on, I'm okay with all of these. Uh,
[1:51:40] Speaker 7: you shall not swear falsely. And he gives another interpretation.
[1:51:44] Speaker 7: But the the eye for an eye one, right, if
[1:51:47] Speaker 7: the law says an eye for an eye, that means
[1:51:49] Speaker 7: that if I poke out Justin's eye, you gotta get mine. Right,
[1:51:55] Speaker 7: turn the other cheek is not a reinterpretation. There is
[1:52:01] Speaker 7: no way that you can read an eye for an
[1:52:02] Speaker 7: eye that says turn the other cheek. That is the
[1:52:06] Speaker 7: exact opposite of an eye for an eye.
[1:52:08] Speaker 3: That's how I say it.
[1:52:11] Speaker 4: Yeah, so I mean essentially I could understand that. But
[1:52:15] Speaker 4: the theme that I'm getting from this, because like, sure
[1:52:19] Speaker 4: it's reinterpretation, but the thing I'm getting from it is
[1:52:21] Speaker 4: more so further alive.
[1:52:23] Speaker 3: How put this.
[1:52:25] Speaker 4: That that with that specific verse, right when Jesus saying,
[1:52:29] Speaker 4: you know, turn your cheek, I guess he's more so
[1:52:30] Speaker 4: saying as opposed to you going and getting vengeance on
[1:52:35] Speaker 4: this person which you were originally commanded, you know, just
[1:52:38] Speaker 4: leave it, be right, just accept it.
[1:52:42] Speaker 7: I'm with you on that. But what I'm saying is
[1:52:45] Speaker 7: that's a that's not reinterpreting. That's changing.
[1:52:50] Speaker 3: I mean it is.
[1:52:52] Speaker 4: Give me on a second, because it's like I can
[1:52:56] Speaker 4: see where you're coming from.
[1:52:57] Speaker 2: Well let me give you.
[1:52:58] Speaker 7: Let me give you what it would look like or
[1:53:00] Speaker 7: not for another one of these reinterpretations. It would be
[1:53:02] Speaker 7: like if I was to say, you have heard it
[1:53:04] Speaker 7: said thou shalt not commit adultery, But I tell you
[1:53:08] Speaker 7: if your husband cheats, give him another woman. Wait again,
[1:53:15] Speaker 7: that's what turned the other cheek is right. If somebody
[1:53:18] Speaker 7: takes your eye or somebody slaps you in the face,
[1:53:20] Speaker 7: give them your other cheek, cheeks, get it, get it,
[1:53:24] Speaker 7: get it checked.
[1:53:26] Speaker 2: But that's what you're saying.
[1:53:27] Speaker 7: You're saying, Hey, if you're, if you're somebody commits adultery,
[1:53:31] Speaker 7: that's it's not just that they're lucky. Just give them
[1:53:33] Speaker 7: another to give them a second woman to cheat with
[1:53:36] Speaker 7: or a third one. That's what he's saying, right, not
[1:53:39] Speaker 7: about adultery, but about the retaliation. He's saying, do not
[1:53:43] Speaker 7: do what it says in the law.
[1:53:44] Speaker 2: Do this instead.
[1:53:46] Speaker 1: Right, And it's pretty simple to suss out, Like what's
[1:53:49] Speaker 1: the opposite of retaliate?
[1:53:52] Speaker 4: Don't retaliate like I Like I said, I understand that.
[1:53:55] Speaker 4: I don't understand how I can do so easily misunderstood.
[1:53:58] Speaker 4: Like I'm saying, I get the point that you guys
[1:53:59] Speaker 4: are trying I gonna make I actually agree with some
[1:54:01] Speaker 4: of them. Is just I feel like in certain aspects
[1:54:04] Speaker 4: I don't wholeheartedly agree with everything I feel like I mean,
[1:54:11] Speaker 4: because you got to realize, at the end of the day,
[1:54:13] Speaker 4: this is just me explaining what I believe, right in
[1:54:17] Speaker 4: you explaining what.
[1:54:18] Speaker 3: You believe, and then going about how we came.
[1:54:20] Speaker 7: I don't think that's what's happening right now. Right now,
[1:54:22] Speaker 7: we're just reading a sentence and saying what does that
[1:54:24] Speaker 7: sentence mean? So if I say the law in Exodus
[1:54:28] Speaker 7: twenty one says that whatevery harm you literally what I
[1:54:33] Speaker 7: just said, hold on, hold on, This isn't belief. This
[1:54:36] Speaker 7: is this this has nothing.
[1:54:37] Speaker 3: Okay, hold on.
[1:54:38] Speaker 4: When I say belief, I'm referring to your understanding, the
[1:54:42] Speaker 4: understanding that you subscribe to.
[1:54:44] Speaker 7: Okay, let me just let me just show you why
[1:54:47] Speaker 7: that's not the case. I'm going to show you the
[1:54:50] Speaker 7: Exodus twenty one where it says I for I tooth
[1:54:54] Speaker 7: for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
[1:54:58] Speaker 2: How do you interpret that?
[1:55:02] Speaker 3: So?
[1:55:02] Speaker 4: I understand this law basically, is someone that's signed that you,
[1:55:07] Speaker 4: you do it back to.
[1:55:08] Speaker 7: Them, and that's the law. That's what you're supposed to do.
[1:55:12] Speaker 2: Okay.
[1:55:14] Speaker 7: Is there any other interpretation to the words. Is there
[1:55:18] Speaker 7: any other interpretation? Like if I was to say the
[1:55:21] Speaker 7: law okay, but but I interpret that to me and
[1:55:26] Speaker 7: I take them a cherry Sunday.
[1:55:28] Speaker 3: All right?
[1:55:28] Speaker 4: So The thing is, though, when I hear that law,
[1:55:33] Speaker 4: what I understand the principle, the principle is lying beneath it.
[1:55:39] Speaker 4: I think that's more so what Jesus is reinterpreting here.
[1:55:42] Speaker 4: He's reinterpreting the principles that lie beneath these laws.
[1:55:45] Speaker 2: Right, let's just look at this law.
[1:55:48] Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I'm doing right now. That's that you
[1:55:51] Speaker 4: just gave me.
[1:55:52] Speaker 2: Principle are from the words exactly? Could yourself stop? Stop stop?
[1:55:58] Speaker 7: I'm reading it to you because you're speaking in generalities
[1:56:02] Speaker 7: that when you speak in generality.
[1:56:04] Speaker 4: I haven't even begun to explain what I was saying.
[1:56:06] Speaker 4: I feel like if you would just hear me out.
[1:56:08] Speaker 7: No no, no, no, no, no, no no no. I'm telling you
[1:56:10] Speaker 7: why it sounds like you're selling me something. We're talking
[1:56:13] Speaker 7: about something very specific, and you're speaking in something very general.
[1:56:17] Speaker 7: I'm looking at Exodus twenty one. It says, if any
[1:56:19] Speaker 7: harm follows, and you shall give life for life. I
[1:56:23] Speaker 7: for eye, toru for truth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
[1:56:27] Speaker 7: burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. What
[1:56:32] Speaker 7: principle does that outline for you?
[1:56:35] Speaker 4: Okay, but then that's what I was trying to explain
[1:56:38] Speaker 4: the principle that is backing this is that when somebody
[1:56:43] Speaker 4: causes harm to you, you are to give that harm
[1:56:46] Speaker 4: back to them.
[1:56:48] Speaker 2: Okay, that's to the principle what.
[1:56:51] Speaker 4: I get from when we go and read Matthew. What
[1:56:54] Speaker 4: Jesus is attempting to do in this is saying, Okay,
[1:56:58] Speaker 4: you were told previously when harm is done to you,
[1:57:01] Speaker 4: do harm back to that person. Instead of that, I say,
[1:57:04] Speaker 4: when someone harms you, don't harm that person back, be
[1:57:09] Speaker 4: open in forgiving. Okay, that's the that's the kind of
[1:57:13] Speaker 4: interpretation of those principles that.
[1:57:14] Speaker 1: That would be a change. That's what Jeff said.
[1:57:17] Speaker 4: Yeah, are those I mean, like I'm saying it, how
[1:57:20] Speaker 4: about this sure? I mean, if you want, you can
[1:57:24] Speaker 4: say it's a change.
[1:57:25] Speaker 3: I see how you could have.
[1:57:26] Speaker 4: I see how you could It is.
[1:57:27] Speaker 1: A change that if the law says you can go
[1:57:32] Speaker 1: fifty five miles an hour and not faster than fifty five,
[1:57:36] Speaker 1: and someone comes along later says you can go as
[1:57:38] Speaker 1: fast as you want, that's a change. Like if the
[1:57:41] Speaker 1: law of Moses says that you retaliate with the same
[1:57:45] Speaker 1: level that was waged against you, meaning if someone took
[1:57:48] Speaker 1: your hand you take their hand, and then somebody comes
[1:57:50] Speaker 1: along and stay or says, don't do that. It's a change.
[1:57:54] Speaker 4: And okay, let me ask you a question. Let me
[1:57:56] Speaker 4: ask you this. So, why was it that in the
[1:58:01] Speaker 4: Old Testament, with this specific law given right, why was
[1:58:05] Speaker 4: it that God advocated for people to do back to
[1:58:09] Speaker 4: others what they did to them?
[1:58:11] Speaker 3: What was his reasoning?
[1:58:12] Speaker 1: Because the Old Testament, God's to jackass okay.
[1:58:15] Speaker 4: And that see that's the thing right there.
[1:58:17] Speaker 2: It gets give give you to make this point.
[1:58:22] Speaker 1: I don't think a single point you've made has been
[1:58:24] Speaker 1: important yet.
[1:58:26] Speaker 4: If you could let me talk to I want to.
[1:58:29] Speaker 2: I want to answer your question as well. He's also
[1:58:31] Speaker 2: a plagiarist.
[1:58:33] Speaker 1: Okay.
[1:58:34] Speaker 3: Cool.
[1:58:35] Speaker 4: So my understanding of why God would give that law
[1:58:40] Speaker 4: to people is because he wants people to have what
[1:58:44] Speaker 4: he wants to give people justice, if that makes sense.
[1:58:47] Speaker 4: If someone does something to you, you do it back
[1:58:49] Speaker 4: to them, that's justice, right, That's not justice. I disagree
[1:58:56] Speaker 4: with you in that aspect.
[1:58:58] Speaker 1: This is not justice anymore like we we wouldn't exactly.
[1:59:01] Speaker 1: We don't consider that justice today. That's called exactly, called exactly.
[1:59:06] Speaker 1: And I think society, I think society has moved on.
[1:59:09] Speaker 1: And that's kind of the problem.
[1:59:10] Speaker 4: Exactly, that that God, that's the whole point Arnav when Jesus.
[1:59:14] Speaker 1: Arnav, the God who said to follow this commandment, said
[1:59:18] Speaker 1: to follow up forever.
[1:59:23] Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean we already talked about this, right,
[1:59:24] Speaker 4: that's what these commandments say, but we're coming to this
[1:59:29] Speaker 4: passage where it essentially seems to be saying, right, okay, yeah.
[1:59:35] Speaker 3: Because God just saws, haven't.
[1:59:37] Speaker 1: God in Jesus don't even agree with each other.
[1:59:39] Speaker 4: I disagree with you here, like I like we were saying.
[1:59:42] Speaker 4: I thought that was how long did Hwah say to
[1:59:44] Speaker 4: follow the laws and so heaven to earth passed away?
[1:59:48] Speaker 4: And how long did Jesus say?
[1:59:49] Speaker 7: He said, no, No, the always said forever, always for
[1:59:53] Speaker 7: not even until heaven and earth pass away. Deuteronomy eleven.
[1:59:56] Speaker 7: He says always Deuteronomy twenty nine, he says forever never.
[2:00:00] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[2:00:01] Speaker 1: I think the conversation is getting repetitive. I want to
[2:00:03] Speaker 1: get another guest up here and uh, and then we've
[2:00:07] Speaker 1: got I apologize. We had a shitload of super chats.
[2:00:09] Speaker 1: I think what I'll do is I'll get one more
[2:00:11] Speaker 1: good conversation in with the next guest, and then we'll
[2:00:13] Speaker 1: go through the super chats all at once, and then
[2:00:16] Speaker 1: we'll because I'm done at five o'clock today. But I
[2:00:20] Speaker 1: appreciate you come up and chatting with us, and I
[2:00:23] Speaker 1: know we put some pressure on you. But you know,
[2:00:26] Speaker 1: one thing I would leave you to think about is,
[2:00:29] Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you're going to run into atheists and
[2:00:31] Speaker 1: you might want to consider the possibility that they've already
[2:00:34] Speaker 1: read the book and they might know it better.
[2:00:36] Speaker 4: Than I do that all the time. Trust Like, I
[2:00:39] Speaker 4: never said you didn't read the book. I just feel
[2:00:42] Speaker 4: like sometimes you listen, you could lead a horse to water,
[2:00:44] Speaker 4: but it's up to the horse whether or not that's true.
[2:00:47] Speaker 1: I've given you water all day and you didn't want
[2:00:49] Speaker 1: to drink it.
[2:00:49] Speaker 4: It's okay, hey, but that's the difference between me and you.
[2:00:52] Speaker 4: I'm going to look into the damser saying and investigate
[2:00:54] Speaker 4: them in mind.
[2:00:56] Speaker 1: The difference between and you is you won't drink the water,
[2:00:58] Speaker 1: and I will because I'm honest.
[2:01:00] Speaker 3: That you haven't drunk the water.
[2:01:02] Speaker 1: I've literally dunked your head under the water, and you're
[2:01:05] Speaker 1: here flailing as you're gasping for breast, saying I'm not underwater.
[2:01:08] Speaker 1: I'm not underwater.
[2:01:09] Speaker 4: You're trying to force me into the water, but I
[2:01:11] Speaker 4: haven't gone into it yet. That's the thing I'm just
[2:01:13] Speaker 4: gonna that's besides the point I gave you a no.
[2:01:16] Speaker 1: All right, cool, Jeff, you wanted to take another guest,
[2:01:21] Speaker 1: Let's let's let's grab another guest from the queue and
[2:01:23] Speaker 1: we'll we'll pull him in.
[2:01:24] Speaker 2: We're gonna do the.
[2:01:26] Speaker 1: I's afraid to pull him in. We're gonna pull in
[2:01:28] Speaker 1: the red neckt stage. I'm sure this would be enlightening
[2:01:31] Speaker 1: how you do in red next aage.
[2:01:33] Speaker 8: I'm so glad I got to get up here. And
[2:01:36] Speaker 8: I know I don't have quite the uh uh expertise
[2:01:41] Speaker 8: with the Bible and and and details that you have.
[2:01:45] Speaker 8: But but there's something that I did learn that maybe
[2:01:47] Speaker 8: uh maybe you you have you know about already. Let's
[2:01:50] Speaker 8: just like to hear especially glad that so are you.
[2:01:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll hold on for my own live. Yeah, okay, cool.
[2:01:59] Speaker 8: I'm I'm Christian. Well, I'm Critian, but I'm.
[2:02:02] Speaker 2: Glad that you so.
[2:02:02] Speaker 1: I ask everyone the same questions when they come in.
[2:02:05] Speaker 1: I verify that they're of age. It sounds like you're
[2:02:07] Speaker 1: of age. I ask them what the religious belief is
[2:02:09] Speaker 1: or their God belief is. And it sounds like you're
[2:02:12] Speaker 1: a Christian. That's all I needed from you. So I
[2:02:14] Speaker 1: guess the next thing I would ask is what's the argument?
[2:02:18] Speaker 1: What's the argument you came here to present?
[2:02:22] Speaker 8: Well, I'm particularly glad that you understand Greek because this
[2:02:25] Speaker 8: this has to do exactly with what the portion of
[2:02:28] Speaker 8: the argument that I'm going to make. There's a guy
[2:02:31] Speaker 8: that I learned this from. His name is see Chuck Missler,
[2:02:36] Speaker 8: and he's talking wait a minute now on he's talking
[2:02:41] Speaker 8: about can you please uh please, I hope you don't
[2:02:45] Speaker 8: just you know, off handedly, you know, dismiss Well, oh,
[2:02:49] Speaker 8: it's it's it's it's. Oh, it's boso that you're that
[2:02:51] Speaker 8: you're referring to me.
[2:02:52] Speaker 3: Do you know what?
[2:02:53] Speaker 1: Do you know what his education was?
[2:02:54] Speaker 8: In engineering?
[2:02:58] Speaker 1: Yeah? Just check him. Yeah, not in studies.
[2:03:04] Speaker 8: Right, No, But but he did quite an extensive amount
[2:03:09] Speaker 8: of work in this in this area that I'm about
[2:03:11] Speaker 8: to talk to talk about, I'm sure he did. And
[2:03:12] Speaker 8: also but but but the but the but the area,
[2:03:15] Speaker 8: the stuff that he had referenced that I'm gonna specifically
[2:03:18] Speaker 8: reference to was work that was done by doctor Ivan
[2:03:22] Speaker 8: Pannin or penine, I'm not sure. P A N, I
[2:03:25] Speaker 8: N and uh. And what it what it has to
[2:03:27] Speaker 8: do with is is coding within the Bible's text that
[2:03:33] Speaker 8: that would be impossible. Hold on now, okay, well well look,
[2:03:37] Speaker 8: I mean okay, you laugh, but here, but since you
[2:03:39] Speaker 8: know Greek, it's so funny, I've looked like to see
[2:03:41] Speaker 8: if you could do this thing that I'm gonna ask
[2:03:43] Speaker 8: you to do.
[2:03:43] Speaker 1: So I'll just stop you now because I think what
[2:03:46] Speaker 1: you're gonna do is waste everyone's time. And I'm gonna
[2:03:48] Speaker 1: tell you why it's a waste of time. So just
[2:03:50] Speaker 1: just hold on to your seat for five seconds. I'm
[2:03:52] Speaker 1: gonna tell you why Bible codes are stupid. The reason
[2:03:55] Speaker 1: why Bible codes are stupid is because it assumes that
[2:03:58] Speaker 1: whatever manuscripts we have, but they all say the same thing,
[2:04:01] Speaker 1: and they simply don't. You can take any number of
[2:04:04] Speaker 1: the various Bible manuscripts. They'll have different words, they'll have
[2:04:07] Speaker 1: them in different orders. Sometimes they'll be missing words. The
[2:04:11] Speaker 1: reality is Bible codes are nonsense unless you only have
[2:04:14] Speaker 1: one single manuscript or all of your manuscripts agree and
[2:04:18] Speaker 1: they simply don't. So Bible codes are nonsense. Do you
[2:04:21] Speaker 1: have anything other than Bible codes.
[2:04:23] Speaker 8: No, that's actually not true. And I'll make this argument
[2:04:25] Speaker 8: that it doesn't matter because the because the chance of
[2:04:29] Speaker 8: somebody getting this many specifics to line up in order
[2:04:34] Speaker 8: and happen in one text is approaches an impossibility. That's
[2:04:39] Speaker 8: on the that's.
[2:04:40] Speaker 1: Certainly not true, and that factors software that finds these
[2:04:44] Speaker 1: codes in texts, and the experiment has been done on
[2:04:48] Speaker 1: any number of large volumes. So like this whole nonsense
[2:04:52] Speaker 1: of hey, some guy that had a piece of software
[2:04:54] Speaker 1: searched for Bible codes. Cool, people have done it in
[2:04:58] Speaker 1: other books as well.
[2:05:00] Speaker 8: Well. My argument is that even with the computer, you
[2:05:03] Speaker 8: couldn't you couldn't write. You could find text like that,
[2:05:06] Speaker 8: you could find significance in text like that, but you
[2:05:08] Speaker 8: couldn't lay it out and write it. And then you
[2:05:12] Speaker 8: couldn't do it also across several well, you know what
[2:05:16] Speaker 8: I'd love to see. I think i'd like to see
[2:05:18] Speaker 8: even begin to approach that when taking just say, okay,
[2:05:22] Speaker 8: the verse specifically that I'm talking about is the last
[2:05:25] Speaker 8: chapter of Matthew, which is so many words or whatever.
[2:05:28] Speaker 8: And you know how Greek is it has each letter
[2:05:30] Speaker 8: has a number attached to it. Correct, No, it doesn't know,
[2:05:37] Speaker 8: does Hebrew.
[2:05:39] Speaker 1: So Hebrew and Greek do have number like so there
[2:05:43] Speaker 1: are numerical values to the individual letters in Greek and Hebrew.
[2:05:47] Speaker 1: Hebrew is different. So in Hebrew they actually spelled out
[2:05:52] Speaker 1: the numbers. The numbers weren't added to the Hebrew letters
[2:05:55] Speaker 1: until the Greco Roman period, so that was a late invention.
[2:05:58] Speaker 1: When the Bible was actually written in Hebrew, they didn't
[2:06:01] Speaker 1: have that convention yet. That was added later. Now when
[2:06:04] Speaker 1: it comes to Greek, they do have a similar convention
[2:06:07] Speaker 1: where each individual number does or each individual letter does
[2:06:11] Speaker 1: have a number value.
[2:06:13] Speaker 8: Yeah, okay, that's what I'm talking about. And so what
[2:06:16] Speaker 8: happened was is that is that having that convention a
[2:06:19] Speaker 8: style of Greek and and and Chuck goes on to
[2:06:22] Speaker 8: say that Greek is even more precise a language than
[2:06:25] Speaker 8: English is, and so it would be one that would
[2:06:27] Speaker 8: be more difficult to try to manipulate in this way.
[2:06:31] Speaker 8: Is that there are there are seventy What the mister
[2:06:35] Speaker 8: doctor Panina found is that there were seventy four different
[2:06:39] Speaker 8: rules that that he found that were that this portion
[2:06:45] Speaker 8: of text was bounded by meaning meaning say and and
[2:06:48] Speaker 8: I'll give you some examples of what the types of
[2:06:50] Speaker 8: rules were.
[2:06:51] Speaker 1: Red Neck, Do you actually know Greek? No? I don't,
[2:06:54] Speaker 1: But okay, so you so you literally have no idea
[2:06:56] Speaker 1: what you're talking about right now?
[2:06:57] Speaker 8: Then no, I know what I'm talking about. It doesn't
[2:06:59] Speaker 8: matter whether whether I know Greek or not. You'renot gonna
[2:07:02] Speaker 8: you cannot be able to discount what the things I'm
[2:07:04] Speaker 8: saying because I can understand what what Chuck mister was saying,
[2:07:07] Speaker 8: and I can understand I know how lexicon of language goes,
[2:07:12] Speaker 8: and so I understand how you could attach a number
[2:07:14] Speaker 8: value to letters, and that makes perfect sense. That's elementary.
[2:07:17] Speaker 1: And so you do know, you do know that Greek,
[2:07:20] Speaker 1: like Hebrew, also used words for numbers as well. Right,
[2:07:23] Speaker 1: just make sure we're aware of this.
[2:07:25] Speaker 8: Sure, well, put away I'm talking about it is the
[2:07:27] Speaker 8: way that Greek Greek was certain around and in the
[2:07:29] Speaker 8: way that the Greek attached number, a number value to
[2:07:33] Speaker 8: each letter would take.
[2:07:36] Speaker 1: Just be clear, like when you're reading a Greek text,
[2:07:38] Speaker 1: they don't just lay out letters as numbers, they actually
[2:07:41] Speaker 1: spell it out.
[2:07:43] Speaker 8: Okay, well, what I'm talking about is the number, but
[2:07:46] Speaker 8: each letter has a number value disassociated with it.
[2:07:50] Speaker 7: Can I ask you a question. Sure, Have you ever
[2:07:53] Speaker 7: heard the concept of a bunch of monkeys in a
[2:07:57] Speaker 7: room with a room full of typewriters will eventually all
[2:08:00] Speaker 7: of the works of Shakespeare?
[2:08:01] Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of that?
[2:08:03] Speaker 8: That wouldn't happen?
[2:08:05] Speaker 2: Wouldn't happen?
[2:08:05] Speaker 7: I agree with you, given enough time, But given enough time,
[2:08:09] Speaker 7: I think I think it's nonsense. Have you ever heard
[2:08:10] Speaker 7: of the Library of Babbel?
[2:08:12] Speaker 2: Library?
[2:08:13] Speaker 1: Babbel is great.
[2:08:16] Speaker 8: Let me ask you this.
[2:08:19] Speaker 1: Question.
[2:08:20] Speaker 2: Have you have you heard of? Okay?
[2:08:21] Speaker 3: Cool?
[2:08:22] Speaker 2: Do you know what that is? He doesn't know, but.
[2:08:24] Speaker 8: No, But is the Library of Babbel's Does that have
[2:08:27] Speaker 8: something to do with I told you I'm not a
[2:08:28] Speaker 8: I told you I'm not a I'm not a do
[2:08:31] Speaker 8: nothing expert. And that's my arguments.
[2:08:34] Speaker 7: Not. This has nothing to do with the Bible. Actually,
[2:08:39] Speaker 7: it has less than nothing to do with the Bible.
[2:08:42] Speaker 8: Right, okay, So what's your what are you? What's your statement?
[2:08:45] Speaker 7: So I'm just going to ask again, have you heard
[2:08:47] Speaker 7: of the Library of Babel? Not the power the Library?
[2:08:51] Speaker 8: Oh no, I have not?
[2:08:52] Speaker 2: Okay, great.
[2:08:53] Speaker 7: So this is a project that some people put together,
[2:08:56] Speaker 7: and it is a database of strings of letters, just
[2:09:00] Speaker 7: end them strings of letters and it's that library of
[2:09:03] Speaker 7: babbel dot info. And this is so impressive. If you
[2:09:06] Speaker 7: write anything that comes to mind, any lowercase string of letters.
[2:09:09] Speaker 2: You could write I love Mario Brothers, and it.
[2:09:13] Speaker 7: Will find you in the text. It'll it's already there.
[2:09:17] Speaker 7: It'll find and.
[2:09:21] Speaker 2: Characters.
[2:09:21] Speaker 7: And this literally you can examine the code. It is
[2:09:25] Speaker 7: a random letter generator. I think that that's far more
[2:09:31] Speaker 7: impressive than any confirmation biased numerology that's going to happen
[2:09:36] Speaker 7: from the New Testament. Well, well for the purpose for
[2:09:40] Speaker 7: the reason that just which is I don't have original
[2:09:44] Speaker 7: manuscripts about of the first four books of the New Testament,
[2:09:47] Speaker 7: so I don't know what was said there to begin with.
[2:09:50] Speaker 7: But this I can look at the source code, right,
[2:09:52] Speaker 7: I could see what the initial code was. I can
[2:09:55] Speaker 7: actually if I wanted to go through the dns and
[2:10:00] Speaker 7: but who is and find the person who owns this
[2:10:02] Speaker 7: and talk to them and say, hey, can you give
[2:10:04] Speaker 7: me like the information for how you put this together?
[2:10:07] Speaker 7: And they'll be like, here you go. And that to
[2:10:09] Speaker 7: me is like if I was able to write any
[2:10:12] Speaker 7: of the crazy stuff that comes to my mind, you
[2:10:15] Speaker 7: should like you should hear me talk sometimes I say,
[2:10:18] Speaker 7: wild stuff it. I can find it in here and
[2:10:21] Speaker 7: I've tested it. That's super amazing to me.
[2:10:26] Speaker 8: Well have you tested this? And I'd like to maybe
[2:10:28] Speaker 8: even if you could try it with just maybe even
[2:10:29] Speaker 8: one sentence, if if you could, if you could conjure uh,
[2:10:33] Speaker 8: this kind of conformity uh to this type of system.
[2:10:38] Speaker 8: Let me just give you a few of the rules
[2:10:40] Speaker 8: that are that are laid out in this uh in
[2:10:42] Speaker 8: this and the rules here say, if if you if
[2:10:45] Speaker 8: you were to take this passage, which is which is?
[2:10:48] Speaker 8: It has so many words in it, uh, the total number.
[2:10:52] Speaker 1: You haven't yet what you're.
[2:10:54] Speaker 8: Saying talking about. I'm not gonna it doesn't matter what
[2:10:57] Speaker 8: the passage is.
[2:10:58] Speaker 1: Give me the passage so I can pull it up
[2:11:00] Speaker 1: up in Greek and verify if you're saying bullshit?
[2:11:04] Speaker 8: May I finish the things the rules of saying and
[2:11:06] Speaker 8: then we could then we could try to do that.
[2:11:08] Speaker 1: I will be looking at your rules as I'm.
[2:11:10] Speaker 2: Looking at the passage, so.
[2:11:14] Speaker 1: You will not you will give me the passage first?
[2:11:17] Speaker 8: Oh, come on, man, I mean listen, listen.
[2:11:20] Speaker 1: This is a no crying zone. Give me the passage.
[2:11:23] Speaker 1: I will check. I will check your claims against the passage.
[2:11:28] Speaker 1: So what's the passage?
[2:11:30] Speaker 8: It doesn't matter what the passage is, it does you're
[2:11:33] Speaker 8: the one bringing it up. So do you have a Greek?
[2:11:37] Speaker 8: Do you have the Greek version of of of Matthew?
[2:11:40] Speaker 8: The last chapter in Matthew in front of you?
[2:11:42] Speaker 1: I can get it. Yeah, is that what you want?
[2:11:44] Speaker 1: The last chapter of Matthew?
[2:11:46] Speaker 8: Yes, in Greek? Okay, last chapter of Matthew and Greek?
[2:11:52] Speaker 1: Which version of Greek do you want? Like the Neslei
[2:11:55] Speaker 1: Allen Greek was cotton hort Greek? Which which critical operations
[2:12:00] Speaker 1: most ancient?
[2:12:00] Speaker 8: The most ancient version of Greek that was around at
[2:12:03] Speaker 8: the time that around the first first century when these
[2:12:07] Speaker 8: text were written.
[2:12:07] Speaker 1: Well, we don't have one. The earliest is probably gonna
[2:12:09] Speaker 1: be Synaticus.
[2:12:12] Speaker 8: Okay, well that seems like that might be the most
[2:12:14] Speaker 8: obvious choice.
[2:12:15] Speaker 1: Then, Okay, so like fifth century?
[2:12:17] Speaker 2: Cool?
[2:12:19] Speaker 1: Maybe fourth century if you're being generous. Okay, So we're
[2:12:21] Speaker 1: gonna do Matthew twenty eight in the Sinaticus. Let's see
[2:12:25] Speaker 1: if I can open up a copy of.
[2:12:27] Speaker 2: And we don't.
[2:12:27] Speaker 8: We don't have Greek that goes back as far as
[2:12:29] Speaker 8: the first century. No, okay, thank you for telling me.
[2:12:35] Speaker 2: That.
[2:12:37] Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna pull up in Quotex Snaticus from the
[2:12:40] Speaker 1: actual website and we'll go to Matthew twenty eight. So
[2:12:43] Speaker 1: what do you want to say about Matthew twenty eight?
[2:12:45] Speaker 8: Okay? So, so then could you lay next to it?
[2:12:48] Speaker 8: You know how we had discussed how there's a there's
[2:12:51] Speaker 8: a value, that that each letter has a value representation
[2:12:54] Speaker 8: as well, I can't. He showed it, and I'll try
[2:12:58] Speaker 8: to pull it up and see if I can do
[2:12:59] Speaker 8: that the way I can say, uh, let me see
[2:13:02] Speaker 8: here that you know, uh what you would what you
[2:13:08] Speaker 8: had spoken about, and you know more about Greek than
[2:13:10] Speaker 8: I do. But I'm just referring to the fact that
[2:13:13] Speaker 8: Greek has has each letter has a number value attached
[2:13:17] Speaker 8: to it, and in some arbitrary way does it not?
[2:13:27] Speaker 1: Uh no, but go ahead, I'm listening.
[2:13:30] Speaker 8: But she said before that it did not in literature. No,
[2:13:33] Speaker 8: go ahead, How well, in what capacity does it have
[2:13:38] Speaker 8: a number of value attached to it?
[2:13:41] Speaker 3: Not?
[2:13:41] Speaker 1: In literature like when you're counting, it has numerical values.
[2:13:45] Speaker 1: When you're doing literature, it does not.
[2:13:48] Speaker 8: Okay, So if you have if you have the letter
[2:13:50] Speaker 8: A and you're counting, does that have a number value
[2:13:54] Speaker 8: attached to it or whatever. A is the first letter
[2:13:56] Speaker 8: of the outfre If you're.
[2:13:57] Speaker 1: Doing math, yes, if you're writing literature, no.
[2:14:02] Speaker 8: And are okay? Are those symbols the same as the
[2:14:04] Speaker 8: ones that are right that you're that are written for literature.
[2:14:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, they can be the same if you're doing math.
[2:14:12] Speaker 1: Not if you're doing literature.
[2:14:14] Speaker 8: Okay, you can't make the You can't make the the
[2:14:17] Speaker 8: the jump here where where you're if you're if they're
[2:14:19] Speaker 8: the same symbols but they're used in different contexts, you
[2:14:23] Speaker 8: can't see how you might be able to apply that.
[2:14:25] Speaker 8: Oh wow, this this A in this in this point
[2:14:27] Speaker 8: when doing literature means A the letter A, but over
[2:14:30] Speaker 8: here it means the letter the number one. But they're
[2:14:33] Speaker 8: the same symbol. You can't that exactly what I just said.
[2:14:37] Speaker 8: I don't know why this is not for you. I'm
[2:14:38] Speaker 8: still waiting for the proof. So you can't do that.
[2:14:41] Speaker 1: I did do that. You weren't paying attention.
[2:14:44] Speaker 8: Well, okay, so so then what you want to do
[2:14:47] Speaker 8: is is take take this verse, this last verse of
[2:14:50] Speaker 8: Matthew and and and count the number of letters attached.
[2:14:55] Speaker 1: In which manuscript. By the way, in less.
[2:15:02] Speaker 8: Whatever is the oldest text, the oldest one we have
[2:15:06] Speaker 8: the last twelve verses?
[2:15:08] Speaker 1: Should I should I include the textual variance or not?
[2:15:11] Speaker 1: Because there are textual variants?
[2:15:18] Speaker 8: Which why why are the textual variances?
[2:15:22] Speaker 1: Because some things are written in the margins. You see
[2:15:24] Speaker 1: it on the screen. You see these red texts in
[2:15:26] Speaker 1: the margin.
[2:15:28] Speaker 8: Did were was it written in the margin in the
[2:15:31] Speaker 8: first century?
[2:15:32] Speaker 1: We have no thing manuscripts from the first century? None.
[2:15:35] Speaker 1: This is the what is the oldest this is the
[2:15:38] Speaker 1: oldest complete manuscript of the New Testament.
[2:15:41] Speaker 8: What you're talking about then, what you're talking about in
[2:15:43] Speaker 8: the margins or footnotes?
[2:15:44] Speaker 2: Right?
[2:15:45] Speaker 1: Some of them are footnotes, some of them are editions,
[2:15:47] Speaker 1: some of them are retractions. It depends the whole there's
[2:15:52] Speaker 1: a there's a whole science behind how to read manuscript emendations.
[2:15:59] Speaker 8: Let's just let's just take let's just take the text
[2:16:02] Speaker 8: as it is written, not footnotes and stuff. Just take
[2:16:05] Speaker 8: the what's what's written down there?
[2:16:08] Speaker 1: And you want to know how many words are and what.
[2:16:11] Speaker 8: The last twelve verses, the.
[2:16:12] Speaker 1: Last twelve verses? Why is this last twelve verses?
[2:16:15] Speaker 8: Because this is the specific portion that that that that
[2:16:18] Speaker 8: this person is referring to.
[2:16:20] Speaker 1: No, No, I want to know why the last twelve
[2:16:21] Speaker 1: verses are.
[2:16:22] Speaker 8: Relevant, because that's the portion that this that I know about,
[2:16:26] Speaker 8: that this person chose to use as an example of how.
[2:16:31] Speaker 1: I'm asking you, not what they chose. I'm asking why
[2:16:34] Speaker 1: the last twelve verses are relevant but the preceding twelve
[2:16:37] Speaker 1: verses are not relevant? Why is that the case?
[2:16:39] Speaker 8: They are relevant? But that's not that's not the portion
[2:16:43] Speaker 8: that Okay, listen, the the the codes are all over
[2:16:47] Speaker 8: the whole Bible, and they and they link up from
[2:16:49] Speaker 8: from the New Testament to the Old Testament. But but
[2:16:52] Speaker 8: so this person took a snippet, so just one the last.
[2:16:56] Speaker 1: So the last twelve verses contain a code, but the
[2:16:58] Speaker 1: prior twelve verses don't contain.
[2:17:00] Speaker 8: No I did, That's not what I said. I said
[2:17:02] Speaker 8: the but prior to twelve verses can contain a code
[2:17:04] Speaker 8: as well. But the one that this person you chose
[2:17:07] Speaker 8: to take a snippet of from to use as an
[2:17:11] Speaker 8: example to show the type of coding that's with laid
[2:17:14] Speaker 8: within merely just those twelve verses, and and and and
[2:17:17] Speaker 8: the and the detail and and and complexity that's laid
[2:17:20] Speaker 8: in just those twelve can can give you an example
[2:17:24] Speaker 8: as as an analogy for the way the complexity is
[2:17:27] Speaker 8: laid out in the rest of the Bible and the
[2:17:29] Speaker 8: way it's coded altogether.
[2:17:30] Speaker 1: And how many how many words do you think are there?
[2:17:36] Speaker 8: Let's see, let's see what this guy says. He says
[2:17:38] Speaker 8: that there are pardon me, I'm sorry, I'm I'm scanning through.
[2:18:00] Speaker 2: Wait a minute, I'm sorry. Oh, here it is. I
[2:18:02] Speaker 2: went to the wrong one.
[2:18:04] Speaker 8: Sorry about that. Let's see. Okay, of the vocabulary. Let's see, right, okay,
[2:18:13] Speaker 8: total vocabulary. I believe there are ninety eight words.
[2:18:16] Speaker 1: Okay, so ninety eight words.
[2:18:18] Speaker 8: In this portion.
[2:18:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So we're gonna put this on the scratch
[2:18:26] Speaker 1: pad for everyone to see. In fact, you can't see
[2:18:30] Speaker 1: right now because the browsers open. So on the scratch pad,
[2:18:32] Speaker 1: there are ninety eight words in the last twelve verses
[2:18:35] Speaker 1: of Matthew twenty eight. Okay. Now, for the sake of argument,
[2:18:40] Speaker 1: let's just say that's true. I'm not gonna waste my
[2:18:42] Speaker 1: time counting it. Why does that matter?
[2:18:45] Speaker 8: Because it's divisible by seven? Evenly?
[2:18:48] Speaker 1: Matter fact? Do I care?
[2:18:50] Speaker 8: Well? Because every single one of these rules.
[2:18:52] Speaker 1: There's the craziest bullshit I've ever heard. Okay, so what's
[2:18:55] Speaker 1: your suggesting. So what you're suggesting is if I ount
[2:19:01] Speaker 1: the number of words that I want, I can make
[2:19:04] Speaker 1: it divisible. I can do that shit with Harry Potter.
[2:19:07] Speaker 8: The number of words you want?
[2:19:08] Speaker 1: No, yeah, yeah, well okay, so this goes exactly to
[2:19:11] Speaker 1: what I thought it was going to.
[2:19:13] Speaker 8: Right, you can't do it with you if you choose.
[2:19:16] Speaker 1: This goes back to exactly what I said it was
[2:19:18] Speaker 1: going to, which is why somebody arbitrarily selected twelve verses,
[2:19:25] Speaker 1: and those arbitrarily selected twelve verses just happened to add
[2:19:30] Speaker 1: up to a number that is divisible by seven. I
[2:19:32] Speaker 1: didn't even do the math. I don't even know if
[2:19:33] Speaker 1: it is in fact divisible by seven. We could do
[2:19:37] Speaker 1: that real quick though. One second, I'm.
[2:19:39] Speaker 7: Gonna turn the last twelve verses of Matthew. Yes, the
[2:19:47] Speaker 7: final twelve verses. Yes, ninety eight words right in Greek
[2:19:52] Speaker 7: in the code. Yes, it's one hundred and sixty five.
[2:19:59] Speaker 8: Maybe it wasn't the I'll tell you what what. Maybe
[2:20:02] Speaker 8: I'm wrong about you.
[2:20:04] Speaker 1: You've placed your trust in dullards who don't know what
[2:20:07] Speaker 1: they're doing.
[2:20:08] Speaker 8: I'm not placing any trust. This is something that this
[2:20:10] Speaker 8: is a conjecture that I'm I'm, I'm, I'm I'm that
[2:20:14] Speaker 8: I look, I've placed my trust in Christ. But what
[2:20:17] Speaker 8: I haven't traced faithfully my trust in Chuck Missler or
[2:20:21] Speaker 8: this doctor Pannon guy. That's not what I'm saying here
[2:20:24] Speaker 8: at all. That's just those those two don't those those
[2:20:27] Speaker 8: two don't. I don't hinge one on the other at all.
[2:20:30] Speaker 8: I do have I do have a complete trust in Christ.
[2:20:33] Speaker 8: But this is information that I've learned from outside of
[2:20:35] Speaker 8: my knowledge of Christ, that I'm curious about that I'd
[2:20:37] Speaker 8: like to see you refute.
[2:20:39] Speaker 2: Can I ask you a question?
[2:20:41] Speaker 3: Sure?
[2:20:43] Speaker 7: What, outside of asking justin have you done to verify
[2:20:48] Speaker 7: that information?
[2:20:50] Speaker 8: This is that I haven't done any Okay, cool, Cool.
[2:20:54] Speaker 7: I'm gonna tell you why I don't. I don't mean
[2:20:56] Speaker 7: this in a mean way. I mean this and I'm
[2:20:58] Speaker 7: currently at work and I love my job, so I'm
[2:21:01] Speaker 7: in such a good mood, so I'm not gonna be
[2:21:03] Speaker 7: mean to you.
[2:21:04] Speaker 8: I don't see why you would be mean. We're having
[2:21:05] Speaker 8: a discussion.
[2:21:06] Speaker 2: I'm a mean person.
[2:21:08] Speaker 8: Well, you know what, I bet you probably are. You
[2:21:12] Speaker 8: know what you're the one who has to live with
[2:21:14] Speaker 8: that every day red neck redneck.
[2:21:15] Speaker 1: You not even you redneck. You don't live with that redneck.
[2:21:19] Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this. You don't have
[2:21:20] Speaker 1: to talk every time Jeff talks. You can just listen sometimes.
[2:21:24] Speaker 7: And I'm gonna tell you something. I have a PhD
[2:21:27] Speaker 7: in Jeff frem End of a species. There's zero about
[2:21:31] Speaker 7: Jeff frem End of a species that you can tell
[2:21:33] Speaker 7: me that I don't already know. So self aware, I'm
[2:21:37] Speaker 7: cool with it. I'm gonna tell you this, and I
[2:21:39] Speaker 7: don't mean it as mean as it's gonna sound.
[2:21:41] Speaker 2: I don't care. I don't care.
[2:21:44] Speaker 7: One iota about you telling us about this numerology thing
[2:21:48] Speaker 7: that you haven't looked into, because it's like you're telling
[2:21:51] Speaker 7: us that there is anchovies in Briar's Vanilla ice cream
[2:21:56] Speaker 7: and and somebody told you that, and then you want
[2:21:58] Speaker 7: to ask me, is anchovies and Briars with alsia? Like
[2:22:03] Speaker 7: I don't care about that.
[2:22:04] Speaker 2: Now.
[2:22:05] Speaker 7: If you have a reason that you have your trust
[2:22:07] Speaker 7: in Jesus, that's interesting to me because that's that presumably
[2:22:10] Speaker 7: you verified the other stuff is boring, like we can
[2:22:13] Speaker 7: refute that by accident, like I literally just holed up
[2:22:17] Speaker 7: the same thing that Justin did and started counting, and
[2:22:20] Speaker 7: I got one hundred and sixty five.
[2:22:22] Speaker 1: So, Jeff, I also did. I had this copy and
[2:22:25] Speaker 1: pasted all the Greek words from Codex Sanaticus for the
[2:22:29] Speaker 1: last twelve verses, and I got one hundred and ninety
[2:22:32] Speaker 1: seven words.
[2:22:34] Speaker 8: Okay, let me make sure probably not one ninety eight
[2:22:38] Speaker 8: is not even close. Well, let's see, let's see if
[2:22:42] Speaker 8: I if I okay, I believe that the first the
[2:22:46] Speaker 8: first starts with from from from from verse nine going.
[2:22:49] Speaker 2: To yeah, from verse nine through twenty.
[2:22:53] Speaker 1: Yep, that's what I caught.
[2:22:54] Speaker 8: Twenty.
[2:22:54] Speaker 1: I copied verse nine to twenty, and then I put
[2:22:57] Speaker 1: it into Google documents, and I told him to do
[2:23:01] Speaker 1: a word count?
[2:23:05] Speaker 8: How many one hundred and six, one hundred and ninety seven?
[2:23:09] Speaker 7: I vault, But Justin accurately counted one ninety seven. And
[2:23:18] Speaker 7: I'm gonna go with Justin's because he put it in
[2:23:20] Speaker 7: a like I'm counting, like pointing with my finger. Uh,
[2:23:25] Speaker 7: He's got the actual count right there in front of us.
[2:23:30] Speaker 7: So do you see why I'm saying that that part
[2:23:32] Speaker 7: is boring? Like me, like I don't wanna, I don't
[2:23:35] Speaker 7: want to tell you that you're like.
[2:23:39] Speaker 9: For a Nigerian prince, it looks like, okay, so is
[2:23:48] Speaker 9: there why is there a discrepency hold on?
[2:23:50] Speaker 1: Somebody's getting a phone call. And I don't know if
[2:23:52] Speaker 1: it's Jeff or Redneck, but if both of you swipe
[2:23:55] Speaker 1: away real quick and come back, we'll make sure we
[2:23:57] Speaker 1: can get it fixed up real quick. So it tries
[2:24:00] Speaker 1: it again, I'm good. I think I think it was Redneck.
[2:24:04] Speaker 1: I assume it wasn't Jesus calling, but if it was,
[2:24:06] Speaker 1: he's telling them that this is a bad argument. But
[2:24:09] Speaker 1: if it was, okay, Redneck, you haven't swiped away yet.
[2:24:12] Speaker 1: Swipe away from the app, go to the home screen
[2:24:15] Speaker 1: of your phone and then open the app back up again,
[2:24:23] Speaker 1: or just leave. I mean, it's just as well he
[2:24:26] Speaker 1: didn't have an argument.
[2:24:30] Speaker 7: Look, I don't I I'm normally super mean about this stuff,
[2:24:36] Speaker 7: but like I feel like when I hear I heard
[2:24:40] Speaker 7: this thing from a guy and I never checked it,
[2:24:42] Speaker 7: I just see people going to Western Union to send
[2:24:45] Speaker 7: two hundred and fifty dollars to some guy in Nigeria.
[2:24:48] Speaker 7: That's what I see in my head because if you
[2:24:51] Speaker 7: didn't check it, but then you're going up in front
[2:24:53] Speaker 7: of did you say two thousand, two thousand people to say,
[2:24:56] Speaker 7: this is the thing that I know, and isn't it
[2:24:58] Speaker 7: cool more then the thing that you can verify by
[2:25:02] Speaker 7: the way I found the phrase the Bible is false
[2:25:05] Speaker 7: and in the library of Bible insanity. But like it's
[2:25:10] Speaker 7: a miracle once once you see that, and you're like, no,
[2:25:15] Speaker 7: this thing that I haven't looked at is so much
[2:25:18] Speaker 7: cooler because it has all of these numbers that I
[2:25:20] Speaker 7: haven't looked at, and I don't know, I just I
[2:25:23] Speaker 7: feel bad. I feel bad for people who who like,
[2:25:28] Speaker 7: you're gonna get conned and scammed in your life over
[2:25:31] Speaker 7: and over and over again.
[2:25:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, and he did, all right, well, hey we got
[2:25:38] Speaker 1: time for another let me grab another guest. We'll pull
[2:25:40] Speaker 1: him in and then we'll do super chats at the end.
[2:25:44] Speaker 1: So let's grab fill up and see what Philip has
[2:25:47] Speaker 1: is saying. I do like doing super chats between the guests,
[2:25:54] Speaker 1: but we talked to that one guest for two hours,
[2:25:56] Speaker 1: and now I know if I start reading super chats now,
[2:25:59] Speaker 1: all the guests will actually leave because it's gonna take
[2:26:01] Speaker 1: like an hour to get through them. So I want
[2:26:03] Speaker 1: to get a guest in here, then we'll do super chats.
[2:26:06] Speaker 1: We'll probably start doing super chats at four o'clock friends,
[2:26:09] Speaker 1: maybe four to ten. We'll try to get a good
[2:26:11] Speaker 1: conversation in here. Though, if Philip can connect, Philip Phillips
[2:26:17] Speaker 1: might not be able to connect. On to move on
[2:26:19] Speaker 1: to the next guest. I don't think Philip can connect.
[2:26:29] Speaker 1: They're on that new mega mobile plan with that fake
[2:26:32] Speaker 1: gold telephone he's selling for like five hundred bucks.
[2:26:37] Speaker 7: Oh my god, that website is a thing of nightmares.
[2:26:44] Speaker 1: I still can't believe that these he didn't connect. All right, Well,
[2:26:47] Speaker 1: we'll move on to Keith. I thought i'd actually just
[2:26:48] Speaker 1: talked to Keith like earlier this week, so this should
[2:26:51] Speaker 1: be a lot of fun. Welcome back, Keith Man.
[2:26:54] Speaker 3: How you doing, guys?
[2:26:55] Speaker 1: Doing good?
[2:26:56] Speaker 3: Keith?
[2:26:58] Speaker 1: I assume he came back because you read something between
[2:27:01] Speaker 1: our last conversation and now and you came to prove
[2:27:05] Speaker 1: me wrong.
[2:27:07] Speaker 3: Well, no, not read something. I was trying to go
[2:27:09] Speaker 3: back up yesterday, but you're what do you call that?
[2:27:12] Speaker 3: Your mod didn't want me to come up because you're
[2:27:15] Speaker 3: reading a super chat. So I was like, I'll be
[2:27:16] Speaker 3: respectful about it. But at my kids with me, so
[2:27:19] Speaker 3: my kids start having fun.
[2:27:20] Speaker 1: See if you get a really really bad echo, can
[2:27:22] Speaker 1: you are you on speakerphone? What's happening over there?
[2:27:26] Speaker 3: Did you give me one second?
[2:27:27] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[2:27:31] Speaker 3: There you go. Good.
[2:27:33] Speaker 1: I think it's good right now?
[2:27:35] Speaker 3: Yeah, sorry, I was on YouTube. Oh right, yeah yeah. Oh.
[2:27:41] Speaker 3: So I would like to do one correction about the
[2:27:45] Speaker 3: Eunich thing yesterday. So you know, Unich is an encompassing term, right.
[2:27:52] Speaker 1: I mean it could be broad. I think the question
[2:27:54] Speaker 1: we're having right now is how did they make unix
[2:27:58] Speaker 1: to the people in Bible Times?
[2:28:02] Speaker 3: Yeah, so from the Middle East. There's actually a giant
[2:28:05] Speaker 3: essay on this as well, so I should refer to
[2:28:07] Speaker 3: my essay. But it was a part of the Kashtrina
[2:28:10] Speaker 3: where it was they castrated by cleaning, cut off both
[2:28:13] Speaker 3: penis and both you know, Genitalia were removed. So that's
[2:28:19] Speaker 3: what I was inferring when I was reading Unich, because
[2:28:25] Speaker 3: that's the essay is actually written by a man who
[2:28:27] Speaker 3: lives in the Middle East who's doing history of the
[2:28:29] Speaker 3: Middle East.
[2:28:30] Speaker 1: So right, but we're talking about the Jews.
[2:28:35] Speaker 3: So the Jews are in the Middle East.
[2:28:39] Speaker 1: I do agree. Do you think that the Jews were doing.
[2:28:41] Speaker 3: That yes, you have both circumstances. So sometimes people will
[2:28:49] Speaker 3: have just the genitalia removed and sometimes it will be both.
[2:28:56] Speaker 3: So that's what the paper was talking about. And then
[2:28:59] Speaker 3: even in other cultures, safer in Chinese, so that's yeah.
[2:29:03] Speaker 3: The definition we're using right now is just the broad
[2:29:06] Speaker 3: the simplistic definition, but historically that's been encompassed both of those.
[2:29:12] Speaker 1: And then back well, I'm saying the word castration can right,
[2:29:15] Speaker 1: and I'm certainly aware that different people groups had different customs.
[2:29:19] Speaker 1: I know that in ancient China there were unis that
[2:29:22] Speaker 1: literally had their penises removed. No one, I don't think
[2:29:24] Speaker 1: anyone's questioning whether or not the word can mean both.
[2:29:28] Speaker 1: I'm suggesting that the Unix of the Bible, when it
[2:29:30] Speaker 1: talks about unix, the majority of the time, they're typically
[2:29:33] Speaker 1: referring to people that have been castrated. But i mean, listen,
[2:29:38] Speaker 1: if you think it refers to people who had their
[2:29:40] Speaker 1: penises cut off, I don't know if that makes it
[2:29:42] Speaker 1: any better.
[2:29:42] Speaker 3: No, no, no, I'm saying both of them. So when I'm
[2:29:46] Speaker 3: reading it, I'm I'm going to do both of them.
[2:29:48] Speaker 3: Because you had the Colt prostitutes and then you just
[2:29:50] Speaker 3: had the generic, So you have those people who were
[2:29:53] Speaker 3: serving in high powacies. So say the story of Meshek
[2:29:57] Speaker 3: and Benego, they were castrated, So it's just be able
[2:30:00] Speaker 3: to distinguish both. But it's an encompassing term. So when
[2:30:04] Speaker 3: I'm using that term, it's encompassing that.
[2:30:06] Speaker 1: So just aheads up, because I don't really know how
[2:30:09] Speaker 1: this fixes the problem. So the question we were having
[2:30:11] Speaker 1: was whether or not eunuchs in the Bible had their
[2:30:13] Speaker 1: penises lopped off or just their balls.
[2:30:17] Speaker 3: No, no, I'm saying in circumstantial, but that the word
[2:30:23] Speaker 3: encompasses both. That's what I'm simply saying.
[2:30:26] Speaker 1: No, the word has a semantic range, and depending on
[2:30:28] Speaker 1: where you lived, it could be one or the other
[2:30:31] Speaker 1: or both. I'm asking for the evidence that among the Jews,
[2:30:36] Speaker 1: castration meant that you would have your thing lopped off.
[2:30:41] Speaker 3: It would be applied to the people around them. So say,
[2:30:44] Speaker 3: for inst the cult prostitutes.
[2:30:46] Speaker 1: But there were no cult prostitutes in Israel. In fact,
[2:30:49] Speaker 1: God specifically forbade It, and the cult prostitutes that would
[2:30:52] Speaker 1: have been in Israel would have been following the customs
[2:30:57] Speaker 1: of their people because they're in Israel.
[2:31:01] Speaker 3: No, no, no, So the people around them because you
[2:31:05] Speaker 3: had sojourners. So the law was supposed to be applied
[2:31:08] Speaker 3: to both the sojourners and the people of Israel.
[2:31:10] Speaker 1: No, I agree. If somebody came from outside the land
[2:31:13] Speaker 1: and they were a cult prostitute, say in Assyria, sure
[2:31:18] Speaker 1: it's possible that according to the local Singyerian custom that
[2:31:21] Speaker 1: they were a body buy, that they got their thing
[2:31:23] Speaker 1: loped off.
[2:31:25] Speaker 3: Correct. And so when they came into the land, when
[2:31:27] Speaker 3: you read Isaiah like you read last time, if they
[2:31:30] Speaker 3: wanted to practice, say friends, leave their old ways, they
[2:31:34] Speaker 3: were also grafted in, so they're able to do.
[2:31:38] Speaker 1: I don't think you understand why Unis were part of
[2:31:40] Speaker 1: the conversation. Do you recall why we're talking about Unis?
[2:31:43] Speaker 3: Yes, because of slavery, and so I don't believe.
[2:31:47] Speaker 1: So maybe I forgot the conversation. I brought up the
[2:31:50] Speaker 1: Unis as far as I recall. U. Shit, I don't
[2:31:53] Speaker 1: even know why I brought up UNIX at this point.
[2:31:55] Speaker 1: So how did how did how do UNIX make slavery? Okay?
[2:31:59] Speaker 1: Is that what you're getting in?
[2:32:00] Speaker 3: Oh? No? No, I didn't say make slavery, okay. I
[2:32:02] Speaker 3: said they were to get freed.
[2:32:04] Speaker 1: So oh, No, that's not certainly the case. You're not
[2:32:06] Speaker 1: on this bad talking point again, are you. No, it's
[2:32:10] Speaker 1: crazy that you think lopping your penis off is going
[2:32:13] Speaker 1: to make you a Hebrew that's allowed to be freed
[2:32:15] Speaker 1: from slavery.
[2:32:17] Speaker 3: No, you're you're kind of strong, straw man, you're straw
[2:32:21] Speaker 3: maning man. So let me clarify.
[2:32:23] Speaker 1: If you don't, I just want to make sure we're
[2:32:25] Speaker 1: on the same page. I'm going to catch everybody up.
[2:32:26] Speaker 1: So you had a crazy theory yesterday or whenever we
[2:32:30] Speaker 1: talked that as long as a foreign slave became an
[2:32:33] Speaker 1: Israelite they could be freed. Great, that's not in the Bible.
[2:32:39] Speaker 3: Okay, So I would like for you to turn to Leviticus.
[2:32:46] Speaker 3: What is it, Leviticus twenty five.
[2:32:50] Speaker 1: That's I'm glad you brought it up. Let's let's do
[2:32:52] Speaker 1: Leviticus twenty five. They never learned. Yeah, what's specifically a
[2:33:00] Speaker 1: US twenty five? If you want to talk about verses
[2:33:02] Speaker 1: thirty nine to forty four.
[2:33:05] Speaker 3: No, actually ten through yeah, just ten.
[2:33:11] Speaker 1: These are addressing actual Hebrew people. Says you shall you
[2:33:15] Speaker 1: shall hollow in the fiftieth year, and you shall proclaim
[2:33:18] Speaker 1: liberty throughout the land. To all of its inhabitants. It
[2:33:21] Speaker 1: shall be a jubilee for you.
[2:33:24] Speaker 3: So it says all the inhabitants, right, does that exclude anybody?
[2:33:29] Speaker 3: Or is that all because he is an encomforting word? Right?
[2:33:32] Speaker 1: Do you know what the jubilee was, Yeah, the fiftieth year, right?
[2:33:37] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[2:33:37] Speaker 1: And what happens in the jubilee.
[2:33:39] Speaker 3: And the jubilee each of you shall return to his property,
[2:33:43] Speaker 3: and each of you shall return to his clan.
[2:33:45] Speaker 1: There you go. It's about property in clans right.
[2:33:49] Speaker 3: Now, quick question, how does the Bible describe clans as being.
[2:33:55] Speaker 1: The clans are of the Israelite clans?
[2:33:58] Speaker 3: No, it is not, it is no, it's not. So
[2:34:01] Speaker 3: if you were to go to Genesis chapter seventeen and
[2:34:03] Speaker 3: verse fourteen, any uncircumcised the clans didn't exist yet, then
[2:34:09] Speaker 3: yes they were.
[2:34:10] Speaker 1: They they did not.
[2:34:13] Speaker 3: I would I'll actually disregard that. So Genesis ten, verse
[2:34:18] Speaker 3: twenty the Hebrew clans did not exist yet, you're only
[2:34:23] Speaker 3: using that as the Hebrew clans. But the law is to.
[2:34:26] Speaker 1: This is addressing. This is addressing or the Hebrews. Leviticus
[2:34:30] Speaker 1: twenty five is instructions for the Hebrews, all.
[2:34:33] Speaker 3: The people of the land. Yes, the Hebrews no, no, no.
[2:34:37] Speaker 3: So were the gentiles allowed to practice they how they
[2:34:40] Speaker 3: wanted to win the land, or they were subjected to
[2:34:42] Speaker 3: the law of the land.
[2:34:43] Speaker 1: They were subjected to the law of the land.
[2:34:45] Speaker 3: All the land. So that means everyone. When it says
[2:34:48] Speaker 3: all inhabitants, that doesn't exclude the people who are soljiernings.
[2:34:51] Speaker 1: All right, try to actually follow what I'm saying this time. Okay,
[2:34:55] Speaker 1: who in the land is allowed to have ancestral proper
[2:35:00] Speaker 1: passed down from generation to generation? And who does God
[2:35:05] Speaker 1: specifically make laws for so that they won't lose their property?
[2:35:10] Speaker 3: Yet? But I'm not talking about property. I'm talking about clans.
[2:35:12] Speaker 1: I'm talking about properties and clans. So I answer the question.
[2:35:16] Speaker 3: So that's a distinguishing right and means what it's a
[2:35:19] Speaker 3: distinguishing marker. So properties are separate from clans and clans.
[2:35:24] Speaker 1: I said, properties and clans? Which people group? Which people group?
[2:35:30] Speaker 1: Keith in the Old Testament, does God specifically lay out
[2:35:34] Speaker 1: laws protecting them so that they won't lose their ancestral
[2:35:38] Speaker 1: property which is given according to their clan, the.
[2:35:43] Speaker 3: Properties giving towards the clan. That's encompassing. So it's talking about.
[2:35:46] Speaker 1: The I said, who, what people group? Which ones? Which
[2:35:50] Speaker 1: people group does God give specific laws to that prevents
[2:35:56] Speaker 1: them from losing their ancestral property, property that was distributed
[2:36:01] Speaker 1: by clan.
[2:36:03] Speaker 3: Yeah it's the jew thank you.
[2:36:05] Speaker 1: That's the right word. Okay, So the Jews. So God
[2:36:08] Speaker 1: is concerned in the sabbatical year and in the year
[2:36:11] Speaker 1: of Jubilee about the people returning to their properties.
[2:36:16] Speaker 3: And yes, of the Israelites, No, it's not the Israelites
[2:36:21] Speaker 3: on men, the Israelites. No, it's not. That's what I'm saying.
[2:36:25] Speaker 1: It's the Israelites. You want me to show you where?
[2:36:28] Speaker 3: No, no, no, you're not listening. So you remember when
[2:36:32] Speaker 3: I said Abraham was a Hebrew.
[2:36:34] Speaker 1: Where just like last time we talked, the more you talk,
[2:36:40] Speaker 1: the silly, the more silly you look when I show
[2:36:42] Speaker 1: you why you're wrong. So it's up to you how
[2:36:44] Speaker 1: silly you want to look.
[2:36:46] Speaker 3: The scholars even agree upon me with this.
[2:36:48] Speaker 1: They actually don't.
[2:36:49] Speaker 3: Yes they do.
[2:36:50] Speaker 1: No they don't, Yes they do they don't.
[2:36:56] Speaker 3: Who which scholar would you like to quote?
[2:36:57] Speaker 1: My man? I'm just going to show you right now
[2:36:59] Speaker 1: while you're wrong.
[2:37:00] Speaker 3: So the scholars don't, so your your contrary. So which
[2:37:02] Speaker 3: scholar would you like to quote?
[2:37:04] Speaker 1: I would quote uh. For example, Jacob Milgram. He wrote
[2:37:07] Speaker 1: probably the most famous uh extract UH commentary on Leviticus ever.
[2:37:13] Speaker 1: In fact, if you read any commentary on Leviticus, they're
[2:37:16] Speaker 1: going to quote you from Jacob Milgram's commentary. You could
[2:37:19] Speaker 1: also read like Nahum Sarnum or Brooke Levigne or ship
[2:37:24] Speaker 1: David David W. Baker. I mean, there's lots of Old
[2:37:28] Speaker 1: Testament scholars who have written on the book Liviticus. And
[2:37:31] Speaker 1: these are like real scholars, not like some guy you
[2:37:34] Speaker 1: found on the Internet.
[2:37:37] Speaker 3: And they talk about this particular topic.
[2:37:39] Speaker 1: Yeah, they sure do. And do you want to do
[2:37:40] Speaker 1: you want to see why it's referring to the Israelites
[2:37:43] Speaker 1: or not?
[2:37:43] Speaker 3: Quote? So which what's the name of scholar?
[2:37:46] Speaker 1: Do you want to see why from the Bible why
[2:37:48] Speaker 1: it's referring to Israelites?
[2:37:50] Speaker 3: Yes?
[2:37:50] Speaker 1: Or no?
[2:37:52] Speaker 3: I've already read the Lama Man, That's what I'm saying,
[2:37:54] Speaker 3: So I'll just read it to you.
[2:37:56] Speaker 1: If any who are dependent upon you become so impoverised
[2:38:00] Speaker 1: that they sell themselves to you, you shall not make
[2:38:02] Speaker 1: them serve as slaves. They shall remain with you as
[2:38:05] Speaker 1: hired or bound laborers. They shall serve with you until
[2:38:08] Speaker 1: the year of Jubilee. Okay, So these are people that
[2:38:12] Speaker 1: are going to serve with you until the year of
[2:38:13] Speaker 1: Jubilee follow And they're not slaves. They're hired or bound laborers. Right,
[2:38:19] Speaker 1: they've became poor. Now they're bound labors. Right. Wait, can
[2:38:22] Speaker 1: you say that again, they're bound laborers.
[2:38:26] Speaker 3: Can you say it again?
[2:38:28] Speaker 1: They're not slaves, they are bound laborers, yes, sir, Okay,
[2:38:37] Speaker 1: Then they and their children with them shall go out
[2:38:39] Speaker 1: from your authority. They shall go back to their own
[2:38:42] Speaker 1: family and return to their ancestral property. So again, this
[2:38:46] Speaker 1: chapter is about the ancestral property. Now you might be
[2:38:50] Speaker 1: asking of who what tells you? For they are my
[2:38:53] Speaker 1: servants who I brought out of the land of Egypt.
[2:38:57] Speaker 1: Those are Hebrews. The Hebrews came out of the land
[2:39:00] Speaker 1: of Egypt. God is concerned for the ancestral property of
[2:39:04] Speaker 1: the Hebrews. That's what the Year of Jubilee is about.
[2:39:12] Speaker 1: That's why he goes on to tell you about the
[2:39:16] Speaker 1: slaves that you can actually possess forever. That's why he
[2:39:19] Speaker 1: says in verse forty six, of the foreigners, not the Hebrews.
[2:39:23] Speaker 1: You may keep them as a possession for your children
[2:39:26] Speaker 1: after them, for you to inherit as property. And again
[2:39:31] Speaker 1: in the Hebrew keith, I don't know if you know this.
[2:39:34] Speaker 1: I'll tell you again. They cannot hear you when you
[2:39:38] Speaker 1: talk while I'm talking. My mic is louder than yours.
[2:39:40] Speaker 1: Every time you talk while I'm talking, you're wasting every
[2:39:44] Speaker 1: single breath that leaves your lips. So if you want
[2:39:47] Speaker 1: me to read what you want to read, you have
[2:39:50] Speaker 1: to wait for me to stop talking. So now forty
[2:39:56] Speaker 1: four starts a section that is detailing if you can't
[2:40:00] Speaker 1: own your own fellow Hebrews as slaves, who can you
[2:40:03] Speaker 1: own the slaves? And he tells you as for the
[2:40:07] Speaker 1: male and female slaves who you may have, it is
[2:40:10] Speaker 1: from the nations around you that you may acquire male
[2:40:13] Speaker 1: and female slaves, and then also from their children, and
[2:40:17] Speaker 1: so on and so forth. And how long can you
[2:40:20] Speaker 1: keep them? Forever? You may keep them as a possession
[2:40:24] Speaker 1: for your children after you, for them to inherit as
[2:40:27] Speaker 1: property Leolam forever.
[2:40:34] Speaker 3: And that's why I said it. Distinguishings, right, is a distinguisher.
[2:40:38] Speaker 1: There's a distinguishing between the Israelites and the non Israelites.
[2:40:42] Speaker 1: The non Israelites can be slaves forever. The Israelites are
[2:40:46] Speaker 1: in fact slaves temporarily.
[2:40:49] Speaker 3: And so it says property right when I'm using the.
[2:40:52] Speaker 1: Term, yes, they become your property, okay.
[2:40:57] Speaker 3: And so clan and nation. Is there a distinguisher between
[2:41:02] Speaker 3: clan and nation and Genesis.
[2:41:04] Speaker 1: It depends on which book of the Bible. So in
[2:41:06] Speaker 1: Genesis you could say there's a distinguishing between the clans
[2:41:09] Speaker 1: and the nation because the nation of Israel had multiple clans.
[2:41:14] Speaker 3: So that's what I'm saying. If you were to go
[2:41:16] Speaker 3: to Genesis, chapter ten, verse twenty, these are the sons
[2:41:20] Speaker 3: of Ham by their clans. So when I'm saying, if
[2:41:24] Speaker 3: they're is slaves in the Hebrew around them, on the
[2:41:29] Speaker 3: year of Jubilee, they were released back to their clans.
[2:41:32] Speaker 1: Only you are Hebrew.
[2:41:37] Speaker 3: It's not only Hebrew Man, it's only Hebrews. It's just
[2:41:41] Speaker 3: like instance.
[2:41:42] Speaker 1: We'll try this again, because I know you weren't listening
[2:41:44] Speaker 1: the first time I read it. I always have to
[2:41:46] Speaker 1: read this five times, so I'll do it like really
[2:41:49] Speaker 1: slowly this time.
[2:41:50] Speaker 3: Right.
[2:41:50] Speaker 1: It says, then they and their children with them shall
[2:41:54] Speaker 1: go out from your authority. They shall go back to
[2:41:57] Speaker 1: their own family and return to their ancestral For this
[2:42:01] Speaker 1: is the because for they are my servants whom I
[2:42:06] Speaker 1: brought out of the lands of Egypt. Those are all Israelites.
[2:42:10] Speaker 1: He didn't bring the foreigners out of the land of Egypt.
[2:42:13] Speaker 1: He brought the Israelites out of the land of Egypt.
[2:42:16] Speaker 1: The Israelites are the ones that go back to their
[2:42:19] Speaker 1: ancestral property. The foreigners are your property. They are your
[2:42:24] Speaker 1: slaves forever.
[2:42:27] Speaker 3: And I'm saying when it says clans, you're with the properties.
[2:42:33] Speaker 3: The properties are default within what within their clans, that's
[2:42:37] Speaker 3: a default.
[2:42:38] Speaker 1: Okay, here's what you're gonna do, Keith, because you did
[2:42:41] Speaker 1: this last time I talked. You're going to address the
[2:42:44] Speaker 1: point that I raised and stop pivoting to a new point.
[2:42:47] Speaker 1: Why did God say about these people that they came
[2:42:50] Speaker 1: out of the land of Egypt. Why did he say that?
[2:42:53] Speaker 1: And who came out of Egypt?
[2:42:57] Speaker 3: The children of Israel?
[2:42:58] Speaker 1: Okay? Did he say that the people are going to
[2:43:02] Speaker 1: go back to their land because they are God's people
[2:43:05] Speaker 1: who he brought out of the land of Egypt. Yes, okay.
[2:43:10] Speaker 1: Did he bring anybody out of Egypt that weren't Israelites.
[2:43:15] Speaker 3: Yes, who anyone who wanted to come.
[2:43:21] Speaker 1: Show me that in the book, show me where it
[2:43:23] Speaker 1: says that non Israelites left. I shit. It might be
[2:43:28] Speaker 1: that it were not told, but many did. I'd even
[2:43:31] Speaker 1: believe it if the exodus was real. I believe that
[2:43:33] Speaker 1: there was some Egyptians that were like, I'm going to
[2:43:35] Speaker 1: get the fuck out of here. But I don't think
[2:43:38] Speaker 1: that the Bible actually says that.
[2:43:43] Speaker 3: Uh oh, is that right? Up? I'm sorry one moment,
[2:43:51] Speaker 3: Daddy duty to give you a second.
[2:44:09] Speaker 1: Some people never learn. I thought Keith was going to
[2:44:18] Speaker 1: come back on a new topic. I did not did
[2:44:23] Speaker 1: not know He's going to come up and try to
[2:44:24] Speaker 1: get cooked on the same topic. Oh boy, And yes
[2:44:41] Speaker 1: they were. Who show show me in the Bible?
[2:44:45] Speaker 3: Shit?
[2:44:45] Speaker 1: You might be right, I just need to see it.
[2:44:50] Speaker 3: Where is it the fleeing slaves and not return the
[2:44:53] Speaker 3: slaves to their masters.
[2:44:58] Speaker 1: That's a whole different passage. You're referring to Deuteronomy fifteen
[2:45:05] Speaker 1: twenty three. I think that doesn't say what you wanted to.
[2:45:10] Speaker 3: Say that the gentiles. Anyone who was believing were encompassed
[2:45:17] Speaker 3: within the children of.
[2:45:17] Speaker 1: Israel didn't say anything like that. Actually, so do not.
[2:45:24] Speaker 3: Return the slaves to the their masters, because you were
[2:45:29] Speaker 3: once sojourners in a So it doesn't say that.
[2:45:36] Speaker 1: Not the way you think it does. It doesn't say
[2:45:37] Speaker 1: do not return a slave to his master, not the
[2:45:41] Speaker 1: way you said it. Why to see what it actually says, boy, okay,
[2:45:46] Speaker 1: all read it to you. Actually, first of all, it's
[2:45:48] Speaker 1: referring to foreigners, and second of all it's not. I
[2:45:51] Speaker 1: don't think it's referring to runaway slaves, and neither did
[2:45:54] Speaker 1: the ancient rabbis think that as well. The ancient Hebrew
[2:45:58] Speaker 1: rabbis agree with me on this particular topics. So what
[2:46:01] Speaker 1: we find in Deuteronomy, I'll show it. There we go,
[2:46:07] Speaker 1: Deuteronomy twenty three fifteen I said fifteen twenty three. I
[2:46:10] Speaker 1: got that backwards twenty three fifteen. Now, in some English
[2:46:14] Speaker 1: translations it might say something akin to you shall not
[2:46:17] Speaker 1: turn over to the master a slave who has been
[2:46:19] Speaker 1: delivered to you from his master. But this is not
[2:46:22] Speaker 1: only generic, it's slightly deceptive, because what it actually says
[2:46:26] Speaker 1: in the original Hebrew is you should not turn over
[2:46:30] Speaker 1: to the master a slave who has been delivered or
[2:46:34] Speaker 1: given to you by its master. It's not a runaway slave.
[2:46:42] Speaker 1: It's a slave who has been delivered to you, meaning
[2:46:48] Speaker 1: it's a slave who was purchased, who is emancipated, and
[2:46:53] Speaker 1: a foreigner at that, which is why it says such
[2:46:56] Speaker 1: individuals will live with you in any place that they meet,
[2:46:58] Speaker 1: choose among the settlements amits, wherever they please. You must
[2:47:01] Speaker 1: not ill treat them because they're foreigners, and the ancient
[2:47:05] Speaker 1: rabbis agree. Kud a Sheen in the Talmud says, this
[2:47:08] Speaker 1: verse is speaking of one who acquires a slave not
[2:47:11] Speaker 1: to enslave him, but in order to emancipate him. Yevmtt
[2:47:15] Speaker 1: ninety three says this verse is speaking of the one
[2:47:18] Speaker 1: who buys a slave on the condition to free him
[2:47:21] Speaker 1: gooteen forty five. This verse is speaking of one who
[2:47:24] Speaker 1: acquires a slave in order to emancipate him. And you
[2:47:27] Speaker 1: might be answering or asking why would someone buy a
[2:47:30] Speaker 1: slave in order to emancipate them, because almost fifty percent
[2:47:34] Speaker 1: of slave purchases in the ancient world, a lot of
[2:47:38] Speaker 1: them were actually adoptions. You would purchase a slave, you
[2:47:41] Speaker 1: would adopt them out of slavery, and then you can
[2:47:45] Speaker 1: use them in your household if you didn't have a
[2:47:47] Speaker 1: son or daughter. In fact, if you needed a daughter
[2:47:50] Speaker 1: and you couldn't find a daughter, you could adopt a
[2:47:52] Speaker 1: slave and make her a daughter. If you needed a son,
[2:47:55] Speaker 1: you could adopt a slave and make her a son.
[2:47:57] Speaker 1: But part of the rules of slave adopts is once
[2:48:01] Speaker 1: you adopted them into your household, you couldn't return them
[2:48:04] Speaker 1: to slavery. You couldn't do it. Now. You could also
[2:48:10] Speaker 1: just set them free. Of course, you could just emancipate them,
[2:48:13] Speaker 1: which is what the ancient rabbis thought was happening.
[2:48:18] Speaker 3: They thought that would happening now.
[2:48:21] Speaker 1: Most modern scholars will tell you that this could refer
[2:48:24] Speaker 1: to a runaway slave, but specifically a foreign runaway slave,
[2:48:29] Speaker 1: because most of the ancients had like these national agreements
[2:48:33] Speaker 1: with the neighborings other nations, saying, if one of your
[2:48:36] Speaker 1: slaves runs away to me, I'll return it. If one
[2:48:39] Speaker 1: of my slaves runaways to you, you return it, and
[2:48:42] Speaker 1: then here's the reward or penalty for such behavior. Israel
[2:48:45] Speaker 1: didn't have anything like that. Israel did have a runaway
[2:48:49] Speaker 1: slave or did have a procedure for gathering runaway slaves,
[2:48:55] Speaker 1: and in fact we see it in Second Kings. In
[2:48:58] Speaker 1: Second Kings, there's a guy named Shamai who has run
[2:49:01] Speaker 1: away slaves. They go all the way down to the
[2:49:04] Speaker 1: area of the Philistines, and he goes down there to
[2:49:07] Speaker 1: retrieve them. It's in let me grab you the passage.
[2:49:22] Speaker 1: It's going to be First Kings two thirty nine, Sorry,
[2:49:32] Speaker 1: not Second Kings. First Kings, Chapter two, verse thirty nine
[2:49:36] Speaker 1: is where we find that. So, yeah, this nonsense about
[2:49:40] Speaker 1: how slaves could just run away and get their freedom,
[2:49:42] Speaker 1: that's not a thing that actually existed. There we go two,
[2:49:49] Speaker 1: let's grab thirty nine. But it happened at the end
[2:49:52] Speaker 1: of three years that two of Samai's slaves ran away
[2:49:54] Speaker 1: to King Akish, son of Maka of Goth. When it
[2:49:58] Speaker 1: was told to Shamai, your slaves are in Goth, sham
[2:50:01] Speaker 1: I arose, sattled a donkey, and went to Akish in
[2:50:04] Speaker 1: Goth to search for his slaves. Shamai went and brought
[2:50:07] Speaker 1: his slaves from God. That was an Israelite. He was
[2:50:10] Speaker 1: doing what people were doing at the time period, namely
[2:50:13] Speaker 1: retrieving their runaway slaves.
[2:50:17] Speaker 3: But again I'm talking about the freeing of slave gentiles.
[2:50:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, there there's no there's nothing in the Bible that
[2:50:23] Speaker 1: says you can sleep free your gentile slaves.
[2:50:28] Speaker 3: Yet when they convert.
[2:50:30] Speaker 1: Nope, doesn't say that.
[2:50:32] Speaker 3: You're considered a Jew. Once you convert, you're not.
[2:50:36] Speaker 1: You're still a foreigner living in the land. Just because
[2:50:40] Speaker 1: you're following the law of the land, does it mean
[2:50:42] Speaker 1: you're part of their people. That's why your property says
[2:50:45] Speaker 1: your property and your property forever, which again you've never addressed.
[2:50:49] Speaker 1: We've read it ten times. You have never addressed the
[2:50:53] Speaker 1: fact that it says that they will be your property forever.
[2:50:56] Speaker 1: Address that.
[2:50:58] Speaker 3: Yeah, if they remain within their Sayfrience cultural announces, they're
[2:51:02] Speaker 3: stuck there. But if you were to get circumcised and
[2:51:05] Speaker 3: become a Jew, you are now underneath the Jewish law.
[2:51:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, but you don't become a Jew.
[2:51:11] Speaker 3: Yet by being circumcised.
[2:51:13] Speaker 1: Man, No, you don't.
[2:51:15] Speaker 3: So say, friends with Abraham, You'll notice when you go
[2:51:19] Speaker 3: to Abraham when he's talking about circumcision, God gives explicit,
[2:51:23] Speaker 3: explicit directions to Abraham. If any of the slaves among
[2:51:26] Speaker 3: you circums, yes, if there, if they refuse to be circumcised,
[2:51:33] Speaker 3: they are now cut off. Yeah, you kill them slave, right, Yeah,
[2:51:38] Speaker 3: you kill them. No, it's not it's not being killed,
[2:51:42] Speaker 3: you know. It means killed.
[2:51:43] Speaker 1: It explicitly tells you in Leviticus that when people are
[2:51:47] Speaker 1: taken out and stoned, it says cut off. It says
[2:51:51] Speaker 1: their guilt will be a bond them.
[2:51:53] Speaker 3: Yeah, we know of no, no cut off has it's
[2:51:57] Speaker 3: an encompassing term.
[2:51:59] Speaker 2: I don't think you know all that means.
[2:52:02] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an encompassing term. So just like I was saying,
[2:52:06] Speaker 3: a hey, what do you call that a eunuch, there's differencing.
[2:52:11] Speaker 3: There's different factors with being a eunuch. To be cut
[2:52:14] Speaker 3: off does not mean, oh, you'll be cut off as
[2:52:19] Speaker 3: in being killed, killed a part of that. But you
[2:52:22] Speaker 3: can be oxercised from the community, as in being kicked
[2:52:25] Speaker 3: out or set out of the community. So say, friends,
[2:52:29] Speaker 3: when people were breaking the law, they would be put
[2:52:31] Speaker 3: out of when there's children of Israel were in the desert,
[2:52:35] Speaker 3: when they were cut off from me, set apart, they
[2:52:39] Speaker 3: pushed them out of the community for a certain time period,
[2:52:41] Speaker 3: and then you're reinstitutionalized after a cleansing period.
[2:52:46] Speaker 1: Doesn't say that, Nope, rungen.
[2:52:50] Speaker 3: The work.
[2:52:50] Speaker 1: Cut off from the people, it means that you've been
[2:52:52] Speaker 1: removed from the people, and quite often it means that
[2:52:54] Speaker 1: you were killed. Doesn't always mean that you're killed off,
[2:52:57] Speaker 1: but it certainly does quite.
[2:52:58] Speaker 3: Often mean that you were. Okay, hey, that's what I'm saying.
[2:53:01] Speaker 3: You're saying it's meaning that directly, but I'm saying, no,
[2:53:04] Speaker 3: it doesn't.
[2:53:05] Speaker 1: It doesn't. You're show you where.
[2:53:09] Speaker 3: If anyone refuse to be circumcised, they will be killed.
[2:53:15] Speaker 1: No, I didn't say they'll be killed to be cut off.
[2:53:18] Speaker 1: What I'm saying is that in the in the Bible,
[2:53:20] Speaker 1: the word the phrase cut off means you're removed from
[2:53:23] Speaker 1: your people, and quite often it also quite often, Keith,
[2:53:28] Speaker 1: I don't know why you're talking. While I'm talking, no
[2:53:30] Speaker 1: one hears you. It oftough also often means, especially in
[2:53:33] Speaker 1: the book Leviticus, that you're going to get stoned because
[2:53:37] Speaker 1: you killed somebody outside of the city, outside cut off
[2:53:41] Speaker 1: from the people. That's why it says that you'll cut
[2:53:43] Speaker 1: them off and they'll be stoned and their blood will
[2:53:46] Speaker 1: be upon them. I'm not saying every time a person
[2:53:49] Speaker 1: was cut off from the people that they're going to die.
[2:53:52] Speaker 1: What I'm saying is that people who don't get circumcised
[2:53:56] Speaker 1: get removed from the community and or there they get killed.
[2:54:00] Speaker 1: I don't I don't think it matters if they get killed.
[2:54:02] Speaker 1: But you're still missing the point because being circumcised as
[2:54:06] Speaker 1: a slave is non optional. That's why the priests have
[2:54:10] Speaker 1: to make sure all of their slaves are in fact circumcised.
[2:54:14] Speaker 1: They don't not become slaves once you circumcise them.
[2:54:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, that was verse.
[2:54:22] Speaker 7: Can we go to the hold on, hold on? I want
[2:54:24] Speaker 7: to say, in Genesis seventeen, when Abraham is told to
[2:54:28] Speaker 7: circumcise his slaves, is there a second command that says,
[2:54:32] Speaker 7: then set them free? Or Genesis seventeen, that's what you're
[2:54:41] Speaker 7: referring to when God says to Abraham to circumcise all
[2:54:45] Speaker 7: of his slaves.
[2:54:46] Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, he tells them to circumcise his slaves. But
[2:54:50] Speaker 3: if you go to Genesis seventeen, verse fourteen, and any
[2:54:53] Speaker 3: males who is not circumcised's.
[2:54:55] Speaker 7: Talk about the ones that are. Let's talk about the
[2:54:57] Speaker 7: ones that are. Are they freed? Kah ooh, okay, So
[2:55:06] Speaker 7: I don't I don't know what we're I don't know
[2:55:08] Speaker 7: what we're what we're doing.
[2:55:09] Speaker 1: It's okay. Keith is concussed. He has no idea what
[2:55:11] Speaker 1: he's doing.
[2:55:25] Speaker 3: I think it.
[2:55:25] Speaker 1: What he's trying to say is that once you become circumcised,
[2:55:28] Speaker 1: you're no longer a slave because you're an Israelite. But
[2:55:30] Speaker 1: that's just not in the book.
[2:55:39] Speaker 7: But if that were true, then abraham slaves would have
[2:55:42] Speaker 7: been freed if Yeah, they once they were, but.
[2:55:47] Speaker 1: They certainly weren't. Yeah, if you're a foreign slave in
[2:55:59] Speaker 1: his rule, you're a foreign slave, and you're a foreign
[2:56:03] Speaker 1: slave for life. And he's gone. I've never heard someone.
[2:56:13] Speaker 1: Oh he's come back. We'll see what I have to
[2:56:15] Speaker 1: say about this.
[2:56:18] Speaker 3: There you go. Sorry, I had audio issues. Yeah, And
[2:56:22] Speaker 3: so I was saying, yeah, if you're a foreign slave
[2:56:25] Speaker 3: in the sense of you're still practicing the way you practice, yeah,
[2:56:28] Speaker 3: you're you're stuck to bounce. But doesn't say that in
[2:56:30] Speaker 3: the book.
[2:56:34] Speaker 1: Not only not only does it not say that in
[2:56:36] Speaker 1: the book, it doesn't even make it better, because all
[2:56:39] Speaker 1: you're saying is that it's okay to enslave people as
[2:56:41] Speaker 1: long as they don't believe what you believe.
[2:56:45] Speaker 3: No, are you talking about like our modern version of slavery.
[2:56:49] Speaker 1: Uh, there's literally no difference between the Translantic slave trade
[2:56:52] Speaker 1: and what we see in the Bible.
[2:56:54] Speaker 3: No, So say, are you saying like cattle slavery because
[2:56:57] Speaker 3: that's exactly what chattel slavery.
[2:56:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, when somebody becomes your property for life, they're not
[2:57:02] Speaker 1: free to leave, and they have to do what you
[2:57:03] Speaker 1: tell them where you beat them with a stick. That's
[2:57:05] Speaker 1: what the Bible says you can do. Uh my man,
[2:57:11] Speaker 1: It's like you weren't even listening the first time we talked.
[2:57:13] Speaker 1: What do you think the chattle slavey is?
[2:57:16] Speaker 3: So? Chattle slavery is when you go out and you
[2:57:19] Speaker 3: grab somebody, right, No, that's literally what cattle chattle slavery means.
[2:57:25] Speaker 1: No, that's not what it means.
[2:57:29] Speaker 3: It does.
[2:57:30] Speaker 1: No, it doesn't how much you want to how much
[2:57:32] Speaker 1: money you want to put on it.
[2:57:35] Speaker 3: Chattle.
[2:57:37] Speaker 1: I've never seen someone so confident and knows so little.
[2:57:44] Speaker 3: Like they even say this all one's very clearly they
[2:57:46] Speaker 3: say there's a difference between historical slavery versus.
[2:57:49] Speaker 1: What do you think the word chattle even means? Are
[2:57:56] Speaker 1: you aware that that chattle is a modifier for the
[2:57:59] Speaker 1: world slavery?
[2:58:04] Speaker 3: Do worries it out slavery? Dog on it?
[2:58:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, dog gone it. It came up with the definition
[2:58:13] Speaker 1: that's not yours. I know chattle means property Keith shadow slavery,
[2:58:23] Speaker 1: which means if you're a chattel slave, you are a
[2:58:26] Speaker 1: slave as property, you're someone's property.
[2:58:33] Speaker 3: Okay, right here, there's actually a whole article on it
[2:58:39] Speaker 3: as well.
[2:58:41] Speaker 1: You don't need a whole article, you just need a
[2:58:42] Speaker 1: definition sattle slavery and what is the difference between chattle slavery?
[2:58:47] Speaker 1: Slow down, Keith, slow down. We asked you for a definition.
[2:58:50] Speaker 1: Give me the definition and.
[2:58:52] Speaker 3: Saying, look, the institution of slavery has been taken various
[2:58:55] Speaker 3: forms throughout history.
[2:58:56] Speaker 1: Keith, I'm gonna need you to stop yapping about the
[2:58:59] Speaker 1: article you found. We can address that next. The first
[2:59:02] Speaker 1: thing we're going to do is talk about the definition
[2:59:06] Speaker 1: of chattel slave. That's where we're at. I know that, like,
[2:59:10] Speaker 1: you're really uncomfortable right now because you just looked up
[2:59:12] Speaker 1: the definition and that doesn't say what you wanted to say.
[2:59:15] Speaker 1: And now you found an article that things is going
[2:59:17] Speaker 1: to help you, but it's not going to help you.
[2:59:19] Speaker 1: So try to focus. We can get to whatever bs
[2:59:23] Speaker 1: claims are in your article next. Right now, we're talking
[2:59:26] Speaker 1: about what the word chattel slave means. Can you focus
[2:59:30] Speaker 1: on that for a moment.
[2:59:37] Speaker 3: It's to say, friends, go capture somebody and make them hear.
[2:59:40] Speaker 1: Tell me where that definition is, because a definition from
[2:59:47] Speaker 1: dictionary dot com, from Miriam Webster, from literally everywhere else
[2:59:52] Speaker 1: as a chattel slave is a slave owned as property.
[2:59:56] Speaker 7: Keith, can I ask you a question. Yeah, when our
[2:59:59] Speaker 7: p were slaves and they were bred the children of
[3:00:05] Speaker 7: those slaves, where they also chattel slaves?
[3:00:09] Speaker 3: Yeah, they had no rights rights.
[3:00:13] Speaker 7: Did anybody go anywhere to capture those children? Or were
[3:00:16] Speaker 7: they just born as slaves?
[3:00:18] Speaker 3: They were born as slaves, but the encompassation.
[3:00:21] Speaker 7: Look aside from that, they did have rights, they just didn't.
[3:00:25] Speaker 7: They just weren't treated as people like they had.
[3:00:29] Speaker 3: They had no rights they they did. What rights did
[3:00:36] Speaker 3: the slave have?
[3:00:37] Speaker 7: There were there were laws on the books where you
[3:00:39] Speaker 7: couldn't unalive a slave. There were laws on the books
[3:00:42] Speaker 7: where you couldn't be like overly harsh to a slave. Now,
[3:00:47] Speaker 7: whether or not they followed that.
[3:00:49] Speaker 3: Everywhere, those laws were actually sourced from.
[3:00:52] Speaker 1: Where they have the law codes like the Virginia's slave
[3:00:56] Speaker 1: laws are maybe the most popular example. But we have
[3:00:59] Speaker 1: law codes from the time period telling you what you
[3:01:01] Speaker 1: can and cannot do with your slaves.
[3:01:05] Speaker 7: But that's not the point. The point is you said
[3:01:08] Speaker 7: that a chattel slave is a slave that you go
[3:01:10] Speaker 7: out and go capture and bring them back. But nobody
[3:01:14] Speaker 7: captured the kids. They were chattle.
[3:01:20] Speaker 3: Their parents, right, were captured, and.
[3:01:23] Speaker 2: So because their parents were, the kids were not.
[3:01:28] Speaker 3: So what are you saying when someone's born, they're just
[3:01:31] Speaker 3: instantly a slave?
[3:01:34] Speaker 2: No?
[3:01:35] Speaker 7: Typically, No, Look, there is a there are scenarios where
[3:01:38] Speaker 7: somebody is a slave and their kids are not slaves.
[3:01:41] Speaker 3: Right, that's possible, right, Yeah, it's a possible scenario.
[3:01:44] Speaker 7: But in this case, in this case, the kids were
[3:01:48] Speaker 7: slaves and they were still considered chattle. Chattel just means property.
[3:01:53] Speaker 3: Yeah, but when I'm using chattel slavery, I'm making a distinction,
[3:01:57] Speaker 3: so I'm not just using the good.
[3:02:00] Speaker 7: It's an idiosyncratic distinction. And actually it's one we're not
[3:02:04] Speaker 7: even thirty days away from Juneteenth, and it's one that's
[3:02:06] Speaker 7: starting to irritate me. What is the point that you're
[3:02:09] Speaker 7: trying to make, Like, what's your overarching point?
[3:02:11] Speaker 1: What he wants to say is that the African American
[3:02:13] Speaker 1: slavetory is different than what was in the Bible, but
[3:02:15] Speaker 1: it's not going to work.
[3:02:17] Speaker 7: Well, Let's say let's say I grant that Are you
[3:02:19] Speaker 7: saying that there's some type of slavery that's nice?
[3:02:26] Speaker 3: So people go to jail and they're forced to do laboring,
[3:02:29] Speaker 3: is that slavery?
[3:02:30] Speaker 2: That's jail?
[3:02:31] Speaker 7: I'm just asking you there's some type of book. Look,
[3:02:34] Speaker 7: you're not gonna no, that's not what I'm saying. If
[3:02:36] Speaker 7: I would, if that was what I was saying, those
[3:02:38] Speaker 7: words are available to me, I could have said that.
[3:02:41] Speaker 7: I'm asking you if you think that there's a type
[3:02:43] Speaker 7: of slavery that's.
[3:02:44] Speaker 3: Nice, that's nice. Slavery overarching is not really a safe
[3:02:54] Speaker 3: for instan great thing, but it happened historically for reasons.
[3:02:57] Speaker 1: It was a yes or no question. I don't know
[3:02:58] Speaker 1: why you couldn't say no hard.
[3:03:02] Speaker 3: Logical fallacy.
[3:03:03] Speaker 2: It is just that what's the fallacy? Aldo? What what's
[3:03:06] Speaker 2: the fallacy?
[3:03:07] Speaker 1: Bet money? Keith doesn't know any logical fallacies?
[3:03:11] Speaker 7: Is it a formal fallacy or an informal fallacy? Me
[3:03:13] Speaker 7: asking you a question?
[3:03:16] Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. The question you're asking.
[3:03:18] Speaker 7: Yeah, how is a question of fallacy? Which fallacy is it?
[3:03:23] Speaker 3: It's the yes or no question, yes or no fallacy?
[3:03:26] Speaker 7: Is that a formal fallacy or an informal fallacy.
[3:03:29] Speaker 1: I've literally never heard of the yes or no fallacy.
[3:03:32] Speaker 1: I think I think what you want falla. I think
[3:03:36] Speaker 1: what you wanted a false like, oh, you can't see
[3:03:38] Speaker 1: it because it's green. I think you want the false
[3:03:40] Speaker 1: dichotomy fallacy. But that's not what a false dichotomy means.
[3:03:44] Speaker 7: And and just so you know, and the reason it's
[3:03:45] Speaker 7: not is because the third law of logic is literally
[3:03:48] Speaker 7: that everything is either.
[3:03:49] Speaker 3: Yes or no.
[3:03:52] Speaker 2: So it can't be a fallacy.
[3:03:53] Speaker 3: It's a load question fallacy. What it's a loaded question?
[3:03:59] Speaker 3: The question is.
[3:04:02] Speaker 2: The question.
[3:04:02] Speaker 7: I'm gonna I'm gonna render the question again. You tell
[3:04:05] Speaker 7: me what assumption do I have in my question? Do
[3:04:08] Speaker 7: you think that there is a form of slavery that
[3:04:10] Speaker 7: is nice?
[3:04:12] Speaker 3: Yes?
[3:04:13] Speaker 2: Okay? Good.
[3:04:14] Speaker 7: See, so there's there was no fallacy in the question.
[3:04:17] Speaker 7: You were able to answer it. What form of slavery
[3:04:20] Speaker 7: is nice?
[3:04:22] Speaker 3: Romany's nine? Christ calls.
[3:04:27] Speaker 2: Christ finished the sentence. Christ calls Christ.
[3:04:33] Speaker 3: His friends, but we call him master. He is our
[3:04:35] Speaker 3: what our slave? Master?
[3:04:37] Speaker 1: Is that voluntary?
[3:04:42] Speaker 3: Is it voluntary?
[3:04:43] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[3:04:45] Speaker 3: Well, depending on what denomination do.
[3:04:47] Speaker 1: I volunteer to be Christ's slave?
[3:04:52] Speaker 3: It's either you're going to be a Christ's slave, or
[3:04:54] Speaker 3: you're gonna be Do.
[3:04:55] Speaker 1: I volunteer to be Christ's slave? Yes? Or no? I
[3:05:02] Speaker 1: would say, Or does He force you to be his slave?
[3:05:09] Speaker 2: Denominations don't help you here, by the way.
[3:05:11] Speaker 3: It does because you have some denominations who hold to
[3:05:14] Speaker 3: what that's what we call the five points of Calvinism.
[3:05:17] Speaker 1: We'll try this again. Does God force people to be
[3:05:20] Speaker 1: his slaves? Or do we choose to be his slaves?
[3:05:24] Speaker 3: It's free choice. You're going to have a slave.
[3:05:26] Speaker 1: Okay, there we go. So we're talking about different things.
[3:05:28] Speaker 1: We're talking about allowing another human being against their will.
[3:05:32] Speaker 7: And I would even say that it's not free choice.
[3:05:38] Speaker 3: You don't have an option.
[3:05:38] Speaker 1: No, Jeff, don't, don't start that conversation that we're never
[3:05:41] Speaker 1: going to finish. The first conversation he'll never get I'll
[3:05:46] Speaker 1: just grant it.
[3:05:46] Speaker 7: But look, in the same way that you say that
[3:05:49] Speaker 7: biblical slavery in Leviticus is not the same as as
[3:05:54] Speaker 7: chattle slavery in the Americas, I'm gonna say, whatever the
[3:05:57] Speaker 7: fuck slavery you were just talking about in Roman nine
[3:06:00] Speaker 7: doesn't even come close to the type of slavery that
[3:06:03] Speaker 7: is described in Leviticus.
[3:06:04] Speaker 2: So it's two different things.
[3:06:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, so let me let me ask one more question,
[3:06:07] Speaker 1: because we're past our time, we have to get to
[3:06:09] Speaker 1: the super chats. Let me ask one question in Keith,
[3:06:11] Speaker 1: what is what is the difference between the Bible's form
[3:06:15] Speaker 1: of slavery and the Americans going and purchasing slaves from
[3:06:21] Speaker 1: the nations and bringing them the back here. What's the difference?
[3:06:25] Speaker 3: Uh? One of the primary differences is, like say, friends,
[3:06:29] Speaker 3: you weren't allowed in the Bible's terms. You couldn't go
[3:06:33] Speaker 3: out and just take somebody.
[3:06:34] Speaker 1: That's wrong. Let me redo where it says you can
[3:06:36] Speaker 1: do that.
[3:06:38] Speaker 3: So are you sure?
[3:06:40] Speaker 1: Yeah? And first of all, I didn't say take, I
[3:06:42] Speaker 1: said purchase, So you've already tried to straw man what
[3:06:46] Speaker 1: I said. I didn't say anything about kidnapping. But the
[3:06:49] Speaker 1: Bible does allow for kidnapping. Numbers thirty one, Deuteronomy twenty
[3:06:53] Speaker 1: Deuteronomy twenty one.
[3:06:55] Speaker 3: So we're talking about so.
[3:06:57] Speaker 1: Try this again. What's the difference between the Americans going
[3:07:01] Speaker 1: on ships buying a bunch of slaves from Africa and
[3:07:05] Speaker 1: bringing them back here. What's the difference between that and
[3:07:07] Speaker 1: what was happening in the Bible.
[3:07:11] Speaker 3: The difference is those who actually did that were supposed
[3:07:15] Speaker 3: to be killed in the same French Okay.
[3:07:18] Speaker 1: Show me that in the Bible where it says going
[3:07:19] Speaker 1: and purchasing slaves, I mean they should be killed.
[3:07:22] Speaker 3: No, cannot finish.
[3:07:23] Speaker 1: You can finish, but you're gonna be wrong no matter
[3:07:25] Speaker 1: how many words it takes you to finish.
[3:07:28] Speaker 3: Okay, you're just interjecting. You know, but I'm saying, if
[3:07:30] Speaker 3: a man goes out and captures another man.
[3:07:33] Speaker 1: I didn't say capture, I said purchase.
[3:07:36] Speaker 3: Purchase, You're allowed to purchase the slaves around you.
[3:07:38] Speaker 1: I agree. Yeah, So what's the difference between purchasing African
[3:07:42] Speaker 1: slaves and purchasing foreign slaves in ancient issue? Or what's
[3:07:47] Speaker 1: the difference?
[3:07:49] Speaker 3: The difference is you can actually be set free.
[3:07:53] Speaker 1: Okay, show me where it says the foreign slaves can
[3:07:55] Speaker 1: be set.
[3:07:55] Speaker 3: Free if they became a Jew.
[3:07:58] Speaker 1: That's not in the book. You spent yesterday and today
[3:08:02] Speaker 1: trying to convince me of that. You haven't found a
[3:08:04] Speaker 1: single fucking verse that agrees with you, not even one.
[3:08:07] Speaker 3: So are only Israelites allowed to partake in the mill?
[3:08:13] Speaker 1: The partaking in food, partaking in the laws of the
[3:08:19] Speaker 1: land doesn't make you part of the people group. It
[3:08:24] Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you're now a Jew. It doesn't mean
[3:08:26] Speaker 1: that you're now free.
[3:08:28] Speaker 3: It does, it does not.
[3:08:32] Speaker 1: If you have to follow it. You don't get to
[3:08:35] Speaker 1: You have to. Keith, It's not fucking optional. If you
[3:08:38] Speaker 1: live in that land, you must follow the laws of
[3:08:42] Speaker 1: the land. There is one law for both the native
[3:08:45] Speaker 1: born Hebrew and the foreigners. You don't get to choose
[3:08:48] Speaker 1: to follow the law. You have to. So everybody living
[3:08:52] Speaker 1: in the land is following that law. That didn't make
[3:08:54] Speaker 1: all the foreigners Jews. Did the slaves partake in.
[3:09:02] Speaker 3: The meal?
[3:09:03] Speaker 1: Yes, because everybody did. The demand was for all of Israel,
[3:09:09] Speaker 1: all of them.
[3:09:10] Speaker 2: Quick question, Quick questions, the passover question.
[3:09:12] Speaker 3: You have to be circumcised in order to take partaking
[3:09:15] Speaker 3: the passover.
[3:09:16] Speaker 1: Everybody did because it was a sacred rite that made
[3:09:20] Speaker 1: you clean. According to the law of Moses, you cannot
[3:09:23] Speaker 1: partake in God's covenant meal or in God's celebratory meal
[3:09:29] Speaker 1: unless you were already abiding by the laws of cleanliness.
[3:09:34] Speaker 2: Keith, right, No, No, Keith, we're black people to go
[3:09:41] Speaker 2: to hahaha, we're black people forced to go to church
[3:09:47] Speaker 2: that when they were slaves.
[3:09:50] Speaker 3: Uh. That there has nothing to do with.
[3:09:52] Speaker 7: We're I'm just going to ask the question again. We're
[3:09:55] Speaker 7: black people as slaves forced to take part in Christianity?
[3:10:00] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[3:10:03] Speaker 7: Were there black people who came to the Americas and
[3:10:06] Speaker 7: purchased their family as slaves to freedom?
[3:10:11] Speaker 3: Yeah? And then there were black people who purchased slaves
[3:10:14] Speaker 3: to freedom. Yes. No, no, not to freedom to enslave them. Actually,
[3:10:17] Speaker 3: the first African American who actually fought for the rights
[3:10:20] Speaker 3: to own a slave for a lifetime was I believe
[3:10:22] Speaker 3: in the Virginias as an African American.
[3:10:25] Speaker 2: What was his name?
[3:10:26] Speaker 3: Uh, it's actually a whole documentary on this one moment.
[3:10:28] Speaker 3: Let me is it already? Give me time to just
[3:10:30] Speaker 3: look him up.
[3:10:33] Speaker 7: Sure, I see that the research on the white supremacist
[3:10:37] Speaker 7: sites is like buzzin'.
[3:10:53] Speaker 3: Wheah, k, there you go. William Ellison Junior, William Ellison Junior,
[3:11:08] Speaker 3: born alive, William Ellison.
[3:11:12] Speaker 7: The entire thing with William Ellison was about his estate
[3:11:16] Speaker 7: going to his children or his wife. No, it wasn't
[3:11:21] Speaker 7: okay then, what what was the court case that William
[3:11:24] Speaker 7: Ellison brought up to keep slaves for life?
[3:11:31] Speaker 3: For a moment, you gotta look pretty up now, mm hmmm.
[3:11:50] Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, yeah, OK.
[3:12:08] Speaker 3: I'm trying to find the case number, So.
[3:12:15] Speaker 2: Why is the case number?
[3:12:34] Speaker 1: The fun thing is we haven't even got to excess
[3:12:37] Speaker 1: twenty one yet, which is gonna nuke his position.
[3:12:48] Speaker 3: I'm not actually gonna get this. Is it all right?
[3:12:50] Speaker 1: If you can actually look it up and come back tomorrow.
[3:12:53] Speaker 1: We're gonna end on Exus twenty one because I got
[3:12:55] Speaker 1: only a couple of minutes left before I got to
[3:12:57] Speaker 1: get to superchest. Exus twenty one says exactly factly the
[3:13:00] Speaker 1: thing he doesn't want to say. When you buy a
[3:13:03] Speaker 1: male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but
[3:13:05] Speaker 1: in the seventh he shall go out a free person
[3:13:07] Speaker 1: without debt. So these are Hebrews. Keep in mind, if
[3:13:10] Speaker 1: he comes in single, he shall go out single. If
[3:13:12] Speaker 1: he comes and married, then his wife shall go out
[3:13:14] Speaker 1: with him. If his master gives him a wife and
[3:13:18] Speaker 1: she bears him sons or daughters, So these are children
[3:13:21] Speaker 1: now of the Hebrew man. The wife and her children
[3:13:25] Speaker 1: shall be her masters, and he shall go out alone.
[3:13:29] Speaker 1: So the male Hebrews get to go out alone. Even
[3:13:32] Speaker 1: if you give a wife to your male Hebrew temporary
[3:13:35] Speaker 1: servant or temporary slave, the wife and the children remain
[3:13:39] Speaker 1: permanent slaves of the owner even though they're Hebrew. So Keith,
[3:13:49] Speaker 1: you should consider the fact that these are bad talking points,
[3:13:53] Speaker 1: which is why you're literally the first person who's ever
[3:13:56] Speaker 1: even attempted this talking point. I've had this slave conversation
[3:14:00] Speaker 1: with hundreds of people before you, and you're the only
[3:14:03] Speaker 1: person ever that's ever attempted this bad talking point. And
[3:14:07] Speaker 1: the reason why is because even Christian apologists know that
[3:14:10] Speaker 1: this isn't a true talking point.
[3:14:14] Speaker 3: It's actually a true talking point I have. I have.
[3:14:19] Speaker 3: That's why I'm saying only people who were circumcised were
[3:14:22] Speaker 3: able to partake in the uh.
[3:14:25] Speaker 1: It didn't make them not slaves.
[3:14:27] Speaker 3: It did.
[3:14:28] Speaker 1: It didn't, because then there wouldn't be a single slave
[3:14:30] Speaker 1: among the Israelites, not a single one. It doesn't make
[3:14:33] Speaker 1: you not a slave.
[3:14:35] Speaker 3: It does not make it makes you treat it what.
[3:14:38] Speaker 1: It doesn't make you treat it anything. It makes you
[3:14:40] Speaker 1: a slave that's been circumcised and cleaned according.
[3:14:43] Speaker 2: To the law.
[3:14:43] Speaker 1: That's what it makes you.
[3:14:45] Speaker 3: It makes you a free man.
[3:14:46] Speaker 1: No, it fucking doesn't.
[3:14:49] Speaker 3: It doesn't.
[3:14:50] Speaker 1: No, it does not.
[3:14:52] Speaker 3: So what was the purpose? Why would you want to
[3:14:54] Speaker 3: be circumcising.
[3:14:55] Speaker 1: You had to. It wasn't your choice. You didn't get to.
[3:14:58] Speaker 1: You didn't choose to. You had to be circumcised. You
[3:15:02] Speaker 1: were a slave. You don't get a choice. You don't
[3:15:05] Speaker 1: get to choose.
[3:15:07] Speaker 2: So abraham slaves freed when they were circumcised, Yes or no?
[3:15:12] Speaker 3: The abraham slaves had a choice were they circumcised? They
[3:15:17] Speaker 3: were not all of them. I don't know. Show me that.
[3:15:22] Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't care about any of that. I just
[3:15:23] Speaker 7: want to know the ones that referencing is it says
[3:15:27] Speaker 7: if they choose not to be keith. I just want
[3:15:30] Speaker 7: to know the ones that were circumcised, where.
[3:15:32] Speaker 3: They freed if they wanted to leave.
[3:15:34] Speaker 1: Yeah, they could show me that verse in the Bible.
[3:15:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, let's let's look at that.
[3:15:40] Speaker 3: That's the option.
[3:15:41] Speaker 1: Could you walk away from the room, show.
[3:15:42] Speaker 2: Me that verse?
[3:15:43] Speaker 7: You know, you know, you know, the logic of that
[3:15:46] Speaker 7: means that after this law, that Abraham would have zero
[3:15:50] Speaker 7: slaves because the ones who were circumcised were freed and
[3:15:52] Speaker 7: the ones who were not were cut off. Means get
[3:15:55] Speaker 7: rid of them, so he wouldn't have any more slaves.
[3:16:00] Speaker 2: Or kicked out.
[3:16:02] Speaker 3: Because a slave depended on his master for survival. That's
[3:16:05] Speaker 3: why you have to understand slavery from a historical standpoint.
[3:16:07] Speaker 1: What that's crazy.
[3:16:09] Speaker 7: No, they did not hold on, hold on, hold on,
[3:16:12] Speaker 7: time out, time out, Keith. If they depended on their
[3:16:15] Speaker 7: master for survival, then why the fuck would they leave
[3:16:19] Speaker 7: in the year of Jubilee to their wherever.
[3:16:23] Speaker 3: Because they have something to go back home too, so
[3:16:25] Speaker 3: they don't depend on them if they want. Now, remind
[3:16:30] Speaker 3: you there's laws in there that says, oh I love
[3:16:32] Speaker 3: my master, I'm going to pierce my ears.
[3:16:34] Speaker 7: Why would you want to That's for Hebrews. I'm just
[3:16:36] Speaker 7: asking you. In the UK, you believe, believe hold on,
[3:16:39] Speaker 7: hold on. You said slaves, You said that slaves depended
[3:16:43] Speaker 7: on their master for survival. But you're also saying that
[3:16:46] Speaker 7: in the year of Jubilee, they had they were they
[3:16:48] Speaker 7: were free. They got to leave if they wanted to,
[3:16:51] Speaker 7: if they want. It doesn't say that, it does.
[3:16:55] Speaker 1: It doesn't. We've been by Keith, stop talking to stop.
[3:16:59] Speaker 1: We talked for like two hours yesterday or the day before,
[3:17:02] Speaker 1: and we've talked for another like forty five minutes today
[3:17:05] Speaker 1: and you have not provided a single fucking reference that
[3:17:10] Speaker 1: says if you circumcise your slave, then they get to
[3:17:13] Speaker 1: go free, not a single one. It contradicts what God
[3:17:16] Speaker 1: actually says. God says that if you give a male
[3:17:20] Speaker 1: Hebrew slave a wife, the wife and the children become
[3:17:24] Speaker 1: permanent property of the master, not the slave. They don't
[3:17:26] Speaker 1: get to go free. Says the same thing in verse
[3:17:29] Speaker 1: seven of the same chapter, when a man sells his
[3:17:31] Speaker 1: daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as
[3:17:34] Speaker 1: the male slaves do. So she's a permanent slave. Slaves
[3:17:37] Speaker 1: that are born in the household, those are household slaves forever.
[3:17:42] Speaker 1: Those are not temporary workers. Whether you're Hebrew or not,
[3:17:46] Speaker 1: You're Keith, You're not good at this. You're just not.
[3:17:50] Speaker 1: And I've got to end the conversation because because now,
[3:17:55] Speaker 1: because now it's time to read super chats, and the
[3:17:56] Speaker 1: conversations already long in the teeth. Keith, I want you
[3:17:59] Speaker 1: to come back tomorrow. I want you to come back tomorrow.
[3:18:02] Speaker 1: I'll be live for quite a while. You can bring
[3:18:05] Speaker 1: the same bad talking points. Just know that if you
[3:18:08] Speaker 1: come back being more dishonest saying the Bible says things
[3:18:11] Speaker 1: that it doesn't, I'm going to publicly embarrass you and
[3:18:14] Speaker 1: I'm going to make fun of you to your face.
[3:18:16] Speaker 1: And then I'll probably find out who your family is
[3:18:18] Speaker 1: eventually and show them this video so that you can
[3:18:20] Speaker 1: embarrass your entire family as well.
[3:18:23] Speaker 3: So oh oh, please do I encourage you?
[3:18:26] Speaker 1: Okay, so, Keith, have a good day and try again later,
[3:18:31] Speaker 1: but come back with better talking points. I've never seen
[3:18:36] Speaker 1: someone quite so dishonest. That's crazy. All right, let's read
[3:18:40] Speaker 1: some super chets friends. Shit, I know I've got a
[3:18:42] Speaker 1: bunch of them. I apologize, but the way the conversations
[3:18:45] Speaker 1: were going today, it wasn't really couldn't really do them.
[3:18:50] Speaker 1: In between, conn says a good day, mister Justin, huge,
[3:18:54] Speaker 1: just fucking huge grace again. Okay, all right, this is
[3:18:58] Speaker 1: what we're doing now, this is what we're doing. All right,
[3:19:00] Speaker 1: Huge grace to you, Kyle, Love you, buddy. Luke with
[3:19:05] Speaker 1: a name I might not pronounce correctly, Poplowski, thank you
[3:19:08] Speaker 1: for the nine to nine supertest, says Justin. I've been
[3:19:11] Speaker 1: worried you might be getting burnout on some of these callers,
[3:19:13] Speaker 1: but seeing you be so patient with your Jim friend
[3:19:16] Speaker 1: yesterday was reassuring, heartwarming and kind. All the best. Well,
[3:19:19] Speaker 1: I appreciate that, Luke. Luke. You know I've said before
[3:19:22] Speaker 1: that if people come in here and they've got a
[3:19:25] Speaker 1: good attitude, and they're being a polite and they're not
[3:19:27] Speaker 1: gaslighting and lying to me. I'm more than happy to
[3:19:30] Speaker 1: treat them nicely. I'm out here to pound everybody. Guys
[3:19:35] Speaker 1: like Keith though, lying gas lighters. Yeah, I'll just pound
[3:19:38] Speaker 1: them into the ground. William says, do you think a
[3:19:41] Speaker 1: lot of things about Jesus were taken from other religions?
[3:19:44] Speaker 1: I've never heard you use this in a debate, so, William,
[3:19:46] Speaker 1: that's because I don't think it was that much of
[3:19:49] Speaker 1: a taking. I think it was more like syncretism, where
[3:19:54] Speaker 1: there's a quite often unintentional overlap in the religions. Like
[3:20:00] Speaker 1: when the Jews came into contact with the Greeks, they
[3:20:03] Speaker 1: adopted some of the Greek points of view that already
[3:20:06] Speaker 1: seemed to align or could coexist within fact, the already
[3:20:11] Speaker 1: held beliefs of the Jews, and so they're like slowly
[3:20:15] Speaker 1: evolving viewpoints. The teachings of Jesus, most of them come
[3:20:22] Speaker 1: from the apocalyptic literature, and the apocalyptic literature did combine
[3:20:27] Speaker 1: a little bit of Greek ideas, and certainly being a
[3:20:30] Speaker 1: son of God like a demi God, was a bit
[3:20:33] Speaker 1: of a Greek idea, but I don't think it's useful
[3:20:36] Speaker 1: to point that out, and I don't even think it's
[3:20:38] Speaker 1: compelling evidence, and I don't even think it's something you
[3:20:41] Speaker 1: can prove. All as you can say is like, isn't
[3:20:43] Speaker 1: it weird that Jesus is a demi god like these
[3:20:45] Speaker 1: other Greek ideas or these other Greek entities. But like
[3:20:50] Speaker 1: when I do the debates, I typically stick the points
[3:20:52] Speaker 1: that are provable and clear. I don't try it. I
[3:20:55] Speaker 1: don't touch on points that are like, well, if you look,
[3:20:58] Speaker 1: if you squint just right, you can see the connection.
[3:21:01] Speaker 1: Those aren't really arguing. Those aren't like points worth arguing
[3:21:04] Speaker 1: because you can always be talking to someone who doesn't
[3:21:07] Speaker 1: squint the way you squint. Maddie think you for the
[3:21:09] Speaker 1: supertest says, Oh, it's about to get crazy when this
[3:21:12] Speaker 1: notification goes off. I grabbed the popcorn you heard all
[3:21:15] Speaker 1: the way from Brooklyn. Well shit, big w over to Brooklyn.
[3:21:18] Speaker 1: Thank you for watching. I appreciate that. And yeah, if
[3:21:21] Speaker 1: you want to be notified every time I go live,
[3:21:22] Speaker 1: ring the bell on the channel Friends, that way you
[3:21:25] Speaker 1: won't actually miss anything. And Jimmy Peterson says, do West
[3:21:29] Speaker 1: huff see facts as tests from the Lord. Actually, I
[3:21:35] Speaker 1: think that is the case. He's not good with facts.
[3:21:38] Speaker 1: He lost me when he couldn't pronounce biblia hibraicastu gardensia,
[3:21:42] Speaker 1: which is the standard form of the Critical Edition of
[3:21:46] Speaker 1: the Old Testament. The fact that he is getting a
[3:21:49] Speaker 1: PhD and didn't know how to say the name of
[3:21:52] Speaker 1: that book properly makes me have huge reservations for his credibility. Marcus,
[3:21:58] Speaker 1: thank you for the supertest says, If it's so random,
[3:22:00] Speaker 1: why is it so consistently hard to understand what? Yeah,
[3:22:05] Speaker 1: the first caller was an interesting one talking about the
[3:22:09] Speaker 1: randomness of the universe or the so called order, But like,
[3:22:15] Speaker 1: if the universe is random, we would expect that it's
[3:22:17] Speaker 1: a little bit difficult rather than organized, which would be
[3:22:20] Speaker 1: more easily to understand. Lyrica says, is it possible primordial
[3:22:26] Speaker 1: chaos is an explanation for evolution? Maybe? Like so, the
[3:22:31] Speaker 1: Bible does kind of point a little bit to the
[3:22:33] Speaker 1: primordial chaos, similar with the Babylonian and the Acadian literature,
[3:22:37] Speaker 1: suggesting that the gods didn't create something brand new necessarily,
[3:22:41] Speaker 1: although the creation of the heaven and Earth by Tiamat
[3:22:44] Speaker 1: is one of those things, but there are still primordial waters.
[3:22:48] Speaker 1: That idea shows up in the Bible in Genesis a
[3:22:50] Speaker 1: little bit, but I don't think it has anything to
[3:22:52] Speaker 1: do with evolution if you ask me, because then you
[3:22:55] Speaker 1: would just say, well, I have a view of God
[3:22:57] Speaker 1: where the universe is eternal. But now we've got this
[3:23:00] Speaker 1: weird god that's also eternal, who didn't create everything. He
[3:23:03] Speaker 1: just kind of came over to Earth at one point
[3:23:06] Speaker 1: and formed earth. It doesn't actually explain everything else. It's
[3:23:10] Speaker 1: also I don't know if it really explains like the
[3:23:13] Speaker 1: problem of evil either.
[3:23:14] Speaker 4: You know.
[3:23:15] Speaker 1: Dread the Red thank you for the ten hour Superchet says, Hey,
[3:23:18] Speaker 1: justin when are you getting some Dougs Pretzels factory swag?
[3:23:23] Speaker 3: We do?
[3:23:23] Speaker 1: That would be good to do Doug's Pretzel factory shit.
[3:23:26] Speaker 1: I got to write that in my notes one second.
[3:23:32] Speaker 1: I really do need to write down these ideas and
[3:23:36] Speaker 1: make them come into the world. We love the product.
[3:23:40] Speaker 1: Now it's time to spread the word. Hey, I appreciate
[3:23:43] Speaker 1: that I'm spreading the word as much as I can. Dread,
[3:23:45] Speaker 1: thank you for supporting and also thank you Keith. Different Keith,
[3:23:49] Speaker 1: this is a more rational Keith. Thank you so so much,
[3:23:52] Speaker 1: Keith for the fifty hours super chat. That's huge, friend Is.
[3:23:55] Speaker 1: I think one of the things that creeped me out
[3:23:57] Speaker 1: the most when I was a Christian was when pastors
[3:24:00] Speaker 1: used to say that Jesus is the bridegroom coming for
[3:24:02] Speaker 1: his bride. What a gross, creepy analogy. Doug has never
[3:24:05] Speaker 1: asked me to be a bride, praised Doug, and he won't. Yeah,
[3:24:11] Speaker 1: the idea that we are the bride of Christ is
[3:24:13] Speaker 1: a It's a really creepy, weird thing to think about.
[3:24:19] Speaker 1: You can say like, well, it's an analogy, it's not literal,
[3:24:22] Speaker 1: but even as an analogy, it's silly. It doesn't make
[3:24:24] Speaker 1: sense when you look at all the way the analogies
[3:24:28] Speaker 1: could play out. It doesn't make sense that we would
[3:24:31] Speaker 1: consummate with Christ. A Marcus says, I absolutely love when
[3:24:34] Speaker 1: these callers jump on and imply that there's biblical interpretation
[3:24:38] Speaker 1: that Justin isn't aware of. Buddy, he has a degree
[3:24:40] Speaker 1: in this, and two of them actually, yeah, it's wild
[3:24:44] Speaker 1: to me that they'll get on and they'll be like, well,
[3:24:45] Speaker 1: you just don't understand, you haven't read it, or you
[3:24:48] Speaker 1: don't know the context. Oh yeah, yeah, I'm sure that's
[3:24:51] Speaker 1: the case. Tell me more about it, I says, you
[3:24:54] Speaker 1: have to understand the context justin I'm sorry, I forgot.
[3:24:58] Speaker 1: When I was in school getting my diplomas, I forgot
[3:25:01] Speaker 1: to actually read the book. It just never occurred to me.
[3:25:03] Speaker 1: I should read the entire Bible. Punctuated equilibrium good to
[3:25:07] Speaker 1: see you again, it says super chat from yesterday response
[3:25:11] Speaker 1: to Philippians to him starts in verse six. If Jesus
[3:25:15] Speaker 1: was in appearance of humans, he was not human, so
[3:25:19] Speaker 1: can't have two natures?
[3:25:21] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[3:25:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, And what also says that he took on the
[3:25:24] Speaker 1: human form and experience being a human just like we do,
[3:25:28] Speaker 1: which means he was a human, not god like at
[3:25:31] Speaker 1: some point to make the trinity work, and you know this, punctuated,
[3:25:36] Speaker 1: you have to go to some sort of modalism bullshit
[3:25:39] Speaker 1: and say that God came to earth changed his form
[3:25:42] Speaker 1: in nature to be like that of the man. You
[3:25:45] Speaker 1: can't say that Jesus was one hundred percent God and
[3:25:47] Speaker 1: one hundred percent man because he just got a problem.
[3:25:49] Speaker 1: And doctor Pizza says, the true mark of a moron
[3:25:51] Speaker 1: is when they say exactly after they've been demonstrated to
[3:25:54] Speaker 1: be wrong. Hail Nero praised Doug absolutely hail Nero six
[3:25:58] Speaker 1: one six and six six big w friend, and Herbie says,
[3:26:04] Speaker 1: if I've understood this right, it seems to be the
[3:26:07] Speaker 1: case that a lot of your callers seem to think
[3:26:08] Speaker 1: words don't mean words. Strange, Herb, You are right and
[3:26:13] Speaker 1: you did understand that right. Nine out of ten callers.
[3:26:16] Speaker 1: Their defense mechanism is words don't mean words and context.
[3:26:20] Speaker 1: I don't know what the context is, but I know
[3:26:22] Speaker 1: you're missing it.
[3:26:23] Speaker 3: David.
[3:26:23] Speaker 1: Good to see you again today. David says, golf lesson today.
[3:26:27] Speaker 1: Have to watch later. Twenty seven years with bad swing,
[3:26:30] Speaker 1: prayed for God to fix it, no luck, then three
[3:26:32] Speaker 1: years to change. Taken three years to change. Well, listen, David,
[3:26:36] Speaker 1: I haven't goffed in a while, but I used to
[3:26:37] Speaker 1: goff And here's what I can tell you about golf swing.
[3:26:40] Speaker 1: Just relax and have fun. You'll swing much better if
[3:26:43] Speaker 1: you're just having a good time. The minute you take
[3:26:45] Speaker 1: it too serious and you're like, I need to drive
[3:26:47] Speaker 1: the ball three hundred yards and birdy every hole, it
[3:26:50] Speaker 1: is going to fuck you up. It's gonna get in
[3:26:52] Speaker 1: your head. Just go out there and have a good time.
[3:26:53] Speaker 1: You'll be all right.
[3:26:53] Speaker 3: David.
[3:26:55] Speaker 2: Also look at the ball and not at the flag.
[3:26:57] Speaker 3: That's right.
[3:26:59] Speaker 1: Never take your eye off the ball even when you're
[3:27:01] Speaker 1: done with your swing. Like when I swing, my goal
[3:27:04] Speaker 1: is that even after I'm done with my swing, I
[3:27:06] Speaker 1: want to be looking at that ball now. Obviously, if
[3:27:08] Speaker 1: you do a full swing, it'll eventually bring you out.
[3:27:11] Speaker 1: But that's the swing thought. My swing thought is never
[3:27:15] Speaker 1: take your eye off the ball, even after you hit it.
[3:27:17] Speaker 1: If you can do that, you'll be in good territory.
[3:27:21] Speaker 1: But listen, golf's hard. I had a friend who was
[3:27:23] Speaker 1: a golf in circture once. He says, there are at
[3:27:25] Speaker 1: minimum seven things that you have to do right in
[3:27:28] Speaker 1: your golf swing. Any one of them will fuck your
[3:27:30] Speaker 1: shot up if you do them wrong. So it's it's
[3:27:34] Speaker 1: a sport. They say football is a game of inches,
[3:27:36] Speaker 1: Golf is a game of millimeters. Donus, my friend, thank
[3:27:39] Speaker 1: you for the three hundred Argentinian dollars. Big w over
[3:27:42] Speaker 1: in Argentine says, glad I can join the lives more often.
[3:27:46] Speaker 1: Doug compels me to support the channel Happy Cooking. Well,
[3:27:49] Speaker 1: Doug would do such a thing. What the rock of
[3:27:51] Speaker 1: ages supporting his own ministry here. I really appreciate that. Sons,
[3:27:55] Speaker 1: thank you for being so supportive of the channel. And
[3:27:58] Speaker 1: praise Doug the rock the firm Foundation Spider is sixty six.
[3:28:02] Speaker 1: Thank you for the six sixty six, he says, Reverend
[3:28:05] Speaker 1: Herman Nudig. I love that plan words every time, Reverend
[3:28:10] Speaker 1: Herberan Nudick here. I once was flaccid, but now I
[3:28:13] Speaker 1: am rock hard. Praise Doug because you've got the Herman
[3:28:16] Speaker 1: Nudick now see, I'm with you.
[3:28:18] Speaker 2: That was good.
[3:28:19] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Dan, thank you so much for the fight.
[3:28:22] Speaker 1: Our superten says I can't understand what is happening in
[3:28:24] Speaker 1: the conversation about the topics, so I'll just whine about
[3:28:27] Speaker 1: people watching instead. Arnov. Yeah, that's the craziest thing with Arnov.
[3:28:32] Speaker 1: He could he could not focus. He came in with
[3:28:35] Speaker 1: a good disposition at least, but boyd was he like
[3:28:38] Speaker 1: he knew he was getting cooked and he knew that
[3:28:41] Speaker 1: the chat knew that he was getting cooked. And you know,
[3:28:44] Speaker 1: Godwin says, Abby, how Abby ware? Abby? When Abby?
[3:28:48] Speaker 3: What?
[3:28:49] Speaker 1: Abby?
[3:28:49] Speaker 9: Who?
[3:28:51] Speaker 1: I said? That's a good joke. I haven't heard that
[3:28:52] Speaker 1: in a while, Godwin, But Abby, who is uh? He's
[3:28:57] Speaker 1: one member of the Old Testament that doesn't get enough credit.
[3:29:00] Speaker 1: He was in there. He was solidly in there. Alex says,
[3:29:04] Speaker 1: thanks well, thank you, Alex, I appreciate you supporting Adam Brown,
[3:29:07] Speaker 1: my friend. Welcome in. Great to see you. Thank you
[3:29:10] Speaker 1: for the superchest says Cadiman's calls. What's next, Audio Adrenaline.
[3:29:13] Speaker 1: I love me some Audio Adrenaline, Please tell me. One
[3:29:16] Speaker 1: of the members of Audio Adrenaline Deconstructed says, what flashback?
[3:29:21] Speaker 1: What a flashback? Also, when you're a Christian. When you
[3:29:24] Speaker 1: were a Christian, who was your favorite authors and or speakers?
[3:29:27] Speaker 1: Good question? It ditch shift from time to time. Let
[3:29:36] Speaker 1: me think on that. I don't know if I had
[3:29:39] Speaker 1: any favorite speakers. I didn't really listen to a whole
[3:29:41] Speaker 1: lot of speakers. I did have some favorite authors. The
[3:29:48] Speaker 1: thing that I read the most as a Christian, that
[3:29:50] Speaker 1: I really enjoyed wasn't really a scholarly work. It was
[3:29:55] Speaker 1: a devotional by Oswald Chambers. It was my utmost for
[3:29:59] Speaker 1: his highest I really enjoyed that particular, that particular devotional.
[3:30:06] Speaker 1: I really like Oswald Chambers. I think he was really sincere,
[3:30:12] Speaker 1: and I think the devotional reflects how sincere he was.
[3:30:15] Speaker 1: But when it comes to scholarly literature, when I was
[3:30:18] Speaker 1: a Christian, I loved all the same people that I
[3:30:21] Speaker 1: love now. I loved reading about the Old Testament from
[3:30:24] Speaker 1: guys like Hartley and Baker and a Hugene Carpenter, and
[3:30:31] Speaker 1: certainly you know you don't want to forget like Jacob
[3:30:34] Speaker 1: Milgram or Klaus Westerman. I mean, there's so many great
[3:30:39] Speaker 1: Old Testament scholars that it would be hard to name
[3:30:42] Speaker 1: all of them. Peter says Justin's origin story. Wanted to
[3:30:46] Speaker 1: give free biblical educational material, ended up arguing with people
[3:30:49] Speaker 1: who hate learning. Read read read friends. Actually, Peter, that's
[3:30:53] Speaker 1: pretty pretty damn accurate. That's pretty damn accurate. I came
[3:30:56] Speaker 1: online thinking I was gonna have educational, meaningful conversations with
[3:30:59] Speaker 1: people who are thinking about deconstructing or in fact deconstructing,
[3:31:03] Speaker 1: And what I discovered was that nobody, like Christians, don't
[3:31:07] Speaker 1: want to do that. They just want to argue and fight.
[3:31:08] Speaker 1: So now that's all we do, and that's fine. I
[3:31:10] Speaker 1: can handle it. Beard to hear, Dick says, I love
[3:31:13] Speaker 1: this cooking show.
[3:31:14] Speaker 7: I was going to say, that's a hell that I share.
[3:31:17] Speaker 2: I know it isn't it crazyment Like.
[3:31:20] Speaker 7: I swear, I thought, hey, smart people to talk with
[3:31:24] Speaker 7: nah dog other plans for me?
[3:31:27] Speaker 1: That's exactly Yeah, it's hard. It caught me off guard. Actually,
[3:31:32] Speaker 1: thank you for coming here, Beard, It is great to
[3:31:34] Speaker 1: hear from your friend. Thank you for supporting too, and
[3:31:36] Speaker 1: Dennis Lee's thank you for the nine ninety nine supertest.
[3:31:39] Speaker 1: Justin if some Christians are convincing auditory hallucinations, sorry, if
[3:31:45] Speaker 1: some Christians are a convincing auditory halluciation from murder, something's
[3:31:51] Speaker 1: wrong in this sentence. If some Christians are a convincing
[3:31:54] Speaker 1: auditory hallucination for murder and the universe is deterministic, have
[3:31:58] Speaker 1: you considered how your baby pace example might shape future tragedy. Well,
[3:32:04] Speaker 1: I don't know if the sentence was structured properly, but
[3:32:06] Speaker 1: I think what you're asking is, if everything in the
[3:32:10] Speaker 1: universe is determined, and I'm giving baby paste analogies, is
[3:32:13] Speaker 1: it possible that somebody will eventually be making baby paste?
[3:32:19] Speaker 1: That might be what you're asking. I think that might
[3:32:22] Speaker 1: be the case if everything is determined, because somebody eventually
[3:32:26] Speaker 1: will look back on this live as from historian standpoint
[3:32:29] Speaker 1: and be like, huh, Doug's real Doug talks a lot
[3:32:33] Speaker 1: about baby paste. Maybe we need to make baby paste.
[3:32:35] Speaker 1: You never know. It could happen, but it wouldn't be
[3:32:38] Speaker 1: my fault. It would be determined. I don't have to
[3:32:40] Speaker 1: worry about that. Angry and Malachite Infant says. By the
[3:32:42] Speaker 1: end of yesterday's Live, when guests brought up Isaiah twenty three,
[3:32:45] Speaker 1: I could tell you we're tired. That's good, that is good.
[3:32:51] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Yeah, it was Ezekiel twenty eight though
[3:32:58] Speaker 1: not Isaiah twenty three, but I'll forgive you. It was
[3:33:01] Speaker 1: a great joke. Angry and malache Infinite, I love your jokes.
[3:33:04] Speaker 1: Thank you for being here, and thank you for a
[3:33:05] Speaker 1: supporting friend. And Doro says, a few bucks to help
[3:33:08] Speaker 1: stoke the fires of the pretzel factory. Got my mustard
[3:33:11] Speaker 1: and beer cheese ready to go? Hell yeah, mustard and
[3:33:13] Speaker 1: beer cheese is the way to go, especially if you're
[3:33:15] Speaker 1: doing some pretzels. Dip that in the What you need
[3:33:19] Speaker 1: is a stout, a cheddar cheese stout soup to dip
[3:33:23] Speaker 1: the pretzel. And that's really good. Alex, thank you for
[3:33:26] Speaker 1: the supertest, says, What you have to understand is they
[3:33:31] Speaker 1: all say it. It's an invitation to stop thinking. It
[3:33:35] Speaker 1: worked on them, so they think it'll work on anyone. Alex. Actually,
[3:33:38] Speaker 1: it's such a good point. The reason why apologists bring
[3:33:41] Speaker 1: up these talking points is because it worked on them,
[3:33:44] Speaker 1: and they think it worked on me. It worked on
[3:33:47] Speaker 1: my feeble brain, so it must work on others. But
[3:33:50] Speaker 1: they're in the wrong place if they want feeble brains.
[3:33:52] Speaker 1: We're not. Elle Travioso, thank you for the supertest, says
[3:33:56] Speaker 1: when I hear see justin let me explain the Bible
[3:34:00] Speaker 1: to you, I'm like, oh, my Doug, time to hit
[3:34:02] Speaker 1: pause and get the weenie that Marshamallow is ready. That's
[3:34:06] Speaker 1: my favorite thing. I love it when people come up
[3:34:08] Speaker 1: here and they're like, I need to teach justin the
[3:34:10] Speaker 1: Bible because it only goes one way. It never goes
[3:34:13] Speaker 1: a second way. Daniel says, uh, you can tell Jesus
[3:34:18] Speaker 1: he ain't going nowhere near my heart. I don't want
[3:34:21] Speaker 1: him anywhere near my heart, being that he advocated for
[3:34:24] Speaker 1: executing children in Mark chapter seven. Nah Say Brash says,
[3:34:29] Speaker 1: just in time for some Christian peace and love. We
[3:34:32] Speaker 1: actually some of the conversations are pretty peaceful today. I
[3:34:34] Speaker 1: don't think we got it in any like annoying yelling matches.
[3:34:38] Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, I mean they're gonna happen soon.
[3:34:40] Speaker 1: Crucifix me says in Poland. It's a miracle. God saved
[3:34:43] Speaker 1: a painting in I will not be able to pronounce
[3:34:46] Speaker 1: that chest Outkawa during World War two when six million
[3:34:51] Speaker 1: Jews died nearby. But hey, uh it's his mistress and
[3:34:56] Speaker 1: love child, right, Yeah, that's the craziest thing. Well, they're
[3:35:00] Speaker 1: like people were like, well, yeah, there's like these huge
[3:35:04] Speaker 1: wildfires and a bunch of people died and it was horrific,
[3:35:06] Speaker 1: but this Bible was preserved. This is basically what's happening here.
[3:35:09] Speaker 1: There's a miracle. There was a painting that was preserved
[3:35:13] Speaker 1: during World War two by miraculous means. But God was
[3:35:16] Speaker 1: more concerned with that fucking painting than he was with
[3:35:18] Speaker 1: the six million Jews that got gassed. It's crazy to
[3:35:21] Speaker 1: think about. Katie Dotson, thank you for the supertest, says
[3:35:24] Speaker 1: doctor Justin Sledge Esoterica channel. I love his channel just
[3:35:28] Speaker 1: announced that he was fired from academia for Fox's sake,
[3:35:31] Speaker 1: for why his class has been canceled. Huh, any that
[3:35:36] Speaker 1: can post support them, please do. Yeah, I agree, Justin
[3:35:38] Speaker 1: Sledge is amazing. His channel is big enough now that
[3:35:41] Speaker 1: he can probably support himself without academia. But that's some
[3:35:45] Speaker 1: great a bullshit right there. But I do believe Esoterica
[3:35:49] Speaker 1: is a treasor amazing channel. I highly recommend bean Dogs.
[3:35:54] Speaker 1: Thank you for the supertest, says traveling to Incarceration Festival
[3:36:00] Speaker 1: in Mansfield, oh I say it heard. I think this
[3:36:02] Speaker 1: might be a joke. Traveling to Ink Incarceration Festival in Mansfield, Ohio.
[3:36:07] Speaker 1: I know exactly where you're talking about. Wife and I
[3:36:10] Speaker 1: are listening to you cook and having some good last cheers. Well,
[3:36:13] Speaker 1: bean Dogs, thank you so much for letting me know.
[3:36:16] Speaker 1: And next time you go to the Mansfield Reformatory, take
[3:36:20] Speaker 1: some pictures. I want to go to the ghost tours.
[3:36:23] Speaker 1: Tell me what you think about the ghost tours, Saint
[3:36:25] Speaker 1: Brush says. I love starting with conclusions first, isn't it
[3:36:28] Speaker 1: the best thing? We all know what I believe and
[3:36:31] Speaker 1: can never be wrong, so we can start from there. Well,
[3:36:34] Speaker 1: thank you Saint Brush for the six sixty six. And
[3:36:36] Speaker 1: you know the crazy thing is that theis will get
[3:36:39] Speaker 1: on here and they won't just tell you what they're
[3:36:41] Speaker 1: going on about. They just want you to let them
[3:36:44] Speaker 1: go on forever and then eventually, maybe, if you're lucky,
[3:36:48] Speaker 1: get to a point. They never do. That's why when
[3:36:50] Speaker 1: I get annoying people up here that won't tell me
[3:36:52] Speaker 1: what they're talking about, I just say, all right, give
[3:36:54] Speaker 1: me your conclusion, then you can support your conclusion. That
[3:36:57] Speaker 1: works out a lot better for some people. Johannah, my friend,
[3:37:00] Speaker 1: great to see you. Thank you so much for the supertest,
[3:37:02] Speaker 1: says Jesus says. This Jesus say is that I wasn't
[3:37:04] Speaker 1: aware Jesus wrote a book. Johannah, You're right. He didn't
[3:37:07] Speaker 1: write shit, which is crazy. He's the Messiah, right, He's God,
[3:37:11] Speaker 1: God incarnate, couldn't write it as a book. Aar, my friend,
[3:37:15] Speaker 1: thank you for the supertest, says big question. Does Orthodox
[3:37:18] Speaker 1: Christianity produce philbros? Are a philbros just drawn to Orthodox Christianity?
[3:37:23] Speaker 1: I think a mixture of both. It's like a feedback cycle.
[3:37:27] Speaker 1: But here's my thought. The reason why you see so
[3:37:33] Speaker 1: many Catholic and Orthodox philbros is most of them don't
[3:37:38] Speaker 1: firmly believe in like Sola scriptura and in errancy like
[3:37:45] Speaker 1: they believe in the tradition of the Church and the
[3:37:47] Speaker 1: teachings of the apostles and the you know, the econmenical
[3:37:52] Speaker 1: councils and different things like that. Right, So, because they
[3:37:56] Speaker 1: know that they can't turn to the Bible and defend
[3:37:59] Speaker 1: the Bible as like this sacred text because it's full
[3:38:01] Speaker 1: of problems, they're like, well, what's the next Bex's thing? Well,
[3:38:04] Speaker 1: if I can't prove Christianity by using Christianity, I have
[3:38:07] Speaker 1: to use something outside of Christianity that ends up being philosophy.
[3:38:11] Speaker 1: So they're at least starting ahead of the Protestants by
[3:38:15] Speaker 1: saying listen, I can't defend this bullshit. I gotta try
[3:38:17] Speaker 1: something else. That's what's happening, Rainbow Woof says. They will
[3:38:21] Speaker 1: call I'm sorry. They will call us gays depraved and
[3:38:23] Speaker 1: ask how can atheists be moral while making excuses for
[3:38:27] Speaker 1: numbers thirty one in other grapes? Rainbow, that's the problem, right,
[3:38:30] Speaker 1: They'll say that we are immoral because we think gay
[3:38:33] Speaker 1: people should have equal rights. But also it was morally
[3:38:37] Speaker 1: perfect for God to have a bunch of little virgin
[3:38:39] Speaker 1: girls graped by the Hebrew of warriors. Man good idea,
[3:38:45] Speaker 1: Johanna says, hearsay does not stand up in the court
[3:38:48] Speaker 1: of law. Actually it doesn't.
[3:38:50] Speaker 2: Good.
[3:38:51] Speaker 1: It's not a good thing to do. And Rainbow come
[3:38:53] Speaker 1: in and again says, who are you to question God?
[3:38:54] Speaker 1: And God is beyond your understanding our gas lighting attempts.
[3:38:57] Speaker 1: I agree right the minute somebody's says you can't question God,
[3:39:03] Speaker 1: I would say, you can't question me as long as
[3:39:05] Speaker 1: we're here saying things that are stupid. Stephen says, faith unfaithful. Wait,
[3:39:12] Speaker 1: faith unfaithful left me falsely true. Holy shit, that's a
[3:39:15] Speaker 1: mind fuck. Faith unfaithful left me falsely true. I don't
[3:39:20] Speaker 1: know what that means, Stephen, but thank you for the
[3:39:22] Speaker 1: super chat and huge grace coming in to terrorize me.
[3:39:27] Speaker 1: I appreciate the super chat, though, says I haven't caught
[3:39:29] Speaker 1: a stream in about a week. Did I miss anything? No,
[3:39:32] Speaker 1: but I assume that you'll take it with huge grace.
[3:39:35] Speaker 3: See what did there?
[3:39:36] Speaker 1: I joined in on the thing, Necro, my friend. Great
[3:39:39] Speaker 1: to see you. Thank you for the ten hour Superchest
[3:39:41] Speaker 1: says the arrogant ignorance of Christians is astounding. They pretend
[3:39:45] Speaker 1: to know the Bible, then they pivot and obvious gate
[3:39:48] Speaker 1: when you check them. Cope is their true religion. Actually
[3:39:51] Speaker 1: that is the case. They're sacrificing the blood of bulls
[3:39:55] Speaker 1: and rams at the alter of cope, not at the
[3:39:57] Speaker 1: altar of truth. Jim and Jay says Amov, I think
[3:40:02] Speaker 1: that was Arnov convinced me not to get saved. Way
[3:40:06] Speaker 1: to go, Hero. Yeah, Arnav did not. He did not
[3:40:09] Speaker 1: do a good job in inventing his faith. Sir games
[3:40:12] Speaker 1: A Lot says. This guest accuses the Chat of not
[3:40:14] Speaker 1: understanding the Bible, but gives his opinion for thirty minutes
[3:40:17] Speaker 1: without quoting one scripture. Third, you nailed it right. What
[3:40:21] Speaker 1: they what they'll say, is anything but what the Bible says.
[3:40:25] Speaker 1: You don't understand it. You have to take the context.
[3:40:28] Speaker 1: You need to know the history that's not in the
[3:40:30] Speaker 1: original languages. But what they won't do is go to
[3:40:33] Speaker 1: the Bible and tell you exactly what the words mean
[3:40:36] Speaker 1: in the context and in the language. Phil fun great
[3:40:39] Speaker 1: to see you today. Thank you for the ten that
[3:40:41] Speaker 1: I was super Chat. He says, my five year old
[3:40:42] Speaker 1: son has been chewing on extension cords. Oof, that can't
[3:40:46] Speaker 1: be good. I I might to ground him. I think
[3:40:52] Speaker 1: you mean I might. I might ground him until he
[3:40:54] Speaker 1: conducts himself properly. Hopefully it's just a phase. He won't
[3:40:59] Speaker 1: resist me. Holy fuck, there's so many good jokes in
[3:41:02] Speaker 1: here for anyone who knows electricity. Feel fun.
[3:41:05] Speaker 3: This.
[3:41:06] Speaker 1: This is a treasure what you've just done. This. This
[3:41:08] Speaker 1: should be a national treasure of jokes. This should be
[3:41:11] Speaker 1: in every joke book. Electricity has a term called grounding,
[3:41:17] Speaker 1: and then also conducts is what electricity does? You have
[3:41:21] Speaker 1: a conductor that allows you to conduct electricity properly, which
[3:41:26] Speaker 1: you couldn't do if you're not grounded properly. And phasing
[3:41:30] Speaker 1: is another electricity term, and resistance is another electricity term.
[3:41:34] Speaker 1: There's so many good terms used correctly in the sentence
[3:41:37] Speaker 1: that a just chef's hats off to you, chef's kiss.
[3:41:40] Speaker 1: Fel fun. That was magnificent. I appreciate that, And Insidio
[3:41:44] Speaker 1: says hi justin a first live but seen all videos. Question,
[3:41:48] Speaker 1: was the keeper of the query? He who sets in
[3:41:52] Speaker 1: stone Doug ever a Jehovah's fitness Wait, hold on, okay,
[3:41:58] Speaker 1: I'll try this again. Was the keeper of the query?
[3:42:01] Speaker 1: I don't know who?
[3:42:02] Speaker 7: That is.
[3:42:05] Speaker 1: Ended in a period, not a question, he who sits
[3:42:09] Speaker 1: in stone Doug ever A Jehovah flitness. I don't fully
[3:42:14] Speaker 1: understand your question, but was I ever a Jehovah Witness?
[3:42:17] Speaker 3: I was not. I was not.
[3:42:18] Speaker 1: But thank you for being here, friend, thank you for
[3:42:19] Speaker 1: super chatting, and rock hard for Doug. Speaking of Doug,
[3:42:24] Speaker 1: thank you for the super chat. My friend says, bad news.
[3:42:26] Speaker 1: I just had to spend a bunch of money on
[3:42:28] Speaker 1: home foundation peers. Oh yeah, they're They're the worst and
[3:42:32] Speaker 1: super expensive, but I mean they are part of the
[3:42:36] Speaker 1: building code. If your foundation is boeing, you have to
[3:42:39] Speaker 1: put the peers in. Says good news. Adele and I
[3:42:41] Speaker 1: are now firmly affixed to the bedrock of salvation. Praise Doug. Well,
[3:42:46] Speaker 1: the bedrock of salvation you already know is in fact Doug.
[3:42:48] Speaker 1: In fact, if Doug was in the foundation to begin with,
[3:42:51] Speaker 1: you wouldn't have needed peers.
[3:42:53] Speaker 3: So there's that.
[3:42:54] Speaker 1: For those who don't know what foundation peers are, you
[3:42:56] Speaker 1: just gonn to google that one. And I apologize. Johanna says,
[3:42:59] Speaker 1: definitely time to get rid of this. No it all.
[3:43:02] Speaker 1: He can't even fork over a few bucks a month
[3:43:04] Speaker 1: for knowledge. That's the craziest thing is people like I'll
[3:43:07] Speaker 1: put together a document and then they'll think like I
[3:43:12] Speaker 1: owe it to them. I don't owe you shit. I mean, like, listen,
[3:43:15] Speaker 1: if you want the document, you gotta get it the
[3:43:17] Speaker 1: way everyone else does that. Guy Fox, thank you for
[3:43:20] Speaker 1: the ten that I was super ches great name. By
[3:43:22] Speaker 1: the way, May Doug granted you the stone to endure
[3:43:25] Speaker 1: the flood of silly these guests levy upon you. Well,
[3:43:30] Speaker 1: I'm gonna need something. I appreciate the I do appreciate
[3:43:33] Speaker 1: the kind words and the support, and trust me, I
[3:43:36] Speaker 1: do need a little help from Doug to get through
[3:43:38] Speaker 1: the flood. Maybe that's what the Charge of Clay were
[3:43:42] Speaker 1: singing about all the time. Space Lord says, I don't
[3:43:44] Speaker 1: get how a contradiction is an issue. Isn't that crazy?
[3:43:47] Speaker 1: He said that right. We started by saying there was
[3:43:50] Speaker 1: no contradictions. Then he tried to quickly pivot and say, no, no, no,
[3:43:54] Speaker 1: there's no meaningful contradictions. So I picked one about the law,
[3:43:57] Speaker 1: because whether or not you should follow the law seems
[3:43:59] Speaker 1: to be pretty fucking meaningful contradiction. And then he equivocated
[3:44:03] Speaker 1: even on that. Space Lord says, laws that would be
[3:44:06] Speaker 1: completed would state how to Yeah. I agree, yeah, laws
[3:44:11] Speaker 1: that need completed do have regulations, and the Law of
[3:44:14] Speaker 1: Moses does have a regulations.
[3:44:15] Speaker 3: You know that.
[3:44:16] Speaker 1: Friend, mister Morpheus, my friend ger to see it says
[3:44:18] Speaker 1: Christians are contortionists, simple as a one hundred percent factual.
[3:44:22] Speaker 1: There are no lives detected in that statement. They are contortionists.
[3:44:26] Speaker 1: And jerm says, we can't create codes in writing. Authors
[3:44:29] Speaker 1: write entire sonnets that are palindrome. You could turn the
[3:44:33] Speaker 1: whole thing around and it is the same. Palindromes are
[3:44:37] Speaker 1: really good. Actually, so this does bring up a good
[3:44:39] Speaker 1: point because now you're on the topic of like Bible codes,
[3:44:42] Speaker 1: there are if you actually look at what the Massoretic
[3:44:46] Speaker 1: scribes did in the Hebrew documents. The Massoretic scribes did
[3:44:50] Speaker 1: do a little bit of tinkering to hide some Easter
[3:44:53] Speaker 1: eggs in there. There are actually some true to life
[3:44:58] Speaker 1: Easter eggs, what you might call a Bible codes, in
[3:45:01] Speaker 1: only the Massoretic text, not in the original Hebrew text,
[3:45:04] Speaker 1: in the Massoretic text. But we don't have time to
[3:45:07] Speaker 1: worry about that now. Space Lord says, the only code
[3:45:10] Speaker 1: I need is up, up, down, down, left, right, left,
[3:45:13] Speaker 1: right be a start? Is it left right or is
[3:45:16] Speaker 1: it right left? I always forget, but that's the Konami
[3:45:19] Speaker 1: cheat code, and hell yeah, the Konami cheat code will
[3:45:21] Speaker 1: always be more powerful than Jesus. El teen, thank you
[3:45:25] Speaker 1: so much for the fifty hours super chat. I super
[3:45:27] Speaker 1: appreciate that. That's super generous. My friend big W says,
[3:45:31] Speaker 1: every third letter of John three sixteen spells glare feil
[3:45:38] Speaker 1: gota lou gotka la la loo, which means cold spaghetti
[3:45:42] Speaker 1: in a Scottish early progressive Martian, which has thirteen letters,
[3:45:46] Speaker 1: tribe of Israel, and is a food made of wheat
[3:45:49] Speaker 1: like bread. Conclusion, Jesus is the bread of life. That
[3:45:52] Speaker 1: makes perfect sense now that you've revealed that information to me,
[3:45:56] Speaker 1: el teen, I think our stream tomorrow is going to
[3:46:00] Speaker 1: be why aren't you a Christian convert to Christianity like me?
[3:46:03] Speaker 1: You've convinced me. I mean, that is essentially what they're
[3:46:08] Speaker 1: doing with these dumb Bible codes. Though Fider says he
[3:46:11] Speaker 1: could have just said forty two. I know that would
[3:46:14] Speaker 1: be so easy. And if you don't know what that
[3:46:16] Speaker 1: joke is going to you'll figure it out eventually. Adam says,
[3:46:19] Speaker 1: I knew Luke Skywalker was a messiah when he had
[3:46:21] Speaker 1: his force kin removed. That was good. I appreciate that.
[3:46:26] Speaker 1: That was a bonafide, bonafide dad joke. I appreciate that.
[3:46:31] Speaker 1: Adam big W, big big W for that. And Jimmy
[3:46:35] Speaker 1: Peterson says, Doug saw the f skin and he did
[3:46:39] Speaker 1: not give an f That's one hundred percent right. Doug
[3:46:42] Speaker 1: doesn't need your foreskin, friends, will Doug will never ask
[3:46:46] Speaker 1: you to cut yourself off or be cut off. He
[3:46:48] Speaker 1: won't do that. Mardick, thank you for the one twenty
[3:46:51] Speaker 1: nine sek big W says, always entertaining with callers pretzling
[3:46:55] Speaker 1: into Gordian knots on your channel, keep on cooking. I
[3:46:59] Speaker 1: appreciate that, and that really is the case. Listen, when
[3:47:02] Speaker 1: you're up here and you're defending your faith, you have
[3:47:05] Speaker 1: one of two options. You can look at the evidence
[3:47:07] Speaker 1: and be like, oh shit, yeah, that's interesting that you
[3:47:09] Speaker 1: brought that up. It looks like you're right, or or
[3:47:12] Speaker 1: you can twist yourself into a thousand fundzing pretzels and
[3:47:15] Speaker 1: you could be a dishonest posff. Jam In, Sorry, jam Nick,
[3:47:20] Speaker 1: thank you for the supertest, says Jerp. Chirp yeah, chirp
[3:47:24] Speaker 1: thirty seconds, chirp thirty seconds, chirp thirty seconds, chirp thirty
[3:47:28] Speaker 1: seconds chirp, smoke detector awareness, change your batteries. I'll never
[3:47:32] Speaker 1: understand why people have smoke detectors and they don't change
[3:47:35] Speaker 1: their batteries. If literally, if I went a whole day,
[3:47:40] Speaker 1: just one whole day, listening to a smoke detector chirp
[3:47:43] Speaker 1: like that, I would lose my mind. I would go insane.
[3:47:46] Speaker 1: I couldn't tolerate it. My brain isn't ready for that. Tim,
[3:47:50] Speaker 1: my friend said, for my dad a roofer. Dad, if
[3:47:53] Speaker 1: you're up there, grace be upon you, but not too much.
[3:47:57] Speaker 1: She's huge. Okay. I like that joke, Tim, Okay, I
[3:48:00] Speaker 1: like that one. That was a good one. That was
[3:48:02] Speaker 1: a good huge grace joke. But I agree, if your
[3:48:05] Speaker 1: dad's on the roof, keep huge grace away, huge grace,
[3:48:09] Speaker 1: it might be bad. So Cool says a great day
[3:48:13] Speaker 1: to be part of the Church of Doug. Actually every
[3:48:15] Speaker 1: so cool. Every day is a good day to be
[3:48:17] Speaker 1: part of the Church of Doug. And Marcus, my friend,
[3:48:19] Speaker 1: thank you so so much for sending out five Dasy
[3:48:22] Speaker 1: Debates memberships. That's super, super generous. And remember the memberships
[3:48:26] Speaker 1: are the backbone of the channel. The memberships really helped
[3:48:29] Speaker 1: to keep all this stuff going and you get access
[3:48:32] Speaker 1: to the deconstruction cheat sheet master Michellier says, I was
[3:48:35] Speaker 1: a Christian longer than you have been alive. Yeah, isn't
[3:48:38] Speaker 1: that funny that they we have like these little Christian
[3:48:41] Speaker 1: like tater tots up here trying to teach us about
[3:48:45] Speaker 1: Christianity when we have been Christians for longer than they've
[3:48:48] Speaker 1: literally been alive. Before we decided it was all bullshit.
[3:48:50] Speaker 1: But yeah, tell me, tell me what you've learned in
[3:48:53] Speaker 1: the five years that you've been a Christian. Marcus, thank
[3:48:55] Speaker 1: you so much for the additional super chat friend says
[3:48:58] Speaker 1: this was such a good barbie. I had to make
[3:49:00] Speaker 1: sure others get some great cook in today. What a
[3:49:03] Speaker 1: blood bath, Lamu. Yeah, it kind of was. They didn't
[3:49:07] Speaker 1: come to perform. I mean something was performed on them,
[3:49:11] Speaker 1: that's for sure, a beating. Holler Furfee, Holy shit, Haller Furfrey,
[3:49:17] Speaker 1: thank you so fucking much for sending out fifty easy
[3:49:20] Speaker 1: Debate memberships. That's fucking huge. Thank you so so much, friend,
[3:49:24] Speaker 1: that's incredibly generous. Let's get some wuts for Hollo Furfee.
[3:49:27] Speaker 1: That's crazy and hard work, says I'm purchasing indulgences from Doug. Well,
[3:49:33] Speaker 1: the good news is, you know all you have to
[3:49:35] Speaker 1: do is be remorseful. You never have to purchase your forgiveness.
[3:49:39] Speaker 1: Doug will forgive anybody. And Saint Brush says, imagine my
[3:49:42] Speaker 1: shock when the Christians. When Christians don't read yet, they don't,
[3:49:45] Speaker 1: they can't. They went to Christian schools. They barely learned
[3:49:49] Speaker 1: the alphabet. Rude says, it must be painful to add
[3:49:53] Speaker 1: that your faith is based on contradictions. That makes it rocky.
[3:49:57] Speaker 1: But still Arnov is surely a plauded by David David
[3:50:02] Speaker 1: Dunning and Justin Kruger. Yeah, it's true. Truth. Listen, I
[3:50:07] Speaker 1: agree with you. Truth. It's hard. It's hard to be
[3:50:10] Speaker 1: looking at your religion and say, shit, there's problems, there's contradictions.
[3:50:14] Speaker 1: It's hard. I get it.
[3:50:15] Speaker 3: I was there.
[3:50:16] Speaker 1: But at some point you have to be honest. Chambermaid,
[3:50:20] Speaker 1: thank you for the ten that our super jet says.
[3:50:22] Speaker 1: You don't have to be educated to understand that religion
[3:50:24] Speaker 1: was created by patriarchical rulers to justify their abuse of others.
[3:50:28] Speaker 1: It was a literal power play. I think that is
[3:50:31] Speaker 1: quite literally the truth for a lot of the religions.
[3:50:33] Speaker 1: I think that is the case, so we agree. Mitchell
[3:50:37] Speaker 1: says it will never get old watching you Ian Blitz
[3:50:41] Speaker 1: rake these folks across the coals. Keep it up. Obviously,
[3:50:44] Speaker 1: because coals are a form of rock. Obviously we're gonna
[3:50:47] Speaker 1: rake them over the rocks, my friend. Thank you, Mitchell.
[3:50:51] Speaker 1: I appreciate you being here support and watching. And doctor
[3:50:53] Speaker 1: Pizza says, here's some more money to fund your mission
[3:50:56] Speaker 1: to read the Bible with Christians or two Christians. One
[3:50:59] Speaker 1: day they will look down and see Doug is the
[3:51:02] Speaker 1: bedrock they stand. Absolutely, Doug is the absolute bedrock. I mean,
[3:51:06] Speaker 1: have you even seen the moving stones even in the desert.
[3:51:10] Speaker 1: Stones even move in the desert. Just look up the
[3:51:13] Speaker 1: moving stones in the desert. I mean, Doug is everywhere.
[3:51:16] Speaker 1: When you look back and you saw that there was
[3:51:18] Speaker 1: no footprints in the stand, Doug was carring your ass
[3:51:23] Speaker 1: sea design. Thank you for the super jest. Dunning Kruger
[3:51:26] Speaker 1: National Park is an afterlife reserve where Justin's burnt religious
[3:51:30] Speaker 1: offerings reside after getting cooked. Maybe we need to rope
[3:51:34] Speaker 1: that off. We're gonna make that a national monument. Friends,
[3:51:38] Speaker 1: and Ohio boy big w says, my dude, was pig roasted. Yeah,
[3:51:43] Speaker 1: it didn't. It didn't turn out good for him. He
[3:51:45] Speaker 1: was nice enough about it, but Arnov got cooked he
[3:51:50] Speaker 1: Jonesy says, scent, I'm sorry sent he didn't say he
[3:51:53] Speaker 1: sent five DZ Debates membership, So I appreciate that, Jonesy,
[3:51:57] Speaker 1: I really do appreciate that, friend, and five I have
[3:52:00] Speaker 1: more from our friend, doctor Pizza, big w Doctor Pizza,
[3:52:03] Speaker 1: thank you for sending out five DZ Debates memberships and
[3:52:07] Speaker 1: coming in from infinny Ryu. Thank you so much for
[3:52:10] Speaker 1: the twenty New Zealand dollars, big w of friend. He says,
[3:52:14] Speaker 1: saying atheism is nonsensical because something can't come from nothing
[3:52:18] Speaker 1: is the most dishonest shifting of the burden when Christians
[3:52:21] Speaker 1: literally believe creation ex. Nihilo. Frank Turk is perhaps the
[3:52:24] Speaker 1: worst offender in this. I agree. Saying that something can't
[3:52:29] Speaker 1: come from nothing, first of all, is a shift because
[3:52:32] Speaker 1: that's not even our claim. I don't know any atheists
[3:52:35] Speaker 1: that believes that something came from nothing. But even if
[3:52:38] Speaker 1: it did, even if that were the case, I have
[3:52:40] Speaker 1: no reason to believe that it would have come from
[3:52:42] Speaker 1: a god. Dan says, does Arnoff qualify for a top
[3:52:46] Speaker 1: left award. I don't know what that means, but he
[3:52:50] Speaker 1: he does qualify as having bad arguments. Marcus says, not
[3:52:54] Speaker 1: only did Jeff dunk on this kid, Jeff did do
[3:52:57] Speaker 1: some duncan pa. He posterized him, great setup and slammed
[3:53:02] Speaker 1: by him. Their dude is always on the point. That dude,
[3:53:06] Speaker 1: Jeff is always on point too. By the way, there's
[3:53:10] Speaker 1: a reason why Jeff comes up and joins me because
[3:53:12] Speaker 1: he comes up with the fire already lit, like he's
[3:53:16] Speaker 1: already ready to cook. When he gets here, Castle's in curiosity,
[3:53:19] Speaker 1: he's thinking for the supertest says, I know I'm a
[3:53:21] Speaker 1: little late on this one, but why do we always
[3:53:23] Speaker 1: hear Jesus didn't abolish the laws, but he ended them.
[3:53:27] Speaker 1: Because Christians don't know how words work. They know that
[3:53:30] Speaker 1: the rest of the New Testament teaches the laws we're abolished,
[3:53:33] Speaker 1: So when they get the Jesus they have to look
[3:53:35] Speaker 1: at Jesus and find a way to say that he
[3:53:37] Speaker 1: meant to abolish them. They just can't do it because
[3:53:40] Speaker 1: Jesus doesn't say it. And Yodah says, when it comes
[3:53:43] Speaker 1: to God saying not to change the laws, and then
[3:53:46] Speaker 1: Jesus coming and changing the laws. Isn't the work around
[3:53:48] Speaker 1: that Jesus is God and can therefore change the laws.
[3:53:50] Speaker 1: Blessed be the stone yeat. That talking point does come
[3:53:53] Speaker 1: up a lot, but it doesn't fix the problem. The
[3:53:55] Speaker 1: problem is it still becomes a contradiction. And it's also
[3:53:57] Speaker 1: a problem because Jesus didn't say that he was getting
[3:54:00] Speaker 1: rid of the law. He did change them, however, which
[3:54:03] Speaker 1: means if Jesus is God, he contradicted himself. And I
[3:54:07] Speaker 1: think that's silly to believe that God would tell people
[3:54:09] Speaker 1: to follow the law forever and then come back later
[3:54:11] Speaker 1: and say, oh, I change my mind, because remember, God
[3:54:12] Speaker 1: can't change his mind. According to number twenty three nineteen
[3:54:15] Speaker 1: and first seam of chapter fifteen, verse twenty nine, Aaron says,
[3:54:18] Speaker 1: today's theme seems to be I want to preach on
[3:54:21] Speaker 1: someone else's lives. Please let me preach my weird conspiracies.
[3:54:25] Speaker 1: I am shocked, actually, Aaron, by the amount of people
[3:54:27] Speaker 1: who get up here just to preach. It doesn't make
[3:54:30] Speaker 1: any sense to me as a Christian, I would have
[3:54:32] Speaker 1: never done that. I wanted to engage in intellectual dialogue.
[3:54:35] Speaker 1: I guess that's why I'm an atheist now. Nicker Doodle,
[3:54:37] Speaker 1: my friend, thank you for being here, and thank you
[3:54:39] Speaker 1: for the superchest says hey. Justin. The book says ninety eight, which,
[3:54:43] Speaker 1: as you know, is the sound of blue, which smells
[3:54:47] Speaker 1: like eleven. Thus the Bible equals cheese. I mean, duh,
[3:54:50] Speaker 1: I'm smart Nicker. I love that jet. That's a great superjet.
[3:54:58] Speaker 1: That's essentially what they're trying to do Nebraska. Steve is
[3:55:01] Speaker 1: the worst offender of this. I ziterady, and thank you
[3:55:06] Speaker 1: for the ten that I was super jet Justin. I
[3:55:08] Speaker 1: really do appreciate what you're doing and what you've done
[3:55:10] Speaker 1: truly God's work. Seriously, thank you for the time you've invested.
[3:55:14] Speaker 1: You're wonderful, as is your community. I really appreciate that.
[3:55:18] Speaker 1: And first of all, I'm nothing without the community. The
[3:55:20] Speaker 1: community is what enables me to be what I am, right,
[3:55:23] Speaker 1: so I love the community as well. The deconstruction community
[3:55:28] Speaker 1: to me is like a second family. So if you're deconstructing,
[3:55:32] Speaker 1: you need somewhere to go. Join the discord, be part
[3:55:34] Speaker 1: of the community, joining these live streams. A lot of
[3:55:38] Speaker 1: people out here that love and support support each other
[3:55:41] Speaker 1: and coming in a second time. Thank you again. Also,
[3:55:43] Speaker 1: he says I do have one question. I'm curious about.
[3:55:45] Speaker 1: Exodus twelve twelve talks about God executing judgment. I love
[3:55:49] Speaker 1: this question executing judgment on the gods of Egypt. What's
[3:55:52] Speaker 1: the scholarly thoughts on that curious wording. I've always been intrigued.
[3:55:56] Speaker 1: So according to most modern Old Testaments scholars, there were
[3:56:01] Speaker 1: in fact multiple gods. They get translated as angels in
[3:56:04] Speaker 1: the Greek septuagen and then in later subsequent English translations,
[3:56:08] Speaker 1: but a lot of times in the Hebrew text it
[3:56:10] Speaker 1: refers to them as sons of God. And this comes
[3:56:12] Speaker 1: from the Canaanite pantheon, which taught that el we know
[3:56:15] Speaker 1: him as Eloheim, was in fact the high deity who
[3:56:19] Speaker 1: had seventy sons, and those seventy sons were lower tiered
[3:56:23] Speaker 1: gods referred to as the Elohim, and they abided over
[3:56:27] Speaker 1: the nations. In fact, if you go to one second
[3:56:33] Speaker 1: Sirac seventeen seventeen, I believe this in fact gets pointed out,
[3:56:39] Speaker 1: and it's in Deuteronomy thirty two eight. But if you
[3:56:43] Speaker 1: go to Sirac seventeen sixteen and seventeen, this idea that
[3:56:48] Speaker 1: there are like angelic beans over each nation that are
[3:56:55] Speaker 1: the sons of God shows up. It's right there. In fact,
[3:56:57] Speaker 1: a lot of people have written about this. Even Christian
[3:57:00] Speaker 1: haven't written about this. So Sirah says he, why did
[3:57:05] Speaker 1: it not give me verse sixteen? That's weird. I told
[3:57:08] Speaker 1: you to give me sixteen. It's not giving me sixteen. Whatever,
[3:57:11] Speaker 1: I'll just do the whole chapter. You don't want to
[3:57:13] Speaker 1: give me sixteen, I'll take it. Oh, because there's not
[3:57:16] Speaker 1: sixteen in this edition.
[3:57:18] Speaker 3: Cool.
[3:57:19] Speaker 1: Their ways are always before him, they will not be
[3:57:22] Speaker 1: hidden from his eyes. He appointed a ruler for every nation,
[3:57:25] Speaker 1: but Israel's is the lord or Yahweh's own portion. A
[3:57:30] Speaker 1: ruler for every nation, Yahway's own portion being Israel. This
[3:57:35] Speaker 1: obviously should remind you of Deuteronomy thirty two, where it says,
[3:57:42] Speaker 1: remember the days of old, considering the year's long pass,
[3:57:46] Speaker 1: ask your father, and he will inform you your elders,
[3:57:48] Speaker 1: and they will tell you when the most High apportion
[3:57:50] Speaker 1: the nations. He divided humankind and fixed the boundaries of
[3:57:54] Speaker 1: the people according to the number of the sons of
[3:57:56] Speaker 1: the gods, the number of the number of the God, sorry,
[3:58:00] Speaker 1: the number of the gods. So the ancient Israetes were polytheistic.
[3:58:06] Speaker 1: Henotheistic is the right way to say it. This was
[3:58:10] Speaker 1: a the monotheism is a late invention. Miko says, if
[3:58:15] Speaker 1: you heard the story before, don't stop me. I'd like
[3:58:16] Speaker 1: to hear it again. A Christian reading out the chapter
[3:58:19] Speaker 1: thinking nobody has ever read it. Miko, you nailed it.
[3:58:22] Speaker 1: I'll never understand why they get up here and they
[3:58:24] Speaker 1: listen to me and they think I just need to
[3:58:27] Speaker 1: have it read to me like I've never heard it before,
[3:58:29] Speaker 1: and Try says, please get more mods in the horizontal stream.
[3:58:33] Speaker 1: There's some disgusting racists here attacking the guests for their
[3:58:36] Speaker 1: ethnic background. Shit, I didn't know that. Guys, if you're
[3:58:41] Speaker 1: in the horizontal stream, hit me up on the discord.
[3:58:44] Speaker 1: I'll add you as a moderator if you're capable of modding. Also,
[3:58:47] Speaker 1: I'll get with Benny. Benny can add mods for me.
[3:58:50] Speaker 1: Thank you for letting me know, Dave says, love the lives,
[3:58:53] Speaker 1: thanks for the deconstruction help. Sometimes I can't believe how
[3:58:55] Speaker 1: certain people are when they know they have no idea
[3:58:57] Speaker 1: what they're talking about. Keep exposing, keep cooking, Dave. To me,
[3:59:01] Speaker 1: that's the funnest thing when I get somebody in here
[3:59:03] Speaker 1: that is completely devoid of actually knowing what's in the Bible,
[3:59:07] Speaker 1: and they're so confident that they know it, like they
[3:59:10] Speaker 1: just know that they're going to get up here and
[3:59:12] Speaker 1: teach the atheist. And then of course it never happens,
[3:59:16] Speaker 1: never happens, Josh says Bovines three verse move, thou shalt
[3:59:21] Speaker 1: circumcise thyself for being an utter embarrassment. Very good use
[3:59:27] Speaker 1: of words. Keith is cut off from reality. Slavery apologists
[3:59:31] Speaker 1: are wild. They are wild. The good news is I
[3:59:35] Speaker 1: like no one sees through it. Slavery apologists never succeed.
[3:59:39] Speaker 1: And Morpheus says, meant, you can't live among us in
[3:59:42] Speaker 1: less circumcised. Well, I mean, yes, that is the case.
[3:59:45] Speaker 1: You can't live among us and participate in our rituals
[3:59:48] Speaker 1: unless you're circumcised. But certainly they could live among them.
[3:59:52] Speaker 1: David says, Oh my, Doug, I'm back. I'm back. You
[3:59:55] Speaker 1: are still at it, awesome doing back to watch swing?
[4:00:00] Speaker 1: You ask close, David, that might be a little over
[4:00:07] Speaker 1: my head here, I'm back. Your I was on for
[4:00:11] Speaker 1: a while. It's awesome A swing, you asked, I don't know.
[4:00:14] Speaker 1: I guess I've forgotten where the word swing comes into
[4:00:17] Speaker 1: the conversation, So I apologize I may not get your joke.
[4:00:19] Speaker 1: But David, thank you so much for being here, and
[4:00:21] Speaker 1: thank you for supporting the channel. I really appreciate that.
[4:00:24] Speaker 1: And I've got just enough time for like three more
[4:00:26] Speaker 1: super chats because I'm at my five o'clock. Mark Mayvith says,
[4:00:31] Speaker 1: these crack me up talk about seeking something when most
[4:00:34] Speaker 1: were indoctrinated as babies out of the womb and did
[4:00:37] Speaker 1: not did no seeking, just confirming their bias. Maybe this
[4:00:42] Speaker 1: is actually the case. So most people come about the
[4:00:46] Speaker 1: religion based on where they grew up and how they
[4:00:48] Speaker 1: grew up.
[4:00:49] Speaker 3: That's it.
[4:00:49] Speaker 1: That's all. And Angelo, last super chat, Thank you so
[4:00:53] Speaker 1: so much, Angela, I really appreciate it. So, speaking of
[4:00:56] Speaker 1: consummating with Christ quite a while ago, I let Christ
[4:00:58] Speaker 1: come inside me, I'm no longer a believer. Did I
[4:01:01] Speaker 1: miss my opportunity to come inside of him? Well? I
[4:01:04] Speaker 1: think you did, Angelo, because the Bible says that Christ
[4:01:09] Speaker 1: will remain in you if you remain in him, and
[4:01:12] Speaker 1: being that He's no longer remaining in you, I think
[4:01:14] Speaker 1: you might have missed your opportunity to enter Christ. So
[4:01:18] Speaker 1: that's a difficult concept. I get it. But in order
[4:01:20] Speaker 1: to enter Christ, he has to already be inside of you.
[4:01:23] Speaker 1: It's a really weird, kinky thing that probably involves a
[4:01:26] Speaker 1: little bit of reach around. I haven't quite worked out
[4:01:28] Speaker 1: the geometry of the whole thing yet, but you may
[4:01:32] Speaker 1: or may not have missed the opportunity. I'm sorry to
[4:01:34] Speaker 1: hear that.
[4:01:35] Speaker 3: Now.
[4:01:35] Speaker 1: Listen, friends, I apologize. There's probably like seven or eight
[4:01:37] Speaker 1: super chats I couldn't get to. It's my bad. I apologize.
[4:01:41] Speaker 1: I shouldn't let that last guest drone on and on
[4:01:43] Speaker 1: and on, but we were having a good time cooking them,
[4:01:47] Speaker 1: so I apologize for that. We get a longer stream tomorrow.
[4:01:50] Speaker 1: Tomorrow is gonna be a longer stream, so I should
[4:01:52] Speaker 1: have plenty of time to read all the superchats before
[4:01:55] Speaker 1: I'm run out of time. And then in the fall,
[4:01:57] Speaker 1: Remember in the fall, we're going to go back to
[4:02:00] Speaker 1: our long streams all the time, and I can. I'll
[4:02:03] Speaker 1: never miss a super chat. But thank you everyone who
[4:02:06] Speaker 1: liked and shared and supported, and thank you to all
[4:02:08] Speaker 1: the mods. Thank you for everyone who's subbed, thank you
[4:02:10] Speaker 1: to everyone who's super chat. You guys are the ones
[4:02:13] Speaker 1: that make the show possible. So thank you so so much,
[4:02:16] Speaker 1: and we'll see you again tomorrow. Jeff, thank you for
[4:02:19] Speaker 1: joining me. And if you haven't followed Jeff, make sure
[4:02:22] Speaker 1: you're dropping a follow.
[4:02:25] Speaker 7: It's always fun to be on your lives. Justin because
[4:02:29] Speaker 7: it's a huge.
[4:02:32] Speaker 1: We need a marshmallow brain emoji, but I don't want
[4:02:34] Speaker 1: to take your thunder.
[4:02:36] Speaker 7: You know you know what you can do, and I'm
[4:02:40] Speaker 7: gonna shamelessly promote is get your marshmallow brain coffee mug
[4:02:46] Speaker 7: or Tumblr on my merch store.
[4:02:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, guys, go to Jeff's merch or and get yourself
[4:02:51] Speaker 1: a marshmallow Brain merch I approve of this. Doug approves.
[4:02:57] Speaker 1: All right, friends, we'll see you again tomorrow. Have a
[4:02:59] Speaker 1: great eight one, Happy deconstructing.

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