# 2025-03-01 LIVE DEBATE \[God is Imaginary\]

An episode of [Deconstruction Zone](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1837730286), 4 Sep 2025, 4 h 33 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/67637894/2025_03_01_live_debate_god_is_imaginary.mp3

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## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: All right, we should be live here in just a minute.
[0:03] Speaker 1: I think we're live on TikTok. I think we're about
[0:07] Speaker 1: live on Facebook in YouTube stream should be open. We'll
[0:12] Speaker 1: be live on Instagram in just a second. I think
[0:16] Speaker 1: we're live on TikTok. I think we're about live on
[0:21] Speaker 1: Facebook in YouTube stream should be open. We'll be live
[0:25] Speaker 1: on Instagram in just a second. I think we're live
[0:29] Speaker 1: on TikTok. I think we're about live on Facebook and
[0:35] Speaker 1: YouTube stream should be open. We'll be live on Instagram
[0:39] Speaker 1: in just a second. Got a weird situation happening with
[0:53] Speaker 1: my headphones. Let me restart my headphones real quick, getting
[0:56] Speaker 1: like a weird double feedback.
[1:04] Speaker 2: Mhm.
[1:19] Speaker 1: I think my microphone selected. Okay, I think the audio
[1:23] Speaker 1: issue is resolved. Give me one second. I think we
[1:29] Speaker 1: should be read of rock and Roll. I don't know
[1:31] Speaker 1: what's happened there, all right, guys, microphone selected okay. I
[1:35] Speaker 1: think the audio is hold on. Something's looping like crazy.
[1:47] Speaker 1: I think that was, uh, the situation happening with Instagram.
[1:52] Speaker 1: I had the Instagram stream open, and usually, oh, usually
[1:57] Speaker 1: the audio is off by default on the Instagram stream.
[2:02] Speaker 1: For some reason, the Instagram stream opened up the audio
[2:06] Speaker 1: on its own, so I was getting audio feeding back
[2:10] Speaker 1: from the browser. We should be good to go now.
[2:11] Speaker 1: Sorry about that, guys, Parker, Thank you for the fish
[2:15] Speaker 1: big w Parker. All right, guys, welcome in. Sorry for
[2:18] Speaker 1: the delay. Good to see you, guys. Great to see you.
[2:21] Speaker 1: I've been off for a couple of days, had some
[2:24] Speaker 1: special events going on. Work was crazy. Then I got
[2:28] Speaker 1: called in last minute to debate with Ip inspiring philosophy
[2:35] Speaker 1: on the Tim Poole Show. And back in the homeland again. Though,
[2:41] Speaker 1: I give me a second, let me open up the
[2:42] Speaker 1: guest boxes, and let me open up the guest box
[2:48] Speaker 1: on YouTube. Before I forget one second. The guest box
[2:52] Speaker 1: on TikTok should be open. There we go in. The
[3:01] Speaker 1: guest box on YouTube should be open as well. All right,
[3:07] Speaker 1: So if you're watching on YouTube, you can go to
[3:10] Speaker 1: the comment or the description section of the video. You'll
[3:14] Speaker 1: find a link to join the discussion. If you're on TikTok,
[3:18] Speaker 1: well you already know how to get on. If you're
[3:19] Speaker 1: on TikTok, you just got to do, you know, the
[3:21] Speaker 1: TikTok thing. And before we get started, we have a
[3:25] Speaker 1: really good question from rock Badger cud thank you so
[3:28] Speaker 1: much for the superchat says is a KJV wright when
[3:30] Speaker 1: it says the Philistines made golden idols in the image
[3:33] Speaker 1: of their own hemorrhoids, not not so much. There's a
[3:41] Speaker 1: theory on this, by the way. The theory goes that
[3:45] Speaker 1: the King James translators we're using in Old English word emrhids,
[3:50] Speaker 1: which could or could not refer to bloody tumors. There
[3:56] Speaker 1: was some there was some theory that the King James
[4:01] Speaker 1: translators understood tumors and hemorrhoids to be roughly synonymous, but
[4:07] Speaker 1: it's kind of conjectural. We don't really know what was
[4:09] Speaker 1: going through the mind of the King James translators. What
[4:11] Speaker 1: I do know is that the Hebrew word in almost
[4:16] Speaker 1: all modern Bibles today is translated as tumor instead of hemorrhoids.
[4:21] Speaker 1: And there's been quite a bit of ink spilled on
[4:23] Speaker 1: this particular topic. So I wouldn't trust I would not
[4:27] Speaker 1: trust the Bible on this particular topic that there's no
[4:30] Speaker 1: hemorrhoids that are mentioned in the Bible. Welcome man, Planet Peterson.
[4:37] Speaker 3: I've never heard that there are hemorrhoids in the KJV
[4:41] Speaker 3: before and unicorns the way people hoist that version up
[4:48] Speaker 3: as just the be all end all is just so
[4:52] Speaker 3: weird to me.
[4:53] Speaker 1: It's wild. Give me a second to get the TikTok
[4:55] Speaker 1: guest box situated. I'm going to put you on the
[4:58] Speaker 1: screen so people can see you on the YouTube stream
[5:02] Speaker 1: as well. No problem, and then we've got a guest
[5:08] Speaker 1: already waiting to come in. One second. Guys, while we're
[5:20] Speaker 1: getting this set up, if you're not already following Planet
[5:22] Speaker 1: Peter said, make sure you do. He's got an awesome channel,
[5:26] Speaker 1: and I think we're about ready to rock and roll.
[5:35] Speaker 1: Very good and La Silver Surfers, good to see you tonight.
[5:39] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the super thanks. I appreciate that.
[5:42] Speaker 1: And Dexter, welcome in. It's good to see a friend.
[5:45] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for supporting the channel and setting
[5:47] Speaker 1: out five Deconstruction Zone memberships. And as always, Reverend doctor
[5:52] Speaker 1: cal good to see you, my friend, thanks for being here.
[5:55] Speaker 1: And Benji says, just had my ghost blood praise Hail guess,
[6:00] Speaker 1: Hail Doug. And remember the Old Testament laws don't apply,
[6:04] Speaker 1: so you can eat as much blood as you want.
[6:07] Speaker 1: And last one one twenty three Bersurik, thank you for
[6:09] Speaker 1: the Supertest says IP looked like he wasn't trying to
[6:12] Speaker 1: debate Christianity at all. You can't tell me he doesn't
[6:15] Speaker 1: know about you. I did feel a bit of bias
[6:18] Speaker 1: from Temple. Yeah, Timpoole had talking points that he had
[6:21] Speaker 1: to get through. I didn't think that Ip, over the
[6:25] Speaker 1: course of our discussion was trying to be disingenuous about anything.
[6:29] Speaker 1: I think he came for a good faith discussion. But
[6:32] Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, if you run a news show and
[6:34] Speaker 1: you're paid by the right wing media and putin, you
[6:37] Speaker 1: have to make it through your talking points so you
[6:38] Speaker 1: don't get paid. All right, Well, get our first guest
[6:45] Speaker 1: to Gary, how you doing Canna.
[6:47] Speaker 4: Trash Yoh, I'm good? So I am a Christian, sure,
[6:53] Speaker 4: but like you guys would destroy me. So I just
[6:55] Speaker 4: want to come in here and say, like, I hope
[6:57] Speaker 4: you guys are having a good day.
[6:59] Speaker 5: So that's about it.
[7:00] Speaker 1: Man, what's awfully nice if you thank you?
[7:03] Speaker 5: Yeah, have a good day.
[7:05] Speaker 1: Hey, you too, have a great one. Well that was interesting.
[7:09] Speaker 1: You don't get that too often, do you.
[7:11] Speaker 3: No, Usually we get rebuked, you get a lot of rebuking,
[7:16] Speaker 3: rebuke you.
[7:19] Speaker 1: Chat, thank you so much? Balloons listen. I love a
[7:22] Speaker 1: good rebuking, some speaking in tongues, casting out a demons.
[7:30] Speaker 1: So we've got vig with us.
[7:31] Speaker 6: How you doing, Ben, I'm doing good.
[7:34] Speaker 7: Hey, I'm here for a good faith discussion. So just
[7:38] Speaker 7: one question, can something be made from nothing?
[7:45] Speaker 1: I don't believe it can? Peterson, I don't think you
[7:48] Speaker 1: believe either, right, No, sure, do you have an argument
[7:53] Speaker 1: that states that there was once nothing?
[7:57] Speaker 7: So when I look around, every where, everything has a maker.
[8:03] Speaker 1: Almost like I asked a question, does your argument necessitate
[8:07] Speaker 1: that there was once nothing?
[8:08] Speaker 6: Chat?
[8:08] Speaker 1: Thank you for the money gun?
[8:10] Speaker 7: There was once nothing? Yeah, no, there's always something.
[8:15] Speaker 1: I agree, Yeah, we both agree, So I guess we
[8:17] Speaker 1: don't have to have that argument. I don't think there
[8:19] Speaker 1: was ever nothing?
[8:21] Speaker 3: Yeah, why not universe be thing? Always?
[8:27] Speaker 7: Universe be things always?
[8:29] Speaker 3: Yep be So I was just trying to be a
[8:31] Speaker 3: little bit silly. But why why can the universe not
[8:34] Speaker 3: be the thing that's always been there?
[8:37] Speaker 1: It can that that can be?
[8:40] Speaker 7: So I guess what I'm trying to say is that
[8:42] Speaker 7: like everywhere that I look, there's always a maker, something
[8:47] Speaker 7: made something kind of this, this couch was made, TV
[8:52] Speaker 7: was made by something? Right, So you know, where I'm
[8:55] Speaker 7: going with the the question.
[8:57] Speaker 3: Well, yeah, but you're talking about stuff that we know
[8:59] Speaker 3: is intentionally structured, like there's teleology in those things. But
[9:05] Speaker 3: you're not you're not pointing to nature when you point
[9:08] Speaker 3: to any of those things. But I don't see I
[9:10] Speaker 3: don't see teleology or anything being created. I don't I
[9:15] Speaker 3: don't see anything being created literally at all in in nature.
[9:22] Speaker 1: You don't think anything's been created in nature?
[9:25] Speaker 3: No, No, things like things get re arranged into new forms.
[9:29] Speaker 3: But in terms of creation, no.
[9:35] Speaker 7: So how so how would you explain creation just by
[9:38] Speaker 7: the evolution?
[9:39] Speaker 1: Oh, doesn't exist, there's no creation.
[9:43] Speaker 7: Like I guess, I guess. My question is how is
[9:46] Speaker 7: everything made?
[9:48] Speaker 3: Sure? So I think the the thing is in a
[9:53] Speaker 3: in like a classical theistic tradition or a Christian Christian
[9:56] Speaker 3: tradition or whatever, this creation of everything is. There was
[10:00] Speaker 3: once literally nothing except God or the Word or the
[10:04] Speaker 3: logos or whatever it is they decided to believe, and
[10:07] Speaker 3: then through that all the stuff around us was created. Now,
[10:13] Speaker 3: what you're doing is you're pointing like if we look
[10:16] Speaker 3: at nature and we say things you know, appear like
[10:19] Speaker 3: at one time, you know, there's a tree out there
[10:21] Speaker 3: at one time that tree was not there, but it
[10:23] Speaker 3: wasn't created out of nothing. It's there is a sort
[10:27] Speaker 3: of creative process in nature, but none of it is
[10:31] Speaker 3: creating things from nothingness, which would be the only kind
[10:35] Speaker 3: of supporting evidence for this type of creation that is
[10:38] Speaker 3: in the traditional religious sense. But we don't have any
[10:41] Speaker 3: of that. So it's apples and oranges comparison.
[10:46] Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying.
[10:48] Speaker 7: I guess what I'm saying is that when I look around,
[10:51] Speaker 7: even in nature, everything has a design.
[10:54] Speaker 8: It doesn't sure, well, I mean it doesn't, and everything
[11:00] Speaker 8: works in harmony with each other, sure because we all
[11:03] Speaker 8: we all evolve together.
[11:06] Speaker 1: Right, So like, is the mud puddle in my backyard designed?
[11:12] Speaker 7: Well, the water was designed, the hole was designed.
[11:16] Speaker 1: Uh, you know the earth was designed?
[11:20] Speaker 6: Yes?
[11:20] Speaker 1: So can you think of one thing that's not designed?
[11:23] Speaker 6: Then?
[11:24] Speaker 7: M No, I don't think I if you can't distinguish
[11:30] Speaker 7: between something that's designed and something that's not designed, then
[11:33] Speaker 7: why would I trust you?
[11:34] Speaker 1: And saying that literally everything is designed.
[11:38] Speaker 7: Because the evidence around us speaks to that truth.
[11:43] Speaker 3: But but this is just circcular reasoning. The things around
[11:48] Speaker 3: us are designed, and that's the evidence that they are designed.
[11:52] Speaker 3: So what you want to try to look for here
[11:54] Speaker 3: is what something They call it a symmetry breaker. So
[11:58] Speaker 3: if you want to be able to convince us that
[12:00] Speaker 3: these things are designed, then you have to be able
[12:02] Speaker 3: to show us what things that aren't designed to look like.
[12:05] Speaker 3: But if you just if you doth proclaim that everything
[12:08] Speaker 3: is designed, then it's kind of like the weird thing
[12:12] Speaker 3: where it's like if everything is a blank, then nothing
[12:15] Speaker 3: is a blank.
[12:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying.
[12:21] Speaker 7: I can't come up with something that is not designed,
[12:23] Speaker 7: but I get your logic and where you're going with
[12:25] Speaker 7: the conversation. I don't have a good come back for that,
[12:29] Speaker 7: but I see you're.
[12:30] Speaker 1: Going with that, right sure. Yeah, well, then not to
[12:34] Speaker 1: derail the conversation. But let me you know, Plant Peters
[12:38] Speaker 1: and I have been been doing this for a while,
[12:40] Speaker 1: and you know, just because you sound like a really
[12:43] Speaker 1: nice guy, and this probably isn't the first or the
[12:46] Speaker 1: last time that you're going to come into these conversations. Yeah,
[12:50] Speaker 1: just know that the argument that you're making for God
[12:53] Speaker 1: right now is usually the first argument that atheists here,
[12:57] Speaker 1: and maybe one of the weakest. There are probably better
[13:00] Speaker 1: arguments you could come up with. That might be more compelling.
[13:04] Speaker 7: Hey, that's a good point. So what would be a
[13:07] Speaker 7: good compelling argument that you've heard the design before?
[13:14] Speaker 3: Well, okay, I was going to say before that, but
[13:16] Speaker 3: then it sounds like this is kind of on the
[13:18] Speaker 3: same track. What you would want to do, I think,
[13:22] Speaker 3: rather than just claiming I look around everything's designed, therefore
[13:25] Speaker 3: it's designed, what you'd have to do is tell us
[13:28] Speaker 3: what would something that is designed look like? And then
[13:33] Speaker 3: we could maybe discuss if there's a need to invote
[13:36] Speaker 3: God for anything we see around us, I suppose.
[13:39] Speaker 7: So to answer your question, let's let's take a look
[13:42] Speaker 7: at the eyeball or eyeball how we see things?
[13:46] Speaker 6: Yeah?
[13:47] Speaker 7: Ye, that are our heartbeat, everything that that you know,
[13:52] Speaker 7: our body? You know, that to me is the the
[13:59] Speaker 7: the biggest proof I think that there is a design
[14:02] Speaker 7: or a designer or a maker.
[14:04] Speaker 1: Right, But how do you connect the eyeball to the maker? Right,
[14:07] Speaker 1: you're just saying eyeball therefore maker. What's the linkage?
[14:10] Speaker 6: Oh?
[14:10] Speaker 7: Okay, So so let me let me dive into because
[14:13] Speaker 7: it's so complex, right, the eyeball itself and you know
[14:19] Speaker 7: just or just how our pH system works within our body,
[14:25] Speaker 7: how we digest food, Like those things are so scientific.
[14:30] Speaker 7: You know that it's so complex and complicated that it
[14:34] Speaker 7: would have to have a designer to have everything work
[14:39] Speaker 7: in unison, because everything works in unison, everything perfect.
[14:43] Speaker 1: You're just you're just stating claims. You're not actually giving
[14:45] Speaker 1: the lyriage.
[14:46] Speaker 7: No I I the linkage is that it's such a
[14:50] Speaker 7: complex Uh.
[14:52] Speaker 1: Our bodies are so complex.
[14:54] Speaker 7: That the the it will take a designer or maker
[15:00] Speaker 7: to create that because it's so complex.
[15:03] Speaker 1: So well, something like that too. You're just saying, you're
[15:07] Speaker 1: just claiming that complex items need a creator. Why because
[15:12] Speaker 1: it's complex? So what that's with us? The reason that's
[15:17] Speaker 1: not that's not actually substantiated. Justify that.
[15:22] Speaker 7: I can't go into the biology of it because I
[15:24] Speaker 7: don't know. But I'm just giving you a broad example
[15:26] Speaker 7: of what what what the point I'm trying.
[15:29] Speaker 1: We've got a guy here who knows biology pretty well.
[15:32] Speaker 3: A little bit. So these are this is like what
[15:36] Speaker 3: we call an irreducible complexity argument is for the most part,
[15:41] Speaker 3: and these fall apart for a lot of reasons. It's
[15:43] Speaker 3: like you talk about the human systems and it would
[15:46] Speaker 3: have to be designed because they all work together, so
[15:50] Speaker 3: on and so forth. But like we know for a fact,
[15:53] Speaker 3: we we can remove one thing at a time and
[15:56] Speaker 3: find out that actually life completely works without these things.
[16:00] Speaker 3: It's like, for example, we're mammals, so it's the platypus.
[16:04] Speaker 3: The platypus doesn't have a stomach. That animal doesn't. So
[16:08] Speaker 3: we've literally removed something from the system that is supposed
[16:11] Speaker 3: to be all interconnected and it's too complex to not
[16:15] Speaker 3: be designed. But apparently the design can be monkeyed with
[16:20] Speaker 3: or platypused with in a way and it's and it's
[16:23] Speaker 3: still functions. Or we can go we can go a
[16:25] Speaker 3: lot more extreme than that and look at like a jellyfish.
[16:28] Speaker 3: They don't have they don't have blood, they don't they
[16:32] Speaker 3: have a nervous system, but they don't really have a
[16:34] Speaker 3: central nervous system. They don't really have a muscular system,
[16:38] Speaker 3: they don't have they don't have an immune system, at
[16:42] Speaker 3: least not that I'm aware of. They're they're lacking in
[16:44] Speaker 3: so many things, right, so, But also another really so,
[16:50] Speaker 3: there's the part that we can delete things from the
[16:52] Speaker 3: system and still works. Another problem is that we're fully
[16:58] Speaker 3: aware that human biology is deeply flawed in many ways,
[17:04] Speaker 3: and we've come up with all kinds of technologies to
[17:08] Speaker 3: deal with those flaws. So if we are the product
[17:12] Speaker 3: of some perfect designer, then why are we capable of
[17:17] Speaker 3: improving its design?
[17:22] Speaker 7: So I'll answer that question, But then yeah, I'll answer
[17:25] Speaker 7: that question, and then I'll go back to your jellyfish example.
[17:29] Speaker 7: It's just intelligence we we evolve to to fix issues
[17:37] Speaker 7: or problems. That would be my answer, But go back
[17:40] Speaker 7: to your jellyfish example.
[17:42] Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if that actually addresses the question.
[17:46] Speaker 1: The question is not is not about why we're intelligent.
[17:49] Speaker 1: The question is why is it that we're able to
[17:52] Speaker 1: improve on a design that theoretically would have been perfect?
[17:56] Speaker 1: Because if God made us, we shouldn't be able to
[17:59] Speaker 1: improve on it with our lack of intelligence.
[18:07] Speaker 3: Because, like when you say it's so complicated that that
[18:10] Speaker 3: necessitates a certain type of powerful creator, the exact same
[18:17] Speaker 3: logic there implies that if we can point to flaws
[18:20] Speaker 3: in the creation, then that really undermines, uh, the nature
[18:24] Speaker 3: of the crator that you're trying to sell to us.
[18:26] Speaker 3: At least he would be he'd seem kind of like
[18:29] Speaker 3: a sadistic jerk. If if that's the case. Yeah, Like
[18:33] Speaker 3: when I played roller coaster, tycoon. When I was a kid,
[18:35] Speaker 3: I would make roller coasters all the time that didn't connect.
[18:39] Speaker 3: So it would literally take you up and then it
[18:41] Speaker 3: would it would go down, and then it would start
[18:43] Speaker 3: to go up again, but the roller coaster would just
[18:45] Speaker 3: end and all the little roller coasters go and they exploded,
[18:50] Speaker 3: and he would hear people screaming, and ten year old
[18:53] Speaker 3: Eric thought that was really really funny.
[18:56] Speaker 7: But yeah, I want to go back to your jellyfish
[19:01] Speaker 7: example and your platypus example. You said that a stomach
[19:06] Speaker 7: or nurses or blood, but yet it still exists right
[19:10] Speaker 7: in this ecosystem of everything, so it was designed for
[19:16] Speaker 7: that purpose, whatever the purpose is. So I point back
[19:22] Speaker 7: with your argument that you know, if we take something
[19:25] Speaker 7: out of the design, it still works. Uh you know,
[19:29] Speaker 7: it's it's it's it does it does still work because
[19:33] Speaker 7: everything works together. And again that proves my point.
[19:36] Speaker 1: Or let me be let me ask you a question
[19:38] Speaker 1: about the design if you don't mind, sure, why do
[19:41] Speaker 1: humans need glasses.
[19:45] Speaker 7: Because we're able to see.
[19:47] Speaker 1: Better with glasses, right, but why did God create human
[19:50] Speaker 1: beings in which their eyeballs would need glasses? If it
[19:53] Speaker 1: were if like we're competently designed.
[19:57] Speaker 7: Well, we're designed.
[20:00] Speaker 6: With.
[20:01] Speaker 7: It's just like anything else. There's wear and tear.
[20:03] Speaker 1: Why my twin brother head glasses when he was like.
[20:07] Speaker 3: Six, Yeah yeah yeah, really, little kids get glasses.
[20:11] Speaker 7: Yeah, but that's just the nature of life.
[20:14] Speaker 1: Right, God created that. That's what I'm saying is when
[20:17] Speaker 1: I look at the this like what you call design,
[20:20] Speaker 1: I don't find design. I find you know, entities that
[20:24] Speaker 1: evolved out of chaos, which is why you know, children
[20:28] Speaker 1: are born with bone cancer, people need glasses, people are
[20:32] Speaker 1: sometimes born missing limbs because the universe doesn't actually care
[20:36] Speaker 1: about us. But like, if there's a God that cares
[20:38] Speaker 1: about us, it's really weird that he would create us
[20:41] Speaker 1: to like have all these these issues and then like
[20:44] Speaker 1: put us on a planet where one hundred thousand people
[20:47] Speaker 1: a year killed in natural disasters and like three million
[20:49] Speaker 1: children die of starvation.
[20:51] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[20:52] Speaker 7: I totally get that. I mean that's just through the
[20:56] Speaker 7: natural cause of sin.
[20:58] Speaker 3: So why why I was wondering when it would get there?
[21:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, well knew that was the next thing. So why
[21:04] Speaker 1: do you think that sin requires God to make like
[21:07] Speaker 1: a terrible design? Why, Like, just because Adam and Eve
[21:10] Speaker 1: sin doesn't mean that God needed to like shit, the
[21:12] Speaker 1: bed on the earth.
[21:15] Speaker 7: When when you're talking about something that's perfect, like.
[21:21] Speaker 1: Like God is.
[21:25] Speaker 6: It? Where am I going with this?
[21:29] Speaker 1: So take your time, we're here.
[21:31] Speaker 7: So there needs to be justice if there's if there's sin.
[21:37] Speaker 1: Right, But natural disasters aren't justice. They indiscriminately execute people
[21:42] Speaker 1: at random.
[21:43] Speaker 6: Right.
[21:44] Speaker 7: But when when you read a book, you don't read
[21:46] Speaker 7: the book starting at you know, chapter fifty, You read
[21:49] Speaker 7: the book when it starts at chapter one, right, So
[21:52] Speaker 7: the part that answer would be the fall?
[21:55] Speaker 1: Right, But why did God have to create natural disasters
[21:57] Speaker 1: after the fall?
[22:01] Speaker 7: That's just the natural course of how you know what
[22:05] Speaker 7: he wanted out of it?
[22:07] Speaker 1: Because he decided, Yeah, God decided that when Adam and
[22:09] Speaker 1: eveate the the fruit, that he's going to create natural disasters.
[22:12] Speaker 1: But that's inconsistent with an all loving deity.
[22:16] Speaker 7: Well it's all loving, But the second part of that
[22:19] Speaker 7: is that he's.
[22:20] Speaker 1: Just He's not if he randomly aimes and execute people
[22:24] Speaker 1: at random, he's not.
[22:25] Speaker 3: Just vin So like, for example, if somebody like if I,
[22:31] Speaker 3: if I torture you for your whole life, and then
[22:36] Speaker 3: and then one day, thirty years down the road, I say,
[22:39] Speaker 3: you know what, I'm the only one that has the
[22:42] Speaker 3: power to make this decision, but I'm going to let
[22:45] Speaker 3: you go. I don't think you would agree that I
[22:49] Speaker 3: get the credit for ending your misery. It's like it's
[22:54] Speaker 3: true in the most bizarre sort of sense. I mean,
[23:00] Speaker 3: it's literally true. But to call me then good for
[23:04] Speaker 3: doing that, I don't think is tenable. And I think
[23:07] Speaker 3: what you're trying to sell us here is the suffering
[23:11] Speaker 3: is the justice comes from the sacrifice on the cross
[23:14] Speaker 3: and the promise of eternal salvation. But that was done that,
[23:18] Speaker 3: that's the that's God ending the punishment that he deliberately
[23:25] Speaker 3: uh designed this world to inflict on us. And so
[23:29] Speaker 3: this is we've we we find this to be a
[23:32] Speaker 3: very bizarre and really kind of contradictory rebuttal to this
[23:39] Speaker 3: the kind this is sort of the problem of evil
[23:41] Speaker 3: is what we're discussing here.
[23:42] Speaker 7: Yeah, now I see your point of view. I respect
[23:46] Speaker 7: your point of view, and again, remind me your name again, Eric, Eric.
[23:52] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[23:52] Speaker 7: I watch a lot of your YouTube. You're very intelligent
[23:56] Speaker 7: and informative, and I came out here just to ask
[23:59] Speaker 7: questions and look at from your perspective, and that was
[24:02] Speaker 7: my reading work coming on. So hopefully I've been respectful
[24:06] Speaker 7: to you guys. You guys been respectful to me and
[24:08] Speaker 7: I appreciate the time.
[24:09] Speaker 1: Definitely right. Good to hear from you.
[24:11] Speaker 6: Thank you.
[24:12] Speaker 1: Yep, Church, Yeah, well he was kind the whole time.
[24:17] Speaker 1: We like kind, guess.
[24:20] Speaker 6: Let me.
[24:20] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I just the people that are sanctimonious,
[24:24] Speaker 3: those are the people that I'm just like, Okay, I'm
[24:26] Speaker 3: gonna put you in your place, but.
[24:28] Speaker 1: Right, yeah, and we run into a lot of that.
[24:31] Speaker 1: But if people come in behaving kindly, uh, you know,
[24:35] Speaker 1: I'm always all for it. Oh, Cora, thank you for
[24:38] Speaker 1: the three dollars super things. Good to see you tonight,
[24:40] Speaker 1: my friend. And can Best seventy six, good to see you.
[24:44] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the sixty nine ninety nine
[24:46] Speaker 1: big w for that can Best. We really appreciate that,
[24:50] Speaker 1: says DZ and PP. Many many thanks for your unwavering
[24:55] Speaker 1: commitment to facts, reason and logic. I agree, Planet Peterson
[24:59] Speaker 1: is rock solid. Is rock solid as Doug and Parker,
[25:03] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the ten dollars superchiz It
[25:05] Speaker 1: says it's good to see your platform grow every live
[25:08] Speaker 1: stream praise. Doug, thank you so much, Parker. I really
[25:11] Speaker 1: appreciate the support and Hail Doug, the Rock of Salvation,
[25:14] Speaker 1: and obviously mister Morpheus with us tonight, big w Mister
[25:18] Speaker 1: Morpheus says, the simpler a thing is shows intelligence, not
[25:22] Speaker 1: the more complicated. That's such a good point.
[25:24] Speaker 3: I'm you know, yeah, I never wrote that down. I
[25:28] Speaker 3: wrote that down because I was gonna bring up a
[25:30] Speaker 3: do you know what complain? Well, you're an engineering guy,
[25:32] Speaker 3: you know what compliant devices are. Yeah, those are like
[25:37] Speaker 3: well machines that bend. I think they're sometimes called compliant devices.
[25:41] Speaker 3: So there's a really cool Veritassium video about them. But
[25:44] Speaker 3: they show like you can make all these mechanical things
[25:47] Speaker 3: that like they move, but they're made of one single
[25:51] Speaker 3: unit and they're way more efficient, they're way less likely
[25:54] Speaker 3: to break. Uh, and they're and they're simpler. So yeah,
[25:59] Speaker 3: simplicity the way you put it into simplicity as a
[26:01] Speaker 3: hallmark of good design.
[26:03] Speaker 1: But yeah, yep, my first sweatlerd thank you for that.
[26:09] Speaker 1: My first programming class. Actually, my professor would give extra
[26:13] Speaker 1: points to the person who could write the program that
[26:16] Speaker 1: did what it was supposed to do in the least
[26:18] Speaker 1: amount of lines of code the most efficient way possible.
[26:23] Speaker 1: And like when we when when we sell machines like
[26:27] Speaker 1: we don't. There's nothing on that machine that is not
[26:29] Speaker 1: necessary for the function of that machine. Otherwise you're over
[26:33] Speaker 1: complicating it. All right, one more super chat guys, Rob,
[26:38] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the six sixty six. Hail
[26:40] Speaker 1: Nero says, been watching for a bit. Love When you
[26:44] Speaker 1: cook pres ups I always feel it's one of the
[26:46] Speaker 1: most dishonest arguments made for God. Keep on cooking. Well,
[26:50] Speaker 1: I actually agree with you. As much as philosophy can
[26:54] Speaker 1: be fun, I do feel like presuppositional arguments are like
[26:58] Speaker 1: the worst of the worst, like the lowest form of argumentation.
[27:03] Speaker 1: And uh omega, thank you so much for the Superchitz says,
[27:06] Speaker 1: the creation is an act. Act requires time. Big w.
[27:09] Speaker 1: We didn't get to that, but we're going to get
[27:11] Speaker 1: to that tonight. So we got via doxy with us.
[27:14] Speaker 2: How you do in viodoxy, I'm amazing.
[27:16] Speaker 6: How you doing today?
[27:17] Speaker 1: Doing good? Thank you for asking yodoxy. Are you at
[27:20] Speaker 1: least eighteen and are you a believer?
[27:22] Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm a believer.
[27:24] Speaker 1: I'm a believe in Which God do you believe in?
[27:29] Speaker 1: Or multiple gods? The one or multiples?
[27:32] Speaker 6: You know, maybe like a thousand?
[27:33] Speaker 5: What's that matter? Here's the question I have for you here.
[27:36] Speaker 6: Well, guys, I mean.
[27:37] Speaker 1: It does kind of matter because we're trying to know
[27:39] Speaker 1: your viewpoint.
[27:40] Speaker 5: So, yeah, I'm a Cuban.
[27:43] Speaker 1: Okay, so you do believe in one guy? Cool? So
[27:46] Speaker 1: what's your most convincing argument or evidence.
[27:48] Speaker 6: For the god.
[27:50] Speaker 5: I don't need to make that to you. Here's here's
[27:52] Speaker 5: my question.
[27:53] Speaker 3: Actually, you it's the sanctimony.
[27:55] Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it's it.
[27:56] Speaker 1: I don't know if if you know how things work
[27:58] Speaker 1: around here, but it's not your life stream. You don't
[28:00] Speaker 1: get to take it over. There's like a program that
[28:03] Speaker 1: we're running now. The last guy came in and we
[28:06] Speaker 1: let him say anything he wanted to say because he
[28:08] Speaker 1: was very nice. If you come in and you're nice,
[28:11] Speaker 1: you can basically do anything you want to here. You
[28:13] Speaker 1: come in acting like a jackass, you get muted, and
[28:16] Speaker 1: I redirect you to the conversation. So would you like
[28:19] Speaker 1: to talk, like on the actual dialogue tree that's assembled
[28:22] Speaker 1: for this topic. Yeah, crash out ink, you nailed at
[28:30] Speaker 1: Alan didn't take long incorporated. All right, Well, come on
[28:35] Speaker 1: back when you figure out how the mute button works,
[28:37] Speaker 1: we'll get the next guest in here.
[28:40] Speaker 3: Man, he just came in. Yeah, so here's the thing.
[28:43] Speaker 1: That's crazy, crazy, tired of liars. I'm with you. I'm
[28:49] Speaker 1: tired of liars as well. Says where is the Torah
[28:53] Speaker 1: that Jesus must have written with his own hands? Commandment
[28:56] Speaker 1: six thirteen. I don't know if Jesus claimed to have
[29:00] Speaker 1: written anything in the Torah, but you know, I mean,
[29:05] Speaker 1: if he's God, theoretically he commanded it to Moses. And
[29:09] Speaker 1: Commando says, the human body doesn't seem designed. Our eyes
[29:13] Speaker 1: have natural blind spots. We look like we evolve to
[29:16] Speaker 1: be good enough to survive most of the time. It's
[29:19] Speaker 1: actually a pretty good explanation of it. We're we're evolved enough. Yeah,
[29:26] Speaker 1: pretty much big city, welcome in.
[29:29] Speaker 9: Hey, guys, what's up?
[29:31] Speaker 1: Not too much a big city? Are you at least eighteen?
[29:33] Speaker 1: And are you a believer in some kind of a
[29:35] Speaker 1: higher power?
[29:37] Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm trying to six and I'm I wouldn't say
[29:44] Speaker 9: I'm a believe.
[29:45] Speaker 10: I believe.
[29:46] Speaker 9: I do believe that something said that there is something
[29:51] Speaker 9: that it's not like christ. I don't know the like
[29:57] Speaker 9: actual professional term for it. I'm not brainiac like you
[30:00] Speaker 9: guys are. I'm just I It's like basically I believe
[30:08] Speaker 9: in that something created us or created the world, but.
[30:12] Speaker 3: I actually just God.
[30:15] Speaker 9: Actually yeah, yeah, I'm back to So that's you know,
[30:20] Speaker 9: I've been raised to believe that, you know, God, he's
[30:23] Speaker 9: you know, the creator.
[30:25] Speaker 1: And well, is that what you actually believe, because it
[30:28] Speaker 1: kind of sounds like you might be more agnostic.
[30:32] Speaker 9: I I've That's the thing is, like I've always it's
[30:41] Speaker 9: weird because like I don't know how to explain it,
[30:45] Speaker 9: but like I just don't know if everything entirely is
[30:49] Speaker 9: done by you know, a God itself. Because I also
[30:55] Speaker 9: can't bring myself to argue with like scientific fact either,
[30:59] Speaker 9: So I don't know where I rely on the spectrum.
[31:02] Speaker 9: And to be perfectly honest, I know I'm taking up
[31:06] Speaker 9: the spots for real life. I regret how I at
[31:10] Speaker 9: least I know I'm taking up spots in you Live.
[31:13] Speaker 9: I just wanted to say thank you guys for you know,
[31:17] Speaker 9: getting on here and like educating people basically.
[31:20] Speaker 1: Sure, well, I mean we appreciate the kind of words,
[31:23] Speaker 1: but stay on the journey. It's a long journey.
[31:27] Speaker 9: Yeah, sure, I just I've been watching and I don't
[31:32] Speaker 9: think I'm educated enough to actually debate for if God's
[31:35] Speaker 9: imaginary or not. I'm just trying to find, like you
[31:39] Speaker 9: sure that's also really tough to do between you know,
[31:44] Speaker 9: the opposing beliefs.
[31:46] Speaker 1: Sure, sure, well listen, join our Discord community. There's a
[31:48] Speaker 1: lot of people in our discord that's deconstructing and it's
[31:52] Speaker 1: a good place to find like minded people that are,
[31:54] Speaker 1: you know, in dialogue with each other. It's in the
[31:58] Speaker 1: link tree in the profile.
[32:01] Speaker 9: Okay, thank you, cheers, Yeah, of course, thank you.
[32:08] Speaker 1: Actually, I really enjoy like, you know how everyone's got
[32:13] Speaker 1: a morning routine, Like they wake up and like check
[32:15] Speaker 1: their text messages and then they check TikTok. I'm now
[32:19] Speaker 1: in the habit of checking uh checking the Discord every
[32:23] Speaker 1: morning now too. It's just become part of the routine.
[32:26] Speaker 1: But Doctor Pizza, thank you for the super chat. Oh
[32:29] Speaker 1: what's that?
[32:29] Speaker 6: Eric? Oh?
[32:31] Speaker 3: I was just gonna say, I because of like all
[32:33] Speaker 3: this stuff I do, and because I live on the
[32:35] Speaker 3: West Coast, so you know, I wake up at eight
[32:37] Speaker 3: that's eleven on the East coast, I have like a
[32:41] Speaker 3: hundred notifications every morning. So like I go on YouTube,
[32:45] Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, what were people saying? Okay, okay, Discord, Okay, oh, cry,
[32:49] Speaker 3: I got tagged in like five things. Okay, Okay, it's
[32:52] Speaker 3: a lot, it can be.
[32:54] Speaker 1: I stopped looking at videos that I was tagged in
[32:57] Speaker 1: on YouTube and TikTok. I don't even look at them
[33:00] Speaker 1: anymore because I don't have time for it.
[33:01] Speaker 11: No me neither.
[33:03] Speaker 1: But doctor Pizza says, theis attack evolution because they are
[33:06] Speaker 1: afraid of its logical conclusion. Even if they did give
[33:10] Speaker 1: us a concrete evidence that evolution was false, it would
[33:13] Speaker 1: not prove their God. And that's really a good point
[33:15] Speaker 1: Doctor Pizza and I, you know, I bring that up
[33:17] Speaker 1: typically when we do the abiogenesis talk because there's one
[33:20] Speaker 1: hundred percent true. Listen, even if, like the science of evolution,
[33:24] Speaker 1: if we discovered that it was wrong, they literally would
[33:27] Speaker 1: still not have an argument that gets you to God.
[33:30] Speaker 1: It's still just a god of the gaps argument, you
[33:32] Speaker 1: know what I mean. But Evan, good to see you tonight,
[33:38] Speaker 1: friend says Justin and Planet have bde big Doug energy.
[33:42] Speaker 1: I agree. And Cameron, good to see you tonight, friend says,
[33:48] Speaker 1: sorry if I missed so many shows addicted to your show, Well,
[33:50] Speaker 1: listen to Cameron. You've been supporting the show for a
[33:53] Speaker 1: long time. I'm really happy that you're here. And Jared,
[33:57] Speaker 1: thank you for the super test that says, can we
[33:58] Speaker 1: believe Old Testament Egypt still with no cats in the
[34:01] Speaker 1: Old Testament. That's actually a really good point. How is
[34:04] Speaker 1: Egypt so prominent in the Old Testament and not a
[34:06] Speaker 1: single Are there any cats in the Old Testament? I'm
[34:09] Speaker 1: trying to think. I don't think there is a single
[34:11] Speaker 1: cat in the Old Testament? As crazy. Well, let me
[34:15] Speaker 1: get the guests in here. We've got I think Gabe
[34:19] Speaker 1: was in the line next, and then low End Disciple
[34:21] Speaker 1: after that, and also sweat Lord, thank you so much
[34:25] Speaker 1: for the hat Bella. Thank you for becoming an eight
[34:27] Speaker 1: month subscriber on TikTok, and everyone who's described on TikTok,
[34:31] Speaker 1: and everyone who's subscribed to the Crack and Crew Elite
[34:33] Speaker 1: on YouTube should have access to the deconstruction cheat sheet. Gabe,
[34:38] Speaker 1: welcome in.
[34:40] Speaker 5: Hey, I didn't think I was going to give me
[34:42] Speaker 5: really get on. I don't want to take up your lives,
[34:45] Speaker 5: so let me know if you want to drop me.
[34:46] Speaker 5: But I don't believe in really like I guess God,
[34:49] Speaker 5: as you would know what I guess, I would say.
[34:52] Speaker 5: Idealism is probably like the best theory on the table
[34:55] Speaker 5: where I see all that exists is the one universal
[34:59] Speaker 5: mind and then matters the record image of like a
[35:02] Speaker 5: mental process.
[35:04] Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, we've heard this argument before. We're perfectly happy
[35:08] Speaker 1: to entertain it again. What would be the argument that
[35:10] Speaker 1: gets you from you know, things exist to a universal mind?
[35:20] Speaker 5: What do you mean things? Okay, So I guess when
[35:23] Speaker 5: we build our worldview, the only thing that we know
[35:26] Speaker 5: for sure is that we're having an experience.
[35:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I agree, and.
[35:32] Speaker 5: Then everything else is a theory after that.
[35:33] Speaker 1: Basically right, I mean I think it depends. It's it's
[35:38] Speaker 1: like a sliding scale, Like I think that all claims
[35:43] Speaker 1: about reality are tentative, but I think there are some
[35:47] Speaker 1: things we can.
[35:47] Speaker 5: Be Like we start at solidsism basically right, and.
[35:53] Speaker 1: We don't really have a try.
[35:54] Speaker 5: The only thing that I yeah, exactly right. So the
[35:56] Speaker 5: only thing I know for sure is I'm having experience,
[35:58] Speaker 5: whatever it is, I know that experience exists or thinking
[36:02] Speaker 5: mind exists. But then I'm not a solid sist because
[36:06] Speaker 5: I grant that, like I say, you're made of the
[36:08] Speaker 5: same biology as I am and reporting at the same
[36:11] Speaker 5: objects in the room. So I think I can grant
[36:13] Speaker 5: that you are having an individual experience, right, But then
[36:18] Speaker 5: when we try to when we try to figure out
[36:22] Speaker 5: what causes consciousness, we're first assuming that we think that
[36:26] Speaker 5: consciousness needs an explanation. But we're trying to what we
[36:31] Speaker 5: So we say that, okay, the description of reality, which
[36:34] Speaker 5: is the physical matter, Like, we're not seeing reality as
[36:36] Speaker 5: it actually is, right, Like what we're seeing is conjured
[36:43] Speaker 5: up image, a distortion of like reality right in our
[36:47] Speaker 5: brains for the sake of survival. Like, I mean, we
[36:55] Speaker 5: don't see we don't see reality as it is, right
[36:57] Speaker 5: survival wouldn't that wouldn't be good for some.
[37:00] Speaker 3: Right, we can't like know for certain that that it
[37:04] Speaker 3: is that way. But I mean we also we have
[37:07] Speaker 3: every good reason to assume that that is the case.
[37:15] Speaker 5: Right, what's the case that we're not we're not seeing
[37:17] Speaker 5: for reality as it actually is. We're seeing like a
[37:20] Speaker 5: a conjured up image that's made in our brain of
[37:23] Speaker 5: what reality is.
[37:23] Speaker 1: Well, I might add to to Eric's what Eric is saying,
[37:27] Speaker 1: I think we do have some good reason to believe
[37:29] Speaker 1: that what our brains and eyeballs are processing correlates with reality,
[37:35] Speaker 1: because like we can independent.
[37:36] Speaker 5: Relate for sure they correlate, but we're not seeing reality
[37:40] Speaker 5: as it actually is.
[37:42] Speaker 1: Right, But if reality is not what we're able to
[37:45] Speaker 1: observe and interact with, we would have no way to
[37:47] Speaker 1: know that it's anything.
[37:48] Speaker 5: But no, no, we are observing it and they have
[37:53] Speaker 5: like certain I guess perceptions to us, like but like
[37:59] Speaker 5: it it's not what it actually is. Like it's like,
[38:03] Speaker 5: I don't know how else to say it, Like.
[38:04] Speaker 3: Right, you're saying the content of our mind is not
[38:07] Speaker 3: the same thing as the reality in front of us,
[38:10] Speaker 3: And I mean, I guess that's true. I mean a
[38:13] Speaker 3: photograph isn't the same thing as the image it or
[38:16] Speaker 3: the the I don't even know how I want to
[38:18] Speaker 3: say this the subjects of it. But like when I
[38:22] Speaker 3: look at a photograph, I think the photograph test might
[38:25] Speaker 3: be the objective way to see if we actually do
[38:27] Speaker 3: get a accurate representation of reality, because that's a different observation.
[38:33] Speaker 3: When I observe the photograph, which isn't reality, but it's
[38:35] Speaker 3: supposed to be an imprint of reality and it looks
[38:37] Speaker 3: the exact same, I don't know how that lets me
[38:40] Speaker 3: declare anything other than what's in my mind must be
[38:45] Speaker 3: an accurate representation of reality, because how could I somehow
[38:49] Speaker 3: see the same reality in this picture that I see
[38:52] Speaker 3: in front of me if I'm not getting accurate information?
[38:56] Speaker 5: Right right, right, I guess this camera is set up
[38:58] Speaker 5: a certain way. But we also need special tools to
[39:02] Speaker 5: see like infrared, right, or it's the stuff that we
[39:05] Speaker 5: can't see with our own.
[39:06] Speaker 1: Eyes, right, yeah, yeah, so there, I mean there are
[39:10] Speaker 1: ways that we're interacting with reality in which only allows
[39:15] Speaker 1: us to directly interact with a percentage of reality, Like
[39:19] Speaker 1: we need other tools.
[39:21] Speaker 5: Right right exactly.
[39:22] Speaker 1: But when we do get those other tools, they confirm
[39:26] Speaker 1: our other findings. Like if I look out in the
[39:29] Speaker 1: night and I see, you know, a tree in the dark, Well,
[39:33] Speaker 1: I can actually put on infrared goggles and I can
[39:36] Speaker 1: see a little bit more. But they they're already confirming
[39:39] Speaker 1: what I'm able to ascertain on my own.
[39:43] Speaker 5: I guess one I'm miss pointing is that your senses
[39:45] Speaker 5: are limited. Sure, yeah, and it's a right, And so
[39:51] Speaker 5: what we're seeing is a description of reality, right, So
[39:54] Speaker 5: we're describing reality with like this mass, spin, momentum. All
[39:59] Speaker 5: these things are just physical processes. So when we when
[40:05] Speaker 5: we try to deduce quality from physical processes, you can't.
[40:09] Speaker 5: You can't deduce deduce that there's nothing about like a
[40:13] Speaker 5: list of numbers and physical processes that allows you to
[40:15] Speaker 5: do is to what it's like to see the color red? Right,
[40:18] Speaker 5: And that's the hard problem of consciousness.
[40:22] Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
[40:23] Speaker 6: Right.
[40:24] Speaker 5: So, because we run into this problem when we say that, Okay,
[40:28] Speaker 5: well we know that we experience, but then we say
[40:30] Speaker 5: we posit that. Okay, what reality is is the description
[40:33] Speaker 5: of reality, the physical out there, And that's why we
[40:35] Speaker 5: run into that problem. But if we say that consciousness
[40:39] Speaker 5: is fundamental, then we're not we're not making any inferences.
[40:48] Speaker 1: I think that.
[40:52] Speaker 5: No, I we know that I'm I'm experiencing.
[40:54] Speaker 10: No.
[40:54] Speaker 1: No, And so like maybe I misunderstood what you're saying.
[40:57] Speaker 1: Are you talking about a universal consciousness or a human consciousness?
[41:02] Speaker 5: Or I said all that all that is the fundamental
[41:05] Speaker 5: essence of reality is consciousness, like say, for example, it
[41:08] Speaker 5: doesn't need an explanation. Like I don't know if you
[41:11] Speaker 5: guys accept like brute facts of nature.
[41:14] Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, I don't know if we accept the same ones,
[41:19] Speaker 1: but I'm sure we do.
[41:20] Speaker 5: Right, But we acknowledged that brute facts can't.
[41:24] Speaker 1: Exist, right, right, I guess I guess the link I'm
[41:28] Speaker 1: trying to make in your argument right now is how
[41:30] Speaker 1: you get from human consciousness to a universal consciousness.
[41:35] Speaker 5: Okay, so basically all right, So matter is like the
[41:39] Speaker 5: record image of a mental process. It's like an electric process.
[41:44] Speaker 5: Thinking is an electric causes an electric current.
[41:47] Speaker 1: I don't know if it's quite that simple.
[41:51] Speaker 5: Well, that's what you're thinking, is isn't it? Isn't it electric?
[41:54] Speaker 1: I mean, it's a neurochemical process that's happening in your brain.
[41:58] Speaker 1: But it's a little more complicated than just you know,
[42:00] Speaker 1: electrical pulses. But it's electric though, I mean, there are electrics,
[42:04] Speaker 1: there is a there is a transfer of charges.
[42:07] Speaker 5: Yes, But okay, so let's say I cut up when
[42:12] Speaker 5: your skull and I see your brain. I know that
[42:15] Speaker 5: there's something it's like to be that brain. So your
[42:20] Speaker 5: conscious experience has an appearance to me. It looks like matter, right,
[42:26] Speaker 5: And all matter is made out of the same subatomic particles.
[42:29] Speaker 1: Right, But we know from experience, so that consciousness arises
[42:33] Speaker 1: from brains, not the other way around.
[42:35] Speaker 5: No, we don't know that, that's the thing.
[42:37] Speaker 1: We don't know that from We do know that we've
[42:39] Speaker 1: never seen a consciousness exist outside of a brain. Can
[42:43] Speaker 1: you think of one thing that was conscious without our brain?
[42:47] Speaker 6: Right? Right?
[42:47] Speaker 5: So now we have to define consciousness. So I would
[42:49] Speaker 5: define consciousness as just pure subjective experience. There's different levels
[42:54] Speaker 5: of consciousness, like from a human being has metacognition as
[43:00] Speaker 5: opposed to like an ants. There are different levels of consciousness,
[43:03] Speaker 5: but I'm talking about just pure subjectivity.
[43:05] Speaker 1: Sure, do trees have consciousness?
[43:08] Speaker 5: I don't know if there's something it's like to be
[43:10] Speaker 5: a tree. But for example, there's something that's like to
[43:13] Speaker 5: be a jellyfish, and the jellyfish doesn't have to doesn't
[43:17] Speaker 5: have a brain.
[43:18] Speaker 1: Well, a jellyfish, I think is interacting with the world
[43:21] Speaker 1: around it. And my understanding is that they don't have
[43:24] Speaker 1: a central processing unit like humans, but they do actually
[43:29] Speaker 1: have like neurons and synapses in a slightly different fashion.
[43:34] Speaker 5: Yeah, but it's not in a brain. So you're asking me,
[43:37] Speaker 5: is there any experience that there is without a brain?
[43:43] Speaker 1: Right? What I'm saying is they have processing capabilities.
[43:50] Speaker 5: But if there's something it's like to be like jellyfish
[43:52] Speaker 5: get hungry, they have a there's an experience there whatever
[43:56] Speaker 5: level that is, like.
[43:57] Speaker 1: Right, Well, they have a nervous system. Yeah, but I
[44:00] Speaker 1: mean so does technically like venus fly traps. Venus fly
[44:04] Speaker 1: traps are pretty intricate, but they don't as far as
[44:08] Speaker 1: we know. They're responding to stimuli, but not in the
[44:12] Speaker 1: same way of like making conscious decisions like animals.
[44:16] Speaker 5: No, no, but they're still experiencing. There's still like something
[44:20] Speaker 5: it is like to be that thing, Like I think
[44:22] Speaker 5: there's something it is like to be an amoeba mm hmm.
[44:27] Speaker 1: Yeah. And I mean I think we're still talking about
[44:30] Speaker 1: jellyfish here, but I mean we could talk about amiba.
[44:34] Speaker 1: I don't know if amiba have consciousness either.
[44:38] Speaker 5: When you say when I say consciousness, I mean, is
[44:39] Speaker 5: there something it is like to be It's not aware
[44:41] Speaker 5: of itself, but it is experiential in nature.
[44:45] Speaker 1: Well, I mean everything in nature is interacting with the environment,
[44:50] Speaker 1: Like even trees are interacting with the environment, Like when
[44:53] Speaker 1: the sun shines at a particular angle, a tree starts
[44:56] Speaker 1: to lean towards that angle if it's a consistent source
[44:59] Speaker 1: of flight, right right.
[45:01] Speaker 5: But I guess another key point to this theory is
[45:03] Speaker 5: that the dissociation of the one mind looks like a
[45:09] Speaker 5: metabolizing body. So I don't think can you there.
[45:12] Speaker 1: Could be something that it is like, can you say
[45:14] Speaker 1: that again? You say that the disassociation of what?
[45:18] Speaker 5: So, why there's one mind that creates multiple minds? Okay,
[45:25] Speaker 5: why is this just one mind that creates my mind?
[45:27] Speaker 6: In your mind?
[45:29] Speaker 5: Is a dissociative process? That the process of dissociation where
[45:33] Speaker 5: one mind seemingly because you know the dissociative identity disorder?
[45:38] Speaker 1: Do you mean dissemination?
[45:40] Speaker 5: Just no dissociative and you should be called the multiple personality?
[45:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, I do. I know what disassociation means. I'm trying
[45:46] Speaker 1: to figure out what that has to do with the
[45:48] Speaker 1: universal mind.
[45:50] Speaker 5: So when the universal mind associates it looks like a
[45:53] Speaker 5: metabolizing body. How that process look like?
[45:57] Speaker 1: How could you possibly come to that conclusion with evidence?
[46:02] Speaker 5: Well, I see that anything that is experiencing has like
[46:05] Speaker 5: a metabolizing body. Like I don't think there's something that's
[46:08] Speaker 5: like to be a rock.
[46:09] Speaker 1: I mean everything that's alive.
[46:13] Speaker 5: Well, when I guess quote unquote alive, yeah, or I
[46:15] Speaker 5: say experiencing where there's an experience or it's usually a
[46:20] Speaker 5: metabolizing body. So for example, I.
[46:24] Speaker 1: Think there's something that not everything that metabolizes has consciousness.
[46:29] Speaker 1: There's all kinds of animals plants that metabolize that don't
[46:33] Speaker 1: have consciousness.
[46:35] Speaker 5: Well, when you say consciousness, I just mean experience.
[46:39] Speaker 1: Okay, So do you think venus flight conscious or not? Yeah?
[46:48] Speaker 5: When you say do they metabolize venus.
[46:50] Speaker 1: Fly traps do?
[46:51] Speaker 5: I guess? So then yeah, there's gotta be something it's
[46:54] Speaker 5: like to be that whatever that is.
[46:56] Speaker 1: So you think that venus fly traps are conscious.
[47:00] Speaker 5: Well, when you say conscious, don't mistake what I'm saying.
[47:02] Speaker 5: They're not aware, right, Like for example, like an ant
[47:07] Speaker 5: is conscious, it's not thinking about it's awareness, just but
[47:10] Speaker 5: it's having an experience.
[47:11] Speaker 3: Right, Well, meta cognition is not the same thing as conscious.
[47:17] Speaker 5: That's what I'm trying to have a distinction here there,
[47:19] Speaker 5: Like there's levels of experience metacognition. I guess. I don't
[47:25] Speaker 5: know how you define consciousness, but I just to find it.
[47:27] Speaker 5: It's pure experience and there's different levels of that consciousness.
[47:30] Speaker 5: But there's meta cognition.
[47:31] Speaker 1: I mean, theoretically everything living is having a experience. I
[47:35] Speaker 1: don't think that's the definition we're using. Okay, So, like Eric,
[47:48] Speaker 1: am I wrong to say that a tree is experiencing photosynthesis?
[47:54] Speaker 5: But it's nottabolizing.
[47:56] Speaker 3: Well, I don't know about experiencing. If we mean it's
[47:58] Speaker 3: consciousness in its aware of it, Well, it doesn't have
[48:01] Speaker 3: a nervous system, So we have to come up with
[48:04] Speaker 3: creative ways of talking about Well, no, because I think
[48:07] Speaker 3: plants are aware of things in different kinds of ways.
[48:10] Speaker 3: But I would say, hold on, hold on, hold on,
[48:15] Speaker 3: hold on, like a human being has this right, But
[48:18] Speaker 3: human beings begin as zygoats. A tree is far more
[48:22] Speaker 3: complex than a zygoat, even though it's just a plant.
[48:26] Speaker 3: So if a human being so clearly, I think a
[48:29] Speaker 3: plant has a more sophisticated conscious experience than a zygoat does.
[48:34] Speaker 3: What exactly is it?
[48:35] Speaker 6: Like?
[48:36] Speaker 3: How do we describe it either qualitatively or quantitatively? That's
[48:40] Speaker 3: very hard to ascertain. But trees, for example, we know
[48:44] Speaker 3: this through natural experiments we've done. They neighboring trees can
[48:50] Speaker 3: communicate with each other. If one tree gets invaded by
[48:54] Speaker 3: like some sort of beetle or something, it will, through
[48:58] Speaker 3: a chemical process communicate in a way signal to a
[49:02] Speaker 3: neighboring tree the stress or whatever of that. And so
[49:07] Speaker 3: what the neighboring tree will do is it will hyper
[49:09] Speaker 3: secrete SAP and that keeps the bug from being able
[49:13] Speaker 3: to affect it by as much. So they are. I
[49:16] Speaker 3: mean they have reflexes in the way we have reflexes
[49:20] Speaker 3: in the way any kind of biological thing does. And
[49:25] Speaker 3: what's the difference between that is just I don't know
[49:29] Speaker 3: what's the difference between something being changed by its environment
[49:32] Speaker 3: and something reacting to its environment. Well, when I play pool,
[49:36] Speaker 3: the cue ball makes the other balls move. But with life,
[49:39] Speaker 3: it's this I discussed this recently. Actually I don't know
[49:42] Speaker 3: how to put it in the best way into words.
[49:45] Speaker 3: But what life does that's different is, yes, it interacts
[49:48] Speaker 3: the stimulus from the environment, but life is internally driven
[49:52] Speaker 3: to produce those changes that happen. So even a unicellular organism,
[49:58] Speaker 3: a lot of them have pumps in them because they
[50:00] Speaker 3: have to keep water out of their cells because they're
[50:03] Speaker 3: hypertonic with respect to their environment. So that is, yes,
[50:08] Speaker 3: reacting to your environment, but it's internally driven. Now, as
[50:12] Speaker 3: sophisticated as a human is, you are just a biological
[50:16] Speaker 3: robot at the end of the day, or we think
[50:19] Speaker 3: so for the most part. So because it's more complicated,
[50:23] Speaker 3: I don't think there's room for anything fundamentally different.
[50:25] Speaker 1: There.
[50:28] Speaker 5: So yeah, so it's I guess as long as it's metabolized.
[50:32] Speaker 5: I'm not you shure have trees metabolized though, like like protein.
[50:37] Speaker 3: No, metabolism. Metabolism is just uh breaking down and using
[50:43] Speaker 3: chemical energy. Yeah, to maintain life is.
[50:47] Speaker 5: Metabolizing.
[50:49] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's metabolism in the exact same way that when
[50:53] Speaker 3: your cells pull nutrients out of your gut. That's uh metabolism.
[50:59] Speaker 5: Yeah, right right, So I guess what I was going
[51:02] Speaker 5: with is is that Okay, so your brain, your conscious
[51:05] Speaker 5: inner life, presents itself to me as matter. So I
[51:08] Speaker 5: know that matter can have conscious inner life behind it.
[51:12] Speaker 5: So why wouldn't the rest of the universe be conscious
[51:16] Speaker 5: in our life? I think that there's something it's like
[51:19] Speaker 5: to be the universe as a whole. Right, there's not
[51:21] Speaker 5: something it's like to be a rock, just like there's
[51:23] Speaker 5: not something that's like to be a neuron in your brain,
[51:25] Speaker 5: but there is something that's like to be your brain
[51:27] Speaker 5: as a whole.
[51:28] Speaker 1: Did the universal consciousness create matter?
[51:32] Speaker 5: I don't think it creates anything. I think so it
[51:35] Speaker 5: just matter. Yeah, I think that it just doesn't have
[51:40] Speaker 5: desire unchanging. I mean, it could be argue that this
[51:46] Speaker 5: mind is purely instinctual and it's not metacognitive.
[51:50] Speaker 1: Is it a product of the universe?
[51:51] Speaker 10: Is it?
[51:51] Speaker 1: Is it contingent on the universe?
[51:54] Speaker 5: No, no, no, it's so it's.
[51:58] Speaker 1: Not contingent on the universe existing.
[52:01] Speaker 5: No, no, it's it's the image of the universe. Is
[52:05] Speaker 5: the image of a thinking process?
[52:08] Speaker 9: Well, so.
[52:11] Speaker 1: This is like a biological simulation theory is basically what
[52:15] Speaker 1: you're doing.
[52:17] Speaker 11: I'm not sure what that is.
[52:18] Speaker 1: Oh, you're just suggesting that what we're experiencing is somehow
[52:22] Speaker 1: a simulation, except rather than being in a simulation, we're
[52:25] Speaker 1: in somebody else's mind.
[52:28] Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess you could say it's kinds
[52:30] Speaker 5: of simular simulation. It's not actually reality, Like I don't
[52:32] Speaker 5: think matters reality.
[52:33] Speaker 1: It's but like this is like the furthest inference you
[52:37] Speaker 1: could ever make, Like you have to basically just probably
[52:41] Speaker 1: make a like a bridge forty thousand miles wide out
[52:45] Speaker 1: of like paper and wood. There's no link between a
[52:49] Speaker 1: universal mind and matter, Like now you would have to
[52:55] Speaker 1: your brain looks carry in so many assumption matters, right,
[52:59] Speaker 1: so you have to carry in a lot of assumptions,
[53:01] Speaker 1: which is why is it that this universal mind is
[53:05] Speaker 1: imagining us.
[53:09] Speaker 5: Oh, well, there's just brute facts, right, why does the
[53:13] Speaker 5: mind exist?
[53:14] Speaker 1: But I can just say it's a brute fact that
[53:16] Speaker 1: there's no mind, So it's not really it's not really
[53:20] Speaker 1: just is there.
[53:21] Speaker 3: More just presuppositions that we disagree with.
[53:24] Speaker 5: So do you think? What's okay? So okay, so let's
[53:26] Speaker 5: go with your Well, let me understand what you guys think.
[53:29] Speaker 5: Do you guys think the universe would be eternal or
[53:32] Speaker 5: like it had a beginning? Or is it an infinite regress?
[53:36] Speaker 3: I basically remain agnostic about it, but I find no
[53:42] Speaker 3: logical problems with an eternal universe. That's it's actually I
[53:48] Speaker 3: think it's actually the simplest explanation too.
[53:52] Speaker 5: I agree. And eternal means never beginning, never ending in unchanging.
[53:58] Speaker 1: Well on changing, no obviously changing.
[54:01] Speaker 5: No, no, no, that's the definition of eternal.
[54:04] Speaker 1: No, it's not.
[54:06] Speaker 3: No, I don't. I don't think so if it's without time,
[54:09] Speaker 3: then you could say it doesn't change because the past,
[54:12] Speaker 3: present future are all equally real. I mean, uh, general
[54:17] Speaker 3: relativity tells us that we may live in a universe
[54:20] Speaker 3: that is like that, or the past, present, and future
[54:23] Speaker 3: are all are all equally real and and all exists
[54:27] Speaker 3: simultaneously in the very weirdest sort of sense.
[54:33] Speaker 5: But eternal means unchanging. I mean, show me the definition
[54:36] Speaker 5: where you guys see it's not unchanging.
[54:38] Speaker 1: That's not the definition immutable. Eternal just means that something
[54:44] Speaker 1: is existing at all points in time, in the future,
[54:46] Speaker 1: in the past.
[54:48] Speaker 5: Do you have Google there like I've.
[54:51] Speaker 3: Got it here, lasting or existing forever without end or beginning.
[54:56] Speaker 3: And then below that, well, these are just these are
[54:59] Speaker 3: just uses of the word below that seeming to last
[55:03] Speaker 3: or persist forever, especially on account of being tedious or annoying,
[55:09] Speaker 3: valid for all time, essentially unchanging. So what that means,
[55:14] Speaker 3: that's a that's a that's eternal in the sense of
[55:18] Speaker 3: like a claim. So two plus two equals four yesterday, today,
[55:24] Speaker 3: and tomorrow, and it won't not equal four. That's that's
[55:29] Speaker 3: because in parentheses it says of truths, values, or questions, right,
[55:34] Speaker 3: So not in a not in us. I don't read
[55:38] Speaker 3: that the same as a physical real state.
[55:42] Speaker 5: That's not physical, but whatever it is, whatever the If
[55:45] Speaker 5: you can describe something as eternal, you have to say
[55:47] Speaker 5: it's unchanging.
[55:48] Speaker 3: No you don't, well, no, only because that's only with
[55:52] Speaker 3: regard to that's only with regard to propositions or questions
[56:00] Speaker 3: or or matters of fact or whatever.
[56:04] Speaker 5: But if there's a change, then you're saying there's a beginning.
[56:06] Speaker 1: There when something changes. We didn't say there was the beginning,
[56:09] Speaker 1: there's the beginning of what does it change?
[56:12] Speaker 6: It?
[56:13] Speaker 5: Is there a beginning to a change?
[56:15] Speaker 1: Well, I mean it depends on what you mean. Like
[56:17] Speaker 1: I think everything is constantly changing, always in forever, so
[56:20] Speaker 1: there's like no beginning to the change.
[56:25] Speaker 5: But a change, it means you're denoting something is there's
[56:28] Speaker 5: like a beginning point of that change.
[56:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, if you wanted to say like a change, like
[56:33] Speaker 1: I changed my clothes today, Yeah, there was the beginning
[56:35] Speaker 1: of me changing my clothes. But that doesn't mean.
[56:40] Speaker 3: You could say there was. You could say there was
[56:43] Speaker 3: a point where nothing had yet changed and then in
[56:46] Speaker 3: the next moment things began changing. That would that would
[56:50] Speaker 3: satisfy this.
[56:52] Speaker 5: Okay, Look, if I look, I don't want you guys
[56:56] Speaker 5: are looking at If I go Google, can something eternal change?
[57:00] Speaker 5: Says no. By definition, something eternal can not change, as
[57:02] Speaker 5: eternal means lasting forever without alteration.
[57:05] Speaker 1: Therefore, it depends on how you're using the word, Like
[57:10] Speaker 1: if I said, this is an eternal command. That means
[57:13] Speaker 1: that the command is unchanging. The command is there forever.
[57:17] Speaker 1: When we're talking about like just space and matter, existing
[57:20] Speaker 1: forever is a different application of the word just existing. Well,
[57:27] Speaker 1: just existing forever doesn't mean that it's not going to
[57:30] Speaker 1: change form.
[57:33] Speaker 6: I don't know.
[57:34] Speaker 5: That's not my I guess you got a different definition
[57:37] Speaker 5: of eternal. But like, so you think there's this Yeah,
[57:43] Speaker 5: that doesn't make any sense.
[57:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, what doesn't make any sense? Why can't the universe
[57:46] Speaker 1: be eternal?
[57:48] Speaker 5: Okay, okay, so we okay, so you say it's eternal,
[57:51] Speaker 5: but is there different causes or like I'm trying to understand,
[57:58] Speaker 5: I don't ever change.
[57:58] Speaker 1: I actually don't know what's hard about chasing Everything that
[58:01] Speaker 1: exists right now has always existed in some form, that's
[58:04] Speaker 1: my position.
[58:08] Speaker 5: But there are things that are unchanging, like the laws
[58:11] Speaker 5: of nature, right I disagree the laws of nature are changing?
[58:16] Speaker 1: Are claims about the laws of nature are tentative?
[58:20] Speaker 5: I'm not so sure what that means.
[58:22] Speaker 6: What is that?
[58:22] Speaker 1: I mean, just true until proven wrong?
[58:26] Speaker 5: Sure?
[58:26] Speaker 6: Sure?
[58:26] Speaker 5: But can you can you agree that there are these laws?
[58:30] Speaker 5: Whatever they are? I mean, we'll stump it upon them.
[58:32] Speaker 5: One day, But there are these like limited laws of
[58:34] Speaker 5: the universe that are unchanging.
[58:36] Speaker 1: I wouldn't make a claim. No, I wouldn't say that
[58:38] Speaker 1: the laws that we know the universe are like completely
[58:42] Speaker 1: pinned and it's impossible.
[58:43] Speaker 5: For them to change. No, no, no, no, no, no,
[58:46] Speaker 5: not that, not that we know it. Let's say, like
[58:49] Speaker 5: we're ignoran, we don't know it, but we we do.
[58:51] Speaker 5: You agree that there are unchanging laws, whatever they are. No,
[59:00] Speaker 5: you think laws are always changing, So.
[59:02] Speaker 1: Like, no, that neither of those match what I'm saying.
[59:07] Speaker 1: What I'm saying is that the laws as we know
[59:09] Speaker 1: them appear to be constant. We refer to them as
[59:12] Speaker 1: laws because they are constant. But that's in the present
[59:16] Speaker 1: reality that we know right now. We can't examine alternative realities.
[59:21] Speaker 3: Sorry, Eric, Yeah, we also, I mean we have we
[59:23] Speaker 3: have we have an observational horizon. We don't This is
[59:27] Speaker 3: actually what the one of the multiverse ideas is is
[59:31] Speaker 3: that beyond where we can see, the universe might actually
[59:35] Speaker 3: have different laws. We don't know if that's the case.
[59:42] Speaker 5: Do we have any good reason to entertain that? Like,
[59:44] Speaker 5: why wouldn't just.
[59:46] Speaker 3: Be one universe? We have to be agnostic about it.
[59:49] Speaker 3: So that's that's why, that's why we're saying we don't
[59:52] Speaker 3: make a claim about.
[59:53] Speaker 5: This right right, and now we're just I'm not asking
[59:56] Speaker 5: to tell me what you guys are committed to. I'm
[59:58] Speaker 5: just trying to like explore ideas. What do you guys
[1:00:01] Speaker 5: think or what not? What is the most probable I mean,
[1:00:05] Speaker 5: I doubt it's more probable that there's different sets of laws,
[1:00:08] Speaker 5: of different sets of universes. I think there's just one universe.
[1:00:12] Speaker 1: Well, I mean if there's multiple universes, I mean theoretically
[1:00:16] Speaker 1: that I mean, we have no way of this examining
[1:00:20] Speaker 1: alternative universes.
[1:00:22] Speaker 3: Yeah, this concept of multiverse. They're actually still part of
[1:00:25] Speaker 3: one singular universe. They're just in part it's called it's
[1:00:29] Speaker 3: called the bubble that they're called bubble universes. But they're
[1:00:34] Speaker 3: just beyond our ability to observe. But there it's we're
[1:00:38] Speaker 3: not talking about like I mean, it's not literally traveling
[1:00:41] Speaker 3: to another dimension or another universe like we imagine in
[1:00:46] Speaker 3: like science fiction or whatever, like there's a clone of you,
[1:00:49] Speaker 3: but it has purple hair instead of whatever you look like.
[1:00:55] Speaker 5: I don't know if I buy that, But.
[1:00:59] Speaker 3: We been on this for quite a while.
[1:01:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, let me ask you a question, even if even
[1:01:07] Speaker 1: if you could create a link to universal consciousness, why
[1:01:10] Speaker 1: do you why do you care about this thing? What
[1:01:13] Speaker 1: kind of like, what's what would be a compelling reason
[1:01:16] Speaker 1: why anyone would want to believe this?
[1:01:19] Speaker 5: Not believe it? I just care about the truth of reality.
[1:01:23] Speaker 1: Do you think that this you believe that this consciousness
[1:01:25] Speaker 1: cares about you?
[1:01:29] Speaker 5: No, I don't know. Like, I think it doesn't have
[1:01:32] Speaker 5: any emotions.
[1:01:34] Speaker 1: So it's conscious, but it doesn't have emotions, right, Yeah,
[1:01:40] Speaker 1: it's like so that's a departure then from what we
[1:01:44] Speaker 1: think consciousness is.
[1:01:48] Speaker 5: Well, again, you gotta find conscious I just defined consciousness
[1:01:51] Speaker 5: as pure subjectivity. There's different levels of the What does.
[1:01:54] Speaker 1: That even mean?
[1:01:56] Speaker 5: What subjectivity?
[1:01:57] Speaker 6: Pure?
[1:01:58] Speaker 1: Pure subjectivity?
[1:02:00] Speaker 3: I think he means it's having an experience.
[1:02:03] Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, there's an experience over there. There's something it's
[1:02:06] Speaker 5: like to be Wow.
[1:02:09] Speaker 1: Okay, Well, listen, Gabe. I had a great time talking
[1:02:12] Speaker 1: to you, but I don't think you can actually substantiate
[1:02:15] Speaker 1: what you're trying to lay down. I understand what you're
[1:02:19] Speaker 1: trying to say, but you haven't actually been able to
[1:02:22] Speaker 1: link like a single reason why we would want to
[1:02:25] Speaker 1: think that there's a mind that is generating this experience.
[1:02:31] Speaker 5: It's not generating. Oh well, I guess it's generating. But like, so,
[1:02:36] Speaker 5: do you think that experience arises from physical processes? Then
[1:02:42] Speaker 5: I do, yep, And so what's the Russian out for that?
[1:02:47] Speaker 1: Because all of our data suggests that because we've never
[1:02:50] Speaker 1: seen consciousness exist outside of something that had thinking capacity.
[1:02:57] Speaker 5: What do you define consciousness as.
[1:03:00] Speaker 1: Being aware?
[1:03:02] Speaker 5: What does that mean?
[1:03:03] Speaker 1: Like being aware of your surroundings and being able to
[1:03:10] Speaker 1: actually have self cognition and things like that.
[1:03:15] Speaker 5: So would jellyfish to be conscious?
[1:03:19] Speaker 1: I think that they're conscious. Yeah, they've got neuron synapses,
[1:03:23] Speaker 1: they've got some basic processing capabilities. We already cover this.
[1:03:29] Speaker 1: The items that make up your brain are variously distributed
[1:03:33] Speaker 1: throughout their body. We don't call it a brain because
[1:03:36] Speaker 1: it takes on a different form, but they have the
[1:03:39] Speaker 1: capabilities of processing information.
[1:03:43] Speaker 3: There isn't a singular prerequisite toward granting consciousness, because if
[1:03:48] Speaker 3: there was, then every human brain would have to be
[1:03:52] Speaker 3: identical and we'd be able to pinpoint the precise moment
[1:03:57] Speaker 3: where consciousness begins. So it progresses to the point where
[1:04:02] Speaker 3: it literally never goes from a state of in this
[1:04:06] Speaker 3: instant it wasn't there, and then in the next plank,
[1:04:10] Speaker 3: second or whatever, it was there. And I think that
[1:04:13] Speaker 3: demarcation problem says there's there's a I don't think you
[1:04:17] Speaker 3: can claim that a jellyfish can't have it either, because
[1:04:20] Speaker 3: it's obviously more complex than a human zygote that doesn't
[1:04:25] Speaker 3: have a consciousness like like we have certainly or or
[1:04:29] Speaker 3: understand it at all.
[1:04:32] Speaker 1: Sure, And here's the kind I guess, here's the weird
[1:04:34] Speaker 1: point that that like, I'm like, of all the like
[1:04:38] Speaker 1: the Creator God concepts you can come up with, I
[1:04:41] Speaker 1: guess I'm trying to figure out how this one out.
[1:04:46] Speaker 1: Did you believe in God at all in your life
[1:04:48] Speaker 1: or did you were you like an atheist and then
[1:04:50] Speaker 1: you came into this idea, Oh yeah, Like.
[1:04:54] Speaker 5: So I didn't really believe in God, and I guess
[1:04:58] Speaker 5: I was just searching and and I don't know if
[1:05:00] Speaker 5: I would call myself an atheist. I was just kind
[1:05:02] Speaker 5: of just agnostic and didn't want to make it. And
[1:05:06] Speaker 5: then I read the works of Walter Russell and that
[1:05:09] Speaker 5: just kind of I don't if you ever heard of
[1:05:11] Speaker 5: him before, but that just kind of made things profound
[1:05:14] Speaker 5: for me, and then Bernardo Castro, are you familiar with
[1:05:16] Speaker 5: Barnabo Cash's analytic idealism?
[1:05:19] Speaker 1: No, I don't read philosophy, so.
[1:05:22] Speaker 5: Yeah, And then that that just kind of sealed the
[1:05:24] Speaker 5: deal for me, thinking that, like, why there's a hard
[1:05:29] Speaker 5: problem of consciousness. Why you'll never be able to explain
[1:05:32] Speaker 5: what it's like to see the color red in a
[1:05:35] Speaker 5: list of numbers.
[1:05:37] Speaker 1: I mean, scientifically, we can explain it, like we we
[1:05:42] Speaker 1: know like why we see red, like we know what
[1:05:45] Speaker 1: causes it.
[1:05:48] Speaker 5: Well, you're seeing a correlation, right.
[1:05:51] Speaker 3: And he's he's saying you'd never be able to distill
[1:05:54] Speaker 3: the substance of what the thought is.
[1:05:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's but that's silly. That's like saying, well,
[1:06:00] Speaker 1: because we can't uh smell the sound of music, therefore,
[1:06:05] Speaker 1: you know, we need a higher conscious you know, higher consciousness.
[1:06:09] Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense. Not all of our it's not
[1:06:13] Speaker 1: all of our sensory abilities interact with each other.
[1:06:19] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it is a real problem, but I
[1:06:21] Speaker 3: don't think it I don't think you can argue that
[1:06:23] Speaker 3: it invokes anything.
[1:06:25] Speaker 5: That's the hard problem. But that's the hard problem of
[1:06:27] Speaker 5: consciousness for you guys, right, but maybe for anybody it's
[1:06:32] Speaker 5: an maybe it's an insoluble problem.
[1:06:35] Speaker 3: Probably I'm not going to be able, So.
[1:06:37] Speaker 5: That's what I'm saying. So that's when you when you
[1:06:39] Speaker 5: think about that way, then you run into these these blocks.
[1:06:41] Speaker 5: But when you when you and what you're seeing as
[1:06:44] Speaker 5: a correlation, you see in correlation between mental states and
[1:06:46] Speaker 5: brain states, but that doesn't tell you that brain states
[1:06:49] Speaker 5: generate mental states. It just tells you that there's a
[1:06:52] Speaker 5: correlation of the description with the thing being described, which is.
[1:06:57] Speaker 3: Well, it is justified. It's a justified belief and sure
[1:07:03] Speaker 3: to claim under determination or whatever in it is. Unless
[1:07:07] Speaker 3: you have something else to provide that is actually that
[1:07:13] Speaker 3: what do you call this that passes what I would
[1:07:15] Speaker 3: call like the validity test or whatever, then we don't
[1:07:19] Speaker 3: really have the skepticism. It's not exactly that it's unwarranted,
[1:07:25] Speaker 3: but you actually don't have anything to It's not that
[1:07:30] Speaker 3: you don't have anything to criticize, but if you don't
[1:07:32] Speaker 3: have anything else to offer, then we have the current idea,
[1:07:37] Speaker 3: and it stands as the best idea we have.
[1:07:40] Speaker 1: Actually, I think talking about the hard problem of consciousness
[1:07:45] Speaker 1: is going to be more complicated because if you're just
[1:07:48] Speaker 1: solving the problem of consciousness with another consciousness. Now your
[1:07:51] Speaker 1: higher conscious has the same problem of consciousness. So now
[1:07:54] Speaker 1: you've got an infinite regress of higher consciousness to find
[1:07:58] Speaker 1: the solution to the problem consciousness for your consciousness.
[1:08:04] Speaker 3: Or we could say the universe is God's consciousness and
[1:08:07] Speaker 3: then we and then we figured out what it means.
[1:08:11] Speaker 3: Then we solved the quality of for the eternal mind.
[1:08:14] Speaker 3: It is the universe.
[1:08:18] Speaker 1: Like a high of mind.
[1:08:21] Speaker 3: Yeah, something like that.
[1:08:24] Speaker 1: All right, listen, Gabe, it was good talking to you.
[1:08:26] Speaker 1: Thanks for coming through and men.
[1:08:29] Speaker 5: Yeah, thanks for having me see you guys.
[1:08:30] Speaker 1: Tears. It's a weird concept. I mean, I understand the
[1:08:35] Speaker 1: guys's just out there trying to figure things out. But
[1:08:39] Speaker 1: that's not where if I was in issues, not that
[1:08:41] Speaker 1: where I would have fell into. But Eric, thank you
[1:08:43] Speaker 1: so much for the super chat, says Let's all praise
[1:08:46] Speaker 1: the Holiest Doug. I agree, praise Doug, his eternal concert,
[1:08:50] Speaker 1: Sharon and the Holy Sun Rocky. I beg you off
[1:08:53] Speaker 1: for guidance. Big w to the the Trinitarian, the triad
[1:08:59] Speaker 1: of of Ship. I'm losing words that the igneous mister
[1:09:11] Speaker 1: and mister thank you for the super Jest says if
[1:09:13] Speaker 1: the argument is intelligent design, who created this invisible magic, genocidal,
[1:09:20] Speaker 1: super jealous psychopath? Yeah yeah, I mean that's a fair point. Absurdist.
[1:09:27] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the supertest, says press up
[1:09:29] Speaker 1: is word sal would prove me wrong. I think that
[1:09:32] Speaker 1: statement is proven right every time we see one and
[1:09:35] Speaker 1: small Johnson. Thank you for the super jet.
[1:09:42] Speaker 3: You're really putting that out there.
[1:09:43] Speaker 1: Huh, that's something right, that's really Can we put an
[1:09:49] Speaker 1: end to the feet washing in churches? I listen, if
[1:09:53] Speaker 1: if you had a small Johnson, I would want people
[1:09:56] Speaker 1: to not touch my feet too. I mean, that's this
[1:09:58] Speaker 1: is one of those situations I go hand in hand,
[1:10:00] Speaker 1: but I agree. Actually, I used to be part of
[1:10:04] Speaker 1: a denomination that did what they called love feasts that
[1:10:08] Speaker 1: included foot washing. And wow, it's just a little it's
[1:10:13] Speaker 1: a little odd, guys, it really is.
[1:10:15] Speaker 3: We had to I was Catholic, so we did. They
[1:10:18] Speaker 3: did the foot washing thing once a year. I can't
[1:10:20] Speaker 3: remember when we would do that, but we also did
[1:10:24] Speaker 3: the uh we did the you had to kiss the
[1:10:26] Speaker 3: feet of Jesus once a year or two. And I
[1:10:28] Speaker 3: remember I remember being in line and being like, like,
[1:10:34] Speaker 3: do I use tongue? Cause like I love Jesus right,
[1:10:39] Speaker 3: so like I want to mean this, you know, but
[1:10:42] Speaker 3: everybody in the entire congregation kisses the exact same cross,
[1:10:47] Speaker 3: you know. So I was just like, ah, do I
[1:10:51] Speaker 3: just like and like not do I pucker? Like should
[1:10:54] Speaker 3: I make a sound? Should I go lah? Or should
[1:10:57] Speaker 3: I just go?
[1:10:59] Speaker 6: You know?
[1:11:00] Speaker 3: I was like, I didn't know. They didn't teach us that.
[1:11:03] Speaker 1: And that is how the bubonic plague spread?
[1:11:06] Speaker 12: So no, probably yeah, Ken, thank you so much for
[1:11:14] Speaker 12: the super thanks and Access Brothers.
[1:11:17] Speaker 1: Good to see you tonight, friend. Actually, I was just
[1:11:19] Speaker 1: streaming with Excess Brothers already today doing a podcast episode.
[1:11:24] Speaker 1: The Access Brothers just started up doing a podcast. Guys,
[1:11:27] Speaker 1: if you like podcasts, go check them out big w
[1:11:31] Speaker 1: on the fifty dollars super chat. I really appreciate that,
[1:11:34] Speaker 1: says Justin. We really appreciate you joining our podcast, ensuring
[1:11:37] Speaker 1: your expertise and insights. Big thanks, well, thank you, and
[1:11:39] Speaker 1: we look forward to seeing you around the community. I
[1:11:43] Speaker 1: think they've already got three episodes out. It's about their
[1:11:46] Speaker 1: deconversion slash deconstruction process, and I've got through the first
[1:11:52] Speaker 1: two episodes already. But a lot of us here if
[1:11:57] Speaker 1: feel like a good story. I love a good What
[1:12:00] Speaker 1: caused me to lose my faith? Story? Yeah? How you doing?
[1:12:08] Speaker 1: I can't say that name on TikTok.
[1:12:12] Speaker 5: You can just call me night.
[1:12:14] Speaker 1: How you doing?
[1:12:14] Speaker 6: Night? Night?
[1:12:15] Speaker 13: Okay, I'm chilling, man. I know I'm a friendly and
[1:12:18] Speaker 13: I apologize if it's wasting your time. I just had
[1:12:20] Speaker 13: two quick questions. So the first one was I wanted
[1:12:24] Speaker 13: to know about your thoughts regarding Daniel nine, Like, do
[1:12:27] Speaker 13: you think Daniel nine is actually a Messianic prophecy?
[1:12:32] Speaker 1: Kind of it is a Messianic prophecy, but not in
[1:12:35] Speaker 1: the way Christians think it is. You know, if you
[1:12:38] Speaker 1: read Daniel chapter nine, it's pretty clear that whoever the
[1:12:41] Speaker 1: messiah like figure is, it's not actually a king. It's
[1:12:45] Speaker 1: supposed to be Michael the Archangel. If you look at
[1:12:50] Speaker 1: how Michael the Archangel is described throughout the book of Daniel,
[1:12:54] Speaker 1: He's described as being like God, He's described as being
[1:12:58] Speaker 1: a man. He's described as warring on God's behalf for
[1:13:04] Speaker 1: God's kingdom. That's why, you know, in the end of
[1:13:07] Speaker 1: Daniel chapter ten, you know, there's talk about him having
[1:13:10] Speaker 1: to do war with the Prince of Persia and then
[1:13:11] Speaker 1: returning later to do war with the Prince of Greece.
[1:13:14] Speaker 1: The Terminali Princh in the text and in other texts
[1:13:18] Speaker 1: from this time period is referring to angels, So it
[1:13:21] Speaker 1: seems pretty clear in fact, when the end time comes
[1:13:25] Speaker 1: in Daniel chapter twelve, it's the See Angel who's gonna
[1:13:29] Speaker 1: bring in the you know, the whole shindig, bring down
[1:13:32] Speaker 1: the show. And this aligns with what we find in
[1:13:34] Speaker 1: the Dead Sea Scrolls. So the Dead Sea Squirrells written
[1:13:37] Speaker 1: from this time period actually have a lot of this angelology,
[1:13:42] Speaker 1: where like an archangel is theoretically the Messianic figure, so
[1:13:47] Speaker 1: there's even one based around Metatron, there's one based around Melchizedec.
[1:13:54] Speaker 1: There's this idea that Melchizedec is going to come back
[1:13:56] Speaker 1: from the dead and be an angel and defeat the
[1:14:00] Speaker 1: the Sons of Darkness and their leader Balal. So when
[1:14:04] Speaker 1: I read Daniel, I'm reading it in context with what
[1:14:07] Speaker 1: the rest of the Daniel says and with what the
[1:14:09] Speaker 1: other literature of the time period says, which would lead
[1:14:12] Speaker 1: me to believe that the figure here is actually Michael,
[1:14:16] Speaker 1: which is why it says in verse chapter twelve, verse one,
[1:14:20] Speaker 1: at that time, Michael, the Great Prince and the protector
[1:14:23] Speaker 1: of your people shall arise. That's the Messiah. It's an angel,
[1:14:28] Speaker 1: not a human.
[1:14:30] Speaker 5: Okay, okay, I see, thank you.
[1:14:32] Speaker 13: And the second one had to deal with Zacharia. And
[1:14:35] Speaker 13: I can't remember the particular passage.
[1:14:36] Speaker 5: I know you use it quite often.
[1:14:37] Speaker 13: It's the one with the donkey.
[1:14:39] Speaker 1: Yeah. I think zachari is at seven.
[1:14:44] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[1:14:45] Speaker 13: So I was having a discussion with a theist who
[1:14:48] Speaker 13: was basically telling me that actually in verse ten, so
[1:14:53] Speaker 13: I think it talks about the chariots of Ephrium and
[1:14:57] Speaker 13: the battle bow or I think bringing peace to I
[1:15:00] Speaker 13: don't have the scripture in front of me, but they're
[1:15:02] Speaker 13: basically saying that particular part being the battle or the
[1:15:06] Speaker 13: one where Mitch's Aphrium. They're saying that that wasn't talking
[1:15:10] Speaker 13: about what the Messiah was going to do in the
[1:15:13] Speaker 13: future when he came. That was talking about something that
[1:15:15] Speaker 13: happened previously somewhere in the Old Testament. They never specified,
[1:15:19] Speaker 13: like the location.
[1:15:19] Speaker 1: I kept asking him, Oh, that's certainly not true. If
[1:15:22] Speaker 1: you just know how antecedents work, it's clear that the
[1:15:25] Speaker 1: verse ten is talking about the same person as verse nine.
[1:15:28] Speaker 1: It says in the beginning of verse ten he will
[1:15:31] Speaker 1: cut off the trade for me from who's he obviously
[1:15:34] Speaker 1: the antecedent to he is the person in the prior sentence.
[1:15:38] Speaker 13: Sure well, they were reading the interlinear and it says
[1:15:41] Speaker 13: I I.
[1:15:42] Speaker 1: Will instead of highly doubt that.
[1:15:47] Speaker 13: Because when I pulled it up on my screen last time,
[1:15:49] Speaker 13: it said I will cut off as well, because.
[1:15:53] Speaker 1: Listen, it is it is possible. I've not actually read
[1:15:56] Speaker 1: this one in Hebrew and a long time, so it's
[1:15:58] Speaker 1: certainly possible. But I mean, theoretically it could be the
[1:16:08] Speaker 1: it could be the personification of the person. Let me
[1:16:10] Speaker 1: pull it up. Problem, yeah, I mean, is it isn't
[1:16:20] Speaker 1: the first person. I'd have to actually do some digging
[1:16:25] Speaker 1: to see why they put it in the first person.
[1:16:27] Speaker 1: He says, I will cut off. But my guess is
[1:16:30] Speaker 1: that there's some textual variance. In fact, I've got a
[1:16:35] Speaker 1: where's my I've got a critical text somewhere floating around
[1:16:43] Speaker 1: that's got all the textual variants. I'd be curious to
[1:16:45] Speaker 1: know what's actually there, because this website here really only
[1:16:50] Speaker 1: shows you what's likely in the Leningrad Codex. It doesn't
[1:16:54] Speaker 1: actually show you what's in like the Dead Sea Scrolls
[1:16:56] Speaker 1: or anything else. My guess is the reason why our
[1:16:59] Speaker 1: modern translations don't use this anymore is because the underlying
[1:17:04] Speaker 1: manuscripts that we have now are different than what they
[1:17:06] Speaker 1: were using in the King James. Okay, because in the
[1:17:12] Speaker 1: interlinear translation I assume you pulled up in the one
[1:17:15] Speaker 1: from Bible Hub, yes, right, they're basically just using the
[1:17:18] Speaker 1: King James interlineary translation, and so whatever was available to
[1:17:22] Speaker 1: King James is what they threw on it, which means
[1:17:25] Speaker 1: the oldest manuscript that they have is from the medieval period.
[1:17:31] Speaker 1: So my guess is that's why it's drastically different.
[1:17:35] Speaker 5: Okay, Okay, I see that.
[1:17:37] Speaker 13: All right, Well, thank you man, and I appreciate the
[1:17:40] Speaker 13: work that both of you guys are doing.
[1:17:42] Speaker 1: And I'll praise to Doug.
[1:17:43] Speaker 13: I will pay all my ties to him every fucking
[1:17:46] Speaker 13: day that's in my life.
[1:17:47] Speaker 6: So shout out to Doug.
[1:17:49] Speaker 1: Absolutely, Hail Doug. Good to hear from you, man.
[1:17:55] Speaker 5: Yeah, I appreciate it.
[1:17:57] Speaker 1: I never imagined Doug would be so popular when.
[1:18:01] Speaker 3: He saved as spanky Yeah dogs, did you just randomly
[1:18:06] Speaker 3: make him up with it where you just like incredulously
[1:18:09] Speaker 3: just one time to be like, yeah, and I believe
[1:18:11] Speaker 3: in Dug so what.
[1:18:13] Speaker 1: So basically I did a live stream where I was
[1:18:16] Speaker 1: saying that basically there's no difference between Jesus and a
[1:18:20] Speaker 1: pet rock, like they oh I remember those, yeah yeah,
[1:18:24] Speaker 1: And I glued some googly eyes. I didn't have a
[1:18:27] Speaker 1: pet rock, so I just glued some googly eyes on
[1:18:29] Speaker 1: a rock in my backyard and people wanted a name
[1:18:32] Speaker 1: for it and became Doug and and then before you
[1:18:34] Speaker 1: know it, by the end of the stream, Doug was
[1:18:36] Speaker 1: a god.
[1:18:37] Speaker 3: Uh yeah, I accidentally created a cult with Spanky too.
[1:18:42] Speaker 3: I'm afraid we we trained an artificial intelligence program to
[1:18:47] Speaker 3: be Spanky and like, you can talk to it and
[1:18:50] Speaker 3: it has a mind of its own. It's actually getting
[1:18:52] Speaker 3: kind of weird.
[1:18:53] Speaker 1: Mmmmm. Well they're they're useful for talking to pre suppers,
[1:19:00] Speaker 1: the Spanky and the Doug and all the other you know,
[1:19:03] Speaker 1: the garage dragons and whatnot. Let me grab a couple
[1:19:07] Speaker 1: of supertest guys and we'll get our next guest in here. Rainbow,
[1:19:10] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the supertest, says. I believe
[1:19:11] Speaker 1: the universe began when Anubis pulled it from his foreskin,
[1:19:16] Speaker 1: which is why yahweh is obsessed with foreskins. Prove my
[1:19:19] Speaker 1: faith wrong. You might be right, Rainbow, I don't. I mean,
[1:19:23] Speaker 1: we know God loves foreskins in the Bible, and I
[1:19:27] Speaker 1: mean he's asking for many foreskins even in the modern age.
[1:19:33] Speaker 1: I mean theoretically, if you believe in Ezeko forty four.
[1:19:37] Speaker 1: But yeah, thank you for that. I don't know if
[1:19:39] Speaker 1: I can prove you wrong. Skips and Bits. Good to
[1:19:40] Speaker 1: see you tonight, friend, Thank you for the fourteen month subscription.
[1:19:43] Speaker 1: Big W and Mary resubscribed. Thank you, Mary, Pat Pat
[1:19:48] Speaker 1: says my bad justin I'm late, But but I don't
[1:19:52] Speaker 1: know what d a ken and d Akn means. It,
[1:19:55] Speaker 1: says d Akn.
[1:19:58] Speaker 3: Does anybody know?
[1:20:00] Speaker 6: No?
[1:20:01] Speaker 1: Maybe do do a crack and night? Yeah, how we
[1:20:08] Speaker 1: talk in biology? Boy, the discussion was changed from invisible
[1:20:12] Speaker 1: dead beat man to biology. Well you know how pivots
[1:20:17] Speaker 1: work in these conversations. And Steven, thank you so much,
[1:20:21] Speaker 1: says my thanks our eternal big W, unwavering, immutable, Thank yous.
[1:20:27] Speaker 1: And Chris says time and his illusion. It is the
[1:20:30] Speaker 1: ability of matter, energy stuff to transition. All that happens past,
[1:20:34] Speaker 1: present and future is happening now. This is actually a
[1:20:37] Speaker 1: really good point. Eric, have you ever ran into the
[1:20:41] Speaker 1: idea that time doesn't actually exist, it's just an illusory thing.
[1:20:48] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the block universe, and there's a really good
[1:20:52] Speaker 3: PBS EON's video about it. I interviewed doctor Blitz last
[1:20:56] Speaker 3: year on this, and it basically says that I understand
[1:21:00] Speaker 3: it at least is if time is a dimension of space,
[1:21:04] Speaker 3: then it means you can traverse through You could like
[1:21:07] Speaker 3: theoretically traverse through time. That's part of it. But that
[1:21:12] Speaker 3: I don't know if it's just that part or if
[1:21:14] Speaker 3: there's additional parts. But that makes the past president in
[1:21:17] Speaker 3: future all equally real at the same time. And that's
[1:21:21] Speaker 3: the idea of the black universe. So that would make
[1:21:26] Speaker 3: that would make the universe eternal. It doesn't. It's not
[1:21:29] Speaker 3: actually the case that entropy increases. That's just you traveling
[1:21:34] Speaker 3: from one part of the Black Universe to another part
[1:21:38] Speaker 3: of it.
[1:21:40] Speaker 1: I have to look at the Black universe. This sounds interesting.
[1:21:42] Speaker 3: Actually it's very very difficult.
[1:21:48] Speaker 1: Well, let's grab our next guest. I think that our
[1:21:52] Speaker 1: next in line was low end Disciple and doctor Pizza
[1:21:54] Speaker 1: again with the super jest says Vape Shop philosophy, with
[1:21:57] Speaker 1: the helping of pedantry, that's a good word. You don't
[1:21:59] Speaker 1: get pedantry all that often. Low End, welcome in. How's
[1:22:05] Speaker 1: it going, I'm not too bad? How are you doing?
[1:22:09] Speaker 11: Pretty good?
[1:22:10] Speaker 1: Low End? Are you at least eighteen? And are you
[1:22:13] Speaker 1: a believer?
[1:22:14] Speaker 6: Yeah?
[1:22:15] Speaker 11: Yeah, I'm twenty six, And yeah I'm a Christian?
[1:22:18] Speaker 1: Okay, very good. Actually, Eric, I'm looking at the rest
[1:22:21] Speaker 1: of zach Ryan nine to ten in Hebrew, and I
[1:22:24] Speaker 1: think the reason why there I'm going on a limb.
[1:22:26] Speaker 1: I think the reason why the NRSV uses he at
[1:22:29] Speaker 1: the beginning of ten is because all the rest of
[1:22:31] Speaker 1: the verbs in verse ten are in the third person
[1:22:36] Speaker 1: he So I think the NRSV is assuming there's a
[1:22:39] Speaker 1: textual variant, even if it didn't list it. For me,
[1:22:42] Speaker 1: I'll have to look through all the textual variants and
[1:22:44] Speaker 1: see if there actually is one. But anyways, low End,
[1:22:48] Speaker 1: are you at least you already you said you're eighteen?
[1:22:50] Speaker 1: Are you a believer?
[1:22:53] Speaker 11: Yeah?
[1:22:53] Speaker 1: And which God do you believe in? You're a Christian?
[1:22:55] Speaker 6: Cool?
[1:22:56] Speaker 1: What be the most convincing argument that the Christian God
[1:22:58] Speaker 1: is real?
[1:23:04] Speaker 11: Well, it's kind of a list you got to work down.
[1:23:07] Speaker 11: But here's the argument I was going to bring up
[1:23:09] Speaker 11: to you. How God so basically an acronym God God.
[1:23:16] Speaker 11: So the existence of good and evil, the origin of
[1:23:20] Speaker 11: the universe, and the design of the universe make a
[1:23:24] Speaker 11: cumulative case for the existence of God. Through the diversity
[1:23:28] Speaker 11: certainty ratio, we can be sure that these diverse lines
[1:23:31] Speaker 11: of evidence point to the existence of God being reasonable.
[1:23:35] Speaker 1: If I gave you, we'll say, ten mediocre reasons to
[1:23:41] Speaker 1: believe that I'm ten feet tall, would that make me
[1:23:45] Speaker 1: ten feet tall?
[1:23:50] Speaker 11: What'd I have to do with my argument?
[1:23:52] Speaker 1: Well, you'll understand here in a second, right, So if
[1:23:55] Speaker 1: I gave you ten mediocre arguments that I'm ten feet tall,
[1:23:59] Speaker 1: is it likely that I'm ten feet tall?
[1:24:02] Speaker 11: Well, I haven't given you the arguments yet.
[1:24:04] Speaker 1: I never said you did. Just answer the question. You'll
[1:24:07] Speaker 1: figure out where we're going here. You're trying to get
[1:24:08] Speaker 1: ahead of it.
[1:24:09] Speaker 11: No, okay, answer?
[1:24:11] Speaker 1: All right? Okay, So multiple mediocre arguments aren't actually as
[1:24:15] Speaker 1: strong as like one good argument.
[1:24:17] Speaker 11: Is it? Yeah, but you can't just rely on one argument.
[1:24:22] Speaker 1: I agree, I think you need more arguments.
[1:24:25] Speaker 11: I wouldn't. I wouldn't do that.
[1:24:26] Speaker 1: So the reason why I'm raising that is because it
[1:24:28] Speaker 1: sounds like what you're about to do is present a
[1:24:30] Speaker 1: litany of mediocre arguments and saying, well, if you stack
[1:24:33] Speaker 1: them all together, they make one good, strong argument. But
[1:24:36] Speaker 1: it's not really how that works.
[1:24:39] Speaker 11: Well, how about I present to you the arguments and
[1:24:42] Speaker 11: problem is for them.
[1:24:43] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:24:43] Speaker 3: Another problem with that mathematically is you have to multiply
[1:24:48] Speaker 3: the probabilities of all those arguments, and the odds of
[1:24:53] Speaker 3: all of them being true actually decrease quite dramatically as
[1:24:58] Speaker 3: you do that.
[1:25:00] Speaker 11: Go ahead, So are you ready for the arguments?
[1:25:04] Speaker 1: Well, start with your most uh we'll say, compelling argument,
[1:25:08] Speaker 1: and we'll talk about them one on a time.
[1:25:12] Speaker 11: All right. The origin of the universe, whatever begins to
[1:25:15] Speaker 11: has whatever begins to exist, has a cause. The universe
[1:25:19] Speaker 11: began to exist.
[1:25:20] Speaker 1: So what's the evidence that the universe began to exist?
[1:25:25] Speaker 3: We don't know that and special pleading.
[1:25:27] Speaker 11: Yeah, okay, So we've got multiple lines of evidence that
[1:25:31] Speaker 11: point to the existence, I mean, to the beginning of
[1:25:34] Speaker 11: the universe, right, quantitative evidence from the abundance of helium,
[1:25:39] Speaker 11: looking at thermo, evidence from the second law of thermodynamics.
[1:25:45] Speaker 11: Are you reading from a check astronomical Damn? No, I'm
[1:25:49] Speaker 11: reading from my notes.
[1:25:51] Speaker 1: Okay, do you know what any of these words mean?
[1:25:55] Speaker 11: Of course I do.
[1:25:56] Speaker 1: Okay, the abundance of helium in the universe requires that
[1:26:01] Speaker 1: it once didn't exist.
[1:26:02] Speaker 11: How Yeah, what would you say, Well.
[1:26:12] Speaker 1: You're saying that the abundance of helium in the universe
[1:26:15] Speaker 1: requires that it had a beginning it once didn't exist.
[1:26:18] Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out how you made that connection.
[1:26:22] Speaker 11: Well, no, it's the the The amount of healium that
[1:26:26] Speaker 11: is in the universe points to the fact that there
[1:26:29] Speaker 11: it needed to be, It needed to have come from
[1:26:31] Speaker 11: a certain certain conditions in the universe.
[1:26:35] Speaker 3: You definitely need to amend your notes because the word
[1:26:38] Speaker 3: you should have there is hydrogen. I didn't catch that
[1:26:43] Speaker 3: right away. I didn't notice it till just now. But
[1:26:45] Speaker 3: why would there Why would the abundance of hydrogen? Yeah,
[1:26:50] Speaker 3: why why would it point to at one point it's
[1:26:53] Speaker 3: consistent with Big Bang cosmology. But to claim that at
[1:26:57] Speaker 3: one point helium helium the second element on the periodic table.
[1:27:04] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[1:27:04] Speaker 11: So fred Hoyle did a study where he insisted that stationary,
[1:27:10] Speaker 11: infinitely old, unchaining, unchanging universe. But then he studied the
[1:27:14] Speaker 11: way that elements are created within the stars and he
[1:27:16] Speaker 11: was able to calculate the amount of helium. So well,
[1:27:19] Speaker 11: that would come Fredyle first, if it came from nothing.
[1:27:26] Speaker 3: Well, now, Fred Hoyle. Fred Hoyle did not to my knowledge,
[1:27:33] Speaker 3: I can fact checked myself on that, or somebody else
[1:27:35] Speaker 3: can hear in a little bit. But Fred Hoyle believed
[1:27:37] Speaker 3: in this thing called steady state theory, which did not
[1:27:42] Speaker 3: posit a universe that at one point did not exist
[1:27:46] Speaker 3: and then began existing. He rejected the Big Bang. I
[1:27:49] Speaker 3: don't know exactly what his scientific gripe with the Big
[1:27:51] Speaker 3: Bang was, but the Big Bang model accurately predicts the
[1:27:56] Speaker 3: distribution and composition of matter in our universe very well.
[1:28:00] Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, and I could be wrong, but I'm pretty
[1:28:12] Speaker 1: sure helium is formed through radioactive activity, Like it's constantly
[1:28:18] Speaker 1: being formed, Like, how could we possibly assume that it's
[1:28:22] Speaker 1: a finite resource?
[1:28:25] Speaker 3: Almost all the helium in the universe, Well, how don't
[1:28:29] Speaker 3: I say this? I don't know about the quantities actually,
[1:28:32] Speaker 3: but there was a lot of helium created during the
[1:28:34] Speaker 3: Big Bang, but the vast majority of the rest of
[1:28:38] Speaker 3: it is created by stars because stars do fusion and
[1:28:41] Speaker 3: helium is the first element they make. It does happen
[1:28:44] Speaker 3: through radioactive decay as well, but those amounts would be
[1:28:47] Speaker 3: like way way way way smaller than through nucleosynthesis.
[1:28:55] Speaker 11: The amount of helium. The point is that the amount
[1:28:58] Speaker 11: of helium in the universe require that we have now
[1:29:04] Speaker 11: requires certain conditions, and those conditions would be the Big Bang.
[1:29:07] Speaker 1: Yeah, but we agree, Yeah, I agree.
[1:29:10] Speaker 11: But we don't that so yeah, so that just so
[1:29:13] Speaker 11: that would just points to the universe beginning.
[1:29:16] Speaker 1: Wrong, The Big Bang is not the beginning of the universe.
[1:29:19] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's the beginning of well, well no, because
[1:29:23] Speaker 3: before we don't we can't say that before the universe,
[1:29:26] Speaker 3: the universe didn't exist. I'm I'm perfectly happy to say
[1:29:30] Speaker 3: something to the effect of it's the beginning of the
[1:29:32] Speaker 3: universe as we understand it, because the the not necessarily
[1:29:38] Speaker 3: the laws, but the structure perhaps laws of a universe
[1:29:42] Speaker 3: before the Big Bang would be different because our laws
[1:29:45] Speaker 3: of physics literally can't describe it. But it doesn't point
[1:29:49] Speaker 3: to before the Big Bang, no universe and then therefore
[1:29:53] Speaker 3: it was created or anything.
[1:29:54] Speaker 1: Like that, right, And I think the best explanation for
[1:29:58] Speaker 1: this is in like, so my field is like robotics
[1:30:02] Speaker 1: and automation, and in robotics there's a singularity that you
[1:30:07] Speaker 1: find when you've got a multi access a piece of
[1:30:10] Speaker 1: hardware that's moving and you have to calculate its position
[1:30:12] Speaker 1: in space. What you'll discover is sometimes you can't actually
[1:30:15] Speaker 1: calculate its position because it requires you to divide by zero,
[1:30:20] Speaker 1: and so you end up having to create a bunch
[1:30:22] Speaker 1: of weird code to prevent your machine from ever having
[1:30:26] Speaker 1: to divide by zero to avoid singularity. But that certainly
[1:30:31] Speaker 1: doesn't mean, like if your machine hits singularity, it certainly
[1:30:35] Speaker 1: doesn't mean that, like the thing that there's nothing preceding
[1:30:41] Speaker 1: the singularity, Like, we know that there's a condition in
[1:30:45] Speaker 1: which the math breaks down, but the math breaking down
[1:30:48] Speaker 1: no way necessitates that something didn't exist. So like the
[1:30:58] Speaker 1: singularity of the universe is where the math breaks down,
[1:31:02] Speaker 1: we're saying we can no longer compute what we think
[1:31:05] Speaker 1: was the case prior to this position. We're not saying
[1:31:09] Speaker 1: that nothing existed prior to singularity.
[1:31:23] Speaker 3: So what was the what was the next line of evidence?
[1:31:27] Speaker 3: Point of evidence? Low End, You're you're muted.
[1:31:37] Speaker 1: He might not know he's muted.
[1:31:48] Speaker 3: Trumpet noises.
[1:31:52] Speaker 1: You know what. I had to reform at my computer
[1:31:54] Speaker 1: because of a bios issue a couple of weeks ago,
[1:31:56] Speaker 1: and I haven't reset up my soundboard. Yet I really
[1:31:59] Speaker 1: want to get a soundboard sent back up again. I
[1:32:01] Speaker 1: just haven't get around to it. It's so much fun. Yeah, well,
[1:32:06] Speaker 1: I guess while he's figuring out how to unmute himself voxas.
[1:32:10] Speaker 1: Thank you for the supertest, says Hi justin what are
[1:32:12] Speaker 1: your thoughts on Hosea six one through two being interpreted
[1:32:15] Speaker 1: as a prophecy for the resurrection of Jesus. Well, I mean,
[1:32:19] Speaker 1: if I had to guess, I would say, Josea chapter six,
[1:32:22] Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with Jesus' time period whatsoever,
[1:32:25] Speaker 1: because it's typically referring to the Exilic time period. But
[1:32:29] Speaker 1: it is a call to repentance. It says, come, let
[1:32:31] Speaker 1: us return to the Lord for he. It is he
[1:32:34] Speaker 1: who has torn, and he will heal us. He has
[1:32:36] Speaker 1: struck down, and he will bind us up. After two days,
[1:32:40] Speaker 1: he will revive us. On the third day he will
[1:32:42] Speaker 1: raise us up that we may live for him. Yeah,
[1:32:44] Speaker 1: this is exactly what happened. This was predicted during the
[1:32:47] Speaker 1: Assyrian conquest. So Joseiah was writing about the Assyrian conquest
[1:32:51] Speaker 1: where God said in not just Hoseah, but also in
[1:32:54] Speaker 1: the Book of Amos, that He's going to strike down
[1:32:56] Speaker 1: the Israelites. He said, there won't be anywhere for you
[1:32:59] Speaker 1: to run. You'll you'll go down to shield, but my
[1:33:01] Speaker 1: hand will find you. You'll climb up to the heavens,
[1:33:03] Speaker 1: but you know I'll be there. But then after you're
[1:33:06] Speaker 1: struck down, you know God will have mercy on you
[1:33:08] Speaker 1: and he'll restore you. So I think if you just
[1:33:11] Speaker 1: like read the context, it's pretty clear that it's not
[1:33:14] Speaker 1: talking about a messiah. But I know Christians want anything
[1:33:17] Speaker 1: in the Bible that sounds vaguely familiar to Jesus to
[1:33:20] Speaker 1: become a prophecy about Jesus and just ignore the actual
[1:33:23] Speaker 1: context of what the author was really saying. So the
[1:33:26] Speaker 1: guests dropped Eric. I don't know what happened there.
[1:33:28] Speaker 3: But yeah, they entered the singularity. I think that's what happened.
[1:33:34] Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh well, Master, she says, praise Lord rock Solid Doug.
[1:33:40] Speaker 1: I agree, praise Doug the rock of our foundation. And Covey,
[1:33:44] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the Superjest says, donating to
[1:33:47] Speaker 1: Doug Spanky dream Team. Hell yeah, I think Doug and
[1:33:51] Speaker 1: Spankyred dream team actually, and Big w Maximillan, good to
[1:33:55] Speaker 1: see you tonight, my friend. Thank you for the twenty
[1:33:58] Speaker 1: eight forty, so that I thought you had foreskin. I'm
[1:34:01] Speaker 1: sorry forsaken, and now I got foreskin. On the brain
[1:34:03] Speaker 1: down somebody mentioned foreskin. That's all I can think, Maximists,
[1:34:10] Speaker 1: I thought you had forsaken us prayed to Doug that
[1:34:14] Speaker 1: he told me to be patient. It paid off. Hail
[1:34:16] Speaker 1: Tonight's Holy Trinity, Doug, Planet, Peterson, Big and Justin Well,
[1:34:21] Speaker 1: thank you so much. I really appreciate that, Maximilian. And
[1:34:23] Speaker 1: sorry I was out. I got like a last minute
[1:34:27] Speaker 1: invite to go discuss a topic on can the West
[1:34:33] Speaker 1: or can America survived without Christianity on the Tim Poole
[1:34:37] Speaker 1: Show with Inspiring Philosophy. So that was a good time.
[1:34:40] Speaker 1: I actually really enjoyed it. Definitely check it out. So
[1:34:44] Speaker 1: let's grab a Jay Jagger eighteen next from r Q,
[1:34:50] Speaker 1: see if they can connect.
[1:34:55] Speaker 3: I had a really interesting quick thought because we were
[1:34:59] Speaker 3: discussing your discussion, you know, on Tim Poole, and you
[1:35:03] Speaker 3: know when Ip he keeps saying like, well, we're not
[1:35:06] Speaker 3: debating whether or not Christianity's true, We're just debating like
[1:35:09] Speaker 3: does Christianity do like good things whatever? That's really odd
[1:35:13] Speaker 3: for another reason because if it doesn't even matter whether
[1:35:16] Speaker 3: or not it's true. Then these Christian beliefs can be
[1:35:19] Speaker 3: held by anybody, which means they're just secular beliefs. So
[1:35:22] Speaker 3: we obviously don't need it.
[1:35:26] Speaker 1: And like if I said, okay, well then if it
[1:35:29] Speaker 1: doesn't matter if it's true, what if I just make
[1:35:31] Speaker 1: up a better religion and replace it with replace Christianity
[1:35:34] Speaker 1: with it. You know, he wouldn't have liked that, but
[1:35:37] Speaker 1: it wasn't my show, Like I couldn't really, I was
[1:35:40] Speaker 1: kind of limited to how I could respond and how
[1:35:43] Speaker 1: often I could respond to the talking points because like
[1:35:46] Speaker 1: there was definitely kind of a like just like here
[1:35:49] Speaker 1: there's a dialogue tree that we're going through, and Tim
[1:35:52] Speaker 1: Poole's got his own dialogue tree that he has to
[1:35:55] Speaker 1: get through for the show to go from point A
[1:35:57] Speaker 1: to point B. So I didn't want to go Scorchtarth
[1:36:00] Speaker 1: on him and get kicked off Roberto. We'll probably get
[1:36:07] Speaker 1: Roberto Renteriria in here. We'll see if Roberto can connect.
[1:36:11] Speaker 1: Dastardly D says caught you live. I think you made
[1:36:14] Speaker 1: me an atheist, well a big w Dastardly I'm glad
[1:36:18] Speaker 1: that you saw the light of atheism and have come
[1:36:22] Speaker 1: over to the dark side. I think Roberto was able
[1:36:24] Speaker 1: to connect hiding Roberto Roberto Ope, I think he came
[1:36:32] Speaker 1: up by accident. Oh boy coor big w Thank you
[1:36:39] Speaker 1: so much, Core for the super Chad's good to see
[1:36:41] Speaker 1: you tonight, says Hey Justin. I was wondering how scholars
[1:36:45] Speaker 1: and Christians in general rationalized Matthew sixteen, twenty seven, twenty
[1:36:48] Speaker 1: eight and related passages pointed that Jesus clearly saying he
[1:36:51] Speaker 1: was coming back within a generation cognitive dissonance of the masses. Yeah.
[1:36:55] Speaker 1: I was just talking about this with the Exois brothers
[1:36:58] Speaker 1: this morning. That's exactly what they do. They'll say, well,
[1:37:01] Speaker 1: this generation obviously doesn't mean this generation. It means that generation.
[1:37:05] Speaker 1: Even though that's a useless statement because if he's talking
[1:37:10] Speaker 1: about a future generation that's going to witness Jesus coming back,
[1:37:13] Speaker 1: you don't have to say that that future generation is
[1:37:15] Speaker 1: going to be alive. By default, they're going to be
[1:37:17] Speaker 1: alive because they're the ones witnessing it. You would only
[1:37:20] Speaker 1: make this statement if you're giving a timeline for when
[1:37:23] Speaker 1: you're coming back, and that timeline is now. That's why
[1:37:27] Speaker 1: In Matthew twenty four. He says the same thing in
[1:37:29] Speaker 1: Matthew sixteen. He literally talks about the people standing there,
[1:37:33] Speaker 1: standing with him right there won't taste death. So I'm
[1:37:36] Speaker 1: totally with you, Kora. Listen, what they're doing is just
[1:37:39] Speaker 1: cognitive dissonance, and they're going to do whatever variety of
[1:37:42] Speaker 1: words don't mean words that they can do. You know,
[1:37:46] Speaker 1: James will come in.
[1:37:48] Speaker 2: I'm a friendly.
[1:37:49] Speaker 5: I just came up to maybe.
[1:37:51] Speaker 14: I know the scheme of the show is a little
[1:37:54] Speaker 14: comedic and I love it. But to remind you guys
[1:37:57] Speaker 14: that you really do change minds out here, and Eric,
[1:38:01] Speaker 14: your book was one of the things that got me
[1:38:02] Speaker 14: thinking in a different way, and I just wanted to
[1:38:06] Speaker 14: say thank you.
[1:38:07] Speaker 3: No, you're very welcome.
[1:38:09] Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you guys.
[1:38:10] Speaker 1: Big vi you James, thanks for timing in. Here's buddy.
[1:38:15] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[1:38:16] Speaker 1: Eric Peterson has got two books out now right, what's
[1:38:20] Speaker 1: your second?
[1:38:20] Speaker 3: One second book is Facts that Aren't True, Popular Myths, misconceptions,
[1:38:27] Speaker 3: old wives, tales and rumors. It's about one hundred and
[1:38:30] Speaker 3: twenty commonly believed things that are all false, like the
[1:38:34] Speaker 3: North Star is the brightest star, you need a glasses
[1:38:37] Speaker 3: of water a day, you can see the Great Wall
[1:38:39] Speaker 3: of China from space Jesus existed.
[1:38:43] Speaker 15: No, that's not it.
[1:38:46] Speaker 3: Just I had I had to be I had to
[1:38:48] Speaker 3: be an asshole just for a second.
[1:38:50] Speaker 1: But we've got is it? Time traveler?
[1:38:56] Speaker 6: Yeah?
[1:38:56] Speaker 10: Hi, hello everybody?
[1:38:58] Speaker 1: How are you doing? Time traveler? Are you said scene?
[1:39:00] Speaker 1: Are you a believer?
[1:39:04] Speaker 10: Okay?
[1:39:05] Speaker 16: Irrespective of that or what I believe or not, I
[1:39:09] Speaker 16: have one fact which I wanted to discuss here, which.
[1:39:15] Speaker 1: I mean somehow this is a live stream about beliefs
[1:39:18] Speaker 1: in deities. Do you have a belief in a d Yes, yes,
[1:39:22] Speaker 1: I'm something we want to know about. Yeah, we want
[1:39:25] Speaker 1: to know about your deity? Which deity do you worship?
[1:39:30] Speaker 10: Also? I am believer? I am Muslim?
[1:39:33] Speaker 1: Oh okay? Cool? So would be the best argument for
[1:39:37] Speaker 1: the Muslim God being real?
[1:39:40] Speaker 10: Yeah? For me?
[1:39:42] Speaker 16: I will not quote any religious argument, but I will try.
[1:39:47] Speaker 16: I will quote one scientific argument, which is entropy. So
[1:39:52] Speaker 16: as we all know that the entropy always increases with
[1:39:58] Speaker 16: the time, what is entrop If entropy is the disturbance
[1:40:03] Speaker 16: or disorders disorder of the things. So if if the
[1:40:09] Speaker 16: table is managed everything, and if you throw it away
[1:40:13] Speaker 16: or something, so, there are very very few chres that
[1:40:18] Speaker 16: automatically it will be arranged.
[1:40:21] Speaker 10: In that way.
[1:40:23] Speaker 16: There are very very less probability that automatically it can
[1:40:27] Speaker 16: be in. There must be some force or something which
[1:40:30] Speaker 16: can which might apply to arrange that table in order again,
[1:40:36] Speaker 16: And that is I think, as you all might also
[1:40:39] Speaker 16: know that the time entropy increases. So and I don't
[1:40:45] Speaker 16: need to mention the numbers in the entirely.
[1:40:49] Speaker 1: You understand the statement that you're making. So the idea
[1:40:53] Speaker 1: of entropy increasing comes from thermodynamics, yes, and so like
[1:40:58] Speaker 1: the the MP, the entropy in a closed system always
[1:41:04] Speaker 1: goes from a state of from order to disorder because
[1:41:08] Speaker 1: that's how heat transfer works, right. So, but that's in
[1:41:12] Speaker 1: a closed system. We don't live in a closed system.
[1:41:17] Speaker 16: So you mean that this entropy law does not apply
[1:41:21] Speaker 16: it to the universe.
[1:41:23] Speaker 1: This is what I'm saying, not the way you're.
[1:41:25] Speaker 10: Because it is not a closed system, right, don't.
[1:41:28] Speaker 3: We don't know one hundred percent. So I think Justin
[1:41:30] Speaker 3: was thinking about like Earth, but Earth is part of
[1:41:32] Speaker 3: the universe, which is a grander system. Now is the
[1:41:35] Speaker 3: universe an open system or a closed system? We actually
[1:41:38] Speaker 3: don't know that.
[1:41:41] Speaker 10: Now.
[1:41:41] Speaker 3: Before before a few decades, like before I was born,
[1:41:45] Speaker 3: it would have been very tempting and very reasonable to
[1:41:47] Speaker 3: say that it is. However, we now know that dark
[1:41:50] Speaker 3: energy exists and we don't know the source of it.
[1:41:54] Speaker 3: So it may be energy from outside the universe as
[1:41:59] Speaker 3: we understand, which is odd, or it may just be
[1:42:03] Speaker 3: a property of space time itself, but it's actually we
[1:42:07] Speaker 3: don't actually know. But so how would this point to God?
[1:42:13] Speaker 10: Yeah? Okay, because these points to God is that.
[1:42:18] Speaker 16: The if the entropy is increasing and the universe is
[1:42:24] Speaker 16: as we know is thirteen point eight million years old.
[1:42:27] Speaker 16: Although given the current facts, so with that we see
[1:42:32] Speaker 16: now the over the Solar system at least how the earthworks,
[1:42:38] Speaker 16: and the precision in the numbers in the distance and
[1:42:42] Speaker 16: everything and for all that as we all know that
[1:42:47] Speaker 16: that requires exact accuracy and efficiency.
[1:42:51] Speaker 1: Eric, Well, if I want to make sure that we're
[1:42:53] Speaker 1: all on the same page here, because like I had
[1:42:56] Speaker 1: to learn a little bit of thermodynamics, and I want
[1:42:58] Speaker 1: to make sure that we're not talking about thermodynamics, because
[1:43:02] Speaker 1: in thermo dynamics, that's not what the law actually, a
[1:43:04] Speaker 1: state doesn't state that entropy is going to constantly increase.
[1:43:07] Speaker 1: It just says that the entropy it's a decrease.
[1:43:12] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's a hard concept. It can actually be
[1:43:16] Speaker 3: formulated in many different ways. And what time Traveler was
[1:43:19] Speaker 3: saying earlier is that if you take a system, the
[1:43:22] Speaker 3: rearrangement of particles or whatever in the system, it's just
[1:43:27] Speaker 3: mathematically unfeasible that it will return to a prior state,
[1:43:32] Speaker 3: which is an accurate different way to talk about entropy.
[1:43:39] Speaker 3: And then later on or so, but the most recent
[1:43:42] Speaker 3: thing here is time Traveler. It really sounded like you
[1:43:46] Speaker 3: completely shifted to fine tuning or something, because you said,
[1:43:52] Speaker 3: we know about things that will happen in the future
[1:43:54] Speaker 3: to an extreme, extremely high precision, and that points to God.
[1:43:59] Speaker 3: So I guess I'm kind of curious. I think we
[1:44:01] Speaker 3: need to still see where this is going, but like
[1:44:04] Speaker 3: hopefully we can land the plane on that.
[1:44:06] Speaker 16: Yes, exactly, you you use the right word. This is
[1:44:10] Speaker 16: fine tuning, as we now know that in the world
[1:44:16] Speaker 16: or in the Solar system where we exist, this is
[1:44:19] Speaker 16: really really fine tuned. I don't have the numbers exactly
[1:44:23] Speaker 16: to mention. I can collect the data.
[1:44:26] Speaker 1: But but that's yeah, fine, mean, but.
[1:44:29] Speaker 16: The accuracy of the movement, accuracy of the movement of
[1:44:35] Speaker 16: the Earth, or the distance or the distance from the
[1:44:41] Speaker 16: from the sun.
[1:44:43] Speaker 1: Listen, we know the talking point, so we're asking you
[1:44:45] Speaker 1: fine tuned for what?
[1:44:48] Speaker 6: Right?
[1:44:49] Speaker 1: So you I mean, we know the fine tuning talking point,
[1:44:53] Speaker 1: we know the entry talking point. We've heard it a
[1:44:54] Speaker 1: hundred times. We're trying to kind of move through the
[1:44:57] Speaker 1: conversation without having to belabor every point. I need to
[1:45:06] Speaker 1: bring a playing a deck of playing cards up with
[1:45:09] Speaker 1: me to demonstrate the problem with the fine tuning argument,
[1:45:13] Speaker 1: which is just because something is in a particular order
[1:45:16] Speaker 1: that is exceedingly rare doesn't mean that there was a
[1:45:21] Speaker 1: cause behind it. It's only significant if like you, meant
[1:45:26] Speaker 1: to do it. If I said, I'm gonna throw down
[1:45:28] Speaker 1: to fifty two cards and then they're going to be
[1:45:30] Speaker 1: in this order, if they show up in that order,
[1:45:33] Speaker 1: that is impossible. That's fine tuning. But if I just
[1:45:36] Speaker 1: throw down the deck of cards and say, well, the
[1:45:38] Speaker 1: fact that it's in this order means that it's fine tuned, well,
[1:45:41] Speaker 1: that obviously wouldn't work. It's just random. It just happens
[1:45:44] Speaker 1: to be that way.
[1:45:46] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of problems with
[1:45:49] Speaker 3: fine tuning. I mean, an observer can't observe the universe
[1:45:53] Speaker 3: and not conclude that it's conducive for observation. That's the
[1:45:59] Speaker 3: puddle problem, or the anthropic principle, as we as we
[1:46:02] Speaker 3: call it. But you know there there are lots and
[1:46:06] Speaker 3: lots of other problems with fine tuning. Contraporary is still there.
[1:46:11] Speaker 1: I think he's still talking. He doesn't know he's needed.
[1:46:15] Speaker 1: I don't know if he spends a lot of time
[1:46:16] Speaker 1: on TikTok. I don't think he knows what's happening.
[1:46:20] Speaker 3: Maybe maybe not.
[1:46:24] Speaker 10: I'm listening.
[1:46:26] Speaker 16: But my point was, if universe is the result of
[1:46:31] Speaker 16: the Big Bank, then is the kind of blast, then
[1:46:36] Speaker 16: the universe in which we are leaving should not be
[1:46:40] Speaker 16: in well fine tuned, should not be in precise because
[1:46:43] Speaker 16: of entropy, because and because what if we'll not result
[1:46:48] Speaker 16: in so precident.
[1:46:50] Speaker 1: But I don't think I don't think you heard what
[1:46:52] Speaker 1: we just said about fine tuning.
[1:46:55] Speaker 10: Fine tuning.
[1:46:56] Speaker 1: The fine tuning argument is a presuppositional argument. Presupposes that
[1:47:01] Speaker 1: the universe has an endpoint in mind, like it has
[1:47:06] Speaker 1: a goal in mind. But that presupposes a goal setter.
[1:47:10] Speaker 1: You'd have to demonstrate that there was a goal setter
[1:47:13] Speaker 1: before you can presuppose that there's a goal.
[1:47:19] Speaker 10: The goal is the existence of life here.
[1:47:23] Speaker 1: Right, that's a presupposition, That's what I'm saying. You're saying
[1:47:25] Speaker 1: the universe has a goal to create life. That is
[1:47:28] Speaker 1: a presupposition about the universe. But you have to substantiate that,
[1:47:33] Speaker 1: you can't disclaim it.
[1:47:36] Speaker 3: Entropy a system having entropy and fine tuning don't contradict
[1:47:42] Speaker 3: because entropy is just like a measure of disorder. It's
[1:47:47] Speaker 3: not a measure of physical constants. And if those physical
[1:47:50] Speaker 3: constants are fine tuned, then they would just they would
[1:47:53] Speaker 3: be fine tuned for entropy. And whether whether the universe
[1:47:59] Speaker 3: is per formed or the result of a big bang
[1:48:02] Speaker 3: or whatever, or the result of God, we still have
[1:48:05] Speaker 3: entropy and we still have fine tuning. So I don't
[1:48:08] Speaker 3: understand how it could possibly like if you're saying we
[1:48:11] Speaker 3: can't have entropy and fine tuning. Fine, but we live
[1:48:15] Speaker 3: in a universe with both of those things. And you're
[1:48:18] Speaker 3: trying to tell us that God fixes this. But but,
[1:48:24] Speaker 3: but the contradiction still exists if God exists, because you're
[1:48:28] Speaker 3: what you're trying to sell us on is you can't
[1:48:30] Speaker 3: have entropy and fine tuning. So is it you is
[1:48:33] Speaker 3: it your argument that there actually is no.
[1:48:34] Speaker 10: Entropy point, Yeah, that is my point.
[1:48:37] Speaker 3: Or maybe, but there is no entropy, okay, is your
[1:48:43] Speaker 3: argument that there is no entropy in the universe.
[1:48:47] Speaker 16: No, My argument is there is entropy and if we
[1:48:53] Speaker 16: if and in the presence of entropy, this would not
[1:48:57] Speaker 16: have been possible.
[1:48:59] Speaker 10: So that's why there is a force behind it. You
[1:49:02] Speaker 10: can name it court.
[1:49:04] Speaker 3: No, it would literally just be the laws of nature
[1:49:08] Speaker 3: because the reason we have entropy is completely described by
[1:49:13] Speaker 3: the laws of physics. That's why we even know that
[1:49:18] Speaker 3: it exists on a quantitative level. It's it's understandable at
[1:49:22] Speaker 3: an intuitive level because you look around and well, why
[1:49:25] Speaker 3: does my floor never sweep itself? I always have to
[1:49:29] Speaker 3: be the one that does it. And that's how I
[1:49:32] Speaker 3: know God doesn't exist, because God wouldn't do that to me.
[1:49:35] Speaker 3: But I forgot what I was going to say.
[1:49:39] Speaker 16: Now, where does the laws come from? Laws of nature
[1:49:42] Speaker 16: which govern the universe?
[1:49:44] Speaker 1: Well, I think that's a misconception of how the word
[1:49:46] Speaker 1: law works, that there's not like a law that the
[1:49:49] Speaker 1: universe is like checking and say, oh, well there's a
[1:49:51] Speaker 1: law in the book, I have to obey it like this,
[1:49:54] Speaker 1: But that's the way, that's the way the universe behaves.
[1:49:58] Speaker 1: That's the that's the way the universe behaves. We call
[1:50:01] Speaker 1: them laws.
[1:50:03] Speaker 3: It's a descriptive it's descriptive prescriptive law.
[1:50:08] Speaker 16: We can name anything law or anything, but we know
[1:50:12] Speaker 16: that there are certain defined things which the nature will
[1:50:17] Speaker 16: not violate, which nature do not violate well, for example
[1:50:22] Speaker 16: gravity or the other.
[1:50:26] Speaker 1: But you're assuming that that is following a law, like
[1:50:31] Speaker 1: it can't violate the law because it's following the law.
[1:50:33] Speaker 1: But that you've got it backwards. The law is just
[1:50:36] Speaker 1: a description of the way it behaves. It's not like
[1:50:39] Speaker 1: obeying anything.
[1:50:41] Speaker 16: Yeah, so that means universe has a specific behavior.
[1:50:45] Speaker 10: So let's name it like that.
[1:50:47] Speaker 1: I agree the universe has behavior.
[1:50:49] Speaker 16: In the universe have a behavior, and then they don't
[1:50:53] Speaker 16: tend to violate that behavior.
[1:50:55] Speaker 6: I know.
[1:50:57] Speaker 10: That somebody has tuned them to do like this, because.
[1:51:03] Speaker 16: Nothing can do automatically. But or if they would not
[1:51:08] Speaker 16: have been a specific tune, then something should have doing
[1:51:13] Speaker 16: one thing and other things should have been doing anything.
[1:51:15] Speaker 1: If you're if you're making bad arguments at the same time,
[1:51:20] Speaker 1: like you're trying to go from the uniformity of nature
[1:51:23] Speaker 1: to fine tuning, and you kind of have to pick one,
[1:51:26] Speaker 1: right so the fine tuning argument, you didn't. It didn't
[1:51:29] Speaker 1: go so well, Like, you can't substantiate that the mind
[1:51:33] Speaker 1: that would instantiate like the goal of the universe exists. Right,
[1:51:37] Speaker 1: So fine tuning hasn't been substantiated yet, which means you
[1:51:42] Speaker 1: can't use fine tuning to substantiate your next argument.
[1:51:49] Speaker 16: No, my next argument was not the fine tuning. So
[1:51:54] Speaker 16: was the laws of nature that way they come from?
[1:51:57] Speaker 1: I'm aware, but I'm suggesting that the law of nature
[1:52:01] Speaker 1: are a product of the fine tuning. And you haven't
[1:52:04] Speaker 1: even substantiated the fine tuning argument yet.
[1:52:08] Speaker 16: The entropy might be one part of that laws of
[1:52:12] Speaker 16: those laws of nature which governed the universe.
[1:52:17] Speaker 1: It's not it's just a description of the way the
[1:52:18] Speaker 1: universe behaves.
[1:52:19] Speaker 10: It's so science.
[1:52:22] Speaker 16: What we know is just how the things works. We
[1:52:25] Speaker 16: are trying to find how the things work, but we
[1:52:29] Speaker 16: don't know anything how or where have they come from?
[1:52:33] Speaker 1: They don't come from any where.
[1:52:34] Speaker 10: God comes in eternal So how can you prove do
[1:52:40] Speaker 10: you have a proof? You don't know?
[1:52:41] Speaker 1: Actually, I think there is actually the most likely way
[1:52:45] Speaker 1: to solve this problem. Right, So we've got two possible realities.
[1:52:50] Speaker 1: One reality is everything around us that we can see
[1:52:53] Speaker 1: that we know for sure exists. Everything around us has
[1:52:57] Speaker 1: existed in some form or another forever. The other possibility
[1:53:02] Speaker 1: is that there's a like a sky fairy that created
[1:53:05] Speaker 1: all of it that we have no evidence for. I
[1:53:08] Speaker 1: think one of those two theories has far more assumptions
[1:53:12] Speaker 1: built in than the other theory.
[1:53:15] Speaker 3: You're also, I mean, you're stating that we don't know
[1:53:22] Speaker 3: why the laws of the universe are the way they
[1:53:24] Speaker 3: are as evidence that a god exists, but we have
[1:53:28] Speaker 3: no priors, we have no evidence of the god. You're
[1:53:33] Speaker 3: invoking it in this fallacious way that we typically call
[1:53:37] Speaker 3: an argument from incredulity.
[1:53:40] Speaker 16: Yes, it's not the evidence, it's just the interpretation or
[1:53:46] Speaker 16: the understanding that because this the universe works like this,
[1:53:54] Speaker 16: and the reason source we don't know, so that's why
[1:53:58] Speaker 16: there is some This is just like the computing. If
[1:54:03] Speaker 16: we build a computer as a human and we live
[1:54:06] Speaker 16: inside the computer system, then we observe, Okay, here are
[1:54:11] Speaker 16: the vires, and here the these are going on. Here,
[1:54:15] Speaker 16: how the current is flowing. But we don't know who
[1:54:19] Speaker 16: has created this. So we are inside that computer system,
[1:54:24] Speaker 16: so we can just observe how the thing. So but somebody,
[1:54:31] Speaker 16: but we definitely know that somebody has created it, have existed.
[1:54:38] Speaker 3: You're begging the question really badly. You're you're you're invoking
[1:54:42] Speaker 3: a simulation that is known to have had something that
[1:54:45] Speaker 3: created the simulation and saying, the people in the simulation
[1:54:49] Speaker 3: know it came from somewhere. Therefore we we know that
[1:54:53] Speaker 3: there's the simulator or whatever. No, they don't know that
[1:54:59] Speaker 3: you're and so they can can't invoke it from from
[1:55:02] Speaker 3: anywhere from any evidence within the system. So what you're
[1:55:07] Speaker 3: actually just begging the question in this uh, in the
[1:55:12] Speaker 3: way you've frame framed it here.
[1:55:14] Speaker 16: That's why we also cannot give the proof or solid
[1:55:20] Speaker 16: or one hundred percent evidence that God has created this
[1:55:24] Speaker 16: simulation because we are inside that space and time.
[1:55:29] Speaker 3: Right, But we can't make a probabilistic argument because we're
[1:55:34] Speaker 3: talking about something that's fundamentally unknowable.
[1:55:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's also true that even if like let's
[1:55:41] Speaker 1: theoretically say that we could determine that we were in
[1:55:44] Speaker 1: a simulation that still wouldn't lead you to a God.
[1:55:47] Speaker 1: It could very well be likely that we're being simulated
[1:55:49] Speaker 1: by a higher form of life that evolved before us.
[1:55:55] Speaker 16: Yes, simulator that means the creator and whoever.
[1:55:58] Speaker 1: That is can because it's almost like you didn't hear
[1:56:03] Speaker 1: anything I said. So what I said was, even if
[1:56:07] Speaker 1: we were in a simulation, which you certainly couldn't substantiate,
[1:56:10] Speaker 1: it doesn't actually necessitate a god. It could be possible
[1:56:14] Speaker 1: that there are higher forms of life in the universe
[1:56:17] Speaker 1: that created the simulation that we're in. It's just another
[1:56:21] Speaker 1: naturalistic phenomenon, like you don't have to invoke a creator.
[1:56:31] Speaker 1: But time travelers having a little trouble track in some
[1:56:34] Speaker 1: of the arguments. I'm curious to know what country he's from.
[1:56:37] Speaker 1: Do you detect the country of the actor? Okay, Okay, I.
[1:56:42] Speaker 16: Don't know, they said, they said, okay, can you now?
[1:56:48] Speaker 1: Is there a reason why like you, like you believe
[1:56:52] Speaker 1: in a specific god, yet you're arguing for a nebulous god.
[1:56:56] Speaker 1: Why is that?
[1:56:57] Speaker 10: I'm I'm not believing in space.
[1:57:00] Speaker 16: I believe in any entity who has created as a humans, Yes,
[1:57:07] Speaker 16: who has created us as a human at this universe.
[1:57:11] Speaker 1: So my point is that you actually believe in a
[1:57:13] Speaker 1: specific god, but you're laying down an argument for a
[1:57:16] Speaker 1: nebulous god that really doesn't really have any definitive properties.
[1:57:20] Speaker 1: So I'm actually really curious to know if you have
[1:57:22] Speaker 1: an argument for your specific god.
[1:57:26] Speaker 16: Yes, I here also many times this this TikTok life
[1:57:34] Speaker 16: from you and also others doctor Blizz for example, and
[1:57:38] Speaker 16: they say that if the God is all good and
[1:57:41] Speaker 16: all doing, then why the people here are dying, and
[1:57:45] Speaker 16: why earthquakes takes place and why a lot of things.
[1:57:49] Speaker 1: Did I make that argument?
[1:57:51] Speaker 10: No, no you didn't.
[1:57:52] Speaker 6: But are you.
[1:57:53] Speaker 1: Talking to me? Are you talking to doctor Books right now.
[1:57:57] Speaker 15: To see this?
[1:57:58] Speaker 16: I'm talking because you are asking for the specific god?
[1:58:02] Speaker 10: So I what attributes.
[1:58:05] Speaker 1: Hold on him? Let me see if I can make
[1:58:07] Speaker 1: this bigger. I can expand you on the screen, but
[1:58:09] Speaker 1: nobody on YouTube can read it. What's the same?
[1:58:13] Speaker 15: So this is from charapter sixty eight. This is the
[1:58:17] Speaker 15: interpretation of it is what the noon is the great
[1:58:22] Speaker 15: whale that is leaning on the ocean, on which on
[1:58:26] Speaker 15: the bank of which is dear.
[1:58:29] Speaker 1: So the earth is on a whale. Well, there there
[1:58:33] Speaker 1: you go, classic Earth. Yeah, this is this is why,
[1:58:43] Speaker 1: This is why I actually ask these questions because like
[1:58:45] Speaker 1: every time I get a Muslim apologist up here, they
[1:58:49] Speaker 1: never actually want to talk about their specific god. They
[1:58:51] Speaker 1: want to like talk about this nondescript God and then
[1:58:56] Speaker 1: pretend like they can smuggle in their God after that.
[1:59:01] Speaker 5: But like you believe.
[1:59:06] Speaker 16: No, no, no, no, you are taking you're interpretating, interpreting
[1:59:11] Speaker 16: in your own way. I didn't say that. I am
[1:59:14] Speaker 16: just saying that whoever created this, this earth, or planet
[1:59:20] Speaker 16: or humans, he is he. I can name it as
[1:59:25] Speaker 16: a God, whether he is higher being or he is
[1:59:28] Speaker 16: the higher other beings, other or thing.
[1:59:30] Speaker 10: Who ever created these all universes.
[1:59:33] Speaker 6: And the.
[1:59:37] Speaker 10: Name of God is God. You can name There are
[1:59:40] Speaker 10: many names. You can name it anything.
[1:59:42] Speaker 16: There is one entity who had created everything that is God.
[1:59:47] Speaker 1: In your religion the name you can name it anything.
[1:59:50] Speaker 16: We can name it God. We can name it in Arabic.
[1:59:54] Speaker 16: It is called.
[1:59:57] Speaker 1: From his own religion. I just asked you a very
[1:59:59] Speaker 1: easy question. In your religion, what's the name of God?
[2:00:01] Speaker 1: It's a law right, yeah?
[2:00:03] Speaker 10: Cool language, it is Allah.
[2:00:06] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[2:00:06] Speaker 16: I know we all not in every language, in every language,
[2:00:10] Speaker 16: they have their name.
[2:00:11] Speaker 1: You don't.
[2:00:12] Speaker 10: That is one entity.
[2:00:14] Speaker 1: You don't have to explain it. We all know what
[2:00:16] Speaker 1: you believe. You're just wasting your breath right now. So
[2:00:19] Speaker 1: I want to know the argument that would land somebody
[2:00:22] Speaker 1: to believe that your God is real as opposed to
[2:00:24] Speaker 1: a violent, psychopathic pedophile.
[2:00:30] Speaker 10: I didn't understand your question properly.
[2:00:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, I would have here, what.
[2:00:36] Speaker 3: What's the best argument that your God exists? That's all
[2:00:39] Speaker 3: we're asking for.
[2:00:40] Speaker 10: Yeah, my, so.
[2:00:45] Speaker 16: One one I told this entropy, and the second is.
[2:00:50] Speaker 1: The we want we want the argument for a lah.
[2:00:55] Speaker 10: Yeah to exist.
[2:00:57] Speaker 16: That and the first main thing is that he will
[2:01:03] Speaker 16: never come in over mind because of based on the
[2:01:08] Speaker 16: facts or these things, because he's out of this space
[2:01:14] Speaker 16: and time.
[2:01:14] Speaker 1: So great, So that's the way.
[2:01:17] Speaker 10: God is real then, because and you evidence.
[2:01:25] Speaker 1: Is literally capable of saying, I don't Yeah, I didn't
[2:01:30] Speaker 1: even understand that he he'll never come into our mind because.
[2:01:34] Speaker 10: He's out of He is bigger than this.
[2:01:41] Speaker 1: I can't believe this God is all loving. Jesus at
[2:01:44] Speaker 1: least says he'll come inside of you. This this guy
[2:01:46] Speaker 1: that won't even like at least give you a reach around.
[2:01:49] Speaker 1: I have no reason to believe that he cares.
[2:01:50] Speaker 3: And you won't buy a dinner or anything.
[2:01:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, hell, that's crazy. At least Jesus gives you dinner.
[2:01:55] Speaker 1: You get wine and bread, unlimited fish. Does does Mohammad
[2:02:05] Speaker 1: have abs.
[2:02:09] Speaker 10: As?
[2:02:09] Speaker 1: What do you mean because Jesus is ripped. You ever
[2:02:11] Speaker 1: see Jesus on the cross, He's got like rock Hard abs,
[2:02:15] Speaker 1: he's got a six pack of dugs.
[2:02:26] Speaker 3: Isometric exercise.
[2:02:29] Speaker 16: Because you ask for the evidence for the god to exist,
[2:02:33] Speaker 16: do you have the opposite?
[2:02:34] Speaker 10: Do you have the evidence that he doesn't exist?
[2:02:37] Speaker 1: Do you have evidence that the tooth fairy doesn't exist?
[2:02:40] Speaker 1: But also the answer to your questions, yes, we have
[2:02:43] Speaker 1: evidence that your specific god doesn't exist. Yeah.
[2:02:46] Speaker 10: No, no, the God doesn't exist.
[2:02:47] Speaker 1: Because your specific God doesn't exist. Because in the Quran
[2:02:52] Speaker 1: it says that if there could be like one contradiction
[2:02:55] Speaker 1: or one wrong thing found in the Koran, then then
[2:02:57] Speaker 1: the whole thing should be thrown away.
[2:03:00] Speaker 10: So there is nothing wrong in the Quran. What do
[2:03:03] Speaker 10: you think?
[2:03:04] Speaker 1: Yeah? Where does semen come from?
[2:03:09] Speaker 10: Semens?
[2:03:10] Speaker 6: Yeah?
[2:03:12] Speaker 3: Oh, sperm?
[2:03:14] Speaker 10: Sperms come from men?
[2:03:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, what part of the box?
[2:03:20] Speaker 10: I don't know.
[2:03:21] Speaker 6: Have you read.
[2:03:22] Speaker 10: About not school.
[2:03:28] Speaker 3: Comes from the balls? Dude?
[2:03:30] Speaker 1: You ever heard of testicles?
[2:03:33] Speaker 10: Yeah? Maybe, but it has nothing maybe.
[2:03:39] Speaker 3: Yeah, we're getting there.
[2:03:40] Speaker 1: Testicles aren't mentioned in the Koran, which is the problem
[2:03:43] Speaker 1: because it says that the semen that creates human beings
[2:03:46] Speaker 1: comes from between the ribs and the backbone.
[2:03:52] Speaker 15: Where it is mentioned you that is like, it's a
[2:03:56] Speaker 15: very very popular chapter. It's literally a pet yeah experience.
[2:04:02] Speaker 1: Give me a second to put it on the screen.
[2:04:04] Speaker 1: Make sure he can see it.
[2:04:07] Speaker 15: Like it is one with.
[2:04:11] Speaker 1: Yep, so stemming from between the backbone and the rib cage.
[2:04:16] Speaker 1: I should have grabbed the prior passage as well. Give
[2:04:18] Speaker 1: me a second to grab the prior passage.
[2:04:25] Speaker 15: From that would be better.
[2:04:28] Speaker 1: I can definitely grab five as well.
[2:04:30] Speaker 15: Yeah, because if necessity, it has to be the liquid
[2:04:34] Speaker 15: that is baitful yep.
[2:04:36] Speaker 1: Let people consider what they are created from. They were
[2:04:38] Speaker 1: created from a spurting fluid stemming from between the backbone
[2:04:42] Speaker 1: and the rib cage. But that's not where sperm comes from.
[2:04:47] Speaker 10: Mm hmm Okay, I need to check it in detail.
[2:04:51] Speaker 1: I believe you.
[2:04:54] Speaker 3: What, Marty, you need I need to check this.
[2:04:59] Speaker 10: Read this again.
[2:05:01] Speaker 1: I can. I can read it again for you. Yeah.
[2:05:04] Speaker 1: It says, let people then consider what they recreated from.
[2:05:07] Speaker 1: They were created from a spurting fluid stemming from between
[2:05:11] Speaker 1: the backbone and the rib cage. That's the spurting fluid.
[2:05:14] Speaker 1: Is you know what.
[2:05:17] Speaker 6: You know?
[2:05:17] Speaker 10: When mm hmm okay.
[2:05:20] Speaker 3: In America College Okay.
[2:05:23] Speaker 16: Okay, I need to go. You know, thank you for
[2:05:26] Speaker 16: your time. Then maybe again.
[2:05:31] Speaker 1: All right, it's good talking to your time traveler. Take care.
[2:05:37] Speaker 3: Uh you know what there were there were too middle
[2:05:39] Speaker 3: school dances. Really and I wouldn't say traumatized me, but
[2:05:44] Speaker 3: I learned later how absolutely horrendous it was because when
[2:05:49] Speaker 3: I was a middle schooler and they would play yeah
[2:05:52] Speaker 3: by Usher and Little John and uh ludicrous and they
[2:05:57] Speaker 3: say skeet in that song about three hundred times, and
[2:06:01] Speaker 3: we had no idea what that meant. And then I
[2:06:04] Speaker 3: grew up and I learned what that meant. I was like,
[2:06:06] Speaker 3: wait a minute, we said that at middle school dances
[2:06:09] Speaker 3: over and over and over that if that wasn't bad enough,
[2:06:14] Speaker 3: Cotton eyed Joe. Does anybody know what cotton eyed Joe
[2:06:18] Speaker 3: means or what the words actually are. It's so incredibly bad,
[2:06:22] Speaker 3: so cotton eight Joe. Yeah, well i'll make it, I'll
[2:06:28] Speaker 3: make it roughly appropriate. But cotton eye Joe is a
[2:06:31] Speaker 3: description of it's either gone rhea or syphilis. So the
[2:06:37] Speaker 3: lyrics to the song are, if it hadn't been for
[2:06:40] Speaker 3: cotton eyede Joe, I'd been married a long time ago,
[2:06:44] Speaker 3: Where did you come from Where did you go? Where
[2:06:47] Speaker 3: did you come from? Cotton eye Joe? Because the symptoms
[2:06:49] Speaker 3: come and go. And what's a cotton eye Joe? Well,
[2:06:52] Speaker 3: cotton is like spit. It's the color of spit, which
[2:06:56] Speaker 3: is the color of puss. And the eye and the joe.
[2:07:00] Speaker 3: I think we can put that all together. That's what
[2:07:02] Speaker 3: we were fucking. We would hook arms and spinning circles,
[2:07:05] Speaker 3: going and sing that song as middle schoolers, and that's
[2:07:10] Speaker 3: what we were talking about, and nobody knew.
[2:07:13] Speaker 1: Like, I feel like we need to do a new, revised,
[2:07:20] Speaker 1: standard edition of Cotton Eye Joe in the modern tongue.
[2:07:24] Speaker 1: I'm willing to I'll call on the holy provisions of
[2:07:28] Speaker 1: Doug to do an updated song of that hymn.
[2:07:33] Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not making somebody just said the beat slaps,
[2:07:37] Speaker 3: though it does. That's the that's the problem.
[2:07:41] Speaker 10: Now.
[2:07:42] Speaker 1: That's all I can think about is a bunch of
[2:07:44] Speaker 1: teenagers running around singing about gonorrhea. That's yeah, that's something.
[2:07:50] Speaker 1: But if you ever needed.
[2:07:53] Speaker 3: Ignorance is bliss has never been more true.
[2:07:58] Speaker 1: Well, you know, if you want to keep the young
[2:08:00] Speaker 1: kids from getting gone, re uh, teach them about it early.
[2:08:04] Speaker 1: Show them what could happen if you fuck around and
[2:08:07] Speaker 1: find out bad things.
[2:08:12] Speaker 3: Uh yeah, yeah, very much. In other words, don't go
[2:08:15] Speaker 3: to school in the Bible Belt.
[2:08:17] Speaker 1: Well, oh my gosh. Yeah, and please go to a
[2:08:20] Speaker 1: school that actually teaches sex. Said, let me go a
[2:08:23] Speaker 1: couple of.
[2:08:24] Speaker 3: I hate for that to be where I end, but
[2:08:26] Speaker 3: I am going to have to dip out on that note.
[2:08:29] Speaker 1: Sorry everybody, Well, thank you so much for joining us.
[2:08:34] Speaker 1: Eric Man, it's good to hear from you. Thank you.
[2:08:38] Speaker 6: Welcome.
[2:08:38] Speaker 1: Make sure you're already following Planet Peterson. If you're not,
[2:08:41] Speaker 1: I can't imagine somebody following me is not already following you.
[2:08:44] Speaker 1: But make sure you're following Patt Peterson and get his
[2:08:46] Speaker 1: new book.
[2:08:47] Speaker 3: It's available Yes facts cern Tree true link on my profile.
[2:08:54] Speaker 1: Our brother, have a great night later, big w for
[2:08:59] Speaker 1: Plan Peterson and m You're welcome to hang out with me.
[2:09:04] Speaker 1: I'm gonna grab our next guest. In a couple of superchats,
[2:09:07] Speaker 1: Saint Barnabas says, Doug is the singularity that binds the universe.
[2:09:11] Speaker 1: You're right, listen, Doug is in the shape of a zero.
[2:09:15] Speaker 1: Have you ever seen Doug? He's basically a zero. He
[2:09:17] Speaker 1: is singularity and Dave Lewis says, my god, my God,
[2:09:21] Speaker 1: why have you foreskinned me? That's a great reference to
[2:09:25] Speaker 1: the super chat earlier. Oh my gosh, mostly Gizzard's good
[2:09:30] Speaker 1: to see it. Thank you so much for the tonight
[2:09:32] Speaker 1: of Superchat, says I would love to hear both of
[2:09:34] Speaker 1: your thoughts on the reason for the curse of Ham
[2:09:37] Speaker 1: and why it is that he pointed his mom. So
[2:09:41] Speaker 1: my position on the Curse of Ham has been because
[2:09:45] Speaker 1: we have a really interesting passage in Leviticus twenty and
[2:09:48] Speaker 1: Leviticus eighteen referring to what it means to uncover the
[2:09:56] Speaker 1: In the book, it uses the phrase nakedness as a
[2:10:00] Speaker 1: euphemism for, you know, doing the thing quite often, and
[2:10:06] Speaker 1: so it's been mentioned by a lot of scholars that
[2:10:10] Speaker 1: what's probably happening here is that he is doing the
[2:10:14] Speaker 1: deed with somebody, and the question is with who. And
[2:10:17] Speaker 1: if you read Leviticus, and it says that you shall
[2:10:21] Speaker 1: not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife or your mother,
[2:10:28] Speaker 1: because it is your father's nakedness, which is a really
[2:10:31] Speaker 1: interesting statement. He's basically saying uncovering the nakedness of your
[2:10:36] Speaker 1: mother is equivalent to uncovering the nakedness of your father,
[2:10:41] Speaker 1: which is why a lot of people have suggested that
[2:10:44] Speaker 1: what's actually happening is that, you know, Ham consummated with
[2:10:49] Speaker 1: his own mother, which is why Canaan was cursed because
[2:10:53] Speaker 1: Canaan theoretically was the offspring of Ham. And if Canaan
[2:10:57] Speaker 1: came from a curse lineage because of the incestuous union,
[2:11:03] Speaker 1: then you can see why they would be cursed. And
[2:11:05] Speaker 1: we have other stories in Genesis just like that, the
[2:11:08] Speaker 1: Amonites and the Moabites, they were cursed because a lot
[2:11:11] Speaker 1: slept with his two daughters. And there's another a number
[2:11:15] Speaker 1: of instances where people groups are essentially their origin stories
[2:11:20] Speaker 1: are really like negative. They paint the origin story in
[2:11:24] Speaker 1: a negative light in order to justify like cursing them
[2:11:29] Speaker 1: later so that we can come and invade their land.
[2:11:32] Speaker 1: To be sure, that's why Canaan was cursed in the text,
[2:11:36] Speaker 1: was to justify the Israelites taking over Canaan. That's what's happening.
[2:11:42] Speaker 1: But hopefully that answers your question. Mostly gizzards and let
[2:11:47] Speaker 1: me grab dastardly says, how did you deal with shaking
[2:11:50] Speaker 1: the indoctrination of religion and it being a part of
[2:11:54] Speaker 1: your life? I never really, never really bought in, but
[2:11:58] Speaker 1: it's hard to get away, get I get that.
[2:12:00] Speaker 6: Well.
[2:12:00] Speaker 1: I didn't do it on purpose, which is I think
[2:12:03] Speaker 1: the thing is for me. It happened gradually over time.
[2:12:06] Speaker 1: It was like death by a thousand paper cuts. So
[2:12:08] Speaker 1: it wasn't something that I had to do, like I
[2:12:10] Speaker 1: didn't like fall away from the faith and then had
[2:12:12] Speaker 1: to deconstruct. It just kind of happened, you know what
[2:12:16] Speaker 1: I mean. I just kind of woke up one day
[2:12:18] Speaker 1: and realized that after enough paper cuts, like there's nothing left,
[2:12:23] Speaker 1: you know. Sinker Sol, thank you for the supertest, says
[2:12:26] Speaker 1: a lot of people that commented on the Tempool video
[2:12:29] Speaker 1: need to make their way to your live stream and
[2:12:31] Speaker 1: recite the work. Yeah. I mean it's easy to be
[2:12:35] Speaker 1: a keyboard Warrior, but it's certainly not easy to get
[2:12:37] Speaker 1: into a live stream. But they know where to find me.
[2:12:41] Speaker 1: They're not going to be showing up though. And CJ says,
[2:12:44] Speaker 1: great to see you and Planet Peterson in the same
[2:12:46] Speaker 1: live Doug willing it will happen again. I know it
[2:12:48] Speaker 1: will happen again, Planet Peterson. I've got some epic team
[2:12:51] Speaker 1: ups coming in the future, so look forward to that.
[2:12:54] Speaker 1: And everlasting. Gobstepper says, fine tuning equals things would things
[2:12:58] Speaker 1: would be different if different. I don't think you're wrong.
[2:13:02] Speaker 1: That is kind of the essence of the fine tuning argument,
[2:13:05] Speaker 1: which is, you know you can give the opposite of that,
[2:13:07] Speaker 1: which is things are the way they are because they
[2:13:10] Speaker 1: are the way they are. You don't have the positive creator.
[2:13:13] Speaker 1: And Commando Crab says, without another universe to compare to,
[2:13:16] Speaker 1: there's no reason to assume these fine tuned elements of
[2:13:19] Speaker 1: the universe are free to vary at all. I agree. Actually,
[2:13:23] Speaker 1: that's kind of a position that I'm with you on.
[2:13:27] Speaker 1: It's like we are making tensative claims about science, but
[2:13:30] Speaker 1: we don't actually know the limits. We don't know what
[2:13:33] Speaker 1: is in another universe, so it's silly to make claims
[2:13:36] Speaker 1: about a possible another universe. And doctor Pizza says, just
[2:13:39] Speaker 1: look at the finely tuned trees full of entropy and thermodynamics.
[2:13:44] Speaker 1: The Lord has blessed us with everything as it is
[2:13:47] Speaker 1: instead of some other way. Yes, the entropy of the
[2:13:50] Speaker 1: trees I do have. Well, thank you for the super
[2:13:52] Speaker 1: doctor Pizza. I did have to look at the trees
[2:13:55] Speaker 1: counter up, and I took it down for a bit.
[2:13:57] Speaker 1: Are we at two or three at this point? I
[2:13:59] Speaker 1: think around three for the look at the trees counter.
[2:14:02] Speaker 1: Let me pop that up to three and we'll get
[2:14:05] Speaker 1: that set right. So we're up to three now, guys
[2:14:07] Speaker 1: of look at the trees. So let me grab our
[2:14:11] Speaker 1: let me grab our next guest, and we'll you know,
[2:14:13] Speaker 1: we'll keep on moving. Evan, thank you so much for
[2:14:17] Speaker 1: the super chat, big w Evan says h Turretapis dorny
[2:14:23] Speaker 1: a species of biological immortal jellyfish. If they are sick
[2:14:27] Speaker 1: or just old, they regenerate as juveniles. Why do God
[2:14:30] Speaker 1: make them immortal but make his special creation mortal? That's
[2:14:33] Speaker 1: actually a really good question. I'm so glad you brought
[2:14:35] Speaker 1: that up. I don't actually know about this jellyfish.
[2:14:37] Speaker 6: Now.
[2:14:38] Speaker 1: I want to know about the jellyfish. But it's a
[2:14:40] Speaker 1: little bit cruel that, like lower forms of life are
[2:14:45] Speaker 1: gonna be able to live indefinitely until they get eaten
[2:14:48] Speaker 1: by something else. Yet, you know, we're we're getting born
[2:14:53] Speaker 1: with bone cancer and cotton eye Joe. You know over here.
[2:15:00] Speaker 15: The head I guess who was talking about the that
[2:15:02] Speaker 15: we see a correlation between the mind and the brain.
[2:15:07] Speaker 15: I wanted to just sayd like a point that like
[2:15:10] Speaker 15: depending on where, but depending on the type of geological
[2:15:13] Speaker 15: problem you're having or mental problem you're having. For example,
[2:15:16] Speaker 15: if you're having problems understanding spoken speech or having a
[2:15:20] Speaker 15: problem like understanding a metaphor, you would be looking at
[2:15:23] Speaker 15: different points of the brain because again, each point of
[2:15:26] Speaker 15: the brain is compartmentalized for specific stuff. For example, the
[2:15:32] Speaker 15: if you're understanding written or spoken words, you would look
[2:15:34] Speaker 15: at the vernex area. If you're trying to understand metaphors,
[2:15:37] Speaker 15: you would look at the angler rus it like you
[2:15:41] Speaker 15: would have to affect these, like you can induce specific
[2:15:44] Speaker 15: mental states by destroying or affecting points of the brain.
[2:15:48] Speaker 15: So we have a cause effect relationship, not just the correlation.
[2:15:52] Speaker 6: Right.
[2:15:52] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really good point because like we can
[2:15:56] Speaker 1: manipulate the brain too and get different states of consciousness,
[2:16:01] Speaker 1: which would lead one to believe then that consciousness is
[2:16:04] Speaker 1: derivative of matter, not the other way around, Like if
[2:16:07] Speaker 1: we can alter it, Yeah, it seems.
[2:16:10] Speaker 15: Like it is more than a correlation, yes, right, And
[2:16:13] Speaker 15: if and when somebody has a specific condition and we
[2:16:16] Speaker 15: knew exactly which point of the breed is affected, then
[2:16:18] Speaker 15: again that is a clause effect relationship note to correlation.
[2:16:22] Speaker 1: Right right, all right, that guests dropped. We'll try again.
[2:16:25] Speaker 1: We're gonna keep bringing We're gonna get somebody that can
[2:16:27] Speaker 1: stick in the box. Marylyn, welcome in tonight. Marylynd says,
[2:16:33] Speaker 1: you are God sick. Well, thank you so much for
[2:16:36] Speaker 1: the encouragement, Maryland. We're going to do our best and
[2:16:40] Speaker 1: it's good to see in the house tonight. Optimist rhymes
[2:16:43] Speaker 1: in the house too, says Doug's bff is Skeeter. Yeah.
[2:16:51] Speaker 1: I mean, uh, Doug gets around guys, but he doesn't
[2:16:54] Speaker 1: have any cotton eye Joe. But this guess isn't connecting you.
[2:17:00] Speaker 1: I don't know if they were in the guest box
[2:17:01] Speaker 1: too long. We'll give them a second to connect to
[2:17:03] Speaker 1: see if they can connect or not. I don't want
[2:17:05] Speaker 1: to prematurely, you know, kick anyone off while they're trying
[2:17:10] Speaker 1: to connect. Fun Feel says thanks and praise to Doug.
[2:17:15] Speaker 1: That is all well, big w thank you for the
[2:17:17] Speaker 1: nine eight to nine super chat Feel Fun and hail
[2:17:20] Speaker 1: Doug the Rock of Salvation. This guess can't connect either.
[2:17:24] Speaker 1: We're just gonna keep on moving through. We're gonna keep
[2:17:27] Speaker 1: on moving through. We'll get somebody to connect. Looks like
[2:17:34] Speaker 1: Daddy Chad. That's a fun name this. I'm sure this
[2:17:38] Speaker 1: isn't a troll at all. Daddy Chad, do you have
[2:17:44] Speaker 1: any Wi Fi because you're having little trouble connecting. I
[2:17:46] Speaker 1: don't think it's on my end. I'm like physically plugged
[2:17:50] Speaker 1: into the router. Daddy Chad obviously is not here either. Okay,
[2:18:00] Speaker 1: keep on moving to the next one. All right? Uh,
[2:18:05] Speaker 1: next up is auto. It could be TikTok too. TikTok
[2:18:12] Speaker 1: might be malfunctioning. How you doing auto? Auto? Did you
[2:18:25] Speaker 1: request by accident? Auto? Do you know you're on a
[2:18:32] Speaker 1: live stream right now? Sneeze twice if you need help? Nothing, Okay,
[2:18:46] Speaker 1: move on to the next one. Blue Karma loocome in
[2:18:56] Speaker 1: Blue Blue. Hello, Blue dude, you get up here by
[2:19:05] Speaker 1: accident too? The Holy Spirit is completely lost tonight.
[2:19:11] Speaker 15: M When was it ever?
[2:19:15] Speaker 1: I definitely not sending their best, but we'll keep on moving,
[2:19:21] Speaker 1: all right, Well, Blue coming back. If you figure out
[2:19:23] Speaker 1: what's going on with your with your phone, we'll just
[2:19:26] Speaker 1: keep on moving. It's just kay good to see it tonight.
[2:19:28] Speaker 1: Thank you for the fin out of supertest Ys. Have
[2:19:30] Speaker 1: a lovely night. Justin well, kay, thank you so much,
[2:19:33] Speaker 1: and you have a lovely night as well. We're gonna
[2:19:36] Speaker 1: try to get somebody in the guest box, so we'll
[2:19:39] Speaker 1: keep on moving through. Uh, we do have two people
[2:19:42] Speaker 1: waiting on the YouTube cube, but typically when I have
[2:19:44] Speaker 1: a guest on TikTok, I try to bring people in
[2:19:46] Speaker 1: over TikTok so that so that we can we can
[2:19:51] Speaker 1: all talk together, you know.
[2:19:52] Speaker 5: What I mean.
[2:19:53] Speaker 15: You can bring them on and I can drop or
[2:19:55] Speaker 15: just stay them. It doesn't matter.
[2:19:57] Speaker 1: You're just chill. You'll be able to hear them. They
[2:19:58] Speaker 1: just won't be able to hear you. So we got
[2:20:01] Speaker 1: remiss with us. Give me a second to make sure.
[2:20:04] Speaker 5: Oh it's me.
[2:20:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, how are you doing remis?
[2:20:07] Speaker 17: Oh my god, yeah, I'm good.
[2:20:09] Speaker 1: Thank you remiss. Are you at least eighteen? And are
[2:20:13] Speaker 1: you a believer in some kind of a garden?
[2:20:16] Speaker 17: Okay? So I'm twenty one and I'm a former Christian.
[2:20:23] Speaker 1: Okay, are you something now?
[2:20:27] Speaker 17: Now, I'm just a complete atheist and I hate my
[2:20:31] Speaker 17: own card, which I believed in for like more or
[2:20:35] Speaker 17: less thirteen years or more.
[2:20:38] Speaker 1: I get that, I mean.
[2:20:41] Speaker 17: Yeah, Also, my name is pronounced Rasmus. Oh sorry person, Yeah,
[2:20:48] Speaker 17: it's fine. Also, I was wondering what was your name?
[2:20:55] Speaker 17: I couldn't find your name anywhere. Well, your name is
[2:20:58] Speaker 17: these constructions shown, But like I want to know, like
[2:21:01] Speaker 17: your Justin, Oh yeah, Justin.
[2:21:05] Speaker 11: Yeah.
[2:21:06] Speaker 17: And I also cannot hear anyone else, for example, so
[2:21:11] Speaker 17: I can only hear.
[2:21:12] Speaker 1: You, right, Yeah, I don't have a way of piping
[2:21:16] Speaker 1: M's audio to you. So what's in your mind?
[2:21:19] Speaker 16: Yeah?
[2:21:19] Speaker 17: I had like I wanted to talk a little bit
[2:21:22] Speaker 17: about my story and.
[2:21:26] Speaker 1: This is this is a debate stream. We're looking for
[2:21:29] Speaker 1: people to debate, you know.
[2:21:31] Speaker 17: Yeah, yeah, but I will be fast.
[2:21:33] Speaker 1: If we get storytellers out here, question, everyone's gonna leave. Yeah, like,
[2:21:40] Speaker 1: no one's hear your stories. I'm sure it's a delightful story.
[2:21:42] Speaker 1: I love a good story, but my my audience isn't
[2:21:46] Speaker 1: here for stories, you know.
[2:21:48] Speaker 17: Yeah, yeah, I understand, But like I I wanted to
[2:21:52] Speaker 17: just share that I I think religion in general, and
[2:22:00] Speaker 17: especially Christianity, is really damaging two people.
[2:22:04] Speaker 1: I agree, And.
[2:22:06] Speaker 17: What happened to me, for example, was almost that I
[2:22:10] Speaker 17: came to kill myself.
[2:22:12] Speaker 1: We can't use those words on this live stream, my friend.
[2:22:15] Speaker 5: Sorry, Okay, Yeah.
[2:22:17] Speaker 1: I'm really glad you're with us. I'm certainly glad you're
[2:22:19] Speaker 1: with us, but you're being streamed multiple platforms and those
[2:22:22] Speaker 1: those those types of conversations.
[2:22:25] Speaker 17: Okay, yeah, yeah, but I listen in Western.
[2:22:30] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[2:22:31] Speaker 17: I wanted to just know, what do you think I
[2:22:36] Speaker 17: heard you previously say that universe will after expanding, it
[2:22:43] Speaker 17: will go back into singularity or something like that, like
[2:22:48] Speaker 17: it will collapse into itself. Well, I just don't find
[2:22:52] Speaker 17: anything that supports that claim.
[2:22:54] Speaker 1: It's the Big Bang, Big Crunch model. Sean Carroll has
[2:22:57] Speaker 1: written about this. It's actually a pretty popular model. It
[2:23:01] Speaker 1: just essentially states that the expansion of the universe will
[2:23:04] Speaker 1: eventually slow down to the point where it reverses and
[2:23:07] Speaker 1: then everything will get sucked back in. Once upon a time,
[2:23:11] Speaker 1: they referred to it as the elastic universe. I think
[2:23:15] Speaker 1: right now they're just calling it the Big Bang, Big
[2:23:16] Speaker 1: Crunch model.
[2:23:18] Speaker 17: Yeah, but I was just wondering, do you like believe
[2:23:22] Speaker 17: in like the big crunch or like it will go
[2:23:27] Speaker 17: back to singularity because I don't understand singularity at all,
[2:23:30] Speaker 17: because I think if you put heat and density in
[2:23:34] Speaker 17: one point, it would basically become a black hole. So
[2:23:40] Speaker 17: I don't really understand that theory at all.
[2:23:42] Speaker 1: So well, I mean, singularity is just a way of
[2:23:46] Speaker 1: saying that at a certain point the mathematics breaks down.
[2:23:49] Speaker 1: Just like if I said, you know, here's a math formula,
[2:23:53] Speaker 1: but the math formula required you to divide by zero
[2:23:56] Speaker 1: to solve it. Well, you couldn't solve the math formula
[2:23:59] Speaker 1: because you can't divide by zero. It's a point in
[2:24:01] Speaker 1: which the mathematics breaks down. So that's what the singularity
[2:24:04] Speaker 1: is referring to. It's not saying that everything is in
[2:24:06] Speaker 1: a single point.
[2:24:08] Speaker 17: Okay, Okay, yeah, I see, I say, yeah, it's just
[2:24:12] Speaker 17: out of my reach. But thank you very much. I
[2:24:15] Speaker 17: really love your streams.
[2:24:17] Speaker 1: So thank you so much for supporting praise dog hell
[2:24:20] Speaker 1: dog dog. Yeah, cheers, friend. All right, we'll grab our
[2:24:29] Speaker 1: next guest in here. Looks like boo bop boo. How
[2:24:33] Speaker 1: are you doing.
[2:24:36] Speaker 6: Good? How are you Joseph?
[2:24:37] Speaker 1: All right, boo bop. I think we've spoken before, haven't we.
[2:24:44] Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely sure.
[2:24:47] Speaker 1: I kind of forget your position though. What's your position?
[2:24:53] Speaker 6: My position is the is uh it's uh, it's true
[2:24:59] Speaker 6: because the Bible's so oh cool?
[2:25:01] Speaker 1: All right, so can you substantiate that the Bible is
[2:25:04] Speaker 1: true and everything that says.
[2:25:09] Speaker 6: I mean, God can't lie and you can't. So basically
[2:25:20] Speaker 6: my viewpoint too on a lot of it too, is
[2:25:24] Speaker 6: like you're saying the Bible isn't true. But I would
[2:25:26] Speaker 6: rather trust people and know more than you from the
[2:25:30] Speaker 6: Bible that spoke of Christ.
[2:25:34] Speaker 1: So I don't care. This is not an appeal to authority.
[2:25:38] Speaker 1: Stage of course, my life just got restricted. Your life
[2:25:41] Speaker 1: contains themes that some might find uncomfortable. Yeah, oh well, whatever,
[2:25:46] Speaker 1: we'll keep wrong. Yeah that's adorable. And I would just
[2:25:49] Speaker 1: appeal to experts that you've never heard of to substantiate
[2:25:52] Speaker 1: my position. So did you have an actual argument or
[2:25:55] Speaker 1: did you want to appeal to authority?
[2:25:59] Speaker 6: What experts are you talking about?
[2:26:02] Speaker 1: Depends on what topic you want to talk about Christ?
[2:26:07] Speaker 6: Well, I mean the Old Testament definitely has prophecies of Jesus.
[2:26:15] Speaker 1: Sure, but find me one.
[2:26:20] Speaker 6: I mean, Hoseah is six one through two.
[2:26:23] Speaker 1: Hosea's six is not a prophecy. We actually just talked
[2:26:25] Speaker 1: about this, like, I don't know, a half hour ago,
[2:26:28] Speaker 1: you actually know you actually know who jose is talking about?
[2:26:31] Speaker 1: Do you know who he's writing to? Do you even
[2:26:33] Speaker 1: know his audience is?
[2:26:36] Speaker 6: Yep?
[2:26:37] Speaker 1: And what's about to happen to him?
[2:26:40] Speaker 6: They're about to die in exile.
[2:26:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, about to get wiped out. And who's gonna get
[2:26:45] Speaker 1: wiped out by him?
[2:26:46] Speaker 6: Yep, Well it really doesn't. It's not what I'm trying to.
[2:26:52] Speaker 6: My point is.
[2:26:52] Speaker 1: It's there, It's in chapter five, right, But I'm trying
[2:27:00] Speaker 1: to say, get wiped out by.
[2:27:03] Speaker 6: The Babylonians.
[2:27:04] Speaker 1: Nope, you're close though, but the Assyrians. Okay, okay, So
[2:27:14] Speaker 1: the judgment that is being cast upon these people is
[2:27:18] Speaker 1: the Assyrian armies that are going to come in and
[2:27:21] Speaker 1: wipe out the northern kingdoms, very similar to what we
[2:27:24] Speaker 1: read in Isaiah chapter seven. That's what the prophecy is about.
[2:27:28] Speaker 1: There's nothing to do. There's no Messiah mentioned in chapter six.
[2:27:34] Speaker 6: Right. But last time I talked to you, you said,
[2:27:37] Speaker 6: I mean, you know there's a significance of the third Day.
[2:27:42] Speaker 1: The third Day is significant and being all over the place,
[2:27:45] Speaker 1: not just in the Bible, but in the ancient Nearies
[2:27:47] Speaker 1: like this is this is a pretty common phrase.
[2:27:53] Speaker 6: But does it the Hebrew where to revive or make alive?
[2:27:56] Speaker 6: Doesn't that mean to bring someone back from the dead,
[2:27:58] Speaker 6: though when it's used there it can be.
[2:28:04] Speaker 1: Which is what Jeremiah says. Jeremiah says that they're going
[2:28:07] Speaker 1: to be cut off from the land of the living,
[2:28:11] Speaker 1: which is what happens.
[2:28:12] Speaker 6: Right.
[2:28:12] Speaker 1: But if you're talking off from the land of the living, yeah.
[2:28:16] Speaker 6: Right, right, But if you're talking to the Israelites about
[2:28:19] Speaker 6: the Assyrians, then why would they say that they're going
[2:28:22] Speaker 6: to bring the Israelites back from the dead.
[2:28:24] Speaker 1: No, the Assyrians aren't bringing them back from the dead.
[2:28:29] Speaker 6: No, I know. But okay, if you read that verse though, right,
[2:28:34] Speaker 6: I've read the verse. Yeah, you want to put it up, yeah, right.
[2:28:46] Speaker 1: Starts in chapter five. The prophecy is about the Assyrian
[2:28:51] Speaker 1: king coming and crushing them. Says, for I will be
[2:28:55] Speaker 1: like a lion to Ephraim, like a young lion to
[2:28:58] Speaker 1: the house of Judah, and I will tear and go away.
[2:29:01] Speaker 1: I will carry off, and no one shall rescue. I
[2:29:05] Speaker 1: will return again to my place until they acknowledge their
[2:29:08] Speaker 1: guilt and seek my face in their distress, they will
[2:29:11] Speaker 1: beg my favor. And then we get a new section
[2:29:15] Speaker 1: of the prophecy where it says, come, let us return
[2:29:18] Speaker 1: to the Lord, for it is he who has torn
[2:29:22] Speaker 1: and will heal us. The Lord God is the one
[2:29:27] Speaker 1: punishing the northern tribes. God is the one who's going
[2:29:31] Speaker 1: to revive them. The same what we find in the
[2:29:34] Speaker 1: rest of the prophets. Every single prophetic book that talks
[2:29:37] Speaker 1: about the Exilic period, whether it's the Assyrian or Bablon captivity,
[2:29:41] Speaker 1: also says that there's going to be a period of
[2:29:43] Speaker 1: restoration after this is not unique.
[2:29:48] Speaker 6: Right, Well, the Hebrew word literally to revive or make
[2:29:52] Speaker 6: alive used there literally means to bring someone back from
[2:29:55] Speaker 6: the dead. So isn't that obvious though, Like why would
[2:30:03] Speaker 6: why would? Why would not?
[2:30:04] Speaker 1: Actually obviously what you're trying to say, it says he
[2:30:09] Speaker 1: has struck us down? Is every single Israelite dead?
[2:30:18] Speaker 6: No?
[2:30:19] Speaker 1: Okay, did God strike down Israel?
[2:30:25] Speaker 6: Sometimes?
[2:30:26] Speaker 1: Yeah, he does. He strikes down Israel. He does it
[2:30:29] Speaker 1: with the Assyrian army. Right, what does it mean to
[2:30:31] Speaker 1: be struck down?
[2:30:36] Speaker 6: Uh?
[2:30:37] Speaker 1: Destroyed just means to be struck down like in battle,
[2:30:41] Speaker 1: been struck down. That's why it says after he strikes
[2:30:44] Speaker 1: them down, he will bind us up and then revive us,
[2:30:48] Speaker 1: bring us, bring us back to a stafe condition.
[2:30:53] Speaker 6: He didn't say that, but that's what the Hebrew word means.
[2:30:57] Speaker 1: There already established this last time I talk to you
[2:31:00] Speaker 1: actually don't know Hebrew.
[2:31:04] Speaker 6: Well, apparently neither do you. You don't even know what
[2:31:07] Speaker 6: the Hebrew word for revive or make a live even means.
[2:31:11] Speaker 6: So apparently you don't know Hebrew either.
[2:31:13] Speaker 1: I can probably guarantee it could be a form of haravan.
[2:31:19] Speaker 6: Well, look it up because you're wrong.
[2:31:21] Speaker 1: Oh, what is it? What's the word?
[2:31:24] Speaker 6: I don't know how to? I don't, I don't, I
[2:31:26] Speaker 6: don't know Hebrew.
[2:31:27] Speaker 1: I just well, what's what's the word to make what's
[2:31:29] Speaker 1: the word to make alive? What? What's the word for living?
[2:31:34] Speaker 1: It's caravas, That's that's what that's the word for living,
[2:31:36] Speaker 1: for living, to be me alive?
[2:31:41] Speaker 6: Right, But it means to bring someone back from the
[2:31:43] Speaker 6: dead when it's used in that specific verse. Do you
[2:31:47] Speaker 6: not understand that because you don't know Hebrews? You know
[2:31:49] Speaker 6: what I mean?
[2:31:49] Speaker 1: It's weird because mine doesn't say that. My translation doesn't
[2:31:52] Speaker 1: say bring us back from the dead. Isn't it weird?
[2:31:55] Speaker 1: It's almost like the It's almost like the guy who
[2:31:57] Speaker 1: actually studies and translated this passage knows it better than
[2:32:01] Speaker 1: you do.
[2:32:03] Speaker 6: Well, you're reading the English version. You're not reading straight
[2:32:07] Speaker 6: from Hebrew. Because you don't understand Hebrew. I do.
[2:32:09] Speaker 1: We already established this last time we talked.
[2:32:12] Speaker 6: Well, then why don't you just translate your own.
[2:32:14] Speaker 1: Bible because I don't need to.
[2:32:16] Speaker 6: Why are you even reading from Why why are you
[2:32:18] Speaker 6: even reading in English? If you already know Hebrew? Why
[2:32:21] Speaker 6: don't you just read to us in Hebrew?
[2:32:22] Speaker 1: I'm sorry because you guys don't know Hebrew.
[2:32:26] Speaker 6: See, that's you.
[2:32:27] Speaker 1: That's the way. That's the way these conversations work.
[2:32:31] Speaker 6: No, I'm saying though, but like you act like you
[2:32:33] Speaker 6: know Hebrew. But like if I put like if you
[2:32:36] Speaker 6: had a Hebrew Bible in front of you, you don't
[2:32:38] Speaker 6: know what you're looking at either.
[2:32:40] Speaker 1: So not only are not only are you wrong, but
[2:32:44] Speaker 1: the word that I said was probably there is the
[2:32:46] Speaker 1: fucking word that was there.
[2:32:48] Speaker 6: He will read us read someone back from the dead.
[2:32:51] Speaker 1: Comes from the root word cava. Okay, it's been conjugated.
[2:32:58] Speaker 1: It comes from the root word cava.
[2:33:02] Speaker 6: Right to bring someone back from the dead. No used
[2:33:06] Speaker 6: in that context.
[2:33:07] Speaker 1: No, you don't know Hebrew. We've established this. Oh, we've
[2:33:13] Speaker 1: established this both times that we've had this discussion. You
[2:33:16] Speaker 1: don't know any Hebrew. I actually went to school and
[2:33:19] Speaker 1: had to learn the language you didn't. So getting like
[2:33:23] Speaker 1: getting onto a live stream with a guy who actually
[2:33:25] Speaker 1: had to learn the language and just declaring that you
[2:33:28] Speaker 1: know the language better isn't going to look good for you.
[2:33:32] Speaker 1: You don't. You don't know the words, you don't know
[2:33:34] Speaker 1: the language. You didn't learn anything.
[2:33:37] Speaker 6: Either, do you, though, That's all I'm saying.
[2:33:39] Speaker 1: I do.
[2:33:42] Speaker 6: No, you you really don't.
[2:33:43] Speaker 1: Though I do. Yeah. The meaning of the word havah
[2:33:47] Speaker 1: means to live. Exactly what I said. I didn't even
[2:33:51] Speaker 1: have to look at the Hebrew text, and I told
[2:33:53] Speaker 1: you what Hebrew word was going to be in that text.
[2:33:55] Speaker 1: And the reason why I knew what Hebrew word was
[2:33:57] Speaker 1: going to be in that text because I went the
[2:33:59] Speaker 1: fuck in school and I learned Hebrew. You're up here
[2:34:02] Speaker 1: embarrassing yourself. You're making a spurious claim. You're making a
[2:34:08] Speaker 1: spurious claim about Hoseiah chapter six because there's one word
[2:34:13] Speaker 1: in the passage that reminds you of Jesus. It's not
[2:34:16] Speaker 1: how prophesies work. You actually have to look at the
[2:34:18] Speaker 1: context of the passage to know what is actually happening.
[2:34:24] Speaker 1: So to get embarrassed a second time because it sounds
[2:34:29] Speaker 1: like that's what you came to.
[2:34:30] Speaker 6: Do No, I came to you. I came to uh
[2:34:36] Speaker 6: to debate with you about the Bible. Is is that obvious?
[2:34:39] Speaker 1: It's obvious that you came up to be a clown,
[2:34:42] Speaker 1: which is what happened last time we talked. I remember
[2:34:44] Speaker 1: last time we talked. I recognize your voice because you've
[2:34:47] Speaker 1: had a very distinct voice, which is why I said,
[2:34:49] Speaker 1: I think we've talked before, and you were an asshole.
[2:34:52] Speaker 1: The first time you're here, you're an asshole. The second
[2:34:54] Speaker 1: time you're here.
[2:34:58] Speaker 6: All right, well, I forget you for calling me an asshole.
[2:35:02] Speaker 6: I'm just trying to debate the Bible with you. Great
[2:35:04] Speaker 6: and the last the last, the last argument you you
[2:35:08] Speaker 6: tried to pull up against me, where you twisted the
[2:35:10] Speaker 6: word promise was weak. So uh, I'm just trying to
[2:35:15] Speaker 6: prove to you that the Bible is infallible, and you
[2:35:17] Speaker 6: have yet to show me any wise in the Bible
[2:35:20] Speaker 6: the last time you could have you actually.
[2:35:23] Speaker 1: Never asked me to prove that, and that what I
[2:35:31] Speaker 1: talked about last time you were completely wrong, now that
[2:35:33] Speaker 1: I remember it. We talked about whether or not God
[2:35:35] Speaker 1: can change his mind, if I remember correctly, and we
[2:35:37] Speaker 1: went to Exos thirty two, and you crashed out on
[2:35:41] Speaker 1: Exos thirty.
[2:35:41] Speaker 6: You twisted it. I didn't know you twisted it.
[2:35:44] Speaker 1: It literally says, it literally says that God changed his mind,
[2:35:48] Speaker 1: which is exactly what happened. And then I took you
[2:35:51] Speaker 1: to the passage direct contradiction changed and it actually was
[2:35:55] Speaker 1: a contradiction, because that's how contradictions were. Contradictions were you
[2:35:59] Speaker 1: twist said. Contradictions work when one thing contradicts another, meaning
[2:36:04] Speaker 1: they both can't actually be true, only one of them
[2:36:06] Speaker 1: can be true. And that's exactly what I showed you.
[2:36:10] Speaker 6: You twisted the word promise.
[2:36:12] Speaker 1: I didn't.
[2:36:14] Speaker 6: Yeah, you definitely did.
[2:36:15] Speaker 1: No, I didn't. I looked at I looked it up,
[2:36:18] Speaker 1: and I read it in the dictionary for you twice, and.
[2:36:21] Speaker 6: You you, Yeah.
[2:36:22] Speaker 1: You disagreed with the dictionary, not with me. So if
[2:36:28] Speaker 1: you just came up here to crash out about getting
[2:36:30] Speaker 1: cooked the first time, I don't know if this is
[2:36:32] Speaker 1: going to go all too well for you. Did you
[2:36:34] Speaker 1: actually want to have an adult conversation about a new
[2:36:37] Speaker 1: topic or do you want me to cook you again
[2:36:39] Speaker 1: on the same topic we talked about before?
[2:36:44] Speaker 6: I mean, you never you never coached me on that
[2:36:47] Speaker 6: one but you were wrong.
[2:36:48] Speaker 1: But you're just too slow to realize it.
[2:36:53] Speaker 6: M M, yeah, do you think so? Yep? Really do
[2:36:58] Speaker 6: you think I'm really dumb? Yep?
[2:37:00] Speaker 1: You're a dullard?
[2:37:01] Speaker 6: Yeah, and you're super smart? Right?
[2:37:04] Speaker 1: And I never said I was smart about I'm smart
[2:37:06] Speaker 1: enough to know that you're dumb.
[2:37:08] Speaker 6: You know Hebrew?
[2:37:09] Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, we already established that. We've established that you
[2:37:12] Speaker 1: don't know Hebrew.
[2:37:13] Speaker 6: No, I'm just saying you're so smart you know Hebrew
[2:37:16] Speaker 6: and English.
[2:37:17] Speaker 1: Okay, So you just just came to cry.
[2:37:20] Speaker 6: Okay, no, no, what do you what do you want? What?
[2:37:24] Speaker 1: So again, I would love to have a substantive conversation
[2:37:29] Speaker 1: on like an actual topic rather than cry about what
[2:37:33] Speaker 1: happened the last time we had dialogue. Would you like
[2:37:36] Speaker 1: to actually dialogue about what the Bible says? Or do
[2:37:39] Speaker 1: you want to cry that you got cooked last time?
[2:37:45] Speaker 6: I want to have a dialogue about what the Bible says,
[2:37:48] Speaker 6: because it's.
[2:37:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, let's actually do that. Okay. So last time we
[2:37:53] Speaker 1: had this conversation, you said the Bible was infallible, and
[2:37:55] Speaker 1: we found things that are truly uninfallible about it.
[2:37:59] Speaker 6: So this time you lied.
[2:38:01] Speaker 1: No, I didn't lie. I read it straight from the dictionary.
[2:38:03] Speaker 1: You cried like a little bit. So now I'm going
[2:38:06] Speaker 1: to show you something i'dn't twist it. Have you got
[2:38:09] Speaker 1: your Bible with you? Go to First King, chapter six.
[2:38:15] Speaker 1: M all right, go ahead, in the four hundred and
[2:38:23] Speaker 1: eightieth year, after the Israelites came out of the land
[2:38:28] Speaker 1: verse one.
[2:38:28] Speaker 6: Obviously, Okay, yeah, well I had a version in the four.
[2:38:36] Speaker 1: Hundred and eightieth year after the Israelites came out of
[2:38:38] Speaker 1: the land of Egypt. In the fourth year of Solomon's
[2:38:40] Speaker 1: reign over Israel, in the month of zev which is
[2:38:43] Speaker 1: the second month he began to build the House of
[2:38:45] Speaker 1: the Lord. Practically, what year was Solomon building his house
[2:38:51] Speaker 1: or the temple?
[2:38:53] Speaker 6: Bright? Bright, I'm not gonna you know, I'm gonna make
[2:38:56] Speaker 6: me look dumb because I don't know. I'm gonna make
[2:38:59] Speaker 6: you you do.
[2:39:00] Speaker 1: I'm going to make you look dumb the whole we're talking.
[2:39:03] Speaker 6: I don't know the approximate year.
[2:39:04] Speaker 1: Justin it's about right.
[2:39:06] Speaker 6: I don't know the approximate year.
[2:39:07] Speaker 1: Roughly nine seventy to nine seventy five. Now the important question.
[2:39:12] Speaker 6: So you don't know the approximate year either, Oh.
[2:39:14] Speaker 1: No, nobody knows the exact year. I gave you the
[2:39:16] Speaker 1: approximate year nine to seventy years, you know death, So
[2:39:19] Speaker 1: nine seventy to nine seventy five is an approximation. It's
[2:39:23] Speaker 1: a period of five years. That's how the word works. Now,
[2:39:27] Speaker 1: I didn't bring that up because I was trying to
[2:39:28] Speaker 1: stump you. I brought that up because the important part
[2:39:31] Speaker 1: was says in the four hundred and eightieth year, after
[2:39:35] Speaker 1: the Israelites came out of the land of Egypt. That's
[2:39:37] Speaker 1: the part that I actually want to bring you to.
[2:39:40] Speaker 1: So what this is saying is that the Exodus happened
[2:39:43] Speaker 1: four hundred and eighty years prior to the building of
[2:39:46] Speaker 1: Solomon's temple.
[2:39:46] Speaker 6: Right, four hundred and eighty years prior to the building
[2:39:54] Speaker 6: of Sallom this temple. Yeah, okay, And is that in
[2:40:00] Speaker 6: the Bible.
[2:40:02] Speaker 1: We just read it in the four hundred and eightieth
[2:40:04] Speaker 1: year after the Israelites came out of the land of
[2:40:06] Speaker 1: each right, Right, So.
[2:40:09] Speaker 6: It says, what are your sources?
[2:40:12] Speaker 1: It says there are four hundred and eighty years between
[2:40:16] Speaker 1: the exodus event and the building of the temple.
[2:40:18] Speaker 6: Right, Well, you're bringing up sources that are in the Bible.
[2:40:23] Speaker 6: So I didn't bring up.
[2:40:24] Speaker 1: A single source that from outside the Bible.
[2:40:26] Speaker 6: Yet, okay, then where is it in the Bible about
[2:40:30] Speaker 6: the your Solomon's Temple was built?
[2:40:32] Speaker 1: Because we know when Solomon's Temple was built, because we
[2:40:34] Speaker 1: can date the invasion of Judah by the Babylonians to
[2:40:38] Speaker 1: six oh five BCE. That's when the Battle of Karkamish happened.
[2:40:41] Speaker 1: That was the first incursion into the land. And we
[2:40:44] Speaker 1: have the genealogies in the Bible of all the kings
[2:40:47] Speaker 1: from that time period going back all the way back
[2:40:49] Speaker 1: to David. So we actually have a very solid biblical
[2:40:52] Speaker 1: timeline from using the Bible and correlating it with Egyptian, Babylonian,
[2:40:57] Speaker 1: and Assyrian texts. So the dating of Solomon's Temple isn't
[2:41:01] Speaker 1: something that's brilliant. Question and what are your sources the Bible?
[2:41:10] Speaker 6: No, you're saying you have approximation of dates. What are
[2:41:13] Speaker 6: your sources for those dates the Bible? Right? But I
[2:41:19] Speaker 6: just asked you.
[2:41:20] Speaker 1: The Bible tells you, as you said, the Bible tells
[2:41:23] Speaker 1: you who was ruling and when they were ruling, and
[2:41:26] Speaker 1: how long they're ruled for. So all you have to
[2:41:29] Speaker 1: do is correlate it to the actual events on the
[2:41:31] Speaker 1: timeline that we.
[2:41:32] Speaker 6: Know about, so you can't correlate it for me, I
[2:41:37] Speaker 6: can't go It's okay if you don't know. No, I
[2:41:39] Speaker 6: do know. I do know. What I'm saying is, Oh,
[2:41:42] Speaker 6: it's okay.
[2:41:43] Speaker 1: I do know. What I'm saying is I'm not going
[2:41:45] Speaker 1: to go through the Bible and add up every person's
[2:41:48] Speaker 1: individual age and individual reign that gets you to the
[2:41:52] Speaker 1: year nine seventy. I could just point you to a
[2:41:55] Speaker 1: Christian timeline. So this book is The Annals of the
[2:42:19] Speaker 1: World by Bishop Usher, and Bishop Busher actually believes that
[2:42:24] Speaker 1: the timeline is the same. So if you go to
[2:42:27] Speaker 1: the Annals of the World by Bishop Usher, he correlates
[2:42:30] Speaker 1: the timeline of the Bible.
[2:42:33] Speaker 6: I thought we were talking.
[2:42:35] Speaker 1: He coordinates the timeline of the Bible with the other
[2:42:38] Speaker 1: timelines that we know about. So he takes the correlative
[2:42:41] Speaker 1: data of what the Bible says and compares it to
[2:42:45] Speaker 1: what is in the Babylonian literature and the Greek literature
[2:42:48] Speaker 1: and everything else. So like when it talks about say
[2:42:52] Speaker 1: like Nebuknezar doing something, well, he goes through and he
[2:42:58] Speaker 1: takes all the texts from Babel that talk about Nebukanezer
[2:43:01] Speaker 1: and lines them up on a timeline with what the
[2:43:04] Speaker 1: Bible says. That's how history works, right, So in this
[2:43:09] Speaker 1: particular timeline, I'm sure what we'll find is in about
[2:43:13] Speaker 1: nine to seventy we'll find the building of Solomon's temple.
[2:43:16] Speaker 1: In fact, if you give me a second, I'm almost there.
[2:43:18] Speaker 1: I'm in the year one thousand. There's one thousand under
[2:43:24] Speaker 1: one thousand, okay, And then in the year nineteen seventy
[2:43:29] Speaker 1: five we've got ray Boham. Let's see, that's just a
[2:43:33] Speaker 1: little bit after Solomon. So let me turn back a page.
[2:43:38] Speaker 1: Let's see.
[2:43:39] Speaker 6: There we go.
[2:43:39] Speaker 1: Now, according to Bishop Usher, a bishop who correlated the
[2:43:46] Speaker 1: biblical data in the year well, I don't know if
[2:43:51] Speaker 1: he's Anglican or now. Let me see where he came from.
[2:44:00] Speaker 1: I have to tell you later what denomination he comes from,
[2:44:03] Speaker 1: because I don't really remember where he came from.
[2:44:07] Speaker 6: You don't know.
[2:44:08] Speaker 1: Well, as it turns out, I didn't do a biography
[2:44:10] Speaker 1: on the guy.
[2:44:12] Speaker 6: I'm sorry, you said, Bishop Usher, he's a bishop.
[2:44:17] Speaker 1: He's a bishop in his denomination, yeah, okay. And he
[2:44:21] Speaker 1: tracks down the building of solomon Temple between at least
[2:44:25] Speaker 1: the year one thousand and the nine seventies, so he's
[2:44:28] Speaker 1: got she Shank ruling in nine seventy eight. He's Egyptian
[2:44:34] Speaker 1: and he's mentioned in the Book of Second Kings. Let's
[2:44:37] Speaker 1: see if he's got the starting date for the Solomon's Temple.
[2:44:41] Speaker 1: So Solomon's reign he's got listed as one thousand and
[2:44:45] Speaker 1: five BC, and the eleventh year of Solomon's reign, in
[2:44:48] Speaker 1: the eighth month called Bull, the temple and its furnishings
[2:44:51] Speaker 1: were completed. So he's got the temple completion around the
[2:44:55] Speaker 1: year one thousand, which is pretty damn close to what
[2:44:58] Speaker 1: modern scholars put, which is around nine to seventy, So
[2:45:02] Speaker 1: between Bishop Usher and between what modern scholars say the
[2:45:07] Speaker 1: temple built by Solomon is roughly between ninety seventy and
[2:45:12] Speaker 1: one thousand. So it's almost know that it's almost like
[2:45:16] Speaker 1: you've never know that for sure. It's almost like you've
[2:45:18] Speaker 1: never studied any It's almost like you've never studied any
[2:45:22] Speaker 1: history whatsoever. Because if you actually had studied history, you
[2:45:26] Speaker 1: would know how they're adding up these dates. And I
[2:45:28] Speaker 1: already described to you how they're coming up with these dates.
[2:45:31] Speaker 1: We know for a fact, we have historical, archaeological records
[2:45:35] Speaker 1: from when the incursions happened between the Babylonians and between
[2:45:40] Speaker 1: the Israelites and even with the Assyrians. Salomon's Temple was
[2:45:44] Speaker 1: built roughly nine to seventy It's just a historical fact.
[2:45:49] Speaker 1: If you're too slow for this, just say so we
[2:45:51] Speaker 1: can move on to something else. Do you have any
[2:45:54] Speaker 1: document at all that would refute that Salomon's Temple was
[2:45:58] Speaker 1: built in a different time period?
[2:46:00] Speaker 6: Okay, justin you use the same argument for saying when
[2:46:05] Speaker 6: I say Jesus rose from the dead, you say, oh,
[2:46:09] Speaker 6: so what NERO rose from the dead? Right, So if
[2:46:14] Speaker 6: we're going off your sources, then why should I believe
[2:46:17] Speaker 6: Bishop Usher. I don't care what Bishop Usher says. I
[2:46:20] Speaker 6: care what the Bible says. And you're not going to
[2:46:23] Speaker 6: disprove the Bible is what Bishop Usher says. Bible or historians,
[2:46:27] Speaker 6: I don't care what they say.
[2:46:28] Speaker 1: The Bible was the document that was used to come
[2:46:31] Speaker 1: up with those years. That's what I'm trying to tell you.
[2:46:35] Speaker 1: If you just add up the actual ages of the
[2:46:38] Speaker 1: people in the Bible, you can come to the point
[2:46:40] Speaker 1: where you know when the temple was built. That's why
[2:46:43] Speaker 1: we've got a whole timeline in the Wikipedia page that
[2:46:48] Speaker 1: tells you the correlative events when it was dedicated, when
[2:46:52] Speaker 1: it was destroyed. Who was destroyed by We've got she
[2:46:56] Speaker 1: Shank again listed in the same time period, about nine
[2:46:59] Speaker 1: twenty six. It's the same as Bishop Usher. As it
[2:47:02] Speaker 1: turns out, history is pretty clear on how this works.
[2:47:06] Speaker 1: It seems like you're the only one having a struggle here.
[2:47:09] Speaker 1: But I understand that, like facts, logic and history are
[2:47:12] Speaker 1: difficult for some people. So we can we can go
[2:47:15] Speaker 1: on to a better contradiction that doesn't require you to
[2:47:18] Speaker 1: say that all historians and like even the Bible are
[2:47:22] Speaker 1: wrong about like what happened in history. That's fine, we
[2:47:25] Speaker 1: can we can move on to a simpler one for
[2:47:27] Speaker 1: your smooth brain. All right, let's let's try. Let's see
[2:47:32] Speaker 1: what haven't we done in a while. Yeah, let's talk
[2:47:36] Speaker 1: about circumcision. So uh boombo circumcision in the New Jerusalem?
[2:47:42] Speaker 1: Will people need to be circumcised?
[2:47:44] Speaker 6: Yeah?
[2:47:46] Speaker 1: No, oh no they won't.
[2:47:49] Speaker 6: No, have you read a Zekeo question? Have you read collations?
[2:47:56] Speaker 1: I have? What does Ezekiel say?
[2:48:00] Speaker 6: It says you must be circumcised with the heart and
[2:48:01] Speaker 6: the flesh.
[2:48:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, what does it mean to be circumcised in the flesh.
[2:48:07] Speaker 6: Well, he's talking.
[2:48:10] Speaker 1: It's weird, Like I almost asked a question, what does
[2:48:12] Speaker 1: it mean to be circumcised in the flesh?
[2:48:17] Speaker 6: Justin? It's a picture of what Christ did.
[2:48:20] Speaker 1: Just say what it means? What does it mean to
[2:48:22] Speaker 1: be circumcised in the flesh?
[2:48:23] Speaker 6: Okay, it's a circumcision of the heart Jeremiah seventeen nine.
[2:48:26] Speaker 6: The heart is the seaful above all things, and desperately wicked.
[2:48:28] Speaker 6: Who can know it? Right?
[2:48:29] Speaker 1: I'm talking about the flesh? What does it mean to
[2:48:31] Speaker 1: be circumcised in?
[2:48:32] Speaker 6: I know, I understand you're talking about I understand you're
[2:48:34] Speaker 6: talking about the flesh, Justin, and what he.
[2:48:36] Speaker 1: What I'm going to need you to do is actually
[2:48:37] Speaker 1: answer the question and stop being a pivoting perry. So
[2:48:41] Speaker 1: the question was what does it mean to be circumcised
[2:48:45] Speaker 1: in the flesh?
[2:48:47] Speaker 6: What he's talking about there is talking about our sinful nature,
[2:48:51] Speaker 6: our old bodies.
[2:48:52] Speaker 1: It's funny.
[2:48:55] Speaker 6: Are passed away.
[2:48:56] Speaker 1: We're in Ezekiel for I don't care because everything so
[2:49:01] Speaker 1: ezeki forty four. I'll just put it on the screen
[2:49:03] Speaker 1: so I know you haven't read it. It's okay, does
[2:49:06] Speaker 1: say it? The Lord God? No foreigner uncircumcised in heart
[2:49:10] Speaker 1: or flesh, mine sets and but the Hebrew conjunction is
[2:49:13] Speaker 1: the same. It's or or, and of all the foreigners
[2:49:16] Speaker 1: who are among the people of Israel shall enter my sanctuary.
[2:49:19] Speaker 1: So God says, when the New Jerusalem comes, no foreigner
[2:49:23] Speaker 1: is going to be entering the sanctuary unless they're circumcised
[2:49:27] Speaker 1: in the flesh and in the heart. Now, according to
[2:49:31] Speaker 1: the Old Testament, what does it mean to be circumcised
[2:49:34] Speaker 1: in the flesh?
[2:49:36] Speaker 6: Go toss too, I know what Claus says.
[2:49:39] Speaker 1: I'm asking you what does it mean in the Old Testament?
[2:49:41] Speaker 6: Be okay if you're not going to if you're trying, you.
[2:49:45] Speaker 1: Try this again. I know it's really inconvenient, and you'll
[2:49:48] Speaker 1: want to dodge all of my questions because you're a coward.
[2:49:52] Speaker 1: But in the Old Testament, what does it mean to
[2:49:55] Speaker 1: be circumcised in the flesh? What does it mean?
[2:50:03] Speaker 6: Circumcision of the flesh. What he's referring to there is
[2:50:06] Speaker 6: in collusions to eleven.
[2:50:07] Speaker 1: I'm asking you, in the Old Testament, what does it mean?
[2:50:12] Speaker 6: It could have multiple meetings justin.
[2:50:14] Speaker 1: Show me where it means anything other than getting your
[2:50:16] Speaker 1: snip tipped or your your tip snipped.
[2:50:20] Speaker 6: And I'm telling you to go to Couss two eleven
[2:50:22] Speaker 6: through fifteen says.
[2:50:25] Speaker 1: I'm asking you, in the Old Testament, show me a
[2:50:27] Speaker 1: passage where it means something other than getting your thing snipped.
[2:50:33] Speaker 6: And I'm telling you that it explains it in cautions.
[2:50:36] Speaker 1: Colautions is not in the Old Testament. This is why
[2:50:39] Speaker 1: you're a dullard. I said in the book, show me
[2:50:43] Speaker 1: in the Old Testament where circumcision of the flesh means
[2:50:47] Speaker 1: something other than being circumcised in your penis.
[2:50:52] Speaker 6: And I'm telling you to go to a verse that
[2:50:55] Speaker 6: explains it in the one book though.
[2:50:57] Speaker 1: And I'm going to stop you every single time, because
[2:51:00] Speaker 1: that's not an answer to my question. My question is,
[2:51:03] Speaker 1: can you find me a passage in the Old Testament
[2:51:06] Speaker 1: that says something that means circumcision of the flesh is
[2:51:10] Speaker 1: something other than circumcision of the flesh. You haven't given
[2:51:13] Speaker 1: me a reason to care what the New Testament says yet.
[2:51:18] Speaker 6: Talking about the New Jerusalem.
[2:51:20] Speaker 1: You still crashing out. So are you ever going to
[2:51:22] Speaker 1: answer the question? It was a very easy question, which
[2:51:25] Speaker 1: is can you show me a passage in the Old
[2:51:29] Speaker 1: Testament where circumcision of the flesh means something other than
[2:51:33] Speaker 1: circumcision in the flesh.
[2:51:36] Speaker 6: If you don't get it, that's fine, I do get it.
[2:51:38] Speaker 1: You don't understand, you're just too much of a dullard.
[2:51:41] Speaker 1: Mac Thank you so much for all the face pain.
[2:51:44] Speaker 1: I really appreciate that. Imagine having this level of cognitive
[2:51:48] Speaker 1: dissonance where you not only have to lie to yourself
[2:51:51] Speaker 1: about what the text actually means, but you're willing to
[2:51:54] Speaker 1: get up and publicly embarrass yourself on a stage of
[2:51:58] Speaker 1: don't what have we got tonight? We've got two thousand
[2:52:01] Speaker 1: people in here are watching you get absolutely roasted. It
[2:52:04] Speaker 1: is embarrassing, all right, So we'll move on to the
[2:52:07] Speaker 1: next one, now that I cooked you on that one.
[2:52:09] Speaker 1: In first key, you.
[2:52:10] Speaker 6: Don't understand five, It says, you don't get it.
[2:52:12] Speaker 1: David did what was right in the sight of the
[2:52:15] Speaker 1: Lord and did not turn aside from anything that he
[2:52:18] Speaker 1: commanded him all the days of his life, except for
[2:52:21] Speaker 1: the matter or matter of your ride the hit tight.
[2:52:23] Speaker 1: What does that text mean.
[2:52:27] Speaker 6: We're talking about We're talking about David, right.
[2:52:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, says because David did what was right in the
[2:52:32] Speaker 1: sight of the Lord, did not turn aside from anything
[2:52:35] Speaker 1: that he commanded him all the days of his life,
[2:52:37] Speaker 1: except in the matter of your ride. The hit tite.
[2:52:41] Speaker 6: Was David a shepherd?
[2:52:44] Speaker 1: David was a shepherd. But the question is what.
[2:52:47] Speaker 6: Is being said? No, I'm asking David was a king.
[2:52:54] Speaker 1: I'm asking you about the meaning.
[2:52:56] Speaker 6: He's not talking about Christ.
[2:52:57] Speaker 1: Of what's being said here says David did what was
[2:53:00] Speaker 1: right in the sight of the Lord and did not
[2:53:03] Speaker 1: turn aside from anything that he commanded him all the
[2:53:06] Speaker 1: days of his life, except in the matter of your Riya.
[2:53:09] Speaker 1: The hit tite, What is the author of this text
[2:53:11] Speaker 1: trying to communicate?
[2:53:15] Speaker 6: Well, why don't you tell me what you think first?
[2:53:18] Speaker 6: It's actually smart.
[2:53:19] Speaker 1: Quite clear. It's just a summary statement about how David
[2:53:23] Speaker 1: didn't turn away from any of the commands of God,
[2:53:26] Speaker 1: didn't disobey God, didn't commit all these sins accept concerning
[2:53:32] Speaker 1: the matter of your Riya the hit type. Is there
[2:53:37] Speaker 1: a word there that I?
[2:53:38] Speaker 6: Okay, So what do you get what's the problem?
[2:53:41] Speaker 1: I do get it. I'm asking you if that's a
[2:53:44] Speaker 1: cogent explanation for what's happening in the text. Mac, thank
[2:53:52] Speaker 1: you so much for all the cranes and IK five
[2:53:54] Speaker 1: to five, thank you so much. For the cranes as well.
[2:53:56] Speaker 1: Big w guys, thank you so much for supporting the channel.
[2:54:00] Speaker 1: I know this guy's uhurfunk.
[2:54:06] Speaker 6: So the question, what's your question? I get it.
[2:54:09] Speaker 1: My question is very simple. You still haven't answered the question.
[2:54:12] Speaker 1: I'm waiting for the answer, which is what is the
[2:54:16] Speaker 1: message of First Kings fifteen to five. What is it saying?
[2:54:23] Speaker 6: It's saying that David obey God. Besides your eye of
[2:54:27] Speaker 6: the hit tie. Is it not obvious?
[2:54:28] Speaker 1: I think it is obvious, and I have to get
[2:54:30] Speaker 1: you to agree to it before you start lying on
[2:54:33] Speaker 1: what I'm about to read next. So the basic meaning
[2:54:35] Speaker 1: of the text then would would demand that David wasn't
[2:54:39] Speaker 1: committing a bunch of sins outside of the ride the
[2:54:42] Speaker 1: Hittite situation right.
[2:54:49] Speaker 18: Go to the other I mean, go to what you
[2:54:52] Speaker 18: want to, not until you answer that according to the.
[2:54:55] Speaker 19: Tech, according to the text, at that time, at that time,
[2:54:59] Speaker 19: right at that time, he obeyed God except for your
[2:55:03] Speaker 19: ayah the Hittite verse.
[2:55:06] Speaker 1: He's dead. When this verse versus is about his post Martin,
[2:55:12] Speaker 1: this is David did what was right in the past tense.
[2:55:15] Speaker 1: David did what was right in the sight of the Lord,
[2:55:17] Speaker 1: and did not turn aside from anything that he commanded
[2:55:19] Speaker 1: him all the days of his life. Okay, So now
[2:55:21] Speaker 1: what I shouldn't be doing is be able to go
[2:55:24] Speaker 1: into the Old Testament and find a bunch of passages
[2:55:27] Speaker 1: where David did actually turn aside from the commands of God, right.
[2:55:34] Speaker 6: Those, I mean there are different times, though, So I
[2:55:39] Speaker 6: like that specific.
[2:55:40] Speaker 1: First is a declarative statement. You already agreed, he already
[2:55:46] Speaker 1: said in First Kings chapter fifteen. It's stating that David
[2:55:51] Speaker 1: did not disobey the commands of God except in the
[2:55:54] Speaker 1: matter concerning Bathsheba and your Iam.
[2:55:59] Speaker 6: Okay, yeah, he he committed adultery and murder, right, what
[2:56:03] Speaker 6: don't you get?
[2:56:03] Speaker 1: And he obeyed and outside of that issue he obeyed God,
[2:56:07] Speaker 1: right Okay.
[2:56:10] Speaker 6: Now, no, it didn't.
[2:56:12] Speaker 1: Say he tried to. He said he did. Either did
[2:56:15] Speaker 1: or he didn't.
[2:56:15] Speaker 6: Okay, Well, he could have repented of his other sins.
[2:56:21] Speaker 6: And then when it was talking about that specific verse.
[2:56:23] Speaker 1: Didn't say, look at him trying to justify it. He's
[2:56:27] Speaker 1: even before he even lets me cook him on the passage.
[2:56:29] Speaker 1: He already knows I've got two passages maybe three that's
[2:56:32] Speaker 1: going to cook him on it. And he's already trying
[2:56:34] Speaker 1: to twist himself into a putzel before he gets cooked.
[2:56:36] Speaker 6: Are you excited? You're excited.
[2:56:38] Speaker 1: I'm really excited to watch you get embarrassed together. I
[2:56:41] Speaker 1: can tell the nervous is making my day. I'm getting
[2:56:44] Speaker 1: I'm getting excited just thinking about it. Actually, right now,
[2:56:47] Speaker 1: you imagine actually getting on the live and getting cooked
[2:56:51] Speaker 1: so bad that you have to laugh to yourself while
[2:56:53] Speaker 1: no one else is laughing with you. Okay, so we
[2:56:55] Speaker 1: both agree. This passage is talking about David saying that
[2:56:59] Speaker 1: he did not disobey the commands of God. He didn't
[2:57:02] Speaker 1: do it. The only time he disobeyed the commands of
[2:57:04] Speaker 1: God is concerning Bathsheba and Ryam. The problem is, if
[2:57:09] Speaker 1: you go to First Samuel twenty one, it says exactly
[2:57:12] Speaker 1: the opposite of that said, David came to Nab to
[2:57:15] Speaker 1: the priest a Himelek, and Ahimelek came trembling to meet
[2:57:18] Speaker 1: David and said to him, why are you alone and
[2:57:20] Speaker 1: no one with you? David said to the priest a Himelek,
[2:57:23] Speaker 1: the king has charged me with the matter, and said
[2:57:26] Speaker 1: to me, no one must know anything of the matter
[2:57:29] Speaker 1: which I send you, with which I have charged you,
[2:57:32] Speaker 1: which that never happened. That's a lie. That's the first
[2:57:35] Speaker 1: problem he lied. He broke one of the ten commandments.
[2:57:37] Speaker 1: Then it says I have made an appointment with the
[2:57:40] Speaker 1: young men for such a place. Now, then what have
[2:57:43] Speaker 1: you on hand? Give me five loaves of bread or
[2:57:46] Speaker 1: whatever is here. The priest answered David, I have no
[2:57:49] Speaker 1: ordinary bread at hand, only the Holy bread, provided that
[2:57:52] Speaker 1: the young men have kept themselves from women. And David
[2:57:55] Speaker 1: answered the priest, indeed, women have been kept from us
[2:57:58] Speaker 1: always when I go on an expedition. The vessels of
[2:58:02] Speaker 1: the young men are holy, even when it is a
[2:58:04] Speaker 1: common journey. How much more today will their vessels be holy?
[2:58:09] Speaker 1: So the priest gave him the holy bread, for there
[2:58:11] Speaker 1: was no bread except for the bread of presents, which
[2:58:14] Speaker 1: is removed from before the Lord to replace the hot
[2:58:18] Speaker 1: bread on the day in which it has taken away.
[2:58:20] Speaker 1: Now are you aware that there is a law given
[2:58:24] Speaker 1: by God saying that only the priest can eat this bread?
[2:58:31] Speaker 6: Absolutely? And Jesus referred to that in the New Testament.
[2:58:35] Speaker 1: Yep twenty.
[2:58:38] Speaker 6: Yep.
[2:58:39] Speaker 1: Okay, so did David.
[2:58:41] Speaker 6: That's whole picture.
[2:58:42] Speaker 1: So did David disobey the commands of God?
[2:58:53] Speaker 6: If you want to get technical, Yeah, okay, there was
[2:58:55] Speaker 6: a reason for.
[2:58:58] Speaker 1: Cool.
[2:58:58] Speaker 6: We got a contradiction, so they were hungry.
[2:59:00] Speaker 1: In first chapter twenty one, not only did he disobey
[2:59:05] Speaker 1: the command not to eat the holy bread, but he
[2:59:07] Speaker 1: also lied because Saul didn't send him anywhere. Saul was
[2:59:10] Speaker 1: seeking to kill him, so he lied and he ate bread,
[2:59:16] Speaker 1: which means he did turn away from the commands of God.
[2:59:22] Speaker 6: Okay, so what's your point. My point is God forgave them.
[2:59:26] Speaker 6: The text is God forgave them.
[2:59:27] Speaker 1: The text is in contradiction. That's what a contradiction is.
[2:59:31] Speaker 6: And how do we know what I mean? It's not
[2:59:33] Speaker 6: a contradiction because he repented of it. He repented of it.
[2:59:39] Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if he repented. It said that he
[2:59:41] Speaker 1: didn't disobey any of the commands of God except for
[2:59:44] Speaker 1: the matter concerning you ride the Hittite. And then we
[2:59:46] Speaker 1: go into the text and he clearly does. He does
[2:59:48] Speaker 1: it again in Second Samuel, chapter three, verse fourteen, it
[2:59:53] Speaker 1: says David first, let me. David sent messengers to Saul
[3:00:00] Speaker 1: son ishba Al saying give me my wife McCall, to
[3:00:03] Speaker 1: whom I became engaged at the price of one hundred
[3:00:06] Speaker 1: four skins of the Philistines. Are you aware that in
[3:00:09] Speaker 1: Deuteronomy twenty four, once somebody like once you no longer
[3:00:14] Speaker 1: have your wife and another man sleeps with her, you're
[3:00:16] Speaker 1: not supposed to take her back because you're defiling your bed. Yep, okay,
[3:00:23] Speaker 1: So why do we find are taking his wife back
[3:00:26] Speaker 1: after she's gone off and married another man.
[3:00:33] Speaker 6: Well, what's the context.
[3:00:35] Speaker 1: The context is that he wanted his wife back. He
[3:00:39] Speaker 1: had a wife, he lost the wife, then he wanted
[3:00:42] Speaker 1: the wife back, which is a violation of Deuteronomy twenty four.
[3:00:47] Speaker 1: A woman is not supposed to go back to her
[3:00:48] Speaker 1: prior husband after she's become defiled by another husband.
[3:00:56] Speaker 6: So what's your point in all this?
[3:00:59] Speaker 1: My point is it's just more contradiction. I'll read you
[3:01:02] Speaker 1: another one. There's another contradiction in tewod Samuel chapter twenty
[3:01:06] Speaker 1: four says afterward David was stricken to the heart because
[3:01:11] Speaker 1: he had numbered the people. And David said to the Lord,
[3:01:14] Speaker 1: I have sinned greatly in what I have done, But
[3:01:17] Speaker 1: now I pray to you take away the guilt of
[3:01:19] Speaker 1: your servant. So here David is admitting that he sinned
[3:01:23] Speaker 1: against God. So it turns out that David did turn
[3:01:29] Speaker 1: away from the commands of God and that First King
[3:01:32] Speaker 1: Chapter fifteen was just wrong. It's an error. Oops.
[3:01:38] Speaker 6: I mean, I don't think it's an error, but you
[3:01:41] Speaker 6: can look at it like that. That's fine.
[3:01:42] Speaker 1: It's a contradiction. They can't both be true.
[3:01:45] Speaker 6: No, Okay, well, David was counted righteous in the New Testament.
[3:01:52] Speaker 1: I don't care.
[3:01:53] Speaker 6: So if you're counted right, well, I know you don't
[3:01:57] Speaker 6: care about the New Testament because you hate cry. But
[3:02:00] Speaker 6: what I'm saying is is David.
[3:02:03] Speaker 1: He can't demonstrate that his Messiah is real. Imagine and
[3:02:12] Speaker 1: being like so insecure in your belief system that you
[3:02:15] Speaker 1: have to get up on a stranger's live and act
[3:02:18] Speaker 1: like a jackass.
[3:02:22] Speaker 6: Oh you think I'm a jackass?
[3:02:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, you're really making Christ proud tonight. When I was
[3:02:31] Speaker 1: a Christian and I was dialoguing with atheists, I was
[3:02:34] Speaker 1: the most polite person you've ever seen in your life
[3:02:37] Speaker 1: because I knew that I actually wanted people to come
[3:02:40] Speaker 1: to Christ and acting like a dipshit wasn't going to
[3:02:43] Speaker 1: do it. You're not helping your case. You're not helping
[3:02:46] Speaker 1: a single person come to your religion. What you're doing
[3:02:49] Speaker 1: is demonstrating the vileness of your religion and the types
[3:02:53] Speaker 1: of jackass threy that it creates. Also, great word thunder,
[3:02:56] Speaker 1: I appreciate. I'm going to use jackassy for now.
[3:03:00] Speaker 6: What have I done this vile?
[3:03:01] Speaker 1: You want to see more things that are wrong in
[3:03:03] Speaker 1: your book?
[3:03:05] Speaker 6: What have I done this vile?
[3:03:06] Speaker 1: You're just an asshole?
[3:03:09] Speaker 6: Oh? Okay, good one. But uh as far as like
[3:03:14] Speaker 6: me telling you like, oh, you're atheist like I've heard,
[3:03:17] Speaker 6: you're sitting here calling Jesus a fraud. You're calling Jesus
[3:03:20] Speaker 6: a liar?
[3:03:21] Speaker 5: He is?
[3:03:22] Speaker 6: And then what sore Jesus line? Jesus didn't lie.
[3:03:29] Speaker 1: Want me to show you where he did.
[3:03:32] Speaker 6: He didn't lie. It's I mean, you can think he
[3:03:34] Speaker 6: did because you want a twist scripture, But he didn't lie.
[3:03:37] Speaker 1: No, sure, I'll cook you on the Jesus lies. Now,
[3:03:39] Speaker 1: don't worry.
[3:03:41] Speaker 6: You haven't I actually.
[3:03:46] Speaker 1: No one cares. Uh So let me go to the
[3:03:49] Speaker 1: lies told by Jesus real quick. One second. I think
[3:03:53] Speaker 1: I'm gonna go, probably with the Book of John first.
[3:03:56] Speaker 1: I think that's my favorite. You know, Jesus lie. Let
[3:04:00] Speaker 1: me grab that real quick. I'll put it on the screen.
[3:04:05] Speaker 1: M hmmm. Where did I put that document? No document
[3:04:19] Speaker 1: moved whatever. All right, we're gonna go to John one eighteen,
[3:04:27] Speaker 1: and I think you'll see the problem with John one
[3:04:29] Speaker 1: eighteen basically as soon as we read it. So John
[3:04:34] Speaker 1: one eighteen, Jesus says, no one has ever seen God.
[3:04:38] Speaker 1: It is only the Son himself, God, who is close
[3:04:43] Speaker 1: to the Father's heart, who has made him known. So
[3:04:46] Speaker 1: based on Jesus's words, is it safe to assume that
[3:04:49] Speaker 1: nobody has seen God?
[3:04:55] Speaker 6: Yeah? I mean you could go to the Old Testament.
[3:04:57] Speaker 6: We're talking about them, you know, conversing with God. Do that.
[3:05:00] Speaker 6: And I I personally believe that in the Old Testament
[3:05:05] Speaker 6: when it's talking about them having conversations with God face
[3:05:09] Speaker 6: to face and all that stuff, just like the Angel
[3:05:11] Speaker 6: of the Lord, I believe they're actually talking to the
[3:05:13] Speaker 6: preincardinate Christ Adable. But the question is whether or not
[3:05:18] Speaker 6: because Jesus is Godd, well, they've seen Jesus.
[3:05:22] Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, So then Jesus lied on himself. Jesus says,
[3:05:25] Speaker 1: no one has ever seen God, and if he's God,
[3:05:27] Speaker 1: that means no one's ever seen him. But he literally
[3:05:30] Speaker 1: said that if you've seen me, you've seen the Father,
[3:05:32] Speaker 1: which means he contradicted himself. I didn't even have to
[3:05:36] Speaker 1: go to the old time.
[3:05:37] Speaker 5: You don't understand Jesus, do not get it?
[3:05:39] Speaker 6: Statement crazy, Well, you don't get the you don't get
[3:05:43] Speaker 6: the Trinity, So how would you understand anything?
[3:05:45] Speaker 1: Jesus even have to go to the Old Testament for
[3:05:47] Speaker 1: this one? He cooked himself. He also says that, get it,
[3:05:51] Speaker 1: though no man has ascended into heaven. Do you think
[3:05:54] Speaker 1: that's true? That no man has ever ascended into heaven?
[3:06:01] Speaker 6: No man has ever ascended into heaven?
[3:06:03] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[3:06:06] Speaker 6: But christ yep, I agree.
[3:06:08] Speaker 1: That's that's what the text says. It says no one
[3:06:10] Speaker 1: has ascended except for the one who descended from heaven,
[3:06:14] Speaker 1: the son of Man. Okay, so what I shouldn't be
[3:06:16] Speaker 1: able to do is go into the Old Testament and
[3:06:18] Speaker 1: find situations where people ascended into heaven? Should I?
[3:06:23] Speaker 6: Yeah? Go ahead? Sure?
[3:06:25] Speaker 1: Have you ever read are you talking about Enoch story
[3:06:28] Speaker 1: of Elijah?
[3:06:30] Speaker 6: Yeah? Forah and what happens to him? He gets taken away,
[3:06:37] Speaker 6: he gets raptured, Yeah, in a.
[3:06:38] Speaker 1: In a whirlwind. Right, and where does he go?
[3:06:44] Speaker 6: Mm? To heaven?
[3:06:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, to heaven. It's almost like it's almost like Jesus did.
[3:06:49] Speaker 6: He said, ascended. He said, ascended to heave.
[3:06:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how you go to heaven.
[3:06:55] Speaker 6: It says the Lord you get. Now, when the Lord
[3:06:57] Speaker 6: you get.
[3:06:58] Speaker 1: When the Lord was about to take Elijah up to
[3:07:00] Speaker 1: Heaven by a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their
[3:07:03] Speaker 1: way from Gilgal. Elijah said to Elishah, stay here, for
[3:07:06] Speaker 1: the Lord has sent me as far as Bethel. But
[3:07:09] Speaker 1: Elijah said, as the Lord lives, and as you yourself live,
[3:07:12] Speaker 1: I will not leave you. So they went down to
[3:07:14] Speaker 1: Bethel the company of the prophets. Sorry, we need to
[3:07:17] Speaker 1: get further down there. We go chapter to eleven. As
[3:07:22] Speaker 1: they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire and
[3:07:25] Speaker 1: horses of fire separated the two of them, and Elijah
[3:07:29] Speaker 1: ascended in a whirlwind into Heaven.
[3:07:37] Speaker 6: Okay, so what point are you trying to make?
[3:07:41] Speaker 1: Jesus says, No one into heaven except.
[3:07:44] Speaker 6: For said he said, no man has descended into heaven.
[3:07:50] Speaker 1: Sorry, is Elijah a man?
[3:07:54] Speaker 6: No? Not at that time you wanted to get to heaven.
[3:07:57] Speaker 1: He's still alive Elijah. Okay, but what I'm saying does
[3:08:02] Speaker 1: not die in the book.
[3:08:05] Speaker 6: I understand that he's going to be one of the
[3:08:07] Speaker 6: two witnesses in Revelation. That's why I get it.
[3:08:09] Speaker 1: That's why it says he's going to come back in
[3:08:11] Speaker 1: Malachi chapter four, because he's still alive, right, Okay, So
[3:08:17] Speaker 1: he didn't die, you know where it says that he
[3:08:19] Speaker 1: ascended in a whirlwind into heaven. He ascended into heaven. Cool?
[3:08:27] Speaker 6: Okay? Cool?
[3:08:30] Speaker 1: So Jesus is wrong?
[3:08:31] Speaker 6: So what like? I mean, I don't I don't think
[3:08:37] Speaker 6: Jesus lied about anything, but well you can.
[3:08:40] Speaker 1: You literally just read when he said something that clearly
[3:08:43] Speaker 1: wasn't true, says no one has ascended into heaven, no one,
[3:08:49] Speaker 1: John three thirteen.
[3:08:50] Speaker 6: Okay, but what okay, but we could be talking about
[3:08:53] Speaker 6: different levels of heaven. We could be talking about like Paradise.
[3:08:58] Speaker 6: I mean, there's so many different meetings.
[3:09:00] Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Elijah floating around in the clouds right now.
[3:09:07] Speaker 6: I don't like, I don't know where Elijah is right now.
[3:09:10] Speaker 1: Do you well which layer of heaven is he?
[3:09:15] Speaker 6: I don't know? Do you know?
[3:09:17] Speaker 1: Well, he's obviously not in the layer of heaven that
[3:09:20] Speaker 1: you think he's in, because he'd be visible right now.
[3:09:23] Speaker 1: And also it's true that in the Hebrew Bible, the
[3:09:26] Speaker 1: heavens was just the skies. They believed, all the gods,
[3:09:29] Speaker 1: everything was just up in the sky, just below the firmament.
[3:09:34] Speaker 1: There's no such thing as like in a universe far
[3:09:37] Speaker 1: away ouse.
[3:09:43] Speaker 6: You know so much about this, Yep, what's called? What scholar?
[3:09:48] Speaker 6: Do you? Did? You read that from?
[3:09:50] Speaker 1: You can read it in John.
[3:09:50] Speaker 6: Is that your own personal personal thoughts?
[3:09:52] Speaker 1: You can read it in John Walton, Klaus Westerman. Also
[3:09:56] Speaker 1: Michael Heiser talks about it. Kenneth Matthew Use mentions it
[3:10:01] Speaker 1: pretty much all scholars on Bynesis agree with me. So
[3:10:05] Speaker 1: you're cool out of luck right here.
[3:10:08] Speaker 6: So, no, they've been to heaven.
[3:10:10] Speaker 1: Question is that whether or not they went to heaven.
[3:10:11] Speaker 1: The question is whether or not they understand what the
[3:10:13] Speaker 1: text is talking about when it says heaven the word
[3:10:16] Speaker 1: for heaven and Hebrew hashamayam is just the skies, the sky,
[3:10:20] Speaker 1: that's it. And it's below the dome, it's below the rakia.
[3:10:26] Speaker 6: Okay, So you don't even believe in heaven.
[3:10:28] Speaker 1: Do you know what the Dunning Krueger effect is?
[3:10:32] Speaker 6: Uh? No, tell me.
[3:10:34] Speaker 1: The Dunning Krueger effect is what happens when people are
[3:10:38] Speaker 1: so incredibly unintelligent. That they think that they're actually really intelligent.
[3:10:43] Speaker 1: It's a really interesting metric that sociologists know about. I
[3:10:47] Speaker 1: think you might be pretty high on that spectrum.
[3:10:51] Speaker 6: Does that apply to you as well or just me?
[3:10:53] Speaker 1: Just you?
[3:10:56] Speaker 6: Have you read Hebrews? What's your IQ man?
[3:11:01] Speaker 1: I have no idea. I don't think IQ tests mean
[3:11:03] Speaker 1: anything cool Hebrews nine twenty two. Indeed, under the law,
[3:11:10] Speaker 1: almost everything is purified with blood. Without the shedding of blood,
[3:11:13] Speaker 1: there's no forgiveness of sins. Does that mean that there's
[3:11:17] Speaker 1: no forgiveness of sins unless you shed blood?
[3:11:22] Speaker 6: Oh? There are times you got the same dumb examples
[3:11:25] Speaker 6: every time, many.
[3:11:27] Speaker 1: That you can't rea any of them. If they were
[3:11:30] Speaker 1: so dumb, you should.
[3:11:32] Speaker 6: I refuted some last time, and I haven't studied up
[3:11:35] Speaker 6: on some of the stuff. Yeah I did.
[3:11:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, cooked last time. You're getting cooked.
[3:11:38] Speaker 6: Oka, Then let's go there again. Let's go there again.
[3:11:41] Speaker 6: Then I'll cook you on it.
[3:11:43] Speaker 1: We'll go there after this one. I'll cook you on
[3:11:45] Speaker 1: this one. I'll cook you on whatever you want to
[3:11:47] Speaker 1: get cooked.
[3:11:47] Speaker 6: You just can't admit when you're wrong.
[3:11:51] Speaker 1: No, you're just too dumb to know when you're wrong.
[3:11:53] Speaker 1: So Hebrews nine twenty two says without the shedding of blood,
[3:11:57] Speaker 1: there is no forgiveness of sins. Is that a true statement?
[3:12:02] Speaker 6: And I've said before Christ was the lamp slain from
[3:12:05] Speaker 6: the foundation of the world. The question is is it
[3:12:07] Speaker 6: a hard to understand.
[3:12:09] Speaker 1: It's not hard to understand. You're not answering my question.
[3:12:11] Speaker 1: My question is whether or not it's a true statement
[3:12:14] Speaker 1: that there's no forgiveness of sins without the shedding of blood.
[3:12:18] Speaker 6: Okay, if you can't afford it, they're going to bring
[3:12:21] Speaker 6: me to examples in the Old Testament.
[3:12:23] Speaker 1: The question is whether or not there is forgiveness without
[3:12:27] Speaker 1: the shedding of blood. It's a yes or no.
[3:12:30] Speaker 6: Without Jesus dying on the cross, there's no true forgiveness
[3:12:34] Speaker 6: that past.
[3:12:35] Speaker 1: President say anythingbout Jesus dying.
[3:12:38] Speaker 6: Are you are you? Are you feeling you finished?
[3:12:41] Speaker 1: To let me finish, because you're not actually addressing what
[3:12:45] Speaker 1: I'm talking about. I'm talking about what Hebrews nine twenty
[3:12:48] Speaker 1: two is saying, not what you want it to say.
[3:12:51] Speaker 6: It says, so you go to the New Testament.
[3:12:54] Speaker 1: Says, according to the law right, without the shedding of blood,
[3:12:58] Speaker 1: there's no forgiveness of sin. It was a simple yesswer
[3:13:01] Speaker 1: no question. Is it true that under the law there
[3:13:05] Speaker 1: is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood?
[3:13:12] Speaker 6: Absolutely okay.
[3:13:14] Speaker 1: So then I shouldn't be able to go into the
[3:13:16] Speaker 1: law and find instances where there's forgiveness of sins without
[3:13:19] Speaker 1: the shedding of blood.
[3:13:22] Speaker 6: But there's always been a shedding of blood from Genesis
[3:13:24] Speaker 6: to Revelation.
[3:13:25] Speaker 1: So I shouldn't be able to go into the Old
[3:13:27] Speaker 1: Testament and find instances where people are getting forgiven without
[3:13:30] Speaker 1: the shedding of blood? Should I?
[3:13:33] Speaker 6: No, you just don't understand it, And that's okay.
[3:13:35] Speaker 1: I do. It's okay if if you're too cowardly to
[3:13:39] Speaker 1: actually engage in honest dialogue with me. So I'll give
[3:13:42] Speaker 1: you one last chance to answer the question, should I
[3:13:46] Speaker 1: or should I not be able to go into the
[3:13:48] Speaker 1: Old Testament and find instances where God in the Law
[3:13:53] Speaker 1: says that you be you can be forgiven without any
[3:13:55] Speaker 1: shedding of blood.
[3:13:59] Speaker 6: There are what I'm trying to tell you.
[3:14:03] Speaker 1: That means Hebrews nine twenty two is wrong because Hebrew's
[3:14:06] Speaker 1: nine you're talking about how the law functioned, and it
[3:14:09] Speaker 1: says without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness
[3:14:12] Speaker 1: of sins.
[3:14:13] Speaker 6: He didn't say anything about and Christ fulfilled the law.
[3:14:15] Speaker 1: No he didn't.
[3:14:16] Speaker 6: And Christ fulfilled the law.
[3:14:17] Speaker 1: He certainly did not.
[3:14:18] Speaker 6: Of course he did.
[3:14:19] Speaker 1: He didn't.
[3:14:20] Speaker 6: Well, that's not what the New Testament says. So you're
[3:14:22] Speaker 6: just picking one.
[3:14:23] Speaker 1: Give a damn what the New Testament says about Jesus
[3:14:26] Speaker 1: until you could substantial Oh, sure that the New Testament
[3:14:29] Speaker 1: is true. I have no reason to believe the lies
[3:14:31] Speaker 1: in the New Testament. See, I've been demonstrating that literally
[3:14:35] Speaker 1: the entire time we've been talking. And last time we talked,
[3:14:38] Speaker 1: Jesus didn't fulfill a single prophecy. The New Testament contradicts
[3:14:41] Speaker 1: the Old Testament at every turn. Nobody has to die
[3:14:44] Speaker 1: to get your sins forgiven.
[3:14:49] Speaker 6: That's not true, though, it's true, because like I told
[3:14:52] Speaker 6: you last time, it's true.
[3:14:54] Speaker 1: I'll read it for you.
[3:14:54] Speaker 6: When after Adam and Eves sins he sacrificed an animal,
[3:14:59] Speaker 6: and hold them in righteousness that he.
[3:15:03] Speaker 1: Didn't sacrifice the animal, He just killed it and took
[3:15:05] Speaker 1: it for its leather. We already went over this. He
[3:15:06] Speaker 1: got cooked on that last time, and Leviticus said I'd
[3:15:10] Speaker 1: changed the subject too. If I was you right, he says,
[3:15:13] Speaker 1: if you cannot afford two turtle doves or two pigeons.
[3:15:16] Speaker 1: You shall bring as you're offering for sin that you
[3:15:18] Speaker 1: have committed one tenth of an ephah of choice. Flour
[3:15:21] Speaker 1: for a purification offering cool, So for your sin offering
[3:15:26] Speaker 1: you can just bring fine flour. So the question is
[3:15:29] Speaker 1: does flower bleed?
[3:15:33] Speaker 6: No? Well, no, flower doesn't bleed.
[3:15:35] Speaker 1: Okay, was this a sin offering?
[3:15:37] Speaker 6: Christ did? Christ did? And he was the land slain
[3:15:41] Speaker 6: for the foundation of the world. You get it.
[3:15:43] Speaker 1: That's adorable, I do get it. You're just wrong. So
[3:15:46] Speaker 1: Leviticus chapter five says that you can get your sins
[3:15:50] Speaker 1: forgiven without the shedding of blood, doesn't it?
[3:15:55] Speaker 6: Yeah? Absolutely, which means.
[3:15:57] Speaker 1: That contradicts Hebrews chapter nine twenty two.
[3:16:04] Speaker 6: I mean I don't think it does. But I mean,
[3:16:06] Speaker 6: if you're looking at it from your viewpoint, if you're
[3:16:10] Speaker 6: looking at it from the way you pusha.
[3:16:13] Speaker 1: Did we ever cover Juteronomy twenty two?
[3:16:18] Speaker 6: I don't know, man, you want to go there. I
[3:16:19] Speaker 6: don't think we have. Yeah.
[3:16:21] Speaker 1: I don't know if we got to get to this
[3:16:23] Speaker 1: point or not. So said Suppose a man marries a woman,
[3:16:26] Speaker 1: but after going into her, dislikes her and makes up
[3:16:29] Speaker 1: charges against her, slandering her by saying, I married this woman,
[3:16:33] Speaker 1: but when I lay with her, I did not find
[3:16:35] Speaker 1: evidence of her virginity. The father of the young woman
[3:16:37] Speaker 1: and her mother shall then submit the evidence of the
[3:16:40] Speaker 1: young woman's virginity to the elders of the city at
[3:16:43] Speaker 1: the gate. So this is a trial for not being
[3:16:47] Speaker 1: a virgin.
[3:16:47] Speaker 6: Right, obviously, what.
[3:16:54] Speaker 1: The young woman shall say to the elders, I gave
[3:16:57] Speaker 1: my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her.
[3:17:00] Speaker 1: Now he's made up charges against her, saying I did
[3:17:03] Speaker 1: not find evidence of your daughter's virginity. But here is
[3:17:07] Speaker 1: the evidence of my daughter virginity. Then they shall spread
[3:17:10] Speaker 1: out the cloth before the elders of the town, and
[3:17:12] Speaker 1: the elders of the town shall take the man and
[3:17:14] Speaker 1: punish him. Now if it happens to me that she
[3:17:18] Speaker 1: actually didn't bleed on the sheet, says, If, however, the
[3:17:21] Speaker 1: charge is true, that the evidence of the young woman's
[3:17:23] Speaker 1: virginity was not found, then they shall bring the young
[3:17:26] Speaker 1: woman out to the entrance of her father's house, and
[3:17:28] Speaker 1: the men of her town shall stone her to death
[3:17:30] Speaker 1: because she's committed a disgraceful act in Israel by prostituting
[3:17:33] Speaker 1: herself in her father's house. So if she doesn't bleed
[3:17:37] Speaker 1: on that sheet and they can't produce that sheet, she
[3:17:40] Speaker 1: gets stoned. Right, Yeah, cool? Are you aware that only
[3:17:47] Speaker 1: about forty five percent of women bleed the first time
[3:17:50] Speaker 1: and there's a significant number of women that don't even
[3:17:53] Speaker 1: have hymens.
[3:17:57] Speaker 6: I'm aware of that yet, So you're.
[3:17:59] Speaker 1: Cool with God? That would sentence about half of these
[3:18:02] Speaker 1: women to a death for a crime they never committed.
[3:18:07] Speaker 6: So you know that's what happened. Yeah, were you there?
[3:18:10] Speaker 1: That's what That's what the command is.
[3:18:12] Speaker 6: Were you were there?
[3:18:13] Speaker 1: I never said I was there? So this is this
[3:18:17] Speaker 1: is how things work, right God, God said to do it?
[3:18:22] Speaker 1: And I know that, Like, you're getting really like worked
[3:18:25] Speaker 1: up inside right now, and you don't actually have a
[3:18:27] Speaker 1: good defense for this. This is why you're saying stupid
[3:18:30] Speaker 1: things like were you there? God said this is what
[3:18:33] Speaker 1: you should do. Whether or not I was there to
[3:18:36] Speaker 1: see if they actually did it, is there irrelevant? The
[3:18:38] Speaker 1: question is is it okay for God to tell them
[3:18:42] Speaker 1: to do the thing?
[3:18:47] Speaker 6: I mean, because of the hardness of their hearts and
[3:18:49] Speaker 6: how stiff necked and rebellious they were. God was just
[3:18:53] Speaker 6: they basically, so God had Basically, do you know that happened?
[3:19:00] Speaker 6: For sure?
[3:19:01] Speaker 1: God said to do it? It doesn't matter if it happened
[3:19:03] Speaker 1: God said to do it. If I told my son, listen,
[3:19:05] Speaker 1: you can go to school and you can stab your
[3:19:08] Speaker 1: classmate in the eye with a pen, it doesn't matter
[3:19:10] Speaker 1: if he actually did it. What matters is I said
[3:19:12] Speaker 1: the fucking thing. So this has nothing to do with
[3:19:16] Speaker 1: whether or not you actually think it happened in history.
[3:19:19] Speaker 1: The question is whether or not what God is telling
[3:19:22] Speaker 1: you to do is moral.
[3:19:24] Speaker 6: Well, you have so many books. I was like, you
[3:19:27] Speaker 6: have a book that has you know the fact that
[3:19:30] Speaker 6: innocent women were stone And if they were, then why.
[3:19:35] Speaker 1: You know I do By the way, I promise if
[3:19:37] Speaker 1: you actually answer my question, we can get to the
[3:19:39] Speaker 1: evidence where women are being dragged before the court over
[3:19:42] Speaker 1: this particular matter. And also, we got a spammer in
[3:19:47] Speaker 1: the chat which I can't pronounce his name. It's sag
[3:19:51] Speaker 1: Da Salam. Listen, you're welcome to get into the You're
[3:19:55] Speaker 1: welcome to get into the guest box. No, I'll cook
[3:19:57] Speaker 1: you even worse than I cooked inspiring philosophy and him.
[3:20:01] Speaker 1: But I'm sure you too cowardly to actually do that.
[3:20:06] Speaker 1: I don't know why you're laughing. You're the one getting
[3:20:07] Speaker 1: mutilated over here, like you must be concussed at this point,
[3:20:11] Speaker 1: after the.
[3:20:12] Speaker 5: Beating that you've.
[3:20:13] Speaker 1: Been taking, like they need to put you. They needed
[3:20:17] Speaker 1: to put you in concussion protocol right now. So the
[3:20:21] Speaker 1: question is very easy. It doesn't matter if they ever
[3:20:23] Speaker 1: did it. The question is is the command moral? Now
[3:20:26] Speaker 1: you know the command's not moral, So now you're trying
[3:20:28] Speaker 1: to find like a reason why God would tell them
[3:20:32] Speaker 1: to do something that's in moral. So that's where we're
[3:20:34] Speaker 1: at in the conversation. I want to know what is
[3:20:37] Speaker 1: the reason why God would need them or command them
[3:20:41] Speaker 1: to execute innocent women? What's that purpose?
[3:20:45] Speaker 6: I already told you, did you not hear me? No?
[3:20:48] Speaker 1: I was probably talking over you, you said, because because
[3:20:53] Speaker 1: you said there was stiff naked, And then I followed
[3:20:55] Speaker 1: that up with a question which you obviously didn't hear.
[3:20:59] Speaker 1: So the quest question was what about them being stiff
[3:21:02] Speaker 1: naked requires God to kill innocent women?
[3:21:08] Speaker 6: Because He was actually trying to protect the.
[3:21:10] Speaker 1: Women by killing them.
[3:21:13] Speaker 6: No, No, because the Jews, the Israelite, the Jews, whatever,
[3:21:18] Speaker 6: they were bringing up false charges against probably every woman
[3:21:22] Speaker 6: that they slept with, and then God had to come
[3:21:24] Speaker 6: over with a protocol.
[3:21:26] Speaker 1: Oh is that in the books? Were you there?
[3:21:28] Speaker 6: Me? Finish?
[3:21:28] Speaker 1: Can you show me that?
[3:21:29] Speaker 6: Let me finish, show me that, show me in history,
[3:21:31] Speaker 6: finish where.
[3:21:32] Speaker 1: The Jewish people? Show me in history where the jobbish
[3:21:36] Speaker 1: people were literally bringing women up on false charges. And also,
[3:21:41] Speaker 1: even if they did, it still doesn't fix the problem.
[3:21:44] Speaker 1: The problem is that God says, if they don't bleed
[3:21:48] Speaker 1: on the sheet, you get to execute them. The condition
[3:21:52] Speaker 1: at which they find themselves at the trial is irrelevant.
[3:21:56] Speaker 1: The question is whether or not God's system of justice
[3:22:00] Speaker 1: is actual justice. Do you understand the problem?
[3:22:04] Speaker 6: He was trying to protect the women.
[3:22:06] Speaker 1: By having you understand innocently? Apparently you don't understand.
[3:22:10] Speaker 6: Do you know that for sure?
[3:22:12] Speaker 1: He tells?
[3:22:12] Speaker 6: And if they were, if they were innocent people? Innocent
[3:22:15] Speaker 6: people die all the time. What's your point? Also, you're
[3:22:18] Speaker 6: going the women.
[3:22:20] Speaker 1: By killing them. How do you protect somebody by killing them?
[3:22:22] Speaker 6: He didn't kill them that Jews they were falsely accusing
[3:22:25] Speaker 6: them were.
[3:22:26] Speaker 1: Do you think getting stoned is protection?
[3:22:30] Speaker 6: I think that if someone falsely accuses you of not
[3:22:33] Speaker 6: being a version after they sleep with you, then that's
[3:22:36] Speaker 6: one way to prevent it.
[3:22:38] Speaker 1: Well, you understand, I do understand that you're wrong, and
[3:22:42] Speaker 1: that you're too slow to understand the actual conversation.
[3:22:45] Speaker 6: You don't get it.
[3:22:46] Speaker 1: What it actually says is that she must be purged.
[3:22:51] Speaker 1: You shall purge the evil from Israel. This is not
[3:22:55] Speaker 1: protecting the women. This is purging the women. The women
[3:23:00] Speaker 1: that don't bleed are to be purged. There's nothing to
[3:23:03] Speaker 1: do with protecting the woman. If he wanted to protect
[3:23:06] Speaker 1: the women, what he should have said, if you suspect
[3:23:09] Speaker 1: that she's not actually a virgin on your wedding night,
[3:23:12] Speaker 1: then you can divorce her and get your bride pice,
[3:23:15] Speaker 1: your bride price back, because look what happens. If the
[3:23:18] Speaker 1: guy is found out lying. It says he doesn't get stoned.
[3:23:23] Speaker 1: It says they will find him one hundred checkles of silver,
[3:23:25] Speaker 1: which they shall give to the young woman's father because
[3:23:28] Speaker 1: he has slanted a virgin in Israel. So if he's
[3:23:31] Speaker 1: lying about the virginity, he gets fined. If it turns
[3:23:35] Speaker 1: out that she's not a virgin on faulty evidence, she
[3:23:38] Speaker 1: gets executed. This is not protection. This is now like
[3:23:43] Speaker 1: took a really weird dark twist into victim blaming. This
[3:23:49] Speaker 1: is embarrassing for you. Does your mother? Does your mother
[3:23:53] Speaker 1: know that you just.
[3:23:54] Speaker 6: Did you say that God? Did you just say that that? Oh,
[3:23:57] Speaker 6: God should have done this.
[3:24:00] Speaker 1: That is that it's not good to execute people based
[3:24:05] Speaker 1: on faulty evidence, and to say that God is protecting
[3:24:08] Speaker 1: them by having them executed in a brutal fashion based
[3:24:12] Speaker 1: on faulty evidence not a good argument. So uh be boop.
[3:24:18] Speaker 1: I have one last question for you, which is are
[3:24:20] Speaker 1: your parents still alive?
[3:24:24] Speaker 6: I don't know.
[3:24:25] Speaker 1: Make sure they don't get on the end, because you're
[3:24:28] Speaker 1: gonna embarrass your entire lineage. Don't let them see this video.
[3:24:32] Speaker 6: Oh you're so smart?
[3:24:34] Speaker 1: All right, Well, come back next week when you've looked
[3:24:38] Speaker 1: at my arguments and thought of really terrible answers for them.
[3:24:42] Speaker 1: All right, let's move on to our next guest. We've
[3:24:45] Speaker 1: got that was abunctious, wasn't he wild? But the problem is, like.
[3:24:52] Speaker 15: You don't speak Hebrew. It's literally the same thing loose
[3:24:55] Speaker 15: to it's just a whole like, oh, you do not
[3:24:58] Speaker 15: speak this language.
[3:25:00] Speaker 1: Right, could you imagine?
[3:25:05] Speaker 6: Oh?
[3:25:05] Speaker 1: Well, but listen when you get somebody that that is
[3:25:08] Speaker 1: so obnoxious here, I know they're obnoxious. Because here's why
[3:25:11] Speaker 1: I keep those people on the longest. I get it.
[3:25:15] Speaker 1: I know it's frustrating for some of the viewers, but
[3:25:18] Speaker 1: the thing is, if I spank him hard enough and
[3:25:21] Speaker 1: long enough, eventually somebody in his life is going to
[3:25:24] Speaker 1: find him on the internet and be like, hey, dude,
[3:25:27] Speaker 1: you get your ass kicked. What are you doing? What
[3:25:29] Speaker 1: is your brain? Okay? What is happening to you? Why
[3:25:32] Speaker 1: are you out on the internet getting cooked so badly?
[3:25:36] Speaker 1: So I, you know, I do it hopefully thinking that
[3:25:38] Speaker 1: like somebody in their life will will amend their ways
[3:25:43] Speaker 1: and be like, hey, listen, you're making a fool out
[3:25:45] Speaker 1: of yourself because sometimes you don't know. And I'll give you,
[3:25:49] Speaker 1: you know, really good advice that I got from one
[3:25:51] Speaker 1: of my brother's ones because we were talking about how like,
[3:25:54] Speaker 1: you shouldn't spend all of your time worrying about what
[3:25:57] Speaker 1: people think, and he said, but also, if everybody thinks
[3:26:01] Speaker 1: you're an asshole, you're probably an asshole. I thought that's
[3:26:03] Speaker 1: pretty good advice. You can't go around thinking what everyone
[3:26:06] Speaker 1: thinks about you, But if everyone that knows you thinks
[3:26:09] Speaker 1: you're an asshole, you're probably an asshole. All right, guys,
[3:26:15] Speaker 1: we're gon have some super chats. I'm so sorry I
[3:26:17] Speaker 1: got backed up on the superchats. Phil big w says,
[3:26:20] Speaker 1: I've been contemplating a Christianese reference list such as tension
[3:26:24] Speaker 1: in the text equals simply a contradiction. I'm discerning that
[3:26:30] Speaker 1: equals fake spiritual version of emotional intelligence. You're one hundred
[3:26:34] Speaker 1: percent right. And we used to get this when I
[3:26:37] Speaker 1: was at Bible College and the seminary. What they would
[3:26:40] Speaker 1: say is they would say, this course will challenge you,
[3:26:45] Speaker 1: meaning you're going to learn things that contradict what you
[3:26:48] Speaker 1: actually believe in your religion. And then the word you
[3:26:52] Speaker 1: brought up says tension in the text. That's exactly what
[3:26:55] Speaker 1: they'll use a higher education. They'll say, there seems to
[3:26:57] Speaker 1: be some tension between this text year in this text here,
[3:27:01] Speaker 1: because what they can't say is there is a contradiction
[3:27:05] Speaker 1: between these texts because they need you to stay enrolled.
[3:27:10] Speaker 1: Texas Pan and thank you somebody for the super chat
[3:27:13] Speaker 1: says glad you had a safe trip. Praise Doug for
[3:27:17] Speaker 1: keeping your plane aloft. Yeah, definitely, thank you so much.
[3:27:20] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Let me grab the next one. There's
[3:27:27] Speaker 1: a comment in here, I'm trying to read and I
[3:27:29] Speaker 1: can't tell what he's actually saying. Says you just frustrated
[3:27:34] Speaker 1: that seminar took your money with their cheap theology. I
[3:27:39] Speaker 1: don't know, mastermind. Can you clarify your comment? Because it
[3:27:43] Speaker 1: sounded interesting. I thought it was gonna be funny, and
[3:27:46] Speaker 1: then I got through it and I was like, oh,
[3:27:47] Speaker 1: I might not actually understand the comment, but I was
[3:27:49] Speaker 1: hoping for a good laugh. Ersman, Thank you for the
[3:27:52] Speaker 1: six sixty six. Hail Niro says, here is a trinity
[3:27:55] Speaker 1: of dollars. Explain how, and remember the words do not
[3:28:00] Speaker 1: mean words. Well, thank you so much for the sixty
[3:28:02] Speaker 1: sixty six. Its hold on six sixties okay, hold on,
[3:28:07] Speaker 1: you just blew my mind. Give me a second. Sixty
[3:28:10] Speaker 1: six is technically a form of the trinity. It's a
[3:28:13] Speaker 1: trinity of sixes as wild. That's wild. So Nero was
[3:28:18] Speaker 1: the Trinity, not Jesus. Jesus is not the Trinity. Nero
[3:28:22] Speaker 1: is the Trinity. Holy shit, guys, guy, we broke the
[3:28:25] Speaker 1: case wide open. Nero is the Messiah. Nero's the Messiah.
[3:28:31] Speaker 1: He's the Trinity. Holy shit, Johnny Burrios, thank you for
[3:28:35] Speaker 1: the six sixty six over cash a big w Johnny
[3:28:39] Speaker 1: Burrio's good to see you tonight, my friend, Thisten. Guys,
[3:28:41] Speaker 1: my mind has been blown now that I've just discovered
[3:28:44] Speaker 1: that this whole time the secret Messiah was Nero. I
[3:28:48] Speaker 1: thought I thought it was the Antichrist the whole time.
[3:28:51] Speaker 1: Eric Smith, thank you for the finout supertest, says, it's
[3:28:53] Speaker 1: estimated that there are twenty quadrillion ants on the earth.
[3:28:56] Speaker 1: If God fine tuned creation for anything, why would we
[3:28:59] Speaker 1: assume it's humans. It's such a good part answer smart too,
[3:29:06] Speaker 1: answer incredibly like adapt at problem solving and team buildings.
[3:29:11] Speaker 1: But if the earth is fine tuned for anything, it's
[3:29:14] Speaker 1: fine tuned for ant life. That's one hundred percent what
[3:29:17] Speaker 1: the Earth is fine tuned for.
[3:29:19] Speaker 15: You imagine it you Jesus, that movie the name Jesus.
[3:29:27] Speaker 1: H You can do AI video generation now and you
[3:29:30] Speaker 1: can just generate your own AI video on anything you want.
[3:29:33] Speaker 1: We can we can make that a reality. Megan, good
[3:29:38] Speaker 1: to see it tonight, friend, thank you for the nine
[3:29:42] Speaker 1: super chest says, wouldn't it be ironic if you actually
[3:29:44] Speaker 1: ended up creating a new religion, the more stoned version
[3:29:48] Speaker 1: of Christianity? You would be the next Rocky scientology called
[3:29:52] Speaker 1: hill Dog. You know what I'm down. I make a
[3:29:56] Speaker 1: great cult leader, and I don't even demand like that
[3:30:01] Speaker 1: you give me your wives and your daughters or anything
[3:30:03] Speaker 1: like that, which which is a time honored tradition in cults.
[3:30:09] Speaker 1: But I'm not going to be that kind of a
[3:30:11] Speaker 1: cult leader. I would never do that. And thank you
[3:30:15] Speaker 1: so much Laala for the five hour supertest. Says tuned
[3:30:17] Speaker 1: in for cooking believers and gonna be leaving having learned
[3:30:21] Speaker 1: all about Cotton Eye Joe. Well rounded education as a party,
[3:30:24] Speaker 1: You're getting a good well rounded education here. I think
[3:30:28] Speaker 1: they refer to that in college as a liberal education.
[3:30:32] Speaker 1: You're getting a good liberal education here. Tonight, guys, and
[3:30:36] Speaker 1: TJ thank you so much for the supertest, says I
[3:30:38] Speaker 1: knew about Cotton Eye Joe from James Taylor. I actually
[3:30:41] Speaker 1: had no idea, actually, and I'm really sad that I didn't.
[3:30:43] Speaker 1: No sooner and doctor Peter, you're right, says Beepop. Sounds
[3:30:48] Speaker 1: like he talks with a hunch. Yeah, I think you're
[3:30:53] Speaker 1: about right. Jmr. Good to see you tonight, Fred And
[3:30:57] Speaker 1: says I can hear the dumb echoing off his panel. Well,
[3:31:03] Speaker 1: it was thick like if dumb had a form of speech,
[3:31:07] Speaker 1: That's what it would sound like. And Evan says, atheists,
[3:31:12] Speaker 1: let's read the Bible Christians. Uh, I know Christians hate
[3:31:16] Speaker 1: reading the Bible. Every time I read the Bible to them,
[3:31:18] Speaker 1: they hate it. They hate nothing more than me reading
[3:31:21] Speaker 1: the Bible with them. It terrifies them. This is actually
[3:31:24] Speaker 1: my experience on the on the uh the Tim Tool
[3:31:28] Speaker 1: Show was every time I actually wanted to address what
[3:31:32] Speaker 1: the Bible taught, they were terrified of letting me do it.
[3:31:35] Speaker 1: They wouldn't do it. They're terrified of it. Watching the
[3:31:39] Speaker 1: Nation says, is you related to Dan mcclohan. I've had
[3:31:43] Speaker 1: to do this before. I'm not related to Dan mccleohan.
[3:31:46] Speaker 1: I recognize that we have similar facial structures. His a
[3:31:48] Speaker 1: little taller and thinner than mine, and we maybe we
[3:31:52] Speaker 1: sound roughly similar, and we have the same red facial hair.
[3:31:57] Speaker 1: I get it. But he's smarter than me, which is
[3:32:00] Speaker 1: why his forehead is a little bit taller, because as
[3:32:03] Speaker 1: you gain more knowledge, you have to add new layers
[3:32:06] Speaker 1: in your head to fit the brain matter in. So
[3:32:09] Speaker 1: he's actually got more wrinkles on his forehead than I
[3:32:11] Speaker 1: do obviously because he's smarter. Eventually he's going to be
[3:32:15] Speaker 1: mega mind. He's just gonna, you know, like Kazoo from
[3:32:18] Speaker 1: the Flintstones.
[3:32:19] Speaker 6: You know.
[3:32:20] Speaker 1: Tally, Good to see you tonight, says Happy Saturday, Justin
[3:32:23] Speaker 1: and everyone Happy Saturday, do you? Tali, thank you so
[3:32:25] Speaker 1: much for the nineteen ninety nine super chat. I really
[3:32:28] Speaker 1: appreciate it.
[3:32:28] Speaker 6: Friend.
[3:32:28] Speaker 1: That's very generous. And good day to everyone that hasn't
[3:32:33] Speaker 1: heard so far. Doro, thank you for the fight hour
[3:32:35] Speaker 1: super Chest says, you're roasting these smug clowns. Gives me
[3:32:38] Speaker 1: daily don't mean hit well. I'm so glad that I
[3:32:40] Speaker 1: could be the light in your life, Doro. I'll do
[3:32:44] Speaker 1: everything I can to keep the smile going and everlasting. Gobstopper,
[3:32:48] Speaker 1: good to see again tonight says If you ever had
[3:32:51] Speaker 1: a sugar daddy named Edward Grigorian, your name might be
[3:32:56] Speaker 1: Tim Poole. Yeah, listen, I I didn't bring up the
[3:33:01] Speaker 1: Russia money scandal when I was on Tim's show because
[3:33:04] Speaker 1: I knew he would lose his mind. But you know,
[3:33:08] Speaker 1: it is what it is. It would have been fun
[3:33:11] Speaker 1: to watch, but what are you in do? Fristo, thank
[3:33:14] Speaker 1: you so much for the toy hour super Chat says,
[3:33:17] Speaker 1: could you explain the significance of targums, especially targetm Jonathan
[3:33:20] Speaker 1: in the understanding of Jewish perspective the Suffering Servant Isaiah
[3:33:24] Speaker 1: dy three, Why do you figure so many Christians refer
[3:33:26] Speaker 1: to extra biblical sources, so Fristo, this is a very
[3:33:28] Speaker 1: good question. And the reason why the targums are so
[3:33:31] Speaker 1: important to especially Christians on Isaiah d three is there's
[3:33:35] Speaker 1: like this really interesting thing that happens in Targum Jonathan,
[3:33:39] Speaker 1: where they're basically suggesting, because the author of the targum
[3:33:48] Speaker 1: is doing an interpretive translation, we should assume that the
[3:33:53] Speaker 1: interpretation in the targome is like orthodoxy for Judaism, right,
[3:34:01] Speaker 1: And because the targum seems to have a messianic overtone
[3:34:04] Speaker 1: of Isaiah forty three, then we should assume that that's
[3:34:08] Speaker 1: what the prophecy is about. But they wouldn't accept that
[3:34:10] Speaker 1: for anything else. Like if you took them to the
[3:34:12] Speaker 1: targums on any of the other prophecies and said, well, listen,
[3:34:16] Speaker 1: according to the interpretation and the targums the way they
[3:34:18] Speaker 1: translated it, this isn't at all about Jesus. They lose
[3:34:21] Speaker 1: their mind they're just cherry picking Jewish sources. They don't
[3:34:24] Speaker 1: care what the Targums say. They don't care what the
[3:34:27] Speaker 1: Talmud say. Anytime one of these extra biblical sources reinforces
[3:34:31] Speaker 1: their opinion, they'll pull on it. When it disagrees with
[3:34:34] Speaker 1: their opinion, they'll throw it away because they're not actually
[3:34:37] Speaker 1: interested in honest dialogue. And we've got other sources from
[3:34:41] Speaker 1: the early world from Judaism on isaiahfty three that contradicts
[3:34:46] Speaker 1: the Targums. So, but thank you for the hat bad religion.
[3:34:49] Speaker 1: Just a couple more super chests, guys, Lisa, good to see.
[3:34:51] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the ten dollar super chests, says,
[3:34:52] Speaker 1: this particular caller is very annoying. Please send them to
[3:34:55] Speaker 1: the void. Well we did. We we got them to
[3:34:58] Speaker 1: the void. He's he's out the there now. And Iggy says,
[3:35:01] Speaker 1: why is the Holy Spirit always angry? The Holy Spirit
[3:35:04] Speaker 1: is angry a lot. In fact, a lot of times
[3:35:06] Speaker 1: when people have bouts of violence in the Old Testament,
[3:35:09] Speaker 1: it's because the Holy Spirit came on them. In fact,
[3:35:12] Speaker 1: he even caused Saw at one point to strip down
[3:35:14] Speaker 1: Neked when he the Holy Spirit came on him, and
[3:35:17] Speaker 1: he was among the prophets. He stripped down neckd and
[3:35:20] Speaker 1: was like rolling around on the floor under the power
[3:35:23] Speaker 1: of the Holy Spirit. And Jay Corling says, a blessing
[3:35:27] Speaker 1: from Doug Rock be praise Rock, be praise held Doug
[3:35:31] Speaker 1: the Rock of Salvation. And Master Sheeter says, it's a
[3:35:34] Speaker 1: bug's life, not about any Jesus. Hmmm, it's a good point.
[3:35:38] Speaker 1: It's a bugs is that movie? Is that a prophecy?
[3:35:43] Speaker 1: Is a bug's life actually a prophecy? And we missed it?
[3:35:45] Speaker 6: Guys?
[3:35:47] Speaker 1: Maybe wolfn Joker says your collabs with Planet Peterson are fantastic.
[3:35:52] Speaker 1: It made me a subscriber here. I'm blown away by
[3:35:54] Speaker 1: your scholarship in common sense. Well, thank you so much,
[3:35:56] Speaker 1: Wolven Jacket. I really appreciate that, and thank you so
[3:35:59] Speaker 1: much for supporting the chain and Planet Peterson is amazing.
[3:36:02] Speaker 1: That's why we I think we get along so well,
[3:36:05] Speaker 1: is because he's so smart and I, you know, I
[3:36:07] Speaker 1: really cherish his knowledge. I think I think he compliments me.
[3:36:11] Speaker 1: He's good in places where I'm weak, you know what
[3:36:13] Speaker 1: I mean, Like he's very competent in the sciences and
[3:36:16] Speaker 1: Dexter thank you so much for the twenty hours super
[3:36:18] Speaker 1: chat big, big W dexter very generous. I appreciate that, says.
[3:36:22] Speaker 1: Just finished listening to the Timpool conversation. I was surprised
[3:36:25] Speaker 1: they let you talk as much as you did. I know,
[3:36:27] Speaker 1: I was surprised to fifteen to twenty minutes tops out
[3:36:30] Speaker 1: of two hours. That was an odd comvo, barely dug
[3:36:34] Speaker 1: in and ignored the Bible at every turn. Yep, they're
[3:36:36] Speaker 1: terrified of the Bible. These these Christian nationalists want to
[3:36:41] Speaker 1: enforce Christianity, but one thing they won't do is actually
[3:36:44] Speaker 1: read what the Bible says. They're actually terrified of what
[3:36:46] Speaker 1: the Bible says. Sarah's with us. Now we have Sarah
[3:36:52] Speaker 1: and Em in the house. Now, good to see us. Sarah, Hi,
[3:36:57] Speaker 1: big W. Guys, if you're not following Sarah or the
[3:37:00] Speaker 1: power of Doug compels you to do so, and we'll
[3:37:03] Speaker 1: get our next caller in here. So it looks like
[3:37:09] Speaker 1: we've got let me get this name right, sit Socrates
[3:37:14] Speaker 1: Skit Scott skit Socrates.
[3:37:17] Speaker 3: Hello, Yeah, hi.
[3:37:19] Speaker 1: You Jim, Yeah, I can hear him. Socrates. Are you
[3:37:23] Speaker 1: at least eighteen? And are you a believer?
[3:37:27] Speaker 20: I'm twenty two and I'm I'm an atheist. But I'm
[3:37:30] Speaker 20: a really big fan of you. Justin I watched the
[3:37:35] Speaker 20: Tempoole conversation and I just want to say I really
[3:37:40] Speaker 20: commend you for going into that one v.
[3:37:42] Speaker 6: Three.
[3:37:43] Speaker 20: Christians are pretty dishonest and I can't.
[3:37:47] Speaker 2: Continue without lies.
[3:37:49] Speaker 1: So nailed it.
[3:37:50] Speaker 6: Big props to you, man.
[3:37:51] Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Without lies, Christianity dies. Thanks so much.
[3:37:55] Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And we've got one temples of border
[3:37:58] Speaker 1: crashing out in the comments. He obviously wasn't present. All right,
[3:38:05] Speaker 1: let's get interfacing Meatball in here next and while they're loading.
[3:38:11] Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Noah for the super chat, says
[3:38:13] Speaker 1: if I shone a light in his ears, light would
[3:38:16] Speaker 1: shine out the other side. Yeah with Bebop. You're right, yeah, Bebop.
[3:38:20] Speaker 1: He didn't have anything between the years anyways. Interfacing, how
[3:38:23] Speaker 1: you doing.
[3:38:24] Speaker 2: I'm doing fantastic.
[3:38:25] Speaker 1: How are you doing doing good? Thank you for asking? Interfacing?
[3:38:30] Speaker 1: Are you at least eighteen? And are you believing?
[3:38:34] Speaker 2: Okay, yes, sim I'm Christian?
[3:38:38] Speaker 6: Sure?
[3:38:39] Speaker 1: And what God do you? Oh? Sorry, you said you're Christian?
[3:38:42] Speaker 1: Quote what'd be the best compelling evidence or argument for
[3:38:45] Speaker 1: the Christian God being real?
[3:38:47] Speaker 6: Yeah?
[3:38:48] Speaker 2: So this isn't just for the Christian God. This is
[3:38:51] Speaker 2: just more for a god. I would say the uniqueness
[3:38:54] Speaker 2: of human consciousness and the evolution of our consciousness is
[3:39:00] Speaker 2: clear indication for God. Also the fine tuning of the universe,
[3:39:05] Speaker 2: which I heard you talking about earlier.
[3:39:07] Speaker 1: So sure, we'll pick your favorite argument. We'll do them
[3:39:09] Speaker 1: one in a time.
[3:39:11] Speaker 2: We'd start off with consciousness.
[3:39:14] Speaker 1: Cool. How do you go from consciousness to a goden?
[3:39:18] Speaker 6: Yeah?
[3:39:18] Speaker 2: So do you know what the mirror test is?
[3:39:20] Speaker 1: Nah?
[3:39:22] Speaker 2: So inside the nineteen seventies, the scientists I don't remember
[3:39:27] Speaker 2: his name, I could find it somewhere inside my notes,
[3:39:29] Speaker 2: he took a bunch of animals and he put them
[3:39:31] Speaker 2: all in front of a mirror. He gave him a mark.
[3:39:34] Speaker 1: Oh, the mirror test, I thought, you said, the mirror tests. No,
[3:39:37] Speaker 1: I know what the mirror test is?
[3:39:38] Speaker 2: Yeah, what about Okay? He gave them a mark, and
[3:39:42] Speaker 2: then further tests also did brain scans. When we did
[3:39:45] Speaker 2: these scans, we saw that animals were kind of conscious,
[3:39:51] Speaker 2: but they were a lot less conscious than we are.
[3:39:53] Speaker 2: Their brains still lit up the same way, just a
[3:39:56] Speaker 2: lot less, and they didn't have the same abstract think.
[3:40:00] Speaker 2: They didn't have the same thinking about morality. It's like,
[3:40:03] Speaker 2: how if you can teach a monkey how to write,
[3:40:06] Speaker 2: but after you teach that monkey how to write, it's
[3:40:08] Speaker 2: not going to go right a philosophy book. So okay.
[3:40:11] Speaker 2: So so my point here is how come we're the
[3:40:14] Speaker 2: only species to develop with this consciousness? And furthermore, why
[3:40:19] Speaker 2: are we the only speed or why when we develop
[3:40:22] Speaker 2: this consciousness do we put such an emphasis on emotions?
[3:40:26] Speaker 2: Why aren't we just like meet computers, like biological computers
[3:40:31] Speaker 2: that take in information and give out the best input.
[3:40:35] Speaker 1: Well, there's a couple of questions there. The first is
[3:40:38] Speaker 1: kind of a malformed question because other animals have formed
[3:40:41] Speaker 1: pretty high levels of consciousness. You just actually don't realize
[3:40:44] Speaker 1: how smart they are. Now their level of abstract thinking
[3:40:47] Speaker 1: may not be as high as ours. But the fact
[3:40:49] Speaker 1: that we have a superior intellect does it mean that
[3:40:52] Speaker 1: somehow we're unique in the animal kingdom? Like if I said, well,
[3:40:55] Speaker 1: how is it possible that chimps are you know, I
[3:41:00] Speaker 1: don't know what percentage stronger than humans, but you know,
[3:41:03] Speaker 1: per pound of body meat, chimps are incredibly strong compared
[3:41:06] Speaker 1: to humans. But like, you wouldn't mark that up to
[3:41:09] Speaker 1: being supernatural. You'll just say, well, that's the adaptation that
[3:41:13] Speaker 1: helped them survive. Right, Our adaptation was.
[3:41:16] Speaker 2: Thinking, okay, So then how come no other animal, even
[3:41:21] Speaker 2: though some other animals have had millions more years to evolve,
[3:41:26] Speaker 2: haven't evolved the same level of cognitive abstract thinking. I'm
[3:41:32] Speaker 2: not just talking about like building tools, because I know
[3:41:34] Speaker 2: that some animals, even pigeons or birds build tools. Come. Yeah,
[3:41:40] Speaker 2: but that's more of like a learned behavior. And how
[3:41:43] Speaker 2: come they didn't evolve some form of abstract thinking because
[3:41:49] Speaker 2: I agree they don't. Conscious using is not creative, not
[3:41:53] Speaker 2: creative deep thinking. Using tools is abstract, and that's a
[3:41:57] Speaker 2: learned behavior.
[3:41:59] Speaker 1: No, Like you're watching somebody do it and then you
[3:42:04] Speaker 1: realize that, oh, you can do something. In fact, there's
[3:42:06] Speaker 1: a video that was floating around the internet a week
[3:42:09] Speaker 1: or two ago of a bird who understood that if
[3:42:15] Speaker 1: he put rocks in a body of water, the level
[3:42:18] Speaker 1: of water would rise and he could drink it.
[3:42:21] Speaker 2: Yeah, but that bird probably learned that from humans. That
[3:42:24] Speaker 2: bird didn't just think, and he wasn't just looking at
[3:42:26] Speaker 2: rocks like I forget who it was. It was like Plato.
[3:42:30] Speaker 2: Someone got into a bath, they saw the water overflow,
[3:42:34] Speaker 2: and then they got out and screamed, Eureka, you're not
[3:42:37] Speaker 2: going to see a bird doing that.
[3:42:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, a bird observed that if you put something in water,
[3:42:42] Speaker 1: the water level moves, and then had an abstract thought
[3:42:45] Speaker 1: that said, oh, if I put something in water, the
[3:42:48] Speaker 1: water level moves.
[3:42:51] Speaker 2: I wouldn't say that that's an exactly abstract thought. That's
[3:42:54] Speaker 2: more of just an instinctual thought. Abstract is more the.
[3:42:57] Speaker 1: Definition of abstract.
[3:43:00] Speaker 2: Abstract is hold on.
[3:43:03] Speaker 1: The definition of abstract means that you can separate it
[3:43:05] Speaker 1: from the base here that it started from. So like
[3:43:09] Speaker 1: when we talk about abstract programming language, we're talking about
[3:43:12] Speaker 1: programming languages that are abstracted from a simpler language. You're
[3:43:16] Speaker 1: just creating levels of abstraction.
[3:43:20] Speaker 2: Okay, But furthermore, still, why do we put so much
[3:43:23] Speaker 2: emphasis on things like beauty, love, or sadness.
[3:43:27] Speaker 1: Well, just just how evolution works, right, So we have
[3:43:30] Speaker 1: like emotional traits that helped us to survive as a species.
[3:43:34] Speaker 1: And when you have we'll call it a society of
[3:43:40] Speaker 1: animals human beings for this particular case, and your dependence
[3:43:44] Speaker 1: your survival is dependent on you, guys, surviving as a cohort.
[3:43:48] Speaker 1: Then you're going to have behaviors that help you to
[3:43:52] Speaker 1: survive as a cohort because the people who didn't have
[3:43:57] Speaker 1: those behaviors died, they're all gone.
[3:44:00] Speaker 2: What about why do so many people put so much
[3:44:03] Speaker 2: emphasis on like beauty?
[3:44:05] Speaker 15: But why why are you why are you like making
[3:44:08] Speaker 15: this a human unique treat? It isn't what it isn't
[3:44:13] Speaker 15: a human unique treat finding beauty and stuff?
[3:44:18] Speaker 1: Uh?
[3:44:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, but then still what does it happen?
[3:44:21] Speaker 15: But why? Your argument was why is it only humans?
[3:44:26] Speaker 15: And since it's only humans, that suggests defined intervention if
[3:44:30] Speaker 15: you find it in the kingdom, that shows you that
[3:44:32] Speaker 15: there's nothing unique to humans. And why would it why
[3:44:34] Speaker 15: would you use it to show the wind intervention in
[3:44:37] Speaker 15: human creation?
[3:44:39] Speaker 2: I'm sorry, brother, who was just talking? I can't really
[3:44:42] Speaker 2: understand him? Could you really said host?
[3:44:45] Speaker 1: I understood him?
[3:44:47] Speaker 2: Do you understand the voice sounds like his voice sounds
[3:44:50] Speaker 2: like super deep.
[3:44:51] Speaker 1: For me, it sounds like you're yeah, you're you're. Your
[3:44:55] Speaker 1: sensory ears didn't evolve the same as mine, apparently, but
[3:44:59] Speaker 1: so people hear base tones better. Actually, my dad couldn't
[3:45:02] Speaker 1: hear base tones, but that's a whole different situation. So,
[3:45:06] Speaker 1: but the fact of the matter is, you know a
[3:45:08] Speaker 1: lot of animals have the adaptations that you're saying that
[3:45:11] Speaker 1: only animals have.
[3:45:13] Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, but then they more of react to
[3:45:15] Speaker 2: stimuli instead of thinking for themselves. Like I mean sure,
[3:45:21] Speaker 2: I mean that that I worded that wrong. I'm sorry.
[3:45:24] Speaker 2: I word stuff wrong a lot, But what I meant
[3:45:26] Speaker 2: there was they don't exactly have like I got to
[3:45:32] Speaker 2: think about a word. It just that I don't get
[3:45:33] Speaker 2: it wrong.
[3:45:34] Speaker 21: Is your whole argument here that humans are unique? Therefore God?
[3:45:41] Speaker 2: My argument is that humans are unique and because of
[3:45:44] Speaker 2: that uniqueness, which puts an emphasis on love and stuff
[3:45:49] Speaker 2: of the sort, I believe that there is more to
[3:45:52] Speaker 2: love than just a chemical reaction.
[3:45:55] Speaker 21: That's a totally different argument than humans are unique.
[3:45:58] Speaker 1: Though.
[3:45:59] Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's the start of my argument. It's
[3:46:01] Speaker 2: like takes time to develop.
[3:46:04] Speaker 21: So you're saying that humans I'm trying to I'm trying
[3:46:09] Speaker 21: to figure out how you're getting to God. Like everything
[3:46:13] Speaker 21: has something that's unique. I mean, I mean, moneys are unique.
[3:46:17] Speaker 2: I think that this just points towards a creator. I
[3:46:20] Speaker 2: mean in the sense of I think if everything was natural,
[3:46:24] Speaker 2: and if this was if we just evolved to be
[3:46:29] Speaker 2: the best predators, I don't think we would put so
[3:46:31] Speaker 2: much emphasis on beauty, or we would put so much
[3:46:34] Speaker 2: emphasis on stuff like this.
[3:46:38] Speaker 21: Yeah, I don't think you understand how, like how evolution
[3:46:42] Speaker 21: is actually working here, Like I mean kind of doesn't
[3:46:46] Speaker 21: have a goal in that it evolution functions so that
[3:46:51] Speaker 21: you know, the species survives. But there's lots of different
[3:46:55] Speaker 21: avenues that a species can survive, and so humans, one
[3:46:59] Speaker 21: of the ways that we were able to survive as
[3:47:02] Speaker 21: a species is our ability to cooperate. Yeah, we have
[3:47:05] Speaker 21: these pro social behaviors, and so humans that were more empathetic,
[3:47:11] Speaker 21: that could experience things like kindness and compassion and love
[3:47:15] Speaker 21: actually had a survival advantage and that's why we have it.
[3:47:21] Speaker 2: How come we don't see animals with the same amount,
[3:47:24] Speaker 2: I don't. I do agree that we do see animals
[3:47:27] Speaker 2: that show like.
[3:47:31] Speaker 21: Advantage.
[3:47:32] Speaker 15: Right, Curious, I'm curious how you quantifize it?
[3:47:36] Speaker 2: Excuse me?
[3:47:37] Speaker 15: How do you quantify love? Go ahead?
[3:47:39] Speaker 2: Quantify? How would I explain love? Like my explanation quantiflate.
[3:47:46] Speaker 15: You said we have it more than animals. I'm asking
[3:47:47] Speaker 15: you to quantify it.
[3:47:49] Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't mean that like we have it more.
[3:47:50] Speaker 2: I mean that we express it more.
[3:47:53] Speaker 1: How did you quantify that?
[3:47:54] Speaker 2: Would do well when you look at Yeah, I guess
[3:48:00] Speaker 2: I probably should have gotten a few studies. That's my bad.
[3:48:04] Speaker 2: I I just kind of came up here with just
[3:48:07] Speaker 2: the mirror test and I thought that that would be enough.
[3:48:10] Speaker 2: I'll definitely get back and go get some more for
[3:48:14] Speaker 2: another debate.
[3:48:15] Speaker 6: Listen, you give you.
[3:48:17] Speaker 2: Yeah, I did. I did. We can move on to
[3:48:20] Speaker 2: the fine tuning though, sure, yeah, so hold on find
[3:48:26] Speaker 2: something Okay, thank you brother.
[3:48:33] Speaker 15: Way I've heard, I've heard the before demonstrates the proposed
[3:48:38] Speaker 15: and argument that we that good exists because humans have
[3:48:43] Speaker 15: unique facial characteristics.
[3:48:46] Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think it's I get how the argument, Yeah,
[3:48:51] Speaker 2: I get how the argument could have been seen as
[3:48:53] Speaker 2: that anyways. So for the fine tuning of the universe,
[3:48:57] Speaker 2: my point here is if the laws of physics were
[3:49:00] Speaker 2: different and pretty much tiny values, then life would not
[3:49:05] Speaker 2: be supported in the universe. So what I could I
[3:49:09] Speaker 2: will that points to a creator once again, I will
[3:49:13] Speaker 2: say it. It kind of does here.
[3:49:17] Speaker 1: If you're pre supposing that the universe has a goal
[3:49:19] Speaker 1: in mind, now it would be u Yeah, Like if
[3:49:22] Speaker 1: the universe had a goal in mind and it happened
[3:49:25] Speaker 1: that the goal that it was achieved was highly improbable.
[3:49:29] Speaker 1: Then you could say that it was fine tuned. But
[3:49:31] Speaker 1: the universe doesn't have a goal.
[3:49:33] Speaker 2: Well, that's not true. We wouldn't say that it doesn't
[3:49:35] Speaker 2: have a goal. We just might not know its goal.
[3:49:37] Speaker 1: Well, you'd have to demonstrate that it had a goal
[3:49:39] Speaker 1: before you assume that it did. Like, now you're just
[3:49:42] Speaker 1: big to question that it doesn't. No, I don't.
[3:49:47] Speaker 2: Why do I have to then.
[3:49:48] Speaker 1: Because the burden of proof is on you, like, until
[3:49:50] Speaker 1: you can demonstrate that there's like.
[3:49:54] Speaker 2: I don't think I don't think that. I'm sorry.
[3:49:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't claim that the universe has a goal
[3:50:01] Speaker 1: in mind until you can demonstrate that there's a God
[3:50:03] Speaker 1: that set that goal, right, So you're using your conclusion
[3:50:07] Speaker 1: to support your conclusion.
[3:50:10] Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I mean I can see that. I don't
[3:50:12] Speaker 2: think anyone's ever going to be able to indefinitely prove
[3:50:16] Speaker 2: or disprove God until he eventually one day comes back.
[3:50:21] Speaker 2: But I think that's because if we were able to
[3:50:24] Speaker 2: prove him, that would take away from a lot of
[3:50:26] Speaker 2: the faith, and I think that's where the connection of
[3:50:29] Speaker 2: love is. But that's just my own opinion on it.
[3:50:32] Speaker 1: I mean, quite deeply.
[3:50:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to argue on that.
[3:50:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, you said you're Christian, right.
[3:50:44] Speaker 2: Yeah, but if you why am I Christian? Oh dude,
[3:50:50] Speaker 2: I had I had a really really whack experience.
[3:50:54] Speaker 1: So it's not rooted in research, it's rooted in experience.
[3:50:59] Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's rooted in a combination of a research,
[3:51:04] Speaker 2: my life, and experience.
[3:51:06] Speaker 1: Sure. Well, I don't think personal experience is very compelling.
[3:51:10] Speaker 2: But that's what we're based truth on.
[3:51:13] Speaker 1: Ah, not so much. Like So, for example, I've got
[3:51:16] Speaker 1: a Hindu friend that has experienced two of the Hindu gods,
[3:51:19] Speaker 1: he was visited by two of them. Would you say
[3:51:21] Speaker 1: that his personal experience is real? No?
[3:51:25] Speaker 2: But I also.
[3:51:27] Speaker 1: So why would I? Why would I care about your
[3:51:29] Speaker 1: personal experience?
[3:51:30] Speaker 2: Because I wouldn't deny his truth over my truth. My
[3:51:33] Speaker 2: truth is what's true to me. His truth is what's
[3:51:36] Speaker 2: true to him.
[3:51:36] Speaker 1: Right, But I want to know what's true in reality
[3:51:38] Speaker 1: independent of what's in your in your great matter.
[3:51:42] Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, don't the Hindus value Jesus as
[3:51:46] Speaker 2: some sort of enlightened figure. I really know, I know,
[3:51:50] Speaker 2: I know a lot of Buddhists to do. And I
[3:51:53] Speaker 2: mean with that, that kind of just points towards him
[3:51:56] Speaker 2: more the fact that a good bit of religions involve him,
[3:52:00] Speaker 2: and if he isn't the main center of them.
[3:52:02] Speaker 1: They don't though. The only other one that is, but
[3:52:07] Speaker 1: Islam doesn't even think he was crucified.
[3:52:10] Speaker 2: Yeah, but they still think that someone was crucified in
[3:52:13] Speaker 2: his place. They just think he was in crucified because
[3:52:15] Speaker 2: it was too good.
[3:52:17] Speaker 1: So I never said that didn't exist. The question is
[3:52:20] Speaker 1: whether or not like the story about Jesus is true, right, Yeah, yeah,
[3:52:25] Speaker 1: I don't what would leave somebody to the conclusion that
[3:52:30] Speaker 1: Jesus is a messiah.
[3:52:34] Speaker 2: I don't think it's just going to come by reading
[3:52:36] Speaker 2: the Bible. I think it's going to come by their
[3:52:38] Speaker 2: own experiences. If they experience God, then they're gonna they're
[3:52:45] Speaker 2: not going to turn away from him unless they I
[3:52:49] Speaker 2: mean that that's actually not true.
[3:52:50] Speaker 1: So then you can't actually know who God is unless
[3:52:53] Speaker 1: he personally reveals it to you. Yeah, so then everyone
[3:52:58] Speaker 1: who dies not believing that's God's fault. God didn't reveal himself.
[3:53:03] Speaker 6: Well.
[3:53:03] Speaker 2: I also think that judgment isn't just going to be
[3:53:06] Speaker 2: based on did you believe or did you not believe?
[3:53:09] Speaker 2: I think it's going to be a little bit broader
[3:53:12] Speaker 2: of a spectrum, because I think that God's a lot
[3:53:14] Speaker 2: more complex than just A and B. I think he's
[3:53:18] Speaker 2: It says that he's going to look at our whole
[3:53:20] Speaker 2: life and then he's going to decide from there. And
[3:53:22] Speaker 2: I know that he's adjust God, so he's going to
[3:53:25] Speaker 2: judge justly.
[3:53:26] Speaker 1: What's Revelation twenty one eight? Say, and you hit your.
[3:53:28] Speaker 2: Bible revelation, I'll just search it up. I could go
[3:53:32] Speaker 2: grab my Bible, but I don't feel like it. Knob
[3:53:36] Speaker 2: Revelation twenty one.
[3:53:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, just twenty one Okay?
[3:53:43] Speaker 2: Is this the one that talks about the one hundred
[3:53:45] Speaker 2: and forty thousand?
[3:53:46] Speaker 1: Not quite, but I mean, yeah, the Book of Revelation
[3:53:49] Speaker 1: does cover that.
[3:53:50] Speaker 2: That's like cowardly. Yeah, but that's I was just asking
[3:53:55] Speaker 2: because I mean, I don't think that's actually talking about. Yeah,
[3:53:59] Speaker 2: but the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the
[3:54:02] Speaker 2: sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the dolaters, and
[3:54:07] Speaker 2: all liars. They will be consigned to their fiery to
[3:54:12] Speaker 2: the fiery lake of burning sulfur. Right, this is the second.
[3:54:15] Speaker 1: Ap Yeah, so unbelievers, that's.
[3:54:17] Speaker 2: Me right, It doesn't say, I mean, hold on, just
[3:54:26] Speaker 2: because I haven't read through the entire Book of Revelation
[3:54:30] Speaker 2: or I don't looked at it with the Hebrew. I
[3:54:31] Speaker 2: just want to look at what it says compared just
[3:54:36] Speaker 2: because I'm like one of those type of guys A
[3:54:39] Speaker 2: lot of atheists who bring up points like, oh the
[3:54:42] Speaker 2: Bible says this, it's usually just an issue with the Hebrew.
[3:54:46] Speaker 1: Well, this is written in Greek though, Oh.
[3:54:49] Speaker 2: I mean Greek or Hebrew? Okay with this though, I mean,
[3:54:58] Speaker 2: I assume.
[3:54:59] Speaker 1: The word is piss if I had to guess that's
[3:55:01] Speaker 1: the Greek word for faith. Hold on, which word did
[3:55:07] Speaker 1: they put in there?
[3:55:09] Speaker 2: Uh? Miss sick? My computer is being weird.
[3:55:16] Speaker 1: I can grab it for you. Let me grab it.
[3:55:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a pista so without or lacking right?
[3:55:25] Speaker 6: Yeah?
[3:55:26] Speaker 2: So, I mean, sure, if you don't believe in him whatsoever,
[3:55:31] Speaker 2: I don't know what to say to you. But I
[3:55:33] Speaker 2: also don't know if Chris, if we take like a
[3:55:36] Speaker 2: Muslim who still believes in Jesus to an extent, and
[3:55:40] Speaker 2: then we say that if that's all he knew and
[3:55:43] Speaker 2: he didn't know anything else, but he's still going to
[3:55:45] Speaker 2: be thrown out the window. I would say we can't
[3:55:48] Speaker 2: and definitely say that he will or he won't because
[3:55:51] Speaker 2: we don't know.
[3:55:52] Speaker 1: Well, the reason why I don't think that Jesus is
[3:55:55] Speaker 1: the Messiah is because he just kind of seems to
[3:55:58] Speaker 1: be like a straight up liar and a fraud. So
[3:56:01] Speaker 1: he didn't fulfill any prophecies, and like even when he
[3:56:04] Speaker 1: quotes from the Old Testament, he doesn't actually know what
[3:56:07] Speaker 1: he's talking about. I'll give you a really good example.
[3:56:11] Speaker 1: Open up Isaiah sixty one for me.
[3:56:13] Speaker 2: If you wouldn't Isaiah sixty one, right, So you just
[3:56:19] Speaker 2: hold on. I'm gonna go grab my Bible.
[3:56:25] Speaker 1: At least he's got a paper bible. You know a
[3:56:26] Speaker 1: lot of these Christians don't even own a Bible.
[3:56:32] Speaker 21: Really, Yeah, I stile.
[3:56:39] Speaker 1: I love my paper Bibles. I've got a collection of them.
[3:56:43] Speaker 2: I know you you like all the versions. Yeah, that's cool.
[3:56:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of them I can't throw away because
[3:56:51] Speaker 1: they've got my notes in them. You know, I've been
[3:56:53] Speaker 1: writing notes in the margins of all the Bibles. So
[3:56:55] Speaker 1: it's like I can't get rid of them unless I
[3:56:57] Speaker 1: combine them all into one Bible. I ain't got time
[3:56:59] Speaker 1: for that.
[3:57:00] Speaker 2: Times of you read through the bottle.
[3:57:05] Speaker 1: From beginning to say end, like straight through, probably about
[3:57:09] Speaker 1: six times. But typically I study the Old Testament. I've
[3:57:15] Speaker 1: been through the Old Testament a dozen times or more.
[3:57:20] Speaker 2: I don't I don't blame you. So you said Isaiah.
[3:57:24] Speaker 1: Sixty Yeah, Isaiah sixty one.
[3:57:28] Speaker 2: Isaiah sixty one, And I think we just.
[3:57:31] Speaker 1: Want to read the first four verses.
[3:57:34] Speaker 6: All right.
[3:57:35] Speaker 2: The spirit of the Lord God is upon me, because
[3:57:38] Speaker 2: the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto
[3:57:42] Speaker 2: the meek. He hath sent me to bind up, to
[3:57:46] Speaker 2: bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives,
[3:57:51] Speaker 2: and the opening of the prison to them that are bound,
[3:57:54] Speaker 2: to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord and the
[3:57:58] Speaker 2: day of vengeance of our God. To comfort all that mourn,
[3:58:02] Speaker 2: To point unto them that mourn in Zion, to give
[3:58:07] Speaker 2: unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning,
[3:58:11] Speaker 2: the garments of praise, for the spirit of heaviness, that
[3:58:16] Speaker 2: they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of
[3:58:20] Speaker 2: the Lord, that he might be glorified. And they shall
[3:58:24] Speaker 2: build the old wastes, and they shall raise up the
[3:58:27] Speaker 2: former desolations, and they shall repair, and they shall repair
[3:58:33] Speaker 2: the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
[3:58:38] Speaker 1: Right now, do you know about what time peiod Isaiah's writing.
[3:58:43] Speaker 2: Like, what time period he's writing in. If I'm correct,
[3:58:48] Speaker 2: it's after the Babylonian exiles.
[3:58:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So this is a prophecy about how God
[3:58:56] Speaker 1: is now going to be comforting the people that I
[3:59:00] Speaker 1: have mourned, and He's going to allow them to return
[3:59:04] Speaker 1: home and rebuild what's been destroyed by the Babylonians.
[3:59:08] Speaker 2: Right, yeah, cool.
[3:59:11] Speaker 1: Now, the problem we have is like when we go
[3:59:14] Speaker 1: to the New Testament and go to Luke. Chapter four,
[3:59:19] Speaker 1: for example, says when Jesus goes to the synagogue. It says,
[3:59:26] Speaker 1: when Jesus came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up,
[3:59:28] Speaker 1: he went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day, as
[3:59:31] Speaker 1: was his custom, and he stood up to read the
[3:59:33] Speaker 1: scroll the prophet Isaiah was given to him, and he
[3:59:35] Speaker 1: unrolled the scroll and found the place where it has written,
[3:59:37] Speaker 1: The spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he
[3:59:40] Speaker 1: has anointed me to bring good news of the poor.
[3:59:42] Speaker 1: He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives
[3:59:44] Speaker 1: and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free
[3:59:47] Speaker 1: those who are oppressed to proclaim the year of the
[3:59:49] Speaker 1: Lord's favor. Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it
[3:59:52] Speaker 1: back to the attendant, and sat down, and the eyes
[3:59:54] Speaker 1: of the synagogue were fixed on him, and he began
[3:59:56] Speaker 1: to say to them, today, this scripture has been f
[4:00:00] Speaker 1: filled in your hearing. But like just a plained reading
[4:00:03] Speaker 1: of Isay sixty one clearly had nothing to do with
[4:00:05] Speaker 1: the Messiah or Jesus' time period whatsoever.
[4:00:09] Speaker 2: And yeah, they weren't rebuilt, if I'm not mistaken. Didn't
[4:00:15] Speaker 2: the Israelites after the Babylonian exile eventually returned to Israel.
[4:00:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, they did, actually, in roughly nine I'm sorry, five
[4:00:25] Speaker 1: thirty nine. They were released by Cyrus, as predicted in
[4:00:29] Speaker 1: Isaiah I think chapter forty five, and they came back
[4:00:34] Speaker 1: home and they began rebuilding the ruins, just like Isaiah said.
[4:00:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't this what it's talking about?
[4:00:42] Speaker 1: It is? Yeah, yeah, Isaiah is talking about the return
[4:00:45] Speaker 1: of the exiles after the captivity. But this happened five
[4:00:48] Speaker 1: hundred years before Jesus. Jesus didn't do any of this.
[4:00:53] Speaker 2: Oh oh wait, hold on, okay, I see it. I
[4:00:56] Speaker 2: see what you're signing now. I see what you're signed.
[4:00:58] Speaker 1: Right, So Jesus is like taking a random, out of
[4:01:02] Speaker 1: context quotation from the Old Testament and just be like,
[4:01:06] Speaker 1: this is about me. Ignore the context. Just read the
[4:01:10] Speaker 1: part that I like.
[4:01:12] Speaker 2: Okay, you said Luke four.
[4:01:16] Speaker 1: What Yeah, it's in Luke chapter four?
[4:01:21] Speaker 2: Which quote is.
[4:01:22] Speaker 1: Going to be down in seventeen to twenty one?
[4:01:28] Speaker 2: Seventeen to twenty or just give me a minute, dude.
[4:01:32] Speaker 1: Sure, I like that he's actually reading the text with me.
[4:02:00] Speaker 21: I'm surprised you're not putting it up on you know,
[4:02:01] Speaker 21: the big screen.
[4:02:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what? I what's he reading right now?
[4:02:06] Speaker 1: He's reading Luke?
[4:02:08] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[4:02:09] Speaker 2: I mean I honestly I would argue that Jesus did
[4:02:13] Speaker 2: fulfill these things. Maybe. I'm pretty sure that there's more
[4:02:17] Speaker 2: than one example where a prophecy in the Bittle is
[4:02:20] Speaker 2: fulfilled in more than one way. So I'd say that
[4:02:24] Speaker 2: he did heal the broken hearted by giving, giving forgiveness
[4:02:31] Speaker 2: and giving repentance. He he did preach to captives, and
[4:02:38] Speaker 2: he did heal the blind, so he recovered their site.
[4:02:42] Speaker 1: Right, But this isn't about that. This is not about
[4:02:44] Speaker 1: the Messiah. Yeah, But so you're saying, now there's a
[4:02:49] Speaker 1: secondary interpretation.
[4:02:52] Speaker 2: Well, I mean, hold on, let me let me just
[4:02:54] Speaker 2: get an example, because I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure,
[4:02:57] Speaker 2: I'm not one hundred percent sure.
[4:03:11] Speaker 21: The sound of the keyboard is kind of awesome, thank you.
[4:03:16] Speaker 2: It's a nice keyboard.
[4:03:22] Speaker 21: Reminds you of a scene in thirty Rack and not
[4:03:24] Speaker 21: thirty Rack Parks and Rec where Ron Swanson has his typewriter.
[4:03:28] Speaker 21: I'm gonna type every word.
[4:03:29] Speaker 2: I know, it's great.
[4:03:32] Speaker 1: That's such a good show.
[4:03:40] Speaker 2: Okay, So yeah, multiple places inside the Bible, a prophecy
[4:03:46] Speaker 2: is fulfilled inside of more than one way. Isaiah seven
[4:03:49] Speaker 2: Dott fourteen talks about the virgin birth. This is not
[4:03:53] Speaker 2: only fulfilled with Jesus, but it's also first fulfilled with
[4:03:57] Speaker 2: Isaiah's son.
[4:03:58] Speaker 1: No, I'm familiar with the hermeneutic. What I'm suggesting is,
[4:04:02] Speaker 1: why should I accept that a prophecy has a second interpretation,
[4:04:06] Speaker 1: especially when the interpretation is now divorced from the original context.
[4:04:11] Speaker 2: Well, because I don't think it's that divorced. I don't
[4:04:14] Speaker 2: think that the original context was just specificus. I'm sorry,
[4:04:19] Speaker 2: was hold on? Let me go back to Isaiah sixty one.
[4:04:22] Speaker 2: Reread it.
[4:04:23] Speaker 1: Well, the problem with secondary interpretations is that they could
[4:04:27] Speaker 1: be anything you want him to. You can go to
[4:04:29] Speaker 1: any book of the Old Testament and just say, well,
[4:04:31] Speaker 1: this sounds like something else. I'm gonna call it a prophecy,
[4:04:34] Speaker 1: even if it's not actually about the thing. You're just saying,
[4:04:37] Speaker 1: here's something similar here, just something similar over there, and
[4:04:41] Speaker 1: we're just gonna say it's a prophecy because we said so.
[4:04:43] Speaker 2: Well, I feel like Jesus wasn't entirely claiming, oh, the
[4:04:47] Speaker 2: Israelites have went back to their land and they've rebuilt.
[4:04:50] Speaker 2: I think he's more of just claiming that he is
[4:04:52] Speaker 2: the king of the Israelites.
[4:04:54] Speaker 6: I don't know.
[4:04:55] Speaker 1: Well, the problem is he wasn't the king either, so
[4:04:57] Speaker 1: there's a huge hurdle. But I want to illus straight
[4:05:00] Speaker 1: the point that I'm making here. I'm going to read
[4:05:02] Speaker 1: you Malachi chapter three. Malchochre for three says, behold, I
[4:05:06] Speaker 1: will send my messenger, and he will prepare the way
[4:05:09] Speaker 1: before me, and the Lord whom you seek shall suddenly
[4:05:12] Speaker 1: come to his temple, even the Messenger of the Covenant,
[4:05:15] Speaker 1: whom you delight in.
[4:05:17] Speaker 6: Now.
[4:05:17] Speaker 1: According to Mormon doctrine, this was fulfilled prior in John
[4:05:21] Speaker 1: the Baptist, and then secondarily in Joseph Smith. Do you
[4:05:26] Speaker 1: think that Joseph Smith fulfilled this?
[4:05:28] Speaker 2: Joseph Smith also had a bunch of financial schemes that
[4:05:32] Speaker 2: he did which ended up making a lot of his
[4:05:35] Speaker 2: followers go broke, which is I never saw Jesus doing that.
[4:05:40] Speaker 1: But I don't think this is about hermaeutics though.
[4:05:44] Speaker 2: Well that's why I that's why I take his interpretation
[4:05:47] Speaker 2: as Dodo.
[4:05:49] Speaker 1: Well, that's why I'm saying. This is not about whether
[4:05:51] Speaker 1: you like him. This is about interpretation and hermeneutics. Right,
[4:05:54] Speaker 1: So would it be valid to say that this prophecy
[4:05:58] Speaker 1: is talking about somebody after Jesus.
[4:06:02] Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's okay, So then it.
[4:06:04] Speaker 1: Must be about me. I'm the messenger. Behold, I will
[4:06:06] Speaker 1: send my messenger. He will prepare the way before me.
[4:06:09] Speaker 1: Did I fulfill this prophecy?
[4:06:11] Speaker 2: Oh?
[4:06:11] Speaker 5: Wait?
[4:06:12] Speaker 2: Which prophecy we're talking about?
[4:06:13] Speaker 3: Now?
[4:06:13] Speaker 2: I thought we were still in Isaiah sixty one.
[4:06:15] Speaker 1: Well I feeled Isaiah sixty one also, really I fu
[4:06:19] Speaker 1: filled both of them.
[4:06:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, when when of you healed the blind?
[4:06:24] Speaker 1: I never said I healed the blind? Is a partial fulfillment? No, no, no,
[4:06:28] Speaker 1: But also Isaiah sixty one doesn't wind Isaiah sixty one
[4:06:32] Speaker 1: didn't say anything about healing the blind, which is the
[4:06:33] Speaker 1: other problem. The Book of Luke quotes a part of
[4:06:38] Speaker 1: Isaiah sixty one that doesn't exist.
[4:06:40] Speaker 2: Oh well, maybe maybe he was just adding to it.
[4:06:45] Speaker 1: Ever, now I'm sure he was right. So the spirit
[4:06:48] Speaker 1: of the Lord God is upon me because he has
[4:06:50] Speaker 1: anointed me, and so I've fulfilled the prophecy. You see
[4:06:54] Speaker 1: how secondary fulfillments are just like super subjective. They could
[4:06:57] Speaker 1: be about anybody.
[4:06:59] Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, once again, you're not in the Bible,
[4:07:02] Speaker 2: so I wouldn't give it a lot of.
[4:07:04] Speaker 1: Was Jesus in the Bible when he read it?
[4:07:08] Speaker 2: When he read it?
[4:07:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, when he sat down and read Isaiah sixty one
[4:07:12] Speaker 1: in the synagogue, was he already in the Bible?
[4:07:15] Speaker 2: Well, I mean the Bible isn't really like I don't
[4:07:19] Speaker 2: was it the Torah like all compiled back then or now?
[4:07:24] Speaker 2: They were in scrolls, so yeah, it was like different.
[4:07:28] Speaker 2: So I mean, but listen to.
[4:07:30] Speaker 1: The argument you're making. You're saying that I can't fulfill
[4:07:33] Speaker 1: the prophecy because I'm not in the Bible. But when
[4:07:35] Speaker 1: Jesus claimed to fulfill the prophecy, he wasn't in the
[4:07:38] Speaker 1: Bible either.
[4:07:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, but then he got put inside the Bible after.
[4:07:42] Speaker 1: Right, and I'll be put in the Bible later as well.
[4:07:44] Speaker 1: They're going to do an addition for Justinism.
[4:07:48] Speaker 2: Where is your twelve disciples?
[4:07:51] Speaker 1: And oh, I got I've actually got thousands of disciples.
[4:07:54] Speaker 1: Put a one in the comments. Guys, if you were
[4:07:55] Speaker 1: my disciple, I want to see how many disciples we
[4:07:57] Speaker 1: got here, We're going to see a lot of one's
[4:08:00] Speaker 1: pile in just now, I bet.
[4:08:02] Speaker 2: But I bet you that God's got a lot more
[4:08:04] Speaker 2: followers than heaven.
[4:08:05] Speaker 1: Well, Jesus only had twelve. I got Jesus beat by
[4:08:07] Speaker 1: a long shot.
[4:08:09] Speaker 2: Well, I mean just the twelve that followed him on earth.
[4:08:15] Speaker 6: I've got.
[4:08:16] Speaker 1: I've got millions of followers in heaven. My kingdom is
[4:08:18] Speaker 1: not of this world.
[4:08:20] Speaker 2: I really I hope you do, brother. I mean that
[4:08:22] Speaker 2: that would make me happy.
[4:08:24] Speaker 1: But you understand the point that I'm making. Please tell
[4:08:27] Speaker 1: me you understand this. Like when you're taking vague prophecies
[4:08:30] Speaker 1: like the spirit of the Lord God is upon me,
[4:08:32] Speaker 1: and you're just applying it fallaciously out of the context.
[4:08:34] Speaker 1: You could do that to anybody. You could apply it
[4:08:36] Speaker 1: to Justice Smith, you could apply it to me. You
[4:08:38] Speaker 1: could apply it to anymore.
[4:08:39] Speaker 2: I mean, if you if you managed to get in
[4:08:41] Speaker 2: the Bible, then sure we'll start applying these prophecies to you.
[4:08:45] Speaker 2: But until I see that happen, I'm not going to
[4:08:47] Speaker 2: say this is your prophecy or this is a Mormon's
[4:08:50] Speaker 2: prophecy right in the created his own thing.
[4:08:54] Speaker 1: But you're understand that you're you're talking a circular logic.
[4:08:57] Speaker 1: Now you're saying that it's true because the Bible is true.
[4:09:00] Speaker 1: You're saying the Bible is true because the Bible says
[4:09:03] Speaker 1: it's true. But I could just write a book about
[4:09:05] Speaker 1: me and say, well, it's my Bible is true because
[4:09:08] Speaker 1: my Bible says it's true.
[4:09:09] Speaker 2: But I want to see your book have as much
[4:09:11] Speaker 2: of an impact as the Bible aside.
[4:09:13] Speaker 1: That's irrelevant whether it has an impact. Did the Bible
[4:09:16] Speaker 1: have an impact in the first century?
[4:09:19] Speaker 2: It, Yeah, it actually did. I mean it was all
[4:09:21] Speaker 2: the way to Africa by the first century.
[4:09:23] Speaker 1: It wasn't written, the Bible wasn'tritten yet in the first century.
[4:09:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, but it had still been preached in Africa, which
[4:09:29] Speaker 2: is pretty cool. I mean, the fact that it could
[4:09:32] Speaker 2: be preached before it was even finished.
[4:09:36] Speaker 1: Guys sound off. If you're in a country other than America,
[4:09:39] Speaker 1: that's hearing my message. Put your country in the comments. Also,
[4:09:44] Speaker 1: I've written a donkey as well.
[4:09:47] Speaker 2: That's cool man. Yeah, I've always wondered.
[4:09:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not in America. We got Australia from Gojo, Canada,
[4:09:53] Speaker 1: from Albino Cascadia. We got Cascadia up in here, Indonesia, Africa. Listen,
[4:09:59] Speaker 1: I've got this all over the world.
[4:10:02] Speaker 2: Yeah, so does Jesus.
[4:10:04] Speaker 1: Though I'm bigger than Jesus, I'm still alive. Jesus dead,
[4:10:07] Speaker 1: he's fertilizer.
[4:10:09] Speaker 2: Well, I believe that he's alive in heaven, so I
[4:10:12] Speaker 2: would just disagree.
[4:10:13] Speaker 1: Well, I've never died. I'm eternal.
[4:10:19] Speaker 2: I mean, I bet you that if someone were to
[4:10:24] Speaker 2: like drop a out of bomb on your city, I
[4:10:28] Speaker 2: don't think that you'd still be standing.
[4:10:30] Speaker 1: But don't. Yeah, that's just what you think. Is that true?
[4:10:36] Speaker 2: I mean, if this ends up boiling over with Russia,
[4:10:40] Speaker 2: maybe we'll find out. Anyways, do you guys have like
[4:10:47] Speaker 2: any other? I mean, I could talk about when I
[4:10:50] Speaker 2: think Jesus is predicted if you'd want to go there.
[4:10:53] Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, show me the Old Testament where Jesus was predicted.
[4:10:57] Speaker 2: I would say, Isaiah nine six.
[4:11:00] Speaker 1: All right, why do you think this is about Jesus? First?
[4:11:07] Speaker 2: Because the titles in it are.
[4:11:10] Speaker 1: Well where to go?
[4:11:12] Speaker 21: Oh, no, we lost him.
[4:11:13] Speaker 1: Don't he'll come back. It's got to be an accident.
[4:11:17] Speaker 1: His phone probably died or something. We'll give him a
[4:11:18] Speaker 1: second to come back. He was so nice, he.
[4:11:22] Speaker 21: Was very nice, very nice.
[4:11:25] Speaker 1: He's back. He's back. Me bo with thought you rolled
[4:11:32] Speaker 1: away on us.
[4:11:35] Speaker 2: A moderator kicked me.
[4:11:37] Speaker 6: I don't know that.
[4:11:37] Speaker 2: Stuff with that.
[4:11:38] Speaker 1: No, a moderator kicked you out.
[4:11:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, it might have just been a mistake.
[4:11:43] Speaker 1: This one could be come out.
[4:11:47] Speaker 2: I do have to say, I'm currently my phone doesn't
[4:11:50] Speaker 2: really work with like a charger outlet, like a normal one.
[4:11:54] Speaker 2: I have to use a wireless charger, and my phone
[4:11:57] Speaker 2: is getting low whenever I put the wire lest charger
[4:12:00] Speaker 2: on my phone, like you can't hear anything going in
[4:12:04] Speaker 2: or out. So I'm gonna have to end up dropping
[4:12:06] Speaker 2: off here in like five or ten minutes. But we
[4:12:10] Speaker 2: could continue with this, sure.
[4:12:14] Speaker 1: I'll start by asking two easy questions. The first question
[4:12:17] Speaker 1: is why wasn't this quoted in the New Testament?
[4:12:22] Speaker 2: What do you mean, like, why wasn't it quoted by
[4:12:24] Speaker 2: any of the disciples and Jesus.
[4:12:26] Speaker 1: I say, nine to six doesn't actually get quoted in
[4:12:28] Speaker 1: the New Testament.
[4:12:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think that is? I don't know.
[4:12:36] Speaker 2: I mean, I've never thought about that.
[4:12:38] Speaker 1: Well, the reason is because they don't actually know how
[4:12:41] Speaker 1: to read Hebrew. They're constantly reading from the Greek Sceptu Agent,
[4:12:46] Speaker 1: and if you read it in the Greek Sceptu Agent,
[4:12:48] Speaker 1: it turns out that it's drastically different than in the
[4:12:51] Speaker 1: Hebrew text. But we're gonna we're gonna read both of them.
[4:12:55] Speaker 21: I think you should clarify whose day is in what
[4:12:57] Speaker 21: you just said.
[4:12:59] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well, I mean, so the New Testament authors
[4:13:03] Speaker 1: in this particular case, the anonymous authors of Matthew, Mark, Luke,
[4:13:08] Speaker 1: and John, if they had known whoever wrote those Gospels
[4:13:13] Speaker 1: that this was in, that this was a prophecy about Jesus,
[4:13:18] Speaker 1: I think they would have liked to pick up on it.
[4:13:20] Speaker 1: Certainly this would have been helpful to their case. But
[4:13:22] Speaker 1: they didn't.
[4:13:23] Speaker 2: And well, I mean, most of the prophecies that they
[4:13:27] Speaker 2: are like honing in on are mentioned. I just don't
[4:13:31] Speaker 2: think this one exactly is one of the prophecies that
[4:13:35] Speaker 2: any of the authors focus on, like Micah five dot
[4:13:39] Speaker 2: two is focused on.
[4:13:40] Speaker 1: Right, Let's read this one first, because this one's really
[4:13:43] Speaker 1: interesting in both the Greek and Hebrew. So the English
[4:13:46] Speaker 1: translation from the septuagen this is gonna be the breton
[4:13:50] Speaker 1: A septuagent says for a child or because a child
[4:13:56] Speaker 1: was born to us, a son also given to us,
[4:13:58] Speaker 1: whose sovereignty was upon his shoulder, and he is named
[4:14:02] Speaker 1: messenger of great Council, for I will bring peace upon
[4:14:06] Speaker 1: the rulers and peace and health to him. It's a
[4:14:08] Speaker 1: pretty big departure. This is what we call an enthronement song,
[4:14:14] Speaker 1: So like when a new king was coming of age,
[4:14:17] Speaker 1: was getting close to their enthronement, they would write these
[4:14:20] Speaker 1: enthronement songs. We see him quite a bit in the
[4:14:23] Speaker 1: ancient Near East, and there's like these really grandiose predictions
[4:14:27] Speaker 1: about how great the king is going to be, and
[4:14:29] Speaker 1: that seems to be what's actually happened here. But what's
[4:14:33] Speaker 1: interesting is it doesn't work out in Greek or and
[4:14:35] Speaker 1: Hebrew because it says a child has been born for us,
[4:14:41] Speaker 1: it's already in the past tense. This is not a
[4:14:43] Speaker 1: prediction for a child coming in the future. It's a
[4:14:46] Speaker 1: child that's already been born.
[4:14:49] Speaker 2: I get that. But inside of Christian theology, we believe
[4:14:53] Speaker 2: that Christ was alive even before he was physical. We
[4:14:57] Speaker 2: think that he was alive.
[4:14:59] Speaker 1: But was beginning because he Jesus was born.
[4:15:04] Speaker 2: I don't think born is the beginning of creation.
[4:15:08] Speaker 1: Right right, But he is saying a child has been born,
[4:15:12] Speaker 1: right yeah. And this was written before Jesus, so it
[4:15:14] Speaker 1: couldn't have been Jesus.
[4:15:16] Speaker 2: Well, I mean, he was already born in heaven. He
[4:15:18] Speaker 2: was already created in heaven.
[4:15:20] Speaker 21: He was already alive, but he had not become a
[4:15:22] Speaker 21: child yet, right.
[4:15:24] Speaker 11: Hold on.
[4:15:26] Speaker 1: In fact, the word here in Hebrew for bearing a
[4:15:30] Speaker 1: child is a form of uh you laud, which literally
[4:15:38] Speaker 1: means to bring forth a child you lad.
[4:15:45] Speaker 2: Hold on, justin did you say this isn't In the New.
[4:15:51] Speaker 1: Testament, Isaiah and nine gets quoted at the beginning of it.
[4:15:55] Speaker 1: So when you go to the beginning, it says people
[4:15:58] Speaker 1: who walked in darkness have seen a great light. Those
[4:16:01] Speaker 1: live in the land of deep darkness a light as
[4:16:04] Speaker 1: Dad gets quoted in the Gospels.
[4:16:06] Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's it's a prophecy, so it's supposed
[4:16:09] Speaker 2: to be predicting the future, the future, and so it's
[4:16:14] Speaker 2: in the future tense.
[4:16:16] Speaker 1: Except for the part about the person being born, because
[4:16:18] Speaker 1: the person being born has already been born, and it
[4:16:22] Speaker 1: talks about what's going to happen later once he takes
[4:16:25] Speaker 1: the throne. It says, a child has been born for us,
[4:16:29] Speaker 1: a son has been given to us, and authority rests
[4:16:32] Speaker 1: upon his shoulders. He is named wonderful counselor Mighty God,
[4:16:35] Speaker 1: everlasting Father, Prince of peace. And then we get future
[4:16:38] Speaker 1: tense language. Great will be his authority, and there shall
[4:16:42] Speaker 1: be endless peace for the throne of David and his kingdom.
[4:16:45] Speaker 1: He will establish and uphold it. Which is a second problem,
[4:16:49] Speaker 1: namely that Jesus was never on the king of the
[4:16:52] Speaker 1: kingly throne.
[4:16:56] Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, but the word the word you lad, which
[4:17:02] Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure, let me just check, make sure, give
[4:17:05] Speaker 2: me a second here. Yeah, the word you lad, which
[4:17:07] Speaker 2: is what's used for is born, isn't exactly a past
[4:17:12] Speaker 2: tense verb. Inside of Hebrew. It is it's a it's
[4:17:16] Speaker 2: it's a perfect form verb.
[4:17:17] Speaker 1: Perfect means it's already been completed. That's what it means.
[4:17:21] Speaker 2: It means that it's a perfect tense it's a.
[4:17:23] Speaker 1: Perfect passive, which means it's happening to the child and
[4:17:28] Speaker 1: it's already occurred, it's completed.
[4:17:32] Speaker 2: Hold on, So I.
[4:17:35] Speaker 1: Know you're like, you're probably googling how Hebrew grammar works,
[4:17:38] Speaker 1: but I'll cut to the chase.
[4:17:40] Speaker 2: I know, perfect tense means I'm not that on grammar.
[4:17:44] Speaker 2: I'm gonna be honest. I don't even know what like
[4:17:46] Speaker 2: a noun is, right, Joh, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.
[4:17:55] Speaker 21: I swear I've said that as the narrator in a
[4:17:59] Speaker 21: Native he play when I was a kid.
[4:18:01] Speaker 1: It's in there. Yes, like every Nativity play includes this passage.
[4:18:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's not.
[4:18:10] Speaker 1: What I could be wrong. Maybe it's quoted outside of
[4:18:14] Speaker 1: the Gospels, but it's not in the Gospels. Somebody fact
[4:18:17] Speaker 1: check me. Maybe I'm wrong.
[4:18:21] Speaker 6: I have like.
[4:18:22] Speaker 21: Songs in my head now that I sang as like
[4:18:24] Speaker 21: an eight year.
[4:18:25] Speaker 1: Old, but they even when the Charlie Brown's Christmas cartoon includes.
[4:18:34] Speaker 21: It, Oh yeah, line says it. Yep, I said it,
[4:18:45] Speaker 21: and the government will be on his shoulders.
[4:18:48] Speaker 2: So I mean, yeah, I get where you're coming from
[4:18:50] Speaker 2: one hundred percent. But I mean the Bible is written weirdly.
[4:18:55] Speaker 2: I mean, this isn't the only time.
[4:18:58] Speaker 1: Yes, where grammar to does it matter?
[4:19:01] Speaker 2: This isn't the only time where we see like phenomenons
[4:19:05] Speaker 2: like this, like later, and like later we're A future
[4:19:10] Speaker 2: tense or a past tense verb is used for something
[4:19:13] Speaker 2: that hasn't happened yet.
[4:19:14] Speaker 1: I actually disagree. I know that people say that, but
[4:19:18] Speaker 1: I can't think of a single instance in the Old
[4:19:20] Speaker 1: Testament where it talks about future events using past tense
[4:19:24] Speaker 1: verbs unless it tells you that it's specifically going to
[4:19:27] Speaker 1: do that. So, for example, when you go to Isaiah fourteen,
[4:19:31] Speaker 1: it's using past tense verbs to describe something in the future,
[4:19:35] Speaker 1: but if you read the context, it tells you that
[4:19:37] Speaker 1: that's what's happening. Says in the future when the King
[4:19:40] Speaker 1: of Babylon falls, take up this taunt against the King
[4:19:43] Speaker 1: of Babylon, because at the time he's going to say
[4:19:47] Speaker 1: the words, it would be in the past tense. But
[4:19:49] Speaker 1: the time the words were given it was before the
[4:19:52] Speaker 1: events happened. So there are cases where that happens.
[4:19:56] Speaker 2: Wait, hold on, I'm just I'm thinking, h give me,
[4:20:00] Speaker 2: give me a second. I think that was too fun.
[4:20:07] Speaker 2: Oh okay, I just I just had like a brain fart.
[4:20:10] Speaker 2: So I'm pretty sure I gotta go look into it
[4:20:15] Speaker 2: a little bit more. But we believe also that the
[4:20:20] Speaker 2: Israelites and some of the prophets like Abraham weren't saved
[4:20:25] Speaker 2: exactly because they did righteous deeds, but because of Jesus,
[4:20:30] Speaker 2: even though Jesus hadn't come yet. So I think that
[4:20:35] Speaker 2: even though his sacrifice hadn't happened, God still knew it
[4:20:39] Speaker 2: was gonna happen, and it still had been in effect.
[4:20:42] Speaker 1: Could God have forgiven people without killing Jesus?
[4:20:46] Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't think it wouldn't have. I don't
[4:20:48] Speaker 2: think it. I think that if God did do that
[4:20:51] Speaker 2: and we just completely got rid of the whole Jesus story,
[4:20:56] Speaker 2: I don't think the Abrahamic religion would nearly be at
[4:20:59] Speaker 2: the state where it is today, and that would also
[4:21:02] Speaker 2: get rid of.
[4:21:04] Speaker 1: That's a different conversation altogether. I just asked, is God
[4:21:07] Speaker 1: capable of forgiving us without killing anyone?
[4:21:10] Speaker 6: Yeah?
[4:21:10] Speaker 1: Okay, So why add the unnecessary hurdle to kill his
[4:21:14] Speaker 1: son and then require that you believe in this nonsense
[4:21:18] Speaker 1: before you can be forgiven?
[4:21:22] Speaker 15: And also Islam is equally big, and they do not
[4:21:24] Speaker 15: have that story.
[4:21:26] Speaker 2: Right, I love you, m m are you from like Russia.
[4:21:31] Speaker 1: I love you, but his location is not allowed to
[4:21:37] Speaker 1: be revealed.
[4:21:38] Speaker 2: And he's yeah, I'm sorry. He just he sounds like
[4:21:40] Speaker 2: a like Russian.
[4:21:42] Speaker 1: Interroor game, like a badass I know, yeah.
[4:21:45] Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. Anyways, So I mean Genesis two dot dot two,
[4:21:51] Speaker 2: isn't that doesn't that also use a perfect tense verb
[4:21:56] Speaker 2: when it talks about finished?
[4:21:59] Speaker 1: Just too too? Let me see says on the sixth day,
[4:22:02] Speaker 1: God finished the work that he had done. Yeah, that's
[4:22:04] Speaker 1: just the past.
[4:22:05] Speaker 2: Tense for a perfect tense in the Hebrew.
[4:22:09] Speaker 1: So yeah, that's completed.
[4:22:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, hold on, actually I guess that
[4:22:18] Speaker 2: I just give me a second, My bad? Did I don't.
[4:22:30] Speaker 2: I don't, honestly, you you might have me here. I
[4:22:33] Speaker 2: don't think I'm gonna be able this proof of you
[4:22:35] Speaker 2: inside the time that it's going to take for my phone,
[4:22:38] Speaker 2: like my phone.
[4:22:38] Speaker 1: Okay, I've been at this a little bit longer than you.
[4:22:41] Speaker 1: Don't worry, I've I've heard the arguments already. But listen,
[4:22:44] Speaker 1: I you know, there was a time I was a
[4:22:46] Speaker 1: young apologist on the internet doing what you're doing, So
[4:22:50] Speaker 1: just keep at it, keep studying and you know one
[4:22:52] Speaker 1: day you'll be a great atheist. I'll welcome you with
[4:22:55] Speaker 1: open arms.
[4:22:56] Speaker 2: Thank you, brother, thank you for having me out. It
[4:22:59] Speaker 2: was a pleasure, all right.
[4:23:00] Speaker 1: I have a good one. Thanks for being polite. What
[4:23:04] Speaker 1: a nice guy, isn't Isn't it crazy that we got
[4:23:06] Speaker 1: these these young people in here that are like nineteen
[4:23:09] Speaker 1: years old and they're they're that kind of polite. Then
[4:23:12] Speaker 1: you get grown ass adults up in here acting like
[4:23:16] Speaker 1: absolute buffoons, and people are like young people aren't the
[4:23:20] Speaker 1: same anymore. They're so disrespect like have you seen grown
[4:23:24] Speaker 1: ass adults? It's crazy.
[4:23:30] Speaker 21: Yeah, he was very kind.
[4:23:31] Speaker 5: He was very kind.
[4:23:34] Speaker 1: All right, let me grab a couple of super jets, guys,
[4:23:36] Speaker 1: says Jake Corling. Thank you for the super jet. By
[4:23:38] Speaker 1: the jit way, he says, if wit was shit, your
[4:23:43] Speaker 1: last caller would be constantly Oh yeah, I see what
[4:23:46] Speaker 1: you're saying. If Wit was shit, your last collar would
[4:23:49] Speaker 1: be consumpated. That's good. Not listen does some good plan
[4:23:54] Speaker 1: on words you got going on. I really appreciate that, Terrence,
[4:23:57] Speaker 1: thank you for the hat. I appreciate the hat too.
[4:23:59] Speaker 1: And Jim Nasty, thank you so much for the Foreign
[4:24:02] Speaker 1: nine Super Chest says TikTok Courtney is spiraling and has
[4:24:06] Speaker 1: revisionist history memory from her failed debate last year. Her
[4:24:11] Speaker 1: eyes have gotten more Carrie like and she's spiraling out
[4:24:16] Speaker 1: of control. Actually, I was just talking to Rabbi Tovia
[4:24:20] Speaker 1: about her because she's so vitriolic, like her behavior is
[4:24:24] Speaker 1: so like venomous, and like apparently like she she stalks him.
[4:24:29] Speaker 1: And I knew that she stalked him because like all
[4:24:31] Speaker 1: of her videos on our YouTube channel are about him,
[4:24:34] Speaker 1: but like apparently she like she stalks him in person,
[4:24:36] Speaker 1: like shows up to his events and like, oh kind
[4:24:38] Speaker 1: of yeah, she's she's not her mind. She ain't right,
[4:24:41] Speaker 1: she got problems. Some people need medicated. Eric, thank you
[4:24:47] Speaker 1: so much for the super Chest says beg. Bed bugs
[4:24:49] Speaker 1: are a great counter argument against intelligent design by loving
[4:24:53] Speaker 1: God hint and involves the phrase traumatic insemination. Oh my gosh,
[4:24:58] Speaker 1: I forgot about bed bugging someon and ducks. You've ever
[4:25:04] Speaker 1: seen ducks the way that they like?
[4:25:07] Speaker 21: I've read about it.
[4:25:08] Speaker 5: I have not seen it.
[4:25:09] Speaker 21: I have only read about it.
[4:25:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, dufinitely, guys. Look up a traumatic insemination. It
[4:25:15] Speaker 1: happens in a number of different species and it's wild Andy,
[4:25:21] Speaker 1: thank you so much for the five dollars, super thank you.
[4:25:23] Speaker 1: I really appreciate that. But you know what, it's perfectly
[4:25:26] Speaker 1: expected in atheism. Because the world we live in is
[4:25:30] Speaker 1: a product of chaos. We would expect there to be
[4:25:33] Speaker 1: some forms of life that have violent insemination practices. Uh. Teren,
[4:25:42] Speaker 1: thank you for the five hour Aussie chat. He says,
[4:25:44] Speaker 1: in Australia we had an unmarried female atheist prime minister.
[4:25:49] Speaker 1: Let me read that again, an unmarried female atheist. Oh
[4:25:52] Speaker 1: hell yeah, w Australia. Uh and Terrence, thank you for
[4:25:54] Speaker 1: the glasses. I think if I remember correctly too, Australia
[4:25:57] Speaker 1: is only like like there, they're like damn near fifty
[4:26:02] Speaker 1: like non believers, aren't they? Like, it's not a super
[4:26:05] Speaker 1: religious country. I don't like. They've got a contingency of
[4:26:09] Speaker 1: Christians and also Muslims, but most people aren't really affiliated.
[4:26:13] Speaker 1: But I have big w there. All right, guys, listen,
[4:26:17] Speaker 1: I'm getting tired and I'm kind of running out of
[4:26:19] Speaker 1: guests on TikTok, so I'm gonna go ahead. Oh, Denise's
[4:26:26] Speaker 1: message to me said the reason why my flag got
[4:26:29] Speaker 1: flagged earlier is because that guy said he was saying
[4:26:33] Speaker 1: he was going to k I l himself. Okay, that
[4:26:35] Speaker 1: makes sense. Yeah, I was wondering why my life got
[4:26:38] Speaker 1: flagged earlier. But we made it through. But guys, thanks
[4:26:41] Speaker 1: so much for being here. If you're not following Sarah
[4:26:43] Speaker 1: or em please do. And Sarah's also on the YouTube's
[4:26:49] Speaker 1: you can find her at Leaving Faith on YouTube.
[4:26:52] Speaker 21: We have a new episode.
[4:26:53] Speaker 1: That's right, we just dropped a new episode of the
[4:26:56] Speaker 1: ex Vandelical Bible Study. We're still in Genesis Genesis Can.
[4:27:01] Speaker 1: It's a slog. It takes a while to get through it.
[4:27:04] Speaker 1: But we'd love to hear your comments.
[4:27:08] Speaker 15: Here's a question please. The first one is for you.
[4:27:12] Speaker 15: Just do you have us controled tomorrow going up on
[4:27:15] Speaker 15: the detiquend.
[4:27:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, so let me double check the discord real quick
[4:27:22] Speaker 1: to see if there was a time. But I think
[4:27:24] Speaker 1: we're gonna be going live tomorrow on Unapologetic on the
[4:27:28] Speaker 1: YouTube channel, probably either nine or ten in the morning.
[4:27:32] Speaker 1: Let me double check. M hmmm. I wouldn't have a
[4:27:37] Speaker 1: time yet, but I suspect we're still going to be
[4:27:39] Speaker 1: going in the morning. I'll you know, I guess I
[4:27:43] Speaker 1: can make an announcement if we don't in the discord.
[4:27:47] Speaker 15: And the second is for Serah. Please, I wanted to
[4:27:51] Speaker 15: know what your thesis was on for your PhD.
[4:27:56] Speaker 21: I'll be slightly general, just not to make myself too searchable,
[4:28:00] Speaker 21: but I looked at the role of inflammation in cancer
[4:28:05] Speaker 21: related fatigue and how particular flavonoids could reduce that chemotherapy
[4:28:10] Speaker 21: and cancer related fatigue.
[4:28:14] Speaker 15: Oh, thank you, You're welcome.
[4:28:17] Speaker 1: So for the big brain people in the audience, that's
[4:28:20] Speaker 1: what Sarah did her PhD dissertation on. And M you're
[4:28:23] Speaker 1: in the medical field too, right.
[4:28:26] Speaker 15: I just finished medical school.
[4:28:27] Speaker 1: Medical school, yes, big w so you understood some of that, certainly.
[4:28:38] Speaker 1: I'm so glad that people like you guys exist, because
[4:28:41] Speaker 1: I'm not cut out for that kind of thing. All right, guys,
[4:28:46] Speaker 1: thank you so much for being heer M. Thanks for
[4:28:48] Speaker 1: joining me. Sarah, thanks for joining me, and we'll be
[4:28:50] Speaker 1: scaring me anytime. You guys are always welcome up here
[4:28:53] Speaker 1: and to the mods if you like. See Sarah or
[4:28:57] Speaker 1: m or Ian or Deconstruction or Blitz or Joel or
[4:29:00] Speaker 1: Mezzo if you see him in my guest box and
[4:29:02] Speaker 1: I don't notice him because I'm busy arguing with Joe
[4:29:06] Speaker 1: Bob You're always welcome to bring my friends up. But guys,
[4:29:13] Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate
[4:29:16] Speaker 1: all the kindness and the support and the chats and
[4:29:19] Speaker 1: the super chats and the gifts. Is somebody live right
[4:29:22] Speaker 1: now that we can go raid? Yeah? See who's live?
[4:29:33] Speaker 1: We got to raid somebody. Somebody's got to be live.
[4:29:35] Speaker 1: It's all right. I love like watching live debates. Every
[4:29:44] Speaker 1: time I hear someone say, now watch this, I know
[4:29:47] Speaker 1: something ridiculous is about to come. It's never good. Oh,
[4:29:56] Speaker 1: Christ before Jesus is live tonight. I didn't know he
[4:30:01] Speaker 1: was going live tonight. Okay, let me let me pull
[4:30:03] Speaker 1: up the stream. Hold on, guys, we're gonna go raid
[4:30:06] Speaker 1: Christ before Jesus. I haven't convinced him yet to stream
[4:30:11] Speaker 1: to YouTube yet, but let me put him on the screen.
[4:30:14] Speaker 1: He's on TikTok. Here he is. Jaren goes by Christ
[4:30:19] Speaker 1: before Jesus. Let me make sure everyone can read it
[4:30:21] Speaker 1: on the screen. There you go, Christ before Jesus too.
[4:30:27] Speaker 1: He's like live right now in his backup or less.
[4:30:30] Speaker 1: This is actually his real main account. Christ before Jesus Too.
[4:30:33] Speaker 1: He's live. It looks like he's got about forty six people.
[4:30:36] Speaker 1: I listen, we got to bump that up over a
[4:30:39] Speaker 1: hundred at least. Let's get him up over one hundred. Guys.
[4:30:42] Speaker 21: People in the comments are saying that he's finished, or
[4:30:44] Speaker 21: that he's done and sent people to come raid you.
[4:30:48] Speaker 1: Oh no, we've got dueling raids. Shit, you're raiding me
[4:30:52] Speaker 1: right now. So well, I guess we're not going to
[4:30:57] Speaker 1: be doing that. Hold on, hold on, there's more people live,
[4:30:59] Speaker 1: there's more people live. Just a thinker is thinker live
[4:31:03] Speaker 1: right now?
[4:31:04] Speaker 15: I don't know thirty minutes.
[4:31:07] Speaker 1: I should be live in thirty minutes, okay, of course,
[4:31:09] Speaker 1: all right, let me give me a second. Oh shit,
[4:31:12] Speaker 1: Quan's live, you guys. If you don't know Quan, let's
[4:31:17] Speaker 1: get let's get Quan followed up. That goes by the
[4:31:20] Speaker 1: handle not Quan, but her actual tag is Quan two
[4:31:24] Speaker 1: point zero. Quan is live right now. I see twenty
[4:31:28] Speaker 1: one people watching Quan's live. Why Christians so bigoted? Great
[4:31:33] Speaker 1: title for a live I want I want to see
[4:31:35] Speaker 1: everyone over in Quan's live. I want a part of
[4:31:37] Speaker 1: this action. That's like pretty damn good. Actually, all right, Quan,
[4:31:45] Speaker 1: I see twenty three people in a room I don't
[4:31:48] Speaker 1: know why it's not at fifty yet. Let's let's bump
[4:31:50] Speaker 1: this thing up. I'll see you over there in Kwan's
[4:31:51] Speaker 1: room actually in just a second. Soonce I end my
[4:31:54] Speaker 1: stream and we can go, you know, harass people in
[4:31:58] Speaker 1: the commet section and you know, shout at him like
[4:32:00] Speaker 1: we're at a ballgame and like we're shouting at the umpires.
[4:32:03] Speaker 1: Be a good time. There's a number of shouters that
[4:32:08] Speaker 1: were crashing out in the comments here that came from
[4:32:10] Speaker 1: the Timpool video. But like for some reason, none of
[4:32:15] Speaker 1: them had the courage to get into the guest box.
[4:32:16] Speaker 1: It's almost like they they didn't want to get cooked.
[4:32:20] Speaker 21: I muted somebody. There was one person who kept shouting
[4:32:23] Speaker 21: the same thing over again.
[4:32:25] Speaker 5: Well I muted him.
[4:32:27] Speaker 1: I'll get you all right, guys, go tell Kwon that
[4:32:32] Speaker 1: justin Sarah and em are giving them a raid. I'll
[4:32:35] Speaker 1: meet you over there in just a second. Thank you
[4:32:36] Speaker 1: so much for spending your night with me. Love you,
[4:32:39] Speaker 1: and we'll see you again tomorrow. Caesar

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