# Treatments During Pregnancy: Myths, Facts & What’s Actually Safe

An episode of [Vain-ish](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1824105551), 19 May 2026, 57 min.

Audio: https://enrichment.soundstack.com/4vjqq8/episode.flightcast.com/poyh8dvwwxx4i8hy4qtp0yri.mp3

Obstetrician, Gynaecologist and Fertility Specialist Dr Joseph Sgroi discusses safe skincare, beauty and cosmetic treatments during pregnancy. From ingredients to avoid to treatments considered safe, he shares expert advice on navigating beauty and wellness while pregnant. Please note: this episode includes discussion of miscarriage and pregnancy loss, which some listeners may find distressing. If this episode raises difficult feelings, support is available via the Pink Elephants Pregnancy Loss Helpline, delivered by PANDA, on 1300 726 306, or Lifeline on 13 11 14 for 24/7 crisis support. Find us on Instagram: @vainishpodcast, and thanks to our guest Dr Joseph Sgroi. Hosts: @becjudd and @jessierobertsx Producer: Liza Altarejos Audio Imager: Chris Marsh Video Producer: Justin Hill Find more great podcasts at www.listnr.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] a listener production.
[0:05] I'm Bec Judd.
[0:06] And I'm Jess Roberts.
[0:07] And we're done with the smoke and mirrors.
[0:09] Fainish shares honest stories about what it takes to look amazing because we did not wake up like this.
[0:15] And you should know the stuff that we chat about on this podcast is based on our personal experiences.
[0:21] We're sharing it for your entertainment.
[0:23] It's definitely not medical advice.
[0:26] And we'll always be clear with you when something is a paid endorsement.
[0:29] Please always chat with your qualified healthcare team before making any decisions about your health.
[0:49] Hey everyone, I'm Jess.
[0:50] And I'm Bec Judd.
[0:52] And welcome to Veining.
[0:54] So last week...
[0:55] Yes, we had Miranda Kerr on and we were talking in our band to things that our kids have taught others or what they've learnt from other children.
[1:03] And we're very sorry.
[1:04] Yeah.
[1:05] Specifically, being sorry to firstborns.
[1:09] When your firstborn is friends with our third and fourthborn.
[1:12] Yeah, they're going to learn a lot.
[1:13] They're going to lose.
[1:15] Because we've had the innocent firstborns.
[1:17] And we've sent them off to houses where their friends were the youngest siblings.
[1:20] Yes.
[1:21] And they've learnt some things.
[1:22] Oh, some serious things.
[1:23] Yeah.
[1:24] And when people come to my house now and they're, because they're gorgeous firstborn is friends with Tom and Darcy, I've got to apologise in advance.
[1:31] Yeah.
[1:31] Tom and Darcy have taught a lot of friends a lot of things.
[1:35] I mentioned them last week, but, you know, about the elf on the shelf and about where babies come from and about guns and about Diddy and about Trump.
[1:45] Yeah.
[1:47] And this is Ellis.
[1:47] All the things.
[1:48] There's no secrets in the Judd household.
[1:50] Everyone knows everything.
[1:51] You know what?
[1:52] When we had one kid, we could be a little bit more careful and they really came and we were careful with them.
[1:56] And by the time the twins come, there's just too many little ears around all the time in every room of the house.
[2:02] There's so many people.
[2:03] It's so bad because it's like you and I have a conversation and there's always a kid around.
[2:07] Always.
[2:07] We can't even spill the tea on stuff.
[2:10] No.
[2:10] We can't talk about our personal lives.
[2:13] We can't bitch about our husbands, their fathers.
[2:15] Yeah.
[2:15] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[2:16] Literally, we can't do anything because there's always these little ears around.
[2:18] Yeah.
[2:19] Anyway, but then sometimes now we're just like stuff it.
[2:21] They can just hear it and they can go back to the source and tell what we've been talking about.
[2:25] Yeah.
[2:25] And it's all true anyway.
[2:27] It's all true.
[2:27] We're making stuff up.
[2:28] No.
[2:29] Sorry that, yeah, your kid knows it too.
[2:31] Fair is not real.
[2:32] Yeah.
[2:33] My kids still believe in it.
[2:35] Oh, really?
[2:35] They're not listening.
[2:37] So we asked our callers to bring in some of the things that their kids learnt from others and here's what they had to say.
[2:45] Hi, this is Dani.
[2:47] My three-year-old now says, fucking shit, idiot, thanks to her brother's mates.
[2:54] Oh, as a little girl too saying that.
[2:56] Oh, no, that's naughty.
[2:58] That's the best.
[2:59] It's like Jagger when he got home from his first day of prep.
[3:01] I'm like, what did you learn today?
[3:02] And he goes, how to spell fuck.
[3:04] How to spell it.
[3:05] And he spells it out on his first day.
[3:08] Yeah.
[3:08] And he learned it from our friend's son.
[3:11] I know who it is.
[3:12] And I remember calling her and she's like, my son would never do that.
[3:15] And then I like sent the audio of Jagger telling me.
[3:19] And she's like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry.
[3:20] Yeah, yeah, I'm so sorry.
[3:23] Oh, my God, we've been there.
[3:24] We've been there.
[3:25] Tom Swears and Darcy, actually, they were having a bath one day and they didn't realise that I was in my bedroom.
[3:31] They were bathing in my ensuite.
[3:33] And they were just having a good old yarn.
[3:36] They would have been like in prep.
[3:37] And they were going off.
[3:39] They were like imitating teachers.
[3:41] They were like, yeah, yeah, and for F's sake.
[3:44] And this kid did this.
[3:44] And I thought, oh, F this little Emma Effa.
[3:48] How do you say it?
[3:48] Motherfucker.
[3:49] Mother Effa.
[3:49] I don't want to say it because we're using all of our F's.
[3:52] Oh, yes.
[3:53] No, that little kid's a mother effer.
[3:55] And all this, I was like, I walked in.
[3:56] I'm like, oh my God.
[3:58] Do you know what I love about the twins?
[3:59] When they're now in a really frustrated mood and they've lost a game or something, they like, Bex got a video.
[4:07] And one of the twins, it might've been Darcy actually.
[4:08] And he's looking at the bush and he's just got his fingers and he's going...
[4:13] And then he's just giving the finger, but like motorboat style.
[4:16] Well, this is what my boys, it was Tom.
[4:19] What Tom does is instead of letting out loud, audible Fs, because I said your principal at your new school, a street boys school, is not going to appreciate your F-bombs.
[4:30] So you've got to have another strategy.
[4:32] So now what he does is he goes over to the hedge, he turns his body so no one can see him, and he just gives like wild middle finger up.
[4:42] Like it's almost like a, what is it?
[4:43] It's like a speedboat.
[4:44] Like a speedboat into the bush and then he gets it out and in his head he's saying, F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-
[5:06] Hi darlings, it's Lisa B, long time friend, first time caller.
[5:14] Yeah, my son was taught how to spear a pig and kill a stingray.
[5:21] And that was all when he was four years old.
[5:24] Love you both.
[5:26] Oh, my God.
[5:29] I'm just howling.
[5:30] Oh, my God.
[5:31] Lisa should be doing sex calls.
[5:34] There used to be sex calls.
[5:36] Oh, there still is.
[5:37] Oh, she's different outside OnlyFans.
[5:38] Her voice.
[5:40] So good.
[5:40] Lisa B. Lisa B.
[5:42] Where art thou?
[5:43] You need to come on the show.
[5:44] I know.
[5:45] Oh, she's so... That voice.
[5:47] I mean, what was she even saying?
[5:48] I just couldn't get over how sexy her voice was.
[5:49] I know.
[5:50] Well, she was saying about her four-year-old son.
[5:52] Oh, learned how to spear a pig.
[5:54] I've done that when I was that age too.
[5:55] There's photographing evidence.
[5:57] Yeah, that's like in the bush, in the bush.
[5:59] And what was it?
[6:00] A stingray.
[6:01] And a stingray.
[6:02] At four.
[6:02] At four.
[6:03] Well, that's what you've got to do when you're a bush kid.
[6:04] Yeah.
[6:05] You've got to learn survival.
[6:06] Far, far, far North Queensland.
[6:08] I don't know if this is a bad thing.
[6:11] Like, is that a bad thing?
[6:12] No.
[6:12] Well, I think the pigs are feral.
[6:15] No, they're feral.
[6:16] They're feral, so you're allowed to kill them.
[6:18] I don't know about the stingray.
[6:18] Oh, yeah, the stingray, probably not.
[6:22] Oh my God, that is hectic.
[6:24] So good.
[6:24] I know, but you know what?
[6:26] I'm sure he's a beautiful...
[6:27] I know, I know he's a beautiful...
[6:28] He's providing dinner for the family.
[6:30] He's providing.
[6:30] Well done.
[6:31] Oh my God, so good.
[6:32] Next caller.
[6:33] Hello, hi, I'm Renee, and something my kids have learnt from other children that is wild and I didn't really know how to deal with, was not long ago my six-year-old daughter, that was a new one, came home from school.
[6:48] We were in the car leaving the school,
[6:50] And, hey, Mum, do you know how babies are made?
[6:53] And I have my two youngest children in the car as well.
[6:56] And I said, yes, I do know how they're made, sweetie.
[6:59] And she goes, oh, great, because my friend today, she told me that Mum and Dad get naked and Mum hops on top of Dad and she bounces up and down on his snake.
[7:11] And I'm just sat there in silence with my indicator on, turning left, thinking, how do I respond to this?
[7:20] So I said, oh, is that true?
[7:23] And she said, yeah, apparently what you told me is a lie, Mum.
[7:26] That Circus Haulet dance that you and Dad do isn't right.
[7:30] And I actually didn't know how to answer the question or respond.
[7:34] So we just turned the music up and kept driving.
[7:37] And any advice would be fantastic.
[7:39] I think honesty is the best policy.
[7:41] But, yeah, fun times.
[7:44] That is trauma.
[7:47] What would I do?
[7:49] I think I would probably go, well, it's not called a snake.
[7:53] Yeah.
[7:53] It's called this.
[7:54] I probably would go down a really scientific.
[7:57] Yeah, that's what I've always done.
[7:58] Yeah.
[7:58] And I remember you taught me that.
[8:00] You know, if you go, if you tell your children about the birds and the bees really young, but in a really scientific way, they don't ask too many questions.
[8:08] Give them just enough information so that they feel like they've been educated without actually saying the penis enters the vagina.
[8:17] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[8:18] So I reckon I would have turned that whole thing into a very scientific conversation.
[8:21] Yeah.
[8:22] Well, that's what I did with my first.
[8:23] Yeah.
[8:24] Make it about when women get their period and make it like how we reproduce and how boys reproduce and talk about the whole cycle and the egg and the sperm and when they meet, that's how a baby's made.
[8:35] And you give them all that info.
[8:36] They don't actually really ask any more questions.
[8:38] Yeah.
[8:39] With Oscar.
[8:39] So Oscar's my first...
[8:41] We were away on holiday.
[8:42] He was really young.
[8:43] And I think it was he saw some tampons.
[8:47] He's like, what are they?
[8:48] And I thought, oh, here we go.
[8:49] And I just said, oh, you know how like every month this is what happens to a woman and blah, blah, blah.
[8:54] And just told the whole science behind it.
[8:56] And then I think he was like, shit, I didn't…
[8:57] I didn't want that.
[8:58] Yeah, yeah.
[8:59] I was just hitting with all the info.
[9:00] So we've always just done it from a very kind of biological way.
[9:03] But I remember with Billie, I was telling her about it in a very scientific way.
[9:08] And she goes, oh, so every month when you get your period, it means it's because you're not having a baby.
[9:15] And I said, yes.
[9:17] Yes.
[9:18] And she goes, oh, that's good.
[9:19] So you're going to be getting your period a lot because you and dad don't need to do that anymore because you've finished.
[9:24] So you only have to do the thing to have a baby.
[9:29] And you said four's enough.
[9:31] So dad's never going to have to do that to you again, is he?
[9:36] Correct, Billy.
[9:37] Correct.
[9:46] We have a fun guest on today who I actually have a podcast history with.
[9:52] Stop.
[9:53] Yeah.
[9:53] You're so full of surprises.
[9:55] I know.
[9:55] Did you know I'd done a podcast before?
[9:57] No.
[9:57] On a network that shall not be named?
[9:59] Oh, my God.
[10:00] Stop.
[10:01] With this guest who's about to come on.
[10:03] Really?
[10:03] Yeah.
[10:04] Oh, my God.
[10:04] That was number one podcast.
[10:06] It was like a special series.
[10:07] Oh, my God.
[10:08] All about babies and pregnancy.
[10:10] Oh.
[10:10] Yeah.
[10:11] But we can talk about it once the guest is actually on.
[10:14] Yes.
[10:14] So we have this incredible obstetrician, Dr. Joseph Scroi.
[10:20] We love him.
[10:21] He's a Carlton fan, so we love him even more.
[10:23] He's helped a lot of our friends have babies and also help them with their IVF journeys.
[10:29] He's very active on social media as well.
[10:31] He's a great guy.
[10:33] And we thought we'd get someone on because, you know, when you're pregnant, you still want to look good, right?
[10:38] Mm-hmm.
[10:39] Right?
[10:40] Yes, you do.
[10:40] Especially when you're pregnant.
[10:42] Well, I did.
[10:43] I gave up.
[10:43] Did you?
[10:44] Yeah, I was like...
[10:44] Didn't you even put on your glam?
[10:46] No, I gave up.
[10:47] That was me.
[10:47] Like, you know, Britney Spears top knot, pajamas, like through Coles.
[10:51] Yeah.
[10:51] That's still very much relevant.
[10:53] But I literally just gave up on myself.
[10:55] I didn't wax, shave, shave.
[10:57] And was that because you couldn't be bothered or you didn't know what was safe?
[10:59] No, I just CBF.
[11:01] Oh, see, I was the opposite.
[11:03] I still wanted to do all the things, but I was unsure.
[11:07] But I think for me as well, like I was, like my Instagram was private.
[11:11] No one knew who I was.
[11:12] I just was like.
[11:13] Yeah, I was very media-facing.
[11:15] I was hosting a TV show, hosting a national radio show.
[11:18] And a podcast.
[11:18] And I had.
[11:19] Yeah, and a secret podcast.
[11:21] And I had paps outside my house every day, especially when I was pregnant with the twins.
[11:25] I had a paparazzo fly down and live in Melbourne just to follow me when I was pregnant.
[11:30] Oh, my gosh.
[11:31] It was so stalkerish.
[11:32] Oh, my gosh.
[11:33] So, yeah, look, I still wanted to do all the things.
[11:36] Yeah, we had to.
[11:36] I was not knowing, like, lasers, injectables, colouring your hair, spray tanning, all the things.
[11:43] So we have Dr. Joseph Scroy to come on.
[11:45] Now, one funny thing, I've been getting anti-wrinkle injections for a long time because I'm an old lady.
[11:54] And I would always keep them very regular.
[11:57] When I was pregnant with the twins, you can't get anti-wrinkle injections when you're pregnant.
[12:02] And towards the end of my pregnancy, my oldest son, Oscar, who would have been...
[12:08] Oh, five at the time.
[12:09] Five at the time.
[12:10] I'm talking to him.
[12:11] We're sitting in the car.
[12:12] He's sitting.
[12:13] And I'm kind of, I'm looking back at him and I'm talking.
[12:16] I'm moving my face.
[12:17] And he goes, whoa, whoa, mum, stop.
[12:19] Stop.
[12:20] What are those things on your face?
[12:23] And I'm like, what do you mean?
[12:24] What do you mean?
[12:24] He goes, like, these lines, like, on your forehead.
[12:27] Like, what are they?
[12:29] Yeah.
[12:30] I think you've told me this.
[12:32] Yes.
[12:32] And I'm like, hey, they're wrinkled.
[12:33] He's like, where have they come from?
[12:35] I'm like, they've always been there.
[12:36] All of your kids from getting and having no sleep, literally.
[12:40] Yeah, literally.
[12:41] Yeah.
[12:41] But yeah, because the anti-wrinkle had worn off.
[12:44] Yeah.
[12:44] And because it lasts me about three to four months usually.
[12:47] And then because I couldn't get any more, I started getting these lines on my forehead, which I do not have any more.
[12:53] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[12:53] But that was, yeah, when you could see them.
[12:55] And he was like, wow.
[12:56] whoa, what is going on with your face?
[12:59] Yeah.
[12:59] She said, what are those things on your face?
[13:01] That's so funny because like I had like River when I was 21.
[13:04] So I was like youthful and plump and everything.
[13:07] Scarlett, I was young too.
[13:08] But when I had Jagger, I was like 25, 26.
[13:11] Still young, still practically a child.
[13:14] But I put on so much weight that like I was so fluid retention that everything just smoothed out.
[13:20] So I think that's why I got away with not doing any of that stuff.
[13:23] Or not wanting to because you didn't need it.
[13:25] No, yeah, I didn't need you.
[13:26] You're so young.
[13:26] Well,
[13:27] Man, if I was pregnant now, I'd definitely get injectables.
[13:29] Cut that.
[13:31] Cut that.
[13:33] She didn't mean it.
[13:34] I didn't mean it.
[13:35] It was a joke.
[13:36] I would like to, but I wouldn't.
[13:38] Yes.
[13:39] And we're going to get Dr. Joseph Scroi on now to tell us all the reasons why we wouldn't and we shouldn't.
[13:45] Welcome, Dr. Joe.
[13:46] Thank you so much for having me.
[13:47] This is awesome.
[13:48] You and I, this isn't our first podcast studio together.
[13:50] Yeah.
[13:51] We had a number one podcast together.
[13:53] We did.
[13:54] I love it.
[13:55] And I've still got people who are listening to that podcast.
[13:57] I had a lady only the other day said she was in New York listening to this podcast, Hello Bump.
[14:01] And she said, oh, you know what?
[14:04] I listened to the podcast.
[14:05] It was awesome.
[14:06] And so I've come to see you for my pregnancy.
[14:09] Oh, no way.
[14:10] How good's that?
[14:10] So it's still going strong, I think.
[14:12] Oh, well, you're going to get a lot more pregnant people after this as well.
[14:15] So, yeah, Dr. Jo and I hosted a pregnancy podcast all about growing a baby and then the postnatal phase because I'd just come out of having four kids in three years or four.
[14:27] I don't even know.
[14:28] It's all been – my life's been a blur ever since.
[14:33] So, yeah, it's nice to see you again.
[14:34] Now talk to us about your qualifications.
[14:38] Well, I'm an obstetrician, gynecologist and fertility specialist.
[14:41] I do pretty much all of it, which is pretty good because I get to be able to see people preconceptionally all the way through just thinking about having babies, then through all their fertility journey if they need it, of course, and then through pregnancy and childbirth.
[14:55] So a bit of a continuum.
[14:56] I think a lot of doctors tend to be either just obstetricians or just gynecologists or just fertility specialists.
[15:00] I'm a obstetrician, gynecologist and fertility specialist.
[15:02] I'm
[15:02] I enjoy the variety and being able to look after a range of issues.
[15:06] Yeah.
[15:07] High achiever.
[15:08] Yeah.
[15:09] And then I guess after people have finished their reproductive journey, then as a gynecologist, you would see them as they go through the perimenopause and the menopause and it's like your whole –
[15:19] You've got a lot of females in your life.
[15:21] You've got daughters, right?
[15:22] I've got two daughters.
[15:23] I've got an almost 21-year-old and a 7-year-old.
[15:26] So very different in terms of age timeframes.
[15:29] But it's interesting, my practice has evolved.
[15:31] Like I've been out for almost 14 years now.
[15:34] So the women that I was caring for during their pregnancy and fertility now are a little bit older and they're starting to head into menopause.
[15:40] So it is a varied, varied practice.
[15:42] That's crazy.
[15:43] I love that.
[15:44] The pediatrician that I had for one of my babies,
[15:47] My mom was there and then my mom looks at him and goes,
[15:50] You were there for my daughter's birth.
[15:52] So, like, Dr. Pappas, he delivered me and then, like, he saw me being born and then did my kids.
[16:00] So, yeah.
[16:00] Have you had that moment yet?
[16:01] How long have you been catching babies for?
[16:03] No, only 14 years.
[16:04] I mean, to be honest, since 2008.
[16:07] So there probably could be, but I just don't know.
[16:09] But privately since 2014, so it's been a while.
[16:13] I think I've got a bit of time.
[16:14] You've got a bit of time.
[16:15] You do, you do, you do.
[16:16] I've seen the other end.
[16:16] Okay, so...
[16:18] We're here to talk about, obviously, beauty treatments through pregnancy because I think everyone's a little bit confused.
[16:23] There's a lot of blurred lines.
[16:25] So why does pregnancy make cosmetic and beauty treatments a bit more complicated?
[16:29] Well, I think the first thing is we're heading into pregnancy wanting the best for our babies.
[16:33] And also from an obstetrician's point of view, also wants best for the mother as well.
[16:39] And so everything that we're ingesting those 100 days before you become pregnant, you're really conscious, what am I putting into my body?
[16:45] What am I putting into my body?
[16:47] And the biggest organ in our body is actually our skin.
[16:49] So anything that we're putting on our skin has the potential to be absorbed and then obviously go into the maternal blood circulation and then theoretically into Bubba's as well.
[16:59] But there's obviously that concern initially about safety.
[17:03] And in addition to that also, what is that medication going to do to my baby?
[17:08] That's the
[17:09] And there's a lot of myths, there's a lot of misconceptions about what we can and can't do in terms of treatments for skin.
[17:15] And I'll preface this by saying that I'm not a dermatologist.
[17:19] I'd like to say I just passed dermatology at med school.
[17:24] But, you know, as an obstetrician, we get asked these questions all the time.
[17:27] What can I put on my skin?
[17:29] Yeah.
[17:29] And I think it's important that people know out there there's certain things you can do and certain things you can't do.
[17:33] But I think the overarching thing is, yeah, I'm worried about what's going to happen to my baby.
[17:37] Yeah.
[17:38] Yeah.
[17:38] So true.
[17:39] So true.
[17:39] So what are some treatments women often assume are harmless but you'd recommend avoiding during pregnancy?
[17:44] Yeah.
[17:45] So this is a really, it's an important topic and a lot of prescription-based medication.
[17:50] So when you've gone to a dermatologist specifically to get something or a cosmetic physician and you've specifically got something to put on your skin, it's been prescribed, it's been dispensed by a pharmacy.
[18:01] often they will have more potent type medication that potentially might have some concerns with respect to pregnancy.
[18:07] But let's say, for example, the retinoids, if they're being prescribed by a dermatologist, probably unsafe to use in pregnancy.
[18:15] But then something over the counter might be okay.
[18:18] And it really just depends on the type of medication.
[18:20] Yeah, because there are moisturizers, basic moisturizers that do have a little bit of vitamin A in them in small amounts.
[18:28] Correct.
[18:28] I often get this question because I'm an ambassador for the skincare company.
[18:31] Their hydrating moisture has a little bit in it.
[18:34] Yeah.
[18:34] And my followers always ask me,
[18:37] They're like, I see it's got vitamin A in it.
[18:39] Does that mean I can't use it in pregnancy?
[18:41] And I'm like, I actually don't know.
[18:42] I'm not a doctor.
[18:43] I'm not a dermatologist.
[18:44] Yeah.
[18:44] But it's more about the amount, the percentage, right?
[18:47] Correct, the prescription.
[18:48] So the prescription amounts are going to have very high doses.
[18:51] The reality is, however, even with something like vitamin A, the amount that you're absorbing is exceptionally low through the skin.
[18:57] Mm-hmm.
[18:58] So the ones that are over the counter are probably safe.
[19:01] And we wouldn't sort of, you know, that's a big misconception that you can't use those type of over the counter.
[19:06] Because you eat vitamin A too, right?
[19:07] You do.
[19:07] I mean, your food.
[19:08] Yeah.
[19:08] You can't have too much of it.
[19:10] And certainly vitamin A tablets, for example, if you're taking oral tablets, you wouldn't be able to have.
[19:15] But generally speaking, the ones that are over the counter would be safe because the dose is exceptionally low.
[19:21] Low, yeah.
[19:21] There are ones.
[19:22] I was just saying, talk to your doctor.
[19:23] I don't want that on me.
[19:24] Absolutely, absolutely.
[19:26] Yeah.
[19:26] And I think that's the most important thing with all of this, as qualified as I am, is that every single time you are doing something or you're using something, make sure you do speak to your local, either your GP or alternatively the obstetrician and midwife that's looking after you.
[19:40] Because, you know, this is very general what I'm talking about.
[19:43] I'm not specifically looking at the ingredients in the cosmetic range to say, hey, listen, it's absolutely safe.
[19:49] Yeah.
[19:50] So don't come to you with like, all my creams, but which ones can I use and not use?
[19:55] And then you have to go through and go, oh, that one, that one.
[19:58] Yes.
[19:58] Can I do that?
[20:01] People do.
[20:02] Asking for a friend.
[20:02] People do.
[20:03] But, I mean, you know, from my perspective, it's also about utilising my, you know, friends and medical friends as resources as well.
[20:09] So sometimes there might be something I don't know and it'd be foolish for me to say that I know everything about everything.
[20:14] So at that point in time, I'll say, hey, listen, is this safe in pregnancy?
[20:18] Yeah.
[20:18] I reckon that's a real flex admitting that you don't know everything about everything.
[20:22] Yeah.
[20:22] Because I think up until about...
[20:24] 26, 27.
[20:25] Most people think, young adults think they know everything about everything, especially nine-year-old boys.
[20:30] Yes, yes, yes.
[20:32] Don't you think it's like that age where you go, oh, wow.
[20:35] I actually don't know anything.
[20:36] Yeah, and I'm so confident in saying that it's actually the best.
[20:39] I know everything.
[20:39] So, ChatJPT tells me everything.
[20:45] Sorry, that was a side quest.
[20:46] It just made me think about how I think I was about 27 where I went, oh, wow.
[20:51] Yeah, I actually don't know a lot.
[20:52] Yeah.
[20:53] And I was the same.
[20:54] And it's, I know a lot about this, but not about these other things.
[20:58] And it's actually okay to say, I don't know about that.
[21:00] Yeah, it's so true.
[21:00] But these people do.
[21:01] Yeah.
[21:01] That's what they trained in.
[21:02] Yeah, exactly.
[21:03] Yeah.
[21:04] So treatments like anti-wrinkle injections are usually postponed during pregnancy.
[21:08] Is that because there's known risks or is it because it's not enough research?
[21:12] I think it's really difficult when you've got these sort of types of medications that are being used widespread to actually conduct a proper study.
[21:19] So if we said, okay, let's have 100 women that have anti-wrinkle injections and 100 women that don't and follow them up and see what happens to their babies, first of all, I don't think any woman would want to participate in that study because if there's a theoretical risk,
[21:33] you might sort of say to yourself, well, I actually don't want that theoretical risk.
[21:37] So that's part of the issue.
[21:38] So there's limited data.
[21:40] And in addition to that, as a result, we have limited safety data.
[21:43] So if we're not using it infrequently and we're not finding out what's happening, then at the end of the day, we don't really know what's going to happen down the track to Bubba's.
[21:51] So that's why certain, it's really difficult when you're pregnant.
[21:55] If something's elective, if you're doing a cosmetic treatment that is elective, it doesn't need to be done.
[22:02] then the question from your own perspective is, should you do it, number one, even if you knew that there was a 0.01% chance that it would do something.
[22:10] And so the reality is, particularly with anti-wrinkle injections, is we just don't know.
[22:15] Yeah, because no one's actually putting their head up going, oh, I'll be part of that test.
[22:18] A lot of people don't find out they're pregnant till late and they would have participated in anti-wrinkle treatments while they were pregnant and they didn't know they were pregnant.
[22:27] Has there ever been a study done on those people who then go to the obstetrician, oh my God, I'm pregnant and I got anti-wrinkle last month before I knew.
[22:34] I had a glass of wine before I peed on a test.
[22:36] Yeah, has there ever been those kind of looking backs?
[22:40] study?
[22:40] There hasn't, but we think inadvertent use is, I mean, it probably happens all the time, number one.
[22:46] And number two, then we're not seeing any flow on effects.
[22:48] I mean, it's important to remember, and this is what, you know, we live in a world where we think everything just comes out perfectly, right?
[22:55] We baby make, it's easy.
[22:57] And then all of a sudden we've got a baby and they're beautiful.
[23:00] But the reality is, you know, 3%, up to 3% of babies have some sort of deformity.
[23:05] And
[23:06] And so that might be a blue nevis or it might be a mole somewhere.
[23:10] That's just normal.
[23:12] And so a lot of this sort of stuff is, well, you know, babies are coming out, inadvertent exposure has happened, nothing really has changed.
[23:19] So we then say, okay, well, look, if you accidentally do something, it's probably not going to have a long-term effect on bubba.
[23:25] And certainly with the anti-wrinkle creams, the likelihood that that's going to get through the placenta is exceptionally low.
[23:31] And when does the placenta actually attach?
[23:34] So the placenta forms around about the 10-week mark and then starts taking over full production of hormones.
[23:39] Yeah.
[23:40] So there would be some kind of protective element, I'm thinking, in the first 10 weeks if you've accidentally gone out and had too much champagne because you didn't know you were pregnant.
[23:48] Does it still get into the baby?
[23:49] Yeah, it still gets... How does that happen?
[23:52] Well, it's obviously going through mum as well.
[23:55] So vitamin A, for example, is exceptionally...
[23:57] You know, you don't want to have vitamin A early on in pregnancy because it can lead to miscarriage and it can lead to deformities in bubbers, particularly in the first 7 to 12 weeks.
[24:06] That's when all the organs are starting to form in the baby.
[24:08] Yeah.
[24:09] So implantations occurred but the placenta's not attached yet.
[24:12] The placenta's starting to form.
[24:14] And by 10 weeks it's fully formed.
[24:16] Yeah.
[24:16] It's a small surface area.
[24:18] It's very small.
[24:18] The amount and concentration going through small, but the amount and concentration that needs to affect the baby only needs to be small.
[24:25] Yeah.
[24:26] Yeah, good to know.
[24:26] Because I think a lot of people go, oh, you don't have to be that careful because the baby doesn't actually.
[24:31] Yes, I always thought like, I've had so much alcohol, it's over summer, and then the whole like...
[24:37] I had in my head.
[24:38] You were okay.
[24:39] It was a... Well, I thought there's no heartbeat until like the six-week mark.
[24:42] So I thought that might... You know, it's like a shield.
[24:44] It's covered.
[24:45] It's got a few cells.
[24:46] Yeah, but it's not true.
[24:48] Yeah.
[24:49] Yeah.
[24:49] And I think if you are contemplating pregnancy, I mean, just with alcohol, not that we're talking about alcohol, but, you know, you want to be effectively when you are two weeks pregnant is when you've ovulated.
[24:59] Yeah.
[25:00] So you want to be...
[25:00] If you are contemplating pregnancy, trying to detox as much as you possibly can is going to be really important.
[25:06] Yeah.
[25:06] Yeah.
[25:07] All right, let's go through some of the cosmetic treatments people ask about the most.
[25:10] Me personally, when I was pregnant, I was hosting a travel show, postcards on Channel 9.
[25:18] I was doing weather live every week on Channel 9.
[25:22] I was hosting a radio show.
[25:23] I was so public-facing and I still wanted to look my best.
[25:28] So I openly admit I'm vain.
[25:31] I also need to look after my appearance from my job.
[25:34] And I'd partake in...
[25:36] outside of my pregnancies and lots of lasers and chemical peels and microneedling and IPL hair removal and anti-wrinkle and fillers and everything.
[25:44] So this is for the girlies who are like me because Jess was like when she was pregnant she was zero fucks, right?
[25:49] Yeah, yeah, I did nothing.
[25:50] Yeah, I did nothing.
[25:52] So I was the one asking my obstetrician, Dr. Lynn Clemen, can I get this, can I get this?
[25:55] It's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[25:57] Let's go through the treatments that people ask about the most, who are a bit like me, a bit more like me when I was pregnant, a bit more of a vanish girly.
[26:04] Injectables, any injectable, biostimulator, anti-wrinkle filler.
[26:09] Yeah, again, being elective and probably because we don't know specifically how that's going to get down to baby, probably anything injectable is probably not considered to be safe.
[26:18] Salmon sperm?
[26:19] Yeah, exactly, salmon sperm.
[26:21] That's the new one.
[26:22] That's the new one.
[26:23] So, look, I would say anything that's injectable, anything that's prescribed by a doctor, and again, those sort of things are prescribed by a doctor, two things.
[26:32] Number one, I'd speak to the doctor that's prescribing it to you, and second of all, I'd probably say on that basis it's safe
[26:38] probably something to avoid.
[26:39] Okay.
[26:40] Yep.
[26:40] Laser treatments?
[26:42] So look, I think hair removal laser treatments are fine.
[26:45] One of the things that happens in pregnancy, of course, is the massive changes in terms of a woman's body.
[26:50] And that's largely based around estrogen and progesterone production.
[26:54] That causes a whole range of changes within our skin or the woman's skin.
[26:58] So, you know, you get more vascularity and you can get more nevi, like little spots.
[27:03] You can get more rashes.
[27:05] There's a change in the immune system.
[27:07] So a lot of women get immune responses.
[27:08] So any damage you're doing to the skin, like laser or peels or needling, and sometimes microneedling is okay, but any of those things might have a different effect in pregnancy than they do when you're not pregnant.
[27:21] And so you might expect a certain outcome and it turns out to be something completely different.
[27:26] Yeah.
[27:26] And so that's when there's a bit of a problem because you're doing it for cosmetic reasons, right?
[27:29] Yeah.
[27:30] You want to look better, not worse.
[27:31] Yeah.
[27:32] And especially in that time, like it's a long time.
[27:35] Some are, but some aren't feeling that confident about themselves.
[27:38] No, their bodies are changing.
[27:39] I just want a little facial.
[27:40] I just want that pregnancy glow that everyone talks about that I don't have.
[27:43] Yeah.
[27:43] The pregnancy glow thing is a wonderful myth, isn't it?
[27:45] Because we all want that pregnancy glow.
[27:48] But the reality is all these hormonal changes are causing, you know, different patterns to your skin.
[27:53] You're going to get melasma.
[27:54] So, you know, discolourage.
[27:55] Yes, melasma is so annoying.
[27:57] Why do we get melasma?
[27:58] Melasma.
[27:59] So it's an activation of the melanocytes as a result of probably estrogen and progesterone production.
[28:04] And then women will also get something called a linear nigra.
[28:07] Still got mine.
[28:08] Yeah.
[28:08] Still got it after the twins.
[28:10] Oh, yeah.
[28:10] Isn't that crazy?
[28:12] It was so dark and I think I've got it forever.
[28:14] I kind of like it.
[28:14] That's like a little reminder.
[28:16] You did good, Tommy.
[28:16] You did good, yeah.
[28:17] You grew two bloody humans.
[28:19] I didn't get a stretch mark either.
[28:20] No, I didn't.
[28:21] But I got a linear nigra.
[28:22] Got a linear nigra.
[28:23] Yeah, I like that.
[28:23] So that's related to...
[28:25] The melanocytes.
[28:26] The melanocytes.
[28:27] And our bodies, when they form, they form like a cylinder and then they meld together in the middle.
[28:32] And so the concentration of the melanocytes, particularly in the tummy, are at a higher concentration.
[28:36] So that's when you get those melanocytes firing off and you get that linear nigra.
[28:41] Yeah.
[28:41] That's so interesting.
[28:42] This is really interesting.
[28:44] My girlfriend just had a baby recently and she's got a really dark one, you know, and then she said, apparently it's for the baby that they look at it to like go up to the nipple.
[28:53] Oh, it's like a trail of like dropped little breadcrumbs to lead to the nipple.
[28:57] And the nipples are so dark and big.
[28:59] It's like follow the path.
[29:00] Yes.
[29:01] Follow the yellow brick road.
[29:03] But like, is that true?
[29:04] Like Hansel and Gretel.
[29:05] Yeah.
[29:07] It's like the baby, like it comes out and then it has like a little road to get to the boob and she's convinced that that's what it is.
[29:14] Is that a myth?
[29:15] Oh, I reckon that's a myth.
[29:16] Okay.
[29:20] That's so funny.
[29:21] At least that's what I thought it was.
[29:22] Yeah.
[29:23] Anyway, it's not true.
[29:24] It's not true, guys.
[29:25] Interesting what you said about the vascularity when you're pregnant because one thing I noticed in a lot of my girlfriends, especially after like their second, third baby or multiple pregnancy, is all the broken capillaries.
[29:40] And they're on the barricade veins, the back of the leg.
[29:43] There's one really pretty one that comes like out of your vagina and goes down your leg, goes through your groin.
[29:49] That one, I've had to have that one fixed.
[29:51] Like everything just, there's spider veins exploding everywhere.
[29:55] I know.
[29:56] What's that about?
[29:57] A couple of things, really.
[29:58] I mean, you've got, you know, this massive basketball that's sitting inside your pelvis.
[30:03] And as a result of that, you can imagine the pressure.
[30:06] If you think about all your veins as if they're like a hose, if I go kink one part of the hose and everything backtracking to where the tap is, that's going to increase in pressure.
[30:16] And that's what happens with, you know, your varicose veins.
[30:18] And so if you've got this basketball sitting in your pelvis, it's going to come... Two, yeah.
[30:23] Pressing down on all the veins that are in your pelvis, that's going to then put back pressure towards your legs.
[30:29] And so, I mean, I had a woman only, what was it, last week who presented to hospital with just flooding blood.
[30:36] It was just like this blood and everyone was convinced that this was coming from the baby.
[30:40] And she actually had a varicosity on a vulva.
[30:42] Ah.
[30:43] That was just pissing.
[30:44] Pissing out blood.
[30:47] It was shooting out.
[30:50] It was oozing out.
[30:51] It wasn't oozing out.
[30:52] It was coming out.
[30:53] It's just like free flow.
[30:55] You can imagine how stressful that is for someone who's pregnant, you know, at 28 weeks to have blood just coming out because you're ultimately thinking it's something with the baby.
[31:04] But a natural factor was just a varicocity that was just bleeding heavily.
[31:08] And what did you do?
[31:08] You just cauterize it?
[31:09] Yeah, you just can cauterize it and stop it.
[31:12] And that's actually happened twice to me now, you know, where everyone's completely freaking out because there's blood there.
[31:17] But it's just that back pressure.
[31:19] And so, you know, simple things, you know, we say simple things.
[31:22] In summer it's a little bit harder.
[31:23] But TED stockings or compression stockings, you can get compression shorts.
[31:27] They can help for the varicosities in the vulva.
[31:30] But, yeah, I mean...
[31:32] Pregnancy is a wonderful thing, isn't it?
[31:33] But there are these... Oh, mate.
[31:36] It's not comfortable.
[31:38] It's beautiful, but not comfortable.
[31:40] So can you get the little spider veins that you do get on your legs, can you get them treated while being pregnant?
[31:45] I don't think so.
[31:46] I mean, I think, as I said before, laser hair is okay.
[31:48] It's probably just the reaction of what's going to happen afterwards.
[31:51] Again, I'm no laser expert, so I'd probably defer that to a cosmetic physician.
[31:56] But I would probably wait until after pregnancy because you've got all those hormones raging.
[32:01] It's just going to get worse anyway.
[32:02] You might as well do it all at one go instead of like...
[32:05] Correct.
[32:06] Speaking from personal experience, after I had my twins and then I was done with having babies and I had so many little spider veins on the backs of my legs...
[32:14] and I'd go and I'd get them, it's called sclerotherapy, and I'd go and get the injections and they would resolve intermittently, but they would always come back.
[32:23] So every 12 months I'd go back and be like, oh, they've come back.
[32:27] And the vascular surgeon said to me, it's because...
[32:31] you've got a varicose vein internally and it's just going to keep leaking.
[32:35] And this is what we're seeing is the spider veins, but it's representative of something deeper within that's going on.
[32:39] I did an ultrasound and then I had all these leaking varicose veins.
[32:43] So that's what we had to treat.
[32:45] So I imagine like if you were pregnant, if you were just treating the spider veins, you're just going to come back and keep coming back and keep coming back.
[32:51] Until you get that.
[32:51] varicose vein that's in the middle of your leg gone.
[32:53] Yeah.
[32:54] And that's a whole other episode of Vanish.
[32:55] That's a whole other episode.
[32:56] Because that was, I did that six months ago.
[32:58] Oh, I remember.
[32:59] And I'm still.
[33:00] Yeah, you picked me up from the hospital.
[33:01] I'm always picking her up from hospital.
[33:03] Yeah.
[33:04] So what's that, fourth, fifth thing you picked me up from?
[33:06] I'm surprised I'm not in your emergency.
[33:07] I may emergency your contact now.
[33:09] Yes.
[33:09] Stuff my husband.
[33:10] Medical power of attorney, I'd ask.
[33:12] Medical power of attorney is me.
[33:14] It is actually, Jess.
[33:15] That is.
[33:16] I will never turn your life support off, trust me.
[33:18] You'll be sitting there eventually, hey, baby.
[33:20] How are you going?
[33:20] That's so funny.
[33:21] You just be making sure she looks beautiful.
[33:23] Oh, yes, always.
[33:23] I have her hair done, make sure she gets her lasers, her anti-wrinkles while you're lying there.
[33:29] Yeah, you would.
[33:30] I would.
[33:30] You're not dying.
[33:31] I'm going to keep you alive.
[33:33] Yeah, can you wax my moustache while I'm under?
[33:35] I'll bleach it, babe.
[33:35] Thanks, babe.
[33:37] I'll bleach it.
[33:37] And any pimples, get rid of them.
[33:39] I will, yep.
[33:39] Yeah, and any stray hairs, pluck them.
[33:42] I'll pluck them, babe.
[33:43] So, Juddy wouldn't be able to do that.
[33:44] No, I'll do it all.
[33:44] I'll do it all for you, babe.
[33:45] I'll do it all.
[33:47] So, chemical peels.
[33:48] Yeah, again, the same sort of thing.
[33:50] I think part of these things are just what's going to happen to the reaction in terms of how your skin normally reacts outside of pregnancy compared to inside of pregnancy.
[33:58] So again, I'd probably say no to that.
[34:01] You'd be wanting a desired result that you don't get and then you're upset about it.
[34:04] And I guess it's also like a chemical pill is quite strong.
[34:07] It's almost like a retinoid.
[34:08] Like, you know, all your vitamin A's are strong.
[34:10] Yeah.
[34:11] It's got the AHAs and the BHAs.
[34:13] Yeah.
[34:13] They're quite stripping.
[34:14] Yeah.
[34:15] I remember when I was pregnant, I just did the things that I was approved to do.
[34:20] It's all very, what's the word?
[34:22] Low key.
[34:23] Yeah.
[34:23] Fluffy.
[34:23] Yeah.
[34:24] More feel good.
[34:25] It was more for like...
[34:27] your well-being and a nice fluffy experience than doing anything actually cosmetic, like a hydrafacial and a laser genesis, which isn't like a proper laser, it's just like a nice one that stimulates collagen.
[34:39] It was all pretty safe.
[34:40] I think that's the thing that most pregnant women are kind of allowed to do.
[34:47] Yeah.
[34:48] Laser genesis?
[34:48] More fluffy.
[34:49] A fluffy one.
[34:50] Fluffy feel good.
[34:51] It's mine never matter.
[34:52] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[34:54] So LED light therapy.
[34:57] Again, I'd probably defer that to someone who specifically knows about LED therapy.
[35:02] It's probably the same thing as I said before, just how your body's going to react.
[35:06] I think the standard principles about all treatments in terms of pregnancy are that you can use over-the-counter stuff, so glycolic acid, acillic acid,
[35:16] salicylates.
[35:17] AHAs and BHAs.
[35:17] AHAs and BHAs.
[35:18] They're fine in the creams.
[35:20] Benzoyl peroxide can be used.
[35:22] So these are things for acne, light pigmentation.
[35:27] As I said before, creams that have vitamin A that you can get over the counter, they're going to be safe.
[35:32] Things that we're going to try to avoid, hydroquinone, that's used for making your skin lighter.
[35:37] Because, again, that's been written by a prescription from a doctor, minoxidil.
[35:42] Again, the same sort of thing.
[35:43] You're not going to use that sort of stuff because it's been written as a prescription from a doctor.
[35:47] So I think anything that's...
[35:48] Prescription.
[35:49] Prescription-based is generally avoided.
[35:52] And I think anything where you're doing specific damage to the skin, because, you know, all these laser treatments and all that sort of stuff and the peels, they're all about initially causing damage to cause repair.
[36:03] That's where it's going to be a bit different in terms of how your body reacts inside and outside of pregnancy.
[36:16] Even though, yes, we sound super vain asking all these questions.
[36:19] Can we do this?
[36:20] Can we do that?
[36:20] Like at the end of the day, it's nine months out of your life.
[36:24] It's a lot.
[36:24] And it goes pretty quick.
[36:27] Like looking back, it goes so quick.
[36:29] Did it?
[36:29] And you can get all the stuff after.
[36:31] After you've finished breastfeeding.
[36:32] That's another question.
[36:34] I know when you're in it, because I've been in it going, oh, I'm having a bad body image day.
[36:38] I'm growing these babies and I'm like wrinkly and I'm not feeling great and I want to do all these things.
[36:46] But then now looking back, it's kind of like, wow, those pregnancies actually went pretty quickly.
[36:50] Yeah.
[36:50] I look back now and, you know, as I said, I've got a 20-year-old who's up in the Gold Coast studying and I've got a seven-year-old and you just see how – I mean, life does go by pretty quickly.
[36:59] Yeah.
[37:00] You know, it was a flash of an instance you see your 20-year-old gone out of the house.
[37:05] See your dad.
[37:06] I'm out.
[37:06] Yeah.
[37:07] So, I mean – Dad's so young to lose a child out of your home to go and study.
[37:13] You're like, that's – I was a mum at 21.
[37:15] Yeah.
[37:16] So was my mom.
[37:17] She was pregnant at 19.
[37:18] Yeah, literally.
[37:19] My husband left home.
[37:20] He got drafted.
[37:21] He was gone the next day interstate.
[37:22] Boom, gone.
[37:23] Let's talk about everyday beauty treatments in salons.
[37:27] So I'm thinking like getting your nails done, spray tans, waxing, your hair colours.
[37:33] That's a big one.
[37:34] Everyone wants to know, can I get my roots done?
[37:35] Can I get bleach on my hair?
[37:36] Talk to us about salon treatments.
[37:38] So again, salon treatments are safe.
[37:40] I know that's one of the biggest myths a lot of women will sort of avoid dyeing their hair.
[37:44] For example, in the first trimester, you can dye your hair.
[37:46] Because the amount of chemicals that are actually going to sit on the hair or actually on the scalp for that period of time is going to be quite minimal.
[37:54] And it's only going to be there for a short amount of time.
[37:56] And the absorption is low.
[37:57] So dyeing your hair is going to be absolutely fine.
[38:00] doing acrylics, you know, doing your nails.
[38:02] The most important thing, I suppose, in any of these sort of things is you want to be in a well-ventilated space because you do inhale a lot of stuff.
[38:10] So, for example, spray tans, DHA, if you're applying it to yourself, that's fine.
[38:15] If you're in a booth, you want to make sure you're not breathing anymore.
[38:18] inhaling that.
[38:19] So again, a well-ventilated space is going to be particularly important.
[38:22] But generally speaking, all the standard sort of salon treatments are going to be fine.
[38:28] Absolutely.
[38:28] And even massages, I mean, they're going to be fine as well.
[38:31] Yeah.
[38:31] Okay.
[38:32] Are there any ways that you should lie on a massage table?
[38:35] When I was pregnant, they'd just lie you on your side and they'd put a cushion under your belly.
[38:39] Others...
[38:40] There was a special massage table with the belly hole cut out and for your boobs.
[38:44] So you put like – because you know like lying on your tummy and your boobs when you're pregnant is so painful.
[38:49] So you put your breasts in a hole and then you put your belly in a hole.
[38:52] I'd be so scared that like the baby's going to fall out.
[38:55] Yeah.
[38:56] But then I'm going to get stretch marks because the baby's like –
[38:58] Falling?
[38:59] Yeah, what do you think for pregnancy?
[39:01] Massage?
[39:02] Massage is fine.
[39:02] I think the thing that we... How do we lie?
[39:04] Yeah, so the thing is, again, using that analogy of a basketball sitting in your belly, you've also got the major vein called the inferior vena cava, which is draining blood back up to your heart.
[39:14] And then from your heart, obviously, it's pumping around blood towards the placenta.
[39:18] So if you've got pressure on that inferior vena cava,
[39:22] decreasing blood flow, that decreased blood flow to the heart means decreased blood flow around the body.
[39:26] So we do want to lie on our side.
[39:28] And it doesn't really matter to a certain degree, it doesn't matter which side.
[39:31] I mean, if we're in an emergency situation as obstetrician, it's always on the left side.
[39:36] Yeah, exactly.
[39:37] On the left side for recovery.
[39:38] But that's why when you're doing your massages and you're pregnant, they should really have you on your side.
[39:43] Absolutely.
[39:44] That's why I fainted four times a day.
[39:46] Because you're lying on your back?
[39:47] No, I have scoliosis, that nerve.
[39:49] Vague on it?
[39:50] Yes.
[39:51] It was like it's all not in line.
[39:53] And so when I would wake up in the morning, the baby would be sitting on my back.
[39:56] You know how like when you wake up in the morning, you've got a smaller belly and then it goes out as the day goes on?
[40:01] Before 11 o'clock, get up, faint, faint, faint, faint, faint.
[40:05] Like I couldn't drive.
[40:06] It was a nightmare.
[40:07] Did you ever like hit your head or were you in any dangerous situation?
[40:10] Yeah, I fainted on the telemarine freeway with my car still going.
[40:14] Like it went across all the lanes, all like police, ambulance, all rocking up.
[40:20] Did it hit the news?
[40:21] Yeah.
[40:24] No.
[40:25] Before everyone was filming on an iPhone.
[40:27] No, I don't know.
[40:28] I don't think it did because it was kind of like bumping and bumping.
[40:30] She was fainted.
[40:30] She was unconscious.
[40:31] I was unconscious.
[40:32] She didn't see.
[40:32] But the funny thing is like I kind of came to and then I could hear this tick, tick, tick, tick thinking I've crashed into something.
[40:37] Yeah.
[40:38] And the ticking was like the car was about to explode.
[40:40] So you just see this woman like seven months pregnant opening up the door and literally like...
[40:46] army rolling out of the car.
[40:48] What was the tick, tick, tick?
[40:49] Well, I think it's just like all my senses were coming back, like hearing.
[40:52] And you thought it was like a Hollywood movie and the car was about to explode.
[40:55] About to explode because I didn't know because I was out if someone crashed into me anyway.
[40:58] Yeah, wow.
[40:59] But that was that nerve that was not running in a certain way.
[41:02] But it wasn't because I was like sleeping on my back in the middle of the night.
[41:05] I think it's just.
[41:06] No, the pressure.
[41:06] Yeah, it just would fall.
[41:07] Yeah, anyway.
[41:08] That's icky.
[41:09] Oh, God.
[41:09] So don't lie on your back while you're pregnant, guys, or you'll faint.
[41:12] If you've got Scully Iceland.
[41:13] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[41:14] Okay, so waxing.
[41:17] What is your thoughts on that?
[41:17] Because obviously it's near the delivery area.
[41:21] Just like with bacteria and stuff, is there a risk at all or...?
[41:24] So again, the skin can become quite irritant.
[41:27] And so a lot of women will use either some form of depilatory cream or alternatively waxing, which is safe.
[41:33] I suppose the only thing is just to be mindful that it can be an irritant and that can sometimes cause an escoriation to the skin, which then can, if there is bacteria around, can lead to a bacterial infection.
[41:43] Look, it's very uncommon.
[41:45] You know, if you're keeping the area dry and clean, likelihood of anything major happening is going to be exceptionally low.
[41:51] And most women, if they do it, may find that irritation, again, different in terms of pregnancy as it would be outside of pregnancy.
[41:59] What about laser hair removal there then?
[42:01] Yeah, that's okay.
[42:01] That's all right?
[42:02] Even though the laser's quite a bright light.
[42:04] So it's going very superficially.
[42:06] I mean, I've got to be honest, probably five, ten years ago I would have said no laser treatments at all.
[42:10] But in actual fact, there's been new evidence to say that PL's fine.
[42:14] Yeah.
[42:15] To remove.
[42:15] Yeah.
[42:16] We all get waxes and lasers and stuff before we deliver.
[42:18] Duh.
[42:18] Did you?
[42:21] Yeah.
[42:21] Did you?
[42:22] Yeah, of course.
[42:22] That was actually the one thing I did do.
[42:24] Yeah, just before delivery, I'd get a blow wave.
[42:27] I did do a blow wave.
[42:28] Blow wave, spray tan, get your nails done.
[42:29] Didn't do a spray tan because I wanted the baby to smell my skin and not the spray tan skin.
[42:34] I actually never spray tanned when I was pregnant.
[42:36] I just didn't like the smell and the DHS.
[42:38] It's just the thought of it seeping into my skin.
[42:40] It wasn't about it.
[42:41] But I did do a blow wave and I did do a wax.
[42:43] Yeah.
[42:44] Nails?
[42:45] No, I didn't do nails.
[42:45] That's my new journey.
[42:46] Same.
[42:47] Yeah.
[42:47] I've never been a nail girly.
[42:48] No.
[42:49] I've only been doing it recently.
[42:50] It's only since I've been taking my medication that I can sit there, my ADHD medication, that I can finally sit there and get my nails done.
[42:57] But before that, I couldn't.
[42:58] I'm only getting it done because all our friends have shamed me for so long into it that once I had it done, they're like, oh, my God, Rebecca, you got your nails done.
[43:05] So now I just bloody get them done every two weeks.
[43:06] So you're a jury ambassador.
[43:07] You have to have your good fingers.
[43:08] Exactly.
[43:10] Right off.
[43:10] Right off.
[43:12] So supplements.
[43:14] Are there any pregnancy-safe beauty supplements that might help support skin health?
[43:18] We're thinking, you know, collagen and things like that.
[43:21] Yeah, so collagen is safe in pregnancy and you've just got to look at the ingredients.
[43:25] And again, looking at things like vitamin A, for example, but there's a lot of benefit in terms of taking collagen.
[43:31] But then it doesn't really...
[43:32] Taking collagen is no substitute for just a good, healthy diet, a Mediterranean-based diet, lots of healthy fats.
[43:40] protein, so you want to have a good amount of protein during pregnancy, sort of about 1.1 grams per kilogram, your body weight.
[43:47] And then taking vitamin B, vitamin C, vitamin D, folate, iron, iodine, whatever's in your general pregnancy multivitamin.
[43:55] You being healthy, a healthy person is going to have a healthy skin as well.
[44:00] So a lot of that's going to be particularly important.
[44:03] And you can use those standard treatments that we talked about before.
[44:06] They're totally and utterly safe as well.
[44:09] Stretch marks, you know, at the end of the day, in terms of stretch marks, there's not a lot of evidence that anything works, like bio oils or anything like that.
[44:16] Partly because it's probably a massive genetic predisposition.
[44:20] How well your belly expands, your skin elasticity, how big and quickly it rapidly grows.
[44:26] Like if you, you know, all of a sudden you're going from zero to 100, well, then the skin's going to stretch a lot quicker than it naturally would.
[44:33] and also cortisol levels flying around.
[44:35] So I think a lot of it's got to do with just, you know, your good genetics.
[44:39] And if mum didn't get stretch marks, well, then you're likely not to get stretch marks.
[44:43] I was the only one in my entire family that didn't get stretch marks.
[44:47] Out of my...
[44:48] Same.
[44:48] But this is actually the one thing I did that was really vain, and I might want to cut this out because you might judge me.
[44:53] Say it, then we'll decide.
[44:54] This is messed up.
[44:55] So...
[44:57] So the belly bands that you get from your physio, so you get one like every single week.
[45:03] And so you go by your weekly things.
[45:05] It's like you have 12 weeks, you have the 12-week belly band.
[45:08] I'd go in and do like the 16 weeks, get my 16-week belly band, but I'd still wear my 12-week one on.
[45:14] So it was like sucked everything in.
[45:17] You were doing a Bridgerton sort of style.
[45:19] Yes.
[45:19] Probably why I was fainting a lot more as well.
[45:22] I can't be to think of it.
[45:23] I do not recommend this.
[45:24] Because I literally, I would wear, and so I'd go into the physio, and they're like, oh, you know, here's your next, you know, belly band thing, and I'd get them all.
[45:32] So by the time I was like 30 weeks pregnant, I was still wearing like 25-week belly band thing.
[45:38] But it was weird.
[45:39] When I took the belly band off, my stomach went from here to,
[45:42] to like here.
[45:43] And then I was like, I'm going to get stretch marks and I'd pull it back on.
[45:46] And I'd sleep with it, have it on all the time.
[45:49] So what's Dr. J?
[45:50] Well, I think you were pushing your basketball down into the pelvis a lot more.
[45:53] That's probably why I was fainting now, to think about it as I say it out loud.
[45:57] Push the basketball back into your pelvis and then faint it on the Tullamarine freeway because you didn't want to get stretch marks.
[46:04] Okay, that is vain-ish.
[46:06] That's very vain.
[46:07] That was very, because I was the only one that, it's in my family, stretch marks are through my entire family.
[46:13] So I thought, I've got to avoid this somehow.
[46:15] If I just look smaller than what I am and have no time for the baby to like,
[46:20] contract my stomach out, then it might work.
[46:22] You're lucky you didn't end up with a handful of hemorrhoids coming out of your butt hole.
[46:27] Oh, no, I did.
[46:28] There you go.
[46:29] There's always a cost to vanity, guys.
[46:32] There's always a cost.
[46:33] Always a cost.
[46:34] So Beck and I both get cold sores.
[46:36] I used to get them all the time when I was pregnant.
[46:38] And I would go to the pharmacy and they're like, you can't have it because you're pregnant.
[46:41] What's the go with that?
[46:42] Is it still?
[46:43] So acyclovir is, generally speaking, the topical cream that we use that's safe in pregnancy.
[46:48] So cold sores.
[46:49] And look, you know, some women will also get genital cold sores, for want of a better word, and often will use Val-Ale-Cyclovir as tablets in order to prevent recurrences as they're heading towards birth because we want to reduce the risk that there might be any HSV, so the herpes simplex virus, at the time of birth because we don't want that passing on to the baby.
[47:10] So, yeah, it's totally safe.
[47:12] I mean, one of the things about pharmacists, and I can say this because my dad's a pharmacist and my sister is, sometimes they will over-call things.
[47:20] We'll use things, for example, like aspirin in pregnancy pretty routinely to prevent preeclampsia, for example, and the pharmacist will say, no, no, no, you can't use that.
[47:28] And so often I'll say to the patient, if the pharmacist is saying stuff that I've said that you can use, then get them to give me a call
[47:37] because there might be a valid reason why your doctor is specifically saying you can use something.
[47:43] But remember that pharmacists are almost like a bit of a gatekeeper.
[47:46] We want them to actually question us as medical practitioners.
[47:49] I always like it when they pick up the phone and say, hey, Jo, do you reckon this is the right thing to do?
[47:54] Because that's what they're there for.
[47:56] They're there as a gatekeeper, so to speak.
[47:58] Yeah, 100%.
[47:59] They're doing their job.
[48:00] Everyone just wants the best outcome for a patient.
[48:03] There's a really good website that doctors tend to use in pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding where we can actually plug in any drug and work out specifically when is it safe in the first trimester, safe in the second trimester, safe in the third trimester.
[48:17] And there are some hospitals around Melbourne that will actually provide a patient service as well where you can ring up and say, hey, listen, I'm on this medication.
[48:24] Is it safe?
[48:25] Yeah.
[48:26] Okay.
[48:26] There's a drug information line that's both at the Royal Women's Hospital and also at Monash Medical Centre.
[48:32] And so they're very good at being able to sort of help people navigate what type of medication.
[48:36] But look, if you're getting prescribed something, as I said earlier, make sure you're just speaking to your medical practitioner because they're going to be the ones that can look it up easily and quickly and will also know about it.
[48:47] Yeah.
[48:48] Can you get anti-wrinkle injections while breastfeeding and biostimulants, like all of that?
[48:52] Again, it's one of those things where it's, again, elective.
[48:55] We know that the amount of any anti-wrinkle medication that's going across to the breast milk is going to be exceptionally low to be zero.
[49:03] How do I know that there's not going to be absolutely anything?
[49:06] I'm not.
[49:06] And so, again, it's the same thing about research.
[49:09] Is anyone going to do a trial that says, let's go with 100 women who are breastfeeding their baby, have your anti-wrinkle cream?
[49:15] And that don't and then say, is everything going to be okay?
[49:18] And we're unlikely to be able to run a trial like that.
[49:21] Yeah, because no one's going to put their baby at risk.
[49:23] No.
[49:23] Yeah.
[49:23] And we'd never get ethics approval anyway, that one.
[49:27] No way.
[49:27] No way.
[49:28] So what do you recommend to your patients?
[49:29] Just say, I've just had my baby and I come to you postpartum check, six weeks later I'm breastfeeding and I'm like, oh, I really need to get rid of these wrinkles.
[49:38] When can I get back on the horse?
[49:39] Yeah.
[49:40] First of all, I'd speak to the person that's doing the anti-wrinkle cream because they're going to give you their advice.
[49:45] But from my perspective, you know, I'd probably say, why don't you stop breastfeeding?
[49:49] Yeah.
[49:49] Which, you know, for most women now is six to 12 months.
[49:53] What's the one beauty rule every pregnant woman should follow?
[49:57] Well, I think one of the most important things really, and this is true, I'm starting to, you know, I hit the ripe old age of 50, so I'm starting to look at myself and probably be a bit vainish as well.
[50:08] So I will vain at 15.
[50:11] You look like you're almost 50.
[50:13] You look very fresh.
[50:16] It's Italian.
[50:16] So it's Italian.
[50:17] It's the Italian skin.
[50:18] I love it.
[50:19] It's about hydration, isn't it?
[50:20] Yes.
[50:21] Well, I come out of the wrong uterus.
[50:23] God.
[50:24] I think the most important thing is sunscreen, and I've worked that out now.
[50:27] I mean, I've been fortunate that I'm not sitting out in the sun every day, but, you know, the thing that I've been told is sunscreen, sunscreen, and, of course, hydration.
[50:35] Anything hydrating is going to be good for your skin as well.
[50:38] That's going to be the mainstay of anything, and particularly because women will find they get that pigmentation during pregnancy.
[50:44] You want to try to limit that as much as you can.
[50:46] Yeah.
[50:47] Okay, so sunscreen and hydration.
[50:49] Sunscreen and hydration.
[50:50] So sunscreen has so many chemicals in it to obviously keep our skin protected.
[50:55] Because there's the physical one and then there's the chemical one.
[50:58] Yes.
[50:59] So is there a particular one that we should look for?
[51:02] Not 100% certain.
[51:03] I mean, my understanding is that the amount that you're actually going to absorb is exceptionally low and that any chemicals that would go to the baby, therefore, would be exceptionally low as well.
[51:13] Yeah.
[51:13] Everything that we get off the counter in a pharmacy, generally speaking, is going to be okay.
[51:18] The biggest misnomer though, one thing I will say is, you know, whenever we talk about natural products, it's really important to realize that natural doesn't necessarily mean safe.
[51:27] And that's true in everything when it comes to medicine.
[51:30] So...
[51:31] If you're having something natural, it might have plant-based ingredients that can react quite badly with respect to your skin.
[51:38] And so you don't actually know necessarily whether it's going to be good or bad, particularly in pregnancy.
[51:43] And I remember one woman was taking just some herbal medication in order to prevent her.
[51:48] And she was getting this from India, herbal medication just to prevent nausea.
[51:52] And in actual fact, she got lead poisoning.
[51:54] Because the herbs were being produced in a completely lead sodden soil.
[52:00] And so sometimes natural doesn't always mean safe.
[52:04] And I think that's really important because if you're pulling something off the shelf, you've got to say to yourself, okay, I'm looking at this.
[52:10] Is it natural?
[52:10] But is it safe?
[52:12] And does all these creams and stuff, if you can look on the back of it, does it say safe for pregnancy?
[52:16] A lot of them will say, consult your doctor.
[52:19] Okay.
[52:20] Yeah.
[52:20] Okay.
[52:21] Disclaimer.
[52:22] That's a massive disclaimer.
[52:23] Yeah.
[52:23] Because we live in a very litigious world.
[52:26] Dr. Jo, most people think of things like anti-wrinkle injections as purely being cosmetic, but they're actually used in medicine too.
[52:33] Can you explain how treatments like this are used medically in your practice?
[52:37] We know that anti-wrinkle cream, you know, injections rather can be used actually for migraines.
[52:41] A lot of people use them, see a neurologist for migraines.
[52:44] But then the other thing that we're using it for in terms of gynaecology is where women have an overactive pelvic floor, pelvic myalgia.
[52:52] And so you can imagine that if your vagina's got muscles, it's like a, I suppose, like almost like a skivion.
[52:58] If those muscles are really hyperactive.
[53:01] And sometimes doing anti-wrinkle cream to relax those muscles can improve the pelvic pain that some women may suffer when they have sexual intercourse.
[53:09] So we often use that.
[53:11] So it's a cream?
[53:11] No, it's an injection.
[53:14] We can also use tricyclic antidepressant type cream and also...
[53:18] The depressed vagina.
[53:20] The depressed vagina, yes.
[53:22] So it's an antidepressant cream for your vagina so it relaxes.
[53:26] We can relax, yes.
[53:27] So vulvodynia, so we can use that.
[53:29] We can also use ketamine as well as a ketamine cream so that gets specially compounded again for the same sort of thing.
[53:37] So if women are coming with a significant amount of pelvic pain, which may be endometriosis but may also be related to the muscles and the hyperactivity of the muscles, we can actually use anti-wrinkle cream.
[53:48] We can use the antidepressant cream.
[53:51] We use ketamine cream.
[53:52] That's no substitute for physiotherapy as well.
[53:54] So there's obviously other things we can do as well.
[53:56] But, you know, we are utilizing sort of cosmetic sort of things in order to help women as well.
[54:02] So it's cool because it is a stigma.
[54:04] So can I put that on my face asking for a friend?
[54:08] I use a great one.
[54:11] Ketamine cream on your face.
[54:12] I don't think what that will do.
[54:14] I'll put it on too and then get the glow sticks.
[54:16] I'll come over for a rave.
[54:19] I was like, your fanny's raving.
[54:20] Why are your face raves?
[54:25] Yeah.
[54:25] No, but so it's actually a cream that you can put, but then also you can do an injection up there.
[54:29] Yeah, so the injection's into the muscle, right?
[54:32] And much as what anti-wrinkle cream does to the face, it relaxes the muscles so that the muscles don't move.
[54:38] The same sort of thing.
[54:39] It relaxes the muscles within the vagina so the woman's not feeling, well, have less discomfort, obviously.
[54:45] Yeah.
[54:46] And one of the other things we're using now, which is very new in terms of gynecology, is hyaluronic acid for gynecology surgery.
[54:54] And so, you know, we know we use hyaluronic acid.
[54:56] For your hydration, for your skin.
[54:58] That's right, because it absorbs all this water.
[55:01] Well, in actual fact, sometimes when we're doing surgery, and I'll do surgery where I'm removing things like fibroids inside a uterus.
[55:08] And so I often describe fibroids like a big baseball pitch sitting on the surface of the MCG.
[55:14] If you imagine I've gone along with a big digger in bulldoze and I've picked up this massive baseball pitch, now I've left this massive hole there, right?
[55:21] The footballers aren't going to be able to play on the weekend.
[55:23] Yeah.
[55:24] So we need to allow an opportunity for that area to grow again, but we don't want it to scar up.
[55:29] Yeah.
[55:29] Right?
[55:30] So we can put hyaluronic acid inside the uterus that absorbs the moisture and that allows the grass then to grow without collapsing on itself.
[55:39] The two side walls of the uterus, you imagine it's like a balloon, folding on itself and causing an adhesion.
[55:45] Wow.
[55:45] Yeah.
[55:46] Amazing.
[55:46] And what is that hyaluronic?
[55:48] Does it come, do you just squirt it in?
[55:50] Yeah, we squirt it in.
[55:51] A lot of the nurses ask if I can save a bit for them.
[55:54] Yeah, yeah, yeah, literally.
[55:56] I take the ketamine cream.
[55:58] I take the hyaluronic squirter stuff.
[56:01] And the anti-wrinkles.
[56:02] Thank you, Dr. Jo.
[56:04] I love that.
[56:05] We are doing top to tail.
[56:07] Oh, well, thanks so much for coming on today.
[56:11] I think this one will be a really great resource.
[56:13] Yeah.
[56:14] For our listeners who are pregnant or send it to your friends and your family members.
[56:17] All your questions answered.
[56:19] I think we've covered it all.
[56:20] We have indeed.
[56:22] I know what to do next time I get pregnant.
[56:23] You're not getting pregnant again.
[56:24] My next life.
[56:25] In your next life.
[56:25] I'm not in this life because I don't want to lose my wing woman.
[56:27] No, no.
[56:27] It's all about me.
[56:30] I'll just sit there going, I think I might go for another baby.
[56:32] And then I'm like, I know Bec will kill me.
[56:34] I won't do it.
[56:36] I would.
[56:36] You look better.
[56:38] Then, Dr. Jo, I know we've got to let you go because you have two women labouring right now and you need to go catch some babies.
[56:43] We're going to catch babies.
[56:44] Thanks.
[56:44] No worries.
[56:45] Thank you.
[56:46] Bye.

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