# Why Is Everyone Talking About Peptides?

An episode of [Vain-ish](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1824105551), 23 Jun 2026, 56 min.

Audio: https://enrichment.soundstack.com/4vjqq8/episode.flightcast.com/rdlg7xnweixipol1pabccbg2.mp3

Injectable peptides are generating huge interest online and offline - but how much do we actually know about them? Sports Medicine Physician and former Chief Medical Officer of the Melbourne Storm, Dr Jason Chan, unpacks BPC-157, GHK-Cu and Epitalon. We discuss the role social media has played in driving interest, Australia's regulatory landscape, the risks of unregulated products, and what the research currently tells us. Interested in GLP-1 medications and peptides? Listen to our episode GLP-1s: The Hype, the Fear, and What the Science Actually Says with Dr Ryan De Cruz. This episode is intended for educational purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. It is not intended to promote or recommend any specific medicine, product, or treatment. If you have questions about your own health, please speak with a qualified healthcare professional. Find us on Instagram: @vainishpodcast, and thanks to our guest Dr Jason Chan Hosts: @becjudd and @jessierobertsx Producer: Liza Altarejos Audio Imager: Chris Marsh Video Producer: Justin Hill Find more great podcasts at www.listnr.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] a listener production.
[0:05] I'm Bec Judd.
[0:06] And I'm Jess Roberts.
[0:07] And we're done with the smoke and mirrors.
[0:09] Fainish shares honest stories about what it takes to look amazing because we did not wake up like this.
[0:15] And you should know the stuff that we chat about on this podcast is based on our personal experiences.
[0:21] We're sharing it for your entertainment.
[0:23] It's definitely not medical advice.
[0:26] And we'll always be clear with you when something is a paid endorsement.
[0:29] Please always chat with your qualified healthcare team before making any decisions about your health.
[0:49] Hey guys, welcome to Fainish.
[0:52] I'm Jess.
[0:53] I'm Beg Judd.
[0:54] And Roberts.
[0:56] Jess Roberts.
[0:57] And Rebecca Judd.
[0:59] We're still hungover.
[1:00] I know.
[1:01] I know.
[1:01] I'm day three of a hangover.
[1:03] Yeah.
[1:04] Oh man.
[1:04] I'm still drinking, so.
[1:06] You haven't stopped.
[1:07] I'm on a bender.
[1:07] I'm on a bender.
[1:08] Guys, we went to the Mick Fanning Charity Golf Day.
[1:11] It was actually our third.
[1:13] It was our second on the Gold Coast, but we've done the Melbourne event as well.
[1:19] And how would we describe the Mick Fanning Charity Golf Day?
[1:22] Honestly, it's one of my favorite days.
[1:24] It's like up there with Coachella.
[1:25] Do you know what?
[1:26] It's Coachella for golf.
[1:29] Yes, and charity, which is great.
[1:30] Yes.
[1:31] It's so amazing.
[1:32] They're raising money for the Northern River flood affected areas.
[1:35] It's been going for five years.
[1:38] Mick is such a legend and does such an amazing job.
[1:41] And how it works is...
[1:43] There's a celebrity plays in it with a team of four and the team of four, they like, they buy a team.
[1:50] All that money goes to charity.
[1:52] And then on each hole, so there's 18 holes on a golf course, but they play two lots of 18 holes.
[1:57] So it's 36 holes.
[1:59] Each hole is sponsored by a brand or a business.
[2:02] So when you get to that hole, there's some kind of fun activation happening.
[2:07] So like one year, it was like Betty's Burgers.
[2:09] Another year, it's like Fat Boy Bikes and you tee off and there's a DJ and a smoke machine.
[2:14] It's like a tequila hole.
[2:15] Yeah, tequila with a Red Bull hole.
[2:17] Like every hole, you cruise around on your buggy and you don't know what's coming next.
[2:22] We had a hole where there was a tomahawk that Jess had to eat.
[2:25] She turned into a doof stick and raved to a Dom Dolla song.
[2:30] Like there's.
[2:31] There's food, there's drink, there's entertainment, there's competitions, there's so much fun.
[2:35] Everyone does get a little bit loose.
[2:37] Not a little bit loose, we're all loose.
[2:38] Someone did roll a buggy.
[2:40] Yes, someone did.
[2:41] A girl fell off the buggy.
[2:42] Not us.
[2:43] Not us.
[2:44] Not us.
[2:44] But it was so much fun.
[2:46] So yeah, Jess and I headed up to...
[2:48] the Gold Coast.
[2:49] We stayed at this amazing penthouse that the owners had given, donated all of the accommodation to the celebrities who were playing, who donated their time to play and also donated massively on the day.
[3:04] They're so generous.
[3:05] So Jess and I had this huge house for like – How big was it?
[3:11] It was like – to say that it's huge, it was six bedrooms with all walk-in wardrobes, all walk-in bathrooms, like on suites.
[3:17] The Kira Rise penthouse.
[3:19] It's so good.
[3:20] It's got its own Instagram page.
[3:21] Check it out.
[3:22] Literally.
[3:22] And it's like there was like –
[3:24] I think it was like eight bathrooms in total, six bedrooms.
[3:26] There was five living areas.
[3:28] You got lost.
[3:29] I got lost.
[3:30] I walked into the wrong room at one night.
[3:32] Like it was just, it was so much fun.
[3:35] A rooftop pool overlooking Kira Beach.
[3:37] It was so good.
[3:38] Do you know what I'm really upset about though?
[3:39] What?
[3:40] Well, I didn't realize until after there was a tattoo hole.
[3:42] We missed that tattoo.
[3:43] I swear Mick made us miss that because he knew we'd be so unhinged and probably get a tattoo on our foreheads.
[3:49] But I was devastated.
[3:51] I had no idea.
[3:52] I was ready.
[3:53] And there was a snake.
[3:54] There was a snake hole.
[3:56] Like I was going to do a Britney Spears slave moment.
[3:58] Yes, I saw Russell Coit doing that.
[4:00] Yes, but Russell Coit.
[4:02] Russell Coit.
[4:03] He's our favourite.
[4:04] I know.
[4:05] Every time we see him, he's like, hey, girls, I haven't seen you since I saw you in the Brighton Woolies.
[4:09] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[4:10] He's so good.
[4:11] We love.
[4:12] We love.
[4:13] And Shannon Noe.
[4:14] Nosey.
[4:15] Nosey wraps up the night by singing What About Me.
[4:18] It's his tradition.
[4:19] It is the best.
[4:20] I asked him at 9.30 in the morning if he could sing it to me and he said no.
[4:22] I was a bit devastated.
[4:24] He's like too early, J.S.
[4:25] I'm like, oh.
[4:26] Anyway.
[4:27] He did it by the night.
[4:28] So next year we'll get tattoos.
[4:29] Yes.
[4:30] Yeah.
[4:30] I'm going to get J.R. loves RJ.
[4:33] Yeah, how cute.
[4:34] Are you going to do the same?
[4:36] I'll say RJ loves... JR. JR.
[4:38] I just had to work it out.
[4:40] Only worked out this weekend that we have the same initials.
[4:42] Oh, my God.
[4:43] We were meant to be.
[4:44] Meant to be best friends.
[4:45] EFFs.
[4:46] Forever.
[4:46] Yes.
[4:47] Forever.
[4:47] So anyway, guys, it really is the most fun charity golf day.
[4:51] Like we said, it is Coachella.
[4:54] Fun.
[4:54] For golf.
[4:55] And if you wanted to support the cause, jump on Mick Fanning Charity Golf Day dot com and have a look there.
[5:02] Best day ever.
[5:03] All for a good cause.
[5:03] I know.
[5:04] And I'm so excited for next year.
[5:05] Same.
[5:05] Lock it in.
[5:06] Lock it in.
[5:14] Before we get started, a quick reminder that this episode is for educational purposes only and isn't medical advice.
[5:20] We're discussing peptides as a topic of interest, and this conversation isn't intended to promote or recommend any specific medicine, product, or treatment.
[5:30] If you have questions about your own health, please speak with a qualified healthcare professional.
[5:37] Oh, this is a big one today.
[5:38] I know.
[5:39] It is the one that everyone's been asking about.
[5:42] Yes.
[5:43] And even in, you know, the 12-ish months since we've been doing Veinish, if you'd asked us 12 months ago what are the topics, this one wasn't one of them.
[5:53] And now this is the topic that everyone in 12 short months is asking the most about.
[5:59] And it's peptides.
[6:00] Peptides.
[6:01] Yeah, it's not the GLP-1 peptides because remember, we did cover GLP-1s with Dr. Ryan DeCruz.
[6:07] They're in our show notes.
[6:09] If you want to have a listen to those, please do.
[6:11] That was an awesome topic.
[6:12] We are talking about these other peptides, glow peptides, muscle regeneration peptides, longevity peptides.
[6:22] Every time I bloody open my Instagram, there's some Jim bro or some hot bird like flaunting these peptides and shoving them in their butt with a needle.
[6:32] And there's front page news of the age talking about peptide injuries.
[6:37] It is unregulated.
[6:39] There's so much to learn about it.
[6:41] It's an evolving space.
[6:43] And we want Veinish to be the one-stop place.
[6:46] shop for info on peptides.
[6:48] When you think about peptides, say to your friends, oh, Beck and Jess covered this on Vanish.
[6:52] Done GLP once and today we're going to cover all the other topical ones.
[6:56] So we thought we better get the best expert in to talk all things peptides.
[7:01] So welcome Dr. Jason Chan.
[7:04] Thank you very much.
[7:05] So Jason has extensive background in sports medicine, surgical assistance and healthcare consulting.
[7:12] Tell us your qualifications and what you're doing now.
[7:15] Yeah, so I run a performance medical program called PK27.
[7:20] My background is in general practice and sports medicine.
[7:23] I've been the chief medical officer at the Melbourne Storm for 10 years.
[7:27] No longer doing that role.
[7:28] And for a long period of time, I also was a bariatric doctor for about 12 years, looking after weight loss.
[7:36] And yeah, I find myself sitting in this room talking to you two lovely ladies.
[7:41] Today, we are here to talk about peptides.
[7:44] Now, peptides are everywhere right now.
[7:47] Everyone's talking about it.
[7:48] Every time you open your phone.
[7:50] Yep.
[7:50] We are getting ad targeted.
[7:52] All your friends.
[7:53] Yeah.
[7:54] All in the workplace, in the school mums, the school dads.
[7:58] It's all a thing.
[7:59] Even the kids.
[8:00] Yes.
[8:00] Even the kids are talking about it.
[8:02] Yeah, the teenagers.
[8:03] Especially the ones that are in sport.
[8:05] And online.
[8:06] Yep.
[8:06] The other term of peptides is called pepies.
[8:08] Yes.
[8:09] Peppy.
[8:09] Oh, is that what they're calling them?
[8:11] The pepies.
[8:11] I'm on the pepies.
[8:11] You're on the pepies?
[8:12] Yeah, that sounds like a big hit.
[8:14] And it is actually, like for how much we're having a giggle about it, it's actually pretty serious medicine.
[8:18] It's pretty serious stuff.
[8:19] Yeah.
[8:20] And the reason we're doing this episode today is we wanted to get Jason on to give us the medical knowledge behind it to talk about the safety and the risks.
[8:30] because there are a lot of people out there actually doing quite a bit of damage to themselves.
[8:35] There was a big article, I think it was front page of The Age, talking about some of the peptide disasters.
[8:40] Yeah.
[8:41] And yeah, we thought because everyone's talking about it, we want to give everyone the best medically informed education about where we're at now and what's going on in this peptide world.
[8:51] So peptides are everywhere.
[8:53] But for people listening, yeah, who have absolutely no idea what they are, what actually is a peptide?
[8:58] Mm-hmm.
[8:59] Yeah, so a peptide is a chain of amino acids, generally less than 30 amino acids, if you will, which are, for a large part, are signaling sort of circumstances.
[9:09] So you currently have circulating somewhere towards 200,000 peptides in you right now.
[9:14] which are always signaling your cells.
[9:16] Largely, these natural peptides have very, very, very short half-lives.
[9:21] So they have a half-life of 30 minutes, which for people who don't understand what the reference range for that means, it means that within your bloodstream, they're gone inside two, two and a half hours.
[9:30] Really?
[9:30] Eliminated from your body probably inside two days.
[9:33] So you make them, you use them, they're gone.
[9:36] Undetectable.
[9:36] You make them, you break them.
[9:38] Undetectable.
[9:38] And are they made by all different parts of your body?
[9:40] Yeah.
[9:40] All different parts of your body.
[9:41] Make different parts.
[9:42] All systems.
[9:42] That's how they communicate.
[9:43] Okay.
[9:43] And they're only used when they're needed, I guess.
[9:46] Correct.
[9:47] And then once they've been used, it's been fixed, it just kind of breaks down.
[9:49] Correct.
[9:50] It's like a cascade.
[9:50] You know, this peptide will trigger this cell to produce that peptide, which will produce that.
[9:54] So it's very sort of interrelated in that sense.
[9:55] They're a little messenger.
[9:56] Correct.
[9:57] So if you have a chain of amino acids that might be more than 30 amino acids, we call that a protein.
[10:02] Oh.
[10:03] So difference between a protein and a peptide is very, very, very small.
[10:07] Just that large proteins, if you will, get broken down into smaller amino acids.
[10:11] And so when you're taking these things, it's the combination which otherwise culminate in a particular action.
[10:16] Science.
[10:17] Science.
[10:18] I love it.
[10:19] I love it.
[10:20] So when someone comes into your clinic asking about peptides, what are they usually hoping to understand or learn more about?
[10:26] How do they find you?
[10:27] Bec, the most common way that people would come with regard to peptides is, well, first thing, we don't advertise about peptides.
[10:34] That's an illegal circumstance.
[10:37] So most of it is word of mouth.
[10:39] You know, for the better part, because most people have come to me
[10:43] in the beginning for sports effectively, they're looking for it from a sporting perspective, be that I've got an injury that needs to be fixed, I have a chronic pain condition, I don't want my joint replacement yet.
[10:53] But increasingly that population is changing to the point of I want to feel better, I want a little bit more energy.
[10:59] I want to look better.
[11:01] I want to look better.
[11:02] That might be certain persons as well.
[11:04] Or more particularly, is there something I can do so I don't continue to break down when people get fixed each time?
[11:10] So increasingly it's seen as an opportunity or a way in which you may be able to manipulate body function to otherwise achieve what you're trying to achieve.
[11:19] Yeah.
[11:19] And who can prescribe peptides?
[11:21] So there's two large markets that we otherwise have.
[11:24] The first thing to say is that the peptides that we largely talk about are the peptides that they don't have a TGA approval.
[11:30] So these are what we call Schedule 4 medications, which are listed within the Schedule 4 poison section.
[11:36] Okay.
[11:36] So that largely means basically that, yep, we appreciate that they exist, but we're concerned that they have detrimental effects to the human person.
[11:45] So they can only be prescribed by a medical practitioner, a licensed medical practitioner that's through APRA, at which point in time, those practitioners who otherwise do provide that, those scripts can only be fulfilled from TGA-approved compounding pharmacies.
[11:59] And that offers that level of legitimacy.
[12:01] Okay, and how many TGA compounding pharmacies are there in Australia?
[12:04] Listen, it's changing.
[12:05] However, there's only around about five or six.
[12:07] Okay.
[12:08] In the whole of Australia?
[12:08] In the whole of Australia.
[12:10] There are none in Victoria.
[12:11] Okay.
[12:11] There's only five at this point that are legally allowed to compound.
[12:16] How come we are seeing out in the community and in the press that there seems to be a lot more people on them and they aren't getting them from these places?
[12:24] Where are they getting them from and what are the risks of not getting them from an approved licensed compounding pharmacy?
[12:32] You've opened a can of worms there.
[12:33] Yeah.
[12:34] It seems that you can get the peptides from anywhere.
[12:36] Yeah, in Timu.
[12:37] You can order them.
[12:38] Timu is one place you can get them from.
[12:39] From Biky's Backyard.
[12:41] Biky's Backyard.
[12:41] And I guess you've even brought up another interesting topic when you talk about that.
[12:45] Peptides are largely in this country unregulated.
[12:48] What's interesting is the fact that, and there is a particular peptide which is quite common, which if you take it in the injectable form, which people would otherwise acquire, we call it a peptide.
[12:57] If you put it in a capsule, we'll call it a supplement.
[13:01] So it's a really confusing sort of space.
[13:04] And I think largely everyone's sort of going, don't want to know about it, don't want to know about it, don't want to know about it.
[13:08] Very soon something will have to change.
[13:10] Yes.
[13:11] It's happening too much.
[13:12] It's unregulated in terms of what happens.
[13:14] And there's side effects that are happening.
[13:16] And there are potential side effects.
[13:17] And I think those persons who are selling it online...
[13:20] claiming, it's funny, I get people who say, listen, I can get you this and I've got a mate who gets the good stuff.
[13:25] I've never met one person who says, I've got a mate who gets the bad stuff.
[13:30] We know through our studies in terms of what we do looking at these offline sort of peptides that there is major concerns in terms of contamination.
[13:38] in terms of purity, whether they've got endotoxins inside, all of these circumstances or other substances that you really aren't very aware of.
[13:46] There were a couple of cases in the States where one of the peptides was being laced with cocaine, clambutirol, because it meant then that you would use their peptides because you know what?
[13:56] You felt wonderful.
[13:57] You felt wonderful on it.
[13:58] Wow.
[13:59] So if we all believe that that may not be happening in this country, good luck.
[14:02] What are you hearing here in Australia about where, because to me it seems that there's such an influx and so many people taking them and they're not seeing a medical doctor, they're not getting the baseline testing, they're not getting their biomarkers in order.
[14:18] What is going on?
[14:19] Bec, I think the biggest part is that, and there's two questions there.
[14:22] There's one is why are people taking them?
[14:24] And then two, what do you do while you're taking them?
[14:27] And I think if I answer the second part first, that is if you're taking something which we all know largely is experimental, we may have scientific knowledge as to what it's doing.
[14:37] We may have animal studies that suggest what it does to animals and it's a far stretch always to extrapolate that to humans.
[14:45] We have a lot of anecdotal evidence and that is you'll find that on Instagram and every other social media outlet or friends and family that you otherwise know or people in the gym that you go to.
[14:54] But in terms of what it's doing to you, if we can't tell you what it could do to you, you're taking these largely on a whim.
[15:01] Yeah.
[15:02] Now, that in itself is quite scary.
[15:05] You know, if it can do all the things that we potentially hope it might do...
[15:09] Well, there may be elements that it may be doing that it doesn't want to do.
[15:14] So two parts of that is, one, if you do decide to take them, why?
[15:19] And the other part of that is, what's the consequence of what you're doing?
[15:22] Now, if you're buying them then online, as most people would probably do, or from a gym with a guy walking around with a fanny bag, effectively, pulling them out, essentially.
[15:30] They tell you not for medical consumption.
[15:33] Yeah.
[15:33] They tell you not for veterinary consumption.
[15:36] And on one side I saw not for household consumption, and I'm really not sure what that otherwise meant.
[15:41] Yeah, yeah.
[15:42] Or there's nothing on there at all.
[15:44] Or they produce.
[15:45] Or there's writing in different languages that you can understand.
[15:47] Different languages.
[15:48] And then they're giving dosings.
[15:49] If they're not saying it's in for any of those things, why would you put dosing on their website?
[15:54] Yeah.
[15:54] So we do know what they're actually doing.
[15:56] I mean, we're not naive in that sort of circumstance, but they then get you to tick that disclaimer, which is always that box which no one ever reads.
[16:02] So is it illegal?
[16:03] It's not illegal.
[16:04] It's like marijuana.
[16:06] It's not illegal to actually...
[16:07] If you do a plant or two, it's okay.
[16:09] Yeah?
[16:10] And if you use, then that's a problem.
[16:12] You know, or you traffic to somebody else.
[16:14] It's like, we'll give you a little bit of a safeguard, but not.
[16:16] So right now you sell it under the guise of research.
[16:19] And the guise of research is the fact that you say and you declare you're a medical person who can use it for research.
[16:25] So you're almost purging yourself by purchasing them.
[16:29] Now, no one's going to enforce it.
[16:30] It's a soft law, effectively.
[16:31] No different than if you, you know, like I said, if you lose the example of marijuana, if you want to use your own personal sort of little one, the police aren't going to come and bang on your door and knock it down.
[16:39] No, yeah.
[16:40] So it's one of those things that right now we just look away, don't want to know, don't want to know.
[16:44] But very soon, as I said, they will need to sort of do that circumstance.
[16:46] Yeah, because there's things that are going wrong.
[16:49] There are things that are going wrong.
[16:50] And listen, I'm not for a moment suggesting that what people are selling is not the right stuff, but it's not going through the right checks.
[16:58] Yeah.
[16:58] So what are those checks?
[17:00] So if you go through a TGA-approved sort of pharmacy, what they'll do is when the product otherwise then comes into their possession –
[17:07] And again, I don't know where they necessarily get it from.
[17:09] But what I do know then is the fact that they will test that product as it comes in.
[17:14] They will then compound that substance, be that they will, you know, add their bacteriocytal water.
[17:20] They'll mix the two compounds together, whether they produce a stacked peptide series or whichever.
[17:25] But then they'll retest again.
[17:28] So not only do you test the product, and it's a bit like with sport, elite sport, how we have to check for performance-enhancing substances.
[17:33] It's not enough to test it before it comes in.
[17:36] You've got to test each batch.
[17:37] And they will test each batch.
[17:39] So they will tell you that the endotoxin level is a level which is safe.
[17:43] You have 99.9% sterility.
[17:46] It will also then tell you you have 99.9% purity, at which point it then becomes good enough to otherwise declare it as medical-grade.
[17:57] Okay.
[17:57] Beyond that, if someone says, but mine's 19, I've got it tested by someone, no one regulates that tester.
[18:05] It could be anyone.
[18:06] If it's 99%, that's fine, but what's the other 1%?
[18:10] What is it now?
[18:10] What's the 1.2%?
[18:13] That's the concerning part.
[18:14] That's the concerning part.
[18:15] Look, there are so many different peptides being discussed online right now.
[18:18] The algorithm targets me.
[18:20] I go on and I actually see people injecting themselves, talking about their different stacks, advertising to people what their dosage should be.
[18:29] It is crazy, especially in the hands of young people, to think,
[18:34] that this is like completely normal advice.
[18:38] Why do you think these particular peptides have captured so much attention?
[18:42] And what we're talking about today specifically is BPC-157, GHK-CU, which is copper peptide, and epitalon.
[18:50] I think it's part of the big picture of where people have and they can feel and they can see a declining performance.
[18:57] Yeah.
[18:57] So that is that they're sort of at that point where they go to their doctor because they're not feeling quite right.
[19:03] They get their standard blood test.
[19:05] They get their standard blood pressure taken.
[19:07] I can't see anything wrong.
[19:09] Go away, just eat better and drink some water and exercise.
[19:12] Yeah.
[19:13] I think people aren't getting the answers that they're searching for.
[19:16] I think it's almost like medicine expects the fact that everyone's perfect until you fall off a cliff.
[19:22] And so as we begin to decline, all we want to do is we want to be ourselves for longer.
[19:26] It's all we want to be.
[19:28] We want to be our best person for longer.
[19:30] And then when they see this opportunity and they hear this dream that they're otherwise being told, I want to try it too.
[19:38] And I think that's largely probably what drives it.
[19:40] I don't know anything about peptides at all.
[19:43] I'm actually not targeted.
[19:46] You will be after your phone's listening to you now.
[19:48] My algorithm's weird.
[19:50] But no, but what is BPC-157?
[19:54] BPC-157.
[19:56] So BPC is a peptide, which stands for body protecting compound 157.
[20:00] It was just number 157 in the chain of experimentation it otherwise came down to.
[20:06] Largely, we see it in the human body in our gastric juices, where that's where we see most of our BPC essentially.
[20:12] So as a peptide, when it was otherwise then utilised through experimentation on animals and whichever, it was found effectively that for the purpose of
[20:21] certain recovery, repair sort of circumstances, it seemed to improve while using it essentially.
[20:28] We see a lot of manifestations where we get a lot of improvement, be that in people's clarity, be that in their sleep, be that in their gut sort of formation and whichever, but it's probably largely because they're broken and they're trying to fix that sort of thing.
[20:42] So it's still a recovery repair sort of peptide.
[20:44] Right, and we do have that naturally in our body anyway.
[20:46] We do naturally.
[20:48] So I guess maybe the story sometimes goes a bit larger in terms of, because people sometimes consider that TRT, be that testosterone replacement therapies or, you know, growth hormone therapies or HCG therapies are the same as peptide therapies.
[21:01] They're very, very, very different.
[21:03] Yeah.
[21:03] peptides because largely they're signaling peptides.
[21:06] So those are the most common peptides.
[21:09] All they do is basically say to yourself, please do more, please now.
[21:14] And then we have a bit of a break.
[21:16] Do it again, please now.
[21:19] And I sort of say it that way because it's just a gentle wave.
[21:22] It's like a little wave on a beach.
[21:23] It just keeps coming, keeps coming.
[21:25] It's not like you take an injection and then boom, all of a sudden that day you have a... You won't feel it in a day or two.
[21:29] Okay.
[21:30] Because I think if you're really aiming to get that response...
[21:33] straight away you're looking down the wrong path.
[21:36] Right.
[21:37] Or you're having doses which are totally inappropriate.
[21:40] So compared to like a TRT that gives you a hormone, for example, whereas a peptide… Hey, what's a TRT?
[21:49] Testosterone replacement.
[21:51] Okay, yeah.
[21:52] Whereas a peptide would signal to make your own testosterone.
[21:55] Correct.
[21:55] Is that right?
[21:56] Okay.
[21:57] That's why you'll often see that…
[21:59] with the greatest respect to people who go to a gym, some of the gym junkies who have been on testosterone for an extended period of time, they can't come off it.
[22:06] Yeah.
[22:06] Because what happens is with all actions that the cell otherwise produces, the action itself that it produces becomes a negative impact on the cell.
[22:15] So you, almost like a safety mechanism.
[22:18] So that by producing testosterone, the body senses there's a lot of testosterone.
[22:22] So that testosterone negatively feedbacks on the cells that produce testosterone to slow down.
[22:27] You can't switch them back on?
[22:29] No.
[22:29] Well, imagine you're like, we have a factory in Australia that produces dolls, wonderful quality dolls.
[22:35] All of a sudden, I found a cheaper version in China that I can get for a quarter of the price.
[22:39] So all of a sudden, I start buying my dolls from China, influxing the country with these Chinese dolls.
[22:44] The factory in Australia says...
[22:46] I'm going to shut down.
[22:47] Yeah.
[22:48] We have all the problems we otherwise have right now in Iran and all of a sudden all the shipping shops down.
[22:52] Well, I'm going to go back to Australia now and I want to get my dolls.
[22:54] It's like, guys, I just shut the factory.
[22:56] I still don't know.
[22:57] I won't need it anymore.
[22:58] I wasn't needed anymore.
[22:59] So it takes a while to start the factory again.
[23:01] Yeah, because that was like always that sort of concern as well, like with the peptides and stuff.
[23:06] Like if you're taking them all the time, when you stop, does your body actually forget how to make it naturally?
[23:13] Yeah.
[23:14] I think this is where having medical supervision is helpful because the way in which and the regime in which we use them is to otherwise, you know, one of the regimes that I otherwise will use is to have them for five days, two days off, five days on, two days off.
[23:28] Everybody knows how.
[23:28] And then you'll have them month on, month off, month on, month off.
[23:33] The body's amazing at adapting.
[23:35] Mm-hmm.
[23:35] There's no, you can argue whether it might be addiction.
[23:38] Addiction would mean I need it now.
[23:40] And often one of the questions that people will ask is, will I, if I take them, will I need to be on them all the time?
[23:46] Generally, my advice to someone is to say, you know what, let's do them.
[23:50] Almost put aside your prejudice, put aside some of your questions, do them for a period of time, look back.
[23:56] And then you can answer that question with knowledge, personal knowledge.
[24:00] You know what?
[24:01] Looking at the risks that I see and the benefits, I don't believe it's good enough.
[24:06] Looking at it, it's like, wow, the benefits that I see and what I do understand in terms of the risks...
[24:12] as long as I can try and mitigate those risks where possible, and I'm not saying anything about what they might do, you can then monitor that circumstance while you take them.
[24:20] And I guess that's largely, again, that problem where people are taking them on the whim or with the knowledge of someone who actually doesn't ever test these things or knows what the effects might be, because I'm not saying I know what they are either.
[24:31] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[24:32] I don't know.
[24:33] Yeah.
[24:33] That's why I offer the opportunity to do it while covered with a level of medical governance.
[24:39] Mm-hmm.
[24:40] And I say it's a level of medical governance because I don't even necessarily know what testing I have to do for any particular peptide.
[24:46] Yeah, because this is all so new.
[24:48] Because it's so new and it's evolving.
[24:49] So what are the risks with BPC-157?
[24:52] We don't know any.
[24:53] We don't know.
[24:54] Because what is it, 50 years of study?
[24:57] We just don't know any that otherwise exist.
[24:59] Have there been human trials for BPC-157?
[25:02] Not enough, not powerful enough.
[25:03] Animal trials.
[25:04] Animal trials is no evidence of any problem.
[25:07] Not that we see.
[25:07] That was an animal.
[25:08] But the concern is always going to be, you know, will it trigger off a metastasis that might be there, a cancer that might otherwise be present?
[25:14] We don't know.
[25:15] Because one of the functions of BPC that we know from scientific studies, this is not questionable, is that it will increase blood flow to an area by causing this thing called angiogenesis, where it produces new blood vessels.
[25:26] Right.
[25:26] In tumour, that's what we worry about, the ability to feed this thing when it continues on.
[25:31] People are just taking it because they're just buying it from a crazy website.
[25:34] And I'm like, have you guys had testing done before you've gone and done this?
[25:38] Because, you know, my understanding is that if you have got cancer and you don't know about it and you just start taking a peptide, it can grow it.
[25:48] So is it really important to do a whole bunch of testing prior before
[25:53] having a peptide?
[25:55] Jess, that is a great concern in terms of if you do have a quiescent sort of tumour that we otherwise don't know about, that is always going to be the concern.
[26:03] In the testing that we would probably suggest slash demand from someone before otherwise prescribing the peptides, they're probably not going to find tumour in terms of what we do.
[26:13] And what we're looking more for is metabolic function and organ disease.
[26:17] what your basic liver function is, your renal function, your kidney function as opposed to renal function too.
[26:23] And so we're looking at simple markers, so both from a performance perspective.
[26:27] So we might do things like your serum cortisol, your IGF-1s, fasting insulin levels, all as a means to see whether...
[26:35] The claim is the fact that they may help with inflammatory change.
[26:38] So why don't we see whether there are some inflammatory markers which may be positioned that way.
[26:43] But we want to make sure that the really important organs, where they're purported to perhaps cause potential problem, are absolutely looked at so that, one, you don't have the disease before you enter into it.
[26:53] Yeah.
[26:54] Not just that what's it going to do as a result of taking the peptide.
[26:58] So often this, like I say, when people come for that purpose of asking, okay, I'd like to take this particular peptide, it starts a broader discussion about why.
[27:08] Okay, now let's have a look.
[27:09] So we never lose sight of the individual.
[27:12] We never lose sight of the fact that it's a medical issue or we're trying to medicalize this sort of circumstance and offer you a level of safety.
[27:20] And I think when you otherwise go from the other side sometimes, I think you don't want people to be in a circumstance whereby they have peptides and then will justify by tacking on medicine.
[27:31] It needs to come from that medical lead.
[27:33] Why are you wanting it in the first place?
[27:35] That's the first question that should happen.
[27:38] If it's from a vanity perspective, okay, put your hand up.
[27:40] Yeah.
[27:40] That's okay.
[27:41] So what we're doing then is we're screening you to make sure you're going to be safe while doing so.
[27:46] I want to do it because I'm feeling tired.
[27:48] Well, maybe we'll check your heart and lungs to make sure you don't have anything bad happening.
[27:51] Yeah.
[27:51] And maybe you actually don't need it.
[27:53] You just need to fix this part up.
[27:54] Yeah.
[27:54] Maybe you've got really low iron or those other things.
[27:57] Just get an iron infusion and B12 ejection.
[27:59] It's not the peptide you need.
[28:00] You don't need the peptide.
[28:02] Yeah.
[28:02] Right.
[28:03] Okay.
[28:04] Yeah.
[28:04] Yeah.
[28:05] So that's the difference between, I think, being internet-led and being medically-led.
[28:09] Yeah.
[28:10] And that's the thing that's scary in the world of AI, the chat GPTs and that they put all this info in, all these prompts, and we know how clever AI is, but people think now that they can bypass a medical doctor and prescribe themselves based on the huge amount of information they're getting on chat GPT.
[28:32] It's actually a bit scary.
[28:34] It is scary.
[28:35] And I think also like this whole trend of peptides and stuff,
[28:38] Is it illegal for the copper peptide, which is the GHKCU?
[28:46] If you hear us saying GHKCU, that's copper.
[28:49] It's a copper peptide.
[28:49] CU is copper.
[28:50] Okay.
[28:51] What's the GHK?
[28:52] So GHKCU, so the GHK part, if you will, stands for three particular amino acids, and that is glycol, histidyl and lysine, and the CU part is copper.
[29:02] That is the one I actually am seeing a lot of.
[29:05] Is that illegal or it's legal here?
[29:07] It's legal.
[29:08] It's legal here.
[29:09] But like in America and stuff like that, they can talk about it.
[29:13] There's no like obviously FDA.
[29:15] They don't have those TGA stuff.
[29:16] Robert R.F.K.
[29:17] Jr. is...
[29:18] wanting to make them on the, what is it, FDA approval.
[29:23] How's he going with that?
[29:24] He just went through last month, I think it was maybe two months ago.
[29:26] He passed 25 of them and he's now passing more if he can.
[29:29] Interestingly, in the States two years ago, I think it was 2024, in August of 24, they banned BPC-157 and now they just put it back on.
[29:36] Put it back on.
[29:37] But largely it was not driven by the fact that it actually caused a problem.
[29:41] It was largely because of the way in which it was acquired.
[29:45] because of these concerns of, you know, what it was laced with, where it was from and the underworld business that it sort of worked out.
[29:50] So rather than change the process of how you acquire it, they just said, listen, just cut.
[29:55] Right.
[29:56] Now you can argue that there was a bit of pressure from Big Pharma saying, hey, you're paying our lunch here and we don't want to.
[30:01] So a Big Pharma now with FDA approval in America of all these peptides, are there now, like Big Pharma will produce these peptides?
[30:08] The difficult part, Bec, is the fact that you can't patent things which are within the human body exclusively.
[30:13] Oh.
[30:14] So where BPC-157 is found within the human body, you can't patent it because you've got it.
[30:20] I have it.
[30:21] Jess has it.
[30:21] But there'd still be a market for producing it though.
[30:23] So what they look at doing is they look at changing it.
[30:25] So the GLP-1 market, which you've talked about already essentially, those GLP-1 markets or drugs, if you will, have been changed so that their half-life now is six days.
[30:35] So we've manipulated those circumstances.
[30:38] And by manipulating those circumstances, we are no longer what was otherwise then present within the human body, at which point we can patent it for a period of time until it becomes generic and then everyone can use it.
[30:49] So that's a, if you're a bit more skeptical and unfortunately as you get older, you feel a little bit more skeptical about those things.
[30:55] What's interesting, you know, most of our medical education post-graduation is funded by big pharma.
[31:01] Yeah, yes.
[31:02] Now, why would that be?
[31:04] Yeah, exactly.
[31:05] So back on their copper peptides, GHKCU, they are having such a big moment in skincare and hair conversations.
[31:13] Everyone's calling it the vanity peptide, the glow peptide.
[31:18] We're seeing so much of it.
[31:19] What do you think is driving that at the moment?
[31:21] Is it just social media?
[31:22] I think it's largely been driven by social media, Lisa.
[31:25] We actually use it from the point of view that it helps with collagen, absolutely.
[31:29] You know, it'll enter the dermis and then it'll increase fibroglastic activity.
[31:33] But we largely will use it for tendons and ligaments at the same time.
[31:35] What does the science say that it does for ligaments?
[31:38] It will reinforce the ligaments and make them stronger.
[31:41] Okay.
[31:42] It's the simplistic way because it increases fibroblastic activity, attracts fibroblasts and they will be reducing our connective tissues.
[31:49] So is that similar to the BPC-157?
[31:53] No.
[31:53] No.
[31:55] They work together.
[31:56] And then when they're combined with that TB4, the thymocin beta-4 or TB500, to some people, different molecule or different parts of the same molecule, but that's called the glow peptide effectively.
[32:08] So people will take the repair recovery part of BPC-TB4 and then they'll take the glow peptide part, which is effectively entering into the dermis to increase this fibroblastic activity to lay down more collagen so that you don't get the eruption that sometimes will happen when they first take that copper.
[32:25] You'll see people say when they take that copper to begin, for the first couple of weeks they can get a bit of a breakout.
[32:30] Yes, I have, yes.
[32:32] And that's where in taking the repair peptide, it takes that away quicker.
[32:37] So they'll take them in combination effectively.
[32:39] So if you take them in combination, you won't get the breakout?
[32:43] No, you will get the breakout, but the recovery process to that is a little bit easier.
[32:47] And you're also then, while trying to organise this, or you're laying down fibroblastic tissue, what you're trying to then do is you're needing to model it so you're trying to achieve what you're trying to achieve.
[32:57] And again, this is all...
[32:59] We think.
[33:00] We think, yeah.
[33:00] We don't know.
[33:01] We think.
[33:01] We don't have that sort of data to otherwise say.
[33:04] Are there – I'm thinking like right now, and especially if they've been approved in America, there'd be a lot of research going into this stuff right now.
[33:10] There is research absolutely going inside.
[33:11] And there's multiple sort of, you know, sort of testing sort of the way it's going.
[33:16] It's got to be big enough to otherwise – you need huge studies over extended periods of time to really prove anything.
[33:24] Like to get any drug to market will cost a billion dollars potentially.
[33:28] Yeah.
[33:28] And how many years?
[33:30] Oh, eight years plus.
[33:31] I'm sorry, unless it's COVID.
[33:33] That took eight weeks.
[33:35] What a joke.
[33:38] Well, you know what?
[33:39] We have become part of the experiment.
[33:40] And what we're seeing with that part of the experiment is... We might be all dead in 50 years.
[33:44] When all of these side effects happened, the medical committee was in denial, denial, denial.
[33:48] It's like, no, they can happen.
[33:50] Yeah.
[33:51] So, and we're now working out what they could have done.
[33:53] Okay.
[33:54] So if we sold you that vaccine to begin and said, hey, these are the chances of this happening and this can happen, we all feel informed.
[34:00] And if it happens, we feel okay.
[34:03] Right.
[34:04] as a mentality if we otherwise then because we all want to feel like an individual it's funny, we talk about testing and the like and it's like a herd mentality if your result is between X and Y, you're normal that's the herd I don't know if you read a book to your children it's called Ferdinand the Bull
[34:23] I want to be Ferdinand the Bull.
[34:24] Yeah.
[34:24] I want to be the person who is me.
[34:27] I want to be you testing me, essentially.
[34:30] And so I think within all of those circumstances, me as the individual gets a choice.
[34:34] Yeah.
[34:35] I will take that vaccine.
[34:36] I will have that medication.
[34:37] I'll take your advice, doctor.
[34:38] I'll take your advice, accountant.
[34:40] I'll take your advice, lawyer.
[34:41] you still get a choice is what you otherwise do.
[34:45] And I think people just want to be respected in that space.
[34:48] And so that while peptides in a sense are a bit, ooh, a bit taboo, a bit I want to take, people are wanting choice and they're saying, listen, you're not helping me.
[34:56] I want the choice to do so.
[34:58] They just don't know how largely peptides.
[35:01] there certainly will be an economic element because there's no doubt that getting them from an approved place is a little bit more expensive.
[35:08] But you'd be surprised that it's not that much more expensive than you think.
[35:11] But it's a matter of what safety means to you.
[35:13] Yeah.
[35:14] Do you cross the road at the crossing, 20 metres away from it or 100 metres away from it?
[35:18] Yeah.
[35:19] Yeah.
[35:28] On the copper peptide, what are the risks and side effects of this peptide that no one is talking about?
[35:33] I think always you're always going to have, firstly, the first thing, like in all medications for us, is anaphylaxis.
[35:38] You take your first dose well away from anyone without any knowledge, whether you're taking that particular dose, which you don't know is inside there, you'll have an allergic reaction, drop dead.
[35:50] Whoa.
[35:50] Now, I have really dramatised that.
[35:52] I appreciate that.
[35:53] But anaphylaxis is certainly one of those circumstances, an acute allergic reaction to it in some sort of way.
[35:59] Well, you presume it's copper.
[36:00] Yeah, because if you're not getting it from... That's my point.
[36:03] Have you seen this?
[36:04] Have you heard about any case studies like this?
[36:07] You can read case studies.
[36:08] There are lots of little case studies anecdotally, be that you read on the front page of The Age, someone losing their limb effectively from probably was sepsis that developed secondary to an infection essentially.
[36:18] But yeah, you can read anecdotally.
[36:20] Okay.
[36:21] Largely sometimes in medicine you have this thing that we call decision-based evidence finding.
[36:26] So I decide that peptides are great, so everywhere I look will be on sites where they say peptides are great.
[36:31] Yeah.
[36:31] So I'll find, you know, evidence to say that the peptides don't work.
[36:34] So you can largely manipulate what you otherwise want to know.
[36:37] So have we found those things?
[36:38] Absolutely.
[36:39] Do you read anecdotal case studies?
[36:41] Absolutely.
[36:42] Yeah.
[36:42] Okay.
[36:43] That's what it comes down to.
[36:44] What about, like, can you OD on copper?
[36:47] Yes.
[36:47] Yes.
[36:48] Yeah.
[36:48] And what happens when you have too much copper in your system?
[36:51] You get blue eyes.
[36:52] What?
[36:52] Now, that doesn't mean no, no, no, no.
[36:54] As in the whites of your eyes go blue.
[36:56] You get rings.
[36:56] Okay.
[36:57] You get these special rings.
[36:58] In the whites, in the white part.
[37:00] In the white part, effectively.
[37:02] Because if you've seen the GHK copper, it's blue.
[37:04] It's blue.
[37:05] If you've seen it in the mountains of Brazil, you'll see blue mountains.
[37:08] Mm.
[37:08] Yeah, right.
[37:11] So again, if you're going to take it, it would lend itself to medical testing beforehand and monitoring of copper so you don't poison yourself with copper rather than buying it from someone's backyard or from an international website.
[37:26] Correct.
[37:26] And you don't know whether you've got a 5 milligram vial, 10 or a 50 because you hope that they gave you the correct one.
[37:32] Oh, my gosh.
[37:32] Especially when they go unlabeled or they're written in Taiwanese.
[37:35] Oh, God.
[37:35] There's some people injecting themselves.
[37:37] And then just on that point.
[37:38] Who would do that?
[37:40] On that point.
[37:42] Injecting yourself.
[37:43] Yes.
[37:43] So people take these peptides by themselves.
[37:46] Yes.
[37:47] In their homes.
[37:47] Yes.
[37:48] They are not doctors.
[37:49] They are not nurses.
[37:50] Well, not usually.
[37:51] And they're not like trained in this.
[37:53] Not shown.
[37:54] We saw this happen in this article, front page of The Age, where someone got an infection and he lost their leg.
[38:01] This is also risky as well.
[38:03] Totally.
[38:03] Totally.
[38:04] Yeah.
[38:05] The process of injections is a risky situation.
[38:08] Yeah.
[38:08] 100%.
[38:09] I mean, you're injecting it subcutaneously, essentially.
[38:11] You're not going into... What does that mean?
[38:13] So that means you're just injecting under the skin and into the fat level.
[38:16] It's not going into like your veins.
[38:17] You're not going to a vein or an artery.
[38:18] Yeah.
[38:18] There's a bit of a misnomer that, you know, people talk about injecting it around the site where you're injured.
[38:22] Yeah.
[38:23] Unless you're formally injecting it into an area, and again, that's subjective in terms of whether it helps, largely what will happen is the body will absorb it through the veins and the lymphatics, goes back to the heart before it then enters the arterial system, and then it takes it to the tissue.
[38:38] So you don't need to be injecting it around a joint.
[38:40] And the concern with injecting it around a joint is very much that what happens if you actually got it in the joint?
[38:46] Then you've got a sterile area putting something which you're not 100% sure about going into an area where nothing should go.
[38:53] One thing people seem really curious about is long-term use.
[38:57] How much do we actually know right now?
[38:58] I don't know.
[38:59] I know you're going to say, we don't know.
[39:00] We don't know.
[39:00] About long-term research around these peptides.
[39:04] So like with copper, we're talking about copper poisoning.
[39:06] At what point is too much?
[39:08] And are there receptors that all of a sudden go, I've been overloaded with copper.
[39:11] I'm not even going to work anymore.
[39:13] Yeah.
[39:13] That's a really good question.
[39:14] We don't know, like you said.
[39:15] We don't know is the answer.
[39:16] I guess what we do know is the fact that we can measure copper levels.
[39:21] And we do know the fact that when you're told at a particular dose, you're going to be taking very, very small doses.
[39:25] Okay, so that's why it's super important to be monitored, tested beforehand.
[39:30] And to do other things.
[39:31] Yeah.
[39:31] Hydrate.
[39:32] Hydrate, yeah.
[39:32] All of those things effectively.
[39:33] Sleep well.
[39:34] You know, don't stress.
[39:35] Yeah.
[39:36] They'll improve things.
[39:37] I think there's this perception that peptides will do everything for you.
[39:40] Mm-hmm.
[39:41] Peptides are there to help you achieve what you want to achieve.
[39:45] So I think if you're looking at taking peptides, let's suggest you're doing peptides to try and improve a bit of strength.
[39:51] Well, you're not going to get it by sitting on your bum.
[39:53] You need to be going to the gym and maybe it might help enhance your response to the gym.
[39:57] It might decrease your DOMS, your delayed onset muscle soreness that you get afterwards, which will allow you to go again and go again.
[40:05] An AFL football club may have been caught out in that circumstance in 2012.
[40:10] But nonetheless, that's what it will give you as the individual potentially.
[40:14] And so I think it's important to know why are we trying to achieve this?
[40:19] What is it you're looking for?
[40:20] Let's look at the whole picture of you and then supplements are part of that as well as peptides potentially are part of that too.
[40:27] Okay, where do you see peptides going in the future here in Australia?
[40:30] Like, do you think they will become prescribed, prescribable, various...
[40:35] So you can prescribe them?
[40:37] I can prescribe them.
[40:38] Why can you prescribe them?
[40:39] Because I'm a medical practitioner.
[40:41] Yep, so can any medical practitioner prescribe them?
[40:43] Yes, your GP can do it.
[40:44] Yep, based on what parameters, like what presentation...
[40:47] Anything they want because there's no indication for these things.
[40:50] You're taking it.
[40:51] Everything's off label.
[40:51] So it's up to you as a medical professional?
[40:53] As the individual to what you feel is an appropriate circumstance.
[40:56] Do we have to sign a disclaimer?
[40:59] Yeah, yeah.
[41:00] I do.
[41:00] I do.
[41:01] I do.
[41:01] They're not...
[41:02] They're research.
[41:03] They're not correct.
[41:04] And I make sure that it's...
[41:05] I make that very apparent when people come to say, hey, listen, there is an unknown unknown here.
[41:10] Yeah.
[41:10] If you say, could it cause cancer?
[41:12] I'm not going to say, no, it can't.
[41:14] It may well do that.
[41:14] It may well, yeah.
[41:15] Okay.
[41:15] And I just want people to acknowledge the fact that they've heard that and that they agree to that situation.
[41:19] Because...
[41:20] This is a shared experience.
[41:22] For much of what I do as a doctor, I'll always be backed by medical experience.
[41:26] And I can then say, well, if it goes wrong and you get that, well, I knew that, we knew that, you knew that.
[41:33] This is one of those circumstances where it's a shared experience and you become your own N equals one, which is you becoming part of the experiment.
[41:41] I will guarantee you and my responsibility is that I will provide you with the best quality that I can.
[41:47] And I will give you a level of medical governance over that situation where I will offer you my medical services to ensure the fact that we try and do so as safely as possible.
[41:56] And so your way of doing it would be like test everything, make sure everything's looking good, then you get given the peptide and then monitoring it but then also retesting a couple of months or whatever down the track to make sure it's not ideal.
[42:11] That would be an ideal situation.
[42:13] See, many persons may consider these in the setting of injury and...
[42:17] Now, you can't then wait for an epigenomic test that takes six weeks to come back before you're otherwise going to try something, nor do you need to do a $2,500 test or testing an equivalent amount to try and treat your injury because that's impractical.
[42:31] Yeah, okay.
[42:32] If you're looking at it from a longer-term perspective...
[42:35] My insistence would be that if you can't do that, then you need to be careful about whether you should be taking it first on.
[42:41] Simple injuries at times, you might say, hey, I might check your liver and kidney, make sure they're okay.
[42:47] Let's just be sure about that.
[42:48] Then we do that and we're a very short period of time.
[42:51] There is still risk in that.
[42:53] Absolutely.
[42:55] I can't refute that in any way.
[42:57] However, life is all about risk-reward.
[42:59] Yeah.
[43:00] Yeah.
[43:01] Do you ever turn down someone that's wanting a peptide?
[43:04] Is there like red flags and you're like, no, I'm not giving you this?
[43:08] And then also, is there an age...
[43:11] limit, like for instance, a 21-year-old coming in and going, hey, I want a copper peptide to vanity in skin.
[43:19] Are you like, hell no?
[43:22] Like is there an age that you're like, you are not having a peptide, you're young.
[43:25] Or a presentation.
[43:26] Yeah, because being in your 20s, like you can heal pretty quickly.
[43:29] You know, you still got that.
[43:31] And I understand for athletes are different, like really injured.
[43:34] But like, yeah, is there an age limit you're like, no, and you have to fit a criteria and have you ever gone,
[43:40] You are not having it.
[43:40] You've got a red... That's a red flag.
[43:42] My age limit would be an adult because you've got to be informed.
[43:47] And it's from a legal perspective because if I'm going to get someone to sign a consent waiver, I need them to be legally able to do so.
[43:53] I wouldn't be in a circumstance where I'm going to allow a child to take it and have a parent sign on their behalf.
[43:58] I think that pushes my morals and my ethics further.
[44:02] And some would argue and say, well, why are you giving people stuff that you can't prove?
[44:06] We do lots of things that we can't prove.
[44:08] In medicine, we do it still when someone perhaps has a tumour which is unable to be treated.
[44:13] We'll encourage you to be experimental and try to go into this trial or do whichever.
[44:17] I get the fact that it's a little bit different in terms of because it's a monitored circumstance.
[44:22] We're trying to do the same thing here, not at the same level that they might do within clinical trials, but nonetheless in a similar sort of type path.
[44:30] In terms of whether there's someone who's too old, no, no one is too old.
[44:34] In fact, I had a person tell me the other day that they had a lady in her 70s came up to her and asking for peptides, and she's gone, oh, my goodness, do you know what they're all about?
[44:43] She goes, I've been taking it for 25 years.
[44:45] My GP retired in his 70s and I need someone else to prescribe it for me, please.
[44:49] So do you have a bum bag with peptides in there?
[44:53] And she was on one of these peptides.
[44:54] So there's no reason why not.
[44:56] I think we're more afraid of older persons because they're more likely to potentially have a tumor.
[45:00] And that is what concerns us.
[45:02] So that is one of the contraindications is cancer.
[45:05] That is one of the big ones because...
[45:08] I can't say no, that it's not going to make it worse.
[45:10] And I would hate to be that person who makes that happen.
[45:12] Yeah.
[45:12] And I think where someone has a level of chronic disease, which is significantly impacting their life, you have to be very careful where you push that circumstance.
[45:21] Exactly.
[45:21] Really, really, really careful.
[45:22] So it's almost like you're pushing the person who's not yet broken, who's breaking.
[45:26] And that's where we're trying to support your lifestyle and support you back to where you want to be.
[45:31] Yeah.
[45:32] What's the healing mechanism that this peptide, body-protecting compound BPC, scientifically does to the muscle?
[45:39] So we're talking about BPC-157 and also Thymosin-beta-4 or TB500, Thymosin-beta-500.
[45:45] And the difference between those is the fact that Thymosin-beta-500 is a small fragment of TB4, effectively.
[45:51] So they're similar action in a sense.
[45:53] But what they otherwise then do is that they'll otherwise increase blood flow to an area.
[45:57] And they'll generally attract cells, or the theory is that they will attract cells, which will otherwise then help lay down tissue to otherwise repair.
[46:05] So they're almost like a signaling circumstance to repair better and to attract the building blocks.
[46:10] It's like saying, please give me seven brick layers to build that wall and make sure the bricks are never in short supply.
[46:18] And that's what we're otherwise trying to do.
[46:19] Okay.
[46:20] So we're trying to increase the activity rate at which that otherwise happens.
[46:24] Hence the reason why people sometimes are concerned about the tumour risk because you've got ever-evolving cells which are turning over really, really fast and that may well otherwise happen.
[46:33] Yeah, so you don't want to supercharge that.
[46:35] And that's the concern that we always have.
[46:36] So that's the process in which it otherwise then happens.
[46:39] And there are certainly the biochemical elements within that sort of range, but that's what it does.
[46:42] And they will secrete certainly some cytokines and the like, which will decrease pain and decrease inflammation a bit quicker than what you might normally do too.
[46:51] Speaking of, you said AFL players, these are banned for professional, any elite sports person.
[46:59] So they can come and see you afterwards once they've retired, but this is highly banned for an athlete.
[47:06] Any person who's associated with a code that signs up to WIDA, which is covered by Sports Integrity Australia, are not able to take, well, they can take it.
[47:14] It's not illegal to take.
[47:16] They're illegal to compete or to be associated with that particular sport.
[47:20] If you take a peptide as an athlete and they do a blood test, can they pick it up?
[47:25] Remember, it has a very, very short half-life.
[47:27] Yeah, how do they catch people out using it?
[47:29] I think that's largely why.
[47:30] Two weeks to five.
[47:31] Yeah, so traditionally in testing, we'll otherwise do urine testing.
[47:34] Yeah, okay.
[47:35] Now, I've just told you the fact that many of these things are gone outside the system inside a couple of days.
[47:40] So I think that's why various sporting bodies may have included hair testing now soon.
[47:45] Okay, the hair testing shows how much?
[47:47] Three months worth of drug exposure.
[47:49] Shame the hair's waxing, backside's cracked.
[47:53] But you can't cut that hair that's underneath the skin.
[47:56] Oh, yeah, the follicle.
[47:57] There you go.
[47:58] So they wait and they do it again.
[48:00] Yeah.
[48:01] And is that pretty reliable, that hair testing?
[48:03] It's becoming more reliable.
[48:04] Okay, guys, don't be shaving your heads and using peptides, AFL players.
[48:08] We'll get you.
[48:10] You know, you've got to think that perhaps there's a bit of that potentially going on and some people will run that risk, you know.
[48:16] Yeah, exactly.
[48:17] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[48:18] Well, we know that countries have been done.
[48:20] We know people have been done for it.
[48:21] Yeah.
[48:22] Olympics and so forth.
[48:23] Yeah.
[48:24] Yeah.
[48:24] Okay.
[48:25] Now, the last one we wanted to talk to you about today, longevity is such a buzzword at the moment.
[48:29] It's huge.
[48:29] And peptides like epitalon.
[48:31] Is that how you say it?
[48:32] Epitalon?
[48:32] I call it epitalon.
[48:34] Epitalon.
[48:34] Epitalon.
[48:35] Epitalon.
[48:36] Epitalon.
[48:37] I call it epitalon.
[48:38] It's spelled E-P-I-T-A-L-O-N. Tomato, tomato.
[48:40] Yeah, yeah.
[48:41] Epitalon.
[48:42] Potato, potato.
[48:43] This gets mentioned a lot in the world.
[48:45] So are we looking at something genuinely promising there or is the science still very early?
[48:51] Talk to us about epitalon.
[48:52] A pit-a-lon.
[48:53] A pit-a-lon.
[48:54] A pit-a-lon.
[48:55] Largely the research around a pit-a-lon is from Russia back in the 70s and 80s where they did extensive studies through that period of time and nowhere else has that been replicated since.
[49:07] Have you seen Putin?
[49:08] He's still going.
[49:09] Oh, mate, whatever Putin's on.
[49:10] Yeah, he's on this.
[49:11] He's on some stuff.
[49:13] He's on all this stuff.
[49:14] He's on a horse with no top on his, are they?
[49:16] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[49:16] And how old's he, 100?
[49:17] Yeah.
[49:20] We believe that what it does there is it increases telomerase.
[49:23] Now, telomerase will otherwise then elongate these things called telomeres.
[49:27] And telomeres are probably best looked at in terms of a protective element to your DNA.
[49:32] So they try and prevent DNA being damaged, be it by sun and the like, if you will.
[49:37] So what we do know is that telomere lengths, if you will, are associated with chronic disease processes.
[49:43] The shorter your telomeres are, the greater the risk of chronic disease.
[49:47] And the faster you age.
[49:48] the faster you age.
[49:49] So in the longevity space, telomerase or epitolon has otherwise become quite a craze.
[49:55] Now, it's quite a minimally intrusive sort of type peptide because you only take it every six months.
[50:00] And is it an injectable?
[50:01] It's an injectable form, but you only use it for maybe 10 or a 21-day sort of cycle.
[50:06] Animal data shows the fact that, you know, we'll make rats and mice and rabbits and goats live 30% longer by using epitolon.
[50:14] So largely it should be looked upon almost because we're not going to know in humans what's otherwise going to happen for another 40, 50, 60 years in a broader population.
[50:25] And even then we're not really starting trials as much as we're actually all just trying it, if you will.
[50:29] It almost should be seen like a small little insurance policy or a small little superannuation fund.
[50:34] I'm going to do that.
[50:36] Just in case.
[50:37] Yeah.
[50:37] And I think that's probably what largely drives a pitilong is a bit of, is there myth in it?
[50:41] Absolutely.
[50:43] Yeah.
[50:43] Does it hurt?
[50:44] Probably not.
[50:45] And again, I can't make that claim, but some people believe in Santa Claus and some people believe in the tooth fairy.
[50:52] I do.
[50:52] I'm not going to debunk that.
[50:54] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[50:55] What I'm going to say is the fact that largely Santa Claus isn't going to hurt you.
[50:59] Yeah.
[50:59] We don't believe that a pitilong will otherwise do the same.
[51:02] But again, you do it, you get it right from the correct source.
[51:06] And can you get, do people take it here?
[51:09] Yes.
[51:10] Do people stack peptides?
[51:13] Yes, they stack them in as much as they'll take them at the same time or with overlapping periods of time.
[51:21] In fact, you can get peptides which will all occur in the one dose.
[51:26] And so you're only taking one needle.
[51:28] Certainly wouldn't suggest that very much when you're first beginning because, again, you're looking to make sure that they're safe in the first part.
[51:35] So you would try them individually to begin before you would then take multiple sort of tests.
[51:39] Just in case there's a reaction.
[51:41] Correct.
[51:41] Something with one and not the other.
[51:43] Correct.
[51:43] But over a period of time, if you've been able to demonstrate to yourself and to whoever might be prescribing that they appear to be safe and you've had testing which shows the fact that I'm not looking or seeing any ill effects, they may be happening but we don't see any, then you would feel more comfortable in actually stacking them together.
[52:01] With the BPC-157 for, obviously, recovery, has anyone looked at doing that in a cream?
[52:09] So the delivery systems are really interesting because people are looking at patches for peptides.
[52:13] People who are needle-averse, you can take, as I said, BPC orally.
[52:18] They're looking at even intranosal sprays.
[52:21] So there are lots of different ways in which they can be delivered.
[52:23] Largely by having it done subcutaneously, we bypass what we call first-pass metabolism.
[52:29] So we bypass the ability or the need for it to be metabolized through the liver first.
[52:34] So we can be sure that if I give you a particular dose, that dose is entering your system.
[52:39] We don't rely upon the gut to absorb it or not to utilize it.
[52:43] we don't rely upon the skin to absorb it because it might be too dry or it might be too whatever.
[52:47] So it's more the reliability of dosing, especially when dosing is one of those questions that we don't know what is a safer or less safe dose.
[52:54] Just to finish, I saw something on the news where they were talking about peptides.
[53:00] Everyone's talking about peptides.
[53:02] And they said in a few years, there will be a peptide for everything.
[53:06] Everything.
[53:07] For anxiety, for energy, for hair growth.
[53:09] Like literally you name a health condition or a psychological condition and there'll be a peptide for a spray, a capsule, an injection.
[53:17] What are your thoughts on this?
[53:19] I don't disagree with that at all.
[53:20] I think what will happen is the fact that you'll have your peptide and Jess will have her peptide so that they'll be catered for to yourself.
[53:28] We're starting to do that now with even things like IV hydrations and the like, understanding what your deficiencies are and trying to give you some of those vitamins according to you rather than generic levels.
[53:39] And I think that's what everyone's wanting to do.
[53:41] We're sort of doing that with dieticians.
[53:43] We do that with our PT trainers.
[53:45] Yes, I do that with my gastroenterologist.
[53:47] Correct.
[53:48] Gut biomes.
[53:49] I only take probiotics that have been specifically tested from stool samples of what I need and what I'm lacking instead of just a one-size-size-size.
[53:56] Correct.
[53:56] They're very specific.
[53:58] Correct.
[53:58] Like a probiotic, like a sommelier.
[54:01] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[54:02] It makes sense.
[54:03] It really makes sense.
[54:04] You know, if you don't taste bitter, well, why are you having bitter foods?
[54:07] Yeah, yeah.
[54:29] Peptides are doing the same thing.
[54:31] Well, thank you so much for coming on.
[54:32] That's okay.
[54:33] And one last thing.
[54:34] For listeners leaving this podcast are curious about peptides, what are the most important things you think people should keep in mind?
[54:42] I think the important part is to understand why you're seeking to otherwise utilize peptides.
[54:47] I think what you should do then is to seek appropriate medical advice and your first stop really should be your local GP.
[54:53] What we need to do is to rule out any particular problem that you otherwise might have, which may be really quite very simple to otherwise then deal with and negate that need to take those things.
[55:03] but also then to ensure the fact that you otherwise then get appropriate testing, more particularly appropriate supervision, and that you can ensure the fact that you get what you're asking for.
[55:13] Makes sense.
[55:13] Makes sense.
[55:14] You're going to do it?
[55:15] Do it the proper way.
[55:16] Yeah, and not the Temu way.
[55:19] Exactly.
[55:19] Thank you so much.
[55:20] It was awesome having you on.
[55:21] No worries.
[55:21] I feel like I've still got more questions.
[55:23] Have we missed anything, listeners?
[55:25] This is our second episode exploring the world of peptides and wellness trends.
[55:29] So if you missed our first episode on GLP-1 medications and the conversation around them, head to our show notes or Instagram at Vanish Podcast for the link.
[55:39] We'd love to hear from you.
[55:40] What peptide topics are you still curious about?
[55:43] Send us your DMs, a slide into the Vanish Podcast DMs, and send us voice notes as well.
[55:50] We'd love to hear from you.
[55:51] Bye for now.
[55:59] Gonna say.

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