# 3 Cold Cases That Need To Be Solved

An episode of [Lazy Chill True Crime](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1815534472), 9 Aug 2025, 37 min.

Audio: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/APO9860321017.mp3

Join me as we discuss the true crime cold cases of Robby Peay, Renee Nilsson and Meriwether Lewis. Chapters: 0:00 Robby Peay 8:41 Renee Nilsson (Del Rey Jane Doe) 15:18 Meriwether Lewis 🛍️ Merch: https://lazy-chill-zone-shop.fourthwall.com ❤️ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lazychillzone 👇 Youtube links: Lazy Chill True Crime Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8dVJtzeHcJgd_Z0bHrJTHQ Lazy Chill History Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@LazyChillHistory Lazy Chill Zone Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@LazyChillZone 👇Social Media Links: https://www.instagram.com/lazychillzone/ 👇 Podcast links: ⚡True Crime Podcast on Spotify⚡: https://open.spotify.com/show/0klIz08pAr7wR4we0Ia4sk?si=68qZxCeAQkysXzMZrHE0Iw 🍏 True Crime Podcast on Apple 🍎: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lazy-chill-true-crime/id1815534472 Robby Peay, Renee Nilsson, Meriwether Lewis, true crime podcast, cold case podcast, unsolved murders, missing persons, historical cold cases, mysterious deaths, Robby Peay case, Renee Nilsson case, Meriwether Lewis death, true crime mysteries, unexplained deaths, crime investigation podcast, historical true crime, cold case files, eerie disappearances, suspicious deaths, unsolved true crime, American cold cases, true crime 2025, chilling true crime stories

## Transcript

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[0:30] On a cold February day in 1983, Park Rangers in Utah's Arches
[0:35] National Park made a grim. Discovery.
[0:38] It was the. Body of a young man half buried
[0:40] in the red desert sand with a bullet wound in his skull.
[0:45] With no identification and advance decomposition, the
[0:49] victim became known as yet another one of the nation's John
[0:52] Does. It took 42 years of detective
[0:55] work before authorities. Finally put a name to that John
[0:59] Doe. He turned out to be Robbie Pay,
[1:02] a 17 year old who had vanished just a few months before his
[1:05] body was found. Identifying him answered one
[1:09] question, but raised another. Who ended the life?
[1:13] Of Robbie. And why Robbie Pay was 17 years
[1:20] old and from Provo. Utah.
[1:22] In the fall of 1982, he was staying at a youth center in
[1:25] Salt Lake. City, which is.
[1:27] Essentially A juvenile facility where parents send their quote
[1:30] UN quote troubled teens. These are highly controversial,
[1:35] private. Facilities that seem to.
[1:36] Impose weird and draconian punishments upon teens
[1:40] undergoing normal. Rebellious phases as they.
[1:43] Transition to Adulthood On October 7th, 1982, Robbie
[1:51] escaped from that center and never returned.
[1:54] His family reported him missing and police opened a case to find
[1:58] the runaway teen. Investigators later learned that
[2:02] after running away, Robbie had been in contact with a 56 year
[2:06] old man originally from the Netherlands, and the two were
[2:10] believed to have been living together in the months after.
[2:15] Robbie disappeared. There were.
[2:16] Hints he might. Still be alive.
[2:18] And friends reported occasional communication but all contact
[2:22] abruptly. Stopped.
[2:23] In early 1983. On February 12th, 1983, the
[2:29] mystery took a gruesome turn. Park staff at Arches National.
[2:33] Park discovered a body. In a remote area.
[2:35] Called the. 3 gossips formation This young male had been
[2:39] eliminated execution style the location was over 200 miles from
[2:44] Provo. The victim's physical.
[2:46] Characteristics Age, build, hair color.
[2:49] Strongly resembled Robbie, investigators immediately
[2:53] suspected this John Doe might be the missing teen.
[2:57] However, confirming the identity proved difficult.
[3:01] Decomposition had destroyed many identifying features.
[3:05] Investigators compared the John Doe's teeth.
[3:07] With Robbie's Dental. Records, but initially they
[3:10] didn't find a match. Years later, they would discover
[3:14] a clerical. Error in how Robbie's dental.
[3:16] X-rays were filed. Which had messed up the
[3:19] comparison with no positive ID. Authorities listed the desert.
[3:24] John Doe as an unsolved slaying. The unknown victim was buried in
[3:29] an unmarked grave in Moab and Robbie Pay remained a missing
[3:33] person. By 1990, after eight years
[3:38] without answers, Robbie's family had him declared.
[3:41] Legally. Deceased and placed a gravestone
[3:44] for him in the Provo City Cemetery in 1990. 3A decade.
[3:50] After Robbie vanished, A shocking piece of evidence
[3:53] surfaced. Robbie's pickup truck was.
[3:56] Found underwater in Lake Powell. On the Utah Arizona border.
[4:00] Drought conditions had. Lowered the water level.
[4:03] And exposed the submerged vehicle even more telling.
[4:08] A rope was tied to the. Steering wheel indicating the
[4:11] truck had been sent into the. Lake deliberately Over the
[4:16] years, police also fielded some. Strange.
[4:18] Tips about Robbie's. Fate One lead claimed he was
[4:22] living in Colorado under an alias.
[4:24] Another alleged he was slain during a dangerous game of
[4:27] Russian roulette and buried in the mountains.
[4:30] Both stories were investigated and.
[4:32] Dismissed as baseless by the authorities throughout.
[4:37] This time, one person of interest lingered on the.
[4:40] Periphery the older. Man from the Netherlands.
[4:44] After Robbie disappeared. That man.
[4:47] Also left Utah, reportedly. Returning to Europe, he has
[4:52] never been located and it is uncertain if he's alive at this
[4:55] point, given that he would be well into his 90s.
[5:00] Authorities haven't formally called him A.
[5:02] Suspect, but they still. Want to talk to him believing he
[5:06] might know? Details about Robbie's final
[5:08] days notably, police found. Letters the man had written to
[5:12] Robbie among the teens belongings, though the exact
[5:16] nature of these letters isn't known to the public.
[5:20] In 2018, Provo Police. Took a fresh.
[5:23] Look with new technology. Detectives entered Robbie's.
[5:27] Information into name us a national missing person.
[5:30] Database. And got a crucial break.
[5:33] A forensic dentist noticed that Robbie's dental records had been
[5:37] entered incorrectly in the system when the.
[5:40] Error was corrected the. Record showed a strong
[5:43] similarity between Robbie and the John Doe's teeth.
[5:48] This gave investigators renewed hope that the John Doe was
[5:51] indeed Robbie Pay. Still, they needed DNA evidence
[5:57] to be. Sure, that posed.
[5:59] A challenge the case. Was so old that.
[6:01] Obtaining DNA from the John Doe's remains was difficult and
[6:05] Robbie had been adopted. As a baby.
[6:08] This meant that investigators couldn't simply ask his.
[6:11] Relatives for a sample. An earlier attempt to extract
[6:15] DNA from a. Lock of Robbie's hair had failed
[6:18] to yield results. Though improved forensic
[6:21] technology eventually. Did lead to a.
[6:24] Profile The team petitioned the courts.
[6:27] To unseal his adoption. Records and in 2022 succeeded.
[6:33] From those records, they identified a living biological
[6:36] uncle of Robbie's and obtained adna swab from him.
[6:42] When Robbie's uncle's DNA was compared to the DNA profile, it
[6:46] matched. The identification was
[6:48] officially announced in March 2025, and the first part of the.
[6:53] Decades. Old mystery was finally solved.
[6:56] Robbie's family, after so many years of not knowing, learned
[7:00] his fate at last, unfortunately. It was a bittersweet
[7:04] breakthrough. Given that friends and family
[7:06] had long clung to the rumors that he had simply started up a
[7:10] new life, now that Robbie's identity is known, his case has
[7:16] been reclassified as an active investigation into his slaying
[7:20] detectives are poring over. The old case.
[7:22] File and evidence with. Fresh eyes.
[7:25] Determined to find out who was responsible for his slaying 1.
[7:29] Obvious focus is the. Older man who was with Robbie
[7:32] after he ran away. His sudden departure abroad
[7:36] after 1983 is more than a little.
[7:38] Suspicious. And investigators believe he may
[7:41] hold crucial information about the case.
[7:45] Another angle is the sunken truck with the lengths taken to
[7:49] hide. Bobby's vehicle.
[7:50] Suggesting a likely premeditated.
[7:52] Cover up, it's. Unclear if any meaningful
[7:55] forensic evidence was recovered from the vehicle, though
[7:59] ultimately given the amount of time it's spent.
[8:01] Underwater I would suspect. That it wouldn't be.
[8:05] That said. We don't know for.
[8:07] Sure, but if the. Person who disposed of.
[8:09] The vehicle could be. Found.
[8:11] It's likely that the. Perpetrator.
[8:13] Would be as well so far. No suspects have been publicly
[8:19] named, though personally I think we're all suspecting the 57 year
[8:23] old definitely had a hand in it. Obviously there was something
[8:28] extremely sinister going on there.
[8:30] Though of course. Without knowing the nature of
[8:32] the relationship, this can only be grim speculation at this
[8:36] point with the case back in the spotlight and police using
[8:42] modern forensic methods to re examine the cold.
[8:44] Case clues. We may see a final resolution to
[8:47] Robbie's case one day soon. Hey everyone, it's Jimmy here.
[8:55] Taking a quick moment to jump in to remind you to like and
[8:59] subscribe and to hit the notification bell.
[9:02] Also remember to search up. Lazy, chill, true.
[9:04] Crime wherever. You get your podcasts.
[9:06] And follow me over there for more content.
[9:12] It was June 1984 when a gruesome discovery shocked Phoenix.
[9:17] Inside a dumpster in an industrial area lay the
[9:21] dismembered torso of a young female.
[9:24] For over 40 years she was known only as the unidentified Delray
[9:28] Jane Doe, but now her name has finally been restored.
[9:33] She was Renee Nilson, a 14 year old girl who vanished after
[9:37] leaving home to go swimming. With her identity uncovered.
[9:41] Decades later, the haunting question remains, who committed
[9:45] this sick act and why? Renee Nilson was just 14 years
[9:52] old and lived in Phoenix, AZ in late May 1980.
[9:56] Four. She left.
[9:58] Her home one afternoon to go swimming and never returned.
[10:02] Her family reported her missing and a frantic search began in
[10:05] vain. About two weeks after Renee
[10:10] disappeared on June 10th, 1984, partial human remains were
[10:16] discovered in a dumpster near 21st Ave. and McDowell Rd. in
[10:20] Phoenix. The remains were wrapped in
[10:22] newspapers dated June. 3rd suggesting.
[10:25] The victim had been slain. Shortly after that date, the
[10:29] perpetrator had severed the. Victim's head and limbs,
[10:32] presumably with a saw, and those parts were never recovered.
[10:37] This brutal mutilation made it immediately clear that someone
[10:40] was attempting to cover up the identity of the slain
[10:43] individual. Identifying the victim was
[10:47] extremely difficult with so much of the body missing at the time,
[10:52] no one realized this Jane Doe might be the same girl who had
[10:55] gone missing 2 weeks earlier. Further the.
[10:58] Presumed age and circumstances just didn't line up with a 14
[11:01] year old, so Renee's missing person report remained unlinked
[11:05] to the body. Investigators initially guessed
[11:09] the Jane Doe was a white female around 18 years.
[11:12] Old. Further, forensic experts
[11:15] theorize she might have been a young.
[11:16] Mother a hypothesis later. Proven false when her true age
[11:20] came to light. With no name.
[11:23] The unknown girl. Was dubbed the Delray.
[11:25] Jane Doe after. The area where she.
[11:28] Was found. Despite a police.
[11:31] Investigation No immediate suspects or leads emerged in the
[11:35] pre DNA era of 1984. Without an identity or
[11:39] eyewitnesses, the case eventually went cold and
[11:43] languished for decades as an unsolved mystery.
[11:49] In 2023, the dormant case was reopened thanks to advances in
[11:53] forensic technology. The Maricopa County Medical
[11:57] Examiner's Office partnered with the DNA Doe Project, a nonprofit
[12:01] specializing in identifying cold case remains, to analyze the
[12:05] Jane Doe's DNA. By 2024, genealogists had
[12:11] developed adna profile and found.
[12:13] Matches to some distant. Relatives Using family tree
[12:17] research, they eventually discovered that the unidentified
[12:21] victim was Renee Isabel Nielsen. The same 14 year old reported
[12:26] missing in Phoenix in 1984. Modern forensic anthropology
[12:31] also helped correct the original age estimate, confirming the
[12:35] victim was much younger than investigators in 1984 believed.
[12:39] In May 2025, additional DNA testing confirmed the match,
[12:44] finally giving the Delray Doe her name back, notably as
[12:50] genetic genealogist. Worked through her case.
[12:53] They uncovered A bizarre potential clue, and I say
[12:57] potential clue because there's nothing as of yet to indicate.
[13:00] That this is actually related to the case directly, but it's very
[13:04] weird. And extremely unsettling.
[13:08] A person stole Renee's name and identity, and it appeared on a
[13:12] 1987 marriage certificate three years after.
[13:15] She was deceased. Essentially, an unknown
[13:19] individual assumed the identity of a slain 14 year old, adding a
[13:23] whole new. Layer to the case.
[13:25] Detectives now have to consider not only who had slain Renee,
[13:29] but who took her name, and whether those two questions
[13:32] might have the same answer. With Renee's identity uncovered,
[13:38] investigators are actively pursuing leads to finally
[13:41] identify the perpetrator. One theory centers on the
[13:44] mysterious woman who stole Renee's identity if this person
[13:48] knew Renee was missing. Or dead, It's possible.
[13:52] She was involved in the crime, perhaps the perpetrator.
[13:56] Or an accomplice. Assumed Renee's identity to hide
[13:59] their own past or to start a new life.
[14:02] So far the. Person behind this identity
[14:04] fraud has not been named publicly, but finding her could
[14:08] be the key to cracking the. Case police are.
[14:11] Working to track down this individual, seeing if she had
[14:15] any link to Renee or motive to harm her.
[14:18] The idea that the. Perpetrator might have literally
[14:20] taken over the victim's identity.
[14:22] Seems like something out of a movie.
[14:24] Or show, but it's a lead. Authorities can't ignore.
[14:30] Another theory is that Renee was the victim of a random predator,
[14:34] an unknown attacker with no personal connection to her.
[14:37] The sheer. Brutality of the.
[14:39] Slaying suggests a deeply disturbed offender who may have
[14:42] struck opportunistically. Renee could have been abducted
[14:46] by a stranger. After she left.
[14:48] Home targeted at random by someone cruising for a victim
[14:53] Back in 1984, investigators considered the possibility of a
[14:57] Quote UN quote. Psycho serial predator at.
[15:01] Work. However, no other slayings in
[15:04] Phoenix were definitively linked to.
[15:06] This case. That said, it might have.
[15:08] Been a one off crime by someone passing through, which is why no
[15:12] connection has ever been made. Today, Renee Nelson's slaying
[15:18] remains. Unsolved but the case.
[15:20] Is far from closed. Detectives have stressed.
[15:23] That they will never give up on seeking justice for Renee.
[15:27] The combination of modern DNA technology and renewed public
[15:31] interest has given this 41 year old case fresh momentum.
[15:36] Investigators are re examining evidence, following new tips and
[15:41] continuing to explore the identity theft angle.
[15:50] As the midnight hush blanketed the Tennessee wilderness, 2
[15:53] gunshots rang out from a lonely inn along the Natchez Trace on
[15:57] October 11th, 18 O 9 when dawn broke America's famed explorer.
[16:03] Meriwether Lewis was found. Mortally wounded, bleeding from
[16:07] gunshot wounds to the head and. Chest.
[16:10] Just three years earlier, Lewis had.
[16:12] Returned as a national hero from an epic journey across the
[16:16] uncharted W, now at only. 35 years old.
[16:22] He lay dead under mysterious circumstances until.
[16:26] This day, historians still debate whether his.
[16:28] Demise was the final act of a troubled.
[16:30] Soul or the bloody? Deed of an unknown assailant
[16:36] Born in Virginia in 1774, Merriweather Lewis was an
[16:40] American explorer, soldier and politician best known for his.
[16:44] Role as leader of the. Lewis and Clark Expedition From
[16:48] a young age, Lewis proved himself an outdoorsman with keen
[16:52] survival skills on the frontier. He served in the militia and
[16:56] U.S. Army, where he gained leadership
[16:59] experience on the western frontier in 17.
[17:02] O one, President Thomas. Jefferson, a family friend,
[17:07] chose the 27 year old Lewis to. Serve as his.
[17:10] Personal secretary in the President's house, Jefferson
[17:14] soon tapped Lewis to command an ambitious mission that would
[17:18] make him one of. History's great explorers.
[17:21] Lewis recruited his. Former army comrade William.
[17:24] Clark as Co captain. And together they prepared to
[17:28] venture into the vast unknown lands recently acquired by the
[17:31] United States. In May 18, O 4, Merriweather
[17:38] Lewis and William Clark set off from St.
[17:40] Louis at the head of the Corps of Discovery.
[17:43] This was a team. Of about 40 people.
[17:46] Tasked with exploring the Louisiana Purchase and beyond
[17:50] over the next 2 1/2 years, the expedition travelled nearly 8000
[17:55] miles through wilderness, traversing the Great Plains,
[17:59] over the Rocky Mountains and all the.
[18:01] Way to the Pacific. Ocean and.
[18:04] Once they got to the. Pacific.
[18:06] They turned around and did it all over again.
[18:10] Along the journey, Lewis and his team mapped uncharted rivers and
[18:14] mountains and made contact with many Native American tribes,
[18:18] securing peaceable relations and gathering information.
[18:23] Their successful trek. Proved that overland travel.
[18:25] To the Pacific was possible. And helped ignite America's
[18:28] vision of manifest destiny. Lewis returned to Saint Louis in
[18:33] September 18 O. 6 as a celebrated hero of discovery.
[18:38] He and Clark. Were hailed for their.
[18:39] Courage and achievements, and few figures loomed larger in the
[18:43] American imagination than these two figures.
[18:49] Lewis's life. After the expedition, however,
[18:52] was far from the victorious glory one might imagine in 17 O
[18:56] seven President Jefferson. Rewarded his protege by.
[18:59] Appointing Lewis governor. Of the upper Louisiana.
[19:02] Territory A vast jurisdiction based in Saint Louis.
[19:07] At just 33. Lewis suddenly had heavy
[19:10] administrative responsibilities on the frontier.
[19:13] He tried to carry out Jefferson's vision in the
[19:15] territory, publishing laws, establishing roads and
[19:21] negotiating with various Native American tribes, however.
[19:25] Lewis. Struggled in his new role and he
[19:28] ended up in conflict with his own administration and he even
[19:32] faced allegations of misappropriating government
[19:34] funds. Because of these allegations, 1
[19:38] governmental department refused to reimburse him for money he
[19:42] had paid out for governmental tasks, leaving him crushed
[19:45] financially. He ended up heavily in debt and
[19:49] creditors demanded their money, forcing him to liquidate land
[19:53] he'd earned for his expedition service.
[19:56] By eighteen O 9 the once renowned.
[19:59] Explorer was facing ruinous. Debt and a damaged reputation.
[20:05] Lewis also failed to. Produce the edited journals of
[20:08] the expedition for publication, a task.
[20:11] Jefferson. Eagerly awaited the pressure.
[20:15] Of that unfinished work weighed on him, and he struggled with
[20:18] loneliness and ill health he never married or found lasting.
[20:22] Love and some accounts suggest he struggled.
[20:26] With addiction, friends grew concerned as.
[20:29] Lewis reportedly cycled. Between intense bouts of energy
[20:32] and dark periods of depression, one month he would be highly
[20:36] expansive and productive, and the next month he would be
[20:39] virtually unable to function. Even Thomas Jefferson noted that
[20:44] Lewis's family had a history of quote UN quote hypochondriac
[20:48] affections, a term now generally understood to describe the ups
[20:53] and down of. Bipolar disorder, All of these
[20:56] troubles set the stage. For a journey that.
[20:59] Lewis hoped would solve. His problems, but which instead
[21:02] led to his tragic end by September 17 O 9.
[21:08] Meriwether Lewis. Decided to travel.
[21:10] To Washington, DC to straighten out his affairs.
[21:14] He planned to personally appeal the government's.
[21:16] Refusal to pay his bills. And clear his name of any
[21:20] wrongdoing. He also.
[21:22] Carried his precious expedition journals, intending to finally
[21:26] get them into the hands of a publisher.
[21:29] Lewis departed. Saint Louis on September 4th, 18
[21:32] O 9 accompanied by his personal servant, a free African American
[21:37] man named John Pernia. Initially, Lewis intended to.
[21:43] Take a riverboat. South to New Orleans and catch a
[21:45] ship to Washington. However, on route, rumors of a
[21:49] conflict with Britain made him fear that travelling by.
[21:52] Sea could be risky. He couldn't bear the thought of.
[21:55] British. Forces seizing his journals.
[21:57] If war broke out. This would have been, in
[22:00] essence, a national security nightmare and would have given
[22:05] the British a massive advantage on the West Coast and the Great
[22:08] Plains region. Thus he altered his.
[22:13] Plans and opted for an overland route via the Natchez Trace, the
[22:17] Old Frontier Rd. through the wilderness from Mississippi up
[22:20] to Nashville. This route was notoriously
[22:24] dangerous. The Natchez.
[22:26] Trace was plagued by. Highwaymen who preyed on
[22:28] travellers. Aware of the risks, Lewis even
[22:32] wrote his will. Before setting out.
[22:36] Lewis reached. Fort Pickering, near present day
[22:39] Memphis by river on September 15th, 18 O 9.
[22:44] There, witnesses began to sense something was amiss in the
[22:47] explorer's state of mind the captain of the.
[22:51] Boat that brought Lewis. Downriver later reported that
[22:54] Lewis had been acting strangely during the trip.
[22:57] He noted that at one point. Lewis was.
[22:59] Suffering what was. Described as a.
[23:01] Quote UN Quote Mental derangement.
[23:06] Fort Pickering's commander detained.
[23:08] Lewis for several days. Until he seemed to recover his
[23:11] senses on September 29th. Lewis left Fort.
[23:15] Pickering to continue overland on the Natchez.
[23:18] Trace. Now travelling with Major James
[23:20] Neely, it didn't take long for Lewis's companions.
[23:24] To observe his disturbed. Frame of mind returning
[23:28] According to one account, Lewis again appeared, quote deranged,
[23:32] shortly after leaving the Fort. Clearly, the governor was under
[23:36] severe psychological strain as he pushed deeper into the lonely
[23:40] frontier. By early October.
[23:45] The party was making its. Way through the thick.
[23:47] Forests of Tennessee on October 10th, 18 O 9 Merriweather.
[23:53] Lewis arrived. At a remote roadside inn known
[23:56] as Grinders Stand about 70 miles southwest of Nashville.
[24:01] Along the Natchez Trace. Because Major Neely had fallen
[24:05] behind, delayed to round up some stray horses, Louis came to the
[24:10] inn with just his servant John Pernia and Neely's servant as
[24:14] companions. The inn was a crude log cabin
[24:18] outfit run by Robert Grinder. And his wife, Priscilla.
[24:22] Mr. Grinder was away, but Missus Grinder offered lodging.
[24:26] She gave Louis the use of. A small cabin room while the two
[24:29] servants stayed in the stable and she and her children slept
[24:33] in a separate kitchen building a short distance away.
[24:38] Accounts. Agree that Lewis was.
[24:39] Agitated and behaving oddly on the evening of October 10th,
[24:44] Missus Grinder later said that during dinner, Lewis stood and
[24:48] paced the room, talking to himself as if arguing points in
[24:52] a speech. Or legal case his face.
[24:54] Flushed with emotion, he eventually retired to his room,
[24:59] but throughout the night, the innkeeper's wife could hear him
[25:02] continuing to murmur and talk to himself in a passionate,
[25:06] unsettled tone. Sometime in the pre.
[25:11] Dawn hours of October. 11th The quiet darkness was pierced by
[25:15] the sound of a shot. According to Missus Grinder, she
[25:18] heard. Multiple shots.
[25:20] A scuffle. And a cry.
[25:22] For help from. Louis's cabin.
[25:25] Frightened. She didn't immediately.
[25:27] Rush over. By one report, she.
[25:30] Peered out. To see the wounded Louis
[25:31] crawling on hands and knees back into his room.
[25:35] After that. Things ended up getting even
[25:37] more unusual despite seeing and hearing what.
[25:43] She saw she. Did nothing until morning, which
[25:46] some sources call an inexplicable action to interject
[25:51] my own personal. View We've already established
[25:54] that she was. Operating a small roadside inn
[25:57] in a lawless part of the country and her husband was away.
[26:01] If Lewis was indeed attacked that night, it seems likely that
[26:05] her going out to confront the assailants may have simply led
[26:08] to more violence that night. At first light, Missus Grinder
[26:14] sent her children to find the servants.
[26:17] John Pernia and the other man ran to the cabin to discover
[26:20] Merryweather Lewis sprawled on the floor, bleeding profusely
[26:24] from 2 wounds, 1 in his head and one in his abdomen.
[26:30] Incredibly, Lewis was still clinging to life, though barely
[26:35] he was conscious enough to. Speak a few words where?
[26:37] He spoke incoherently, apparently stating that he
[26:40] wasn't a coward. But that he had to die.
[26:44] Over the next hour or two, Merriweather Lewis bled out on a
[26:47] Buffalo robe and by sunrise. The great explorer was dead.
[26:55] Lewis's sudden death was a devastating shock to those who
[26:58] heard the news. He had been only. 35 years old.
[27:02] And seemingly on the cusp of resolving his troubles, Major
[27:07] Neely arrived at Grinder Stand later on October 11th and was
[27:11] tasked with the grim duty of handling the remains in the.
[27:14] Absence of formal. Clergy or family Neely.
[27:17] Had Lewis's body. Buried near the inn, just a few
[27:20] 100 yards from the. Spot where he died.
[27:24] There was no ceremony, a tragic, quiet end for a national hero.
[27:29] Neely wrote to President Jefferson a week later,
[27:32] informing him that his friend had done this to himself.
[27:38] News of. Lewis's death traveled slowly by
[27:40] word. Of mouth and letters, but when
[27:42] it. Reached the wider public.
[27:44] It was often sensationalized. A Nashville newspaper printed a
[27:48] lurid account claiming to know. All the gory details.
[27:51] Of what happened? Other papers around?
[27:54] The Country reprinted and. Embellished the story from the
[27:58] very start. The facts of what?
[28:00] Happened in that lonely cabin were muddled by hearsay and
[28:03] speculation. No one had actually seen Louis.
[28:07] Fire the fatal shots. And the only supposed witness,
[28:10] Missus Priscilla Grinder, gave conflicting stories over time
[28:14] about what she heard and did that night.
[28:19] According to various second hand versions of Misses Grinder's
[28:22] testimony, her accounts differed on key details.
[28:25] In one version, she described hearing Lewis arguing loudly
[28:29] with himself and then the shots. After which he staggered.
[28:33] Wounded from his room, pleading for help before collapsing.
[28:38] In another version, she claimed that before the shooting, she
[28:42] heard voices of other men and a commotion, as if strangers had
[28:46] confronted Lewis. Yet Missus Grinder never wrote
[28:50] any statement down, and by the time others recorded her story,
[28:54] details had changed. This inconsistency has LED some
[29:00] to suspect that her testimony was fabricated.
[29:03] Or at the very. Least unreliable.
[29:05] Meanwhile, the physical evidence was troubling.
[29:09] Lewis had two. Wounds one in the head and one
[29:12] in the. Chest, yet somehow lived for a
[29:15] short time after. In addition, the money.
[29:18] Lewis had carried borrowed. To fund his travel was missing
[29:22] when his body was found missing funds and the dangerous
[29:26] reputation of the Natchez Trace. Fueled whispers that Lewis.
[29:30] Might have been ambushed by highwaymen.
[29:33] The area was indeed known for bandits who wouldn't hesitate to
[29:36] end the. Lives of travellers, however.
[29:39] Neither of the two servants present reported seeing any
[29:43] intruders that night. All we have are the eerie echoes
[29:47] of shots. In the dark and a handful of
[29:49] inconsistent recollections in keeping with frontier law, a
[29:56] local magistrate convened a brief coroner's inquest on
[29:59] Lewis's. Body shortly after his death,
[30:02] they're believed to have. Found no.
[30:04] Evidence of foul play. Unfortunately, the written
[30:07] report from this eighteen O 9. Inquest was later lost, so we
[30:12] don't. Know their exact conclusions or
[30:14] reasoning. There's actually a major hiccup
[30:17] in the case related to this initial inquest, though, and
[30:20] I'll circle back to that in a moment.
[30:24] Lewis's family back in Virginia. Was horrified at the.
[30:27] Suggestion that Merriweather would have done it to himself,
[30:31] his mother and. Relatives flatly believed he.
[30:34] Had been slain, suspecting either his servant Pernia or
[30:38] unknown. Robbers as the culprits.
[30:40] Governor Lewis's family, concerned with his legacy, found
[30:44] it hard to accept that a man of such stature could succumb to
[30:48] such an act, which in those days carried an extreme stigma.
[30:54] By contrast, Lewis's close friends and colleagues including
[30:58] William Clark and Thomas Jefferson.
[31:01] Had little doubt that Lewis perished.
[31:02] Due to his own acts upon receiving the tragic news,
[31:07] Jefferson wrote. That Lewis had a.
[31:08] Quote constitutional disposition toward depression and had
[31:13] experienced. Several severe depressive
[31:16] episodes. Before the former president
[31:19] sadly concluded that his friend became deranged and did it to
[31:23] himself, Clark too knew of Lewis's prior emotional
[31:27] struggles and accepted the official explanation, grieving
[31:31] that the weight of his comrades mind had overcome him.
[31:37] Over time, the death of Meriwether Lewis evolved into
[31:40] one of early America's great historical mysteries.
[31:43] With the 2. Positions being cemented almost
[31:45] immediately. The theory that he did it
[31:50] himself hinges on his pre-existing.
[31:52] Psychological issues which were exacerbated by his deep.
[31:56] Financial troubles. Further, he was keen on drinking
[32:00] and was also known to heavily engage in the use of laudanum.
[32:03] Further Factors. Which could have.
[32:05] Pushed him over the metaphorical edge, notably one modern.
[32:10] Hypothesis suggests he had. Contracted malaria during his
[32:13] many travels and late stage malaria can cause dementia,
[32:18] delirium and depressive episodes.
[32:21] Another theory claims he might. Have had syphilis.
[32:25] Which in advanced stages can lead to severe neurological and
[32:28] psychological symptoms. Whatever the exact cause.
[32:32] Proponents of this theory paint a picture of a man in deep
[32:36] despair who unfortunately felt like he had no options left.
[32:42] Yet despite the strong. Case.
[32:44] That he did it himself doubts have.
[32:47] Lingered from the beginning. Critics asked from the beginning
[32:50] why Missus Grinder didn't investigate.
[32:52] Immediately if she heard. Louis pleading for help.
[32:56] Her contradictory statements have led some to wonder if she
[32:59] concealed knowledge of other individuals at the scene in the
[33:05] most extreme form. Some have suggested that.
[33:08] This inn was. Actually a trap.
[33:10] And that the grinders were working in conjunction with
[33:12] local bandits. Under this theory, most of the
[33:16] time the inn was a perfectly legitimate institution for
[33:20] travellers passing through. However, when a traveller came
[33:24] through with a significant amount of wealth, the grinders
[33:28] would tip. Off local highwaymen.
[33:30] That they'd landed a big fish in their net.
[33:33] Under usual circumstances, The Highwaymen would then accost the
[33:36] traveller after stalking them beyond the inn so as not to
[33:40] raise suspicions. However, according to this
[33:44] theory, some believe greed may have taken hold quickly and they
[33:48] couldn't wait. John Pernia.
[33:53] Lewis's servant also. Comes under the microscope in
[33:56] some theories. Lewis's own mother reportedly
[34:00] suspected this servant. Might have slain her son for
[34:02] money and fled. People who believe Pernia.
[34:06] Was responsible claim that. He perished by his own hand.
[34:09] A. Few years later, however, all
[34:12] that the official. Records note.
[34:14] Is that he died. Of a laudanum overdose in 1810,
[34:18] which may very well have been accidental.
[34:22] Some theorists have speculated about political motives.
[34:25] For the slaying, suggesting perhaps someone wanted Lewis
[34:28] silenced, 1 Angle involved general James Wilkinson or other
[34:33] officials who might have been implicated in financial scandals
[34:37] notably, Wilkinson was known to be a scandalous individual
[34:40] during his lifetime, but the true bombshell about the man
[34:44] didn't come until. Well after his death.
[34:47] In 1854. He was revealed to.
[34:49] Have been a Spanish spy and it actually spent his life.
[34:53] Directly. Acting against American
[34:55] interests. That said, despite this.
[34:59] There's no hard evidence to. Suggest that Lewis was.
[35:02] Eliminated on the orders of Wilkinson.
[35:04] Though it is theoretically. Possible One intriguing piece of
[35:10] historical evidence favoring this hypothesis came decades.
[35:13] After Lewis's death. In 1848, Tennessee officials
[35:18] undertook. To locate.
[35:19] Lewis's neglected grave and erect a proper monument.
[35:23] When they partially exhumed his remains, the examining Dr. and
[35:27] Commission members were struck. By what they saw.
[35:30] The official report noted that while everyone had assumed Lewis
[35:33] committed the ACT himself, they found that his.
[35:36] Skull had received. Damage that wasn't explained,
[35:40] the report concluded. That it was probable.
[35:42] That he had been slain. But given the passage of time,
[35:46] they couldn't offer anything further in the way of analysis.
[35:50] The startling conclusion by a state Commission 39 years.
[35:53] After the fact gave the theory. A kind of early forensic boost
[36:00] In 1996, a coroner's jury in Lewis County, Tennessee, even
[36:04] recommended exhumation, reasoning that modern science
[36:08] might finally. Resolve the case, however,
[36:11] because the grave. Lies on National Park Service
[36:14] land. Federal permission was required.
[36:18] The Department of the Interior initially approved the
[36:20] exhumation in 2008, then reversed the decision in 2010.
[36:26] They cited concerns about disturbing the Pioneer Cemetery
[36:29] around the grave and a desire. To let.
[36:32] Lewis, rest in peace. To this day, the remains haven't
[36:36] been exhumed and the exact. Cause of Lewis's.
[36:39] Death remains unconfirmed More than two centuries later, the
[36:45] death of Meriwether Lewis remains an evocative mystery at
[36:49] the intersection of American history and true crime.
[36:53] On one hand, the. Evidence of Lewis.
[36:55] 'S inner demons presents a compelling case that this
[36:58] legendary. Explorer perhaps took that
[37:01] irrevocable act. In an extremely dark moment, on
[37:06] the other hand, the unresolved quirks of that October night
[37:11] leave lingering doubt. That foul.
[37:12] Play could have occurred. Perhaps one day the federal
[37:16] government will allow his remains to be exhumed.
[37:19] And maybe, just maybe, we'll see the end of this more than two
[37:23] centuries old mystery in our lifetimes.

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