# 两步之遥 A podcast by 麦当索非亚. 历史和文学是我们对抗虚无的方式。我们尝试洞察一切趋势背后的偶然性，探寻宏大叙事之下鲜活的个体人生。我们希望从具体的人出发，看见一整个时代。那些曾经塑造过往岁月的力量，至今仍在塑造和抚慰当下的我们。 Leo主讲历史，Sophia主讲文学；一人主讲，另一人发问。我们如今已经共同遇见了“穿越者”王莽、皇帝武曌、作家丁玲，讨论了吴越国的兴衰、汉初的无为而治。此外，我们也闲聊。聊伦敦新剧、唐传奇、洪承畴、春日里的魏晋哀乐、李静训背后的女性北朝隋唐史…… 站在两步之遥处，凝视历史与文学现场；也在历史与文学之中，看见和找到自己。 Feed: https://feed.xyzfm.space/tgxubyqgfkn3 ## Latest episodes - [EP60 倒插朱门：在明清当赘婿，能拿到“大结果”吗？](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/ecc3798cbd8e) (2026-09-29, 79 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6abba72e195d838e2aeba055/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/llnRlnDtwpkvAFe7bbxPckUocdCQ.m4a - [EP59 上官婉儿与武曌：从赏识，到背叛](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/ce05bd1c6100) (2026-09-26, 134 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6ab7dcd8e742e36efcbb7fb3/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/luPfaoRKrOyKhQLWxaDOnRToweXw.m4a - [EP58 像上官婉儿一样被没为官奴婢，会过一种什么样的生活？](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/d5af4db4aab3) (2026-09-08, 124 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6a9fbc46a0210c197dcf6770/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/luS5aU9eyWt6WPJCssH_N5h77dIj.m4a - [EP57 丁玲的出逃（下）：一个人的逃亡，一群人的接力](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/3cca722adaf6) (2026-08-29, 95 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6a9269b0f03e74ee6b019567/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lv7VH2L0Hvr3V65IyOqmOIiB8BvW.m4a - [EP56 丁玲的出逃（中）：魍魉世界，谁是朋友，谁是特务？](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/c8d94ca0ac1f) (2026-08-22, 181 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6a8988601352af56ff3a438c/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lsc5bzzoABr2cqGwDldlWHN-Oxbo.m4a - [EP53 日月当空：46小时，走完千古女帝武曌的一生](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/f9467f84229a) (2026-08-14, 2757 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6a7e9e5c36641f136d880d1c/media.xyzcdn.net/njWvUjZJ2ezwIr5P027insitztMX.m4a - [EP55 她们在故事的空白处，重新发明爱：和一位同人太太聊写作、女性与同人世界](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/8ee430415aec) (2026-08-11, 157 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6a7a055436641f136d862d1b/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lqD-5Fwt1ZtHqkMBRqAxIheus2vM.m4a - [EP54 武则天的绝唱：遗制、归葬乾陵与无字碑之谜](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/cc954b7237fd) (2026-08-05, 3 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6a736670ab3a91c24a1072f3/media.xyzcdn.net/FlTm7t7Q6LX-b2vODd5D4iChBHD7.m4a - [EP52 神龙谢幕（下）：从武曌，到武则天](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/6e57ed1c4bad) (2026-07-20, 192 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6a5e3c07a3fec224d5a09c28/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/ln_LL2mM4d6US5ksAuBz_GJqsBUV.m4a - [EP51 神龙谢幕（上）：猜疑猜疑的猜疑，猜疑链如何孕育一场政变？](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/b676fcf703f2) (2026-07-11, 158 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6a52698b1e32575f5eb4e2f5/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lqP1pRtmgoSuMC93gefhPjcL-e5D.m4a - [EP50 丁玲的出逃（上）：鲁迅写下悼诗时，她其实还活着](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/a7149ce907d5) (2026-07-05, 158 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6a4a605b2e335a35a80e6e4b/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lrxdqwzSsqQI7-rDdnIpuIU8VWVn.m4a - [EP49 武曌男宠篇（下）：女皇身边不养闲人](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/d5dd43e58d6a) (2026-06-11, 193 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6a2a723f3eedf1f4b26902f1/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/ltWiOSgLxf3XGpg1Qp2ccGx3aq_l.m4a - [EP48 四女来信，李静训背后的女性北朝隋唐史](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/e84e8b4e732d) (2026-05-31, 196 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6a1c70f2ac7bdb080c33c94b/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lpn4LIMa3Qic-LQdwRZYQYnBykZI.m4a - [EP47 武曌男宠篇（上）：佛陀、面首与太平公主复仇记](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/339f61a9e081) (2026-05-17, 164 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6a09da751b7bd5029552b954/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lrlEKkkX91i13eT0s5ch1ue2Dtv4.m4a - [EP46 恋爱是一个人的终极审美观的体现吗？](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/8cbf61ed213e) (2026-05-14, 157 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6a057e781b7bd50295230f95/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lqugoSboN2oZJ0bKI4twp6I7wVxa.m4a - [EP45 精密又敏锐：被忽视的“她”的大脑](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/2f1350d5a181) (2026-05-02, 79 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/69f47d81b0055b393cf44f9e/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lrA9c3PGaEumJ5bw5iRdhnXbdH77.m4a - [EP44 武曌：前任留下的大锅竟成了一生的污点？(下）](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/f4b7febde978) (2026-04-24, 173 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/69eb4b951e94ae692110949f/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lk34YLQofkP6cjZDsmMw7DjY6GNL.m4a - [EP43 如何面对狭隘极端的偏见？](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/24c87b560181) (2026-04-22, 63 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/69e8ddae1e94ae6921e9127e/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lmhTjsiUmtdMawX48higuOZRZd26.m4a - [EP42 武曌：前任留下的大锅竟成了一生的污点？（上）](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/60a0182d5d65) (2026-04-21, 86 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/69e7715a1d989496e72b6186/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lmFcpzGB_DiKg3chmQXIbFVXIaH-.m4a - [EP41 从兰亭到风乎舞雩：魏晋人如何安放春日的哀乐](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/486fe9080206) (2026-04-07, 67 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/69d4b309b977fb2c474b4b97/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/loT1llyOZ5l2LXcpOyGrrSV2WtZ0.m4a - [EP40 钱弘俶的一次海淘如何改变中国？](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/17232da5953a) (2026-03-25, 56 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/69c3af7c4a34541b1b020ca8/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lpNfh1YD56OjauaAZ6_M2p4fooCp.m4a - [EP39 神都大逃杀：武曌的继承人、鹰犬与神探](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/3c78e6265d97) (2026-03-17, 211 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/69b956edcaaea1fb3bc58642/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lsQT7RBl83jGctWgz3T8ueET2Bky.m4a - [EP38 武曌：当一个女人决定成为皇帝](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/506e88c3b0e6) (2026-03-08, 223 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/69ad7d0ac8cdeb38c2807bc0/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/llpNihsUQEMnrWGq4IVGzRzGPZkt.m4a - [EP37 丁玲：女人，要强壮、要愉快、要智力和胆识](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/c36f33b124fc) (2026-03-07, 67 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/69ac60395b2d0ed069d7223e/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lskc0-7DYONBpop-lpKzq_BNbvIL.m4a - [EP36 一百年前的文坛互喷：鲁迅、郭沫若、梁实秋都在吵什么？](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/dc0bba558e49) (2026-02-25, 158 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/699ea2f5de29766da9790e53/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lgtDwATz0eAJRHPdqepx1MWHlztC.m4a - [EP35 采樵斫尽杏园花：《太平年》中吴越的承继、留后与牙兵](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/2a7bfae9f492) (2026-02-14, 152 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6990a4edde29766da99b3c17/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lh4jFIE3xRV0Cb1P50CKGNdgQWea.m4a - [EP34 陌上花开：《太平年》中的吴越国是从哪来的？](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/b0b42d825889) (2026-02-03, 155 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/69813c43073030367ae143ea/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lrwc2IV4k9TBZv5JmbSkb0KPWj9k.m4a - [EP33 服美役、情感劳动与女性友谊：我们如何彼此照亮](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/1f92cd1af16e) (2026-01-30, 133 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/697c4d302fc7f49d09008ab7/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lgGeOI1VN2vvaqtqdnrUjsUJ2PQh.m4a - [EP32 废帝、平叛、诛相：李治死后，武曌在做什么？](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/e1dbf13a334c) (2026-01-17, 164 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/696bdd7a109824f9e10bea97/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lqHfVQ8zlJRi3L1zOd36xELlawcP.m4a - [EP31 被写成怪物的母亲：重审武曌与两位太子的悲剧](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/c46151a99149) (2026-01-12, 174 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/69652388e235ea65bc7fffe2/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lqGSFffz73c-MIE0-IVdBym-udef.m4a - [EP30 丁玲·沈从文·胡也频：当观念分野，我们还能做朋友吗？](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/866b29c15d90) (2026-01-05, 83 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/695bbdb9092c0a5872ff0e83/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lvbV8e_bP2p9WnGT6NuLfLpOIX9q.m4a - [EP29 武曌：下一站，天后](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/9fda3135e826) (2025-12-28, 193 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6951378814db1df9ef251354/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/ltyE76BxafVzoEgQMPjmcYZW28KO.m4a - [EP28 唐灭高丽：这场战争从我姥姥小时候就开始打](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/da5198e40af4) (2025-12-16, 118 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/69416a774c65abaff352c05d/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/li05bunab6HiJQnlmZumlclKXMo8.m4a - [EP27 唐朝人都看什么小说？](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/21f9745ae1e7) (2025-12-13, 124 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/693d96662a383da167f07901/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lgqcCB2rJ9Qcm93KO54OslajgBo5.m4a - [EP26 武曌：一个让皇后站上政治棋局的女人](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/a3f1c89e0f00) (2025-12-02, 162 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/692ee4044ef12f9fe9883c8e/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lrH0pLOUpkCw3evwzu_SWYCdaRx4.m4a - [EP25 三人行，可行吗？爱情、自由与亲密关系的实验](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/674d2ef82b42) (2025-11-29, 94 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/692ac532ba2292550f58d7c3/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lt7eoICH7Ud_hsYmmCBqchsfzn7a.m4a - [EP24 武曌与李治：一对共犯型情侣的斩草除根](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/9211a9137611) (2025-11-15, 125 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/69187cf1cbba038b42add1b6/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lrujEDGobGXKmJdSqLVjlIUfGRS2.m4a - [EP23 女性可以欲望吗？《莎菲女士的日记》的大胆与先锋](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/c897f52354a6) (2025-11-13, 41 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/6915d2156018cc2c98b180a4/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lu5-CGFG6XP7LkPOux_fdk534O9S.m4a - [EP22 洪承畴，究竟是不是康熙生父？](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/ed16c3b06a4e) (2025-11-06, 121 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/690cbd11d99642be96cd6145/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/loDPVWz4IeQFcKq1fTCOrEPvvqWr.m4a - [EP21 武曌升职记：一场打着恋爱脑旗号的政治斗争](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/8904239e8652) (2025-11-02, 148 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/690710ae48dbe0eb5601b4d8/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lqu_V83cMYiJHSFL8nNCHsHULul7.m4a - [EP20 民国爱情故事：谈不成恋爱，还能做朋友吗？](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/ec533ccf9c1c) (2025-10-30, 108 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/69021288871ec2094f5e6ce7/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lqmQiuliHl71dHc8fjzEha1ZIDAX.m4a - [EP19 武曌与李治：全员恶人中，真能有一朵白莲花吗？](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/8e17e6e70295) (2025-10-23, 117 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/68f9b1910156720321a61d1f/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lsa6lfzL_fu2uQR5Bl0d2zJn5Ose.m4a - [EP18 播客，一场暂时逃离生活现场的短途旅行](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/719b6a9f3023) (2025-10-18, 61 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/68f2e55e456ffec65e519509/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lnLysSdKphsmQAm_H9J4Uy2SsrtB.m4a - [EP17 命运的推背感：有人被推上高处，有人被推下深渊——皇帝武曌（二）](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/a9891e5d1713) (2025-10-08, 81 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/68e60dc28e321a0d6f4a80a6/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lsPACuysgsJwMFNM4xACmIZGJpO5.m4a - [EP16 人要走出多少路才能成为自己——不是丁玲奶奶，而是丁玲姐姐（三）](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/35cb83ce497b) (2025-10-04, 86 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/68e10a1c8e321a0d6fe5652c/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/ll_A6D0l-JkxAXAeSkhphDQ1YP6T.m4a - [EP15 想当皇帝，需要什么样的家庭条件——皇帝武曌（一）](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/ce252ea7b022) (2025-09-20, 92 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/68cf0840a56ca3e0c46eedfc/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lqb2PrDLzWd7FtWpliEBWMvEtM0U.m4a - [EP14 创伤之后，人究竟是如何站起来的？——不是丁玲奶奶，而是丁玲姐姐（二）](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/23958ea58c63) (2025-09-10, 61 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/68b7701197178f08eefc37f2/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lt4kdVltRy3smcjPfgwvAiRgwZ_z.m4a - [EP13 王莽，江湖再见！——关于“穿越者”王莽的一切（九）](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/d46fc11955a0) (2025-09-05, 135 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/68bb60fa5faf3686593ee2d4/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lly7fzc3ra1K5BnHfrdx14D0cU5s.m4a - [EP12 女性主义的时代，我们要回望丁玲——不是丁玲奶奶，而是丁玲姐姐（一）](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/86c58bacbcff) (2025-09-02, 63 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/68b761af5faf368659bb24f7/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/lkXhuA74bbRcbrQpUTjarF7S8je3.m4a - [EP11 汉初，一个全身心致力于反内卷的时代——汉武帝和他的文臣们（一）](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1813894143/c209a1a7b9bf) (2025-08-28, 68 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/68af97b45faf368659c0ed74/media.xyzcdn.net/681670d2f94e3398ac6a2841/liTELz6Jp0Y7mCmphWH3SRwS76F6.m4a Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. 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