# Michael Hayes

An episode of [What's Your Story? with Steph McMahon](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1809157423), 23 Oct 2026, 1 h 47 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/mgln.ai/e/441/claritaspod.com/measure/prfx.byspotify.com/e/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/cf95adde-81d9-4413-ba41-b4b300f0d054/8f35dfb8-9be5-4fbd-b5cc-b4ec000ddedd/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=d41f33e1-1211-467b-a289-b4b300f0d06a

Michael Hayes sits down with Steph McMahon to talk about surviving wrestling riots with The Fabulous Freebirds, transitioning to a backstage career and sobriety. A WWE and Fanatics Original Production. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:01] Speaker 1: You.
[0:02] Speaker 2: The world's most deadly and effective secret agent. You're going
[0:05] Speaker 2: to protect your daughter by becoming her nanny.
[0:08] Speaker 3: Dad?
[0:10] Speaker 2: Is that you?
[0:11] Speaker 3: You snuck off and left me on your dirty little futon.
[0:14] Speaker 2: You don't get to just show up.
[0:15] Speaker 4: And be her dad.
[0:16] Speaker 2: I have way bigger concerns.
[0:18] Speaker 4: Like what? Like me!
[0:26] Speaker 2: Raymond Strauss is coming for your daughter.
[0:31] Speaker 4: So what do I do?
[0:32] Speaker 2: I've got an idea.
[0:32] Speaker 4: Follow me. Now. Give me the girl! You want me
[0:41] Speaker 4: to believe that you don't know who's protecting you? Who
[0:44] Speaker 4: are you talking about?
[0:45] Speaker 3: You're about to get your head smashed.
[0:57] Speaker 4: Do you know who that is? I'm Adam Hawke. Kill Brodies!
[1:02] Speaker 4: Avenge me!
[1:07] Speaker 1: And so then I met him in Toronto, and we
[1:10] Speaker 1: went to talk, and I think this is the infamous
[1:12] Speaker 1: meeting where I fell asleep.
[1:16] Speaker 4: Wait, wait, wait.
[1:17] Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about this.
[1:22] Speaker 4: And I come to the meeting with a beer. Now,
[1:25] Speaker 4: it's after the show... It's late.
[1:28] Speaker 2: But this is the first time you're meeting with him
[1:31] Speaker 2: after bailing?
[1:32] Speaker 4: Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
[1:35] Speaker 2: Okay.
[1:35] Speaker 4: Yeah. It's a free bird way of doing business.
[1:38] Speaker 2: And you went back because you felt like you were
[1:40] Speaker 2: being unprofessional.
[1:46] Speaker 4: Okay. Oh, what's your story? Don't you dare be sour.
[1:56] Speaker 5: Clap for Stephanie and feel the power.
[2:07] Speaker 2: Welcome to What's Your Story with Steph McMahon, a WWE
[2:10] Speaker 2: and Fanatics original production.
[2:13] Speaker 4: I passed two years last Thursday.
[2:15] Speaker 2: You're kidding.
[2:16] Speaker 4: No.
[2:17] Speaker 2: Congratulations. That is huge. That's amazing.
[2:20] Speaker 4: Thank you. That's huge. I did a ton of cocaine
[2:23] Speaker 4: that night. But no drinking. But no drinking.
[2:31] Speaker 2: No, that is amazing.
[2:34] Speaker 4: For me, it really is. It is. It really, really is.
[2:37] Speaker 2: Because you've been drinking since how old?
[2:40] Speaker 1: Probably 11 or 12, but consistently 14, 15.
[2:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a long time. Yeah.
[2:50] Speaker 4: Drinking, everything. Yeah.
[2:54] Speaker 2: But how did you start drinking at 11 or 12?
[2:56] Speaker 1: Well, I was older for my age. Like when I
[2:59] Speaker 1: was 14, I could go get beer.
[3:02] Speaker 4: Oh, yeah? Yeah. I could, nobody ever, yep. It's the 70s.
[3:06] Speaker 4: Nobody gave a crap about anything.
[3:09] Speaker 2: But 11 or 12.
[3:11] Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a little much.
[3:13] Speaker 2: It's a little early.
[3:14] Speaker 4: I always wanted to grow up fast. And I did.
[3:18] Speaker 2: Yeah, you're successful. But what was the environment that you
[3:27] Speaker 2: grew up in?
[3:29] Speaker 4: Well....
[3:32] Speaker 2: And let me just start off by saying... You know,
[3:34] Speaker 2: my pod is like a little bit different, right? It's
[3:37] Speaker 2: more about you and your life and lessons you've learned and,
[3:41] Speaker 2: you know, like the the the personal stuff.
[3:45] Speaker 4: Right.
[3:45] Speaker 2: You know, less less the character, although also all of
[3:49] Speaker 2: the incredible accomplishments.
[3:51] Speaker 1: Yeah, I unfortunately and fortunately, I think my character and
[3:56] Speaker 1: person aren't far away from each other. And that goes
[4:01] Speaker 1: back to when I got into the business and how
[4:04] Speaker 1: you were instructed to behave.
[4:08] Speaker 4: Right. And you had to live your gimmick.
[4:11] Speaker 2: That's right.
[4:12] Speaker 4: Had to live the gimmick. So if you were going
[4:14] Speaker 4: to be a wild rock and roller.
[4:16] Speaker 2: You better be a wild rock and roller.
[4:18] Speaker 4: Sign me up.
[4:19] Speaker 2: And it would fit right in.
[4:21] Speaker 4: Yeah, it wasn't hard.
[4:21] Speaker 2: But what about before that?
[4:23] Speaker 4: Huh?
[4:23] Speaker 2: What about before that? Who was Michael Hayes as a
[4:27] Speaker 2: little kid?
[4:27] Speaker 4: When Michael Hayes was a little kid, he grew up
[4:30] Speaker 4: with a single mother. I never knew my father.
[4:35] Speaker 2: And is it true he passed?
[4:36] Speaker 4: Yeah, when I was like two years old.
[4:38] Speaker 2: And was he a pilot?
[4:40] Speaker 4: No, that was my brother's father. He was a pilot for.
[4:43] Speaker 1: The Navy and his plane blew up off the coast
[4:48] Speaker 1: of Maryland on my brother's first birthday.
[4:51] Speaker 4: Damn. But My father, I never met him. Well, I
[4:55] Speaker 4: heard he came to see me once.
[4:56] Speaker 1: And that's okay because I had a foster family too,
[5:01] Speaker 1: so I had two moms. Yeah.
[5:02] Speaker 4: And that was cool. But, you know, my mom had
[5:06] Speaker 4: to struggle to support us.
[5:09] Speaker 2: And it was just you and your brother?
[5:12] Speaker 4: It was just me and my brother. Now, when I
[5:14] Speaker 4: was with my foster family— It was a lot different.
[5:19] Speaker 2: And you're being literal foster family? You were in the system?
[5:21] Speaker 2: Or you just mean you had like a good.
[5:24] Speaker 1: My mother would take me to the babysitter all the
[5:27] Speaker 1: time and I was getting bronchitis like every other month.
[5:30] Speaker 1: And the priest told her, you got to put them somewhere.
[5:34] Speaker 1: She didn't want to let me go. So this was
[5:36] Speaker 1: more of a place where they would take you for
[5:38] Speaker 1: the week and then she'd come get me on the weekend.
[5:42] Speaker 1: And she was just 20 or 21 herself. So They
[5:46] Speaker 1: took her in too. She was kind of like your
[5:47] Speaker 1: daughter too. And I still have extremely close ties with
[5:51] Speaker 1: them today. Um, but it was so different to have
[5:55] Speaker 1: a family and security and people all around.
[5:59] Speaker 4: Cause when it was just me and her for, she
[6:01] Speaker 4: was for eight years, it was just me and her.
[6:04] Speaker 2: And are you eight years older than your brother?
[6:06] Speaker 3: I am.
[6:07] Speaker 4: Okay. Okay.
[6:08] Speaker 5: I am.
[6:09] Speaker 4: And I'm going to see, uh, see him soon, uh,
[6:13] Speaker 4: in New Orleans.
[6:14] Speaker 1: Um, But, yeah, then she met what she thought was
[6:19] Speaker 1: the love of her life and my brother's father, and
[6:21] Speaker 1: he was a lieutenant commander in the Navy. He got
[6:25] Speaker 1: transferred to Pensacola Naval Air Station Base, and we moved
[6:29] Speaker 1: down there, and that's where I grew up.
[6:30] Speaker 4: Until I hit the road.
[6:33] Speaker 1: I do look at all these things now that that
[6:38] Speaker 1: was just all planned.
[6:39] Speaker 4: Yeah. That was just all.
[6:41] Speaker 1: I'd have never gotten wrestling if I'd have stayed up
[6:43] Speaker 1: in Philadelphia where I was born. I would have been
[6:46] Speaker 1: in drugs or something worse, a lot worse. I just
[6:52] Speaker 1: know that. I didn't realize this years ago.
[6:55] Speaker 4: Then I go, wait a minute. I am not that lucky.
[7:01] Speaker 4: There's just no way that I'm that lucky. I think
[7:07] Speaker 4: that kind of belief helps me every day.
[7:10] Speaker 2: So you talked about this a little bit on Taker's podcast.
[7:14] Speaker 2: And have you found faith? Or were you always a
[7:20] Speaker 2: religious person? Or is it, you know— Well, I.
[7:23] Speaker 4: Don't think I'm the poster child for God at all.
[7:27] Speaker 2: I don't think there is a poster child. I think
[7:29] Speaker 2: God exists in all of us.
[7:31] Speaker 4: And I believe that, too.
[7:32] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[7:34] Speaker 4: I always believed in God very strongly.
[7:37] Speaker 1: My actions may have not— gave you that impression, but,
[7:45] Speaker 1: you know, I believe everything happens for a reason, and
[7:48] Speaker 1: I was born to be a wrestler and then be
[7:51] Speaker 1: in the wrestling business. There's no ends or for buts
[7:54] Speaker 1: about that, and I'm very proud about that.
[7:57] Speaker 4: As you should be.
[8:00] Speaker 1: And it's been a long, some would say arduous, but
[8:04] Speaker 1: I don't think so.
[8:05] Speaker 4: I think it's been fun.
[8:09] Speaker 1: You know, the question always comes up because I ask
[8:11] Speaker 1: myself every day, Would you change anything? What if you
[8:14] Speaker 1: were more of the business person you are today, back
[8:17] Speaker 1: in the day with Terry and Buddy, would the free
[8:20] Speaker 1: birds have flown even higher?
[8:23] Speaker 4: And I always come back the same answer, no. Not
[8:27] Speaker 4: at that time.
[8:27] Speaker 2: Right.
[8:28] Speaker 4: It wasn't the time. First of all, me trying to
[8:31] Speaker 4: tell Buddy and Terry, hey, listen, we're just going to
[8:33] Speaker 4: stop all this stuff. Okay? I know it's working. We're
[8:36] Speaker 4: having fun selling out everywhere. But we're going to stop that.
[8:39] Speaker 4: Let's stop having fun and be business. That would have
[8:43] Speaker 4: never flown.
[8:44] Speaker 2: But the business was so different, too.
[8:46] Speaker 4: Oh, my God.
[8:46] Speaker 2: I mean, very different times.
[8:48] Speaker 4: Very different. I mean, we have.
[8:53] Speaker 1: I would consider good people that break into wrestling now.
[8:56] Speaker 1: When I broke into wrestling, there were not a lot
[8:58] Speaker 1: of good people in there. I'm not saying there weren't any.
[9:01] Speaker 1: But you had to be pretty seedy to make it.
[9:04] Speaker 1: You had to have some scrupulous histories that you could
[9:12] Speaker 1: pull from.
[9:13] Speaker 2: And why? Why do you think it was that way?
[9:16] Speaker 4: It was a very close fraternity. It was.
[9:20] Speaker 1: I mean, you were threatened with your life at times
[9:22] Speaker 1: if you broke kayfabe. And it was just the good
[9:28] Speaker 1: old boys kept it to themselves. I mean, that's why
[9:32] Speaker 1: when I started putting up the ring at 15 and
[9:34] Speaker 1: 16 and I would go to concerts and I'd see
[9:38] Speaker 1: some of the same people that I saw at wrestling.
[9:40] Speaker 4: And I'd go, there's some marriage here.
[9:43] Speaker 1: And I go, these guys don't know they need to
[9:45] Speaker 1: get the young people here because they didn't care about that. And,
[9:49] Speaker 1: you know, that's why I was so headstrong about music
[9:56] Speaker 1: and bringing rock and roll into wrestling. And I still
[10:00] Speaker 1: feel that music is a vital, integral part of our industry.
[10:04] Speaker 2: It is. Music is emotion.
[10:05] Speaker 4: I still want me a character. That is a crooner,
[10:09] Speaker 4: like a soul R & B guy that I know
[10:13] Speaker 4: they'll hate at the beginning, right? Right. But eventually he'll
[10:16] Speaker 4: win over the girls.
[10:17] Speaker 2: But someone who actually is a really good.
[10:20] Speaker 4: That can sing. Yeah. Because we've had some, you know. No,
[10:24] Speaker 4: you'd have to be able to sing and wrestle. Yeah. Which, hey,
[10:28] Speaker 4: that's not a lie. Who knows if I can find
[10:29] Speaker 4: that person.
[10:30] Speaker 2: You know my dog is a crooner.
[10:33] Speaker 4: Is he?
[10:33] Speaker 2: Oh, my God. He literally is.
[10:35] Speaker 4: Gus. Gus?
[10:36] Speaker 2: 200-pound English Mastiff crooner.
[10:38] Speaker 4: Okay.
[10:39] Speaker 2: He sings.
[10:40] Speaker 4: Now, out of his voice or out of his back end? Well,
[10:43] Speaker 4: it's funny.
[10:44] Speaker 2: He thinks farts, like whenever there's a fart in the house,
[10:50] Speaker 2: he jumps. He really does.
[10:52] Speaker 4: Oh, like he tries to blame somebody else? Who did that?
[10:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, he looks around.
[10:56] Speaker 4: I mean, it's funny.
[10:57] Speaker 2: It's really funny. But the national anthem comes on, like
[11:00] Speaker 2: if we're watching TV or, you know, just all of
[11:03] Speaker 2: a sudden he's, And it sounds like a dying cow.
[11:09] Speaker 4: But it's so sweet.
[11:09] Speaker 2: It really does. He's trying. But it's so cute. And
[11:12] Speaker 2: then he gets loud, and his eyes bug all out,
[11:16] Speaker 2: and he comes to you like he's, like, I don't
[11:18] Speaker 2: know if he's in pain or he wants praise.
[11:21] Speaker 4: Or whatever it is. Does he sing with Vaughn? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
[11:23] Speaker 2: So Vaughn will be playing piano and singing, and he
[11:26] Speaker 2: is right.
[11:26] Speaker 4: Next to her just laughing. Keeping time in tune? Well, no. No.
[11:36] Speaker 2: But I digress.
[11:37] Speaker 4: No. I was wrestling Flair in the Checker Dome. Saying, Fantasia,
[11:44] Speaker 4: come here. We got to heal the house tonight, baby.
[11:48] Speaker 1: I want you to know that. You and Flair's on top.
[11:51] Speaker 1: Last time we were here, I was on top of Rick.
[11:53] Speaker 1: We had both sides of the building opened up.
[11:57] Speaker 4: Thanks, Dusty. Appreciate that. Right? Build me up. Got a
[12:04] Speaker 4: hell of an advance.
[12:05] Speaker 1: Right.
[12:06] Speaker 4: Good house. Nothing like last time. And that's the way
[12:11] Speaker 4: the business was. Sure. You know, it made it fun.
[12:15] Speaker 2: Yeah. Colorful characters is how I would position it.
[12:20] Speaker 4: I can't think of a straight character that was back then.
[12:24] Speaker 1: Even the guys that took the jackets were, there was
[12:27] Speaker 1: some story about them.
[12:28] Speaker 4: Right. You know what I mean?
[12:29] Speaker 1: And the referees and it was, but it was definitely
[12:33] Speaker 1: a strong fraternity because you were, it was us against them.
[12:38] Speaker 4: Sure. That was basically, you know.
[12:40] Speaker 2: And to become one of them was really hard.
[12:43] Speaker 4: To become a professional wrestler.
[12:45] Speaker 2: A successful professional wrestler.
[12:47] Speaker 4: Well, just to get in was a big deal to
[12:49] Speaker 4: me because I had no chance of making it. I
[12:52] Speaker 4: was the last person you'd think would succeed. Why? No family,
[12:56] Speaker 4: no ties.
[13:01] Speaker 2: Wouldn't you be exactly the perfect person because of that?
[13:05] Speaker 4: Not then. Not then. I knew that I was going
[13:09] Speaker 4: to have struggles. um, to make it. Cause I knew
[13:12] Speaker 4: I didn't just want to be in. I wanted to
[13:14] Speaker 4: make it.
[13:16] Speaker 1: Um, and then I found Terry Gordy and my prayers
[13:21] Speaker 1: were answered. Um, Terry was 16.
[13:25] Speaker 4: I was 18.
[13:25] Speaker 1: He was definitely going to make it because of his talent.
[13:30] Speaker 1: Couldn't cut a promo to save his life. Sucked his
[13:36] Speaker 1: words later on became one of the best promos ever. Um,
[13:40] Speaker 1: But we were just, you know, when you talk about
[13:42] Speaker 1: that us against them mentality, I told him, I said,
[13:45] Speaker 1: you're going to make it. I said, but I'm going
[13:47] Speaker 1: to make it too. And I'm going to tell you something.
[13:51] Speaker 1: We get together, we'll make it a lot quicker.
[13:54] Speaker 4: And we did.
[13:55] Speaker 2: So tell us about it.
[13:58] Speaker 1: Well, we hit it off because we were teenagers in
[14:02] Speaker 1: a man's business. Frankie Cain was the booker there.
[14:07] Speaker 4: It was called... It was Mississippi wrestling.
[14:12] Speaker 1: It was opposition to Watts because the promoter in Mississippi
[14:17] Speaker 1: for Watts and him got in an argument about his
[14:20] Speaker 1: son being.
[14:21] Speaker 4: High at the show.
[14:25] Speaker 1: So the father was an old-time wrestler that was very
[14:29] Speaker 1: well-known in Mississippi and a big politician locally.
[14:32] Speaker 2: Okay. Odd how it goes hand-in-hand.
[14:35] Speaker 4: Yeah. You think?
[14:38] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[14:39] Speaker 1: But, um, so they were running opposition to watch and
[14:42] Speaker 1: it opened up some jobs for a lot of us
[14:44] Speaker 1: that were working continental, which was like the mobile, uh,
[14:48] Speaker 1: Pensacola area. And so I started going over there and
[14:54] Speaker 1: one day somebody didn't show up and they let me
[14:57] Speaker 1: do an interview to do a match. And he went, Oh,
[15:00] Speaker 1: that boy can talk.
[15:02] Speaker 4: And that was, and I.
[15:03] Speaker 2: Just did a real promoter did or Terry did.
[15:05] Speaker 4: No, no, no. The, um, The booker there, Franklin Cain.
[15:09] Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
[15:09] Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. And he goes, man, he can talk.
[15:11] Speaker 1: And all I did was a straight baby face promo,
[15:13] Speaker 1: but I just– You had– Well, I just used some
[15:17] Speaker 1: good knowledge and stuff that I had heard before, and
[15:20] Speaker 1: it just made sense.
[15:22] Speaker 4: But my heart.
[15:23] Speaker 1: Was being a heel because I'm used to people hating me.
[15:28] Speaker 1: I thrive on people not liking me.
[15:30] Speaker 3: Always?
[15:31] Speaker 2: Always.
[15:31] Speaker 4: Always.
[15:32] Speaker 2: Even when you were a little kid?
[15:34] Speaker 4: Even when I was a kid. Really? Yeah. Why? I
[15:36] Speaker 4: don't know.
[15:38] Speaker 1: I certainly wasn't when I was little. I certainly wasn't
[15:41] Speaker 1: as cocky as I grew into being. I just always,
[15:45] Speaker 1: you know, like in the second grade, I'd fight with
[15:47] Speaker 1: a fifth grader. I mean, I just, I just, well, and,
[15:52] Speaker 1: you know, in high school, I was different.
[15:53] Speaker 4: I like, I like, he's the guy that likes wrestling. Right.
[15:57] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[15:57] Speaker 4: And it really was. It was like, ugh, you know,
[15:59] Speaker 4: and I'd be over at the smoking tree.
[16:01] Speaker 1: And, you know, I just was not the guy that
[16:04] Speaker 1: got invited to stuff and stuff.
[16:06] Speaker 4: And I was fine with that.
[16:07] Speaker 2: I would think you were the life at the party.
[16:08] Speaker 2: That's what I'm thinking.
[16:10] Speaker 4: Oh, I am.
[16:11] Speaker 2: Right?
[16:11] Speaker 4: I was if I was invited to the party. Right.
[16:14] Speaker 1: But I didn't really care about being invited to the
[16:17] Speaker 1: party because I'd have my own fucking party. Yeah.
[16:19] Speaker 4: Yeah. You know? And I liked my party. Your party
[16:22] Speaker 4: was great.
[16:22] Speaker 2: And it liked me.
[16:24] Speaker 4: It worked for you. Yeah. I just never... fit with
[16:27] Speaker 4: clicks or anything like that it wasn't going to work
[16:31] Speaker 4: um and then.
[16:33] Speaker 1: Um robert gibson from the rock and roll express well
[16:38] Speaker 1: let me back up so hollywood john tatum's him and
[16:42] Speaker 1: i were became friends and he turned me on to
[16:44] Speaker 1: wrestling you know because he said one day i do
[16:47] Speaker 1: you see i forget some wrestler i didn't know what
[16:50] Speaker 1: he's talking about he's saturday night wrestling 10 o'clock channel
[16:54] Speaker 1: three I started watching.
[16:55] Speaker 4: I was hooked from the get-go.
[16:58] Speaker 1: But we met a wrestler because his dad was like
[17:01] Speaker 1: a mayor pro tem, really high in politics. So we'd
[17:04] Speaker 1: get in free to the matches. And so we were
[17:08] Speaker 1: hanging around the back curtain where the guys would peek
[17:10] Speaker 1: out and watch. And this one guy named Ron Starr said,
[17:13] Speaker 1: you know, can you guys know where I can get
[17:16] Speaker 1: some pot?
[17:17] Speaker 4: Sure do. Sure do.
[17:19] Speaker 2: Did you have a fanny pack then?
[17:21] Speaker 4: No. That's because I hadn't made them yet.
[17:27] Speaker 1: But we said yes, and I befriended him.
[17:31] Speaker 4: He befriended me.
[17:32] Speaker 1: And because of that connection, Robert started paying more attention
[17:38] Speaker 1: to me, and we started becoming friends. And he asked
[17:41] Speaker 1: me one day, we were at the bowling alley, Because
[17:44] Speaker 1: we would always bowl for money, play pool for money, whatever.
[17:48] Speaker 4: Hustle. Huh? Hustle. Yeah. Yeah. Had some good nights.
[17:54] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[17:56] Speaker 1: And had horrible nights where you lost everything. Leave at 3, 4.
[18:00] Speaker 4: In the morning. But anyway, he asked me to say, hey,
[18:04] Speaker 4: I got an opening on the TV ring crew. Would
[18:07] Speaker 4: you like to be on it? I thought I died
[18:08] Speaker 4: and went to heaven. Yeah. Yeah. And that was my
[18:11] Speaker 4: foot in the door. Wow.
[18:13] Speaker 1: And then I just kept pushing and pushing and shoving
[18:16] Speaker 1: and then got to the Mississippi thing and Terry. And
[18:20] Speaker 1: I talked Frankie into turning me heel when I came back.
[18:23] Speaker 1: Affa and Sika, who had a lot to do with
[18:26] Speaker 1: my upbringing, they took me to Germany. When I came back,
[18:31] Speaker 1: I said, I want to turn Terry heel. And he
[18:33] Speaker 1: was the 16-year-old.
[18:35] Speaker 4: Prodigy, good old boy.
[18:37] Speaker 2: Right.
[18:38] Speaker 4: No, you can't turn him heel. Frankie, he's been your
[18:41] Speaker 4: baby face for three years. Let me do this.
[18:44] Speaker 1: And we turned and we started working and it was
[18:47] Speaker 1: really going good. And you know those old clickers that
[18:50] Speaker 1: you used to have when you go grocery shopping? Well,
[18:53] Speaker 1: I'd always be clicking, looking at the people coming in.
[18:57] Speaker 4: I'm going to get the right fucking house.
[19:01] Speaker 1: And so he came around, and the house was really up,
[19:04] Speaker 1: and he gave us $ 40, the minimum.
[19:06] Speaker 4: Wow.
[19:06] Speaker 1: And I said, Gil, I think we deserve more. And
[19:10] Speaker 1: I think because they had given me a break to
[19:13] Speaker 1: start me out, they really– took that the wrong way.
[19:17] Speaker 4: Like, who are you to question us? Right.
[19:20] Speaker 2: Or to ask for more money.
[19:22] Speaker 4: Yeah. And he goes, well, if you don't like it, leave.
[19:26] Speaker 1: And that was my punk card right there in the
[19:27] Speaker 1: dressing room in front of everybody. I felt I had
[19:31] Speaker 1: no choice and I said, all right, I'm out. So
[19:34] Speaker 1: I went to Terry's car and Terry just had a
[19:37] Speaker 1: baby on the way, 16 years old, just got married.
[19:43] Speaker 4: A nice little guarantee for 1978. Terry was 16. Yes.
[19:50] Speaker 2: Okay.
[19:50] Speaker 4: I was 18. All right. Okay. But I'm just saying.
[19:53] Speaker 2: But he has a baby on the way.
[19:55] Speaker 4: He's got a baby on the way. He's got a guarantee.
[19:57] Speaker 1: Okay.
[19:58] Speaker 4: Okay. It's $ 300 at that time. That was a lot
[20:00] Speaker 4: of money. Yeah.
[20:01] Speaker 1: And his wife was from Mississippi and her family who
[20:05] Speaker 1: he's living with. So it made no sense for him
[20:07] Speaker 1: to leave.
[20:08] Speaker 3: Right.
[20:09] Speaker 1: So I went out in his car and waited, and
[20:11] Speaker 1: it was like forever. And I know it's, you know, okay,
[20:17] Speaker 1: he's got to stay. And he came out, closed the door,
[20:21] Speaker 1: looked at me, said, all right, Michael, where are we going?
[20:24] Speaker 4: I told him if they didn't want you, they didn't
[20:26] Speaker 4: have me.
[20:27] Speaker 2: Wow.
[20:29] Speaker 4: I've never had anybody do that for me.
[20:31] Speaker 2: That's rare.
[20:32] Speaker 4: Never.
[20:33] Speaker 2: That's very rare.
[20:34] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[20:35] Speaker 2: That's a true brother.
[20:36] Speaker 4: That was a true brother. Yeah. Yeah.
[20:39] Speaker 1: And then, you know, we went to Tennessee. We broke
[20:42] Speaker 1: out the Freebird gimmick in Memphis. That didn't last long
[20:46] Speaker 1: because Lawler turned on Dundee the night we broke out
[20:50] Speaker 1: the music. I could see him standing in the ring
[20:52] Speaker 1: with his arms folded. You know, Jerry, when he gets mad.
[20:55] Speaker 1: Because the first night we played the music, the crowd
[20:58] Speaker 1: was standing.
[20:58] Speaker 4: We're heels. Right, yeah. You know, I just got it. Sure.
[21:02] Speaker 4: It worked. I was going, yes! And I'm like, hmm.
[21:07] Speaker 4: Next TV, he turns against his partner. So then we
[21:12] Speaker 4: went to Watts.
[21:13] Speaker 1: And that's where we did the junkyard dog thing. Watts,
[21:18] Speaker 1: as soon as we walked into TV, said, hey, you
[21:20] Speaker 1: got that record?
[21:20] Speaker 4: And I said, yeah. I said, why? He said, well,
[21:24] Speaker 4: I want to make a cart and put it on TV.
[21:27] Speaker 4: I'd never thought of that.
[21:28] Speaker 2: But now why do you– so here you are– With
[21:32] Speaker 2: the vision of bringing rock and roll, of bringing the youth,
[21:37] Speaker 2: but you also were asking, I heard you say in
[21:39] Speaker 2: a different interview about, you know, the lighting rig and
[21:43] Speaker 2: the sound rig and how are you going to play this?
[21:45] Speaker 2: And how did you know even the production aspect of
[21:50] Speaker 2: the business even before? To know how to play the music.
[21:53] Speaker 1: Well, there wasn't that much production, so it didn't take
[21:56] Speaker 1: an Einstein or somebody that, you know, if I figured
[22:00] Speaker 1: it out.
[22:00] Speaker 2: But I guess my point is you always had a
[22:05] Speaker 2: bigger vision.
[22:07] Speaker 1: I always knew that this industry was going to get
[22:10] Speaker 1: huge and go national and then go global. I always
[22:15] Speaker 1: knew it would get big if.
[22:18] Speaker 1: Brought in the right way. And, and, and if it
[22:21] Speaker 1: catered to young kids, you know, you already had the
[22:24] Speaker 1: old people. You didn't need to keep getting them. They
[22:26] Speaker 1: were going to come anyway. Um, But that particular conversation was,
[22:31] Speaker 1: I was just telling the guy, I said, when you
[22:34] Speaker 1: rent the building, do you get sound system?
[22:36] Speaker 4: Right.
[22:37] Speaker 2: But even just to ask the business deal.
[22:38] Speaker 4: Yeah, do you have the spotlights? Right. Because I wanted
[22:40] Speaker 4: the spotlights to twirl around. I didn't want us to
[22:42] Speaker 4: come out the bad guy, the good guy dressing room.
[22:44] Speaker 3: Right.
[22:44] Speaker 4: We wanted to come out our own dressing room. Right.
[22:46] Speaker 2: Because you know how to make a star.
[22:48] Speaker 4: Yeah. That was the idea. Yeah.
[22:50] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[22:53] Speaker 4: You know, he asked me, he said, are you on
[22:54] Speaker 4: the marijuana pills? This is like 78. And I go, no,
[23:01] Speaker 4: but if you find any. Because back then you didn't
[23:06] Speaker 4: have marijuana pills.
[23:09] Speaker 1: But it was just– It was really pulling teeth to
[23:12] Speaker 1: get people to do it.
[23:13] Speaker 4: Now, once we did it and everybody was like, holy shit,
[23:17] Speaker 4: that works. Then everybody played music.
[23:19] Speaker 2: Then everybody was doing it. Yeah.
[23:21] Speaker 1: And then, of course, you know, Vince took it to the.
[23:24] Speaker 1: to where it needed to be and all the production necessary.
[23:27] Speaker 4: Like I said, production was low because all you did
[23:30] Speaker 4: was take a microphone and put it to a cassette player.
[23:33] Speaker 4: That was it. And a funny story about that is
[23:36] Speaker 4: the first time we played Freebird, we had the album.
[23:39] Speaker 2: Oh, really?
[23:40] Speaker 4: Okay. An LP. Yeah, yeah.
[23:43] Speaker 1: And so you have to put it on the last one, right?
[23:46] Speaker 1: And so they brought the guy. He's the head janitor.
[23:48] Speaker 4: I forget his name. Bless his heart. He had to
[23:52] Speaker 4: have been– 70 years old, and he had the shakes already. Oh, no.
[23:57] Speaker 4: He's going to play Tuesdays Gone. He's going to put
[24:00] Speaker 4: the hit on the record. To his credit, man, he
[24:03] Speaker 4: nailed it. He did. He did. He nailed it.
[24:05] Speaker 2: All right.
[24:06] Speaker 1: But then it became, you know, the cassette players. And
[24:09] Speaker 1: it was very backwards at first for people playing their music.
[24:12] Speaker 1: But it worked and it gave people character.
[24:15] Speaker 4: Yeah. And it made people relate. Right.
[24:18] Speaker 2: Exactly.
[24:18] Speaker 4: That's it.
[24:19] Speaker 1: You know, you've got to have people out on that
[24:21] Speaker 1: screen that people can relate to or have similarities or,
[24:26] Speaker 1: you know, similar personality traits.
[24:29] Speaker 4: Yeah. Just something. Yeah, I get that. Yeah.
[24:32] Speaker 2: So talk more about that because I don't know that–
[24:36] Speaker 2: everybody talks about storytelling and character development and that kind
[24:39] Speaker 2: of thing. But why does that matter? Well– Why does
[24:44] Speaker 2: relating to something matter?
[24:48] Speaker 1: Well, I think your father realized it a long time
[24:50] Speaker 1: ago that just two men in tights might entice some
[24:54] Speaker 1: women for a little while.
[24:56] Speaker 2: And some men.
[24:56] Speaker 4: And some men now. But– Nevertheless, that's, you.
[25:02] Speaker 1: Know, just two wrestlers is not going to get it
[25:04] Speaker 1: for a long period of time. You have to have characters.
[25:09] Speaker 1: And that's why, you know, characters, you know, relating to characters.
[25:17] Speaker 2: Because you have to be able to see yourself in
[25:19] Speaker 2: the situation.
[25:20] Speaker 4: Yes. You have to see yourself or who you'd like
[25:24] Speaker 4: to be. Right.
[25:25] Speaker 1: And I think that's more important because most people that
[25:28] Speaker 1: sit back want to be that person. But they don't
[25:31] Speaker 1: have it inside them to go to the lengths you
[25:33] Speaker 1: have to be to be that person or be that character.
[25:37] Speaker 4: And unfortunately, I feel it's that way sometimes with some
[25:42] Speaker 4: of our talent. Like they can all do the flips. Right.
[25:46] Speaker 2: Which is remarkable.
[25:48] Speaker 4: Oh, my God. It's amazing.
[25:50] Speaker 2: Their athleticism is off the chart.
[25:52] Speaker 4: But if you go.
[25:53] Speaker 1: Back and look at anybody that makes serious jack in
[25:56] Speaker 1: this business, whatever era, they could cut a promo. And
[26:02] Speaker 1: that is not the foremost thing on their agenda to
[26:06] Speaker 1: make it as a professional. And it's like, well, just
[26:10] Speaker 1: look at the statistics. Great worker, no promo, what, five years?
[26:16] Speaker 4: Maybe? Maybe? So-so worker, awesome promo, 15, 20 years, easy. Yeah, yeah.
[26:26] Speaker 4: That's how you relate to people.
[26:28] Speaker 2: Because you've got to be able to make them feel.
[26:31] Speaker 4: Yes. And before I forget, I want to tell you again,
[26:34] Speaker 4: I told you this. You so nailed your Hall of
[26:36] Speaker 4: Fame speech on the end. Here's why. I know that
[26:42] Speaker 4: I was a great talker and I knew how to
[26:44] Speaker 4: do that. Still can.
[26:47] Speaker 1: But I would have never thought to go in character
[26:51] Speaker 1: on the end. And fucking get away with it.
[26:55] Speaker 4: And you did. You went full.
[26:58] Speaker 1: On Stephanie McMahon and they bought it and went, and
[27:02] Speaker 1: I bought it too.
[27:04] Speaker 4: It was, it was excellent. Not just the performance, the concept.
[27:08] Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you.
[27:10] Speaker 4: Really good kid.
[27:11] Speaker 2: Thank you. I, um, I had a little help in
[27:15] Speaker 2: that idea. So I was talking to, actually it was,
[27:18] Speaker 2: I think it was Jackie who first said to me,
[27:20] Speaker 2: she's like, because I was like, what do I, you know,
[27:23] Speaker 2: your Hall of Fame speech, you could go on for hours.
[27:28] Speaker 2: And you know you're never going to be able to
[27:29] Speaker 2: thank everybody.
[27:30] Speaker 4: I think you probably, Jim, did. He tried.
[27:33] Speaker 2: He tried. But, you know, and I'm conscious of the
[27:37] Speaker 2: time and everything else. But Jackie said, you know, people
[27:42] Speaker 2: miss your character. And it was like a really... big
[27:49] Speaker 2: moment for me i was like yeah you know what
[27:50] Speaker 2: like that is the most fun character to play ever
[27:53] Speaker 2: i love that character i much prefer being a heel
[27:57] Speaker 2: and does it i've never really been loved myself you
[28:00] Speaker 2: know um can't imagine why but um so if and
[28:04] Speaker 2: then i was trying to figure out so then as
[28:06] Speaker 2: i was writing different versions of it i started with
[28:09] Speaker 2: that and i was i first had it in the
[28:12] Speaker 2: beginning and And then I had it in the middle,
[28:14] Speaker 2: and then I'm like, Steph, come on. You know this
[28:16] Speaker 2: better than anybody. You got to have your big finish.
[28:18] Speaker 4: Yes.
[28:19] Speaker 2: You know, this is your go home. So that's what
[28:22] Speaker 2: I wrote first.
[28:23] Speaker 4: That was good. That was great. It was so good.
[28:26] Speaker 1: It was fun.
[28:26] Speaker 2: It was fun. It was really fun. Like, everyone was like, yes,
[28:30] Speaker 2: just shit on us.
[28:31] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[28:32] Speaker 2: We accept.
[28:33] Speaker 4: We accept. Please. May I have more? Yes. Please call
[28:39] Speaker 4: me names.
[28:40] Speaker 2: You were such a big supporter of mine, Michael. Thank
[28:43] Speaker 2: you so much. It was, what an honor. I mean,
[28:47] Speaker 2: never imagined myself ever, ever there.
[28:50] Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you earned it. You earned it just having
[28:54] Speaker 4: to deal with me and Heyman in the 2000s. God almighty. Hey,
[28:59] Speaker 4: you're going to take over creative and we're going to
[29:02] Speaker 4: let some wrestling people in.
[29:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, but I– you guys– I was more comfortable around
[29:10] Speaker 2: the likes of you guys than anybody else because that's
[29:14] Speaker 2: the world I grew up in too.
[29:15] Speaker 4: Right.
[29:16] Speaker 2: You know, and– All of these amazing, colorful personalities. And
[29:22] Speaker 2: I got to know people, you know, in a different way.
[29:25] Speaker 2: And I was much more comfortable around my kind, you know,
[29:29] Speaker 2: than I was around the business types and everything else. Right.
[29:34] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[29:35] Speaker 2: I related more to you guys than to anybody. But, yeah,
[29:39] Speaker 2: managing you was a little tough. That was a different story. Boy.
[29:44] Speaker 2: And I'm so young and green, right? And you guys
[29:48] Speaker 2: are very savvy.
[29:49] Speaker 4: And I'm so old and wild. It was interesting.
[29:54] Speaker 2: Interesting personalities.
[29:55] Speaker 4: Poor Jill Clark having to do my makeup four days
[29:57] Speaker 4: a week. When I come in hungover.
[30:01] Speaker 2: Oh, boy. Shout out to Jill Clark, by the way.
[30:03] Speaker 5: Yes.
[30:03] Speaker 2: Shout out to Jill.
[30:05] Speaker 4: I love Jill Clark.
[30:06] Speaker 2: Yes. We talk a lot about iconic stories on this show.
[30:12] Speaker 2: And when it comes to sports entertainment or professional wrestling,
[30:16] Speaker 2: no stories are bigger than the ones written by WWE legends.
[30:21] Speaker 2: superstars like Stone Cold Steve Austin and The Rock, trailblazers
[30:25] Speaker 2: like Trish Stratus, and factions like the NWO and DX.
[30:29] Speaker 2: Their legacies are unforgettable. And if you want to wear
[30:33] Speaker 2: that history, you need the real deal. That's why you've
[30:37] Speaker 2: got to check out WWE Shop and Fanatics. They have
[30:40] Speaker 2: the ultimate lineup of official WWE Legends merchandise. We're talking
[30:45] Speaker 2: classic graphic tees, premium vintage hoodies, and retro gear. Whether
[30:50] Speaker 2: you're hitting a live show or just repping your favorite
[30:53] Speaker 2: era on the street, Fanatics has you covered. Don't wait.
[30:57] Speaker 2: Head over to wweshop.com and fanatics.com right now and grab
[31:03] Speaker 2: your favorite Legends gear.
[31:07] Speaker 1: That was quite the experience doing the Doc Hendricks and
[31:10] Speaker 1: being here all that time.
[31:11] Speaker 2: So what were some of your key– why was it
[31:14] Speaker 2: such an experience?
[31:15] Speaker 1: Well, because I did not like it. I was not
[31:17] Speaker 1: fond of Doc Hendricks.
[31:19] Speaker 4: But I knew that's.
[31:20] Speaker 2: What– You wanted to be Montana Moonshine.
[31:24] Speaker 4: I didn't want to be Montana Moonshine.
[31:27] Speaker 2: Wasn't that the name that you wanted?
[31:29] Speaker 1: No, that was one I think Chris Chambers actually threw out.
[31:33] Speaker 2: Oh, I thought you had the Montana Moonshine.
[31:35] Speaker 1: Actually, Chris Chambers threw out Montana. Brian Gewirtz heard that
[31:40] Speaker 1: and made.
[31:40] Speaker 2: It Montana Moonshine.
[31:42] Speaker 4: That's what happened.
[31:42] Speaker 2: That's a pretty good one, I have to say.
[31:44] Speaker 4: Yeah, it is. I thought it was great.
[31:46] Speaker 2: And shout out to Chris Chambers, too.
[31:47] Speaker 4: Yeah, Chris Chambers, great, great. That's what Vince wanted. You know,
[31:55] Speaker 4: I started out as co-commentator with him. That didn't last long.
[31:58] Speaker 1: And then, you know, so I knew that it was
[32:04] Speaker 1: that sink or swim.
[32:05] Speaker 4: Right.
[32:05] Speaker 2: Well, and you had had such a storied story. History,
[32:09] Speaker 2: a beginning with Vince. Yeah.
[32:12] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[32:14] Speaker 2: And it didn't go well.
[32:16] Speaker 4: No, it did not go well at all.
[32:18] Speaker 1: But there's some really loose ends on that about what
[32:22] Speaker 1: really happened. Because what really happened was we walked out.
[32:29] Speaker 1: Buddy and Michael came back. And then Vince and Michael
[32:34] Speaker 1: were going to talk. Because I don't think Vince ever
[32:36] Speaker 1: really wanted all the Freebirds. I think he just wanted
[32:38] Speaker 1: Michael to do the rock and roll thing. Because, you know,
[32:41] Speaker 1: I came here and had a deal with Electric Records.
[32:44] Speaker 2: Well, I found out about that later.
[32:45] Speaker 4: For $ 750, 000 in 1984.
[32:46] Speaker 2: That's a shitload of money.
[32:48] Speaker 4: Shitload of money at that time.
[32:50] Speaker 2: What happened?
[32:52] Speaker 4: Freebird. Just bad choices? You know what? When we left Texas... I.
[32:58] Speaker 1: Had always been taught by Appa and Sika to get
[33:01] Speaker 1: hot and then leave while you're hot because you'd always
[33:03] Speaker 1: have a place.
[33:04] Speaker 4: To go back to.
[33:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, leave and eat more.
[33:06] Speaker 1: That's what we always did. As soon as we got
[33:08] Speaker 1: hot and got the blow off, we'd leave. And maybe
[33:12] Speaker 1: we shouldn't have done that, but we did. And we
[33:14] Speaker 1: came here, especially on the record. I don't think Terry
[33:17] Speaker 1: really wanted to come because he had fallen in love
[33:21] Speaker 1: for the first time in his life. And I told
[33:22] Speaker 1: him it would happen to him. It was always girls, girls, girls.
[33:25] Speaker 1: And then I said, one day you're going to fall
[33:26] Speaker 1: in love. And then you're going to look at women different.
[33:30] Speaker 1: And then she was from Texas, and she would travel
[33:32] Speaker 1: with him, and later became his wife.
[33:35] Speaker 4: But I remember we were at the Ramada.
[33:38] Speaker 1: Inn there close to Madison Square Gardens, and we're having
[33:41] Speaker 1: a couple drinks before we go, and he goes, I
[33:42] Speaker 1: don't think I like this, Michael.
[33:45] Speaker 4: And I went, mm.
[33:48] Speaker 1: But we were in Pittsburgh, and there was no hotel room,
[33:53] Speaker 1: so Terry slept on the grass by the pool.
[33:57] Speaker 4: At the Howard Johnson's.
[34:00] Speaker 1: We got up the next morning and there was a
[34:02] Speaker 1: flight to like New Haven or something.
[34:06] Speaker 4: And there was a flight to Atlanta. Oh, boy.
[34:09] Speaker 1: And it didn't take long. And all of a sudden
[34:11] Speaker 1: we're changing our flights and here comes Andre.
[34:13] Speaker 4: Andre. And we hid. All three of us were hiding
[34:16] Speaker 4: behind this pillar. Like, I hope you don't see us.
[34:18] Speaker 4: Please don't see us.
[34:21] Speaker 2: Three grown men hiding.
[34:23] Speaker 4: Behind the pillar. God, I hope you don't see us.
[34:26] Speaker 2: What would he do if he saw you?
[34:29] Speaker 4: Like, what were you afraid of? Yeah.
[34:32] Speaker 1: Well, because I'd already gotten in trouble for showing up
[34:35] Speaker 1: when his first time.
[34:36] Speaker 4: He was an agent. And I didn't.
[34:39] Speaker 2: Andre was an agent?
[34:40] Speaker 4: He was an agent. He was running the show. Really?
[34:43] Speaker 1: In Youngstown, Ohio. And we were staying in Columbus, and
[34:47] Speaker 1: I thought we were off.
[34:49] Speaker 4: Oh, no.
[34:49] Speaker 1: So I drank about, I don't know, 10, 12 beers
[34:53] Speaker 1: and had taken some Valium.
[34:55] Speaker 2: Some marijuana pills?
[34:56] Speaker 4: Yeah. And we pull up to this school, and I go,
[35:01] Speaker 4: what are we doing here? And Terry goes, we're going
[35:04] Speaker 4: to work.
[35:05] Speaker 3: Work?
[35:07] Speaker 1: And I walked in and literally like the cartoon you see,
[35:10] Speaker 1: they're both holding me up and Andre's there playing cribbage
[35:13] Speaker 1: or whatever and drinking his wine.
[35:15] Speaker 4: He drunk. And they go, no, he's not. And they
[35:18] Speaker 4: let me go. Faceplant? Faceplant. Really bad. I tried to
[35:25] Speaker 4: jump to top rope.
[35:25] Speaker 2: I didn't know Andre was an agent ever.
[35:28] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[35:28] Speaker 1: So that didn't go well. And he was very instrumental
[35:31] Speaker 1: in talking us up. Him and I were close when
[35:33] Speaker 1: he would.
[35:34] Speaker 4: Come to Georgia. I would take him around and stuff,
[35:36] Speaker 4: you know, and I blew that.
[35:38] Speaker 2: I always had a great relationship with Andre.
[35:41] Speaker 4: I know you did. He loved you.
[35:43] Speaker 2: I loved him.
[35:44] Speaker 4: I know.
[35:46] Speaker 1: But then, you know, so because of that instance and
[35:48] Speaker 1: we didn't want to stay, we were leaving. And then
[35:52] Speaker 1: Vince called for like a week and I never answered
[35:54] Speaker 1: the phone. And finally, I just bugged me. I knew
[35:56] Speaker 1: I wouldn't raise that way. That's not how you do business.
[35:59] Speaker 4: And I called him back and I tried to explain it.
[36:02] Speaker 4: We weren't going.
[36:02] Speaker 1: We weren't making what you said we were going to
[36:05] Speaker 1: make right up front and this and that.
[36:07] Speaker 4: And I said, but I'm sorry. We did wrong. I'll
[36:09] Speaker 4: come back, make the shots, and I would like to stay.
[36:13] Speaker 4: We were already booked to go to Japan. And so
[36:17] Speaker 4: then I met him in.
[36:18] Speaker 1: Toronto, and we went to talk, and I think this
[36:21] Speaker 1: is the infamous meeting where I fell asleep.
[36:26] Speaker 4: Wait, wait, wait.
[36:26] Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about this.
[36:28] Speaker 4: So– And I come to the meeting with a beer. Now,
[36:35] Speaker 4: it's after the show.
[36:35] Speaker 2: It's late. But this is the first time you're meeting
[36:40] Speaker 2: with him after bailing?
[36:42] Speaker 4: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's a free bird way
[36:46] Speaker 4: of doing business.
[36:47] Speaker 2: And you went back because you felt like you were
[36:50] Speaker 2: being unprofessional.
[36:51] Speaker 3: Okay.
[36:51] Speaker 4: Okay.
[36:56] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[36:57] Speaker 4: Guilty as charged.
[36:59] Speaker 2: So you're in Toronto.
[37:01] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[37:02] Speaker 2: After a show. Have you worked that show?
[37:04] Speaker 4: Yeah. Okay.
[37:05] Speaker 2: For him?
[37:06] Speaker 4: Yes. Okay. Yeah.
[37:08] Speaker 2: And it was successful? You came back?
[37:10] Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was fine.
[37:11] Speaker 2: Everything went well?
[37:12] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[37:12] Speaker 1: And then we were going to talk and- Though we talked,
[37:16] Speaker 1: it seemed amicable. I'm pretty sure that put the nail
[37:20] Speaker 1: in the coffin for him.
[37:21] Speaker 2: When you fell asleep?
[37:22] Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. And so then we took off.
[37:25] Speaker 2: Was it like a nod off or did you like
[37:27] Speaker 2: pass out? I think it was a face in the plate.
[37:28] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[37:29] Speaker 4: I'm not sure.
[37:29] Speaker 1: Okay.
[37:30] Speaker 4: I don't recall. Yeah.
[37:34] Speaker 1: I thought I was doing good because I wasn't drinking
[37:35] Speaker 1: Jack Daniels. So that was my mindset at the time, okay?
[37:40] Speaker 4: Well, I was only drinking beer. That's funny. So anyway,
[37:46] Speaker 4: we were on the way to Japan. And so I stopped.
[37:50] Speaker 2: So how does the meeting, like, do you just wake
[37:53] Speaker 2: up and everyone's gone? Like, how does the meeting end?
[37:55] Speaker 4: I think we were just in the lobby talking.
[37:57] Speaker 2: Oh, it wasn't like a sit-down.
[37:58] Speaker 4: No, it wasn't like in the office.
[37:59] Speaker 2: I'm picturing you guys sitting down.
[38:00] Speaker 4: Having a meeting. No, okay. It was like after the show.
[38:02] Speaker 2: You were just chatting.
[38:03] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[38:04] Speaker 2: And you just kind of fucking, you're out.
[38:07] Speaker 4: Okay.
[38:08] Speaker 1: So, but my recollection of leaving the meeting was we
[38:11] Speaker 1: were still good to go.
[38:12] Speaker 2: Okay.
[38:13] Speaker 4: And then when I got to L.A.
[38:15] Speaker 1: As we were changing planes, I called and George Scott,
[38:17] Speaker 1: who was the booker at the time, says, he doesn't
[38:20] Speaker 1: trust you.
[38:22] Speaker 4: I go, why not?
[38:23] Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder.
[38:25] Speaker 4: I thought he trusted me when we talked. No, he
[38:27] Speaker 4: doesn't trust you.
[38:28] Speaker 2: Nope.
[38:30] Speaker 1: And Dave Wolf, who was Cindy Lauper's boyfriend manager at
[38:33] Speaker 1: the time, was trying to smooth things over.
[38:35] Speaker 2: Yeah, how could I?
[38:37] Speaker 4: And, you know, at the time, I didn't understand because
[38:40] Speaker 4: we're free birds. That's what we do.
[38:42] Speaker 2: You live in the gimmick, right?
[38:43] Speaker 4: You told me to do this. You know what we do.
[38:47] Speaker 1: We produce in the ring and we put asses in seats.
[38:49] Speaker 4: Except that one time. Except the first time.
[38:52] Speaker 1: So... So then that was it, and Terry went back
[38:59] Speaker 1: to Dallas, and Buddy just kind of was in purgatory,
[39:03] Speaker 1: and I went and got the book in Florida.
[39:08] Speaker 2: So what was the music deal? Were you going to— Okay,
[39:12] Speaker 2: so we did Bass Street USA.
[39:14] Speaker 1: We did Freebird, and then I told you everybody started
[39:18] Speaker 1: playing music there. But nobody had to get permission.
[39:22] Speaker 2: For a long time. Yeah, music rights.
[39:24] Speaker 1: And then I would start hearing with my record friends that.
[39:27] Speaker 4: Man, they're going to come down on you. You guys
[39:29] Speaker 4: are playing this. music on TV, not paying a dime. Right.
[39:32] Speaker 4: And so that's when I, which I always want to
[39:34] Speaker 4: do my own song. Right.
[39:36] Speaker 1: And so then that's when I got with Jimmy Papa
[39:38] Speaker 1: in Dallas and we came up with Bad Street USA. Actually,
[39:41] Speaker 1: I have to do this because I always forget. As
[39:44] Speaker 1: much as Jimmy Papa was involved, and should get credit,
[39:47] Speaker 1: so should Larry Velez, who was a guitar player that
[39:50] Speaker 1: really put the song together musically.
[39:53] Speaker 4: And I always forget to tell him that.
[39:54] Speaker 2: All right, Larry.
[39:55] Speaker 4: And his wife always calls me names because of it.
[39:58] Speaker 4: So there you go, Rita. I put Larry over.
[40:04] Speaker 1: And then we made Bad Street USA, and, you know,
[40:08] Speaker 1: very successful, especially for a heel.
[40:10] Speaker 4: Right.
[40:11] Speaker 1: And then we did the video and premiered the video. So,
[40:16] Speaker 1: you know, Vince was getting everybody, the top guys from
[40:18] Speaker 1: all territories. And, in fact, I was the one that
[40:21] Speaker 1: helped him get Dog, or at least got the word
[40:23] Speaker 1: to Dog and put them two together.
[40:25] Speaker 2: Wow.
[40:27] Speaker 4: But.
[40:28] Speaker 1: It was a $ 750, 000 record deal, and I.
[40:32] Speaker 4: Think $ 250, 000.
[40:34] Speaker 1: Was for production. So if you kept your budget around there,
[40:38] Speaker 1: you had a lot of extra change.
[40:40] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[40:41] Speaker 4: Deal.
[40:42] Speaker 1: But the fact that the birds didn't want to stay–
[40:46] Speaker 1: I knew I wouldn't make it on my own. And
[40:48] Speaker 1: maybe I sold myself short. But people always sometimes look
[40:52] Speaker 1: at the lead singer in a band and go, that's
[40:54] Speaker 1: the band.
[40:55] Speaker 4: That's not the band. That's just the guy bringing you
[40:59] Speaker 4: the lead vocals. I mean, sometimes the lead singer is
[41:03] Speaker 4: the heart of the band.
[41:05] Speaker 1: But without the band, you're nothing. And I knew I
[41:08] Speaker 1: was nothing without them because they were the ones that
[41:10] Speaker 1: could wrestle good. I couldn't wrestle good, but I could
[41:13] Speaker 1: sure talk.
[41:13] Speaker 4: Right.
[41:15] Speaker 1: Bring them in and, um, and I could carry my
[41:18] Speaker 1: partner ring brawl. You know, I get my ass kicked
[41:20] Speaker 1: really well.
[41:21] Speaker 4: Sure. That's what I do. I like doing it. And
[41:24] Speaker 4: people like to see it.
[41:25] Speaker 2: Imagine that.
[41:27] Speaker 1: Even if they don't have to pay for it. But, um,
[41:32] Speaker 1: I think that was the impetus for bringing us up there. And, um,
[41:37] Speaker 1: you know, it's Jimmy Papa to this day. Yeah.
[41:41] Speaker 4: Hates it. Like, I'll never forget when I called him
[41:43] Speaker 4: and go, well, he walked out. What? Yeah. So, you know,
[41:52] Speaker 4: the record deal is gone.
[41:53] Speaker 1: Is it? Yeah.
[41:55] Speaker 4: Yeah. They canceled that. I didn't care at the time.
[41:59] Speaker 4: It was. We were too immature. Too much.
[42:03] Speaker 2: Too soon. How old were you?
[42:04] Speaker 1: 24, 25. Yeah.
[42:04] Speaker 3: Still. I was. But.
[42:09] Speaker 4: You know, I had a really good bad habit of
[42:12] Speaker 4: being a very functional drunk. Right. I was really able
[42:17] Speaker 4: to operate hungover. We didn't get messed up that much
[42:26] Speaker 4: before the matches. Right. We did sometimes. Right. I have.
[42:31] Speaker 4: But that was not the norm. The norm was after.
[42:33] Speaker 2: So you may come into it. Though still slightly.
[42:38] Speaker 4: Hungover. Yeah. Oh, sure.
[42:39] Speaker 2: I mean, hungover, still slightly drunk.
[42:43] Speaker 4: Just not as. Yeah. Yeah. But still able to operate. Right. And,
[42:48] Speaker 4: you know, have that, oh, you hate me? Well, I
[42:51] Speaker 4: hate you worse. Which helps as a heel.
[42:54] Speaker 1: Sure.
[42:55] Speaker 4: It really does.
[42:58] Speaker 1: But the, you know, even in Texas, we would bring
[43:01] Speaker 1: a half a gallon of Jack Daniels, not opened, and
[43:05] Speaker 1: it would sit there on the bench. And as soon
[43:08] Speaker 1: as we were all finished, we'd open that sucker up.
[43:12] Speaker 1: One time, the Hollywood John Tatum guy, he came out,
[43:16] Speaker 1: and I got him booked to do some jobs for us.
[43:18] Speaker 1: And so we stopped, and I said, go in there,
[43:21] Speaker 1: get us half a gallon, and get us a 16-ounce.
[43:23] Speaker 4: Coke, Diet Coke. And he goes, okay, what's a Coke for?
[43:28] Speaker 4: I said, to mix the drinks. When the bottle was gone,
[43:33] Speaker 4: there was still some Diet Coke left.
[43:37] Speaker 2: That's a good drink.
[43:41] Speaker 4: Yikes. Birds were bad boys.
[43:43] Speaker 2: Yeah, but here you are two years sober.
[43:45] Speaker 4: I am. Right?
[43:46] Speaker 2: So that kind of a lifestyle for so long. Yeah.
[43:51] Speaker 5: Right?
[43:51] Speaker 2: Like that is... I mean, that's how you live.
[43:55] Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, you should know you sent me to rehab enough.
[43:58] Speaker 4: I did try. I did try. You did try.
[44:03] Speaker 2: I did try.
[44:04] Speaker 4: God, I think one time you tried to get my
[44:06] Speaker 4: wife to go too at the same time.
[44:08] Speaker 2: Two for one deal.
[44:12] Speaker 4: But I don't know.
[44:15] Speaker 1: The only reason I can say is God and my
[44:18] Speaker 1: willingness to give it a shot. Because any other time
[44:20] Speaker 1: I went to rehab, I always had in the back
[44:22] Speaker 1: of my mind, how and when I was going to
[44:25] Speaker 1: start drinking again.
[44:26] Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and it's always like when you send, well,
[44:29] Speaker 2: first of all, if you don't want to get clean,
[44:30] Speaker 2: you're not going to get clean.
[44:31] Speaker 4: You're not going to get clean.
[44:32] Speaker 2: You have to want it. You have to want it.
[44:33] Speaker 1: You have to want it. It can't be have to.
[44:35] Speaker 1: Have to can start you. Like I have to do this.
[44:38] Speaker 2: Right, sometimes.
[44:39] Speaker 1: I have to keep my job. I have to keep
[44:41] Speaker 1: my family. That can start you. But if you can't
[44:44] Speaker 1: get to I want to.
[44:45] Speaker 2: It's not going to last. Then it's not going to work.
[44:47] Speaker 2: And like you said, the whole time you're thinking, yeah,
[44:50] Speaker 2: I just got to go through this so I can
[44:52] Speaker 2: start again.
[44:52] Speaker 4: Yeah. Right?
[44:53] Speaker 2: It's not going to work.
[44:54] Speaker 4: Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.
[44:55] Speaker 2: And plus, wrestlers going through rehab when they don't want to,
[44:58] Speaker 2: I mean, you're like the ultimate cons, right? Like, I
[45:02] Speaker 2: was always like, well, when I, sometimes I would hear
[45:06] Speaker 2: in certain particular cases that Like, oh, but he said this, this,
[45:11] Speaker 2: and this. And I'm like, you believed him?
[45:18] Speaker 4: Hello, his profession is a bullshit artist.
[45:21] Speaker 2: And then he's like, so I think that it doesn't
[45:24] Speaker 2: need to be, you know, he could be off-site, you know.
[45:27] Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, okay.
[45:30] Speaker 4: Great.
[45:31] Speaker 2: He could do it from home.
[45:32] Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
[45:33] Speaker 1: Well, one of the first rehabs I went to, They
[45:37] Speaker 1: had me stay for 72 hours to see if I
[45:39] Speaker 1: needed to be in-house or outpatient.
[45:42] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[45:42] Speaker 2: I couldn't think of the word outpatient.
[45:44] Speaker 4: The first night I'm there, okay, there's these hookers coming
[45:49] Speaker 4: in the room I'm in with drugs.
[45:52] Speaker 2: No shit.
[45:53] Speaker 4: Really?
[45:53] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[45:53] Speaker 2: Part of the test or?
[45:55] Speaker 4: Yeah. And I'm like, well, no. Wait, wait.
[45:58] Speaker 2: Like were they patients as well?
[46:00] Speaker 5: No.
[46:00] Speaker 1: No.
[46:00] Speaker 4: The guy's going to come over. I don't think they
[46:05] Speaker 4: were far away.
[46:06] Speaker 2: It was like a big party?
[46:08] Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess. I just stayed in my room.
[46:11] Speaker 2: Wait, but the other patients got them to come? The
[46:14] Speaker 2: patients I was sharing the room with.
[46:17] Speaker 4: And I could tell this wasn't the first time that happened. Right.
[46:23] Speaker 2: They knew everybody on the way in.
[46:24] Speaker 4: Hey, Bob. How you doing? How's Joe and the kids? But, yeah,
[46:34] Speaker 4: I've seen some screwed up things at rehab. Damn.
[46:38] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[46:39] Speaker 1: But I will say this, that the last one I
[46:41] Speaker 1: went to at Riverside was really, really cool. And it
[46:45] Speaker 1: was very helpful. Shannon Moore was there who used to
[46:49] Speaker 1: wrestle for us.
[46:50] Speaker 2: He's helped a lot of people.
[46:52] Speaker 4: He's helped me out immensely.
[46:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, he's really helped a lot of people.
[46:54] Speaker 4: He's really helped a lot of people. And he was
[46:56] Speaker 4: in a really bad place. Yeah.
[46:58] Speaker 2: Well, oftentimes, I mean, some of the best. Rehabilitators, if
[47:04] Speaker 2: you will. I'm not sure the proper terminology, but they're
[47:07] Speaker 2: the ones who were at their lowest.
[47:10] Speaker 4: Because they've been there.
[47:11] Speaker 2: Yeah. And they can relate going back to that.
[47:14] Speaker 4: Relate.
[47:14] Speaker 1: And listen, while we're sitting here tooting my horn, let's
[47:17] Speaker 1: get one thing straight. I'm California sober.
[47:21] Speaker 4: Okay? I'm not going to sit here and pretend like
[47:24] Speaker 4: I'm a holy roller. Because I ain't.
[47:28] Speaker 2: But whatever works.
[47:31] Speaker 4: Matter of fact, as soon as I leave. No.
[47:32] Speaker 2: No. I'm glad I didn't unzip that fanny pack.
[47:40] Speaker 4: I knew it.
[47:42] Speaker 2: I just wanted to take a hit off my pipe.
[47:44] Speaker 4: Sorry.
[47:46] Speaker 1: You know what else I got to thank you for,
[47:48] Speaker 1: for coming to that match when I replaced Terry.
[47:51] Speaker 4: I'll never forget you told me, you go, wow, you
[47:54] Speaker 4: wrestle so slow. Yeah, that's the speed I go. But
[48:04] Speaker 4: if you'll recall, he had came to, we were in
[48:07] Speaker 4: Birmingham for Raw, and he came that Monday, and he
[48:12] Speaker 4: OD'd and died. Actually, he didn't OD.
[48:15] Speaker 1: He had an aneurysm in his heart, and he died
[48:19] Speaker 1: that Saturday. And he really, that's probably because he really
[48:25] Speaker 1: looked good that Monday, you know? But that's one that just,
[48:34] Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't process anything.
[48:36] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[48:37] Speaker 4: I don't. I just move the fuck on. And I
[48:40] Speaker 4: think sometimes that's to my detriment. Yeah. You know, because
[48:44] Speaker 4: I just.
[48:45] Speaker 2: Is that not a process in rehab? Don't you have
[48:49] Speaker 2: to literally face your demons and experiences and things?
[48:55] Speaker 4: You do, but like.
[48:58] Speaker 1: Like in my life, I live three months ahead. I'm
[49:01] Speaker 1: never day of. Everything's booked for me two, three months ahead.
[49:07] Speaker 1: So that's where my head's at. You know, like I
[49:10] Speaker 1: still haven't processed my mother's death. You know, I just,
[49:15] Speaker 1: I just move on.
[49:16] Speaker 2: Your actual mom or the mom that?
[49:19] Speaker 4: My actual mother. Yeah. Yeah.
[49:21] Speaker 1: It's just, you know, you're the older brother. You've got
[49:23] Speaker 1: to be strong. You've got to get everything done. Thank
[49:26] Speaker 1: God I got her to go with me and make
[49:28] Speaker 1: funeral arrangements years before.
[49:31] Speaker 2: And how long ago did she pass?
[49:35] Speaker 4: About a year and a half ago. A year this summer,
[49:37] Speaker 4: not even a year and a half ago. She passed
[49:40] Speaker 4: right when Hogan did. So it was like, you know,
[49:44] Speaker 4: I wasn't going to say a lot to anybody because
[49:47] Speaker 4: everybody was dealing with Hogan stuff.
[49:50] Speaker 1: But, you know, I just– it's all my life. I
[49:54] Speaker 1: don't even think I processed my second divorce yet. You know,
[49:57] Speaker 1: I just move on.
[49:59] Speaker 4: And I think at some point in time it's going
[50:02] Speaker 4: to catch up with me. But for now it works.
[50:06] Speaker 4: Do you– Do you feel like when you're three months
[50:09] Speaker 4: ahead that you're not living today?
[50:12] Speaker 2: Do you not feel present?
[50:13] Speaker 4: I don't live today. Ever? Ever. I really don't.
[50:20] Speaker 1: If I realize an accomplishment or something, let me give
[50:25] Speaker 1: an example.
[50:25] Speaker 4: I've been remodeling my house. Okay. Not me personally.
[50:29] Speaker 2: Right, right. You're having it modeled, yes.
[50:31] Speaker 4: Okay.
[50:32] Speaker 2: What a great visual.
[50:35] Speaker 4: Well, I have my say.
[50:38] Speaker 2: Mary Poppins.
[50:42] Speaker 4: Hey, come over here.
[50:47] Speaker 1: But like I'll do, I'll see something because I'm very
[50:52] Speaker 1: hands-on with the project and how I want it to look.
[50:56] Speaker 1: And it'll get done and I'll look at it and
[50:58] Speaker 1: I'll go, oh, okay, that's good. And in about a week,
[51:02] Speaker 1: I will absolutely love it. But there's no way I'll
[51:05] Speaker 1: absolutely love it when I see it the first time.
[51:08] Speaker 2: Well, I think that's fair.
[51:09] Speaker 4: Is that normal?
[51:10] Speaker 2: It's got to register. Like it takes time. I think
[51:13] Speaker 2: to process things, it does take time. But it needs
[51:18] Speaker 2: to be. I don't know. I don't know what it
[51:21] Speaker 2: needs to be. I think it's different for everybody.
[51:23] Speaker 4: It is.
[51:24] Speaker 1: And I think you nailed it on the head, at
[51:26] Speaker 1: least for me. It takes time.
[51:28] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[51:29] Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't take time. Yeah. I'm just, no, what's next? Yeah.
[51:33] Speaker 2: And it's hard to sit with your feelings. You know,
[51:36] Speaker 2: it is.
[51:36] Speaker 5: It is.
[51:37] Speaker 2: And to sit with things that happen and... Like, go deep. Like,
[51:42] Speaker 2: why do I feel this way? Why do I, you know... Yeah, I.
[51:46] Speaker 4: Guess a lot of times I just go, well, there's
[51:48] Speaker 4: nothing you can do about it.
[51:49] Speaker 2: Right, so let's just move on.
[51:50] Speaker 4: So just move on. Yeah. But it's not that.
[51:52] Speaker 2: You don't acknowledge or understand. It's... Right? Because you do... Like,
[52:00] Speaker 2: here you are, California sober.
[52:02] Speaker 4: Right? Yeah.
[52:03] Speaker 2: There's a reason you are.
[52:04] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[52:05] Speaker 2: Right?
[52:07] Speaker 3: Like, it.
[52:08] Speaker 4: I think the reason was it was time.
[52:11] Speaker 2: But not everybody gets there.
[52:12] Speaker 4: No, I know that. And, you know, statistics and analytics
[52:16] Speaker 4: will tell you, you know, that I'll revert back and
[52:19] Speaker 4: I'll become a drunk again. Your husband told me I've
[52:23] Speaker 4: been defying the odds all my life.
[52:25] Speaker 2: I think that's true. I think that's true.
[52:30] Speaker 4: And I feel really good.
[52:32] Speaker 2: You look great, by the way.
[52:33] Speaker 4: Thank you.
[52:33] Speaker 2: You really do.
[52:34] Speaker 4: You don't know what it's like to wake up and
[52:37] Speaker 4: not worry what you texted somebody. Ooh. Not have the shakes. Yeah. Yeah,
[52:43] Speaker 4: that shit sucks. And, you know, it's just, when I
[52:48] Speaker 4: wake up, I'm so thankful and I feel so good.
[52:52] Speaker 4: And once again, I was a good hangover person. Sure.
[52:55] Speaker 4: Because I was used to it. Yeah. And I felt
[52:57] Speaker 4: that's how I had to be. And this time I
[53:01] Speaker 4: just thought, you know what?
[53:04] Speaker 1: Just give it a shot. And the more I gave
[53:07] Speaker 1: it a shot, the more I like it. And now
[53:10] Speaker 1: I'm at where I love it.
[53:11] Speaker 2: Well, it has to be what you want.
[53:13] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[53:13] Speaker 2: Like you said.
[53:14] Speaker 1: It has to be you want to do this, not
[53:16] Speaker 1: I have to do this. And so far, so good.
[53:21] Speaker 1: One day at a time.
[53:23] Speaker 2: I have seen you process and be very emotional over
[53:28] Speaker 2: your dogs.
[53:29] Speaker 4: Yeah. I love my dogs. Yeah.
[53:34] Speaker 2: Talk about your dogs.
[53:37] Speaker 4: Well, I've had dogs all my life.
[53:40] Speaker 1: I had JoJo Hayes was a female Rottweiler that I
[53:46] Speaker 1: had with my last wife. And then we got divorced
[53:50] Speaker 1: and we shared her. And then she needed hip replacement.
[53:58] Speaker 1: And they had to keep redoing it.
[54:01] Speaker 4: And I took her to the University of Georgia, which
[54:03] Speaker 4: is like one of the best veterinarian schools in the country.
[54:06] Speaker 4: And she ended up dying there, which was just so hard.
[54:10] Speaker 4: It's the worst.
[54:12] Speaker 2: It's the worst.
[54:13] Speaker 1: And then after that, I got a couple Rottweilers. And
[54:19] Speaker 1: then I got another.
[54:20] Speaker 4: One, which is Denzel, who became my guy. Such a
[54:25] Speaker 4: great name. Denzel was my guy.
[54:28] Speaker 1: And I had him for eight years. And then he passed.
[54:32] Speaker 1: And I'm not ashamed to say I cry like a baby.
[54:36] Speaker 4: When every one of them goes. Yeah. Like a baby.
[54:39] Speaker 2: For your family.
[54:40] Speaker 4: Like guttural. Yeah. It kills me.
[54:44] Speaker 2: It's the worst.
[54:44] Speaker 1: It's the worst because she can't do nothing.
[54:46] Speaker 2: Yeah, and their lives are so short compared to ours.
[54:50] Speaker 4: It is. Yeah.
[54:51] Speaker 1: You know, like when my mama went, it was time.
[54:55] Speaker 1: She was failing in health. She needed to go get
[54:58] Speaker 1: to a better place. You know, I'm okay with that.
[55:02] Speaker 1: When they're just there and you can't do nothing.
[55:06] Speaker 4: Yeah. It sucks.
[55:07] Speaker 1: Yes.
[55:08] Speaker 4: You know, putting them down is the worst.
[55:10] Speaker 2: It's the worst ever.
[55:13] Speaker 4: Even if you know it's better for them. It still sucks. But. Yeah.
[55:19] Speaker 4: But now.
[55:19] Speaker 1: But now I got two more that I saved. My
[55:24] Speaker 1: dog lady, Ellie, brought them. Denzel was dead for about
[55:28] Speaker 1: a year, a little over a year. And I got
[55:31] Speaker 1: a text from her. And she said, text me now.
[55:35] Speaker 4: And I was like, okay, it's got to be about dogs.
[55:37] Speaker 4: And I had literally been praying twice a day. Please
[55:39] Speaker 4: send me a puppy. If you can, two. But please
[55:42] Speaker 4: send me a dog.
[55:44] Speaker 1: And, uh, cause I say my prayers when I get
[55:46] Speaker 1: up and when I go to bed every night, every day.
[55:49] Speaker 1: And so I called her and she said, I found
[55:52] Speaker 1: two dogs. This lady brought him in her and her
[55:54] Speaker 1: son are living in her car with the dogs. She said, um,
[56:00] Speaker 1: and you can have them if you want them.
[56:02] Speaker 4: I said, okay.
[56:02] Speaker 1: I said, uh, how old are they? And she said,
[56:05] Speaker 1: they're Seven and nine. I said, ooh, Ellie, they're old.
[56:11] Speaker 1: And then I thought for a second, I went, well, fuck,
[56:13] Speaker 1: I'm old.
[56:14] Speaker 4: And I thought, well, who's going to take them if
[56:17] Speaker 4: you don't? And I said, all right, Ellie, do you
[56:23] Speaker 4: think I should take them? She said, yes. And it's
[56:26] Speaker 4: been so beautiful. They act like they've lived with me
[56:28] Speaker 4: their whole life. Yeah. It's so fun.
[56:31] Speaker 2: And do you let them in the house now?
[56:32] Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
[56:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, because you used to have outside dogs, right?
[56:35] Speaker 4: Yeah, I used to have outside dogs.
[56:38] Speaker 1: JoJo was inside because Lori kept her inside all the time.
[56:42] Speaker 1: Denzel was inside, and he was a good inside dog.
[56:46] Speaker 1: These dogs are pretty good inside. The shepherd, his name's Caesar,
[56:51] Speaker 1: he tries.
[56:52] Speaker 4: You every night. Every night around 7 o'clock, he gets
[56:57] Speaker 4: a little frisky. And he gives me this look. I'm like,
[57:03] Speaker 4: you better back the fuck up. You ain't getting nothing here, buddy.
[57:08] Speaker 4: Because he's not fixed.
[57:10] Speaker 1: Oh.
[57:10] Speaker 4: The other one's fixed. Okay. So he really gets frisky.
[57:14] Speaker 1: And then he gets this look like, okay. And he'll
[57:17] Speaker 1: walk over to the couch I sit on, the new couch.
[57:19] Speaker 1: He has his own old couch. It's been the old
[57:22] Speaker 1: dog couch forever.
[57:23] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[57:24] Speaker 4: And... He walks up and he'll look and he'll put
[57:27] Speaker 4: his paws up on my knee. Then he'll put his
[57:29] Speaker 4: head here. And I'll go, no, Caesar, you're not getting
[57:33] Speaker 4: on the couch. And then he'll go over here because
[57:36] Speaker 4: it's one of those big L-shaped.
[57:38] Speaker 5: Right.
[57:38] Speaker 4: And he'll jump on the couch over there. Oh. Knowing
[57:41] Speaker 4: I'm going to tell him to get down.
[57:42] Speaker 2: Of course he just wants your attention.
[57:44] Speaker 4: But he thinks maybe this one time he'll listen.
[57:46] Speaker 2: Tonight's the night. Tonight's the night.
[57:48] Speaker 4: Every night.
[57:49] Speaker 2: Every time he does that.
[57:50] Speaker 4: Every time.
[57:50] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[57:51] Speaker 2: You just get a huge smile when.
[57:53] Speaker 4: You see him, right? I do. Well, first off, dude.
[57:56] Speaker 2: Don't do it. Don't do it.
[57:58] Speaker 4: Get off that couch.
[57:59] Speaker 2: But he's so cute.
[58:00] Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. He's a worker.
[58:04] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[58:04] Speaker 4: He really is. They all are.
[58:06] Speaker 2: Of course they are.
[58:07] Speaker 4: They are. They're so much smarter than we give them
[58:09] Speaker 4: credit for. But we were going back to the Doc
[58:15] Speaker 4: Hendricks thing. Yeah. That took me... Into my next.
[58:20] Speaker 1: Hemisphere, I think. Because I went to college about TV.
[58:24] Speaker 1: I learned how to do TV.
[58:26] Speaker 4: Because I was in the studio four days a week. Right.
[58:28] Speaker 2: And you were interested.
[58:29] Speaker 4: I was very interested. I knew my wrestling career was over. Mm-hmm. Okay? Which,
[58:36] Speaker 4: that's where I made my money, because of my mouth. Right.
[58:40] Speaker 1: And I knew that was pretty much coming to an end.
[58:45] Speaker 1: And that's when I asked, You know, I said, well,
[58:47] Speaker 1: I want to do something else. And that's what Vince
[58:49] Speaker 1: put me with the Hardys.
[58:50] Speaker 4: Right. And then I thought, yes.
[58:52] Speaker 1: Right.
[58:53] Speaker 4: Okay. I got these young kids. I'm going to go
[58:56] Speaker 4: new free birds. Though Vince always said, they're not the
[58:58] Speaker 4: free birds. You're not the free birds. He hated free birds. Yeah. But.
[59:04] Speaker 2: Well, they weren't his.
[59:05] Speaker 4: No. Yeah. No, we weren't his creation. That's right.
[59:08] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[59:10] Speaker 4: I like stories where Bruce goes, you know, Vince asked,
[59:12] Speaker 4: did you guys ever draw money? He knows we drew money.
[59:19] Speaker 2: But– It's very interesting. I grew up with one very
[59:21] Speaker 2: clear vision of the business.
[59:23] Speaker 4: I'll bet you did. Nobody makes money but us. Yeah.
[59:28] Speaker 4: I'm sorry I never got to meet your grandfather.
[59:31] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[59:31] Speaker 4: I really am.
[59:32] Speaker 1: I was supposed to come up here and do a
[59:34] Speaker 1: shot and work against Superfly. I even did a promo,
[59:37] Speaker 1: sent it in for Boston. And then for some reason
[59:40] Speaker 1: it got canceled.
[59:40] Speaker 4: I never knew why. But then the Hardy things didn't
[59:45] Speaker 4: pan out. And then I figured I would.
[59:47] Speaker 2: Why didn't it work?
[59:50] Speaker 4: It was funny.
[59:51] Speaker 1: Once they dropped the titles, I was specifically told and
[59:54] Speaker 1: produced to tell them they're going back to the starting blocks.
[59:58] Speaker 1: And we're going back to foundation and you're beginning at the,
[1:00:02] Speaker 1: at the beginning and you start over and earn it and,
[1:00:04] Speaker 1: you know, be a real tyrant.
[1:00:07] Speaker 4: And then Vince goes, God, he can't be like that
[1:00:09] Speaker 4: to those kids. I should beat them up. Why is
[1:00:11] Speaker 4: he being so mean? Nobody would listen to that. No,
[1:00:14] Speaker 4: get them away from them. And then when he told
[1:00:16] Speaker 4: that it broke my heart.
[1:00:18] Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
[1:00:19] Speaker 2: I know. Cause you were invested.
[1:00:20] Speaker 4: I was invested and I did what you told me
[1:00:22] Speaker 4: to do. Right.
[1:00:23] Speaker 1: Right. Yeah.
[1:00:24] Speaker 4: And, um, And then I figured I was pretty much
[1:00:28] Speaker 4: done here. And then I think.
[1:00:29] Speaker 1: Vince saw me wandering around when he was doing vignettes
[1:00:32] Speaker 1: and stuff. And he would start pulling me in, help
[1:00:35] Speaker 1: him out.
[1:00:35] Speaker 2: How did you win him back over?
[1:00:37] Speaker 4: Because that is truly remarkable. This man.
[1:00:41] Speaker 2: Given your start.
[1:00:42] Speaker 4: He hated me. Yeah. He hated the free birds and
[1:00:45] Speaker 4: swore on everything that was swearable. That I would never
[1:00:50] Speaker 4: have a job here. Not only did I get hired
[1:00:53] Speaker 4: back here, I became one of his right-hand men. That's
[1:00:57] Speaker 4: quite an accomplishment.
[1:00:58] Speaker 2: So how did you do that?
[1:00:59] Speaker 4: Huh? How? I got his trust.
[1:01:01] Speaker 3: How?
[1:01:02] Speaker 1: Because I worked and I outworked everybody. And when he
[1:01:06] Speaker 1: wanted something done, I went and got it done. He
[1:01:09] Speaker 1: didn't have to ask about it. And I would tell
[1:01:11] Speaker 1: him I got it done.
[1:01:12] Speaker 2: You know, that's one of the philosophies he's always taught
[1:01:15] Speaker 2: me is you got to outwork them. And outlive them.
[1:01:19] Speaker 4: That's great life advice. Well, we're doing both. And you
[1:01:25] Speaker 4: got a long way to go to catch me. But,
[1:01:26] Speaker 4: you know, that. started putting, and I sucked as an
[1:01:33] Speaker 4: agent at first, you know?
[1:01:35] Speaker 2: And how did you become an agent?
[1:01:36] Speaker 1: Like, um, well, I kept, you know, about the time
[1:01:39] Speaker 1: that you, uh, teamed up with, uh, turned heel and
[1:01:41] Speaker 1: teamed up with Paul. Um, I was just saying, Hey,
[1:01:45] Speaker 1: if you want some ideas, you know, cause he didn't
[1:01:47] Speaker 1: have any wrestler on the creative team at the time.
[1:01:50] Speaker 1: I think it was just Brian and, uh, some guy
[1:01:53] Speaker 1: named Tommy from Detroit.
[1:01:55] Speaker 2: Yeah. Tommy Blacha.
[1:01:56] Speaker 4: Yeah. Tommy Blacha. I like Tommy. Yeah. Um, But and.
[1:02:03] Speaker 1: I just kept saying and he finally invited me in and,
[1:02:07] Speaker 1: you know, he wanted.
[1:02:08] Speaker 4: A wrestler to talk.
[1:02:10] Speaker 2: Well, you need it.
[1:02:11] Speaker 4: And relate to.
[1:02:12] Speaker 1: You do to balance that out, because obviously Brian didn't know.
[1:02:15] Speaker 1: Brian knew a lot about writing and entertainment. He didn't
[1:02:18] Speaker 1: know wrestling.
[1:02:19] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:02:19] Speaker 4: You know, it's a team.
[1:02:23] Speaker 2: It's a team. You need a team.
[1:02:25] Speaker 4: You have to have a team. Yeah.
[1:02:27] Speaker 1: But, you know, and then that started. And then it
[1:02:32] Speaker 1: just made my mind up that, okay, this is what
[1:02:34] Speaker 1: you're going to do. Wrestling's done. And you're going to
[1:02:36] Speaker 1: be the best they've ever had. And I don't know
[1:02:40] Speaker 1: how you're going to do that, but you're going to
[1:02:41] Speaker 1: do it. And one thing that I learned right away,
[1:02:45] Speaker 1: and I'm not knocking the older producers. I don't think
[1:02:47] Speaker 1: they were charged to do what our producers do today.
[1:02:51] Speaker 1: And our producers today are very, very, very good.
[1:02:55] Speaker 4: Okay? Not as good as me. But... And I ain't
[1:03:01] Speaker 4: going nowhere now. Yeah, I know you thought I was
[1:03:07] Speaker 4: going to die. Ain't happening. But.
[1:03:13] Speaker 1: You know, I think pretty much they just told you
[1:03:15] Speaker 1: who went over and, you know, not the details.
[1:03:17] Speaker 4: Right, right.
[1:03:18] Speaker 1: And are you bringing your character into a match? You know,
[1:03:21] Speaker 1: that's a theme I go with a lot with kids today.
[1:03:24] Speaker 2: Right.
[1:03:25] Speaker 4: And how. Yeah, how. They'll run the match. That's a
[1:03:29] Speaker 4: good match. Where's your character? You know, like I did
[1:03:32] Speaker 4: that with Chelsea one time. I always get in trouble
[1:03:34] Speaker 4: when I.
[1:03:35] Speaker 2: Talk about Chelsea. I'm surprised you just brought her up.
[1:03:38] Speaker 4: But no, I just told her.
[1:03:40] Speaker 2: But she's great with her character.
[1:03:41] Speaker 4: She is fantastic. But I told her, I said, Chelsea,
[1:03:44] Speaker 4: where was your character? I said, I'm not telling you
[1:03:48] Speaker 4: you can't wrestle and do good moves.
[1:03:50] Speaker 5: Right.
[1:03:51] Speaker 4: But everybody does moves. Everybody can't beat Chelsea. And she
[1:03:57] Speaker 4: got it right away. She's very smart. She is. She's
[1:03:59] Speaker 4: very smart.
[1:04:00] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[1:04:01] Speaker 4: And I got screwed on that clip, too.
[1:04:03] Speaker 2: Oh, I know.
[1:04:04] Speaker 4: I heard. I let him know about it. Brought him
[1:04:07] Speaker 4: to my house and fed him.
[1:04:09] Speaker 2: To Caesar.
[1:04:10] Speaker 4: Went out and got him. Jersey Mike subs. And then they...
[1:04:16] Speaker 4: Edit my shit. Right?
[1:04:17] Speaker 2: You fed them and they still made you a heel?
[1:04:20] Speaker 4: Yeah, they did. And I told them, I said, look,
[1:04:23] Speaker 4: I'm used to being a heel and not being light.
[1:04:25] Speaker 4: Just tell me. Right.
[1:04:27] Speaker 2: I can play it up for you. If you're going
[1:04:29] Speaker 2: to go this way, I could have really done that.
[1:04:34] Speaker 1: But, yeah, I just made up my mind that this
[1:04:38] Speaker 1: is your new path and go for it. And I
[1:04:41] Speaker 1: tell you, Trips came up to me one day and
[1:04:45] Speaker 1: he goes– So, Michael, you know you're not going to
[1:04:47] Speaker 1: be around forever.
[1:04:50] Speaker 4: What? What does that mean? Life or work?
[1:04:55] Speaker 2: Something I don't know about.
[1:04:56] Speaker 1: And he said, you're our Pat Patterson. I need you
[1:04:59] Speaker 1: to make Bobby rude, Michael. And I said, okay, that's
[1:05:04] Speaker 1: a really good point because I'm not going to be
[1:05:05] Speaker 1: here forever. And, boy, has he come along.
[1:05:11] Speaker 4: Yeah. Bobby's really, really good, and he's going to be great.
[1:05:17] Speaker 2: You heard it here. Well, you actually heard it on
[1:05:19] Speaker 2: Taker's podcast.
[1:05:19] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:05:20] Speaker 2: But you heard it here too.
[1:05:22] Speaker 1: I see great things for him.
[1:05:25] Speaker 4: He's just got to get.
[1:05:27] Speaker 1: Out of the stuff where– I don't know how to
[1:05:31] Speaker 1: really categorize this. Stuff happens in this industry that's just
[1:05:36] Speaker 1: out of your control and it's just going to happen
[1:05:38] Speaker 1: and you just– you got to kind of let it
[1:05:40] Speaker 1: go and say, okay.
[1:05:43] Speaker 4: Yeah. We're doing this.
[1:05:44] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:05:45] Speaker 4: Okay? And don't waste so much energy about bitching about
[1:05:48] Speaker 4: doing it because you're going to do it.
[1:05:50] Speaker 2: It's happening anyway.
[1:05:50] Speaker 4: So save the energy to do it.
[1:05:53] Speaker 2: Find a way to do it.
[1:05:54] Speaker 4: And I still have problems with that sometimes.
[1:05:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, you actually told that story too. You said find
[1:05:58] Speaker 2: a way to make it work. Don't tell me how
[1:06:00] Speaker 2: it doesn't work.
[1:06:01] Speaker 4: That's what Vince told me.
[1:06:02] Speaker 2: Tell me how you can make it work.
[1:06:04] Speaker 4: He said, Michael, there's many people out on the street
[1:06:06] Speaker 4: tell me why it don't work.
[1:06:07] Speaker 1: Right.
[1:06:08] Speaker 4: I need somebody who tells me how it will work. Yep.
[1:06:11] Speaker 2: And And it changes your perspective.
[1:06:14] Speaker 4: It changed everything.
[1:06:15] Speaker 2: Yeah. How did you, just going back for a second,
[1:06:19] Speaker 2: how did you win Pat over? Because Pat took you
[1:06:24] Speaker 2: right under his wing.
[1:06:25] Speaker 4: It wasn't for Pat.
[1:06:26] Speaker 2: Right?
[1:06:27] Speaker 4: Yeah. Pat went to Vince and said, here's your next guy.
[1:06:31] Speaker 4: And Vince went, that long hair?
[1:06:33] Speaker 2: But how did you win Pat over?
[1:06:36] Speaker 4: Because... First of all, we hit it off. Right.
[1:06:41] Speaker 2: And how long before? Like at what point in your
[1:06:44] Speaker 2: career did you meet Pat?
[1:06:46] Speaker 4: I met him briefly when we first came in.
[1:06:49] Speaker 2: Okay.
[1:06:50] Speaker 4: Okay. That was just a blip on the screen.
[1:06:54] Speaker 1: And then when I first came here, like in production meetings,
[1:06:56] Speaker 1: I would sit at his table and we would cut up.
[1:06:59] Speaker 4: And we would have fun. You know, Pat's going to
[1:07:02] Speaker 4: cut up. Of course. Either cut up with him or
[1:07:04] Speaker 4: you get caught cutting up with him.
[1:07:06] Speaker 2: Exactly.
[1:07:07] Speaker 4: And we just hit it off as friends.
[1:07:09] Speaker 2: But Pat wouldn't get in trouble.
[1:07:10] Speaker 4: Yeah. And then we started. No, Pat's not getting in trouble. Oh, yeah.
[1:07:14] Speaker 4: I'm always getting in trouble. I can't tell you how
[1:07:17] Speaker 4: much shit I've got trouble for that I didn't do.
[1:07:19] Speaker 4: I wasn't even there. I still remember that you did.
[1:07:22] Speaker 4: I wasn't even there. There's a lot of stuff I
[1:07:24] Speaker 4: didn't get in trouble for that I didn't do. Karma. Yeah.
[1:07:31] Speaker 4: It's a bitch.
[1:07:33] Speaker 1: But we just started trading ideas. I'd always heard that
[1:07:38] Speaker 1: Pat was the greatest at finishes. I started liking finishes
[1:07:42] Speaker 1: early in wrestling. I knew I just wasn't going to wrestle.
[1:07:45] Speaker 1: I knew I was in it for the long haul.
[1:07:47] Speaker 1: And I wanted to learn how to book and do the.
[1:07:53] Speaker 4: The other stuff, promote.
[1:07:54] Speaker 2: Because you loved everything about it.
[1:07:56] Speaker 4: I loved this business from the first time I saw it.
[1:07:59] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:07:59] Speaker 4: And it loved me back. Yeah. Because our business will
[1:08:02] Speaker 4: love you back if you love it.
[1:08:05] Speaker 5: Amen.
[1:08:05] Speaker 4: Our business will be there for you through.
[1:08:07] Speaker 1: All the trials and tribulations. And when you feel that
[1:08:11] Speaker 1: nobody's there for you, the business is right there.
[1:08:14] Speaker 4: Yeah. It's true. It is true. It's very true.
[1:08:18] Speaker 2: It is family.
[1:08:19] Speaker 4: It is. It's very true. That's why, you know. When
[1:08:24] Speaker 4: you lose people, it's so hard. I've lost so many
[1:08:29] Speaker 4: people over the years. At least we're not losing them
[1:08:31] Speaker 4: now for the same reasons we did back in my era.
[1:08:35] Speaker 4: You hardly ever hear somebody fail in a drug test. Right.
[1:08:39] Speaker 4: Or back in my day, it was like, oh, how
[1:08:42] Speaker 4: many times? Yeah. Feather in your caps.
[1:08:51] Speaker 2: Are you ready to hold WWE history in the palm
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[1:10:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just really, as far as getting to losing
[1:10:10] Speaker 1: people and stuff, I'm so glad we're not losing them
[1:10:13] Speaker 1: at the rate we used to lose them because it hurts.
[1:10:17] Speaker 4: It really does. We all think life's going to go
[1:10:20] Speaker 4: on forever, and it's not.
[1:10:22] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[1:10:23] Speaker 4: But enjoy it while it's fucking here.
[1:10:25] Speaker 2: But amen.
[1:10:26] Speaker 4: I am. Right? I am.
[1:10:28] Speaker 2: Enjoy your life.
[1:10:30] Speaker 4: Yes. Because it's a gift.
[1:10:32] Speaker 2: It is a gift.
[1:10:32] Speaker 4: Every day is a gift. Yep. Every day is a gift.
[1:10:37] Speaker 2: It's so crazy. This is very unrelated but related. I
[1:10:41] Speaker 2: was just watching a clip on social this morning and
[1:10:43] Speaker 2: it's Tony Robbins with some guy in a crowd. I
[1:10:47] Speaker 2: guess it's at one of his events. And this poor guy,
[1:10:50] Speaker 2: he's like, looks young in his early 20s, and he's suicidal.
[1:10:55] Speaker 2: And he is just beating himself up. And the reason
[1:10:59] Speaker 2: he's suicidal is because he can't live up to this
[1:11:03] Speaker 2: level of perfection that he holds himself to. And Tony
[1:11:07] Speaker 2: Robbins tries to kind of break him down a little bit,
[1:11:10] Speaker 2: and he's like, is it because of your red shoes?
[1:11:15] Speaker 2: because those are some red shoes. And then, you know,
[1:11:18] Speaker 2: the camera pans and like, and the kid laughs and
[1:11:21] Speaker 2: he goes, see, careful. Now you do that too much.
[1:11:24] Speaker 2: You're going to stick around a little longer, you know?
[1:11:27] Speaker 2: And then he, he says like, you have time and
[1:11:31] Speaker 2: we're never going to live up to perfection. We can
[1:11:33] Speaker 2: always have high standards, but you need to be okay
[1:11:38] Speaker 2: with who you are and where you are in your life. And, Yes,
[1:11:42] Speaker 2: always strive to do the best you can, but don't
[1:11:44] Speaker 2: hammer yourself to the point where you think you shouldn't
[1:11:47] Speaker 2: be here. You know, and so many people struggle. So
[1:11:51] Speaker 2: many people struggle.
[1:11:53] Speaker 4: They do. And, you know, it's funny. I've started to
[1:12:00] Speaker 4: look at life and go, Michael, you won the race. Yeah.
[1:12:09] Speaker 1: Why don't you ever enjoy that? Why don't you say
[1:12:13] Speaker 1: I won? And I guess it's because I won't quit racing.
[1:12:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I get that. You didn't win yet, right?
[1:12:18] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:12:19] Speaker 2: But you're winning.
[1:12:20] Speaker 4: I'm winning, but I mean.
[1:12:22] Speaker 2: It's active.
[1:12:23] Speaker 4: Like finally, it was some time ago. I don't know, six,
[1:12:27] Speaker 4: 12 months ago. And I go, you're doing everything that
[1:12:32] Speaker 4: little boy dreamed of. Everything that you dreamed of, you've done. Smile, motherfucker. Oh,
[1:12:43] Speaker 4: my God.
[1:12:44] Speaker 2: That's the name of your podcast.
[1:12:50] Speaker 1: But I was, I was like, you know, because I
[1:12:54] Speaker 1: take traveling a lot different now. God damn, got to
[1:12:58] Speaker 1: go to Philadelphia and then I've.
[1:13:00] Speaker 4: Got to go to California. And now I go, I'm
[1:13:03] Speaker 4: going to Philadelphia. Yeah. And then I'm going to go
[1:13:06] Speaker 4: to California.
[1:13:06] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[1:13:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's perspective.
[1:13:08] Speaker 4: Perspective.
[1:13:09] Speaker 2: Everything in life is perspective.
[1:13:11] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:13:12] Speaker 1: But it's how you look at things. It's definitely glasses
[1:13:16] Speaker 1: half full.
[1:13:16] Speaker 2: How do you get yourself from, oh, I got to
[1:13:21] Speaker 2: go here to, wow, I get to go here. Is
[1:13:23] Speaker 2: it intentional? Something woke inside of me.
[1:13:26] Speaker 4: Okay.
[1:13:26] Speaker 1: Something woke inside of me and goes– God, you're just
[1:13:30] Speaker 1: lucky you can do it every day.
[1:13:32] Speaker 4: As long as you've been, you should, I should have
[1:13:34] Speaker 4: been dead at 30.
[1:13:34] Speaker 1: There's no doubt. I didn't expect to live past 30.
[1:13:38] Speaker 1: 30's young.
[1:13:38] Speaker 4: Yeah. Not the way I lived.
[1:13:40] Speaker 2: Started at 11. That's true.
[1:13:43] Speaker 4: Yeah. But, you know, shit, I'm 67 and a half.
[1:13:50] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:13:51] Speaker 4: And I've never felt better.
[1:13:52] Speaker 2: Good for you.
[1:13:53] Speaker 4: Or more alive.
[1:13:54] Speaker 2: Good for you. That's awesome.
[1:13:55] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:13:55] Speaker 2: But is it intentional, I guess is my question. Do
[1:13:57] Speaker 2: you catch yourself like, dreading it for a moment and
[1:14:01] Speaker 2: then do you do a self-talk to like get yourself
[1:14:04] Speaker 2: back around yes okay.
[1:14:06] Speaker 1: Like if i if you know before i would just
[1:14:08] Speaker 1: pile on right you know and it's easy to go.
[1:14:11] Speaker 4: Down it just you know oh this and that.
[1:14:15] Speaker 2: And then everything's bad then everything's bad.
[1:14:17] Speaker 4: And then you know then you go that's not that
[1:14:20] Speaker 4: bad i mean god you really make good money and
[1:14:25] Speaker 4: Since you quit doing drugs and drinking, you have this
[1:14:27] Speaker 4: abundance of cash. Dude, I had like two $ 300 bar
[1:14:35] Speaker 4: bills a night. Wow.
[1:14:37] Speaker 5: Damn.
[1:14:37] Speaker 4: That's the low end. A night. Because, you know, I'd
[1:14:40] Speaker 4: get buzzed, and then I went by everybody. Sure, yeah.
[1:14:42] Speaker 4: Found Ric Flair.
[1:14:46] Speaker 2: Yeah, but Ric didn't have the money.
[1:14:47] Speaker 4: No. That's right. Your daddy paid for that.
[1:14:55] Speaker 1: But, you know, it's just, I'm just so thankful that
[1:15:02] Speaker 1: I got this side, that I got to this side.
[1:15:05] Speaker 4: And, you know, if it ends tomorrow, it ends tomorrow.
[1:15:08] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:15:08] Speaker 4: And it's okay.
[1:15:10] Speaker 2: How much do your prayers in the morning and at
[1:15:13] Speaker 2: night help keep you, your mind straight? And did you
[1:15:19] Speaker 2: always pray?
[1:15:20] Speaker 4: No. I always prayed and I always would talk to God,
[1:15:25] Speaker 4: not to the level I do now.
[1:15:28] Speaker 2: And has the conversation changed?
[1:15:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel him making me check myself more than
[1:15:39] Speaker 1: I ever have.
[1:15:40] Speaker 4: Like I'll do things or think about doing something and
[1:15:43] Speaker 4: I'll go, hmm, red flag. Nah, you don't really want
[1:15:50] Speaker 4: to do it that way. Yeah, I do. Well, I
[1:15:53] Speaker 4: said you don't.
[1:15:55] Speaker 1: And I'll get back where I need to be. I'm
[1:16:00] Speaker 1: a cynical son of a bitch with a lot of
[1:16:03] Speaker 1: reason to be cynical. And I'm really, really working hard
[1:16:08] Speaker 1: on changing all that. Because it's easy and it's fun
[1:16:11] Speaker 1: to be cynical and make fun of stuff. And in
[1:16:13] Speaker 1: this business, it's very easy.
[1:16:15] Speaker 4: And to make fun of each other.
[1:16:17] Speaker 2: In any business. In any scenario.
[1:16:19] Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. This business really wins.
[1:16:22] Speaker 2: Well, that's, I mean, there's just a lot of material.
[1:16:26] Speaker 4: And, you know.
[1:16:27] Speaker 2: But you have to want it, right? Going back to.
[1:16:29] Speaker 2: You have to want it. Being sober. You have to
[1:16:32] Speaker 2: want it. You have to want to choose whichever path.
[1:16:34] Speaker 4: You have to give it a chance, too. You know? Like,
[1:16:38] Speaker 4: I would have never known this. I never even considered.
[1:16:41] Speaker 4: Stop drinking? Why? Why? Why? Well, because it's better for you. No,
[1:16:46] Speaker 4: I'm fine.
[1:16:47] Speaker 2: I feel great.
[1:16:48] Speaker 4: I feel great. I fall down. Get right back up.
[1:16:53] Speaker 4: Get right back up.
[1:16:55] Speaker 1: Eventually.
[1:16:56] Speaker 4: Boy, was I falling down. Really? Yeah, my balance. My
[1:16:59] Speaker 4: balance was horrible.
[1:17:02] Speaker 1: From, you know, I had the hip replaced in 20.
[1:17:06] Speaker 1: I had this replaced in 22. I had this replaced
[1:17:10] Speaker 1: in 24. I'm so sick of surgeries.
[1:17:12] Speaker 4: Yeah. And I need more. Really? Yeah. You know what?
[1:17:16] Speaker 4: I'm really sick of the recoveries.
[1:17:17] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:17:18] Speaker 4: The recoveries are the shits. They, they, they always screw
[1:17:23] Speaker 4: my hair up. They do. It ends up falling out and,
[1:17:27] Speaker 4: and I have to end up just like letting it regrow.
[1:17:30] Speaker 4: And I mean, it doesn't all fall out, but it
[1:17:32] Speaker 4: freezes up. I don't know.
[1:17:34] Speaker 2: I asked Dugas about it.
[1:17:36] Speaker 4: Right. Um, and I remember talking to somebody, they said
[1:17:39] Speaker 4: sometimes anesthesia.
[1:17:40] Speaker 2: Can affect your hair, your hair.
[1:17:42] Speaker 4: Huh?
[1:17:43] Speaker 2: Uh, I mean, the recovering drugs can affect it. Antibiotics
[1:17:47] Speaker 2: can affect it.
[1:17:48] Speaker 4: Well, I wasn't recovering at the time. You know, it's funny.
[1:17:54] Speaker 4: I would never take pain medication when I had all
[1:17:56] Speaker 4: those surgeries. They give me Oxy... I was never a
[1:17:58] Speaker 4: pill guy. Yeah. Yeah. No, I like cocaine. But the
[1:18:04] Speaker 4: only reason I like cocaine was so I could keep drinking.
[1:18:06] Speaker 2: So you could wake up a little bit. Yeah.
[1:18:09] Speaker 4: Like, I hated cocaine without drinking. Oh, this is fun.
[1:18:20] Speaker 4: Can I have more? But drinking, you just went from, oh, yeah.
[1:18:26] Speaker 2: Then you were awake and.
[1:18:28] Speaker 4: Yeah, awake and drunk. Yeah. Now at least I'll remember
[1:18:32] Speaker 4: being stupid. But....
[1:18:37] Speaker 2: But so you need more surgery?
[1:18:40] Speaker 4: Oh, I do. Yeah. This shoulder's really bad.
[1:18:43] Speaker 2: Because you were falling down a lot? Or this is
[1:18:45] Speaker 2: just in general.
[1:18:46] Speaker 4: Um, my balance. Okay. So I got on Wagovi about
[1:18:54] Speaker 4: a year and two months ago and I started doing
[1:18:58] Speaker 4: DDP yoga.
[1:18:59] Speaker 2: Okay.
[1:19:00] Speaker 4: And man, I've, I've dropped 50 pounds.
[1:19:03] Speaker 2: I mean, you really do look fantastic.
[1:19:05] Speaker 4: Um, and, um, My mobility is so much better now.
[1:19:12] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:19:13] Speaker 4: So much better. And I don't know. It's not the
[1:19:17] Speaker 4: hardest thing in the world to do, but you get
[1:19:19] Speaker 4: results from it. Right. It's hard at first. Sure. It's
[1:19:22] Speaker 4: very hard at first. But once you get in the routine,
[1:19:26] Speaker 4: you know, I'm betting.
[1:19:27] Speaker 2: And was Dallas working with you directly?
[1:19:29] Speaker 4: Dallas has made me my own, like, work house. Yeah. Like,
[1:19:33] Speaker 4: I'll go to his house.
[1:19:34] Speaker 2: Oh, great.
[1:19:34] Speaker 4: And he'll fill in the work.
[1:19:36] Speaker 2: Another person who has helped us.
[1:19:38] Speaker 4: Oh, my God.
[1:19:39] Speaker 2: A lot of people.
[1:19:40] Speaker 4: You can't count how many people Diamond Dallas Page has helped.
[1:19:43] Speaker 2: And some of the toughest cases.
[1:19:46] Speaker 4: Yes.
[1:19:47] Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, we hope to have him on, too.
[1:19:53] Speaker 4: Oh, you should.
[1:19:53] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:19:54] Speaker 4: I can arrange that for you. Yeah? Yeah. For the
[1:19:56] Speaker 4: right price.
[1:19:59] Speaker 2: Joe is saying yes.
[1:20:00] Speaker 4: Okay. Yeah.
[1:20:02] Speaker 2: He's already booked.
[1:20:02] Speaker 4: I can get Dallas on. He is? Yeah. Okay.
[1:20:04] Speaker 5: Okay.
[1:20:05] Speaker 4: Good. He likes himself.
[1:20:07] Speaker 2: Is it okay for us to talk to Dallas about you?
[1:20:10] Speaker 4: Of course. Okay. All right. You're going to anyway. Yeah, well.
[1:20:15] Speaker 2: Now I have your permission.
[1:20:18] Speaker 1: But, you know, that's been very helpful. You know, I
[1:20:22] Speaker 1: started with the chair workout, and then Dallas got me
[1:20:26] Speaker 1: out of the chair, and then he gave me a
[1:20:28] Speaker 1: workout for balance and a lot for knees, and then–
[1:20:35] Speaker 1: Biceps and triceps. And then he did a back and chest.
[1:20:39] Speaker 4: Workout for me now. So I'm pretty much covered in that.
[1:20:43] Speaker 4: And I don't have to do the weights. I do bands. Yeah.
[1:20:46] Speaker 4: And it's such a difference on my shoulders. Oh, good. Yeah. Yeah.
[1:20:50] Speaker 4: Because my shoulders are horrible. Even the one that got
[1:20:53] Speaker 4: fixed ain't great. It's better than it was. I think
[1:20:56] Speaker 4: my expectation level was way too high for all my surgeries.
[1:21:01] Speaker 4: The only one that really worked for me was my hip.
[1:21:04] Speaker 4: Because it's a lot better. Yeah.
[1:21:05] Speaker 1: Yet I feel the left one's starting to do the
[1:21:07] Speaker 1: little twinges. So that's probably another thing I got to
[1:21:10] Speaker 1: look forward to in a couple years.
[1:21:11] Speaker 2: Bionic man.
[1:21:12] Speaker 4: Might as well be, I guess.
[1:21:15] Speaker 2: But do you rehab? Because the rehab is everything.
[1:21:18] Speaker 4: Pretty much. Now they make you do prehab. Yeah.
[1:21:23] Speaker 1: Because when I got this one done, no, this one,
[1:21:28] Speaker 1: a week before I went in, they called to say
[1:21:30] Speaker 1: that they canceled my surgery.
[1:21:33] Speaker 3: Hmm.
[1:21:34] Speaker 4: And I go, why? And they go, well, you didn't
[1:21:36] Speaker 4: do any prehab. I go, well, you didn't tell me.
[1:21:39] Speaker 4: What do you think I'm going to do? Wake up
[1:21:40] Speaker 4: and go, hey, why don't I just go run down
[1:21:43] Speaker 4: the street and do some prehab?
[1:21:46] Speaker 1: I've been waiting six weeks doing nothing.
[1:21:48] Speaker 4: Why the fuck are you telling me this now? God
[1:21:53] Speaker 4: dang it. The medical profession. Don't get me started, Stephanie.
[1:21:57] Speaker 1: Do it.
[1:21:58] Speaker 4: Them motherfuckers. Yeah. Insurance, please.
[1:22:02] Speaker 1: Oh, insurance.
[1:22:02] Speaker 4: Jump up my ass and fight for air. God damn.
[1:22:08] Speaker 2: Oh, my God. Oh, my God. That is the greatest
[1:22:12] Speaker 2: thing I've ever heard in my life. Jump up my
[1:22:14] Speaker 2: ass and fight for air. Yeah.
[1:22:18] Speaker 4: That's a Michael quote. That is. Do you know one
[1:22:21] Speaker 4: time I had– who was the guy who got fired
[1:22:24] Speaker 4: for the Hillbilly Gym? He was Freddie Prince's buddy. God
[1:22:29] Speaker 4: dang it, I could see him. Foz. The Foz.
[1:22:32] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
[1:22:33] Speaker 4: Yeah. He– At one time, he had a whole book
[1:22:37] Speaker 4: of Michael quotes. And then I forget. Somebody got in
[1:22:41] Speaker 4: trouble or something in HR and somebody on the creative team.
[1:22:44] Speaker 4: I go, erase those.
[1:22:47] Speaker 2: Burn the box.
[1:22:47] Speaker 4: Delete them all. Delete, delete, delete.
[1:22:52] Speaker 2: Jump up my ass. Jump up my ass and fight
[1:22:56] Speaker 2: for air.
[1:22:56] Speaker 4: You're going to remember that. That's a T-shirt.
[1:22:59] Speaker 1: It is.
[1:22:59] Speaker 2: I'm going to say it to my kids tonight.
[1:23:00] Speaker 4: It would sell well. It is.
[1:23:03] Speaker 3: Oh.
[1:23:04] Speaker 2: The kids start fighting. I'm going to be like, jump
[1:23:06] Speaker 2: up my ass and fight for air.
[1:23:08] Speaker 4: It works for everything. Right?
[1:23:09] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:23:09] Speaker 4: It's a game, set, match.
[1:23:10] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:23:11] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:23:12] Speaker 2: I'm not sure who wins in that scenario.
[1:23:14] Speaker 4: I think it's not me.
[1:23:15] Speaker 2: I don't think you do either.
[1:23:16] Speaker 4: Well, probably not.
[1:23:21] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[1:23:22] Speaker 4: Probably not. We'll leave it at that.
[1:23:24] Speaker 2: Depends on how many people are up in there.
[1:23:26] Speaker 4: There's a party going on somewhere. Well, it beats getting
[1:23:35] Speaker 4: shot at.
[1:23:36] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:23:36] Speaker 4: Yeah. I've had that happen plenty of times. Okay.
[1:23:39] Speaker 2: Tell us one of those.
[1:23:41] Speaker 4: We got a lot of riots in Mid-South with the
[1:23:44] Speaker 4: junkyard dog when we blinded him. And thank God for.
[1:23:48] Speaker 1: The cops there. They were great. But the biggest one
[1:23:53] Speaker 1: was in Lake Charles, Louisiana. They would get big water
[1:23:58] Speaker 1: pistols and fill them with liquid plumber.
[1:24:01] Speaker 4: Oh, my God. Really? And they would shoot them in
[1:24:03] Speaker 4: our eyes. Shit.
[1:24:04] Speaker 1: And so one time we– We got in a riot.
[1:24:09] Speaker 1: And in a riot, just so you know, you don't win.
[1:24:12] Speaker 2: No.
[1:24:12] Speaker 4: No, no. The win is if you make it to
[1:24:14] Speaker 4: the dressing room, that's a win.
[1:24:16] Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and it was just the bike racks at
[1:24:19] Speaker 2: that time, right?
[1:24:21] Speaker 4: Yeah, we didn't even have bike racks. No, you didn't.
[1:24:22] Speaker 1: What they had there was like a piece of cow
[1:24:25] Speaker 1: rope from the baby face dressing room was here, the
[1:24:29] Speaker 1: heels was there, and the cow rope would just be there.
[1:24:32] Speaker 1: And so we got in a fight, and we're fighting
[1:24:34] Speaker 1: our way back, and I see Buddy grab his eyes,
[1:24:37] Speaker 1: and he's running.
[1:24:38] Speaker 4: And as he's running, he's screaming. I go, oh, God,
[1:24:40] Speaker 4: somebody sliced his eyes. And then I go, oh, my God,
[1:24:44] Speaker 4: he's going to run right for that rope. Oh, did
[1:24:45] Speaker 4: he clothesline himself? Whoa. Oh, no. And he clotheslined himself. Oh.
[1:24:52] Speaker 1: We got him in the shower, and I swear he
[1:24:55] Speaker 1: couldn't see for like 10 minutes.
[1:24:57] Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
[1:24:58] Speaker 4: We bought the sheriff's there. a case of Jack Daniels
[1:25:03] Speaker 4: the last night because Watts booked us in a lose-or-leave
[1:25:05] Speaker 4: town match. And we're already on Georgia Championship Wrestling, the
[1:25:09] Speaker 4: only national TV at the time.
[1:25:10] Speaker 2: Right.
[1:25:11] Speaker 4: So who do you think's losing?
[1:25:12] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:25:13] Speaker 1: And that night they had extra cops. They had an
[1:25:16] Speaker 1: undercover guy find a guy in the bathroom that bragged
[1:25:19] Speaker 1: he was going.
[1:25:20] Speaker 4: To shoot us. He had a Saturday night special, bullets
[1:25:24] Speaker 4: in Gray Freebird. Holy shit.
[1:25:27] Speaker 1: And by this time, it had gotten so bad, that
[1:25:30] Speaker 1: we had to park our cars at the sheriff's office
[1:25:33] Speaker 1: and they would drive us over and into the arena
[1:25:36] Speaker 1: and drop us off right adjacent, right parallel to the
[1:25:38] Speaker 1: dressing room door. The first time they just dropped us
[1:25:41] Speaker 1: outside the arena, when we came out, all their tires
[1:25:44] Speaker 1: were flattened.
[1:25:45] Speaker 2: Really?
[1:25:46] Speaker 4: Really.
[1:25:47] Speaker 1: Wow.
[1:25:48] Speaker 4: It was wild. It was crazy.
[1:25:50] Speaker 2: Were there ever any bullets fired?
[1:25:53] Speaker 4: No, there's a story that goes around that I was
[1:25:56] Speaker 4: in the ring and a fan came up in New
[1:25:58] Speaker 4: Orleans and had a gun and they had to attack
[1:26:01] Speaker 4: him and stop him. I think I would remember that.
[1:26:05] Speaker 4: I don't recall that.
[1:26:06] Speaker 1: But there's so many myths about the Freebirds that no,
[1:26:12] Speaker 1: that didn't happen. And then there's those that haven't been
[1:26:14] Speaker 1: told that, oh yeah, that happened.
[1:26:15] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:26:16] Speaker 2: And then there are those that you don't remember.
[1:26:17] Speaker 4: There's a lot. Or choose not to. Yeah. Selective memory.
[1:26:23] Speaker 2: Selective.
[1:26:23] Speaker 4: Yeah. That's always, oh no, I don't remember that.
[1:26:26] Speaker 2: I don't know what you're talking about.
[1:26:28] Speaker 4: But it was, yeah, it was dangerous. Um, And, you know,
[1:26:33] Speaker 4: thank God we don't have that now.
[1:26:34] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:26:35] Speaker 4: But that was like a badge of courage you would
[1:26:37] Speaker 4: wear if you'd been in riots.
[1:26:39] Speaker 1: Sure.
[1:26:40] Speaker 4: Yeah, we had a riot. But now I think back, like, God,
[1:26:44] Speaker 4: it's the last thing I want at my show. Yeah, no.
[1:26:46] Speaker 4: All bad. All bad. Right? All bad.
[1:26:49] Speaker 2: There's no good in a riot.
[1:26:50] Speaker 4: No.
[1:26:51] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:26:52] Speaker 4: But it was a good thing when I first broke in. Yeah, well, sure.
[1:26:56] Speaker 4: You had heat. You were over. Yeah.
[1:27:01] Speaker 1: I mean, I told you, when Terry, when we first
[1:27:03] Speaker 1: turned him heel and we were wrestling against Port Chops
[1:27:05] Speaker 1: Cash and King Cobra, and it was definitely a black territory,
[1:27:10] Speaker 1: and they were the top black babyfaces. And we got
[1:27:13] Speaker 1: trapped in the National Guard Army in Gulfport, Mississippi, by
[1:27:18] Speaker 1: the fans who were trying to break in and get us,
[1:27:20] Speaker 1: and they had to get the National Guard to get
[1:27:22] Speaker 1: us out.
[1:27:23] Speaker 4: Wow.
[1:27:24] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:27:25] Speaker 2: The National Guard?
[1:27:26] Speaker 4: Yes. Because, well, it's Gulfport, Mississippi. They had like, what,
[1:27:29] Speaker 4: five cops? Yeah. That wasn't going to handle these people.
[1:27:34] Speaker 2: But, wow.
[1:27:35] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:27:37] Speaker 2: I don't know that many people can say that they
[1:27:38] Speaker 2: had the National Guard had to come get them out
[1:27:41] Speaker 2: of a riot.
[1:27:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm sure there's been more scenarios than that
[1:27:44] Speaker 1: that I'm just not recollecting right now.
[1:27:47] Speaker 2: You'll leave here and call me.
[1:27:49] Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, there was this one time.
[1:27:52] Speaker 2: And then there was this other time. Can't believe I
[1:27:54] Speaker 2: didn't think of this one.
[1:27:55] Speaker 4: Boy, the junkyard dog was over. Yeah. I mean, he
[1:27:58] Speaker 4: was over. He was such a great guy.
[1:28:02] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:28:02] Speaker 4: He really was. Sylvester was such a great guy.
[1:28:06] Speaker 1: We met before all this happened by a guy that
[1:28:09] Speaker 1: brought me in named California Hippie Mike Boyette. And we
[1:28:13] Speaker 1: met at his place in Pensacola one time where Sylvester
[1:28:16] Speaker 1: was just coming through.
[1:28:18] Speaker 4: And then lo and behold. Here, a year and a
[1:28:21] Speaker 4: half later, I'm 21 years old, wrestling the Junkyard Dog
[1:28:25] Speaker 4: in the main event of the Superdome.
[1:28:27] Speaker 2: Wow.
[1:28:29] Speaker 4: Wow. That's crazy.
[1:28:31] Speaker 2: That's amazing. That's amazing.
[1:28:34] Speaker 4: It is, because it was just two years before that,
[1:28:37] Speaker 4: I just broke in.
[1:28:38] Speaker 2: And what kind of... house was in the Superdome?
[1:28:42] Speaker 1: It was the biggest one they had at the time.
[1:28:44] Speaker 1: That attendance record was not broken until Daniel Bryan and
[1:28:49] Speaker 1: WrestleMania 30.
[1:28:49] Speaker 4: Oh, wow. But Dog was over. Yeah. He was over.
[1:28:55] Speaker 4: I mean, we were over two. People wanted to kill us.
[1:28:57] Speaker 1: Right.
[1:28:58] Speaker 2: Clearly.
[1:28:58] Speaker 1: Literally.
[1:28:59] Speaker 4: Yes. Well, we did this.
[1:29:01] Speaker 1: It was really well done, the angle, because I had
[1:29:03] Speaker 1: an out. Like when I put the hair cream that
[1:29:06] Speaker 1: was the blinding instrument in dog's eyes, I was trying
[1:29:10] Speaker 1: to put it in his partner's, and he spun me around.
[1:29:13] Speaker 4: So I made it look like it could have been
[1:29:15] Speaker 4: an accident.
[1:29:16] Speaker 1: But the first vignette they had, he's blinded, and his
[1:29:19] Speaker 1: wife was actually pregnant at the time. And they were
[1:29:22] Speaker 1: having their first baby. And so they're doing this vignette
[1:29:24] Speaker 1: and he goes, and here's my daughter. And then his partner,
[1:29:27] Speaker 1: Buck Robey, takes his hand and goes, she's over here, dog.
[1:29:31] Speaker 1: I remember the chills going up my back watching that
[1:29:36] Speaker 1: on TV.
[1:29:37] Speaker 4: I looked at Terry and Buddy and go, we're fucked. Wow.
[1:29:45] Speaker 4: And boy, it was heavy. It was heavy. But he
[1:29:50] Speaker 4: went on.
[1:29:50] Speaker 1: We were lucky to work with some of the Greatest
[1:29:53] Speaker 1: baby faces, most over baby faces got to work. Tommy Rich,
[1:29:57] Speaker 1: Ted DiBiase, the Von Eriks. Yeah.
[1:30:00] Speaker 4: You know, they were over like Rover. Yeah.
[1:30:04] Speaker 2: And you were telling the story on Taker's Pod as
[1:30:08] Speaker 2: well about just seeing what you could do when you
[1:30:11] Speaker 2: went down there, when you went to Dallas.
[1:30:12] Speaker 4: I went for one shot. Yeah. Yeah. I went for
[1:30:15] Speaker 4: one shot as a favor to Gary Hart.
[1:30:17] Speaker 2: Because you didn't think it was— Nobody.
[1:30:19] Speaker 4: Was going to Dallas.
[1:30:20] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:30:21] Speaker 4: Because all you heard was, oh, Fritzie just pushes his boys.
[1:30:24] Speaker 4: And it was basically a place for you to go
[1:30:27] Speaker 4: retire or, you know, the twilight of your career.
[1:30:30] Speaker 2: Put out to pasture.
[1:30:31] Speaker 4: Yeah, really.
[1:30:33] Speaker 1: And when I went to that first shot in San Antonio,
[1:30:35] Speaker 1: they had like a $ 50, 000 gate, which.
[1:30:37] Speaker 4: Was unheard of in 1982. Yeah. And I seen all
[1:30:42] Speaker 4: these people that were going nuts. I called Terry that
[1:30:45] Speaker 4: night and said, yeah, you got to get down here.
[1:30:47] Speaker 4: Give you notice.
[1:30:47] Speaker 1: I said, we'll befriend them. We'll turn on them and
[1:30:51] Speaker 1: we'll print money. And it went just like that.
[1:30:53] Speaker 2: And you saw it. You knew immediately.
[1:30:57] Speaker 4: Well, there was three of them. Buddy was in the
[1:30:59] Speaker 4: oil fields at the time. He was out of wrestling.
[1:31:03] Speaker 4: And we had a shot in Lawton, Oklahoma. And that's
[1:31:06] Speaker 4: where he was in the oil fields. We had him
[1:31:07] Speaker 4: come by and see us. We kidnapped him and took
[1:31:10] Speaker 4: him back to Dallas. Literally. Took his wife's car, took
[1:31:14] Speaker 4: him back to Dallas, and he was working the next day.
[1:31:18] Speaker 2: That's great.
[1:31:20] Speaker 4: We never did anything like normal. Never.
[1:31:24] Speaker 2: But again, you had the vision, right? And you knew.
[1:31:28] Speaker 2: You knew. Not everybody also knew. really likes to be
[1:31:33] Speaker 2: a heel.
[1:31:34] Speaker 4: No. Most people don't.
[1:31:36] Speaker 2: Most people don't.
[1:31:37] Speaker 4: People need to be cheered. I need it to be
[1:31:39] Speaker 4: hated like people need it to be cheered.
[1:31:43] Speaker 2: So interesting.
[1:31:45] Speaker 4: I just enjoyed it.
[1:31:46] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:31:47] Speaker 4: It was such a natural for me.
[1:31:52] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:31:52] Speaker 4: You've been there. You've hated me on numerous occasions.
[1:31:55] Speaker 2: No, I've never hated you, Michael. I've never hated you.
[1:32:00] Speaker 4: You hated my ways.
[1:32:01] Speaker 3: No.
[1:32:02] Speaker 4: Well, you had every right to.
[1:32:04] Speaker 1: No. No.
[1:32:05] Speaker 4: But I did.
[1:32:06] Speaker 1: I used that as motivation. I used it early on.
[1:32:11] Speaker 1: You know, like, I'm really happy to take a look
[1:32:15] Speaker 1: back at everybody and.
[1:32:16] Speaker 4: Go, ha-ha, fuck you. I made it. You didn't. How'd
[1:32:26] Speaker 4: that work out for you?
[1:32:27] Speaker 2: How'd that work out for you?
[1:32:28] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:32:29] Speaker 2: Well, I always hated... I mean, again, here I'm using
[1:32:33] Speaker 2: the word hate, and I hate the word hate. But
[1:32:36] Speaker 2: the way the business was judged, right? Like, when I
[1:32:39] Speaker 2: was growing up.
[1:32:40] Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
[1:32:40] Speaker 2: You know, and people would, there was such a stigma
[1:32:44] Speaker 2: associated with professional wrestling.
[1:32:47] Speaker 4: Yeah. Or even if you watched it.
[1:32:49] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:32:50] Speaker 4: You watched that.
[1:32:51] Speaker 2: Right? Like you were seen in a different way.
[1:32:54] Speaker 4: I'm so happy that I lived long enough to see
[1:32:56] Speaker 4: it starting to get the respect it deserves for the
[1:32:59] Speaker 4: art that it is.
[1:33:00] Speaker 2: Because it is.
[1:33:01] Speaker 4: It is such an art. What those performers do.
[1:33:05] Speaker 2: It's performance art. It absolutely is.
[1:33:06] Speaker 4: It's performance art, what they put their bodies through, what
[1:33:10] Speaker 4: they will do to make the audience happy.
[1:33:13] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:33:14] Speaker 4: Anything.
[1:33:15] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:33:17] Speaker 4: Anything. Yep. And it's finally now being recognized. You know,
[1:33:22] Speaker 4: it's more of an art form now than it was, okay,
[1:33:27] Speaker 4: in my opinion, because you have better athletes, you have
[1:33:31] Speaker 4: better people. Yeah. You know, we had great athletes in
[1:33:34] Speaker 4: my time. And we had some great people. You know,
[1:33:41] Speaker 4: everybody had their demons in.
[1:33:43] Speaker 2: Everybody has their demons now.
[1:33:45] Speaker 4: Yeah, but then you could admit it. Because back in
[1:33:49] Speaker 4: the 80s, it wasn't say no. It was say yes.
[1:33:53] Speaker 4: And I did.
[1:33:53] Speaker 2: To everything.
[1:33:56] Speaker 4: Every chance I got. Give it to Mikey, he'll eat it.
[1:33:59] Speaker 2: So let's... Let's wrap with perspective. Because here you are now,
[1:34:07] Speaker 2: 67 and a half.
[1:34:08] Speaker 4: Yep.
[1:34:10] Speaker 2: And while you don't reflect much, I think you do,
[1:34:16] Speaker 2: you have changed your perspective. You have grown your perspective
[1:34:20] Speaker 2: throughout time. And not just in terms of the business
[1:34:25] Speaker 2: and the talent of today, but in terms of life.
[1:34:29] Speaker 2: What are some of your Biggest lessons, what can you
[1:34:36] Speaker 2: impart to the audience that, you know, could help a
[1:34:40] Speaker 2: young person struggling or at any age, somebody who wants
[1:34:45] Speaker 2: to live their dream and just isn't sure how, you know?
[1:34:50] Speaker 1: Well, first of all, if you're talking about you want
[1:34:53] Speaker 1: to get into the industry as a performer, you know,
[1:34:57] Speaker 1: now there's tons.
[1:34:58] Speaker 4: Of schools out there.
[1:35:00] Speaker 2: But outside of wrestling.
[1:35:02] Speaker 4: Outside of wrestling? Yeah. How would I give advice for life?
[1:35:05] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:35:09] Speaker 1: You have to believe in yourself first and foremost. If
[1:35:14] Speaker 1: you do not believe in yourself, how do you expect
[1:35:17] Speaker 1: anybody else to? If I come to your shoe store
[1:35:23] Speaker 1: to buy a pair of shoes and you go, this.
[1:35:25] Speaker 4: Might look good on you. Yeah.
[1:35:28] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[1:35:29] Speaker 4: Some people like this brand. No. Yeah. That's not going
[1:35:34] Speaker 4: to work.
[1:35:35] Speaker 1: So you got to believe in yourself and not bullshit
[1:35:39] Speaker 1: people into believing in you.
[1:35:41] Speaker 4: You believe in yourself.
[1:35:43] Speaker 1: And that may take some trepidation and some trials. It
[1:35:46] Speaker 1: won't happen right away.
[1:35:48] Speaker 4: But once you get that in your back pocket, then
[1:35:52] Speaker 4: you can start selling people on you.
[1:35:54] Speaker 1: And you have to be all in. And never want
[1:35:58] Speaker 1: to give up. And never have people influence you. Or
[1:36:02] Speaker 1: try not to.
[1:36:03] Speaker 4: I say never. That's impossible. Try not to have people
[1:36:08] Speaker 4: steer you away. Because people will try to steer you
[1:36:10] Speaker 4: away from your dream. Because.
[1:36:13] Speaker 1: Well for a plethora of reasons. A lot of people
[1:36:16] Speaker 1: steer you away from your dream. Even some of your
[1:36:18] Speaker 1: best friends. Because they don't have it within themselves. To
[1:36:21] Speaker 1: chase their dream. And it bothers them.
[1:36:26] Speaker 4: And they. I don't think they intensely... They can't relate.
[1:36:31] Speaker 4: Can't relate.
[1:36:31] Speaker 2: They can't relate.
[1:36:32] Speaker 4: See, there we go.
[1:36:32] Speaker 1: We're going back to relating again. So I think you really,
[1:36:38] Speaker 1: really have to believe in yourself. You have to be
[1:36:40] Speaker 1: all into the do or die, pretty much. Do or die.
[1:36:46] Speaker 1: And this is one thing I'm not good at, is
[1:36:49] Speaker 1: enjoy your achievements along the way.
[1:36:53] Speaker 4: You know, and....
[1:36:56] Speaker 1: I'm not saying everybody has to be sober. Because some
[1:37:00] Speaker 1: people can drink and they're good with it. I'm just
[1:37:02] Speaker 1: not one of those people.
[1:37:04] Speaker 4: Let's go have a drink. Fuck that. Let's go get shit-faced.
[1:37:11] Speaker 2: You were doing so good with believing in yourself. Let's
[1:37:15] Speaker 2: stay there.
[1:37:16] Speaker 4: No, I'm able to do that now.
[1:37:17] Speaker 2: Right.
[1:37:18] Speaker 4: But I still have to work at it.
[1:37:20] Speaker 2: Yeah. It's a constant work in progress, right?
[1:37:24] Speaker 4: It is definitely a work in progress. And you know what?
[1:37:27] Speaker 1: This is a saying they have in AA is that
[1:37:30] Speaker 1: when you get sober, the good thing is you get
[1:37:33] Speaker 1: your feelings back. And when you get sober, the bad
[1:37:37] Speaker 1: things is you get your feelings back. Because at first,
[1:37:41] Speaker 1: I'm just starting to be okay with this, where I
[1:37:44] Speaker 1: would feel for people I didn't even know or see,
[1:37:47] Speaker 1: and I'd be like, oh, God, they're never going to
[1:37:49] Speaker 1: see what I've seen. They're never going to be able
[1:37:52] Speaker 1: to do that. And then I have to go, well, Michael,
[1:37:55] Speaker 1: they've never gone to the lengths that you've gone to
[1:37:58] Speaker 1: go where you've gone. And then I have these internal
[1:38:01] Speaker 1: struggles where I'm fighting with myself.
[1:38:03] Speaker 2: Who says you don't process?
[1:38:08] Speaker 4: And then I'm learning that you get what you pay for,
[1:38:15] Speaker 4: you get what you put in, and you can't feel
[1:38:18] Speaker 4: sorry for everybody that didn't put in enough to get
[1:38:20] Speaker 4: what they wanted.
[1:38:21] Speaker 2: Yep.
[1:38:22] Speaker 4: But that was a big deal for me at first
[1:38:24] Speaker 4: because I would tell my therapist and my counselor, I
[1:38:27] Speaker 4: do not like liking people.
[1:38:30] Speaker 1: Because I don't like people. I don't trust people as
[1:38:32] Speaker 1: a whole. I love animals and dogs.
[1:38:36] Speaker 4: I trust them. But you know. It was funny. And
[1:38:42] Speaker 4: I'm getting a handle on it. The one thing I guess.
[1:38:48] Speaker 4: You know. You have to really feel that.
[1:38:57] Speaker 1: No matter what anybody else tells you, that they're wrong
[1:39:00] Speaker 1: and you're right. And I know that kind of flies
[1:39:05] Speaker 1: in the face of a lot of advice you'll get.
[1:39:09] Speaker 1: My advice may not work for everybody because I came
[1:39:13] Speaker 1: from a.
[1:39:14] Speaker 4: Really, if I made it, anybody can make it. Yeah. Anybody.
[1:39:19] Speaker 4: I had no chance. I had no family. All I
[1:39:22] Speaker 4: had was drive, ambition, and I had somebody upstairs. That
[1:39:26] Speaker 4: was my plan.
[1:39:29] Speaker 1: So if you include all those elements, I think you
[1:39:31] Speaker 1: have a better chance.
[1:39:34] Speaker 2: Amen.
[1:39:35] Speaker 1: Amen.
[1:39:37] Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on.
[1:39:39] Speaker 4: Thank you for the opportunity.
[1:39:40] Speaker 2: And thank you for being you. And I love you
[1:39:42] Speaker 2: to death, Michael.
[1:39:43] Speaker 4: And I love you more. And we never talked about
[1:39:45] Speaker 4: the movie, but that's okay. Oh, shit.
[1:39:46] Speaker 2: Let's talk about the movie.
[1:39:51] Speaker 4: Yeah. Okay.
[1:39:53] Speaker 2: Okay. Let's talk about the movie.
[1:39:54] Speaker 4: Okay.
[1:39:55] Speaker 2: Tell us your favorite part about it.
[1:39:57] Speaker 4: When it was done. No. It was interesting.
[1:40:02] Speaker 2: And is Hollywood a future for you? Because you play
[1:40:06] Speaker 2: an awesome.
[1:40:07] Speaker 4: Well, getting me to play an asshole isn't really a stretch.
[1:40:10] Speaker 2: It's so fun, though.
[1:40:11] Speaker 4: It is fun. How fun were you? Oh, my God.
[1:40:14] Speaker 2: Riveting.
[1:40:17] Speaker 4: I didn't get a lot of direction, but they were
[1:40:19] Speaker 4: very understanding. They let me ad-lib a lot. Yeah, you're natural.
[1:40:29] Speaker 1: And I was very thankful and grateful for that. It
[1:40:31] Speaker 1: was quite the experience. Probably more for them than me.
[1:40:39] Speaker 2: And it's yet a new medium, right?
[1:40:41] Speaker 4: It is a new medium.
[1:40:43] Speaker 2: Super short, sort of snackable bites.
[1:40:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand that they release like 90-second clips each day,
[1:40:51] Speaker 1: and this.
[1:40:52] Speaker 4: Is big with housewives.
[1:40:53] Speaker 1: Yes.
[1:40:54] Speaker 4: I've always been big with housewives.
[1:40:57] Speaker 2: No secret there.
[1:41:01] Speaker 4: Actually, with unwed mothers, just helping them get their start. Yeah,
[1:41:09] Speaker 4: I say all the wrong stuff.
[1:41:10] Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's great. It's great. But so, Joe, why
[1:41:13] Speaker 2: don't you tell us about the format?
[1:41:14] Speaker 5: Yeah, so for this one specifically, Agent of Shadows, which.
[1:41:19] Speaker 2: You're in, We partnered with Real Shorts.
[1:41:22] Speaker 5: Real Shorts, yeah, it's a partnership that we're now involved with.
[1:41:25] Speaker 5: 64 episodes, 64 mini episodes that are a minute to
[1:41:30] Speaker 5: two minutes long. In total, I sat down and watched
[1:41:33] Speaker 5: the whole thing just.
[1:41:34] Speaker 4: Right in a row.
[1:41:34] Speaker 2: Because you can't help it, right?
[1:41:35] Speaker 5: Because it leaves you on a cliffhanger with every reel
[1:41:40] Speaker 5: that you're watching. And I have to say, from my
[1:41:44] Speaker 5: watch of it, your, your performance is like, you blow
[1:41:48] Speaker 5: everybody out.
[1:41:48] Speaker 2: Of the water, man.
[1:41:49] Speaker 4: You are so good. You are so good. How could
[1:41:52] Speaker 4: you not? That's what I do. I don't know anything else. Um, and,
[1:41:59] Speaker 4: and thank you for the compliments. It really just what,
[1:42:02] Speaker 4: I don't know. It was just me. I got, I
[1:42:04] Speaker 4: was very lucky to share the screen with a lot
[1:42:06] Speaker 4: of our talent.
[1:42:07] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:42:07] Speaker 4: Hank and Tank, Drew, um, Ethan, he's great. Yeah. Natural.
[1:42:12] Speaker 4: Ethan's a natural. He really is. It was a good time.
[1:42:19] Speaker 1: It really was. It happened quick. I found out something, too.
[1:42:25] Speaker 1: Not the athletic director, the AD. The assistant director, they
[1:42:29] Speaker 1: yell a lot. And it got to a point where
[1:42:33] Speaker 1: I go, you know, if you yell at me one
[1:42:36] Speaker 1: more time, I'm going to fucking yell back at you.
[1:42:40] Speaker 4: Yes.
[1:42:42] Speaker 2: And they stopped yelling?
[1:42:43] Speaker 4: Then somebody explained to me, no, that's his job. And
[1:42:49] Speaker 4: I went, okay.
[1:42:51] Speaker 2: Let him go, Michael. Let him go.
[1:42:53] Speaker 4: But if he yells at me one more time. And
[1:42:57] Speaker 4: usually the yelling was because people were noisy. Right, right.
[1:43:00] Speaker 4: And they're getting ready to shoot something. Like Kusama. No,
[1:43:05] Speaker 4: it was fun. You know, I hope it opens up something.
[1:43:08] Speaker 2: So, yeah, what do you think about, you know, again, right,
[1:43:11] Speaker 2: it's evolution of the media business now. And here we
[1:43:15] Speaker 2: have yet another format, the super short form.
[1:43:18] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:43:19] Speaker 2: And you have to download the app for anybody interested.
[1:43:21] Speaker 2: It's real short, so you download the app.
[1:43:23] Speaker 3: Yep.
[1:43:24] Speaker 2: And is this going to be the wave of the future?
[1:43:27] Speaker 4: Yeah. It seems to be. Well, come on. Who are
[1:43:30] Speaker 4: we bullshitting? If WWE got involved, there's something there. Where
[1:43:35] Speaker 4: there's smoke, there's fire.
[1:43:37] Speaker 1: All right.
[1:43:37] Speaker 4: And I understand we're partnering with Real Shorts.
[1:43:40] Speaker 1: So, you know, I think it must be the new
[1:43:46] Speaker 1: route to go, if you will.
[1:43:48] Speaker 2: Because WWE has always led the charge.
[1:43:51] Speaker 4: Always.
[1:43:52] Speaker 2: Always, right?
[1:43:53] Speaker 4: You know that.
[1:43:53] Speaker 2: Pay-per-view.
[1:43:54] Speaker 4: I mean, Vince was talking about a network before, I think,
[1:43:57] Speaker 4: streaming was even really talked about.
[1:43:59] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, no, for sure.
[1:44:00] Speaker 4: You know?
[1:44:01] Speaker 2: And then, well, yeah, I mean, it really started right,
[1:44:05] Speaker 2: first there was closed circuit.
[1:44:06] Speaker 4: Yep.
[1:44:07] Speaker 2: And pay-per-view, WWE's largely attributed, you know, with the advent
[1:44:13] Speaker 2: of pay-per-view.
[1:44:13] Speaker 4: Made it happen.
[1:44:14] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:44:16] Speaker 2: Because you had to have a reason.
[1:44:17] Speaker 4: I don't think if you didn't have a WrestleMania, you
[1:44:20] Speaker 4: wouldn't have the New Kids on the Block concert that
[1:44:22] Speaker 4: broke the record. Mm-hmm. Because nobody's got the balls to
[1:44:28] Speaker 4: start it. Right? Everybody's got the balls to jump on
[1:44:31] Speaker 4: the wagon.
[1:44:32] Speaker 2: He never wanted to be ahead of the curve. He
[1:44:35] Speaker 2: always wanted to be slightly ahead of the curve. But
[1:44:38] Speaker 2: he didn't want to be so far ahead that people
[1:44:40] Speaker 2: didn't understand what was going on.
[1:44:41] Speaker 4: Right.
[1:44:42] Speaker 2: But he just needed to be slightly ahead of the curve.
[1:44:45] Speaker 2: Social media.
[1:44:46] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:44:47] Speaker 2: I mean, that was, he saw that before anybody else.
[1:44:50] Speaker 2: And I remember because I was in charge of digital
[1:44:53] Speaker 2: and social at the time. And I had been at
[1:44:55] Speaker 2: a conference and come back and I said, oh, they
[1:44:57] Speaker 2: said it was really interesting that it wasn't, you know,
[1:45:00] Speaker 2: 100 percent of one person's job. It was one percent
[1:45:04] Speaker 2: of 100 percent of the people's jobs. And he said, no,
[1:45:08] Speaker 2: it's 100 percent of 100 percent. And it was like
[1:45:12] Speaker 2: everything became about social media. And then all the department
[1:45:15] Speaker 2: heads had to report back what their departments were doing
[1:45:18] Speaker 2: in social media. People hated it because they had no idea.
[1:45:21] Speaker 2: They were like, what does my job have to do
[1:45:23] Speaker 2: with social media?
[1:45:24] Speaker 4: I remember when he put Michael Cole in charge of
[1:45:26] Speaker 4: social media. That's the only thing he didn't give me.
[1:45:33] Speaker 2: And then, yeah, but your social media gets wiped in
[1:45:35] Speaker 2: the movie. But then, yes, the streaming, the network. We
[1:45:41] Speaker 2: were one of the first.
[1:45:42] Speaker 4: Yes. Right?
[1:45:43] Speaker 2: There were only three big ones at the time. And
[1:45:46] Speaker 2: we were, it was Hulu, Netflix, and WWE.
[1:45:50] Speaker 4: This company always leads the way.
[1:45:52] Speaker 2: Yeah. So maybe Real Shorts.
[1:45:54] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:45:55] Speaker 2: Is another leader.
[1:45:56] Speaker 4: I'm waiting on my Oscar in March. It's coming. There's
[1:46:01] Speaker 4: your character. Yeah, I know, Joe. Where did you get
[1:46:05] Speaker 4: this fucking guy? You don't think I know my own character?
[1:46:09] Speaker 2: Careful, he's going to start yelling.
[1:46:11] Speaker 4: Come on, Michael. You know I'm loud and boisterous. People go...
[1:46:18] Speaker 4: At work, they go, you're yelling. And I go, you
[1:46:20] Speaker 4: ain't heard me yell.
[1:46:21] Speaker 2: I'm talking. I'm just getting warmed up.
[1:46:25] Speaker 4: Right. All right. All right. Thank you. I love you.
[1:46:29] Speaker 2: Thank you. I love you.
[1:46:30] Speaker 4: Okay. Thanks, Elise.
[1:46:32] Speaker 1: Thank you.
[1:46:32] Speaker 4: Everybody. I appreciate it.
[1:46:34] Speaker 2: All right.
[1:46:37] Speaker 4: I'm going to get high.

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