# Nico Paz Sale, Real Madrid Transfers

An episode of [The Real Deal: A Real Madrid Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1807821669), 30 Jun 2026, 35 min.

Audio: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/APO2571389486.mp3

Jarod Hector and Siddharth Ramsundar discuss the sale of Nico Paz. Is moving off him coming from Mourinho, the club, or both? Who else should be signed to complete the squad? How could Bernardo Silva be platformed right now to help you control games? How will next season look under Mourinho?

## Transcript

[1:00] Hello and welcome to the Real Deal of Real Madrid podcast,
[1:03] with me Gerard Hector, joined by Sid.
[1:05] How are you, Sir? Good, good.
[1:07] Talking a little bit about our Real Madrid signings today and
[1:11] our summit are coming up. So we already did a
[1:13] transformation podcast last week.
[1:15] Check it out. But to follow up since then,
[1:18] Nico Paz looks like he's going to be sold for 60 million to
[1:22] Cuomo. And you know, I think.
[1:25] It's a done deal. OK, Yeah, it looks like a done
[1:27] deal. I don't think we've received the
[1:29] cash. I would, I think we're supposed
[1:31] to sue him because the idea is that we book Nico passes 60
[1:35] million profit into 2526 as a sale on the books we get him to
[1:40] Como. Now I just want to address 1 of
[1:43] the big criticisms of this transfer a lot of people are
[1:45] talking about, which is that, you know, we're going to sell
[1:49] him for 60 this year. And then we have a buyback
[1:51] clause for 80, which essentially means we're going to be spending
[1:56] more money than we get back, like essential loan.
[1:59] And you know, Donna Manchu on Twitter has pointed out it's a
[2:02] 33% loan, like with interest, you could say like a loan with
[2:05] 33% interest. I don't know though, because on
[2:08] the other hand, Jorge Picon, a Riometer journalist, pointed out
[2:12] that the 60 million would get booked entirely into our
[2:16] profits, like a whole 60 million.
[2:18] But when we buy him back, it would be amortized across the
[2:21] cost of his salary. So if it's like five year deal
[2:24] and like 10 million a year contract, it will be 130 / 6 or
[2:28] 5 S 26,000,000 a year on our books.
[2:31] And so you book 60 million profit this year and you only
[2:34] take that loss over the course of two, maybe three years.
[2:38] So kind of just, you know, obviously looking for some cash
[2:41] to finance more signings today. What are your thoughts on that?
[2:45] I personally feel like Nico Paz when I, I know he was one of the
[2:48] best midfielders in Syria, but I was surprised his statistical
[2:52] profile didn't pop as much as I thought it would.
[2:54] And I was just from that moment on, I was thinking, are we going
[2:58] to keep it? You know it's tough, right?
[3:01] Because the question is where would he slot in based on the
[3:06] current players we have right now?
[3:07] And if he's going to leave Como, he would ostensibly want to
[3:12] leave to have a defined role in playing time at Madrid, right?
[3:17] Why am I going to leave a place where I start?
[3:19] And by the way, they qualify for Champions League.
[3:20] So he's going to be in Champions League next year.
[3:22] To go to a place where I'm going to sit on the bench and not know
[3:24] what kind of playing time I'm going to get, That's that.
[3:26] That's the first thing, right? Second thing being, yes, I think
[3:29] statistically, I think two years in a row he was best midfielder
[3:33] in Syria certainly was last year.
[3:36] I think he has like anybody else, right?
[3:40] Like he has peaks and valleys. He's not quite a feast or famine
[3:45] guy, but there are moments where like he's kind of more on a
[3:48] heater than other times. From a playing, playing
[3:52] perspective. I have not seen much of him with
[3:54] Argentina in the World Cup. So I don't know how much minutes
[3:57] he's getting and how he's playing with them.
[4:00] I mentioned in another episode about how Arta with the
[4:02] increased playing time, right, he's starting to sort of feel a
[4:05] little bit. And I wonder for a player like
[4:06] Nico, it's like, hey man, now it's, you know, two straight
[4:09] years of heavy club minutes now, potentially country minutes,
[4:13] right? Like how is he reacting to that?
[4:15] How is he adapting to that change?
[4:18] I do like him statistically from a profile perspective for Real
[4:22] Madrid, if only he is a left footed player, right?
[4:27] So we have a, we have a situation, we have a bunch of
[4:31] right footed dominant players, right?
[4:32] So if you could move him to that left hand side of the midfield,
[4:36] would that be something we could take advantage of?
[4:38] Well, he's played 57 minutes for against Iceland, 60 against
[4:42] Jordan. And I I will say I got to eat
[4:43] crow on that stats take because the stats look better than I
[4:46] realized. Like 86 percentile open play,
[4:49] expected goals assisted 88 percentile for expected threat
[4:52] from pass 90th percentile progressive passes, 67th
[4:56] percentile progressive carries, 67th percentile progressive
[5:00] receptions. So good stuff.
[5:02] And then still 93rd percentile for passes.
[5:05] Yeah. He's completed, he's very good
[5:08] like I, I think his profile would fit well for us.
[5:10] And 98th percentile for high defensive actions and tackle
[5:14] attempts, which is and 90th percentile aerial success.
[5:17] So this guy can very much win deals.
[5:19] But yeah, I think he's looking at Jude in midfield, probably
[5:21] thinking like, I don't how am I going to fight with Jude and
[5:24] Arda for the same positions? Well.
[5:26] Here's the question. They're both left footed, him
[5:29] and Arda, but they're kind of, they are very different players.
[5:34] They are, I honestly think hot my I honestly like I think art
[5:39] deck could work and I think there are scenarios where he
[5:41] works, but I just think Art de this is going to be like an
[5:45] Odegard or someone who plays for a good team and helps them get
[5:49] to the next level. But I don't know if he's going
[5:51] to start for Real Madrid for 5-10 years and just win titles.
[5:55] Whether we're actually competing for those titles is a different
[5:57] story, but I don't know if he's like that type of player because
[6:01] like Nico I think can turn better with the ball.
[6:04] I think he's a better athlete, better at duels.
[6:07] He's both. Bigger.
[6:08] He's also just bigger. Yeah.
[6:09] And I think he might have more market value.
[6:12] I don't know if Arta is going to get you 60 million that easily
[6:14] on the market, even though his pops off so much statistically
[6:18] and you know, I'll bring up his stats in a SEC.
[6:20] But yeah, I think that's where I don't know if this is Mourinho
[6:24] sanctioned where it's like, hey, get me an older midfielder.
[6:28] Like screw this kid. Like no more kids, Just get me
[6:30] some older players. Get me Bernardo.
[6:32] Sell Nico if you have to, get me Alicia and Enzo.
[6:35] Or if it's the club saying, hey, like we can get more money for
[6:39] Nico pals than we can for Ardo. Sell them now and finance what
[6:42] we need to push our legislation threw under Paris.
[6:45] I just can't tell if it's club or coach driven.
[6:47] Yeah, there's the other signings like Connate I think could be
[6:51] either, but Cocorello and Dumfries were friendly.
[6:53] Coach driven. Yeah Yep.
[6:55] This is the one I don't know about because I feel like
[6:57] Bernardo could have been a good signing even under another coach
[7:00] like. Yeah, what I worry about, so
[7:02] it's funny, we talk about Bernardo in comparison with or
[7:06] in tandem with the Nikko situation was the signing of
[7:11] Bernardo in a whoops, A2 year deal.
[7:13] Did that in many ways sort of facilitate the sale of Nico Paz?
[7:17] Right. Because it's like, well, I
[7:18] already have Bernardo, who Jose probably will trust over Nico
[7:22] anyway and play more. So it's like, well, that's the
[7:24] case. Why is he coming back here to
[7:26] sit on the bench when he could be starting at Como and playing
[7:28] Champions League? That was probably part of it and
[7:30] then also the cash to facilitate Cucarella.
[7:32] It's like you, you know, it's the same fee which can't, can't
[7:35] be lost on us. Like even if you're not sure
[7:38] because we we don't know if we're going to get Alise or Enzo
[7:40] yet like that. It could all be just smoke in
[7:42] the air like for all we know. So assuming we're going to get
[7:47] them, it obviously makes sense. But also it's like, OK, we sold
[7:50] Ku Karela and we want to get them.
[7:52] The only way to make the books work is to sell someone.
[7:54] And it may not be one player. We might still have to sell
[7:57] Federer to many. And when you're you have to come
[8:00] back negotiations for those players.
[8:01] So the only way to get 60 million in the books for last
[8:04] season Quake is probably Nico Paz.
[8:06] But listen, the whole amortization thing where you
[8:10] sign a player like, you know, you've a did it with the Arthur
[8:13] pianist swap where both teams book the profit from the sale
[8:16] into their season individually, but spread the loss from buying
[8:20] the player across multiple seasons.
[8:22] And I mean, I think that is something that we've done before
[8:25] 100. Percent common practice, by the
[8:27] way, and business happens all the time, right?
[8:30] They do that shit on a regular basis.
[8:32] Yeah, So it's it's not a big deal.
[8:33] But obviously like with us, we just wonder like why are we
[8:37] doing it to sign the most expensive 2728 year old defender
[8:40] ever, Cucarella like he's he's the most joint most expensive
[8:44] second at that age. So yeah, that's what makes me
[8:47] wonder about it. But but yeah, as far so going
[8:51] beyond that as far as some questions now, just a couple
[8:55] from talking Madrid. One, PSG look like they're
[8:57] building a monster. They have a great person in
[8:59] terms of Yandi, Armando and probably close to bringing
[9:01] bloody, possibly creepy junior from Bournemouth.
[9:04] With that kind of firepower coming together, what direction
[9:06] should Fremeter take in the 2026 transfer window?
[9:10] We already have Enrique and Franco, who should be targeted
[9:12] midfield on the wings going forward.
[9:15] Obviously, his own thought is that Phiney and Bapi Alicia
[9:17] would be a strong attacking trio.
[9:20] Any names outside what we've already heard that you would
[9:22] potentially throw into the mix? I mean.
[9:25] Also for deep line playmakers, by the way, his follow up
[9:27] question is who's the best player fit for the conductor
[9:31] role on the squad who can help us link games and in the and you
[9:36] know, who maximize in the dressing room like with what you
[9:38] have now, who'd you add? This is always the problem with
[9:41] Real Madrid, right? Because the common belief would
[9:47] be, well, let's just go out and get the best person in the world
[9:49] at that and pay whatever price it cost to get them, right?
[9:52] It's been the Perez model for a long time.
[9:54] But you've also done this thing where we get hot young prospects
[9:58] before they turn up, right? To talk about Andrick, talk
[10:01] about Massantuano, Jury is still out in many ways on both of
[10:04] them, right? Talk about Nico Paz.
[10:06] I'd say of the three of them, Nico far more established in
[10:09] what he is as a player and what his trajectory is than the other
[10:11] two. We just talked about him, him
[10:14] being sold. I think clearly the need for
[10:17] this team, as we talked about a little bit on the World Cup
[10:19] episodes did, is that on that right hand side of the pitch we
[10:22] need a left footed player. You got whoever it is like just
[10:27] so that there's more balance in the attack, right, So everything
[10:30] is not so left side dominant. I know people are going to tell
[10:33] me we won two back-to-back Champions League or we won a
[10:36] double with a heavy dominant left side attack.
[10:38] Yes, I understand that. But what we are trying to do is
[10:41] build a squad that is a little more versatile and a little bit
[10:46] more, I don't want to say lower their ceiling, but raise the
[10:49] floor right again. There's no reason why the
[10:52] collection of talent on this squad should not be winning La
[10:55] Liga. Like Barcelona's not 12 points
[10:57] better than this club, they're just not.
[10:59] But whatever reason this club doesn't give a shit.
[11:01] We don't care whatever. It's only Champions League or
[11:03] bust. And I think the reason we have a
[11:05] lot of problem with that is that when we play have to face low
[11:07] blocks, which we do against 90% of the league, right who don't
[11:10] press us. There's no people have no idea
[11:14] about what to do. Just put this out for the
[11:16] record, except when Job Yolanda was coaching, we seem to have a
[11:19] plan about what we're going to do.
[11:21] But that's neither here nor there.
[11:24] So who is out there that could help us?
[11:27] I mean, ideally that's what we talked about.
[11:29] We'll never get him. But Vitina is a guy I'd love to
[11:32] have, but we're never signing that dude.
[11:35] I don't like how Vitina plays again when the team's not
[11:38] pressing him. I don't love it, but I mean, I
[11:40] was just pointing out like some of these signings people want
[11:43] are so expensive and unrealistic and it seems like the club is
[11:45] still trying to follow through with maybe an Elisa or Enzo and
[11:48] it cripples you. It cripples you.
[11:50] If you if it doesn't work, you're you.
[11:52] You have to keep selling guys. And I would like, like I said on
[11:55] the last transfer episode, I would like Alex Garcia.
[11:58] There's a guy on Celta Vigo named Hugo Sotelo.
[12:01] Spanish like dribbles, links up. I mean, make sure he's Spanish.
[12:04] I know he plays for Celta Vigo as a.
[12:08] Player we had been linked with for a long time.
[12:11] I don't know if it was just smoke and mirrors or whatever,
[12:13] but I, Keith Smith is a player who I like a lot and he's super
[12:18] young and that's probably part of the reason why we can't get
[12:20] him young, only 20. And you know, if we were to get
[12:24] him, you know, Eric's vibe would probably be like, we want
[12:30] fucking a lot of money for him because this, we think this kid
[12:32] can be a future, a future *. Well, I think someone like like,
[12:38] I just think spreading the bets out, like we got our Bernardo in
[12:42] the older age bracket, that's good.
[12:44] Go get someone in the prime age bracket if you can, like an
[12:46] Enzo. Or if you can't get someone
[12:49] cheaper but still in the age bracket, like go get Alex
[12:52] Garcia, go get Hugo Sotelo, who's like 20-3, maybe not 19.
[12:57] Go pick up a few of these types of players if you can get Rodri
[13:02] on a free next year, like yeah. Yeah, don't pay any money for
[13:05] Rodri right now. Yup Yup.
[13:06] So go and get all these players for the cheapest possible price.
[13:10] Like, you know, even someone like Alex Baena who plays for
[13:13] Athletico, like if you. If you get Baena, Alberti's got
[13:17] to go. Yeah, yeah, totally.
[13:18] But I just mean go get these guys before they cost too much
[13:22] and everyone knows they're good. Like they they exist.
[13:24] Like go find, go like what I did to find some of these players,
[13:28] just go sort the the top leagues by certain stats like pass
[13:32] volume, pass completion rate, and then break them into age
[13:35] groups, into costs and just diversify your bets.
[13:37] That's all I'm asking for. It's like, you know, if it's
[13:40] like if you're betting on stocks, bet on a penny stock,
[13:42] bet on like a middle, mid tier stock expenses.
[13:44] Small cap, mid tier, large cap, yeah.
[13:46] Yeah, except it's we're, you know, except we're rich.
[13:48] Like, you know, we should be betting on like multiple things
[13:50] in every category all the time. And I think, yeah, just just go
[13:55] make those bets is what I midfield upfront.
[13:58] I would love Alvaro Rodriguez, by the way.
[14:00] Sorry, Go ahead. Good.
[14:01] I was going to say to facilitate any potential signings going
[14:04] forward, we will have to sell some people.
[14:08] And the talk is of course that it's someone in the midfield and
[14:12] the only candidates who would be who the team would part ways
[14:15] with would be the two Frenchmen to a mini Kama, Venka and and or
[14:19] Valverde. Now I love all these players for
[14:23] different reasons. Right now I'm lower on Valverde
[14:27] just because of everything that's happened.
[14:29] But because of that, his value is probably not very high.
[14:32] So you're not going to get anything for him.
[14:34] Camovinka hasn't played because he's injured, so his value also
[14:36] not very high. The sad part is the player at
[14:39] least want to sell the three is Chua many?
[14:41] But he's the one with the highest value most likely.
[14:43] Yeah, he could get you 80 million, hundred million.
[14:45] Like with the way Anderson's gone for so much, you should get
[14:48] good money for Chua. Many.
[14:50] Yeah, I agree. It's not.
[14:51] It's a shame, but I think that would be the smart decision.
[14:53] If you could get like 100 million for him and there's also
[14:55] rumors he wants like a sizeable contract, then you get rid of
[14:59] him for sure. Good player.
[15:02] Ideally you keep him, but not irreplaceable by any means.
[15:05] I just loved where he was trending, said.
[15:07] Especially when when Jabi was here like he he, he's playing
[15:10] the best football of his career. But we we still would need to
[15:12] find someone who can defend zone 14 in front of the center backs
[15:16] if we sell him. And that person probably won't
[15:19] be Fetty or Cama Vinga. That's the problem.
[15:21] Definitely either of. Them, yeah, 'cause they're,
[15:23] they're just box to box players who like their freedom and
[15:26] they're supporting players, role players and yeah, and true.
[15:29] Or many can anchor that zone defensively at least, even if
[15:32] not offensively. And it is what it is.
[15:35] But yeah, I mean, I think just to fill out the squad like
[15:38] multiple cheap midfield profiles and then one striker who
[15:43] shouldn't cost too much like Morici or Alvaro Rodriguez or in
[15:47] the past it could have been Hugo Akuteke could have solved all
[15:50] your. Problems boudemir in the past.
[15:51] Yep, yeah. So go get a Boudemir or Marici
[15:54] or Alvaro Rodriguez, and then also go get a left footed player
[15:59] for the right hand side. It's just, yeah, like, you know,
[16:01] you have Mastantuano and Enrique and Fetti on the books.
[16:04] You're selling Nico Paz we have. I mean, that's why you don't
[16:07] sign too many young players at once.
[16:10] We have a lot of these bets that are just bets.
[16:12] Like, I don't know who's gonna pick up Franco.
[16:15] It seems Mourinho likes Franco, though.
[16:17] Mastan Toronto. A lot is what people say so.
[16:20] Did Jabi? Yeah, because he actually makes
[16:23] the off ball run and defends. That's something that he likes.
[16:27] One question we got is from Divyansh Raoul.
[16:29] Love the pod. Please keep it going.
[16:31] My question is, do you think a strong core of Spanish players
[16:34] is a necessity at this club? Because Sid likes to talk about
[16:37] 20 to 30 pass sequences. I think some of the best players
[16:39] to achieve this are Spanish players.
[16:41] So do you think a strong Spanish core can bring the necessary
[16:44] structural and cultural changes in our first team in our club?
[16:47] I mean, what do you think I. Think I feel like we do this
[16:52] thing in football where it's like the only players who can
[16:54] string together 2030 pass sequences are Spanish La Macia.
[17:00] These are talented football players.
[17:02] Like I think if coached correctly, we have players who
[17:06] can string together 20. They're just never asked to do
[17:08] that. And many of them don't have the
[17:12] constitution to want to do that, right?
[17:15] They just want to get the ball out there.
[17:16] If you take on the defender and it's like, all right, man.
[17:18] But against low blocks, you can't do that, right?
[17:21] Like you have to do the thing where you stretch the block out
[17:24] a little bit, get them to come out of position a little bit.
[17:26] So now you can make your you make your play and attack.
[17:29] And I just don't know that we have enough players at the
[17:31] finishing end who want to wait for that pass, pass, pass build
[17:34] up sequence, right? And sadly for us, they are the
[17:37] loudest people in the locker room with the most influence and
[17:39] voice. And this is what causes a
[17:41] problem. Now, do I think we need to
[17:44] manage players on the team? I think it would be helpful just
[17:46] from the standpoint of when when the national team starts playing
[17:50] its political games, Real Madrid isn't screwed and they have
[17:53] players who should be at the World Cup who aren't.
[17:55] Now, really selfishly, from a club standpoint, I love that
[17:58] Dean House is not there. Yeah, I think it's also not just
[18:00] Spanish like Barcelona, La Mascia de side pedry, like I
[18:04] think just a mindset to sign that type of player and
[18:07] encourage him. And like we have no concept of
[18:10] the youth team carrying over. Like a lot of the Spanish
[18:12] players would come from the youth team where and I I don't
[18:16] know if it's Spanish. I agree though, like you just
[18:18] want to pick up the best player of his age group who's good at
[18:20] something. Go find wonder kids like
[18:22] Barcelona just keep finding them.
[18:23] Like Pedri was signed. He wasn't La Marcia, he was
[18:25] cheap and he was signed when the disgraced president was leaving
[18:29] and it was like on the way out he signed it Bartimao.
[18:31] So I think it's not Spanish like the Tina and others, they're not
[18:36] Spanish. Cruz and Otters were not
[18:37] Spanish. So that's why I think it's, I
[18:41] just think we need more of the culture of Spanish football
[18:43] though in our club, like of of like playing together, playing
[18:47] with the ball of and of advancing the youth Academy and
[18:51] teaching them how to play. And then then you bring in
[18:54] another coach and he tries playing Castilla.
[18:56] You realize he's no one takes him seriously either.
[18:58] Then you give power to another coach.
[19:01] After that, you realize it was the coach.
[19:03] So basically it's it's, I just think it's hard to separate the
[19:07] idea that the Spanish players and the need for span in the
[19:12] club is separable from the coach's inability to have
[19:15] influence at the club. Because I think in an
[19:18] environment where coaches are prioritized, you would get more
[19:21] controlling profiles signed at all times.
[19:24] You would get more Castilla players through the Academy and
[19:28] everything would be smooth. There would be a flow.
[19:29] There would be a way for players to go from point A to B I don't
[19:33] think we have that because I think we're focused on
[19:35] marketable players and Galacticos, and those aren't
[19:38] always Spanish players. Like they they are marketable
[19:41] when they win, but they're not marketable as like Jude is more
[19:44] marketable than Pedry for example.
[19:47] Now, Jude is also a far better player than Pedry.
[19:49] Let's also be clear about that. But Pedry is a far better
[19:52] controller, right, than Jude. And so that I think because I
[19:56] just think comparing them as players is futile.
[19:59] And, and I think that's the point.
[20:00] It's like the club sees that too.
[20:02] They're like, oh, but Jude's a better player.
[20:03] We're going to go sign the best players and win.
[20:05] But it's like, hey, at any point you need a farm system for these
[20:08] players who are willing to play a certain style.
[20:10] And I don't think, I don't think the club has it and I don't
[20:15] think Spanish players are the ones who will necessarily solve
[20:18] it. I think an environment where the
[20:20] club says cashier is going to get prioritized.
[20:21] We want to control games and win them.
[20:23] We want to win back-to-back league titles, then yes, I
[20:26] think. Spanish players will come
[20:27] through inherently but. But clearly, this club does not
[20:31] prioritize winning league titles.
[20:33] Clearly. Right.
[20:34] And so if you don't care about league titles, why do you care
[20:36] about having a stable stock of any position?
[20:39] Like you just want to sign the next marketable player?
[20:42] But yeah, another question here. So happy the pod is back.
[20:48] Well, I guess you know, before we get to that.
[20:49] So current squad without any. I know your dog's barking.
[20:52] I know she's she's bugging out. Current squad with any deep line
[20:58] playmakers like who would you give the keys to Bernardo, how
[21:02] would you go about it? And the current team?
[21:04] Do you think we have enough without Bernardo and the current
[21:06] team? No.
[21:11] Well, the question is, is do you think Arda can do this?
[21:14] Hold on one second. No worries, No worries.
[21:17] Yeah, Arda, Arda, I don't think he can.
[21:21] So you know, just circling back to talking with Rich question,
[21:25] roof from the poles in the dressing room is closest to the
[21:27] crew style metronome. What adjustments you can make to
[21:29] maximize that profile? I mean, as currently
[21:32] constructed, I would feel most comfortable with one of them
[21:34] Nappy or Vinny, with a Jude, with Bernardo, with true many
[21:39] fete and then frankly an Elysee, but if not Elysee, a Vinny.
[21:44] So you take Bernardo and you give him 3-3 thugs.
[21:48] That's what I say. And not that Jude's a pure thug,
[21:50] but. Sorry, the window cleaners are
[21:52] here and so the dog's like going nuts of the question to ask is
[21:57] do you think Arta can be that deep line playmaker?
[21:59] No, I I don't think there's any world where he is.
[22:01] That's why I think the deco passe on everything is
[22:04] interesting because it's like if passcode kind of slot in and be
[22:08] one of like an Isco type. We don't know anymore.
[22:11] I don't think the word can be Isco.
[22:12] Like he's not even, he doesn't turn on the ball like that, so.
[22:15] So you use Bernardo and then you put guys who are physical around
[22:20] him, right? I don't like to use words like
[22:21] thugs. So you have like you have chew
[22:22] him a you have Jude Bellingham, right?
[22:25] You have guys who can be physical.
[22:27] That's what you need, right? Yeah, You need someone who can
[22:30] who can protect them, right? Like who essentially and who can
[22:33] also just win duels, right? Like and going and by the way, I
[22:38] know he's out of favor right now, but when he's right, Kemah
[22:42] Binger's a elite dual winning machine elite.
[22:47] Yeah, yeah. No, totally.
[22:48] Listen for me, I don't love, I know you might not love the
[22:50] implication, but I just mean, like, bodyguard, gangster,
[22:53] whatever you want to call it. These guys are not.
[22:55] They're not Wizards, that's for sure.
[22:56] Yeah. Yeah.
[22:58] But they're necessary. They're necessary.
[22:59] You know, they're like, they're president's Secret Service.
[23:02] Like you need them like. For.
[23:04] Sure. And yeah, I mean, that's what I
[23:06] mean. I'm saying I, I just think
[23:08] everyone needs to see our midfield as a formula of like
[23:11] role players and runners. Even if the runners can be a
[23:14] superstar like Jude, fundamentally it's like
[23:17] receivers and play finishers and play starters and like the play
[23:21] finishers have to do the job of being your bodyguard, your
[23:24] workhorse, your water carrier, thug, gangster.
[23:27] They got to go shove the other team when they're trying to hurt
[23:30] your guy. You got to protect him.
[23:31] And that's what they did so well for Tony Cruz.
[23:33] So my way is like this last season with Cruz and Modrich, we
[23:37] had two of them. So you had that redundancy or
[23:40] you could play one or the other. And we don't have that with
[23:43] Bernardo right now. We we only have one.
[23:45] No, I still like we have redundancy with these
[23:47] bodyguards. Like we have multiple bodyguards
[23:50] for any controllers. So that's why I keep saying
[23:52] bring in cheap Wizards who are just good with the ball, who who
[23:56] can make it go from point E to point E without trying and guys
[24:01] who can't run for the life of it, who need runners around
[24:03] them. But yeah, that that's what I
[24:06] think so. So in that way, I know you don't
[24:08] like how he turns on the ball, but so you still don't think
[24:11] Arta can do that? So I think you got to set the
[24:13] table for other players and when you're doing that, you got to be
[24:16] able to turn on the ball because you got to be able to pass it
[24:18] side to side. I think if you can be prevented
[24:23] from receiving the ball in certain situations and doing
[24:25] anything with it, then you're not good at it.
[24:28] But yeah, I mean, that's what Arda is so interesting to me
[24:30] because it's like he needs the same protectors around him and
[24:33] he has an impact, but it's not controlling games.
[24:35] So yeah. Yeah.
[24:37] I just think the squad profile around Arda is always gonna be
[24:42] different. Like I think I like Arda is like
[24:44] 1 plus like a cruise or Modric. Then it's like, OK, we have so
[24:50] much passing threat all over the field that we can do something.
[24:54] But yeah, I mean, this is where I think like the stats for Arda
[24:58] really missed a picture. It's like statistically he's a
[25:01] low turnover highest this guy, but he he's just never really
[25:05] going to be in a role of extremely high challenging
[25:07] usage. Because he is the he's the final
[25:11] pass to the finisher for the score as opposed to the pass
[25:15] before the pass before the pass. Right.
[25:17] Like, yeah, I mean, he'll, he'll do some pass before the pass
[25:20] stuff, but it's like it's just worse than Cruz and Modrich.
[25:23] And yeah, I'm not a big fan of it.
[25:24] What? Spare No.
[25:25] No, it's spare. Yeah, that that.
[25:27] I just think his future is gonna be very interesting.
[25:30] So let me ask you this then, because he's a Jack of all
[25:33] trades and can do it. Do you then turn Jude into your
[25:36] deep line playmaker? I mean, I think, you know,
[25:39] because of what he said at the World Cup, you know, like he
[25:41] said it himself, like, like Jude, when you're so athletic,
[25:44] like Jude and so mobile, like you enjoy doing the bodyguard
[25:47] duties, like you enjoy digging it in.
[25:49] And then on top of that, you can run in behind.
[25:51] And I, I think the World Cup shows you why.
[25:54] Like he said it himself, like, you know, at Real Madrid, it's a
[25:56] little different. I play a little deeper here.
[25:58] I'm like a three eight or a high 10.
[26:01] No, I think, I think Jude will always have freedom to crash the
[26:04] box. I think Jude can do that as he
[26:06] gets older when he loses his legs, kind of like a KDB as as
[26:11] he's gotten older, but I would hate to see his best years
[26:15] wasted like in that role. Right.
[26:16] So you're thinking because he's such an athletic freak right now
[26:18] and a prime player, let's keep him.
[26:20] Let's keep him in that free roll upfront.
[26:21] He can crash and do and do that. Stuff well, you get peak
[26:23] defensive coverage, you get a box crasher and he still links
[26:27] play pretty like like he's a midfielder when he's a forward,
[26:31] He's a forward when he's a midfielder, you know.
[26:34] And so when he's playing as a forward, you get extra.
[26:37] It's like you had you're playing in a diamond effectively when
[26:39] he's a forward because he's going to do the Isco things.
[26:42] So yeah, I really like him in the Isco role from the late
[26:46] twenty 10's and just at the slot.
[26:49] Isco could play deeper, but I don't think Jude can.
[26:51] I think that's the key distinction because Isco wasn't
[26:54] tall, he wouldn't crash the box. So it's like the whole value add
[26:57] for him is what he does when it gets to his feet.
[27:00] Jude, he adds value with to add his feet.
[27:02] But sometimes because he's so tall, you know, it's like it can
[27:05] be hard for him to let go of the ball as quickly as he has to.
[27:09] And he's not a pure like balter feet dribbly when you're a
[27:11] playmaker. So it's like but he still does
[27:13] such a good job at the connecting sequences.
[27:15] I think like the the one touch layoff to someone and I think
[27:19] honestly I think him and Jillian should fit better.
[27:22] I just think it's weird that they haven't because they they
[27:24] both should love just playing 1/2 through the defense.
[27:27] I agree. Vinny, I can understand the
[27:29] harder fit because like he just keeps coming to the touchline
[27:32] again, like. Yeah, I know you what you think
[27:37] about it, but is there a world where because he does do some
[27:42] decent on ball stuff sometimes for friends and even we saw it
[27:45] under Chabi where too many can evolve on ball.
[27:50] Yeah. I mean, I mean, he did it
[27:52] briefly maybe under Javi, although I think Javi over time
[27:55] turned him into a just clean everything up or like just get
[27:58] rid of it and clean it up. I mean, he was good under Carlo,
[28:00] but I think now we can see Carlo's like a ballsy attacking
[28:03] coach who would like guys who aren't as good on the ball do
[28:07] things with it. And I mean, I mean, he profiled
[28:10] that way why he isn't there, why his passes are so slow despite.
[28:14] And watching the film, presumably knowing what to do,
[28:17] that's a different story. I can't answer that without
[28:20] talking to him, frankly. Do I think I could fix him?
[28:22] Yes. Like, like if you want to sign
[28:25] up, you know, shoot me a grand, we'll, we'll get started.
[28:29] Or, you know, we'll do a discovery call, we'll get going.
[28:31] But I think I could, I could. I do think like, there has to be
[28:34] some blockage with him. Like maybe you have to take
[28:36] something. Like the Steph Curry like
[28:39] whether you like the lights on the board touch things like too
[28:41] many. So what we said with his feet,
[28:43] you feel like this is what you do on greenness and it's like,
[28:45] bro, it's just automatic now. You don't even got to think
[28:47] about it. Like you see it boom free like.
[28:50] I do think that I would like to think someone's tried something
[28:53] like that with him where their. Hope listen, this is this is the
[28:56] squad said that it's chef was telling people not to listen to
[28:59] nutritionists and putting out Donuts and and croissants.
[29:02] So that's a bad assumption to me.
[29:04] We don't know. Yeah, no, that's for sure.
[29:06] That's why I had trouble. He's been given the optimal
[29:09] individual training. And yeah, no, it's sad that some
[29:11] guys doing a podcast could conceivably maybe have a better
[29:15] program ready to go overnight than the club, but it's
[29:20] conceivable. Yeah, it could be true.
[29:21] I could. It's possible that like an idea
[29:23] I have has never been tried because they're just fucking
[29:25] around. Listen, we we enough stories
[29:29] have come out about this club this year that anything is
[29:31] believable from that standpoint. Yeah, yeah.
[29:33] And so, yeah, I really, I don't know what's going on with him.
[29:35] Yeah, it's it's just funny. It's just sad, though.
[29:38] If you told me 2022, you'll sign all these young guys, but in 26
[29:41] you'll still be wondering if they were optimized.
[29:42] And it's just like, and he'll, he'll win, but you'll sign in
[29:46] Bape and then things will really go to shit.
[29:48] If you told me that, I would have been like, damn, we'll
[29:50] probably just and I wouldn't have kept the show going.
[29:55] Fucking I'm out of here. Dude, the last two years, what's
[29:58] the what have we gotten out of this show rather than we've
[30:00] grown our audience? Thank you all to listening but
[30:02] like damn it sucked for two years.
[30:06] It has not been good football. Look, we we want it to be good
[30:08] football, obviously that's why we're doing it.
[30:10] We just want to sit point like if you're going to make these
[30:13] bets, you have to have the environment for these bets to
[30:17] have the best possible chance of paying off.
[30:20] And it seems to me that the environment that we've created
[30:23] has not been that to allow these bets to pay off so.
[30:27] Yep, Yep. And final question we're taking
[30:29] here. I know it's cycling away from
[30:31] transfers, but we've answered this so we'll be brief.
[30:34] So happy the pod is back. My question can Gismo Narang
[30:37] asks. Given Mourinho's philosophy in
[30:39] Madrid's current squad, how do you think he would shape the
[30:42] team? Tactically, positionally,
[30:43] philosophically? What style of play would emerge?
[30:45] How competitive would it be against today's top modern
[30:47] football systems? Would it be good enough to
[30:49] potentially win our first trouble?
[30:52] Listen, I'll go, I'll let you go.
[30:54] This whole trouble thing y'all need to chill on that.
[30:56] Like I just so many things have to break right for the trouble
[30:59] to work number 1. So I, I, I don't see it now as
[31:03] far as look, I think in our we'll play some kind of 4231 is
[31:11] my guess. I think to your point, we talked
[31:14] about earlier said we still need that left footed person on the
[31:17] right hand side, whomever, whoever that's going to be.
[31:21] Obviously, I think your back line's going to be Cucarella
[31:26] Kanate. Person.
[31:31] The hoist in the militale I I would go hoisting personally,
[31:33] just because he's younger and he's he's more fit and Trent and
[31:36] and honestly, I think Dumfries will be very good for Trent.
[31:40] I think he will push him in a way that's like, hey, man, like
[31:44] I can't do some of the stuff you do offensively, but you dirty
[31:47] can't defend like I can defend like so I think that'll be good.
[31:51] And then obviously chew a many. Well, I was gonna say obviously
[31:53] chew a many. Well, depending on if we sell
[31:55] him or not, I hope we don't Chuomeni Valverde, right, some
[32:00] kind of situation back there. And then you're, you know,
[32:02] you're talking about Bellingham, Bernardo and Vinicius, right?
[32:07] But Vinicius is kind of going to be sort of more that it sits in
[32:10] on a touchline and then it bape up top, right, Like with Guler
[32:13] sort of fighting to figure out where I fit in on that on that
[32:17] side, on the on the right side. I don't know.
[32:19] How much Guler plays? But I know, I think Jude gets to
[32:22] 10 and I think he gets to 10. I think yeah, it could, it
[32:25] should be some sort of 4231, maybe a 442, a lot of fast
[32:29] transitions, maybe some quick wing play.
[32:31] But I think it'll my prediction is it'll be good against big
[32:35] teams and worse against small teams and.
[32:37] So more of the same as what you're saying essentially?
[32:40] Yeah, like kind of like what we got into our Velora like
[32:42] arguably where maybe less built around Vinnie and more a lot
[32:46] more around Jude. I would expect and kill in and
[32:49] yeah I don't think Vinnie will win sit if.
[32:52] That happens. The locker room dynamic going to
[32:55] be like. Right.
[32:57] And that's where that's where it's kind of starts branching
[32:59] out like, OK, what happens after the first few weeks of the
[33:02] season is hard to say. After that first day of school
[33:05] vibes or everybody likes each other for that, right?
[33:07] And then all of a sudden he realizes I'm not scoring.
[33:10] Especially if the contract renewal doesn't happen.
[33:15] Yeah, honestly, it could be a crazy season and that's why I
[33:18] would say we could against big teams in transition.
[33:22] I think Mourinho gets his way. I think he benches the guys he
[33:25] wants to bench and he puts out decent teams.
[33:27] You might have a growing pain, but you know, you lose the
[33:30] team's big here and there. Like Marina lost his first
[33:32] classical final. We don't we don't hold that
[33:34] against him again and again until he won the league.
[33:37] But yeah, I think big games might have some growing pains,
[33:40] but small games we could start better with like the whole
[33:43] honeymoon period. And then could be September,
[33:45] October, when everything gets really hard, when the mud first.
[33:49] Game, I guess that, let that go. That's always the one.
[33:51] That'll be the one. That'll be the one.
[33:53] Yeah, honestly, I hate, I hate how that's become a thing too.
[33:56] But like, for a few years now. But the first game against
[34:00] Athletico is a litmus test. That's going to be the one.
[34:02] And it's going to be like, oh, because we're going to be like
[34:04] the vibes are going to be great. They're going to be winning.
[34:05] And it's like, all right, forget about tactics.
[34:08] That team hates our guts and they turn up their intensity to
[34:11] a level that we have been unable to match for three years.
[34:15] Will we match it? That's good for the question.
[34:17] Yeah, go ahead. And I would say even if we play
[34:19] well, I would wait till like last year, we thought we were
[34:21] good with the processes looking good.
[34:23] But even if we are good now, we know like you're only like a
[34:26] player saying something from the season being ruined.
[34:28] So don't don't take it from. Taking an entire season.
[34:32] Yeah, yeah. So it's gonna be fascinating.
[34:34] But yeah, I don't think we'll get far away from good against
[34:37] big teams and struggling against blocks.
[34:39] But if we do, I will be surprised and impressed.
[34:42] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's all for today's
[34:45] episode of The Real Deal. If you like this episode, please
[34:47] like, subscribe, comment, tell your friends, subscribe to
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[35:07] Gerard, any closing thoughts here?
[35:09] Like and subscribe as it said, always ask, you never know,
[35:12] reach out to us, we'll see what we can do and just, you know,
[35:14] enjoy the summer, enjoy football and hopefully we'll have a good
[35:17] season coming up.

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