# Is Camavinga's Career In Trouble?

An episode of [The Real Deal: A Real Madrid Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1807821669), 12 Aug 2025, 1 h 45 min.

Audio: https://anchor.fm/s/103607aa8/podcast/play/106785890/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2025-7-12%2F405560994-44100-2-23d6eebd7be.mp3

Loconte is joined by Cerebrone to discuss Eduardo Camavinga: his time in Ligue 1, his career trajectory, and his injury issues at Real Madrid. What will his future at Real Madrid look like? Will he ever get to the point of being a starter? Does Real Madrid now need more midfield depth given his injuries?

## Transcript

[1:03] Yo-yo, yo, welcome everybody to another podcast and I hope you
[1:10] guys are enjoying this. We have Cerbroni back with us
[1:13] again on the Real Deal Pods, a Real Madrid podcast, but this
[1:17] time around we're going to discuss Kamalinga.
[1:20] Hey man, thank you for joining again and it's a real pleasure
[1:23] to everyone. Yeah, thanks for having me
[1:26] again. Had fun the last time.
[1:28] Yeah, it was fun. Interestingly enough, today
[1:31] we'll be discussing Kaba Linga. We had already set up this
[1:36] podcast before even the news of the injury came out.
[1:40] So it was kind of maybe we spoke it into existence.
[1:43] God, you know, I don't know, but yeah, so I guess.
[1:49] Just 10 days, right? Yeah.
[1:53] He's out. He's out for just 10 days,
[1:54] right? I'm sorry.
[1:57] They said he's out for 10 days, right?
[2:00] Yeah, he's out for a short period of time, yes, 10 days.
[2:03] So basically he might or might not miss the start, beginning of
[2:07] La Liga, but still up in the air.
[2:10] But yeah, it's just kind of like a reoccurring theme, which is
[2:15] our first point. Since coming during Madrid, we
[2:20] have seen that he has had a little bit of struggles to say
[2:24] fit. I put that a little bit on his
[2:28] playstyle. Ultra aggressive sometimes just
[2:31] doesn't really think of his body a bit too much.
[2:34] When he when he jumps into challenges, you can tell that
[2:38] he's a specimen physically, but sometimes he does a little bit
[2:41] much. So what's your really your take
[2:43] on Kamalinga and those reoccurring injuries like he's
[2:48] facing with Madrid? Yeah, I think like you said it,
[2:53] it comes down to his playstyle. He's he's quite aggressive,
[2:56] which he's supposed to be because of like the nature of
[2:59] his position and the fact that he's a ball winner and also the
[3:03] manner in which he wins goes sometimes he goes to ground in a
[3:07] very, I mean, it doesn't go completely to ground ball.
[3:09] Like you see him. Maybe he's on one knee and then
[3:11] the other leg is outstretched or something like that.
[3:14] And then he also chases down players sort of like I always
[3:17] say that he was similar to Kante in that regard, like the ability
[3:20] to win the ball on the run while chasing the player.
[3:24] He's chasing you from behind, but he's going to get that ball.
[3:27] But he has to go around you in a way that he doesn't foul you.
[3:30] But that also comes with its risks and there are not many
[3:33] players in Wolf Ball that can do that.
[3:35] He's a Unicorn anywhere. Close to that, yeah, exactly
[3:39] Anywhere close to how he does it.
[3:40] But that comes with unfortunately downside of being
[3:43] injured. Now, as he grows older, his
[3:47] ability to recover from injuries as quickly will be reduced
[3:53] because of course the body starts to change and all of
[3:55] that. So maybe, I don't know, I don't
[3:58] know what needs to happen. Maybe he has to change his place
[4:00] style a little bit. But then if he if he changes too
[4:03] much, he loses what some of what makes him special.
[4:07] So it's a bit tricky. Yeah, it's a bit tricky.
[4:10] But I mean, like we've seen with someone like Pedry, injury
[4:15] problems can be a thing of the past.
[4:17] It just depends on how things can be managed.
[4:20] So I'm looking forward to seeing how that that's managed by
[4:23] Madrid. Yeah, I mean, we already had the
[4:28] discussion on this podcast about Tomalina and I had him like one
[4:32] of the most exciting players to watch.
[4:33] And they're a bit more of a Bridget style of Alonzo, right,
[4:37] due to he everything that he has, which is a lot for
[4:42] midfielder. And of course, like one of the
[4:45] main concerns always was is he going to be able to remain
[4:49] healthy? He got injured at the end of
[4:51] last season is the Club World Cup and didn't really train with
[4:56] the group at all when they returned.
[4:58] Now we don't really know like what really is going on because
[5:02] those injuries, the one that he just picked up was outside of
[5:06] training with the group. It might have been like a sport
[5:10] of the rehab. We don't know really what's
[5:12] happening with the team. If there's a team assigned to be
[5:15] working with his rehabilitation, Some of those things can happen
[5:19] as he's trying to recover and, you know, strengthen his muscles
[5:23] maybe to sustain just a little bit more of that play style.
[5:27] Because just like you mentioned, Kamininga's play style is, is
[5:31] very you can't really find it because he's very bumpy, very up
[5:35] and down, very energetic. And I like to call them spider
[5:39] tackles because of how he you know, how he puts his leg to get
[5:44] the ball, which we have seen him get yellow cards even though he
[5:48] completely got the ball. But due to how unnatural the
[5:52] shape is, it comes to the IT comes to the referees as a foul,
[5:57] even though he he made full contact with the ball.
[6:00] So sometimes he has some unfortunate things there.
[6:03] I think that the referees and you know, in general need to get
[6:07] adjusted to how he does things because as I said, again, a
[6:10] Unicorn, literally, you won't find a player but that wins the
[6:15] ball back in the same way like we have Charmeni on the team
[6:19] who's an excellent ball winner, but he wins it in a more
[6:24] traditional way, right? It's more like a a lead dueler
[6:28] reader of the game. Like he doesn't even need to
[6:31] constantly tackle like Kamalinga.
[6:33] Kamalinga is more like, OK, my physicality can make up even if
[6:37] my positioning wasn't as good as it should have been.
[6:41] Of course. Just to ask you this, what do
[6:45] you think that time in a more like a freedom style of
[6:50] Funchalotti where not a lot of emphasis was was put on
[6:53] positions, therefore you have to cover a lot.
[6:56] Yeah, even the position changes that you have to consistently
[6:59] went through the things that those have played a part because
[7:02] this is going to go into the second point, which is this time
[7:05] in France, like we know like a Marine got debuted at 15 years
[7:09] old if I'm not wrong or 16 very early.
[7:13] Start from 15, yeah. Yeah, so we're going to go
[7:18] there, but I wanted to say that before that is, do you think
[7:22] that Angelotti's style, which required a lot from the
[7:25] midfielders to make up, even let it be for the defenders?
[7:28] Madrid's a little bit of dysfunctional style of play,
[7:34] which as we have seen a lot of injuries happen due to it.
[7:37] But Kamalinga has been like one of the biggest guides to have to
[7:42] go through it. He played left back at times,
[7:44] like left interior, defensive midfielder.
[7:47] All of these are changes which you have to do different things.
[7:52] Therefore it's more like mental and also physical to him.
[7:56] You think that those play a part in how much problems now he's
[8:01] facing? 1000 percent, 1000% I think that
[8:08] structurally, structurally, Madrid were a bit of a mess on
[8:12] that jealousy. In football generally, I don't
[8:17] like when there are too many extremes, right?
[8:20] This manager wants freedom, but then he does it too much.
[8:24] Or this manager wants rigidity, one structure, and then does it
[8:27] too much. And then at the end of the day,
[8:29] you have either one extreme or the other.
[8:32] Now with Angelotti, I think that there was still a bit more
[8:35] structure, but as time went on over the years, it became a bit
[8:41] too structureless. And last season for me was like
[8:45] the the peak of it. I couldn't believe what I was
[8:47] watching. Sometimes there was just.
[8:49] Too much work. I don't think you even know what
[8:51] they wanted themselves out of the team in that life.
[8:55] We feel like you're giving them too much work, Ferival very.
[8:58] It's a miracle that Velvet is still able to run because the
[9:02] amount of work that Velvet had to do to make up for was just
[9:07] too much. And then of course, the likes of
[9:09] Karma Venga over the years also, I had to step in, even try many
[9:13] there. There was a point where fans
[9:15] were coming after try many and basically painting them as like
[9:20] completely useless or this or that.
[9:22] And those baffles me when fans cannot realize when the problem
[9:26] isn't individual but the structure.
[9:30] Because you have to put players in a structure that allows them
[9:32] to optimize the best, you know, to be optimized so that their
[9:36] best traits show and their weaknesses are reduced.
[9:39] Now with Kama Venga, which are many with Volvetti, they usually
[9:43] have to do too much work. And for Kama Venga specially,
[9:47] the work is multiplied because of the multiple positions he is
[9:53] required to play multiple roles. I know that Volveti has had to
[9:55] be right back and then midfield, but I feel like common fingers
[9:59] has to do even more than, you know, both of them in terms of
[10:04] like adapting to different roles and doing different things kind
[10:07] of guys. Basically the problem solver,
[10:10] you bring him to solve a problem he solves in the World Cup
[10:12] final. He came on to play left back and
[10:15] he shut down that place. And that's why, like I always
[10:18] read about him, he's a player that you know, is able to
[10:22] provide you solutions anywhere you want them on the pitch.
[10:25] But the problem is over the years also he's not been allowed
[10:29] to really develop in his primary position.
[10:32] But I guess we'll get to that, but.
[10:35] That's what you. Ask.
[10:36] Yeah, but there's too much, too much work, sometimes too much
[10:41] space to cover because the structure isn't really there.
[10:44] And of course it has. It takes a toll on the player
[10:47] who has to do that. Today, Kamervinga has to play in
[10:50] midfield and do all of that work.
[10:53] Tomorrow he has to play from the left at left back and do all of
[10:57] that work and then do some more work in midfield as well because
[11:00] like everything is just jumbled up.
[11:02] I think that played a role. Definitely, definitely.
[11:06] He's just gone through way too many position changes.
[11:09] First, he started like first before we go into like like his
[11:14] time in France when he came up with dread.
[11:17] He was being tasked to be a box crasher at the start and that
[11:22] slowly started to shift into him playing deeper and deeper.
[11:27] And then we go into another season.
[11:29] Then Mindy has physical problems which followed and now there's a
[11:35] big void into the left back roll which he had to fill.
[11:39] Then we go to season after and he's more of like starts the
[11:46] season as kind of like that left interior where we started with
[11:50] moderation, Cruz bolting defense because Angelotti wanted to go
[11:55] full in with the physicality that Kamalinga was going to
[12:00] provide from the left and Alberta was going to provide
[12:03] from the from the right with Shamani on the centre and Jude
[12:06] as that number 10 behind the beyond the 2, not strikers, I
[12:13] don't want to say, but fours right, because everything is
[12:15] fluid. We don't have to stick to that.
[12:17] But his his roles kept on shifting and a lot nothing ever
[12:23] remained the same for him. And then he goes to the bench.
[12:26] Then when he has to come back to the start in 11 is just always
[12:31] in different role. Like sometimes you see him as
[12:34] right sided midfielder because Fede has to go as a right back
[12:40] for example. Or you see him off the left
[12:43] where it's different. Or last season which you said
[12:46] was a mess. He used Jude Bellingham, no
[12:49] disrespect into like Jordan Henderson type of role and we
[12:53] were telling Kamalinda to crash the box in an old classical.
[12:57] I'm not even saying that he did a poor job there because he had
[13:00] one of the best chances in the game doing that role.
[13:04] But it's more of the fact that OK, this guy just keeps on
[13:08] changing. He's like a long pivot in one
[13:10] game, he's part of the double pivot on the other.
[13:13] And then we criticize Shamin and Kamaminga for not working well
[13:18] together as a double pivot, even though on paper it should work
[13:21] right? You allow one of them can say,
[13:24] the other can push, you know they can interchange with one
[13:28] another. I think that the skill set is
[13:29] there to make them work, but they just never get enough time
[13:33] together to build them upon that and their positions.
[13:37] Both of them have had this problem keep on changing.
[13:40] One fills a centre back, one fills as a full bag, 1 is more
[13:45] like defensive midfielder and A22 and then the other is taking
[13:49] that spot because somebody else is there.
[13:51] So yeah, this kind of like this very important to talk because
[13:57] he's time in France, right? Like he started, if I remember
[14:00] correctly, he's sort of more like a a defensive midfielder
[14:06] type of thing. But as he developed, he started
[14:10] floating more and more on the pitch and that's where like the
[14:13] Madrich comparisons came on, right?
[14:16] Where he was going to impact the team on every phase.
[14:20] Of course, he was very young when he was playing Arthrone,
[14:25] but that was kind of like where we were drawing parallels.
[14:29] He felt like a mini Madrich. Of course there are different
[14:33] ways, but when we say Madrich, we mean that box for box player
[14:37] who can impact the game with the ball and without the ball.
[14:40] Kamalinga of course, had that ultra athleticism that came with
[14:45] them. I'm not going to say that
[14:46] Montreal didn't have that, but not to the extent of Kamalinga.
[14:50] And you could say that Kamalinga did not have the IQ or the game
[14:54] reading of Madrich and such. Things change, right?
[14:57] But in terms of like the overall role, we always expected the
[15:00] Madrich shook him out. Given his time in France, would
[15:03] you say that that's a fair assessment of him?
[15:06] Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
[15:08] Because if you remember, just before he left Ren, they
[15:13] actually gave him the number tension.
[15:15] And it wasn't just as a gift or anything like that.
[15:19] It was because of what he saw him as.
[15:22] And I always felt like my finger is so misunderstood because of
[15:27] his ability to do everything. So because you know that he's
[15:31] going to win the ball. He's a very good ball winner.
[15:34] He's very athletic. He's this and that.
[15:36] It's very easy to put him in a box and say, OK, now be Adm, you
[15:41] know, sit alone and let everybody else play in front of
[15:44] you. But I always felt like I was
[15:47] always more than that. And I took at it a bunch of
[15:49] times back then. And because everybody can put
[15:52] him in a box, this guy, yes, of course, when he came out, he
[15:56] was, he was still sitting a bit more.
[15:58] But as he started to gain more prominence in the team and after
[16:02] a while everything started to run through him in midfield, he
[16:06] said to have more freedom. And by the end of his time in
[16:10] Iran, which I think was possibly him playing his best football by
[16:15] that point, I know that everybody remembers the PSG game
[16:18] when he was 16. A dollar.
[16:20] That was the game, right? That was the game.
[16:22] That was the game. But after that he actually
[16:27] improved and kept developing and he was not developing into an
[16:30] all rounder that could do pretty much everything.
[16:33] Someone you give the freedom to run things, you know, he carries
[16:38] the ball. His ball carrying was very, very
[16:42] good, you know, and people weren't seeing that because
[16:45] everybody just kept thinking of him, especially because of that
[16:48] PSD game. Like, oh, this guy, he sits, he
[16:50] distributes, he does this and that.
[16:52] But come my finger for me has always been more, more than
[16:55] that. So it kind of breaks my heart in
[16:57] a bit. So not because he's he's someone
[16:59] that I really, really like. And you know, me and my legal
[17:03] boys, I don't, I don't joke with them.
[17:05] And of course Kamavinga is song that right from like when he
[17:09] started to emerge, I was so interested in him because I
[17:11] really, you know, just loved his play and everything and seen him
[17:14] develop. So it really breaks my heart
[17:16] sometimes when I see how he's used.
[17:18] I know that it's necessity. For instance, when you use him
[17:21] as a left back. I know it's necessity.
[17:23] I know you know that he's going to do a good job there.
[17:26] That's why you're having to throw him on.
[17:28] But it still kind of breaks my heart.
[17:30] I remember maybe like 2 years ago when I said, I think it was
[17:33] two or three years ago when I said Real Madrid have to start
[17:37] phasing out moderate and cruise by giving Kamavinga.
[17:43] I think I have made a video about Kamavinga and Germany.
[17:45] You need to build that relationship by giving them more
[17:48] games together. And I'm glad that you mentioned
[17:50] it earlier that they just seem to not play together like
[17:55] enough, especially as, you know, partners rather than one person
[17:59] at left back or one person at center back or something like
[18:02] that. But together because like, this
[18:04] is the future, you know, of the team, this is what you want to
[18:07] do. This is the chemistry you want
[18:08] to be, the dynamic you want to do.
[18:10] But that hasn't quite happened. And it still looks increasingly
[18:14] unlikely that it will happen like both of them together.
[18:18] That was hope for this season, right?
[18:20] Like that was kind of a thing because we were moving past that
[18:26] where we have to feel the best 11 in terms of the quality
[18:30] rather than in terms of the profile.
[18:33] It seems that with Alonzo, we're kind of phasing that out and
[18:37] we're actually trying to build a system in which we can maximize
[18:42] the squad rather than, OK, we have this 11, this 11 is
[18:46] working. We're going to run it to the
[18:47] ground because it's getting the results.
[18:50] So look, I, I don't knock into Angelotis Madrid because they
[18:56] have had success that teams would kill to have it.
[19:00] But in terms of like the way how the players have been used and
[19:03] utilized for the majority of them, you could say that they're
[19:06] being under utilized in my eyes. For example, you mentioned
[19:12] earlier that Kamovinga's time in France, right?
[19:15] He got the number 10. He was supposed to be like more
[19:18] than just a defensive midfielder, which sadly our fans
[19:22] seem as that. I'll never see him as that.
[19:25] I don't want him as that because I think that there are more
[19:28] tools to him than him to become a Rodri without any disrespect
[19:32] or as you be Mandy case, I think that look, even show me right
[19:37] there are limitations to his game, to his ability to all of
[19:42] these guys abilities which they cannot break past with Kama
[19:47] Vinga. There is more on the engine.
[19:50] He can push that a little bit more.
[19:52] As you said, he became a great ball carrier, which he he has
[19:56] also done for us when he was asked to.
[19:59] But because OK, so now we have crews.
[20:02] We're fully we have a system that's fully dependent on crews
[20:05] to get things going. He has to drop us the center
[20:09] back when we're building out from the back.
[20:11] He has to then progress into the midfield.
[20:13] Everything has to go through him switches.
[20:16] That's basically CROWS makes up the whole system.
[20:19] Therefore players that want to be on the ball a little bit
[20:23] more, like Tramini and Kamavinda especially, they are going to
[20:26] get limited because everything is going through one player, one
[20:31] guy. The scheme isn't really helping
[20:34] them development, but rather stagnating it or at times where
[20:39] we have seen them actually just not have the confidence to be
[20:43] able to pull some of the moves that they could do with their
[20:46] eyes closed. Like if we take so many, for
[20:49] example, on the 2022 World Cup and him at Monaco, right, like
[20:56] very progressive, huge risk taker.
[21:00] And now at Madrid, you have people going like, yes, this
[21:03] team needs a controller. Yes, this team, it's like
[21:07] actually we bought him for that. We wanted a 2IN1 type of
[21:11] defensive midfielder and that's why we moved on from Casimiro
[21:14] for him and that's why we paid the amount that we paid.
[21:18] But some of the things have been taken away from his game.
[21:22] We're seeing it slowly come back with Alonzo right on this very
[21:27] short sample, a bit of a bigger risk taker throwing up a little
[21:33] bit more and that's what we kind of expected with Kamalinga,
[21:36] right? So now normal circumstances, I
[21:40] always go, OK, what angle does the coach prefer these guys to
[21:44] be like? Does he prefer Kamalinga to
[21:46] start of the right? I remember, I think it was his
[21:50] Ponce debut and he came of the right and for the minutes that
[21:56] he played he looked unbelievable.
[21:59] He was like everywhere, covering for the fullback, getting the
[22:03] ball high up the field. And sometimes you're like, you
[22:06] know, this is the player, this is when he has the confidence,
[22:10] this is when they know what they're doing with him.
[22:13] And that's kind of the player that we're expecting at Madrid.
[22:17] Which leaves me at the thing of what do you think his future
[22:21] really is? Do you think that Madrid do the
[22:25] hot sheep? They bought him.
[22:26] If we really want to be like he's one of the biggest bargains
[22:31] of the market for a while now, given the price that they paid
[22:34] for him. I know that they went for a pop
[22:37] in on the fronts or we assume so, and they came back with
[22:39] Kamadinga, which turned him into a key piece of that squad that
[22:45] won the Champions League because he was always coming on very
[22:48] fresh. Risk Taker was covering a lot of
[22:51] ground. He played just as huge part to
[22:55] winning it as any other player, really.
[22:57] So is that Kama Vinga in your eyes, somebody that we can
[23:05] expect? The younger player that he was
[23:09] of course, a little bit more tactically ingrained, I would
[23:13] say, where he makes less mistakes tactically with this
[23:16] positioning. But in terms of like the
[23:18] confidence, the things that he tries to pull, which he was able
[23:22] to do, which he still is. We see it in flashes, but you
[23:25] want consistency with that. You think that that has a future
[23:30] in Madrid and where Madrid is going?
[23:35] That's a difficult question to answer because we need to 1st
[23:39] see what Alonso's plan for him is.
[23:43] If Alonso, it's just like Alonso came in and said, yeah, so many
[23:48] is my guy, he's going to play and everything is going to run
[23:52] through him. Yes.
[23:54] Just that decision alone completely changes Germany's
[23:59] trajectory. Because if Carlo had continued
[24:03] out the way things were going, it was looking like Germany
[24:06] would have been sold within a year or two.
[24:08] Because, you know, the way the system was structured and
[24:12] everything, everything's there to look like, yeah, Germany is
[24:15] bad. It's not good enough for this
[24:17] team. It needs to be sold and all
[24:18] that. But when you have a code that
[24:19] comes in and says this is my guy, this is the person that
[24:22] everything is going to run through and I'm going to make
[24:25] this work, after a while you start to see a change and it
[24:28] just completely changes the trajectory.
[24:31] And the same thing. Just like you look at Rodrigo.
[24:35] I feel like if Angelotti continued, Rodrigo wouldn't be
[24:38] in this situation, that he is correct, no.
[24:41] That was going to be like something that we would discuss
[24:43] as the final part, you know? Yeah.
[24:45] Exactly, so in the same thing for Kamal Vinga, I think I'd
[24:50] like to 1st see what Alonso's plan for him is and how much
[24:55] Alonso wants to integrate him. Because like you said, you're
[24:59] looking for a controller and Germany is right there.
[25:02] But nobody is same as that because of the way the system is
[25:06] is running. So he's not able to do the
[25:08] things that we saw him do in the World Cup for France where he
[25:11] completely, France didn't miss Pogba as much because of him,
[25:17] because of the extra things he could do beyond just, you know,
[25:21] sitting. And winning the ball back, yes.
[25:23] Yeah, exactly. So in the same vein for
[25:26] Kamavanga, I like I said, I want to see what I also has planned
[25:30] for him. But in my head, I'm thinking, I
[25:34] really don't know because if OK, OK, first of all, if Real Madrid
[25:39] do not sign in midfielder before the window closes because those
[25:44] top was still and everything, I think there will be few as
[25:48] people fighting for sports in the midfield, which is a good
[25:51] thing for someone like I'm a winger, especially if he doesn't
[25:54] have any injury issues. Because I think if the injury
[25:57] issues continue, I did my guess to a point that they're like,
[26:00] you know what? We want availability.
[26:04] And maybe, you know, he can't do that.
[26:05] And that also reduces his chances of stamping his
[26:08] authority on the team and saying, yes, I deserve a spot
[26:12] and I need to be starting all the time.
[26:15] But like you said, he still has many of those things that we
[26:19] just haven't seen enough in Madrid, that dynamism that he
[26:22] always had. Although it's also noticeable
[26:25] that he his body has changed a bit, just like what we saw what
[26:30] I was saying about Yamal in the the previous one where I said
[26:33] his body is going to change and needs to adapt to it.
[26:36] I think I'm a finger has adapted to it pretty well.
[26:39] But the injuries happening all the time can kind of get in the
[26:44] way of that adaptation. That said, I think if Real
[26:49] Madrid go back, especially alone, so if I also should go
[26:53] back and look at and say, you know what, I see what you were
[26:57] before all of these things happened.
[26:59] I see what you are capable of. I.
[27:22] I think he lagged out on this. Sorry.
[27:28] Yeah, No worries. You just like that.
[27:30] I wasn't aware. OK, You can just.
[27:33] Go on. All right, so if if Alonso can
[27:37] sit down and look at Kamal Binga and say, I've I've seen what you
[27:41] are capable of. I know what you can do.
[27:43] I know just the way he did with Germany.
[27:45] Because if you're looking at Germany through the lenses of
[27:48] just last season and you know the problems of a lot of
[27:53] anthologic system, you're not going to come in and say Germany
[27:57] is my guy. I'm going to run anything
[27:59] through him. You'd be very quick to, you
[28:00] know, get rid of him. But if Alonso can also do that
[28:04] with Karma winger, like, OK, I've seen what you were at Iran.
[28:08] I've seen what you've been with France at certain points, I've
[28:12] seen the flashes you've shown. I know that you're capable of so
[28:16] much more that you can give this team so much more, especially
[28:19] solutions that we seem to be looking for outside.
[28:23] But the answer lies with you if that happens.
[28:27] And I'll also box him free and gives him continuity more than
[28:30] anything. For me, that's the most
[28:32] important part, continuity because today Kamal Vinga is in
[28:36] the team, tomorrow is on the bench even for important games.
[28:39] And you know you're going to need him.
[28:41] You know you're going to still throw him on to solve problems
[28:44] when you know problems arise. But you're not giving him that
[28:48] continuity of it's very important, especially at this
[28:51] stage that he has been over the past 3-4 years.
[28:55] Because I mean, look at it when you are between 16 and 22, which
[28:59] he currently is, that is the point where you want to play
[29:03] enough games. You want to also have mastery of
[29:06] a particular role or position mass.
[29:09] Because the truth is a lot of players, versatile players, it
[29:13] so happens that when they do too much versatility in those
[29:16] developmental years, they end up not having a specific role.
[29:21] Somebody I'll call is Sergio Roberto.
[29:23] I remember when Roberto was coming out and there was just
[29:26] talk about what he could be and all of that.
[29:28] And before we knew he started playing as a ride backs
[29:30] happening as this and that and ultimately he just became an
[29:34] average player because he didn't develop in a particular position
[29:37] and game mastery. So for for Kamervinga here, it's
[29:42] about gaining mastery of one particular role.
[29:45] Of course, we know that you can do other things, but if you get
[29:47] continuity in one role and developing that.
[29:50] So I think, like I said, it depends on what happens this
[29:54] season. I think it's come down to that.
[29:57] So for me it's like this. If he's giving continuity in the
[30:01] team and doesn't have any injury problems and has the freedom to
[30:04] develop in what is best at and do what he does in the role that
[30:10] is best at, I think he stays in Real Madrid for another 10 years
[30:15] and becomes a very integral part of the side.
[30:17] Just like the way we we had the Cruz, Modridge, Casimiro
[30:21] partnership that just became so established couldn't be broken
[30:26] in the same thing. You could have something like
[30:27] that. Everybody just knows that no
[30:29] matter what happens, these are the starters.
[30:32] These are the three starting midfielders.
[30:34] Because also another thing is you don't want to change your
[30:36] midfield so much all the time. Like the three people that
[30:41] you're putting in midfield or the four people or whoever
[30:43] you're putting every week, you're changing one person or
[30:46] changing it. They can't build any chemistry
[30:48] like that. It's so important, just like CB
[30:50] partnerships, there's a reason why coaches don't just randomly
[30:53] solve center backs. You want to have that chemistry.
[30:57] You want to allow them to continue to build rhythm
[30:59] together. And I think if you have a
[31:01] midfield where Tremeni and Kamalvinga can have continuity
[31:07] with each other in whatever roles that they're playing,
[31:09] board with each other, constant play with each other and
[31:12] possibly Valvedi, then you have something that you can build
[31:15] for, you know, a decade or something like that.
[31:18] But if that doesn't happen, if yeah, same, same things with
[31:22] Kamal Venga where he's coming on, They're playing him as a
[31:25] left back, play him as a striker next week.
[31:28] I don't think they'll have much of A future in Madrid.
[31:31] I mean, at this point it would be a goalkeeper, but yeah, just
[31:36] the. Goalkeeper in training.
[31:37] It was a goalkeeper in training I think one time.
[31:40] Yeah, he did, He did. Yeah.
[31:42] I, I think they were taking kind of like the mock, you know, of
[31:46] the public given how many positions he was playing, which
[31:49] kind of showed us that OK, they're self aware of what
[31:52] they're doing. But yeah, just normally like you
[31:56] said, right, this team like it's clear that the direction is
[32:02] basically going to be with four midfielders.
[32:04] Who are those 4 midfielders going to be is yet to be set in
[32:09] stone, right? You have a player like Jude
[32:11] who's like guaranteed that Valverde because of everything
[32:18] that he gives you. He's pretty much in there.
[32:20] Even though, again, don't appreciate his role, I think
[32:23] that his role should be Camavina's role and the word
[32:26] that should play a little bit more like where he's comfortable
[32:30] shutting off the flank, running up and down a little bit more,
[32:34] giving you that extra edge. I don't like Volverdev when he's
[32:39] asked to drop deep. He doesn't know how to turn.
[32:42] He doesn't have the radius of turning which Kamalbinga has.
[32:45] So it's like, does Kamalinga make mistakes in there?
[32:48] Yes, of course, but at least Kamalinga will show up for the
[32:52] ball every single damn time when he's playing on that role.
[32:55] So that's why I always wanted him left, normally just on
[32:58] paper, right? This is just some paper.
[33:00] We'll have to see when time comes.
[33:03] Jude Bellingham, Kamal Vinga Chaumeni and Federica Belgardi.
[33:07] That's literally a perfect combination of technical
[33:11] quality, I want to say tactical intelligence and I want to say
[33:17] of physicality. I know that people expected me
[33:20] to say physicality first, because that's what comes to
[33:22] mind when they think of Batman Field, but it's not really about
[33:26] the of course, the physicality makes huge ground, especially on
[33:29] the topic that we discussed last time you we were in right?
[33:33] It was a bop andini press right. If those four are the guys
[33:37] behind them, you're going to have a lot less issues, that's
[33:41] for sure. If for as long as you can create
[33:44] just a setup that enables all of them.
[33:48] I inherently have disagreed the whole summer with a narrative
[33:52] that Madrid or time for the likes of you see the name of
[33:56] somebody like Angelo Steller thrown around, right?
[33:59] And I'm like, first red flag is, well, Nagel Swan is the coach of
[34:04] Germany and he's not really there.
[34:06] Pascal Gross, who's also a player that's being shifted
[34:09] around a lot, to be honest. He's the entrusted guy right to
[34:13] take that role and like, OK, so if he can't really get into a
[34:17] Nagel Swan team, who's who more often than not he can make,
[34:22] well, just any player fit in like this.
[34:24] One of the reasons why I like him so much as a coach.
[34:28] Like he went to Byron and he had Chupa Martinez a #9 I'm not
[34:31] going to take anything from Chupa Martinez right as a
[34:34] player, but he's not exactly how it came, is he?
[34:38] Right. The guy that too old got so
[34:40] Miguel Smart was still making it thick even though the guy like
[34:44] that, even with and relatively Asian squad in some areas, some
[34:50] players that just didn't fit any sort of mole, like Leon
[34:53] Goretzka, for example, who's in all over the place.
[34:55] Like my fear with Kamabinga is somebody like Goretzka, right?
[34:59] Just a player that does not figure out what really they
[35:04] should be doing on a field and they're just being used there as
[35:08] a physical weapon to make well, to make best of.
[35:12] Somebody like Joshua Kimmage, for example, who's a little bit
[35:16] physically weaker, is not going to cover as much ground, at
[35:19] least at the necessary intensity.
[35:21] Not saying he's not going to run.
[35:22] I'm saying the necessity of the pressure that's often put on the
[35:28] ball players is way too high. Therefore a player like Goretzka
[35:32] can come in and solve that. But beyond that he's just
[35:36] stalling because he's been asked to run, run, run, run, run.
[35:41] He doesn't really get a lot of fun ball responsibilities and
[35:45] that just gives you diminishing effects when it comes to his
[35:49] trajectory. And that's what I fear that
[35:52] could have happened with Kamavina and D'Angelo the same
[35:57] way he was being used as a filler as a player that really
[36:01] just has to fill which goes to the next point, which is the
[36:06] long term. Is he a starter or a 12th man on
[36:10] the team? Because you, you, you better
[36:12] believe that with that talent that everything that he builds,
[36:16] he's a 12th man on any club really, and especially Madrid.
[36:21] He's always going to be the first that you look at.
[36:23] If you're having like, let's say things aren't going correctly
[36:28] with the results, you're always going to try to plug him in.
[36:31] Or let's say you want to turn the game around, you're always
[36:33] going to try to plug him in. Let's say that your attacker
[36:37] gets injured. You're very likely going to put
[36:40] Jude ahead and get Kamalinga on the field rather than get an
[36:43] angry con, for example. I'm just putting here examples
[36:47] of the worst of Kamalinga in the way how he's been perceived so
[36:51] far. But that talent is really
[36:56] starter talent. And I called him an Alzheimer's
[37:00] type of talent. It's not a player that just
[37:03] grows on the trees every day. Like he's not one of these
[37:07] nimble Spanish midfielders that can just turn right.
[37:10] He's more of like, I can do bits of everything.
[37:14] But you said before those bits of everything sometimes can come
[37:18] to bite you because you just become this role player, right?
[37:21] So he it's just OK, this guy has too many tools, so let's just
[37:27] try to utilize a tool every game rather than let's try and
[37:31] actually develop this whole package and give him an identity
[37:35] on the pitch which clearly has been lost.
[37:40] Like if he looks back at the move, definitely doesn't regret
[37:44] it because of the trophies that he's won.
[37:47] You have a name that he still is.
[37:50] Of course the marketing that comes with it, of course as a
[37:53] player you don't regret. But in terms of on the field
[37:56] stuff, he definitely must. At the very least a few things.
[38:01] By this age, he could have been a much better player working in
[38:05] a team like Rene where he was because they would have put all
[38:10] the emphasis to make him a full flashed product, which Madrid
[38:16] never did. And now you said with the loans,
[38:19] right? Like does Alonzo see him the
[38:22] same way how he sees Chomini? Because he came in first thing
[38:26] he says is Chomini is my guy. And you could see it right?
[38:29] Like switches 3 at the back. Chomini is leading it.
[38:32] Madridal pressing Chomini is the first guy to step ahead of the
[38:35] strings. Chomini is basically the heart
[38:39] and soul of what he's trying to do.
[38:41] I'm not saying that every player needs to be that, and I
[38:44] understand what charming is. That guy, he's like that called
[38:46] me. That ability to read the game.
[38:48] He's ready from the get go. Kamalinga still has a little bit
[38:52] of development left in him to become that cornerstone piece of
[38:57] a team as a midfielder especially.
[39:00] But I want to see more emphasis. I want to see Alonzo being like,
[39:07] I want this guy to work out because there is just too much
[39:11] on this Arsenal that he can use and this team can use.
[39:16] Like, I don't necessarily need a controller if I have a setup
[39:20] where for midfielders, they can pass the ball and out of these
[39:24] four, three of them can carry the ball at ridiculous levels.
[39:29] To me, control is not only about playing the passes.
[39:33] To me, control is about having the ground control, right.
[39:36] Am I controlling the pace of the game?
[39:39] It's not about, look, there's been one shot.
[39:42] You want any cruise? You know, like, it's not that,
[39:45] OK, we have the pleasure of having him, but it's not like
[39:48] other teams were not having control of the games at all
[39:51] because they didn't have a cruise, right?
[39:53] It's just about systematically how we're approaching this, as
[39:58] you said, France post Pogba, right?
[40:01] It's kind of been a post Pogba structure.
[40:04] Klamani couldn't really get that to France either because of
[40:08] course confidence is shattered. The risk taking is a lot less.
[40:12] So he wasn't the World Cup Klamani with the France
[40:16] continuing, which played a huge part on their declining
[40:19] performances and and you know, like.
[40:24] Now I want to go back into OK, I want to control the game and
[40:30] look, we can plug and play a lot of players, but are we always
[40:36] going to rely on a certain type of player?
[40:39] Look, even Alonzo tried to do it with Alex Garcia at Liver
[40:43] cousin, right? They got in from Verona, one of
[40:45] the highest progressive players in Europe.
[40:48] Just didn't work out because No2 squads are the same.
[40:53] No two teams are going to be playing the same and not every
[40:56] player can adapt to every circumstance.
[40:58] You saw that with the late Garcia, for example.
[41:01] Those, he was like one of the guys that early last year had me
[41:05] doubt a bit over a Lonzo, right? But then as I watched more film,
[41:10] I just kind of understood that, OK, the physical assessments are
[41:14] just a bit too much for Garcia to be able to deal with them on
[41:18] this setup. But if I alt, if Alonzo was to
[41:22] alter the whole setup, then other players were going to
[41:25] suffer from it to get Alex Garcia to to work, right?
[41:29] So now how he sees Kamaminga, does he see it like the middle
[41:33] of the ground that Andres and Alex Garcia into one which he
[41:38] can utilize his physicality but also get some on the ball
[41:43] qualities while Mappe, Vini, Jude can pick and plug other
[41:48] holes of the team. Like now we have Carreras, an
[41:51] actual left back. We have 3 left backs now on the
[41:54] team. Like I don't want to see him as
[41:55] a left back anymore, you know, and he's just are we heading
[42:00] into that direction now with Alonzo because we haven't had
[42:04] time to see due to his injuries, right?
[42:08] Finish the season, injured during rehab, got injured again.
[42:12] Even though it seems like a minor ankle problem, it's not
[42:16] something, you know, his injuries.
[42:19] Also you can tell that those are not like the same type of
[42:22] injuries. You know, it's not that he's
[42:23] suffering from a knee problem over and over and over again.
[42:27] Sometimes it's the hamstring, probably over stretched or
[42:30] overworked due to his play style.
[42:32] It can be the cold. He can get it.
[42:35] Just the wrong thing happens, you know?
[42:38] Yeah, it's more of like, OK, can they materialize his qualities?
[42:43] Season is very long. He's not going to play week in
[42:46] and week out. But I say that for every player
[42:48] given the schedules. But when he's on a field, does
[42:51] he have like set role or is just a 12th mat?
[42:56] Like, that's really the big dilemma here.
[42:59] Yeah, I I think that is very, very easy to fall into the trap
[43:06] as a manager of having a comma finger on the bench.
[43:09] Not because you don't think it's startup quality or because you
[43:13] have one player producing these solutions and problem solving
[43:17] that you'd want from 3-4 different substitutes.
[43:20] So you have that one substitute that can solve everything.
[43:23] It kind of gives me the one managers syndrome phenomenon.
[43:28] Back when I used to really play FM, if I had a player who could
[43:31] play left back, right back, center back, it will be on the
[43:35] bench no matter how good it was. Because that meant that I could
[43:40] add more attackers on the bench instead of having to have one
[43:43] left back. Because I mean, that time we had
[43:45] limits of like 7 players or five players on the bench.
[43:49] So I wanted to have one person who could be left back, right
[43:52] back, center back as covered and probably now have more forwards
[43:57] so that I could have more variety, you know, for myself.
[44:01] And in the same vein, it's kind of like that.
[44:03] It's like, OK, I want to be able to look to my bench and have a
[44:07] problem solver because if it's already on the pitch, it can be
[44:12] a bit tricky making solves where if I have a problem solver on
[44:15] the bench, any issue whatsoever, I can easily adapt by picking
[44:20] that person and training, training on.
[44:23] And that happens when you have so much depth, you have too many
[44:26] players, so you can always have that luxury of doing that.
[44:29] And Madrid have a bit of that luxury with Aragula as well,
[44:32] which brings me to the second point, Gullah and also seems to
[44:36] be a fan. Now I think it would depend
[44:40] maybe to depend on the opponent because there are some kind of
[44:43] opposition that you don't want to start Gullah if you're
[44:46] playing a midfield for you would you'd rather have a Kama Vinga
[44:49] in there for for a specific purpose rather than a Gullah?
[44:54] Because Gullah doesn't give you as much defensively or out of
[44:58] possession as a Kama Vinga gives you.
[45:00] You get some quality, Yeah, Yeah, I'm sorry.
[45:08] No, I said that like just to your orders point, right, that
[45:12] kind of became prevalent against PSG, that he's just not
[45:15] physically capable of handling those matchups, at least not
[45:20] that big. Yeah.
[45:21] So I I think that based on that, if you're playing a Barcelona,
[45:26] you probably don't start a player like you're playing a
[45:29] PSG. You probably look and say, Nah,
[45:31] I want Kama Vinga in here because it gives me so much more
[45:35] off the ball and I still get on ball quality.
[45:38] But if you're playing a analogous at.
[45:43] Home. Yeah, like, I don't want to say
[45:45] like an actually, but they got relegated.
[45:47] So, yeah, if you're playing analogous at home, like a way
[45:53] it's a bit different, but at home against all of us, it feels
[45:56] like overkill starting Kama Vinga and, you know, having all
[46:00] those. Yeah, it's like, OK, we need
[46:03] more numbers up front. So I think that that could, you
[46:07] know, play a part. But I absolutely believe that
[46:09] when it comes to the big games, the games against the big teams
[46:14] and the games are difficult venues, which would happen
[46:19] against Athletico, will happen against Valencia, will happen
[46:22] against the Real and the life, I think in, well, severe rubbish.
[46:31] Yeah, I'm just a severe hitter, so sorry.
[46:34] But yeah, in in difficult venues like that.
[46:38] Severe of course, is always a difficult venue.
[46:40] In difficult venues like that, you will definitely see a
[46:44] Kamavanga there instead of a Guler.
[46:47] So I think that's where the difference.
[46:49] So now it depends on how often either situation happens and
[46:54] even sometimes if you start to give Kamavanga more freedom and
[46:59] you start to see more from him on the ball because you've given
[47:02] him the freedom, you can now start the same as a starter
[47:06] instead of glare because you're looking at him and saying OK, he
[47:08] gives me a lot of quality on the ball just like I would want from
[47:11] glare and he's able to do some of the things that I probably
[47:15] pick glare for. So might as well just claim
[47:18] without losing anything defensively against whatever
[47:22] opponents. But it really, really depends on
[47:25] how quickly he can then decide this common season, especially
[47:29] with those injury problems. If he gets to play maybe the
[47:32] first five matches and he maybe starts 3 and he shows his
[47:37] quality, is able to show that quality consistently on the ball
[47:43] and with a bit more freedom, then I think he nails down his
[47:46] spot. Yeah, I'm with him.
[47:49] That depends on a match up like this.
[47:53] It's sort of the luxury that you have in Madrid, right, where you
[47:57] can plug and play a lot of different players based on the
[48:01] match ups. As I said, again, not always we
[48:04] have utilized those on the best. But now you have a coach that
[48:10] has shown that he wants to use every player and has faith on
[48:13] every player, which in all honesty, sample is very small.
[48:18] He's shown to do that. Like he's he's given players
[48:21] even second chances, like Ascentio got to start the PSG
[48:26] game. I know that Dean Hoisen was sent
[48:30] off, but if that wasn't Saluti, that's probably fine starting at
[48:35] central Bank, right? But he took that risk.
[48:38] And I appreciate that from him. It might have been a mistake at
[48:42] that time, right? But it's more like that's on the
[48:45] retrospect. I'm kind of enjoying the fact
[48:47] that he still has faith and belief on players can turn it
[48:51] around. Players can.
[48:54] A bad patch doesn't necessarily mean that it's the ending of him
[48:57] that doesn't. This player doesn't have to be
[48:59] in Mbappe with like 6 seasons in a row scoring 50 plus for me to
[49:04] trust him to play right. Sometimes I just let him be on
[49:08] the tough patches and then we'll see where the actual level is,
[49:12] how they bounce back, how they are psychological.
[49:15] Logically feeling like this was like at least one of the things
[49:19] with Kamalina, right? When you speak about him
[49:22] replacing our baby layer, let's say on on the 11, like the Gala
[49:26] 11, which we would call it for the begins, right?
[49:29] Which couldn't normally have a big drop off with the ball.
[49:34] You just should have a different approach with the ball because
[49:38] you go from more of like a needle passer, a more of like a
[49:43] player that wants to keep taking on a possum whale like pass and
[49:48] move. You're going to more like a
[49:50] carrier, a dribbler, somebody that can invite the pressure.
[49:54] We have seen that a lot with his back and then be able to evade.
[49:57] It is just a different way of evading the pressure.
[50:00] Ultimately reaching the same goal.
[50:03] It might be a little bit slower, but you have to adapt to the
[50:06] circumstances like this. What I say is just it's a team
[50:11] sport. It's every player needs to do
[50:14] something for you to achieve the end goal and Kamaminga just I
[50:21] want to see that confident player.
[50:23] I want to know actually, because this is the hard part of that,
[50:26] right? Normally you would want him, him
[50:28] off the right normally, right. If you want to maximize him with
[50:32] the ball, you want him off the right side to be able to cut in
[50:37] that way he has less to do with his back, receives more in
[50:40] front. Normally you want that, but when
[50:44] you see him on the left, the angles have helped him a lot
[50:47] more pass on the ball because he has a cleaner vision of where he
[50:52] should pass it. So this comes like here, you're
[50:56] facing a problem. We should get it from a coaching
[50:59] perspective where OK, do what do I really want from him?
[51:03] You know, like, or is there a way where I can expand his
[51:08] radius and just using both sides and get a similar approach?
[51:12] Yes, he can change the way how Kamalin operates with his body.
[51:16] Like that's impossible. We're not changing those
[51:18] mechanisms that he's been used for over 10 years now.
[51:21] You're not just shaping that, but can I just get him to a spot
[51:27] where he's Sweden, he has a little bit better radius, he can
[51:33] carry the ball a little bit better.
[51:35] He can't just do a little bit of everything.
[51:37] And then we're not even talking about how much he brings
[51:39] defensively because that's just a given.
[51:41] Like it doesn't matter what sort of form you have in, he's going
[51:44] to chase it. As I said, those spider tackles
[51:47] where he just puts the ball underneath somehow.
[51:50] Sometimes you see it's between the legs and he's got the ball
[51:53] out while they're in motion, which I don't know how he does
[51:57] at this point. I know that he gave like an
[52:00] interview explaining his style, but still when you look at it,
[52:05] it's just it feels unbelievable that he did it.
[52:09] And that's just for me. It's a unique piece, which makes
[52:15] me think that I would want to build with this guy.
[52:18] Like he's like top, top of my guys with Alonzo of players
[52:23] improved right players too get themselves as starters and start
[52:30] to become established midfielders in a world.
[52:33] I don't see Kamalinga as just world's best.
[52:36] I see him like 10 years from now to be considered amongst the
[52:40] greatest. You know, that's where I see the
[52:43] potential of him. But of course, it's just based
[52:46] on potential based on the arsenal that he has.
[52:49] It's not based on what he's given us so far on a pitch, as
[52:52] we said, like this podcast has been all about how he's been
[52:57] used, like so many things have been lacking the luxury of
[53:01] Madrid not helping his case at all.
[53:05] But you reach a point where stagnation hits and it feels
[53:10] last season just felt as that last season, you didn't feel
[53:14] anything new came from him. Even when he was being tiptoed,
[53:19] you know, like changed. You could see that things are
[53:21] being added to the game little by little.
[53:24] You know, even a celeb back, he was inverting in time, he was
[53:27] helping a lot and last season just felt that he's just the
[53:33] same player. It's just nothing really
[53:35] happened. You know, that's where he's hit
[53:37] the wall. Now a new coach has come in.
[53:40] Unfortunate for him is because he spent the whole summer
[53:44] injured. Like he hasn't spent any real
[53:48] minutes on the training ground with those players.
[53:51] So now the league rolls around, he just doesn't have those
[53:56] training time to really be a starter right Where because
[54:03] other players are just simply more fine-tuned into what Alonzo
[54:06] wants because he spent more time with them while this guy was in
[54:10] rehab. So he's in a bad spot where
[54:13] normally from here to start the season, you kind of count on him
[54:18] to come back with Jude. Basically when once Jude is back
[54:21] from the shoulder problem, you can expect Camavinga to be
[54:25] plugged in as a starter at that time because it's going to take
[54:28] a lot of drills for him to get to the shape.
[54:32] It's the physical shape is the tactical 1.
[54:35] And also it's a little bit of plague mentally knowing from
[54:39] where he's coming. Now there's some big change
[54:41] happening. So you mentioned earlier the
[54:44] sale of Rodrigo, which we don't know for sure if it's going to
[54:48] go through right now, but if Madrid demands for him or Matt,
[54:52] Madrid are likely to push again on the market.
[54:57] From what we have seen, we mentioned before that Madrid are
[55:01] kind of settled AT2 attackers set up.
[55:03] So they have Vinnie and Mbappe as the first two guys in there,
[55:07] Gonzalo Garcia who showed a lot of promise, Andrick who's
[55:10] robbed. But stylistically I think he
[55:14] does fit what Alonzo wants from a player.
[55:19] And you can always plug and play.
[55:21] You can always go with Mbappe only and maybe go with like
[55:26] maybe go with Franco or Brahim alongside.
[55:31] Madrid has attacking options which I don't think that craving
[55:34] another attacker with the options available, you might see
[55:38] maybe a cheap signing like but nothing major is going to be
[55:43] added to the attack. They will definitely give him up
[55:46] and we need that run to really do it.
[55:49] So normally when you look at the team, yes, if you ask me, I tell
[55:53] them just spend it all on the center back and fix that right
[55:56] center back role, get the diverse guy.
[55:59] But we see that they've been previously linked to midfielder
[56:03] right, Like it's one of the big cases and this is a heavy stack
[56:08] team when it comes to midfielder right.
[56:10] You have like so many. Let's just go with the
[56:12] guaranteed starters, so many Bellingham and Boulder.
[56:16] Those three are always going to be slaughtered in.
[56:19] So for the 4th spot you have players like Ardaglair,
[56:24] Kamavinga, Sebayos, if Sebayos stays Sebayos, I think already
[56:29] fighting for it, you know, I think.
[56:31] He's going to go, yeah, I think Sebayos is going to go to Betis
[56:34] with Isco injured now probably goes back to Betis, I don't
[56:39] think, especially with where he is in pecking order at this
[56:42] point. I also wanted to mention
[56:44] something. Yeah.
[56:46] Yeah, I also wanted to mention something.
[56:49] Kamavinga's involvement might also depend on how well Trent
[56:54] does defensive, how well he performs defensive, because
[56:58] there are question marks about his defending and all of that.
[57:02] If he happens to be that he's not as impressive defensively as
[57:07] hoped, there might be the idea to have somebody like Kamavinga
[57:12] on the pitch if trend is going to be there.
[57:15] If it's cover, all is different. But if it's strength, then you
[57:18] want someone that is going to cover just like you because your
[57:23] two full box full box are pushing like further forward and
[57:27] impacting play upfront. You want midfielders that may be
[57:31] able to cover just in case anything is happening.
[57:35] So, so that's that's also worth noting, I think.
[57:38] But again, it depends on the dynamic, depends on how much
[57:42] Madrid have the ball, especially, you know, against
[57:47] certain opponents and all of that.
[57:49] But yeah, if if, if Rodrigo goes 400 million as quoted, then I
[57:55] imagine that Real Madrid would buy a midfielder rather than a
[57:59] center back because they're still the connate idea for it.
[58:03] Summer. That's why they probably.
[58:05] Wouldn't want to splash. Yeah, the probably we want
[58:08] splash on the center back now. And they have two center backs
[58:11] out of contract next year too, like 2 of the top five highest
[58:14] paid. So they can just be like, OK,
[58:17] let's roll the dice with these guys for the season and then go.
[58:21] But then again, right 100 million a lot of times are
[58:25] complaining about this transfer window which I don't truly
[58:28] understand given that it's blocked majority of the holes.
[58:33] Yeah. What midfielder do really sign?
[58:36] Like realistically speaking, when you have that group of
[58:40] let's say Sabaya Slaves, OK, that's opening the gap now
[58:44] that's opening. OK, we make this guy's wish come
[58:47] true. We get the few million out of
[58:50] Albertese, whatever that is. As we know this final football
[58:53] is pretty, it's going to be pretty minimal.
[58:55] So we get him of the books. OK, there's a slot open now.
[59:00] Are you signing a 7th 8th midfielder on the packing order
[59:05] or are you going for a fully fledged starter?
[59:09] Because sorry to say season is starting.
[59:13] How are you going to find a fully fledged starter at this
[59:16] like? Yeah.
[59:18] For Madrid, it's a little bit different than any other club
[59:21] because we're not really looking for that project that Man United
[59:25] are going for ballet, right, And willing to pay our milk.
[59:28] You you don't get that. You know they want the
[59:32] established player to be in. Yeah.
[59:37] That established player is not really available.
[59:39] Like that would have been available when Subi Mandy was
[59:42] kind of pushing, Not pushing, sorry.
[59:45] Delaying the signature for Arsenal despite them having
[59:49] already reached an agreement between clubs.
[59:51] He was a little bit delayed. My theory always was that he's
[59:55] waiting for either Spanish club, like maybe all three of them,
[1:00:00] Atleti Madrid or Barcelona to make the call for him.
[1:00:04] So if Zubi Mendi's gone. From the equation, if you really
[1:00:09] wanted that passer controller with a little bit of like and
[1:00:12] you wanted to switch it 3 and back, let's say, giving so many
[1:00:15] of that freedom to be in midfield and then drop back as a
[1:00:20] latter coverage, that's gone. You lost that player.
[1:00:25] Therefore you you didn't bank on being able to sell Rodrigo or
[1:00:28] you didn't believe. So that opportunity is now gone.
[1:00:32] You don't have another Zubimander in the market.
[1:00:34] You don't have a player of what quality that you can sign, so
[1:00:39] wouldn't it be better for you to bank on Kamalinga and Gulen?
[1:00:44] 100%. Developing.
[1:00:46] I I think that looking at the way Madrid have been moving in
[1:00:52] the market over the last few years, if they sell Rodrigo,
[1:00:56] it's fine. Nobody.
[1:00:58] They'll just keep the money and wait for next summer.
[1:01:00] This. Is very good they could do that,
[1:01:03] but it feels that they have a lot of interest in a few
[1:01:07] different players right, but they only bought Carreras after
[1:01:12] they saw that he's a must rather than you know, like rather than
[1:01:17] before he tested like Dean Hoisenlein from the get go.
[1:01:20] They just went like we need this guy they signed him E Franco
[1:01:24] they went like we need this guy they signed him.
[1:01:27] He's just Madrid vice players based on necessity right.
[1:01:32] It's not like they will go around and splash that money,
[1:01:36] but I feel that they even themselves believe that this
[1:01:39] squad needs a little bit more. But if we get, let's say, 100
[1:01:44] million for Rodrigo, you don't have to wait for next year to
[1:01:49] send Konate or Saliba with any of the plans that they're going
[1:01:53] with. Both Arsenal and Liverpool right
[1:01:56] now are on that threat. But we could lose this guy for
[1:02:00] just like Liverpool lost already tracked.
[1:02:04] You already have a leverage there and you're plugging the
[1:02:08] hole for me. You're plugging the hole
[1:02:10] instantly. You're getting that right center
[1:02:12] back that you said also with Trent, right?
[1:02:16] Yeah, Konata, you also have that previous chemistry between them
[1:02:20] two or is going to be different circumstances, but you have
[1:02:23] that. But the Saliba, arguably one of
[1:02:25] the better center backs in world of football, like very, very
[1:02:30] good. I'm not the biggest fan of him,
[1:02:32] but I am appreciative of the talent, right.
[1:02:36] So what were you doing or are you are you going as we
[1:02:43] mentioned that isn't really that bona fide may feel like you just
[1:02:46] sign and it becomes star like if any fan out there is thinking
[1:02:52] that Angelo Stella is going to come to Madrid and be that
[1:02:55] starter. It's just something it's just
[1:02:59] not gonna. I know that you like the
[1:03:00] profile. I know that you have seen him
[1:03:03] have a little bit pause at his game, pick his passes, but.
[1:03:08] It just a whole. Different story, you know, like
[1:03:11] it's even when we look at the players, I like to look at the
[1:03:16] data, right? But I also like to put context
[1:03:19] behind the data. Where is he playing?
[1:03:21] What is he really doing right? Like not always like David
[1:03:24] Dallava was like at let's say almost 7 progressive passes at
[1:03:29] Ben Mini came to Madrid, 2.84 per game, right?
[1:03:34] And he was our highest progressor because the coach
[1:03:36] that was Angelotti, right? It's a different circumstance
[1:03:40] when you're playing and you're looking at the team, you need to
[1:03:42] look it as a whole as what is going to be the 11, what is
[1:03:46] going to be the match. This when I say like I would
[1:03:49] much rather go for a cheap option, but we literally have a
[1:03:54] Nico Paz who did well with Como because I wouldn't rather want
[1:03:59] to plug that hole on the attack in the field.
[1:04:03] I don't want to leave Jude that many minutes and try to maybe
[1:04:09] Vinnian and Papi need to rest, need to do something.
[1:04:12] I always have that option to add plug another more offensive
[1:04:16] minded player. I'm thinking of it from that
[1:04:19] perspective rather than the perspective of OK, we need a
[1:04:22] controller badly because this team just doesn't have enough of
[1:04:25] the ball. Madrid was people don't believe
[1:04:28] this. Madrid had the most passes in La
[1:04:31] Liga last season. Did they control the game?
[1:04:33] No, they were just playing passes for the second pass.
[1:04:37] Right. Like, yeah, that's the thing of
[1:04:39] it. Having more passes doesn't mean
[1:04:42] that you have controlled the game more.
[1:04:44] Yeah, a lot goes into it. So I just I just hope they
[1:04:50] signed the right center back. The right center back role is
[1:04:54] just don't be too. Optimistic.
[1:04:59] Don't be too optimistic. It is very optimistic, but when
[1:05:05] you look at our options, right, like you look at the options,
[1:05:08] it's Militao 2, nice ACL. Literally if we go with Rudiger,
[1:05:15] he what? He played the whole last season
[1:05:17] in pain until he broke down at the end.
[1:05:19] Then you saw how he came back. That could have been rushed.
[1:05:22] I don't know what's happening with three together, but are you
[1:05:24] really going to take a shot there at the guy over the age of
[1:05:27] 30 with a lot of mileage? Then we're talking about 3 at
[1:05:30] back, which would be like Carvajal would fit that slot in.
[1:05:35] That's the right center back, yes.
[1:05:36] A guy that tore his meniscus and ACL at the same time last season
[1:05:41] and hasn't played football really.
[1:05:44] I mean, if we want to count those little minutes against
[1:05:46] PSG, we can. But those were like friendly.
[1:05:49] OK, just go and you know, let's just try it out.
[1:05:53] You know, it's not. He hasn't played serious
[1:05:55] football basically since the moment he got injured.
[1:05:58] The age, the middle age. He's been a starter from from
[1:06:01] Madrid since 2013. Also player that previously even
[1:06:05] has shown heart problems on top of everything.
[1:06:08] So it's like you don't really have a real OP on that side on
[1:06:14] midfield. I'm still, I'm still finding
[1:06:16] options. It's Kamarinka.
[1:06:18] It's a regular. If you're signing a pause,
[1:06:20] Franco clearly wants to be more of like an inside type of
[1:06:25] player, not like a flash. I'm finding options for the
[1:06:29] midfield to plug the hole at least for the season and see
[1:06:32] where it goes for the center back roll.
[1:06:35] I just can't. It's just for me, it's just the
[1:06:39] rest are warm on the center back.
[1:06:41] It's just way bigger you. Actually do need to yeah, you
[1:06:45] actually do need to sign a center back.
[1:06:48] But I think the problem is do they do to alone?
[1:06:53] So what they did to Carlo because they kept rejecting the
[1:06:58] opportunity to sign every season and just like, OK, make it work.
[1:07:04] You have this place, make it work.
[1:07:05] Even though, I mean, it's it's crazy.
[1:07:07] Alibi has had long term injuries, but it has had long
[1:07:11] term injuries. Caval has had that as well, like
[1:07:15] you mentioned. And then you are like you're
[1:07:18] really short and you want to use three at the back or you might
[1:07:22] use three at the back. So that means that you're using
[1:07:24] more people there. So you need you.
[1:07:27] Don't even have players to play 3 at the back, you know, like
[1:07:31] because when I say saliva and Kanata, he's ultimately two
[1:07:35] different players, right? But if I have saliva, I'm
[1:07:38] plugging him as a central central back and then I'm more
[1:07:41] comfortable to get the right center back, even if he's a
[1:07:43] little bit, you know, because I know that I have the proper
[1:07:47] coverage later. And then I have a Chua mini
[1:07:50] field available where they have a comma Bing, I have a Jude.
[1:07:52] I have a lot of options to back from.
[1:07:54] I'm way more comfortable with that.
[1:07:58] If we're saying Konate, we're strictly saying a more athletic
[1:08:04] right center back. Who's going to cover for Trent?
[1:08:07] He can allow you to play 3 of back.
[1:08:08] It's going to be a little bit more flawed like we saw on Club
[1:08:12] World Cup with Charmaine kind of playing the role as a
[1:08:15] midfielder. So you need to sort that like,
[1:08:20] okay, I'm I'm going to hit you here.
[1:08:23] Like mascara was one of them. I you know, like, okay, if
[1:08:27] you're not going to splash big, at least splash where it's
[1:08:30] needed. He would have been a perfect
[1:08:32] right center back for us like that mini Konate who can develop
[1:08:36] or not, but he didn't cost a fortune.
[1:08:39] Even if we say that Valencia, Madrid don't have the best
[1:08:42] relation. Actually, how would it be like?
[1:08:45] You know, like I still would have been like, OK, 30 million
[1:08:48] if I'm getting 100, just give me this guy because I want to give,
[1:08:51] give him a try. You know, like I want to test
[1:08:53] the waters with him. And he will always have a resale
[1:08:57] value due to his age. So he's not going to be a player
[1:09:00] that's going to be stuck. He's not going to come there and
[1:09:02] take 20 million a year. My second option to him was
[1:09:05] Louis Bada, right? We saw a 30 million offer being.
[1:09:10] Yeah. You know, like a 30 million
[1:09:13] offer was accepted by Sevilla for him.
[1:09:16] I believe that he's one of the better central backs in La Liga.
[1:09:19] Yeah. 30 million, he himself turned it down because he didn't
[1:09:24] want to go and play. But Madrid are rather taking the
[1:09:29] risk. Look, ultimately we have two
[1:09:33] players of the contracts next season, which we don't have to
[1:09:36] already if we really want to be honest, like Rudiger and our
[1:09:39] work in both. That's two of the top five
[1:09:42] highest earners because of how we signed them due to them being
[1:09:45] free agents. So of course they are given that
[1:09:48] lucrative contract. So those two are of the books
[1:09:54] next season anyways. So there isn't much to bother,
[1:09:59] you know, like there isn't much to be like, OK, but if I sign a
[1:10:03] cent back, Rudiger has three years left, Alibi has three
[1:10:06] years left. I might be disrupting things.
[1:10:09] You're not really having that. You don't have that issue.
[1:10:12] I think both of these guys are probably aware that Alibi's not
[1:10:16] getting an extension at all. And Rudiger might get a one year
[1:10:21] extension at best with his role being slimmed and of course his
[1:10:26] wage is being way of what they are right now.
[1:10:29] So this is kind of like how I would see the plant, both
[1:10:34] Mascara and Buddy very young. So there is talent to develop.
[1:10:41] There is time and you also still have these guys.
[1:10:44] It's not like Mascara and Buddy are going to come and are going
[1:10:46] to the bond. You OK?
[1:10:47] There are 80 games I'm going to be a starter and 65 of them or
[1:10:50] I'm not coming. You know, like you don't get
[1:10:52] that naturally you wanna plug and then like Carreras has fixed
[1:10:58] a lot, has fixed a lot of the problems when I say like Dean
[1:11:01] Poison, for example, like he's the only real progressor of the
[1:11:05] team out of the back outside of trend, right.
[1:11:08] So, but if you're going with the three at back style, Alvaro
[1:11:12] Caranas plays there as a deep line fullback who can plug in as
[1:11:19] a central bank at times and you can play from with them more
[1:11:22] energetic dynamic. We saw Zidan using Mehndi and
[1:11:26] Marcelo the same way a few seasons ago.
[1:11:29] That can work, but you're just looking at the right side or the
[1:11:34] center, whichever, because this is how big the hole is here and
[1:11:39] the talk being about the midfielder.
[1:11:41] I'm just not understanding. My fear is that they go after a
[1:11:44] midfielder somehow try to be lucrative, being like OK, you
[1:11:47] can be a starter. We willing to play X amount,
[1:11:50] whoever that midfielder might be, because I don't even have a
[1:11:54] name on top of my head. You can touch the PSG
[1:11:56] midfielders because everybody talks about them.
[1:11:59] Those guys are not touchable like Jean Neves, Vitania.
[1:12:03] Those two are not going to be touched right, not possible.
[1:12:07] So who exactly is that play Rodri?
[1:12:11] Like are you going to go to Manchester City now and tell
[1:12:14] Manchester City? Hey look Rodri, I would kind of
[1:12:18] like to sign. I don't think they're going for
[1:12:20] that, you know, like the names is just.
[1:12:25] They're just not. No options, just not, you know,
[1:12:28] you don't have a Marco Varati anymore who was trying to push
[1:12:30] out of PSG at one point, you know, and maybe you should.
[1:12:34] Even then, Barcelona didn't stand the chance, right?
[1:12:36] But he was at least trying to get out and he was that profile.
[1:12:40] You don't have that sort of player on the market anymore or
[1:12:44] really on football. Like, if you really wanted to
[1:12:47] take a swing at midfielder, why not swing at Pogba and see where
[1:12:50] it goes when he was a free agent, right?
[1:12:53] Like, you know, the talent is there, the experience is there.
[1:12:56] Why not take a swing with a free agent?
[1:12:58] But instead, he's much more safe.
[1:13:00] I'm not wrong, right? Monaco.
[1:13:03] Monaco sorry. So you allow, not allow, but at
[1:13:09] least take a swing with a high profile and see where it goes.
[1:13:12] You know, like it's not like he has committed like murder and
[1:13:15] you don't want to be associated with them.
[1:13:17] Like it's even bad that he turned out to not even be guilty
[1:13:21] of what he was charged. It was just a mistake that
[1:13:25] happened, which can be normal. So when you take a swing at the
[1:13:28] player like that fool by the way you have chased for like 10
[1:13:31] years anyways. So yes, a little bit more Asian
[1:13:36] must buy a midfielder, yeah. If you must sign a midfielder,
[1:13:39] that was the kind to go for, yeah.
[1:13:43] I guarantee that Pogba would have been fine with a lower
[1:13:45] contract in a year to get himself to show, you know. 100%.
[1:13:50] You know, 100, you let Modrich go, right?
[1:13:54] Which, in my opinion, as sad as it is, it was time, you know,
[1:13:58] it's just time to let the team breathe.
[1:14:01] You're finally fully out of that era basically you're not really
[1:14:05] outside of Cara Hall, you're not really looking back at the three
[1:14:09] P team and going like, OK, so you move from that and Cara
[1:14:13] Hall. I'm not saying that Madrich
[1:14:14] wasn't a useful piece, but given the how little right backs that
[1:14:18] are, Cara Hall is basically going to be the best shot that
[1:14:22] you have anyways on the market for a replacement of the track.
[1:14:27] So I don't like the trajectory of where the money might go.
[1:14:34] And this is the reality of it. If they keep the money, I'm fine
[1:14:37] with that. I'm more fine than keeping the
[1:14:39] money, than swinging and big without testing, you know,
[1:14:44] because things can turn sour very quickly.
[1:14:48] Like let's say, let me sell. Let's say that because when you
[1:14:53] look at the team, he would be the most likely guy to leave
[1:14:56] next summer. He might stay this summer around
[1:14:58] next summer. He's probably won.
[1:15:00] Now imagine you give Kamavina a coach that's going to nurture
[1:15:04] him, right? And then you're thinking like,
[1:15:07] OK, I have to work against this guy now.
[1:15:09] You know, like, he becomes that stable player you mentioned
[1:15:14] Pedria earlier with injuries. He becomes that physically
[1:15:18] stable player who doesn't get injured and just can run around
[1:15:22] your whole midfield because he doesn't struggle.
[1:15:25] You know, it doesn't really have any sort of weakness and the
[1:15:28] coach can develop it and you're losing him because you just
[1:15:32] wanted to spend big for the spending of it.
[1:15:37] Or we're talking about Alex Garcia, for example, which was
[1:15:40] another name thrown around. Yes, I'm fine if he comes to
[1:15:44] replace the BIOS. I'm not fine if he's coming to
[1:15:46] become a sorter. I'm going to say that because
[1:15:49] he's not a sorter at Madrid. Yeah.
[1:15:54] It's just not everything and everybody can work everywhere.
[1:15:58] Like you're not going to get the Girona like he he's not being
[1:16:01] coached by Michelle. He doesn't have, as we say, the
[1:16:04] keys to the team. He doesn't have those at Madrid
[1:16:07] because there are a lot more due to the talent pool.
[1:16:10] There are a lot more like things that have to go with the team to
[1:16:15] be maximized. Like you want them back to play
[1:16:17] sometime. You want Judas and the way you
[1:16:19] want Vinius and tonight and for the most part this one outlook
[1:16:25] on this like if you have any opinion, like an outsider's
[1:16:27] opinion on how you see that. Well, I think that if Madrid get
[1:16:35] 100 million, they should just thank now.
[1:16:40] Yeah, unforgettable. But it's different for us while
[1:16:45] looking from outside the club all together.
[1:16:49] And I'm even talking about like even the fans of the club were
[1:16:52] also looking from outside is different.
[1:16:55] The mentality is different from how the club itself thinks.
[1:17:00] I mean, there's a reason why fans have been complaining for
[1:17:03] years about transfer business because obviously, just like you
[1:17:08] said, even for like some like, mascara is Spanish.
[1:17:12] He's there for taking his cheap. He wants to leave because Muska
[1:17:16] made it very clear he wanted to leave.
[1:17:18] He was not signing a new contract, had one year left.
[1:17:20] And then I was seeing reports that they were waiting to sign
[1:17:24] him for free. Yeah.
[1:17:27] That's that's was my assumption too, that.
[1:17:30] Like the fans don't think like that.
[1:17:32] The fans will be like, yeah, sign him now because there's
[1:17:36] literally no risk involved. At worst it doesn't work out.
[1:17:40] You sell him for twice what you bought him and it would someone
[1:17:44] would still buy, right? But the club does not think like
[1:17:47] that. I don't think they think like
[1:17:50] that. So they get 100 million for
[1:17:52] because I've seen the Rodri rumors and it doesn't make any
[1:17:55] sense. First of all, Rodgers coming
[1:17:57] from a long term injury, which means that you have to wait to
[1:18:01] see what he looks like post injury, whether he's still the
[1:18:06] same player and if you are going to actually sign him now, you're
[1:18:11] going to drop a lot of money and you can't drop a lot of money
[1:18:15] for a player whose fiscal status you are not sure at this point.
[1:18:20] Even past his prime years. Exactly.
[1:18:23] Giving his age and everything, you know, OK, you don't want to
[1:18:27] take that kind of gamble, but somehow there are links and it
[1:18:32] looks like something that they probably have thought about or
[1:18:34] something. In that case, from the outside,
[1:18:37] you're wondering like, what are they thinking?
[1:18:41] I, I, I, you know, for me, I do understand that whole rumor for
[1:18:46] for someone like Stella, I can't see him being a starter.
[1:18:50] I see him more like I I'll see a trajectory of like A and yeah, I
[1:18:57] meant comes in in a year or two. He's gone.
[1:19:03] That that's the issue though, with his style.
[1:19:06] You know he wants to be on a pitch because his style
[1:19:09] controller demands it. So you're signing a controller,
[1:19:16] but you're not playing him. So therefore you're.
[1:19:20] Yeah, right. Yeah, basically you signed him.
[1:19:25] He was promising he did fit them old.
[1:19:27] But most cases, controllers just can't be on a bench.
[1:19:31] Like they just can't because they want to be hot at all
[1:19:35] times. They want to touch the ball as
[1:19:37] much as possible. So yeah, I agree with you 100%
[1:19:41] on that. But there is this external
[1:19:45] pressure now on the club to be successful this season, given
[1:19:48] the season, you know, like that's why so many changes
[1:19:51] happened from the coaching staff to the scouts, You know, like
[1:19:57] from the coaching, like Madrid have done huge overhaul on the
[1:20:02] inside to be prepared for what's coming this season.
[1:20:07] It's one of the youngest, top, top teams in the world,
[1:20:10] literally like Vulverde is probably going to be the.
[1:20:14] Oldest player on the 11 outside of Courtois.
[1:20:17] Do they sang Konati? Yeah.
[1:20:18] Do they sang konati? That would be because Rudiger
[1:20:22] would probably be that guy, but Courtois over 30, Rudiger over
[1:20:29] 30. Everybody else is 27 and yeah,
[1:20:33] you know, and he's just OK. That's a big pressure on a
[1:20:39] pretty young team. Yes, this team has won is shown
[1:20:42] that it's a pretty young, relatively young team.
[1:20:45] Like there are a lot of years to get out of them.
[1:20:47] So you don't want to make rushed decisions.
[1:20:49] But if you go and sank Canada, let's say this summer because
[1:20:52] Liverpool fears Trent, right? And let's say the long term
[1:20:57] trajectory of Alonzo is to play with three at the back, you
[1:21:01] still have a slot over for Saliba.
[1:21:03] If you really want to go into that trajectory of I want
[1:21:08] Saliba, I want Konate, and I want, you know, like this is my
[1:21:13] 3. Stylistically, the three of them
[1:21:16] fit perfectly well with one another and I still have left
[1:21:23] the gap. You know, it's not that I'm
[1:21:25] signing Kunate or as we said, like mascara.
[1:21:28] I feel it because for all you know, mascara could have come in
[1:21:31] and just looked like a world beater.
[1:21:34] We have seen like those players with unfortunate events like
[1:21:37] mascara was Courage by Aruba Mara for, you know, the longest
[1:21:40] time. But you could tell that there is
[1:21:42] a lot of quality on him, a lot of physicality on paper.
[1:21:47] Again, we don't know how these translate.
[1:21:50] We, we just can't, you know, we can make assumptions.
[1:21:54] Yeah. We can make assumptions, but we
[1:21:56] don't know how it translates. But on paper and what we saw, he
[1:22:00] should have been a great right center back on a back three or
[1:22:05] on a back 4 for Trent. To be like, Interestingly,
[1:22:11] Moscow can play on the left side of defence comfortably.
[1:22:16] He has also played as a right back, so he also gives you all
[1:22:20] kinds of options and it's very comfortable on the ball.
[1:22:22] So like ideally it makes sense. So it's, it's also very
[1:22:28] confusing that they didn't even try.
[1:22:30] I I found it very amusing when I saw that report that they were
[1:22:32] waiting for a year. Yeah, I wanted to wait to sign
[1:22:37] him. Oh, look, I understand that the
[1:22:39] David Via, you know, like a lot of people are not going to get
[1:22:43] this, but David Via was that dream player from Madrid.
[1:22:48] He was the guy they wanted and since that you have seen that
[1:22:53] Madrid and Valencia just don't do business.
[1:22:55] You know, it was then David Silva, You know it's like
[1:22:59] Valencia have scored Madrid when it comes to transfers for a very
[1:23:03] long. Andre Andre Gomez as well Andre
[1:23:06] Gomez. Yeah, a lot.
[1:23:08] I remember a lot. Yeah, it's just Yeah.
[1:23:13] You know. A lot of understand if you don't
[1:23:17] want to do business with that club, right normally, but this
[1:23:20] is a guy with a contract where he's telling the club that I'm
[1:23:24] not going to re sign, you know, like they have no choice but to
[1:23:28] sit down and talk with you. Because ultimately I'm being
[1:23:32] honest here. If Mascara had to pick between
[1:23:35] Madrid and Arsenal, he's picking Madrid every single day.
[1:23:38] It's not all because he would back himself.
[1:23:41] It's not only because he's staying in Spain.
[1:23:43] I think he will back himself to play a lot more in Madrid.
[1:23:47] He might back himself to play more, more than than white.
[1:23:50] I'm not I'm not saying he might back himself.
[1:23:53] But in Madrid it's that there are too many injuries, ages, you
[1:23:57] know, like a lot of players, some are alongside of the 30s.
[1:24:00] You know, it's just like, OK, so I have two choices here.
[1:24:05] And Madrid might have been less money maybe presumably at the
[1:24:10] start, but we know that we have tendencies of going a year after
[1:24:14] a player's worked out and just be like, hey, here's this wage
[1:24:17] bump because I kind of want to lock you up.
[1:24:19] Like they did that with Vinnie, did that with Rodrigo, did that
[1:24:23] with a lot of players. We have that tendency, OK, we
[1:24:25] start you low and then we up. You happened with Kamarina as
[1:24:29] well, happened with a lot of players.
[1:24:31] They start low on on because they want to see.
[1:24:34] But a player like Moscara would have probably backed himself to
[1:24:37] be like, OK, look, I can play the right back, as you said.
[1:24:40] He can even play on the left side.
[1:24:41] I can play center back. I give the coach, and let's be
[1:24:45] real. Yeah, he would just see the
[1:24:46] coach like his previous two center backs, White center backs
[1:24:51] were Edmund Tapsova and Pierre Hinka, right?
[1:24:55] Both that are relatively similar to him, athletic, young, a bit
[1:25:02] rash. I would say that that was a bit
[1:25:04] part of his game, a bit rash, but I fill those gaps like I'm
[1:25:09] that player. If I just just totally look at
[1:25:12] the film, I see myself being bad for this coach and I actually
[1:25:16] don't see any of my competition being that unless we lead out
[1:25:20] somehow. Just gets brand new knees.
[1:25:22] I back my physicality, my age, and I back myself so.
[1:25:27] I was, I was actually quite surprised.
[1:25:29] I was surprised that there wasn't more interest in him in
[1:25:34] general, especially in Spain. I thought maybe Athletico would
[1:25:37] have tried. Athletico should have gone in
[1:25:39] for 100%. Like he would have left three
[1:25:43] back there's with them. Yeah.
[1:25:45] So right back. And have they have like your
[1:25:48] ente like, OK, you know, like that would have been a bit
[1:25:51] unfair, especially for any of the women in the world because,
[1:25:55] OK, I just got past Laurente. OK.
[1:25:59] You just have to think, right, But this is what I'm saying.
[1:26:03] This is what I'm saying also from Madrid.
[1:26:05] What could the new be that like let's say that the world is
[1:26:08] covering on the right side. Why, If a player beats, they
[1:26:13] don't really have to think much with the current Russell, if I
[1:26:17] believe they'll be, you know. If a center back from one mouth
[1:26:21] is coming to be a starter in Madrid, you also have to pass
[1:26:25] yourself like OK, I've played in Spain, so first of all, there's
[1:26:29] no adaptation problem. I'm and of course for him,
[1:26:33] another attraction is you go to Madrid and get games.
[1:26:39] You're going to be in the Spanish national team, senior
[1:26:41] team. Spanish center back.
[1:26:45] Yeah, exactly. Yeah, which is like to take the
[1:26:50] same dynamic that is working already and just so that they
[1:26:54] don't have to keep changing things.
[1:26:56] So you have you and poison, you've built up a partnership, a
[1:27:00] chemistry and whatever transfer it translate into the national
[1:27:04] team. Basically, I mean, literally the
[1:27:06] whole back line could have been Spanish.
[1:27:08] Carreras, Hoisen, yeah, Moscara and Carmel, Carmel.
[1:27:12] Literally that whole back line could have been Spanish.
[1:27:15] And you know what's what was the funniest part?
[1:27:17] We had reports earlier, early this summer, Madrid want to fill
[1:27:22] the club up back with Spanish players, right?
[1:27:25] It's just OK, fine, I don't mind it as long as you find the right
[1:27:31] Spanish player like which which is why I was pushing for Nico
[1:27:34] Williams to join Madrid before that whole bar.
[1:27:38] Something happened, you know? Like I was pushing for Rodrigo
[1:27:42] to leave back then because I expected this was ultimately
[1:27:45] going to be the end goal. His agent might be trying to get
[1:27:48] him out. Whoever watched film, just know
[1:27:54] that Rodrigo was not going to fit with Alonzo.
[1:27:56] He was just not. He wants, he wants a lot of
[1:28:00] running. I'm not saying he doesn't run
[1:28:01] again, intensity running. He wants a lot of intensity
[1:28:05] running. Look at the right players that
[1:28:07] play for him. Like you had Jeremy Frimpong,
[1:28:09] you had Nathan Thea, you had Moussatiabi before.
[1:28:13] You have always these athletic wingers who can reach a very
[1:28:18] high top speed once they run behind the back line.
[1:28:21] He loves that pass and we have Trent as right back.
[1:28:25] If we have like right back that electric, right, some sort of
[1:28:30] like if we took babies making right back, yes, we're doing it
[1:28:35] would have been just fine, but we didn't have that.
[1:28:37] You look at the options. The options were Carvajal and
[1:28:40] trapped. So you're not seeing a lot of
[1:28:44] physical running from either of them behind the defensive line,
[1:28:48] right. So that's going to have to be
[1:28:49] provided by an attacker. Rodrigo was never going to be
[1:28:53] able to provide that. So that's why I wanted Nico
[1:28:56] Williams. I wanted, I don't want to see
[1:28:58] him on that. He can enroll, but he has at at
[1:29:02] Athletic Club. I don't want to see him on that.
[1:29:05] I don't think he has that. He's not becoming aim.
[1:29:07] Ultimately. He's more like a channel runner.
[1:29:10] He's more like an of the ball player.
[1:29:12] That's why he performs much better for Spain than for his.
[1:29:16] That's why his numbers look much better, because he's not the
[1:29:19] primary ball handler for Spain. You have Yamal, you have Pedry,
[1:29:24] you have the number 10 floating, you have Arzabal playing now as
[1:29:27] a man. Now those guys open the channels
[1:29:31] for him. And I was thinking like, if you
[1:29:32] have Mbappe, who wants to drop, you have Venetius, who wants to
[1:29:36] have the ball at his feet, OK, this is your view to kind of put
[1:29:40] in a channel runner with them on the attack to fit it.
[1:29:46] Here was my perfect signing of the summer.
[1:29:48] Of course, that didn't happen. A bit bummed, I'm not going to
[1:29:53] lie, because ultimately we're going to the point where no
[1:29:55] Rodrigo now, but no Nico Williams either.
[1:29:58] So there you go. If they have proactively chased
[1:30:02] that move and actually never forced Rodrigo into the Club
[1:30:05] World Cup, we would have been looking at the different
[1:30:08] scenario, right? But now we're we're at this no
[1:30:12] signing goes all Garcia time fully broke through.
[1:30:14] We don't know if he keeps it up or not, but he.
[1:30:17] Seems. He seems pretty well versed, you
[1:30:20] know, like there are small touches, there are glimpses of
[1:30:25] those things don't just go away. The confidence might, but the
[1:30:29] touch, the movement, those don't.
[1:30:32] Things might not go on his way always, he might not.
[1:30:35] He's not going to be La Liga's top scorer like he was Club
[1:30:38] World Cups. I'm just going to say that much.
[1:30:41] So now we're left with like 2 number nines that are coming up
[1:30:46] the bench and now we're left with two potentially more open
[1:30:51] source attackers and starters. And it failed that in my
[1:30:57] opinion, stat. If they don't let survivors go,
[1:31:00] if they let survivors go, that's just good.
[1:31:02] Signing another midfielder, whoever that is, like Nico
[1:31:06] Coswood being my choice, especially to replace Jude.
[1:31:10] Defense is where the problems begin and end in my eyes.
[1:31:15] And like, you have these cheap legal options, you don't always
[1:31:20] need to have a Kunate or Saliba. You don't always need to have
[1:31:24] that right. Like even Dean Hoisen felt like
[1:31:27] an external pressure to sign him because.
[1:31:29] Yeah, I. Was going to say that at first
[1:31:32] they were interested so he pretty much did fit all the
[1:31:37] criterias. Then they went like 50 million.
[1:31:40] Bit Nash. Then every club is going in for
[1:31:43] him and they just go like, you know what, let's just sign.
[1:31:45] Him. He's back.
[1:31:46] You know, is last year they passed on linear roll.
[1:31:50] I mean, I get it. It was more like a Jorge Mendesh
[1:31:54] type of thing. I don't want to deal with them
[1:31:56] rather than I don't want this player or he's so expensive.
[1:31:59] I think it was more like, OK, I want to avoid working with
[1:32:01] Mensch because he was such a bad experience.
[1:32:05] So just looking at the club, if they are interested, right on
[1:32:11] the right profiles, they know what they're doing.
[1:32:13] I'm not saying that they don't know what they're doing.
[1:32:15] They know the direction headed. It just feels that sometimes
[1:32:19] it's a little bit tattoo slow. That's my perception of it.
[1:32:25] What what's happening in August could have happened in June
[1:32:28] without any consequences. You could have told Rodrigo
[1:32:31] that. Just look for a club, you know,
[1:32:33] like you didn't need to hold him the way hold they helped him.
[1:32:38] You didn't need to give him a chance.
[1:32:39] What chance you've given a player four years into his
[1:32:42] Madrid career 5, you know, like you have seen what he can do,
[1:32:46] what sort of profile is we have seen where he's at his best and
[1:32:50] that you can't provide it. You simply just can't provide
[1:32:53] that. There are other clubs that can.
[1:32:54] This isn't about the quality, this about the profile, this
[1:32:58] about what you can offer the player.
[1:33:00] You simply cannot offer that environment.
[1:33:02] Just they sent the guy out because he was having physical
[1:33:05] and mental problems. That was the time to kind of sit
[1:33:08] out and just have a talk with them.
[1:33:10] Just be like, look, we want to see the best of you and we don't
[1:33:14] really believe that the best of you is in Madrid.
[1:33:18] They know that I refuse to believe that me from behind the
[1:33:20] screen with literally public data can tell that and they
[1:33:24] don't you know, I refuse to be like that.
[1:33:27] So you, we would like you to pick your destination where you
[1:33:32] believe you're going to be the best, get your agent to work and
[1:33:35] we're going to facilitate it. Like be a good club.
[1:33:39] You know, Madrid are kind of known to be a good club to
[1:33:42] players. They are very open doors, right?
[1:33:45] If a player wants to leave, they're willing to facilitate
[1:33:48] it. So if he goes like, no, I want
[1:33:54] to stay, I want to prove myself, then you have a completely
[1:33:56] different story. But that just removes his
[1:33:59] ability to nag at you afterwards, right?
[1:34:01] Because you told him already, you have that Exactly.
[1:34:05] But they didn't do that. And OK, he's a highly talented
[1:34:10] bowler, but profiles man. Like, you know, there is only so
[1:34:15] many name or some messy's and you know, like players that you
[1:34:19] can just log into a team and they just take the creativity
[1:34:23] level of the charts. There are only so few of them.
[1:34:27] Yeah. I don't want, I don't like this
[1:34:31] belief that you're going to see that.
[1:34:33] Like even with Yamal, right when I'm seeing the comparisons to
[1:34:36] like Messi, when they go like I couldn't believe that I'm seeing
[1:34:42] a player better than Messi, I'm like, have you actually
[1:34:44] forgotten what Messi used to do? You know, it's just like I'm not
[1:34:48] taking anything away from le minimal.
[1:34:50] You can you can sit here and tell me he's the best player in
[1:34:53] the world and it's hard to argue against it outside of his
[1:34:56] shooting, but he's not messy. I'm telling you that much.
[1:35:00] I suffered the pains of a guy being top scorer, top ass
[1:35:04] sister, you know, like you look at the sports and you kind of
[1:35:08] had to remove him and when OK, we're having a discussion about
[1:35:12] the good season now. So that's nothing football
[1:35:17] anymore at the better place for time.
[1:35:19] You know, you have like your elite players, you're on
[1:35:22] boppers, you're Hollands players who can swing the games.
[1:35:25] They're just just not going to be leading every single margin
[1:35:30] of numbers. So you need to the club was
[1:35:35] proactive, then decided to lay back, understand Club World Cup.
[1:35:39] You want to test things out, right?
[1:35:41] Like they took a risk, a huge risk, which I didn't agree.
[1:35:44] There's a tweet of mine not going for mascara, not not
[1:35:49] swapping around in Spain to begin with is very weird, right?
[1:35:52] Like, especially for that, you know, like Inigo Martinez,
[1:36:00] right? He was Barcelona's best central
[1:36:02] back in my opinion last season. Yep.
[1:36:05] And he was the facilitator of majority of the things that they
[1:36:09] were doing. I don't still remember that of
[1:36:11] Classical and Coba Del Rey. I was like, can this guy get the
[1:36:15] hell out of the pitch? Every ball is being blocked.
[1:36:19] Just really annoying, right? We do we need the Martinez for
[1:36:23] years and years, yes, he didn't always pan out with them
[1:36:26] perfectly, but when they needed him the most, when they became
[1:36:29] the most dominant again, he was their leading the charge for the
[1:36:32] defense. And there are even better
[1:36:35] central banks right on the spine.
[1:36:37] But I'll just sitting there waiting for so small and you're
[1:36:40] just going like, OK, I want, I just need the names.
[1:36:44] It's not like, you know, we're making a lot of money off the
[1:36:46] shirt sales. Don't we have enough of like
[1:36:49] superstars on the team where we kind of have to sit back and be
[1:36:53] like, who solves my problems? Like, what do I have to do here?
[1:36:59] That's how I think the club should be managed. 100%.
[1:37:04] You know the history but but, but.
[1:37:06] I should have never really been like that.
[1:37:08] Yeah, but I've never really been like that.
[1:37:10] Like if the the VR 1 you talked about once Valencia quoted, I
[1:37:15] think 50 million, it was reported that Paris said has he
[1:37:20] won the Balando? Why would I pay 50?
[1:37:23] But at that time, he was a very good fit.
[1:37:26] Like he was literally like perfect.
[1:37:29] Just bring him in. But the idea was why would I pay
[1:37:33] that for this guy? He's not, he's done nothing like
[1:37:37] he's not, he's not marketable like a Ronaldo or whatever.
[1:37:40] Why would I pay 50 million for him?
[1:37:41] But in terms of this is the guy you need right now, just go and
[1:37:47] get him pretty much. But again, I mean, that's how
[1:37:51] Real Madrid operates. And I think we kind of
[1:37:53] understand that at this point like.
[1:37:56] It's a weird operation, especially when you're
[1:37:59] overhauling, right? Like, OK, so we're changing the
[1:38:02] scouring staff, we're changing the guys of the helm, we're
[1:38:05] changing the coach. We're kind of trying to build an
[1:38:08] identity all over again. Let Modrich go for that reason,
[1:38:13] right? Because they just wanted to have
[1:38:15] like that fresh beginning with everything and then you are
[1:38:22] proactive. They were proactive at the
[1:38:25] beginning, got those players done, got the necessary things
[1:38:28] done as we started playing. Like Club World Cup in for me
[1:38:33] was like, OK, we can see where the team is before the season
[1:38:37] even begins. That right center back was just
[1:38:41] the biggest hole. Everything else was mandible.
[1:38:44] You know, like if you saw that getting overrun in your head, it
[1:38:46] was like, yes, if that happens one more time, I'm going to have
[1:38:50] Kamabinga throughout the season to plug him out there.
[1:38:53] Anything that happened with Squad, just have a solution.
[1:38:56] Except that and it's just 15,000,000.
[1:39:01] Like even if you have to pay Valencia 20, let's say, because
[1:39:05] you need to have that extra tax, in today's market, that's a
[1:39:11] steal. Valencia do not know how to
[1:39:15] negotiate steals. There are sodium for 17 million
[1:39:19] to Madrid. They sold Yarek for 10 million.
[1:39:23] Yeah, but you know, it's just I'm just thinking of the
[1:39:27] history, right? Think about it's not a good
[1:39:29] transfer history between those two clubs like volunteers just
[1:39:33] doesn't something great like Andre Gomes, as you said, we
[1:39:36] were pretty much used as a pawn for Barcelona to pay more for it
[1:39:40] basically and it's just not I. Think the last sign in The last
[1:39:47] sign in from Valencia to Madrid was Albio in 2009. 2009 yeah,
[1:39:56] yes. So that was the beginning of the
[1:39:58] second reign of Paris, basically, where he had the gap
[1:40:01] with Calderon and then he's just been Paris since.
[1:40:04] And even Albio wasn't expiring. No, I'm pretty sure he was.
[1:40:07] Same case as mascara. Yeah, it was pretty cheap.
[1:40:11] Yeah, because it was pretty cheap.
[1:40:14] Considering the quality that we were getting, it didn't work
[1:40:17] perfectly out. As I said, it's hard.
[1:40:19] I'll be old. Still made a career for himself,
[1:40:21] by the way, like you saw that Madrid didn't work out and he
[1:40:26] just, you know, he was just like dust and forgot.
[1:40:29] No, he still made a career and the pretty decent one of that.
[1:40:33] So you have this opportunity, right, like 15,000,020 for a
[1:40:39] very young player on top of it, right?
[1:40:41] Like, it's not that. Again, I always go back to the
[1:40:44] wages because the wages are what matters to me because that's
[1:40:48] when, like it stacks up on the books.
[1:40:50] It's not the player making 30 million a year who's going to
[1:40:53] challenge him, Bobby. It's a player that probably
[1:40:57] going to be like, at least you know, at the bottom end of the
[1:41:01] yeah of how much you're paying him.
[1:41:05] And he's young, Spanish, physical.
[1:41:12] Even if he doesn't work out for whatever reason, just sell.
[1:41:16] Him to. VRL, even if you don't sell him
[1:41:19] right, it's not like he's taking you always can bang on that he's
[1:41:24] younger than Ascentio. By the way, for people that are
[1:41:27] still listening to this, he's younger than Ascentio, so.
[1:41:32] Yeah. Can we actually, you know, like
[1:41:36] I just wanted them to get this right center back done.
[1:41:40] I've been warning about it since the Club World Cup.
[1:41:42] It was an obvious weakness and I don't see that weakness being
[1:41:47] addressed without the signing. Yeah, I mean, I guess we'll see.
[1:41:52] I guess we'll see after if if Rodrigo does go, then it will be
[1:41:57] very interesting to see how the rest of the window goes.
[1:42:00] If Rodrigo is sold, I'll be looking out for that.
[1:42:05] I'm very curious. Survivors.
[1:42:08] I wonder if you'll surprise us, but I'm not I'm not.
[1:42:12] I don't think that there'll be any surprises.
[1:42:15] I'm just why I'll say at the end of doing that because like you
[1:42:18] said, they were operated a little differently because
[1:42:21] there's a lot, there's a lot now at stake going to the new
[1:42:26] season. There's a lot of pressure
[1:42:28] because of how last season went and those defeats, the
[1:42:30] Barcelona. So there's a lot of pressure.
[1:42:32] So maybe they will do something a little unpredictable maybe,
[1:42:37] but I guess we'll see by the end of the window.
[1:42:40] Just yeah. So we have this month basically
[1:42:43] until until September 1st if they haven't changed the rules
[1:42:46] of the transfers because Madrid's transfer window ends
[1:42:49] usually in June. So, you know, like we're not
[1:42:52] really involved anymore like we used to be, which I kind of
[1:42:55] appreciate. So yeah, that could be like one
[1:42:58] of the things Rodrigo just leaves, they hold on to the
[1:43:01] money for next year. And that that's when kind of
[1:43:05] like the second assessment goes, Rudiger maybe goes all of our
[1:43:09] goals that are more open spots. It makes sense.
[1:43:13] But not for a team that wants to compete unless we don't put that
[1:43:17] pressure on the coach, right? Unless we tell the coach that,
[1:43:21] hey, for as long as you show those good things, even if you
[1:43:23] don't fully deliver on XXX, we're still back, you know?
[1:43:28] But I think that it's a little bit like, OK, we can see the
[1:43:32] glaring hole from the screens and not much that the coach can
[1:43:36] do to change it with the current players, at the very least for
[1:43:39] what you're trying to compete for.
[1:43:42] But yeah, that's for the most part like my take on it, like an
[1:43:46] Mbappe, Vinnie and those guys maybe carry you to La Liga.
[1:43:49] Yeah, they can, of course. But I personally just don't like
[1:43:55] such big flaw being seen. Like everybody's focused on the
[1:43:59] control and I'm they're like, well, that's the ball over the
[1:44:02] top of the right center back. Yeah, that's going to be the
[1:44:04] killer, not the left controller. That's how I'm saying it.
[1:44:09] Yeah, sure. Sure.
[1:44:11] All right. We have gone long enough.
[1:44:13] Thanks to everybody who made it here and thanks to you for
[1:44:16] committing such long time. Sure.
[1:44:20] Thing thank you for having me, it's been fun.
[1:44:25] I always love talking about my league on boys, so always
[1:44:28] excited for that. Yeah, yeah, we're going to see,
[1:44:32] maybe we do a preview of Valencia against Madrid.
[1:44:35] We're going to. Have some fun there.
[1:44:37] Yeah, that should be fun. Definitely.
[1:44:40] I definitely have some when we play at my style.
[1:44:45] So yeah, thanks. Everybody mentioned the checkers
[1:44:48] everywhere. We're on spot.
[1:44:50] We're on Spotify podcast, we're on Apple podcast, we're on
[1:44:54] YouTube. Check Cerroni.
[1:44:57] Great takes. Thanks again.
[1:45:01] Who's this? Been a tiring 1.
[1:45:03] So yeah, bye everybody.

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