# Liverpool v Real Madrid Preview, Trent's Return To Anfield

An episode of [The Real Deal: A Real Madrid Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1807821669), 29 Oct 2025, 1 h 10 min.

Audio: https://anchor.fm/s/103607aa8/podcast/play/110404861/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2025-9-29%2F410221088-44100-2-df9e61d246abe.mp3

Josh Williams (as seen on Anfield Wrap, LFC TV et al) joins Siddharth Ramsundar to discuss Liverpool v Real Madrid from a tactical perspective. What went wrong with Liverpool's rebuild after signing Wirtz, Isak, Kerkez and Frimpong? Was the 'galactico' approach from Michael Edwards, RIchard Hughes and FSG a bad fit for Liverpool? How much do Liverpool miss Trent and what about his shy start to life at Real Madrid? How has Xabi Alonso used Trent?

## Transcript

[0:01] Do you like our intro video with Jude and Vinny and Bape taking
[0:05] notes tactically? You like that?
[0:07] I was going to say that's very, very cool.
[0:09] And so yeah, it's, it makes you realise that the players that
[0:12] Romans have had over the years, unbelievably.
[0:15] Yeah. Oh, amazing players.
[0:16] Yep, that's what I want to do. Kind of show off our history,
[0:19] the six Champions Leagues. And also, I got to add Trent
[0:22] Alexander Arnold to that list at some point.
[0:25] Yeah, not quite yet. Not quite yet.
[0:28] Not quite yet. Well everyone, today we have a
[0:30] very special guest, Josh Williams, who is honestly my
[0:33] favorite Liverpool analyst, one of the top Liverpool Anderson
[0:36] game. Been following him for many
[0:38] years. He's been on the Anfield rap,
[0:39] LFCTV, runs his own sub stack. Josh, you want to tell everyone?
[0:44] Some of these people might, you know, Real Madrid fans sometimes
[0:46] just think about Champions Leagues, only they don't know
[0:48] everything outside. If you want to tell everyone
[0:50] about yourself a little. Well, to be fair, Liverpool runs
[0:54] a little bit like that as well. But yeah, I mean, I've, I've
[0:58] been covered in Liverpool for a good few years now.
[1:00] When I try to cover specifically, in my opinion,
[1:03] stuff that matters and the stuff that matters is not, you know,
[1:07] referees and feelings and emotion and things like that.
[1:11] I focus a bit more on tactics, a bit more on data.
[1:15] I've got a book as well, Data Game, that tells the story of
[1:20] how Liverpool kind of conquered the world of football on the
[1:23] Yeagen Clock, but without putting too much praise on
[1:26] Yeagen Clock. It's, you know, a bit more of a
[1:28] focus on the story behind it with the owners and Michael
[1:31] Edwards and all that sort of thing.
[1:32] And I'm also on me way to YouTube as well, Youtubers in
[1:36] the works. So that's next on my agenda.
[1:39] But yeah, I like to think that I'm the Liverpool tactics guy,
[1:43] really. So hopefully today I'll I'll
[1:44] live up to that. Yeah, Yeah, I mean, I didn't, I
[1:48] didn't realize your book is about data itself.
[1:50] And I love that because I think tactics, data, understanding
[1:53] people, the stories behind who's in charge of what, how they
[1:57] execute, those are the things that matter.
[1:59] And you seem to have the whole picture.
[2:00] Super excited to talk to you about things.
[2:02] And yeah, over here, I always tell our viewers, Michael
[2:05] Edwards is one of our big competitors of Florentino Perez
[2:07] as on the executive level, what he's achieved with your budget
[2:10] is great. And and that's where, you know,
[2:13] this summer was super interesting because you have
[2:16] this guy who you who per dollar per euro, per pound, however you
[2:21] want to say it took a team so far was the architect along with
[2:25] Klopp, but especially the way they got Andy Robertson, where
[2:28] they sold Coutinho, the the marginal gains they found with
[2:30] the signings were so big. You go splurge 450 million this
[2:34] summer, you lose Trent and well, obviously things haven't gone
[2:38] too well to start. And you know, I've saw your
[2:41] thing that one of the things that inspired me to even reach
[2:44] out to you. I saw your clip about how you
[2:47] have a lot of great attackers, but the ball's not getting up to
[2:49] them too much like last season, whereas last season you had
[2:53] maybe different attackers, but a high volume, but the ball got
[2:55] for them very easily. And how's life been this season?
[2:58] What? How's this big rebuild gone for
[3:00] you guys? So far it's gone very badly.
[3:03] I would say it's insisting because we, Michael Edwards is
[3:07] back at the, is back in the, in the building, let's say, but
[3:11] he's not really running the recruitments.
[3:13] Or I mean, he might be involved with it.
[3:15] We don't really know too much. But the sporting director now
[3:18] is, is Richard Hughes, who was previously sporting director for
[3:23] Bournemouth. He appointed the likes of
[3:26] Ireola, you know, we, he, he was involved in getting in, you
[3:31] know, Simenyo and Zabani and, and players like that for, for
[3:34] Bournemouth. And now they well, certainly
[3:36] last season they really thrived on the back of Richard Hughes's
[3:39] recruitment over a long period of time.
[3:43] So he's now at Liverpool. His first window consisted of
[3:46] virtually nothing. He signed Federico Quieso for
[3:48] about 10 million and he basically said to Anna, slot
[3:52] your, your squad is already really good.
[3:55] I haven't been in the building for very long to get my, I was
[3:58] in order. So just manage this and we'll
[4:01] attack the next window, we'll attack the next drummer.
[4:04] And that's definitely what he did.
[4:07] And Liverpool spends a lot of money on a, well, lots of really
[4:13] talented individuals, I would say.
[4:15] And it's been, it's been compared in many ways to a
[4:18] typical Real Madrid summer in the sense that tactics have
[4:23] almost been an afterthought. It's been more of a focus on
[4:28] quality, more of a focus on individual level.
[4:31] If you think of the players Liverpool have both
[4:33] individually, they're all really good players and and I think if
[4:37] Liverpool tried to sell them now, they would be markets for
[4:40] them. You know, Hugo, Etique,
[4:42] Alexander, Isaac, Jeremy from Pong, Milos, Kerkez, Giovanni
[4:48] Leoni was a really talented open common player and obviously
[4:51] slowly in vets. So it's a really talented group,
[4:55] but I think the problem that we've encountered this season is
[5:01] if you put them all on the same pitch together, it's difficult
[5:04] to get them all thriving. If you think of Ekatika, Isaac
[5:09] and Vet in particular, they all want the same space and it's
[5:14] similar with Kerkus. Kerkus is pretty close to them
[5:16] as well, wanting a similar space.
[5:19] Primpong is, obviously we know what Primpong is like, very
[5:22] high, very wide. Anything else doesn't work for
[5:25] them, so to get them all singing from the same hymn sheet is has
[5:30] proved to be difficult so far for Liverpool.
[5:32] And I think the big the big developments in relation to
[5:35] Trent. One thing Liverpool have become
[5:38] used to over the years is getting progression from their
[5:41] fall back to Parliament. Not just Trent on one side, but
[5:44] also Andy Robertson on the other side, and they've both come out
[5:48] the team at once with Trent going surrounded obviously and
[5:52] Robertson getting benched for Kerkers, who is talented.
[5:57] But he's only 21 and he's a bit more of a runner, bit more of a
[6:01] carrier than a passer. So suddenly it does feel a
[6:05] little bit like Liverpool and quite escaped their own half
[6:08] with the same degree of accuracy or or ease without rent, just
[6:16] being a bit of a quarterback for the team.
[6:18] Robertson, you know, with no longer passing for the team,
[6:21] he's on the bench all the time and it's maybe shined a bit more
[6:25] of a light on someone like a Gravanberg who is not a
[6:29] conventional 6. He's a bit more of an 8 really
[6:32] in disguise. I think when you actually ask
[6:34] him to dictate a game and showcase his passing range and
[6:37] things like that, he's not really a natural when it comes
[6:41] to that sort of thing. So maybe that's been highlighted
[6:43] a bit more than it was last season.
[6:45] So lots of little minor problems in there.
[6:48] But initially the focus went and announced his departure.
[6:53] The focus was OK. Well, Liverpool can get better
[6:56] defensively then or that hasn't really happened.
[7:00] We've just got worse when it comes to build up.
[7:04] So it's it's a lot that's that's just a little, a little example
[7:08] of what we're going through with the one with there's a lot more.
[7:10] So I've been rambling already for about 10 minutes.
[7:13] So apologies for that. No worries, no worries.
[7:16] I mean, I think we needed to set the stage a little because it's
[7:19] just been a big mess. And I think you spent 450
[7:22] million, so you needed a few minutes to wade through all that
[7:24] money. But yeah, no, good point that
[7:29] they all favor the left half space, now that you say it like
[7:31] a little bit like those four guys where it's icky techy Zack
[7:36] and Kirk, as you're saying, also likes the left half space, you
[7:39] say? Well, he definitely likes the
[7:41] left and he definitely wants to be high.
[7:42] I think the problem with Kirkus is you, and this is what we had
[7:47] with Trent, wanted to be behind the ball.
[7:51] Trent wanted to be looking inside the block, inside the
[7:54] pitch. I think one of the problems
[7:56] you've got with K has is K has wants to be high and wide and I
[8:00] think if he's playing at his best he's getting crosses at the
[8:04] byline every 5 minutes. Whereas because Liverpool have
[8:09] so many forward thinking players at the moment, Kirkus is kind of
[8:11] being asked to play as part of the team's safety net, which is
[8:16] not really his profile. You might as well, you should
[8:19] have just bought a centre half, you know, like a Schlotzbach or
[8:24] something like that from from Dortmund to a profile of that
[8:26] type, someone like a, a Joshua Gradio or yeah.
[8:31] Timber. Calafiori, maybe you know
[8:33] someone like that, but Liverpool have went and signed an
[8:36] overlapping fall back who wants to be high and he's getting used
[8:40] in deeper areas because somebody has to.
[8:43] So yeah, yeah, it's very unbalanced, I would say.
[8:47] Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting.
[8:49] And on the flip for us, I think what we're trying to get used to
[8:54] is with Trent, I guess I'll just briefly touch on his last start
[8:56] to life at Rial. So Trent, yeah, the, the defense
[9:02] is interesting because a lot of the conversation when he signed
[9:04] is around his defense. A lot of Liverpool fans were
[9:07] very angry at him. And so the easy thing to do was
[9:11] just start acting like you never liked him or his defense was
[9:14] bad. How you're going to move on from
[9:15] it. There's just so many threads on
[9:16] social media that are going to happen.
[9:17] And fans also were just emotionally upset because Trent
[9:21] is home grown now. I knew he was great.
[9:24] And then I really looked through some more of the stats and I I
[9:26] realized how great, how great he really is.
[9:28] Like no individual player has ever accounted for that much
[9:33] progression for a great team in my opinion before like that for
[9:36] a team that great, I don't think it's ever that much volume, that
[9:40] distance of progression. The it's a lot of work.
[9:43] I don't think people it's not as easy as like one touch long
[9:46] distance passing as you made it look for most players.
[9:48] And at Rial, I think he started very shy and timid because one
[9:54] slot made those comments about his defense.
[9:56] He told Javi Alonso that he should focus on defense better
[10:00] like that. He wish he did more.
[10:01] And so Trent's come here. He started really defensively
[10:05] focused like making sure he's not a liability one-on-one at
[10:08] all tackling guys. But on the other hand, on
[10:12] offense, we've never had midfielders, I and I, I don't
[10:17] like you've had some good players last few years, but some
[10:20] when you had Henderson and Milner and Trent was playing
[10:22] like Ben. Our midfielders are usually
[10:25] taking more responsibility are like, I'm sure you remember like
[10:29] the percentage of giveaways Trent was allowed to give away
[10:32] is hot. Like he's allowed to make less
[10:34] accurate reads because all the risks close to him.
[10:36] And so he's allowed to make the turnovers.
[10:38] We need Vinicius to make some turnovers.
[10:40] We need Mbappe should make some turnovers.
[10:42] Like we need some creative license to be given around the
[10:45] team. And not only that, like when
[10:47] Marcelo and Carvajal played, they were the main difference
[10:51] with the way we've used our full backs or even Barcelona versus
[10:53] Trent is they wouldn't lose the ball as much.
[10:55] They were high volume progressors who kept it.
[10:58] Trent is a little riskier. And so you need to be able to
[11:01] account for the way you lose the ball and attack the second balls
[11:03] in the box. And Trent, I believe, has been
[11:06] extremely shy. A report came out that even the
[11:09] people around the club believe he's going to take time to get
[11:11] going. He's been shy.
[11:13] He's only had a couple games where he's really been
[11:15] expensive. And his technique is there.
[11:16] We know it, we can see it. But he's been shy.
[11:19] And I've been clamoring personally on this show like,
[11:21] hey, Alonzo, unlock Trent, unlock Trent.
[11:23] Because I think our ceiling depends on him.
[11:25] Because while our midfielders, in my opinion, are far better
[11:29] technically than Henderson and Milner, I do believe there are
[11:33] still some ways away from the cruise and moderate stays.
[11:35] We we have some technical time lacking.
[11:37] But with that being said, we got the guys who like playing behind
[11:40] the ball, Dean, Trent, Carreras, Alvaro Carreras.
[11:43] We kind of had the summer with Dean and Carreras for the
[11:45] profiles you guys kind of use like players who like playing
[11:48] behind the ball. And but yeah, that's kind of how
[11:51] he started at Real. And any thoughts on that?
[11:53] Just how shy he's been does that.
[11:55] How does that track with the Trent, you know?
[11:58] Well, just just quickly we we actually targeted the Dean
[12:00] Hoyston. Liverpool were trying to get him
[12:03] in. I'm not sure if it was as a
[12:05] replacement for anybody necessarily.
[12:07] I'm not sure Liverpool still would have went and targeted
[12:10] Leonie, who was 18 years old himself.
[12:13] But Hoyston would have made a huge difference to Liverpool on
[12:17] the ball. Just such a natural progress of
[12:20] the ball, really forward thinking, really brave.
[12:22] So that was an unfortunate loss for Liverpool, I think in Sam's
[12:29] strength at Real Madrid. Yeah, I'm maybe maybe a little
[12:34] bit surprised that he's been shy on the ball because he I mean,
[12:39] he started relatively safe when he started playing for Liverpool
[12:43] at the start. But honestly, I think he was 16.
[12:46] So you're going to be shy at that age, You know, that's
[12:50] that's relatively normal. But it didn't take long, you
[12:53] know, by the age of 1718 was show showcasing his ability on
[12:58] the ball. So I'm a little bit surprised
[13:01] about that. But it's interesting that you
[13:03] mentioned the turnovers and things like that.
[13:05] This this is kind of the problem with Trent maybe if yeah, he's
[13:09] just unorthodox compared to your typical full back.
[13:12] So you mentioned about turnovers.
[13:15] He does tend to lose the ball about 25% of the time when he's
[13:18] on it, about 75% pass completion usually.
[13:23] And again, he's playing as a full back, so if he's trying
[13:28] things, he's constantly crossing things.
[13:30] You almost have to be in a position to carry Sprint to to
[13:37] maximise what he's good at. Like Liverpool at their absolute
[13:39] best. Add Ibrahima Kanati to his left
[13:44] who can cover serious grounds, good at one on the channels,
[13:48] great 1V1 and he had Jordan Henderson slightly in front of
[13:52] him who again is is just like an absolute marathon man who was
[13:57] really disciplined, really vocal, proper leader.
[14:02] So Liverpool had that dynamic and I think Liverpool bought
[14:05] cannot a knowing that Trent was such a key member of the team.
[14:10] So but but from like a national team level, you know, no, no
[14:14] English national team manager really has had an interest in
[14:17] using Trent. If you think of Southgate and
[14:20] now Thomas Tookel, and I think that's because just generally
[14:24] speaking, he he does require that tactical protection and
[14:29] then it's OK giving him that if he's worthy.
[14:33] And Liverpool's make up a few years ago when they did, when
[14:37] they had that midfield department that was just really,
[14:40] you know, aggressive and not particularly fancy, Liverpool
[14:45] were in a position to to protect that way.
[14:48] So it's going to be interesting looking at, you know, what he
[14:51] does for Real Madrid, if Real Madrid are fully willing to
[14:54] unlock them. Because if you if you unlock
[14:56] them to unlock them, you have to kind of make accommodations
[15:00] elsewhere. If you just kind of if you just
[15:02] let everyone play, if you just let everyone just make out that
[15:05] he's an ordinary fall back, it's it's not really going to work.
[15:07] So I'm curious to see, you know, how that dynamic shifts and
[15:12] whether Real Madrid and whether Shabby Alonso truly leans into
[15:16] what he's capable of. Because on his day, especially
[15:19] on the ball, he's outrageous. He's unbelievable on the ball.
[15:24] I think he's the, I used to say him quarterback before.
[15:27] I think I haven't seen a fall back like Trent before,
[15:30] personally. You can go on.
[15:34] Yeah, I mean, I mean, listen, I'm not even arguing that he's
[15:38] not going to be that. I think he'll get there for us.
[15:39] I think we bought it. We we didn't pick him up
[15:42] thinking we're going to not accommodate for him.
[15:44] That was understood like Ederman's house next to him,
[15:47] Betty Valverde is playing right back.
[15:48] But actually he is the closest thing to Jordan Henderson on our
[15:50] team. Little Rolls Royce version of
[15:52] Henderson. Maybe better on his day, but
[15:54] then prime like a little juiced up, you know, a little better
[15:57] career but but still ending up into more of the Henderson
[16:02] archetype as he ages. More of a role player.
[16:04] And I would say in that sense, we are going to accommodate for
[16:09] him. It's just the main thing.
[16:11] The difference is that when Danny Carver Hall returned from
[16:13] injury, Carvall understands a little bit of the Spanish give
[16:16] and go a little better than Trent.
[16:19] Trent I I've seen him in for even for Liverpool, there was
[16:22] give and go. It was a little more program, a
[16:24] little less Spanish, so to speak, a little more specific
[16:28] for the Liverpool program and what they need.
[16:30] And whereas the Spanish 1 can be very typical, lots of side to
[16:33] side combination play that's just expected as a way to open
[16:36] the block up. And that's where I think he's
[16:39] still learning it. And I think the shyness is just
[16:41] because I think he's somewhat aware of that dynamic of if I I
[16:44] can't turn it over the way I did it elsewhere.
[16:47] He hasn't played much, but just statistically, interestingly,
[16:50] Football Reference only has two 90s from this season because he
[16:54] played the Club World Cup. But even here you can see his
[16:57] past accuracy is up to almost 80%.
[17:00] So he's just like playing it a little more safe, learning his
[17:02] spot. The other thing is, like in the
[17:05] Club World Cup, we played Gonzalo Garcia, our tall target
[17:08] man, but normally we don't play with a target man and a very
[17:11] short team. We're not.
[17:13] It's not as simple as like I know Ferminio, Armani and Sala
[17:16] weren't the tallest players, but you guys had a way to crash the
[17:19] box. We're not quite there yet and
[17:22] therefore Trent hasn't created. But with that being said, Judas,
[17:26] his good friend on the team, and I think Trent to Jude is
[17:28] actually a connection. We want to see the crossing.
[17:30] And it's just funny because Jude comes in and he just screams and
[17:34] does everything he wants. Trent's like his shy friend and
[17:36] he's older. So I was just like, hey, come
[17:38] on, like you have Jude's right here.
[17:39] Like look like come on. Like be part of the team.
[17:41] And yeah, he's just been shy just a little.
[17:44] But I think it's just the, the aura of the team.
[17:47] And I mean, he's lost 2 finals to us maybe.
[17:51] Yeah, I think it's no. I think if you look at his
[17:54] profile as a player though, I think he's easy to
[17:58] misunderstand. Almost like when I when I said
[18:00] before that I haven't really seen anyone else do it.
[18:05] Sometimes people compare them to Marcelo or Danny Alves or Kafu
[18:12] or Roberto Carlos. For me, those are all completely
[18:16] different type of fullbacks to Trent.
[18:19] Trent is more of a playmaking type a quarterback.
[18:23] Again, I keep using that term, but the idea of like a give and
[18:26] go or an overlap or whatever, it's not it's not really his
[18:31] game. He's not really much of a runner
[18:33] at all. You know, he's not like a 12
[18:36] kind of guy really. And what one thing I don't like,
[18:39] one thing I've always been against, and it's interesting to
[18:42] see if Alonso was, I think, I think there's been bits playing
[18:46] with it is you look at Trent and you think, right, he's really
[18:50] offensive and you think, right, he's not really particularly
[18:53] good at defending then. So the easy low hanging fruit
[18:58] answer is to play him as a wing back and to play a back three
[19:01] behind them or the idea of that I I've never really liked.
[19:08] In theory, it would allow him to play high.
[19:10] In theory it would allow him to have an extra sense of half
[19:14] behind them. You know, I understand the logic
[19:17] or I just think when I think of a typical wing back, I think of,
[19:21] you know, up and down the flanks all day and I think of a lot of
[19:25] the time you are playing ahead of the ball and you're
[19:29] predominantly a runner. I think Trent really benefits
[19:33] when he has time and space to lift his head, look into the
[19:37] pitch, find not necessarily a target man but runners, but
[19:41] players who want to threaten and behind.
[19:43] I would I would assume he would get on really well with him.
[19:46] Bapi for obvious reasons, Bellingham maybe with that box
[19:50] fashion, but yeah, he's he's not your typical just attacking full
[19:57] back. You know, there's, there's a lot
[19:58] more to him than that. Yeah, no, totally.
[20:01] And so far I would say that we actually haven't played him too
[20:05] far ahead of the ball. I think the main thing is, and I
[20:08] refer to the give and goes. I I mostly refer actually in the
[20:10] first phase when teams kind of corner us where you don't always
[20:13] want to play the hero ball in the first phase, second and
[20:15] third Phase. I would say we've been second,
[20:18] third phase build up. We've been comfortable actually
[20:19] not pushing him too high. And there have been instances
[20:22] where we've seen that Alonso gets it like, hey, plays a
[20:25] little more in the right half space.
[20:26] He's making those switches of play to the left wing a lot with
[20:29] ease playing. It's like amazing passes down
[20:32] his flank. I can't wait to see the best of
[20:35] him. But yeah, it's, I think just for
[20:37] me, I'm just wondering how soon it'll happen.
[20:39] Like we have Arda Guler, a very young Turkish player, he
[20:43] releases the ball very quickly through the Mbappe's feet in the
[20:46] second phase. So they've been kind of letting
[20:49] Mbappe and Guler figure it out, kind of getting Vinicius's role
[20:52] sorted first. And with Vinicius we have some
[20:54] contract issues. So the team's probably like,
[20:56] listen, we Trent, you're happy here.
[20:57] You just signed, you're just happy to be here.
[20:59] And getting used to things like this is like your Mbappe season,
[21:02] even if it goes bad, you're going to freak.
[21:03] You're not, you're going to forget about it.
[21:04] Be good. We got some other things to
[21:06] figure out, like why Vinny's mad at us.
[21:08] Our two time Champions League winner who who actually cooked
[21:10] you in the 22 final if you remember.
[21:13] I do remember, yeah. Thanks for that.
[21:16] Not that I'd say Cook listen, that's it's just a funny play,
[21:18] that one, because Trent actually does most things right and
[21:21] Vinny's just slightly faster in speed of thought and speed
[21:24] first, not much you could. Do it's funny though, because
[21:27] you mentioned Vinny and I had similar thoughts on on the whole
[21:31] Vinicius and Bappe dynamic as I do now on a lot of what
[21:36] Liverpool have done where you've you in theory you have signed
[21:40] good players on paper for getting them to work together as
[21:45] opposed to getting in each other's way.
[21:48] You know, I I thought Rahm was without that problem with with
[21:51] Vinny and with with Bapi. So I'm curious to know how that
[21:56] one's working. Obviously it doesn't sound like
[21:57] Vinicia's sounding like he's particularly happy.
[22:01] Yeah, just curious. He's well out of insist.
[22:03] So are you using a back four mostly then or is he similar to
[22:08] Alonzo's levacues and stuff? So right now we're going back
[22:12] four, it is a back four and a lot of times it's with Abape
[22:17] upfront and Vinnie's high and wide on the left and with them,
[22:21] and that should depend, it's been more 433 with someone on
[22:24] the right like our new young right winger Franco Masantuano
[22:27] from Argentina. Alonzo has given the team a
[22:30] hierarchy. What Amchuati didn't do so Carlo
[22:33] would mess up by not like like Carlo just when the new signing
[22:37] comes in after Champions League winning year, he just like kind
[22:40] of let's everyone figure it out. He's just like, I'm not going to
[22:43] let the new signing go and like carve out his place for you.
[22:45] So but that at the same time, Vinny started the year with
[22:49] Carlo in a year ago so well that we started doing weird things
[22:53] like playing Mbappe on the left and Vinny up front.
[22:55] And Mbappe was like without a preseason.
[22:57] Mbappe was in the worst form of his life like for years in seven
[23:01] years and so he looked completely off getting fed
[23:04] everything on a plate and missing and it looked like we
[23:06] over accommodated him. Then in December or January
[23:09] Mbappe hit farm and Vinnie was getting hurt on and off in the
[23:13] ball and door situation happening in October.
[23:15] Slowly between that and like contract negotiations not going
[23:19] the way he wants, Vinnie's farm went up and down.
[23:22] And I would say a lot of it, though, was on the fact that
[23:25] once you added Mbappe, the pressure was on the team off the
[23:28] ball to like play better defensively.
[23:30] And we were just a mess. And that frustration was leading
[23:33] into very rushed play on the ball and hero ball.
[23:36] But to to be honest, the years under Carlo, I mean, you know
[23:40] this like when you like, you guys outplayed us like in that
[23:44] final, but we were not as good as the results suggested in the
[23:47] Champions League. We beat teams better than us
[23:49] that we beat teams that were more consistent minute to
[23:52] minute, half to half, game state to game state than us.
[23:56] But we were just incredible when we went down.
[23:58] And you know, losing Cruz and adding Ibape only heightened
[24:02] that tactical dynamic of Carlo would blink shit at the wall and
[24:05] see what sticks. Carlo is like he is an old coach
[24:08] at the end of the day and that's why we're so unpredictable and
[24:11] that's why we would play these simple blocks that you could
[24:13] maybe not break. But in league play, we were very
[24:16] inconsistent. And to be honest, like the whole
[24:20] dynamic was off last year is what I mean.
[24:21] This year the main difference is now Alonzo is like actually
[24:25] implementing a system more like Zidane did, where he is worried
[24:28] about when you lose the ball. You can't have unlimited
[24:30] turnovers in your offensive system and hope to have a system
[24:34] that makes sense on defense. You need something where you
[24:37] introduce constraints. So he's made Vinny A1 on one
[24:40] guy. His progressive receptions have
[24:41] went up, but his distance of carrying has went down.
[24:44] And then this is, in my opinion, is looking better, even with the
[24:47] weird contract situation and the fight, like the whole reaction
[24:50] you saw in the Classico. He's looking good as far as like
[24:54] like every time he goes one-on-one, he's looking
[24:56] dangerous again. And then Bape is playing as an
[24:58] off ball runner a lot more. He's not like whereas last
[25:02] season it was too much interchanging confusion over
[25:04] who's creating for each other, who's not.
[25:06] And now with that said, I will say and yeah, and I I guess
[25:10] around that, I'll just add Guler has been the guy who's kind of
[25:13] threading the balls through and he's setting up finishes for one
[25:16] on ones or Bape. So he's brought in the play
[25:18] making. Our belief is essentially that
[25:22] we are a little light on press resistance outside in our team.
[25:26] Like when they all work hard it's good.
[25:27] Like 2 of many is good. Cama Vinga's elite in big games,
[25:30] but sometimes he struggles with the weighting of his pass in
[25:33] small games. A bit like grabbing Birch you
[25:34] could argue and then Cama and then you could say Jude is very
[25:40] good again at threading the needle.
[25:43] Maybe sometimes doing very slower combinations against
[25:45] smaller teams. Not his preferred preference.
[25:48] That's where Trent and Gulair, I think are the keys.
[25:50] And Trent, we haven't seen Trent statistically just pops through
[25:54] the roof like any measures you look at like on ball value, he's
[25:57] one of the highest ever of any player in terms of goal
[26:01] probability. He's added to any team.
[26:02] And we know he can be that guy for us.
[26:05] Where you add one more art of Gulair, We feel like we've
[26:08] replaced our crews at Modric. So yeah, it's I guess it's been
[26:11] more about A the coaching and B, who's the next conductor to
[26:15] replace Cruz and Modrich. And I believe Dean Horizon and
[26:18] Carreras are good, but when you also bring in Guler is really
[26:21] good. But Trent's that one final piece
[26:23] that I think completes it. But even without him, hey, we're
[26:27] we've won every game, but won the season even with Trent
[26:29] hardly integrated. So that should tell you it's
[26:31] going pretty well. Also, lastly, the underlying
[26:34] numbers are up. I just want to emphasize like if
[26:37] you've paid attention to our like expected points, expected
[26:40] goal difference, it's been pretty bad last four years.
[26:42] It's not like vintage 3 peat Real Madrid by any measure were
[26:46] worse. But yeah, I would say our
[26:49] Galactico approach. With that being said, I am a fan
[26:52] of the talent approach. I just want to say I don't know
[26:54] if you have any closing thoughts on Real, but I have a question
[26:56] to ask you. Well, I I have two thoughts.
[26:59] So number one, yeah, the Gula is is now a starter.
[27:03] Is he playing every week? He's a start, he's at starting
[27:06] level. He has like over ten goals and
[27:08] assists like 12 or something already were in October.
[27:10] I didn't know that. That's insistent.
[27:13] Yeah, I suppose number 21 of the issues I've always had with the
[27:17] idea of a Galactico recruitment policy, and I'm seeing a little
[27:20] bit of it now with Liverpool, is if you sign, if you sign Bappe,
[27:25] you've already got furnishes and we know what Trent is like.
[27:29] Those three players in particular to me don't really
[27:32] defend. So how how old Real Madrid
[27:38] absorbing that? And are the absorbing it or the
[27:40] conceding goals? I mean, if you win, if you win
[27:43] it every week, I assume the defense is good.
[27:45] Yeah, yeah, we're we're we're starting by.
[27:48] That's why he's controlling the ball losses because we're we're
[27:51] just not trying to play a turnover based game and the
[27:53] technical level's still high enough to keep the ball out with
[27:55] Dean Hoisen and Alvaro Carrera circulating it from the back.
[27:58] Truman is no complete bomb. Like people like to make fun of
[28:01] him. Fine, he's not like pedry, but
[28:03] that doesn't mean he's bad and like, and so basically he
[28:08] control how we how and when we lose the ball.
[28:10] And that's that's why Vinicius has to be kind of anchored to
[28:13] the left and told what situations in which he can lose
[28:16] it more. And yeah, it's been defense
[28:18] first. If you watched El Clasico and
[28:20] Bape is running his socks off. Like there's a persuasive
[28:23] element when you play for Real Madrid that stars, except more
[28:27] the same as Ave. Trent.
[28:28] He's defended better in my like, I don't know how he was
[28:31] defending last year from what I've gathered, especially after
[28:34] like you guys were out of competitions.
[28:35] It may not have been the best, but he over here, actually,
[28:40] there's been 0 complaints. It's kind of funny.
[28:41] Like he, he, he's just like, he's like a nervous school kid
[28:44] almost, just making sure he impresses the teacher.
[28:49] That's healthy. And I will say one more thing
[28:52] about him, you know, like I said, Alonso understands not to
[28:54] put him too far ahead of the ball.
[28:56] So it's different to Marcelo. We dealt with Marcelo for many
[28:59] years with Sergio Ramos kind of taking a lot of the blame with
[29:03] the mistakes he'd make for covering for him in a very high
[29:05] line or having to step up here. I think one thing I one reason
[29:11] I, I'm excited to see how we go about it with Trent.
[29:13] And I think again, it coming comes back to setting up a few
[29:16] automatic plays for him, set plays in the training ground
[29:19] that he knows he can be aggressive in and kind of giving
[29:22] him the triggers to release those, but making them at a
[29:24] frequency where it's comfortable with the team where he's not
[29:27] losing the ball all the time. And I think that's going to be
[29:31] the most important thing because defensively he's going to be
[29:33] behind the ball. Marcelo would always be high and
[29:35] wide. We're playing a little more
[29:37] stationary because MBAPA is so fast.
[29:39] You don't need to always occupy the last line.
[29:41] You can just send MBAPA and Vinnie will break that last line
[29:44] no matter where it is, how it is.
[29:45] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
[29:48] It's just there's lots to consider in there.
[29:51] Like, I mean, some of the players that you've that you've
[29:53] went and signed Liverpool could actually do with.
[29:56] And to be fair, Liverpool, Liverpool have shined top
[29:58] players, but they're not they're not necessarily passengers on
[30:01] the defensive end like Flori Invades.
[30:02] Those work really hard. Alexandrezak works really hard
[30:05] as well, but they're not specialists without the ball, if
[30:11] you get what I mean. So especially in the Premier
[30:14] League it's, you know, sometimes Liverpool has suffered them from
[30:18] a bit of a dodgy vest defence or, or set pieces in particular
[30:21] in England at the moment is crazy.
[30:23] So yeah, it's 3. Yeah.
[30:25] So on that note, I do think there are differences between
[30:29] our Galactico approaches. I want to say the one being, I
[30:32] think in general, yeah, you want to make sure each player is 99th
[30:35] percentile. So I guess you guys really only
[30:37] went after maybe 3 Galacticos in that sense.
[30:40] Kurkas and Rimpong were just full back signings you could say
[30:43] weren't Galacticos but yeah. Yeah.
[30:45] You have warts is act and I could take it.
[30:49] And I guess I mean, I actually kind of agree with the approach.
[30:53] I'll just off the bat in the sense that I I was looking at it
[30:56] and like just play 1 of warts or I could or is act every week and
[31:00] or sorry, yeah, could take care of is act play one of them every
[31:02] week and you'll dominate. But obviously Isaac is looking
[31:06] completely surplus to requirements.
[31:08] And I will say when you go look at his underlyings, he is good.
[31:11] But he did kind of like man, he kind of there was a little
[31:14] bubble around his name maybe in the summer.
[31:17] And that like I could take it is better.
[31:19] I think in the box. That much is clear now.
[31:21] And but with that being said, Oh yeah, my point is I feel a
[31:24] little Ronaldo Benzam when I see them like they could they could
[31:27] play together, they could dominate.
[31:29] But yes, you need everything around them to be really good
[31:32] for that to happen. And I think like it was
[31:36] obviously seen as a two year rebuild.
[31:38] But in general, like with the galactico approach, I think it
[31:41] works best when you can actually get your guy.
[31:44] And so for us, like when we got to a many, we get Trent, we get
[31:47] Mbapi Jude, it looks good. There is no Plan B for those.
[31:49] Guys you. Know, I think the main thing to
[31:53] keep in mind with that approach is if you don't get your plan A,
[31:56] we do say no or wait till Plan B As for years we waited for MBAPI
[32:00] and it was risky. But you know, I guess I'm kind
[32:04] of in hindsight, the only one I would change is Isaac, I think
[32:07] is the big one there. What do?
[32:09] You think? I think to be fair, Isaac, I
[32:12] think is, is virtually guaranteed to be a success.
[32:15] I think he, I think he's absolutely brilliant.
[32:17] But the problem is to get out of Newcastle he had to be a problem
[32:23] for them, which meant he didn't train all summer.
[32:27] So when he gets to Liverpool he's not fit.
[32:30] So the problem that we've encountered is you spent more on
[32:35] Isaac than Ekatique. But starting the season,
[32:40] Ekatique has looked brilliant and has scored in every pretty
[32:43] much every game, whereas Isaac, who is the actual big ticket
[32:47] item, looks rusty and not quite ready.
[32:52] But to get him ready you have to play him.
[32:54] So what's happened is Isaac has been playing in the Premier
[32:58] League with Ekatique on the bench, when in reality it should
[33:03] be the other way around based on form at least.
[33:05] But you need, you've just spent 130,000,000 on exact.
[33:07] So you need to play them to get them to a point where he can
[33:11] start delivering them for you. So, and to be fair as well, I
[33:14] will throw out there, I am not sure that Liverpool will sign
[33:19] both. If you know, Dogo Jiata doesn't
[33:24] tragically pass away in the summer.
[33:26] So Liverpool were left, you know, without Jotter, without
[33:30] Nunez and without Diaz, you know, and those are the three
[33:36] players that occupied the number 9 spot for Liverpool last
[33:39] season. So there was a bit of a need, I
[33:41] think to go and sign to with them.
[33:44] But I think the weird thing that the weird thing about it is they
[33:47] are just kind of clones a little bit.
[33:49] They're very, very similar. So you can't really play them
[33:52] both at once or you make, well, maybe, maybe you can, but I, I
[33:57] think there's a bit of conflict there because they both want the
[33:59] left channel. They both like to drift out wide
[34:03] towards the left. They're both all silky, you
[34:07] know, with similar pace. I think STK is probably a little
[34:10] bit quicker, but I think that's the problem.
[34:14] I think Liverpool have went and signed, they could see 80
[34:16] million, EZAC 400 and 2100 and 30 million.
[34:22] And because of those fees and especially because of STK's
[34:25] form, there's an emphasis on slots to play both and assist
[34:29] that. You've still got more salad in
[34:31] the building as well. So you need any.
[34:33] So you need the wide player in the system.
[34:34] So you can't really play a narrow diamond with the front 2
[34:37] because we're the shallow play. So I think, I think, I think one
[34:43] of the reasons I can see Gay, sorry, one of the reasons Isaac
[34:45] was signed was to protect the club against Salah's eventual
[34:51] departure. I think Salah maybe will go at
[34:55] the end of the season if Salah goes every season, Salah
[35:00] guarantees like 30 goals every single season.
[35:02] So Liverpool needed to get in another, you know, another start
[35:08] to pick up that load. And I think the idea was played
[35:11] in together in the meantime. I thought that would go well.
[35:14] But so far, it looks like nobody's benefiting.
[35:18] Yeah, I think we actually had a similar situation with exactly
[35:23] with Garrett Bale when Daniel Levy made us wait the whole damn
[35:26] summer 2013 and it was similar. Like Bale didn't play till like
[35:33] 6 game weeks in and he was off on and off first half of the
[35:37] season. None of the big games look good.
[35:39] When Bale and Ronaldo played there was pressure to keep them
[35:41] on the pitch because they're the big names.
[35:44] But at the same time Bale took the whole summer off so he could
[35:46] leave Tottenham. Same thing and I think why I
[35:52] think the big thing a lot of people are talking about, I'm
[35:55] curious is is Arne slot not like you think he's maybe not being
[35:59] aggressive enough in hunting results?
[36:01] Do you think those first few wins where you guys just played
[36:03] bad and one kind of got him thinking he could get away with
[36:06] stuff and then it's kind of a reality check because you know,
[36:09] I could take it. The easy solution is yeah, wait
[36:11] till just play. I could take it till he's act
[36:13] figures it out. It sounds, because I could take
[36:15] it, is the one who looks really good.
[36:17] A lot of people say he might be the best striker in the world or
[36:20] like he's right there with any striker in terms of just how he
[36:23] looks, speed, athleticism, really the athleticism stands
[36:26] out. Just watching his feet, how
[36:28] quickly he gets shots off. And yeah, I'm not sure how they
[36:32] work together. It's funny because actually I
[36:35] think if Trent is there, they work really great.
[36:37] And like you, basically, I feel like if you had a Trent, it
[36:40] would all be fine as well. And it's just a question of
[36:43] finding the guy who gets the ball to their feet all the time.
[36:47] Yeah, I think with slot, I think one thing I would say is he's
[36:51] maybe struggling because he's got so many mini projects to to
[36:57] manage at the moment. So in addition to obviously
[37:00] getting results, he's also got to integrate a good few new
[37:06] players and the and the players Liverpool have signed all of
[37:08] them realistically could be starters.
[37:12] And I think the only one who the only one who probably arrived at
[37:16] the club knowing that he wouldn't be a starter is Leonie,
[37:19] whatever. But Frimpong could realistically
[37:22] have thought he was trench replacement kickers.
[37:25] But he's a Ecker CK. Maybe you could argue he, you
[37:30] know, at the time Isaac wasn't in the building, No.
[37:33] So maybe Ecker CK arrives thinking he's going to play as
[37:35] well. So I think from Arnold Slot's
[37:37] perspective, he has felt an onus to to use his plays and the
[37:43] players maybe from last season or whatever.
[37:46] I've maybe been cast aside a little bit.
[37:48] I think with hindsight now looking back at what we've seen
[37:52] so far this season, I agreed with a lot of what he's done at
[37:57] the time. But I think looking back now,
[37:59] you could argue he maybe should have started the season with
[38:03] Robertson still as the starter and KKS takes over gradually.
[38:09] I think he maybe should have started with Ekatika as the
[38:12] number 9 and taking a bit longer to integrate Isaac in like the
[38:18] Champions League and the FA Cup and the Carabao Cup and things
[38:21] like that. Take longer with that, Be a bit
[38:23] more patient with that. And I think with Florian Vets, I
[38:28] want him to play in the middle. But I think you could have
[38:32] started the season with him on the left with Sabo Slayers, the
[38:37] 10, just like last season. And then as Vets gets to know
[38:41] the league and he gets more confidence and things like that,
[38:44] Liverpool look, look, confidence and assured.
[38:48] Then maybe you gradually move vets to the number 10 spot and
[38:54] you go from there. Or.
[38:56] He's changed all at once. How's words looked?
[39:00] Obviously you hear a lot. I've seen some of the footage.
[39:03] He's getting used to the space-time available in the
[39:05] Premier League. He's used to the Bundesliga.
[39:08] And honestly the the players who come from the Bundesliga, if
[39:12] they're less athletic, like, you know, Sancho wasn't the most
[39:16] athletic. He can take time and you might
[39:18] need the right team and platform.
[39:20] And my personal thought is that works should move deeper.
[39:24] Like if it's a more challenging game in the final third, you're
[39:27] going to find similar game scenarios, maybe more in the
[39:31] middle 3rd and you have to adapt your game more, maybe move 10
[39:33] yards deeper. I don't know.
[39:35] Is that a solution? And like what's been going on
[39:38] with him? You think or you think it's just
[39:40] you think he's rusty. What's going on?
[39:43] Well, he's a, he's a really unique player to start with.
[39:46] I, I think last season we, we kind of played with the number
[39:49] 10, but he was also kind of like a #8 really as well.
[39:54] And his, his main job was to protect Mohamed Saleh.
[39:58] I would say he, he was always close to Saleh.
[40:00] He was, you know, Saleh doesn't really defend.
[40:02] So Sabos Li was. Was covered in seller quite a
[40:05] lot. And then you move towards vets
[40:08] who will cover seller less and on top of covering seller less,
[40:13] he will move a lot more. Vets is always moving, always
[40:18] moving. I wouldn't say that's a bad
[40:21] thing, but it's it's it's something that you've got to get
[40:23] used to. I would say one of his biggest
[40:27] strengths, certainly based on his time in Germany, is
[40:31] receiving the ball in tiny little spaces and, you know,
[40:35] using it really nicely and things like that.
[40:37] I think we've seen shades of that.
[40:39] But there's also been times where he's maybe on the hitter
[40:43] pass or he's took too long on the ball and he's been robbed,
[40:49] or he's been leading the transition and he's played the
[40:51] wrong pass or things like that. So I think the concern for me is
[40:57] Floyd and vet has been in Floyd and vet situations at times and
[41:01] hasn't really used them. Those are where that's where the
[41:05] disappointments have stemmed from from me.
[41:07] But I still, I also think generally speaking, because of
[41:11] how unique he is. He's the kind of player that
[41:14] Liverpool that that, that that his teammates are having to get
[41:17] used to. And I also think for him to look
[41:21] really good and for him to play his his normal game, his team
[41:26] has to have control over the pitch.
[41:28] Bayer Leverkusen had a lot of control on the Jabby Alonso.
[41:33] Liverpool had a lot of control in Frankfurt and he played very
[41:37] well. Liverpool had a lot of control
[41:39] against barely away. I would say he played well in
[41:42] that game too. But in the games where it's been
[41:44] a bit more basketball, he's he hasn't played quite as well.
[41:50] But I think early in the season, just quickly, I think early in
[41:53] the season he was maybe painted as the scapegoat and he he was
[41:57] painted as like, you know, that's why we're not playing
[42:00] well. He, he's the problem.
[42:02] Slot takes him out the team against Man United and against
[42:05] Chelsea back-to-back and we lose both games with, with vets on
[42:09] the bench. So I think we've I think we've
[42:12] come full circle now and I think I think a lot of supporters now
[42:15] have realised, OK, I don't think vets is the problem actually.
[42:18] I think there's other stuff going on here.
[42:20] Yeah, yeah, it certainly sounds like a player who it's kind of
[42:24] like Rodri. Rodri's not going to look great
[42:26] in basketball games, like his team needs to play a certain
[42:30] way. Super Mendi can look good
[42:32] defensively, but Super Mendi is someone who's going to exert an
[42:34] influence over the game. Seems like Liverpool's ability
[42:38] to control the game is the worst of Man City, Arsenal, even real.
[42:43] A lot of the top teams right now, like you guys, we were at
[42:45] the bottom of the barrel last year of all the top teams at
[42:47] controlling games, but now you guys have probably taken that
[42:52] mantle. Let's see.
[42:54] Oh, yeah, one question, you mentioned Richard Hughes.
[42:57] So like Richard Hughes is the director, but isn't like Michael
[43:00] Edwards still like a big influence?
[43:02] How has that changed? Is didn't Edwards not lead your
[43:05] old big transfers and did he not build that whole team?
[43:09] And is he not the one who's really in charge now?
[43:13] So Edwards was key to building Clops initial team, for example,
[43:22] I don't know if this is known, you know, in Spain and like
[43:25] that, but there was a there was a moment when clock really wants
[43:29] Julian Brandt and then Edwards and his data guys convinced him
[43:35] that Salah was a better purchase.
[43:37] And Klopp was willing to change his mind.
[43:39] And he said, OK, I'll trust you. And you know, the rest is
[43:42] history. So Edwards was key to to
[43:45] recruiting a lot of those players.
[43:47] But over time, and I think COVID had a big impact on this as
[43:52] well, he was a little bit of agitation, you know, a little
[43:57] bit of conflict between, you know, recruitment decisions and
[44:01] things like that. And Edwards eventually gets to a
[44:05] point where he no longer wants to be a sporting director.
[44:10] So he kind of quits, basically, kind of resigns.
[44:14] And gradually in the 12 months that follows, all of his boys,
[44:20] all of us associates follow him out the door, basically.
[44:24] David Woodvine, Julian Ward. I'm sure Ian Graham leaves as
[44:31] well. So it's it's, it was a gradual
[44:34] departure and it was kind of, it was a bit of a sea change with
[44:38] Clop almost becoming a bit of a sporting director.
[44:42] We had a kind of kind of bit of a throwback and pepling, this
[44:46] was the cup was almost coaching the team a little bit and that
[44:50] was how the dynamic shifted a little bit.
[44:52] But when club then leaves, FSG needs to find a way, a way home,
[45:00] you know, a solution. So they naturally went to
[45:02] Michael Edwards and said will you come back?
[45:04] He said no. He said no to everyone as well.
[45:08] He said no to Chelsea, he said no to a few other clubs.
[45:12] So the job that he eventually accepted was a job where he is
[45:16] not the sporting director, he's above the sporting director and
[45:21] he and he technically works for FSG, not for Liverpool.
[45:24] And it's his job to kind of FSG interested at the moment to to
[45:31] buy a new club, to buy a club in Spain or a club in Portugal
[45:34] also. So Edwards is involved with that
[45:36] sort of thing. He appointed Richard Hughes.
[45:39] They were really good friends, you know, the colleagues once in
[45:42] a Portsmouth a few years ago. So he appointed Richard Hughes
[45:47] to be the sporting director. You by the players.
[45:50] That's not my job anymore. So that's kind of where we're at
[45:54] now. But I think I think in the
[45:57] summer just gone because of the number of deals Liverpool did
[45:59] and the level of deals as well. I think Hughes did some of it.
[46:05] I think Edwards might have done some of it.
[46:07] Julian Walters also back now, I think he's done some of it too.
[46:10] So yeah, that's kind of where we're going to look for
[46:14] apparently, according to his role and things like that.
[46:17] I don't actually think Edwards is particularly involved with
[46:21] Anna Schloss day-to-day. I think that's Richard Hughes's
[46:23] job. Yeah, that makes sense.
[46:27] Yeah. Just asking because you know,
[46:28] you guys are usually in for the same players as us because the
[46:32] truth is the truth. The best player, opposition is
[46:34] the best. And if yeah, I think you guys
[46:40] are among the most and PSG now are annoying.
[46:42] They kind of go after some of the same players too.
[46:44] They've kind of figured out the best players are the same
[46:46] everywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[46:50] I think Liverpool initially under Michael Edwards couldn't
[46:53] really compete for those players though.
[46:55] So it's insisting that Liverpool have now reached the point where
[46:59] the the regard of this like a giant again.
[47:02] So Liverpool can now compete for these players.
[47:05] So Edwards signing the likes of, you know, I don't know, Andy
[47:08] Robertson few years ago or even someone like I said, the Omani
[47:12] maybe from from Southampton, you know, Liverpool don't
[47:15] technically have to do as much of that anymore.
[47:18] Liverpool can just shop it in the top in the top market.
[47:23] But it's interesting to think about whether Edwards would be
[47:28] doing that or whether this is a huge thing or, or whether it was
[47:32] the plan the whole time for Liverpool to eventually get to
[47:34] this point. You know, it's it's interesting,
[47:36] but it's not really. It's not very moneyball.
[47:42] Liverpool like that kind of club a few years ago.
[47:45] Yeah, no, it's not Moneyball at all.
[47:47] And no, you definitely need more Moneyball signings this coming
[47:51] summer. It looks like after you spend
[47:52] all that for 50 million. But what's the, what are your
[47:56] Premier League hopes looking like?
[47:59] Obviously you're just trying to get to set next summer, probably
[48:01] sell Salah to Saudi or something.
[48:03] How you think top four? I think I saw you say something
[48:06] about your you guys are definitely finishing a fourth or
[48:08] fifth or something. I would take 4th right now.
[48:12] I don't think Arsenal or any of our business at the moment, I
[48:16] think they are just much steadier, much more consistent.
[48:20] So, and the vote. There's already a gap as well
[48:22] between the and. You beat them and you beat them
[48:25] and there's a yeah, yeah. Liverpool beat them.
[48:27] Yeah, yeah. So I don't think Liverpool can
[48:30] compete for the Premier League title this season.
[48:34] Hopefully Liverpool will will finish well in the Champions
[48:38] League. I think the Champions League is,
[48:40] I think we've got a bit more hope in that one because teams I
[48:46] think are less likely to go fully direct and teams won't use
[48:52] set pieces and long throws as much as we're seeing in the
[48:55] Premier League. Obviously the Liverpool by
[48:59] Rimpong Kirkus vet, they're not particularly equipped to deal
[49:04] with aerial balls all the time. So we've kind of got worse at
[49:09] that sort of thing in the Premier League's got a bit more
[49:12] interested in that sort of thing.
[49:13] So it's it's gone the wrong way that for Liverpool.
[49:16] But when we played Frankfurt, Frankfurt kept the ball on the
[49:21] floor trying to build from the back and Liverpool beat them 51
[49:25] and it was, it was really easy. But then a few days later we
[49:28] played Brentford and we got beat 32.
[49:30] So in the Champions League maybe Liverpool will look a bit more
[49:34] like themselves. But in England, yeah, I hope we
[49:39] finish 4th. Oh wow, that's crazy.
[49:43] That's interesting to hear. Is Ibrahim Konate is a big topic
[49:48] of discussion at Real Madrid right now?
[49:50] And the rumours that I've heard are that he's he's just doesn't
[49:55] feel like his wages and recognition are like in like he
[49:59] feels like Van Dyke steals a bit of the spotlight maybe.
[50:02] And maybe he wants bigger and better contract that he won't
[50:05] get at Liverpool. But the feeling is that we might
[50:08] get him and he's at a contract and pass Any any thoughts on
[50:12] that? How's he looking?
[50:14] Well, it's it's incessant, but can I say?
[50:15] Because apparently, can I say isn't apparently he's not in the
[50:20] same category as trends in that Trent just wanted to leave,
[50:25] Trent wanted to go to Real Madrid.
[50:27] Cannot say the way it is. He would actually stay and he
[50:31] would be happy to stay if Liverpool were willing to pay
[50:34] him what he wants. I'm not I've got no idea what he
[50:37] wants. I don't know what he wants, but
[50:40] I think there's a conflict there with that 1.
[50:43] So it's a confusing situation to be in.
[50:46] He's had a bad start to the season.
[50:48] I will say that he keeps, he keeps just randomly shooting
[50:53] himself in the foot basically. He keeps just making random
[50:56] mistakes out of nowhere. And but on his day, I am higher
[51:01] on Canazi than the typical Liverpool fan, I think because
[51:05] generally speaking, he's got all raw materials to be brilliant.
[51:10] He's absolutely massive. He's really, really fast.
[51:14] He's good in the air. He's becoming more and more
[51:16] vocal. I think his ability on the ball
[51:19] is is downplayed a little bit. I don't think he's anywhere near
[51:22] as bad as people suggest. I think he should score a lot
[51:26] more from set pieces. He gets headers, he just doesn't
[51:29] score them. If he added that to his game,
[51:31] he'd be even better. So and he's a good age as well,
[51:35] so he's used to playing in a highline and everything.
[51:38] So I would really like to keep him.
[51:41] I think if I was Real Madrid, I probably would go for him.
[51:44] I think he's ideal to play next to Trent as well.
[51:49] But it's it's curious to me as to why, if, if the reason is
[51:53] Liverpool don't want to pay him. I'm really interested to know
[51:57] how much you want. Because I would, I would happily
[52:00] pay him. As long as it's not stupid, you
[52:02] know, as long as it's not outrageous.
[52:04] Yeah, totally. Yeah.
[52:06] Just it looks like his injury history's cleared up a little,
[52:09] so we'll be interesting if we get him.
[52:11] Yeah, well, that's an insistent line.
[52:13] Like since Arnold Slot came in, it's it's been a bit of a
[52:15] different story with the injuries under Aaron Clock.
[52:18] He was injured all the time. So maybe it's a, you know, a
[52:23] methods kind of thing. Slots, obviously, you know it's
[52:26] benefiting him whatever he's doing now.
[52:28] Yeah, yeah, definitely. Any predictions for the game or
[52:33] yeah, I guess like 1 dynamic I've heard like is Curtis Jones
[52:36] like very key to your team is is like I heard he might be the
[52:40] best right back for you or what like is that is there your
[52:43] what's the key to the game? Not so much right, but I think
[52:46] Subway Schlein's been doing bits right back at times.
[52:49] But I would say Katie Jones, he's actually injured at the
[52:52] moment only I think it's only a little one, but he came back
[52:56] into the team against Frankfurt that the five one win and he was
[53:00] he was brilliant and he just I think he completed more passes
[53:04] in that game than any Liverpool player ever has in a Champions
[53:08] League game. So he offered a lot of control
[53:12] for Liverpool. He was great when it comes to
[53:14] Preston as well. He played against Brown for the
[53:16] few days later and I think he was one of the better players
[53:18] too. And he he's one of the few as
[53:20] well who seems to have a bit of a relationship with vet.
[53:24] He seems to be on a similar wavelength when it comes to, you
[53:27] know, little 5 yard passes around the corner and and
[53:31] keeping the ball. And it's kind of like they're
[53:36] both inclined to probe, you know, in like little small
[53:40] spaces, nothing crazy, but it's like it's like they've both got
[53:45] kind of like a 5A side street football vibe about them.
[53:48] And they both they both benefit each other in that way.
[53:51] So hopefully Jones can come back into the team, but this is one
[53:55] of the problems Jones in in reality is probably the
[53:58] Liverpool's fifth choice midfield.
[54:00] You've probably got Gavin Berg, Sabos like Vert and Michaelis.
[54:04] They're all ahead of them. But because of how everyone's
[54:07] playing at the moment and because of what the team needs,
[54:10] Jones kind of is justified in playing John.
[54:13] You need Jones on the pitch, but then you end up with got really
[54:15] good players on the bench. And so it's it's quite messy.
[54:19] Yeah, yeah, definitely. That's going to be interesting.
[54:23] I'd say the keys next week at Anfield, just looking at that
[54:27] game, is that our defense is much better.
[54:33] So I think if you guys struggle, just based on what you're saying
[54:36] with ball progression, I think we might have a good time, like
[54:40] pressing you guys, it sounds like.
[54:42] Sounds like teams can kind of get at you.
[54:45] We just played Barcelona and put up one of the best performances
[54:49] any team has against Hanzi flicks Barcelona since he took
[54:51] over I believe probably the worst expected goal difference
[54:54] for Barcelona and or one of the worst in a game 3.6 to one.
[54:58] We cooked them. So after seeing that and
[55:02] Barcelona are good at circulating the ball.
[55:04] So I think we're going to have a fun time pressing Gravin, Burge,
[55:07] McAllister kind of make you guys play hot potato.
[55:10] So that would be my expectation, especially because like that's
[55:14] the thing when if you're not, if your first phase is insecure,
[55:17] then players like Isaac and Ekatika, they go from being
[55:23] maybe press resistant or adding something to kind of just being
[55:26] disconnected from the team because there's just not enough
[55:29] going on you need there. You need a sufficient floor of
[55:32] keeping the ball before they become more valuable.
[55:34] And I feel like you guys haven't got to the point where you're
[55:37] able to play it long and they hold it up and settle the game
[55:39] down for you guys. It's not quite there if I'm not
[55:41] wrong. And I think the big and I think
[55:44] the big thing for you guys could be just some teams try this.
[55:48] But I, I, I feel like what it would be is Isaac.
[55:51] One of them has to play wide left and one of them needs to be
[55:54] more central. Like kind of like what's with
[55:56] Vinny and Buffett? Just stop.
[55:57] You can't let them play together in the half space.
[56:00] If they don't know how to play together, that you're better off
[56:02] just keeping them apart. And I would go along to Isaac
[56:05] and have him hold it up, maybe play faster.
[56:07] I feel like long while he's isolating against a fullback,
[56:11] just pressing back against him, kind of hold it up.
[56:14] I'm not saying that'll work, but I mean, that's just one way to
[56:17] go about it. But I feel like in our game,
[56:20] we're going to encourage more long balls, go after you, press
[56:22] you in the first phase and in general.
[56:25] I'm just curious to see how you guys use your 200 million
[56:29] strikers together and transition or something.
[56:33] To be to be fair though, Liverpool have players who were
[56:36] really good in transition. So if if Liverpool can beat the
[56:39] press, you know, there's the the likes of Ecka.
[56:43] TK in particular thrives in transition.
[56:45] He was really good in Frankfurt with that sort of thing.
[56:48] Salah has been denied space. It feels like for most of the
[56:51] season he would have that in transition.
[56:55] I think a lot of the problem has been just how direct teams have
[56:59] been against Liverpool, just hitting over our press when
[57:04] we're pressing, using set pieces, using long throwings.
[57:10] I think that that's been a problem.
[57:11] And I mean, tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't, I can't
[57:15] really see where I'm doing that against Liverpool.
[57:18] You. Mean inviting your press and
[57:20] using it against you. Will will Liverpool?
[57:23] Will Real Madrid play through Liverpool or play over them?
[57:29] Yeah, that's a good question and I think that's why along.
[57:32] I feel like last season we might have played through teams
[57:35] sometimes because we're so good, but a lot of times we played
[57:39] playing fast. I guess like in spite, despite
[57:43] whatever they're doing, we would play fast.
[57:45] This year. Alonso does tailor things to the
[57:48] other team a lot more. It's not it's not just playing a
[57:51] fastball every time. So there are times in such
[57:55] games. Well, Alonso does try doing a
[57:57] lot of fixing now in a lot of games.
[57:59] What I mean by that is maybe you guys did it better last year,
[58:02] but what Man City do a lot where they set up in your half, they,
[58:05] they, they play the winger very high and wide and their shape is
[58:08] in a way where you don't want to jump on them too much.
[58:10] You kind of have to let them have the ball a little.
[58:13] Alonso's been trying to force teams to let us keep the ball
[58:15] more and he's trying to force us to fix the team.
[58:18] And then Arctic Guler ends up being the one who plays through.
[58:20] If we play through, it's because of Guler we can play over.
[58:24] We don't play over with Trent yet.
[58:25] What's funny is Trent, that might be 1 of Trent's first
[58:28] games back into the line up. It's really funny because.
[58:32] It will it will not be a good reaction and I'm field I.
[58:35] Don't feel at all. No, it will not be good.
[58:38] I think he will. He will know that as well.
[58:41] He's not stupid. And if he gets picked to play
[58:44] that game, if you, if you're saying that he's been shy, he
[58:48] will be. I think he'll be terrible, to be
[58:50] honest. I think I think he'll have a bad
[58:52] game. I already do.
[58:54] Listen, I would love to just see it because.
[58:57] I would love to see it as well because the the Anfield pitch is
[59:00] really close to the supporters and he obviously plays as a
[59:04] right back so he'd have no way to hide.
[59:08] It's, it's not, it's honestly it's not a good idea to play
[59:11] him. I would not play him if I was
[59:12] There shall be. That's funny.
[59:15] I got a pretitle. This segment should stop.
[59:17] You have the Alonzo play trend question mark, but I think
[59:21] that's funny. Like it is going to be a very
[59:24] angry reaction. And how much hatred is there?
[59:27] Is it because did he like tell you guys he's going to like make
[59:31] it seem like he's going to stay? Was it because once he left, he
[59:35] like, was it emotional reaction on the pitch?
[59:37] There were so many clips floating around.
[59:38] I I feel like Liverpool fans look for every reason.
[59:41] So what were the most valid reasons in your opinion?
[59:44] Well, I don't think it'll ever go down well if any scouter
[59:47] tries to leave Liverpool because the the perspective in Liverpool
[59:52] is you don't leave. The perspective in Liverpool is
[59:55] the absolute top of the sport is Liverpool that there is no hire
[1:00:00] in in our eyes. So why would any home grown kid
[1:00:05] want to leave? And if you do leave, you're a
[1:00:07] bit of a sizer. That's the perspective.
[1:00:10] I understood that a bit more because you only get one career.
[1:00:16] He'd already won everything. In England, he, you know,
[1:00:20] Liverpool went in a healthy place and he wants to try
[1:00:23] something new. So I understood it.
[1:00:25] What I what, what annoyed me a little bit was the way in which
[1:00:28] he went about it. I thought was a bit sneaky.
[1:00:33] You know, he can't, he kind of made out that like it was
[1:00:36] always, it was a very tough decision and he was undecided
[1:00:41] for a long period of time. And it like initially he made
[1:00:46] out that like, well, yeah. And clocks left.
[1:00:48] I want to see how honest Lock gets on.
[1:00:50] And then honest Lot does really well and he wins the league and
[1:00:53] it doesn't make any difference anyway.
[1:00:56] And he was the, he was the £10,000,000 bid, I think in the
[1:01:00] middle of the season when Liverpool were going for the
[1:01:02] title. That wasn't really good.
[1:01:06] That wasn't, that didn't benefit them at all.
[1:01:08] And the unused, the fact that he could speak unbelievable
[1:01:12] Spanish, you know, by the time that he turned up for his press
[1:01:15] conference, In other words, he's been laying there for like, at
[1:01:18] least a year. I think this is what it is with
[1:01:21] Scousers, especially people from Liverpool.
[1:01:23] But we're not stupid. So please, please don't treat us
[1:01:28] like we're stupid. And if you try to pull the wool
[1:01:31] over our eyes, we will get really angry.
[1:01:35] We just just be with us. Just be honest.
[1:01:38] Yeah, yeah. And listen, I'm, I'm actually
[1:01:39] curious a little more. I was in Edinburgh, by the way,
[1:01:42] this summer just briefly and for a couple weeks doing some
[1:01:45] interesting things. And I'm just very fascinated by
[1:01:48] football culture in England after that, just like the
[1:01:51] tribalism, because Edinburgh, I was here in a little bit of, I
[1:01:53] wasn't in Glasgow, but I was hearing all about all the
[1:01:55] football rivalry up there and I thought Newcastle wasn't far
[1:01:58] from the border and the sheer tribalism and the idea of
[1:02:02] Liverpool being the pinnacle. It makes more sense now having
[1:02:05] visited recently, just because football's just everything, like
[1:02:09] it's life, like it's everything it's and like I, I find that
[1:02:15] whole culture fascinating. And I agree about the
[1:02:18] sneakiness. Like he did make it seem like
[1:02:20] that. And I think the other thing is
[1:02:23] that, you know, like if you're, if football's life and you're a
[1:02:26] Liverpool fan, you've accomplished everything except
[1:02:28] beating Real Madrid. And so he it's like he joined
[1:02:30] the big villain. That's the the pinnacle for you
[1:02:32] guys just beating us like the only thing left is like you
[1:02:36] guys, the difference between 3:00 and 1:00 Champions Leagues
[1:02:38] for you guys is us. So the difference between like
[1:02:41] the the household dynastic name of the late 2010's on versus
[1:02:45] just another team that we all beat on their right road to six
[1:02:48] who has won like we've beat a lot of teams that have won, but
[1:02:52] I no totally that makes sense. And I guess what's, what's, what
[1:03:00] else would you say? Are you from the Liverpool area?
[1:03:03] Like do you live there are. You are you.
[1:03:05] You're there now, like in in Liverpool.
[1:03:07] Yeah, yeah. Nice, nice.
[1:03:09] So like Trent's brother too, is he hated as well for being his
[1:03:14] agent and like kind of orchestrating all that.
[1:03:17] Yeah, I would say he's. I would say he's.
[1:03:20] I think he'll be hated more to be honest.
[1:03:23] But yeah, I don't even want to get into that.
[1:03:25] That's probably not even worth. Getting into you got it.
[1:03:28] You hate it even more than Trent.
[1:03:30] Come on, you can't see that. Just leave.
[1:03:33] Him hanging, but I think he's also no, it's not worth getting
[1:03:37] into. It's not worth getting into.
[1:03:39] Like, really not worth. All right, well, you have me
[1:03:40] curious, but yeah, that's so funny.
[1:03:44] But yeah, what else is anything else about the fan?
[1:03:48] I'm curious about the fan culture.
[1:03:50] How is like Liverpool's success the last years?
[1:03:52] Has it changed like Liverpool at all as a city?
[1:03:54] How would you say has it brought more glamour?
[1:03:57] Is there change the vibe of the city or has it always been
[1:03:59] Liverpool with just a better team now?
[1:04:02] No, it's always been obsessive. I think maybe the difference has
[1:04:06] been a clop in particular, kind of reminder those who we were,
[1:04:11] who we wear in a weird source of way, even minds of those.
[1:04:13] Like even when we did quite well on the Benitez and Gerard
[1:04:17] Julier, it was doing well in a bit of a defensive way, if you
[1:04:23] get what I mean. Whereas people from Liverpool,
[1:04:26] we are quite bold, we're quite forward from footed confidence
[1:04:31] and loud in many ways. And so I think clubs playing
[1:04:38] style really resonated with your typical scouter who who lives in
[1:04:44] Liverpool. He was just he he behaved like a
[1:04:47] scouter. Maybe he was like having your
[1:04:50] dad in charge of your local team and and Liverpool achieved
[1:04:55] success in in that like forward thinking, attacking, you know,
[1:05:00] kind of brave kind of way. And I think it it was a really
[1:05:05] appropriate representation of the city.
[1:05:09] I think now Liverpool are back on that, back on that page, I
[1:05:13] think is what we like to say, because we've got we've now got
[1:05:16] the same number of Premier League titles as Man United.
[1:05:19] We've both got 20. Alex Ferguson, who used to
[1:05:24] manage Man United, made his priority to to get Man United in
[1:05:28] front of Liverpool with that. So now we're back level and
[1:05:31] stuff. So yeah, it's it's a good time
[1:05:33] to be a Liverpool fan. It's I'm not particularly
[1:05:35] worried long term. It's just shorting.
[1:05:38] We have quite a few tactical problems that are a little bit
[1:05:40] self-inflicted because of the business that we've done.
[1:05:43] Yeah, definitely. Any predictions for the game?
[1:05:47] I think we're going to win at Anfield.
[1:05:50] It's just Alonzo we we've got past some big tests and I is
[1:05:55] that one of the last games before the international break?
[1:05:57] Let me double check here. So we play Real Madrid, play
[1:06:02] Liverpool, OK, We play once more before the international break.
[1:06:05] So second last game, yeah, I'm expecting a win just because if
[1:06:11] you guys are losing to Brentford and all those teams, we're Real
[1:06:13] Madrid. You know how it goes.
[1:06:14] Like we have that. Yeah.
[1:06:16] But one thing I will say. Also we beat you 5/2 after that
[1:06:19] we want another one of those. That was a different kind of
[1:06:22] team. That one's to be honest.
[1:06:25] What I would say is styles make fights.
[1:06:27] So when it comes to Brentford, Brentford, which is really
[1:06:30] equipped through to deal with Liverpool right now, but Real
[1:06:36] Madrid could be a better stylist this match for like Liverpool
[1:06:40] beat Arsenal, for example. You know, Liverpool did very
[1:06:42] well against Arsenal. So it'll be interesting to see
[1:06:45] how it goes. Liverpool I think played twice
[1:06:48] before Real Madrid from today when we're recording.
[1:06:53] So if we win both games, it'll be a different kind of feel as
[1:06:57] as of right now. Allison Aston Villa, though.
[1:07:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know those.
[1:07:02] Are tough teams. I think right now I would
[1:07:06] probably say maybe 3-1 Real Madrid, but I do.
[1:07:13] If you were to say to me now that Liverpool will actually win
[1:07:17] the game, I wouldn't even be that surprised just just because
[1:07:20] of the stylistic thing with it. Yeah, I think that could
[1:07:25] Liverpool might be a bit better suited to face in the team like
[1:07:27] that. But, you know, we'll see.
[1:07:29] Yeah, I think big games have a way of being closer.
[1:07:32] My understanding is Arsenal were a little like themselves.
[1:07:35] We're not the Arsenal we're seeing right now.
[1:07:36] And yeah, we'll wrap it up in a SEC here.
[1:07:39] But yeah, I figured Arsenal would kind of like be better now
[1:07:45] I assume is but and we're growing as well, so it'll be
[1:07:48] interesting. I'm also, yeah, I'm mostly
[1:07:50] curious to see how much you grow and how much you can get out of
[1:07:53] playing like, you know, Palace and Villa.
[1:07:55] It's a very tough Premier League, as you say.
[1:07:57] Honestly, if you had maybe confidence building fixtures, as
[1:07:59] soon as you said that and I look at those games, I'm like, oh.
[1:08:01] Wow, Well, the Palace game is it is in the Caribou Cup.
[1:08:05] So I don't think, you know, I don't think everyone will play
[1:08:09] in that one. But it's not, it's not an ideal
[1:08:12] fixture. And obviously Astonville as well
[1:08:13] as just beat Manchester City the other day.
[1:08:15] So yeah, but this is the this is the Premier League.
[1:08:18] The Premier League is really unforgiven, really hard.
[1:08:20] There's no easy games as all this season there's not one team
[1:08:24] that is like they are really bad.
[1:08:26] Every single team is capable and every single team is adaptable
[1:08:30] as well. So what if you have any
[1:08:32] weakness, they will just target it immediately and they won't,
[1:08:36] they won't try and do little nice building from the back,
[1:08:38] anything like that. They'll just target your
[1:08:40] weakness straight away. So yeah, it's a tough time.
[1:08:44] Yeah, yeah, I'm excited to see how those games go.
[1:08:46] Carabao Cup, Hopefully Isaac gets his 90s so I could TK can
[1:08:50] play the games that matter for now, but it will be fun to
[1:08:53] watch. Josh, thank you for coming on.
[1:08:55] You have a sub stack and you have a bunch of things going
[1:08:57] right. Any anything the listeners
[1:08:59] should check out if you're interested in more Liverpool
[1:09:01] content from you. Yeah, so my my handle on every
[1:09:05] social media platform is at distance covered.
[1:09:08] So you're just going to give me a follow?
[1:09:10] My sub stack is distance covered.substack.com.
[1:09:14] Again, it's it's following Liverpool, but in a bit of a bit
[1:09:18] of a tactical way. I like to think it's different
[1:09:21] to anything else out there. But yeah, give me a follow and
[1:09:25] thanks for the invite. Appreciate it.
[1:09:27] Yeah, of course. And definitely look forward to
[1:09:29] chatting in the future and we will see you guys all later.
[1:09:33] We will have plenty more on the show.
[1:09:35] And thank you all for tuning in. I'm ending the stream here.

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