# Kairat Almaty 0-5 Real Madrid Postgame Reaction

An episode of [The Real Deal: A Real Madrid Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1807821669), 30 Sep 2025, 49 min.

Audio: https://anchor.fm/s/103607aa8/podcast/play/109034060/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2025-8-30%2F408429371-44100-2-7a9115682e3bb.mp3

Loconte & Siddharth break down the win over Kairat. Alonso's selections, Ceballos and Alaba in buildup, Asencio and Fran and Courtois' pains on the ball, Mbappe's devastating performance, and more.

## Transcript

[1:04] Well, after what happened on Saturday, the least we could
[1:07] have asked for was a simple win, and to some degree we got that
[1:11] right. Yeah.
[1:13] I mean, to a certain degree, yeah, this was needed.
[1:18] It was much needed and so today here we are to talk about our
[1:21] trip to the other Galaxy. Hot.
[1:24] So I don't know what time zone, which planetary time zone we're
[1:28] in and the players my age a few years like Cooper and
[1:31] Interstellar on the way back or something.
[1:33] But here we are, we made it. And so I guess let's get right
[1:39] into it. Lecante going into that game, a
[1:42] lot of stress and pressure. And.
[1:45] I think therefore Alonzo picked a stronger lineup then maybe he
[1:48] would have initially if we didn't lose Phi 2.
[1:51] Like we got Mbappe, we got Vinny, we got Guler.
[1:54] I mean, what were the major rotations?
[1:56] Even Ascencio was played because you had to play him.
[1:58] Militao was rotated. I guess would be like the most
[2:03] obvious one, but naturally I felt that it wasn't a rotated
[2:08] team, it was more like I think outside of Carreras this is the
[2:13] best 11 that I can put right now.
[2:16] Yes, actually, and honestly Carreras looked gassed on like
[2:21] he looked tired, like he just looks slow like feta kind of has
[2:25] even some of these games and and so and Carreras was the one who
[2:29] played center back last week to get us through the midweek
[2:32] fixture. So I agree Fran Garcia was the
[2:35] only rotation, so it was a full strength 11.
[2:38] Not only that, the second big development going into the game,
[2:42] Alonzo kinda abandons the very high press and he chooses to
[2:47] play conservatively right? So those are the 2 dynamics.
[2:50] And 3rd, I just want to say 10 seconds into the game Cortois
[2:53] was forced to make a save from it.
[2:56] Put it all together. I get it man. 10 seconds in you
[2:59] dial it back. They're they're giving you a
[3:00] better. Right.
[3:02] I can't put like got caught off you don't really expect a team
[3:09] you they probably expected to low block, hoove the ball and
[3:13] hope They did not expect a team that was going to come in and
[3:17] press that highly, which was kind of telling on the 1st 15 or
[3:22] so minutes. But yeah, in terms of the
[3:25] lineup, I believe that it was a quite one.
[3:29] There are two reasons here, right?
[3:31] One, that you mentioned after the Derby, just the reaction.
[3:35] And two, this format of the Champions League kind of forces
[3:39] you to play like you're better players because goal difference
[3:44] matters so much. You really want to be on that
[3:47] top 8. And that's very tight
[3:53] competition, especially given that we're we're going to have
[3:56] like some big games following this.
[3:59] So yeah. Yeah, yeah, agreed.
[4:01] And I, I think on your end, I see that that we need a good
[4:05] goal difference. For me, I'm just thinking like,
[4:08] you know, you, you got a pretty fundamental assumption about how
[4:11] your team can defend duels wrong over the weekend and just about
[4:15] how they can cross. So I, I just feel like like as a
[4:19] Real Madrid coach, you don't go and play an ultra highline again
[4:23] and again and lose the same way a few times in a row.
[4:25] That might be something that happens at Barcelona or Man
[4:28] City. And I think it's something we
[4:30] need to get better at here. But I personally after watching
[4:33] Athletico I'm like listen when players are fatigued do not try
[4:36] to implement a highline. I would personally have sat back
[4:40] against athletico as well. I know you have to learn but man
[4:42] with the state of the team energy wise like fete being
[4:46] exhausted, Trenton Carvajal out, I am always a fan of let quality
[4:50] players win a game slowly in a mid block ish setup.
[4:54] I'm always going to be there. You didn't like that as much
[4:56] though, huh? My fundamental thing is that if
[5:02] we're really going to have the shift, I would rather take the
[5:05] pain now than have to take the pain later.
[5:09] And how I see it is that regardless, those players are
[5:14] going to have to adapt. Like it could be December, it
[5:19] could be January, it could be February, right, Which you would
[5:23] want to avoid. Those players are going to have
[5:26] to adapt to playing that way because I think Alonzo sees the
[5:32] team that way. But to let note, you saw that
[5:34] once the Subs were made to kind of prove your point of energy
[5:37] depletion. Once Subs started to come in,
[5:40] the high press was coming back, the highline was coming back
[5:44] where players were pushing higher.
[5:47] And that's when we, again, I'll say we found more comfort than
[5:52] we were better at least like my thing with all of that.
[5:59] Yeah, so the first half we're going in and 1st 1015 minutes
[6:05] somewhat uneventful till we score.
[6:08] Yeah, we're I guess we dial back the counter press.
[6:11] They got inspired by Athletico Madrid.
[6:13] I think every team is us is going to be inspired by that
[6:16] game this season, try to achieve what they did again and that's.
[6:20] A good sign for us though. Yeah, so it is because
[6:23] ultimately like OK, hoof it, like we have enough tall players
[6:26] to defend it if we. Apply right hoof.
[6:28] It and Bale helping on cross is fine, but it it's still like a
[6:31] good team to defend it. If we try like Chuwameni's
[6:34] there, Jude is there. Even saw Courtois being a lot
[6:39] more reactive to lacrosse's tonight as opposed to to the
[6:43] Darby right. I don't think he claimed as
[6:46] many, but he was way more reactive with the with the way
[6:49] how he was shaping his body on the line.
[6:52] You could tell that he's ready for what's coming, rather than
[6:56] what you saw against that Lady as an example.
[6:59] Totally on that note. So Sebayos and Aliba I thought
[7:04] were kind of the story of the game early on because we weren't
[7:09] circulating great anyways. But one, obviously Kaira are not
[7:13] Atletico Madrid. But two, all the good moments
[7:17] that came came from the small things that Fete and Chuomeni
[7:20] didn't do against Athletico, like vacate a certain vertical
[7:23] lane to allow a pass to be played, take a touch in a
[7:26] direction away from the press and then play the pass in a way
[7:29] they're not expecting. Sebios's touch was so much
[7:33] better than what we've been getting from Fete and midfield.
[7:35] I thought that was, I was, I was impressed.
[7:38] And you know, it feels like, I think we joke about this a lot,
[7:41] 'cause the seasons where we have to rely on him in the past were
[7:43] not good seasons. But man, we might have to rely
[7:46] on him a little bit. What do you think?
[7:47] Yeah. But if this is the reliance as
[7:50] opposed to what we had previously, this much better,
[7:54] like this is a much better product because Sebias, I have
[7:58] always said if you make him think twice, he'll always make a
[8:02] mistake, which doesn't seem to be the case with Alonzo at all.
[8:07] He's he seems to have an idea of what the move is going to be.
[8:11] Sometimes he's dropping between center backs, sometimes he's
[8:15] high up it. He just seems to have more
[8:19] clarity and that clarity is just allowing him to play with that
[8:24] bit of pause, right? Same as how he saw with Aliba.
[8:28] Aliba wasn't rushed in place. He was always willing to receive
[8:33] and play the ball. A player that really impressed
[8:36] me, which was like a big fear was how how Dean Hausen was
[8:42] going to adapt to the right side because he played with
[8:48] Bournemouth on the left, primarily with Spain on the left
[8:54] and with us on the left. Angles change.
[8:58] It came pretty comfortable for him and today we didn't see that
[9:04] overconfidence on his height that OK, I can win the aerial
[9:07] duel. No, he was just jumping.
[9:09] I got to win this and call it today, which is something that
[9:15] should be ingrained within him. That yes, you're taller than
[9:19] 99.9% of the players that you're going to face doesn't mean that
[9:24] if you don't give 100% effort, you're going to win every dual.
[9:28] And we got that today. At least a glimpse of that,
[9:31] given the tests that he had to face.
[9:34] Yeah, agreed. And I also liked, I liked how
[9:39] the I just felt like Cebios and Oliver opened that up for him
[9:42] too because they were just so calm.
[9:44] So when Dean got the ball, he could be very aggressive like
[9:46] Beckett bar, which he is anyways, as people point out.
[9:48] But today there was a lot of clarity.
[9:51] Those 3 Chuomeni was like solid but it's but those three made it
[9:55] easier. I don't know if I can say
[9:57] Chuomeni is the problem sometimes even if he takes a
[9:59] slow touch. It's like you can't have him and
[10:01] fete both doing the same. Thing that's the issue, right,
[10:04] It's him and Fete. It's not one because I still
[10:09] think you kind of need that slower touch player to give that
[10:14] call to to the team, like not let everything just turn
[10:17] chaotic. But when it's two of them and
[10:20] both of them are facing the same problem, can't carry the ball
[10:24] forward, which has been the case with Fede this season, and
[10:29] neither really pass at high quality.
[10:32] We're getting this and this what I today was a little bit of a
[10:37] fresher. One thing to be pointed out was
[10:41] that Courtois still started the game the same way how he ended
[10:45] up played the game really reluctant to pass the ball to
[10:49] the white centre backs. I don't understand why.
[10:54] Maybe it's still him fighting his demons of the game, not of
[10:59] the game, but of the seasons under Ancelotti.
[11:02] Like I'm still giving benefit of the doubt there, but still a lot
[11:07] of OK, I'm going to hoof it up because I'm way too afraid to
[11:10] play this pass here. Of course, as Madrid did wind
[11:14] the game down as we saw the midfielders drop a little bit
[11:17] more, it became easier for him. So he managed it better like he
[11:23] like I even got an assist through hoofing, but.
[11:26] Well, that that was so funny, so I want to touch on that.
[11:28] So the three weak links on the ball right are like Alaban
[11:31] Ceballos make it easier. Trumani and Fetty aren't
[11:34] perfect, you can't have them both.
[11:35] But Ascencio, Fran Garcia and Courtois were not great on the
[11:39] ball. And I thought the goal where
[11:41] Abape made it 2 nil was really funny because even in the first
[11:45] half second you see that the moves end with Fran Ascencio as
[11:48] you were pointing out like like Fran is just funny.
[11:51] After watching Carreras, it's like this guy only looks in One
[11:53] Direction. Carreras looks around.
[11:56] Like if he can run, he's good. If he can't.
[12:00] Yeah, he just turns around, looks like he he got into a wall
[12:02] and then he he won't 360. He won't play out of the press.
[12:05] So we have that happening. And that goal was really funny
[12:09] because Fran totally screws up a pass.
[12:11] Like it's such a dangerous place to play the ball back to your
[12:14] goalie. I'm watching that.
[12:15] I'm like, are you dumb, bro? Like what?
[12:16] Like who's that? Like who told you to pass that?
[12:19] Like, this is, that's the sort of thing you don't do.
[12:21] And and then Cortois hoofs it out of fear.
[12:24] He's like, oh damn, that was stupid.
[12:25] I'm kicking it long. And then Bapi collects it.
[12:29] To. Me, I thought that was the game
[12:31] right there. Besides the moments when we
[12:32] found Arda, it was basically like some moments we find Arda
[12:35] or Vinnie, things go well. Other moments Vinnie and Franco
[12:39] get crowded out on the flank because Ascencio and friend are
[12:42] bad, but then Killian becomes God and we win anyways is kind
[12:46] of the story of the game. Yeah, PAPI had another
[12:51] ridiculous game like this starting to become another, you
[12:55] know, another, another, another. But there's a lot, really.
[12:59] I'm not saying that the level is hat trick every game, but I'm
[13:02] saying getting us like over the hurdle.
[13:06] Like, I don't know how much that is going to be a factor for
[13:10] once. The big game started all around,
[13:13] but for time being, I always said that when you have players
[13:16] that you can lean on, you should just lean on as a coach until
[13:19] you figure out the rest. I think that right now Javi is
[13:24] on that first season period. You know, I've post the
[13:28] honeymoon where he actually now needs to figure out who's good
[13:32] and who's bad, like who's positive and who's negative.
[13:36] For example, like I sent you look, even on this show, I've
[13:39] I've tried to give him benefit of the doubt.
[13:41] Me and you were actually in the show last week where I tried to
[13:45] give a sense of some of the flowers, right?
[13:47] But my God, man, like we were starting to press a little bit
[13:54] and Franco has to cut a passing lane in a sense.
[13:58] He's just there behind housing and I'm like, that's not how
[14:03] you're going to allow us to press because the full back,
[14:07] even though he wasn't a natural full back, but he needs to be a
[14:10] supportive cast for the players. Otherwise there's always going
[14:14] to be a free man. Therefore that press is going to
[14:17] be broken every single time which leads to transitions and
[14:23] when those mistakes are constant thing like I'm not saying just
[14:27] one. Like if you go and rewatch the
[14:29] first half you'll see like Franco getting trapped between
[14:32] two to three players 5 or more times.
[14:36] That's dangerous for a team to deal with and just the sole idea
[14:42] that ascension is going to be a solution, if we want to call it
[14:49] that, it's just not it. I don't see it anymore.
[14:52] Confidence is low. The quality really on the player
[14:56] itself is low. Even if he had the confidence in
[14:59] the world at this point, I don't think that his qualities alone,
[15:03] let it be physical, technical, tactical, can cut it because
[15:07] there are too many deficiencies. Like he's best sailing right now
[15:13] in my eyes is five nil winning. You need to arrest players like
[15:20] he was in at 70th minute, you know, and he just kind of plays
[15:24] football out there. Not a player that you can rely
[15:27] on. Yeah.
[15:29] Did you think Fran was doing a better job stepping up than
[15:32] Ascencio on his? Yes, because we were narrowing
[15:36] Vini a lot, so Fran was doing a much better job.
[15:40] So they were constantly forced to find their left back.
[15:43] But again, it's not Franco Masatuano's problem that he has
[15:48] to deal with three players or when the help coverage was
[15:52] coming from one of the pivots, a sense he just wasn't there.
[15:57] So there was always that vacated space.
[15:59] If you remember, even against Marseille, I said that Valverde
[16:02] was being too slow at jumping in on the press, therefore they
[16:07] kept bypassing it at times. Same thing here.
[16:12] It's just that a sense he's not as depleted as Valverde.
[16:16] He's not out of energy. He's he should understand that
[16:20] there are some things that need to work in cohesion which he
[16:24] cannot break. Sometimes he takes one player
[16:26] really to completely break your shape out or another player
[16:31] having to do multiple jobs because that player just cannot
[16:35] do the the work. So like my highlight was that
[16:39] with Fran the issues were majority isolated on a ball,
[16:44] always looking back, always looking for the easiest
[16:48] opportunity to pass of all, no real risks being taken.
[16:52] Like outside of the stupid one on the goal, right?
[16:55] But that's not really a risk. He was trying to mitigate the
[16:57] risk of him which led to an almost goal conceded.
[17:03] But I don't know how you can manage games constantly when
[17:11] both fullbacks on this case, like you have 9 functional
[17:15] players really, because Tebow can still offer few things, but
[17:20] technically it's 8 on the ball, 8 versus 11.
[17:25] It's too big of a difference when you're trying to impose
[17:29] yourself and get that dominant asserted at all times.
[17:35] It was impressive. And I, I agree I, I am worried
[17:39] going forward about Barcelona and Villa Real just with these
[17:42] types of with the right backs. That's going to be a big
[17:44] concern. Another thing of this right
[17:49] Valverde is going to have to be there.
[17:51] It was nice to get Fete off the pitch today and just let him was
[17:55] huge. I agree with Alonzo not rotating
[17:58] on Papi. I think not rotating on Papi and
[18:00] dropping the line are just what you do when you're you're past
[18:03] the honeymoon but you didn't have a preseason.
[18:05] So everyone's expectations are very mismatched right now.
[18:08] They're it's just very high expectations.
[18:11] I get that we shouldn't play as bad as Athletico, but you know,
[18:14] I don't know if we can do much more than just beating teams by
[18:17] decent margin. It's not the biggest margins,
[18:19] but I don't know if we can strive for big final wins right
[18:22] now. And yeah, I wouldn't in that
[18:24] case, just lean on Embape. I thought, yeah, it was funny
[18:27] how Mbappe blew that chance from Vinnie to get his hat trick, but
[18:30] then he got it later and Alonzo subbed him off immediately
[18:33] because he knew, like, I need you to get this win and I need
[18:36] to keep you happy and bought in. But also, like, get off the
[18:39] pitch, man, That's enough. Yeah.
[18:41] I need you to be happy. I I don't want you to think I'm
[18:44] going against you for the Balandor.
[18:45] You need your hat trick. But yeah, yeah, yeah.
[18:48] And I just want to say Guler, I'm starting to really enjoy
[18:53] watching him like more than at the like, I he was good to start
[18:56] the year, but it felt like a little mechanical, like, oh,
[18:59] they have these Arda automatisms.
[19:01] They just Arda threw balls. Now it's starting to feel like
[19:04] just something where 'cause he's arriving, he's shooting in the
[19:07] box. Some of these turns he's making
[19:09] like are crazy. I didn't know he had that type
[19:12] of press resistant turning in him.
[19:14] Like we hadn't seen it all the time.
[19:15] Like you have to. He hasn't played in the pockets
[19:17] and been asked to do that. Now he's just spinning people
[19:19] and the passing is also it's just right there.
[19:22] It it's very also like the lack of effort it takes for him to
[19:27] put it on a platter for the striker.
[19:29] It it's like like even when he's tired, the passes are second
[19:32] nature and really excited. The main thing for me is I find
[19:37] it interesting that he's kind of still been barred from the first
[19:41] phase of build up fully. It's like maybe if you show up
[19:44] in the first phase, it's to pass back.
[19:45] But they had a very specific plan to get it through to Amani,
[19:48] Dean Alabasebayos, ping it around till the line breaking
[19:51] pass. As soon as they got it to Guler,
[19:54] there was no waiting. There was no 75 passes.
[19:58] And like high pass action Guler, it was like, give me 30 passes,
[20:01] I'm going to fire all of them through the defense.
[20:03] Let's see what we get. And it's interesting because
[20:06] when you pair it with like you can see, we need the Sibios and
[20:10] Aliba. And Guler's maybe better fit to
[20:13] play big games than Sibios and Aliba just overall in terms of
[20:16] his quality of play. And so it just makes you wonder,
[20:19] like, can Guler be enough to make this team dominate a big
[20:22] game? Is that enough?
[20:23] And you know, the the role he's in now, we're not going to
[20:26] control games that way. We're going to win them with
[20:28] him. But it's interesting because
[20:30] he's starting to show flashes where you wonder, could he do a
[20:33] little more of the modern stuff? I do wonder if like this
[20:37] something that I've been wondering for a bet due to the
[20:42] work rate, right? If we're speaking for the big
[20:44] games due to the grid and everything, is there maybe a set
[20:49] up where not a three at back, but by all technicalities,
[20:53] Franco is the right back, but it turns into three at back.
[20:58] So Chua mini pulls back and both center backs are split with
[21:03] Franco and Arda on the right and Venetius and Jude on left and
[21:09] Papa floating. And then you still have two
[21:12] pivots to lean on. I don't think he'd do the lack
[21:15] of natural width on the right because Franco Guler is like
[21:19] there's not enough. I think Franco is a right winger
[21:22] gives you that width. Franco is a right back.
[21:24] I don't know if you get the same width.
[21:25] I mean, maybe it's just. Yeah.
[21:27] But Millital like it all depends on Millital's health so much
[21:34] because I think that Millital can provide just enough.
[21:39] Probably maybe I'm going to we're going to have to see that
[21:43] because we kind of saw a glimpse of that against Levante, right,
[21:47] with a sensual more like a center back and a right back and
[21:51] Franco, but that was Levante, right?
[21:53] So it's we're we would be talking a whole different level
[22:00] of responsibility for Franco. But if you can get at least that
[22:06] and glare getting that opportunity to drop in, because
[22:10] one of the major issues for me against that late year was a
[22:14] fact of the big disparity on how much the ball Tramini and
[22:20] Volverde saw compared to Jude and Arda, right?
[22:24] Like Arda had 32 passes, Jude had 27.
[22:29] So and Volver, they had 65 with Chuomeni having 60.
[22:35] I know that there's a bit of a minute difference between them,
[22:39] but still that's like too big of a too big of a difference.
[22:43] And the players that I would want to have the ball more in
[22:47] again, like that would be hard. And Jude normally in that setup,
[22:52] but not allowed really. Carajal was the only one holding
[22:55] the width on that game or somewhat of a width.
[22:59] Carreras on the other side same because we keep attempting that
[23:03] bolt of Venetius Venetius passes so we can create that plus one
[23:08] and Papa can get can use Venetius or or da or whoever is
[23:13] making the run to make the decoy behind the defense.
[23:17] And we, we split them, which didn't work even on the on
[23:21] Darby, but it becomes a more prominent thing on the way how
[23:28] we're going to proceed forward. If we want to control the game
[23:32] defensively, it's probably not happening with Chuomini and Jude
[23:35] in like making that many passes. One of them has to sacrifice
[23:38] usage. And I agree that like some
[23:41] combination of Jude, Franco, art of Vinnie and Bape together on
[23:45] the pitch would look fancy. I think the main thing is
[23:48] Guler's duels are not something that pushed me off and like just
[23:53] between everything I heard about Alonzo's Leverkusen, maybe he's
[23:56] trying to make him Florian works right now first before dropping
[23:59] him deeper. Like like he he's a little
[24:02] higher up right now. But but with that being said,
[24:05] like the duel winning is not bad from Arda.
[24:08] Like he he's like, he's not bad. Like yes, he can't have the
[24:11] ball. So don't make him defend corners
[24:13] if you can avoid it. But he he's not terrible and
[24:17] it's kind of like Madrich. It can be deceptive sometimes.
[24:20] I don't think he's like Madrich defensively, but offensively I,
[24:22] I don't always feel scared he'll lose the ball when like a big
[24:25] body goes up against him. I just think he can get away
[24:27] with it. He he can push it away, right?
[24:30] Like, for example, we can't really use the dueling when we
[24:33] got dominated, if you want to call it that, like coke, right?
[24:37] And it's not even this Peacoke, you know, it's, it's like a
[24:40] player on the near end of his career.
[24:43] So, you know, like what physique there?
[24:47] It's not about the physique. It's yeah, at that point, yeah.
[24:50] Yeah. Like at that point, like if we
[24:52] were losing duels to cocaine, it wasn't about who was playing.
[24:54] And like with Trumani and Fetti on the pitch, we're losing duels
[24:57] to cocaine. Like it made no sense.
[24:59] Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
[25:00] Right. So it's more about the reaction.
[25:03] As I said, again, you need players like Arda, for example,
[25:08] or even Jude that don't always need multiple touches, touches
[25:13] to release it. Like even Jude when he came on
[25:15] to that, right, you could see there were a few spins on the
[25:18] midfield to get rid of the pressure and then, OK, easy
[25:23] peasy we go. There's a lot of space that
[25:27] offers you that luxury of multiple touches, but if you're
[25:32] in a tight game like the athletic one was constantly, you
[25:37] don't get out for that. And that's why maybe an
[25:42] intriguing part would be somebody like Kama Vinga.
[25:46] While Kama Vinga takes touches his or vertical or he can assert
[25:52] with dribbles, win a foul or maybe even break a line with a
[25:58] dribbling. With his dribbling, it's not
[26:01] Vulverde, at least right now with Fede.
[26:04] It's not the same guy that used to be, you know, the one where
[26:08] you would pass the ball slowly and he would drift and be able
[26:11] to carry it over long distances because he's created that.
[26:15] He's not bullying players the same way anymore.
[26:18] Energy depletion, a lot of things.
[26:20] He even himself said on the press conference yesterday that
[26:24] I'm fully aware I'm not playing well, so there is definitely
[26:28] something going on with him. Maybe he's well.
[26:30] I think it's just fatigue for me.
[26:32] It's not a question. It's fatigue because I've I've
[26:34] watched him, I've been tired. Like when I'm tired, I can't
[26:36] move. Like if if you tell me to do
[26:38] something, I might like react slowly.
[26:40] Like while you say it, I won't even respond as fast.
[26:42] For me, I think with Fete I, I take offense to the idea that a
[26:46] position change is what's going to help fix him when he's just
[26:49] tired. Like you put a tired midfielder
[26:52] right back and ask him to play like a fullback now.
[26:54] Like what are you thinking? Like you're now you're him to
[26:56] cover both ends of the floor up and down.
[26:59] I I don't believe that's the thing main thing with.
[27:01] This Fetty, you're gonna, you're gonna have to pair him with
[27:04] Franco, right, to take that load off.
[27:06] But Fetty is smart enough, unlike I sent here, to know at
[27:09] least where to be. What to do?
[27:11] Yeah. Yeah.
[27:11] And on that note, I think today just confirms me, like in a
[27:15] Derby, you probably needed Franco out there.
[27:17] You just need your most athletic, like, physical, like
[27:19] dual hungry guy, like, love you, Jude.
[27:21] And, you know, separate from all the tactics, like Franco was
[27:24] fighting today, he's just always a fighter and he, he didn't have
[27:28] a great game necessarily, but he's just always arriving,
[27:31] always fighting. And you know, if he loses the
[27:33] ball, he's chasing back for it. But yeah, just on that note,
[27:38] though, our, our overall midfield ceiling composition
[27:40] these two games, I just can't tell if like I can't tell if
[27:45] there's a like, cuz the big team, I think the last two games
[27:48] for me has been OK. Like we don't have Cruz and
[27:50] Madrich anymore. We don't have Pedri de Young say
[27:54] Barcelona, that 100 pass per game, 90% pass accuracy guy.
[27:58] And does that mean our midfield's worse?
[28:00] And did we did Perez lean too much into this tall 6 foot two
[28:05] way athletic dribbler archetype? Like the, the taller, the more
[28:09] imposing players. But that's where, as you say,
[28:11] Camo Vinga and Guler are the intriguing ones here because
[28:14] like get a composition where Guler can play.
[28:16] He's our technical guy, our wizard, our Modridge, our
[28:19] cruise, our Pedriniesta, whatever you call him.
[28:20] And then you get Camelinga in there.
[28:24] He can start plays as a six and them as a 10, as Alonzo said.
[28:28] And I think he, I think Cama Vinga is the one that pretty
[28:32] much shifts the assumption of how good you think our midfield
[28:35] is. If Cama Vinga is bad to you, if
[28:37] you think he's injured, if you think he's not a plus passer, if
[28:40] you think he kind of tackles whatever he wants to do and
[28:42] doesn't fit into a team concept, you might think he doesn't work.
[28:45] If you see what we see in Cama Vinga, which is I see at least,
[28:48] which is 1. Never fully defensively
[28:50] optimized under Carlo, never like used to mitigate Carlo's
[28:54] weaknesses as a coach and to go win duels, but never like put in
[28:58] a place where he mops up second balls the way Alonso's trying to
[29:01] have Feta and Chuomeni do. Now to the dribbling, Like he
[29:06] like, yes, he can't pass as well.
[29:07] But I actually think in the way the modern game works in these
[29:10] big matchups, like Camovinga is damn near as press resistance as
[29:13] a lot of players, but I think Alonso needs to hold his hand a
[29:16] little to make him go from very press resistance to the final
[29:19] level. But I think my hot take is yeah
[29:22] like a healthy Camovinga and Guler makes us the most press
[29:26] resistant team. But with that being said I still
[29:28] don't know what the line up looks like outside that.
[29:30] Like I guess Miller, Tao and Dean will be behind him but
[29:33] without Oliban Sabayos question. Marks right now, that's why I
[29:38] said like Alonzo is now on that phase of I need to figure out
[29:44] what actually is my best 11 and what are the best substitutions
[29:49] for this 11. And it's not an easy phase.
[29:54] I think that international break funny enough, is coming at a
[29:57] right time for him because it gives him a little bit more
[30:03] thinking time before he gets his players back.
[30:06] Of course, fingers crossed they're going to be out play
[30:09] when they come back. But for him as a coach itself,
[30:13] he needs to figure out a lot of things, like what is he really
[30:16] going to do until like January, right?
[30:20] Is he going to stay with this more dropped defense?
[30:27] I want to be a little bit more safe and just let my attackers
[30:32] do their thing because they have the quality to do so.
[30:35] Or is he going to go back to OK, I need to accelerate the
[30:40] process. I have Kamalinga fed, Jude fed,
[30:44] Orla fed example, right? I have all of these guys fed
[30:48] right now and I know what my write backs provide once they're
[30:51] back. So am I gonna try to go back to
[30:55] that and try to establish and get it on their head as quickly
[31:02] as possible? Like even the players themselves
[31:04] admitted that there are still not really demons.
[31:07] We can't really call them demons, but things of the past,
[31:11] the nature of the way how they play them, their Ancelotti still
[31:15] shows within them, which is something they admitted
[31:18] themselves. So it's more like, is that going
[31:23] to be phased out or does he need to do this now where less risks,
[31:29] right? But as you said, lower margins
[31:32] of goals, but higher margins of winning the games.
[31:37] That's how I would call it. And.
[31:39] I, I would say the reality is as a coach, you, you do need to
[31:43] tinker. It's not a want.
[31:44] You kind of need to know what you're capable of.
[31:46] But when results aren't going well in the fall, you also need
[31:50] results. So I think Alonso essentially
[31:53] comes down to like, it's like the athletic game.
[31:54] We won seven in a row. He had bought just enough space
[31:57] where, OK, he can go test something.
[31:59] If it goes wrong, fine, we won seven Now.
[32:01] Like you need to buy that credit back, win a few games in a row
[32:04] when the team's in a confident moment, maybe in the right
[32:06] fixture, you test something again.
[32:08] If it goes wrong, you've earned that confidence with time.
[32:12] I don't think, yeah, I just don't think we're the club that
[32:13] goes through a season like Manchester City 20/16/17 where
[32:18] they just tried building out and lost everything.
[32:20] They just threw the season away because they weren't trying to.
[32:22] They were trying to build for the years in the future, which I
[32:24] don't. I would never do that but.
[32:27] Yeah. And funny enough, for them to
[32:29] win the Champions League, they still have to lean away from
[32:31] that. Yeah, yeah.
[32:35] Yes, they did. But I I I will maintain though,
[32:37] I just don't think Man City could acquire the quality of
[32:40] player that we could during the three peat time.
[32:42] Like they're not as good. So you're not like Guardio.
[32:46] I just think it's a proof that like you need the best players
[32:49] alive to implement the best pipe style.
[32:50] Like if you when you had Chubby Busquets and yes, that was easy
[32:53] when when it's John Stones and Rodri who needs to learn how to
[32:56] win duels. It takes a couple years, Yeah,
[33:00] but but yeah. So I think it's an interesting
[33:03] time because it's cool to see each game, the tug of war
[33:07] between the more technical needs of the team and the more
[33:10] physical demands of the team. It's a cool tug of war.
[33:14] Like, you know, we we Le Conte, we moved so quickly into the
[33:17] Cruz Madrich era. And then we had those years
[33:20] where the young guys just augmented them.
[33:21] It's like we never had to pick. It's just feels so weird having
[33:24] to pick right now. It's more of like who's going to
[33:27] be, you know, partnering them basically or we, if we're
[33:33] talking about their peak, for example, are we going to get a
[33:35] bail on a wing or an East Coast like a #10 connector or whatever
[33:39] we want to call it? It was a lot easier.
[33:43] So now we're in a space, as I said, Alonzo doesn't have the
[33:47] most comfortable position right now.
[33:50] As you said, this isn't even about like he definitely needs
[33:56] to shrink the wins that's for sure.
[33:58] Like even for today like Madrid had like 3.7 XG or something of
[34:03] this, you know? It wasn't like a completely dead
[34:05] performance which every chance turned into a goal.
[34:08] Not really, but it wasn't that electric performance that we
[34:14] would have naturally probably gotten.
[34:16] No, it was a very average final. It's a weirdly, exactly right.
[34:20] It's a weirdly average final where you still created 4
[34:23] expected goals. It just felt like there was not
[34:25] as much control over the game. It's like we let them lose the
[34:27] ball because they don't have technical quality.
[34:29] Then we went with better quality, but we didn't impose
[34:32] ourselves as aggressively because we had to play it safe.
[34:35] Until the Subs I want to say because both Subs it felt
[34:38] Kamalinga Jude Brahim Rodrigo's cameo I think needs worth
[34:46] mentioning. Yes, very good.
[34:48] Galer took that assist, though, with that little touch.
[34:51] Oh, that touch was really, I really liked it.
[34:55] You know it, it's very subtle, right?
[34:57] But it just gave moped that Glen has that timing, which it's
[35:05] really irreplaceable, right? Because he sees Zimbabwe's shape
[35:09] and the way Alimbabwe is going. So the tesh is very small just
[35:14] so it leans perfectly on his feet.
[35:16] Like keep in mind this what I call somebody that's literally a
[35:20] passing maestro when it comes to the final third, like somebody
[35:25] that not only makes the right pass but weights it perfectly as
[35:31] opposed to what the attacker wants.
[35:33] For example, let's put that in comparison to Rodriguez cross
[35:38] for Kamavinga, right? It's a great cross, but you can
[35:41] see that Kama Vinga is positioning to where it's
[35:45] easiest for Rodrigo to get the ball in.
[35:48] With Guiller, it's the opposite, right?
[35:50] He sees the way how the attacker moves and he just passes the
[35:54] ball there and then for real. Like the Ozil comparisons are
[35:59] just real. Yeah, it is real.
[36:01] It's weird. That smoothness on the pass and
[36:06] that that's just there and I love that order will help.
[36:10] Like, I think that Alonzo also leaned from him in deeper areas
[36:15] a little bit away because sometimes Arva was overdoing
[36:19] things. Like he had like a stretch of
[36:22] like four games in a row where his error led to an actual
[36:26] chance. So I think that it's also a
[36:29] mitigation of order by himself. I don't think that he's going
[36:35] like, OK or like, you're costing us.
[36:36] You're going to play higher. No.
[36:38] But normally he doesn't want that to sit on orders
[36:41] consciousness for way too long. He wants to allow him to express
[36:45] himself freely, still without damaging the team, I still
[36:50] think. Yeah, no, because Guler, like
[36:53] it's pretty obvious. It's a coach's mandate.
[36:55] When you get the ball, go for it.
[36:56] Like don't, don't wait. Like it's the whole team knows
[36:59] when he gets it. They all make the run waiting
[37:01] for him. So yeah, they they've given him
[37:03] that responsibility. But we need to Zimbabwe
[37:05] connection though I really like. I don't think we dominate A
[37:12] smush or give these two the platform a smush for time being
[37:16] right? But that action felt like a
[37:18] PlayStation one, you know, the one where Mbappe didn't score.
[37:22] It genuinely felt like these two just can close their eyes and
[37:26] just know where each other are. That's rare.
[37:29] But Vinicius, again, we spoke about this even privately on the
[37:33] group. Vinicius feels depleted of
[37:36] energy, same as Vulvar. A little bit like when people
[37:40] were complaining today that he got subbed off.
[37:42] I'm like, well, this guy's barely sprinting.
[37:45] It's not and I don't think that it's a will think.
[37:50] I just think that he genuinely might be same as you know.
[37:57] Yeah, his minutes load has not been as high, which is why I
[38:02] can't tell as clearly because and also when he turns it on
[38:05] one-on-one, he's just a different player.
[38:07] I can't tell as much, but it is possible.
[38:09] It's also it's also just requires a little more isolation
[38:13] on the left wing from him, the system little less cutting in
[38:16] and Mbappe is now left the left wing to him and he's just doing
[38:19] all the non left wing things. So they've clearly split up the
[38:22] duties. It's just about more time and
[38:24] reps. I just think you're trying to
[38:26] build the base. You're trying to build the base
[38:27] where you give everyone confidence.
[38:29] Vinny's the last player you're going to cater to for
[38:32] confidence. I don't think people realize
[38:33] this guy's already won you 2 Champions Leagues.
[38:35] You don't need to cater to him. You know he's going to be fine.
[38:37] Like the main thing is, yeah, the main concern is if you're
[38:42] worried about his individual trajectory, if you are worried
[38:45] about his expected goals going down or our ceiling.
[38:47] I think Vinnies individual production going down a little
[38:50] as we try to figure it out and learn how to play defense is
[38:54] fine as long as we win games. Like I guess personally I care
[38:58] more about the team so and I, I'm just, and I, I just don't
[39:01] think a player who has LED us to 2 Champions Leagues can lose
[39:04] confidence at all. Like I don't even believe he
[39:07] can. Like I'm there like like a few
[39:09] bad games under Alonzo. He still goes after it with the
[39:12] same vigor in every game. Like, well, I hear one week
[39:14] about the media making fun of a play, then the next week he gets
[39:18] benched and then he's going and getting a goal and assist when
[39:20] Alonzo brings him off the bench. I don't believe in losing
[39:23] confidence for him. And yeah, I honestly think like
[39:26] him and Rodrigo and Jude honestly are the last guys who
[39:29] need confidence. Guler, Killian, Franco, Andrick,
[39:33] all these new guys need to get going.
[39:35] So the pressure is often like the way those 3 carried us two
[39:38] years ago is just not that sustainable.
[39:41] It required them to have crazy individual years.
[39:44] And you know, on that note, I think even Jude is someone who
[39:48] like, I don't think we need to put too much pressure to
[39:51] integrate him. I think he takes his time.
[39:52] But with that being said, I can't see why he would play a
[39:55] little deeper in the maybe in the pivot in a team like this.
[39:58] But I will just say. I can't see Jude like trying to
[40:03] vacate the lanes for other players, bro like and make
[40:05] little subtle passes. That's you do that for him.
[40:08] He doesn't do that for you. I'm sorry.
[40:09] Like Jude, he, he's just going to do it and be like bro, like
[40:12] attack his face and he's going to get mad when he doesn't see
[40:14] someone do it and he's going to run up his life.
[40:16] Like, he's going to get pissed and you're going to see, you're
[40:18] going to see him telling every player to fuck off.
[40:22] Not doing that, but yeah. And I get it, I I get it too.
[40:26] And I wouldn't confine. I just think if you're willing
[40:28] to move off the ball, play a little higher up, move around
[40:31] the the players who are deep are the ones who want to play more
[40:33] stationary game. Yeah, but I'm just thinking of
[40:37] like Carreras overall, right? Him the way how I had structured
[40:42] the left wing for me always was better Fran and Rodrigo, Vinnie
[40:47] and Carreras like this was this for me is the perfect blend.
[40:52] Because number one, if you really want to get Vinnie to the
[40:55] left side a little bit more and more isolated that way you can
[41:00] take some load of up and down of Carreras and you can let him be
[41:05] more like a passer out of the back.
[41:08] He can dribble dribble fast players to progress the ball
[41:12] doesn't struggle in that department at all and Vinnie can
[41:15] hold the flag on his own as we have seen, but Rodrigo doesn't
[41:20] have the physical capacity to do that as example.
[41:23] So that will automatically put a load on full back to actually
[41:29] keep on, you know, just to keep on following the attacks.
[41:33] That's why Fran is much better pseudo there.
[41:36] Vinnie and Fran just doesn't seem like the perfect
[41:39] combination. Even today you saw that Vinnie
[41:42] was trying to go on the inside a lot more to give him that
[41:45] running channel. But it's not very natural.
[41:50] It's not very who they are. It's more of like a force.
[41:53] I'm not saying it can't work, but I'm saying it's a bit more
[41:57] force and it's it doesn't come across as as natural as it
[42:02] should. Like today we got some good
[42:03] news. I don't know how how real they
[42:05] are that Carajal might make it back for El Classico, which is a
[42:11] huge thing if true, But again, that we want to rely on 33 years
[42:17] old coming back from an injury, which is a cold for injury.
[42:22] I don't know, because we need trend back.
[42:26] We need carve all back like that's one of the at least one
[42:29] of the two they they on. That note I think we might.
[42:35] I wouldn't be too shocked if we drop points this weekend.
[42:37] They're third bro. Villarreal are third in the
[42:41] league. I didn't even realize.
[42:42] Let me just check their underline. 3rd ones which was
[42:46] espanol right? Yes, but that was half the
[42:50] sample size though. Now we're looking at eight games
[42:52] in 3rd, a little harder. Yeah, but one thing that I'll
[42:56] give to Alonzo. Their their third unexpected
[42:59] points. Oh, I just want to say sorry,
[43:00] their third Villarreal are ahead of us in understats expected
[43:03] points table that simulates the expected goals.
[43:06] So just strictly in terms not like accounting for who they
[43:08] played, but just strictly in terms of chances created and
[43:10] conceded. We're fourth in the league.
[43:12] Athletico are second, Villarreal are third, Barcelona are first.
[43:15] So I'm honestly, I don't know if like we got enough data from
[43:20] this game to find out like how he's going to play.
[43:23] We'll see. But I just want to put out like
[43:27] I think this weekend we might drop points and then need the
[43:29] international break. Is that is it right after this
[43:30] weekend? Yes.
[43:33] OK, cool. Yeah.
[43:34] So listen, if we can get three points on Saturday, that would
[43:37] be big. I think that's the first big
[43:39] mark because then you get that international break.
[43:41] You need those three points, if I'm really being honest, because
[43:46] I don't know if you really want to go into international break
[43:49] with Demons of we have dropped points back-to-back on the two
[43:53] biggest games and then come back to play in a tough way.
[43:59] Juventus and Barcelona. It's way too.
[44:05] The environment would become way too toxic.
[44:09] Not the clubs, but the fans and everybody, right?
[44:13] The expectations would be way too high.
[44:16] So whichever way Alonso has to go with that game, it's a
[44:21] Marcelino team. Their goalkeeper doesn't seem to
[44:25] be the best, like I'll say that much for my viewing.
[44:28] So probably you squeeze in some and Bobby shots and you just
[44:32] kind of hope that you'll be able to get the game going and win
[44:38] it. I believe this team has the
[44:40] capabilities to do that. But not so far in La Liga,
[44:44] right? Alonzo is 8 out of nine now with
[44:48] Madrid, right? This season 9 games played 8/1
[44:52] so there were two games which stand out to me.
[44:59] First one was Espanol and the second one was Levante.
[45:05] We made both of these teams quit mid game yeah, as many all got
[45:10] rid of all of their best players that went like Nope, it's it
[45:14] wasn't an unreachable result. Like when you look at the score
[45:18] line, it was just the football, right?
[45:21] You made them feel hopeless. So they just went like Nope, not
[45:25] having more of this going to try to preserve my players as much
[45:27] as I can. And same happened for Levant.
[45:31] They just felt that OK, there's nothing on it.
[45:34] We just can't even try anymore. And to me, those are still
[45:39] things that are there. It's just can we tap into them
[45:44] on Saturday, for example, even today we we tapped into it at
[45:48] times, even though today was. An easy opponent, yeah.
[45:51] Easy, right? They still tapped into that idea
[45:55] that I'm not not really going to let you be like again.
[45:59] I kept tweeting about the ascension mistakes because even
[46:03] the penalty that was first awarded just comes because the
[46:08] sentio is not really there. So say BIOS is having to track.
[46:14] I don't. I just hope that for that game
[46:19] Fede, at least that's some energy.
[46:22] Fenny. Fenny is probably playing that.
[46:23] Like, I think what people don't understand is Freddy is tired
[46:26] playing twice a week. Like he's tired playing twice a
[46:28] week. If you played him once a week
[46:30] the rest of the season, I don't know, I think within three weeks
[46:33] you'd get the like, good old Fetty back.
[46:35] Like pretty. Soon.
[46:35] Yeah, yeah, yeah. He doesn't get lucky and he
[46:37] doesn't get called up on this international break because it's
[46:41] literally just friendless for Uruguay.
[46:44] Yeah, that would be. Nice.
[46:45] If he was OK, I don't want to say smart, right, but what he.
[46:52] Yeah, he should do is take an injury on Saturday and then like
[46:55] not go to Uruguay, yeah. Flat or just call BLS and be
[46:58] like, look, I'm nowhere near my physical level to play.
[47:03] Those are friendlies. Can somebody else play like he?
[47:06] Has a lot of BLS hard? Definitely, definitely don't go
[47:09] play for BLS. Yeah, it's hard, right?
[47:12] But I think he needs to take that one because it should give
[47:18] him just enough time to recover, yeah.
[47:21] Yeah, at least. Some.
[47:24] Definitely. And so we go to Villarreal.
[47:26] We we were flying back probably today or something.
[47:29] We we get home. They should fly back immediately
[47:32] after the game so it's like a 10 hour flight.
[47:35] Well, we'll have a Villarreal preview and mailbag show on
[47:38] Friday previewing the plane and then we'll be back for the Villa
[47:42] Rial game. We play them Saturday.
[47:45] Saturday 9:00 PM CT, so Spanish local time.
[47:49] Yes, case sounds good. So yeah, thank you all for
[47:51] tuning in. We will be back on Friday and
[47:53] then Saturday, if you like the show, give it a like maybe
[47:56] subscribe or even better if you could tell a close friend to
[47:59] check it out. Follow us and TuneIn, someone
[48:03] who might appreciate the tactical narratives we bring
[48:05] here, the elevated discourse we're trying to bring to Real
[48:07] Madrid. That would be greatly
[48:08] appreciated. Lakante, any final thoughts here
[48:11] as we close? Well, not really.
[48:13] I hope that I fixed my mic because I saw some complaints.
[48:18] I hope now it's fixed. And just one more thing.
[48:21] If you guys want to check this out, it's also on Apple and
[48:25] Spotify. You can also find us there.
[48:28] So yeah, we'll see you guys on Friday.

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