# Can Mbappe & Vinicius Coexist?

An episode of [The Real Deal: A Real Madrid Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1807821669), 15 Jul 2025, 1 h 01 min.

Audio: https://anchor.fm/s/103607aa8/podcast/play/105541388/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2025-6-15%2F403965262-44100-2-f8a8e18993fbb.mp3

Loconte and Jarod Hector discuss the Vinicius-Mbappe dynamics, which were put in the spotlight once again during the loss to PSG at the Club World Cup. Is their lack of defensive execution overplayed? Will they coexist offensively?

## Transcript

[1:02] Hello, welcome to The Real Deal, a Real Madrid podcast with me,
[1:07] Sherrod Hector, joined today by Le Conte.
[1:09] What's up, man? What's up?
[1:12] Welcome to everybody and this is going to be a fun one.
[1:15] Yeah, it's going to be a fun one.
[1:16] Thank you to everybody, as always, for listening to this
[1:20] episode. Please, if you like it so much,
[1:23] like comment, subscribe to the YouTube channel.
[1:25] If you only want the audio version, you can get that on
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[1:30] same thing there like subscribe comments.
[1:32] So we do read them. We do try to improve the show.
[1:35] All right, Lecande, we are firmly now in Real Madrid's
[1:38] offseason. And now it's time for players to
[1:41] get some rest. And, you know, Jabi and the
[1:43] coaching staff to get together with the board and figure out
[1:46] what additional signings they're gonna make things of that
[1:49] nature, who they might sell, and then start to, you know, adjust
[1:53] and tweak what he wants to do tactically heading into next
[1:56] season, which begins in August. So one of the things that that
[2:00] that that happened in the, as a result of this, the Club World
[2:03] Cup, and really it's kind of been happening all season, if,
[2:06] if we're being honest about it, is that there's sort of this
[2:10] civil war happening within the Real Madrid fan base between
[2:14] Benicia's junior fans and Killian and Bape fans.
[2:18] And they're both attacking each other, basically saying your
[2:22] player is the reason why we're not doing well.
[2:24] And they're just all lobbing insults and hurls at one
[2:27] another. And look, we get it.
[2:29] Fandom is emotional and that's what draws people into the
[2:31] games. People love to defend their
[2:33] favorite player. I get all that.
[2:36] But as usual here at at the Real Deal, we like to think about
[2:39] things from a critical standpoint.
[2:41] We like to be factual about, We talked about like to be accurate
[2:44] and use actual analysis. So I thought today would be a
[2:46] good time to sort of go into, you know, this Killian versus
[2:50] Vinnie divide and sort of figure out what's true, what's nonsense
[2:55] and what we think going forward. So let's just start at the top.
[2:58] La Kante. Obviously, these are two of the
[3:01] best attacking players on planet Earth.
[3:03] So what are the advantages to having Killian Mbappe and
[3:07] Venetius Junior in your starting 11?
[3:10] Assess goals, chance creation like you know, if we want a very
[3:14] simple two of the best players in the world, there is so much
[3:18] that goes with them. They can offer you so much
[3:20] different dimensions. Like even if you look in La Liga
[3:23] last season, while the team didn't inherently do well, these
[3:26] guys still ranked among the top players on for the roles that
[3:31] they were given like Vinnie and Mbappe or top 4 dribblers in La
[3:36] Liga alone for last season. And as an overall package, both
[3:41] crossed that what we expect from the attackers, which is 40 goals
[3:45] and assists at bare minimum, both across cross that threshold
[3:50] this season. So when we look at their
[3:53] positives, there's a lot that comes with them.
[3:56] Of course, we're still really early, as you said, emotion,
[4:01] overreaction, and it's been only a season of them together into a
[4:06] bit of a disjointed team. That was last season and we only
[4:10] got like 8 minutes of sample size against PSG before
[4:15] everything was broken down of them two together.
[4:19] Unfortunate events and Boppe got that sickness, whatever he had
[4:24] where he had even hospitalized. So we didn't really get to see
[4:28] much of that under Jabi. So it's hard to comment when it
[4:32] comes to it, but hypothetically speaking, it is just we only got
[4:38] 8 minutes of 2 pure quality players, at least from the huge
[4:43] sample size that we have of them both across their careers.
[4:46] Of course, Zimbabwe sees longer on Span when it comes to Europe,
[4:51] right? But Vinnie struggled as Sid
[4:54] mentioned on last episode, early on with Madrid with the end
[4:57] product. But once Carlo came around, he
[5:01] got the installed confidence, he worked with with the sports
[5:04] psychologist, he got over the hurdle and he became like one of
[5:07] the key catalysts of Real Madrid to win 2 Champions Leagues, by
[5:11] the way, which is more than 90% of clubs have won ever.
[5:17] So when you're having that sort of impact, I feel that the
[5:21] discourse is a little bit weird. While I do know that Baba hasn't
[5:26] won the Champions League as as of yet, he's a World Cup winner
[5:30] and he's scored a hat trick on the World Cup finally, one which
[5:33] they lost in penalties and he won the other one, well scoring
[5:37] on the other one. So it's like each part of the
[5:42] fan base trying to behave like the other hasn't done enough
[5:48] throughout their career. Given the sample is just very
[5:50] unjust. Yes.
[5:52] And and I think to your point, right as I said that to that
[5:55] idea that neither has done anything, it's just flatly
[5:57] untrue. It is inaccurate, right Like we
[6:00] just told like it's just factually inaccurate.
[6:02] Look, we can all admit this was a down year for mini production
[6:06] wise, OK, However, across all competitions, 21 goals and 15
[6:11] assists, right? Like let me tell you right now,
[6:13] your favorite Liverpool and Arsenal forwards would love to
[6:17] have right most Allah side, right, would love to have those
[6:20] kinds of numbers right? Like it It's just yes, he was
[6:22] not what he was two seasons ago when we won the Champions
[6:25] League. OK, we, we, we all we understand
[6:27] that, right, But he was still productive as a winger.
[6:31] Now, any time you bring in another player of Killian
[6:34] Mbappe's stature, that's going to alter the chemistry of the
[6:38] team. Because remember, Vinny was our
[6:40] Talisman, right? He was our protagonist, our main
[6:43] guy. We I we joke about all the time.
[6:45] But under Carlo ball, it was spam the ball to Vinny, let him
[6:48] cook. And while that has its problems
[6:52] in the long run, often times in the short run, it's a very
[6:55] effective way to to score goals because he's a hard player to
[6:58] check one-on-one. And you know, when you are
[7:01] playing that way and playing that aggressively and doing all
[7:05] those dribbles all game long over the course of really two
[7:07] seasons, that wears on you, right?
[7:09] And the idea of having Imbaba here is to share some of that
[7:13] load, right? Take some of that load off of
[7:15] him a bit. And look, we can all admit under
[7:18] Carlo, like if there was still, if there wasn't any sort of
[7:22] structure to help them, right, sort of work best of each other.
[7:26] We know Carlo loves relations. And so it was like, hey, you
[7:28] guys figure it out amongst yourselves up top.
[7:31] And let's be honest, right? Like there were moments where it
[7:33] looked great and other moments where it looked horrendous,
[7:36] right? And I think now to your point,
[7:39] we've only had 8 minutes on the job, but we had no real
[7:41] coaching. Again, I mean, the guys had nine
[7:43] training sessions like with and Bobby was sick as, as you
[7:46] mentioned, for the majority of them.
[7:47] So he didn't even get to get to actually have normal training
[7:50] sessions. It's going to take time in
[7:52] development. But I think when you have two
[7:54] players of this magnitude on your team, that is a win upon
[7:58] win upon win upon win in a sport that has low margin, as we often
[8:02] talk about, you want people who can put the ball in the net.
[8:05] And we've got two guys who can. I mean, we have more than two
[8:08] guys, but we're talking about these two right now.
[8:10] Two guys who do it at an elite elite level, at the highest
[8:14] level in terms of goals, assists, chances created by the
[8:17] way, in that Club World Cup Lecante, it wasn't a lot, but
[8:21] Vinny was second on the team and big chance is created right.
[8:24] So I mean like for for as bad as he played right as below his
[8:27] standard still second on the team and and big chance is
[8:30] created to art. On art, I wanted to touch on
[8:33] this point. We can say Vinny's bad by Vinny
[8:36] sounds Vinny had a bad season, right?
[8:39] Because just a year ago, right now, all of us were shouting
[8:42] Vinny for Balandor and it looked sealed.
[8:45] Do we believe that he was robbed?
[8:47] Yeah, at least as a football fan.
[8:50] When Cristiano Ronaldo so give a freaking interview, Not
[8:54] interview, but speak on a gala where he goes like, well, the
[8:58] Balandor guy was just robbed. You kind of know where World
[9:03] really was. And he wasn't given for whatever
[9:06] XY and Z reason, they know it. But the reality is that you can
[9:12] flip the script within one year. And now we're acting like
[9:16] suddenly this guy has turned bad.
[9:18] That our take is that, oh, my players start to go down.
[9:22] It's just that spiral that hits them.
[9:26] Or maybe there's the other side of mental exhaustion.
[9:32] Physical exhaustion needs a little bit more time, needs a
[9:35] little bit more adjustment. He just got with the new course.
[9:38] You could see the the improvements on the Javi.
[9:42] He was getting the instructions. Yes, execution wasn't always
[9:47] perfect. For some, it takes longer than
[9:50] for the others. For example, like you have a
[9:52] young kid like Gonzalo Garcia who slaughtered in perfectly and
[9:55] he understood the assignment perfectly.
[9:58] Maybe to somebody like Vinnie, who's not used to that at all.
[10:02] And as you said, we used to spam them all to him and now suddenly
[10:07] we're just asking him to do things in completely different
[10:11] manner. It takes longer.
[10:14] Even that point can go even for Mbappe.
[10:16] Last time Mbappe has had the preseason was in 2021.
[10:20] That's four years without a preseason, which means he hasn't
[10:24] been rested for four years. He missing the preseason
[10:29] basically means that he was getting rest during the period,
[10:34] therefore missing training sessions, therefore handbag.
[10:37] But I'm behind physically everybody else, and we can be
[10:42] real. We'll both Vinnie and Boppe,
[10:44] there are signs of both of them not being at peak physical
[10:49] levels for sure. For sure.
[10:51] Yeah, and I think that's fair to bring that up and accurate.
[10:54] And we should bring that up, right.
[10:55] You mentioned Bobby not having a preseason for four years.
[10:57] Remember, Benny played Copa America last summer, right?
[11:00] Like, and then went into the next season and then again into
[11:03] this Club World Cup summer, right?
[11:04] In addition to all his national team duties.
[11:06] These guys are playing with a lot of a lot of matches with
[11:10] very little rest. And he has a lot of pressure on
[11:12] his shoulders when he gets to Brazil, right?
[11:14] To be the guy over there, right? And we all know how playing for
[11:17] your country and that badge is a whole different set of pressure
[11:20] and that these guys aren't robots and it wears on them, all
[11:24] right? And you see that.
[11:25] So they need a break for sure, right?
[11:27] It that is critical. And also you mentioned the
[11:29] importance of a pre season guys, when do you think it is when a
[11:33] new manager comes in that ideas get tested and rehearsed and
[11:38] drilled in the pre season? That's when you get your reps
[11:42] in. But if you don't have a pre
[11:43] season, guess what you're not doing, you're not learning
[11:46] anything new. You're not practicing anything
[11:47] new. You're just trying to get your
[11:48] fitness levels back up so you can get back to playing.
[11:50] And what are you going to do? You're going to go back to what
[11:52] you normally do and what your normal default mode of playing
[11:55] is what you've been doing your whole career, right?
[11:58] And so we're getting Vinny to understand, hey, we're going to
[12:02] still spam you from time to time, but we're not going to
[12:04] spam you all the time. All right?
[12:06] So every time we give you the ball, it's not for you to go
[12:08] take on your it's and you actually saw it in the Club
[12:11] World Cup, the condo or he knew he held up the play, waited and
[12:15] made excellent passes. Even in that PSG debacle game,
[12:19] he had put early on in those first few minutes before the
[12:21] game went to shit. I was like, oh, he he's
[12:23] understanding what Chubby is asking of him and he's doing it
[12:27] right. It's going to take time, right?
[12:28] And in a situation where it's a pressure tournament, we want to
[12:31] win. Of course it's going to look
[12:32] uneven at times because you haven't had enough experience
[12:34] doing it. But the more they drill and
[12:36] rehearse it, the better it will get over time.
[12:39] All right. Exactly.
[12:40] We talked about the positives. Good.
[12:43] Yeah, it's just Vinnie and Vape. It's a weird discourse because
[12:48] normally in a normal circumstances, you would be
[12:51] like, I've been in and bottling, you know?
[12:54] But it's like, who do we remove? And it's like, do we actually
[12:58] need to remove them? It's just can we find a way
[13:01] around them to maybe create a better environment for both of
[13:05] them to flourish on? Both have shown enough
[13:07] versatility throughout their careers to be able to do it and
[13:10] adapt. And no, please don't go into
[13:14] that Luke show, Luis Enrique. Telling him to be like Michael
[13:19] Jordan and play. Defense, we all know what that
[13:23] was like. He's just PSG smear campaign
[13:26] against saying we don't know we're not on the training
[13:29] ground. You're taking like a minute clip
[13:32] with what Shed by the way, conveniently after he leaves
[13:35] them for free. And by the way, PSG missed 9 big
[13:40] chances when they were out while Lucio was teaching him up at
[13:44] Alto Press. They created 9 big chances and
[13:47] failed to score. So if they were that bad of a
[13:52] team maybe just the fortune wasn't that way with Mbappe
[13:56] because 9 big chances is hell a lot to create over 2 legs and
[14:00] not be able to breakthrough the other all of the other team.
[14:03] So it's like, I think Enriquez, PSG was working pretty well with
[14:08] MBOPIA too. You could say that some of the
[14:10] things changed, fluidity, everything.
[14:12] But even Enrique himself said that it took me two years to
[14:16] build this thing to the level where is it now?
[14:19] So things change. I'm not going to put things on
[14:23] certain individuals just because polls them.
[14:26] Things have changed. It's like saying, well,
[14:29] Manchester United went to a Champions League final without
[14:32] Cristiano Ronaldo left. 4 Cristiano, they were better. 4
[14:35] should go down because you know, like he was out when they made
[14:40] the final, but that's not really the case.
[14:42] He was simply a best player. It's just that the circumstances
[14:45] and the team structure was still good enough to be able to
[14:49] withhold it and I think that's the case with them.
[14:52] What we do, we can spin narratives however we want, but
[14:56] he didn't come to a Madrid that was like, oh, perfect.
[15:00] You know, he was just going to pick it up and watch.
[15:02] A lot of things were changing, a lot of injuries.
[15:05] We also had the coach. I know that some people are
[15:07] mentioning this. It's a weird on YouTube
[15:09] comments. It's like I'm the Angelotti
[15:11] hater on Twitter and the guy who defended Angelotti.
[15:14] You're both like on. It don't you know?
[15:20] Just simply ran out of ideas the team tick and that's completely
[15:25] fine. Run his course.
[15:27] Boppe maybe came at a bad time on his first season, delivered
[15:32] the Golden Boot by the way, still, But let's wait.
[15:37] I'll just say when it comes to their qualities and their
[15:40] advantages that they give you on a pitch, let's wait and see for
[15:44] the sample to build with this coach.
[15:47] We have like 8 minutes of sample.
[15:48] Right, exactly. We we, we need more of a sample
[15:50] size to build you mentioned narratives and I think it's
[15:52] important to understand that, right narratives are how we
[15:56] learn how we story tell. They're just they've been here
[15:59] since the beginning of time. But narratives aren't always
[16:02] correct. It's just often easy, right?
[16:04] And correlation and causality are not the same thing.
[16:07] Right? To your point, OK, PSG won the
[16:10] the Champions League, the the treble, the minute and Bobby
[16:12] left. That means he was holding them
[16:14] back. Madrid won the double before he
[16:15] got here and now they didn't win any trophies.
[16:17] That means he's the reason that causes teams not to win, right?
[16:19] Like it's very easy to fall into that.
[16:22] Now that's a good segue into what are the disadvantages of
[16:25] having them both in your team? I will say there are
[16:29] disadvantages to having them both on your team right in, in
[16:33] so in so far as how they like to play in terms of occupying
[16:36] similar spaces, right, making similar kinds of runs, those
[16:40] kinds of those, those types of things. 2 The other area is yes,
[16:46] in that idea of neither of them at this at least this past
[16:51] season for sure seemed very much interested in tracking back once
[16:57] we get out of possession now under Ancelotti, right, That's
[17:00] hopefully gonna change under Jabby.
[17:02] And what that brought me to Lecante was the UEFA Super Cup.
[17:06] If you remember that the first match we played last season
[17:09] against Atlanta, he won that two nil.
[17:12] But you remember at halftime and his video went out and it got
[17:15] picked up by the UEFA cameras where?
[17:17] And this was the first match of the season.
[17:21] Jude Bellingham's they're in the tunnel waiting to come out for
[17:23] the for the second-half. And he says to Vinny and Mbappe,
[17:27] you guys have to finish the runs in attack when we get you the
[17:30] ball, because this running around is going to kill us.
[17:33] I'm paraphrasing, but he was already saying, hey, man, like
[17:36] it's and remember, Jude had a long summer too.
[17:39] He played EUR, got to the Euro final, right, had a week of rest
[17:42] and A and you already saw the issues in that first match where
[17:45] he was like, dudes, I I'm going to kill myself.
[17:48] I got to keep running up and down the field like this and we
[17:50] saw it this season with him and Fede commiserating, right,
[17:53] because they're the ones who often have to run back and put
[17:56] out fires because the other two at the top aren't doing what
[18:00] they need to do. So that part is true.
[18:02] The two of them often times Le Conte and this is particularly
[18:07] where I see it and this is where I think hopefully Chubby can
[18:10] make a difference. We love what they can do
[18:13] individually on the ball, Benin and Bap in terms of splitting
[18:16] defenders because they're they're magicians with and
[18:18] they're brilliant. Now when they do those things,
[18:21] they don't work 10 out of 10 times, right?
[18:23] Sometimes they fail right and they get pickpocketed or
[18:25] whatever. The problem is that when they
[18:28] lose the ball or get pickpocketed, they just stop and
[18:32] rewatch. The other team turns it on and
[18:35] everybody's like, now we're we're all at a numerical
[18:37] disadvantage and we're all in trouble.
[18:39] Not because we're scrambling. That is the issue that I have
[18:42] with them. Yeah, I think that it's a fair
[18:47] enough criticism for both of them, at least for one of them.
[18:51] On this case of Vini with Zeidan, we had a winger that was
[18:54] literally tracking up until our goal line.
[18:57] But with that, let's keep in mind you give up energy.
[19:01] We speak about it a lot. So there is a trade off into
[19:06] doing the high intensity runs, tracking back.
[19:10] I think that it's not a necessarily a thing that you
[19:15] want to go with throughout the whole season.
[19:18] I don't think it's sustainable. I don't think it works when
[19:20] you're playing 60 to potentially 80 games a year.
[19:24] I don't think that's a sustainable way.
[19:27] But Alonzo in this case needs to find a way where he gets these
[19:33] guys going, you know, where he mentally and physically has them
[19:38] to do just enough. So I was speaking to this off
[19:42] camera with a friend and I went like if, if I was this just my
[19:47] thought on this, if I was on a loan of shoes right now, pulls
[19:51] the Club World Cup and especially what Binion and Bapa
[19:54] did on that game. Pulls the two now, right?
[19:57] Like you, you got 0 commitment and I think that it's a
[20:01] combination of mental and physical tone, like we spoke
[20:05] before. So if I was in a longer shoes,
[20:08] they just mean I would probably sit down with both of them and
[20:11] go like, OK, I want to know what's wrong, right?
[20:13] There's not you guys, I want to know what's wrong.
[20:16] OK, here's a load of minutes. You're probably going to get
[20:19] that and mental stress, mental fatigue.
[20:21] OK, We have had the training sessions together.
[20:24] You guys already know the drills a little bit.
[20:28] Take your time. You don't have to be there for
[20:30] the also summer game if needed. You can skip the whole August if
[20:35] needed because I think that this team has enough quality on it to
[20:38] be able to get through the August games without both of
[20:41] them, to be honest. So you can do that just like
[20:44] they're doing the Jude. You can do that, but when you
[20:48] come back, I better see the committed players who are going
[20:55] to run through the instructions. I believe that there is a little
[20:59] bit of a mental block because, well, as you said, Bapen Vini
[21:04] are the ones that are coming from the biggest shift because
[21:07] they're coming from Ancelotti, who didn't really ask them to
[21:11] track back press and him what press in, but he didn't ask them
[21:17] to do any of this. So now they're coming into a
[21:19] more structured team, a team that needs certain banners of
[21:23] the ball against the ball. These guys might have it harder
[21:26] to pick on it. So it's like, OK, if you need
[21:29] some mental rest, if you need some physical rest, take it just
[21:33] like they did with Rodrigo when pulled that Arsenal game where
[21:37] they went like, OK, you're not fine.
[21:39] You know, like you need a little bit of time off, refresh and see
[21:43] how you come back. So maybe you do the same with
[21:46] these two guys and you tell them, OK, let's see what happens
[21:51] from here. And meanwhile, it gives you a
[21:53] chance to see Gonzalo if he continues performing the way he
[21:58] has. It gives you the chance to
[22:00] integrate Hendrick because I'm going to be honest, integrating
[22:03] younger players with a lot less load who haven't really been
[22:07] used to certain things, it's a lot easier than players that are
[22:11] nurtured into certain styles. So player like Hendrick you can
[22:15] test. And ultimately we say that
[22:17] football is a game of low margins.
[22:20] I'm completely fine if they go in August and win the game's by
[22:23] one nil or like to quote Alonzo, like he said, this loss hurts.
[22:29] But do you know what hurts a bit more?
[22:31] This is not going to be the last one.
[22:33] So that kind of maybe you, you do the trade off that with that,
[22:40] there were some reports that came that the club is fully
[22:42] backing Alonzo until the decision taking and the fact
[22:46] that they believe that some egos are hurting the team.
[22:51] We don't know how true that is. Could you be media praying on
[22:54] this Venisus and Boppet? Thing.
[22:57] For the narrative driven, but I do believe that the club is
[23:00] behind him given the signings, given his contract and
[23:03] everything so far has led to believe that they do see Javi as
[23:07] like the coach, they see him as the man.
[23:11] Which I think is important. Yes.
[23:13] So with that guy, if you take a decision like that, it gives him
[23:17] a little bit less pressure at the store too, because he
[23:20] doesn't want to fully integrate them.
[23:22] He can keep them on the training ground, he can talk to them
[23:25] consistently, they can keep on doing that, but their return is
[23:30] maybe done a little bit smoothly and Jabi can be ruthless,
[23:35] orphan, one young player of the year in Bundesliga with him to
[23:41] get kind of fully dropped the next year.
[23:44] Yes, well, I'm aware that the injury was very harsh, but if it
[23:47] wasn't performing up to the standard that he was the season
[23:51] prior when they won the league, so Patrick Schick was taking
[23:54] majority of these minutes. Also you had guys like Nathan
[23:57] Thea, etcetera, etcetera, along with very good at shape
[24:00] shifting. So normally when you're in that
[24:04] position, I either want to maximize these guys.
[24:07] I don't want to go off horse into this season.
[24:09] So that's why I would suggest something like this.
[24:12] Yeah, I, I think that's a, that's a, that's an excellent
[24:14] point. I love that because one, it's
[24:16] prioritizing their health and their and, and their and their
[24:18] physical capabilities, right. So that they're able to do what
[24:22] he is asking of them and getting the young guys to do it right.
[24:25] That means it now becomes more of a team wide culture and
[24:28] ethos, right. When you were talking about
[24:32] teams and the best teams in the world, there is a connectivity
[24:36] and and ethos that they have that's just built into their
[24:40] DNA, right? And when they are successful for
[24:42] long sustained periods of time. And everyone knows I cover the
[24:47] NBA as well. And I the easiest way to see in
[24:50] the NBA is on defense. You look, the team that won the
[24:52] championship this year, the Oklahoma City Thunder, that team
[24:56] was on a string and they were all connected collectively,
[25:00] right? They were all bought in and that
[25:03] is what we are hoping we see from these guys.
[25:06] You mentioned the buy in from those two, right?
[25:09] It's like, yes, we will let you do your awesome take ONS and
[25:13] whatever, but when it doesn't work, you cannot just stop and
[25:16] stand there and watch the ball go behind you.
[25:19] Because what that is saying by your action is I don't care
[25:23] about my teammates, right? You guys figure it out and guess
[25:26] what? You keep doing that.
[25:28] Your teammates are going to get extremely frustrated with you
[25:31] and that's going to cause internal divisions.
[25:33] We already see it. Well, we'll go back to that PSG
[25:36] game where Jude was livid at imbabe after you lost the ball
[25:40] and was like, bro, like again, he's not asking you to do a
[25:44] slide tackle and win the ball back.
[25:46] But provide resistance. Don't just stand there and let
[25:49] them turn it up. And now we're in a numerical
[25:52] disadvantages backpedaling, right?
[25:53] That's the thing. And can we get those guys to do
[25:56] that? I think Chavi's offensive the
[25:58] way he wants to play in possession with the build up, I
[26:01] think that will help save some of their legs because again,
[26:04] we're not gonna do a whole lot of spam, spam, spam.
[26:07] You take on one on five and do 40 yard dribbles.
[26:10] There's gonna be a whole lot of that going on because we're
[26:12] gonna have better build up and better play.
[26:13] So really you should be better rested when we're in possession
[26:16] because you're not having to do too much so you can actually
[26:19] track back. And that BSG game, to me,
[26:24] Lecante was very instructive because I think you saw in the
[26:30] first minute and 1/2 what Chubby wanted to do and you actually
[26:35] saw a success. So Madrid has the ball kick off,
[26:38] they kick it back to Tebow. Tebow goes long ball, right?
[26:41] Madrid possesses it for a bit for for like, you know, 15
[26:44] seconds or so. We get a shot, chew many good a
[26:48] corner. All right, PSG gets the ball
[26:50] back. We went it back from them.
[26:51] OK. They are recycling the ball back
[26:54] because they want to start their build up.
[26:56] This is PSG now, Gonzalo Garcia ress Donaruma.
[27:01] Donaruma passes the ball to his right to Hakimi.
[27:05] Killian pressures Hakimi. I'm like, oh, we're seeing it
[27:08] here. That forces a wayward kind of
[27:11] wonky pass and A and a miss time pass because his outlet wasn't
[27:15] quite ready yet. Jude wins that duel and we had
[27:19] that brilliant flick where Killian back heels a bit and I'm
[27:21] like, this is what we want to see right here.
[27:25] But it's almost Lecante as if because it didn't result in a
[27:28] goal, they were like, well, whatever, now I'm going to stop.
[27:32] And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[27:33] Yes, I know you're disappointed we didn't get the finished
[27:36] product, but this is what we have right here.
[27:38] This is it. And all it was was Killian
[27:41] taking the right angle, right, and taking away time.
[27:43] This is the same thing in any sport.
[27:45] What you want to do with the best players who have the ball
[27:47] in possession is take away time and space.
[27:51] Because when you take away time and space, they're more likely
[27:53] to make errors and that's all you want to do.
[27:55] But when you let them just walk around and do figure eights and
[27:59] waltz the ball up, you're going to get killed because you're the
[28:01] best players in the world. And that's what I want Killian
[28:03] and Vinnie to understand. Just take away time and space.
[28:07] First of all, you 2 are the fastest people, among the
[28:09] fastest people in the world. You can do that.
[28:11] Just take away time and space. That's all.
[28:14] Yes, exactly. And sometimes the most important
[28:16] things don't even show on a stat sheet, right.
[28:18] We can look at the stats and everything, but they actually
[28:21] don't show because like we mentioned on the previous show,
[28:25] the post game that Ronaldo and Benzema worked right for because
[28:30] but they did those as you said, the I like to call them the bare
[28:35] minimums, which is closing out the lanes, not allowing the
[28:40] other team to recycle, make it uncomfortable.
[28:43] That's all what you need to do. I won't put your team mates in
[28:47] bad spots. Now we have this incredible
[28:50] superior physical team. I don't think that there is at
[28:54] the elite level a more physical team than we are.
[28:58] And of course we have a guy like Arda, for example, who gets beat
[29:02] as we saw, but that can be worked around for as long as the
[29:06] other guys are doing their job. But if you're having two guys at
[29:11] the top who are just giving up too quickly doing their duties,
[29:17] you just can't have that. So that's why I went like I want
[29:20] commitment, I'm willing to give you a rest, I trust you, I have
[29:24] a plan for you. I'm assuming they already are
[29:27] aware of what the roles are at least they did show that even on
[29:31] a team that completely was straight shifted where Javi said
[29:34] that I do regret sorting 3 attackers but still you could
[29:39] see that there's a plan behind it.
[29:41] Plan fell, took fast and the sample completely broke.
[29:46] Now there's not a counter argument to that where it's
[29:50] like, what if even after the two nil, they didn't get discouraged
[29:54] and they just kept on doing what they were supposed to do right?
[29:58] That would be a fairpoint because one goal in momentum
[30:02] shifts, you get the second. We were almost at the end of it
[30:06] against Dortmund, 80 comfortable minutes, last 10 minutes just
[30:10] becomes chaotic, momentum shifts.
[30:13] And we saw all of the repercussions of that, which
[30:17] included losing Dean Hoyson for PSG.
[30:19] So momentum shifts. Do I think that they give up a
[30:22] little bit too early? Yes.
[30:24] But I also think that it's a repercussion.
[30:28] It's a suffering of how long this season has been for them
[30:32] and the fact that, sad to say, but going down just kind of
[30:37] became vanilla. And this is something that Javi
[30:40] is going to have to configure with them because losing with
[30:46] that score feet kind of became normal last season.
[30:50] Yes, yeah, this whole season, Barsa, Arsenal, AC Milan like.
[30:54] Yeah, it just it, it was painful at the start.
[30:58] You could see that they were still trying like they did that
[31:02] two nil against Dortmund, losing at all time to 5, two win in the
[31:06] game last season. But that vanished rather quickly
[31:09] because they have to do so much to get there.
[31:12] And now you have a new coach. But it seems that that's still
[31:17] not out of the system, at least with some of the blackouts, even
[31:20] though it kind of looked like like the whole team literally
[31:23] back pattern to that level because it's very known, right?
[31:27] It's a timely season. So I don't want to put the whole
[31:30] result on these two guys, but they are well, the two best
[31:36] players, we would say the two superstars, the two faces,
[31:40] because they are the least guys that have to compensate.
[31:44] So I think it's fair enough to hold them to a certain standard
[31:47] where we go like you should have done more.
[31:49] You probably should have tried to give the team a little bit
[31:52] more energy, especially look, don't get me wrong, but I look
[31:55] at Killian, for example. The coach gave you enough
[31:58] nurture, nurturing time to come back at least a decent shape.
[32:03] You looked at decent shape versus Dortmund.
[32:06] I physically and mentally expect you to be more clocked in than
[32:12] all everybody else. Oh my God, yes.
[32:16] Because this is your can. You're playing against BSG, all
[32:19] the smear campaign against you, all of that.
[32:22] We even spoke on a preview about it.
[32:25] He didn't give us that. He didn't give us that venom.
[32:28] You know, like that hard that he's there to lead the team.
[32:32] We didn't get that from him. He never from Vini and Vini has
[32:36] often more often than not been the guy to go to the even the
[32:39] fans and be like, yo guys cheering us on.
[32:42] Exactly. He knows cheering us 'cause
[32:44] we're trying over here and we need you.
[32:47] So they were getting the cheering in the US.
[32:49] I've never I actually didn't even know that Madrid is that
[32:52] big considering that Oh yeah, dismantling us, right.
[32:58] And the fans, every time Vinnie and Papi were touching the ball,
[33:01] were going like crazy because like, look, to be honest with
[33:06] that stadium look. Like a home game, even.
[33:09] A home game? Yeah.
[33:10] Junior. No.
[33:11] For sure look Madrid, the most popular club in the world by
[33:15] far. They were the number one draw
[33:18] during the Club World Cup. Not even close.
[33:20] They didn't have any readjustments on their ticket
[33:22] sale prices. They held steady.
[33:23] Everybody else's ticket prices dropped.
[33:25] The final ticket price also dropped because Madrid was
[33:28] didn't qualify. So their their their longevity
[33:32] and legacy around the world is is unmatched.
[33:35] I love your point that you mentioned about, you know, what
[33:40] we expect from you from from them, right?
[33:42] Because again, if they are given that time off, let's just say in
[33:44] that hypothetical world, there is no reason like Conte, they
[33:47] come back in September doing what they've done, right?
[33:49] There should be no reason for that.
[33:51] You got to come back hair on fire, ready to like do whatever
[33:55] is necessary. Again, as I said before, I'm not
[33:58] asking them to turn into Dembele, cover Scalia and Duway
[34:02] and be like insane pressing machines.
[34:05] But like we again, we go back to that PSG game on that corner.
[34:08] Both of them go to the corner. Killian does a short pass to me,
[34:12] Vinny passes it to nobody in particular to PSG.
[34:15] They're off and running and the two of them are just standing
[34:17] there. I'm like, what?
[34:19] What are we doing? Like you cannot have that.
[34:22] That is unacceptable. And I think Jabi will, as as you
[34:27] mentioned, the report said the club is backing him 100%.
[34:30] He's the man. He's in charge and I think
[34:33] Gareth Bale also said this as well, that Jabi will not have a
[34:35] problem dropping anyone if they are not fulfilling what he
[34:39] ultimately wants and. Bale was from the end of that,
[34:42] to be honest, because he got off for East Coast, so he kind of
[34:45] like you. You hear it from the man, from
[34:48] the man who kind of understands the club culture from the
[34:52] inside. Yeah, so, and I think that's the
[34:54] biggest thing, right? You mentioned all those lopsided
[34:57] losses we had this season, including the PSG match.
[35:00] That culture of when we go down one or two goals, everybody drop
[35:04] their head and start walking around and not caring.
[35:06] That to me is one of the biggest things Javi has to get out of
[35:11] this team, that mindset. And it's not everybody, but it's
[35:13] a lot of them, right? Fetty and Jude keep running and
[35:15] doing what they do, but the rest of them like we got, they have
[35:18] got to stop that that because that's like a that's like a
[35:20] cancer, right? That just eats away.
[35:22] And when one does it now 2, now three, it, it's just you're not
[35:26] going to win at the elite level. And that's actually, if I'm
[35:29] being honest with Conte, that is that type of attitude and
[35:33] behavior is undeserving of a Madrid badge, right?
[35:36] That is undeserving of a club of this magnitude.
[35:40] Especially given the history right?
[35:42] For example, the number 7 gets shouted for Juanito, right?
[35:47] Because every 10 minutes 7 clocks on Santiago Benovel, he
[35:51] in his name gets shouted. And if nobody else paid
[35:54] attention to it, now you pay attention and you'll feel that.
[35:57] And just to simplify the what Juanito gave, he's the
[36:01] Madridismo spirit, which is the Ramon Tada spirit, which is the
[36:05] IT doesn't matter what result we're at, we can always come
[36:11] back. This was the model of the club
[36:14] with generations. This is not the Ramontadas that
[36:19] we spoke in 2122, for example. The combat that they did, the
[36:23] unbelievable ones, They're not one-of-a-kind with this club.
[36:26] They have done so many of them historically to the point where
[36:31] it's ingrained. While we were realistic when it
[36:36] came to Arsenal, when we went like, yeah, we don't see this
[36:39] happening because the team is just not just not equipped to do
[36:43] it. There are times when you can be
[36:45] realistic and be like, yeah, this is not really at the
[36:49] position where they can do it. We can also stay with our feet
[36:52] to the ground. But in cases like the PSG game,
[36:56] I refuse to believe that 10 minutes into the game, you don't
[36:59] see a way coming back at all. And you mentally just clock off
[37:04] and you start your vacation while while being on the pitch
[37:07] because that's how it felt like. The third goal was like we had
[37:12] nine men on the pitch. And guess what?
[37:14] I agree that we had nine men on the pitch because Vinnie and
[37:17] Bobby were just staying there and just looking at the actions.
[37:20] And it's like PSG is just pushing, Marquino's pushing
[37:23] Beraldo and these guys are circulating the ball and he's
[37:26] just 8 outfield players and a goalkeeper trying to keep track
[37:31] of everything. And the circumstances alone with
[37:34] the formation being shifted, with everything changing, with
[37:37] the injuries, just makes it worse.
[37:40] Isn't that really the time when you want your two best players,
[37:44] your two leaders to be like, OK, maybe I don't have a lot on my
[37:48] gas, but I know that this could potentially be my last game of
[37:52] the season. I'm going on vacation anyways.
[37:55] I might as well deplete it. This is what I want.
[37:58] To proceed, just don't lose your energy, just I want to see some
[38:02] sweat on your shirt. Vinny is the one that surprised
[38:06] me more on that reward because he's often like that energetic
[38:10] guy. I can't understand the clock off
[38:12] to a certain extent, but that nonchalant I'm going to do
[38:17] whatever I want. We spoke about Mendez.
[38:19] Vinny just nonchalantly put getting the ball down, just not
[38:23] even looking whether he has players around.
[38:25] That for me is a clocked off guy.
[38:28] That for me is somebody that goes like, OK, I'm through here.
[38:31] I don't care. I'm the and it's like, no, you
[38:35] have to look at the surroundings.
[38:36] You have to see if you have a player coming.
[38:38] You can't have females frowning at you.
[38:40] He's coming because that's not always going to happen.
[38:44] You got like an excellent ball over the top.
[38:47] If you just didn't take your time, you could have been in a
[38:50] goal scoring opportunity. I would have respected him
[38:53] dribbling past Donoroma and missing the goal a lot more than
[38:57] him just nonchalantly trying to bring the ball down.
[39:00] So that's one of the cases or and Bapa, when he went on that
[39:04] 40 minutes of dribbling, right dribbling was good.
[39:07] But you know what he does first instinct, I'm going to try to
[39:11] take the shot. Doesn't look around, doesn't
[39:13] exactly thing I did all of this work.
[39:15] So now I'm going to take the shot.
[39:16] Even though we are now or a box crashing theme.
[39:20] By all means, literally, Alonzo is talking about the fullbacks
[39:24] crashing the box. He had options.
[39:27] You can look for them because again, mentally clocked off.
[39:33] They're clocked off from the game.
[39:35] They're just going like what can I do?
[39:38] What can I get here? Yeah, yeah.
[39:41] What, what can I do for myself, right?
[39:42] So I look good and so I score, right, as opposed to what is
[39:45] good for us right now. And you've mentioned that point
[39:47] he had there. He had options and Boppy on
[39:49] that, but then he could have laid the ball.
[39:50] Off. And he didn't.
[39:52] Just waiting for the ball. Yeah.
[39:53] And it, and it, that is something that, you know, again,
[39:57] chubby has got his hands full in terms of coaching that out of
[40:01] those two, right? And getting them to understand,
[40:03] hey, you 2 are great and we need you to get to our ultimate
[40:07] goals, but we need you to do within service of the team.
[40:10] That is something that that that Sid said a few shows ago is that
[40:14] when Gonzalo makes his runs and does things, it is always in
[40:17] service of the team, right? I, I, I use the example and it's
[40:20] brilliant because I think it's brilliant when, when?
[40:23] Gregg Popovich, long time coach of the Spurs, said.
[40:26] When Kawhi understood that when I draw up a play, it's for us to
[40:30] score and not for him to score, that's when he became who he is,
[40:34] right? And that that's the idea, right?
[40:36] Is that it's about us, man. Like we it's.
[40:39] Kind of like score right now, right?
[40:40] When you said that I can score 50 every game, but what's
[40:43] happening to my team? Correct.
[40:45] Do you believe that LeBron James can score 50 every game?
[40:47] Yes, of course he can, I believe.
[40:49] But the ultimate goal is to win, and for winning, the whole thing
[40:54] needs to contribute. You can't keep guys cold.
[40:57] That's one of the things that you can't keep guys cold because
[41:01] normally they clock off by nature.
[41:04] This not even they don't want, they just clock off by nature,
[41:08] right? Why we suffered a lot with
[41:09] absolutely lack of the ball, lack of ability to penetrate
[41:14] teams. So the players were getting
[41:16] colder and colder and that's why games were ending on the 70th
[41:19] minute once our momentum has run out.
[41:22] So that needs to go. I'm not saying that Ancelotti
[41:26] has installed the bad mentality to the team.
[41:28] That way I hope I'm not taken out of.
[41:29] Context yet? Definitely.
[41:31] Not just from last season. Those losses just normally
[41:36] became ingrained. Do I think that Ancelotti just
[41:38] went like, oh we lost four nil to Barsa, well done.
[41:43] I'm pretty sure he was pissed on there.
[41:45] He definitely gave them lectures, but they came so
[41:50] often. To be honest, for a big team
[41:52] like us, we're not used to that because we lost the bars of five
[41:56] nil under Mourinho era. And that was after Ronaldo said,
[42:00] oh, they won every game, they're going to play us and then they
[42:02] scored five on us and then you know, the fame and the
[42:06] embarrassment. But did that stop the team?
[42:09] No, they actually won the Copa del Rey final against them that
[42:14] exact season, the first season of Mourinho.
[42:18] I'm not asking Jabi now to become a Marine, right?
[42:20] If he needs to become one with either of the two guys, if
[42:24] they're not responding, then he should.
[42:26] Like Mourinho became with Garcias, right, When he was
[42:30] like, yeah, I don't like him. And to be honest, we might have
[42:34] disagreed with that decision at that time.
[42:36] While I do think that the decision, you know, of removing
[42:39] Mourinho at that time was correct, the decision to get rid
[42:43] of Iker should have been correct too, because we got proven just
[42:46] the next season that yeah, this guy is definitely past his prime
[42:50] and just not that guy anymore. He got he two things can be
[42:55] right at the same time. Mourinho failed onto containing
[42:59] the team, but he was right on that stance.
[43:02] And here Alonzo is kind of facing the same thing because I
[43:06] need commitment. This Dozalo guy, well, guess
[43:09] what? He's giving me everything that I
[43:12] want genuinely. Club World Cup top scorer.
[43:15] So why should I trust to disengage players ahead of an
[43:21] engaged 1 correct and getting uncle, he might be able to
[43:25] solidify a team. That's why I also said time off
[43:28] because let's give a run to all of these guys.
[43:31] Let's see who's good and who's bad, who's worth it, who wants
[43:34] it more. Maybe by that point you just go
[43:37] like, well, I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to drop one or the
[43:41] other because this ain't going to work.
[43:44] And Yep, I'm with the stance that Bop and Vini work by
[43:49] nature. I think they do work.
[43:51] We have seen some good passages of play from both of them last
[43:55] season that especially at the beginning when in Boppe was
[43:58] making the channel runs and Vini was playing the ball and Boppe's
[44:01] finishing was somehow poor, which I do understand, a lot of
[44:05] pressure. He was coming off tired, all of
[44:07] that. He picked it up as the season
[44:10] went on. But at that beginning, Vinnie
[44:12] and Baka didn't look like a problem at all when it came to
[44:14] their combinations on the final third.
[44:16] It was just a team of of role structure.
[44:19] Now you need to keep the structure intact and get these
[44:24] two guys at that sink at bare minimum, where we're playing off
[44:30] one another. We're not getting pissed off.
[44:32] And I also think that it could be more of like, if a Bob isn't
[44:37] running, I'm not running. If Vinnie isn't running, yeah,
[44:40] I'm not running. You know, like.
[44:41] You see that? One or the other and it and then
[44:45] you're getting that product of nonchalance out there on a
[44:47] pitch. And and this is where I think
[44:50] the media reports about egos has some validity to it, right?
[44:54] Because ultimately these guys are human, right?
[44:56] You mentioned it, Vinnie a year ago was almost a surefire
[45:00] Balandor winner, right? And here comes this new guy to
[45:03] the team who makes the most money, who now is taking over.
[45:06] There's going to be some feelings about that.
[45:08] I'm not saying he hates them or anything like that, but he's
[45:11] going to feel some kind of way about that.
[45:13] And if he's watching, well, how come this guy when he loses the
[45:17] ball can walk but I can't, right?
[45:19] I'm the one who brought you 2 Champions Leagues.
[45:22] He hasn't, right? So these are all natural
[45:25] feelings to have. And so again, I do think if it's
[45:29] true that the the board and Florentino were like Chubby,
[45:32] whatever you decide, you're we are backing you 100%.
[45:35] That's what he needs. Because if he has it, he'll say,
[45:37] look, I don't care who's done what Champions League in the
[45:41] past, this, that and the third. We're trying to build something
[45:43] new going forward. And if both of you are not going
[45:46] to commit, guess what? You're not going to play because
[45:50] Gonzalo can. We've already seen it, right?
[45:52] I'll get Franco out here. Like we will do what is
[45:55] necessary. If you don't feel like you want
[45:58] to and if it turns into a scenario where it becomes sort
[46:01] of a stalemate or like a whatever and they're still not
[46:04] changing their ways, it'd be the ultimate backing at the club was
[46:07] like, well, fine, then we'll sell one of you, right.
[46:09] If, if this is ultimately how it's going to be, we will move
[46:11] on because this is Real Madrid, Lecante, we've had the greatest
[46:15] players of all time on this squad.
[46:19] Nobody is bigger than the brand. Not one of you.
[46:22] Not one of you, I mean, Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo is a pure
[46:26] example, right? So I'm going to give people like
[46:29] there are newer fans of Madrid, which I do understand that not
[46:33] everybody has been around certain periods of time.
[46:35] In 2012, there's a Granada game where Cristiano Ronaldo comes
[46:40] out publicly after the game scored the brace.
[46:42] If I don't believe and he goes like, I'm not happy.
[46:46] And the report the next day comes, it's clearly put by the
[46:51] club where they have told Ronaldo, OK, look, you're not
[46:54] happy, fair enough, bring us enough money so we can sign
[46:59] Messi and you're out of the door.
[47:02] This is what they told to prime best.
[47:06] Player in the world. Cristiano Ronaldo, who just came
[47:09] after winning us the league on the most ridiculous teams ever.
[47:14] Literally the most goal scored in history of La Liga over 100
[47:18] points. That is the season that Ronaldo
[47:21] was coming from. When he said I'm not happy and
[47:24] the club told him, well, if you bring me enough money, there's
[47:27] the door, I can bring you another player.
[47:30] Madrid are known to be ruthless. So Eva Lonzo decides and goes to
[47:35] the club and goes like, hey, look, football times have
[47:38] changed, right? These guys just aren't buying
[47:41] into it. I'm not trying to make a PSG out
[47:44] here because I don't think that he's trying to make a PSG where
[47:47] he gets the guys full sprinting. He just wants a decent level of
[47:51] of the ball. Well, against the ball.
[47:53] I don't know why he keeps saying of the ball.
[47:55] It's against the ball movement where they offer something, but
[48:01] they're not doing it well. I don't know how you can make
[48:04] this a success. And I do see the front office
[48:06] being like, well, I agree with it because they can see
[48:09] themselves do that. These guys are just playing too
[48:12] nonchalantly. And Vinnie goes like, I brought
[48:15] you 2 semis leaves. And this guy goes like, I came
[48:17] on the first season I want and I want the Golden Boot.
[48:19] And it's like, OK, what are we doing here?
[48:22] You know, like, if it comes down to having to drop, I genuinely
[48:27] believe that Alonzo will have the say on it.
[48:33] Maybe that's for the better because if these two guys are
[48:37] actually substituting one another instead of playing
[48:40] together, maybe when they're the training around, they go like
[48:44] kind of used to play 90 minutes every game.
[48:46] This ain't fun. Well, classical rolls around and
[48:50] one of them has to sit on a bench because, well, we have to
[48:52] do work off the wall. And they go like, who's this?
[48:55] Not fun? You know, like.
[48:57] You know what? You know what players love more
[48:59] than anything? Lecante playing time.
[49:01] It's like oxygen, like air they need to breathe.
[49:04] That is the way you impact players and their attitudes.
[49:07] Oh, you don't want to do what is necessary?
[49:09] Okay, you're not going to play. Then one of two things will
[49:13] happen. They will either change their
[49:14] ways or they will ask out, right?
[49:17] It's your choices. Be fine with both by the way.
[49:20] Correct. If they want out because they
[49:23] didn't want to work their asses off but hold your door, just
[49:27] bring me X amount of money. Correct.
[49:30] Thank you for your service. Correct.
[49:32] I genuinely believe that because if we have opened the door to
[49:35] play with like Raul, Garcias, Cristiano Ronaldo, I just
[49:38] mentioned in some recent ones or they even let Benzema walk,
[49:42] right? Because Benzema wanted to walk
[49:44] and they just let him walk like that.
[49:45] Serio Ramos. Legends, Legends.
[49:49] Mortgage just the latest, you know, like them letting mortgage
[49:54] go could naturally give them a bit of like, hey, these guys
[50:01] walked this guy out because from the reports, what we know
[50:05] moderates wanted to stay and even like, I'll stay here for
[50:09] peanuts because I want to stay. And they just went like, well,
[50:13] having you around, I'm assuming this what they said, having you
[50:16] around kind of forces the coach to give you.
[50:19] To play you right and we need we need younger guys to play.
[50:22] To go to the other players because we want to develop this
[50:24] team. So this is not about the money,
[50:27] this is about we have other priorities.
[50:30] We want advertism, young team and guess what, there is an
[50:34] abundance of players that would work their asses off to be in
[50:38] Madrid and well, my God. So if one of them wants to ask
[50:42] out for one or another reason and doesn't appreciate the
[50:45] position that they're in, well, there's the door.
[50:49] I'm I'm not a fanboy personally. I've gone through too many of
[50:55] players that I have absolutely loved and seen them walk out for
[51:00] one or another reason. I've stuck with the club.
[51:03] I'm not one of these players. Well, I've supported meaning a
[51:07] lot of things because I believe that he has suffered mentally a
[51:11] lot with racism. I do think that the club didn't
[51:14] back him on a proper way at the beginning when all of this was
[51:18] taking Steam. I think that the club could have
[51:20] stepped in and put an end to it before the media took over and
[51:24] it came to the magnitude that it is right now where he's getting
[51:28] basically racially viewed on every game.
[51:32] Yeah, and literally I played, you're playing on Club World Cup
[51:37] and then shouting Vinnie die. It's like, look, there's a level
[51:41] of mental pressure that comes with it, right?
[51:45] But he needs to stand above it. Like the goal that he's taken
[51:51] with what he's trying to do, he's taken a stance that I'm
[51:55] wholly behind. He's trying to change things for
[51:59] the better, and I do believe he will.
[52:02] But if you want, you have to lead by example.
[52:05] You can be losing your head. You can be showing ego because
[52:09] you're doing exactly what they're accusing you of being.
[52:14] From all the reports, it shows that Venie is a great teammate,
[52:17] right? Like Venie is the guy who texted
[52:19] Jude on Instagram and be like, yo, bro, come to Madrid.
[52:22] You know, it's like, he's that guy.
[52:25] I don't think Venie is the guy who really minds Share in the
[52:29] spotlight. Not at all.
[52:31] Not. At all.
[52:33] I know that him and Neymar didn't go alone, but we don't
[52:36] know the nitty gritty details of it.
[52:38] We don't know if it was an ego and the superstar thing or we
[52:43] just don't align. Our personalities are just too
[52:46] far apart. And that could be the case.
[52:49] There are no proof, at least of any player coming out that have
[52:52] said that the mafia is a bad teammate.
[52:54] Actually, it's quite the opposite.
[52:57] Team players absolutely seem to love him, seem to be behind him
[53:01] at all times. Even PSG players seem to be
[53:04] behind them. So we don't have any sort of
[53:08] real, I'll tell you make up stories about these guys,
[53:13] stories that we we work through. We don't have any, any sort of
[53:17] concrete evidence that these guys are egoing.
[53:22] But you can tell on the pitch that they are a bit
[53:25] disconnected. So you need to connect them.
[53:28] That's what Jaby has to do. That is, that's what he's
[53:30] getting paid the big bucks to do is connect them and figure out
[53:33] how you're going to get this all to work.
[53:35] And if, again, as we said, it is clear that they we don't want to
[53:39] buy in one or more of them, then we have a decision to make,
[53:42] right? Then you're going to leave,
[53:43] right? Bring us the right money and we
[53:45] will get somebody to replace you who will do what is necessary.
[53:47] Before we go, Lakante, I want to ask you something.
[53:51] Do you think that it's tough? I am someone who believes the
[53:58] team can't decide, as when I say team, I mean like the board and
[54:02] the president. They can't decide who the leader
[54:05] of the team is. That has to happen organically
[54:09] inside the training room, on the pitch, whatever that that has to
[54:11] emerge on its own. Do you think that this team
[54:15] currently is devoid of someone to take over and be that leader?
[54:21] I know that Carvajal will wear the captain's armband, but he's
[54:24] going to be a backup player. And when you're a backup player,
[54:27] you just don't hold the same level of sway because you're not
[54:31] on the pitch all the time. You're not the guy out there,
[54:33] right? And I know Madrid has his policy
[54:35] where it's like, they don't like young guys to be leaders, right?
[54:38] But I'm like, to me, Jude seems like the one who was the
[54:41] galvanizing. Like like he's.
[54:44] Only 22, but I'm like they, they want to keep pushing Fete and I
[54:47] love Fete, but Fete's so quiet and he's I I think it's Jude,
[54:52] OK. If we're talking about like
[54:54] leaders, right, like in game leaders, it's definitely Jude or
[54:58] to I mean, because both of us, both of these guys go a lot more
[55:03] personality when it comes to leadership.
[55:05] Again, I'm not saying that Fede doesn't have a personality or
[55:08] so, but he's more toned down. I'm going to do my work.
[55:11] He's like coach's dream player type of player.
[55:14] That's what I mean, right, Where somebody like Chomini or Jude
[55:18] seem to be those guys that are going to question some of the
[55:21] things that can be with the coach, OK, why are we doing
[55:24] this? You know, and with the players
[55:26] like you mentioned with Vinnie and Bobby, guys who have to run,
[55:30] OK, I understand that there can be a bit of a problem because
[55:33] he's younger than those guys, right?
[55:36] So again, an eagle thing, which ego is very normal thing when
[55:40] you are so damn talented, it's a very normal thing.
[55:43] But for the most part, the team needs to come together and just
[55:47] kind of make that group where selected players doesn't have to
[55:53] be the captain because the captain Liberia, Real Madrid
[55:56] hierarchy of the way how captain you selected is just based on
[56:00] how much how how much time you have spent.
[56:02] How old you are and how much time you've been here?
[56:05] How, how how long you have been, But Vinnie is like 4th captain
[56:10] or potentially could be third. So it goes to show how young the
[56:14] team is, but also the time that he's given us put all together.
[56:22] So it's like it's not about who's wearing the Orban.
[56:26] I want the captain without the Orman where they can have that
[56:29] captain Orman because of his service, because of everything.
[56:33] But in terms of like a leader, I want somebody a little bit more
[56:36] vocal. I want somebody that's holding
[56:39] players accountable, telling them to fuck off when they need
[56:42] to fuck off, you know, and telling them well done when they
[56:46] do well, because you seems to be like the biggest cheerleader
[56:50] when they do like good things. But he seems to be like one of
[56:53] these very vocal, telling him, hey, dude, fuck off, go and
[56:59] fucking dudes. He seems to be like.
[57:02] Now, of course, our challenge there, Lecante, is he's going to
[57:04] miss the first three months of the season because he's kind of
[57:07] shoulder surgery. So this is the problem for us.
[57:09] We. Have a coach now.
[57:11] You mentioned it on one of our post games when Alonzo was like
[57:16] shouting weenie, weenie, weenie, weenie, weenie.
[57:18] You know, it's like you have a coach that's from the sidelines
[57:22] being like shouting his lungs out.
[57:25] And when he's taking them back, as long as it doesn't seem like
[57:29] somebody that gives a shit if, if it's 45 minutes like Ascencio
[57:34] was at the end of that 45 minutes, you're playing poorly.
[57:39] He'll just go like, OK, bro, you know what this was?
[57:44] You're sitting here on the bench with me.
[57:46] This guy's going to come in and let's see how things go.
[57:48] Like, look at Rodrigo, for example.
[57:51] I don't fully buy that he was club politics completely.
[57:55] I believe that it's a mix of the politics, but if it was club
[57:59] politics of him not getting minutes right, they wouldn't
[58:02] have played him at all and tried to risk banking his price.
[58:05] I think that it's a little bit of OK, I don't like what this
[58:09] guy's giving me and also he might be sold.
[58:12] So I have other guys to build with.
[58:14] So I don't know what's going on. Like.
[58:16] So that same treatment could easily be given to Bob and
[58:20] Vinnie too, or, or they like top footballers where it's tougher
[58:25] because in your head you're still like, well, you know, just
[58:28] like that one dribble and that one pass and that one shot can
[58:32] get me one a lot. So maybe I take it a little bit
[58:36] up to my chin. Maybe that can be the case.
[58:39] But I wouldn't like that to be the case because you're giving
[58:42] them more and more power over you.
[58:45] Because I want Alonzo just to wrap it up, just to show them
[58:51] that I can do with that. You are just the masterpiece out
[58:57] of this all. I want to visit with you.
[59:01] But if you don't want to build with me and fully ready to leave
[59:07] you on the bench and just have you as a rotational player
[59:10] whenever I want to arrest Gonzalo Garcia, a guy that just
[59:13] came from Castilla, but is giving me exactly what I want.
[59:18] And you know what? Frank Garcia crashed the box.
[59:20] Just like I told him. He listens more.
[59:23] So it's like, OK, if I can make the case for 16 out of the 18
[59:28] players that I was going to initially use, then you guys are
[59:32] just the exception. I'm sorry, I have 18 guys here
[59:35] that are buying into it. I'm more than fine.
[59:39] He just needs to find that balance where of course he's
[59:44] softer towards the approach because you don't want to kill
[59:46] the relationship, kill the Migo. I'm not saying that he has to go
[59:50] and tell them you fuck off, You have to do this.
[59:52] But he needs an approach where they understand that they are
[59:57] the better players, but because they are the better players
[1:00:00] doesn't necessarily mean that they come above anybody else.
[1:00:03] Correct. That's the biggest thing, right?
[1:00:05] Just because you're the best players or whatever doesn't mean
[1:00:08] you can do whatever you want, right?
[1:00:09] There's still, it's a we. When we do well, you
[1:00:13] individually will also do well, but it's not the other way
[1:00:16] around. It's not me first and we, it's
[1:00:18] we first, then you. That's the biggest thing I want
[1:00:21] to get across. It's the perfect place for us to
[1:00:22] end it. Thank you everybody for
[1:00:24] listening and tuning in again, Please remember, like,
[1:00:27] subscribe, comment on YouTube, share it with your friends.
[1:00:29] Do the same thing on Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your
[1:00:32] podcast and we will see you guys next time.
[1:00:34] Take care. Thank you guys.
[1:00:36] Take care. Bye.

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