# 10: THE CAREER GRAVEYARD: Every Job We’ve Ever F*cked Up

An episode of [LATE BLOOMERS](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1788035047), 21 Oct 2026, 44 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audioboom.com/posts/8958452.mp3?modified=1790702948&sid=5146568&source=rss

Are you working a job you love—or staying in one that’s slowly making you miserable? This week, Rich and Rox dig through their entire career histories: first jobs, bad bosses, promotions, burnout, quitting, career pivots, failed dreams and the strange ways neurodivergence shaped what work did and didn’t suit them. Rox talks about going from thriving in fast-paced service jobs to feeling completely out of her depth in a graduate accountancy role, before eventually leaving banking for music; Rich reflects on spending 20 years at Barclays, the managers who shaped him and what finally made him change direction. It’s really about career shame, starting again and the idea that job-hopping, quitting or getting it wrong doesn’t mean you’ve failed—you might just be collecting the pieces that eventually lead you somewhere that fits. Get our book THE CHERRY TREE THEORY http://linktr.ee/cherry.tree.theory Listen to the audiobook https://linktr.ee/CHERRY.TREE.AUDIOBOOK 20% off Loop Earplugs: https://www.loopearplugs.com/adhdlove CHAPTERS 00:00 The Career Graveyard 01:24 Rich’s first job at Sainsbury’s 03:52 Rox starts “Helping Hands” 06:06 Rox’s first proper job 09:27 Rich becomes a manager at 19 13:27 Why ADHD can make interviews easier than the actual job 14:49 “Something was missing in me” 16:06 “You need to go home” 18:59 Rox moves into banking 21:28 Mixing up BUY and SELL on a trading floor 22:32 Loop Earplugs 23:22 Rich’s life at Barclays during the credit crisis 25:22 The bosses you never forget 27:55 Rox starts writing songs 29:21 Leaving the bank for music 30:33 The record label collapses 33:30 Starting again in Amsterdam 34:31 The beginning of ADHD Love 35:13 What old jobs still teach you 37:47 “Every wrong turn was actually a right turn” 38:55 Why messy career paths are completely normal 39:45 Rich’s forgotten childhood dream 42:10 Final thoughts

## Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:17:13
Speaker 1
Are you working a job that you love or working a job that you hate? Do you know when is the right time to quit? Should you stick? Should you leave? Today we are talking about our career histories. Every job that we've had failed at, quit or even been fired from.
00:00:17:15 - 00:00:25:05
Speaker 2
Welcome to late bloomers where we are getting our jobs together eventually. Do you see what I'm doing? I'm like.
00:00:25:06 - 00:00:27:10
Speaker 1
I love how you're doing it up.
00:00:27:11 - 00:00:28:06
Speaker 2
Oh.
00:00:28:08 - 00:00:51:15
Speaker 1
Really good. Really creative. Now, listen, this is the career graveyard, and my goal is that anyone feeling shame about where they're at in their career stops feeling shame and feels fine, because we've had two very different experiences of the old job market, haven't we? My darling.
00:00:51:17 - 00:00:52:12
Speaker 2
Big time. Yeah.
00:00:52:14 - 00:01:03:20
Speaker 1
So shall we start at the beginning with both of our first ever jobs? Like the first time you got paid for something.
00:01:03:22 - 00:01:19:19
Speaker 2
Okay, well, I was going to say I had, like, an unpaid job, which was. I see it because it really helped me in my life, which was like the junior captain of the golf club because I had responsibilities and stuff. Or is that not a that's not really a job, is it?
00:01:19:21 - 00:01:21:12
Speaker 1
You weren't paid at all.
00:01:21:14 - 00:01:22:23
Speaker 2
No, no.
00:01:23:00 - 00:01:23:19
Speaker 1
I don't know.
00:01:24:00 - 00:01:39:23
Speaker 2
I had to like, choose a team to like, give speeches. I had to follow rules. But again, it's decimal spot. Okay, fine. But two jobs then. My first one was when I was 15 and I worked at Sainsbury's on the produce department.
00:01:40:00 - 00:01:41:13
Speaker 1
What did you do?
00:01:41:15 - 00:01:45:04
Speaker 2
I put fruit and vegetables on the shelves.
00:01:45:06 - 00:01:47:11
Speaker 1
I bet you actually love that.
00:01:47:12 - 00:02:09:19
Speaker 2
I love that job more than anything. Really. So cool. It was like my, like, some of my school friends did it as well. We would, like, have fights in the back, like with fruits and vegetables. We'd throw cherry tomatoes at each other. It got a bit serious once and we started throwing avocados at each other.
00:02:09:21 - 00:02:11:00
Speaker 1
Because of the stains it's.
00:02:11:00 - 00:02:14:14
Speaker 2
A bit. Yeah. It's quite quite hard. Yeah. Clock someone in the middle of the head.
00:02:14:15 - 00:02:17:12
Speaker 1
I mean I don't think you're meant to be doing that whilst.
00:02:17:13 - 00:02:19:09
Speaker 2
I know, but I was 15, babe.
00:02:19:12 - 00:02:21:21
Speaker 1
How long were you at Sainsbury's? Far.
00:02:21:23 - 00:02:35:02
Speaker 2
I left. So I was offered a management apprenticeship at Sainsbury's, but I left to go to work for Barclays when I was 16, just before I turn 17.
00:02:35:04 - 00:02:36:23
Speaker 1
And then you.
00:02:37:00 - 00:02:45:06
Speaker 2
Stayed there until. So I joined when I was 60, the September the 10th, 2002.
00:02:45:08 - 00:02:46:16
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:02:46:18 - 00:02:54:14
Speaker 2
So just before I was 17 and then I left when I was 36. When did I leave Barclays?
00:02:54:16 - 00:02:56:01
Speaker 1
I'm not the one to ask for them.
00:02:56:05 - 00:03:00:01
Speaker 2
When did we start? Like, when did dirty laundry come out?
00:03:00:03 - 00:03:02:05
Speaker 1
January 2022.
00:03:02:09 - 00:03:08:04
Speaker 2
So I left in 20. Yeah. So 20 years.
00:03:08:06 - 00:03:14:05
Speaker 1
So this episode is basically about us, and I like careers history.
00:03:14:07 - 00:03:15:18
Speaker 2
It wasn't the same job.
00:03:15:18 - 00:03:26:20
Speaker 1
For 20 years. Okay. So maybe we'll talk about how your job evolved. Yeah okay. And you had seer. So you had seer when you're at Sainsbury's. Know when you're at Barclays.
00:03:26:21 - 00:03:27:08
Speaker 2
Yes.
00:03:27:13 - 00:03:30:17
Speaker 1
At 17.
00:03:30:19 - 00:03:44:16
Speaker 2
Conceived at 17. Born 18. So I was 18 in November. I got married in November. See, it was born in the February. Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:44:18 - 00:03:51:02
Speaker 1
Okay. So my first job, I've kind of got one like you that's like, whether it counts or not.
00:03:51:03 - 00:03:51:21
Speaker 2
Which is what?
00:03:52:00 - 00:03:56:02
Speaker 1
When I started my Helping Hands business.
00:03:56:04 - 00:04:05:12
Speaker 2
I remember. What I just remember it. It's like it's so cute and funny. And so you as well.
00:04:05:14 - 00:04:08:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. But is that a I mean I got paid.
00:04:08:01 - 00:04:09:06
Speaker 2
Well then. Yeah.
00:04:09:08 - 00:04:30:19
Speaker 1
So started helping hands made little fliers on Microsoft Word with like, clip arts. I love helping hands. Made a little logo and I delivered it all around my estate. So not only my road, but like all the other connecting roads. And I was offering like gardening, maybe sitting like car cleaning, like helping pair of hands.
00:04:30:20 - 00:04:31:15
Speaker 2
How old were you.
00:04:31:19 - 00:04:32:17
Speaker 1
At eight.
00:04:32:19 - 00:04:35:19
Speaker 2
You can't babysit eight.
00:04:35:21 - 00:04:36:22
Speaker 1
Animals and stuff.
00:04:36:23 - 00:04:37:09
Speaker 2
Oh, right.
00:04:37:10 - 00:04:51:01
Speaker 1
Pet care. Which is actually, I did get one client which is looking after a rabbit. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, looking back now, it's quite young. Was like, maybe I was ten, I was young.
00:04:51:05 - 00:04:51:17
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:04:51:19 - 00:04:52:17
Speaker 1
I was in junior school.
00:04:52:17 - 00:04:58:01
Speaker 2
You just got the one. The one job, though, didn't you? Right. Yeah.
00:04:58:05 - 00:04:59:19
Speaker 1
Handed out hundred fliers.
00:04:59:23 - 00:05:00:21
Speaker 2
That's sad.
00:05:00:24 - 00:05:08:11
Speaker 1
Yeah, but I think it goes to show persistence. I'm still like that now. I'll still hand out a hundred fliers. Yeah, to get that one.
00:05:08:16 - 00:05:09:05
Speaker 2
You will.
00:05:09:07 - 00:05:11:06
Speaker 1
And so that was my first job.
00:05:11:08 - 00:05:14:02
Speaker 2
What's your, like, proper job, though.
00:05:14:04 - 00:05:17:07
Speaker 1
With the next job after that was babysitting.
00:05:17:09 - 00:05:20:03
Speaker 2
Okay. How were you at babysitting?
00:05:20:07 - 00:05:22:19
Speaker 1
00:05:22:21 - 00:05:27:18
Speaker 1
Think I just remember, like, eating ice cream and watching the telly.
00:05:27:20 - 00:05:29:04
Speaker 2
And they were all.
00:05:29:06 - 00:05:36:01
Speaker 1
Out, like she had sort of go to bed. Yeah. Quite easy. Great job. Really.
00:05:36:03 - 00:05:40:07
Speaker 2
I did a bit of babysitting, actually. Oh, I forgot to mention that I didn't really see that as a job.
00:05:40:08 - 00:05:41:14
Speaker 1
How were you at babysitting?
00:05:41:20 - 00:05:50:00
Speaker 2
Fine. Same. I used to, like, get pay per view movies. I remember watching Gladiator. Oh, no.
00:05:50:00 - 00:05:54:07
Speaker 1
No, my mind went. Some of that would be not appropriate for no babysitting.
00:05:54:13 - 00:05:55:08
Speaker 2
No.
00:05:55:10 - 00:06:06:11
Speaker 1
Okay. But like, my actual first, like, on the payroll job, would have been the fish and chip shop.
00:06:06:13 - 00:06:08:11
Speaker 2
Right. Okay. Talk. Talk to me.
00:06:08:12 - 00:06:10:07
Speaker 1
Place on the green.
00:06:10:09 - 00:06:14:06
Speaker 2
Is that. That's as in spelt PLA. ICE.
00:06:14:11 - 00:06:27:02
Speaker 1
Yeah, it was on the green in size. Big green. It's called plays on the green is run by Mandy. Some of my best friends were there and. Yeah. Used to have like 2 or 3 shifts a week. I think you were getting maybe like 4.50 pounds an hour, which was like loads.
00:06:27:03 - 00:06:28:09
Speaker 2
Did you get free fish and chips?
00:06:28:14 - 00:06:34:08
Speaker 1
Yes, you did every day. So I worked there for quite a while.
00:06:34:10 - 00:06:38:19
Speaker 2
And how were you for, like, showing up on time and getting amazing? Wow.
00:06:38:21 - 00:06:41:12
Speaker 1
I got dropped off by my parents when I was, like, 15.
00:06:41:13 - 00:06:42:03
Speaker 2
Oh, okay.
00:06:42:05 - 00:06:47:20
Speaker 1
So I got dropped off. My parents picked up. I'd bring fish and chips home for the whole family.
00:06:47:22 - 00:06:48:08
Speaker 2
Okay.
00:06:48:12 - 00:06:52:09
Speaker 1
Yeah. Then I had, Iceland.
00:06:52:11 - 00:06:52:17
Speaker 2
Okay.
00:06:52:17 - 00:07:01:05
Speaker 1
Here in Iceland, I worked on the checkouts and I got promoted to, like, freezer. So I was, like, working in the freezer. And when there's hot suits.
00:07:01:07 - 00:07:01:09
Speaker 2
You.
00:07:01:11 - 00:07:04:08
Speaker 1
Yeah. Bringing out the food and,
00:07:04:10 - 00:07:07:01
Speaker 2
What's you in, like a spacesuit like?
00:07:07:03 - 00:07:11:01
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's quite young. That's crazy. And then I work for Tesco.
00:07:11:03 - 00:07:13:16
Speaker 2
Why did you leave Iceland? To go Tesco?
00:07:13:18 - 00:07:19:14
Speaker 1
I can't remember what. So then Tesco. I was in the cafe.
00:07:19:16 - 00:07:20:19
Speaker 2
Are you an adult now?
00:07:20:21 - 00:07:22:03
Speaker 1
No. I'm 16.
00:07:22:04 - 00:07:27:24
Speaker 2
Oh, right. So you had four jobs by the time you were 16. That's quite a lot in it.
00:07:28:01 - 00:07:31:15
Speaker 1
Yes, and had Tesco then? I had the restaurant.
00:07:31:17 - 00:07:32:03
Speaker 2
Right.
00:07:32:05 - 00:07:32:22
Speaker 1
The foresters.
00:07:33:00 - 00:07:35:14
Speaker 2
You're gonna have, like, tell us the ages that you are.
00:07:35:15 - 00:07:37:05
Speaker 1
Oh, probably like 17.
00:07:37:06 - 00:07:38:13
Speaker 2
Okay. Five by 17.
00:07:38:13 - 00:07:43:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. And then I'm on the. I'm like, serving food. It was like a gastropub.
00:07:43:10 - 00:07:45:04
Speaker 2
Oh, that sounds stressful.
00:07:45:06 - 00:07:50:19
Speaker 1
I kind of loved it, though, because, like, if you think about the ADHD brain, like, you work well under pressure.
00:07:50:24 - 00:07:51:11
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:07:51:12 - 00:08:05:09
Speaker 1
And I'll never forget one time I, like, messed up someone's entire order. Voted down wrong, bought out the wrong food. They were celebrating a birthday. I panicked, I was so apologetic they left me a 20 pound tip. Nice. They say we can see that. You really tried. I've never forgotten that.
00:08:05:12 - 00:08:08:18
Speaker 2
What actually happened though? Like when they got the wrong food, did they just eat it?
00:08:08:24 - 00:08:12:20
Speaker 1
They were like, oh, yeah, I think they do. I don't remember that. I just remember the kindness.
00:08:12:22 - 00:08:13:05
Speaker 2
Oh.
00:08:13:11 - 00:08:21:09
Speaker 1
It's that 17. Then I go to the clothes shop. So I'm working at Warehouse clothes shop.
00:08:21:11 - 00:08:28:04
Speaker 2
Why have you had so many different jobs by this point? Just because you didn't get fired? Presumably. Did you just choose.
00:08:28:07 - 00:08:28:22
Speaker 1
A change?
00:08:28:23 - 00:08:39:11
Speaker 2
Right. Okay. And you were mid 30s before you got diagnosed with ADHD.
00:08:39:13 - 00:08:41:03
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:41:05 - 00:08:43:01
Speaker 2
Play clothes shop.
00:08:43:03 - 00:08:56:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. And did that on the weekends working in Debnam. Then I did. When I was 18, I worked in Whiteley in another clove shop, and that's where I met my best friend, Sophie.
00:08:56:02 - 00:08:56:14
Speaker 2
Okay.
00:08:56:17 - 00:09:09:11
Speaker 1
Then I went to uni 18 to 21. So I came back and I worked in the clove shop. But whilst I was at uni I also worked in a pub at uni. So like listen, I've been around and about a bit but I've grafted.
00:09:09:14 - 00:09:16:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. And, and up to this point in your career, you haven't been fired. You haven't done anything wrong. You've turned up on time, you've done a good job.
00:09:17:00 - 00:09:27:02
Speaker 1
I actually was like, I remember being quite a valued member of staff because I tried really hard, I really cared, I wanted to do an amazing job. Okay. Yeah, yeah.
00:09:27:06 - 00:09:47:07
Speaker 2
Nice. So by the time I was 18, I was. So I started as a cashier at 16, and then I was promoted to a personal banker. So the people that sell stuff on the desk, and help people. And then by 19, I was an assistant manager in Farnham.
00:09:47:09 - 00:09:51:04
Speaker 1
Oh, wow. So you had, like, a proper adult job?
00:09:51:06 - 00:09:51:15
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:09:51:16 - 00:09:54:14
Speaker 1
At 19. But I guess you had a baby, so you sort of had to.
00:09:54:15 - 00:10:14:08
Speaker 2
I that's literally it. Like, I couldn't afford really to survive. So I had to go from my cashier wage and earn more money really quickly. So I just was better than everyone else at all. All of the things that I did and then and then I was only an assistant manager for a year, and then I had my own branch by the time I was 20.
00:10:14:10 - 00:10:15:07
Speaker 1
20 years of.
00:10:15:07 - 00:10:17:12
Speaker 2
Age in Tilehurst, near reading.
00:10:17:14 - 00:10:18:08
Speaker 1
Wow.
00:10:18:10 - 00:10:21:24
Speaker 2
Yeah. I was the youngest one in the branch and I was the manager.
00:10:22:01 - 00:10:23:14
Speaker 1
Wow. I love that for you.
00:10:23:16 - 00:10:24:01
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:10:24:02 - 00:10:26:11
Speaker 3
How did everyone else take that?
00:10:26:13 - 00:10:26:24
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah.
00:10:27:00 - 00:10:52:03
Speaker 2
Well, having a young manager. Fine, but absolutely fine. Like, they like the one thing about Barclays at that time, they they employed based on ability. And let's be real, we're talking a lot of years ago now, 20 years ago now, it was very much a sales culture and I was a good salesperson.
00:10:52:06 - 00:10:53:03
Speaker 1
I can see that.
00:10:53:05 - 00:11:02:11
Speaker 2
It's not so much as sales, like the banks sort of ruined it for everyone. So don't really talk about sales is a bit of a swear word in banking now, but.
00:11:02:13 - 00:11:17:03
Speaker 3
And did you feel any imposter syndrome or like, weirdness about being that young? And because you two are at very different stages in your life being the same age? Because I can imagine if you put rocks in that position, you would feel very uncomfortable being in.
00:11:17:03 - 00:11:18:16
Speaker 1
A, I would have risen to the challenge.
00:11:18:17 - 00:11:19:03
Speaker 3
You think.
00:11:19:04 - 00:11:32:04
Speaker 1
Yeah. Big, big time. I love the challenge. Every job I had fish and chip shop I was promoted to fryer Iceland. I went from till to run in the freezer like I'd loved it. Yeah, they're good at it. I loved it.
00:11:32:06 - 00:11:51:00
Speaker 2
My whole thing. I was pretty much in leadership the whole time after that and like, my whole thing I wasn't very good at. Believe it or not, I wasn't very good at, like, the admin side of things. I didn't like it. It was really, really boring. And bear in mind, I didn't know I was autistic and so I was really highly masked for the whole my whole career.
00:11:51:02 - 00:12:09:20
Speaker 2
And my whole thing was just getting all of my team to like, just like love me and do it for me, like for me. So I was like considered a really good manager. I was I was firm, but I was really fun as well. Yeah.
00:12:09:22 - 00:12:11:14
Speaker 1
I love that.
00:12:11:16 - 00:12:12:03
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:12:12:05 - 00:12:15:19
Speaker 1
It's amazing to have been promoted that early. Yeah.
00:12:15:21 - 00:12:20:19
Speaker 2
I mean I ended up hating hating my job, but I didn't back then. It was fun back then.
00:12:20:21 - 00:12:26:01
Speaker 1
Yeah. When you were getting promoted, earning more money, providing for a newborn, like you're going to feel.
00:12:26:03 - 00:12:26:16
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:12:26:19 - 00:12:28:18
Speaker 1
A sense of pride.
00:12:28:20 - 00:12:32:06
Speaker 2
Yeah. All right. What about you then? So we are at.
00:12:32:06 - 00:12:33:06
Speaker 1
The at uni.
00:12:33:08 - 00:12:35:03
Speaker 2
Well, so maybe after uni.
00:12:35:04 - 00:12:54:17
Speaker 1
After uni. So I realized I needed to get a graduate job. Left it all last minute obviously. So then applied to some of the things that were still open. Got an interview at WC training to be an accountant. My graduate program, which was like highly competitive, but I got it because I actually interview very well.
00:12:54:22 - 00:12:55:19
Speaker 2
That doesn't surprise.
00:12:55:19 - 00:12:58:16
Speaker 1
Job terribly, but that interview.
00:12:58:18 - 00:13:06:12
Speaker 2
I wouldn't, I wouldn't have said an accountant is like the job for, you know, knowing you, you.
00:13:06:14 - 00:13:23:19
Speaker 1
Know, but it was like what was expected. You've gone to good uni, you've got a degree, got a good degree, so you get a graduate job. And all my other friends with getting graduate jobs. So I left uni and started training to be an accountant and working at BWC.
00:13:23:21 - 00:13:27:16
Speaker 3
What's the trick to interviewing? Well.
00:13:27:18 - 00:13:45:05
Speaker 1
I think just being good under pressure, being a people person. So I was like had great energy, very smiley. I would have researched the company the night before and just come across really well. I think a lot of ADHD people could relate to that. It would be the actual day to day grind you would struggle with, but interviewing you'd be great at.
00:13:45:05 - 00:13:53:17
Speaker 2
And am I right in saying this is the first? Like this is the first job that maybe you were a bit like, what have I done when you when you were in it?
00:13:53:18 - 00:13:55:14
Speaker 1
Oh yeah.
00:13:55:16 - 00:14:00:24
Speaker 2
And because I would imagine there's loads of ADHD people that by themselves in that situation.
00:14:01:00 - 00:14:23:13
Speaker 1
All my jobs up until that point had been not manual jobs. I don't know what you'd call them, but like working on a shop floor, working a fish and chip shop, working in a public service. Now, that might not sound as glamorous as a graduate program at WC. It was so much better suited for me being on my feet.
00:14:23:17 - 00:14:49:03
Speaker 1
Customer facing like constant stresses. You don't have to self motivate because the motivation is right in front of you have to do it. Whereas BWC, I was having to go to accountancy training and like learn the qualification one day a week and then four days in the office and being put on clients. And I was completely and utterly overwhelmed and out of my depth and really, really struggling.
00:14:49:05 - 00:14:56:11
Speaker 2
And is this the first time then in your career that you started to feel a bit of like, shame, maybe, or like what?
00:14:56:11 - 00:15:15:04
Speaker 1
What? I felt pretty invincible. I'd always been kind of loved at work and I'd done well in the service roles. So this was the first time where I realized something was missing in me that other people had, and I didn't really understand what it was.
00:15:15:06 - 00:15:17:17
Speaker 2
And so. So what did you do? What happened?
00:15:17:20 - 00:15:40:13
Speaker 1
So this was the same time. So I start this in September, but this is when my mum is really ill and she always dreamt of me having like a graduate job. So I was really trying to do it because she was at the end of her life. So I thought it'd be really kind to like show. Look, look, mum, I've, I've made it, but I just didn't.
00:15:40:13 - 00:16:06:01
Speaker 1
I wasn't doing very well. Obviously the stress of that, your mum dying whilst trying to do like it was a little bit too much, but I didn't have anyone really like to talk to you and I do remember. This is so crazy. When would this been? Maybe it was November. Yeah, it must be November because it was only a couple of weeks before she died.
00:16:06:03 - 00:16:22:07
Speaker 1
I was doing some, like test, and this woman who worked at PwC was like asked me how I was doing. And I was, you know, not very well. My, my mum's at the end of life, but I'm here. She just went, you need to go home.
00:16:22:09 - 00:16:23:06
Speaker 2
00:16:23:08 - 00:16:43:08
Speaker 1
I was like oh do I. It was so strange. It was like this mumsy adult figure that I really needed someone to look at me and just go, why the hell are you? The home was only an hour and a half away and I was like, oh, okay. So I took an extended leave. They let me leave straight away because of this woman.
00:16:43:14 - 00:16:44:02
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:16:44:08 - 00:16:48:04
Speaker 1
Crazy. And then I went home and I got a couple of weeks with my mum.
00:16:48:06 - 00:16:50:22
Speaker 3
Have you started doing music at this point?
00:16:50:24 - 00:16:51:19
Speaker 1
No.
00:16:51:21 - 00:16:54:15
Speaker 3
Wow.
00:16:54:17 - 00:16:56:00
Speaker 1
That's so funny.
00:16:56:02 - 00:16:59:16
Speaker 2
So what happened? So. No. Then what the. The job came to an end.
00:16:59:17 - 00:17:17:19
Speaker 1
Like what? They put me on paid leave for three months, and then I think they put me on half pay for another three months, but I was I just crumbled, I was not doing well. And after my mum died, I think I just realized I was too sure. I don't want to do that.
00:17:17:20 - 00:17:18:06
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:17:18:08 - 00:17:42:19
Speaker 1
I really don't want to do that job. So I had a couple of months. She died in December. I had a couple of months at home. I knew I needed to leave home. I accidentally, like, read an email where my dad said it was quite inconvenient having me at home. I need to get out. And so then I applied for.
00:17:42:21 - 00:18:01:06
Speaker 1
Some really weird jobs. I went and worked for Red magazine and the beauty department because I loved skincare, and I did a few weeks there as an intern. Obviously it's not paid. I think I would have loved that job, but I couldn't make it paid and I couldn't afford to keep interning. Then I got a job at Cancer Research.
00:18:01:08 - 00:18:10:09
Speaker 1
Yeah, working on their fundraising team. But again, it was only like a short term position. I really loved it because I felt like I was.
00:18:10:11 - 00:18:11:04
Speaker 2
Making a difference.
00:18:11:05 - 00:18:46:19
Speaker 1
Making a difference, doing something to do with my mum. But then obviously, like money becomes an issue. You're trying to support yourself in London. And that I had a few other like more, more functional friends I guess, or friends that just came from different backgrounds. I was obviously like state school vibes. And at uni I'd met a lot of friends at gone to private school and they just I know they seemed to know how to do life better, and they had all gone in to finance to work for banks.
00:18:46:21 - 00:18:58:22
Speaker 1
So I was like, that just seemed I feel like I can do that and I can earn money. So I got a job as an assistant on a trading floor.
00:18:58:24 - 00:18:59:07
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:18:59:13 - 00:19:23:09
Speaker 1
There stands. Well, I must have been. Yeah. 23. And that was like, really good money. I could pay my rent. I could go out drinking, do whatever I wanted. It was really good money. And I actually, like, fell in love not with being an assistant because as you can imagine, not the best. Yeah. Doing, like, expenses and stuff.
00:19:23:13 - 00:19:28:01
Speaker 1
But I fell in love with the trading floor, which that might sound so weird.
00:19:28:03 - 00:19:29:11
Speaker 2
Hustle and bustle, I would imagine.
00:19:29:14 - 00:19:46:12
Speaker 1
Well, it was like high energy taking phone calls by cell. I don't know, there was something like high octane about that job, and I sort of thought, I wonder if I could become a trader.
00:19:46:14 - 00:19:48:18
Speaker 1
Like so ADHD.
00:19:48:20 - 00:19:51:07
Speaker 3
Like on Wall Street, kind of. Yeah.
00:19:51:09 - 00:19:53:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, so I did.
00:19:53:19 - 00:19:55:19
Speaker 2
Yeah. So you became a trader.
00:19:55:20 - 00:20:18:08
Speaker 1
So I, I was working as an assistant and then it's quite hard to transition from assistant to trader because normally they've done like maths degrees and stuff. But one night I was out with everyone from the bank and I met a guy, and he was the head of the sales trading desk at this Russian investment firm. And I was like, I've always wanted to do it.
00:20:18:10 - 00:20:25:07
Speaker 1
Obviously, no, it's difficult. This is my degree. And he was like, drop me an email. It was just back in the day when like, deals would be done.
00:20:25:08 - 00:20:26:19
Speaker 2
Russian trading firm.
00:20:26:20 - 00:20:50:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. But he was amazing. He was. Maybe I don't need to say this, maybe I do. He wasn't. There was no like other agenda. He was like a really nice guys married. He had kids and he was like, I love the energy. Email me. On Monday, I emailed him and he got me an interview for like a junior sales trader position, which I shouldn't have had as an assistant.
00:20:50:08 - 00:20:52:05
Speaker 1
I went in.
00:20:52:07 - 00:20:53:04
Speaker 2
Interviewed well.
00:20:53:05 - 00:21:06:00
Speaker 1
Interviewed well, got the job, and then trained as an actual sales trader, did my FDA training and got all my qualifications and then became sales trader.
00:21:06:02 - 00:21:08:14
Speaker 2
Did you enjoy it?
00:21:08:16 - 00:21:24:05
Speaker 1
Yes and no. So I love just the high octane pressure, but it also hated sometimes my brain would let me down. So I remember one day, this is awful. Taking an order from a client and I mixed up buy and sell.
00:21:24:07 - 00:21:25:03
Speaker 2
00:21:25:05 - 00:21:28:17
Speaker 3
That's quite a big thing, I think. Yeah, I'm no trader, but.
00:21:28:22 - 00:21:46:03
Speaker 1
It's quite a big thing. But it was like, oh my God. And then the implications of that on the desk and what had to be done. And this was also around the time of the financial crisis. So it was a really difficult time to be in banking. A lot of people losing their jobs, a lot of people moving banks.
00:21:46:04 - 00:21:47:07
Speaker 2
2008.
00:21:47:10 - 00:22:00:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, I was working at Bear Stearns. I left Bear Stearns just before it went completely bust and moved to the, Russian Bank. And then that was when I started writing songs.
00:22:00:16 - 00:22:01:14
Speaker 2
00:22:01:16 - 00:22:17:17
Speaker 3
Before we get onto that, it's funny that at the same age, you were both working in a bank in completely different roles, and at that point, had you started any resentment towards the bank or because, like, you were doing a similar ish.
00:22:17:19 - 00:22:27:08
Speaker 1
At 24? Yeah, I was in a year in a bank. Yeah. What were you doing at 24? That's such an amazing point.
00:22:27:10 - 00:22:32:06
Speaker 2
Before I tell you what I was doing at 24. Yeah. Let's just quickly talk about our sponsors.
00:22:32:08 - 00:23:02:01
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. If you are neurodivergent, you will understand what I mean when I say the world can sometimes just be a little bit too loud. We are so lucky on this podcast to be sponsored by the Amazing Loop Earplugs, which is literally one of our favorite brands that we use pretty much every day. They help you whether you're on a train, going to a concert, going to restaurant, they've got loads of different loop earplugs for kind of blocking out the sound.
00:23:02:03 - 00:23:22:18
Speaker 1
You can still always hear and interact with people as much as you want to. We have got a website with Loop earplugs, where every single one of our late bloomers listeners gets 20% off. You can get that 20% off by using the link in our show notes, or in any of our social media bios.
00:23:22:20 - 00:23:54:20
Speaker 2
Right. We're back at 24. I was I think I was in Windsor, I loved it. I love that city. So we were literally opposite where the bank was. We were opposite Windsor Castle. I was there during the credit crisis. But it was just like I, I made some really good long term friends there. We had changing of the guard, I can't remember.
00:23:54:20 - 00:24:09:04
Speaker 2
I think it was every other day, which was awesome. Right outside the branch. Loved Windsor, loved Eton. I that was the first time, though, that I had a boss that I detest did.
00:24:09:06 - 00:24:12:07
Speaker 3
So how does that work? If you're the manager, who's your boss? Who are you?
00:24:12:13 - 00:24:36:16
Speaker 2
The director. The area director. So I'm responsible for Windsor and and branches. He's responsible for probably 20, 20, 25 points like the. Yeah, the big area director. And it was so high pressure I would be so stressed out. But I coped with that by just going out on the piss all the time.
00:24:36:19 - 00:24:37:18
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:24:37:20 - 00:24:39:00
Speaker 3
Were you doing a similar thing?
00:24:39:01 - 00:24:49:23
Speaker 1
I was doing a similar thing because it was. It was stressful, kind of stressful situation for different reasons. Yeah, but it was a heavy drinking and substance culture.
00:24:49:24 - 00:24:56:10
Speaker 2
Oh, I wasn't substance. No. But we were in Windsor as well, which is an epic night.
00:24:56:12 - 00:24:58:23
Speaker 1
Oh, it's a great night out. Windsor.
00:24:59:01 - 00:24:59:10
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:24:59:11 - 00:25:02:12
Speaker 1
Wow. That's a for a moment, we sort of.
00:25:02:14 - 00:25:05:07
Speaker 2
We're in the same profession. Had the same profession?
00:25:05:10 - 00:25:06:03
Speaker 1
Yeah. We did.
00:25:06:05 - 00:25:06:15
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:25:06:16 - 00:25:08:18
Speaker 3
I wonder if there was any crossover ever.
00:25:08:22 - 00:25:18:07
Speaker 2
No, there wouldn't have been. Although it's the same would be for a bank. Completely different jobs. I was looking after people's money. You were.
00:25:18:09 - 00:25:20:12
Speaker 1
Dealing it, spending it triple.
00:25:20:18 - 00:25:22:21
Speaker 2
Play in blackjack with it.
00:25:22:23 - 00:25:43:24
Speaker 3
And the other the other thing I noticed was that throughout your whole experiences, all the jobs you've had, there's always someone or the family in the pub or the lady, and there's always someone who has left, like a lasting memory on you. So is there anyone that's the same with you, Richard.
00:25:44:01 - 00:25:47:00
Speaker 1
Oh, that makes me. That actually brings tears to my eyes.
00:25:47:00 - 00:25:48:06
Speaker 3
Because it's just like working in a.
00:25:48:06 - 00:25:48:10
Speaker 1
Perfect.
00:25:48:16 - 00:25:54:21
Speaker 3
Tree, what, 24, 25 years ago? Yeah. And you still remember someone giving you a 20 pound tip? Yeah.
00:25:54:23 - 00:25:57:21
Speaker 2
I only in a negative way.
00:25:57:23 - 00:25:59:03
Speaker 3
There's nothing.
00:25:59:05 - 00:26:00:16
Speaker 1
That's our characters, isn't it?
00:26:00:18 - 00:26:03:14
Speaker 3
Yeah. There's no one. When you started as a manager who gave you some good advice.
00:26:03:15 - 00:26:25:18
Speaker 2
There's one guy. There's one guy who I just loved working for us. His name was Lance. He was my first boss. When I was, like, on the desk and stuff. And I got promoted into leadership. And I just loved the way he worked. And I sort of, I would say mimics majority of my career. On how he led us.
00:26:25:18 - 00:26:45:07
Speaker 2
Like, he just he just he was a cool manager that was liked. But also you wouldn't want to you wouldn't mess with him, but you could also have banter and jokes with him like it was. And that's probably where I started. Yeah, but yeah, not nothing nasty. Most of my bosses after that part from Matthew, he was brilliant.
00:26:45:09 - 00:26:47:12
Speaker 2
The rest of them were horrible bullies.
00:26:47:17 - 00:27:02:24
Speaker 3
But do you say that like that is who you've become? What a horrible no no no no no no no no. Like Lance the first right. Yeah. As someone who works for you, that is exactly like you don't want to fuck you over, you want to do a good job, and you know that you can have a good.
00:27:03:01 - 00:27:07:13
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's one person can impact how you work as a manager.
00:27:07:17 - 00:27:09:22
Speaker 1
Who is your role model. And you've become that safe.
00:27:10:00 - 00:27:14:02
Speaker 3
Will you like that before? Like did you get on because you were similar in that way or.
00:27:14:04 - 00:27:25:06
Speaker 2
No, I don't, I don't I was being molded. I was so young I didn't I didn't really have a personality. Yeah. I needed to mimic, mimic those around me to build one.
00:27:25:06 - 00:27:29:19
Speaker 1
Of those. So autistic which parts like copy. Yeah. Well you picked a good one.
00:27:29:24 - 00:27:47:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think so. I think so because I, I agree, I don't think, I don't think many people that work with me would want to get into an argument with me, but I also think they would quite like spending time with me. But both both of those things I agree. Good I think.
00:27:47:10 - 00:27:52:17
Speaker 3
And once you started Music Rocks, did you then go back to the service jobs? Okay.
00:27:52:19 - 00:27:53:20
Speaker 1
So.
00:27:53:22 - 00:27:55:16
Speaker 3
So we're what, 2520.
00:27:55:17 - 00:28:16:02
Speaker 1
425. So I start writing songs in my bedroom, living with a load of other girls, working as traders in the city. And one over here is me and my friend Sarah, and she goes, oh my God, rocks. It's really posh. I didn't have to take this to an open mic night. It's really quite good. Okay. And so I found our local.
00:28:16:02 - 00:28:18:05
Speaker 1
We were living on Harley Street at the time.
00:28:18:07 - 00:28:19:00
Speaker 2
Nice.
00:28:19:02 - 00:28:19:09
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:28:19:12 - 00:28:46:03
Speaker 1
Yeah, a top flat on Harley Street. And I found a local open mic night, which was the Phoenix pub on the corner of Cavendish Square. And I went and did the open mic night, and I remember being so nervous, like so nervous, sunk a couple of pints, got up hunched over my guitar and sung like a couple of songs, but it just,
00:28:46:05 - 00:28:47:13
Speaker 2
Did it go well?
00:28:47:15 - 00:28:50:06
Speaker 1
I mean, that was like five people in the like. It was fine.
00:28:50:10 - 00:28:51:03
Speaker 2
They like it.
00:28:51:09 - 00:28:53:21
Speaker 1
I think. So a couple of people said that I had a nice voice.
00:28:53:22 - 00:28:54:08
Speaker 2
Lovely.
00:28:54:08 - 00:28:56:08
Speaker 3
Do you remember what songs you did?
00:28:56:10 - 00:29:19:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. Keep walking, keep walking. A late song I'd written about my mum, and then I kept writing songs, playing guitar. And then I started doing a few more open mic nights. And then literally after, at my, like, fifth one, someone came up to me. So I'm a manager and got a manager and a record deal after writing five songs.
00:29:19:24 - 00:29:21:05
Speaker 3
That is insane.
00:29:21:06 - 00:29:26:21
Speaker 1
And then I left my job at the bank to pursue music.
00:29:26:23 - 00:29:27:12
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:29:27:16 - 00:29:30:08
Speaker 1
And then I was doing music for a job.
00:29:30:10 - 00:29:33:11
Speaker 2
Straight away. Like that's where how you earn money. You left the bank.
00:29:33:13 - 00:29:43:17
Speaker 1
When I had a record deal. A manager they like funded me to go in and write an album, but I'd only written five. Like, I was so green.
00:29:43:19 - 00:29:44:07
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:29:44:11 - 00:30:05:13
Speaker 1
Writing that first album, and it took me a while. I did a couple of tours. I did the X factor tours with Matt Cadore, supported J. Yeah, had my first band, met my best friend Cat. Yeah. In in. I was probably only doing it a couple of years, but, sold out. My first show at Hoxton Hall sold out.
00:30:05:13 - 00:30:09:22
Speaker 1
My second show at it called.
00:30:09:24 - 00:30:12:18
Speaker 2
And it was very different music. When it was singer songwriter vibe.
00:30:12:19 - 00:30:33:11
Speaker 1
It was, it was. But actually there's a couple of songs that lent a bit Rocky, so it was like folky, but there was moments. There was a song called Oh My God, this is so crazy. There was this song called Blood Rivers, really? And it had and it was quite a bit rockier. Nothing like what I do now.
00:30:33:13 - 00:30:49:10
Speaker 1
But yeah, that was the first album for weddings and a funeral for, But then the label went bankrupt and I lost management over night, basically. So I was left with this finished album, but no way to.
00:30:49:15 - 00:30:50:01
Speaker 2
Release.
00:30:50:02 - 00:31:19:06
Speaker 1
Release it. So I released it myself. I spent a lot of money on it, put myself in debt, spent every penny that I'd had from my mum on it. It completely flopped. And it really hurts. Yeah, because I dedicated years of my life to it and spent all of her money on it and so swore I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever do a music project.
00:31:19:08 - 00:31:20:07
Speaker 4
So what did you do.
00:31:20:07 - 00:31:23:12
Speaker 2
Between the two music projects then?
00:31:23:14 - 00:31:24:07
Speaker 1
What do you mean?
00:31:24:08 - 00:31:30:18
Speaker 2
Like when you said no, never again. And then you obviously started Rory like, oh no. Five years later.
00:31:30:19 - 00:31:31:01
Speaker 1
Ten.
00:31:31:01 - 00:31:32:16
Speaker 2
Years later. Ten years later, no.
00:31:32:17 - 00:31:34:10
Speaker 1
Or maybe seven.
00:31:34:12 - 00:31:35:00
Speaker 2
What job.
00:31:35:04 - 00:31:58:22
Speaker 1
I started? Why? Didn't want to go back to the bank. I had a moment. I went back and worked as an admin assistant for like a few months somewhere. But I, after seeing what music was and knowing how I felt about it, I just couldn't find the love for that anymore. And so then I kind of started, working for my brother.
00:31:58:22 - 00:32:19:24
Speaker 1
My brother was a sort of up and coming DJ, so I was like, oh, I can work at your record label. So I work with him for a few years, ended up taking on a small management role, actually songwriting and dance music. I did a bit of everything. I was very creative person, so I just kind of joined someone else's artistic project, I guess, and I did that for years.
00:32:19:24 - 00:32:47:19
Speaker 1
I really left my own music to join dance music. I'd sing vocals, trance music, vocals to, get money for rent, and obviously like myself, esteem was not good because I really felt like a failure. My drinking substance use got worse and worse. I'm then living alone in London, late 20s and yeah, it wasn't very pretty sight. I then moved to Amsterdam.
00:32:47:21 - 00:33:02:14
Speaker 1
I was I got evicted from London for being late on my rent. You too many times moved to Amsterdam. And that's where, because of all the work I've done selling my vocal to dance music, I got a little publishing deal.
00:33:02:16 - 00:33:03:05
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:33:03:08 - 00:33:29:24
Speaker 1
And then they set me up with some song lighting sessions. So I started to sunlight. And I met a guy called Jonas over in Amsterdam, and we happened to write a couple of hit records. I was only 30, and I worked really hard as a songwriter. And then a couple of those songs became hits. It takes years, the songs to become hits and to be paid money.
00:33:30:01 - 00:33:59:04
Speaker 1
Had three years in Amsterdam. The last year was terrible. That was when I decided I had to take a step back on the hard substances. Moved to London and just go full time songwriter, because I'm too old to be an artist and then to know just the fire started burning again. And I thought maybe I could do Rory and and that idea started to come about.
00:33:59:08 - 00:34:31:08
Speaker 1
And then I met you in 2020, and you were, like, really encouraging of me. You do you remember doing the artwork for my first single, cover in the room in vinyl and taking the picture? It was all DIY and you did the artwork for uncomplicated made our living room into that black and white vinyl floor. So like, I had someone that loved me that was like on my team, I, I don't know, I guess you thought I loved it, I don't know.
00:34:31:10 - 00:34:39:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. And you needed help like, you like just on logistical things really. And obviously we then started ADHD love together.
00:34:39:20 - 00:34:40:17
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:34:40:19 - 00:34:44:00
Speaker 2
A year later, I think, yeah, maybe less than a year later.
00:34:44:02 - 00:35:02:07
Speaker 1
When I joined TikTok as Rory, before we had HD love and I was like, well, I'm going viral on this thing called TikTok. Yeah. So old. And then because of that, I think I was on it. So I was like, let's do this thing. So music really gave us every.
00:35:02:08 - 00:35:07:04
Speaker 2
Well, I was on it as well. I did my 1 in 6, though. I had like 50,000 followers.
00:35:07:05 - 00:35:08:15
Speaker 1
1 in 6. Oh my Lord.
00:35:08:16 - 00:35:11:03
Speaker 3
I didn't even know about that. Yeah.
00:35:11:05 - 00:35:13:07
Speaker 1
Pre influencer influencer era.
00:35:13:09 - 00:35:44:10
Speaker 3
So to to bring it back to jobs let's say how have all of your experiences pre what 3536 is there anything from those jobs that you've done that now impacts ADHD, love or Rory or Dobie like presumably rich for Dobie like the management role you take on with that and for this for all of it. Like you still are the manager of it.
00:35:44:15 - 00:35:46:23
Speaker 3
Yeah. Do you feel like those skills are transferable?
00:35:47:00 - 00:36:24:24
Speaker 2
Definitely. I think because whether it's obviously creating videos is creating videos, but there's loads more to it. Whether it's building an app, starting a podcast, managing the finances, the cash flow, all of that. I do all of that. And, you know, I think my experience in the bank, I think if you wanted to go into a creative industry, having worked in one now for six years, that skill is what's missing from a lot of people in this industry is just I don't know what like management, leadership, sensible financial decisions.
00:36:24:24 - 00:36:27:18
Speaker 2
Like that's what's missing in this.
00:36:27:20 - 00:36:31:01
Speaker 3
Where's the business side of it isn't it. Right. Yeah.
00:36:31:03 - 00:36:46:04
Speaker 1
I don't know. It's like the operational side because business is also risk taking. The idea that it's the operational side that so many creative people just fall flat on. Yeah. And can actually get themselves in pretty tight spot.
00:36:46:06 - 00:36:49:13
Speaker 2
So when we started this episode or sorry, you were going to.
00:36:49:13 - 00:36:59:22
Speaker 1
Say, well, just Max's question of historical jobs. Have they helped? I think like obviously I've made maybe I've made a fool of myself with my 50 jobs. I don't.
00:36:59:22 - 00:37:00:12
Speaker 3
Know, I don't.
00:37:00:12 - 00:37:27:06
Speaker 1
Think so. I've had so many jobs, but like, I guess I, I know how to like, work hard, which sometimes there's someone with ADHD is like questioned or you can have low self-esteem. I know how to work hard and I sometimes see creative people, complaining about their job and how hard it is. I'm just like, bro, go and work in a fish and chip shop or go and be in the freezer at Iceland.
00:37:27:06 - 00:37:46:19
Speaker 1
Like this is this is not hard. Yeah, it's not to say being a music artist is not without stress. There's stress, but it's chosen stress. It's fun stress. And even compared to service industry, let's look at other jobs like teaching or nursing and just I don't know, I feel like incredibly.
00:37:46:21 - 00:37:47:12
Speaker 2
Privileged.
00:37:47:13 - 00:38:11:10
Speaker 1
Privileged and lucky and like every single wrong turn was actually a right turn. And I think for me, like, not even writing those songs until 24 or getting dropped and then completely leaving it at 30 and then coming back at late 30s. Like, it's so important just to say that just because you've job hopped or quit or being fired or changed, it doesn't matter.
00:38:11:12 - 00:38:15:20
Speaker 1
You can still end up exactly where you're meant to be in your dream job, in fact.
00:38:15:22 - 00:38:28:00
Speaker 3
And also, your dream job doesn't have to be a single job like your job. Now you're a creative director. You're a graphic designer for your post on Instagram, you're a video editor like you do the job. That I need.
00:38:28:06 - 00:38:34:16
Speaker 1
Loads of jobs. Yeah, to keep myself stimulated, I guess. What were you going to say? Sorry.
00:38:34:17 - 00:38:39:09
Speaker 2
I was going to say to try and get it to a close when we started this episode.
00:38:39:10 - 00:38:40:16
Speaker 1
Oh, it's a long one.
00:38:40:18 - 00:38:55:00
Speaker 2
Yeah, we started this episode thinking I would we would like to people not to feel shame. Don't know whether we've done that. We've just sort of blurted out what we've done over the last 25 years.
00:38:55:01 - 00:39:06:02
Speaker 1
Yeah, but isn't sharing the different journeys I hope to show people it's okay to not know or to be messy. To stay somewhere 20 years, to have 20 jobs in 20 years.
00:39:06:04 - 00:39:06:16
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:39:06:20 - 00:39:14:04
Speaker 1
Every journey looks different, but it might be picking up very valuable pieces of the puzzle for where you're going to end up.
00:39:14:06 - 00:39:21:07
Speaker 2
It's true. Mine would be as well. It's never too late like I had. I didn't even use social media when we met.
00:39:21:09 - 00:39:35:03
Speaker 1
But I do remember maybe this is a lovely place to to end before any of it. You were a non internet person. You had six Instagram posts and they were very like dad bod era.
00:39:35:05 - 00:39:35:23
Speaker 2
Dad bod.
00:39:35:23 - 00:39:44:17
Speaker 1
Is like, I know what I mean by that dad bod. He had like a dad haircut and like a dad it was just all dad. Really sweet. But you weren't an internet person at all?
00:39:44:19 - 00:39:45:13
Speaker 2
No.
00:39:45:15 - 00:40:07:03
Speaker 1
But you told me at the beginning, because obviously you had you had to go into the bank to provide the seer. There were there wasn't really any time in your life for dreams. You went from your mom's house to becoming a dad, and you said that you did have a dream and you were younger. You know, I know it sounds silly, but I always wanted to be Dermot O'Leary.
00:40:07:05 - 00:40:08:07
Speaker 1
Do you remember saying that?
00:40:08:08 - 00:40:08:22
Speaker 2
Do you remember.
00:40:08:22 - 00:40:30:02
Speaker 1
That, like friendly television presenter? No, I'm not saying you're Dermot O'Leary, but like, you show up on people's screens, little, little ones and certainly wouldn't be paid as much, but you've kind of found a way back to a very old dream, which was, I don't know, being a sort of friendly face on the internet.
00:40:30:03 - 00:40:37:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. That's interesting. I also said to you, I would, I would like to run my own business, but I don't have any ideas.
00:40:37:03 - 00:40:38:11
Speaker 1
Hello?
00:40:38:13 - 00:40:39:11
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:40:39:13 - 00:40:54:01
Speaker 3
I have one more thing. Come on. More question. When and how do you know when it's time to quit and start a new thing? Like where? When did you realize this is the end of my tether? Like I need to get out of this thing.
00:40:54:02 - 00:40:55:19
Speaker 1
You go first because you waited 20.
00:40:55:20 - 00:41:04:08
Speaker 3
And, like, how did how'd you action that like. Cause I'm sure there's so many people listening who are in that position where it's like, I've been here for ten years, for five years, and I'm sick of it. I mean.
00:41:04:12 - 00:41:25:06
Speaker 2
I don't think there's a right answer to it because I think we're completely different. Like, I would never have left the bank unless I there was a really structured plan around what I was going to do next and whether I would be whether it was financially viable. So I took a year out of the bank before actually leaving, and I made sure I had enough money to last me.
00:41:25:06 - 00:41:39:02
Speaker 2
That year we had the book on its way, so like everything was stacked with me that it would work. And it did. But I'm not necessarily that's not necessarily a right thing. Some people just leave and then figure it out later.
00:41:39:08 - 00:41:45:03
Speaker 1
Yeah, that was me. I just like vibe. I'm like, oh, fish and chips. That's fun. Fancy the clothes shop? Fancy the pub?
00:41:45:04 - 00:41:45:15
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:41:45:18 - 00:41:47:05
Speaker 1
And she being a trader, like, I.
00:41:47:05 - 00:41:47:11
Speaker 2
Think.
00:41:47:12 - 00:41:48:07
Speaker 1
The difference.
00:41:48:09 - 00:41:52:21
Speaker 2
Though is that I had not just me to I had kids to finance.
00:41:52:24 - 00:42:06:02
Speaker 1
So that's so different. Different. And I think that's so important. And what you did actually you sacrificed for a young family and that's, incredibly amazing was I didn't have that. I was able to just.
00:42:06:05 - 00:42:10:10
Speaker 2
If you survived, that was okay. Like, do you know what I mean? You could make it. So yeah.
00:42:10:16 - 00:42:42:16
Speaker 1
Just about survive. But yeah, I'd say I'm a big believer in I don't know that like burning desire in you to start or do something awesome. I just believe in doing awesome things with this one life. Maybe that's a slightly entrepreneurial spirit, and I've always had that. If you go back to helping Hands, and if you've got that in your soul to do anything within your power to bring it to life and to know that it might change, it might grow, it might fail, but you'll learn, you'll be okay.
00:42:42:18 - 00:42:51:22
Speaker 1
And there's so much that can be learned from just doing it and taking brave steps. And yeah, taking risks if you can. Calculated risk.
00:42:51:24 - 00:42:52:24
Speaker 2
Let's end it there I think.
00:42:53:00 - 00:42:56:05
Speaker 1
Wow, I feel like I know loads more about you.
00:42:56:07 - 00:42:57:21
Speaker 2
You knew everything. No, no.
00:42:57:21 - 00:42:59:01
Speaker 1
Not everything.
00:42:59:03 - 00:42:59:24
Speaker 2
What didn't you know?
00:43:00:01 - 00:43:01:16
Speaker 1
I didn't know about Lance.
00:43:01:18 - 00:43:02:03
Speaker 2
Oh, right.
00:43:02:07 - 00:43:12:16
Speaker 1
Like that is just. Yeah. Really cute. I didn't know the age you were from, like Sainsbury's to the bank and where she was, I. I just loved hearing it.
00:43:12:18 - 00:43:26:10
Speaker 2
Okay, well, if you've liked today, if it's given you some hope or certainly hopefully made you feel less shame, give us a like subscribe follow door of the things they really help. But other than that, we will see you next.
00:43:26:10 - 00:59:45:06
Speaker 1
Week unless I decide to go and start trading again, don't worry I.
00:59:45:08 - 00:59:47:08
Speaker 5
Love you baby.
00:59:47:10 - 00:59:52:07
Speaker 3
He's not a racist, don't worry.
00:59:52:09 - 01:00:10:07
Speaker 3
Not yet.
01:00:10:09 - 01:00:13:24
Speaker 6
I am.
01:00:14:01 - 01:00:31:17
Speaker 1
Are you working a job that you love or working a job that you hate? Do you know when is the right time to quit? Should you stick? Should you leave? Today we are talking about our career histories. Every job that we've had failed at, quit or even been fired from.
01:00:31:19 - 01:00:39:09
Speaker 2
Welcome to late bloomers where we are getting our jobs together eventually. Do you see what I'm doing? I'm like.
01:00:39:10 - 01:00:41:14
Speaker 1
I love how you're sweating it up.
01:00:41:20 - 01:00:42:09
Speaker 2
Oh.
01:00:42:11 - 01:01:05:18
Speaker 1
Really good. Really creative. Now, listen, this is the career graveyard. And my goal is that anyone feeling shame about where they're at in their career. Stop shooting Shane until it's fine. Because we've had two very different experiences of the old job market. Haven't been my darling.
01:01:05:20 - 01:01:06:09
Speaker 2
Big time.
01:01:06:09 - 01:01:17:24
Speaker 1
Yeah. So shall we start at the beginning with both of our first ever jobs? Like the first time you got paid for something.
01:01:18:01 - 01:01:33:23
Speaker 2
Okay, well, I was going to say I had, like, an unpaid job, which was. I see it because it really helped me in my life, which was like the junior captain of the golf club because I had responsibilities and stuff. What does that not? That's not really a job, is it?
01:01:34:00 - 01:01:35:18
Speaker 1
You weren't page at all.
01:01:35:19 - 01:01:54:02
Speaker 2
No no, no. But to like, choose a team and to like, give speeches. I had to follow rules. But again, it's not the case. Mine. I've had two jobs then. My first one was when I was 15 and I worked at Sainsbury's on the produce department.
01:01:54:04 - 01:01:55:17
Speaker 1
What did you do?
01:01:55:19 - 01:01:59:08
Speaker 2
I put fruit and vegetables on the shelves.
01:01:59:10 - 01:02:01:16
Speaker 1
I bet you actually love that.
01:02:01:17 - 01:02:24:00
Speaker 2
I love that job more than anything. It's so cool. It was like my like, some of my school friends did it as well. We would, like, have fights in the back, like with fruits and vegetables. We'd throw cherry tomatoes at each other. It got a bit serious once we started throwing avocados at each other.
01:02:24:02 - 01:02:25:00
Speaker 1
Is it the stains?
01:02:25:00 - 01:02:28:19
Speaker 2
It's a bit. Yes. They were quite hard. Yeah. Clock someone in the middle of their head.
01:02:28:20 - 01:02:31:16
Speaker 1
And I don't think you're meant to be doing that whilst.
01:02:31:17 - 01:02:33:12
Speaker 2
I know. But I was 15 babe.
01:02:33:16 - 01:02:36:00
Speaker 1
How long were you at Sainsbury's?
01:02:36:02 - 01:02:49:07
Speaker 2
I left, so I was offered a management apprenticeship at Sainsbury's, but I left to go to work for Barclays when I was 16, just before I turned 17.
01:02:49:09 - 01:02:51:00
Speaker 1
And then you.
01:02:51:02 - 01:02:59:09
Speaker 2
Stayed there until. So I joined when I was six, the September the 10th, 2002.
01:02:59:11 - 01:03:00:13
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:03:00:15 - 01:03:08:18
Speaker 2
And so just before 17. And then I left when I was 36. When did I leave Barclays?
01:03:08:20 - 01:03:10:09
Speaker 5
I'm not going to ask for the money.
01:03:10:10 - 01:03:14:06
Speaker 2
When did we start? Like, when did dirty laundry come out?
01:03:14:08 - 01:03:16:09
Speaker 5
January 2022.
01:03:16:14 - 01:03:22:11
Speaker 2
So I left in 20. Yeah. So 20 years.
01:03:22:13 - 01:03:28:10
Speaker 1
So this episode is basically about us, and I like careers history.
01:03:28:12 - 01:03:31:02
Speaker 2
It wasn't the same job.
01:03:31:04 - 01:03:41:00
Speaker 1
So maybe we'll talk about how your job evolved. Yeah. And you had seer. So you had seer when you're at Sainsbury's. Know when you're at Barclays.
01:03:41:01 - 01:03:41:12
Speaker 2
Yes.
01:03:41:17 - 01:03:44:21
Speaker 1
At 17.
01:03:44:23 - 01:03:57:03
Speaker 2
Conceived at 17. Born at 18. So I was 18 and November. I got married in November 7th. Born in February?
01:03:57:05 - 01:03:58:20
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:03:58:22 - 01:04:05:07
Speaker 1
Okay. So my first job, I've kind of got one like you that's like, whether it counts or not.
01:04:05:08 - 01:04:05:17
Speaker 2
Which is?
01:04:05:17 - 01:04:10:06
Speaker 1
Well, when I started my Helping Hands business.
01:04:10:08 - 01:04:20:07
Speaker 2
I remember. What I just remember. It's like, it's so cute and funny and so you as well. Yeah.
01:04:20:13 - 01:04:22:05
Speaker 1
But is that a I mean, I got paid.
01:04:22:06 - 01:04:23:11
Speaker 2
Well then.
01:04:23:13 - 01:04:46:20
Speaker 1
So started helping hands make little fliers on, like, a soft word with like, clip arts. Helping hands made a little logo and I delivered it all round my estate. So not only my road, but like all the other connecting roads. And I was offering like gardening, maybe sitting like car cleaning, like a helping pair of hands. Being at eight.
01:04:46:22 - 01:04:48:00
Speaker 2
You can't babysit.
01:04:48:03 - 01:04:51:02
Speaker 1
Eight animals and stuff.
01:04:51:03 - 01:04:51:14
Speaker 2
Oh, right.
01:04:51:15 - 01:05:05:05
Speaker 1
Petcare, which is actually I did get one client which is looking after a rabbit. Yeah. Yeah. So, like looking back now, it's quite young cos I ate name, I was ten, I was young.
01:05:05:10 - 01:05:05:21
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:05:05:23 - 01:05:06:21
Speaker 1
I was in junior school.
01:05:06:22 - 01:05:12:05
Speaker 2
You just got the one. The one job though did that right. Yeah.
01:05:12:09 - 01:05:14:00
Speaker 1
Handed a hundred slides.
01:05:14:05 - 01:05:15:01
Speaker 2
That's sad.
01:05:15:05 - 01:05:25:10
Speaker 1
Yeah, but I think it goes to show persistence. I'm still like that now. I'll still hand out a hundred fliers. Yeah. To get that one. You will. And so that was my first job.
01:05:25:12 - 01:05:28:06
Speaker 2
What's your like proper job there.
01:05:28:08 - 01:05:31:12
Speaker 1
With the next job after that? With babysitting.
01:05:31:14 - 01:05:34:07
Speaker 2
Okay. How were you at babysitting?
01:05:34:11 - 01:05:36:23
Speaker 1
01:05:37:00 - 01:05:50:05
Speaker 1
I think I just remember, like, eating ice cream and watching the telly. I go, like, go to bed. Yeah, it's quite easy. A great job, really.
01:05:50:07 - 01:05:54:10
Speaker 2
I did a bit of babysitting, actually. Oh, I forgot to mention that. I didn't really see that as a job.
01:05:54:11 - 01:05:55:22
Speaker 1
How were you at babysitting?
01:05:55:24 - 01:06:04:07
Speaker 2
Fine. Same. I used to, like, get paid for a few movies. I remember watching Gladiator. Oh, no. No.
01:06:04:09 - 01:06:20:15
Speaker 1
My mind went some. That would be not appropriate for no baby sitting. Okay, but like, my actual first, like, on the payroll job, would have been the fish and chip shop.
01:06:20:17 - 01:06:22:15
Speaker 2
Right. Okay. Talk. Talk to me.
01:06:22:17 - 01:06:24:12
Speaker 1
Place on the green.
01:06:24:14 - 01:06:28:07
Speaker 2
Is that that, as in spelt PLA? I see.
01:06:28:08 - 01:06:41:07
Speaker 1
E yeah, it was on the green. In seismic green. It's called place on the green. It's run by Mandy. Some of my best friends were out there, and jet used to have like 2 or 3 shifts a week. I think you were getting maybe like 4.50 pounds an hour, which was like loads.
01:06:41:08 - 01:06:42:14
Speaker 2
Did you get free fish and chips?
01:06:42:18 - 01:06:48:12
Speaker 1
Yes, you did every day. So I worked there for quite a while.
01:06:48:14 - 01:06:52:23
Speaker 2
And how were you feel like showing up on time and getting amazing. Wow.
01:06:53:00 - 01:06:55:16
Speaker 1
I dropped off there by my parents as well as at 15.
01:06:55:17 - 01:06:56:07
Speaker 2
Oh, okay.
01:06:56:09 - 01:07:02:00
Speaker 1
So. But dropped off. My parents picked up. I'd bring fish and chips home for the whole family.
01:07:02:02 - 01:07:02:14
Speaker 2
Okay.
01:07:02:17 - 01:07:06:13
Speaker 1
Yeah. Then I had, Iceland.
01:07:06:15 - 01:07:07:10
Speaker 2
Okay, yeah.
01:07:07:12 - 01:07:14:24
Speaker 1
In Iceland, I worked on the checkouts and I got promoted to, like, freezer. So I was, like, working in the freezer room with those hot suits.
01:07:15:01 - 01:07:15:13
Speaker 2
Wow.
01:07:15:16 - 01:07:18:10
Speaker 1
Yeah. Bringing out the food and,
01:07:18:12 - 01:07:20:05
Speaker 2
What's you in, like, a space?
01:07:20:07 - 01:07:25:05
Speaker 1
It's a space. Yeah, it's quite young. That's crazy. And then I worked for Tesco.
01:07:25:07 - 01:07:27:21
Speaker 2
Why did you leave Iceland? To go Tesco?
01:07:27:23 - 01:07:29:01
Speaker 1
I can't remember.
01:07:29:03 - 01:07:29:18
Speaker 2
Right.
01:07:29:20 - 01:07:33:16
Speaker 1
And so then Tesco. I was in the cafe.
01:07:33:18 - 01:07:34:23
Speaker 2
But you and adult now.
01:07:35:00 - 01:07:36:06
Speaker 1
Know 16.
01:07:36:09 - 01:07:42:02
Speaker 2
Oh eight. So you had four jobs by the time you were 16? That's quite a lot in it, babe.
01:07:42:04 - 01:07:45:19
Speaker 1
Yes, and I had Tesco then. I had the restaurant.
01:07:45:21 - 01:07:46:07
Speaker 2
Right.
01:07:46:08 - 01:07:47:02
Speaker 1
The forest is.
01:07:47:04 - 01:07:49:18
Speaker 2
I'm gonna have, like, tell us that ages that you are.
01:07:49:19 - 01:07:51:09
Speaker 1
Oh, probably like 17.
01:07:51:10 - 01:07:52:15
Speaker 2
Okay. 5.7.
01:07:52:16 - 01:07:57:11
Speaker 1
Yeah. And then I'm on the. I'm like, serving food. It was like a gastropub.
01:07:57:14 - 01:07:59:09
Speaker 2
Well, that sounds stressful.
01:07:59:11 - 01:08:17:19
Speaker 1
I kind of loved it, though, because, like, if you think about the aged brain, like, you work well under pressure. Yeah. And I'll never forget. Remember, one time I messed up someone's entire order, voted down the wrong, bought out the wrong thing. They were celebrating birthday. I panicked. I was so apologetic. They left me 20 pounds. It. They said we can see that.
01:08:17:19 - 01:08:19:14
Speaker 1
You really tried it. Never forgotten that.
01:08:19:17 - 01:08:23:00
Speaker 2
What actually happened though. Like when they got the wrong food, did they steal it?
01:08:23:02 - 01:08:35:14
Speaker 1
They were like, oh, yeah, I think. I don't remember that. I just remember the kindness. Oh, it's that 17. Then I go to the clothes shop. So I'm working at Warehouse Clothes shop.
01:08:35:16 - 01:08:53:15
Speaker 2
Why have you had so many different jobs by this point? Just so cute. Because you didn't get fired. Did you just choose to change? Right. Okay. And you were before you got diagnosed with ADHD?
01:08:53:17 - 01:08:55:10
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
01:08:55:12 - 01:08:57:14
Speaker 2
I, I.
01:08:57:16 - 01:09:18:23
Speaker 1
Did that on the weekends working in dividends. And then I did the when I was 18 I worked in Whiteley in another Cove shop and that's where I met my best friend Sophie. Okay. Then I went to uni 18 to 21. So I came back and I worked in the clothes shop. But whilst I was at uni I also worked in a pub at uni.
01:09:19:00 - 01:09:23:15
Speaker 1
So I was like, listen, I've been around and about a bit but I've drafted.
01:09:23:18 - 01:09:31:03
Speaker 2
Yeah. And and up to this point in your career, you haven't been fired, you haven't done anything wrong. You've turned up on time, you've done a good job.
01:09:31:04 - 01:09:39:17
Speaker 1
I actually was like, I remember being quite a valued member of staff because I tried really hard, I really cared, I wanted to do an amazing job.
01:09:39:18 - 01:09:40:05
Speaker 2
Okay.
01:09:40:06 - 01:09:41:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
01:09:41:10 - 01:10:01:09
Speaker 2
Nice. So by the time I was 18, I was. So I started as a cashier at 16, and then I was promoted to a personal banker. So the people that sell stuff on the desk, and help people. And then by 19, I was an assistant manager in France.
01:10:01:13 - 01:10:08:15
Speaker 1
Oh, wow. So you had, like, a proper adult job? Yeah, 90. I guess you had a baby, so you sort of had.
01:10:08:15 - 01:10:28:13
Speaker 2
To I that's literally it. Like I couldn't afford really, despite. So I had to go from my cashier wage and had more money really quickly. So I just was better than everyone else at all. All of the things that I did and then and then I was only an assistant manager for a year, and then I had my own branch by the time I was 20.
01:10:28:15 - 01:10:29:09
Speaker 1
20 years.
01:10:29:09 - 01:10:35:23
Speaker 2
Now in Thailand, near reading. Wow. Yeah. I was the youngest one in the branch when I was the manager.
01:10:36:04 - 01:10:37:18
Speaker 1
Wow. I love that fear.
01:10:37:21 - 01:10:38:06
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:10:38:08 - 01:10:39:07
Speaker 3
How did everyone else.
01:10:39:07 - 01:11:06:07
Speaker 2
Take that? Oh, yeah. Having a young manager. Fine, but absolutely fine. Like, they like the one thing about Barclays at that time, they they employed based on ability. Unless we will. We're talking about a lot of years ago now, 20 years ago now, it was very much a sales culture and I was a good salesperson.
01:11:06:10 - 01:11:07:00
Speaker 1
I can see.
01:11:07:00 - 01:11:16:16
Speaker 2
That it's not so much as sales, like the banks sort of ruined it for everyone. So don't really talk about sales as a bit of spare weight in a banking now, but.
01:11:16:18 - 01:11:19:01
Speaker 3
And did you feel any of the positive syndrome or like.
01:11:19:02 - 01:11:19:22
Speaker 2
Weirdness about.
01:11:19:22 - 01:11:31:12
Speaker 3
Being that young in a job because you two are at very different stages in your life being the same age? Because I can imagine if you feel rocked in that position, you would feel very uncomfortable being.
01:11:31:14 - 01:11:46:08
Speaker 1
I would have risen to the challenge do you think? Yeah. Big time. I love the challenge. Every job I had fish and chip shop. I was promoted to fryer, Iceland. I went from till to run in the freezer like I loved it. Oh, yeah, they're good at it, I loved it.
01:11:46:10 - 01:12:05:03
Speaker 2
My whole thing. I was pretty much in leadership the whole time after that. And like, my whole thing I wasn't very good at. Believe it or not, I wasn't very good at, like, the admin side of things. I didn't like it. It was really, really boring. And bear in mind, I didn't know I was autistic and so I was really highly masked for the whole my whole career.
01:12:05:05 - 01:12:25:18
Speaker 2
And my whole thing was just getting all of my team to like, just like love me and do it for me, but for me. So I was like considered a really good manager. I was I was firm, but I was really fun as well. Oh yeah.
01:12:25:20 - 01:12:26:07
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:12:26:09 - 01:12:29:22
Speaker 1
It's amazing to have been promoted that early. Yeah.
01:12:29:24 - 01:12:34:23
Speaker 2
I mean, I ended up hated painting my job, but I didn't back then. It was fun back then.
01:12:34:24 - 01:12:42:21
Speaker 1
Yeah. When you were getting promoted, earning more money, providing for a newborn, like you're going to feel. Yeah. A sense of pride, maybe.
01:12:42:24 - 01:12:49:07
Speaker 2
Yeah. Oh, right. What about you then? So we are at the New York, so maybe after uni.
01:12:49:08 - 01:13:08:21
Speaker 1
After uni. Say, I realized I needed to get a graduate job. Left it all last minute, obviously. So then applied to some of the things that were still open. Got an interview at WC training to be an accountant and a graduate program, which was like highly competitive, but I got it because I actually interview very well.
01:13:09:01 - 01:13:09:23
Speaker 2
That doesn't surprise.
01:13:10:02 - 01:13:12:20
Speaker 1
Me terribly, but the interview.
01:13:12:21 - 01:13:20:17
Speaker 2
I wouldn't, I wouldn't have said an accountant is like the job for, you know, knowing you, you.
01:13:20:19 - 01:13:37:23
Speaker 1
Know, but it was like what was expected. You've gone to good uni, you've got a degree, quite a good degree. So you get a graduate from all my other friends with getting graduate jobs. So I left uni and started training to be an accountant and working at PWP.
01:13:38:00 - 01:13:41:17
Speaker 3
What's the trick to interviewing? Well.
01:13:41:19 - 01:13:59:08
Speaker 1
I think just being good under pressure be a people person. So I was like had great energy, very smiley. I would have researched the company the night before and just come across really well. I think a lot of ADHD people could relate to that. It would be the actual day to day grind. You would struggle with the interviewer, you'd be greater.
01:13:59:09 - 01:14:07:21
Speaker 2
And am I right in saying this is the first? Like, this is the first job that maybe you were a bit like, what have I done when you when you were in it?
01:14:07:22 - 01:14:09:18
Speaker 1
Oh yeah.
01:14:09:20 - 01:14:15:03
Speaker 2
And because I would imagine there's loads of HD people that find themselves in that situation.
01:14:15:04 - 01:14:37:16
Speaker 1
All my jobs up until that point had been have not manual jobs. I don't know what you'd call them, but like working on a shop floor, working a fish and chip shop, or working in the public service. Now, that might not sound as glamorous as a graduate program at WC. It was so much better suited for me being on my feet.
01:14:37:20 - 01:15:03:07
Speaker 1
Customer facing that constant stresses. You don't have to self motivate because your motivation is right in front of you. You have to do it. Whereas PwC, I was having to go to accountancy training and like learn the qualification one day a week and then four days in the office and being put on clients, and I was completely and utterly overwhelmed and out of my depth and really, really struggling.
01:15:03:09 - 01:15:10:14
Speaker 2
And is this the first time then in your career that you started to feel a bit of like, shame maybe, or like what?
01:15:10:15 - 01:15:29:07
Speaker 1
Yeah, I felt pretty invincible. I'd always been kind of loved at work and I've done well in the service roles. So this was the first time where I realized something was missing in me that other people had, and I didn't really understand what it was.
01:15:29:09 - 01:15:31:21
Speaker 2
And so I said, what did you do? What happened?
01:15:32:01 - 01:15:51:11
Speaker 1
So this was the same time. So I start this in September, that this is when my mum is really ill, and she always dreamt of me having like a graduate job. So I, I was really trying to do it because she was at the end of her life. So I thought it'd be really kind to like show, look, look, my life.
01:15:51:11 - 01:16:20:04
Speaker 1
I've made it, but I just didn't. I wasn't doing very well. Obviously, the stress of that, your mum dying whilst trying to do like it was a little bit too much, but I didn't have anyone really like to talk to and I do remember. This is so crazy. When would this be? Maybe it's November. Yeah, it must be November because it was only a couple of weeks before she died.
01:16:20:06 - 01:16:36:11
Speaker 1
I was doing some, like test, and this woman who worked at WC was like asked me how I was doing. I was, you know, not very well. My, my mum was at the end of life, but I'm here. She just went, you need to go home.
01:16:36:13 - 01:16:37:09
Speaker 6
01:16:37:11 - 01:16:57:17
Speaker 1
I said oh do I. It was so strange. It was like this Monsey adult figure that I really needed someone to look at me and just go, why the hell are you. And I was only an hour and a half away and I was like, okay. So I took an extended leave and let me leave straight away because of this woman.
01:16:57:19 - 01:16:58:24
Speaker 6
Yeah, crazy.
01:16:59:01 - 01:17:02:10
Speaker 1
And then I went home and I got a couple of weeks with my mum.
01:17:02:12 - 01:17:05:01
Speaker 3
Have you started doing music at this point?
01:17:05:03 - 01:17:10:05
Speaker 6
No. Wow.
01:17:10:07 - 01:17:13:19
Speaker 2
So what happened? No. Then what? The job came to an end.
01:17:13:20 - 01:17:31:23
Speaker 1
Like what? They put me on paid leave for three months, and then I think they put me on half pay for another three months, but I was, I just crumbled, I was not doing well. And after my mum died, I think I just realized life's too short. I don't want to say that.
01:17:32:00 - 01:17:32:10
Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:17:32:12 - 01:17:52:21
Speaker 1
I really don't want to do that job. So I had a couple of months. She died in December. I had a couple of months at home, but I knew I needed to leave home, and I accidentally, like, read an email that my dad said. It was quite inconvenient having me at home. So I was like, I need to get out.
01:17:52:23 - 01:17:56:22
Speaker 1
And so then I applied for.
01:17:56:24 - 01:18:15:10
Speaker 1
Some really weird jobs. I went and worked for the Red magazine and the beauty department because I loved skincare. I did a few weeks there as an intern, but it's not paid. I think I would have loved that job, but I couldn't make it paid and I couldn't afford to keep interning. Then I got a job at Cancer Research.
01:18:15:12 - 01:18:24:12
Speaker 1
Yeah, working on their fundraising team. But again, it was only like a short term position. I really loved it because I felt like I was.
01:18:24:14 - 01:18:25:07
Speaker 2
Making a difference.
01:18:25:08 - 01:19:00:22
Speaker 1
Making a difference, doing something to do with my mum. But then obviously, like money becomes an issue. You're trying to support yourself in London. And that I had a few other like, more functional friends I guess, or friends that just came from different backgrounds. I was obviously like state school vibes. And at uni I've met a lot of friends at gone to private school and they just I know they seem to know how to do life better, and they had all gone into finance to work for banks.
01:19:00:24 - 01:19:13:01
Speaker 1
So I was like that just I feel like I can do that and I can earn money. So I got a job as an assistant on a trading floor.
01:19:13:03 - 01:19:13:10
Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:19:13:16 - 01:19:37:12
Speaker 1
There stance. When I must have been. Yeah 23. And that was like really good money. I could pay my rent, I could go out drinking, do whatever I wanted. It was really good money. And I actually like, fell in love not with being an assistant because as you can imagine, not the best. Yeah. Doing like expenses and stuff.
01:19:37:16 - 01:19:42:04
Speaker 1
But I fell in love with the trading floor, which that might sound so weird.
01:19:42:06 - 01:19:43:15
Speaker 2
Hustle and bustle.
01:19:43:17 - 01:20:00:24
Speaker 1
Well, it was like high energy taking phone calls by cell. I don't know, there was something like high octane about that job, and I sort of thought, I wonder if I could become a trader.
01:20:01:01 - 01:20:03:06
Speaker 6
So it's like.
01:20:03:06 - 01:20:04:09
Speaker 3
On Wall Street, kind of.
01:20:04:14 - 01:20:06:15
Speaker 6
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:20:06:17 - 01:20:07:23
Speaker 1
So I did.
01:20:08:00 - 01:20:08:11
Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:20:08:12 - 01:20:09:24
Speaker 2
So you became a trader.
01:20:09:24 - 01:20:32:11
Speaker 1
So I, I was working as an assistant. And then it's quite hard to transition from assistant to trader because normally they've done like maths degrees and stuff. But one night I was out with everyone from the bank and I met a guy, and he was the head of the sales trading desk at this Russian investment firm. And I was like, I've always wanted to do it.
01:20:32:13 - 01:20:39:11
Speaker 1
Obviously, no, it's difficult. This is my degree. And he was like, drop me an email. It was just back in the day when like, deals would be done.
01:20:39:12 - 01:20:40:22
Speaker 2
Russian trading firm.
01:20:40:23 - 01:20:41:04
Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:20:41:04 - 01:21:04:08
Speaker 1
But he was amazing. He was. Maybe I don't need to say this, maybe I do. He wasn't. There was no like other agenda. He was like a really nice guy. He's married. He had kids and he was like, I love the energy. Email me. On Monday. I emailed him and he got me an interview. Then I could junior sales trader position, which I shouldn't have had as an assistant.
01:21:04:10 - 01:21:20:03
Speaker 1
I went in. Interviewed well, interviewed well, got the job and then trained as an actual sales trader, did my FDA training and got all my qualifications and then became sales trader.
01:21:20:05 - 01:21:22:17
Speaker 2
Did you enjoy it?
01:21:22:19 - 01:21:38:09
Speaker 1
Yes and no. So I love just the high octane pressure, but I also hated sometimes my brain would let me down. So I remember one day, this is awful. Taking an order from a client that I mixed up by himself.
01:21:38:11 - 01:21:39:07
Speaker 6
01:21:39:09 - 01:21:40:24
Speaker 3
That's quite a big thing, I think.
01:21:41:02 - 01:21:41:12
Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:21:41:13 - 01:21:42:13
Speaker 3
I'm no trader.
01:21:42:13 - 01:21:42:21
Speaker 6
But.
01:21:43:01 - 01:22:00:06
Speaker 1
It's quite a big thing. But it was like, oh my God. And then the implications of that on the desk and what had to be done. And this was also around the time of the financial crisis. So it was a really difficult time to be in banking. A lot of people losing their jobs, a lot of people moving banks.
01:22:00:07 - 01:22:01:10
Speaker 2
2008.
01:22:01:14 - 01:22:02:12
Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:22:02:14 - 01:22:14:19
Speaker 1
I was working at best, and I left best sellers just before it went completely bust and moved to the, Russian bank. And then that was when I started writing songs.
01:22:14:21 - 01:22:15:18
Speaker 6
01:22:15:20 - 01:22:16:18
Speaker 3
Before we get onto.
01:22:16:18 - 01:22:17:05
Speaker 2
That.
01:22:17:10 - 01:22:31:04
Speaker 3
It's funny that the same age you were both working in a bank in completely different roles, and at that point, had you started any resentment towards the bank because like, you were doing it similar.
01:22:31:04 - 01:22:32:04
Speaker 6
Ish at.
01:22:32:04 - 01:22:36:15
Speaker 1
24. Yeah. I was an event you invent.
01:22:36:17 - 01:22:36:24
Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:22:37:00 - 01:22:40:16
Speaker 1
What were you doing at 25? That's such an amazing point.
01:22:40:20 - 01:22:41:14
Speaker 6
01:22:41:16 - 01:22:46:08
Speaker 2
Before I tell you what I was doing at 24. Yeah. Let's just quickly talk about our sponsors.
01:22:46:10 - 01:22:48:13
Speaker 6
Oh, yeah.
01:22:48:15 - 01:22:52:08
Speaker 1
This is like my new job on.
01:22:52:08 - 01:22:53:12
Speaker 6
Podcast.
01:22:53:14 - 01:22:57:19
Speaker 1
Talking about the amazingly famous.
01:22:57:21 - 01:22:58:18
Speaker 2
Right.
01:22:58:20 - 01:23:00:10
Speaker 6
We're back.
01:23:00:12 - 01:23:29:21
Speaker 2
At 24. I was I think I was in Windsor, I loved it. I loved that city. So we were literally opposite where the bank was. We were opposite Windsor Castle. I was there during the credit crisis. But it was just like I, I made some really good long term friends there. We had change into the guard, I can't remember.
01:23:29:21 - 01:23:41:21
Speaker 2
I think it was every other day, which was awesome. Right outside the branch. Loved Windsor, loved eating I. That was the first time, though, that I had a boss that I.
01:23:41:24 - 01:23:43:01
Speaker 6
Did test.
01:23:43:05 - 01:23:44:05
Speaker 2
Did.
01:23:44:07 - 01:23:47:08
Speaker 3
So how does that work? If you're the manager, who's your boss? Who are you?
01:23:47:14 - 01:24:11:17
Speaker 2
The director? The area director. So I'm responsible for Windsor and Eaton branch is. He's responsible for probably 2020 to 25 branches. Yeah, the big area director. And it was so high pressure, I would be so stressed out. But I coped with that by just going out on the piss all the time.
01:24:11:19 - 01:24:12:22
Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:24:12:24 - 01:24:14:01
Speaker 3
Are you doing a similar thing?
01:24:14:02 - 01:24:14:15
Speaker 6
I was doing.
01:24:14:15 - 01:24:24:23
Speaker 1
A similar thing because it was. It was stressful, kind of stressful situation for different reasons. But it was a heavy drinking and substance culture.
01:24:24:24 - 01:24:26:10
Speaker 2
Oh, I wasn't substance.
01:24:26:11 - 01:24:27:10
Speaker 6
No.
01:24:27:12 - 01:24:31:12
Speaker 2
But we were in Windsor as well, which is an epic night.
01:24:31:13 - 01:24:32:00
Speaker 6
Oh, it's a.
01:24:32:00 - 01:24:33:24
Speaker 1
Great night at Windsor.
01:24:34:02 - 01:24:34:10
Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:24:34:11 - 01:24:37:13
Speaker 1
Wow. That's it. For a moment, we sort of.
01:24:37:15 - 01:24:38:14
Speaker 2
I mean, the same.
01:24:38:16 - 01:24:41:04
Speaker 1
Had the same profession. Yeah. We did.
01:24:41:06 - 01:24:41:15
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:24:41:16 - 01:24:43:20
Speaker 3
I wonder if there was any crossover ever.
01:24:43:22 - 01:24:53:08
Speaker 2
No, they wouldn't have been. Although it's the same for a bank. Completely different jobs. I was looking after people's money. You were.
01:24:53:10 - 01:24:55:15
Speaker 1
Dealing it, spending it.
01:24:55:17 - 01:24:57:23
Speaker 2
Playing blackjack with.
01:24:58:00 - 01:25:19:00
Speaker 3
And the other. The other thing I noticed was that throughout your whole experiences, all the jobs you've had, but always someone or the family in the pub or the lady and the music, there's always someone who has left like a lasting memory on you. So is there anyone that's the same with you, Rachel.
01:25:19:01 - 01:25:22:06
Speaker 1
Oh, that makes me. That actually brings tears to my eyes, because.
01:25:22:06 - 01:25:23:14
Speaker 3
It's just like what's.
01:25:23:16 - 01:25:23:23
Speaker 1
True.
01:25:23:24 - 01:25:29:21
Speaker 3
What, 24, 25 years ago? Yeah. And you still remember someone giving you a 20 pound test? Yeah.
01:25:29:23 - 01:25:34:03
Speaker 2
Only in a negative way.
01:25:34:05 - 01:25:35:16
Speaker 1
That's our characters.
01:25:35:18 - 01:25:38:16
Speaker 3
Yeah. There's no one. When you started as a manager, gave you some good advice.
01:25:38:22 - 01:26:00:19
Speaker 2
One day, there's one guy who I loved working for. His name was Lance. He was my first boss when I was on the desk and stuff, and I got promoted into leadership, and I just loved the way he worked. And I sort of, I would say mimics the majority of my career. On how he led us.
01:26:00:19 - 01:26:22:12
Speaker 2
Like, he just he just he was a cool manager that was liked. But also you wouldn't want to you wouldn't mess with him, but you could also have banner and jokes with him like it was. And that's probably where I started. Yeah. But yeah, nothing lasting. Most of my bosses after that. Apart from Matthew, he was brilliant. The rest of them were horrible bullies.
01:26:22:18 - 01:26:26:02
Speaker 3
But you said that like that is who you've become.
01:26:26:04 - 01:26:27:14
Speaker 2
What?
01:26:27:16 - 01:26:42:13
Speaker 3
No no no no no. Lance the first. Yeah. I have someone who works for you. That is exactly like you don't want to fuck you over. You want to do a good job, and you know that you can have a good. Yeah, that's one person can impact how you work as a manager.
01:26:42:18 - 01:26:44:24
Speaker 1
Who is your role model? And you've become that.
01:26:45:01 - 01:26:49:03
Speaker 3
Were you like that before? Like did you get on because you were similar in that way or.
01:26:49:05 - 01:27:00:09
Speaker 2
No, I don't, I don't I was being molded. I was so young I didn't I didn't really have a personality. Yeah. It's mimic, mimic those around me. Build one of.
01:27:00:09 - 01:27:04:19
Speaker 1
Those autistic parts like coffee. Yeah. Well you picked a good one.
01:27:04:24 - 01:27:22:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think so. I think so, because I agree, I don't think I think many people that work with me would want to get into an argument with me, but I also think they would quite like spending time with me. So both of those things are good I need.
01:27:22:11 - 01:27:31:07
Speaker 3
And once you started Music Rocks, did you then go back to the service jobs? So so we're what, 25?
01:27:31:09 - 01:27:51:02
Speaker 1
So start writing songs in my bedroom, living with a load of other girls, working as traders in the city, and one over here to me and my friend Sarah. And she goes, oh my God, rocks. She's really posh. You really need to take this. Oh my God, this is really quite good. Okay, so I found our local.
01:27:51:02 - 01:27:53:05
Speaker 1
We were living on High Street at the time.
01:27:53:07 - 01:27:54:01
Speaker 2
Nice.
01:27:54:03 - 01:28:21:04
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Topped out on Harley Street, and I found a local open mic night, which was the Phoenix pub on the corner of Cavendish Square. And I went and did that overnight night, and I remember being so nervous, like, so nervous. Sunk a couple of pints, got up hunched over my guitar and sang like a couple of songs, but it just.
01:28:21:06 - 01:28:22:12
Speaker 2
Did it go well?
01:28:22:14 - 01:28:25:06
Speaker 1
I mean, that's like five people in the back. Like, it was fine.
01:28:25:08 - 01:28:26:04
Speaker 2
They like it.
01:28:26:08 - 01:28:28:21
Speaker 1
I think. So couple of people said they thought I had a nice voice.
01:28:28:23 - 01:28:29:07
Speaker 2
Lovely.
01:28:29:08 - 01:28:31:07
Speaker 3
Do you remember what songs you did?
01:28:31:09 - 01:28:37:13
Speaker 1
Yeah. Keep walking, keep working and late song. I've written about my mum.
01:28:37:15 - 01:28:39:03
Speaker 3
I'm so sorry I'm late.
01:28:39:05 - 01:29:01:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. Oh, there you go. Yeah. And then I kept writing songs, playing guitar. And then I started doing a few more open mic nights. And then literally after at my, like, fifth one, someone came up to me. I'm a manager. I got a manager and a record deal after writing five songs.
01:29:01:11 - 01:29:02:17
Speaker 3
That is insane.
01:29:02:18 - 01:29:08:08
Speaker 1
And then I left my job at the bank to pursue music.
01:29:08:10 - 01:29:09:13
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:29:09:15 - 01:29:12:10
Speaker 1
And then I was doing music for a job.
01:29:12:12 - 01:29:15:19
Speaker 2
Straight away. Like that's where how you earn money. You left the bank when.
01:29:15:20 - 01:29:25:18
Speaker 1
I had a record deal and manager they liked funded me to go in and writing album, but I've only written five. Like I was so green.
01:29:25:20 - 01:29:26:08
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:29:26:11 - 01:29:51:22
Speaker 1
Right in that first album. And it took me a while. I did a couple of tours, I did the X factor tours with Matt Cardle, supported chamber. Yeah, had my first band, met my best friend Cat. Yeah, in in. I was probably doing it a couple of years, but sold out. My first show at Hoxton Hall sold out my second show at What's It called?
01:29:51:24 - 01:29:54:20
Speaker 2
And it was very different music. When it was singer songwriter vibes.
01:29:54:22 - 01:30:09:02
Speaker 1
It was, it was. But actually there's a couple of songs that lent a bit Rocky. So it was like folky, but there was moments. There was a song called Oh My God Is So Crazy. There was a song called Blood Rivers.
01:30:09:04 - 01:30:09:19
Speaker 2
Really.
01:30:09:24 - 01:30:35:01
Speaker 1
And it had and it was quite a bit rockier and nothing like what I do now. But yeah, that was the first album for weddings and a funeral for, But then the label went bankrupt and I lost management over night, basically. So I was left with this finished album, but no way to release it, so I released it myself.
01:30:35:03 - 01:31:01:05
Speaker 1
I spent a lot of money on it. I put myself in debt, spent every penny that I've had from my mum on it, and it completely flopped. And it really hurts. Yeah, because I dedicated years of my life to it and spent all of her money on it and so swore I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever do a music project.
01:31:01:07 - 01:31:01:20
Speaker 2
So what.
01:31:01:20 - 01:31:02:19
Speaker 4
Did you do between.
01:31:02:19 - 01:31:05:12
Speaker 2
The two music projects then?
01:31:05:14 - 01:31:06:08
Speaker 1
What do you mean?
01:31:06:09 - 01:31:13:22
Speaker 2
Like when you said no, never again. And then you obviously started Rory, like, I know, five years later. Ten years. Ten years?
01:31:14:03 - 01:31:16:10
Speaker 1
Yeah. No. Or maybe seven.
01:31:16:12 - 01:31:17:00
Speaker 2
What job.
01:31:17:04 - 01:31:40:23
Speaker 1
I started? Well, I didn't want to go back to the bank. I had a moment. I went back and worked as an admin assistant for, like a few months somewhere. But I, after seeing what music was and knowing how I felt about it, I just couldn't find the love for that anymore. And so then I kind of started, working for my brother.
01:31:40:23 - 01:31:54:11
Speaker 1
My brother was a sort of up and coming DJ, so I was like, oh, I can work at your record label. So I work with him for a few years, ended up taking on a small management role, actually songwriting and dance music.
01:31:54:13 - 01:31:58:13
Speaker 3
And directing music videos.
01:31:58:15 - 01:31:59:23
Speaker 1
Yeah, I get I mean, I.
01:31:59:23 - 01:32:00:12
Speaker 3
Was just.
01:32:00:14 - 01:32:23:12
Speaker 1
Everything I did a bit of everything. I was a very creative person, so I just kind of joined someone else's artistic project, I guess, and I did that for years. I really left my own music to join dance music. I've seen vocals, trance music, vocals to, get money to rent. And obviously, like, my self-esteem was not good because I really felt like failure.
01:32:23:14 - 01:32:51:12
Speaker 1
My drinking substance use got worse and worse. And then living alone in London, late 20s. And yeah, it wasn't a very pretty sight. I then moved to Amsterdam. Because I've got a victim from London for being late on my rent two to many times moved to Amsterdam. And that's where, because of all the work I've done selling my vocal to dance music, I got a little publishing deal.
01:32:51:14 - 01:32:52:02
Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:32:52:05 - 01:33:18:21
Speaker 1
And then they set me up with some songwriting sessions. So I started to sunlight. And then that guy called Jonas over in Amsterdam, and we happened to write a couple of hit records. That was a days, I guess. And I worked really hard as the sun writer. And then a couple of those songs became hit six, 18 years for songs to become hits and to be paid money.
01:33:18:23 - 01:33:48:02
Speaker 1
And three years in Amsterdam. The last year was terrible. That was when I decided I had to take a step back from the old substances. Moved to London and just go full time songwriter because I'm too old to be an artist. And then, I don't know, just the fire started burning again, and I thought maybe I could do Rory and and that idea started to come about.
01:33:48:04 - 01:34:10:16
Speaker 1
And then I met you in 2020, and you were, like, really encouraging of me. You do you remember doing the artwork for my first single, cover in the room in vinyl and taking the picture? It was all DIY and you did the artwork, but uncomplicated made our living room into that black and white vinyl floor. So like I, I had someone that loved me.
01:34:10:20 - 01:34:19:19
Speaker 1
It was like on my team, I, I don't know, I guess you thought I loved it, I don't know.
01:34:19:21 - 01:34:28:15
Speaker 2
Well, yeah, yeah. And you needed help like, you like just on logistical things really. And obviously we then started ADHD that together.
01:34:28:17 - 01:34:29:14
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:34:29:16 - 01:34:32:22
Speaker 2
A year later I think. Yeah, maybe less than a year later.
01:34:32:23 - 01:34:51:03
Speaker 1
Well, I joined TikTok as Rory before we had love. And I was like, well, I'm going viral on this pink tick tock. Yeah. So. Oh, and then because of that, I think I was on it. So I was like, let's do this thing. So music really gave us everything.
01:34:51:05 - 01:34:56:00
Speaker 2
Well, I was unexpected in my 1 in 6. So yes, I had like 50,000 followers.
01:34:56:01 - 01:34:57:13
Speaker 1
1 in 6 on. My lord.
01:34:57:13 - 01:34:59:10
Speaker 2
I didn't even know about that. Yeah.
01:34:59:12 - 01:35:02:05
Speaker 1
What a pre influencer influencer era.
01:35:02:07 - 01:35:30:14
Speaker 2
So to to bring it back to real jobs let's say how have all of your experiences pre what 3536. Is there anything from those jobs that you've done that now impacts any HD level Rory or Dobie like presumably rich for Dobie, like the management role you take on with that and the this is for all of it.
01:35:30:15 - 01:36:13:21
Speaker 2
Like you still are the manager of it. Yeah. Do you feel like those skills are transferable? Definitely. I think because whether it's obviously creating videos is creating videos, but there's loads more to it. Whether it's building an outstanding podcast, managing the finances, the cash flow, all of that. I do all of that. And, you know, I think my experience in the bank, I think if you wanted to go into a creative industry, having worked in one now for six years, that skill is what's missing from a lot of people in this industry is just I don't know what like management, leadership, sensible financial decisions.
01:36:13:21 - 01:36:20:06
Speaker 2
Like that's what's missing is where's the business side of it, isn't that right? Yeah.
01:36:20:08 - 01:36:34:24
Speaker 1
I said the operational side because business is also risk taking. The idea it's the operational side. There's so many creative people just fall flat on and can actually get themselves in some pretty tight spots.
01:36:35:01 - 01:36:38:13
Speaker 2
So this when we started this episode. Oh, sorry. You were going to say.
01:36:38:14 - 01:37:02:13
Speaker 1
Well, just Max's question. Historical jobs, have they helped? I think like obviously I've made maybe I made a smaller myself with my 50. No, I don't think so. I've had so many jobs, but like, I guess I, I know how to like, work hard, which sometimes when someone with ADHD is like questioned or you can have low self-esteem.
01:37:02:13 - 01:37:21:23
Speaker 1
I know how to work hard and I sometimes see creative people, complaining about their job and how hard it is. I'll just like, bro, go and work in a fish and chip shop or go and be in the freezer at Iceland. This is this is not hard. It's not to say being a music artist is not without stress.
01:37:21:23 - 01:37:35:16
Speaker 1
There's stress, but it's chosen stress. It's fun stress. And even compared to service industry, let's look at other jobs like teaching or nursing. I just, I don't know, I feel like incredibly.
01:37:35:18 - 01:37:36:09
Speaker 2
Privileged.
01:37:36:10 - 01:38:00:06
Speaker 1
Privileged and lucky and like every single wrong turn was actually a right turn. And I think for me, like, not even writing those songs until 24 or getting dropped, then completely leaving it at 30 and then coming back at late 30s. Like, it's so important just to say that just because you've job hot or quip or being fired or chanting, it doesn't matter.
01:38:00:08 - 01:38:04:18
Speaker 1
You can still end up exactly where you're meant to be in your dream job, in fact.
01:38:04:19 - 01:38:14:24
Speaker 2
And also, your dream job doesn't have to be a single job like your job. Now you're a creative director. You're a graphic designer for your post on Instagram. You're a video editor like you do.
01:38:15:01 - 01:38:15:11
Speaker 1
But I.
01:38:15:13 - 01:38:16:01
Speaker 2
Need.
01:38:16:03 - 01:38:23:05
Speaker 1
I need loads of jobs to keep myself stimulated, I guess. What are you going to say?
01:38:23:05 - 01:38:28:14
Speaker 2
So I was going to say to try and get it to a close when we started this episode.
01:38:28:16 - 01:38:29:13
Speaker 1
Oh long one.
01:38:29:15 - 01:38:43:22
Speaker 2
Yeah, we started so thinking, oh, we would like to people not to feel shame. I don't know whether we've done that. We've just sort of blurted out what we've done over the last 25 years.
01:38:44:03 - 01:38:54:22
Speaker 1
But isn't sharing the different journeys? I hope just showing people it's okay to not know or to be messy, to stay somewhere 20 is to have 20 jobs in 20 years.
01:38:55:01 - 01:38:55:13
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:38:55:15 - 01:39:03:01
Speaker 1
Every journey looks different, but it might be picking up very valuable pieces of the puzzle for where you're going to end up.
01:39:03:03 - 01:39:10:04
Speaker 2
It's true. Mine would be as well. It's never too late like I had. I didn't even use social media when we met.
01:39:10:06 - 01:39:23:24
Speaker 1
But I do remember, I think maybe this is a lovely place to to end, but for any of it you were a non internet person. You had six Instagram posts and they were very like dad bod era.
01:39:24:01 - 01:39:24:24
Speaker 2
Dad bod is.
01:39:24:24 - 01:39:44:24
Speaker 1
Like, I know what I mean by that. Dad bod area has like a dad haircut like a dad. It was just all dad really sweet. But you weren't an internet person at all. No, but you told me at the beginning because obviously you had you had to go into the bank to provide a seer. There were there wasn't really any time in your life for dreams.
01:39:45:04 - 01:39:57:04
Speaker 1
You went from your mom's house to becoming a dad, and you said that you did have a dream and you were younger. You know, I know it sounds silly, but I always wanted to be Dermot O'Leary. Do you remember saying that?
01:39:57:05 - 01:39:57:20
Speaker 2
Do you remember?
01:39:57:20 - 01:40:18:24
Speaker 1
So, like, friendly television presenter. Now, I'm not saying you're done a leary, but like, you show up on people's screens, your little ones and certainly wouldn't be paid as much, but you've kind of found a way back to the very old dream, which was, I don't know, being a sort of friendly face on the internet.
01:40:19:00 - 01:40:25:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. That's interesting. I also said to you, I would I would like to run my own business, but I don't have any ideas.
01:40:25:22 - 01:40:27:07
Speaker 1
Hello?
01:40:27:09 - 01:40:42:24
Speaker 2
Yeah. I have one more thing. Come on. One more question. When and how do you know when it's time to quit and start a new thing? Like where? When did you realize this is the end of my tether? Like I need to get out of this thing.
01:40:43:00 - 01:40:44:17
Speaker 1
You go first because you waited for me.
01:40:44:19 - 01:41:08:08
Speaker 2
And, like, how do you. How do you reckon that like. Because I'm sure there's so many people listening who are in that position where it's like, I've been here for ten years for Libya's, and I'm sick of it. I mean, I don't think there's a right answer to it because I think we're completely different. Like, I would never have left the bank unless I there was a really structured plan around what I was going to do next and whether I would be whether it was financially viable.
01:41:08:08 - 01:41:28:00
Speaker 2
So I took a year out of the bank before actually leaving, and I made sure I had enough money to last me. That year we had the book on its way, so like everything was stacked with me that it would work. And it did. But I'm not necessarily that's not necessarily a right thing. Some people just leave and then figure it out later.
01:41:28:03 - 01:41:34:00
Speaker 1
Yeah, that was me. I just like vibe. I'm like, oh, fish and chips. That's fun. Fancy the closure. Fancy the pub?
01:41:34:01 - 01:41:34:20
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:41:34:22 - 01:41:35:17
Speaker 1
You being a trader?
01:41:35:23 - 01:41:42:02
Speaker 2
I think those that I had, not just me to. I had kids to find us.
01:41:42:04 - 01:41:54:23
Speaker 1
That's so different. And I think that's so important. And what you did, actually, you sacrificed for a young Germany and that's, incredibly amazing. Whereas I, I didn't have that. I was able to just.
01:41:55:01 - 01:41:59:09
Speaker 2
If you survived, that was okay. Like you just say, yeah.
01:41:59:13 - 01:42:29:04
Speaker 1
Just about survive. But yeah, I'd say I'm a big believer in I don't know that like burning desire in you to start or do something awesome. I just believe in doing awesome things with this one life. Maybe that's a slightly entrepreneurial spirit, and I've always had that. If you go back to helping hands, if you've got that in your soul to do anything within your power to bring it to life and to know that it might change, it might grow, it might fail.
01:42:29:04 - 01:42:40:19
Speaker 1
But you'll learn. You'll be okay. And there's so much that can be learned from just doing it and taking brave steps. And yeah, taking risks. If you can calculate your risks.
01:42:40:21 - 01:42:41:21
Speaker 2
I send it there, I think.
01:42:41:22 - 01:42:45:01
Speaker 1
Well, I feel like I know loads more about you.
01:42:45:03 - 01:42:46:00
Speaker 2
You knew everything.
01:42:46:01 - 01:42:47:22
Speaker 1
No, no. Not everything.
01:42:47:24 - 01:42:48:21
Speaker 2
What didn't you know?
01:42:48:22 - 01:42:50:07
Speaker 1
I didn't know about Lance.
01:42:50:13 - 01:42:51:05
Speaker 2
Oh.
01:42:51:07 - 01:43:01:10
Speaker 1
That is just. Yeah. Really cute. I didn't know the age you were from, like Sainsbury's to the bank and where she wasn't that. I just love him.
01:43:01:12 - 01:43:15:12
Speaker 2
Okay, well, if you've liked today, if it's giving you some hope or certainly, hopefully made you feel less shame, give us a like, subscribe, do all the things they really help. But other than that, we will see you next week.
01:43:15:13 - 01:43:24:00
Speaker 1
Unless I decide to go and start trading again. Don't worry.
01:43:24:02 - 01:43:28:09
Speaker 2
Thoughts? I don't know about that one and I think.
01:43:28:11 - 01:43:37:09
Speaker 1
I'm really interested because it was fully. It was more like a normal podcast. I loved you jumping in. I think it really helped keep.
01:43:37:14 - 01:43:46:01
Speaker 2
The idea. You get the gist. You get the kids.
01:43:46:03 - 01:43:46:11
Speaker 2
Love.
01:43:46:13 - 01:43:48:23
Speaker 1
You love.
01:43:49:00 - 01:43:53:21
Speaker 2
It's not racist. Don't worry.
01:43:53:23 - 01:43:58:07
Speaker 2
Not yet.
01:43:58:09 - 01:44:11:20
Speaker 2
No.
01:44:11:22 - 01:44:15:14
Speaker 2
I.
01:44:15:16 - 01:44:33:06
Speaker 1
Are you working a job that you love or working a job that you hate? Do you know when is the right time to quit? Should you stick? Should you leave? Today we are talking about our career histories. Every job that we've had failed at, quit or even being fired from.
01:44:33:08 - 01:44:40:24
Speaker 2
Welcome to late bloomers where we are getting our jobs together eventually. Do you see what I'm doing? I'm like.
01:44:41:00 - 01:44:43:04
Speaker 1
I love how you're sweating it up.
01:44:43:05 - 01:44:44:01
Speaker 2
Oh.
01:44:44:03 - 01:45:07:00
Speaker 1
Really good. Really creative. Now, listen, this is the career graveyard and my goal is for anyone feeling shame about where they're at in their career. Stop speaking to them and feels fine, because we've had two very different experiences of the job market. Haven't been my.
01:45:07:01 - 01:45:08:07
Speaker 2
Darling big time. Yeah.
01:45:08:08 - 01:45:19:14
Speaker 1
So shall we start at the beginning with both of our first ever jobs? Like the first time you got paid something.
01:45:19:16 - 01:45:35:14
Speaker 2
Okay, well, I was going to say I had, like, an unpaid job, which was. I see it because it really helped me in my life. Was like the junior captain of the golf club because I had responsibilities and stuff. Or is that not? That's not really a job, is it?
01:45:35:16 - 01:45:37:07
Speaker 1
You weren't paid at all.
01:45:37:08 - 01:45:39:04
Speaker 2
No, no.
01:45:39:06 - 01:45:39:15
Speaker 1
No.
01:45:39:21 - 01:45:55:18
Speaker 2
I had to choose a team. I had to like, give speeches. I had to follow rules. But again, it's just not the case. Fine. I've had two jobs there. My first one was when I was 15 and I worked at Sainsbury's on the produce department.
01:45:55:19 - 01:45:57:07
Speaker 1
What did you do?
01:45:57:09 - 01:46:00:23
Speaker 2
I put fruit and vegetables on the shelves.
01:46:01:00 - 01:46:03:05
Speaker 1
I bet you actually love that.
01:46:03:06 - 01:46:25:14
Speaker 2
I love that job more than anything. It's so cool. It was like my like, some of my school friends did it as well. We would like have fights in the back, like with fruits and vegetables. We'd throw cherry tomatoes at each other. It got a bit serious once we started throwing avocados at each other.
01:46:25:16 - 01:46:26:19
Speaker 1
Because of the styling it's.
01:46:26:19 - 01:46:30:08
Speaker 2
A bit. Yeah. It's quite, quite hard. Clock someone in the middle of the head.
01:46:30:09 - 01:46:33:06
Speaker 1
I mean I don't think you're meant to be doing that whilst.
01:46:33:10 - 01:46:35:03
Speaker 2
No, but I was 15 babe.
01:46:35:07 - 01:46:37:14
Speaker 1
How long were you at Sainsbury's.
01:46:37:16 - 01:46:50:21
Speaker 2
I left, so I was offered a management apprenticeship at Sainsbury's, but I left to go to work for Barclays when I was 16, just before I turned 17.
01:46:50:23 - 01:46:52:16
Speaker 1
And then you.
01:46:52:18 - 01:47:01:00
Speaker 2
Stayed there until. So I joined when I was six. Did the September the 10th, 2002?
01:47:01:02 - 01:47:02:09
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:47:02:11 - 01:47:10:07
Speaker 2
So just 12, 17. And then I left when I was 36. When did I leave Barclays?
01:47:10:09 - 01:47:11:22
Speaker 1
I'm not going to ask.
01:47:11:24 - 01:47:15:21
Speaker 2
When did we start? Like when did dirty laundry come out?
01:47:15:23 - 01:47:18:00
Speaker 1
January 2022.
01:47:18:04 - 01:47:24:01
Speaker 2
So I left in 20. Yeah. So 20 years.
01:47:24:03 - 01:47:30:00
Speaker 1
So this episode is basically about us, and I like careers.
01:47:30:02 - 01:47:32:10
Speaker 2
It wasn't the same job for 20.
01:47:32:12 - 01:47:42:15
Speaker 1
Okay. So maybe we'll talk about how your job evolved. Yeah. And you had seer. So you had seer when you're at Sainsbury's. Know when you're at Barclays.
01:47:42:16 - 01:47:43:02
Speaker 2
Yes.
01:47:43:07 - 01:47:46:12
Speaker 1
At 17.
01:47:46:14 - 01:47:59:22
Speaker 2
Conceived at 17. Born 18. So I was 18 and November. I got married in November. Service. Born in February. That's. Well, yeah.
01:47:59:24 - 01:48:06:21
Speaker 1
That's okay. So my first job, I'd kind of got one like you that's like, whether it counts or not.
01:48:06:22 - 01:48:07:07
Speaker 2
Which is.
01:48:07:07 - 01:48:13:22
Speaker 1
Right when I started my Helping Hands business. I know.
01:48:13:24 - 01:48:22:03
Speaker 2
I just remember it's like it's so cute and funny and so you as well. Yeah.
01:48:22:05 - 01:48:23:19
Speaker 1
But isn't that. I mean, I got paid.
01:48:23:20 - 01:48:25:00
Speaker 2
Well, then. Yeah.
01:48:25:02 - 01:48:48:10
Speaker 1
So started helping hands make little fliers on Microsoft Word with, like, clip arts. I love helping hands. Made a little logo and I delivered it all around my estate. So not only my road, but like all the other connecting roads. And I was offering like gardening, babysitting, like car cleaning, like a helping pair of hands that apes..
01:48:48:12 - 01:48:53:08
Speaker 2
You can't babysit a. Animals and stuff. Oh, right.
01:48:53:10 - 01:49:08:11
Speaker 1
Petcare, which is actually I did get one client which is looking after a rabbit. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, looking back now, it's quite young. Was like eight members. Ten I was young. Yeah, I was in junior school.
01:49:08:12 - 01:49:14:10
Speaker 2
You just got the one. The one job though, right? Yeah, yeah.
01:49:14:11 - 01:49:15:14
Speaker 1
Hundreds lives.
01:49:15:18 - 01:49:16:16
Speaker 2
That's sad.
01:49:16:20 - 01:49:26:24
Speaker 1
Yeah, but I think it goes to show persistence. I'm still like that now. I'll still hand out 100 fliers to get that one. You will? So that was my first job.
01:49:27:01 - 01:49:29:22
Speaker 2
What's your, like, proper job, though.
01:49:29:24 - 01:49:33:01
Speaker 1
With the next job after that was babysitting.
01:49:33:03 - 01:49:35:22
Speaker 2
Okay. How were you at babysitting?
01:49:35:24 - 01:49:38:16
Speaker 1
01:49:38:18 - 01:49:43:12
Speaker 1
I think I just remember, like, eating ice cream and watching the telly.
01:49:43:14 - 01:49:44:23
Speaker 2
I bet you're already.
01:49:45:00 - 01:49:51:20
Speaker 1
Out like this little. Go to bed. Yeah, it's quite easy. It's a great job, baby.
01:49:51:22 - 01:49:56:01
Speaker 2
I did a bit of babysitting, actually. Oh, I forgot to mention that. I didn't really see that as a job.
01:49:56:02 - 01:49:57:12
Speaker 1
How were you at babysitting?
01:49:57:14 - 01:50:05:18
Speaker 2
Fine. Same. I used to, like, get paid for few movies. I remember watching Gladiator. Oh, no.
01:50:05:18 - 01:50:22:05
Speaker 1
Not mind read some. Absolutely not appropriate there. No baby sitting? No. Okay. But like my actual first, like, on the payroll job and would have been the fish and chip shop.
01:50:22:07 - 01:50:24:05
Speaker 2
Right. Okay. Talk. Talk to me.
01:50:24:07 - 01:50:26:01
Speaker 1
Place on the green.
01:50:26:03 - 01:50:30:00
Speaker 2
Is that. That's adding spelt PLAICE.
01:50:30:05 - 01:50:42:22
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. It was on the green inside. Green. Green. It's called place on the green. It's run by Mandy. Some of my best friends were up there and used to have like 2 or 3 shifts a week. I think you were getting maybe like 4 pounds 15 hour, which was like loads.
01:50:42:23 - 01:50:44:04
Speaker 2
Did you get free fish and chips?
01:50:44:08 - 01:50:50:02
Speaker 1
Yes, you did every day. So I worked there for quite a while.
01:50:50:04 - 01:50:52:15
Speaker 2
And how were you for like, showing up on time and.
01:50:52:16 - 01:50:53:16
Speaker 1
Getting amazing?
01:50:53:17 - 01:50:54:13
Speaker 2
Wow.
01:50:54:15 - 01:50:57:06
Speaker 1
I dropped off by my parents as when I was, like, 15.
01:50:57:07 - 01:50:57:23
Speaker 2
Oh, okay.
01:50:57:24 - 01:51:03:14
Speaker 1
So I got dropped off. My parents picked up, I think fish and chips home for the whole family.
01:51:03:16 - 01:51:04:03
Speaker 2
Okay.
01:51:04:07 - 01:51:08:02
Speaker 1
Yeah. Then I had an Iceland.
01:51:08:04 - 01:51:08:24
Speaker 2
Okay. Yeah.
01:51:09:01 - 01:51:19:08
Speaker 1
In Iceland I worked on the checkouts and I got promoted to like, freezer. So I was, like, working in the field with one of those hot six way. Yeah. Bringing out the food and.
01:51:19:10 - 01:51:21:20
Speaker 2
And what's you in like a space.
01:51:21:22 - 01:51:26:19
Speaker 1
It's a space. Yeah. It's quite young. That's crazy. And then I worked for Tesco.
01:51:26:21 - 01:51:31:08
Speaker 2
Why did you leave Iceland to go Tesco Highlander. Right.
01:51:31:10 - 01:51:35:08
Speaker 1
And so then Tesco. I was in a cafe.
01:51:35:10 - 01:51:36:12
Speaker 2
Are you not old now?
01:51:36:15 - 01:51:37:21
Speaker 1
No, 16.
01:51:37:23 - 01:51:43:18
Speaker 2
Oh, right. So you had four jobs by time you were 16. That's quite a lot in it, though.
01:51:43:20 - 01:51:47:09
Speaker 1
Yes. And had Tesco. Then I had the restaurant.
01:51:47:11 - 01:51:47:22
Speaker 2
Right.
01:51:47:24 - 01:51:48:14
Speaker 1
The forest.
01:51:48:14 - 01:51:51:08
Speaker 2
Is have like tell us ages that you are.
01:51:51:09 - 01:51:52:24
Speaker 1
Oh probably like 17.
01:51:53:00 - 01:51:54:05
Speaker 2
Okay. Five by seven.
01:51:54:06 - 01:51:59:01
Speaker 1
Yeah. And then I'm on the I'm like serving food. It was like a gastropub.
01:51:59:03 - 01:52:01:00
Speaker 2
Oh, that sounds stressful.
01:52:01:02 - 01:52:18:20
Speaker 1
I kind of loved it though, because, like, if you think about the old brain, like, you work well under pressure. Yeah. And I never forget, I remember one time I, like, messed up someone's entire order, wrote it down, bought out the wrong thing. They were celebrating a birthday. I panicked, I was, like, so apologetic. They left me 20 pounds in nice.
01:52:18:22 - 01:52:20:21
Speaker 1
Can see that you really tried. Have never forgotten.
01:52:20:21 - 01:52:24:13
Speaker 2
That what actually happened though. Like when they got the wrong food, did they see it?
01:52:24:18 - 01:52:37:03
Speaker 1
They were like, oh yeah, I think I don't remember that. I just remember the kindness. Oh that's 17. Then I go to the clothes shop because I'm working at warehouse clothes shop.
01:52:37:05 - 01:52:55:03
Speaker 2
Why have you had so many different jobs by this point just because you didn't get fired, did you just change? Right. Okay. And you were mid 30s before you got diagnosed with.
01:52:55:05 - 01:52:56:21
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah.
01:52:56:23 - 01:52:58:20
Speaker 2
Quite quite shocked.
01:52:58:22 - 01:53:11:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. Did that on the weekends working in Devon Inns. And then I did the when I was 18 I worked in Whiteley in another clove shop and that's where I met my best friend Sophie.
01:53:11:20 - 01:53:12:08
Speaker 2
Okay.
01:53:12:11 - 01:53:25:05
Speaker 1
Then I went to uni 18 to 21. So I came back and I worked in the clove shop. But whilst I was at uni I also worked in a pub at uni. So I was like, listen, I've been around and about a bit but I did.
01:53:25:08 - 01:53:32:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. And and up to this point in your career, you haven't been fired, you haven't done anything wrong. You've turned up on time, you've done a good job.
01:53:32:19 - 01:53:41:07
Speaker 1
I actually was like, I remember being quite a valued member of staff because I tried really hard, I really cared, I wanted to do an amazing job.
01:53:41:08 - 01:53:41:20
Speaker 2
Okay.
01:53:41:22 - 01:53:42:08
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:53:42:13 - 01:54:02:24
Speaker 2
Yeah. Nice. So by the time I was 18, I was. So I started as a cashier at 16, and then I was promoted to a personal banker. So the people that sell stuff on the desk, and help people. And then by 19, I was an assistant manager in Farnham.
01:54:03:03 - 01:54:06:23
Speaker 1
Oh, wow. So you had, like, a proper adult job?
01:54:07:00 - 01:54:08:05
Speaker 2
Yeah, 90.
01:54:08:06 - 01:54:10:04
Speaker 1
But I guess you had a baby, so you sort of had.
01:54:10:04 - 01:54:30:03
Speaker 2
To I that's literally it. Like, I couldn't afford really to survive. So I had to go from my cashier wage and I had more money really quickly. So I just was better than everyone else at all. All of the things that I did and then I was. And then I was only an assistant manager for a year, and then I had my own branch by the time I was 20.
01:54:30:05 - 01:54:31:06
Speaker 1
20 years later.
01:54:31:07 - 01:54:37:18
Speaker 2
Entire house near reading. Wow. Yeah. I was the youngest one in the branch and I was the manager.
01:54:37:20 - 01:54:39:06
Speaker 1
Wow. I love that to you.
01:54:39:10 - 01:55:07:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. How did everyone else take their. Oh, yeah. What happened? A young manager, fine, but absolutely fine. Like, they like the one thing about Barclays at that time, they they employed based on ability. Unless we real. We're talking I of years ago now 20 years ago now it was very much a sales culture and I was a good salesperson.
01:55:08:00 - 01:55:08:15
Speaker 1
I can see.
01:55:08:15 - 01:55:18:05
Speaker 2
That it's not so much as sales, like the banks sort of ruined it for everyone. So they don't really talk about sales is a bit of swear word in banking now, but.
01:55:18:07 - 01:55:32:19
Speaker 7
And did you feel any imposter syndrome or like, weirdness about being that young and a joke because you two were at very different stages in your life, be the same age? Because I can imagine if you feel rocked in that position, you would feel very uncomfortable being.
01:55:32:20 - 01:55:47:23
Speaker 1
As I would have risen to the challenge, do you think? Yeah, big, big time. I love to challenge every job I had at fish and Chip shop. I was promoted to fire Iceland. I went from till to running the freeze like I loved it. Oh yeah. Looking back, good at it, I loved it.
01:55:47:24 - 01:56:06:19
Speaker 2
My whole thing. I was pretty much in leadership the whole time after that and like, my whole thing I wasn't very good at. Believe it or not, I wasn't very good at, like, the admin side of things I didn't like. It was really, really boring. And bear in mind, I didn't know it was all stick. And so I was really highly maths for the whole my whole career.
01:56:06:21 - 01:56:27:07
Speaker 2
And my whole thing was just getting all of my team to like, just like love me and do it for me, like for me. So I was like considered a really good manager. I was I was firm, but I was really fun as well. Yeah.
01:56:27:09 - 01:56:27:22
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:56:28:00 - 01:56:30:16
Speaker 1
It's amazing to think about it that early.
01:56:30:18 - 01:56:36:13
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I ended up hated hating my job, but I didn't back then. It was fun back then.
01:56:36:15 - 01:56:41:21
Speaker 1
Yeah. When you were getting promoted, earning more money from him for a newborn, like you're going to feel.
01:56:41:23 - 01:56:42:10
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:56:42:13 - 01:56:44:10
Speaker 1
A sense of pride, maybe.
01:56:44:13 - 01:56:50:22
Speaker 2
Yeah. All right. What about you then? See, we are at the well. So maybe after uni.
01:56:50:23 - 01:57:10:11
Speaker 1
After uni. So I realized I needed to get graduate job. Left it all last minute obviously. So then applied to some of the things that were still open. Got an interview at WC training to be encountered in my graduate program, which was like highly competitive, but I got it because I had to interview very well.
01:57:10:16 - 01:57:11:14
Speaker 2
That doesn't surprise.
01:57:11:17 - 01:57:14:08
Speaker 1
Job terribly, but the interview.
01:57:14:11 - 01:57:22:06
Speaker 2
I wouldn't have wouldn't have said an accountant is like the job for you, knowing you, you.
01:57:22:08 - 01:57:39:13
Speaker 1
Know, but it was like what was expected. You've gone to good uni, you've got a degree, got a good degree. Did you get a graduate from all my other friends with getting graduate drugs? So I left uni and started training to be an accountant and working at me.
01:57:39:15 - 01:57:43:07
Speaker 7
What's the trick to interviewing? Well.
01:57:43:09 - 01:58:00:23
Speaker 1
I think just being good under pressure, the people person. So I was like had great energy, very smiley. I would have researched the company the night before and just come across really well. I think a lot of ADHD people could relate to that. It would be the actual day to day grind you would struggle with, but interviewing would be greater.
01:58:00:24 - 01:58:09:11
Speaker 2
And am I right in saying this is the first? Like this is the first job that maybe you were a bit like, what have I done when you when you were in it?
01:58:09:12 - 01:58:11:08
Speaker 1
Oh yeah.
01:58:11:10 - 01:58:16:18
Speaker 2
And because I would imagine there's loads of ADHD people that find themselves in that situation.
01:58:16:19 - 01:58:39:06
Speaker 1
All my jobs up until that point had been not manual jobs. I don't know what you'd call them, but like working on a shop floor, working a fish and chip shop, working in a public service. Now, that might not sound as glamorous as a graduate program at WC. It was so much better suited for me being on my feet.
01:58:39:10 - 01:59:04:22
Speaker 1
Customer facing that constant stresses. You don't have to self motivate because your motivation is right in front of you have to do it. Whereas WC, I was having to go to accountancy training and like learn the qualification one day a week and then four days in the office and being put on clients. And I was completely and utterly overwhelmed and out of my depth and really, really struggling.
01:59:04:24 - 01:59:12:05
Speaker 2
And is this the first time in your career that you started to feel a bit of like, shame, maybe, or like what?
01:59:12:05 - 01:59:30:21
Speaker 1
What? I felt pretty invincible. I'd always been kind of loved at work and I'd done well in the service roles. So this was the first time where I realized something was missing in me that other people had, and I didn't really understand what it was.
01:59:30:23 - 01:59:31:20
Speaker 7
And so.
01:59:31:22 - 01:59:33:11
Speaker 2
So what did you do? What happened?
01:59:33:16 - 01:59:56:06
Speaker 1
So this was the same time. So I start this in September, but this is when my mum is really ill and she always dreamt of me having like a graduate job. So I was really trying to do it because she was at the end of her life. So I thought it'd be really kind to like show, look, look, I've, I've made it, but I just didn't.
01:59:56:07 - 02:00:21:19
Speaker 1
I wasn't doing very well. Obviously the stress of that, your mum dying whilst trying to like it was a little bit too much, but I didn't have anyone really like to talk to me. And I do remember. This is so crazy. When would this be? Maybe it's November. Yeah, it must be November because it was only a couple of weeks before she died.
02:00:21:21 - 02:00:38:04
Speaker 1
I was doing some, like test, and this woman who worked at WC was like, asked me how I was doing was, you know, not very well when my mum's at the end of life, but, I'm here. She just hadn't. You need to go home.
02:00:38:06 - 02:00:38:23
Speaker 2
02:00:39:00 - 02:00:59:06
Speaker 1
I was like, oh, do I? It was so strange. It was like this mumsy adult figure that I really needed someone to look at me and just go, why the hell are you? And I was only an hour and a half away, and I was like, okay. So I took an extended leave and let me leave straight away because of this woman.
02:00:59:08 - 02:00:59:21
Speaker 2
Yeah.
02:00:59:24 - 02:01:03:24
Speaker 1
Crazy. And I went home and I got a couple of weeks with my mum.
02:01:04:01 - 02:01:06:15
Speaker 7
Have you started doing music at this point?
02:01:06:17 - 02:01:07:15
Speaker 1
No.
02:01:07:17 - 02:01:10:13
Speaker 2
Wow.
02:01:10:15 - 02:01:11:18
Speaker 1
So.
02:01:11:20 - 02:01:15:24
Speaker 2
So what happened? So then what? The job came to an end. Is that what.
02:01:16:01 - 02:01:36:24
Speaker 1
They put me on paid leave for three months, and then I think they put me on half pay for another three months, but I was I just crumbled, I was not doing well. And after my mum died, I think I just realized life's too short. I don't want to say that. Yeah, I really don't want to do that job.
02:01:37:01 - 02:01:58:11
Speaker 1
So I had a couple of months. She died in December. I had a couple of months at home, but I knew I needed to leave home, and I accidentally, like, read an email that my dad said. It was quite inconvenient having me home. So I was like, I need to get out. And so then I applied for.
02:01:58:13 - 02:02:16:24
Speaker 1
Some really weird jobs. I went and worked for Red magazine and the beauty department because I loved skincare and I did a few weeks there as an intern, but it's not paid. I think I would have loved that job, but I couldn't make it paid and I couldn't afford to keep interning. Then I got a job at Cancer Research.
02:02:17:01 - 02:02:26:02
Speaker 1
Yeah, working on their fundraising team. But again, it was only like a short term position. I really loved it because I felt like I was.
02:02:26:04 - 02:02:26:23
Speaker 2
Making a difference.
02:02:27:00 - 02:03:02:14
Speaker 1
Making a difference, doing something to do with my mum. But then obviously, like money becomes an issue and you try to support yourself in London. And that I had a few other like more functional friends I guess, or friends that just came from different backgrounds. I was obviously like state school vibes. And at uni I've met a lot of friends at gone to private school and they just I know they seem to know how to do life better, and they had all gone into finance to work for banks.
02:03:02:16 - 02:03:14:15
Speaker 1
So I was like that just I feel like I can do that and I can earn money. So I got a job as an assistant on a trading floor.
02:03:14:17 - 02:03:15:05
Speaker 2
Yeah.
02:03:15:07 - 02:03:43:13
Speaker 1
There stands. Well I must have been. Yeah. 23. And that was like really good money. I could pay my rent, I could go on drinking, do whatever I wanted. It was really good money. And I actually, like, fell in love. Not within an assistant because as you can imagine, not the best. Yeah. Doing, like, expenses and stuff. But then in love with the trading floor, which that might sound so weird.
02:03:43:17 - 02:03:45:06
Speaker 2
The hustle and bustle, I imagine.
02:03:45:07 - 02:04:02:16
Speaker 1
Well, it was like high energy taking pen calls by cell. I don't know, there's something like high octane about that job. And I sort of thought, I wonder if I could become a trader.
02:04:02:18 - 02:04:07:00
Speaker 7
So on Wall Street, kind of. Yeah.
02:04:07:02 - 02:04:09:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, so I did.
02:04:09:15 - 02:04:11:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. You became a trader.
02:04:11:15 - 02:04:34:01
Speaker 1
So I, I was working as an assistant. And then it's quite hard to transition from assistant to trader because normally they've done like maths degrees and stuff. But one night I was out the Devon from the bank and I met a guy and he was the head of the sales trading desk at this Russian investment plan. I was like, I've always wanted to do it.
02:04:34:03 - 02:04:41:01
Speaker 1
Obviously, no, it's difficult. This is my degree. And he was like, drop me an email. It was just back in the day when like, deals would be done.
02:04:41:02 - 02:04:42:12
Speaker 2
Russian trading firm.
02:04:42:13 - 02:05:05:24
Speaker 1
Yeah, he was amazing. He was. Maybe I don't need to say this, maybe I do. He wasn't. There was no like other agenda. He was like a really nice guy. He's married. He had kids and he was like, I love the energy. Email me. On Monday, I emailed him, I got me an interview and I could junior sales trading position, which I shouldn't have had as an assistant.
02:05:06:01 - 02:05:07:24
Speaker 1
I went in.
02:05:08:01 - 02:05:08:23
Speaker 2
Interviewed well.
02:05:08:24 - 02:05:21:16
Speaker 1
Interviewed well, got the job and then trained as an actual sales trainer, did my FDA training and got all my confiscations and then became sales trader.
02:05:21:18 - 02:05:24:10
Speaker 2
Did you enjoy it?
02:05:24:12 - 02:05:39:23
Speaker 1
Yes and no. So I loved just the high octane pressure, but I also hated sometimes my brain would let me down. So I remember one day this is awful. And taking an order from a client and I mixed up by himself.
02:05:40:00 - 02:05:40:22
Speaker 2
02:05:40:24 - 02:05:45:00
Speaker 7
That's quite a big thing, I think. Yeah, I'm no trade ever.
02:05:45:02 - 02:06:01:21
Speaker 1
A big thing. But it was like, oh my God. And then the implications of that on the desk and what had to be done. And this was also around the time of the financial crisis. So it was a really difficult time to be in banking. A lot of people losing their jobs, a lot of people moving banks.
02:06:01:22 - 02:06:04:03
Speaker 2
2008. Yeah.
02:06:04:05 - 02:06:16:08
Speaker 1
I was working at Bear Stearns. I left Bear Stearns just before it went completely. Bastard moved to the, Russian Bank. And then that was when I started writing songs.
02:06:16:10 - 02:06:17:07
Speaker 2
02:06:17:09 - 02:06:32:19
Speaker 7
Before we get onto there, it's funny that the same age you were both working in a bank in completely different roles. And at that point, had you started any resentment towards the bank because like you were doing a similar.
02:06:32:19 - 02:06:33:17
Speaker 2
Extra.
02:06:33:19 - 02:06:35:23
Speaker 1
24?
02:06:36:00 - 02:06:36:07
Speaker 2
Yeah.
02:06:36:08 - 02:06:38:03
Speaker 1
I was in about you and me.
02:06:38:05 - 02:06:38:14
Speaker 2
Yeah.
02:06:38:15 - 02:06:43:01
Speaker 1
What were you doing at 25? That's such an amazing point.
02:06:43:03 - 02:06:47:23
Speaker 2
Before I tell you what I was going to say for. Yeah, let's just quickly talk about our sponsors.
02:06:48:00 - 02:06:59:08
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. This is like my new job on a podcast talking about the amazing new videos.
02:06:59:10 - 02:07:31:11
Speaker 2
Right? We're back at 24. I was I think I was in Windsor. I loved it, I love that city. So we were literally opposite where the bank was. We were opposite Windsor Castle. I was there during the credit crisis. But it was just like I, I made some really good long term friends there. We had change into the guard, I can't remember.
02:07:31:11 - 02:07:45:21
Speaker 2
I think it was every other day, which was awesome. Right outside the branch. Loved Windsor, loved Eton. I that was the first time that I had a boss that I detest.
02:07:45:23 - 02:07:48:23
Speaker 7
So how does that work? If you're the manager, who's your boss? Who are you?
02:07:49:04 - 02:08:14:11
Speaker 2
The director. The area director. So I'm responsible for Windsor and eating branches. He's responsible for probably 20, 20, 25 branches. Like, yeah, the big area director. And it was so high pressure, I would be so stressed out. But I coped with that by just going out on the pace of the time. Yeah.
02:08:14:13 - 02:08:15:16
Speaker 7
You're doing a similar thing.
02:08:15:17 - 02:08:26:13
Speaker 1
I was doing a similar thing because it was it was stressful, kind of stressful situation for different reasons, but it was a heavy drinking and substance culture.
02:08:26:14 - 02:08:33:02
Speaker 2
Oh, I wasn't substance. No. But we were in Windsor as well, which is an epic night.
02:08:33:03 - 02:08:35:14
Speaker 1
Oh, it's a great night out. Windsor.
02:08:35:17 - 02:08:36:00
Speaker 2
Yeah.
02:08:36:01 - 02:08:39:03
Speaker 1
Wow. That's it. For a moment, we sort of.
02:08:39:05 - 02:08:41:22
Speaker 2
We're in the same profession. The same profession?
02:08:42:00 - 02:08:42:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. We did.
02:08:42:20 - 02:08:43:05
Speaker 2
Yeah.
02:08:43:06 - 02:08:45:09
Speaker 7
I wonder if there was any crossover ever.
02:08:45:12 - 02:08:54:24
Speaker 2
No, they wouldn't have been. Although it's the same. We both have a bank. Completely different jobs. I was looking after people's money. You were.
02:08:55:01 - 02:08:57:06
Speaker 1
Dealing it. Spending it.
02:08:57:08 - 02:08:59:13
Speaker 2
Playing blackjack with it.
02:08:59:15 - 02:09:20:15
Speaker 7
I mean, that's the other thing I noticed was the. Throughout your whole experiences, all the jobs you had, that always someone or the family in the pub or the lady MP, the Duke, there's always someone who has left, like a lasting memory on you. So is there anyone that's the same with you, Rachel.
02:09:20:16 - 02:09:25:19
Speaker 1
Oh, that makes me. That actually brings tears to my eyes. Because it's it's so true.
02:09:25:21 - 02:09:31:11
Speaker 7
24, 25 years ago. Yeah. And you still remember someone giving you a 20 pound test? Yeah.
02:09:31:13 - 02:09:33:14
Speaker 2
Only in a negative way.
02:09:33:16 - 02:09:35:19
Speaker 7
That's the.
02:09:35:21 - 02:09:37:09
Speaker 1
That's our characters.
02:09:37:11 - 02:09:40:05
Speaker 7
There's no one. When you started as a manager gave me some good advice.
02:09:40:06 - 02:10:02:08
Speaker 2
There's one by. There's one guy who I loved working for us. His name is Lance. He was my first boss when I was on the desk and stuff, and I got promoted into leadership. And I just loved the way he worked. And I sort of, I would say, mimics the majority of my career. On how he led us.
02:10:02:08 - 02:10:21:21
Speaker 2
Like, he just he just he was a cool manager that was liked. But also you wouldn't want to you wouldn't mess with him, but you could also have banter and jokes with him like it was. And that's probably where I started. Yeah. But yeah, nothing asked in most of my bosses after that. Apart from Matthew, he was brilliant.
02:10:21:23 - 02:10:24:03
Speaker 2
The rest of them were horrible bullies.
02:10:24:09 - 02:10:27:17
Speaker 7
But he said that that is who you've become.
02:10:27:19 - 02:10:29:08
Speaker 2
What?
02:10:29:10 - 02:10:44:04
Speaker 7
No no no no. Like Lance the first. Yeah. Have someone who works for you. That is exactly like you don't want to fuck you over. You want to do a good job, and you know that you can have a good. Yeah, that one person can impact how you work as a manager.
02:10:44:05 - 02:10:46:01
Speaker 1
But it's your role model and you can't.
02:10:46:02 - 02:10:50:14
Speaker 7
That's why you like that before. Like, did you get on because you were similar in that way? Or.
02:10:50:18 - 02:11:01:22
Speaker 2
No I don't I don't I was being molded. I was so young I didn't I didn't really have a personality. Yeah. He just mimic those around me to build one.
02:11:01:22 - 02:11:06:09
Speaker 1
Of those. So autistic with parts like Gothic. Yeah. Well, you picked a good one.
02:11:06:15 - 02:11:21:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think so. I think so, because I, I agree, I don't think, I think many people that work with me would want to get into an argument with me, but I also think they would quite like spending time with me. So both both of.
02:11:21:09 - 02:11:22:06
Speaker 7
Those things.
02:11:22:08 - 02:11:24:01
Speaker 2
Are good, I think.
02:11:24:03 - 02:11:32:12
Speaker 7
And once you started Music Rocks, did you then go back to the service jobs? So so we're what, 25.
02:11:32:14 - 02:11:54:20
Speaker 1
25? So I start writing songs in my bedroom, living with a load of other girls, working as traders in the city. And one over here is me and my friend Sarah, and she goes, oh my God. She's really pleased to take this. Might like this. Really good. Okay, so I found our local. We were living on Harley Street at the time.
02:11:54:22 - 02:11:55:10
Speaker 2
Nice.
02:11:55:11 - 02:11:56:00
Speaker 7
Oh, yeah?
02:11:56:03 - 02:12:22:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. Topped out on Harley Street, and I found a local open mic night, which is the Phoenix pub on the corner of Cavendish Square. And I went and did the overnight light, and I remember being so nervous, like, so nervous. Sunk a couple of pints, got up hunched over my guitar and sung like a couple of songs. But it just,
02:12:22:20 - 02:12:24:03
Speaker 2
Did it go well?
02:12:24:05 - 02:12:26:20
Speaker 1
I mean, there was like five people in the fact that it was fine.
02:12:26:21 - 02:12:27:18
Speaker 2
Did they like it?
02:12:27:23 - 02:12:30:11
Speaker 1
I think so, couple of people said they had a nice voice.
02:12:30:12 - 02:12:32:23
Speaker 7
Lovely. Do you remember what songs you did?
02:12:33:00 - 02:12:39:04
Speaker 1
Yeah. Keep walking, keep walking at lakes song. I've written about my mum.
02:12:39:06 - 02:12:40:18
Speaker 7
That's. Sorry I'm late.
02:12:40:20 - 02:13:03:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. Oh, there you go. Yeah. And then I kept writing songs, playing guitar. And then I started doing a few more open mic nights. And then literally after, at my, like, fifth one, someone came up to me and said, oh, I'm a manager. I got a manager in a record deal after writing five songs.
02:13:03:02 - 02:13:04:07
Speaker 7
That is insane.
02:13:04:08 - 02:13:09:24
Speaker 1
And then I left my job at the bank to pursue music.
02:13:10:01 - 02:13:11:04
Speaker 7
Yeah.
02:13:11:06 - 02:13:14:00
Speaker 1
And then I was doing music for a job.
02:13:14:02 - 02:13:17:11
Speaker 2
Straight away. Like that's where. How you weren't money. You left the bank, went.
02:13:17:11 - 02:13:27:09
Speaker 1
To the record deal. A manager they like funded me to go in and write an album, but I'd only written five. Like, I was so green.
02:13:27:11 - 02:13:27:23
Speaker 2
Yeah.
02:13:28:02 - 02:13:52:01
Speaker 1
Writing that first album, and it took me a while. I did a couple of tours. I did the X factor tours with Matt Cardle, supported Jane McElderry. Yeah. Had my first band. Met my best friend Cat. Yeah. In in. I've probably been doing it a couple of years, but, sold out. My first show at Hoxton Hall. Sold out my second show at.
02:13:52:03 - 02:13:53:12
Speaker 1
Oh. What's it called?
02:13:53:14 - 02:13:56:10
Speaker 2
It was very different music when it was singer songwriter vibes.
02:13:56:11 - 02:14:10:17
Speaker 1
It was, it was. But actually there's a couple of songs that lent a bit rocky, so it was like folky, but there was moments. There was a song called. Oh My God, it's so crazy. There was a song called Blood Rivers.
02:14:10:19 - 02:14:11:10
Speaker 2
Really?
02:14:11:14 - 02:14:33:05
Speaker 1
And it had and it was quite a bit rockier and nothing like what I do now. But yeah, that was the first album for weddings and a funeral as I was. But then the label went bankrupt and I lost management over night, basically. So I was left with this finished album, but no way to.
02:14:33:07 - 02:14:33:23
Speaker 2
Release.
02:14:34:00 - 02:15:02:20
Speaker 1
Set to I released it myself. I spent a lot of money on it, put myself in debt to spend every penny that I had for my mum on it, and it completely flopped. And it really hurts. Yeah, because a dedicated years of my life to it and spend all of her money on it and so swore I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever do a music project.
02:15:02:22 - 02:15:03:23
Speaker 4
So what did you do.
02:15:03:23 - 02:15:07:03
Speaker 2
Between the two music projects then?
02:15:07:05 - 02:15:07:23
Speaker 1
What do you mean?
02:15:07:24 - 02:15:14:09
Speaker 2
Like when you said no, never again. And then you obviously started Rory. Like, I know, five years later.
02:15:14:10 - 02:15:14:21
Speaker 1
Ten years.
02:15:15:01 - 02:15:15:22
Speaker 2
Ten years later?
02:15:15:23 - 02:15:17:24
Speaker 1
No. Or maybe seven.
02:15:18:01 - 02:15:18:16
Speaker 2
What job.
02:15:18:20 - 02:15:42:14
Speaker 1
I started? Well, I didn't want to go back to the bank. I had a moment. I went back and worked as an admin assistant for, like a few months somewhere. But I, after seeing what music was and knowing how I felt about it, I just couldn't find the love for that anymore. So then I kind of started, working for my brother.
02:15:42:14 - 02:15:56:07
Speaker 1
My brother was a sort of up and coming DJ. So I was like, oh, I can work at your record label. So I work with him for a few years, ended up taking on a small management role, actually songwriting and dance music.
02:15:56:09 - 02:16:00:04
Speaker 7
And directing music videos.
02:16:00:06 - 02:16:01:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, I guess, I mean, I.
02:16:01:13 - 02:16:02:17
Speaker 7
Was just.
02:16:02:19 - 02:16:25:03
Speaker 1
A bit of everything. I was very creative person, so I just kind of joined someone else's artistic project, I guess. And I did that for years. I really left my own music to join dance music. I'd seen vocals, trance music, vocals to and get money for rent. And obviously, like my self-esteem was not good because I really felt like a failure.
02:16:25:05 - 02:16:53:00
Speaker 1
My drinking substance use got worse and worse. And then living alone in London, late 20s and yeah, wasn't a very pretty sight. I then moved to Amsterdam, because I got evicted from London for being late on my rent, eating many times, moved to Amsterdam, and that's where, because of all the work I've done saying I called dance music, I got a little publishing deal.
02:16:53:02 - 02:16:53:16
Speaker 7
Yeah.
02:16:53:20 - 02:17:15:14
Speaker 1
And then they set me up with some sun lighting sessions. So I started to sunlight. And I met a guy called Jonas over in Amsterdam, and we happened to write a couple of hit records. That was something. Days, I guess. And I work really hard as a songwriter. And then a couple of those songs became hits.
02:17:15:14 - 02:17:47:07
Speaker 1
It takes years for songs to become hits and to be paid money. And three years in Amsterdam. The last year was terrible. That was when I decided I had to take a step back from the outside and says, moved to London and just go full time sunlight into, because I'm too old to be an artist. And then, I don't know, it just the fire started burning again, and I thought maybe I could do Rory.
02:17:47:09 - 02:18:09:06
Speaker 1
And that idea started to come about. And then I met you in 2020, and you were, like, really encouraging of me. You. Do you remember doing the artwork for my first single, covering the room in vinyl and taking the picture? It was all DIY. I needed the artwork, but uncomplicated made our living room into that black and white vinyl.
02:18:09:08 - 02:18:21:07
Speaker 1
So I had someone that loved me that was like on my team, I, I don't know, I guess you thought I loved it, I don't know.
02:18:21:09 - 02:18:30:05
Speaker 2
Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you needed help, like, you like just on logistical things really. And obviously we then started ADHD love together.
02:18:30:07 - 02:18:31:04
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:18:31:06 - 02:18:34:13
Speaker 2
A year later, I think, yeah, maybe less than a year later.
02:18:34:15 - 02:18:52:19
Speaker 1
When I joined TikTok as Rory, before we had engaged love and I was like, well, I'm going viral. I'm just in. It's so old. And then because of that, I think I was on it. So I was like, let's do this. So music really gave us every.
02:18:52:20 - 02:18:57:15
Speaker 2
Well, I was doing my 1 in 6, but I had like 50,000 followers.
02:18:57:17 - 02:18:59:03
Speaker 1
One, six. Oh, my Lord.
02:18:59:04 - 02:19:01:14
Speaker 7
I didn't even know. Yeah, what a.
02:19:01:17 - 02:19:03:19
Speaker 1
Pre-internet influencer era.
02:19:03:22 - 02:19:28:15
Speaker 7
So to to bring it back to real jobs and say, how have all of your experiences pre, what, 3536? Is there anything from those jobs that you've done that now impact ADHD level Rory or Adobe like presumably Richard Dobie like the management role you.
02:19:28:15 - 02:19:49:12
Speaker 2
Take on with that and the all of them. Yeah for all of it. Like you still are the manager of it. Yeah. Like, do you feel like those skills are transferable? Definitely. I think, because whether it's obviously creating videos is creating videos, but there's loads more to it. Whether it's building an outstanding podcast, managing the finances, the cash flow, all of that.
02:19:49:12 - 02:20:19:21
Speaker 2
I do all of that. And, you know, I think my experience in the bank, I think if you wanted to go into a creative industry, having worked in one now for six years, that skill is what's missing from a lot of people in this industry is just I don't know what like management, leadership, sensible financial decisions. Like that's what's missing is where's the business side of it isn't it.
02:20:19:21 - 02:20:22:05
Speaker 2
Right. Yeah.
02:20:22:07 - 02:20:36:14
Speaker 1
The operational side business is also risk taking. The idea that it's the operational side that's so many creative people just fall flat on and can actually get themselves in some pretty tight spots.
02:20:36:16 - 02:20:40:02
Speaker 2
So this when we started this episode. Oh sorry. You were going to say.
02:20:40:05 - 02:21:13:06
Speaker 1
Well, it just Max's question. Historical jobs have they helped I think like obviously I've made maybe I've made a fool of myself with my 59. I've had so many jobs, but like, I guess I know how to work hard. But sometimes for someone with ADHD is like question though you can have low self-esteem. I know how to work hard and I sometimes see creative people complaining about their job and how hard it is.
02:21:13:07 - 02:21:33:01
Speaker 1
I'm just like, go and work in a fish and chip shop, or go and be in the freezer at Iceland like this is this is not hard. Yeah, it's not to say being a music artist is not without stress. Their stress, but it's chosen stress. It's fun. Stress. And even compared to service industry, let's look at other jobs like teaching or nursing.
02:21:33:03 - 02:22:06:07
Speaker 1
I just I don't know, I feel like incredibly privileged. Privileged. Yeah. Lucky. And like every single wrong turn was actually a right turn. And I think for me, like, not even writing those songs until 24 or getting dropped and completely leaving it at 30 and then coming back at late 30s, like, it's so important just to say that just because you've job hopped or quit, or being tired or trying to get customer, you can still end up exactly where you're meant to be in your dream job.
02:22:06:09 - 02:22:18:12
Speaker 2
And also your dream job doesn't have to be a single job like your job. Now you're a creative director. You're a graphic designer for your post on Instagram, you're a video editor, but you do. I need. I need.
02:22:18:17 - 02:22:24:20
Speaker 1
Loads of jobs to keep myself stimulated. What are you going to say?
02:22:24:20 - 02:22:45:19
Speaker 2
So I was going to say to try and get it to a close when we started this episode. Oh yeah, we started so thinking I would, we would like to people not to feel shame. I don't know whether we've done that. We've just sort of blurted out what we've done over the last 25 years.
02:22:45:21 - 02:22:56:13
Speaker 1
Isn't sharing the different journeys I hope to show people it's okay to not know or to be messy, to stay somewhere 20 years, to have 20 jobs in 20 years.
02:22:56:15 - 02:22:57:03
Speaker 2
Yeah.
02:22:57:06 - 02:23:04:12
Speaker 1
Every journey looks different, but it might be picking up very valuable pieces of the puzzle to where you're going to end up.
02:23:04:18 - 02:23:11:17
Speaker 2
It's true. Mine would be as well. It's never too late like I had. I didn't even use social media there.
02:23:11:19 - 02:23:25:15
Speaker 1
But I do remember maybe this is a lovely place to end the for any of it. You were a non internet Burton at six Instagram posts and they were very like dad bod era.
02:23:25:17 - 02:23:26:14
Speaker 2
Dad bod is.
02:23:26:15 - 02:23:46:14
Speaker 1
Like I know what I mean by that. Dad bod era. He has like a dad haircut like a dad. It was just all dad really sweet. But you weren't an internet person at all. No, but you told me at the beginning, because obviously you you had to go into the bank to provide, say there wasn't really any time in your life for dreams.
02:23:46:19 - 02:23:58:19
Speaker 1
You went from your mom's house to becoming a dad, and you said that you did have a dream when you were younger. You know, I know it sounds silly, but I always wanted to be done. I don't remember saying that.
02:23:58:20 - 02:23:59:01
Speaker 2
Do you.
02:23:59:01 - 02:24:20:14
Speaker 1
Remember, like, friendly television presenter. Now, I'm not saying you're done, but you show up on people's screens, little, little ones and certainly wouldn't be paid as much. But you've kind of found a way back to the very old tree, which was, I don't know, being a sort of friendly face on the internet.
02:24:20:15 - 02:24:27:10
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. That's interesting. I also said to you, I would, I would like to run my own business, but I don't have any ideas.
02:24:27:12 - 02:24:28:22
Speaker 1
Hello?
02:24:28:24 - 02:24:44:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. I have one more thing. Come on. More question. When and how do you know when it's time to quit and start a new thing? Like where? When did you realize this is the end of my tether? Like I need to get out of this thing.
02:24:44:15 - 02:24:46:07
Speaker 1
You go first because you were hit 20.
02:24:46:09 - 02:25:09:23
Speaker 2
And how did how do you explain that? Like, because I'm sure there's so many people listening who are in that position where it's like, I've been here for ten years, for five years and I'm sick of it. I mean, I don't think there's a right answer to it because I think we're completely different. Like, I would never have left the bank unless I there was a really structured plan around what I was going to do next and whether I would be whether it was financially viable.
02:25:09:23 - 02:25:29:14
Speaker 2
So I took a year out of the bank before actually leaving, and I made sure I had enough money to last me. That year we had the book on its way, so like everything was stacked with me that it would work. And it did. But not necessarily. That's not necessarily a right thing. Some people just leave and then figure it out later.
02:25:29:17 - 02:25:35:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, that was me. I just like vibe and I'm like, oh, fish and chips. That's fun. That's enclosure. Fancy the pub?
02:25:35:16 - 02:25:36:08
Speaker 2
Yeah.
02:25:36:10 - 02:25:37:10
Speaker 1
To be in a train.
02:25:37:12 - 02:25:43:17
Speaker 2
I think the difference is though, is that I had not just me. I had kids to find out.
02:25:43:19 - 02:25:56:14
Speaker 1
That's so different. Different. And I think that's so important. And what you did actually you sacrificed for a young family and that's, incredibly amazing was I didn't have that. I was able to just.
02:25:56:17 - 02:26:00:22
Speaker 2
If you survived, that was okay. Like, do you know what I mean? You just did. So yeah.
02:26:01:03 - 02:26:33:03
Speaker 1
Just about survive. But yeah, I'd say I'm a big believer in I don't know that like burning desire in you to start or do something awesome. I just believe in doing awesome things with this one life. Maybe that's a slightly entrepreneurial spirit, and I've always had that. If you go back to helping hands, and if you've got that in your soul to do anything within your power to bring it to life and to know that it might change, it might grow, it might fail, but you'll learn, you'll be okay.
02:26:33:05 - 02:26:42:09
Speaker 1
And there's so much that can be learned from just doing it and taking brave steps. And yeah, taking risks if you can calculate the risks.
02:26:42:11 - 02:26:43:04
Speaker 2
Let's end it there.
02:26:43:05 - 02:26:46:16
Speaker 1
I think I feel like I know loads more about you.
02:26:46:18 - 02:26:47:16
Speaker 2
You knew everything.
02:26:47:17 - 02:26:49:12
Speaker 1
No, no. Not everything.
02:26:49:14 - 02:26:50:10
Speaker 2
What? Didn't you know?
02:26:50:13 - 02:26:51:23
Speaker 1
I didn't know about Lance.
02:26:52:03 - 02:26:52:20
Speaker 2
Oh, what?
02:26:52:22 - 02:27:03:01
Speaker 1
That is just really cute. I didn't know the age you were from. Like Sainsbury's to the bank. And where, say, wasn't there? I just love him.
02:27:03:03 - 02:27:17:03
Speaker 2
Okay, well, if you've liked today, if it's given you some hope or certainly hopefully made you feel less shame, give us a like, subscribe, follow, do all of the things they really help. But other than that, we will see you next week.
02:27:17:04 - 02:27:25:17
Speaker 1
In lesson I decided to go into like trading again don't worry, I.
02:27:25:19 - 02:27:30:00
Speaker 2
Thought. I don't know about that one. I think I.
02:27:30:02 - 02:27:34:16
Speaker 1
I really interested because it was a full. It was more like a normal pucker.

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