# How Rachael Tachie-Menson Went From Amazon & Facebook to Building Tech for Africa

An episode of [The Peswa Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1781537541), 1 Feb 2026, 1 h 09 min.

Audio: https://anchor.fm/s/110e1ce70/podcast/play/117753094/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2026-2-31%2F421135848-44100-1-37899dc727393305.mp3

Send a text In this episode, we sit down with Rachael Tachie-Menson — product strategist, tech leader, and founder of Author Digital Labs. Rachael walks us through her remarkable journey from shaping products at Amazon and Facebook to leading product teams at WeWork, and ultimately founding a studio that helps African founders build apps that tackle real problems across the continent. 🚀 We dive into how early experiences in global tech shaped her approach to building products for scale — and why she believes the future of African innovation lies in context-aware design and sustainable business models. 🔍 Rachael also reveals the business side of creating tech solutions for Africa: how to validate ideas, build revenue models, retain users, and attract investment — all while solving problems that matter. Whether you’re a founder, product builder, or tech enthusiast, this conversation is packed with practical insights and inspiring lessons from one of Africa’s rising leaders in tech Simplify cross-border payments with WeWire — the smarter way for businesses to send and receive payments in local and international currencies across 80+ countries. Empower your business with fast, secure, and seamless global transactions. 🔗 Start today at WeWire.com Click the link below to support the show—every bit of support goes straight into helping us create even better content, reach more people, and share more incredible conversations. Support the show (click here) -- https://www.buzzsprout.com/2423582/support 📩 Connect with us: • Follow Bill on Instagram: @billcobbinah • Follow us on all socials: @thepeswa 📢 Subscribe The Peswa on all Platforms: https://linktr.ee/thepeswa Get access to amazing royalty-free music for your projects — sign up for an Uppbeat account using the referral link: https://share.uppbeat.io/cy9fcqqxj4tg Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more conversations like this! The Fresh Patch Podcast - Where Good Pets Get It. Welcome to the Fresh Patch Podcast where we talk about everything, from dog... Listen on: Apple Podcasts Support the show

## Transcript

[0:00] I don't take this for granted. I had had the benefit of working
[0:02] at, you know, these large incredible company, not walking
[0:05] next to like Zuckerberg on a Monday morning and having a
[0:08] chat. You know, like that kind of
[0:09] thing doesn't happen for everybody.
[0:11] So after Facebook, I worked at Amazon.
[0:13] I mean, it was like a fantastic experience just being a software
[0:16] engineer in a company within tech.
[0:18] I like to think about retention. I'll break it down a bit.
[0:21] You built an application, you have people downloading the
[0:23] application, they use it and they go away.
[0:26] You have a project, you don't have a product.
[0:28] So what is it about your app that will make people come in,
[0:32] stick around and keep coming and keep coming?
[0:34] Spend money, spend money. That's your test right there.
[0:38] Spend money. So that's what inspired me to
[0:40] start Author Digital Labs because I realized that in
[0:43] Ghana, having those conversations with people, you
[0:45] see the light bulbs going off and that's kind of the magic of
[0:48] it, right? It's not actually building the
[0:49] apps. Yes, we do that.
[0:50] We'll build apps, we'll design, we'll redesign.
[0:53] The part I enjoy most is actually having that connection
[0:56] with the founder and making them realize that you're really truly
[0:59] building a business. I see.
[1:00] It's not just I have an app, it's so much more than that.
[1:03] It's strategy, but I think vision is also grounded in
[1:05] reality and being able to kind of take people with you on a
[1:08] journey through what's possible. Painting the picture in such a
[1:11] way that people can grasp vision and run with it right and
[1:14] actually do practical things with it.
[1:16] I think that kind of translates to what people I think to a
[1:19] certain degree, accusing Chroma for saying that he was a
[1:21] visually related leader, but then he wasn't grounded in the
[1:25] full context of the situation of his time.
[1:28] See the difference between someone liking from my an human
[1:32] from me is I think there's some grounding in reality.
[1:35] We still have things we can point to today that he did for
[1:38] this country and are still servicing us today.
[1:41] I mean how mind blowing is that? The impact I wasn't hard on you,
[1:44] the cause of year it is why the major takeaways for you.
[1:54] Hi friends, so excited to see you.
[1:57] It's a new year, 2026. I don't have much to say, just
[2:03] that be audacious this year. Just be audacious this year.
[2:08] Life is happening. Whatever you're thinking about
[2:09] doing, just do it. We don't have a lot of time
[2:13] here. And so I really hope you have
[2:16] fun this year. I hope you enjoy the year,
[2:20] whatever that happens to you. Just be grateful for life, you
[2:23] know that. Do you have the ability to be a
[2:26] human being who is conscious, to be angry and frustrated and
[2:29] happy and sad? The real gift is that you get to
[2:34] experience all this. Don't forget that this year and
[2:37] our mantra remains to just build something.
[2:42] We will do things this year. We will build things this year
[2:44] and so and we will have fun doing so.
[2:47] The conversation about to listen to is with Rahel Rahel Rachel
[2:52] teaching man teaching Manson. She's the CEO for author digital
[2:56] labs. And I said that Rahel Rachel for
[2:59] a reason. You understand soon and it's
[3:02] essentially a studio that helps found this or business leaders
[3:06] just think through their journey with like building products.
[3:10] So with strategy, with tech and she's had like an extensive
[3:14] career that we could pick on. And so I really hope you enjoyed
[3:18] the conversation as much as I did.
[3:20] This conversation was as natural and spontaneous as it goes.
[3:23] Typically, you know, I'd come with like my notes with a couple
[3:25] of notes shutting things down, but it wasn't the case.
[3:27] This one on this one. So have fun and just do
[3:31] something a health that you mention Rachel, Rachel you don't
[3:35] see Rachel is Rachel. It's spelled Rachel.
[3:40] I don't know. A lot of Ghanaians always call
[3:43] me R. ECGO.
[3:45] AELI don't know why my parents spelled it like that.
[3:47] Like Michael? Michael yes.
[3:49] I thought I'd be like Rael. But wait, so the Bible, the
[3:53] Bible, how do you spell it? I think it's just RACH, but the
[3:57] name is actually the real name. Is the Israeli like the Jewish
[4:03] name name? The Hebrew name, I'm sorry, is,
[4:07] I think it's RA. It's it's it's something not
[4:12] you've. Gone down there.
[4:12] It's like Rahel, but you've gone down the Rabbitoh with your
[4:14] name. I know.
[4:15] Oh, I have, Because I'm like, why do people say Rahel?
[4:18] But it's a name? I mean, I think it's the
[4:20] original racial. What does it mean?
[4:23] It means you were a female lamb. Female lamb?
[4:27] Yeah, lamb. Like the animal lamb.
[4:30] Yeah. Why would anybody pick that as a
[4:33] name? I don't know to ask my parents,
[4:37] but I think I mean the other that the connotations of the
[4:40] name are like countenance, beauty.
[4:43] Meekness. I haven't seen that, but I guess
[4:47] it's in the family of words, if you will.
[4:49] Because I'm assuming like a female lamb because they
[4:52] typically people name pure James or OK cool.
[4:56] Yeah, that kind of thing. And then of course, obviously
[4:58] there's the woman in the Bible. I think that was more the
[5:01] inspiration. Jacob's wife.
[5:04] Jacob's wife. What's really remarkable about
[5:08] Rahel? Rahel.
[5:11] I'm confused. Rachel.
[5:13] Rachel. What did I say, Rachel?
[5:16] Rachel, that's my name. But then what in the Bible is
[5:18] he? Is he Rachel or Rahel?
[5:20] People say Rachel, Rachel. Like in English, if you're in a
[5:23] church and you're listening to the Bible, they'll say Rachel.
[5:26] But in Hebrew, it's it's someday.
[5:28] It's Rahel. I think.
[5:29] Rachel. Yeah.
[5:32] I mean, I tried being the favorite of Jacob, gave it to
[5:35] Joseph and Benjamin. Nothing really much about her.
[5:42] Yeah. I mean, well, she was the reason
[5:45] the man would leave it for, what, 40 years?
[5:48] Yeah. OK.
[5:52] So again, I don't know why. Were you in Canada?
[5:54] I was. OK.
[5:57] And then you ended up in Stanford.
[5:59] I did. Are we recording?
[6:01] Yeah, the competition's already started.
[6:03] That's crazy. I didn't.
[6:07] Get a heads up, but thank you, OK.
[6:12] I don't know, People are always surprised when we say oh, the
[6:16] competition's already happening. So yeah.
[6:19] So you ended up in Stanford. Yep.
[6:22] One reason Ghana, where I. Was raised here in Ghana but I
[6:25] was born in the Uki moved here when I was about 3 years old.
[6:29] OK, lived here, went to Christ the King, then GIS, and then
[6:36] ended up at Stanford. Yeah.
[6:39] Quality education. Yeah.
[6:41] Quality education. Yeah, it's up to you.
[6:45] My dad tried. What's your daddy?
[6:47] What's he? Into so he was basically
[6:51] entrepreneurial. I did a number of different
[6:54] ventures. So was in like the event space
[6:58] for a while, the restaurant space for a while, even in
[7:01] security, so. Security OK there will be off
[7:08] rather rub off on you in any way.
[7:09] Would you say so? I think being around somebody
[7:13] who's, you know, being entrepreneurial does rub off on
[7:18] you. You know, having to pick up
[7:20] things like, for example, when the rental business was was, you
[7:24] know, at its peak, I was, you know, taking orders at like 8
[7:28] years old on the phone or, you know, taking payments, writing
[7:32] invoices, that kind of thing. Wow.
[7:34] Yeah. So it was just kind of a normal.
[7:37] I didn't even think of it as really anything.
[7:39] It was just a normal part of life.
[7:41] And so if you're looking to move money as a local merchants to
[7:45] your supplies or just move money as a as a local business to
[7:49] anywhere in the world without a lot of bureaucracy, we would
[7:53] recommend our partners we wire we wire as a cross-border B to B
[7:58] payment platform. And so as we have vowed to bring
[8:02] you the great resources for you to build world class businesses.
[8:06] Be well and treat you to check out B wire.com right.
[8:09] Thank you. What's made you you now like the
[8:12] thing that we could take now and we take care.
[8:14] I have a belief that above a conviction that a big part of
[8:17] who you are now stems from like these underpinnings growing up.
[8:22] I agree. Right.
[8:23] For example, I'm reading a $2.00 book now, making a big.
[8:25] He's talking about how when he was around the same age, it's 9
[8:30] because that encouraged him to be, you know, entrepreneur.
[8:32] And he started clipping the news of visitors who come home and he
[8:37] was invoicing and he reports his dad and, you know, taking
[8:41] account, you know, two years now.
[8:43] Yeah, so kind. Of yeah, yeah, yeah.
[8:49] And your mom? My mom passed away when I was
[8:52] very young. So sorry about that.
[8:53] Yeah, OK, so mostly raised by my dad and his family, his parents.
[8:58] OK, so you go to Christ the King GIS and end up in Stanford.
[9:05] What you say that, Stanford? Computer Science.
[9:08] Just what was the goal? What was he trying to do?
[9:10] What he trying to do? I don't know.
[9:13] For Stanford it was, you know, it was really just like an
[9:15] exciting place to be. So I got there with like no
[9:18] real, you know, I wasn't like attached to anything.
[9:23] I was just like very, very curious.
[9:24] Like I was a learner and it was just exciting to be around like
[9:27] where I, where and I, I was and I am a learner and I don't know,
[9:35] I, it was just for me was just an exciting time to just like be
[9:39] curious, like academically. And also, it was like the first
[9:44] time in my life where I was like around a lot of smart people
[9:47] all, you know, at the same time who actually liked to have fun,
[9:51] who didn't have like big egos, weren't eager to tell everybody
[9:55] that they went to Stanford, you know, that kind of thing.
[9:57] So it was like, wow, these are like my people.
[10:01] So it was more about, you know, having like a great experience
[10:04] and then just organically finding my way to like what
[10:08] clicked. So initially I thought, OK,
[10:11] maybe chemistry is I really liked chemistry in high school,
[10:15] excelled at it, but then decided not quite my thing.
[10:20] Then doubled in electrical for a while, decided not quite my
[10:24] thing, a little too sort of tactical, tactile for me.
[10:29] And then somehow found my way to like, you know, computer
[10:32] science, which was like, wow, OK, you can, you know, be
[10:39] presented with a problem and with a few lines of code solve
[10:44] that problem. And so it was like this like
[10:46] crazy combination of like mathematics and problem solving,
[10:50] critical thinking, yeah, things that I value, but then also
[10:54] thinking about like the human elements of it.
[10:56] So like, how does this impact people at the end of the day?
[10:59] Like what makes this useful to people?
[11:02] So there's kind of a social elements as well to it.
[11:05] I just found that very like. Let me see.
[11:07] Make a lesson, sick girl put inside myself what you do now
[11:11] with other labs, you know, but then your that transition of
[11:18] yours kind of reminds me a little of myself to Senior High
[11:21] School. I like chemistry a lot like I
[11:24] really like there. We set all the chemistry.
[11:27] I was in Senior High School. I thought I was going to be, I
[11:30] used to make this, tell my friends that I probably will win
[11:34] a Nobel Prize in chemistry. I was that good.
[11:39] So exciting. Yeah.
[11:41] And so I think when I decided to go to uni, maybe just to
[11:47] chemistry, was like chemistry on that, from chemistry, natural
[11:51] chemistry, mathematics. My uncle came out.
[11:54] I was like, oh, you know, in Ghana you do chemistry like they
[11:58] have to try and, you know, do something professional.
[12:01] If you like chemistry, you can do engineering and chemical
[12:03] engineering and you can make money.
[12:05] And, you know, Ghana has discovered gas oil.
[12:08] Yeah, so, but I think what I'm trying to drive at is that you
[12:12] had a, because of where you were, you had a chance to try
[12:15] it. It is not what I really want
[12:16] that you will do. Because when I go to uni and I
[12:19] was doing this thing, I was advised to consider, I don't
[12:22] like this to go to a point where I was actually just randomly
[12:26] going to other lectures because it's in a political science
[12:29] class. Just listen to them talk or
[12:30] mathematics. I just go listen to them talk.
[12:32] But you know, in Ghana you can't transition like that.
[12:34] You can't. You don't have the chance to
[12:35] pick and choose when you're in, you're in to you go explore and
[12:39] then you come back to your the class you do like you're sitting
[12:42] there and then go to your dad. Yeah, I mean, I I know Ashesi
[12:46] brings some of that into Ghana, right?
[12:49] This system of like liberal arts that values critical thinking,
[12:54] exploration and all of those things.
[12:56] So that was, you know, built into the foundation of the
[12:59] school. The idea is that you come to
[13:01] college to like, you know, become an adult and find you're
[13:05] calling, so to speak. So everything in the experience
[13:09] is designed to, you know, support that journey.
[13:12] Of course, you have to make decisions at some point.
[13:14] That's also why, you know, university.
[13:16] There's four years versus 3 in some countries.
[13:19] Yeah. To give you the time to explore.
[13:22] To get things out, yeah, there's a need for some sort of major
[13:26] education reform in our country. Understand why it is the way it
[13:29] is, but there's a need for reform moving forward.
[13:32] Calling. You said something about
[13:33] calling. Do you believe in that, that
[13:35] it's a colleague for an adult? Like so you you made a certain
[13:38] colleague. Yeah, I think, I think God
[13:40] gives, you know, each of us gifts and I think it's our job
[13:44] to kind of one, identify what those are, embrace them.
[13:50] That can be a process. Sometimes it's not, you know,
[13:53] oh, this is my gift and I want to, you know, do this thing
[13:56] because we have all these pressures around us that might,
[13:59] you know, be telling us do one thing or another.
[14:03] And then there's the kind of manifestation of that, right?
[14:05] So once you've embraced it, what do you do with it?
[14:09] Like, how does it manifest itself in in your life?
[14:13] So you do. So that you have a very heavy
[14:18] Christian independence. So what happened if that
[14:24] computer science we. Have to have to computer
[14:28] science. Well, didn't really, I wouldn't
[14:31] say after. So during, you know, my time at
[14:34] Stanford, I had my first day. I I interned with a really
[14:39] interesting British professor who believed I had a good
[14:42] education because I had done O levels and a levels assistant.
[14:47] He was used to. So he took me on as an intern my
[14:50] first day in electrical engineering.
[14:52] But after that, once I switched over into my interest in
[14:55] computer science, I worked at Amazon as an intern.
[14:59] This was back in the day when the core of the business was,
[15:02] you know, books and CDs were still around and, you know.
[15:10] Your age is showing. My age is showing.
[15:12] I'll just say I'm a very middle of the way millennial for those
[15:17] who are trying to get. But yeah, so that was a
[15:20] fascinating experience, just like being on the ground, seeing
[15:23] how, you know, Amazon was like, I, I didn't, I didn't
[15:27] necessarily appreciate it to be what it was back then.
[15:29] But I mean, it was like a fantastic experience just being
[15:32] a software engineer in a company when I was with like 17 or
[15:37] something. Sorry, not 1719.
[15:40] Yeah, I went back there for a second internship because I
[15:44] liked it that much. This was in Seattle, by the way.
[15:48] How big was it? How big was the team at the
[15:50] time? The time, you know, it's hard to
[15:52] say. There were I think 2 campuses,
[15:55] OK. And now they have, you know,
[15:56] offices all over the States and even, you know, in other
[15:59] countries. But at the time there were
[16:02] really just two offices that were charting between and
[16:04] fulfilment centre. So like warehouses where all the
[16:09] stuff would sit. And then as an intern, you got
[16:12] to sort of experiment with new products.
[16:14] So when Amazon Prime was new, you know, it was like, OK,
[16:19] interns, let's try it out and let's send you something and let
[16:23] us know what you think about the product.
[16:26] But yeah, size wise I can't quite see.
[16:29] Yeah, because I'm asking that because I'm just trying to
[16:32] understand the impact Amazon had on you.
[16:36] You know, the culture, you know, LEDs, LEDs and the culture of
[16:40] the LEDs. You know what?
[16:41] What are the major takeaways for you?
[16:47] Because I'm going to interrupt your feed for a bit, please, you
[16:49] should subscribe back in there. It goes a long way to help us as
[16:52] a team. And so kindly just say that for
[16:54] us. Thank you.
[16:56] Let's see, I think well, for one, being like, you know,
[17:03] somebody from Ghana and stepping into like a place where like
[17:06] things are just moving very, very fast.
[17:08] It was very eye opening and like, I think a tangible way to
[17:11] for me to experience, you know, what's possible within
[17:15] technology. It's not just, you know, people
[17:19] sitting as a computer, but you know, kind of the marrying of
[17:24] software with like in real life experiences.
[17:27] So for me, that was sort of my first like my foray into like
[17:32] understanding, OK, this is how technology sits nicely within
[17:36] like a real business that actually delivers value to
[17:39] people. So I think being around that was
[17:43] just like, OK, this is actually a thing that you can do and a
[17:48] meaningful way to bring technology to people.
[17:51] And that sort of stayed with me throughout my career.
[17:54] Just not just building to build, but building to actually solve
[17:58] like real things. I think being around people who
[18:02] are actually diligent, like it was probably the first time in
[18:05] my life, like seeing people kind of hack away through like the
[18:07] nights, you know, just to solve a problem to to present to like,
[18:12] you know, the CEO the next day. But it was like real software
[18:15] building, not just like hacking a deck together, right?
[18:18] It's like I actually have to build a demo that I need to
[18:22] present to, you know, Bezos tomorrow and you, the intern,
[18:26] you're going to help me do this through the night tonight.
[18:29] And we'll do whatever we need to do to get it done, get some
[18:32] snacks, you know, have chats. But like, we're going to crank
[18:35] and, like, do this. Yeah.
[18:39] So. That's exciting.
[18:41] It was. I think for me, what you told me
[18:43] so far, it kind of mirrors why you decided to even consider
[18:46] computer science from all the options you had to interface
[18:50] with, right? And the fact that you got to
[18:54] code do make the abstract with the real right what you said and
[19:01] now you get to have that in where you're working do your
[19:03] internship. Yeah, exactly.
[19:07] So that is why he came back for a second intention.
[19:10] Yeah, basically I said the question yourself.
[19:12] So yeah, I mean, I went back this time I was more so in like
[19:17] a forward facing, you know, group.
[19:20] I was working on personalization.
[19:22] So the whole problem space was just around how do you detect,
[19:26] you know, fraudulent things when people are trying to use Amazon
[19:30] to promote scams. So how do you detect those
[19:33] things? What category should we look at
[19:36] and doing that with software specifically, right.
[19:39] So I think that even though I liked Amazon at the time, they
[19:45] didn't actually have offices, as I mentioned outside of Seattle.
[19:47] Seattle was very really cold, dry place in terms of, you know,
[19:53] social life and all of that. And so I thought I want to stay
[19:56] in within Silicon Valley. So got an opportunity at Yahoo.
[20:01] Started my software career there after I graduated from Stanford.
[20:06] And then from there, it was basically a company of the
[20:09] company just really exploring kind of different surfaces, you
[20:13] know, different types of applications and then also
[20:17] making the transition from software engineering into
[20:20] product management. So rather than being sort of one
[20:24] of the people that's actually doing the building, I can move
[20:27] in beyond that and, you know, driving like, OK, these are the
[20:30] features we'll build. And as my career would progress,
[20:33] that would be this is the vision for, you know, this group or
[20:38] this is these are the products that we believe will actually
[20:40] drive our company forward from a revenue perspective.
[20:43] And then leading people having those conversations with like,
[20:47] you know, management of the company, be that the CEO or the
[20:50] VP of product. Yeah.
[20:52] So it's evolved immensely. I went to LinkedIn, went to
[20:56] Meta. I went to grad school for a
[20:58] while, two years, Northwestern Kellogg.
[21:03] So I did a dual degree there in design, innovation, engineering
[21:09] and then my MBA. So for me that was like a
[21:13] rounding out experience. I've been very deep in software
[21:16] and products, but when it came to questions about, OK, how does
[21:20] this actually further the business, you know, from a
[21:22] revenue perspective, can we think about marketing or finance
[21:25] or, you know, the accounting aspects of this?
[21:29] I wasn't necessarily like apartment to do that.
[21:31] So I thought taking a break, but also having fun, taking a break,
[21:34] right? MBA in the US are are quite fun.
[21:38] I think in other places as well. But I can speak to, you know, my
[21:41] experience, did a lot of travel during that time, but also, you
[21:46] know, learnt to be a better, you know, business leader and kind
[21:52] of honed in on some of their design aspects as well of, of
[21:55] tech, which, you know, we can get to.
[21:58] But that is also pretty critical when you're trying to build
[22:02] something that people will use and really like.
[22:05] Yeah. So what point did you guys come
[22:08] back to Ghana then? Good question.
[22:12] So after Facebook, I did a stint at Wework, which I'm sure you
[22:15] want to touch on. Oh yeah.
[22:18] I said like a product leader. Work.
[22:21] Yeah. So I was a.
[22:23] New man, very interesting man. Yeah, Group product manager and
[22:28] then became a director there. So spent about 3 1/2 years when
[22:35] I got there. Newman was there, but he left,
[22:38] as you know, after the attempts at IPO.
[22:41] And then the company sort of, you know, went through a series
[22:44] of different attempts to, you know, rebrand, reshape, put new
[22:50] products in the market. So it was actually a really
[22:52] exciting time for those of us who actually stuck around also.
[22:57] Good. Like the various attempts and
[22:59] experiments or? Yeah.
[23:01] I think for me that's sort of way like I thrive, you know,
[23:04] just like in their creative, innovative space, it's like if
[23:08] there's an opportunity to do that.
[23:09] Do new things. Yeah, it really speaks to me.
[23:13] So, you know, there was this kind of, I would say just a, an
[23:22] interesting energy around, OK, now we have a new charge.
[23:25] We have a new charge, right? We have a new, new leadership.
[23:29] We have new problems like COVID, you know, how do you recover,
[23:34] you know, vacancies in 800 locations around the world
[23:41] through software, right? Like big questions like that
[23:46] that were being posed to each team, a real estate team, a
[23:50] product team that I was a part of.
[23:52] So through that, you know, worked with a number of people
[23:56] to figure out how to solve that. And it was, it was, it was
[23:59] exciting, like figuring out, OK, this is maybe there's a
[24:03] different type of application we can put out there that brings in
[24:05] a net new type of client. Right up until the point that I
[24:11] started there, the bread and butter of the company was long
[24:15] term leases, you know, for people.
[24:18] So basically sub leasing space and then people using the app to
[24:22] book rooms because they have a lease within the space.
[24:26] Suddenly COVID destroyed that, right?
[24:28] Nobody was coming to the office. It was empty.
[24:30] As I can see, it was down tremendously.
[24:33] And so the question became, OK, how do we recover that?
[24:37] Maybe through something new so that through that the team, you
[24:41] know, we came up with this concept of just had like a brain
[24:49] fart. We came up with this concept of
[24:53] like 1 like basically daily bookings and hourly bookings.
[25:00] So it might not sound novel, but like there was no infrastructure
[25:02] to support that. So I knew app had to be built
[25:04] for that to move quickly to, you know, basically capitalize on
[25:09] the yeah, on the momentum around that and bring in, you know, the
[25:13] types of people that would want to, you know, maybe work for my,
[25:16] we work three times a week because, you know, it's noisy at
[25:19] home and the kids are making noise in the background or
[25:22] whatever. So, yeah, exciting time.
[25:25] And then moving into more of like franchise and SAS, you
[25:29] know, applications and stuff like that.
[25:32] We, we, we it's a very interesting phenomenon for a
[25:36] company. A lot of lessons.
[25:41] It's kind of right checkered. Adam Newman has to give very
[25:44] checkered legacy with regards to his work as we.
[25:46] I mean, everybody has their opinions as to what happened
[25:51] and, you know, was he to lost in vision or, you know, didn't, you
[25:59] know, balance vision with resources?
[26:02] Well, or. But I want to understand me.
[26:04] You were there in like the crux of it all.
[26:09] Major takeaways from your experience with me, particularly
[26:14] during a new Adam Adam's time. Yeah.
[26:18] Yeah, I'm so just to be clear, I only overlapped with him for a
[26:23] period of maybe four months. Oh, OK.
[26:26] Yeah. My last experience of him was
[26:28] being part of a an all hands that usually would be programmed
[26:33] for like an hour, but it had gone on for about 3 or 4 hours.
[26:37] I wasn't quite sure what was going on, but it was clear to me
[26:40] that there was something, you know, not quite right.
[26:45] And, you know, colleagues were sort of, you know, all these
[26:47] murmurs and always about it. I think, though, in that short,
[26:52] you know, amount of time, and I think this is honestly thread
[26:59] for even just career for me, it's it's a few things like I
[27:11] think being visionary is not necessarily, you know, getting
[27:14] on a stage and saying, you know, a bunch of things that get
[27:17] people super excited. I think that's part of it.
[27:21] But I think vision is also grounded in reality and being
[27:25] able to kind of take people with you on a journey through what's
[27:29] possible. I'm making making very clear,
[27:31] painting the picture in such a way that people can grasp, you
[27:34] know, vision and and run with it, right, and actually do
[27:38] practical things with it. So it's not fluff.
[27:41] It's not, you know, big words and charm.
[27:44] It's part of it, but it's not everything.
[27:48] So with that, you know, I think, yeah, I don't know.
[27:57] I think there's, I think that honestly is like one of the
[28:00] biggest things just because I think a lot of people were
[28:03] holding onto vision. Even when I was coming into the
[28:06] company. It was just selling, selling,
[28:08] selling. I mean, they spent so much just
[28:12] trying to get me to come into the company more than any place
[28:16] I'd ever experienced and on the totem pole of, you know,
[28:20] companies that I work for. It was interesting.
[28:22] Like, OK, this is an interesting balance of like spend and, you
[28:27] know, just all the wow and energy.
[28:30] But really, like the product is like at its core, it's a, you
[28:35] know, a leasing product with apps to support it.
[28:39] And so yes, somehow it was very powerful.
[28:42] Like people really bought into it.
[28:43] But at the end of the day, a lot of people walked away with not
[28:47] too much to show for it. Like from a financial
[28:50] perspective, from a definitely, I mean a career, it makes for a
[28:54] great story. But yeah, I think there's
[28:57] there's something about that just being cautious about
[29:01] visionary, but not necessarily grounded in like practice and
[29:04] like truth. Yeah.
[29:08] I think that kind of translates to what people, I think to a
[29:12] certain degree accused in Chroma for saying that he was a
[29:16] visionary leader, but then he wasn't grounded in the full
[29:21] context of the situation of his time.
[29:25] And so, well, we'll see you. Think so those.
[29:30] Are people were see people are seeing that like that's what
[29:32] he's been accused of. You see the difference between
[29:35] someone like Anchorma and and human from me is similar what I
[29:40] was trying to say just now, which was I think there's some
[29:42] grounding in reality. We still have things we can
[29:45] point to today that he did for this country and are still
[29:49] servicing us today. I mean, how mind blowing is that
[29:53] that we still depend on the damn, you know, that that Tema
[30:00] motorway is still what it was when it was built, has not been
[30:03] touched since, at least as far as I know.
[30:05] That is incredible. I mean, say what you will about
[30:09] the man, but you can't discredit, you know, that
[30:11] there's real tangible evidence of things that were were done
[30:16] for us, right as a country, undeniable, right.
[30:19] So I don't know. I brought you in Chroma dynamic
[30:22] because you answered the question or why you came back to
[30:25] Ghana. Oh yes.
[30:26] And giving your background as someone who, someone who is very
[30:34] excited about problem solving and what's it called problem
[30:40] solving and reality and how they abstract ideas and theories can
[30:46] measure people's situation. I feel, I feel like maybe that
[30:50] kind of informed your move back together.
[30:53] Because I mean, there's, there's a ton of problems where we are
[30:56] that can be, you know, dealt with software to a certain
[30:58] degree. Or do you think that that's like
[31:00] played a role? Yeah, I mean, you know, people
[31:03] ask me about this all the time. Ghana is home for me, right?
[31:06] So there's a grounding that I feel and I have when I'm here.
[31:09] And so it got to a point in my career where I was thinking
[31:12] about what, what that could look like if I would, if I did come
[31:17] back home, what would that look like while staying true to, you
[31:22] know, my, my interests, right? And I actually attempted to do
[31:29] this in 2014. That was actually a very
[31:32] exciting time. What brought me back actually
[31:36] was an event that I basically spearheaded.
[31:40] It was like a three day boot camp on the Lean, lean startup
[31:44] machine. So I partnered with a bunch of.
[31:46] These are the book. Yes, based on the book, but
[31:50] partnered with a company in the US that was doing boot camps in
[31:53] different cities in the US and I thought why not bring it to
[31:57] Accra? So looked for who the tech
[32:00] people were. And that was actually for me, my
[32:03] entry point into the tech scene here.
[32:06] And I don't know if you can imagine this, but at the time we
[32:09] didn't have Momo, We didn't have, you know, this fintech
[32:14] energetic, you know, startup scheme that we now have those
[32:19] Ogs. Those people are actually very
[32:23] much some of the people that made, you know, laid the
[32:28] foundation for the ecosystem that we have right now in Ghana.
[32:31] So imagine in 2014 you just have a bunch of really curious
[32:35] engineers, people are interested in building businesses.
[32:39] So what I did is basically gathered them all in a room, got
[32:43] a bunch of, you know, folks who were further ahead in terms of
[32:47] the understanding of the lean startup methodology, had built
[32:51] some products before. We did a bunch of really quick
[32:54] talks. I'm not a big like a conference
[32:55] person. I know Ghana, we love it.
[32:57] We love it gathering. But it was like, you know, a
[33:00] different spin, like, let's get in a room and in three days,
[33:03] let's actually prove out whether or not we can build, you know,
[33:07] products. Are you up in new?
[33:09] York, we work, so it's connected.
[33:12] Yeah, OK, OK cool. Yep.
[33:14] But I'd always had like a pension for the city.
[33:17] I found myself there probably once a year, every year, and I
[33:21] was just very energized by. You know.
[33:25] You sound like you don't like New York.
[33:27] Oh my gosh. Don't understand?
[33:31] Fast bees excites me, yeah. I think for me, it's like one of
[33:35] the it's a true melting pot. People use that phrase for a lot
[33:38] of cities. I think it's probably very true
[33:41] for New York. You can find every possible
[33:44] cuisine, you can find every type of experience you're looking
[33:48] for. You'll find your people no
[33:51] matter who you are. It's a vibrant city.
[33:53] People, you know, rate it. So it's usually on the top of
[33:57] the list in terms of, you know, being first to experience
[34:00] anything. I've seen more Afrobeats artists
[34:03] in New York that I have in, in Africa for that matter, right.
[34:09] So yeah, it's just been a very like, it's just an incredible
[34:14] city in that way. It's very rich in cultural
[34:17] experience and just like what life has to offer, it's true.
[34:23] Yeah, it's not perfect, you know, it's not the cleanest,
[34:25] but. Is it mean what?
[34:27] What is it in the world? Yeah.
[34:29] What is is it? Is it perfect you in the world?
[34:32] No, Perfect. There isn't, right?
[34:34] There's perfect for you. People really see that when
[34:39] they're gonna talk about spouses and choosing a partner.
[34:41] That's that's why I hear that. Like, oh, oh, you're gonna.
[34:43] Be perfect, but you're perfect for me and.
[34:44] I think that could be true for anything.
[34:46] Friendships. Cities.
[34:47] Right. I think it comes down to values,
[34:52] yeah. What what resonates with you,
[34:54] what speaks to you. And New York doesn't speak to
[34:58] everybody. It's true.
[35:00] Yeah. So Ghana.
[35:03] Yes. Ghana, Ghana.
[35:07] So you you come back to do this lease startup conference thing,
[35:11] interface with the Doyens and the nascent tech ecosystem.
[35:18] Yeah. And then what happens?
[35:21] And then, you know, the event was over and then I left.
[35:24] That kind of built this interesting community.
[35:26] People were asking, when will we do this again?
[35:31] I thought about it, but then, you know, my sights, just I, I,
[35:35] I set my interests on, you know, other things like I had other
[35:37] goals that I had to achieve at that time.
[35:40] I was thinking about either moving or going to grad school
[35:45] and evidently that's, you know, what I chose to do go to grad
[35:49] school to just become a better product person because I knew
[35:52] that I would always have the opportunity to come back.
[35:54] So in that something like 10 years span, nine years span, a
[35:59] lot happened. So that's when we saw, you know,
[36:03] the boom right from the fintechs becoming this like, I don't
[36:09] know, acquirable. Yeah.
[36:11] And and just foundation of technology.
[36:13] Everybody was building a fintech at one point.
[36:16] I think it's starting to like plateau a bit and and it's nice
[36:19] because people are actually, I'd always been like, OK, I know we
[36:23] need fintech as sort of an infrastructure layer to do
[36:26] things right. At the end of the day, you know,
[36:29] the transactions need to happen. If we don't have that, then
[36:32] there's really it's very difficult to build anything
[36:35] else. I think we're finally at a point
[36:38] where now having come back and reconnected with some of those
[36:40] people that, you know, sometimes we reminisce about not having
[36:44] any of that infrastructure and now having that infrastructure,
[36:47] we have much more space to, you know, build other things in
[36:52] healthcare, in education. There's so many folks doing like
[36:58] incredible things, biotech, agriculture, you know, things
[37:02] that are, you know, Ghanaian and I just, yeah, speak to the
[37:09] problems that we are trying to solve.
[37:11] Like I think that is rich. So now there's just like a lot
[37:15] of energy around that. The thing I find though is, and
[37:19] this is where I think I'll finally answer your question, is
[37:25] I think there are a lot of people around that.
[37:29] It's two things. There are a lot of interesting
[37:33] people, business people around, right, who have ideas.
[37:37] And the truth is, if you know this, most people at least that
[37:41] are in business know that ideas really don't count for anything.
[37:44] It's ultimately about how you execute and, and what the
[37:47] manifestation of that business is, how you, how you build this
[37:51] out, how you actually solve that problem, that idea.
[37:56] And So what I find is that we have a very nascent sort of
[38:02] knowledge of technology in that people may approach me and say,
[38:05] oh, I have this idea, I want to build an app.
[38:08] And then they leave it at that, forgetting that there's an
[38:11] ecosystem that lives around this problem.
[38:15] You have to build a business, not just an app, right?
[38:18] And even the building the app piece is, is sophisticated.
[38:22] It's not just putting together a bunch of buttons and screens and
[38:27] that's it. It doesn't work that way within
[38:31] tech. I like to think about, you know,
[38:32] retention and it's, it's a little bit far, but I'll, I'll
[38:34] break it down a bit. You know, you built an
[38:37] application, you have people downloading the application,
[38:40] they use it and they go away. You have a project, you don't
[38:45] have a product. So what is it about your app
[38:49] that will make people come in, stick around, and keep coming
[38:54] and keep coming? Spend money.
[38:55] Spend money that That's your test right there.
[38:58] Spend money and now we have our fintech layer, so we can do
[39:02] that. But so that part is easy.
[39:04] The other thing that's happening that sort of macro level is, you
[39:07] know, AI. So it's never been easier to
[39:10] whip up an app. So the building an app part is
[39:15] actually not the hard part for some people.
[39:17] It's not your field. OK, I get that.
[39:19] The hard part is figuring out like all of these kind of
[39:22] business loops that will continue to drive the business.
[39:25] If your core is an app and that's what is driving your
[39:28] business, then what drives retention?
[39:31] What keeps somebody coming back, as you said, spending money.
[39:35] So that's what inspired me to start author Digital Labs
[39:39] because I realized that in Ghana, having those
[39:43] conversations with people, you see the light bulbs going off
[39:45] and that's kind of the magic of it, right?
[39:47] It's not it's not actually building the apps.
[39:49] Yes, we do that. We'll build apps, We'll, we'll
[39:51] design, we'll redesign. But the the part I enjoy most is
[39:56] actually like having that connection with with the founder
[40:00] and making them realize that you're really truly building a
[40:03] business here. It's not just I have an app,
[40:07] it's so much more than that. It's strategy so I can get into.
[40:11] I can talk and no doubt about that all day, but so.
[40:14] Essentially, author author digital apps.
[40:16] Why not name them? You know, it was difficult for
[40:19] me to pick a name, but ultimately, I won't lie to you.
[40:22] I, I thought, you know what, at the end of the day, it'll just
[40:24] be a name, but I'm big on names. So I did spend a little bit of
[40:28] time thinking about it. The author piece for me was a
[40:32] few things. It was connection with, OK,
[40:36] create creation. As I've mentioned, I, I, I love
[40:40] just creating and innovating. So authors, when you think of an
[40:45] author, right, it's, it's not just about putting pen to paper.
[40:49] There's thoughts that goes into it.
[40:51] There is a story that you're trying to tell.
[40:53] And so I think that is like just translating that into like more
[40:56] text speak. It's creating and crafting, you
[40:59] know, thoughtfully as an author, you don't just put pen to paper
[41:04] and put it out there. You you don't you don't have a
[41:06] best seller, right By just writing something.
[41:10] It takes a lot of thought and crafts.
[41:13] I do, I do. I like, I like, I like reading.
[41:21] I like different types of I'm not like a huge fiction person.
[41:25] Although recently I've found that I can be, you know, a nice
[41:29] sort of escape from things. I think me too.
[41:34] For the most part I was immediately reading a lot of
[41:36] fiction, but lately I think fiction is.
[41:41] True, yeah. You can read a story and you're
[41:46] like, it probably explains something you are going through
[41:50] as a piercing. And it's so true.
[41:53] The characters may not be real, but what this thing is, this
[41:57] story is telling the true. Which one?
[42:00] People tell me that, oh, the Bible is a wake of fiction.
[42:02] I'm not, but it's true. I don't need the characters to
[42:07] be actual human beings and people who actually lived, but
[42:10] the extracts from these stories are true.
[42:13] Yeah. Yeah, like they they actually in
[42:16] the sense that they align with our reality.
[42:20] I know that if I they stick someone like Ruben in the Bible,
[42:24] if I go and sleep with my father's concubine, there are
[42:26] repercussions. They're true.
[42:29] You know, I don't need. I don't, I don't want Ruben to
[42:31] be a real person. I didn't need Jacob to be a real
[42:33] person. Yeah, right.
[42:34] Or if I take someone like Abraham and say if I wrestle
[42:38] with uncertainty and have a good relationship with uncertainty so
[42:41] much, I'll become a man of wealth or a man of influence, a
[42:45] man of legacy. Yeah, it's true.
[42:47] I don't need Abraham to be a real person.
[42:49] Yeah. And so, yeah.
[42:52] Fiction. Yeah.
[42:53] OK, but before we come back to Arthur, before Arthur you came.
[42:58] You was a God. You did something else before I
[43:03] did, yeah. I did.
[43:05] What was that? So I built a company right in
[43:10] the food space. What?
[43:13] Was it called? In commerce, it's called Kyu.
[43:15] OK, so again, back to the name thing, just it meant something,
[43:20] you know, in that time. So it was taking like, you know,
[43:24] something that is very natural in our environment, right?
[43:28] But then adding a layer of technology to it to make it more
[43:31] efficient. So the idea was that you could
[43:34] order Market groceries in a few hours just through a few taps on
[43:39] your phone. OK.
[43:41] Yeah, now. What happened?
[43:43] Why did you still try? You is a company so active.
[43:47] The company is no longer active. You know, I would say the
[43:55] quickest way to explain it, honestly, it was quite a
[43:59] learning part for me in that I was.
[44:01] Let's start from the beginning of that.
[44:02] Yeah. So you have finished your post
[44:11] Graduate School, sure at this time and you decided to come
[44:15] back to Ghana? Went to, went back to Facebook,
[44:18] went to rework, went to another start up.
[44:21] Then I came to. Ghana.
[44:22] Then you came to Ghana? Yeah, OK.
[44:24] Why did you guys come back to Ghana?
[44:26] Why yes, so at this point, this is where I was having sort of
[44:29] that, OK, let's revisit this 2014 we tried this, it's now
[44:33] 2022-2023 could be interesting again now that we have this, you
[44:39] know, foundation of exactly now I can build the things I'm
[44:42] actually interested in, but what's, what's the, what is the
[44:46] thing I'm going to build? So it was about coming here and
[44:49] I'm not big on being away from somewhere and coming up with
[44:53] ideas or, you know, transplanting, you know, things
[44:56] that work in other places here. So I could have done that.
[44:58] Some people have done that. It's about being on the ground
[45:02] and really figuring out like, what is it that makes people
[45:05] tick? No, in the context.
[45:07] No, in the context exactly that customer discovery is what we
[45:11] call it's in the space just really being embedded in the
[45:15] system and understanding how people do things and where you
[45:18] can reduce friction is how that user or customer discovery
[45:23] development happens. So for me, it was just coming
[45:26] home, spending time here and sort of looking for those
[45:29] problems like in everyday things.
[45:32] And it was a few things. It's not just like finding a
[45:34] problem because you can do that, but you have to sort of account
[45:37] for, OK, like how big is this market really?
[45:40] Can you actually make money for me?
[45:42] Will people pay for something to make this a little bit easier, a
[45:45] little bit more efficient, or even change the way they do it
[45:48] completely? So landed on that specific area.
[45:52] I've always been at that time, I'd spent a lot of time in
[45:56] e-commerce. So it was very natural for me to
[45:59] think of what's an e-commerce application that could work
[46:02] here. So quickly that became, I mean,
[46:06] honestly from an idea perspective, it wasn't the most
[46:10] noble thing that people doing, you know this in the market
[46:13] already, they're using WhatsApp and stuff like that or even, you
[46:17] know, of course people at home go shopping for you, for your
[46:20] market groceries. But I thought, OK, what if there
[46:23] was an application that could allow to do this much quicker at
[46:27] better cost and not just for the end, like sort of, you know,
[46:34] home user, right? But even businesses like hotels
[46:38] and you know, or events and other types of users like chefs,
[46:43] for example. So quickly it became like just
[46:45] very interesting and exciting to me.
[46:46] Talked to a lot of people, a lot, a lot of people about just
[46:51] how they do things in that space.
[46:54] And then quickly that became concepts to building an
[46:57] application and then putting it in the market.
[47:00] So launched it in the beginning of 2023, am I right?
[47:06] Yes, 2020. No, I'm mixing up.
[47:09] My days now. Yeah, No, no, last year of 2025
[47:14] launched the beginning of 2024. OK.
[47:17] Just so run it for a year, yeah, Rana Fryer who started working
[47:22] on it before that, of course, right, but launched in January
[47:24] of 2024 and month of a month, it was incredible what, you know,
[47:30] sort of I was learning from like what I put out there, what
[47:34] people are willing to, you know, the kind of feedback people are
[47:37] willing to give. Very, very open to that.
[47:40] As a product person, you have to be very open to what people have
[47:42] to say about your products and be very willing to fix it
[47:45] quickly if there is anything to be fixed or if there is anything
[47:50] to be changed or enhanced to further the the user's journey
[47:54] in a, in a productive way. So month over month, just seeing
[48:00] like growth on growth on growth, like double digits.
[48:03] I mean, I was very happy with it.
[48:04] It's a lot of work to be honest, because you know, every day I
[48:09] was looking at the numbers. I'm trying to figure out, OK,
[48:13] how do I grow this thing week over week or month over month,
[48:17] right? And so it was really an
[48:19] experiment unto itself, like and wearing all the hats, not just
[48:23] my product manager hats, you know, back then I was used to
[48:26] somebody else dealing with the finance and the marketing and
[48:29] all of that. I just had to think about what
[48:32] is it that people need? But now I had to wear all of the
[48:34] hats. I had to hire people in Ghana.
[48:36] That was a fun experience dealing with HR in Ghana is is
[48:41] incredible. But you know, you get lucky and
[48:45] you find someone who's actually willing to learn and put in work
[48:50] and reward them for those things and set up systems in such a way
[48:53] that they are incentivized to do the right things.
[48:55] It is actually possible, I think to to hack that.
[48:59] And since then, I've sort of shared those Nuggets with other
[49:02] friends who are also built building businesses in this
[49:05] space. And yeah, so ran that for about
[49:11] a year and had to make the hard decision of shutting it down.
[49:18] Reason being not the business. As I mentioned, I was getting
[49:22] the traction that I thought was appropriate for the stage of
[49:25] company and everything, but it came down to just a difference
[49:29] of values with, you know, partner that I had.
[49:32] And so ultimately for me, the ROI, the cost of continuing to
[49:37] do this in its form at the time would be much higher with a
[49:42] partner that didn't necessarily share the same values as I did
[49:46] than, you know, continuing to to run it with that person.
[49:50] So making that trade off and being OK with it.
[49:53] And also, you know, through the process, gaining confidence to
[49:56] know that I can actually do business in Ghana and I don't
[50:00] need a partner to do that. So that was another thing, you
[50:03] know, and I learnt things about choosing a good partner as well
[50:08] a ton about that. So it's not necessarily shying
[50:11] away from having a partner, but knowing when, what kind of
[50:14] person is this person, you know, motivationally aligned with you?
[50:18] Do you share the same values, integrity, trust, you know,
[50:26] working hard, working smart, pushing, like when you go to bed
[50:30] at night, you know that this other person is going to push,
[50:35] you know, the business forward the way you would or maybe even
[50:37] harder. And you can sleep well knowing
[50:40] that that's that, that that is a good partner.
[50:43] So for me, the costs just outweigh the benefits.
[50:48] And I just made that decision. And I thought, you know what,
[50:50] It's OK, I'll, I'll do this probably several times over.
[50:55] I'll do it better. And you know, it's just a
[50:58] learning, another sort of learning in the coffee, if you
[51:01] will. Well, coming this morning, I was
[51:05] listening to a conversation between Stephen Bartlett and
[51:08] Maggie and think actually there was something that was discussed
[51:16] that aligns with how I've decided to.
[51:18] Happy New Year, by the way. Happy New Year.
[51:22] Good morning, Phil. Nice to meet you again.
[51:27] Very good and I one of the things that central highlights I
[51:32] decided to embody like an ether to chat to embody for this year
[51:36] is that none of it matters at the end of the day, I can do
[51:42] something today it will end tomorrow.
[51:44] That's fine because the truth is that if I'm blessed enough to
[51:48] get married and give God finds me a good still to have children
[51:52] and and I get to have great grandchildren and great
[51:55] grandchildren. My my, it's the chances that my
[51:58] great, great grandchildren will remember my name will Remember
[52:00] Me. It's slain like if we often
[52:03] times forget how quickly we have forgotten as people.
[52:06] And so we keep wondering why do people think always think of
[52:09] what people think. But if you have the mindset in
[52:12] like what, 60 years or in terms of none of this will matter, it
[52:16] might sound depressing, but like it's so liberating for me.
[52:19] And so I'm doing this thing. I don't think it's working.
[52:22] It gets shatter now. Like I know that you do another
[52:24] thing. You actually do something else
[52:25] and build something else 100%. And so I think this I can
[52:29] encourage like other people who are listening and it's OK to
[52:32] shut down and do something else. Absolutely.
[52:36] Your life is a life season. Life, it's only one.
[52:38] One. No, it's only one.
[52:42] So just two things. Living and living it well,
[52:45] letting go of things that actually don't align with you.
[52:47] Yeah, liberating, as you say. It's also humbling, I think, to
[52:51] come to terms. I went to a funeral yesterday
[52:53] and that was kind of the thinking I had.
[52:55] I was like, wow, life is so fleeting, you know?
[52:58] And the way this person was being remembered, I was like,
[53:00] you know, just thinking about those things, right?
[53:03] It, it really is sobering. Yeah.
[53:05] Think about legacy. You think about what you want to
[53:07] be remembered for or or not, how you just touched people, how you
[53:09] make people feel. Those things matter to me more
[53:13] than having a business. Yeah, you know what I mean?
[53:18] So yeah. And for me, even with this work,
[53:19] I think for the most part I was kinda cause oh, when when I
[53:24] clean up that would like be made for it.
[53:27] But I've come to the point that I don't care.
[53:29] I really don't care because the world doesn't care.
[53:31] In the big picture. Nobody cares.
[53:32] It's true. Nobody cares.
[53:36] And so it's just go hard. A life, of course, would be a
[53:42] terrible person because nobody cares.
[53:44] I think ultimately it is, you know, and this is going back to
[53:48] sort of like faith-based principles, right?
[53:49] Like what was the greatest, you know, commandments when the
[53:54] disciples were asking Jesus if you remember love, love, love
[53:57] what? Your neighbors as well.
[53:59] Love God. Love God, yes.
[54:01] I love you and it sounds so Oh, OK, But if you deep it, you
[54:07] know, there's something about anchoring yourself upward and
[54:10] then anchoring yourself, you know, horizontally, like with
[54:14] people that you have, you are with.
[54:16] And I, I think that that matters more than anything ultimately.
[54:25] And I don't think God gives us like those types of commandments
[54:28] just to give them like they glorify him.
[54:31] But ultimately, it actually does bless people in a way, right.
[54:35] So in your calling, in your purpose and the fulfillment of
[54:40] what that is, if you can at the end of the day say that I'm
[54:43] content with what I'm doing because through that, I'm loving
[54:46] God, I'm worshiping God and I love other people.
[54:50] That's what matters. And and there's there's a
[54:52] fulfillment. The unspoken thing about that is
[54:54] what I'm getting at, right? There's something that comes
[54:56] with that. Yeah.
[54:57] Because love, God loves us that much.
[54:59] Yeah, it comes with that. There's a reward that comes with
[55:03] just doing what you are interested in and what is loving
[55:06] unto God and others. There is this book by Fyodor
[55:10] Dostiers. He's called Crime and Punishment
[55:12] and was called to cover the main character.
[55:13] And he did something terrible. He killed an old lady and he was
[55:17] testing the boundaries of why we say why shouldn't I murder
[55:20] anybody? Why should I kill anybody?
[55:21] And I think the whole book is about his terror and the whole
[55:25] he went the hell he went through because he did that.
[55:30] Nobody was pursuing him. And it just tells me that, like
[55:33] what you said, I mean, nobody cares but for your own good
[55:37] mentally. Because I think for me, on the
[55:40] personal level, like aspirincially, we do things that
[55:44] do not resonate with love. You don't have Peace of Mind.
[55:49] Very important. Had this conversation with a
[55:51] friend yesterday. You don't have Peace of Mind.
[55:53] And it's like there are these like God has intentionally put
[55:58] like what Augustine said in the opening of the confession.
[56:00] And he's like, you have puts a heart with no, no rest until
[56:04] it's rested in you. And God is love.
[56:06] And so, yeah, nobody cares but you yourself.
[56:09] You have no Peace of Mind. And so whatever you're doing has
[56:12] to be grounded in love. That I'm loving God, I love the
[56:15] people around me. I'm caring.
[56:16] I'm trying to just love. Yeah.
[56:19] Yeah. So we are saying, all right,
[56:21] that live your life, go ahead at it.
[56:25] Don't be be shameless or have audacity.
[56:30] Be mad. You know, I was studying Dick.
[56:32] I've been telling Dick about the period this year.
[56:34] You're going to be so auditious people think you're mad.
[56:37] Yes, yes, yes. But then it's going to be
[56:40] grounded in love. That's the caveat.
[56:42] I think that's the key. Whatever, whatever it is that
[56:45] you pursue, yes, being grounded in love, I think it's yeah, is
[56:49] important. But as you said, going back to
[56:50] Kandaganian thing, it's not niceness, it's kindness.
[56:54] Yeah, yeah, because for me, the last two to three years, I've
[57:00] learnt a lot. And it's like, Bill, if you
[57:02] don't do things that are gotten in love, hell is, it's like hell
[57:08] is. That is the inability to love,
[57:10] to be in hell. It's like to not be able to give
[57:16] love real really well and receive love.
[57:22] It's it's hell yeah. And I I do not see this from
[57:26] like a very abstract place. It's experiential that if you do
[57:31] not do things that are godly love and like you lie and you
[57:35] contort and you manipulate and you God is so wise, you will not
[57:43] go away with it. You, you will pay for it.
[57:47] It's. It's it's as you said, it's like
[57:49] it's hell on earth. Yeah, essentially.
[57:51] Yeah, yeah. Nobody will chase you.
[57:53] You will chase yourself. Yeah, yeah.
[57:55] That's a that's a vested scripture.
[57:56] That's he that the the wicked runners when no one pursue us.
[57:59] It's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[58:03] Anyway, so battle apps. So now you shut.
[58:07] You shut down Kyo. Yeah.
[58:10] And you are the balcony sipping. Why?
[58:13] Maybe. How did it happen?
[58:15] Something along those lines. And, you know, it didn't all
[58:19] happen after Caius. So even during, you know,
[58:24] there's something about putting yourself out there and building
[58:27] a business. People then kind of want to
[58:29] understand, OK, so how do you work?
[58:31] Like what they're asking a lot of questions about, you know, so
[58:34] it's having a lot of very organic conversations with
[58:36] people about my process, what I was learning, just the journey
[58:40] along the way. And I came to this realization
[58:43] that there's truly a gap, like around people understanding.
[58:47] I had, you know, I don't take this for granted.
[58:50] I had had the benefit of working at, you know, these large,
[58:53] incredible company now walking next to like Zuckerberg on a
[58:56] Monday morning and having a chat, you know, like that kind
[58:59] of thing doesn't happen for everybody.
[59:01] And so I was coming from a place where, like, I took product for
[59:04] granted because I'd done it for so long and I knew how to also
[59:08] whip up a nap and make it work, right.
[59:11] But what I realized is like, that's not everybody, right?
[59:13] Nobody, not everybody has had that experience.
[59:15] And so there's a gap in understanding of how to get
[59:18] there, creating an application that actually solves a real
[59:23] problem and putting it out in the market in a way that people
[59:26] will be drawn to it, use it and all of that and grow it.
[59:30] And so I was just answering questions, you know, about that.
[59:35] And it just became clear, like, maybe I should start charging
[59:38] money for this. And so that's kind of, you know,
[59:42] where it was birthed, the idea of just having these, you know,
[59:46] real strategic conversations with people about tech and not
[59:50] just building an app, but what does it take to build a great
[59:54] app or even rebuild one, Right. So slowly started to look into
[1:00:02] formalizing it and then really just committed to it towards the
[1:00:07] end of 20/20/2024. Yeah.
[1:00:13] So we've been around for about a year now, but our global so.
[1:00:21] Mostly Ghanaian, which I'm very proud of.
[1:00:23] So engineers, designers, that sits in different parts of the
[1:00:27] world, mostly in Ghana, but we have, you know, myself kind of
[1:00:31] in and out of Ghana and in the US and London and I mentioned
[1:00:38] here. But basically working with
[1:00:41] companies everywhere from Taiwan to Europe and Africa being I
[1:00:47] think the centre, my target and just focus is, well, if we can
[1:00:51] build things for Africa, then it works.
[1:00:53] For whatever reason, that's always like the thing, right?
[1:00:56] With Africa, if you solve it here, you can solve it anywhere
[1:00:59] sort of thing. New York.
[1:01:01] Yeah. And honestly, so it's also more
[1:01:04] interesting. It's more exciting.
[1:01:05] I have more of a, you know, yeah, like a tie to this place,
[1:01:10] right. So I want to see businesses
[1:01:12] like. Actually, she was like,
[1:01:13] essentially like a consultancy. It is a studio.
[1:01:16] We are not a consulting firm. So we will not just give you
[1:01:21] suggestions and walk away unless that's what you want.
[1:01:24] Usually we are done with you house.
[1:01:28] So we'll, we'll sit with you to partner with you to actually
[1:01:31] take you from point A to point B, holding your hand along the
[1:01:36] way. Because I just realized that
[1:01:38] the, the local time it's growing.
[1:01:40] I'm, I'm, I'm happy to see like there are more product managers
[1:01:43] in the ecosystem now there are more designers in the ecosystem,
[1:01:46] but we are a young ecosystem. So the, the skill level isn't
[1:01:50] always, you know, where I want to want it to be.
[1:01:53] And I think I, I do view it as like part of my responsibility
[1:01:57] as somebody who's had the privilege of having global
[1:01:59] experience to kind of figure out like, what does that look like
[1:02:04] at home? How can I share that with other
[1:02:06] thought leaders in this space to help them also up level?
[1:02:10] So yeah, we will actually work with you to either redesign your
[1:02:14] application, design something from scratch with strategy being
[1:02:17] like Forefront, how are we making money from this thing
[1:02:20] from day one? What is the business that we are
[1:02:23] building here? It's not an app, it's not a
[1:02:26] website. It is.
[1:02:28] But we value also like all of these things sort of they
[1:02:33] complement each other, right? It's not just about, OK, yeah,
[1:02:36] there's the business aspect, but then there is a, there is also
[1:02:40] something that comes with like a quality and a seamlessness and a
[1:02:43] frictionlessness in like, you know, a user experience.
[1:02:46] You open up the Instagram app, now there's a way that it works,
[1:02:49] right? That's just like smooth.
[1:02:51] Yeah. There are hiccups every now and
[1:02:53] then, but very rarely too. Yeah, there's a, there's a
[1:02:56] seamlessness and a feel to it that feels very professional and
[1:03:01] well done, right. And I don't necessarily think we
[1:03:03] have that quality here. So trying to bring that level of
[1:03:07] quality in design and experience here, I think is is big.
[1:03:13] So what does your visual look like this this is team this year
[1:03:16] 2026. OK.
[1:03:18] What's what's that look like for Arthur Digital Lapse, which is a
[1:03:23] studio here in Aqua Ghana. You know, we're in that kind of
[1:03:29] new year process, right, of figuring out what is on the
[1:03:33] horizon. I started thinking about this,
[1:03:35] of course, you know, being the founding like partner last year.
[1:03:40] I think more clients for sure. It's a no brainer, but also more
[1:03:48] sharing of like thought leadership.
[1:03:50] So what is our take on design? What is our take on AI and
[1:03:55] sharing that in a way that's accessible to people and a lot
[1:03:57] of people not just here in Accra, but outside, like what do
[1:04:01] Ghanaians think of these things and bringing those thought
[1:04:06] leaders together. So starting to like build that.
[1:04:09] I don't know if it'll be a podcast, but something along
[1:04:11] those lines to share thoughts 'cause I think that's important.
[1:04:15] Dialogue is important, right, in any culture.
[1:04:19] And then maybe, yeah, maybe also I think thinking about, again,
[1:04:24] like kind of the in real life experiences.
[1:04:26] So along the lines of thought leadership, having events that
[1:04:30] bring together people who wants to learn.
[1:04:33] So as I mentioned, I'm not like a huge fan of conferences and
[1:04:36] things like that, but yeah. The market wants.
[1:04:40] To well, yeah, so, so in in true products, you know, thoughts and
[1:04:45] approach, I have to consider that right.
[1:04:48] But what is something that's true to the the values of the
[1:04:50] studio and how we work to be able to disseminate information
[1:04:54] in a way that people can can absorb and learn and maybe even,
[1:04:57] you know, partner with us or join us.
[1:05:00] So. Yeah, but do you think there's a
[1:05:01] pathway at some point you guys are going to maybe to existing
[1:05:04] degree? You, you remind me of Zubay,
[1:05:10] what's his name? You know, build, build a
[1:05:15] company. This guy Julian Ozu, I don't
[1:05:19] know who that is. If you connect to Julian, I
[1:05:22] think you guys make it great. They just build a similar
[1:05:25] company. He was on a part a couple of
[1:05:27] episodes ago. Okay, yeah.
[1:05:30] You also build like initial company called Berry doing this
[1:05:34] financing credit salary financing thing, shut it down
[1:05:38] regulatory issues and now they're building like a whole.
[1:05:41] They built a studio where they also help businesses with their
[1:05:44] ideas, products, tech strategy, you know, so you should you guys
[1:05:49] should connect. OK.
[1:05:51] We good for the ecosystem. Yeah.
[1:05:52] Yeah, so. More collaboration?
[1:05:56] Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
[1:05:57] I think I need to not so good at that collaborating, yeah, very
[1:06:01] competitive, yeah. But nice, nice with it.
[1:06:06] Sprinkle that. Nice, isn't it like it?
[1:06:08] So I mean, if you're not reading when you're not reading, in case
[1:06:11] you like reading so much, what do?
[1:06:15] You do. What do I do?
[1:06:18] I golf, although I had to take a break from that last year
[1:06:21] because I had a small surgery. So that, that will be another
[1:06:28] thing that I reincorporate into 2026.
[1:06:31] OK, travelling a lot. I love exploring just like new
[1:06:37] places. I, I think in another world and
[1:06:40] it's still kind of part of my product journey is, you know,
[1:06:43] just understanding people like psychology, sociology, really
[1:06:48] understanding like how people think, work.
[1:06:52] And really every, every city, every town has something to
[1:06:55] offer. So the last trip that I was most
[1:06:59] energized by was I went to Porto in Portugal and I learned
[1:07:03] something that I don't think a lot of people know.
[1:07:06] I could be wrong, but I learned that, for example, there is a
[1:07:13] there is a white port if you knew anything about wine, I
[1:07:18] didn't know that. I only thought port was red.
[1:07:22] But I learned that in Porto, the city of ports, that they also
[1:07:26] have these white ports and they're quite good, a little
[1:07:29] sugary, but very good. And so anyway, love that.
[1:07:35] Hoping to do more Africa travel. I have not been to Dakar so
[1:07:41] that's on the list. Senegal.
[1:07:43] Senegal in general, yeah. For whatever reason, my heart is
[1:07:48] sets on that. So, you know, I said too like
[1:07:50] this, I want to do a lot, like travel across Africa a lot.
[1:07:53] I don't know how I want to do. Yeah.
[1:07:56] Visit this continent. They are inspired by Danjua.
[1:07:59] Yeah, yeah. And I was like, hey, I'm going
[1:08:03] to good to do this this year. Do you get the book?
[1:08:06] I didn't get it. Yeah, we're here to get those.
[1:08:11] Yeah. So thank you so much for coming.
[1:08:13] Thanks for having me. Rahel, Rachel.
[1:08:16] Rachel. Rachel.
[1:08:18] Thanks. It's been a pleasure, great
[1:08:20] conversation and I'm really rooting for you.
[1:08:24] What you're doing, I really hope you connect with Julian as well.
[1:08:27] We need a lot more people like you in the ecosystem.
[1:08:30] And yeah, and got people to to your trip tonight.
[1:08:35] Thank you. Yeah, and enjoy it.
[1:08:36] Thanks. Alright.
[1:08:39] Thanks. For having me.
[1:08:41] Yeah, the friends, it's a new year 226 and our mantra hasn't
[1:08:46] changed. It's a new year.
[1:08:47] See Mantra just to build something.

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