# Makafui Ayime: The Sad Truth About The Ghanaian Business Market & Mentality

An episode of [The Peswa Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1781537541), 27 Apr 2025, 1 h 16 min.

Audio: https://anchor.fm/s/110e1ce70/podcast/play/117753091/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2026-2-31%2F421135824-44100-1-c986e227e5b5a58c.mp3

Send a text What’s Making Africa’s Business Landscape So Tough? & Why is there a lack of collaboration among Ghanaian businesses? In today’s episode, I sit down with Makafui Ayime, Founder and CEO of Accra Goods Market. What started as a formal interview quickly evolved into a profound discussion about the realities of the African and Ghanaian market landscape. Makafui shares his entrepreneurial journey — what inspired him to start, the challenges he faced, and the resilience needed to thrive in Africa’s tough market environment. We dive deep into why collaboration among Ghanaian businesses and startups remains a challenge, contrasting it with how communities like the Indians and Lebanese in Ghana have built strong, cooperative networks. This conversation is rich, insightful, and packed with gems. An episode full of lessons, inspiration, and real talk — you don’t want to miss it! 📩 Connect with us: • Follow Bill on Instagram: @billcobbinah • Follow us on all socials: @thepeswa 📢 Subscribe The Peswa on all Platforms: https://linktr.ee/thepeswa Sponsored by: Tendo - Africa's No.1 reselling platform visit: https://tendo.app/ for more info #GhanaBusiness #AfricanMarket #CollaborationChallenges #AfricaEntrepreneurship #BusinessInAfrica #GhanaEconomy #AfricanBusiness #MarketMindset #Entrepreneurship #BusinessStruggles The Fresh Patch Podcast - Where Good Pets Get It. Welcome to the Fresh Patch Podcast where we talk about everything, from dog... Listen on: Apple Podcasts Support the show

## Transcript

[0:00] So a crowd goods market, yeah. What about you need a certain
[0:05] level of grits, A certain level of?
[0:08] I want to do this to not give up in in like a terrain like this.
[0:13] Right. Why do you think that's a sore?
[0:14] We don't. We don't collaborate.
[0:15] We don't want to collaborate. We're not interested in
[0:17] collaboration. That's why Nigerians will have
[0:19] billionaires and we will not have yes, if they take like
[0:22] trans core, almost all the Nigerian billionaires are on
[0:25] there pushing capital in there. I know Ghana.
[0:28] Yeah, but here the Lebanese and the Indians do that.
[0:30] There's Papaya, then there's CCTC.
[0:36] So now Papaya buy the rice from CCTC, Dubai Oil, everything from
[0:39] there. When they want to eat where they
[0:41] go to Papaya or they go to Lagalet or they go to any
[0:44] Lebanese owned restaurant, like we're not involved.
[0:48] There's no Ghanaian in their ecosystem.
[0:50] The only Ghanaians that you work for them the small business
[0:54] don't have enough skills. They, they don't know what it
[0:58] means to run a business. They, they've, they've stumbled
[1:01] upon entrepreneurship as a, as a result of poverty.
[1:06] But we need to now build capacity where they understand
[1:09] what they're doing. They understand what it means to
[1:11] ready yourself for investment. They understand what it means
[1:14] to, they understand standards. For example, we don't have
[1:17] standards. So you want to export to
[1:20] Nigeria, but there's slippers that you've made.
[1:22] We work 10 minutes and it is coming off because you blew this
[1:24] and you didn't stitch it. I, I know that like in Europe,
[1:27] they say you'll feel fast. In Africa, if you feel fast,
[1:30] that's that's it is the end for you because you only get one
[1:33] shot. So across goods market, Yeah, I
[1:45] know. What about?
[1:48] So I think it's it's evolved over the years.
[1:52] I think every year I come up with a new description of, of,
[1:56] of what, of what their cragus market is.
[1:58] But initially we, we started out as like a support network.
[2:03] So in my mind, I was going to put together a bunch of
[2:08] entrepreneurs, help them to become sustainable in terms of
[2:14] plug in them with the right skill sets, the right people to
[2:18] make things happen, right. So essentially maybe create an
[2:21] ecosystem where we create access to markets, we have training
[2:26] partners, we have payment partners and, and then everybody
[2:30] just benefits. So initially that was the idea,
[2:34] but I think over time I noticed that it would be difficult to,
[2:38] to build that support. I'm not big enough to build a
[2:40] support network, you know, and then the, I haven't at the time
[2:44] I identified people who could be a part of the, of the, of the
[2:47] network so that they would have that support.
[2:51] So then we just became a community of small businesses.
[2:54] OK. Primarily female leads.
[2:56] I think about 90% of my mentions are female.
[2:59] Right. Well, typical behaviour, typical
[3:03] patients behaviour in Ghana, females buy a lot.
[3:06] Again, females are more entrepreneurial.
[3:09] I know that men like to feel like they are the ones that lead
[3:12] the conversation. But yeah, in terms of
[3:14] entrepreneurship, I think even the World Bank stats show that
[3:19] Ghana, I think we're like #2 in Africa for entrepreneur
[3:22] entrepreneurs, like women entrepreneurs.
[3:24] Yeah. So we're very big on that.
[3:26] And so it's natural that we would have like, a lot of female
[3:30] merchants and a lot of female shoppers because I, I guess a
[3:33] lot of grief for so many women attending the market, people who
[3:37] ask where the men. But if I have 90 female
[3:40] merchants selling female things, of course there'll be 90% e-mail
[3:44] patrons. So yeah.
[3:45] Makes sense. Your name McAfee Aimee, right?
[3:49] But I I pick up that in some circles the Aimee is pronounced
[3:53] Amy, right? Oh.
[3:54] No, no, no, it's just a that's a joke, I think.
[4:01] Yeah. So I think this is this is
[4:04] probably for like 1 of the interviews with with one of my
[4:06] good friends a couple a couple of years back.
[4:09] You know, I went to school in London.
[4:10] So McAfee is not a thing that it it, it cannot be pronounced.
[4:16] It's butchered many times. And so maca became like the
[4:20] default. And then I just used to make
[4:23] jokes around. Yeah, yeah.
[4:25] So it's all about e-mail. I used to say it was Amy, but
[4:27] yeah, like all of that was. Just a joke.
[4:29] I I have a friend called and what time I was talking and you
[4:31] were like, well, and if Schwarzenegger quite a way to
[4:35] make the word pronounce his name, then I also make sure
[4:39] someone can pronounce my name wherever they come from,
[4:41] whatever culture they be like so well, I don't cover my name.
[4:44] If you can't pronounce, you must learn how to pronounce it.
[4:46] Yeah, Yeah. No, but I think it's, it's also
[4:48] a bigger question about identity.
[4:50] Yeah. So essentially you have to, I
[4:53] think, I think now we're very much, I think getting in some
[4:58] force. Yeah.
[4:59] Enforce that Now that's good. You can't call me Bill, you
[5:01] know, but I. Call you Bill.
[5:05] Yeah, funny of I have an English name, Bill.
[5:09] But I mean, hopefully when I get to have kids to be like very
[5:12] local names or local. Names.
[5:13] Yeah, my kids have local. Names.
[5:14] Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have to, like, really own our
[5:16] identity as a people. It's like the first step to ask
[5:20] if you know who you are, then you know where you're headed.
[5:22] You know, I think another. Question is, do we know who we
[5:24] are I. Think that's, that's, that's a
[5:25] big question. Yeah, yeah.
[5:28] But hopefully we're getting there.
[5:29] Because even even from like a Ghanaian perspective, what are
[5:32] we known for? What's our identity?
[5:35] Interesting. Do you?
[5:36] Know what I mean? Jollof OK, yes, this came from
[5:41] Senegal, I think I heard. Yeah, you.
[5:43] Know. We, we will, we will.
[5:46] Hopefully we can Marshall around a course or a national story.
[5:51] Right, 'cause I think even as if you, if you speak to people
[5:56] going into like in their 50s and 60s, there's a certain sense of
[6:01] patriotism that comes from stories they were told when they
[6:04] were younger. Yeah.
[6:06] But now you don't get that. No, but, but these are young
[6:08] people who grew up. My dad was like a young pioneer
[6:10] in yes, right. They took pride in wearing that.
[6:14] I think they used to wear like a brown thing with a hat.
[6:16] Did you have Boy Scouts and girls guys in you?
[6:18] OK, so I had that in like when I was in school.
[6:20] But those things are no longer a part of of our educational
[6:24] system, you know, So we're not the, the, the we're not, we're
[6:30] not, we're not embedding a sense of.
[6:35] Right national. Pride, right?
[6:36] But that's why I asked like, what's there to be proud of?
[6:38] Like what's what, what's are then what's are we, What's our
[6:41] biggest exports? For me to be able to stand
[6:45] somewhere and say that, look, as a Ghanaian, this is like our
[6:47] singular most priced assets and the whole world's supposed to
[6:52] come to us for that. I mean, Singapore has that,
[6:53] America has that, the UK has that.
[6:56] What do you think? Is this for America?
[6:59] I think for them it's primarily the freedom to be whoever you
[7:02] want to be. You know, it's, it's land of the
[7:04] free. You know, everybody can make it
[7:06] in America. Supposedly, yeah.
[7:09] But yeah, I mean, in terms of US, what are we offering?
[7:16] A Zone talk would have been our biggest Expo.
[7:21] True though, yeah. Because I mean, if you look at
[7:23] if you look at the the the recent wave of music requiring a
[7:30] dance for it to become multicultural, Yeah, she's very
[7:35] like I never imagined people in in Japan singing Terminator, but
[7:39] it was because of a dance. Yeah.
[7:41] Right. Sometimes your fame comes from
[7:45] like the most random things places.
[7:47] Yeah. Just talking about Dad and
[7:51] growing up in Boy Scouts. Where is in a choir.
[7:54] Yeah, I'm very much like in a car, baby grew up in a dancing
[7:57] one. Like the biggest community in
[7:59] West Africa. Yeah, it's very, very community
[8:03] LED. Everybody knows everybody.
[8:06] Yeah. Like my, I don't, I'd like, And
[8:10] I mean, at that time there were no mobile phones and stuff.
[8:12] Yeah, but like, my parents would know if I was not in the house
[8:16] when they were away. Yeah.
[8:17] Because the neighbor, Auntie Martha would have seen me at the
[8:19] junction with Auntie B son and probably bump into my parents.
[8:25] And I saw McAfee, yeah, you know, everyone, everyone was
[8:29] like each other's keeper back in the day.
[8:30] We didn't even have walls then. No, I think we were losing that.
[8:33] Yeah, that milk Bush was was like our wall.
[8:35] You could walk through. If it's like a column of 10
[8:38] houses, you could walk from the first one to the last one.
[8:41] You just walk through. Why do you think that has
[8:43] changed? I think we're look, we're
[8:47] creating boundaries. We're becoming very, very
[8:51] possessive in terms of this, This is, this is mine, this is
[8:55] for me, this is what I control. And, and all of this is as a
[8:58] result of not wanting to be a community anymore.
[9:05] I think we're very much, it's very much like a crab, like
[9:07] crabs in the bucket kind of thing where everyone's trying to
[9:10] get out. And so once they're out, they
[9:13] then form like a hedge around their around themselves so they
[9:19] don't lose whatever they think they require.
[9:21] You have some blints. Yeah, too.
[9:23] I'm like a middle child. I have middle child syndrome.
[9:25] I'm left-handed as well. If you want textbook, it tells
[9:30] you everything. You need Yeah, I see.
[9:31] And so I'm being raised by a man who was part of Young Pioneers
[9:37] and Coma is more or less. Did he have any influences?
[9:40] Like did he did he feed you with some underpinnings that like
[9:44] influence your life as a person? No.
[9:45] I. Think my dad's generally like my
[9:47] dad studied English literature, that's why I speak well.
[9:50] Like I was listening to BBC from like 6, OK, six years old.
[9:55] Like the radio is always on BBC. That's what you listen to.
[9:57] You listen to the news. In school I was always reading,
[10:00] I was always being called to read and stuff like that.
[10:02] Like it's, it was part of this training.
[10:06] Like you read a lot. I've read so many books.
[10:09] Nice. He's not, he was not like, this
[10:13] is how I like to do things. So he was not regimental, right?
[10:17] But you could just sense structure.
[10:21] Like I'm very organised. I'm not, I don't freestyle
[10:24] things. Yeah.
[10:25] And I think that's how we were all brought up.
[10:28] My older sister is a, she's a chartered accountant.
[10:31] It's like she's very smart. I'm not, I'm not that kind of
[10:36] person, right? My younger sister is like an HR
[10:39] specialist. She's also like, very smart.
[10:40] OK, signs into women. Interesting.
[10:44] You know, so and yeah, so like growing up in that household, it
[10:48] was very structured. Yeah.
[10:53] Yeah, like this is what you do. You go to school, you come out
[10:55] from school, this is what you do.
[10:57] You read, you play a bit. We used to go to bed at six,
[11:00] like my kids now like they do 10:00.
[11:02] They said like we come like I used to sleep at 5 days, you
[11:08] know. But yeah, like, and I, I enjoyed
[11:09] that. I think it's it's shaped who I
[11:12] am. OK, but why are you no
[11:13] application now with the kids? Why didn't why didn't you go
[11:15] into bed at? Six it's technically it's not
[11:17] possible like it's not possible I mean look, have you seen that
[11:20] crowd traffic you get home, you close at 5:00 you get home at 7
[11:25] right like it's not by the time you do homework.
[11:28] Have you seen the homework, the schools that let's let's let me
[11:31] get me started on homework home schools like why am I paying you
[11:34] to send me back 17 pieces of homework guys?
[11:38] But that's. Why?
[11:38] I think in the conversation that they want parents to be heavily
[11:41] involved in what the children are doing too, I guess.
[11:45] We're involved, we come for BTU meetings.
[11:49] No, thank you. So about school, right, So
[11:53] vision and someone. I went to Presbyterian Boys
[11:54] secondary school. Yeah.
[11:55] So before that I went to Martin. Boys.
[11:57] Oh, that's got to be there for a long time.
[11:58] Yeah, very, very long. Every person I knew who was like
[12:01] that dance man or so. Exactly.
[12:02] So in dance one, there were two, two, well, three schools.
[12:04] So there's us and the rest. Yeah, yeah.
[12:09] So you unfortunately by. The way.
[12:10] Oh, nice. Yeah, I'm not surprised.
[12:12] Yeah, like I'm, I'm, you see, like I took all the boxes, but
[12:15] then you can't realize that like I'm not as.
[12:21] Yeah. It's a dash to their life.
[12:22] Yeah. OK, good.
[12:23] Both. Parents.
[12:24] Actually, that's nice. Yeah.
[12:25] What's your mom doing? Well, at the time.
[12:28] Yeah. My mom was like a she was like a
[12:30] Jack of all trees. My mom, she used to bake stuff.
[12:33] She used to sell stuff. So I think look.
[12:36] Interesting and. Preparing for this.
[12:37] Then it hits me. So like I was sitting there and
[12:39] I was thinking, do you know what?
[12:40] Like my parents have both been entrepreneur for Yeah.
[12:42] But like ever since I was like young, but I never viewed it as
[12:45] entrepreneurship, right? I just thought that they like
[12:47] they do, they have to do what they have to do.
[12:49] Because learning about you as a person, you have this background
[12:55] of, I mean, you studied finance, the US of Greenwich, right?
[12:59] And from there you've been working, I think HR, actually
[13:02] HR, yeah. Oh, OK.
[13:03] Yeah, that was finance. No, there's so I did like the
[13:05] Stock Exchange stuff later yeah so like I'm I just do like
[13:10] random things like when I got bored, I just enrolling things
[13:13] interesting I. Have a question.
[13:16] So you mentioned it makes it interesting because I feel like
[13:19] it's a string of your mom and your dad.
[13:20] Yes, your dad presents some structure.
[13:23] Your mom A car goose market is your mum.
[13:25] Yes, well, actually no, really. So randomly having a chat with
[13:29] my dad, then he says to me, oh, like back in the day I used to
[13:32] organise like this goose. I'm like, what do you mean?
[13:33] Like how are you now telling me this?
[13:36] Yeah, but I mean, as somebody who is doing multiple things, a
[13:40] car goose market gifts that night.
[13:42] Yes, your dad was in what's it called?
[13:45] Scholar English literature. And then you seem to have, like,
[13:48] a bag of working with, like, companies on that front and
[13:51] communications, communications, communications.
[13:53] Yeah. So like a very funny play of
[13:55] both parents in your life. Yeah.
[13:57] OK. So you went to Presbyterian
[13:59] boys. OK What did you study?
[13:59] Presbyterian Boys. Business.
[14:02] Business. Yeah.
[14:02] And then from there you went to US of Greenwich.
[14:04] Yeah. How'd you end up there?
[14:05] What? Do you mean?
[14:07] You were at SAT because you live in Ghana that time, no?
[14:10] No, no, so you don't. So the UK system is different
[14:13] from the from the American system, so it's only America
[14:18] requires you to. Do it's oh the in the UK.
[14:21] How do you end up there? I wanted to go there.
[14:25] I mean, but that's great. No, but like basically.
[14:31] So I think so when I finished for SEC, it was around that time
[14:36] when you had to wait like 2 years to go into uni, like two
[14:39] or three years, because there's like a backlog of, I mean, this
[14:42] is showing my age. But like, yeah, like you had to
[14:45] wait. You couldn't automatically just
[14:47] get into uni. Yeah, this is around 2000.
[14:50] And 2000. And 112, OK.
[14:52] Exactly. So as I'm not going to like sit
[14:55] around and wait when you could, you know, like enter into uni
[14:59] elsewhere. OK.
[15:01] So there, that's how I ended up in in the University of Venice
[15:04] Greenway. OK, I picked what's in my
[15:08] opinion was like the easiest. I don't like stress, you know,
[15:11] like a lot of people think that I would like.
[15:14] So everybody assumes that like I was a science student.
[15:16] I, there's, I, I, I could not have made it.
[15:20] I'm not that type of, no, I'm. Not OK.
[15:22] So before our crowd, goods markets, yes, which of Greenwich
[15:26] do you do anything business in there?
[15:28] No. OK.
[15:30] So now after there you, you work with a couple of organizations
[15:33] and one thing I realized is that you haven't stayed more than a
[15:37] year or two in a, in an organization, the one you stayed
[15:41] for two years in Johannesburg in South Africa, I was away.
[15:44] What were you looking for? I was away.
[15:46] What was I looking for in Joburg?
[15:47] No, like why are you, where are you jumping ships?
[15:49] Like where do you think I was coming from?
[15:51] OK, no. So I think it's, it's my
[15:56] personality, right? I don't, I don't settle.
[16:00] If I don't like something, I move on.
[16:02] OK. And so if you would notice, even
[16:05] with my work, it's always been like that.
[16:08] And when I go for interviews, I'm asked like, yeah, but you
[16:10] only have three months. Why?
[16:12] Why? So I'm a flight risk.
[16:15] Yeah. But you see, the beauty of
[16:16] having someone like me work for you is that you get the best out
[16:20] of it. You'd, like, enjoy a while
[16:21] someday, which is what I mean, you know, every time the
[16:26] conversation is around, why did you leave?
[16:28] Right. But we're not asking employers
[16:30] why didn't why didn't you keep them?
[16:32] Did you create an environment enough for him to want to stay?
[16:36] Because we don't have enough jobs in Ghana, for example,
[16:39] people throw things that you and expect you to just settle for
[16:42] it. And that's not me.
[16:43] I think I'm too skilled to sit in a job I don't like.
[16:48] And so for me, that's it. Like when I get tired, I move
[16:49] on. I'm not.
[16:50] You can't hold me, handsome you. Have two handsome OK, so well so
[16:58] you've been acquiring good market for 10 years and that's
[17:00] very out of character for somebody with who is flight risk
[17:04] yes, who gets body. Really, we see flight risk for
[17:06] other people, but not for something that I'm passionate
[17:09] about. How do you get the experience?
[17:11] Like could that probably means you kept the experience exciting
[17:14] for yourself in the past decade? Yes.
[17:16] How have you done that for yourself and for your look
[17:19] vendors? So value, I realized what my why
[17:25] was early enough. And I think that's very
[17:27] important for a lot of businesses.
[17:29] If, if you want to, to run a business, you need to understand
[17:33] what your Y is. A lot of people don't know what
[17:34] their Y is, right? So I I realized that I build
[17:38] value for small businesses. OK.
[17:41] And so long as I continue to provide that value, they would
[17:44] continue to support me. And so I have made chance.
[17:47] We've been with me since the very first markets, OK.
[17:51] And they've expanded into different things, you know, so
[17:53] maybe they started off selling so cosmetics, for example, and
[17:58] now they're like a tie and dye fabric, small batch, handmade,
[18:03] beautiful designs. Talking about tanpuri, by the
[18:05] way. You know, And yeah, like
[18:09] entrepreneurs like that just keep me going.
[18:11] Look, every single year in the last five years, I've said this
[18:15] is going to be my last year. But here we are, you know?
[18:19] But yeah, I think it's just knowing the kind of impact that
[18:22] we have on these small businesses.
[18:23] And lots of people would say, look, I'm so happy that, you
[18:27] know, I came to the markets like I'm happy that we've been able
[18:30] to build a relationship. We've we've built like a base of
[18:33] customers, you know, and I think for me, there's still a lot more
[18:38] that we can do. And that's why it it like I can
[18:41] wake up every year and still keep going.
[18:43] I haven't even scratched the surface of what I want to do
[18:46] with the markets, you know? It's good.
[18:48] That's that's good to hear. So that because I knew I missed
[18:51] that, you won't wake up tomorrow morning and say I'm done.
[18:54] Not, not, not the markets. You know, I think that the the
[18:57] markets and the the reason is that it's like an ecosystem
[19:00] where you can just plug and play.
[19:01] OK. So if, for example, I decided to
[19:04] start a payments company, I have an ecosystem of merchants that
[19:11] can pilot the projects. If I wanted to create like a
[19:14] software that allows merchants to be able to track trade and
[19:17] stuff like that, I have an ecosystem for that.
[19:20] If I wanted to train, if I wanted to offer training as a
[19:23] business, I have an ecosystem that I can.
[19:25] So it's it's it's it's, it's multi.
[19:29] Pronged. Yeah.
[19:31] Interesting. Yeah, I gather that's this.
[19:36] The idea is to came to you when you were in South Africa.
[19:39] It was reinforced. Reinforced in South Africa,
[19:41] right and you've said this opine air market there and it oh this
[19:47] exciting yeah. And then it came to Ghana.
[19:49] You have to replicate it. Can you?
[19:51] Can you? Challenge about that.
[19:53] I think nostalgia is like, I get very nostalgic, you know, I miss
[19:59] things and I like, I like, I like nice things.
[20:04] I like to be comfortable. I, I don't I, I know that in
[20:08] this part of the world we like to glorify suffering, but it's
[20:12] not for me. It's not for me.
[20:14] I, I, I didn't have to wash 5000 plates.
[20:19] I love to sell. Yeah.
[20:21] Like cassettes? Yeah.
[20:23] No, no, yeah. That's not I don't, I would not.
[20:25] I wouldn't survive in that. Yeah.
[20:27] But I think what I noticed was, and even around my school in
[20:32] Greenwich, there were markets, you know, there were open air
[20:34] markets where different things were sold.
[20:37] But I, I noticed that in Ghana, we, we actually did have, we, we
[20:41] had open open air markets when I was growing up, the Ghana Trade
[20:44] Fair Company was, was, it was an open air, well, they had
[20:48] pavilions. But yeah, but the, but it was
[20:50] there I think. And I used to go there as a
[20:52] child. Yeah, even in our like currently
[20:54] in our villages, those people who grew outside the car, yes,
[20:57] there were markets. These markets these.
[20:58] So they can choose the every people from the neighboring come
[21:01] in so calm, then they'll go so you know.
[21:04] Exactly. So I think for me it was like,
[21:06] how do I bridge that gap? Because trade fair would sound
[21:11] so old, you know, And so then bridging the gap between
[21:16] something that's slightly modern, something that's
[21:19] slightly tuned to the liking of younger people, you know, and I
[21:26] think the, the neighborhood's market was like a perfect
[21:28] example of that. It's very, it's, it's full of
[21:33] people who make things, you know, like if it's food people
[21:36] who they make their own bread, they make their own jams.
[21:40] They, they make their own brine for marinating meats.
[21:46] Like, I was just blown away by how much people wanted to be
[21:50] known for things they make, you know, And and then I just
[21:54] thought about like all the entrepreneurs and done and how
[21:56] that could like, just be like a nice easy fix.
[22:00] But it was, yeah. It was for my own satisfaction
[22:03] just to be, to be able to enjoy, you know, like going out.
[22:07] I like outdoor things. I'm not in as much as like, I
[22:11] like to stay at home, like I I also like to just spend some
[22:14] time quietly listening to music in the background, eating nice
[22:17] food and just chatting with people.
[22:20] I see. So I know the first event was
[22:22] like on 5th March 2015. Yeah.
[22:25] So 10 years now. Yeah.
[22:27] And has it played out the way you envisioned it to play out
[22:30] when you're in Joburg or when you came to college?
[22:32] I didn't. So that's the thing I didn't
[22:33] like. I didn't.
[22:34] I didn't have any expectations. Expectations.
[22:36] So I so for example, I set up the social handles for the
[22:39] market in 2012. I didn't start the market until
[22:41] three years later. OK, so I was literally just like
[22:45] playing with the idea in my head just until I felt like I was
[22:48] ready. So just before I started them, I
[22:51] used to work for a company called Blue Telecom.
[22:55] At the time we were one of the 4G telcos.
[22:59] Oh, OK. Like back in the day when when
[23:02] 4G was was not yet open to the main telcos.
[23:07] Yeah. And when I quit that job, I was
[23:10] like, this is the perfect time to to start the market.
[23:13] Yeah. And so that's how it was best
[23:16] literally with stuff from my previous job.
[23:20] So how's the market different? I mean, together you see it's
[23:22] modding, but how is it really different from like the market
[23:25] to be experienced, you know, market to this type thing?
[23:29] How? How is it different?
[23:30] I think it's, I think so. The difference for us is
[23:32] curation in terms of who I select.
[23:36] OK. So our, our merchants will go
[23:38] through, they fill a form, they, they, they show us their social
[23:42] handles. I mean, there's some data we
[23:43] collect. So I basically then would go
[23:45] onto the page and see how, how do you compliment the other
[23:50] merchants that we have, for example.
[23:52] And so there are times when I, I can even, I would maybe just
[23:55] scrolling on Instagram, find a business that I think would be a
[23:57] good fit for the market. And I would approach them and I
[24:00] would, you know, get them to come to the market, even if it's
[24:03] if it's for free. So I think for the odd
[24:05] difference is curation. And I think that's why we've
[24:07] been able to, to stay on for 10 years.
[24:10] Because The thing is that you, you never know what to expect in
[24:13] terms of a merchants, you know, and I think now a lot of young
[24:18] people are willing to put some work into their, their crafts.
[24:24] You know, like my merchants are creating videos, they're
[24:27] creating reels, they're advertising before the market,
[24:30] they're running discounts, they have games and they they offer
[24:34] freebies. It's evolved from like the very
[24:36] first market that we had. And, and that's how I know that
[24:40] we've been able to to shift culture in terms of how pop ups
[24:45] are held. You know, typically for other
[24:47] people who just go set up and expect that people randomly just
[24:49] walk out to them, you know, but that, and that's the one thing I
[24:52] say to anybody who wants to come to the market.
[24:54] If you sit at your desk, nobody will mind you, you know.
[24:57] So yeah, I think that's, that's how different we are.
[25:02] I think our choice of music as well.
[25:05] OK. Yeah, we, we seem to have like
[25:09] good teachers. Yeah.
[25:11] OK. So, so you're just saying you're
[25:14] very interested about creating a cultural experience for people
[25:19] and from what you said, you're onboarding how how are you
[25:22] onboarding the vendors? So reaching out to the most
[25:24] social media. No.
[25:25] So we have, so there's a link like in our Instagram bio and
[25:29] then we collect basic info and then from there we make a
[25:33] decision, we reach out to them, send them payment terms and then
[25:37] that's it. It's not complicated.
[25:39] So the, so the model is essentially the these vendors
[25:43] are paying to be at the events. Yeah.
[25:46] OK. Yeah, that's interesting.
[25:49] Yeah. So basically that, that payment
[25:51] covers all the costs, the costs we and K as well.
[25:55] So it's sustainable in the sense that so long as we have
[25:57] merchants that the business was to Lexus.
[25:59] So you're in a car, Yes. What's the plan?
[26:02] Do you have plan of moving to other parts of Ghana?
[26:05] So we've seen other people like mimic the idea in other parts of
[26:09] of of the country and it it it didn't work.
[26:12] Why even to the extent that, you know, like they even used goods
[26:17] market was in there, you know, no, but I think it's it's also
[26:22] how many people do we have in? I mean, outside of a crowd that
[26:29] will identify with what we're doing, you know, so, so they're
[26:34] businesses, right? But they may not necessarily be
[26:38] for the audience that we have. So for example, if you're
[26:41] selling honey at my market, you won't, you won't sell that many
[26:46] because like, because my audience, the kind of people who
[26:48] come to my market, honey is not, that's not their primary
[26:51] concern. What are they looking for?
[26:54] They're looking for, they're young people, they're looking
[26:55] for stylish clothes. They're looking for a brand that
[26:58] can turn jewellery into something they haven't seen
[27:00] before. Do you see what I mean?
[27:02] They're looking for. Oh, yeah.
[27:05] And there's the new thing with sustainability, like what the
[27:07] young people like, are you best friendly and stuff like it's
[27:10] your brand. What's your, what's your, what's
[27:13] your governance structure? What's your sustainability plan?
[27:15] Are you harming the environment? And I'm like.
[27:18] Guys, can you just. Can you just buy the thing and
[27:20] go? But it's, it's a trend now.
[27:22] And I think that's another thing that we need to start
[27:24] considering, you know? Yeah, So I I didn't considering
[27:29] I think it's not an internal skill scaling thing like the
[27:34] regional, I mean the sub-saharan region or the.
[27:36] Continental Yeah. So what I actually want to do is
[27:39] to be able to and, and, and I think that would mitigate the
[27:43] problem with not having presence outside of a car, but
[27:46] essentially being able to post and a crowd goods market with a
[27:51] number of brands from Nigeria, for example, or brands from
[27:53] Sierra Leone or, or brands from Gambia or brands from South
[27:57] Africa. So they would come here, we
[27:58] would have a market and then we can identify a market in other
[28:01] parts of Africa as well. And we would take some of our
[28:03] merchants and we would attend those events.
[28:07] You know, it's, it's part of the bigger conversation around the
[28:11] Africa Free Trade Act, You know, so the, the, it's, I think it's
[28:18] a matter of time. I asked this because like I seem
[28:21] concerned about you have a great tool on your hands.
[28:24] There is this conversation going on about how the African
[28:28] continent is lagging the way we are lagging by say, 2000 USB
[28:34] behind the West and the other parts of the world because we
[28:39] were out of the loop way on the Silk Road, you know, for
[28:45] thousands of years, the rest of the world was trading on the
[28:47] so-called from China in the East to the Middle East to Europe,
[28:53] right? And it makes sense for
[28:54] exchanging ideas and technological advancement.
[28:57] And then the rest of the world was going on and Africa was cut
[28:59] out because of the Sahara, right?
[29:02] And so the marketplace is a marketplace where there's
[29:06] exchange of ideas, mindset can shift and things can happen for
[29:09] us, right? And you have that too, right?
[29:14] It must work well for our continent.
[29:16] I didn't like it must it must you, you it must board in that
[29:21] regard. Yeah, you see.
[29:22] And then like push, that's an idea, right?
[29:26] So in your hands now, what do you think the impact is for you
[29:30] with a cargo's markets? No, I think, I think first and
[29:33] foremost, it's just first and foremost access the market for,
[29:39] for the small business to be able to build capacity to, to
[29:42] then compete. You see, the, the first problem
[29:46] that we have is that the small business do not have enough
[29:51] skills. They, they don't know what it
[29:54] means to run a business. They, they've, they've stumbled
[29:57] upon entrepreneurship as a, as a result of poverty, like I need
[30:02] to, to survive. So let me start selling these
[30:05] shoes or, or these bags, but we need to now build capacity where
[30:10] they understand what they're doing.
[30:11] They understand what it means to ready yourself for investment.
[30:14] They understand what it means to, they understand standards.
[30:18] For example, we don't have standards.
[30:20] So you want to export to Nigeria, but there's slippers
[30:23] that you've made. We walked 10 minutes and it is
[30:25] coming off because you blew this and you didn't stitch it right.
[30:28] Or the type of glue that we need to understand that to, to be
[30:31] able to trade with the rest of of the world their, their
[30:34] standards, There's certifications.
[30:37] We need to meet those, you know, so I think, yeah, like we need
[30:39] to start from all of those basics.
[30:41] I, I grant you access to markets, but we also need to now
[30:45] build on, on, on that, You know, we, we train people.
[30:49] I mean, that's why you, you sort of identify as a business
[30:52] support network, I guess. Thought.
[30:55] What has changed? No, because I get like I
[30:58] mentioned, you need, you need everybody in in that ecosystem
[31:01] to make it happen. So for example, I would need
[31:04] somebody who comes to me and says, look, I can train your
[31:07] merchants. Let me formulate A curriculum,
[31:11] right? Nobody's come to me.
[31:13] Do you see what I mean? Everybody's just interested in
[31:18] like, what can I get out of the merchants?
[31:20] But no one's literally sitting with me and saying, for example,
[31:23] OK, I understand that you're creating the trade side of
[31:26] things. This is what we can do for
[31:27] training. This is what we can do for
[31:29] payments. This is what we can do for, I
[31:33] don't know, maybe like we're travel and Tour Company.
[31:37] We've identified 10 trade exhibitions outside of Ghana
[31:40] that we think will be beneficial for your merchants.
[31:43] Let's find a way to get them to participate.
[31:46] So these are like problems you are facing against scaling I
[31:49] guess. I think.
[31:50] So if they're not companies, you are not going to them.
[31:52] Because my key focus is on trade shows.
[31:55] OK. Right.
[31:57] Like I, I can't solve all of the world's problems.
[32:02] You have to pick your battles, right?
[32:05] And and and you see, and that's another problem with when you
[32:08] try to do too much, that's another problem with like
[32:11] running a business in this part of the world, if you try to do
[32:14] too much, you will die. Yeah.
[32:16] Because that's not your your core mandates, your skill sets
[32:19] are limited in terms of what you can do right.
[32:22] So imagine trying to be a Jack of all trades is the quickest
[32:25] way to feel. And in Africa, you only get one
[32:28] shot. I, I know that like in Europe,
[32:31] they say you'll feel fast in in Africa, if you feel fast,
[32:34] that's, that's. Fast and big things.
[32:36] That's it. It's the end for you because you
[32:37] only get one shot, right? Why do you think that's a sore?
[32:41] The terrain is, is difficult. It's not like do you know the
[32:44] the problems that we have. If you, if you get the chance to
[32:49] create a business and you mess it up, that's it.
[32:52] We move on. We don't have time to support
[32:55] you. If if like we don't have the
[32:56] time for you to be a three times founder and you're trying to
[32:59] figure out what you're doing. You literally need to get it
[33:02] right from the get go so that we can decide that, OK, that's why
[33:05] we're behind this chart. And so we don't have time.
[33:09] There's so many, so many ideas, so many small businesses.
[33:14] Everyone's trying to make it. We can't spend 10 years waiting
[33:17] for you to find yourself. And that's a problem with the
[33:20] continent. Why is that so?
[33:22] Is it OK? Do you think it's like a
[33:24] government problem? Is it like a mindset problem?
[33:29] So you can essentially. It's a combination of things,
[33:32] right? It's a combination of things.
[33:35] To register a business, you, you can't do it online.
[33:38] You have to print the paper and walk to RGD and submit it.
[33:43] Why? Why is that?
[33:46] Why did you laugh? Why?
[33:50] Why is this right? What?
[33:52] Meanwhile, I can, I can create a company in the UK sitting in my
[33:55] house. I can create a company in the US
[33:56] sitting in my house. So.
[33:59] So does that answer your question on, on the bottlenecks?
[34:02] That's one. Yeah #2 access to markets is
[34:06] another thing, right? We don't even what, what's the
[34:10] market size? There's no data.
[34:12] Someone's filling his Facebook profile.
[34:15] He says he went, he lives in Chicago.
[34:17] The guy is living in a shaman. So you're trying to target
[34:20] people to advertise to. You've got wrong data.
[34:24] He's listed there a number of movies he says he's watched.
[34:26] He hasn't watched a single one of them.
[34:29] He's skewing your data. So in your mind, you've
[34:31] identified the potential customer, but all of the
[34:35] information, all that data is wrong.
[34:38] So it doesn't help you. Like there's there's so many
[34:40] little things that just do not help us.
[34:43] Yeah. You know, to be able to, to get
[34:45] out of whatever problem that we're in.
[34:48] But I mean, again, collaboration is another thing.
[34:50] Everybody, we, we would rather have 10.
[34:54] In fact, 10 is small. We would rather have 100
[34:57] businesses making $1.00 than have one making a million
[35:03] because everybody just wants their hand in the pipe.
[35:07] Nobody, nobody wants to work with anyone.
[35:09] You'd always hear stories about how we tried to work with this
[35:12] guy. He cheated me.
[35:13] In fact, I had one on your podcast.
[35:17] Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's not like
[35:20] where it requires you to, to be grounded.
[35:25] Yeah. You know, like, and I, and I say
[35:27] this so that people can understand that it's, it's the
[35:30] only way you can make it. It's the only way you can make
[35:33] it. We don't, we don't collaborate.
[35:36] We don't want to collaborate. We're not interested in
[35:37] collaboration. That's one thing I remember
[35:39] having a conversation with me and Car, he was talking about
[35:41] how that's why Nigerians will have billionaires and we will
[35:44] not have yes, if they think like Trans Core, almost all the
[35:48] Nigerian billionaires are on there pushing capital in there.
[35:52] Banora, Ghana. Yeah, but here the Lebanese and
[35:54] the Indians do that. Have you?
[35:56] Have you, have you paid attention to the Lebanese
[35:59] people? Yeah.
[36:01] I prepare attention to that frugality.
[36:03] Even outside of SO look, basically Kia is Lebanese.
[36:10] Varco is owned by Kia Paints. It's owned that say there's a
[36:14] paint company, it's still owned by the Kia guy.
[36:18] So that's one conglomerate. They didn't take Lakeside.
[36:22] Then Lakeside Command for 4 Silver Star.
[36:28] Yeah, and those are the ones we knew, right?
[36:30] He would have other businesses we don't know about.
[36:33] Then there's Papaya, then there's CCTC.
[36:39] So now Papaya will buy the rice from CCTC, Dubai Oil, everything
[36:42] from there. When they want to eat where they
[36:44] go, they go to Papaya or they go to Lagalet or they go to any
[36:47] Lebanese owned restaurant in if they want to buy a car, they go
[36:52] to Kia or Hyundai. We're not part of their plans.
[36:56] And I think that's as a government, you need to realize
[36:58] that you need to break that mood.
[37:01] Like we're not involved. There's no Ghanaian in their
[37:04] ecosystem. The only Ghanaians that you work
[37:06] for them, even the people who get access to the apartments
[37:09] that they give to their staff, they're not Ghanaians.
[37:12] They're all Lebanese people. Look at the Indians.
[37:15] Look at Malcolm. How has Malcolm overnight been
[37:19] able to expand so quickly? They're bigger than game.
[37:22] They're bigger than shoprites. Malcolm, there's a short
[37:25] liquidity event. Yeah, yes, we used yes.
[37:29] This is a there's a brand that we wouldn't even like, wouldn't
[37:31] even bat an eyelid. That's Malcolm.
[37:33] Going over that is cheap. We don't go there, right.
[37:36] I know guys. I was there yesterday.
[37:40] This is what I mean. Like we're not.
[37:42] Am I it would mindset has to shifts and mindset shifts and
[37:48] hopefully these conversations that we put out and they will
[37:50] help. Somehow it's not even just
[37:52] mindset, like we're not primed. Again, when you go to school,
[37:57] the primary objective for us is you finish and get a job.
[38:01] Yeah. So let's say mindset
[38:02] conversation. Do you?
[38:04] Think that as a apart from going to a chassis, do you think that
[38:08] if you went to Ligon, your father invested and used to go
[38:11] to Ligon, If you say that that you want to start your own
[38:13] business, like do you genuinely think that he's going to if he's
[38:17] not rich? Are you going to Ashesi?
[38:19] No, I'm saying, and I'm using Ashesi because Ashesi, that's
[38:23] where they are taught, taught to be entrepreneurial, right.
[38:26] But I'm saying that if you went to tech, you went to do
[38:29] medicine, for example, you, you're done after six years.
[38:31] So you want to do. And then you're telling your dad
[38:33] that you want to you you've you found a gap in the market and.
[38:38] You like he will kill you. So that's like the conversations
[38:41] like this will fill in the gap and inform people that because
[38:45] for me, for example, I had the bag, I went OK, well, when I was
[38:49] in Senior High School, everybody expected to be a doctor, go to
[38:52] uni doing well on top of my class.
[38:56] And all of a sudden, I told my dad that I think I did my
[38:59] internship at a Ted year. I said this is not what I want
[39:02] to do. I don't want to be an engineer.
[39:04] It's not exciting. You know, that wasn't the
[39:06] freedom I was expecting was in there.
[39:08] And then I read Kiyosaki's respect for that.
[39:14] That was the first stroke of OK, something, there's something
[39:16] else, an alternative. We had this program, we had this
[39:23] ERX program. I was in Senior High School.
[39:25] So the Ghana, but the county foundation partners with Ashesi
[39:28] and it takes students, Senior High School students to be
[39:30] playing. You have you hear these things
[39:31] going on and that makes you consider, oh, the life outside
[39:35] medicine. You can be a computer engineer,
[39:37] you can program, you can do these things, but still the
[39:40] heavy, the early influence is strong.
[39:42] You go into university, you still think you want to be an
[39:44] engineer or a doctor. And I read this book and for me,
[39:48] even with that, when I decided that, OK, well, I'm going to
[39:50] start doing something on my own and build things on my own after
[39:53] school, well, I got nabbed by an organization.
[39:56] I was getting comfortable until the police actually broke out,
[40:00] right. And so I think there are people
[40:02] like me who will who actually venture out to do things, but
[40:07] then they have to hear the stories.
[40:09] Somebody has to reach them and say, OK, this is possible.
[40:13] There's an alternative you can build, you see so.
[40:18] It will get there. Look.
[40:19] When we started the market, there were so many markets that
[40:23] started around the same time, at least 10, some had similar names
[40:30] there. There was even, there was even
[40:32] Lagos goods markets, you know there were markets that.
[40:36] No, there were Lagos, OK, but I. Know Lagos goods market, Let's
[40:42] be serious, you know, but it, it, it was, it's just not, it's
[40:48] just a conversation we want to have right?
[40:50] 10 years down the line, longevity has proven that they
[40:54] were not in it for the business. Geez, what?
[40:57] I mean, it's you if there's there's nothing wrong with
[41:01] starting a business, don't get me wrong, but I'm saying that if
[41:04] you're doing something that someone else is doing, why not
[41:07] think about a way to work? Together.
[41:09] Yeah, and and and grow faster. You know, we always quote the
[41:14] African pro if you want to go far, but we don't live it.
[41:18] You think it's like, is it? Is it peculiar together and take
[41:21] care of the whole thing, the whole continent?
[41:23] I mean, it's a constant problem, but I think Ganians generally,
[41:26] like we, we have our own issues on top of the continental
[41:29] issues. You know, I feel like we, we
[41:31] talk. We, we don't walk the walk.
[41:33] We, we, we don't walk the talk, right?
[41:35] That's it. Like we talk, we don't, we don't
[41:37] walk. It's strange because growing up
[41:39] it's like we were taught to always help and work together.
[41:43] And if, if actually, if you grew up in a house with, with
[41:46] siblings and parents were always trying to make sure there was no
[41:51] rivalry. You guys were working together,
[41:53] eat together symbol. But why isn't it translated into
[41:57] our? Ecosystem is not built to foster
[42:02] things like this. Like, for example, I'll give an
[42:04] example, I used to work in a chassis, so I understand why a
[42:07] chassis is the way it is and why they've gotten where they've
[42:09] gotten to and it's not it's not vibes.
[42:13] It's not let's test it out and see there's like those are plan,
[42:17] right? It started in Laboni.
[42:19] They had a small campus. They had just three buildings
[42:22] they had bought landing because who they had decided that maybe
[42:24] in the next 5 years we're going to start building in five years.
[42:27] It started. There was no, we couldn't raise
[42:29] the money. So we're not starting.
[42:31] We have to find find like other sources of funding to make
[42:34] happen. You need a certain level of
[42:37] grits, a certain level of I want to do this to not give up in, in
[42:43] like a terrain like this. And I think essentially that's
[42:45] that's what we don't have. You should do what I mean
[42:48] someone like Patrick right you worked with you worked at
[42:51] Microsoft, yes exposure yes he he had first hand accurate of a
[42:56] story play out yes and so out of that yes, he comes and he wants
[43:00] to replicate yes. People don't necessarily have to
[43:05] be have experiential encounter with the stories to have a
[43:11] mindset conversations like this kind of that.
[43:14] But let me I'm very hopeful when I tell my friends I think Africa
[43:18] will be great again, they think it's like, oh, it's I'm so
[43:22] convicted about it. Even though like internally,
[43:26] externally it's like all the all it's like gangsters and the
[43:29] global skill even like the global economic system has been
[43:33] like have been modest that you it keeps your necessary rank as
[43:37] a continent just to exploit you and take all of that right.
[43:41] But I'm. So sure, like, but I think it's
[43:45] kind of shifting. Yeah.
[43:46] But but we're also like a part of the problem, right?
[43:50] So I can tell you that there are probably 100 small businesses
[43:56] that are doing well. But if, if they gain visibility
[44:00] or exposure, their businesses will collapse because things
[44:05] like tax regimes would, would cripple them.
[44:08] Things like expenditure will go up.
[44:12] I found out there's, there's like a shoe factory in debris.
[44:15] It wasn't any reason like mum or something, right?
[44:18] Why can't the government say that all the secondary schools
[44:21] or the something like our work program that allows them to
[44:26] directly supply footwear to schools they don't need, they
[44:32] don't need a loan that that's access to market.
[44:35] If they're able to sell 1000 shoes, it changes their, their
[44:38] books significantly. It's not everybody assumes that
[44:41] like we need money. We need, we don't need money.
[44:43] That's not what we need their, their policies.
[44:47] We should have Kantanka, for example, right?
[44:51] I mean, I, I don't like the vehicles because it's, it's, it
[44:55] does, but I'm sure that if they had enough money, it would
[44:59] probably change that. I'll tell you, I'll tell you
[45:01] what, in South Africa, when you finish university, by 1819,
[45:06] you'll be outside university. Your first car will be a G2, now
[45:11] G2, it has air conditioning, it has power windows, it has CD
[45:15] player and everything. Literally it's like the start of
[45:19] your journey as a, as a first time worker that's there for
[45:22] you. You can apply for a mortgage to
[45:25] buy a small house and that's South Africa.
[45:28] What prevents us from doing that?
[45:30] In Ghana, they're assembling the vehicles.
[45:31] In South Africa, we're assembling vehicles here.
[45:34] The vehicles here cost more than if you imported, if you imported
[45:37] 1. So it's, we don't have our
[45:40] systems that are not designed to ensure that we're, we're going
[45:44] for it. It's it's a lot of, it's
[45:45] government policy. That's true.
[45:48] And there's this conversation about how we know we have
[45:53] governments, but usually African governments are puppet
[45:55] governments, you know, African puppet government.
[45:59] And so maybe the people in power want to do something, but they
[46:04] are hunter tied. And so they really can't do
[46:07] much. They have to keep us going in
[46:09] circles for this, for the powers that be, right?
[46:14] And so like I always say that individuals who have built
[46:20] things on their own and have made the money are like the
[46:24] gateway to our economic liberation as a continent.
[46:28] Yeah, but that's why I ask you, what's their incentive to do
[46:30] that? What's their what's, what would
[46:33] motivate? I mean, forget the the younger
[46:36] generation of people who are collaborative.
[46:39] Right. Well, now the middle people have
[46:40] forgotten about them all. Now, I, I, I can like, I see how
[46:43] young people just do things. Yeah, I've noticed that people,
[46:45] they just, they want it to happen.
[46:46] They make it happen, right. But you're dealing with like a
[46:49] systemic problem of a generation that's just not they were not
[46:55] brought up to they're not possibly open minded.
[47:01] Everything for them is 1 dimensional.
[47:03] This is this is when you make money, you build a house, one in
[47:06] your hometown, one in a crab, Yeah.
[47:08] And then you add one in America, you know, but but we measure
[47:11] wealth by the visible things. Yeah.
[47:13] So for example, I have to see that I have I mean, like, why do
[47:16] we have let me know if we're good.
[47:20] Why do we have an auto museum when when there are so many kids
[47:25] in school? That that doesn't make sense.
[47:27] Like that doesn't make sense at all.
[47:30] Why can't you build something else?
[47:32] Yeah, You got OK, You have the money.
[47:34] If you have $100 million, start a fund.
[47:36] Yeah, a fund that is. OK.
[47:38] Let's tackle this problem. Yeah.
[47:40] Don't you see how the Bill and Melinda, for example, the
[47:44] bouquisa, these people are being intentional, you see, Because at
[47:49] some point, don't you get bored? You just spend your money, OK,
[47:53] But who knows? You have money, like, don't you
[47:54] get bored? Don't you get tired?
[47:58] There are, there are, there are individuals who are making a
[48:00] difference, but they're not here.
[48:02] Another example, look at Swanika Africa leadership.
[48:08] Where, where's the university base ready?
[48:11] There was one. There's there's one in Cape
[48:13] Town, there's one in Mauritius, there's one in Rwanda.
[48:16] There's none here. What we have here is ALX, which
[48:19] is like the beta version. It's like the beta version of
[48:22] everything else. We don't take ourselves
[48:26] seriously enough for others to take us seriously, and that's
[48:29] the truth of our matter. We're looking at 1,000,000
[48:32] coders, right? To what end?
[48:35] They learn to code, Then what? We don't have infrastructure
[48:39] that the coders are going into. I went to Singapore maybe
[48:43] 20/16/2017. They had a whole Tech City.
[48:47] They don't use iPhones and I mean they do, but it's not a
[48:49] thing. They have their own brand of
[48:51] phones and laptops. It was like a whole Tech City
[48:53] dedicated to building products that everyday consumer would
[48:57] use. 18 the guys are making more phones.
[49:02] It's intentional. It's it's something, it's in a
[49:05] plan. We don't have a plan.
[49:07] We don't have a national plan. We don't have a blueprint, we
[49:09] don't have anything. Bill, last year I was talking to
[49:13] friend. I was talking about how I think
[49:16] one of the major reforms we need as a country is to get a legally
[49:19] bound national economic plan. Exactly.
[49:22] Like if you take China in the 70s, China changed their
[49:25] trajectory when danger pink. OK, well, yeah, this is what we
[49:28] want to do over the next couple of years.
[49:30] And in the middle, legally bound, like whoever comes,
[49:33] you're following the plan exactly.
[49:35] But here we are. Yeah.
[49:38] No, but I mean these are kind if you read said world to face
[49:41] world. Leak on you.
[49:42] It's. It's not a.
[49:44] In Kumar, in Kumar was trying. I mean he got conceived at some
[49:48] point. I mean I understand the reason
[49:49] for his absence is sometimes. But like well, again, there are
[49:53] other parts at play. But I, I, I think, look, if
[49:56] you're committed to helping, if you're committed to development,
[50:00] it will happen. There are private partner
[50:02] agencies that can give you funding and they do all of the
[50:05] work. There's MasterCard Foundation,
[50:06] they're doing a lot of training. There's GIZ, they're doing a lot
[50:08] of training. There's a lot of funding, but
[50:10] you also need to be involved in the projects.
[50:14] You also, so you need to figure out what your end goal is.
[50:17] Where do I want these people to go?
[50:19] What sector of the economy am I looking to build?
[50:21] You know, we can't just restart this.
[50:25] And I think for me, that's my frustration.
[50:27] We, it's not that we don't have brilliant projects or brilliant
[50:29] people. They just get tired of talking.
[50:33] That's true. And then they just focus on
[50:35] what's important to them and that's it.
[50:38] Hopefully we don't get tired. No, but I think you're young.
[50:41] I'm old, like I've had enough. It's true.
[50:46] You know. So the car goose markets, I know
[50:49] you guys, you you only you have the market on public holidays
[50:53] still seeing. Yeah.
[50:55] OK. All right.
[50:56] So what's what are the next steps looking like?
[50:58] What's what's what are the future after 10 years?
[51:00] What are the future hold? So I think, and that's why I
[51:04] mentioned the, the idea for me has evolved all the time.
[51:08] I think now I see it more as a so not not even like a business
[51:15] support network but more but more like a mini incubator of
[51:18] businesses. OK.
[51:20] So now the next step is for me, I'm looking for, I'm looking to
[51:23] create like, like a, like AVC, like a better capital capital
[51:29] thing where we have funding for the small businesses.
[51:33] Because I think now I understand what the businesses are doing,
[51:36] you know, I understand who wants to be there for the long haul.
[51:38] I understand who's just doing this as a hobby.
[51:40] I know who needs look. The number of small batch
[51:45] producing merchants that I have in the skin hair care industry,
[51:51] all they need is like a production house.
[51:53] Imagine we had like a production house where they can take their
[51:56] their raw materials, go and process it, package it.
[52:00] It will make their life simple. They don't need to be at home
[52:03] with a small machine and they can do 10 at a time and they
[52:06] have to wait for the machine to cool down because it's become
[52:09] hot. Then you can't seal it.
[52:11] Look, and that's why I'm surprised that for all the talk
[52:16] about supporting small businesses, the, the banks want
[52:20] to do it. Plenty people want to do.
[52:23] We don't identify the basic things that they need skin care.
[52:27] Look, I know a brand that's they've never been there before.
[52:30] We started the markets and they're still there.
[52:33] They produce skin care, hair care stuff, I think primarily
[52:36] hair care stuff. And I'm sure they're producing
[52:39] at home or they've had to build their own small ship where they
[52:43] they produce things. But yeah, so that's why that's
[52:46] what I want to move into, looking for ways to add more
[52:49] value to them, to the merchants. If you're, if you're a small
[52:53] business in skin care, hair care, how can we find you like a
[52:56] production house where you can, you know, produce the stuff
[52:59] they're labeling again, standardization for you to be
[53:02] able to export to other countries, they would require
[53:05] you to meet certain standards. We don't have that.
[53:07] How do you run a business? How do you keep your books?
[53:09] How do you know when you made a profit?
[53:10] And lots of businesses don't make, they don't, they generate
[53:13] revenue and they think they made their profits because, I mean,
[53:17] I've sold all the stock I brought.
[53:19] But in terms of how much did you pay for the stand?
[53:21] How much did you pay for what was your transportation cost,
[53:25] the stuff that you brought on the day?
[53:26] How much did that cost you? You know, like all of that needs
[53:29] to to be factored in. They don't factor advertising
[53:33] into cost. They don't factor electricity
[53:34] into cost. Costing is another big thing.
[53:36] We don't know how to cost. It's just I think it's 50C is
[53:41] enough. Vibes.
[53:43] Yeah. You know, so that's I want to be
[53:46] in that space now. I want to like I want to make
[53:49] them proper businesses. I think I have like enough
[53:52] experience across proper work and their crowd goods market to
[53:56] be able to help them to. You got to the guru stage.
[54:00] Not yet. I mean, in Africa you can't even
[54:02] be good because. You're talking about money.
[54:04] To back anybody. OK, so talking about funding and
[54:07] try to start a VC you and I met as a funding event, Yes, yes,
[54:10] where you took all the money and ran away.
[54:11] You took the money. Around.
[54:15] Yeah. How has that journey been for
[54:18] you? Because I mean, it's like a,
[54:19] it's like a common problem for most entrepreneurs in this part
[54:24] of the world or in Ghana, to be precise, access the capital.
[54:29] How have you navigated that? You see the kind of model that
[54:33] we have or the kind of business that we have requires us to.
[54:38] I mean, look, if merchants, if we advertise and merchants pay
[54:41] for the store, which is why we start advertising and event in
[54:45] March, in December so that you can accumulate enough money to
[54:50] go and deposit for like a venue for rentals and stuff like that.
[54:54] Because nobody is, is going to give you their venue because of
[54:59] the fact that you are Craggles Markets, you know, but I mean,
[55:01] for us, fortunately we've, we found a partner in, in, in our
[55:05] current venue. We've been there for like 4
[55:07] years and they've been amazing. So, but yeah, everyone's not
[55:11] guessing that same treatments, you know, So the model is such
[55:16] that the the merchants cater cater for all the expenses so
[55:20] long as we have merchants. We would be in business.
[55:22] OK. So you exactly need external
[55:24] financing to stay alive. External financing would not be
[55:27] to stay alive, but then to create value for exactly.
[55:31] So I think the end. So for me, the end goal after
[55:35] creating this ecosystem and the VC and everything else is to
[55:39] have a permanent location where the merchants can have like
[55:43] shops. So during the week they have
[55:45] like a storefront and then on the weekend it opens into a
[55:48] courtyard where you have a regular cargoes market.
[55:52] OK. So that can even be like maybe
[55:53] once a month or same once a quarter, but throughout the year
[55:57] the merchants would have a space to to sell.
[56:00] That's interesting. Yeah, we've done that before.
[56:02] We used to have like a a store at ANC mall I think five years
[56:06] ago. So we run that for six months.
[56:10] And one of the brands that we had in the shop, they like they
[56:14] did so well that they were able to go and rent their own like
[56:18] really, really big, big store to, to sell stuff.
[56:20] Yeah, interesting. Wait, that that reminds me like
[56:23] you have a part like story of a particular vendor who was with
[56:27] you from probably from this house at some point came along
[56:29] in the journey and has scaled or got bigger because of AKA goods
[56:37] market? Yeah, like I mentioned,
[56:39] Tampouri. OK, so Tampouri, they started
[56:42] off as they were a cosmetic brand.
[56:46] They were making soaps, bath bombs, really amazing stuff.
[56:49] And then they pivoted into fabrics.
[56:53] So they've been with us since, yeah, since inception.
[56:56] Retro eyeglasses. So also since inception, I think
[57:00] we share the same anniversaries as well.
[57:03] There was a boutique called Jay Flu Boutique.
[57:06] She's the one that was in that pop up store and like was able
[57:10] to expand. And yeah, but even more
[57:13] recently, brands like Mino Cosmetics.
[57:17] How does that make you feel? No, I love it.
[57:19] Like I, I actually, I think that's, that's what I I tried
[57:22] on. Like I'm very much like a
[57:25] results person and sometimes people when people apply to the
[57:29] market, I'm like, I don't think you do well here.
[57:31] The the thing or the guy. You don't want to buy money or
[57:34] but I want you. I want you to walk away with a
[57:37] good experience. So I would basically coach you
[57:40] and I'll let you know. I don't think your products is
[57:43] successful and I even suggest other markets they should go to
[57:47] and they're very confused by the fact that I'm asking them to go
[57:49] to another market. But The thing is you want to
[57:52] grow it and and that's my point. It's not just for the money.
[57:56] I want to see you succeed. I want to see you become like a
[58:00] better version of of yourself. You know that that we have
[58:04] enough brands that can make it access to market is the main
[58:08] thing for them. If, if we can find a way to it,
[58:11] to organize more trade shows that expose them to the
[58:14] international world, it would help them to appreciate what the
[58:17] requirements are to be able to stock.
[58:19] You know that the companies that come here, there's the
[58:22] merchandisers who come and buy stock from Ghanaian brands and
[58:25] stock them in Europe. Yeah, they're stocking Ghanaian
[58:28] stuff in, in there. Ghanaian, so many Ghanaian
[58:30] brands. AKS is one of them.
[58:33] She makes bags, but she she stocks in like different shops
[58:36] around the world, you know, but and that's what we need.
[58:38] We need to get more of our local brands in front of like a
[58:41] bigger. Audience.
[58:42] Audience and that's I think that's like my next chapter.
[58:47] Yeah. Passion projects.
[58:50] Interesting. So on your Instagram there are
[58:53] other things you're involved in. It seems like you're yet to
[58:57] launch them at the Pop shop and Make Us events, yes?
[59:02] So pop, pop shop, we're only doing, we're only doing 3 or 4
[59:07] markets in a year, right? But these merchants still need
[59:10] an Ave. to sell. So we're thinking of creating a
[59:13] physical shop location where you can walk in for maybe six weeks,
[59:19] 8 weeks, sell your stuff. And then we take a break, open
[59:25] another one again, pull a selected number of merchants in,
[59:29] essentially just expanding the audience again for for our
[59:34] merchants. And then make a festival will
[59:36] primarily focus on people who make things, you know, so
[59:40] they're crowd goods market. We have people who some of the
[59:42] stuff they they import them, but then this just primarily will
[59:46] primarily focus on. Makers.
[59:48] Because I think in terms of growing the economy, we need to
[59:52] have like local contexts and local inputs.
[59:56] So we can't be. We need a lot of that.
[59:57] Yeah, we can't import. No way is our city going to
[1:00:01] contain it They don't like if we keep doing that.
[1:00:04] Well. But yeah, so that's like the
[1:00:06] focus for those two. I'm still trying to like I'm,
[1:00:09] yeah, running with the idea in my head.
[1:00:11] OK. But yeah, definitely this year
[1:00:12] before the year ends would would, I think there's an
[1:00:15] there's an unconfirmed holiday in June for one of the Muslim
[1:00:19] holidays. Now it looks like holidays are
[1:00:21] just popping up. Or they've always been, you
[1:00:23] know, like that's my that's that's my bad ambassador.
[1:00:26] So I know all, I know all the potential holidays and holidays,
[1:00:31] but yeah, so hopefully I think that there may be one in June.
[1:00:34] Yeah. So obviously you've not worked
[1:00:36] on this alone. You had a team, people you work
[1:00:38] with. So initially, like I started off
[1:00:40] with a team, OK, but over the years, like I think from like
[1:00:43] Year 5, it's just been it's just been me.
[1:00:46] It's very it's not that. Why?
[1:00:48] Why'd you look shocked? I'm.
[1:00:49] Shocked. It's not that difficult
[1:00:53] security. So again, on boarding, it's
[1:00:56] online, there's a form, you fill the form, right?
[1:00:59] The only thing is it sustainable though, if if, if you're
[1:01:03] thinking about if you're thinking about regional scale
[1:01:07] and and continent wide scale and getting people to be a channel
[1:01:12] for people to go to EU. Temporary.
[1:01:14] Stuff. OK.
[1:01:16] We're not because we're not. If you if you have permanent
[1:01:19] stuff, what do they do in between when you don't have
[1:01:21] markets? I mean, it's still a team too.
[1:01:23] They'll. Be bored, they'll be like me.
[1:01:25] Do sad getting tired and run away.
[1:01:28] They ask you why didn't you keep me?
[1:01:32] But that's what you used to do. Yeah.
[1:01:34] So. No, but yeah, I think we we
[1:01:37] actually get a number of volunteers as.
[1:01:39] Well, OK. So in terms of like people, so
[1:01:42] there's always somebody that's yes.
[1:01:44] Well, you have two directors. Yes.
[1:01:46] Are they still OK? OK, OK, OK.
[1:01:48] What do you mean have they're there?
[1:01:49] This is what I have. Yeah, because you just said you
[1:01:53] as we knew. So that's to be sure if they're
[1:01:56] so. Present.
[1:01:56] So it's so like I'm the, I'm the hard worker.
[1:01:59] OK, you're the guy. I'm saying, man, well, I'm too.
[1:02:03] All right, enough of business right now.
[1:02:06] I was trying to get you to come and I called you and on the call
[1:02:11] we tried to do the weekend and you were like, my weekends are.
[1:02:15] No, Yeah, for things like this, kids.
[1:02:19] And so that was like very interesting.
[1:02:21] Yeah. Like don't touch my weekends.
[1:02:23] I'm just print out my kids. I don't do anything on.
[1:02:26] The weekends. So clearly you are married.
[1:02:27] Yes. How long now?
[1:02:28] 10. Oh.
[1:02:30] Well, No 11 now. OK, so it was last year.
[1:02:33] Yeah. So.
[1:02:34] So I can't go to my level. Yes.
[1:02:35] If your wife is listening, she's please, he's forgotten your
[1:02:37] anniversary. No, I don't cause problems for
[1:02:41] me. I've already done that.
[1:02:43] So I said 11 for emphasis, 11 so.
[1:02:48] Better go home with the gifts flies so so you're going my also
[1:02:53] means right after I can't agree with my kids to face baby.
[1:02:56] Yes. Oh, OK, interesting.
[1:02:59] Yeah. And then you have you have
[1:03:00] children now two children. The oldest is 5 cool.
[1:03:03] And the second's 3, three. Yeah.
[1:03:07] How has that changed? Just appears saying.
[1:03:10] Oh, I think, no shouting, sorry, I'm always shouting.
[1:03:13] Stop, stop, stop, stop it, stop it, stop it.
[1:03:16] Is that the kind of change you're talking?
[1:03:19] About actually, because I've had conversations with friends who
[1:03:22] are building businesses and stuff like that.
[1:03:24] And there's a certain remark that goes like, oh, well, build.
[1:03:28] You just keep building what you're doing.
[1:03:30] Yeah. Because if you have kids and the
[1:03:31] kids coming, yeah, you slow down a little or I don't know.
[1:03:35] No, I, I, I that's not been my experience.
[1:03:37] OK, I think so. There's, even if I don't know
[1:03:40] how far down you went to my Instagram, there's a photo of me
[1:03:44] with my son when he was probably maybe 2 and the caption said
[1:03:48] future CEO, right? You're sitting on top of your
[1:03:52] lap, yeah. So if my mindset was to be
[1:03:58] slowed, like how is he then going to become future CEO of
[1:04:02] their cargo's market? If like I don't, I don't think I
[1:04:05] think it actually helps you to put things in perspective.
[1:04:08] I know it's different for everyone, but I, I feel like
[1:04:11] they're a necessary obligation that pushes you beyond your
[1:04:17] comfort zone. I think having it tests your, it
[1:04:20] tests you as a person. How much, how much of yourself
[1:04:23] are you willing to, to give? Kids are a sacrifice, like a big
[1:04:27] sacrifice. Like I remember before we had
[1:04:31] kids, my wife and I were like, every year we'll be on holiday
[1:04:33] somewhere. Like we're just travelling.
[1:04:35] We're just, you know, but like after kids, you know, you're
[1:04:39] thinking of OK, is this is this necessary?
[1:04:45] Can this go elsewhere? Can we do something smaller?
[1:04:49] Can we rather plan like a Bay trip maybe next year instead?
[1:04:52] Geez, what I mean it, it helps you to put things in
[1:04:55] perspective. You start prioritize what's
[1:04:56] what's important. Spending time with my kids is
[1:05:00] like more important to me than Emma.
[1:05:02] Like everybody knows that like I don't weekends, even if you I
[1:05:05] don't even answer my phone back on the weekend.
[1:05:07] You're calling me so far who work on the weekend.
[1:05:09] I don't see anybody who knows me knows that like I don't.
[1:05:13] I'm not obsessed with work. Like I'm not.
[1:05:16] I'm not one of those entrepreneurs that's like living
[1:05:20] and breathing their business. You're.
[1:05:21] Having fun. Like it's so much fun for me.
[1:05:24] And I think that's that's why I've been able to do this for 10
[1:05:27] years. Like if it was something that
[1:05:29] was very structured for me out of giving up like a long time
[1:05:32] ago, you know? So yeah, no kids and I don't,
[1:05:35] they don't slow you down. I think they fuel your passion
[1:05:39] and they help you to they give you a reason for why you're
[1:05:42] building what you're building. You know, and I think, yeah,
[1:05:45] like I actually do want to see my son, like, become if he wants
[1:05:50] to. I mean, then, you know, that is
[1:05:51] kids have their mind of their own.
[1:05:53] Like there's no, there's no handing over.
[1:05:55] Very like James, he wants to be a gamer.
[1:05:57] He wants to play games for a living.
[1:06:00] Playing games with people in this board.
[1:06:04] So, yeah. But like, I mean, if any of them
[1:06:06] wants to be a part of this, yeah, maybe I would have also
[1:06:09] like changed it to suit what they want.
[1:06:11] But yeah, I don't. Yeah.
[1:06:13] No, I love. I love how it changes you as a
[1:06:16] person. You, you learn to sacrifice a
[1:06:18] lot. You and you become very.
[1:06:21] OK. Then again, I'm speaking for
[1:06:22] present fathers. For those who are not presently,
[1:06:26] they have no idea what any of this is.
[1:06:27] But yeah, it's, it's amazing. Used to read books like the way
[1:06:32] you used to when you were. Younger.
[1:06:33] No, I haven't read a book in like.
[1:06:35] The last book I read was in 2020.
[1:06:37] I was on holiday. Well, why?
[1:06:40] Did. Did, did I not tell you two
[1:06:43] kids, five and three? You see, Yes, slow down.
[1:06:48] It's not slowing your business down.
[1:06:51] You're just prioritizing. Yeah, it's important.
[1:06:54] But also don't forget that now there are podcasts so you can
[1:06:56] actually listen to the entire book, OK, and not have to read
[1:06:59] it. You said read.
[1:07:00] So the technicality is. Last month I.
[1:07:03] Got you. Yeah, I'm left-handed.
[1:07:06] Goodwin has to has to relationship with the parents
[1:07:09] now. Oh, amazing.
[1:07:10] They live closely. Oh yeah, they're just like round
[1:07:13] the corner. Oh, that's nice.
[1:07:14] Yeah, your sisters. One's in England and one's here,
[1:07:19] so. OK.
[1:07:20] Yeah, well. But like I said, she's both of
[1:07:22] them are my sister's in town so I saw them over the.
[1:07:25] Weekend. Yeah, I wanted me.
[1:07:27] I wanted to ask you this because looks like he spent a lot of
[1:07:29] time outside of Ghana at some point.
[1:07:31] What? Not you to come back.
[1:07:34] Well, nothing like you just I didn't, I'm not one of those
[1:07:37] people who like I recently built Ghana kind of like that's not my
[1:07:40] story. I just came back because I came
[1:07:44] back like I see a lot of people who are like, oh, you know, like
[1:07:49] I felt like like Africa is the next front.
[1:07:51] I actually this this was just this was fun and games for me,
[1:07:54] right? And it turned out to be like a
[1:07:56] serious business. So now like it's only now that
[1:07:59] I'm beginning to value what I have.
[1:08:01] Do you know what I mean? Like for me, it was just like we
[1:08:05] created an Ave. for people to come and shop when they when we
[1:08:09] started, their crowd was market. It was like the most random
[1:08:11] place you could bump into people.
[1:08:13] Like somebody I didn't see in like 10 years.
[1:08:15] Oh no, not ten years. Like in a in a number of years,
[1:08:17] people you went to school with. So it was not even, I didn't
[1:08:21] even realize what we were building.
[1:08:24] Right. So it wasn't that deep for me
[1:08:27] like and it's it's still not like I'm very light hearted.
[1:08:29] I'm not. I don't think that I'm changing.
[1:08:32] Yeah, funny enough, I was about to make this comment.
[1:08:35] Yeah. And if it's a safe one to do, so
[1:08:38] far with the conversation we've had, yeah, you come up as a very
[1:08:41] light hearted person. Very lazy.
[1:08:43] Yeah. You don't think it's not that
[1:08:45] deep, you know, but something is that deep for you.
[1:08:48] And I think it's a family. Yeah, family.
[1:08:51] No families. Look, I grew up my parents, my
[1:08:55] like I, I don't, I haven't even fought with my sisters before
[1:08:59] when over the weekend we hosted some friends and, and that one
[1:09:03] of one of her friends thoughts as was asking my oldest sister
[1:09:05] what she dislikes about me. Like what?
[1:09:08] And she's like, you know what, like I actually like I, I, I
[1:09:12] don't know, and I can't remember.
[1:09:15] And then it actually got me thinking like my parents, we
[1:09:19] grew up in a house that was very loving.
[1:09:22] Like I love my sisters. Like we, I don't even like we
[1:09:25] don't we talk everyday. Geez.
[1:09:28] What? I mean, yeah, I see them often.
[1:09:30] Like we're always. We have a group chat.
[1:09:32] It's called The Three Musketeers.
[1:09:34] Oh. Who's who's Who's Italian Hatos
[1:09:39] and portos. Hatos.
[1:09:40] Yeah, I'm definitely Hatos, you know, But yeah, like it's, I
[1:09:46] know family is, yes, like I grew up in we're very nuclear.
[1:09:51] Not. Not so much like an extended
[1:09:53] family. I think that's it's the same
[1:09:55] with your own family, your wife and your kids.
[1:09:58] Yeah. You see, is that something
[1:10:00] you're afraid of? What's?
[1:10:04] Am I afraid of? I don't know.
[1:10:09] Will you be losing family? I haven't experienced that yet,
[1:10:12] you know, like I always say that I don't know how I will behave,
[1:10:17] You know, like I haven't, I haven't, I haven't had to grieve
[1:10:18] before. So I think, I think grief
[1:10:22] changes people. A lot.
[1:10:23] It's. Yeah.
[1:10:24] It's, it's like every time I talk to you and I'm like, like,
[1:10:28] you know what? We will tell you that I lost
[1:10:29] someone dear to me. I'm like, I can't really.
[1:10:31] Yeah. You know, not in like a bad way,
[1:10:34] but like I, I don't know, like I don't know.
[1:10:36] So I'm, I'm quite keen to see what that turns me into.
[1:10:43] Because it will come at some point, right?
[1:10:45] It will come. It's not it's, it's the cycle of
[1:10:48] life. So yeah, I don't know.
[1:10:52] I actually don't know do. You have any hobbies?
[1:10:56] If you're not shouting at your case, you stop building a quite
[1:10:59] a good market. Well, I or planning?
[1:11:02] I used to enjoy. With your wife, football.
[1:11:04] OK. But like as many people know,
[1:11:10] the red team, not Liverpool, it's not in the best of spaces.
[1:11:15] You know, there's only one United.
[1:11:16] But yeah, well. Sorry.
[1:11:19] Yeah, it's. Don't worry, don't worry, It's
[1:11:21] been. One of those.
[1:11:24] There's hope. I'm not.
[1:11:26] Sure, there's hope. Don't worry, don't worry.
[1:11:29] It's yeah, so. You guys should say, you should
[1:11:32] say I saw a club completely. But my wife says that because
[1:11:35] I'm becoming an old man. So I love gardening.
[1:11:37] Oh, yeah. Like, I'm always changing plants
[1:11:39] in my house. So yeah, I'm.
[1:11:42] I'm becoming the epitome of yeah, like a dad.
[1:11:45] Dad, Yeah. From maybe next.
[1:11:51] Year when my son's six and he starts like.
[1:11:54] Class 1 football, Yeah. Like soccer class?
[1:11:56] Yeah, I'll be like a soccer dad on the sidelines.
[1:12:00] Yeah, and I got family is very important to you.
[1:12:01] No, no, no. It's.
[1:12:03] I didn't grow up like I grew up. On that front.
[1:12:05] Yeah, so there's no way. The only thing was to make the
[1:12:08] experience better for them. Yeah, my dad used to knock me
[1:12:12] because I didn't like maths, so I'm trying hard not to knock my
[1:12:15] kids because I didn't like it. Yeah, don't blame them Apple.
[1:12:19] That she typically doesn't fall far from the tree, Sir.
[1:12:21] I do. You know what I used to think
[1:12:23] that my dad nugs a lot, the other one said to me.
[1:12:26] I see where you get it from. Oh my.
[1:12:32] God, and I couldn't even argue it because like, I could see it.
[1:12:35] What does the wife do? So she's, what did she say?
[1:12:39] She like she, she has a term for it.
[1:12:40] She's a ceramic artist. Oh, OK.
[1:12:43] Yeah. So this is so she she's, she's
[1:12:45] being fashioned. She used to have a fashion brand
[1:12:46] called Akitasia, and she sold it when she turned 10.
[1:12:51] So then I'm like, I also want to sell a car.
[1:12:53] Like, it doesn't work like that, you know?
[1:12:56] Yeah. So now she does ceramics.
[1:12:59] Her page is called Eats Radiantly.
[1:13:02] So she makes like mugs, plates and bowls.
[1:13:06] You see it's. It's an.
[1:13:07] Interesting you can actually invite me about so I can eat
[1:13:10] brilliantly from one of. Your well actually do that.
[1:13:11] It's so it's a popper. I want to do OK, I want to own.
[1:13:14] So you see, that's the thing. I like food.
[1:13:16] Me too. Oh.
[1:13:18] You don't look like some nice food.
[1:13:19] Hey, I don't. What's your favorite food I
[1:13:23] like? It's really hard for me to
[1:13:24] answer this question because anything swallow once you start
[1:13:28] this. Wait really?
[1:13:29] No swallow? It is swallow with spicy, which
[1:13:33] is full of soup. Bangku with soup or Stew or Pepe
[1:13:38] or kinky, like those things are mine.
[1:13:42] But now lately, I can eat the food every day.
[1:13:46] Yeah, like the past year or two. I can eat the food every day.
[1:13:50] I'm always on the hunt for the next food every day.
[1:13:54] It's it's an exciting meal. It's, it's, it's, it's a food
[1:13:56] for the gods, I'm telling you. Are you one of those egg on
[1:13:59] food? I don't, I don't mind, but me,
[1:14:03] what's not about my food? Is like when did egg become you
[1:14:12] just you just asked me about. The the same way you are
[1:14:17] changing the narrative for how markets play out.
[1:14:19] We didn't grow up in when we grab when we go to the market
[1:14:23] created market. What is that It's OK you're
[1:14:26] doing same so and that was fun Yeah, sorry.
[1:14:29] So thank you so much for coming. I spent.
[1:14:31] We're done. We're done.
[1:14:32] Just like. That just like that too.
[1:14:35] We'll probably do a Part 2 and then.
[1:14:37] Yeah, like I actually want to. So let me go and implement some
[1:14:39] things, yeah, and then I'll invite you guys to come.
[1:14:43] But before you invite us, invite me to come to your house.
[1:14:46] Come and eat. No, that's.
[1:14:47] That's really conversation. I'm talking about inviting the
[1:14:50] podcast to come to the market, come and talk to the
[1:14:53] entrepreneurs, ask them their stories.
[1:14:56] Oh, no, you talk about interpreting their stories, but
[1:14:58] let's let's talk about Food First.
[1:15:00] If you're nothing, how will I? No, you come and eat.
[1:15:03] That's all. That's fine.
[1:15:03] Find another. Thank you, Maka.
[1:15:08] Thank you so much. This.
[1:15:09] Is amazing. Thanks for.
[1:15:10] Coming, I think. Yeah, I think this is like one
[1:15:13] of my coolest ones. Yeah.
[1:15:15] Thanks for coming. And we really wish you well with
[1:15:19] all that you're doing likewise. Yeah.
[1:15:21] And then hopefully this great tool you have on your hands will
[1:15:25] get people thinking about our continent and identity.
[1:15:29] And you also create an asset for people, young businesses like
[1:15:33] ours to, you know, gases to market.
[1:15:35] You build this content. It's just a matter of fabric.
[1:15:37] Yeah, Thank you so much. Sound like.
[1:15:40] A snowfall. Yeah, so friends in the choir
[1:15:44] and the world beyond quite the privilege of talking to McAfee
[1:15:47] Ayime on your behalf and I hope you had a wonderful
[1:15:51] conversation. And as the mantra is beginning
[1:15:54] to require just build something, you do a.

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