# How Steffen Peters Trains a Horse: Self-Carriage, Groundwork & a New Stallion (Part 2)

An episode of [The NOËLLE FLOYD Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1770253354), 21 Sep 2026, 54 min.

Audio: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/344db67d-7a82-4d70-b677-33cd980033c3/Steffen_2_with_master_class_ad_flying.mp3?dest-id=4715857

A horse has two choices. Learn to accept the bit, or fight it for the rest of its life. That's Steffen Peters, and this is the half where his hands are on the reins. If you heard Part 1, you met the man — six Olympics, the dark place, the way back. This one is the horse training — the groundwork up through Grand Prix. Forty years of it, distilled into the way he starts a five-year-old and the way he brought a brand-new stallion into the ring after two weeks together. Here's the thing that runs through all of it: he doesn't push a horse into the bridle. Ever. He thinks ninety-five percent of horses are ridden with too much contact, and he'll tell you why "more hind legs, more into the hand" was never the answer for him. What he wants is suppleness, self-carriage, lightness — a soft rein you can see, and a horse that carries itself instead of leaning on your hand. We get into where that starts, and it is earlier than you would think. The groundwork — on a lead rope, in a halter — the horse that stops when you stop without a pull on the rope. He calls it cooperation, not submission, and he means the difference exactly. From there it's the walk work most riders rush past, the half halt that becomes a reflex, the spur as a reminder and never a crutch, and the three aids he says are the only tools you really have. There's the new stallion — fourteen, extremely smart, the horse that trained his rider to say "don't quit." There's Totilas, and what it takes to watch someone beat you and mean it when you call it good. And there's the compliment two vets paid him without knowing he could hear: at Steffen's barn, they can't make any money — because of the walk breaks, and what they save. If Part 1 was how he learned to manage himself, this is how he manages the conversation with the horse. Same man. Now the method. Steffen Peters is a German-born American dressage rider, a six-time Olympian and multiple Olympic medalist, and one of the most decorated dressage athletes in United States history. He returned to competition this year, opening his season aboard a new stallion with wins across the Prix St. Georges, the Intermediaire I, and the Grand Prix. Chapters: 0:00 Riding Becomes Training 01:39 Flow State With New Stallion 02:19 Suppleness Over Hind Legs 04:37 Stop the Nagging Leg 05:52 Feel Over Looks 08:16 How Much Contact 11:57 Western Lightness Lessons 13:45 Warmup Is Training 17:30 Mindful Aids and Tools 20:38 Reliable Tests and Nerves 22:32 Refining Pressure Release 25:05 Walk Work and Discipline 27:12 Quiet Coaching Shift 27:54 Trainer Judge Clinics 29:06 From Thinking To Reflex 31:02 Flow State In Competition 34:09 Building Presence On Ground 37:46 Mindfulness In Daily Life 41:04 Rapid Fire Questions 47:59 New Stallion Partnership 50:26 Walk Breaks And Longevity Want to go deeper into the training behind a clean, confident flying change? In his new NOËLLE FLOYD Masterclass, six-time Olympian Steffen Peters breaks down the entire process—from developing the right canter, balance and response to the aids to introducing the change and troubleshooting tension, anticipation, crookedness and changes that are late behind. Learn more and watch Training the Flying Change with Steffen Peters: https://noellefloyd.com/pages/flying-changes-with-steffen-peters Interested in more from Noëlle? Noëlle's writing again — head to her Substack for essays, observations, and the kind of thinking that doesn't fit in an episode. https://noellefloyd.substack.com Every episode is also on YouTube, where the conversation continues in the comments. https://www.youtube.com/@noellefloyd_plus And if you're ready to go deeper, NF+ is where the real work happens — masterclasses, curated content, and a community that takes horses seriously. https://noellefloydplus.com You can also download the app - NF+ App Thank you for your listening!

## Transcript

[0:00] Steffen: You nailed it.
[0:00] There's always that time when the rider gets it.
[0:03] That's when riding turns into training.
[0:06] It turns into education, you know?
[0:08] Yeah.
[0:09] But we shouldn't just go onto a horse and just repeat and
[0:12] hope that things get better.
[0:14] Noelle: Before we begin, a quick note.
[0:18] If you haven't listened to part one, I would start there.
[0:22] It is the story of the man behind the medals and the emotional ground
[0:27] beneath everything we talk about here.
[0:31] In part two, we talk about a new stallion, 40 years of horsemanship,
[0:36] and one question underneath it all.
[0:39] How do you find flow with a horse who is still learning to trust you?
[0:45] And what a six-time Olympian continues to learn from Western
[0:50] horsemen about pressure and release.
[0:54] Steffen: This is Steffen Peters.
[0:55] Welcome to the Noelle Floyd Podcast.
[1:00] Noelle: Before we begin today's episode, I'd love to ask for your support.
[1:05] The simplest way to support this podcast is to hit follow or
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[1:11] It helps the show reach more people who care about the same things that we do.
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[1:25] And if this podcast has meant something to you, leaving a rating, a review,
[1:29] or a comment makes a huge difference.
[1:33] So thank you for being here.
[1:35] I really do not take your time or attention for granted.
[1:39] Now, let's dive in to today's episode I love your perspective on things.
[1:45] Mm-hmm.
[1:46] Especially you've taken time away, you've looked after your body, you've
[1:49] thought about your nervous system.
[1:50] Mm-hmm.
[1:51] Which is such an important part of flow state.
[1:53] Steffen: Yeah.
[1:54] Noelle: I would love for you to share with everyone the, the perspective you
[1:59] have now about how to achieve that.
[2:02] 'Cause you have a new horse, and I wanna talk about him.
[2:04] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[2:04] Noelle: But when now that you're stepping into a new partnership, what kind of
[2:09] principles are you going in to that new partnership with to really achieve
[2:16] flow state with this new stallion?
[2:19] Steffen: You know, the first thing that comes to my mind, um, a lot of people like
[2:25] to teach hind legs, hind legs, hind legs.
[2:27] Mm. And I like to think about suppleness, suppleness, suppleness,
[2:33] self-carriage, lightness, you know?
[2:36] And I, I still remember just last, last few days, I remember a person did a
[2:41] clinic, and it was all about, uh, more into the hand, more hind legs, you know?
[2:46] And maybe horses move briefly a little bit more engaged behind,
[2:52] but what about the mouth?
[2:54] Mm. You know, what about the, the, the connection?
[2:57] What about the soft rein that you can see, and you can go through
[3:01] the movements, and you make it look a little bit more effortless and
[3:05] a little bit more easy, you know?
[3:07] Um, that's always been-- I don't like to call it philosophy.
[3:11] That's always been my guideline.
[3:12] Noelle: Mm-hmm.
[3:13] Steffen: You know?
[3:13] And now when I have my horse in the warm-up so extremely light in the bridle.
[3:18] Noelle: Mm-hmm.
[3:19] Steffen: Yeah?
[3:19] And now I'm going through some movements.
[3:23] And now maybe, maybe, maybe I allow the horse to go a little bit more to the
[3:28] hand, a little bit more into the bridle.
[3:30] Now it doesn't escalate.
[3:32] Now it doesn't, the horse doesn't become so heavy where
[3:34] you say, "Yeah, you know what?
[3:36] This might look good, but I don't like this feeling at all." Then the question
[3:40] needs to come up and say, "Well, if you don't push your horse into the
[3:44] bridle, where, where does the hind leg come from?" And I, I'd like to
[3:49] introduce early on, even with a five and six-year-old horse, I'd like to introduce
[3:55] a pretty high degree of collection.
[3:57] Noelle: Okay.
[3:57] Steffen: So, you know, going from a medium canter, instead of going from
[4:01] a medium canter to a collected canter, I go medium canter, pirouette canter.
[4:05] Mm. I'd like even with a five or six-year-old horse, I like
[4:09] to introduce the piaffe in a very, very kind, gentle way.
[4:14] Now, if I need the hind legs a little bit more in trot, I have a
[4:17] tool where I can get the hind legs.
[4:21] You know?
[4:21] So now I'm teaching also a five or six-year-old horse to canter a little
[4:27] bit, uh, traver-like on a circle.
[4:30] Noelle: Mm-hmm.
[4:30] Steffen: And I ask the horse to do this at least three to four
[4:33] strides by himself, by herself.
[4:37] And, um, i- like I mentioned before, I allow the horse to make a mistake.
[4:42] If the horse breaks to the trot, it's a training opportunity.
[4:45] I have to be super quick about pushing this horse quickly back in
[4:48] the canter, but I absolutely refuse to ride with the leg and say, "Don't
[4:53] quit, don't quit, don't quit."
[4:54] Noelle: The nagging
[4:55] Steffen: leg- The nagging
[4:55] … Noelle: I call it.
[4:56] Steffen: Yeah.
[4:57] You know?
[4:58] And, um, it's honestly the very, very first thing that I look at when I start
[5:03] in the clinic, you know, how in walk, when the horse is on a loose rein,
[5:06] what does the rider do with the leg?
[5:07] Yeah,
[5:08] Noelle: yep.
[5:08] Steffen: You know?
[5:09] And we should just have enough tension in the leg, gentle muscle,
[5:14] uh, tension where the leg can be quiet, and that should be enough
[5:18] pressure for the horse to move forward.
[5:19] Mm. If that's not the case, sure, we make our point.
[5:22] We don't just push the horse moment forward in walk.
[5:26] We might go to a couple trot steps, you know?
[5:28] So we don't just fill up the, the deficit of the energy.
[5:33] Yeah.
[5:33] We, we go for a little bit more.
[5:34] Noelle: Yeah.
[5:34] Steffen: You know?
[5:35] And, and this incredible ability, Noelle, for horses to learn That's
[5:43] what's, what keeps me ticking every day.
[5:46] You know?
[5:46] They really get it, you know?
[5:48] They- If
[5:48] Noelle: you let them.
[5:49] Steffen: If you let them.
[5:50] If you let them.
[5:50] If you really let them, you know?
[5:52] And, and this whole idea of, um, self-carriage and lightness, you know.
[5:57] We've had so many tests where, um, it, when I look at the videos, said
[6:02] maybe that wasn't the most expressive test, but it was a clean test, no
[6:06] mistakes, and the contact looked nice.
[6:08] The horse was supple on both sides.
[6:10] You know, for, it, it was pleasant to watch.
[6:12] It, you know, and I think al- And
[6:14] Noelle: it felt good.
[6:15] Steffen: And it felt good.
[6:16] Noelle: I feel like that should be the measure of every rider.
[6:18] Yeah.
[6:18] After talking to you, I feel like now that is gonna be my measure, right?
[6:23] Yeah.
[6:23] With my horses, is I'm gonna say if I don't care as much about what it
[6:28] looks like, it has to be how it feels.
[6:29] Steffen: Yeah, exactly.
[6:30] Noelle: Right?
[6:30] And are you, are you maintaining your own principles in the
[6:34] pursuit of great horsemanship?
[6:35] That's exactly
[6:35] Steffen: right.
[6:36] Yep.
[6:37] Noelle: I love… Yeah.
[6:38] Okay.
[6:39] One, I mean, there's a lot to cover, what you just talked about, 'cause
[6:42] you're talking about the nagging leg.
[6:43] Mm-hmm.
[6:43] You're talking about self-carriage.
[6:46] You're talking about… And honestly, I really, I really am grateful when
[6:51] we talk about this because I think there's a big discrepancy in how this
[6:56] is taught in the industry, for one.
[6:58] Mm-hmm.
[6:58] Both in, in show jumping, I see the aids, like, are such,
[7:04] like, these are fundamentals- Mm-hmm … that are universal, right?
[7:08] Mm-hmm.
[7:09] And I know when I dive into the Western space, they, they navigate
[7:13] their aids a little bit differently.
[7:14] Mm-hmm.
[7:15] They're much more-
[7:16] Steffen: But, but still the same principles
[7:17] Noelle: But still the same principles.
[7:18] Yes, for sure.
[7:18] Like, when you watch a bridle horse- Mm-hmm … when you watch vaquero,
[7:21] like, it's, there is still a lot of the universal principles of-
[7:26] Steffen: Mm-hmm
[7:27] Noelle: how much we want that horse to feel, um, clear and understanding
[7:35] around- Mm-hmm … what we're asking with our hands, with our seat, with our
[7:38] leg- Mm-hmm … with the balance, right?
[7:40] Yeah.
[7:40] And you watch a bridle horse and you watch a dressage horse, I see the s-
[7:44] the sa- I see so much of the same.
[7:46] Steffen: For sure.
[7:47] Noelle: Right?
[7:47] Steffen: Yeah.
[7:47] Noelle: And, and so I, I'm really glad that you brought
[7:50] up the nagging leg- Mm-hmm
[7:51] because I feel like this is, um, an easy trap that riders get into
[7:59] Steffen: For sure
[7:59] … Noelle: right?
[8:00] And that maybe they need a, a new fresh pair of eyes, like at a clinic with you.
[8:04] Mm-hmm.
[8:04] To kind of go like, that's gonna create a dull horse.
[8:08] Mm-hmm,
[8:08] Steffen: mm-hmm.
[8:08] Noelle: Because that horse is going to shut off- Yeah … to
[8:11] what you're constantly asking-
[8:13] Steffen: Yeah
[8:13] Noelle: them, right?
[8:14] Steffen: Exactly.
[8:16] Noelle: You talk about, um, contact.
[8:19] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[8:19] Noelle: And I actually have a question.
[8:21] I have a training question for you.
[8:22] Steffen: Sure.
[8:23] Noelle: I was told, um, in a conversation with a dressage rider that horses, each
[8:29] horse, and this was a new concept to me, um, which I really appreciated,
[8:33] and I need you to expand on it.
[8:35] So when we have a contact and we have our horse in our hand, some
[8:40] horses want more, and they need more, um, like weight in your hand.
[8:45] Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
[8:45] They want to have more contact.
[8:48] Some want less.
[8:50] Is that true?
[8:52] And is that a part of an individual preference to pressure, or is that
[8:59] actually trained in your opinion?
[9:02] Steffen: Yeah, that's, um Th- th- those are very, very fundamental questions.
[9:09] Noelle: Yeah.
[9:09] Steffen: And, you know, I, I, I usually get the question, you know, "My, my,
[9:14] my horse feels a little too light."
[9:17] And my question is always, "If there's no other side effects of it, your horse
[9:22] is straight, um, the horse carries its tail fairly straight, um, the horse is
[9:28] willing to move forward, so what exactly is the problem with being too light?"
[9:35] Noelle: Mm. Mm-hmm.
[9:36] Steffen: You know, what, what is it?
[9:37] You know?
[9:39] And the rider says, "Yeah, but we, we, we're supposed to have a contact."
[9:42] Say, "Yeah, you're supposed to have a connection. Your horse is
[9:44] supposed to go to the hand, but not against the hand." You know?
[9:49] And, um, I think in, in general, I think 95% of all horses, um, they're
[9:57] ridden with a little too much contact.
[9:59] I'm not saying that the rider's pulling on the horse, but I'm saying that the
[10:03] rider ac- is accepting too much contact.
[10:06] Yeah?
[10:07] And nowadays we're so concerned.
[10:10] The judges are much, much more critical about an open mouth, uh- Yes … you know.
[10:14] So how does that concept make sense where you say, "Push him more into
[10:19] the hand, more into the bridle, more into the bridle." It doesn't make
[10:22] sense, and it never made sense to me.
[10:24] Noelle: Okay.
[10:24] Cool.
[10:25] Steffen: The, the, the lightest horse that I ever had was Wawel.
[10:28] Noelle: Mm.
[10:28] Steffen: And I had in the beginning when, when, when I started showing
[10:33] him, a few comments like that, you know, "You need, you need more
[10:37] contact." And then, you know, he, he had, had an exceptional canter.
[10:43] He would get nines for extended canters and flying changes and pirouettes and
[10:49] then finally said, "You know what?
[10:51] Maybe it's okay."
[10:52] Noelle: Yeah.
[10:53] Steffen: You know?
[10:53] And I could ride him through the test mainly on the snaffle.
[10:57] And, you know, unfortunately nowadays that's still by some
[11:00] judges it is criticized that- To
[11:02] Noelle: be in the snaffle
[11:03] … Steffen: but well, the horse is in the double bridle, but the curb rein is loose.
[11:07] Noelle: Ah.
[11:08] Steffen: You know?
[11:08] That is sometimes criticized, and it's, um, it, it, it doesn't
[11:12] make that much sense to me.
[11:14] You know?
[11:15] So different story if the horse truly hides and is tight in the back and if
[11:21] there's a physical condition where the horse doesn't wanna touch the bit and
[11:25] is clearly be- clearly behind the leg.
[11:27] Noelle: Yes.
[11:27] Steffen: Then, you know, that's a different story, but that could also
[11:30] be a subject for a veterinarian.
[11:32] Noelle: Yes.
[11:33] Steffen: You know?
[11:33] But in general, if the mouth is soft and the neck is, is not too short where
[11:38] the horse simply spits the bit out-
[11:41] Noelle: Mm
[11:41] … Steffen: the horse is light and the rider can show lightness, I'm That's,
[11:46] that's how I ride every single horse.
[11:48] Or that's my goal, let's put it that way.
[11:50] That's what
[11:50] Noelle: you're- Yeah … that's what you're trying to achieve, isn't it?
[11:52] Steffen: Exactly.
[11:53] Noelle: Yes.
[11:53] Yes.
[11:53] I'm really glad you s- you explained that to me.
[11:56] One, thank you.
[11:57] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[11:57] Noelle: Because as I explore, you know, one of the things of the pursuits of
[12:02] this podcast, and in my own exploration of horsemanship, I have been doing
[12:07] more riding in the Western spaces.
[12:10] Mm-hmm.
[12:10] And really learning more about the way that Western riders, and vaquero
[12:15] riders, and bridle horse, and the w- rein cow, like, not rein cows, uh, cow
[12:20] sorting, different things that we do.
[12:22] Mm. First of all, I've, I, I wanna say to everyone, 'cause there'll be
[12:25] a lot of dressage riders listening to this, if you… For me, solidifying
[12:30] the purpose and, and reason behind the aids around being able to have
[12:35] independent movement in all- Mm-hmm … aspects of your horse's body, it,
[12:39] the click was when I was moving cows-
[12:43] Steffen: Hmm
[12:43] Noelle: with a horse.
[12:44] Because if you can bump your hor- you can bump a cow with your hi- with your hind.
[12:48] Mm-hmm.
[12:48] Like, you can literally do a turn on the forehand- Mm-hmm … and bump a cow.
[12:51] Mm-hmm.
[12:51] It has a completely different meaning, Steffen.
[12:54] Steffen: Yeah, of
[12:54] Noelle: course.
[12:54] It, like, instead of doing it in an arena, you have a reason.
[12:57] Steffen: Yeah.
[12:57] Noelle: There's the- There's a
[12:58] Steffen: purpose.
[12:58] Noelle: Exactly.
[12:59] Steffen: Yeah,
[12:59] Noelle: yeah.
[12:59] So it's been very enriching for my learning experience- Mm-hmm … to
[13:03] then put some, fill in some holes in my own understanding.
[13:07] And what I notice in certain pursuits of, in riders in the Western world that
[13:12] I really respect, is the lightness.
[13:15] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[13:15] Noelle: The almost, the, the actual almost expectation of self-carriage.
[13:20] Mm-hmm.
[13:20] That the, you know, in, in vaquero belief system, that you should be able to put
[13:25] silk reins on the, the, on that bit.
[13:29] Mm-hmm.
[13:30] And that that be your contact.
[13:31] Mm-hmm.
[13:31] Right?
[13:32] Steffen: Yeah.
[13:32] Noelle: And then we pendulum swing over here.
[13:34] Mm-hmm.
[13:35] And I'm sitting there going, "Okay, so there's this fascinating
[13:38] discussion about- Mm-hmm
[13:39] what is 10 pounds of pressure?" Mm-hmm.
[13:41] "What is 20 pounds of pressure?" Right?
[13:43] Steffen: Exactly.
[13:45] Yeah.
[13:45] You know, therefore, I, I start with each and every rider, and I tell them,
[13:49] "What, what is the most productive frame and tempo for your horse to, to be,
[13:54] even in the beginning, in, in a certain degree of self-carriage?" You know?
[13:58] And too many riders just warm their horses up.
[14:02] When, when we take a contact, we're training.
[14:04] Noelle: Yes.
[14:05] Steffen: We're training.
[14:06] And that starts in the warmup, and I think there's a certain amount of training that
[14:12] needs to go on in the warmup, you know?
[14:14] So many people just talk about the, the biomechanical issues of warming a horse
[14:19] up, but the mental issues That is huge.
[14:23] And, well, I, I really believe when, when people talk about, let's
[14:28] say something simple like bending.
[14:30] Noelle: Mm.
[14:30] Steffen: Yeah?
[14:31] That, um, 90% of all people think it's, it's just a biomechanical issue.
[14:38] Noelle: Yeah.
[14:38] Steffen: You know?
[14:39] But horses need to understand suppleness.
[14:42] They need to understand what it means to release.
[14:44] They need to understand when you go on a 20 meter circle and you ask the horse to
[14:48] yield a little bit to the inner leg, you should try to give the inner rein and,
[14:53] and can the horse, can the horse hold that position, that bend for a couple of steps?
[14:58] Noelle: Mm.
[14:59] Steffen: When that's the case and you can give the rein and the horse
[15:02] stays slightly inside position, there, something clicks upstairs.
[15:05] They- They
[15:05] Noelle: go, "Oh."
[15:07] Steffen: You know, I'm not just being held to the inside.
[15:11] I'm not just being forced into that, you know?
[15:13] And I always like to use a very simple explanation.
[15:16] Let's say a horse is a bit stiff on one rein, on the left rein, let's say.
[15:20] You do, try to do a carrot stretch with that horse.
[15:22] He's perfectly capable of reaching all the way to the girth and grabbing the carrot.
[15:26] Yeah?
[15:27] So we have to ask ourselves, is it, is it just a biomechanical thing,
[15:31] or is, you know, a huge, huge part of this a mental understanding?
[15:36] Does the horse have, has the capacity to understand what suppleness is all about?
[15:42] Noelle: I think that's the difference between riding, like riders who
[15:47] ride and riders who are horsemen.
[15:49] Steffen: Yeah.
[15:50] Noelle: Is like, can you, can you teach a horse to, to
[15:54] understand all the ways- Yeah.
[15:56] You,
[15:56] Steffen: you-
[15:57] … Noelle: that we want them to show up?
[15:58] Steffen: You nailed it.
[15:59] There's, there's, there's always that time when the rider gets it.
[16:03] That's when riding turns into training.
[16:06] It turns into education.
[16:09] Noelle: I want to take a quick pause to invite you into my brand new Substack.
[16:15] Each week, I publish essays on the horse world, from equine industry insights,
[16:20] horse culture, equine economics, even the more mystical, spiritual, and
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[16:36] and working through with my own horses.
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[16:44] Plus instructors, and the incredible horses who keep asking me to look deeper.
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[17:12] Steffen: That's when riding turns into training.
[17:15] It turns into education, you know?
[17:17] Yeah.
[17:18] But we can't just go, we shouldn't just go on our horse and just repeat
[17:22] and hope that things get better.
[17:24] Noelle: Yeah.
[17:24] Steffen: You know?
[17:25] We, we have to explain to the horse and address this, you
[17:29] know, over and over again.
[17:30] And to me, that starts in walk with a young horse, um, some leg yields
[17:35] in walk, some walk-halt transitions.
[17:37] With a more advanced horse, um, half passes and turn on the haunches,
[17:41] turn on the forehand, that all of this is already in a low impact
[17:45] exercise available in walk.
[17:47] Noelle: Totally.
[17:48] Steffen: You know?
[17:49] So now when I work with a rider and they understand what it means to push
[17:53] a horse forward, now we take that same principle into a half pass, and
[17:58] we say, "Look, now the horse should move off your calf into a half pass."
[18:03] If the horse doesn't react, if you use momentarily your spur,
[18:07] it becomes a reminding aid.
[18:10] Mm-hmm.
[18:10] But, but the spur is never a supporting aid.
[18:14] It is a simple, quick reminder to say, "Hey, here's my calf," and
[18:17] that's the sensitivity I want.
[18:19] And when the rider makes that click and that understanding, that
[18:23] expectation, that standard every day, mindful riding really starts.
[18:28] Noelle: Mindful riding, I love that.
[18:31] Steffen: Yep.
[18:32] Noelle: Because I think that's an important… There's so much conversation
[18:35] about the bits and about spurs and about whips, but I, I remember hearing
[18:40] this in m- in my many conversations is spurs should be looked at the same
[18:44] way that halters are looked at and the same way that a lead rope is looked at.
[18:47] Mm-hmm.
[18:47] These are all aids in communication.
[18:49] Steffen: For sure.
[18:50] Noelle: So a halter can be used abusively.
[18:52] A leather halter with- Mm-hmm … sheepskin-
[18:54] Steffen: Mm-hmm
[18:55] … Noelle: can be used in a way that is inappropriate.
[18:57] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[18:57] Noelle: Right?
[18:58] Steffen: For sure.
[18:58] Noelle: So I think it's always important to think of all these aids that we have-
[19:03] Mm-hmm … available to us to make our communication clear, but we're still
[19:07] trying to communicate what we want.
[19:08] Exactly.
[19:08] And are we doing it clearly?
[19:11] Steffen: Very clearly.
[19:13] L- look, another example is the double bridle.
[19:15] You know, there are so many theories where judges and clinicians say everything
[19:20] that you need to do in the level with a double bridle, first you should
[19:25] be able to do this in the snaffle.
[19:27] It, it's a very good concept.
[19:29] Noelle: Mm-hmm.
[19:29] Steffen: Yeah?
[19:30] But I look at it this way.
[19:31] I believe in very, in, in mindful riding and in efficient riding.
[19:36] Noelle: Mm-hmm.
[19:36] Steffen: I don't wanna just spend, you know, the first 15, 20 minutes or maybe
[19:41] even longer to, to get a horse through.
[19:44] Mm. Yeah?
[19:45] If I can achieve that little bit better with the double bridle by
[19:48] refining the rai- the rein aid.
[19:49] Mm-hmm.
[19:51] Yeah?
[19:51] And then maybe putting the curb away and say, "Hey, you got it," you know.
[19:54] "Let's try it now just on the snaffle." Then to me, the, the curb
[19:58] has the same function as the spur.
[20:00] Noelle: Right.
[20:01] Steffen: It just refines that particular aid, and we're being more effective
[20:07] and more efficient with our horses.
[20:09] They're, every horse has only so many sound trot steps, so many
[20:13] sound half passes and extensions.
[20:16] So if I can be more efficient and get things done, of course we, I believe in
[20:21] fitness of the horse, no doubt, but I truly believe in getting things done.
[20:25] Noelle: I never thought about that, when you say a horse has only so many sound-
[20:29] Steffen: Yeah
[20:29] … Noelle: half passes, only so many sound-
[20:31] Steffen: Exactly
[20:32] … Noelle: sound pirou- I never thought about that.
[20:33] Yeah.
[20:34] Like, you're almost like you're fighting time and, and
[20:36] Steffen: rep- That's ex- … repetition … that's exactly right.
[20:38] You know, and of course, the, the confidence of the rider plays a big role.
[20:42] You know, you, it takes for a person who's learning, it takes a little bit longer to
[20:47] get the feeling and get the confidence.
[20:49] Noelle: Yeah.
[20:49] Steffen: You know?
[20:50] But I've had many, many tests with, uh, with 15 minutes of collected work.
[20:57] I was on my horse for half an hour at least, but there were so many walk
[21:00] breaks and, um, simple tests, you know, where I Test with, with the
[21:08] most, with the lightest possible aid.
[21:10] I test a pirouette, I test a piaffe.
[21:13] You know, if I have to start the piaffe, the passage, or the
[21:16] pirouettes with a spur, I know it's trouble for the show arena.
[21:19] Noelle: Right.
[21:20] Steffen: You know?
[21:20] And I would- I tell my students so many times, that particular
[21:24] movement, um, was quite good.
[21:28] It doesn't have to become better, but it has to become more reliable.
[21:32] Noelle: Mm.
[21:32] Steffen: That you can count on this ha- you know?
[21:34] Yeah … on this truly happening in the show arena, and not, not saying a,
[21:38] a prayer for it or a hope, you know?
[21:41] It-
[21:41] Noelle: Yeah
[21:41] … Steffen: you know, or one of those, I get those, those comments quite a
[21:44] bit, um, "Yeah, I can get the changes, but it depends on the day." Ah.
[21:49] You know, what if that particular day is the show?
[21:51] Noelle: Yeah
[21:51] … Steffen: you know, and it's not a good day.
[21:53] So I really believe understanding and, and having the highest aids about each
[21:58] and every aid that we give a horse and communicate with, we, we can achieve this,
[22:04] this, this really reliable test, you know?
[22:07] And then, you know, people can take this mindset into the warmup.
[22:11] Noelle: Mm-hmm.
[22:12] Steffen: It gives you so much more confidence.
[22:14] Consequently, your nerves are in a better place.
[22:17] Noelle: That's true.
[22:18] Steffen: You know?
[22:18] But if you get into the warmup or into a show, you enter a show and
[22:22] your horse is not rideable enough, that's always tough on your nerves.
[22:26] Yeah.
[22:27] You know?
[22:27] Totally.
[22:27] Then, then there is much more room for surprises.
[22:32] Noelle: Do you have an exercise, and it doesn't even have to be in the saddle, but
[22:35] I would love to know as a trainer, but as a horseman, I want, I want you to imagine
[22:41] there's a, a few people, or maybe there's many people, who are listening or watching
[22:45] this episode who want to refine that, what I would call that communication.
[22:53] Mm-hmm.
[22:53] That line of communication in the saddle where this is what I'm asking.
[22:57] That's exact- you know, when you go, "This is what I'm asking,"
[22:59] that's exactly what I wanted.
[23:00] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[23:01] Noelle: This is what I'm asking, that's exactly, with that pressure and release.
[23:04] But pressure and release is such a broad term-
[23:06] Steffen: Mm-hmm … for such a nuanced application.
[23:10] Noelle: Do you have a exercise or a mindset or something super simple
[23:16] that would apply to anyone who's in the saddle who wants to just get more
[23:22] refined in their application of the aids?
[23:26] Steffen: Mm-hmm I think it starts with a walk, as I mentioned.
[23:30] You know, those walk half passes.
[23:32] And just this morning I saw a rider doing a really, really good walk pirouette,
[23:37] but it was with a ton of outside leg.
[23:41] Noelle: Okay.
[23:41] Steffen: You know?
[23:42] So just understanding from there that, like you said, it's a
[23:46] mindset, it's an expectation.
[23:48] Noelle: Mm.
[23:48] Steffen: It's a standard, and that's my job.
[23:50] I gotta bring that across.
[23:51] Noelle: Mm-hmm.
[23:52] Steffen: You know?
[23:53] But, um, I can talk to you about the fanciest exercise, you know, we could
[23:59] possibly think about, but if, if a horse is not perfectly understanding the aid,
[24:04] then, you know, most exercises don't really make things a whole lot better.
[24:09] Noelle: I would… Yeah.
[24:10] You know?
[24:10] I totally, uh, resonate with that.
[24:12] Steffen: And, and, and I get it so many times now where, where a rider says,
[24:16] "You know what? I feel this in the stifle, I feel this in the fifth and
[24:22] sixth vertebrate, and then I feel this in the jaw. And, um, you know, there's a
[24:28] little something going on in the stifle."
[24:30] And my, my comment is always, "Let, let me stop you right
[24:34] there," I do it very kindly.
[24:35] Mm-hmm.
[24:36] "You only have three aids to fix this. You have the leg aid, the seat aid,
[24:40] and the rein aid, and that's it."
[24:42] Noelle: Mm.
[24:42] Steffen: You know?
[24:43] If that doesn't work, maybe then it's time to maybe talk to a veterinarian.
[24:47] But if you keep the highest standards about the reaction to those three
[24:52] aids, that's all you can do.
[24:54] That's all you can do to fix things.
[24:55] Noelle: Yeah.
[24:56] Steffen: You know?
[24:57] And people look at me sometimes and they say, "Well, that, that sounds way
[25:00] too simple," but it, that's what it is.
[25:02] Noelle: Yeah, it's
[25:03] Steffen: true.
[25:03] It needs to be sometimes that simple.
[25:05] Noelle: I really love your invitation for people to walk.
[25:10] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[25:10] Noelle: Because I, when I traveled across the country last year with my horses,
[25:16] I drove 25,000 miles to ride with- Wow.
[25:18] Yeah.
[25:19] I drove 25,000 miles across the country to ride with all sorts of different people.
[25:23] Mm. I wanted to really understand.
[25:26] It was like a year of anthropology.
[25:29] I was- Mm … studying all the different tribes of the horse world.
[25:32] Steffen: Mm.
[25:33] Noelle: And I walked with my horses a lot.
[25:36] Mm-hmm.
[25:36] Cowboys, who do some of the most complex things I've seen with horses- Mm-hmm
[25:40] they spend 95% of the time walking.
[25:44] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[25:44] Mm-hmm.
[25:44] Noelle: And it was amazing to me, though, because, um, I- It was fascinating.
[25:50] What it, what the walk does is the walk requires you to be so much subtler
[25:56] Steffen: Mm-hmm
[25:57] … Noelle: and y- you have to, like, if you can't do it at the walk, you're not gonna
[26:00] be able to do it at the trot, and you're not gonna be able to do it at the canter.
[26:03] Steffen: I agree.
[26:03] Noelle: And it really made me think about the commitment, the discipline
[26:08] that's required to really, um, commit ourselves to the fundamentals.
[26:12] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[26:12] Noelle: Right?
[26:13] And then when I would increase my pace, or I would do, I would maneuver around a cow,
[26:18] or I might be, um, working at liberty with the horses, and as soon as you increase
[26:22] the pace, you increase the stakes.
[26:25] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[26:26] Noelle: So you really have to have your fundamentals.
[26:29] Steffen: Yeah.
[26:29] Noelle: But your ego, it's like the ego wants to do it-
[26:32] Steffen: Sometimes, yeah.
[26:33] For sure
[26:34] … Noelle: more, at a higher, at a higher pace, at a trot-
[26:36] Yeah, yeah, yeah … or canter.
[26:37] Steffen: Exactly.
[26:37] Noelle: But I realize that the masters are the ones that do it, that commit
[26:42] themselves to doing- Mm-hmm … it well in every aspect- Mm-hmm
[26:46] all the time.
[26:48] Steffen: For sure.
[26:48] Noelle: You know?
[26:49] Steffen: Absolutely.
[26:50] Noelle: It's very inspiring.
[26:51] Steffen: Yeah.
[26:53] It, it is.
[26:54] Um, you mentioned discipline.
[26:56] Noelle: Mm-hmm.
[26:56] Steffen: Discipline is the bridge between dreams and accomplishments.
[27:02] You know?
[27:03] That's
[27:03] Noelle: true.
[27:03] Steffen: And that's, it's a very, very interesting word, you know,
[27:09] but that's how I think about it.
[27:12] Noelle: Do you think we mentor enough discipline in riders?
[27:17] Steffen: You know, I honestly, I see nowadays when, when I watch people with
[27:24] the C coaches on- Mm-hmm … you know, I, I see what the rider does, but I
[27:28] don't hear enough what they're saying.
[27:30] Noelle: Yeah.
[27:31] Steffen: You know?
[27:31] Um- We're not
[27:32] Noelle: yelling at each other
[27:33] Steffen: anymore.
[27:33] Yeah.
[27:33] Not, not anymore.
[27:35] You know, so it, it's, it's hard to say that, but, um, I-
[27:41] Noelle: Yeah, it's true.
[27:41] We don't hear-
[27:42] Steffen: Yeah
[27:42] … Noelle: what people are saying to each other anymore.
[27:44] Steffen: Right.
[27:44] Right.
[27:44] Exactly.
[27:45] Noelle: I never thought about that, but that's a- Yeah … totally different,
[27:47] that's a total aspect of riding now.
[27:49] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[27:49] Noelle: Mm-hmm.
[27:49] Is everything is this quiet conversation-
[27:51] Steffen: Yeah
[27:51] … Noelle: that's happening between two people.
[27:52] Steffen: Yeah.
[27:53] Yeah.
[27:53] Hm.
[27:53] Noelle: Interesting.
[27:54] Steffen: You know, and therefore, I always had this idea, and I did a, did many
[27:58] clinics together with, um, with Janet Foy so that, you know, you, you get the
[28:04] comments from a judge, and then she would say, um, "Stefan, now I'm turning it
[28:08] over to you, and you fix this." You know?
[28:10] So I, I like that quite a bit, and we used to do that, um, quite a bit where we
[28:15] had a panel of 12, 15 judges, and then we had three, four horses, and there would
[28:21] be a day where you go through the levels, more emphasis on the advanced level.
[28:26] And I think that was, that was very effective.
[28:30] But, um, I, I really like the idea of doing clinics together with judges.
[28:36] Noelle: Cool.
[28:37] Steffen: I have to be careful because there's a very logical,
[28:41] acceptable rule that makes sense.
[28:43] I can't work with a judge-
[28:44] Noelle: Yeah
[28:45] … Steffen: if I'm competing within six months.
[28:48] You know, that, that makes perfect sense.
[28:50] There shouldn't be this biased situation.
[28:52] But, um, the clinics with a trainer and a judge, highly respected judges, I think
[28:58] that's, um, where we can, where we can get a little closer and- Mm … address
[29:03] that, what you just mentioned, you
[29:05] Noelle: know?
[29:05] Yeah.
[29:06] Well, and I think understanding, I think there's a huge difference
[29:09] between, you know, there's…
[29:11] I think the, the journey of the rider, and I'm curious what you think about this,
[29:15] there is understanding it, like you and I having an intellectual conversation
[29:19] about what it is to be a great rider or what it is to be a great horseman,
[29:23] and then you go out and you apply that And you apply what you think it is,
[29:30] and then you apply what you know it is.
[29:33] Mm-hmm.
[29:33] And then it becomes like driving.
[29:36] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[29:36] Noelle: Right?
[29:36] I feel like is that, do you feel like that's the- For sure … arc of the rider?
[29:40] Steffen: Yeah, for sure.
[29:40] Noelle: Is you think, you do, you try, you do, and then you, sort of you master.
[29:46] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[29:46] Noelle: Or it becomes like breathing.
[29:48] Steffen: It, it, absolutely.
[29:49] What I mentioned before was, uh, networks that wire together, they fire together.
[29:54] Noelle: Yeah.
[29:55] Steffen: And, um, it, it is so interesting, you know.
[29:58] There's been many times when, um, when I dream about riding in the middle
[30:02] of the night, and, um, I wake up because I, I gave my horse a little
[30:07] bit of a firm a wake-up call, for instance, going from walk to the trot.
[30:11] Noelle: Yeah.
[30:11] Steffen: And Shannie wakes up, and she goes, "Which horse were you riding?"
[30:17] No, really?
[30:18] But, but what I'm, but what I'm saying, I honestly don't think
[30:22] about waking this horse up.
[30:24] This, this, it's a reflex.
[30:26] If it, if it's just for a 10th of a second behind the leg,
[30:29] I'm not dreaming right now.
[30:31] Yeah, yeah.
[30:31] I'm actually in reality.
[30:32] Um, yeah, you're right.
[30:34] It, it becomes like breathing.
[30:36] It becomes a reflex.
[30:37] Or if there's a moment when a horse is just a little bit, um, heavier
[30:42] than I like, you know, I make my correction with a half halt, with a
[30:46] bending aid, whatever that is, but it is always a rewarding aid afterwards.
[30:50] It's a giving rein aid, you know, or a petting aid.
[30:54] So you, you're absolutely right.
[30:56] It, it becomes, it, it gets to a point where it becomes a reflex.
[31:00] There's… Sorry.
[31:02] Noelle: No, please.
[31:02] Steffen: There, there, there's, there was one more situation where I first
[31:07] experienced that really, really deep flow stage, which was, w- I was a
[31:12] bit worried about that at first, but I talked to, you know, lots
[31:17] of, um, psychologists about it, not necessarily in a, in a therapy session.
[31:23] Mm-hmm.
[31:23] Just as a communication like we have right now.
[31:27] And what happened, 2008, I got done with the Grand Prix.
[31:33] And I was asked, um, how did it feel.
[31:37] I, I couldn't tell you.
[31:38] I'd… For three, four minutes, I didn't remember the test.
[31:43] And they say, "Don't worry about this. That's, that what's flow state is
[31:46] all about. You were in such a zone."
[31:48] Noelle: You were completely
[31:49] Steffen: present.
[31:49] Completely, completely present in it, you know?
[31:52] And, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's a pretty, pretty amazing situation.
[31:58] It's so powerful what our, what our brain can do, you know?
[32:03] But we, again, we have to be careful that it can go both ways.
[32:06] Noelle: Yes.
[32:07] Steffen: You know?
[32:07] Noelle: Like a ra- Like a, like a blade, right?
[32:10] Steffen: Yes, exactly.
[32:10] Noelle: Okay, so you… I just put it together.
[32:13] This is so cool, 'cause I've not been able to talk to- about
[32:15] flow state with a rider before.
[32:17] Mm. And because you have such a deep understanding and respect and
[32:20] appreciation for- Mm-hmm … the mind, the body, and the soul, and all the
[32:24] ways in which they interconnect, then it's really in- it feels natural that
[32:28] we would talk about flow state together.
[32:30] Mm-hmm.
[32:30] Okay, so you have feel, right?
[32:34] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[32:34] Noelle: Which is… I've come… I'm curious, like, if you… What I've come
[32:39] to define feel as is an ability for a rider to be present and to be able to
[32:44] react with the horse moment to moment.
[32:47] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[32:47] Noelle: Right?
[32:48] When people say, "Oh, that rider has great feel"-
[32:50] Steffen: Mm-hmm
[32:50] … Noelle: I think that rider is just immensely present-
[32:53] Steffen: Very present
[32:53] Noelle: in their body-
[32:54] Steffen: Mm-hmm
[32:55] … Noelle: so that they can… That it doesn't, they don't even have to
[32:58] really think about it in their brain.
[32:59] Mm-hmm.
[33:00] Like, they're, they're responding with the wisdom of their body, right?
[33:03] Mm-hmm.
[33:04] But then I think, okay, great riders have great feel.
[33:08] Great riders are great, are very present, and you have to be very
[33:11] present in order to achieve flow state-
[33:13] Steffen: Mm-hmm
[33:14] Noelle: with your horses.
[33:15] Steffen: For sure.
[33:16] Noelle: Okay, but here's the big question.
[33:18] Here's the, oh, the question only a master can answer.
[33:20] Okay?
[33:22] I'm not a master yet.
[33:24] Maybe one day, but I'm not.
[33:26] I'm so far from it, and I have so much to learn.
[33:28] And I feel like I want to know what, like, what is the… what do you feel
[33:34] like is the journey from understanding intellectually, going and doing what
[33:40] you think you're supposed to do.
[33:43] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[33:43] Noelle: Then through doing that, you learn what you, how to do it well, which I feel
[33:50] like that can be quite a big distance.
[33:52] Mm-hmm.
[33:53] And then after that, you then establish a, a mastery that you can then respond
[33:58] and be with your horse present-
[34:01] Steffen: Mm-hmm
[34:01] … Noelle: with a lot of feel to achieve flow state.
[34:05] Steffen: Yeah.
[34:07] Um-
[34:07] Noelle: It's a big question
[34:08] Steffen: ve- very good point.
[34:09] It, everything of course needs to start with a standard, you know, with
[34:13] an expectation and with a mindset.
[34:16] You know, first of all, you, you, you have to believe that this
[34:19] is, this can actually happen.
[34:21] Noelle: Yeah.
[34:21] Steffen: You know?
[34:22] Um, so many people say, "Ah, but this doesn't make sense that I
[34:25] ease up with my leg for a moment."
[34:27] But it, it does make sense, you know?
[34:29] And I honestly think when we can create that presence and that
[34:36] awareness in a horse, we are in, in, in a really good place.
[34:41] And I believe that it starts with young horses, um, on a
[34:45] lead rope in a, in a halter.
[34:48] You know?
[34:48] When, when I walk next to my horse, it, it… I, I really have a problem
[34:53] when, when I see clients, um, when they just need to have constantly
[34:57] contact with the lead rope.
[34:59] A horse should learn when you walk with a horse, it should stay near your shoulder,
[35:03] and when you stop, without touching the lead rope, the horse should stop.
[35:07] You know, when you move towards the horse, it, it needs to yield a little bit.
[35:11] Not that you wanna be dominant, you know?
[35:14] And, and I honestly don't like this, this word submission, but I like cooperation.
[35:19] Noelle: Mm.
[35:20] Steffen: True cooperation, you know, where I need to cooperate,
[35:23] but my horse is cooperating.
[35:25] And it-- I sometimes use the example as a, a person walking a dog on the leash.
[35:33] You know, we've all seen that, you know.
[35:34] When people walk the dog, the dog can barely breathe, it's pulling so hard.
[35:39] There is zero presence.
[35:40] There's zero respect.
[35:42] There's zero communication, you know?
[35:45] But we have to- Yeah … teach the dog to heel a little bit and say, "Hey,
[35:48] you need to sit down for a moment and, and wait with me, and then you
[35:52] walk with me when, when I'm walking." Nothing different with horses.
[35:56] Noelle: Mm.
[35:57] Steffen: Nothing different with horses.
[35:59] It's, you know, beside the idea of, um, getting a horse truly in front of the leg.
[36:04] We talked about that.
[36:05] Mm-hmm.
[36:05] But, you know- You, you won't believe when I ask in a clinic, when I ask a person,
[36:12] young horse, a more advanced horse, if I ask that person to just stand still
[36:18] and apply enough contact that the horse gives in the bridle and not using too
[36:24] much rein where the horse goes rein back.
[36:26] So I don't want the horse to go rein back.
[36:28] I don't want the horse to go forward.
[36:30] I want the horse to understand in the halt that we need to give
[36:33] in the poll and in the top line.
[36:36] 95% of all horses where I start this with, they, they can't do it You know?
[36:42] And then, so I'd like to teach the horse that in the halt, there needs to be
[36:46] al- already this nice soft connection.
[36:49] And when, when you take the first step forward, the horse shouldn't just grab
[36:53] the bit and be all over the place.
[36:55] You know, you go back to the halt, and you make it very, very clear
[36:59] what the connection is all about.
[37:01] Mm-hmm.
[37:02] You know?
[37:02] And no, I truly believe a horse has two choices.
[37:05] They either learn to respect and accept the bit, or they fight
[37:11] it for the rest of their life.
[37:13] You know?
[37:13] They twist their jaw, they open the mouth, you know?
[37:16] Noelle: Yeah.
[37:16] I,
[37:17] Steffen: yeah.
[37:17] And this, this, this whole understanding of a soft contact
[37:20] where a horse is present.
[37:22] When a horse is pulling you around, the horse is not present.
[37:25] It's-
[37:26] Noelle: Yeah
[37:27] … Steffen: in a different world somewhere f- working a little bit against you.
[37:30] Mm. That's not the right stage we want the horse to be in, you know?
[37:34] So it, on a very, very basic level, that's where it starts, where-
[37:38] Noelle: I love that exercise
[37:39] … Steffen: you know, you, you, you walk the, you walk the dog on the leash.
[37:43] Noelle: Yeah.
[37:44] Steffen: You know?
[37:45] Noelle: Yeah.
[37:46] No, but this is so important because again, these are things
[37:48] that, like, I always think, "What's the key that allows people to
[37:52] just, even just get into the room-
[37:54] Steffen: Yes
[37:55] Noelle: of presence?" Mm-hmm.
[37:56] Into the room of mindful riding.
[38:00] Steffen: A- awareness, yep.
[38:00] Noelle: Right?
[38:01] Mm-hmm.
[38:01] And I feel like some, you know, we talk about it.
[38:04] "Oh, that rider's amazing. Oh, that rider is so- Mm-hmm … you know, look at the
[38:07] feel. That was- Mm-hmm … that rider was born with feel," blah, blah, blah, blah.
[38:11] But I'm always, like, from such a young age, I was like, "Yeah, but why?"
[38:16] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[38:16] Noelle: You know, what am I seeing?
[38:17] Mm-hmm.
[38:17] Explain to me what I'm seeing.
[38:19] Steffen: Yeah.
[38:19] Noelle: And, and then let's, and then break it down.
[38:22] Mm. What are the ways in which these … 'Cause to me, I think of,
[38:26] and when you talk about this, it's funny, I brought this up with Lee.
[38:29] I talked about this, um, actually with Evan.
[38:33] It's, it brings up to me, when I hear you talk about that,
[38:37] two things come up in my mind.
[38:39] Mr. Miyagi.
[38:39] Mm-hmm.
[38:41] Wax on, wax off.
[38:42] Steffen: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[38:42] Noelle: Right?
[38:43] What does this have to do with karate?
[38:44] Everything.
[38:45] Steffen: Yes.
[38:46] Noelle: Right?
[38:46] Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
[38:47] Mindfulness is everything.
[38:48] Mark Rashid talks about you can be a soft rider in the way that you
[38:52] pour your coffee in the morning.
[38:54] Steffen: There you go.
[38:55] I like that.
[38:56] Noelle: Right?
[38:56] And what it is, you know why Mark Rashid talks about that?
[38:59] Because he is, he is a, he's committed to a life of a martial artist.
[39:04] Mm.
[39:04] Steffen: He
[39:04] Noelle: does aikido.
[39:05] Steffen: Okay.
[39:06] Noelle: And he created a martial arts form called abaido- Mm … which
[39:10] is the c- which is, the, called, it translates as the way of the horse.
[39:13] Steffen: Mm.
[39:14] Noelle: And it's, he's taken how he, they can use- Um, what w- what would be more a
[39:19] defensive, um, non-aggressive martial arts and how that applies to us in the saddle
[39:27] Steffen: Mm-hmm
[39:27] Noelle: And it w- like, I'm telling you, Stephan, it broke
[39:30] my brain because it makes sense.
[39:33] If we wanna be mindful riders, we have to be mindful people
[39:36] Steffen: Mm-hmm
[39:36] Noelle: How we p- if we s- w- you know, I think of, like, people who
[39:39] are, like, crashing around the w- the world- Mm-hmm … that they live in
[39:42] Steffen: Yeah
[39:42] Noelle: And then they go grab their horse's halter, and they pull or
[39:44] whatever, whatever Yeah, yeah,
[39:45] Steffen: yeah, yeah.
[39:45] Yeah
[39:45] Noelle: They can't be smooth- No, for sure
[39:48] and thoughtful and mindful- Yeah … if they're thrashing around in their daily
[39:51] life Yeah And I say that as someone who has thrashed around in my daily life
[39:55] Steffen: Mm-hmm
[39:55] Noelle: Right?
[39:57] And then my horses are like, "What are you … What is going on with you?"
[40:00] Steffen: For sure
[40:01] Noelle: And of course, I can't achieve deep connection, and
[40:05] presence, and flow- Mm-hmm
[40:06] if I am not in flow in my life, in my environment
[40:09] Steffen: Yeah.
[40:10] Yeah.
[40:10] Yeah, for
[40:10] Noelle: sure So it's like the way of the samurai
[40:12] Steffen: Yeah, exactly
[40:12] Noelle: You're a samurai, Stephan.
[40:15] You're like a samurai
[40:16] Steffen: You know, maybe th- that's, maybe that's why I like to, uh, orient that
[40:20] much, especially, um, people in Japan
[40:23] Noelle: Oh, yeah
[40:23] Steffen: Nobody honks their horn in traffic.
[40:26] People are very respectful.
[40:27] I, and I watch people.
[40:29] I don't judge people anymore, but I watch people, you know?
[40:32] 'Cause you
[40:32] Noelle: don't judge yourself anymore
[40:33] Steffen: Yeah, exactly.
[40:35] You know, that, that took a while, but we're learning, right?
[40:39] Noelle: It's a life pursuit, I think
[40:40] Steffen: Yeah.
[40:41] But, um, that was very fascinating to see in Japan how respectful people are,
[40:45] you know, and how, um Their world works just as good, probably even better
[40:52] than our world over here, you know?
[40:54] Yeah.
[40:55] Um, that was fascinating to see.
[40:57] That's why I just absolutely loved to be in, in Tokyo.
[41:01] Noelle: Mm.
[41:02] Steffen: So the whole thing was great.
[41:04] Noelle: So to wrap every episode, I ask guests the same series of questions, and
[41:09] I'm really excited to hear your answers.
[41:13] Okay, the first question is, if you could read one book to the
[41:17] horse world, what would it be?
[41:19] Steffen: It, uh, Unto That Soul- Yeah … for sure.
[41:22] Noelle: Of course.
[41:23] Yeah.
[41:23] But on so many levels I'm glad you explained why.
[41:26] Steffen: Yeah, yeah.
[41:27] Noelle: You know?
[41:28] W- how… 'Cause some- I think a lot of people in the horse world, they just wanna
[41:31] know how it's gonna help their riding.
[41:33] Mm-hmm.
[41:34] Right?
[41:34] And you're like, "Yeah, but how is it gonna help your horsemanship?"
[41:37] Steffen: Mm-hmm.
[41:37] Noelle: Like, 'cause that's, that's… And it's so powerful the
[41:42] way you explained how observing our thoughts- Mm … affects us as riders.
[41:45] Steffen: Yeah, for sure.
[41:47] Noelle: Who is the most iconic horse in history?
[41:51] Steffen: It would have to be, um, Totilas, you know?
[41:54] Mm. Um, I think that was quite fascinating what, what he did.
[41:59] It was, you know, one of those horses that, um, I call them overnight
[42:04] superstars because it didn't just evolve.
[42:06] He showed up and it was immediately over 80%.
[42:10] Noelle: Yeah.
[42:11] Steffen: You know, most horses they, the judges see it's a new kid on the
[42:14] block, it needs to develop a little bit.
[42:16] But, um, that was, um, overnight pretty fascinating.
[42:22] Noelle: Do you think… Actually, I've gotta ask you this question.
[42:24] Do you think the sport was ready for that horse?
[42:28] Steffen: I, I think so.
[42:30] I think so.
[42:30] They, they could see that, that Edward did a, did a really good job with him.
[42:35] Noelle: Mm-hmm.
[42:35] Steffen: You know?
[42:36] Yeah.
[42:37] And, um, even Edward, knowing him quite well, uh, knew that that same training
[42:45] that he did with this horse could not produce another Totilas, you know.
[42:49] He was quite realistic about that.
[42:52] Um, yeah, I think, I think people were ready and then, you know, the
[42:58] jealous minds were very critical.
[43:01] You know, the … I mean, I competed many times against him, and I personally
[43:07] have to say, um, yeah, I knew most likely he would win at the World Games, but I
[43:13] still got a kick out of watching him.
[43:16] Noelle: Yeah.
[43:17] Steffen: You know?
[43:17] And I had one person say in our inner circle, say, "Stefan, what are
[43:22] we gonna do to beat Totilas?" And I said, "You, you just, just watch him."
[43:26] Yeah.
[43:26] "Enjoy and watch him. You know, this, this is really good dressage." And,
[43:31] uh, that's still my outlook nowadays.
[43:34] If it's a test, um, that I see that's clearly better than mine, it's okay.
[43:39] Noelle: You just appreciate
[43:40] Steffen: it.
[43:40] Yeah, appreciate it.
[43:41] And before, you know, there was no … I'm not afraid to admit this.
[43:46] There, there was too much competitiveness, and I, I honestly think that's
[43:50] almost a sign of a weakness where you, where you're so competitive
[43:55] and you're only happy if you win.
[43:59] You know?
[43:59] Then there, it's, it's not quite right.
[44:03] You know?
[44:03] You gotta appreciate when somebody's better and when somebody deserves to win.
[44:09] And of course, a certain degree of competitiveness has to be there.
[44:12] Yeah.
[44:13] There's no doubt.
[44:14] But too much is a sign of insecurity
[44:18] Noelle: Most undervalued skill as a rider?
[44:22] Steffen: Um, understanding the contact.
[44:26] I think everybody gets it where you get a horse maybe a little
[44:30] bit more in front of the leg.
[44:32] Noelle: Mm-hmm.
[44:32] Steffen: You know?
[44:32] But truly understanding the, um, the, the concept of, of a light
[44:38] contact and guiding a horse into a correct frame, into self-carriage.
[44:43] Yeah?
[44:43] So to narrow it down, the proper use of the rein.
[44:47] Noelle: Yeah.
[44:48] Steffen: It's, it's a bit mis- maybe not just misunderstood, but not,
[44:52] probably not talked about enough.
[44:54] Because everybody says, "Use your, use your, use your leg, use your seat, don't
[44:58] use your rein." That's great in therapy.
[45:01] A horse still has to understand the concept of a rein aid.
[45:05] Noelle: Yes.
[45:05] Steffen: There, you know, there's no doubt about it, and I, I love to
[45:08] talk about it quite a bit in clinics.
[45:11] But you would never, um, hear me say, like I said before, "Push him
[45:15] more into the bridle," or you would never hear me say, "Now, now give."
[45:20] I always tell the riders, "You have to create the proper moment to release
[45:24] the rein." Mm. You have to create that, that perfect situation where you say,
[45:29] "Yeah, now if I give my rein, my horse stays in that frame that I co- that I
[45:34] created before." So it's the contact.
[45:39] Noelle: Who is the greatest horseman or horsewoman in history?
[45:43] Steffen: You know, I came from a, from an era, you know, where
[45:47] Dr. Klimke was still teaching.
[45:50] Klaus
[45:51] Noelle: Balkenhol.
[45:51] Mm-hmm.
[45:52] Steffen: Harry Boldt, who made, I still think, the bible of dressage.
[45:56] You know?
[45:57] Um-
[46:00] Johanna Mann.
[46:01] There were, there were so many of the old masters, you know, that, um, that
[46:06] I had a chance to ride with, you know?
[46:09] But, um-
[46:09] Noelle: Which is, like, so lucky.
[46:12] Steffen: Yeah, very lucky.
[46:13] Very lucky.
[46:14] Noelle: These men we, these people that we read about- Yeah … and you, you got a
[46:18] chance to learn from them, that's amazing.
[46:20] Steffen: Yeah.
[46:21] So that was an wonderful era, but also, you know, the people who are, who truly
[46:26] understand horses and who can work with a horse without a lunge line, without
[46:30] a bridle, on a circle, you know, do bridle less training, um, that, that is
[46:36] quite fascinating and something I would love to learn a little bit more about.
[46:40] Noelle: Do you think you will?
[46:41] Steffen: I, I, I think I would get a kick out of that, yes.
[46:45] Noelle: Yeah?
[46:45] Steffen: Yeah.
[46:45] Noelle: Well, you let me know if you want to.
[46:47] Steffen: Yeah.
[46:47] ' Noelle: Cause I know just the people who would love to teach you.
[46:49] Steffen: Well, perfect.
[46:50] Noelle: Yeah.
[46:51] Steffen: Perfect.
[46:51] Yeah, you, you're connected.
[46:53] Noelle: Okay, and last question, mares, stallions, or geldings?
[46:59] Steffen: In every breed you have some good horses and some horses
[47:05] that are not as, as talented.
[47:07] In, in every gender you have a horse that's-
[47:11] Noelle: Yeah
[47:11] … Steffen: good and bad.
[47:12] But I do know that the principles that we talked about, if you applied those
[47:21] properly with a stallion or a mare-
[47:23] Noelle: Mm-hmm
[47:23] … Steffen: I think they can, they have the ability to learn a little quicker.
[47:26] Mm. And a really good mare and a really good stallion is, is quite special.
[47:32] You know, more in mares because in general, uh, stallions think more about
[47:36] breeding, and, um, in many cases the best dressage stallion is a gelding.
[47:43] Noelle: Yeah.
[47:44] Yeah.
[47:44] Steffen: But there are exceptions, and I'm one of those lucky guys
[47:47] who is riding a stallion right now, and he's extremely smart.
[47:52] But I also had, uh, two wonderful mares, three wonderful mares- Mm
[47:56] that, um, were very competitive.
[47:59] Noelle: Will you give us a little bit of a l- look, see into this
[48:03] stallion, this new stallion of yours?
[48:06] Steffen: Yeah.
[48:06] Noelle: For as we wrap up, I'd love to end with talking a little bit about him.
[48:10] Can you just give us a little insight into what we can expect from you guys?
[48:13] 'Cause it's a really exciting partnership.
[48:15] I know a lot of people are pretty excited about it.
[48:17] Steffen: Yeah.
[48:18] Like I said, we made a video this morning.
[48:20] This was mainly meant for the, um, um, for the owners.
[48:26] Um, which I'm so grateful to that they allow me to ride this horse.
[48:31] But, um, it's also meant for Facebook.
[48:34] You know, you can only have 5,000 friends, but they can share the videos.
[48:38] Noelle: Oh, yeah.
[48:38] Steffen: So any time I put a video online, uh, the minimum is 60,000 views.
[48:43] Noelle: Wow.
[48:44] Steffen: And, um, again, you know, sharing, you know, what, what
[48:50] horses are capable of without the, without the loud aids.
[48:54] Noelle: Mm.
[48:54] Steffen: You know?
[48:54] With- without the, um, the strong riding, without pressing a
[48:58] horse into the bridle, you know?
[49:01] Um, he, like I said before, and the first thing that Christina mentioned
[49:07] to me, she said, "You know what?
[49:09] Uh, that was a really, really strong cardiovascular work- workout
[49:14] to getting this horse through the ring." You know? But he had the
[49:18] tendency to, um, to train the rider a little bit to say, "Don't quit.
[49:22] Don't quit." You know?
[49:23] Mm. And like I mentioned before, I, I let him maybe quit for a 10th of
[49:27] a second, and I make my correction, and then I make a big fuss of him.
[49:31] Noelle: Ah, yeah.
[49:31] Steffen: You know?
[49:32] Um, very talented for the piaffe, very good passage, um, wonderful changes, which
[49:38] were also difficult in the first few days.
[49:41] And what was interesting, all the things that I Worried most about, or not really
[49:47] worrying, but had to focus more on, like the piaffe passage and the changes,
[49:52] those worked perfectly in the test.
[49:54] There were other little things, like you pick up the, in the Grand Prix
[49:58] Special, you pick up the passage from the… I'm sorry, you pick
[50:02] up the canter from the passage.
[50:04] Noelle: Mm.
[50:04] Steffen: You pick up the right lead.
[50:05] He picked up the left lead.
[50:06] Noelle: Mm-hmm.
[50:07] Steffen: You know, a little miscommunication, and he had a little, um,
[50:12] balance error in a, in a right half pass.
[50:14] All those things that I didn't worry about, they, there were
[50:16] mistakes there, you know?
[50:18] But, but a wonderful horse, um- But you've only been together for two weeks.
[50:20] For a
[50:20] Noelle: very short time.
[50:20] He's,
[50:23] Steffen: um, he's 14 years old.
[50:26] Noelle: Mm.
[50:26] Steffen: You know, we take a lot of breaks, and that's another thing I wanted
[50:29] to mention before be- the, the, the walk breaks are so important, um, just
[50:36] for the muscles to gain oxygen again, and he benefits quite a bit from that.
[50:41] Noelle: Ah.
[50:41] Steffen: You know?
[50:42] And I remind myself, when I swim, I used to do just 20 laps, you know, in a row.
[50:47] Now, I'm doing six laps and take one minute, take a break for one minute.
[50:53] Noelle: Mm.
[50:54] Steffen: And it is amazing when you feel aerobic again, and
[50:57] the muscles have enough oxygen.
[51:00] Then you start, you know, row number seven, eight, nine, and you have the
[51:05] same strength that you had before when you started with number one.
[51:09] Noelle: Yeah.
[51:09] Steffen: And, and this, this reminds me, you know, with dressage, I see
[51:13] too many horses that are being ridden at one gait or one movement too long.
[51:19] Noelle: I could… Oh, God, Stefan.
[51:20] You know?
[51:20] I could not agree more.
[51:22] Steffen: And, and let's, let's think about it.
[51:24] You know, we're so worried about the, um, x-rays in a pre-purchase.
[51:28] When a horse has an issue, 90% of the issues are soft tissue.
[51:33] And, you know, we can really save the soft tissue by taking those walk breaks,
[51:38] let the muscles recover, and give those tendons a, a break, too, you know?
[51:44] I've heard once, um, two veterinarians talking.
[51:47] I was in the cross ties, and they were in the stall behind us, and
[51:50] they said, "You know what? We can't make any money at Stefan's barn."
[51:54] And I didn't say anything, but that was one of the best
[51:57] compliments I could ever get.
[51:59] Noelle: That's a great compliment.
[52:01] Well, Stefan, thank you so much.
[52:03] Sure.
[52:03] This was such a pleasure.
[52:05] Steffen: Pleasure was mine.
[52:07] Noelle: If the access and insight of this podcast makes you want to
[52:10] go deeper and actually apply these ideas with your own horses, NF+ is
[52:16] where I've brought together some of the best riders, trainers, horsemen,
[52:21] horsewomen, sports psychologists, and practitioners in the horse world
[52:28] Inside the NF Plus app, you'll find more than 70 masterclass courses on the
[52:33] challenges so many of us face: spooky horses, finding a distance, developing
[52:39] a better canter, developing feel, navigating fear and anxiety, or becoming
[52:46] a more thoughtful rider and horse person.
[52:49] Our instructors include Tick Maynard, Will Coleman, Carl Cook, Peter Wyld, Dr.
[52:56] Jenny Susser, Anne Kozinski, and so many more.
[53:03] I created NF Plus as a safe, thoughtful place to learn at your
[53:08] own pace with teachers and riders who have a wealth of knowledge.
[53:14] You can explore more at noellefloydplus.com or find the link
[53:20] to download the app in the show notes

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