# Living in a Material World - Ego, Spotlight People, Scapegoats, & Staying Clever

An episode of [The Middle School Mary Poppins Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1769915228), 15 Sep 2026, 27 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/75813518/apo7636811359.mp3

What happens when someone seems to value your talent, creativity, or helpfulness more than they value you? In “Living in a Material World: Spotlight People, Scapegoats, and Staying Clever,” I explore something I desperately needed an adult to explain when I was young: other people do not necessarily think the way you do. That does not mean everyone is bad, and it certainly does not mean kids should become frightened or suspicious. It means we can keep our good hearts while learning to notice patterns, set boundaries, and choose carefully who receives access to our time, trust, and ideas. We talk about “spotlight people,” the surprising strengths often found in the person who becomes the scapegoat, and why being useful to someone is not the same as being valued by them. For neurodivergent kids—and every helper, fixer, creative engine, and brave truth-teller—this episode offers permission to remain kind without measuring self-worth by how much you can do for everyone else. This week’s kid question takes us to India and gives Lieutenant Steve an opportunity to demonstrate his most important superpower. We also explore why animals can feel especially safe to neurodivergent young people, why support is a verb, and why my granny loved to say, “In Dog We Trust.” This is a hopeful flashlight conversation—not a warning siren. There is also Madonna, Dolly Parton, a Disney-villain detour, and a dog guarding the bedroom from invaders who never arrive. Recommended for middle schoolers ages 10–15 and the parents, educators, counselors, and caregivers who love them. Visit https://msmarypoppins.com for more about the podcast and upcoming downloadable materials that will help families, teachers, and young people carry these ideas into real life.Stay clever, little foxes. 🦊💜☂️🍪 Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-middle-school-mary-poppins-podcast--7467210/support. ☂️ CONNECT WITH THE MIDDLE SCHOOL MARY POPPINS PODCAST™ Website • Episodes • Resources • More https://msmarypoppins.com 🎧 Listen and follow The Middle School Mary Poppins Podcast™ wherever you get your podcasts. 📺 YouTube https://youtube.com/@middleschoolmarypoppinspodcast 💌 CONTACT Media • Speaking • Sponsorships • Advertising • Brand Partnerships suzanneswain@gmail.com Listener correspondence & messages for Lieutenant Steve 🐾 dearstevemsmp@gmail.com The Middle School Mary Poppins Podcast™ is independently produced. Partnerships are considered based on mission alignment, relevance, and appropriateness for young people, families, educators, and schools. Stop. Regulate. Listen. ☂️ Helping adults understand the kids in the middle. © The Middle School Mary Poppins Podcast™

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Well, hey folks, welcome back to the Middle School Mary
[0:05] Speaker 1: Poppins podcast, where it's always a beautiful day to bust
[0:09] Speaker 1: a few cognitive distortions, right? Well, today's subject matter is
[0:14] Speaker 1: a bit on the tender, kind of important slash hopeful side.
[0:18] Speaker 1: I'm going for that. My voice may waver a little bit.
[0:22] Speaker 1: I'm just getting over being really sick with a respiratory infection,
[0:26] Speaker 1: but it's the feels that are going to get me
[0:28] Speaker 1: this time. But this isn't a scary conversation or anything.
[0:32] Speaker 1: it's a flashlight conversation. It's really meant to help you
[0:36] Speaker 1: feel wiser and safer.
[0:39] Speaker 2: And hopefully more confident in your good heart.
[0:42] Speaker 1: So hi, I'm Suzanne and I'm your host here and
[0:46] Speaker 1: I am a master teacher, educational specialist, former librarian, therapist,
[0:51] Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff.
[0:52] Speaker 2: I've spent my entire.
[0:53] Speaker 1: Career learning about middle schoolers because they're my favorite people
[0:58] Speaker 1: and Middle School Mary Poppins is an organic, no-budget podcast.
[1:02] Speaker 2: It's self-funded.
[1:03] Speaker 1: I use an app and my decades of middle schoolers
[1:07] Speaker 1: and way too many browser tabs, that's for sure. But
[1:10] Speaker 1: it's kind of like my fake doctorate in a way
[1:13] Speaker 1: that I've created in my head in middle school sociology,
[1:16] Speaker 1: which I don't know that exists.
[1:18] Speaker 2: But it's really a.
[1:20] Speaker 1: Very real public dissertation that's built across more than 40
[1:23] Speaker 1: episodes and hoping to help you understand middle schoolers just
[1:27] Speaker 1: a little bit better and give them the benefit of
[1:29] Speaker 1: the doubt.
[1:30] Speaker 2: And that's why we're here.
[1:31] Speaker 1: But that dissertation is really now becoming a book, and
[1:35] Speaker 1: I'm really excited.
[1:36] Speaker 2: I've been working on it.
[1:36] Speaker 1: It's called Ridiculous Joy, How Tweens and Teens Can Thrive
[1:40] Speaker 1: in the Middle.
[1:41] Speaker 2: So why not, right? I think it'd be awesome.
[1:44] Speaker 1: And I'm just searching for the right literary representation to
[1:47] Speaker 1: help me navigate that, because I've never done anything like
[1:49] Speaker 1: that before. So And just a little bit of a
[1:52] Speaker 1: news update and a thank you, thank you. We have
[1:56] Speaker 1: over almost 850,000 downloads so far and like 46,000 Spotify
[1:58] Speaker 1: followers and 7,000 plus five-star.
[2:00] Speaker 2: Ratings on Spotify and Instagram.
[2:10] Speaker 1: We've made multiple number one appearances on the Apple podcast charts.
[2:14] Speaker 2: So, wow. You know, that's amazing. So, thank you.
[2:18] Speaker 1: And, you know, we're getting wonderfully close to that million. So, honestly,
[2:23] Speaker 1: thank you.
[2:23] Speaker 2: Truly. Thank you.
[2:26] Speaker 1: So the title of today's episode is, of course, a
[2:29] Speaker 1: little wink to Madonna. Material Girl was actually one of
[2:32] Speaker 1: my favorite songs. And although the material world it describes
[2:36] Speaker 1: has always kind of made me think about how much.
[2:40] Speaker 2: Energy people spend keeping up appearances.
[2:44] Speaker 1: And. Being polished may attract the spotlight, but being real
[2:49] Speaker 1: is where a genuine connection begins, I think. And I'm
[2:52] Speaker 1: going to choose real every time, no doubt, full stop.
[2:57] Speaker 1: So how about a kid question of the week? Before
[3:00] Speaker 1: we get started on this, this week's kid question comes
[3:03] Speaker 1: from a little guy named Samir, and he's in India.
[3:07] Speaker 1: And Samir's 12, and he would like to know, what
[3:09] Speaker 1: is Steve's superpower? So Steve's my dog. And he helps
[3:13] Speaker 1: me out. He's my emotional support friend and bestie. But
[3:18] Speaker 1: Steve's official superpower is what we call co-regulation.
[3:22] Speaker 2: So, vocabulary.
[3:23] Speaker 1: And that means Steve kind of notices when somebody needs
[3:26] Speaker 1: comfort and just kind of lends them his calm without
[3:30] Speaker 1: demanding an explanation or anything.
[3:31] Speaker 2: He just... doesn't want anything, just wants to help.
[3:35] Speaker 1: And his unofficial superpower is kind of, well, all right,
[3:39] Speaker 1: detecting cheese, definitely, but several rooms away even. But, you know,
[3:44] Speaker 1: many neurodivergent kids find animals easier to trust because animals
[3:48] Speaker 1: communicate more directly. And there's a podcast on that about.
[3:52] Speaker 2: Dogs and cats.
[3:53] Speaker 1: But we don't have to study every word and facial
[3:56] Speaker 1: expression and hidden meaning or social rules with animals, right?
[4:00] Speaker 1: And animals generally let us know, you know, where we
[4:02] Speaker 1: stand and they live in the now.
[4:04] Speaker 2: So it makes sense.
[4:06] Speaker 1: You know, it's a little bit easier to read in
[4:07] Speaker 1: less of a stressful situation, potentially. So right now, Steve
[4:11] Speaker 1: is lying by my feet and he's watching the bedroom
[4:14] Speaker 1: door for invaders. Probably there's none, but none are expected. But,
[4:19] Speaker 1: you know, Lieutenant Steve is always on duty. So but
[4:22] Speaker 1: support is a verb and it's something that we do.
[4:25] Speaker 1: So Steve actually is a great segue into what we're
[4:28] Speaker 1: talking about today. You know, support can look like sitting
[4:31] Speaker 1: close and honestly lending someone your calm for just a
[4:35] Speaker 1: minute and listening and respecting the word no or helping
[4:40] Speaker 1: someone find backup when a problem is just way too
[4:43] Speaker 1: big to handle alone. So animals don't replace trusted humans,
[4:48] Speaker 1: but they really can be such wonderful teammates. I mean,
[4:51] Speaker 1: sometimes love simply just sits beside you and watches the
[4:55] Speaker 1: door for you. And that's the best thing. You know,
[4:58] Speaker 1: that's safety for us and kind of beautiful. You know,
[5:02] Speaker 1: my granny used to say, in dog we trust. And
[5:04] Speaker 1: I always thought that was the cutest thing. It was
[5:05] Speaker 1: so funny because she was a very religious lady. But
[5:07] Speaker 1: she's like, you know, but still in dog we trust.
[5:10] Speaker 1: And she loved talking about her dogs.
[5:12] Speaker 2: So let's talk.
[5:13] Speaker 1: About something that desperately needed an adult to explain to
[5:16] Speaker 1: me when I was a kid.
[5:18] Speaker 2: And hopefully it'll maybe help you out a little bit too.
[5:23] Speaker 1: There's a sentence that I needed to hear along the
[5:26] Speaker 1: way that I would like to share with you now
[5:30] Speaker 1: because I would feel remiss if I didn't. And that
[5:32] Speaker 1: sentence is, other people don't necessarily think the way you do.
[5:39] Speaker 2: New concept. It took me a really long time.
[5:42] Speaker 1: Everyone doesn't think like you nor have the same brain
[5:46] Speaker 1: as you and thought patterns.
[5:50] Speaker 2: They may experience.
[5:51] Speaker 1: Things like fairness or loyalty and empathy, definitely forgiveness, differently.
[5:58] Speaker 2: And that doesn't.
[5:59] Speaker 1: Make you in any way foolish. It doesn't make everybody
[6:02] Speaker 1: else bad. Humans have different histories and habits and priorities
[6:08] Speaker 1: and growing edges. And they've made different choices. So totally
[6:13] Speaker 1: different outcome. You know, it's like getting a drink at Sonic.
[6:16] Speaker 1: You know, there's like 900,000 combinations.
[6:18] Speaker 2: Well, that's just a small smidgen.
[6:21] Speaker 1: Your heart can't be everyone else's instruction manual, even if
[6:26] Speaker 1: sometimes you think you should and then maybe.
[6:29] Speaker 2: That's your job.
[6:31] Speaker 1: But have you ever noticed that somebody likes you best
[6:35] Speaker 1: when you were helping them?
[6:38] Speaker 2: Hmm. Hmm.
[6:39] Speaker 1: I mean, maybe they loved your ideas or like you
[6:42] Speaker 1: had this great creativity and this awesome, you know, glowing
[6:46] Speaker 1: sun-like energy. Or, you know, the fact that maybe you
[6:49] Speaker 1: were just someone who would listen. And then you needed
[6:52] Speaker 1: care and maybe like, you know, some appreciation or credit
[6:56] Speaker 1: or permission to just say no. But then suddenly the
[7:00] Speaker 1: relationship changed and it felt different.
[7:05] Speaker 2: Like crickets, right?
[7:06] Speaker 1: So being useful to someone is not the same as
[7:09] Speaker 1: being valued. So that's the other big sentence, is that
[7:14] Speaker 1: being useful to someone is not the same as actually.
[7:17] Speaker 2: Being truly valued. Right?
[7:21] Speaker 1: You deserve relationships where your ideas are enjoyed, your needs matter,
[7:26] Speaker 1: and you can be a whole person with all of
[7:28] Speaker 1: your little wonderful idiosyncrasies and quirks, and not just the
[7:32] Speaker 1: helper person.
[7:33] Speaker 2: Or like a Swiss army knife of cool things you
[7:36] Speaker 2: can do.
[7:36] Speaker 1: When I was a kid, I could read people like
[7:40] Speaker 1: a book pretty easily, but I kept arguing with what
[7:44] Speaker 1: I would read about them sometimes. I noticed unfairness and
[7:49] Speaker 1: then kind of would just like explain it away because
[7:53] Speaker 1: I believe that my goodwill would inspire their goodwill and
[7:57] Speaker 1: it would match and everybody's better together, you know, kind
[8:00] Speaker 1: of fairy tale sort of stuff.
[8:03] Speaker 2: And I mean, we all know that that may not
[8:06] Speaker 2: always be true.
[8:08] Speaker 1: But reading people is really useful. And believing a repeated
[8:12] Speaker 1: pattern is what also protects you. So that's your safety net.
[8:18] Speaker 1: So it's like Pollyanna with a flashlight in the way.
[8:20] Speaker 1: I mean, our last episode, we were talking a little
[8:22] Speaker 1: bit about Pollyanna, right? And she's that famously kind of
[8:26] Speaker 1: like hopeful girl who plays the glad game. Like, I'm
[8:29] Speaker 1: glad about this. And I'm glad about that. Well, you know,
[8:32] Speaker 1: that kind of hope is awesome.
[8:33] Speaker 2: I love that. I would never, I love this word,
[8:36] Speaker 2: besmirch that in any way, okay?
[8:39] Speaker 1: But today, though, I want to kind of give Pollyanna
[8:42] Speaker 1: a little tool, like a cool Stranger Things 80s flashlight. Because,
[8:48] Speaker 1: you know, I kind of want to be more like
[8:51] Speaker 1: Pollyanna with a flashlight sometimes. Like, I'm searching for light always,
[8:56] Speaker 1: but I'm seeing what's actually happening in real time, like
[9:00] Speaker 1: staying in the present. Because it's like hope says people
[9:04] Speaker 1: can grow, but the flashlight serves the purpose of I
[9:07] Speaker 1: can't build my safety on who somebody might become. So
[9:15] Speaker 1: hope says I can forgive somebody, but then the flashlight
[9:17] Speaker 1: would help and say something like forgiveness doesn't require like.
[9:22] Speaker 2: Total unlimited access to me.
[9:25] Speaker 1: So with my autism, I have a really powerful sense
[9:28] Speaker 1: of justice and loyalty and forgiveness.
[9:32] Speaker 2: I try to live as.
[9:33] Speaker 1: True blue as humanly possible and would never think to
[9:36] Speaker 1: take advantage of someone. So I just assume everybody's like that.
[9:40] Speaker 1: And those are really beautiful qualities. I'm very proud of
[9:43] Speaker 1: that sense of justice and all of those things I've developed.
[9:47] Speaker 1: But they can make it painful to accept that the
[9:50] Speaker 1: fair ending doesn't come sometimes. So as a middle schooler
[9:57] Speaker 1: who is a neuro, especially neurodivergent middle schooler, you know
[10:01] Speaker 1: that sense of hope of like the good's gonna win
[10:03] Speaker 1: and all that well not always and that's a little
[10:08] Speaker 1: bit of a drip drip drip that we have to
[10:10] Speaker 1: you know understand but it's reality and getting smacked in
[10:15] Speaker 1: the face with a whole lot of reality it's like
[10:17] Speaker 1: wow the world seems mean So being realistic and honest
[10:22] Speaker 1: is really more valuable. So like hope and forgiveness and trust,
[10:27] Speaker 1: but access is a different thing. So when the flashlight
[10:34] Speaker 1: kind of shows a pattern, there's something there.
[10:38] Speaker 2: There's there there. It's the T, right?
[10:41] Speaker 1: Imagine meeting a new friend who's like everywhere, right? Okay,
[10:46] Speaker 1: they praise you and they push for like total best friendness.
[10:50] Speaker 1: And you're like, this is the coolest person. I'm so
[10:52] Speaker 1: excited about this person. And this, I mean, you could
[10:54] Speaker 1: be an adult doing, you know, meeting someone or a
[10:57] Speaker 1: middle schooler, same situation. But in middle school, it's like
[11:02] Speaker 1: they may simply be just totally excited. But when all
[11:06] Speaker 1: that attention pressures you to trust someone before you're ready.
[11:11] Speaker 2: We kind of call that love bombing.
[11:14] Speaker 1: And people do that sometimes to make an impression, like
[11:16] Speaker 1: make a big splash. They're trying to impress you and
[11:19] Speaker 1: be like, hey, I'm cool. I'm worth hanging out with.
[11:22] Speaker 1: And it's sort of like birds of paradise, you know,
[11:23] Speaker 1: doing all kinds of interesting things to attract their mate.
[11:26] Speaker 1: It's like they show off all their cool feathers. And
[11:29] Speaker 1: it's sort of the same thing. And in middle school,
[11:31] Speaker 1: there's a lot of that. You know, it's that peacocking effect.
[11:35] Speaker 1: But the clue isn't the enthusiasm. the clue is actually pressure.
[11:41] Speaker 2: Under pressure. But then, you know, you ask for a
[11:43] Speaker 2: little space. Like, this person kind of.
[11:45] Speaker 1: I've heard a story about a newbie high schooler where
[11:49] Speaker 1: this new person was really cool, but then they kind
[11:52] Speaker 1: of became like a buzzing little bee around them constantly.
[11:56] Speaker 2: And so.
[11:56] Speaker 1: Hi, Steve. And so she asked for a little bit
[11:59] Speaker 1: of space, and the person's like, well, after everything I've
[12:02] Speaker 1: done for you, like, no, you should come and do
[12:05] Speaker 1: this with me.
[12:07] Speaker 2: Well... Folks, that's manipulation.
[12:10] Speaker 1: Using guilt and pressure and confusion to steer another person's
[12:14] Speaker 1: choice to their will is, I mean, they're manipulating you.
[12:19] Speaker 2: That's not friendship.
[12:21] Speaker 1: Friendships don't use people like chess pieces. And one awkward
[12:26] Speaker 1: reaction doesn't tell the whole story. I mean, everybody has
[12:29] Speaker 1: bad moments. So I try to always give people the
[12:32] Speaker 1: benefit of the doubt. But patterns are patterns, right? And
[12:35] Speaker 1: a pattern is something that keeps happening forever. Especially after
[12:39] Speaker 1: you've explained that it hurts you when someone treats you
[12:42] Speaker 1: like that. So hopefully you'll stick up for yourself and
[12:45] Speaker 1: say something that, you know, politely, but just say, you know,
[12:48] Speaker 1: these are my boundaries. A big heart needs a fence.
[12:51] Speaker 1: But if those boundaries aren't accepted and cherished and respected,
[12:56] Speaker 1: is that really a friend? So a boundary is what
[13:00] Speaker 1: you do next. Like, I need some space, right?
[13:03] Speaker 2: And, you know, please don't share this information or.
[13:06] Speaker 1: You know, I can't do your part of the project because,
[13:09] Speaker 1: you know, you want to hang out with somebody else.
[13:12] Speaker 1: Or simply just no. No is a really hard word.
[13:17] Speaker 1: Extremely hard. And if you're in middle school right now,
[13:21] Speaker 1: hear me this. As an adult, no is even really
[13:24] Speaker 1: hard still. So it's something we have to practice saying sometimes.
[13:28] Speaker 1: Yet we're so good at it when we're like two.
[13:31] Speaker 2: Interesting. So.
[13:34] Speaker 1: Using good discernment about people's behavior or understanding with, you know,
[13:39] Speaker 1: recognizing these patterns that people do things means you have
[13:43] Speaker 1: to slow down and notice what repeats and choosing what
[13:47] Speaker 1: is healthy without, you know, declaring somebody like a villain
[13:51] Speaker 1: or anything. We're not, you know, detecting super villains here.
[13:54] Speaker 1: We're just detecting people that may take up a lot
[13:56] Speaker 1: of space. So I think the practical question is, Does
[14:01] Speaker 1: this relationship make room for both of.
[14:04] Speaker 2: Us to be friends?
[14:06] Speaker 1: Or does someone's friendship demand that a lot of attention
[14:10] Speaker 1: is drawn mostly to them? So we have things called
[14:15] Speaker 1: spotlight people and scapegoats. So we're not diagnosing anybody with anything.
[14:20] Speaker 1: This is not getting into mental health disorders and all
[14:24] Speaker 1: of that. And we're certainly not hunting for villains here.
[14:27] Speaker 1: Although I am excited to hear that they're adding a
[14:28] Speaker 1: new villains park at Disney.
[14:30] Speaker 2: So just adding that.
[14:32] Speaker 1: But spotlight people kind of want the center of attention
[14:37] Speaker 1: so badly that other people can begin feeling like stage equipment.
[14:43] Speaker 1: I'm the microphone or the ladder or part of the scenery,
[14:45] Speaker 1: but we're never going to have a line or anything
[14:48] Speaker 1: like that.
[14:50] Speaker 2: You are not equipment, okay?
[14:53] Speaker 1: So healthy people should be able to enjoy your talents
[14:57] Speaker 1: and the light you bring to the world without claiming
[15:01] Speaker 1: them as their own or kind of glomming onto you.
[15:05] Speaker 1: They can celebrate you when the spotlight lands on you
[15:09] Speaker 1: and give you equal time.
[15:10] Speaker 2: Because they care about you. Right.
[15:14] Speaker 1: Well, sometimes, you know, friendships or groups and classrooms or
[15:18] Speaker 1: teams like.
[15:19] Speaker 2: They choose what they call a scapegoat.
[15:22] Speaker 1: And it's not like the goat is the greatest of
[15:23] Speaker 1: all time, which actually kind of.
[15:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, they are because they have all the skills.
[15:29] Speaker 1: Usually this is a person that receives all that blame.
[15:32] Speaker 1: So everybody else can avoid looking bad or looking at
[15:36] Speaker 1: the real problem like they take the heat for everybody.
[15:40] Speaker 1: And usually have a lot of skills to fix things
[15:43] Speaker 1: and make sure everything's okay. But the scapegoat isn't necessarily
[15:47] Speaker 1: the weakest person.
[15:49] Speaker 2: And not by a long shot.
[15:51] Speaker 1: Often what's interesting is that the person, you know, this
[15:54] Speaker 1: person has like gobs of talent.
[15:56] Speaker 2: You know, you have this.
[15:57] Speaker 1: Great ingenuity and drive and bravery to get things done.
[16:02] Speaker 1: Or you just have this precision. Or maybe you even
[16:06] Speaker 1: speak a different truth. And whatever it is. Something about
[16:10] Speaker 1: their independence can disrupt an old pattern that other people
[16:15] Speaker 1: would prefer to leave alone.
[16:16] Speaker 2: Like, they're the movers and shakers.
[16:19] Speaker 1: And sometimes people like what's called the status quo, to
[16:22] Speaker 1: keep things the same. So people may use that person's
[16:26] Speaker 1: ideas and then call them the problem when they ask
[16:29] Speaker 1: for credit or fairness. And then the scapegoat feels kind
[16:33] Speaker 1: of confused, like, wait a second, that's not fair.
[16:38] Speaker 2: And sometimes they're.
[16:39] Speaker 1: Made to feel like they're a little crazy for that
[16:42] Speaker 1: or like not, you know, that.
[16:44] Speaker 2: They're wrong for thinking that.
[16:46] Speaker 1: So they may celebrate someone's talent while it serves them
[16:50] Speaker 1: to look better and then criticize it when that person
[16:53] Speaker 1: begins to stand up for themselves. And that goes back
[16:56] Speaker 1: to my ninth grader. You know, no one deserves to
[16:59] Speaker 1: be treated that way. And being the scapegoat doesn't, you know,
[17:03] Speaker 1: does not prove that someone is always right. I mean,
[17:05] Speaker 1: we all make mistakes and people play different roles in
[17:08] Speaker 1: different situations. We've all been kind of a little bit
[17:11] Speaker 1: bully-ish sometimes and a spotlight person in certain times where
[17:16] Speaker 1: we were not proud of that. But some people just
[17:18] Speaker 1: kind of are that way a bit. But unfair blame
[17:22] Speaker 1: is not proof that something is defective in you, okay?
[17:27] Speaker 1: Sometimes the person called the problem is simply brave enough
[17:30] Speaker 1: to name the problem. So if people use your light
[17:34] Speaker 1: and then blame you for shining, the.
[17:36] Speaker 2: Problem is not your light. Not at all. Your light
[17:40] Speaker 2: is beautiful.
[17:41] Speaker 1: And someone telling you that your light isn't beautiful, well, okay,
[17:45] Speaker 1: that's their opinion, but I'm not so sure about that.
[17:49] Speaker 1: So keep shining. I mean, just become thoughtful about where
[17:52] Speaker 1: you shine and who gets to stand close to that warmth.
[17:56] Speaker 1: Because warmth feels good. And creative, interesting people are fun
[18:01] Speaker 1: to be around.
[18:03] Speaker 2: So there are some green flags that you can look for.
[18:07] Speaker 1: Relationships rarely fit neatly into good person, bad person boxes.
[18:12] Speaker 1: That's not really a thing. So everybody's a little bit
[18:15] Speaker 1: of all kinds of people. But the more hopeful question,
[18:18] Speaker 1: I think, is what happens after the mistake? So safe
[18:24] Speaker 1: people can hear the word no. And they celebrate you
[18:27] Speaker 1: and give you credit and respect your privacy. You know,
[18:30] Speaker 1: they don't need you to become smaller so they can
[18:33] Speaker 1: feel bigger.
[18:34] Speaker 2: Right?
[18:36] Speaker 1: Safe doesn't mean perfect. That's not what we're saying. A
[18:39] Speaker 1: friend may misunderstand you and they may say something thoughtless
[18:42] Speaker 1: or become defensive. But the green flag is that they
[18:45] Speaker 1: return willing to listen and then change. It's the listen
[18:51] Speaker 1: then change thing. That shows that they truly care and
[18:55] Speaker 1: want to have a better relationship with you. But if
[18:58] Speaker 1: that part isn't there, what do they really want? Do
[19:03] Speaker 1: they want respect from you? Well, maybe, but maybe not.
[19:08] Speaker 1: And trust grows through honesty, respect, and accountability. We can't
[19:13] Speaker 1: just run away from your problems and then leave someone
[19:16] Speaker 1: else to clean up the mess. So here's where the
[19:18] Speaker 1: fence comes in. So imagine your inner life as a
[19:23] Speaker 1: garden containing time and ideas and trust, feelings, creativity, and
[19:29] Speaker 1: your future, that weedy garden, and you're cultivating it.
[19:33] Speaker 2: And offense doesn't mean the gardener hates anybody, and it
[19:37] Speaker 2: doesn't mean.
[19:39] Speaker 1: Anything negative. It just means that something inside is worth protecting.
[19:43] Speaker 1: So boundaries are good. A boundary may sound something like,
[19:48] Speaker 1: I can't do your part on this project because I
[19:50] Speaker 1: have a lot of other responsibilities. I want credit for
[19:55] Speaker 1: this idea because it was my idea and I worked
[19:57] Speaker 1: really hard on it. Don't share that photo.
[20:02] Speaker 2: Period.
[20:04] Speaker 1: I'm not discussing this right now or I don't have
[20:06] Speaker 1: the capacity to discuss this with you and we'll talk
[20:10] Speaker 1: about it later. Perfectly fine to say if no is
[20:14] Speaker 1: a little bit too hard, but simply no is good.
[20:18] Speaker 1: You know, a boundary can also mean sharing a little
[20:21] Speaker 1: bit less information with this person, you know, creating that
[20:23] Speaker 1: guardrail of what they're allowed to know. And, you know,
[20:27] Speaker 1: keep copies of your own work and, you know, block somebody,
[20:30] Speaker 1: that's fine. Or, you know, involve a trusted adult When
[20:35] Speaker 1: you need help, but be willing to ask because people
[20:38] Speaker 1: want to help you.
[20:39] Speaker 2: And you don't have to live in the dark on this.
[20:41] Speaker 2: People have a lot of good advice.
[20:42] Speaker 1: I guarantee you every adult has dealt with a spotlight
[20:45] Speaker 1: person at some point.
[20:47] Speaker 2: Shake your heads, folks. You know it. So we're here
[20:50] Speaker 2: to help you, but please.
[20:51] Speaker 1: Come to us if you feel like someone is taking
[20:54] Speaker 1: up all that air and you can hardly breathe. So
[20:59] Speaker 1: describe the behavior instead of trying to prove that someone
[21:03] Speaker 1: is a bad person, because that's not what we're trying
[21:05] Speaker 1: to do. But we want to know if they're a
[21:07] Speaker 1: safe person to be friends with. And if anyone asks
[21:10] Speaker 1: you for money and passwords, you know, photos, anything freaky,
[21:15] Speaker 1: physical contact, anything that feels frightening, essentially, you never have.
[21:20] Speaker 2: To solve that alone. You must talk to a trusted adult,
[21:23] Speaker 2: full stop, please.
[21:25] Speaker 1: So that's an absolute hard no. But asking for backup
[21:29] Speaker 1: is a good thing, and it's not tattling. So offense
[21:33] Speaker 1: is not revenge. Sometimes it helps a relationship become way
[21:37] Speaker 1: healthier and gives you a lot.
[21:39] Speaker 2: Less stress in the long run.
[21:41] Speaker 1: You don't need the whole group's agreement to protect yourself.
[21:45] Speaker 1: So here's the now what thing. I mean, even I
[21:48] Speaker 1: have to change directions sometimes. So My sense of justice
[21:52] Speaker 1: just wants like everybody to totally understand and make the
[21:55] Speaker 1: ending fair. Like be just, you know, I love the
[21:59] Speaker 1: word just be just. And my forgiving heart really wants
[22:03] Speaker 1: to leave the porch light on like forever. But sometimes
[22:08] Speaker 1: the healthiest step is not more explanation. It's just a
[22:11] Speaker 1: pivot like to change something. And a pivot doesn't erase
[22:15] Speaker 1: that something hurt you. It just asks like now what
[22:18] Speaker 1: will I do to protect myself better next time? Or
[22:22] Speaker 1: what could I build to make sure that I leave
[22:24] Speaker 1: the situation feeling secure? And that we have a mutual
[22:29] Speaker 1: friendship that's based on respect. And especially, like, who deserves
[22:34] Speaker 1: access to my time and my most sacred stories? You know,
[22:39] Speaker 1: who deserves my friendship? Because I'm worth being friends with.
[22:43] Speaker 1: And then when it turns that, you know.
[22:46] Speaker 2: Life is.
[22:47] Speaker 1: Still waiting and things happen. And you have to change
[22:51] Speaker 1: direction sometimes. And hopefully make a choice that may have
[22:54] Speaker 1: a better outcome. And sometimes growth isn't receiving the ending
[22:59] Speaker 1: that you deserved. But you received an ending you weren't expecting.
[23:04] Speaker 1: And now what did you do about it? And how
[23:07] Speaker 1: did you pick yourself up and keep going and find
[23:09] Speaker 1: a new way to make something work?
[23:12] Speaker 2: So....
[23:14] Speaker 1: Growth is realizing that you're still allowed to begin again
[23:18] Speaker 1: even if what you thought was going to happen isn't
[23:20] Speaker 1: really happening.
[23:21] Speaker 2: Like maybe the.
[23:22] Speaker 1: Good isn't winning right now or you don't feel like
[23:26] Speaker 1: the outcome was fair because you saw someone cheat on
[23:29] Speaker 1: a test or what have you. So you can pivot
[23:34] Speaker 1: and next time maybe try something different and see if
[23:37] Speaker 1: it changes it. So foxes, I mean, other people may
[23:42] Speaker 1: not think the way that you do. But believe me,
[23:44] Speaker 1: people will repeatedly show you who they are, right?
[23:48] Speaker 2: Words are words, but actions matter.
[23:51] Speaker 1: And someone doesn't have to be completely bad for a
[23:53] Speaker 1: behavior to be unhealthy. And you don't have to fear
[23:56] Speaker 1: the world to move through it wisely. It's just that
[24:00] Speaker 1: recognizing the patterns is a superpower that is a really
[24:04] Speaker 1: good thing.
[24:05] Speaker 2: It's there to keep you safe and keep the fence up.
[24:08] Speaker 1: So if you're the helper person or the fixer in
[24:12] Speaker 1: the group or this like total creative engine and, you know,
[24:16] Speaker 1: people sort of gravitate to you for light or maybe
[24:20] Speaker 1: you're that like really brave kind of truth teller kind
[24:22] Speaker 1: of person. And please hear this from an adult who
[24:27] Speaker 1: honestly means it, that you are worth protecting when you
[24:32] Speaker 1: are not producing something, right? You don't have to create
[24:36] Speaker 1: something amazing to knock everyone's socks off just to have
[24:40] Speaker 1: people let you feel valid and worthy of love and
[24:44] Speaker 1: affection and friendship and trust. You're lovable when you need help.
[24:50] Speaker 1: And your value isn't measured by how useful you can
[24:53] Speaker 1: be to everybody else all the time.
[24:56] Speaker 2: It's exhausting. Trust me, I know.
[24:59] Speaker 1: But there are people who will listen to your no
[25:02] Speaker 1: and cheer for your gifts and, you know, help pick
[25:05] Speaker 1: you up when you clumsily fall a lot, probably, and
[25:09] Speaker 1: make room for, you know, the whole story. So these
[25:13] Speaker 1: are the people you need to find. So, you know,
[25:16] Speaker 1: ninth grade is hard, but go find those people. And,
[25:21] Speaker 1: you know, you may just have one or two of them,
[25:23] Speaker 1: but that's worth their weight in gold. So be one
[25:26] Speaker 1: of those people for someone else and be one for yourself.
[25:30] Speaker 1: You know, our beloved Aunt Dolly once said, she said
[25:32] Speaker 1: a really neat quote, said, you never do a whole
[25:35] Speaker 1: lot unless you're brave enough to try. So sometimes bravery
[25:39] Speaker 1: means trying something new, I think. Sometimes it means definitely
[25:44] Speaker 1: protecting the wonderful person that you already are.
[25:48] Speaker 2: You're worth it.
[25:49] Speaker 1: You don't have to become hard to become wise or anything,
[25:52] Speaker 1: you know. A fence around your heart isn't a wall
[25:55] Speaker 1: against love. It just gives healthy love a protected place
[25:59] Speaker 1: to grow happily and big and strong. So if you like,
[26:04] Speaker 1: please go ahead and check out the website over at MsMaryPoppins.com.
[26:08] Speaker 1: I'm going to put up some materials that you can
[26:11] Speaker 1: download and work through, and maybe it'll help you out
[26:14] Speaker 1: kind of going through dealing with spotlight people and maybe
[26:17] Speaker 1: figuring out the next step. So you can find out
[26:20] Speaker 1: more about the podcast and everything we're building together over here.
[26:23] Speaker 1: I thank you so much for listening. And, you know,
[26:27] Speaker 1: all these materials will be available so families and teachers and,
[26:31] Speaker 1: like I said, definitely the middle schoolers can take some
[26:34] Speaker 1: of these ideas beyond the episode and into real life
[26:37] Speaker 1: because I hope it really can help you navigate this
[26:40] Speaker 1: complicated world. And I really hope school's going well for you.
[26:43] Speaker 1: So keep your big heart. Just carry a flashlight.
[26:47] Speaker 2: Build a fence if you need to.
[26:50] Speaker 1: And it is still a beautiful day to bust some
[26:52] Speaker 1: cognitive distortions. So always stay clever, little foxes. And until
[26:56] Speaker 1: next time, take it easy.

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