# 'We Don’t Have Healthcare—We Have Sickcare': Dr. Steven Lu on Fixing the System & the Future of Preventative Health

An episode of [Project 100 with Mark Bouris](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1767053714), 10 Jun 2025, 1 h 27 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/05ac4e52-79fb-46b8-849c-b305000bd6d0/61f339ca-9847-4ad7-8fce-b305000c0049/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=ef13e652-7a19-41fd-9d0f-b305000bd6dc

All content and media by Project 100 is created and published online for informational purposes only. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health or personal advice. **** Dive into the future of health with Dr. Steven Lu, a medical doctor with over 15 years of clinical experience and the visionary founder of Everlab, an Australian health-tech company launched in 2023. In The Longevity Lab, Dr. Lu shares his journey from clinical practice to pioneering personalized, data-driven care through Everlab, which empowers individuals to detect, prevent, and reverse disease risks. With expertise in genetics, adolescent and mental health, complex conditions, and geriatric medicine, he explores the challenges of modern healthcare, the critical need for proactive measures, the transformative role of technology and much more. One product I’ve recently added to my routine from the Bulk Nutrients range is their NMN Extend. It’s a science-backed blend of 10 powerful ingredients, including NMN, Resveratrol, and Hyaluronic Acid, designed to support everything from energy and muscle recovery, to skin hydration, joint health, and event mental clarity. Check out their NMN extend product here: https://www.bulknutrients.com.au/products/nmn-capsules Eight Sleep’s newest generation, Pod 5. isn’t just another bed-frame add-on; it’s a high-tech mattress cover that actively adjusts to your body temperature throughout the night, cooling, warming, and even elevating your body when needed, all based on real-time data. The new Pod 5 introduces for the first time, a hydro-powered blanket system, utilising the same technology as the cover to extend temperature regulation across your entire body, not just the mattress surface. Clinically proven to increase quality sleep by up to one hour each night, it’s basically like having an AI-powered sleep coach, personal thermostat, and advanced health tracker working for you while you rest. Head on over to eightsleep.com/project100 and use the code PROJECT100 (that’s Project one-zero-zero) and get up to $550 off your very own Pod 5. Trust me, your body will thank you for this investment in better sleep. The all-new WHOOP is here — now 7% smaller with 14+ days of battery life. New features like Healthspan show how your daily habits are affecting your rate of aging — and now you can check your blood pressure straight from your wrist. If you’re serious about performance, longevity, and actual progress — this is it. Sign up for a one-month free trial at WHOOP.com — or visit join.whoop.com/mentored for one month off your annual membership fee. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

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[1:06] Speaker 1: better sleep. Doctor Stephen Lou, Welcome to Protor one hundred mate.
[1:11] Speaker 2: It's my pleasure here. Thanks.
[1:13] Speaker 1: I've heard a lot about you. I don't know what eventually,
[1:16] Speaker 1: I have heard a lot about you. I know about
[1:17] Speaker 1: everlab and we're going to talk about that later. Park
[1:19] Speaker 1: that for the moment because ev lab is an area
[1:21] Speaker 1: we really want to get into. That's one of your
[1:23] Speaker 1: you're a founder of evlabs. So but maybe you just
[1:26] Speaker 1: kick off, just tell us you're a medical practitioner. But
[1:30] Speaker 1: talk about your doctor. You're a doctor, that you have
[1:34] Speaker 1: academic qualifications. What are your academic qualifications in sure? So?
[1:39] Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm a medical doctor. I'm a practicing medical doctor,
[1:41] Speaker 2: Australian trained. I started my career in neurosurgery and cardi
[1:48] Speaker 2: thoracic surgery and I did advanced training and intensive care
[1:51] Speaker 2: and then following that we can talk about you know
[1:55] Speaker 2: what made that transition? Yeah, what did they the transition
[1:58] Speaker 2: transitioning to you know the other end end of the
[2:01] Speaker 2: spectrum of like medicine, right, which is really proactive personalized
[2:04] Speaker 2: medicine of ever lamp. I used to work on the
[2:07] Speaker 2: other end, you know, so this is the sickest people
[2:11] Speaker 2: right at the end, right in invasive surgery circling in
[2:16] Speaker 2: the drain. You know, this is us in hospital bring
[2:20] Speaker 2: people back from like near death. So you can see
[2:22] Speaker 2: it's like very opposite ends of the spectrum. So I
[2:27] Speaker 2: had an epiphany halfway through because I realized, like most
[2:30] Speaker 2: of these patients do not really need to end up
[2:35] Speaker 2: in hospital, do not need to see the inside of
[2:38] Speaker 2: a kadiak theater or a intensive care Most things can
[2:43] Speaker 2: be prevented upstream.
[2:45] Speaker 1: That's interesting. So when you say thoracic surgery, you mean heart.
[2:49] Speaker 2: Chia, thoracics, yes, open heart.
[2:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, so thoracic being this territory here from about the
[2:55] Speaker 1: and when you say that, maybe they didn't need to
[3:00] Speaker 1: end up where you are, where they were in surgery
[3:04] Speaker 1: that is, or in intensive care. They probably had to
[3:08] Speaker 1: end up there at that stage, but you were saying
[3:10] Speaker 1: they probably never need to get that stage. Is that
[3:12] Speaker 1: what your point?
[3:13] Speaker 2: That's right? Yeah, by that point that was the only
[3:15] Speaker 2: thing that could have stopped them from dying basically, but
[3:18] Speaker 2: we could have prevented that circumstance.
[3:22] Speaker 1: It's funny though, I think to myself, when it comes
[3:24] Speaker 1: to medicine as it's delivered here in Australia and probably
[3:28] Speaker 1: the rest of the world, for that matter, but definitely
[3:30] Speaker 1: here in Australia. One of the great things about medicine,
[3:33] Speaker 1: and if we think about medicine in terms of longevity,
[3:36] Speaker 1: you know there was people living longer, is that when
[3:39] Speaker 1: it comes to surgery, it's very good.
[3:42] Speaker 2: It's very good because.
[3:44] Speaker 1: They can take hearts out and take out you know,
[3:47] Speaker 1: blood vessels and arteries and replace them and they're going
[3:50] Speaker 1: to even do things with their brain and repair arms
[3:53] Speaker 1: and legs and limbs and all that.
[3:53] Speaker 2: Sort of stuff. So it's brilliant.
[3:56] Speaker 1: Were very good, yeah, really good at it, and therefore
[3:59] Speaker 1: we do get long jet But because otherwise, if you
[4:01] Speaker 1: hadn't had that intervention at the time, we would have
[4:03] Speaker 1: died or something would have happen pretty quickly.
[4:06] Speaker 2: That's true to a certain extent, is that right? So
[4:09] Speaker 2: I think if you zoom out and have a think
[4:11] Speaker 2: about the health services and systems that we have, it's
[4:16] Speaker 2: very much a reactive care system, right. We call it
[4:19] Speaker 2: health care health care, but actually it's not technically healthcare.
[4:22] Speaker 2: WHI should really unpack that. It's technically a sick care system, right,
[4:27] Speaker 2: and this is the incumbent system culturally, that's also what
[4:30] Speaker 2: we expect. So basically you get sick, you come to us,
[4:34] Speaker 2: and that's around the for instance, take surgery. For example,
[4:38] Speaker 2: if you get appendicitis, you come to hospital. I honestly
[4:42] Speaker 2: don't know how much better we can get at doing this.
[4:44] Speaker 2: We used to cut your open to get your appendix out.
[4:47] Speaker 2: Then we did keyhole surgery. We're going to put three
[4:49] Speaker 2: little ports get your appendix out. Now we can do
[4:52] Speaker 2: it just one port. You don't even have a scar
[4:54] Speaker 2: on your belt. You can go through your belly button
[4:55] Speaker 2: get your appendix out. So I don't know how much
[4:57] Speaker 2: better that can get. But it is reactive care. So
[5:01] Speaker 2: something has happened, you come in, we fix it, and
[5:03] Speaker 2: that's a great episode of care. That is the definition
[5:06] Speaker 2: of success. But appendicidist is not what's killing people. Appendicide
[5:11] Speaker 2: is not what's limiting people's longevity or more importantly, their
[5:14] Speaker 2: health span, their quality of life. It's actually the more
[5:18] Speaker 2: insidious chronic disease processes that don't give you abdominal pain.
[5:23] Speaker 2: We have to go to hospital and discover you have
[5:25] Speaker 2: a pendicide. It's all silent until something terrible happens, such
[5:28] Speaker 2: as a heart attack. I think that's a great example,
[5:31] Speaker 2: and one thing that everlap wants to do is actually
[5:33] Speaker 2: we need to promote a cultural shift to say we
[5:37] Speaker 2: need to be much more proactive with our health, and
[5:40] Speaker 2: that is how you much more predictably. I think everyone
[5:45] Speaker 2: should be able to achieve longevity and health span. But
[5:49] Speaker 2: right now, if we just solve problems as they come,
[5:53] Speaker 2: you're kind of rolling the dice as well. So Ever,
[5:56] Speaker 2: since the nineteen hundreds, we've sort of turned the corner
[6:00] Speaker 2: from being killed by infectious diseases to gradually move towards
[6:07] Speaker 2: non communical diseases, which is now the biggest burden of
[6:10] Speaker 2: disease in the community.
[6:11] Speaker 1: So and that's an interesting point when it comes to
[6:14] Speaker 1: lifespan health span, particularly lifespan communical diseases, which were sort
[6:20] Speaker 1: of happening in the nineteenth century. In the first part
[6:22] Speaker 1: of the twentieth century, we're killing people at a young age.
[6:26] Speaker 1: Kids get it, you know, you can get you don't
[6:28] Speaker 1: know whatever. The diseases where you get something, you die
[6:30] Speaker 1: from it. But your profession, the health system if I
[6:35] Speaker 1: call it health system, your profession anyway, you work out
[6:38] Speaker 1: ways to fix it, both chemically, that is the administration
[6:42] Speaker 1: of drugs and surgery. I think what you're sort of
[6:47] Speaker 1: saying is that we probably haven't really advanced that much
[6:50] Speaker 1: further than that. I mean, you know, we probably extended
[6:52] Speaker 1: the lifespan of a in Australian mile to eighty one,
[6:55] Speaker 1: female to eighty two, whatever the case may be. But
[6:58] Speaker 1: in order to get it up to some other great number,
[7:00] Speaker 1: we've actually got to go back to the beginning, you know,
[7:02] Speaker 1: when we're a young person, and say, what are the
[7:05] Speaker 1: changes and or what are the markers that we need
[7:08] Speaker 1: to be watching. What are the things we need to
[7:10] Speaker 1: do about those things so that we can get from
[7:13] Speaker 1: mayighty one to maybe one hundred and one?
[7:16] Speaker 2: What insights do we need? So I think there are
[7:19] Speaker 2: a few fundamental premises here. Number one is we are
[7:24] Speaker 2: living longer as a civilization. I don't think we've lived
[7:27] Speaker 2: this long before. Some societies, their average life expectancy is
[7:32] Speaker 2: going backwards a little bit. But as a civilization, we've
[7:34] Speaker 2: never lived so long. But we've also never lived such
[7:38] Speaker 2: a big proportion of our lives in poor health and debility,
[7:44] Speaker 2: in low function, in poor health span.
[7:48] Speaker 1: You're talking about across the border or across them. We're
[7:50] Speaker 1: not looking at specific parts of the world.
[7:52] Speaker 2: We're taking in the in the mostly in the developed
[7:54] Speaker 2: developed nations, but even in developing worlds often the biggest
[7:58] Speaker 2: burden of disease is still chronic disease.
[8:03] Speaker 1: And what is what do you mean by chronic disease?
[8:05] Speaker 1: What does that mean?
[8:06] Speaker 2: Chronic diseases are things that don't kill you quickly, so
[8:09] Speaker 2: not like an acute disease like burns or hit by
[8:12] Speaker 2: a car or appendicitis. I think those things are acute diseases.
[8:16] Speaker 2: Chronic diseases are processes in your body. And there are
[8:19] Speaker 2: some that, like people can be quite familiar with. Here
[8:22] Speaker 2: are Here are the big five chronic diseases in Actually.
[8:25] Speaker 1: Glad you're doing me as five, because I've always thought
[8:27] Speaker 1: it was I've always read it as four. I wouldn't know.
[8:29] Speaker 1: I'm only learning. But you're going to two is five?
[8:31] Speaker 1: That's great, And I want to hear what these are.
[8:33] Speaker 2: I'll see WHI runs the extra one now, So number
[8:35] Speaker 2: one kind of escular disease.
[8:37] Speaker 1: And this number one killer in the world.
[8:38] Speaker 2: Number one killing by a long shot, by a big margin.
[8:41] Speaker 2: It's a little bit better than it was in the eighties.
[8:44] Speaker 2: We have made some gains there, partially because we're just
[8:48] Speaker 2: much better at doing stuff right. So you know, I
[8:50] Speaker 2: do research and work with the cardiologist at the Victor
[8:52] Speaker 2: and Hard Hospital. Some of the stuff they do is amazing,
[8:54] Speaker 2: but it's all reactive care. You know. It's like taking
[8:58] Speaker 2: out your appendix with one poor They can now thread
[9:00] Speaker 2: things into your heart and put a stand in and
[9:02] Speaker 2: clip the vowels in your heart, you know, just by
[9:05] Speaker 2: threading a wir in. But we're better at doing stuff.
[9:08] Speaker 2: But cardiovascular disease remains a number one killer.
[9:11] Speaker 1: So just on that then if you could just is
[9:13] Speaker 1: a number one killer. But in terms of us getting
[9:15] Speaker 1: better at dealing with it, you're just saying more from
[9:18] Speaker 1: an engineering point of view, in that instruments are better
[9:22] Speaker 1: and there's more efficiency and less cutting out, less invasion,
[9:27] Speaker 1: et cetera.
[9:28] Speaker 2: The reactive care component is better, the procedural component is better. Ye,
[9:34] Speaker 2: But we have an aging population as well. More and
[9:37] Speaker 2: more people have these diseases, but it's silent and what
[9:44] Speaker 2: we need to do is actually get in front of it.
[9:46] Speaker 2: So like cindivascular disease is number one, right, Number two
[9:49] Speaker 2: is metabolic disease. Metabolic disease is a big umbrella. So
[9:53] Speaker 2: some people think metabolic disease, do you mean diabetes? Diabetes
[9:57] Speaker 2: is under the umbrella of metabolic disease. It's a huge umbrella.
[10:02] Speaker 2: It's actually how your body functions, how you process sugars,
[10:06] Speaker 2: how your hormones work, what your body composition is, what
[10:10] Speaker 2: your inflammatory processes are. That's all metabolic health. And two
[10:15] Speaker 2: out of three people in Australia actually are in a
[10:18] Speaker 2: state of suboptimal metabolic health. So they don't have full
[10:22] Speaker 2: blown diabetes, but there is something in terms of their
[10:26] Speaker 2: function that is interfering with optimal metabolic function.
[10:30] Speaker 1: And will that eventually kill them.
[10:32] Speaker 2: It's likely to eventually drive another process that could put
[10:38] Speaker 2: them at risk of a sudden event or of early demise.
[10:43] Speaker 2: So metabolic health is the biggest contributor to things like
[10:46] Speaker 2: cardiovascular disease. It's the biggest contributor probably outsider genetics, or
[10:52] Speaker 2: more so than genetics, contributing to things like neurodegenitive conditions
[10:56] Speaker 2: like Alzheimer's, like Parkinson's disease. It's all systems are just
[11:02] Speaker 2: not functioning well. That's metabolic. So that's number two.
[11:07] Speaker 1: We're talking about an Australia. Like in terms of you're ranking
[11:09] Speaker 1: these things a cardiac arrest or heart disease, metabology disease.
[11:14] Speaker 1: And the third one is going to be.
[11:16] Speaker 2: There's different ways to rank them, but like I'm talking
[11:18] Speaker 2: more about the burden of disease, right, So number three
[11:21] Speaker 2: is muscular skeleidal disease. I think this is something that's
[11:25] Speaker 2: often overlooked.
[11:25] Speaker 1: I've never heard of that one. What is it?
[11:27] Speaker 2: Musco skeleidal Your muscles and your bone yep, how well
[11:32] Speaker 2: is your physical body working? And for folks who want
[11:36] Speaker 2: to really achieve longevity and to really achieve health span.
[11:41] Speaker 2: So that's living your life in your eighties and nineties
[11:44] Speaker 2: the way you're living in your fifties and sixties. Right,
[11:47] Speaker 2: I'm doing all the things that you want to do.
[11:49] Speaker 2: One of the biggest blockers to that goal, to that
[11:54] Speaker 2: reality is usually musculars scaldical disease.
[11:56] Speaker 1: It's always becoming frail.
[11:58] Speaker 2: Becoming frail, frailty, right, we call it, you know, if
[12:01] Speaker 2: you have a subopen musk, we call that cyclopenia. So
[12:03] Speaker 2: it's a medically defined condition.
[12:05] Speaker 1: Now is it a condition or is a disease? Cyclopedia,
[12:08] Speaker 1: Like your muscles start to diminish, is it a disease
[12:11] Speaker 1: state or.
[12:12] Speaker 2: It's it's more of a condition. I mean, like, how
[12:16] Speaker 2: do you separate a condition and a disease. So like
[12:19] Speaker 2: I think some folks would think a disease is an
[12:22] Speaker 2: active process. An active process would be like if you
[12:26] Speaker 2: had a motor neuron disease, it's an active process. Where
[12:29] Speaker 2: it's really like something there is an active process that
[12:33] Speaker 2: is diminishing your abilities, where a cycopenia is more so
[12:37] Speaker 2: the gradual loss of function. But from my point of view,
[12:43] Speaker 2: we really just want to look at the outcomes, like
[12:47] Speaker 2: we need to protect you from active processes, but we
[12:51] Speaker 2: also need to protect you from normal time based processes.
[12:56] Speaker 2: The process is like quite similar and the outcome is
[12:58] Speaker 2: quite similar, which is the outcome is very clear. We
[13:01] Speaker 2: need to be goal focused, which is strong bones as
[13:04] Speaker 2: you age, strong muscles as you age, while taking into
[13:08] Speaker 2: account the fact that it actually becomes harder to build
[13:11] Speaker 2: to build muscle.
[13:12] Speaker 1: Because are you saying that assuming that it's frailty, which
[13:18] Speaker 1: being the end goal. But the muscular skeletal demise, whilst
[13:25] Speaker 1: it's sort of inevitable as we age, you can slow
[13:28] Speaker 1: down the inevitability.
[13:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, if you know what I mean absolutely, Look, you
[13:32] Speaker 2: know there is a natural decline. Yeah, So I'll give
[13:36] Speaker 2: you an example. When you're thirty, the cost for you to
[13:41] Speaker 2: build on one hundred grams of muscle is going to
[13:45] Speaker 2: be much lower than the cost of you trying to
[13:48] Speaker 2: build it when you're fifty, what would the cost be, Like,
[13:50] Speaker 2: the cost would be the effort and the amount of
[13:55] Speaker 2: raw protein that you need. So basically, you know, like
[13:58] Speaker 2: what is the let's say all things accounted for, how
[14:04] Speaker 2: much protein do you need to eat to build up
[14:05] Speaker 2: one hundred and work out to build up a hundred
[14:08] Speaker 2: grams and muscle versus when you're thirty verses you're fifty.
[14:10] Speaker 2: So that is a natural decline, But it's about understanding that.
[14:15] Speaker 2: By the way, that's also different from person to person. Right,
[14:17] Speaker 2: So one key thing that people should always remember is
[14:20] Speaker 2: no two people are the same. We have different genetics.
[14:23] Speaker 2: We're all dealta different hand at the start of life.
[14:26] Speaker 2: And some people you've probably met these people, right, they
[14:29] Speaker 2: don't work out a lot, but they really put a
[14:31] Speaker 2: muscle very easily.
[14:32] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[14:32] Speaker 2: And some folks they're just at the gym like six
[14:34] Speaker 2: days a week. They're working really really hard, they're doing
[14:37] Speaker 2: all the right things, but something might be blocking them
[14:40] Speaker 2: from success.
[14:40] Speaker 1: Right.
[14:40] Speaker 2: So at Evelad, we try to find what those reversible
[14:43] Speaker 2: things are, but some of us also genetic. But that's
[14:45] Speaker 2: also important to understand because people are different, right, So
[14:50] Speaker 2: we have to play our hands differently if you want
[14:52] Speaker 2: to if you want to win.
[14:54] Speaker 1: What's that's three? So what's the fourth one?
[14:57] Speaker 2: Fourth? One's cancer? I think that's a no brainer. One
[15:01] Speaker 2: in two people will get a significant cancer by the
[15:05] Speaker 2: age of eighty.
[15:06] Speaker 1: WHOA.
[15:06] Speaker 2: That number is also going down.
[15:08] Speaker 1: What do you mean it's now one in three or
[15:11] Speaker 1: it's becoming.
[15:12] Speaker 2: That age is also going down, right, So like cancer
[15:14] Speaker 2: is going up?
[15:15] Speaker 1: Right.
[15:16] Speaker 2: In fact, this is very alarming. More and more young
[15:19] Speaker 2: people are getting cancer. So if you're age under thirty nine,
[15:26] Speaker 2: so if you've been through an age I think the
[15:28] Speaker 2: age gap is the age group is fifteen to thirty nine.
[15:31] Speaker 2: Solid organ trumans have gone up by eighty percent? What
[15:35] Speaker 2: in the past thirty years?
[15:36] Speaker 1: WHOA?
[15:38] Speaker 2: So these are very alarming statistics. So you know, I
[15:39] Speaker 2: went through medical school twenty years ago. When I was
[15:42] Speaker 2: in medical school, it was unheard of to have young
[15:45] Speaker 2: folks get like bow cancer. Now it's happens all the time.
[15:51] Speaker 1: I mine's wife, who's only forty early forties, had breast
[15:54] Speaker 1: cancer and passed away.
[15:57] Speaker 2: Cancer is on the rise. Cancer is now the deadliest
[16:02] Speaker 2: cancer for people between the ages of twenty five and
[16:05] Speaker 2: forty four in Australia.
[16:08] Speaker 1: As an older person's cancer.
[16:11] Speaker 2: It's these, it's these. See these are all like, these
[16:13] Speaker 2: are cultural assumptions that we make. And I see a
[16:16] Speaker 2: lot of these, and I hear a lot of these.
[16:17] Speaker 2: These are cultural assumptions that we make. I've got a
[16:21] Speaker 2: bunch of these, right, But one of those is cancers
[16:24] Speaker 2: are old person's problem. Well, I just told you the stats,
[16:27] Speaker 2: and I see it. I see it in practice.
[16:29] Speaker 1: Wow.
[16:30] Speaker 2: Also, you know cancer is a tricky one because you know,
[16:36] Speaker 2: we can try our best to predict it, and we
[16:38] Speaker 2: can to a much larger extent than people think. We
[16:41] Speaker 2: can use genetics, we use family history, we use biomarkers.
[16:45] Speaker 2: But the good thing about cancer is it does have
[16:49] Speaker 2: a weakness, which is like early detection. But you want
[16:52] Speaker 2: to make good decisions based on what your risk is,
[16:54] Speaker 2: and we know that the risk is becoming higher for
[16:58] Speaker 2: some reason. I think one day we'll look back at
[17:01] Speaker 2: twenty twenty five the way today we look back and
[17:04] Speaker 2: think about when we used to smoke all the time
[17:06] Speaker 2: and say, hey, like that increased cancer raised by one hundred,
[17:09] Speaker 2: like across one hundred different cancers. I think there are
[17:13] Speaker 2: certain factors that are happening now, but it is no
[17:16] Speaker 2: longer a young it is no longer an older person's problem.
[17:20] Speaker 1: And the fifth one, because I want to go through
[17:22] Speaker 1: each one of those in a moment, which.
[17:23] Speaker 2: The fifth line is neurodegenerative disease. Of course, Alzheimer's. You know, Parkinson's,
[17:29] Speaker 2: Alzheimer's projected to be by I think twenty forty the
[17:34] Speaker 2: leading killer in Australia. Obviously, it depends how you how
[17:38] Speaker 2: you how you define, how what you put on a
[17:40] Speaker 2: death certificate as well. But if you think about the
[17:44] Speaker 2: burden of disease and the burden of pain on our
[17:48] Speaker 2: community with an aging population, it's it's a real it's
[17:52] Speaker 2: a real concern.
[17:53] Speaker 1: Alzheimer's. In I presume you're neuro degenerative disease, you're including
[17:57] Speaker 1: these like Parkinson's.
[17:58] Speaker 2: And every modern your own dies. Obviously they're they're they're
[18:01] Speaker 2: a little bit rareer, but a vascular dementia, frontotemporal dementias,
[18:06] Speaker 2: lowy body dementias all under that same umbrella, but Alzheimer's
[18:11] Speaker 2: by far.
[18:11] Speaker 1: So we've got these five five. I used to think
[18:15] Speaker 1: of the four horse movie, the Five Horsemen now and
[18:18] Speaker 1: and the one that has never really been mentioned to
[18:22] Speaker 1: me before is skeletal. Muscular.
[18:25] Speaker 2: That's right, muscles and bones.
[18:26] Speaker 1: Muscles and bones.
[18:27] Speaker 2: But you know this is not a foreign thing to
[18:29] Speaker 2: people though. Osteoporosis, Yeah, totally.
[18:32] Speaker 1: Well, a number of people break their hips and fall
[18:34] Speaker 1: over and you know, like well because they haven't got
[18:37] Speaker 1: enough muscle to carry them is quite incredible. I've got friends,
[18:40] Speaker 1: older friends who that's happened to They face planted and
[18:44] Speaker 1: end up and they could have got brain damage, they
[18:45] Speaker 1: could have died. You know, they trip over something and
[18:48] Speaker 1: their ability to the fast twitch ability is not there
[18:51] Speaker 1: and they can't correct exactly, and largely sometimes it's something
[18:56] Speaker 1: to do with the negligence, but they're not paying attention
[18:58] Speaker 1: to either because they're older. They're sort of going to
[19:00] Speaker 1: leed trip over something that you or I might see
[19:02] Speaker 1: or you would definitely see, but their ability to correct
[19:07] Speaker 1: the position and not land flat on their face and
[19:10] Speaker 1: you know, perhaps crack their head open is diminished.
[19:14] Speaker 2: And because then they yeah, that's a functional deficity a
[19:17] Speaker 2: function is that? So is that a disease? That a condition? Well,
[19:21] Speaker 2: it's hard to categorize it, but without a doubt, it's
[19:26] Speaker 2: a functional deterioration. So why don't they have that reaction time?
[19:32] Speaker 2: Why don't they have that appropriate reception to you know,
[19:35] Speaker 2: like feel the position of the drawings. Why don't they
[19:38] Speaker 2: have the strength? Why don't they have the reaction time
[19:39] Speaker 2: to put their arms out? And some of these cases,
[19:42] Speaker 2: you know, the death certificate might say like bleed in
[19:44] Speaker 2: the brain or traumatic brain injury. But if you think,
[19:46] Speaker 2: why did this person even fall over, right, it's often weakness.
[19:50] Speaker 2: It's my CEO skele at all.
[19:51] Speaker 1: That's interesting. So you're so, let's just I think this
[19:54] Speaker 1: is a great way to get it to ev LAB.
[19:55] Speaker 1: So let's say I'm a thirty year old person or
[20:01] Speaker 1: thirty five year old person, and I'm listening to this,
[20:05] Speaker 1: and I'm thinking to myself, I get it. I understand
[20:09] Speaker 1: what you're saying. None of those conditions can I observe
[20:13] Speaker 1: in myself at the moment, but I wouldn't mind knowing.
[20:18] Speaker 1: And I presume this where overlap comes in, but I
[20:19] Speaker 1: wouldn't mind knowing. Are there any things that doctor Stephen
[20:26] Speaker 1: can alert me to from doing some tests, for a start,
[20:32] Speaker 1: that have some sort of relevance to people who have
[20:38] Speaker 1: passed away with those conditions. In other words, sort of
[20:42] Speaker 1: not not causes, but just relationships, some statistical relationship. Are
[20:49] Speaker 1: there sets of tests that we can go and have
[20:51] Speaker 1: a look at. For example, let's pick on cardiovascular disease?
[20:56] Speaker 1: Healthy run every week, I'm training, I'm not able to wait? Yeah,
[21:01] Speaker 1: but does ever labut put people through tests that and
[21:04] Speaker 1: actually sort of start to indicating them. We just want
[21:06] Speaker 1: to be careful because you're a candidate.
[21:10] Speaker 2: So you kind of just alluded to one of the
[21:13] Speaker 2: other assumptions that I often here. And this is something
[21:16] Speaker 2: that I australiing challenge, which is I'm active and I
[21:21] Speaker 2: exercise and I'm lean and I look good. Therefore I'm healthy.
[21:27] Speaker 1: I'm not at risk.
[21:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, therefore I'm not at risk. Now that is a
[21:32] Speaker 2: broad assumption. But we're dealing with the most valuable asset
[21:36] Speaker 2: you have in your life, which is your health and
[21:37] Speaker 2: your body. So shouldn't we take more of a data
[21:42] Speaker 2: driven approach and get deeper insights. Just a couple of
[21:46] Speaker 2: weeks ago, we had a very young member thirty seven
[21:50] Speaker 2: year old through ever Lab. He's a triathlete. He looks good,
[21:57] Speaker 2: his fitness, you know, his VO two max, his aerobic
[21:59] Speaker 2: performance off the chance, but we analyzed his risk and
[22:05] Speaker 2: then we ended up finding that he was high risk.
[22:08] Speaker 2: He had a advanced cardiac test with us, so we
[22:11] Speaker 2: did a scan to look in his arteries. He actually
[22:14] Speaker 2: had pluck all up and down one of the main
[22:17] Speaker 2: arteries of his heart. He's thirty seven, so okay.
[22:21] Speaker 1: But if he had gone to his GP and not
[22:24] Speaker 1: having a crack at an anyone who is a GP,
[22:27] Speaker 1: I mean I know lots of them, probably the GP,
[22:29] Speaker 1: he wouldn't have said anything. It would look you look
[22:32] Speaker 1: pretty good. I'm not going to I'm not going to
[22:33] Speaker 1: get you to going to get an andro Graham or
[22:35] Speaker 1: one of those sorts of tests because you're outside of
[22:38] Speaker 1: a cohort of people who would ordinarily get that would
[22:44] Speaker 1: be at risk. And because look how fit you are,
[22:46] Speaker 1: and you're only young.
[22:47] Speaker 2: As well, so you can see that's an assumption. Yeah,
[22:50] Speaker 2: just like the assumption we just made about cancer. Say,
[22:53] Speaker 2: oh he isn't cancer. Older person's problem. Well, by and large,
[22:57] Speaker 2: it is right. If you're healthy and you're ex size,
[23:00] Speaker 2: and you look good, and you you know, buy and large,
[23:02] Speaker 2: that's good for you. But everybody is different, and what
[23:07] Speaker 2: we need to do is take a really proactive but
[23:10] Speaker 2: data driven approach. So for all the younger folks out there,
[23:13] Speaker 2: and we have a lot of thirty year old members
[23:15] Speaker 2: at ever, lab our message is very clear, take a
[23:20] Speaker 2: proactive interest in your health information. Because remember, no two persons,
[23:26] Speaker 2: no two people are the same. Everyone's stellt's a different hand, right, ethnicity, genetics, right, environment,
[23:36] Speaker 2: and then like there are internal things like buyer markers, right.
[23:40] Speaker 2: So we want to actually gather all this information to
[23:43] Speaker 2: make to have a clearer picture of who you are,
[23:48] Speaker 2: and then you want to make decisions based on that.
[23:49] Speaker 2: So I think that's one message for young folks, which
[23:52] Speaker 2: is it's never too early to take an interest in
[23:54] Speaker 2: your health and get a health check. And when I
[23:56] Speaker 2: say health check, I mean gather up some proper useful
[24:00] Speaker 2: data from which we can gain insights. We had someone
[24:04] Speaker 2: in their late twenties who had sky high cholesterol and
[24:08] Speaker 2: really high cardiovascular risk, and we picked it up early
[24:12] Speaker 2: so that we can actually make changes before permanent processes
[24:17] Speaker 2: take place, like laying down plaque inside your arteries.
[24:20] Speaker 1: That's mad. So like it's interesting because some even because
[24:24] Speaker 1: you know in the defense of the doctor whom I
[24:27] Speaker 1: may have said those sort of things to me in
[24:28] Speaker 1: the past. He might have been thinking, well, she might
[24:33] Speaker 1: have been thinking, well, whilst Mark is thirty five to
[24:38] Speaker 1: forty years of ages in their category and the occurrence
[24:43] Speaker 1: of something outside of a healthy person is like one
[24:46] Speaker 1: in ten thousand. Argument sake, what us as patients haven't done.
[24:51] Speaker 1: We haven't gone, we haven't said back to the doctor boog.
[24:54] Speaker 1: I just don't want to make sure I'm not that
[24:55] Speaker 1: number one because I'm not really interested in the statistics.
[24:59] Speaker 1: It is interesting, curious, but if I'm the one out
[25:02] Speaker 1: of the ten thousand, then that's one hundred percent risk
[25:05] Speaker 1: to me. Because the gravity of n occurring is one
[25:08] Speaker 1: hundred out of one hundred. It doesn't matter if it's
[25:11] Speaker 1: the probability statistically is one out of one hundred. The
[25:15] Speaker 1: gravity is one hundred out of hundred. So if you
[25:18] Speaker 1: want to measure risk, it's probability of the end occurring
[25:21] Speaker 1: multiplied by the gravity.
[25:21] Speaker 2: Of the gravity multiply the magnitude.
[25:23] Speaker 1: Yeah, correct, How I don't want to be the dude
[25:25] Speaker 1: who's that one out of ten thousand who rolls over.
[25:29] Speaker 1: So maybe when you say take an interest would you
[25:34] Speaker 1: be prepared to make it to make be a bit
[25:36] Speaker 1: stronger about that and take it one step further and
[25:38] Speaker 1: say we should take control of our data.
[25:43] Speaker 2: I think is that one of the philosophies that we
[25:45] Speaker 2: have that I have which I've put into Evlab, that
[25:49] Speaker 2: philosophy is you own your own health data, which is
[25:55] Speaker 2: one of the problems that we solve at Velope. We
[25:56] Speaker 2: actually collect with your permission. You're assigned a doctor and
[26:02] Speaker 2: the two of you together, you don't have to do anything,
[26:04] Speaker 2: but like, we actually collect up all of your historical
[26:07] Speaker 2: records out there at all the labs, at all the
[26:10] Speaker 2: GPS and or the radiology centers, and we also collect
[26:14] Speaker 2: information from you and we put it all together in
[26:16] Speaker 2: one platform with great visibility for you. And that's because
[26:21] Speaker 2: it's your health data. So I like and it to
[26:24] Speaker 2: you know, if you put your money in the bank
[26:27] Speaker 2: and you know you have an account there, but the
[26:29] Speaker 2: bank doesn't really tell you how much what your balance is,
[26:32] Speaker 2: and you have to go there to the branch to
[26:34] Speaker 2: ask and they'll give you a little bit of information.
[26:37] Speaker 2: I think that that's what's happening. And I think your
[26:40] Speaker 2: health information is also most valuable to you so that
[26:45] Speaker 2: we can make better decisions. So if we backtrack a
[26:48] Speaker 2: little bit to the concept that you just described, you're
[26:51] Speaker 2: absolutely right. Sometimes culturally we make decisions and these are
[26:54] Speaker 2: I think historic cultural processes and practices, which is we
[27:00] Speaker 2: do use a lot of epidemiology. Data is really important.
[27:04] Speaker 1: Just like I do we just explain what epidemiology means.
[27:06] Speaker 2: This as opposed to epidemiology is the study of the
[27:11] Speaker 2: how much a disease is, how much of a particular
[27:15] Speaker 2: disease there is in a particular community or a population
[27:19] Speaker 2: or a population. That's right, So I just told you
[27:25] Speaker 2: about a bunch of stats about cancer, right, that doesn't
[27:29] Speaker 2: mean what happened to you. Yours could be lower, Yours
[27:33] Speaker 2: could be higher, and we can only work that out
[27:36] Speaker 2: by looking at your data. So we have to move
[27:38] Speaker 2: away from a broad stroke. It's important to appreciate this
[27:42] Speaker 2: data because it tells us what's happening in the population,
[27:45] Speaker 2: in the community, in the world. Just like that's how
[27:47] Speaker 2: I know bow cancers on the rise. I wouldn't be
[27:49] Speaker 2: able to know that just by looking at one percent
[27:51] Speaker 2: at a time. But when it comes to delivering health
[27:55] Speaker 2: span and longevity and making sure we catch the things
[27:59] Speaker 2: that will block you from success. There, we have to
[28:02] Speaker 2: look at you as an individual person, using your health
[28:05] Speaker 2: data and say, here are the risks. Are you at
[28:09] Speaker 2: a high risk? Are your lower risk? What are the risks?
[28:11] Speaker 2: What can we do? And we need to make good
[28:12] Speaker 2: decisions based on you alone, and that's what we call
[28:15] Speaker 2: personalized medicine. We shouldn't be making decisions to say, because
[28:20] Speaker 2: this condition is very unlikely broadly given a number only
[28:25] Speaker 2: one in one thousand or one in ten thousand and
[28:27] Speaker 2: one in thirty thousand, well if it happens to you,
[28:31] Speaker 2: it happens to you, correct, right, And we need to
[28:35] Speaker 2: actually factor both of those things in because personalized medicine
[28:40] Speaker 2: at ev Lab is also we need to help you
[28:43] Speaker 2: prioritize what is the biggest return on investment You should
[28:47] Speaker 2: focus on Should you get this test or should you
[28:50] Speaker 2: get this test? Should you do intimate and fasting? Or
[28:55] Speaker 2: should you go on a vegan diet or should you
[28:57] Speaker 2: go on a Mediterranean diet? These are all just pools,
[29:00] Speaker 2: and I think often people shoot from the hip, right,
[29:03] Speaker 2: They're like someone else is doing that, I'll give that
[29:05] Speaker 2: a crack. Or we practice, like I said, broad stroke medicine,
[29:08] Speaker 2: and you know I'm a GP myself. You know, I'm
[29:11] Speaker 2: a specialist GP. I did my fellowship through the Royal
[29:15] Speaker 2: Australian College. I'm a medical educated there. We have a
[29:19] Speaker 2: fantastic program, we have a fantastic care system. But gps
[29:23] Speaker 2: are also really really busy looking after people who have
[29:30] Speaker 2: existing problems. Yeah, so it's hard to then invest that
[29:36] Speaker 2: time because it is quite time and you know, it
[29:41] Speaker 2: is quite demanding.
[29:42] Speaker 1: Also, I think I also asteem like it's we only
[29:44] Speaker 1: go to the doctor when we've got something wrong with us.
[29:47] Speaker 1: We generally, generally speaking, don't get a doctor to go
[29:49] Speaker 1: and have a chat. I mean, we don't have this
[29:51] Speaker 1: opportunity against sit down and somebody just have a talk
[29:53] Speaker 1: about all the things that are sort of circulating around
[29:55] Speaker 1: that could actually cause me harm in the future. Most
[29:58] Speaker 1: who go, I've got so I've got to make an appointment.
[30:01] Speaker 1: I'm going to be there at nine fifteen. My appointment
[30:03] Speaker 1: is at nine to fifteen. I go to see the
[30:05] Speaker 1: doctor and he's got somebody coming at nine thirty another appointment.
[30:08] Speaker 1: You going there, say okay, what's your problem, Mark, what
[30:11] Speaker 1: are your symptoms? Telling him what the symptoms are, and
[30:14] Speaker 1: pretty much a're out there's no more time. And part
[30:16] Speaker 1: of the problem, by the way, in my opinion anyway,
[30:19] Speaker 1: is doctors don't get paid enough. I just think the
[30:20] Speaker 1: whole system everything just doesn't Like I pay my lawyer
[30:26] Speaker 1: thirteen hundred and forty hundred bucks an hour, sometimes two
[30:28] Speaker 1: thousand dollars an hour. The very few gps own that
[30:31] Speaker 1: sort of money, and they're equally qualified. And in fact,
[30:34] Speaker 1: if anything, probably the doctor's much more important to me anyway,
[30:38] Speaker 1: at this stage in my life than the lawyer. Fortunately,
[30:40] Speaker 1: I don't have that much need for lawyers. But I've
[30:43] Speaker 1: never been able to understand the system, the way the
[30:45] Speaker 1: system works, I've never been able to get it. I mean,
[30:48] Speaker 1: when I was a kid, if one of my friends
[30:52] Speaker 1: parent was a doctor, they were wealthy. They were considered
[30:57] Speaker 1: up there. Today that's not the case because doctors, I
[31:02] Speaker 1: don't know, they probably own pretty good money, but like,
[31:04] Speaker 1: relatively speaking, they're not earning a great deal of money
[31:08] Speaker 1: compared to the amount of time and effort they put
[31:10] Speaker 1: into getting the degree, getting qualified. It's six seven years
[31:14] Speaker 1: or whatever the case may be, then they keep off
[31:16] Speaker 1: an ear really young, and I think the system's a
[31:18] Speaker 1: bit stuffed, to be frank with you. And that's why,
[31:22] Speaker 1: I mean, that's why everlad fascinates me. But they're a
[31:26] Speaker 1: bit stuffed and therefore, as a result of that, you
[31:28] Speaker 1: only get what you're prepared to pay for. And you're
[31:31] Speaker 1: prepared to pay one hundred and twenty five dollars for
[31:33] Speaker 1: the visit medicaan all that sort of stuff. And well,
[31:36] Speaker 1: if the doctors an't gone, he's not going to sit
[31:38] Speaker 1: there with you for forty five minutes talking about stuff
[31:41] Speaker 1: like I'm talking to you about, and he's not going
[31:43] Speaker 1: to go off. And perhaps and perhaps he doesn't even hear.
[31:46] Speaker 1: She doesn't even have time to do the reading that
[31:50] Speaker 1: some the people that you know, working behind the scenes
[31:52] Speaker 1: that developed have to do as well. And all the
[31:55] Speaker 1: study they have to do, the extra work they can do,
[31:57] Speaker 1: the extra research they can they can put together to
[31:59] Speaker 1: find out what the latest tests are for. Like say,
[32:02] Speaker 1: someone like me, So I think our system and I'm
[32:04] Speaker 1: not having a crack a governor. I just think the
[32:05] Speaker 1: system is broken. Maybe it's an old system. It needs
[32:08] Speaker 1: to be modernized, my gut feeling is and it needs
[32:10] Speaker 1: to get with it. The new world, their new whoop
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[33:02] Speaker 1: a while, you'll know I'm all about staying sharp physically
[33:06] Speaker 1: and mentally as I get older. Staying on top of
[33:08] Speaker 1: my game means being smarter with how I support my
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[33:35] Speaker 1: And by the way, I need all those, whether I'm
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[33:47] Speaker 1: Head to bulk Nutrients dot com dot au and see
[33:50] Speaker 1: why and Extend might be the edge you've just been
[33:53] Speaker 1: looking for. So just on evlabs. So let's say, so,
[33:58] Speaker 1: do you start off with a so I tried. I
[34:03] Speaker 1: went to the US last year and I went and
[34:06] Speaker 1: did a pre nuvo the pre so I got talked
[34:11] Speaker 1: into it. I went and did it, and I was
[34:12] Speaker 1: fortunate enough someone couldook me into that. I couldn't believe
[34:15] Speaker 1: how expensive it was, but five grand Aussie it was
[34:19] Speaker 1: at the time. Now pre nuvo you will know more
[34:24] Speaker 1: about it than I do. In fact, I thought it was.
[34:25] Speaker 1: I think it was invented by an Ausy guy. Originally
[34:27] Speaker 1: was but he couldn't get off the ground here. But
[34:30] Speaker 1: it was like mental in America like to get in
[34:32] Speaker 1: it's really difficult, like they're so busy. It's basically an
[34:36] Speaker 1: AMRI scan of your whole body, which takes it, doesn't
[34:40] Speaker 1: They very long? About hour and a quarter. It took me, Yeah,
[34:44] Speaker 1: but relative to if you were to get an Amuri ahead.
[34:47] Speaker 2: Then multi region, yeah yeah.
[34:51] Speaker 1: Because that would take hours, many many hours. And therefore
[34:56] Speaker 1: it wasn't too stressful because I don't like getting locked
[34:58] Speaker 1: in that horrible MRI machine. But anyway, I got locked
[35:02] Speaker 1: in there and they did, and they gave me a
[35:04] Speaker 1: report on they're looking for masses a mass, any mass
[35:09] Speaker 1: in my body.
[35:10] Speaker 2: And solid solid mass plaques.
[35:13] Speaker 1: In my like in my brain like a I don't
[35:16] Speaker 1: know if that's the word for it, but like they
[35:18] Speaker 1: can look for aneurysms, accumulations of things, and also perhaps
[35:22] Speaker 1: looking for things that could be cancerous, et cetera. And
[35:26] Speaker 1: then they give a report on every category. You know,
[35:29] Speaker 1: they go through the liver, brain, et cetera, et cetera, prostate,
[35:33] Speaker 1: They talk, looked at size and those sorts of things.
[35:35] Speaker 1: They give you relativities and then off the back of
[35:37] Speaker 1: that you can take it to your doctor, which I did.
[35:38] Speaker 1: I took it to I actually took a mind to
[35:40] Speaker 1: actual specialists in every category just to find out, you know,
[35:45] Speaker 1: what they thought of it. But it doesn't exist here
[35:47] Speaker 1: in Australia. Does Everlab do something like that? Is that
[35:50] Speaker 1: your starting point?
[35:51] Speaker 2: That's not our starting point. Just a bit of context.
[35:55] Speaker 2: I actually launched a whole body MRI service have one
[36:00] Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two. This was before everlab. Wow, I
[36:03] Speaker 2: launch a hold what MRI service in twenty twenty two,
[36:05] Speaker 2: So I'm quite intimately familiar with with the evidence and
[36:09] Speaker 2: the process. And look, it is commercially becoming more and
[36:13] Speaker 2: more popular. Hearing a straighted out So we offer a
[36:18] Speaker 2: whole body in my screening?
[36:19] Speaker 1: Does that now?
[36:20] Speaker 2: I did that in twenty twenty two. But one thing
[36:22] Speaker 2: that I did not really like about offering that service
[36:26] Speaker 2: is number one. But by the way, the scans are fantastic, right,
[36:30] Speaker 2: So this is technical in terms of technology, in terms
[36:33] Speaker 2: of technology, so the image quality that we can get
[36:36] Speaker 2: is is really phenomenal. You can look inside your own
[36:40] Speaker 2: body and at Everlab when you know, when we offer
[36:43] Speaker 2: a whole body screening program, we walk through all of
[36:46] Speaker 2: your images. You know you do that with your doctor.
[36:49] Speaker 2: You can see inside your body more clearly than if
[36:52] Speaker 2: we cut your open. You have to look right, so
[36:54] Speaker 2: we can actually see inside your organs and look at
[36:56] Speaker 2: the cross sections. So the technology is fantastic, but fundamentally,
[37:02] Speaker 2: as a clinician, fundamentally it is a tool. It is
[37:07] Speaker 2: a tool in our arsenal for a particular goal.
[37:10] Speaker 1: So the goal for.
[37:12] Speaker 2: Us remains how do we deliver for mark longevity, health
[37:17] Speaker 2: span and better health? Right, And this is a tool
[37:22] Speaker 2: because for a lot of people, like we said cancer,
[37:25] Speaker 2: cancer's biggest weakness is early detection. So of course we
[37:28] Speaker 2: have fantastic screening programs and some are better than others.
[37:31] Speaker 2: And when you come through envelop we try to understand
[37:34] Speaker 2: you first and understand your risk and then give you
[37:36] Speaker 2: a prioritize list of what you should do first. Tools tools, yep, Right,
[37:42] Speaker 2: whether if it's a colonoscopy or a CT scan or
[37:45] Speaker 2: a whole body MRI, or for some folks it could
[37:48] Speaker 2: be a mammography or a cervical screening test, or a
[37:52] Speaker 2: prostate blood test or other trimmer markers. We should understand
[37:55] Speaker 2: your risk and then use our tools accordingly, because the
[37:58] Speaker 2: tools only as good as your outcomes.
[38:01] Speaker 1: So in terms of understanding the risk, Steve, so, do
[38:06] Speaker 1: you mean it's an interrogation, not interrogation, but a discussion
[38:09] Speaker 1: about your family history, your lifestyle.
[38:15] Speaker 2: Previous arms and genetics as well, so early in life,
[38:20] Speaker 2: carcinogenic exposures, so things that cause cancer you might have
[38:24] Speaker 2: been exposed through in the past. So what sort of
[38:27] Speaker 2: materials you worked with Historical things like a cigarette smoke exposure.
[38:33] Speaker 2: You don't have to smoke, all you have to do
[38:36] Speaker 2: is grow up in a smoke filled environment.
[38:38] Speaker 1: I know, I had a mate of mine who died
[38:39] Speaker 1: from the throw cancer and he never spoke to see
[38:43] Speaker 1: it in his life. But your own hotels in the days,
[38:47] Speaker 1: in the days when you could smoke in the pub.
[38:49] Speaker 2: So we need to take a really deep interest in
[38:52] Speaker 2: like what you're exposed to and think of it that way.
[38:55] Speaker 2: But these tools I think are fantastic. So when folks
[38:59] Speaker 2: come through EVERL you know, not everyone gets a Hobart MRI.
[39:04] Speaker 2: You actually go through a personalized health assessment. We understand
[39:07] Speaker 2: you and then say, all right, what is our goal.
[39:10] Speaker 2: Our goal is to live to one hundred and when
[39:12] Speaker 2: I'm ninety nine years old, I still want to be hiking. Okay,
[39:16] Speaker 2: like great function, great health span, and then longevity. And
[39:21] Speaker 2: then when you work backwards and say a right, that's
[39:23] Speaker 2: our goal very clear. What's going to block us from
[39:25] Speaker 2: that success.
[39:28] Speaker 1: Would you ask me, Stephen, how did my mother die
[39:30] Speaker 1: and my father died?
[39:33] Speaker 2: Not even not just that maternal paternal uncle's second degree relatives?
[39:38] Speaker 2: What is your ethnic ancestry. We also use genetic testing
[39:42] Speaker 2: to profile your risk because some folks carry genes that
[39:45] Speaker 2: we've studied that if you carry this particular gene, you're
[39:48] Speaker 2: at a increased risk of certain cancers. The best example
[39:51] Speaker 2: here is the Bracker one and two gene for females.
[39:54] Speaker 2: By the way, you can also be male. You can
[39:56] Speaker 2: male male can also have breast cancer. You can carry
[40:00] Speaker 2: these genes which will allow us to profile your risk
[40:03] Speaker 2: significantly better. And then we can create an action plan
[40:08] Speaker 2: because some women can get a If you're low risk,
[40:11] Speaker 2: you can get a mammogram every two years, but if
[40:15] Speaker 2: you're high risk, you should probably get an MRI every
[40:18] Speaker 2: twelve months.
[40:19] Speaker 1: Right, so we.
[40:20] Speaker 2: Should cater the tools. The tools go into a strategy.
[40:24] Speaker 2: The strategy answers answers your risk in.
[40:27] Speaker 1: Formulate a strategy. Let's just sort of double down on
[40:33] Speaker 1: the genetic questions. Do you put them through? Do you
[40:37] Speaker 1: get is it a blood test? To work out the genetic.
[40:40] Speaker 2: Tests, you can do a swab test or you can
[40:42] Speaker 2: swab the inside of your mouth, yep, and do a
[40:44] Speaker 2: genetic test.
[40:45] Speaker 1: So like if I walked in there and I said
[40:47] Speaker 1: to you, my mother died from a urine disease, which
[40:49] Speaker 1: you did. My father died from cancer, which he did,
[40:53] Speaker 1: and his family were all mostly died from stomach cancer,
[40:56] Speaker 1: a bowel cancer. He's got six brothers, they all did,
[41:00] Speaker 1: one still alive. So I should say, but he has
[41:02] Speaker 1: got stomach he has stomach cancer. What would you say, Mark,
[41:06] Speaker 1: And we're going to do a swabby inside your mouth,
[41:08] Speaker 1: and we're.
[41:09] Speaker 2: Going to do a lot of things blood test or yeah.
[41:11] Speaker 2: So that's one of the things that we would do.
[41:13] Speaker 2: But we actually need to do a lot of things.
[41:15] Speaker 2: So for instance, to you as an example, I would
[41:18] Speaker 2: like to understand, you know, what is the family ethnic ancestry.
[41:21] Speaker 1: I like to know exactly.
[41:22] Speaker 2: I like to know exactly, like what the conditions were.
[41:27] Speaker 2: Not everything's genetic either. It can be familial but not genetic. Right,
[41:32] Speaker 2: So where you're born can put you at risk of
[41:37] Speaker 2: certain things that's got actually very little to do with genetics,
[41:41] Speaker 2: things like allergies. If you're born in particular places in
[41:45] Speaker 2: the world, your race of allergies will be different, and
[41:48] Speaker 2: certain communities harbor certain infections. So there is an infection
[41:52] Speaker 2: called Helicobacter pylori.
[41:54] Speaker 1: Infection because for stomach cancer.
[41:56] Speaker 2: For stomach also, but that increases your risk of stomach cancer.
[42:00] Speaker 2: So in so I'm East Asian, right, So in East
[42:05] Speaker 2: Asian populations and you can even go down to which
[42:07] Speaker 2: region the rates of summer cancer are way higher than
[42:13] Speaker 2: folks in Australia.
[42:14] Speaker 1: Oh wow, way higher.
[42:15] Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a genetic factor, but h pylori Hell, look
[42:19] Speaker 2: go back to Pylori infection rates are also much higher.
[42:23] Speaker 2: So then as a population, a lot of their health
[42:27] Speaker 2: services have a screening program which is like we don't
[42:29] Speaker 2: actually screen for that in Australia, but for someone like you,
[42:33] Speaker 2: we need to personalize that to say I've got a
[42:35] Speaker 2: family history, I need to really double click into my
[42:39] Speaker 2: gastro intestinal health esophagus stomach boo.
[42:41] Speaker 1: So you do an endoscopy intake example, and test it.
[42:45] Speaker 2: And for you, we would say, all right, let's understand
[42:50] Speaker 2: where your risk is. We look come through all that
[42:53] Speaker 2: number two we say like, based on that risk, what
[42:56] Speaker 2: do we know? It sounds like you've got good people
[42:59] Speaker 2: looking after you. So you probably have a lot of data,
[43:00] Speaker 2: but we need to look at all of it. You know,
[43:03] Speaker 2: you can tell me it's all normal, like I need
[43:05] Speaker 2: to see it. Yeah, verification, trust, but verifying. But like
[43:08] Speaker 2: we want to be really really specific here because this
[43:10] Speaker 2: is your health data driven, right, data driven personalize about
[43:15] Speaker 2: how I feel.
[43:16] Speaker 1: It's about data.
[43:17] Speaker 2: It is also about how you feel. But we can't
[43:19] Speaker 2: just think about how you feel because if we just
[43:21] Speaker 2: based on how you feel, you feel well, you never
[43:22] Speaker 2: see the doctor. Like we know that's just you know,
[43:26] Speaker 2: dancing in the reactive care system.
[43:28] Speaker 1: And it could also be there's particularly my generation, we
[43:31] Speaker 1: didn't go to us, we didn't have the doctor. Even
[43:33] Speaker 1: if you feel I'll be right, it's quite cultural. Yeah,
[43:35] Speaker 1: I'll be right, I'll be okay, dumb wings in Mike,
[43:37] Speaker 1: don't you be gay?
[43:38] Speaker 2: That's right, And it's very cultural. So for instance, again
[43:40] Speaker 2: in East Asia, culturally older folks just feel like I
[43:46] Speaker 2: should be respected and I should be waited on. And
[43:51] Speaker 2: what does that cause? Muscle loss? Brittle bones?
[43:57] Speaker 1: Right?
[43:57] Speaker 2: So you know I respect my father in law a lot,
[44:01] Speaker 2: but I'm very careful not to wait on him. I say, no, no, no,
[44:03] Speaker 2: You've got to do some of this stuff. Yourself, like
[44:05] Speaker 2: I want you to do exercise, I want you to
[44:07] Speaker 2: I want you to walk. I'm not going to drive
[44:09] Speaker 2: you anywhere everywhere. Right, you use it or you lose it.
[44:12] Speaker 2: So there is that Sometimes there's that cultural barrier, and
[44:15] Speaker 2: sometimes there's these assumptions to say, like I don't need
[44:17] Speaker 2: to go to the doctor on the f if something
[44:19] Speaker 2: was wrong. So that's the stuff that we actually need
[44:22] Speaker 2: to challenge and we want to deliver that in a
[44:24] Speaker 2: very personalized way, which is which is why it's so
[44:27] Speaker 2: important for you to have your data, because you don't
[44:29] Speaker 2: want to just hear about stats. What will engage you
[44:33] Speaker 2: is actually if I show you concrete information about you, Mark,
[44:37] Speaker 2: here is your ENDOSCO BIT report, Here is your call
[44:40] Speaker 2: and OSCAR report. Here is your genetic test. This is
[44:43] Speaker 2: what we know about you. So this is why you
[44:46] Speaker 2: need a call and ask abe I don't know every
[44:48] Speaker 2: three years, whereas other people needed every five years and
[44:50] Speaker 2: some people need every ten years. That's how we personalize
[44:53] Speaker 2: a plan and have high confidence to say this is
[44:57] Speaker 2: the best way for us to achieve health span and longevity,
[45:01] Speaker 2: but also at the lowest lifetime cost. I think that's
[45:05] Speaker 2: what's really important and to achieve lowest lifetime costs. It's
[45:09] Speaker 2: actually making good decisions because you know, hobot MRI scan
[45:13] Speaker 2: you could have once a week if you like, right,
[45:17] Speaker 2: But is that the biggest return on investment for you
[45:20] Speaker 2: in the goal that we share, which is for you
[45:22] Speaker 2: to achieve that health span and longevity.
[45:25] Speaker 1: And the extra day get out of his probably marginal anyway,
[45:27] Speaker 1: on that basis weekly maybe a good example of this,
[45:30] Speaker 1: and maybe you want to make a comment on it
[45:31] Speaker 1: if you will. Is recently, only this week, I think,
[45:36] Speaker 1: is Joe Biden's been diagnosed with metastatic crostal cancer. And
[45:42] Speaker 1: I did read somewhere that the last time he's in
[45:46] Speaker 1: his eighties, the last time he had a PSA test
[45:50] Speaker 1: done was in his early seventies. Of of course, you
[45:52] Speaker 1: know he's a president of former president of the United
[45:54] Speaker 1: States America. You would have expected and prior that he
[45:56] Speaker 1: was a vice president. I found that very very But
[46:00] Speaker 1: he'd never had that He hadn't had the test since
[46:03] Speaker 1: he was in his seventies, and I find that quite amazing.
[46:07] Speaker 1: But I would say there is a big percentage of
[46:10] Speaker 1: the population in Australia in that in that age group
[46:14] Speaker 1: who just would go to the doctor and say to
[46:16] Speaker 1: the doctor. The doctor say, look, you don't this is
[46:19] Speaker 1: your last prostate PSA test. You don't have to have
[46:23] Speaker 1: any more after this, you're seventy four, seventy five if
[46:25] Speaker 1: you don't anymore.
[46:26] Speaker 2: And there's actually guidelines that say that market.
[46:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, no, one hundred percent. And because I remember they
[46:30] Speaker 1: said to my father and I said to them, if no,
[46:31] Speaker 1: you're going back next to you, You're getting another PSA test.
[46:33] Speaker 1: You're going to keep getting PSA tests until you're not
[46:37] Speaker 1: around anymore. Unfortunately, you know, he left at eighty nine.
[46:41] Speaker 1: And but my father and I think there's a lot
[46:45] Speaker 1: of people that full in this category. There's sort of
[46:46] Speaker 1: people just the doctor said, don't have to get a past.
[46:49] Speaker 1: How good's that? I don't have to give blood anymore?
[46:51] Speaker 1: They're not going to jab me in, pull blood out
[46:53] Speaker 1: once a year and test it. And to some extent,
[46:58] Speaker 1: we tend to accept what our medical practitioners tell us,
[47:03] Speaker 1: which is what's in their guidelines, which is what they're
[47:06] Speaker 1: being told. But we can say to our medical practition
[47:09] Speaker 1: now I want to I do want to test. Can
[47:11] Speaker 1: we say that? Are we allowed to say that? And
[47:13] Speaker 1: are they allowed to prescribe the test.
[47:14] Speaker 2: Of course you are, and yes they are. And I
[47:17] Speaker 2: think you know a piece of advocacy here is really
[47:20] Speaker 2: get onto the same page as your doctor, because I
[47:26] Speaker 2: think one day it will be the case that most
[47:29] Speaker 2: doctors practice the way ever lab does today. We really
[47:33] Speaker 2: need to be outcome focused because I can tell you
[47:35] Speaker 2: exactly why the guidelines suggest these things.
[47:38] Speaker 1: Is it because it takes ten years ago, procest gans
[47:41] Speaker 1: or something?
[47:41] Speaker 2: Basically it's probably it's basically a health economics decision. Yeah,
[47:46] Speaker 2: we're making an assumption to say, ah, you know, you've
[47:53] Speaker 2: had a pretty good life, right, but that's not for
[47:57] Speaker 2: us to say. That's not for me to say. That's
[47:59] Speaker 2: in fact, it's not for the government to say.
[48:01] Speaker 1: It's not for the system to tell us about.
[48:02] Speaker 2: It shouldn't be for the system to tell us. But this,
[48:05] Speaker 2: this is this is part of how the system works,
[48:07] Speaker 2: and this is part of how the system should should improve.
[48:10] Speaker 2: There are other clinical reasons as well. So I'll give
[48:15] Speaker 2: you an example that we have a national back cancer screening
[48:18] Speaker 2: program in Australia.
[48:20] Speaker 1: This is one where they send you the test and
[48:21] Speaker 1: the kit for two years. It's just your fecies.
[48:25] Speaker 2: That's right. You put the mat in the toilet, you
[48:27] Speaker 2: do a pooh on it. You've got that little sticky program.
[48:29] Speaker 2: It's not too bad. It's actually a very very good test.
[48:30] Speaker 2: And you know what, that test saves lives. That test
[48:34] Speaker 2: ends age seventy nine.
[48:38] Speaker 1: You don't get it anymore.
[48:39] Speaker 2: You don't get it anymore, right, because I think part
[48:42] Speaker 2: of the part of the reason is going to because
[48:44] Speaker 2: it's a health economics decision.
[48:46] Speaker 1: Right.
[48:47] Speaker 2: The other reason is actually once you reach an older age,
[48:52] Speaker 2: so seventy plus, you're more likely to have false positives
[48:57] Speaker 2: oh wow, which makes it trickier, which makes the effectiveness
[49:01] Speaker 2: of the screening program.
[49:02] Speaker 1: Reduced, and it also puts a burden on the hell
[49:03] Speaker 1: system to.
[49:04] Speaker 2: And it puts a burn on cost cost. Right, But
[49:08] Speaker 2: we should be outcomes focus, We shouldn't be too much
[49:11] Speaker 2: cost focus, and there's all that. But these are difficult decisions. Yeah,
[49:15] Speaker 2: I think we have good people making decisions. These are
[49:17] Speaker 2: very difficult decisions.
[49:20] Speaker 1: Interesting maybe complex.
[49:21] Speaker 2: Complex is a bit of word complex.
[49:23] Speaker 1: Because they can make the decisions if they want to,
[49:26] Speaker 1: but there's complexities put in the way of those people
[49:28] Speaker 1: making those decisions. There's complexities cost you know, uptake, you
[49:34] Speaker 1: take people using it as a waste of money. Should
[49:37] Speaker 1: we put all the effort into maybe younger people, like
[49:40] Speaker 1: a younger part of the co ordin, et cetera.
[49:42] Speaker 2: So it's complex, by the way, you know, because of
[49:45] Speaker 2: the stats that I told you, like global rise and
[49:47] Speaker 2: bow cancer. The Ball cancer screening program used to start
[49:51] Speaker 2: a fifty they've just changed that to say, actually, we'll
[49:54] Speaker 2: take folks from forty.
[49:56] Speaker 1: Five, right, So they now they're handing out more of them.
[49:58] Speaker 2: They're handing out more of them because there's more risk
[50:01] Speaker 2: for younger people. At ever lab our, you know, so
[50:05] Speaker 2: our clinical counsel and me we sort of look at
[50:07] Speaker 2: the evidence and we decide so at ever lab our
[50:09] Speaker 2: recommendation is if you've never had a colonoscopy at age
[50:13] Speaker 2: forty five.
[50:14] Speaker 1: That is that is where you go to gastronologist and
[50:16] Speaker 1: they put you under and they look up your behind.
[50:19] Speaker 2: Right and drink cold stuff. You have to drink this stuff.
[50:23] Speaker 2: You clear your colon. You go there, you get a
[50:25] Speaker 2: you get an anesthetic and they basically put a telescope
[50:29] Speaker 2: you want to check it out and they have.
[50:30] Speaker 1: A look make sure there's not going to pull ups
[50:32] Speaker 1: or whatever. That's right, worse worse than.
[50:34] Speaker 2: That, so you know, there's different recommend.
[50:38] Speaker 1: If you haven't had that at age forty or forty
[50:41] Speaker 1: five our recommendation. What would you say to someone if
[50:44] Speaker 1: they haven't had that then? But do you how do
[50:46] Speaker 1: you deal with someone who is only forty two, for example,
[50:49] Speaker 1: and it hasn't had one, but has the family history
[50:51] Speaker 1: of it.
[50:52] Speaker 2: We have to factor these things in because it should
[50:54] Speaker 2: be a risk based decision. It shouldn't just be a
[50:56] Speaker 2: guideline based decision. The guidelines it's literally in the name.
[51:00] Speaker 2: It's just a guide. It's not it's not the law.
[51:03] Speaker 2: It's not the law. So we have to we have
[51:06] Speaker 2: to adjust.
[51:07] Speaker 1: Do you use AI or anything any algorithm to sort
[51:10] Speaker 1: of build out a larger probability base? Do you do
[51:13] Speaker 1: you sort of say, here's all the probability factors. Ah, yeah,
[51:20] Speaker 1: it's called probability factors of the occurring here. They all are,
[51:24] Speaker 1: and we put more weight on this, less weight on that.
[51:27] Speaker 1: Do you put weightings on things? We do?
[51:30] Speaker 2: We do? So we do that at an individual level.
[51:33] Speaker 2: That's what I mean by personalized health. Right, So we
[51:36] Speaker 2: need to understand what is your biggest return on investment action? Right?
[51:44] Speaker 2: So some folks will come to me much like you
[51:46] Speaker 2: have and with your maneuver, and you said, hey, I
[51:49] Speaker 2: read about this, I saw it on Instagram and I
[51:51] Speaker 2: want a whole body MRI. Sure, right, but come through
[51:56] Speaker 2: our program and let's understand you first, because maybe turns
[52:00] Speaker 2: out your risk of our cancer is much higher than
[52:03] Speaker 2: your risk of other side of law solid or contrumers.
[52:05] Speaker 2: And a cholonoscopy is a superior method of screening than
[52:11] Speaker 2: a hoop of m right, so we would guide you
[52:13] Speaker 2: to award as that. Now, if you said I want
[52:15] Speaker 2: to both, sure, but it should be clear that you
[52:17] Speaker 2: know it's our job to advise, to say what is
[52:21] Speaker 2: It's our job to advise and do the care navigation,
[52:23] Speaker 2: so we can do the referrals and things like that.
[52:24] Speaker 2: But you should also understand when when one of our
[52:29] Speaker 2: members leaves one of our consults, I want them to
[52:31] Speaker 2: know about the health as deeply as I as I can.
[52:35] Speaker 2: And I think that's what's really useful. You should have
[52:38] Speaker 2: confidence what that's new.
[52:41] Speaker 1: That that the patient understands, not not in a technical sense,
[52:45] Speaker 1: but understands the risks as much as the practitioner does.
[52:50] Speaker 1: Because usually I know, not move so much, but a
[52:53] Speaker 1: lot of people walk out of the doctors. They are say,
[52:56] Speaker 1: the partner says, I'm okay.
[53:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's yesterday's way of practicing medicine. It
[53:02] Speaker 2: still exists, Yeah, it does, it does. But I'm also
[53:06] Speaker 2: seeing a cultural change too. So a lot of my
[53:08] Speaker 2: older patients they're used to it. I always like to
[53:11] Speaker 2: explain things to them. I say, this is what i'm thinking,
[53:14] Speaker 2: this is what I think based on this data, and
[53:17] Speaker 2: here are options. I think this is a good octrine.
[53:19] Speaker 2: They go, doctor, just tell me what to do, right.
[53:22] Speaker 2: But younger folks take more of an active interest. I
[53:25] Speaker 2: think they're more health literate. You know, they're accessing more
[53:29] Speaker 2: health information, and health information is everywhere now. In fact,
[53:33] Speaker 2: there's probably too much health information. You need to tease
[53:35] Speaker 2: out the you know, signals from all the noise just
[53:38] Speaker 2: going to coil and yeah. Yeah, so but I think
[53:42] Speaker 2: there is there is a shift towards that. But you
[53:44] Speaker 2: should know about your health as deeply as possible, because
[53:49] Speaker 2: it is your health is you know, your your health
[53:52] Speaker 2: is your biggest asset. I'm an advisor, right, So if
[53:55] Speaker 2: you think of a management consultant for a business, what
[53:58] Speaker 2: do they do? They take all your they look at everything,
[54:01] Speaker 2: they spend a lot of time on it. They think
[54:02] Speaker 2: about it, they analyze it, They write your report and say,
[54:05] Speaker 2: here are the areas that's unique to your business that
[54:09] Speaker 2: might need work. We should take that type of approach
[54:12] Speaker 2: with healthcare.
[54:14] Speaker 1: Can I just ask you a question about I had
[54:18] Speaker 1: Matthew Kennan in here from Newer. He's a CEO at Newer,
[54:21] Speaker 1: which is a neurological organization here in New Southwest. You're Victorian,
[54:26] Speaker 1: aren't you. So it's at the University of Southwest, a
[54:29] Speaker 1: joint interne between the University of South Wales and the
[54:32] Speaker 1: Prince of Wales's Hospital. And it's a very big neurology department,
[54:37] Speaker 1: but full of neuroscientists as well. And I went to
[54:40] Speaker 1: Matthew because he trewed my mother when she had a
[54:42] Speaker 1: neuro disease. And here in those days he was at
[54:44] Speaker 1: the brain mindset, but not these days. And I went
[54:46] Speaker 1: saw in with my report from preneuva relative to what
[54:50] Speaker 1: my brain was, what they found in relation to my
[54:53] Speaker 1: brain They found nothing, but they showed little bits of plarque.
[54:57] Speaker 1: I think it was clark, but something like that. And
[54:59] Speaker 1: I want to what it meant. And so and.
[55:02] Speaker 2: He said to me, well, let's get a blood test.
[55:06] Speaker 1: And and and he said, I'm going to look for
[55:09] Speaker 1: something various things, he said, because what's good for your
[55:11] Speaker 1: heart is good for your brain, and particularly in my
[55:15] Speaker 1: family's case, because one of Michaels got vascular dementia cause
[55:19] Speaker 1: by smoking and drinking or not drinking, smoking and lifestyle
[55:22] Speaker 1: of stuff. But in any event, in the blood test
[55:28] Speaker 1: that came out, he came out normally, when we get
[55:30] Speaker 1: a blood test, we get you know, ld L and
[55:32] Speaker 1: HDL cholesterol and an overall cholesterol number as well, which
[55:35] Speaker 1: all looks. It's interesting. And then but today there's now
[55:39] Speaker 1: tests around things called lipop protein be a little a
[55:45] Speaker 1: And interestingly enough, what came out of this was E
[55:47] Speaker 1: three E four.
[55:49] Speaker 2: I see okay for me?
[55:51] Speaker 1: And and I'd never heard of this before, and I
[55:54] Speaker 1: asked him about it, and he said to me, well,
[55:57] Speaker 1: they are They are markers that have a relationship statistical
[56:02] Speaker 1: relationship that in forty percent of dementia cases, those alleles,
[56:10] Speaker 1: those two alleles present yep. And of course I I
[56:15] Speaker 1: nearly crump my pants because I thought.
[56:18] Speaker 2: WHOA, it's not not not pleasant.
[56:20] Speaker 1: I don't want to know about that. But then when
[56:22] Speaker 1: I said, but it doesn't mean but it doesn't mean
[56:24] Speaker 1: in every case because there's just something that's present.
[56:27] Speaker 2: It's a risk, it's a risk predictor. Yeah, so you're
[56:30] Speaker 2: talking about that a po E gene and.
[56:34] Speaker 1: I think it was three and four is that right?
[56:36] Speaker 2: There's two three four, so it's called epsilon, is the name,
[56:39] Speaker 2: so EAT that's for epsilon E two three four. And
[56:42] Speaker 2: you have two pairs, so you can have E two
[56:45] Speaker 2: E two. I've got you two, you two. Not to brag,
[56:47] Speaker 2: but like you know, you two, you two are there
[56:48] Speaker 2: are other evolution they are They're good, right, Two and
[56:52] Speaker 2: three are usually okay. Four is associated with an increased
[56:56] Speaker 2: risk of Alzheim's disease. So if you have two copies
[57:00] Speaker 2: of E four, you have a six to twelve fold
[57:04] Speaker 2: increased risk of ouzhemers of developing Alzheimer's disease after the
[57:09] Speaker 2: age of sixty. So they call it. They call it
[57:11] Speaker 2: a late onset Alzheimer's disease or ledy load. I mean,
[57:15] Speaker 2: I don't think sixty is very old, but they call
[57:17] Speaker 2: it late onset. So it's an increased risk. Now, the
[57:20] Speaker 2: tricky thing here is like that's and if you carry
[57:23] Speaker 2: one copy, which sounds like you do. It's a much
[57:26] Speaker 2: lower increased risk. It's still increased risk, but it's about
[57:29] Speaker 2: two to three times the general population of compared to
[57:32] Speaker 2: someone who who does not have E four gene. So
[57:36] Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that you're more likely to that doesn't
[57:40] Speaker 2: mean that you will definitely get it, but that is
[57:43] Speaker 2: a piece of insight that will make us say, hey, look,
[57:46] Speaker 2: do we need to prioritize neuro protective activities for you
[57:51] Speaker 2: even more than we otherwise would.
[57:53] Speaker 1: And that's where those tests are really important. And I
[57:55] Speaker 1: think that's what your fleb's doing. I presume that's the
[57:58] Speaker 1: sort of stuff, the sort of the territory you go
[58:01] Speaker 1: because it informed me as something that I had no
[58:04] Speaker 1: idea of. Then I did start You're right, I started
[58:08] Speaker 1: to think about things like, well, what activity is a
[58:10] Speaker 1: neuroprotective and then I started asking these sort of questions.
[58:13] Speaker 1: But I think we're just.
[58:14] Speaker 2: A choice of sports. Yeah, you say, hey, I like
[58:17] Speaker 2: playing this, but I also like playing this. Insights like
[58:19] Speaker 2: this help you guide helps guide decision making so you
[58:23] Speaker 2: get bigger return on investments towards the goal that you
[58:27] Speaker 2: want by making smarter decisions.
[58:30] Speaker 1: And not making decisions that might go against you. So
[58:32] Speaker 1: for example, I was a boxer for forty years, and
[58:35] Speaker 1: he said, well, dromanic brain injury is a problem if
[58:39] Speaker 1: you sort of overlap it with these sorts of things,
[58:41] Speaker 1: because just your brains is getting hit all the time.
[58:43] Speaker 1: It's not such a good idea. And I never thought
[58:47] Speaker 1: about these things before in my life, and right down
[58:50] Speaker 1: to the then down to things like we said, well,
[58:52] Speaker 1: what you got to make sure of is that he said,
[58:54] Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing this and not in a medical way or
[58:57] Speaker 1: scientific way in any sense whatsoever, but make sure that
[59:00] Speaker 1: you look after your health generally, you know, physically, like
[59:04] Speaker 1: you don't don't get overweight, you don't you know, you
[59:06] Speaker 1: don't have you do everything to protect your heart, to
[59:09] Speaker 1: make sure there's a lot of blood flow going through
[59:11] Speaker 1: your brain, you know, exercise, high intensity exercise, things like that.
[59:15] Speaker 2: Sleep, it's sleep for inflammations and social connection.
[59:20] Speaker 1: And I never would have thought about these things. And
[59:22] Speaker 1: I think that's because you know, you maybe remember made
[59:25] Speaker 1: me when you're talking about every that now you maybe
[59:26] Speaker 1: recall these things that I've sort of just done in
[59:29] Speaker 1: the peacement way. But as none of these things he's
[59:31] Speaker 1: all sitting in a Manil folder on my desk, and
[59:35] Speaker 1: I was only thinking the other day, wouldn't it be
[59:36] Speaker 1: good if somewhere I could have all that data sitting
[59:41] Speaker 1: on a dashboard, somewhere where I can go and access it.
[59:44] Speaker 1: You know, we're just say that, like because even my doctor,
[59:47] Speaker 1: my GPS, a friend of mine, like, he doesn't have
[59:50] Speaker 1: all this stuff. He has bits and pieces and report
[59:53] Speaker 1: from last month.
[59:54] Speaker 2: I know every single software that Dorop is using this country.
[59:57] Speaker 1: And do you put does do you guys actually run
[1:00:01] Speaker 1: some We've built this, you built this, You've got the dashboards.
[1:00:04] Speaker 2: We've built our own practice software in the back end,
[1:00:06] Speaker 2: which is AI enabled. That's for the doctor. But we
[1:00:10] Speaker 2: also have a mobile app for all our members.
[1:00:12] Speaker 1: Yes, so you can go in there, and so you
[1:00:13] Speaker 1: can go in that.
[1:00:14] Speaker 2: In fact, you can even upload You've got stuff in
[1:00:16] Speaker 2: a Manela voda. I mean yeah, you can scan and
[1:00:18] Speaker 2: upload that.
[1:00:19] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:00:20] Speaker 2: In fact, most of the stuff that if you've had
[1:00:22] Speaker 2: done in Australia, our system can actually gather a lot
[1:00:25] Speaker 2: of that automatically.
[1:00:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, you give it approval, you can give it approval.
[1:00:29] Speaker 2: We bring it, We bring it all in that, you know,
[1:00:33] Speaker 2: because we believe that your data should be owned by you.
[1:00:37] Speaker 2: Your data should work for you. The more completer picture
[1:00:40] Speaker 2: we have of you, the better decisions we can make
[1:00:44] Speaker 2: right and come up with the right roadmap to say, hey, mark, like,
[1:00:48] Speaker 2: based on everything we know about you, you should do
[1:00:50] Speaker 2: this every three months. You should recheck this every six months.
[1:00:53] Speaker 2: You should recheck this every three years. You should build
[1:00:56] Speaker 2: out a roadmap. And the other thing that I find
[1:00:58] Speaker 2: is like folks will have like you've had a lot
[1:01:00] Speaker 2: of experiences, right, so you had a whole body scan.
[1:01:03] Speaker 2: You probably have some small, non specific markings on your brain.
[1:01:06] Speaker 2: You want to ask someone and they gave you pretty
[1:01:07] Speaker 2: general advice to say, hey, look after yourself. They can
[1:01:10] Speaker 2: diet and exercise. They're right, but we need to be
[1:01:14] Speaker 2: much much more specific if you want to maximize your
[1:01:16] Speaker 2: return on investment. All right, what do you mean look
[1:01:19] Speaker 2: after my heart?
[1:01:19] Speaker 1: Like?
[1:01:19] Speaker 2: Be more specific? Do you mean structurally? Do you mean
[1:01:22] Speaker 2: blood pressure? Should I do? Should I do? This? Right?
[1:01:25] Speaker 1: You know you get down to you get down to
[1:01:26] Speaker 1: that level of detail.
[1:01:27] Speaker 2: Absolutely.
[1:01:28] Speaker 1: Just while we're talking all right, now, I'm doing this
[1:01:32] Speaker 1: as an experiment on myself. I've got a friend of
[1:01:36] Speaker 1: mine's cardiologist in Sydney here and he's organized for me.
[1:01:39] Speaker 1: But I'm doing this as an experiment myself. So that's
[1:01:42] Speaker 1: sort of stuff. Do you think people should go to
[1:01:44] Speaker 1: this sort of crazy length to get this sort of
[1:01:46] Speaker 1: level of data on themselves? So what did you show
[1:01:49] Speaker 1: doctor then? Was that I've got a thing called a
[1:01:51] Speaker 1: lady bug or lady beatle or something like that. It
[1:01:53] Speaker 1: actually and I've got another one down here, but it
[1:01:55] Speaker 1: measures your heart and it sends it off to a
[1:01:56] Speaker 1: napp like it goes to my ad but it sends
[1:01:58] Speaker 1: it off to the health to the hospital where I'm
[1:02:02] Speaker 1: going from. And my objective is just to look at
[1:02:05] Speaker 1: my heart over a thirty twenty eight day period, yep,
[1:02:08] Speaker 1: and just see maybe just different I sleep. I mean,
[1:02:11] Speaker 1: these are things happen. I wouldn't have a clue, like
[1:02:13] Speaker 1: what's it like on exercise? We know, what's it like
[1:02:16] Speaker 1: when I'm stressed out at work in the office. You know,
[1:02:18] Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah sort of stuff. And I'm but again,
[1:02:24] Speaker 1: the data it will come back to me will be
[1:02:26] Speaker 1: I'll get it and the guy will say I'm pretty sure.
[1:02:30] Speaker 1: Hopefully he'll say, market You're okay, your heart's good, and
[1:02:33] Speaker 1: I'll put in a file and that's it, and I'll
[1:02:36] Speaker 1: forget about it, like the preneve. I did that like
[1:02:38] Speaker 1: two years ago, and if I forgot about it.
[1:02:40] Speaker 2: Personalized medicine is all about specificity. You cannot get the
[1:02:44] Speaker 2: best outcomes at low costs, at low lifetime costs with
[1:02:48] Speaker 2: our specifiicy. So, for instance, the heart bug, right, I
[1:02:52] Speaker 2: can tell you what it's looking for. It's looking for
[1:02:54] Speaker 2: a particular arrhythme atrial fibrillation.
[1:02:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, when do you explain to me? I nearly die
[1:02:58] Speaker 1: when he said it can cause a stroke. A stroke.
[1:03:00] Speaker 2: It's one of the biggest causes of strokes, and it's
[1:03:02] Speaker 2: one of the biggest causes of strokes in women. Most
[1:03:05] Speaker 2: common dangerous arrhythmia for folks over the age of sixty.
[1:03:10] Speaker 2: And it's dangerous often because it is asymptomatic. Course, there's
[1:03:15] Speaker 2: no symptoms. Said, blockages in your heart have no idea,
[1:03:18] Speaker 2: just like poor metabolic health, just like early stage cancers.
[1:03:21] Speaker 2: They cause no symptoms. So it's very useful to have this.
[1:03:24] Speaker 2: Now here's the return on investment question. Do you need
[1:03:27] Speaker 2: to wear it for twenty eight days?
[1:03:29] Speaker 1: No, Well we do it.
[1:03:30] Speaker 2: We also do like we check for these things. Right,
[1:03:33] Speaker 2: we do a single DCG.
[1:03:36] Speaker 1: And so you do that first, so you get a baseline, Yes,
[1:03:39] Speaker 1: we do. You do the baseline. He did the basign
[1:03:41] Speaker 1: foot first, but you get a base SI one first.
[1:03:43] Speaker 1: So I lay down on a couch, you put all
[1:03:44] Speaker 1: the connections all over me in and have a Then
[1:03:49] Speaker 1: he also got a He also did a ultra. Because
[1:03:55] Speaker 1: it's an interesting question, you said, said about it because
[1:03:58] Speaker 1: they told me twenty eight days, agay, and I that
[1:04:01] Speaker 1: was only only started last week. And I Monday last
[1:04:04] Speaker 1: week and I sent a letter to a text on
[1:04:06] Speaker 1: me to the lady or to the person from everlap
[1:04:09] Speaker 1: not ever from a ladybug whatever is. I said, look,
[1:04:11] Speaker 1: what's the minimum period of data collection you need to
[1:04:16] Speaker 1: have in order to get a fairly accurate read yep,
[1:04:20] Speaker 1: she said, or trinida as I said, yeah, but like
[1:04:23] Speaker 1: what about if it's just say seven days, which is yesterday.
[1:04:26] Speaker 1: I'm going to work for another few more days because
[1:04:28] Speaker 1: I took it off for days so because it was
[1:04:29] Speaker 1: irritating me. And she said, that will depend on your doctor.
[1:04:35] Speaker 2: So here's my question, why not three hundred and sixty
[1:04:37] Speaker 2: five days? Right?
[1:04:39] Speaker 1: Or seven days?
[1:04:39] Speaker 2: So yeah, it's a it's you have to make a calculation.
[1:04:43] Speaker 2: You have to make a calculation based on risk. So
[1:04:45] Speaker 2: if you told me, hey, Mum and dad both had
[1:04:47] Speaker 2: had atual fibrillation and my brother has atul fibrillation, I'm
[1:04:51] Speaker 2: going to be looking at your heart at a higher
[1:04:54] Speaker 2: and more deeper way for general folks. Actually, and this
[1:04:58] Speaker 2: is where technology is like, we never used to have
[1:05:00] Speaker 2: this when I was in medical school. Right. In fact,
[1:05:03] Speaker 2: the latest Apple iPhone is now FDA approved to pick
[1:05:10] Speaker 2: up and monitor actual fibrillation.
[1:05:12] Speaker 1: Wow.
[1:05:13] Speaker 2: And this is where we want to utilize technological advances.
[1:05:18] Speaker 2: But the goal is the same, right, So your you know,
[1:05:21] Speaker 2: the goal for you is not to go through the process.
[1:05:24] Speaker 2: There are no SPA treatments in medicine, diagnostic or treatments.
[1:05:27] Speaker 1: Right.
[1:05:27] Speaker 2: It's always a trade off. It's kind of annoying to
[1:05:29] Speaker 2: have on but the trade off is we know that
[1:05:31] Speaker 2: the benefits, we get that information. Yeah, data, everything is
[1:05:34] Speaker 2: a bit of a trade off, right, So we should
[1:05:37] Speaker 2: be more goal focused. So the goal for you is
[1:05:40] Speaker 2: we don't want you to have a stroke. I don't either, Right,
[1:05:43] Speaker 2: That's the main goal, and then we work backs from there.
[1:05:45] Speaker 2: So what could causes You've had an MRI that shows
[1:05:48] Speaker 2: maybe a few white dots by the way, welcome to
[1:05:51] Speaker 2: show me like we can talk about it. But where
[1:05:54] Speaker 2: do we need to look when you look in your heart,
[1:05:56] Speaker 2: look in your corrodidaies, right, what is your propensan ultrasound
[1:06:02] Speaker 2: of your corona arteries? You know, have a look inside
[1:06:04] Speaker 2: the arteries of your.
[1:06:06] Speaker 1: Heart like a city inigram, like.
[1:06:08] Speaker 2: A CT coronary androgram understand all the biomarkers you mentioned, right,
[1:06:12] Speaker 2: not just your like we look at your historical LDLs
[1:06:16] Speaker 2: hd ls, but we also order the things that you
[1:06:18] Speaker 2: mentioned as well, like LiPo A a pro liproprotein B.
[1:06:21] Speaker 2: So if your LiPo A is above one, so normal
[1:06:26] Speaker 2: cut off is point five. It should be a bit
[1:06:28] Speaker 2: lower for for women because they're now l P little
[1:06:32] Speaker 2: a LP little A. If your LP little A is raised,
[1:06:36] Speaker 2: you have a two to three x risk compared to
[1:06:38] Speaker 2: someone who doesn't wow really of having both a heart
[1:06:41] Speaker 2: attack or we call it, you know, major adverse cuting event,
[1:06:47] Speaker 2: or you could also you're also adding christ risk of
[1:06:50] Speaker 2: valvular disease, which is really interesting. It's a structual valve
[1:06:54] Speaker 2: vowels and the heart. So you have valves in the
[1:06:56] Speaker 2: heart that like open and close and let blood flow.
[1:06:58] Speaker 2: In fact, like when you hear people's heart beats, it's
[1:07:02] Speaker 2: actually the valve snapping shut. That's the sound. Wow, it's
[1:07:06] Speaker 2: the heartbeat. Is actually the pumping, it's not it's valve.
[1:07:11] Speaker 2: It's actually a valve. So you can actually get a
[1:07:13] Speaker 2: dangerous valve valve condition. And this is where you know,
[1:07:18] Speaker 2: data is useful, but we should we should be understanding
[1:07:21] Speaker 2: what the what the data tells us, and that's how
[1:07:24] Speaker 2: we can determine, like what is the value of the data.
[1:07:27] Speaker 2: So we run a lot of bio markers. I designed
[1:07:31] Speaker 2: our program. We run a lot of bio markers. Guess
[1:07:34] Speaker 2: what I could have run another extra one hundred. You know,
[1:07:38] Speaker 2: we do more than one hundred by markers.
[1:07:41] Speaker 1: A thousand or something.
[1:07:42] Speaker 2: Is we have thousands of data points data points. Yeah,
[1:07:45] Speaker 2: so like we can tell you, you know, like do you
[1:07:48] Speaker 2: have more muscle mass on your left leg rather than
[1:07:51] Speaker 2: right leg? And sometimes that's really useful information for folks
[1:07:53] Speaker 2: who have injuries. So we get thousands of data points
[1:07:56] Speaker 2: and a lot of bio markers. I can increase that number,
[1:08:00] Speaker 2: but there's a point where there's diminishing returns. You have
[1:08:03] Speaker 2: to be focused on the outcome, which is what do
[1:08:06] Speaker 2: we want to achieve? And for younger folks, you know,
[1:08:09] Speaker 2: sometimes they're not thinking about longevity. Sometimes they're not thinking
[1:08:13] Speaker 2: about health span because you know, they're busy with life
[1:08:15] Speaker 2: and they're mid mid career and things like that. But
[1:08:18] Speaker 2: health is something that everyone should be thinking about because
[1:08:22] Speaker 2: we live in a sick care system. If you truly
[1:08:25] Speaker 2: want to have a healthcare system, it's individuals. You have
[1:08:28] Speaker 2: to advocate for yourself. Like you said, go to the doctor,
[1:08:30] Speaker 2: what should I say? What should I ask? Stop by
[1:08:33] Speaker 2: thinking about what health is to you. So you know,
[1:08:36] Speaker 2: as I went through my career working in a sick
[1:08:38] Speaker 2: care system, very gratifying work, very important work. We do
[1:08:44] Speaker 2: this really really well in Australia. Australia has world class care.
[1:08:47] Speaker 2: But what we're not doing is actually defining health properly.
[1:08:52] Speaker 2: What is health. Health is not just the absence of disease.
[1:08:56] Speaker 2: So some people think if I'm not sick, then I'm healthy. Wrong.
[1:09:01] Speaker 2: If you're not sick, you're not sick. But if you're healthy,
[1:09:04] Speaker 2: what are the determinants of health? We should actually think
[1:09:07] Speaker 2: about it. I think about it as like three circles
[1:09:10] Speaker 2: in a vent diagram, right, only in one of the
[1:09:12] Speaker 2: circles is the absence of disease, and that's very important.
[1:09:16] Speaker 2: We've spoken about it at length because that's often the
[1:09:18] Speaker 2: biggest blocker to you on your road to living to
[1:09:21] Speaker 2: one hundred with fantastic health span and function. The second
[1:09:26] Speaker 2: circle is actually function. Do you have good metabolic function,
[1:09:30] Speaker 2: do you have good organ function? Do you have good
[1:09:33] Speaker 2: sleep and airway function? Do you have low inflammation? And
[1:09:37] Speaker 2: then there's another circle, which is performance, And ultimately that's
[1:09:40] Speaker 2: what we want. We all want to live a long
[1:09:42] Speaker 2: life or we can burn bright, and we want to
[1:09:44] Speaker 2: do all the things we want and actualize our lives.
[1:09:47] Speaker 2: It's the performance physical performance. I want to pick up
[1:09:50] Speaker 2: my grandkids. I want to go high can I want
[1:09:51] Speaker 2: to ride a bike. I want to think clearly. Cognitive function,
[1:09:55] Speaker 2: I want to enjoy my relationships. I want to go traveling.
[1:09:58] Speaker 2: I don't want to be frail.
[1:10:00] Speaker 1: I wont we be able to walk up the stairs
[1:10:01] Speaker 1: when the escalator is not working with my two bags
[1:10:03] Speaker 1: and I'm in another country.
[1:10:04] Speaker 2: Exactly, you travel to Europe, guess what five stories? There
[1:10:08] Speaker 2: is no lift right, you got to do it yourself.
[1:10:11] Speaker 2: They're the things that we need to think about and
[1:10:13] Speaker 2: some folks have performance goals and that should be part
[1:10:17] Speaker 2: of health. We have a lot of members who say, hey,
[1:10:20] Speaker 2: I have one of my patients through through ev LAP
[1:10:24] Speaker 2: this year. So last year when he went through our program,
[1:10:28] Speaker 2: we really focus on his metabolic health, really focus on
[1:10:30] Speaker 2: his heart health, and that's all on track. He's doing
[1:10:33] Speaker 2: really really well and so he's visceral fat. Fat inside
[1:10:36] Speaker 2: the abdominancavity has like gone from more than a kilo
[1:10:39] Speaker 2: down to like six hundred grams or something. He's doing superb.
[1:10:42] Speaker 2: He's feeling great. Stephen. This year, my goal is I
[1:10:45] Speaker 2: want to swim five kilometers in the open sea. That's
[1:10:50] Speaker 2: also part of health. So we shouldn't think of health
[1:10:54] Speaker 2: to do it the ability to do it. So we
[1:10:55] Speaker 2: shouldn't think of health just as something medical. Medical is
[1:10:57] Speaker 2: something very important part of it, but it should be
[1:11:00] Speaker 2: looking at someone in a holistic way, looking at all
[1:11:03] Speaker 2: their data and also think about what are your performance goals.
[1:11:07] Speaker 2: We also have folks who say, you know, I want
[1:11:08] Speaker 2: to run a I want to run a marathon under
[1:11:11] Speaker 2: three hours. That's a performance goal and we should support you.
[1:11:15] Speaker 2: We should help you get there and help you understand
[1:11:18] Speaker 2: what trade els do you make because if you say
[1:11:21] Speaker 2: I want to run a marathon on three hours, I
[1:11:24] Speaker 2: also want to have a fantastic musculature and you be
[1:11:27] Speaker 2: really adequately muscle and be super strong. Right, You're going
[1:11:30] Speaker 2: to have to make a trade off there because it's
[1:11:33] Speaker 2: very hard to be very bulky and run really fast.
[1:11:36] Speaker 1: And run a marathon.
[1:11:37] Speaker 2: So these are all I think supportive. The right answer
[1:11:42] Speaker 2: has to come from insights, and we don't want to
[1:11:45] Speaker 2: be the ones just hoarding on the information. We want
[1:11:47] Speaker 2: to present you with information, whether it's in our console,
[1:11:50] Speaker 2: whether if it's in our app, to say, here are
[1:11:53] Speaker 2: your goals based on your data, here's our advice. And
[1:11:58] Speaker 2: we take that same approach with I don't want to
[1:11:59] Speaker 2: have a stroke. I don't want to have a heart attack.
[1:12:02] Speaker 2: I want to be diagnosed with lay stage cancer. By
[1:12:04] Speaker 2: the way, you know forty five percent of all cancers
[1:12:08] Speaker 2: these are North Americans. Has forty five percent of all
[1:12:10] Speaker 2: cancers diagnosed in stage three to four.
[1:12:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, out of four, right, Joe Biden again stage four?
[1:12:16] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[1:12:17] Speaker 1: Can I just in the interest of time, so you
[1:12:20] Speaker 1: talk about members, how does it work? So like your
[1:12:22] Speaker 1: Victorian base, but does it ever? Is ever ever lab
[1:12:25] Speaker 1: or across Australia.
[1:12:26] Speaker 2: Or ever Lab now operates Australia wise.
[1:12:28] Speaker 1: Astralway, so there would be an Everlab sort of place
[1:12:31] Speaker 1: here in city.
[1:12:32] Speaker 2: Absolutely.
[1:12:34] Speaker 1: So you joined to become a member as a membership
[1:12:37] Speaker 1: type deal, that's right.
[1:12:38] Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's a ball Instagram.
[1:12:41] Speaker 1: Yep, it's various levels of membership.
[1:12:43] Speaker 2: That's right. There are various members of levels of membership,
[1:12:45] Speaker 2: but the main one, which you know, like I designed
[1:12:47] Speaker 2: all our programs, it's called the protocol membership. So it's
[1:12:50] Speaker 2: a year long program where you come through, we gather
[1:12:53] Speaker 2: up your historical records, you have a consultation with your
[1:12:56] Speaker 2: doctor to understand where our blind spots are, what we
[1:12:59] Speaker 2: might need to feel where your risks are, and then
[1:13:02] Speaker 2: you go through our diagnostics. We come back, we paint
[1:13:04] Speaker 2: this complete picture of you, and then we double click
[1:13:07] Speaker 2: and go even deeper. So you do a continuous glucose
[1:13:09] Speaker 2: monitor with food tracking to.
[1:13:12] Speaker 1: Further wear it on your arm.
[1:13:14] Speaker 2: Yeh, that's right, to further sss your metabolic function, how
[1:13:17] Speaker 2: your body processes sugar.
[1:13:18] Speaker 1: In other words, what you eat is how your body
[1:13:21] Speaker 1: responds to what you're eating.
[1:13:22] Speaker 2: Not just what you eat, but what you eat what
[1:13:25] Speaker 2: time with respect to exercise. If you don't have a
[1:13:27] Speaker 2: good night's sleep before, guess what, in real time, you
[1:13:30] Speaker 2: can actually see your metabolic performance get worse.
[1:13:33] Speaker 1: Right.
[1:13:33] Speaker 2: We also do functional testing so VO two max, so
[1:13:36] Speaker 2: that's testing your aerobic performance high the better number. People
[1:13:42] Speaker 2: who have high vieot maxes have a two to five
[1:13:44] Speaker 2: time reduction in all cause mortality.
[1:13:48] Speaker 1: About that before, because my virt to makes a pretty
[1:13:50] Speaker 1: good relative to my cohortive in terms of age. But
[1:13:54] Speaker 1: as you said, because someone could have a VIA a
[1:13:56] Speaker 1: very good VIA two makes good, but also could have
[1:13:58] Speaker 1: a problem with the heart.
[1:14:00] Speaker 2: But exactly so, that's why we need to cover all bases.
[1:14:04] Speaker 2: We should and true from the hip. Yeah, we want
[1:14:06] Speaker 2: to paint a whole picture. I think of it as
[1:14:08] Speaker 2: piecing together a puzzle. If you ask me, what's this
[1:14:10] Speaker 2: a picture of? Right, I don't want to guess. I
[1:14:13] Speaker 2: want to say, hold on, let me piece pierce together
[1:14:16] Speaker 2: the rest of the puzzle. I see the whole picture,
[1:14:19] Speaker 2: and then let's interrogate it. Let's answer questions. Yeah, and
[1:14:22] Speaker 2: then that's how we actually give you the most specific
[1:14:25] Speaker 2: things to do. So you know, if you I think
[1:14:26] Speaker 2: if you' john on our website, you can actually see.
[1:14:28] Speaker 1: I did it today. It's fascinating.
[1:14:30] Speaker 2: We've got we've got examples of like how deep it
[1:14:33] Speaker 2: goes to say what you should eat when and how
[1:14:36] Speaker 2: to make it and and also sometimes sometimes medications.
[1:14:41] Speaker 1: He's the only one, not you person, but it's ever
[1:14:43] Speaker 1: labbed one of the first starters of this in this
[1:14:47] Speaker 1: territory in Australia. Like, because I haven't really heard.
[1:14:48] Speaker 2: About this before, I think we are.
[1:14:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, there was one called Compound, which but I don't
[1:14:54] Speaker 1: think exists anymore. The ECAI group put it together called Compound,
[1:14:57] Speaker 1: but I don't I don't know if I haven't seen
[1:14:59] Speaker 1: it around for a long time, so I don't know
[1:15:00] Speaker 1: if it still exists. But Everlab I keep hearing about
[1:15:03] Speaker 1: I've heard about it a lot, and it's you founded
[1:15:07] Speaker 1: the company, but is it who is it owned by you?
[1:15:10] Speaker 1: Owned by others or is you sort of raise money
[1:15:12] Speaker 1: for it or.
[1:15:13] Speaker 2: Right, So we're venture backed health service, well startup. There
[1:15:17] Speaker 2: are four co founders. I'm the chief medical officer, so
[1:15:20] Speaker 2: I do all the medical programs and like my sole
[1:15:24] Speaker 2: focus is the clinical outcome, which we talked about today,
[1:15:27] Speaker 2: which is really how do we maximize people's health span
[1:15:31] Speaker 2: longevity at the lost possible lifetime costs.
[1:15:34] Speaker 1: And in terms of building awareness, not necessarily just about everylap,
[1:15:38] Speaker 1: but just generally the concept of evlab, which is a
[1:15:42] Speaker 1: new concept for Australians. It's probably not as new in
[1:15:45] Speaker 1: America as America's sort of there's lots of things going
[1:15:48] Speaker 1: on over here these days, but definitely here in Australia. Anyway,
[1:15:50] Speaker 1: how's the takeer been?
[1:15:52] Speaker 2: A really good? Yeah, really good. We're growing very very quickly.
[1:15:57] Speaker 2: I'm also on the you know, we're always we're recruiting
[1:16:00] Speaker 2: a lot of clinical staff, like doctors, allied health supporters,
[1:16:05] Speaker 2: all health, allied health providers. We're looking for like really
[1:16:08] Speaker 2: mission aligned and it's a really really exciting mission. So
[1:16:12] Speaker 2: we have like a lot of folks reaching out to
[1:16:13] Speaker 2: us as well. I want Australia's best and brightest to
[1:16:17] Speaker 2: help us on this mission.
[1:16:18] Speaker 1: And in terms of ever Labs sort of future, do
[1:16:22] Speaker 1: you see any changes or any additions to Are there
[1:16:25] Speaker 1: any sort of great wish lists that you have? I mean,
[1:16:28] Speaker 1: would you like to follow somebody who's forty five through
[1:16:30] Speaker 1: to one hundred for example, and sort of show, you know,
[1:16:34] Speaker 1: like a longitudinal study like you do actually studies on
[1:16:36] Speaker 1: some of these individuals.
[1:16:37] Speaker 2: That's that's not even a wish list, Like we're already
[1:16:40] Speaker 2: doing this so that this is our second as the clinician,
[1:16:43] Speaker 2: and I do a lot of research as well, So
[1:16:45] Speaker 2: I do genetic research with the University of Sydney in
[1:16:51] Speaker 2: again a genetic tech trial to try to predict people's
[1:16:56] Speaker 2: risk of heart disease. We're doing a lot of interesting
[1:16:59] Speaker 2: things down at the Mind Show Victori and Hard Institute
[1:17:01] Speaker 2: as well, looking at using mammograms to predict women's risk
[1:17:06] Speaker 2: of metabolic and cardiac disease. So there's a lot of
[1:17:09] Speaker 2: cancer together with cancer, right, so this is it. It
[1:17:13] Speaker 2: becomes a two for one, right, So like traditionally women
[1:17:15] Speaker 2: just through the mammogram for the sake of like picking
[1:17:18] Speaker 2: up breast cancer, but we can actually now look at
[1:17:23] Speaker 2: those images and forecast their risk and understand double click
[1:17:27] Speaker 2: into their risk of cardiact disease. So to me, academia
[1:17:30] Speaker 2: is really really important. Researcher is really really important. So
[1:17:32] Speaker 2: we've just done an audit internally of our second year
[1:17:37] Speaker 2: lab members. So we've only been operating for two years,
[1:17:40] Speaker 2: so this is our first cohort of second year members
[1:17:42] Speaker 2: and already we have fantastic data to show that like
[1:17:46] Speaker 2: they are improving on all the suboptimal biomarkers that we
[1:17:49] Speaker 2: set out to improve, reducing visceral fat, reducing fasting instant levels,
[1:17:55] Speaker 2: reducing their serium mercury level, which is really interesting, by
[1:17:57] Speaker 2: the way, I never thought I put up that much,
[1:18:00] Speaker 2: which is which is a heavy mat.
[1:18:02] Speaker 1: How are you testing?
[1:18:03] Speaker 2: How do you test on that? You test on blood?
[1:18:05] Speaker 1: Blood?
[1:18:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, there are different ways to test for it, but
[1:18:07] Speaker 2: blood is the is the best way.
[1:18:08] Speaker 1: And and in terms of the subercutane's versus visceral fat,
[1:18:14] Speaker 1: how you tested is a DEXA.
[1:18:15] Speaker 2: We use a dexiscan Dexis scan, and that not all
[1:18:17] Speaker 2: Dexis scans have the algorithm in the machine to do it,
[1:18:21] Speaker 2: but yeah, we use Texas scan. And it's great to
[1:18:23] Speaker 2: use Dexas scan to test test for vistral fat because
[1:18:25] Speaker 2: that's the research standard as well. So all of the
[1:18:29] Speaker 2: big databases looking at viserral fat research have gotten their
[1:18:31] Speaker 2: data from expensive.
[1:18:33] Speaker 1: It's so easy to do, Like it's about five minutes
[1:18:34] Speaker 1: or something. It's just hardly I mean for the for
[1:18:37] Speaker 1: the patient.
[1:18:37] Speaker 2: The patient. Look, you know, like I call it the
[1:18:39] Speaker 2: world's most boring carnival right, you lie on the thing
[1:18:41] Speaker 2: and it sort of moves around a bit further. So
[1:18:43] Speaker 2: our machines are quite good. It does seven to eight minutes.
[1:18:47] Speaker 1: Yeah seven do your does zev labs actually have labs
[1:18:51] Speaker 1: or do you send someone out for it? For we
[1:18:53] Speaker 1: have it.
[1:18:53] Speaker 2: We have our own labs.
[1:18:54] Speaker 1: You go to our labs. So you go to you
[1:18:55] Speaker 1: go to everylab and it's all pretty much everything like
[1:18:58] Speaker 1: the blood yeah.
[1:18:59] Speaker 2: So some of the like not all our labs look
[1:19:01] Speaker 2: exactly the same, but we have like different locations across
[1:19:05] Speaker 2: our different cities.
[1:19:06] Speaker 1: So I'm actually going to get I'm going to get
[1:19:08] Speaker 1: stuck in news. I'm actually going to give it a try.
[1:19:10] Speaker 1: I'm going to give every lape here in Sydney a try,
[1:19:12] Speaker 1: because if nothing else for me, I'd like to have
[1:19:17] Speaker 1: everything in one place. You said to me, I could
[1:19:19] Speaker 1: show you that the preneuver, and I thought it was. Oh,
[1:19:22] Speaker 1: that's exactly the point. I don't. I wish I had
[1:19:24] Speaker 1: it on my phone. I could show you on my
[1:19:26] Speaker 1: phone if I had an app. But instead it's in
[1:19:29] Speaker 1: my office sitting in a five.
[1:19:30] Speaker 2: Folder and a whole lot of other stuff.
[1:19:32] Speaker 1: With all my blood tests and everything else. And fortunately
[1:19:35] Speaker 1: these days. When you do a blood test, they say
[1:19:37] Speaker 1: we had a test on this date in this date,
[1:19:39] Speaker 1: and they show you comparisons. At least where do.
[1:19:42] Speaker 2: We see our app I can't wait time, so we
[1:19:45] Speaker 2: consolidate it. You know, we have a fantastic team. It's
[1:19:49] Speaker 2: very intuitive and it also makes the doctor's life easier.
[1:19:53] Speaker 2: So you know, my practice before I found it, ever
[1:19:57] Speaker 2: lab was also focused on exactly what we're talking about,
[1:20:00] Speaker 2: personalized proactive prevention focus health optimization. But we didn't have
[1:20:07] Speaker 2: the I didn't have the technological tools. So an equivalent service,
[1:20:11] Speaker 2: very common in North America, is like concierge care. So
[1:20:14] Speaker 2: I ran a small boutique concierge care service, right, I
[1:20:18] Speaker 2: had folks who had gone overseas much like yourself make
[1:20:21] Speaker 2: you know, went to Japan and spent twenty thousand USD
[1:20:24] Speaker 2: and had like two days worth of testing. And she
[1:20:27] Speaker 2: comes back with two leather bound books for me to
[1:20:31] Speaker 2: read basically, and that's a really expensive service because guess what,
[1:20:35] Speaker 2: it's my job to look after her. So I'm reading
[1:20:38] Speaker 2: every single page of this and I'm taking notes manually,
[1:20:40] Speaker 2: and I'm thinking about how it all pieces together. Whereas
[1:20:43] Speaker 2: we can now do this at much lower cost. We
[1:20:47] Speaker 2: give our doctor's superpowers to be able to digest this
[1:20:50] Speaker 2: information using AI so that they can get a very
[1:20:54] Speaker 2: clear summary of all the important information and get a
[1:20:57] Speaker 2: snapshot of who you are. And like I said, I
[1:21:00] Speaker 2: want you to leave our consult having as deep an
[1:21:04] Speaker 2: understanding of your own health and risks and health actions
[1:21:07] Speaker 2: as the doctor.
[1:21:08] Speaker 1: That you just spoke to.
[1:21:09] Speaker 2: And if you forget about it, it's on your app.
[1:21:12] Speaker 1: There you can look it up at any time and
[1:21:13] Speaker 1: if you want to discuss it with your partner, or
[1:21:14] Speaker 1: you want to discuss it with your kids, or you know,
[1:21:17] Speaker 1: you know a lot of times, you know, I know,
[1:21:20] Speaker 1: when my parents were alive, I would ask my mother
[1:21:22] Speaker 1: when she came back from you know, seeing the neurologists.
[1:21:26] Speaker 1: She would I'd say, Mom, what did the doctors say?
[1:21:30] Speaker 1: I don't know, my dear, And in the end I
[1:21:33] Speaker 1: had to go with her so that I could find
[1:21:36] Speaker 1: out what it was that I need to know that
[1:21:38] Speaker 1: the rest of the family needs to know, so I
[1:21:39] Speaker 1: could sort of parlay that to the rest of the family,
[1:21:41] Speaker 1: but also explain it to my dad because my dad
[1:21:43] Speaker 1: didn't understand for love or money, he had no idea
[1:21:48] Speaker 1: being a migrant in this country, just well, what the hell?
[1:21:51] Speaker 1: And if some and I would and then but I
[1:21:54] Speaker 1: would forget too. I would be taking notes. But you
[1:21:57] Speaker 1: know that's that's hopelessly year we're living in, you know, like.
[1:22:01] Speaker 2: We've got to have again, you know, a tool is
[1:22:05] Speaker 2: not a service, but a service has to have good tools. Yeah, right,
[1:22:08] Speaker 2: So I do this for a living mark. And if
[1:22:11] Speaker 2: you ask me, Steven, was last time you had a
[1:22:14] Speaker 2: blood test? And what's your LDL? And what's your apro B?
[1:22:16] Speaker 2: And like I have to look at my evlap appuse
[1:22:19] Speaker 2: you know what, Like I'm not remembering this every single
[1:22:22] Speaker 2: day in my life. Just like if I want to
[1:22:24] Speaker 2: know what my bank balance is, I take up my
[1:22:25] Speaker 2: phone and I just check on my app.
[1:22:27] Speaker 1: That's a very good point, you know, Like you know
[1:22:29] Speaker 1: I can do that on my phone. Yeah, anytime I
[1:22:32] Speaker 1: go to the app, I go to the app and
[1:22:35] Speaker 1: there it is, or most app there it is.
[1:22:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't do it for a health.
[1:22:38] Speaker 1: Why the hell we're not? Why? I mean this is
[1:22:41] Speaker 1: my final question to why do you think that we
[1:22:44] Speaker 1: haven't evolved like that? What is it that money is
[1:22:46] Speaker 1: more important than our health?
[1:22:49] Speaker 2: I think it's two factors. So number one, it is
[1:22:52] Speaker 2: very cultural because we've evolved, Like at least EVERLAB is
[1:22:56] Speaker 2: trying to evolve and push a movement from a sick
[1:23:02] Speaker 2: care system into a proactive health care system. So as
[1:23:06] Speaker 2: this goes on, I think we will see more uptake
[1:23:08] Speaker 2: in terms of saying, hey, let's really prioritize this and
[1:23:12] Speaker 2: let's make it more accessible, and let's practice medicine this way.
[1:23:16] Speaker 2: And we're sort of going I think we have to
[1:23:20] Speaker 2: drive this and culture will follow. The other aspect is
[1:23:24] Speaker 2: proactive care. There's fundamental difference between proactive care and reactive care.
[1:23:27] Speaker 2: Reactive care is coming back to an example of having appendicitis.
[1:23:31] Speaker 2: I don't need to build an app for you. You'll come
[1:23:33] Speaker 2: to me for sure, right because you're in the worst
[1:23:36] Speaker 2: pain in your life and this will kill you. So
[1:23:39] Speaker 2: you know something's wrong. The most insidious and biggest burden
[1:23:43] Speaker 2: chronic disease processes that we just talked about, know of
[1:23:46] Speaker 2: your symptoms. So we actually operate in the attention economy.
[1:23:52] Speaker 2: I need to grab your attention using your data, explain
[1:23:56] Speaker 2: it to you so that you know the importance and
[1:23:59] Speaker 2: you know where the return uninvestment is, so that a
[1:24:01] Speaker 2: lot of Folks will say, hey, look, I've only got
[1:24:04] Speaker 2: twenty minutes to spend on my health. Should I go
[1:24:06] Speaker 2: for a rine? Should I rowse? Should I do some ways?
[1:24:08] Speaker 1: Should I? Like?
[1:24:08] Speaker 2: What should I do? I only have so much time
[1:24:11] Speaker 2: to prepare food, Like I don't have a personal chef
[1:24:12] Speaker 2: at home to like, you know, to balance out my nutrition?
[1:24:16] Speaker 2: Like where am I going to get the biggest return
[1:24:20] Speaker 2: on investment if we can use that high value delivery?
[1:24:27] Speaker 2: That's what engages people, because you know when you're not
[1:24:30] Speaker 2: feeling well, and I want you to engage in your health.
[1:24:34] Speaker 2: I'm competing with your work, your family, your finances, your stresses,
[1:24:41] Speaker 2: the couch and Netflix right Instagram, Instagram. We really have
[1:24:46] Speaker 2: to like engage you, but also make it what I
[1:24:49] Speaker 2: call how do I deliver the most health span and
[1:24:53] Speaker 2: longevity at the lowest lifetime cost? And when I say costs,
[1:24:56] Speaker 2: I don't just mean monetary costs. It's actually your time,
[1:25:00] Speaker 2: it's actually your effort. So I think they're the two
[1:25:03] Speaker 2: things that if we solve, and we are solving, things
[1:25:07] Speaker 2: are going to change, and then people will expect the
[1:25:10] Speaker 2: level become the data, it becomes a normal. I think
[1:25:13] Speaker 2: this becomes a norm in like five ten years or.
[1:25:15] Speaker 1: Doctor Stephen Leu from Everlap. But I have to say
[1:25:17] Speaker 1: this as someone has been involved in industry very not
[1:25:20] Speaker 1: your industry, but industries where you know, we tried to
[1:25:24] Speaker 1: disrupt what the system was like, in my case was banking.
[1:25:29] Speaker 1: I think this is you know, Professor Christian Professor Clayton Christiansen,
[1:25:35] Speaker 1: the original founder of the term called disruptive technology in
[1:25:41] Speaker 1: disruptive business models. This is a real disruptor because you're
[1:25:45] Speaker 1: disrupting the way things have always been done with envelap.
[1:25:49] Speaker 1: I really think that. And my gap feeling is from
[1:25:53] Speaker 1: what you're saying too, is I tend to agree is
[1:25:57] Speaker 1: that this will be the way the future. This will
[1:25:59] Speaker 1: be the way in the future. The things remain being
[1:26:01] Speaker 1: done the way you're doing it. Like where me the
[1:26:04] Speaker 1: patient has much more engagement, much more control, much more
[1:26:08] Speaker 1: understanding and using technology, which is what all disruption does.
[1:26:12] Speaker 1: Uses some form of technology. It's becomes accessible to everybody.
[1:26:16] Speaker 1: If you've got a phone and you can and you've
[1:26:19] Speaker 1: got the internet, you can download the app, and you
[1:26:22] Speaker 1: can download the data, and you've got access to the
[1:26:24] Speaker 1: most important thing in your life, your health. So I
[1:26:27] Speaker 1: really appreciate you coming like. It's quite exciting. I'm definitely
[1:26:30] Speaker 1: going to go out to look up heaverlap here and
[1:26:31] Speaker 1: sitting again. I'm going to make an appointment. I'm going
[1:26:34] Speaker 1: to go and go through the process and we might
[1:26:35] Speaker 1: get the boys that bring the cameras on and sort
[1:26:37] Speaker 1: of film a bit of a bit of it. It's
[1:26:39] Speaker 1: all right by you. It's just me anyway, so it
[1:26:41] Speaker 1: doesn't really matter. Everyone knows everything about me, so I
[1:26:43] Speaker 1: appreciate you coming things for ourselves.
[1:26:45] Speaker 2: A great

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