# Baseline Episode with Dr Jarrod Meerkin - DEXA, RMR & VO2 MAX

An episode of [Project 100 with Mark Bouris](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1767053714), 20 Oct 2024, 1 h 22 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/05ac4e52-79fb-46b8-849c-b305000bd6d0/1ecb126f-40e3-4d4f-9d77-b305000c3669/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=ef13e652-7a19-41fd-9d0f-b305000bd6dc

All content and media by Project 100 is created and published online for informational purposes only. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health or personal advice. *** Dr Jarrod Meerkin is an accredited Exercise Physiologist with a PhD from Queensland University of Technology, as well as a Master’s degree (with honors) and a Bachelor of Applied Science from the University of Wollongong. Widely recognised as an expert in DEXA technology, Dr. Meerkin has built a distinguished career in both research and clinical practice. After completing his PhD, Dr. Meerkin became the National Sports Science Research Coordinator for the Australian Paralympic Committee. He then spent four years as a senior research fellow at QUT, focusing on obesity and exercise research. Six years ago, he moved to Sydney, where he continues to integrate research with clinical work before co-founding Measure Up. In this episode, we explore the intricacies of DEXA, RMR, and VO2 max testing, delving into why these assessments are regarded as vital measures of healthspan and longevity. I’ve personally undergone all of these tests, and we take time to reflect on my results throughout the discussion. While these are a few key metrics, we’ll be covering even more valuable insights as we continue this journey. Scientific Studies discussed: ZiMian Wang, Zhiliang Ying, Anja Bosy-Westphal, Junyi Zhang, Britta Schautz, Wiebke Later, Steven B Heymsfield, and Manfred J Müller Specific metabolic rates of major organs and tissues across adulthood: evaluation by mechanistic model of resting energy expenditure. Leah M. Kalm and Richard D. Semba They Starved So That Others Be Better Fed: Remembering Ancel Keys and the Minnesota Experiment The Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD. Alisa Nana, Gary J. Slater, Arthur D. Stewart, and Louise M. Burke Methodology Review: Using Dual-Energy X-Ray Absorptiometry (DXA) for the Assessment of Body Composition in Athletes and Active People. Kyle Mandsager, MD; Serge Harb, MD; Paul Cremer, MD; Dermot Phelan, MD, PhD; Steven E. Nissen, MD; Wael Jaber, MD Association of Cardiorespiratory Fitness With Long-term Mortality Among Adults Undergoing Exercise Treadmill Testing. Carlina V. Albanese, Evelyn Diessel, and Harry K. Genant Osteoporosis and Bone Pathology Unit of Study, Institute of Radiology, University of Rome “La Sapienza,” Viale Regina Elena, 326, 00161 Rome, Italy; Osteoporosis and Arthritis Research Group, University of California San Francisco, San Francisco CA 94143-0628, USA. Follow Project 100 on Instagram. Follow Mark Bouris on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter & YouTube. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Doctor Joa Meaghan, Welcome to one of our very first
[0:03] Speaker 1: episodes or Project one hundred. Well feel privileged? Well I do,
[0:08] Speaker 1: I actually feel privileged, and you are. I'm just going
[0:11] Speaker 1: to have to read this out. You're an accredited exercise
[0:13] Speaker 1: physiologist with a PhD from University of Tech in Queensland.
[0:18] Speaker 1: You also have a master's degree with honors and a
[0:21] Speaker 1: Bachelor of Replied Science from the University of Willingong. And
[0:24] Speaker 1: you're an expert on dexter technology, which we're going to
[0:27] Speaker 1: talk about a second. And as a pH d graduate,
[0:35] Speaker 1: I think that's the word, or having in the ward
[0:37] Speaker 1: of PhD, you must have specialized in something. What was
[0:41] Speaker 1: your novelty here?
[0:43] Speaker 2: I like the way you say that, because it is
[0:45] Speaker 2: it was novel. I used amputees as a model of disuse.
[0:52] Speaker 2: So obviously when you lose a leg, and I specifically
[0:56] Speaker 2: looked at those that had lost both a belonne and
[1:00] Speaker 2: above knee amputee. So when you do lose a leg,
[1:04] Speaker 2: everything changes your strength, your ability to walk, so gate changes,
[1:10] Speaker 2: strength changes, bone density changes, muscle mass changes. And I
[1:16] Speaker 2: looked at all that sort of thing over the course
[1:19] Speaker 2: of what should have been three years but was five
[1:22] Speaker 2: and a half years.
[1:23] Speaker 1: It must have done it a part time at some stages.
[1:25] Speaker 2: No, No, I had a busy I specifically wanted to
[1:30] Speaker 2: look at above knee amputees and I felt like a
[1:34] Speaker 2: little bit of an ambulance chaser because I wanted new
[1:36] Speaker 2: amputees and I only found one in that period of time.
[1:40] Speaker 2: So I had to rejig the whole affair and look
[1:45] Speaker 2: at what we termed a cross sectional examination or model.
[1:49] Speaker 2: So we added in able bodied or normal controls above
[1:54] Speaker 2: knee amputees and below knee amputees. And I used that
[1:59] Speaker 2: one amputee as a case study, who was an incredible
[2:03] Speaker 2: young kid who had lost his leg in a motorbike accident.
[2:07] Speaker 2: He was in the ADF and at the Inaugura barracks
[2:12] Speaker 2: up there in Brisbane, and the Army effectively said you
[2:18] Speaker 2: will participate. So I was lucky in respect to that.
[2:22] Speaker 1: Well, so I mean, I guess that sort of dovetails
[2:26] Speaker 1: into why did you decide to run your business? And
[2:30] Speaker 1: by the way, business is called measure up and at
[2:33] Speaker 1: measure up, as I understand it, If I'm wrong, you
[2:36] Speaker 1: can get a VIA two MAX, which we're going to
[2:38] Speaker 1: talk about test done. You can get rested metabolic rate
[2:46] Speaker 1: test done, you can get a dex of scan done.
[2:49] Speaker 1: There's probably other things you can get done, but we're
[2:50] Speaker 1: only going to talk about those three things today. But
[2:52] Speaker 1: why did you decide to specialize in those areas? Look at.
[2:57] Speaker 2: It started back in nineteen ninety two when I first
[3:01] Speaker 2: started using DEXA as part of my research work for
[3:05] Speaker 2: my masters, actually looking at whether a twelve week program
[3:09] Speaker 2: in young sedentary males could improve or increase bone density.
[3:13] Speaker 2: Back then, there were some exercise studies done, but a
[3:18] Speaker 2: lot of them. We were still trying to figure out
[3:20] Speaker 2: what was the best type of activity to improve or
[3:23] Speaker 2: increase bone density as we now know that is strength
[3:27] Speaker 2: training or resistance training, And that just led to the
[3:33] Speaker 2: progression from MASSES to PhD. Still trying to answer a
[3:37] Speaker 2: few questions and still utilizing DEXA as the main tool
[3:42] Speaker 2: to look at muscle mass and fat mass changes bone
[3:45] Speaker 2: density for example. And then post PhD, I was with
[3:54] Speaker 2: the Paralympic Committee for three years as their National Sports
[3:59] Speaker 2: Science Research co Ordinator that was getting research studies into
[4:03] Speaker 2: the Paragames here in Sydney in two thousand and then
[4:06] Speaker 2: helping to implement the Paralympic athletes into able bodied what
[4:13] Speaker 2: was called cisas system back then, so the state academies
[4:16] Speaker 2: and institutes of sport to integrate them into those academies.
[4:22] Speaker 2: Back into academia again as a research fellow in the
[4:27] Speaker 2: obesity and exercise domain, and again picking up DEXA as
[4:31] Speaker 2: the main tool, and then realizing that I'm really not
[4:34] Speaker 2: cut out to be a research academic and I wasn't
[4:37] Speaker 2: smart enough so in my opinion.
[4:41] Speaker 1: To become a businessman instead. Do you mind just explain
[4:46] Speaker 1: to us like a dex is a scan or sort
[4:48] Speaker 1: of like an imaging process where we look at fat,
[4:54] Speaker 1: bones and muscle. If I can put in the simplest terms,
[4:58] Speaker 1: that's all it is, and the relationship between the three
[5:02] Speaker 1: of them in terms of percentage of total body. But
[5:04] Speaker 1: what does dex actually scan for?
[5:06] Speaker 2: So it is dual energy X ray absorbed geometry. It
[5:09] Speaker 2: sounds really fancy, but it's not. The two different energies
[5:14] Speaker 2: of X ray hence the duel one looks at the
[5:16] Speaker 2: soft tissue, one looks at the hard tissue or bone,
[5:19] Speaker 2: and the attenuation as a big word between the two
[5:25] Speaker 2: to actually provide you with a measure of bone density.
[5:27] Speaker 2: And also fat mass, lean and lean mass. So yeah,
[5:32] Speaker 2: DEXA really hasn't changed since nineteen eighty seven except in
[5:37] Speaker 2: scan speed. That's all that's changed. So in nineteen ninety six,
[5:44] Speaker 2: the one I was using at QT in Brisbane, it
[5:46] Speaker 2: took twenty minutes to do a whole body scan if
[5:51] Speaker 2: you're over one hundred kilos, it actually took fifty two minutes.
[5:54] Speaker 2: Now I can do a one hundred and eighty kilo
[5:58] Speaker 2: person in three.
[6:00] Speaker 1: Minutes, and I did my recent scan. I think it
[6:02] Speaker 1: took three minutes, a little bit less than three minutes.
[6:05] Speaker 2: Very quick, very simple, very easy. And obviously the thing
[6:12] Speaker 2: that I suppose concerns most people at first is the
[6:16] Speaker 2: word X ray because it does involve radiation. But the
[6:22] Speaker 2: radiation dose from a DEXA scan is often described not
[6:27] Speaker 2: by me, but in the literature as negligible, and it's
[6:31] Speaker 2: measured in microceive its yep, and it's one to four
[6:36] Speaker 2: microceivets of radiation from a scan. Let's put that into perspective.
[6:42] Speaker 1: An average, average, average human can probably get about one
[6:46] Speaker 1: hundred sevets a year, So how many you're talking about
[6:50] Speaker 1: microft microceivets?
[6:51] Speaker 2: So yeah, the background the background dose that we all
[6:55] Speaker 2: get every day is about eight microceiver just from being
[6:57] Speaker 2: at level correct worse.
[6:59] Speaker 1: If you're above sea level. So they really we're talking
[7:02] Speaker 1: about negligible micro s but intake into us as a
[7:06] Speaker 1: result of being into a DEXA. And we're going to
[7:10] Speaker 1: talk about the one I did with you only this week.
[7:14] Speaker 1: I have to admit I've done a number of DEXes
[7:16] Speaker 1: over the years. I've done two with you guys, but
[7:19] Speaker 1: I've been doing them for a long time, and interestingly enough,
[7:23] Speaker 1: I haven't really sat down and compared my most recent results,
[7:26] Speaker 1: but I do know when I was doing at least
[7:30] Speaker 1: ten years ago, and I usually got to go and
[7:32] Speaker 1: bond a junctures not there anymore, and I used to
[7:36] Speaker 1: do them just to see. It's interesting over a twelve
[7:38] Speaker 1: week period, I used to see what my baseline position
[7:41] Speaker 1: was at the beginning of twelve weeks, where I had
[7:43] Speaker 1: fat that I could lose in order to make weight
[7:45] Speaker 1: to fight. So I used to just have to make
[7:47] Speaker 1: weight and I have to just to to drop some
[7:49] Speaker 1: like eight nine kilos just to make weight. And it
[7:56] Speaker 1: was a good way of working out did I actually
[7:58] Speaker 1: have enough fat to lose to make way? Wait, because
[8:01] Speaker 1: you know, you can't. You don't want to be dropping
[8:02] Speaker 1: weight down to you know, minus less than ten percent
[8:05] Speaker 1: of your body weight, because that exhausts you, and you've
[8:09] Speaker 1: got to be careful you don't start losing muscle as well.
[8:11] Speaker 1: That's exactly right.
[8:12] Speaker 2: I think boxing is one of the key sports and
[8:14] Speaker 2: MMA that actually are starting to realize that, hey, there's
[8:19] Speaker 2: a technology here or be it old, that we can
[8:23] Speaker 2: really make use of. And am I fighting it the
[8:26] Speaker 2: right weight? Or am I really struggling? Am I going
[8:30] Speaker 2: to have to lose too much lean tissue to compete
[8:33] Speaker 2: at this line?
[8:34] Speaker 1: And that's really the point to Jared for fighters or
[8:38] Speaker 1: but equally I could apply that to other people too,
[8:42] Speaker 1: like just some walking around someone who just says, out
[8:45] Speaker 1: of vanity they want to lose a whole lot of
[8:46] Speaker 1: weight to get maybe get cut and get a perhaps
[8:49] Speaker 1: a six pack or something along those lines. You know, vanity,
[8:52] Speaker 1: you can like, you know, people look at these photographs
[8:55] Speaker 1: of individuals who put themselves up there on Instagram various
[8:58] Speaker 1: other places, but they don't realize that that's someone who's
[9:00] Speaker 1: probably been needing six thousand calories a day for you know,
[9:04] Speaker 1: six months, putting a hell of resistance work, probably very
[9:08] Speaker 1: little aerobic stuff, a lot of resistance work. Then cuts
[9:11] Speaker 1: goes on a massive cut and they look like that
[9:14] Speaker 1: for a day, and then thereafter they couldn't. They'd be
[9:18] Speaker 1: lucky if they could walk up a set of stairs.
[9:21] Speaker 1: You just got nothing I can. And it's a falsehood.
[9:24] Speaker 2: I can think of three very good examples. I was
[9:29] Speaker 2: the clinician for POSH. I reckon two and a half
[9:34] Speaker 2: to three thousand scans early on in the business, and
[9:39] Speaker 2: the biggest factor, particularly for women, I had a box
[9:44] Speaker 2: of Kleenex on hand for them because on many occasions
[9:49] Speaker 2: it wasn't fat that was the problem. They would a
[9:52] Speaker 2: female would come in and they'd have a scan and
[9:54] Speaker 2: I'd say, hey, your ten kilos heavier than most women
[9:58] Speaker 2: due to your muscle mass alone. And they look at
[10:02] Speaker 2: me and they're working out what I've said, and the
[10:07] Speaker 2: tears start and they go, oh my god. So I'm
[10:12] Speaker 2: actually meant to be seventy five kilos, not sixty five
[10:15] Speaker 2: killers like everyone tells me I should be. I said,
[10:18] Speaker 2: you'll never be sixty five killers. You've got too much
[10:20] Speaker 2: muscle tissue, you know, it's fantastic where or.
[10:23] Speaker 1: You've got muscle tissue. Not too much, yeah, exact, because
[10:27] Speaker 1: that's the point. Yeah, too much is never enough. We
[10:30] Speaker 1: are built a certain way, that's right, all of us,
[10:32] Speaker 1: and we can't and and the DEX machine tells the truth.
[10:37] Speaker 1: It's pretty much the gold standard in terms of working
[10:41] Speaker 1: out the distribution between those three things bone, muscle, and fat.
[10:46] Speaker 1: That's right. It is a goal. I mean, like, you know,
[10:48] Speaker 1: these pinched tests and all that, they're all bullshit. I mean,
[10:51] Speaker 1: look they weight versus height. Yeah, I look like I'm
[10:55] Speaker 1: a beats on a body mass index. Yet on your decks,
[10:58] Speaker 1: I'm not a beast. So like, and because in terms
[11:00] Speaker 1: of muscle relative to my height, there's and what therefore weight,
[11:07] Speaker 1: I look like I would be considered to be overweight.
[11:10] Speaker 1: And this has been the thing that's been sends people cuckoo.
[11:14] Speaker 2: That's a really important measure that you've just bought brought up.
[11:18] Speaker 2: It's called almi appendicular lean muscle index and or lean
[11:25] Speaker 2: mass index, and it's now used as a psycopenia index.
[11:31] Speaker 2: Or psycopenia is the loss of muscle tissue with age
[11:35] Speaker 2: really crucial that males and females maintain their lean tissue mass.
[11:41] Speaker 2: So now we've actually got some numbers that you can
[11:44] Speaker 2: get from the DEXA to help you or ensure that
[11:47] Speaker 2: you're meeting your target. That's all we want. We want targets.
[11:51] Speaker 2: We want to know where we are. We don't want
[11:54] Speaker 2: to be like you just suggested with a BMI, which
[11:57] Speaker 2: should have been thrown out with with the bathwater button
[12:02] Speaker 2: up boots. Yeah, you know it was should have been
[12:06] Speaker 2: left for epidemiological research, not brought down to the individual
[12:10] Speaker 2: level for an individual to go. You know, you're obese
[12:14] Speaker 2: or you're whatever.
[12:16] Speaker 1: That's and this whole process of averages I mean, and
[12:19] Speaker 1: I'm always been in a quantitative sense statistically always against
[12:23] Speaker 1: averages because averages just don't mean anything, particularly when we
[12:26] Speaker 1: have access to machinery and or software like the decks
[12:30] Speaker 1: are that would actually tell us specifically how I am.
[12:34] Speaker 1: You can compare me to my cohort, but you're comparing
[12:39] Speaker 1: me specifically to my coboard as opposed to just taking
[12:43] Speaker 1: me as on a BMI number and comparing that to
[12:46] Speaker 1: the whole the co order people of my age, who
[12:48] Speaker 1: all be measured exactly the same way. So this is
[12:51] Speaker 1: a much more specific way of finding out where I sit.
[12:54] Speaker 1: Can I just ask so you said something interesting about
[12:57] Speaker 1: cycopedia and cycopedia being like sort of like a des
[13:00] Speaker 1: as you get a holder let's call it of muscle
[13:03] Speaker 1: wasting or losing your muscle your form, and that sort
[13:08] Speaker 1: of sort of doftails right into this whole concept of
[13:10] Speaker 1: longevity or living longer or perhaps living better for the
[13:14] Speaker 1: length of time you do live. How how would someone
[13:20] Speaker 1: use a dexa And I'm using a dexter as a
[13:22] Speaker 1: baseline for myself, not to lose weight to make weight
[13:27] Speaker 1: for fighting anymore, just as a baseline from here on.
[13:29] Speaker 1: And let's do one every year or whatever the period
[13:32] Speaker 1: is until the day I die. That's how I consider
[13:35] Speaker 1: I'm going to do it. So I get a sense
[13:37] Speaker 1: of where I'm losing muscle, where I maybe I'm be
[13:40] Speaker 1: able to concentrate on regaining muscle, where I'm gaining fat,
[13:43] Speaker 1: and you know where I maybe want to maybe perhaps
[13:46] Speaker 1: want to lose fat where it's dangerous. Where does a
[13:48] Speaker 1: dexa then, in your opinion, in your in your clinical opinion,
[13:53] Speaker 1: does a DEXA scan fit into the whole process of
[13:57] Speaker 1: people thinking, at least thinking about longevity.
[14:02] Speaker 2: I would choose four measures. The first that I would
[14:10] Speaker 2: say to everyone not to even consider or worry about.
[14:14] Speaker 2: Is body fat percentage. Again, it's another measure that has
[14:20] Speaker 2: taken your individual result, taken your fat mass, divided it
[14:26] Speaker 2: by your weight, given you a percentage.
[14:28] Speaker 1: Why so you can compare it with someone else.
[14:31] Speaker 2: Use the absolute values from the Dexer absolute fat mass,
[14:35] Speaker 2: absolute lean mass. So the four measures for me would
[14:39] Speaker 2: be lean tissue mass overall. I want to know how
[14:43] Speaker 2: my body is faring in terms of absolute total lean.
[14:47] Speaker 1: Mass muscle mass. If that's what you mean by that
[14:50] Speaker 1: lean mass being the actual muscle correct in my body, Yeah, yep, right.
[14:55] Speaker 2: Then I would go down to one of the indexes
[14:59] Speaker 2: that would be the appendicular lean mass index al LMI.
[15:05] Speaker 2: And that allow allows you to provide a reference around cycopenia.
[15:12] Speaker 2: So for males, you want to be above seven point
[15:15] Speaker 2: twenty five.
[15:16] Speaker 1: What does it mean?
[15:17] Speaker 2: So seven point two five kilograms per meter squared you
[15:21] Speaker 2: want to have per kilogram perses. So it's examining the
[15:26] Speaker 2: muscle in the amount of muscle in the arms and
[15:29] Speaker 2: the legs divided by height squared.
[15:32] Speaker 1: Right, And what does that tell me?
[15:34] Speaker 2: Well, that just gives you a very easy quick reference
[15:37] Speaker 2: to go, Wow, I'm above seven point twenty five.
[15:40] Speaker 1: That's great.
[15:41] Speaker 2: That means that is one of the factors associated with cycopenia.
[15:46] Speaker 2: There's another two. One is gate speed, so you get
[15:50] Speaker 2: up from a chair and walk a certain distance. It
[15:53] Speaker 2: should be within a particular range. And the third is
[15:56] Speaker 2: grip strength. They are the three clinical tests used to
[16:00] Speaker 2: determined if an individual has or is sycopenic.
[16:04] Speaker 1: Right, that's interesting. So I've got a got a grip
[16:06] Speaker 1: strength dynamometer in my car and I'm actually I often
[16:12] Speaker 1: do it, and they say that you should. I think
[16:15] Speaker 1: I think a mile over fifty, which I'm in that category,
[16:19] Speaker 1: should be able to gript ko.
[16:21] Speaker 2: Yeah, is that about right? Yeah, I think it's that's
[16:24] Speaker 2: spot on.
[16:24] Speaker 1: I think I grip more in that. But I mean
[16:25] Speaker 1: that's that you should be doing at least that. Yeah.
[16:28] Speaker 2: There are some normative tables around. They're very easy to
[16:32] Speaker 2: find online, and you should be equal ideally, Yeah, you
[16:37] Speaker 2: might have a dominant Yeah, it's normally you would.
[16:41] Speaker 1: You can.
[16:42] Speaker 2: I mean, we just do both because it's literally a
[16:45] Speaker 2: five second test. Yeah, so, and yeah, you get some
[16:51] Speaker 2: very useful The other really unique one is a hang.
[16:53] Speaker 1: Test how long you can hold your Yeah.
[16:56] Speaker 2: But it's a great one for people just to do
[16:58] Speaker 2: on their own in the gym, or they've got someone
[17:00] Speaker 2: there that can help them with a stop watch.
[17:03] Speaker 1: Just going back to the dexer though, So you said
[17:07] Speaker 1: something about interesting about fat. So the dexer also will
[17:11] Speaker 1: show you where the fat's distributed. Yeah, so we've done
[17:14] Speaker 1: lean mass ALMI perpendicular lean mass index. Then I would
[17:19] Speaker 1: do your total fat mass. This is all off of
[17:23] Speaker 1: DEXA scand correct.
[17:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you want to, you can break that
[17:28] Speaker 2: down into the trunk the left arm, right arm, left leg,
[17:31] Speaker 2: right leg, and the dexer does do that.
[17:33] Speaker 1: Yep, does it all for you.
[17:34] Speaker 2: And then probably one of the most important clinical indicators
[17:38] Speaker 2: is what we term visceral fat and the dexit and
[17:43] Speaker 2: this is it provides an estimate of visceral fat. People
[17:48] Speaker 2: say it's a measurement, but one you need to have
[17:50] Speaker 2: a really well trained clinician to make sure you've got
[17:54] Speaker 2: the cut lines for visceral fat in the right spot.
[17:57] Speaker 2: So it is looking pretty much over the belly button
[18:01] Speaker 2: from back to front, a little tiny box over the
[18:05] Speaker 2: belly button, and it gives you a really good indicator
[18:09] Speaker 2: of the amount of fat tissue that is surrounding the
[18:13] Speaker 2: organs and that fat is responsible for cardio metabolic type diseases,
[18:18] Speaker 2: type two diabetes and heart disease. So that marker in
[18:22] Speaker 2: itself in centimeters cubed is also a very very useful indicator.
[18:28] Speaker 2: So they are the four lean mass, fat mass ALMI
[18:33] Speaker 2: and visceral fat measures.
[18:34] Speaker 1: And will have a bone density. Well, where's that fit
[18:37] Speaker 1: into the whole longevity discussion.
[18:39] Speaker 2: They're the soft tissue measures.
[18:41] Speaker 1: Yep.
[18:41] Speaker 2: Then we move on to bone density and I was
[18:45] Speaker 2: at a symposium on Wednesday with the It was the
[18:51] Speaker 2: High Performance or Human Performance Symposium for the Australian Army
[18:56] Speaker 2: and an amazing study that was recently done by Captain
[19:00] Speaker 2: Angela Uphill and amazing work working with the SAS and
[19:05] Speaker 2: she has shown that a lot of those that didn't
[19:08] Speaker 2: finish the three week SAS course with those with lower
[19:13] Speaker 2: bone mineral density or more more prone to fractures or
[19:16] Speaker 2: had fractures. So bone density is really important, whether you're
[19:20] Speaker 2: at the elite level as our elite soldiers, or whether
[19:25] Speaker 2: you're at the you know someone who's just starting on
[19:29] Speaker 2: their exercise health and longevity journey and at whatever age,
[19:35] Speaker 2: bone density is a really critical measure how government provides
[19:39] Speaker 2: us with a free Medicare bone density scan when you
[19:45] Speaker 2: reach seventy.
[19:46] Speaker 1: Don't know what the.
[19:47] Speaker 2: Hell of the use is at that particular.
[19:49] Speaker 1: Age for many, but.
[19:52] Speaker 2: You know, for many women, particularly pre and postmenopausal, getting
[19:56] Speaker 2: a bone density scan early, and I would also say
[20:00] Speaker 2: for many men. But what the total body scan can
[20:03] Speaker 2: do from a DEXA is it At least it will
[20:06] Speaker 2: give you a very good indication of your bone health.
[20:09] Speaker 2: And if there's a we see an issue, particularly in
[20:14] Speaker 2: the lumber spine, we do a little separate measurement there.
[20:18] Speaker 2: We will always refer back to the GP for a
[20:21] Speaker 2: lumber spine ephemeral neck bone density scan. So bone density
[20:25] Speaker 2: is crucial. You know, there's a very high correlation or
[20:29] Speaker 2: relationship between muscle strength and bone mass and bone density
[20:34] Speaker 2: and very very important as we age.
[20:37] Speaker 1: And how often would you suggest, I'm sixty eights, so
[20:43] Speaker 1: how often would you suggest, say someone like me go
[20:48] Speaker 1: back to comparing or go back to getting other DEXA
[20:52] Speaker 1: scans to compare to my original baseline. So let's assume
[20:57] Speaker 1: my baseline is what we did this week. Would you
[21:00] Speaker 1: suggest is are we talking about once every six months, once.
[21:03] Speaker 2: A year what would you say this. It's a very
[21:05] Speaker 2: good question. It's a very good question, and it really
[21:07] Speaker 2: comes down to what are you trying to achieve? You know,
[21:12] Speaker 2: you are fit, well and healthy. Every six months to
[21:17] Speaker 2: a year would probably be sufficient. If I'm a you know,
[21:23] Speaker 2: a twenty four year old bodybuilder or fitness figure athlete,
[21:30] Speaker 2: and I'm trying to use the dexter DEXA to say, hey,
[21:36] Speaker 2: I follow this diet and this exercise regime over a
[21:40] Speaker 2: twelve week period, how well.
[21:42] Speaker 1: Did I do?
[21:44] Speaker 2: You might be doing them every three months personally, and
[21:50] Speaker 2: you need a good, in my opinion, ten to twelve
[21:54] Speaker 2: weeks to see good compositional change. Those other measures that
[21:59] Speaker 2: you talked about skinfold calipers. If you've got a trained,
[22:05] Speaker 2: accredited individual to take skin folds, you don't convert them
[22:09] Speaker 2: to a percentage. You use a summ of skin folds.
[22:12] Speaker 2: That's a great in between measure. Bioelectrical impedance is also
[22:18] Speaker 2: an okay between DEXA measure. And you use these things
[22:22] Speaker 2: as trends. Am I going up? Am I coming down?
[22:25] Speaker 2: In terms of my fat mass or lean mass?
[22:27] Speaker 1: So I think what you're saying, though, Jared, is it's
[22:30] Speaker 1: more about understanding your statistics relative to you. Whatever you
[22:35] Speaker 1: the cadences depends on what functionality to achieve.
[22:39] Speaker 2: It's an individual prescription and I think that's key, and
[22:45] Speaker 2: I think that's it's a key to health and longevity
[22:48] Speaker 2: for everyone today actually is don't worry about other people
[22:52] Speaker 2: around you or compare yourself to them. See how you're
[22:55] Speaker 2: doing from period to period.
[22:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, Because what's interesting about this, and I don't know
[23:01] Speaker 1: if you're aware of this, but I I on purpose
[23:03] Speaker 1: had a DEXA with you guys in March because I
[23:09] Speaker 1: tore my bicep off my arm sparring stupidly, and I
[23:13] Speaker 1: haven't sparred since I'm not going to spar anymore because
[23:15] Speaker 1: I've just decided not to. But and I had to
[23:18] Speaker 1: have it reattached, so I had had the full thing
[23:21] Speaker 1: going on. So I did this scan after four weeks
[23:25] Speaker 1: of doing no training because I couldn't train because my
[23:26] Speaker 1: marm was in a sling. And then and then I
[23:31] Speaker 1: it's pretty much healed up now and it's not one
[23:34] Speaker 1: hundred cents close enough. So I went out a DEXA
[23:36] Speaker 1: six months later just to see the difference. And what's
[23:41] Speaker 1: interesting about what happened with me is that I lost.
[23:44] Speaker 1: I had less fat on my book, my system because
[23:48] Speaker 1: I wasn't eating as much back in March, but I
[23:51] Speaker 1: had less muscle as well, and this time I've got Now,
[23:54] Speaker 1: I've got more muscle and more fat because I've been
[23:57] Speaker 1: out to train. I've been aw to do that. I
[23:58] Speaker 1: actually been able to do resistance training over the last
[24:00] Speaker 1: four months, which I couldn't do for about a four
[24:03] Speaker 1: or five week period, and I actually lost quite a
[24:06] Speaker 1: bit of muscle in that short period.
[24:08] Speaker 2: It doesn't it doesn't take long. And I've got your
[24:10] Speaker 2: results here. You've got to I assume it was.
[24:13] Speaker 1: Your left arm. Yeah, my left arm.
[24:15] Speaker 2: Correct, You've got four point one kilos of lean mass
[24:18] Speaker 2: in the left, four point four in the right. What
[24:22] Speaker 2: I would class as a normal Are you left or
[24:24] Speaker 2: right hand?
[24:25] Speaker 1: I'm actually left handed, but but I'm ambidexterous as well,
[24:29] Speaker 1: so I can I can right with my right hand,
[24:33] Speaker 1: but my stronger arm, my normally my stronger grip is
[24:36] Speaker 1: my left right Okay, and I was southboro. Yeah. Interesting.
[24:41] Speaker 2: A normal dominance difference would be two hundred and fifty
[24:46] Speaker 2: two hundred, two hundred and fifty grams difference between the
[24:49] Speaker 2: left and right arm. That's what I would you know
[24:51] Speaker 2: in inverted commas, say is a normal dominance difference, So
[24:55] Speaker 2: your difference is three hunder grams the other way.
[24:58] Speaker 1: So well, that's the injury.
[24:59] Speaker 2: So you've got probably a little bit more work to
[25:02] Speaker 2: do to rebuild it.
[25:03] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And actually because I couldn't train, like I
[25:07] Speaker 1: didn't feel like training, to be honest, but because I
[25:10] Speaker 1: had a mom and this thing, I lost muscle pretty
[25:12] Speaker 1: much everywhere because I had to just basically stop doing
[25:15] Speaker 1: ways generally for quite a while. And then when I did,
[25:19] Speaker 1: it's amazing. When I did start back, I was much weaker,
[25:21] Speaker 1: so I had to start all over again. Sort of thing,
[25:25] Speaker 1: which is you know, that's important because this is an
[25:28] Speaker 1: example where Dexter tells you something you have an injury.
[25:31] Speaker 1: As you get older, you get injuries. It's much easier
[25:33] Speaker 1: to get an injury, I should say. And then you
[25:36] Speaker 1: can sort of see where you started, where you are,
[25:38] Speaker 1: and it gives you a bit of a goal to
[25:39] Speaker 1: perhaps get back to where you were six months earlier,
[25:41] Speaker 1: a year earlier perhaps, And for me, it's adding science
[25:48] Speaker 1: to what we think. You know, I already knew i'd
[25:51] Speaker 1: lost muscle. I could tell when you look yourself in
[25:54] Speaker 1: the mirror, don't you. And I knew how strong I
[25:56] Speaker 1: did or it didn't feel. I knew that instinctively, but
[26:00] Speaker 1: I didn't really know how, why, where, And what a
[26:03] Speaker 1: dex it does for you is actually gives you proper
[26:05] Speaker 1: measurements and you can actually do proper comparisons, you know, scientific, scientific,
[26:10] Speaker 1: or at least it's scientific is not the right word,
[26:14] Speaker 1: more technical, more properly mathematically calculated through the software which.
[26:20] Speaker 2: It makes things very easy for you. I used it
[26:22] Speaker 2: when I did a meniscus in my right knee, and
[26:26] Speaker 2: I used it to see when my left thigh and
[26:31] Speaker 2: right thigh muscular shore back to where they should be.
[26:34] Speaker 1: Yeah, and I know I'm not back there, and I didn't.
[26:37] Speaker 1: I thought I was getting close. But as a result
[26:39] Speaker 1: of doing this this week, I know I'm not there
[26:42] Speaker 1: and they just make that actually, you know, like it
[26:45] Speaker 1: motivates me to go a bit harder and try a
[26:47] Speaker 1: bit more, because you know, you when you're doing especially arms,
[26:50] Speaker 1: I don't do a lot of arm exercises, but I
[26:54] Speaker 1: probably should be doing more of that because and you
[26:57] Speaker 1: get a little bit when you've had an injury, you
[26:59] Speaker 1: get a little bit Gunsho. You're not sure how much
[27:02] Speaker 1: you can pull, Well you know how much you can twist.
[27:04] Speaker 1: Very true. And you think, especially as you get older,
[27:07] Speaker 1: because you're thinking about that bloody operation. You don't have
[27:09] Speaker 1: to go through a process yet. So, Jared, how easy
[27:13] Speaker 1: is it to get a DEXI scan? I'm going to
[27:15] Speaker 1: have to go to a doctor. Do you have to
[27:16] Speaker 1: get a referral? Do I just bring up you guys?
[27:18] Speaker 1: How's it all work?
[27:20] Speaker 2: For bone density? You require a referral Australia wide. For
[27:24] Speaker 2: a body composition scan, it's much simpler in New South
[27:31] Speaker 2: Wales and Queensland. You don't require a referral from a
[27:35] Speaker 2: medical practitioner. You can just give us a call and
[27:40] Speaker 2: come in and have the scan done. Victoria could go
[27:47] Speaker 2: to town here, but I won't have. Victoria changed the
[27:50] Speaker 2: licensing regulations in twenty eighteen and destroyed five decks of
[27:55] Speaker 2: businesses very quickly. They are slowly popping back there. But
[28:00] Speaker 2: require a specialist medical referral in Victoria, not a GP,
[28:07] Speaker 2: but a specialist.
[28:08] Speaker 1: Yes, that's too expensive. Well it makes it very different.
[28:12] Speaker 1: It's a pain in the ass. Yeah too, it makes
[28:14] Speaker 1: it very difficult.
[28:15] Speaker 2: The Department of Health and human services there. I'm sure
[28:20] Speaker 2: they had their reasons, but I am still trying to
[28:22] Speaker 2: work those out.
[28:24] Speaker 1: So if you're in Victoria, come up and you said,
[28:25] Speaker 1: while and get it done. So it's not a difficult thing.
[28:29] Speaker 1: And so basically you just turn up you I mean,
[28:31] Speaker 1: I had a pair of jocks on and a T shirt.
[28:34] Speaker 1: You're not naked. You lay down on your back on
[28:38] Speaker 1: the dex of machine. As we said earlier, it takes
[28:41] Speaker 1: a couple of minutes. There's no big deal, and pretty
[28:44] Speaker 1: much your technician there, his name was a Brendan. The
[28:50] Speaker 1: results are sort of immediate. Yeah, that's how we go
[28:54] Speaker 1: through with you. Yeah.
[28:55] Speaker 2: No, he's a very skilled physiologist and and a great
[29:02] Speaker 2: part of our team actually, and yeah, we get imparted
[29:07] Speaker 2: that information very very quickly and easily and in a
[29:11] Speaker 2: format that's very easy to understand. I think that's the
[29:14] Speaker 2: most important part. There are a lot of numbers to
[29:17] Speaker 2: look at, and you know, you need to pick out
[29:22] Speaker 2: the ones that are important, like we've just discussed, and
[29:25] Speaker 2: take the individual through those. I think what's also important
[29:28] Speaker 2: to mention is that like every measure, there are errors involved,
[29:35] Speaker 2: and the errors in the dexter is plus or minus
[29:38] Speaker 2: about two hundred and fifty to three hundred grams.
[29:41] Speaker 1: That's why.
[29:42] Speaker 2: And you wouldn't one, you wouldn't get one done every
[29:44] Speaker 2: week because obviously the error is going to come into
[29:47] Speaker 2: play there. Two, there's some biological variability that you need
[29:51] Speaker 2: to take care of. You go to the bathroom beforehand,
[29:55] Speaker 2: Try not to exercise, perhaps in the morning before you scan.
[30:00] Speaker 2: No large amounts of water to drink prior to the
[30:03] Speaker 2: scan or food. These are all variables that are known
[30:06] Speaker 2: to influence the scan. So you just take care follow
[30:11] Speaker 2: the list and that's about it.
[30:16] Speaker 1: That's DEXes. And if we can move on to RMR,
[30:20] Speaker 1: which stands for resting metabolic rate. It's a calculation. But
[30:26] Speaker 1: first can you describe to us what the test looks like,
[30:33] Speaker 1: help feels? So what are we doing?
[30:36] Speaker 2: I'll go, I'll start, I'll start backwards and go for Okay,
[30:40] Speaker 2: So resting metabolic rate is we all every time we move,
[30:44] Speaker 2: every time we do something. All the energy that our
[30:47] Speaker 2: body use every day is called total energy expenditure and
[30:51] Speaker 2: TAE or total energy expenditure, is made up of your
[30:56] Speaker 2: resting metabolic rate, the number of calories required to sustain
[31:01] Speaker 2: life at rest. I was breathing, thinking, digesting, doing absolutely nothing,
[31:06] Speaker 2: but there are things happening. There are, yeah, lots of
[31:09] Speaker 2: things happening. Then there's the thermic effect of feeding. So
[31:13] Speaker 2: when you eat food, you increase your metabolism. I don't
[31:16] Speaker 2: know if you've ever sat out on a on what
[31:19] Speaker 2: you think was a warm night but ended up being
[31:21] Speaker 2: a cold night. But as soon as you started eating,
[31:23] Speaker 2: you warm up. You feel a little bit more comfortable
[31:27] Speaker 2: with your outside position on the table there on the harbor.
[31:31] Speaker 1: Of course, protein has a much greater thermic effect than
[31:35] Speaker 1: anything else, correct.
[31:37] Speaker 2: And then the third component is your activities of daily
[31:41] Speaker 2: living and physical activity. So all those three components go
[31:44] Speaker 2: to make up your total daily energy expenditure or total
[31:48] Speaker 2: energy expenditure resting metabolic rate. Let's put it into perspective.
[31:52] Speaker 2: If you have a god for big COMBA patient in hospital,
[31:57] Speaker 2: the dietitians doctors want to know how much to tube
[32:00] Speaker 2: feed that individual to sustain their life at rest. So
[32:05] Speaker 2: hopefully the hospital has a metabolic cut which they can
[32:08] Speaker 2: use to determine RMA, and they get that measurement, they
[32:14] Speaker 2: convert that measurement to calories, and then it gives them
[32:18] Speaker 2: an idea of the baseline number of calories required to
[32:22] Speaker 2: sustain that individual at rest.
[32:26] Speaker 1: Right, So, in other words, what are the amount of
[32:28] Speaker 1: calories that individual needs in this example of someone who
[32:31] Speaker 1: is in a coma, but that individual needs that are
[32:33] Speaker 1: basically not going to move, not even going to open
[32:37] Speaker 1: their eyes, but something that still allows air hard to punt, blah,
[32:43] Speaker 1: pump blood, the stomach to digest whatever it gets fed
[32:46] Speaker 1: into them.
[32:48] Speaker 2: Obviously, that's right, that's right, breathing, et cetera. There's a
[32:52] Speaker 2: So what are those components? It's a good question. So
[32:57] Speaker 2: a liar, I think I can't remember the date exactly,
[33:01] Speaker 2: but I've given you some papers that you can. They're
[33:05] Speaker 2: all free access papers that will reference a lot of
[33:08] Speaker 2: what I've spoken about today. And one of them is
[33:10] Speaker 2: this a liar reference and that he was the first
[33:15] Speaker 2: individual to actually try and determine how many calories per
[33:20] Speaker 2: day at rest the organs required. So if you lay
[33:24] Speaker 2: out your organs on a table and you stick something
[33:27] Speaker 2: in them, and it can give you a number your heart, lung, liver, kidneys,
[33:31] Speaker 2: and brain, it's around two hundred to four hundred calories
[33:36] Speaker 2: per kilo per day per your organ tissues. One of
[33:41] Speaker 2: the most energetic of all is actually the kidneys, and
[33:45] Speaker 2: so that's where this requirement for something at rest comes from.
[33:51] Speaker 2: Your body has these organs, and those organs require energy
[33:56] Speaker 2: to exist.
[33:57] Speaker 1: No matter what you do, you need give those a
[34:00] Speaker 1: certain amount of energy. And in my case, well maybe
[34:04] Speaker 1: you just just quickly describe though what the test is.
[34:08] Speaker 2: Well, I'll just I'll finish this quickly. So that's the
[34:11] Speaker 2: component of the metabolism for the organs. Your muscle tissue
[34:17] Speaker 2: is about twenty calories per kilo per day. Your fat
[34:23] Speaker 2: or adipose tissue is about three bones about five to ten,
[34:28] Speaker 2: so they will require energy to they do, but at
[34:31] Speaker 2: rest a lot less than your organ tissue. I always
[34:34] Speaker 2: say that, you know, the ultimate weight loss thing would
[34:37] Speaker 2: be to increase the size of your organ tissues over
[34:41] Speaker 2: twelve weeks and you'll drop a hell of a lot
[34:43] Speaker 2: of weight. But obviously that's not quite possible. So yeah,
[34:49] Speaker 2: this test, it provides a very useful number, and it's
[34:53] Speaker 2: conducted by using what's called a metabolic cart. You measuring
[34:59] Speaker 2: oxygen and cub and dark side. Obviously you're how much
[35:02] Speaker 2: oxygen you use and how much carbon dioxide you expire,
[35:05] Speaker 2: and you calculate that over the course of say twenty
[35:09] Speaker 2: to forty minutes, making sure it just depends on making
[35:13] Speaker 2: sure that that individual has reached a plateau in some
[35:17] Speaker 2: of those measurements, and you pick the last ten minutes
[35:22] Speaker 2: of data and you apply that information to what's termed
[35:25] Speaker 2: the Weir equation, and that Weird equation will then convert
[35:30] Speaker 2: those measures to calories percula today.
[35:33] Speaker 1: So basically, what you're doing in that twenty fifteen twenty
[35:36] Speaker 1: minute period when the person is being tested, you're measuring
[35:41] Speaker 1: oxygen intake versus common dioxide expelled at the period where
[35:49] Speaker 1: you are, were you the technician driving the machine that's
[35:53] Speaker 1: looking at all this convinced that the person is actually
[35:55] Speaker 1: at rest for a period of time where you can
[35:57] Speaker 1: actually make the measurement because probably the beginning they're a
[36:00] Speaker 1: bit nervous or whatever, exactly maybe the heart's raising, et cetera,
[36:03] Speaker 1: because that was the case in my case, and perhaps
[36:07] Speaker 1: at the end they might be nearly asleep, which might
[36:10] Speaker 1: not be where you want them to be either. And
[36:13] Speaker 1: what do you do is you some places there's a mask.
[36:15] Speaker 1: I've done it before with masks, but in your shop,
[36:18] Speaker 1: in your clinic, you put a like a plastic cover over.
[36:22] Speaker 2: Yeah, we use what's called a ventilated hood, right, that's
[36:25] Speaker 2: ideally what should be used, because if you've got a
[36:30] Speaker 2: tube stuck in your mouth or a mask over your
[36:32] Speaker 2: mouth and nose, it just provides again a level of
[36:37] Speaker 2: anxiety that can raise rama and.
[36:41] Speaker 1: Give you a force reading. Yeah. Yeah, And I have
[36:45] Speaker 1: to say your one was actually is different the last
[36:48] Speaker 1: one I did. I remember they put it a thing
[36:51] Speaker 1: in my mouth and I didn't. I wasn't comfortable or
[36:54] Speaker 1: I was uncomfortable. There was a mask over, but there
[36:56] Speaker 1: was something insil my mouth and I did that and
[36:59] Speaker 1: it was it was not unpleasant, it's nothing, it's just
[37:03] Speaker 1: I think it was fifteen minutes pretty much laying still
[37:05] Speaker 1: on the I was actually laying on a flatbed. And
[37:09] Speaker 1: once again you're fully clothed, there's no dramas, et cetera.
[37:13] Speaker 1: And then the result that you get tells me how
[37:17] Speaker 1: many calories I need in a twenty four hour period,
[37:19] Speaker 1: I presume to maintain just rested metabolic tablat exactly to
[37:27] Speaker 1: stay where you are. So mine was twenty and two
[37:30] Speaker 1: hundred or something like that.
[37:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, twenty one something something. And interestingly, so that's indirect
[37:37] Speaker 2: calorimetry is what that's termed. You can move into a
[37:43] Speaker 2: very complex research type facility and do it in a
[37:48] Speaker 2: room where they measure you know, total body energy expenditure
[37:53] Speaker 2: and you know the whole room is enclosed, and that's
[37:56] Speaker 2: a direct calorimetry, but very difficult process. This one obviously
[38:01] Speaker 2: makes it much easier, but you can also estimate it
[38:04] Speaker 2: and you know, jump on your on the webon. There's
[38:09] Speaker 2: lots of RMR calculators. One that is based on age,
[38:14] Speaker 2: weight and height is Harris Benedict equation.
[38:19] Speaker 1: It's might usually we see.
[38:23] Speaker 2: An underestimation of anywhere from one hundred to three hundred calories.
[38:28] Speaker 1: Per twenty four hours. Yep.
[38:30] Speaker 2: We also estimate it based on your DEXA scan. DEXA
[38:35] Speaker 2: gives you what we term fat free mass as well,
[38:39] Speaker 2: the weight of all the tissues in your body except fat.
[38:42] Speaker 2: And cunning Ham's equation is very simple. It's just twenty
[38:46] Speaker 2: two point five times fat free mass plus five hundred and.
[38:52] Speaker 1: Does a fat free mass include bone?
[38:54] Speaker 2: Yes, right, so all your metabolically active tissue is what
[38:58] Speaker 2: comes under fat free mass. And your two measures were
[39:03] Speaker 2: within four percent of one another.
[39:04] Speaker 1: This is pretty sort of shows.
[39:07] Speaker 2: So Cunningham's equation. If you've got a DEXA scan and
[39:10] Speaker 2: you want to know RMR, and you you know you
[39:12] Speaker 2: don't want to an indirect calorimetry test for one reason
[39:17] Speaker 2: or another, then estimating it is a great idea.
[39:20] Speaker 1: So, and what you're saying here is, in this case,
[39:22] Speaker 1: mine the various tests, whether it be using Cunningham's algorithm,
[39:28] Speaker 1: relative to what was done on my DECKSA compared to
[39:31] Speaker 1: what was done in the ROMR, there's quite a good
[39:34] Speaker 1: degree of confidence that the both measures are equally accurate
[39:40] Speaker 1: or equipped. Yes, that's right. So twenty one hundred and
[39:43] Speaker 1: whatever it was for mine basically means at a minimum,
[39:46] Speaker 1: I've got to have twenty one hundred calories a day.
[39:48] Speaker 1: But there's some assumptions that should get to that sustain
[39:51] Speaker 1: your life at rest correct. So we've got to have
[39:54] Speaker 1: some assumptions there. So you know, I do get up
[39:55] Speaker 1: in the morning, I do walk to do clean my teeth,
[39:57] Speaker 1: I do eat my lunch, I do go to the
[39:59] Speaker 1: g I do go to work, et cetera, cetera, drive
[40:02] Speaker 1: a car. So there are a number of assumptions that
[40:05] Speaker 1: can be made on top of that. Now, in terms
[40:09] Speaker 1: of usefulness of knowing what my RMR is, which is
[40:14] Speaker 1: my metabolic usage of calories at rest. Can you is
[40:20] Speaker 1: there somewhere we can find some fair assumptions as to
[40:25] Speaker 1: what else I would expend in terms of calories in
[40:27] Speaker 1: the day. Therefore, I can get a measure of how
[40:30] Speaker 1: many calories I should take in in total in a
[40:34] Speaker 1: day to sustain a complete day, a normal complete day
[40:38] Speaker 1: for myself, so that I can work out whether I'm
[40:41] Speaker 1: in calorie deficit, calorie maintenance, or perhaps calorie increases.
[40:49] Speaker 2: No, it's a very good point. I'll refer back to
[40:51] Speaker 2: Angela's study as well. With the SAS soldiers, they are
[40:56] Speaker 2: expending around seven and a half thousand calories per day, right,
[41:00] Speaker 2: they are ingesting four and a half thousand, so they
[41:04] Speaker 2: are still in a significant deficit. In their last week
[41:10] Speaker 2: of training, they drop down to a calorie intake from
[41:13] Speaker 2: four and a half thousand to four hundred and ninety
[41:17] Speaker 2: five calories or four seventy five calories per day.
[41:20] Speaker 1: Board.
[41:21] Speaker 2: Yeahs, they need to stress these guys. Their expenditure is
[41:27] Speaker 2: still over seven thousand, so the deficits enormous. Now in
[41:31] Speaker 2: that three week block they lost four and a half
[41:33] Speaker 2: kilos of fat and three kilos of lean mass. This
[41:37] Speaker 2: is where RMR is useful. In the olden days, you
[41:43] Speaker 2: would get your RMR and you would multiply it by
[41:45] Speaker 2: a factor, a waiting factor from sedentary through to elite.
[41:51] Speaker 2: That waiting factor, I think for sedentry is about one
[41:54] Speaker 2: point two. So RMR times one point two up to
[41:58] Speaker 2: another twenty yeah to RMA times you know, point one
[42:02] Speaker 2: point eight or one point seventy five one point eight,
[42:05] Speaker 2: So it's you know it. And what we've believe is
[42:09] Speaker 2: that you know, those estimations were useful. But if you've
[42:14] Speaker 2: got a bodybuilder who wants to put on lean tissue,
[42:18] Speaker 2: they're going to have to get their RMR, get that number,
[42:23] Speaker 2: multiply it by a certain factor to go, Okay, this
[42:26] Speaker 2: is what I need to increase lean tissue mass.
[42:29] Speaker 1: But we know that.
[42:31] Speaker 2: When they're they're they're eating such a huge amount of food,
[42:35] Speaker 2: which you know might be three and a half to
[42:37] Speaker 2: five thousand calories a day, they are going to put
[42:40] Speaker 2: on fat mass as a result of that. And then
[42:43] Speaker 2: they go through this they're they're stripping sixteen weeks of
[42:48] Speaker 2: you know, prior to competition and try and lose that
[42:51] Speaker 2: fat mass that they put on without while trying to
[42:53] Speaker 2: be muscle protective. So it's a real fine balance between
[42:58] Speaker 2: you've got your RMR, then what do we do? What
[43:03] Speaker 2: do I multiply it by to get into a safe
[43:07] Speaker 2: deficit or a maintenance maintenance, or just to put on
[43:14] Speaker 2: enough lean tissue without compromising fat mass. And you know,
[43:18] Speaker 2: and that's where good physiologists and dietitians particularly can help.
[43:23] Speaker 1: So let's say, let's say, I mean and the big
[43:26] Speaker 1: discussion at the moment, you know, and these and I'm
[43:30] Speaker 1: talking about when I say the big discussion, the more
[43:32] Speaker 1: popular discussion at the moment, and that's amongst the Peter
[43:35] Speaker 1: Tear as Tears Andrew Humans and all that, and Simon
[43:38] Speaker 1: Hill everybody who talks about these sort of things as saying,
[43:41] Speaker 1: in terms of longevity, we need to we need to
[43:45] Speaker 1: have a certain level of muscle mass and strength for
[43:48] Speaker 1: our function functionality. But also because there's a lot of
[43:55] Speaker 1: attention towards the amount of glucoset muscle absorbs or the
[43:58] Speaker 1: muscle users, therefore it sort of helps in relation to
[44:03] Speaker 1: maintenance of your relative amount of glucose in your system,
[44:06] Speaker 1: so you don't sort of fall into these other metabolic
[44:10] Speaker 1: areas like diabetes, et cetera. So it would appear that
[44:14] Speaker 1: a good level of muscle relative to the type of
[44:18] Speaker 1: body top body you have, but a good level of
[44:21] Speaker 1: muscle is an important thing to do. As we get old,
[44:25] Speaker 1: as you mentioned earlier, we start to lose muscle anyway,
[44:28] Speaker 1: so we're sort of fighting against it all the time.
[44:30] Speaker 1: But it does indicate to me that we have to
[44:32] Speaker 1: take in a certain amount of calories way above the
[44:37] Speaker 1: two in my case, twenty one hundred. How do we
[44:42] Speaker 1: work out? And you're a physiologist, but I know it's
[44:47] Speaker 1: much more complicated in this, But how do you sort
[44:50] Speaker 1: of get a sense of ACA. I know what my
[44:52] Speaker 1: ROMR is. I know that I want to let's just
[44:55] Speaker 1: call it maintain my body mass as it is today
[44:59] Speaker 1: because I'm happy with what the dexter showed me relative
[45:02] Speaker 1: to where I want to be. I'm not assuming I
[45:05] Speaker 1: want to put any more muscle back on my left
[45:06] Speaker 1: arm whatever. I'm just saying I'm happy. How do I
[45:09] Speaker 1: work out what my maintenance should be, my maintenance level
[45:12] Speaker 1: of calorie should be.
[45:14] Speaker 2: Unfortunately, trial and error, Yeah, and again this might be
[45:18] Speaker 2: a really good use of Okay, I'm going to I'm
[45:24] Speaker 2: at twenty one hundred. I'm going to ingest twenty nine hundred,
[45:30] Speaker 2: and I'm going to have a thirty forty thirty split
[45:32] Speaker 2: thirty protein, forty carb, thirty fat. And obviously, you know
[45:37] Speaker 2: you can work out your macronutrients and to calculate up
[45:41] Speaker 2: to what those twenty nine hundred calories online.
[45:44] Speaker 1: Anyway, Yeah, that's all very easy.
[45:47] Speaker 2: It sounds complex, but it's actually very easy. And so
[45:53] Speaker 2: I'm at twenty nine hundred. I'm going to do this
[45:55] Speaker 2: for twelve weeks and I'm going to see what happens. Yeah,
[45:59] Speaker 2: and perhaps going on another No, that's what I'm saying.
[46:02] Speaker 2: That's where another scan in twelve weeks time can be
[46:05] Speaker 2: very very educational and about your formally the individual. It
[46:10] Speaker 2: informs you as to you know, you know your expenditure,
[46:15] Speaker 2: you know what you've been doing in the gym. You've
[46:17] Speaker 2: got to you know, you're doing some cardiovascular work, you're
[46:20] Speaker 2: doing a bit of interval training, you're doing your strength
[46:22] Speaker 2: and conditioning work, and you're combining that on twenty nine
[46:25] Speaker 2: hundred calories a day with a thirty forty thirty split.
[46:28] Speaker 2: And I'll go, I was here, you know day one,
[46:33] Speaker 2: where am I after twelve weeks, did that work? Yes
[46:38] Speaker 2: or no? That's that's the answer. It's up to you
[46:42] Speaker 2: if you're going to, you know, visit the Krispy Kreme
[46:48] Speaker 2: shop in the airport every time you go through the airport,
[46:51] Speaker 2: and it's not going to help. It's not going to work.
[46:54] Speaker 2: You have to be disciplined, and why have another dexascan
[47:01] Speaker 2: spend more money if you you know, it's a it's
[47:05] Speaker 2: an individual informative experiment on oneself that can be incredibly useful.
[47:13] Speaker 2: And the positive or the negative is either way. It's informative. So,
[47:23] Speaker 2: wow I put on three kilos of muscle in twelve weeks,
[47:26] Speaker 2: or wow I put on three kilos of fat and
[47:30] Speaker 2: no muscle, So what's that doing?
[47:32] Speaker 1: Well?
[47:32] Speaker 2: It's informing you that your strength and conditioning program wasn't
[47:35] Speaker 2: quite right. Were you eating sufficient protein at thirty percent?
[47:39] Speaker 2: Was that at one point five grams pikilo? Should I
[47:42] Speaker 2: push it to two kilos two grams of pekilo for
[47:45] Speaker 2: the for the next three months. You know, there's lots
[47:48] Speaker 2: of things that you can tease out in order for
[47:51] Speaker 2: you to work out what's what's right.
[47:53] Speaker 1: I'll refer back.
[47:54] Speaker 2: To a really interesting study by pretty much the father
[47:59] Speaker 2: of you know, the metabolic work, Ansel Keys. He looked
[48:03] Speaker 2: at conscientious objectives during the war or post war actually,
[48:08] Speaker 2: and it's called the Minnesota Experiment, measured their metabolic rate,
[48:13] Speaker 2: starved them to fifteen hundred calories per day, so not
[48:18] Speaker 2: what you know, you and I would consider a starvation diet.
[48:23] Speaker 2: Some people recommend five hundred, you know, some people eight hundred.
[48:28] Speaker 1: I know.
[48:29] Speaker 2: Some people say, you know, would put all women across
[48:32] Speaker 2: the world on twelve hundred and that will make you
[48:35] Speaker 2: all lose fat. But for this instance, it was twelve
[48:38] Speaker 2: fifteen hundred calories per day. And the very interesting part
[48:43] Speaker 2: was was their metabolism dropped from zero to you know,
[48:48] Speaker 2: from that starting point over that twelve week period. So
[48:52] Speaker 2: starving yourself has an impact on metabolic rate. And if
[48:59] Speaker 2: you're met rate is twenty one hundred and your goal
[49:03] Speaker 2: is to put on muscle, eating twenty one hundred calories
[49:05] Speaker 2: a day ain't going to help. So you really do
[49:10] Speaker 2: have to be disciplined, and you really have to be
[49:13] Speaker 2: prepared to measure and manage you what you eat. And
[49:18] Speaker 2: I think that's the key.
[49:20] Speaker 1: And as I said, you can't what you can't measure
[49:21] Speaker 1: you can't manage. And this is all about measurement, by
[49:24] Speaker 1: the way, I mean. It is maybe your business measure up,
[49:26] Speaker 1: but this for me anyway, it's all about measurement, and
[49:29] Speaker 1: which is why I did the test in March, and
[49:32] Speaker 1: then I did the test again more recently in September,
[49:36] Speaker 1: and I have put on I was seventy eight kilos
[49:40] Speaker 1: when I did the test in March, and I maybe
[49:43] Speaker 1: four and a bit kilos for the test last week
[49:46] Speaker 1: in September, So I put on six kilos of weight.
[49:49] Speaker 1: And what's interesting is the distribution of that weight between
[49:54] Speaker 1: muscle and fat. And I did take a lot, eat
[49:59] Speaker 1: a lot more calor, and I did train a lot
[50:01] Speaker 1: harder than I had been prior to the tests I
[50:04] Speaker 1: did in March, because I couldn't.
[50:06] Speaker 2: I couldn't try. What you said is a classic example,
[50:09] Speaker 2: and that's why I did it. Like this, So you
[50:11] Speaker 2: put on two kilos of fat mass, and you put
[50:14] Speaker 2: on two point three kilos of lean tissue yep, and
[50:19] Speaker 2: your body fat percentage, as much as I disliked that measure,
[50:22] Speaker 2: went from fifteen point eight to seventeen point four. But
[50:28] Speaker 2: now you've got your metabolic rate at around twenty one.
[50:31] Speaker 2: You knew what you were eating over that time, you
[50:33] Speaker 2: can go and do a retrospective food diary on what
[50:35] Speaker 2: you were eating over that period and you'll go, ah, Okay,
[50:39] Speaker 2: I now know why I perhaps put on that two
[50:42] Speaker 2: kilos of fat mass.
[50:44] Speaker 1: Yep. And I think and I think that I could
[50:49] Speaker 1: have eaten more protein. I could have taken in more
[50:52] Speaker 1: protein because I tended to because I was just training
[50:55] Speaker 1: really hard and I just wanted to see what the
[50:57] Speaker 1: outcome was. I didn't really care. I was and because
[51:00] Speaker 1: I knew I was going to have this other test,
[51:02] Speaker 1: and I specifically made sure I did it with your
[51:04] Speaker 1: your shop.
[51:04] Speaker 2: Again, Well, that's a very good to make sure that
[51:07] Speaker 2: I had. If you're going to have the dexter scared,
[51:09] Speaker 2: I don't care where you get it done, but please
[51:13] Speaker 2: get it done on the same machine.
[51:14] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[51:15] Speaker 2: The variability between dexas is enormous.
[51:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I have. I've actually checked this. I
[51:20] Speaker 1: had one done and bond done in Double Bay, in
[51:24] Speaker 1: the one in New South Thide Road, and then a
[51:26] Speaker 1: day three days later went and did the one in
[51:28] Speaker 1: Bonna Junction and I compared the two and because and
[51:31] Speaker 1: the only reason I did this because a guy called
[51:33] Speaker 1: Brendan Sullivan, who's the fight dietitian for the UFC, told
[51:36] Speaker 1: me to try it out. Let's just try the two.
[51:39] Speaker 1: To do the two. He actually sent me to see
[51:41] Speaker 1: you more recently. He suggested I go and see you
[51:44] Speaker 1: because the Bonner Bon junction is not there anymore. But
[51:46] Speaker 1: we did, and there was there was a definite difference,
[51:49] Speaker 1: and in fact, I looked like it was a lot
[51:51] Speaker 1: better on the Bono Junction one than it was in
[51:53] Speaker 1: the Double Bay one in terms of fat percentage. But
[51:55] Speaker 1: it was only eleven percent. It wasn't much because I've
[51:58] Speaker 1: been training really, really hard. Yeah, And it's interesting if
[52:02] Speaker 1: I go back then, I look at the amount of
[52:03] Speaker 1: lean muscle I had that when I was this is
[52:06] Speaker 1: quite a few years ago, was much much more lean
[52:10] Speaker 1: muscle relative the amount I was doing a different type
[52:13] Speaker 1: of training though, But I did have a lot more
[52:15] Speaker 1: lean muscle, and I was probably slightly heavier. But it's
[52:20] Speaker 1: and I think the point of all this, and the
[52:22] Speaker 1: point about today's podcast too, By the way, what I
[52:24] Speaker 1: want to say to people is that I've been doing
[52:26] Speaker 1: these things for a long time. But the point of
[52:27] Speaker 1: what I'm saying to do in terms of longevity and
[52:30] Speaker 1: health span. Is if you want to have these things
[52:34] Speaker 1: in your back pocket, that is a better longer life.
[52:37] Speaker 1: You've got to be able to measure stuff, and you've
[52:39] Speaker 1: got to be prepared to spend a few butt dollars.
[52:40] Speaker 1: It's not expensive, by the way. DEX is not expensive,
[52:43] Speaker 1: RMA is not expensive. Via two max is not expensive
[52:46] Speaker 1: relative to what you find out. We're not talking about
[52:48] Speaker 1: thousands of dollars here. This is not crazy stuff. So
[52:52] Speaker 1: and I think measurement. If you can't measure, you can't manage,
[52:55] Speaker 1: and the rest of menabolic rate test gives you gives
[52:59] Speaker 1: to me anyway, the sort of the last that's where
[53:04] Speaker 1: I definitely must have that because I've got to be
[53:05] Speaker 1: able to survive, and then I can make all assumptions
[53:08] Speaker 1: I want to about how much act how active I
[53:11] Speaker 1: am in a daytime, and not tip of that matter,
[53:13] Speaker 1: I guess the relative to the other assumptions about how
[53:17] Speaker 1: much A're going to take in. One of the things
[53:19] Speaker 1: that came out of all this two, by the way,
[53:21] Speaker 1: was how much I don't know if it was on
[53:23] Speaker 1: from the decks orders from there, mr Rama, how much
[53:28] Speaker 1: fat I burn at rest relative to carbohydrates. And I
[53:33] Speaker 1: think my test that I burn minds one hundred percent
[53:36] Speaker 1: of my calorific take intake or out take, I should
[53:41] Speaker 1: say or use at rest is from fat. Now what
[53:45] Speaker 1: does that mean?
[53:46] Speaker 2: So that's looking at a respiratory quotient CO two production
[53:49] Speaker 2: over two. And this one is a little bit of
[53:55] Speaker 2: a bit of a gripe with me because you'll get
[54:01] Speaker 2: a little some unscrupulous members of or groups saying we
[54:09] Speaker 2: can we can tell you whether you're burning carbs or fat.
[54:12] Speaker 2: And you know, if you're burning if you're if you're
[54:16] Speaker 2: burning carbs, then we'll do this for you and all
[54:19] Speaker 2: that sort of stuff, And I can manipulate.
[54:21] Speaker 1: Your respiratory quotient very easily.
[54:24] Speaker 2: For you know, if you to coffee and something to
[54:26] Speaker 2: eat prior to your RMR test, your r Q will
[54:30] Speaker 2: be up at point nine or one or something, so
[54:33] Speaker 2: you'll be burning carbs. And then you know, I could go, oh,
[54:37] Speaker 2: you know, Mark, you're burning carbs. Here's a four thousand
[54:40] Speaker 2: dollar diet and an exercise program and whatever. You know,
[54:43] Speaker 2: So consumers be careful, very careful. Also, you only need
[54:47] Speaker 2: one RMR test. You might have another one in ten
[54:50] Speaker 2: years time because you know, God forbid you you do
[54:54] Speaker 2: lose lean tissue over that period of time, your resting
[54:57] Speaker 2: metabolic rate is going to decrease because it's tied to
[55:00] Speaker 2: lean tissue mass. It's part of that group of tissues
[55:04] Speaker 2: that is active and requires calories at rest.
[55:10] Speaker 1: So, yeah, the ARQ.
[55:12] Speaker 2: If you're burning fats, well that's good. That means that
[55:16] Speaker 2: you followed the instructions for the test. No food or
[55:20] Speaker 2: exercise for twenty four hours, well for at least twelve
[55:23] Speaker 2: hours prior. You know, you come in, you're rested. You know,
[55:28] Speaker 2: we do that rest period beforehand in the morning too. Yeah, yeah,
[55:32] Speaker 2: got to do it in the morning. No point doing
[55:34] Speaker 2: it in the afternoon. It's you know, if you do
[55:38] Speaker 2: do it in the afternoon, at least have at least
[55:41] Speaker 2: an hour's rest beforehand or something so you can, you know,
[55:46] Speaker 2: at least reach some form of baseline. So these are
[55:49] Speaker 2: all very important factors. Whether you're burning carbs or fat
[55:53] Speaker 2: is from our perspective, more important to know that, no,
[55:57] Speaker 2: this person really didn't follow the instructions well for the test,
[56:02] Speaker 2: we would just say, look that one's not great, come
[56:06] Speaker 2: in again and just follow what you should be doing
[56:09] Speaker 2: this time and.
[56:11] Speaker 1: Repeat it. So can we move on to the VIA
[56:14] Speaker 1: to max now, So, Peter, he has always VIA to
[56:17] Speaker 1: max and by the way, to always about his VIO
[56:20] Speaker 1: to max results and sort of there's I guess there's
[56:24] Speaker 1: a level of fitness there with him that maybe maybe
[56:30] Speaker 1: most people of his age probably can't attain, because I'd
[56:33] Speaker 1: say he's somewhat obsessed about the whole thing. Was that's
[56:37] Speaker 1: his game. He's very obsessed with his level of fitness,
[56:40] Speaker 1: and he's very and I dare say he's very good
[56:43] Speaker 1: on a bike too, which is the test he does
[56:45] Speaker 1: it on and be interested to see what happened if
[56:47] Speaker 1: he did it on a running machine.
[56:48] Speaker 2: Yeah, if I could do one on a surfboard, I'd
[56:50] Speaker 2: be happy, Yes, I actually, so explain to me, please,
[56:57] Speaker 2: what VIA two max means?
[56:58] Speaker 1: I mean, why is it as a trick name VO
[57:00] Speaker 1: to maxim What does it all mean?
[57:02] Speaker 2: It's really just the volume of oxygen that you consume
[57:05] Speaker 2: at peak, at your peak, so at your maximum maximum
[57:09] Speaker 2: evolutional exhaustion, maximum heart rate, well at exhaustion, that's the
[57:16] Speaker 2: amount of oxygen that you can actually utilize pecilogram per
[57:19] Speaker 2: minute mills peculo per minute at that you're consuming that
[57:25] Speaker 2: your body is utilizing at the very top or peak.
[57:29] Speaker 1: Of your your test. How do you know when you
[57:32] Speaker 1: got me there? How do you know if I am
[57:34] Speaker 1: at my eggs as well?
[57:35] Speaker 2: Because you usually you would you would yell out stop
[57:37] Speaker 2: or grab hold the side of the treebill and you
[57:41] Speaker 2: would we'd grab hold of you and and slow down
[57:45] Speaker 2: the belt and then you know you've just you're tapping out.
[57:48] Speaker 1: You're done time.
[57:50] Speaker 2: I mean, look, it's usually we will try and get
[57:54] Speaker 2: you to max in eight to ten minutes. We'd start
[57:58] Speaker 2: with a four point five k in our walk on
[58:01] Speaker 2: the treadmill, just as a warm up. We'll take the
[58:04] Speaker 2: belt up till a minute, which for a minute about
[58:07] Speaker 2: four minutes, about four minutes of four point five year.
[58:10] Speaker 2: Then we'll take the belt up to about seven seven
[58:13] Speaker 2: and a half incline. We'll start it. We'll start it
[58:16] Speaker 2: at one percent, so you'll be doing that walk at
[58:18] Speaker 2: about one percent, and then what we'll do is will
[58:22] Speaker 2: keep speed constant and increase grade every minute until you
[58:26] Speaker 2: tap out.
[58:26] Speaker 1: Right, So just to get it clear, So the actual
[58:30] Speaker 1: activity that I'm doing, if I'm doing on a running machine,
[58:34] Speaker 1: which in my case, I we'll be doing with you
[58:36] Speaker 1: guys when I come back. So I start off for
[58:39] Speaker 1: one percent and then and I started for four and
[58:42] Speaker 1: a half, or do that for a couple of minutes,
[58:43] Speaker 1: four minutes. Then you start to increase the grade and
[58:47] Speaker 1: you also increase the speed up to seven to eight
[58:50] Speaker 1: kilumbus prow right and just if you're.
[58:53] Speaker 2: If you're not a confident runner, we'll probably keep it
[58:57] Speaker 2: at around seven and a half. If you you know,
[59:00] Speaker 2: and an elite athlete, you know you might need to
[59:02] Speaker 2: belt a ten k nour right in order for them
[59:06] Speaker 2: to really hit polutional exhaustion.
[59:09] Speaker 1: Then and you know that, and you're just going to
[59:11] Speaker 1: keep the incline going up until every minute I'm running
[59:14] Speaker 1: up a hill correct and then you'll know pretty much
[59:20] Speaker 1: I will tap out, you know when I'm done, because
[59:24] Speaker 1: I'll know when i'm doing I've cooked, yeah, between eight
[59:27] Speaker 1: and ten minutes now we're talking about.
[59:28] Speaker 2: And you'll see it on the graph too, you know,
[59:29] Speaker 2: you'll see YOU two going up and CO two and
[59:33] Speaker 2: you'll you'll see it plateau and you'll know that's the
[59:36] Speaker 2: end of the test.
[59:37] Speaker 1: So that's what you'll know, because I wouldn't know, but
[59:39] Speaker 1: I will know snow from how I'm feeling. You know,
[59:42] Speaker 1: I'll just know I can't take any more oxygen in
[59:45] Speaker 1: relative to the amount of common doox, so I'm expelling.
[59:47] Speaker 1: I just I just can't keep refilling my oxygen. Right,
[59:50] Speaker 1: That's sort of really what we're talking about here. But
[59:53] Speaker 1: then you're going to have a mask on me which
[59:55] Speaker 1: will be measuring this actually accurately saying Mark, you're I'm
[1:00:00] Speaker 1: not sucking enough oxygen in oxygen in relatives the amount
[1:00:03] Speaker 1: of carbon oxygen you're expelling.
[1:00:05] Speaker 2: That's pretty much it. Yeah, when we'll measure all that,
[1:00:08] Speaker 2: provide that feedback at the end of the test. Same
[1:00:11] Speaker 2: with on the bike. We'll have you at a set cadence.
[1:00:15] Speaker 2: You know, for someone like me, it might be sixty.
[1:00:18] Speaker 2: For someone who's an experienced rider, it might be seventy
[1:00:22] Speaker 2: or eighty seventy kilosaw No, just their their their cadence,
[1:00:27] Speaker 2: so they turn up the peoples.
[1:00:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, and then what per minute?
[1:00:32] Speaker 2: And then well we'll increase the wattage on the bike.
[1:00:38] Speaker 2: I think about twenty five what's every minute?
[1:00:41] Speaker 1: So you know, a really we.
[1:00:45] Speaker 2: Might start a really elite level cyclist might start at
[1:00:48] Speaker 2: one hundred what's and you know, and then we'll start
[1:00:53] Speaker 2: ramping it up from there minutes. Yeah, you really want
[1:00:57] Speaker 2: to try and knock them over in about eight to
[1:00:59] Speaker 2: ten minutes for a max.
[1:01:00] Speaker 1: Test, right, so they're sort of doing a couple of
[1:01:02] Speaker 1: hundred what's Yeah, that's pretty hectics, pretty hard. That's hectic,
[1:01:08] Speaker 1: especially for any length of time. Not that I'm an
[1:01:12] Speaker 1: expert on bikes, but I do get on the ASSLD
[1:01:15] Speaker 1: bike and I know that you're talking about some big
[1:01:19] Speaker 1: numbers there. So if we so, okay, So now the
[1:01:23] Speaker 1: V two max then says to me, and so I'll
[1:01:25] Speaker 1: be oh, no, I'm exhausted after the eight or ten minutes,
[1:01:27] Speaker 1: and then you'll make a measurement. So what does the
[1:01:31] Speaker 1: measurement tell me? It just tells me, I'm to me,
[1:01:34] Speaker 1: it just means I'm exhausted. But what does it tell you?
[1:01:36] Speaker 2: Like, that's a very good question. It gives you a number. Yeah,
[1:01:40] Speaker 2: and that number if we refer to peter a tear
[1:01:45] Speaker 2: peter A tear users, I think I've got that paper
[1:01:48] Speaker 2: for you. There. They've got a table they will compare
[1:01:52] Speaker 2: your result versus a cohort. Yeah, a cohort. See where
[1:01:56] Speaker 2: you sit with that? And then his goal is to
[1:02:00] Speaker 2: get you to you're did you say sixty sixty eight?
[1:02:09] Speaker 2: So to get you at least two decades lower and
[1:02:13] Speaker 2: then up into the elite, into the elite category, so
[1:02:16] Speaker 2: that he wants to see a massive shift in your
[1:02:20] Speaker 2: VO two over the course of his program training, et cetera,
[1:02:24] Speaker 2: et cetera. So really, again it comes down to the individual. Yes,
[1:02:29] Speaker 2: you're plotted on a table is to see where you are,
[1:02:32] Speaker 2: to give you a comparative analysis of whether you're low,
[1:02:35] Speaker 2: you know, or poor relative to.
[1:02:38] Speaker 1: Your co word correct correct? And who does this? Who
[1:02:43] Speaker 1: produces the coward analysis?
[1:02:45] Speaker 2: Well, there's lots of different tables and researchers that have
[1:02:50] Speaker 2: produced these over the years.
[1:02:52] Speaker 1: It's been done. It's something that is sort of available
[1:02:55] Speaker 1: to everybody to look at.
[1:02:56] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's freely available. I've put that. I've sent
[1:03:00] Speaker 2: that one to you.
[1:03:01] Speaker 1: So I've heard him talk about that. Yeah, the crew
[1:03:04] Speaker 1: can have a what do you what do you use?
[1:03:06] Speaker 1: What do you use?
[1:03:07] Speaker 2: Well, we use that same table finally enough. Yeah, so
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: that paper is the association of cardio respiratory fitness with
[1:03:16] Speaker 2: long term mortality among adults undergoing exercise treadmill testing.
[1:03:22] Speaker 1: Right, So they're basically saying there's a it's not a
[1:03:26] Speaker 1: causation thing, but it's a correlation. They're saying mortality from
[1:03:32] Speaker 1: more causes can be correlated to VO two max.
[1:03:40] Speaker 2: Well to your and you'll read you have to be
[1:03:43] Speaker 2: careful there because it really they in a lot of
[1:03:49] Speaker 2: these studies they're actually not doing a VO two max.
[1:03:52] Speaker 2: They're actually looking at fitness as the variable measure it
[1:03:57] Speaker 2: has to Yeah, so just speed on the treadmill and
[1:04:02] Speaker 2: grade and time on underload or no measurement of yeah,
[1:04:08] Speaker 2: carbondox exactly. They did do some measures in some of
[1:04:12] Speaker 2: these papers, hence producing that table for comparative analysis. That
[1:04:16] Speaker 2: was one hundred and twenty two thousand people involved in
[1:04:19] Speaker 2: that study, so it's a massive cohort. There's another one
[1:04:22] Speaker 2: that I've given you that's seven hundred and fifty thousand people.
[1:04:27] Speaker 2: And again a lot of these tests are done on fitness,
[1:04:31] Speaker 2: and I think it's a very good point to mention
[1:04:34] Speaker 2: actually because you might be listening to this in Mare
[1:04:42] Speaker 2: and you ain't going to get a VO two max
[1:04:44] Speaker 2: test done there, But there's nothing stopping you going to
[1:04:49] Speaker 2: the oval and doing a beep test. Yeah, doing your
[1:04:54] Speaker 2: own beat tests download the app, or walking for eight
[1:04:57] Speaker 2: minutes for fifteen hundred meters worked out out around the track.
[1:05:01] Speaker 2: How long did that take?
[1:05:02] Speaker 1: You?
[1:05:03] Speaker 2: Then go on to your own strength and conditioning program
[1:05:06] Speaker 2: or whatever someone gives you, and then retest did your
[1:05:10] Speaker 2: time decrease.
[1:05:12] Speaker 1: If it did, hey you got fitter.
[1:05:14] Speaker 2: You're doing well. You can do it on a treadmill
[1:05:20] Speaker 2: in the gym. You might not want to go to
[1:05:23] Speaker 2: max you know, you might want to get a doctor
[1:05:25] Speaker 2: check first, but you can run on the treadmill at
[1:05:31] Speaker 2: the gym.
[1:05:31] Speaker 1: Increase the grade.
[1:05:33] Speaker 2: And you'll go, Okay, I lasted eight minutes and I
[1:05:38] Speaker 2: got to I kept my speed at seven and a
[1:05:41] Speaker 2: half k an hour. I got to a ten percent
[1:05:44] Speaker 2: grade and I was like, yeah, that's enough, And that
[1:05:48] Speaker 2: lasted X amount of time. You might repeat that after
[1:05:51] Speaker 2: your program and you've gone past that, You've improved, you
[1:05:55] Speaker 2: have got fitter, you have improved your health span. They're
[1:05:59] Speaker 2: very You don't need to do a lot of huffing
[1:06:02] Speaker 2: and puffing tests as VO two is known. If you
[1:06:07] Speaker 2: want to measure and manage, sure, do the test and
[1:06:12] Speaker 2: get your number in mills peculogram permitt it and compare
[1:06:16] Speaker 2: that to the normative data. See where you are. There's
[1:06:18] Speaker 2: a lot of people that want to do that. I
[1:06:20] Speaker 2: get that. That's why we offer that service.
[1:06:23] Speaker 1: Just so I can understand, though, Jared so vo VO
[1:06:27] Speaker 1: two max means the volume of oxygen I am consuming
[1:06:35] Speaker 1: at my it's not my maximum heart rate, but at exhaustion,
[1:06:39] Speaker 1: at maximum, my maximum output. That's what I call it max.
[1:06:44] Speaker 1: So they want to see how much oxygen I am
[1:06:47] Speaker 1: consuming at that point. It's a marker. It's just a marker, correct,
[1:06:51] Speaker 1: and but it's one marker.
[1:06:54] Speaker 2: You know. You might have a race car and that
[1:06:57] Speaker 2: you build that race car. That race car has got
[1:06:59] Speaker 2: an engine, But is that engine good enough to do
[1:07:04] Speaker 2: the Bathurst race? No, because you need fuel efficiency, you
[1:07:09] Speaker 2: need good tires, you need all sorts of stuff. Strongly
[1:07:14] Speaker 2: are the factors that are going to help that car
[1:07:18] Speaker 2: or engine get around the track to compete at Bathurst.
[1:07:22] Speaker 2: It's the same with fitness. Your VO two is one
[1:07:26] Speaker 2: variable and it's a number, and you compare yourself with
[1:07:29] Speaker 2: the normative data and you can go, Okay, I'm at
[1:07:34] Speaker 2: fifty meals per kilogram permitted or I'm at twenty five.
[1:07:38] Speaker 2: I need to I want to see that increase in
[1:07:41] Speaker 2: the next year to thirty five or forty and that's
[1:07:45] Speaker 2: the part that's that's the start of your journey. Running, economy,
[1:07:50] Speaker 2: strength and conditioning just a few things that are also
[1:07:56] Speaker 2: going to help improve your performance on the treadmill or
[1:08:00] Speaker 2: with your fitness as well. So there are lots of
[1:08:03] Speaker 2: variables involved in fitness and in improving your health, wellness, longevity,
[1:08:13] Speaker 2: health span, not just VO two.
[1:08:16] Speaker 1: So but it'd be fair to say, then if you
[1:08:20] Speaker 1: want to improve something, just by definition and instinct, that
[1:08:24] Speaker 1: you need to be able to measure something. Because improve
[1:08:26] Speaker 1: you have to say, well, from one to what or
[1:08:29] Speaker 1: from one might ago the other directions to it might
[1:08:31] Speaker 1: be not improving when we're going backwards. So measurements really important.
[1:08:34] Speaker 2: I think it's in our nature to measure things. Yeah,
[1:08:36] Speaker 2: and that's why people come up with these weird and wonderful,
[1:08:40] Speaker 2: you know, contraptions like DEXA, like a metabolic cart and
[1:08:45] Speaker 2: to measure RMR and a metabolic cart to measure VO
[1:08:49] Speaker 2: two max. Because we're inquisitive, we want we want a number,
[1:08:54] Speaker 2: we want to know, and I think over all it
[1:09:00] Speaker 2: is important. But if you are not in a position
[1:09:08] Speaker 2: to get those tests done, there is always something that
[1:09:11] Speaker 2: you can do that might be as simple as taking
[1:09:16] Speaker 2: a tape measure and putting it around your belly button
[1:09:18] Speaker 2: and going, okay, I'm here on the start of my journey.
[1:09:21] Speaker 2: It's reading one hundred and two. I want to get
[1:09:24] Speaker 2: it down to ninety.
[1:09:25] Speaker 1: Let's see where I go again. Measure. It's a measurement.
[1:09:28] Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. I think what you're saying that, it
[1:09:30] Speaker 1: doesn't matter how you measure with you under it I've
[1:09:33] Speaker 1: gone or done, but measure correct and then have a baseline.
[1:09:37] Speaker 1: And I think today's discussion with you, from my point
[1:09:40] Speaker 1: of view at least and for project one hundred, is
[1:09:42] Speaker 1: about the importance of baselines and having a starting point
[1:09:46] Speaker 1: and seeing where you're going to do. They're absolutely crucial. Yeah,
[1:09:51] Speaker 1: in another points going well that's okay, you know whatever,
[1:09:54] Speaker 1: because you're not going to achieve anything. No, you need
[1:09:57] Speaker 1: and you need a period. You need a number of
[1:10:00] Speaker 1: periods like you don't need so not any should you
[1:10:02] Speaker 1: have a measurement or based on sam you need a
[1:10:04] Speaker 1: number of periods between the next time you take the measurement.
[1:10:07] Speaker 1: So and that usually should have some relationship to the
[1:10:12] Speaker 1: cadence of those things you do to make the change.
[1:10:14] Speaker 1: So the things you do to change might be what
[1:10:16] Speaker 1: you're eating, and it might be what you're doing like
[1:10:19] Speaker 1: in an in terms of activity, so you need you
[1:10:23] Speaker 1: need to have some rhythm around that, and that usually comes.
[1:10:26] Speaker 1: Rhythm is about periods, number of a periods you do something,
[1:10:29] Speaker 1: just like music, it has a rhythm. It's a number
[1:10:31] Speaker 1: of periods. And in a song, as you know, you
[1:10:34] Speaker 1: know two four or four six or five eight, whatever,
[1:10:39] Speaker 1: there's a period, there is a cadence. And again it's
[1:10:42] Speaker 1: about measurement, you know, I've got to be able to
[1:10:44] Speaker 1: measure these things. So and I think one of the
[1:10:47] Speaker 1: things I wanted to get across from today, and only
[1:10:50] Speaker 1: because I've never really thought about it too much other
[1:10:53] Speaker 1: than anecdotally from what my experience was in the past
[1:10:56] Speaker 1: and now as a result of there being a lot
[1:10:58] Speaker 1: more discussion and narrative around this stuff, why it was
[1:11:01] Speaker 1: important to have someone like you to come in to
[1:11:03] Speaker 1: explain actually these things that I've sort of been doing,
[1:11:06] Speaker 1: but I didn't really know why I was doing it
[1:11:08] Speaker 1: other than other than I knew that it was a
[1:11:10] Speaker 1: good idea measurement in terms of getting outcomes or knowing
[1:11:17] Speaker 1: how you got to that outcome and whether it was
[1:11:18] Speaker 1: a good outcome or a bad outcome or not such
[1:11:20] Speaker 1: a good outcome is critical to better health span. You know,
[1:11:26] Speaker 1: we know, in other words, we know what we're doing.
[1:11:29] Speaker 1: It's more let's call it much more scientific. It's not anecdotal,
[1:11:33] Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, and that's your game. That's what you
[1:11:36] Speaker 1: guys do at measure up anyway.
[1:11:38] Speaker 2: Yeah, you measure and manage and you know, and from
[1:11:42] Speaker 2: a psychological perspective, give yourself a pat on the back
[1:11:46] Speaker 2: once at a while, you know, wow, you've done well.
[1:11:51] Speaker 2: Fat loss, muscle gain, improving fitness. They're not easy.
[1:11:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, and.
[1:12:00] Speaker 2: You know you are entitled to have a smile on
[1:12:04] Speaker 2: your face and give yourself a pat on the back
[1:12:05] Speaker 2: and go, well, I've done bloody well, this is great.
[1:12:09] Speaker 2: And it's much easier to acknowledge that and recognize that
[1:12:15] Speaker 2: as we know with a number.
[1:12:17] Speaker 1: When should we give ourselves an upper cut though, let's
[1:12:19] Speaker 1: say my percentage of fat on my life. That's easy.
[1:12:25] Speaker 2: If you're if you're training and you're doing you feel
[1:12:29] Speaker 2: that you're doing something that should make a difference, that
[1:12:32] Speaker 2: should change composition, that your baseline should change, and it doesn't,
[1:12:38] Speaker 2: then you know, one, it's an important result, that's and
[1:12:44] Speaker 2: that result should be the uppercut. What the hell am
[1:12:47] Speaker 2: I doing? Have I just literally wasted twelve weeks trying
[1:12:52] Speaker 2: to do this? And you go, you sit back and go, well,
[1:12:54] Speaker 2: nothing's a waste. Did I really apply myself?
[1:12:58] Speaker 1: What do I learn?
[1:13:00] Speaker 2: What have I learned? Where did I go wrong? And
[1:13:04] Speaker 2: then you know, it happens a lot. That happens a lot.
[1:13:08] Speaker 2: I have seen a lot of people come in for
[1:13:11] Speaker 2: pre postexa there is no change, and they look at
[1:13:14] Speaker 2: me and they go and I go, well, you know,
[1:13:18] Speaker 2: when you really think about it, did you really how
[1:13:21] Speaker 2: you know? Was it the eighty twenty rule for you?
[1:13:24] Speaker 2: Were you you know?
[1:13:25] Speaker 1: Or was it the twenty eighty for rule? In other words,
[1:13:27] Speaker 1: eighties the time you did the wrong thing in time
[1:13:30] Speaker 1: to do the right thing. Yeah, because you know, because
[1:13:33] Speaker 1: it's pretty hard to remain disciplined because we're not just
[1:13:35] Speaker 1: talking about twelve week periods here. I'm talking about a
[1:13:37] Speaker 1: lifetime now, right, That's right, And that's a bit different
[1:13:40] Speaker 1: to doing Like when I was fighting, I'd do I'd
[1:13:42] Speaker 1: have a three month training program and then after that
[1:13:46] Speaker 1: I would just go nuts. I wouldn't drink and that
[1:13:48] Speaker 1: whole twelve weeks, But after that, like literally the stupidly
[1:13:53] Speaker 1: that even on the night of fighting, I would have
[1:13:54] Speaker 1: a drink after a couple of beers, until one time
[1:13:58] Speaker 1: I did it, I really passed out because I had
[1:14:00] Speaker 1: I drank the beer and because I had had to
[1:14:04] Speaker 1: weigh in before that night, and then I drank the
[1:14:07] Speaker 1: beer and after I thoughted drinking water, must have been
[1:14:09] Speaker 1: dorada as well, and like I could film my blood
[1:14:13] Speaker 1: draining from my body, and I stopped and I went home.
[1:14:16] Speaker 1: But for twelve week periods, it doesn't really mean that
[1:14:21] Speaker 1: much because you know, you could just literally we are
[1:14:25] Speaker 1: just start back on. It's the start. It's a long game.
[1:14:28] Speaker 1: It really is a long game. You've got to go
[1:14:30] Speaker 1: a long game. But when it comes to longevity and
[1:14:32] Speaker 1: health span, it's about a long game. And don't be
[1:14:35] Speaker 1: too tough on yourself because you do need to have breaks.
[1:14:38] Speaker 1: And you might have a cheat night once a week.
[1:14:42] Speaker 1: You know, it might be pizza or whatever. You know,
[1:14:44] Speaker 1: whatever your cheat is chocolate, whatever your game is ice cream,
[1:14:48] Speaker 1: and you need to know how that, how does that
[1:14:50] Speaker 1: affect me? Over it? And you can take twelve week
[1:14:53] Speaker 1: measurements or six monthly measurements. It doesn't matter what your
[1:14:56] Speaker 1: periods are. But you need to let that inform I
[1:15:00] Speaker 1: guess as to how the cheat nights are working.
[1:15:03] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it should inform you of change over that
[1:15:06] Speaker 2: year and year upon year.
[1:15:08] Speaker 1: You know.
[1:15:10] Speaker 2: I like to use the genes test. Have a look
[1:15:12] Speaker 2: round and look at young kids these days, even in
[1:15:15] Speaker 2: their twenties. You know, they wear jeans and there ain't
[1:15:19] Speaker 2: no backside associated with that individual. They are not active,
[1:15:24] Speaker 2: They're not doing enough. They And that's a really good
[1:15:28] Speaker 2: place to start is muscle. You've got a muscle takes
[1:15:31] Speaker 2: a long time to put on. It's a long game. Yeah,
[1:15:34] Speaker 2: fat might take a long time to take off. It's
[1:15:37] Speaker 2: a long game. Fitness is not something that needs to
[1:15:40] Speaker 2: be you know, smashed out in six or twelve weeks.
[1:15:44] Speaker 2: It's a long game. As you said, this is about
[1:15:47] Speaker 2: improving increasing health span, and you don't need to try
[1:15:53] Speaker 2: and squash it all in twelve weeks.
[1:15:54] Speaker 1: That's what diets are silly because in some respects like
[1:15:58] Speaker 1: crash diets or things like that, where because at the
[1:16:02] Speaker 1: end of the period of the diet, you're more than
[1:16:05] Speaker 1: likely going to go back to what you were before.
[1:16:07] Speaker 1: This is about something that is sustainable, and I think sustainability,
[1:16:12] Speaker 1: especially as you get older. I mean it might things
[1:16:15] Speaker 1: might be better for when you're younger, but as you
[1:16:17] Speaker 1: sort of get over fifty, sustainability is really important, you know,
[1:16:20] Speaker 1: like you've got to be able to do this in
[1:16:23] Speaker 1: a with pleasantry. You don't want to be so damn
[1:16:26] Speaker 1: hard that it's like mentally killing you, like it's giving
[1:16:28] Speaker 1: your brain damage thinking about it, like how this is
[1:16:31] Speaker 1: so disciplined, Like this is so hard, but at the
[1:16:34] Speaker 1: same time it's going to be consistent and consistent and effective.
[1:16:40] Speaker 1: So there's this fine balance between those two things, and
[1:16:44] Speaker 1: each one of us has to find our own individual
[1:16:46] Speaker 1: balance where our brain, you know, we feel okay about
[1:16:50] Speaker 1: what we're doing. It's still enjoyable. It's not that hard,
[1:16:53] Speaker 1: it's not that punishing, but at the same time, it's
[1:16:57] Speaker 1: tough enough that it's getting results. It's a muscle strong
[1:17:01] Speaker 1: and larger will be enough and strong enough, and our
[1:17:06] Speaker 1: heart and lung capacity is giving that good enough, but
[1:17:10] Speaker 1: at the same time not so tough like I would
[1:17:13] Speaker 1: normally do in those twelve weeks periods and that twal
[1:17:15] Speaker 1: week period I would kill myself. Yeah, that's right, but
[1:17:18] Speaker 1: that's not sustainable. No, thirteen weeks on the thirteenth week.
[1:17:22] Speaker 1: I'm just I'm loose, you know, And that's where the
[1:17:26] Speaker 1: injuries happened. Because what happens you drop off and you're
[1:17:29] Speaker 1: doing all the weird shit you shouldn't be doing, and
[1:17:32] Speaker 1: then you get yourself in trouble.
[1:17:33] Speaker 2: I've seen a handful, literally a handful of people that
[1:17:37] Speaker 2: have lost a kilo.
[1:17:38] Speaker 1: A week over twelve weeks. Yeah, it is. It's hard.
[1:17:42] Speaker 2: And those people they come back in in another twelve
[1:17:46] Speaker 2: or twenty four weeks. It's either come back on or
[1:17:51] Speaker 2: it's gone to six weeks, six kilos of fat loss
[1:17:54] Speaker 2: instead of twelve kilos of fat loss. It's hard. So
[1:17:57] Speaker 2: if you some of the most frightened research I think
[1:18:01] Speaker 2: for particularly for people I'm fifty six, is the bed
[1:18:05] Speaker 2: rest studies. Have a type into google bedress studies. Look
[1:18:10] Speaker 2: how quickly you lose lean tissue mass with bedress.
[1:18:14] Speaker 1: It's amazing. And you factor that into your lifestyle. If you're.
[1:18:21] Speaker 2: You know, you don't do any activity, if you don't
[1:18:23] Speaker 2: watch diet, if you.
[1:18:26] Speaker 1: You know.
[1:18:28] Speaker 2: Thinking about longevity and hey, I want to make a change.
[1:18:33] Speaker 2: You know, as soon as you start that activity, lean
[1:18:36] Speaker 2: tissue mass will start to increase. Fat mass will start
[1:18:40] Speaker 2: to drop, you'll start to feel better. You can start
[1:18:44] Speaker 2: to measure and manage some of these things as we've discussed,
[1:18:48] Speaker 2: and you'll improve your health span and move away from
[1:18:54] Speaker 2: you know, the possibility of.
[1:18:58] Speaker 1: A of Yeah, the end.
[1:19:03] Speaker 2: Result that we all don't want, that's to drop off
[1:19:05] Speaker 2: the perch early, that's for sure, or to be God forbid,
[1:19:09] Speaker 2: bed ridden and having to have family look after us.
[1:19:13] Speaker 1: That is for me, that's my mama.
[1:19:15] Speaker 2: I would love to be surfing till I'm ninety and
[1:19:17] Speaker 2: wake up one morning and then just fall off my perch.
[1:19:20] Speaker 2: You know, that's a good health span.
[1:19:23] Speaker 1: Better like be good to actually if you love surfing,
[1:19:25] Speaker 1: like it's your last last wave and you like that's it,
[1:19:29] Speaker 1: you've finished up there on your board. Well, Dr Jared
[1:19:35] Speaker 1: meek him from measure up, which is a place so
[1:19:39] Speaker 1: I've frequented twice. I'm going to go back in come
[1:19:41] Speaker 1: back in six months time because I'm actually going to
[1:19:43] Speaker 1: enter myself in a new program where I'm going to
[1:19:47] Speaker 1: try and add a couple of more kilos of muscle
[1:19:50] Speaker 1: to my whole system. Now from this baseline, I'm going
[1:19:53] Speaker 1: to go I'm going to train pretty hard over the period,
[1:19:58] Speaker 1: but I'm also going to I'm going to do VIA
[1:20:00] Speaker 1: to max with you in a week or two week
[1:20:02] Speaker 1: or two's time, and I'll be interested to see with
[1:20:03] Speaker 1: the outcome of that is. But I'm not going to
[1:20:05] Speaker 1: do so much muscle increase that will affect my ability
[1:20:10] Speaker 1: to train my VIA two max as well. So it's
[1:20:12] Speaker 1: going to be an interesting balance for me to do that.
[1:20:14] Speaker 1: And maybe we can meet up again in six months
[1:20:16] Speaker 1: time when I do my next scands with you and
[1:20:18] Speaker 1: just see what the results are, and I'll actually share
[1:20:22] Speaker 1: with you to what my program looks like. I know
[1:20:25] Speaker 1: you're an ext scise physiologist and you could probably give
[1:20:27] Speaker 1: me a program, but I actually want to I don't
[1:20:30] Speaker 1: want to do it because I want to show to
[1:20:31] Speaker 1: the listeners that you can do your own, because not
[1:20:34] Speaker 1: everybody can afford to go to see an ex scise
[1:20:35] Speaker 1: physiologist or have a personal trainer, etc. I actually want
[1:20:39] Speaker 1: to do this myself based on what I know about
[1:20:43] Speaker 1: what I think I know about as opposed to having
[1:20:46] Speaker 1: to turn up every day to meet the personal trainer,
[1:20:49] Speaker 1: check in every couple of weeks with a physiologist ex
[1:20:52] Speaker 1: those physiologist, because that's not it's not attainable by most people.
[1:20:57] Speaker 1: I mean, you know, if you're a sports percent, I
[1:20:58] Speaker 1: go to see you. I'm a football regul league player,
[1:21:01] Speaker 1: or if I'm a boxer or whatever, I can go
[1:21:03] Speaker 1: and see you and I and I'll do it for
[1:21:04] Speaker 1: twelve week period. But this is about a lifetime, and
[1:21:07] Speaker 1: no one, not many people can commit to that for
[1:21:10] Speaker 1: a lifetime. A lot of people travel, they can't. They
[1:21:12] Speaker 1: can't do it, you know. So in the in this period,
[1:21:15] Speaker 1: I'm going to have lots of travel and work travel
[1:21:18] Speaker 1: where I like, I just come back from Queensland because
[1:21:20] Speaker 1: we had a conference. I couldn't train for two days
[1:21:22] Speaker 1: because I could, but I was at the hotel, so
[1:21:25] Speaker 1: I missed a couple of days. So I'm trying to
[1:21:27] Speaker 1: I'm trying to factor all those things into this processes
[1:21:30] Speaker 1: as well. I'm not doing a heavy duty six month program.
[1:21:33] Speaker 1: I'm doing a six month program with all the normal interjections,
[1:21:36] Speaker 1: a normal program, a normal program, a normal life for
[1:21:40] Speaker 1: me anyway, and then just see what my outcome is.
[1:21:43] Speaker 1: So I really appreciate your time, Joe, thanks so much, pleasure,
[1:21:46] Speaker 1: thank you, thank you,

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